Monday, April 14, 2008

1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE 2 3 4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 April 14, 2008 11 3:07 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR ELIZABETH O'C. LITTLE, Acting President 19 STEVEN M. BOGGESS, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24 25

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 3 Senate will come to order. 4 I ask everyone present to please 5 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of 6 Allegiance. 7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 10 invocation today will be given by the Reverend 11 Peter G. Young, of Mother Theresa Community in 12 Albany. 13 REVEREND YOUNG: Thank you, 14 Senator. 15 As we share the prayer today, I ask 16 you to look above this podium at the stained 17 glass window. It's the state seal that has 18 been expressing "Excelsior" -- "ever upward." 19 It is replacing the place of the crown in 20 1777. Lady Liberty, with a peasant cap 21 representing democracy, has her left foot 22 stepping on the crown, representing the 23 rejection of royalty. 24 As citizens of the Empire State, we 25 have been the leader with our constitution,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 12 years before the federal Constitution. 2 As a national leader, You have 3 given these Senators a great power and 4 responsibility. Now may we pray that they 5 will always work in Your image and in Your 6 honor for all of our New York State citizens. 7 Amen. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 9 you, Father Young. 10 Reading of the Journal. 11 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 12 Sunday, April 13, the Senate met pursuant to 13 adjournment. The Journal of Saturday, 14 April 12, was read and approved. On motion, 15 Senate adjourned. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Without 17 objection, the Journal stands approved as 18 read. 19 Presentation of petitions. 20 Messages from the Assembly. 21 Messages from the Governor. 22 Reports of standing committees. 23 Reports of select committees. 24 Communications and reports from 25 state officers.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Motions and resolutions. 2 Senator Farley. 3 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, 4 Madam President. 5 On behalf of my seatmate here, 6 Senator Seward, on page 24 I offer the 7 following amendments to Calendar Number 341, 8 Senate Print 5775, and I ask that that bill 9 retain its place on the Third Reading 10 Calendar. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 12 amendments are received and adopted, and the 13 bill will retain its place on the Third 14 Reading Calendar. 15 SENATOR FARLEY: Madam President, 16 on behalf of Senator Bonacic, I have a motion 17 to amend a bill which was recalled from the 18 Assembly. And I wish to call up Senator 19 Bonacic's bill, Print Number 6903. It's 20 recalled from the Assembly, and it's now at 21 your desk. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 23 Secretary will read. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 522, by Senator Bonacic, Senate Print 6903, an

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 act to amend the Highway Law. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 3 Farley. 4 SENATOR FARLEY: Madam President, 5 I now move to reconsider the vote by which 6 this bill was passed. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 8 Secretary will call the roll on 9 reconsideration of the vote. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 32. 12 SENATOR FARLEY: Madam President, 13 I now offer the following amendments. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 15 amendments are received. 16 Senator Skelos. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 18 I believe there's a substitution at the desk. 19 If we could make it at this time. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 21 Secretary will read the substitution. 22 THE SECRETARY: On page 29, 23 Senator Alesi moves to discharge, from the 24 Committee on Investigations and Government 25 Operations, Assembly Bill Number 9906 and

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 2 Number 6883, Third Reading Calendar 435. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 4 substitution is ordered. 5 Senator Skelos. 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 7 there's a resolution at the desk by Senator 8 Maziarz, 5220. If we could have the title 9 read and move for its immediate adoption. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 11 Secretary will read. 12 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 13 Maziarz, Legislative Resolution Number 5220, 14 paying tribute to the New York State Alliance 15 of Boys and Girls Clubs 2008 Youths of the 16 Year. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 18 Maziarz. 19 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you very 20 much, Madam President. 21 It's a great honor for me to stand 22 today before my colleagues and recognize these 23 outstanding young women and men from across 24 New York State who are active in their local 25 boys and girls clubs.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 This celebration has been going on 2 for over 75 years, and it recognizes 3 outstanding youth who demonstrate leadership 4 skills, academic success, and a willingness to 5 serve their community. 6 Each year thousands of young people 7 who are active in their local boys and girls 8 clubs compete within their own organizations 9 for Youth of the Year, and then they all 10 gather here in Albany for two days. And out 11 of all of these outstanding youth, the boys 12 and girls clubs from across the state will 13 recognize an outstanding young person across 14 the entire state. That will be announced 15 tomorrow at the luncheon in the Well of the 16 LOB which you are all invited to. 17 And I just want to welcome them 18 here today to Albany. I was very active in 19 the Boys and Girls Clubs of the Tonawandas. 20 And I often say, being one of nine children in 21 the Maziarz family, if there was any 22 organization that was more responsible for me 23 getting elected to the New York State Senate 24 at the age of 40, it was the Vandervoort 25 Street Boys and Girls Club in the city of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 North Tonawanda. 2 So congratulations to all of you. 3 Congratulations on behalf of all of my 4 colleagues from across the state. 5 Thank you, Madam President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 7 you, Senator Maziarz. 8 On the resolution, all those in 9 favor signify by saying aye. 10 (Response of "Aye.") 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Those 12 opposed, nay. 13 (No response.) 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 15 resolution is passed. 16 Congratulations, and thank you for 17 being here. 18 Senator Skelos. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 20 there will be an immediate meeting of the 21 Rules Committee in the Majority Conference 22 Room. 23 The Senate will stand at ease. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 25 you. There's an immediate meeting of the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Rules Committee in the Majority Conference 2 Room. 3 The Senate stands at ease. 4 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 5 ease at 3:14 p.m.) 6 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened 7 at 3:18 p.m.) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 9 Skelos. 10 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 11 if we could go to the noncontroversial reading 12 of the calendar. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 14 you. The Secretary will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 116, by Senator Nozzolio, Senate Print 327, an 17 act to repeal paragraph (f) of subdivision 4 18 of Section 209 of the Civil Service Law. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 24 the roll. 25 (The Secretary called the roll.)

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 158, by Senator Volker, Senate Print 2337, an 6 act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules, 7 in relation to service of process. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 11 act shall take effect on the 180th day. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 17 bill is passed. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 175, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 645A, an 20 act to amend the Lien Law, in relation to 21 authorizing a lien. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 23 the last section. 24 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 25 act shall take effect on the 60th day.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 6 bill is passed. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 433, by Senator Padavan, Senate Print 5224, an 9 act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control 10 Law, in relation to form of notification. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect on the 120th day. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 48. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 20 bill is passed. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 435, substituted earlier today by Member of 23 the Assembly Schimminger, Assembly Print 24 Number 9906, an act to amend Chapter 391 of 25 the Laws of 2007.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 2 the last section. 3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 4 act shall take effect immediately. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 6 the roll. 7 (The Secretary called the roll.) 8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 49. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 10 bill is passed. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 472, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 864, an 13 act to amend the Uniform Commercial Code, in 14 relation to deeming goods. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 16 the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 20 the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 50. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 24 bill is passed. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 616, by Senator Seward, Senate Print 5138A, an 2 act to amend the Insurance Law, in relation to 3 provisions. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 50. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 683, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 16 4037, an act to amend the New York City Civil 17 Court Act, in relation to filing of commercial 18 claims. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 20 the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 24 the roll. 25 (The Secretary called the roll.)

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 3 bill is passed. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 684, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 6 4038, an act to amend the New York City Civil 7 Court Act, in relation to filing of commercial 8 claims. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 10 the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 14 the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 18 bill is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 688, by Senator Seward -- 21 SENATOR SKELOS: Lay it aside for 22 the day, please. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 24 bill is laid aside for the day. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 700, by Senator Larkin, Senate Print 1236, an 2 act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law, in 3 relation to the age of driver's license 4 photographs. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 6 the last section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 8 act shall take effect one year after it shall 9 have become law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 52. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 702, by Senator Winner, Senate Print 3237, an 18 act to amend the Highway Law, in relation to 19 authorizing county highway superintendents. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 25 the roll.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 53. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 704, by Senator Lanza, Senate Print 3682, an 7 act to amend the Highway Law, in relation to 8 transferring certain land. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 10 the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 14 the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 53. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 18 bill is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 710, by Senator LaValle, Senate Print 3659, an 21 act to amend the Education Law, in relation to 22 the practice of interior design. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 24 the last section. 25 THE SECRETARY: Section 9. This

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 act shall take effect one year after the date 2 on which it shall have become law. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 53. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 8 bill is passed. 9 Senator Skelos, that completes the 10 reading of the noncontroversial calendar. 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, 12 Madam President. If we could return to 13 reports of standing committees for the report 14 of the Rules Committee. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Reports 16 of standing committees. 17 The Secretary will read. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bruno, 19 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 20 following bills: 21 Senate Print 7521, by Senator 22 Robach, an act to amend the Labor Law; 23 And Senate Print 7551, by Senator 24 Skelos, an act to amend Chapter 20 of the Laws 25 of 2006.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Both bills ordered direct to third 2 reading. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 4 Skelos. 5 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 6 move to accept the report of the Rules 7 Committee. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 9 you. All those in favor of accepting the 10 Rules Committee report please signify by 11 saying aye. 12 (Response of "Aye.") 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Those 14 opposed, nay. 15 (No response.) 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 17 Rules report is accepted. 18 Senator Skelos. 19 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 20 if we could take up the Rules Committee report 21 at this time, noncontroversial. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 23 you. The Secretary will read. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 25 805, by Senator Robach, Senate Print --

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DUANE: Lay it aside, 2 please. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 4 bill is laid aside. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 806, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 7551, an 7 act to amend Chapter 20 of the Laws of 2006, 8 amending the Real Property Tax Law. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Read 10 the last section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 14 the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 53. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 18 bill is passed. 19 Senator Skelos. 20 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 21 if we could take up Calendar Number 805, 22 controversial. 23 If we could ring the bells first to 24 get the members into the chamber. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 you. The Secretary will ring the bell. 2 The Secretary will read. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 805, by Senator Robach, Senate Print 7521, an 5 act to amend the Labor Law. 6 SENATOR DUANE: Explanation, 7 please. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 9 you. Senator Robach, for an explanation. 10 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes, Madam 11 President. 12 This bill is a bill to address a 13 pay equity issue in the state, something I 14 think that probably everyone would agree on. 15 What the two major components of 16 this bill are is, one, a study to be done by 17 an outside agency -- not self-patrolling by 18 the businesses themselves, if you will, but 19 the Labor Department -- to quantify, review, 20 look at where we're at on that, the first 21 major component. 22 And then the second component, 23 maybe equally as important, if not more 24 important, is to increase the penalties for 25 something that shouldn't be going on at any

