Tuesday, June 21, 2005

1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE 2 3 4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 June 21, 2005 11 11:11 a.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President 19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24 25

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(518) 371-8910 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 3 Senate will come to order. 4 I ask everyone present to please 5 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of 6 Allegiance. 7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: In the 10 absence of clergy, may we bow our heads in a 11 moment of silence. 12 (Whereupon, the assemblage 13 respected a moment of silence.) 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Reading 15 of the Journal. 16 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 17 Monday, June 20, the Senate met pursuant to 18 adjournment. The Journal of Sunday, June 19, 19 was read and approved. On motion, Senate 20 adjourned. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Without 22 objection, the Journal stands approved as 23 read. 24 Presentation of petitions. 25 Messages from the Assembly.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Messages from the Governor. 2 Reports of standing committees. 3 Reports of select committees. 4 Communications and reports from 5 state officers. 6 Motions and resolutions. 7 Senator Fuschillo. 8 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Madam 9 President, on behalf of Senator Balboni, on 10 page number 47, I offer the following 11 amendments to Calendar Number 1331, Senate 12 Print Number 186B, and ask that said bill 13 retain its place on Third Reading Calendar. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 15 amendments are received, and the bill will 16 retain its place on the Third Reading 17 Calendar. 18 Senator Fuschillo. 19 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Are there any 20 substitutions at the desk? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Yes, 22 Senator. 23 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: If you would 24 please take them up. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The

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(518) 371-8910 1 Secretary will read. 2 THE SECRETARY: On page 19, 3 Senator Robach moves to discharge, from the 4 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 7187 5 and substitute it for the identical Senate 6 Bill Number 4216, Third Reading Calendar 645. 7 On page 20, Senator Maziarz moves 8 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 9 Assembly Bill Number 2676 and substitute it 10 for the identical Senate Bill Number 4881, 11 Third Reading Calendar 687. 12 On page 21, Senator Maltese moves 13 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 14 Assembly Bill Number 1280B and substitute it 15 for the identical Senate Bill Number 2517B, 16 Third Reading Calendar 695. 17 On page 22, Senator Volker moves to 18 discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 19 Assembly Bill Number 2349B and substitute it 20 for the identical Senate Bill Number 1219A, 21 Third Reading Calendar 731. 22 On page 25, Senator Balboni moves 23 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 24 Assembly Bill Number 6362B and substitute it 25 for the identical Senate Bill Number 4289B,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Third Reading Calendar 783. 2 On page 26, Senator Wright moves to 3 discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 4 Assembly Bill Number 5608B and substitute it 5 for the identical Senate Bill Number 3249B, 6 Third Reading Calendar 810. 7 On page 30, Senator Volker moves to 8 discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 9 Assembly Bill Number 8178B and substitute it 10 for the identical Senate Bill Number 4343B, 11 Third Reading Calendar 898. 12 On page 31, Senator Valesky moves 13 to discharge, from the Committee on Local 14 Government, Assembly Bill Number 3652A and 15 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 16 Number 1738A, Third Reading Calendar 937. 17 On page 34, Senator Alesi moves to 18 discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 19 Assembly Bill Number 7925A and substitute it 20 for the identical Senate Bill Number 1075A, 21 Third Reading Calendar 1010. 22 On page 37, Senator Robach moves to 23 discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 24 Assembly Bill Number 7059 and substitute it 25 for the identical Senate Bill Number 3187,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Third Reading Calendar 1081. 2 On page 40, Senator Golden moves to 3 discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 4 Assembly Bill Number 5957A and substitute it 5 for the identical Senate Bill Number 4089B, 6 Third Reading Calendar 1178. 7 On page 40, Senator Saland moves to 8 discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 9 Assembly Bill Number 75A and substitute it for 10 the identical Senate Bill Number 4225A, Third 11 Reading Calendar 1180. 12 On page 41, Senator Saland moves to 13 discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 14 Assembly Bill Number 6082B and substitute it 15 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5050A, 16 Third Reading Calendar 1190. 17 On page 42, Senator Maziarz moves 18 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 19 Assembly Bill Number 5394A and substitute it 20 for the identical Senate Bill Number 4476A, 21 Third Reading Calendar 1222. 22 On page 45, Senator Marcellino 23 moves to discharge, from the Committee on 24 Rules, Assembly Bill Number 6761B and 25 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill

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(518) 371-8910 1 Number 890B, Third Reading Calendar 1267. 2 On page 45, Senator Volker moves to 3 discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 4 Assembly Bill Number 7020 and substitute it 5 for the identical Senate Bill Number 3118, 6 Third Reading Calendar 1279. 7 On page 48, Senator Skelos moves to 8 discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 9 Assembly Bill Number 4466A and substitute it 10 for the identical Senate Bill Number 4811A, 11 Third Reading Calendar 1369. 12 And on page 51, Senator Skelos 13 moves to discharge, from the Committee on 14 Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8737 and 15 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 16 Number 5659, Third Reading Calendar 1567. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: 18 Substitutions ordered. 19 Senator Fuschillo. 20 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Madam 21 President, please adopt the Resolution 22 Calendar, with the exception of Resolution 23 2529. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: All in 25 favor of adopting the Resolution Calendar,

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(518) 371-8910 1 with the exception of Resolution Number 2529, 2 signify by saying aye. 3 (Response of "Aye.") 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: 5 Opposed, nay. 6 (No response.) 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 8 Resolution Calendar is adopted. 9 Senator Fuschillo. 10 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Madam 11 President, may we please have the reading of 12 the noncontroversial calendar. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 14 Secretary will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 63, by Senator Little, Senate Print 1052, an 17 act to amend the Environmental Conservation 18 Law. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: There 20 is a local fiscal impact statement at the 21 desk. 22 Read the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 24 act shall take effect immediately. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call

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(518) 371-8910 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 39. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 113, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 8 1771B, an act to amend the Public Health Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 10 the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 14 the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 39. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 18 bill is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 114, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 21 217A, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic 22 Law. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 24 the last section. 25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This

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(518) 371-8910 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 39. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 211, by Senator Sampson, Senate Print 742, an 10 act to amend the Penal Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 14 act shall take effect on the 90th day. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 41. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 318, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 3344A, 23 an act to amend the General Business Law. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 25 the last section.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 41. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 319, by Member of the Assembly Brennan, 11 Assembly Print Number 4254A, an act to amend 12 the State Technology Law and the General 13 Business Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 17 act shall take effect on the 120th day. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 41. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 23 bill is passed. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 411, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 495A, an

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(518) 371-8910 1 act to amend the Correction Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 41. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 460, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 2899, an 14 act to amend the Penal Law. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 16 the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect on the first of 19 November. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 21 the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 42. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 25 bill is passed.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 508, by Member of the Assembly Parment, 3 Assembly Print Number 6353, an act to amend 4 the Tax Law. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: There 6 is a local fiscal impact statement at the 7 desk. 8 Read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 12 the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 41. Nays, 15 1. Senator Valesky recorded in the negative. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 17 bill is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 523, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 2321, an 20 act to amend the General Municipal Law. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: There 22 is a local fiscal impact note at the desk. 23 Read the last section. 24 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 25 act shall take effect immediately.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 42. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 548, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3744A, 9 an act to amend the Education Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 42. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 713, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1003, an 22 act to amend the Penal Law. 23 SENATOR SABINI: Lay it aside. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 25 bill is laid aside.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 729, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 268A, an 3 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect on the 120th day. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 781, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 16 Print Number 4079A, an act to amend the Tax 17 Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 23 the roll. 24 (The Secretary called the roll.) 25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 2 bill is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 801, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 4775A, 5 an act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 7 the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 816, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 4537A, 18 an act to amend the Not-For-Profit Corporation 19 Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 23 act shall take effect on the 60th day. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 25 the roll.

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(518) 371-8910 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 837, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 4388A, an 7 act to amend Chapter 223 of the Laws of 1996. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 17 bill is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 840, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 419A, an 20 act to amend the Education Law. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 24 act shall take effect on the 180th day. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call

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(518) 371-8910 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 875, by Member of the Assembly Tonko, Assembly 8 Print Number 8176, an act to amend the 9 Long-Term Care Integration and Finance Act of 10 1997. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 12 the last section. 13 SENATOR SABINI: Lay it aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 15 bill is laid aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 898, substituted earlier today by Member of 18 the Assembly A. Cohen, Assembly Print Number 19 8178B, an act to amend the Civil Practice Law 20 and Rules. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 24 act shall take effect on the first of January 25 next succeeding.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 990, by Member of the Assembly Gottfried, 9 Assembly Print Number 6620, an act to amend 10 Chapter 521 of the Laws of 1994. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 962, by Member of the Assembly Thiele, 23 Assembly Print Number 7469B, an act to 24 authorize the Independent Group Home Living 25 Program, Inc.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 10 bill is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 997, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 3335, an 13 act -- 14 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Lay it aside 15 for the day, please. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 17 bill is laid aside for the day. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1010, substituted earlier today by Member of 20 the Assembly Lafayette, Assembly Print Number 21 7925A, an act to amend the General Business 22 Law. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 24 the last section. 25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This

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(518) 371-8910 1 act shall take effect on the 180th day. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1020, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 5178, 10 an act to amend the General Business Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 20 bill is passed. 21 The Secretary will read Calendar 22 Number 989. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 989, by Member of the Assembly Gottfried, 25 Assembly Print Number 6618, an act to amend

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(518) 371-8910 1 Chapter 884 of the Laws of 1990. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1076, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 2415B, 14 an act to amend the Civil Service Law. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 16 the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 20 the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 24 bill is passed. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number

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(518) 371-8910 1 1113, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 4798A, 2 an act authorizing the assessors of the 3 Village of Hempstead in the County of Nassau. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1146, by Member of the Assembly Stringer, 16 Assembly Print Number 1377C, an act to amend 17 the Insurance Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 21 act shall take effect on the -- 22 SENATOR SABINI: Lay it aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 24 bill is laid aside. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number

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(518) 371-8910 1 1149, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5406, an 2 act prohibiting any employer from issuing 3 checks. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 7 act shall take effect one year after the date. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1175, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 1788, 16 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets 17 Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 21 act shall take effect on the 120th day. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 23 Sabini, to explain his vote. 24 SENATOR SABINI: Thank you, Madam 25 President.

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(518) 371-8910 1 For the second day in a row, I find 2 myself complimenting Senator Padavan on a 3 bill. 4 This bill is important because it's 5 not a well-known fact, but in other countries 6 they are now seeking to purchase our 7 racehorses, particularly our champions, for 8 menu items. Kentucky Derby winner Ferdinand 9 was on a special banquet in Japan a few years 10 ago. And some feel that it's not only 11 inhumane, but in some ways anti-American, that 12 they -- other countries are seeking to do 13 this. 14 And I commend Senator Padavan and 15 Congressman John Sweeney, who is leading the 16 effort in the House of Representatives 17 nationally, to prohibit us from using our 18 racehorses, after they're finished with their 19 careers, as food products in other countries. 20 I'm voting aye and congratulate the 21 sponsor. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 23 you. 24 Call the roll. 25 (The Secretary called the roll.)

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 46. Nays, 2 1. Senator Seward recorded in the negative. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1190, substituted earlier today by Member of 7 the Assembly DiNapoli, Assembly Print Number 8 6082B, an act to amend the Education Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 10 the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 14 the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 18 bill is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1198, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4719A, 21 an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 23 the last section. 24 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 25 act shall take effect immediately.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1249, by Member of the Assembly Nesbitt, 9 Assembly Print Number 4953A, an act to amend 10 the Correction Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1257, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 4656B, 23 an act to amend the Correction Law. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 25 the last section.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 2 act shall take effect on the 120th day. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1263, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 3541, an 11 act to amend the Social Services -- 12 SENATOR SABINI: Lay it aside. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 14 bill is laid aside. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1266, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 494B, an 17 act to amend the Education Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 19 the last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 21 act shall take effect on the 180th day. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 23 the roll. 24 (The Secretary called the roll.) 25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 2 bill is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1267, substituted earlier today by Member of 5 the Assembly DiNapoli, Assembly Print Number 6 6761B, an act to amend the Education Law and 7 the General Municipal Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 17 bill is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1271, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5048B, 20 an act to amend the Education Law. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 24 act shall take effect on the first of July. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call

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(518) 371-8910 1 the roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1310, by Member of the Assembly Nolan, 8 Assembly Print Number 8064, an act to amend 9 the Banking Law and the State Finance Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1316, by Member of the Assembly Brodsky, 22 Assembly Print Number 7518, an act to amend 23 the Education Law. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 25 the last section.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect on the 60th day. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1352, by Senator Brown, Senate Print 4776A, an 11 act to amend the Economic Development Law. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 13 the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 17 the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 21 bill is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1356, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 407, an 24 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 25 SENATOR SABINI: Lay it aside,

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(518) 371-8910 1 please. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 3 bill is laid aside. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1369, substituted earlier today by Member of 6 the Assembly DiNapoli, Assembly Print Number 7 4466A, an act to amend the Executive Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 17 bill is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1372, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 5024A, an 20 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law and 21 the State Finance Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 23 the last section. 24 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 25 act shall take effect on the 180th day.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1428, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 5532A, 9 an act to amend the Penal Law. 10 SENATOR SABINI: Lay it aside. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 12 bill is laid aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1444, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 5379A, 15 an act to amend the Civil Service Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 17 the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect on the 180th day. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 21 the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 25 bill is passed.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1513, by Senator Winner, Senate Print 4835A, 3 an act to amend the Environmental Conservation 4 Law. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 6 the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 14 bill is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1524, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5522A, 17 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets 18 Law. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 24 the roll. 25 (The Secretary called the roll.)

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1529, by Senator Winner, Senate Print 5611A, 6 an act to amend the Public Officers Law. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 8 the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 12 the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 16 bill is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1563, by Senator Balboni, Senate Print 5641, 19 an act to amend the General Municipal Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 25 the roll.

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(518) 371-8910 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1567, substituted earlier today by the 7 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print 8 Number 8737, an act to amend the Education 9 Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 13 act shall take effect July 1, 2005. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1584, by Senator Trunzo, Senate Print 4137A, 22 an act in relation to giving Thomas J. Deluca 23 credit. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 25 the last section.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1590, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 5424A, 11 an act to authorize the City of Beacon. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 13 the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 9. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 17 the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 21 bill is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1602, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 5620, 24 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law. 25 SENATOR SABINI: Lay it aside.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 2 bill is laid aside. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1615, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 4737B, 5 an act to amend the Public Officers Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 7 the last section. 8 SENATOR SABINI: Lay it aside. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 10 bill is laid aside. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1626, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5655A, an 13 act to amend the Tax Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 15 the last section. 16 SENATOR SABINI: Lay it aside. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 18 bill is laid aside. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1627, by Senator Little, Senate Print 5664 -- 21 SENATOR SABINI: Lay it aside. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 23 bill is laid aside. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 1628, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 5678, an

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(518) 371-8910 1 act to amend the Tax Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 10 Krueger, to explain her vote. 11 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 12 Madam President. 13 While I've been known to speak out 14 against tax-reduction bills on this floor 15 frequently, and I will highlight that this 16 bill would result in a $192 million estimated 17 loss of tax revenue to the State of New York, 18 and we should always factor in how we're going 19 to make up that money or whether we can afford 20 to lose tax revenue, as I've said frequently, 21 I actually am happy to support this bill today 22 because it addresses a marriage penalty, an 23 unfair and inequitable tax structure where 24 married people and unmarried people of the 25 same income levels are in fact treated

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(518) 371-8910 1 differently. 2 So since I frequently stand to 3 object to tax-reduction bills, I thought I 4 would stand to say that I support this bill 5 and think it's good tax policy. 6 Thank you, Madam President. I'll 7 be voting for the bill. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 9 you, Senator. You will be recorded in the 10 affirmative. 11 The Secretary will announce the 12 results. 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 47. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 15 bill is passed. 16 Senator Bruno, that completes the 17 reading of the noncontroversial calendar. 18 SENATOR BRUNO: Madam President, 19 can we recognize Senator Duane. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: I'm 21 sorry, I apologize. 22 Senator Duane. 23 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Madam 24 President. 25 Unfortunately, due to a small

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(518) 371-8910 1 family emergency, I was out of the chamber for 2 Calendar Number 411. Had I been in the 3 chamber, I would have voted no on Calendar 4 Number 411. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 6 you. The record will so reflect that. 7 Senator Bruno. 8 SENATOR BRUNO: Madam President, 9 I believe that I have a privileged resolution 10 at the desk. I would ask that it be read in 11 its entirety and move for its immediate 12 adoption. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Motions 14 and resolutions. 15 The Secretary will read. 16 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Bruno, 17 Legislative Resolution Number 2529, honoring 18 the Saratoga Performing Arts Center upon the 19 occasion of its 40th Anniversary. 20 "WHEREAS, The arts, in whatever 21 form depicted, are central to human 22 expression. They are truly a universal 23 language, and their contribution to the 24 development of friendship and understanding 25 among all peoples cannot be overestimated; and

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(518) 371-8910 1 "WHEREAS, The history, the 2 heritage, and the lives of the people of all 3 countries and all cultures are portrayed in 4 their music and dance; the art and act of 5 sharing them enriches us altogether; and 6 "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this 7 Legislative Body to recognize and commend 8 those musical organizations that have brought 9 entertainment and cultural enrichment to the 10 citizens of the great State of New York; and 11 "WHEREAS, Attendant to such 12 concern, and in full accord with its 13 long-standing traditions, this Legislative 14 Body is justly proud to honor the Saratoga 15 Performing Arts Center upon the occasion of 16 its 40th Anniversary; and 17 "WHEREAS, In early February 1961, 18 Albany newspaperman Duane La Fleche noted a 19 wire service report about a group hoping to 20 entice the New York Philharmonic to make 21 Stowe, Vermont, its summer residence; and 22 "WHEREAS, This report set off a 23 chain reaction of historic proportions. Local 24 civic, cultural and legislative leaders, who 25 had previously considered a Saratoga Arts

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(518) 371-8910 1 Center an interesting possibility, were 2 galvanized into action; and 3 "WHEREAS, Within a week, they held 4 their first meeting. Within a month, they 5 were focusing on Saratoga Spa State Park as 6 the site, which had won the support of State 7 Conservation Commissioner Harold Wilm, and had 8 begun discussions with both the Philharmonic 9 and New York City Ballet; and 10 "WHEREAS, The group funded start-up 11 costs out of their own pockets. Then came the 12 more formidable challenge of demonstrating 13 community-wide support to foundations and 14 philanthropists whose backing would be 15 critical. The community came through in 16 record time; and 17 "WHEREAS, By summer 1963, generous 18 contributions from the Rockefeller Brothers 19 Fund and New York State supplemented community 20 support to ensure that the dream would become 21 reality; and 22 "WHEREAS, The New York City 23 Ballet's George Balanchine joined the 24 development board, and together with Lincoln 25 Kirstein helped define both the physical form

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(518) 371-8910 1 and artistic agenda of the Saratoga Performing 2 Arts Center. Soon, The Philadelphia Orchestra 3 came into the picture, with artistic director 4 Eugene Ormandy offering his input; and 5 "WHEREAS, In February 1964, Richard 6 Leach became the first executive director of 7 the Saratoga Performing Arts Center, adding 8 his programming experience at Lincoln Center 9 to the mix. Shortly thereafter, The 10 Philadelphia Orchestra and New York City 11 Ballet formalized their commitments, and 12 construction could begin; and 13 "WHEREAS, On July 19, 1966, New 14 York City Ballet conductor Robert Irving 15 raised his baton, and George Balanchine's 'A 16 Midsummer Night's Dream' enchanted the 17 opening-night audience at the Saratoga 18 Performing Arts Center; and 19 "WHEREAS, The Saratoga Performing 20 Arts Center Amphitheatre was created as a 21 nurturing environment for great art. In every 22 detail, it was conceived for performances and 23 performers; and 24 "WHEREAS, For architect Arnold H. 25 Vollmer, dance was the primary concern in

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(518) 371-8910 1 designing the stage itself. Honoring the 2 wishes of George Balanchine and Kirstein, 3 flooring of cypress and pine layered in a 4 basketweave pattern for maximum resilience was 5 installed on the stage and in a rehearsal 6 studio of identical dimensions; and 7 "WHEREAS, Acoustical engineer Paul 8 S. Veneklassen faced the challenge of 9 producing optimal sound inside the enormous 10 open-sided amphitheatre. With insights from 11 the artistic director of The Philadelphia 12 Orchestra, Eugene Ormandy, and working with a 13 scale model and exotic testing devices, he 14 designed an exotic series of baffles and 15 sound-reflecting surfaces that draw out the 16 full depth of the music, making the Saratoga 17 Performing Arts Center one of the world's 18 acoustically acclaimed outdoor performance 19 venues; and 20 "WHEREAS, As the Saratoga 21 Performing Arts Center's Amphitheatre offers 22 grandeur, the Spa Little Theatre offers 23 intimacy, and a rare sense of involvement that 24 suspends time and banishes mundane concerns; 25 and

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(518) 371-8910 1 "WHEREAS, In various seasons, the 2 Spa Little Theatre has hosted events ranging 3 from drama to chamber music to modern dance, 4 including Director John Houseman's renowned 5 Repertory Company and the Saratoga Chamber 6 Music Festival under Music Director Chantal 7 Juillet, as well as adventurous dance 8 companies from Twyla Tharp to Merce Cunningham 9 and Bella Lewitsky; and 10 "WHEREAS, The New York City Ballet 11 will pay tribute to its 40-year Saratoga 12 Performing Arts Center heritage, opening on 13 July 5, 2005, with 'A Midsummer Night's 14 Dream,' which was performed the very first 15 night of SPAC's inaugural session. In 16 addition, several ballets by famed Broadway 17 choreographer and director Jerome Robbins, 18 including 'Glass Pieces,' 'Fanfare and 19 Concertino,' 'Swan Lake,' 'Agon,' 20 'Harlequinade,' and 'Ballo Della Regina,' will 21 be presented, as well as three works new to 22 SPAC: 'Octet,' by NYCB Ballet Master-in-Chief 23 Peter Martins, and two new works by the 24 company's resident choreographer, Christopher 25 Wheeldon; and

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(518) 371-8910 1 "WHEREAS, The Saratoga Chamber 2 Music Festival will present seven concerts 3 under the music direction of renowned Canadian 4 violinist Chantal Juillet, August 2 through 5 21, 2005, to celebrate Saratoga Performing 6 Arts Center's 40th Anniversary season. 7 Highlights of the performance season include 8 an opening-night recital by violinist Lisa 9 Batiashvili and her husband, Francois Leleux, 10 on oboe, with brilliant pianist Jean-Yves 11 Thibaudet; Ranjbaran premieres; piano 12 performances by Emanuel Ax and Andre Watts; 13 cellist Daniel Muller-Schott; The Chris 14 Brubeck Quartet; an evening with acclaimed 15 violinist Gil Shaham and Skidmore College 16 Senior Artist-in-Residence Joel Brown on 17 guitar; and a spectacularly unique evening 18 with native Argentine pianist Martha Argerich 19 and her 19-year-old Budapest-born protege, 20 Geza Szilvay, on violin; and 21 "WHEREAS, To celebrate the 40th 22 Anniversary of the Saratoga Performing Arts 23 Center, a remarkable roster of classical 24 soloists will join The Philadelphia Orchestra 25 and Maestro Charles Dutoit, principal

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(518) 371-8910 1 conductor and artistic director of the 2 orchestra's Saratoga season, including Itzhak 3 Perlman, Emanuel Ax, Andre Watts, Yo-Yo Ma, 4 Martha Argerich, Jean-Yves Thibaudet, Pulitzer 5 Prize-winner Marvin Hamlisch, Behzad 6 Ranjbaran, Lisa Batiashvili, Gil Shaham, Van 7 Cliburn, and Chantal Juillet; and 8 "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this 9 Legislative Body that when organizations of 10 such noble aims and accomplishments are 11 brought to our attention, they should be 12 celebrated and recognized by all the citizens 13 of the great State of New York; now, 14 therefore, be it 15 "RESOLVED, That this Legislative 16 Body pause in its deliberations to honor the 17 Saratoga Performing Arts Center upon the 18 occasion of its 40th Anniversary; and be it 19 further 20 "RESOLVED, That a copy of this 21 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted 22 to the Saratoga Performing Arts Center." 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 24 Bruno. 25 SENATOR BRUNO: Thank you, Madam

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(518) 371-8910 1 President and colleagues. 2 It is very, very fitting that we 3 pass a resolution honoring and recognizing the 4 40th anniversary of the Performing Arts Center 5 of Saratoga. It has been, for forty years, 6 founded with people in the Capital Region, all 7 over the state, I believe under the leadership 8 of then-Governor Rockefeller, and it has 9 brought culture, the arts, economic impact, 10 people literally from all over the world. 11 Celebrities go there, perform there. It 12 really is one of the largest and biggest, best 13 assets that we have in the Capital Region. 14 There probably isn't anyone here 15 that hasn't been there, your families that 16 haven't been there, your neighbors, your 17 constituents. It is just tremendous to have. 18 My colleague Senator Balboni, who 19 joins Senator Fuschillo, was observing that he 20 believes that Picasso said something like: 21 The arts help you brush off the dust of the 22 day. How profound is that? I think Senator 23 Balboni actually made that up. 24 (Laughter.) 25 SENATOR BRUNO: But how

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(518) 371-8910 1 appropriate -- you think about it -- after a 2 day to go and just enjoy the music, whatever 3 presentation is taking place, and the 4 acoustical soundness of that amphitheater. 5 We're very, very fortunate Marcia 6 White is here, with many of the board members 7 from SPAC, who are extremely busy but are 8 providing their time, their energy, their 9 enlightenment to support Marcia White as the 10 president and to support the good works of the 11 Performing Arts Center in the Capital Region 12 and this state. 13 So we are indebted to you for your 14 personal commitment. And Marcia White, having 15 spent the previous twenty years in the Senate, 16 knows how to manage, she knows how to lead, 17 she knows how to get things done. And since 18 she's been there, everything has turned around 19 and is headed in a bigger, better, greater, 20 wider horizon. 21 And, Marcia, congratulations to 22 you. Congratulations to the board. And we 23 look forward, truly, with your leadership, 24 with the support that you have, support of the 25 colleagues here and so many other people that

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(518) 371-8910 1 would like to be here, we look forward to one 2 of the most successful seasons that you've 3 ever had in the last 40 years, and for at 4 least 40 more years. 5 And Marcia and the board have 6 committed their service for the next 40 years. 7 And who knows, we might be back here, Marcia, 8 40 years from now, and I may have another 9 resolution up. 10 So congratulations and thank you 11 for your good work and for all of the support 12 that you give people in the Capital Region and 13 this state. You are a tremendous asset. 14 We're honored to be honoring and recognizing 15 you here on the floor of the Senate. 16 Thank you, Madam President. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Farley. 18 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Madam 19 President. 20 I think that you know, as a person 21 that comes from the Capital District, that the 22 Saratoga Performing Arts is a state treasure, 23 it truly is. And the remarkable turnaround 24 that has happened as a result of Marcia White 25 and that new board is truly remarkable.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And the support that our Majority 2 Leader has given the Saratoga Performing Arts 3 is really outstanding. And I know that, as 4 somebody that shares Saratoga with Senator 5 Bruno, how proud we are of what has happened 6 up there. 7 And this is -- as I said, this is 8 truly a turnaround. And the way that the 9 community and the entire Capital District have 10 stepped up to save SPAC, it's truly an 11 anniversary that needs to be recognized. 12 And I rise in support of this 13 resolution and congratulate Marcia White and 14 her board on the tremendous turnaround that 15 has happened up there. 16 Thank you, Madam President. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Breslin. 18 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you, 19 Madam President. 20 I too join with Senator Farley and 21 Senator Bruno in commending the new board, but 22 most especially its new president, who I think 23 has generated a renewed excitement in the 24 Capital District. I think you can actually 25 call it a renaissance. People are now talking

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(518) 371-8910 1 about the ballet like they haven't in the past 2 twenty years. They're talking about the 3 orchestra, they're talking about the events 4 that are taking place this summer. 5 And as I look up and see friends of 6 mine who are on the board, who were each and 7 every one of them selected for particular 8 values and skills that they bring, and I 9 commend each and every one of you for offering 10 your time and you, Marcia, for undertaking a 11 greatly of responsibility, but a 12 responsibility that you can handle 13 effortlessly. 14 And I look forward to being at the 15 Spa so many times this summer. And again, a 16 wonderful resolution. 17 Thank you, Madam President. 18 THE PRESIDENT: The question, 19 then, is on the resolution. All in favor 20 please signify by saying aye. 21 (Response of "Aye.") 22 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay. 23 (No response.) 24 THE PRESIDENT: The resolution is 25 adopted.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And congratulations and best wishes 2 for many, many more years of similar success. 3 (Extended applause.) 4 SENATOR BRUNO: Madam President, 5 can we open this resolution up to anyone that 6 is here on the floor. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Yes. 8 SENATOR BRUNO: And if you'd 9 rather not be on the resolution, would you 10 privately address the desk. 11 Thank you, Madam President. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 13 Senator Bruno. 14 Any member who does not wish to 15 cosponsor the last resolution, please notify 16 the desk. 17 Senator Bruno. 18 SENATOR BRUNO: Madam President, 19 can we at this time go to the controversial 20 reading of the calendar. 21 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 22 will ring the bell, and the members should 23 return to their seats so we can commence with 24 the controversial calendar. 25 Senator Breslin.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you, 2 Madam President. 3 On Resolution 2532, which is 4 commending POW Jessica Lynch, who will appear 5 at the Teresian House, I would like to open it 6 up for all members of the Senate. And if 7 anyone wishes not to be on it, to notify the 8 desk. 9 And I also applaud and commend 10 Senator Larkin for bringing this to my 11 attention. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 13 Fuschillo, at the request of Senator Breslin, 14 are you in agreement with opening up Senate 15 Resolution 2532 for sponsorship? 16 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Yes, Madam 17 President. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Then any member 19 who does not want to cosponsor the proposed 20 resolution, please notify the desk. Thank 21 you. 22 The Secretary will read. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 713, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1003, an 25 act to amend the Penal Law.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SABINI: Explanation. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator LaValle, 3 an explanation has been requested. 4 SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you, 5 Madam President. 6 During the last couple of weeks, we 7 have passed a plethora of bills, I don't know 8 how many, dealing with sexual predators, 9 sexual assault. And we have talked about 10 various approaches on how to deal with the 11 problem that is very, very vexing in our 12 society today. 13 I think many people would not have 14 believed that we as a legislature, in trying 15 to deal with the protection of our -- 16 particularly of our young people, would be 17 using a GPS system to be able to track and 18 keep surveillance on people who have a 19 problem. 20 Today we are discussing a bill -- 21 and I must say, years ago when I had filed 22 this bill -- it goes back maybe six, seven, 23 eight years ago -- a lot of people snickered. 24 A lot of people said this bill really goes too 25 far. But when we look at the context of the

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(518) 371-8910 1 year 2005 and all the different kinds of 2 measures that we are considering, this 3 legislation is really not out of the 4 mainstream. 5 There are 11 states that will have 6 enacted legislation allowing for chemical 7 castration, those states being California, 8 Texas, Georgia, Tennessee, Michigan, Florida, 9 Iowa, Louisiana, Oregon, Wisconsin, Montana. 10 And in the state of Minnesota, legislation is 11 pending. 12 As we talk about this legislation, 13 it is -- and my staff has done an enormous 14 amount of research, calling various states to 15 ask them about issues of recidivism, asking 16 them how the system works, trying to get 17 statistics and so forth for the debate today. 18 We find that -- and I just want to say, 19 because it is shown in the kinds of 20 legislation that we have passed in this house, 21 that there's no perfect cure, and that 22 individuals who have a psychological and to 23 some degree a physical problem really cannot 24 help themselves. And so we're reaching out 25 and trying to find a solution.

