Tuesday, April 1, 2008

1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE 2 3 4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 April 1, 2008 11 1:34 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR THOMAS P. MORAHAN, Acting President 19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24 25

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(518) 371-8910 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 3 Senate will come to order. 4 And I ask everyone present to 5 please rise and repeat with me the Pledge of 6 Allegiance. 7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 10 invocation today will be given by the Reverend 11 Teddy R. Herron, pastor, Glen Baptist Church, 12 Watkins Glen. 13 Pastor. 14 REVEREND HERRON: Shall we pray. 15 Father, I thank You for these men 16 and women who give of their time and talent to 17 benefit the citizenry of our state. I pray 18 that You might give them wisdom, I pray that 19 You might give them safety. 20 Father, unite them. We know these 21 are stressful times. We know that they're 22 tired, and events are unfolding that are 23 unusual. Father, we pray for Your grace to be 24 upon them. We pray for discernment and 25 discretion.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Father, we thank You again for the 2 privilege we have of beginning this session in 3 prayer, with Your watchful care. Father, I 4 thank You that You are a friend that sticks 5 closer than a brother. 6 Encourage these men and women to do 7 that which is right, and let them give an 8 account before You, having done their best. 9 We ask these things in the precious 10 name of my precious savior, Jesus Christ. 11 Amen. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 13 you, Reverend. 14 Reading of the Journal. 15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 16 Monday, March 31, the Senate met pursuant to 17 adjournment. The Journal of Sunday, March 30, 18 was read and approved. On motion, Senate 19 adjourned. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 21 Without objection, the Journal stands approved 22 as read. 23 Presentation of petitions. 24 Messages from the Assembly. 25 Messages from the Governor.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Reports of standing committees. 2 Reports of select committees. 3 Communications and reports from 4 state officers. 5 Motions and resolutions. 6 Senator Skelos. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 8 believe there are two substitutions at the 9 desk, if we could make them at this time. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 11 Secretary will read. 12 THE SECRETARY: On page 37, 13 Senator Golden moves to discharge, from the 14 Committee on Cities, Assembly Bill Number 15 10105 and substitute it for the identical 16 Senate Bill Number 6957, Third Reading 17 Calendar 625. 18 And on page 38, Senator Padavan 19 moves to discharge, from the Committee on 20 Codes, Assembly Bill Number 6011D and 21 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 22 Number 4209B, Third Reading Calendar 642. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 24 Substitutions ordered. 25 Senator Skelos.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 2 if we could adopt the Resolution Calendar at 3 this time. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: All in 5 favor of adopting the Resolution Calendar 6 signify by saying aye. 7 (Response of "Aye.") 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 9 Opposed say nay. 10 (No response.) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 12 Resolution Calendar is adopted. 13 Senator Skelos. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 15 if we could go to the noncontroversial reading 16 of the calendar. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 18 Secretary will read. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 524, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 21 6952, an act to amend the Highway Law, in 22 relation to designating a portion of State 23 Route 174. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 25 the last section.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 7 Senator DeFrancisco, to explain your vote. 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, 9 Mr. President, I vote aye. And I thank all 10 the members of the Senate for unanimously 11 passing this bill. 12 Father Joseph Champlin died in 13 January of 2008. In Central New York he was 14 truly a giant, a truly holy man who did 15 everything he could for everybody other than 16 himself. 17 He started a society called the 18 Guardian Angel Society to help inner city kids 19 to obtain a Catholic education at Catholic 20 schools, and that still lives on after his 21 death. He's written over fifty books, Father 22 Champlin had, and other millions of pages of 23 materials that he produced, and all of them 24 always had an inspirational message. 25 I've attended many wedding

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(518) 371-8910 1 ceremonies for family members that Father 2 Champlin presided over, and he truly was a 3 holy man. You could -- he just inspired 4 everybody that he was near at all times. 5 He also had these radio spots -- 6 all I could think of is like Bishop Fulton J. 7 Sheen when I was growing up. And his line 8 was, Father Champlin, was: "You may have 9 tried everything else, why not try God." And 10 he meant what he said. 11 And this is just a small tribute to 12 him and to all the people he was able to touch 13 and help, by passing this bill to name a 14 portion of the highway in my community in his 15 honor. 16 So again, thank all of you for 17 unanimously passing this important bill in 18 honor of a great man. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 20 Senator DeFrancisco, thank you. You will be 21 recorded as voting in the affirmative. 22 The Secretary will announce the 23 results. 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 41. Nays, 25 0.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 2 bill is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 551, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 4806, 5 an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 6 inciting to riot. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 8 the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect on the first of 11 November. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 16 Announce the results. 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 40. Nays, 18 2. Senators Duane and Perkins recorded in the 19 negative. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 21 bill is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 568, by Senator Rath, Senate Print 5194A, an 24 act to amend the General Business Law, in 25 relation to safe transfer.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 4 act shall take effect on the earliest of 5 either the 30th day after regulations or when 6 it shall have become law. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 8 the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 11 Announce the results. 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 43. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 14 bill is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 569, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 5919, 17 an act to amend the Agriculture and Markets 18 Law, in relation to certain claims. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 24 the roll. 25 (The Secretary called the roll.)

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 2 Announce the results. 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 43. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 570, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 5920, an 8 act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, 9 in relation to licensing of establishments. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 18 Announce the results. 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 42. Nays, 20 1. Senator Sampson recorded in the negative. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 22 bill is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 596, by Senator Young, Senate Print 5995A, an 25 act to authorize the conveyance of certain

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(518) 371-8910 1 state lands. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 10 Announce the results. 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 43. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 598, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 7115, an 16 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in 17 relation to allowing certain special assessing 18 units. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 24 the roll. 25 (The Secretary called the roll.)

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 2 Announce the results. 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 46. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 599, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 7116, an 8 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law, in 9 relation to adjusted base proportions. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 18 Announce the results. 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 21 bill is passed. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 613, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 2071, an 24 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to 25 annuity contracts.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 4 act shall take effect on the 90th day. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 9 Announce the results. 10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 12 bill is passed. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 618, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2827, an 15 act to amend the Agriculture and Markets Law, 16 in relation to promotion and marketing. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 25 Announce the results.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 51. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 619, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 6 6466, an act to amend the Agriculture and 7 Markets Law, in relation to prohibition of 8 animal fighting. 9 SENATOR DIAZ: Lay it aside. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 11 bill is laid aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 625, substituted earlier today by Member of 14 the Assembly Rosenthal, Assembly Print Number 15 10105, an act to permit the City Center of 16 Music and Drama, Inc. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 25 Announce the results.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 627, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 99, 6 an act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 7 the crime of aggravated harassment. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect on the first of 12 November. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 14 the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 17 Announce the results. 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 50. Nays, 19 2. Senators Duane and Montgomery recorded in 20 the negative. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 22 bill is passed. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 630, by Senator Alesi, Senate Print 278, an 25 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to

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(518) 371-8910 1 establishing. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect on the first of 6 November. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 8 the roll. 9 (The Secretary called the roll.) 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 11 Announce the results. 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 14 bill is passed. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 635, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 17 2739, an act to amend the Penal Law, in 18 relation to establishing. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect on the first of 23 November. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 25 the roll.

