Tuesday, January 17, 2006

1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE 2 3 4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 January 17, 2006 11 3:16 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 LT. GOVERNOR MARY O. DONOHUE, President 19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24 25

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will 2 please come to order. 3 I ask everyone present to please 4 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of 5 Allegiance. 6 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 7 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 8 THE PRESIDENT: In the absence of 9 clergy, may we bow our heads in a moment of 10 silence, please. 11 (Whereupon, the assemblage 12 respected a moment of silence.) 13 THE PRESIDENT: Reading of the 14 Journal. 15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 16 Sunday, January 15, the Senate met pursuant to 17 adjournment. The Journal of Saturday, 18 January 14, was read and approved. On motion, 19 Senate adjourned. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Without 21 objection, the Journal stands approved as 22 read. 23 Presentation of petitions. 24 Messages from the Assembly. 25 Messages from the Governor.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Reports of standing committees. 2 Reports of select committees. 3 Communications and reports from 4 state officers. 5 Motions and resolutions. 6 Senator Robach. 7 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes, Madam 8 President. I move that the following bills be 9 discharged from their respective committees 10 and be recommitted with instructions to strike 11 the enacting clause: Senate Bill Number 4736, 12 please. 13 THE PRESIDENT: So ordered, 14 Senator Robach. 15 Senator Skelos. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 17 if we could go to the noncontroversial reading 18 of the calendar. 19 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 20 will read. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 32, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 6325, an 23 act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law and 24 others. 25 SENATOR GONZALEZ: Lay it aside.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 2 aside. 3 Senator Skelos, that completes the 4 noncontroversial reading of the calendar. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Time flies when 6 you're having fun. But if we could now go to 7 the controversial reading of the calendar. 8 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 9 will again read. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 32, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 6325, an 12 act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law, the 13 Correction Law, the Criminal Procedure Law, 14 the Executive Law and the Family Court Act. 15 SENATOR GONZALEZ: Explanation. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Volker, 17 an explanation has been requested. 18 SENATOR VOLKER: Madam President, 19 this is -- I'm trying to think about how many 20 years -- initially this bill or a bill, a very 21 similar bill was introduced by me in 1994 22 after the Kansas vs. Crane decision in the 23 Supreme Court. What this bill provides for, 24 and we have passed a similar bill on many 25 occasions, is for civil commitment of sexually

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(518) 371-8910 1 violent predators. 2 Now, this bill is the Governor's 3 program bill for 2006. And the reason I 4 mention that is the bill that we passed last 5 year, in 2005, was extremely similar except 6 that we've had some additions and corrections, 7 so to speak. 8 In fact, I noticed that one of the 9 oppositions to this bill is the Coalition for 10 the Homeless. I think the Coalition for the 11 Homeless really doesn't understand this bill, 12 as a lot of people don't, very honestly. In 13 fact, one of the things that we did this year 14 was to strike out a reference in the bill to 15 hospitalized patients. And really that was 16 talking about people who either were in jail 17 or were in a hospital situation in jail. 18 Because a lot of the mental health people 19 thought that that meant that we might be 20 putting sexually violent predators in local 21 hospitals. Well, of course, that was never 22 the intention. 23 The process that's involved here, 24 by the way -- and I read in the paper a lot of 25 people say, well, it's unconstitutional. No,

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(518) 371-8910 1 it's not. The process is constitutional. 2 It's been challenged several times. The 3 Kansas law has been upheld twice. In several 4 other states they have a very similar process. 5 The process involves psychiatrists, 6 it involves -- the Attorney General is the 7 precipitator. He gets the notice of who is a 8 potentially sexually violent predator that is 9 somebody who's about to leave jail. 10 One of the things I think that has 11 happened here is that the Governor, using 12 Article 9 of the Mental Hygiene Law, has 13 actually kept in people who are considered 14 mentally ill and has tried to use the Mental 15 Hygiene Law. The only problem with that is it 16 does not provide, in fact, the process and the 17 protections that are involved in this bill. 18 This bill provides all sorts of 19 protections, including counsel, psychiatric 20 evaluations by the person involved, review 21 every year of a person's status. 22 And what just happened with the 23 Governor was to me very, very important. And 24 I've spoken on this issue on a national -- in 25 national conferences. One of the arguments

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(518) 371-8910 1 against it is that we just do not have enough 2 mental health counseling and that we just do 3 not have the ability to deal with some of 4 these people. 5 The way you do it, and the only way 6 you're really going to deal with sexually 7 violent predators to try to deal with their 8 problem, is to spend a lot of money. And I'm 9 the first to say that. In fact, the New York 10 Times, in its usual candid style, was 11 criticizing civil commitment by saying it's 12 just too expensive, sort of. 13 Well, the Governor of this state 14 has ponied up. He's put up $192 million, 15 $130 million for a facility at Pharsalia, 16 which is now a minimum facility, and which is 17 part of the tremendous drop in inmates. 18 By the way, I noticed the 19 Governor's press release said that there's 20 63,100 inmates in the system. That was last 21 week. This week there are under 63,000 for 22 the first time. The New York corrections 23 system has gone from 74,000-plus to now 62,900 24 and something. The reason that's significant 25 is we're the only prison system in the country

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(518) 371-8910 1 that has a falling inmate rate and a falling 2 crime rate at the same time. I only mention 3 that because I think that's important. 4 My own personal opinion has been 5 for some time that what we should do in 6 New York is make ourselves a model for the 7 rest of the country in dealing with sexual 8 predators. And what the Governor has proposed 9 is just that. We're talking about a lot of 10 money and a lot of employees who are targeting 11 these people. In other words, once this whole 12 system is in place, we probably will be able, 13 in New York, to look at sexual predators and 14 their problems and try to deal with them in a 15 way in which no state in the union has been 16 able or willing to do. And that is critically 17 important, I think, if we're going to deal 18 with this kind of issue. 19 (Electronic noise interruption.) 20 SENATOR VOLKER: I just want to 21 point out something -- am I being bugged? 22 Anyways, I just want to show that I 23 have here the Level 3 sexual predators from my 24 district. This is the compilation of the 25 Level 3 sexual predators. One of them lives

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(518) 371-8910 1 within about three blocks of me. 2 The reason I mention this is -- and 3 of course Senator Dean Skelos here has been 4 working on Megan's Law, and we're very hopeful 5 that he can come to an agreement on that 6 extension. But the reason this is significant 7 is that some of these people are going to end 8 up in a situation where they may well need 9 civil commitment. 10 You know, where I figured out, by 11 the way, that this issue, if you look at the 12 development of the sexual predator issue, I 13 first found out when a young Senator from 14 Harlem, whose father was very close to me and 15 my father, asked me to go down to Harlem and 16 do a hearing on sexual predators. He shall 17 remain nameless, but I can only say that he 18 sits right in front of me now as the Minority 19 Leader. He asked me to do a hearing as part 20 of a series of hearings across the state. 21 And we went to Harlem and we sat 22 there and listened to people talk about abuse, 23 mostly children, but also abuse of women and 24 men. We had a women-hating psychologist, man, 25 and right after him we had a woman-hating

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(518) 371-8910 1 psychologist -- or a man-hating psychologist, 2 woman. I mean, it was the most incredible 3 hearing we had ever had. I remember there 4 were 32 witnesses. And Senator Paterson said 5 to me, "You know, we need psychologists right 6 now ourselves," after that was done. 7 And the reason I say that was 8 significant is you must remember society only 9 very, very recently has realized how serious 10 this problem is. We still haven't come to 11 grips, for instance, with clergy abuse. We 12 think it's the Catholic Church. We all know 13 that's not true. All the major religions have 14 a problem with it. We all know that, but no 15 one has really got into it yet. It's a very 16 serious problem that has been coming for 17 probably 30, 40 years. 18 But the civil commitment issue is 19 something -- we're talking about people, 20 mostly people that attack young children. 21 They're very sick people. This bill will 22 allow us a process -- not violation of civil 23 rights or anything of that nature -- a process 24 to be able to keep people in a place where 25 mental hygiene people can review them on a

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(518) 371-8910 1 regular basis and give them intensive 2 treatment that may lead to a breakthrough in 3 finding out how to deal with people who are 4 sexually violent predators. Because we're not 5 succeeding. There is no question we're not 6 succeeding well at all. 7 There's no question that this 8 issue, even though it involves a comparatively 9 small number of people -- and I keep this in 10 mind, obviously the violent people in this 11 state are much greater. But the numbers of 12 people who are being sexually abused is 13 extremely frightening. 14 And I will guarantee you this, that 15 we are and we have been a leader in criminal 16 justice. And whatever you can say about 17 George Pataki, he has been an enormous leader 18 in criminal justice. We have probably the 19 most respected criminal justice system in the 20 nation right now. We don't realize it because 21 of course the media in this state doesn't like 22 us and they don't want to tell that there's 23 anything good going on in New York. But 24 that's just the way it is. The rest of the 25 states look at us and they marvel.

