Tuesday, January 23, 2007

1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE 2 3 4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 January 23, 2007 11 11:03 a.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 LT. GOVERNOR DAVID A. PATERSON, President 19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24 25

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(518) 371-8910 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will 3 come to order. 4 I would ask all those in the 5 chamber to please stand and join me in 6 reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. 7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 9 THE PRESIDENT: In the absence of 10 clergy, we will bow our heads in silence for a 11 moment. 12 (Whereupon, the assemblage 13 respected a moment of silence.) 14 THE PRESIDENT: Reading of the 15 Journal. 16 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 17 Monday, January 22, the Senate met pursuant to 18 adjournment. The Journal of Sunday, 19 January 21, was read and approved. On motion, 20 Senate adjourned. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Without 22 objection, the Journal stands approved. 23 Senator Skelos. 24 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 25 there will be an immediate meeting of the

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(518) 371-8910 1 Majority in the Majority Conference Room. 2 THE PRESIDENT: There will be an 3 immediate meeting of the Majority in the 4 Majority Conference Room. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: And we'll stand 6 at ease. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Till then, we'll 8 stand at ease. 9 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 10 ease at 11:04 a.m.) 11 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened 12 at 11:35 a.m.) 13 THE PRESIDENT: The chair 14 recognizes Senator Skelos. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 16 if we could continue, regular order, please. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Presentation of 18 petitions. 19 Messages from the Assembly. 20 Messages from the Governor. 21 Reports of standing committees. 22 Reports of select committees. 23 Communications and reports from 24 state officers. 25 Motions and resolutions.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Skelos. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 3 move that we adopt the Resolution Calendar in 4 its entirety. 5 THE PRESIDENT: All those in 6 favor of adopting the Resolution Calendar in 7 its entirety signify by saying aye. 8 (Response of "Aye.") 9 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay. 10 (No response.) 11 THE PRESIDENT: I believe the 12 ayes have it. The Resolution Calendar is 13 adopted. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 15 if we could go to the noncontroversial reading 16 of the calendar. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 18 Senator. 19 The Secretary will read. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 1, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 66, an act 22 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 23 including gambling. 24 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 25 section.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect on the first of 3 November. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56. 7 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 8 passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 2, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 67, an act 11 to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 12 possession of gambling devices. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 14 section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 16 act shall take effect on the first of 17 November. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56. 21 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 22 passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 12, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 436, an 25 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

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(518) 371-8910 1 establishing. 2 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 3 will read the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect on the first of 6 November. 7 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55. Nays, 10 1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative. 11 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 12 passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 13, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 439, an 15 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law, in 16 relation to limited plea bargaining. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last 18 section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect on the first of 21 November. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56. 25 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is

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(518) 371-8910 1 passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 17, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 1A, an act 4 to amend the Tax Law, the Administrative Code 5 of the City of New York, the Real Property Tax 6 Law, and the Education Law. 7 SENATOR DUANE: Lay it aside. 8 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid 9 aside. 10 Senator Skelos, that completes the 11 reading of the noncontroversial calendar. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, 13 Mr. President. 14 If we could go to the controversial 15 reading of the calendar, and please ring the 16 bell so that members will know that we have 17 one bill to discuss, controversial. 18 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 19 will ring the bell. 20 The Secretary will read on the 21 controversial calendar. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 17, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 1A, an act 24 to amend the Tax Law and others. 25 THE PRESIDENT: The chair

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(518) 371-8910 1 recognizes Senator Valesky. 2 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you, 3 Mr. President. 4 I believe there's an amendment at 5 the desk. I ask that the reading of the 6 amendment be waived and that I have an 7 opportunity to be heard on the amendment. 8 THE PRESIDENT: The reading of 9 the amendment is waived, and the chair 10 recognizes Senator Valesky. 11 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you, 12 Mr. President. 13 Mr. President, I'm sure many if not 14 all of my colleagues in the chamber today have 15 repeatedly heard concerns from our 16 constituents about the burden of property 17 taxes. It was an issue and has been an issue 18 that we have attempted to address in recent 19 years, and there's certainly much more work 20 that needs to be done. 21 Senate Print 1A is a bill that 22 would provide additional property tax relief 23 to property taxpayers all across the State of 24 New York. We anticipate next week, in 25 Governor Spitzer's budget presentation, for an

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(518) 371-8910 1 alternative plan to be offered. 2 Today I have an amendment, and my 3 colleague Senator Stewart-Cousins has an 4 amendment as well, which represent an attempt 5 on this side of the aisle to enhance and 6 improve Senate Bill 1A sponsored by Senator 7 Bruno. 8 This amendment specifically relates 9 to a real property tax credit -- it's 10 sometimes referred to as a circuit-breaker tax 11 credit -- that has been on the books in this 12 state long before, actually, the STAR program 13 was created a decade or so ago. 14 The problem with the real property 15 tax credit as it currently exists is that its 16 thresholds for participation have not been 17 raised in some 30 years. And so the way the 18 program works right now, if you have a 19 household income up to $18,000 and an assessed 20 value of your home up to $85,000, you're 21 eligible for a tax credit. If you're a 22 senior, that tax credit can be up to $375; if 23 you are a nonsenior, a $75 tax credit. 24 And, Mr. President, I'm sure that 25 members would agree over 30 years, those

