Tuesday, March 31, 2009

1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE 2 3 4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 March 31, 2009 11 11:27 a.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR DAVID J. VALESKY, Acting President 19 ANGELO J. APONTE, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24

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(518) 371-8910 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 Senate will please come to order. 4 I ask everyone present to please 5 rise and recite with me the Pledge of 6 Allegiance. 7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: In the 10 absence of clergy, may we bow our heads in a 11 moment of silence. 12 (Whereupon, the assemblage 13 respected a moment of silence.) 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 15 reading of the Journal. 16 The Secretary will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 18 Monday, March 30, the Senate met pursuant to 19 adjournment. The Journal of Sunday, March 29, 20 was read and approved. On motion, Senate 21 adjourned. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Without objection, the Journal stands approved 24 as read.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Presentation of petitions. 2 Messages from the Assembly. 3 Messages from the Governor. 4 Reports of standing committees. 5 Reports of select committees. 6 Communications and reports from 7 state officers. 8 Motions and resolutions. 9 Senator Klein. 10 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 11 Senator Foley has a resolution at the desk. I 12 ask that the title of the resolution be read, 13 move for its immediate adoption, and allow 14 Senator Foley to speak on the resolution. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 16 Secretary will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: By Senator Foley, 18 Resolution Number 973, memorializing Governor 19 David A. Paterson to declare April 2009 as 20 Financial Literacy Month in the State of 21 New York. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Foley, on the resolution. 24 SENATOR FOLEY: Thank you,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. 2 This resolution designates 3 April 2009 as Financial Literacy Month and 4 highlights the important of financial literacy 5 and encourages all New Yorkers to increase 6 their understanding of saving, investing, and 7 credit choices. 8 Financial literacy empowers 9 New Yorkers to make wise financial decisions. 10 New York State consumers face many choices 11 which affect their financial future. Every 12 day, consumers conduct some type of financial 13 transaction that requires well-informed and 14 educated decision-making, whether it has to do 15 with reconciling credit card statements, 16 securing affordable financing for a new or 17 used car, saving for their children's college 18 education and retirement, or starting a family 19 business. 20 As a statewide public awareness 21 effort, Financial Literacy Month is a perfect 22 opportunity for businesses and organizations 23 to show their current financial literacy 24 efforts and to become involved in this

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(518) 371-8910 1 important effort to make financial literacy 2 education a priority throughout our state. 3 Businesses and organizations can 4 partner together or individually to offer free 5 workshops, classes and other types of 6 community events. They can also contribute 7 resources to facilitate and promote events to 8 help consumers learn to manage their personal 9 finances. 10 And just take this statistic alone, 11 Mr. President. Last year the U.S. consumer 12 debt totaled $2.57 trillion, and credit card 13 debt alone exceeded $976 billion. And during 14 the third quarter of 2008, over 14 percent of 15 disposable personal income went towards paying 16 the interest on personal debt. 17 I believe, Mr. President, that many 18 of the problems that have been brought to my 19 committee, as chair of the Banking Committee, 20 could be avoided if people had a more sound 21 financial education. Improved financial 22 literacy across New York State not only would 23 help people create a more solid financial 24 situation for themselves and for their

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(518) 371-8910 1 families, it will also reduce the number of 2 issues that necessitate legislative or 3 regulatory solutions. 4 I would say, in closing, that this 5 particular memorializing resolution declaring 6 April Financial Literacy Month has been a 7 long-held tradition as to whomever the chair 8 of Banking is. In the past 20 years, ranking 9 member and former chair Senator Hugh Farley 10 has sponsored this resolution. He cosponsors 11 the resolution with me today, signifying a 12 bipartisan approach to something that's very, 13 very important to our state and to our 14 country, the absolute imperative and need to 15 improve our financial literacy throughout our 16 state to help our citizens with their 17 finances. 18 And this is one way that we can 19 help, by highlighting the fact that April is 20 Financial Literacy Month, and to help, working 21 with those in the private sector, along with 22 us in the public sector, to empower our 23 New York State residents through helping them 24 with such issues as how to, for instance,

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(518) 371-8910 1 better prepare their own personal finances. 2 So it's a very important issue, 3 Mr. Chairman, and I look forward to working in 4 a bipartisan fashion in these remaining months 5 to help our New York State citizens with their 6 finances. 7 Thank you very much. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 9 you, Senator Foley. 10 Senator Klein, on the resolution. 11 SENATOR KLEIN: Thank you, 12 Mr. President. 13 I want to praise my colleague, the 14 chairman of the Banking Committee, Senator 15 Brian Foley, for bringing up this resolution 16 today on Financial Literacy Month. Clearly 17 everyone knows the problems we've seen because 18 of the subprime lending crisis. And 19 unfortunately, I'm always bothered when I 20 watch some of the talking heads on some of the 21 business channels or read some of the 22 financial journals blaming the poor homeowner 23 who got into a mortgage they couldn't afford. 24 I think a lot of that could have

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(518) 371-8910 1 been prevented if we had education 2 requirements. I know my colleague Senator 3 Sampson has a piece of legislation which 4 hopefully we're going to pass quickly, because 5 one of the things I think we need to do is be 6 very clear. The subprime lending crisis was 7 not caused by the small first-time homeowner; 8 it was caused by people who really should have 9 known better than the mortgage that people 10 were entering into was over their head and 11 very, very complicated. 12 I think one of the things that I 13 learned, in having hearings all over the state 14 on this issue, is time and time again you had 15 people who didn't really know the intricacies 16 of the mortgage process. Most lawyers, when 17 they go to a closing, don't always know the 18 intricacies of the mortgage process. 19 So I think we have to do a lot more 20 to make sure that when someone goes to 21 purchase a home they know the specifics of the 22 deal they're getting into. 23 It's also very interesting, one of 24 the things that we saw last year is that

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(518) 371-8910 1 53 percent of the people who lost their homes 2 due to foreclosure had absolutely no contact 3 with their lending institution. So there was 4 certainly no way that the individual could 5 modify their mortgage or really learn how to 6 improve the terms they got into. 7 So again, I want to praise Senator 8 Foley. Besides actually recognizing Financial 9 Literacy Month, I know we have to do a lot 10 more to make sure it becomes statute and 11 protect homeowners and really protect anyone 12 to make sure they know what they bargained 13 for. 14 Again, I thank Senator Foley. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 16 you, Senator Klein. 17 Are there any other Senators who 18 wish to be heard on the resolution? 19 Seeing none, the question is on the 20 resolution. All in favor signify by saying 21 aye. 22 (Response of "Aye.") 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Opposed, nay.

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(518) 371-8910 1 (No response.) 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 resolution is adopted. 4 Senator Foley has requested that 5 the resolution be open for cosponsorship. Any 6 member wishing not to cosponsor the resolution 7 should so inform the desk. 8 Senator Klein. 9 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 10 Senator Squadron has a resolution at the desk. 11 I ask that the title be read and move for its 12 immediate adoption and give Senator Squadron 13 the opportunity to speak on the said 14 resolution. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 16 Secretary will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 18 Squadron, Legislative Resolution Number 1131, 19 mourning the death of Robert S. Guskind, 20 talented, journalist, author, photographer 21 editor and devoted member of his community. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Squadron, on the resolution. 24 SENATOR SQUADRON: Thank you,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. 2 I rise to honor the life and the 3 work of Robert S. Guskind, who died just a 4 couple of weeks ago, tragically, at the age of 5 50. Bob Guskind was a member of the Carroll 6 Gardens community and a leader in the entire 7 Brooklyn community. He was a journalist who 8 worked at the Washington Post, at the National 9 Journal, wrote a book, and also, in recent 10 years, was a blogger. He took this new form 11 of communication and really took it to a new 12 level. 13 Blogs in parts of Brooklyn are 14 about as active and there are about as many of 15 them as anywhere in the country. And Bob 16 Guskind's blog, Gowanus Lounge, was as good as 17 any blog certainly in the Borough of Brooklyn 18 and I would say anywhere in our nation. 19 What he did through this blog was 20 he was able to take community activism, take 21 community concerns and describe them, distill 22 them, and distribute them in ways that never 23 could have happened without him. He did it 24 with incredible wit, he did it with

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(518) 371-8910 1 incisiveness. And on any issue, whether it 2 was the building development across the street 3 from my own home or the rezoning of the entire 4 Gowanus neighborhood or the broader question 5 of what's happening as Brooklyn changes so 6 quickly, he was able to bring to light and 7 bring images and words that brought the 8 community together even when we disagreed with 9 him. 10 He often wasn't gentle in his 11 writing; he was often brutal. He was always 12 interesting and brought incredible value to 13 the issues that matter throughout Brooklyn. 14 In fact, his blog was so impressive that he 15 was hired by Curbed of New York City, one of 16 the biggest blogs in the entire City of 17 New York, to write on neighborhood issues, to 18 write on questions of development and growth. 19 I didn't always agree with Bob 20 Guskind, and he didn't always agree with me. 21 But the fact that Gowanus Lounge existed, the 22 fact that he was able to bring his perspective 23 to Curbed, is something that has made me a 24 better public servant, has made my community

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(518) 371-8910 1 stronger, has made the entire Brooklyn 2 community more educated and more empowered. 3 And his loss is a great loss for 4 all of us in Brooklyn. I think it's a great 5 loss also for the expanding and significant 6 blogosphere. You know, he mastered this, he 7 mastered this form early on. And whether it 8 was releasing plans that we never would have 9 seen or writing an essay that moved all of us, 10 we're going to miss him sorely. 11 So I wanted to take a moment for 12 this body to pause and honor the life and the 13 work of Bob Guskind, what he brought to all of 14 us, and the gap that we're now going to have 15 to fill as a community and as blogosphere 16 overall. 17 Thank you very much. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 19 you, Senator Squadron. 20 Are there any other Senators who 21 wish to be heard? 22 Seeing none, the question is on the 23 resolution. All in favor signify by saying 24 aye.

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(518) 371-8910 1 (Response of "Aye.") 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Opposed, nay. 4 (No response.) 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 6 resolution is adopted. 7 And the Senate, in passing the 8 resolution, mourns the death of Robert S. 9 Guskind. 10 Senator Squadron has also asked 11 that this resolution be open for 12 cosponsorship. Any member not willing to 13 cosponsor the resolution should inform the 14 desk. 15 Senator Klein. 16 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 17 Senator McDonald has a resolution at the desk. 18 I ask that the resolution be read in its 19 entirety and move for its immediate adoption. 20 I would ask Senator McDonald to 21 speak on the resolution, but as you can see, 22 Senator McDonald is not here. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 24 Secretary will read.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 2 McDonald, Legislative Resolution Number 870, 3 commemorating the 32nd Annual South Glens 4 Falls High School Marathon Dance. 5 "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this 6 Legislative Body to recognize and pay tribute 7 to those young people within the great Empire 8 State who have made strong contributions to 9 their communities and who serve as role models 10 for their peers; and 11 "WHEREAS, Attendant to such 12 concern, and in full accord with its 13 longstanding traditions, this Legislative Body 14 is justly proud to commemorate the 32nd Annual 15 South Glens Falls High School Marathon Dance; 16 and 17 "WHEREAS, A tradition in the 18 community, the South Glens Falls High School 19 Marathon Dance began in 1978, when about 20 40 dancers raised money for the Moreau 21 Emergency Squad. This year, there were 701 22 dancers and over 200 community volunteers who 23 supplied food, prizes and services; and 24 "WHEREAS, The four student cochairs

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(518) 371-8910 1 of the 32nd Annual South Glens Falls High 2 School Marathon Dance were seniors Taylor 3 Bulman, Brycen Waters and Nicole Valastro, and 4 sophomore Kelly McFarlane. They were advised 5 by faculty members Jody Sheldon and Tom Myott 6 and supported by Superintendent Dr. James 7 McCarthy; and 8 "WHEREAS, The theme of the 32nd 9 South Glens Falls High School Marathon Dance 10 was 'Marathon is out of this world,' and a new 11 record of over $260,000 was raised for 12 22 recipients, including the MD Anderson 13 Cancer Center in Houston, Texas, where retired 14 teacher Mike Nolan is being treated, pushing 15 the total raised by the event to over 16 $2 million; and 17 "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this 18 Legislative Body that when young people of 19 such noble aims and accomplishments are 20 brought to our attention, they should be 21 celebrated and recognized by all the citizens 22 of the great State of New York; and 23 "WHEREAS, In light of their 24 commitment, dedication, and successful

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(518) 371-8910 1 efforts, it is the sense of this Legislative 2 Body to extend its highest commendation to 3 South Glens Falls High School and all of the 4 participants at its 32nd Annual Marathon 5 Dance; now, therefore, be it 6 "RESOLVED, That this Legislative 7 Body pause in its deliberations to commemorate 8 the 32nd Annual South Glens Falls High School 9 Marathon Dance; and be it further 10 "RESOLVED, That a copy of this 11 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted 12 to South Glens Falls High School." 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 14 question is on the resolution. All in favor 15 signify by saying aye. 16 (Response of "Aye.") 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 18 Opposed, nay. 19 (No response.) 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 21 resolution is adopted. 22 Senator Klein. 23 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, as 24 you know, we're going to pass our budget

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(518) 371-8910 1 today, an on-time budget. We are waiting for 2 our colleagues on the other side of the aisle. 3 So until then, can we please stand at ease. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 5 Senate will stand at ease. 6 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 7 ease at 11:42 a.m.) 8 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened 9 at 1:38 p.m.) 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 11 Senator Klein. 12 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 13 can we stand at ease until 6:00 p.m. this 14 evening, please. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 16 Senate will stand at ease until 6:00 p.m. 17 SENATOR KLEIN: Excuse me, 18 Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 20 Senator Klein. 21 SENATOR KLEIN: Can we stand at 22 ease until 3 o'clock. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 24 Senate will stand at ease until 3:00 p.m.

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(518) 371-8910 1 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 2 ease at 1:39 p.m.) 3 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened 4 at 3:15 p.m.) 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 6 Senate will now return to the order of motions 7 and resolutions. 8 Senator Klein. 9 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 10 may we at this time take up Senator 11 Montgomery's resolution. I ask that the title 12 be read and move for its immediate adoption, 13 and give Senator Montgomery the opportunity to 14 speak on the said resolution. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 16 Secretary will read. 17 Could we have some quiet in the 18 chamber, please, so that we can hear the 19 Secretary read the resolution. 20 The Secretary will read. 21 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 22 Montgomery, Legislative Resolution Number 23 1132, honoring Lynn Nottage for her 24 outstanding play Ruined, which just completed

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(518) 371-8910 1 a successful run at the Manhattan Theatre 2 Club. 3 "WHEREAS, The arts, in whatever 4 form depicted, are central to human 5 expression. They are truly a universal 6 language, and their contribution to the 7 development of friendship and understanding 8 among all peoples cannot be overestimated; and 9 "WHEREAS, The history, the 10 heritage, and the lives of the people of all 11 countries and all cultures are portrayed in 12 their music, dance and literature. The art 13 and the act of sharing them enriches us 14 altogether; and 15 "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this 16 Legislative Body to commend those individuals 17 of historic and artistic significance whose 18 creative talents have contributed to the 19 cultural enrichment of our communities and our 20 nation; and 21 "WHEREAS, Attendant to such 22 concern, and in full accord with its 23 longstanding traditions, this Legislative Body 24 is justly proud to honor Lynn Nottage for her

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(518) 371-8910 1 outstanding play Ruined, which just completed 2 a successful run at the Manhattan Theatre 3 Club; and 4 "WHEREAS, A world premiere 5 coproduction with the Goodman Theater, Ruined 6 began previews at the Manhattan Theatre Club 7 on January 21, 2009, and ran through March 29, 8 2009; and 9 "WHEREAS, Set in a small town in 10 the Democratic Republic of Congo, Ruined 11 follows a shrewd businesswoman, Mama Nadi, and 12 the women she protects and profits from in a 13 land torn apart by civil war; and 14 "WHEREAS, Lynn Nottage is a 15 playwright from Brooklyn, New York, whose 16 other work includes 'Intimate Apparel,' 17 'Fabulation, or the Re-Education of Undine,' 18 'Crumbs from the Table of Joy,' and 'Las 19 Meninas,' which have been produced and 20 developed at theaters both nationally and 21 internationally; and 22 "WHEREAS, The quintessential 23 artist, Lynn Nottage has been the recipient of 24 a multitude of awards, including the 2007

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(518) 371-8910 1 MacArthur Genius Award, an Obie Award for 2 playwriting in 2005, the New York Drama 3 Critics' Circle Award for Best Play, the John 4 Gassner Award for Best Playwright, the Outer 5 Critic Circle Award for Best Play, and the 6 American Theatre Critics/Steinberg New Play 7 Award in 2004; and 8 "WHEREAS, In addition, Lynn Nottage 9 was awarded a 2007 Lucille Lortel Foundation 10 Fellowship, a 2005 Guggenheim Fellowship, the 11 National Black Theatre Festival August Wilson 12 Playwriting Award and the 2004 PEN/Laura Pels 13 Award for Drama; and 14 "WHEREAS, A recent graduate of New 15 Dramatists, Lynn Nottage is also a graduate of 16 Brown University and the Yale School of Drama, 17 where she is currently a visiting lecturer. 18 Among her most recent publications are 19 Intimate Apparel and Fabulation and an 20 anthology of her plays, Crumbs from the Table 21 of Joy and Other Plays; and 22 "WHEREAS, This Legislative Body 23 recognizes the importance of the performing 24 arts, which act to inspire, enlighten, and

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(518) 371-8910 1 unify people from all cultural backgrounds 2 through the transcendent power of human 3 expression; and 4 "WHEREAS, It is most fitting that 5 we take time to celebrate the arts of our 6 nation, to honor our artists, and to express 7 our appreciation to everyone who patronizes 8 the arts. As we celebrate the arts, we 9 celebrate and give thanks to our American 10 freedom, the only atmosphere in which artists 11 can truly create and in which art is truly the 12 expression of the soul; now, therefore, be it 13 "RESOLVED, That this Legislative 14 Body pause in its deliberations to honor Lynn 15 Nottage for her outstanding play Ruined, which 16 just completed a successful recent at the 17 Manhattan Theatre Club, and wish her continued 18 success in all her future endeavors; and be it 19 further 20 "RESOLVED, That a copy of this 21 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted 22 to Lynn Nottage." 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Senator Montgomery, on the resolution.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, thank 2 you, Mr. President. 3 We are really honored, I feel 4 honored today. This is the last day of 5 Women's History Month, and this is the last 6 woman that we are going to be honoring today. 7 And I'm very happy that she is here. 8 She is a constituent of mine, she's 9 a friend of mine, the daughter of a very good 10 friend and sister of mine. But more than 11 that, she now belongs to the whole State of 12 New York. She is a playwright of note and has 13 received many honors, including her 14 designation as one of the famous MacArthur 15 awardees for her genius in the arts in the 16 year 2007. 17 Her plays have been produced 18 throughout the U.S. and Europe at such venues 19 as the Second Stage Theater in New York, the 20 Tricycle Theater in London, and the 21 Steppenwolf Theater in Chicago. 22 Currently her play, the latest 23 play, Ruined, is now playing at the Manhattan 24 Center, and is one that has received any

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(518) 371-8910 1 number of rave reviews, including in the 2 New York Times, the Daily News, and other 3 papers. 4 I want to just take a moment to say 5 that this is a young woman who has already, 6 even though she's not -- I don't even consider 7 her yet in her prime -- she has been so 8 recognized as -- for an example, one of her 9 plays, which was called Intimate Apparel, it 10 had won so many awards, including the New York 11 Drama Critics Circle Award, Best Play; Outer 12 Critics Circle Award, Best Play; the PEN/Laura 13 Pels Foundation Award; the American Theatre 14 Critics Association Francesca Primus Award, 15 Best Play; Steinberg New York Play Award; 16 AUDELCO Dramatic Production of the Year. 17 All of these noted awards were -- 18 she was recipient of these awards because of 19 her play Intimate Apparel. And she is on her 20 way to receiving any number of accolades and 21 awards, including ours here today, for her 22 latest play, Ruined. 23 Now, Ruined is a play which also 24 acknowledges the pain and suffering that women

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(518) 371-8910 1 receive at the hands of war. It takes place 2 in the Congo, and it is a dramatic 3 representation of what happens in particular 4 to women who have nothing to do with a war, 5 who are not involved in it, who were not the 6 cause of it but merely the victims of it. And 7 it's beautifully done, but it's extremely 8 significant. It's historical. 9 And I think, for those of us who 10 enjoy theater -- it's my understanding that 11 this particular theater happens to be in 12 Senator Liz Krueger's district, but here is 13 someone from Buffalo wanting her to come. She 14 will undoubtedly be moving around the country 15 with this play, as she has done in the past 16 with other plays. 17 So we're really, really honored. 18 She's a treasure, Lynn Nottage is a New York 19 treasure. And moreover, Mr. President, she is 20 a Brooklyn treasure. And moreover, she is an 21 18th Senate District Brooklyn treasure and a 22 friend of mine. 23 So I really applaud her, and I am 24 honored to be able to stand here and say to

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(518) 371-8910 1 Lynn Nottage: We love you, we think that you 2 are wonderful, you've made such contributions 3 to the arts in our city and others, and we 4 look forward to seeing much more of your work 5 in the very near future. 6 Thank you, Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 8 you, Senator Montgomery. 9 Senator Serrano, on the resolution. 10 SENATOR SERRANO: Thank you, 11 Mr. President. 12 And I want to commend Senator 13 Montgomery for bringing this wonderful 14 resolution to the floor of the Senate. And I 15 would also like to congratulate Lynn for the 16 wonderful work that she is doing in theater. 17 And as chair of the Committee on 18 Cultural Affairs, and having had the good 19 fortune of working in nonprofit theater long 20 before I became an elected official, I know 21 full well the importance of artists in our 22 community and artists in our society. 23 Artists in so many ways are the 24 conscience of our society. They are the

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(518) 371-8910 1 storytellers. They are the ones who let us 2 understand the history in a way that is 3 meaningful and purposeful in our society. 4 And, as Senator Montgomery, I join 5 her and many other colleagues here in the 6 Senate in a full understanding that the arts 7 are more than something that is aesthetic, 8 more than something that is nice if you can 9 have it -- but more importantly, the arts are 10 a pillar in our society, just as important as 11 any other major infrastructure. And without 12 the arts, without a cultural sector, we cease 13 to be a full, civilized society. 14 And I think it's fitting, Senator 15 Montgomery, that we have this wonderful 16 resolution during budget time. Because as we 17 look over the numbers and as we grapple with 18 the fiscal deficit that we have here in the 19 State of New York, it is so important that we 20 fortify and maintain the arts and culture in 21 the great State of New York. Because without 22 it, not only do we not have the wonderful 23 educational component for our families and for 24 our society, but we also lose a major economic

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(518) 371-8910 1 engine that can help spur the economy at a 2 time of fiscal downturn. 3 So for that and so many reasons, I 4 congratulate Lynn and I congratulate Senator 5 Montgomery for bringing this resolution to the 6 floor. 7 Thank you. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 9 you, Senator Serrano. 10 Senator Squadron, on the 11 resolution. 12 SENATOR SQUADRON: I thank the 13 chair. 14 I first want to acknowledge Senator 15 Montgomery for acknowledging Lynn Nottage 16 today. It's so important, as Senator Serrano 17 said, especially on a day when our minds are 18 so much on the budget, to focus on the arts 19 and on these higher goals. I think it is a 20 reminder for all of us as to why a good budget 21 and why a functional state is so important. 22 Especially at the end of Women's 23 History Month -- it's not just the end of the 24 budget time, but it's a time when we

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(518) 371-8910 1 acknowledge the role and the expansion of 2 women in the arts and the great accomplishment 3 that Ruined is, in taking, as I understand it, 4 a Brecht play and modifying it -- "Mother 5 Courage," as I understand it -- and updating 6 it and bringing it into a modern context that 7 says so much about our world, about the role 8 of women and of men. 9 So I have not yet seen the show, as 10 you can tell from my description of it, 11 because I've been up here. But I also 12 appreciate Lynn Nottage coming up today and 13 reminding us of the great things that we can 14 home for. 15 I have not seen nearly enough 16 theater and focused nearly enough on art since 17 I've been in politics; I think many of us 18 don't. And so I'm glad to spend a moment 19 today to do it. 20 And I am particularly honored that 21 your show was at Manhattan Theatre Club. My 22 father was chair of the board of the City 23 Center Theater for a quarter of a century, 24 helped build it, helped bring Manhattan

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(518) 371-8910 1 Theatre Club there. And I know that it was 2 with plays like yours and creations like yours 3 and people like you that he had in mind when 4 he fought to save and expand City Center 5 Theater. So it's a great honor that you come 6 and joined us and that you have honored that 7 place with this show. 8 So I urge you to stay in Brooklyn, 9 stay in New York, keep working, and please 10 also welcome other new and young artists in 11 New York and keep them in the arts. Don't let 12 them fall into politics or anything else. 13 Because such a big part of who we are is 14 having young artists develop and stay and grow 15 here. 16 So I congratulate you today, and I 17 congratulate you on your great accomplishment. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 19 you, Senator Squadron. 20 Are there any other Senators who 21 wish to be heard on the resolution? 22 Seeing none, the question is on the 23 resolution. All in favor signify by saying 24 aye.