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(518) 371-8910 1 I would hope that this mental 2 hygiene criminal justice initiative that we're 3 doing here with the hospital, with the mental 4 health money that we're setting up and so 5 forth, will become a model for the country and 6 that we will learn how to deal with people who 7 are sexually violent predators so that we can 8 find some cure for it but, in the meantime, 9 keep them where they belong, which is in a 10 place where they can't hurt anyone else. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Duane. 12 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Madam 13 President. If the sponsor would yield, 14 please. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Volker, 16 will you yield for a question? 17 SENATOR VOLKER: Oh, sure. I'm 18 sorry. I apologize. Yes. 19 THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed, 20 Senator Duane. 21 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Madam 22 President. 23 Does the bill allow for the civil 24 commitment of juveniles? 25 SENATOR VOLKER: The bill is not

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(518) 371-8910 1 specifically set up to allow for civil 2 commitment of juveniles. However, we do have 3 a process, as you know, for reviewing 4 juveniles. But it does not specifically deal 5 with the issue of juveniles. 6 What you mean by "juveniles" is 7 juvenile offenders? 8 SENATOR DUANE: Yes. 9 SENATOR VOLKER: No, it does not. 10 SENATOR DUANE: However, they 11 could be -- a juvenile offender, as opposed to 12 a youthful offender, could be committed under 13 this bill? 14 SENATOR VOLKER: Could be. But 15 you must -- I think, you know, like anything 16 else, you'd have to be an awfully bad 17 offender. It's possible it could happen, but 18 very unlikely. 19 The history, by the way, of civil 20 commitment is you really are looking for the 21 worst of the worst. Of course, we have 22 14-year-olds -- one 14-year-old murdered, 23 what, 16 people, I believe, at one time in 24 New York City and brought on the law that was 25 changed to lower some of the ages. So I think

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(518) 371-8910 1 we have to realize that some young people are 2 probably worse than all the adults put 3 together. But it's a rare occasion. 4 SENATOR DUANE: But youthful and 5 juvenile, I should say, as well as. 6 SENATOR VOLKER: Yeah. I don't 7 believe in Kansas that any -- I'm not aware 8 that anybody -- in fact, I'm not aware of 9 anywhere in the country that any juvenile has 10 been committed, civilly committed. 11 And I don't expect that's going to 12 happen in New York unless you have somebody 13 that's so dangerous -- and, by the way, that 14 could happen now. I mean, under Article 9 of 15 the Mental Health Law, technically speaking, 16 if a person is that mentally ill, even a 17 juvenile could be held even now in a mental 18 facility. They wouldn't be held in a prison, 19 but in a mental facility. 20 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 21 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue 22 to yield. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 24 you. Senator Volker, do you continue to 25 yield?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes, I certainly 2 do. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 4 you. The sponsor continues to yield. 5 SENATOR DUANE: Thank heavens the 6 switch was to another "Madam." 7 But I'm going to actually move on. 8 What are the requirements -- if a person who's 9 incarcerated is being considered for 10 commitment, what are the -- what's the 11 notification to that person? 12 SENATOR VOLKER: Well, what 13 happens is that 120 days before the release, 14 the Attorney General is to be notified that 15 this person is considered, by the Correction 16 Department and Mental Health or whatever, to 17 be a dangerous person. You then set up a 18 process that goes on for some time. You have 19 psychiatrists, you have a multidisciplinary 20 group that gets together. 21 Go ahead. 22 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 23 Madam President, just for clarification, I 24 understand that the notification to the 25 Attorney General is 120 days before.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. Right. 2 SENATOR DUANE: But I'm 3 wondering, when is the person who's being 4 considered notified? 5 SENATOR VOLKER: Well, as soon as 6 that person is targeted -- that person, by the 7 way, now has the right to counsel. That 8 person has the right to have a psychiatrist of 9 his own choosing review his case. 10 The protections, the due process 11 ability is in this bill. And there is no way 12 that a person could be civilly committed 13 without a thorough review. He is entitled to 14 a jury trial if he so chooses. And as I say, 15 he's entitled to his own psychiatrist and his 16 own counsel. 17 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 18 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue 19 to yield. 20 How is the person notified? What 21 is the process by which that person would 22 receive word that they are being considered? 23 SENATOR VOLKER: Well, I would 24 assume that it would traditionally be the 25 Attorney General, who is in charge of the

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(518) 371-8910 1 whole proceeding, would notify this person and 2 obviously notify -- make the formal 3 notification to this person. And he would 4 then be apprised of his right to counsel and 5 would be apprised of his right to a 6 psychiatrist. 7 Remember that, in the meantime, the 8 multidisciplinary group or whatever, Mental 9 Health and all the rest of them, have the 10 right to review him and actually have a 11 psychiatrist review him. He can then, as I 12 said, have his own psychiatrist. 13 He then would go before a judge and 14 they would advise him of all his rights, and 15 he can then move on to do what he wants to do. 16 He can ask for a jury trial, he can do 17 whatever he wants. 18 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 19 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue 20 to yield. 21 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. Yes. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 23 you. Senator Volker, do you continue to 24 yield? 25 SENATOR VOLKER: Certainly.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 2 you. The Senator yields. 3 SENATOR DUANE: I'm actually 4 going to ask this question sort of as a -- to 5 see if it's factual. 6 A person could be incarcerated and 7 the day after, potentially, the review could 8 begin even if that person was not even close 9 to their release point; is that correct? 10 SENATOR VOLKER: No, that's 11 incorrect. It's incorrect because the only 12 way you would do it is if the person was 13 within 120 days of his release. 14 SENATOR DUANE: So through you, 15 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue 16 to yield. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 18 you. Senator Volker, do you continue to 19 yield? 20 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 22 sponsor yields. 23 SENATOR DUANE: So the sponsor is 24 saying that for everybody, the whole thing 25 starts for the incarcerated person and for the

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(518) 371-8910 1 people who will be preparing to make a 2 decision about what to do, for everybody it's 3 120 days; nothing happens before that? 4 SENATOR VOLKER: You see -- 5 probably could. I guess the issue really is, 6 why would you do it? I mean, if they're 7 already in a mental facility -- and by the 8 way, they could be in a mental facility 9 also -- or in a correction facility, what 10 drives the process is the possibility that the 11 person is going to get out. 12 Now -- so I would suppose you could 13 do it beforehand. But you would -- I guess 14 you would ask why would you do it. Unless the 15 person exhibits such problems -- and one of 16 the issues that has been brought up is that we 17 do have some pedophiles and some people that 18 are in the prison system now that could be, 19 for instance, reviewed before their sentence 20 is up to determine where to put them. But 21 that could be technically done now. 22 It's just that, interestingly 23 enough, this would possibly provide more 24 rights to those people -- in other words, they 25 couldn't be put in this facility until they

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(518) 371-8910 1 went through a process. 2 In other words, you've got 3 somebody, for instance, who's in -- well, 4 let's say Attica. I'm just using that for 5 a -- and that person is a dangerous pedophile 6 and he creates a problem for the prison 7 system. One of the interesting issues is if 8 you were going to put him at this facility in 9 Pharsalia, for instance, I would assume the 10 only way you could do that would be to go 11 through a process of some kind to make sure 12 that that person would have to go there. 13 Because one of the things, Tom, 14 that's important here is -- we have one 15 facility, for instance, right now for just 16 DWIs. Which I happen to -- I had a part in 17 doing, because I thought it was a great idea 18 to keep them isolated. One of the things we 19 want to do with these people that are sexually 20 violent predators is give them the best 21 treatment we can but also isolate them, 22 because they're very dangerous people. And 23 they could be dangerous even to the inmate 24 population, which is something that I think 25 some people never think about.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DUANE: The committee 2 that reviews the petitions for commitment, is 3 there a requirement that any of the members of 4 that committee have expertise in mental 5 health? 6 SENATOR VOLKER: The 7 multidisciplinary team is the commissioners of 8 correctional services, mental health, and 9 anybody that is -- and mental retardation. 10 Because, remember, mental retardation is also 11 involved here. 12 Quite clearly, these people have to 13 be expert in the mental health area, which is, 14 you know, the -- what you're doing here is 15 when you say "the commissioner," obviously you 16 mean the department itself has their people 17 there to review these people and be part of 18 this team that reviews the people that are 19 going for civil commitment. 20 SENATOR DUANE: And through you, 21 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue 22 to yield. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 24 you. Senator Volker, do you continue to 25 yield?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR VOLKER: I do, yes. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 3 you. The Senator yields. 4 SENATOR DUANE: Where would I 5 find the language in the bill about the 6 expertise in mental health for the reviewing 7 committee? 8 SENATOR VOLKER: Well, since you 9 have the people from Mental Health, when you 10 say "expertise," the Department of Mental 11 Health and the Department of Mental 12 Retardation are the people that are the 13 experts in the field. 14 And remember, you're also in a 15 situation where you're going to have 16 psychiatrists involved, you're going to 17 have -- in fact, the person himself is 18 entitled to have his own psychiatrist. 19 And presumably an attorney could 20 ask for its own -- the own expert, that is, 21 the person's -- an expert to review himself. 22 Because the jury trial is a situation where 23 the attorney could ask for his own experts, if 24 he wished, to talk about this person's status. 25 So that is really inherent in the bill itself.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DUANE: I guess the -- 2 through you, Madam President, if the sponsor 3 would continue to yield. 4 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 5 SENATOR DUANE: Is it not 6 possible that you could have, for lack of a 7 better term, a civilian from the department as 8 opposed to a professional from the department? 9 SENATOR VOLKER: The answer to 10 that is no. I think the problem is, what's 11 the difference? I mean, remember what we're 12 doing here -- wait a minute, Tom. You know, I 13 know what you're saying. You're assuming that 14 this is some sort of a process on a local 15 level. 16 This is a process involving some of 17 the -- the biggest experts we have in the 18 field are going to be involved in this. And 19 you're going to have an attorney who could 20 protest, obviously, if the people involved are 21 not the people that should be reviewing these 22 people. 23 I mean, the whole idea of this is 24 to protect society at the same time you're 25 protecting the people themselves who are

