Tuesday, May 5, 1998

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 May 5, 1998 11 3:02 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR CARL L. MARCELLINO, Acting President 19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 3 The Senate will come to order. All rise and 4 repeat the Pledge of Allegiance. 5 (The assemblage repeated the 6 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 7 We have with us Bishop Muriel 8 Grant of the Mount Olivet Discipleship in 9 Christ, from Brooklyn. 10 Bishop? 11 BISHOP MURIEL GRANT: Let us 12 pray. 13 May the infinite power of the 14 Almighty God be with us. O God, Who has given 15 unto us this land for our heritage, may we 16 prove to be a people mindful of Thy favor and 17 glad to do Thy will. We thank You, O God, 18 even for those others sent before us, our 19 pioneers who were so directed and guided by 20 You and were instrumental in the formation of 21 these United States. 22 Bless our land with industry 23 now, sound living, purity and good mannerism. 24 Save us, O God, from violence, discord, 25 confusion, pride and arrogance, and from any 1 evil way that will hinder our growth or 2 unity. We have now presented ourselves as a 3 multitude of people which have come hither 4 from diverse towns and cultures. Imbue with a 5 spirit of wisdom those to whom we have 6 entrusted the authority of government, that 7 there be justice and peace at home and that 8 through our obedience to Thy laws, we may 9 become a people worthy of sharing Thy praise 10 to other nations of the world. 11 Bless the President of these 12 United States. Fill our hearts with 13 thankfulness. Let not our trust fail in You, 14 but now, O gracious God, I humbly beseech Thee 15 not only for the people of these United States 16 in general but so especially for their Senate 17 here assembled, Republicans and Democrats, 18 bless their Senate ruler. Bless all Senators 19 here. Pour down an abundance of Your wisdom 20 and power upon their counseling session. Heal 21 their infirmities. Direct and prosper all 22 Senate consultations, giving them wisdom of 23 laws needed for effective leadership to the 24 advancement of Thy glory, the good of Thy 25 church, the safety, honor and welfare of Thy 1 people, that things ordered and settled by the 2 endeavors of these Senators will rest upon the 3 surest and best foundation of peace and 4 happiness and justice and piety so that it may 5 be established amongst us all now and 6 forever. 7 This I pray in the name of my 8 Savior, my Lord Jesus Christ. May by the 9 power of God vested in me the extension of the 10 blessings of God the Father, the Son and the 11 Holy Spirit rest and remain with you now and 12 forever. Amen. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 14 Bishop. 15 We have the reading of the 16 Journal. 17 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, May 18 -- Monday, May 4th. The Senate met pursuant 19 to adjournment. The Journal of Sunday, May 20 3rd, was read and approved. On motion, Senate 21 adjourned. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 23 Without objection, the Journal stands approved 24 as read. 25 We have presentation of 1 petitions. 2 Messages from the Assembly. 3 Messages from the Governor. 4 Reports of standing 5 committees. 6 Reports of select committees. 7 Motions and resolutions. 8 Senator Cook. 9 SENATOR COOK: Madam or Mr. 10 President 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 12 Excuse me? 13 SENATOR COOK: That's what it 14 says. 15 On page 32, I offer the 16 following amendments to Calendar 651, Senate 17 Print 6174-A and ask that the said bill retain 18 its place on the Third Reading Calendar. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 20 Amendments received and accepted and the bill 21 will retain its place on the Third Reading 22 Calendar. 23 We have a substitution. Can we 24 take that up now, please? Secretary will read. 25 THE SECRETARY: On page 5, 1 Senator Farley moves to discharge from the 2 Committee on Civil Service and Pension 3 Assembly Print 9167 and substitute it for the 4 identical Senate Bill 6116. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 6 Substitution is ordered. 7 Senator Johnson. 8 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. 9 President, may we please adopt the Resolution 10 Calendar with the exceptions of Resolutions 11 3292, 3325, 3326 and 3327? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 13 Senator, we'll do that if we can have some 14 order in the chamber, please. We have 15 conversations. Can we take them out of the 16 chamber so we get our work done, please. 17 All right. All in favor of 18 adopting the Resolution Calendar with the 19 exceptions of Resolution 3292, 3325, 3326 and 20 3327 signify by saying aye. 21 (Response of "Aye.") 22 Opposed nay. 23 (There was no response. ) 24 The Resolution Calendar is 25 adopted with the aforementioned exceptions. 1 Senator Johnson. 2 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. 3 President, I believe we have a privileged 4 resolution at the desk, and I ask that its 5 title be read in its entirety and move its 6 immediate adoption. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 8 Secretary will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 10 Bruno, Legislative Resolution commemorating 11 the 47th consecutive observance of the 12 National Day of Prayer in the state of New 13 York, Thursday, May 7th, 1998. 14 WHEREAS, it is the sense of 15 this legislative body to participate in events 16 of significance to the people of this state 17 and nation; 18 Attendant to such concern and 19 fully in accord with its long-standing 20 traditions, it is the intent of this 21 legislative body to commemorate the 47th 22 consecutive observance of National Day of 23 Prayer in the state of New York on Thursday, 24 May 7th, 1998; 25 This legislative body is proud 1 to have observed the National Day of Prayer in 2 Albany for so many years. This year's fitting 3 theme is "Turning Our Hearts to God;" 4 Prayer has always been an 5 important part of our nation's heritage. 6 National Day of Prayer is a tradition first 7 proclaimed by the Continental Congress in 1775 8 when John Hancock signed a Congressional order 9 establishing the first Day of Prayer; 10 In keeping with our founding 11 fathers' faith, civic prayers and national 12 days of prayer have a long and venerable 13 history in our constitutional republic. In 14 1983, in Marsh versus Chambers the Supreme 15 Court affirmed the right of state legislatures 16 to open their sessions with prayer. The 17 Supreme Court and the United States Congress 18 both begin each day with prayer; 19 The observance of a National 20 Day of Prayer became the law of the land in 21 1952 when a resolution was unanimously passed 22 by Congress and was signed by President Harry 23 Truman; 24 An amendment to this law was 25 signed by President Ronald Reagan in 1988 1 designating the first Thursday in May as the 2 annual Day of Prayer; 3 National Day of Prayer provides 4 an opportunity for Americans of all faiths to 5 join in united prayer to acknowledge our 6 dependence on God, to give thanks for 7 blessings received, to request healing for 8 wounds endured and to ask God to guide our 9 leaders and bring wholeness to the United 10 States and her citizens; 11 It is fitting and proper to 12 give thanks to God by observing the National 13 Day of Prayer in New York State on May 7, 1998 14 when all may acknowledge our blessings and 15 express gratitude for them while recognizing 16 the need for strengthening moral and religious 17 values in our state and nation; 18 NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED 19 that this legislative body pause in its 20 deliberations to commemorate the 47th 21 consecutive observance of National Day of 22 Prayer in the state of New York on Thursday, 23 May 7th, and to urge the citizens of New York 24 to observe this day in ways appropriate to its 25 importance and significance; and 1 BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a 2 copy of this resolution, suitably engrossed, 3 be transmitted to the Reverend Stephen Lalor, 4 Chairperson, National Day of Prayer, Albany 5 Area Task Force, Glenmont, New York. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 7 The motion is on the resolution. All in favor 8 signify by saying aye. 9 (Response of "Aye.") 10 Opposed nay. 11 (There was no response. ) 12 The resolution is passed. 13 Senator Bruno -- Senator Johnson. 14 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. 15 President, just don't call me Sheldon. 16 Would you please take up 17 Resolution Number 3225, by Senator Maziarz, 18 have it read in its entirety and move its 19 immediate adoption. 20 Thank you. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 22 Yes, Senator Johnson, we will do that, sir. 23 Secretary will read. 24 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 25 Maziarz, Legislative Resolution memorializing 1 the Honorable George E. Pataki, Governor, to 2 proclaim May 5th, 1998 as Senior Citizen Day 3 in New York State. 4 WHEREAS, the more than 3 5 million residents of New York State 60 years 6 of age and older are vital, integral and 7 contributing members of our society; 8 The more than 3 million senior 9 citizens residing in the state of New York 10 have contributed to the commonwealth of the 11 state by building and helping preserve the 12 customs, traditions and ideals of the many 13 ethnic groups that make up the mosaic of New 14 York State; 15 The wisdom and experience of 16 senior citizens constantly enrich the lives of 17 the young people of our state through a strong 18 tradition of volunteerism; 19 Since 1962, the month of May 20 has been declared by Presidential Proclamation 21 Older Americans Month in order for communities 22 around the nation to set time aside to 23 celebrate and reflect on the unique role older 24 Americans play in the fabric of our society; 25 The legislative and executive 1 branches of the New York State government have 2 as a primary goal the improvement of the 3 quality of life of older New Yorkers and the 4 assurance of their continued dignity; 5 NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED 6 that this legislative body pause in its 7 deliberations to memorialize the Honorable 8 George E. Pataki, Governor, to proclaim May 9 5th, 1998 as Senior Citizen Day in the state 10 of New York and, 11 BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that all 12 the residents of New York State are urged to 13 honor all citizens who are the cornerstone of 14 the strength of our nation and to whom a debt 15 of gratitude is owed; and 16 BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a 17 copy of this resolution, suitably engrossed, 18 be transmitted to the Honorable George E. 19 Pataki, Governor. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 21 The motion is on the resolution. All in favor 22 signify by saying aye. 23 (Response of "Aye.") 24 Opposed nay. 25 (There was no response. ) 1 Senator Maziarz, you wish to 2 explain your vote? 3 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you 4 very much, Mr. President. 5 On behalf of myself as chair of 6 the Senate Aging Committee and on behalf of 7 Senator Hugh Farley as the former chair of the 8 Senate Aging Committee who is aging as we 9 speak, it is with great pleasure and 10 admiration of the senior citizens of New York 11 that I stand before my colleagues and guests 12 today memorializing our Governor to proclaim 13 May 5th, 1998 as Senior Citizens Day in the 14 state of New York. 15 In my second year as chair of 16 the Senate Aging Committee, I have to say that 17 Senior Citizen Day has become a very important 18 day for me, and it's one I look forward to 19 with vigor. Through their sacrifices and 20 tireless volunteer efforts, seniors have made 21 New York State a better place to live and work 22 for all of us. Senior citizens have made 23 remarkable contributions to all facets of 24 society, including children, the disabled and 25 the frail elderly. 1 Today we attempt to give back a 2 small fraction of what their many years of 3 service, contribution and dedication have so 4 unselfishly given to their respective 5 communities. 6 I would urge all of my 7 colleagues to talk about this day, and I would 8 open this resolution and invite all members to 9 sign on as co-sponsors. I would take the 10 take the liberty, however, Mr. President, of 11 asking the secretary to sign Senator Farley on 12 as a co-sponsor as he doesn't want to stand up 13 on his own right. He's a little tired today. 14 Thank you, Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 16 We will accept all members on the resolution 17 unless you wish not to be. If you wish not to 18 be on the resolution, let the Chair know. 19 Otherwise, everyone will be placed on the 20 resolution. 21 The resolution is passed. 22 Senator Johnson, please. 23 SENATOR JOHNSON: Mr. 24 President, would you please have Resolution 25 3266, by Senator Holland, read in its entirety 1 and move its immediate adoption. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 3 Secretary will read. 4 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 5 Holland, Legislative Resolution, commending 6 Timothny P. Finn upon the occasion of his 7 designation as the recipient of the 1998 New 8 York State Senior Citizen of the Year Award. 