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 level or any percentage, whether we're one, 2 two, three, or four. Whether New York has a 3 good performance on pay equity compared to 4 other issues is really inconsequential. 5 To do all we can to stamp it out, 6 send a clear message that in this state 7 gender, any other reason, should not dictate 8 pay, we are increasing both the civil 9 penalties -- doubling them, as a matter of 10 fact -- for those violators right now today, 11 and also increasing the criminal penalties as 12 well, even greater than doubling them, raising 13 them from $1,000 up to $20,000 in, again, an 14 attempt to set the record straight, do what we 15 can on a pay equity issue. 16 And the only other thing that I 17 would add is this is something that's been 18 talked about for some time and, having the 19 privilege of being the new Labor chair, I said 20 that I would try to address. I think this 21 bill goes to that in both a direct and 22 beneficial manner for the working people of 23 New York State. 24 Thank you, Madam President. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 you. 2 Senator C. Johnson. 3 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 4 you, Madam President. Will Senator Robach 5 yield for a question. 6 SENATOR ROBACH: I certainly 7 will. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 9 you. Senator Robach yields. 10 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank you 11 very much, Madam President. Through you. 12 Senator Robach, when did you 13 introduce this piece of legislation? 14 SENATOR ROBACH: I don't know the 15 exact date, Senator Johnson. Fairly recently. 16 As I said in my opening remarks, 17 while this has been something that has been 18 critically important to me in my career, and a 19 lot of other labor issues, as the newly 20 appointed chairman of the Labor Committee I'm 21 trying to take a more aggressive role in 22 regard to this issue as well as many others. 23 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 24 you. Will the Senator continue to yield for a 25 question.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR ROBACH: Certainly. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 3 you. Senator Robach continues to yield, 4 Senator Johnson. 5 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 6 you. 7 For the record, to my 8 understanding, I have a copy of the 9 legislation that was presented before us. The 10 introduction date or the date of the bill is 11 April 9, 2008. 12 And I congratulate you on your 13 appointment to chairman of the Labor 14 Committee. 15 Before you introduced this piece of 16 legislation, have you introduced any other 17 legislation in connection with pay equity 18 issues? 19 SENATOR ROBACH: This is the bill 20 I've introduced that I think would address the 21 issue most beneficially. This is it. 22 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Okay, 23 Thank you. 24 SENATOR ROBACH: You have it. 25 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 you. 2 Madam President, will Senator 3 Robach continue to yield for a question. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 5 you. Senator Robach, do you continue to 6 yield? 7 SENATOR ROBACH: I will. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 9 Robach continues to yield. 10 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 11 you, Madam President. 12 And as chairman of the Labor 13 Committee, you are aware or are made aware by 14 your counsel of other bills that are referred 15 to your committee by Senators, whether they 16 are Majority Senators or Minority Senators? 17 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes, that's 18 true. Probably representing thousands of 19 bills that are introduced each year by our 20 collective colleagues. That's true. 21 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Will the 22 Senator continue to yield for a question. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 24 you. Senator Robach, do you continue to 25 yield?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR ROBACH: Certainly. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 3 you. Senator Robach continues to yield, 4 Senator Johnson. 5 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 6 you, Senator Robach. 7 I would love, actually, to get the 8 list of the thousands of bills that are 9 referred to the Senate Labor Committee, to 10 your committee, because obviously it sounds 11 like a lot. But I'll ask you about one 12 particular bill. 13 SENATOR ROBACH: I didn't say 14 referred. I thought you said introduced, 15 excuse me. 16 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Referred. 17 Referred. 18 But I will go to a bill that has 19 been referred to your committee. It's Senate 20 Number 3936, sponsored actually by myself. 21 Are you aware of that bill, which is entitled 22 the New York State Fair Pay Act? 23 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes. 24 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Madam 25 President, will the Senator continue to yield

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 for a question. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 3 you. Senator Robach, do you continue to 4 yield? 5 SENATOR ROBACH: I do. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 7 you. The Senator yields. 8 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 9 you. 10 And are you aware, Senator Robach, 11 that that piece of legislation was introduced 12 in the Senate on March 20, 2007, and then 13 immediately referred to the Labor Committee? 14 SENATOR ROBACH: Senator Johnson, 15 let me say this. I'm happy for whatever your 16 work is. The bill before us is this one. I 17 felt this was the best way to address the 18 issue. 19 Again, I do look at a lot of the 20 bills that are there. At the end of the day, 21 what I have to come up with on behalf of my 22 constituents, groups across the state I've 23 talked to, working men and women in my 24 district -- which I will admit to you 25 publicly, sometimes I give top preference

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 to -- I then determine what's the best way to 2 address this issue. 3 Clearly -- I'll say it again as I 4 did in the opening remarks -- I think that 5 outside agencies, not businesses 6 self-policing, is a better way to go. And I 7 think you have to put real teeth into it, with 8 some real consequences for those people even 9 today who are not following existing law and 10 rules. That's what I've attempted to do. 11 That's the bill we're on. I 12 noticed that most of your colleagues have 13 supported it in committee, as well as the 14 AFL-CIO and many other organizations. 15 Hopefully we'll get this passed. 16 Assemblywoman Mayersohn, a champion 17 for infants, children and others, is putting 18 this in in the Assembly. I did not stick to 19 party affiliation; I did this in a bipartisan 20 way to try and get the best result, get a bill 21 passed we can get to the Governor to address 22 this important issue. That's simply what I 23 tried to do. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 25 you. Could we have it a little quieter in the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 chamber, please, so the speakers can be heard. 2 Thank you. Senator Johnson. 3 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 4 you, Madam President. Will Senator Robach 5 yield for a question. 6 SENATOR ROBACH: I will. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 8 Robach continues to yield. 9 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 10 you, Senator Robach. Just trying to get more 11 of a procedural understanding here. 12 As I indicated on March 20, 2007, 13 my New York State Fair Pay Act was referred to 14 your committee. It was rereferred on January 15 9th. Are you aware that on April 3, 2008, we 16 filed a -- Minority counsel filed a notice of 17 motion to petition to discharge this bill on 18 April 3, 2008, six days before you -- five 19 days or, I'm sorry, six days before you 20 actually introduced this piece of legislation? 21 SENATOR ROBACH: I reluctantly -- 22 I don't want to hurt your feelings. I wasn't 23 aware of that. 24 Again, I operate as openly and 25 publicly as I can. You know, my goal is to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 get a result. That's what I'm trying to do -- 2 not even get credit specifically for myself, 3 trying to get the best bill out there. That's 4 what it's about for me. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 6 you. Senator Johnson. 7 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Madam 8 President, will Senator Robach continue to 9 yield for a question. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 11 you. Senator Robach, do you continue to 12 yield? 13 SENATOR ROBACH: I do if there's 14 a question that's germane to this bill, not 15 somebody else's bill or some other different 16 issue. 17 Because in all due respect to your 18 colleagues on that side of the aisle, and 19 mine, I'm happy to answer any question that 20 has to do with this bill. I'd love to. If 21 it's not, perhaps we could talk afterwards on 22 what credit you're getting or not getting. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 24 you. Senator Johnson, Senator Robach will 25 continue to yield for questions on this bill

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 that is before us at the present time. 2 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Sure. On 3 this bill. 4 What's the rush for this bill? Why 5 move it quickly today through your Labor 6 Committee and then immediately through Rules 7 and bring it on the calendar today, when on 8 April 3rd you were told -- or the Labor 9 Committee and your counsel, I'm sure, realized 10 that a note of petition was put on the 11 calendar to petition a bill -- actually, my 12 bill -- for tomorrow? So what's the rush 13 today to put your study bill on? 14 SENATOR ROBACH: You know why? 15 Because my mother taught me many years ago why 16 put off what you can today. 17 And that's why we're doing it, 18 because it's an important issue -- I don't 19 mean to make light of it -- for the men and 20 women of New York. And I've worked with a lot 21 of groups who have now come and been focused 22 on this issue, and we're really trying to be 23 responsive and, again, get a result, get 24 something we can get passed through both 25 houses that will address the issue in the best

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 way I know how. 2 Hopefully you and my colleagues 3 will agree with that and vote for it at the 4 end of the day. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 6 you. Senator Johnson. 7 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Yes, 8 Madam President. Will Senator Robach continue 9 to yield for a question. 10 SENATOR ROBACH: Sure. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 12 Senator yields. 13 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 14 you. Senator Robach, a question on the bill, 15 which I'm sure you want to have. 16 SENATOR ROBACH: I do. 17 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: You 18 referenced that the bill is to address, first 19 component -- I'm talking about the civil 20 penalty portion -- the civil penalties it 21 talks about, it raises. And you've amended it 22 from $500 to $1,000 as a penalty on an 23 employer. 24 And it goes, on line 4 of the bill: 25 "employees or shall differentiate in rate of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 pay, because of sex." And then it goes on "as 2 provided in this article, shall forfeit to the 3 people." 4 Why didn't you include language 5 such as national origin and/or race? Under 6 your legislation, would your legislation fine 7 a business that discriminates in terms of 8 wages because of somebody's status as a 9 minority or because of their national origin? 10 SENATOR ROBACH: Good question. 11 All's we did was taking the existing language 12 in New York and increase the penalty. Good 13 point. That doesn't mean at some time we 14 couldn't expand that further. 15 But what we did was focus on 16 existing law, increasing the penalties. Which 17 again I think is a good step in the right 18 direction. 19 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Madam 20 President, will Senator Robach continue to 21 yield for a question? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 23 you. Senator Robach, do you continue to 24 yield? 25 SENATOR ROBACH: I will.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 2 Senator yields. 3 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 4 you. I think that's why we shouldn't rush 5 this process. The legislation, of course, 6 that I have -- and we'll talk about it at 7 length tomorrow, or at least what I'm 8 permitted to talk about -- addresses these 9 issues. By rushing it through, we forgot a 10 particular component. 11 So maybe the better course of 12 action is to pull this out, pull back the bill 13 and start addressing these particular things 14 so something like this particular provision, 15 just talking about the civil penalty 16 provision, can be addressed appropriately. 17 But for my next questions I want to 18 refer now, I guess, to the underlying focus. 19 SENATOR ROBACH: I didn't get 20 that. What was the first question? 21 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: No, I'm 22 getting to the question. I'm referencing what 23 you said, Senator Robach. Thank you. 24 But I'm getting now to the point 25 of, I guess, the crux of your bill, which is

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 to commission, I guess, a study. Is that 2 correct? 3 SENATOR ROBACH: Department of 4 Labor to research and study, correct. The 5 last one wasn't done except in 1985. To not 6 only out people and find them, who they might 7 be, along with any other government entity, 8 but also to be able to quantify where we're at 9 and the scope of the issue, correct. 10 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Will the 11 Senator continue to yield for a question. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 13 Robach, will you continue to yield? 14 SENATOR ROBACH: I will. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 16 Senator does continue to yield. 17 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank you 18 so much. 19 Senator Robach, are you aware of 20 any of the results of that study? 21 SENATOR ROBACH: I am. I have it 22 right here. 23 There's actually two studies that 24 were kind of germane that covered the country, 25 one in New York and one done in California.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Which I guess I'll give you the good news and 2 bad news. Obviously, for an issue like this, 3 we'd like to have findings that have no 4 discrimination of any kind. But the good news 5 is compared to the other 50 states, I believe 6 we were number four in compliance with not 7 discriminating against people in the workplace 8 on the pay equity issue. Which overall, I 9 guess, was surprising to some people. 10 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Would the 11 Senator continue to yield for a question. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 13 you. Senator Robach, will you continue to 14 yield? 15 SENATOR ROBACH: I will. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 17 Senator yields. 18 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 19 you. 20 Are you aware, Senator Robach, 21 though, that notwithstanding those studies 22 there's nothing in the law that mandates 23 state, counties, cities, school districts to 24 actually provide for pay equity in line with 25 the results from that study?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Meaning a study came out, but it 2 has no teeth. If I choose not to abide by 3 that study, there's no consequence. 4 SENATOR ROBACH: Well, actually, 5 I think -- well, I would answer it in two 6 ways. 7 I think part of what you're saying 8 is inaccurate. Certainly when it comes to 9 county government, state government, anything 10 covered by civil service, we have pay equity 11 by title regardless of someone's origin, 12 sexual orientation, currently under the law in 13 those pay brackets. So it wouldn't apply to 14 government. 15 I think in the private sector, it's 16 been harder to quantify. And our study 17 absolutely incorporates the Department of 18 Labor to look at the entire scope as well as 19 work in collaboration with the AG or anybody 20 else we can, to make sure those fines are 21 given out to anyone who wouldn't be in 22 compliance. 23 Again, this goes a long way to 24 improving where we're at, where we're going 25 to, more -- regardless of any study, I guess