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(518) 371-8910 1 (Response of "Aye.") 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Opposed, nay. 4 (No response.) 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 6 resolution is adopted. 7 Ms. Nottage, on behalf of Senator 8 Montgomery, Senator Serrano, Senator Squadron, 9 and all the members of the Senate, we thank 10 you for the contributions you have made and 11 continue to make to the people of the state. 12 We hope you enjoy your visit here to the 13 Senate chamber and to Albany, and all best 14 wishes in the future. 15 (Applause.) 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator Klein. 18 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, I 19 believe Senator Perkins has a resolution at 20 the desk. I ask that the resolution be read 21 in its entirety, move for its immediate 22 adoption, and allow Senator Perkins to speak 23 on his resolution. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The

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(518) 371-8910 1 Secretary will read. 2 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 3 Perkins, Legislative Resolution Number 1133, 4 celebrating the life and accomplishments of 5 abolitionist, women's rights activist, and 6 humanitarian Sojourner Truth, 1797-1883. 7 "WHEREAS, March is Women's History 8 Month, a time to honor, reflect on, and pay 9 tribute to the women of our nation for their 10 significant contributions and dedication to 11 fighting equality for all women; and 12 "WHEREAS, The efforts and 13 accomplishments of African-American women are 14 all too often overlooked, and the need to 15 recognize their commitment is worthwhile, 16 meaningful, and long overdue; and 17 "WHEREAS, Attendant to such 18 concern, and in full accord with its 19 longstanding traditions, this Legislative Body 20 is justly proud to celebrate the life and 21 accomplishments of abolitionist, women's 22 rights activist, and humanitarian Sojourner 23 Truth, 1797-1889; and 24 "WHEREAS, Born Isabella Baumfree in

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(518) 371-8910 1 1797, on the Johannes Hardenbergh estate in 2 the Swartekill neighborhood in what was then 3 the Town of Hurley, New York, but is now in 4 Esopus, Sojourner Truth is considered to be 5 one of the two most famous black women of the 6 19th century; and 7 "WHEREAS, Sojourner Truth was a 8 19th-century Ulster County former slave and 9 forerunner of the women's and civil rights 10 movements. She, like many other slaves, had 11 watched her brothers and sisters be sold into 12 slavery and taken away from their families; 13 and 14 "WHEREAS, Sojourner Truth grew up 15 speaking Dutch and had at least five children 16 (two daughters were sold away from her). She 17 fled her owners' household in 1827, found 18 refuge in the home of the Van Wageners, and 19 took their name; and 20 "WHEREAS, In 1843, she was inspired 21 to change her name from Isabella Van Wagener 22 to Sojourner Truth, and to set out to become a 23 preacher. She ended up in Northampton, 24 Massachusetts, with a utopian community, and

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(518) 371-8910 1 stayed there until 1850, when she settled in 2 Battle Creek, Michigan. By that time, she had 3 given lectures on abolition and women's rights 4 in many public appearances; and 5 "WHEREAS, 'Ain't I A Woman?' is 6 persuasive, motivational, inspirational and 7 the most recognized speech by Sojourner Truth. 8 She delivered it at a women's rights 9 convention in Akron, Ohio, in 1851; and 10 "WHEREAS, The celebrated Sojourner 11 Truth had excellent powers of oration which 12 are highlighted forever in her famous speech. 13 This remarkable lady's unwavering dedication 14 to the women's suffrage movement stands as a 15 beacon of inspiration for all women, both then 16 and now, who have struggled and continue to 17 struggle for their rights; and 18 "WHEREAS, Sojourner Truth was 19 received by President Abraham Lincoln at the 20 White House in 1864. After the war, she 21 advocated a 'Negro State' and promoted the 22 emigration of African-Americans to the West. 23 She continued to travel throughout much of the 24 Northeast, lecturing on a variety of

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(518) 371-8910 1 inspirational and social reform topics, before 2 retiring to Battle Creek, Michigan, in her 3 later years; and 4 "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this 5 Legislative Body that Women's History Month is 6 a highly felicitous time to recognize and 7 honor women of greatness; now, therefore, be 8 it 9 "RESOLVED, That this Legislative 10 Body pause in its deliberations to celebrate 11 the life and accomplishments of abolitionist, 12 women's rights activist and humanitarian 13 Sojourner Truth, 1797-1883." 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Senator Perkins, on the resolution. 16 SENATOR PERKINS: Thank you very 17 much, Mr. President. 18 Sojourner Truth often said that 19 "Truth is powerful, and it prevails." The 20 message of Sojourner Truth is indeed powerful, 21 and her message will prevail. 22 Sojourner Truth devoted her life to 23 the women's suffrage movement. She was an 24 accomplished abolitionist, women's rights

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(518) 371-8910 1 activist and humanitarian. As a forerunner in 2 the movement for women's rights, she was often 3 faced with naysayers and pessimists who told 4 her to quit or to give up. However, she never 5 quit or gave up. Her steadfast commitment to 6 the cause of women's rights is an enduring 7 reminder for those of us who continue to fight 8 for what she so boldly stood for. 9 As a society, we are infinitely 10 fortunate to have individuals like Sojourner 11 Truth who are willing to devote their lives to 12 the cause of civil and human rights. It's my 13 honor to introduce this resolution and give 14 tribute to such an amazing woman, Sojourner 15 Truth. 16 Thank you. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 18 you, Senator Perkins. 19 Are there any other Senators who 20 wish to be heard on the resolution? 21 Seeing none, the question is on the 22 resolution. All in favor signify by saying 23 aye. 24 (Response of "Aye.")

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Opposed, nay. 3 (No response.) 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 5 resolution is adopted. 6 Both this resolution and Senator 7 Montgomery's resolution are open for 8 multisponsorship. Any member of the Senate 9 wishing not to sign on as a cosponsor should 10 notify the desk. 11 Senator Klein. 12 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, at 13 this time can we stand at ease until the call 14 of the Majority Leader. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 16 Senate will stand at ease until the call of 17 the Majority Leader. 18 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 19 ease at 3:34 p.m.) 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Klein. 22 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 23 I'm happy to report that the Senate will 24 convene at 5:30.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 2 Senate will continue to stand at ease and will 3 reconvene at 5:30. 4 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened 5 at 5:43 p.m.) 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 7 Senate will return at this time to the order 8 of motions and resolutions. 9 Senator Klein. 10 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 11 there will be an immediate meeting of the 12 Rules Committee in the Majority Conference 13 Room. 14 Pending the conclusion of the Rules 15 Committee, may we please stand at ease. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: There 17 will be an immediate meeting of the Committee 18 on Rules in the Majority Conference Room, 19 Room 332. 20 The Senate will stand at ease 21 pending the report of the Rules Committee. 22 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 23 ease at 5:44 p.m.) 24 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened

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(518) 371-8910 1 at 6:01 p.m.) 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator Klein. 4 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, I 5 believe there's a report of the Rules 6 Committee at the desk. I move that we accept 7 the report of the Rules Committee. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 9 Senator Klein, there is a report of the Rules 10 Committee at the desk, and the Secretary will 11 read. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith, 13 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 14 following bills: 15 Senate Print 50C, Senate Budget 16 Bill, an act making appropriations for the 17 support of government: Public Protection and 18 General Government Budget; 19 51A, Senate Budget Bill, an act 20 making appropriations for the support of 21 government: Legislature and Judiciary Budget; 22 53C, Senate Budget Bill, an act 23 making appropriations for the support of 24 government: Education, Labor and Family

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(518) 371-8910 1 Assistance Budget; 2 54C, Senate Budget Bill, an act 3 making appropriations for the support of 4 government: Health and Mental Hygiene Budget; 5 55C, Senate Budget Bill, an act 6 making appropriations for the support of 7 government: Transportation, Economic 8 Development and Environmental Conservation 9 Budget; 10 56B, Senate Budget Bill, an act to 11 amend the State Finance Law; 12 57B, Senate Budget Bill, an act to 13 amend the Education Law; 14 58B, Senate Budget Bill, an act to 15 amend the Public Health Law and the Elder Law; 16 And Senate Print 59B, Senate Budget 17 Bill, an act to amend Chapter 279 of the Laws 18 of 1998 amending the Transportation Law. 19 All bills ordered direct to third 20 reading. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Senator Klein. 23 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, at 24 this time can we take up Supplemental Calendar

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(518) 371-8910 1 29A. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator Klein, if we could have a motion to 4 adopt the report of the Rules Committee. 5 SENATOR KLEIN: I make a motion 6 to adopt the report of the Rules Committee. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: All 8 those in favor of adopting the report of the 9 Rules Committee please signify by saying aye. 10 (Response of "Aye.") 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Opposed, nay. 13 (Response of "Nay.") 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 15 report of the Rules Committee is adopted. 16 Senator Klein. 17 SENATOR KLEIN: Could we now take 18 up Supplemental Calendar 29A. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 20 Secretary will read Senate Supplemental 21 Calendar 29A. 22 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 23 Calendar Number -- 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Excuse

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(518) 371-8910 1 me. 2 Senator Skelos, why do you rise? 3 SENATOR SKELOS: This is on the 4 consent calendar or the debate calendar? Oh, 5 the debate calendar, thank you. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: This 7 will be the noncontroversial reading of the 8 supplemental calendar, Senator Skelos. 9 The Secretary will read. 10 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 11 Calendar Number 134, Senator C. Kruger moves 12 to discharge, from the Committee on Finance, 13 Assembly Bill Number 155C and substitute it 14 for the identical Senate Bill Number 55C, 15 Third Reading Calendar 134. 16 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay it aside, 17 please. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Substitution ordered. 20 The Secretary will read. 21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 22 134, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print 23 155C, an act making appropriations for the 24 support of government.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 2 bill is laid aside. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 138, Senate Budget Bill, Senate Print 59B, an 5 act to amend Chapter 279 of the Laws of 1998. 6 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay it aside, 7 please. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 9 bill is laid aside. 10 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 11 Calendar Number 133, Senator C. Kruger moves 12 to discharge, from the Committee on Finance, 13 Assembly Bill Number 154C and substitute it 14 for the identical Senate Bill Number 54C, 15 Third Reading Calendar 133. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Substitution ordered. 18 The Secretary will read. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 133, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print 21 Number 154C, an act making appropriations for 22 the support of government. 23 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay it aside. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The

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(518) 371-8910 1 bill is laid aside. 2 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 3 Calendar Number 137, Senator C. Kruger moves 4 to discharge, from the Committee on Finance, 5 Assembly Bill Number 158B and substitute it 6 for the identical Senate Bill Number 58B, 7 Third Reading Calendar 137. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 9 substitution is ordered, and the Secretary 10 will read. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 137, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print 13 Number 158B, an act to amend the Public Health 14 Law and the Elder Law. 15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay the bill 16 aside. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 18 bill is laid aside. 19 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 20 Calendar Number 132, Senator C. Kruger moves 21 to discharge, from the Committee on Finance, 22 Assembly Bill Number 153C and substitute it 23 for the identical Senate Bill Number 53C, 24 Third Reading Calendar 132.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 2 substitution is ordered, and the Secretary 3 will read. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 132, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print 6 Number 153C, an act making appropriations for 7 the support of government: Education, Labor 8 and Family Assistance Budget. 9 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay it aside, 10 please. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 12 bill is laid aside. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 136, Senate Budget Bill, Senate Print 57B, an 15 act to amend the Education Law. 16 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay the bill 17 aside, please. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 19 bill is laid aside. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 131, Senate Budget Bill, Senate Print 51A, an 22 act making appropriations for the support of 23 government: Legislature and Judiciary Budget. 24 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay the bill

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(518) 371-8910 1 aside, please. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 bill is laid aside. 4 Senator Klein, that completes the 5 noncontroversial reading of Senate 6 Supplemental Calendar 29A. 7 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, at 8 this time can we please have a reading of the 9 controversial Supplemental Calendar 29A, and 10 begin with Calendar Number 134. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 12 Secretary will ring the bells. 13 I ask all members to come to the 14 chamber to be prepared to consider the first 15 of the nine budget bills. 16 We will begin on the controversial 17 calendar with Calendar Number 134, and the 18 Secretary will read. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 134, substituted earlier, Assembly Budget 21 Bill, Assembly Print Number 155C, an act 22 making appropriations for the support of 23 government: Transportation, Economic 24 Development and Environmental Conservation

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(518) 371-8910 1 Budget. 2 SENATOR LIBOUS: Explanation. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Kruger, an explanation of the bill has 5 been requested. 6 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you, 7 Mr. President. 8 Today is March 31, 2009, a historic 9 moment in the life of every New Yorker and a 10 historic moment in the life of this chamber. 11 For the first time -- actually, for the sixth 12 time in 33 years we're in this house 13 presenting a budget on time and on balance. 14 This budget is the representation 15 of 13 public hearings on a budget that was 16 presented by the Governor on December 16th of 17 last year. The hearings began on January 13th 18 of this year; 428 individual groups testified 19 before those 13 public hearings. Over 5,000 20 letters were received on that budget, 23,000 21 hits on the Senate Majority website. 22 Thousands of pages of testimony were received 23 and documented. 24 Out of that budget came the

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(518) 371-8910 1 deliberations which we face this evening. 2 Hugh Carey in 1975, in his State of the State 3 message, said that the days of wine and roses 4 were over. Well, little did he know that 5 44 years later this house would face a budget 6 with a $17 billion deficit -- at the time, 7 interestingly enough, a deficit that was equal 8 to almost the size of his budget. 9 However, we've approached this 10 knowing full well that New York is not an 11 island, that our communities face the issues 12 of those communities across this great state 13 and around this nation. Today we live in a 14 global society with a global economic picture. 15 There is a meltdown taking place right before 16 us. Every day, the loss becomes greater and 17 greater. Every day that we considered the 18 budget, our deficit grew larger and larger. 19 Tens of thousands of people lost their jobs 20 while we continued these deliberations. 21 The phrase was coined that this was 22 sort of a moving target. Well, it was a 23 target that you could never really find the 24 bull's-eye. And because of that, this became

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(518) 371-8910 1 a difficult process, a process that many of 2 us -- in fact, all of us -- should not be 3 happy with, a process that needed tuning and 4 refining. And it's a process that is a 5 product in motion. 6 Today's budget is a reflection of 7 those shared values. The cuts that we have 8 placed on our programs have been huge: 9 $6 billion worth of cuts from last year's 10 programs and last year's budget have become 11 the cornerstone of this year's budget. It's a 12 sad comment, but it's a comment that we have 13 to deal with. 14 We as elected officials, we as the 15 upper house in this Legislature, had a keen 16 and unique responsibility. We had to 17 recognize our common needs and the basic 18 concerns of the people that we come here 19 for -- the sick, the poor, the developmentally 20 disabled, the aged. At the same time, we had 21 to create jobs, we had to foster new 22 development, we had to recognize that we must 23 advance technology, we must protect education, 24 provide for our universities, and keep in mind

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(518) 371-8910 1 that the budget had to be balanced and the 2 budget ultimately had to be approved. 3 And we've done that. We've done 4 that succinctly, we've done it on target, and 5 we've done it on time. 6 Many people will feel that this 7 budget doesn't reflect the spending patterns 8 that they would like to see. And members will 9 debate that today, tonight, and tomorrow. And 10 in many instances their arguments will ring a 11 positive note, because none of us should be 12 happy with this budget. None of us should 13 feel that the cuts were done as cuts should 14 have been done. 15 But they had to be done. The 16 restorations that were made, the revenue that 17 was generated was to fill a huge spending gap. 18 The stimulus money that came down from 19 Washington, I said during the hearing everyone 20 was getting stimulated over the stimulus 21 money. Well, they were getting 22 overstimulated. Because at the end of the 23 day, when Washington was finished with the 24 rules and regulations and when we had to

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(518) 371-8910 1 actually look at the money that we got, we saw 2 full well that the money that we got was not 3 the money that could be used in the places 4 that we really wanted to use them in the 5 fullest context of a stimulus package. 6 So we were left with using those 7 funds, with making severe cuts, and at the 8 same time having to generate new revenue. 9 We've done all three of those components. 10 That's why we're here tonight with a balanced, 11 on-time budget. 12 As this drama unfolds and as the 13 chairpeople of our committees present this 14 budget and as we all share in the debate that 15 surrounds it, we have to recognize full well 16 that this committee did not operate in a 17 vacuum. We reached out to the other side. We 18 tried to bring all of the partisan politics 19 out of this process and make it truly a 20 representative sampling of what this 21 Legislature is all about. 22 Many may disagree with that. And I 23 don't need a show of hands. But at the same 24 time, at the same time, the facts are that

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(518) 371-8910 1 that attempt was made. 2 And could we have done a better 3 job? Perhaps. And will we do a better job in 4 the future? For sure. But at the same time, 5 the vision that we had, the complexities of 6 the issues in front of us, the need to develop 7 a strategy that would extricate us from what 8 has become the greatest economic downturn of 9 modern times, put us on a reform path. 10 We tried to retool the way we 11 deliver healthcare in this state, to 12 understand the obligations that we have 13 towards the State University system, to try to 14 lasso in the cost of home care and nursing 15 care, to understand that economic development 16 and job creation will be the true prescription 17 for long-time success. 18 We are on a road, the road that we 19 have charted today begins. New York is at a 20 precipice. But at the same time, as Yogi 21 Berra said: When you see a fork in the road, 22 take it. Well, we've taken it. We've taken 23 the road that brings us to fiscal strength, to 24 understand that we have to reshape the way we

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(518) 371-8910 1 govern and the way we deliver services, that 2 we can't continue to expect to spend more and 3 get less in. As Hugh Carey said, truly the 4 days of wine and roses are over. 5 Thank you. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 7 you, Senator Kruger. 8 Senator Skelos. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, 10 Mr. President. 11 And Senator Kruger, I agree with 12 you on one point. Today is March 31st. 13 And this is the first time we've 14 had an open public debate of this budget. And 15 I think that this is unfortunate for the 16 people of the State of New York, who because 17 of what you're going to do, and your Democrat 18 friends and the Democrat Governor, they're 19 going to pay for this budget in so many 20 ways -- through higher taxes, and possibly 21 with the loss of their jobs. 22 Senator Kruger, you mentioned the 23 day of wine and roses is over. That's because 24 you're going to tax wine. You're going to tax

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(518) 371-8910 1 beer. And we should take a sip of water, 2 because you're going to be taxing water before 3 this session is over. And that's important, 4 that's unfortunate, because that impacts the 5 quality of life that so many people in 6 New York State desire. And they're losing it 7 because of what your side of the aisle is 8 doing. 9 As you know, in the past we broke 10 the cycle of late budgets by reforming the 11 process, to bring about more openness and 12 transparency than at any time in the state's 13 history. Both houses passed their own 14 budgets, their budget plans or resolutions. 15 And the press knew where we stood, everyone 16 knew -- the public in particular -- what 17 budget alternatives we were supporting and 18 opposing. We submitted them to joint 19 conference committees; we all participated in 20 that. We had discussions, and we worked out a 21 resolution in public. 22 Despite so much talk of reform and 23 change, the only change we have seen is that 24 an effective public budget process was

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(518) 371-8910 1 ignored. This budget was negotiated in 2 secret, crafted behind closed doors, subject 3 to press blackouts and special rules to keep 4 it under wraps as long as possible. 5 Democrat Governor Paterson, 6 Democrat Speaker Silver, and Democrat Majority 7 Leader Senator Smith succeeded -- and all of 8 you, by allowing it to happen -- in turning 9 back the clock to the days of three men in a 10 room. And the result is a disastrous budget 11 that taxes too much, spends too much, and will 12 cost thousands and thousands of jobs. 13 This lack of transparency is 14 unprecedented in all the years that I've had 15 the privilege to serve in this chamber. You 16 can talk all you want about having "One 17 New York," but the fact is that half of the 18 people in this state that we represent have 19 been shut out of the budget process. 20 Well, today the people that we 21 represent are going to have their say, and 22 they will have their say tomorrow when we 23 continue to debate bills. And let me tell 24 you, they're going to express their feelings

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(518) 371-8910 1 and their reaction to the budget you're going 2 to pass in the days to come. 3 The members of the Senate 4 Republican conference have a lot of questions 5 we want to ask today and tomorrow, because 6 we've only had a short time to review this 7 budget. As the only conference that publicly 8 proposed its own budget -- some plan, 9 something -- we want to offer alternatives to 10 this budget. I expect we'll have a lively, 11 informative debate and a respectful one. 12 Passing the budget is the single 13 most important action the Legislature 14 undertakes, and it has the largest impact on 15 every person, every family, and every business 16 in this state. Governor Paterson, Speaker 17 Silver, and Senator Smith said this budget 18 couldn't be discussed in public because we are 19 in crisis. That's shocking, and that's 20 disgraceful. 21 Let me say that so many families 22 across this state are facing a real crisis. 23 They are worried about their jobs and their 24 future, they are struggling to make ends meet,

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(518) 371-8910 1 people are worried about losing their homes or 2 their businesses. They deserve to know how 3 much of their hard-earned money the state is 4 going to take away and how it will be spent. 5 And they deserve that in advance of passage of 6 this legislation. 7 Today and tomorrow, Senate 8 Republicans are going to speak up for the 9 New Yorkers who don't want to pay higher 10 taxes. We're going to fight for homeowners 11 who want help paying their property taxes. 12 And quite frankly, they want their STAR rebate 13 checks returned, because they depend upon it. 14 We are going to try to stop measures, and we 15 urge any one of you, we just need one of you 16 of courage and conviction to join us in 17 stopping this disastrous plan. 18 The budget process has been 19 conducted solely by three Democrats from 20 New York City. People in Buffalo, Syracuse, 21 Watertown, and Mineola, they didn't have their 22 voices heard, because everything was done 23 behind closed doors. They deserve a full, 24 open and public debate, not a rubber stamp on

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(518) 371-8910 1 a bad budget that increases taxes, takes away 2 property tax relief, and causes more jobs to 3 be lost. 4 So thank you, Mr. President, for 5 the courtesy of allowing me to speak as we 6 enter this budget process. Thank you, 7 Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 9 you, Senator Skelos. 10 Senator Young, why do you rise? 11 SENATOR YOUNG: I rise because I 12 have an amendment. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Young, your amendment is here at the 15 desk. Without objection, the reading of the 16 amendment is waived and you may speak on the 17 amendment. 18 SENATOR YOUNG: Thank you, 19 Mr. President. 20 Agriculture is the top industry in 21 New York State, and it pumps billions of 22 dollars into our economy. Despite this fact, 23 the budget bill that is being considered today 24 has severe and deep cuts to our agricultural

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(518) 371-8910 1 programs that we've had in New York State, and 2 it will cripple many of these sectors that are 3 so important to our economy. 4 Today we have an amendment that 5 restores funding to these vital programs, 6 things like the Quality Milk Program at 7 Cornell, the Center for Dairy Excellence, the 8 Farm Viability Institute, the New York State 9 Apple Association, the wine and grape 10 marketing, the phytophthora research that 11 benefits vegetable growers in Senator 12 Stachowski's district. And the list goes on. 13 We even restore the Tractor Rollover Program 14 that saves lives that unfortunately is being 15 cut in this budget bill. 16 So we are investing $10 million in 17 our farmers, into our agriculture, and into 18 our economy here in New York State. That's 19 the first part of the amendment. 20 The second part of the amendment 21 helps our dairy farmers that are in a severe 22 crisis right now. Milk prices are at an 23 historic low. In fact, they're 40 percent 24 lower than they were at this time last year.