9 WHEREAS senior citizens bring 10 their special wisdom, experience and 11 enthusiasm to countless endeavors helping to 12 shape and strengthen the character of the 13 communities of the state of New York and the 14 quality of our lives; 15 It is the sense of this 16 legislative body to recognize and honor the 17 senior citizens of New York State for their 18 diverse talents and generous service on behalf 19 of others; 20 In conjunction with the 21 celebration of Senior Citizen Day in New York 22 State on May 5th, 1998, this legislative body 23 takes great pleasure in honoring Timothy P. 24 Finn as the 1998 Senior Citizen of the Year; 25 The Senior Citizen of the Year 1 Award recognizes a senior citizen who has 2 tirelessly advocated on behalf of seniors and 3 has assisted in providing needed support 4 services and activities which enhance the 5 lives of senior citizens; 6 Timothy P. Finn, of Orangeburg, 7 New York, truly exemplifies these qualities; 8 As a member of the New York 9 City Police Department now retired, Timothy 10 Finn organized Shields, a fraternal 11 organization for law enforcement officers as 12 soon as he moved to Rockland County in 1966. 13 In addition to its work with disabled children 14 at the Rockland Psychiatric Children's 15 Hospital, Shields works diligently to inform 16 senior citizens about the various scams 17 perpetrated on the elderly and counsels 18 seniors on the protection of their property 19 and finances; 20 Timothy Finn is a tireless 21 advocate for the needs and protections of 22 senior citizens. Since his retirement from 23 the New York City Police Department, he has 24 dedicated his dynamic and industrious efforts 25 to lobbying actively and advising on 1 legislative matters affecting seniors on the 2 local, state and national levels; 3 As an active member of the 4 American Association of Retired Persons, AARP, 5 Timothy Finn has become a national 6 spokesperson on health and economic issues 7 affecting senior citizens, including health 8 care, social security, consumer protection, 9 retirement packages and tax and other policies 10 affecting pension recipients. He was also 11 instrumental in improving and publicizing the 12 EPIC prescription drug program for senior 13 citizens; 14 In addition to his service as 15 chairman of the AARP Committee on Pensions and 16 New York State's AARP Legislative chair and 17 national spokesperson, Timothy Finn is a New 18 York Veteran Police Association's 19 vice-president and legislative chairman; chair 20 of the Executive Committee of the Rockland 21 County Health Care Coalition and a member of 22 the Orangetown Senior Citizen Advisory 23 Committee, Rockland County Senior Advisory 24 Committee and the New York State Advisory 25 Committee on the Aged and the Senate 1 Commission to Restructure Services for the 2 Aging; 3 WHEREAS, through all these 4 endeavors, Timothy Finn has demonstrated 5 unflagging commitment to the improvement of 6 the quality of life of our state and nation's 7 senior citizens and the enhancement of human 8 dignity; 9 NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED 10 that this legislative body pause in its 11 deliberations to most joyously recognize the 12 significance of Timothy P. Finn's 13 contributions with its 1998 Senior Citizen of 14 the Year Award; and 15 BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a 16 copy of this resolution, suitably engrossed, 17 be transmitted to Timothy P. Finn. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 19 Question is on the resolution. All in favor 20 signify by saying aye. 21 (Response of "Aye.") 22 Opposed nay. 23 (There was no response. ) 24 Senator Holland to explain his 25 vote. Can we have some order in the chamber, 1 please. Please! 2 Senator Holland. 3 SENATOR HOLLAND: Mr. 4 President, I am extremely pleased to announce 5 that New York State's Senior Citizen of the 6 Year for 1998 is my Rockland County neighbor 7 Tim Finn. 8 Tim has some -- Tim Finn has 9 been active in Rockland County as a volunteer 10 since 1966 when he moved to Rockland and 11 founded the Shields which today is the 12 county's largest fraternal organization of law 13 enforcement officers. For many years Tim and 14 the Shields sponsored a Christmas party for 15 children at the Rockland County Psychiatric 16 Center. Upon his retirement as a decorated 17 New York City police officer, Tim decided to 18 put his numerous abilities to work on behalf 19 of retirees and senior citizens. 20 He served as a special 21 assistant to Senate Minority Leader Manny 22 Ohrenstein and joined the American Association 23 of Retired Persons where he rose to the 24 position of president and legislative 25 chairperson representing AARP's members before 1 state and national lawmakers. 2 Many of us here like to think 3 we shape public policy. However, it is the 4 people like Tim Finn who drive successful 5 grass root campaigns to make new laws, change 6 outdated ones and get rid of laws that are 7 burdensome or just plain ineffective. 8 His efforts over the years on 9 the local, state and national level have 10 included working for pension increases for 11 retirees he represented, helping protect 12 social security benefits from unnecessary 13 taxes, supporting more effective Medicaid 14 legislation and helping more of New York 15 State's seniors become eligible for the 16 state's low cost prescription drug program 17 known as EPIC. 18 In our roles as policymakers 19 and elected officials, we aim to make the 20 quality of life here one that will allow our 21 older residents to continue to make New York 22 their home long after retirement. With his 23 conscience and his commitments as his guide, 24 Tim has helped make New York a more 25 compassionate and comfortable home for our 1 seniors. 2 Tim has been recognized many 3 times before for his dedication to improving 4 the lives of our senior citizens, most 5 recently as Rockland County's Senior Citizen 6 of the Year. Today's award, which coincides 7 with the celebration of Senior Citizens Day is 8 the culmination of years of hard work and 9 numerous achievements on behalf of the state's 10 more than 2 million seniors, and I ask that 11 everyone in the room join with me here today 12 to welcome Peggy, his wife, Tim Jr., his son, 13 and Tim Finn, the Senior Citizen of the Year 14 for New York State. 15 Tim, would you please stand 16 up. 17 (Applause) 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 19 Mr. Finn, on behalf of the chamber, we welcome 20 you and congratulate you on your award and in 21 spite of Senator Holland's speech, it was 22 passed unanimously. 23 The Chair recognizes Senator 24 I believe it's Senator Bruno. 25 Senator Bruno. 1 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 2 can we at this time take up Calendar Number 3 670. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 5 Yes, Senator, the Secretary will read Calendar 6 Number 670. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 670, by member of the Assembly McEneny, 9 Assembly Print 9999-A, an act to amend the 10 Public Authorities Law, the Public Buildings 11 Law, Transportation Law, the Environmental 12 Conservation Law, in relation to the financing 13 and construction of certain facilities. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 15 Read the last section. 16 Senator Bruno. 17 SENATOR BRUNO: Yeah. Mr. 18 President, on the bill. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 20 Senator Bruno, on the bill. 21 SENATOR BRUNO: I would just 22 like to acknowledge that this bill before us 23 is the so-called "Albany Plan", and this is 24 the Albany Plan that we passed, I believe, 25 last year, some changes. The Assembly has 1 changed -- has passed it and with our passage 2 it will go on to the Governor and the 3 Governor, of course, has been very, very 4 supportive in initiating the activity here and 5 it will become law, and what it will mean for 6 the city of Albany which is the capital of New 7 York State, as we all know, is about $245 8 million worth of construction, hundreds of 9 jobs, maybe thousands of jobs in the 10 construction phase, and most important, state 11 employees have been working in conditions that 12 have been unsafe, unhealthy in many respects. 13 This will help correct that. 14 There are two buildings 15 involved. There are renovations to two other 16 buildings, the Alfred E. Smith Building and 17 the DEC building on Wolf Road. There will be 18 a 24- to 2600-slot parking garage, all part of 19 this plan, and we expect that the entire 20 Capital Region will benefit from the activity 21 that will take place during construction and 22 all of the employees that live in the Capital 23 Region and travel in from other parts of the 24 state, as well as visitors will have 25 facilities that are commensurate with the 1 Empire State. 2 Mayor Jennings is here from 3 Albany, who has been in the forefront of 4 helping make things happen in partners with 5 our great Governor, George Pataki. So I am 6 proud to speak on behalf of the implementation 7 and passage of the Albany Plan. 8 Thank you, Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 10 Read the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 9. 12 This act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 14 Senator, I'm sorry. 15 SENATOR FARLEY: I'll explain 16 my vote. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 18 O.K. Call the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the 20 roll. ) 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 22 Senator Farley, you want to explain your 23 vote? 24 SENATOR FARLEY: Just to 25 explain my vote. 1 I'm pleased to support this 2 piece of legislation as being part of the 3 Capital Region, as Senator Bruno is. We are 4 -- many of my constituents, and so forth, 5 have to come to Albany to work, and so forth, 6 but we are all one Capital Region, and I know 7 how committed the Governor is to Schenectady 8 and I know how committed this Legislature is 9 to helping the Schenectady area and, with that 10 in mind, I would like to support this 11 legislation and vote aye. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 13 Thank you, Senator. 14 Senator Breslin, to explain his 15 vote. 16 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you, 17 Mr. President. 18 I rise to commend Senator 19 Bruno, my Senate colleagues, the Assembly and 20 the Governor for coming together on such an 21 important piece of legislation for the city 22 and county of Albany, my district. 23 It will bring, as Senator Bruno 24 said, $240 million worth of construction but 25 much more important, better working conditions 1 and a more cohesive Capital District, and I 2 commend you, Senator Bruno. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 4 Thank you, Senator. 5 Announce the results, please. 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 8 The bill is passed. 9 Senator Johnson, should we 10 return to the Resolution Calendar. 11 SENATOR JOHNSON: Yes, Mr. 12 President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 14 The Secretary will read. 15 SENATOR JOHNSON: Please have 16 Resolution Number 3327, by Senator Saland, 17 read in its entirety and move its immediate 18 adoption. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 20 Thank you, Senator Johnson. Secretary will 21 read. 22 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 23 Saland, Legislative Resolution congratulating 24 Edmund Newhard upon the occasion of his 25 selection as the New York State 1998 1 Outstanding Contribution by a Senior Citizen 2 Award. 3 WHEREAS, in conjunction with 4 the celebration of May 5th, 1998 as Senior 5 Citizen Day in the state of New York, the 6 Senate Committee on Aging and the Assembly 7 Standing Committee for the Aging have 8 solicited and received numerous nominations 9 for the Outstanding Contribution by a Senior 10 Citizen Award from various counties of the 11 state; 12 This award honors a senior 13 citizen who has made a positive and beneficial 14 contribution to the senior citizens of his 15 community. After careful consideration the 16 representatives of both committees have chosen 17 a nominee they believe exemplifies the 18 qualities that benefit the noble appellation 19 and is, therefore, deserving of this honorable 20 recognition; 21 Edmund Newhard, of Hopewell 22 Junction, Dutchess County, New York, has over 23 the course of many years contributed to the 24 quality of life in his community for citizens 25 of all ages and truly merits recognition as 1 the recipient of the New York State's 1998 2 Outstanding Contribution by a Senior Citizen 3 Award; 4 Edmund Newhard served the 5 United States in World War II as a combat 6 aerial photographer. He was shot down in the 7 Pacific, parachuted out and landed behind 8 enemy lines. Local residents guided him to 9 safety and he promptly returned to active 10 duty. He has been on active duty for his 11 community ever since; 12 For 30 years, Edmund Newhard 13 has been a member of the East Fishkill town 14 planning board. He has spent countless 15 volunteer hours helping to guide the growth of 16 his community with his knowledge and 17 expertise; 18 Edmund Newhard is a landscape 19 architect who donated his services to 20 landscape the new East Fishkill Community 21 Center where community members congregate and 22 socialize. He has also arranged for East 23 Fishkill Rotary, of which he is past 24 president, to donate the beautiful trees that 25 line the outside of the Center. The Dutchess 1 County Office for the Aging Senior Nutrition 2 Site and the Dutchess County Association for 3 Senior Citizens Drop-in Center are located in 4 this important community facility; 5 Edmund Newhard also helped 6 organize the Rotary-sponsored Internet Club at 7 John Jay High School. He has been honored 8 with the 1997 Rotarian of the Year Award and 9 he was named Dutchess County Senior Citizen of 10 the Year for 1997 by the Dutchess County 11 Office for the Aging Advisory Council; 12 Edmund Newhard's widespread 13 good works are emblematic of the millions of 14 hours of volunteer work performed by many of 15 New York's more than 3 million senior 16 citizens, volunteer work that keeps the fabric 17 of American communities strong; 18 With commitment to the 19 treasured principles of social 20 responsibilities, ideals so clearly evident in 21 his daily efforts and actions, Edmund Newhard 22 has labored to preserve, to enhance and to 23 further the uniquely American tradition of 24 joining together for the common good; 25 WHEREAS, throughout his 1 involvement as an active and contributing 2 member of his community, Edmund Newhard has 3 combined tireless commitment with intelligence 4 and leadership to improve and beautify his 5 community; 6 NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED 7 that this legislative body pause in its 8 deliberations to most joyously congratulate 9 Edmund Newhard upon the occasion of his 10 selection as a recipient of the 1998 New York 11 State Outstanding Contribution by a Senior 12 Citizen Award; and 13 BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a 14 copy of this resolution, suitably engrossed, 15 be transmitted to Edmund Newhard. