Tuesday, January 11, 2005

1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE 2 3 4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 January 11, 2005 11 11:36 a.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR RAYMOND A. MEIER, Acting President 19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24 25

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(518) 371-8910 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 3 Senate will come to order. 4 May I ask everyone present to 5 please rise and join me in the Pledge of 6 Allegiance. 7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 10 invocation will be offered by the Reverend 11 Robert Hart, pastor of Sunrise Bible Church in 12 Rotterdam, New York. 13 REVEREND HART: Our Father, Your 14 word records at a critical time in the Nation 15 of Israel's history You rose up one of the 16 smallest of the tribes, the men of Issachar, 17 and for a very brief moment in time they rise 18 to the pages because they were men of 19 understanding who understood the times they 20 lived in and knew what the nation ought to do. 21 Now, when I pray that You to take 22 the men and the women that are here today, 23 they would understand the times -- You would 24 give them an understanding of the times they 25 live in and they would know what their

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(518) 371-8910 1 communities and what our state ought to do. 2 Give them the wisdom of Solomon, 3 give them the heart of David, give them the 4 integrity of Joseph, and give them the passion 5 of Paul, that they may lead righteously. 6 We ask this in the name of my 7 savior, Jesus. Amen. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Reading 9 of the Journal. 10 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 11 Monday, January 10, the Senate met pursuant to 12 adjournment. The Journal of Sunday, 13 January 9, was read and approved. On motion, 14 Senate adjourned. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without 16 objection, the Journal stands approved as 17 read. 18 Presentation of petitions. 19 Messages from the Assembly. 20 Messages from the Governor. 21 Reports of standing committees. 22 Reports of select committees. 23 Communications and reports from 24 state officers. 25 Motions and resolutions.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Bruno. 2 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 3 can we adopt the Resolution Calendar, with the 4 exception of Resolution 45. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: All 6 those in favor of adopting the Resolution 7 Calendar, with the exception of Resolution 45, 8 signify by saying aye. 9 (Response of "Aye.") 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those 11 opposed, nay. 12 (No response.) 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 14 Resolution Calendar, with exception, is 15 adopted. 16 Senator Bruno. 17 SENATOR BRUNO: And, Mr. 18 President, can we have the title read on 19 Resolution Number 45 and move for its 20 immediate adoption. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 22 Secretary will read the title of 23 Resolution 45. 24 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 25 Parker, Legislative Resolution Number 45,

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(518) 371-8910 1 mourning the death of Congresswoman Shirley 2 Chisholm. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 4 question is on the resolution. All those in 5 favor signify by saying aye. 6 (Response of "Aye.") 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those 8 opposed, nay. 9 (No response.) 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 11 resolution is adopted. 12 Senator Bruno. 13 SENATOR BRUNO: And with the 14 consent of my colleagues in the chamber, can 15 we open the resolution to the full house. If 16 there are any exceptions, please notify the 17 desk. 18 Please recognize Senator Paterson. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 20 Paterson. 21 SENATOR PATERSON: Thank you very 22 much, Mr. Leader. 23 All of us mourn the death of 24 Shirley Chisholm, who served seven terms in 25 the United States House of Representatives,

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(518) 371-8910 1 from 1968 to 1982, and prior to that served in 2 the Assembly, worked right here in this 3 Capitol. 4 Senator Ada Smith, a distinguished 5 member of this body, worked for Shirley 6 Chisholm, was a friend of hers, and actually 7 attended the memorial for the late 8 Congresswoman on Saturday, January 8th, in 9 Florida, where Congresswoman Shirley Chisholm 10 had gone and lived the last twenty years of 11 her life. 12 She was the first woman in the 13 Democratic Party to announce and run for 14 President of the United States, in 1972. 15 She staged a famous floor fight at 16 the Democratic State Convention in 1970 that 17 led in many ways to the selection of Basil 18 Paterson as the candidate for Lieutenant 19 Governor, someone who I know pretty well. The 20 problem was that Governor Rockefeller had 21 $13.5 million, and we didn't. 22 So this is a woman who I knew as a 23 child, going to different events, and met her 24 on a number of occasions -- certainly an 25 inspiration to women and an inspiration to all

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(518) 371-8910 1 legislators, and certainly someone who will be 2 missed, but whose legend and, as is the case 3 with Senator Ada Smith, whose teachings will 4 follow us in our deliberations. 5 And we want to thank the Majority 6 Leader and Senator Kevin Parker for this 7 resolution. Also Senator Hassell-Thompson, 8 who has a resolution on behalf of the Women's 9 Caucus of the Legislature, and Senator Ada 10 Smith, who served and worked with 11 Congresswoman Chisholm. 12 And we are very happy that it will 13 be open for all members to join. 14 Thank you. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 16 Volker. 17 SENATOR VOLKER: I just -- very 18 quickly. 19 I knew Shirley Chisholm also. In 20 fact, my father served in the Assembly, I 21 believe, with Shirley and also with a 22 wonderful gentlemen named Arthur Hardwick. 23 And I -- at one time I remember, 24 when I was younger, asking my father, "Why is 25 it that Shirley Chisholm is in Western New

