Wednesday, May 16, 2007

1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE 2 3 4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 May 16, 2007 11 11:04 a.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 LT. GOVERNOR DAVID A. PATERSON, President 19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24 25

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(518) 371-8910 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 3 Senate will come to order. 4 Please join me in reciting the 5 Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. 6 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 7 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: In the 9 absence of clergy, I would ask that you join 10 me for a moment of silent prayer. 11 (Whereupon, the assemblage 12 respected a moment of silence.) 13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: We will 14 now have the reading of the Journal. 15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 16 Tuesday, May 15, the Senate met pursuant to 17 adjournment. The Journal of Monday, May 14, 18 was read and approved. On motion, Senate 19 adjourned. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Without 21 objection, the Journal stands approved as 22 read. 23 Presentation of petitions. 24 Messages from the Assembly. 25 Messages from the Governor.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Reports of standing committees. 2 Reports of select committees. 3 Communications and reports from 4 state officers. 5 Motions and resolutions. 6 Senator Farley. 7 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, 8 Mr. President. 9 On behalf of Senator Fuschillo, I 10 wish to call up his bill, Print Number 5050, 11 which was recalled from the Assembly and it's 12 now at the desk. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 14 Secretary will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 755, by Senator Fuschillo, Senate Print 5050, 17 an act to amend the General Business Law. 18 SENATOR FARLEY: I now move to 19 reconsider the vote by which this bill was 20 passed. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call 22 the roll on reconsideration. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 41. 25 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, I

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(518) 371-8910 1 now move to recommit the bill to the Committee 2 on Consumer Protection. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: So 4 ordered. 5 SENATOR FARLEY: Mr. President, 6 on behalf of Senator Golden, on page 63 I 7 offer the following amendments to Calendar 8 Number 930, Senate Print 3333, and I ask that 9 this bill retain its place on the Third 10 Reading Calendar. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 12 amendments are received and adopted, and the 13 bill will retain its place on the Third 14 Reading Calendar. 15 Senator Savino. 16 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you, 17 Mr. President. 18 I move that the following bills be 19 discharged from their respective committees 20 and be recommitted with instructions to strike 21 the enacting clause: Senate Print 4197. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: So 23 ordered. 24 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Skelos. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 3 if we could make the substitution that's at 4 the desk at this time. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 6 Secretary will read. 7 THE SECRETARY: On page 63, 8 Senator Bruno moves to discharge, from the 9 Committee on Rules, Assembly Bill Number 8017 10 and substitute it for the identical Senate 11 Bill Number 5490A, Third Reading Calendar 969. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: 13 Substitution ordered. 14 Senator Skelos. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 16 there's a resolution at the desk by Senator 17 Carl Kruger. Could we have the title read and 18 move for its immediate adoption. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 20 clerk will read. 21 THE SECRETARY: By Senator C. 22 Kruger, Legislative Resolution Number 2288, 23 commending Yaakov and Rivka Kornreich upon the 24 occasion of their designation by Young Israel 25 of Avenue J as the guests of honor at its 28th

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(518) 371-8910 1 Annual Dinner on May 20, 2007. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: On the 3 resolution, all in favor signify by saying 4 aye. 5 (Response of "Aye.") 6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: 7 Opposed, nay. 8 (No response.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 10 resolution is carried. 11 Senator Skelos. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 13 there will be an immediate meeting of the 14 Rules Committee in the Majority Conference 15 Room. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: There 17 will be an immediate meeting of the Rules 18 Committee in the Majority Conference Room. 19 The Senate stands at ease. 20 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 21 ease at 11:08 a.m.) 22 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened 23 at 11:12 a.m.) 24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 25 Senate will come to order.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Skelos. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 3 if we could return to reports of standing 4 committees, there's a report of the Rules 5 Committee at the desk. I ask that it be read 6 at this time. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 8 Secretary will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 10 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 11 following bill direct to third reading: 12 Assembly Print Number 8360, by Member of the 13 Assembly Gunther, an act to amend the Tax Law. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 15 move to accept the report of the Rules 16 Committee. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 18 motion is on accepting the report of the Rules 19 Committee. All in favor say aye. 20 (Response of "Aye.") 21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: 22 Opposed, nay. 23 (No response.) 24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 25 Rules report is accepted.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 2 if we could go to the noncontroversial reading 3 of the calendar. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 5 Secretary will read. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 97, by Senator Maziarz, Senate Print 1617, an 8 act to amend the Civil Service Law, in 9 relation to leaves of absence. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 42. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 413, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 3748A, an 22 act to amend the Retirement and Social 23 Security Law, in relation to increasing. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read 25 the last section.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 42. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 560, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 3757, an 11 act to amend the Civil Service Law, in 12 relation to collecting interest. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 22 bill is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 696, by Senator Maltese, Senate Print 5374A, 25 an act to amend the Labor Law, in relation to

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(518) 371-8910 1 establishing a task force. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 809, by Senator Marcellino, Senate Print 4374, 14 an act to authorize the Christian City Church 15 of New York City, Inc., to file an 16 application. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 24 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 25 the negative on Calendar Number 809 are

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senators Bonacic and Larkin. 2 Ayes, 43. Nays, 2. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 836, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 7 4257, an act to amend the Uniform Justice 8 Court Act and the Judiciary Law, in relation 9 to temporary assignment. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 45. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 19 bill is passed. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 843, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 22 4988, an act to amend the Surrogate's Court 23 Procedure Act, in relation to providing. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read 25 the last section.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect on the first of January. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 8 bill is passed. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 854, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 1991, an 11 act relating to authorizing and directing the 12 Commissioner of General Services. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 22 bill is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 881, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 195, an 25 act to authorize the City of Newburgh to

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(518) 371-8910 1 establish. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: There 3 is a home-rule message present at the desk. 4 Read the last section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call 8 the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 12 bill is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 883, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 588, an 15 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 16 relation to participants. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The

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(518) 371-8910 1 bill is passed. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 884, by Senator Flanagan, Senate Print 900, an 4 act to authorize the Holy Cross Roman Catholic 5 Church to retroactively apply. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read 7 the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49. Nays, 14 2. Senators Bonacic and Larkin recorded in 15 the negative. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 17 bill is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 886, by Senator Libous, Senate Print 2150, an 20 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in 21 relation to establishing an exemption. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read 23 the last section. 24 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 25 act shall take effect immediately.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 892, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 4000, an 9 act to amend Chapter 383 of the Laws of 1999 10 relating to creating. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 895, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 4490, an 23 act to authorize Congregation Aish Kodesh to 24 file an application. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read

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(518) 371-8910 1 the last section. 2 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 3 act shall take effect immediately. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call 5 the roll. 6 (The Secretary called the roll.) 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49. Nays, 8 2. Senators Bonacic and Larkin recorded in 9 the negative. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 896, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 4734, an 14 act in relation to authorizing the assessor of 15 the Town of Brookhaven to accept an 16 application. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49. Nays, 25 2. Senators Bonacic and Larkin recorded in

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(518) 371-8910 1 the negative. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 897, by Senator Farley, Senate Print 4799, an 6 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in 7 relation to residential investment exemption. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 17 bill is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 903, by Senator Little, Senate Print 5491, an 20 act to amend the General Municipal Law, in 21 relation to certain county contracts. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read 23 the last section. 24 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 25 act shall take effect immediately.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54. Nays, 5 1. Senator Duane recorded in the negative. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 7 bill is passed. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 914, by Senator Morahan, Senate Print 4351, an 10 act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law, in 11 relation to settlement. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read 13 the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call 17 the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 21 bill is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 922, by Senator Hannon, Senate Print 4660, an 24 act to amend Chapter 672 of the Laws of 1993, 25 amending the Public Authorities Law.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 10 bill is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 926, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 5160, an 13 act to amend Chapter 672 of the Laws of 1993, 14 amending the Public Authorities Law. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Read 16 the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call 20 the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 24 bill is passed. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number

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(518) 371-8910 1 969, substituted earlier today by Member of 2 the Assembly -- 3 SENATOR DUANE: Lay it aside. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Lay it 5 aside. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 1123, by Member of the Assembly Gunther, 8 Assembly Print Number 8360, an act to amend 9 the Tax Law, in relation to Sullivan County. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: There 11 is a local fiscal impact statement at the 12 desk. 13 Read the last section. 14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 15 act shall take effect immediately. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call 17 the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 56. Nays, 20 1. Senator Valesky recorded in the negative. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 22 bill is passed. 23 Senator Skelos, that completes the 24 noncontroversial reading of the calendar. 25 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. If we could go to the 2 controversial reading at this time. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 4 Secretary will ring the bell. 5 The Secretary will read. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 969, by Member of the Assembly Sweeney, 8 Assembly Print Number 8017, an act relating to 9 limited exemptions. 10 SENATOR DUANE: Explanation, 11 please. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 13 Marcellino, an explanation has been requested. 14 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, 15 Mr. President. This legislation would allow 16 certain paints to be sold until July 16, 2007. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 18 Duane. 19 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, 20 Mr. President. 21 Is this AIM coating considered 22 toxic? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Are you 24 asking Senator Marcellino to yield for a 25 question, Senator Duane?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DUANE: Yes, I am, 2 Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 4 Marcellino, will you yield for a question? 5 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, 6 Mr. President. 7 The DEC set regs that require that 8 this paint no longer be sold by a certain 9 date. The bill has passed the Assembly just 10 last night, unanimously. The Governor will 11 get it. The DEC commissioner has said he will 12 do a delay of enforcement because there's a 13 gap between when the bill was passed and when 14 it would come into effect. So everybody is on 15 board with the movement of this bill. 16 It would help certain small 17 businesses, who have approximately $20 million 18 worth of inventory still in stock, to move 19 some of this inventory off the shelves. If 20 it's not moved by this particular date, they 21 will donate it to various charitable housing 22 charities and it will be used anyway. 23 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 24 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue 25 to yield.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 2 Marcellino, would you continue to yield for 3 further questions? 4 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, sir. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 6 Duane. 7 SENATOR DUANE: Is this AIM 8 coating considered toxic? 9 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I don't 10 know, Senator. 11 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 12 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue 13 to yield. 14 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 16 Marcellino yields, Senator Duane. 17 SENATOR DUANE: Why is it not 18 being manufactured anymore? 19 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I'm sorry, 20 but I can't hear the gentleman. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 22 Duane, please repeat the question. 23 SENATOR DUANE: Why is this 24 coating no longer being manufactured? 25 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I don't know

