Monday, February 23, 2009

1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE 2 3 4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 February 23, 2009 11 3:13 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR DAVID J. VALESKY, Acting President 19 ANGELO J. APONTE, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24

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(518) 371-8910 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 Senate will please come to order. 4 I ask everyone present to please 5 rise and repeat with me the Pledge of 6 Allegiance. 7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 10 invocation today will be delivered by the 11 Reverend Randy Milleville, pastor of the Zion 12 Lutheran Church in Clarence Center, New York. 13 REVEREND MILLEVILLE: Let me 14 share with you a reading from the book of 15 1st Timothy: "The first thing I want you to 16 do is pray. Pray every way you know how for 17 everyone you know. Pray especially for rulers 18 and their governments to rule well, so we can 19 be quietly about our business of living simply 20 in humble contemplation. This is the way our 21 Savior God wants us to live." 22 I invite you to take a moment of 23 silence in memory of the victims of Flight 24 3407.

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(518) 371-8910 1 (Whereupon, the assemblage 2 respected a moment of silence.) 3 REVEREND MILLEVILLE: Let us 4 pray. 5 Living God, gracious Father, we 6 give You thanks this day for the blessings You 7 give, for home and family, food and clothing, 8 and all that we need from day to day. 9 We remember especially today the 10 families and friends of those who died in the 11 crash of Flight 3407. Give them comfort in 12 their grief and support in their distress. 13 For the firefighters and the first 14 responders who were among the first on the 15 scene, and for those who stayed the course in 16 the days that followed, we give You thanks for 17 equipping them with the courage and the 18 strength to finish the tasks of rescue and 19 recovery. 20 Be with those who were displaced 21 and with those whose lives were touched and 22 forever changed by this horror. Grant them 23 Your peace and remind them that You are with 24 them always.

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(518) 371-8910 1 We also ask You to remember today, 2 Lord God, and ask Your blessings upon our 3 elected leaders -- for President Obama, for 4 Governor Paterson, and for all who serve this 5 great state in these legislative bodies. 6 Let Your light shine upon them. 7 Give them wisdom and strength, courage and 8 understanding, especially when the going gets 9 tough. For the task that is ahead of them is 10 great, and the challenges are many in this 11 time of economic stress and hardship. 12 So keep watch over our elected 13 leaders. Watch over them and their families. 14 Remind all citizens of this state to put their 15 trust in You, to continue to pray for them and 16 this thing to which You have called them. Use 17 us to support their work and service to their 18 communities and to the State of New York. 19 And to all who govern, in whatever 20 capacity and in whatever setting, grant a 21 spirit of cooperation, of listening, of 22 congeniality and respect, that the work to 23 which You have called them might be 24 accomplished.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And may none but honest and wise 2 men and women ever rule on behalf of the 3 people. In Your great name we pray. 4 Amen. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 6 you, Reverend. 7 Reading of the Journal. 8 The Secretary will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 10 Friday, February 20, the Senate met pursuant 11 to adjournment. The Journal of Thursday, 12 February 19, was read and approved. On 13 motion, Senate adjourned. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Without objection, the Journal stands approved 16 as read. 17 Presentation of petitions. 18 Messages from the Assembly. 19 Messages from the Governor. 20 Reports of standing committees. 21 Reports of select committees. 22 Communications and reports from 23 state officers. 24 Motions and resolutions.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Klein. 2 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, I 3 believe Senator Nozzolio has a privileged 4 resolution at the desk. I ask that the 5 resolution be read in its entirety and move 6 for its immediate adoption. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 8 Secretary will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 10 Nozzolio, Legislative Resolution Number 393, 11 congratulating the Red Creek Boys Soccer Team 12 and Coach Donald Hartley upon the occasion of 13 capturing the 2008 Class C State Championship. 14 "WHEREAS, Excellence and success in 15 competitive sports can be achieved only 16 through strenuous practice, team play and team 17 spirit, nurtured by dedicated coaching and 18 strategic planning; and 19 "WHEREAS, Athletic competition 20 enhances the moral and physical development of 21 the young people of this state, preparing them 22 for the future by instilling in them the value 23 of teamwork, encouraging a standard of healthy 24 living, imparting a desire for success, and

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(518) 371-8910 1 developing a sense of fair play and 2 competition; and 3 "WHEREAS, The Red Creek Boys Soccer 4 Team are the 2008 Class C State Champions. 5 The Mules defeated North Salem and won their 6 third state championship in four years; and 7 "WHEREAS, The athletic talent 8 displayed by this team is due in great part to 9 the efforts of Coach Donald Hartley and 10 Assistant Coach Kent Knox, skilled and 11 inspirational tutors, respected for their 12 ability to develop potential into excellence; 13 and 14 "WHEREAS, The team's overall record 15 is outstanding, and the team members were 16 loyally and enthusiastically supported by 17 family, fans, friends and the community at 18 large; and 19 "WHEREAS, The hallmarks of the Red 20 Creek Boys Soccer Team, from the opening game 21 of the season to participation in the 22 championship, were a brotherhood of athletic 23 ability, of good sportsmanship, of honor and 24 of scholarship, demonstrating that these team

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(518) 371-8910 1 players are second to none; and 2 "WHEREAS, Coach Donald Hartley and 3 Assistant Coach Kent Knox have done a superb 4 job in guiding, molding and inspiring the team 5 members toward their goals; and 6 "WHEREAS, Sports competition 7 instills the values of teamwork, pride and 8 accomplishment, and Coach Donald Hartley and 9 Assistant Coach Kent Knox and their 10 outstanding athletes have clearly made a 11 contribution to the spirit of excellence which 12 is a tradition of their school; now, 13 therefore, be it 14 "RESOLVED, That this Legislative 15 Body pause its deliberations to congratulate 16 the Red Creek Boys Soccer Team, its members -- 17 Reis Cunningham, Ryan Fisher, Alex Keeling, 18 Anthony Losurdo, Keyan Scutt, Ryan Adam, Kevin 19 Dates, Nathaniel Gregg, Don Stevenson, Brandin 20 Vanderbush, Steven Deferio, Colton Ginther, 21 Drew Knox, Ryan Pudlowski, Cody Sherman, Shane 22 Bradley, Ryan Gould, Trevor Knox, Matthew 23 Treby, and Eli Vatale -- Coach Donald Hartley 24 and Assistant Coach Kent Knox on their

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(518) 371-8910 1 outstanding season and overall team record; 2 and be it further 3 "RESOLVED, That copies of this 4 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted 5 to the members of the Red Creek Boys Soccer 6 Team, Coach Donald Hartley, and Assistant 7 Coach Kent Knox." 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 9 Senator Nozzolio, on the resolution. 10 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, 11 Mr. President. 12 As you well know, Mr. President, as 13 a representative of a portion of the Red Creek 14 Central School District, that we often 15 recognize championship teams here in the State 16 Capitol and in this body of the New York State 17 Senate. 18 But never, to my recollection, have 19 we honored a team and school whose 20 accomplishments have been so extraordinary: 21 Three state championships in the last four 22 years. That is, by all stretch of the 23 imagination, an accomplishment that I daresay 24 is not repeated very frequently in this state

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(518) 371-8910 1 or in any state. 2 And those championships did not 3 come by accident. They came by hard work and 4 great coaching. And that's another reason why 5 we're here today, Mr. President, to 6 acknowledge the great contributions of Don 7 Hartley to this wonderful school district and 8 part of the state in northeastern Wayne County 9 and northwestern Cayuga County. 10 This incredible accomplishment of 11 three out of four championships I believe was 12 only surpassed, possibly, by Coach Hartley 13 himself, who has been the winning coach now of 14 six state championship teams. 15 Coach Hartley and his staff have 16 done great work in molding these fine young 17 men, not just as soccer players but, more 18 importantly, as good citizens, as ambassadors 19 of their community, as role models to younger 20 children growing up in Red Creek and Fair 21 Haven, and being part of a program that has a 22 great deal of pride along with its tremendous 23 accomplishment. 24 It starts at the top. And I'm very

