Monday, May 18, 1998

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 May 18, 1998 11 3:15 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 LT. GOVERNOR BETSY McCAUGHEY ROSS, President 19 STEPHEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 THE PRESIDENT: Would all 3 please rise and join with me in the Pledge of 4 Allegiance. 5 (The assemblage repeated the 6 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 7 May we bow our heads in a 8 moment of silence. 9 (A moment of silence was 10 observed.) 11 The reading of the Journal, 12 please. 13 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 14 Sunday, May 17th. The Senate met pursuant to 15 adjournment, Senator Farley in the Chair upon 16 designation of the Temporary President. The 17 Journal of Saturday, May 16th, was read and 18 approved. On motion, Senate adjourned. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Without 20 objection, the Journal stands approved as 21 read. 22 Presentation of petitions. 23 Messages from the Assembly. 24 Messages from the Governor. 25 Reports of standing committees. 1 Reports of select committees. 2 Communications and reports from 3 state officers. 4 Motions and resolutions. 5 Senator Gold. Yes, Senator 6 Gold. 7 SENATOR GOLD: If I may, Madam 8 President, just a brief interruption. For 9 years I had the great honor and distinction of 10 having as my Assemblyman, one of the brightest 11 people who's ever served in this Legislature, 12 and he was also bright enough to know when to 13 get out and when he did get out, the people of 14 the city of New York were bright enough to 15 elect him as their comptroller, and I gather 16 that he's up here today with a group pushing 17 some very important legislation dealing with 18 the labor issues, and if you could welcome the 19 very, very distinguished comptroller of the 20 city of New York, Alan Hevesi. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Welcome, Alan 22 Hevesi. 23 (Applause) 24 Senator Kuhl. 25 SENATOR KUHL: Yes, Madam 1 President. I move the following bills be 2 discharged from their respective committees 3 and be recommitted with instructions to strike 4 the enacting clause. Those are Senate Prints 5 1453 and 3952. 6 THE PRESIDENT: So ordered. 7 The enacting clause will be struck. 8 Senator Skelos. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam 10 President, are there substitutions to be made? 11 THE PRESIDENT: Yes. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Please make 13 the substitutions. 14 THE PRESIDENT: So ordered. 15 Secretary will read. 16 THE SECRETARY: On page 40, 17 Senator Cook moves to discharge from the 18 Committee on Education Assembly Bill Number 19 4442-D, and substitute it for the identical 20 Third Reading Calendar 389. 21 On page 45, Senator Trunzo 22 moves to discharge from the Committee on Civil 23 Service and Pensions Assembly Bill Number 24 7624-A, and substitute it for the identical 25 Third Reading Calendar 516. 1 On page 58, Senator Seward 2 moves to discharge from the Committee on 3 Cities, Assembly Bill Number 10,677, and 4 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 5 Calendar 746. 6 On page 6, Senator Lack moves 7 to discharge from the Committee on Judiciary 8 Assembly Bill Number 8175, and substitute it 9 for the identical Third -- First Report 10 Calendar 1139; and on page 6 Senator Velella 11 moves to discharge from the Committee on 12 Judiciary Assembly Bill Number 1816-A, and 13 substitute it for the identical First Report 14 Calendar 1142. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Substitutions 16 are ordered. 17 Senator Skelos. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam 19 President, with the consent of the Minority, I 20 move that Calendar Number 1100, Senate 2869, 21 by Senator Johnson, which is advancing to 22 third reading today, have its third reading. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 24 read. So ordered. 25 THE SECRETARY: Are we going to 1 non-controversial? 2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 3 Skelos? 4 SENATOR SKELOS: If you could 5 take up the non-controversial calendar, 6 please. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Secretary will 8 read. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 3, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 3886, an 11 act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law, in 12 relation to approved mobile crisis outreach 13 teams. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 15 section, please. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 17 This act shall take effect immediately. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the 20 roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 22 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 23 passed. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 6, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 459-A, an 1 act to amend the General Municipal Law, the 2 State Finance Law and the Municipal Home Rule 3 Law. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 5 section, please. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. 7 This act shall take effect on the 120th day. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the 10 roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 12 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 13 passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 18, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 1143-A, an 16 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 17 including the intentional preventing of 18 hospital emergency department personnel. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 20 section, please. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 22 This act shall take effect on the first day of 23 November. 24 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 25 (The Secretary called the 1 roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 3 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 4 passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 59, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 1659-A, an 7 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 8 relation to creating the crime of aggravated 9 driving while intoxicated. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 11 section, please. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 9. 13 This act shall take effect on the first day of 14 November. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the 17 roll. ) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 40. 19 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 20 passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 271, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 2012-A, 23 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in 24 relation to subjecting certain state lands. 25 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 1 section, please. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 3 This act shall take effect immediately. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the 6 roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 8 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 9 passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 272, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 2167-A, 12 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in 13 relation to subjecting lands. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 15 section, please. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 17 This act shall take effect immediately. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the 20 roll. ) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 22 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 23 passed. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 330, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 737-A, 1 an act to amend the Public Health Law. 2 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay aside, 3 please. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Lay it aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 470, by Senator Volker. 7 SENATOR GOLD: Lay it aside. 8 SENATOR PATERSON: Lay it aside. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Lay it aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 500, by Senator Kuhl, Senate Print 6332-A, an 12 act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, 13 in relation to penalties. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 15 section, please. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 17 This act shall take effect on the first day of 18 November. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the 21 roll. ) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 23 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 24 passed. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 1 559, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 6421, an 2 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 3 relation to issuance of building permits. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 7 This act shall take effect in 180 days. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the 11 roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 14 bill is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 633, by Senator Cook, Senate Print 6276-A. 17 SENATOR BRUNO: Lay aside, 18 please. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay 20 the bill aside temporarily. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 649, by Senator Goodman, Senate Print 4843, an 23 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 24 gambling offenses. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 1 the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. 3 This act shall take effect on the first day of 4 November. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the 8 roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 652, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 6415, an 14 act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules, 15 in relation to the inadmissibility of 16 settlement negotiations. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 20 This act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the 24 roll.) 25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 2 bill is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 657, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 5935-A, 5 an act to amend the General Business Law, in 6 relation to senior citizen discounts. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 8 the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 10 This act shall take effect in 120 days. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 12 the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the 14 roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 17 bill is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 661, by member of the Assembly Harenberg, 20 Assembly Print 2587, an act to amend the 21 Executive Law, in relation to creating. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 23 the last section. 24 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 25 This act shall take effect immediately. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the 4 roll. ) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 42. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 662, by Senator Holland, Senate Print 2068-A, 10 an act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to 11 providing for business tax credits. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 13 the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. 15 This act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 17 the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the 19 roll. ) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 22 bill is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 676, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 4219, 25 an act to amend the Correction Law, in 1 relation to extending civil immunity to 2 officers. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 4 the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 6 This act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 8 the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the 10 roll. ) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 47. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 693, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 6064, an 16 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to 17 compensation paid. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 21 This act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 23 the roll. 24 (The Secretary called the 25 roll. ) 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 703, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 6418, an 6 act to amend the Judiciary Law, in relation to 7 appeals from Appellate Division orders. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 11 This act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the 15 roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 48. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 18 bill is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 704, by Senator Lack, Senate Print 6419, an 21 act to amend the Family Court Act, in relation 22 to filing. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Have 24 some order in the house, please. Read the 25 last section. 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 2 This act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the 6 roll. ) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 9 bill is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 734, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 3989, an 12 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 13 relation to extending the time of license. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 17 This act shall take effect on the first day of 18 November. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 20 the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the 22 roll. ) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 25 bill is passed. 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 771, by Senator Stafford, Senate Print 6855, 3 an act in relation to the lease or rental of 4 certain land in Warren County. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 6 There's a home rule message at the desk. Read 7 the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. 9 This act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the 13 roll. ) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 16 bill is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon 18 moves to discharge from the Committee on 19 Health Assembly Bill Number 10,399 and 20 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 21 Calendar 775. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 23 Substitution ordered. 24 The Secretary will read. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 1 775, by member of the Assembly Gottfried, 2 Assembly Print 10,399, an act to amend Chapter 3 314 of the Laws of 1984. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 7 This act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the 11 roll. ) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 49. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 14 bill is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 777, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 6902, an 17 act to amend Chapter 725 of the Laws of 1989, 18 amending the Public Health Law. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 22 This act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 24 the roll. 25 (The Secretary called the 1 roll. ) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator 6 DeFrancisco moves to discharge from the 7 Committee on Health Assembly Bill Number 8 10,148 and substitute it for the identical 9 Third Reading Calendar 779. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 11 Substitution ordered. 12 The Secretary will read. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 779, by member of the Assembly Christensen, 15 Assembly Print 10,148, an act to amend the 16 Public Health Law, in relation to the 17 provision of services. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 21 This act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 23 the roll. 24 (The Secretary called the 25 roll. ) 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 840, by Senator Present, Senate Print 6173, an 6 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 7 relation to authorizing electronic court 8 appearances. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 10 the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 14 the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the 16 roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1100, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 2869, 22 advanced earlier today, an act to amend the 23 Public Authorities Law, in relation to 24 authorizing the Thruway Authority. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read 1 the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. 3 This act shall take effect in 180 days. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the 7 roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes 50. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 10 bill is passed. 11 Senator Bruno, that concludes 12 the reading of the non-controversial 13 calendar. 14 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you, Mr. 15 President. 16 Mr. President, can we at this 17 time take up the controversial calendar 18 starting with Calendar Number 470. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 20 Secretary will read the controversial calendar 21 beginning with Calendar Number 470. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 470, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 6604, an 24 act to amend the Penal Law, the Executive Law, 25 the Criminal Procedure Law, in relation to 1 eliminating parole. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Explanation. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 4 Senator Bruno, an explanation has been 5 requested of Calendar 470. 6 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you, Mr. 7 President. 8 Senator Volker, as the sponsor, 9 will go into some detail on explaining this 10 bill that's before us, with his colleague, 11 Senator DeFrancisco, as co-sponsor, and I 12 believe some others will want to speak. 13 I would like to speak for just 14 a few moments on this bill which is known as 15 "Jenna's Law" and we're hopeful that this 16 will become Jenna's Law. 17 Jenna Greishaber was a lady 22 18 years old and was killed almost six months 19 ago, November 6th, in Albany, New York. She 20 was a student at Russell Sage. What we're 21 doing here today, hopefully, will be the first 22 passage in the Legislature for a bill that 23 must become a law; but I'm standing because I 24 want to commend and thank Jenna's parents who 25 are here, Bruce and Janice up on my right in 1 the center, and I want to thank them for their 2 courage, for their courageous efforts with 3 their daughter Erica. They have a mission, 4 and their mission is to help protect so many 5 others who are out there in our society from 6 being preyed upon by people who are out of 7 prison on parole and released early, and their 8 daughter was killed by a violent felon who was 9 out on parole, and had he served a sentence as 10 will be required in Jenna's Law, Jenna 11 undoubtedly would be alive today. 12 So to Janice and to Bruce, to 13 your family, we just want to say thank you. 14 As a father, as a grandfather, we can relate 15 to the heartache but unless you've experienced 16 such a tragedy, it would be hard to really be 17 totally aware. But I know one thing, that 18 it's got to be difficult every time Jenna's 19 name is mentioned and every time that you step 20 out throughout the state and throughout this 21 country with your efforts to make our lives 22 safer for our children and our grandchildren 23 and for all of the people in society, we're 24 indebted to you, and what will happen here 25 this afternoon hopefully will happen in the 1 Assembly and, as we all know, the Governor has 2 provided the leadership by sending us a 3 program bill, and that's what is before us. 4 So again, my colleagues, I ask 5 you to support this, and I know you will, and 6 I ask that you join me in our gratitude and 7 our thanks to Janice and Bruce and to their 8 family for their valiant efforts and their 9 courage in the face of such adversity that is 10 out there before them in their lives every 11 day. 12 Thank you. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 14 Senator Volker. 15 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. 16 President. Thank you, Senator Bruno, and I 17 know how strongly you feel about this issue, 18 as I do. As I've said in the press 19 conferences both with the Governor and with us 20 very recently, I have a daughter who is going 21 to turn 20 this week who is in college, and I 22 guess you try not to personalize these issues 23 in many ways because of the system that we 24 have, but it's very difficult to not 25 personalize, and those of us that know me do 1 know that I do have a tendency to personalize 2 given my prior life. 3 I think probably the provisions 4 of this bill, ironically, of the bills that 5 we've had this year probably are better known 6 than almost any bill that we have not done in 7 a long time. I say that because there has 8 been so much discussion already not only in 9 the press, but I think at various times with 10 legislators about the implications of the 11 first felony offender status that I think that 12 most of us are aware of at least the initial 13 provisions of the bill, but let me just run 14 through it very quickly, and I say that, 15 because of some of the discussion that's come 16 up lately on the Rockefeller drug laws, we did 17 a -- my committee staff, committee, did a 18 little rundown on the changes in laws, on 19 sentencing laws over the last 20 years. There 20 seems to be a rather strange deja vu around 21 here on sentencing that many people have - 22 forget about the enormous changes that have 23 been made and in the last four years there 24 have been -- three years and almost four years 25 now, there have been enormous changes 1 certainly made under our Governor, George 2 Pataki. 3 A historic bill was passed in 4 this house and became law, second felony 5 offender reform. There were all sorts of 6 predictions of dire consequences, and the only 7 dire consequences there have been that the 8 crime rate in this state continues to 9 nosedive, and that people are going to jail 10 for longer periods of time, and we have a lot 11 more people who committed violent felony 12 offenses off our streets. 13 This bill deals with first 14 violent felony offenders, not minor 15 offenders. These are people who are listed in 16 the Penal Law under the so-called VFO 17 sections. These are people that commit 18 serious crimes. Under the present law, there 19 are minimum and maximum sentences that give a 20 great deal more flexibility and allow the 21 Parole Board to parole people at a much 22 earlier time than the bill that is before us 23 would allow. 24 Essentially, although it's been 25 reported that this bill would say no parole, 1 that's not, obviously, accurate. What it is 2 is using the so-called "truth in sentencing" 3 provisions from Washington which are aimed 4 primarily at second felony offenders. It 5 would use the six-seventh test, that is six 6 sevenths, or 83 percent, of the maximum of the 7 sentence would have to be served, with the 8 possibility of something we call "good time" 9 which means that if you don't create problems 10 and if you are an exemplary prisoner, you 11 could in effect be paroled after that 12 six-seventh time. 13 But what this bill does, even 14 more than that, after that -- and these, by 15 the way, are for B, C, D and E felons -- for B 16 and C felons it provides a five-year period 17 after the person is released from prison, what 18 we call supervisory parole, and this is 19 something fairly new to the system. There's a 20 few states that have been getting into it, but 21 New York I think is really ahead of the - 22 ahead of the scale, for the most part, here in 23 moving toward this. The Governor and his 24 people are to be immensely commended. It 25 provides for five years supervision; for those 1 that are D and E felons it provides for 2 three-year supervision. 3 One other thing I think most 4 people don't realize, for second felony 5 offenders, because we have already passed 6 upgrading for second-time VFOs, for second 7 violent felony offenders, but we do not have 8 supervision after that. In this bill is a 9 provision which would provide for five-year 10 supervision after the people that are second 11 felony offenders are let out of jail, and 12 finally in this area, another area that I 13 don't think has got a lot of notice, for sex 14 offenders, for serious sex offenders, this 15 bill provides for lifetime supervision. 16 So this is a tough bill, no 17 question. Remember, this deals with some of 18 the toughest people in our society. In 19 addition, this bill would provide for 20 notification to all victims of violent crimes 21 whenever an offender is scheduled to be 22 released from prison. It's a more 23 comprehensive notification provision than 24 we've had in the past and basically it would 25 say that the victims would have to be 1 notified. 2 Finally, let me say this bill 3 would become effective on September 1st of 4 1998. There apparently has been some 5 confusion about what it would apply to. It 6 would apply only to crimes, because of the 7 constitutional provisions. In fact, some of 8 the people in this chamber may be aware that 9 there was just recently, I think in the last 10 week or two, a decision relating to 11 resentencing because there has always been 12 some question about whether you could pass a 13 law, you know, after somebody committed a 14 crime but prior to resentencing. There's 15 always been some debate about that, if a 16 person was resentenced later on, but the 17 courts have been very clear that this would 18 only apply to people who were convicted, whose 19 crime was actually committed after September 20 1st of 1998 and could not be applied 21 retroactively. 22 SENATOR GOLD: Madam President. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 24 DeFrancisco. 25 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Thank 1 you, Madam President. 2 The reason I'm standing to 3 speak on this particular bill is in view of 4 the fact that the parents of Jenna are from my 5 district, as was Jenna, the town of Camillus. 6 I first met Bruce Greishaber 7 since he works in the same building that I do, 8 where my law practice is, shortly after this 9 very, very tragic event. He had come to me to 10 see what we can do to try to solve these very 11 serious problems where violent felons were out 12 on the street and not in jail, and I informed 13 him early on that we had been working on this 14 issue for some time, where we -- Senator 15 Volker had sponsored a bill that would have 16 done this had there been some response from 17 the other house, a couple of years ago. 18 Unfortunately, it did not happen, and despite 19 the fact that he was in a state of terrible 20 grief, he came to start working on this 21 particular bill from that day forward. This 22 is a couple of weeks after the tragic death. 23 I contacted the Governor's 24 office, who obviously, as was Senator Bruno 25 when I contacted his office, was well aware of 1 this tragic event, it having happened right 2 here in Albany, and they had already started 3 working on a solution for the problem. The 4 Governor made it a top priority by mentioning 5 it in his State of the State message, not only 6 mentioning it but getting the loudest applause 7 when all the legislators were there hearing 8 that this was a priority bill this year. 9 The Governor came out with this 10 program bill which is this bill, and Senator 11 Bruno quickly made it a priority of this house 12 and we're here today to vote on it. It's an 13 important bill. The crusade has been brought 14 to us by both Bruce and Janice and their 15 daughter Erica. 16 The reason that it should be 17 passed is because it's the right thing to do. 18 No doubt many of us will argue that there's 19 too many people in jail. We should have 20 alternatives to incarceration. We should have 21 situations where we can reserve the jails, the 22 overcrowded jails, for those who should be 23 there and this house has stood repeatedly for 24 the proposition that the violent criminals are 25 those who should be there, and the fact that 1 work release has been stopped for violent 2 criminals and the crime rate is going down in 3 the state of New York, the fact that New York 4 City rather than being the crime capital of 5 the world, is now being visited by police 6 commissioners from throughout the country to 7 find out how did New York City do it, how is 8 New York State doing it. 9 The answer is very simple: We 10 have stopped violent felons with two violent 11 felonies from getting out on parole. Now, 12 it's time to go that next step. Had that next 13 step been done a couple of years ago, who 14 knows what would have been the fate of Jenna. 15 Her parents definitely believe she'd still be 16 here today. 17 So the message is very clear. 18 We're here on a bill that has merit; it's the 19 right thing to do, and we should do it and I 20 would urge all of my colleagues from 21 throughout the state to unanimously pass this 22 bill and send it on to the Assembly for 23 passage in that house because it's certain to 24 be signed by the Governor. 25 Thank you. 1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Thank you, Madam 3 President. 4 Could I ask Senator Volker to 5 yield to a question, please? 6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 7 Volker. 8 SENATOR VOLKER: Certainly. 9 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I just 10 want to clarify one issue really for myself. 11 I understand, Senator, there is a difference 12 between talking about discretionary parole and 13 conditional release, is that correct? 14 SENATOR VOLKER: Exactly. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, in 16 terms of this particular bill, my 17 understanding is that this bill deals with the 18 discretionary parole provision, is that 19 correct? 20 SENATOR VOLKER: Well, it -- it 21 -- the bill is crafted so that it deals not 22 only with the potential for the six -- the 23 one-seventh which is what is left after the 24 sentence is served, as well as sets up a 25 post-sentence supervision so that we are 1 talking about the one-seventh piece of it is 2 discretion under -- obviously under the "good 3 time" guidelines but after that you still 4 have, for B and C felons obviously, five 5 years, and three years for D and E felons, but 6 from that perspective it's discretionary 7 except that the time lines are set that the 8 person must serve in effect on parole either 9 five or three years depending on the 10 seriousness of the crime. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 12 SENATOR GOLD: Yes, if the 13 gentleman would yield to one more question. 14 SENATOR VOLKER: Certainly. 15 SENATOR GOLD: Senator, I 16 understand what you said, and I just want to 17 clarify though. I understand the two-thirds 18 and six-sevenths. We're not talking about 19 that. 20 SENATOR VOLKER: Yeah. 21 SENATOR GOLD: There are two 22 separate programs, as I understand it. One is 23 discretionary parole, and the other program is 24 a different program, it's called conditional 25 release. 1 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 2 SENATOR GOLD: Now, my 3 understanding is that the bill in front of us 4 deals with the discretionary parole, but that 5 the conditional release portions of the law 6 remain in effect although it may not take 7 effect on six-seventh. 8 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes, that's 9 true. 10 SENATOR GOLD: All right. 11 Thank you. 12 Madam President, on the bill. 13 Madam President, I listened to 14 Senator Bruno and, unashamed, I will tell you 15 that the man feels in his heart -- and I have 16 to be moved by his comments, and I certainly 17 appreciate Senator DeFrancisco and certainly 18 my friend Senator Volker and the sincerity 19 with which we deal with this issue, and 20 certainly I think I'm no less emotional than 21 anybody else in the room towards the feelings 22 of two individuals and a family that comes 23 here supporting legislation. 24 We're told that this is a 25 solution to a specific problem by one of my 1 colleagues, and we talked about visiting the 2 city of New York because it is now safer and 3 I'll tell you as a very proud resident of the 4 city of New York it is safer, but I'm not 5 going to tell you that it's now O.K., that we 6 only get 100, 200, however many murders a 7 year, but that's O.K. because it's safer. I 8 wouldn't like to be the parent, the brother, 9 the child of anybody who is murdered in any 10 situation, because it's the old story that if 11 you're the victim of a crime, crime is a 12 hundred percent, so I don't know whether that 13 answers too much along those lines. 