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(518) 371-8910 1 involved here. And, you know, so you don't 2 have to say, hey -- at least it doesn't seem 3 to me -- tell mental hygiene they got to have 4 good people. 5 Well, they better have good people. 6 First of all, the attorney is going to make 7 sure that they -- that he knows if they don't 8 have good people, or the person. And the 9 psychiatrist for the individuals involved is 10 going to do that. 11 I mean, this is not a -- this is 12 not a process taken lightly. This is a very 13 serious process. So the answer is, quite 14 obviously, this is intended to make sure that 15 the person gets every possible consideration 16 when you're dealing with people who are going 17 to be kept for a long period of time. 18 SENATOR DUANE: And through you, 19 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue 20 to yield. 21 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 23 you. Senator Volker, do you yield? 24 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes, I do. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator yields. 2 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Madam 3 President. 4 And I want to preface my next 5 question by saying that I absolutely agree 6 with the sponsor and know his commitment to 7 this issue and the seriousness with which he 8 and other members of his conference and, 9 frankly, our conference as well have 10 approached this. 11 But it's a new area; that's why I'm 12 asking such specific -- and I apologize in 13 advance for how many questions, but I just 14 want to clarify as much as possible. 15 The issue the sponsor raised about 16 that it's a good thing to have a jury trial is 17 something that I wanted to ask why that is a 18 good thing, instead of having the person ask 19 to see a judge, who might have more experience 20 in the issue than lay -- well, I shouldn't say 21 laypeople, but potentially laypeople on a 22 jury. Why are they prohibited from having 23 that choice? 24 SENATOR VOLKER: I am not aware 25 that they are prohibited.

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(518) 371-8910 1 By the way, the answer, the 2 multidisciplinary panel and so forth, is on 3 page 7 of the bill. And it relates to the 4 process that is taken -- the person has a 5 right to a jury trial. He will go before a 6 judge. That's assumed. No one is saying that 7 he has to have a jury trial. But he has the 8 right to go before a judge. 9 And if you look on page 7 and 10 page 8, you'll see that there's a prosecutor 11 review committee, there's all sorts of 12 standards here that are set up to determine 13 probable cause and to determine whether the 14 person should then be reviewed to be able to 15 be determined whether that person -- in fact, 16 if you see 10(d), I'm just looking here, the 17 jury or the court, if a jury is waived, shall 18 determine beyond a reasonable doubt whether 19 the respondent is a sexually violent predator, 20 and so forth and so forth. 21 That's the applicable section. I 22 apologize, I didn't -- 23 SENATOR DUANE: And through you, 24 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue 25 to yield.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR VOLKER: I do, yes. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 3 Volker yields. 4 SENATOR DUANE: When New York 5 State had a death penalty in effect, we had a 6 special group of attorneys whose 7 responsibility it was to be involved in the 8 defense of those who were eligible to be given 9 the death penalty. 10 And if I argued that this issue 11 almost rises to the level of the death 12 penalty -- I know it doesn't quite go there, 13 but if it almost rises to that level, why 14 isn't there a requirement that the appointed 15 counsel have that kind of training, expertise 16 in this field? 17 SENATOR VOLKER: Well, first of 18 all, Mental Health has a series of attorneys 19 who deal in this sort of thing. 20 The problem that you've got to 21 realize here is you're not going to have 22 anything close to the number of people that is 23 involved with the death penalty and the issues 24 that are involved there. And the protections 25 that are in this bill clearly are far greater

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(518) 371-8910 1 than anything that is involved in jury trials 2 and so forth involving normal criminal 3 proceedings. 4 You have the Correction Department 5 and the Mental Health Department involved 6 here, the people who treat people plus the 7 people that incarcerate them. You have the 8 attorney general involved. You've got all 9 sorts of different protections involved, which 10 frankly you don't have -- I suppose you have 11 local district attorneys and so forth. This 12 process is a different kind of process than 13 with criminal justice issues, of course. 14 And the appeal is already internal; 15 that is, the probable cause hearing and that 16 sort of thing. So all the evidence is there. 17 And you have psychiatrists on both sides. 18 I guess I have trouble -- the 19 attorney's job really is to make sure that the 20 person simply gets the correct procedures. 21 And, you know, it seems to me that there's 22 hardly any other area of the law where we 23 provide as many protections as we do here. 24 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 25 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

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(518) 371-8910 1 to yield. 2 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure. Yes. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 4 you. Senator Volker yields. 5 SENATOR DUANE: When I went 6 through the bill, I didn't see training 7 anywhere, whether it was judges or appointed 8 counsel. And so I'm just trying to pin down 9 whether there is any requirement for any 10 specific training for anyone who might be 11 involved in this civil commitment. 12 SENATOR VOLKER: I guess I'm not 13 sure what kind of training we would require. 14 Remember, Senator, we're in -- 15 sexual predator treatment, like so much in 16 mental health today, is sort of in its 17 infancy. One of the problems, by the way, 18 with equating physical and mental health is 19 that we -- we do the best we can in mental 20 health. 21 And the professionals are in the 22 Office of Mental Health and the Office of 23 Mental Retardation. Those professionals are 24 probably better than anybody outside the 25 agencies. How you would -- the people who

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(518) 371-8910 1 would train these people would be the same 2 people who are dealing with these sexual 3 predators. So I'm not exactly sure what kind 4 of training you could do. 5 And the lawyers that are used in 6 this are generally lawyers who do mental 7 health defense and all that anyways. Because 8 they're people who would want to, and are paid 9 for, to do this sort of thing. Remember, the 10 person has the right -- unless he's 11 independently wealthy, which is a little bit 12 rare -- the person has the right to the state 13 paying for these lawyers. 14 So the people that would do this 15 would obviously be people who were involved in 16 mental health cases and in the expertise 17 that's involved here. 18 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 19 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue 20 to yield. 21 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 23 you. Senator Volker does yield. 24 SENATOR DUANE: Would I find 25 anywhere in the bill a requirement for an

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(518) 371-8910 1 independent psychiatric evaluation of the 2 respondent? 3 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes, absolutely. 4 That's in the bill. It says that the person 5 has the right to his own psychiatrist. And 6 it's specifically in the bill -- I can't 7 identify exactly where it is, but that's in 8 the bill ever since, by the way, we first 9 introduced it back in 1994. And one year I 10 passed three different civil commitment bills. 11 And I can assure you that the 12 requirement of a psychiatrist of your choice 13 is in this bill, as it's been in all the 14 bills. 15 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 16 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue 17 to yield. 18 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 20 you. Senator Volker yields. 21 SENATOR DUANE: Shockingly, when 22 I asked that question, I actually didn't mean 23 that the respondent's psychiatrist would be 24 independent. I would assume they would have 25 the agenda of wanting to be for the

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(518) 371-8910 1 respondent, and the psychiatrist for the other 2 side would want to be against the respondent. 3 I'm wondering if there is an 4 independent independent person in the middle 5 that could take each side with a grain of 6 salt. 7 SENATOR VOLKER: The requirement 8 is that the attorney general and the 9 multidisciplinary people and so forth have the 10 right and the duty to submit a psychiatric 11 evaluation. The other side then has the right 12 to their own psychiatric -- the person of 13 their choosing, they can be examined. 14 That really is -- I suppose if 15 there was some conflict, the attorney could 16 probably ask for another psychiatric 17 evaluation. But it seems if you had 18 psychiatric evaluations from the proponents 19 and the opponents, or whatever you could say, 20 it would seem to be enough. But I would 21 suppose there's nothing in here that says you 22 can't have a third party, but it only provides 23 for two psychiatric examiners. 24 SENATOR DUANE: And through you, 25 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue

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(518) 371-8910 1 to yield. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 3 you. Senator Volker, do you continue to 4 yield? 5 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure. Yes. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Yes. 7 SENATOR DUANE: Is there a 8 standard of care for the treatment of those 9 who are committed? 10 SENATOR VOLKER: This is a mental 11 health facility and basically a mental health 12 statute. Which, by the way, this is why it 13 didn't come out of my committee, because it 14 came out of Mental Health. Because the 15 facility that the Governor is putting the 16 money up for, although it is presently a 17 correction facility, it will really be run by 18 Mental Hygiene. 19 And anyone who is committed to the 20 care of mental health people has a standard of 21 care that is required. And as the former 22 chairman of Mental Health to my right reminds 23 me -- and by the way, Frank Padavan and I are 24 the only two people that were on the Mental 25 Health Committee since its inception, if I