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(518) 371-8910 1 pleased that David Sholes, who's the 2 superintendent of schools of Red Creek, is 3 here today, along with Noel Patterson, 4 principal of Red Creek High School, and Matt 5 VanOrman, who is the athletic director of 6 Red Creek Central School. And Coach Hartley, 7 along with Assistant Coach Kent Knox. 8 And that we're very pleased that 9 they have come, together with a number of 10 supporters and chaperones as well, to honor 11 these fine young men. Fine young men who are 12 not just state champions, although they 13 certainly are state champions. A few have 14 actually been on all three of the last three 15 state championship teams Red Creek has entered 16 into. But more importantly, they're fine 17 young men who are wonderful role models for 18 future generations from that community. 19 It's an honor to have them here 20 today. It's an honor to recognize their 21 wonderful accomplishment. We take pride in 22 that accomplishment. And I daresay, 23 Mr. President, it's a fine day for the State 24 of New York and particularly Red Creek.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Which, by the way, it was decided 2 today that Red Creek is not at the end of 3 Section 5, which has its population center in 4 a city a little further west, but it is 5 actually the beginning of Section 5. And 6 that's where all Section 5 emanates now, 7 thanks to the great accomplishments of the Red 8 Creek Central School. 9 Thank you, Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 11 you, Senator Nozzolio. 12 The question is on the resolution. 13 All in favor signify by saying aye. 14 (Response of "Aye.") 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 16 Opposed, nay. 17 (No response.) 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 19 resolution is adopted. 20 On behalf of Senator Nozzolio and 21 all of the members, congratulations to each 22 and every member of the Red Creek Boys Soccer 23 Team, State Class C champions for the third 24 time in four years.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Congratulations. 2 (Applause.) 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: At the 4 request of Senator Nozzolio, the resolution is 5 open for multisponsorship by the entire house. 6 Any member wishing not to multisponsor this 7 resolution should so inform the desk. 8 Senator Klein. 9 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, at 10 this time can we go to noncontroversial 11 reading of Senate Calendar Number 8. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 13 Secretary will read. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 4, by Senator Sampson, Senate Print 134A, an 16 act to amend the Real Property Law, in 17 relation to -- 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay it aside, 19 please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 21 bill is laid aside. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 8, by Senator C. Johnson, Senate Print 958A, 24 an act to amend the Executive Law, in relation

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(518) 371-8910 1 to prohibiting employers. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Craig Johnson, to explain his vote. 11 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 12 you, Mr. President. I wish to explain my 13 vote. 14 Mr. President, the purpose of this 15 legislation is to protect victims of domestic 16 violence and stalking from being terminated 17 from their job due to the fact that their 18 status as a victim of domestic violence or 19 stalking may impede upon their job. 20 As all of us here know in the State 21 Senate, we've worked very hard in a bipartisan 22 manner to combat domestic violence. It still 23 remains a blight on the American family and 24 society. Victims of domestic violence come

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(518) 371-8910 1 from all walks of life. The diversity, 2 though, of this victimhood, they all share the 3 same experience of living in fear for 4 themselves and for their children. 5 One of the most important and 6 valuable weapons that these victims have is 7 the ability to secure and hold a job. Many of 8 the victims who leave these abusive 9 relationships are oftentimes put in the 10 position of needing time away from work in 11 order to consult with attorneys, counselors, 12 childcare providers, others who help them 13 through the trauma and stress. And it's the 14 ability to have such a job that gives them the 15 independence to be away from their batterers. 16 At the same time, at the same time, 17 it's important for the employers to have these 18 protections. Domestic violence often leads to 19 absenteeism, increased healthcare costs, 20 higher turnover, lower productivity, and even 21 a greater risk that the violence comes into 22 the workplace. Therefore, there is a mutual 23 advantage for both the employer and the 24 employee to work together to end this threat

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(518) 371-8910 1 of violence. 2 I'm proud that this Senate body 3 today will pass a piece of legislation that 4 will protect the employee from being 5 discriminated against because of his or her 6 status as a victim of domestic violence. I 7 thank the members of this body for your 8 support. I thank both the Minority and the 9 Majority for supporting this important 10 initiative for the victims of domestic 11 violence. 12 Thank you very much, Mr. President. 13 I'll be voting in the affirmative. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Senator C. Johnson to be recorded in the 16 affirmative. 17 The Secretary will announce the 18 results. 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 58. Nays, 20 0. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 22 bill is passed. 23 Senator Klein, that completes the 24 noncontroversial reading of the calendar.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, at 2 this time will you please move to the 3 controversial reading of the calendar. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 5 Secretary will ring the bells to call all 6 members to the chamber so that we can proceed 7 with the controversial reading of the 8 calendar. 9 The Secretary will proceed with the 10 controversial reading of the calendar. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 4, by Senator Sampson, Senate Print 134A, an 13 act to amend the Real Property Law, in 14 relation to requiring. 15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Explanation. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator Sampson, an explanation of the bill 18 has been requested. 19 SENATOR SAMPSON: Thank you, 20 Mr. President. 21 This Senate Bill Number 4 basically 22 requires those buyers who are engaging to 23 purchase property to be given a loan 24 disclosure form which provides them

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(518) 371-8910 1 information as to a financial counselor they 2 can access if they need to when they're 3 seeking to purchase a -- 4 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 5 President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 7 Senator Marcellino, why do you rise? 8 SENATOR MARCELLINO: With all due 9 respect to my colleague, I cannot hear what 10 the gentleman is saying. Could we have some 11 order in the house, please. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Point 13 well taken. 14 Order in the Senate chamber, 15 please, so that we can hear Senator Sampson 16 explain his bill. Thank you. 17 SENATOR SAMPSON: Thank you very 18 much, Mr. President. Thank you very much, 19 Senator Marcellino. 20 Basically, this bill allows a buyer 21 who's interested in purchasing a piece of 22 property, that to those contracts there has to 23 be a loan disclosure form providing them the 24 information of certain financial counselors

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(518) 371-8910 1 they can use or they can solicit or get 2 information from to find out about the loans 3 that they're seeking to purchase or engage in 4 when they're purchasing a piece of property. 5 Because of the serious financial 6 crisis we're into because of these 7 foreclosures and the lack of information that 8 has been provided to these buyers, it's just 9 another form of just giving them access to 10 information to allow them to make reasoned 11 decisions when they are purchasing homes or 12 getting into any sort of commercial 13 transaction which requires a purchase. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Senator Bonacic. 16 SENATOR BONACIC: Yes, thank you, 17 Senator Sampson. There's a couple of 18 questions I'd like to ask you concerning the 19 wording of the bill. 20 And I know during the Judiciary 21 Committee meeting you did make certain changes 22 that made the bill better. And I agree with 23 the intent of what we're trying to do, but I 24 just want to talk about some of the wording so

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(518) 371-8910 1 you can express your legislative intent. 2 Okay? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Bonacic, are you speaking on the bill 5 or asking Senator Sampson to yield to a 6 question? 7 SENATOR BONACIC: I'm going 8 asking if he would yield to two or three 9 questions. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 11 Senator Sampson, do you yield? 12 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes, I have no 13 problem yielding. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Okay. 15 Go ahead, Senator Bonacic. 16 SENATOR BONACIC: I guess my 17 first question is if the broker or the 18 attorney do not comply, is there consequences? 19 Because the bill is silent on that subject. I 20 would ask what your thoughts are. 21 SENATOR SAMPSON: Through you, 22 Mr. President. Basically, this is not a piece 23 of punitive legislation. The intent here is 24 to basically provide the information to those