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(518) 371-8910 1 The recessionary economy has slowed demand for 2 dairy foods both at home and abroad, causing a 3 surplus that further undercuts dairy prices. 4 Now, all of this is going on while 5 there are spikes in costs to farmers for 6 things like feed, fuel, fertilizer, energy 7 costs. And this is a perfect storm that is 8 going to drive many of our dairy farmers out 9 of business this year. I would hazard a guess 10 that hundreds if not thousands of our dairy 11 farms will go under. And that will have a 12 severe economic impact to New York State. 13 Right now New York is the nation's 14 third largest dairy state, generating over 15 $2 billion in milk sales annually. When you 16 factor in the fact that these farms also 17 contribute to small businesses and rural life 18 in upstate New York -- places like feed 19 dealers, equipment suppliers, other small 20 businesses -- the loss will be huge to 21 New York State. 22 Now, in 2006 we had a similar 23 crisis. And at that time the Senate stepped 24 up, took action, got results, and did

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(518) 371-8910 1 something to save our dairy farmers. It was 2 the Dairy Assistance Program that invested 3 $30 million directly into our dairy farms. 4 This amendment today reconstitutes the Dairy 5 Assistance Program so that we can save these 6 family farms, and many of the people in this 7 room voted to support that. 8 Now, it's interesting to note that 9 on the federal level there have been deep cuts 10 proposed to agriculture. But Congressman Eric 11 Massa says that the funds have been restored. 12 Last night President Obama told Congressman 13 Massa he would drop the provision in his 14 budget proposal that would have cut assistance 15 for farms that generate more than $500,000 in 16 gross sales revenue. 17 I bring that up because if the 18 federal government can fight to save our 19 family farms, then we should be doing the same 20 thing in this chamber. 21 I would urge all of you to do the 22 right thing and vote yes on this amendment. 23 It's important to our economic future in 24 New York State.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 0Thank 2 you, Senator Young. 3 Senator Libous. 4 SENATOR LIBOUS: Could I request 5 a roll call on the amendment, please. A fast 6 roll call, I mean. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Before 8 we do that, Senator Libous, are there any 9 other Senators who wish to be heard on the 10 amendment? 11 Seeing none, the question is on the 12 nonsponsor motion to amend Calendar Number 13 134. Those Senators voting in support of the 14 nonsponsor amendment please raise your hands. 15 The Secretary will announce the 16 results. 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 30. Nays, 18 32. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 20 motion fails. 21 Senator Stachowski, on the bill. 22 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: On the bill, 23 on the economic development portion of this 24 bill. I thought I'd take the time to explain

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(518) 371-8910 1 what we have done in this part of the budget 2 bill. 3 In this bill we dealt with Empire 4 Zones by rejecting the Governor's immediate 5 changes and limited the lookback to 1 to 1 and 6 a certain number of shirt-changers for any 7 kind of decertification. We also changed the 8 sunset date to allow for an earlier imposition 9 of the new replacement program that is 10 currently being negotiated between the 11 Business Council, economic development people 12 from across the state, the New York City 13 partnership, and the Governor's people. 14 Hopefully they'll come up with a program that 15 isn't limited to location. 16 But as told to many of us during 17 the course of this budget process, after the 18 Governor's budget came out on Empire Zones and 19 the changes, that certain companies -- for 20 example, biotechs -- will never hit 20 to 1. 21 Manufacturing companies will never hit 20 to 22 1. And certain other successful new companies 23 will never hit 20 to 1. 24 However, they are successful, they

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(518) 371-8910 1 create jobs, and they add to our state. So 2 the object of this group is to put together a 3 new program that will recognizes different 4 industries and different categories need 5 different kind of qualifications. And that's 6 the end goal of this negotiation, and that's 7 why the date has been moved up to expire 8 sooner. 9 Also in this part, the economic 10 development portion of this package, we have 11 restorations in research and technology. The 12 Centers for Advanced Technology have all been 13 restored. The Centers for Advanced Technology 14 have all been funded. That's a very important 15 part, because they play a great role in 16 research and development and working with 17 small companies throughout the state in 18 various areas. 19 Also important in this is there's 20 been a restoration for the Focus Centers, 21 $2 million. The Legislature also maintains 22 $1.2 million of operating funds for the six 23 Centers of Excellence across the state that 24 play a major role.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Also in this section, the 2 Legislature denies the combining of DED, 3 NYSTAR, and ESDC and puts back the budgets for 4 NYSTAR and DED with a 10 percent reduction in 5 their budget, of 10.5 percent, to match up 6 with other departments that have been cut. 7 We think these things are 8 important, we think they play a major role in 9 making us still able to grow economic 10 development. At a time when we're trying to 11 cut a deficit, fill a deficit, we can't cut 12 our way to prosperity. So we think that these 13 and other parts of this package will help the 14 economy to grow, continue to attract 15 businesses, and continue to help the companies 16 that have taken advantage of these programs 17 and grow jobs and retain jobs in New York to 18 help make this state better. 19 Thank you, Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 21 you, Senator Stachowski. 22 Just one moment. To set the 23 transcript straight, the vote on Senator 24 Young's nonsponsor amendment was 30 ayes,

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(518) 371-8910 1 31 nays. 2 Senator Aubertine, on the bill. 3 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Thank you, 4 Mr. President. On the bill. 5 As chairman of the Senate 6 Agriculture Committee, and one of the only if 7 not the only active farmer in the New York 8 State Legislature, I do feel compelled to 9 speak on the bill but from the point not only 10 of a farmer but that of a legislator as well. 11 We proposed to increase the funding 12 in many different programs from the initial 13 Governor's recommendation. We've increased 14 funding on many programs, to the extent of 15 over 43 percent of what the Governor initially 16 proposed: over $7 million of restorations, or 17 nearly $7 million of restorations. 18 I've reached out to my colleagues 19 on both sides of the aisle, to my counterpart, 20 the ranker on the Ag Committee. In fact, I've 21 got a response, a written response, items that 22 were identified by my counterpart. Johne's 23 disease, the Farm Family Assistance, Migrant 24 Worker Program, all completely restored. In

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(518) 371-8910 1 fact, the Migrant Worker Program was restored 2 beyond the request of my ranker colleague. 3 But it's more than just that. I 4 mean, we have to live in the reality of the 5 budget and the monies that are available to 6 us. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 8 Senator Young, why do you rise? 9 SENATOR YOUNG: Mr. President, 10 will Senator Aubertine yield for a question? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator Aubertine, do you yield? 13 SENATOR AUBERTINE: As soon as 14 I'm finished, I most certainly will. 15 What's been proposed is a 16 tremendous increase over what the Governor has 17 proposed. In fact, it's a 40 percent increase 18 over last year's budget in agriculture, a 19 75 percent increase over what the Governor 20 proposed. 21 There are things that we can, 22 should, and need to do for agriculture in this 23 state in every sector. But there are things 24 that we can, should, and need to do for dairy

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(518) 371-8910 1 in this time of dairy crisis that we haven't 2 done yet. We need to support a resolution, we 3 need to support legislation that would deal 4 with the Class 3 debacle for monies that are 5 owed to dairy farmers in this state on Class 3 6 production. These are not taxpayer dollars; 7 this is money that's owed to our agricultural 8 community not only in New York State but all 9 across the United States. 10 There are things we can do here 11 such as dealing with the casine issue and 12 helping to make sure that the market is not 13 eroded, as it's been eroded for decades in 14 this state for dairy. There are things we can 15 do here to deal with bloc voting, which 16 prevent dairy co-ops from usurping the rights 17 of dairy farmers and taking away their right 18 to vote on issues that concern them, their 19 families, and their paychecks. 20 There are things we can do here in 21 this state that other states here in the 22 Northeast have already done and stand ready to 23 work with us -- on hauling -- and yet we 24 haven't done it. But we need to. Vermont,

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(518) 371-8910 1 New Hampshire, and other Northeast states have 2 already done it, and we need to work with 3 them. 4 So I'd be happy to work with 5 anybody, anybody in this chamber and the other 6 house, to make sure that these issues are 7 dealt with the way they should be, properly, 8 and make sure that the taxpayer dollars are 9 spent wisely in the process. 10 There are things that we can do and 11 should do and things that we shouldn't do. 12 One of the issues that we have with the last 13 proposal that's been put before us, that some 14 in this chamber have supported, in their zeal 15 to put it together, they've misstated -- in 16 paragraph 4, I'm reading Section 19H of the 17 UDC law. I couldn't find Section 19H in the 18 UDC law. I think it was meant to be 19 Section 16H. But even at that, Section 16H 20 expired in 2007. And the reason I know that 21 is because I was one of the people in the 22 people's house, in the Assembly, that helped 23 craft this. 24 So again, I am more than willing to

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(518) 371-8910 1 work with anyone on any issue concerning 2 agriculture in this state. 3 Thank you, Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 5 you, Senator Aubertine. Do you at this time 6 yield to Senator Young's request? 7 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes. 8 SENATOR YOUNG: Thank you, 9 Mr. President. 10 Senator Aubertine, I listened very 11 intently to what you said, and you mentioned a 12 written letter that I did send to you giving 13 you our priorities for the agriculture budget. 14 And you talked about how you restored much of 15 my request. 16 So I just have a question. Was the 17 Quality Milk Program under your budget 18 restored to $1.3 million? Which is last 19 year's level, by the way. 20 SENATOR AUBERTINE: I'm looking 21 for it here. No. 22 SENATOR YOUNG: Okay. Was the 23 Future Farmers of America -- 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Young, are you asking Senator 2 Aubertine to continue to yield? 3 SENATOR YOUNG: Yes. Would 4 Senator Aubertine still yield for a question? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Aubertine, do you yield? 7 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 9 Senator yields. 10 SENATOR YOUNG: Was the Future 11 Farmers of America, were they restored to 12 $230,500? 13 SENATOR AUBERTINE: No. 14 SENATOR YOUNG: Will the Senator 15 still yield? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator Aubertine, do you yield? 18 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 20 Senator yields. 21 SENATOR YOUNG: Was the Onion 22 Research Program restored to $100,000? 23 SENATOR AUBERTINE: No. 24 SENATOR YOUNG: Thank you,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Aubertine. 2 Will the Senator still yield? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Aubertine, do you yield? 5 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 7 Senator yields. 8 SENATOR YOUNG: Was the Cornell 9 Phytophthora Research Program restored to 10 $200,000? 11 SENATOR AUBERTINE: No. 12 SENATOR YOUNG: Thank you. 13 Will the Senator still yield? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Senator Aubertine, do you yield? 16 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 18 Senator yields. 19 SENATOR YOUNG: Was the New York 20 State Apple Growers Association restored to 21 $750,000? 22 SENATOR AUBERTINE: No. 23 SENATOR YOUNG: Thank you. 24 Will the Senator still yield?

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Aubertine, do you yield? 3 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 5 Senator yields. 6 SENATOR YOUNG: Was the Turf 7 Grass Environmental Stewardship Fund restored 8 to $175,000? 9 SENATOR AUBERTINE: No. 10 SENATOR YOUNG: Thank you. 11 Will the Senator still yield? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 13 Senator Aubertine, do you yield? 14 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 16 Senator yields. 17 SENATOR YOUNG: Tractor Rollover 18 Protection Program, was that restored to 19 $100,000? 20 SENATOR AUBERTINE: No. 21 SENATOR YOUNG: Thank you. 22 Will the Senator still yield? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Senator Aubertine, do you continue to yield?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 Senator yields. 4 SENATOR YOUNG: I'll just ask two 5 more. Plum Pox Virus Eradication Program, was 6 that restored to $500,000? 7 SENATOR AUBERTINE: No. 8 SENATOR YOUNG: Thank you. 9 So overall, the restorations -- if 10 the Senator would still yield. One more 11 question. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 13 Senator Aubertine, do you continue to yield? 14 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 16 Senator yields. 17 SENATOR YOUNG: So overall, the 18 restorations that the Senate Republicans asked 19 for for agriculture were $31,169,000. Was 20 that what you restored in your budget? 21 SENATOR AUBERTINE: No. 22 SENATOR YOUNG: Thank you. 23 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Would Senator 24 Young yield for a question?

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Young, do you yield? 3 SENATOR YOUNG: Sure. 4 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Well, I guess 5 my primary question, Senator, would be how 6 would you propose to pay for this? 7 SENATOR YOUNG: That is a very 8 easy question, Senator Aubertine, and I'm glad 9 that you asked it. There's a $1 billion 10 federal stimulus slush fund that the Senate 11 Democrats have included in your budget 12 proposal. And I would propose that there's no 13 greater stimulus in this state than 14 agriculture. And I believe that we should 15 take $31 million of that $1 billion slush fund 16 and apply it to agriculture. One billion 17 dollar slush fund. 18 SENATOR AUBERTINE: For clarity, 19 could you help me better understand this -- 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Aubertine, are you asking Senator 22 Young to continue to yield? 23 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes. 24 Senator, would you continue to yield?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR YOUNG: Yes, I will. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 Senator yields. 4 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Senator, for 5 clarity, could you help me better understand 6 where this slush fund is? 7 SENATOR YOUNG: Certainly, 8 Senator Aubertine. I can repeat what I just 9 told you. In your budget proposal there is a 10 $1 billion undesignated slush fund of federal 11 stimulus money that they have not -- that you 12 have not allocated toward any specific 13 purpose. We should be investing in 14 agriculture programs in this state, and there 15 it is, the $31 million out of a $1 billion 16 slush fund. 17 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Would the 18 Senator continue to yield? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 20 Senator Young, do you continue to yield? 21 SENATOR YOUNG: Yes. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 23 Senator yields. 24 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Senator, are

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(518) 371-8910 1 you sure that agriculture is eligible for that 2 money? 3 SENATOR YOUNG: I'm sorry, 4 Senator, I didn't hear you. 5 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Senator, are 6 you sure that agriculture is eligible for that 7 money? 8 SENATOR YOUNG: Yes, Senator 9 Aubertine, I am sure, because it's a 10 discretionary fund. And I can tell you 11 exactly where that fund is. It's under the 12 Public Protection Budget bill, on page 319. 13 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Well, 14 Senator -- would the Senator continue to 15 yield? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator Young, do you yield? 18 SENATOR YOUNG: Certainly. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 20 Senator yields. 21 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Senator, I 22 guess in working with you on this -- I 23 certainly look forward to that. And I hope 24 that in the future meetings that we have set

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(518) 371-8910 1 up -- I hope you're able to make, unlike the 2 last one. And I certainly would look forward 3 to working with you on this in the cleanup 4 language of this budget. 5 SENATOR YOUNG: I look forward to 6 doing the right thing for agriculture in the 7 state. Thank you, Senator. 8 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Thank you. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 10 you, Senator. 11 Senator Saland. 12 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, 13 would Senator Kruger yield, please. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Senator Kruger, do you yield? 16 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, 17 Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 19 Senator yields. 20 SENATOR SALAND: Senator Kruger, 21 in your opening remarks you raised a number of 22 points, one of which was the fact that there 23 was some $6 billion in cuts -- excuse me, I'll 24 be very happy to yield to Senator DeFrancisco

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(518) 371-8910 1 if Senator DeFrancisco would like. 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No, go 3 ahead. 4 SENATOR SALAND: There was some 5 $6 billion in cuts contained in this budget. 6 First, could you started off by telling me 7 what is your base from which you make those 8 cuts? 9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 10 you, Mr. President, I don't fully understand 11 Senator Saland's question. 12 SENATOR SALAND: Well, if you're 13 making cuts, you're starting off at a certain 14 level. Are you using last year's budget as 15 your base, are you using the Governor's budget 16 as your base? What is your base for arriving 17 at those $6 billion in cuts? 18 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 19 you, Mr. President, the cuts were from last 20 year's budget. 21 SENATOR SALAND: And if Senator 22 Kruger would continue to yield. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 sponsor yields. 4 SENATOR SALAND: And how much was 5 the gross amount of last year's budget, 6 Senator Kruger? 7 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Last year's 8 budget was approximately $121.3 billion. 9 SENATOR SALAND: $121.3 billion? 10 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes. 11 SENATOR SALAND: If Senator 12 Kruger will continue to yield. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 15 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 17 Senator yields. 18 SENATOR SALAND: And what is the 19 amount of the budget that you are proposing 20 here currently today? 21 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: The budget 22 as proposed is approximately $131.9 billion. 23 SENATOR SALAND: So if last 24 year's budget was 121 -- and I'll take the

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(518) 371-8910 1 liberty of rounding up -- and this year's 2 budget is 139, there's a difference of 3 approximately $18 billion? 4 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 5 you, Mr. President, in fact that's not the 6 case. We increased -- through you, 7 Mr. President, All Funds spending was 8 increased by about $10 billion. 9 SENATOR SALAND: Well, help me 10 with the math, please. If Senator Kruger will 11 yield. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 13 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 15 Mr. President. 16 SENATOR SALAND: If you can help 17 me with the math -- I'm sorry, 132. I 18 apologize. So it's a difference of 19 approximately $12 billion -- $11 billion, I 20 take that back. 21 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: About. 22 Approximately, yes. 23 SENATOR SALAND: And from that we 24 subtract 6 billion that represent cuts that

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(518) 371-8910 1 were taken from last year's base? 2 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 3 you, Mr. President, 6 billion is General Fund 4 cuts. While yet at the same time, as I 5 pointed out, our budget a relatively flat 6 under General Funds. 7 SENATOR SALAND: Senator Kruger, 8 if you'll continue to yield. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 11 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 12 Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 14 Senator yields. 15 SENATOR SALAND: And excuse me 16 for rounding off numbers. This year's budget 17 is $132 billion, All Funds. Last year's 18 budget -- and stop me if I'm wrong -- last 19 year's budget was 121, from which you cut some 20 $6 billion. You announced to us here today 21 that there are $6 billion in cuts, and you 22 said the base for that was last year's budget. 23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 24 you, Mr. President. General Fund versus

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(518) 371-8910 1 All Funds. And again, through you, 2 Mr. President, taking into account federal 3 stimulus money. 4 SENATOR SALAND: I haven't even 5 approached the subject of federal stimulus 6 monies. I'm not interested so much in the 7 source of our revenues; I'm interested in the 8 nature of our spending. 9 Senator Kruger, so we have 10 approximately $11 billion more in spending, 11 All Funds, in this year's budget. We cut 12 $6 billion from last year's spending. So 13 basically our base from last year would be 14 something in the nature of $115 billion. If 15 you wipe out the cuts, you're now talking in 16 terms of 132. So there's $17 billion in 17 spending in this year's budget that was not in 18 last year's budget; is that correct? 19 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 20 you, Mr. President. First of all, Senator 21 Saland, I don't know exactly what your 22 question is. But I do know that we're 23 comparing apples and oranges. We're talking 24 about All Funds, and then we're talking about

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(518) 371-8910 1 General Funds at the same time. 2 So through you, Mr. President, for 3 the purposes of clarity, can we define exactly 4 what we're talking about? 5 SENATOR SALAND: I think, through 6 you, Mr. President, all of my comments have 7 been to the All Funds budget. I know there 8 are not $132 billion in the General Fund. I 9 know there wasn't $121 billion in last year's 10 General Fund. I know that there are federal 11 dollars, and they're off -- what we used to 12 call off-budget dollars that helped comprise 13 that All Funds budget. So we're only talking 14 in terms of All Funds for our purposes now. 15 We know we have 132 billion in 16 All Funds, up 11 billion from last year. And 17 in your remarks, again, you said we cut 18 6 billion from last year. So how have we 19 spent the difference between 115 billion that 20 we spent last year and 132 billion that we're 21 spending this year? That's a $17 billion 22 swing. 23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 24 you, Mr. President. The All Funds does not

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(518) 371-8910 1 include, once again, the general stimulus 2 funds. So consequently, our spending is 3 virtually flat on General Funds. 4 SENATOR SALAND: Through you, 5 Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 7 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 8 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 10 Senator yields. 11 SENATOR SALAND: I think we're 12 talking past each other. I'm not asking you 13 to tell me the differences between the General 14 Fund and All Funds, I'm asking if you can 15 identify -- we both agree, I think, that we 16 have gone from last year's $115 billion All 17 Funds budget, after you've taken 6 billion in 18 cuts, and we've gone to $132 billion All Funds 19 budget this year. That includes the General 20 Fund, it includes offline items, and it 21 includes federal money. 22 Can you, as the Finance chair, tell 23 me, where's the 17 billion? How are we 24 spending it? I'm not asking why are we

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(518) 371-8910 1 spending it, I'm asking how are we spending 2 it. 3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Again, 4 through you, Mr. President, I want to just 5 once again reiterate that we're comparing two 6 different piles of money and we're comparing 7 two different funding sources. Our spending 8 is flat. The dollars speak for themselves. 9 And it's included in the budget, and it is the 10 way it is. 11 SENATOR SALAND: On the bill. 12 Thank you. Thank you, Senator 13 Kruger. 14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you, 15 Senator. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator Saland, on the bill. 18 SENATOR SALAND: Quite honestly, 19 sir, I am totally baffled that the Finance 20 chair doesn't quite understand that All Funds 21 are all funds, All Funds comprise a number of 22 different funds, and cannot tell me how we 23 arrived at $17 billion in additional spending. 24 I'm not asking to identify which

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(518) 371-8910 1 pot it came from. But you must be able to 2 paint in broad strokes. You must be able to 3 tell me how you got from the 115 after you, by 4 your own lips, told me you cut 6 to the 132. 5 I mean, give me a break. You talk 6 about drivel. There's absolutely nothing 7 there. The only thing historic about this 8 moment, if I can refer back to something that 9 Senator Kruger had to say, is depending upon 10 your vantage point, it represents high or low 11 for chutzpah. It's either the most 12 extraordinarily bold, in-your-face grab, or it 13 is the cesspool of all budgets. 14 The fact of the matter is when we 15 talk about a reform path -- and again, I'm 16 specifically picking words that the Finance 17 chair used. If this emulates reform or this 18 is what we think of as reform, then we truly, 19 truly are seeing the gulag at its best. 20 Because there's no reform here. 21 As Senator Skelos said in his 22 opening remarks, this is the first opportunity 23 we've had to discuss the budget. And when you 24 try and discuss the budget, there's no answers

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(518) 371-8910 1 for basic questions. The most basic question 2 you could possibly ask can't be answered. 3 Reform? Pick up a newspaper, any 4 newspaper, from one tip of the state to 5 another, and try and tell them this represents 6 reform. Look at the editorial comment. 7 There was some reference to a 8 precipice, we're at a precipice. Yes, we 9 truly are at a precipice. We have taken, 10 apparently, the stimulus money, built up 11 spending to a level that is totally 12 unsustainable, and we are going to drop off 13 that precipice once we exhaust that stimulus 14 money and don't have the resources to sustain 15 the spending. 16 When jobs flee, when people flee, I 17 don't know -- I understand the politics of it, 18 I don't understand the logic of it. We're 19 going to run out of sweeps. We're going to 20 run out of businesses. We're going to run out 21 of taxpayers. And the last member of the 22 Working Families Party can close the door on 23 the way out. 24 Thank you.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 2 you, Senator Saland. 3 Senator DeFrancisco. 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, I'd 5 request that Senator Kruger answer a few 6 questions. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 8 Senator Kruger, do you yield? 9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 11 Senator yields. 12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 13 you, Mr. President. Prior to answering 14 Senator DeFrancesco's questions, I just want 15 the record to reflect that I forgive Senator 16 Saland for calling our chamber a gulag. 17 Senator DeFrancesco. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Before I 19 ask the question, I will forgive Senator 20 Kruger for calling me "Senator DeFrancesco" 21 for the 55th time. 22 (Laughter.) 23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Touche. 24 Touche. I'll just call you Senator, okay?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 2 Senator Kruger yield to a question? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Kruger, do you yield to Senator 5 DeFrancisco? 6 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 7 Mr. President. 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 9 Kruger, you mentioned in your opening remarks 10 how you reached out in a bipartisan way, as 11 did your other members, to us in the hopes of 12 working out a bipartisan budget. 13 And I acknowledge that on 14 March 19th of this year, after many -- many, 15 many weeks after those many budget hearings we 16 sat through, you did send me a letter 17 indicating that you wanted my concepts or my 18 ideas about the budget. 19 And do you acknowledge, Senator 20 Kruger, that I did respond to you the very 21 following day and hand-delivered you a letter 22 on March 20th giving you some suggestions as 23 far as how the budget should look? 24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. Yes, through you. 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: And I'm 3 going to just ask you generally if you would 4 respond to another question. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Kruger, do you yield? 7 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 8 Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 10 Senator yields. 11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: That letter 12 included, that I sent, really a summary of the 13 Senate Republican budget proposal that we 14 unveiled several weeks earlier, including 15 cutting 1 percent from agency contracts, 16 consolidation of state agencies, a 5 percent 17 cut in state agency nonpersonnel service, 18 collecting cigarette tax, enhanced Medicaid 19 fraud acceleration, fraud coordination, 20 eliminate Executive unspent lump sum balances, 21 and the like. And I won't read all of them. 22 Did this budget include any of the 23 suggestions that the Republican conference 24 made with respect to the budget that should be

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(518) 371-8910 1 in place this year? 2 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, 3 through you, Mr. President. Senator -- I'll 4 call you Senator now. Senator, without 5 actually going point by point, item for item 6 within the budget, it would be difficult for 7 me to make those comparisons. 8 I will point out that we had 9 significant dialogue during the hearing 10 process. You and I spoke on many occasions. 11 We were sympathetic to many of the advocates 12 that came in front of us. And in many 13 instances the issues that were raised by the 14 advocates, although they might have not been 15 incorporated in the Executive Budget, reflect 16 the restorations that were made by this house 17 in the final budget, the agreed-upon budget. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 19 Senator Kruger continue to yield? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 23 Mr. President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator yields. 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 3 Kruger, many of the proposals that -- we're 4 going to give you another chance here, because 5 many of the proposals that we made we're going 6 to have amendments to the budget during the 7 course of this process. 8 But my next question is, did you 9 respond in any way to my letter that I sent 10 back to you on the 20th, some 11 days ago, to 11 continue the dialogue in a bipartisan fashion 12 that you indicated that you wanted to have in 13 your opening remarks? 14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 15 you, Mr. President. The leadership on the 16 Democratic side of this chamber has and 17 continues and will continue to have dialogue 18 and to reach out to our colleagues on the 19 other side of the aisle. 20 And whether that was condensed to 21 writing, whether it was verbal, the facts are 22 the facts, that meetings were held, 23 discussions took place, and this budget, 24 although, as I pointed out in my original

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(518) 371-8910 1 remarks, it is not reflective of everything 2 that we would have liked to see in terms of a 3 shared process, nevertheless is a process that 4 went forward in a shared environment. 5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 6 Senator Kruger continue to yield? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 8 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, for 10 one more question, Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 12 Senator yields. 13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, I 14 have several more questions. I don't know 15 which one to choose from. Are we in a hurry 16 tonight, is my next question. Can we get 17 these questions answered by the chairman of 18 Finance in an open, public budget meeting? 19 That's my next question. 20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 21 you, Mr. President, I believe that I've 22 attempted and will continue to answer your 23 questions to the best of my ability. 24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Thank you.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Would Senator Kruger yield to another 2 question? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Kruger, do you yield? 5 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes. Yes, 6 I do. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 8 Senator yields. 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 10 Kruger, you said the facts are the facts. 11 Isn't it a fact that you never responded to me 12 in writing, verbally or in any other way, in 13 Sanskrit or any other method of communication, 14 to my letter of March 20th of 2009? 15 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 16 you, Mr. President. To the best of my 17 recollection, certainly not in writing. But I 18 can't say that we didn't speak. 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, I 20 can. On the bill. I can. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Senator DeFrancisco, on the bill. 23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, let 24 me -- I have a couple of more questions.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 5 Senator yields. 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Now, 7 Senator Kruger, we were provided on our desks 8 and were provided earlier this morning with a 9 New York State Senate Finance Committee Budget 10 Fact Sheets, that I think you have one of 11 these on your desk. Everyone had one on his 12 desk. And on it is Senator Malcolm Smith -- 13 I'd ask him, but he's not in the chambers. 14 But you're on this book as the Senate Finance 15 chair; correct? 16 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: That's what 17 it says. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Okay. And 19 my question is this. If you'd turn to page 2 20 in this book concerning the 2009-2010 21 financial plan summary -- and I'll give you an 22 opportunity. Do you see that? Do you have 23 page 2? 24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Now, 2 Senator Kruger, you answered several questions 3 of Senator Saland, including the difference 4 between last year budget and this year's 5 budget. This year's budget being about 6 132 billion, with a B, and last year's budget 7 being about 121 billion. 8 Is that what you have on this sheet 9 of paper here, page 2? 10 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: All right. 12 And that's how you determined how much 13 additional all-purpose spending was done this 14 year; fair enough? Is that correct? 15 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes. 16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Now, would 17 Senator Kruger yield to another question? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 21 Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 23 Senator yields. 24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Isn't it

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(518) 371-8910 1 true, Senator Kruger, that the $121 billion 2 that you've got listed there is the amount in 3 the Executive Budget? And in fact, last 4 year's budget, according to the Budget Office, 5 was $119.6 billion. So about 2 billion less 6 than you've got represented here. 7 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 8 you, Mr. President, the Executive Budget says 9 121.3. Yes, it does say that. 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would he 11 yield to another question? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 13 Senator Kruger, will you yield? 14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I 15 will, Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 17 Senator yields. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I 19 understand this says the Executive Budget is 20 $121 billion. Isn't it true that that number 21 is not what was spent in last year's budget, 22 this is the budget that our Executive proposed 23 for this year? And that last year's budget 24 actually spent around $119 billion?