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(518) 371-8910 1 York so much?" And he said, "Well, because 2 she's in love with a Western New Yorker." 3 And sometime later I had lunch with 4 Shirley Chisholm and Arthur Hardwick, who 5 married -- later married Arthur. Arthur 6 Hardwick was an Assemblyman and a really 7 distinguished gentleman -- I know John Marchi 8 knew him -- from Buffalo, and served in the 9 Assembly I believe for a few terms. 10 But Shirley Chisholm spent a lot of 11 time in Western New York, not only with Arthur 12 but actually with us or with Arthur Eve, to 13 tell you the truth, because they were buddies 14 also. 15 She was a very nice, gentle lady, 16 but she could be very tough when she had to 17 be. And I think her passing is sort of the 18 end of a different kind of era, because she 19 was the kind of person you would never expect 20 would be a powerful politician, but she was. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 22 Andrews. 23 SENATOR ANDREWS: Yes, Mr. 24 President. 25 Congresswoman Shirley Chisholm was

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(518) 371-8910 1 a constituent in my district, the 12th 2 Congressional District. A lot of my 3 Senatorial district is in part of that 4 Congressional district. 5 And I met Congresswoman Chisholm 6 when I was a junior in college, where she 7 spoke before our student body and encouraged 8 all the students that were in college at that 9 time to receive an education and use that 10 education to come back and serve the 11 community. And I can honestly say that she 12 was one of the motivating forces behind my 13 involvement in public service. 14 And I want to congratulate my 15 colleagues Senator Parker and Senator Bruno 16 and Senator Paterson for advancing this 17 resolution. 18 And she will be sorely missed in 19 the district, as she was and will continue to 20 be a great woman. 21 Thank you. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 23 resolution has been opened for sponsorship. 24 Any member not wishing to be listed, notify 25 the desk.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Bruno. 2 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, 3 can we at this time return to reports of 4 standing committees. 5 I believe there's a report of the 6 Finance Committee at the desk. I ask that it 7 be read at this time. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Reports 9 of standing committees. 10 The Secretary will read. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Johnson, 12 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 13 following bills: 14 Senate Print Number 2, by Senator 15 Bruno, an act to amend the State Finance Law; 16 And Senate Print Number 3, by 17 Senator Bruno, an act to amend the State 18 Finance Law and others. 19 Both bills ordered direct to third 20 reading. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without 22 objection, all bills directly to third 23 reading. 24 Senator Bruno. 25 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President,

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(518) 371-8910 1 can we at this time take up the 2 noncontroversial reading of the calendar. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 4 Secretary will conduct the noncontroversial 5 reading of the calendar. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print Number 2, an 8 act to amend the State Finance Law, in 9 relation to establishing a procedure for the 10 implementation of a contingency budget. 11 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it 12 aside. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the 14 bill aside. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 2, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print Number 3, an 17 act to amend the State Finance Law and others, 18 in relation to budget reform. 19 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it 20 aside. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the 22 bill aside. 23 Senator Bruno, that completes the 24 noncontroversial reading of the calendar. 25 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, at

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(518) 371-8910 1 this time can we take up the controversial 2 reading of the calendar. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 4 Secretary will conduct the controversial 5 reading of the calendar. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print Number 2, an 8 act to amend the State Finance Law, in 9 relation to establishing. 10 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: 11 Explanation. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 13 Bruno. 14 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President and 15 colleagues, the legislation that is before us 16 is a bill that we all in this chamber passed 17 last year. And we gave first passage to a 18 constitutional resolution that would move, 19 with second passage this year, a referendum to 20 the people in November to approve budget 21 reform that would be effective in '06. 22 So that's the bill that's on the 23 floor. This is the chapter. And this is the 24 same bill that we passed, the Assembly passed, 25 and the Governor vetoed.

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(518) 371-8910 1 So we are in a different 2 legislative session. We have different 3 members here and in the other chamber. And 4 we're all aware that there was a court 5 decision that in essence transferred most of 6 the budget powers to the Executive and 7 disenfranchised 212 legislators. 8 So this Senate 2 and Senate 3 will 9 help to create balance and equity in the 10 budget process, and we'll talk about Senate 3 11 in a little while. 12 This is the same bill that we have 13 taken up, and I believe we had pretty much 14 unanimous support with all the provisions that 15 are contained. 16 And this does not go into effect 17 till we give second passage to a resolution, 18 change the Constitution, and it goes before 19 the voters in November. If approved by the 20 voters, you then would be implementing what's 21 in this chapter, if the Governor signs it, in 22 '06. 23 Thank you, Mr. President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 25 Schneiderman.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 2 Mr. President. On the bill. 3 I'm pleased that, as we have in 4 this house in the past, we are starting off 5 the year talking about budget reform, although 6 the conversation this year, I submit, is 7 extremely different from those we have had 8 before. The situation we are faced with after 9 the decision in Silver v. Pataki and related 10 cases is not like anything we have faced 11 before. 12 We are starting a new process. And 13 I personally intend to support this bill as we 14 have in the past. The Governor is -- this 15 is -- but let's be honest about what's 16 happening here. We have a challenge to the 17 authority of the Legislature that is laid 18 before us by the Court of Appeals and, 19 frankly, also by the Governor. We have to 20 respond to it. And I would suggest there are 21 three things we have to do. 22 One is -- you know, I support this 23 bill. This would, in some people's views, 24 transfer too much power to the Legislature. 25 I'm sure we can work that out as we go