14 Everybody in this chamber, no 15 matter how they're going to vote, is stunned 16 and horrified, disgusted by what happened to 17 Jenna. There's no doubt about it and that 18 creates one of the problems that we have 19 facing us today in this chamber, because as 20 happens so often we legislate by slogan and 21 while I make no bones about the fact that I 22 have a great admiration for Jenna's parents 23 because there are people who lose children in 24 many different ways; not everyone can lift 25 themselves up and be prepared to carry on any 1 particular fight. 2 But whether or not this bill is 3 the answer or the solution, as has been said, 4 is up to us and if, as in so many other areas, 5 we were to pass a bill out of emotion and the 6 problem remains, we really haven't done too 7 much other than help the press corps for that 8 particular day. 9 The questions that I asked 10 Senator Volker were to make a simple point. 11 It is my understanding, and if my facts are 12 wrong I'd be glad to hear about it but I don't 13 believe they are, it's my understanding that 14 the alleged murderer in the Jenna case had 15 applied for and was denied discretionary 16 parole, denied discretionary parole, and it's 17 my understanding that the individual was out 18 on the street because he was granted by the 19 Department of Corrections, not the Parole 20 Board, but the Department of Corrections 21 granted him conditional release. 22 That, by the way, happened 23 during Governor Pataki's administration, and I 24 point that out not to criticize the Governor 25 but only to make the point that things happen, 1 and you can't point fingers. I think Governor 2 Pataki is as sick about this case as anybody, 3 but things happen during people's time on the 4 watch. 5 But if my facts are accurate, 6 Senator Volker, I don't understand how we say 7 that passing this bill affects what happened 8 to this lovely young lady, because the alleged 9 murderer was not paroled, was not put out on 10 the discretionary parole program that your 11 bill deals with. It deals with a program 12 which you are not touching and leaving there. 13 The bill does increase the penalties, and that 14 is fine. That is -- that is something which, 15 in itself, may make the streets safer. 16 I was also concerned, Senator 17 Volker, that I think in earlier versions or at 18 least in earlier discussions there was no 19 continued supervision, but to the credit of 20 the Governor, we are continuing that 21 supervision. The reason that I thought it was 22 important to make these particular comments is 23 I think that whenever we have a situation that 24 is permeated with deep emotion, we've got to 25 take a deep breath and just settle back and 1 see what the piece of paper says. 2 It is my understanding that, 3 for example, in the issue of late-term 4 abortion after all of the conversations we've 5 had in this house that there may now be a new 6 bill that corrects a lot of the complaints 7 that many of us had with that bill and maybe 8 something that I and other people can vote for 9 because now we've got a real bill and these 10 books in front of us are filled with pages of 11 laws that have specific words in them. 12 I have great sympathy for this 13 bill, and I am unashamed to tell you that I 14 probably will vote for it although I'm going 15 to listen to the debate. But, Senator Volker, 16 I would just say to you in my experience on 17 this floor, amendments don't happen. What 18 happens is we have debates and if it gets 19 really rough maybe it comes back and maybe 20 amendments are made on some other days. 21 But I would just urge upon all 22 my colleagues to understand that, while we are 23 here today for Jenna's Law, as Senator Bruno 24 said, the program that this bill is dealing 25 with is not the program under which the 1 alleged murderer got out of prison, and so I 2 don't see how you make that particular 3 tie-in. 4 Perhaps the bill ought to cover 5 both programs. Perhaps it should cover the 6 discretionary release program which it does 7 cover and maybe it also ought to cover the 8 other program also. 9 I think it's a little of an 10 unfair hit, if my facts are accurate, on the 11 Parole Board that actually turned down the 12 parole and blame them if the person got out on 13 a different program where the Parole Board was 14 not involved and the Department was involved. 15 So having said that, I hope we 16 focus on what the bill in front of us says and 17 if it does need some expansion, Senator 18 Volker, I'd be glad to talk to you about that, 19 but I'm just not convinced, although I -- I 20 may be able to support the bill for what it 21 does do, I'm not convinced that, if this bill 22 were the law, it would have changed the facts 23 in this case. 24 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 25 Volker. 1 SENATOR VOLKER: Madam 2 President. Let me just say, Senator Gold, 3 you're wrong and I know what you're saying and 4 I heard the Assembly's response and what the 5 Assembly did was, and I understand, I mean we 6 understand about conditional release except 7 for one thing. Had this bill been law when 8 Jenna's alleged killer had been sentenced and 9 assuming that that person was sentenced under 10 the normal provisions of this statute, he 11 wouldn't even be out now. The issue of 12 conditional release wouldn't even have been an 13 issue. In other words, under the six-sevenths 14 provision, that person would have been 15 sentenced beyond 2000, I don't know, 2003, 16 whatever it is, somewhere beyond 2000. That 17 is really the issue. 18 What -- there is a question 19 about whether he was released by parole or 20 prison. Whoever he was released by doesn't 21 matter, but had this bill been law it wouldn't 22 have happened and that's the key to this whole 23 issue. 24 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gold. 25 SENATOR GOLD: Yeah, just very 1 briefly. 2 Senator Volker, as the downtown 3 head of your fan club, I understand what you 4 were saying and yes, on the six-seventh 5 portion of this bill, there is no doubt about 6 that. The only thing which I was a little 7 concerned about is that, unfortunately for all 8 of us in this chamber, the facts don't always 9 determine what the press prints, and this case 10 has been a hit on the Parole Board. 11 Now, I'm not here lobbying on 12 behalf of the Parole Board, but if we're going 13 to have a debate, at least let's understand 14 that it wasn't the Parole Board in this 15 particular case, as I understand it, that put 16 the criminal out on the street. It was a 17 different program, so yes, I agree with you on 18 the six-sevenths and on the math, Senator 19 Volker, and that's perhaps why -- one of the 20 reasons why I can support the legislation. 21 But let's not get down on the 22 parole provisions if that is not the reason 23 why the individual was let out of jail. 24 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you. 25 Senator Waldon. 1 SENATOR WALDON: Thank you very 2 much, Madam President. 3 I would request in a moment to 4 ask Senator Volker a question or two, but 5 before doing so, if I may be permitted, I'd 6 like to preface my questions with some 7 remarks. 8 I spent the past week end at a 9 place called Green Acres in Dover Plains. The 10 New York City Mission Society has a camp 11 there. Some of you may know of it as Camp 12 Minisink. I was with a group of people that 13 I've gone on religious retreats with for 25 14 consecutive years, once in the spring and once 15 in the fall. When we began, most of us were 16 early parents, now we find ourselves as 17 grandparents. 18 What we do at each of these 19 sessions is to have a theme, to discuss the 20 theme, to share our reflections upon the theme 21 and to see whether or not it helps us to grow 22 and helps us to resolve the issues facing each 23 of us in our nuclear families. 24 This past week end, the theme 25 was parenting. Two of the children of people 1 in this organization which we call The Tree 2 began with the Presidio movement, Marriage 3 Encounter, some of you may be aware of that, 4 are going to be parents soon, which would make 5 their parents in our organization, our little 6 group, this ad hoc group that's lasted for 25 7 years, grandparents and one of the things that 8 each of us was challenged to do was to send a 9 note, a personal note, to each of the 10 expectant parents trying to help them to 11 anticipate some of the things which may occur 12 in their lives as married people. 13 None of us want to see what 14 happened to this family that is in the 15 gallery. In our expressions, we talked of 16 things like diaper training and what do you do 17 when the child begins to walk, how to not 18 treat the child in an angry fashion when 19 you're angry so that the child would grow up 20 to being all that it could be. 21 That's the point, and the point 22 I'm trying to make is that each of us in this 23 chamber is grieved by the extreme tragedy that 24 the Greishaber family has encountered. It is 25 the worst nightmare of any parent, so I want 1 you to understand, Mrs. Greishaber, that my 2 debate on this issue is in no way 3 disrespectful of you or the memory of your 4 daughter, but philosophically there are some 5 concerns that I have and I must raise them. 6 The people that empower me to come here 7 challenge me to do the things that I feel in 8 terms of conscience and in terms of the laws 9 of the state are correct. So if I do or say 10 anything on this floor that causes you the 11 least bit of concern, let me please apologize 12 ahead of time. 13 Now, if the Senator would 14 permit me to ask him a question or two, Madam 15 President. 16 SENATOR VOLKER: Certainly. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 18 Volker. 19 SENATOR WALDON: Senator 20 Volker, do you have a definition for us while 21 chairman of Codes of what is a career 22 criminal? 23 SENATOR VOLKER: A career 24 criminal? There is no definition, I don't 25 believe, for a career criminal. In this bill, 1 we talk about violent felony offenders if 2 that's what you're talking about. 3 SENATOR WALDON: Madam 4 President, would the gentleman yield again? 5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 6 Volker. 7 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure. 8 SENATOR WALDON: I was not 9 paraphrasing or trying to find another phrase 10 or word for career criminal. I was just 11 trying to get your gut check as to what a 12 career criminal is because those whom we 13 normally deal with in our prison system in 14 terms of very long sentences are under that 15 rubric of career criminal. 16 In your opinion, Senator Volker 17 -- if I may continue, Madam President -- in 18 your opinion, Senator Volker, who do you think 19 is best capable of determining whether someone 20 has benefited from their incarceration? Would 21 it be the judge in anticipation of sentencing? 22 Would it be the district attorney, or might it 23 be the Parole Board before which these people 24 normally come? 25 SENATOR VOLKER: I think what 1 you have to do is, I think when you're looking 2 at the crime -- and these are all serious 3 crimes -- when you talk about career 4 criminals, we have to look at the situation 5 that we have here. 6 First violent felony offenders 7 we're not necessarily saying are career 8 criminals; we're saying they're violent 9 offenders, and we're saying they're people 10 that create a danger to society. What happens 11 is the judge makes a determination on 12 sentencing and his determination is that under 13 the guidelines that he has under the law that 14 we're passing today he determines if that 15 person is found guilty of one of these violent 16 felony offenses, obviously a B, C, D or E, and 17 then he has the sentencing ability, and under 18 this law he will sentence to at least 19 six-sevenths and then after -- after that 20 time, based on, if the person has fulfilled 21 the so-called good time philosophy, then the 22 Parole Board -- then there will be an 23 opportunity to release that person, but if 24 he's a D or E felon or B or C felon, on the 25 one case, it would be five years and on the 1 other case it will be three years before that 2 person will be able to be freed from the 3 post-conviction or the post-sentencing 4 observation. 5 One more thing, just let me 6 point out by the way, that I didn't discuss 7 was that another tough provision of this bill 8 relates to the one-year return. That is, if 9 you violate the parole provisions you must 10 serve at least one year back in incarceration 11 which means that even if you -- say you have a 12 five-year post-release supervision and four 13 years and 11 months, you violate it, you could 14 go back for one year or you will go back for 15 one year. So I'd just like to point that 16 out. That's one of the tough provisions of 17 this bill. 18 SENATOR WALDON: Madam 19 President, would the gentleman yield again? 20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 21 Volker. 22 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure. 23 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, one 24 of the maxims, if you will, of our parole 25 system and in turn our incarceration system 1 has been that we built in some incentives for 2 people to do life while -- right while in 3 prison, so that they may qualify to get out 4 earlier and not be hassled unnecessarily while 5 in prison. 6 It is my understanding -- and 7 you're a former police officer and so am I, 8 that we have these systemic things built in, 9 in part because we want safety and security 10 not only for the inmates but for those who 11 have to work with them on a daily basis, the 12 correction officers. In your mind's eye, is 13 there any value to having a parole system 14 which allows people who do good, promote 15 safety and security in the prison, to be 16 released early? 17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 18 Volker. 19 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, let 20 me just say this. Remember something, and you 21 and I know it. We're talking about first 22 violent felony offenders here, but -- and as I 23 told at the press conference, we must be 24 realistic. Some years ago, I passed a - 25 well, I sponsored and this house passed and 1 both houses and the Governor signed a bill, 2 Governor Cuomo, that provided for first felony 3 offender diversion and the idea was that the 4 Assembly in particular had this idea that 5 somehow we needed to somehow find a way to 6 divert people, that too many people were going 7 to jail who were first felony offenders. 8 The program turned out to be a 9 flop, and the reason it turned out to be a 10 flop is you got to be arrested dozens of times 11 before anybody sends you to jail, particularly 12 in New York City, even violent felony 13 offenders. This is the real world. This is 14 not -- this is not what some of us think, 15 academics think. This is the real -- this is 16 the real world. 17 The real world in New York 18 City, unless they commit very serious crimes 19 and sometimes unfortunately do it two or three 20 times, they're not going to go to jail. So 21 Senator, my response is look, a person who 22 goes to jail, who's convicted of a first 23 violent felony offense, is a person that's a 24 danger to society and, therefore, although we 25 like to have incentives and we -- you know, we 1 have built into our system now some excellent 2 drug treatment and alcohol treatment, and 3 we're doing more and more to deal with the 4 problems of who we have in our prison system. 5 The point, I think, is this, 6 that the policy of the state of New York based 7 on this statute, based on what the Governor 8 has sent us, says that if you commit a serious 9 crime, a serious violent crime, then the judge 10 sends you to jail for a certain length of time 11 which is a longer time, it's true, than it is 12 now, six-sevenths, and the option is if you do 13 not create a problem in prison, you can have 14 that other one-seventh, so to speak. You can 15 get out of prison but even after that the 16 sentence of the crime is so severe you still 17 have to -- to deal with post provisions, 18 parole supervision, and in that case that's 19 where the parole department comes in to make 20 sure that that person handles him or herself 21 in a proper way five years if it's a B or C 22 felony and three years if it's a D or E 23 felony. 