Monday, April 4, 2005

1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE 2 3 4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 April 4, 2005 11 3:19 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President 19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24 25

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will 3 please come to order. 4 I ask everyone present to please 5 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of 6 Allegiance. 7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 9 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Bruno. 10 SENATOR BRUNO: Madam President, 11 Rabbis, Father Young, colleagues, I would 12 respectfully ask all in the chamber that we 13 open this session in honor of the memory of 14 our very, very close friend and colleague, 15 Patricia -- Pat -- McGee, who, as you all 16 know, passed away at 8:30 Saturday night and 17 won't be with us here in this chamber 18 physically, but she will be here with us 19 spiritually. 20 Thank you, Madam President. 21 THE PRESIDENT: With us this 22 afternoon to give the invocation is Rabbi 23 Shmuel M. Butman, from Lubavitch Youth 24 Organization in Brooklyn, New York. 25 RABBI BUTMAN: When God is with

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 you, you get to meet Mary Donohue twice on the 2 same day. We did that before, and it's really 3 a pleasure. 4 Let us pray together. 5 [In Hebrew.] Our heavenly Father, 6 we ask You to bestow Your blessings upon the 7 Senate of the State of New York. Bless them 8 and their families with all good blessings of 9 health and prosperity and the power to 10 continue the good work that they have been 11 doing until now. 12 You have been blessed, each and 13 every single one of you. You are the 14 representatives of the people of the great 15 State of New York, and you legislate laws that 16 govern society, laws that introduce goodness 17 and kindness and honesty and decency to all 18 the citizens in this great State of New York 19 and, through them, to the people in the United 20 States, and by extension to all the people in 21 the world. Which means you in this chamber 22 make the world a better place. 23 We are so glad that you have 24 dedicated 103 days of education in honor of 25 the Rebbe. The Rebbe is the one who worried

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 and worries for the education of every child 2 regardless of race, religion, color and creed. 3 And the Rebbe tells us that we live 4 in a special generation. This is the last 5 generation of exile and the first generation 6 of redemption. And we can bring that great 7 redemption even closer by doing more deeds of 8 goodness and kindness. 9 And talking about deeds of goodness 10 and kindness, in 1991 I opened a much smaller 11 chamber than this, the United States Senate in 12 Washington. The Rebbe told me I should take a 13 pushkeh with me -- a pushkeh is a charity 14 box -- and then I should invite -- in the 15 opening I should put in a dollar, on which it 16 says "in God we trust," in the pushkeh, so 17 that everyone should know that they have an 18 obligation to give charity and do the right 19 thing. 20 So although this is not a 21 fund-raising campaign, but if you want to join 22 us after that in doing an act of goodness and 23 kindness, that would be greatly appreciated. 24 And now I would like to do exactly 25 what the Rebbe asked me to do, and put in this

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 dollar into the pushkeh, so that we do another 2 act of goodness and kindness. And that we 3 show the example as to what money has to be 4 used for, as the Rebbe told us. 5 In all our shuls, in all our 6 synagogues every Saturday, I want you to know, 7 we say a special prayer for each and every 8 single one of you. We say the [in Hebrew], 9 which means all those who serve the public 10 faithfully, as you do, may almighty God reward 11 their noble deeds. 12 We are too small to reward you for 13 the wonderful things that you are doing, but 14 almighty God, He Himself is the one who can 15 reward you for those good deeds that you are 16 doing and that you will continue to do. 17 And may God's blessing be upon you 18 and your families for health and for 19 happiness, for long life and for gladness of 20 heart. May God bless you, all of you. 21 Thank you. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Also with us this 23 afternoon to speak with us is the Reverend 24 Peter G. Young, from Blessed Sacrament Church 25 in Bolton Landing, New York.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 REVEREND YOUNG: When we speak 2 and meet in session today, we share our 3 friendship while advocating our own 4 constituency's agenda. 5 One of our peers, from the 57th 6 District, has suddenly left a void in our 7 Senate chamber. Her chair is represented by, 8 today, red roses. 9 Her death leaves us with a sorrow 10 that will not only be felt in the Olean and 11 Jamestown area, but here where Senator McGee 12 gave a voice to the agricultural community but 13 respect, then, to all of her coworkers and 14 friends here in the capital. 15 May we continue to follow her 16 example of hospitality, dedication and 17 commitment to the citizens of New York State. 18 We take this opportunity to pray 19 for an eternal reward for her outstanding 20 dignity and sensitivity as a member of this 21 esteemed Senate body. 22 Amen. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Marchi. 24 SENATOR MARCHI: Madam President, 25 it's indeed a fortuitous set of circumstances

