Monday, March 7, 2005

1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE 2 3 4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 March 7, 2005 11 3:15 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR RAYMOND A. MEIER, Acting President 19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24 25

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(518) 371-8910 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 3 Senate will come to order. 4 May I ask everyone present to 5 please rise and join me in the Pledge of 6 Allegiance to the Flag. 7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 10 invocation will be offered by the Reverend 11 Peter G. Young. 12 REVEREND YOUNG: Thank you, 13 Senator. 14 Dear Lord, we ask Your presence and 15 Your blessings on this Senate chamber. We 16 have come to express our concern about the 17 welfare of our community and its constituents, 18 to learn from each other, to grow in spirit 19 and in character, to find Your will in our 20 lives and in our neighborhoods. 21 We thank You for the opportunity in 22 this Senate chamber to assemble ourselves at 23 any time and in any place to discuss our 24 concerns as citizens. We are mindful that 25 many in our world do not enjoy such freedom.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Grant us the wisdom to carry out 2 Your decisions within Your will, and bless us 3 to continue to conduct our business with 4 dignity and sensitivity to all. 5 Amen. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Reading 7 of the Journal. 8 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 9 Friday, March 4, the Senate met pursuant to 10 adjournment. The Journal of Thursday, March 11 3, was read and approved. On motion, Senate 12 adjourned. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without 14 objection, the Journal stands approved as 15 read. 16 Presentation of petitions. 17 Messages from the Assembly. 18 Senator Schneiderman. 19 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Mr. 20 President, the Senate received a resolution 21 from the Assembly advising the members of the 22 Senate that the Senate and Assembly will meet 23 at noon tomorrow in the Assembly chamber to 24 elect Regents for the University of the State 25 of New York, pursuant to Section 202 of the

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(518) 371-8910 1 Education Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 3 Schneiderman, I'm informed by the Secretary 4 that we have received the communication and it 5 is filed in the Journal Clerk's office. 6 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 7 Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Thank 9 you, Senator Schneiderman. 10 Messages from the Governor. 11 Reports of standing committees. 12 Reports of select committees. 13 Communications and reports from 14 state officers. 15 Motions and resolutions. 16 Senator Skelos. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 18 if we could go to the noncontroversial reading 19 of the calendar. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 21 Secretary will conduct the noncontroversial 22 reading of the calendar. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 49, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 769, 25 an act to amend the General Business Law, in

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(518) 371-8910 1 relation to renewals. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 3 last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect on the 60th day. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 41. Nays, 10 1. Senator Meier recorded in the negative. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 82, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 2148, 15 an act to amend the General Obligations Law, 16 in relation to the statutory short form. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 18 last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 20 act shall take effect on the first of January. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 44. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill

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(518) 371-8910 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 86, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 977, an 4 act to amend the Workers' Compensation Law, in 5 relation to the direct deposit. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 7 last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 44. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 94, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 479, an 18 act to amend the Penal Law, the Executive Law, 19 and the Correction Law, in relation to 20 prohibiting. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 22 last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 24 act shall take effect on the first of 25 September.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 46. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 6 is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 95, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 480, an 9 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 10 sexual assault against a child. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 12 last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 14 act shall take effect on the first of 15 November. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 46. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 98, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 878, an 24 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 25 relation to police officer statements.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 2 last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 4 act -- 5 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it 6 aside. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 8 is laid aside. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 100, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 932, an 11 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 12 increasing the criminal penalties. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 14 last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 12. This 16 act shall take effect on the first of 17 November. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 46. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 23 is passed. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 103, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 1170, an