24 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 25 gentleman continue to yield, Madam President? 1 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure. 2 SENATOR WALDON: Senator? 3 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 4 SENATOR WALDON: We have over 5 70,000 people in our prisons, twice that 6 number in our local jails. We have a law 7 which you just alluded to, I think, not 8 intentionally, would be most appropriately 9 applied to New York City but this is a law, if 10 it becomes law, this is a proposal if it 11 becomes law which would apply to the entire 12 state. I think that's what we're really 13 driving at here. 14 Would you tell me, please, if 15 you personally believe that every single 16 person who has violated our laws in violent 17 felony offender situations, is equal in terms 18 of the act that they performed? 19 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 20 Volker. 21 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, I 22 think you know my response to that. Obviously 23 they're not equal in terms of the crime that 24 they are involved with, but crimes of violence 25 in this state have reached the proportions 1 where we have to make a judgment, it seems to 2 me, that to get people off the street who 3 commit crimes and we set up in the Penal law, 4 by the way, and we specifically set up, it 5 seems to me that we are making a judgment that 6 the crimes they commit are severe enough that 7 they will have to realize that, if they commit 8 these crimes, that they will be sentenced to a 9 long prison sentence and that they will not 10 have the options that they have had in the 11 past or think they're going to have the option 12 to get out at an early period of time, that 13 they're going to have to serve the vast amount 14 of their sentence and then even after that 15 they're going to have to deal with 16 post-release supervision and they must 17 understand that when they commit those crimes 18 and you know we've often said, you know, when 19 -- I think you and I both when we were out in 20 the street, you know, if you could get swift 21 and sure punishment, why, we would see the 22 crime rate fall. We're beginning to get it, 23 Senator, and this is another move towards 24 that. 25 SENATOR WALDON: Madam 1 President, would the gentleman -- Oh, Mr. 2 President, and - 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: And a 4 good day to you. 5 Does the Senator continue to 6 yield? 7 SENATOR VOLKER: I certainly 8 do, Mr. President. 9 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, if we 10 want to address as a body, as a state, as a 11 government the criminal justice problems that 12 we're facing, would we do it as we're doing it 13 now, piecemeal, last year one law, this year 14 another law, next year another law, and I 15 don't mean to mischaracterize the seriousness 16 of what we're doing. This is extremely 17 serious. It is profound. Its social impact 18 will be long standing and of a very serious 19 nature, but wouldn't it be better for us to 20 create a comprehensive criminal justice 21 package to deal with all of the problems as 22 opposed to doing it piecemeal? That's question 23 one. 24 Number two, if we were doing 25 that, could we not also address the 1 Rockefeller drug situation? If we're talking 2 about, as the Governor stated in an article I 3 have in front of me, if we're going to address 4 our prison capacity which seems to be driven 5 -- a part of the driving force for our 6 dealing with this issue, wouldn't it be better 7 -- I know you're very good, Senator, but I 8 wanted to make sure that you heard what I was 9 saying. 10 Wouldn't it be better for us 11 to, one, have a comprehensive plan; two, free 12 up the prison cells by getting those persons 13 who are not violent felony offenders and 14 treating them in medical arts or 15 pharmacological settings so that we would have 16 space; would that not be a good thing to do? 17 SENATOR VOLKER: Well, I think, 18 Senator, I'd like to think that, if you and I 19 could sit down and develop a whole plan and 20 make a decision, maybe we could do that in a 21 short period of time. But would it be better? 22 You're absolutely correct. We know that and, 23 if we could develop a whole scheme in a short 24 period of time but, Senator, the reality is 25 that that's not going to happen and the 1 reality is that there are disagreements on 2 certain parts of the law that say that it 3 really can't be done, although personally I 4 must tell you that we have made, in my opinion 5 -- I've said it, I'll say it once again - 6 since George Pataki has become Governor we 7 have made strides in this state in criminal 8 justice that in the previous 20-some years 9 that I've been here we talked about but were 10 never able to do. 11 Now, let me just say this about 12 the Rockefeller drug laws, because I -- since 13 you brought it up, I would just say this. I 14 would be careful and warn all the people who 15 talk about the Rockefeller drug laws to take a 16 look at the numbers. We have been taking a 17 look at the numbers and there aren't as many 18 drug offenders in jail as people think there 19 are, particularly drug offenders who don't 20 have any kind of violence. 21 In fact, you know we're having 22 problems in prison now getting enough people 23 in our Shock incarceration program which is, 24 you know, a nationally renowned Shock 25 incarceration program, and I was just out 1 there, by the way, here two weeks ago and 2 spoke at a graduation. 3 The reason I mention it is, 4 Senator, certainly we can look at those issues 5 although I would point out to you that 6 California is pouring thousands and thousands 7 of people into their system and, by the way, 8 we were even with California in the number of 9 inmates at 40,000 in 1980. We just checked 10 the other day. I was absolutely shocked to 11 find out they're at 142,000 inmates and we're 12 still at about 70,000. 13 I'm not -- I'm telling you 14 that, in my opinion, and I've talked to the 15 professionals in the prison system a lot, they 16 tell me this: There are fewer non-violent 17 offenders in our system today than at any time 18 in modern times. Unfortunately, there are 19 more violent offenders in our system than at 20 any time in modern times also, so I guess the 21 answer is, sure, we can look at the 22 Rockefeller drug laws but in talking about an 23 excellent comprehensive approach, this is the 24 next step in that approach, in my opinion, and 25 I think the Greishabers would agree, I think 1 Senator Bruno would agree, and I think most of 2 the people in this chamber will agree and we 3 hope eventually that the Senator will agree 4 also. 5 SENATOR WALDON: Would the 6 Senator yield again, please? 7 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 9 Senator continues to yield. 10 Senator Waldon. 11 SENATOR WALDON: Senator, you 12 created a nice segue for me into the next area 13 that I wished to address, and that is the 14 explosion almost exponentially of the prison 15 system, not necessarily in New York State as 16 in California, as in Texas, where their 17 ability to govern, not govern the prison 18 system but their ability to govern the state 19 is being undermined by the drain on resources 20 of maintaining the prison system. It is my 21 anticipation that this proposal, if it becomes 22 law, will create the same kind of driving 23 force regarding our budget. 24 If you recall, Senator Volker, 25 and I'm sure you do, much better than most, 1 that the prison budget since 1988 has expanded 2 by 76 percent. Our education budget has gone 3 up by about 25 percent. Wouldn't we do 4 better, and I realize this is a very 5 bifurcated -- by the way, I have the data here 6 for J.R. and yourself, it's very accurate, 7 wouldn't we do better if I were to spend our 8 money more on education, less on prisons, take 9 some steps which would free up the space in 10 the prisons regarding the Rockefeller drug law 11 and give those people who are violent felony 12 offenders who are not career criminals and who 13 are not going to be career criminals an 14 opportunity not to serve time to the extent 15 that this proposal requires? 16 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, you 17 and I have talked about these issues many 18 times. I don't know where that 76 percent 19 comes from. We'll look into it, but I got to 20 tell you something else. We spend -- what do 21 we spend, I think on the whole criminal 22 justice system in this state we spend about 23 2.3 billion, something in that nature. The 24 total amount that we spend on education is - 25 in fact, the total amount we spend on 1 education in this state is over 30 billion. 2 There is no comparison, and the -- and, 3 Senator, I mean I've listened to some of that, 4 and the expansion of some of the costs, and I 5 think they're probably talking about the fact 6 that we've built some new prisons, but the 7 actual operating cost of prisons has not gone 8 up anything compared to what we've spent on 9 secondary education. 10 I can assure you, I mean we 11 just spent 863 million additional dollars, for 12 instance, in -- on secondary schools in this 13 state just this year alone, and that doesn't 14 include, by the way, lottery money which is 15 going into education, and some of it is also 16 going in for the -- for the so-called STAR 17 program indirectly. 18 But, Senator, I would agree 19 with you, if we -- and we have been looking 20 for the so-called non-violent felony 21 offenders, but Senator, this bill is not going 22 to break the back of the prison system any 23 more than the second felony offender bill we 24 passed back in 1995 is, and, of course, keep 25 in mind this is, the main impact of this bill 1 is going to be somewhat years down the line 2 anyways and we're anticipating, you know, some 3 impact because it will be the -- you're 4 already going to be sentencing these people to 5 prison in the first place. It's just that 6 we're going to be sentencing them a little 7 longer, and then we're going to have 8 post-release supervision. All the Dooms Day 9 stories of what's going to happen if we pass 10 second violent felony offender has not 11 happened. In fact, as you know, overall the 12 crime rate has continued to drop, and actually 13 we're doing better and when we get these new 14 prisons in place we hope we'll be able to get 15 rid of double bunking and all the rest of the 16 things and we will be able to treat people 17 better, treat from the standpoint of education 18 and all the rest of the things, and we'll be 19 able to deal with inmates in a better way. 20 Are we going to be like Texas 21 and California? No way, and the Governor knows 22 that. I think the Senate is convinced of that 23 and I think even the Assembly in the end is 24 going to agree with that. 25 SENATOR WALDON: Madam 1 President -- I'm sorry. Mr. President, if I 2 may. Thank you very much, Senator Volker. If 3 I may, on the bill. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 5 Senator Waldon, on the bill. 6 SENATOR WALDON: First, I am 7 extremely sensitive to the family which is in 8 the gallery, and I hope that nothing here 9 during this debate has unduly stressed you or 10 angered you. I apologize if it did. It was 11 not intended. I was trying to establish some 12 themes, through the dialogue with Senator 13 Volker, specifically on this issue. 14 I think that sometimes in the 15 realm of human experience, those who are 16 characterized as first-time violent felony 17 offenders are not equal. If there are 10,000 18 arrests for violent felony offenders in one 19 year, someone in that mix should have an 20 opportunity for parole. We're not talking 21 about people who take lives. As you know, 22 Senator, from our experience, both working on 23 the Codes Committee, that those who are really 24 bad people, I believe should be in jail and 25 never out, but sometimes systemically someone 1 is different than the mix, but what you have 2 by definition they will receive the same kind 3 of sentence as those in the mix and the 4 purpose of our discussion from my side of the 5 table is to elucidate that if somehow someone 6 should fall through the cracks of what you're 7 proposing, I provide judicial discretion 8 because the judge is in the courtroom hearing 9 the case or simply because the person is not 10 equal to the kind of behavioral pattern which 11 all others falling under that particular 12 definition should fall. 13 Secondly, and this is my 14 perennial, I think that we spend money 15 foolishly in this state. I believe that, if 16 we had the emphasis on education, that we 17 could turn this prison thing and this criminal 18 justice thing around. An example, and we've 19 discuss this before, the Schools Under 20 Registration Review in those Assembly 21 Districts in the City and around the state - 22 Syracuse, Buffalo, even here in Albany, where 23 80 percent of all of the young people who end 24 up in our prisons stacked like cordwood, 25 uneducated, where they come from, if we were 1 smart money, in my opinion, we'd take the 2 massive resources and put into those schools 3 to ensure that they have above a reading level 4 education because all of the data proves that 5 those who are educated do not return to prison 6 so fast. Four or five percent of those who 7 obtain Master's degree -- if I'm correct in my 8 memory, and I may be wrong -- never return to 9 prison as a recidivist but those who have 10 little or no education, who are out of prison 11 for any reason, either having fulfilled their 12 obligation, on parole, on a release from 13 Willard or wherever, 45-plus percent of them 14 are back within three years. 15 So I think that in terms of our 16 allocation of resources, our philosophical 17 approach to this, we're shortsighted. We're 18 pennywise and pound foolish. 19 What I believe we ought to do, 20 in my opinion -- in my opinion -- is to change 21 the direction that we're going in terms of 22 construction of prison cells, to change our 23 philosophy in terms of treating those who may 24 be an exception to the rule, those who are 25 truly repeat, repeat, repeat violent offenders 1 should go away and stay away, but someone 2 makes a mistake and they should not be treated 3 the same. 4 Let me create an hypothetical 5 for you. A mother with children who is in an 6 abused relationship and some guy has abused 7 her, her husband, for quite some time and one 8 day she crosses the line. Should she be 9 treated the same as someone who puts a gun in 10 his hand, goes into a bank, guns down the 11 people in the bank and robs a bank? I think 12 not, and that's the point I'm trying to make. 13 There should be some ability for us to create 14 an exception to where we are. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 16 De... 17 SENATOR WALDON: I want to - 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 19 Senator DeFrancisco, why do you rise? 20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I want to 21 ask Senator Waldon a question if he would, 22 please. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Sure. 24 Senator, do you yield? 25 SENATOR WALDON: Absolutely. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 2 Senator Waldon yields. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 4 Waldon, each of the people who are resentenced 5 under this new law, if it becomes law, are 6 treated the same way after the sentence. 7 They'd have to serve six-sevenths, but isn't 8 it true that, under your example, the judge, 9 prior to sentencing, can take into account the 10 circumstances of the crime, including the 11 woman who may be at her last possible rational 12 moment before a violent act is committed? 13 Wouldn't the sentencing judge have the power 14 to treat her differently by framing her 15 sentence to be a lesser sentence than the 16 sentence might be for someone who premeditated 17 that particular murder and, therefore, be 18 treated differently? 19 SENATOR WALDON: Absolutely. 20 Senator DeFrancisco is on the money, and your 21 assessment and analysis is absolutely 22 correct. 23 Let me finish if I may, Mr. 24 President. 25 I would encourage the people in 1 this chamber today to do what they must in 2 terms of their conscience. I am going to vote 3 for the bill, but I don't want my vote to be 4 seen as not wanting to see that the predators 5 in our society are not dealt with correctly. 