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(518) 371-8910 1 buyers. 2 But at the same time, you have 3 those buyers who may engage in getting a 4 mortgage and then come later on and say, "You 5 know what, I don't feel like consummating this 6 deal or going through." At least the broker 7 and or the attorney can say: We provided them 8 the information, they had all the information 9 to go through and find out whatever 10 information they needed to complete this deal 11 and all of a sudden they say, 'I don't have 12 the information, I don't know what I'm doing, 13 so therefore I want to get out of the deal.' 14 So it also gives them an 15 opportunity, a backup, just in case you have 16 those individuals -- sometimes you have buyers 17 who just enter into contracts who don't intend 18 on consummating the deals. But at least it 19 gives them that protection if possible. 20 SENATOR BONACIC: Will Senator 21 Sampson continue to yield. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Sampson, do you continue to yield? 24 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes, I continue

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(518) 371-8910 1 to yield. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 Senator yields. 4 SENATOR BONACIC: If the attorney 5 and/or the mortgage broker do not comply with 6 this disclosure, in your mind, does the 7 purchaser have a cause of action? And against 8 whom? And can he void the transaction because 9 of attorney malpractice, broker malpractice? 10 What was your thinking in that area? 11 SENATOR SAMPSON: Well, my 12 thinking -- through you, Mr. President -- was 13 just a means of information to the prospective 14 buyer. If the attorney or broker -- they're 15 not engaging in any fraud, so the only thing 16 they're providing them is a disclosure 17 document saying that these are the list of 18 HUD-approved or HPD-approved counselors that 19 you may seek when you're looking for a 20 mortgage. 21 SENATOR BONACIC: Will you 22 continue to yield? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Senator Sampson, do you continue to yield?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes, I continue 2 to yield. 3 SENATOR BONACIC: So there would 4 not be a cause of action against the broker or 5 the attorney, this is more for information and 6 enlightenment to the purchaser? Is that your 7 intent? 8 SENATOR SAMPSON: Through you, 9 Mr. President, correct, that's my intent. 10 Basically a form of information. Nothing 11 punitive. 12 SENATOR BONACIC: Would you 13 continue to yield for another question? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Senator Sampson. 16 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes, I continue 17 to yield. 18 SENATOR BONACIC: In the wording 19 of the bill you put the obligation on the 20 attorney to furnish a list of counselors 21 within a hundred miles of I guess where that 22 transaction is taking place. 23 SENATOR SAMPSON: Correct. 24 SENATOR BONACIC: But for me, in

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(518) 371-8910 1 Orange County, I touch three states within a 2 hundred miles. 3 So do I have an obligation to 4 furnish that purchaser or that mortgagor with 5 a list of mortgage counselors outside the 6 State of New York? Or is your intent only in 7 the State of New York? 8 SENATOR SAMPSON: Well, if we're 9 talking about -- if they're HUD-approved -- 10 through you, Mr. President. If they're 11 HUD-approved counselors, those counselors 12 basically would be on a federal list that 13 would be applicable to all the states in this 14 country. 15 But what this bill intends to do is 16 give those small towns access to maybe larger 17 areas in which these counselors are. And 18 that's what the intent of the bill was, just 19 purely just give them access. 20 SENATOR BONACIC: Could I get 21 another question, Senator Sampson, on this 22 point? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Senator Sampson, do you continue to yield?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes, I do. 2 SENATOR BONACIC: So I would have 3 the obligation of having to furnish the 4 counselors in Jersey, in Pennsylvania, and in 5 Connecticut? 6 SENATOR SAMPSON: Through you, 7 Mr. President. Basically, if this transaction 8 is a New York-based transaction, as long as -- 9 if you give those buyers the list of 10 counselors in New York State, you are covered. 11 SENATOR BONACIC: Okay. Can I 12 continue with another question for 13 Mr. Sampson? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Senator Sampson? 16 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes. 17 SENATOR BONACIC: And I thank 18 you, by the way, Senator Sampson, for sticking 19 with this. 20 Your bill requires attorneys and 21 brokers to update their approved counselors 22 via HUD or the Department of Housing 23 Preservation and Development every 108 days. 24 That's on lines 12 and 13.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Is that New York City Department of 2 Housing Preservation and Development? Because 3 the bill is silent on who you're referring to. 4 SENATOR SAMPSON: Well, who I'm 5 referring to is in any jurisdiction. New York 6 City has Housing Preservation and Development. 7 But any other county may have a different real 8 estate or housing preservation division that 9 deals with that. 10 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you. 11 Senator Sampson, thank you. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 13 you, Senator Bonacic. 14 Senator Ranzenhofer. 15 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Thank you, 16 Mr. President. 17 I had expressed some concerns 18 concerning this bill in committee. And the 19 primary concern that I have, to start off, is 20 I do not believe that this has really been 21 vetted by the people that are actually going 22 to be participating in the business. 23 When I went back to my community 24 and I had asked members of the bar association

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(518) 371-8910 1 and the real estate community if they had had 2 any input on this particular issue -- because 3 normally, when you're making changes involving 4 buyers and sellers and real estate agents, the 5 real estate community and the legal community 6 likes to have some input -- and they've had no 7 input on this particular issue -- because this 8 is going to be something which is going to 9 affect them because it's a state law. 10 So I'm concerned about that, that 11 we really haven't reached out to them to get 12 their feelings about this particular issue. 13 The second thing, just from a very 14 practical standpoint at least in our 15 community, is that every time you add another 16 addendum to a contract, you're going to 17 increase the cost between the buyer and the 18 seller. And normally when somebody comes in 19 to buy a house, they're counting their pennies 20 and they have figured down to the penny, based 21 on what the price or the cost of the house is 22 going to be and what their mortgage is going 23 to be, whether or not they can afford it. 24 And, you know, just knowing the way

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(518) 371-8910 1 that the business world works with lawyers and 2 real estate brokers, this is going to increase 3 the cost of the transaction. 4 But the greatest concern that I 5 have -- and I expressed this in committee -- 6 is that while the idea has some merit to give 7 somebody who is getting financing an 8 opportunity to get a second opinion, in 9 reality what happens is very often when 10 somebody buys a piece of property, primarily 11 residential property, is that they've already 12 been preapproved for a mortgage. They've 13 already gone in, they've met with the finance 14 company, they've met with the bank, and they 15 have their mortgage all set and then they go 16 around and they shop for a house. 17 And what you have here is once 18 their financing is in place, you're then 19 saying that you then have to provide this 20 particular list. 21 Quite frankly, this particular type 22 of legislation, as I expressed in committee, 23 really should be something that happens at the 24 financing level.