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(518) 371-8910 1 levels are no longer sufficient to provide 2 some significant property tax relief. 3 So this amendment would increase 4 the household eligibility level from $18,000 5 to $36,000. It would increase the assessed 6 value of a home to participate in this project 7 from $85,000 to $100,000. And it would 8 increase those maximum benefits for seniors 9 from $375 to $1125 and for nonseniors from $75 10 to $225. 11 Right now there are about 280,000 12 households that take advantage of this 13 property tax credit. We estimate that if this 14 amendment were to be adopted today and 15 ultimately become law, we would see over a 16 half a million households across New York 17 State getting real help and relief in regard 18 to their property taxes through an enhanced 19 property tax credit structure. 20 So, Mr. President, I encourage all 21 of my members to support this particular 22 amendment. Thank you very much. 23 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 24 Senator Valesky. 25 On the amendment, all those in

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(518) 371-8910 1 favor of the amendment signify by raising your 2 hand. 3 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 4 agreement are Senators Breslin, Diaz, Dilan, 5 Duane, Gonzalez, Hassell-Thompson, Klein, 6 Onorato, Perkins, Sabini, Sampson, Savino, 7 Schneiderman, Serrano, Smith, Stavisky, 8 Stewart-Cousins, Thompson and Valesky. 9 THE PRESIDENT: The amendment is 10 not agreed to. 11 The chair recognizes Senator 12 Stewart-Cousins. 13 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: Yes, 14 Mr. President. I believe there's an amendment 15 at the desk, and I ask that the reading of the 16 amendment be waived so that I can be heard on 17 the amendment. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Waive the reading 19 of the amendment. 20 Senator Stewart-Cousins. 21 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: Yes, 22 Mr. President. I rise because Chapter 105 of 23 the Laws of 2006 will increase the New York 24 State STAR credit against the New York City 25 personal income tax. What the Senate

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(518) 371-8910 1 Democratic minority is proposing today is that 2 we expand that personal income tax credit to 3 include renters who are outside of New York 4 City. 5 Currently the personal income tax 6 credit applies to approximately 900,000 7 households. By expanding that credit, we will 8 be able to impact the lives and the prospects 9 to maintain affordable housing for 10 middle-class families, working poor families, 11 and it would impact, frankly, approximately 12 another million households. 13 I think that as we move forward to 14 stabilize our economy and to create 15 possibilities for New York's economic growth, 16 we try and create ways quickly for the middle 17 class, for working poor to maintain 18 affordability. So although I certainly am 19 happy that New York City renters are able to 20 receive a personal income tax credit, I 21 believe that it is an egregious error to 22 exclude non-New York City residents. 23 So this amendment, Mr. President, 24 would include non-New York City renters as 25 being eligible for a personal income tax

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(518) 371-8910 1 credit. And I certainly would urge all of the 2 Senators to adopt this amendment. 3 THE PRESIDENT: On the amendment, 4 all those in favor please indicate by raising 5 their hands. 6 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 7 agreement are Senators Breslin, Diaz, Dilan, 8 Duane, Gonzalez, Hassell-Thompson, Klein, 9 Onorato, Perkins, Sabini, Sampson, Savino, 10 Schneiderman, Serrano, Smith, Stavisky, 11 Stewart-Cousins, Thompson and Valesky. 12 THE PRESIDENT: The amendment is 13 not agreed to. 14 Senator Little, on the bill. 15 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you, 16 Mr. President. 17 The bill that we have before us is 18 one that we have all talked about bringing to 19 the floor for a number of years. It is a bill 20 that will reform the property tax payment 21 system in New York State, and it has two parts 22 to it. 23 It has one part which is a 24 short-term fix which will expand the STAR 25 program. Over a number of years, $6 billion

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(518) 371-8910 1 will go into this program to expand the STAR 2 rebate to help primary residents pay their 3 school taxes. 4 In all six of the counties that I 5 represent, the average county rebate will more 6 than double with this program, offering a 7 substantial help in paying their school taxes. 8 But we shouldn't fool ourselves. 9 Reforming the property tax issue is a very 10 complicated issue. The amount of money 11 collected in property taxes in New York State 12 amounts to about $38 billion. If you decide 13 not to collect that through a property tax, 14 where are you going to collect it from? And 15 are you going to be able to attack the 16 spending as needed to meet what you can 17 collect in an income tax or a sales tax or 18 fees or however else we come up with? 19 So the second part of this bill 20 incorporates a bill that I have proposed, 21 which is to have a blue-ribbon commission. 22 And that blue-ribbon commission will have one 23 year, meeting on a monthly basis, with nine 24 members -- not politicians, but financial 25 experts who will look at all the myriad of

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(518) 371-8910 1 property tax bills that we have. I myself 2 have probably submitted eight to 10 property 3 tax bills. 4 We all know we need to do 5 something. One of the amendments that we had 6 here today dealt with a circuit-breaker bill. 7 A circuit breaker, my understanding is, is one 8 of the best ways to help have a property tax 9 figure in the ability to pay. We have a 10 circuit breaker on the books. It is not 11 enough. It has never been changed. The 12 current one says a household -- market value 13 of your house has to be $85,000. 14 The amendment that was proposed 15 today only increases that household value to 16 $100,000. I will tell you that the houses in 17 my district, the median value the market value 18 of them in many areas has doubled, tripled, 19 quadrupled. A $100,000 house of market value 20 on Long Island? I don't know how many are 21 left of $100,000 value. And even in many of 22 my small communities in the Adirondacks, where 23 people are buying these homes for second 24 homes. 25 However, a circuit breaker is