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(518) 371-8910 1 We contacted the states of 2 California, Florida, Georgia, Iowa, Louisiana, 3 Michigan, Montana, Oregon, Texas and 4 Wisconsin, and every one of those states, with 5 the exception of Michigan, have a civil 6 commitment law. In the discussion that we've 7 had with other states, they've talked about 8 civil commitment and other measures being part 9 of a large program in trying to deal with the 10 problem. 11 We looked at the recidivism, 12 because that's the most often asked question, 13 and we found that different states count 14 things differently. And so it's very, very 15 hard to get a handle on it. But just to -- 16 one thing that we do know is that in looking 17 at three-year rates for sex offenders, we 18 found that the percent returning to prison 19 within three years of release, by offense 20 type, for all sex offenders, 45 percent; 21 sexual assault, 53 percent; sexual assault of 22 a child, 41 percent; and indecency, 23 35 percent. 24 The legislation that -- and by the 25 way, before we get into the specifics of the

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(518) 371-8910 1 legislation, there are numerous safeguards, 2 not only in this legislation but in the 3 legislation passed throughout the country. 4 The State of Wisconsin has the most evidence 5 of the number of individuals that have been 6 chemically castrated, and the number is 29. 7 And the question that we asked is, of the 29 8 people, have there been any that have been 9 back for a sexual crime. And the answer was 10 no. Although some were returned for -- 11 whether it was burglary or some other crime. 12 But not for a sex crime. 13 I would say, and say it right out, 14 that castration is not a hundred percent cure. 15 There is, from what we have, there's about a 16 5 percent -- a repeat offense rate of about 17 5 percent for sex criminals that have had 18 chemical castration. 19 Chemical castration -- this might 20 come up as a question -- is completely 21 reversible. It is a treatment that has to be 22 linked with other kinds of things, and we'll 23 get into that, in terms of psychological 24 treatment. And we find that a well-regulated 25 system of drug treatment for sex offenders

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(518) 371-8910 1 really might offer the most promising 2 possibility to achieve rehabilitation and safe 3 integration of offenders into society. 4 In discussing this with my staff, 5 we felt the approach that we were really 6 taking here is to offer individuals who just 7 cannot help themselves an opportunity to 8 assimilate into society. Under this bill, if 9 it were to become law, or in the other states, 10 there are so many safeguards that either the 11 judge or the physician would not go ahead and 12 approve of this methodology. 13 So in just going through the bill, 14 the bill has first violent felony sex 15 offense -- and by the way, medroxyprogesterone 16 acetate, MPA, is the chemical that we're 17 talking about. For first violent felony 18 offenders, MPA is an option. If there has 19 been, under 1(B) of the legislation, if a 20 defendant has a prior conviction, then the 21 court shall, shall sentence an individual to 22 undergo MPA. 23 Now, in the sentencing, a 24 candidate, and the legislation talks about 25 under this subdivision, shall be contingent

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(518) 371-8910 1 upon determination by a court-appointed 2 medical expert. And to provide that a 3 defendant sentenced to probation who is not 4 custody shall be returned to custody for such 5 treatment. And no such treatment shall be 6 administered until the individual is informed 7 of the side effects and has consented in 8 writing. 9 Now, there are certain side 10 effects. Individuals who have hypertension, 11 coronary problems, a physician would have to 12 make a determination whether that would 13 interfere with the individual's good health. 14 I would also say to you in the 15 legislation that for a first violent felony 16 offender, they can voluntarily undergo 17 treatment. And they must give their written 18 consent to the court. And by the way, this 19 legislation also voluntarily would allow an 20 individual to undergo physical castration, 21 once again upon a written motion by the 22 defendant. 23 We have found that physicians, for 24 whatever reason, have been very prudent and in 25 some cases reluctant to use MPA. And

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(518) 371-8910 1 Wisconsin has the highest number of cases, as 2 I have indicated, 29. 3 The last part of the bill indicates 4 that the defendant shall be guilty of a Class 5 A misdemeanor if they do not appear as 6 required by the Department of Corrections or 7 they do not allow administration of MPA. And 8 before an individual is released, there's a 9 time period in which the process would begin. 10 But as I have indicated before, this in and of 11 itself has to be coupled with counseling and 12 so forth. 13 And lastly, probably one of the 14 most important bills that we passed is Senator 15 Volker's civil confinement legislation. 16 Because all of the states that I have 17 indicated have passed very comprehensive laws 18 using both civil confinement and MPA as part 19 of their total program. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Krueger. 21 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 22 Madam President. Will the sponsor please 23 yield? 24 THE PRESIDENT: Senator LaValle, 25 will you yield for a question?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR LaVALLE: Yes. 2 THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed, 3 Senator. 4 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 5 Are there any other laws in 6 New York State where we mandate people to take 7 drugs against their will? 8 SENATOR LaVALLE: I don't know. 9 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Madam 10 President, if the sponsor will continue to 11 yield. 12 THE PRESIDENT: Senator LaValle, 13 do you yield? 14 SENATOR LaVALLE: Yes, I do. 15 THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed, 16 Senator. 17 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Are there 18 any studies that have been done on the 19 long-term health risks of this drug or its 20 relationship to other illnesses or drug 21 therapies? 22 SENATOR LaVALLE: My staff, as I 23 have indicated, have had discussions with 24 individuals from the states of California 25 Florida, Georgia, Iowa, Louisiana, Michigan,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Montana, Oregon, Texas, and Wisconsin. And as 2 I've indicated, Wisconsin has been the most 3 aggressive. The first laws were passed in 4 California -- the first law was passed in 5 California in 1996. There were several that 6 were passed in 1997, Iowa in '98, Oregon in 7 '99, and Wisconsin more recently. 8 As I have indicated, the -- there 9 are some studies that talk about some health 10 problems that you have to be a little 11 cautious -- I talked about hypertension, heart 12 problems. There is also a weight gain that 13 takes place. So we do know that there are 14 some, some health problems. But in those 15 cases, and I've said this repeatedly, the 16 physicians have been very, very cautious, very 17 measured in using MPA. Even though it is 18 shown as being successful, as I've quoted, in 19 Wisconsin in the recidivism rate for sex 20 crimes. We know of none. 21 Now, I'm very cautious in that, 22 Senator, because -- and we've had dialogue 23 with the states. We know that some of those 24 people have literally left the state, so 25 tracking them becomes difficult.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Right. 2 Thank you. 3 Madam President, on the bill. 4 THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed 5 on the bill. 6 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 7 I appreciate the Senator's detailed 8 explanation of his bill. 9 I would argue that this is not a 10 bill we should pass in New York State, despite 11 other states claiming that they've had success 12 with it. I'm concerned on a number of levels. 13 One, it's the -- if it -- for voluntary 14 purposes, I would not object. And certainly 15 the argument that anything we can do to 16 prevent repeat offenders from continuing to 17 put any of our constituents at risk is 18 obviously a very high standard for all of us, 19 and one that we hope to meet. 20 But in this bill, it's a fairly 21 drastic measure to mandate this even for 22 people who are not repeat molesters. And that 23 while some experts argue that this drug is 24 effective, others argue that in fact it is not 25 and does not statistically decrease repeat

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(518) 371-8910 1 offenders because in fact the underlying 2 violent tendencies of people who are sexual 3 abusers and predators is not necessarily 4 related to a chemical response in their body 5 as much as psychological problems that they 6 suffer. 7 I'm also very, very concerned about 8 a mandate by state government that we actually 9 require people to take drug therapies that may 10 not, in the long term, prove to be effective 11 but may, in fact in the long term prove to 12 cause other illnesses or complicate other 13 illnesses. I think it's a very risky road on 14 constitutional protections and on healthcare 15 standards of not mandating people follow 16 therapies that they choose not to, to open 17 this door. 18 I would argue, though, that in fact 19 I do support a bill that we passed here the 20 other day, and I think there may be some 21 amendment of it even today on the floor, 22 involving GPS bracelets for Level 3 offenders. 23 And I think that many of the concerns that I 24 know Senator LaValle has and that motivate his 25 decision to move forward with this bill are in

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(518) 371-8910 1 fact the same concerns we all do have and hope 2 to address, which is ensuring that people who 3 are potentially still putting at risk our 4 constituents, based on their historical 5 patterns of sexual offense, ensuring that even 6 when they are released back into communities 7 that there are ways to ensure that they never 8 repeat their violent attacking offenses and 9 that we can monitor and evaluate and ensure 10 that they should retain the right to be in the 11 community without putting anyone at risk. 12 I think that the approach that we 13 have made in laws that -- bills, excuse me, 14 that we have passed and perhaps are amending 15 and negotiating with the Assembly even today 16 on GPS monitoring is a better way for us to go 17 and probably a more successful model to 18 address the concerns of Senator LaValle. 19 And so I will be voting no. And I 20 hope my colleagues will also think about what 21 are the best ways and the not-best ways to 22 address this problem. 23 Thank you, Madam President. 24 THE PRESIDENT: Does any other 25 member wish to be heard?

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Stavisky. 2 SENATOR STAVISKY: Madam 3 President, if the sponsor would yield to one 4 question. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator LaValle, 6 will you yield for a question? 7 SENATOR LaVALLE: Yes. 8 THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed. 9 SENATOR STAVISKY: I had a Level 10 3 offender living in my district. And I tried 11 to determine what the recidivism rate was for 12 Level 3 offenders. And the statistics that 13 the Division of Parole gave me I think were 14 artificially low. 15 Can you tell us what the recidivism 16 rate is in New York State for Level 3 17 offenders? 18 SENATOR LaVALLE: I don't have 19 that. 20 There are a number of studies that 21 have been done; I read some of the rates per 22 crime. But the problem that we found, in 23 talking to people, is that -- and my staff 24 said to be very, very cautious in using 25 numbers, because people count things in

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(518) 371-8910 1 different ways. 2 Now, I mean, I don't know, if you 3 commit a crime, a sex crime, you go out, you 4 come back, that sounds like you failed. But I 5 do not have our numbers specifically. 6 I do have -- as I recall, the 7 number for violent and nonviolent sex crimes 8 was 13, 14 percent and recidivism for 9 individuals at large was 36 percent. 10 Now, when I looked at those 11 numbers, I too thought they were very, very 12 low. So I think when you do the research that 13 my staff has done on this -- and they were 14 having trouble. They did this all by hand, 15 state by state. And New York, they were very 16 perplexed, because we're using different kinds 17 of systems to put statistics together. 18 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you. 19 I've found the same problem. And 20 the numbers that I had were very -- were in 21 the 30 percent range, and I think that number 22 is low. 23 THE PRESIDENT: No other member 24 wishes to be heard? 25 The debate is closed.

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(518) 371-8910 1 The Secretary will ring the bell. 2 Read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 4 act shall take effect on the first of 5 November. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 Senator Montgomery, to explain your 9 vote. 10 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Madam 11 President, to briefly explain my vote. 12 I'm going to be supporting this 13 legislation. I understand that there are many 14 questions and issues that we don't still have 15 answers for. I would hope that we could have 16 an opportunity to have a broad discussion and 17 some hearings and that this would go through 18 that process. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Could I ask the 20 members to refrain from conversing. 21 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: However, I 22 applaud Senator LaValle's attempt to come up 23 with a method of dealing with people who are 24 in a category of inability to control 25 themselves in this way. And it seems to be --

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 2 Montgomery, may I ask you to wait until we 3 have order here, so that you can be heard. 4 All right, please proceed. 5 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Madam 6 President, this bill aims to help those sex 7 offenders who are unable to control their 8 sexual proclivities to be able to use 9 medication to help them. And that they would 10 also be able to function in society once again 11 without having the public be terrified of what 12 they might do at any moment. 13 So I am going to support this and 14 hope that we can have much more dialogue on 15 this issue. But I vote yes. 16 THE PRESIDENT: You will be so 17 recorded as voting in the affirmative. 18 Senator LaValle, to explain your 19 vote. 20 SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you, 21 Madam President. 22 In casting my yes vote on this 23 legislation, I very briefly just want to 24 indicate that the U.S. Supreme Court, in 25 Kansas v. Hendricks, 1997, gave us the legal

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(518) 371-8910 1 underpinnings for not only Senator Volker's 2 civil confinement legislation but the laws 3 throughout the country on chemical castration. 4 And so -- we have an epidemic here, 5 and so we're trying to put as many arrows in 6 the quiver to fight what is going on in our 7 society. I believe this legislation will 8 allow for individuals proper, as Senator 9 Montgomery indicated, assimilation into our 10 society so that they don't -- will not 11 terrorize individuals and can be a productive 12 member of our society. 13 Once again, I vote aye. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 15 DeFrancisco. 16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, I vote 17 aye as well. 18 But there's one segment of the bill 19 that seems to be a more recurring theme in 20 many, many bills that we see, and that is 21 immunizing various people from liability. In 22 this case that clause finds itself here as 23 well, that if a healthcare provider is 24 negligent in prescribing this type of 25 treatment or administering the treatment,

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(518) 371-8910 1 it's -- the only liability would be if the 2 person has not acted in good faith. 3 I'm not quite sure how a 4 medical-care provider could be found ever to 5 be found not operating in good faith. That's 6 no standard at all. So it's truly total 7 immunity. 8 The point I'm trying to raise, not 9 only for this bill but many, many others that 10 we've seen already, is that if someone's 11 negligent, who's going to pay, then? The 12 whole point of our tort system is to 13 compensate individuals, no matter who they 14 are, for negligence and let the party 15 responsible pay. 16 And if we keep immunizing the 17 entire human race, then that means 18 government's got to step in, and it's going to 19 be another cost of government. Plus there's 20 no incentive for anyone to avoid negligence. 21 So I'm going to vote yes on the 22 merits of the bill. But once again, I just 23 want to state my concern over this troubling 24 trend that seems to be expanding over the last 25 few months.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 2 DeFrancisco and Senator LaValle, you will both 3 be recorded as voting in the affirmative on 4 this bill. 5 The Secretary will announce the 6 results. 7 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 8 the negative on Calendar Number 713 are 9 Senators Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger and 10 Parker. 11 Absent from voting: Connor, 12 Gonzalez, and Sampson. 13 Ayes, 54. Nays, 3. 14 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 15 passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 875, by Member of the Assembly Tonko, Assembly 18 Print Number 8176, an act to amend the 19 Long-Term Care Integration and Finance Act of 20 1997. 21 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: 22 Explanation. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: An 24 explanation has been requested, Senator 25 Hannon.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. This 2 legislation would extend the Long-Term Care 3 Integration and Finance Act of 1997 for an 4 additional two years. 5 This legislation covers the 6 programs known as the PACE programs, which are 7 basically a capitated experimental program to 8 deal with the elderly, the frail elderly, 9 sometimes referred to as the chronic care 10 management demonstration programs. 11 There are five programs in 12 existence in this state: The Eddy, Loretto, 13 Rochester Healthcare, Beth Abraham, ElderCare. 14 Each of them have requested an extension. 15 Thank you. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 17 you, Senator Hannon. 18 Senator Krueger. 19 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 20 Madam President. If the sponsor would please 21 yield. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 23 you. 24 Senator Hannon, do you yield? 25 SENATOR HANNON: Yes.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Yes, 2 the Senator yields. 3 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 4 Senator, we extended this for two 5 years two years ago. And now we're being 6 asked to extend it again. It's a 7 demonstration project or, as you explained, a 8 series of them. What have they demonstrated 9 so far? Why are we either continuing them 10 another two years or not just establishing 11 that they've succeeded and allowing this 12 legislation to move forward on a permanent 13 basis? 14 SENATOR HANNON: This 15 legislation, which has been adopted by the 16 national health policymakers, is something 17 that many people feel will be the coming 18 model. In order to make this the coming 19 model, certain issues need to be finalized. 20 And there is a policy tension between those of 21 us in the legislature and the healthcare 22 community and the regulators. 23 I would say they would cover 24 questions in regard to rate-setting, questions 25 in regard to interaction between the PACE

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(518) 371-8910 1 program and assisted living, questions about 2 which regulations should and can apply, 3 questions about documentation, as well as 4 questions about assessment tools. Assessment 5 tool being a term, a concept in the field of 6 long-term care by which the provider takes a 7 look at the patient, the prospective patient, 8 and tries to evaluate the needs of that 9 patient and the type of care that the patient 10 will require. 11 Since we have last extended this, 12 this Legislature has done two things. The 13 Health Committee, in conjunction with the 14 Social Services Committee, held some 15 roundtables in regard to what are the most 16 appropriate assessment tools that are 17 available, what's happening in the state to 18 upgrade the assessment tools, and when those 19 might come about. 20 Second, as a line of inquiry, we 21 actually adopted legislation that called for 22 risk-adjusted rate setting by the Health 23 Department to go to these programs. That 24 legislation passed both houses but was vetoed 25 by the Governor.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Therefore, what continues to exist 2 is the final shape and form of these 3 demonstration programs if we're to move them 4 to permanent status. 5 Behind these demonstration 6 programs, which are more fully developed than 7 others, behind them is the less-developed 8 programs, which can be called the 9 long-term-care demonstration projects. They 10 are still working in regard to the 11 methodology, et cetera. 12 What we're trying to do is the most 13 appropriate care at affordable prices for this 14 government and society, the most appropriate 15 care for the elderly, especially the frail 16 elderly. As we are facing a population that 17 will, by the year 2030, double the number of 18 people over 65 and probably a little bit more 19 than that increase the number of over 80, we 20 have a continuing mission to determine what's 21 the best way to take care of, in an 22 institutional fashion, our elderly. 23 And the PACE program has done this 24 by giving flexibility to the caregivers, by 25 capitating the rate by having special

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(518) 371-8910 1 oversight so that we make sure the best care 2 possible is being given. This is an ongoing 3 discussion. It's one I wish were finalized. 4 But in the meantime, these five programs need 5 to have their life extended so the care they 6 are giving ought to be continued. 7 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 8 Madam President, if the sponsor 9 would please continue to yield. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 11 you. 12 Senator Hannon, do you continue to 13 yield? 14 SENATOR HANNON: Yes. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 16 Senator yields. 17 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 18 I appreciate the very detailed 19 explanation. And I share your concern that 20 these are critical programs. And you are 21 absolutely right that as we age as a society, 22 New York State is falling behind what we ought 23 to be doing to address the problems of 24 long-term care. 25 And I'm very pleased to hear that

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(518) 371-8910 1 there were roundtables. I am, of course, 2 disappointed that the Governor vetoed the bill 3 you referenced. 4 In this original legislation it 5 called for an interim report to be received by 6 the Legislature in 2003 and a final report by 7 mid-2006. Have we received any reports from 8 these demonstration projects, as required by 9 the '97 law? 10 SENATOR HANNON: I don't know if 11 we have any paper. I do know that there has 12 been a fairly intensive, extensive ongoing 13 communication with both -- with each of the 14 five plans, as well as with the Department of 15 Health and the Department of Budget. This has 16 come up with fairly tough scrutiny during the 17 budget process. 18 And I'm pretty aware of what's 19 happening and have been and will be available 20 to discuss any concerns you might have, not 21 necessarily on the floor of this chamber. 22 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 23 Madam President. Very briefly on the bill. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 25 you.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Krueger, on the bill. 2 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 3 I appreciate Senator Hannon's 4 detailed explanations. I think that we agree 5 we need to do far more on long-term care 6 planning for the State of New York. I think 7 this Legislature should have more dialogue on 8 these questions and these issues, whether it's 9 on the floor of the chamber or in public 10 hearings or by reviewing reports that I hope 11 the Department of Health and other experts 12 will provide us. 13 Perhaps one of the reasons that 14 between 1997 and 2005 we haven't moved forward 15 enough is because we're not spending enough 16 time looking at these issues. We have our 17 demonstrations, we are told they are doing 18 well, but we are not moving forward to expand 19 these very important programs, again, for a 20 growing population of seniors in the state of 21 New York. 22 So I hope that reports will be 23 forthcoming. And I hope that before the next 24 time we're asked to extend this, in 2007, we 25 will have demonstrated enough to move forward

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(518) 371-8910 1 for the people of New York. I will be 2 supporting the bill. 3 Thank you, Madam President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 5 you, Senator. 6 Senator Hannon. 7 SENATOR HANNON: Yes, Madam 8 President, on the bill. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: On the 10 bill. 11 SENATOR HANNON: Notwithstanding 12 the comments about public hearings and 13 oversight and all that -- a continuing theme 14 that I think is totally spurious and foreign 15 to this whole discussion -- we have in this 16 Senate, at least in the Majority, paid careful 17 attention to the long-term care needs of our 18 population. We've had roundtables throughout 19 the state. We've had discussions, we've had 20 ongoing hearings, we've had public budget 21 discussions. There has been a very intensive 22 effort. 23 To the extent the very esteemed 24 Senator from Manhattan would like information 25 about that, dare ask, this being the first

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(518) 371-8910 1 time I've ever heard of any inquiry, I will 2 simply state I am perfectly willing to share 3 any information at any time. But to say or 4 imply or to simply state that we have not been 5 doing this in public is erroneous and I think 6 ought to be withdrawn. 7 Thank you. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 9 you, Senator. 10 Is there any other Senator wishing 11 to be heard on the bill? 12 The debate is closed. 13 The Secretary will ring the bell. 14 Read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57. 21 Those Senators absent from voting 22 on Calendar Number 875: Senators Connor, 23 Gonzalez and Sampson. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 25 bill is passed.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Larkin. 2 SENATOR LARKIN: Thank you, Madam 3 President. 4 There are three resolutions on our 5 calendar today that I'd like to open up. 6 Number 2586 talks about our Americans that 7 were taken out of the Philippines and went 8 into Manchuria, the 50th anniversary. 9 The recent death of an individual 10 in my district who went back to Iraq, Corporal 11 Joe Tremblay, 2649. 12 And another one that should be 13 important to every one of us is 2688, which 14 encourages our Congressional delegation to 15 ensure the proper healthcare for members of 16 our National Guard. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 18 Fuschillo, may we open those three 19 resolutions? 20 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Just follow 21 the normal procedures of the house and open 22 them up to the house. If anybody wishes not 23 to go on them, please notify the desk. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Any 25 Senator not wishing to be on Resolutions 2586,

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(518) 371-8910 1 2649, or 2688, please notify us at the desk. 2 Senator Hassell-Thompson. 3 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank 4 you, Madam President. 5 I too have a resolution that I 6 would like to open up for everyone to 7 participate in. 8 This resolution calls for Obesity 9 Awareness Month. And because of the numbers 10 of cases that we are beginning to see of 11 cancer, diabetes, and heart condition that are 12 closely associated with obesity, we are trying 13 to bring public attention. 14 When we talk about the costs of 15 medical care, if we begin to look at our 16 eating habits and our behaviors, we will be 17 able to reduce significantly the cost of care 18 just by observing diet. 19 So therefore, Madam President, I 20 appreciate the opportunity to open up this 21 resolution to the entire body and hope that 22 not only will my colleagues sign on to this, 23 but also will raise their consciousness about 24 the way we eat when we go into the Senate 25 lounge.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 2 you. Senator Hassell-Thompson, can you give 3 me the number of that resolution? 4 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Madam 5 President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 7 Fuschillo. 8 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: No objection. 9 Same normal procedures. 10 Can we proceed with the reading of 11 the controversial calendar, please. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 13 you. 14 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: It's 15 Resolution Number 2652, Madam President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 17 you. 18 Any Senator not wishing to be on 19 Resolution 2652 please notify the desk. 20 The Secretary will read. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1146, by Member of the Assembly Stringer, 23 Assembly Print Number 1377C, an act to amend 24 the Insurance Law. 25 SENATOR DUANE: Explanation,

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(518) 371-8910 1 please. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: An 3 explanation has been requested, Senator 4 Balboni. 5 SENATOR BALBONI: Yes, thank you, 6 Madam President. 7 This bill attempts to close one of 8 those insidious loopholes that arises in the 9 context of orders of protection. Anyone who 10 has studied the law of the order of protection 11 realizes that it is the attempt by the 12 judiciary and by this legislature to try to 13 prevent a violent act from happening. But 14 unfortunately, as this bill addresses, we have 15 systems in place which completely obfuscate 16 the intention of that law. 17 The situation that this bill seeks 18 to address is one where there is a 19 policyholder for a contract for health 20 insurance who has an order of protection 21 against him or her and the order of protection 22 is to protect the victim of domestic violence, 23 who is the beneficiary of that policy. 24 Now, why does that matter? Because 25 as a policyholder, under current law, I have

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(518) 371-8910 1 the right to receive information as to how the 2 policy is being used, including the address of 3 the individual who I have an order of 4 protection against me for. 5 This bill, which has been 6 negotiated now for two years and will become 7 law should this house see fit to pass it, will 8 now prohibit an insurance company from 9 providing information as to the known 10 whereabouts of a victim who has an order of 11 protection for his or her protection to be 12 disclosed to the policyholder. 13 The process works that the order of 14 protection must be delivered to the offices of 15 the insurance company, and then they are 16 responsible for prohibiting the release of 17 this information. 18 Thank you, Madam President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 20 you, Senator Balboni. 21 Senator Duane. 22 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Madam 23 President. 24 With the exception of the word 25 "obfuscate," the explanation is satisfactory.

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(518) 371-8910 1 (Laughter.) 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 3 you, Senator. 4 Is there any other Senator wishing 5 to be heard? 6 The debate is closed. 7 The Secretary will ring the bell. 8 Read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 10 act shall take effect on the 120th day. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 12 the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 57. 15 Those Senators absent from voting 16 on Calendar Number 1146: Senators Connor, 17 Gonzalez and Sampson. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 19 bill is passed. 20 The Secretary will read. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1263, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 3541, an 23 act to amend the Social Services Law. 24 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: 25 Explanation.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: There 2 is a local fiscal impact note at the desk. 3 Senator Rath, an explanation has 4 been requested. 5 SENATOR RATH: Madam President 6 and my colleagues, this bill is a bill that is 7 an implementation of a measure that we passed 8 just three or four votes shy of unanimously 9 two years ago, when an omnibus Medicaid bill 10 was passed as a result of the hearings that 11 Senator Hannon referred to a few minutes ago. 12 One of the prime messages from the 13 people all across New York State as we went 14 out on a task force -- a bipartisan task 15 force, by the way, that was -- 16 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I can't 17 hear. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 19 speaker cannot be heard. Can we keep the 20 conversation out of the chamber. 21 SENATOR RATH: It's the first 22 time in my life someone said they couldn't 23 hear me. I usually have a very -- my children 24 always thought they could hear me too much, 25 probably. But okay, I'll try. Is this

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(518) 371-8910 1 better? 2 As a result of the bipartisan 3 hearings that were across the state two years 4 ago, the task force report resulted in a piece 5 of legislation, omnibus piece of legislation, 6 Medicaid reform legislation. 7 One of the chief concerns we heard 8 all across the state of course was long-term 9 care, as you just heard so much from Senator 10 Hannon about the PACE demonstration programs 11 that are going along and showing some good 12 results. Because we know most of the costs of 13 long-term care -- most of the costs of 14 Medicaid are tied up in the long-term-care 15 system. 16 But a very large portion of the 17 cost is caught up in a circumstance that we're 18 trying to start to right, to turn right. 19 Assemblyman Schimminger and I share this bill. 20 He introduced it in the Assembly. And the 21 bill is in some parts technical and in other 22 parts looking to expand managed care. 23 We know that managed care is 24 effective, we know that it does work. We 25 heard from county after county across the

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(518) 371-8910 1 state. And all of you know yesterday we 2 passed a bill about Erie County. It was a 3 problem. Erie County has had a problem, as 4 many have, with their Medicaid costs. I could 5 recite to you number after number after number 6 about counties across the state that will tell 7 you either all or close to all of their 8 property tax is being used up by Medicaid, one 9 way or another. We could debate that, we 10 could talk about that, but I think it's pretty 11 generally recognized that spiralling Medicaid 12 costs are a problem not only in New York State 13 but in every state in the country. 14 Let me just give you a couple of 15 numbers from Erie County. Because, as I said, 16 we have been really close to the problem 17 because of the circumstance that has been just 18 so clearly highlighted the last several 19 months. 20 In 2003, the Erie County Department 21 of Social Services had 131,150 residents 22 eligible for and using Medicaid, about 80,000 23 of those enrolled in Medicaid managed-care. 24 Approximately another 8,000 were in long-term 25 care, leaving about 44,000 persons in a

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(518) 371-8910 1 fee-for-service Medicaid program with no known 2 management of their healthcare. 3 This last fee-for-service group, 4 representing 33 percent of the patients, 5 expended $512 million per year, or 50 percent 6 of the total Medicaid spending. Their average 7 cost per person per year, $11,669, compared to 8 $2,889 per year for the Medicaid managed-care 9 enrollee. 10 It's a serious problem when you've 11 got an almost 10,000 -- well, $9,000 12 difference between the services that are being 13 provided for the people who are in managed 14 care and those people who are in 15 fee-for-service. 16 Erie County then went on to do a 17 program to check out what they could do with 18 managed care in terms of an addiction pilot 19 project. The net savings over two years for 20 100 alcohol-addicted individuals, a net 21 savings of $13,000 per person, both improving 22 their health and their social well-being. The 23 total amount was $1.3 million over two years. 24 We know managed care works. The 25 program -- the bill in front of you today

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(518) 371-8910 1 expands the number of people who would be in 2 managed care across New York State. But not 3 just unilaterally making it happen, it adds 4 the services to the rural communities by 5 adding rural health networks and to the HIV 6 communities by saying that the special kinds 7 of provisions that are necessary for both of 8 those communities to have quality service, 9 coordinated service -- and oh, by the way, 10 hopefully it will be efficient and economic 11 service. 12 But in terms of efficient and 13 economic, we have to look to our Health 14 Department in New York State and the federal 15 government, because none of this is going to 16 happen without the rate structure being set, 17 the fees being set, and the waivers coming 18 from the federal government. 19 But I would advance to you, my 20 colleagues, it's a start. We have to start 21 somewhere. It's a bill in both houses. I 22 don't know what the hopes are for this bill in 23 the Assembly. I know that I have very high 24 hopes for this bill here, seeing as we in 25 essence supported this two years ago almost

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(518) 371-8910 1 unanimously in the omnibus Medicaid bill that 2 we passed near the end of session two years 3 ago. 4 So my hope is that your 5 questions -- well, I can answer your questions 6 and that you'll see your way clear to support 7 this beginning effort. 8 Thank you, Madam President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 10 you, Senator Rath. 11 Senator Schneiderman. 12 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 13 Madam President. On the bill. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: On the 15 bill. 16 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I thank 17 the sponsor for -- once we quieted things down 18 here, it was good to be able to hear the 19 explanation. 20 My concern with this legislation, 21 the concern that has been expressed by a lot 22 of colleagues as well as advocates, including 23 the teachers, service providers such as Gay 24 Men's Health Crisis and Medicaid Matters, 25 which is a consumer group, is that it is

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(518) 371-8910 1 clear -- and as the sponsor has articulated, I 2 think, quite effectively -- that managed care 3 saves money. 4 However, I think it is also clear 5 that it's at this stage of the evolution of 6 New York's healthcare system, a decade or so 7 after we started requiring some recipients of 8 health services through the Medicaid program 9 to enroll in managed care, that managed care 10 also can result in reductions in services. 11 What this bill would do is require 12 some of our most vulnerable, some of our most 13 vulnerable citizens to enroll into 14 managed-care programs that history has shown 15 can create numerous barriers to receiving 16 vital care. I would urge that people with 17 HIV/AIDS are more likely to suffer from 18 multiple chronic illnesses and more likely to 19 need access to other types of services that 20 managed-care programs frequently make it very 21 difficult for them to receive. 22 The New York State Psychological 23 Association has submitted opposition materials 24 indicating that mental health professionals 25 are refusing to participate in managed-care

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(518) 371-8910 1 programs because the paperwork is simply too 2 burdensome. 3 I understand the desire to cut 4 costs. But it is clear that in this case we 5 are cutting costs by cutting care. And there 6 are some of our citizens who should not be 7 required to enroll in managed care. I think 8 that we have to strike a balance between the 9 fiscal needs, which are very, very real, of 10 our healthcare system, where the costs are 11 spiralling out of control, and the need to 12 actually provide services to people who need 13 them. 14 The fee-for-service Medicaid system 15 provides access and flexibility for people in 16 particular circumstances, such as those that 17 this bill would require to enroll in managed 18 care. I think we should stick with this 19 system. It's not a perfect solution by any 20 means. The sponsor is right, we have to cut 21 costs. But we don't have to cut costs by 22 cutting care for the most vulnerable citizens. 23 I would suggest that there are 24 innovative programs that are being tried in 25 some other states -- ranging from statewide

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(518) 371-8910 1 single-payer healthcare programs to other 2 programs that create insurance pools that make 3 it possible for people to have more expanded 4 healthcare while reducing costs -- that we 5 should be looking at. 6 I'm not going to suggest that we 7 hold hearings on the subject, but some people 8 think holding hearings is good and that 9 reaching out to other places is good. But we 10 may well have had hearings before that I just 11 didn't know about because I'm not invited to 12 those hearings. But I -- oh, I'm sorry, I 13 apologize for letting him provoke me. 14 I do think that this bill does have 15 serious problems, but it is a good-faith 16 effort to solve half of the equation, which is 17 the cost problem. We still have to solve the 18 care problem. I'm going to vote no, but I do 19 appreciate that this is a good-faith effort to 20 deal with a crisis. 21 Which I guess at the beginning of 22 this year, when the Governor announced our 23 agenda for the year, dealing with the crisis 24 in Medicaid costs was on the agenda. 25 Unfortunately, we seem to be closing the