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(518) 371-8910 1 And I've got the budget -- I've got 2 something from the DOB if you want to take a 3 look at it. 4 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 5 you, Mr. President, yes, it does say 6 $121.3 billion, as proposed in the Executive 7 Budget. Yes, it does. 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: All right. 9 Would the Senator yield again? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 11 Senator, do you yield? 12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I 13 will, Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 15 Senator yields. 16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Isn't it 17 true that actually the increase in what we 18 spent from last year to what we're spending 19 this year isn't what the Executive Budget 20 started out with being proposed this year, but 21 it's what we actually spent last year, which 22 was $119.6 billion? Isn't that true? 23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 24 you, Mr. President, I don't have that number

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(518) 371-8910 1 in front of me. But yes, Senator, I guess it 2 is if that's what you say it is. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: All right. 4 Well, I'm only the ranker. And that's what 5 I -- I'm looking from the Department of Budget 6 here, the DOB, that they say $119.7 billion. 7 One more question on this topic. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 9 Senator Kruger, do you yield? 10 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 11 Mr. President. 12 And for the purposes of clarity, we 13 do not have last year's numbers on the sheet, 14 page 2, as the Senator indicated. We do have 15 this year's, which I once again point out is 16 121.3. The numbers are so huge they're 17 staggering. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 19 Kruger, if you accept my point that 20 $119 billion was actually spent last year and 21 what we're spending is $132 billion this year, 22 isn't that a $13 billion increase in spending, 23 actual increase in spending? As opposed to 24 what you just said was around $11 billion.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Because you're using the proposed Executive 2 Budget for your base. 3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 4 you, Mr. President. Senator, yes, we are. 5 Because if we want to look at the totality of 6 it, we have to also look at $860 million was 7 an increase due to a Medicaid caseload, and 8 $700 million was due to local share of the 9 Medicaid that passes through All Funds. 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would the 11 Senator continue to yield. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 13 Senator Kruger, do you yield? 14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 15 Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 17 Senator yields. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: So you 19 agree with me that the actual increase in 20 spending is 13 billion over last year, as 21 opposed to 11 billion? 22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yeah, in 23 fact -- and through you, Mr. President. Yes, 24 in fact, that -- those numbers may bear out.

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(518) 371-8910 1 But I do want to point out that we didn't do 2 last year's budget. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, on 4 the bill. I'll ask other questions as we go 5 along. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 7 Senator DeFrancisco, on the bill. 8 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you, 9 Mr. President. 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 11 Kruger had asked Senator Young how are we 12 going to pay for these few millions of dollars 13 of agricultural programs. We just figured out 14 that the Senate Majority, who did this budget 15 in what was supposed to be a bipartisan way, 16 just missed $2 billion in an analysis of how 17 much we spent this year over last year. 18 That $2 billion on page 2, if 19 everyone wants to read along, would make a 20 difference. They just said the percentage 21 change, an increase in what we're spending, is 22 8.65 percent. It's really closer to 23 10 percent of increased spending. 24 And it would seem to me that if

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(518) 371-8910 1 there -- we'll get into the stimulus money at 2 a later questioning area. But it would seem 3 to me that if you don't even know how much 4 your increasing spending -- I imagine if I 5 asked a series of questions -- oh, actually 6 Senator Saland asked them. What are you 7 spending it for, how do you determine what is 8 the priorities of spending, whether it's 9 agriculture or whether it's something like -- 10 and I don't know even what it is, the -- let's 11 see. Grants to community-based organizations 12 for asthma studies. Or specific lined-out 13 community-based health centers. Or health 14 promotion initiatives, lump sum, about 15 $4.5 million. 16 I mean, how do you make the 17 determination as to what the priorities are if 18 you don't even know how much you're spending 19 and what you're responding it on? 20 So I guess what I'm saying is that 21 this is just a microcosm of some of the 22 problems that could have been alleviated had 23 there been a process where this could have 24 been hashed out among all of us like we've

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(518) 371-8910 1 done in the past so these types of things 2 would not occur. 3 And once again, Senator Kruger will 4 have another opportunity to consider the 5 series of proposed changes in their budget or 6 considerations for their budget during the 7 course of our amendments as we go through the 8 process, because that's what we're really 9 going to present as we continue on with this 10 debate. 11 Thank you. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 13 you, Senator DeFrancisco. 14 Senator Fuschillo. 15 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you 16 very much, Mr. President. Will the sponsor 17 yield for a few questions with respect to 18 transportation issues? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 20 Senator Kruger, do you yield? 21 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I 22 would, Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 24 Senator yields.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: But perhaps 2 I should give an overview of the 3 transportation portion of the budget first, if 4 that's okay. 5 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: That would be 6 fine, sure. 7 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you, 8 Mr. President. 9 If we move to the transportation 10 portion of the budget, we have added 11 $3.7 billion, of which $3.6 billion is 12 representative from stimulus money. That 13 money is for highways and bridges and capital 14 infrastructure. Additionally, $20 million has 15 been added to transit aid, which does reflect 16 a 2 percent cut. $112 million was added for 17 local roads and bridges, and $100 million 18 fully restored multimodal portion of the 19 budget. 20 Now I would be prepared to take a 21 question. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Fuschillo. 24 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you

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(518) 371-8910 1 very much, Senator Kruger. I appreciate that. 2 There's about 200 pages of 3 Department of Transportation funding here. 4 What's the total amount? 5 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: I believe 6 it's $10.7 billion, if my memory serves me 7 correctly. 8 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you. 9 Would the Senator yield for another 10 question? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 13 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 14 Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 16 Senator yields. 17 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you 18 very much, Mr. President. 19 Senator Kruger, of that amount, 20 what is debt, what is bonded out, what is cash 21 of that 10 -- you had said $10 billion? 22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Right. 23 Just one moment, Mr. President. 24 Senator, in answer to your

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(518) 371-8910 1 question, the dollars that we're talking about 2 is basically appropriation authority and not 3 necessarily reflective of actual cash. It's 4 in the debt service bill, which we will be 5 doing a little later. 6 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay. Will 7 Senator Kruger please yield for a question? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 9 Senator, do you continue to yield? 10 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 12 Senator yields. 13 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you, 14 Senator. 15 So of the 10 billion, what is being 16 bonded out? 17 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Your 18 indulgence, Mr. President. One moment while 19 we put together our . . . 20 Through you, Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Yes, 22 Senator Kruger. 23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Without 24 exact numbers -- which I certainly, as we go

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(518) 371-8910 1 forward with the debate, I'll be able to 2 supply. But it's approximately $7 billion. 3 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you, 4 Senator. 5 Mr. President, will Senator Kruger 6 continue to yield? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 8 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, 10 Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 12 Senator yields. 13 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you, 14 Mr. President. Thank you, Senator Kruger. 15 So we're adding $7 billion of debt 16 to the State of New York? 17 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 18 you, Mr. President. No, in fact, not all of 19 that is bonded. 20 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay. Well, 21 Mr. President, will Senator Kruger please 22 yield? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 Senator yields. 4 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you, 5 Mr. President. Senator Kruger, thank you. 6 I had asked the question of the 7 $10 billion that you had mentioned is in this 8 200 pages of the bill that's on our desk. Am 9 I correct that you came back to me with an 10 answer that you said $7 billion will be bonded 11 out, out of the 10 billion? And then I had a 12 question for you, is that what we're adding to 13 the state debt, another $7 billion? 14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 15 you, Mr. President. Firstly, it's not in one 16 year, it's spread out over a number of years. 17 And not all of it is reflected in that 18 $7 billion number. 19 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. 20 President, will the Senator continue to yield? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Senator, do you continue to yield? 23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 24 Mr. President.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 2 Senator yields. 3 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Senator 4 Kruger, debt is debt. Whether it's today, 5 tomorrow, next year or five years from now, 6 it's still debt. 7 I just want to -- before we move on 8 to a few other questions, I'll ask the 9 question again. You had said that -- through 10 your counsel -- that these 200 pages add up to 11 $10 billion in this budget bill that we're 12 being considered right now. And I had asked 13 the question how much of the 10 billion is 14 debt. And you had said $7 billion, but you 15 said not all of that, because it's the 16 outyears. 17 So I'll just simplify my question. 18 Of the $10 billion, how much is that of debt 19 to the State of New York? 20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 21 you, Mr. President. Again, Senator, when 22 we're talking about the $7 billion worth of 23 debt -- 24 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Debt.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: -- capital, 2 I'm sorry, this is something that's spread out 3 over a number of years. It's not something 4 that we're totally expending in 2009-2010. 5 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay. So, 6 Mr. President, so debt is debt. So it's 7 $7 billion. I'll take that as an answer. 8 Would Senator Kruger continue to 9 yield for a question? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 11 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 13 Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 15 Senator yields. 16 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you, 17 Mr. President. Thank you, Senator. 18 You had mentioned in your opening 19 statement when you gave the chambers a brief 20 on the transportation package that 21 $112 million is for local roads. Is that 22 correct? 23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Roads and 24 bridges, yes.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Would the 2 Senator continue to yield? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator, will you yield? 5 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 6 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Is that 7 $112 million broken out into regions in the 8 budget? And if so, could you tell us what 9 regions are getting what? 10 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 11 you, Mr. President. The package that we're 12 talking about is approximately $361 or 13 $362 million overall. $112 million is what 14 was restoration from the Executive, cuts from 15 the Executive. 16 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. 17 President, through you, would Senator Kruger 18 continue to yield? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 20 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 21 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 23 Senator yields. 24 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. Thank you, Senator Kruger. 2 No, I understand that, and that's 3 how I started my question off, with what you 4 stated when you briefed the chamber, is that 5 $112 million is for roads and bridges. 6 My question, and I'll ask you 7 again, is that $112 million broken down in the 8 budget that you're asking us to vote on by 9 regions throughout the state? And if so, what 10 is each region receiving of the $112 million 11 for roads, highways, and bridges? 12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 13 you, Mr. President. Senator, those runs are 14 being calculated by DOT, and they will be 15 available. 16 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay. 17 Mr. President, through you, would Senator 18 Kruger continue to yield? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 20 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 21 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 22 Mr. President. 23 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you. 24 Thank you, Senator Kruger.

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(518) 371-8910 1 So in the document we're looking at 2 now, that $112 million is not broken down into 3 regions; is that correct? 4 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 5 you, Mr. President. Once again, DOT, under 6 their own rules and regulations and law, will 7 be breaking this down by region and it will be 8 part of those runs. 9 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay. So 10 I'll take that as an answer that it's not. 11 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: That's your 12 prerogative. 13 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. 14 President, through you, would Senator Kruger 15 continue to yield? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 18 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 20 Senator yields. 21 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you 22 very much, Mr. President. Senator Kruger, 23 thank you. 24 You had mentioned in your briefing

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(518) 371-8910 1 to this chamber that $100 million of that pot 2 is for multimodal projects. Is that being 3 broken down and lined out in the document 4 before us in regions throughout the State of 5 New York? 6 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Okay. 7 Through you, Mr. President. Firstly, that's 8 not part of the $112 million. That is the 9 100 million restored out of the multimodal. 10 And that would be part of a grant formula that 11 would be submitted by the localities to DOT. 12 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you 13 very much. Would the Senator continue to 14 yield? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 16 Senator, do you yield? 17 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 18 Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 20 Senator yields. 21 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Senator, 22 could you talk about what happened to CHIPS 23 funding in this budget? 24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Through you, Mr. President. The CHIPS, I 2 believe, Senator, you're talking about the 3 $112 million for local roads and bridges? 4 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: No. 5 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, 6 that -- through you, Mr. President. 7 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: If that's 8 your answer. Is that your answer? 9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: That's my 10 answer. 11 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay. 12 Through you, Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 15 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 17 Senator yields. 18 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: I'm not 19 talking about the $112 million, I'm talking 20 about over $300 million in CHIPS funding that 21 I believe was restored. My question to you 22 is, how much of that is bonding indebtedness 23 to the State of New York? 24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through

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(518) 371-8910 1 you, Mr. President, $3.6 million. 2 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. 3 President, will the Senator continue to yield? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 5 Senator, do you yield? 6 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 8 Senator yields. 9 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Senator, 10 $3.6 million of $363 million is what's bonded 11 out? Is that correct? Is that your answer, 12 1 percent? 13 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 14 you, Mr. President. It's all bonded. My 15 mistake. 3.6 represents cash out. 16 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you 17 very much. I appreciate that. 18 Let's talk about the MTA, Senator 19 Kruger. Does this package include any new 20 funding to the MTA? 21 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 22 you, Mr. President. No, it does not. 23 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay. 24 Mr. President, would the Senator continue to

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(518) 371-8910 1 yield? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator, do you yield? 4 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 5 Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 7 Senator yields. 8 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you 9 very much. 10 Does this package on our desks 11 contain an MTA bailout program that's been 12 talked about so much? 13 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 14 you, Mr. President. No, it does not. 15 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay. Would 16 the Senator continue to yield? And thank you. 17 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 19 Senator yields. 20 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you, 21 Senator Kruger. 22 Let's talk about the Dedicated 23 Highway, Bridge and Trust Fund collected in 24 this budget. What are the dollar amounts that

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(518) 371-8910 1 would be collected? 2 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: For 3 clarification, through you, Mr. President. 4 Collected or disbursed? 5 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Both. You 6 can take part one. Collected. Collected. 7 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Back to the 8 chorus. Collected? Through you, Mr. 9 President. Again, approximate numbers. 10 Approximate collected, $5 billion. Disbursed, 11 $5 billion. Cash in, cash out. 12 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you 13 very much, Senator. 14 Would the Senator continue to 15 yield, Mr. President? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator, do you continue to yield? 18 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 19 Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 21 Senator yields. 22 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you, 23 Senator Kruger. Of that amount, how much will 24 actually be used for construction purposes?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 2 you, Mr. President, approximately 3 $1.8 billion. 4 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you 5 very much, Senator. 6 Mr. President, would the Senator 7 continue to yield? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 9 Senator, do you yield? 10 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 11 Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 13 Senator yields. 14 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Senator 15 Kruger, thank you. Final question. Are there 16 any tax credits for any aviation programs or 17 initiatives throughout the state in this 18 package here? 19 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 20 you, Mr. President. No, not in this bill, 21 Senator. 22 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Final 23 question, Mr. President. Will he continue to 24 yield?

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Cross your 4 heart? 5 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Are you 6 asking me a question? 7 (Laughter.) 8 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Senator 9 Kruger, last night Senator Smith, your 10 Majority Leader, stated that this budget will 11 create -- 12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Libous, why do you rise? 15 SENATOR LIBOUS: I apologize, but 16 for some reason I cannot hear Senator 17 Fuschillo. If Senator Fuschillo could speak a 18 little louder, please. 19 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: I'll be happy 20 to, Senator Libous. 21 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, 22 Mr. President. 23 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Senator 24 Kruger, last night I was watching a program

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(518) 371-8910 1 where Senator Smith, your Majority Leader, was 2 on TV and talked about how this budget will 3 create 50,000 new construction jobs in the 4 transportation field. 5 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Excuse me. 6 Can you repeat that, Senator? I'm sorry. 7 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Sure. 8 Majority Leader Smith stated last night that 9 50,000 new transportation jobs will be 10 created. Can you tell me how we will find 11 50,000 new transportation jobs? 12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 13 you, Mr. President. Firstly, I did not see 14 that TV program, so I can't comment. 15 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay. Thank 16 you very much, Senator Krueger. 17 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you, 18 Senator. 19 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: On the bill. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Fuschillo, on the bill. 22 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: It concerns 23 me greatly that there are so many individuals 24 out in my region on Long Island, and other

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(518) 371-8910 1 regions throughout this state, that work on 2 our highways, roads and bridges that are out 3 of work and have been out of work for a long 4 time because the Governor essentially has 5 frozen all projections. 6 And I appreciate the response from 7 the chair of the Finance Committee, but it's a 8 great concern to me that this budget does not 9 spell out where the money for roads and 10 bridges is going and for multimodal projects. 11 And it looks like it's just a pot of money 12 that's out there at the whim of this Governor 13 to present to where he thinks it is deemed 14 fit. 15 Now, on Long Island the Governor 16 has talked about filling -- bringing down 17 $154 million in transportation projects. But 18 last year, we still have $154 million in 19 projects that haven't been funded that are 20 shovel-ready and ready to go and put people 21 back to work. 22 This year on Long Island, according 23 to the DOT regional director, there's another 24 $250 and $300 million in projects that are

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(518) 371-8910 1 necessary to maintain the infrastructure, and 2 they're not being addressed in this budget. 3 They're not being addressed in these 200 pages 4 of a $10 billion document that's going to cost 5 the state more than $7 billion in 6 indebtedness. Whether it's today or tomorrow, 7 a year from now or two years from now, debt is 8 debt. 9 So we're voting on a package that's 10 going to increase the state's debt by 11 $7 billion out of $10 billion, and the other 12 part of the money is just being passed through 13 from the federal government. So the state is 14 not putting up anything. We're saying to our 15 children and grandchildren and everybody in 16 this room and the 19 million people in the 17 State of New York: Sure, we're going to give 18 you money for roads and bridges, but you're 19 going to be paying for it for the rest of your 20 life because we're not putting any cash in 21 this budget, it's all bonded out to the tune 22 of $7 billion. 23 Thank you very much, Mr. President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank

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(518) 371-8910 1 you, Senator Fuschillo. 2 Senator Winner. 3 SENATOR WINNER: Thank you, 4 Mr. President. 5 You know, the title of this bill 6 that we're dealing with is Transportation, 7 Economic Development, and Environmental 8 Conservation. And I'd like to speak a little 9 bit on this bill with regard to the economic 10 development or lack thereof that really is 11 contained in this year's budget. 12 I heard Senator Stachowski attempt 13 to gloss over the devastation that is being 14 done in this proposal as it relates to the 15 Empire Zone program. And I just would like to 16 follow up by indicating that, you know, not 17 too long ago in this state we listened to a 18 campaign in 2006, fall, for the Governor's 19 race, where the upstate economy was the 20 clarion call of then-Candidate Spitzer. And 21 certainly that clarion call was one of the 22 reasons why a lot of people in upstate 23 New York rallied around his candidacy and 24 suggested that we have economic development

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(518) 371-8910 1 and upstate efforts improved to a significant 2 degree. 3 And, you know, we listened for a 4 whole year with an upstate development 5 revitalization fund proposal. We listened to 6 all kinds of calls for assisting the upstate 7 economy and mandate relief and other types of 8 efforts -- Power for Jobs, these other 9 incentives that we were trying to offer here 10 to try to get what was characterized as a 11 moribund upstate economy moving again. 12 And we thought that we were going 13 to make some progress, only to hit the wall, 14 not only with Governor Spitzer not being able 15 to deliver on many of those promises but in 16 fact now, with this budget and with the 17 proposals that Governor Paterson and the 18 Majority has put together, we have a 19 non-economic development package here that is 20 obviously going wreak havoc with any types of 21 efforts to revitalize our upstate economy as 22 well as the economy of the whole State of 23 New York. 24 You know, in the first State of the

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(518) 371-8910 1 State address from the Governor we heard that, 2 and I quote: "Most importantly, we must lower 3 the cost of doing business in New York. 4 Property taxes are too high. We should cap 5 them. State mandates are too burdensome. We 6 should relief them. Local government is too 7 costly. We should help it become more 8 efficient. And we must also reaffirm to our 9 commitment to specific programs and projects 10 targeted at revitalizing upstate." 11 Now, those were nice words. And 12 when his budget proposal came out, he actually 13 made some specific proposals. He specifically 14 included a new $50 million New York Growth, 15 Achievement and Investment Strategy, a GAINS 16 fund; a new research and development tax 17 credit; and an expansion of the existing 18 research and development tax credit. 19 You know, then all of a sudden, on 20 March 29, when this agreement was announced 21 and the legislative leaders or the three 22 New York City Democrats came out of the room 23 and announced that they had a budget, what was 24 in there with regard to those items? Not a

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(518) 371-8910 1 single one. Not only wasn't a single one of 2 them in there, but many of the proposals that 3 he had advanced with regard to his so-called 4 reform of the Empire Zones were in fact in 5 there. And those reforms are going to do 6 nothing other than devastate the ability to 7 try to be competitive in New York State for 8 economic development. 9 Let's go back for a minute. Why do 10 we have an Empire Zone program? Why did we 11 have one in the early '80s when we developed 12 this in order to create an economic 13 development fund, a zones program? We did so 14 because New York State was uncompetitive when 15 it came to attracting business and industry. 16 And why were we uncompetitive? And 17 what are the major factors that we have to 18 deal with when it comes to economic 19 development and to try to develop new 20 businesses in this state? We have -- the 21 major costs are what? Health insurance, 22 personal income tax costs, energy costs, real 23 property tax payments? Those are the major 24 costs that businesses experience in trying to

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(518) 371-8910 1 determine where they're going to go. 2 And what does this state do? This 3 state has the highest energy costs practically 4 in the country, in the continental United 5 States. And what are we going to do in this 6 budget? We're going to increase them even 7 more. 8 We're now going to have a personal 9 income tax increase that will be 10 noncompetitive, particularly along our border 11 states. We have health insurance costs that 12 now we're going to increase by taxing the 13 premiums and the so-called covered lives 14 assessments. And on and on and on. 15 Our real property tax levies are 16 uncompetitive, as we all know, the highest 17 state and local combined tax burden in the 18 country. 19 So that's why we have to have a 20 competitive program, incentive program, with 21 which to try to entice whoever is foolish 22 enough to consider New York as a site to do 23 business, we have to entice them with the 24 ability to mitigate against those costs. And

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(518) 371-8910 1 that's why we had an Empire Zone program which 2 was designed to deal with those elements of 3 the cost of doing business in New York State. 4 It's unfortunate we have to have an 5 Empire Zone program. But we certainly have to 6 if we're going to be at all competitive and 7 attract anybody in here. 8 So what did we do this year? We 9 did the so-called reform of the Empire Zone 10 program. The only economic development tool 11 that we have upstate to try to mitigate 12 against those high costs, what did we do? We 13 have effectively gutted it and put it out of 14 business. We have expedited the sunset date 15 by one year. We have minimized the real 16 property benefit that it will produce, one of 17 the major noncompetitive items we have. We 18 have eliminated the ability of new Empire Zone 19 designees to be able to take full benefit of 20 the sales-tax exemptions, another 21 noncompetitive item. 22 And we have certainly, now, with 23 the 20-to-1 ratio proposal, eliminated almost 24 all of the Empire Zone-eligible businesses

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(518) 371-8910 1 that had previously received benefits in most 2 of the upstate Empire Zone boundaries. 3 So for anybody to get on this floor 4 and suggest that these are reasonable 5 reforms -- these are measures that are 6 designed to eliminate the Empire Zone program 7 and eliminate its effectiveness and make our 8 state back in the dark ages of 9 noncompetitiveness, as we were in the past and 10 we were in the early '80s. 11 This is a disaster, this proposal. 12 And it is the most anti-upstate New York 13 proposal that I have seen in my 31 years of 14 elected office in New York State. 15 And I think that this measure 16 should certainly go back to the drawing board. 17 And in a later bill, where there is specific 18 language with regard to the Empire Zone 19 program, we will be offering an amendment to 20 so do so. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 22 you, Senator Winner. 23 Senator Nozzolio. 24 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. Mr. President, will Senator 2 Kruger yield? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Kruger, do you yield? 5 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 6 Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 8 Senator yields. 9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you very 10 much, Senator Kruger, for yielding. 11 My question gets back to Senator 12 Fuschillo's question to you about Senator 13 Malcolm Smith's comments last evening. I had 14 the particular program TiVo'd so I could play 15 it back. And I had to play it back two or 16 three times because I could not believe what I 17 heard. Senator Smith indicated that the 18 transportation portion of this budget would 19 create 50,000 jobs. 20 Now, Senator Kruger, I respect 21 certainly the fact that you said you did not 22 see the program and you deferred comment on 23 that program. But let me ask you this through 24 the chair. Would Senator Kruger advise this