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(518) 371-8910 1 something to be looked at. I have a bill that 2 not only helps seniors but it helps all 3 primary residents. And it figures in their 4 income, so that after a certain percentage of 5 that income, they get a tax rebate back to 6 help pay their property taxes. And it's not 7 just their school, it's also all of their 8 property taxes. 9 We need to consider everything. 10 And the way I believe that we can do it, and 11 the way that this bill shows us, is to have a 12 group of experts. Those experts would have 13 subcommittees who would look at all of the 14 different issues in property tax reform: 15 Accountability, property assessment plans, tax 16 containment policies, alternative financing 17 methods, government options. 18 Is a circuit breaker right? Is a 19 STAR program right? What do we need to do to 20 help the people of New York State who have 21 some of the highest property taxes in this 22 country? I find people whose income has not 23 increased in a number of years, and yet the 24 market value on their home has doubled and 25 tripled. Therefore, their taxes are more than

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(518) 371-8910 1 they can bear. I have people whose taxes are 2 more than 15, 20 percent of their income. A 3 senior citizen and many young families can't 4 handle this, and they can't afford to do all 5 the other things. 6 Many of our communities are finding 7 declining growth, no growth -- I guess that's 8 an opposite, declining growth. But there is 9 no growth, declining enrollment in the 10 schools. 11 We have to do something to make 12 New York State more affordable, and the one 13 way to do it is to help property taxes, not 14 only for the homeowner but for the commercial 15 businesses in our state as well. It's 16 something that they have to consider. 17 So I would say that the amendment 18 that was proposed does not go far enough, it 19 is not big enough, it does not help enough 20 people. 21 The bill that we have before us 22 today has the short-term plan, expanding the 23 STAR program. And whether you like it or not, 24 in my district two years ago, the STAR program 25 paid $45 million of school taxes for

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(518) 371-8910 1 year-round residents. People complaining 2 about their property taxes -- and they are -- 3 would complain all the more if that 4 $45 million had to be paid by the homeowners. 5 STAR has benefited New York State 6 residents. Expanding the STAR will help in 7 the short term. But don't kid yourselves, 8 it's a complicated process. We need to 9 examine the whole system: the real property 10 offices, the meanings of assessment, the way 11 we are doing the whole thing and how we are 12 funding our schools. 13 So this bill with this blue-ribbon 14 commission I think is step number one to get 15 us on the road to real property tax reform. I 16 urge all my colleagues to support this bill, 17 and I thank Senator Bruno for putting it on 18 the floor. 19 Thank you. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 21 Senator Little. 22 Senator Bonacic. 23 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you, 24 Mr. President. 25 I'm going to support this bill. We

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(518) 371-8910 1 all know that property tax and the burden that 2 it's putting on our constituents is probably 3 one of the biggest problems facing all elected 4 officials. 5 It's tough when you have to pay 6 rising taxes and it's not based on your 7 wealth. If I'm a poor family and I have to 8 pay taxes on a home that's $10,000 and right 9 next to me is a multimillionaire with the same 10 house, he has to pay $10,000. 11 And what's happening is that 12 hardworking families have to choose between 13 should I vote for these school budgets for the 14 education of my children, or should I vote 15 against these school budgets in order to pay 16 the mortgage and taxes on my house? That's 17 the choice that's facing many of our 18 constituents, not throughout the state of 19 New York but a lot of pockets in the state of 20 New York. 21 Now, in New York City, the property 22 tax burden is not as high outside New York 23 City. The Island, Hudson Valley, Westchester 24 County, and pockets upstate are getting 25 squeezed badly.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Now, let's talk of what we've done 2 in the past. I commend my colleagues on the 3 other side of the aisle who have gotten up and 4 said, We recognize there's a property tax 5 problem; I have this idea, with this 6 amendment. Senator Valesky: I have this 7 idea. You are at least cognizant of the 8 problem as a high priority to help our 9 constituents. 10 In fact, last year, together, we 11 voted to abolish the property tax, school 12 property taxes on primary homeowners in the 13 state of New York, with your support. What 14 happened? The Assembly did absolutely 15 nothing. 16 In 1994, Senator Cook, my 17 predecessor, voted to get away from the 18 property tax and go to an income tax. In '94, 19 a phaseout over years. The Assembly did 20 nothing. 21 Last year, we asked for a 22 blue-ribbon panel to study the school tax 23 problem. The Assembly did nothing, not even 24 in a committee. 25 So I'm glad we have partners in

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(518) 371-8910 1 this house that realize how acute this problem 2 is. But the Leibell, the Saland, the Bonacic 3 bill would have given every school district 4 the option to get away from school taxes and 5 have the state pick up that share. It would 6 have been a six-year phase-in at $9 billion. 7 And if the city didn't want it, they don't 8 have to do it. So we have addressed it. 9 But not having a partner in the 10 Assembly, we expand STAR. STAR last year -- 11 rough numbers, not exact -- 175 bucks for the 12 nonsenior that owned a home. If you were a 13 senior, you got about 300 bucks. This 14 two-year plan triples it over two years. 15 Governor Spitzer is talking 16 about -- and we'll find out next Wednesday in 17 his budget -- some kind of STAR expansion, 18 middle-class families. I congratulate him. 19 He recognizes there's a problem. Now we have 20 a partner in the Governor's office that's 21 trying to address it. 22 I happen to think that this bill, 23 it's good because it does provide some relief. 24 It doesn't provide the structural changes that 25 we need when we come back here, when the STAR