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(518) 371-8910 1 session without addressing that. And I hope 2 that next year we will be able to deal with it 3 in a more comprehensive manner. 4 Thank you, Madam President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 6 you. 7 Senator Hannon. 8 SENATOR HANNON: Let me comment 9 in regard to some of the points that Senator 10 Schneiderman made, because I think there's 11 some misconceptions that he has, 12 misconceptions that perhaps the general 13 population has in regard to what we're doing 14 with managed care versus Medicaid managed 15 care. 16 For instance, he brings forth the 17 opposition of the psychologists to this 18 because of the way the psychologists are being 19 treated by the general health insurance 20 programs with managed care. And it is true 21 that those programs have taken the nonphysical 22 health specialties, they have subcontracted, 23 they have people who form special panels, 24 especially of psychologists or other 25 counterparts to them, and impose some

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(518) 371-8910 1 extraordinary paperwork requirements. That's 2 a problem that needs to be dealt with. 3 However, when we're dealing with 4 Medicaid managed care, which Senator Rath is 5 putting forward, we have a number of elements 6 that I think are different and, because they 7 are different, are in support of the measure 8 she proposes. 9 The very fact is that Medicaid 10 managed care has to follow certain quality 11 standards that the federal government has 12 established, that it is done as part of a 13 waiver with the federal government. The 14 waiver involves oversight. And Medicaid 15 managed care in New York, the consumer health 16 groups have made sure that that oversight has 17 been real, has resulted in good quality care 18 for the individuals covered. 19 And lastly, in terms of the 20 services, I do believe that the providers of 21 these, the Medicaid managed-care plans in 22 New York State, have done a pretty good job. 23 We have not heard from their patients the same 24 types of complaints that we have heard from 25 the patients of the other -- the general

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(518) 371-8910 1 population managed-care plans. 2 So I think there is a vast 3 difference. And if there's any place we can 4 talk about managed care, it's under Medicaid, 5 because it's been done with a fairly rigorous 6 set of standards. People get the care they're 7 entitled to, they're not denied it, and 8 they're given a regular place to have a 9 healthcare home. 10 Very important, and especially more 11 important when we're dealing with those people 12 who might have AIDS or are HIV-positive or 13 mental illness, where we have not reached that 14 population, we ought to go to that population. 15 They will get better care, and I believe as a 16 result of that better care there might be some 17 savings to the state. To my mind, it's not 18 just the savings that are the motivating 19 factor, it's the better care. 20 So that has been brought out. 21 There's an extensive discussion going on. But 22 I think we have not moved that forward in 23 recent years, and I commend Senator Rath for 24 being insistent that this be addressed and be 25 moved forward.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Thank you. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 3 you, Senator Hannon. 4 Senator Krueger. 5 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 6 Madam President. On the bill. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: On the 8 bill. 9 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 10 I appreciate the work of Senator 11 Rath. And there are parts of this bill that 12 I'm quite comfortable with. I think it's 13 reasonable to ask why there are counties that 14 have not implemented Medicaid managed care, 15 and instructing the commissioner to expand 16 that to counties that don't have the program 17 are reasonable. Certainly there are different 18 issues in rural networks, as you obviously are 19 far more expert than I. 20 But I'd like to speak about the 21 problem I have the bill and why I can't 22 support it, and that actually goes, I believe, 23 to what Senator Hannon just spoke about, the 24 special-needs populations. 25 It's approximately ten years ago, I

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(518) 371-8910 1 believe now, that New York City started its 2 mandated Medicaid managed-care model. I think 3 we were in the first in the state. And it was 4 actually my work then that got me involved 5 with creating the then Medicaid managed-care 6 task force to evaluate what was working in and 7 what wasn't working in New York City. 8 And some of the problems that we 9 found, and the city confirmed and agreed 10 ultimately with us on, was a simple concept 11 that I think still is a dilemma in managed 12 care. Managed care works best for people who 13 are not sick. We all have healthcare needs, 14 but some of us are sicker than others. And 15 since it works on a capitated system where the 16 provider network gets paid whether or not you 17 come to them for healthcare, in fact they like 18 healthy people. They like women of 19 childbearing age, they like children, they 20 like working people, who, by definition, don't 21 tend to be too sick because they're able to 22 keep jobs. 23 They don't technically like -- and 24 we've found this now ten years later in 25 New York City, they don't really like serving,

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(518) 371-8910 1 as much, sick people, because sick people cost 2 more in healthcare. And they get a capitated 3 fee that doesn't necessarily reflect the 4 increased costs of serving an ill population 5 over a relatively healthy actuarial-table-wise 6 population. 7 So the problem I have with your 8 bill is that it mandates dual-eligible 9 Medicaid/Medicare people into these programs. 10 People who are SSI-eligible, people who are 11 HIV-positive, people who have serious mental 12 illnesses, and children and adolescents with 13 serious emotional disturbances, it mandates 14 them into managed care. 15 These not only are people who are 16 statistically sicker than the overall 17 population -- because the Medicaid population 18 is in fact sicker, statistically, than the 19 overall population of New Yorkers -- it 20 subsets out the sickest, so to speak, of the 21 subpopulation of people on Medicaid in 22 New York State and mandates them into programs 23 that I would argue the evidence shows are not 24 necessarily there for them and who in fact 25 have not, at least till this date in the City

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(518) 371-8910 1 of New York -- I won't speak for the rest of 2 the state -- been effective in ensuring that 3 they have the services needed by these 4 subpopulations of exceptionally ill people. 5 And what we have found over time 6 also is that managed-care plans, whether 7 they're involved with Medicaid or the paying 8 insurance consumer or the Medicare consumer, 9 have done pretty much anything they can to 10 figure out how to avoid accepting or keeping 11 or providing services to the most ill, 12 because, again, one capitation rate, growing 13 expenses for serving the ill. 14 And so I would argue that while we 15 need to evaluate, as you point out very well, 16 the need to expand the programs out there and 17 the competition out there, decrease costs, 18 make sure that we've got access to healthcare 19 in every county in this state for people on 20 Medicaid -- and I am not, by definition, an 21 out-and-out opposer of managed care, although 22 I share my colleague's view that we'd be doing 23 far better in this state and country if we had 24 a single-payer universal system -- I would 25 argue that the data from New York City for

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(518) 371-8910 1 special-needs populations shows that those 2 providers are still not out there, are really 3 not equipped to deal with a sick population of 4 people with special needs. And that in fact 5 if we mandated these subpopulations of 6 special-needs sick Medicaid recipients into 7 Medicaid managed-care plans, what we would 8 find is that in some counties there were no 9 providers who were truly willing to serve 10 them. And even in a city as large as 11 New York, we would find that many of the 12 fundamental basic healthcare services that 13 they require are not available in a 14 managed-care setting. 15 Which is why even in the program 16 that's been set up a la special-needs 17 population, Medicaid managed-care programs in 18 the City of New York for the HIV-positive, 19 we've seen actually people disenrolling over 20 time as opposed to enrolling. Not because 21 they're philosophically opposed to managed 22 care, but rather because they couldn't get the 23 services they need. 24 So I think it's an underlying issue 25 within the model of managed care -- capitation

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(518) 371-8910 1 fee, profits versus costs-out for 2 healthcare -- managed care is a model that 3 doesn't work as well for the very ill. These 4 are subpopulations who by definition are the 5 very ill. 6 And so I would urge us to go back 7 and consider parts of your bill without 8 passing this section. So I'll be voting no. 9 Thank you very much, Madam 10 President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 12 you. 13 Are there any other Senators 14 wishing to be heard? 15 The debate is closed. 16 The Secretary will ring the bell. 17 Read the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 21 the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 24 Winner, to explain his vote. 25 SENATOR WINNER: Thank you, Madam

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(518) 371-8910 1 President. Briefly to explain my vote. 2 I'm supporting this bill very 3 strongly because here in New York, as all of 4 you know or should know, some 40 percent of 5 our overall budget is expended for the 6 Medicaid program. 7 In the Medicaid program there's 8 nothing more urgent in this state than more 9 managed care, more disease management, more 10 control of our multiply chronically ill 11 individuals. We have a whole series of state 12 agencies that are uncoordinated to provide 13 Medicaid services -- the Department of Health, 14 Office of Aging, OASAS, OMRDD, Department of 15 Mental Health, the Education Department and 16 others that direct Medicaid expenditures. Yet 17 there's no coordination. 18 And these chronically diseased, 19 chronically ill individuals with these 20 multiple illnesses make up a large proportion 21 of the expenditures that we make under 22 Medicaid. And unless we get them under 23 control, we're not only not going to provide 24 them the adequate and proper care that Senator 25 Hannon eloquently demonstrated, but we're not

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(518) 371-8910 1 going to provide the cost savings that Senator 2 Rath is so diligently working for to provide 3 for our localities and our state in this 4 Medicaid program. 5 So I enthusiastically support this, 6 because not only it is necessary but it is 7 what we are going to have to do. And this is 8 going to happen, ladies and gentlemen, in the 9 Medicaid program, or otherwise this state and 10 other states throughout this country are going 11 to go upside down from this Medicaid burden. 12 I vote aye. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 14 you. 15 Senator Winner will be recorded in 16 the affirmative. 17 The Secretary will announce the 18 results. 19 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 20 the negative on Calendar Number 1263 are 21 Senators Diaz, Dilan, Duane, Hassell-Thompson, 22 L. Krueger, C. Kruger, Montgomery, Parker, 23 Paterson, Sabini, Savino, Schneiderman, 24 Serrano, A. Smith and Stavisky. 25 Absent from voting: Senators

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(518) 371-8910 1 Connor, Gonzalez and Sampson. 2 Ayes, 42. Nays, 15. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 4 bill is passed. 5 The Secretary will read. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1356, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 407, an 8 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 9 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: 10 Explanation. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 12 you. 13 Senator Padavan, for an 14 explanation. 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, 16 Madam President. 17 Very simply put, this bill would 18 preclude the issuance of a driver's license to 19 an illegal immigrant, an undocumented alien. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 21 you, Senator. 22 Senator Schneiderman. 23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I would 24 like to thank the sponsor for the brevity of 25 the explanation.

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(518) 371-8910 1 On the bill, Madam President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 3 you. On the bill. 4 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: The 5 difficulty that I have -- and I have 6 substantial difficulties with this piece of 7 legislation, because I think it represents an 8 absolutely incorrect, inefficient, 9 inappropriate and improper approach to dealing 10 with the immigration problems and the crisis 11 that we face because of the breakdown in our 12 federal immigration system. 13 The difficulty with this bill is 14 that, as the sponsor indicates, it does 15 preclude the Department of Motor Vehicles from 16 issuing a driver's license to someone who is 17 not -- cannot demonstrate that they are in the 18 country legally. Unfortunately, the way this 19 bill would have that process occur I think 20 takes a department that functions moderately 21 well now, the Department of Motor Vehicles, 22 and attempts to make a horse out of a cow. 23 The Department of Motor Vehicles 24 would be turned into an immigration agency 25 under this bill. As it states, "The

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(518) 371-8910 1 department will be prohibited from issuing a 2 driver's license or ID card to any person who 3 does not submit satisfactory proof" -- I'm 4 reading from the bill -- "that the applicant's 5 presence in the United States is authorized 6 under federal law." 7 Now, this means the clerks at the 8 DMV are going to have to understand what 9 satisfactory proof is. 10 It goes on to state: "If the 11 department determines or reasonably suspects, 12 based on the information provided, that the 13 applicant's presence in the United States is 14 not authorized, the department shall notify 15 the United States Bureau of Immigrations and 16 Customs Enforcement." 17 This is, unfortunately, a vaguely 18 worded mandate that the Department of Motor 19 Vehicles become an immigration agency. 20 And I assure you that the 21 professionals in our existing federal 22 immigration service have a very difficult time 23 assessing who is and who is not in the country 24 legally. Sometimes these situations are very, 25 very complicated and difficult to ascertain.

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(518) 371-8910 1 We had a case in my district of 2 someone who is in the country, functioning 3 legally, was a citizen by virtue of his 4 mother's marriage to an American citizen, and 5 an issue came up as to whether that marriage 6 had been legal. That required an inquiry 7 about a marriage that had taken place 30 years 8 earlier. 9 This legislation requires the 10 Department of Motor Vehicles to assess whether 11 or not someone is in the country legally and 12 goes on to impose the requirement that they 13 set up procedures to support -- and again, I'm 14 reading from the bill -- "to set up appeals 15 hearings from denials of licenses or temporary 16 licenses." So we're trying to create a whole 17 immigration bureaucracy in the Department of 18 Motor Vehicles. 19 And I realize the sponsor is 20 concerned about issues of immigration law. 21 But I would urge him that trying to make the 22 Department of Motor Vehicles into a front-line 23 agency to evaluate people's immigration status 24 is the wrong approach. 25 This is going on in other states --

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(518) 371-8910 1 this is going on in other states, and I 2 commend to anyone concerned with this issue 3 the reports on what's happened in Tennessee. 4 This drives people out of the system. This 5 forces people who otherwise would come in and 6 get a license and be within the system for 7 safety and law enforcement purposes out of the 8 system, and I think creates two distinct 9 harms. 10 One is what I've referred to before 11 of turning the Department of Motor Vehicles 12 into an immigration agency without providing 13 it the resources or the training to do that. 14 And we know from experiences in other states 15 that this has had a very negative impact. 16 The second is this. The purpose of 17 a driver's license is to ensure that people 18 have training, that they're safe, we know who 19 they are, they have insurance. That is a very 20 important public safety function. To the 21 extent that you break down that agency and you 22 have some people who are driving cars 23 refusing -- because they're afraid of 24 untrained clerks with vaguely worded statutes 25 inquiring into their immigration status, they

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(518) 371-8910 1 don't go to the Department of Motor Vehicles. 2 They're out of the system. 3 That is why law enforcement 4 agencies, to the extent I've had contact with 5 them on this issue -- and we do, because it's 6 a major issue, obviously, in my district, 7 where we have many -- we thrive because of the 8 presence of many immigrants -- law enforcement 9 officers don't like this approach of taking 10 our motor vehicle system and attempting to 11 make it into an immigration agency. 12 So I would urge the sponsor that 13 there may be other things we can do to deal 14 with the issues of the unlawful presence in 15 this country of many immigrants. But taking 16 the Department of Motor Vehicles and trying to 17 turn it into an immigration agency is not a 18 good idea. 19 I realize that there's federal 20 legislation that pushes us in this direction. 21 It does not require us to do what is provided 22 in this bill, however, Madam President. And I 23 would suggest that if we are going to make a 24 move in this direction, which we may have to 25 do because of the federal law, the way to do

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(518) 371-8910 1 this is in the context of the budget. 2 Let's see what DMV needs to make 3 any steps that we are proposing. We can't 4 give them a mandate to set up a process for 5 appeals hearings from denials of licenses or 6 temporary licenses based on immigration status 7 and then expect them to carry this out without 8 creating chaos and without creating a 9 situation in which people who are in this 10 country lawfully will wrongfully be identified 11 as people who are not, because it's sometimes 12 hard to determine, and they don't have a right 13 to a lawyer there. The process would break 14 down, I'm sure, very quickly, because even in 15 the professional agencies mandated to do this 16 today, we have major problems. 17 So I respectfully suggest that this 18 is not the right piece of legislation to 19 address this problem. Let's work on the 20 problem in a more serious and substantial way. 21 Let's not ruin the Department of Motor 22 Vehicles and create an entire new public 23 safety problem and an entire new problem for 24 immigrants. 25 Thank you, Madam President.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 2 you, Senator. 3 Senator Serrano. 4 SENATOR SERRANO: I yield to the 5 sponsor, who is standing. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 7 Padavan. 8 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes, thank you, 9 Madam President. Let me respond to some of 10 the observations made by the previous speaker. 11 First, let's talk about the 12 driver's license. He says its primary 13 function is to ensure that the person behind 14 that wheel is appropriately there, has passed 15 the tests, is a safe driver, has insurance and 16 so on. 17 That may be true. But let me tell 18 you some of the other uses of that driver's 19 license. It's the first document they ask 20 before you get on an airplane: May I see your 21 driver's license? If you're renting a motor 22 vehicle or a small aircraft: May I see your 23 driver's license, as identity. If you're 24 buying a gun or ammunition, what's the 25 document you provide? A driver's license.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Filling a prescription, applying for a job, 2 opening a bank account, receiving money wire 3 transfers from abroad, enrolling in a training 4 or educational program like learning to fly. 5 Do any of these things seem 6 familiar to you? Well, they are to me, 7 because these are the things that those 8 individuals who flew into the World Trade 9 Center did. They used a driver's license to 10 gain access in a whole host of ways. That's 11 why the driver's license is so important. 12 Which is why only last month a federal law was 13 enacted and signed into law mandating that 14 states do what this bill requires us to do. 15 Now, we talked about the DMV here a 16 moment ago in terms of their responsibilities. 17 The DMV has already stepped forward on this 18 issue. How do they do it? Well, if you look 19 at the application for a driver's license, you 20 see one of the requirements is that you 21 indicate what your Social Security number is, 22 right on the form. So what they did, very 23 simply -- perhaps not so simply, but they did 24 it -- they checked, through the computer 25 system, the validity of those Social Security

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(518) 371-8910 1 numbers. And they came up with 600,000 2 individuals in this state where there was a 3 false Social Security number. Now, right 4 away, when that person put that number down on 5 the application, he or she committed a crime. 6 They set up a procedure for 7 evaluating these wrong systems. And they came 8 up with 252,000 people who had not responded 9 and not resolved the issue through their 10 offices. 11 Now, the matter was taken into 12 state court, and the court ruled at this 13 juncture, at this level of the system, that 14 they did not have the authority to revoke 15 these driver's licenses by virtue of the 16 action they had taken and that the Legislature 17 had to give them the authority. Now, that 18 matter is on appeal. 19 In this bill we would be giving 20 them the authority to do what they've already 21 been doing. So this nonsense about a 22 bureaucracy or all of the problems that DMV 23 would have really is not applicable at all. 24 They've already done it. They've already 25 found out who these people are. Now we want

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(518) 371-8910 1 to give them the authority to do what they 2 intended to do, and that's take away their 3 driver's license. 4 Now, the enactment that I referred 5 to before which took place in the capital, in 6 our nation's capital, Title 8, Chapter 12, 7 Subchapter 11, part 9 specifically mandates 8 that states deal with the driver's license 9 issue in the fashion that we are attempting to 10 do today. 11 There is a phase-in for that 12 enactment, that's true. But there's no reason 13 in the world why we shouldn't step forward, 14 particularly in view of what DMV has already 15 done. 16 I've talked to the commissioner. 17 He said they found examples of people with 18 three different licenses, with three different 19 Social Security numbers, with different 20 driver's licenses in their possession for 21 obviously illegal if not inappropriate 22 purposes, depending upon the situation that 23 they were dealing with. Massive fraud. 24 In regard to the issue of 25 "reasonable" that the previous speaker

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(518) 371-8910 1 referred to, "reasonable" is reasonable. The 2 DMV was reasonable in their approach to this 3 problem. And certainly we want them to 4 continue to be reasonable. 5 There can be situations where there 6 are errors. Someone may have made a mistake 7 when they put in the Social Security number. 8 That has to be resolved. We want them to be 9 reasonable in how they approach this entire 10 issue. 11 But the fact remains, we have an 12 obligation to the people of this state to not 13 only comply with federal law but to protect 14 our citizens against those who are here who 15 are up to no good, who are here to commit 16 crimes, who are here as terrorists, who are 17 here to rip off our system. And that's what 18 this legislation is all about. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 20 you, Senator Padavan. 21 Senator Serrano. 22 SENATOR SERRANO: Madam 23 President, on the bill. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: On the 25 bill.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SERRANO: We all know 2 that immigration is the foundation of our 3 society. Yet over the years there's been such 4 a steady eroding of the rights of new 5 immigrants, there have been so many barriers 6 that have been put in place that have made it 7 more difficult for those seeking a better life 8 to obtain the necessary papers that they need 9 in order to, as this law would put it, to get 10 a driver's license. 11 We all know that immigrants provide 12 a major pillar in the foundation of our 13 economy. Without a driver's license, they 14 will not be able to get to work, not be able 15 to pay taxes, and not be able to make a better 16 life for their family, which is the American 17 dream. 18 And I believe that using 9/11 as a 19 blanket excuse to hurt new immigrants is 20 wrong. Law enforcement's role is to root out 21 terrorists and criminals. And blanket methods 22 that hurt the vast majority, vast majority of 23 immigrants, which are here to build the 24 American dream, is wrong. They are here to 25 defend this country, they are here to die for

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(518) 371-8910 1 this country. 2 And I think we should be doing 3 something more to send a more positive message 4 to the immigrants that we want to help them to 5 get the papers that they need in a more timely 6 manner, so that they will be able to apply for 7 their driver's license or do whatever it is 8 that they need to do. Remove barriers to 9 citizenship, which I think hurt immigrants 10 year after year. 11 So I believe that this is the wrong 12 message to send to immigrants. This is the 13 wrong message to send to those who are looking 14 to build a better life for themselves here. 15 And I intend to vote no on this, Madam 16 President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 18 you, Senator. 19 Senator Balboni. 20 SENATOR BALBONI: Madam 21 President, the place where I am seated in the 22 chamber is eminently appropriate for my 23 position on this bill. I am between Frank 24 Padavan and Senator Serrano on this particular 25 issue.

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(518) 371-8910 1 On the one hand, when I met with 2 the spouses of victims of 9/11 and with the 3 Director of Homeland Security, Jim McMahon, 4 they had one message: Hey, it's four years 5 later. What are we waiting for with driver's 6 license security? We know it was the tool 7 that terrorists used to gain access to the 8 country. Why haven't we fixed it? What are 9 we waiting for, and what is it going to take 10 to act? 11 And then I traveled to Washington, 12 D.C., represented 50 states in the nation in a 13 negotiated rule-making group that talked about 14 the implementation of this fix for driver's 15 licenses. And what became very apparent was 16 that you can't shut out the immigrant, that so 17 much of our society depends upon the immigrant 18 being able to drive. And that in certain 19 cases it almost becomes secondary -- yes, 20 secondary. 21 You know why? Because what became 22 very apparent is that the federal government 23 does not have their act together when it comes 24 to immigration, plain and simple. They have 25 never committed the resources they need to

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(518) 371-8910 1 commit to make our borders secure, safe and 2 usable by folks who are innocent, law-abiding 3 and taxpaying, who want to become citizens but 4 we don't give them the opportunity. They have 5 to stand in lines around the immigration 6 departments in Lower Manhattan waiting to try 7 to get a visa, waiting to try to get a green 8 card. And we've never, never in this nation 9 recognized that how we view government isn't 10 the way everybody in the world views 11 government. 12 On Long Island there's a huge 13 population of individuals from El Salvador. 14 Look at the El Salvadorian history. They view 15 government with suspicion, not with hope. And 16 yet I think we've done a terrible job as a 17 nation, frankly, in reaching out to those 18 immigrants to say, You know what, we want you 19 here in this country, we want you here 20 legally, we want you here as part of the 21 mosaic. We've not done a good job. 22 So here's the conflict. On the one 23 hand, Frank Padavan is absolutely correct. 24 This bill is what the federal government has 25 now said we must have. And in three years, if

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(518) 371-8910 1 we don't adopt this type of language, guess 2 what happens? Our driver's licenses will not 3 be usable for any federal purpose. That means 4 getting into a federal building, that means 5 getting on a plane, that means doing anything 6 else. 7 But the Real ID Act did something 8 that was bad. It put the cart before the 9 horse. It said: Create a system of security, 10 do it now, but we're not going to tell you 11 what will constitute the safe card. We're not 12 going to give you any of the parameters. You 13 decide that yourself. We're not going to give 14 you guidance. But make it secure and make it 15 now. 16 We had an opportunity on this 17 rule-making committee to actually get through 18 some of these hard issues, and our legs were 19 cut off in the middle of the process. That's 20 too bad. 21 But like it or not, Frank Padavan's 22 bill is necessary. And like it or not, we 23 need to change the way we view the immigrant 24 population in this nation and the realities of 25 how people live and work in our society today.

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(518) 371-8910 1 I'm going to wait and hear the rest 2 of the debate. I don't know how I'm voting on 3 the bill. But I tell you this. We need to 4 talk a lot more about this, because these are 5 the basic tensions of our society. And until 6 we figure out to solve this and make it into a 7 user-friendly, secure system, we won't be 8 secure and we won't be user-friendly for 9 anybody that we want in our nation. 10 Thank you, Madam President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 12 you, Senator Balboni. 13 Senator Parker. 14 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President, 15 on the bill. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 17 you. On the bill. 18 SENATOR PARKER: I continue to be 19 disturbed by bills that come up in this house 20 that are both anti-immigrant and also, I 21 think, overstep the bounds of what our 22 authority is as a state legislature. 23 I want to agree with Senator 24 Serrano as he talks about what we ought to be 25 doing here: really, the value of making not

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(518) 371-8910 1 just the United States but New York State, the 2 Empire State, more accessible to immigrants. 3 Here we're talking about, you know, again a 4 country, a state, a city that was built on the 5 backs of immigrants. 6 And, you know, I think that some 7 people in this Legislature suffer from what I 8 call the Mayflower complex. And in the 9 Mayflower complex, people all dream, they 10 imagine that their ancestors arrived here on 11 the Mayflower, before there was a United 12 States, before there was a Constitution. That 13 they were here, you know, standing next to the 14 aboriginals and, you know, thus did not need 15 any kind of naturalization. They pretend that 16 everything is fair and equitable for everyone 17 and that the American pie is an endless supply 18 that anybody can just make access to. But 19 unfortunately, that is not the reality. 20 And this Legislature is really 21 proof positive of that, that we need to work 22 together to figure out how we in fact make 23 this place a better place for everyone, 24 particularly for immigrants, who have given so 25 much and continue to give so much.

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(518) 371-8910 1 I mean, let's understand who they 2 are. The people who we are talking about 3 denying access to drive a car today or to 4 drive a vehicle or deny access for a driver's 5 license are the people who drive cabs. 6 They're the people who upstate, you know, make 7 this one of the greatest agricultural 8 communities in the entire country. 9 You know, New York State is the 10 number-one producer of apples in the country, 11 the number-two producer of cabbage, the 12 number-three producer of snap peas and sweet 13 corn, the second-largest producer of maple 14 products, the fourth-largest producer or 15 fifth-largest producer of dairy products. I 16 mean -- and how does that stuff all get from 17 upstate farms to our shelves in Brooklyn? 18 Well, there are lots of immigrants who are 19 engaged in farming all over the state of 20 New York. 21 They are people who drive cabs and 22 drive trucks. They are the folks who clean 23 our houses. They are the folks who take care 24 of our children. These are working men and 25 women who want nothing more than an

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(518) 371-8910 1 opportunity to make a living in this country. 2 And I'm glad to see my colleague 3 Senator Balboni speak to and point out the 4 failure of leadership at the national level. 5 Because President Bush has talked about, you 6 know, making it accessible for immigrants to 7 earn a living and to be engaged in the 8 economic system of the United States. 9 However, there has been no bill submitted. To 10 date, there's no bill submitted. 11 And so we really need to figure out 12 exactly, again, the issues that Senator 13 Balboni raised. How do we give the vast 14 majority of people who are here, who intend to 15 be law-abiding, an opportunity to enjoy the 16 economic opportunities that are present here 17 in this great country, but at the same time 18 protect ourselves against, you know, terrorist 19 acts that we are now clear face us? 20 And I think that part of that needs 21 to be done on the national level. And we 22 really need to, you know, work together. 23 Maybe a joint letter from the members of this 24 Legislature, which I would love to help sit 25 down and draft and obviously sign, you know,

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(518) 371-8910 1 asking the federal government to do better 2 both at the immigration process but, more 3 importantly, at dealing with fighting 4 terrorism. 5 And particularly making sure that 6 states like New York State are higher on the 7 priority list in terms of how federal dollars 8 are doled out. And making sure that we are 9 able to get the things that we need for first 10 responders. And to make sure that we have the 11 kind of intelligence network across this 12 country and throughout the world that we 13 really need in order to prevent terrorism. 14 However, this bill doesn't do that. 15 This bill is a response to the Real ID Act, 16 and I do understand that. And where I agree 17 with Senator Balboni on the fact that we need 18 to respond to this duality, I disagree in the 19 fact that this is the only way that we in fact 20 can respond to the Real ID Act. Because 21 there's actually many options. And creating a 22 second tier is not the only option that 23 exists. And we need to have a more thorough 24 discussion about that. 25 I don't know, let's try something,

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(518) 371-8910 1 you know, radical. I don't know, a public 2 hearing might work in terms of, you know, 3 finding out what are the things that our 4 constituents and some of the experts are 5 thinking. I don't want to, you know, push 6 this legis -- I know this is a deliberative 7 body; I don't want to push us too far. But 8 maybe a public hearing might work in terms of 9 us, you know, trying to get to the root of 10 this serious problem. 11 Our driver's licenses must be 12 something that are of value. It does provide, 13 as Senator Padavan pointed out, a first and 14 primary ID for most people. And it should 15 continue to do that, and we need to figure out 16 the best way to do that. But I'm not clear -- 17 actually, I'm very clear that it doesn't stop 18 people who are engaged in terrorism from 19 hatching their devilish schemes. 20 9/11, which is near the forefront 21 of everybody's mind as we talk about 22 terrorism, the men who were engaged in that 23 horrible, horrible, horrible event had 24 documents, had driver's licenses. It was not 25 those driver's licenses that allowed them to

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(518) 371-8910 1 get on the plane. It was not those driver's 2 licenses that allowed them to get access to 3 the things they had access to. In fact, most 4 of them were here legally, in fact. 5 So not having their driver's 6 license would not have stopped them from 7 boarding the plane, it would not have stopped 8 them from flying the planes into the towers, 9 it would not have stopped them from hatching 10 what, again, proved to be one of the darkest 11 days in this country's history. 12 And in fact, if you listen to the 13 experts on the federal level, having driver's 14 licenses actually allowed the law enforcement 15 to identify who the terrorists were. And in 16 fact, we ought to be looking at ways to get 17 people registered in the system so we know who 18 people are and where they are. That is a way 19 that you deter terrorism and you deter -- and 20 I mean, you know, just last week we were 21 talking about sex offenders, and we want to 22 put ID bracelets on sex offenders because we 23 want to know where they are. 24 So what you're now saying is that 25 you want to take away ID from people so they

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(518) 371-8910 1 can disappear, so we don't know where they 2 are. So instead of having people that we 3 begin with having a description, an address 4 and a photo of, so that we can ID people, 5 you're now saying let's make potential 6 terrorists, who may in fact be illegal 7 immigrants, let's make them totally invisible 8 to the system. So that if in fact something 9 does happen, we have no way to track them. 10 That's what this legislation does. 11 And it has a number of 12 implications. One of the things that bothers 13 me, and this is why, in coming here with the 14 leadership of David A. Paterson, we created 15 and David has given me an opportunity to chair 16 a task force on new Americans, to in fact look 17 at and discuss these issues in a way that 18 comes out in a win-win. Because if we in fact 19 do this, the implications for our communities 20 are going to be great, not just in mine but 21 also in the sponsor's community, where people 22 will not be able to earn a living, where both 23 their dollars and their work will drop off of 24 the grid, people will stop paying taxes, 25 people will stop being engaged in the legal

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(518) 371-8910 1 economy. 2 But then also, many people who use 3 transportation either as a means to earn their 4 living or people who use transportation as a 5 way to get to their job, I hate to tell us, I 6 hate to tell people this, but they are not 7 going to stop driving. They are not going to 8 stop driving. 9 It would be irresponsible for me as 10 a legislator and a member of the Insurance 11 Committee to stand here and vote for a bill 12 that I know will continue to increase 13 ratepayers' rates around the state on 14 insurance. Because we will not only have more 15 people driving without insurance, but if you 16 think the number of hit-and-runs that has been 17 documented by the Daily News and the Post and 18 the Times is bad now, take away people's 19 driver's licenses and let's see what happens. 20 The numbers of hit-and-run 21 accidents I assure you is going to quadruple. 22 It's going to be through the roof. And what 23 that will do to the insurance rates in places 24 like Brooklyn and Queens and the Bronx will 25 be -- people will not be able to afford to

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(518) 371-8910 1 drive cars. We'll have insurance companies 2 fleeing the state. It will be a nightmare. 3 And so this bill doesn't take us 4 where we need to go. Because if you think 5 that a terrorist is going to be deterred -- 6 you take a terrorist, somebody who's going to 7 blow up a corporate headquarters, who gets a 8 van, fills it up with explosives, is going to 9 drive it through the lobby of a office 10 building. You think that they're going to get 11 there and say, Oh, I don't have a driver's 12 license, I can't do this dastardly deed? It's 13 ridiculous. 14 We are simply stopping people who 15 want to be engaged in this country's economy, 16 people who are primarily hardworking and 17 good-intentioned. We are really killing the 18 opportunity. We are waking people up from the 19 American dream. And that's not what I think 20 the sponsor wants to do. That's not what I 21 think this Legislature wants to do. 22 And so I would ask that we don't 23 vote no, but the sponsor withdraw this bill, 24 that we immediately get together and convene 25 some public hearings to talk about how we

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(518) 371-8910 1 engage this bill. And I will even come back, 2 you know, from my summer vacation so that we 3 may pass a bill that deals with properly 4 addressing the issues of driver's licenses and 5 making sure that we not only have a safe state 6 but we have one that's accessible to the hopes 7 and dreams of the people who have come here to 8 earn a decent life. 9 Thank you, Madam President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 11 you. 12 Senator Diaz. 13 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, Madam 14 President. 15 Through you, Madam President, will 16 the sponsor yield for a question. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 18 you. 19 Senator Padavan, do you yield for a 20 question? 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes, certainly. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 23 you. 24 The Senator yields. 25 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you.