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(518) 371-8910 1 house how many jobs will be created by the 2 transportation budget? 3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 4 you, Mr. President, let me try to expand on 5 that question if that's okay with you, 6 Senator. 7 For every million dollars that we 8 put into transit and ground passenger 9 transportation, we create, by industry 10 standards, approximately 31 jobs in all 11 industries throughout the state. Likewise, 12 for every million dollars that we put into 13 construction, 15 jobs are created in 14 industries throughout the state. Thus, the 15 $1.4 billion in mass transit stimulus money 16 would create approximately 44,000 new jobs -- 17 or, rather, 44,000 jobs in all the industrial 18 sectors throughout the state. 19 The $1.1 billion in stimulus money 20 for roads and bridges, which are entirely for 21 construction -- which we don't have the means, 22 by the way, of breaking down what would be for 23 engineering, concrete, steel, and the other 24 components -- would create over 16,000 jobs in

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(518) 371-8910 1 all industries. 2 Thus, we have a total job creation 3 of over 60,000 jobs for the $2.5 billion in 4 stimulus money that is guaranteed by this 5 state upon the passage of this budget. 6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, 7 Senator Kruger. 8 Mr. President, on the bill. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Nozzolio, on the bill. 11 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you. 12 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I believe part 13 of the equation missing from the discussion of 14 transportation jobs should be an analysis of 15 how the moving van companies of this state 16 will benefit by the budget that we're passing 17 over the next 48 hours. Because there will be 18 more people moving out of this state as a 19 result of the higher taxes, of the higher 20 spending, of the lack of economic development, 21 of the trashing of the Empire Zone program. 22 Senator Winner indicated his 23 concerns for economic development, 24 particularly for upstate manufacturers. The

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(518) 371-8910 1 largest number of manufacturing jobs to come 2 into New York State over the last two and a 3 half decades, over the last 25 years came to 4 the Central Finger Lakes, in Geneva, New York, 5 in the late 1990s, in large part because of 6 the Empire Zone program as it existed, as it 7 exists prior to the trashing of the program 8 that this budget will create. 9 That company is Guardian Glass, and 10 they're located in Geneva. But their 11 headquarters is in Michigan. And they are now 12 looking at whether or not to expand their 13 plant and invest $17 million into that plant 14 that's in the Geneva Empire Zone. They are 15 going to be thinking two and three times 16 because of this budget that is before us this 17 evening. 18 There's another factory that's on 19 the border of my district in Cayuga County 20 that's in Senator Valesky's district, owned by 21 Owens Illinois, an Ohio company. Again, a 22 glass manufacturer that is considering whether 23 or not to invest an additional $25 million 24 into new technology and to retrofit some of

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(518) 371-8910 1 their manufacturing facility in Cayuga County. 2 As a result of this Empire Zone trashing that 3 is now before us, they may make a decision to 4 the contrary and not invest in New York State. 5 And there are countless other 6 projects across this state that are in 7 jeopardy because of what is put forward and 8 what we are voting on today. 9 Senator Young had brought up the 10 issue of agriculture, and I'd like to present 11 some of my remarks on that portion of the 12 debate this evening. And it's a question of 13 priority. Senator DeFrancisco mentioned other 14 elements of the state budget that were 15 increased as a result of the proposal before 16 us today. 17 The question of priority is this. 18 There is one number-one industry in New York 19 State. Only one can be number one. And most 20 New Yorkers don't know that agriculture is our 21 number-one industry. Most people outside of 22 New York are surprised to learn that 23 agriculture is the number-one job producer in 24 New York. We have developed the science to

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(518) 371-8910 1 develop the agriculture, the value added that 2 puts us ahead of not only agriculture 3 enterprise in other states but all the 4 agricultural enterprise in the world. 5 America no longer makes the best or 6 most competitive automobiles. We no longer 7 compete as successfully on the world and 8 global marketplace as we used to with 9 manufacturing and other products. But our 10 agricultural commodities are still extremely 11 competitive. And yet what happened in this 12 budget is that the priority for the number-one 13 job-producing industry has basically been cast 14 aside. We're spending $5 million in this 15 budget for community-based organizations for 16 eviction-prevention services. Now, eviction 17 prevention means we can send out a note today: 18 You won't be evicted if you pay your rent. 19 That's great eviction-prevention services. 20 Frankly, though, that $5 million 21 that goes to community-based organizations -- 22 and where have we heard those words before -- 23 those community-based organizations may want 24 to focus on the farmers of this state because

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(518) 371-8910 1 our farmers are going to be evicted and 2 foreclosed because of the crisis that they're 3 now being confronted with. 4 The Majority could have easily 5 taken part of that eviction community-based 6 services and support agriculture. Or, as 7 Senator Young said, that $1 billion from the 8 federal government to say that we want to keep 9 our New York State agriculture more 10 competitive than any other agriculture in the 11 world. 12 I find it ironic, and sadly so, 13 when Senator Kruger said the days of wine and 14 roses in New York State are over. Well, the 15 days of growing roses is challenged. And the 16 days of wine in New York State I guess are 17 still there, but we're going to be taxing wine 18 at a higher rate, almost a 30 percent increase 19 in the tax of wine, because of this 20 legislation, this bill that we're going to be 21 having before us. 22 So the answer is, from the other 23 side of the aisle -- an answer that we really 24 didn't know about until fewer than 36 hours

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(518) 371-8910 1 ago -- that the answer on their side of the 2 aisle, more taxes. The answer on the other 3 side of the aisle is spending in areas that 4 don't produce jobs but, rather, take jobs 5 away, that don't support our agriculture, the 6 number-one industry of our state -- 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Excuse 8 me, Senator Nozzolio. Excuse me, Senator 9 Nozzolio. 10 Senator Krueger, why do you rise? 11 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Will 12 Senator Nozzolio please yield for a question? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Nozzolio, do you yield? 15 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 16 I've been waiting to say this for so long. I 17 would be happy to yield to Senator Krueger 18 when I'm finished with my remarks. 19 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President 21 and my colleagues, agriculture is the 22 number-one industry, it's the number-one 23 industry because we support its science, we 24 support the fact that it is a job developer

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(518) 371-8910 1 because in fact we compete on a global 2 marketplace. 3 And whether it's apples that are 4 grown in Wayne County or Madison County, 5 whether it's the protection and marketing of 6 our beef producers' products, whether it's 7 science developed at the Cornell College of 8 Agriculture or the Experiment Station in 9 Geneva, it needs to be supported as a 10 priority. And the priority is missing. It's 11 absent by what's being presented to us today. 12 In spite of the fact that Senator 13 DeFrancisco pointed out there is a horrendous 14 growth in spending, way over $10 billion of 15 additional spending over last year. And that 16 that spending, in effect, seems to be missing 17 when it comes to the number-one industry of 18 our state. 19 Thank you, Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 21 you, Senator Nozzolio. 22 Do you now yield to Senator Liz 23 Krueger? 24 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. Yes, I do. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 Senator yields. 4 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 5 Senator Nozzolio. 6 My understanding was we were 7 discussing the TEDE bill, and you were 8 discussing agriculture. So where in the bill 9 is the $5 million for eviction-prevention 10 services? 11 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator 12 Krueger, where is it? 13 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, sir. 14 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: As we 15 understand it, it is under some select 16 discretionary American Recovery and 17 Reinvestment Act spending. That I'm not 18 certain exactly what section of the budget 19 that is in, but it is one of the enumerated 20 projects listed in that portion of the budget. 21 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Senator 22 Nozzolio, it's possible that in fact we're 23 talking about the ELFA bill, where there is in 24 fact social services funding for eviction

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(518) 371-8910 1 prevention. And it's possible that we're 2 talking about the federal stimulus money which 3 has some, quote, homelessness prevention 4 monies that gets passed through the state. 5 Would you agree that might be where 6 it is? 7 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: There 8 certainly are a lot of possibilities, Senator 9 Krueger. 10 My issue, though, is not where that 11 money is or even the criteria for its 12 particular spending. My issue is a question 13 of priority. And of all this money coming to 14 the State of New York from the federal 15 government, it seems as though the stimulation 16 of our number-one industry, which produces the 17 most amount of jobs in our state, certainly 18 should not be absent. 19 And that whether our Congressional 20 delegation should have gotten a clearer signal 21 that we wanted more support for agriculture, 22 or whether this budget, which was debated by 23 your conference in the most egregious of 24 ways -- there was absolutely no transparency

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(518) 371-8910 1 in any of the discussions -- there were no 2 discussions. There was no debate. There was 3 no presentation of positions until the latest 4 of times. 5 Because of that, we at this 12th 6 hour are being displayed here a budget that 7 shows misplaced priorities. It's up to you, 8 the proponents of this budget, to tell us why 9 you decided to place the priorities away from 10 the number-one industry of our state. 11 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 12 Mr. President, if through you the 13 Senator would continue to yield. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Senator Nozzolio, do you continue to yield? 16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, 17 Mr. President. I'd be happy to yield. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 19 Senator yields. 20 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 21 Again, the reason I rose was my 22 belief that in fact there was an incorrect 23 assumption on the floor that somehow 24 agriculture, environment or transportation

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(518) 371-8910 1 money was, quote unquote, being taken for 2 eviction prevention, because I don't believe 3 we are taking any money of this bill for 4 eviction prevention. 5 But my question to you, Senator, is 6 do you really believe that in a horrendous 7 economic crisis where we are seeing people 8 lose their homes daily, where we are seeing 9 families at risk of having their children 10 taken away from them because they are evicted 11 from their homes, and where we have, at least 12 in my district, a disproportionately large 13 number of elderly people who are at risk of 14 losing that their homes, that it is actually a 15 bad use of $5 million of government money -- 16 not even within the bill we're discussing 17 tonight -- being used to help assure that 18 families with children and elderly people can 19 stay in their homes? 20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 21 through you. That it would be wonderful if 22 Senator Krueger would explain to this body 23 where that money is coming from, what that 24 money is going to be used for, where is that

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(518) 371-8910 1 money going to be spent, how much of that 2 money is going to be spent in Yates County, 3 Seneca County, Schuyler County, Cayuga County, 4 Wayne County, even Monroe County. How much of 5 those funds are going to be going north of the 6 Tappan Zee Bridge? How much of those funds 7 are going to be distributed to Buffalo and 8 Albany and the upstate region? 9 If Senator Krueger pro-offers this 10 as an expenditure that should be made instead 11 of agricultural support, then Senator Krueger 12 is obligated to delineate the exact source and 13 distribution of those funds. 14 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr. 15 President, may I answer the question? I 16 believe I'm asked a question. So I'm not sure 17 if I should ask the Senator to yield or I 18 should be happy to answer his question. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Well, 20 he actually was answering your question. So 21 if you would like him to continue to yield, 22 that would be appropriate. 23 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Senator, 24 will you yield so I may answer your question?

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Nozzolio, do you continue to yield? 3 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I'll be happy 4 to yield. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 6 Senator yields. 7 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you 8 very much, Mr. President. 9 Yes, I would be delighted to talk 10 about the monies. Primarily there's two pots 11 of funds -- again, not in this bill, so it's 12 not in an either/or. We are not taking money 13 from agriculture or the environment or 14 transportation to shift to social services. 15 There is federal money for 16 homelessness prevention, approximately 17 $142 million, in the stimulus package. There 18 is a formula. Each and every county of the 19 State of New York will get a share of that 20 money, primarily through their social services 21 departments, although they may contract it 22 out, again, to not-for-profit organizations. 23 And in fact through the TANF, 24 Temporary Assistance to Needy Families funds,

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(518) 371-8910 1 both the emergency and contingency funds 2 through federal stimulus and ongoing TANF 3 money that's a federal mandated program, we 4 have funded for a significant number of years 5 approximately $5 to $10 million in 6 eviction-prevention contracts that also is 7 distributed. Again, some of them are 8 specifically to the City of New York, and 9 other monies are distributed through county 10 social services. 11 I would hazard to guess there is no 12 county in the state that doesn't provide some 13 kind of eviction-prevention services through 14 some kind of government monies, because what 15 they have learned is it is much more 16 cost-effective to prevent a family from losing 17 their home and ending up homeless, it is much 18 more cost-effective to prevent a senior 19 citizen from losing their home. And in fact, 20 too often senior citizens may end up in 21 hospitals or nursing homes if they lose their 22 homes. 23 I can speak at length, if you like, 24 about the eviction-prevention services in

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(518) 371-8910 1 New York City because in fact, before the year 2 2000, when I left my job to run for the 3 New York State Senate, I actually had a 4 contract to run eviction-prevention services 5 in the City of New York under contract with 6 the government. 7 And I can tell you that we saw 8 thousands of families per year who had 9 children -- under our contract, it was serving 10 families with children -- who were at risk of 11 losing their home and losing their children to 12 the child welfare system and ending up in the 13 shelter system. And we had at that time -- 14 and again, it's quite a few years ago -- but a 15 minimum of a 20-to-1 ratio of cost savings to 16 government by preventing people from losing 17 their homes. 18 Obviously in your district there 19 would be different issues with eviction 20 prevention than perhaps in Senator Lanza's 21 district or in some other Senator's district. 22 But unfortunately in every county of New York 23 State, and every Senate district, there are 24 some number of people who find themselves at

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(518) 371-8910 1 risk of eviction for some reason. And if they 2 lose that home, pretty much guarantee it will 3 cost the government far more than it spends. 4 And again, I'd be happy to debate 5 the issue further when we get to the ELFA 6 budget, where in fact those dollars and cents 7 are. But again, I just for the record want to 8 make clear there is no proposal to take money 9 out of the TEDE bill to use it for social 10 services. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator Krueger, did you have a question for 13 Senator Nozzolio? 14 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: No, my 15 question was to agree to answer his question. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator Nozzolio, you still have the floor. 18 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, 19 Mr. President. Continuing on the bill. 20 Thank you, Senator Krueger, for 21 your elaboration of those services. Frankly, 22 Senator Krueger's expertise in eviction 23 prevention is going to be sorely needed in the 24 upstate region because of those who haven't

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(518) 371-8910 1 found the appropriate moving van to move out 2 of New York State as a result of higher taxes, 3 greater regulation, and lack of support for 4 agriculture. 5 There are going to be farmers who 6 are still here who will be evicted -- 7 foreclosed may be a more appropriate 8 comment -- because there is not sufficient 9 support for them in a massive federal stimulus 10 package that in effect the other side of the 11 aisle -- 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Excuse 13 me, Senator Nozzolio. Excuse me for one just 14 one moment. 15 Senator Stachowski, why do you 16 rise? 17 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: I was 18 wondering if Senator Nozzolio would yield for 19 a question. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Nozzolio, do you yield? 22 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I'd be happy 23 to yield to Senator Stachowski. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator yields. 2 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Senator 3 Nozzolio, I listened with great interest as 4 you talked about a couple of manufacturing 5 companies that will now be hurt because of 6 changes made in this budget to the Empire 7 Zones. And my question would be is the 8 changes made would now make the goal they have 9 to reach 1 to 1. The average manufacturing 10 company hits 7 to 1, 6 to 1, 8 to 1, 14 to 1, 11 but they don't hit 20 to 1 that the Governor 12 had in his budget on a lookback. 13 And so that that change is made to 14 try to make it better for manufacturing 15 companies. And the change on the date moves 16 it up a year or actually maybe a few more 17 months than that, it might be 18 months. So 18 that a new program that recognizes that 19 manufacturing companies have certain 20 difficulties hitting numbers like 20 to 1 and 21 that other industries like biotechs have 22 trouble hitting 20 to 1 no matter how 23 successful they are. 24 So the reason for that move-up of

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(518) 371-8910 1 the date, rather than to decimate the program, 2 was to put in a new program that's currently 3 being worked on by all the economic 4 development groups from across the state, from 5 Buffalo to Rochester to Syracuse to New York 6 City to Albany. They're all involved, along 7 with the Business Council, working with the 8 Governor's people, trying to come together 9 with a multipronged system that doesn't just 10 base it on location and on a 20-to-1 lookback, 11 which the Governor's proposal did. And this 12 proposal in this budget doesn't. 13 So the reality is that your 14 manufacturing company should have no trouble 15 meeting 1 to 1. The question is, are you 16 aware of that, that the alternative was to let 17 the Governor's plan stand with a 20-to-1 18 lookback? 19 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: In response, 20 through you, Mr. President, that Senator 21 Stachowski, who himself was an athlete well 22 into the college years, knows very well that 23 to play a game, that if the rules are changed 24 in the middle of the game it creates havoc for

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(518) 371-8910 1 the teams that are on the field. 2 Imagine a company that decided to 3 invest multimillions of dollars in New York 4 State. And then to have the zone program 5 dramatically altered in the middle of their 6 operations here creates a great amount of 7 confusion and does not inspire investment into 8 New York State. 9 And that is the problem here, 10 Senator, that the lack of continuity and 11 consistency creates confusion. And that 12 confusion tells the corporate headquarters, 13 whether they be in Michigan or Ohio or 14 someplace else, that New York is not a 15 reliable state to be able to invest in the 16 future. 17 And yes, this may be a more 18 favorable result than what the Governor or 19 others had originally proposed, but it still 20 creates a great deal of uncertainty. There's 21 uncertainty, as Senator Winner said, in the 22 program itself, which in terms of its 23 existence is -- in terms of its length of 24 duration is changed by this legislation, as

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(518) 371-8910 1 well as the amount of ability to have 2 certainty in recertification. 3 A company that may be in a zone 4 today, already invested hundreds of millions 5 of dollars, will now have in terms of 6 reinvestment, in growing new jobs in New York 7 State, in making additional commitment to the 8 state, will have question about whether the 9 state is going to be consistent in their 10 commitment back. 11 So that's the problem that this 12 legislation has failed to address. 13 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Would the 14 Senator continue to yield? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 16 Senator Nozzolio, do you continue to yield? 17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Be happy to 18 yield to the Senator. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 20 Senator yields. 21 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Senator, I 22 understand the point that the program is going 23 to change slightly. But the proposal as it 24 stood in the budget was for a 20-to-1 lookback

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(518) 371-8910 1 by the Governor's new proposal, which all of 2 us in this room know was not going to work. 3 That all the biotechs that were in Empire 4 Zones were going to be put out, that all the 5 manufacturing, just about, in the zones would 6 be put out, that a lot of the significant 7 projects or projects of significance, as they 8 refer to them, may very well have been put 9 out, because the proposal as done by the 10 administration was a 20-to-1 lookback, based 11 on the new numbers to qualify for Empire 12 Zones. 13 Now, granted, some people that are 14 almost finished came in with no lookback, no 15 need to create jobs, just bring jobs. But the 16 reality is to make this continue and to make 17 this successful, and in dealing with all the 18 businesspeople, from the Business Council to 19 all the locals, the recognition was that the 20 program is going to expire anyways, we should 21 be putting together a new program -- quite 22 well, one might be just for distressed areas, 23 which this was originally supposed to be. And 24 then expanded to other areas, and then added

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(518) 371-8910 1 projects of significance, where you could take 2 the benefits from one area and move them to 3 another area that had no Empire Zone or any 4 depressed areas in it. 5 But the reality is that this 6 proposal is livable. The shirt-changer part 7 even has a due process part in it where they 8 can show that they really aren't a 9 shirt-changer, they really have a development 10 of jobs and they earned their benefits. And 11 actually, every company has in the Empire Zone 12 has to go to Taxation every year with their 13 papers in order to get their benefits renewed 14 year to year. 15 So the reality, at least from where 16 I'm standing, is that on a temporary basis 17 this is a much-improved situation than what 18 the Governor proposed. 19 Secondly, it's not much different 20 from what currently exists. The reason for 21 the move-up in the date is to get the better 22 programs in place sooner than to just have 23 this drag out and the possibility that next 24 year we'll be here trying to solve the same

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(518) 371-8910 1 situation if the administration decides they 2 want a 20-to-1 clawback. 3 We would have preferred to have no 4 lookback at all, but in the negotiation we 5 agreed that this was the best situation for 6 the companies involved, considering that we 7 know that everybody who was watching from the 8 day the Governor put his budget out. 9 Everybody from outside the state was getting 10 ready to send all our businesses that are in 11 those areas literature on why shouldn't they 12 move to another state. 13 So with all that in mind, and 14 knowing that your manufacturing companies are 15 doing well and they're hopefully going to 16 expand, as you pointed out in your speeches, 17 wouldn't you think that this is a better idea 18 than just leave the Governor's plan stand? 19 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 20 a lengthy question. 21 But let me share, in responding to 22 Senator Stachowski, that no, I don't believe a 23 company that has benefits taken away, has a 24 program that may be terminated in a very short

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(518) 371-8910 1 period of time, that in this economy, as that 2 company and the companies I mentioned and 3 thousands of other companies across this state 4 have to make investment decisions today to 5 affect their operations three to five years 6 out, the sign is clear in New York State: 7 Don't do business here. We can't give you any 8 type of certainty. We can't give you any 9 regularity. 10 So what if you'd like to invest 10, 11 20, 30 million dollars into expanding your 12 plant? Tell your board of directors that you 13 may get certified, even if you're in a zone 14 today, or you may not get certified if you're 15 in a zone today. Tell your board of directors 16 that yes, you may have an Empire Zone program 17 in 18 months, or then again, you may not have 18 an Empire Zone program in New York State in 19 18 months. 20 Those board of directors are going 21 to say to the executive who's bringing this 22 before them: In good conscience, we could not 23 use our investors' money in New York State. 24 We don't believe that New York State is

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(518) 371-8910 1 reliable. We don't believe New York State is 2 going to live by its commitments from one day 3 to the next. 4 We had before a tremendous upheaval 5 in discussion on the zone program. And this 6 measure may be an improvement, may be a small 7 improvement on what was discussed earlier. 8 But the fact remains, Senator Stachowski and 9 my colleagues, that the uncertainty created by 10 this Legislature will drive investment to 11 other states. 12 And I believe that's the concern we 13 have. That's the concern that Senator Winner 14 mentioned in his remarks earlier on this 15 issue. And it's a concern that is real. It's 16 genuine. Particularly in these challenging 17 economic times, if there's an unreliable 18 program in New York State, let's go to the 19 Keystone Program in Pennsylvania, which is a 20 much more reliable program. Or let's go to 21 Ohio, that has a program that's reliable, 22 where we can make an investment and understand 23 that there will be certainty in that 24 investment.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Will the 2 Senator continue to yield? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Nozzolio, do you continue to yield? 5 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: And this 6 will be probably the last question from me. 7 But I know where you keep going 8 with this, but my problem is that you keep 9 saying it's unreliable, but the reality is had 10 it gone through, the Governor was going to 11 look back at it 20 to 1. The last -- I don't 12 know what year we changed it, but we changed 13 it back a few years ago to 20 to 1. I think 14 it was four years ago that it became 20 to 1. 15 It's now codified -- if we do this 16 bill, it's codified at 1 to 1 till the program 17 expires or shirt-changers have a problem. 18 Other than that, the reality is 19 that any board that knows all the business 20 representatives in this state are putting 21 together a new program recognizing the 22 limitations involved in being in the 23 manufacturing business or being in the biotech 24 business or being in some of the many

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(518) 371-8910 1 companies that are attractive. 2 In my area, there's a printing 3 company that has grown and is expanding and 4 it's considering purchasing two more 5 companies. They were scared to death about 6 20 to 1. They hit 14 to 1, and they're doing 7 great. So for them, this is terrific. 8 The fear that the program is going 9 to go out of existence I don't think is real, 10 because everyone knows that from the 11 businesspeople, all they have to do is call 12 the Business Council -- which if they're 13 businesspeople, they would -- to know that 14 they're involved in negotiations trying to set 15 up a program that works much better than this 16 one and doesn't necessarily have a 20 to 1, 17 has a recognition of the limitations based on 18 how their investment has to go, the wages that 19 their people get, and what the numbers would 20 fit, overall the whole state, in certain 21 areas. 22 So I don't think they have a worry 23 about whether there will be a continuation or 24 not. And I think it's a real reach to say

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(518) 371-8910 1 that they'll be panicked there won't be a 2 program when they know that we have a 3 commitment to them by just what we're doing to 4 the Governor's suggestion in this budget, 5 making sure that those companies that are 6 doing pretty well, that are hitting 7 to 1, 7 14 to 1, 16 to 1, won't get clawed back and 8 thrown out because they're not hitting 20 to 1 9 when they absolutely had no chance to hit 10 20 to 1 in the first place but they were in 11 the program before we went to a 20-to-1 limit 12 for the companies that are in now. 13 So the reality is they're getting a 14 strong message that we're pro-business. So 15 the reality is we're saving a lot of companies 16 from the Governor's original idea. And even 17 the Governor is receptive, and that's why he 18 has his people negotiating with the various 19 business representatives on putting together a 20 new program, because he understands from 21 hearing from all the companies and being beat 22 up literally by different businesspeople when 23 he did all his town meetings, that his 20-to-1 24 lookback program originally wasn't a good idea