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(518) 371-8910 1 money runs out and taxes keep going up. Five 2 to ten years from now, the Senate and the 3 Assembly will be still talking about 4 escalating property taxes. 5 So if we're really going to bite 6 the bullet, we have to take the school taxes 7 away from primary homeowners, put it at the 8 state level, fund it. And that is the way we 9 would like to proceed in the Senate. And I 10 know many of you do, by the vote which I have 11 in front of me, and I thank you for that. 12 But this is all we have today. And 13 I will continue to support this. But it's not 14 a cure. It's not really the structural remedy 15 that we need. 16 Thank you very much, Mr. President. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 18 Senator Bonacic. 19 Are there any other members that 20 wish to speak on this bill? 21 The Secretary will ring the bell. 22 The debate is closed. We'll give 23 some of the members who are not in the chamber 24 a chance to join us. 25 The Secretary will read the last

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(518) 371-8910 1 section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 13. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Nozzolio, 7 to explain his vote. 8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 9 I rise to explain my vote. 10 Mr. President and my colleagues, I 11 rise to support this desperately needed 12 legislation. Senator Little framed it well, 13 that our overburdened taxpayers are being 14 crushed by, particularly, the property tax. 15 That New Yorkers, and upstate 16 homeowners specifically, are extremely 17 stressed. They're stressed for their 18 financial future. They believe their children 19 will inherit a far worse New York State than 20 their parents gave to them. 21 This is a signal to our upstate 22 taxpayers that reform is on the way in the 23 form of property tax relief. Financial peace 24 of mind is the very least that this house can 25 forge on behalf of our constituents. And that

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(518) 371-8910 1 the time is now to reform the outdated, 2 burdening, crushing property tax system. 3 I support this legislation, 4 Mr. President. I urge my colleagues to do the 5 same. Our property taxpayers deserve to have 6 their burden eased. 7 Thank you very much. 8 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Libous 9 will be recorded in the affirmative -- I'm 10 sorry, Senator Nozzolio will be recorded in 11 the affirmative. 12 Senator Marcellino, to explain his 13 vote. 14 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, 15 Mr. President. Thank you. 16 I rise also to support this bill. 17 I think it's long overdue. The issue of 18 property tax impacts my district greatly, and 19 my constituents are constantly asking me to 20 come up here and do something about their 21 property taxes, and I'm glad to see we've 22 taken a good first step. I'd like to see it 23 go a lot more and do a lot more, but it's a 24 good first step in the process. 25 I would just caution that any

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(518) 371-8910 1 further movement towards getting off property 2 tax and moving over other forms of taxes we 3 need to discuss and we need to study 4 carefully, lest we shift one burden to another 5 and overly impact certain districts and 6 certain other areas of the state. 7 However, that being said, this bill 8 does a good job, this bill is positive. It 9 will go a long way in protect our hardworking, 10 overburdened taxpayers, particularly the 11 property owners of the state of New York. But 12 as I said earlier, it's only a first step in 13 my mind. We need to do a lot more. 14 I will vote aye. 15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 16 Marcellino will be recorded in the 17 affirmative. 18 Senator Libous. 19 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, 20 Mr. President. 21 Senator Little, thank you for your 22 explanation and certainly your support of this 23 legislation. 24 Over the past two years, in going 25 throughout my district, the taxpayers of the

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(518) 371-8910 1 Southern Tier have made it very clear to me 2 that they cannot afford a penny more when it 3 comes to property taxes. We did give some 4 relief last year, but that was only the 5 beginning. 6 This legislation goes a long way in 7 helping senior citizens who are on fixed 8 incomes who cannot afford to pay their 9 property taxes in many cases, helping young 10 families, the forgotten middle class who are 11 trying to make ends meet every day, trying to 12 share in the American dream of homeownership 13 and with that American dream of homeownership, 14 raise a family. 15 These are the people that are going 16 to be most affected by this piece of 17 legislation which is so badly needed. 18 On top of that, we in the Southern 19 Tier most recently were hit six months ago 20 with a very devastating flood. That flood 21 wiped out many homes. And unfortunately, 22 Mr. President, some of those people have to 23 pay the very, very high taxes on homes that 24 don't even exist. 25 This house passed legislation at