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(518) 371-8910 1 remember right, way back when -- there is a 2 Mental Health Bill of Rights, there's all 3 sorts of protections, a quality of care 4 commission, as the creator of that reminds me, 5 to look at these kind of things. 6 And I can assure you one of the 7 thing that the quality of care commission will 8 probably be -- once this is operating, they'll 9 be looking at this -- these, because this is 10 going to be -- admittedly, this is breaking 11 new ground. And I would be willing to bet any 12 money that the quality of care commission is 13 going to be reviewing these facilities on a 14 regular basis. 15 SENATOR DUANE: And through you, 16 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue 17 to yield. 18 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. Sure. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 20 you. The Senator yields. 21 SENATOR DUANE: On that issue of 22 the standards of care, is the parallel similar 23 to the Department of Corrections has oversight 24 over the health facilities in correctional 25 facilities, similarly the Office of Mental

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(518) 371-8910 1 Health would have oversight over its mental 2 health facilities? 3 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. Yes. 4 The way this -- as I understand the 5 way this operates, the facility is going to be 6 built by separate money. And it's built on a 7 corrections site. But the actual operation of 8 the facility is going to be done by Mental 9 Health and by mental health professionals. 10 The reason this is going to be 11 expensive is because we are going to have a 12 lot of intensive care at these facilities -- 13 and the Governor well knows that -- that this 14 is going to be and hopefully will be a class 15 setup that will deal with these people in a 16 way that no other state in the union has ever 17 done. 18 SENATOR DUANE: And through you, 19 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue 20 to yield. 21 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. I do. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 23 you. The Senator yields. 24 SENATOR DUANE: Is there 25 different grades of the environment, or is

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(518) 371-8910 1 everyone thrown into the same -- like within 2 the facility, will there be less dangerous, 3 more dangerous, or will everyone just be 4 considered equally dangerous? 5 SENATOR VOLKER: Well, you know, 6 at this point, like anything else, I think, 7 these are people that are considered to be 8 sexually violent predators. And as to their 9 treatment in the facility, there may well be a 10 grade depending on how serious the offenders 11 are. But initially they'll all be confined, 12 they'll all have -- in one facility. 13 Keep in mind that we're separating 14 the sexually violent predators who are civil 15 committees, so to speak, they're separate from 16 anybody else. There's no other people that 17 are going to be in this facility but these 18 people. And they will have the best 19 treatment. 20 And obviously, if you have somebody 21 that's going to be violent or potentially 22 violent, you're probably going to have more 23 restrictions on those kinds of people because 24 they could be dangerous to everyone else also. 25 So I would assume that there will

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(518) 371-8910 1 be grades set up. But at this point it's a 2 matter of common sense as to what you're going 3 to do in this facility. 4 SENATOR DUANE: And through you, 5 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue 6 to yield. 7 SENATOR VOLKER: Sure. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 9 you. The sponsor yields. 10 SENATOR DUANE: As part of this 11 bill, I don't see that there's any kind of 12 additional resources or commitment to 13 providing treatment for those inmates who are 14 presently incarcerated. 15 Is there some kind of companion 16 legislation or budget item which would provide 17 for additional mental health services and 18 treatment for the -- for those who are -- for 19 sex offenders? 20 SENATOR VOLKER: The answer to 21 that is yes. 22 The Governor, in fact -- I'm just 23 looking for it here. Of the $192 million that 24 the Governor proposed, $130 million is for the 25 actual facility. The rest of the money is to

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(518) 371-8910 1 provide for beefing up facilities in the 2 meantime and to keep people separated and to 3 provide additional employees for both OMRDD 4 and Mental Health. 5 That amounts to, let's see -- 6 35 million will be made available for 7 renovation of current OMH facilities to meet 8 the short-term needs, and 27 million in new 9 operating for OMH in connection with the 10 treating and housing of these people while the 11 new facility is being built. 12 So these people will be separated. 13 In the meantime, keep in mind, of course, that 14 this process will take a little bit to get up 15 and running anyways, so that there won't be a 16 lot of people that are going to be involved 17 here initially. 18 So the Governor is providing 35 and 19 27, which I think is $62 million in additional 20 money to deal with these people initially 21 until the new facility is up and running. 22 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 23 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue 24 to yield. 25 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 2 you. The Senator yields. 3 SENATOR DUANE: So the new money 4 is specifically -- the new treatment money is 5 specifically for those who are, for lack of a 6 better expression, on the road to being 7 civilly confined? 8 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. These are 9 for people who are going to be or could be 10 civilly confined. 11 The idea is this is entirely 12 separate money. One of the problems OMH was 13 concerned about is that they would have been 14 asked, with their present budget, to deal with 15 some of these people. And the Governor has 16 committed that in his budget bill -- in fact, 17 there's a budget bill that has this language 18 in it -- that the Governor will provide the 19 money to handle these people in the meantime 20 until the new facility is up and running. 21 SENATOR DUANE: And through you, 22 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue 23 to yield. 24 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank

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(518) 371-8910 1 you. The Senator continues to yield. 2 SENATOR DUANE: The other states 3 that do this, have a similar civil commitment 4 law are Kansas and Washington State; is that 5 correct? 6 SENATOR VOLKER: Yeah, I think 7 there's one other that's tripping in. My 8 counsel tells me there's a couple more too. 9 But the ones that have been operating are 10 Kansas and Washington State, because those 11 were the oldest pieces of legislation 12 involved. 13 SENATOR DUANE: And through you, 14 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue 15 to yield. 16 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes, I yield. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 18 you. The Senator continues to yield. 19 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you. Has 20 anyone ever -- well, I guess maybe there's two 21 or three that have been released from Kansas. 22 SENATOR VOLKER: Yes. 23 SENATOR DUANE: Any from 24 Washington? 25 SENATOR VOLKER: I really don't

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(518) 371-8910 1 know. There's not a lot of people, if I'm not 2 mistaken, in Washington. 3 And Kansas is -- the story in the 4 New York Times told about how some Kansas 5 legislators were complaining because it was 6 costing them too much. Of course, you have to 7 keep in mind the whole Kansas correction 8 budget is one facility -- 9 SENATOR DUANE: I just want to 10 correct something. It's actually, I think, 11 Kansas, no one has gotten out. Washington 12 State, maybe a couple of people have been 13 released. 14 SENATOR VOLKER: Yeah, could well 15 be. 16 I think the people that are in 17 Kansas -- this is just from what I 18 understand -- are really such people that they 19 really never envisioned they would ever get 20 out. I mean, they don't have a lot of people, 21 and I think they -- and, by the way, they 22 don't have the kind of treatment, I do not 23 believe, that we're talking about doing here. 24 So we would certainly be hopeful 25 that we could get some real progress in mental

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(518) 371-8910 1 health and sexual predators with the proper 2 treatment. 3 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you. Thank 4 you. 5 Madam President, on the bill. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 7 you. Senator Duane, on the bill. 8 SENATOR DUANE: My concerns about 9 this bill are several, frankly. And I would 10 like to get them on the record in the hope 11 that if there's more discussion about this 12 bill, in the unlikely case the Assembly 13 doesn't pass this exact bill, that some of 14 these things might get into the discussion 15 about another bill. 16 I'm very concerned about the 17 possibility of the commitment of young people, 18 youthful and juvenile offenders. And I would 19 like to see language which would differentiate 20 what would happen between adults, youthful and 21 juvenile offenders, because in my mind they're 22 all different -- although, in my mind, 23 juvenile and youthful are similar, but I 24 realize that's not how New York's law is 25 written.