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 is the point I'm trying to make. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 3 you. Senator Johnson -- 4 SENATOR ROBACH: I'm aware of 5 those things, but again, this is more -- maybe 6 this will answer all your questions. 7 The reason for this bill, the 8 timing, everything else, is twofold. One, 9 need. One, I believe it is a very good piece 10 of legislation. And, three, it really is 11 relevant. I made a pledge to people in 12 groups -- 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 14 Skelos -- excuse me, Senator Robach. 15 Senator Skelos. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: Madam President, 17 if I could just rise for a moment, it's my 18 understanding that a staff individual is 19 filming the debate from the floor. 20 I would suggest to the entire 21 Senate that that's inappropriate to be 22 conducted from the Senate floor. One of 23 Senator Smith's staff people. So I would 24 suggest that stop and that we do not do that. 25 SENATOR ROBACH: Actually,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Skelos, let me fix my tie if they're 2 filming. I would like to look good. And then 3 let me finish. 4 This really is just about me trying 5 to challenge whatever system there is to get a 6 result, obviously working with everyone. But 7 I have been out speaking about this issue long 8 before you were in the Senate, long before a 9 lot of other things. Again, trying to live up 10 to that pledge, get something done. My policy 11 has always been when you have something good, 12 the quicker you can get it done the better. 13 I've been very proud of a very 14 results-oriented time here in the Senate in my 15 six years. That will not stop, regardless of 16 your opinion on the bill, whatever else you've 17 done. Or anybody else's, for that matter. So 18 don't take it personally. This is just to try 19 and get the bill done. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 21 you. Senator Johnson. 22 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Madam 23 President, will Senator Robach continue to 24 yield for a question. 25 SENATOR ROBACH: Sure.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 2 Robach continues to yield. 3 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: I take no 4 offense whatsoever. I think it's important, 5 it's healthy -- I think it's healthy for us to 6 debate. Because as you clearly know and as my 7 colleagues know, I am a strong supporter of 8 pay equity, given the fact that I am the 9 sponsor of the New York State law that would 10 require, statutorily require employers to 11 provide pay equity. 12 And your bill is what I'll just 13 call a study bill. Besides the civil 14 component of the penalties, it's a study bill. 15 SENATOR ROBACH: And criminal 16 penalties. 17 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: And 18 criminal penalties. I stand corrected. 19 Criminal penalties, of course. 20 I raise the issue about the 21 effectiveness of a study because in my study, 22 so to speak, I had the privilege of reading 23 from Lois Haignere, who actually did the 24 research behind the New York State 25 comparable-worth study that was done in 1985.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 And what she noted was while certainly, when 2 it came to -- there were certain good worth 3 adjustments when it came to particular titles, 4 the fact is, according to her -- and she is an 5 expert -- many counties, cities and school 6 districts did not make the adjustments based 7 on the report and have not done so since 1987. 8 And so my concern is is that, you 9 know, a report, while it sounds important, 10 doesn't bring relief now. 11 Now to my question, because I'm 12 required to pose a question. You cite, I 13 believe, in the memo in support two studies. 14 Is that correct? 15 SENATOR ROBACH: Mm-hmm. 16 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: I'm 17 sorry, I didn't hear the answer. 18 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes, I'm sorry. 19 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Madam 20 President, will Senator Robach continue to 21 yield for a question. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 23 you. Senator Robach, do you continue to 24 yield? 25 SENATOR ROBACH: I will.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 2 Robach continues to yield. 3 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 4 you. 5 Senator Robach, are you aware that 6 the United States Department of Labor, since 7 2003, the federal Department of Labor has 8 conducted -- let's see -- one, two, three 9 separate studies on pay equity, the most 10 recent being May 2007? 11 SENATOR ROBACH: I've had some 12 dialogue with staff on that. 13 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Will the 14 Senator continue to yield for a question. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Yes, 16 Senator Robach, do you continue to yield? 17 SENATOR ROBACH: I will. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 19 Senator continues to yield, Senator Johnson. 20 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 21 you. 22 And what was the result of that 23 dialogue? How did they convince you that 24 another study by our state was required when 25 Elaine Chao, Secretary of Labor, has authored

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 a very comprehensive, hundreds-of-pages study 2 already on this particular issue? 3 SENATOR ROBACH: I think that -- 4 you call it a study, I would call it a study 5 and review. 6 I think this would be specific for 7 New York State, which would not only quantify 8 data but also simultaneously maybe will fine 9 offenders, apply the increased fines that this 10 bill will do, that I assume you're going to 11 vote for, and really be a multitrack way again 12 to address the pay equity issue. 13 So I think you're underestimating 14 what I'm saying should be done by the 15 Department of Labor. Many people have made 16 different suggestions to me. Some people 17 thought it should be self-policed. I don't 18 think that would work. I think we need a 19 comprehensive study done by an outside agency, 20 a government agency, our Department of Labor, 21 in conjunction with the AG when there's an 22 issue, to really go to hopefully what is a 23 small percentage of people who may be 24 violating this as employers. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Johnson. 2 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 3 you. Will Senator Robach continue to yield 4 for a question? 5 SENATOR ROBACH: I will. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 7 you. The Senator continues to yield. 8 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 9 you, Senator Robach. I appreciate that. 10 So I'm assuming that in addition to 11 these two extensive studies done by the U.S. 12 Department of Labor, I would assume that the 13 Department of Labor will also then look at the 14 Department of Commerce's findings in 2004 that 15 detailed the earnings by occupation for men 16 and women. Or the study by the Institute of 17 Women's Policy Research, 2004, "Still a Man's 18 Labor Market: A Long-Term Earnings Gap." 19 Another study done in 2005 by the AAUP, which 20 stands for the American Association of 21 University Professors, entitled "Gains in 22 Learning, Gaps in Earning." A study in 2006 23 by the AAUP, "Faculty Gender Equity 24 Indicators." Institute for Women's Policy 25 Research, another outside institute. A

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 briefing paper, "The Best and Worst State 2 Economies for Women." 3 How about this one, the National 4 Committee for Pay Equity, which updates their 5 research every year, which sets forth the wage 6 gap in New York State. How about the AAUW, 7 which says "Behind the Pay Gap," a study done 8 in 2004. How about this -- oh, another U.S. 9 Department of Labor -- 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 11 Johnson, do you have a question? 12 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: I do. 13 But I want to get through my question. 14 And the U.S. Department of Labor, 15 "Highlights of Women's Earnings in 2006." 16 Senator Robach, my question is 17 study after study after study after study 18 after study -- why not introduce a bill right 19 now to make it statutorily prohibited to ban 20 the discrimination of pay between women and 21 men? Why another study bill? 22 SENATOR ROBACH: Well, I think 23 that my goal is obviously to outlaw, increase 24 the penalties. It's already on the books as 25 something that you cannot do, aren't supposed

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 to do. This increases the penalties for what 2 already exists and would have an outside 3 organization rather than an internal one, 4 specifically for New York, quantify that data, 5 turn that information over to the right 6 authorities to do all possible to stop the 7 practice. 8 Again, I think this is a very 9 appropriate way to approach it. The AFL-CIO 10 supports it. Many of the groups you've cited 11 in your studies, I've also met with at least 12 local chapters and they support it as well. 13 I think you want to underestimate 14 and call this a simple study to quantify the 15 data with no other follow steps. This is not 16 accurate. We're not reinventing the wheel 17 here, we're quantifying the data and 18 requesting that it be turned over to the right 19 people, coupled with the second part of the 20 bill on civil and criminal penalties for those 21 that violate it. 22 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Madam 23 President, will Senator Robach continue to 24 yield for a question. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 you. Senator Robach, do you continue to yield 2 to Senator Johnson? 3 SENATOR ROBACH: I will. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Yes, 5 the Senator continues to yield. 6 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 7 you, Senator Robach. 8 When did you meet with the Business 9 Council, the AFL-CIO and these other various 10 groups to discuss your piece of legislation? 11 SENATOR ROBACH: I meet with them 12 regularly on an ongoing basis. That has just 13 been a regular occurrence for me. 14 And oftentimes, rather than tell 15 them what I want, I listen to what they're 16 after and then try to put it into bill form 17 when needed. That's exactly what occurred 18 with this piece of legislation right here, 19 Senate Bill 7521. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 21 you. Senator Johnson. 22 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Madam 23 President, will Senator Robach continue to 24 yield for a question? 25 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 you. Senator Robach -- 2 SENATOR ROBACH: I'll take one 3 more question. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 5 Robach will continue to yield for one more 6 question. 7 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: I'd 8 better make it a big doozy, then. 9 Senator Robach, if all these 10 entities support your legislation -- the 11 Business Council, the New York State 12 AFL-CIO -- where are their -- I don't have in 13 front of me, and unless somebody can provide 14 it, where are the memorandums in support for 15 this piece of legislation? 16 Because usually when they do 17 support it -- and I trust you, Senator Robach, 18 you are -- 19 SENATOR ROBACH: You can take it 20 to the bank, Senator Johnson. 21 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: But I 22 don't see any memorandums in support, and I'd 23 like to see them. Because I'd like to have 24 them. 25 SENATOR ROBACH: Well, I can't

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 speak for everybody. I have one in front of 2 me. If you'd like me to, I'll be happy to 3 read it to you. 4 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: I'd love 5 to see it. 6 SENATOR ROBACH: Okay. Well, it 7 says -- 8 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: I'd love 9 to see it. 10 SENATOR ROBACH: I'm going to 11 read it to you. 12 "The New York State AFL-CIO, 13 representing over 2.5 million union men and 14 women, their families and retirees, has the 15 following position on a bill considered by the 16 State Senate Labor Committee, 7251, Robach: 17 Support. For further information, contact Ed 18 Donnelly." Feel free. 19 Again, this -- you know, and I 20 don't mean to sound -- this has a lot of great 21 things in it. I think you're trying to 22 cast -- which you're entitled to your 23 opinion -- aspersions on that this has been 24 done in a vacuum or a closet. That's just 25 inaccurate.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 And I think the record, my 2 dialogue, the dialogue with other colleagues 3 on your side and my side of the aisle on this 4 issue would indicate that. 5 And while we're all entitled to our 6 opinion, no one member has carte blanche or 7 the only one that can deal with an issue in 8 our house. That's one of the great things 9 about our democracy. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: 11 Senator -- 12 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Will 13 Senator Robach continue to yield for a 14 question? 15 SENATOR ROBACH: I've already 16 done it. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 18 Robach will not continue to yield for a 19 question. 20 Senator Johnson. 21 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: I will 22 speak on the bill. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 24 you. Senator Johnson, on the bill. 25 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank you

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 very much. 2 And I thank Senator Robach for, I 3 believe, a very hearty debate. And I don't 4 know if necessarily it was a debate, because 5 at least from my point of view, or from what I 6 believe, I support pay equity in this state. 7 There is no excuse why equal pay is 8 not being paid for equal work. And 40 years 9 after the Equal Pay Act, women are still being 10 paid 77 percent of what their male 11 counterparts make. And how do I know that? 12 Because the studies tell me. New York State 13 Department of Labor, outside agency, labor 14 experts, done under a Republican 15 administration, say it. U.S. State Department 16 of Commerce. Assorted outside groups all say 17 it. 18 This fact is just plain 19 unacceptable in New York and anywhere else. 20 We have to hold businesses accountable for 21 paying their employees fairly. We 22 unfortunately live in a world where 23 legislation requiring New York State to 24 provide equal pay is not only necessary but 25 vital to the many working families in New York

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 State, especially in families where women are 2 the head of the household. 3 Now, I have reviewed Senator 4 Robach's legislation. I have to say I'm 5 dismayed that it was clearly put in after a 6 rally by supporters of pay equity which was 7 held on April 2nd, after a notice of petition 8 was filed to petition the Senate to bring my 9 pay equity bill onto the floor and was 10 introduced on April 9th, and only today were 11 we told -- 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 13 Maziarz, why do you rise? 14 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, 15 Madam President. Excuse me, Senator. 16 Would Senator Johnson yield for a 17 question? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 19 you. Senator Johnson, do you yield for a 20 question? 21 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: I will 22 yield for my friend Senator Maziarz. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 24 Senator yields. 25 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you very