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(518) 371-8910 1 the end of last session to help relieve that, 2 and I hope that we will do it again and that 3 this time the Assembly will partner with us. 4 But reducing property taxes, in my 5 opinion, is the most important thing we can do 6 legislatively this year in helping the 7 overburdened taxpayer -- certainly the fixed 8 income, the middle income, and young families 9 who are trying to begin the process and stay 10 in New York. 11 So I join my colleagues, I applaud 12 my colleagues for this legislation, and I say 13 to the people that I represent: This is only 14 the beginning. We will continue to work hard 15 throughout this session to relieve you from 16 the overburden of taxes, particularly property 17 taxes, that exist in this state. 18 I vote aye. 19 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 20 Senator Libous. 21 Senator Libous will be recorded in 22 the affirmative, as I predicted earlier today. 23 (Laughter.) 24 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Winner. 25 SENATOR WINNER: Thank you,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. Just briefly to explain my 2 vote. 3 I certainly rise in support of this 4 legislation, but I also want to put another 5 little equation on the table when we're 6 dealing with this proposal. And that equation 7 is the fact that there are places in this 8 state that are not experiencing huge increases 9 in value of their real property, and yet those 10 places are suffering under tremendous 11 percentages of taxation that in many instances 12 are between 4 and 5 percent of their value. 13 Those percentages of value result 14 in basically your buying your house back every 15 25 years for your real property tax payments. 16 And we need to make sure that we're addressing 17 those imbalances in areas that are not 18 achieving high real estate value growth, 19 because in those areas they're getting the 20 double whammy -- not only are they paying high 21 burdens in property taxes, but their property 22 values are not growing as well. 23 So, Mr. President, I think that 24 there was a study that went out from the Tax 25 Foundation, rankings that showed a number of

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(518) 371-8910 1 counties that have overburdened tax rates, and 2 those areas are the areas in which the 3 property values are lower. 4 So I think this bill that is on the 5 floor today goes a long way to meet that, 6 because the STAR program directly relates to 7 relief in that arena. So I support this 8 measure, and I hope that this body going 9 forward, in talking about additional real 10 property relief, will take into account those 11 circumstances where we have areas that are not 12 achieving the high growth. 13 Thank you, Mr. President. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Winner 15 will be recorded in the affirmative. 16 Senator Robach, to explain his 17 vote. 18 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes, 19 Mr. President. I too rise to support this. 20 I think that we've in a good way 21 had a lot of dialogue recently about trying to 22 be responsive to the public in a lot of areas, 23 whether it's been budget reform or other 24 aspects of what we do here. 25 For us in our world, property taxes

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(518) 371-8910 1 is real as rain for the people we represent in 2 upstate New York. Whether you're a new 3 family -- and I still believe in the American 4 dream of owning your own home -- those high 5 taxes are an extra burden. Or if you're on 6 the other end of the extreme, where you're a 7 senior citizen who may have lost a spouse but 8 want to end your years in dignity in the home 9 you may have raised your children in and been 10 in a long time, this is critically important. 11 We are being responsive today to 12 those people on something that really does 13 affect them. It is not ideology, it is not 14 opinion, it is real, real stuff. And this is 15 very, very good. 16 I have some people that live along 17 Lake Ontario whose property tax portion of 18 their bill is bigger than their mortgage 19 payment, even in their first year of owning 20 the home. This will go to address a lot of 21 that, and I think it's very good. 22 And I also want to say I am very 23 optimistic. We have voted for this almost 24 every year I've been in the Senate, but this 25 year I feel like we may have a chance to

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(518) 371-8910 1 really accomplish something and get this done. 2 With you, Mr. Lieutenant Governor, and the 3 Executive now on board and talking the same 4 language, I am hoping, after we pass this, 5 we'll be able to have a little bit more 6 dialogue on the merits of this with the other 7 house, and really not just pass this bill in 8 the Senate but get this through all parts of 9 the Legislature working together and really 10 make a substantial difference for, as all my 11 colleagues have pointed out, the overburdened 12 taxpayers of New York. 13 And whether combined taxes -- I 14 literally was at a meeting where people were 15 saying we're not really number one in combined 16 taxes, we're number two. It doesn't matter if 17 we're one or two. While we do have a lot of 18 great programs in New York, we have to make it 19 affordable for people all across the spectrum, 20 upstate and down, to be able to live in their 21 homes and maintain them. 22 This goes very well to this, so I 23 am very happy to cast my vote in the 24 affirmative. 25 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Robach

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(518) 371-8910 1 will be recorded in the affirmative. 2 The chair recognizes Senator 3 Saland, to explain his vote. 4 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 5 Mr. President. 6 It is not a cliche to say that 7 taxpayers, particularly real property 8 taxpayers, are overburdened; it is regrettably 9 a very unfortunate reality. 10 And we don't distinguish by age. 11 There are certainly senior citizen who at 12 times have to make the most critical of 13 decisions as to what to pay, whether it's a 14 medical bill, whether it's a pharmaceutical 15 bill, whether it's the real property tax bill. 16 Young people trying to establish a family, 17 young people trying to trying to buy their 18 first home, young people in their first home. 19 Two working-member households. The vast 20 majority of people are struggling to pay their 21 property taxes. 22 When we created this program last 23 year, it effectively established a beachhead. 24 Well, we are now expanding that beachhead. We 25 are ultimately quadrupling it -- first