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(518) 371-8910 1 that it's no longer being manufactured. 2 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 3 Mr. President, why was the original expiration 4 date set? 5 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I don't know 6 that. I didn't set it, Senator. That was set 7 by the DEC, so I have no idea what their 8 requirements are. 9 SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President, I 10 think I'll just speak on the bill, then. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 12 Duane, on the bill. 13 SENATOR DUANE: I am disturbed, 14 to say the least, that the sponsor of this 15 legislation doesn't seem to even know why this 16 legislation is necessary or what's going on 17 with it or whether this coating is toxic and 18 why it's being taken off the market and why 19 are we only extending its -- I mean, I can't 20 believe the lack of knowledge on this. 21 If the sponsor doesn't know, how 22 are the rest of us supposed to know? 23 So I would suggest that we don't go 24 along with this until we have a hearing to get 25 some answers to our questions.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Again, I'm just -- I'm shocked, 2 shocked that we can't get any answers on this 3 issue. Of course no one wants to hurt small 4 businesses. But maybe the question is why are 5 manufacturers manufacturing what I have come 6 to understand is a toxic substance. 7 And who cares whether the Assembly 8 passed it unanimously? That's not an 9 explanation for the bill. And why would we be 10 donating toxic substances to nonprofit 11 organizations? So they can poison their -- I 12 don't get that. 13 So I don't understand why we're 14 rushing this through. Didn't we know about 15 this issue months ago? Why is this bill just 16 arriving today and needs to be pushed through 17 today? 18 So I just think it's the worst kind 19 of legislating. And if we're going to 20 supposedly be reforming how we do things 21 around here, let's at least know what we're 22 voting on and have information on why it is 23 that bills are coming before us. 24 Thank you, Mr. President. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank

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(518) 371-8910 1 you, Senator Duane. 2 Is there any other Senator wishing 3 to be heard? 4 Senator Little, on the bill. 5 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you, 6 Mr. President. 7 I would like to thank Senator 8 Marcellino for putting forth this bill. 9 This is a type of paint that has 10 been decided that it can no longer be used in 11 this state. However, the date when it had to 12 be taken off the shelves did not allow enough 13 time for this paint to be sold. And this 14 paint has been used for years and years and 15 years in New York State. 16 I have heard from many of my retail 17 stores in my district who sell this paint, who 18 no longer buy it. But rather than have to 19 absorb the costs of the paint that they 20 bought, they would like to be able to sell 21 this paint, and they feel they need another 22 60 days. In a rural area, you have to 23 understand, you don't get as many sales as you 24 get in a larger area. 25 So I appreciate the fact that this

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(518) 371-8910 1 bill has been put forward. After that certain 2 date, it will no longer be sold in New York 3 State and we will be in compliance. We're 4 just asking for a few more days in order to 5 sell the stock that these small rural stores 6 already have. 7 Thank you. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank 9 you, Senator Little. 10 Senator Farley, on the bill. 11 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes. Senator 12 Duane, this is not a big deal. 13 This is paint that has been sold 14 for years and years in this state. The big 15 box stores -- the Wal-Marts, the Lowe's, the 16 Home Depots -- they're just sending this paint 17 out to another state to be sold. 18 The small little retailer that is 19 around in our districts, and I think in almost 20 every Senator's district, is stuck with this 21 paint. They came up with an arbitrary date 22 for which they had to get rid of the paint. 23 There wasn't enough time for these small 24 little retailers to unload the paint in a sale 25 or whatever it might be. All this bill does

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(518) 371-8910 1 is give them a little bit more time. 2 And I think every Senator in this 3 house has some sort of a small retailer that 4 does not have outlets out of state where they 5 could ship the paint to. And this just allows 6 the small retailer to get rid of the paint at 7 a retail basis. And a number of them have 8 complained about this. 9 And I don't think DEC, when they 10 came up with this arbitrary date, really 11 intended that the small guy would get stuck 12 with the paint and the big box stores would be 13 able to get rid of it. 14 I support the bill, and I urge 15 everybody to vote for it. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank 17 you, Senator Farley. 18 Senator Seward. 19 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, 20 Mr. President. I too would like to rise and 21 thank Senator Marcellino for his leadership in 22 presenting this legislation that's before us 23 at this time. 24 Just building on what Senator 25 Little and Senator Farley have outlined, this

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(518) 371-8910 1 bill is in response to emergency rules that 2 were promulgated over at DEC regarding 3 reducing the emissions of these VOCs which are 4 in paints that have been manufactured prior to 5 January 1, 2005. 6 And it is important. I think no 7 one is disagreeing with getting these off the 8 shelves in New York State. But as has been 9 explained, DEC came in with this emergency 10 rule right in the wintertime when many of 11 our -- particularly our small paint shops just 12 weren't able to sell their product because it 13 was wintertime. Nobody was out there painting 14 their houses in December, January and 15 February. 16 And so the May 15th date -- spring 17 has come a little late in many of our areas, 18 and they're still not painting. They're just 19 starting to. So between now and July 16th, 20 extension of this date will allow our 21 particularly small retailers to sell the 22 product that they've already bought and have 23 no way of recouping that investment unless 24 they sell the paints. That will give them 25 ample time to get these paints off their

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(518) 371-8910 1 shelves. And then from July 16 on, it will be 2 a whole different ball game. 3 So this is a commonsense approach, 4 it's pro-business, pro-environment, and I'm 5 very pleased to support the bill. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank 7 you, Senator Seward. 8 Senator Craig Johnson. 9 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 10 you, Mr. President. 11 I rise to support the legislation, 12 as the ranking member of the Environmental 13 Conservation Committee, but to also thank 14 Senator Duane for raising these questions 15 because I think it's important, you know, for 16 the entire Senate body to raise these 17 questions and to seek those answers because 18 they are valid, important points. And I think 19 it's troubling that we weren't able to have 20 those answers. 21 But I think it does provide us, as 22 Senator Seward talks about, with a commonsense 23 solution. 24 But we should be mindful that this 25 is an absolute deadline. We're willing to

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(518) 371-8910 1 give our small retailers a chance to sell off 2 this product, but I don't want to be back here 3 in June, I don't want to be back here next 4 year that we have to do some sort of 5 retroactive ability to let these small 6 retailers sell it off. An additional 60 days 7 is worthwhile, it's necessary, it allows them 8 the time to get it off their shelves. But at 9 that point, that's it. 10 And we need to continue to protect 11 our environment and continue to prevent these 12 types of paints from going out into the public 13 realm, because we don't know what the impacts 14 are going to be on the health, the welfare and 15 the safety of our children and of our parents 16 and of our grandparents. 17 So I commend Senator Duane for 18 raising the questions. I thank Senator 19 Marcellino for sponsoring this bill. And I 20 vote yes. Thank you very much. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 22 DeFrancisco, why do you rise? 23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 24 Senator Johnson answer a question? 25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Order,

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(518) 371-8910 1 guys. 2 Senator Johnson, will you yield for 3 a question from Senator DeFrancisco? 4 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: I don't 5 know. But sure. Why not. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 7 DeFrancisco. 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: You're the 9 ranking member of the Environmental 10 Conservation Committee? 11 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Yes. 12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Could you 13 please answer Senator Duane's questions? 14 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Well, I 15 can't. I don't have the -- 16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would you 17 do it, please? 18 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: But I'm 19 also not the sponsor of the bill. And I think 20 that what's appropriate is the sponsor of the 21 bill stood up and told the Senate -- I'm not 22 even on the bill. That's a very valid point. 23 Nor was I even asked to be on the bill. 24 But the valid point is that Senator 25 Marcellino is the sponsor of the bill, Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Marcellino is the one who is pushing forth the 2 bill, it went through Rules. And actually 3 maybe Senator DeFrancisco can ask the chairman 4 of Rules to answer the very same question. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 6 DeFrancisco, why do you rise? 7 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would the 8 Senator yield to another question? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 10 Johnson, will you continue to yield? 11 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: I will 12 always yield to questions, unlike other 13 members. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 15 DeFrancisco. 16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 17 Johnson, you voted yes in committee? 18 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Yes, and 19 I will vote yes here as well. 20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: And could 21 you just answer one last question? 22 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: I will 23 continue to yield for the last question. 24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would you 25 recommend, based upon your study of this bill,

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(518) 371-8910 1 to Senator Duane that this bill should be 2 voted in the affirmative because his concerns 3 are not well founded? Would you be willing 4 to -- 5 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: I'm 6 sorry, could you repeat the question? I'm 7 trying to formulate the answer as you're 8 asking me the question. 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: My question 10 is, since you voted for the bill, since 11 obviously you know the answer to the questions 12 Senator Duane raised -- 13 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Oh, I 14 don't know the answer to the questions Senator 15 Duane raised. I don't think Senator 16 Marcellino knows the same answers. I don't 17 think any of us know the answers to the same 18 questions, so -- 19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Can we 20 allow Senator DeFrancisco to ask the question. 21 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: I 22 apologize, Mr. President. 23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 24 Johnson, since you don't know the answer to 25 these questions which you just said were valid