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(518) 371-8910 1 forward. There's a message here, though, of 2 support. And we have shown our willingness on 3 this side of the aisle to work in a bipartisan 4 way when institutionally our branch of 5 government is facing a challenge. 6 I do also think that we have to 7 deal with the issue of the constitutional 8 amendment at some point. But, further, I 9 would suggest that we also have to listen to 10 and work better with the Assembly. 11 Now, let's be frank about this. 12 The Assembly was supportive of this bill. The 13 Assembly is not going to support the bill that 14 we're about to consider. It's a one-house 15 bill. There are serious problems they've 16 raised, some of which I think are realistic, 17 that it gives the Governor too much power to 18 bring us in and out of a contingency budget. 19 So while I'm going to support this 20 bill, given the fact that we now have two 21 reform bills to choose from, I'm not going to 22 support the bill that follows. 23 At the same time, I would urge we 24 listen to the Assembly on another point. The 25 one thing that in the Silver v. Pataki case is

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(518) 371-8910 1 clear, that even the majority that ruled in 2 favor of the Executive against the Legislature 3 stated that we still have power to do 4 supplemental appropriation bills after the 5 budget process is done, however much power the 6 Governor has. We can do supplemental 7 appropriation bills. 8 That requires us to work with the 9 Assembly, to be prepared to override. The 10 Assembly did a bill that many people feel was 11 not -- you know, wasn't going anywhere this 12 year, to restore some very critical cuts in 13 last year's budget. And many of my colleagues 14 here stood with me, with advocates for mental 15 health programs -- Senator Hassell-Thompson, 16 Senator Tom Duane, Liz Krueger, and others -- 17 a few weeks ago when we were talking about 18 this. We were saying we need to support SUNY 19 and CUNY, we need to support programs for 20 runaway youth. 21 The Assembly has now made the next 22 step -- pass legislation, work on a 23 constitutional amendment, but also do not be 24 shy about exercising our power for 25 supplemental appropriations. Those are the

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(518) 371-8910 1 three things that are available to us. 2 I'm going to support this bill. I 3 will not be supporting the following bill 4 because, even though I supported it a few 5 weeks ago, now I've got a choice between -- 6 you know, I'm not just down to buying one car; 7 there are two cars on the lot, and I prefer 8 this one. 9 But I also would urge that as much 10 as we have to work together in this house, we 11 are going to have to work with the Assembly as 12 well to deal with this constitutional issue 13 facing us and the Governor. Constitutional 14 amendment and supplemental bills are also key 15 here. 16 So with that, Mr. President, I will 17 be supporting this bill and urging my 18 colleagues that we get more vigorously 19 involved together as a bipartisan group in 20 this house, but also with the people in the 21 Assembly, on how to address what I believe to 22 be something that has not yet reached the 23 point of a constitutional crisis but, if 24 things go down the wrong road in this year's 25 budget cycle, could well become a

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(518) 371-8910 1 constitutional crisis. 2 Thank you. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 4 Bruno. 5 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President and 6 colleagues, just by way of clarity. 7 I appreciate your support for the 8 bill that's on the floor. I am disappointed 9 that you talk about not supporting the next 10 bill. Because the next bill is what would get 11 us a budget in place this year. And the next 12 bill would implement all of the items in the 13 supplemental budget that the Assembly did, 14 which is a one-house supplemental, because 15 it's unconstitutional. 16 If we pass that bill today, that 17 supplemental, and send it to the Governor and 18 the budget comes out next Tuesday, the budget 19 supersedes any action that we can take on last 20 year's budget. 21 But if we do Senate 3, that 22 mandates the Assembly -- we want to partner, 23 of course, with the Assembly. We need them. 24 But Senate 3, by its chapter, dictates that in 25 February the Governor will send us a budget.