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 that bring us all back together again. 2 Rabbi Butman is not a stranger 3 here. He has been with us on many occasions, 4 and it's always been a joyous matter. He 5 represents, with his colleagues, over a 6 thousand years of continuous sharing of 7 experiences, and very broad in his 8 application. 9 I remember the first time they 10 invited me over to meet the Rebbe, there 11 were -- I stayed a solid hour at that time, 12 and I was spellbound. He had been educated in 13 the University of Paris, I believe, and he had 14 had the benefit of a very wide education. 15 And if he were here now, you'd be 16 very happy to hear him, because he represented 17 all that we felt was sacred not only to our 18 own particular view of our theology, but he 19 strengthened everybody's understanding of that 20 theology, that we are not -- we are not just 21 animals or creatures of God of a lower order, 22 but members of a great fraternity that they 23 represent so well, and that throughout the 24 world, in small numbers but significant 25 numbers, small numbers who remind us of the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 great significance of their presence. They go 2 into Maimonides, they go into the great people 3 who gave fire and emphasis to all of the 4 things and experiences we felt. 5 So it's always a joy. I'm along in 6 years, along with some of you -- but you're 7 all younger than I am, I guess. And as long 8 as it lasts, believe me, I think it fills us 9 with a feeling of joy, of jubilation that you 10 are here, because you have so much to point to 11 in terms of reinforcing every spiritual 12 feeling that runs into this wide society. 13 Whether they're members of your religion, 14 particularly, but you strengthen that 15 throughout the world. 16 So it's indeed a joy to see you 17 again, and I'm sure you will find the same 18 spirit over in the Assembly when you visit 19 them, because you exemplify that which is so 20 important to the people, to the creatures of 21 God, that we are meant for a higher destiny 22 and we know it. 23 So again, it's been a great 24 pleasure to see you, sir, and your colleagues. 25 And I do hope I -- well, I just count it a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 blessing when I have an opportunity, Madam 2 President. You've got them right there, and 3 I'm sure that you appreciate the fact that 4 they are splendid people and that they 5 represent a tradition that goes back a 6 millennium, and over that, on the nature of 7 our spirituality and our culture. 8 This is everyone. There isn't a 9 person in this chamber who has not been 10 affected by them and those who preceded them 11 so nobly through the years. 12 So God bless you. And I'm very, 13 very proud to see you again and very happy in 14 this experience. 15 RABBI BUTMAN: Thank you very, 16 very much. Thank you, Senator. 17 Madam President, thank you very 18 much. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Reading of the 20 Journal. 21 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 22 Sunday, April 3, the Senate met pursuant to 23 adjournment. The Journal of Saturday, 24 April 2, was read and approved. On motion, 25 Senate adjourned.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 THE PRESIDENT: Without 2 objection, the Journal stands approved as 3 read. 4 Presentation of petitions. 5 Messages from the Assembly. 6 Messages from the Governor. 7 Reports of standing committees. 8 Reports of select committees. 9 Communications and reports from 10 state officers. 11 Motions and resolutions. 12 Senator Fuschillo. 13 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Madam 14 President, on behalf of Senator Morahan, on 15 page number 26 I offer the following 16 amendments to Calendar Number 380, Senate 17 Print Number 2044, and ask that said bill 18 retain its place on Third Reading Calendar. 19 THE PRESIDENT: The amendments 20 are received, and the bill will retain its 21 place on the Third Reading Calendar. 22 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Madam 23 President, on behalf of Senator Seward, on 24 page number 25 I offer the following 25 amendments to Calendar Number 369, Senate

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Print Number 81, and ask that said bill retain 2 its place on Third Reading Calendar. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Those amendments 4 are also received, and that bill will also 5 retain its place on the Third Reading 6 Calendar. 7 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Madam 8 President, on behalf of Senator Nozzolio, on 9 page number 12 I offer the following 10 amendments to Calendar Number 127, Senate 11 Print Number 1973, and ask that said bill 12 retain its place on Third Reading Calendar. 13 THE PRESIDENT: The amendments 14 are received, and the bill will retain its 15 place on the Third Reading Calendar. 16 Senator Spano. 17 SENATOR SPANO: Madam President, 18 can we proceed to the noncontroversial 19 calendar, please. 20 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 21 will read. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 130, by Member of the Assembly Cahill, 24 Assembly Print Number 3627, an act to amend 25 the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law, in

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 relation to a license. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 3 section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 53. 9 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 10 passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 192, by Senator LaValle -- 13 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it 14 aside. 15 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 16 aside. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 317, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 3016, 19 an act to amend the General Business Law, in 20 relation to rental vehicle companies. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 22 section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 24 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 25 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 53. 3 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 4 passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 340, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 2852, 7 an act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 8 relation to evidence. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 10 section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54. 16 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 17 passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 345, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 3157, an 20 act to -- 21 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it 22 aside. 23 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 24 aside. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 347, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3256 -- 2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it 3 aside. 4 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 5 aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 350, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 3328, an 8 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 9 penalties for assault and manslaughter. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 11 section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 13 act shall take effect on the first of 14 November. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52. Nays, 18 2. Senators Duane and Montgomery recorded in 19 the negative. 20 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 21 passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 353, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 3336, an 24 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to the 25 crime of surreptitious surveillance.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 2 section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 4 act shall take effect on the first of 5 November. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54. 9 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 10 passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 400, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 3234, an 13 act to amend the Labor Law, in relation to 14 standards and requirements. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 16 section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55. 22 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 23 passed. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 403, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 3521, an

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 act to amend the Workers' Compensation Law, in 2 relation to the presumption. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 4 section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55. 10 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 11 passed. 12 Senator Spano, that completes the 13 noncontroversial reading of the calendar. 14 SENATOR SPANO: Can we now 15 proceed to the controversial reading of the 16 calendar. 17 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 18 will ring the bell. 19 SENATOR SPANO: Madam President. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Spano. 21 SENATOR SPANO: Will you please 22 ring the bells to inform the members that 23 we're on the controversial reading of the 24 calendar. 25 THE PRESIDENT: Yes, we just -- I

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 will again request the Secretary to ring the 2 bell so the members can get to their seats for 3 the controversial calendar. 4 The Secretary will read. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 192, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 838A, an 7 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to 8 reporting. 9 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: 10 Explanation. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator LaValle, 12 an explanation has been requested. 13 SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you, 14 Madam President. 15 This is legislation that we have 16 debated in prior years on this floor. This 17 bill has one important change in it that 18 resulted from prior debates on the bill, and I 19 will discuss what that change is. 20 This bill deals with nonimmigrant 21 students who come to this country to study 22 that have an M-1 or an F-1 visa. They have 23 received the visa, have indicated they are 24 coming to a school but then disappear, never 25 register. Or they come, register and then

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 disappear. 2 What we do in this bill is to set 3 up certain reporting requirements. And that 4 when we report information of a student that's 5 missing to Homeland Security, we also report 6 this to the State Police. 7 One of the changes that we have 8 made in this legislation that differs from 9 prior years is we indicate that the New York 10 State Police shall not hold such person unless 11 it believes the person poses a threat to the 12 safety of the citizens of this state. 13 In prior debates, some of the 14 members were concerned that students would be 15 held against their will, they would be easy 16 targets and so forth. 17 Now, the reason once again for this 18 bill, we cannot, in the time that we live, in 19 the period of time that we live, post-9/11, be 20 too careful. We have to make sure that 21 students who come into our country to avail 22 themselves of quality education are here for 23 that purpose. And if they haven't registered 24 when they were supposed to register or they 25 registered and then disappear, we want to know