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 17 Question is on the resolution. All in favor 18 signify by saying aye. 19 (Response of "Aye.") 20 Opposed nay. 21 (There was no response. ) 22 Senator Saland, you wish to 23 explain your vote? 24 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr. 25 President. 1 Mr. President, it is a distinct 2 pleasure and privilege for me to arise on 3 behalf of Mr. Newhard's award today, his 4 recognition today. 5 Mr. Newhard, as you've heard at 6 length during the course of the reading of the 7 resolution, is a man who has served not merely 8 his country with great honor but he has served 9 his community time and again in many different 10 capacities with equally great honor. 11 It's interesting that, oh, some 12 of 150 years or so ago, Alexis deToqueville 13 talked at great length and wrote at great 14 length about the uniquely American 15 characteristic of volunteerism, something 16 which was not really present and probably to 17 this day is not as present as anywhere else 18 but in this nation, and Mr. -- and Mr. 19 Newhard, by his efforts, has time and again 20 shown his willingness, whether it's in 21 services of some 30 years as a member of the 22 East Fishkill planning board, of a service 23 which as I'm sure many of us in government are 24 aware, the service which is performed as a 25 volunteer, is not a salaried position; whether 1 it's commitment to service for the social 2 organizations, the service organizations, he 3 has been truly an outstanding member of his 4 community and I'm sure I speak for everybody 5 in this chamber when today I, on behalf of 6 this chamber and on behalf of all of those who 7 participated in the process that selected Mr. 8 Newhard, commend him for being chosen as New 9 York State -- New York State's Outstanding 10 Contribution by a Senior. 11 Congratulations. I wish 12 nothing but more good things for you, and East 13 Fishkill and Dutchess County is very fortunate 14 to have you within its midst. 15 Thank you very much. 16 I'd like to ask, with the 17 President's permission, that Mr. Newhard be 18 recognized. He's seated in front of the 19 chamber. He's been joined by John Beal who is 20 the director of the Office of the Aging in 21 Dutchess County and, with your courtesy, Mr. 22 President, I would welcome that you recognize 23 him. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 25 Senator Saland, we'll do that, glad to do 1 that. 2 Mr. Newhard, we welcome you and 3 salute you for your endeavors and your work 4 and be well. Godspeed! 5 (Applause). 6 Senator Maziarz, I have Senator 7 Farley's permission to recognize you. 8 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you. 9 Thank you very much, Mr. President. 10 I just, as chair of the Senate 11 Aging Committee, I want to recognize my 12 counterpart who assisted us greatly today in 13 recognizing these two outstanding New York 14 seniors, Assemblywoman Barbara Clark, chair of 15 the Assembly Aging Committee. 16 Assemblywoman Clark and I were 17 honored to have lunch this afternoon at the 18 Governor's Mansion with both of our 19 outstanding seniors and also several other 20 seniors who have been doing some great work 21 throughout the various counties in New York 22 State, and I want to join my colleagues, 23 Senator Holland, Senator Saland, in 24 particularly congratulating Tim Finn and Ed 25 Newhard for their contributions to the 1 Rockland County seniors and to the Dutchess 2 County seniors, and this brings to a close 3 their rather hectic day. 4 Mr. President, I said to both 5 of them early this morning that this would be 6 a day of picture taking, proclamations, pats 7 on the back and a whole lot of eating, and we 8 have done all three, Mr. President. 9 Thank you very much. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 11 And on behalf of Senator Saland, we would like 12 to open the resolution. Anyone -- we'll put 13 the entire chamber on the resolution honoring 14 the gentleman unless someone indicates 15 otherwise. 16 Senator Johnson, that completes 17 the Resolution Calendar. 18 SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you, 19 Mr. President. 20 At this time, may we please 21 have the reading of the non-controversial 22 calendar. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 24 Secretary will read the non-controversial 25 calendar. 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 111, by Senator Velella, Senate Print 5107, an 3 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in 4 relation to increasing the monetary value. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 6 Read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 8 This act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 10 Call the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the 12 roll. ) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 15 The bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 273, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2202, an 18 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 19 relation to reporting. 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it 21 aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 23 Lay the bill aside. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 319, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2210, an 1 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 2 cooperation between police agencies. 3 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it 4 aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 6 Lay the bill aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 338, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 9 4117, an act to amend the Navigation Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 11 Read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 13 This act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 15 Call the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the 17 roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 20 The bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 361, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 665, an 23 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, the 24 Family Court Act and the Penal Law. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 1 Read the last 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. 3 This act shall take effect immediately. 4 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 6 Lay the bill aside, please. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 448, by member of the Assembly Sanders, 9 Assembly Print 925, an act to amend the Labor 10 Law, in relation to restoring. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 12 Read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 14 This act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 16 Call the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the 18 roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 51. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 21 The bill is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 459, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2011, an 24 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 25 making citizenship document fraud. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 2 Read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 4 This act shall take effect on the first day of 5 November. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 7 Call the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the 9 roll. ) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 12 The bill is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 461, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2223, an 15 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 16 making unlawful immigration a Class C felony. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 19 Lay the bill aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 471, by member of the Assembly Hill, Assembly 22 Print 21-A, an act authorizing the county of 23 Nassau. 24 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Lay the 25 bill aside. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 2 Lay the bill aside, please. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 542, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1295, an 5 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 6 relation to creating the town of Southampton. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 8 You have a home rule message at the desk. 9 Read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 11 This act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 13 Call the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the 15 roll. ) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 52, nays 17 one, Senator Leichter recorded in the 18 negative. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 20 The bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 553, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 4408-A, an 23 act to amend the General Municipal Law, the 24 Public Housing Law and the State Finance Law. 25 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 2 Lay the bill aside, please. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 586, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 5209-A, 5 an act to amend the Tax Law and the 6 Administrative Code of the city of New York. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 8 Read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. 10 This act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 12 Call the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the 14 roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 53. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 17 The bill is passed. 18 Senator Johnson, that completes 19 the reading of the non-controversial 20 calendar. 21 SENATOR JOHNSON: Thank you, 22 Mr. President. 23 At this time, I'd ask that we 24 now return to the controversial calendar and 25 read that controversial calendar. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 2 Secretary will read the non-controversial 3 calendar, beginning with Calendar Number 273. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 273, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2202, an 6 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 7 relation to reporting information. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 9 Read the last section. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: 11 Explanation. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 13 Excuse me. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: 15 Explanation. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 17 Senator Padavan, an explanation has been 18 requested. 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes, Mr. 20 President. 21 This bill very simply prohibits 22 the establishment of any local law, rule or 23 regulation that would preclude the 24 notification of INS when an individual has (a) 25 broken a law and is to be in violation of 1 federal immigration laws. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 3 Read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 5 This act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 7 Call the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the 9 roll. ) 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 11 Announce the results, please. 12 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded 13 in the negative on Calendar Number 273 are 14 Senators Abate, Connor, Dollinger, Gentile, 15 Leichter, Markowitz, Mendez, Montgomery, 16 Paterson, Rosado, Smith and Stavisky. Ayes 17 42, nays 12. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 19 The bill is passed. 20 Secretary will read. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 319, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2210, an 23 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 24 cooperation between police agencies. 25 SENATOR PATERSON: Explanation. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 2 Senator Padavan, an explanation has been 3 requested. 