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(518) 371-8910 1 I am a Puerto Rican. Puerto Rico 2 is a small island in the Caribbean. For 3 what's recently happened in the world, Puerto 4 Rico is part of the United States. And I 5 belong to a party in Puerto Rico called the 6 New Progressive Party. That is a party that 7 wants Puerto Rico to become the 51st state. 8 And this is the star of that party. 9 This is the star. Whenever you see this star, 10 anybody, that means the person -- 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: May I inquire 12 what your question is, Senator? 13 SENATOR DIAZ: I'm going to get 14 to that. I'm going to get to the question. 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: Okay, thank 16 you. 17 SENATOR DIAZ: That means that 18 anybody, people that wear this star want 19 Puerto Rico to be a state. And why is it that 20 we want Puerto Rico to become a state? 21 Because we avoid a lot of problems by coming 22 here and by getting jobs and by producing 23 paper. 24 Now, do you, Senator Padavan, do 25 you know that there are close to 300,000

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(518) 371-8910 1 people with driver's licenses that are in 2 danger of losing those licenses? 3 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, I 4 don't know if you heard me -- 5 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes or no? 6 SENATOR PADAVAN: What? 7 SENATOR DIAZ: Do you know 8 that -- 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'm going to 10 answer your question. 11 SENATOR DIAZ: I just want you to 12 answer my question. Do you know -- 13 SENATOR PADAVAN: I am going to 14 answer your question. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 16 Senator is answering. 17 SENATOR DIAZ: Is it yes or no? 18 SENATOR PADAVAN: As I indicated 19 earlier, the Department of Motor Vehicle 20 bureau, our state agency responsible for the 21 issuance of driver's licenses, by virtue of 22 checking Social Security numbers, determined 23 in the final analysis that there were 252,000 24 driver's licenses that were fraudulently in 25 possession of individuals that we've been

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(518) 371-8910 1 talking about. 2 So therefore, I do know that there 3 are a significant number of people who are 4 driving with fraudulent driver's licenses 5 obtained in a fraudulent manner. 6 SENATOR DIAZ: Madam President, 7 through you, will the sponsor yield. 8 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 10 you. Senator Padavan yields. 11 SENATOR DIAZ: Senator Padavan, 12 then in order that those persons that have 13 driver's licenses, they use those driver's 14 licenses to work, they are earning money, they 15 are driving trucks, taxis, they are supporting 16 their families, through that -- because of 17 that driver's license. 18 What do you suggest we do with 19 them? 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well, Senator, 21 the bill is very specific in this matter. If 22 they are an illegal immigrant, a referral 23 should be made and must be made, by virtue of 24 this bill, to immigration authorities. 25 SENATOR DIAZ: So we should put

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(518) 371-8910 1 them -- through you, Madam -- 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 3 Padavan, do you yield? 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 6 Senator yields. 7 SENATOR DIAZ: So we should put 8 all of them on a barge, on a ship, and send 9 them back to their countries? 10 SENATOR SALAND: Every person who 11 is addressed in that manner has an opportunity 12 for a hearing and an appeal. There is a 13 process that is followed. And that process 14 should be followed. 15 You know, Senator, you know, I've 16 listened to a lot of dialogue from you and 17 your predecessor there on the floor, and some 18 of it I find particularly offensive. The 19 second time he indicated to me that my bill 20 was anti-immigrant. 21 Now, I happen to be a 22 second-generation immigrant in this country. 23 My grandparents on both sides came here from 24 Italy at a time when vast numbers of 25 immigrants came to this country. And we see

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(518) 371-8910 1 another wave of immigrants coming to this 2 country. And they are welcome because they 3 provide so many resources and benefits, 4 whether they come from Puerto Rico or wherever 5 they come from. Although Puerto Rico is part 6 of our -- you are a citizen if you are in 7 Puerto Rico. 8 But the fact remains, the fact 9 remains they came here legally. They came 10 here with good purposes in mind, to improve 11 their economic status, to raise a family, to 12 work hard, to be contributors to this great 13 nation. We are all, in this chamber, unless 14 we happen to be Native Americans, the products 15 of immigration. And we're all proud of it. 16 I'm proud of the sacrifice that my 17 grandparents made. They were very brave 18 people. They gave everything, they gave up 19 everything and got into a boat on steerage -- 20 is there someone up on the balcony you want to 21 talk to, or you want to listen to me? 22 SENATOR DIAZ: I'm listening to 23 you. 24 SENATOR PADAVAN: You're throwing 25 kisses up there, and I'm just curious as to

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(518) 371-8910 1 who it was. 2 SENATOR DIAZ: You're not 3 answering my question. 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'm answering 5 your question. 6 SENATOR DIAZ: No, you're not. 7 SENATOR PADAVAN: Now, the fact 8 remains that we have an obligation in this 9 country to protect all our citizens. In my 10 county -- which is referred to often, because 11 it's so -- the most diverse county in the 12 nation, we have more different immigrant 13 populations in Queens than any part of this 14 country. And many of them, if not most of 15 them, live in my district. They're wonderful 16 people. They all make a contribution. 17 When you have someone who came to 18 this country up to no good, who does get a 19 driver's license by breaking a law, both 20 federal and state -- when you forge a Social 21 Security number, you've violated a federal 22 law. When you put it on an application with 23 the Department of Motor Vehicle bureau, you're 24 violating a state law. So at that point in 25 time they've already committed two crimes.

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(518) 371-8910 1 When those type of individuals are 2 out in the community, then we have to be 3 concerned and we have to take action. And 4 that's what this bill is all about. 5 The Statue of Liberty has at the 6 foot of it, Senator, some beautiful words: 7 Send us your wretched, your yearning masses to 8 breathe free. And on and on it goes. It 9 doesn't say: Send us your thieves, your 10 cutthroats, your robbers, your arsonists, your 11 terrorists. That's not who we want to welcome 12 here. And if they fall in the category of 13 these people, then we have an obligation to do 14 something about it. 15 SENATOR DIAZ: Madam President, 16 through you, will the sponsor continue to 17 yield. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 19 you. 20 Senator Padavan, do you continue to 21 yield? 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Yes, 24 the Senator yields. 25 SENATOR DIAZ: I'm going ask my

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(518) 371-8910 1 question one more time to see if we could 2 understand each other. 3 Most of the 350,000, 400,000 people 4 who happens to have driver's licenses in the 5 State of New York, they, the majority of them 6 use that driver's license to support their 7 families, to work, to earn an honest living, 8 drive trucks, taxis, whatever. What do you 9 suggest, Senator Padavan, that we do with 10 them? 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: Very simply, 12 Senator, we do what the bill says. If they're 13 an illegal immigrant, refer them to that 14 authority that must deal with that issue. 15 SENATOR DIAZ: And the families? 16 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, if you 17 applied for a medical license and you did so 18 fraudulently, they take away your medical 19 license. If you applied for a barber's 20 license and you did so fraudulently, they take 21 away your barber's license. 22 These licenses are privileges. 23 They're not rights. If you do not apply 24 properly and legally, you're not entitled to 25 the license. That's the only answer I can

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(518) 371-8910 1 give you. 2 SENATOR DIAZ: One last question, 3 if he have the desire to listen to me for one 4 more question, Madam President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 6 you. 7 Senator Padavan, do you yield for 8 an additional question? 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 11 you. 12 The Senator yields. 13 SENATOR DIAZ: I don't understand 14 the purpose of this bill. Maybe -- 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'm sorry, 16 what? 17 SENATOR DIAZ: The purpose of 18 this bill. 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: The purpose of 20 the bill. 21 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes. 22 Number one, I don't know -- I'll 23 play Columbo here. I don't know if the bill 24 is to stop issuing driver's licenses or to 25 make the Department of Motor Vehicles an agent

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(518) 371-8910 1 of the immigration department. So which one 2 of the two is it? 3 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, I hate 4 to be repetitious, because I'm sure people 5 are -- 6 SENATOR DIAZ: Please. You know, 7 I'm a dumb Puerto Rican. 8 SENATOR PADAVAN: But I'll repeat 9 what I said to you earlier -- 10 SENATOR DIAZ: Don't worry, I'm a 11 dumb Puerto Rican that -- 12 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'm not 13 worried. You may not be worried. But others 14 may be worried. And I'll tell you what 15 they're worried about. 16 The driver's license, what is it 17 used for? We said it before, to get on an 18 airplane, to rent an airplane, to rent a car, 19 to do all kinds of things. How many times in 20 your life -- I'm sure you will think about 21 this for the moment -- have you been asked for 22 your driver's license as a form of valid 23 identity? Thousands. And it happens all the 24 time, it happens everywhere. 25 So the driver's license is not just

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(518) 371-8910 1 permission to drive a car. It's the primary 2 source of identification everywhere you go, 3 for almost every purpose you could possibly 4 think of. 5 So when terrorists transfer money 6 which they use to do their thing -- or other 7 criminal activity, drug smuggling. We passed 8 a bill here just yesterday, which passed 9 unanimously, dealing with placing immigrants 10 in bondage, in slavery, for prostitution and 11 other things, and money is transferred back 12 and forth. What is used? The driver's 13 license. You could go on and on on that 14 issue. 15 And so when we deal with the 16 driver's license, we're talking about a great 17 deal more than driving. And that's why it's 18 so critical that the driver's license should 19 be in the hands of someone who has not already 20 committed a crime. The word "unlawful" is 21 quite clear. And when you get that driver's 22 license in the manner I've described, you have 23 committed an unlawful act. 24 And if you're an illegal immigrant, 25 you're here illegally and action should be

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(518) 371-8910 1 taken as it's deemed appropriate by those 2 agencies that have the enforcement authority. 3 SENATOR DIAZ: Madam President, 4 on the bill. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 6 you. 7 Senator Diaz, on the bill. 8 SENATOR DIAZ: In the three years 9 that I have been here, I have learned that 10 once a bill comes onto the floor, it is an 11 exercise in futility to discuss it. You're 12 going to pass it anyway. So -- but let me 13 vent my frustration. 14 And this bill that I'm reading 15 here, even though Senator Padavan says that 16 the bill is to correct or to deal with the 17 issuing of driver's licenses, when I read the 18 bill Section 502(B), paragraph 3, the bill 19 reads as follows: "If the department 20 determines or reasonably suspects, based upon 21 the information provided to it, that the 22 applicant's presence in the United States is 23 not authorized under federal law, the 24 department" -- meaning the Department of Motor 25 Vehicles -- "the department shall notify the

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(518) 371-8910 1 United States Bureau of Immigration and 2 Customs Enforcement of such person's suspected 3 illegal status." 4 So I don't understand if this bill 5 is to deal with the driver's license or to 6 make the Department of Transportation an agent 7 of the immigration department. 8 Paragraph 4 reads: "The department 9 shall adopt regulations to carry out the 10 purposes of this section, including procedures 11 for but not limited to verifying that the 12 applicant's presence in the United States is 13 authorized under federal law." So that means 14 that this bill is making the Department of 15 Transportation an agent of the immigration 16 bureau. 17 And if that's what we're doing -- 18 that's what I was asking. I want to 19 understand, is that what we're doing. Are we 20 dealing with the driver's licenses, or are we 21 dealing with making the Department of 22 Transportation an agent of the immigration 23 department? 24 SENATOR PADAVAN: Madam 25 President, will the Senator yield?

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 2 you. 3 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, did 4 you hear me earlier when I told that you even 5 without the federal statute, last year, over a 6 period of time, the Department of Motor 7 Vehicles, on its own initiative, without any 8 direction from the Legislature, attempted to 9 determine whether driver's licenses were in 10 the hands of people illegally? 11 They took the initiative and 12 checked the Social Security numbers, which 13 they're able to do now. They determined there 14 were over a quarter-million people out there 15 who are running around with driver's licenses 16 that they obtained fraudulently. This bill 17 didn't make them do anything. They already 18 did it. 19 Now, the problem is their actions 20 have been challenged in the courts. And this 21 legislation would in effect give them the 22 authority to do what they've already done. I 23 hope you understand that, Senator. 24 SENATOR DIAZ: No, I don't. 25 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well, then,

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(518) 371-8910 1 you're not listening. 2 SENATOR DIAZ: I don't. I mean, 3 I -- 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 5 you, Senator. 6 SENATOR DIAZ: They -- the 7 Department of Transportation started to -- 8 started a policy to stop issuing driver's 9 licenses -- 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Excuse 11 me, Senator Diaz. Are you speaking on the 12 bill? 13 SENATOR DIAZ: I'm still on the 14 bill. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: 16 Continue, thank you. 17 SENATOR DIAZ: I'm still on the 18 bill, Madam President. And he stopped me for 19 a question. 20 The Department of Motor Vehicles 21 stopped issuing driver's licenses unless, 22 unless the person could produce the necessary 23 documents. And that was said. But the 24 Department of Motor Vehicles never was 25 reporting to the immigration department those

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(518) 371-8910 1 people that don't have papers. 2 This bill, this bill says here that 3 this bill is authorizing the Department of 4 Transportation to report illegal immigrants if 5 the Department of Transportation feels that 6 that person has not the necessary papers to be 7 in this country. That's what this bill is 8 saying. 9 And I'm saying that's outrageous. 10 That's -- that's not what we're dealing with. 11 I mean, we're dealing with driver's licenses, 12 or we're dealing with making departments to 13 start reporting to the Department of 14 Immigration everybody that cannot produce 15 papers? And that's -- that's -- that's what I 16 don't understand. 17 I'm Puerto Rican; I'm saying again, 18 I don't have the problems. But we have 19 350,000 or 300,000 people that are working. 20 And the Department of Transportation issued 21 those driver's licenses to them. They have 22 driver's licenses. They are working, they are 23 supporting their family, they are supporting 24 their children, they are paying taxes. Now, 25 we take away those driver's licenses, are they

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(518) 371-8910 1 going to work to support their family? Or we 2 should send the family to welfare? 3 (Response from gallery.) 4 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you. At 5 least I got one follower there. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 7 Morahan. 8 SENATOR MORAHAN: Thank you, 9 Madam President. 10 I rise here really to address a 11 greater issue that we are speaking all about, 12 around, but not to. 13 I'm a son of immigrants. My family 14 came, my mother and father came from the other 15 side of the ocean. They settled here, they 16 went through the application process. My 17 father delivered ice off an ice wagon, my 18 mother worked as a domestic, and they became 19 citizens. Never had a driver's license; 20 raised us anyhow. Put us through schools. 21 They spent their lives trying to make the 22 world for us, their children, and I in turn 23 for my children, their grandchildren. I never 24 had the privilege to meet a grandparent of 25 mine.

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(518) 371-8910 1 So when I hear about immigrant talk 2 here, I have no problem with immigrants. But 3 there's a difference, in my mind, between an 4 immigrant and an illegal alien. That's the 5 term that we should be using, as opposed to 6 "immigrant." 7 This country was built and will 8 continue to be built by immigrants. It's the 9 one thing that makes our nation strong. 10 Because our population, no matter what the 11 birth rate, continues to grow. And a country 12 and a nation with a growing economy is a 13 prosperous nation. So immigration is indeed, 14 by itself, welcomed. 15 Now, we're talking about a nation 16 of laws and regulations that come from those 17 laws. And either we are a nation of laws or 18 we're not. And what I hear here is that if 19 people come into this country through illegal 20 means and have an illegal status, that's the 21 bar that they have to meet. And once you get 22 to that bar, you're fine. Well, it's really 23 not that way, not if we have the laws that we 24 have on the books. 25 You want to change the laws on the

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(518) 371-8910 1 books? If we want to say as a nation that 2 anyone who comes to our shores and arrives 3 here safely is welcomed, period, end, they can 4 vote the next day or whatever you want them to 5 do as citizens, or declare them as citizens, 6 that's a law. That's a change. But that is 7 not the law in this country. It's not the 8 regulations that are the outcropping of those 9 laws. And I think that's what concerns many 10 people around this state. 11 Senator Parker mentioned President 12 Bush. President Bush came out with a proposal 13 to give amnesty to all of those who are here 14 now illegally, if you will, but give them 15 status so they could remain. It was 16 universally rejected. By Congress? Not 17 necessarily. But by the American people, 18 people along all the southern states, along 19 the borders. People don't like that idea. 20 They think that there's a process and we ought 21 to meet that process. 22 So I get a little upset when I hear 23 this anti-immigration talk. I don't think 24 anybody would be in this room without 25 immigration. So that is not purpose of this

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(518) 371-8910 1 bill. 2 We use the ID, the driver's 3 license, as an acceptable, universal ID all 4 through this state and indeed this nation. If 5 I go to an airport, I have to show my passport 6 or my driver's license. If I cash a check, I 7 have to show my driver's license. There's not 8 anything I do that takes verification that I 9 don't have to show my driver's license. So 10 we're talking about probably the most 11 intrinsic document that verifies our 12 citizenship or being and who we are. Even if 13 we don't drive, we now use the same process 14 for the nondriving resident ID. 15 Now, if you don't like that, then 16 we ought to propose different sorts of laws. 17 But what Senator Padavan is proposing here is 18 that this is something that's being done as we 19 speak. They have found hundreds of thousands 20 of people with fraudulent IDs -- and licenses, 21 therefore. And I don't know that I feel 22 comfortable with 200,000 people riding around 23 with fraudulent driver's licenses. We don't 24 know how they got them. Did they pass a test, 25 they didn't pass a test? Are they insured?

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(518) 371-8910 1 It brings up a host of other questions, not 2 merely going to work. 3 There's ways to deal with the 4 immigration problems. When I met with Mr. Jim 5 Kallstrom, former FBI director for New York 6 City, when I was chairing the Veterans and 7 Military Affairs Committee in this Senate, we 8 talked about security. And at that time it 9 was almost a laughingstock on the security 10 around this building after we even put it in 11 place. It's still something that's built like 12 a sieve. And I asked him, "How do we really 13 deal with that?" He said, "Senator, this is 14 all cosmetic. It's all about feeling a little 15 bit safer." 16 But you're not safe. You're not 17 safe till you protect your borders. You're 18 not safe till you know who's inside the 19 borders. That's when we'll be safe. I don't 20 know that we'll ever be there, but we 21 certainly should have that as some sort of 22 goal. 23 Look at the alleged vigilantes that 24 were covering the borders in the southeast 25 part of -- the southwest, rather, in Texas,

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(518) 371-8910 1 along the borders. Citizens who were so riled 2 up about the immigration, illegal immigration, 3 that they took it onto themselves to guard the 4 borders. That's a very dangerous situation. 5 That's how things bad things happen. But it 6 shows how driven people are about this issue. 7 The Department of Motor Vehicles 8 now does its screening. It does what it does, 9 there is an appeal process. Obviously, one 10 appeal went to court and it was found -- the 11 court said they didn't have the authority 12 because there was no specific law saying this 13 or that. But the court did not dismiss the 14 case. The court did not say that Motor 15 Vehicles was wrong. It just said they didn't 16 have the authority to back them up. 17 This bill does that. This bill 18 should be nothing to be feared for -- feared 19 by immigrants or illegal -- legal immigrants. 20 Illegal aliens, that's another issue. 21 How do we deal with the illegal 22 aliens that are in the country already, paying 23 taxes, if they are, supporting their families, 24 as they do? I represent a farming community 25 as well as others. And we do much for the

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(518) 371-8910 1 immigrant farmers. And these are itinerant 2 farmers, labors, if you will, who come from 3 across our borders with papers and work here 4 temporarily, bring in the crops, and go back 5 home to their families. 6 Some bring their families. I visit 7 with their children in summer schools when 8 they're being trained up here and educated up 9 here. But they are immigrants for a purpose. 10 They're farmworkers. They come under 11 regulations, and they are protected by 12 regulations. 13 So I believe this bill deserves our 14 support. I support you, Senator Padavan, in 15 this attempt to bring some control, if you 16 will, over what is happening around us. 17 Thank you, Madam President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 19 you, Senator Morahan. 20 Senator Marcellino. 21 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Madam 22 President, very briefly. 23 But when we're talking about the 24 illegal status, what we're talking about is 25 condemning people to be permanently in an

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(518) 371-8910 1 underclass, permanently in a limbo state where 2 they have no recourse to the courts, in fact, 3 because if they do go to the police, go to the 4 authorities, they're exposing their illegal 5 status and putting themselves at risk. 6 Someone talked about them paying 7 taxes. Aside from sales tax, I don't know 8 what they could pay. They're mostly paid off 9 the books. They're not paid on the books. 10 They can't be paid on the books because they 11 don't have legal status. 12 So we're dealing with a group of 13 people who really do not have access to the 14 American dream that they've come here for. 15 And I agree, most -- they're not coming here 16 to be terrorists, most are not here to be 17 terrorists, most are not here to do bad 18 things. Most are coming here to seek a better 19 life. I agree with that. And I think we 20 should make an effort to determine that and to 21 try to help them in every way that we can to 22 achieve a legal status. 23 But by perpetuating this myth that 24 when you come here illegally it's okay, come 25 here but you're going to have to take the

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(518) 371-8910 1 lowest-paid wages, you're going to not be able 2 to get health benefits, you're going to not be 3 able to go to the courts, you're in a constant 4 state of movement, you can't get a mortgage 5 because you couldn't qualify with a background 6 check, you can't do anything that everybody 7 else who has legal status can do, we're 8 perpetuating a myth. 9 We're also creating a group of 10 people, as I said before, who will be and can 11 be exploited by a group of unscrupulous 12 employers who want them permanently to be in 13 an underpaid underclass. That is not my idea 14 of the American dream. And that shouldn't be 15 perpetuated in this country. 16 We should seek to help anyone who 17 wants to come here legally to obtain a legal 18 status. I have no problem with that. It's 19 this somehow idealizing that I hear from the 20 other side about this group of people who have 21 come here and somehow they're going to elevate 22 themselves up. It's not going to happen, 23 because the law is going to stop them. 24 They're going to run into that wall. They are 25 illegal. And when that's discovered, they

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(518) 371-8910 1 have a problem. 2 So let's address the problem. 3 Identify. This bill should be passed. It's a 4 step to identify. This bill will bring them 5 in. This bill gives them the right to make 6 the applications. This bill gives them the 7 right to go through a process. But if you 8 don't bring them in, you're perpetually 9 keeping them under the thumb of people who 10 would exploit them for their own bad ends. 11 And that's not a good thing. 12 So let's deal with their illegal 13 status first. Let's make them legal. Let's 14 help people who want to become American 15 citizens and achieve the American dream get 16 their wish. Let's do it legally. Everybody's 17 welcome to our shores through the front door, 18 not the back door. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 20 you, Senator Marcellino. 21 Senator Parker. 22 SENATOR PARKER: Yes, Madam 23 President, on the bill. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: On the 25 bill.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR PARKER: I rise again to 2 address a couple of things that I think we 3 really don't understand here, because I'm 4 hearing a lot of inaccuracies. 5 And first, let me apologize to 6 Senator Padavan if I have in any way 7 disparaged your name or your reputation to 8 make people think that you are anti-immigrant. 9 If my comments have offended you, I do 10 apologize. 11 However, if I see bills that come 12 up that the New York Immigration Coalition, 13 that groups like the Community Action Project 14 in my district and other immigration 15 organizations are coming up and they're 16 saying, time after time, that this bill by 17 Senator Padavan, this bill by Senator Padavan, 18 this bill by Senator Padavan, this bill by 19 Senator Padavan are problematic to their 20 constituents, and to my constituents, I have 21 to call them as I see them. 22 So I apologize if you are offended. 23 There's a couple of things that 24 have been going on, and one of which is that 25 people have been throwing around this 600,000

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(518) 371-8910 1 number of people that the DMV has found. And 2 people are saying that these 600,000 people 3 all have illegal numbers and are somehow 4 cheating the system. That is absolutely 5 wrong, untrue, and incorrect. 6 The reality is you have to 7 understand the history. And the history of 8 this problem is that up until a few months 9 ago, people in the State of New York -- the 10 State of New York did not require people to 11 have a Social Security number or tax ID number 12 in order to have a driver's license. 13 A few months ago, arbitrarily, the 14 Commissioner of the Department of 15 Transportation started to require this. They 16 sent out letters and they identified in their 17 database a large number of people who were 18 either missing Social Security or tax ID 19 numbers, or there was some incongruence in 20 terms of those numbers sometimes being held by 21 several people. 22 Yeah, there's fraud in it. But you 23 show me one system, not just in this state or 24 this country, but show me one system that 25 doesn't have some level of fraud. And I think

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(518) 371-8910 1 we should deal with the fraud and we should 2 root that out. But if we're going to start 3 dealing with fraud, let's talk about the 4 Empire Zone program. Let's begin, let's begin 5 with large numbers of -- 6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Will he yield. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 8 you. 9 Senator Padavan requests that you 10 yield. 11 SENATOR PARKER: I will not yield 12 now. I'll finish my statement, and I'll be 13 happy to yield to the Senator after I'm done 14 with my comments. 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'll wait. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 17 you. 18 SENATOR PARKER: So you have, you 19 know, fraud in almost any program. And if 20 we're going to start looking at fraud, let's 21 look at fraud that in fact costs the taxpayers 22 of the State of New York literally hundreds of 23 millions of dollars every year, if we're going 24 to start talking about fraud. 25 The reality is people now need

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(518) 371-8910 1 driver's licenses to conduct work, to get to 2 work. And I was glad to hear from Senator 3 Morahan about his upbringing. And I'm not 4 sure how old Senator Morahan is, or how old 5 his parents are, but the world has changed 6 significantly in terms of what people need in 7 terms of cars. You know? 8 And again, without me trying to 9 just speculate a time frame, you know, the 10 amount of cars on the streets, the amount of 11 taxis on the streets, the amount of trucks on 12 the streets, the amount of the need for 13 transportation has increased substantially 14 over the last 50 or 60 years, let alone the 15 last hundred years. And so, you know, the 16 needs for immigrants to have driver's licenses 17 is really at a premium. 18 I think what we, you know, continue 19 to do -- because I've heard a couple of people 20 say this bill is an answer. I really am 21 serious about the fact that I think we need to 22 have more dialogue about what the solution is 23 on this bill, because certainly this bill does 24 not deal with security issues. This bill, 25 despite what everybody is saying, does not

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(518) 371-8910 1 give people who are out of status, it does not 2 give out of status an opportunity to become in 3 status. It just simply doesn't do it. 4 First of all, the state is not in 5 charge of that. So how does the State 6 Legislature supersede the federal government 7 as it relates to immigration when that's a 8 federal issue? So we couldn't do it if we 9 wanted to do it. I wish we could. You know, 10 I wish we could do it; then maybe we could get 11 some conversation. But the reality is that 12 this bill does not help people who are out of 13 status. 14 And lastly, I would love to work 15 with some colleagues, I don't care on what 16 side of the aisle, on a bill that really puts 17 some significant funding into a treatment for 18 xenophobia. Because I really think that 19 there's an outbreak that's affecting the 20 Legislature in particular, and maybe some of 21 the people around the country. And so, you 22 know, I hope to do that. 23 And I will yield if Senator Padavan 24 has a question. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Padavan. 2 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator Parker, 3 I just want to be sure I heard you correctly. 4 Did you indicate a moment ago that the 5 requirement of a Social Security number on 6 your application for a driver's license is not 7 as I've stated it to be? 8 What did you say? I'm not sure. 9 SENATOR PARKER: I did say that. 10 And let me explain, because that deserves some 11 explanation. 12 On the form they did ask for it. 13 So when we understand the idea of policy, 14 policy can be two things. In government, 15 policy can be what we actually write. The law 16 of the State of New York, regulations from an 17 agency is policy. But what an agency actually 18 does is also policy. 19 So, yes, it was on the books. It 20 was something that they asked for. But it was 21 not something that they ever enforced. Up 22 until about 18 months ago, the requirement for 23 a Social Security number or a tax ID number 24 was never enforced. And so, by policy, it 25 wasn't required.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well, Senator, 2 then let me share with you. You've seen, I'm 3 sure, the application for a driver's license. 4 And that section dealing with Social Security 5 number is very clear, along with all the other 6 basic requirements, including your sex, 7 height, eye color, and so on. This is an 8 official department document, by regulation, 9 authorized by law. 10 Now, whether or not in years back, 11 whatever the time may be, they didn't check 12 everybody as carefully as they're now doing or 13 attempting to do, does that make this 14 requirement any less lawful? 15 SENATOR PARKER: Yes. 16 SENATOR PADAVAN: In what way? 17 SENATOR PARKER: Because it 18 wasn't the policy. You weren't enforcing it. 19 For instance, you know, people in 20 New York City -- in your district, I'm sure, 21 as in my district -- people jaywalk all the 22 time. It is illegal? Yes, it's illegal. But 23 how many people are getting stopped for 24 jaywalking? Except on Queens Boulevard. But 25 other than that, where are people getting

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(518) 371-8910 1 stopped for jaywalking in the City of 2 New York? 3 Policy is both what is written in 4 law, as I've indicated -- I'm not disagreeing 5 with that -- but policy also is what people 6 do. And all the time, in courts across the 7 country, policies that are written down are 8 overturned by what has been the practice and 9 then the real policy of our agencies and our 10 government. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 12 you. 13 Senator Padavan. 14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Then you've 15 answered my question. And I'll ask you, if 16 you have not -- but I believe you have -- it 17 is regulation established by law, meaning that 18 the State Department of Motor Vehicles not 19 only has the authority but the responsibility 20 to see that their applications are valid, that 21 they're not fraudulently applied for -- a 22 license, that is -- that someone hasn't lied 23 on this application. 24 You would agree with that? 25 SENATOR PARKER: Yes, absolutely.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 3 you. 4 Senator Serrano. 5 SENATOR SERRANO: Thank you, 6 Madam President. On the bill. 7 One thing that I'm very concerned 8 about that I keep hearing from the other side 9 is how immigration back at the turn of the 10 century was done in a way and that those 11 should follow it now. 12 But I think it should be pointed 13 out that immigration now is much stricter than 14 it was back then. It's far more difficult for 15 new immigrants to get the necessary 16 documentation that they need to come to this 17 country because of the quotas. And since 18 9/11, the federal government has used that as 19 a further excuse to curtail new immigration. 20 And I think it's wrong. I think it's very 21 dehumanizing. 22 And another thing that I find 23 equally distressing is that on the other side, 24 whenever the discussion of immigration comes 25 up, it is immediately linked with terrorism.

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(518) 371-8910 1 This link between immigration and terrorism is 2 something that we really have to look at, 3 because we are failing to understand that the 4 vast majority of immigrants are here for a 5 better life for themselves and for their 6 families for generations to come. And some 7 are so desperate to be in this great nation 8 that they risk their lives every day coming 9 here. 10 Now, the last time I checked, 11 Timothy McVeigh was an American and was not an 12 illegal immigrant, yet he committed one of the 13 most horrific crimes on American soil. So if 14 we want to talk about terrorism, let's talk 15 about terrorism. Let's talk about curtailing 16 the activities of those here and abroad who 17 want to hurt American citizens. But let's 18 stop linking the immigrants to terrorism. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 20 Padavan. 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Will you yield 22 for a question, Senator. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 24 Serrano, do you yield? 25 SENATOR SERRANO: Yes.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 2 you. Senator Serrano yields. 3 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yesterday we 4 passed a bill in this house dealing with 5 immigrants who were being abused, enslaved, 6 turned into prostitutes, into bondage. Did 7 you vote for that bill? 8 SENATOR SERRANO: I did, yes. 9 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes, you did, 10 because everybody voted for it. It passed 11 unanimously. 12 SENATOR SERRANO: Yes. 13 SENATOR PADAVAN: Now, who do you 14 think is perpetrating those crimes? The 15 illegal immigrants. And who are they hurting? 16 Immigrants. 17 So we talk about these issues of 18 fraud, matters of this sort, we're not only 19 talking about people who are not in that 20 category, the victims are immigrants. 21 Last year we passed a bill dealing 22 with individuals who hold themselves out to be 23 what are called notarios, charging $20,000, 24 $30,000 for a green card. Which passed, I 25 believe, unanimously. Who were the victims?