6 Someone who takes a life should not be on our 7 streets; some people make a mistake, and I 8 think to have the provision for every 9 first-time violent felony offender to face 10 this proposal is a mistake, and let me close 11 by saying again I beseech you, my colleagues, 12 to take the resources of this state and to put 13 them where they will be better used and will 14 create the best potential of our state which 15 is in the education of our children, 16 especially in those Schools Under Registration 17 Review in our inner cities and in those 18 Assembly Districts where 80 percent of all the 19 people in our prisons originate. 20 Thank you very much, Mr. 21 President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 23 Senator Nozzolio. 24 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, I 25 rise not just as a Senator but also as chair 1 of the Crime and Corrections Committee, and I 2 must tell you that this debate has stimulated 3 many thoughts. 4 The first is from the victims' 5 perspective a sensitivity that we must have, a 6 consideration that we must have. For these 7 last 30 years in this state, the scales of 8 justice have been tipping. They have tipped 9 on the side of protecting the rights of those 10 who are accused of crime, criminal conduct. 11 Those scales have tipped and tipped and tipped 12 until I believe they have been tipped over, in 13 recognizing and protecting and focusing on the 14 rights of the accused, of the criminal, and 15 emphasizing the "criminal" in the criminal 16 justice equation, but not recognizing the 17 victim and the sense of justice which should 18 prevail in protecting victims' rights. 19 It's extremely unfortunate, Mr. 20 President, that a tragedy, a very visible 21 tragedy, would bring attention finally to our 22 victim and victims' rights. I applaud Senator 23 Volker for having the courage and the wisdom 24 to push this legislation; particularly my 25 thanks to Senator DeFrancisco for his 1 recognition of the fact that something needed 2 to be done, and the way he has pushed this 3 bill through this house. 4 My reactions to Senator 5 Waldon's comments about the need for a 6 comprehensive policy, absolutely we should 7 have a comprehensive policy. We should pass 8 comprehensive legislation, but I dare say it 9 is a cop-out by this Legislature to think that 10 really all crime could be solved with one 11 bill, that the entire criminal justice system 12 could be changed by one piece of legislation; 13 but we are stating today in Senator Volker's 14 legislation that by calling for an absolute 15 zero tolerance to be imposed on all muggers, 16 murderers and rapists is, I dare say, not a 17 revolutionary act. It's something that should 18 have been done a long, long time ago. 19 But this step is an important 20 step, and as I applaud the sponsors, as I 21 thank also our Senate Majority Leader, that 22 this step puts us on a goal of ending parole 23 for first-time violent offenders and by 24 ensuring those who have exhibited heinous 25 behavior, who have taken life, who have raped, 1 who have threatened and injured, that those in 2 our society will be told that society -- those 3 in society commit those crimes will be told 4 very clearly that their actions will not be 5 tolerated. 6 When it comes to committing a 7 violent crime, cutting a deal for early 8 release from prison must never be an option, 9 and Governor Pataki in his very first act as 10 our Governor, ended what was called work 11 release for those who have committed violent 12 crimes, and work release as we have sat 13 through hearings on that in 1994, work release 14 was being used by the then Cuomo 15 administration to let violent felons out of 16 jail early in an effort to ignore the fact 17 that we needed to incarcerate them and it was 18 used as a pressure relief valve on our prison 19 system, but it wasn't doing anything for our 20 citizens because it was putting violent 21 criminals out on the streets without serving 22 much more than a very fraction of their 23 sentence. 24 This Legislature, again through 25 Senator Volker's leadership, through the 1 Governor's direction, took very courageous 2 steps in increasing penalties for violent 3 felons; but unfortunately, we have a 4 significant loophole in the law so those who 5 are engaged in parole, in reviewing the 6 performance of those who are incarcerated, 7 look at the record and see, did Inmate A 8 follow proper prison procedure? Did he 9 participate in counseling? Did he take 10 additional education or any type of education 11 credits? In a sense, did that inmate do 12 anything to rehabilitate themselves? 13 And if the answer was "no", in 14 spite of the fact that they were a murderer, a 15 robber, a rapist, they would be let out of 16 prison because the parole folks had their 17 hands tried. That is exactly what took place 18 in the alleged incident -- in the incident by 19 the alleged perpetrator that we are discussing 20 today. 21 By ending parole as we know it 22 for first-time violent offenders, we are 23 taking a significant step towards protecting 24 the citizens of this state. I believe that we 25 need to continue to right-size our prison 1 system and to those who have said that we must 2 do more to deal with the non-violent drug 3 offender, I dare say just look to the record, 4 look to what this legislator -- Legislature 5 supported. Look to what Governor Pataki 6 created in the formation of the Willard Drug 7 Treatment Center, a prison dedicated to 8 violent -- to those who are non-violent 9 offenders, but drug users and alcohol abusers, 10 substance abusers. 11 Don't try to hide behind the 12 fact that non-violent drug offenders are in 13 our prison to say we shouldn't do anything 14 against those who are violent, and also don't 15 forget the record that says that we have 16 created in New York State the first of its 17 kind, I dare say in the nation, a prison for 18 those who are non-violent drug offenders. 19 Mr. President, my colleagues, 20 let me reiterate a special thanks to Senator 21 Volker and Senator DeFrancisco for pushing 22 this good legislation; thank Governor Pataki 23 for recognizing the fact that this policy must 24 be implemented, and if it is implemented we 25 will see further dramatic cuts in our crime 1 rate. We must do it to bring those scales of 2 justice back, back up to recognizing the 3 victim, and let's focus on the victim's 4 justice and not just the criminal's justice. 5 Thank you, Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: We'd 7 ask the members' indulgence for a minute so 8 the stenographer can change paper, please. 9 Senator Paterson. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 11 Mr. President. 12 If Senator Volker would yield 13 for a few questions. 14 SENATOR VOLKER: Certainly. 15 SENATOR PATERSON: Senator, I 16 want to discuss a little further the issues 17 raised by Senator Gold when he talked about 18 the discretionary aspect of the Parole Board, 19 the discretionary parole as opposed to the 20 responsibilities of the Department of 21 Corrections. 22 The perpetrator in this 23 particular case, the murderer of Jenna, which 24 brings us here to discuss what we're terming 25 "Jenna's Law", was sentenced for an stabbing 1 on January 16th of 1991. That would have 2 enabled under the two-thirds rule, he received 3 parole. I guess, in 1995 in the beginning of 4 it. Had he served the six-sevenths of the 5 term, what Senator Gold is saying, since he 6 already had two months jail time credit, he 7 would have been released in November of 1996 8 or thereabouts, and so you disagreed with 9 Senator Gold's contention, but I want to 10 restate it and get your opinion on it with 11 some specificity, because I'm contending that 12 sentenced to seven years in 1991, he would 13 have been out even had he served the amount of 14 time as it is designated under the bill that's 15 before us right now. 16 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator, I 17 think that's what the confusion here is and I 18 think Mr. Greishaber talked about that also, 19 is that remember, by the way, there are - 20 there are ranges here, and we were just 21 talking about this. It's not as if a person 22 gets sentenced under this statute that they 23 necessarily -- they necessarily have to serve 24 a certain -- for instance, on B felons it's - 25 the range is 5 to 25 years; On C felons, it's 1 3 to 15 years; D felons 2 to 7 years, and on E 2 felons, it's 1-1/2 to 4 years. 3 The judge has the ability to 4 set a sentence. If he sets the top sentence, 5 obviously then it's six-sevenths of that top 6 sentence, but, for instance, for an E felon, 7 he wouldn't necessarily have to do that 8 because he could -- you have to sentence to at 9 least one and a half but I suppose he could do 10 it one and a half for that matter and that 11 certainly would be within the law. 12 What you're saying is the 13 confusion about the conviction and as to 14 whether that person would be under post - 15 certainly under this law, for sure, he would 16 be under post... post-release supervision, and 17 that's for sure, but there was the possibility 18 that he could be convicted of, in fact, a more 19 serious crime. What you're saying is under 20 the crime that he was actually convicted of, 21 while the evidence could have convicted him of 22 a more serious crime, and I think that's what 23 Mr. Greishaber was talking about is that he 24 could well have been convicted of a more 25 serious crime because of the nature of the 1 crime and that in reality -- so he's assuming 2 I believe that he would be convicted of a more 3 serious crime and, therefore, would have been 4 serving an even longer sentence, it's true. 5 Under the sentence that he was 6 actually sentenced to, which I think is a D 7 felony, isn't that right? -- then technically 8 speaking you are right, if that were the case, 9 he would -- however, even under this bill, 10 even under the bill that we are doing, he 11 would have been under post-supervision had he 12 been sentenced identically as -- to the same 13 -- convicted of the same sentence that he was 14 convicted of and not to the higher, the higher 15 sentencing provision. So you are right and I 16 -- in fact, one of the things that my trusted 17 counsel here was whispering in my ear was that 18 we figured some smart fellow like you would 19 figure that out, that I misspoke because what 20 I was talking about is, and very honestly, is 21 that had he been convicted of the higher 22 offense which he could well have been 23 convicted of, he would then have been in jail 24 and would not have been around under this 25 statute to -- to kill poor -- allegedly to 1 kill Jenna, but if he were convicted under the 2 provision as it is here, although he would be 3 under post-release supervision he could be out 4 on the street, and that's true, assuming he 5 didn't violate or what else he did, and 6 remember, by the way, one thing I did find out 7 was he would not have got any good time 8 because virtually surely because apparently he 9 had 19 violations in prison, so I think that 10 you could be pretty well sure that he was not 11 going to get any good time. 12 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you, 13 Mr. President. 14 Senator Volker, as he so often 15 in this chamber, has distinguished himself. 16 I'm very happy that you took a second look at 17 that because we all know Senator Gold is wrong 18 enough, we didn't need him to be wrong any 19 more than he usually is. 20 But in all seriousness, the 21 post-sentence supervision which is in this 22 bill is really something that we have to go 23 back to, and I'm glad that we are going back 24 to it because in the Sentence Reform Act of 25 1995, introduced by Governor Pataki in his 1 original year, we didn't have any post 2 sentence supervision and theoretically from 3 September of 1995 until the effective date of 4 the passage of this bill, we're going to have 5 that problem that people are being released 6 and no matter how long we give someone a 7 sentence, when they leave we have to remember 8 they're not coming back to any particular 9 family roots or any socialization process or 10 coming out to get a job. Sometimes our only 11 way to have any idea as to whether they may be 12 headed back in the same direction, and in many 13 respects heading that off, is through the 14 parole system, and I'm very happy that Senator 15 Volker pointed out that we're going back to 16 that, and I think it's -- it's unfortunate 17 that we have served three years with this 18 system in place. 19 Senator Volker also referred to 20 the 22 -- I think there were 19 to 22 21 violations that this individual accrued during 22 the time he was in jail, so actually during 23 his time in prison, he didn't lose any good 24 time for those violations, but even though 25 they were second tier violations, I suggest 1 that perhaps a little more responsibility by 2 the Department of Corrections, and much of 3 that time may have been taken away from the - 4 from the convicted felon, and perhaps that 5 would have extended the time that this 6 individual spent in prison. 7 Mr. President, on the bill. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 9 Senator Paterson, on the bill. 10 SENATOR PATERSON: I would be 11 remiss representing the Minority today, if we 12 did not thank the Greishaber family for 13 joining us in the chamber. To Bruce 14 Greishaber and Janice, and to Erica, the 15 sister of the victim in this particular case, 16 we are very much enlightened by your 17 presence. You came here today hoping that 18 this bill would succeed, and what I would like 19 you to know is that your success was derived 20 long before we would ever vote on this bill. 21 Your success comes from the ability to 22 persevere, to dedicate yourselves to something 23 that you believe in, to fight back tears, and 24 I guess an enormous sense of tragedy, to go 25 forward and probably improve the quality of 1 life for all of us in New York State. 2 You will see some of us vote 3 for this bill. You will see some of us vote 4 against this bill. That is how it works in 5 our democracy. The former president, Woodrow 6 Wilson, once said in 1915, It may not be as 7 important to legislate as it is to publicize 8 those issues that affect so many people, that 9 affect lives. 10 And so what we are engaging in 11 here today, as Senator Waldon referred to, is 12 a process by which we try to ferret through 13 the issues of this particular bill and try to 14 come to an individual conscience decision as 15 to what's right and what's wrong in this 16 particular case, but in the collective sense 17 we're all together in deploring this tragedy 18 that befell this particular family and also 19 trying to find a way to eliminate and 20 eradicate these similar situations from going 21 on every day in our society. 22 This is the greatest part of 23 our democracy. This is fine. This is the 24 noblest form of democracy. The objections 25 here today are stated with clear conscience. 1 There is nothing unnatural about it. This is 2 intellectual, and it repeatedly exists when 3 legislators look through all the different 4 issues and all the different aspects of law 5 that face the challenges of our time, and yet 6 the stillness of one heart compels those 7 around it to come here to force us to see 8 what's actually happening in our society. 9 I want to thank that family for 10 being here today. I want to thank Senator 11 Volker for his work on the subject, and 12 certainly Senator Gold and Senator Waldon for 13 raising the types of issues that will 14 hopefully bring us together on a bill one day 15 that will make sure that we don't have to come 16 back here again and see a tragedy on another 17 family in similar conditions. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 19 Senator Farley. 20 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Mr. 21 President. 22 You know, I rise in support of 23 this bill as a Capital District Senator and 24 somebody that was well aware of this tragedy 25 that happened right here in this area. It's 1 not the first that has happened to a young 2 college student and, of course, Bruce and 3 Janice, who are with us in the gallery, let me 4 express my sympathy to you and to your 5 daughter, who is also with you, for this 6 incredible loss. 7 But I think it was mentioned at 8 the press conference what this family did. 9 They went on to make something happen here, to 10 make the world a little bit safer for the - 11 for young women and victims of crimes, 12 vioilent crimes, and that is the reason that I 13 rise to support this bill. It's one that's 14 time is long in coming. It's one that's 15 terribly important. It's one that addresses a 16 terrible societal problem, violent criminals 17 who are let out on the street to commit 18 violence and death to innocent people. 