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(518) 371-8910 1 questions by Senator Duane, what was your 2 basis for voting yes in committee and for 3 voting yes today? 4 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Oh, I 5 think it was similar to a lot of us voting for 6 the very same bill, is the need -- is while 7 we're giving the small retail businesses the 8 ability to sell off this paint, we're also 9 setting a drop-dead date of July 16, 2007. So 10 we're doing the appropriate balance, the 11 deliberative balance that we need to provide 12 for our small businesses and for our 13 environment. 14 What I'm also pointing out is 15 important is that we've set now the drop-dead 16 date. Well, the original drop-dead date was 17 set. Of course, we don't know why that date 18 was set; that was another question asked by 19 Senator Duane. But we've now extended it by 20 60 days to give small businesses the ability 21 to sell off -- because it is important. They 22 don't have the ability to do it quickly like 23 the Wal-Marts and the Lowe's. 24 So I'm willing to join my 25 colleagues on your side of the aisle, Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 DeFrancisco, to give them that ability to do 2 it while also protecting our environment. 3 No more? Okay, thank you. 4 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Adams. 5 SENATOR ADAMS: Yeah, I rise and 6 I ask, Mr. President, would the sponsor of the 7 bill yield for a question? 8 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, the 9 sponsor yields. 10 SENATOR ADAMS: I'm trying to 11 decide which way I'm going to vote, so I need 12 a little assistance. 13 Through you, Mr. President, is the 14 paint -- is it considered dangerous? Has it 15 be classified as dangerous by any governmental 16 body at all? 17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: The DEC has 18 determined that this paint should no longer be 19 sold in the State of New York because, when 20 you open the container, certain compounds are 21 released. 22 They set a date. When I was asked 23 why the reason for the date, I have no idea, 24 because I wasn't part of that negotiations, 25 I'm not a member of the DEC, I'm not employed

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(518) 371-8910 1 by them. The date was set by them. It was 2 purely an arbitrary date on their part to set 3 that up. They will tell you that. 4 They are on board with this bill. 5 The DEC supports this bill. The commissioner 6 has said he will set aside any enforcement -- 7 because there is a gap when this bill is being 8 pass and will be signed, as to when the 9 original deadline, which was yesterday, was to 10 come into effect. So there will be no 11 enforcement of this bill in the gap because 12 Commissioner Grannis has said he will delay 13 that by an order of his. 14 The Governor I assume is on board, 15 because Mr. Grannis works for him. So the 16 bill is going to go immediately to the 17 Governor's office, according to the Assembly, 18 and will be signed by the Governor. 19 So everyone is on board to do this 20 for these businesses. They will take this 21 paint and donate it to charities who will use 22 it. Housing groups that build affordable 23 housing for people, they will use this paint. 24 As was stated before, it is being used all 25 over the country now. These are small

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(518) 371-8910 1 mom-and-pop operations that cannot simply 2 offload it. They have not got the ability. 3 I was asked by Senator Krueger 4 earlier, couldn't they just give it back. 5 Well, the answer is no. It was legally 6 produced. It was legal when it was purchased. 7 It was determined by the DEC to be -- not to 8 be sold by a particular date. Their reasons 9 are theirs. 10 So what we're doing, as has been 11 stated by my colleagues and as I stated 12 earlier, and has been stated by Senator 13 Johnson, is simply giving the small business 14 person the opportunity to move some product so 15 that they don't get buried with the cost of 16 this particular product on their shelves. 17 That's all we're doing. 18 There will be no other bills, by 19 the way, to answer Senator Johnson. There 20 will be no other bills that this Senator will 21 permit out of the Environmental Conservation 22 Committee to extend any deadlines. This is 23 it. 24 SENATOR ADAMS: Mr. President, 25 would the sponsor yield for another question?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, I will 2 yield. 3 SENATOR ADAMS: Did the DEC state 4 by extending the two-month period that the 5 danger level would change in any way? Would 6 the danger level still be the same two months 7 later? 8 SENATOR MARCELLINO: No, we have 9 nothing from the DEC on this. I can only 10 assume -- and you know the adage, when you 11 assume, the danger you take on. We can only 12 assume that the DEC determines that there is 13 no credible danger by extending this for a 14 couple of months. 15 SENATOR ADAMS: Thank you. 16 On the bill, Mr. President. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Adams, on 18 the bill. 19 SENATOR ADAMS: I'm a bit 20 dismayed by even the comments, not only from 21 the sponsor but others on the floor. Are we 22 putting profit over public safety? I would 23 love to see our small businesses thrive and 24 grow and turn into the large stores. 25 But if the organizations and

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(518) 371-8910 1 agencies that we put in place to determine if 2 a particular item is dangerous for the 3 environment and our community gives us a date 4 when it should be removed, to hear the 5 reasoning for not removing the item is because 6 we don't want people to lose a profit, to me 7 that's troubling. That is not the role of 8 government, to put profit over public safety. 9 Yes, the paint was legal at one 10 time. But you know what? So was asbestos. 11 That was allowable and permissible to be in 12 buildings. But look what it has done to many 13 of the employees that breathe in that 14 substance. If it was dangerous when the DEC 15 gave a cutoff date, then it's going to be 16 dangerous two months later and it's going to 17 be dangerous when you put it into public 18 housing to put on walls and buildings where 19 people live. It's dangerous. It's dangerous. 20 If anything, we should be talking 21 about how to give tax incentives to those 22 small businesses that are going to lose from 23 having to turn over this product. But to 24 state that the reason for extending the delay 25 is because we don't want a ma-and-pa business

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(518) 371-8910 1 to lose profit, well, ma and pa is going to 2 lose their children to dangerous substances in 3 our society. That's wrong. 4 I can't even see the logic of 5 extending a delay that DEC made based on the 6 profitability of the businesses involved. And 7 how could we even accept that and use that as 8 an excuse? Then in that case, let's continue 9 to have asbestos. Let's continue it a little 10 longer. Let's continue to identify all the 11 substances that we identify, and let's tell 12 those children up in the rafters that the 13 profit is more important than their safety, 14 it's more important than what they breathe in 15 and consume. 16 There's no way I could vote for a 17 bill merely based on the bottom line of 18 manufacturers. I base the bill on the bottom 19 line of the most important commodity in my 20 community, and that's my children. That's who 21 I believe is first. And I'm sure the ma and 22 pas would understand that, because the reason 23 they're ma and pa is because they have 24 children. 25 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Duane.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, 2 Mr. President. 3 An awful lot of protesting going on 4 here. I don't know, you know, it seems to me 5 that if something is toxic when you open up 6 the can, that's a bad sign. You know what I'm 7 saying? I wouldn't want to open up one of 8 these cans, frankly. 9 And, you know, PCBs, creosote was 10 legally manufactured. How delicious was 11 creosote; right? Who would ever forget 12 breathing in a big whiff of creosote; right? 13 You know, if this paint is so good 14 for nonprofits, maybe my colleagues would like 15 to paint their offices with it. Maybe the 16 Capitol should be painted with it. And maybe 17 we should open up the cans for the nonprofits. 18 Right? 19 You know, I don't get it. If it's 20 bad, if it's toxic, then we shouldn't be 21 selling it. And if the big manufacturers, who 22 probably did know that it was bad, were 23 dumping it on the small retailers, well, maybe 24 they should be investigated. Maybe this is 25 something for the Attorney General to look

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(518) 371-8910 1 into, why this crummy toxic stuff, coating, 2 was being dumped on the small people. You can 3 bet that Wal-Mart is not going to suffer. 4 Right? If it's just the small ones, Wal-Mart 5 probably already dumped the stuff. We're 6 probably lucky they didn't dump it into the 7 Hudson. 8 So just in good conscience I cannot 9 vote for this. And you know what, I don't 10 want it to be donated to nonprofits. I want 11 this stuff just to be gotten rid of. And I 12 want the small business people to be made 13 whole, and I think they should be made whole 14 by the manufacturers. 15 So I'll be voting no on this, and 16 really with just -- I'm just appalled and, 17 frankly, outraged. Nonprofits? I don't 18 really -- I don't get that at all. 19 Thank you, Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 21 Morahan. 22 SENATOR MORAHAN: Thank you, 23 Mr. President. 24 I just rise to perhaps shed some 25 more light on this particular issue. The DEC

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(518) 371-8910 1 several years ago, with the advice of the 2 federal government, decided that this 3 particular product or this particular 4 ingredient in our paint products would be 5 better removed than to continue. 6 They set up a timetable, which 7 indicates to me that there was really no 8 terrible sense of urgency. They set a 9 timetable up so that the manufacturers of I 10 believe it's 4 million gallons of paint a year 11 would be the first that would start to remove 12 this from the paint. And they gave them a 13 year, the DEC gave the large manufacturers a 14 year to move the products that they had 15 already manufactured. 16 There's also smaller manufacturers, 17 and those manufacturers were given two years 18 to sell their product. So they could continue 19 to make the product for two years before they 20 would have to stop. 21 After much negotiation, the DEC, to 22 put the small manufacturer on the same playing 23 field, the same level with the large 24 manufacturers, pulled back that deadline so 25 that all manufacturers had to stop making the

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(518) 371-8910 1 product by a certain year, and I believe it 2 was December 31st of the year 2006. 3 Thereafter the DEC said fine. Now 4 we've stopped the manufacturing, and now the 5 product is out in the marketplace in the small 6 stores and big stores. The big stores, who 7 have chains around the country, offloaded what 8 they wanted to to their other stores outside 9 of New York. Not all states have banned this 10 product at this particular time, to my 11 knowledge. 12 And they gave a date, which was 13 yesterday, on the assumption by that time the 14 small stores would have moved the product off 15 the shelf. Fully knowing that after the sale, 16 people would open the paint. After the sale, 17 the product was still there. And they picked 18 a date. 19 And as Senator Seward pointed out, 20 no one was really conscious, in my mind, that 21 the paints really weren't being used to a 22 great degree in the deep months of the winter. 23 So now the DEC has agreed to extend 24 the date from yesterday to July 16th. This is 25 an issue that has been going on for several