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(518) 371-8910 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 3 Announce the results. 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 53. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 639, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 3877, an 9 act to amend the Penal Law, in relation to 10 refusing. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect on the first of 15 November. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 17 the roll. 18 (The Secretary called the roll.) 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 20 Announce the results. 21 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 22 the negative on Calendar Number 639 are 23 Senators Duane, Montgomery, Perkins and 24 Schneiderman. 25 Ayes, 49. Nays, 4.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 2 bill is passed. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 642, substituted earlier today by Member of 5 the Assembly Pretlow, Assembly Print Number 6 6011D, an act to amend the Penal Law, in 7 relation to assaults. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect on the 90th day. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 16 Senator Hassell-Thompson, to explain your 17 vote. 18 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank 19 you, Mr. President, yes. 20 This is a bill that has been long 21 in coming. I want to thank Senator Padavan 22 for bringing this bill forward. 23 There's a young city enforcement 24 officer who had come to me about a year or so 25 ago, concerned about his safety and that of

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(518) 371-8910 1 others like him, and he said that he had been 2 trying to get this bill passed for quite a 3 while and had not been successful. And he 4 said that he was going to retire early because 5 he didn't feel that even though the job was a 6 good job and he liked it, and he enjoyed 7 working for the people of the City of 8 Mt. Vernon, he did not feel that anybody cared 9 about his safety. 10 And so he was the one who had 11 brought this to the attention of Assemblyman 12 Pretlow some time ago, and he thought that 13 somehow the people of New York State had begun 14 to forget about little people and working 15 people. 16 So, Senator Padavan, I want to 17 thank you for putting this bill forward. 18 And I encourage and appreciate the 19 support of my colleagues to get this passed on 20 behalf of Donald, who is somebody who really 21 does care about the job that he does, and he 22 does it with dignity and respect. 23 And I thank you. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 25 you, Senator.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Announce the results. 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 53. Nays, 3 0. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 5 bill is passed. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 656, by Senator Montgomery, Senate Print 3153, 8 an act to amend the Family Court Act and the 9 Social Services Law, in relation to removing 10 special powers. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 7. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 19 Announce the results. 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 53. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 22 bill is passed. 23 Senator Skelos, that completes the 24 noncontroversial reading of the calendar. 25 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. If we could go to the 2 controversial reading. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 4 Secretary will ring the bells. 5 The Secretary will read. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 619, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 8 6466, an act to amend the Agriculture and 9 Markets Law. 10 SENATOR DIAZ: Explanation. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 12 Senator Diaz, are you asking for an 13 explanation? 14 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes, sir. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 16 Senator DeFrancisco, an explanation has been 17 requested. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 19 Existing law makes it a Class A 20 misdemeanor for someone, as a spectator, 21 having placed an admission fee or having 22 wagered on an animal fight in an exhibition. 23 That was a Class A misdemeanor. 24 What this bill does, it takes out 25 the requirement that the person to be charged

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(518) 371-8910 1 with this crime had to pay an admission fee 2 or, on the other hand, had to wager. 3 So if you're a spectator at an 4 exhibition of animal fighting or animals and 5 fighting in a planned exhibition, you can be 6 charged with a Class A misdemeanor. 7 Assemblyman Kavanagh has the bill 8 in the Assembly, and it just was reported from 9 the Assembly Agricultural Committee to the 10 Codes Committee. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 12 you, Senator. 13 Senator Diaz. 14 SENATOR DIAZ: Mr. President, 15 will the sponsor yield for a question or two, 16 please? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 18 Senator DeFrancisco, will you yield? 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 21 Senator DeFrancisco yields. 22 SENATOR DIAZ: Senator 23 DeFrancisco, have you ever been in Puerto Rico 24 or any country in Latin America? 25 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I have been

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(518) 371-8910 1 to Puerto Rico. Yes, I have. 2 SENATOR DIAZ: Through you -- 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 4 Senator DeFrancisco, will you continue to 5 yield? 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 7 SENATOR DIAZ: While you were in 8 Puerto Rico, did you ever learn or anybody 9 told you about the culture in Puerto Rico? 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, in 11 general terms, I saw some of the culture in 12 Puerto Rico. I didn't need an explanation. 13 SENATOR DIAZ: Will you -- 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 15 Senator Diaz, you wish him to continue to 16 yield? 17 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes, 18 Mr. President, will the sponsor yield? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 20 Senator DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield? 21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 23 Senator DeFrancisco yields. 24 SENATOR DIAZ: Senator 25 DeFrancisco, I'm Puerto Rican, born and raised

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(518) 371-8910 1 in Puerto Rico. And in my country there are 2 two major cultural sports, horse racing and 3 cockfighting. And to us, that is part of our 4 culture and part of our life. 5 Now, here in New York, sometimes we 6 do Puerto Rican tradition and we do shows of 7 Puerto Rican culture. So that means that 8 you -- if in one of those exhibitions that we 9 are trying to show our culture, they have the 10 cockfighting and some people are there 11 watching, they could get arrested and subject 12 to a fine, a misdemeanor? 13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator, I 14 thought, rather than Puerto Rican, you were a 15 member of the New York State Senate. And 16 we're here making laws for the New York State 17 Senate and for the State of New York. 18 And so whatever the cultural 19 background is for whomever is here from 20 whatever other country, they're bound by the 21 laws of the State of New York. 22 And I believe that animal fighting 23 should not be conducted and people, whether 24 they're wagering or paying admission, by their 25 mere presence in being a spectator at an

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(518) 371-8910 1 exhibition are encouraging this kind of 2 activity. And in my judgment -- maybe not 3 yours -- but in my judgment, I don't think 4 that should be permitted in the State of 5 New York. 6 SENATOR DIAZ: Mr. President, 7 through you, will the sponsor continue to 8 yield? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 10 Senator DeFrancisco, will you continue to 11 yield? 12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 14 Senator yields. 15 SENATOR DIAZ: Senator 16 DeFrancisco, yes, I am a member of the Senate. 17 And I am Puerto Rican. 18 I would not question any one of my 19 fellow members here who happens to be a Jew, 20 who happens to be African-American, who 21 happens to be whatever. When those things 22 that we do in the State of New York affect or 23 might affect one of their cultures, we don't 24 question. We don't tell them, "You are part 25 of the State Senate."