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 much, Senator. 2 My question is this. You know, 3 we've crossed a line here today. You know, 4 we've -- thanks to Senator Craig Johnson. You 5 know, there's a time when -- we're all elected 6 officials, and we all play politics. But here 7 on the Senate floor, you know, that doesn't 8 happen very often that we take -- 9 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Madam 10 President, what's the question? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: I 12 believe the Senator is framing his question. 13 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Ah. 14 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes, I'm 15 framing my question, just as you did, Senator, 16 in much more time than it's going to take me 17 to frame mine. 18 We've crossed a line here when we 19 take cheap political shots directly at another 20 member. And once those lines are crossed, 21 it's very hard, very hard, to ever go back. 22 Don't make the New York State 23 Senate the county legislature or the New York 24 State Assembly. It demeans all of us. 25 SENATOR DUANE: Madam President,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 I really -- 2 SENATOR MAZIARZ: My question is 3 this, Madam President -- 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 5 you. Senator Duane, why do you rise? 6 SENATOR MAZIARZ: My question is 7 this. I chaired the Senate -- 8 SENATOR DUANE: I just want to 9 make sure -- 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 11 Maziarz, just a moment, please. 12 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Madam 13 President, I'm sorry, who do you recognize? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: I'm 15 recognizing Senator Duane, who just stood up. 16 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Madam 17 President. It sounds as if the Senator -- 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Do you 19 have a question, Senator Duane? 20 SENATOR DUANE: -- is getting to 21 his question. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 23 you. I'm sure he is. 24 SENATOR MAZIARZ: My question is 25 this. I served, up until approximately

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 30 days ago, as chairman of the Senate Labor 2 Committee for every day Senator Craig Johnson 3 has been a member of this Senate. 4 My question to Senator Johnson is, 5 Senator Craig Johnson is, did you ever once 6 call me, as chairman of the Senate Labor 7 Committee, and tell me how important this bill 8 was to you? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 10 Johnson. 11 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 12 you. First I would say that -- and I thank 13 you for your question, Senator Maziarz. 14 SENATOR MAZIARZ: You're welcome. 15 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: But I 16 will say this. I actually led my county 17 legislature to actually pass a pay equity 18 piece of legislation which -- 19 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Would you 20 answer the question, Senator? I take it the 21 answer is no. 22 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: I'm 23 framing the question, Senator Maziarz. 24 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Your answer is 25 no.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Excuse 2 me. Senator Johnson, point of order. Would 3 you answer the question? Senator Johnson -- 4 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: You don't 5 get to say yes or no, Senator Maziarz. I get 6 to answer my question -- 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 8 Johnson, you're out of order. 9 Senator Duane -- 10 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Senator 11 Johnson, did you ever call me -- 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: 13 Gentlemen, please. 14 SENATOR DUANE: Point of order, 15 Madam President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Point 17 of order. Senator Duane. 18 SENATOR DUANE: Madam President, 19 in the Senator's question to Senator Johnson, 20 the issue of a county legislative process was 21 raised. So obviously the response would 22 necessitate a response including a reference 23 to the county legislature. If it is germane 24 for one Senator, it is germane for another 25 Senator.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Thank you, Madam President. I hope 2 that you'll let the Senator continue answering 3 the question. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 5 you, Senator. 6 Senator Johnson, to respond to 7 Senator Maziarz's question. 8 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 9 you. 10 Which included my, I believe, 11 excellent seven years in the Nassau County 12 legislature. The fact is, as a member of the 13 county legislature -- and for history of my 14 colleagues who are here, I actually led the 15 effort to pass pay equity legislation in the 16 Niagara County legislature. So I think that's 17 very important. 18 But to answer Senator Maziarz's 19 question, which, by the way, I have -- and I 20 understand that the rules don't require a 21 yes-or-no-type answer, it requires an answer. 22 I filled out the request form with the 23 committee, which it's my understanding is the 24 process. 25 So, Senator Maziarz, to answer you

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 directly, did I pick up the phone and call 2 you? I'm sorry, but I did not. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 4 you. 5 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Senator, the 6 next question is, did you ever ask to meet 7 with me to talk about this very important 8 topic to you? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Excuse 10 me. Please address your questions through the 11 chair. 12 Senator Maziarz. 13 SENATOR MAZIARZ: I was 14 addressing you, Madam President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 16 you. 17 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Would Senator 18 Johnson yield for another question. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 20 Johnson, do you yield for a question? 21 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: No, I 22 will not. I will continue to explain my -- 23 continue to talk on the bill. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 25 you. The Senator refuses to yield to the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 question. 2 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 3 you. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 5 Johnson, to continue to explain his vote. 6 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank you 7 very much. And I apologize for -- 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Excuse 9 me. Senator Johnson, on the bill. 10 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: I'm on 11 the bill. Thank you very much. 12 Before that short interruption, 13 what I was going to talk about was the fact 14 that I find it incredibly ironic that a bill 15 introduced on April 9th is put quickly before 16 this Senate body -- which, by the way, in 17 questioning pointed out there are some flaws 18 to it. Doesn't make it a bad bill, ladies and 19 gentlemen, members, my colleagues. It just 20 points out the rushed nature of this process. 21 But what's important here is how we 22 address this issue. I think the best way to 23 do it is to finally take that stand and to 24 pass legislation that will make it an unlawful 25 employment practice for an employer to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 discriminate between employees on the basis of 2 sex, race, and national origin by paying 3 different wages. 4 Right now my colleague believes 5 that his procedure of having another study 6 done is better. I don't have a problem doing 7 a study. Why not? Because we know what the 8 result will be. It will be the results that 9 everyone else has been saying. 10 So, I tell my colleagues, vote for 11 a study bill. It's due May of 2009. I'll 12 tell you, and I'll tell Senator Robach 13 privately, I know what the result is going to 14 be. The big question is going to be is when 15 we get that result. And if we have not passed 16 pay equity legislation by then, I hope that if 17 Senator Robach and his colleagues are in the 18 majority that they'll pass pay equity 19 legislation then. But their first chance to 20 do so will be tomorrow. 21 So my colleagues, members of the 22 Democratic conference, I urge you to support 23 this bill. I urge you to support it because 24 it will tell you what we already know, and 25 maybe that isn't a bad thing. But the fact

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 is, is that we need pay equity. We need pay 2 equity now. 3 Thank you, Madam President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 5 you, Senator Johnson. 6 Is there any other Senator wishing 7 to be heard? 8 Thank you. Senator Krueger. 9 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 10 Madam President. Will Senator Maziarz rise 11 for a question? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 13 you. Senator Maziarz, will you respond to a 14 question? 15 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 17 you. The Senator responds. 18 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank 19 you -- 20 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Senator, unlike 21 some of my colleagues, I would be more than 22 happy to respond to a question from you. 23 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you 24 so much. Well, you reference -- 25 SENATOR MAZIARZ: I think it

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 would be insulting not to, by the way. 2 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 3 You referenced in your statement 4 earlier that up until about 30 days ago you 5 were the chair of the Labor Committee. 6 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes. 7 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: And 8 certainly the issue of inequity in pay between 9 men and women is not in debate in this 10 country. The statistics are clear, as my 11 colleague Senator Craig Johnson just laid out. 12 When you were the chair of the 13 Labor Committee, did you ever move any pay 14 equity bills through committee for discussion 15 or debate or hearing? 16 SENATOR MAZIARZ: No. Actually 17 because the sponsor, Senator Johnson, never 18 contacted me once about it. Never attended, 19 never came to one Labor Committee meeting 20 about it, Senator Krueger. Never sent me a 21 message, never talked to me on the floor of 22 this house, never talked to me -- you know, we 23 all tend to hang around here by the telephones 24 in the lounge. Never once did Senator Craig 25 Johnson mention this issue to me.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Madam 2 President -- 3 SENATOR MAZIARZ: In the year and 4 a half that he's been here, almost. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 6 you. Senator Krueger. 7 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Will 8 Senator Maziarz continue to yield. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 10 you. Senator Maziarz, do you continue to 11 yield? 12 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 14 you. The Senator yields. 15 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 16 Senator Maziarz, the bill that Senator Johnson 17 has been referencing is the same bill that the 18 Assembly passed in the '02 session, the '04 19 session, the '06 session. You were the chair 20 of the Labor Committee during those years -- 21 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yes. 22 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: -- you 23 were -- 24 SENATOR MAZIARZ: And now I'm 25 even more shocked that Senator Craig Johnson

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 didn't put this out in front of me, didn't 2 write me memos -- 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 4 you -- 5 SENATOR MAZIARZ: -- didn't talk 6 to a Labor Committee meeting. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 8 you. Just a moment, please. 9 Senator Krueger. 10 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 11 Madam President. If the sponsor would 12 continue to yield. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 14 you. Senator Maziarz, do you continue to 15 yield? 16 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Excuse me. 17 Senator Maziarz. 18 SENATOR MAZIARZ: I'm not the 19 sponsor, but -- 20 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I clarify. 21 Would Senator Maziarz continue to yield. 22 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 24 you. Do you continue to yield? 25 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Again, Madam

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 President, my answer is, unlike some of my 2 colleagues, I will continue to yield, yes. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 4 you. The Senator continues to yield. 5 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 6 In fact, Senator Johnson wasn't 7 here during those years. He's a relatively 8 new Senator. 9 But when you were the chair of the 10 Labor Committee, the issue of pay equity or 11 the inequity of pay between men and women 12 never was an issue before your committee? It 13 was not something you were aware of or 14 following through with the Assembly Committee 15 on Labor on? 16 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Well, let me 17 start off by saying, you know, based on your 18 first comment there, I said in my comments 19 that every day Senator Craig Johnson was a 20 member of this body, I was chairman of the 21 Senate Labor Committee. And he never 22 contacted me once about it. 23 You made the reference that Senator 24 Johnson has only been here for a little over a 25 year. And that's exactly what I said in my

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 comments; he's been here over a year. If this 2 was such a important issue to him he's 3 critical of Senator Robach for it, he never 4 did anything about it. 5 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank 6 you -- 7 SENATOR MAZIARZ: I never heard 8 from him, Senator, on how important this issue 9 was. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 11 you, Senator -- 12 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Never came to 13 one meeting. Never called me. Never saw me 14 out here, never wrote me a memo. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 16 Maziarz, thank you. 17 Senator Krueger. 18 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 19 Madam President. Well, thank you, Senator 20 Maziarz. 21 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you. 22 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I have no 23 more questions for you. 24 SENATOR DUANE: Madam President. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Duane. 2 SENATOR DUANE: Would Senator 3 Krueger yield for a question from me? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 5 you. Senator Krueger, do you yield for a 6 question from Senator Duane? 7 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Certainly, 8 Madam President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 10 you. The Senator yields. 11 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Madam 12 President. 13 I'm assuming that Senator Krueger 14 actually, on committees of which she is a 15 member -- unlike committees that she may not 16 be a member -- but if she is a member of such 17 committees, when -- I'm wondering if the 18 Senator, when she has asked for action on her 19 bills from those committee chairs that are in 20 the Majority, how has that gone for you? 21 (Laughter.) 22 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: 23 Unfortunately, I have not been very successful 24 at getting my bills brought to agenda in the 25 various committees that I sit on.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DUANE: I'm sure that 2 will change now. 3 Thank you, Madam President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 5 you, Senator Duane. 6 Senator Krueger. 7 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 8 Madam President. 9 I appreciated Senator Maziarz 10 answering my questions. 11 I do think I want to highlight that 12 pay inequity is a huge issue for the people of 13 the State of New York. It is a huge issue for 14 the women of the state of New York and 15 minorities of the State of New York. And so I 16 am in fact disappointed that in all the years 17 he was the chair of the Labor Committee, 18 apparently this never came to the attention of 19 the committee. 20 But I would like to ask the sponsor 21 if he would please yield, if Senator Robach 22 would yield for a question. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 24 you. Senator Robach, would you yield for a 25 question from Senator Krueger?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR ROBACH: I will not only 2 yield but say you must be delighted that we're 3 doing something about it now. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 5 you. Senator Krueger, the Senator yields. 6 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 7 Well, yes, in reference it is true 8 the new Labor Committee chair is at least 9 looking at the issue, unlike the previous 10 Labor chair, who did not look at the issue for 11 all those years. 12 SENATOR ROBACH: I've been saying 13 that for years, you know. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Please 15 speak through the chair. 16 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: But in 17 fact, your bill is a study bill. And I share 18 my colleague's concern that the studies have 19 been done. 20 But I want to talk about the 21 penalties. Can you tell me how many people in 22 the State of New York actually have been found 23 guilty in the civil penalties which you're 24 increasing from $500 to $1,000? 25 SENATOR ROBACH: I do not know