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(518) 371-8910 1 When somebody goes in to get a 2 loan -- again, whether it be for commercial 3 property or residential property -- if you 4 truly want to protect that person and give 5 them an opportunity to have a second opinion 6 or just get some additional advice, the 7 obligation should really be with the bank or 8 with the finance company that's providing the 9 financing, because that's when the person is 10 going to be focused on the issue. 11 And, secondly, that's when the 12 person is actually dealing with the financing. 13 The actual signing of the real estate contract 14 could be days, weeks later. And it really is 15 not something that affects the buyer and the 16 seller, it really affects the purchaser and 17 the bank. 18 So for that reason, again, you 19 know, I had hoped that we would have an 20 amendment to this bill to put the actual 21 obligation in the spot where it belongs. This 22 is kind of like putting a square peg in a 23 round hole. It just doesn't fit. It's just 24 not the right spot for this particular piece

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(518) 371-8910 1 of legislation. 2 So that's the objection that I have 3 to it. Again, I expressed that during the 4 committee. And I just wanted to express my 5 opinion for the record. 6 Thank you. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 8 you, Senator Ranzenhofer. 9 Senator Saland. 10 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 11 Mr. President. Mr. President, would Senator 12 Sampson yield for a question? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Sampson, do you yield? 15 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes, I have no 16 problem yielding. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 18 Senator yields. 19 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 20 Senator Sampson. 21 Senator Sampson, I see in the first 22 paragraph of your bill that you propose to 23 make this requirement applicable to both 24 commercial and residential real estate. Is

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(518) 371-8910 1 there a particular reason why you've included 2 commercial and not limited this type of 3 disclosure to residential? 4 SENATOR SAMPSON: Through you, 5 Mr. President. Senator Saland, basically it 6 applies to both residential and commercial 7 because, you know, I'm looking at holistically 8 the problems that we have faced with respect 9 to the foreclosure. It did not discriminate 10 against residential or commercial. 11 Basically, we are being hit, our 12 financial markets are being hit about loans 13 that were given to both residential and 14 commercial. That's why I chose to cover this 15 with this piece of legislation. 16 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, 17 would Senator Sampson continue to yield? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator Sampson, do you continue to yield? 20 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes, I do. 21 SENATOR SALAND: Senator Sampson, 22 is it not true that generally commercial 23 applicants are a bit more sophisticated than 24 residential applicants? And in this

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(518) 371-8910 1 particular case, you could be talking 2 multi-million-dollar deals where somebody who 3 is a businessperson or a corporate entity is 4 being told that they should go through this 5 step of getting mortgage counseling. 6 SENATOR SAMPSON: Through you, 7 Mr. President. Well, Senator Saland, I don't 8 want to assume that they know this 9 information. I just want to give them an 10 opportunity to have this information readily 11 available to them. 12 Because later on, if they choose to 13 try to get out of this transaction and say, 14 for whatever reason -- it may not be 15 legitimate reasons -- at least we can say all 16 the financial information was provided to them 17 to go forth with this information. 18 SENATOR SALAND: Again, through 19 you, Mr. President. Is this similar to the 20 redundancy that you had spoken about before 21 with respect to requiring that both attorneys 22 and real estate brokers provide this 23 disclosure? 24 SENATOR SAMPSON: Through you,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. The reason I included it -- 2 why did I include real estate brokers? 3 SENATOR SALAND: No, I'm saying 4 is this an effort at redundancy. Which is 5 really one of your responses a bit earlier to 6 Senator Bonacic. 7 SENATOR SAMPSON: What do you 8 mean by "redundancy"? 9 SENATOR SALAND: An effort to 10 provide yet an additional layer of notice, 11 whether it's really needed or not. 12 SENATOR SAMPSON: Through you, 13 Mr. President. I don't really call it 14 redundancy. It's reinforcement. 15 Because at every single level, as 16 long as they're given this information at the 17 time they entered into the contract, at least 18 they know what information is available to 19 them. When they go to a mortgage broker or 20 they go to a financial institution, at least 21 they're going there with some knowledge in 22 their mind of what's available for them so 23 they can ask the pertinent questions that need 24 to be asked, so when we're at the table and

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(518) 371-8910 1 we're ready to sign or execute these documents 2 there is not a question that "I don't know 3 what I'm doing." Or after you have already 4 signed these loan documents and you're ready 5 to close the deal, all of a sudden they say "I 6 don't want to go forth with this deal." 7 So it basically is not redundancy, 8 it's a form of reinforcing the information so 9 we don't run into a problem later on that has 10 basically caused this whole financial crisis 11 that we have with respect to mortgage 12 foreclosures. 13 SENATOR SALAND: Just an 14 observation before I ask you to yield to yet 15 an additional question. 16 While I have not handled any 17 commercial loans in the past several years, at 18 one time I did a volume of real estate work. 19 And I never came across a commercial lender 20 who really was not business-savvy, was not 21 sophisticated enough to understand what their 22 mortgage was about and what the mortgage meant 23 and what the consequences of the default would 24 be.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And so I laud you for your intent, 2 certainly, but I'm not quite sure that the 3 focus of this bill shouldn't be restrained to 4 residential lenders. 5 On the second page in your notice 6 form, you make reference, at lines 7 and 8, to 7 the right to consult with a home counselor -- 8 excuse me, starting at line 6, at the time of 9 entering into the contract until the execution 10 of financing documents. 11 When would that execution of 12 financing documents occur? 13 SENATOR SAMPSON: Through you, 14 Mr. President. The execution of financial 15 documents could occur at the time of the 16 closing or prior to the closing. 17 SENATOR SALAND: If I may -- 18 thank you, Senator Sampson. 19 First let me thank Senator Sampson 20 for yielding to my questions and then also let 21 me thank Senator Sampson for responding to a 22 number of the issues that were raised in the 23 Judiciary Committee regarding this bill. 24 If I may, however, draw on some of

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(518) 371-8910 1 the comments by Senator Ranzenhofer. The fact 2 of the matter is is that you are imposing an 3 obligation on attorneys and brokers. It's an 4 and/or situation. There is a redundancy 5 there. 6 The question is, you know, who is 7 responsible. Are they both responsible? Why 8 should they both be responsible? Should there 9 not be one port of entry? And should that 10 port of entry not be as part of the mortgage 11 application process, particularly since it's 12 going to be weeks before you close the 13 mortgage. If in fact, as Senator Sampson 14 indicated, the occurrence is the execution of 15 financing documents -- i.e., the closing -- 16 weeks will pass between the time of the 17 initial contact with the bank and that 18 closing. 19 So I would respectfully submit that 20 as laudatory as the intent of this bill is, 21 that the responsibility and/or burden for 22 requiring this disclosure and providing this 23 disclosure has been unfortunately placed on 24 two groups of professionals who will not be

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(518) 371-8910 1 the most appropriate recipients of that 2 burden. In fact, the bank or the lending 3 institution that's going to initiate the 4 process and ultimately go to closing should be 5 where that burden lies. 6 Thank you, Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 8 you, Senator Saland. 9 Senator Klein. 10 SENATOR KLEIN: Thank you, 11 Mr. President. On the bill. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 13 Senator Klein, on the bill. 14 SENATOR KLEIN: I want to commend 15 my colleague Senator Sampson for introducing 16 this very important piece of legislation. We 17 all know the horrible impact the subprime 18 lending crisis has caused not only to the 19 value of our homes but to our national and 20 even international economy. 21 And through hearings that I held on 22 behalf of the Democratic conference over the 23 last year, we saw firsthand how important 24 education really is. Senator Sampson's bill

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(518) 371-8910 1 just gives someone the ability to seek 2 education before they actually enter into a 3 mortgage. It doesn't make it mandatory. 4 As a matter of fact, I think it 5 should be mandatory that if someone is going 6 take out a mortgage -- many you of know, who 7 sat through closings, the mortgage process is 8 a very, very complicated one. Needless to 9 say, if we're dealing with a subprime product, 10 which is even more complicated, certainly the 11 individual should know what they're getting 12 into. 13 Unfortunately, we hear time and 14 time again of people who enter into mortgages, 15 most of them subprime products, who probably 16 shouldn't have had a home in the first 17 place -- they couldn't afford it, but they 18 were really sold a bill of goods. 19 Unfortunately, I've had many more 20 people, though, who probably were able to get 21 their piece of the American dream the right 22 way -- meaning putting down 10 percent, 23 getting a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage -- but 24 they were told time and time again to take

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(518) 371-8910 1 advantage of the subprime product, the very 2 low introductory rate of sometimes 2 or 3 4 percent. 4 And when these individuals were 5 sophisticated enough to ask, well, what do I 6 do when this mortgage resets to 10, 11, 7 12 percent, they were told, time and time 8 again: Don't worry about it. We're in a 9 housing boom. The price of your home is going 10 to continue to go up. When that high rate 11 kicks in, you'll be able to refinance based on 12 your newfound equity. 13 Well, we all know now that never 14 happened. 15 So I think the ability for a 16 homebuyer to sit down with a counselor, find 17 out what the mortgage process is all about, 18 find what they're actually doing -- you want 19 to know something? If more people took 20 advantage of those counselors out there, 21 learned to be educated about this entire 22 process, you know something, we probably 23 wouldn't have the number of foreclosures that 24 we have now.