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(518) 371-8910 1 I am very concerned about the 2 requirements for notifying someone who's being 3 considered for commitment. In a criminal 4 case, well, the police and even the DA can do 5 an investigation and then an indictment 6 happens and then the defendant knows they 7 better get an attorney. 8 However, this is not a criminal 9 situation, this is a mental health issue. And 10 it seems to me that everyone should be able to 11 start together, the person who's liable to be 12 civilly committed at the same time that the 13 state is thinking about civilly committing 14 them. It strikes me that it would be fairer 15 and level the playing field. 16 And I know that's an odd thing to 17 say when you're talking about who the people 18 are who are falling under this. But for lack 19 of better terminology, that's what I'm going 20 to call it, that both sides should have the 21 same notification to prepare. 22 I also think that we need to be 23 more specific about the training for those who 24 are going to adjudicate and those who are 25 going to, frankly, on both sides prosecute, if

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(518) 371-8910 1 you will, or fight for civil commitment and 2 those who are going to be on the side of the 3 person who is liable to be civilly committed. 4 And I also think that it may be 5 better to -- and I understand that it doesn't 6 say that you can't -- that it seems like a 7 good thing that you get a jury. But I'd like 8 to see language which makes it clearer that 9 you could just have it go before a judge. 10 Particularly if, at the end of the day, the 11 judge is the person who has more training in 12 this issue, similar to the special way that we 13 treat or we had been treating death penalty 14 cases. 15 And I think we have to put all of 16 this, the requirements about what happens when 17 someone is incarcerated as the preparations 18 are made for the civil commitment process -- 19 there is no public sympathy, obviously, for 20 sexual predators. And I think then we have -- 21 as legislators, even if it's distasteful, it 22 is our job to make sure that in an atmosphere 23 of no public sympathy at all, that the rights 24 of the person who's going into this process 25 are protected.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Because I don't think there would 2 be -- there will be very little public 3 scrutiny of making sure that that person has 4 adequate representation and defenses, 5 et cetera. So even if the public does know, 6 it's probably not helpful. So I think we have 7 to be extra careful to make sure that we build 8 in those protections, even if it seems like a 9 distasteful thing for us to do. 10 I also think that -- and again, 11 this is, you know, I'm not -- I wouldn't be a 12 hundred percent trustful of the psychiatrist 13 who is speaking for the respondent, and I 14 wouldn't be a hundred percent confident in the 15 psychiatrist for the agency. I'd like to have 16 an independent person. 17 And I also think that it puts the 18 psychiatrist -- it puts both psychiatrists on 19 both sides in a difficult position, because 20 neither one of them would like to be 21 responsible for allowing someone to be 22 released who could turn out to have not been 23 rehabilitated. 24 So having an independent person who 25 is more -- who could take the heat I think

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(518) 371-8910 1 would make for a fairer process, as well as 2 just having an independent evaluator to be 3 skeptical of what both sides have to say. 4 I also -- you know, the Department 5 of Corrections' health facilities are -- there 6 is no outside monitoring agency. In other 7 words, the Department of Health doesn't 8 monitor it. Corrections monitors its own 9 health facilities, which I think is very 10 problematic. And to have OMH monitor itself 11 on this I also think is problematic. 12 I think we always need to have an 13 outside monitor, an outside auditor, because 14 it's unlikely that an agency is going to find 15 a lot of fault with itself, certainly in a 16 public way. 17 And then just a few final points. 18 You know, it does look to me like Article 9 of 19 the Mental Health Law already has provisions 20 for the confinement of the dangerously 21 mentally ill. And even if that hasn't always 22 worked, it still does exist in the law. 23 In one of the visits I made to one 24 of our correctional facilities, I had the 25 opportunity -- it was at Green Haven -- I had

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(518) 371-8910 1 the opportunity to speak with the deputy 2 commissioner in charge of all addiction 3 services, and I asked him about if there was 4 treatment in the facilities, in addition to 5 alcohol and drug treatment, for sexual 6 addiction treatment. And tragically, that was 7 considered to be a big joke. 8 So if we think that these people 9 are addicted to violent sexual behavior or 10 sexual behavior towards children, if we 11 believe that these are behaviors similar to 12 addiction behaviors, then we need to provide 13 treatment in facilities as well. And that is 14 not happening. Maybe with the new money it 15 will happen, but I am skeptical about that. 16 Also -- and I'm sorry, I forget 17 whether it was Woodbourne or Sullivan -- I saw 18 a group of inmates who were developmentally 19 disabled, mentally retarded, who were 20 basically children with adult bodies. Some of 21 them had been convicted of inappropriate 22 sexual behavior because, frankly, they had no 23 one really to watch over them to make sure 24 that when they -- that they didn't sexually 25 act out inappropriately because they didn't

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(518) 371-8910 1 know any better. 2 They have no place to go. There's 3 no place to release them to. It was pretty 4 tragic to watch who were very -- who were 5 basically extremely gentle, mentally retarded 6 or developmentally disabled people be locked 7 up in their cells with no hope of ever being 8 released because there's no place for them to 9 go. 10 And I know that we're going to do 11 something in this legislative session on civil 12 confinement, but I still think that we have to 13 provide treatment. There is no data that says 14 that all sexual predators are incurable. In 15 fact, there's data that shows that some are. 16 And yet no difference is made in this bill 17 between that. 18 You know -- and I guess, finally -- 19 and again, I know we're going to do something 20 on civil confinement. I hope it's not this. 21 I hope it's a different bill, obviously. But 22 I think we need to keep in mind that 23 90 percent, maybe 95 percent of the sex 24 offenses that are perpetrated -- and I know 25 that, you know, one in the public eye is too

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(518) 371-8910 1 many. But all of the others are never 2 recorded, never treated. 3 I mean, for instance, we underfund 4 rape crisis centers. The most recent tragedy, 5 which, you know, I can barely get through the 6 articles in the paper about what happened in 7 Brooklyn -- there's nothing that we're doing 8 to prevent those things, only things to 9 prevent them from happening in the future. 10 And there's nothing, actually, that 11 would prevent -- there still isn't enough that 12 would prevent the recurrence, for instance, of 13 what happened to that little girl after the 14 first time that it happened. And I think that 15 that happens way too often. 16 And if we're going to do this, 17 which will take care of a small percentage of 18 people so that they won't reoffend, our work 19 has not even -- it's just the tiniest bit of 20 our work is accomplished. 21 Because all of those cases that are 22 not reported, all of those cases of, you know, 23 adults in the family, family friends, uncles, 24 people in positions of authority who 25 perpetrate these crimes against children, or

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(518) 371-8910 1 what happens in homes between married couples 2 or people who are living together, we're only 3 touching the tip of the iceberg with what 4 we're trying to do here. 5 And it's my hope that, even after 6 the public focus is off this legislation, when 7 we do pass something this session that we will 8 not forget to go back and take care of the 9 tremendous number, the exponentially larger 10 number of cases that we have done woefully 11 little to prevent. 12 Thank you, Madam President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 14 you, Senator Duane. 15 Is there any other Senator wishing 16 to be heard? 17 Senator Klein. 18 SENATOR KLEIN: On the bill, 19 Madam President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 21 you. On the bill. 22 SENATOR KLEIN: First, I'd like 23 to commend and congratulate Senator Volker for 24 his commitment to this very, very important 25 issue.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And I think it's certainly 2 appropriate that we're passing a civil 3 commitment bill today at the same time that 4 we're taking up Megan's Law. I have been 5 saying that for some time now, that over the 6 last ten years I think Megan's Law is giving 7 us sort of a false hope that we're truly 8 protected in our community. 9 And I think time and time again 10 what we're reading about is that we're 11 releasing Level 3 sexual predators after they 12 serve very long jail times, they register on 13 the Megan's Law registry, as they're required 14 to do under law, and that's it. But what 15 we're really doing is releasing ticking time 16 bombs into our community, waiting for them to 17 commit another crime. 18 Unfortunately, that's happened 19 several times in areas that I represent. 20 Earlier in the year, back in June, at the 21 Galleria Mall in White Plains, a young woman 22 named Connie Russo was murdered by a Level 3 23 sexual predator named Philip Grant. 24 Unfortunately, I think Mr. Grant has the 25 dubious distinction of sort of becoming the

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(518) 371-8910 1 poster boy for civil confinement. 2 Philip Grant was someone who served 3 25 years in prison. He was serving a prison 4 term for rape, a rape which he committed in 5 the Bronx. He served 23 years for the rape; 6 they tacked on another two years because he 7 tried to kill someone, when he was in prison, 8 with an ax. This was someone who was denied 9 parole nine times. So clearly the parole 10 board knew that this was someone who was not 11 ready to join society once again. 12 But yet Mr. Grant was released into 13 the community. He went from homeless shelter 14 to homeless shelter. He refused any type of 15 medical treatment or evaluation. Believe it 16 or not, he did register, as he was supposed to 17 under Megan's Law, even reregistered after the 18 90-day requirement, again under the law. He 19 snuck into the Galleria Mall, stole a knife 20 out of a store, waited in the parking lot of 21 the mall, and killed the first person that 22 came in. 23 Again, another horrible example 24 which happened a little more recently, in the 25 Throgs Neck section of the Bronx that I

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(518) 371-8910 1 represent, is a man named Sheldon Becker. 2 Sheldon Becker also served a very long prison 3 sentence for rape. He was released back in 4 June. He went to live with a very good friend 5 of his. Just a couple of weeks ago, this man 6 raped and killed his friend's daughter. 7 Again, someone who was released 8 into the community. This was someone who was 9 so not being rehabilitated and so not ready to 10 join society that he didn't even show up at 11 his own parole hearing. But finally they let 12 him out because he just refused to show up and 13 the time elapsed and he was just released 14 again onto the streets of the Bronx. 15 What I'm saying here today is that 16 I think we really need to have a civil 17 confinement law. I think we tried every other 18 avenue. Longer prison sentences seem not to 19 work in this situation. And I think it's 20 incumbent upon us, before we release these 21 people back into society, they're evaluated. 22 You know, I heard some of the 23 debate so far today, and I know I've read some 24 of the memos by the groups who oppose this 25 legislation. And I personally don't