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(518) 371-8910 1 years. And the DEC has been in this 2 negotiation all the way, with the large 3 manufacturers, then the small manufacturers, 4 and now the retailers. And there have been 5 changes in implementation dates as they have 6 gone along. 7 Now it was just felt that if they 8 could have this little extra time that the 9 small mom-and-pop hardware stores would be 10 able to sell the paint. What they do with it 11 thereafter is their business. No one's asking 12 for a recall or destruction of the paint. But 13 they've asked for July 16th. 14 So the bill was passed in the 15 Assembly. The bill is now being passed in 16 this house. The DEC knows the Governor will 17 sign this bill. And then the store owners 18 will have a little bit of time so they don't 19 get financially crippled. 20 But I think that -- this is only 21 given as an explanation on how we got to this 22 point, but I think in the explanation and the 23 time frame in which all of this has started 24 that brought us to today, indicates to me as a 25 layperson -- not a scientist, not a chemical

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(518) 371-8910 1 engineer -- that the DEC is not overly alarmed 2 about the toxicity of this product. 3 And I believe Senator Marcellino's 4 bill is a fair and equitable response to the 5 small retailers that has been agreed to by all 6 concerned, including the DEC. I'm going to 7 support the bill. 8 Thank you, Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank 10 you, Senator Morahan. 11 Senator Wright. 12 SENATOR WRIGHT: Thank you, 13 Mr. President. 14 I want to join my colleague Senator 15 Morahan in trying to provide a voice of reason 16 on this topic. 17 As he rightfully points out, this 18 is not occurring in other states. So what is 19 happening with the Wal-Marts and the large 20 retailers is they simply move it to their 21 Pennsylvania store, their New Jersey store, 22 any other store in their chain except those in 23 the state of New York. Because New York is 24 adopting this standard alone. 25 And why? Because New York is

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(518) 371-8910 1 attempting to comply with clean air standards 2 that are required by the federal government, 3 primarily in the larger metropolitan area, 4 which we recognize and are all trying to 5 comply with. 6 It is not an issue of critical 7 public health. Otherwise, the DEC 8 commissioner wouldn't be recommending it. 9 Otherwise, the Governor wouldn't be indicating 10 his concurrence with the extension. And the 11 health commissioner would certainly be 12 intervening to protect the children and the 13 people of the state of New York. 14 It is not about profits for small 15 businesses, it's simply about recovering a 16 loss that's being imposed upon them for the 17 State of New York. I think the approach is 18 reasonable, it's prudent. Frankly, would I 19 prefer to have it longer? Yes, I would. But 20 this is the compromise negotiated. It's an 21 appropriate response by Commissioner Grannis 22 to an issue that was raised during his 23 confirmation. 24 And I would suggest we all just 25 take a reasonable, balanced approach to it and

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(518) 371-8910 1 move forward. No one, but no one, is in 2 jeopardy with this legislation. 3 I vote aye. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 5 Connor. 6 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, 7 Mr. President. 8 And I want to thank my colleagues 9 for the explanations. I think Senator 10 Morahan's explanation made it quite clear to 11 me what's happened here. 12 And I certainly understand the 13 plight of the small retailers, the small 14 hardware stores. You don't sell a lot of 15 paint in the Adirondacks in January. You do 16 sell a lot at the end of May and June. I have 17 some painting to do myself. And I guess there 18 will be some good sales. 19 But it's clear that this product is 20 not a good one to have over time, but there's 21 no imminent danger. And if anyone is to be 22 faulted here, perhaps it's the last 23 administration's DEC, which I now realize, 24 from what Senator Morahan explained, may have 25 been overly accommodating to the manufacturers

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(518) 371-8910 1 in allowing them to continue to manufacture 2 for a period of two years and put that into 3 the retail stream so that here we are now. 4 And I don't think profits should 5 come ahead of health. We're not talking about 6 anybody's profits here. We're talking about 7 people who are going to bear a loss. And for 8 those small retailers, they exist on very 9 small economic margins. 10 The fact is all the profit-takers, 11 Mr. President, took their profit. The 12 manufacturers made their money, they got to 13 manufacture it for an additional two years and 14 dumped the product into the stream. The large 15 retailers are going to make their profits. 16 They'll make it now in Pennsylvania and 17 New Jersey and elsewhere, by shipping the 18 product there. And it's really only the 19 little guy who's going to get stuck. 20 And I really doubt, given this 21 deadline, that any of these small hardware 22 stores or paint stores, general stores, which 23 sell paint in a lot of areas, that they're 24 going to look to make a profit on this. 25 They're going to look to get it off their

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(518) 371-8910 1 shelves. They're going to look to get back 2 what they already spent and avoid a loss. 3 So it's this is not about profits, 4 it's about avoiding a loss for the smallest 5 players in the scene. And if anyone is to be 6 criticized, it's the DEC, who, knowing two or 7 three years this was a bad product, still 8 allowed its manufacture and introduction into 9 the retail stream in New York State. 10 So this bill is a reasonable 11 compromise, and I intend to support it. I see 12 no imminent danger in allowing this paint to 13 be sold until July 16th. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 15 Klein. 16 SENATOR KLEIN: On the bill, 17 Mr. President. 18 I certainly have a lot of 19 questions. I appreciate Senator Morahan's 20 response as to the process of how we came to 21 this place. But I would think -- I'm not 22 chair of the Environmental Protection 23 Committee, but I would think that this is not 24 a very common practice in New York State for 25 DEC to ban a certain type of coating. I

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(518) 371-8910 1 assume there was a report that was done, there 2 was reasons. 3 And what I would also like to know 4 is -- one of the questions is, why isn't it 5 that this is a product that's banned 6 nationally if there is a danger? I don't 7 think these questions are unreasonable. 8 And before we have the opportunity 9 to vote on a piece of legislation like this, I 10 think it's incumbent upon all of us to really 11 know all these reasons. You know, I've been 12 someone who spent a long time on consumer 13 issues, especially a lot of them with one of 14 my colleagues, Senator Fuschillo. And again, 15 this is something that I think goes to the 16 very health and safety of the residents of 17 New York State. 18 And I certainly understand the 19 plight of small business. But then again, I 20 have to ask the question, why isn't the 21 manufacturer making these small businesses 22 whole? There's a lot of questions here. 23 Another question I think has to be, 24 do now these small businesses have an 25 affirmative duty to warn the potential

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(518) 371-8910 1 purchaser that this was something that was 2 banned in New York State by DEC? 3 You know, I think it's absolutely 4 insane for us to be passing a piece of 5 legislation unless we have answers to all of 6 these questions. So I respectfully vote no, 7 Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 9 Bonacic. 10 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you, 11 Mr. President. 12 You know the debate today, to me 13 it's a tempest in a teapot. And the tone that 14 I'm hearing from the other side -- not all the 15 members -- is that small businesses are making 16 a profit at the expense of the health of our 17 citizen citizens. I bet the air in New York 18 City every day that you breathe is more 19 dangerous than this paint. 20 I know of no one in the last twenty 21 years that used this paint that has suffered, 22 as people do with respiratory illness from the 23 air in New York City. 24 But I'm not here to give a sermon. 25 I just want to talk about balance and common

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(518) 371-8910 1 sense. I want to remind my colleagues that 2 small businesses create 90 percent of the jobs 3 in the state of New York. Every one of us in 4 this room, as government officials, do not 5 create one cent of wealth. I could not pay 6 your salary or you pay my salary. Private 7 sector pays our salary from their activities. 8 That's what enables us to do the good things 9 that we do in education, in healthcare, in 10 transportation, in everything else. 11 And you know what? The small 12 businesses have said: We're in a jam. Some 13 of us are going to take a beating, as Senator 14 Connor said. Not a profit, but a beating. 15 Mainly upstate. Most of these stores for the 16 most part are little independent hardware 17 stores. And they're saying give us an 18 accommodation, give us 60 days to get rid of 19 the product. That's what they're asking. 20 It's a matter of balance. And I happen to 21 think it's reasonable. 22 If the DEC put July as the final 23 date to get the stuff off, would we be having 24 this debate? Would anybody be dying in the 60 25 days? So come on, let's be practical. It's

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(518) 371-8910 1 simply an accommodation for small businesses, 2 who create the wealth for us and create the 3 economic vitality for this state to function. 4 That's what this is about. A tempest in a 5 teapot. 6 I vote yes. Thank you, 7 Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 9 Perkins. 10 SENATOR PERKINS: Thank you, 11 Mr. President. 12 First of all, I want to thank my 13 colleague Senator Duane for raising this 14 issue. 15 It's a remarkable discussion that's 16 been going on. It's clear from the discussion 17 that this paint had no business on the market 18 to begin with. And it seems to me that this 19 is not about business as much as it's about 20 environmental and health issues. 21 Ten thousand children are poisoned 22 by lead paint every year in this state. 23 Crippled for life. How many children are 24 going to be poisoned by this paint that has 25 been outlawed because it's unhealthy and it's

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(518) 371-8910 1 dangerous? 2 Now, I hear that our new 3 commissioner and our new Governor have 4 endorsed this bill and the extension for the 5 use of this paint. I'm disturbed and alarmed 6 to hear that. I hope you're wrong. I do not 7 believe that this Governor or this new 8 commissioner should be supporting the 9 extension of something that has clearly been 10 outlawed as being dangerous in terms of 11 people's health and safety. 12 So I don't see this as an attack on 13 small business. In fact, quite the opposite. 14 I see this as an attack on the most vulnerable 15 of our citizens; in fact, the future of our 16 state, the children. And I would like to know 17 how many of our children are being crippled or 18 suffering from the use of this paint and how 19 long are we going to continue to allow this 20 type of product to be extended or used in our 21 state. 22 I think that the Senator from 23 Brooklyn, Senator Adams, makes a good point, 24 that we don't have the right to be balancing 25 people's profits at the expense of the health

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(518) 371-8910 1 of our children. 2 And I think that while these small 3 owners may not be the culprits in this 4 picture, nevertheless something has to be done 5 to protect those who are most vulnerable and 6 most likely to be hurt by this product. 7 So I can't -- as much as I support 8 small businesses, I can't see supporting the 9 extension. And in fact, I think it's 10 outrageous that this product was ever on the 11 market to begin with. And so I will be voting 12 no. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 14 Adams, do you wish to be heard again? 15 SENATOR ADAMS: Yes. 16 You know, there's probably a level 17 of urgency in my tone because I heard those 18 famous terms so often: No danger, don't 19 worry, everything is okay. I think about the 20 number of police officers I supervised down at 21 9/11. I heard Christine Whitman say: Oh, no 22 danger, just breathe the air, don't worry 23 about a face mask. Now they have cancer. Now 24 no one wants to give them the money they need 25 for health insurance.