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(518) 371-8910 1 In February, a contingency. 2 That contingency, and this is 3 important for everyone to know, goes back to 4 last year's budget, restoring all the vetoes. 5 So there's a billion-eight, a billion-seven in 6 the budget, if this becomes law, Senate 3. 7 That's how you get the items that 8 were vetoed into law, not by doing something 9 that has been determined is just show because 10 it can't become law. But if we pass Senate 3, 11 it changes the dynamics of getting a budget 12 done this year. 13 And, colleagues, let me share with 14 you, I don't know how we will ever get a 15 budget done this year if we don't do this 16 reform package and create a condition where, 17 if we can't agree, we get a contingency. 18 I am going to share with you, last 19 year we had the latest budget in the history 20 of this state, 20 years in a row. You're 21 going to have a later budget this year, for 22 the 21st year, if we don't do a reform package 23 to put something in place. 24 Because while we need and want to 25 work with our colleagues in the Assembly, we

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(518) 371-8910 1 don't see it happening. And I hope and pray 2 that by our taking action in this house, they 3 must respond or should respond. 4 And if they don't like the language 5 in Senate 3, let them change it. Change it. 6 We'll go to conference committees immediately, 7 as we did on Senate 2, and we came to an 8 agreement. 9 Now, what's wrong with that? 10 That's an open process. It's a public 11 process. It's governing. And it's not 12 folding our arms. And it's not just 13 grandstanding. It's getting a result. 14 So, Mr. President and colleagues, I 15 urge you to support this Senate 2, which goes 16 into effect, if it's approved, in '06. And 17 we'll talk about Senate 3 when it's on the 18 floor. 19 Thank you. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 21 Krueger. 22 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 23 I appreciated listening to the 24 debate between both of my colleagues. And we 25 seem to have merged our discussion of 2 and 3.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And Senator Bruno, in his closing 2 section of his statement, actually made the 3 point that I wanted to make. I'll be voting 4 for Senate 2, as we did last year, because it 5 grew out of a conference committee. It was a 6 successful process by both houses, both 7 parties. 8 And he is right. We can make 9 changes and improvements and move forward for 10 this year if we revisit the successful model, 11 recreate the conference committee on budget 12 reform between the two houses, continue the 13 successful pattern of last year with 14 bipartisan membership, and perhaps come up 15 with an agreement across both parties and both 16 houses for Senate 3, or some variation. I 17 would suspect some variation on Senate 3. 18 Senate 2, we know, we face the 19 continuing assumed veto of the Governor. 20 Senate 3, we right now know, today, that we 21 still don't have colleagues in the Assembly 22 who are open to this or prepared to pass this. 23 So let's pass 2. And I urge 24 Senator Bruno to immediately call for either a 25 reconvening of or a new budget reform

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(518) 371-8910 1 conference, both houses, both parties, as was 2 successful last year. And let's see within 3 the next few weeks whether we can get an 4 agreement between both houses, perhaps a 5 variation on Senate 3, or perhaps a Senate 4 6 that will have a same-as bill in the Assembly. 7 Because you are right, we need to 8 move forward. But my colleague Senator 9 Schneiderman is also right: it is a new year, 10 it is a new time. The Governor spoke after we 11 passed Senate 2 last year in both houses. The 12 court spoke after we moved that legislation. 13 And I think -- and I urge my 14 colleagues to immediately reconvene a task 15 force to resolve this issue between both 16 houses and move forward expeditiously and hope 17 that this year the Governor won't veto us but, 18 rather, will join us in this. 19 Thank you, Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 21 last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 39. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 25 roll.

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(518) 371-8910 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 4 is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 2, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print Number 3, an 7 act to amend the State Finance Law and others, 8 in relation to budget reform. 9 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: 10 Explanation. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 12 Bruno, Senator Schneiderman has requested an 13 explanation. 14 SENATOR BRUNO: And, Mr. 15 President and colleagues, this is Senate 3. 16 And this fairly well duplicates the bill that 17 we just passed that would become effective 18 upon the Assembly passing it, second passage, 19 and it getting implemented either by the 20 Governor's signature or by an override in '06. 21 So what we're saying is that we 22 have to get a reform package in place in '05. 23 And this bill, you all voted for it 24 unanimously a few weeks ago, all of you. And 25 it's only intended -- we cannot put together a

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(518) 371-8910 1 conference committee on this unless the 2 Assembly passes a bill. 3 And I hope, if they don't like the 4 language in this bill, they'll change it and 5 pass a different bill, and we'll pass it to 6 the conference committee on Senate 2, on 7 Senate 3, and through a public process. All 8 of us want to open up the process. And that's 9 true reform. And the real reform in this 10 process of governing is budget reform. 11 But why are we talking about '06? 12 We're living in '05. And we have to legislate 13 in '05, we have to govern in '05. We're 14 elected to govern in '05. And we invite the 15 Assembly to join us -- if not on this bill, on 16 their version of it. 17 So I would urge that you consider 18 the ramifications of not implementing budget 19 reform this year. It's what the people demand 20 of you when they send you here -- of us, when 21 they send us here. And it was one of the key 22 issues for all of us in this past year. 23 So I would urge passage of 24 Senate 3. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Balboni. 2 SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President, 3 I am struck, as I read the two proposals, by 4 the similarity of the provisions. 5 And I think if anyone is paying 6 attention to the process itself to try to see, 7 you know, where is the Legislature going and 8 what is going to be the end result for the 9 people we represent, obviously reform is the 10 first thing we're looking at. But also there 11 are some pieces in here that are very 12 important that are similar. And that's really 13 what we have to focus on -- what is the same, 14 as opposed to what the differences are. 15 I think the independent review, the 16 budget review office is critical. I think 17 this is something that's really going to add 18 clarity to the process. But moreover, there's 19 a reality here, ladies and gentlemen, that I 20 think we should consider as a body. 21 This proposal we are voting for now 22 is, in my opinion, a superior product because 23 it recognizes something that the state has 24 grappled with for, I don't know, 80 years: 25 How do you govern this state, how do you take