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(518) 371-8910 1 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 2 relation to the period of limitation. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 4 last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 104, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 1513, an 15 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 16 endangering the welfare of a child. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 18 last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect on the first of 21 November. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 23 roll. 24 (The Secretary called the roll.) 25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 105, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 1517, an 5 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 6 establishing the crimes of attempting to lure 7 or entice a child. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 9 last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect on the first of 12 November. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 18 is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 107, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 1521, an 21 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 22 assaults committed in the presence of certain 23 children. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 25 last section.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect on the first of 3 November. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 8 the negative on Calendar Number 107 are 9 Senators Andrews, Hassell-Thompson, and 10 Montgomery. Ayes, 47. Nays, 3. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 108, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 1619, an 15 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 16 consecutive sentences. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 18 last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect on the first of 21 November. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 23 roll. 24 (The Secretary called the roll.) 25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 50.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 125, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 1136, an 5 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in 6 relation to the allocation of replacement 7 power. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 9 last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 16 Maziarz, to explain his vote. 17 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you very 18 much, Mr. President. 19 This is an extremely important bill 20 for economic development in all of Western 21 New York. There are approximately 44 22 companies located in Niagara and Erie counties 23 which employ in excess of 24,000 manufacturing 24 employees. 25 I just want to publicly acknowledge

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(518) 371-8910 1 the work that Senator Volker, Senator Rath, my 2 colleagues from Western New York -- Senator 3 Stachowski -- have done on this bill. 4 But I especially want to thank the 5 chairman of the Senate Energy Committee, who 6 did an excellent job in shepherding this bill 7 through the Energy Committee and educating us 8 a whole lot about the replacement power 9 process. And it could not have been done 10 without the good work of Senator Wright. 11 And Senator Spano, from Westchester 12 County, played a very important role in making 13 sure that this bill got to the floor today 14 too. 15 Thank you, Mr. President. I vote 16 aye. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 18 Maziarz will be recorded in the affirmative. 19 Senator Rath, to explain her vote. 20 SENATOR RATH: To explain my 21 vote. 22 For those who might wonder what 23 replacement power is, if you can imagine a 24 powerhouse of a power project sliding down 25 into the Niagara Gorge a number of years ago,

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(518) 371-8910 1 and the power that was lost to the companies 2 that used that in order to be competitive. 3 Because, after all, they were right there at 4 the seat and the heart of where power was 5 generated in New York State in those days. 6 And so replacement power became an 7 item that was given to the companies who had 8 power when the Schoellkopf plant slipped into 9 the Niagara Gorge. And so that has been an 10 extraordinarily important part of the business 11 plan of many companies in Western New York. 12 And thanks to everyone who made 13 this a reality and made it happen, because 14 there are a lot of people who will continue to 15 work because companies will make decisions to 16 expand, they will make decisions to move on 17 and do more with their business plans as a 18 result of maintaining this replacement power, 19 which they've had almost since time 20 immemorial, since that first Schoellkopf plant 21 was built. 22 And the rates have gone up, but 23 they have always been favorable to the 24 companies who were the first companies on the 25 Niagara Frontier who believed in this new

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(518) 371-8910 1 gimmick called electricity and put it into 2 their buildings. 3 Thank you. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 5 Rath will be recorded in the affirmative. 6 Senator Volker, to explain his 7 vote. 8 SENATOR VOLKER: Briefly, Mr. 9 President. 10 I took a pretty severe beating on 11 this bill at one point. And I want to thank 12 Senator Maziarz, who did an excellent job with 13 this bill. And I want to also thank Senator 14 Wright, who worked very hard to make this a 15 reality. 16 And also, in an attempt -- and by 17 the way, this has always been the law. It is 18 under the federal charter. It dates back 19 to -- John Daly and myself worked on this 20 many, many years ago, the late Senator John 21 Daly. 22 The problem back in Buffalo was 23 that they didn't really understand what this 24 was completely all about. And they also 25 didn't realize that there's another 146