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(518) 371-8910 1 I heard no danger when my cousin 2 went over to Vietnam and Agent Orange was 3 poisoning the air. No danger, everything is 4 all right. 5 No danger when lead paint was 6 painted in our community and our kids were 7 dying. No danger, just move nice and calm. 8 No danger if you smoke a pack a 9 day. It's all right, it's just a little 10 smoke. Everything is -- just move quickly and 11 nicely. No danger. 12 The heck with no danger. The 13 erosion of our society is not an instant 14 process. It's the slow dismantling of our 15 environment. When the heck are we going to 16 catch on? Our society is eroding. All over 17 the globe people are talking about what is 18 happening in our society. One year I'm in 19 Alaska looking at the icebergs; next year I go 20 there, the darn place is melting. And we sit 21 here saying no danger. So what? Take our 22 time. 23 I can't buy that. If anything, we 24 should be aggressive to go after those 25 manufacturers and demand that they reimburse

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(518) 371-8910 1 these small businesses. There may be possible 2 legal ramifications for what took place, that 3 they intentionally sold paint that they knew 4 was banned in New York City. 5 This is what we should be talking 6 about. If that paint did not sell in two 7 years, it's not going to sell in two months. 8 Who are we kidding? And I'm hearing -- I 9 can't believe what I'm hearing. 10 Nonprofits take care of the least 11 among us. So we're saying give it to the 12 nonprofits. Public housing are not those CEOs 13 on Wall Street. Those are the least among us. 14 Put it in public housing. Do we hear what 15 we're saying? 16 And how dare Senator Perkins and 17 Senator Adams stand up and think about Agent 18 Orange, cigarette smoke, 9/11. We've heard 19 this before: Don't worry, be happy. It's no 20 major thing. We can't have these small 21 businesses lose their profits. Let's make 22 sure we sponsor them. 23 It's wrong. It's wrong. And I 24 think if anything, if we should do anything 25 today, we should ensure that an investigation

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(518) 371-8910 1 takes place so we will set the tone for future 2 behaviors. When you know a product is banned 3 in New York City, to continue to sell it -- we 4 should make sure that doesn't take place. And 5 if it's sold in Pennsylvania, if it's sold in 6 Maryland, if it's sold in California, you know 7 what? I'm not elected to the state senate of 8 those areas. I'm elected to the state senate 9 of New York. The agencies in New York make a 10 determination that the product is illegal, it 11 is not healthy, that's the body I'm going to 12 listen to. 13 Because I'm not a scientist, I'm 14 not a doctor. I don't know what are the 15 ramifications. I'm a Senator from a small 16 place in central Brooklyn. The experts we 17 hired to make this determination said it's 18 wrong. And no matter what you tell me, it's 19 not going to change in two months, it's not 20 going to change if it's on the walls of 40 21 projects, it's not going to change if it's on 22 the wall of some nonprofit in Troy, New York. 23 It's dangerous. It's dangerous. 24 And the danger is not going to change no 25 matter how much someone lose money. It's

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(518) 371-8910 1 wrong. And what we're doing today is wrong. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 3 Bonacic, why do you rise? 4 SENATOR BONACIC: Senator Adams, 5 would you yield to a question? 6 SENATOR ADAMS: Yes, I will. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: He 8 yields, Senator Bonacic. 9 SENATOR BONACIC: Is there any 10 memo in opposition from any health 11 organization or health official as to the 12 dangers that you are speaking about with 13 respect to the substance of this bill? That 14 you know of. 15 SENATOR ADAMS: When I stood up, 16 Senator, and I questioned what was taking 17 place, it was because I didn't have knowledge. 18 So I based my knowledge on the person who 19 sponsored the bill and on the agency that 20 stated it was dangerous. 21 Now, if that agency is saying it's 22 no longer dangerous, then I'll vote for this 23 bill. But until that agency tells me it is no 24 longer dangerous, then there's no reason for 25 me to vote for the bill.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR BONACIC: Will you 2 continue to yield to another question? 3 SENATOR ADAMS: Yes, I will. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: He 5 yields. 6 SENATOR BONACIC: Has there been 7 any environmental watchdog or agency -- I'm 8 not talking about DEC now -- that has weighed 9 in in opposition to this bill that would 10 extend the 60 days, creating a danger to the 11 environment? 12 SENATOR ADAMS: There was a 13 terminology that I coined several months ago, 14 "trickology." Who knew this was coming 15 through? Who knew this was coming through? 16 It's important for me to call these 17 environmentalist groups that I respect and say 18 what shall we do here. How about letting us 19 know what's coming through, not walking 20 through these chambers and say, hey, guess 21 what, we're going to drop this on your desk. 22 So are you aware, did you tell us 23 this was coming through, to give me the right, 24 as an elected official, to call my 25 environmentalists and tell them what's going

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(518) 371-8910 1 on? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: I would 3 ask the members to please address their 4 interaction to the chair. 5 Senator Bonacic. 6 SENATOR BONACIC: Mr. President, 7 I just would like to answer Senator Adams' 8 question. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: You 10 may, Senator Bonacic. 11 SENATOR BONACIC: Yes. From my 12 experience in Albany, environmental groups, 13 healthcare groups, they are much more ahead in 14 watching everything that happens with bills as 15 they come before this body. 16 So I would suggest to you that they 17 know the bill before we know about it. And I 18 have not seen any memos in opposition from any 19 healthcare organization or any environmental 20 organization with respect to the substance of 21 this bill. Have you? 22 SENATOR ADAMS: Mr. President, 23 may I respond to his question? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: You may 25 respond. You have the floor.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR ADAMS: First of all, 2 Senator, if I had the staff allocation that 3 you do, my staff would have better ability to 4 find out many more things that you're able to 5 find out. But as you know, I'm not funded as 6 good as you are to have that staff. 7 Nonetheless, it is important that 8 we are aware prior to a bill being introduced, 9 particularly of this magnitude and impact on 10 the environment that we live in and breathe, 11 that we are aware of it so we can call those 12 agencies. 13 I don't know if the agencies are 14 aware that this information -- or these 15 organizations are aware that this bill is here 16 today. This was a bill that we walked in. I 17 found out the first time this bill was going 18 to be introduced when I walked inside this 19 chamber. That's wrong. 20 And if I had that information 21 beforehand, then I could respond to your 22 question in a more effective manner. But I 23 didn't have that information. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 25 Bonacic.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR BONACIC: Just one other 2 point, Senator Adams, if I may. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Will 4 the Senator continue to yield? 5 SENATOR ADAMS: Yes, I will. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 7 Bonacic. 8 SENATOR BONACIC: I agree with 9 you that you should have the same allocation 10 as every other Senator here. That's point 11 number one. 12 But point number two, whether you 13 had allocations or not, the watchdog groups 14 give these memos in opposition not connected 15 to resources to our Senate office. You 16 realize that; right? 17 In other words, they do this on 18 their own, with their own resources. We don't 19 trigger these reports from healthcare 20 officials or environmental groups when it 21 comes to memos in opposition to bills that are 22 before us. You realize that, do you not? 23 SENATOR ADAMS: Is that a 24 rhetorical question, or do you want me to 25 reply?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR BONACIC: Well, let's 2 just leave it at a rhetorical question. I 3 thank you for your courtesy, Senator. 4 Thank you, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 6 Adams, on the bill. 7 SENATOR ADAMS: May I respond to 8 the Senator? 9 Watchdog groups and the 10 environmental organizations have a role to 11 assist us in shaping the policies and the 12 decisions we make on the Senate floor. 13 Governmental agencies have the responsibility 14 to represent our concerns. 15 The governmental agency that stated 16 the paint was dangerous made that 17 determination. And that is when I first stood 18 up to ask the sponsor of the bill, how do we 19 arrive here? The sponsor of the bill shared 20 with me not a watchdog group, not a special 21 interest group, but a governmental agency made 22 the determination that the paint was 23 dangerous. 24 And what I attempted to share with 25 my colleagues, there's historical data that

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(518) 371-8910 1 shows -- from Christine Whitman telling the 2 police officers, the firefighters everything 3 is fine while they're breathing in toxic air, 4 to cigarette manufacturers stating it's all 5 right to smoke a pack a day -- we have 6 historical data that shows individuals decide 7 that profit is more important than the safety 8 of the public. And we are the body that's in 9 charge of saying no. 10 And for us to believe that the mere 11 fact that the paint is not sold out of a ma 12 and pa or a big box store, that the danger 13 level is going to change, that's wrong. And I 14 disagree with that. 15 And that is why, after speaking to 16 the sponsor, hearing the debates, that I made 17 the determination that my community that I 18 represent comes first. And that's why I will 19 be voting no. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank 21 you, Senator Adams. 22 Senator Saland. 23 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 24 Mr. President. 25 Mr. President, would Senator Adams