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(518) 371-8910 1 into account the various needs and concerns 2 within all of our districts. 3 Now, from the legislative process 4 we all have our bite at the apple and we all 5 try to urge the programs on behalf of our 6 constituencies. But that's not what starts a 7 budget process. 8 And the scheme that we will adopt 9 in this particular measure I believe is 10 superior because to come out of the 11 contingency period, it is the Executive that 12 proposes the budget once again. And there is 13 a practical ramification to that. Let's face 14 facts, folks. The Budget Office of the 15 Executive is much larger than ours. They have 16 the ability to produce the budgets from a 17 statewide perspective. And that's something 18 that we should recognize, frankly. 19 And given the fact that the Court 20 of Appeals seems to be predisposed to focus on 21 that one element, we should recognize that. 22 Because you really have to work on this one 23 notion. If we're in a contingency budget 24 period and a contingency budget has cut out 25 things that all of us think are very

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(518) 371-8910 1 important, the only way out of there is to 2 submit a new budget. 3 And the bill that we just passed 4 says it's got to be a legislative budget. 5 That presumes that we get along with the 6 Assembly to propose the budget. And what we 7 do is we add one more layer of possible 8 obstruction for the process to go forward. 9 I believe this is a superior 10 solution to this problem. And, as Senator 11 Bruno said, it happens this year. That's the 12 message we received this last election. 13 That's what people want to see. That's what 14 we need to do now. Mr. Speaker, here's the 15 bill. Let's have a response. Let's do it 16 now. 17 Thank you. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 19 Schneiderman. 20 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 21 Mr. President. On the bill very briefly. 22 We've made these arguments before. 23 Quite honestly, I think that what we are 24 dealing with here is a good-faith effort to 25 move through a process that we've never

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(518) 371-8910 1 encountered before -- not us personally, no 2 one's ever encountered this before. 3 But I would respectfully suggest 4 that we have passed a bill, we just passed a 5 bill unanimously, we should move forward to 6 try to convene a conference committee with the 7 Assembly. We challenge them now to pass a 8 bill. 9 The problem I have with this 10 bill -- and again, when we came back in the 11 moment where we needed to make a statement 12 that we were prepared to move forward and try 13 to do something, this was the best bill on the 14 table. In fact, on that day it was the only 15 bill on the table. 16 I personally think there is a 17 significant problem with this bill as we move 18 forward with the Assembly to prepare ourselves 19 to negotiate with the Governor. We cannot 20 tell the people of this state we can't pass 21 budgets on time and we can't pass good 22 budgets -- because we can't get along with the 23 Assembly? That is not an acceptable argument 24 to our constituents. 25 We have to pass a budget that deals

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(518) 371-8910 1 with the CFE decision. We have to pass a 2 budget that deals with our health care crisis, 3 with our seniors, with the bankruptcy of the 4 greatest mass transit system in the world. 5 And we can't continue to make the 6 argument we can't do it because the Assembly 7 won't work with us. Our job is to get them to 8 work with us. And we have to work with the 9 other house of the Legislature to deal with 10 the constitutional challenge posed by the 11 Governor's approach and the Court of Appeals 12 ruling. 13 As I've tried to point out, there 14 are ways to deal with it. We should -- we 15 just passed a bill; we should move forward to 16 the conference committee with the Assembly as 17 soon as they pass something. We should be 18 dealing with the possibility of a 19 constitutional amendment as quickly as 20 possible. 21 And we should focus in on our 22 absolutely unassailable power to pass 23 supplemental bills. The Assembly has sent a 24 message they are prepared to do that. I hope 25 we will do the same.

