Tuesday, February 1, 2005

1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE 2 3 4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 February 1, 2005 11 3:14 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President 19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24 25

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will 3 please come to order. 4 I ask everyone present to please 5 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of 6 Allegiance. 7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 9 THE PRESIDENT: In the absence of 10 clergy, may we bow our heads in a moment of 11 silence, please. 12 (Whereupon, the assemblage 13 respected a moment of silence.) 14 THE PRESIDENT: Reading of the 15 Journal. 16 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 17 Monday, January 31, the Senate met pursuant to 18 adjournment. The Journal of Friday, 19 January 28, was read and approved. On motion, 20 Senate adjourned. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Without 22 objection, the Journal stands approved as 23 read. 24 Presentation of petitions. 25 Messages from the Assembly.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Messages from the Governor. 2 Reports of standing committees. 3 Reports of select committees. 4 The Secretary will read the report 5 of the standing committees. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 7 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 8 following bills: 9 Senate Print 1206, by Senator Rath, 10 an act to create a joint bipartisan task 11 force; 12 And Senate Print 1264, by the 13 Senate Committee on Rules, an act to amend the 14 Tax Law. 15 All bills ordered direct to third 16 reading. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Both bills are 18 ordered direct to third reading. 19 Senator Volker. 20 SENATOR VOLKER: Move to accept 21 the Rules report. 22 THE PRESIDENT: All in favor of 23 accepting the Rules report please signify by 24 saying aye. 25 (Response of "Aye.")

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay. 2 (No response.) 3 THE PRESIDENT: The report is 4 accepted. 5 Reports of select committees. 6 Communications and reports from 7 state officers. 8 Motions and resolutions. 9 Senator Volker. 10 SENATOR VOLKER: Madam President, 11 can we have the noncontroversial reading of 12 the calendar, please. 13 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 14 will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 5, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 215A, an 17 act to amend the Tax Law, in relation to 18 providing. 19 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it 20 aside. 21 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 22 aside. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 8, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 1206, an act 25 to create a joint bipartisan task force to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 study the legislative process. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 3 section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 9. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 50. 9 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 10 passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 12 Calendar Number 9, Senator Bruno, from the 13 Committee on Rules, moves to discharge 14 Assembly Bill Number 2489A and substitute it 15 for the identical Senate Bill Number 1264, 16 Third Reading Calendar 9. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Substitution 18 ordered. 19 The Secretary will read. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 9, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 22 Assembly Print Number 2489A, an act to amend 23 the Tax Law. 24 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it 25 aside.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 2 aside. 3 Senator Volker, that completes the 4 noncontroversial reading of the calendar. 5 SENATOR VOLKER: Madam President, 6 before we call the controversial calendar, 7 would you please instruct the Sergeant-at-Arms 8 to ring the bells, please. 9 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 10 will ring the bells, and the Sergeant-at-Arms 11 will ask the members to take their seats. 12 Senator Skelos. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could go 14 to the controversial calendar at this time. 15 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 16 will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 5, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 215A, an 19 act to amend the Tax Law. 20 SENATOR VOLKER: Madam President. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Volker. 22 SENATOR VOLKER: This is -- my 23 colleague Senator Padavan asked me whether 24 we're stuttering in Erie County, and we are, 25 sort of.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 This is -- the bill we passed last 2 Tuesday, I think, whenever it was, was a 3 1 percent tax that has been a temporary tax in 4 Erie County since I believe something in the 5 '80s, like 1983 or '84, and would raise the 6 tax in Erie County to 8 percent. 7 And incidentally, the county 8 legislature that actually enacts the tax 9 passed it today. However, they finally today 10 met at noon, got the 10 votes, the two-thirds 11 vote for the home-rule message on the other 1 12 percent, which is the second 1 percent that 13 the county executive is demanding to raise to 14 9 and -- will raise our taxes to 9 1/4 15 percent. 16 Now, they still have to pass it, 17 but this is enabling legislation. The problem 18 is that the reason we need to do this is that 19 the county executive, as authorized, shuts 20 down the emergency services or the parks and 21 all sorts of other things. So it's important 22 that we get this done as soon as possible. 23 The Assembly is -- I don't think 24 they've done it yet. I think we're waiting 25 for the Assembly. But they will pass it also.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 It's unfortunate -- Erie County, we have 2 checked and found out, has the lowest real 3 property taxes of any major county in the 4 State of New York. But it has been six years 5 since taxes were lowered, and it has not been 6 risen since then. 7 But the county legislature and the 8 county executive have agreed to raise the 9 sales tax effectively to 9 1/4 percent. So 10 everybody understands, we in this Legislature 11 hope that as of January 1, 2006, we hope to 12 have the 1/4 percent lapse, because we do 13 not -- as I understand it, we hope we are not 14 going to have to reenact it, so it will lapse. 15 But the situation here -- and 16 Senator Meier has another bill, unfortunately. 17 And neither one of us want to do what we're 18 going to do. Because we do not enact this 19 tax. I want everybody to understand, these 20 are designators. We have been asked by the 21 county legislature, as Senator Meier would be 22 the same way, to provide authorization. 23 And that's exactly what we're doing 24 here. It is not our doing, even though some 25 county executives would say it is. And we

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 realize the Medicaid is a problem. But this 2 is the way they've decided to resolve it. 3 So that's what this bill does. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Does any other 5 member wish to be heard? 6 Then the debate is closed. 7 There is a local fiscal impact note 8 at the desk. 9 Read the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 15 will ring the bill. The Sergeant-at-Arms will 16 assure that all members are in the chamber. 17 Senator Maziarz, to explain your 18 vote. 19 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, 20 Madam President, to explain my vote. 21 I just want to indicate that I'm 22 voting in the negative on this legislation, 23 because although I supported maintaining the 24 sales tax in Erie County at 8 percent, this 25 increase to 9 1/4, I should say, to 9 1/4

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 percent, is really being done because the 2 other half of the New York State Legislature 3 refuses to reform the Medicaid system. 4 They refuse to follow the lead of 5 Senator Rath and Senator Meier and this body 6 in the Medicaid -- the bipartisan Medicaid 7 reform proposal that we passed last year. 8 That has forced Erie County and many other 9 counties across the state to look at 10 increasing their sales tax. 11 The problem with this legislation 12 is that this 9 percent, this additional 1 13 percent is going to be shared with the City of 14 Buffalo and with suburban towns. Some of 15 those towns' budgets have already been 16 adopted, tax rates have already been set. 17 Those areas are going to see a windfall, in 18 once instance of a million dollars, from this 19 extra percent of sales tax. 20 This sales tax, if it was 21 implemented, should have all gone to the 22 County of Erie to offset the local share of 23 Medicaid costs that the Assembly insists on 24 imposing on counties throughout the state. 25 So I'm voting against this because

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 it's shared with the City of Buffalo and the 2 other municipalities in Erie. Thank you. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Maziarz, 4 you will be so recorded as voting in the 5 negative. 6 The Secretary will announce the 7 results. 8 Senator Ada Smith. 9 SENATOR ADA SMITH: Thank you, 10 Madam President. 11 THE PRESIDENT: To explain your 12 vote? 13 SENATOR ADA SMITH: To explain my 14 vote. 15 I am morally opposed to increasing 16 a regressive sales tax. However, when you 17 call me a "tax-and-spend Democrat," I want you 18 to remember that most of us are opposed to 19 these tax cuts [sic]. And I'm voting for it 20 because my Republican colleague has requested 21 that we do so for the benefit of his county. 22 And I will do so because he is a colleague and 23 we must help one another. 24 I vote in the affirmative. 25 THE PRESIDENT: You will be so