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(518) 371-8910 1 yield to a question? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 3 Adams, will you yield for a question? 4 SENATOR ADAMS: Yes, I will. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 6 Saland. 7 SENATOR SALAND: Senator Adams, I 8 believe you said that government agencies have 9 a responsibility, and I believe that means to 10 afford protection to one or another group or 11 to a community. Is that correct? 12 SENATOR ADAMS: No, I don't know 13 how you interpret my statement to say that. 14 That's not what I stated. 15 SENATOR SALAND: Well, your words 16 were, and I lost you, "government agencies 17 have a responsibility." And then you went on 18 to say "and a government agency made the 19 determination that this paint was dangerous." 20 SENATOR ADAMS: That's exactly 21 what I stated. 22 SENATOR SALAND: Which government 23 organization was that? 24 SENATOR ADAMS: DEC. The agency 25 that --

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SALAND: And then if I 2 heard you correctly, you talked about the 3 terrible things that happened in the aftermath 4 of 9/11. You made reference to Christie 5 Whitman and firefighters breathing in toxic 6 air, did you not? 7 SENATOR ADAMS: Yes, I did. 8 SENATOR SALAND: And that has 9 sensitized all of us, has it not? If we 10 weren't concerned before, we certainly should 11 be concerned now, would that not be -- 12 SENATOR ADAMS: No, I disagree. 13 I felt that you're not sensitized, because 14 you're doing the same thing that Christine 15 Whitman did. So -- 16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 17 Connor, why do you rise? 18 SENATOR CONNOR: I rise for a 19 point of order. 20 I'm getting a little confused here 21 because of repeated questions without anyone 22 yielding. It wasn't clear to me in the last 23 dialogue who had the floor. It couldn't have 24 been Senator Adams, because he would have 25 spoken three times.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 2 Connor, Senator Adams has yielded to Senator 3 Saland for questions. 4 So what is your point of order, 5 sir? 6 SENATOR CONNOR: They're asking 7 repeated questions. They have to ask them 8 through the chair, Mr. President. And they're 9 not doing that. And that is -- 10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: I 11 remind the members -- 12 SENATOR SALAND: If I've been 13 inappropriate, Senator Connor, I certainly 14 apologize and will direct my questions through 15 the chair. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 17 Saland, do you -- 18 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 19 Mr. President. 20 Do we agree, Senator Adams, that 21 there is an agency, and you referred to that 22 agency as DEC, that is responsible for 23 ensuring in this particular case that we're 24 safe? 25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Adams. 2 SENATOR ADAMS: I'm sorry, can 3 you repeat that question? I didn't actually 4 understand it. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Will 6 you kindly repeat the question, Senator 7 Saland? 8 SENATOR SALAND: Do we both agree 9 that the agency, the relevant agency that is 10 responsible for ensuring that we are safe from 11 the kinds of toxic threats that you're 12 concerned about is DEC? 13 SENATOR ADAMS: Yes. Yes, 14 Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 16 Saland. 17 SENATOR SALAND: And are we 18 also -- through you, Mr. President, are we 19 also -- again, however aware we are today -- 20 even more keenly aware because of the very 21 events that you mentioned, the aftermath of 22 9/11, the toxic fumes or air that were 23 breathed by firefighters, by police, by rescue 24 workers? Does that not heighten our 25 awareness?

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 2 Adams. 3 SENATOR ADAMS: Through you, 4 Mr. President, no, I don't. I believe we're 5 repeating the same mistakes that were made 6 through some of the other issues that I 7 indicated. And I believe instead of our 8 awareness being heightened, I think we're 9 following the same steps of those who made 10 mistakes in the past. 11 SENATOR SALAND: Well -- 12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Do you 13 continue to yield, Senator Adams? 14 SENATOR ADAMS: Yes, I do. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 16 Saland. 17 SENATOR SALAND: Through you, 18 Mr. President, let me abbreviate this without 19 trying to make this go on much more, because 20 I'm sure it's painful for many people. 21 The question I would ask you, then, 22 can we not repose confidence in DEC, the very 23 agency that you say is the watchdog, that if 24 this is as toxic of a menace as you seem to 25 feel that it is, and it's such an immediate

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(518) 371-8910 1 threat to the health and well-being of all of 2 us, that DEC will not go along with this 3 proposal and will in fact say, to the 4 Governor, Governor, reject it? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 6 Adams. 7 SENATOR ADAMS: May I respond? 8 Well, it is not my position, the 9 level of toxicity of the item or the paint. 10 That's not my position. 11 When I first stood up, I questioned 12 the sponsor of the bill to help me understand 13 what exactly DEC stated. So maybe we need to 14 hear from DEC why they're extending this 15 period. Is the level of danger going to 16 decrease? I need information so I can 17 properly vote on a bill that's going to impact 18 on our environment. 19 You're stating what DEC's position 20 is. You're stating what the Governor's 21 position is and the commissioner's position 22 is. That's coming from the sponsor of the 23 bill. I didn't hear that from the Governor, I 24 didn't hear that from the commissioner. 25 There's no memo that came out from DEC that

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(518) 371-8910 1 states the danger is going to change. I 2 didn't receive any of that. 3 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, 4 just on a point of order, I never alluded to 5 DEC saying anything. 6 I'm merely saying that Senator 7 Adams professes to look to DEC, rightfully so, 8 as the watchdog. And I'm saying that if DEC 9 is the watchdog, will it not draw a line in 10 the sand and say no, this should not happen? 11 And I would think, if that in fact 12 is the case, then you have your security 13 blanket and we all can walk away feeling that 14 we've done the right thing. But, you know, 15 that certainly is for you to determine. 16 You've made your determination, and I 17 obviously am not about to change your mind. 18 But I merely thought that it was 19 important to in effect remind everybody that 20 this is not in a vacuum. This is a continuum 21 of events, and they harken back not merely to 22 cigarette smoking, they harken back not merely 23 to the events of 9/11, but a whole range of 24 events that have occurred that have certainly 25 sensitized the general public, this

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(518) 371-8910 1 Legislature, and a host of others to the 2 importance of being sound with respect to 3 whatever it is that we're breathing in the 4 air. 5 And I take comfort knowing that 6 DEC, if in fact they feel that this somehow or 7 other is an imminent threat to the health and 8 well-being of the people of the State of 9 New York, regardless of whatever age they may 10 be, DEC will say no, this cannot be. And if 11 DEC says, okay, two months is fine, then it 12 can't be as imminent of a threat as some have 13 portrayed it as being. 14 Thank you, Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Thank 16 you, Senator Saland. 17 Senator Adams. 18 SENATOR ADAMS: Mr. President -- 19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 20 Adams, we have a recognized group. 21 Senator Connor, why do you rise? 22 Okay. Any other Senator wishing to 23 speak at this point in time? 24 Senator Marcellino, to close. 25 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you.

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(518) 371-8910 1 With respect to notification, this 2 bill was put out on the Thursday before the 3 meeting of the Environmental Committee, which 4 met on this past Tuesday, which is our normal 5 procedure. It was advertised. Copies of the 6 bill were sent out to all members of the 7 committee. The bill passed without a negative 8 vote in the committee. Members of the 9 committee had a chance to read it, raise any 10 questions or objections that they would have 11 had. None came. 12 What I have heard today is quite 13 amazing. I really am. I didn't think 14 anything could shock Tom Duane, but I guess he 15 gets shocked today. 16 The DEC, the watchdog, the health 17 commissioner, the watchdogs, say this 60 days 18 isn't going to hurt anybody. They've said 19 that, Senator. Not Carl Marcellino, not John 20 Bonacic, not Jim Wright, not anybody else in 21 this room. 22 The bill would never have come out, 23 would never have moved forward if we didn't 24 have the approval of the commissioner and of 25 the Governor and of the Assembly. Hardly

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(518) 371-8910 1 bastions of anti-environmentalism. I don't 2 think you can accuse any of those agencies as 3 being, you know, agencies that would come out 4 and do anything that they would consider to be 5 a threat to public health or a threat to the 6 State of New York or a threat to anybody. 7 It's an accommodation that has been 8 made to help some people out. That's all it 9 is. It's a very simple little bill. It 10 should not have garnered this kind of, quite 11 frankly, in some cases disingenuous 12 extrapolation of language that I've heard 13 here. We've gotten off on to Agent Orange, 14 equating these paint cans -- the walls in your 15 offices are painted with this stuff. The 16 walls of your houses are probably painted with 17 this stuff. The walls of your apartments are 18 painted with this stuff, and have been for 19 years. And will be for years again. Every 20 other state around us is selling this paint 21 now and will continue to sell it. 22 Some arbitrary decision was made, a 23 date was picked. People came and said give us 24 60 more days. Everybody agreed. All the 25 watchdogs agreed to do this. Otherwise, we

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(518) 371-8910 1 wouldn't have done the bill. Simple as that. 2 Ladies and gentlemen, based on 3 that, I just don't see the need for all of 4 this. I really don't. We should vote aye on 5 this bill, move it on, get it done and move on 6 to issues of real import. I intend to vote 7 aye and urge everyone else to do the same. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 9 debate is closed. 10 The Secretary will ring the bell. 11 Read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 18 Stewart-Cousins, to explain her vote. 19 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: This 20 has been one of these I think debates that go 21 beyond the rhetoric and goes to policy. And 22 what I hear, as I listened to my colleagues 23 discussing this, is policy. 24 The reality is yes, the DEC is the 25 watchdog. And it takes a very long time for