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes, Mr. 5 President. 6 This bill requires that there 7 be cooperation between police agencies and the 8 United States Immigration and Naturalization 9 Service for any person who is arrested under 10 state law and who is reasonably suspected of 11 being an illegal alien. 12 Yes? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 14 Senator Padavan, you have a question? 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator 16 Paterson has the question. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 18 I'm sorry. Senator Paterson. 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Hopefully 20 I'll have the answer. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator 22 Padavan, in the July 19th decision of a 23 federal court in Manhattan, of 1997, last 24 year, your first piece of legislation which is 25 Calendar Number 273 would basically be 1 sustained by that decision. Mayor Giuliani 2 has appealed it, and I hope that his appeal is 3 successful, but certainly your desire to make 4 that state law is quite understandable. 5 However, in the same decision 6 there is dicta in that case that says while 7 the -- while the municipality cannot compel 8 the agencies not to report illegal aliens, it 9 also makes just as clear that we cannot compel 10 the agencies to report this information; so 11 while your first piece of legislation is quite 12 on point and we're hoping that it's reversed 13 on appeal, I'd like to ask you how you 14 synthesize that with the bill that's before us 15 right now. 16 SENATOR PADAVAN: First, your 17 statement is dicta and not the core of that 18 decision. I justify this bill on a very 19 simple basis, and it need not relate to 20 anybody's knowledge of the law. It's just 21 common sense. 22 If someone's arrested and you 23 find in his possession forged documents, and 24 we know this happens because we read about it, 25 wholesale sale of forged drivers' licenses as 1 an example. If someone is in possession of 2 such forged documents and the local law 3 enforcement agency reasonably presumes that 4 that person is an illegal immigrant that they 5 contact INS. 6 We cooperate with federal 7 agencies all the time, the F.B.I., other 8 federal agencies involved in one area of law 9 enforcement or the other, the Treasury 10 Department and so on. It is seemingly logical 11 that in a situation where someone's been 12 arrested, and I emphasize that point, the 13 arrest is inexorably tied together with the 14 contact of INS. 15 The decision you referred to 16 dealt with Executive Order 124 and, as you 17 properly pointed out, and we obviously have 18 been dealing with this legislation over a 19 number of years in an attempt to overrule 20 124. Now, presumably the federal courts will 21 do it for us, but that case did not deal with 22 this particular issue. 23 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 24 Mr. President. 25 If Senator Padavan would 1 continue to yield. 2 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 4 Senator Padavan, do you continue to yield? 5 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 7 He yields, Senator. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Well, 9 Senator, they don't type in the court 10 decisions with a different color for dicta as 11 opposed to what's substantive, and I would 12 suggest that that's really your assumption 13 that that is dicta and not actually part of 14 the mandate of the court decision, but my 15 question to you is that, when looking at the 16 scenario that you described where the police 17 make an arrest and there are forged documents, 18 what is the intervening cause that takes this 19 from a situation where a person is concealing 20 their identity or engaging in some kind of 21 forgery or something even more unlawful, what 22 makes the arresting entity know that this is 23 related to immigration? 24 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well, if you 25 have read the bill, there are some stipulated 1 conditions or attempts. First you find out if 2 he is a citizen, someone who is here as a 3 permanent resident, an alien lawfully 4 admitted, an alien lawfully admitted for a 5 temporary period of time which may have been 6 over-stayed, a person who is otherwise 7 authorized under federal law to be present, an 8 alien who is present in the United States in 9 violation of federal immigration laws. 10 The verification process may 11 include but shall not be limited to 12 questioning the person regarding his place and 13 date of birth and entry into the United States 14 and requesting to see documentation indicating 15 his legal status, and so on and so on. It's 16 all specified in the bill. 17 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 18 Mr. President. Thank you, Senator Padavan. 19 Mr. President, on the bill. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 21 Senator Paterson, on the bill. 22 SENATOR PATERSON: I still, in 23 spite of the conditions that are laid out in 24 Senator Padavan's bill, see a great leap of 25 faith that becomes the catalyst for 1 determining whether or not an individual may 2 be an illegal alien. Unfortunately, there are 3 many Americans, and it's unfortunate for this 4 bill; it's rather fortunate for this country, 5 who are of diverse backgrounds and would 6 display different characteristics that, unfor 7 tunately to some would still cause individuals 8 to err in the direction of making the 9 assumption that these individuals are not 10 citizens, that they are not Americans, that 11 they are not people who are in many cases born 12 and bred right here in this country. 13 It's that leap of faith that we 14 are concerned about as we vote against this 15 piece of legislation. Senator Padavan wants 16 to compel agencies to go forward in these 17 situations, which is really in contradiction 18 to a court decision that actually affirms his 19 point of view about municipalities issuing 20 executive orders mandating that there not be 21 this type of investigation, but the fact 22 remains that this part of the court decision, 23 in spite of the fact that Senator Padavan 24 isn't in agreement with it and doesn't think 25 it's relevant, still was written and it was 1 written for the purpose of trying to clear 2 this area up, and what it really connotes is 3 the fact that while we don't want to restrict 4 any reporting of this type of situation, this 5 scenario where we may be actually -- where we 6 may actually have the responsibility, we don't 7 want to compel the agency -- we don't want the 8 agency to start engaging in such a speculative 9 and subjective test for what constitutes 10 citizenship that we are causing people, most 11 of whom may be citizens, an unreasonable 12 harassment by constantly causing them to 13 reaffirm the citizenship to the country in 14 which they were born and grew up. 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. 16 President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 18 Senator Padavan. 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: First, I 20 would say to Senator Paterson that faith moves 21 mountains. In this case, it isn't moving you 22 but we're going to try again. 23 What Senator Paterson fails to 24 note in referring to that court decision, this 25 bill deals with someone who is arrested, 1 Senator, someone who is arrested. The court 2 decision that you refer to in the federal 3 court, by the way, does not relate to this 4 situation directly. There is conversation 5 that may imply to some degree but it does not 6 address the issue of someone who is arrested. 7 Now, we had a very terrible 8 situation a couple years ago of a young man 9 who was arrested for selling drugs. The 10 police department did not notify the court nor 11 the district attorney that this person was 12 presumed to be an illegal alien. The court 13 allowed that individual out on very low bail. 14 Two weeks later he shot and killed a police 15 officer. 16 Now, if this had been law at 17 that time, INS would have been notified as 18 would everyone else, that individual certainly 19 would not have been out on bail and that 20 police officer would be alive today. 21 Now, we are dealing with, I 22 think, a very specific area here. Senator 23 Paterson broadens it. We have over half a 24 million illegal aliens in the metropolitan New 25 York City area as reported by INS. Therefore, 1 we're not dealing with an isolated very remote 2 potential situation. We're dealing with a 3 very real one, of one of those illegal aliens 4 being arrested for committing a crime, and if 5 you look at the 8,000 immigrants we have in 6 our state prisons, over half of them are 7 illegal aliens and most of them are arrested 8 for selling drugs; so again it is not a 9 hypothetical or rather vague presumption that 10 this situation exists, continues to exist, and 11 we ought to have the benefit of the statute to 12 enable us to deal with the problem. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 14 Senator Paterson, why do you rise? 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 16 President, because I know Senator Padavan 17 would want me to rise. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 19 Oh, I don't think so. Can we take that to a 20 vote? 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 22 President, the arrest of an individual in our 23 society, in spite of a serious offense, still 24 connotes a presumption of innocence until 25 proven guilty. At the point that an 1 individual is arrested, we as a society 2 support that many rights and many privileges 3 are taken away from this person because they 4 are deemed to have an imminent or may be 5 presenting an imminent danger to other members 6 of society, but the fact that an individual is 7 arrested, is not necessarily an invitation to 8 now go into an examination of all of their 9 documents to determine whether or not they 10 have paid the Internal Revenue Service in the 11 last year, whether or not they are up to date 12 with all of their bills. 13 It really doesn't give us an 14 opportunity to examine necessarily their 15 citizenship rights just because the arresting 16 officer may get an inkling of a feeling that 17 this person is not a citizen, and so I think 18 that the court decision does have merit here 19 because the distinction that Senator Padavan 20 is drawing on its face sounds very forceful 21 because it -- it is responding to a situation 22 where the individual's arrested, but we have 23 people who are arrested for vehicular 24 violations. We have people now getting 25 arrested for jaywalking. We have people 1 getting arrested for a number of violations 2 and misdemeanors that don't come close to the 3 kinds of problems they would have or at least 4 the threat to their faith in our society if we 5 extend it to going through an entire perusal 6 of their citizenship rights. 7 So I would just continue to 8 maintain that this legislation be defeated on 9 the grounds that it really causes too many 10 Americans, people who Senator Padavan is not 11 necessarily looking for, to be placed in the 12 position where innuendo and suspicion and 13 often bias and all kinds of situations that 14 those individuals are all too familiar with 15 are repeated in a -- in what is really a hunt 16 for illegal aliens at the expense of too many 17 citizens. 18 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. 19 President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 21 Senator Waldon. 22 SENATOR WALDON: Were you about 23 to ask for a vote? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 25 Yes, I was, Senator. 1 SENATOR WALDON: On the bill. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 3 Was going to ask that the last section be 4 read. 5 Senator Leichter, you rise 6 also. Senator Waldon was going to explain his 7 vote. Would you like to do that as well? 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: No, I want to 9 be heard on the bill. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 11 Senator Leichter, if you didn't mind. 12 SENATOR LEICHTER: If Senator 13 Padavan would yield, please. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 15 Senator Padavan, you yield to Senator 16 Leichter. 17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: He 19 yields, Senator. 20 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, 21 there are certain provisions of the bill that 22 give me some pause for thought. One is where 23 you authorize the police official to engage in 24 what you call a verification process and to 25 request to see certain documentation as well 1 as asking questions regarding place and date 2 of birth and entry into the United States. 3 My question is, when those 4 questions are totally unrelated to the reason 5 for the arrest, have you looked into whether 6 that's constitutional, both under the U.S. 7 Constitution and the New York State 8 Constitution? 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes, it is. 10 Senator, I've never been arrested. I presume 11 you haven't either, but normally when someone 12 is arrested, these are standard questions, 13 name, birth, address. I mean these are things 14 that are normally asked aside from this 15 legislation, place of birth, who are you, you 16 know, that -- and frequently that information 17 is put through a computerized system on a 18 national basis if there's a federal warrant or 19 something out on that individual. This 20 happens every day. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Through you, 22 Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 24 Senator, do you continue to yield? 25 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, the 1 information 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 3 He does. 4 SENATOR LEICHTER: -- that you 5 seek and authorize under this bill is not 6 standard information. You add entry into the 7 United States. That is not commonly asked or 8 asked at all of people who have been 9 arrested. You can certainly ask, Who are you, 10 where do you live? You may ask date of birth. 11 You can ask questions that are related to the 12 alleged crime, but you can't, at least as far 13 as I know, at least you don't ask when were 14 you admitted in the United States and I 15 request to see documentation indicating legal 16 status. Those are really the two things that 17 I'm referring to and that I question. 18 I'm not sure of the answer, but 19 I have some doubts as to whether or not that's 20 legal or within the province of a New York law 21 enforcement official because, as you and I 22 well know, the enforcement of the Immigration 23 Law is reserved by the U. S. Constitution to 24 the federal government. 25 SENATOR PADAVAN: If someone, 1 when asked name, address, date of birth, place 2 of birth says, I was born in Colombia, you 3 say, Well, are you in this country legally? 4 Tell us how. That's not unconstitutional. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: I -- I don't 6 know, Senator. I -- I don't know, Senator. I 7 wish I could just say, Well, Senator Padavan 8 says it's constitutional, it must be 9 constitutional. I think it really raises a 10 question, and I think it would be one thing if 11 your bill provided that where there was 12 information that the person was not legally in 13 the United States that that information be 14 transmitted to the Immigration Service, but 15 that's not what you do. You go beyond that 16 and you empower New York State law enforcement 17 officials to -- in effect, you deputize them 18 as part of the Immigration Service to make 19 inquiries and to ask questions which certainly 20 are presently not being asked. I -- I think 21 that's a problem. 22 Let me ask you this other 23 question if you would be good enough to 24 yield. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 1 Senator Padavan, you continue to yield? 2 Senator continues to yield, Senator. 3 SENATOR LEICHTER: As I 4 understand it, the the law enforcement 5 official is to notify the Attorney General and 6 the U.S. Immigration Service, is that correct? 7 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Then, in 9 addition, the Attorney General is also 10 supposed to notify the U.S. Immigration 11 Service, is that correct? 12 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: Why -- why, 14 since the law enforcement official is advising 15 the Immigration Service, do you also have the 16 Attorney General pass on that information? 17 SENATOR PADAVAN: I say, 18 Senator, on the presumption that the Attorney 19 General might have additional information that 20 would be pertinent. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, again 22 with all due respect, sir, and 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 24 Senator Padavan, do you continue to yield? 25 The Senator continues to yields, Senator. 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: The Attorney 2 General is responsible for maintaining 3 complete and accurate records of such reports 4 and shall provide any additional information 5 that may be requested. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: But not line 7 21, 22 says that the Attorney General shall 8 that report that was submitted by the law 9 enforcement official to the Attorney General, 10 that report shall be transmitted to the United 11 States Immigration and Naturalization 12 Service. 13 SENATOR PADAVAN: Correct, but 14 it's their -- it's their prerogative. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: Let me ask 16 you 17 SENATOR PADAVAN: It's all part 18 of paragraph four, Senator. You want to take 19 one sentence away from the other, I think 20 that's inappropriate. 21 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: The entire 23 paragraph should be read together. 24 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, 25 that's what we always do. I mean if you have 1 one sentence that says that the report shall 2 be transmitted, you can't well qualify by 3 another sentence. I don't think it's of great 4 moment, but I think it -- it does lead to a 5 duplication. 6 What worries me most of all, 7 Senator, is paragraph 3, lines -- I'm sorry, 8 it's paragraph or subdivision (c). It's lines 9 13 and 14 which empowers the law enforcement 10 official not only to notify the United States 11 Immigration and Naturalization Service as well 12 as the Attorney General, but then you add some 13 language that I think could be very 14 meritricious which says, "*** and provide any 15 additional information that may be requested 16 by any other public entity," without in any 17 respect qualifying it to the matter of 18 immigration status. You seem to authorize any 19 public agency to ask information of that law 20 enforcement official or that law enforcement 21 official be free to provide any information to 22 any other public agency, totally unrelated to 23 immigration. 24 SENATOR PADAVAN: Give me an 25 example of a public agency that might seek 1 information that would be undesirable. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Well, I 3 could -- yeah, I could see that 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: How about 5 Social Services, would that be undesirable? 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: It might 7 well be, absolutely. 8 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'd say if 9 that person is an illegal immigrant, it would 10 be very desirable. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: But, 12 Senator, there hasn't been a determination 13 made that that person is an illegal 14 immigrant. That can only be made by the 15 Immigration Service. Why would you 16 authorize 17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, may 18 I interrupt you? 19 SENATOR LEICHTER: Sure. 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: And I'd like 21 to read something to you that's federal law 22 which may answer some of your questions. 23 It's Section 132 involving 24 interior enforcement relevant to immigration 25 laws. "The Attorney General may enter into a 1 written agreement with any state or any 2 political subdivision of a state pursuant to 3 which an officer or employee of the state or 4 subdivision who is determined by the Attorney 5 General to be qualified to perform a function 6 of immigration officer in relation to the 7 investigation, apprehension or detention of 8 aliens in the United States, including the 9 transportation of such aliens across state 10 lines into detention centers, may carry out 11 such function at the expense of the state or 12 the political subdivision and to the extent 13 consistent with state and local law." 14 What you have here is a very 15 firm federal statute authorizing. You said as 16 agent, I think your phrase was we'd become an 17 agent of the INS. Well, if you want to use 18 that term, you certainly have that 19 prerogative, but this federal law provides for 20 it, provides for direct cooperation between 21 the federal authorities and the state and/or 22 its local subdivisions in regard to illegal 23 aliens. 24 Now, it says here, "Further an 25 agreement under this subsection shall require 1 that an officer or employee of a state or 2 political subdivision of a state performing a 3 function shall have knowledge of and adhere to 4 federal law." It goes on and on, pages here, 5 but it's very, very clear that we are 6 authorized by federal law to implement the 7 legislation that you find troubling. 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Senator, I 9 can't believe, with all due respect, that you 10 would read that because that is such a strong 11 argument against this bill, and I would expect 12 Senator Paterson to read that section. That 13 section provides that the federal authorities 14 are authorized, subject to the procedures and 15 the approval of the Attorney General, to enter 16 into agreement with state officials. 17 No question that the federal 18 government can go to the New York City Police 19 Department and having assured itself that the 20 New York City Police Department is familiar 21 with federal rules, familiar with immigration 22 to, in limited areas, enact a cooperation 23 agreement, but that's not what your bill does 24 at all. 25 SENATOR PADAVAN: That's not 1 true, Senator. You either didn't hear me or I 2 didn't make myself clear. The State Police 3 Department, by the way, cooperates fully as do 4 many other subdivisions of this state. Where 5 we have the problem primarily is within the 6 city of New York. This bill will, in effect, 7 push us in the direction that the federal law 8 provides for. 9 Your earlier question, Senator, 10 was is this constitutional. Well, my evidence 11 is that we have federal law which has not been 12 ruled unconstitutional. 13 SENATOR LEICHTER: No, no. 14 Senator, my point was that the federal 15 government, having preempted and through the 16 Constitution being authorized to engage in and 17 to enforce the immigration laws, that a state 18 cannot say we're going to start enforcing the 19 immigration laws absent the very thing that 20 you mention, which is where the federal 21 government enters into an agreement and 22 authorizes the state to do this. 23 Let me ask you, has the federal 24 government -- has the federal government 25 authorized the state of New York and the law 1 enforcement agencies in the state of New York 2 to do the acts that your bill authorizes them 3 to do? 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 5 SENATOR LEICHTER: It has? 6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Absolutely, 7 and what we're saying here is 8 SENATOR LEICHTER: Where is 9 that agreement? 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 12 Excuse me, gentlemen. The Chair has been 13 willing to let the debate to go on to 14 enhance 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: My question 16 is, where is that agreement? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 18 Senator, can the questions and answers come 19 through the Chair, please, so we can keep this 20 in order. 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. In 22 response to Senator Leichter's question 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: You're 24 right, Mr. President. 25 SENATOR PADAVAN: In response 1 to Senator Leichter's question, the fact 2 remains that our State Police and many other 3 jurisdictions in this state do exactly that. 4 What we're trying to do, very 5 simply, is to motivate by re-emphasizing what 6 is already permitted, the cooperation that I 7 think serves everyone's best interests in this 8 state, and that's what this bill is all 9 about. 10 SENATOR LEICHTER: Okay. 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: I merely 12 quoted the state law -- the federal law so 13 that I would put your mind at rest when you 14 raised the question earlier, is it 15 constitutional for a state or its subdivision 16 to be in effect -- and I think this was your 17 phrase -- an agent of INS, and I hope I've put 18 that to rest. Maybe I've not convinced you of 19 the wisdom of this bill but that part of it to 20 me is very important and your question was 21 obviously asked sincerely and I'm giving you a 22 proper response. 23 SENATOR LEICHTER: Good. Mr. 24 President, I want to thank Senator Padavan, 25 but I must say that whenever we get into one 1 of these debates and I hear the sponsor say, 2 Well, what we're trying to do -- you know, and 3 that's not the issue. The issue very often is 4 what your language says. 5 Senator, there's no question 6 that the federal government can under the law 7 or the regulation you just read authorize 8 agencies in New York State to help the 9 Immigration Service, but when I asked you, 10 where is the agreement they would authorize 11 every law enforcement agency in New York State 12 to do the acts that your bill does, you talk 13 about, Well, we have an agreement with the 14 State Police. First of all, without having 15 seen it but I would bet my last dollar, the 16 agreement between the State Police, the 17 Immigration Service, does not provide the 18 powers and the authority, that broad sweep 19 which your bill provides for. 20 Secondly, it certainly doesn't 21 cover the Hempstead Police Department. It 22 doesn't cover the Watertown Police 23 Department. There's no agreement between 24 them. So the fact of the matter is that I 25 think the question and the issue that I 1 raised, can the state of New York on its own 2 decide that it's going to empower agencies 3 that have not entered into an agreement with 4 the Immigration Service to enforce the 5 immigration laws, can we do that, is that 6 are we authorized to do that? I have a 7 serious question. 8 I think certainly where we know 9 that a crime has been committed or we know 10 that somebody is here illegally, I think that 11 you're certainly authorized to pass that 12 information on to the Immigration Service, but 13 you don't do that. You go much further. You 14 empower New York State law enforcement 15 officials to pry into people's immigration 16 status and that, to my mind -- and I'm not 17 sure of the answer, I must tell you, but that 18 raises a constitutional question. 