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(518) 371-8910 1 megawatts of power that has disappeared from 2 Western New York because a number of plants 3 have left the area. 4 They all, by the way, left in 5 the -- before the last ten years, contrary to 6 people's feeling lately. We haven't been 7 losing plants, thank God. 8 But I want to thank Senator Maziarz 9 and Senator Wright for what they have done. 10 And we still hope -- this bill we expect to 11 pass the Assembly, and we also expect the next 12 bill that was sponsored by Senator Wright, 13 relating to the North Country, to also pass 14 the Assembly. 15 I vote aye. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 17 Volker will be recorded in the affirmative. 18 Announce the results. 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 126, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 1393, an 24 act to amend the Public Authorities Law, in 25 relation to the allocation of preservation

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(518) 371-8910 1 power. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 3 last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 11 is passed. 12 Senator Skelos, that completes the 13 noncontroversial -- oh, I'm sorry. 14 Senator Wright. 15 SENATOR WRIGHT: To explain my 16 vote on the bill we just passed. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without 18 objection. Senator Wright, to explain his 19 vote. 20 SENATOR WRIGHT: Let me first say 21 that I'm very pleased that we were able to 22 pass both pieces of legislation this 23 afternoon. 24 As you all recognize, it was last 25 session that we passed a combined bill that

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(518) 371-8910 1 had both provisions for Western and Northern 2 New York together. And that, unfortunately, 3 was not taken up by the Assembly. And they 4 said to us: We want separate bills. 5 So we have worked cooperatively 6 with Senator Volker, Senator Maziarz, 7 Senator Spano, and of course Senator Bruno, 8 who shepherded both bills through this house 9 so that we are in a position to deliver what 10 the Assembly indicated they were seeking, and 11 that was to provide parity, fairness and 12 equity to both Western and Northern New York, 13 which are homes to the largest generating 14 hydrofacilities in the state. 15 They have paid the cost over the 16 years in terms of lost property, lost taxes. 17 And they're entitled to the energy, they're 18 entitled to the jobs that you have put in 19 statute. 20 Thank you very much. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 22 Wright is recorded in the affirmative, and the 23 bill is passed. 24 Senator Schneiderman. 25 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: To explain

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(518) 371-8910 1 my vote. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Without 3 objection. Senator Schneiderman, to explain 4 his vote. 5 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 6 Mr. President. 7 I appreciate the effort that has 8 gone into these bills. I would like to note 9 that energy costs are a major impediment to 10 economic growth throughout New York State and 11 that the Governor's proposed budget allocates 12 only $75 million for a one-year extension of 13 the Power for Jobs program. 14 I hope that we will -- and there 15 have been meetings and proposed legislation in 16 the past in this house and in the Assembly. 17 But I hope this year we will take the 18 opportunity to provide something other than 19 uncertain one-year funding for piecemeal 20 programs, and not simply limit our energy cost 21 reduction efforts to certain geographic areas. 22 I think that the effort that has 23 gone into these bills demonstrates how 24 difficult it is even to operate on a piecemeal 25 basis. But throughout Central New York,

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(518) 371-8910 1 throughout the suburbs of New York City there 2 is a need for low-cost power. And the best 3 way to address that is with a comprehensive 4 set of programs particularly focusing on the 5 Power for Jobs program. 6 I hope we will be able to do better 7 than the Governor's proposal for a $75 million 8 one-year shot in that critical program in this 9 year's budget. 10 Thank you, Mr. President. I vote 11 in the affirmative. And I hope we will have 12 more bills like this to deal with as the 13 session comes along. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 15 Schneiderman votes in the affirmative, and the 16 bill is passed. 17 Senator Skelos, that completes the 18 noncontroversial reading of the calendar. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, 20 Mr. President. If we could go to the 21 controversial reading at this time. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 23 Secretary will conduct the controversial 24 reading of the calendar. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number

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(518) 371-8910 1 98, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 878, an 2 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law. 3 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: 4 Explanation. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 6 Volker, an explanation has been requested. 7 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 8 this is a bill that passed last year and 9 received some questioning. 10 What this bill does, very quickly, 11 is to allow the testimony of a police officer 12 which was taken under oath to be admitted in a 13 grand jury proceeding as long as there is an 14 affidavit in relation to it. 15 And I might add that there are 16 certain restrictions. If there was an 17 adversarial examination of such officer 18 previously conducted in regard to this 19 offense, a transcript of that examination must 20 be submitted. 21 And I pointed out last year that if 22 the -- in the interests of justice, of course, 23 any judge can order a person brought before 24 the grand jury. The idea of this is to try to 25 avoid unnecessary expense.