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(518) 371-8910 1 They were immigrants. Who were the 2 perpetrators? Immigrants. 3 So the point of the matter is when 4 we deal with these issues, we're talking about 5 our society in general, not just those 6 individuals who came to this country 7 illegally. In the City of New York, 8 invariably, the people who are victims of 9 crime are people who are foreign-born. And we 10 have to protect them as we protect everyone 11 else. Would you agree? 12 SENATOR SERRANO: Yes, Senator. 13 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you. 14 SENATOR SERRANO: If I may, Madam 15 President, to continue on the bill. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 17 you. On the bill. 18 SENATOR SERRANO: I think, 19 Senator Padavan, you've brought up a very good 20 issue, although I don't think it's entirely 21 germane to my point. 22 My point being that since 9/11, 23 every discussion about immigration has been 24 linked to terrorism. And I think that that is 25 extremely unfair, and I think it's wrong. The

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(518) 371-8910 1 bottom line is that the reason why this nation 2 is so great is because of immigrants, because 3 of the immigrants who have come here to build 4 a better today and a better tomorrow. 5 And when we continually send the 6 wrong message to new immigrants, we are 7 betraying the founding principles of this 8 nation. 9 Thank you, Madam President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 11 you, Senator. 12 Senator LaValle. 13 SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you, 14 Madam President. I'd like to speak on the 15 bill. But before I do, I'd like to ask the 16 sponsor one question. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 18 you. 19 Does the sponsor yield? 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 21 SENATOR LaVALLE: Senator, before 22 I make my remarks, I just want to make 23 absolutely sure that I understand what the 24 issue is here, because we've gone kind of far 25 afield.

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(518) 371-8910 1 The federal government has passed 2 an act that requires the states within a 3 three-year period of time to pass state 4 legislation or else there are some 5 consequences for the citizens of our state. 6 Am I understanding this correctly? 7 SENATOR PADAVAN: That's correct. 8 SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you very 9 much. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 11 you. 12 Senator LaValle, on the bill. 13 SENATOR LaVALLE: Madam 14 President, on the bill. 15 Just recently, and I think it -- 16 the debate kind of echoes our Congressman, in 17 a discussion I had, who said that the 18 number-one issue that he was facing in town 19 meetings that he had was over immigration 20 policy. 21 And we're seeing that frustration. 22 And of course, as has been mentioned, the 23 president and Congress have to enact a policy 24 that has some fairness to it and also allows 25 for the economic viability to continue in this

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(518) 371-8910 1 country. And the debate has mentioned this. 2 I wanted to rise because, as many 3 of the speakers, my grandparents came to this 4 country with, as all other immigrants, with 5 only those goods that they could carry with 6 them from Italy. And I can feel in this 7 debate the same kind of feelings that my 8 grandparents had whenever we talked about the 9 government. Whenever the government was 10 involved, they would get very nervous, very 11 circumspect. 12 And yet my grandmother worked in a 13 situation as a seamstress and I remember, as a 14 very young child, going to where my 15 grandmother worked and seeing literally rows 16 and rows and rows of sewing machines in a 17 situation where they were all jammed together. 18 No air-conditioning. I don't think -- I think 19 they had to ask permission to go to the 20 bathroom. And very little time to eat. 21 I saw -- my grandfather had a 22 poultry farm, and whenever the county agent 23 came, my grandfather was always nervous 24 because he came from Italy and spoke broken 25 English. But he wanted to make sure that all

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(518) 371-8910 1 the laws were complied with, because he was 2 afraid that because he came from the other 3 side, even though he became a citizen, that 4 the government would point their finger at 5 him. 6 That was, as was pointed out, a 7 different period of time, because they came in 8 to this country through Ellis Island, as did 9 probably many of the people, many of us here 10 in this chamber, our families. Today is a 11 little different. 12 But you cannot turn your back on 13 what happened on 9/11. And so with this 14 legislation, we are part of the federalist 15 system, we are complying with what the federal 16 government has asked us to do. 17 And I looked through a form that 18 Senator Padavan had from the National 19 Conference of State Legislatures, and I don't 20 see on here much of an opportunity -- and we 21 can hold all of the hearings we want. The 22 federal government is asking us to do very 23 specific and precise things within a very 24 specific period of time, with sanctions if we 25 do not do that. So that's why I asked the

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(518) 371-8910 1 sponsor for confirmation of that, that I was 2 reading that correctly. 3 And so we can, for different 4 reasons, find that immigration policy is tough 5 and that, yes, we have a lot of people working 6 in many, many different industries that are 7 doing jobs that United States citizens 8 seemingly don't want and what happens if they 9 have to return back to their countries. 10 So it is very complex. But that's 11 not the issue before us. The issue is to get 12 our state in compliance with federal law. 13 Thank you, Madam President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 15 you, Senator LaValle. 16 Senator Sabini. 17 SENATOR SABINI: Thank you, Madam 18 President. On the bill. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: On the 20 bill. 21 SENATOR SABINI: Two things sort 22 of struck me during the debate here. 23 One is that there's a pretty broad 24 gap between what the DMV sought to do by 25 checking Social Security numbers and what the

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(518) 371-8910 1 federal law seeks to do, which is to prove 2 legal status. 3 Now, the Social Security Act, which 4 was brought into our country under the 5 administration of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 6 who served in this room, the Social Security 7 Act says that you can't use the Social 8 Security number you're given as an ID number, 9 nor can it be required of you to be your ID 10 number by anyone. By anyone. That's on your 11 original Social Security documents you got 12 when you first applied. 13 And that has been part of suits 14 across the country on this that make it a 15 taxpayer ID number, use some other form of 16 documentation. But what DMV did in running 17 these numbers has now been halted by a court. 18 Another thing that strikes me as a 19 little funny is that -- and I don't want to 20 tell people there's no Santa Claus or the 21 Easter Bunny, but we were voting on a budget 22 here on March 31st, and in that budget there 23 was a reduction in the budget line of DMV for 24 doing that. You all voted on that. You all 25 voted yes on that.

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(518) 371-8910 1 That was as a result of very hard 2 work by Assemblyman Reuben Diaz, for telling 3 DMV if you're going to do something that we 4 all agree isn't supposed to be done, we're not 5 going to let -- we're going to smack your 6 budget for it a little bit. 7 So we've already voted that this 8 was a bad policy. A court's already ruled 9 it's a bad policy. And the Social Security -- 10 the original Social Security Act says we don't 11 want a federal ID. Now, maybe we need one 12 now. But it shouldn't be your Social Security 13 number. And there are moves to have one now. 14 Smart ID, Smart Card, I've heard all these 15 different terms. And that may be what comes 16 down the pike. 17 But what we're dealing with today I 18 don't think is workable for the people that we 19 have now in our state performing jobs that 20 keep our economy going. 21 And I don't cast any aspersions on 22 anyone's motivation on this. I want a secure 23 country as well. I wish the federal 24 government wanted to secure our borders as 25 much as I do, because I agree that our borders

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(518) 371-8910 1 aren't secure. 2 We wouldn't be allowed admission to 3 the United Nations today, under the United 4 Nations rules on admissions, because we don't 5 have secure borders. That's a number-one rule 6 for admission to the U.N., to have safe and 7 secure and definable borders. We don't. I 8 admit that. But that's the federal 9 government's fault. 10 What this bill deals with is not 11 our borders, and in some ways it doesn't even 12 deal with our security. It deals with our 13 citizenship and our populace -- not just legal 14 citizens, but people living in our state right 15 now and whether or not they can continue to 16 pursue their livelihoods. 17 So maybe not for some of the 18 reasons others have talked about, but I think 19 we've already made our position clear on this 20 by voting for the budget and reducing the DMV 21 budget by an amount certain that covered the 22 amount that they used to do this action, which 23 has been halted by the court. 24 So I'm going to be voting in the 25 negative.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 2 you. 3 Senator Schneiderman. 4 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 5 Madam President -- oh, Senator Oppenheimer. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 7 Oppenheimer. 8 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you. 9 Just briefly. 10 I'll be voting against this bill 11 for a very pragmatic reason. We had a meeting 12 in my village, in one of our churches, where 13 about 250 of our immigrants in our village 14 came, and they clearly were saying that they 15 will continue to go to their jobs. They all 16 have jobs, and they will not give up their 17 jobs and the income that comes from those jobs 18 even though they will be deprived, very 19 possibly, of their driver's license. 20 So I feel that my safety is 21 somewhat questioned when we have drivers 22 driving without licenses but feel that they 23 must continue their commitment to their jobs 24 and to the money which their jobs bring for 25 their families. So we will have a lot of

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(518) 371-8910 1 drivers who will be driving without licenses, 2 and I think that is something that's very 3 fearful. 4 So I'll be voting no. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 6 you, Senator. 7 Senator Schneiderman. 8 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 9 Madam President. 10 I think that we're here -- this has 11 been a very interesting debate, and I would 12 urge my colleagues, even those who may be 13 getting a little impatient, that there are few 14 issues that we will be addressing that are 15 more pressing and that are more vital to the 16 future of our state than issues related to 17 immigration in the years ahead of us. 18 So we should get used to this, and 19 we should focus in on it, and we should get 20 the perspective that we need to deal with this 21 issue. Because we have never, in the great 22 City of New York, had more immigrants than we 23 have now. The city is doing well because of 24 them. Many of them are undocumented. But 25 we're going to have to deal with the reality

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(518) 371-8910 1 here. 2 I think there are two fallacies 3 that we're confronting in this particular 4 debate. The first fallacy is that we need to 5 pass this bill now. We do not need to ever 6 pass this bill to comply with the federal act. 7 There are other options. 8 Second, we certainly don't need to 9 pass any bill now. We have some more time. 10 And as Senator Balboni observed, which may 11 have been the most prescient observation in 12 this entire debate, quote, We need to talk 13 more about this, close quote. And I realize a 14 lot of you can make jokes about Senator 15 Balboni's propensity to loquaciousness, but in 16 this case I think he's absolutely right. We 17 do not need to pass this bill ever. There are 18 other options. And we certainly don't need to 19 pass anything now. 20 Other states -- most of the 21 arguments that have been raised here related 22 to the uses of driver's licenses for purposes 23 other than operating a motor vehicle. That's 24 exactly what some other states are looking at, 25 systems for delinking the motor vehicle

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(518) 371-8910 1 requirements in licenses from anything to do 2 with immigration status. We should be looking 3 at that. 4 We need to talk more about this 5 before we pass a bill that has negative 6 unintended consequences that quite honestly, I 7 think, really fly off the page. I think 8 Senator Diaz read from it, I read from it. 9 It's pretty obvious that there are going to be 10 some severe negative consequences from this 11 particular bill. 12 So fallacy one, we don't have to 13 pass this bill ever in its present form. 14 There are other options. And we certainly 15 don't need to pass it now. We should talk 16 more about this. 17 Fallacy two -- and this is the more 18 fundamental issue which I think we're going to 19 be grappling with in the years ahead -- not 20 all the people who are here without documents 21 are people who are, quote, up to no good. The 22 vast majority of the undocumented immigrants 23 who are working in this country and living in 24 this country are in fact people who are up to 25 a great deal of good. They're supporting

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(518) 371-8910 1 their families, they've come here in many 2 cases because they are fleeing from severe 3 oppression or poverty in other places. 4 And I would urge that whatever 5 steps we take to get rid of the myth that 6 Senator Marcellino referred to, they are going 7 to continue to come, because there are places 8 in the world that are a lot worse than any 9 situation an immigrant will find here. 10 And most of these people are here 11 trying to do something better for themselves 12 and their families. And while most people 13 here's families came legally to this country, 14 there are members of this legislature I know 15 whose families came here unlawfully. I know 16 members of this legislature who themselves 17 came here without papers. And they are making 18 a contribution. 19 The laws change. And I 20 respectfully submit that whether we like it or 21 not, the laws at the federal level will change 22 to deal with the fact that we have tens of 23 millions of people here unlawfully and we're 24 not going to get rid of them through a system 25 of oppression and deportation.

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(518) 371-8910 1 So, ladies and gentlemen, those two 2 fallacies I think compel us to vote against 3 this bill. Let's not conflate undocumented 4 immigrants with people up to no good. Let's 5 deal with the reality. 6 As Senator Parker pointed out, 7 there is law up in the ivory tower and there 8 is law on the ground. And there's no one 9 who's ever worked in law enforcement who will 10 not tell you that you make a judgment call 11 every day: I'm going to pull that car over 12 with a broken taillight, I'm going to let that 13 one go. These are judgment calls. 14 The law will change at the federal 15 level, and the law is changing on the ground 16 now because the law enforcement authorities 17 know they cannot enforce this broken system of 18 federal laws regarding the millions of people 19 who are living here, trying to support their 20 families, who the law makes the subjects of 21 the oppression that I think Senator Marcellino 22 rightly referred to. 23 But don't misunderstand this. This 24 bill, if we pass it, will not just have an 25 effect on people who are here without papers.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Legal immigrants are terrified of going into 2 government offices now, because what if they 3 make a mistake, as happens often. Senator 4 Diaz spoke about people supporting their 5 families. You can't afford to be locked up 6 wrongfully for a few weeks and then get out: 7 Oh, we made a mistake. 8 We have immigrants who are afraid 9 to report things to the police, legal 10 immigrants, because they're concerned about 11 that kind of an inquiry, afraid to go to a 12 hospital when they are seeking medical care. 13 This is a crisis that will not be 14 dealt with by pretending that the law is the 15 law and it's going to be enforced. And I 16 think we should get on to the real debate that 17 Senator Parker encouraged us to. 18 But this bill we do not need to 19 pass now, we do not need to pass in its 20 current form. Let's talk about delinkage of 21 immigrant status and driver's licenses. Let's 22 keep the system of driver's licenses working 23 to keep us all safe on the roads and not drive 24 people away and create more hit-and-run 25 accidents where people have to run because

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(518) 371-8910 1 they aren't allowed to get driver's licenses. 2 And let's take Senator Balboni's 3 words to heart. We need to talk more about 4 this. I assure you, we will be talking more 5 about this. 6 And, Senator Diaz, this is not an 7 exercise in futility, because often we see 8 bills that are one-house bills and because of 9 the debate that takes place, sometimes the 10 next year the bill's a little different and 11 sometimes the Assembly moves things in another 12 direction. 13 So I commend all my colleagues on 14 both sides of the aisle for this debate. I 15 encourage us to vote no, and let's get down to 16 the real work of coping with a great state 17 made greater by the presence of immigrants, 18 legal and illegal, who need the law to address 19 their real needs. 20 Thank you, Madam President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 22 you. 23 Is there any other Senator wishing 24 to be heard? 25 The debate is closed.

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(518) 371-8910 1 The Secretary will ring the bell. 2 Read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect on the 180th day. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 9 Padavan, to explain his vote. 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Very briefly, 11 Madam President. 12 I just wanted to take this moment 13 to respond to a couple of statements made by 14 Senator Schneiderman. 15 He said we don't have to ever pass 16 this kind of legislation, now or in the 17 future. I presume that's what he meant. I 18 would refer him to the Real ID Act of 2005 19 enacted by the Congress of the United States 20 and signed into law on May 11th this year. In 21 page after page, it states "a state shall," "a 22 state shall," "a state shall." And it lists 23 all the things that we are required to do. 24 It's not "may," it says "shall." 25 We will. So that statement that this is

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(518) 371-8910 1 something we will not have to do ever is 2 totally false. 3 The second issue I would agree with 4 him on. The overwhelming majority of 5 immigrants in this country who live in my 6 district, and in yours, are here for good 7 purposes -- to raise a family, the American 8 dream, and everything that goes with it. But 9 as we learned, sadly, while there were 10 hundreds of immigrants in the World Trade 11 Center on that day, it only took a handful to 12 dispose of them. They were the victims. It 13 only takes a small number to cause great harm 14 and tragedy to a large population. And that's 15 what this is all about. 16 I vote aye. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 18 you. 19 Senator Padavan will be recorded in 20 the affirmative. 21 Senator Diaz, to explain his vote. 22 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, Madam 23 President. 24 Just when all of you vote, those of 25 you that are going to vote in favor of this

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(518) 371-8910 1 bill, when you vote in favor of this bill you 2 are voting not only to stop issuing driver's 3 licenses, you are voting to authorize the 4 Department of Transportation to report anybody 5 that doesn't have the right papers. 6 So today you're voting to authorize 7 or to make the Department of Transportation a 8 branch of the immigration department. 9 Tomorrow, which one will be next -- the 10 Department of Education? Department of 11 Health? Which department will be next? 12 Today this piece of legislation not 13 only stops issuing licenses, you're also 14 authorizing the Department of Transportation 15 to report people under suspicion. So I'm 16 telling you, be careful what you're doing. 17 This is the wrong way to do it. This is the 18 wrong message. And I'm voting no. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 20 you. 21 Senator Diaz will be recorded in 22 the negative. 23 Senator Schneiderman. 24 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, Madam 25 President, just very briefly to explain my

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(518) 371-8910 1 vote. 2 Just to set the record clear, and 3 I'm sure we will have many opportunities to 4 discuss these issues, I didn't say we don't 5 have to pass a bill to comply with the federal 6 law, I said we don't have to pass this precise 7 bill. Other states are looking at other 8 options. 9 And again, I think Senator 10 Balboni's words are right. We should take 11 more time to talk about this. We can do 12 better than this. We can come up with a 13 better proposal. I didn't mean, as Senator 14 Padavan suggests, we don't have to pass 15 something. But we don't have to pass this 16 specific bill, and we do have more time to 17 work on it. 18 I will be voting no. 19 Thank you, Madam President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 21 Schneiderman will be recorded in the negative. 22 Senator Balboni, to explain his 23 vote. 24 SENATOR BALBONI: Madam 25 President, I would compliment the members of

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(518) 371-8910 1 this chamber for taking on this issue. This 2 is an issue that many people are very 3 reluctant to discuss because it goes to the 4 very heart, as I said before, of the dynamic 5 tensions in our society. 6 And many of the things we talk 7 about here, perhaps people sit there and say, 8 Well, we don't have much of an impact. 9 Whether we talk about border security -- I 10 mean, what is the State of New York talking 11 about border security for? We're only a 12 state. 13 Well, ask any of the 14 representatives who border Canada and realize, 15 please, ladies and gentlemen, that probably 16 one of the greatest threats we have to our 17 security is the immigration policy not of this 18 state or this nation, but of Canada. It 19 allows someone to come in, anyone, and to have 20 a declaration of political asylum without 21 checking who they are. And now they are a 22 Canadian citizen, and as a Canadian citizen 23 they are allowed to come across our border at 24 any time. 25 This issue today is more about

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(518) 371-8910 1 security and driver safety. Because when you 2 have a driver's license, statistics show you 3 are a better driver. And there is an eerie 4 correlation between unlicensed drivers and 5 fatalities. 6 It's also about information 7 security and all the things we've talked about 8 in terms of hijacking our personal 9 information. If you don't have a secure 10 driver's license system, you're much more 11 vulnerable as a society to someone coming in 12 and hacking your personal ID. 13 But today what we've done is 14 something that the other house isn't doing. 15 We're at least talking about this. And as 16 many questions as are present in this 17 particular debate, at least the debate is 18 occurring. 19 I don't like the way this system 20 was handled, this bill was handled at the 21 federal level. I've said that. And I think 22 it's going to lead to great consternation. 23 But as with all things we do in this 24 government, it is a balance. It is a balance 25 between the needs of the many -- and there are

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(518) 371-8910 1 18 million people in this state that we should 2 be concerned about, 18 million. And I 3 understand and recognize that if this policy 4 were to be adopted today in this particular 5 form by this Department of Motor Vehicles, 6 then you would have had 300,000 people who 7 would then be put in jeopardy in terms of 8 staying in this country. 9 But, ladies and gentlemen, are we 10 going continue to walk past the cemetery? Are 11 we going to continue to ignore this issue and 12 sit back and say that as a free nation we'll 13 let anybody in, no matter what they are, and 14 not have them do the basic responsibility of 15 trying to become a citizen and enable them to 16 do? That the answer is no, we can't do that. 17 Madam President, I'm going to vote 18 for the bill, with the hope that we get this 19 right. 20 And I would also like to encourage 21 Senator Parker, I know you. You're sincere 22 about your efforts to try to make an impact in 23 the federal government. Let's do it. Let's 24 put a letter together, talk about border 25 security in this state as it affects this

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(518) 371-8910 1 nation. 2 Thank you, Madam President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 4 you. 5 Senator Balboni will be recorded in 6 the affirmative. 7 Senator Hassell-Thompson, to 8 explain her vote. 9 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank 10 you, Madam President. Just briefly. 11 In the 36th Senatorial District -- 12 I heard one of my colleagues talk about the 13 fact that they have one of the most diverse 14 communities in this country, and I would say 15 to you that it must mirror mine very 16 distinctly, because there are over 96 17 different languages spoken every day, 18 particularly just in the Mount Vernon portion 19 of that district alone. 20 But in the Bronx, our district is 21 made up of people from Nigeria, from Ghana, 22 from every country island within the 23 Caribbean, some from the Mediterranean, and 24 certainly from South and Latin America. 25 My office is -- does not have

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(518) 371-8910 1 jurisdictional responsibility for immigration, 2 and yet my staff spends almost a third of its 3 time working with people around issues of 4 immigration. And very few to none of them 5 would be those who are not interested in 6 becoming citizens in this country. 7 Many of them come to us because 8 they've been here and their papers have been 9 in for more than five years. Being processed 10 is a major, major issue. And it isn't because 11 they've done anything wrong or they've broken 12 the law or anything, it's just that we 13 continue to cut back in the federal 14 government, as well as in state government, 15 and we cut back in the places where it hurts 16 those that can afford it the least. 17 And so when we spend an inordinate 18 amount of time helping people to process 19 paper, and to have us sit here in the state 20 Senate and create further barriers to that, it 21 makes me very, very uncomfortable. 22 I, like Senator Balboni, sit on the 23 Veterans, Homeland Security and Military 24 Affairs Committee and have worked with him 25 very conscientiously for over a year on the

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(518) 371-8910 1 Homeland Security Committee for the State 2 Senate. And both of us are very aware of some 3 of the dangers, certainly, that Senator 4 Padavan talks about. 5 But I don't want us to rush to 6 judgment. I don't want us to rush and do 7 something because we have to without giving 8 the right thought to the process. And 9 therefore I will vote no on this bill, but 10 also will volunteer to work with Senators 11 Balboni, Padavan and Parker to put together 12 language for a bill, as well as a letter to 13 our federal government asking them to move on 14 it in a better process. 15 And so for that reason, I will be 16 voting no at this time on this particular 17 bill. 18 Thank you, Madam President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 20 you. 21 Senator Hassell-Thompson will be 22 recorded in the negative. 23 The Secretary will announce the 24 results. 25 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in

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(518) 371-8910 1 the negative on Calendar Number 1356 are 2 Senators Connor, Diaz, Dilan, Duane, Gonzalez, 3 Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, C. Kruger, 4 Montgomery, Oppenheimer, Parker, Paterson, 5 Sabini, Savino, Schneiderman, Serrano, 6 A. Smith, M. Smith and Stavisky. 7 Those Senators absent from voting: 8 Bonacic, Sampson and Volker. 9 Ayes, 38. Nays, 19. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 11 bill is passed. 12 The Secretary will read. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1428, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 5532A, 15 an act to amend the Penal Law. 16 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: 17 Explanation. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 19 you. 20 Senator Wright for an explanation, 21 please. 22 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, Madam 23 President. 24 The bill amends the Penal Law in 25 relation to making persons 14 and 15 years of

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(518) 371-8910 1 age criminally responsible for acts 2 constituting cemetery desecration in the first 3 degree. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 5 you. 6 Senator Krueger. 7 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Will the 8 sponsor please yield for a question. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 10 you. 11 Senator Wright, do you yield? 12 SENATOR WRIGHT: I will. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 14 you. 15 The Senator yields. 16 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 17 What is the penalty for cemetery 18 desecration in the first degree under criminal 19 law? 20 SENATOR WRIGHT: Currently it is 21 1 1/3 to 4 years. 22 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 23 Madam President. On the bill. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 25 you.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Krueger on the bill. 2 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 3 Without needing to explain why, of 4 course, I strongly disapprove of anyone 5 desecrating a cemetery, I do believe that 6 passing a law that could potentially mean 14- 7 and 15-year-olds who do wrong, no argument 8 there, go to jail under an E felony for up to 9 4 years is too extreme a penalty and too big a 10 leap to make in our criminal code. 11 So on the argument that we 12 shouldn't be sending 14- and 15-year-olds to 13 jail for up to 4 years -- even if there's no 14 question that there should be penalties for 15 desecrating cemeteries, and none of us would 16 ever imagine supporting such a horrendous act 17 by people of any age, but I do think that this 18 is going too far and cannot support E felonies 19 for 14- and 15-year-olds, with jail time. 20 Thank you, Madam President. I'll 21 be voting no and hope my colleagues will join 22 me. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 24 you. 25 Is there any other Senator who

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(518) 371-8910 1 wishes to speak on the bill? 2 The debate is closed. 3 The Secretary will ring the bell. 4 Read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect on the first of 7 November. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 12 Montgomery, to explain her vote. 13 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, thank 14 you, Madam President. 15 I am voting no on this legislation. 16 I just think that we could find other ways to 17 deal with teenagers who are 14 and 15 -- 18 they're practically preteens, for goodness' 19 sake. They're youth. Yes, they do foolish 20 things. They may go into a cemetery and think 21 that they're having fun and topple over some 22 gravestones and whatever. But we should have 23 some restitution for them, rather than giving 24 them -- charging them with an E felony and 25 making them criminals, as if they were a

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(518) 371-8910 1 threat to society. 2 So I'm voting no on this, and I 3 hope my colleagues will reject this idea that 4 we should make criminals out of 13 and 14 -- 5 or 14- and 15-year-olds who find themselves in 6 a cemetery having fun. 7 Thank you. Bye-bye. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 9 you. 10 Senator Montgomery will be recorded 11 in the negative. 12 The Secretary will announce the 13 results. 14 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 15 the negative on Calendar Number 1428 are 16 Senators Dilan, Duane, Hassell-Thompson, 17 L. Krueger, Montgomery, Oppenheimer, Paterson, 18 and A. Smith. 19 Those Senators absent from voting: 20 Bonacic, Maziarz, Sampson and Volker. 21 Ayes, 48. Nays, 8. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 23 bill is passed. 24 The Secretary will read. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number

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(518) 371-8910 1 1602, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 5620, 2 an act to amend the Real Property Tax Law. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 4 Krueger. 5 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Could I ask 6 the sponsor a question while waiving 7 explanation? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Yes. 9 Senator Padavan, do you yield for a 10 question? 11 SENATOR PADAVAN: You want an 12 explanation, or you want to ask me a question? 13 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: No, I was 14 going to ask you questions without the 15 explanation. 16 SENATOR PADAVAN: Okay, sure. Go 17 ahead. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Okay, 19 the Senator yields. 20 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 21 Madam President. 22 This bill provides a tax reduction, 23 a property tax reduction for Class 2 24 properties under 10 units. And in the memo it 25 talks about having specific advantages for

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(518) 371-8910 1 renters. But this is all Class 2, so this 2 would be coop, condo, and rental buildings? 3 SENATOR PADAVAN: Under Section 4 1805 of the Real Property Tax Law, Category 2, 5 that's all. The class of occupancy. 6 Residences under 10 units or less. 7 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 8 Madam President, on the bill. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 10 you. 11 Senator Krueger, on the bill. 12 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 13 Well, the bill is a dilemma for me 14 because I recognize that it would be helpful 15 for some residences in New York City, some 16 owners of small buildings, some coop/condo 17 joint owners of small buildings. And I 18 recognize that the City of New York -- 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 20 DeFrancisco. 21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I would 22 request, in view of the gentlemanly way that 23 Senator Padavan treated you, that you would 24 waive explanation. 25 (Laughter.)

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Madam 2 President, to continue, since I've been 3 labeled Senator No Fun, I'm afraid, Senator 4 DeFrancisco, I have to explain a little bit 5 about my position. But for the record, I did 6 skip the last bill -- the bill before that. 7 So the dilemma, without spending 8 too much time explaining, is that we have some 9 fundamental problems with the property tax 10 system in New York City. And I think that 11 perhaps the sponsor would agree with me that 12 there are serious inequities and imbalances in 13 our tax policies for Classes 1, 2, 3, and 4. 14 And in fact the record shows that 15 since 1981, when the State of New York 16 overrode a proposal by Governor Carey that 17 would have resolved many of the inequities in 18 the property tax system in New York City -- 19 and in fact, it was the Senate that overrode 20 the Governor's veto of a bill and then chose 21 to not move forward with proposals that I 22 think would significantly help to deal with 23 equity in property taxes in New York City -- 24 that we have been struggling in a piecemeal 25 way to try to deal with the problems of our

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(518) 371-8910 1 tax policy. 2 So that we have inequities in our 3 assessments in the ways that we tax Class 1 to 4 3 family homes versus Class 2 units. Class 1 5 units, in fact, pay disproportionately less in 6 taxes than other property tax owners in 7 New York City. 8 My problem is I wish that we were 9 doing a full evaluation of the property tax 10 inequities in New York City and that we were 11 not potentially, through this Band-Aid 12 solution for one subuniverse of Class 2 13 properties with under 10 units -- rather than 14 doing a Band-Aid that may help them but may 15 increase inequity across the entire property 16 tax system in New York City, that we were not 17 either asking the City of New York to meet 18 their obligations to this Legislature to 19 propose alternatives for themselves or, as a 20 Legislature, deal with the bigger problems. 21 So I will support the bill, and I 22 appreciate Senator Padavan's desire to offer 23 some tax relief to a certain subuniverse of 24 property renters and owners in the City of 25 New York. I would argue that one more

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(518) 371-8910 1 Band-Aid solution after over 20 years of not 2 dealing with the bigger problem will not 3 actually result in solving the problem for our 4 city of inequity in our property tax policies. 5 Thank you, Madam President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 7 you, Senator. 8 Is there any other Senator wishing 9 to be heard? 10 The debate is closed. 11 The Secretary will ring the bell. 12 Read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 19 Calendar Number 1602: Ayes, 56. Nays, 0. 20 Those Senators absent from voting: 21 Senators Bonacic, Gonzalez, Sampson and 22 Volker. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 24 bill is passed. 25 The Secretary will read.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1615, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 4737B, 3 an act to amend the Public Officers Law. 4 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Explanation. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 6 Maltese, for an explanation. 7 SENATOR MALTESE: Madam 8 President, this bill would amend the Public 9 Officers Law to allow the hiring and continued 10 employment by municipalities of members of the 11 auto trades who reside in a New York county 12 that is contiguous with the employing 13 municipality. 14 The provisions allowing residence 15 in a contiguous county are modeled after the 16 existing provisions of the Public Officers Law 17 allowing members of a municipal sanitation 18 department to reside in a contiguous county. 19 The same standards should apply to the skilled 20 tradespersons employed in the auto trades who 21 also find the costs of housing in certain 22 other counties prohibitive and want the 23 opportunity to raise their children in a less 24 dense environment. 25 This bill would simply give members

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(518) 371-8910 1 of the auto trades the same opportunity as 2 members of the sanitation department have 3 according to the Public Officers Law. 4 This bill would apply to New York 5 City automotive mechanics who are members of 6 Local 246. This concerns approximately 1,505 7 members and has been done at their request. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 9 you. 10 Senator Montgomery. 11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, thank 12 you, Madam President. I will just speak on 13 this bill. 14 This is one of several pieces of 15 legislation that we've debated this session, 16 and it continues to come up. Eventually there 17 will be no one who will be living in the city 18 and paying taxes as citizens of our city. 19 They will all be living in contiguous and 20 noncontiguous counties. 21 And certainly we need to have the 22 strength of people who work in the city also 23 living in the city. And I note that the 24 Senator's memo uses the excuse that, well, 25 they can't afford housing in the city. Well,

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(518) 371-8910 1 I don't think the housing in the city is any 2 less affordable than housing in Westchester 3 County and the other contiguous counties. So 4 I don't buy that excuse. 5 And certainly this particular 6 category of civil service employees have no 7 excuse for not living in the city, except that 8 they choose to become suburbanites. Which is 9 fine. I have no problem with that, no 10 objections. But if they do, then they should 11 be prepared to work as suburbanites. 12 So -- and of course the members of 13 the Black, Puerto Rican, Hispanic and Asian 14 Caucus have voted against this, because we 15 view this as an impediment to being able to 16 employ people who live in the city. And we 17 would like to see, among other legislators who 18 also agree with this -- this is not just that 19 group, but other groups of legislators 20 agree -- that employees who are paid by the 21 city, municipal employees, uniformed employees 22 in particular, but others as well, should live 23 in the city. 24 So, Madam President, I vote no. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank