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 recorded, Senator Smith. 2 The Secretary will announce the 3 results. 4 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 5 the negative on Calendar Number 5 are Senators 6 Brown, Klein, Maziarz, Morahan, Onorato, 7 Parker, Sabini, Stachowski and Valesky. 8 Those Senators absent from voting 9 on Calendar Number 5 are Senators Connor and 10 Montgomery. 11 Ayes, 45. Nays, 9. 12 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 13 passed. 14 The Secretary will continue to 15 read. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 9, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 18 substituted earlier today, Assembly Print 19 Number 2489A, an act to amend the Tax Law. 20 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: 21 Explanation. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Meier, an 23 explanation has been requested. 24 SENATOR MEIER: Thank you, Madam 25 President.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 This is a home rule request from 2 the County of Oneida to increase the local 3 portion of the sales tax in that county by 4 1 1/2 cents. Together with the existing sales 5 tax, that would bring the sales tax in the 6 County of Oneida to 9 3/4 cents. 7 This is a revenue which has been 8 budgeted by the County of Oneida within their 9 enacted budget. They are foreclosed at this 10 point from seeking any other revenue source. 11 The time provided for by law for them to 12 establish and collect a real property tax levy 13 has expired. 14 As Senator Volker explained before, 15 this is a home rule request. This is the 16 legislative body of the County of Oneida 17 deciding this is the way by which they are 18 requesting to balance their budget, which 19 includes the pressures caused by Medicaid. 20 And to tell you the truth, Madam 21 President, were I county executive still, I 22 probably would have done it a different way. 23 But just as my county executive doesn't get 24 confused and think he's the state senator, I 25 understand I'm no longer the county executive.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 And so we introduce this bill. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Does any other 3 member wish to be heard? 4 Senator Valesky. 5 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you, 6 Madam President. On the bill. 7 THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed 8 on the bill, Senator. 9 SENATOR VALESKY: We are here 10 today voting on this measure for one simple 11 reason, and that reason is the fact that our 12 state government has failed to address the 13 Medicaid funding crisis. I think we all know 14 and understand that. 15 That failure means that local 16 leaders -- those in Oneida County, those in 17 Erie County and undoubtedly in other counties 18 across the state -- are forced to pass this 19 burden on to taxpayers; in this case, in the 20 form of a sales tax increase. 21 We need to say enough is enough. 22 And I will be opposing this measure today. I 23 certainly feel for the county executive in 24 Oneida County, for the county board of 25 legislators in Oneida County who are trying to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 make ends meet, who are forced into making 2 extremely difficult decisions because this 3 state government has failed to reform the 4 Medicaid crisis. But I don't believe that 5 this is the right way to fix the problem. 6 By increasing the sales tax to 7 9.75 percent, making it the highest in the 8 Northeast -- not just in the state of 9 New York, but in the Northeast -- this will 10 place Oneida County at a significant 11 disadvantage in regard to surrounding 12 counties. 13 Stores, certainly store owners on 14 county lines will be suffering lost income, 15 lost revenue as patrons seek taxable products 16 by going across county lines and purchasing 17 them in other counties. 18 Companies that consider expanding 19 in Oneida County or even coming into the 20 region in the first place will no doubt look 21 at a 9.75 percent combined sales tax as a 22 reason not to locate in Oneida County or not 23 to expand and create new jobs. And in fact, 24 research on the topic is fairly clear: high 25 sales taxes have a measurable and negative

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 effect on job creation and on investment. 2 And the short-term effect, as I'm 3 sure we all know, includes a decrease in 4 private-sector job growth and includes an 5 increase in the cost of living, of course, and 6 a drop in per-capita personal income. 7 We can do better, and we must do 8 better. We must stop passing the bill and the 9 burden on to counties across this state who in 10 turn are forced in many cases to pass that 11 burden on to sales taxpayers and property 12 taxpayers. 13 Medicaid costs have been an issue 14 now, as you all know, for years. In fact, in 15 1995, ten years ago, Governor Pataki, in his 16 State of the State address then, called for 17 reform of the Medicaid system. We have had no 18 significant reform of Medicaid now in 19 10 years. 20 We must solve this crisis. We must 21 solve it now, this year. Senator Meier, of 22 course, has chaired a task force on Medicaid 23 reform. Senator Paterson has issued a report 24 on how to reform Medicaid. The Assembly 25 Democrats have their plan. The Governor now

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 has his plan. The fact of the matter is there 2 are all these plans out there, and nothing 3 ever gets done. We must reform Medicaid this 4 year. 5 As a result, I will be voting no on 6 this particular piece of legislation. 7 Counties like Oneida and others across the 8 state can no longer be forced into making 9 these kinds of decisions. 10 Thank you, Madam President. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Does any other 12 member wish to be heard? 13 Senator Meier. 14 SENATOR MEIER: Madam President, 15 will Senator Valesky yield for a question? 16 SENATOR VALESKY: I do. 17 THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed, 18 Senator Meier. 19 SENATOR MEIER: Senator, you're 20 aware, aren't you, that the County of Oneida 21 has budgeted some $26 million in its adopted 22 budget from this revenue source? 23 SENATOR VALESKY: Yes, I am. 24 SENATOR MEIER: Well, are you 25 prepared to explain to the county executive