19 I can't say how horrible this 20 situation is, and there are other families 21 that have been -- not only in Syracuse where 22 they come from, but let me just say this, that 23 Senator DeFrancisco has risen to this occasion 24 to help the family, to meet with the Governor, 25 to work with Senator Volker, to make this come 1 to reality and let me say, it is close to 2 becoming a reality because the Assembly is 3 looking at this very closely, I would hope in 4 a bipartisan way so that we can address this. 5 They have got some other areas that they want 6 to look at here, and as we've often said 7 trying to do something to the criminal justice 8 system is kind of difficult in the other 9 house, but trust me, something is going to 10 happen here because it has to happen. Society 11 wants it to happen, and this state is going to 12 do something about violent criminals, and I 13 think that this bill is the bill that's going 14 to do the job. 15 Thank you very much, Mr. 16 President, and I would hope that everybody in 17 this chamber would support this legislation. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 19 Senator Montgomery. 20 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you, 21 Mr. President. 22 I too join my colleagues in 23 expressing a deep sense of sorrow for the loss 24 of the daughter of the Greishabers, and 25 certainly it is a fear that every parent in 1 America has, and that is that some crazed, 2 deranged criminal will come along and murder 3 their child. So I regret that that is 4 something that some families, and far too many 5 families, have to live with. 6 I want to, however, discuss 7 this legislation not as it relates to the 8 tragedy that occurred with this young woman, 9 as it has occurred to so many young people in 10 our nation, but I do want to speak to the 11 legislation as it relates to criminal justice 12 policy in our state. 13 This legislation is 14 representative of what I consider to be 15 misplaced priorities in our state government. 16 It will cause our prison system to grow even 17 more and, as public financial support of 18 education decreases, we see an exponential 19 increase in the prison population and prison 20 expenditures. 21 Every spring at commencement 22 ceremonies across the nation, graduates and 23 their families will hear how their degrees are 24 the tool they will need to pry open the 25 American dream. Yet, for a growing number of 1 Americans, even the echoes of those 2 commencement speeches will be drowned out by 3 the sound of jail and prison gates slamming 4 shut, and this legislation will only worsen 5 this sad trend. 6 We have every example before 7 us, especially and particularly in the state 8 of California. In California, in the last ten 9 years, for example, there have been 230 new 10 prisons built and two state university 11 campuses. There are now 26,000 state 12 correctional jobs -- 26,000 state correctional 13 jobs have been added to the correctional 14 system in the state of California, but 8,000 15 jobs have been lost in higher education in the 16 state of California. The California 17 Department of Correction operating budget 18 increased an average of 14 percent, but the 19 state budget increased an average of 7 percent 20 per year. 21 So are we going to end up the 22 same as California? New York's higher 23 education system has also suffered as our 24 prison budgets have grown. We are now 25 spending almost twice what we spent ten years 1 ago on prisons. Since 1988, the New York 2 public universities have seen their operating 3 budgets plummet by almost 30 percent, but we 4 have seen our prison budget increase by 76 5 percent. 6 In actual dollars, the 7 Department of Correctional Services budgets 8 increased by $760 million between 1988 and 9 1998, while the budget for New York City and 10 State University systems have declined by 615 11 million. Even though New York spent more than 12 twice as much on universities than on prisons 13 in 1988, the state now spends 275 million more 14 on prisons than on state and city colleges. 15 What are we saying to our 16 future, to the students, to people who want 17 not to go to prison, but rather to go to 18 higher education? An opportunity not to 19 engage in criminal activity. Well, our 20 Governor, we certainly know, has vetoed most 21 of the additional funding that the Legislature 22 put into higher education for opportunity 23 programs this year. He also vetoed some -- a 24 $500,000 that was in our budget and an 25 additional $100,000 item in our budget, 1 $500,000 for the Niagara Frontier College 2 Group to provide inmate education and $100,000 3 to Green Haven Correctional Facility for a 4 leadership development program there. 5 So while we want to essentially 6 expand our prison system with this 7 legislation, without addressing the problem 8 that we have with the behavior of people that 9 begins when they're very young, very often as 10 exhibited in behaviors at the level of junior 11 high and high school and ends up as criminal 12 behavior, until we are willing to address that 13 and invest in changing that kind of behavior 14 and preventing the outcome, we're not really 15 addressing the parents who are here today to 16 listen to us debate a bill that is ostensibly 17 to -- to correct what happened to their 18 daughter. This is not what we are debating. 19 We're debating a bill that 20 expands our prison system, and we know, as 21 Senator Waldon has said, that all of those 22 prisoners are going to come back. They come 23 back to our neighborhoods. They come back to 24 Albany; they come back to Brooklyn; they come 25 back to Manhattan, the Bronx. They come back 1 to Buffalo, and if we don't invest in changing 2 the behavior, as even the inmates in the 3 correctional facilities have said themselves, 4 they really would like to be able to change 5 but we're now removing every opportunity for 6 the corrections system to rehabilitate people 7 and at the same time we're extending the 8 prison sentences, and we pretend that we're 9 going to address the issue of recidivism and 10 crime. It is not the case. 11 I sincerely apologize to the 12 family here today, the Greishaber family. I 13 cannot in good conscience support this 14 legislation. It is only going to escalate the 15 state's financial drain, putting our very much 16 needed resources in an end product because we 17 have not invested in the front end and we are 18 not going to eliminate the problem that we are 19 here talking about today, and that is the 20 murder of a wonderful young person by someone 21 who was -- whose behavior apparently was never 22 addressed and, therefore, would be a criminal 23 and would be -- would never be reformed 24 because we never addressed that; and so, if we 25 donated do that, we're only going to have more 1 and more problems such as we're looking at 2 today. 3 So I ask my colleagues, we're 4 not voting against our wish and our desire to 5 correct what this is supposed to correct; 6 we're voting against something that is bad for 7 the state, that will not address the issue 8 that we -- that Jenna's Law claims to 9 address. It will not satisfy what happened to 10 Jenna. It will not -- it will not give us an 11 opportunity to really make sure that this 12 doesn't happen again, because we have not done 13 it right, and I ask that, with all -- with 14 every good intention, I understand what my 15 colleagues want to do and what they wish to 16 happen and what statement you wish to make, 17 but let's not do this. It is the wrong way to 18 go, and we're going to incarcerate many, many 19 people for much, much longer without 20 rehabilitating them, and that doesn't help to 21 do what we want to do. 22 Thank you, Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: 24 Senator Leichter. 25 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes. Thank 1 you, Mr. President. 2 Certainly all our hearts go out 3 to the family of Jenna, and I admire that they 4 express their grief by seeking a change in the 5 law, by seeking what they think would be a 6 constructive way to deal with a problem and in 7 a way that they hope will save other people 8 from the terrible, terrible tragedy that 9 occurred to their daughter. 10 But I don't think that we can 11 legislate based on one particular case. I 12 don't think that it's particularly instructive 13 to try to package legislation in terms of this 14 tragedy or, as we did a couple of years ago, 15 in terms of the tragedy that befell Megan, and 16 it's become somewhat popular now to sell bills 17 as, you know, this bill would have saved that 18 particular life, and it's to the great credit 19 of Senator Volker, and his candor is unmatched 20 in this Legislature, and in point of fact that 21 wouldn't have happened; but even if it had, 22 even if it had, is this the right legislation? 23 And we really cannot be swayed by the 24 passions, by the emotions, by the desire to, 25 in some way, relieve the pain of this family. 1 We can't do it if it's bad public policy. We 2 can't do it if it doesn't make sense. We 3 can't do it if it's not going to advance a 4 safer, saner and more just society. 5 This bill, in some respects, 6 really is a -- would be suspect under fraud in 7 advertising, because as we have seen, one, 8 under its provisions the violent criminal who 9 committed this act would have been out of jail 10 in any event. Secondly, it's sold as a 11 limiting of parole, which really isn't what it 12 does. It's sold as a determinate sentence, 13 but it isn't actually a determinate sentence. 14 So I think it's a sort of bill 15 that maybe one sees in election years. 16 Basically what this bill does is, it lengthens 17 sentences for certain violent criminals. The 18 question is, does that make sense? Is that 19 needed? Is that where we need to go? I hear 20 my esteemed colleague, Senator Nozzolio, say, 21 Well, this bill is going to right the balance 22 which has been tipped in favor of the 23 criminal. Tipped in favor of the criminal? 24 Since I've been here, I've seen the jail 25 population in this state go from 15,000 to 1 where now we're about 80,000. Senator Volker 2 says 72,000. So we've had almost a 4-, 500 3 percent increase, so I don't think in any 4 respect that over the years the governors that 5 I've served under, Republican or Democratic, 6 or this Legislature has been insensitive to 7 crime. 8 I think what we've tried to do 9 certainly is to lengthen sentences, and we've 10 done this consistently. Our sentences have 11 gone up for violent and non-violent crimes, to 12 what degree I can't say. I can't say we've 13 doubled them over the last 15, 20 years but 14 we've certainly increased them substantially. 15 Does it make sense to increase the penalties 16 that we're going to impose for violent 17 criminals to a greater degree than we do 18 presently? Where is the case? Where are the 19 facts? Let's take a look at the statistics. 20 We all know that crime has been 21 declining significantly in this state and 22 throughout the country. Is it all due to the 23 lengthier sentences that we've enacted in this 24 Legislature? Probably not. Has that played a 25 role? Unquestionably. Has it played a major 1 role? Probably not. Most criminologists and 2 penologists will tell you the reason that 3 we've seen a decline in crime throughout this 4 country, every state, New York State too - 5 some more than New York State, some less than 6 New York State -- is because of demographic 7 changes. We know that crimes by and large are 8 committed by younger people, and there's a 9 smaller percentage of younger people in our 10 society. That leads to a reduction in crime. 11 There are other reasons for 12 it. We've increased police forces. I think 13 certainly the type of policing that occurs, 14 community policing, probably has made a 15 difference, and certainly longer sentences 16 have made a difference. But is there a 17 compelling reason to be made to increase these 18 sentences at this particular time? Is there a 19 great need? I don't think that case has been 20 made. 21 I think in every -- almost 22 every crime that occurred you can then say, 23 well, if we had a different law, that crime 24 would not have occurred, and that may be 25 true. But does it make sense for society to 1 change every law, to change every sentence, 2 because there has to be some balancing of 3 social needs, and there has to be some 4 consideration given to cost, although cost 5 obviously can't be the only consideration. If 6 we can save lives, then we will incur the 7 cost, but I think a very strong argument has 8 been made by some of my colleagues very 9 eloquently by Senator Montgomery and Senator 10 Waldon, that you will save more lives, you 11 will prevent Jennas, and maybe you ought to 12 call a law after Jenna that will provide for 13 the sort of education, the sort of support, 14 the sort of community care that will prevent 15 people from becoming criminals, not that 16 you're going to be able to prevent everyone 17 from becoming a criminal. Obviously, this 18 society, no more than any other society, is 19 going to be capable of fully eradicating 20 crime. 21 But we need to ask ourselves, 22 is the only answer that we have to social 23 dislocation, to socially disruptive acts and 24 yes, to violent criminals, to continuously 25 increase penalties? Is that the only way that 1 we're going to save future Jennas? I think 2 not, and I think that's the argument that 3 we're making on this side of the aisle or 4 those of us at least who oppose this bill, and 5 it's not that we have any less sensitivity to 6 crime than those who support this bill or any 7 less -- grieve any less for this terrible 8 tragedy that has occurred, but we think that 9 to act out of the passion and emotion of this 10 particular terrible tragedy and to say the 11 only way to handle this is to increase 12 penalties, we think that's not a sensible and 13 not a productive way to proceed. 14 So I've opposed this bill, 15 similar bills in the past. I will continue to 16 do so in the future, and I will hope that we 17 could address some of the real problems that 18 beset us in our society, that we can make that 19 commitment and provide the resources to deal 20 with the conditions that, yes, create 21 criminals and, yes, create people that commit 22 these horrible crimes. 23 Certainly there will have to be 24 criminals who will be punished, and we believe 25 in that. We have strict sentences as it is in 1 this state. This bill, by taking away a 2 certain discretion from Parole Board, from 3 judges, lengthening sentences, in our mind 4 does not make for a safer society. On the 5 contrary, by diverting more and more resources 6 solely into the penal system, we think it 7 takes away approaches, takes away from 8 initiatives that could help avoid these sort 9 of tragedies and maybe, if we're going to 10 name -- if we're going to give names to bills 11 based on particular victims, maybe a bill that 12 would provide monies for education and for 13 community resources would more appropriately 14 be called Jenna's Law. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: 16 Senator Gentile. 17 SENATOR GENTILE: Yes, Mr. 18 President, as we debate the pros and cons of 19 this bill, we've done so very eloquently here 20 today. I just point out that, as this bill 21 would eliminate discretionary parole for 22 first-time violent felony offenders, it also 23 does something very, very important for 24 second-time violent felony offenders, arguably 25 the most dangerous set of felony offenders 1 that we have in our society here in this 2 state, and that is in this legislation the 3 post-release supervision would apply also to 4 second violent felony offenders, and in so 5 doing would impose the same three, five - 6 three- or five-year period or the lifetime 7 period in the case of a second violent felony 8 offender who commits a sexual offense. 