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 where they are, whether they have, just 2 because of their youth, kind of taken off and 3 have become kind of playful, or they have 4 taken off to do not good things. 5 And we want to be able to have our 6 law enforcement people armed with the 7 information so that we are protecting, to the 8 greatest extent possible, our citizens. 9 We also ask our colleges to provide 10 information that the colleges have but is not 11 available, and that is the number of graduate 12 and undergraduate students by country of 13 origin and the number of students enrolled by 14 degree program and country of origin. 15 That information I know I sought 16 and could not get that information anyplace. 17 And so we are asking the colleges -- we're not 18 looking for individual names in that category, 19 but we want to know what countries are sending 20 students to our universities and what are they 21 studying. We want to know that. 22 We also set up penalties under this 23 legislation, because we want to make sure that 24 the colleges and universities understand the 25 importance of this in terms of the safety and

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 the welfare of our citizens, considering what 2 took place after 9/11. 3 That's my explanation, Madam 4 President. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Does any other 6 member wish to be heard? 7 Then the debate is closed. 8 Senator Stavisky. 9 SENATOR STAVISKY: I'll explain 10 my vote instead. 11 THE PRESIDENT: All right. Thank 12 you, Senator. 13 Senator Schneiderman. 14 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you. 15 Thank you, Gov -- Governor? -- Madam 16 President. 17 Would the sponsor yield for a few 18 brief questions. 19 SENATOR LaVALLE: Sure. Yes. 20 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you. 21 Is there any other state in the 22 country that imposes a separate requirement 23 for reporting to its state police in addition 24 to the requirement imposed under the SEVIS 25 system for reporting to the federal

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 government? 2 SENATOR LaVALLE: We believe that 3 states like Florida and Texas have reporting 4 to their state police. 5 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 6 you, Madam President, how long have those 7 systems been in effect? 8 SENATOR LaVALLE: I can't answer 9 that, Senator. But obviously it has to be 10 since 2001, would be my guess. 11 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: And 12 through you, Madam President, if the sponsor 13 would continue to yield. 14 SENATOR LaVALLE: Yes. 15 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor does 16 continue to yield, Senator Schneiderman. You 17 may proceed with a question. 18 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: This 19 legislation as redrafted, and I appreciate the 20 effort to improve it, requires the officials 21 of the designated schools to report to the 22 federal government and also simultaneously to 23 report to the State Police, does it not? 24 SENATOR LaVALLE: Yes. 25 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: And then

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 this legislation goes on to require, quote, 2 the New York State Police shall immediately 3 notify the proper federal authorities. 4 That's in addition to the 5 requirement that the college officials notify 6 the federal authority. 7 SENATOR LaVALLE: Yes. And that 8 is obviously if they're encountering someone. 9 Now, we can't -- ideally, if the federal 10 government has this information, which they 11 do, ideally they should be reporting to every 12 state and every state police. 13 We can't mandate that. So the best 14 we can do is here in New York ensure that our 15 State Police are being vigilant and part of 16 the loop. 17 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you. 18 And through you, Madam President, if the 19 sponsor would continue to yield. 20 SENATOR LaVALLE: Yes, I will. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator LaValle 22 does yield. You may proceed with a question, 23 Senator. 24 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: This 25 legislation then goes on to require that the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 New York State Police shall not hold such 2 person -- referring, I guess, to the foreign 3 student -- unless it believes the person poses 4 a threat to the safety of the citizens of the 5 state. 6 How are the New York State Police 7 to make a determination as to whether or not a 8 person identified to them poses a threat to 9 the safety of the citizens of the state? 10 SENATOR LaVALLE: I would 11 imagine, Senator, that they would use the same 12 criteria as they do under Terry to stop and 13 frisk. That police, I think, are trained and 14 have a protocol in seeing individuals that are 15 in -- that either look suspicious or are in a 16 certain circumstance that they would stop them 17 and pursue a certain line of questioning and 18 so forth. 19 So that language, again, Senator, 20 was included because of prior debates where 21 people thought that law enforcement people 22 might be frivolous in their conduct in 23 stopping someone and retaining them for a long 24 period of time. 25 So I think what we are doing is

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 really saying, you know, you need to go 2 through a protocol that is established before 3 you move forward and hold an individual for a 4 protracted period of time. 5 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you. 6 Thank the sponsor. 7 Madam President, on the bill. 8 THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed 9 on the bill, Senator. 10 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I 11 sincerely appreciate, in a house where we 12 frequently see bills that come to us in the 13 same flawed form for more than a decade at a 14 time, anyone who attempts to work on a bill 15 and make it better. 16 I do feel that we have not got 17 before us today a bill that really fits 18 effectively into the existing framework for 19 law enforcement regarding foreign students. 20 The federal system, which is really 21 very, very new -- August 2004 marked the 22 one-year requirement for all international 23 students to register under the SEVIS system -- 24 was designed to create a seamless flow of 25 information where everywhere in the United

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 States had the same information, where the 2 federal government was able to monitor this. 3 Keeping in mind that we are not 4 talking about monitoring people who are 5 accused of committing any crime. We're 6 talking about people who simply don't show up 7 when you're expecting them to show up for 8 school. 9 So this legislation as proposed 10 today would take our overburdened State Police 11 and impose a requirement on them that they 12 don't want; take our overburdened and, I would 13 respectfully submit, in many cases underfunded 14 colleges and universities and impose a burden 15 on them that they don't want; and impose a set 16 of requirements that overlap with most of the 17 federal requirements, although not precisely. 18 This is precisely the kind of 19 confusing system that the SEVIS system and the 20 efforts of the Homeland Security Department to 21 consolidate information relating to immigrants 22 and to foreign students are designed to 23 prevent. 24 So what we have here is a bill that 25 would say -- and I'm just reading from the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 bill -- if a student, quote, has failed to 2 report to the designated school official at 3 the time he or she is expected to commence his 4 or her program of study, such official shall 5 simultaneously report such noncompliance to 6 the federal agency and to the New York State 7 Police. 8 So that means if someone is a week 9 late to class, you already have whatever 10 reporting requirements you have under the 11 SEVIS system to the federal government. That 12 student may have shown in another state at a 13 school. We don't know; our State Police have 14 no way of knowing. 15 This imposes on our State Police, 16 then, some sort of an obligation, although 17 it's not clear to me what it is, to 18 investigate the situation because it provides 19 that the police can't hold someone unless they 20 believe the person poses a threat to the 21 safety of the citizens of the state. 22 Obviously there's some sort of an inquiry that 23 is suggested there; they have to conduct some 24 sort of investigation to determine if that 25 person poses a threat to the safety of the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 citizens of the state. 2 Then the State Police have the same 3 obligation imposed under law that the college 4 already fulfilled, to report to the federal 5 government. 6 So I respectfully submit that this 7 is a mess. This is not something that makes 8 our state safer, this is something that 9 creates more confusion. 10 We have, again, a situation here 11 where we are monitoring hundreds of thousands 12 of people, and in New York State I believe we 13 have in excess of 70,000 foreign students now 14 studying in our colleges and universities. 15 Many of them make major contributions, are 16 outstanding students. 17 We're setting up a system to 18 monitor the activities of thousands of 19 law-abiding students who are here to pursue an 20 education. And many of them stay in this 21 country and contribute substantially to the 22 welfare of our state and of our nation. 23 We shouldn't be creating a second 24 system that has the tremendous potential to 25 inconvenience these people, to have people