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(518) 371-8910 1 understand why. The psychiatric community, I 2 know, had some opposition memos. I know that 3 I would want someone on the field of 4 psychiatry to evaluate this person to 5 determine whether or not they're safe to go 6 back into society before they're released. 7 They're going to be one of the final says in 8 this, and I think this is important. 9 After these horrible instances, I 10 held a hearing in Westchester earlier in the 11 year and I had people really from both sides 12 of the issue testify. But I must say that 13 overwhelmingly the people who testified at 14 this hearing were in favor of civil 15 confinement. 16 One of the people who testified was 17 a gentleman by the name of Kip Cornwell. He's 18 a law professor at Seton Hall University and 19 he's director of New Jersey's Institute for 20 Law and Mental Health. He is really one of 21 the foremost experts on civil confinement and 22 helped draft the New Jersey law. 23 And what he said was very, very 24 interesting. And I remember one of the 25 questions that was posed to him: Well, do you

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(518) 371-8910 1 really believe that many of these individuals, 2 especially a Level 3 sexual predator, can be 3 rehabilitated? And his answer was no, that in 4 some cases you can have all the treatment 5 there is, and all of the best doctors, and 6 sometimes you're not going to actually cure 7 this person. 8 So I think, unfortunately, the only 9 answer is that a person like this has to be 10 civilly confined after they serve their prison 11 sentence. I think if you look at the numbers, 12 it bears out what I'm saying. A Level 3 13 sexual predator is four times more likely to 14 commit the same or similar crime when they're 15 released from prison. It's one of the also 16 horrible crimes that as these individuals get 17 older, in many cases, they even have a greater 18 proclivity to commit these crimes. 19 So I think the only answer is to 20 have a constitutional process. And everyone 21 knows, and I know Senator Volker talked about 22 it earlier, the seminal case in this area was 23 the Kansas law. They were the second in the 24 nation to pass civil confinement. They've 25 become the most famous because their law was

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(518) 371-8910 1 challenged twice by the United States Supreme 2 Court, and it was found constitutional, as not 3 a violation of double jeopardy. 4 Because what's happening is after 5 someone serves a prison sentence, I think the 6 safeguards are in place to determine whether 7 or not that person is civilly confined 8 certainly is something that's going to pass 9 constitutional muster. So I'm hopeful that I 10 think the politics is gone. The bantering 11 back and forth between the Senate and the 12 Assembly also will come to an end. Because I 13 think it's high time that we pass civil 14 confinement in New York State. 15 I vote for this bill. I urge my 16 colleagues to do the same. And I'm hopeful 17 that the Assembly will follow through and pass 18 civil confinement as well. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 20 you, Senator. 21 Senator Sabini. 22 SENATOR SABINI: Thank you, Madam 23 President. On the bill. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: On the 25 bill.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SABINI: I want to 2 congratulate Senator Volker and say that I 3 support this bill, as I have in the past, but 4 with a new fervor. 5 And that is that I had the 6 privilege of attending the public forum that 7 Senator Klein sponsored in Bronxville. And to 8 witness the relatives, the sons and nephew of 9 Connie Russo, and obviously the sorrow they 10 had and obviously the anger they had that this 11 was allowed to happen to someone just going 12 home from work at night -- as millions of 13 New Yorkers do -- but, further, that this 14 sleeper agent, this ticking time bomb, was 15 within feet of tens of thousands of 16 respectable New Yorkers and even driven there 17 by the County of Westchester every day from 18 his homeless shelter. Because they have a 19 policy of bringing people, after the shelter 20 experience, to a more populated area where 21 they feel they can better fit in and eat and 22 stay warm. That, in effect, Westchester 23 supplied car service for him to commit this 24 crime. 25 And to see their anger -- it's not

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(518) 371-8910 1 the same kind of case, but, you know, we have 2 Kendra's Law in New York now. Many of us from 3 Queens remember that Kendra Webdale was a 4 woman who, when she got out of college, was a 5 reporter at the Queens Tribune and interviewed 6 some of us who were in public life. And then 7 to read about what happened to her -- 8 different set of circumstances, different kind 9 of crime. But again, to think that there are 10 people in our society who are, in effect, in 11 our neighborhoods who are just waiting for the 12 opportunity to do this. 13 Now, I believe I'm a civil 14 libertarian. But when you go through the 15 levels of actions that are required to be 16 civilly confined, between a multidisciplinary 17 review, an attorney general's review, a 18 hearing, a jury trial -- this is after you've 19 committed a crime and served your sentence. 20 If you've gotten that far and that many people 21 think that maybe you're a danger to society, 22 I'm going to side with them. 23 That may sound simplistic, and I 24 don't like to be simplistic on these matters. 25 But the fact of the matter is that we all have

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(518) 371-8910 1 a right to sort of conduct our lives and 2 expect the government to protect us. And if 3 the government knows, in our heart of hearts, 4 that there are people out there who are 5 capable of these things that we're letting do 6 these things because we as lawmakers haven't 7 set up a framework to protect its citizenry, 8 then shame on us. 9 So as I said, I've supported this 10 before, but I want to comment Senator Volker 11 and also Senator Klein for having that forum 12 and bringing the Russo family there to sort of 13 underline why this is important and why it's 14 important that as New Yorkers we're allowed to 15 live our lives on a day-to-day basis and be 16 protected from people that experts will tell 17 us, and experts will review under this law, 18 shouldn't be in the street. 19 Thank you, Madam President. I'll 20 vote aye. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 22 you, Senator Sabini. 23 Senator Liz Krueger. 24 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 25 Madam President. On the bill.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 2 you. On the bill. 3 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 4 Well, I suppose I want to point out 5 that I agree both with Senator Duane's 6 concerns and Senator Klein's support for 7 Senator Volker's bill. Because we know, as 8 Senator Volker articulated and Senator Klein 9 has continued to articulate both in the 10 Assembly and the Senate, that the state has 11 needed to do something more to protect its 12 citizens. 13 But it is also true that Senator 14 Duane highlighted, in his questioning of 15 Senator Volker, many of the concerns that I 16 have that we should not walk away in passing 17 this bill -- and I will vote for this bill -- 18 with the illusion that we really ended a 19 problem if we pass this bill. 20 And the fact is what we don't hear 21 anything about this week with this 22 legislation, although questions have been 23 raised, is where is the additional services 24 that are needed. What do we do with the fact 25 that, while this might address a problem for

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(518) 371-8910 1 some number of people who are found guilty of 2 sex offense crimes, those in the area of 3 working with victims will tell us that up to 4 90 percent of the young people who are victims 5 of sex crimes know their perpetrators, they 6 are the victims of incest, and those 7 perpetrators are not being found guilty and 8 they're not going through our criminal justice 9 system or our treatment or civil confinement 10 system. And perhaps most disturbingly, those 11 victims are not getting treatment. And we are 12 doing very little to prevent the continuing 13 rate of attacks on them. 14 And as some of us have raised 15 before, we are not addressing the problems of 16 going after, in an effective way, prosecution 17 of people who we know are committing these 18 crimes. I support ending the statute of 19 limitations on rape, and we have not moved 20 through the Legislature on that bill. We 21 don't have the money, at least in my city, to 22 provide adequate treatment for victims of 23 sexual attack. We have rape centers that are 24 closing their doors. We have hospitals that 25 are saying they don't have the resources to

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(518) 371-8910 1 treat the victims of sexual assault who are 2 coming to them. And we have the ongoing 3 problem, of course, that people don't come 4 forward and report that they have been the 5 victims of sexual offense. 6 So I worry that with this 7 legislation we should not do announcements we 8 have solved the problem. We have addressed, 9 and perhaps not eloquently enough, one 10 subissue for one subuniverse of offenders who 11 have been caught and are considered such 12 extreme predators that there should be a 13 process that is gone through that hopefully 14 meets our constitutional standards and assures 15 equal treatment under the law for everyone. 16 But we heard just, I believe, last 17 week in the city about the caseloads for 18 parole officers being so high that they argue 19 we are not monitoring the criminal justice 20 system at all near what the expectation is of 21 the public when people do get out of prison. 22 We know that we are not, in fact, 23 doing everything we can to prevent sexual 24 assault, although I understand that the 25 Capital District Center for Sex Offender

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(518) 371-8910 1 Management in the district of Albany has some 2 excellent models that we should be exploring 3 and replicating statewide. 4 I know that we aren't training our 5 staff well enough. I know we aren't providing 6 the services in our hospitals, in our police 7 systems to ensure we decrease the number of 8 victims. We encourage victims to come 9 forward, we get them help, and we provide 10 treatment in jails. 11 And I also know, as Senator Duane 12 just said, that we risk very seriously in the 13 State of New York, unless we do this right -- 14 and this bill I don't believe gives us the 15 funding to do it right -- we risk having civil 16 confinement in a mental health system which 17 already has unbelievably vulnerable people 18 living there. Senator Duane described his 19 visit to, I believe, two sites where, if we 20 simply put our most dangerous predators in our 21 institutions, we risk doing greater harm to 22 people in the institutions and pretending that 23 we solved the problem when we simply moved a 24 problem. 25 So I will vote for the bill. But I