9 In doing that, in this bill 10 having done that, it really fills a gaping 11 hole that was created in the Sentencing Reform 12 Act of 1985, and I say this through the prism 13 of being a former prosecutor and having - 14 having lived through the 1995 Sentencing 15 Reform Act. Although I was not a member of 16 the Legislature at the time, I was a 17 prosecutor at that time, and it struck me as a 18 -- as a serious omission that the Governor 19 and the Legislature at the time did not 20 include any post-release supervision in the 21 Sentencing Reform Act of 1995, which made 22 repeat VFO offenders ineligible for 23 discretionary parole release, and I say that 24 because what we have now created with second 25 violent felony offenders is that, whereas 1 their parole supervision at one point had been 2 up to half their maximum term of 3 incarceeration, now their maximum time of 4 parole supervision really is now only the 5 one-seventh of the -- of their sentence. That 6 one-seventh of their sentence is really the 7 maximum time that a second violent felony 8 offender is now subject to any type of 9 post-release supervision. 10 So what we have now in this 11 state are very, very, very violent criminals 12 who have served their time, but now have only 13 had a very short period of post-release 14 supervision, i.e., that one-seventh of their 15 remaining sentence. This legislation -- and I 16 would point this out to my colleagues: This 17 legislation corrects that in that now it 18 imposes upon second, repeat VFO offenders as 19 well as first time offenders, a post-release 20 supervision period, as Senator Volker 21 delineated earlier today. 22 So this certainly corrects the 23 omission of the Sentencing Reform Act of 1995. 24 As a prosecutor, as a former prosecutor, it's 25 certainly something that I want to see happen 1 and certainly something, I think, that anyone 2 interested in the safety of our citizens here 3 in this state who want to see a longer period 4 of post-release supervision. This bill would 5 do that not only for the first-time violent 6 felony offenders but the second-time repeat 7 violent felony offenders, and I think that's a 8 good thing and something that we need to 9 correct from the 1995 legislation. 10 Thank you, Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: 12 Senator Dollinger. 13 SENATOR DOLLINGER: Thank you, 14 Mr. President. 15 25 years ago next month, I 16 would have been up there. My 21-year-old 17 cousin who was ten months younger than I was, 18 was shot and killed in California by an inmate 19 who had been released from a mental health 20 facility, who had had prior criminal activity 21 in California. 22 At the time, my family was 23 deeply conflicted about what to do. It 24 happened a long ways away. We sort of sat in 25 silence bemoaning the fact that it seemed as 1 though chance, as much as any other factor, 2 had resulted in my young cousin's death. 3 So I understand, as I remember 4 those thoughts about what it might be like to 5 sit up there, and today as we've debated this 6 bill, the same time conflicts that my family 7 felt about what to do and how to do it then 8 seems to have been debated on this floor. 9 We have a society which has a 10 right to be free from violence, and we have 11 individuals that we in this country treat like 12 no other country in the world. We give them 13 rights and we respect them, and the notion 14 that's present today is how do we balance the 15 right of our society to be free from violence 16 to protect Jenna or Patsy, as my cousin was 17 called, how do we protect them and at the same 18 time provide for individual liberties of those 19 who still have rights even if they commit 20 crimes. 21 Just some quick comments on how 22 you've seen that conflict played out today. 23 Some people have said we can't use this one 24 example, the example of your daughter or of my 25 cousin as a basis for enacting law. I 1 disagree with that. I think we can use one 2 example. Certainly we, as lawyers, all the 3 time use a single court case to build a 4 premise upon which society functions. Think 5 of Gideon against Wainwright, one man who made 6 a huge difference in Prisoners Legal Services 7 and the right to counsel. So using one 8 example isn't -- and legislating on the basis 9 of that example is not a bad thing. 10 You've also heard discussion 11 today that this bill, if it becomes law, is 12 the wrong way for our criminal justice system 13 to function because it doesn't do everything 14 that we would want it to do. I listened to 15 the comments of Senator Montgomery as she 16 talked about the fact that there is a need to 17 do so much more. Senator Leichter made the 18 same comment, that we need to do more so that 19 whoever the perpetrator is, whoever the 20 perpetrator might be, isn't in a position 21 where violence becomes their reaction in the 22 particular context. 23 I agree with that. I agree we 24 should do more. Senator Waldon has spoken so 25 eloquently before on the floor of this chamber 1 about the eight or nine neighborhoods in New 2 York City that, unfortunately, produce about 3 60 or 70 percent of the inmates in our state 4 prison system. Why can't we find $200 million 5 to pump into those communities and deter them 6 from crime? I agree that we should do that; 7 but I don't think that what we're being asked 8 to do today is to resolve the entire direction 9 of our criminal justice system, to finally 10 resolve all of the problems in our criminal 11 justice system. That's not why we're here. 12 I also hear Senator Volker 13 talking -- again, this is part of my 14 conflict. We hear Senator Volker say, if we 15 pass this, we're going to deter future crime. 16 I'd point out to Senator Volker that 25 years 17 ago, almost at the same time my cousin died, 18 this Legislature said we're going to end the 19 drug problem in this state. We're going to 20 pass a law, a series of mandatory drug laws 21 that will be the harshest in the nation, that 22 will send an unequivocal message to our drug 23 dealers that drugs will not be allowed in New 24 York State. 25 I think everyone, including 1 Senator Volker, would admit they have been a 2 failure. Some would say a colossal failure. 3 But the mere fact that we have harsh penalties 4 doesn't mean that we solve our criminal 5 justice problem. We all know it takes more 6 than that. 7 I'm also conflicted because 8 I've heard in this debate, in the political 9 debate on this floor so many times, that our 10 criminal justice policy of what we do for the 11 rehabilitation of prisoners is also deeply 12 conflicted. We have heard bills on this floor 13 to take away the gymnasium equipment in our 14 gym -- in our prisons. We have heard debates 15 on the floor to take away educational 16 opportunities, higher educational 17 opportunities, from our inmates. It's as 18 though we say we would love inmates to be 19 rehabilitated, but we don't want to do 20 anything to help them. We certainly don't 21 want to be accused of being soft on crime 22 because we provide inmates with college 23 programs while they're in prison. 24 So in one -- from one point of 25 view, we're taking away the supports in our 1 prison system to rehabilitate them, yet at the 2 same time we're saying we can't be soft on 3 crime. 4 The last conflict I have is 5 again a deep-seated personal one, and that's 6 about this whole notion of violence and 7 violent crime. I'm astounded at what my 8 children watch on television. I'm astounded 9 at how often people die on television and in 10 the movies, but yet they reappear in the next 11 movie. We glamorize violence; we allow our 12 heroes to become gun-toting urban semi 13 automatic assault weapon wielders. They 14 become police heroes. They're Rambos. 15 They're Mel Gibson running around killing 16 people. We glamorize it on our television. 17 We glamorize it in the movies. Our heroes are 18 now people who shoot people, and we wonder, 19 quite frankly, why do we end up with such a 20 violence society. What is it about America 21 that we elevate violence to such a high 22 position, such a glamorized position, and then 23 the moment it happens in real life, we jump to 24 condemn it? I don't understand. 25 I don't understand how we think 1 sometimes. I don't understand why we end up 2 so deeply conflicted, but for me today I 3 resolve that conflict with one simple 4 question: Is it fair to say to someone who 5 commits a violent crime that you are going to 6 serve a longer determinate prison sentence? I 7 do not believe that it is unfair to tell 8 someone who commits that crime that you are 9 going to pay a greater price and, hopefully, 10 the message that we send, maybe not in its 11 complete sense, maybe not in an unequivocal 12 fashion but maybe the way -- the message that 13 we send is that we as a society recognize that 14 we can no longer tolerate violence. We can no 15 longer allow anyone's name, anyone, whether 16 it's Jenna, your daughter, or Patsy, my 17 cousin, we can't allow a society in which we 18 have to attach their name to a bill which 19 seeks to cure a problem that has already cost 20 someone their life and that what we will do, 21 it seems to me, is we send a message that we 22 will not tolerate violence, just as we tell 23 our children when they're young that they can 24 not be violent in school or violent to their 25 brothers and sisters; they cannot be violent 1 when they grow up. 2 I look forward to the day, 3 Senator Montgomery, when we do have an 4 enlightened policy, when we do reach that 5 social goal of providing greater support to 6 families, greater support to kids, and we cut 7 down on our socieal tendency to be violent. 8 It's going to take an enormous change in the 9 way we think and in the way we view our 10 selves. Until we get to that day, I believe 11 that we can send a message and should send a 12 message that violence will not be tolerated. 13 Today, perhaps even in a 14 conflicted way, we send that message. I'll be 15 voting in the affirmative. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: 17 Senator Hoffmann. 18 SENATOR HOFFMANN: Thank you, 19 Mr. President. 20 All too often, we're accused 21 of being inconsistent when it comes to 22 sentencing. It also has been stated many 23 times that there's a great deal of lip service 24 given by people in the legislative line of 25 work. We've all heard phrases about locking 1 somebody up and throwing away the key, and we 2 hear references to getting really tough on 3 crime, only to find out later that nothing 4 could be further from the truth. 5 We've also been slow to come up 6 with the appropriations that would allow 7 adequate prison facilities, adequate parole 8 follow-up, adequate training, rehabilitation. 9 We've been very, very reluctant to deal with 10 the true issues that affect violent crime and 11 we've also, as a legislative body, for at 12 least two decades, more like three decades, 13 been inconsistent in the difference between 14 violent and non-violent criminal sentences. 15 I read with some interest the 16 other day that three former members, three 17 former leaders of this chamber, Senators 18 Anderson, Dunne and Barclay have lent their 19 names to a revision of the Rockefeller drug 20 laws. As mentioned moments ago by Senator 21 Dollinger, these laws originally described as 22 the do-all/end-all to keep drugs out of New 23 York State have done nothing of the sort. 24 What they done, however, is tie up valuable 25 bed space, many resources and $30,000 a year 1 as the cost of maintaining -- warehousing, if 2 you will -- people who probably would be less 3 threatening to society than many, many of the 4 violent offenders who are routinely released 5 on parole. 6 I wish that the 34 Republican 7 sponsors of this bill had the guts to 8 introduce a change in the Rockefeller drug 9 laws at the same time, and it troubles me that 10 in this chamber once again we have a measure 11 coming up in an election year which will be 12 touted as a partisan solution. I want to 13 correct any misimpression that my colleague, 14 Senator Leichter, gave relative to sides of 15 the aisle. This is not an issue that should 16 affect people at the ballot box. It should 17 not be relegated to any kind of partisan 18 discussion. 19 This is a matter of earnest 20 concern for all people in New York State. I 21 somewhat resent the fact that the bill is only 22 circulated, as are most of the other bills in 23 this house, to Republican sponsors. I'm sure 24 that there are many people on this side of the 25 aisle who would have lent their name to it. 1 I'm reluctant to say too much about that fact 2 today, because it's such a sensitive issue 3 especially for a few people who are here in 4 the chamber watching our proceedings today. 5 I hope that we can conduct our 6 selves with dignity and address the real 7 issues of the correctional justice system in 8 years to come in a better way than we have in 9 the past, and I believe that this measure 10 represents a very important first step in that 11 direction. 12 I know that there is not 13 agreement with the other chamber. I realize 14 that we are a long way from making this law, 15 but I hope that all of us can be involved in 16 coming up with a reasonable solution to what 17 has become an embarrassment and a horrible 18 criminal affront to the people of this state. 19 So I will be glad to cast my 20 vote in favor of this measure, and I also ask 21 all of my colleagues on both sides of the 22 aisle to think how we can earnestly come up 23 with proposals that will address these real 24 problems, well in advance of the time we rise 25 in the chamber to explain what we're doing 1 once we get to this point. 2 The time for us to put together 3 a reasonable measure, time for us to come up 4 with a policy, is not when we're in the 5 chamber debating a bill while the cameras are 6 rolling. The time for us to look at these 7 things is throughout the course of the year in 8 the respective committees chaired by Senator 9 Volker, Senator Nozzolio, all of the 10 committees that should be looking at sensible 11 solutions, the Mental Health Committee as 12 well. 13 Let's put aside some of this 14 partisanship. Let's put aside what has become 15 all too often an attempt to capitalize on a 16 heinous crime, and let's look at earnest ways 17 that we can redeem ourselves in the eyes of 18 the public in this state and come up with some 19 real solutions to our criminal justice 20 nightmare. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: The 22 Chair recognizes Senator DeFrancisco, to close 23 the debate. 24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Thank you, 25 Mr. President. 1 We've heard a lot of discussion 2 about the Rockefeller drug laws, about other 3 ways to deal with the criminal justice system, 4 about education, about social behavior and how 5 to adjust social behavior and probably things 6 that I didn't write down. 7 The fact of the matter is we 8 are voting on one bill today, and one bill is 9 before us and there's obviously a philosoph 10 ical difference between those who favor it and 11 those who oppose it. 12 I for one think people should 13 adjust their behavior and if society needs to 14 help them do that, that's just fine, but I 15 think people are responsible for their own 16 behavior and if they violently commit acts, 17 whether it's the first violent felony or the 18 second or the third, they should know when 19 they're sentenced, whatever that sentence may 20 be, that they're going to serve the time. 21 As far as social behavior and 22 how to adjust that behavior, many of my 23 colleagues don't realize that the Greishabers 24 have decided and are in the process of forming 25 a foundation for non-violence. This 1 legislation is one part of their whole program 2 of what they're trying to do and they want to 3 adjust the behavior that Senator Dollinger 4 talked about and they want to adjust the 5 behavior that Senator Montgomery talked about, 6 but this -- the bill is needed as well. 7 The policy of what we should do 8 with our violent felons should be the policy 9 based upon what we feel. If we feel that 10 first-time violent felons should not serve 11 six-sevenths of their sentence, you should 12 vote against this, but don't use the argument 13 that we spend too much money on criminal 14 justice to vote against it because we have an 15 obligation, if that's our policy, to keep 16 first-time violent felons in jail, and we 17 should spend that money. Education and 18 corrections are not mutually exclusive. 19 The question concerning the 20 election year really irritates me to no end. 21 That's the best word I could use. The fact of 22 the matter is Senator Volker had a bill very 23 similar to this ending parole for first-time 24 violent felons that didn't see the light of 25 day a few years ago. It's unfortunate that, 1 to get people's attention, a violent act has 2 to happen which because of the election year 3 gains momentum and changes minds of a 4 philosophy that doesn't feel that this type of 5 bill is the appropriate one. 6 This is not an election year 7 ploy. This happens to be a bill that should 8 have passed a couple of years ago but is 9 gaining momentum because we have a brave 10 family pushing this bill through the 11 Legislature. 