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(518) 371-8910 1 I just want to share a very 2 disturbing statistic with you. Last year 3 58 percent of the people in New York State 4 whose homes ended in foreclosure had 5 absolutely no contact with their lending 6 institution, no contact with any counselor. 7 They just walked in, got a mortgage in many 8 cases without being educated about the 9 process. That's wrong. 10 And I know all of us should be 11 proud of the fact that last year we passed a 12 very important piece of legislation which I 13 think will go a long way towards making sure 14 this crisis doesn't happen again in New York 15 State. But there are a couple of things that 16 we left out of the equation, and one of them 17 was education. 18 So Senator Sampson's bill I think 19 is something that's so important right now. 20 To give someone the ability or just notify 21 them that they have a right to seek guidance, 22 to seek education, I think is a very, very 23 important thing. Certainly I don't think any 24 of my colleagues would want someone to walk in

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(518) 371-8910 1 and take part in a closing without being 2 educated about the process and not knowing 3 what they're getting into. 4 Again, I support Senator Sampson's 5 bill, and I urge a yes vote. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 7 you, Senator Klein. 8 Senator Winner. 9 SENATOR WINNER: Thank you, 10 Mr. President. Will Senator Sampson yield to 11 a few questions. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 13 Senator Sampson, do you yield? 14 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes. 15 SENATOR WINNER: Senator, you're 16 a very sophisticated and distinguished lawyer. 17 And I know that, as lawyers who have to deal 18 with this type of legislation who are 19 practitioners in the real estate field, 20 they're going to have a little problem. They 21 need to know and understand exactly how this 22 would operate so that they're not running 23 afoul of the rules. 24 I'm just having trouble

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(518) 371-8910 1 understanding how this would particularly 2 work. Because, you know, these statutes are 3 supposed to mean something and supposed to 4 have some logical flow so that you can 5 determine how to operate in your real estate 6 practice. And I would just direct your 7 attention to just the wording in your bill. 8 You start out on line 3, which is 9 the operative sections of the bill, and it 10 just basically says "A loan counseling 11 document disclosure notice shall be attached 12 to all contracts of commercial or residential 13 sale of real property identifying basic 14 homeowner information." Now, that's the 15 sentence, the phrase that drives the rest of 16 the bill. 17 Now, what is basic homeowner 18 information? 19 SENATOR SAMPSON: Through you, 20 Mr. President. Senator Winner, basic 21 homeowner information is providing the 22 prospective homeowner the opportunity, if 23 you're seeking a loan, what are you 24 purchasing, whether the rate is adjustable,

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(518) 371-8910 1 whether it's a fixed rate. 2 If you're looking to refinance, if 3 you're looking to get an equity position out 4 of your property, it's just basically a form 5 that is attached to provide them the 6 information that is necessary for them to ask 7 the next question when they're going to a 8 financial institution and looking for a loan. 9 SENATOR WINNER: Well, why didn't 10 you just say "basic financing information"? 11 "Homeowner information" could be how the 12 plumbing works, the electric works or the 13 heating system works. Because you say, and 14 it's "homeowner information including but not 15 limited to." Why don't you say specifically 16 what you're getting at, which is financing 17 information, rather than saying "basic 18 homeowner information." 19 I mean, we have to deal with 20 boilerplate law here in trying to deal with 21 this. This doesn't make any sense. Why 22 doesn't it relate specifically to financing? 23 SENATOR SAMPSON: Through you, 24 Mr. President. Senator Winner, basically, if

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(518) 371-8910 1 we were only concerned about homeowner 2 information, whether there was plumbing, 3 whether there was piping in the unit, we 4 wouldn't be in this foreclosure crisis that 5 we're in. 6 Basically, you provide them all the 7 information that is possible to them so they 8 can make a rational decision. And to me, all 9 information is relevant, especially when 10 you're engaging in these contracts. 11 SENATOR WINNER: Well, Senator, 12 you agreed with me before, that you said that 13 the phrase "homeowner information" drove the 14 meaning of -- 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Excuse 16 me, Senator Winner. 17 Senator Johnson, why do you rise? 18 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Point of 19 order, Mr. President. 20 Again, I just wish to remind that I 21 think all questions go through you. I think 22 that's how the debate should happen within the 23 body of the Senate. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Winner, are you asking Senator Sampson 2 to yield to another question? 3 SENATOR WINNER: No, I'll speak 4 on the bill. I'll speak on the bill. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Winner, on the bill. 7 SENATOR WINNER: Mr. President, 8 you know, this is not a press release, this 9 proposal here. This is not a bill designed to 10 make a statement about the fact that we all 11 know that the financing crisis in this state 12 and in this country has contributed to the 13 financial collapse of our economy and that the 14 fact of the matter is that we should have 15 proper disclosures as it relates to financing 16 arrangements. 17 But, you know, you just don't get 18 up and say that that's you're going to do and 19 then put a bill in front of us that is so 20 completely ridiculously drafted that it makes 21 no sense as to how it's operating. 22 First of all, you make reference to 23 the fact that you're going to be providing 24 basic homeowner information. Then you

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(518) 371-8910 1 include -- that drives or modifies the whole 2 statute. And then you say that it's going to 3 be applicable to commercial mortgages. Well, 4 "homeowner information" does not modify 5 commercial obligations or commercial 6 mortgages. 7 You also say that you're supposed 8 to attach a form relating to commercial 9 transactions. The form doesn't even mention 10 "commercial." It says that you're going to be 11 referring these people to home loan counselors 12 doing business and that they're all involved 13 with home loans, not with commercial loans. 14 So why are you including commercial 15 in -- why are you putting a form that talks 16 about seeing a home loan counselor when you're 17 getting a commercial loan to go build a 18 shopping center? Now, I talk about dumb, and 19 that is beyond dumb. That is just plain 20 onerous to comply with. You don't have that 21 type of burden placed upon a borrower -- 22 SENATOR SAMPSON: Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Senator Sampson, why do you rise?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SAMPSON: I rise to 2 indicate to Senator Winner there's no problem, 3 but when you start indicating individuals are 4 dumb in a piece of legislation -- 5 SENATOR WINNER: I didn't say 6 that. 7 SENATOR SAMPSON: No, no, no. I 8 think you're going too far. There's a sense 9 of order, decorum and respect here that I have 10 for all our members. But if you want to go 11 down that road, I will go down that road with 12 you. 13 SENATOR WINNER: Is there a point 14 of order to -- 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 16 Senator Winner, Senator Sampson's point is 17 well-taken. 18 Do you wish to continue to speak on 19 the bill? 20 SENATOR WINNER: Yes, I do. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Senator Winner, on the bill. 23 SENATOR WINNER: First of all, I 24 only made reference to the fact of what was