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(518) 371-8910 1 these watchdogs to make a decision to say that 2 something is very dangerous. So the fact that 3 DEC has said this is dangerous says something 4 to me. 5 Now, are we going to respect the 6 decision of a DEC, or are we going to allow 7 DEC or other watchdogs to decide, well, maybe 8 not this week, maybe a month from now, maybe 9 two months from now? 10 I oppose changing the date on 11 something that has been certified by the DEC 12 as dangerous. I think it's an important 13 policy discussion that we decide that when 14 something comes to our attention as dangerous, 15 it should be understood to be that. And we 16 should respect that and not second-guess and 17 third-guess and mediate. 18 I think, as a policy, our 19 Legislature has to decide whether we believe 20 DEC or any other watchdog. And at this point 21 I agree with the first decision that the 22 watchdog made. I will be voting no because I 23 think our policy is that we must respect the 24 health and safety of our community. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Stewart-Cousins in the negative. 2 Senator Schneiderman, to explain 3 his vote. 4 I would remind the members of the 5 two-minute rule, too, in explanations. 6 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 7 Mr. President. Explaining my vote. 8 I'm going to vote no on this also. 9 And I think that this debate actually reflects 10 something that we should be more concerned 11 about here. There are two issues that have 12 been addressed. The first is process, and the 13 second question, quite honestly, is prejudice. 14 Now, process, as Senator Duane I 15 think clearly laid out, the process by which 16 this bill has come forward and the lack of 17 input and the lack of information available to 18 us -- even apparently available to the bill's 19 sponsor -- I think is the kind of thing that 20 makes people cynical about us and that gets 21 this Legislature rated over and over again as 22 the most dysfunctional in the country. Let's 23 slow down and do our job carefully. 24 But the second, and I say this 25 absolutely sincerely to my colleagues on the

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(518) 371-8910 1 other side of the aisle, I think sometimes we 2 have a tendency to underestimate prejudice in 3 the distribution of toxic substances in our 4 state. 5 And I think the concern of some of 6 my colleagues is that, as Senator Adams said, 7 not-for-profits who care for the least among 8 us, our children, shouldn't be once again 9 given a toxic substance to use. 10 The problems of lead paint, the 11 problems of other pollutants, the problems of 12 asthma in inner-city communities caused by the 13 location of bus depots and everything, there 14 is a problem of prejudice in our environmental 15 policies. 16 And I think that it is a tribute to 17 the people who have spoken here today that we 18 are keeping our eyes on the ball, we our doing 19 our jobs as legislators. 20 Just the fact that there is one 21 watchdog on duty does not mean that this house 22 does not have an obligation to serve as that 23 additional watchdog for which we were elected 24 and which I'm proud to count as one of my 25 functions.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Even with the great DEC 2 commissioner -- although I think Senator 3 Maziarz believes he's too much under the 4 influence of corporate power, but in fact some 5 of us think he's a pretty good guy -- we're 6 trying to help him do his job better and make 7 sure that the environmentalism is not just in 8 our rural areas in this state but it extends 9 to the inner-city neighborhoods where far too 10 often toxic substances have been allowed to 11 reside years after they're banned in other 12 areas. 13 I'm voting no, Mr. President, and 14 I'm proud of the debate we've had here today. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 16 Schneiderman in the negative. 17 Senator Duane, to explain his vote. 18 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, 19 Mr. President. 20 You know, I actually think DEC 21 probably did the best job they could in trying 22 to negotiate their way out of this. You know, 23 and I have to say that I was very proud to 24 vote to confirm this commissioner, and I think 25 he's an excellent -- he was an excellent

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(518) 371-8910 1 legislator. And I think he's so far been an 2 excellent commissioner. 3 But you know what? The buck stops 4 here. This is where the final decision gets 5 made. So we are responsible. 6 You know, to make this debate 7 between health and small business is wrong. 8 We should do something to help small 9 businesses. Tax credits. There are other 10 ways out of this horrendous mess. 11 You know, again, asbestos, lead, 12 creosote. I mean, we know now these things 13 are bad. Opening up these cans apparently is 14 extremely dangerous. I really encourage my 15 colleagues to vote no on this to send a strong 16 signal that we actually want to protect kids, 17 workers who open up these cans. It's not a 18 matter of only what are we going to do about 19 small businesses, it's protecting the health 20 and safety of all of our citizens. 21 I vote no, Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 23 Duane in the negative. 24 Senator Stachowski, to explain his 25 vote.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes, 2 Mr. President, I'd just like to rise in 3 support of this bill. 4 I believe that this -- this topic 5 actually came up during then Assemblyman 6 Grannis's confirmation hearing. And quite to 7 the contrary of some of the debate here, it 8 was brought up by people that represent more 9 rural areas, because of little paint stores, 10 et cetera. 11 And they asked if he would look 12 into this. And even though many of them voted 13 no, saying that they don't believe he cares 14 about those particular areas, the fact is that 15 he has looked into this. 16 DEC I don't believe would allow an 17 extender for another minute if this paint was 18 as dangerous as some people are portraying it 19 to be, or if it was that dangerous to open the 20 can. I just think they don't want this 21 product used any more in the future. 22 I think this product will be off 23 the market. I don't think they would allow 24 them to have a compromise to donate paint to 25 not-for-profits if there was a danger, because

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(518) 371-8910 1 the exposure is on them. And the fact is if 2 they are, in fact, in any way opposed to this, 3 they will suggest to the Governor that he 4 vetoes the bill. 5 But my information is to the 6 contrary, that this is a compromise that has 7 been worked out with the new commissioner and 8 the experts at DEC, that the danger is not 9 there. That if there was a danger, 10 not-for-profits wouldn't be getting this 11 paint. And I just don't see that the DEC 12 would be the author of something that would be 13 a danger to the people that are serviced by 14 not-for-profits. 15 So because of those reasons, and 16 because of the fact that it's Pete Grannis's 17 first time to bat, he's risen up and found a 18 solution to a problem that was brought to his 19 attention that he did say he would look for, I 20 vote aye. 21 Thank you, Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 23 Stachowski in the affirmative. 24 Senator Liz Krueger, to explain her 25 vote.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 2 Well, I listened to the debate. 3 And I don't think that this is really that 4 much about who said the DEC commissioner one 5 day or another. 6 I've been reading the history of 7 the legislation, which actually goes back to 8 the '70s. And so I'm not sure if anyone here 9 was here then back in 1972 when apparently we 10 first started debating whether we should pull 11 this stuff off the market. And then it came 12 and went in '73, in '88, in 2003, in 2006 as 13 an emergency measure. There's been a lot of 14 discussion about this. 15 So on the one hand, I'll accept the 16 argument two months more probably, in the 17 realm of the history of this product, may not 18 make a big difference and may help some small 19 businesses. 20 And yet I find myself ultimately 21 voting no because this went through years and 22 years apparently in this house and the other, 23 and I assume with various Governors, of when 24 we were finally closing the door on this. And 25 we picked a date. And maybe it was an

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(518) 371-8910 1 arbitrary date, but we picked the date. 2 And I'm a little concerned about 3 the discussion around small businesses in the 4 absence of really asking the hard questions, 5 which also is too late for this Legislature, I 6 feel, to deal with. It was manufacturers that 7 this bill applies to. It says you can no 8 longer manufacture products. Well, the 9 manufacturers knew that for a long time. And 10 yet if we have all these small businesses who 11 suddenly have large inventories of this 12 product, I suspect that manufacturers were 13 quote, unquote, dumping their inventory at 14 discounted prices to solve their economic 15 problem, basically by transferring that cost 16 and that responsibility and conceivably that 17 liability to small businesses. 18 So I think everybody has a little 19 guilt to share here. And that DEC may have 20 said, fine, two more months and we're done 21 with this. And that's fine. And I respect 22 the concern about small businesses suddenly 23 being caught in this. I respect very much the 24 concern of my colleagues who say we don't look 25 carefully about what we're doing in our

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(518) 371-8910 1 communities to our children and our people. 2 And we can all name long histories of our 3 doing too little, too late on protecting our 4 environment. I suppose you could even argue 5 that's a theme of our country right now in 6 this world, too little, too late on our 7 environment. So -- 8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 9 Krueger, how do you vote? 10 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I will vote 11 no. And -- 12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 13 Krueger, we would like to respect the rules of 14 the house today for explanations. You're 15 beyond the two minutes. 16 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Certainly. 17 Thank you, Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 19 Liz Krueger in the negative. 20 Senator Hassell-Thompson, to 21 explain her vote. 22 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: 23 Senator Krueger has articulated very clearly 24 the major concern that I have. I just will 25 say that I will be voting no as well.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Thank you, Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 3 Hassell-Thompson in the negative. 4 Senator Adams. 5 SENATOR PARKER: No, Senator 6 Parker. We look alike. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 8 Parker. Excuse me, Senator Adams. 9 Senator Parker, to explain his 10 vote. 11 SENATOR PARKER: Mr. President, I 12 rise to vote no. I know everybody is saying 13 well, this is not as dangerous as they 14 suspect. Well, if it wasn't that dangerous, 15 why are we taking it off the market? 16 When we stopped smoking indoors in 17 this state, we were all very proud of that. I 18 think we all continue to be very proud of it. 19 We didn't say, oh, well, there are some people 20 who haven't quit smoking yet so let's continue 21 to, you know, allow people to smoke. We 22 didn't say that there are some people who, you 23 know, still haven't kicked the habit, we have 24 small businesses who are still selling 25 cigarettes and we don't want to hurt their