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 how he is to fund his budget, fund the 2 services provided for within it to keep his 3 credit rating from being cratered by Moody's 4 and Standard & Poor's if we were to vote this 5 down today? 6 SENATOR VALESKY: Well, what I am 7 prepared to do and in fact have already done 8 in explaining my vote to the county executive 9 in Oneida County is the fact that what we 10 should be voting on now is real reform of the 11 Medicaid system so that the county executive 12 in Oneida County and others across the state 13 will not be forced into this situation. 14 SENATOR MEIER: Well, Senator, 15 that's true in an ideal sense. But in the 16 meantime, isn't it true that even if we were 17 to have the ultimate Medicaid bill on the 18 floor today, that that still doesn't provide 19 them adequate revenue in time to balance the 20 budget that they have enacted? 21 SENATOR VALESKY: This 22 Legislature last year and in years past should 23 have approved real Medicaid reform so that the 24 County of Oneida would not be in this 25 situation today.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR MEIER: Thank you, 2 Senator. 3 Madam President, on the bill. 4 THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed 5 on the bill, Senator. 6 SENATOR MEIER: Thank you, Madam 7 President. 8 You know, I know a little something 9 about Medicaid. I was a county executive for 10 six years. And for six years, I complained 11 bitterly about Medicaid every year. And 12 indeed, when I had the chance, it was one of 13 the reasons why I ran for the Senate, because 14 I thought that I could maybe have some more 15 influence here on that. 16 And, you know, I was very fortunate 17 that I think Senator Bruno also shared that 18 concern, as did the members of this 19 conference. And so we formed a Medicaid 20 reform task force and we spent time around 21 this state talking to the stakeholders, to the 22 local governments, to the health care 23 providers, to the people who rely on the 24 Medicaid system. And we came together, along 25 with some participation from Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Paterson -- and the Minority did issue a 2 Minority report. But we came together with 3 some 40 some recommendations. 4 And it's disingenuous to say that 5 it's the Legislature that refuses to reform 6 Medicaid. We passed a bill last year in this 7 house that contains substantial Medicaid 8 reform. In this house. It was introduced in 9 this house. It passed with the vote and 10 support of every member on this side of the 11 aisle and the vote of every member on that 12 side of the aisle but three. 13 Now, that's a bipartisan consensus, 14 in my book. I think that's pretty good when 15 you can get people in this chamber, who 16 represent diverse parts of the state, 17 different kinds of communities, two political 18 parties, vastly different political points of 19 view -- you get every Republican and everybody 20 Democrat but three. 21 And what happened in the other 22 house? Not just nothing, less than nothing. 23 Didn't vote on a bill, didn't introduce a 24 bill, wouldn't entertain our bill. 25 And so now we tell the County of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Oneida: Oh, sorry, your budget's got to go 2 $26 million into imbalance. You know 3 something? I got to tell you, this is a home 4 rule bill. They chose to do it this way. 5 And, yes, we need to fix Medicaid. And I 6 intend to go back at it and back at it and 7 back at it again until somebody listens, 8 particularly in the other body. 9 But I have to tell you this. 10 Here's a reform for you. You want to reform 11 politics in Albany? A vote against this bill 12 is cynical and political and it tells the 13 County of Oneida, We're going to play politics 14 with your request. 15 Boy, if we could drain that stuff 16 out of the business we're supposed to do, that 17 would be a reform for you. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 19 Schneiderman. 20 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 21 Madam President. On the bill. 22 THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed 23 on the bill. 24 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I think 25 that the difficulty a lot of people outside of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 this building have understanding what we do 2 here is that there appears to be something of 3 a disconnect between our rhetoric about what 4 we're doing and what a great job we're doing 5 and how hard we're working and how much reform 6 we're engaged in and the results for people 7 who live in places like Oneida County or in my 8 district in the City of New York. 9 And I don't think there's anyone 10 here who views the legislators and the county 11 executive and the people in Oneida County with 12 anything other than complete sympathy. But 13 essentially they're here today asking to have 14 the highest sales tax in the state, 15 9.75 percent, because they have a gun to their 16 head. 17 And I'm sorry if I get a little 18 tired of hearing how great we are in the 19 Senate and it's all the fault of the other 20 house. We're here to pass laws. We're here 21 to actually move things forward. And if we 22 can't get it done, get with the other house, 23 maybe we can't get the job done and other 24 people should come here. 25 But our job is not to pass

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 one-house bills. Our job is not to trade 2 one-house bills with the other house. They 3 have every week their press conferences where 4 they laud their great reforms that they're 5 enacting, we have our press conferences, and 6 they pass like ships in the night. I'm sorry, 7 the public is tired of that. 8 Why does Oneida County need to go 9 to a 9 3/4 percent sales tax? I would 10 respectfully submit it's a lot more than 11 Medicaid. When I got here in the Senate, 12 every year you guys were passing budgets that 13 had massive back-loaded tax cuts for the 14 wealthiest New Yorkers and massive spending 15 increases -- 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, in the 16 face of an economic downturn. Fundamentally 17 unsound policy. 18 Of the twelve largest debtors in 19 the United States, half are New York State and 20 New York State entities -- the Dormitory 21 Authority, the Thruway Authority, the MTA. 22 This is a state that if this was a 23 private company, there would be a malpractice 24 action by every shareholder. But when the 25 voters are protesting, when the voters are

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 saying we're tired of this, we want reform, we 2 want to shake up the Legislature, that is the 3 equivalent of a shareholder derivative action 4 against all of us. 5 So maybe it's not a bad idea to 6 start to ask some hard questions about how 7 we're doing things. And I hope that as we 8 enter this session, we are going to do better 9 than say, Oh, you know, we're doing a great 10 job in this house, the problem is all on the 11 other side. 12 The problem is, it's our job to get 13 together with the other side. And I realize 14 it's not easy. You all are in families. None 15 of this is easy. But sometimes you have to 16 eat your pride. Sometimes you have to go 17 negotiate things in ways that are different. 18 Right now the system in Albany has 19 become well known to people around the state. 20 Everything goes in the hopper for one big 21 end-of-session negotiation. It's not working, 22 ladies and gentlemen. The budget being held 23 up for nonbudget items, gun control being held 24 up for issues that relate to social services. 25 We have made massive cuts in

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 programs, we have made massive cuts in taxes 2 for the wealthy. We have shifted the burden 3 systematically, as Senator Ada Smith noted, to 4 more regressive taxes like the sales tax. 5 And we're facing now a budget where 6 the Governor is proposing to eliminate, to 7 repeal the income tax surcharge on the 8 wealthiest New Yorkers and yet to eliminate 9 the exemption for sales tax for clothing sales 10 under $110. 11 That's the direction we've been 12 going in in this state since I've been here. 13 And these budgets have been passed with the 14 support of many of my colleagues here today. 15 So let's not pretend this doesn't 16 have anything to do with us. The first step 17 in solving a problem is to recognize you've 18 got a problem. And every week we're here and 19 we hear this refrain, We're wonderful; it's 20 the Assembly. 21 Our job is to pass laws, not 22 one-house bills, and not to just play this 23 blame game. I assure you there are similar 24 comments going on in the other house that are 25 equally useless to solving the problems of the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 people of this state. 2 So this is a bad, bad tax increase. 3 Some of us will support it holding our nose. 4 Some may say, you know what, I have to send a 5 protest any way I can, I'm voting no -- as 6 did, I believe, quite a few members of the 7 Assembly. I think all the Assembly 8 Republicans in this area voted no on this. So 9 you send messages however you can. 10 But the big message is this. The 11 voters in this state are tired of this 12 gridlock, they're tired of an increasingly 13 regressive state that doesn't deliver the 14 services they deserve for the taxes they pay. 15 So let's not pretend this doesn't have to do 16 with us. 17 I'm going to vote for this bill. I 18 understand what Senator Meier is saying. If 19 the City of New York comes here with bills to 20 change its laws, I hope we'll be equally 21 receptive whether it relates to rent control 22 or changes in our own taxes. 23 But let's not play this game where 24 we pretend the Senate is up on a hill shining 25 in light and the problems lie elsewhere. We

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 have work to do here. Our job is to pass 2 laws. If we can't do the job, the public 3 wants someone here who can. 4 Thank you, Madam President. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Meier. 6 SENATOR MEIER: Thank you, Madam 7 President. 8 At the risk of changing Senator 9 Schneiderman's mind about his vote, I find 10 both the response and the responder 11 interesting. Senator Schneiderman, you see, 12 was one of the three people who voted no on 13 the Medicaid reform bill that passed through 14 here last year with nearly unanimous 15 bipartisan support. 16 I'm the last guy in the world that 17 you're going to see stand here and say that 18 we're perfect or what we do here is perfect 19 and that everything that's bad about this town 20 resides in the opposite chamber. We're not 21 talking about generalities; we're talking 22 about the specifics of Medicaid reform. 23 And last year we introduced a bill, 24 we voted for it over here, all but three of 25 our Democrat colleagues voted for it. We did