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(518) 371-8910 1 The second thing is, and probably 2 the most important -- because I think most of 3 the time the law enforcement officer will 4 probably testify before the grand jury 5 anyways -- is in relation to business records. 6 And that's where the big savings is. 7 A lot of law enforcement officers 8 are asked to come in and confirm business 9 records. And I did that myself many years 10 ago. You bring in a -- for instance, a -- I'm 11 trying to think of something you bring in. A 12 copy of an accident report. Or there's a 13 whole series of things that you might bring 14 in. 15 In this case, instead of doing 16 that, you can give an affidavit, a sworn 17 affidavit, relating to your connection with 18 whatever that document is and whatever that 19 accident report or whatever it is. 20 Savings on this could be very 21 substantial. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 23 Schneiderman. 24 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 25 Mr. President.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Would the sponsor yield for one 2 brief question. 3 SENATOR VOLKER: Certainly. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 5 Volker, do you yield? 6 The Senator yields. 7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: What is 8 the estimated cost saving from the portion of 9 this bill that would eliminate the need in, as 10 you pointed out, in some cases for police 11 officers to testify as live witnesses in a 12 grand jury? 13 SENATOR VOLKER: The State Police 14 estimates $150,000. 15 I think they're awfully 16 conservative. I would probably say close to a 17 million dollars in total. Because this is not 18 just State Police officers, this is for law 19 enforcement officers. 20 I would have to say that the 21 overtime amounts -- and some police officers, 22 by the way, are not particularly happy with 23 this legislation, because obviously they make 24 quite a bit of money in overtime costs and so 25 forth.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And in some of the cities, two 2 cities in particular that I'm aware of, this 3 could save two cities in particular a lot of 4 money. Because the grand jury proceedings are 5 blocked up a lot by law enforcement officers 6 that are brought in to testify. 7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you. 8 Through you, Mr. President, on the 9 bill. 10 I agree with Senator Volker's point 11 about the business records issue. I do think 12 that it is something that really is a pro 13 forma part of testimony in front of a grand 14 jury or at a full trial. That's a commonsense 15 proposal that would save money in the state. 16 However, I cannot bring myself to 17 vote for this bill because of the second 18 provision. And this was discussed in the 19 debate last year, and I think this is 20 tremendously important. 21 It is not -- we should be very, 22 very cautious about proposals to save 23 relatively small amounts of money in the 24 context of the state budget by reducing the 25 due process protections for the citizens of

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(518) 371-8910 1 this state. 2 And I think that the grand juries 3 are the creatures of prosecutors already. You 4 know, the expression that you can get a grand 5 jury to indict a ham sandwich if you want to 6 is not that far off. I've been a witness in 7 grand jury proceedings, and it is something 8 where the prosecutor controls the flow. They 9 move it along very quickly, usually. 10 The one thing that in my mind is 11 the most critical thing that the grand jurors 12 actually bring to the process is their ability 13 to evaluate the credibility of witnesses. 14 Grand jurors do have the power to ask 15 questions of witnesses or to discuss the 16 testimony of witnesses. 17 And I think that for us to have a 18 one-sided fix with the goal of saving $150,000 19 or $250,000 or $300,000 in a $105 billion 20 state budget I think is tremendously 21 shortsighted. In a democracy that provides 22 for due process of law, we should be very 23 cautious about trying to save money by 24 reducing the ability of grand jurors to assess 25 the credibility of a witness.