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. 20 President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 22 Senator Padavan. 23 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator 24 Leichter asked the question, is there a 25 written agreement. What I said to him is, in 1 effect, whether it's written or not, the State 2 Police and other law enforcement agencies in 3 this state are cooperating on a regular basis 4 with INS. 5 Now, beyond that point, I think 6 it's important for him to understand -- and I 7 will read the section of federal law that is 8 pertinent, "Nothing in this subsection shall 9 be construed to require an agreement under 10 this subsection in order for any officer or 11 employee of a state or political subdivision 12 of a state (a), to communicate with the 13 Attorney General regarding the immigration 14 status of any individual, including reporting 15 knowledge that a particular alien is not 16 lawfully present in the United States (b), 17 otherwise to cooperate with the Attorney 18 General in the identification, apprehension, 19 detention or removal of aliens not lawfully 20 present in the United States." 21 Now, what that says, very 22 directly -- it doesn't require any 23 interpretation -- is absent a written 24 agreement, the things that we are attempting 25 to motivate in this bill are permitted and not 1 only permitted but encouraged by federal law. 2 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 3 President, continuing my comments on the bill. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 5 Senator Leichter, on the bill. 6 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah. 7 Senator Paterson, those two sections you read 8 -- I'm sorry. Senator Padavan. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 10 Seems to be a common error today. 11 SENATOR LEICHTER: I always 12 take my cue from you, Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 14 Thank you, Senator. 15 SENATOR LEICHTER: But, Senator 16 Padavan, what you just read is (a), the first 17 provision was exactly what I said, that any 18 law enforcement official, for that matter, any 19 citizen knowing that somebody is here 20 illegally is authorized to so inform the 21 Immigration Service. You and I have that 22 authority. We don't need any statute to give 23 us that power and (b), it just says to 24 cooperate with the Immigration Service. 25 That's fine. Everybody has that right and 1 that authority, but what I'm concerned about 2 is your having officials of the state of New 3 York ask questions that right now they cannot 4 ask and maybe that even with this bill they 5 can't ask or shouldn't ask. 6 I am also concerned, as I 7 pointed out, Senator Paterson, a provision 8 that I just don't think makes any sense where 9 he says that law enforcement officials may 10 provide any additional information that may be 11 requested by any other public entity, 12 information that's totally unrelated to 13 immigration, information that maybe now police 14 departments cannot or should not pass on, 15 whether it's to a social service agency, the 16 Health Department. Why put that provision in 17 there? It's totally unnecessary or at the 18 very least -- at the very least, you ought to 19 say provide information relating to the 20 immigration status of the individual to any 21 agency that properly needs that information, 22 but the way you have it now, it's an 23 open-ended blank check to law enforcement 24 officials to pass on all sorts of information 25 to other agencies. 1 Let me deal with the substance 2 of the bill, and I think -- Senator Padavan, I 3 think put it very well. There's no question 4 that we have a problem in this state and in 5 this country of a large number of illegal 6 immigrants. That is a matter that really 7 needs to be dealt with much more effectively 8 by the federal government and we understand 9 the problems considering the large boundary 10 shorelines that this nation -- nation has, 11 but there's certainly things that can be 12 done. 13 I think it's a question that we 14 have to ask ourselves, is -- should it be the 15 policy of the state of New York to actively 16 engage in the enforcement of the Immigration 17 Law, forgetting for a moment whether we have 18 the authority, assuming even that we have the 19 authority, is that something that we want our 20 law enforcement officials to do and one of the 21 consequences of giving them that authority, 22 that power considering not only all the other 23 responsibilities that they have but the 24 likelihood that this is going to intrude upon 25 people's privacy in a manner that hasn't been 1 done to date, do you want to do that? I don't 2 think that you do. 3 I think that there are ways of 4 dealing with illegal immigration through the 5 federal government that we should support. 6 Maybe we should ask the federal government to 7 do more, but I don't think, one, the state of 8 New York should take on the enforcement of the 9 immigration laws, and secondly, I don't think 10 that we ought to get police officials in this 11 state to ask the sort of questions, to make 12 the sort of inquiries, to pass on the sort of 13 information that your bill provides. 14 I think that you're stepping 15 into an area where we shouldn't be. I think 16 we will be infringing on people's privacy. I 17 think we will be opening up a lot of problems 18 in relationships between police and people who 19 may have come from other countries or their 20 ance... or their ancestors have come from 21 other countries. I can see a great deal of 22 problems. As Senator Paterson said, biases 23 and prejudices are going to be shown. I just 24 don't think that we want to put that burden 25 and create that problem for our law 1 enforcement officials. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 3 Senator Waldon, please. 4 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 5 gentleman yield to a question? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 7 Senator Padavan, do you yield? 8 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 10 He yields, Senator. 11 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, do 12 you recall when we discussed the Police and 13 Public Protection Act here in this chamber, 14 this session, the part of that act which 15 allows police officers to stop people abroad 16 for merely a whim, not necessarily any act of 17 criminality which would provoke them to stop 18 the person? 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: No, I don't 20 recall it, Senator. 21 SENATOR WALDON: Okay. On the 22 bill, Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 24 Senator Waldon, on the bill. 25 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you, Mr. 1 President. Thank you, Senator Padavan. 2 I recall that, and when I place 3 that in conjunction with what you've proposed 4 here today, it is ominous the potential impact 5 upon society but especially upon people of 6 color and people who are recently from foreign 7 lands; for example, the Caribbean, South 8 America, Africa, Asia. Those are the people 9 who will be stopped indiscriminately by 10 police, coupled with the rights and what 11 you're proposing today and if that other 12 proposal were law in the state, those in 13 conjunction create a pincer move on the rights 14 of people, a vice which would trap these 15 people in terms of the impact of the law. 16 I think this is un-American. I 17 think this is not what our society is all 18 about, nor should it be about, and so I 19 caution my colleagues to recognize that this 20 is very thin ice that we're skating upon, and 21 that if we're really concerned about the 22 rights of some of the people who happen to be 23 from foreign lands recently or who do not look 24 like most of us in this chamber, we cannot 25 abide this proposal, and I would encourage you 1 to vote in the negative. 2 Thank you, Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 4 Senator Dollinger. 5 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Will 6 Senator Padavan yield for couple of questions? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 8 Senator, do you yield to a couple of 9 questions? 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 12 He yields, Senator Dollinger. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The 14 Attorney General that's referenced in the 15 bill, is that the Attorney General of the 16 state of New York? 17 SENATOR PADAVAN: U.S. Attorney 18 General. 19 SENATOR DOLLINGER: This 20 amendment will go in the exec... 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, I'm 22 sorry. Did you say -- what? I may have said 23 it wrong in not hearing your question right. 24 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. In 25 the bill it says that this -- in addition 1 to the other obligations of the police 2 agencies 3 SENATOR PADAVAN: The bill 4 refers to the New York State Attorney 5 General. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. What 7 jurisdiction to enforce the immigration laws 8 does the Attorney General of the state of New 9 York have? 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: We've used 11 this word "enforcement" here rather liberally 12 but we're not reading the bill. Enforcement 13 of immigration laws rest with INS. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Right. 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: We're talking 16 about cooperation, providing information, 17 referral. That's what we're talking about. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. But 19 my 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: The Attorney 21 General might have in his possession 22 information that may be useful. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. The 24 information will go -- both go to the INS and 25 to the New York State Attorney General so 1 they'll both have a list, is that correct? 2 SENATOR PADAVAN: Local law 3 enforcement would give that information, yes. 4 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So we'll 5 have one list for the 6 SENATOR PADAVAN: But the 7 Attorney General may have additional 8 information that came from another political 9 subdivision. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: But there 11 will be a list maintained by the Attorney 12 General of the state of New York, again, Mr. 13 President, if Senator Padavan 14 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'm not sure 15 what you mean by "list" but information that 16 would be appropriate would be in his 17 possession. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well -- but 19 you will require him to maintain this 20 information. It says here that he shall 21 maintain accurate and complete records 22 regarding who's on the list, correct? 23 SENATOR PADAVAN: Records of 24 any referrals made by local jurisdictions. 25 SENATOR DOLLINGER: And the INS 1 will maintain the same list. 2 SENATOR PADAVAN: Pardon me? 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: The INS 4 will maintain the same list. 5 SENATOR PADAVAN: Maintain the 6 same list? 7 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Well, again 8 through you, Mr. President. The bill requires 9 that the local authorities tell both the 10 Attorney General of the state of New York and 11 the INS. 12 SENATOR PADAVAN: That's 13 correct. 14 SENATOR DOLLINGER: So 15 presumably there will be a list with the New 16 York State Attorney General. 17 SENATOR PADAVAN: The 18 information will be in both places, if that's 19 what you're asking. 20 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Right. So 21 we're going to duplicate the efforts of both 22 agencies. We're doing exactly the same 23 thing. 24 SENATOR PADAVAN: You realize 25 there are different INS districts throughout 1 the state. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: I 3 understand, but I 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: So the 5 information that would be in the possession of 6 our state Attorney General would be made 7 available to any one of them. An illegal 8 immigrant might be in New York City one day, 9 might be in Oswego a week later. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Right, but 11 there will be two lists. 12 SENATOR PADAVAN: The 13 information would presumably be available in 14 both places if it was forwarded -- if it was 15 forwarded. 16 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. 17 Again through you, Mr. President, if Senator 18 Padavan will continue to yield. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: I 20 believe the Senator continues to yield. 21 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you. 22 This requires that suspected 23 aliens be put on the list, is that correct? 24 SENATOR PADAVAN: You know, 25 Senator, I'm troubled somewhat by your 1 reference to being put on a list. Keep in 2 mind this is someone who was arrested, not 3 just a suspected alien, illegal alien, someone 4 who was arrested, and as an indication by 5 virtue of that process of arrest that the 6 person is an illegal alien, and what we are 7 calling for is cooperation between the local 8 jurisdiction, whether it be the State Police, 9 the police in the city of New York, or the 10 police in Oswego, New York, to provide that 11 information to the Attorney General and to 12 INS. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay, but 14 again through you, Mr. President, if Senator 15 Padavan will yield. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 17 Senator Padavan -- excuse me, Senator. 18 Senator Padavan, do you 19 continue to yield? 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 22 He yields. 23 SENATOR DOLLINGER: This bill 24 says that they shall notify the Attorney 25 General and the United States Immigration 1 Service of such persons suspected of illegal 2 immigration status. That's what you would do, 3 is have the police agency 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: Someone's 5 been arrested. 6 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Right, but 7 the suspected status is turned over to the 8 INS. 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: Correct. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: My question 11 to you is what happens if it turns out that 12 suspected alien is actually a legal resident 13 but his name has already been transmitted to 14 the Attorney General as -- and to INS as a 15 suspected alien? There's nothing in this bill 16 that would allow, for example, if this person 17 is determined not to be an illegal alien, then 18 the police entity shall transmit information 19 to the Attorney General and to the INS, that 20 his name shall be struck from the list of 21 those who are suspected aliens and his records 22 expunged completely. There's nothing in this 23 bill that says that, is there? 24 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, if 25 the person turns out to be a legal immigrant, 1 then nothing happens. 2 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Except his 3 name is on the list maintained by the Attorney 4 General and the INS. 5 SENATOR PADAVAN: You keep 6 using the word "list". The information that's 7 kept by the Attorney General which is used in 8 a circumstance like that would obviously be 9 corrected. 10 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is there a 11 provision in this bill 12 SENATOR PADAVAN: Oh, Senator. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- that 14 provides for the correction? 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: No, but I 16 think it's clear if that information is 17 erroneous, it would be corrected. 18 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Okay. 19 Thank you, Mr. President. On the bill. 20 Senator Padavan, I agree with 21 Senator Leichter 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 23 Senator Dollinger on the bill. 24 SENATOR DOLLINGER: -- that the 25 problem of illegal immigration is one that we 1 face in this country and that we have to deal 2 with. The question is whether this bill deals 3 with it and, quite frankly, with all due 4 respect to Senator Padavan, I have to look at 5 this bill and question why we're doing it, 6 because we're transmitting information to the 7 Attorney General of the state of New York who 8 has no enforcement power over illegal 9 immigration. We're asking him to produce a 10 duplicative list of suspected aliens that the 11 Immigration and Naturalization Service, which 12 has nationwide -- frankly, Senator Padavan, 13 they could be in New York City in one day and 14 Oswego the next and in Santa Jolla, California 15 the following day. INS which has nationwide 16 authority would be much better off tracking 17 that suspected illegal alien than would the 18 Attorney General of the state of New York or 19 the regional office of the INS and then it 20 says that it's only their suspected alien 21 status. What happens when the suspected 22 alien's name is transmitted to the Attorney 23 General or the INS and it's later determined 24 in a proceeding that he or she is a legal 25 immigrant, in fact a citizen, entitled to be 1 here? They're already on the suspected alien 2 list. They're already on the suspected list. 3 The information has already been passed as a 4 suspect. They don't get a chance to go back. 5 This bill doesn't provide for the suspected 6 alien who's found to be a citizen to go back 7 and erase his name from the suspicion list. 8 With all due respect, Senator 9 Padavan, the fact that we're duplicating 10 efforts, we don't have a provision for 11 expunging the wrongful determination by the 12 police, and yet we create a duplication 13 process in the efforts, raises to me a 14 question as to why we're doing this bill. Why 15 would we do it if all we're trying to do is 16 duplicate the efforts of INS for suspected 17 aliens and there's no expungement provision. 18 What this bill does, and I 19 agree with Senator Waldon. This is an "us" 20 and "them" bill. This is all about us and 21 them. It's all about a group of people. Look 22 around this room and figure out who "us" is. 23 This is a bill that will never be used against 24 Canadian illegal immigrants. It will probably 25 never be used against Australian immigrants. 1 It will probably never be used against New 2 Zealand immigrants. You know what it's going 3 to be used again? It's going to be used 4 against Puerto Ricans. It's going to be used 5 against African-Americans. It's going to be 6 used against Japanese-Americans. It's going 7 to be used against Chinese-Americans. It's 8 going to be used against people who don't talk 9 like us, don't look like us and don't act like 10 us, and the problem is there was a time, not 11 long ago, go back 50 years and you know what 12 we would have done? We would have used this 13 very same bill and said, My gosh. You wear 14 one of those pins in your lapel that has 15 orange, green and white, you must not be an 16 American. You walk around with a yarmulka on, 17 you must not be an American. You walk around 18 speaking Italian, you must not be an 19 American. You have a heavy Slavic accident 20 accent, we better put you on the suspected 21 alien list. 22 The problem is this bill preys 23 on our worst fears of who the thems are, and 24 the problem is it seems to me that if anything 25 has been proven in American history it's that 1 sooner or later, the thems become us. That's 2 what we're all about. We were all once the 3 thems that someone else was trying to keep 4 out. 5 Senator Padavan, the problem of 6 illegal immigration -- I voted for bills that 7 you've brought up about illegal immigrants. I 8 don't think we have to shelter illegal 9 immigrants. I don't think we have to provide 10 them with certain cases with special 11 protections, but one thing we have to do is we 12 can't allow the authorities to use the 13 prejudices and the stereotypes against people 14 who are here in this country. 15 There's a way to do it. The 16 INS is trying to do it. Lord knows they need 17 more resources. This bill, unfortunately, in 18 my judgment, preys on stereotypes and won't 19 accomplish the goal that you seek to achieve. 20 Unfortunately, it only does 21 something to accentuate them against us and to 22 quote Senator Waldon, I guess all of us are 23 Americans and we were all once immigrants and 24 this is not consistent with our immigrant 25 past. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 2 Senator Lachman. 3 SENATOR LACHMAN: On the bill. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 5 Senator Lachman on the bill. 6 SENATOR LACHMAN: And I'll try 7 to be brief. When Ted Sorensen and John F. 8 Kennedy co-wrote the book, A Nation of 9 Immigrants, they spoke about a unique nation 10 which is the United States whose people have 11 come from all over the world, who speak 12 different languages and are of different races 13 and nationalities. 14 Now, I understand, Senator 15 Padavan, what your objective and what your 16 goal is, and I do not believe that this 17 necessarily will reach that goal and 18 objective. I for one believe that we should 19 not countenance anything from those who are 20 illegal immigrants but at the same time I am 21 fearful that this bill blurs the line between 22 legal immigrants and illegal immigrants. 23 Now, I happen to be the son of 24 one legal immigrant and one American citizen, 25 and I know the fears that legal immigrants 1 have, not necessarily or only because they are 2 a different race but because they cannot speak 3 the language of the land. Their mother tongue 4 is Greek. Their mother tongue is Italian. 5 Their mother tongue is Russian. Their mother 6 tongue is Polish. Their mother tongue is 7 Arabic. Their mother tongue is Hebrew. Their 8 mother tongue is Japanese. 9 Now, the differentiation might 10 be that an illegal immigrant is able to speak 11 English better than a legal immigrant and this 12 bill could lead to a situation where the 13 rights of legal immigrants are diminished 14 without in any way hurting or diminishing the 15 rights of illegal immigrants. 16 Now, I am not going to say that 17 this bill opens up a flood for witch hunts, 18 but I am going to say it does not achieve its 19 objectives. It has states meddling in federal 20 affairs and it can lead to dangerous 21 consequences for legal aliens who live in 22 America and have the rights of Americans. 23 Thank you. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 25 Read the last section, please. 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 2 This act shall take effect on the 30th day. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 4 Call the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the 6 roll.) 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 8 Please record the negatives. Announce the 9 results. 10 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded 11 in the negative on Calendar Number 319 are 12 Senators Connor, Dollinger, Gonzalez, Kruger, 13 Lachman, Leichter, Markowitz, Mendez, 14 Montgomery, Paterson, Rosado, Santiago, Smith, 15 Stavisky and Waldon. Ayes 43, nays 15. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 17 The bill is passed. 18 Senator Paterson, why do you 19 rise? 20 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 21 President, I would just like us to pause in 22 our deliberations for a moment to recognize 23 the newly elected Borough President of the 24 borough of Manhattan in the city of New York, 25 former City Council member from my district on 1 the upper west side of Manhattan and a long 2 fighter for social justice in our state, the 3 Honorable C. Virginia Fields has joined us 4 today. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 6 Ms. Fields, welcome. 7 (Applause) 8 Senator Kruger, why do you 9 rise? 10 SENATOR KRUGER: Yes, Mr. 11 President. I would ask for unanimous consent 12 to be recorded in the negative on Calendar 13 Number 273. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 15 Without objection, so ordered. 16 Senator Nanula. 17 SENATOR NANULA: Thank you, Mr. 18 President. 19 On Calendar Number 273, I'm 20 also requesting unanimous consent to be 21 recorded in the negative. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 23 Without objection, so ordered. 24 SENATOR NANULA: Thank you. 25 SENATOR WALDON: Mr. President. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 2 Senator Waldon. 3 SENATOR WALDON: I happened to 4 be out of the room when we dealt with Calendar 5 273 and request unanimous consent to be 6 recorded in the negative. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 8 Without objection, so ordered. 9 Senator Lachman. 10 SENATOR LACHMAN: I was out of 11 the chamber at that time, 273, consent to be 12 recorded in the negative. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 14 So ordered, without objection. 15 Senator Stavisky. 16 SENATOR STAVISKY: Mr. 17 President, yesterday there were votes on 18 Senate 2351, Calendar 241. I would have been 19 recorded in the negative on that vote. 20 There was also a vote on 21 Calendar 465, Senate 4595. I wish the record 22 to reflect that I would have voted in the 23 negative on that and finally yesterday, Senate 24 Calendar 545, Senate 1955, I wish the record 25 to reflect that I would have voted in the 1 negative on that. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 3 The record will so show, Senator. 4 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 6 Senator Gonzalez. 7 SENATOR GONZALEZ: Yes, Mr. 8 President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 10 Excuse me, Senator Gonzalez. 11 Ladies and gentlemen, please. 12 Senator. 13 SENATOR GONZALEZ: Yes. I 14 would like to be recorded in the negative on 15 Calendar 273. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 17 Without objection, so ordered. 18 Senator Santiago. 19 SENATOR SANTIAGO: Mr. 20 President, unanimous consent to be recorded in 21 the negative on Calendar 273. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 23 Without objection, so ordered. 24 Senator Gold. 25 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Mr. 1 President. 2 I would ask unanimous consent 3 to be voted in the negative on Calendar Number 4 273 and also Calendar 319. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 6 Without objection, so ordered. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you so 8 much. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 10 The Secretary will read. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 361, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 665, an 13 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, the 14 Family Court Act, the Penal Law and the Public 15 Health Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 17 Senator Paterson, why do you rise? 18 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 19 President, this is a bill that has very good 20 merit. It would test the perpetrators of 21 certain crimes after arrest if the victim of 22 the crime feels that he or she has been 23 exposed to transmittable diseases of a 24 life-threatening proportion. However -- and 25 we certainly understand the sponsor's desire 1 to protect the victims. 