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(518) 371-8910 1 Yes, I'm a member of the State 2 Senate, but I'm a Puerto Rican first. And as 3 a Puerto Rican, I'm telling you that we have 4 thousands and thousands and thousands if not 5 millions of Puerto Ricans here, and Hispanic 6 people, here in New York State. And as a 7 Hispanic, as Puerto Rican, I have to watch -- 8 even though I'm a member of the Senate, I have 9 to watch that those people are protected too, 10 and to tell them that if they are watching one 11 of those cockfights in a traditional cultural 12 thing, they might be arrested and charged as a 13 misdemeanor. 14 It is wrong. Even though, even 15 though animal fighting would be wrong, but it 16 is wrong to take people and to charge people 17 with a misdemeanor and make people criminals, 18 make people criminals and ruin people's 19 records just because they are watching a 20 cultural affair or something, they are 21 watching a show of a culture in another 22 country. 23 I would not do that to any other 24 country here, because there are things in this 25 state for other people's countries that I

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(518) 371-8910 1 don't -- that I don't appreciate. And they 2 might be wrong. 3 But that's what I want to say. 4 And, Mr. President, I think that this is 5 wrong, even though we have to try to protect 6 animals, but to tell people, to tell people 7 that if you are watching -- 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 9 Senator Diaz, is there a question? 10 SENATOR DIAZ: On the bill. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: On the 12 bill. Thank you, sir. 13 SENATOR DIAZ: Mr. President, I 14 understand that we have to protect animals and 15 whatever. But to tell people, to make people 16 criminals and to ruin people's records -- not 17 only Hispanics, any other tourist might be 18 watching one of those traditional cultural 19 affairs that we do throughout the years. And 20 to tell them that you are going to be arrested 21 and you're going to be charged with a 22 misdemeanor because you are watching how 23 cultural -- how people in other countries act, 24 that is wrong. I think that is unfair. And I 25 think that this bill should be voted down.

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(518) 371-8910 1 So thank you, Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 3 you, Senator. You will be recorded in the 4 negative. 5 Senator Padavan. 6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, 7 Mr. President. 8 The bill that Senator DeFrancisco 9 is amending the law was one that I adopted a 10 number of years ago. And I applaud him for 11 doing it, because it is an improvement on what 12 we already have. 13 The fact remains, Senator Diaz, 14 animal fighting in the State of New York -- 15 and indeed, as far as I know, most states, if 16 not all the states in this country -- is 17 illegal. And it is illegal for many reasons. 18 Whether it's dogs, whether it's birds, or 19 whatever the case may be. 20 What a message it sends to our 21 society that we find pleasure in seeing 22 animals -- I haven't finished, Senator. I'll 23 yield when I get down. So sit down and kind 24 of relax. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN:

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Diaz -- Senator Diaz, Senator Padavan 2 does not yield at this time. 3 SENATOR DIAZ: Please, 4 Mr. President, please -- 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 6 Senator Padavan has the floor. 7 SENATOR DIAZ: I think he's out 8 of order. You have to tell me to sit down, 9 not him. You have to tell me to sit down. 10 He's out of order. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Okay, 12 sit down. 13 (Laughter.) 14 SENATOR DIAZ: Okay, thank you, 15 sir. 16 (Laughter.) 17 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 18 Senator Padavan, will you continue. 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you. 20 I was starting to say that in my 21 view it's a terrible message to give our young 22 people -- society in general -- that it's fun, 23 that it's sport, that it's something that is 24 desirable to watch animals kill each other. 25 And that's basically what cockfighting is all

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(518) 371-8910 1 about, watching those birds get in that arena 2 and kill each other. 3 We all have cultures. And if you 4 want to go far back in my culture as an 5 Italian, we had events in the Coliseum where 6 we put people down there to kill each other. 7 If your ancestry was in jolly old England, 8 they had events where men with broadswords and 9 lances would try and kill each other, and 10 people stood in the stands and applauded and 11 cheered. 12 But we have evolved as a society, 13 hopefully for the better, and we view these 14 things with a completely different point of 15 view. 16 And so again, Senator DeFrancisco, 17 I applaud you on your bill, I'm happy to vote 18 for it, and now I'll yield to any question 19 that Senator Diaz has. 20 SENATOR DIAZ: Will Senator 21 Padavan yield for a question, Mr. President? 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: He 24 yields. 25 SENATOR DIAZ: Senator Padavan,

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(518) 371-8910 1 immigrants in the State of New York and the 2 nation, it's illegal, right? Are you telling 3 me right now in front of the camera and in 4 front of everybody that we should deport all 5 of them? 6 SENATOR PADAVAN: That we should 7 what? 8 SENATOR DIAZ: Deport all of 9 them. 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Deport them? 11 SENATOR DIAZ: Yeah. Because 12 it's illegal to be -- it's illegal to be here 13 without documents. 14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Illegal 15 immigrants? 16 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes. 17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Under many 18 circumstances, yes. But I don't understand 19 the relevance to these animals that are 20 fighting in a pen. 21 SENATOR DIAZ: You said that 22 animal fighting is illegal in this state. 23 SENATOR PADAVAN: It is. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 25 Senators, please direct your answers and

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(518) 371-8910 1 questions through the chair. 2 SENATOR DIAZ: Through you, 3 Mr. President, will the Senator yield for a 4 question? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 6 Senator, will you continue to yield? 7 SENATOR PADAVAN: If it's on the 8 bill, I'll be happy to. 9 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes, I'm going to 10 make some comparisons here. 11 You yourself said, Senator, that 12 the bill is okay because animal fighting in 13 this state is illegal. 14 SENATOR PADAVAN: I said more 15 than that, Senator, if you listened to me. 16 SENATOR DIAZ: Excuse me, I'm 17 asking the question. 18 SENATOR PADAVAN: I said it's 19 illegal, and the reason it's illegal -- 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 21 Gentleman. Gentlemen, please. 22 SENATOR DIAZ: He's 23 interrupting -- 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Let me 25 just ask you this both, please.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DIAZ: I'm asking the 2 question. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: When 4 you ask the question, let us know when the 5 question is over, okay, so he knows when to 6 respond. 7 (Laughter.) 8 SENATOR DIAZ: All right. Okay. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: And, 10 Senator, I wish you'd wait until he's 11 finished. 12 Thank you. 13 SENATOR DIAZ: Okay. So, Senator 14 Padavan, you said that animal fighting in this 15 state is illegal. Therefore, the bill is 16 okay. 17 I'm asking you that it's also 18 illegal to be in this state without documents. 19 Would you tell me now that, because it is also 20 illegal, we should send all of them back to 21 their country? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 23 There's the question. 24 SENATOR DIAZ: That's the 25 question.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. 2 President -- 3 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes or no. 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: Don't say "yes 5 or no." I'll answer the question any way I 6 wish. 7 The fact remains that I don't find 8 any relevance whatsoever, as far as your 9 question is concerned, to the bill before us. 10 This activity that we're dealing 11 with is both inhumane, it's unseemly, it's a 12 wrong message, it tells an awful, terrible 13 thing about where society is in certain 14 categories. And it's against the law in the 15 State of New York, if not in this entire 16 nation. 17 And therefore, this bill, which 18 provides penalties for those who participate 19 even as spectators, makes a great deal of 20 sense. 21 SENATOR DIAZ: Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Yes, 23 Senator Diaz. 24 SENATOR DIAZ: I am so sad and so 25 sorry that Senator Padavan, a lawyer -- you're

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(518) 371-8910 1 a lawyer; right? 2 SENATOR PADAVAN: No, I'm not. 3 SENATOR DIAZ: Senator -- 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: We 5 don't need any animal fighting up here. 6 (Laughter.) 7 SENATOR DIAZ: I am so sad, so 8 disappointed that Senator Padavan, a New York 9 State Senator for so many years, knows that 10 animal fighting is illegal, therefore the bill 11 is okay, and he doesn't see the comparison of 12 if this is illegal, also immigrants that have 13 no papers are illegal and must leave. 14 If he -- because it's illegal to be 15 here, if we -- we could send all of them back, 16 yes or no. And he -- he refuses to answer 17 that simple academic and kindergarten 18 question. 19 Thank you, sir. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 21 you, Senator. 22 Any other Senator wish to be heard? 23 Senator Montgomery. 24 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, 25 Mr. President, thank you.