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(518) 371-8910 1 tripling it and then quadrupling it, providing 2 tax relief, much-needed tax relief across the 3 entire spectrum of those who own real property 4 and are paying those significant real property 5 taxes. 6 It is, however, not the panacea. 7 It is not the cure-all. It is not the fix. 8 It is a form of relief. The system requires 9 reform and change. That remains our task. 10 The blue-ribbon commission that is part of 11 this certainly is a step in that right 12 direction. The legislation that this house 13 passed, which I sponsored, along with Senator 14 Bonacic and Senator Leibell, goes a long way 15 in that same direction. 16 And hopefully this will elicit a 17 response from the other house, as well as the 18 interest expressed by the new executive, 19 Governor Spitzer, can bring us all together 20 and try and deal not merely with relief but 21 with reform. 22 Mr. President, as you can well 23 surmise, I vote in favor of this measure. 24 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 25 will record Senator Saland in the affirmative.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator DeFrancisco, to explain his 2 vote. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Thank you, 4 Mr. President. 5 I too rise in support of this 6 legislation to give much-needed property tax 7 relief to the citizens of Central New York as 8 well as all over the state. 9 It's a significant piece of 10 legislation because it returns money directly 11 to the taxpayer. And that was done 12 successfully last year, and now it's going to 13 be quadrupled this year if we could get 14 agreement by the other house and the 15 Governor's office. 16 In any event, whether this is the 17 exact legislation or not, there's no doubt, 18 from the discussion that we've heard from the 19 executive branch, that there is going to be 20 property tax relief for the taxpayers in this 21 state, much-needed property tax relief. 22 However, the fact of the matter is 23 whether you call it property tax or any other 24 tax, unless the cost of government decreases, 25 we're going to be looking for other revenues.

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(518) 371-8910 1 So coupled with this, it is essential that the 2 highest-rising cost in this government, 3 Medicaid, has to be brought under control by 4 real reform of the system. Because the monies 5 that are being used for Medicaid now are 6 eating up monies that are needed for education 7 and every other source. 8 In addition, we must operate 9 government more efficiently -- from the state 10 level, from consolidation of services at the 11 local level, and, if possible, consolidation 12 of governments, local governments, so that 13 there is a situation where government is not 14 overlapping. 15 So this is a wonderful thing, tax 16 relief, for our property owners. However, we 17 need those other reforms. We need control 18 over the cost of all levels of government, and 19 including Medicaid and consolidation of 20 services of local governments. So hopefully 21 we can get the rest of this package completed 22 this year so that there will be long-lasting 23 property tax relief for everyone in the State 24 of New York. 25 I vote aye.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 2 DeFrancisco will be recorded in the 3 affirmative. 4 The chair now recognizes, to 5 explain his vote, the distinguished Senator 6 from Rockland County, Senator Morahan. 7 SENATOR MORAHAN: Thank you, 8 Mr. President. 9 Obviously this bill starts the 10 progress we want to make this year on property 11 tax reform. It started last year in the 12 Senate with the rebate program directly to the 13 taxpayers, and certainly it was well received. 14 This bill, which will triple and quadruple 15 that benefit over the next two years, really 16 will be a significant piece of legislation. 17 But what I'm really optimistic 18 about is we have the Governor talking tax 19 reform, we have the tax relief, we have that 20 sort of conversation now with the Assembly. 21 And I think even local governments and school 22 districts recognize we must find a new way, 23 not just to raise the revenues but to control 24 the cost. 25 And Senator DeFrancisco put his

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(518) 371-8910 1 finger on a very, very important aspect of 2 state spending, and that's Medicaid and the 3 need for reform, investigations, and things 4 that will bring that under control. Quite 5 obviously, there's over $4 billion out there 6 to be saved which more than would offset this 7 increase each year and this relief that we're 8 proposing. 9 So I rise in support of this 10 legislation. As my fellow colleagues have 11 said, property tax is the biggest issue in the 12 state of New York. It's surpassing 13 healthcare, it's surpassing education. It's 14 property tax relief. And we not only have to 15 find a new way to drive the tax to those who 16 can afford it, like adding to this bill 17 circuit-breaker legislation that would allow 18 us to take care of the cost of living that's 19 happening to government but not to the incomes 20 of our people. 21 So I welcome this bill. I'm glad 22 it's early in January; I know the Governor 23 will be coming out next week with his budget 24 and we'll see his plan, and we're going to 25 probably negotiate hopefully a very rewarding

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(518) 371-8910 1 and a very rich rebate program, tax relief 2 program, for the people of the State of 3 New York. 4 Thank you, Mr. President. 5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Morahan 6 votes aye. 7 Senator Skelos, to explain his 8 vote. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, 10 Mr. President. 11 This is probably one of the most 12 significant pieces of legislation that we will 13 pass this year, because it will begin the 14 dialogue on how we can bring real property tax 15 relief to our constituents throughout the 16 state. 17 On Long Island we have some of the 18 highest taxes not only in the state but in the 19 nation. And our constituents, our taxpayers, 20 are crying out for relief. 21 What's important about this 22 legislation is that it indirectly recognizes 23 the fact that there are higher costs of living 24 and sometimes higher incomes in other areas of 25 the state, but you're not penalized for this.

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(518) 371-8910 1 There's no means testing in this. You will 2 get a percentage of your STAR program as a 3 rebate check, which I think is critically 4 important because there is a direct 5 relationship to the taxes that you pay. 6 It's my hope that when Governor 7 Spitzer brings out his budget next week that 8 there will not be a sleight of hand, that 9 there will not be means testing, or that you 10 will say property tax relief but cut school 11 aid so that taxes are raised in many districts 12 on the other hand and that in the end it's a 13 wash so there's no real property tax relief to 14 our constituents. 15 So I know, for one, I anxiously 16 await Governor Spitzer's budget release next 17 week, and I hope that he fully understands the 18 needs of suburban communities and upstate 19 communities and the real property tax burden 20 that we all suffer. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skelos 22 will be recorded in the affirmative. 23 Senator Duane, to explain his vote. 24 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, 25 Mr. President.