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(518) 371-8910 1 will hope that, in conference between the 2 Senate and the Assembly, that we will move 3 forward with some of the issues that are not 4 addressed in this bill that I believe our 5 colleagues in the Assembly have attempted to 6 address through a series of bills that may or 7 may not have moved through their house yet. 8 But as we had one conference 9 committee off of last week's bill, I hope that 10 we will continue to work together in both 11 houses to ensure that we simply don't pass 12 freestanding one-house bills and say there's a 13 victory for the people of New York, but, 14 rather, we ask the very tough questions about 15 very tough issues. 16 Because of course this is one of 17 those very, very difficult issues. And it's a 18 scary issue. And so we have to make sure that 19 we don't simply pass one one-house bill and 20 say we've taken care of the problem, because 21 with this bill we will not have taken care of 22 the problem, we will have dealt with one 23 complex piece of a very, very large and 24 complex set of issues. 25 Thank you, Madam President.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 2 you, Senator Krueger. 3 Senator Schneiderman. 4 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 5 Madam President. Very briefly. 6 I also -- I do intend to support 7 this bill. I think that having the option to 8 continue confining the most dangerous sex 9 offenders after they get out of prison with 10 appropriate due process should make our 11 communities safer. But you have to do it 12 properly. You have to do it carefully. And I 13 have some concerns about this bill that I want 14 to voice. 15 I do commend those who have moved 16 it forward to this point, and I am hopeful -- 17 in fact, I'm quite optimistic that we're going 18 to see the Assembly pass a set of bills and 19 move forward hopefully to a conference 20 committee, as Senator Krueger has indicated. 21 I particularly want to single out 22 Senator Klein, who held the first public 23 hearing last year, before the Assembly held 24 its hearings, to really jump-start the process 25 and bring us, I believe sincerely, to where we

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(518) 371-8910 1 are today. 2 It is important that we pass a bill 3 that can pass both houses, and it's important 4 that we pass a bill that can withstand a legal 5 challenge. So I don't think that any of these 6 concerns that are being voiced here should be 7 trivialized. I think this is a very difficult 8 area of law. The law in this country, and one 9 of the reasons for the founding of this 10 country, is the principle that you do not lock 11 people up for things that they may do, you 12 only lock people up for things that they have 13 done. 14 And when we get into an area of 15 prediction, it's always difficult. There are 16 exceptions to this. There are other 17 commitment statutes, as Senator Volker has 18 articulated. But I think there are some 19 things that need to be noted. 20 First of all, I realize some people 21 in this house believe that you have some sort 22 of a moral obligation to put a poison pill 23 relating to civil litigation into every piece 24 of legislation. But let's get this 25 poison-pill anti-trial-lawyer provision out of

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(518) 371-8910 1 this legislation. It's not going to pass the 2 Assembly. Everyone in this state, whether 3 you're working on civil-commitment issues or 4 you're working on law-enforcement issues or 5 medical issues or mental health issues, should 6 be held to the same standard of care. 7 This bill creates a good-faith 8 exception for the actions of public officials. 9 That's not going to fly. Let's stop kidding 10 around with that and get it out of here. 11 I would urge my colleagues here 12 that we can learn from the Governor's example. 13 You don't hear me say that a lot. But the 14 Governor realized that his bill could be 15 better. He's introduced a bill since 1997, 16 and he realized it could be improved. And one 17 of the things that was on display this morning 18 was his commitment to separate those who might 19 be confined under this legislation from the 20 general mental health population. As Senator 21 Duane and Senator Krueger have pointed out, 22 this is a serious concern. 23 So let's follow the Governor's 24 example. There are ways we can make this bill 25 better. Some of them were in the package of

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(518) 371-8910 1 bills that the Assembly rolled out at the end 2 of last year. Again, I take nothing away from 3 those who would take credit for forcing the 4 Assembly to act on this issue. But let's look 5 at what they've done and see if we can improve 6 our bill. 7 I mean, one of the provisions in 8 the Assembly bill deals with longer prison 9 terms for the worst sex predators. That's 10 something that is actually in a bill by 11 Assemblyman Gianaris. One of the provisions 12 that the Assembly deals with that we don't 13 deal with is talking about where you get the 14 money for counsel, talking about where you get 15 the money for treatment, providing for sexual 16 abuse prevention curriculums in the school and 17 sex abuse prevention training videos for 18 parents. 19 There is more we can do. As 20 Senator Duane has noted -- and if you take one 21 thing away from this, let's be honest with the 22 people of the State of New York -- we are not 23 doing anything about the overwhelming majority 24 of those who cause these traumatic experiences 25 for our children, for our families, for our

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(518) 371-8910 1 constituents. This bill does not provide the 2 treatment money, this bill does not provide 3 resources for parole and probation officers 4 who are overburdened, this bill does not deal 5 with the overwhelming portion of this problem. 6 It deals with a narrow portion. We should 7 address that. 8 But let's look at some of the 9 bigger issues that it raises. If we go to a 10 conference committee, let's go to a conference 11 committee on the overall issue of what we do 12 about sexual predators in this state, not just 13 passing a narrow bill to take the very worst 14 offenders and put them in civil confinement. 15 Finally, I want to note that I do 16 think there's a due process problem with the 17 bill. And, Senator Volker, this is meant in 18 all good conscience to advise you, because 19 obviously, if we pass a bill that won't pass 20 the other house, we're not doing anything. If 21 we pass a bill that's get struck down in the 22 courts, we aren't doing anything. 23 And your problem -- you know, with 24 all due respect to some people who've opined 25 on whether this proposed legislation complies

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(518) 371-8910 1 with the prohibitions of Kansas v. Hendricks, 2 I don't think your problem is the U.S. Supreme 3 Court, ladies and gentlemen. I think you've 4 got the highest court in the state to get past 5 on this issue before you get to the U.S. 6 Supreme Court. I don't think the Supreme 7 Court has gotten more liberal since 1996. So 8 I think the U.S. Supreme Court is not the 9 issue. 10 I do, however, think you might have 11 an issue with the Court of Appeals of this 12 state, for the following reason. I agree with 13 Senator Sabini that there are substantial 14 protections in place in this legislation 15 before someone gets civilly confined. You 16 have a panel, you have a hearing, you have a 17 right to a trial by jury, you have the 18 attorney general reviewing the file. I think 19 you have a good argument that you have 20 adequate protections before people go in under 21 this bill. 22 I would note, however, the dramatic 23 gap between the procedures approved in Kansas 24 v. Hendricks and the procedures provided in 25 this bill to let someone out if they can

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(518) 371-8910 1 demonstrate that they are no longer in need of 2 civil confinement. 3 The Supreme Court said very, very 4 clearly in Kansas v. Hendricks, in approving 5 the Kansas statute, this is approved because, 6 among other things, this statute permitted 7 immediate release upon a showing that the 8 individual is no longer dangerous or mentally 9 impaired. There is a provision in the Kansas 10 statute that you immediately get out. 11 Now, in the New York statute that 12 is being proposed here -- and Senator Volker 13 discussed this, but very, very briefly -- you 14 don't get an immediate relief if you can 15 demonstrate this. What you get is every year 16 you have to be evaluated and then, after the 17 evaluation, the commissioner, whichever 18 commissioner has jurisdiction, determines 19 whether or not -- and this is the language of 20 the statute -- "The commissioner shall review 21 such records and reports, along with the 22 findings of the psychiatric examiner, and make 23 a determination in writing as to whether the 24 person no longer is a sexually violent 25 predator. The commissioner's written

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(518) 371-8910 1 determination shall be provided to the court 2 that committed the person under this article." 3 The actual psychiatric evaluation 4 doesn't go to the prisoner, doesn't go to the 5 court. You have the commissioner holding the 6 keys. The commissioner once a year has to 7 read a psychiatric evaluation and determine if 8 a person is a sexually violent predator. That 9 means this all comes down to, essentially, a 10 discretionary act of the commissioner. 11 The only remedy for this, if a 12 commissioner wouldn't let someone out -- and I 13 note that the immediacy which was specifically 14 noted in the Supreme Court decision is not 15 provided here. This just provides that once a 16 year someone gets examined and the 17 commissioner decides if he or she believes 18 this person is a sexually violent predator. 19 If the commissioner does not decide 20 that, you can't get out. You can make a 21 petition; you can file, I guess, an Article 78 22 proceeding that this was wrongfully decided. 23 It is a very, very steep climb. It is not 24 anything like the substantial due process 25 considerations that are given to the person

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(518) 371-8910 1 who would be confined on the way in. 2 I would urge you, my colleagues, 3 that we have to have a better system for 4 letting people out who can demonstrate that 5 they no longer pose a threat to society, as 6 was done in Kansas. 7 So under this statute as proposed 8 by Senator Volker, it's hard to get someone in 9 to civil confinement, but it is virtually 10 impossible for anyone civilly confined to get 11 out. It's very, very difficult, and it's very 12 much subject to the discretion of the 13 commissioner. 14 So in addition, this statute 15 provides that once your initial petition to 16 get out is denied, if a person has previously 17 filed a petition for discharge, then the court 18 shall deny the subsequent petition unless the 19 petition contains facts upon which a court 20 could find that the person's mental 21 abnormality has so changed as to warrant an 22 evidentiary hearing. 23 So again, there's a steep slope for 24 the public authorities to go through to get 25 someone in, but there's a steeper slope for a