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(518) 371-8910 1 I just would like to make a note 2 here, it's my understanding in reading this 3 legislation that while we are debating whether 4 or not we agree or whether or not it is legal 5 to have animal fights, the bill actually just 6 talks about those people who are happen to be 7 in attendance at a fight and what happens to 8 them. 9 And it says here that what Senator 10 DeFrancisco is doing is changing the law so 11 that rather than stipulating that people will 12 be attending, having paid an admission fee or 13 having made a wager, in those cases they would 14 be guilty -- he is removing that language. 15 And he says simply by being there, 16 whether or not you knew that it was going to 17 be happening or you know that it's illegal or 18 whatever, you will be liable for a $1,000 19 fine, charged with a misdemeanor, you will be 20 able guilty automatically of a misdemeanor 21 punishable by incarceration of up to one year 22 and/or a fine of up to $1,000. 23 So I just wanted to clarify that, 24 that that's exactly what this language does, 25 and that's why I will be voting no on this

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(518) 371-8910 1 bill. 2 Thank you. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 4 Senator Montgomery will be recorded in the 5 negative, and thank you for the clarification. 6 Senator Schneiderman. 7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 8 Mr. President. If the sponsor would yield for 9 some questions. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 11 Senator DeFrancisco, will you yield for a 12 question? 13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 15 Senator. 16 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: The 17 operative provision of this bill states that 18 the knowing presence as a spectator at any 19 place where an exhibition of animal fighting 20 is being conducted shall be guilty of a 21 misdemeanor. 22 Is there any requirement in this 23 bill that it is a live animal fight? It says 24 an exhibition of animal fighting. What 25 prevents someone from -- some over-aggressive

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(518) 371-8910 1 prosecutor from pursuing someone who's 2 watching animal fighting on video? That is 3 indeed an exhibition of animal fighting. 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, 5 Senator, thanks, and I thank Senator 6 Montgomery as well for her explanation of the 7 bill. 8 It's exactly what I said from the 9 outset. What I said from the outset is it's 10 removing the requirement that you have to 11 wager or you have to pay admission to be 12 prosecuted under this bill. 13 The bill talks about animal 14 fighting, and this law has been in existence 15 for many, many years and it has always applied 16 to live animal fighting. 17 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 18 you, Mr. President, has there ever been any 19 incident in this or any other state in which 20 there has been a prosecution of animal 21 fighting displayed on video? For example, the 22 State of Virginia I will call to your 23 attention. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 25 Senator DeFrancisco, will you continue to

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(518) 371-8910 1 yield? 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 3 I don't know the answer to that 4 question. I put this bill in because I 5 think's it's inhumane for people to watch 6 animal fighting, whether you pay or whether 7 you wager or anything else. They don't have a 8 choice whether they're killing each other. 9 Others may. Humans may have that choice. 10 So my point is that maybe you have 11 a good point. Maybe I should expand the bill 12 to include video animal fighting as well. But 13 right now we're talking about live animal 14 fighting. 15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 16 Mr. President. Through you, if the sponsor 17 will continue to yield. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Sure. 19 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I want to 20 stipulate that I'm absolutely opposed to 21 animal fighting. I'm opposed to the abuse of 22 animals. Indeed, I'm a vegetarian. There's 23 no one more opposed to abuse of animals in 24 this house than I, except perhaps Senator 25 Serrano, who thinks, you know, you shouldn't

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(518) 371-8910 1 squash flies. 2 (Laughter.) 3 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: But having 4 stipulated that I believe anyone who sponsors 5 or wagers on animal fighting should be 6 punished, Senator, I think, I hope you 7 recognize that this bill creates a misdemeanor 8 for someone who is present -- not even at an 9 exhibition, at any place where an exhibition 10 of animal fighting is being conducted. 11 So I believe, from my 12 interpretation of this bill -- please correct 13 me if I'm wrong -- is that if I'm in a bar and 14 there is animal fighting is going on in the 15 back, I am in a place where an exhibition is 16 being conducted and I'm guilty of an 17 misdemeanor. Is that not true? 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator, 19 the volume of your voice doesn't add to the 20 clarity of the question. 21 All I wanted to suggest to you -- 22 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: It doesn't 23 diminish from it either, Senator. 24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: -- is it is 25 the clear understanding of this bill, as the

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(518) 371-8910 1 law has been in effect forever, that we're 2 talking about somebody watching an animal 3 fight -- I believe whether you wager, whether 4 you pay to watch it, or whether you just are 5 there watching it, it encourages these types 6 of exhibitions. And that's the clear 7 understanding of the bill. 8 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you. 9 So, Mr. President, through you, 10 there is no requirement in this bill, is 11 there, that someone actually be watching? It 12 states very explicitly "presence at a place 13 where an exhibition is being conducted." 14 If you can point me to where it 15 says you have to be watching, enjoying, 16 looking at, or participating in any way, 17 please point it to us right now. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: It doesn't 19 say "watching," it says "present at a place 20 where an exhibition is going on." 21 I would think any rational human 22 being would understand that the logic behind 23 the bill is to not encourage these fights, and 24 those people who are participating by 25 spectating are encouraging those types of

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(518) 371-8910 1 fights. 2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you. 3 Through you, Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 5 Senator DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield? 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Is the 8 knowing presence -- is someone's knowing 9 presence at any place where prostitution is 10 taking place a misdemeanor? 11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Are we 12 talking government officials or -- 13 (Laughter.) 14 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: You know, 15 we haven't had a public confession for a 16 while. If you want to go ahead, John, I'm 17 here. 18 (Laughter.) 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No, I want 20 to clarify the question. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 22 Gentlemen, stay on the subject. 23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I don't 24 know if there's some offense under the various 25 criminal statutes dealing with sexual