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 something. We did something. And part of the 2 thing that we did was we were able to achieve 3 some bipartisan consensus. And I think it is 4 not being partisan and it is being an 5 accurate, objective observer to point out that 6 the other body was not even able to introduce 7 a bill, let alone pass one. 8 And so on this issue it would be 9 nice if they would do so. Senator Hannon, 10 Senator Rath and others, we're going to work 11 on another package this year. It would be 12 nice if the other body could get a bill to the 13 floor and pass it. Maybe we could even, in a 14 new spirit around this town, get together in a 15 conference committee and make it possible for 16 us to sunset some of these sales tax 17 increases. 18 I have a hard time, though, I must 19 say, telling people with a valid home-rule 20 request that, no, Albany knows best and 21 regardless of who's at fault, why don't you 22 wait around until we decide what to do with 23 Medicaid. It's a home-rule request. I'd ask 24 my colleagues to support it. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Volker. 2 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, I 3 normally don't get into these political 4 debates. 5 (Laughter.) 6 SENATOR VOLKER: But let me point 7 out something. Senator Valesky, you weren't 8 here in '97 when we did a substantial Medicaid 9 reform here. In fact, the result of the 10 legislation, a million people went off of 11 welfare. I'm told that 100,000 people went 12 off in a matter of a few months when we did 13 fingerprinting here. It's amazing, they just 14 dematerialized. Mostly in New York City, by 15 the way. That never was -- The New York Times 16 somehow missed that, and a lot of things. 17 Actually, we had a complete dip in 18 Medicaid in '97, '98. And during that time, 19 County Executive Joel Giambra in Erie County 20 cut real property taxes by over 30 percent. 21 Now, Nassau, which was run at the 22 time by Republicans, they didn't do anything. 23 In fact, they just kept spending. A lot of 24 counties did. In fact, we don't even think 25 they enacted some of the reforms that were

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 done here, by the way. 2 But what happened is 2001 came, 3 9/11. And all of a sudden, after 9/11, 4 Medicaid started cresting again. But I must 5 tell you, there's a difference in Medicaid's 6 crest now than it was back in the 1990s. It 7 is mostly wealthy Medicaid, which most people 8 don't realize -- nursing homes, long-term 9 care, et cetera. We know that. We've got to 10 deal with it. 11 The Assembly, you can say all you 12 want about the Assembly, 63 people held the 13 budget hostage in New York City because of 14 school aid until August. Now, you can tell us 15 that we should negotiate. We'd have to 16 negotiate with guns. I mean, how do you 17 negotiate when people won't listen to you? 18 This house has tried to do Medicaid 19 reform for years. We know it's a tough 20 New York City issue. We know that. But I 21 have to tell you, it's disingenuous to say 22 that this house is more at fault or is as much 23 at fault when we've been trying to do 24 something. 25 And I want to tell you something.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 The Brennan Institute is a New York City 2 institution trying to help New York City. We 3 know -- I know that. I realize that we can 4 talk all we want about this nonsense about, 5 you know, what we're talking about here. But 6 this house -- and by the way, you there on the 7 Codes Committee, and I said it to everybody, 8 we had the most successful criminal justice 9 year last year in my time. We passed major 10 legislation. 11 My good friend Sheldon Silver, I 12 think the reason he's doing this death penalty 13 thing now, he's trying to recoup some of his 14 friends who were pretty upset at some of that 15 legislation. It's pretty tough legislation. 16 So he's now trying to show, I think, how tough 17 he is against crime. But -- I mean on the 18 death penalty. 19 The death penalty, The New York 20 Times is pushing the death penalty and they're 21 opposed to it and they're trying to make it 22 into some sort of a -- you're going to get a 23 chance, by the way, on the death penalty very 24 soon, because we're going to do the fix here. 25 The Governor is going to get it to us. He

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 will, very shortly, and we're going to do it. 2 And we'll see how the Assembly stands up. 3 That's up to them. 4 But I just want everybody to know, 5 you can say all you want about this house, but 6 Democrats and Republicans here have got 7 together. That hasn't happened in the other 8 house. They're friends of mine and all that. 9 But this house has been ready to reform 10 Medicaid, it's been ready to deal with school 11 aid, it's been ready to deal with all those 12 kinds of things. And yet we have not been 13 able to successfully convince the other house 14 to do that. That's too bad. 15 But don't accuse us of sitting here 16 doing nothing. That's silly. I mean, that's 17 what, unfortunately, some people in the 18 Business Council have done. 19 And by the way, Eric, I didn't 20 realize that cutting the estate tax for 21 middle-income people was for wealthy people. 22 I didn't realize that getting rid of the gift 23 tax was for wealthy people. I guess I didn't 24 realize that getting rid of corporate taxes 25 and bringing some of them down and all those

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 different taxes we've done -- by the way, we 2 have cut more taxes in this state than any 3 state in the union ever has. And that's true. 4 But we, until 9/11, until we got hit by 9/11, 5 we were in very good shape. 6 By the way, one more thing I want 7 to say. The Thruway Authority is not a 8 taxpayer's expense. The entire debt of the 9 Thruway Authority, like a lot of other of 10 those institutions, are paid for out of 11 revenue and they're paid for from the tolls. 12 Even, by the way, UDC. A lot of UDC debt is 13 paid for out of revenues from the facilities 14 that were set up by UDC. It's something that 15 no one pays a lot of attention to. A lot of 16 our debt is not paid for by taxpayers. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 18 Senator LaValle. 19 SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you, Mr. 20 President. 21 I think this is probably the first 22 time that I have gotten up and talked about a 23 sales tax bill in a county other than Suffolk. 24 But I think there are a couple of things that 25 were said in this debate that I think we need

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 to talk about, that need to be reinforced. 2 Senator Meier, as a colleague in 3 this chamber, along with Senator Rath and 4 Senator Hannon, have probably done more to 5 advance Medicaid reform than anyone else. 6 They held hearings and meetings around this 7 state and worked doggedly to try and bring 8 about change. I think it's been mentioned 9 several times that Senator Paterson was part 10 of those deliberations. 11 And Senator Meier, as he said in 12 his remarks, knows firsthand, being a county 13 executive, what it is and what the impact of 14 Medicaid. And I think he brought to the table 15 some of the recommendations on how we reform 16 the system that could very tangibly help the 17 counties. 18 And this house did, as he said, 19 pass -- with but, what, three negative 20 votes -- legislation. And I think the hope 21 and the expectation was that after all of that 22 work holding hearings and meetings, meeting 23 with stakeholders, that we would have a 24 positive result. 25 The thing that was upsetting -- and

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 I think we have to evaluate some of the words 2 that we use. Senator Schneiderman, when you 3 use the word "disconnect" in talking about the 4 process, I take umbrage with that. 5 Because the process is that the 6 county executive and the county legislature in 7 Oneida County are elected by the people in 8 Oneida County. They have a debate and a 9 dialogue over how they are going to deal with 10 their budget. They talk about and debate 11 whether they're going to make cuts in 12 programs, whether they're going to raise real 13 property taxes. 14 And so, as has been said by Senator 15 Volker and Senator Meier, they have made a 16 request of this body, under our constitution 17 and our laws, that they be -- that they can 18 move forward and enact this tax. We are not 19 doing it because we believe this is the best 20 methodology; they, locally, have made these 21 judgments and have asked this house and the 22 other house and the Governor to go along with 23 their wishes. 24 So I don't know how that's a 25 disconnect. That is very much a connect in

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 terms of our process, our constitution, and 2 our law. 3 And we just can't be frivolous and 4 use words like "dysfunction," "disconnect" and 5 hope that they're going to connect someplace 6 out there. We are trying, both individually 7 and collectively, to build respect for 8 ourselves and our institution. And our 9 institution is the Senate of the State of 10 New York. And it's important that we keep our 11 eye on that ball. 12 Now, we are certainly, through our 13 Majority Leader, Minority Leader, and as 14 individual members, doing everything possible 15 to build a connection wherever possible with 16 the other house and with the Executive. 17 Because as we all know, our process has three 18 components and three parts to it. And it has 19 to come together like a good play at the end 20 where everyone can come out on the stage and 21 take a bow that we've brought closure and 22 resolution. 23 So I really rise because there is a 24 connection here. It started in Oneida County. 25 It started with the elected officials and came