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 wrongfully held when they shouldn't be held, 2 to have investigations opened on people who 3 simply are going to a different school than we 4 expect them. 5 And there is no real guidance -- if 6 I was a state police, I certainly wouldn't 7 support this. I don't know what my obligation 8 is other than this duplicative requirement to 9 report to the federal government and to 10 undertake some sort of an inquiry as to 11 whether students who don't show up for class 12 constitute a threat to the safety of the 13 citizens of the state. 14 So for all of the reasons stated in 15 last year's debate and the other reasons that 16 we've identified here, I just don't think this 17 legislation as drafted gets the job done. 18 I think we should be working with 19 the federal government, we should trying to 20 support our colleges and universities in their 21 already substantial obligation to collect data 22 and report to the federal system. We're not 23 providing them enough money for that, much 24 less the money to impose a simultaneous 25 requirement that they also report to the State

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Police and that the State Police undertake 2 some unspecified form of investigation. And 3 the colleges and universities under this bill 4 are at risk of fines and other penalties. 5 So I don't think this is going to 6 make us safer, I think it is going to make 7 things more confused. I think it creates the 8 potential for innocent people -- whether 9 administrators of colleges, foreign students, 10 or overwhelmed state troopers trying to figure 11 out what student that was late for class is a 12 threat to the safety of the citizens -- to 13 suffer an undue burden. We shouldn't be 14 imposing more mandates unless they are very 15 carefully thought through on our colleges and 16 universities and on our State Police. 17 For that reason and for the others 18 stated, Madam President, I'm going to be 19 voting no on this bill. Again, with due 20 regard for the seriousness of the issue and 21 for the sponsor's sincere efforts to redraft 22 the legislation to make it work better, I 23 still think we have another round of 24 redrafting to do. 25 Thank you.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 2 Hassell-Thompson. 3 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank 4 you, Madam President. Just a couple of quick 5 questions, if the Senator would yield. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator LaValle, 7 will you yield for a question? 8 SENATOR LaVALLE: Yes. 9 THE PRESIDENT: He does yield. 10 You may proceed, Senator. 11 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank 12 you, Madam President. 13 We've just heard from Senator 14 Schneiderman that the federal law already 15 requires reporting requirements for our 16 students. The question that I need to ask is, 17 is there anything in the New York State law 18 that impedes the federal statute or the 19 process? 20 In other words, if there is a 21 federal regulation that we track students and 22 this information is already readily available 23 and it's on a computer system that our 24 New York State Police can access, why is -- 25 what is it that makes us need something

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 separate, something different? 2 SENATOR LaVALLE: Senator, I 3 think that we are trying to make this as easy 4 as possible for our law enforcement people. 5 I think if we really cut to the 6 chase on this, you know, I could make all the 7 changes incorporated that various members 8 would want and I'm afraid that there would 9 always be a reason not to vote for this bill. 10 I think it's more of a philosophical 11 difference or an approach than the nuts and 12 bolts in this. 13 I believe, as the sponsor, there 14 are other states, you heard, that give to 15 their state police the information. It's very 16 simple. There's nothing confusing about it. 17 Senator Schneiderman thinks this legislation 18 is confusing. There's nothing confusing about 19 it. Straightforward. Straightforward. You 20 give information to the federal government, 21 you send a copy to the State Police. It's not 22 a big deal. There's nothing confusing about 23 that. Nothing. 24 I believe that, and it's fine, 25 people have different philosophical approaches

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 in terms of policy and who that should impact 2 or who that should not impact. I, as the 3 sponsor, believe that, given the time that we 4 live in, that there's nothing wrong with 5 giving some of the best-trained law 6 enforcement people in the country, our 7 New York State Police, information, more 8 information. It's like, to me, it's a 9 no-brainer. I mean, I don't understand what 10 the big deal is. 11 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Madam 12 President, if the sponsor would continue to 13 yield. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Senator LaValle, 15 will you yield for a question? 16 SENATOR LaVALLE: Yes, I do. 17 THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed. 18 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: 19 Senator LaValle, take my question separate 20 from the discussion that you had with Senator 21 Schneiderman. My question had nothing to do 22 with fixing or tampering. 23 My question simply was, is there 24 anything -- 25 SENATOR LaVALLE: And the answer

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 is no, there is nothing. 2 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Okay, 3 the simple answer is no, there is nothing in 4 the New York State law that would impede the 5 to use the process that's already in place by 6 the federal statute? That's the question. 7 SENATOR LaVALLE: Your question 8 presupposes that the State Police have access, 9 can have access into the federal system, and 10 that is not clear, whether they can retrieve 11 that information. 12 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: All 13 right, that's the basis, Madam President. If 14 the sponsor would continue to yield. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator LaValle, 16 will you yield for another question? 17 SENATOR LaVALLE: Yes. 18 THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed 19 with a question. 20 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Okay, 21 that's the basis of my question. 22 Because my understanding is there's 23 something called SEVIS, which is a system by 24 which the federal government makes -- has 25 available to it information about every