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(518) 371-8910 1 I just want to thank some of the 2 members on the other side of the aisle for 3 their very complimentary remarks on some of 4 the proposals that we put forward. And I'm 5 hopeful that we'll be able to move forward on 6 this important issue of property tax in a 7 bipartisan manner and that we can each 8 regularly be voting in the affirmative for 9 proposals which come from both sides of the 10 aisle. 11 I'll be voting yes, Mr. President. 12 Thank you. 13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Duane 14 will be recorded in the affirmative. 15 Are there any other members that 16 would like to explain their vote? 17 Senator Griffo. 18 SENATOR GRIFFO: Thank you, 19 Mr. President. 20 I come as a freshman to this body 21 and, as a former local official, each and 22 every day saw and heard the concerns of the 23 citizens of our community relative to the 24 property tax and the significant burden that 25 this placed upon their future and their

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(518) 371-8910 1 families' lives. 2 So today I think this step is 3 significant because it indicates to people 4 that we recognize this problem, that we're 5 being attentive and responsive to this 6 situation. And I think that's the important 7 thing. If I have heard anything throughout my 8 time in government, it is that there is 9 erosion in competence that exists in 10 government, and that erosion develops because 11 we neglect to deal with the issues at hand. 12 And this particular issue is 13 significant. And today this measure is a 14 significant step in the right direction, but 15 there's much more to do. And I'm encouraged 16 by the opportunities that present themselves 17 from both sides of the aisle, so that we, 18 despite the differences we may have on where 19 we should be on a breaker, more or less, that 20 we come to some consensus ultimately that we 21 will provide necessary and significant 22 property tax relief which will encourage 23 economic growth but, more importantly, be 24 helpful to the families that we serve across 25 this state.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Thank you. I vote aye. 2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Griffo 3 will be recorded in the affirmative. 4 Senator Diaz, to explain his vote. 5 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, 6 Mr. President. 7 It's an honor to address you as my 8 Senate President for the first time and 9 congratulate you on your position. 10 I'm voting yes on this bill. 11 However, I have to say that this Democratic 12 side, we Democrats, since I came to this 13 Senate, we have shown our support, we have 14 shown our interest in helping the people of 15 the State of New York and decreasing their 16 taxes. 17 Even today, today we are showing, 18 by an amendment to you by Senator Valesky and 19 Senator Cousins, that we really want something 20 that really helps the people. I'm very proud 21 that my Democratic colleagues, Senator Valesky 22 and Senator Cousins, has introduced an 23 amendment to give bigger help to senior 24 citizens, that they deserve that. And I'm 25 very sad that that side rejected those

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(518) 371-8910 1 amendments. 2 I'm voting yes because I'm thinking 3 to help senior citizens and to help the people 4 of New York, I will take whatever it is, even 5 though it is not enough and even though I'm 6 sad that Senator Valesky, Senator Cousins' 7 amendments were denied and were rejected by 8 that side. However, that's all we get? I'm 9 voting yes. But we could have done better if 10 we would have said Senator Valesky, Democrat 11 Senator Valesky and Democratic Senator 12 Stewart-Cousins' amendments. 13 My President, that's my complaint. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Diaz will 15 be recorded in the affirmative. 16 Senator Sampson, to explain his 17 vote. 18 SENATOR SAMPSON: Mr. President, 19 I rise in support of this bill and want to say 20 to my colleagues on the other side of the 21 aisle, we recognize the problem, not only in 22 the suburban counties but throughout the state 23 of New York. That's why we rise in support of 24 this. 25 But in addition, we want it to go

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(518) 371-8910 1 further. We want it to go further with the 2 amendments of our two colleagues, Senator 3 Valesky and Senator Cousins, because we 4 recognize and realize the problem. We want to 5 make sure that we cut those property taxes. 6 And we're looking forward to partnership with 7 the Executive to make that a reality. 8 So, my colleagues, this is a very 9 important day, but we could have gone further. 10 But you know what? This is just the first 11 step of many steps to make sure that we 12 provide relief, not only to New York City, but 13 relief to all suburban counties in the state 14 of New York. 15 Thank you very much, Mr. President. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Sampson 17 will be recorded in the affirmative. 18 Senator Fuschillo, to explain his 19 vote. 20 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you, 21 Mr. President. 22 First of all, it's nice that we all 23 agree. This is the first time in a long time. 24 And what Senator Duane said, I couldn't agree 25 with him more. It may shock some of you.