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(518) 371-8910 1 you. 2 Senator Savino. 3 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you, Madam 4 President. 5 Again, I have to disagree with my 6 colleagues. And as I've said before, it 7 always pains me when I have to do that. 8 But just to be consistent, this is 9 a similar situation to the bill that we passed 10 two weeks ago for sanitation workers and again 11 last week with respect to the fire alarm 12 dispatchers. It's the same situation. 13 New York City employees are subject 14 to the residency requirement as a result of a 15 deal that was brokered in the 1970s to prevent 16 middle-class flight from the city at a time 17 when it was a serious problem. That is no 18 longer the case. The city -- many of the 19 neighborhoods that city employees live in and 20 work in, they can no longer afford to purchase 21 a home in. That is a reality. Every one of 22 us knows that. 23 So we're just beginning to extend 24 to city employees who have -- who have stayed 25 in the city over the years, and they've

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(518) 371-8910 1 contributed to the city -- and remember, five 2 years ago or six years ago, I think it was six 3 years ago when the members of the Legislature 4 repealed the commuter tax for people who live 5 outside of New York City but work there, there 6 was only one group of people that were 7 exempted from that repeal. That was the City 8 of New York's employees. They are required to 9 3 percent out of their salary under Section 10 1127 of New York State's tax code. So there 11 is no loss of tax revenue when city employees 12 move outside the City of New York. 13 And finally, one thing that I may 14 not have mentioned when I spoke about this in 15 the past is that many city employees live in 16 rent-stabilized and rent-controlled 17 apartments, and they also live in public 18 housing. And since the City of New York has 19 not contributed or built affordable housing as 20 we lament, often, or low-income housing, 21 moving some of those people out of that stock 22 of housing would free it up for many of the 23 members of the working poor who are living in 24 substandard housing. 25 So again, I will ask my colleagues

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(518) 371-8910 1 to take that into consideration and recognize 2 that New York City's employees have already, 3 already met the burden, and it's time to allow 4 them to move out of the city when they can -- 5 and not everybody is going to go, but when 6 they can, so that they can have that little 7 patch of land that Senator Oppenheimer 8 referred to in the past where they can have a 9 garden and they can raise their children 10 outside of the city. 11 Thank you. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 13 you, Senator Savino. 14 Is there any other Senator wishing 15 to be heard? 16 The debate is closed. 17 The Secretary will ring the bell. 18 Read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 25 Maltese, to explain his vote.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR MALTESE: Madam 2 President, just a brief word. 3 I believe in this great country of 4 ours, in this great state of ours, in this 5 great city of ours a person should be able to 6 live where they want in order to carry out 7 their living. I do not view living in 8 New York City as a punishment, I regard it as 9 a pleasure and something that we do 10 voluntarily. 11 I vote aye. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 13 you. 14 Senator Maltese recorded in the 15 affirmative. 16 The Secretary will announce the 17 results. 18 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 19 the negative on Calendar Number 1615 are 20 Senators Brown, Diaz, Dilan, Duane, Gonzalez, 21 Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, Montgomery, 22 Parker, Paterson, Serrano and A. Smith. 23 Those Senators absent from voting: 24 Bonacic, Sampson and Volker. 25 Ayes, 45. Nays, 12.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 2 bill is passed. 3 The Secretary will read. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1626, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5655A, an 6 act to amend the Tax Law. 7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: 8 Explanation. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 10 you. 11 Senator Spano, for an explanation. 12 SENATOR SPANO: Madam President, 13 the purpose of this bill is to direct a 14 portion of the video lottery terminal money 15 that is generated at Yonkers Raceway to be -- 16 that's generated at the track to be given to 17 the educational system of Yonkers. 18 It would require an additional 19 4 percent of the marketing allowance of 20 Yonkers Raceway would be directed to the 21 Yonkers Board of Education. We expect that it 22 will generate somewhere in the area of some 23 close to $10 million annually to the city when 24 VLTs are fully implemented at the track. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Stachowski. 2 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 3 President, would the sponsor yield for a 4 question. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 6 Spano, do you yield? 7 SENATOR SPANO: Yes. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 9 sponsor yields. 10 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I know that 11 we supported an amendment similar to this in 12 nature, so I'm prepared to vote for this. I 13 just had a question on it. 14 I know that Yonkers has very little 15 racing. I know they're still racing but they 16 have cut back on the number of days they're 17 racing. With VLTs finally coming in, are they 18 planning on increasing the number of days that 19 they're going to race? 20 SENATOR SPANO: The track is 21 shutting down for a short period of time in 22 order to go through rehabilitation to build 23 out for the VLTs. Once they are implemented, 24 we fully anticipate the track to expand their 25 racing days, because there will be a lot more

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(518) 371-8910 1 competition, we'll have more horses. 2 And over the last several months 3 we've seen days and weeks where the track was 4 down as a result of not having enough horses 5 to race. We expect, once the VLTs are 6 implemented, we're going to see that 7 enthusiasm at Yonkers Raceway, and the result 8 will be additional racing days. 9 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Thank you. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 11 Sabini. 12 SENATOR SABINI: Thank you, Mr. 13 President. If the sponsor would yield. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 15 Spano, do you yield? 16 SENATOR SPANO: Yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 18 sponsor yields. 19 SENATOR SABINI: I was just 20 wondering if the sponsor could tell the body 21 why the bill is restricted to only one VLT 22 site in the state when we have one going into 23 Aqueduct and we have other VLT sites around 24 the state -- Saratoga Raceway, Buffalo, and a 25 few others coming online.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SPANO: We had a -- I had 2 a bill previously that would share money with 3 the host communities of any communities that 4 had a racetrack with VLTs within their 5 boundaries. It was clear that the Assembly 6 showed no interest at all in passing that 7 measure, although I think there was 8 overwhelming support here in this house for 9 it. 10 As a result, we said let's try to 11 narrow the bill a bit to help a city that has 12 some severe financial issues, with our 13 proximity to the City of New York, where we 14 are hurt as a result of the school aid 15 formula. We are hurt because we're a unique 16 city, being the only city to be under 17 federal-court-ordered integration. And the 18 final year of that funding for that 19 integration suit is up next year, and we fall 20 over the cliff by the amount of some 21 $40 million. 22 So I think it's important for us to 23 support the City of Yonkers in this measure, 24 and I think it would be overwhelmingly 25 successful and hope to expand that bill to

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(518) 371-8910 1 other host communities across the state. 2 SENATOR SABINI: Mr. President, 3 on the bill. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 5 Sabini, on the bill. 6 SENATOR SABINI: While the 7 sponsor knows that the Yonkers school system 8 is in trouble, I would submit that the 9 New York City school system has been 10 documented by several courts now as being a 11 system that's underfunded. And this would not 12 direct any revenue from that facility in 13 Aqueduct to the New York City school system. 14 I'm a little torn on this bill, but 15 I'm not sure that it's the best of public 16 policies with regard to Yonkers, not having 17 enough horses to run now. With the -- 18 hopefully the passage of Senator Padavan's 19 bill, there will be enough horses around for 20 everyone, and they won't be other places, 21 they'll be at the racetrack where they belong. 22 I intend to vote no. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any 24 other Senator wish to be heard on the bill? 25 Debate is closed, then.

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(518) 371-8910 1 The Secretary will ring the bell. 2 Read the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect July 1, 2006. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 9 Klein, to explain his vote. 10 SENATOR KLEIN: Thank you, Mr. 11 President. 12 I rise in support of this 13 legislation, mainly because it's almost 14 identical to an amendment that I tried to pass 15 in March of this very year. I said at the 16 time that we should be using our VLT monies to 17 benefit our schoolchildren. 18 And schoolchildren, especially in 19 Yonkers, certainly need a quick infusion of 20 cash. There's presently a $46 million deficit 21 in the education system in the City of 22 Yonkers. And I think this is a wonderful 23 opportunity to not only get them the money 24 they need now to continue to educate our young 25 people, but at the same time it's also a

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(518) 371-8910 1 wonderful opportunity, I think, to 2 rehabilitate and bring back Yonkers Raceway. 3 There was a time when Yonkers Raceway used to 4 have over 40,000, 45,000 people in an evening. 5 That's clearly not the case now. 6 But when I did introduce my 7 amendment back in March, I still believe today 8 it's still important not only to help Yonkers, 9 but all of the host tracks. Clearly, even if 10 you have a racetrack in Saratoga and you may 11 not need that quick infusion of cash or any 12 more cash for education, you still are 13 providing more police service, more sanitation 14 service. So I think it's very, very important 15 that we do have those additional monies for 16 the host racinos, so to speak. 17 So again, I commend Mr. Spano for 18 putting in this important legislation. I hope 19 it passes the Assembly as well, because I 20 think this is a wonderful opportunity to help 21 the schoolkids of Yonkers and also the 22 racetrack in Yonkers Raceway, which happens to 23 be in my district. 24 I vote yes on this legislation. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Klein will be recorded in the affirmative. 2 The Secretary will announce the 3 results. 4 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 5 the negative on Calendar Number 1626 are 6 Senators Breslin, Duane, L. Krueger, Padavan, 7 Parker, Sabini, Savino, Schneiderman, Serrano, 8 A. Smith and Stavisky. 9 Those Senators absent from voting: 10 Bonacic, Sampson and Volker. 11 Ayes, 46. Nays, 11. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1627, by Senator Little, Senate Print 5664, an 16 act to amend Chapter 444 of the Laws of 1997. 17 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: 18 Explanation. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 20 Little, Senator Liz Krueger has requested an 21 explanation. 22 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you, Mr. 23 President. 24 This bill extends provisions of law 25 relating to IDAs, industrial development

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(518) 371-8910 1 authorities, until July 1, 2008. It is a 2 straight three-year extender. 3 The industrial development 4 agencies' authority to finance not-for-profit 5 projects will sunset unless they are extended 6 by this Legislature. Authority to finance 7 not-for-profit civic-facilities projects was 8 first given to IDAs in 1987. Subsequently the 9 law was extended in 1993, 1997, 1999, 2002. 10 This bill proposes to extend the bill this 11 year until July 1st of 2008. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 13 Krueger. 14 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 15 Mr. President. On the bill. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 17 Krueger, on the bill. 18 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 19 Well, there's been a lot of 20 proposals floating around around IDAs, and I 21 have to say it's very disappointing that we 22 have a proposal to have a straight extender 23 for three years when I think most of us in 24 this house know that there are serious 25 problems with the way the IDA system is run in

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(518) 371-8910 1 this state. 2 There have been any number of 3 newspaper exposes about out-and-out scandals 4 or serious questions of conflicts of interest 5 with IDAs around the state. There have 6 reports done by the State Comptroller's office 7 around problems with the IDAs. 8 Some of us were hoping we would 9 negotiate reforms for IDAs this year. We 10 haven't. Then we thought perhaps we'd have a 11 short-term extender, giving both houses more 12 opportunity to make the needed changes and to 13 come to an agreement. But I have to say I 14 don't think anyone thought doing a straight 15 extender for another 36 months was in the best 16 interests of the state. 17 So for the record, despite the fact 18 that I think clearly that is what this house 19 will pass today, we should not be doing a 20 straight extender of IDAs. We have a lot of 21 cleaning up to do. And while we do a straight 22 extender, we have more problems erupting 23 around the state from allowing these public 24 authorities, with the most minimal oversight 25 by the Legislature or by any state agency,

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(518) 371-8910 1 continue to be allowed to give tax exemptions, 2 PILOTs, compete with each other for businesses 3 from one county to another, overlap various 4 tax exemptions and credits with Empire Zones 5 and brownfields and anything else imaginable, 6 so that certain businesses appear to avoid 7 paying any taxes to the State of New York and 8 get to ride roughshod over local interests and 9 local land-use policies. 10 Just to highlight from the Post 11 Standard, problems with consultant services in 12 the billing used in the Destiny USA project 13 and their role in relationship to several IDAs 14 in that area. Scandals from the New York 15 Times involving funding to campaign donors 16 through Nassau County and IDAs there. 17 Comptroller's Report on Industrial Development 18 Agencies Project Evaluation Criteria and 19 Monitoring Efforts, highlighting distinct 20 problems in both the decision-making process, 21 the steps to be followed, whether or not jobs 22 were created, project performance, the fact 23 that there were no penalties or sanctions when 24 businesses in agreements with IDAs failed to 25 meet their obligations, no standard policies

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(518) 371-8910 1 or procedures for monitoring for projects, for 2 bringing the public in to review proposals by 3 the IDAs before decisions are made. 4 These are not new problems for any 5 of us. They have been fully documented. 6 There's probably not an IDA that hasn't had 7 some newspaper stories at the local level 8 questioning what was going on. I've got piles 9 of them here. And in respect to Senator 10 DeFrancisco, I won't read them all. 11 But the fact is that we know what 12 we should be doing rather than a three-year 13 extension for industrial development agencies. 14 Some of us aren't sure we think we should have 15 them at all. But if we are going to have 16 them, we need to ensure that we've got broader 17 oversight and coordination of their programs 18 and activities, that we've got ongoing 19 reporting of the impact on communities and 20 what is happening in relationship to the 21 changes made or the programs -- projects taken 22 on by IDAs. Basic standards that are mandated 23 for IDAs and their projects at the state 24 level. Actual reporting requirements that 25 measure, on an annual basis, how many jobs are

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(518) 371-8910 1 created or retained in relationship to the 2 payments in lieu of taxes, tax credits or 3 exemptions at the county or local level. 4 Overlap between IDA deals and Empire Zone 5 deals and brownfield deals requiring 6 enforceable claw-back penalties. Having 7 public hearings in a timely manner prior to 8 decisions being made with no necessity for the 9 public to ask -- to have to file FOIA requests 10 to get the proposals, only to not even learn 11 of the information before the board members of 12 the IDA have voted. Requiring a standard of 13 transparency in how IDAs are run that we 14 haven't even started to explore. Establishing 15 meaningful penalties for IDAs that violate 16 state and local laws. 17 Again, the list is -- I could go on 18 for an extended period of time on exactly what 19 we ought to be doing. And yet with a 20 three-year extender I will hazard to guess 21 that this Legislature may choose to simply 22 ignore any of these problems or any of the 23 proposed fixes we could be making for another 24 36 months. 25 So I am very disappointed that in

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(518) 371-8910 1 the last few days of session, rather than 2 taking on a very important change in the laws 3 that we all recognize we should be addressing, 4 we are proposing to punt the problem for 5 another 36 months. 6 And I hazard to guess that the next 7 time, if it does take another three years 8 before we revisit these issues, that the next 9 time we're asked to consider changes in IDA 10 law, the memos in my file of scandals and 11 problems and failures of IDAs around the state 12 will be a much thicker file, and we will have 13 only ourselves to blame for not addressing the 14 issue now as the bill is sunsetting. 15 I urge us to vote against this bill 16 and move forward with, if at minimum we can't 17 make the reforms we ought to in both houses, a 18 much shorter extension, perhaps six to eight 19 months rather than 36 months. 20 Thank you, Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 22 Little. 23 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you, Mr. 24 President. 25 For the record, and in response to

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(518) 371-8910 1 the previous speaker's comments, I would like 2 to say that this is one of three bills that I 3 have proposed on the IDAs. Our first bill was 4 a Senate bill that would make some changes to 5 the IDA laws and regulations and would also 6 extend this provision for the financing of 7 not-for-profits. 8 However, after several meetings 9 with my staff, the Senate staff, Assemblyman 10 Sweeney's staff from the Assembly, we came up 11 with another bill trying to incorporate some 12 ideas for reform that the Assembly has, some 13 ideas that the Senate had, and also to ensure 14 the organizations in need of IDA funding would 15 be able to get them. 16 We have been able to come to 17 absolutely no agreement on the bill. And up 18 until 10 o'clock last night, there were still 19 meetings trying to come to an agreed-upon bill 20 between the two houses. We were unable to do 21 that. 22 And in response to being unable to 23 do that, we propose a three-year extender. 24 And I would emphasize the need for a lengthy 25 period of an extension rather than a monthly

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(518) 371-8910 1 extension or a six-to-nine-month extension, 2 because many projects are on the table or go 3 on the table, so therefore they would not be 4 able to rely upon the IDA funding that was 5 necessary for them. 6 Extending this is important to many 7 hospitals, to many developmental disability 8 projects, many of them nonprofit projects that 9 could be funded through IDA bonds by extending 10 this bill. And therefore, we propose this 11 extension. 12 And there is absolutely nothing 13 that prevents either body from continuing to 14 work on the reforms in the meantime. 15 Thank you. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 17 Brown. 18 SENATOR BROWN: Thank you, Mr. 19 President. 20 I certainly understand what Senator 21 Little is saying with respect to experiencing 22 some difficulty in being able to work out some 23 kind of compromise on IDA legislation. 24 However, I too am disappointed that we are 25 simply extending the IDA law as opposed to

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(518) 371-8910 1 reforming the IDA law. 2 I want to bring to everybody's 3 attention a situation in my own county, in 4 Erie County, where it has been all too common 5 for businesses to be pirated from one section 6 of the community to another section of the 7 community. 8 In Buffalo, where I live, recently 9 there was a court case involving a neighboring 10 municipality where one business was given 11 inducements, given benefits to move from the 12 city of Buffalo to a neighboring municipality. 13 And in that lawsuit, it was found that that 14 was done improperly. But what ended up 15 happening is that the company, the 16 corporation, the developer that actually built 17 out the facility that the new business went 18 into, they ended up having to pay a penalty 19 and having to pay taxes to the municipality 20 that really was responsible for pirating this 21 business from one municipality to the other 22 municipality. And it seems like there should 23 have been a penalty for the municipality. 24 So really the anti-piracy 25 provisions in this legislation should be

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(518) 371-8910 1 strengthened, should be reformed. That's one 2 issue that we're not dealing with through this 3 extension. And that is one of the major 4 reasons why I will be voting no for this piece 5 of legislation. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 7 Schneiderman. 8 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 9 Mr. President. Very briefly on the bill. 10 I strongly concur with the views 11 expressed by my colleagues earlier, Senator 12 Krueger and Senator Brown. We are voting to 13 extend a program that is so problematic and so 14 riddled with problems that it doesn't even 15 come up to the level of other programs in this 16 state that many of us find to be problematic 17 in and of themselves. 18 The Empire Zone program includes a 19 provision that makes compliance with 20 environmental, worker safety and other public 21 interest laws a condition for receiving and 22 maintaining certification. There's no similar 23 requirement for IDAs. 24 We have in New York State a serious 25 problem that we're going to be addressing one

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(518) 371-8910 1 way or the other, and IDAs are emblematic of 2 the problem. The problem is this. Our tax 3 code -- and people on the other side of the 4 aisle love to complain about high taxes. We 5 have the worst of both worlds. We have high 6 marginal tax rates, but our tax code is so 7 riddled with loopholes, exceptions, tax 8 giveaways and expenditures that we actually 9 generate very little revenue for all these 10 high marginal rates. 11 We're approaching a situation where 12 we have two types of businesses in New York 13 State. If you are not on the public dole 14 through some IDA program, Empire Zone program 15 or specific loophole crafted for you by clever 16 lobbyists, you are in a business that's 17 subsidizing all those other businesses. 18 This is not a situation where you 19 can give tax breaks to half the businesses in 20 the state and pretend it doesn't affect the 21 other half of the businesses. So I also am 22 going to vote against this. I think it is 23 really an abrogation of our duty to give this 24 long of an extension for a program that costs 25 the taxpayers of this state hundreds of

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(518) 371-8910 1 millions of dollars, if not billions of 2 dollars, without reforming it, without 3 ensuring simple things -- like businesses that 4 violate the law aren't receiving benefits. 5 That's not in the IDA law. 6 So what we've got here is a 7 situation where the refusal to agree, for 8 whatever reason, whatever motivation, has the 9 effect of providing some very, very 10 politically connected businesses with a 11 benefit that then results in them being 12 subsidized by all the other businesses, 13 particularly small businesses, in the state 14 that do not have those connections. 15 So I'll be voting no. And I know 16 we'll be dealing with this issue of tax 17 expenditures as we go forward. This is just 18 an unfortunate example of our inability to get 19 some very basic reforms done before the end of 20 this year's session. 21 Thank you, Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any 23 other Senator wish to be heard on the bill? 24 Debate is closed, then. 25 The Secretary will ring the bell.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Read the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 8 Stachowski, to explain his vote. 9 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Mr. 10 President, to explain my vote. 11 I'm reluctantly going to vote for 12 this measure, because I don't want to see 13 legitimate projects that are important to 14 not-for-profits -- i.e., hospitals and some 15 important groups in our areas that have IDAs 16 that maybe are building or planning to build 17 and not being able to do that project and hurt 18 the community that way. 19 However, I would hope that Senator 20 Little and the Assembly cochair of this area 21 would get back together and still do something 22 in the area of reform, because the 23 anti-pirating thing is a joke. I mean, 24 consistently one particular IDA in our area 25 goes to court -- not on every project; they

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(518) 371-8910 1 could be there all the time if they had all 2 the insurance companies that they took out of 3 different communities and built tax-free 4 buildings in their community and moved out all 5 insurance companies up there. There's a lot 6 of vacant office space in Buffalo due to that, 7 but not everybody sues. Every time they do 8 sue, they win. 9 The trouble is when they win, the 10 fine is miniscule and the company is still in 11 the community that they went to. That happens 12 to Buffalo, it happens to the older suburbs. 13 And it's not what IDAs are supposed to do. 14 So the fact is I'm going to vote 15 for this measure, but I wish that they would 16 continue to work to try to get some of these 17 reform measures to do a little bit better 18 oversight and make IDAs do what they're 19 supposed to do, not move office buildings and 20 medical centers to IDA property at a tax-free 21 location. 22 I vote yes. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 24 Stachowski will be recorded in the 25 affirmative.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator DeFrancisco, to explain his 2 vote. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, I 4 agree with much of what Senator Stachowski and 5 Senator Krueger spoke about. The problem is 6 we've got to move this legislation to keep 7 projects going. 8 But it is very, very frustrating 9 when you see a project in my community that 10 has been talked about for four years, and 11 nothing happens. And now the county IDA is 12 literally considering expanding a project that 13 doesn't exist by taking 29 property owners' 14 property by eminent domain, and having a 15 meeting tomorrow night to discuss and to vote 16 upon a proposal by the developer which hasn't 17 been publicly disclosed despite prior 18 statements that they were going to disclose 19 it. When you've got 29 business owners, 20 active businesses paying taxes in the dark 21 about what's going to happen to their project. 22 Now, if we as a legislative body 23 did anything like that, I would suspect that 24 there would be a public outcry. But it's even 25 worse if it's an appointed group of people

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(518) 371-8910 1 basically making these decisions behind closed 2 doors with no disclosure and a decision that 3 seems to me absolutely out of line in view of 4 the past history with this particular project 5 developer. 6 So, you know, three years is a long 7 time. And if I had my druthers, I would hope 8 that we'd make it a shorter period. But there 9 has to be some reforms of this process. It is 10 getting out of control. And I'm just speaking 11 from my perspective from my community. 12 Thank you. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 14 DeFrancisco will be recorded in the 15 affirmative. 16 Senator Hassell-Thompson, to 17 explain her vote. 18 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank 19 you, Mr. President. 20 When IDAs were created, JDAs and 21 all of the other authorities, municipalities 22 needed ways in which to do certain projects 23 that the constitution didn't allow them to do. 24 But what I think we've done is we've created a 25 shadow government. And I know that IDAs have

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(518) 371-8910 1 done some good projects, there's no question 2 that they've done many good ones in my 3 district and in other districts around the 4 state. 5 But my concern comes when we 6 extend, without any language that calls for 7 reviews within that three-year period, that we 8 do an extension of this length. I am very 9 concerned that -- about the length of time, 10 which is why I'm voting no. 11 But my real concern is that we 12 continue to create authorities that later are 13 subject to their own authority. And so I have 14 real concerns about us extending something 15 that most of us are already very uncomfortable 16 with. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 18 Hassell-Thompson will be recorded in the 19 negative. 20 Senator Brown, to explain his vote. 21 SENATOR BROWN: Thank you, Mr. 22 President, to explain my vote. 23 I initially was going to vote no on 24 this piece of legislation, but Senator 25 Stachowski makes a very persuasive point, the

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(518) 371-8910 1 same point that Senator Little made. While I 2 am concerned that we are not performing the 3 necessary reforms to IDA legislation, there 4 are many projects in my community and across 5 the state that are going to require these 6 benefits. So for that reason, I will vote for 7 this piece of legislation. 8 However, I do think that we are 9 extending it for too long a period of time. I 10 think this is a process that is crying out for 11 reform. And I hope that we move to accomplish 12 that reform sooner rather than later. 13 I vote yes. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 15 Brown will be recorded in the affirmative. 16 The Secretary will announce the 17 results. 18 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 19 the negative on Calendar Number 1627 are 20 Senators Connor, Diaz, Dilan, Duane, 21 Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, Maziarz, 22 Montgomery, Parker, Sabini, Savino, 23 Schneiderman, Serrano, A. Smith and Stavisky. 24 Absent from voting: Senator 25 Bonacic.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Ayes, 44. Nays, 15. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 3 is passed. 4 Senator Fuschillo, that completes 5 the controversial reading of the calendar. 6 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. 7 President, there will be a meeting of the 8 Rules Committee in the Majority Conference 9 Room at 4:20. 10 The Senate will stand at ease. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There 12 will be a meeting of the Rules Committee in 13 the Majority Conference Room at 4:20. 14 The Senate will stand at ease. 15 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 16 ease at 4:06 p.m.) 17 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened 18 at 4:40 p.m.) 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 20 Fuschillo. 21 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. 22 President, please return to reports of 23 standing committees. I believe there's a 24 report of the Rules Committee at the desk. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Reports

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(518) 371-8910 1 of standing committees. 2 The Secretary will read the report 3 of the Rules Committee. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 5 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 6 following bills: 7 Senate Print 5819, by Senator 8 Flanagan, an act to amend the Election Law; 9 5820, by Senator Flanagan, an act 10 to amend the Election Law; 11 5822, by Senator Flanagan, an act 12 to amend the Election Law; 13 1405, by Senator Seward, an act to 14 amend the Insurance Law; 15 1473, by Senator LaValle, an act 16 authorizing the Town of East Hampton; 17 1870A, by Senator Maltese, an act 18 to amend the Civil Rights Law; 19 1894A, by Senator Robach, an act to 20 amend the State Finance Law; 21 1925A, by Senator Balboni, an act 22 to amend the Insurance Law; 23 1939, by Senator Golden, an act to 24 amend the Tax Law; 25 2206, by Senator Padavan, an act to

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(518) 371-8910 1 amend the Penal Law and others; 2 2516A, by Senator Maltese, an act 3 to amend the General Municipal Law; 4 2707C, by Senator Skelos, an act to 5 amend the Public Health Law; 6 2709, by Senator DeFrancisco, an 7 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law; 8 2795B, by Senator Flanagan, an act 9 to amend the Correction Law; 10 3484, by Senator Padavan, an act to 11 amend the Administrative Code of the City of 12 New York; 13 3489A, by Senator Padavan, an act 14 to amend the Real Property Law; 15 4059, by Senator Libous, an act to 16 amend the Public Authorities Law; 17 4332A, by Senator LaValle, an act 18 in relation to granting; 19 4371A, by Senator Hannon, an act to 20 amend the Public Health Law and the Executive 21 Law; 22 4420, by Senator Wright, an act in 23 relation to providing; 24 4469A, by Senator Marcellino, an 25 act to amend the Environmental Conservation

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(518) 371-8910 1 Law; 2 4585A, by Senator Leibell, an act 3 to amend the Public Service Law; 4 5086A, by Senator Hannon, an act to 5 amend the Public Health Law; 6 5238, by Senator Leibell, an act to 7 amend the Not-For-Profit Corporation Law; 8 5310, by Senator Spano, an act to 9 amend the Labor Law; 10 5646, by Senator Spano, an act to 11 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law; 12 5718, by Senator Young, an act to 13 amend the Social Services Law; 14 5725, by Senator Young, an act to 15 amend Chapter 263 of the Laws of 1981; 16 5739, by the Senate Committee on 17 Rules, an act to amend the Insurance Law; 18 5752, by Senator Meier, an act to 19 amend the Highway Law; 20 5757, by Senator Golden, an act to 21 amend the Social Services Law; 22 5773, by Senator Spano, an act to 23 amend the Labor Law; 24 688A, by Senator Maziarz, an act to 25 amend the Administrative Procedure Act;

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(518) 371-8910 1 785, by Senator Fuschillo, an act 2 to amend the Tax Law; 3 And Senate Print 1259A, by Senator 4 Sabini, an act to amend the Education Law. 5 All bills ordered direct to third 6 reading. 7 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Move to 8 accept the report of the Rules Committee. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: All 10 those in favor of accepting the report of the 11 Rules Committee signify by saying aye. 12 (Response of "Aye.") 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those 14 opposed, nay. 15 (No response.) 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 17 report of the Rules Committee is accepted. 18 Senator Fuschillo. 19 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. 20 President, may we please have the reading of 21 the noncontroversial Supplemental Calendar 22 59A. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 24 Senator, we have one substitution at the desk. 25 Could we take care of that first.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Please take 2 it up. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 4 Secretary will read the substitution. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno 6 moves to discharge, from the Committee on 7 Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8818 and 8 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 9 Number 5739, Third Reading Calendar 1664. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 11 Substitution ordered. 12 The Secretary will now conduct the 13 noncontroversial reading of the supplemental 14 calendar. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1636, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 5819, 17 an act to amend the Election Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 19 last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This 21 act shall take effect January 1, 2006. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 23 roll. 24 (The Secretary called the roll.) 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Dilan, to explain his vote. 2 SENATOR DILAN: I just rise to 3 explain my vote on this issue. 4 I just want to say that for the 5 past six months we've been working in the 6 conference committee on these bills. I think 7 we've made good progress. I think the bill 8 that's before us at this time is a good bill. 9 I ask my colleagues to support the bill. 10 I want to thank all those 11 individuals in the conference committee who 12 worked so hard to get to this point, and I 13 especially want to thank Senator Flanagan. 14 Thank you. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 16 Dilan will be recorded in the affirmative. 17 Announce the results. 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1637, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 5820, 23 an act to amend the Election Law. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 25 last section.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1638, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 5822, 11 an act to amend the Election Law. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 13 last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 17. This 15 act shall take effect on the 15th of November. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1639, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 1405 -- 24 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it 25 aside.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the 2 bill aside. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1640, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 1473, 5 an act authorizing the Town of East Hampton. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is 7 a home-rule message at the desk. 8 Read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1641, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 1870A, 19 an act to amend the Civil Rights Law and 20 others. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 22 last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 24 act shall take effect immediately. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the

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(518) 371-8910 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 5 is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1642, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 1894A, 8 an act to amend the State Finance Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 10 last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 12 act shall take effect on the 60th day. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 14 roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 18 is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 20 Calendar Number 1643, Senator Balboni moves to 21 discharge, from the Committee on Insurance, 22 Assembly Bill Number 4972A and substitute it 23 for the identical Senate Bill Number 1925A, 24 Third Reading Calendar 1643. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER:

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(518) 371-8910 1 Substitution ordered. 2 The Secretary will read. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1643, by Member of the Assembly Sweeney, 5 Assembly Print Number 4972A, an act to amend 6 the Insurance Law. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 8 last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 10 act shall take effect on the 120th day. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1645, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2206, 19 an act to amend the Penal Law and others. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 21 last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 10. This 23 act shall take effect on the first of 24 November. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the

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(518) 371-8910 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Please lay 4 it lay aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Withdraw 6 the roll call. 7 Lay the bill aside. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1646, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 2516A, 10 an act to amend the General Municipal Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is 12 a home-rule message at the desk. 13 Read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 17 roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 21 is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1647, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2707C, 24 an act to amend the Public Health Law. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the

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(518) 371-8910 1 last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 3 act shall take effect July 1, 2008. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 9 is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1648, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 12 2709, an act to amend the Criminal Procedure 13 Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 15 last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 23 is passed. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 1649, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 2795B,

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(518) 371-8910 1 an act to amend the Correction Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 3 last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 11 is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1650, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3484, 14 an act to amend the Administrative Code of the 15 City of New York. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 17 last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 19. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 25 is passed.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1651, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 3489A, 3 an act to amend the Real Property Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 5 last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1652, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 4059, an 16 act to amend the Public Authorities Law. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 18 last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill

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(518) 371-8910 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1653, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 4332A, 4 an act in relation to granting Susan A. Long. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is 6 a home-rule message at the desk. 7 Read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 17 Calendar Number 1655, Senator Wright moves to 18 discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 19 Assembly Bill Number 8545 and substitute it 20 for the identical Senate Bill Number 4420, 21 Third Reading Calendar 1655. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 23 Substitution ordered. 24 The Secretary will read. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number