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 foreign student, and that is information that 2 currently is available and could be accessible 3 by the State Police. 4 But if you're telling me that 5 there's something in the New York State 6 statute that does not make that process 7 simplified, then I can agree that this bill is 8 necessary. 9 SENATOR LaVALLE: I have been 10 told that it simply is not. 11 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Okay. 12 Thank you, Madam President. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Does any other 14 member wish to be heard? 15 Senator Stavisky, first, and then 16 Senator Volker. 17 SENATOR STAVISKY: Madam 18 President, on the bill. 19 THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed 20 on the bill. 21 SENATOR STAVISKY: It seems to me 22 that the purposes of the colleges and 23 universities is to educate our students under 24 the supervision and direction of the State 25 Education Department and, by implication, the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Regents. And the purpose of the Department of 2 Homeland Security is to protect us. 3 And I think we ought to let each 4 one do their job. This information about 5 foreign students is available through the 6 SEVIS system, from what I understand. Whether 7 it's in the same format as the State Police 8 would like to receive it seems to be under 9 dispute. 10 But it seems to me that by placing 11 an additional burden on the colleges and 12 universities, we're just making it more 13 difficult for them to do their job and for the 14 State Education Department to do its job. And 15 for that reason, I plan to vote no. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Volker. 17 SENATOR VOLKER: Madam 18 President -- and I hesitate to say this, but 19 in behalf of Senator Balboni and myself -- 20 who's not here -- this is a homeland security 21 problem that we're just getting into now. 22 We do not have direct access to 23 SEVIS. The problem with the homeland security 24 system is we are just developing it. I mean, 25 the -- I realize that CUNY in particular is

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 just supersensitive to anything that deals 2 with foreign students. And we understand 3 that. There's lots of reasons for it. And 4 SUNY is not as sensitive. And lobbyists for 5 CUNY immediately say this has got to be some 6 sort of plot. And I understand it. 7 The problem here is we know, there 8 is no question that al-Qaida has been 9 directing certain people into this country -- 10 not just students, a lot of other people. We 11 have all sorts of information that they are 12 sending people in here under pretext. 13 Now, all that happens with this 14 bill is that we develop -- I think 15 temporarily, because at some point we'll have 16 a seamless system. But it isn't going to be 17 for a long time. And the reason is that the 18 whole homeland security system, we hate to 19 admit this, we probably have the best so far 20 in the country, we are reputed. Which is 21 scary to us, because we think we're just in 22 our infancy. 23 This budget, by the way, has the 24 first major increase in homeland security 25 money by the state ever, really. Because most

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 of the money is federal. And I can tell you 2 some things about some of the stuff that are 3 in the budget that are federally reimbursable 4 that we don't even seem to know. But that's 5 neither here nor there. 6 But the problem here is, what's 7 going to happen here is, in my opinion, it's 8 going to be more of a problem if we don't do 9 this for students. Because you're going to 10 have counter-referencing back through the 11 State Police from the feds. You're better off 12 to have the State Police have this information 13 so that they don't get into problems with 14 certain students. That's my opinion. 15 Personally, I would rather have 16 this information go to homeland security 17 directly, but we are not capable right now. 18 Our computers and all the rest of the stuff, 19 you can't feed this stuff around in a big 20 circle yet. It's going to take a few years. 21 At some point the federal government will be 22 able, it seems to me, to develop a seamless 23 process. Right now, if you try to get 24 information out of the federal government on a 25 quick basis, you're going to have a devil of a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 time, I'll tell you. Unless it turns out to 2 be somebody who is named as a bomber or 3 something like that, which is not very likely. 4 We're talking about people who may 5 be bothered, by the way, by law enforcement 6 people simply because they may not be in 7 school for a while if you don't have 8 information on them. Personally, I think this 9 is to advantage for some of the people who may 10 get sick, or whatever, and leave. I don't 11 think the people realize the sensitivity here. 12 We're a state that has already been 13 under attack. Many people believe that it's 14 inevitable that at some point it's going to 15 happen again. God forbid. If we are going to 16 protect ourselves, we have to do some things 17 that are somewhat distasteful to us but do it 18 in the best and most benign way. 19 I don't see -- this is not as if 20 the State Police are going to run out and pick 21 up people. All they want to do is have the 22 information. 23 Classic example, there has been a 24 case like this where a student was in a 25 university, left the university, in effect was

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 gone for two months, was picked up in a van 2 with a known terrorist and with the 3 possibility of bomb-making material. There 4 was no information on that student. Nothing. 5 If the State Police had this 6 information, they'd know right away that that 7 student hadn't been in school for four weeks 8 or whatever, and you wouldn't have to feed it 9 back through the FBI and get it out of the 10 national Homeland Security Department. We 11 still don't have a seamless system. It will 12 probably be years before we develop a seamless 13 system. 14 So I think Senator LaValle's bill 15 is, frankly, an excellent bill. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 17 Marcellino. 18 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you. 19 Just briefly on the bill. 20 This bill is an extremely important 21 bill, in my mind. And I thank Senator LaValle 22 for introducing it and bringing it back again, 23 because he's doing a great service. 24 The students we're talking about 25 are people who made a deal, they made a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 contract with this country. The contract was 2 for admission into the country. They were 3 going to go to a school in this country and 4 get an education. 5 They've broken their contract. In 6 many cases they don't even show up. They 7 don't go near the school. The school reserved 8 a spot for them, a spot someone else could 9 have taken, someone who wanted an education 10 could have had. But because these students 11 had that spot, blocked it out, another person 12 can't get in. 13 They're doing the disservice. 14 They're breaking the law. They've broken the 15 law of the United States. If you're going to 16 come here, you've got a visa, the visa has a 17 purpose, there's a time limit on it, you must 18 obey the law. We're making a mockery of our 19 system of laws, we're making a mockery of our 20 schools, who just take the money. 21 What inconvenience the school has, 22 to provide the government with a list of 23 students who are supposed to be enrolled and 24 then didn't? I don't understand the 25 inconvenience. We don't know where these