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(518) 371-8910 1 and that something else has to happen and that 2 we should be thankful that the businesspeople 3 are moving forward and trying to negotiate 4 this for us. 5 And we told them, and I'm sure 6 you'll join along, that we will work with 7 them. And Senator Alesi will be invited to -- 8 anytime I'm invited, he'll be invited to come 9 along and participate in any kind of role that 10 we'll play in this part of this. 11 So my question is don't you agree 12 that this might be a much better situation and 13 that questions about the longevity of the 14 program should be answered just by the fact 15 that we did recognize the mistake of the 16 Governor's program, we corrected it to a much 17 better situation -- maybe not exactly where we 18 wanted to go, but much better than any 19 alternative we had -- and that we got the 20 business community negotiating on moving 21 forward with even a better program? So that's 22 my question, is don't you think they'd see 23 that as a positive message? 24 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Stachowski, through the chair, in response to 2 Senator Stachowski's question, let me answer 3 it with the following. 4 The first is whether this program 5 that is before us today was improved from 6 Governor Paterson's original proposal is a 7 question that could be better answered if this 8 was negotiated before the public and if there 9 was a transparent discussion of what the pros 10 and cons were of the various proposals. 11 It may be an improvement over 12 Governor Paterson's original proposal, but 13 frankly you may have accepted, in your 14 clandestine, behind-closed-doors, no 15 transparent negotiations, something that just 16 isn't appropriate for the long-term economic 17 vitality of New York State. 18 And let me conclude my response to 19 Senator Stachowski's question by asking 20 Senator Stachowski this question 21 parenthetically. Would Senator Stachowski put 22 all his money into a bank that may or may not 23 exist in a year? Would Senator Stachowski and 24 members of your conference invest in a company

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(518) 371-8910 1 that may not exist in 12 months, or could 2 exist but it may not exist, particularly 3 because the people who created that company 4 already had sent signals that they didn't want 5 the company to exist in its current state in 6 12 months? 7 This metaphor is what we are 8 confronted with today. The reality is that 9 business decisions with investors' monies are 10 made well in advance, and they're made to be 11 non-risky decisions. Business is risky 12 enough. These are challenging economic 13 times -- 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Senator Thompson, why do you rise? 16 Excuse me, Senator Nozzolio. 17 SENATOR THOMPSON: Would the 18 Senator yield for a couple of quick questions, 19 please? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Nozzolio, do you yield to Senator 22 Thompson? 23 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, I'd be 24 happy to yield to Senator Thompson.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 2 Senator yields. 3 SENATOR THOMPSON: Has the 4 upstate population declined over the last 5 10 years? 6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 7 I'm asked a question about the demographics of 8 upstate. How does Senator Thompson define 9 "upstate"? 10 SENATOR THOMPSON: Through you, 11 Mr. President. According to my colleagues on 12 the other side of the aisle, it's anything 13 outside of the Bronx. 14 (Laughter.) 15 SENATOR THOMPSON: Will the 16 Senator yield for another question? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 18 Senator Nozzolio, do you continue to yield to 19 Senator Thompson? 20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, 21 Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 23 Senator yields. 24 SENATOR THOMPSON: Since he

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(518) 371-8910 1 doesn't know whether or not we lost population 2 upstate, I have another question for him. How 3 many jobs have we lost upstate over the last 4 10 years? Do you know that? Can you answer 5 that question, please? 6 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 7 I know there were promises by many politicians 8 who were running for statewide office that 9 there would be tens of thousands of jobs 10 created in Western New York in particular. I 11 can't remember exactly what United States 12 Senator candidate made that pledge. Was it 13 10,000 jobs? It was 200,000. I stand 14 corrected, Mr. President. It was 200,000 jobs 15 that were promised upstate New York by a 16 certain candidate for United States Senate. I 17 don't believe those jobs have ever 18 materialized, at least in the area of Central 19 and Western New York that I represent. 20 But I'm sure that Senator Thompson 21 has the figure at his immediate disposal and 22 this question is something that I know he 23 knows the answer to. 24 SENATOR THOMPSON: Will the

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator yield for one other question, please? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator Nozzolio, do you continue to yield? 4 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I would be 5 glad to yield to Senator Thompson. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 7 Senator yields. 8 SENATOR THOMPSON: You know, I am 9 so fascinated that some individuals fail to 10 recognize that some of us actually live 11 upstate and we're a little attuned to some of 12 the concerns that are often spewed out. 13 But I wanted to find out if he was 14 aware of the poverty rates in some of the 15 upstate cities like Buffalo, Rochester, 16 Syracuse, Utica, and Albany, and whether or 17 not he was aware of their poverty rates and 18 whether or not they're in the single digits or 19 in the double digits. If he could kindly 20 answer that. Since we're talking about 21 economic development, if he would be kind 22 enough to answer those questions for me. 23 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I'll be glad 24 to answer Senator Thompson's question. I

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(518) 371-8910 1 guess it would be appropriate for Senator 2 Thompson to know that the City of Geneva is 3 one of the most impoverished cities in upstate 4 New York. And that the zone program, because 5 of the zone program, we were able to recruit 6 Guardian Glass to Geneva to help begin a 7 renaissance in that community that is in 8 upstate New York, as Senator Thompson well 9 knows. It's an area that he has to travel by 10 each week when he comes to Albany. 11 But that Empire Zone program that 12 is being changed by this legislation may very 13 well send a signal to the company that began 14 the renaissance in Geneva that New York is a 15 state that no longer supports business, that 16 it's a state that business can no longer rely 17 on, it's a state that says more jobs will be 18 lost. It says that very clearly, whether it's 19 in Buffalo, Batavia, or the greater Finger 20 Lakes region that I am honored to represent. 21 That the cities of Auburn and 22 Geneva, the communities in Wayne County, in 23 Tompkins County and Seneca County that have 24 zones are now going to be having to explain to

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(518) 371-8910 1 companies that this program exists up until 2 the middle of next year, so we would like you 3 to invest in New York State. 4 And the question then becomes -- 5 and maybe I can ask Senator Thompson to yield 6 to respond to this -- what would Senator 7 Thompson tell the companies who are making 8 decisions to invest in Geneva, in Auburn, in 9 Sennett, whether or not this program will 10 definitely exist next year when it's set to 11 expire next year by this legislation? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 13 Senator Thompson, do you consent to yield to 14 Senator Nozzolio? 15 SENATOR THOMPSON: I would love 16 to respond to the Senator's question. 17 Number one, I think that's an 18 excellent question, particularly as someone 19 who joined my colleague Senator Stachowski in 20 supporting the opposition to a lookback 21 provision. You may not be aware of it, but I 22 actually served on the City of Buffalo's 23 Empire Zone board for three years. 24 And I would say to that company

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(518) 371-8910 1 we're going to fight to make sure that you get 2 all the tax incentives that you need. But the 3 key critical question is whether or not you 4 will do things differently than has been done 5 in the past. 6 And so why I asked you the question 7 about the loss of jobs -- yes, we've lost jobs 8 upstate, particularly in the cities. Yes, the 9 poverty rate in most of the upstate cities is 10 double digit. But the critical thing that you 11 must understand, the critical thing that you 12 must understand is since the creation of the 13 zones, that most of our upstate cities, like 14 Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, they have all -- 15 most of these cities have seen the job loss 16 continue to increase and the poverty rates 17 continue to increase. 18 So I support the zone. I have a 19 bill that I put in when I first got in here to 20 talk about increasing the wage tax credit, 21 something that I submitted that hopefully, 22 when they reform this program over the next 23 year and a half, that we can improve the wage 24 tax credit so that more people from Buffalo,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Rochester, Syracuse, Utica and Albany can 2 actually -- the people that live next door to 3 these facilities that don't get those jobs 4 because the tax incentives are more lucrative 5 for property taxes and for sales taxes but not 6 the $1500 for a wage tax credit. 7 So yes, some of us are passionate 8 about those upstate issues as well. And so 9 when you spew that -- what sometimes may come 10 across as venom but really is passion, I want 11 you to understand that some of us actually do 12 live upstate as well. 13 Thank you. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 15 you, Senator Thompson. 16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 17 to conclude. 18 That I believe the burden of proof 19 in whether the zone program is going to be 20 benefited by this legislation and that, more 21 importantly, will jobs grow as a result of 22 this legislation, will the priorities of this 23 house support the number-one industry to the 24 degree that under these challenging economic

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(518) 371-8910 1 times, agriculture, which is the number-one 2 job-producing industry in this state, needs 3 support? And it's a question of priority. 4 Thank you, Mr. President, for the 5 opportunity to speak on this legislation. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 7 you, Senator Nozzolio. 8 Senator Flanagan. 9 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you, 10 Mr. President. Tough act to follow. 11 Just one thing, very quickly. This 12 book has been placed on everybody's desks, and 13 I think it was referenced earlier. And it is 14 the, quote, unquote, financial plan or 15 otherwise referenced as the budget fact 16 sheets. And I do have some questions relative 17 to this book. 18 But following up on some of the 19 comments from my colleagues, the Empire Zones 20 issue is obviously a statewide issue. But 21 frankly, for the communities I represent, it's 22 not as prevalent as it is in many other areas. 23 But from a simplistic standpoint, people will 24 actually ultimately read some of these

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(518) 371-8910 1 documents, and I think this speaks volumes 2 about what we're trying to do and where we're 3 trying to go. 4 And I will just reference, again, 5 these are words that were put out by the 6 Senate Finance Committee under Senator 7 Kruger's leadership. It talks about the 8 concepts used to reform the program. And two 9 of them say -- the second is to reduce some of 10 the benefits prospectively, and the third is 11 to make entry into the program more difficult. 12 I don't know, if you're trying to 13 entice business into the State of New York and 14 you're telling people you're going to get rid 15 of benefits and you're going to make getting 16 in the program more difficult and this is the 17 preamble of what we're going to do, it seems 18 to me that we're sending a mixed message at 19 best. 20 But on that point, would Senator 21 Kruger yield to some questions, please. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Kruger, do you yield? 24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. But if I can indulge Senator 2 Flanagan for one moment, please. 3 Just to clarify the record, because 4 there was questions made before. The same way 5 as, you know, I think we should all resent the 6 characterization of this chamber being a 7 gulag, I also don't like the word "slush 8 funds." 9 So let's just set the record 10 straight in terms of Senator Young made some 11 representation concerning a so-called slush 12 fund. Research will show that that is what we 13 call a dry appropriation, which means that we 14 create a budget line. And that budget line is 15 to be used for stimulus funds that are 16 competitive and that we have to apply for. 17 And unlike other states, where many 18 have their fiscal years in July, because ours 19 starts so early in the process, we need that 20 line to be able to hopefully apply for 21 additional funds and use those funds and 22 support that line in the budget. 23 So consequently -- through you, 24 Mr. President -- this is not a slush fund,

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(518) 371-8910 1 it's rather an unappropriated line to be used 2 for future stimulus dollars. Thank you. 3 Senator Flanagan. 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Well, Senator 5 Kruger, inasmuch as you digressed, I will 6 digress as well. 7 I appreciate the characterizations, 8 while I may not agree with them. And I'll 9 just say that I don't like the fact that 10 someone refers to any comments as spewing, 11 coming from either side of the aisle. So 12 since you made some other references, I'll 13 just raise that and hope to engage in a 14 cordial colloquy with you on some of the 15 components of this bill. 16 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Great. 17 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I want to go 18 back to some of the things that you said 19 originally. And I know it seems time has 20 passed, so just refreshing your recollection 21 and inquiring at the same time, when you were 22 discussing this legislation with Senator 23 Saland, there was a discussion about some of 24 the things that you said.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And I want to focus on what you 2 referenced as cuts in the General Fund. I 3 wrote down some notes that you said there was 4 $6 billion in cuts and that they came from the 5 General Fund. And then later you said that 6 the General Fund spending was flat. 7 So which one is it? Is there 8 $6 billion in cuts, or is it the General Fund 9 spending is flat? 10 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 11 you, Mr. President. Are we talking about 12 Empire Zones, or are we talking about the 13 budget lines? 14 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I'm not 15 talking about Empire Zones at all. 16 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Okay, so 17 we're finished with Empire Zones. 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I didn't say 19 that. I just said I'm not talking about 20 Empire Zones. 21 I'm talking about references that 22 you made before to General Fund expenditures. 23 I believe that you said that we had cut 24 $6 billion in funds, and then at another point

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(518) 371-8910 1 in your conversation you said General Fund 2 spending was flat. I'm trying to ascertain 3 which one was it or which one is it: 4 $6 billion in cuts, or is it flat? 5 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 6 you, Mr. President. Once again, we've made 7 $6 billion in cuts and we've made $6 billion 8 in restorations. So in principle -- and 9 obviously, there may be some dollars that 10 differentiate -- we're flat. 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. President, 12 would Senator Kruger continue to yield? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 15 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 16 Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 18 Senator yields. 19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. So at 20 one point, Senator Kruger, we actually did 21 make $6 billion in cuts to the General Fund? 22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes. 23 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And that 24 before this product came out, we made roughly

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(518) 371-8910 1 another $6 billion in restorations, so our 2 General Fund spending is flat. 3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 4 you, Mr. President, in principle. 5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. So when 6 you reference $6 billion in cutting and the 7 public is trying to figure out exactly what we 8 mean, based on what you're telling me now, I 9 would be fair to go out and say to folks in 10 terms of General Fund spending, we didn't make 11 any cuts, because overall spending in that 12 category of our state budget remains flat? 13 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 14 you, Mr. President. Senator Flanagan, it's 15 $6 billion worth of cuts in services, current 16 services, in the budget. While the Executive 17 had -- 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Is that in the 19 General Fund? 20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: While the 21 Executive had $9 billion -- yes, in the 22 General Fund. And we accepted roughly 23 $6 billion. 24 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay, so --

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Flanagan, could you continue to 3 address -- 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. President, 5 through you, would Senator Kruger continue to 6 yield? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 8 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield to 9 yield? 10 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes. 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Because part 12 of what we're going to get into here and as we 13 move along in the budget is a discussion about 14 where is state spending going, how did it 15 start and where are we going to finish. 16 So when we differentiate between 17 state spending and federal spending, I think 18 it's fair to get down for the record, when we 19 leave here and go back to our districts, I 20 want to know what the representation is going 21 to be. Is it going to be that there was 22 $6 billion in cuts, or is it going to be that 23 we are spending the same amount that we did 24 last year?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 2 you, Mr. President. I think we're becoming 3 exasperated saying the same thing over and 4 over again. Spending is virtually flat from 5 the General Fund. 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. Senator 7 Kruger, then on that point, if you would 8 continue to yield. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Do you 10 continue to yield? 11 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: How much is 13 the General Fund spending? 14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: About 15 $55 billion, approximately. 16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And what was 17 it last year? 18 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: 19 Approximately 54.7. 20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. 21 Relative to the financial plan, if Senator 22 Kruger would continue to yield. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 Senator yields. 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: We have a good 5 set of numbers here on All Fund spending. Is 6 there any particular reason why we don't have 7 General Fund spending year to year and why we 8 don't have State Fund spending as well? 9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 10 you, Mr. President, we do not have exact 11 numbers at this point. 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Well, Senator 13 Kruger, I -- this is -- it's exasperating on 14 my end as well. And baffling, to quote my 15 colleague Senator Saland. 16 If you don't have specific numbers, 17 then how can you stand here before me and 18 represent that it was $55 billion in General 19 Fund this year and $54.7 last year? Either 20 you have the numbers or you don't. 21 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 22 you, Mr. President. Senator Flanagan, the 23 numbers are rounded. And the projection as 24 well as the representation is not much

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(518) 371-8910 1 different this year than the representations 2 that were made last year. They're rounded 3 numbers. 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. If 5 Senator Kruger would yield. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 7 Senator, do you yield? 8 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 10 Senator yields. 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator 12 Fuschillo had inquired about whether or not 13 there's any MTA funding in this legislation. 14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, he 15 can. 16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And I believe 17 your answer was no. 18 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: The 19 question was was there any new MTA funding. 20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. Is 21 there any MTA funding in this plan? 22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, there 23 is. Of course. 24 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And how much

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(518) 371-8910 1 is that? 2 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 3 you, Mr. President, approximately $2.5 billion 4 in transit aid that comes through DOT, and 5 approximately $82 million in actual capital. 6 And just to further clarify, that's part of 7 the 2005 Bond Act, that that was the 8 agreement. 9 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. 10 Following up as well on something that Senator 11 Fuschillo had asked you, if Senator Kruger 12 would continue to yield. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Do you 14 continue to yield, Senator Kruger? 15 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 17 Senator yields. 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: We have a 19 grave concern -- I think everybody does, 20 obviously, all across the state. But on Long 21 Island we are already hamstrung by actions 22 taken by the DOT and by Governor Paterson. 23 And I want to specifically reference an 24 executive order that he issued last November

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(518) 371-8910 1 which included a provision that said basically 2 if your projects are not at least 75 percent 3 federally funded, you're on hold. 4 Essentially, you're dead in the water. So 5 that blew out the construction season on Long 6 Island. 7 As part of your negotiations on 8 transportation, have you resolved that issue 9 and has that executive order been rescinded as 10 a part of this budget? 11 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 12 you, Mr. President. Again, we're not 13 responsible for executive orders instituted by 14 the Governor. However, to the best of my 15 knowledge, that order still is in effect. 16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. And 17 then, more specifically, one of the huge 18 projects on Long Island happens to pass quite 19 a distance through my district, and it's 20 generally referred to as Route 347. Which is 21 going to be easily a $200 million project, and 22 has been put off and delayed. 23 Can you tell me with any certainty 24 in this budget will I know or will our

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(518) 371-8910 1 contractors know or will the residents on Long 2 Island know with specificity if any project is 3 fully funded? 4 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Again 5 through you, Mr. President. Senator Flanagan, 6 specific projects would be negotiated between 7 State DOT and the locality. It's not within 8 the scope of this budget. 9 SENATOR FLANAGAN: So you have no 10 idea or no understanding of what those 11 projects may be, not only on Long Island but 12 in any of our communities throughout the rest 13 of the State of New York? 14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 15 you, Mr. President. The actual individual 16 projects and the oversight of those projects 17 is State DOT. We fund the projects. We fund 18 the agency. We authorize the agency, rather. 19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: If Senator 20 Kruger would continue to yield, Mr. President, 21 through you. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 Senator yields. 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I'll just 5 quickly reference this project that I spoke 6 of. You said this is between DOT and 7 localities. Are you suggesting that DOT is 8 negotiating with various towns or the county? 9 Because, frankly, it's state money, and we are 10 the ones that have original and ultimate 11 jurisdiction over this and many other 12 projects. 13 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 14 you, Mr. President. The memorandum of 15 understanding in the capital plan, 2005 16 capital plan, would have spelled out the 17 individual projects. And it's administered by 18 State DOT. 19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. President, 20 would Senator Kruger continue to yield? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, 24 Mr. President.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 2 Senator yields. 3 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you, 4 Senator Kruger. I appreciate the courtesy. 5 I want to shift gears, if I could, 6 but I want to be very careful about being 7 germane. And one of the broad concepts that 8 we're going to have to grapple with here and 9 in other pieces of legislation, and you 10 referenced it in something that Senator Young 11 had raised, is federal stimulus money. And 12 I'm going to give you an example of why I as 13 one legislator find myself confused, and maybe 14 you can help clarify some of this for frankly 15 all of us. 16 Several weeks ago the Governor, 17 Malcolm Smith, Shelly Silver, you, Assemblyman 18 Farrell all stood at a public press conference 19 and said that there was $1.6 billion in, 20 quote, unquote, nuisance taxes that were being 21 taken out of the budget. 22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes. 23 SENATOR FLANAGAN: How was that 24 paid for? Was that through federal stimulus

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(518) 371-8910 1 funds? 2 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 3 you, Mr. President. 4 Firstly, there is no such thing as 5 nuisance taxes, but that's beside the point. 6 The 1.2 that was used to alleviate 7 those taxes was a combination of funds, some 8 stimulus, some General Funds. Not one 9 specific pot of money was used. And nothing 10 was tied to. 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. Senator 12 Kruger, if you would continue to yield. 13 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 14 SENATOR FLANAGAN: In your 15 opinion, how much federal stimulus money are 16 we going to be getting for this fiscal year? 17 And in fairness, I would go back to the latter 18 part of the last fiscal year and include that 19 as well. 20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: I'm told 21 about $5.5 billion. 22 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And what is 23 your understanding of how much of that is 24 restricted or unrestricted? Mr. President,

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(518) 371-8910 1 through you. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator, do you yield? 4 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 5 Mr. President. 6 Through you, Mr. President, as we 7 all know, Washington, sending down the money, 8 tied it to virtually education and healthcare. 9 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. Since 10 you reference roughly $5.5 billion, can you 11 differentiate for me and for everyone else how 12 much for education and how much for 13 healthcare? 14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: About 15 1.2 billion for education and about 16 275 million that would be flexible money. And 17 the rest healthcare. 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. And the 19 healthcare money is unrestricted? 20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: It's 21 reimbursement money. 22 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. Let me 23 focus on the education piece, if I could. 24 Mr. President, through you.

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(518) 371-8910 1 In looking at the federal stimulus 2 money as it relates to education, there were 3 two pots. The general-purpose money, are you 4 representing that all that money, that 5 275 million, roughly, is all being used for 6 education? 7 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 8 you, Mr. President, would Senator Flanagan 9 define how his questions are germane to the 10 TEDE bill? 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. President, 12 if Senator Kruger is asking me to yield, I'd 13 be happy to do that. 14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: I am. 15 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I started off 16 this portion of my questions being very clear 17 I want to be germane. You can have this 18 conversation with me, you can have it with any 19 one of my colleagues, and we can have it now 20 or we can have it on every single bill. I 21 believe it is germane because you actually 22 talked about a $1 billion appropriation that's 23 not in this bill and spoke about it at length. 24 So I think I'm on fair ground to be

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(518) 371-8910 1 bringing up the use of federal stimulus money, 2 because it is germane to everything we're 3 discussing. 4 And specifically as to your point, 5 Senator Kruger, you referenced Medicaid money 6 or healthcare money that became available that 7 was unrestricted. So it is legitimate for me 8 or for anyone else to be asking whether or not 9 some of that money was used to fund the 10 elements of what is commonly referred to as 11 the TEDE bill. 12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 13 you, Mr. President. Education and healthcare 14 is not in this bill. Any questions raised 15 about education and healthcare and the use of 16 stimulus money should be directed when we get 17 to those appropriate bills. 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Well, 19 Mr. President, if Senator Kruger would yield. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 24 Senator yields.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator 2 Kruger, I'm going to go back to what you said 3 before about the $1 billion fund whose 4 characterization you didn't like, the 5 $1 billion. 6 It is somehow apparent or it's fair 7 for you to get up and discuss that, which is 8 in a completely separate bill, not in the bill 9 before us. But when I'm raising issues about 10 federal stimulus money, somehow it becomes not 11 germane. 12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 13 you, Mr. President, in response to Senator 14 Flanagan. The issue of the so-called slush 15 fund that was raised by the Senator was part 16 of the question on this bill. It had nothing 17 to do about education or with health. It was 18 part of the agriculture amendment. And that's 19 why I raised the issue. 20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. President, 21 if Senator Kruger would continue to yield. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Kruger, do you yield? 24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 Senator yields. 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator 5 Kruger, at what point and frankly on what 6 legislation do you believe it would be germane 7 to be discussing the federal stimulus money 8 and its distribution? 9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Well, 10 through you, Mr. President, depending upon 11 what programs that funding would be used for 12 would be the time that it would be germane. 13 If we're talking about education 14 and health, it has nothing to do with the TEDE 15 bill. 16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. Will 17 Senator Kruger continue to yield? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator, do you yield? 20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 21 Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 23 Senator yields. 24 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Kruger, is there any federal stimulus money 2 that's been used to pay for the components of 3 this legislation before us? 4 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, there 5 is. 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. President, 7 if Senator Kruger would continue to yield. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 9 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 10 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Forgive me, 12 but you're telling me not to speak about 13 something that is so unbelievably germane to 14 this bill because you just represented to me 15 and my colleagues that you're paying for it 16 with federal stimulus money. How much more 17 germane do you have to get? 18 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 19 you, Mr. President. Senator Flanagan, I don't 20 understand your question. 21 SENATOR FLANAGAN: My question is 22 this. How much, specifically, how much 23 federal stimulus money is being used to fund 24 the components of the bill before us? You

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(518) 371-8910 1 just said there was money. I would like to 2 know how much. 3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 4 you, Mr. President. I will get back that 5 answer to you, Senator Flanagan. 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: But there is 7 money being used from the federal stimulus. 8 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 9 you, Mr. President, I believe so. 10 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. President, 11 on the bill. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 13 Senator Flanagan, on the bill. 14 SENATOR FLANAGAN: When Senator 15 Kruger originally got up, he was talking about 16 the process that we're engaging in and he 17 referenced bipartisanship, and he talked about 18 the outreach that came from the Majority to 19 the Minority. 20 And I made these similar comments 21 when we talked about the deficit reduction 22 plan. I can guarantee you, when I go home and 23 I talk to the people that I represent, I will 24 be very clear. There was at best a hint and a

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(518) 371-8910 1 scintilla, no more, in terms of 2 bipartisanship. 3 Because I know what people are 4 going to say. I'm the ranking Republican on 5 the Education Committee, I got a letter from 6 Senator Oppenheimer in the latter part of 7 March, just like Senator DeFrancisco did from 8 you -- as did all the other chairs to their 9 respective rankers -- and we were asked for 10 our input and our ideas on the budget. And 11 frankly, I was offended. I don't work for 12 Senator Oppenheimer. My colleagues don't work 13 for the chairs of their respective committees. 14 I work for my constituents and the residents 15 of the State of New York. 16 I wrote back politely and said that 17 the proper discourse and the proper venue for 18 that is public dialogue and transparency and 19 things that we call the conference committees 20 that everybody supported unanimously in the 21 Budget Reform Act of 2007. 22 So you can dance around it a 23 hundred different ways, but the bottom line is 24 this was the most secretive process certainly