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 that off the top of my head. If it's one, 2 it's too many. We ought to increase the 3 penalty to make sure we're doing all we can to 4 dissuade them from that bad activity. 5 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Madam 6 President, if the sponsor would continue to 7 yield. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 9 you. Senator Robach, do you continue to 10 yield? 11 SENATOR ROBACH: I will. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 13 you. The Senator continues to yield. 14 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 15 While I suspect I know the answer, 16 for consistency, do you know how many people 17 were found guilty under the criminal penalties 18 section of your act, which would also increase 19 the penalties? And, just to continue, how 20 many people have been found guilty of a felony 21 under the existing criminal laws that you are 22 referencing increasing? 23 SENATOR ROBACH: I don't. But I 24 hope through the study, the review of an 25 outside agency -- rather than internal review,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 which has been suggested in other pieces of 2 legislation -- that we'd be more likely to 3 catch anybody through that. And also have the 4 word go out that not only the penalty would 5 more fit the crime, but less people and 6 employers would be willing to do that negative 7 practice. 8 So I didn't really focus on what 9 the number was. I tried to focus on how bad I 10 thought it was and how much we should try to 11 do something, both in terms of the unfairness 12 as well as the heightened sense of a lot of 13 groups on trying to refocus on this issue. 14 Totally in response to that, Senator Krueger. 15 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 16 Madam President -- 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 18 you. Senator Krueger. 19 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: On the 20 bill, Madam President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 22 you. Thank you -- 23 SENATOR ROBACH: It's really a 24 prosecutor's job to enforce those penalties. 25 I think what the problem is, and I think it's

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 relevant to your answer, we have to do a 2 better job regardless of what the number or 3 percentage of people who are violating it is, 4 to get them to a place where they can't do it 5 anymore. 6 That's the intent of this 7 legislation, and I think it does it strongly. 8 I do think it's more than a study. I think 9 it's really a review by the people that can 10 then turn that information over to the right 11 authorities to stop it, rather than do a 12 review internally by businesses, or 13 self-reviewed, where the information goes and 14 sits somewhere and, as people have pointed 15 out, maybe has not been acted on. 16 Again, also, this would be specific 17 to New York State, not a national study. 18 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 20 you. 21 Senator Krueger, on the bill. 22 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 23 Madam President. 24 I think we know the answers. I am 25 as frustrated as my colleague, Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Johnson, that we are not debating a bill that 2 would actually outlaw discrimination in 3 employment and wages. 4 According to the AFL-CIO, as a 5 woman, statistically -- now, to be fair, as a 6 woman in the New York State Legislature, it's 7 one of the only jobs where you are guaranteed 8 equal pay. Men legislators and women 9 legislators do not get paid differently. 10 But in most situations in the State 11 of New York and in this country, there is not 12 that protection against discrimination. And 13 according to the AFL-CIO, at the rate that pay 14 inequity is being addressed in this country, 15 it will take women to the year 2050 to reach 16 pay equity. And I have to say that is way too 17 long a period of time. 18 And the data is in. And one 19 colleague pulled a number of reports out. I 20 went on Google Scholars -- it's a subsection 21 on the Internet for academic research -- and I 22 could find 257 reports on pay inequity for 23 women. And Congress has held hearings, and 24 organizations and agencies throughout the 25 country have held hearings.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 And in fact, I carry a bill that 2 would be a constitutional amendment requiring 3 that there not be discrimination in pay 4 between men and women. 5 And in fact, I would argue that 6 this is too little, too late. It's not that 7 it's wrong to study the issue. It's wrong to 8 delay taking action on the issue, saying 9 you're waiting for another report when the 10 data is so clear. And it harms women, and it 11 harms minorities, and it harms their families. 12 And it has now been decades, decades that 13 women are not closing the gap, that minorities 14 are not closing the gap. 15 And we are all paying a price for 16 it, because in fact we are seeing families in 17 poverty, we are seeing children growing up in 18 poverty because there is an inequitable pay 19 structure throughout our economy. 20 So I will vote for Senator Robach's 21 bill. But I will with a wink and a nod that 22 this is not adequate, and that we do have 23 answers, and that we have better legislation 24 that I wish had moved through this house, as 25 it has moved through the Assembly every

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 session for the last four sessions. 2 So it's not the bill I would like 3 to be voting on, but it is a bill that I can 4 find no argument to vote no on. But it is not 5 enough, and we should not be satisfied. 6 Thank you, Madam President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 8 you, Senator Krueger. 9 Senator Connor. 10 SENATOR CONNOR: Thank you, Madam 11 President. 12 I'm supporting this bill, and I 13 certainly agree with the issue Senator Craig 14 Johnson raised about we should get right down 15 to it and outlaw discrimination. 16 I rise really to correct something 17 that my esteemed colleague Senator Liz Krueger 18 said. The New York State Senate is not, is 19 not the only place in New York State where 20 there's pay equity. There isn't equity here. 21 There is not equity in this Legislature. If 22 you read the State Constitution, it says that 23 all members of the Legislature shall receive a 24 like annual compensation. The cases are 25 legion that say compensation includes pension.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 And indeed, speaking for the whole 2 Legislature, if I'm not correct, since Betty 3 Connelly left the Assembly and Arthur Eve left 4 the Assembly there remain in this Legislature 5 a handful of white males that are in ADA, have 6 a much, much better pension plan than any 7 woman serving in either house of the 8 Legislature, than any African-American serving 9 in either house of the Legislature, more than 10 any Latino or Latina serving in the 11 Legislature. There is not equity in 12 compensation in the Legislature. 13 And by the way, a lot of younger 14 white males also are doing the same job and 15 aren't getting pay equity with the people who 16 are in ADA. 17 My colleagues, someday we ought to 18 address this. Thank you. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 20 you. 21 Senator Stavisky. 22 SENATOR STAVISKY: Would Senator 23 Maziarz -- 24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: I'm 25 sorry, Senator Maziarz is not in the chamber

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 right now. 2 SENATOR STAVISKY: Would Senator 3 Robach perhaps -- 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Yes. 5 Senator Robach, would you yield for a 6 question, please? 7 SENATOR ROBACH: Of course. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 9 Senator yields. 10 SENATOR STAVISKY: Senator 11 Maziarz spent quite a bit of time as chair of 12 the Labor Committee. And during that time -- 13 and in fact, I know you're a new chair of the 14 Labor Committee -- did that pay equity or did 15 a pay equity bill ever pass the Assembly? 16 SENATOR ROBACH: I heard today 17 that it had. 18 SENATOR STAVISKY: And if the 19 Senator would continue to yield. 20 SENATOR ROBACH: I will. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 22 you. The Senator continues to yield. 23 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you. 24 When a bill passes the Assembly, it 25 automatically comes -- it is referenced to a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senate committee, the Senate Committee on 2 Labor. Is that correct? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Is that 4 a question, Senator? 5 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes, it is. 6 Is that correct? 7 SENATOR ROBACH: I'm taking your 8 word for it. I believe so, yes. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 10 Senator says he believes so. 11 SENATOR STAVISKY: And what 12 happened when the bills passed the Assembly 13 and came to the Labor Committee over the 14 years? What happened to those bills? They 15 were held; is that correct, Senator? 16 SENATOR ROBACH: I'm assuming so. 17 Again, I was not the chairman of that 18 committee when any of those bills were ever 19 sent here. 20 SENATOR STAVISKY: So in other 21 words -- on the bill, Madam President. 22 Thank you, Senator. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 24 you. 25 SENATOR STAVISKY: These bills

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 did pass the Assembly, they were sent to the 2 Senate Labor Committee, and they were held. 3 They were never reported out of committee. 4 This is an automatic process, I understand, 5 where they are referred to the committee in 6 the other house. 7 So there was an opportunity to vote 8 on pay equity. It never was put on the agenda 9 to be voted upon by the entire Labor Committee 10 and then the entire Senate. 11 Thank you. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 13 you, Senator. 14 Senator Diaz. 15 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, Madam 16 President. Madam President, would the sponsor 17 yield for a question or two? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 19 you. 20 Senator Robach, will you yield for 21 a question? 22 SENATOR ROBACH: I will. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 24 Senator yields. 25 SENATOR DIAZ: Regarding the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 discussion that we are having here today, it 2 is a good one. It is a good one. But I have 3 some things that are coming to my mind. 4 Senator Robach, when we talk about 5 pay inequities, we always talk about men 6 versus women. Men get better pay, the women 7 are always getting less pay. And that is 8 true, that's something that we all know. 9 However, I believe there are some other pay 10 inequities, and I would like to know if you 11 are including these categories in your study. 12 Besides men versus women, there are 13 also inequities in salary when it comes to 14 whites versus minorities. There are 15 occasional studies that a person doing the 16 same work, a minority or black or Hispanic, 17 gets less pay than a white person doing it. 18 There are also other inequities. 19 English speaker versus non-English speaker 20 doing the same work, doing the same job, doing 21 the same thing. But because one speaks 22 English better than the other, that one gets 23 better pay. 24 And the last one that I would like 25 you to tell me if you are including those

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 categories in your study is undocumented. You 2 know, undocumented people are being abused. 3 People hire them, they work, they do the same 4 kind of work as other people. And there are 5 employers there that don't pay them, that 6 abuse them and don't pay them -- not only they 7 don't pay equal, sometimes they don't even get 8 paid at all. 9 So in your study that you are 10 requesting, are you including these categories 11 too, or just men versus women? 12 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes, Senator 13 Diaz. I don't like to use just the word 14 "study." I think it will be a study and 15 somewhat of a comprehensive review. And it 16 not only affect men and woman, but it will 17 also affect minorities, something that was 18 kind of put out there that was inaccurate by 19 one of the previous speakers. 20 On line 10 and 11 of the bill, it 21 says "also will study and look at violations 22 relating to the wage differential between men 23 and women, between minorities and 24 nonminorities in the same job, in jobs that 25 are dissimilar but that required equivalent

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 composites of skill, welfare, responsibility," 2 et cetera. So it does address it more 3 comprehensively than just the men and women 4 issue. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 6 you. Senator Diaz. 7 SENATOR DIAZ: Madam President, 8 would the sponsor yield for -- 9 SENATOR ROBACH: Which I believe 10 is consistent -- 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Excuse 12 me. Senator Robach, will you continue to 13 yield for Senator Diaz? 14 SENATOR ROBACH: I will. Can I 15 just finish, just a clarification. 16 Which I think is consistent with 17 existing law, which is one of the misnomers 18 that's also been out there. There is already 19 some law on the books as well as general laws 20 where you cannot discriminate in hiring 21 practices to begin with. 22 What this bill, again, goes after 23 for everyone's benefit is to try to find out 24 where these offenders are and then make sure 25 we go after them aggressively, thoroughly, not