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 forward. And I think Senator Meier 2 rhetorically raises a good question. What are 3 the people to do when they make a judgment 4 that they want $26 million in expenditures, 5 how are they going to make that closure? They 6 made a decision that they wanted this 7 legislation. 8 I am confident, just to go back on 9 the issue of Medicaid, that we made major 10 steps last year. You heard one of the major 11 movers say he will come back again and again 12 and again until we get closure on Medicaid 13 reform. Not everyone is in agreement on how 14 we achieve that. But I am sure, because of 15 his and Senator Rath, Senator Hannon and other 16 people involved in this issue, that we will 17 reach compromises through negotiations. But 18 we do need the other house to come to the 19 table and say we'll meet you halfway. 20 Thank you. I vote in the 21 affirmative. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 23 Before the chair recognizes the next speaker, 24 I would just remind the members, as we see 25 from up here people walking in and out, that

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 come the time of the vote, we must be in our 2 chairs to be counted. 3 So I would remind everybody, it 4 makes it a lot easier on the people up here 5 who have to do the counting if everybody would 6 be in their seats and would stay in their 7 seats as much as possible. 8 Senator Balboni. 9 SENATOR BALBONI: Mr. President, 10 at the risk of belaboring this discussion, I 11 find this debate today to be wholly 12 appropriate at this time of the session. 13 Let's get down to rules. How are we going to 14 play with one another? How are we going to 15 talk to each other? 16 This is supposed to be a new year. 17 Right? Reform is in the air. We're supposed 18 to do things differently. Let's start now. 19 Let's start by understanding that we are only 20 one house. As much as we'd like to think that 21 we control the agenda for the Assembly or for 22 the Governor, we do not. It's us. 23 So on the bills that we all the 24 mostly agree on, please join us in lobbying 25 the other house. It's your responsibility, as

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ours. Because there are people really hurting 2 in this state, really hurting. We need to 3 move together on this. 4 So it's not just -- Senator 5 Schneiderman, I understand your role. I've 6 played your role. You are to bring some 7 positive commentary for the other house. I 8 understand that. But at the same time, you 9 have an opportunity and a responsibility to 10 take the message of this house, particularly 11 when your conference supports it, and bring it 12 to the other house. 13 And Senator Valesky -- actually, 14 Marty Connor is in the chamber. And, Marty, 15 you talked about something last week, about 16 the respect we pay one another. I thought it 17 was a very good comment. Well, part of the 18 respect that I grew up with in the State 19 Assembly was that I would never think of 20 voting against a home-rule message. Never. 21 You know why? Unless I had gone to 22 that county, pulled their municipal records, 23 went through their budgets, spoke to their 24 legislators and understood that they were 25 making the wrong decision that bordered on

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 scandal, I would never second-guess them. 2 Because the body we're second-guessing is an 3 independently elected body. It's not 4 appointed like, say, the Court of Appeals that 5 might keep on a huge unfunded mandate on the 6 state, and with no electoral accountability. 7 The people in Oneida County, they 8 have electoral accountability. And therefore 9 they will be responsible to their voters and 10 their constituents. 11 As we go forward, I'm very sincere 12 in my plea. On the things we agree on, let's 13 work to get the other house to join with us 14 for the betterment of everybody. 15 Thank you, Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 17 Senator Nozzolio. 18 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 19 on the bill. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 21 Senator Nozzolio, on the bill. 22 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I wish to 23 build upon the comments of my colleagues to 24 discuss two areas that I never thought I'd be 25 rising over today, but the debate has moved me

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 to do so. 2 The respect that I wish we would 3 have is certainly for this house but, more 4 importantly, for the constitution of this 5 state. The constitution of this state clearly 6 respects the issue of home rule, a 7 long-standing legal obligation that the State 8 of New York and local units of government with 9 within this state have had to endure and enjoy 10 and fight for and respect for over two 11 centuries. 12 Ironically, when the work 13 "Democracy in America" was written, it was 14 written by a Frenchman who traveled through, 15 in all likelihood, Oneida County and other 16 areas through Central New York to discuss what 17 made the United States and democracy in the 18 United States different than what has being 19 displayed in Europe in the early part of the 20 19th century. 21 And that difference was how we 22 dealt in the United States, this new country, 23 with local units of government. There was a 24 respect for government at local levels, an 25 understanding of the dynamics and a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 cooperative partnership between local, state 2 and federal systems. 3 We're here today as an outgrowth of 4 what de Tocqueville talked about, about 5 democracy in America. We're here as an 6 outgrowth directly of what is in our New York 7 State Constitution, and that is respect for 8 local units of government and the decisions 9 they make. 10 This body has a responsibility to 11 review, but that review also must be taken 12 with respect to the needs of local government. 13 And their request before us is very specific, 14 as sponsored by Senator Meier, as pro-offered 15 to this Senate. Our mandate is clear. Our 16 direction is simple. The authority was 17 requested by the County of Oneida. 18 For us to micromanage, to turn our 19 backs on that request says to Oneida County: 20 We're not interested in hearing your opinion. 21 Our opinion matters, not yours. That's a 22 travesty. That's a travesty of this 23 institution. It's a travesty of the 24 constitution. 25 On the broader issue of Medicaid

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 reform, ironically, the architect of Medicaid 2 reform in this house is Senator Meier, who 3 comes from Oneida County and represents that 4 county. For us to parse words and indicate 5 that for some reason this Legislature is 6 fully, totally, exclusively, undeniably 7 responsible for the lack of reform, and 8 particularly the Senate is responsible for the 9 lack of that reform, I think is disingenuous 10 at best. 11 I ask my colleagues on the other 12 side of the aisle, of which at least 24 of you 13 voted for our Medicaid reform principles, in 14 effect, do you believe that it was right for 15 the Assembly not to take up this issue last 16 year? 17 I don't hear any of you describe 18 your consternation in the fact that Medicaid 19 reform was totally ignored by that other 20 house, the other house this year, last year, 21 the year before. Where is your righteous 22 indignation with the fact that the Assembly 23 never even cared enough to pro-offer a 24 substantial reform measure by any member of 25 the majority?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Those of you Democrats who voted 2 for Medicaid reform, I would implore you to 3 ask your colleagues on the Democratic side of 4 the aisle in the Assembly why they have 5 refused to join the Senate in Medicaid reform. 6 Our counties in upstate, their backs are 7 against the wall. Our property taxpayers were 8 never expected to pay for the largest 9 single-cost item of the state budget. And 10 that's health care for the poor. 11 We support health care for the 12 poor. We're just asking you to say that our 13 property taxpayers can no longer afford to 14 bear that entire burden. We ask for you to 15 join us in reforming the Medicaid system. 16 Frankly, what you're telling us, 17 though, is the counties can drop dead. Is 18 that the response that we should be giving to 19 the counties who are dealing with formulas 20 that they never create but are having to deal 21 with? I think not. 22 Twenty-four of you supported our 23 Medicaid reform the last year. Please use 24 this year as the opportunity to push for 25 Medicaid reform. Before we tell the counties