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(518) 371-8910 1 dumb was the fact that this language does not 2 make sense to drive the intent that you wish 3 to drive, and that is to provide protections 4 against homeowners who might get into bad 5 loans. 6 If you want protection against 7 homeowners to get into bad loans, talk about 8 home loans. Don't talk about commercial 9 loans. Don't talk about forms attached to 10 commercial contracts that relate to home loans 11 when it doesn't make any sense. 12 You also state in the bill, on 13 page 2, that you understand that -- now you're 14 advising a borrower who has signed this 15 contract, who has signed this notice that says 16 that he -- that "I understand that I have the 17 right to consult with a home loan counselor at 18 the time of entering into the contract until 19 the execution of the financing documents." 20 Where in anybody's imagination does it give 21 you that right to do that in this bill? It 22 doesn't make any reference to that whatsoever. 23 You're not giving anybody the right 24 to impair the contract that they signed. What

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(518) 371-8910 1 if the contract had no contingencies with 2 regard to financing? What if the contract was 3 involving a commercial property? There's no 4 right that you've given to a borrower to be 5 able to say "Stop the closing, we're not going 6 forward, I'm going to consult with my home 7 loan counselor." That's ridiculous. That is 8 not what the bill says. 9 So why don't you take this thing 10 back, redraft it, make it a disclosure 11 information bill that relates to homeownership 12 requiring that there be better information 13 provided to borrowers as it relates to real 14 estate financing contracts for home ownership. 15 Leave commercial people out of it. Don't have 16 the -- don't mislead people that you're giving 17 them rights that they don't have. And give 18 the real estate industry -- lawyers, title 19 companies and all that are impacted by this 20 type of legislation -- better direction as to 21 what they're supposed to do. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 23 you, Senator Winner. 24 Senator Thompson, why do you rise?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR THOMPSON: I just wanted 2 to ask, through you, Mr. President, if Senator 3 Winner would yield for just one question. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 5 Senator Winner, do you yield for a question? 6 SENATOR WINNER: Yes. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 8 Senator yields. 9 SENATOR THOMPSON: Through you, 10 Mr. President, if Senator Winner could say 11 whether or not any businesspeople or people 12 who own property in the state who live in that 13 property actually have their property in their 14 business name, their residential property is 15 owned in the name of their business. 16 SENATOR WINNER: Well, I would 17 presume they do. 18 SENATOR THOMPSON: Okay. One 19 last question. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Winner, do you continue to yield? 22 SENATOR WINNER: Certainly. 23 SENATOR THOMPSON: So, you know, 24 I do have a number of friends who are

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(518) 371-8910 1 contractors and developers, who are also 2 insurance agents, and a couple that are 3 physicians that actually do have their name -- 4 their residential property is in the name of 5 their business. 6 So I don't think there's a 7 one-size-fits-all, as my colleague is 8 suggesting. 9 And while I understand his 10 passionate concern, I think we must also 11 remember that there are indeed many 12 New Yorkers who run small businesses, and some 13 with big businesses, who actually have their 14 residential property in a commercial name that 15 they sleep in each and every day. Some people 16 actually finance their residential property 17 with their business, for a variety of reasons 18 that many of us know. 19 So I just wanted to say I know he 20 was really passionate. I respect his passion. 21 But I think that my colleague Senator Sampson 22 has introduced a good bill, and we should 23 respect that and also at all times remain 24 collegial to our colleagues, whether we agree

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(518) 371-8910 1 or disagree. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator Thompson, did you have an additional 4 question for Senator Winner? 5 SENATOR THOMPSON: No, I'm fine. 6 Thank you. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 8 Senator Savino, on the bill. 9 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you, 10 Mr. President. 11 First, I want to commend Senator 12 Sampson for bringing this bill forward. 13 And as it was stated by some of my 14 colleagues, we did discuss this at great 15 length in the Judiciary Committee, and many of 16 the points that were raised were well-taken 17 and I believe that the legislation as it is 18 before us now has been changed to reflect some 19 of the very valid points that were brought up, 20 particularly by Senator Bonacic and 21 Senator Ranzenhofer at that meeting. 22 But I think we're getting carried 23 away. Essentially, all this bill does is 24 require that information be provided to

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(518) 371-8910 1 people. 2 Now, I've shared with some of my 3 colleagues before that the most terrifying 4 thing I have ever done in my life was to buy a 5 house the first time. It is the biggest 6 commitment a person will make. Most mortgages 7 last longer than most marriages in this state. 8 And when you go to a closing, it is incredibly 9 scary, because it's like walking into the 10 middle of a movie where everybody knows what's 11 happening but you. And you are the person who 12 is responsible for every paper that you sign 13 there that day. 14 And I tell people all the time if I 15 had not had the benefit of, one, some money to 16 put down on a house, two, my own attorney that 17 was provided to me through my legal benefit 18 fund, and a SONYMA mortgage, I could have very 19 easily fallen victim to a subprime loan like 20 millions of Americans have. It is a very 21 complicated process. 22 And all this bill says is that at 23 the point of the signing of the contract that 24 you attach a single piece of paper that tells

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(518) 371-8910 1 people that these are the questions that you 2 might want to ask. You don't have to, but 3 these are the things that you should ask 4 questions about. 5 And it's not uncommon for us to 6 attach pieces of paper to residential 7 contracts of sale. We do it with the 8 lead-paint disclosure law. Every lawyer that 9 practices real estate law in New York State 10 knows when you hand a contract to the person, 11 attached to it is the lead-paint disclosure 12 form. This is just another piece of paper 13 with instruction and information -- excuse me, 14 with instruction and information -- 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 16 Senator Winner, why do you rise? 17 SENATOR SAVINO: -- that people 18 can avail themselves to if they so choose. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Excuse 20 me, Senator. 21 Senator Winner, why do you rise? 22 SENATOR WINNER: Will Senator 23 Savino yield to a question? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Savino, do you yield? 2 SENATOR SAVINO: Sure. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 4 Senator yields. 5 SENATOR WINNER: Senator, you 6 indicated that this is a simple form to attach 7 to a residential real estate contract. Can 8 you tell me why you should attach this form 9 for the sale of the Empire State Building? 10 SENATOR SAVINO: That is -- 11 because you know, Senator -- through you, 12 Mr. President. Let's assume that the person 13 who has the money to buy the Empire State 14 Building may not be the most sophisticated 15 buyer. He may just have a lot of money. So 16 all we're providing to him, Senator Winner, is 17 a list of people that he might want to consult 18 in case he's not that bright. 19 SENATOR WINNER: Would Senator 20 Savino yield? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Senator, do you continue to yield? 23 SENATOR SAVINO: Yes, I do. 24 SENATOR WINNER: Senator Savino,

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(518) 371-8910 1 the Empire State Building buyer I understand 2 is not going to be very sophisticated, only a 3 billion dollars or so or maybe a few. 4 But notwithstanding that, how about 5 Wal-Mart? Do you think that Wal-Mart buying a 6 piece of property, you know, Wal-Mart 7 Corporation ought to have that homeowner 8 disclosure form attached to that contract? 9 SENATOR SAVINO: Through you, 10 Mr. President. I can't believe I'm going to 11 say that, but I think even Wal-Mart is 12 entitled to a little financial literacy. 13 Thank you. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 15 you, Senator Savino. 16 Senator Schneiderman, on the bill. 17 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 18 Mr. President. 19 I also want to rise and commend our 20 Judiciary chair, Senator Sampson, for bringing 21 this bill forward. 22 And I must admit I find that a lot 23 of the protests about this are really picking 24 out -- missing the forest for the trees.