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 students are, we don't know -- calling them a 2 student is a misnomer. We don't even know 3 where anybody is. 4 Let's find them. And if they're 5 going to go to school, fine. If they're not, 6 they should leave the country. They don't 7 belong here. It's as simple as that. They're 8 welcome if they come and go to school for the 9 purpose they're supposed to be. But if 10 they're not, go home. 11 I don't think that's a big deal. I 12 don't think that's an inconvenience on 13 anybody. I don't think it's taking away 14 anybody's rights. It's protecting this 15 country. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Any other member 17 wish to be heard? 18 Then the debate is closed. 19 The Secretary will ring the bell. 20 Read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect on the first of August. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 24 (The Secretary called the roll.) 25 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Padavan,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 to explain your vote. 2 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, 3 Madam President. 4 Many have said that there are tens 5 of thousands of young people from all over the 6 world attending colleges and universities in 7 this country, and I think basically and 8 fundamentally that's a good thing. It's a 9 good thing in terms of worldwide communication 10 of what this nation is all about, it's a good 11 thing in terms of our global economy. It has 12 many positive aspects to it. 13 Indeed, many of our young people do 14 a college semester, or sometimes even longer, 15 in universities throughout the world. My 16 daughter was one of them. She did two years 17 in a graduate degree in Spain. 18 Let me tell you the requirements 19 that exist in Spain. Not only did she have to 20 get a visa, go to the Spanish embassy, provide 21 a health document, a verification of economic 22 support and a bunch of other things, but every 23 three months in Madrid, Spain, she had to make 24 her presence known, as a student, to the local 25 police department, physically had to go there.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 So this is not a unique requirement 2 in any respect. And the bill makes sense. 3 But in another way, it doesn't go 4 far enough. We know there are thousands and 5 thousands of foreign students in our colleges 6 and universities here in New York City and 7 New York State who do not have student visas. 8 They are simply here and enrolled. 9 And if you want to verify that 10 fact, ask CUNY to give, as they gave to me, 11 their internal survey and look at the student 12 application which says: Are you a citizen or 13 not, yes or no? And if you say no, that's it, 14 you still get enrolled. 15 Now, what are we doing about that? 16 Absolutely nothing. Absolutely nothing. 17 This bill at least deals with a 18 part of the issue, provides some reporting 19 mechanism. And perhaps if it's implemented, 20 we could expand it to those who are on the 21 campuses of our schools in this state without 22 even a student visa. Because to me that 23 presents even a more difficult situation to 24 accept, and perhaps a more potential problem. 25 I vote aye.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 THE PRESIDENT: You will be so 2 recorded as voting in the affirmative, Senator 3 Padavan. 4 The Secretary will announce the 5 results. 6 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 7 the negative on Calendar Number 192 are 8 Senators Andrews, Breslin, Brown, Diaz, Duane, 9 Gonzalez, Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, 10 C. Kruger, Montgomery, Paterson, Sabini, 11 Sampson, Savino, Serrano, A. Smith, M. Smith 12 and Stavisky. 13 Those Senators absent from voting: 14 Bonacic, Connor, Dilan and Parker. 15 Also in the negative, Senator 16 Schneiderman. 17 Ayes, 36. Nays, 19. 18 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 19 passed. 20 The Secretary will continue to 21 read. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 345, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 3157, an 24 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 25 sentencing.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: 2 Explanation. 3 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos, 4 an explanation has been requested. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 6 this legislation would authorize the 7 imposition of a sentence of life imprisonment 8 without the possibility of parole for 9 persistent violent felony offenders convicted 10 of a violent felony offense when such person 11 has been previously been subject to two or 12 more predicate violent felony convictions 13 within a ten-year period. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 15 Montgomery. 16 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Madam 17 President, I would like to know if the sponsor 18 would yield for a question. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos, 20 do you yield? 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Yes, Madam 22 President. 23 THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed 24 with a question, Senator. 25 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Skelos, I note that among the charges 2 that qualify under this three-strikes 3 legislation is second-degree robbery, 4 burglary, assault. 5 So is it true that this would cover 6 those kinds of charges on a "three strikes and 7 you're in for life" basis? 8 SENATOR SKELOS: It's listed 9 under that section of the law, yes. 10 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Under that 11 section, all right. 12 Thank you, Madam President. 13 And I note that I have opposed this 14 legislation in the past. I think we should 15 look to other states where they have this kind 16 of law, particularly California, where the 17 prisons are overflowing, bulging with people 18 who have essentially stolen a pair of 19 dungarees as their third offense, and they're 20 in for life. 21 So I think that this really is over 22 the top. We are going way beyond what is 23 required in order to deal with some of the 24 areas of crime that are covered under this. 25 There are much better, less costly to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 taxpayers and more effective ways of dealing 2 with this. 3 So I'm going to continue to oppose 4 this legislation. I think for the -- for our 5 state, the benefit of our state's economy, we 6 cannot afford to go into a criminal justice 7 program that essentially in the long run will 8 bankrupt us. So I'm voting no on this. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Does any other 10 member wish to be heard? 11 Then the debate is closed. 12 The Secretary will ring the bell. 13 Read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 15 act shall take effect on the first of 16 November. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Diaz, to 20 explain your vote. 21 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, Madam 22 President. 23 Besides being a state senator, I am 24 also a pastor of a church. And I believe in 25 pardons, and I believe in people being --

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 people changing their life. 2 However, I also, when I took my 3 duty as a senator, I took it because there's 4 crimes in the city, criminals are coming into 5 their own, and there was no end to it. 6 And I believe a person that has 7 been found guilty of a felony and that that 8 person will become a violent felony offender, 9 and for that to happen, that person is 10 supposed to be guilty of kidnapping, 11 first-degree rape or sodomy, first- or 12 second-degree, robbery, burglary, assault or 13 aggravated sexual abuse. 14 Three times being convicted, a 15 person like that, I think that that person 16 should be taken out of the street for the 17 better and for the good of the rest of the 18 community. 19 I gladly support this bill, and I 20 praise Senator Skelos for such a bill. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Diaz, you 22 will be recorded as voting in the affirmative. 23 The Secretary will announce the 24 results. 25 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 the negative on Calendar Number 345 are 2 Senators Andrews, Duane, Hassell-Thompson, 3 L. Krueger, Montgomery, Paterson, 4 Schneiderman, Serrano and A. Smith. 5 Those Senators absent from voting: 6 Connor, Dilan and Parker. Also Senator 7 Bonacic. 8 Ayes, 46. Nays, 9. 9 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 10 passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 347, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3256, an 13 act to amend the Penal Law and the Criminal 14 Procedure Law, in relation to term of 15 imprisonment. 16 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: 17 Explanation. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Volker, 19 Senator Schneiderman has requested an 20 explanation. 21 SENATOR VOLKER: Madam President, 22 colleagues, this is a bill -- and probably the 23 last time you'll see this bill -- very close 24 to the bill that was sponsored just before. 25 The fascinating part of this bill