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 only with increased penalties and fines, to 2 send out the message, but really give the 3 proper authority -- which I believe should be 4 government, not only because they have the 5 ability but the obligation to enforce it in a 6 strong way. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 8 you. Senator Diaz. 9 SENATOR DIAZ: Madam President, 10 through you, would the sponsor yield for 11 another question? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 13 you. Senator Robach, will you continue to 14 yield for a question? 15 SENATOR ROBACH: Absolutely. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 17 you. 18 He yields. 19 SENATOR DIAZ: We all know that 20 anyone that hires an undocumented person, 21 there's a fine for that. Now, what I'm 22 talking about -- because I don't hear you 23 saying that's included -- the person that 24 don't pay the wages when they hire an 25 undocumented person, is that undocumented

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 inequity, the inequity in pay to undocumented 2 people, is that included in the -- 3 SENATOR ROBACH: Expanding on the 4 current law, staying consistent, it says 5 exactly what I read to you. I don't think it 6 makes any differential. I believe it would be 7 if there was a violation, then for them to 8 review that. 9 I don't know -- I'm not an 10 attorney, I have never done that -- I don't 11 know what the application would be for an 12 undocumented alien working here or person in 13 here. 14 I don't know. But just for 15 reference, I think that would be up for 16 interpretation, because it clearly does say, 17 you know, for any reason discriminating inside 18 the pay for equal skill set. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 20 you. Senator Diaz. 21 SENATOR DIAZ: Last question. 22 Madam President, through you, would the 23 sponsor yield for another question? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Senator 25 Robach, will you yield for another question?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR ROBACH: I will. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Yes, he 3 yields. 4 SENATOR DIAZ: Reading part of 5 the bill, it says "any employer who fails to 6 pay the wages of his employees." 7 Do you consider an undocumented 8 worker an employee? 9 SENATOR ROBACH: I would say 10 this. The law is pretty clear on what it 11 does. I think the issue, quite frankly, of 12 undocumented illegal aliens is really a 13 subject for our federal colleagues that need 14 to define that and do that. I think we're 15 stretching here to try and attach this issue 16 to this bill, in all honesty. 17 SENATOR DIAZ: I was supposed to 18 ask a last question. But, Madam President, 19 through you, I don't think that the Senator 20 has answered my question. 21 SENATOR ROBACH: So, Senator 22 Diaz, perhaps this will -- 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 24 you, Senator -- 25 SENATOR ROBACH: Maybe this is a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 better answer for you. I've been told by 2 counsel that the Department of Labor simply 3 looks at the issue, not the status of the 4 person, if there is a complaint found and 5 lodged. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 7 you. 8 SENATOR DIAZ: On the bill, Madam 9 President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Yes, 11 Senator Diaz, on the bill. 12 SENATOR DIAZ: We all know about 13 the inequities in payment through history. I 14 understand that studies have been made. But 15 we don't have to do too much studies to know 16 that this thing is happening. 17 I commend Senator Robach for trying 18 to do something about it. I commend Senator 19 Craig Johnson for also trying to solve the 20 problem. Because this is a problem that we 21 are facing in our society. Men are always 22 getting paid more than, better than women, and 23 women being discriminated in that essence. 24 However, there is also, there is 25 also the inequities, anybody that's trying to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 do something about it, that we're trying to 2 do, Senator Craig Johnson and Senator Robach, 3 anybody that is trying to do something about 4 it, I will say that we have to consider, we 5 have to consider the inequities in payment, 6 Senator Johnson, on blacks against whites, on 7 English speakers against non-English speakers, 8 on legal workers versus undocumented workers. 9 Inequity is all over. And we have 10 to do away with this. We have to do something 11 about it. I congratulate you again. I'm 12 supporting this bill. I'm voting for this 13 bill. And I will support Senator Craig 14 Johnson's bill if it come to the floor. And I 15 support anyone that brings a bill dealing with 16 this situation. 17 I hope that the future bill deals 18 with undocumented, black versus white, English 19 speaker versus non-English speaker, and people 20 with nice hair against kinky hair. 21 (Laughter.) 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 23 you. 24 Senator Schneiderman. 25 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Madam President. I also rise in support of 2 this bill. If the sponsor would yield for a 3 few questions. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 5 you. Senator Robach, do you yield? 6 SENATOR ROBACH: I will. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 8 you. The Senator yields. 9 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you. 10 It appears to me that we are in the 11 fortunate position today of both sides of the 12 aisle attempting to remedy the same problem. 13 And I think it's important for us to bear that 14 in mind. I don't know -- sometimes we get 15 excited here. I think someone tore up Senator 16 Maziarz's Eddie Eagle comics earlier today, 17 put him off his feed. 18 But it is clear that we are all 19 trying to address the same issue, and I think 20 it's important to bear that in mind. 21 And I gather that Senator Johnson's 22 bill, the New York State Fair Pay Act, which 23 he has discussed and has come up here, and 24 Senator Robach's bill, Senate 7521, are two 25 different approaches to the same set of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 issues. 2 Senator Robach, you stated in 3 response to this back-and-forth, and sometimes 4 you guys were talking a little bit in 5 shorthand, that you felt this was the best way 6 to address the issue. What issue are you 7 referring to, the equal pay for equal work 8 issue? 9 SENATOR ROBACH: Pay equity, 10 correct. 11 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Pay 12 equity. And then you stated that we just took 13 the existing language of the Labor Law and 14 made the modifications as to the numbers of 15 the fine. 16 SENATOR ROBACH: Correct. 17 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Okay. And 18 then the other provision provides for the 19 study. 20 SENATOR ROBACH: And review, 21 correct. 22 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Study and 23 review. 24 Senator Johnson's bill actually 25 changes the language in the Labor Law and adds

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 additional provisions. It is an interesting 2 bill. I think it seems like a very good bill. 3 I commend it to you in your capacity as Labor 4 chair. 5 It adds, throughout the 6 legislation, where the current Labor Law just 7 refers to sex, the phrase "sex, race or 8 national origin." Is that correct? 9 SENATOR ROBACH: I'll take your 10 word for it. 11 And existing law, as I read before 12 to Senator Diaz, I think says the same thing 13 in a little bit different semantics, between 14 men and women, minorities, nonminorities in 15 the same job classification. I think that 16 broaches the same subject. 17 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I'm sorry, 18 which section of the law were you just reading 19 from? 20 SENATOR ROBACH: I believe, let 21 me see, it is on page -- do you have the bill? 22 Page 2. 23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Of which 24 bill? 25 SENATOR ROBACH: 7521, line 11 --

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 well, 10, 11 and 12. 2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: That is 3 the provision defining the scope of the study, 4 is that not correct? 5 SENATOR ROBACH: Not on page -- 6 not on the front page, 10, 11. 7 If you go to page 2, and on 10, 11 8 and 12. Actually, if you'll give this back to 9 me, I'll hand this right -- 10 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: No, no, 11 I've got a copy of it. 12 That actually is the provision that 13 states that it authorizes the Senate and 14 Assembly and everyone else to do a report on 15 or before May 1st on issues relating to the 16 wage differential between men and women and 17 between minorities and nonminorities. But 18 that has to do with the scope of the report. 19 SENATOR ROBACH: Correct. Let 20 me -- that is what they will study, and that's 21 the language that we used consistent with 22 existing law. Correct. 23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Okay, 24 thank you. So other than changing the amount 25 of the fines for the misdemeanor and felony

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 already provided for in law, your bill doesn't 2 change any of the language of the existing 3 law. 4 Do you have any thoughts or ideas 5 that you could share with us as to how the 6 existing language of the Labor Law could be 7 improved in our efforts to achieved pay 8 equity? 9 SENATOR ROBACH: I -- you know, 10 again, today is an interesting day. We got 11 criticized for acting quickly. 12 I am always open to anything that I 13 think will improve it. This is an attempt, 14 again, to try and address an issue that we've 15 talked about for a while. Groups have come, 16 both to me and other members of this body, 17 wanting a specific action, a number of 18 specific actions. This is my attempt to 19 address it in a way I do sincerely feel is 20 very good. 21 You have to -- you can call it just 22 a study, but I think unless you have the right 23 people studying it and reviewing it, it's 24 never going to get turned over or get acted 25 upon. That clearly is my attempt, whether

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 it's gender inequity, whether it's minority 2 inequity, whatever they may be -- for the 3 women in my family, for the women in yours, 4 that's what we want to get to. 5 I really do believe this will do 6 that, in some regards more expeditiously than 7 some of the other ideas I've heard on the 8 issue, which I'm sure all have some validity. 9 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 10 Madam President. On the bill. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 12 you. Senator Schneiderman, on the bill. 13 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: This has 14 been an interesting discussion. I am pleased 15 that after years of the Assembly passing 16 legislation to require pay equity between men 17 and women, the Senate is finally seeking to do 18 something on the issue. 19 But I must say I share the concern 20 of some of my colleagues that Senator Johnson 21 has taken a great deal of effort to look at 22 all the existing studies and all the data 23 that's available and craft a bill that goes 24 significantly beyond the bill before us today. 25 And it was only after there was a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 rally with supporters of his bill, and after 2 there was some press blowback because Senator 3 Robach spoke at the rally but then said he was 4 not going to support the New York State Fair 5 Pay Act sponsored by Senator Johnson, that 6 this bill flew out of the back room, flew into 7 the Labor Committee and flew into Rules. 8 I think the people of the State of 9 New York may not understand, gentlemen, that 10 when a Senator fills out the forms and files a 11 bill so that it's all open to public 12 disclosure, that that's not the right 13 procedure. They may not understand this 14 business about phone calls and backroom 15 conversation. 16 If the Senator said to the chairman 17 of the committee or the bill was referred to 18 the chairman of the committee, a piece of 19 legislation, I don't think it's really -- I 20 think it demeans this institution to suggest 21 that that's not the proper way to present the 22 bill. So I commend Senator Johnson for 23 following those procedures. 24 The one substantive difference 25 between Senator Johnson's bill and the bill

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 before us today that I find very disturbing -- 2 and, Senator Diaz, you spoke to this -- is 3 that throughout Senator Johnson's bill it says 4 we are here to prevent and it orders the state 5 to prevent discrimination based on sex, race, 6 or national origin. Over and over again: 7 "sex, race or national origin." 8 Now, other than providing for a 9 study to find out whether or not there are 10 these problems in wage differentials between 11 men and women and between minorities and 12 nonminorities in the same job -- I'm not sure 13 what "minorities and nonminorities" mean. It 14 doesn't use the language of the federal law, 15 which Senator Johnson does, "sex, race or 16 national origin." 17 This law just refers to the 18 existing statute, which only covers unequal 19 pay because of sex. Now, unequal pay because 20 of sex is a very serious problem, but the 21 existing law already deals with it. The only 22 change to existing law here is a slight 23 modification in fines. 24 Why on earth in 2008 do we need to 25 wait for a study before we put into the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 New York State Labor Law a provision that it 2 is wrong to pay people differently based on 3 sex, race or national origin? That's what 4 Senator Johnson's bill does. That's what 5 Senator Robach's bill does not do. 6 And when I asked do you have any 7 thoughts as to how we might change the 8 language of the Labor Law to improve it, the 9 Senator said he thinks this is the best 10 approach. Well, I don't think the best 11 approach is to wait for a study before we make 12 the law as tough as possible on people who 13 would pay unequal wages based on race. 14 And I think that it is a shame that 15 a very few days after we had all sorts of fine 16 words spoken and a noble tribute to Reverend 17 Martin Luther King, that we are today passing 18 a bill that does not add to the New York State 19 Labor Law a provision to prevent unequal pay 20 because of race or national origin. 21 I'm going to support this law just 22 because it is some effort. The fines are 23 slightly greater. But I think that Senator 24 Johnson's bill, which will come here tomorrow, 25 as everyone knows, on a motion to petition --