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(518) 371-8910 1 This is a very straightforward 2 requirement that -- it's not something that 3 overly burdens brokers or lawyers. And I 4 really hope that everyone gets the message 5 with this bill that we've had a long period of 6 time where people of modest means in New York 7 have been taken advantage of. There are 8 people who have benefited from the housing 9 bubble and from the expansion of the use of 10 complex, misleading, and often very 11 destructive forms of mortgage loans. 12 This is a bill that in a very -- 13 this is not overregulation. It simply 14 provides notification to a purchaser. It's 15 like the red flag to say: Here are things 16 that might be coming your way. And it has a 17 very modest list of some of the kinds of 18 mortgages that people should watch out for -- 19 interest-only mortgages, negative amortization 20 loans, this sort of thing -- so that people 21 will at least have that signal to say wait a 22 minute. 23 You know, it doesn't -- does it 24 solve the mortgage crisis? No. But is it an

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(518) 371-8910 1 absolutely prudent, simple step that we can 2 take to ensure that New Yorkers have every 3 opportunity to think twice before entering 4 into a loan that they shouldn't enter into? 5 Yes. 6 And I'd suggest that, since the way 7 this is structured it requires that the 8 disclosure form be provided as a part of a 9 contract of sale, it doesn't double-burden 10 lawyers and brokers, as has been suggested. 11 The point is that someone, one of 12 the people who's trying to bring this 13 transaction to fruition is going to have to 14 make sure that the would-be purchaser gets 15 this document, because otherwise the person 16 could conceivably get out of the deal. So the 17 broker or the lawyer, they'll make sure that 18 somebody has provided this document. It 19 provides a little bit of a warning. 20 But I would suggest that, you know, 21 we have had too many years, I'm afraid, of 22 concern for those who profit from the 23 financial misfortunes of others. The mortgage 24 market was out of control. Senator Klein has

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(518) 371-8910 1 mentioned that he held hearings. The 2 overwhelming majority of people in New York 3 State who were victimized by these 4 questionable mortgages were in fact eligible 5 for regular fixed-rate mortgages. They were 6 told and they were sold on other products. 7 So I think Senator Sampson's bill 8 is an excellent step towards, you know, sanity 9 in this area. And again, this is the most 10 modest type of step. This is not where you 11 get people coming in and saying we need 12 massive government regulation and, you know, 13 we're going to have a very intrusive system. 14 This is a very modest provision. It simply 15 provides people with a red flag, with the 16 warning. It's got language that, you know, is 17 easily understood. 18 And I really -- frankly, you know, 19 if Tishman Speyer is selling the Empire State 20 Building to Harry Helmsley, I'm not really 21 that worried about whether or not they get 22 this counseling. This is broadly drafted to 23 make sure that anyone who is a person of 24 modest means who might be entering into a

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(518) 371-8910 1 document which could be for a residence, it 2 could be for a modest commercial property, has 3 notice that they should take another look and 4 that there is counseling available. 5 So I commend Senator Sampson for 6 this. I think that we've had too much time in 7 this country and this state worrying about the 8 bankers and not about the people who were 9 abused by the mortgages. And as we move 10 forward into a new era, I think this is a good 11 step in the right direction to make sure that 12 we err on the side of protecting consumers. 13 Thank you, Senator Sampson, for 14 bringing this bill forward. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 16 you, Senator Schneiderman. 17 Senator Klein. 18 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, on 19 behalf of the sponsor, can we lay this bill 20 aside for the day. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 22 bill is laid aside for the day. 23 Senator Klein, that completes the 24 controversial reading of the calendar.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 2 can we please return to the order of motions 3 and resolutions. 4 I believe Senator Thompson has a 5 resolution at the desk. I ask that it be read 6 in its entirety and move for its immediate 7 adoption. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 9 Motions and resolutions. 10 The Secretary will read. 11 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 12 Thompson, Legislative Resolution Number 385, 13 memorializing the deaths of the passengers and 14 crew members of Continental Airlines 15 Flight 3407, as well as one resident of 16 Clarence Center, New York. 17 Whereas -- 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Excuse 19 me. The Secretary will read a resolution that 20 memorializes the passing of those who have 21 lost their lives in the airline disaster. We 22 would appreciate silence for that process. 23 Thank you. 24 The Secretary will continue to

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(518) 371-8910 1 read. 2 THE SECRETARY: "WHEREAS, This 3 Legislative Body recognizes the tragedy of the 4 crash of Continental Airlines Flight 3407 on 5 Thursday, February 12, 2009, in Clarence 6 Center, New York, and the devastation and 7 unfortunate loss of life sustained by the 8 victims and their loved ones; and 9 "WHEREAS, Continental Airlines 10 Flight 3407 crashed into a home near Buffalo, 11 New York, taking the lives of all 44 12 passengers, five crew members, and one person 13 in the home; and 14 "WHEREAS, The passengers on board 15 Continental Airlines Flight 3407 from the 16 Buffalo region were: David Borner, Linda 17 Davidson, Ron Davidson, Alison Des Forges, 18 John Fiore, Brad Green, Zhaofang Guo, Steve 19 Johnson, Kevin Johnston, Ellyce Kausner, 20 Nicole Korczykowski, Jerome Krauski, Brian 21 Kuklewicz, Bethany Kushner, Donald McDonald, 22 Dawn Monachino, Jennifer Neill, Mary Pettys, 23 Darren Tolsma, Susan Wehele and Ernest West; 24 and

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(518) 371-8910 1 "WHEREAS, The other passengers on 2 board Continental Airlines Flight 3407 were: 3 Mary Abraham, George Abu-Karem, Larry Beutel, 4 Beverly Eckert, Ron Gonzalez, Ruth Harel-Katz, 5 Georges Karm, Sean Lang, Madeline Loftus, 6 Lorin Maurer, Coleman Mellet, Dawn Mossop, 7 Donald Mossop, Shawn Mossop, Gerry Niewood, 8 Jonathan Perry, Ferris Reid, Julie Ries, 9 John Roberts, Kristen Safran, Jean Smecz, 10 Shibin Yao and Clay Yarbor; and 11 "WHEREAS, The crew members of 12 Continental Airlines Flight 3407 were: Flight 13 Attendants Donna Prisco and Matilda Quintero; 14 First Officer Rebecca Shaw; Captain Marvin 15 Renslow; and Captain (off duty) Joseph 16 Zuffoletto; and Douglas Wielinski was in his 17 home when the plane went down; and 18 "WHEREAS, One of the passengers, 19 Beverly Eckert, was the widow of Sean Rooney, 20 a Buffalo native who lost his life in the 21 September 11, 2001, terrorist attack on the 22 World Trade Center; and 23 "WHEREAS, Four people were injured 24 at the crash site, including a mother and

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(518) 371-8910 1 daughter inside the house that was hit. In 2 addition, two firefighters received medical 3 attention for smoke inhalation and minor 4 injuries; and 5 "WHEREAS, Continental Connection 6 Flight 3407, a 74-seat turboprop, was en route 7 from Newark, New Jersey, to Buffalo, New York, 8 when it went down around 10:20 p.m., 9 approximately seven miles from Buffalo Niagara 10 International Airport. All possible causes of 11 the crash of Flight 3407 are being 12 investigated; and 13 "WHEREAS, On behalf of the people 14 of the State of New York, the members of this 15 Legislative Body offer their most sincere, 16 heartfelt condolences to the families and 17 friends of the passengers and crew members, 18 and the family of the one person on the 19 ground, who lost their lives in the crash of 20 Continental Airlines Flight 3407; now, 21 therefore, be it 22 "RESOLVED, That this Legislative 23 Body pause in its deliberations to memorialize 24 the deaths of the passengers and crew members