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 how they should be running their governments, 2 we should be telling the State of New York 3 that it can no longer pass on the burden of 4 Medicaid to the local property taxpayers in 5 this state. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 7 Senator Brown. 8 SENATOR BROWN: Thank you, Mr. 9 President. On the bill. 10 You know, there's been a lot of 11 talk today about us supporting the things that 12 we agree on. And one bill that we dealt with 13 today that I think we all agreed on, because 14 it was noncontroversial, that got just about 15 every member's vote, was Senator Rath's bill 16 to create a joint bipartisan task force to 17 study the legislative process. 18 And I commend Senator Rath and I 19 commend Assemblywoman Galef for that bill, 20 which really deals with the reform -- and 21 Senator Robach. I know he's a prime cosponsor 22 of the bill, as many of us in this chamber are 23 cosponsors of that piece of legislation. 24 And what it deals with is a process 25 by which the two houses of this Legislature

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 can come together and talk about how we can 2 work more cooperatively together to get these 3 important issues addressed for the public. 4 And let's be honest about it. 5 Let's be realistic about it. Until we as 6 members of this Legislature start working with 7 each other more cooperatively, start sitting 8 down more regularly, Democrats and 9 Republicans, Assembly members and Senators, 10 some of these critical issues that affect each 11 and every one of our districts are not going 12 to be addressed properly. 13 Now we're all talking about 14 Medicaid reform and the impact of Medicaid on 15 our counties. But Medicaid reform isn't one 16 of the bills that we're dealing with early in 17 the session so counties wouldn't have to make 18 these terrible choices, so our upstate 19 counties principally wouldn't be at such a 20 competitive disadvantage with other 21 neighboring communities. 22 Because when we pass these 23 increases in these county sales taxes, these 24 counties are going to be at terrible, terrible 25 competitive disadvantages. In fact, you know,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 all of us who think job creation and economic 2 development is so important will be dealing 3 with the aftermath of the increase in these 4 sales taxes. 5 So I am hopeful that Assembly 6 Member Galef and Senator Rath's bill really is 7 treated seriously by this house, to get both 8 houses of the Legislature working together 9 cooperatively so that we can reform the 10 process of how the houses communicate, about 11 how we get things on the agenda, so that we 12 can deal with the conference committee 13 process, so that we can work out differences 14 in legislation. 15 So that when bills come to this 16 house, they will also come to the other house 17 of the Legislature, so there won't be so many 18 one-house bills that we're dealing with that 19 we know at the end of the day will end up not 20 going anywhere. 21 So it grieves me that we are in 22 this position today where we have county 23 governments that are in this unenviable 24 position where they have to balance their 25 budgets based on raising the sales tax to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 astronomical proportions. It grieves me that 2 we are not dealing with Medicaid reform 3 earlier in the session so that county 4 governments would not be in this very 5 difficult position. 6 And I don't think it is 7 unreasonable as a protest, I don't think it is 8 unreasonable as a way of sending a message 9 that members of good conscience vote against 10 these sales tax increases. Because what we 11 are doing to our local communities is going to 12 have a devastating effect. 13 And I think we need to spend more 14 time working together, dialoguing together and 15 finding ways that both houses of this 16 Legislature can address the important business 17 that the people have sent us here to do. 18 Thank you, Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 20 Senator Schneiderman. 21 We have an order, Senator. You 22 were up. Unless you want to yield your space. 23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I'll yield 24 my space. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Krueger, then. 2 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 3 Mr. President, if I could request 4 Senator Nozzolio to answer a question, please, 5 based on his earlier statement in the debate. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 7 Senator Nozzolio, do you yield to a question 8 from Senator Krueger? 9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 10 President. 11 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 12 Senator Nozzolio, I heard your very 13 impassioned argument for home rule. And 14 Senator Balboni also made an impassioned 15 argument for home rule. And so I want to ask 16 you, if the City of New York sends home rule 17 bills here this year, do you commit that you 18 will vote for them? 19 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 20 of course I am not sure what specific 21 legislation Senator Krueger refers to. 22 But I believe that not only myself 23 but many if not virtually all members of this 24 side of the aisle have consistently supported 25 home rule measures asked for, requested for by

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 the City of New York. 2 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 3 Mr. President, if Senator Nozzolio 4 would yield to an additional question. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 6 Senator, will you yield for an additional 7 question? 8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Mr. 9 President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 11 Senator yields. 12 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 13 Mr. President. 14 Your point is valid and well-taken. 15 If the City of New York were to send a 16 home-rule message asking for repeal of the 17 Urstadt Law and return of decisions about 18 housing policy in New York City to the City of 19 New York, would you vote for that, sir? 20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 21 an unusual request on the floor of the Senate 22 asking me how I would vote on a measure when 23 describing only the title, not certain about 24 the merits of the issue and whether in fact it 25 is a home-rule request or simply an issue

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 which the proponents wish to forge. I think 2 it's a question that is inappropriately 3 disguised as a home-rule request. 4 I, though, stand by my original 5 answer. I have supported home-rule requests 6 in the past and certainly intend to respect 7 and support home-rule requests in the future. 8 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr. 9 President, if the Senator would yield to an 10 additional question, please. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 12 Senator, do you yield for an additional 13 question? 14 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I'd be happy 15 to yield for an additional question, Mr. 16 President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 18 Senator yields. 19 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you 20 so much. 21 I am not familiar with a disguised 22 home-rule message. How is that different than 23 an actual home-rule message? 24 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Nozzolio. 2 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Would Senator 3 Krueger be so kind as to repeat the question. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 5 Senator, would you so kind as to repeat the 6 question? 7 And I would ask my colleagues to 8 please hold down the conversations so 9 everybody can hear clearly what's going on. 10 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 12 Thank you. 13 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Again, if I 14 misheard you, I apologize. But I heard you 15 say that you would always support a home-rule 16 message but that you couldn't answer the 17 question of whether you would support that 18 home-rule message because it might be 19 disguised as a home-rule message as opposed to 20 being an actual home-rule message. 21 So I was wondering if you could 22 describe to me the difference between a 23 document that comes up from a locality that is 24 an actual home-rule message versus one that 25 might just be masquerading as such.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Well, let me, 2 Mr. President, try to respond Senator Krueger 3 this way. 4 If it's a home-rule message 5 appropriately before this house as a home-rule 6 message, attached, that's a measure that would 7 support. 8 You asked me, Senator -- Mr. 9 President, Senator Krueger asked me whether or 10 not a specific subject matter, could I support 11 that bill or could I not support that bill. 12 My response to you, Mr. President, was of 13 course I could respond to a home-rule request. 14 I wasn't sure whether the specific 15 subject matter Senator Krueger referenced was 16 in factual a valid subject for a home-rule 17 message. 18 If in fact it is a valid subject 19 for a home-rule message and we have 20 appropriate documentation and this house 21 considers such a message and such a proposal, 22 I certainly respect home rule, as I have in 23 the past, as most of the members of this side 24 of the aisle have continually for years 25 supported home-rule messages. And regardless

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 of what jurisdiction they come from, that I 2 certainly would support that matter and look 3 forward to discussions like this in the 4 future. 5 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 6 Thank you, Senator Nozzolio. 7 Mr. President, if I could ask 8 Senator Balboni to yield to a question. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 10 Senator Balboni, will you yield to a question 11 from Senator Krueger? 12 SENATOR BALBONI: Yes. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 14 Senator yields. 15 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 16 Thank you very much, Mr. President. 17 Senator Balboni, you also made an 18 eloquent argument -- 19 SENATOR BALBONI: Thank you. 20 Very nice. 21 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: -- for 22 supporting home-rule messages. I didn't agree 23 with all of your points today, but I 24 appreciated the eloquence around home rule. 25 Would you support any home-rule