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(518) 371-8910 1 This bill I think loses sight of 2 the ultimate goal of a good budget funding all 3 the groups that we've spoken about. Senator 4 Hassell-Thompson is nodding, and she speaks on 5 this whenever she has the opportunity. The 6 goal is a good budget, not just a contingency 7 budget. And this bill overly focuses on the 8 contingency budget which frankly, I think, has 9 put too much in the hands of the Governor. 10 If he puts out a contingency budget 11 we don't like, we're tying our own hands too 12 much. The Court of Appeals will do that for 13 us, ladies and gentlemen. Let's not tie our 14 own hands ourselves. Let's work 15 intelligently; let's put our heads together. 16 Yesterday I think an important 17 statement was made by the leader of our house 18 that we're going to try and get our best ideas 19 together and work on a bipartisan basis. As 20 much of a challenge as Rules reform is, this 21 may be a bigger challenge because of the 22 constitutional parameters. 23 So I'm urging a no vote on this 24 bill, but agreeing with virtually everything 25 else our great Majority Leader has said.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Let's go to a conference committee. Let's 2 move forward on a constitutional amendment. 3 Let's get a budget done this year. But let's 4 make sure it's a good budget that addresses 5 all of the needs of our citizens and not make 6 excuses that we can't work with the Governor, 7 we can't work with the Assembly. We've got to 8 do better than that. 9 Thank you, Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 11 Volker. 12 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 13 you know, the interesting thing about it is 14 here that I guess I've been here in Albany 15 about as long as anybody but John. Obviously, 16 John has been here longer than practically 17 anybody else. I'm talking about in both 18 houses. 19 We really know what happened last 20 year, and it wasn't this house. The problem 21 here is -- and I think we all want to work 22 with the Assembly. And by the way, I think 23 the Assembly wants to work with us. There's 24 one small problem. 25 What happened last year was not a

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(518) 371-8910 1 dysfunctional Legislature, except that when 63 2 people from the Majority of the Assembly made 3 a conscious decision not to do the budget 4 until the master was appointed -- and we know 5 that happened. 6 I mean, the problem is Sheldon 7 didn't make that decision. It's my belief 8 that the people in New York City that are part 9 of the Assembly made that decision. And there 10 was a reason for it. Politically, New York 11 City has tremendous needs right now. It's 12 not -- the school aid stuff -- the problem 13 with school aid, there's no evidence that more 14 school aid is necessarily going to help that 15 district. What it really needs is reform. 16 But that's beside the point. 17 The problem is we have a Medicaid 18 problem, we have a school aid problem upstate. 19 The business community has been fooled into 20 thinking it's Medicaid that's the big problem. 21 It's school aid that could raise taxes 22 50 percent in upstate New York, outside of the 23 City. 24 If we ever allow a judge to order 25 us -- they can order all they want. They

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(518) 371-8910 1 can't make us. If we ever allow a judge to 2 order us to transfer $3 billion to New York 3 City and implement it, we in upstate New York 4 are headed for a tremendous disaster. By the 5 way, no judge can really do that. You think 6 there's going to be a constitutional challenge 7 if they try to do that? You're right. 8 Frank Padavan and I were here, and 9 I just want to say this once, when a judge 10 ordered us to spend a tremendous amount of 11 money on Willowbrook. They were threatening 12 to take him to jail, which was kind of a joke. 13 We were ready to go to jail. Hugh Carey caved 14 in, in what has to be one of the most 15 ridiculous -- he threw hundreds of millions of 16 dollars at Willowbrook. 17 And why was it silly? What they 18 did was this -- I won't characterize the 19 judge, who was a little over the hill. 20 Geraldo Rivera called this whole thing to 21 happen. That's how long we've been here. 22 They put hundreds of millions of dollars into 23 Willowbrook because a judge said, Take care of 24 those kids at Willowbrook. We said, We're 25 going to put them in a nice facility. No, you

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(518) 371-8910 1 can't move them. 2 We put hundreds of millions of 3 dollars -- now, Hugh Carey said, I'll put the 4 money in the budget. The Legislature won't do 5 it. So he did. 6 We rebuilt Willowbrook, it took 7 about two years, tore it down and put the kids 8 out of it and sent them someplace else. Well, 9 that was a smart thing to do. That was really 10 brilliant. 11 It shows you sometimes the 12 craziness that can happen when the politics 13 gets out of hand. And we all who were around 14 at the time just looked at it and shook our 15 heads. And the media, The New York Times 16 thought it was wonderful. They loved it. It 17 was a disaster. We cannot allow another 18 disaster to happen here. 19 Last year was the greatest 20 upstate/downstate battle I've seen since I've 21 been here. And funny, the business community 22 and everybody thought it wasn't. And it 23 wasn't this house. But, Eric, I want to tell 24 you something. If 35 members of this Majority 25 decide we're not going to pass a budget until