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(518) 371-8910 1 misconduct, whether being present in the 2 brothel might -- I don't know, I don't think 3 it would fit in any of those statutes. 4 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you. 5 Through you, Mr. President, is the 6 knowing presence of a person -- 7 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 8 Senator, do you continue to yield? 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 10 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Is the 11 knowing presence of a person at a crackhouse a 12 misdemeanor? 13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I don't 14 believe it is. But it's food for thought as 15 far as other legislation. 16 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Is the 17 knowing presence of a person at a speakeasy or 18 an after-hours club -- 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Let's 20 get some order in the house, please. 21 Senator DeFrancisco, do you 22 continue to yield? 23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Are there 24 still speakeasies? Are there still 25 speakeasies, Mr. President?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: There are 2 indeed after-hours clubs where liquor is sold 3 illegally. 4 Is the knowing presence of a person 5 at a place where liquor is being illegally 6 sold a misdemeanor? 7 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No, it's 8 not. 9 And being present at a Senate 10 debate is not an A misdemeanor either. 11 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Well, 12 thank goodness for that. 13 Thank you. Mr. President, on the 14 bill. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: On the 16 bill, Senator Schneiderman. 17 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I think 18 what we have here is something that, while 19 well-intended, goes far beyond what any 20 reasonable person in the Senate would want to 21 place in the law. 22 I am absolutely opposed to animal 23 fighting. Anyone who sponsors animal 24 fighting, anyone who organizes gambling around 25 animal fighting should be prosecuted. But

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(518) 371-8910 1 what this bill does is it essentially 2 criminalizes conduct by people who may be 3 innocent observers and criminalizes conduct by 4 people who fit into a certain cultural milieu. 5 I disagree with Senator Diaz on 6 many things, but I do not disagree with the 7 fact that there is a move towards 8 criminalization of social conduct that may 9 involve wearing certain kinds of clothes that 10 are typical of certain neighborhoods and 11 communities in our state, or the 12 criminalization of drugs in a way so that the 13 possession of same amount of crack cocaine 14 subjects one to a far more serious sentence 15 than the possession of the exact same amount 16 of powered cocaine. 17 This bill is drafted in a way that 18 is so broad that it threatens to sweep into 19 its net thousands of New Yorkers who are doing 20 nothing more than being present at a place -- 21 not even present at the exhibition, present at 22 a place where the exhibition is taking place. 23 If it said "if you are knowingly 24 present and watching an exhibition," that 25 would be one thing. But it doesn't say that.

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(518) 371-8910 1 It says if you are present at any place where 2 an exhibition of animal fighting is being 3 conducted, you're guilty of a misdemeanor. 4 This is far too broad, ladies and 5 gentlemen. I think it's far too broad. And I 6 think there's, frankly, a constitutional issue 7 here, because the place where an exhibition of 8 animal fighting is being conducted could, I 9 suppose, refer to any large building where 10 animal fighting is being conducted if it's one 11 facility. 12 This is far too broad for us. This 13 criminalizes conduct that should not be 14 criminalized of people who just may be passing 15 through, may be going to pick up something 16 from someone who is present in another part of 17 the building. 18 But I would also urge you to 19 consider the cultural suggestion here. 20 Senator Diaz raises an interesting point. We 21 have a major civil rights issue in this 22 country, and that's the fact that we have 14 23 or 15 million people, undocumented immigrants 24 here. They are not leaving. They are not 25 leaving if we're mean to them or if we make it

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(518) 371-8910 1 difficult for them to live. 2 We should distinguish between the 3 issue of controlling our borders, which we 4 have to do, and the issue of what to do with 5 these 14 or 15 million people who are here 6 cooking our food, mowing our lawns, taking 7 care of our children. 8 Any time one of them is found 9 guilty of a misdemeanor, they face 10 deportation. This could make anyone from the 11 communities where this horrible sport takes 12 place, or who's a relative of or a friend of 13 someone who is interested in this horrible 14 sport, subject to deportation. 15 It's much more than an A 16 misdemeanor. And it's much more than 17 something that punishes those who are actually 18 active participants in the horrible sport of 19 animal fighting. 20 This bill should be withdrawn, 21 Mr. President. I urge everyone here to vote 22 no. If you believe in civil liberties, if you 23 believe in equal rights, and if you believe 24 that like conduct should be treated alike, 25 vote no.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Thank you, Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 3 you, Senator. 4 Senator Connor. 5 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, 6 Mr. President. 7 You know, I just heard a debate 8 between two distinguished lawyers, and I think 9 they weren't coming down in the right place. 10 "Knowing presence." To lawyers, 11 that means that an element of the crime is 12 something we call scienter. And the 13 prosecutor must prove scienter beyond a 14 reasonable doubt as an element of the crime. 15 And scienter means that you knew when you went 16 there that you were going to see a cockfight. 17 If you just wandered in there because you 18 thought it was a fruit market or something and 19 there was a cockfight, there's no scienter and 20 you can't be convicted. 21 And I will say this, Mr. President. 22 I can't cite the law, but I have a 23 recollection of bills we passed, and I think 24 they became law. I believe the knowing 25 presence of person at a sexual performance by

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(518) 371-8910 1 a minor is a crime. Does that sound right? 2 That's the law. So there are areas where just 3 the knowing presence at something, at a 4 performance that's a particularly heinous or 5 offensive to our moral values, is a crime. 6 And I'm supporting this bill 7 because -- and look, I know cultural 8 differences. And I've been to Puerto Rico. 9 In Isla Verde there's a -- I forget what you 10 call it in Spanish, there's an arena for 11 cockfights. I've walked by it many times. 12 The restaurant is near there. 13 (Laughter.) 14 SENATOR CONNOR: There's a casino 15 across the street too. But I haven't been in 16 it. I haven't been in it. 17 But the fact is that in all 50 18 states, animal fights are illegal. And 19 recently a newspaper of record, in commenting 20 about an incident involving a professional 21 athlete at a cockfight in the Dominican 22 Republic, said nowhere in the U.S. is it 23 permitted. Well, under the U.S. flag it is 24 permitted. It's legal in Puerto Rico. And I 25 respect the culture there.

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(518) 371-8910 1 You know, I also represent 2 Chinatown, in Manhattan. A lot of 3 Asian-Americans. For my birthday a few weeks 4 ago, my wife gave me something, a book she 5 thought I would enjoy. It's a collection of 6 food articles over the years that appeared in 7 The New Yorker. I forget the title of the 8 book, but it's Calvin Trillin, different 9 people, articles they wrote about restaurants 10 around the world. 11 And one I particularly enjoyed 12 reading was about a food writer who went to a 13 city in China, a small city in China that was 14 noted for its specialty, and there were two 15 major competing restaurants that served the 16 specialty. The specialty was rats. 17 And they believed that rat would 18 take your gray hair and turn it dark and be 19 real healthy for you. And everyone for 20 centuries in this city was eating rat. And it 21 was explained these were mountain rats that 22 lived on fruit and all, they weren't city rats 23 that lived on garbage. 24 And he described how people would 25 come down from the mountains every day with a