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(518) 371-8910 1 confined person to go through to get out. I 2 thinks that's a constitutional infirmity. I 3 think that's something that has to be cleaned 4 up if we want the statute to actually become 5 law, survive a legal challenge, and do 6 anything to protect the people of this state 7 that it is intended to protect. 8 Many of us have heard the stories 9 of what's happened, we have children 10 ourselves, we are concerned about the issue of 11 sexual predators. We'd like to do something. 12 Most of us, I think, in our candid moments 13 acknowledge that this does not solve the 14 problem, this deals with a very narrow group 15 of people. We need more funding, we need more 16 treatment, we need a better way to deal with 17 people. 18 And Senator Duane was right on when 19 he noted that the most recent scientific 20 evidence is that in fact a significant number 21 of people who fall into this category can be 22 cured, over time, with treatment. And with 23 advances in science, we can only hope for 24 more. 25 So let's look at the issue broadly.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Let's get out the poison pills. Let's take an 2 honest look at the Assembly's proposals to see 3 if we can improve as we hopefully go into 4 conference committee. 5 And let's not pass a bill that has 6 an unconstitutional prohibition on people 7 being able to immediately get out on a showing 8 that they're no longer dangerous. That is not 9 in the New York statute, ladies and gentlemen, 10 and that has to be changed before a final bill 11 is passed. 12 I hope I will have the chance to 13 vote on a final bill during this session. I 14 hope we will get the Assembly to a conference 15 committee on this. It's the right way to go. 16 I will vote for this bill, subject to all of 17 these concerns, in the hope that we move the 18 process along and that we're able to actually 19 reach agreement on this. 20 Again, I commend all those who are 21 struggling with this very, very difficult 22 area, those who favor this and those who 23 oppose it, for raising these issues. This is 24 not an easy area of law or policy. But I am 25 going to vote aye.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Thank you, Madam President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 3 you, Senator. 4 Senator Savino. 5 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you, Madam 6 President. 7 First, I'd like to commend Senator 8 Volker for bringing this bill. You know, 9 about a week ago there was an article in the 10 newspapers, in all the newspapers, which 11 showed the results of a poll by the Sienna 12 College that said that the people of the State 13 of New York were very dissatisfied with their 14 state government. They felt that we were not 15 responsive to them, that we did not address 16 their needs, and we were not acting in their 17 interests. 18 And I would say that perhaps today 19 we are taking a step in changing that opinion, 20 because I think we are addressing a need that 21 the people of the State of New York for many 22 years have felt was a serious threat to their 23 life and/or health. 24 I hear the concerns of my 25 colleagues, Senator Schneiderman, Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Krueger, and Senator Duane, and their eloquent 2 discussion here about what's not being 3 addressed. And they're absolutely right that 4 more needs to be done. But I think for too 5 long we have looked at this particular arena 6 of the criminal justice system and the meatal 7 health system and erred on the side of caution 8 with respect to the predator and not to the 9 victim. 10 And while we struggle with how we 11 find the funding to provide the mental health 12 services and how we address those issues, the 13 first thing we have got to do is protect the 14 future victims so that they are not victims at 15 all. So if we have to begin by civilly 16 confining people who we have seen in the past 17 have demonstrated that they are a danger to 18 others, then that is where we start as we 19 grapple with the other issues that have been 20 raised here today. 21 As I said, this is an ever-evolving 22 area of the mental health and criminal justice 23 area. And it is a mental health issue, but it 24 is a mental health issue that results in 25 criminal behavior, and we cannot continue to

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(518) 371-8910 1 ignore that. 2 So I stand in support of this 3 legislation. And I think we can continue the 4 discussion on how we provide more mental 5 health services, provide more money, deal with 6 this issue as this continues to evolve. 7 We've come a long way. When 8 Senator Marchi first came to the Legislature 9 fifty years ago, if a man was arrested for 10 sexually assaulting a woman, the woman was as 11 much on trial as the man was. She had to 12 prove that she hadn't done something to entice 13 that man into attacking her. We know better 14 now. 15 Twenty years ago we would have 16 looked at some of these sexual predators and 17 thought that there were things that provoked 18 them. We know better now. We know it's not 19 about sex, we know it's about violence, we 20 know it's about power over your victim. And 21 we've got to protect the people who are the 22 potential victims and provide justice to those 23 who have already been victimized. 24 So I stand in support of this 25 legislation. Thank you.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 2 you, Senator Savino. 3 Is there any other Senator wishing 4 to be heard? 5 The debate is closed. 6 The Secretary will ring the bell. 7 Read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 22. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 14 Volker, to explain his vote. 15 SENATOR VOLKER: To explain my 16 vote. 17 I just want to thank my colleagues 18 for their comments, and especially Senator 19 Schneiderman. 20 This is a bill -- quite obviously, 21 this is not the final bill, although we'd like 22 to think we could finish up quickly. But I 23 expect that we probably will go to a 24 conference committee within the next -- 25 depending on how this works out. From the

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(518) 371-8910 1 beginning, we had talked about the fact we 2 needed to do Megan's Law first and get that 3 out of the way, get that done, and then we 4 believe civil confinement must be dealt with. 5 I think Senator Schneiderman makes 6 a point, and we're certainly going to look at 7 the exit issue. This is the Governor's bill. 8 And although there have been considerable 9 changes in it, it's something we will look at. 10 I just want to point one thing out 11 that Senator Duane said. Senator Duane, there 12 is treatment in prisons for sexual problems. 13 In fact, the prison you were in, there isn't 14 any. But I can tell you from experience -- I 15 have been in a number of prisons, as you can 16 imagine, and we do have treatment for people 17 that have sex problems. In fact, some of them 18 can't get out on parole until they do have 19 treatment. 20 In fact, I had one individual whose 21 mother came to me and asked me why her son was 22 not allowed out. And the reason was he 23 refused to do a program in the prison system 24 as regards to trying to help them with certain 25 sexual evaluation problems.

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(518) 371-8910 1 We do have them. They're not in 2 every prison. But frankly, New York has done 3 a great deal more in both drugs and alcohol 4 and in dealing with sexual problems. 5 But I'm the first to admit to you 6 the problem is I question whether there's 7 hardly enough money in the world to do all the 8 things that we should really do. And it's 9 easy to say that we're not dealing with the 10 problems. But what we are really doing, I 11 think, is trying to deal the best we can. And 12 that's what this bill is all about as far as 13 civil commitment is concerned. 14 I vote aye. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 16 you. Senator Volker will be recorded in the 17 affirmative. 18 Senator Nozzolio, to explain his 19 vote. 20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, 21 Madam President and my colleagues. I ask 22 permission to explain my vote. 23 First, I wish to congratulate 24 Senator Volker for again putting this measure 25 before this house. That the measure is indeed

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(518) 371-8910 1 needed. And, Senator Volker, thank you for 2 your consistent leadership. 3 The Senate Committee on Crime 4 Victims, Crime and Corrections conducted 5 hearings on this important matter this year 6 and during the past 12 months took testimony 7 from a lot of individuals. But the individual 8 I'd like to thank the most for helping us with 9 this particular legislation was not a 10 New Yorker but a man by the name of Mark 11 Lunsford. 12 Mark Lunsford is a truck driver 13 from Florida who lost his daughter at the 14 cruel hands of a sexual predator. And that 15 grief that Mark Lunsford had helped channel 16 through this legislation. And that before he 17 helped us, though, he helped Florida establish 18 this very same type of civil confinement for 19 sexual predators. 20 Sixteen other states have supported 21 this type of legislation. New York, don't kid 22 yourself, is not at the forefront; we're 23 behind the curve. But thanks to Senator 24 Volker's persistence, we will be establishing 25 the proper procedures to ensure that those who

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(518) 371-8910 1 are committing sex crimes and crimes against 2 children don't get out in the street to do it 3 again. 4 Senator Skelos said this many years 5 ago when Megan's Law was first established: 6 Once a sex predator, always a sex predator. 7 And that measure certainly is something that 8 is recognized by this legislation, this needed 9 legislation. And that I certainly am pleased 10 this house is supporting it. 11 Thank you, Madam President. I vote 12 aye. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 14 you. Senator Nozzolio will be recorded in the 15 affirmative. 16 The Secretary will announce the 17 results. 18 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 19 the negative on Calendar Number 32 are 20 Senators Duane and Montgomery. Ayes, 56. 21 Nays, 2. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 23 bill is passed. 24 Senator Maziarz, that completes the 25 controversial reading of the calendar.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you very 2 much, Madam President. 3 Is there any further business at 4 the desk? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: No, 6 there is not. 7 SENATOR MAZIARZ: In that case, 8 Madam President, there being no further 9 business, I move that we adjourn until 10 Wednesday, January the 18th, at 11:00 a.m. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: On 12 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until 13 Wednesday, January 18th, at 11:00 a.m. 14 (Whereupon, at 4:55 p.m., the 15 Senate adjourned.) 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

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(518) 371-8910