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(518) 371-8910 1 August 1st, how are you going to stop them? 2 But worse than that, when a 3 regional issue like school aid, which is 4 politically charged, when 63 people from the 5 New York City delegation decide to do it, how 6 are you going to stop them in a democracy? 7 The only way you stop them is with the reform 8 that we are suggesting here. 9 Because this creates the 10 contingency problem. We have to do this 11 because we're headed for another classic 12 confrontation later on this year over school 13 aid, Medicaid, $60 billion in bonds for the 14 Lower Manhattan Reconstruction Corporation -- 15 which none of us talk about, which is the 16 World Trade Center -- the Jets, all that stuff 17 that the city needs. 18 We have needs too in upstate 19 New York. And speaking from my position, Joe 20 Bruno, I think, represents the whole state. 21 And we all represent the whole state. We 22 can't just take care of New York City and 23 forget everybody else. 24 So what this bill does, by the way, 25 is give us time to get ourself back on track.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Because I tell you, I think the Assembly is 2 with us in wanting to get us back on track. 3 But it's difficult, because politics is 4 different. Our people care, in upstate 5 New York, about budgets. I know the people in 6 downstate don't really care that much as long 7 as they get their money. But it's different 8 upstate. 9 That's our problem. That's why 10 Senator Bruno is so right with this bill. And 11 that's why, by the way, I predict it will 12 pass -- maybe not exactly the way it is, but 13 it will become law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 15 Robach. 16 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes, on the 17 bill. 18 I guess I rise to enthusiastically 19 support this for two reasons. One is, and 20 foremost, call me a crazy politician, out of 21 response to my constituency, who clearly has 22 said to us repeatedly we need to have a 23 different process, we need to have a better 24 process. 25 And, secondly, what these bills are

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(518) 371-8910 1 about, I believe, while I like components of 2 all of them, as Senator Bruno has pointed out, 3 as Eric Schneiderman has even pointed out, 4 this is about engaging the Assembly. 5 I agree with the assessment but not 6 the conclusion. Having come from that house 7 and that majority, they have historically 8 taken a very cavalier approach, at best, at 9 wanting to get a budget done on time. 10 What we have done today, by moving 11 these bills, in addition to responsiveness to 12 the public, is given choices, options to get 13 them to do anything. 14 And you're right, we do have to 15 work together. We may have to go to a 16 conference committee if they don't embrace 17 this one. I personally would like them to do 18 the reform that will get that in place by this 19 year. That would be optimal. But if they 20 don't, at least there's choices. At least we 21 can begin the process. 22 And I think one thing we would all 23 agree on, this is important to all our 24 constituencies. Whether it's a question of 25 degrees, whether you're from downstate,

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(518) 371-8910 1 upstate, east or west, we ought to have a 2 process, we ought to minimally have a 3 conference committee to do this again and get 4 this done right, not only in the short term 5 but on the long term. The public really has 6 demanded it, rightfully so. 7 I am going to do my part and 8 support this. And maybe we should all do 9 this: rather than talk about engagement, do 10 what we can in a bipartisan way to also get 11 the other house to comply. At the end of the 12 day, when we can only take care of our 13 individual house, what the public will judge 14 us by is what we have accomplished. And there 15 is no question we need the other house to do 16 that. 17 But this is definitely options, 18 steps in the right direction, and 19 responsiveness, positive action for what the 20 public wants. This is good for our house. 21 Hopefully the Assembly will embrace it as 22 well. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 24 Saland. 25 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr.

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(518) 371-8910 1 President. On the bill. 2 Let me, if I can, perhaps just 3 state what I think are some basic maxims. I 4 believe that before you can negotiate, you've 5 got to get folks to the table. 6 And perhaps our memories are a 7 little dull, or perhaps we've lost sight of 8 the fact that for nine years prior to last 9 year this house passed, as its number-one 10 bill, budget reform, Senate 1 in each and 11 every year. And finally, in the 10th year, 12 when the crescendo from our respective 13 districts became loud and alarming enough, we 14 managed to get our friends over in the other 15 house to get to the table. 16 And, yes, we did come up with, 17 after a long and arduous process, a bill, 18 through a conference committee, a bill that 19 the Governor vetoed. 20 When I hear Senator Schneiderman 21 talk about the fact that we have resort to 22 supplemental appropriations, we've had resort 23 to supplemental appropriations for the past 24 20 years. 25 I needn't remind Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Schneiderman, because I'm sure he read the 2 same case that I read, that -- what the Court 3 of Appeals said when they in effect amplified 4 the already strong powers of this Governor, or 5 any Executive. 6 What they said was the Governor is 7 not omnipotent. I don't have the text in 8 front of me, but that's the word that they 9 used. And they went on to say the Legislature 10 has the ability to resort to gridlock. 11 So what the Court of Appeals has 12 basically done is they've taken an ugly, 13 arduous process and they've made it that much 14 more difficult. 15 I think, as Senator Bruno has said, 16 this is going to be a difficult year in which 17 to get a budget, and perhaps it will be even 18 later. I think this ensures the session from 19 hell. The Court of Appeals has basically 20 ensured that. No way, no how are we going to 21 find things any easier this year than we did 22 last year. 23 So for me, we can talk about 24 procedural reform. That's not going to get us 25 budget reform, it's not going to get us