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(518) 371-8910 1 of Continental Airlines Flight 3407, as well 2 as one resident of the house destroyed in 3 Clarence Center, New York; and be it further 4 "RESOLVED, That copies of this 5 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted 6 to the families of the victims of Continental 7 Airlines Flight 3407." 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 9 Senator Thompson, on the resolution. 10 SENATOR THOMPSON: First, 11 Mr. President, I want to start by thanking my 12 colleague Senator Mike Ranzenhofer, who 13 invited Pastor Randy Milleville from Clarence 14 Center Zion Lutheran Church to do today's 15 prayer. So I want to thank Senator 16 Ranzenhofer for inviting him here. 17 But let me also just emphasize as 18 well that, you know, when I was home watching 19 the news that night, it was a really tragic, 20 tragic feeling just to see it come up on the 21 news. But this traumatic and unexpected event 22 has once again shown Western New Yorkers that 23 they have deep compassion, sympathy, and many 24 people have come out in various ways to show

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(518) 371-8910 1 their support for the families who lost so 2 many individuals. 3 With the loss of 50 lives, many of 4 which had ties to Western New York -- a number 5 of them who actually did reside in our 6 district -- experts have advised that this is 7 the deadliest crash in aviation in the 8 continental United States in the last two or 9 three years. 10 Over this weekend, as recent as 11 yesterday, I attended a number of funerals. 12 And there were many heavy hearts and 13 overwhelming support for the grief-stricken 14 families. And many of the family members 15 really were -- it was very difficult for them. 16 In fact, whether it was yesterday 17 at Alison Des Forges' funeral, who was an 18 activist in the peace movement in Western 19 New York and also internationally, with the 20 human rights campaign -- it was very, very 21 difficult to be there. And to see so many 22 dynamic people who were on that plane to 23 really have to lose their lives so suddenly 24 was very, very tragic. Very tragic.

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(518) 371-8910 1 One last thing I would say. On 2 Saturday -- I do a lot with the military 3 organizations in the district, and so I had 4 the opportunity to go to the funeral for a 5 gentleman from Grand Island, his name was John 6 Fiore, who actually grew up in Niagara Falls 7 but he moved to Grand Island. But he still 8 maintained a lot of those roots. And he was a 9 retired Air Force sergeant. 10 And many people's hearts were heavy 11 that day. I'll never forget the sight of his 12 son, who was a very muscular gentleman with a 13 short haircut as well, very, very distraught 14 that day, unprepared for that reality. 15 And so I just say that our hearts 16 are heavy for them. You never know when 17 things like this will happen. But I think 18 it's the right thing for us to say a prayer 19 for all of the families. 20 And, in addition, to the people who 21 live in all of Western New York and in the 22 state, I'm sure that all of my colleagues had 23 folks calling and asking them about the 24 situation whether you live in Western New York

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(518) 371-8910 1 or any other part of the state. But people 2 were very concerned. And any time something 3 of that nature happens, it doesn't just happen 4 to one person in New York, it happens to all 5 New Yorkers. 6 Thank you. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 8 you, Senator Thompson. 9 Senator Ranzenhofer. 10 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Thank you. 11 This is probably -- not probably, 12 is the most tragic day in my memory that 13 happened in Western New York, in the heart of 14 my community that I've lived in for over 15 30 years, just a few miles from my home. 16 I did not learn about this terrible 17 tragedy until the following morning, when I 18 saw it on TV. And we immediately went over to 19 a neighboring community, with Senator 20 Stachowski and some of the other 21 representatives. The Governor flew in to meet 22 with some of the families of the victims of 23 Flight 3407. 24 There's nothing that prepares you

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(518) 371-8910 1 for meeting with victims of -- who have just 2 lost their loved ones in such a tragic way. 3 And on that morning it was the families that 4 had lost loved ones, you know, were very sad, 5 but they were happy to see that there were 6 people there that cared about them that and 7 that they were being treated very well. 8 The Governor flew in immediately 9 that morning. I had an opportunity to talk 10 with a couple who had lost their daughter who 11 was expecting their first child. It was just 12 a very, very sad event. 13 It's even sadder when you know some 14 of the people that were on that plane. There 15 was a young girl in law school down in 16 Florida, in her second year, who had worked me 17 a couple of years ago as an intern. My 18 daughter's soccer coach, who I had known when 19 he grew up and lived about 10, 12 houses from 20 me for many, many years, was on that plane. 21 And it really does tear a community apart. 22 The response to the tragedy really 23 does bring out the best in people and brought 24 out the best of those in Western New York.

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(518) 371-8910 1 The fire company is probably less than a 2 hundred yards away from where the plane went 3 down. And when you go to the site, you just 4 can't understand and believe how the plane 5 just hit one house and didn't take out other 6 houses or the rest of the neighborhood. It 7 could have been even more tragic to the 8 neighborhood than it was. 9 But the Clarence Center Volunteer 10 Fire Company was tremendous in their response. 11 And there were many fire companies that 12 responded to put out the fire, which lasted 13 almost a full day. It lasted till -- the next 14 day, it was still smoldering. 15 The Red Cross was tremendous in 16 providing the help that they did. The 17 New York State Police, the Erie County 18 Sheriff's Department, National Traffic Safety 19 Board. There were just so many, so many 20 people that were participating. The Erie 21 County Health Department. Many counselors. 22 There were many church services for the 23 community to come together in their grieving. 24 And as we speak today, the scars

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(518) 371-8910 1 are still there. They're readying the area 2 for people to return to their homes. The 3 people that live in the neighborhood, you 4 know, are still reluctant to want to go back 5 to that site. The memories are still there 6 even though everything has been plowed over 7 and smoothed out to make it look nice. 8 It's a day which our community will 9 never forget, both the tragedy and how the 10 community came together. I think the Reverend 11 in his prayer spoke of what this community is 12 grieving about right now. And it will take a 13 long time. It will take a very long time to 14 put the community back together again. But we 15 are a resilient community, we are a very 16 strong community, and we'll be able to do 17 that. 18 Thank you, Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 20 you, Senator Ranzenhofer. 21 Are there any other Senators who 22 wish to be heard on the resolution? 23 Seeing none, the question is on the 24 resolution. All in favor signify by saying

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(518) 371-8910 1 aye. 2 (Response of "Aye.") 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Opposed, nay. 5 (No response.) 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 7 resolution is adopted. 8 At the request of the sponsor, the 9 resolution is open for multisponsorship. Any 10 member wishing not to multisponsor this 11 resolution should so inform the desk. 12 At this time would all those 13 present in the chamber and in the gallery 14 please rise and bow your heads with me for a 15 moment of silence in honor of the lives lost 16 in the crash of Continental Express Flight 17 3407 on February 12, 2009. 18 (Whereupon, the assemblage stood 19 and respected a moment of silence.) 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Klein. 22 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 23 would you please recognize Senator Ruth 24 Hassell-Thompson for an announcement at this

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(518) 371-8910 1 time. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator Hassell-Thompson. 4 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank 5 you, Senator. 6 Mr. President, there will be a 7 meeting of the Majority Conference in the 8 Majority Conference, Room 332, immediately 9 following today's session. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: There 11 will be a meeting of the Majority Conference 12 in the Majority Conference Room, 332, 13 immediately following session. 14 Senator Klein. 15 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, I 16 move to adjourn until Tuesday, February 24th, 17 at 3:00 p.m. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator Klein, seeing no further business at 20 the desk, on motion, the Senate stands 21 adjourned until Tuesday, February 24th, at 22 3:00 p.m. 23 (Whereupon, at 4:25 p.m., the 24 Senate adjourned.)

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(518) 371-8910