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(518) 371-8910 1 in the 23 years I've been in Albany. And you 2 know what? You're in charge. If that's how 3 you decide to do it, I don't have to agree 4 with it, but that's the reality. 5 So I don't think anyone should walk 6 out of here making any assumptions about 7 whether this was a bipartisan process and 8 whether there was any real outreach. I am 9 certainly not going to represent that to my 10 constituents. And when I am at public forums 11 with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle 12 in both houses, I will be absolutely 13 crystal-clear that there was no bipartisanship 14 in this budget process. 15 Thank you, Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 17 you, Senator Flanagan. 18 Senator Libous. 19 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, 20 Mr. President. Would Senator Dilan, the 21 chairman of Transportation, yield for a 22 question? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Senator Dilan is not in the chamber at this

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(518) 371-8910 1 time, Senator Libous. 2 SENATOR LIBOUS: Well, then, 3 Senator Kruger, would you yield for a question 4 on transportation? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Kruger, would you yield to Senator 7 Libous? 8 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I 9 will. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 11 Senator yields. 12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, 13 Senator. 14 Senator, for the last several years 15 you've heard me on this floor talk about the 16 Dedicated Highway Trust Fund. Is the fund 17 being raided again this year, Senator Kruger? 18 Through you, Mr. President. 19 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 20 you, Mr. President. In all due respect, what 21 does "raided" mean? 22 SENATOR LIBOUS: Is that a 23 question, Mr. President? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Kruger, are you asking Senator Libous 2 to yield to you? 3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I 4 guess so. 5 SENATOR LIBOUS: I won't yield 6 the floor, but I'll answer his question. 7 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you. 8 SENATOR LIBOUS: "Raided," in my 9 opinion, and in the opinion of the people that 10 I represent, and quite frankly the people of 11 State of New York, is when a Dedicated Highway 12 Trust Fund was set up -- and I emphasize the 13 word "trust fund" -- the money that was go 14 into that fund was to be used for road and 15 bridge repair. 16 For the last several years the 17 administration has taken money from that fund, 18 I call it a raid, and used that for other 19 means. And I'm curious if the money has been 20 taken from the fund again. So I will rephrase 21 my word "raided" and say that money was taken 22 from the fund and used for other means. Has 23 that happened again this year, Mr. President? 24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through

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(518) 371-8910 1 you, Mr. President. If I understand the 2 question correctly, Senator Libous, there is 3 approximately $220 million that is 4 redistributed from the dedicated fund to DMV, 5 which is allowed within the scope of the 6 federal regulation. State law, I'm sorry. 7 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 8 through you, would Senator Kruger continue to 9 yield? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 11 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 14 Senator yields. 15 SENATOR LIBOUS: And, Senator 16 Kruger, the $200 million, do you know what 17 that $200 million is used for in DOT? 18 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 19 you, Mr. President, operations. 20 SENATOR LIBOUS: So, 21 Mr. President -- and thank you, Senator 22 Kruger, on that question, that specific 23 question. I'm not done, sir. But -- 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Fuschillo, why do you rise? 2 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: I'm going to 3 give Senator Kruger a break. Would Senator 4 Libous yield for a question? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Libous, do you yield to Senator 7 Fuschillo? 8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Yeah, I will, 9 Mr. President. 10 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: You don't 11 object, Senator Kruger, do you? 12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: No, not in 13 the least. 14 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Senator 15 Libous, you talked about raiding the Dedicated 16 Highway and Bridge Trust Fund. I know as the 17 chair of the Senate Transportation Committee 18 you had legislation for many years in this 19 house pending that. Could you explain -- 20 SENATOR SALAND: Excuse me, 21 Mr. President. For whatever reason, whether 22 it's Senator Fuschillo's microphone -- it is 23 difficult. 24 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: How about

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(518) 371-8910 1 now? Is that better? 2 SENATOR SALAND: Yes. 3 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay, thank 4 you. 5 Could you talk a little bit about 6 the need for the legislation that you've had 7 pending here that would prevent the raid and 8 what was the purpose of your question where 9 have the funds been going that are supposed to 10 be dedicated for that specific account? 11 SENATOR LIBOUS: Certainly, 12 Mr. President. And through you, 13 Mr. President. For the last couple of years 14 the Dedicated Highway Trust Fund, and I 15 emphasize the word "trust," was set up to 16 collect fees -- from fuel fees, from motor 17 vehicle fees -- to go into a fund to pave 18 roads and bridges in New York State. A 19 portion of those dollars have gone to pay for 20 bonding that has paid for roads and bridges 21 and certainly to try to take care of the needs 22 of the highways of New York State. 23 In the last couple of years, and I 24 remember on the floor last year I referenced

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(518) 371-8910 1 that over $213 million was transferred from 2 the Dedicated Highway Trust Fund, a fund to 3 pave roads and take care of the ailing and 4 failing bridges in this state -- and by the 5 way, Mr. President, DOT put out a report last 6 year that talked about the number of bridges 7 that were in disrepair in our state. And, 8 Mr. President, there were hundreds of bridges 9 throughout the state. The report is quite a 10 large report, it's about this thick 11 (indicating), and it talks about safety to the 12 citizens of New York State. And certainly the 13 money in that Dedicated Highway Trust Fund was 14 supposed to and is supposed to go to road and 15 bridge repair. 16 But $213 million last year was 17 transferred to, as Senator Kruger mentioned, 18 the Department of Motor Vehicles to pay for 19 the operation of the Department of Motor 20 Vehicles. Now, normally that's done out of 21 the General Fund. Normally, that's done out 22 of state operations. But for whatever reason, 23 the Dedicated Highway Trust Fund, money used 24 that's supposed to go to repair roads and

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(518) 371-8910 1 bridges, goes to that. 2 There's also, Mr. President, I 3 believe about $500 million, maybe now 4 $600 million that goes to snow and ice 5 removal, to the Department of Transportation. 6 That's taken from that dedicated fund, you 7 know, close to a billion dollars. It's not 8 quite a billion dollars, but it may be closer. 9 And, Mr. President, Senator Kruger, as 10 chairman of Finance, may have those updated 11 numbers. I don't have them available. But 12 again, taken away from a Dedicated Highway 13 Trust Fund that was set up by this body to pay 14 for road and bridge repair. Dangerous 15 bridges, very, very dangerous to our citizens. 16 So that money is now transferred 17 out and goes into the maintenance and 18 operation of DOT. Again, in the past, was 19 paid for out of a General Fund account. 20 So, Mr. President, I hope that 21 answers Senator Fuschillo's question. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Fuschillo. 24 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr.

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(518) 371-8910 1 President, would the Senator continue to 2 yield? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Libous, do you continue to yield? 5 SENATOR LIBOUS: Sure. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 7 Senator yields. 8 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: My 9 understanding, based on my original questions 10 to Senator Kruger prior to this discussion, 11 was that about $2 billion is going into that 12 fund this year, but a very small percentage is 13 actually going to be for construction. 14 Is the same principle being applied 15 here, where X amount of dollars will be going 16 to pay for debt and a very small amount will 17 be going for actual construction? 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Actually, 19 Mr. President, through you, I know the 20 question came up earlier that Senator 21 Fuschillo talked about the CHIPS money. And I 22 believe he offered a question up to Senator 23 Kruger. 24 And, you know, the Governor cut the

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(518) 371-8910 1 CHIPS money, and certainly it was restored, 2 and that's a good thing. But what's 3 interesting, and it pertains to the fund, is 4 that about $363 million in CHIPS funding goes 5 to local governments. But what's alarming is 6 that $440 million will go to cover the bonding 7 of that 363. 8 So it's a problem, because more and 9 more of the Dedicated Highway Fund is going to 10 bonding and to pay debt rather than actually 11 going into road and bridge repair. And as the 12 fund is continually raided, then more and more 13 of the fund will go to bonding, because that 14 500 million that I mentioned, and add 15 200 million on top of that, that's 700, say 16 $800 million could have gone to road and 17 bridge repair. 18 Mr. President, could I continue to 19 ask the chairman of Finance, Senator Kruger, a 20 couple of questions? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: You 22 certainly may. 23 Senator Kruger, do you yield to 24 Senator Libous?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 Senator yields. 4 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, 5 Mr. President. 6 Senator Kruger, would you concur 7 that also the money is still being taken out 8 for snow and ice repair, as I mentioned? 9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, it is. 10 And if I could just comment, 11 Senator Libous, to expand on your question. 12 SENATOR LIBOUS: I would be happy 13 to listen. 14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: This 15 program developed in 2005, when Republicans 16 were in the majority, is faulty. We know 17 that. And interestingly enough, you had press 18 conferences around this very issue, and we 19 agree with you. And we would like very, very 20 much to offer a bipartisan approach over this 21 next segment after we finish this budget to 22 see how we better utilize our shared expertise 23 in making this program a better one. 24 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President,

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(518) 371-8910 1 could I respond to his comment? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator Libous, yes. 4 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you. 5 Mr. President, through you. Of course, 6 Senator Kruger, I welcome your offer. 7 And, you know, this house did vote 8 for legislation two years in a row that I put 9 on the floor when I sat on that side of the 10 aisle that would stop the raiding of the 11 Dedicated Highway Fund, and it passed 12 unanimously. So I would welcome that. 13 And I appreciate you making the 14 offer, because I think we have to stop raiding 15 that fund, because the taxpayers believe that 16 that is a sacred fund that is supposed to go 17 to road and bridge repair. 18 And again, Mr. President, this 19 year -- and if I could ask Senator Kruger 20 another question. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Senator Kruger, do you yield? 23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator yields. 2 SENATOR LIBOUS: Will the 3 increases this year, Senator Kruger, in 4 vehicle registration fees, will they be going 5 into this fund, I'm assuming, as they have, 6 all vehicle registration fees have in the 7 past? 8 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 9 you, Mr. President, yes, they will. 10 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 11 if Senator Kruger would still yield. 12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Would those 14 funds go to highway road and bridge repair, or 15 will they be swept out to be utilized for 16 other purposes? 17 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 18 you, Mr. President, once again, they're not 19 segregated, as you're well aware, Senator 20 Libous. So the answer is it's a mixed answer 21 to a mixed bag. 22 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, 23 Mr. President. Could I speak on the bill? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Libous, on the bill. 2 SENATOR LIBOUS: I am going to 3 offer my comments particularly to the 4 transportation piece of this legislation. And 5 I certainly defer to my colleagues who have 6 spoken on a number of other issues. 7 It was talked about earlier today 8 that there was going to be job generation in 9 this bill, and what I am concerned about is 10 this. That according to what I can find in 11 the transportation bill, and what I understand 12 is that there's about $1.6 billion in the 13 existing letting program, and the letting 14 program is the number of jobs that DOT puts 15 out on the street. Those are when your 16 contractors call you and say, Hey, where are 17 the projects, how come they're not moving? 18 There's $1.6 billion, which is about a 19 $300 million cut in this program. 20 And in 2005, as Senator Kruger 21 mentioned before, this house voted and agreed 22 on a highway program at a certain level, it 23 was a five-year plan. And it also went to the 24 taxpayers of this state and asked the

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(518) 371-8910 1 taxpayers to bond. And if you recall, we 2 passed a transportation bond issue. And we 3 told the taxpayers at the time that the money 4 was going to be used for road, bridge, highway 5 repair and other issues. 6 This budget really breaks that 7 commitment, because there will be $300 million 8 less in actual letting going out the door this 9 year. That's something that concerns me, 10 especially as we talk about jobs. 11 Let me take it a step further. As 12 Senator Kruger correctly said earlier, there 13 is stimulus money that is in this package. 14 And certainly we all know that there are 15 strings attached to stimulus money. I guess, 16 you know, I asked a question did the stimulus 17 money for highway funds, you know, make up the 18 reduction in state spending. And my answer to 19 that is going to be no. And that's really a 20 short answer. 21 But there's about a billion dollars 22 in highway stimulus funds that go into this 23 budget. But what's concerning is that -- and 24 that's for the next two years. Okay? That's

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(518) 371-8910 1 a billion dollars for the next two years. So 2 if you cut it in half, that's what, 3 500 million one year, 500 million the next. 4 But this budget also cuts 5 600 million in state construction during the 6 same time. That's 600 million in state 7 construction funds at the same time. So 8 you're again spending less than what was 9 proposed in the capital plan that was put 10 together by this house in 2005. That's less 11 spending, that's less construction jobs, 12 that's less jobs being created than we 13 actually committed to and passed in this house 14 in 2005. 15 So I'm very concerned that while my 16 colleagues on the other side of the aisle talk 17 about all these jobs that are going to be 18 created, at least from the DOT side -- I can 19 only speak on DOT. I don't profess to be an 20 expert. I know a little bit about it from 21 chairing the committee. 22 I find transportation to be an 23 exciting area of the state budget because it 24 ties to economic development and our future

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(518) 371-8910 1 growth, whether it be rail or aviation and 2 again, hopefully someday fixing -- and I take 3 Senator Kruger's offer up, and we will work 4 together to fix that Dedicated Highway Fund, 5 because that's something I wanted to do for 6 the last several years. 7 But to say that at least from the 8 transportation side of this that additional 9 jobs are going to be created, I question that. 10 I only question that because if I look at the 11 numbers, the numbers are telling me that we're 12 to be putting less out in this fiscal year 13 than we've committed in the past. And if 14 we're putting less money on the street -- and 15 I've dealt with the contractors, I've dealt 16 with many of the people in the industry -- it 17 means that they're going to hire less people 18 in the construction season. 19 So while I certainly -- I think, 20 looking at the spending portion of this 21 budget -- and I do applaud the fact that the 22 CHIPS money was put back in the budget. I 23 know that's something that everybody on the 24 this side of the aisle worked hard -- Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Fuschillo, as the ranker of the committee. 2 And I guess if Senator Dilan were here, I'd 3 even say thank you to him. So if he's 4 listening, I say thank you to you too for 5 doing that, because that's a very important 6 part of this transportation budget. 7 Thank you, Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 9 you, Senator Libous. 10 Senator Thompson. 11 SENATOR THOMPSON: On the bill. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 13 Senator Thompson, on the bill. 14 SENATOR THOMPSON: I won't be 15 long, because I know we've been on this bill 16 for a number of hours. 17 But first I want to thank you, 18 Mr. President, for recognizing me. I want to 19 also thank Chairman Kruger for his insight 20 into the budget and his tenacity in moving 21 through this process. 22 Just a couple of things I think are 23 important to note about the environment. This 24 budget will provide $454.5 million in stimulus

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(518) 371-8910 1 money, $9.45 million for spills management, 2 $10 million for land and forest grants, and 3 $435 million for water pollution. 4 This budget as well, so many people 5 raised concerns. The Governor's initial 6 proposal really proposed a sweeping change to 7 the Environmental Protection Fund, and many of 8 my colleagues on both sides of the aisle 9 raised a concern regarding using the real 10 estate transfer tax, removing that as the 11 primary source of funding from the EPF. And 12 so with the help of so many people in this 13 room and so many advocates, we were able to 14 reject that proposal by the Governor. 15 The other thing I think is 16 important to note is that there's been a 17 number of sweeps of the EPF. This budget 18 proposed a $45 million sweep. And with the 19 help of a number of advocates and groups, we 20 will not be sweeping the EPF. 21 I believe that there's still some 22 unfinished business to do as relates to the 23 EPF that we can hopefully submit in a 24 bipartisan way by the end of session as

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(518) 371-8910 1 relates to repayment language. I know that 2 former chairman of the Senate EnCon Committee, 3 Senator Marcellino, in addition to Assemblyman 4 Sweeney in the Assembly, have bills that 5 they'd like to have negotiated to deal with 6 the repayment provisions of over $500 million 7 in sweeps taken place to the EPF. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Excuse 9 me, Senator Thompson. 10 Senator Marcellino, why do you 11 rise? 12 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I would just 13 like to ask if Senator Thompson would yield 14 for just one question. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 16 Senator Thompson, do you yield to Senator 17 Marcellino? 18 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes, 19 absolutely. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 21 Senator yields. 22 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Senator 23 Thompson, you and I have talked about this 24 before. You mentioned the legislation that I

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(518) 371-8910 1 sponsored in this house and that was passed 2 unanimously by this chamber and the other 3 house and became law that established the EPF 4 at $250 million in last year's budget and 5 raised it to $300 million in this year's 6 budget. 7 The bill that we're talking about 8 and the bill that will be coming up in 9 Article 7, is the EPF higher or lower than 10 $300 million? Or is it the same as 11 $300 million, or is it less than $300 million? 12 SENATOR THOMPSON: Through you, 13 Mr. President. The bill will be less than 14 $300 million. But as many of you know, even 15 with the lower amounts it's been difficult to 16 get all of those dollars out of the door, and 17 that's what has led to a lot of the sweeps. 18 And so I believe as we come out of 19 this fiscal climate, this period of economic 20 recovery, that we all will support, I would 21 hope, to moving it up to that $300 million 22 once we get out of this fiscal climate. As 23 many people are aware, the Governor's budget 24 came in, I believe, at $205 million, and today

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(518) 371-8910 1 we have increased it by more than $17 million, 2 coming up with different ways. 3 And I think the number-one thing 4 for most of the advocates this year was to, 5 one, deal with the RETT. I believe we did 6 that, to protect the EPF. And two was the 7 issue of making sure that we deal with the 8 Bottle Bill, which I'll talk about after 9 Senator Marcellino is finished. 10 Do you have any other questions? 11 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes. Just 12 one more. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Thompson, do you yield? 15 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes, 16 absolutely. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 18 Senator yields. 19 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Senator 20 Thompson, the bill that we're talking about, 21 that we're going to be talking about, depends 22 upon, in part, fees that were increased, such 23 as fees to pesticide applicators, fees to new 24 wetlands projects, and so forth.

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(518) 371-8910 1 There's no guarantee -- there's 2 supposed to be an additional $5 million. At 3 least the first $5 million was supposed to go 4 into the Environmental Protection Fund to 5 bring it up to the number you're talking 6 about, amongst other fees. There's no 7 guarantees that any of these fees will achieve 8 the level that is anticipated. Is that not 9 so? 10 SENATOR THOMPSON: I would 11 respectfully disagree. I mean, I think 12 anytime we put budgets together, we put in 13 projections. And I think whether it's the 14 RETT or whether it's any other number that's 15 assigned to any budget, it's based on 16 projected revenue. 17 And I believe that not only will we 18 reach that projection, that we're going to 19 work collectively with the various respective 20 agencies and the advocates to not only get the 21 money out the door but to improve the process 22 and make sure that we not only get the revenue 23 in but also spend the money a lot faster and a 24 lot better as well.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I just 2 wanted to make the point that the EPF was 3 supposed to be $300 million and is 4 significantly less now. This budget does 5 swipe money out of the EPF into other areas. 6 There is no language here that guarantees 7 repayment. There has never been any repayment 8 of EPF funds. There's almost a half a billion 9 dollars in EPF money that has been swept by 10 prior administrations, right up to and 11 including this one, that has not been paid 12 back. And there doesn't seem to be a plan to 13 have it paid back. 14 I think that has to be addressed, 15 and we will address it in the next bill with 16 an amendment. 17 Thank you, Senator Thompson. 18 SENATOR THOMPSON: On the bill, 19 just a couple of quick things. 20 First, this bill does not have a 21 cash sweep. The $45 million I believe in cash 22 sweep has been rejected. We've always done 23 some bonding. This bill will do about 24 $95 million in bonding for various capital

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(518) 371-8910 1 projects, many that will be performed and 2 conducted, as always, in many Senate districts 3 across the state. 4 I think the other point that's 5 important to note about this bill is that we 6 did conduct a number of hearings on the Bottle 7 Bill. And the hearings I thought were very 8 inclusive. We did not have hearings where all 9 the people who were for it spoke first and all 10 the people who were against it spoke last. 11 I think for the people -- in fact, 12 in the hearing that was held in Albany, I want 13 to thank my colleagues from both sides of the 14 aisle that came out and actually gave some 15 very good input and testimony from not only 16 the members but also from people on both sides 17 of the issue. 18 The Bottle Bill has been something 19 that many folks have been supportive of 20 throughout the years. It has over a 21 75 percent approval rating in public opinion 22 polls. This bill I believe is a compromise. 23 It's a compromise bill. As an advocate, 24 someone who is passionate about this issue, I

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(518) 371-8910 1 would like to have seen it bigger. I would 2 have loved to see it bigger. But some people 3 said let's try to work on a compromise 4 proposal. 5 So this compromise only goes to 6 bottled water. It's not your ice teas, your 7 sports drinks, your fruit juices. It takes 8 out of our landfills, out of our farms more 9 than 1.5 billion containers that are purchased 10 and consumed in the State of New York each and 11 every year. So it's a compromise proposal. 12 It's not as ambitious and robust as 13 many of us who have been supporters of the 14 Bigger Better Bottle Bill would have liked. 15 But it's a compromise. We listened to some of 16 the concerns of the supermarkets. They were 17 concerned about overredemption. 18 In fact, there's some members on 19 the other side of the aisle and this side of 20 the aisle that were concerned about the fact 21 that the big box retailers, traditionally your 22 Wal-Marts, your Sam's Clubs, your Targets, do 23 not really at this present do a fair job of 24 enforcing the Bottle Bill.

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(518) 371-8910 1 So this bill will seek to address 2 and rectify some of those problems. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Marcellino, why do you rise? 5 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Would the 6 Senator yield. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 8 Senator Thompson, do you yield? 9 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes, sir, 10 absolutely. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 12 Senator yields. 13 SENATOR MARCELLINO: You 14 mentioned the Bottle Bill. I was going to 15 save this for another time, but why not. 16 How much revenue is anticipated to 17 come from the proposed new Bottle Bill? 18 SENATOR THOMPSON: According to 19 our numbers, it will be a minimum of 115 will 20 go to the state. 21 SENATOR MARCELLINO: How much do 22 you -- I'm sorry. Through you, Mr. Chairman. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Do you 24 continue to yield, Senator?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 Senator yields. 4 SENATOR MARCELLINO: How much do 5 you expect to get this year, in this fiscal 6 year? 7 SENATOR THOMPSON: This fiscal 8 year I believe is budgeted for $115 million. 9 In fact, the Container Recycling Institute 10 believes that it will be higher than that, but 11 we took the conservative estimate. 12 In addition to that, we also -- 13 they believe it's going to be 218. We 14 budgeted 215. And out of that, whatever is 15 left, if there's more money left, 20 percent 16 of that will go to the industry. 17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Mr. 18 President, if the Senator could continue to 19 yield. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Thompson, do you continue to yield? 22 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes, 23 absolutely. 24 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Thompson, how do you propose to deal with the 2 issue of a single label for New York State 3 relative to bottled water? 4 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes, the UPC 5 code? 6 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yeah. 7 SENATOR THOMPSON: The UPC code I 8 believe will be addressed during the 9 regulatory process. 10 That is an issue, as I explained to 11 some of our colleagues, that you have some 12 supermarkets right now that would prefer to 13 have a universal UPC code, and some 14 distributors or manufacturers would like to 15 have a universal one, and then you have some 16 on the other side that would like to have a 17 state-specific. Because as you are aware, 18 there are certain supermarkets that have what 19 we call a private label. Meaning Hannaford 20 Foods may do their own bottled water. And 21 they may not only operate in New York State. 22 So there's not a uniform opinion 23 right now on whether you should have a 24 universal UPC or state code. And I think this

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(518) 371-8910 1 is something that all of us who have been 2 really involved with this would like to allow 3 the right to work out through the regulatory 4 process. 5 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Well, I 6 understand what you're saying, and I concur 7 that there is going to be a problem. And if 8 one talks to the industry, as I have -- 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Marcellino, are you asking Senator 11 Thompson to continue to yield? 12 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I will in a 13 second. 14 As I have spoken to the industry, 15 they tell me that there is no way that that 16 process can be accomplished within six months 17 to a year. So Senator Thompson, if he would 18 continue to yield -- 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 20 Senator, do you continue to yield? 21 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes, 22 absolutely. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 24 Senator yields.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR MARCELLINO: If you can't 2 resolve this problem within the next six 3 months to a year, assuming the industry -- 4 they ought to know -- assuming the industry is 5 correct, if you can't resolve this problem in 6 six months to a year, how do you accomplish 7 the effect of getting any money? Because 8 you're not going to have a code and you're not 9 going to be able to redeem the bottles. 10 SENATOR THOMPSON: Through you, 11 Madam Chairwoman. First let me say that -- 12 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Is it 13 something we said? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 15 Look what you did, you changed everything. 16 (Laughter.) 17 SENATOR THOMPSON: Through you, 18 Madam Chairwoman, the issue at hand is not 19 that complicated. Number one, I think we need 20 to recognize that we are not the only state in 21 the union that deals with bottled water. 22 Number two, Connecticut, as you are 23 aware, last month just passed a bottle bill 24 for bottled water, and they gave them a pretty

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(518) 371-8910 1 short time frame. And some will be a little 2 late, but most, I am told, will be on time. 3 The other issue is in terms of the 4 companies, we're always going to -- I am told 5 that the state, as always, will do its best to 6 work with these companies. Many of the bigger 7 companies said that they are prepared to 8 address this issue. And some of the smaller 9 breweries and things of that nature I believe 10 will be assisted through the regulatory 11 process. And there is also some transition 12 money that may be available as well. 13 SENATOR MARCELLINO: If the 14 Senator will continue to yield, Madam 15 President. 16 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes, 17 absolutely. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 19 Senator Thompson continues to yield. 20 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Senator 21 Thompson, I hear what you're saying. But the 22 fact is many of these companies are saying 23 that it cannot be done, that it cannot be met. 24 And what the state is likely to do is have no