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 is it's been around since 1995. It is, I 2 believe, the original "three times and you're 3 out" bill, which my former counsel and I just 4 figured Ken Connolly, who's here and went to 5 DCJS, and he's now retired back with us, I 6 believe drafted this bill. 7 If you read the memo -- and I would 8 ask my colleagues to read the memo, because 9 the reason it's important is that this is a 10 crossover memo and shows where we have come in 11 the last ten years since we have passed tough 12 legislation, the death penalty and all sorts 13 of legislation dealing with tough criminal 14 statutes and at the same time dealing with the 15 issue of what we call nonviolent crimes. 16 At the time of this bill, the 17 prison population was at about 74,000 to 18 75,000 or higher. It is now in the lower 60s. 19 This is a three-times-and-you're-out bill. 20 Joe Morelle sponsors it in the Assembly. Its 21 passed this house every year since '95. 22 It, as I say, was a changeover 23 because, if you look at the previous penalties 24 for three-times-and-you're-out, they were 25 much, much more lenient. We have actually

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 done upgrades in a whole series of areas since 2 then. And now Senator Skelos, my colleague, 3 has what I call the main bill. 4 But there's a reason that I thought 5 it was important to at least put this bill 6 out. It really outlines what this house has 7 been doing over the last ten years in criminal 8 justice to deal with the criminal problem and 9 what Governor Pataki has helped us to do. 10 So my personal opinion is this 11 still is a valid bill. However, it is very, 12 very close to Senator Skelos's. And I thought 13 that we should at least put this bill onto the 14 floor. And as I say, I would just ask my 15 colleagues to keep the memo on this bill as 16 one of the longest standing bills in my 17 committee. It's about to eventually see its 18 demise. 19 But it's amazing how time has 20 changed and changed our criminal justice 21 system in this state. And we would hope that 22 we don't make foolish attempts, like some 23 people in the Assembly would have us do, to 24 denigrate the criminal justice system and take 25 us back to the bad old days when we had

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 75,000 inmates and we had people coming in and 2 out of prison every other day, and when the 3 violent prison population was 23 percent 4 instead of 75 percent, as it is today. 5 So I just want to say to people, 6 you can criticize this bill and its intent and 7 all that, but a lot of the things that are in 8 this bill have happened under the present 9 Governor, and with the help of this Senate. 10 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 11 Schneiderman. 12 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 13 Madam President. 14 I must rise with respect to the 15 bill memo and the bill. This demonstrates the 16 point I was making earlier with regard to 17 Senator LaValle's bill. I appreciate him 18 updating his legislation. 19 This bill memo is 10 years old. It 20 states, in justification for the bill we're 21 voting on now, "Unmistakably, crimes of 22 violence in this state are on the rise. Each 23 day our court dockets are filled with greater 24 and greater numbers of cases charging offenses 25 that are striking in their savagery and

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 chilling in their randomness." 2 That was 10 years ago. 3 Unmistakably, crimes of violence in this state 4 are on the decline. The prison population is 5 going down. We have had extraordinary success 6 through, I would respectfully submit, the 7 actions of the police and through better 8 policing policies primarily, but we've done it 9 without a "three strikes and you're out" 10 policy. 11 We've done much better than 12 California during that period, which does have 13 a "three strikes and you're out" policy. 14 We've done it without the death penalty, and 15 we've done much better than states that have 16 the death penalty. 17 So, look, I support Senator 18 Volker's effort to get this bill into the 19 one-house-wonders hall of fame. This has been 20 here with us for longer than I have been here. 21 I think it's -- it made the point. But the 22 point that is made really more articulately 23 than any other by this is let's think 24 carefully. Things that appear to be tougher 25 on crime are not necessarily the things that

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 result in a reduction of crime. Let's think 2 carefully as we apply serious sanctions to our 3 citizens. 4 I'm pleased to be able to speak at 5 the memorial for this bill. I look forward to 6 further improvements in our criminal justice 7 system. We don't need a "three strikes and 8 you're out" policy to reduce crime in this 9 state. That's what proved by how outdated 10 this bill memo is. 11 Thank you, Madam President. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Does any other 13 member wish to be heard? 14 Then the debate is closed. 15 The Secretary will ring the bell. 16 Read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 22 DeFrancisco, to explain your vote. 23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. I'm 24 going to vote no on this bill, not because of 25 the "three strikes and you're out" provision,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 but there's a provision in here that prohibits 2 plea bargaining down from a violent felony 3 offense if this happens to be the third 4 violent felony offense that someone is 5 indicted for. 6 That, to me, really restricts the 7 hand of the prosecutor. You may very well 8 want to charge somebody, you think you have a 9 case, a violent felony offense, and then when 10 you start the trial you may find out that you 11 don't have one. 12 So what does the prosecutor do at 13 that point? Simply continue on with an 14 offense and not reduce it and end up with a 15 possible not-guilty finding. 16 So I think restricting plea 17 bargaining really restricts the hand of the 18 prosecutor, and I don't think that should in 19 this bill. So I'm going to vote no for that 20 reason. 21 THE PRESIDENT: You will be so 22 recorded as voting in the negative, Senator 23 DeFrancisco. 24 Senator Volker. 25 SENATOR VOLKER: To explain my

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 vote. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Volker, 3 to explain his vote. 4 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator 5 DeFrancisco, if I just might say that I think 6 you're right. When I was doing defense work 7 many years ago, as I did for some time, I 8 probably would have agreed with you. 9 But now that I'm not doing any more 10 defense work, I'm going to vote aye. 11 (Laughter.) 12 THE PRESIDENT: So we will record 13 you as voting in the affirmative, Senator 14 Volker. 15 Senator Diaz, to explain your vote. 16 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, Madam 17 President. 18 Again, as I said before, I'm a 19 pastor of a church. A few months ago, Sunday, 20 a member, a lady member of my church coming to 21 the church, on her way to a church, a 22 criminal, a criminal came running after her 23 with a knife and slashed her face. One 24 hundred stitches was taken in her face. 25 And then I come here and I got