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 bill that came from the City of New York to 2 the Senate floor, based on your statement 3 earlier today? 4 SENATOR BALBONI: Any one? No. 5 And I would hope that nobody in the chamber 6 would support any home-rule message that came 7 to this chamber without examining it first, 8 seeing the circumstances underlying the 9 different proposals, seeing whether in fact it 10 has been supported by members who come from 11 that county. 12 I think the point you're trying to 13 make is part of the appeal that I was making. 14 We should be very careful about voting against 15 other communities. And a vote against a 16 home-rule message is a vote against other 17 communities. 18 Now, we have the right to do what 19 we want to do. That's why people elected us 20 and sent us here. My point is that before you 21 do that, you've got to exercise due diligence. 22 You have to look underneath, find out what the 23 motivations are, are they valid. In that 24 case, then of course it's appropriate to vote 25 up or down.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 But my point is that you should 2 always try to respect and give the benefit of 3 the doubt unless you have something to the 4 contrary. 5 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 6 Mr. President, if Senator Balboni 7 would yield to an additional question. 8 SENATOR BALBONI: Yes. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: I 10 hear you, Senator. The chair would never, 11 ever attempt to in any way stifle debate. But 12 one would ask that we are debating a bill here 13 on a tax proposal from a particular community. 14 And what I'm hearing from up here is a 15 philosophical debate on home-rule messages 16 that might be better served for a later time. 17 However, Senator Krueger, if you 18 wish to question the Senator, he has already 19 yielded. 20 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: No, I 21 accept your argument. Thank you, Mr. 22 President. I would like to speak on the bill. 23 And I appreciate your raising -- 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 25 Senator Krueger, on the bill.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: You raise a 2 good question of germaneness, because if one 3 had been listening here today, one might think 4 this was a Medicaid bill, not a sales tax bill 5 for Oneida County. So that in fact was a tad 6 confusing perhaps to some of us as well. 7 But since so many issues have been 8 raised to make this bill broader than a sales 9 tax in Oneida County, and so many of my 10 colleagues have spoken -- and they've spoken 11 about Medicaid. And I am one of the three 12 Democrats who voted against the Medicaid bill 13 that was brought to the floor last year. 14 And I highly respect Senator Meier 15 and his work on Medicaid, and I agreed with 16 many parts of the bill. But I have to tell 17 you and remind everyone, the fact that we 18 passed a Medicaid reform bill did not 19 necessarily make it a good Medicaid reform 20 bill and did not necessarily mean that it was 21 the direction we should have gone down -- 22 without denying the importance of addressing 23 Medicaid. 24 It is also true that this is not a 25 sales tax bill specifically tied into

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Medicaid. Because one might have to ask the 2 question, then, since there are counties in 3 the State of New York who pay dramatically 4 greater shares at a local level for Medicaid 5 than Oneida County, why are we not addressing 6 this in terms of every county? 7 Oneida County pays a percentage of 8 the New York State Medicaid cost dramatically 9 lower than my own City of New York, which pays 10 18 percent of the Medicaid cost, far above the 11 state average. Oneida County is one of the 12 counties in the state that pays lower than 13 average. Not to reject the argument that all 14 of New York State counties are suffering from 15 having too great a share of costs to deal with 16 given their tax policies and their tax 17 structure. 18 But I do want to address the fact 19 that sales tax is one of the most regressive 20 taxes out there. And several people raised it 21 before. Senator Volker made the argument -- I 22 don't see him right now, I apologize. He's 23 not here at the moment -- that in fact we've 24 done good things by reducing our other taxes 25 even if we've had to increase our sales tax to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 make up for the cost. 2 And he referenced that estate taxes 3 are not taxes that are applied only to the 4 wealthy. Well, I would disagree. In fact, 5 the estate tax right now loses us $705 million 6 a year in this state, and it is 7 disproportionately from the top 40 percent 8 income brackets for the State of New York. 9 The sales tax of course falls 10 highest and the greatest pain is felt by the 11 people who are the lowest 40 percent income 12 earners in the state. 13 And he mentioned corporate taxes 14 being reduced and that that's a good thing. 15 And of course nobody ever wants to see taxes 16 go up, they want to see them go down. But in 17 fact, when you look through the tax 18 expenditure budget, the largest and the only 19 significant corporate tax, now about 1.3 -- 20 excuse me, forecast to be about $2.3 billion 21 this year is an exclusion of interest, 22 dividends and capital gains from subsidiary 23 capital. 24 That is not a tax reduction that is 25 going to small businesses. That is a tax

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 reduction going to the largest corporations 2 and multinational corporations. 3 So in fact we do leave ourselves 4 with the situation you respect a locality's 5 request to raise their sales tax even though 6 you know it is the most regressive tax and 7 even though you know it is because we do fail 8 to come together and do the job we need to do 9 here. 10 So I will support this bill despite 11 my opposition to sales tax increases. I will 12 track my colleagues' commitment to 13 home-rule-message philosophy throughout the 14 future of this session. 15 But I would also raise the question 16 of when other dollar amounts are asked of us 17 in our budget, we should think very carefully 18 about the people of Oneida County and all our 19 counties and what are they are paying in to 20 contribute to the debate and the future for 21 the budget and where we get our money or how 22 we spend our money. 23 I would urge our colleagues in 24 advance, do not spend $300 million of state 25 money for a Jets stadium in Manhattan, and do

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 not support the City of New York spending 2 $300 million of its money for the Jets 3 stadium, unless you truly believe every other 4 item that is more important to the State of 5 New York and the City of New York has been 6 addressed prior to that. 7 So I will support this bill on the 8 home-rule ground. But this debate raises many 9 questions for all of us as we move forward in 10 this session about how we decide to tax our 11 population, who gets taxed, who doesn't, and 12 then how we spend the people's money. 13 Thank you, Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 15 Senator Skelos. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 17 when analyzing a home-rule bill that is before 18 us, as was laid out before the Senate by 19 Senator Meier, obviously the elected officials 20 of Oneida County made a very deliberative 21 decision and deliberate decision that this was 22 in the best interest of their constituency to 23 maintain the vital services that are 24 necessary. 25 We've heard much of a debate about