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(518) 371-8910 1 1655, by Member of the Assembly Reilly, 2 Assembly Print Number 8545, an act in relation 3 to providing. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 5 last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1656, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 16 4469A, an act to amend the Environmental 17 Conservation Law. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 19 last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 10. This 21 act shall take effect on the 180th day. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 23 roll. 24 (The Secretary called the roll.) 25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 4 Calendar Number 1657, Senator Leibell moves to 5 discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 6 Assembly Bill Number 2103B and substitute it 7 for the identical Senate Bill Number 4585A, 8 Third Reading Calendar 1657. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 10 Substitution ordered. 11 The Secretary will read. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1657, by Member of the Assembly Brodsky, 14 Assembly Print Number 2103B, an act to amend 15 the Public Service Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 17 last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 19 act shall take effect on the 120th day. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 25 is passed.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 2 Calendar Number 1658, Senator Hannon moves to 3 discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 4 Assembly Bill Number 8698A and substitute it 5 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5086A, 6 Third Reading Calendar 1658. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 8 Substitution ordered. 9 The Secretary will read. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1658, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 12 Assembly Print Number 8698A, an act to amend 13 the Public Health Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 15 last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 23 is passed. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 1659, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5238,

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(518) 371-8910 1 an act to amend the Not-For-Profit Corporation 2 Law. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 4 last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 18. This 6 act shall take effect on the 180th day. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1660, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5310, an 15 act to amend the Labor Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 17 last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 21 roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 25 is passed.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 1661, by Senator Spano, Senate Print -- 3 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Lay it 4 aside. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the 6 bill aside. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 1663, by Senator Young, Senate Print 5725, an 9 act to amend Chapter 263 of the Laws of 1981. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 11 last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1665, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 5752, an 22 act to amend the Highway Law. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 24 last section. 25 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This

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(518) 371-8910 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 3 roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 7 is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 1666, by Senator Golden, Senate Print 5757, an 10 act to amend the Social Services Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 12 last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This 14 act shall take effect December 31, 2005. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 20 is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1667, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5773, an 23 act to amend the Labor Law. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 25 last section.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 2 act shall take effect on the 180th day. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1668, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 688A, 11 an act to amend the State Administrative 12 Procedure Act. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 14 last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect on the first of 17 November. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 23 is passed. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 1669, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 785,

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(518) 371-8910 1 an act to amend the Tax Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 3 last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 11 is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 13 Calendar Number 1670, Senator Sabini moves to 14 discharge, from the Committee on Higher 15 Education, Assembly Bill Number 7150 and 16 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 17 Number 1259A, Third Reading Calendar 1670. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 19 Substitution ordered. 20 The Secretary will read. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1670, by Member of the Assembly Espaillat, 23 Assembly Print Number 7150, an act to amend 24 the Education Law. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the

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(518) 371-8910 1 last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 9 is passed. 10 Senator Fuschillo. 11 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. 12 President, will you take up the reading of the 13 controversial calendar, starting with Calendar 14 Number 1639. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 16 Secretary will conduct the controversial 17 reading of the calendar. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1639, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 1405, an 20 act to amend the Insurance Law. 21 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: 22 Explanation. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 24 Seward, an explanation has been requested, 25 with regard to Calendar 1639, by Senator Liz

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(518) 371-8910 1 Krueger. 2 SENATOR SEWARD: Certainly, Mr. 3 President. 4 This legislation is designed to 5 address the serious problem that we have in 6 the State of New York with over 3 million 7 New Yorkers not having health insurance. And 8 this legislation provides a multiple approach 9 in strategy to reduce the number of uninsured 10 that we have in this state and to help people 11 afford health insurance. 12 It provides so by using the private 13 market, tax advantages and state subsidy of 14 the commercial market to bring health 15 insurance within the means of every single 16 New Yorker. It's market-driven, giving 17 consumers real choices, another option, so 18 that we can reduce the number of uninsured. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 20 Krueger. 21 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 22 Mr. President. If the sponsor would please 23 yield. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 25 Seward, do you yield for a question?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SEWARD: Certainly, Mr. 2 President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 4 sponsor yields. 5 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 6 Since my understanding is the 7 "freedom policies" would be a new model for 8 insurance in New York State, what current 9 coverage now mandated by New York State law 10 might be excluded under this new policy? 11 SENATOR SEWARD: Well, Mr. 12 President, this legislation before us does not 13 in itself exclude any coverages. 14 However, those individuals who 15 choose the -- this option, the "freedom 16 policy" option, would have the flexibility to 17 buy any coverage with any of the existing 18 mandates -- and more, for that matter. It 19 gives the consumer the choice to buy the type 20 of coverage that makes sense for them and that 21 they can afford. 22 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr. 23 President, if, through you, the sponsor will 24 continue to yield. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Seward, do you continue to yield? 2 SENATOR SEWARD: Certainly. 3 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: By 4 "consumer" in your previous answer did you 5 mean the recipient of the health insurance 6 policy or the employer? Who chooses? 7 SENATOR SEWARD: Well, Mr. 8 President, it would depend on who was actually 9 making the purchase of the health insurance. 10 The -- most of our health insurance is 11 employment-based. So under this option, it 12 would provide the flexibility for employers 13 and their employees to sit down with their 14 health plan and design a health insurance plan 15 that both the employer and the employee can 16 afford and meets the needs of the employees 17 and their families. 18 This does not take anything away 19 from existing health insurance policies. 20 People could -- people and businesses could 21 still choose to remain right where they are. 22 However, this provides an additional option. 23 And frankly, Mr. President, this is 24 aimed directly at those 3 million New Yorkers 25 who currently do not have any health

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(518) 371-8910 1 insurance. So the idea -- and this has been 2 the experience in other states that have gone 3 down this road, is that it tends to draw more 4 people into the health insurance market. 5 Those individuals and businesses who are 6 currently not in the health insurance market, 7 it gets them in, and that's better for 8 everyone. 9 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr. 10 President, if the sponsor would continue to 11 yield. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 13 Seward, do you continue to yield? 14 SENATOR SEWARD: Certainly. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 16 sponsor yields. 17 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 18 Your last answer implied that this 19 will be coverage for people not currently 20 insured. But does that mean if I already am 21 an employee of a company that provides me 22 health insurance that I get to stay with that 23 insurance? Or will my employer have the right 24 to drop whatever coverage they have for me and 25 go to this state-subsidized new "freedom

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(518) 371-8910 1 plan"? 2 SENATOR SEWARD: Well, Mr. 3 President, the only state subsidy involved 4 here is for small businesses, 50 or fewer, 5 that under this legislation, as well as our 6 Senate tax cut plan that we had passed earlier 7 in this house, would receive a 50 percent tax 8 credit. 9 But to answer your question 10 directly, Mr. President, it offers 11 flexibility. And what I mean by that is that 12 employers and employees would have the option 13 to stay right where they are. 14 However, employers working with 15 their employees could decide to opt into the 16 so-called freedom policies, which involve the 17 health savings accounts which have become 18 available because of the federal Medicare bill 19 passed -- I believe it was in December 2003. 20 And these are high-deductible policies. And 21 under this legislation, we incorporate these 22 health savings accounts with what we call 23 freedom policies to provide flexibility. No 24 one is required to go that route, but that's 25 another option for them.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr. 2 President, if the sponsor would continue to 3 yield. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 5 Seward, do you yield? 6 SENATOR SEWARD: Certainly, Mr. 7 President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 9 sponsor yields. 10 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 11 Each of these answers triggers another 12 question that I want to ask. 13 What would be the savings for a 14 person who opts into a new freedom account as 15 opposed to the current insurance that they 16 have as an employee of a small business? 17 SENATOR SEWARD: Well, Mr. 18 President, a lot would depend on the various 19 treatment options that are purchased as part 20 of the policy. But we estimate that the 21 health savings accounts with the 22 high-deductible policies, coupled with these 23 freedom accounts, we estimate about a 24 40 percent savings when it comes to their 25 health insurance costs.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 2 Mr. President, if the sponsor would 3 continue to yield. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 5 Seward, do you continue to yield? 6 SENATOR SEWARD: Certainly. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 8 sponsor yields. 9 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: You mention 10 that these are low-cost, high-deductible. 11 What's the high deductible? What does that 12 mean in your plan? 13 SENATOR SEWARD: Well, Mr. 14 President, this is dictated by the federal 15 legislation. This -- our particular bill 16 before us does not get into that. 17 But for the purposes of 18 information, these health savings accounts are 19 required to be high-deductible policies. The 20 minimum is $1,000 for an individual, $2,000 21 for a family. And that actually, under the 22 federal legislation, goes as high as a $5,000 23 deductible. 24 And I might add that preventive 25 services are exempt from the deductible. And

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(518) 371-8910 1 while these deductibles may seem very high, 2 this $1,000/$2,000 as a minimum, I would point 3 out that those that choose this option, if 4 they had that 40 percent savings when it comes 5 that their health insurance costs, then they 6 would have that pool of money -- the employer 7 and the employee, for that matter, would have 8 that pool of money to contribute to the health 9 savings account. 10 And those funds could be used to 11 take care of those expenses up to the 12 deductible level and also cover any expenses 13 that may not be covered under the particular 14 health insurance plan that they purchase. 15 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Through 16 you, Mr. President, if the sponsor would 17 continue to yield. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 19 Seward, do you continue to yield? 20 SENATOR SEWARD: Certainly. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 22 sponsor yields. 23 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: So as I 24 understood it, it could be $1,000 or $2,000 25 deductible, or even higher. There are choices

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(518) 371-8910 1 involved, including the freedom by the 2 insurers from having to cover certain benefits 3 that we mandate in other state insurance 4 plans. 5 So since I've been here in the 6 Legislature, we've required that health 7 insurance policies sold in New York State 8 cover mammograms, prescription contraceptives, 9 osteoporosis screening, cervical cancer 10 screening, prostate cancer, checkups and 11 immunizations for children. None of these 12 would be mandated under the freedom insurance 13 plans? 14 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President, 15 our legislation does not disrupt the mandates 16 that Senator Krueger mentions if people choose 17 to stay with those types of policies. 18 However, if they choose this option 19 that we're including in this legislation, then 20 they would have the flexibility, the 21 purchaser -- it's not the insurer making these 22 choices, it's the purchaser, the employer and 23 the employee -- then they would have the 24 flexibility to purchase and include in their 25 plan those treatments, many of which, very

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(518) 371-8910 1 worthy ones that you've mentioned, Senator 2 Krueger, they would have that flexibility to 3 certainly include those that were important to 4 them. 5 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr. 6 President, if the sponsor would yield for 7 another question. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator, 9 do you yield? 10 SENATOR SEWARD: Certainly. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 12 sponsor yields. 13 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 14 What's the estimated cost to the 15 state of this program, and where would that 16 money come from? 17 SENATOR SEWARD: Well, Mr. 18 President, in terms of the health savings 19 accounts -- and that part of the program is no 20 cost to the state. I mean, that's the 21 contractual arrangement in terms of purchasing 22 health insurance in the private market. 23 The tax credit portion for small 24 employers, the 50 percent tax credit, is a 25 phase-in over 10 years. And that grows,

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(518) 371-8910 1 according to the Department of Taxation and 2 Finance, in that tenth year out, to close to 3 $2 billion in terms of the tax credit. That 4 is the only so-called cost to the state. 5 But I would point out that we, as 6 part of our budget this year, have included in 7 our Health Care Reform Act, HCRA, a lot of 8 money is directed at this uninsured population 9 in terms of providing care in the pools that 10 go out to the hospitals that are caring for 11 this group that show up at the hospital. 12 So if we can use that money, 13 through this tax credit, to get more people to 14 purchase private health insurance, my gut 15 tells me that we will actually reduce those 16 costs on the other side. So I don't really 17 consider that tax credit as an expense to the 18 state. I think we're going to derive many 19 savings because more people will be in the 20 health insurance market. 21 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 22 Mr. President. On the bill. 23 I appreciate the sponsor's answers. 24 I could go on much longer, but I have reviewed 25 this legislation in the past, and we've even

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(518) 371-8910 1 debated it here in the past, so I will spend 2 some time explaining why I think this is a 3 mistake. 4 For one, to I suppose jump to the 5 cost issue, the sponsor's statement that this 6 could cost up to $2 billion in tax credits to 7 the State of New York is a real cost. When we 8 don't collect taxes we otherwise would, it's 9 the same thing as spending the money. 10 So from my perspective on 11 economics, money we don't have in revenue for 12 expenditures and money we don't collect 13 through tax credits is the same, almost 14 $2 billion. 15 Second, there's many questions 16 raised about whether we would cover any new 17 additional people in health insurance under 18 this plan, as opposed to watch New Yorkers 19 currently under health insurance losing their 20 right to the health insurance they have 21 through their current employers and being 22 switched into these high-deductible, low-cost, 23 limited-benefit health plans. 24 And a great concern that I think 25 all of us should have is that in the absence

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(518) 371-8910 1 of having mandated services under these 2 insurance plans, that the kinds of health care 3 benefits most of us expect would be covered by 4 health insurance -- certainly all of us in the 5 Legislature recognize we have with our health 6 insurance benefits as state employees -- would 7 disappear. 8 As I stated in one of my questions 9 to the sponsor, under this plan if an 10 insurance company -- and he said keeps -- he 11 said through choice, but it's not actually 12 consumer choice, it's the health insurance 13 company and the employer choice, not the 14 consumer of healthcare choice -- if they so 15 choose, that insurance won't cover women's 16 health. It won't cover men's health. It 17 might not cover child health. It might not 18 cover cancer treatments. It might not cover 19 almost anything we think of health insurance 20 supposedly being there for. 21 So the fact that we are proposing a 22 product without regulations on what kinds of 23 healthcare coverages have to be there I think 24 is a giant step in the wrong direction for the 25 State of New York, which has fought long and

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(518) 371-8910 1 hard to ensure that in this state when we have 2 health insurance we actually mandate that 3 fundamental, basic healthcare is paid for 4 through that health insurance. 5 So we have a program that will cost 6 us up to $2 billion that may not lead to any 7 additional New Yorkers being covered by health 8 insurance, but we may replace and substitute 9 weaker health insurance packages for the 10 current packages currently provided by 11 employers. 12 And I suppose most -- not most 13 disturbing, but additionally disturbing to me 14 is that this is a program modeled on a 15 low-cost but high-deductible healthcare 16 insurance model. And there was a recent 17 report put out by the Commonwealth Fund, which 18 I think is considered by most both nonpartisan 19 and the premier health policy think tank in 20 the country, or one of them. And their 21 analysis of high-deductible, low-cost health 22 insurance plans from around the country, or 23 what they call HDHPs, shows that while it is 24 an effective marketing strategy by insurance 25 companies, that there are serious problems for

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(518) 371-8910 1 the consumers. 2 Adults with a high deductible have 3 significantly greater difficulty accessing 4 care due to costs, compared to those with a 5 lower or no deductible -- again, the sponsor 6 talked about $1,000 or $2,000 deductibles. 7 Based on the Commonwealth study, 38 percent of 8 adults with deductibles of $1,000 or more 9 reported at least one of four cost-related 10 access problems: not filling prescriptions, 11 not getting needed specialist's care, skipping 12 recommended tests or follow-up, or having a 13 medical problem but not visiting a doctor or 14 clinic. By contrast, only 21 percent of 15 adults with no deductible report any of these 16 problems. 17 High-deductible plans are 18 particularly problematic for lower-income 19 Americans. A predicted 44 percent of people 20 with incomes below $35,000 and a deductible of 21 $500 or more -- and we're talking $1,000 or 22 $2,000 in this proposal -- experience 23 cost-related access problems. 24 People who are sick would have a 25 more difficult time obtaining needed care

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(518) 371-8910 1 under a high-deductible, low-cost plan. Among 2 adults with a deductible of $500 who rate 3 their healthcare as fair or poor who have a 4 chronic condition or disability, a predicted 5 45 percent have cost-related access problems. 6 Medical bill problems are more 7 common among those with higher deductibles. 8 Medical bill problems and medical debt are 9 greater among low-income adults with higher 10 deductibles. And for insured adults who are 11 ill, having higher deductibles would mean they 12 would be likely to have more difficulties 13 paying their medical bills and accumulating 14 medical debt. 15 This isn't the direction New York 16 State should be going. I agree completely 17 with the sponsor we should be addressing the 18 problems of uninsured New Yorkers. We should 19 be coming up with models for health insurance 20 that expand the pool of people who are covered 21 at the lowest cost to the taxpayer, and with 22 an assurance that the health insurance they're 23 getting will in fact meet their needs when 24 they're sick. 25 Unfortunately, this package would

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(518) 371-8910 1 not guarantee they actually get access to 2 healthcare, just a high-deductible package 3 called an insurance policy. It would cost the 4 State of New York $2 billion annually when 5 fully implemented, if I understood the 6 sponsor's answers correctly. There's no 7 documentation that new New Yorkers would be 8 covered by this health insurance. This isn't 9 the direction we should go. 10 On the other hand, I would argue 11 that the Senate Democrats and Senator Valesky 12 in his bill, 5544, actually proposes a plan 13 that would address some of the needs of 14 uninsured New Yorkers without costing an 15 enormous amount of money to the state, that 16 would provide insurance to people currently 17 employed and not insured, that we would 18 actually, through pooling, the buying power of 19 small businesses and their employees, 20 potentially decrease the cost of premiums for 21 health insurance for small businesses up to 22 40 percent. 23 There are directions we can go. 24 There are steps we should take to expand the 25 pool of employees in the State of New York who

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(518) 371-8910 1 can be insured and to help decrease the costs 2 for small businesses. But to quote Citizen 3 Action, one of the opponents to the bill, "The 4 Freedom to Sell Really, Really, Really Bad 5 Health Insurance Policies" should be the name 6 of this freedom plan. 7 So I hope that Senator Seward might 8 consider going back to the drawing board, 9 continuing his desire to expand health 10 insurance in the State of New York for 11 uninsured people, but please don't go down 12 this road. The research done nationally on 13 states who have done this has shown us that 14 these are serious mistakes, that what this 15 type of model gets you is a race to the bottom 16 in terms of what health insurance means today 17 and actually covers for people. 18 So we could say we feed every 19 New Yorker by claiming, if we give every one 20 of them a slice of bread, everybody ate every 21 day, but we would know that wasn't really 22 addressing the food needs of New Yorkers. And 23 we can move forward with plans such as this 24 and pretend we're expanding the universe of 25 health insurance coverage. But it is a race

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(518) 371-8910 1 to the bottom where our health insurance 2 coverage ultimately won't cover anything we 3 get sick for. 4 So I would urge my colleagues to 5 vote against this bill. 6 Thank you very much, Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any 8 other Senator wish to be heard on the bill? 9 Senator Oppenheimer. 10 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you, 11 Mr. President. 12 I appreciate what it is Senator 13 Seward is attempting with this bill, these 14 freedom policies. But I have some objections 15 which I'm going to mention in a moment. 16 But if the goal is to lower the 17 cost of health insurance for small businesses 18 and for their employees, I think there's 19 better ways to do that. And $2 billion is not 20 a small amount of money. But if it were to be 21 put into our program which we already have, 22 which is Family Health Plus, you could cover a 23 half a million low-wage employees for the same 24 amount of money, and the coverage would be 25 much better and at a lower cost than what's

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(518) 371-8910 1 available now in the private health insurance 2 market. 3 What I'm talking about is my 4 concern, when I say the coverage is not ample, 5 this really would, you know, move backwards on 6 most of our consumer protection -- the 7 consumer protections that we have put in in 8 the last decade. 9 And what particularly concerns me 10 is certain women's health benefits that are 11 required now by law in our policies but would 12 not be required, and they are important -- 13 timely mammograms, osteoporosis screening, 14 prescription contraception. 15 And it's not just women's health 16 benefits, it's men's health benefits too. 17 There's -- no screening for prostate cancer 18 would be allowed. As far as our movement to 19 try and have children get their checkups and 20 their immunizations in a timely manner, that 21 wouldn't be included. And we keep talking 22 about preventive medicine. Well, that would 23 be eliminated in this freedom policy. 24 So -- and there's ever so many 25 other things that are not covered. Hospice

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(518) 371-8910 1 care isn't covered, home healthcare by 2 registered nurses, outpatient treatment for 3 mental health. I mean, it's too much to give 4 up when you think that we do have a policy out 5 there. The Family Health Plus could meet all 6 the requirements of lower cost for small 7 businesses and at the same time would permit 8 good coverage for workers and their families. 9 So I'm going to be voting no and 10 hoping that we can find another answer. I 11 understand what you're doing is laudable, but 12 I don't think this is the answer. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any 14 other Senator wish to be heard on the bill? 15 Senator Schneiderman. 16 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 17 Mr. President. Briefly on the bill. 18 We spoke earlier at length on the 19 floor here today about immigration as an issue 20 that we're going to have to be dealing with 21 over the next few years. I would suggest that 22 the second issue we have to deal with is the 23 fact that the healthcare system in this 24 country, the system for insuring Americans, is 25 unravelling.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And I would respectfully submit 2 that the bill before us right now is the wrong 3 approach to solving that problem. This is not 4 a market approach to dealing with healthcare, 5 the fact that we have an exploding pool of 6 uninsured in New York State. In fact, this is 7 a bill where we intervene in the market to 8 provide tax subsidies essentially to bribe 9 small businesses to cut health benefits. 10 This is proving tax subsidies for 11 the so-called freedom plans. The freedom 12 plans are free from requirements that they 13 provide healthcare services, that's what the 14 freedom is. 15 And my colleagues have spoken about 16 the struggle to pass health benefits for 17 women, to provide managed-care consumer 18 protections. Under this bill, a plan could 19 eliminate all of these requirements that have 20 been fought for, stop covering contraception, 21 stop covering checkups and immunizations for 22 children and, to add insult to injury, get a 23 tax state subsidy. So the taxpayers are 24 subsidizing plans to encourage small 25 businesses to provide inadequate healthcare,

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(518) 371-8910 1 to provide less healthcare than many of those 2 businesses are providing now. 3 This is not the right approach. We 4 have got to do something about the crisis of 5 the uninsured. We're not going to do it by 6 cutting benefits. 7 I note that there is a campaign on 8 this year, as there has been last year, and 9 many are hopeful that we'll pass Timothy's Law 10 to provide parity on the treatment of mental 11 health problems. If we did that, this bill 12 would provide a loophole for that also. 13 I mean, this is something that 14 creates inadequate healthcare and requires a 15 tax subsidy. It is not a market-driven bill. 16 On the other hand, Senator 17 Valesky's bill, Senate 5544, is a completely 18 market-driven bill. It pools small businesses 19 to enable them to purchase health insurance at 20 a lower rate by pooling their market power. 21 That's the kind of market-driven approach. 22 Let's not pass a bill that 23 subsidizes businesses that cut benefits for 24 their workers. Let's move forward and expand 25 coverage. Let's pass Timothy's Law. You want

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(518) 371-8910 1 to cut the expense of health insurance? Let's 2 move towards a simpler, more rational system, 3 as they have in every other industrial 4 democracy, and stop the insurance bureaucrats 5 from driving up the costs of healthcare. 6 I'm going to vote no, Mr. 7 President, and encourage everyone to vote no. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any 9 other Senator wish to be heard on the bill? 10 Debate is closed, then. 11 The Secretary will ring the bell. 12 Read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 25. This 14 act shall take effect January 1, 2006. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 19 Seward, to explain his vote. 20 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, thank you, 21 Mr. President, to explain my vote. 22 I certainly would have to say that 23 everyone deserves access to primary, 24 preventive and acute care, along with all of 25 the other medical technology and the new

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(518) 371-8910 1 pharmaceuticals that goes along with all of 2 that, and especially the peace of mind that 3 they and their families are covered with their 4 health insurance. 5 But the question is, can they 6 afford it. And for far too many New Yorkers, 7 that answer is no. 8 And for those who would argue that 9 everything is fine, that we do not need change 10 in the state of New York, that the health 11 insurance policies that have been designed 12 through statute, in this house and the other, 13 the simple fact is that over half the 14 particularly small businesses of New York 15 cannot afford the health insurance policies 16 that have been designed by statute. 17 This legislation before us would 18 provide available and affordable health 19 insurance coverage for those 3 million 20 New Yorkers who currently have no coverage at 21 all. I think it's a worthy goal, this is a 22 blueprint to get us there, and I vote aye. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 24 Seward will be recorded in the affirmative. 25 Senator Hassell-Thompson, to

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(518) 371-8910 1 explain her vote. 2 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Yes, 3 thank you. Thank you, Mr. President. 4 We've had a lot of discussion. And 5 the interesting thing is that many of our 6 small businesses have in fact come to us to 7 talk about the kinds of insurances that they 8 need to be able to have for their employees. 9 But when I look at this bill, while 10 it may purport to do that, the biggest concern 11 that I have is that while gutting the basic 12 protections of the Women's Health and Wellness 13 Law, this plan would also experience drastic 14 changes or cause drastic changes to maternity 15 services, pediatric oncology, and possibly 16 more. 17 Some of the examples of quick 18 concerns that I have is that this bill would 19 allow the HMOs to set their standards for 20 hospital discharges for new mothers and 21 babies. And while I know that many of you 22 know historically that women have gone to the 23 fields and had their babies and gone back to 24 the fields in the same afternoon, I certainly 25 don't encourage that kind of behavior for

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(518) 371-8910 1 maternal care. 2 The freedom plan also -- this 3 legislation would also allow health plans to 4 limit or deny the coverage for 5 doctor-recommended well-child visits where 6 children receive their immunization and 7 practitioners track them for growth and 8 development. On and on. 9 But suffice it to say that this 10 would also allow HMOs to decide if they wish 11 to exclude coverage for infertility. 12 For many of these reasons, I will 13 be voting no, Mr. President, on this 14 particular bill. Thank you. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 16 Hassell-Thompson will be recorded in the 17 negative. 18 The Secretary will announce the 19 results. 20 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 21 the negative on Calendar Number 1639 are 22 Senators Brown, Connor, Diaz, Dilan, Duane, 23 Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, C. Kruger, 24 Montgomery, Morahan, Oppenheimer, Parker, 25 Paterson, Sabini, Sampson, Savino,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Schneiderman, A. Smith, Stavisky. Also 2 recorded in the negative, Senators M. Smith 3 and Serrano. 4 Those Senators absent from voting 5 on Calendar Number 1639: Senators Bonacic and 6 Gonzalez. 7 Ayes, 37. Nays, 21. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 9 is passed. 10 Senator Fuschillo. 11 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. 12 President, could we please return to the 13 noncontroversial reading of Supplemental 14 Calendar A. 15 Calendar Number 1664, Senate Print 16 Number 5739, from the Rules report was 17 inadvertently left off the active list. It 18 was reported from Rules. Please take it up. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Very 20 well. The Secretary will return to the 21 noncontroversial reading of the calendar and 22 will read Calendar 1664. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 1664, substituted earlier today by the 25 Assembly Committee on Rules, Assembly Print

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(518) 371-8910 1 Number 8818, an act to amend the Insurance 2 Law. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 4 last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 11 Breslin, to explain his vote. 12 SENATOR BRESLIN: Yes, Your 13 Honor. When I arrived in the Senate nine 14 years ago, I thought NYPIUA was the name of a 15 dog. But fortunately for all of us, it's not. 16 It's a safety net insurance association that 17 provides coverage to homes and businesses 18 throughout this state when, quite frankly, 19 there's not insurance available other places. 20 And it insures some 57,000 homes and 21 businesses -- 30,000 in New York City, some 22 14,000 in Long Island, and the remainder 23 basically in upstate cities, with some minor 24 farm areas. 25 And we, other than Alabama, are the

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(518) 371-8910 1 only state that doesn't have this as a 2 permanent association. So those 57,000 homes 3 and businesses each year have to worry about 4 extending it. And we've in fact let it lapse 5 on a couple of occasions. The Assembly has 6 seen fit over the last 10 years to pass 7 legislation that has made it permanent. But 8 we don't. 9 And think of yourself as a 10 homeowner or a business owner, each year 11 wondering what the New York State Legislature 12 is going to do. If I'm in that precarious 13 situation of being subject to storms off the 14 coast of Long Island or be in cities and areas 15 that are dangerous and subject to vandalism or 16 fire, and each year wondering whether next 17 year will I have the appropriate insurance, 18 the appropriate insurance to keep my business 19 afloat or to have a home for my family. 20 I vote aye on this legislation 21 extending it a year, but I think we should 22 seriously consider finally making it permanent 23 and leaving Alabama alone. 24 Thank you, Mr. President. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Breslin will be recorded in the affirmative. 2 Senator LaValle, to explain his 3 vote. 4 SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you, Mr. 5 President. 6 I rise to support this legislation, 7 reluctantly. And my remarks really would 8 parallel Senator Breslin's. 9 Orange homeowners, particularly on 10 Long Island, where we have a lot of homes 11 along the water, need permanency, need to know 12 that they have coverage. Last year the law 13 lapsed, actually, for a couple of months, and 14 both agents and homeowners were really in a 15 state of concern, nervousness. And that 16 shouldn't happen. 17 I just hope in the intervening year 18 that we heed the advice of the independent 19 agents who really would like to see this, you 20 know, extended for a longer period of time or 21 made permanent. I think that time has really 22 come. I don't believe we should be making 23 laws that -- where we're playing Russian 24 roulette with the homeowners of our state. 25 So I reluctantly cast my vote in

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(518) 371-8910 1 the affirmative. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 3 LaValle will be recorded in the affirmative. 4 The Secretary will announce the 5 results. 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 8 is passed. 9 Senator Fuschillo. 10 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. 11 President, could we please return to the 12 reading of the controversial calendar, 13 starting with Calendar Number 1664 -- 1665 -- 14 1645. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 16 third time is the charm, Senator. 17 The Secretary will return to the 18 controversial reading of the calendar, 19 beginning with Calendar 1645. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1645, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2206, 22 an act to amend the Penal Law and others. 23 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Explanation. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 25 Padavan, an explanation has been requested of

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(518) 371-8910 1 Calendar 1645. 2 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, Mr. 3 President. 4 While auto crime in the state has 5 dramatically decreased over the past decade, 6 it's still a very serious issue. 7 We've done a bit of work in the 8 subject area -- lot of hearings, two reports, 9 one called "The Perfect Crime" and the other a 10 follow-up to that report. We had police 11 agencies, such as the NYPD, city of New York, 12 district attorneys, such as the DAs from 13 Queens and Brooklyn and others, come before us 14 with recommendations and problem areas that 15 they had identified in the course of their 16 dealing with this serious problem. 17 And it is a serious problem. It 18 affects all of us. It affects our insurance 19 rates. It's a vehicle by which organized 20 crime finances other activities as well as 21 makes money off this. It affects the quality 22 of life. It affects people's plans when they 23 go outside their house one day and their car 24 is not there. And it deals also with the 25 issue of stolen parts, which sometimes are not

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(518) 371-8910 1 quite what they should be, ending up in 2 someone else's vehicle and providing an unsafe 3 environment. 4 Now, the primary problem that was 5 brought to our attention is addressed by this 6 bill. And I might say, parenthetically, the 7 problem we have has been addressed many years 8 ago in our neighboring states such as 9 New Jersey and Pennsylvania. And that deals 10 with the issue of reasonable presumptions. 11 First, the bill would create a 12 statutory knowledge presumption modeled on the 13 presumption for credit and debit cards 14 contained in the same section of the law. 15 It's highly unlikely that a person in the 16 possession of two stolen vehicles would not 17 know that they were stolen. 18 Second, the bill would create an 19 evidentiary presumption that a person who 20 takes, operates, rides or sits inside or 21 otherwise uses a motor vehicle possesses that 22 vehicle for the purposes of criminal 23 possession of stolen property, that he wasn't 24 just sitting in there getting out of the cold. 25 Now, this problem came to light

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(518) 371-8910 1 significantly in a case known as the Rivera 2 case, where an individual -- a policeman came 3 upon this individual in a car where the lock 4 had been broken on the outside, where part of 5 the steering wheel had been disassembled, 6 obviously with the intent of shorting out the 7 ignition, and he arrested him. And he was 8 charged with auto theft. 9 In the final disposition of the 10 case, the court ruled that since no evidence 11 was offered to establish when the defendant 12 entered the vehicle or what part, if any, he 13 played in its taking, his presence in the car 14 could not be equated to auto theft but simply 15 a lesser crime which would be akin to 16 trespass. 17 Now, obviously, that puts a crimp 18 in the ability of dealing with individuals, 19 because the penalty is significantly 20 different. And so this bill would address 21 that problem. The net result of the Rivera 22 case is that passengers in stolen autos would 23 only be subject to a charge of unauthorized 24 use, unauthorized use of a motor vehicle. 25 Unauthorized use statutes begin with a Class A

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(518) 371-8910 1 misdemeanor. As opposed to grand larceny, 2 which is obvious a felony. 3 Now, I have personal experience of 4 my own. A car was stolen in front of my 5 house. Six weeks later, the person who stole 6 it rammed it into another car, and as a result 7 of that serious accident he was arrested. 8 Because when the police came on the scene, 9 while the license plate had been changed, from 10 Senate whatever to North Carolina, he hadn't 11 changed the registration sticker on the 12 windshield. So they knew something was wrong. 13 And they arrested him, and they 14 charged him with auto theft. Now, he said, "I 15 didn't steal the car." And they said, "You 16 didn't? Well, you were driving it. And as a 17 matter of fact, you totaled it." He said, 18 "No, it was given to me by another guy." And 19 he gave him up. 20 And sure enough, someone had given 21 him the car, the guy that had stolen it. 22 Fortunately, that guy was also in jail at that 23 moment in time, because he had committed 24 another crime between stealing my car and 25 giving my car to this other fellow who was

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(518) 371-8910 1 apprehended. 2 The point I'm making is that when 3 that individual who was found with my car was 4 facing an auto theft prosecution, he was very 5 eager to tell the police who had actually 6 stolen the car. Well, that may be an isolated 7 case. 8 But the issue, simply put, is if 9 someone is in a car, the lock's broken, he's 10 sitting there, he hasn't driven off yet and a 11 policeman comes upon the scene, does the 12 district attorney have to prove that he was in 13 the process of stealing the car? Or should 14 the defendant have to prove that he wasn't in 15 the process of stealing the car? Which is 16 currently the way it is, as a result of the 17 Rivera case. 18 This bill would address that issue, 19 along with some other issues involving chop 20 shops. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 22 Montgomery. 23 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, I just 24 wanted to thank Senator Padavan for that 25 explanation and that example.