2 What this bill does is really 3 to ignore most of the prescriptions that have 4 been lended to us by the AIDS Advisory 5 Committee and also the Center for Disease 6 Control, which really compel us to understand 7 that testing the alleged perpetrator of a 8 crime, or at least testing the person that may 9 have transmitted the disease, does not ensure 10 anything to the victim. There are certain 11 protocols that are described for the victim by 12 the Center for Disease Control, a four-week 13 program of medical intervention hopefully 14 starting two to four hours after the alleged 15 transmission and yet if a 24- to 36-hour 16 period elapses, it may be impossible for the 17 actual protocol or the prescribed medical 18 procedure to be effective. 19 It seems unlikely that we would 20 be able to make application and have the test 21 of the perpetrator at that particular time. 22 So the safest medical procedure is to test the 23 victim and if necessary as a precaution to 24 treat the victim. We would not want to be 25 unnecessarily punishing the accused out of a 1 feeling that the crime was actually committed 2 and at the same time if our real interests is 3 that of the victim and protecting the health 4 and welfare of the victim, what I would 5 certainly suggest to the sponsor what we might 6 consider is a prophylaxis or perhaps 7 state-sponsored testing of victims for these 8 types of crimes and -- I mean, state-sponsored 9 testing the victim when exposed to these types 10 of diseases and also and very importantly the 11 counseling and the education that would be 12 necessary so that the victim would know what 13 his or her options would be. 14 In this period of new diseases 15 and the inability at times of our treatments 16 to cure an individual who may be exposed, 17 certainly that rise -- that rise in climate of 18 public anxiety over the subject makes us very 19 sensitive to the desire to protect victims of 20 crimes and to protect people from being 21 exposed to life- threatening diseases. 22 However, it's our position that 23 this legislation would not bring us any closer 24 to that ideal and that if anything it might 25 confuse the issue by focusing too much 1 attention on the accused. If they committed 2 the crime, hopefully they will be punished to 3 the full extent of the law but their 4 culpability for exposing the victim to the 5 disease is another issue related more to the 6 crime and that the safest way to protect the 7 victim is to test the victim or begin 8 immediate intervention of a medical nature as 9 a precautionary procedure immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 11 Read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. 13 This act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 15 Call the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the 17 roll.) 18 SENATOR LEICHTER: Mr. 19 President, to explain my vote. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 21 Senator Leichter to explain his vote. 22 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yeah. We've 23 had this bill before, as I guess we have had 24 just about every other bill that seems to be 25 debated on this floor. The real objection of 1 this bill is that it does absolutely nothing 2 for the victim. I mean, it's a hoax to say 3 that any assistance is being given to the 4 victim because it doesn't do it. 5 All of the knowledgeable people 6 who deal in the area of AIDS will tell you 7 that this bill does nothing, that you've got 8 to test the victim, and this really does harm 9 because it may lead victims not to be tested 10 because the alleged perpetrator isn't, and 11 it's for that reason it's opposed by the 12 NYCLU, the New York State Bar Association, the 13 New York State AIDS Coalition, GMHC, Empire 14 State Pride in Gender, and it's opposed by me. 15 I vote in the negative. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 17 Please announce the results. 18 Senator Saland, do you wish to 19 explain your vote? 20 SENATOR SALAND: Yes. Thank 21 you, Mr. President. 22 I don't wish to engage in a 23 debate that will exacerbate anything here, but 24 I did take particularly unkindly to the -- to 25 the statement that this, in fact, represented 1 a hoax. I know we have differences of opinion 2 on this. Certainly Senator Leichter has been 3 clear and outspoken in his opposition. 4 I would just request that 5 before he so blithely puts out comments such 6 as condemning a bill as being a hoax, that he 7 might like to look at those parts of the bill, 8 in case he hasn't read it in its entirety, 9 that basically requires the very 10 acknowledgment of counseling in the victim's 11 testing, but also particularly if you would 12 indulge me just very briefly, I would like to 13 read from -- without bothering to identify all 14 the groups that support this -- Governor 15 Cuomo's Task Force on Rape and Sexual Assault 16 report of April of 1990 as contained in 17 Recommendation 16. 18 "An efficient process should 19 be developed by which a victim of rape and 20 sexual assault can easily access the civil 21 court system to seek a court order to require 22 HIV testing of an alleged sex offender to 23 obtain the defendant's HIV antibody status. 24 "While this information will 25 not necessarily answer the question of whether 1 the victim has been infected, it might assist 2 the victim in making difficult health care 3 decisions" -- and I am skipping sections 4 here. 5 "While the result alone may 6 not be determined if some victims after 7 consultation with their physician or an HIV 8 counselor may want to begin immediate 9 treatment with prophylactic drugs. Where the 10 assailant's first test is positive, the victim 11 may want to make immediate -- want to begin 12 immediate drug therapy even though she or he 13 might not have actually been infected. 14 "Even if the offender's first 15 test turns out to be negative, the victim may 16 nevertheless want to proceed with drug therapy 17 since she or he may have been exposed. 18 "The question of how and when 19 to test the alleged sex offender remains. The 20 Task Force considered and rejected waiting 21 until an accused is convicted. 22 "While a convicted defendant 23 is no longer presumed innocent and has fewer 24 procedural rights, there are two problems with 25 waiting for conviction. One, extensive delay 1 is inevitable because it can takes weeks for 2 conviction by plea and months for conviction 3 by verdict and two, there are a number of 4 acquittals and dismissals where the defendant 5 may have nevertheless infected the victim. In 6 either case, conviction is not an adequate 7 triggering event." 8 It goes on to say, "For similar 9 reasons, indictment is not a good marker. 10 Indictments can be delayed, particularly where 11 a defendant is at liberty. Furthermore, a 12 prosecutor may be unable to obtain an 13 indictment for reasons unrelated to the 14 accused as the true perpetrator." 15 This bill uses the filing of an 16 information or the laying of an indictment and 17 certainly is perhaps less -- more generous 18 than was proposed by Governor Cuomo's task 19 force. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 21 Thank you, Senator. 22 Announce the results, please. 23 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded 24 in the negative on Calendar Number 361 are 25 Senators Abate, Breslin, Connor, Dollinger, 1 Gonzalez, Goodman, Leichter, Markowitz, 2 Montgomery, Nanula, Paterson, Rosado, 3 Santiago, Smith, Waldon. Also, Senator 4 Mendez. Ayes 42, nays 16. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 6 The bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Also, Senator 8 Stavisky. Ayes 41, nays 17. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 10 The bill is still passed. 11 The Secretary will read. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 461, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2223, an 14 act to amend the Penal Law. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 16 Read the last section, please. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. 18 This act shall take effect on the first day of 19 November. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 21 Call the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the 23 roll.) 24 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded 25 in the negative on Calendar Number 461 are 1 Senators Abate, Gonzalez, Leichter, Markowitz, 2 Mendez, Montgomery, Paterson, Santiago, Smith, 3 Stavisky and Waldon. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 5 Senator Santiago, do you wish to be recorded? 6 She wishes to be recorded in 7 the negative. 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47, nays 9 11. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 11 The bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 471, by member of the Assembly Hill, Assembly 14 Print 21-A, an act authorizing the county of 15 Nassau. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 17 Read the last section, please. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 19 This act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 21 Call the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the 23 roll.) 24 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Is this the 25 Hannon bill? 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 2 Yes, it is, Senator Dollinger. 3 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Record me 4 in the negative, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 6 Thank you. Senator Dollinger in the 7 negative. 8 Announce the results. 9 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded 10 in the negative on Calendar Number 471 are 11 Senators Cook, Dollinger and Paterson. Ayes 12 55, nays 3. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 14 The bill is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 553, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 4408-A, an 17 act to amend the General Municipal Law, the 18 Public Housing Law and the State Finance Law. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 20 Senator Paterson, why do you rise? 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Mr. 22 President, as much as I researched this bill, 23 I fail to see the distinction between this 24 piece of legislation and the one we passed in 25 this chamber by Senator Holland just last 1 week. So I'm going to stand on my argument 2 for last week and anyone that would like to 3 hear it can look it up, or I have it available 4 on CDs for 19.95. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 6 Read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. 8 This act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 10 Call the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the 12 roll.) 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 14 Record the negatives and announce the results, 15 please. 16 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded 17 in the negative on Calendar Number 553 are 18 Senators Connor, DeFrancisco, Dollinger, 19 Leichter and Paterson. Ayes 53, nays 5. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 21 The bill is passed. 22 Senator Larkin, why do you 23 rise? 24 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 25 may we return to reports of standing 1 committees? I believe there's a report of the 2 Cities Committee at the desk. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 4 We will report -- return to the report of 5 standing committees. 6 The Secretary will read. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator 8 Padavan, from the Committee on Cities, 9 reports: 10 Senate Print 6059-C, by Senator 11 Breslin, an act authorizing the city of Albany 12 to appoint additional members to its board of 13 assessment review. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 15 Without objection, the bill is reported to 16 third reading. 17 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 18 let's return to motions and resolutions. I 19 believe there's a privileged resolution there 20 for Senator Leibell, and I ask that it be read 21 and moved for its immediate adoption. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 23 The Secretary will read. 24 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 25 Leibell, Legislative Resolution, honoring 1 Chief Gregory J. Amato, upon the occasion of 2 his retirement from the town of Carmel Police 3 Department, to be celebrated May 9th, 1998. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 5 The motion is on the resolution. All in favor 6 signify by saying aye. 7 (Response of "Aye".) 8 Opposed, nay. 9 (There was no response.) 10 The resolution is adopted. 11 Senator Larkin. 12 SENATOR LARKIN: Is there any 13 housekeeping at the desk? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: I 15 believe the house is clean, sir. 16 SENATOR LARKIN: Then, there 17 being no further business, I move we adjourn 18 until Wednesday, May the 6th, at 11:00 a.m., 19 and I would like to remind everybody that 20 tomorrow is West Point Day, and those of you 21 who have cadets who will be here, you have 22 received a notice and you're invited to have 23 coffee with them before session. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 25 The Senate will stand adjourned until 1 Wednesday, May 6th, at 11:00 a.m. sharp. 2 (Whereupon, at 4:51 p.m., the 3 Senate adjourned.) 4 5 6 7 8 9