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 and which this is apparently an effort to 2 preempt -- proposes a much more serious 3 approach to this problem. 4 I will be voting for this bill, 5 Madam President, but I'll also be voting for 6 Senator Johnson's petition tomorrow. And 7 anyone who is sincere about trying to do 8 something about the issue of inequity in pay 9 in this state should vote for that petition as 10 well. 11 Thank you, Madam President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 13 you. 14 Senator Stewart-Cousins. 15 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: Thank 16 you, Madam President. 17 Could the sponsor please yield for 18 a question? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 20 you. Senator Robach, will you yield for a 21 question? 22 SENATOR ROBACH: I will. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 24 Senator yields. 25 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: Thank

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 you. 2 I must say that I certainly am 3 going to support this. I'm very, very excited 4 that there's so much discussion about the 5 inequity of pay. And certainly it seems that 6 we are motivated. 7 But I was just taking a look at the 8 legislation, I was just inquiring on the 9 second page, on line 21, it seems that this 10 would provide legislative and policy 11 recommendations regarding wage differential, 12 including sanctions and penalties. 13 So I'm just wondering whether the 14 front, where we're changing the penalties, is 15 not somehow preempting the study that we're 16 requiring. Why are you, without benefit of 17 the study, deciding to change the penalties? 18 SENATOR ROBACH: Well, I think 19 that's the misnomer. People keep saying that 20 it's not -- there is already existing statute 21 that penalizes people for doing exactly what 22 we're talking about. There's a breadth and 23 scope of law that already addresses 24 discrimination, and rightfully so. 25 I'm going to say it again, and what

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 this bill really does -- not what others are 2 trying to say it does or doesn't do for 3 that -- this bill quantifies and increases the 4 penalty, doubles, for civil penalties, the 5 fine for those that already violate the law, 6 fivefold for those that do it; in a criminal 7 way, twentyfold, up to $20,000 in fines in one 8 part of the law. 9 And that is for gender inequity, 10 that is for minority inequity or any of those 11 things we've spoken of. There's already a set 12 of penalties in here for that. So this is 13 going to expand on those. 14 Simultaneously -- and this is where 15 our bills are a little bit different, even 16 though I don't think it's really germane to 17 today. The other approach that some people 18 have is to put a self-policing or reporting 19 mechanism in place which would still need 20 action from government. My approach is to 21 have the government do it right up front, and 22 not only study but look for the violations, 23 turn them over and address them quickly. 24 And when they do, I want those 25 penalties in place. And I also want to send a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 clear message that we're going to be a little 2 bit more serious about the enforcement of what 3 I think everyone already knows in New York -- 4 we've led the way -- that we should not be 5 discriminating against anyone for any reason, 6 on employment, on pay equity, any of those 7 things. 8 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: If the 9 sponsor would continue to yield. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 11 you. Will the sponsor continue to yield? 12 SENATOR ROBACH: I will. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 14 you. The Senator yields. 15 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: I 16 certainly appreciate that broader explanation. 17 And so I guess now I'm concerned 18 about the study. I think those of us who have 19 waited so long for a disparity study and the 20 cost of that disparity study and the depth and 21 the breadth of minority-, women-owned 22 businesses and whether or not they were doing 23 business in New York -- we know they're not. 24 However -- not, certainly, to the extent that 25 they could and should. But however, there is

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 a study. 2 Is there some accommodation for the 3 expense of this study that you would begin to 4 undertake? What do you suspect it might cost? 5 And how long do you think before we can begin 6 to even study? 7 SENATOR ROBACH: I hope there 8 will be something before the year. And I have 9 every confidence Commissioner Smith, the Labor 10 Commissioner, who came from the Attorney 11 General's office, is, I think, not only very 12 capable, very interested, and has a little bit 13 of a different breadth of experience that will 14 make her not only committed but perfect for 15 heading this up. 16 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: Thank 17 you very much. 18 SENATOR ROBACH: You're welcome. 19 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: On the 20 bill. 21 Again, it is -- I think it is 22 interesting that we're spending this much time 23 on this: beginning to study things that we 24 know the answer to, limiting our studies where 25 we know that there is an expansive opportunity

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 for us. 2 Of course I will support this 3 legislation because I believe, hopefully, this 4 is the beginning of something that really 5 changes. I'll be supporting, obviously, the 6 motion to petition tomorrow and really urge 7 our colleagues that if we are really serious 8 about ending the inequity, which frankly is 9 embarrassing in 2008, that we do it not in a 10 month, not at the end of the year, not 11 depending on other people, but right here in 12 this body where we can. 13 Thank you. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 15 you, Senator. 16 Is there any other Senator wishing 17 to be heard? 18 Senator Robach will close to the 19 debate. 20 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes, Madam 21 President. Just to really reiterate, this has 22 been an interesting dialogue and I think is 23 somewhat useful. But I would have to say, 24 interestingly, one of the first times in my 25 legislative career where, for addressing

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 something quickly and aggressively, there's 2 been some degree of criticism leveled. 3 I also think that when we talk 4 about the merits of this bill, because of the 5 dialogue, I would be remiss -- people often 6 speak for you. What I said is exactly what I 7 did. I said I would look at the issue, I was 8 ideologically opposed to this -- again, for my 9 daughters, for the women in my family, the 10 women across New York State, people of every 11 race, creed and color -- and that I would look 12 at the issue as the new chairman and I would 13 try to take the action that I felt was best. 14 That is exactly what I did. 15 Quickly, timely, had a lot of dialogue with a 16 lot of people in this process, both inside the 17 Legislature and outside, to accomplish that 18 goal, even as well as my colleague on the 19 Assembly side of the aisle, who again I would 20 say has been a real champion for infants, 21 children, men and women, civil rights: Nettie 22 Mayersohn. We want to move this bill forward 23 and get it done. 24 This bill, again, sets forward a 25 review and an action plan for the commissioner

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 to out those people who are in violation and 2 increases the penalties dramatically. The 3 smallest increase is doubling; on the criminal 4 side, even increasing it 20 times what the 5 financial penalty is for those that violate. 6 Clearly, this is what many people 7 have been talking about, many people have been 8 advocating for. I believe both those things 9 going on at the same time will be good. And I 10 hope that they'll work in concert -- because 11 my assurance is this bill will pass, based on 12 its merit -- that as the study and the review 13 is done, and if people are found to be in 14 violation, we can then apply the second part 15 of this, which is the penalty. 16 And then, lastly, I'll applaud 17 everyone who is going to vote for this because 18 I believe it also does send a message to the 19 advocates and to the community at large that 20 we're serious about addressing this important 21 issue for everyone in New York. This not only 22 will help those workers that will benefit; I 23 think it makes our state stronger, and I 24 ultimately think it makes our businesses not 25 only fairer but stronger as well. So I would

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 encourage people to vote in the affirmative. 2 Thank you, Madam President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 4 you, Senator Robach. 5 The debate is closed. 6 The Secretary will ring the bell. 7 Read the last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Call 11 the roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 14 you. Senator Adams, to explain his vote. 15 SENATOR ADAMS: Thank you, Madam 16 President. 17 I want to thank Senator Johnson for 18 his explanation. I'm going to vote yea on 19 this bill. And I think, when you look at how 20 many single-family households are headed by 21 women, how important this issue is, we don't 22 need more studies to show how important it is 23 to make sure that people are paid fairly. And 24 we need to move ahead with this agenda. 25 I'm hoping tomorrow, when Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Johnson's bill is brought to the floor, we 2 would have the same positive energy and the 3 same sense of urgency that this needs to be 4 addressed. 5 I'm going to vote yes on this bill, 6 and I'm hoping and I encourage my colleagues 7 to do so also. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 9 you. Senator Adams will be recorded in the 10 affirmative. 11 Senator Maziarz, to explain his 12 vote. 13 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, 14 Madam President. 15 I too will be voting in the 16 affirmative on this legislation. 17 You know, today, today is kind of a 18 sad day for me here. I've been in this body 19 for 14 years, been honored every day I've 20 served here. And it's the first day ever, 21 first day ever that another Senator has 22 refused to yield for a question from me. 23 You know, on that side of the aisle 24 there are a lot of Senators who get up and 25 talk a lot. Senator Eric Adams, Kevin Parker,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Liz Krueger, Eric Schneiderman, Senator 2 Duane -- not so much Senator Duane recently, 3 but in the past, certainly. 4 You know, every day -- every day 5 that I am here, every day that I am here the 6 last call I make at night is to my wife. And 7 she and I talk, you know, for a little while, 8 and we kind of compare notes of what went on 9 that day. And I tell her about something that 10 Eric Adams got up and talked about here on the 11 floor. And I say, you know, he talked with 12 such passion and such commitment. And I so 13 admire that. I so admire that. 14 And it's an honor for me to serve 15 with all of you. You know why? Because 16 you're never offensive. And you're never 17 personal. 18 And that's what we lost here today. 19 That's what we lost here today. 20 I've served here with Franz 21 Leichter, Manny Gold, giants of the New York 22 State Senate. Ron Stafford, Charlie Cook, 23 John Marchi. You know, I can -- John 24 DeFrancisco. 25 (Laughter.)

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 UNIDENTIFIED SENATOR: Giants. 2 Giants. 3 (Laughter.) 4 SENATOR MAZIARZ: You know, when 5 Marty Connor gets up and talks about the 6 history of the Senate because he's been here 7 so long, it's also like a young version of 8 John Marchi talking, you know: he knows 9 everything. 10 I would encourage the leadership in 11 the Minority to think about things like that. 12 I think when you personally attack 13 another Senator on the floor of this body, 14 it's not good for any of us. Not good for any 15 of us. 16 And when I leave here -- and I hope 17 that's a few years from now, by the way -- you 18 know, I want to be able to say that every day 19 I served here that I was proud of it and that 20 I was honored to serve with all of you. 21 Thank you, Madam President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 23 you. Senator Maziarz, how do you vote? 24 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Aye. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 you. Senator Maziarz will be recorded in the 2 affirmative. 3 Senator Hassell-Thompson. 4 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank 5 you, Madam President. Just to explain my 6 vote. 7 I will in fact be voting yes on 8 this bill. 9 I'm not -- I'm still not quite 10 clear what the objective of an additional 11 study will give. I would have thought that 12 the kinds of things that we would be looking 13 for in this bill would become policy as 14 opposed to legislative. 15 However, I am concerned that in the 16 process of this study, it will in fact delay 17 the moment at which the State of New York 18 declares that it does in fact owe all workers 19 in the State of New York equitable pay. 20 When the Urban League just did its 21 study several weeks ago on employment among 22 blacks in New York and across this country, 23 they talked about 70 percent of black 24 households were headed by women. Whether 25 we're proud or not of those statistics is not