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(518) 371-8910 1 If a police officer wants to come 2 in in a controversial case seeking an 3 indictment of a defendant, one of the things 4 that in my mind is most critical is to allow a 5 jury and allow a grand jury to assess the 6 credibility of that witness. 7 This would allow a prosecutor to 8 make a determination: You know, I don't think 9 that police officer makes a very good witness. 10 He looks like he's nervous, he's lying. I'm 11 going to try and cross every T and dot every I 12 under this provision to keep him out. But if 13 I do have a police officer as a witness I 14 think is going to make a good witness, I'm 15 going to use him. 16 It puts too much power in the hands 17 of prosecutors. It is too quick a fix of a 18 problem that I don't think is really an 19 enormous problem. We're going to be debating 20 on Wednesday a death penalty statute that 21 costs hundreds of millions of dollars for us 22 to try to move forward a procedure that has 23 resulted thus far in massive expense and 24 actually no executions of anyone. 25 To save $150,000, $200,000,

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(518) 371-8910 1 $250,000, even a million dollars by removing 2 the due process protection of allowing grand 3 jurors to assess the credibility of a police 4 witness I think is a mistake. 5 I'm going to vote no, and I 6 encourage everyone to vote no. I hope we can 7 separate out the first portion of this bill, 8 because I do think that's something that would 9 have substantial support everywhere, in this 10 house and in the other house. But until we do 11 that, Mr. President, I will be voting no. 12 Thank you. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any 14 other Senator wish to be heard? 15 Debate is closed, then. 16 The Secretary will sound the bells, 17 please. 18 (Pause in proceedings.) 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 20 last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 22 act shall take effect on the first of 23 November. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 25 roll.

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(518) 371-8910 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 3 DeFrancisco, to explain his vote. 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I'm going 5 to vote no on this bill, largely for the 6 reasons that Senator Schneiderman mentioned. 7 It's one thing to put in business 8 records, but it's another thing, especially -- 9 any witness, whether it's a police officer or 10 not, when in restricting the time that an 11 affidavit could be presented to when the 12 officer actually knows these things from 13 personal knowledge or witnessed the 14 occurrence. What more important witness would 15 there be? 16 And I just think that if this is 17 allowed, then there's really no purpose for 18 the grand jury. And maybe we should, if we 19 want to save money, start thinking about 20 abolishing the grand jury, because otherwise 21 it will have no real purpose if we start 22 allowing witnesses to testify, in quotes, by 23 affidavit. 24 I vote no. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 DeFrancisco will be recorded in the negative. 2 Announce the results. 3 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 4 the negative on Calendar Number 98 are 5 Senators Andrews, Breslin, DeFrancisco, Diaz, 6 Gonzalez, Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, 7 Montgomery, Paterson, Savino, Schneiderman, 8 and A. Smith. 9 Ayes, 43. Nays, 12. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 11 is passed. 12 Senator Skelos. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 14 is there any housekeeping at the desk? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Yes, we 16 do have a motion, Senator. 17 Senator Fuschillo. 18 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: On behalf of 19 Senator Saland -- 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Just a 21 second, Senator. 22 Can we have some order in the 23 chamber. 24 Senator Fuschillo. 25 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. 2 On behalf of Senator Saland, on 3 page number 16 I offer the following 4 amendments to Calendar Number 133, Senate 5 Print Number 478, and ask that said bill 6 retain its place on Third Reading Calendar. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 8 amendments are received and adopted, and the 9 bill will retain its place on the order of 10 third reading. 11 Senator Montgomery. 12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr. 13 President. Had I been in the chamber when the 14 Calendar Number 96 was voted by this body, I 15 would have voted no. I believe it was voted 16 on Wednesday. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 18 record will so reflect, Senator. 19 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 21 Skelos. 22 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 23 there being no further business to come before 24 the Senate, I move we stand adjourned until 25 Tuesday, March 8th, at 3:00 p.m.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: On 2 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until 3 Tuesday, March the 8th, at 3:00 p.m. 4 (Whereupon, at 3:43 p.m., the 5 Senate adjourned.) 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

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(518) 371-8910