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 elected, and when I got elected, part of my 2 campaign was that I would protect the victims, 3 not the criminals. And that I would do 4 everything possible to send criminals to jail. 5 Because criminals don't deserve to be in the 6 street. 7 And we, when we go out there 8 campaigning, we're saying: Vote for me 9 because I will fight crimes and I will bring 10 safer streets and whatever. And then when we 11 come here, the whole thing changes. 12 It doesn't matter how long a bill 13 has been put in here. It doesn't matter how 14 long. That doesn't make wrong -- that doesn't 15 make a person wrong because the bill doesn't 16 pass. Or sometimes it doesn't make it right 17 if the bill passes. 18 What makes it right is your 19 position against crime. And I hope that we 20 are here -- all of us, Democrat, Republican -- 21 that when we got elected, we got elected to 22 protect the victims, not the criminals. And 23 that's why I'm voting yes for this bill. 24 THE PRESIDENT: You will be 25 recorded as voting in the affirmative,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator. 2 The Secretary will announce the 3 results. 4 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 5 the negative on Calendar Number 347 are 6 Senators Andrews, DeFrancisco, Duane, 7 Gonzalez, L. Krueger, Montgomery, Paterson, 8 Schneiderman, Serrano. Also Senator 9 Hassell-Thompson. 10 Those Senators absent from voting 11 on Calendar Number 347 are Senators Bonacic, 12 Connor and Parker. 13 Ayes, 46. Nays, 10. 14 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 15 passed. 16 Senator Skelos, that completes the 17 controversial reading of the calendar. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, Madam 19 President. 20 There will be an immediate meeting 21 of the Rules Committee in the Majority 22 Conference Room. 23 THE PRESIDENT: There will be an 24 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in 25 the Majority Conference Room.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Dilan. 2 SENATOR DILAN: Madam President, 3 I just want to go on the record that had I 4 been present for Calendar Number 192 -- 5 THE PRESIDENT: If the members 6 would please refrain from conversing in 7 chamber. 8 SENATOR DILAN: Had I been 9 present for Calendars 192 and 345, I would 10 have cast my vote in the negative. 11 THE PRESIDENT: The record will 12 so reflect that, Senator. 13 SENATOR DILAN: Thank you. 14 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate stands 15 at ease. 16 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 17 ease at 4:34 p.m.) 18 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened 19 at 4:38 p.m.) 20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 21 Marcellino. 22 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Madam 23 President, can we return to reports of 24 standing committees, please. 25 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 will read reports of standing committees. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 3 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 4 following bill direct to third reading: 5 Senate Print 3685A, by Senator 6 Skelos, an act to amend the Executive Law. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 8 Marcellino. 9 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Madam 10 President, is there any further business at 11 the desk? I believe you do have a motion, if 12 we could proceed with that. 13 But first, I move to accept the 14 Rules report. 15 THE PRESIDENT: All in favor of 16 accepting the Rules Committee report please 17 signify by saying aye. 18 (Response of "Aye.") 19 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay. 20 (Response of "Nay.") 21 THE PRESIDENT: The report is 22 accepted. 23 Senator Breslin. 24 SENATOR BRESLIN: I believe, 25 Madam President, there's a motion at the desk.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 THE PRESIDENT: Yes, there is, 2 Senator. 3 SENATOR BRESLIN: And can I be 4 heard on that motion. 5 THE PRESIDENT: You may. 6 SENATOR BRESLIN: This is a 7 motion that I've made in the past. It's to 8 put -- 9 THE PRESIDENT: Senator, first 10 the Secretary has to read the motion. 11 SENATOR BRESLIN: Excuse me. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you. 13 The Secretary will read. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senate Print 15 2480, by Senator Breslin, an act to amend the 16 Social Services Law. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Breslin. 18 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you, 19 Madam President. 20 This is a motion I've made in the 21 past, and it's to put what we refer to as a 22 hard cap on Medicaid. 23 This year, in this latest budget 24 this past week, we put a soft cap on it. We 25 talked about annual growth factors of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 3.5 percent in 2006, going to 3.25 the next 2 year and then down to 3. The Governor, 3 subsequent to the budget, talked about 4 tinkering with that and making some changes. 5 The county executives in the 6 counties throughout this state, they do want a 7 change. They want one single change to cap 8 Medicaid and hopefully to cap Medicaid at this 9 year's level, at 2004 levels. 10 Why do they need a cap? Most of 11 the counties in the State of New York had over 12 a 15 percent tax increase last year. 13 Eighty-five percent of all property taxes that 14 go to Medicaid across this country come from 15 New York State. The remaining states, 16 15 percent. 17 Counties like Albany spend more 18 than a hundred percent of their property tax 19 on Medicaid. 20 The only way to give relief to the 21 property taxpayer, the middle-income people, 22 the people on fixed incomes, retired people, 23 is to make sure we're not passing down the 24 mandates. And how do we do that? We put the 25 hard cap on Medicaid.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 You talk to county executive after 2 county executive, they're happy we did 3 something this year. Do they think it will 4 work in their county? No. They have serious, 5 serious doubts. 6 And I believe that everybody, on 7 both sides of this aisle, really believe that 8 it's up to us. We're the ones that have 9 passed those mandates down to the county. And 10 we're the only ones that can rectify it. And 11 we can rectify it on by putting a cap on 12 Medicaid on the 2004 levels. 13 And I urge everyone to support this 14 motion. 15 THE PRESIDENT: All the Senators 16 in agreement please signify by raising your 17 hands. 18 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 19 agreement are Senators Andrews, Breslin, 20 Brown, Diaz, Dilan, Duane, Gonzalez, 21 Hassell-Thompson, Klein, L. Krueger, 22 C. Kruger, Montgomery, Onorato, Paterson, 23 Sabini, Sampson, Savino, Schneiderman, 24 Serrano, A. Smith, M. Smith, Stachowski, 25 Stavisky and Valesky.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 THE PRESIDENT: The petition is 2 not agreed to. 3 Senator Marcellino. 4 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Is there any 5 further business, Madam President? 6 THE PRESIDENT: No, there isn't, 7 Senator Marcellino. 8 SENATOR MARCELLINO: There being 9 no further business, I move we adjourn in the 10 name of Patricia K. McGee until Tuesday, 11 April 5th, at 3:00 p.m. 12 THE PRESIDENT: On motion, the 13 Senate stands adjourned in friendship, love 14 and respect for Senator Patricia McGee, until 15 Tuesday, April 5th, at 3:00 p.m. 16 (Whereupon, at 4:44 p.m., the 17 Senate adjourned.) 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910