12 I think Senator Paterson, in 13 closing, mentioned that Woodrow Wilson said 14 it's sometimes better to publicize than to 15 legislate. I never knew Woodrow Wilson. I 16 can't imagine him saying that, but I can tell 17 you one thing, if he was here today on this 18 bill, he would say it's better to legislate 19 and pass this bill than continue to publicize 20 this issue. 21 I vote -- request that all of 22 my colleagues vote in the affirmative for this 23 bill. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: 25 Read the last section. 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 42. 2 This act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: 4 Call the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the 6 roll.) 7 SENATOR WALDON: Explain my 8 vote. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: 10 Senator Waldon, to explain his vote. 11 SENATOR WALDON: I'll be brief, 12 Mr. President, my colleagues. 13 A thought occurred to me as my 14 colleagues debated the latter portion of the 15 debate -- during the latter portion of the 16 debate, what might have happened differently 17 if the person who was the alleged perpetrator 18 in this event had come out of prison five 19 years later, two years later, or as a child in 20 one of those Schools Under Registration 21 Review, which means a failing school in 22 Brownsville, in Brooklyn or in South Jamaica 23 -- the area where I live now, though I grew 24 up in Brooklyn -- what would happen if that 25 person went through the criminal justice 1 system in prison and comes out many years 2 later and encounters someone where the 3 opportunity for violence presents itself as 4 occurred in this most tragic situation; would 5 the person have acted differently or could 6 that person act differently? 7 I think that the answer is no. 8 The answer is no because the social fabric has 9 not created a better person, because the 10 schools haven't taught him or her how to read, 11 because the other things which need to occur 12 to make a person a self-validated, proud human 13 being, someone who believes in himself 14 sufficiently that he will not resort to that 15 kind of action has not occurred and if that is 16 the case, then we as a society have failed. 17 There's a second tragedy here. 18 The Schools Under Registration Review are 19 primarily in African-American and Latino 20 communities. If you look at what happened two 21 years ago when the racial disparity report was 22 reported in regard to sentencing, the people 23 who are sentenced so are primarily 24 African-Americans and Latinos. Our jails are 25 exploding with African-Americans and Latinos. 1 So we have failed ourselves and those people 2 who are of color, and we have created in a 3 sense a permanent underclass in this state. 4 It is not, I believe, our intention. I don't 5 think that any of us in this chamber intend to 6 do that, but our actions have resulted in 7 that, and so I challenge you today -- I'm 8 going to vote against the legislation -- the 9 legislative proposal, but I challenge you to 10 remember what we're doing, to remember what 11 we're doing, that some young black or Latino 12 child, who could escape this circumstance, is 13 given an education and an opportunity to have 14 an enjoyable life and we fail every day that 15 we fail to address that issue. 16 Please vote no on this 17 legislation. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: 19 Senator Montgomery. 20 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr. 21 President. 22 I would like to explain my 23 vote. I understand my colleague -- I'm 24 addressing particularly Senator Dollinger when 25 he says we can't do everything with this one 1 bill and I certainly agree with that, but I 2 cannot in all good conscience vote for this 3 legislation when two weeks ago I sat in a 4 junior high school in my district with buckets 5 on the stage where the children in that school 6 supposedly should have an opportunity to 7 perform and those buckets were catching water 8 that was running and their gymnasium floor has 9 been ruined because of water leaks and we 10 could not -- the Governor vetoed the $500 11 million that was put in the budget so that we 12 could begin to address those facilities, while 13 at the same time we are asking for 100 -- he 14 is asking for $180 million to build a new 15 prison. 16 So it says to me that 17 absolutely not. I cannot support a bill that 18 will result in the expansion of the prison 19 system at the expense of the children in my 20 district who do not have decent schools and 21 who have to go to school with 30 children in a 22 room in the third grade. 23 So that -- it does not -- to me 24 it -- there is no way that I'm getting a 25 message that we need to send a message to the 1 criminals. We need to send the message to the 2 children who are not yet criminals, to say to 3 them, we don't want you to go in that 4 direction and then I can say that I can feel 5 comfortable voting for something that sends 6 also a message to the criminals. 7 Until that takes place, I can 8 never support this kind of legislation. I am 9 very sorry, and I apologize to the family who 10 is sitting here listening to this today, but 11 you have to understand my pain is based on 12 what I see happening to the children in my 13 district. 14 I vote no, Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: 16 Senator Nozzolio, to explain your vote. 17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. 18 President, my colleagues, I rise to concur 19 with Senator Waldon and Senator Montgomery 20 that our schools need all of our support. We 21 need to continue to support education and, as 22 Senator Volker said in this debate, we are 23 spending about 30 billion a year to focus on 24 elementary and secondary education. Our 25 objectives are similar, that we need good 1 schools and we certainly are spending for good 2 schools, but are you suggesting that we, in 3 terms of school, sentence muggers, rapers, 4 robbers to school? Should we sentence those 5 prisoners -- or those people who have 6 committed violent acts to school? 7 Frankly, that's exactly what 8 you're suggesting, that there isn't -- I point 9 out to my colleagues in explaining my vote, 10 there is a time and place for everything and 11 this is the time and this is the place to 12 establish a zero tolerance policy for those 13 who have committed violent crime. 14 That's what this bill does. 15 That's what we are addressing, and that's why 16 it makes such good sense to support it. 17 With all due respect to my 18 colleagues, I don't think you want muggers, 19 rapers -- rapists or murderers sentenced to 20 school. That's what you're suggesting. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: 22 Senator Mendez, to explain her vote. 23 SENATOR MENDEZ: Thank you, Mr. 24 President. 25 First, I want to have the 1 parents of Jenna to understand that we 2 understand your sorrow. 3 Secondly, I for one, Mr. 4 President, join in the pain that my colleagues 5 here, Senator Al Waldon and Senator Montgomery 6 have expressed concerning the social evils 7 that do come out of poverty. I know the 8 educational system is not the same in areas 9 that are poor like in some areas of my 10 district and theirs, but on the other hand, we 11 must have -- we cannot make excuses for one 12 simple thing, and that is that a violent 13 felon, somebody who goes out and kills or 14 rapes or finishes the life of any other human 15 being, we are not asking the criminal justice 16 system to be lenient. All that we are saying 17 is that this person has shown, through his or 18 her behavior, that it is a danger to the 19 society, to other human beings, all that we 20 want is for this person to serve six-sevenths 21 of his or her sentence. 22 Crime, yes, has gone down in 23 the nation, has gone down in New York State 24 and New York City. So by supporting this 25 bill, which in my view is a very balanced 1 bill, we are not restructuring the entire 2 criminal justice system. We are just stating 3 a very simple fact that we want to do 4 everything possible to prevent a recurrence of 5 hurt and taking away a life of other people, 6 because in the final analysis, Mr. President, 7 the state must have a balanced view on the 8 rights of those who commit violent crimes and 9 the society at large. 10 Secondly, in the argument that 11 is being given here pertaining to the need for 12 greater prisons, I will say I think that we 13 really should get done with repealing the 14 Rockefeller drug laws because they have not 15 solved the problem, which was we were supposed 16 to finish with the -- with the -- with drug 17 addiction and drug traffic and everything 18 else. It has proved to be a failure, that set 19 of laws. So we should vacate the prisons. 20 For those very, very violent 21 first felons and the issue of having them 22 being supervised after they have been in 23 prison, then it's also imperative to support 24 this bill. 25 I think that while they are in 1 prison, some of them will be able to get 2 education, realize the horrible thing that 3 they have done and possibly if they get some 4 religion when they come out, they might be of 5 some service to the community. 6 I vote yes, Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: 8 Senator Leichter, to explain your vote. 9 SENATOR LEICHTER: Yes, to 10 explain my vote. 11 Mr. President, it's unfortunate 12 in spite of the very excellent debate that we 13 had and I thought the very eloquent 14 statements, strong statements made both 15 against the bill and for the bill, that there 16 seems to be a real misunderstanding of what 17 Senator Waldon and Senator Montgomery said. 18 They did not say they want to 19 send murderers and rapists and violent 20 criminals to schools. They made the point 21 that we're not investing in our communities. 22 We're not investing in our schools and that as 23 we deal with a bill of this sort, which is 24 going to substantially increase the cost that 25 we're going to spend on correction, that you 1 would be better off spending that money in 2 communities and in neglected communities of 3 the deprived, communities that are 4 underprivileged where, unfortunately, many 5 people do come who are violent because they 6 never had the opportunities; they never had 7 the education. That's the point that they 8 made, and I think we ought to be very clear 9 about it. 10 I can understand the 11 philosophical differences about this. It's 12 been raging in this country for some time now, 13 how we ought to deal with crime, but their 14 point was very clear and certainly their stand 15 that, yes, you must deal with violent 16 criminals but before somebody becomes violent, 17 before they become a criminal, invest to 18 prevent that from happening and that's the 19 reason that they and I and others are voting 20 against this bill, because we have a zero 21 tolerance for violence. 22 We've said all along violence 23 is unacceptable in our society. We have 24 penalties. We have severe penalties for 25 violent criminals and we don't think that it 1 makes sense to make those penalties even 2 greater to spend more on correction when we 3 have particularly the deplorable situations 4 that exist in so many of our communities where 5 people grow up to be violent. 6 Mr. President, I vote in the 7 negative. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: 9 Senator Seward, to explain your vote. 10 SENATOR SEWARD: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 In my view, Mr. President, we 13 have both a long-term and a short-term issue 14 and problem that we're dealing with here 15 today. 16 In the long term, I would agree 17 with those who have spoken out for more 18 schools and other preventive measures to help 19 lead our young people toward a productive, 20 law-abiding life. No one argues with that and 21 we do that as a state. The figure has been 22 mentioned in terms of what we spend in 23 education in this state every year and other 24 preventive programs and we're going to 25 continue that and we stand together on that. 1 This bill is not, in my 2 estimation, a contradiction to those 3 policies. This bill deals with the very real 4 short-term problem, a violent crime has been 5 committed against an innocent victim. 6 These are not statistics. 7 These are real people in the state of New York 8 who have suffered from a rape, an assault, a 9 murder, and we need to deal as a society, as a 10 people, as a Legislature with that short-term 11 problem, a crime has been committed. Society 12 and our people have a right to respond in an 13 appropriate way. 14 I say, Mr. President, the 15 appropriate response is to have those 16 convicted felons first time and every time 17 serve the maximum allowed under the law in 18 terms of their sentence. That's all we're 19 saying under this legislation. That's what I 20 believe the people of New York want us to do 21 to have these people fulfill their sentence. 22 So, Mr. President, I vote aye. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: 24 Announce the vote. 25 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded 1 in the negative on Calendar Number 470 are 2 Senators Connor, Leichter, Montgomery, 3 Paterson, Smith and Waldon. Ayes 51, nays 6. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: 5 The bill is passed. 6 Senator Balboni. 7 SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. 8 President, at this time I would like to lay 9 aside the rest of the calendar for the day. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: 11 Laid aside. 12 SENATOR BALBONI: Do we have 13 any housekeeping? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: 15 Yes. We have some substitutions. 16 The Secretary will read - 17 Senator Marcellino. 18 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 19 President, on behalf of Senator Farley, on 20 page number 71, I offer the following 21 amendments to Calendar Number 871, Senate 22 Print Number 7352-A, and ask that said bill 23 retain its place on the Third Reading 24 Calendar. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: So 1 ordered. 2 Senator Larkin -- the Secretary 3 will read the substitutions. 4 THE SECRETARY: On page 42, 5 Senator Wright moves to discharge from the 6 Committee on Finance Assembly Bill Number 9892 7 and substitute it for the identical Third 8 Reading Calendar 441. 9 On page 43, Senator Volker 10 moves to discharge from the Committee on Local 11 Government Assembly Bill Number 9322 and 12 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 13 Calendar 477. 14 On page 49, Senator Kuhl moves 15 to discharge from the Committee on Local 16 Government Assembly Bill Number 7923 and 17 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 18 Calendar 624. 19 On page 58, Senator Lack moves 20 to discharge from the Committee on Judiciary 21 Assembly Bill Number 7613 and substitute it 22 for the identical Third Reading Calendar 747. 23 On page 58, Senator Lack moves 24 to discharge from the Committee on Judiciary 25 Assembly Bill Number 9992 and substitute it 1 for the identical Third Reading Calendar 749. 2 On page 58, Senator Lack moves 3 to discharge from the Committee on Judiciary 4 Assembly Bill Number 9993 and substitute it 5 for the identical Third Reading Calendar 751. 6 On page 59, Senator Lack moves 7 to discharge from the Committee on Judiciary 8 Assembly Bill Number 9994 and substitute it 9 for the identical Third Reading Calendar 752. 10 On page 71, Senator Maltese 11 moves to discharge from the Committee on 12 Finance Assembly Bill Number 9208 and 13 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 14 Calendar 873. 15 And on page 71, Senator Libous 16 moves to discharge from the Committee on 17 Finance Assembly Bill Number 10370 and 18 substitute it for the identical Third Reading 19 Calendar 874. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: 21 The substitutions are ordered. 22 Senator Balboni. 23 SENATOR BALBONI: Senator 24 Fuschillo, I would just like to comment, 25 you've done a terrific job in keeping this 1 place in shape today and with no further 2 business, I move that the Senate stand 3 adjourned until Tuesday, May 19th, at 3:00 4 p.m. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT FUSCHILLO: 6 Thank you, Senator Balboni, for the 7 compliment. 8 The Senate stands adjourned 9 until Tuesday, May 19th, at 3:00 p.m. 10 (Whereupon, at 5:45 p.m., the 11 Senate adjourned.) 12 13 14 15 16 17