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(518) 371-8910 1 bagful of rats. And the rats were alive in 2 cages outside, and you picked out whether you 3 wanted a fat one or a skinny one, and they 4 served it a million different ways. 5 I daresay, in respect for my 6 Asian-American constituents, I don't think we 7 would allow a restaurant to open in Manhattan 8 whose specialty was serving rat. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 10 Knowingly. 11 (Laughter.) 12 SENATOR CONNOR: Knowingly, good 13 point. Mr. President, a very good point. At 14 least knowingly to the patrons. 15 So there are other traditions 16 throughout the world. You know, in particular 17 in China, for centuries, all sorts of animals 18 were killed. 19 But, you know, it's not just Asians 20 or Latinos. Today's New York Times has a 21 story about Switzerland and how it is still 22 legal in Switzerland to shoot cats. You can 23 shoot wild cats, or they can shoot your cat if 24 it's more than 200 yards away from your home. 25 Legally. And they sell it to tanners, and

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(518) 371-8910 1 they put out products made from cat fur. 2 And apparently this was the custom 3 in Italy for a long time, but they banned it 4 recently. The European Union banned it. But 5 Switzerland is not part of the European Union. 6 So now there's a push in Switzerland to say 7 you're going to stop hunting cats. And they 8 had accounts in there of people whose pet went 9 missing and presumably ended up being part of 10 a rug or blanket or whatever. 11 So there are different cultural 12 traditions. And people from all those 13 traditions come here. And we certainly relish 14 them preserving most of their cultural 15 traditions. 16 But we have our own standards here, 17 and those standards people must conform to. 18 It is not -- we have made a judgment here it 19 is not legal for animals to fight here. We 20 find it offensive -- I find it offensive -- 21 and we want to discourage these exhibitions. 22 And one way you do that is by discouraging 23 people coming to them. No exhibition will be 24 held for very long if nobody shows up to 25 watch.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And while I appreciate the present 2 law says you're guilty if you wager, that's -- 3 if you wager with the house, you can prove 4 that they were placing bets. What about two 5 spectators who just make a quiet side bet? No 6 money changes hands, they just say "Bet you 20 7 bucks the fat rooster wins." You know? How 8 are you going to prove that? 9 So I support this bill. I support 10 this bill, knowing that it has that scienter 11 provision, the innocent people who happen to 12 be at a cockfight and can't be prosecuted. 13 I really also don't think very many 14 people -- nobody is going to jail for being 15 there. But it's going to discourage people 16 from attending, and therefore it will 17 discourage people from holding these 18 exhibitions. 19 So, Mr. President, with respect for 20 all the wonderful diverse cultures that thrive 21 in our society, we do have a right and it is 22 proper to insist on conformity to certain 23 basic values that we as a society hold -- and 24 we may not always have held. Once upon a 25 time, I'm sure you could have cockfights here.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Once upon a time. 2 Look, in America we're not without 3 fault. The rodeo is a great American 4 tradition. And I don't know, someday maybe 5 people think some guy taking the horns of a 6 bull and twisting its neck until it flips over 7 is inhumane. When that day comes, I'll look 8 forward to it. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 10 Senator Diaz, are you asking Senator Connor to 11 yield? 12 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 14 Senator Connor, do you yield to Senator Diaz? 15 SENATOR CONNOR: Certainly. 16 SENATOR DIAZ: Senator Connor, 17 due to the fact that you yourself are a lawyer 18 and people should be condemned when they 19 knowingly -- what was the word you used? 20 SENATOR CONNOR: Scienter. It's 21 a Latin word, scienter. From which the word 22 "science" comes, knowledge. 23 SENATOR DIAZ: Oh. So knowingly, 24 knowingly. The fact that you're a lawyer, and 25 you are saying those people that commit a

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(518) 371-8910 1 crime or violate the law should be prosecuted, 2 will you tell me that all those Chinese and 3 Asians in your district that knowingly violate 4 the law and came here, should they be 5 deported? Yes or no. 6 SENATOR CONNOR: No, I won't 7 answer yes or no. 8 SENATOR DIAZ: Oh, you won't 9 answer the question because -- 10 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President, 11 will you call the Senator to order, please. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 13 Senator refuses to answer. 14 SENATOR CONNOR: No, I will 15 answer the question. I refuse to be 16 cross-examined and demanded a yes or no 17 answer. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Fine. 19 Answer it your way. 20 SENATOR CONNOR: The answer to 21 the question, Mr. President, is I do not 22 support deporting any illegal immigrants. I 23 think we should make all so-called illegal 24 immigrants -- 25 SENATOR DIAZ: Mr. President --

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR CONNOR: Excuse me. I'm 2 not finished, Mr. President. 3 I support a path to legalization 4 for all undocumented immigrants who are in 5 this country. I think this country's 6 immigration policies have been a sham and are 7 shameful, and I support the rights of all 8 people who are here to be legalized, to work, 9 to drive, to do everything else. And I don't 10 see the comparison. 11 And frankly, Mr. President, it's 12 like we have many great French restaurants. A 13 great delicacy in France is horsemeat. It's a 14 staple in France. I think we just passed a 15 bill, didn't we, to make the sale for human 16 consumption of horsemeat in New York illegal? 17 I don't think that's a slap at French people 18 or French people who run restaurants in 19 Manhattan. 20 So I don't see the comparison of 21 that with undocumented immigrants. I support 22 rights for undocumented immigrants across the 23 board. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: I 25 would just respectfully remind --

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR CONNOR: Whether they're 2 in Chinatown or the Lower East Side in my 3 district. Or Williamsburg. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: I 5 would just respectfully remind the body that 6 today is April first. 7 Go ahead, Senator Diaz. 8 SENATOR DIAZ: Would Senator 9 Connor yield for another question. 10 SENATOR CONNOR: Certainly, 11 Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 13 Senator yields. 14 SENATOR DIAZ: It is -- it is -- 15 I'm going to ask a question, but you'll have 16 to allow me to -- it is very -- I don't know, 17 I would not call it hypocritical, I would call 18 it confused that you are trying to show the 19 reasoning of the law by saying animal fighting 20 is illegal in the country, that therefore we 21 shall obey the law. 22 But when I ask the simple question, 23 Senator Connor, like I asked Senator Padavan, 24 if that is the case, Senator Connor, if that 25 is the case, that because it's illegal to do,

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(518) 371-8910 1 that they should be punished, what about the 2 Chinese and the illegals in your district that 3 are illegal, shall we deport them, yes or no? 4 Because if the law is good for one thing, it 5 should be good for the other. You cannot make 6 exceptions to the law. 7 Thank you Mr. President. 8 So answer, please. 9 SENATOR CONNOR: Mr. President, I 10 don't think the Latino immigrants in my 11 district or the Asian immigrants or the Jewish 12 immigrants who are there or the Irish 13 immigrants -- some of my favorite 14 bartenders -- should be deported. I think a 15 path to their legalization should be found. 16 In the meantime, I think a way for 17 them to work, drive, and otherwise function in 18 our society should be found. And I don't see 19 the comparison. 20 And in fact, Senator Diaz used the 21 word "condemn" these people. I don't think we 22 should condemn anyone in this state, and I've 23 said that for the last 30 years whenever we 24 debate the death penalty. And that's how I 25 understand condemnation in the criminal law.