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(518) 371-8910 1 profits, so let's continue to let people smoke 2 indoors and endanger all of us. 3 So to rise now and to say that this 4 can't be more of a danger in two more months, 5 and it will be two more months -- and I don't 6 believe in the slippery slope that we're 7 creating here: two months here and then in 8 two more months we'll be back asking for two 9 more months and two more months after that. 10 And if people don't think that the 11 government does bad things, I want people to 12 go back and look at the U.S. experiment on 13 African-Americans at a college called 14 Tuskegee. And the government then knowingly 15 let a group of men suffer with syphilis for 16 over five years. 17 So, you know, when folks are 18 talking about well, you know, we wouldn't do 19 this and agencies would never endanger the 20 lives of human beings -- and certainly when I 21 hear my colleagues talking about, you know, 22 we're going to take paint that we have banned, 23 we know is dangerous, and we're going to put 24 it into affordable housing, who lives in 25 affordable housing? Sounds like the Tuskegee

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(518) 371-8910 1 experiment to me. 2 So I'm voting no, and I urge my 3 colleagues to vote no as well. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 5 Parker in the negative. 6 Senator Perkins. 7 SENATOR PERKINS: Thank you very 8 much. 9 I just want to again raise my 10 concerns about something that had no business 11 being on the market -- poisoning or somehow or 12 other being a problem from a health point of 13 view -- being taken off the market, and now we 14 are fighting to keep it on the market for 15 however long the commissioner says we should. 16 I think this is a dangerous 17 precedent for us to be doing this. Some 18 people argue that we're the only state in the 19 country that seems to have a problem with 20 this. That's not the measure to determine 21 whether or not something is healthy or 22 unhealthy. 23 I know for years and years we 24 talked about lead paint poisoning, and 25 businesspeople argued vigorously in every way

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(518) 371-8910 1 that they could to keep lead paint on the 2 market, despite the fact that the health 3 experts, the environmentalists and everyone 4 else was telling us that these children were 5 being poisoned, crippled for life, unable to 6 get an education. 7 So I think we have to be very 8 careful with that kind of history when we 9 start delaying taking off the market something 10 that has been determined to be unhealthy. And 11 we have to watch out that when we use 12 business, especially small-business arguments 13 for the purpose of delaying something in that 14 respect. 15 And I think it's also, as was 16 pointed out more than once, weird that we 17 would be asking that this stuff be given to 18 not-for-profits. If it's not good, it's not 19 good. Period. And I think that this may be 20 another reason for us to have hearings, to 21 have -- this is a subject that we could have 22 called upon all the experts, the 23 environmentalists, including the commissioner 24 and others, so that there could be a clear 25 understanding about how dangerous this really

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(518) 371-8910 1 is. 2 And so clearly I'm opposed to this 3 and very concerned that our commissioner, who 4 I supported, who I continue to support, made 5 such a decision allegedly with the endorsement 6 also of the Governor, which I'm concerned that 7 he would be a party to this. I don't care 8 who's the Governor or who's the commissioner. 9 To support something that has been determined 10 to be unhealthy to me is wrong. So I'm 11 opposing this legislation. 12 Thank you so much. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 14 Perkins in the negative. 15 Senator Klein, to explain his vote. 16 SENATOR KLEIN: Thank you, 17 Mr. President. 18 I had the honor of serving for 19 10 years in the Assembly with now Commissioner 20 Pete Grannis. And you want to know something? 21 Pete Grannis would have been the first person 22 to get up today and question this information 23 and find out why we're voting on this 24 legislation today. 25 I don't think this is a litmus test

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(518) 371-8910 1 on whether or not we're helping small 2 business. Because by not having the 3 information that we need, we may be hurting 4 business. As I mentioned I think earlier, are 5 we requiring that these businesses notify 6 whoever they're giving this product to, a 7 not-for-profit, that this potentially may be 8 dangerous? There's a whole host of questions 9 that we don't have answered. 10 And I thank all of my colleagues -- 11 Senator Adams, in raising his concerns about 12 the effects of people down at Ground Zero at 13 9/11; Senator Perkins, who is truly one of the 14 experts on the dangers of lead paint 15 poisoning. I think it's incumbent on us to 16 question these things. And I don't think 17 anyone here doesn't want to help small 18 business. But I think we do have a right to 19 know this information. 20 I think this goes to the process of 21 this chamber. In all this debate we've had 22 here today, no one has yet to produce a letter 23 explaining what are the dangers here, either 24 through the DEC commissioner or anyone else. 25 I vote no, Mr. President.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 2 Klein in the negative. 3 The clerk will announce the 4 results. 5 Senator Volker. 6 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 7 to explain my vote. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 9 Volker, to explain his vote. 10 SENATOR VOLKER: I hesitate to do 11 this. I realize that this is really more of a 12 political debate. 13 Senator Perkins, can I just tell 14 you something about lead paint? Lead paint's 15 been banned since 1984. I don't remember the 16 business community ever objecting. The reason 17 we couldn't do statewide legislation basically 18 is because some trial lawyers in New York City 19 refused to allow a decline -- what they wanted 20 was class actions so you could sue every 21 housing group in New York City. 22 We did do some lead paint upgrades, 23 dramatically. I did it. Arthur O. Eve and I 24 worked very hard on lead paint. I can tell 25 you there were outside interests that kept us

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(518) 371-8910 1 from doing it. It wasn't business, because 2 they had realized long before that it was a 3 problem. 4 The problem here is this isn't 5 really the DEC that caused this to happen, it 6 was the EPA. The EPA, in their scattershot 7 information, said we have to come up with some 8 sort of a plan. One of the things is they 9 said, Well, there's a couple of substances in 10 this paint that could be dangerous. Could be. 11 They have no idea. And by itself, it's not, 12 by the way. But it could be. 13 So the DEC said all right, maybe 14 we'd better get rid of this stuff and they can 15 get that stuff out of it and change it. 16 That's what this is all about. Nobody knows 17 whether this is really dangerous or not or 18 whatever it is. 19 But what's really happening here -- 20 and I understand this is sort of the political 21 season. The truth is, this is a good bill 22 because -- and if you got everybody in, they 23 would say we don't know if there's anything 24 wrong with it. But ultimately we should 25 probably take if off because it might,

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(518) 371-8910 1 sometime later on, have a problem. 2 So I vote aye. 3 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 5 Volker in the affirmative. 6 Senator Skelos, to explain his 7 vote. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: If I could 9 explain my vote. 10 Listening to the debate, and I 11 guess I could say some of the comments 12 against, it would be like watching paint dry. 13 But I'm not going to do that. 14 But I'm going to support the bill. 15 And certainly I'm not going to question those 16 who are voting against it, although I do 17 believe it's anti-small business. And you 18 have the right to express your views and your 19 health concerns. 20 I'm going to take a little 21 different approach in terms of priorities. 22 Priorities, when we talk about healthcare, I'm 23 just curious where the members of the Minority 24 were when Governor Spitzer wanted to cut a 25 billion dollars out of healthcare, which would

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(518) 371-8910 1 have devastated our hospitals, devastated our 2 health delivery system, and not one word was 3 said by many of the members who are now 4 standing up in complete disbelief that 5 Governor Spitzer would be supporting this type 6 of legislation and that would be poisoning 7 their kids. 8 We discussed the death penalty 9 yesterday, and there were many comments made. 10 And, Senator Adams, I don't believe as a 11 former policeman you got up and spoke about -- 12 you voted against it, but you didn't speak 13 about why you thought it wouldn't protect 14 policemen. And I think that's an appropriate 15 place where we should have a lengthy 16 discussion, and certainly your expertise as a 17 policeman. 18 But again, I go back to the 19 healthcare issue. Where were you? Sitting 20 there quietly when Governor Spitzer gave you 21 orders to vote no. 22 So I think there's progress today. 23 We're starting to see some spine development 24 with many of the members of the Minority who 25 are now willing to say to Governor Spitzer:

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(518) 371-8910 1 If you're wrong, we're going to vote against 2 you. 3 I beg your pardon? Oh, judges' 4 raises, too. 5 So I congratulate you on some of 6 the spine that is being shown today, and I 7 hope that you will continue to do it during 8 the rest of the legislative process. 9 Mr. President, I vote aye. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 11 Skelos in the affirmative. 12 Announce the results. 13 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 14 the negative on Calendar Number 969 are 15 Senators Adams, Dilan, Duane, Gonzalez, 16 Hassell-Thompson, Huntley, Klein, L. Krueger, 17 Parker, Perkins, Sampson, Savino, 18 Schneiderman, Serrano, Stewart-Cousins. 19 Absent from voting: Senator C. 20 Kruger. 21 Ayes, 44. Nays, 15. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 23 bill is passed. 24 Senator Skelos, that completes the 25 reading of the controversial calendar.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SKELOS: Please recognize 2 Senator Robach. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: Senator 4 Robach. 5 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes, 6 Mr. President. On page 51 I offer the 7 following amendments to Calendar Number 781, 8 Senate Print Number 5287, and ask that the 9 said bill retain its place on the Third 10 Reading Calendar. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 12 amendments are received and adopted, and the 13 bill will retain its place on the Third 14 Reading Calendar. 15 Senator Skelos. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 17 is there any further business to come before 18 the Senate? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: There 20 is no further business, Senator Skelos. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: There being 22 none, I move we stand adjourned until Monday, 23 May 21st, at 3:00 p.m., intervening days being 24 legislative days. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: At the

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(518) 371-8910 1 request of Senator Skelos, I ask for order in 2 the chamber, that we may have a moment of 3 silence in memory of Yolanda Denise King, the 4 daughter of the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther 5 King, Jr. and Coretta Scott King, who passed 6 away today. 7 (Whereupon, the assemblage 8 respected a moment of silence.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: On 10 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until 11 Monday, May 21st, at 3:00 p.m., intervening 12 days being legislative days. 13 (Whereupon, at 12:47 p.m., the 14 Senate adjourned.) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

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