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 home-rule messages. When, again, I look at a 2 home-rule message, if a deliberate decision 3 has been made by the local officials, I think 4 it's appropriate for this house to support 5 that legislation. 6 And would Senator Balboni yield for 7 a question. 8 SENATOR BALBONI: Yes, Mr. 9 President. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator Balboni, 11 there was an issue concerning respecting every 12 single home-rule message. The question to you 13 is, if New York City came with a home-rule 14 message to reimpose the commuter tax on people 15 outside of New York City, do you think that's 16 something that we could vote against? 17 SENATOR BALBONI: I would 18 certainly hope so. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: That impacts 20 people beyond New York City? 21 SENATOR BALBONI: It's an 22 excellent example, Senator, if I might say so, 23 about how home-rule messages are not simply 24 contained within the home jurisdiction. We 25 take it as it comes before us.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SKELOS: So we can 2 separate out, in your opinion, a home-rule 3 message that may have a negative impact on 4 other people in other parts of the state or in 5 fact a negative impact on a state interest, as 6 against something that is solely local, such 7 as the request that has come from Oneida 8 County? 9 SENATOR BALBONI: Not only can 10 we, but we must. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you very 12 much. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 14 Senator Breslin. 15 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you, Mr. 16 President. On the bill. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 18 Senator Breslin, on the bill. 19 SENATOR BRESLIN: I agree with 20 some of my fellow Senators on the relatively 21 sacred nature of the home-rule message. And I 22 also defer to old tax-and-spend Ray Meier. 23 (Laughter.) 24 SENATOR BRESLIN: Seriously, 25 Senator Meier was carrying out the wishes of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 his county officials who voted. 2 But there's a question beyond that. 3 There are bills, as I have had a bill very, 4 very important to my jurisdiction that's 5 gotten, I believe, eight straight home-rule 6 messages. It's been passed every year in the 7 Assembly. But there's another question. It 8 doesn't get to the floor here. And it doesn't 9 get to the floor for good reason, because it's 10 not allowed to get to the floor. 11 And really there may be some 12 criticism of the Brennan report, but it does 13 outline that there were 7,109 bills from 1997 14 to 2001 that passed, but there are a lot of 15 bills that sit. They don't get to be 16 considered as a home-rule basis because they 17 don't get here and because we in the 18 Democratic conference don't have control or 19 power or influence over them. 20 That doesn't mean to say that 21 they're not entirely local, they're not 22 entirely helpful to, in my case, to my 23 jurisdiction, to my people, to my constituents 24 that passes every year in the Assembly but 25 doesn't get to the floor here.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 However, I defer in this case to 2 Senator Meier, to his county that suffers and 3 has a $26 million hole. And I very forcefully 4 vote in the affirmative for this bill. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 6 Senator Schneiderman. 7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you. 8 Thank you, Senator Balboni. The 9 role was rewritten for a slimmer man. 10 (Laughter.) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 12 Some of us resent that. 13 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Mr. 14 President, on the bill. 15 I just want to address primarily a 16 comment that was made by Senator LaValle, a 17 colleague I have a high degree of respect for, 18 about my use of the term "disconnect." 19 I was not talking about the 20 disconnect related to this particular piece of 21 legislation. There's a home-rule message, the 22 county is faced with a problem, it's coming 23 here, we're voting on it. I plan to vote for 24 the bill. 25 The disconnect and the larger issue

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 which I think started us off on this debate -- 2 and this is going to be quite a year if this 3 is an indication of where we're going -- but 4 that started us off and that was raised by 5 Senator Valesky is the larger -- get yourself 6 a pillow and a blanket. It's going to be a 7 lot more talking now that we're all here. 8 The larger issue is simply this. 9 Is it truly a decision being made by this 10 county legislature on their own to raise taxes 11 when their alternative, I gather under the 12 county's estimate, is if they didn't raise 13 sales taxes, they would have a property tax 14 increase of 70 percent? Now, to me, that's 15 not a decision being made because you have 16 freedom to weigh the alternatives. That's a 17 county with a gun to its head. That's a 18 county without a good choice. 19 And when I talk about a disconnect, 20 what I'm referring to is the fact that in this 21 house we appear to have a difficult time 22 accepting responsibility for the fact that, in 23 my view, it is the policies of the State of 24 New York towards our local governments, it is 25 our taxing and spending policies that have put

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 counties all over the state in this situation. 2 The gun is -- this is not a suicide attempt by 3 Erie and Oneida, this is a gun being held to 4 their head by the state government. 5 And I understand, you know, the 6 pleas for collegiality and for us to help with 7 the Assembly. But let's not lose sight of the 8 reality here. As so eloquently stated by our 9 Majority Leader last week, the Majority rules 10 in this house. You all have absolute control 11 of what bills come to the floor. Senator 12 Breslin pointed out getting a home-rule 13 message doesn't mean anything. 14 Every bill that comes to the floor 15 is signed off on by the Majority. You control 16 the legislative agenda. You negotiate and 17 sign off on the budgets that have put the 18 counties in this situation. And you have the 19 ability to trade and negotiation with the 20 Assembly. We're not invited to those 21 meetings. 22 So if you take the benefits of 23 being in the majority, which you do in terms 24 of resources, in terms of your names on the 25 big bills, then you've got to take the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 responsibility. The budgets that have passed 2 this state for the last five years have had a 3 devastating effect on local governments all 4 across the state. 5 Have we -- Senator Volker mentioned 6 cutting taxes. Has the tax burden, if you 7 combine state and local taxes and fees on our 8 citizens, gone down? No, it's gone up. The 9 size of the government has gone up. Has the 10 quality of services necessarily gone up in 11 line with the amount of money people are 12 paying? No. 13 But if you shift from income tax 14 and corporate tax to sales tax to subway fares 15 to SUNY and CUNY tuition increases, that is a 16 tax shift of huge proportions. And we have 17 shifted the tax burden to poor and working 18 New Yorkers. 19 So it's great we're starting the 20 year like this, I agree with Senator Balboni, 21 and that it's good to start with a debate. 22 Let's talk about tax policy. Let's talk about 23 the results of our conduct, not about the 24 one-house bills we pass and our intentions. 25 What is the effect of the work we do in Albany

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 having on the people out there? And that's 2 where I feel, Senator LaValle, there's 3 something of a disconnect. 4 This is not a county on its own 5 undertaking. This is a county forced into 6 this situation by the policies of the State of 7 New York. We have the ability, and maybe 8 holding out until we get something better done 9 is the answer. Maybe if that's all under the 10 Court of Appeals decision we're allowed to do, 11 we may be forced to do it. 12 But business as usual is not 13 getting the job done. Business as usual is 14 not acceptable to the voters. So I hope to be 15 able to work together. But we're not -- it's 16 not going to do us any good if we work 17 together in the same old patterns of passing 18 bills here and praising ourselves and the 19 Assembly passes their bills and praises 20 themselves and we leave without solving the 21 problems. 22 And if that means holdouts, if that 23 means working all night, if that means doing 24 something different than we've ever done 25 before, maybe we need to try it.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 I thank Senator Meier for bringing 2 this to our attention. I thank Senator 3 Valesky for provoking the debate. I think we 4 should have a serious debate about how we tax 5 and how we spend in this state, and I'm happy 6 that we have started it this early in the 7 process. 8 And maybe if we have some time 9 between now and the time we pass the budget, 10 we can actually come up with a better solution 11 for the many, many millions of people who 12 depend on us not to show up and put out press 13 releases and pass one-house bills, but to pass 14 laws and programs that make their lives 15 better. 16 Thank you, Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 18 Does anyone else wish to be heard? 19 Seeing no one, the debate is 20 closed. 21 The Secretary will ring the bell. 22 The Sergeant-at-Arms will bring the members 23 into the chamber. 24 There is a local fiscal impact 25 statement at the desk.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 5 Call the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: I 8 would remind everybody to be in their seats, 9 please. 10 Announce the results, please. 11 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 12 the negative on Calendar Number 9 are Senators 13 Brown, Klein, Morahan, and Valesky. 14 Ayes, 54. Nays, 4. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: The 16 bill is passed. 17 Senator Skelos. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 19 is there any further business to come before 20 the Senate? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: No, 22 Senator, there is not. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Then on behalf 24 of Senator Bruno, I'd like to hand up at this 25 time a Senate Minority leadership roster and

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ask that it be filed. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: It 3 will be received and entered into the Journal. 4 Senator Skelos. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: There being no 6 further business to come before the Senate, I 7 move we stand adjourned until Wednesday, 8 February 2nd, at 11:00 a.m. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MARCELLINO: 10 Session is adjourned until Wednesday, 11 February 2nd, at 11:00 a.m. 12 (Whereupon, at 4:35 p.m., the 13 Senate adjourned.) 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910