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(518) 371-8910 1 The fact is I think we should make 2 a statement here. I really don't think 3 prosecutorial discretion is going to result in 4 a lot of people ending up -- if any -- in jail 5 over this. But it will be a message to the 6 public that you're here, you have to change. 7 It will be a message to exhibitors that you 8 can't hold these exhibitions because no one 9 will be able to knowingly attend and still 10 abide by the law. 11 SENATOR DIAZ: Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Before 13 you speak, Senator, I just want to 14 respectfully point out I don't believe that 15 your questions on illegal immigrants are 16 really germane to this argument. 17 SENATOR DIAZ: Mr. President, it 18 is very relevant. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: I'd 20 ask that you keep your questions germane. 21 SENATOR DIAZ: Mr. President, the 22 question is very relevant. Because we cannot 23 do -- we cannot violate the law when it is 24 convenient for us. 25 Me, I protect the illegal

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(518) 371-8910 1 immigrants. And I say if we going to go by 2 the law, sometimes the law gets broken, 3 sometimes the law gets broken to accommodate, 4 politically, people. When it's convenient, 5 the law gets broken. 6 What I'm saying is we are willing, 7 we are willing here now to say that a tourist 8 or anybody that is in a place who happens to 9 be at a cockfight or any fight to be punished 10 and to ruin the record of that person and for 11 that person to be subject to a misdemeanor and 12 a $1,000 fine when maybe the person don't even 13 know that there is a fight, an animal fight. 14 And we're willing to say, oh, yeah, 15 because the law says you're illegal -- I'm 16 asking if you are so dedicated to defend the 17 law, tell me, shall we deport illegal 18 immigrants? But because of political 19 inconvenience, nobody dares to answer. Nobody 20 dares. They go (gesturing) -- they're 21 circumventing the answer. 22 So don't come here to tell me that 23 the law has to be obeyed here and then we can 24 disobey here. If you're going to disobey the 25 law, tell me. But don't use that technique

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(518) 371-8910 1 here that because it's illegal, we have to do 2 this, we have to process and make criminals of 3 tourists and people watching -- the people 4 that are in a place that they might not know 5 that it's happening, we can make them criminal 6 because the law says it's illegal. 7 That's wrong, that is wrong, that 8 is not fair. For tourists, for people, that 9 is not fair. I mean, I'm against animal 10 fighting. I am against animal fighting. But 11 to subject a person who happens to be in a 12 place that there are animal fighting, to tell 13 those people "you are a criminal," it's wrong. 14 It is wrong, and it is wrong, and it is wrong. 15 Thank you. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 17 you, Senator. 18 Senator Adams. 19 SENATOR ADAMS: Thank you, 20 Mr. President. 21 You know, I think that Senator 22 Diaz -- my first impression was to vote 23 against -- was to vote in favor of the bill. 24 And I thank Senator Diaz and Senator 25 Schneiderman for the aspects that they have

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(518) 371-8910 1 raised. 2 I think the first time that I saw 3 an animal die from fighting, I thought it was 4 tragic. And the animal was a human being. So 5 there's a level of hypocrisy to our tone that 6 we allow Ultimate Fighting Champions when we 7 state that violence among an animal is wrong. 8 I think our children mimic violence in the 9 ring more than they mimic violence between two 10 birds fighting. 11 So if our underlying concern is not 12 to create a culture in our society where 13 animals duplicating violent behavior is handed 14 down to our children, then I think we really 15 need to look at the sport that started out 16 with two men wearing a glove and has now 17 evolved to two people in a ring beating 18 themselves to a senseless nature. 19 I just want to deal with two 20 technical aspects of the bill that I think are 21 important. 22 True, it is the prosecutor's 23 responsibility to show if a person is 24 knowingly in the place. But that is not a 25 police officer's responsibility. When a

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(518) 371-8910 1 police officer enters a premise where there's 2 illegal action taking place, either gambling 3 or prostitution or any other illegal action, 4 whoever is inside that premise is part of the 5 sweep, and they all are arrested. 6 And although they may not be found 7 guilty in a court of law, once you have that 8 criminal record and the stigmatization that's 9 associated with being handcuffed, prosecuted, 10 fingerprinted and taken to central booking and 11 have to pay for an attorney and have to go 12 through the whole court procedure, you all of 13 a sudden have to go through the same incident 14 as a person who is actually convicted of a 15 crime. 16 So we can't dismiss that the mere 17 fact that the person has only been arrested is 18 not a great deal. I don't want us ever to 19 reach a point in our country where arrest is a 20 term that's called "only." When a person is 21 incarcerated, their entire life they relive 22 that experience. 23 And I think Senator Diaz raised an 24 important point that we cannot ignore. Under 25 the entire American flag, cockfighting is not

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(518) 371-8910 1 illegal. There is a place called Puerto Rico 2 where it's accepted. We do have men and women 3 who leave Puerto Rico, and they do come to 4 various parts of the state, carrying out their 5 culture. If we agree or disagree with it, 6 that's a whole other term. They don't know 7 that the mere fact that they're there, they're 8 breaking some form of a law. And I think he 9 raises a very important point. 10 I think we need to stop 11 cockfighting. I think that we need to stop 12 dogfighting. I think that we need to stop two 13 human beings in the ring fighting to kill each 14 other. I think it's wrong. I think it's the 15 wrong way to go. 16 I'm going to vote against this bill 17 because I think it's important that clarity 18 needs to be pointed out. Tourists and those 19 who come in and sit down and watch the action, 20 or if they're inside a premise that may have 21 more than one room and they're sitting there 22 in that premise, they should not be part of 23 that sweep. 24 We should not continue just to 25 criminalize people. We should always be

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(518) 371-8910 1 concerned that the goal of criminalization 2 should be to go after bad people that do bad 3 things, not good citizens that are in the 4 wrong place at the wrong time. And I think 5 that this bill may have a tendency to do that. 6 So I'm going to vote against this 7 bill. Hopefully we can correct it and narrow 8 the terminology to go after those who sponsor 9 the act of cockfighting or sponsor the act of 10 a particular illegal crime so we can go after 11 those individuals and not just two people who 12 left San Juan and decided to visit this place 13 on 103rd Street and happen to be in a premise 14 where cockfighting is taking place and, 15 instead of returning back to their home, they 16 return back to a correctional facility. 17 That's not the tone that I believe we want to 18 do. 19 Thank you, Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 21 you, Senator. 22 Any other Senator wishing to be 23 heard? 24 The debate is closed. 25 The Secretary will ring the bell.