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(518) 371-8910 1 This is not a partisan issue, 2 providing tax relief to the residents of the 3 state, whether it's upstate, the inner cities, 4 or on the Island. Wherever I go, I could ask 5 anybody, Tell me the three top issues of your 6 concern -- it's taxes, taxes and taxes. 7 They're being choked to death. 8 And it's such a game that I see of 9 all the districts and school districts and 10 municipal governments. And a village will 11 blame a town or a city, the town will blame 12 the county, and the county will blame the 13 state, the school district will blame the 14 state. Nobody takes credit, even though they 15 have all independent elected bodies that are 16 responsible for setting their own tax 17 jurisdictions, tax rates. 18 This is a major step forward. We 19 need, obviously, the other house to do it. By 20 all signals, the Governor is on board. He 21 wants to do it in three years, we want to do 22 it in two years. We want to accelerate it 23 because the tax relief is so necessary right 24 now. 25 But much more does need to be done,

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(518) 371-8910 1 and I'm glad I'm starting to hear that. 2 Because government has to be responsible. We 3 have to provide action. You know, we talk 4 about jobs, providing jobs and tax relief. We 5 should be talking about careers and providing 6 careers that people stay here in New York 7 State. And in order to make them stay here, 8 we have to make it affordable. So it is a 9 domino effect. 10 Today is a significant step, but 11 much more needs to be done. I'll be voting in 12 the affirmative. 13 Thank you, Mr. President. 14 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Fuschillo 15 will be recorded in the affirmative. 16 The chair recognizes Senator Klein 17 to explain his vote. 18 SENATOR KLEIN: Thank you, 19 Mr. President. 20 I too rise today in support of this 21 very important legislation, which I think 22 could have been improved if we adopted the two 23 measures by my two colleagues, Senator Valesky 24 and Senator Andrea Stewart-Cousins. 25 But I think what we're doing today

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(518) 371-8910 1 is a very, very important first step because 2 we're sending a message loud and clear to our 3 constituents that we hear their plea regarding 4 property taxes. 5 It's a very simple premise, which 6 is going on in my district, especially in 7 Westchester County, as well as around the 8 state. The price of everyone's home is going 9 up, thus enhancing their property tax, but 10 their income isn't going up. So I think what 11 we're doing today is a very, very important 12 first step in alleviating some of their 13 property tax burden. 14 The STAR program has been very, 15 very successful and our ability today to 16 enhance that program is something that's very, 17 very important. 18 I also look forward to doing more 19 on this issue. I don't think our work is done 20 yet today. Our new governor, Eliot Spitzer, 21 has made property tax relief his number-one 22 proposal, and I look forward in the way he's 23 going to be dealing with that in the budget. 24 But I know one of my colleagues, 25 Senator Saland, had a proposal last year which

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(518) 371-8910 1 I think certain pieces of that are certainly 2 worth looking into. 3 I think Senator Fuschillo said it 4 best, that a lot of our local school districts 5 in many ways blame us or blame the county or 6 blame their constituents. And what we're 7 doing with our constituents is sort of giving 8 them a Hobson's choice. They want great 9 education -- and in many cases these local 10 school districts are delivering that 11 education -- but they really don't want to pay 12 for it. 13 So I think we have to look at ways 14 that maybe we can allow our local school 15 districts a little more autonomy to figure out 16 ways that they can raise money to make sure 17 that our young people in overtaxed school 18 districts get the education they need and 19 deserve. 20 I vote yes, Mr. President. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Klein 22 will be recorded as voting in the affirmative. 23 The Secretary will announce the 24 results. 25 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in

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(518) 371-8910 1 the negative on Calendar Number 17 are 2 Senators Perkins, Schneiderman and Serrano. 3 Those Senators absent from voting 4 pursuant to Rule 9: Senators Johnson, 5 C. Kruger, Larkin, Leibell, Maziarz, 6 Montgomery, Oppenheimer, Parker and 7 Stachowski. 8 Absent from voting, Senator Connor. 9 Ayes, 46. Nays, 3. 10 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is 11 passed. 12 Senator Skelos. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 14 there will be no further substantive business 15 to be taken up today in the Senate, but there 16 may be some housekeeping. So if we could just 17 stand at ease. 18 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will 19 stand at ease. 20 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 21 ease at 12:30 p.m.) 22 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened 23 at 4:35 p.m.) 24 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ:

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Skelos. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: If we could 3 return to the order of motions and 4 resolutions. 5 I wish to call up bill Senate Print 6 Number 1322, recalled from the Assembly, which 7 is now at the desk. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 9 Secretary will read. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 38, by Senator Bruno, Senate Print 1322, an 12 act to amend the State Finance Law. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 14 now move to reconsider the vote by which the 15 bill was passed and ask that the bill be 16 restored to the order of third reading. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 18 Secretary will call the roll on 19 reconsideration. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. 22 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 23 now move to discharge, from the Committee on 24 Rules, Assembly Print Number 2755 and 25 substitute it for the identical bill, Senate

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(518) 371-8910 1 Print 1322. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 3 Substitution ordered. 4 SENATOR SKELOS: The Senate bill 5 on first passage was voted unanimously. I now 6 move that the substituted Assembly bill have 7 its third reading at this time. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 9 Secretary will read. 10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 11 38, by Member of the Assembly Farrell, 12 substituted earlier, Assembly Print Number 13 2755, an act to amend the State Finance Law. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Read 15 the last section. 16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 17 act shall take effect immediately. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 19 the roll. 20 (The Secretary called the roll.) 21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 23 bill is passed. 24 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 25 is there any further business at the desk?

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: There 2 is not, Senator Skelos. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: There being 4 none, I move we stand adjourned until Monday, 5 January 29th, at 3:00 p.m., intervening days 6 being legislative days. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: On 8 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until 9 Monday, January 29th, intervening days to be 10 legislative days. 11 (Whereupon, at 4:37 p.m., the 12 Senate adjourned.) 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

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(518) 371-8910