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(518) 371-8910 1 I think I just want to comment, Mr. 2 President, on the legislation. I certainly 3 agree with Senator Padavan that if you are -- 4 if you possess two vehicles, two stolen 5 vehicles, vehicles that you did not purchase, 6 that you should know that they probably are 7 stolen or you should know that there's a 8 presumption that you should know that they're 9 stolen. 10 However, I do have a serious 11 problem with this issue of the fact that the 12 bill creates an evidentiary presumption that a 13 person who rides or sits inside a vehicle 14 possesses that vehicle for the purpose of 15 criminal possession of stolen property, and he 16 creates a grand larceny charge. 17 Now, the problem that I have is 18 that while in the case of the person who was 19 found driving his car -- which is obviously a 20 terrible traumatic experience to have a car 21 stolen -- the person was not guilty of 22 actually stealing the car himself but received 23 the car from someone else who had stolen the 24 car. 25 But in many parts of our state, as

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(518) 371-8910 1 well as the city, but not even as much as the 2 city, in other parts of the state young people 3 start to drive very early, and they ride in 4 groups of two or three or four. And this 5 legislation would, in the event some young 6 person takes a vehicle that doesn't belong to 7 that young person and goes to pick up several 8 or his or her friends, those youngsters would 9 be eligible to be prosecuted under this 10 legislation. 11 And so I think that we need to 12 really think a little bit more about how we 13 include everybody. We already have that 14 problem that if you're in the car and there's 15 drugs in the car, there's a gun in the car, 16 everyone in the car is equally guilty. This 17 continues that trend. And I think that we 18 should think about this a little bit more. 19 So I'm going to vote no on this, 20 Mr. President, because I don't feel 21 comfortable with including sitting in a 22 vehicle as being presumed to have knowledge 23 that it's stolen and thereby being charged 24 with a crime. Thank you. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any

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(518) 371-8910 1 other Senator wish to be heard on the bill? 2 Debate is closed, then. 3 The Secretary will ring the bell. 4 Senator Saland. 5 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Mr. 6 President. A bit of housekeeping. 7 I'd like to remove a sponsor's star 8 on Senate 5415, Calendar 1272. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: So 10 ordered. 11 Read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 10. This 13 act shall take effect on the first of 14 November. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 16 roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 19 the negative on Calendar Number 1645 are 20 Senators Duane, Hassell-Thompson, Montgomery 21 and Parker. 22 Absent from voting: Senators 23 Bonacic and Gonzalez. 24 Ayes, 54. Nays, 4. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill

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(518) 371-8910 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1661, by Senator Spano -- 4 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Lay it aside 5 for the day. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the 7 bill aside for the day. 8 Senator Fuschillo, that completes 9 the controversial reading of the calendar. 10 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. 11 President, there will be an immediate meeting 12 of the Rules Committee in the Majority 13 Conference Room. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Could we 15 take care of some housekeeping? 16 We'll call an immediate meeting of 17 the Rules Committee in the Majority Conference 18 Room. 19 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Is there 20 housekeeping at the desk? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: We have 22 some, yes. 23 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Please take 24 care of it. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Robach. 2 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes, Mr. 3 President. On page 31, I offer the following 4 amendments to Calendar Number 911, Senate 5 Print Number 4040A, and ask that the said bill 6 retain its place on Third Reading Calendar, on 7 behalf of Senator Fuschillo. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 9 amendments are received and adopted, and the 10 bill will retain its place on third reading. 11 SENATOR ROBACH: And also, Mr. 12 President, on page 7, I offer the following 13 amendments to Calendar 149, Senate Print 14 Number 484B, and ask that said bill retain its 15 place on third reading, on behalf of Senator 16 Skelos. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 18 amendments are received and adopted, and the 19 bill will retain its place on the Third 20 Reading Calendar. 21 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. 22 President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 24 Fuschillo. 25 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: We will stand

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(518) 371-8910 1 at ease pending the return of the report of 2 Rules Committee. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 4 Senate will stand at ease pending the report 5 of the Rules Committee. 6 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 7 ease at 6:08 p.m.) 8 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened 9 at 6:30 p.m.) 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 11 Fuschillo. 12 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. 13 President, would you return to the reports of 14 standing committees. I believe there's a 15 report of the Rules Committee at the desk. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Reports 17 of standing committees. 18 The Secretary will read the report 19 of the Rules Committee. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 21 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 22 following bills: 23 Senate Print 751, by Senator 24 Hannon, an act to amend the New York State 25 Medical Care Facilities Finance Agency Act;

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(518) 371-8910 1 2444B, by Senator Padavan, an act 2 to amend Part H of Chapter 60 of the Laws of 3 2004; 4 4157B, by Senator Robach, an act to 5 amend the Criminal Procedure Law; 6 4175, by Senator Maltese, an act to 7 amend the Penal Law; 8 4281, by Senator Oppenheimer, an 9 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law; 10 4504B, by Senator Maziarz, an act 11 to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law; 12 4698, by Senator Golden, an act to 13 amend the Penal Law; 14 4734, by Senator Maltese, an act to 15 amend the New York State Financial Emergency 16 Act for the City of New York; 17 4758A, by Senator Saland, an act to 18 amend the Penal Law; 19 4778, by Senator Padavan, an act to 20 amend the Private Housing Finance Law; 21 4970, by Senator Padavan, an act to 22 amend the Administrative Code of the City of 23 New York; 24 5025A, by Senator Alesi, an act to 25 establish;

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(518) 371-8910 1 5168, by Senator Marchi, an act to 2 amend the Civil Service Law; 3 5185, by Senator Leibell, an act to 4 amend the Public Authorities Law; 5 5259, by Senator Padavan, an act to 6 amend the Real Property Tax Law; 7 5297A, by Senator Meier, an act to 8 amend the Education Law; 9 5359, by Senator Padavan, an act to 10 amend the Real Property Tax Law; 11 5373, by Senator Golden, an act to 12 authorize; 13 5418, by Senator Marchi, an act to 14 amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law; 15 5419A, by Senator Spano, an act to 16 amend the Environmental Conservation Law; 17 5491A, by Senator Flanagan, an act 18 to amend the Education Law; 19 5511, by Senator Spano, an act to 20 authorize; 21 5520A, by the Senate Committee on 22 Rules, an act to amend the Tax Law; 23 5534A, by Senator Wright, an act to 24 amend the Social Services Law; 25 5576A, by Senator Marcellino, an

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(518) 371-8910 1 act to amend the Environmental Conservation 2 Law; 3 5587A, by Senator Leibell, an act 4 to amend the Military Law; 5 5617, by the Senate Committee on 6 Rules, an act to amend the Tax Law; 7 5658A, by Senator Maziarz, an act 8 to amend the Public Authorities Law; 9 5676, by Senator Little, an act to 10 authorize; 11 5677, by Senator Johnson, an act to 12 amend the Executive Law; 13 5680, by Senator Volker, an act to 14 provide; 15 5681, by Senator Volker, an act to 16 amend the Tax Law; 17 5686, by Senator Young, an act to 18 amend the Education Law; 19 5687, by Senator Seward, an act to 20 amend the Highway Law; 21 5691, by the Senate Committee on 22 Rules, an act to amend the Tax Law; 23 5721, by the Senate Committee on 24 Rules, an act to amend the Tax Law; 25 5738, by Senator Meier, an act to

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(518) 371-8910 1 amend the Public Authorities Law; 2 And Senate Print 5741, by Senator 3 LaValle, an act establishing. 4 All bills ordered direct to third 5 reading. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 7 Fuschillo. 8 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Move to 9 accept the report of the Rules Committee. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: All 11 those in favor of accepting the report of the 12 Rules Committee signify by saying aye. 13 (Response of "Aye.") 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those 15 opposed, nay. 16 (No response.) 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 18 report of the Rules Committee is accepted. 19 Senator Fuschillo, the Secretary 20 has a couple of subs. Could we do those 21 first? 22 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Please take 23 them up. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 25 Secretary will read the substitutions.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: On page 4, 2 Senator Marcellino moves to discharge, from 3 the Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 4 6402A and substitute it for the identical 5 Senate Bill Number 1485A, Third Reading 6 Calendar 64. 7 On page 33, Senator Larkin moves to 8 discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 9 Assembly Bill Number 5767 and substitute it 10 for the identical Senate Bill Number 444, 11 Third Reading Calendar 992. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 13 Substitutions ordered. 14 Senator Fuschillo. 15 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. 16 President, please take up Supplemental 17 Calendar B. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 19 Secretary will conduct the noncontroversial 20 reading of Supplemental Calendar B. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 1671, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 751, an 23 act to amend the New York State Medical Care 24 Facilities Finance Agency Act. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the

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(518) 371-8910 1 last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 5 roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 9 is passed. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 1672, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 2444B, 12 an act to amend Part H of Chapter 60 of the 13 Laws of 2004 amending the Tax Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 15 last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 19 roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 23 is passed. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 1674 --

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Lay it 2 aside. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the 4 bill aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 1675, by Senator Oppenheimer, Senate Print 7 4281, an act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic 8 Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is 10 a home-rule message at the desk. 11 Read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 15 roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 19 is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 21 Calendar Number 1676, Senator Maziarz moves to 22 discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 23 Assembly Bill Number 7264B and substitute it 24 for the identical Senate Bill Number 4504B, 25 Third Reading Calendar 1676.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 2 Substitution ordered. 3 The Secretary will read. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 1676, by Member of the Assembly Abbate, 6 Assembly Print Number 7264B, an act to amend 7 the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 9 last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect on the 90th day. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 13 roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 17 is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 1677, by Senator Golden, Senate Print 4698, an 20 act to amend the Penal Law. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 22 last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 24 act shall take effect on the 90th day. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the

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(518) 371-8910 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 4 Parker, to explain his vote. 5 SENATOR PARKER: Yes, thank you, 6 Mr. President, to explain my vote. 7 I want to first thank the sponsor, 8 Senator Golden, for raising this important 9 issue. And I think that, you know, 10 prostitution and what happens with our young 11 people is critically important, and it's 12 important that we deal with it. 13 But there are many issues that have 14 not been dealt with as of yet. We only have 15 three days yet, three, before we end session. 16 And it's critical that we spend some time 17 really dealing with the issues that need to be 18 dealt with. We would not have to worry about 19 prostitution from young children if we had 20 done what we were supposed to be doing here, 21 what the people of the state have said we need 22 to do, what the courts have said we need to 23 do, what the Legislature knows we need to do, 24 and putting more money into our schools for 25 education. CFE needs to be dealt with, and it

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(518) 371-8910 1 needs to be dealt with before we leave here 2 this session. 3 This is an important bill, and I 4 think that we should continue -- I'm voting 5 for it. I think we should pass it -- 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 7 Fuschillo, why do you rise? 8 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. 9 President, I appreciate everything Senator 10 Parker is saying. I don't believe this is 11 germane to the bill that's on the floor. 12 SENATOR PARKER: I'm 13 explaining -- 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Well, 15 Senator, the Acting Majority Leader's point is 16 well taken. The purpose of the time you're 17 granted is to explain your vote. 18 SENATOR PARKER: And I'm voting 19 for this bill, and I'll tell you why I'm 20 voting for this bill -- 21 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Mr. 22 President, point of order. Point of order. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 24 Schneiderman, why do you rise? 25 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Point of

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(518) 371-8910 1 order. 2 There is nothing in the Senate 3 Rules, and I invite anyone to contradict me, 4 that imposes a germaneness requirement on 5 explaining the vote. Two minutes, that's it. 6 I respectfully request that Senator 7 Parker be allowed to continue. The 8 germaneness requirement does apply when you're 9 speaking on a bill, but not when you're 10 explaining a vote. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Well, 12 Senator, it's the ruling of the chair that the 13 germaneness requirement relates to the matter 14 before the house. And the Senator is 15 recognized for the purpose of explaining his 16 vote on the bill before the house. 17 Senator Parker. 18 SENATOR PARKER: I will explain 19 my vote. 20 I'm voting yes on this bill and I'm 21 voting yes on this bill because I've worked 22 with Senator Golden, I think that he knows 23 what's important for young people. I think 24 that he thinks that this is a good step for us 25 doing it.

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(518) 371-8910 1 But in addition to this good step, 2 we also need to do other things, like CFE. 3 And I'm hoping that he will use this as a 4 gateway to talk about some of the other 5 issues. 6 We're in the last three days, Mr. 7 President. I hope we get an opportunity to 8 talk about Timothy's Law and ethics reform and 9 rules reform, in addition to dealing with 10 these important issues. 11 I'm voting aye. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 13 Parker will be recorded in the affirmative. 14 Senator Montgomery, to explain her 15 vote. 16 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Mr. 17 President, to explain my vote. 18 I'm voting no on this bill, and I 19 wish that Senator Golden would see fit to make 20 sure that any john who accepts the actions 21 that he describes in here of a 14-year-old 22 should be severely punished. And maybe they 23 should even receive the punishment of Senator 24 LaValle's bill this morning. But he chooses 25 to punish the children.

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(518) 371-8910 1 So I'm voting no on this 2 legislation. I think it's the wrong -- we're 3 punishing the wrong one. We should be 4 punishing the johns. 5 Thank you. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 7 Montgomery will be recorded in the negative. 8 The Secretary will announce the 9 results. 10 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 11 the negative on Calendar Number 1677 are 12 Senators Duane, Hassell-Thompson and 13 Montgomery. 14 Ayes, 57. Nays, 3. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 16 is passed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1678, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 4734, 19 an act to amend the New York State Financial 20 Emergency Act for the City of New York. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 22 last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 24 act shall take effect immediately. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the

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(518) 371-8910 1 roll. 2 (The Secretary called the roll.) 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 5 is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1679, by Senator Saland -- 8 SENATOR SAVINO: Lay it aside. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the 10 bill aside. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1680, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 4778, 13 an act to amend the Private Housing Finance 14 Law. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 16 last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 24 is passed. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number

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(518) 371-8910 1 1681, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 4970, 2 an act to amend the Administrative Code of the 3 City of New York. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 5 last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1682, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 5025A, an 16 act to establish a statewide first responder 17 building mapping information system. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 19 last section. 20 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 21 act shall take effect immediately. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 23 roll. 24 (The Secretary called the roll.) 25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 2 is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 1683, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 5168, an 5 act to amend the Civil Service Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 7 last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 15 is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 1684, by Senator Leibell, Senate Print 5185, 18 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 20 last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 24 roll. 25 (The Secretary called the roll.)

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 3 is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 5 Calendar Number 1685, Senator Padavan moves to 6 discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 7 Assembly Bill Number 7728 and substitute it 8 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5259, 9 Third Reading Calendar 1685. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 11 Substitution ordered. 12 The Secretary will read. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1685, by Member of the Assembly McLaughlin, 15 Assembly Print Number 7728, an act to amend 16 the Real Property Tax Law. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 18 last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill

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(518) 371-8910 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 3 Calendar Number 1686, Senator Meier moves to 4 discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 5 Assembly Bill Number 7172A and substitute it 6 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5297A, 7 Third Reading Calendar 1686. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 9 Substitution ordered. 10 The Secretary will read. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 1686, by Member of the Assembly Magee, 13 Assembly Print Number 7172A, an act to amend 14 the Education Law. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 16 last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 24 is passed. 25 THE SECRETARY: In relation to

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(518) 371-8910 1 Calendar Number 1687, Senator Padavan moves to 2 discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 3 Assembly Bill Number 8120 and substitute it 4 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5359, 5 Third Reading Calendar 1687. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 7 Substitution ordered. 8 The Secretary will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1687, by Member of the Assembly McLaughlin, 11 Assembly Print Number 8120, an act to amend 12 the Real Property Tax Law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 14 last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 22 is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 1688, by Senator Golden, Senate Print 5373, an 25 act to authorize the City of New York.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is 2 a home-rule message at the desk. 3 Read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 11 is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1689, by Senator Marchi, Senate Print 5418, an 14 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 16 last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 24 is passed. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number

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(518) 371-8910 1 1690, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5419A, an 2 act to amend the Environmental Conservation 3 Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 5 last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 13 is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 1691, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 5491A, 16 an act to amend the Education Law. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 18 last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect -- 21 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Lay it 22 aside. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the 24 bill aside. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number

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(518) 371-8910 1 1692, by Senator Spano, Senate Print 5511, an 2 act to authorize the reopening of an optional 3 twenty-year retirement plan. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is 5 a home-rule message at the desk. 6 Read the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 16 Calendar Number 1693, Senator Bruno moves to 17 discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 18 Assembly Bill Number 6214A and substitute it 19 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5520A, 20 Third Reading Calendar 1693. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 22 Substitution ordered. 23 The Secretary will read. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 1693, by Member of the Assembly Oaks, Assembly

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(518) 371-8910 1 Print Number 6214A, an act to amend the Tax 2 Law. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is 4 a local fiscal impact note at the desk. 5 Read the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect on the first of July. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 9 roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 59. Nays, 12 1. Senator Valesky recorded if the negative. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1694, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 5534A, 17 an act to amend the Social Services Law. 18 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Lay it 19 aside. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the 21 bill aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1695, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 24 5576A, an act to amend the Environmental 25 Conservation Law.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 2 last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 4 act shall take effect on the 90th day. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 6 roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 10 is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 12 Calendar Number 1696, Senator Leibell moves to 13 discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 14 Assembly Bill Number 8476B and substitute it 15 for the identical Senate Bill Number 5587A, 16 Third Reading Calendar 1696. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: 18 Substitution ordered. 19 The Secretary will read. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1696, by Member of the Assembly Towns, 22 Assembly Print Number 8476B, an act to amend 23 the Military Law. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 25 last section.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 4 roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 8 is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1697, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 11 Print Number 5617, an act to amend the Tax Law 12 and others. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 14 last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 22. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 18 roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 22 is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 1699, by Senator Little, Senate Print 5676, an 25 act to authorize the Town of Tupper Lake in

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(518) 371-8910 1 the County of Franklin. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is 3 a home-rule message at the desk. 4 Read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 8 roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1700, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print 5677, 15 an act to amend the Executive Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 17 last section. 18 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Lay it 19 aside. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the 21 bill aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 1705, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 24 Print Number 5691, an act to amend the Tax 25 Law.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is 2 a local fiscal impact note at the desk. 3 Read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 7 roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 59. Nays, 10 1. Senator Valesky recorded in the negative. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 12 is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1706, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 15 Print Number 5721, an act to amend the Tax 16 Law. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 18 last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 22 roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill

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(518) 371-8910 1 is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 1707, by Senator Meier, Senate Print 5738, an 4 act to amend the Public Authorities Law. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 6 last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 10 roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 14 is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 1708, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 5741, 17 an act establishing the Town of East Hampton. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There is 19 a home-rule message at the desk. 20 Read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 9. This 22 act shall take effect on the 60th day. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 24 roll. 25 (The Secretary called the roll.)

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 3 is passed. 4 Senator Fuschillo, that completes 5 the noncontroversial reading of the calendar. 6 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. 7 President, will you please take up Calendar 8 Number 1691, by Senator Flanagan. It was 9 inadvertently laid aside. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 11 Secretary will read Calendar 1691. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 1691, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 5491A, 14 an act to amend the Education Law. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 16 last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 20 roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 24 is passed. 25 Senator Fuschillo.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. 2 President, will you please read the 3 controversial calendar. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 5 Secretary will take up the controversial 6 reading of the calendar. 7 The Secretary will ring the bell. 8 The Secretary will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 1674, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 4175, 11 an act to amend the Penal Law and the Public 12 Health Law. 13 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: 14 Explanation. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 16 Maltese, Senator Hassell-Thompson has 17 requested an explanation of Calendar 1674. 18 SENATOR MALTESE: Yes, Mr. 19 President. This bill concerns making a 20 misdemeanor the knowingly and unlawfully 21 possessing a hypodermic syringe or a 22 hypodermic needle. 23 In addition, it changed the gender. 24 The original legislation said "he." It 25 changed it, making it gender-neutral, to "such

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(518) 371-8910 1 person." 2 And this bill is the result of so 3 many instances of people going into public 4 places and having exposed needles and 5 apparently getting -- criminally injecting 6 others in these public places, surreptitiously 7 and harmfully, and then worrying the recipient 8 of the punctures that the needle might possess 9 AIDS or some similar disease that could be 10 transmitted by the needle. 11 In addition, it makes unlawful the 12 possession in a public place of the hypodermic 13 needle that is not safely capped. It has some 14 protections as far as possessing it for lawful 15 purposes, and in addition renders as an 16 affirmative defense to a prosecution, under 17 that section, that the defense that the 18 defendant's exposure of the hypodermic needle 19 was both temporary and in conjunction with the 20 necessary injection. 21 So if you have a person with 22 diabetes and they're exposing the needle in a 23 public place for the purposes of taking a dose 24 of insulin or what have you, that is an 25 exclusion under the bill.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 2 Hassell-Thompson. 3 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Okay, 4 thank you, Mr. President. Just quickly on the 5 bill, because that was -- the last part of 6 Senator Maltese's statement was, I guess, the 7 bulk of my concern. Because many persons who 8 are diabetic who have to give themselves 9 injections in public would be subject to this. 10 But I guess the question that I -- 11 if I have any to raise, would be, through you, 12 Mr. President, is if they have to -- if -- 13 this bill says it's unlawful. But you're 14 saying that they are exempt. And I'm trying 15 to figure out if they have to go to court 16 before they're exempt, or is an explanation to 17 the police officer that may arrest them 18 sufficient in this instance. Because there's 19 nothing in this bill that says that that 20 exemption exists. 21 SENATOR MALTESE: Through you, 22 Mr. President, it would seem that a person 23 that was in such a public place with the 24 hypodermic needle injecting themselves, except 25 for the actual injection, would have the

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(518) 371-8910 1 needle safely capped or both retractable and 2 retracted or otherwise enclosed in a 3 puncture-proof container. 4 I don't think that this bill is an 5 invitation to police officers to arrest 6 diabetics who are injecting themselves. This 7 is, as I've indicated, the result of persons 8 unlawfully injecting others and subjecting 9 them to unnecessary tests in connection with 10 communicable diseases. 11 In response to your question, 12 Senator, it does seem that the person, if 13 arrested with an exposed needle and was unable 14 to adequately explain themselves to a police 15 officer, would have to use it as an 16 affirmative defense. 17 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: On the 18 bill. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 20 Hassell-Thompson, on the bill. 21 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: 22 Therein lies my concern about this bill, which 23 is why I will be voting no, because it puts 24 the onus on the person in a court of law in 25 order to prove themselves innocent.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Thank you, Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Any 3 other Senator wish to be heard on the bill? 4 Debate is closed, then. 5 The Secretary will ring the bell. 6 Members are asked to come to the chamber for a 7 vote. 8 Read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 10 act shall take effect on the 90th day. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 12 roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Announce 15 the results. 16 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 17 the negative on Calendar Number 1674 are 18 Senators Duane, Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, 19 Libous, Parker and Spano. 20 Those Senators absent from voting: 21 Bonacic, Gonzalez and Winner. 22 Ayes, 51. Nays, 6. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 24 is passed. 25 Senators, the chair is constrained

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(518) 371-8910 1 to make an observation. We are adding about 2 an hour to every calendar that we are going 3 through to corral members back in to vote. 4 And we're all going to grow old together if 5 this continues. 6 So we would ask members, when we 7 get to the controversial calendar, to please 8 be in the chamber for the vote so that we can 9 expedite passage of the bills that are 10 remaining in the session. 11 The Secretary will continue to 12 read. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 1679, by Senator Saland -- 15 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Lay it aside 16 for the day, please. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the 18 bill aside for the day. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 1694, by Senator Wright, Senate Print 5534A, 21 an act to amend the Social Services Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Read the 23 last section. 24 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 25 act shall take effect on the 120th day.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Call the 2 roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Announce 5 the results. 6 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 7 the negative on Calendar Number 1694: 8 Senators Hassell-Thompson and Montgomery. 9 Those Senators absent from voting: 10 Bonacic and Gonzalez. 11 Ayes, 56. Nays, 2. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The bill 13 is passed. 14 SENATOR CONNOR: Point of order, 15 Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 17 Connor. 18 SENATOR CONNOR: I heard no 19 explanation requested on that bill. Why does 20 it remain controversial such that absents are 21 recorded? 22 I know these are new rules; I've 23 been here a long time. If no one asks for an 24 explanation on the controversial reading, the 25 bill reverts to an uncontroversial status.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator, 2 the bill -- 3 SENATOR CONNOR: It's laid aside 4 for an explanation. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 6 point of order is addressed to the chair. 7 SENATOR CONNOR: Yes, Mr. 8 President. 9 My point is, if no one requests an 10 explanation, is not the bill no longer 11 controversial? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: No, 13 Senator, the bill is laid aside and goes to 14 the controversial calendar. 15 The Secretary will continue to 16 read. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 1700, by Senator Johnson, Senate Print -- 19 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Lay it aside 20 for the day, please. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Lay the 22 bill aside for the day. 23 Senator Fuschillo, that completes 24 this calendar. 25 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.

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(518) 371-8910 1 President, there will be a meeting of the 2 Rules Committee at 7:15 in the Majority 3 Conference Room. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 5 Rules Committee will meet at 7:15 in the 6 Majority Conference Room. 7 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Pending the 8 receipt and acceptance of the report, the 9 report will be for tomorrow's calendar. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 11 Senate will stand at ease, then, Senator? 12 Senator, could we complete some 13 housekeeping? We have a motion. 14 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: If there's 15 housekeeping at the desk, please take it up. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 17 Flanagan. 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you, Mr. 19 President. 20 On behalf of Senator Libous, I 21 request to call up Senate Bill 5688, recalled 22 from the Assembly, which is now at the desk. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 24 Secretary will read. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number

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(518) 371-8910 1 1630, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 5688, an 2 act to amend the Education Law. 3 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. President, 4 I now move to reconsider the vote by which the 5 bill was passed. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 7 Secretary will call the roll on 8 reconsideration. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. President, 12 I now offer the following amendments. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 14 amendments are received and adopted. 15 Senator Fuschillo. 16 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. 17 President, Senator Bruno, on behalf of Senator 18 Paterson, hands up the following Minority 19 leadership changes. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those 21 are received and will be recorded in the 22 Journal. 23 The Senate stands at ease. 24 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 25 ease at 7:08 p.m.)

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(518) 371-8910 1 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened 2 at 7:26 p.m.) 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 4 Fuschillo. 5 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. 6 President, may we please return to reports of 7 standing committees. I believe there's a 8 report of the Rules Committee at the desk. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Reports 10 of standing committees. 11 The Secretary will read. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 13 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 14 following bills: 15 Senate Print 843B, by Senator 16 LaValle, an act to amend the Education Law; 17 1404A, by Senator Seward, an act to 18 amend Chapter 668 of the Laws of 1977; 19 1936A, by Senator Golden, an act to 20 amend the Public Health Law; 21 2522, by Senator Krueger, an act to 22 authorize; 23 2543, by Senator Valesky, an act 24 authorizing; 25 2828D, by Senator Flanagan, an act

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(518) 371-8910 1 to amend the Environmental Conservation Law; 2 2936, by Senator Little, an act to 3 grant Richard F. Kelly; 4 3638, by Senator Robach, an act to 5 amend Chapter 657 of the Laws of 2002; 6 4658, by Senator Padavan, an act to 7 amend the Administrative Code of the City of 8 New York; 9 5273, by Senator Winner, an act to 10 amend the Highway Law; 11 5285, by Senator Wright, an act to 12 amend the Tax Law; 13 5441, by Senator Nozzolio, an act 14 to amend the Penal Law; 15 5471B, by Senator Bonacic, an act 16 to amend Chapter 172 of the Laws of 2002; 17 5540A, by Senator Volker, an act to 18 amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law; 19 5543A, by Senator Alesi, an act to 20 amend the Correction Law; 21 5614, by Senator Wright, an act to 22 amend the Energy Law; 23 5640, by Senator Nozzolio, an act 24 to amend the Correction Law; 25 5652, by Senator Spano, an act to

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(518) 371-8910 1 amend Chapter 57 of the Laws of 2005; 2 5689, by Senator Little, an act to 3 amend the Correction Law; 4 5694, by Senator Padavan, an act to 5 amend the General City Law; 6 5698, by Senator Fuschillo, an act 7 to amend the Penal Law; 8 5713, by Senator LaValle, an act to 9 amend the Public Health Law; 10 5716, by Senator Robach, an act to 11 amend the Education Law; 12 5722, by Senator Larkin, an act to 13 amend the Civil Service Law; 14 5727, by Senator DeFrancisco, an 15 act in relation to the initial phase of 16 reconstruction; 17 5742, by Senator Winner, an act to 18 amend the Agriculture and Markets Law; 19 5747, by Senator Spano, an act to 20 amend the Public Authorities Law; 21 5751, by Senator Meier, an act to 22 amend the Highway Law; 23 5753A, by Senator Skelos, an act to 24 amend the Correction Law; 25 5756, by Senator Golden, an act to

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(518) 371-8910 1 amend the Elder Law; 2 5760, by Senator Young, an act to 3 amend the Highway Law; 4 5771, by Senator Spano, an act to 5 amend the Arts and Cultural Affairs Law; 6 5788, by Senator Golden, an act to 7 amend the Tax Law; 8 5799, by Senator Marcellino, an act 9 to amend the Military Law; 10 5800, by Senator Young, an act to 11 amend the Highway Law; 12 And Senate Print 5887, by Senator 13 Flanagan, an act to amend the Labor Law. 14 All bills ordered direct to third 15 reading. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Senator 17 Fuschillo. 18 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Move to 19 accept the report of the Rules Committee. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: All 21 those in favor of accepting the report of 22 Rules Committee signify by saying aye. 23 (Response of "Aye.") 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Those 25 opposed, nay.

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(518) 371-8910 1 (No response.) 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 3 report of the Rules Committee is accepted by a 4 wide margin. 5 Senator Fuschillo. 6 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. 7 President, is there any other business at the 8 desk? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: No, 10 there is not. 11 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: If we could 12 return to motions and resolutions and 13 recognize Senator Robach. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: Motions 15 and resolutions. 16 Senator Robach. 17 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes, Mr. 18 President. On behalf of Senator Spano, on 19 page 25, I offer the following amendments to 20 Calendar Number 774, Senate Print Number 21 3906A, and ask that the said bill retain its 22 place on Third Reading Calendar. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: The 24 amendments are received and adopted, and the 25 bill will retain its place on the order of

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(518) 371-8910 1 third reading. 2 Senator Fuschillo. 3 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. 4 President, I'd like to announce that there 5 will be a Majority conference tomorrow morning 6 at 10:30 a.m. in the Majority Conference Room. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: There 8 will be a 10:30 a.m. Majority conference 9 tomorrow morning. 10 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I'd like 11 to thank Senator Fuschillo for his fine work 12 here today. 13 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you, 14 Senator. 15 Mr. President, is there any other 16 housekeeping at the desk? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: No, 18 there is not. 19 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Any members 20 have any other business that they'd like to 21 discuss here? 22 Mr. President, there being no 23 further business to come before the Senate, I 24 move we adjourn until Wednesday, June 22nd, at 25 11:00 a.m.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MEIER: On 2 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until 3 Wednesday, June 22nd, at 11:00 a.m. 4 (Whereupon, at 7:32 p.m., the 5 Senate adjourned.) 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

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(518) 371-8910