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 relevant. What is relevant is that they are 2 working women supporting families. And when 3 we talk about them receiving less than other 4 workers in the workplace for the same work, it 5 is doubly unfair, because they are carrying a 6 burden alone. 7 I think that our obligation as 8 legislators is to be concerned about all the 9 people in the State of New York. And as we 10 look at our working class, those who are doing 11 the best that they can, they expect more from 12 us. And I expect more from us. And I would 13 hope that at some point we would come to the 14 point of reality and say let's move the agenda 15 in the right direction. That's my hope. 16 Thank you, Madam President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 18 you. Senator Hassell-Thompson will be 19 recorded in the affirmative. 20 Senator Craig Johnson, to explain 21 his vote. 22 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank you 23 very much. 24 I rise in support of this 25 legislation. And I thank my colleagues on the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Democratic aisle in advance of tomorrow's vote 2 that we're going to take. 3 This is a start. It's a start 4 that, quite frankly, my concern is it's going 5 to be a false one and that the bill tomorrow 6 that we're going to address is the real thing. 7 I'm not going to get into personal 8 attacks that have been made, 9 misrepresentations. I will say that last week 10 I sat here as a member of this body and heard 11 one Senator claim that we violated our oath of 12 office because we stood up for the way this 13 conference, our conference has been treated 14 and was treated in the budget negotiations. I 15 didn't hear anybody on the other side 16 disagree. I heard a lot of anger and 17 resentment towards the members of my 18 conference about violations of oath of office. 19 It is clear through the debate, 20 through the history that I do not, 21 unfortunately, share yet with my colleagues 22 who have been here a number of years, that pay 23 equity has been called for in the '80s, and 24 it's been ignored by the Majority. It's been 25 called for in the '90s, and it's been ignored.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Since 2002 the Assembly sponsor, the same-as 2 sponsor of my bill, they've passed it in the 3 Assembly and referred it, and it's been 4 ignored. 5 Today is a start. Let's hope it 6 gets there. Let's hope we have a better 7 tomorrow for our minorities and for our women 8 who work, who are so vital to our workforce. 9 I vote yes. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 11 you. Senator Johnson will be recorded in the 12 affirmative. 13 Senator Duane, to explain his vote. 14 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Madam 15 President. 16 I had my name mixed in with a lot 17 of present and past Senators which I hold in 18 the greatest of esteem. Although I do have to 19 mention that I believe that some of my 20 colleagues on the other side of the aisle, 21 though I was not here, thought that Senator 22 Leichter would be a little bit annoying when 23 he talked also. Now, he's not here to defend 24 himself. But I think they learned to love him 25 over time.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 And I am convinced -- and I also 2 know that Senator Lanza has told me how much 3 he loves it when I debate and wants more of 4 it, has asked for more of that, as a matter of 5 fact. 6 (Laughter.) 7 SENATOR DUANE: So -- but I like 8 to share, Madam President. And in that, I'm 9 going to make sure that all of my colleagues 10 get to share. And sometimes they'll upset 11 people, and sometimes they'll make people 12 laugh. But really to have healthy debates and 13 discussion in this body is, I think, always a 14 good idea. 15 So I will be voting yes, Madam 16 President, in the spirit of all of the greats 17 whose names have been mentioned who previously 18 were in this body and who are in this body 19 today. 20 Thank you, Madam President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 22 you. Senator Duane will be recorded in the 23 affirmative. 24 Senator DeFrancisco, to explain his 25 vote.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, I'm 2 going to vote aye. And I'm a little bit -- 3 can't quite understand why people are saying 4 this type of activity is not outlawed. 5 Because this bill that Senator Robach brought 6 out is an improvement on a bill that became 7 law in 2002. 8 And I commend Senator Robach, after 9 a few weeks of being chairman of the 10 committee, for working to strengthen the laws 11 against discrimination against women in the 12 wage area. 13 And to suggest that it's not 14 outlawed, and the first offense is a 15 misdemeanor, the second offense is a felony -- 16 there's a lot of criminal statutes that we 17 have that some people don't vote for because 18 they think it's just too harsh. Well, it 19 seems to me there is a law. Discrimination is 20 illegal. And it's being strengthened at this 21 time. 22 And I commend Senator Robach at 23 this time, having been chairman of the 24 committee for such a short time, to make it 25 his priority and to bring this law into a much

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 stronger -- this bill a much stronger bill and 2 hopefully a much stronger law. 3 I vote aye. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 5 you. Senator DeFrancisco will be recorded in 6 the affirmative. 7 Senator Oppenheimer, to explain her 8 vote. 9 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Yes, thank 10 you, Madam President. 11 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Another 12 giant. 13 (Laughter.) 14 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Another 15 giant. At least nobody is saying "please 16 stand up when you address the Senate." 17 (Laughter.) 18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I will be 19 voting yes for this bill, though I am puzzled 20 by the need for another study. 21 I know maybe 20 years ago I was 22 carrying a similar-type bill, and that was 23 because I had experienced pay inequity. And I 24 think this was brought out last week when some 25 of the advocates were up here.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 After I got my M.B.A. from 2 Columbia, I went down to Wall Street and I was 3 working in one of the major houses on Wall 4 Street, and I was handling certain industries 5 for them in research. And in my room with me 6 was a classmate who had graduated when I did, 7 got his M.B.A. at Columbia, and he was earning 8 almost $10,000 more than I was earning. 9 And so right from the very start -- 10 at that point, we are talking many years ago. 11 And I guess I didn't want to ruffle feathers, 12 because we were only about ten women on Wall 13 Street back then. This was in the late '50s 14 and the early '60s. And I guess I was fearful 15 that if I brought this up, that I would 16 experience some negative responses. But 17 that's why, when I came up here maybe 20 years 18 ago or more, I was looking at this bill. 19 So I really don't think we need to 20 study. I mean, I'm the perfect example. And 21 this has been going on for 50 years. And I 22 think that we have the studies to validate it. 23 But I have nothing against the 24 bill; I just think it's unnecessary to do more 25 studies. And certainly if we want to increase

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 fines, I guess that's valid. But I think we 2 really have to do more, act more now. 3 I'll be voting yes. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 5 you. Senator Oppenheimer will be recorded in 6 the affirmative. 7 The Secretary will announce the 8 results. 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 62. Nays, 10 0. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 12 bill is passed. 13 Senator Skelos. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there any 15 further business at the desk? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: No, 17 there is no further business. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe 19 there's one motion to petition, if we could 20 take it up at this time. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 22 you. 23 Senator Johnson. 24 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Madam 25 President, I have a motion at the desk. I

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 would like to have it called up at this time. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 3 you. The Secretary will read. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senate Print 5 7037, by Senator C. Johnson, an act requiring 6 resolutions be passed prior to the 7 Metropolitan Transportation Authority's 8 approval. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 10 you. Senator Johnson. 11 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank you 12 very much, Madam President. 13 Simply put, this bill, Senate Bill 14 7037, is about choice. And it's about 15 empowering our communities to have a say in 16 what happens in our own backyards. 17 To those unfamiliar, the Long 18 Island Railroad's third track expansion 19 project would lay approximately 10 miles of 20 track between the Hicksville and Floral Park 21 train stations located in Long Island. This 22 is a project that goes right through the 23 southern portion of the 7th Senatorial 24 District, a district I represent, bisecting 25 dozens of residential neighborhoods, creating

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 real eminent domain issues, to say nothing 2 about the real potential to irrevocably harm 3 the quality of life for these residents. 4 This is obviously of great concern 5 to the residents and the people of these 6 communities and their elected representatives, 7 such as myself. And in my view, the MTA and 8 the Long Island Railroad, under the last two 9 administrations, have not done nearly enough 10 to allay these concerns. They have, in fact, 11 had a tough enough time trying to settle on a 12 justification for this project. 13 A little history. First when they 14 talked about this, they said the project was 15 to increase freight capacity. The proposed 16 truck-to-rail intermodal facility that the DOT 17 wants to build in Suffolk County would 18 certainly back up this justification. 19 But when I and the mainline 20 communities in my district rallied against it, 21 the MTA and third track quickly changed their 22 song. They said no, no, no, it's about 23 accommodating reverse commuters from New York 24 City to Long Island. Only the fact is, is 25 when they actually did the research, there

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 weren't really the reverse commute to justify 2 a third track. 3 And so now they say, well, let's 4 try another one. We're going to call it a 5 passing lane that's going to help the proposed 6 East Side access to Penn Station. But of 7 course, when pressed, the MTA and Long Island 8 Railroad officials admit they don't need the 9 third track for East Side access. And if it 10 is for East Side access, why does the proposed 11 third track stop before it hits Floral Park? 12 If the third track is really the congestion 13 reliever that the MTA claims it to be, 14 shouldn't it go all the way to the Jamaica 15 station in Queens? 16 But of course, by the time this 17 motion is voted upon, the MTA will probably 18 come up with yet again another justification 19 to support this project. They may say, look, 20 Senator Johnson, if we build the third track, 21 they'll all come out. 22 Well, the fact remains is that the 23 mainline communities don't have the parking 24 necessary to actually support a third track. 25 If they build it, in fact, in the New Hyde

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Park area, the village of New Hyde Park is 2 also going to be undergoing construction for 3 Jericho Turnpike, a state road, at the same 4 time. No one is going to be able to get 5 through the village of New Hyde Park if this 6 project goes on with the Route 25 project. 7 The people, the residents of the 8 mainline corridor are now being asked to 9 shoulder the burdens of third track. But they 10 currently have few answers and no say about 11 how this project is going to be built and will 12 it be built. 13 Well, this legislation, my 14 colleagues, will correct that. Under this 15 bill the village boards of trustees for 16 Bellerose, Floral Park, New Hyde Park, Garden 17 City, Mineola and Westbury, as well as the 18 town boards in Hempstead, North Hempstead and 19 Oyster Bay, which represent the unincorporated 20 areas, would have to vote to approve this 21 project. 22 All the Nassau Senators represent 23 these towns. Two-thirds of these 24 municipalities will be needed to approve it 25 before a third track can proceed.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 But most importantly, no vote can 2 be taken without a public hearing. That will 3 require and leave to the MTA and the Long 4 Island Railroad no choice but to listen to the 5 concerns and recommendations of the residents 6 who live in the mainline corridor and whose 7 lives are going to be impacted by the third 8 track proposal. It would afford the residents 9 the opportunity to have all their questions 10 answered once and for all. 11 Last week, as you may recall, media 12 reports emerged suggesting that the MTA was 13 considering, once again, another fare hike to 14 pay for its five-year capital plan, of which 15 the third track is a part of. So I now hope 16 one of the first questions to ask is how do we 17 pay for the third track. 18 It is unfortunate that a bill like 19 this is needed. And I actually have a 20 suggestion to the MTA. They want to pay for 21 their capital projects, they can't find the 22 money? Let's make it very simple. Dump the 23 third track. It will save the MTA 24 $1.3 billion right off the bat. 25 Like I said, it's unfortunate that

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 a bill like this is necessary and needed. But 2 frankly, I do not see a better alternative 3 making sure that the communities affected by 4 the third track get the information that they 5 need about this project and have the ability 6 to make sure that their voices are heard. 7 In fact, there was a similar bill 8 sponsored by one of my colleagues from Long 9 Island that sought to empower the communities 10 that would be affected by the Broadwater in 11 the same manner. Thankfully and fortunately, 12 it looks like that measure will not be 13 necessary. And maybe one day the people of 14 the mainline communities will have the same 15 luck. 16 But until that day, and for this 17 moment, this legislation is vital and 18 necessary. I urge every Senator to join me 19 today in voting to bring this measure to the 20 floor. 21 Thank you very much, Madam 22 President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 24 you. 25 All those Senators in favor of the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 petition out of committee please signify by 2 raising their hands. 3 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 4 agreement are Senators Adams, Aubertine, 5 Breslin, Diaz, Gonzalez, Hassell-Thompson, 6 C. Johnson, Klein, Montgomery, Onorato, 7 Oppenheimer, Perkins, Sampson, Schneiderman, 8 Serrano, Smith, Stachowski, Stewart-Cousins, 9 Thompson and Valesky. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: The 11 petition is not agreed to. 12 Senator Griffo. 13 SENATOR GRIFFO: Yes, Madam 14 President, is there any further business 15 before the desk? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: No, 17 Senator, there is no further business at the 18 desk. 19 SENATOR GRIFFO: There being 20 none, I move that we adjourn until Tuesday, 21 April 15th, at 3:00 p.m. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT LITTLE: Thank 23 you. On motion, the Senate stands adjourned 24 until Tuesday afternoon at 3:00 p.m., 25 April 15th.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 (Whereupon, at 5:11 p.m., the 2 Senate adjourned.) 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910