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(518) 371-8910 1 The Secretary will read the last 2 section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 9 Senator DeFrancisco, to explain his vote. 10 Senator. 11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Just to 12 explain my vote. 13 This is a bill with a very simple 14 concept. Namely, if you're knowingly at a 15 location where an exhibition is going on where 16 two animals are fighting, that that person 17 should be guilty of a Class A misdemeanor if 18 convicted. 19 And the theory is very simple, that 20 if, as mentioned before, that if no one is 21 present -- 22 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Excuse 23 me, Senator. 24 Will you please, out of respect, 25 hold down the noise in the chamber. Take

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(518) 371-8910 1 conversations outside of the chamber. 2 Thank you, Senator. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: It's very 4 simple. If no one is there to watch, no one 5 is going to be providing those activities that 6 are otherwise illegal in this state. 7 I frankly cannot -- I have no idea 8 what the customs of Puerto Rico or Iran or 9 Italy or any other country have to do with 10 whether this is a good bill in the State of 11 New York. If we're a tourist in another 12 country, we abide by their rules, whatever 13 their rules are. You either think it's a good 14 idea or a bad idea. 15 But to bring in customs of other 16 countries to excuse liability for an act that 17 we think is an improper act, having these 18 types of exhibitions of people watching them, 19 I don't think has any logic at all. 20 To suggest also that I think these 21 things are bad, but we also have Ultimate 22 Fighting, that's bad too, as a reason to say 23 no to otherwise bad activity to make it 24 criminal, doesn't make sense to me either. 25 And what really doesn't make sense

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(518) 371-8910 1 to me is how in God's name you bring up 2 illegal immigration into a debate over whether 3 dogfighting and persons who are watching 4 dogfighting should be prosecuted. 5 So it's a simple bill. It will 6 help encourage eliminating this type of 7 activity. And I'm going to vote aye. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 9 you, Senator. 10 Senator Adams, to explain his vote. 11 SENATOR ADAMS: First of all, any 12 time we talk about incarcerating citizens of 13 this state is never simple. Any time you take 14 away a person's freedom, we should discuss it 15 to the full extent. 16 And any time we state the reason 17 for a bill that I heard today on this floor is 18 that we want to prevent our children from 19 participating in the actions of violence -- 20 any time we use that terminology and can't 21 understand that Ultimate Fighting Champion 22 encouraged more violence than two birds 23 fighting in a ring -- if we don't understand 24 that, then there's a level of hypocrisy for 25 the reason that we're submitting this bill.

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(518) 371-8910 1 One of the reasons that was stated 2 for this bill is because we don't want our 3 children to continue the actions of violence. 4 That was a reason that was used. And the 5 reason I'm voting against this bill is because 6 it's too broad in scope and it does not deal 7 specifically if a person is in the premise or 8 they're watching the fighting. 9 And as a 21-year veteran of the 10 police department, I'm well aware that 11 whenever a sweep takes place, that whoever is 12 in that premise, in the front room or the back 13 room, is also arrested. And that's why I'm 14 voting against this bill. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: Thank 16 you, Senator. You will be recorded in the 17 negative. 18 Announce the results. 19 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 20 the negative on Calendar Number 619 are 21 Senators Adams, Hassell-Thompson, Huntley, 22 Montgomery, Onorato, Parker and Schneiderman. 23 Also Senator Diaz. 24 Absent from voting: Senators 25 Gonzalez and C. Kruger.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Ayes, 50. Nays, 8. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 3 bill is passed. 4 Senator Libous. 5 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 6 can we return to motions and resolutions. I 7 believe there is a motion at the desk. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: 9 Motions and resolutions. 10 Senator Nozzolio. 11 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, 12 Mr. President. 13 On page number 34 I offer the 14 following amendments to Calendar Number 590, 15 Senate Print Number 467, and ask that said 16 bill retain its place on Third Reading 17 Calendar. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: So 19 ordered. 20 Senator Libous. 21 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 22 there will be an immediate conference of the 23 Majority in Room 332. 24 And we expect to return to session 25 at about 3:15.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: There 2 will be an immediate meeting of the Majority 3 in the Majority Conference Room, Room 332, and 4 we will return at 3:15. 5 Senator Duane. 6 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, 7 Mr. President. 8 In an effort to further our 9 celebration of April Fools Day, the Minority 10 conference will also be having an immediate 11 conference in our conference room. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT MORAHAN: The 13 Minority will have an immediate conference in 14 the Minority Conference Room. 15 Thank you, Senator. 16 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 17 ease at 2:45 p.m.) 18 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened 19 at 3:36 p.m.) 20 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 21 Senate will come to order. 22 Senator Skelos. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, I 24 believe there's a privileged resolution at the 25 desk. If we could have the title read and

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(518) 371-8910 1 move for its immediate adoption. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 3 Secretary will read. 4 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 5 Volker, Legislative Resolution Number 5050, 6 memorializing Governor David A. Paterson to 7 proclaim May 21, 2008, as Police Memorial Day 8 in the State of New York. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: All in 10 favor signify by saying aye. 11 (Response of "Aye.") 12 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: 13 Opposed, nay. 14 (No response.) 15 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: The 16 resolution is adopted. 17 Senator Skelos. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 19 there will be an immediate meeting of the 20 Finance Committee in the Majority Conference 21 Room. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT GRIFFO: There 23 will be an immediate meeting of the Finance 24 Committee in the Majority Conference Room. 25 The Senate stands at ease.

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(518) 371-8910 1 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 2 ease at 3:37 p.m.) 3 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened 4 at 3:41 p.m.) 5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 6 Senator Skelos. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 8 if we could return to reports of standing 9 committees for the Finance Committee report. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 11 Reports of standing committees. 12 The Secretary will read the Finance 13 Committee report. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator O. 15 Johnson, from the Committee on Finance, 16 reports the following bill direct to third 17 reading: 18 Senate Print 6808C, Senate Budget 19 Bill, an act to amend the Elder Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 21 Without objection, the bill is reported direct 22 to third reading. 23 The Secretary will read. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 690, Senate Budget Bill, Senate Print 6808C,

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(518) 371-8910 1 an act to amend the Elder Law, in relation to 2 reimbursement to participating provider 3 pharmacies. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 5 Senator Skelos. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 7 is there a message of necessity at the desk? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Yes, 9 there is. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Move to accept. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: All in 12 favor of accepting the message of necessity 13 signify by saying aye. 14 (Response of "Aye.") 15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 16 Opposed, nay. 17 (No response.) 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 19 message is accepted. 20 Read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: Call 24 the roll. 25 (The Secretary called the roll.)

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: 2 Announce the results. 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: The 5 bill is passed. 6 Senator Skelos. 7 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 8 is there any further business at the desk? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: There 10 is none, Senator. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: There being 12 none, I move we stand adjourned, subject to 13 the call of the Majority Leader. 14 And I would just ask that members 15 stay in touch with their respective leaders 16 and with your offices. 17 Thank you very much. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAZIARZ: On 19 motion, the Senate stands adjourned, subject 20 to the call of the Majority Leader. 21 (Whereupon, at 3:46 p.m., the 22 Senate adjourned.) 23 24 25

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