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(518) 371-8910 1 Medicaid reform, it's not going to get us a 2 host of other reforms that are at the heart of 3 what has prevented us from coming to an 4 agreement. You've got to get to the table in 5 order to be bipartisan. And if you won't come 6 to the table, there's no possibility of being 7 bipartisan. 8 So I commend Senator Bruno for 9 continuing the fight to make this our 10 number-one priority and for continuing the 11 efforts to get the Assembly to the table. 12 Come to the table, talk to us, let's see if we 13 can work something out. Nine years of silence 14 doesn't work. The tenth year was close, but 15 close isn't good enough in this business. 16 Let's try it in the 11th year to get together. 17 Thank you. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 19 last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 32. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 23 roll. 24 (The Secretary called the roll.) 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Nozzolio, to explain his vote. 2 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, Mr. 3 President. 4 I rise to applaud Senator Bruno for 5 taking this very bold step. Just let the word 6 go forth that this house, this Senate is 7 serious about budget reform. This is the very 8 first bill our house is enacting this 9 legislative session, to topple the 10 dysfunction, when there's no greater symbol of 11 dysfunction in our state capital than the 12 lateness of the state budget process. 13 This measure goes a long way to 14 stop that dysfunction. That I applaud our 15 conference for taking this action. And that, 16 frankly, it's time long overdue that budget 17 reform is established in the State of 18 New York. 19 Thank you, Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 21 Nozzolio will be recorded in the affirmative. 22 Senator Winner, to explain his 23 vote. 24 SENATOR WINNER: This is my first 25 vote in the State Senate, and I'm very proud

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(518) 371-8910 1 to cast a vote in favor of this measure. It's 2 been a long time coming. 3 I've served in the Assembly for a 4 lot of years, and in the last 20 when the 5 budget has been late. And I can tell you that 6 there's been no more dysfunctional operation 7 in my experience than that watching the budget 8 deadlock that we have watched year after year. 9 So I am proud to cast my vote in 10 the affirmative on this measure. I'm proud to 11 be a member of this body, seeing budget reform 12 take its forefront. And I'm hopeful that 13 we'll have accommodation with the Assembly. 14 However, I'm not so sure that it 15 will be easy or forthcoming in the near 16 future. After all, why aren't they doing this 17 as the first order of business? There is no 18 more important business for the State of 19 New York in restoring confidence in this 20 government and restoring confidence in the 21 Legislature than having a budget done on time. 22 Thank you. I vote in the 23 affirmative. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 25 Winner will be recorded in the affirmative.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Schneiderman, to explain 2 his vote. 3 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, Mr. 4 President. 5 The Senators who have spoken here 6 have made a lot of points. I would urge 7 everyone, though, we have to move beyond the 8 rhetoric that we're taking action to make the 9 budget process better. 10 I realize this is difficult. I 11 realize this may be a difficult session. But 12 the people who we represent have more 13 difficulties than we do with the budgets that 14 we're producing. We have to produce budgets 15 that deal with the needs of the people. 16 And with all due respect for my 17 great colleague Senator Volker, when people 18 from New York City wake up to the fact -- as 19 they have with the report released last summer 20 by the Mayor -- that we send more than 21 $10 billion a year in taxes to the rest of the 22 state than we get back in goods and services, 23 maybe they are entitled to say, You know what, 24 we do need some money for our schools, we do 25 need some money for our hospitals, we do need

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(518) 371-8910 1 some money for our buses and subways. 2 The way we're going to get that, I 3 think, is by arguing this out on the merits, 4 by opening up the process. We favor 5 conference committees. The Assembly will pass 6 a bill; let's go to a conference committee, 7 let's have public hearings. 8 It should not be beyond us to say 9 we can accomplish this, we can compromise, we 10 can negotiate, we can stay here as long as it 11 takes. That's not an excuse. I'm sorry if 12 this is too hard. We're here to represent 13 people in difficult circumstances. 14 Let's stop doing blame today, and 15 let's start doing responsibility. It's easy 16 to blame. Let's get to work and pass some 17 budgets that actually help the people we 18 represent. 19 Thank you. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 21 Schneiderman will be recorded in the negative. 22 Announce the results. 23 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 24 the negative on Calendar Number 2 are Senators 25 Andrews, Connor, Dilan, Duane,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, Onorato, 2 Oppenheimer, Parker, Paterson, Savino, 3 Schneiderman, A. Smith, and Stavisky. Also 4 Senator Montgomery. Ayes, 45. Nays, 15. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 6 is passed. 7 On Calendar Number 2, Senator 8 Serrano will also be recorded in the negative. 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 44. Nays, 10 16. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 12 is passed. 13 Senator Bruno. 14 SENATOR BRUNO: Mr. President, is 15 there any other business at the desk? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: No, 17 there's no other business, Senator. 18 SENATOR BRUNO: Then there being 19 no further business to come before the Senate, 20 I would move that we stand adjourned until 21 Tuesday, January 18th, at 3:00 p.m., 22 intervening days to be legislative days. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: On 24 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until 25 Tuesday, January 18th, at 3:00 p.m.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Intervening days will be legislative days. 2 (Whereupon, at 12:22 p.m., the 3 Senate adjourned.) 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

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(518) 371-8910