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(518) 371-8910 1 product on the shelf at a given period of 2 time. Connecticut hasn't collected a dime 3 yet -- or a nickel, if you will, from their 4 law because they haven't got any labels. 5 You've got a brewery in your 6 section of the state that is cancelling 7 projects or a proposed project to expand and 8 is talking about possibly even closing down as 9 a result of this particular law, with the loss 10 of several jobs in that region, which is 11 something we don't want. 12 We're hearing that -- many of the 13 grocery stores are telling us that it's going 14 to cost jobs because they aren't going to be 15 able to make back -- this 20 percent is not 16 going to cover their cost of doing business. 17 The bottlers are not going to be able to cover 18 their costs. Some of them are just not going 19 to be there. Some of the smaller operators 20 are not going to be there. 21 There's an Anheuser-Busch brewery 22 that is in I believe Senator Aubertine's 23 district that is likewise saying they're going 24 to close down too, and they're cancelling a

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(518) 371-8910 1 project for expansion. 2 Senator, I go back to you again. 3 This bill, while you're projecting numbers, 4 these are largely guesstimates of the worst 5 kind. There is no basis for which these 6 numbers -- you hear every time we talk a 7 different set of numbers. It started out as 8 $30 million, it then went to the $100 million, 9 it's now up to $218 million. There's no way 10 that this can be done. 11 And when I asked you how are we 12 going to make the label factors, well, we'll 13 work with the industry and I'm sure something 14 can happen. Again, no answer to the question. 15 Senator, I suggest to you and I'm 16 asking if you would agree that this poses a 17 serious problem with the revenue that this 18 bill is supposed to generate that adds to the 19 balancing of this budget. If the revenue 20 doesn't come in, is this budget balanced? 21 SENATOR THOMPSON: Through you, 22 Madam Chair. 23 First, I'm sure that my 24 colleague -- I will respectfully suggest that

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(518) 371-8910 1 New York State is probably the third-biggest 2 market for most of these national and some 3 regional retailers. And so we -- so that 4 you're -- for full disclosure, one company I 5 met with six times. Six. I went to one 6 company's facility twice. Every group that 7 wanted to participate in this process, I met 8 on a minimum of one time. Many of their 9 recommendations to this bill are a result of 10 members on both sides of the aisle in addition 11 to people from industry. 12 No industry, for the most part, 13 will say "Give us more regulation" or "We want 14 to give you more money." Most won't. But I 15 think if you look at this bill from what was 16 proposed in December of 2008, you can honestly 17 say that this bill has been substantially 18 modified to address many of the issues. 19 Is it perfect? Absolutely not. 20 But if you talk about equal enforcement of the 21 Bottle Bill, this addresses that through 22 posting for consumer rights and the rights of 23 the store owners. If you talk about equal 24 enforcement as relates to big box retailers

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(518) 371-8910 1 compared to convenience stores and 2 supermarkets, this bill begins to address 3 that. If we talk about making sure that 4 there's shared sacrifice, this bill addresses 5 that. 6 Do we take 100 percent from the 7 bottlers like Connecticut just did where 8 Nestle and Poland Spring is in Connecticut? 9 We didn't do that. We offered a compromise. 10 In addition to that, I am certain, 11 with members on both sides of the aisle, 12 through the regulatory process we will address 13 even more issues. But we know and you know, 14 as someone who's spent a lot of time on 15 environmental issues, that many of these 16 companies, whether it's dealing with lead 17 paint, fire-safe cigarettes, every time we 18 come up with something to provide more 19 regulation, they will always say they can't do 20 it unless government pushes them along. 21 And I think this is a fair and a 22 better deal. And as I said to someone 23 yesterday, if they couldn't get this deal in 24 Connecticut, where Poland Spring is

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(518) 371-8910 1 headquartered, why would they think they could 2 get a better deal in New York State? This is 3 a better deal than they got in their own home 4 state of Connecticut. 5 Thank you. 6 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you, 7 Senator. I just would comment that again, 8 we'll propose an amendment for the Article 7 9 bill and we'll expand upon this discussion 10 more. 11 But the numbers that I'm hearing 12 from you, the initial Bottle Bill -- if you 13 would continue to yield. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 15 Senator Thompson, do you continue to yield? 16 SENATOR THOMPSON: Absolutely. 17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: The initial 18 Bottle Bill included a whole bunch of other 19 things like juices and other types of drinks. 20 I heard the same numbers for revenue on that 21 original Bottle Bill that included juice and 22 all kinds of other bottled drinks, 23 noncarbonated bottled drinks, not just water. 24 But the same numbers, total numbers --

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(518) 371-8910 1 $218 million, $111 million -- all of this 2 stuff, same numbers. 3 You're taking less product, 4 Senator. You're taking less product. You're 5 not taking the juices. Yet you're using the 6 same revenue source and the same revenue 7 numbers. I don't know how that works. Can 8 you explain that, please? 9 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes. 10 Let me just say this. Assembly 11 Bill 9777 and Senate Bill 2831, I believe 12 those were the two bill numbers that did the 13 original Bottle Bill, if I'm correct. And, 14 you know, what's so fascinating about it is 15 that I was only 12 years of age at that time. 16 But I will say that I remember as a young man 17 going to Detroit, Michigan, where at that 18 point they had a bottle law, and every summer 19 I used to -- my aunt owned a store, and I 20 would wonder why we could take cans back there 21 and we couldn't do it in New York. 22 But you know what, in 1982 they 23 said that all these companies, they were going 24 to leave the state, they were going to lay off

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(518) 371-8910 1 people, it could never be done, it would never 2 happen. And I'm sure some of the members on 3 both sides of the aisle remember those same 4 things. Right? You know that. 5 And the fascinating part about this 6 is that there are people, as you know, 7 Senator, that are waiting for this to happen 8 so that redemption centers and other companies 9 can continue to grow and take the pressure off 10 our supermarkets. 11 And is it a perfect process? No. 12 But I can tell you this, that implementing 13 this bill in 2009 will be a lot easier than it 14 was in 1982. And I think everyone, whether 15 you support the bill or not, would agree with 16 that. 17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Senator, I 18 would just -- 19 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 20 Senator Marcellino, do you wish Senator 21 Thompson to continue to yield? 22 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, if he 23 would. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Thompson, do you continue to yield? 2 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes. 3 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Senator, I 4 wasn't 12 years old in 1982, so I can't relate 5 to that time frame. It was a blur. 6 (Laughter.) 7 SENATOR MARCELLINO: That's more 8 information than some of my colleagues needed. 9 The question that I would like to 10 ask you is, are you aware of the 11 overredemption that occurs in those areas of 12 the state that border other states without the 13 bottle bill? Some areas, some stores have 14 talked about 150, 130, in some cases 15 approaching double that in redemptions from 16 other states -- people crossing the line, 17 going to stores, bringing the bottles bought 18 in other areas and redeeming them in the 19 state -- causing a tremendous hardship 20 financially on the stores in those regions. 21 Are you aware of that, and how does 22 this bill address that? 23 SENATOR THOMPSON: Through you, 24 Madam Chairwoman. That is the dilemma that we

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(518) 371-8910 1 have with the existing Bottle Bill and the 2 expanded. And that's why there were industry 3 people and some advocates who wanted a UPC 4 code, a New York State base. 5 The problem that I foresee right 6 now is that you have the industry and some of 7 the supermarket chains are mixed on it. And 8 so we have to, through the regulatory process, 9 find out what is the best way in that area. 10 Because some people want a universal UPC code, 11 and some people want a New York State-based 12 one. 13 But most of the people have said, 14 by and large, that many of the issues that 15 they were concerned about outside of this UPC 16 code, and maybe one or two small issues, have 17 said that many of their concerns have been 18 addressed. 19 And I think that process that 20 you're talking about now, I think we can work 21 through that process. And I believe we have 22 to also be mindful in 1982 they were starting 23 from scratch. And we're not starting from 24 scratch. We have a lot of folks who have

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(518) 371-8910 1 institutional knowledge as advocates, as 2 legislators, as staffers, and as companies as 3 well. 4 So I believe they'll be able to 5 work through that. And if you have 6 suggestions, I'm always available and I'll do 7 everything to support some of the ones that 8 make sense. 9 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Madam 10 Chairman, if the Senator would continue. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 12 Senator Thompson, do you continue to yield? 13 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes, 14 absolutely. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 16 The Senator yields. 17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I take 18 Senator Thompson at his word. I know he is an 19 honorable gentleman. And we have -- as ranker 20 on the committee now, and he is chairman of 21 the committee, we have worked well together, 22 and I respect his leadership. 23 The question that I would raise, 24 though, is in the realm of enforcement. I do

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(518) 371-8910 1 not see the DEC doing much in that area that 2 needs to be done. You have a tremendous 3 amount of stores, entities, that give away or 4 sell sodas and sell bottled drinks that are 5 now currently under the nickel package. 6 And by the way, in 1982 we didn't 7 have curbside recycling. So there are 8 curbside recycling programs out there now that 9 would address and could address much of this 10 recycling and getting stuff off the streets. 11 With that being said, if you go a 12 drugstore -- they're selling soda, water, 13 whatever -- and try to redeem a bag of soda 14 bottles at your local CVS or Rite Aid, they'll 15 look at you like cross-eyed, because they 16 don't have the means of doing it and they 17 don't even want to do it. 18 What in this bill requires or would 19 get the DEC or would give them the 20 wherewithal -- because it's my understanding 21 that their budget has been cut and that their 22 staffing levels are not what they should be in 23 order to enforce this bill. How are they 24 going to get to the ability to enforce and go

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(518) 371-8910 1 into those areas -- gas stations, drugstores, 2 you name it, delis -- that are small and are 3 not redeeming the bottles currently? Are they 4 going to redeem more? 5 SENATOR THOMPSON: Very, very 6 good points. I want to thank you for that 7 question, those two specific questions. 8 Two things on that item right 9 there. Number one, this bill creates a Bigger 10 Better Bottle Bill hotline. And I believe 11 that the number will be on the stickers or 12 signs that are posted in each of the stores at 13 the point of sale. 14 In addition to that, this bill 15 allows for coordination between Ag & Markets. 16 As you know, they have about 150 to 200 folks 17 on the streets. I'll get the exact number 18 before the end of the night. And they will 19 also have enforcement authority as well. In 20 addition, this bill allows for local 21 governments to have enforcement of the Bottle 22 Bill as well. So you have three sets of eyes 23 working for enforcement -- which we don't have 24 now. Ag & Markets does not have enforcement

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(518) 371-8910 1 cooperation with DEC. Local municipal 2 governments, whether cities or counties, 3 currently do not have enforcement authority. 4 And right now, if you go into any of those 5 stores, at the cash registers, unlike with 6 cigarettes and unlike with alcohol, there's no 7 signage that talks about the Bottle Bill of 8 Rights. 9 So I think that it's not perfect, 10 but the sentiment that has been raised by 11 people who are even passionately for the issue 12 and people who are hostilely opposed to it, 13 some of those issues have been addressed in 14 the bill. 15 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Madam 16 President, through you, if the Senator would 17 continue to yield. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 19 Senator Thompson, do you continue to yield? 20 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes, 21 absolutely. 22 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Senator 23 Thompson, in the original Bottle Bill, the one 24 that was amended in the process, the City of

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(518) 371-8910 1 New York got an exemption for small stores 2 under 10,000 square feet. That exemption was 3 not given to similar-sized stores in the rest 4 of the state, on Long Island, upstate, 5 whatever. Has that been changed in the 6 current language? 7 SENATOR THOMPSON: Through you, 8 Madam Chair. Jeez, you should have wrote my 9 talking points for me. 10 Yes, Senator, that has been 11 addressed. In the amendment part of this 12 budget, another thing raised by people not 13 only in your conference but members of our 14 conference, statewide there will be a 15 10,0000-square-foot exemption in terms of you 16 can only bring, I believe, about 72 containers 17 at a time. Right? 18 So we have expanded that exemption 19 statewide as a result of the two hearings, in 20 addition to conversations and memos from 21 members on both sides of the aisle. So that 22 has been expanded statewide. 23 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Madam 24 President, I thank the Senator for his

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(518) 371-8910 1 comments. 2 And I would just urge that we take 3 a hard look at this piece of legislation. 4 Because this piece, from all of the industry 5 that I talked to and all of the people that I 6 talked to tells me that it is going to hurt 7 the businesses. They're going to hurt the 8 bottling community, they're going to lose jobs 9 upstate, they're going to lose in the bottling 10 areas and you're going to lose in the 11 breweries that are up there. They're going to 12 stop expanding, and they're going to cut back 13 on other things. 14 So this is going to hurt jobs, it's 15 going to hurt the curbside recycling program. 16 And I think it's a problem that hasn't been 17 thought out carefully. I think that the 18 revenue stream is questionable on this one, at 19 best. It is a guesstimate at best, Senator. 20 I respect your concerns, I respect 21 your efforts. But I thank you for your 22 attention. 23 SENATOR THOMPSON: Just in 24 conclusion on the En Con budget, but also a

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(518) 371-8910 1 couple of other things that I think that are 2 important to note on the Bottle Bill. 3 Number one, the issue of curbside 4 recycling. The State of New York, through the 5 EPF, is going to spend $10.8 million this year 6 on municipal recycling. And as many of us 7 know, volunteer recycling programs in some 8 areas of the state are better; in other areas, 9 they are not. 10 I am committed to work with 11 individuals to make sure that that 12 $10.8 million is better spent by 13 municipalities and local governments as it 14 relates to curbside recycling. I agree with 15 you, we've got to do a better job. But we've 16 been spending this money for many years, and 17 we have not gotten the desired results. 18 The last thing I believe is 19 important to note is about the 1982 issue. In 20 1982, everyone said, we were starting from 21 scratch. We had no infrastructure in place. 22 And they said that companies were going to 23 leave, people were going to lose their jobs. 24 And people came together, and they made it

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(518) 371-8910 1 happen. 2 And I believe that this bill today 3 is a compromise bill. We tried to address 4 many of the issues. And as many of you can 5 tell, that we spent a lot of time carefully 6 thinking through some of the concerns. 7 People said to me, don't put a 8 48-ounce bottle of tomato juice or V-8 juice 9 on this list. All right, we said; I can 10 understand that. Somebody said don't put baby 11 formula on the list. We heard them. Somebody 12 said, well, I know we want to do sports drinks 13 and other ice teas and Snapples. A gentleman 14 came from New York City or Long Island and 15 said, "I know that Red Bull sells at a rapid 16 rate, but please, not this time. Can we do 17 that at another phase?" 18 So we heard a lot of concerns that 19 people have raised. All right? We have. But 20 at the same time, as we said in the process -- 21 in public, through the hearings -- that we've 22 got to take a step. We've got to take a first 23 step. 24 And I believe that this is a first

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(518) 371-8910 1 step, it's the right step. If it's good 2 enough for Connecticut, where Poland Spring is 3 located, it's good enough for New York, which 4 is the third-biggest state in the union. 5 Thank you. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 7 Senator Young. 8 SENATOR YOUNG: Thank you, Madam 9 President. 10 I actually had a question for 11 Senator Aubertine, but I don't see him in the 12 chamber at this particular moment. So I'll be 13 able to discuss this with him tomorrow, I'm 14 sure. 15 But I do want to take this 16 opportunity to address a concern that Senator 17 Kruger brought up previously about the 18 $1 billion undesignated fund that's included 19 in this budget. 20 And I'd like to correct the chair 21 of Senate Finance about the definition of a 22 dry appropriation. A dry appropriation is an 23 item that's included in the budget that you're 24 not going to spend. It will not be spent.

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(518) 371-8910 1 However, if you have an 2 undesignated fund and you will be expending 3 that money and the purpose is not lined out in 4 the budget and it will be spent at a later 5 time, it is in fact a slush fund. 6 Thank you, Madam President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 8 Senator Bonacic. 9 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you, 10 Madam President. 11 Will Senator Kruger just yield for 12 a quick question. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 14 Senator Kruger, do you yield? 15 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 16 Madam President. 17 SENATOR BONACIC: I'd like to get 18 back to the Empire Zone, if I may. 19 It's my understanding that under 20 this budget proposal the local zone manager 21 will be eliminated and all decisions of future 22 financial assistance will be made by the 23 Empire State Development Corp. Is that 24 correct?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 2 you, Madam President, yes, that's true. 3 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you. 4 Thank you, Senator Kruger. 5 You can rest now. On the bill. 6 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Oh, that 7 was easy. 8 SENATOR BONACIC: I want you to 9 relax. You've been working hard tonight. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 11 Senator Bonacic, on the bill. 12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you, 13 Madam President. 14 SENATOR BONACIC: I just want to 15 share a couple of experiences about the Empire 16 Zone, if I may. 17 When this was implemented under 18 Governor Pataki, this was an economic tool to 19 try to help upstate. And what we found when 20 companies came in and filled out applications, 21 and they said in three years we're going to 22 create 800 jobs, let's say, or in five years, 23 in stages. And what happens is let's say they 24 only made 500 jobs; they came up short.

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(518) 371-8910 1 But what happened was technology 2 became more efficient. And they used 3 technology to make their operations and bottom 4 line more successful, and they didn't need to 5 enhance those jobs. It doesn't mean that the 6 Empire Zone was not successful. It was very 7 successful, because we wouldn't have gotten 8 500 jobs in areas that were not doing well. 9 Now, when we discussed the Empire 10 Zones, as Senator Thompson did, and Senator 11 Stachowski, you can't analyze it just with the 12 mechanisms of how the zone is going to work. 13 You have to look at the total picture. And 14 what do I mean by that? 15 When Governor Paterson gave his 16 proposal of changing the rules from 15 to 1 to 17 20 to 1, retroactively, he basically said, to 18 corporations and small businesses, drop dead. 19 That's what he said. And the highest elected 20 official in the State of New York, that was 21 his message. 22 Now, Senator Stachowski stood up 23 here and he said, in speaking to Senator 24 Nozzolio, didn't we make it better, didn't we

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(518) 371-8910 1 change, didn't we salvage the 15 to 1 but 2 prospectively the rules would be 20 to 1? 3 Isn't it better? He tried to get Senator 4 Nozzolio to say yes. 5 The way corporate America works, 6 the way small businesses work, they make -- 7 first of all, let's talk about corporate 8 America. They're answerable to their 9 stockholders, and the bottom line is profit 10 and certainty when they plan. 11 Under this proposal, they don't 12 know what's going to happen in 15 months. 13 What does Senator Stachowski say? He says 14 there's going to be a better tomorrow. That's 15 why we made the day shorter, because we will 16 do something better for you. 17 How can corporation and small 18 business trust that policy when the Governor 19 has already said drop dead, when he's kept the 20 20-to-1 formula prospectively if a company 21 wants to expand and the rules are vague, when 22 the local zone guy is now eliminated, it's now 23 made by the Empire State Development for 24 future financial assistance that answers to

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(518) 371-8910 1 Governor Paterson. 2 How can anyone say these are not 3 negative messages to small businesses and 4 corporations? And when we go here to try to 5 have credibility to small businesses and 6 corporations, are we not taxing them more? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 8 Senator Krueger, why do you rise? 9 SENATOR BONACIC: I will not -- I 10 will not -- Senator Krueger, I don't mean to 11 be disrespectful, but I'd like to finish my 12 thoughts. 13 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I didn't 14 even ask yet. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 16 I just asked her why she rose, and she -- 17 SENATOR BONACIC: I hate to say 18 no to her, so I'm asking her not to. 19 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I will wait 20 to ask my question until Senator Bonacic is 21 done. 22 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you, 23 Senator Krueger. And I didn't miss my train 24 of thought, either, by you standing up.

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(518) 371-8910 1 (Laughter.) 2 SENATOR BONACIC: When you 3 increase personal income taxes, don't you 4 think that's a message of economic destruction 5 to small businesses and corporations that are 6 interested in profit, that are interested in 7 bottom line to their stockholders? Don't you 8 think when you raise electric rates by 9 $600 million that's not economic destruction 10 messages to these companies? Don't you think 11 when you raise health insurance premiums by 12 $240 million that's not a negative message to 13 companies? 14 So to discuss Empire Zones without 15 discussing the total message, it's not 16 realistic. The Manhattan Institute alone 17 estimates that the PIT increase of the 18 personal income tax, that will be 15,000 jobs 19 lost, small businesses. 20 So I think Senator Nozzolio and 21 Senator Winner are absolutely correct. People 22 are going to vote with their feet. This is a 23 job-killer. And they're going to look to go 24 to more fertile pastures than the State of

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(518) 371-8910 1 New York. 2 And I will say, in conclusion, when 3 the recovery comes -- and I hope to God it 4 comes sooner rather than later -- I believe 5 that the State of New York will lag in job 6 growth from the nation because of the budget 7 and the destructive policies and job-killing 8 policies we're doing in this legislation. 9 Thank you, Madam President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 11 Senator Liz Krueger. 12 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 13 Madam President. Would Senator Bonacic please 14 yield for a question? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 16 Senator Bonacic, do you yield? 17 SENATOR BONACIC: Absolutely. 18 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 19 Senator Bonacic. 20 So you referenced in your points 21 that this was a program started for upstate 22 New York. It's my understanding it was 23 actually started statewide and that it's gone 24 through a series of different changes and

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(518) 371-8910 1 reforms over the course of history. Is that 2 correct? 3 SENATOR BONACIC: Yes, it's true. 4 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 5 And Senator -- I'm sorry, through 6 you, Madam President, if Senator Bonacic would 7 continue to yield. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 9 Do you continue to yield, Senator? 10 SENATOR BONACIC: I will. And 11 you can keep asking as many questions as you 12 like without going the chair. 13 SENATOR L. KRUEGER: No, we love 14 the etiquette. Thank you so much. 15 SENATOR BONACIC: Okay. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 17 We need the protocol. 18 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: We need the 19 president to feel she has a role here. Excuse 20 me. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 22 It's protocol. 23 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 24 Senator Bonacic, are you familiar

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(518) 371-8910 1 with the series that the Syracuse 2 Post-Standard has done on exploitation of the 3 Empire Zone program by some? 4 SENATOR BONACIC: I have no clue 5 what that newspaper said. I don't usually pay 6 attention to newspapers. 7 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Madam 8 President, if the Senator would continue to 9 yield. 10 SENATOR BONACIC: I will. 11 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 12 Well, I enjoy a good newspaper, and 13 I think the Syracuse Post-Standard is a 14 particularly good one. But they've done a 15 series of articles about problems with the 16 Empire Zones. And in fact, out of some of the 17 findings of the reports, we did some reforms 18 to Empire Zones, in fact, when your side of 19 the aisle was the majority here. 20 And you referenced tonight concerns 21 that we were trying to destroy the program, 22 which I don't agree with. I believe we have 23 to reform the program. But you referenced 24 that the proposal in this bill would destroy

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(518) 371-8910 1 the program. 2 And do you know that the changes to 3 the Empire Zone in this bill are the 4 following: To cut out shirt-changers from 5 being allowed to take tax deductions under 6 this law, which means the "shirt-changers" 7 expression for companies that don't create new 8 jobs but change their corporate title in order 9 to appear to have created jobs. And that's 10 one of the proposals of change to the Empire 11 Zone in this law. 12 Are you comfortable with allowing 13 companies that haven't created any new jobs 14 and didn't even try to create new jobs, just 15 changed their names to be able to continue to 16 get Empire Zone credits? 17 SENATOR BONACIC: Through you, 18 Madam President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 20 Senator. 21 SENATOR BONACIC: First of all, I 22 think there is an order process through Tax & 23 Finance that will take advantage or root out 24 those that are not performing up to the

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(518) 371-8910 1 benchmarks of the Empire Zone. 2 But when I spoke of the Empire 3 Zone, I spoke about an economic tool that 4 generally has been successful and is worth 5 keeping. Now, you if want to tinker with the 6 edges but keep the substance and the impact of 7 the Empire Zone, then I say we're in 8 agreement. But if you pick out one company or 9 one reform and say that's the reason to kill 10 the Empire Zone, I say that it's an overkill 11 and we've gone too far. 12 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Madam 13 President, if through you the Senator will 14 continue to yield. 15 SENATOR BONACIC: I will. 16 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 17 So we discussed one of the proposed 18 changes in the Empire Zone program, which is 19 companies that did not create jobs but changed 20 their names. The second piece of this 21 proposal in the bill tonight is to require 22 that a business have a cost-benefit ratio of 23 more than 1 to 1 in order to be able to 24 participate in the program.

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(518) 371-8910 1 That simply means if a company's 2 costs for a job are greater to the state than 3 the actual value of the job, then we would 4 actually be able to say no, you're costing the 5 state more than you've even produced in jobs. 6 Do you think that that's wrong to 7 say to the companies not 20-to-1 ratio, not 8 15-to-1 ratio, not 10-to-1 ratio, not 5-to-1 9 ratio, but this proposal in this bill tonight 10 is only a less than 1-to-1 ratio, we're trying 11 to be able to remove them from the program? 12 What do you think of that, sir? 13 SENATOR BONACIC: Through you, 14 Madam President. The 1-to-1 ratio, as I 15 understand it, applies to the companies 16 retroactively since the Empire Zone was cited. 17 And it means simply this. If they have spent 18 more in private benefits, $1.10 versus $1 of 19 public benefits, they will not be certified. 20 That was a change that was made that was 21 better than the Governor's proposal of 20 to 22 1. That's a good thing. That portion is a 23 good thing. 24 But, Madam President, I would like

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(518) 371-8910 1 to ask Senator Krueger a question, if she will 2 yield to a question. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 4 Senator Krueger, do you yield? 5 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I'd be 6 happy to yield to a question, Senator. 7 SENATOR BONACIC: Senator 8 Krueger, do you think when we increase the tax 9 rates on businesses and do you agree that if 10 we raise the electric surcharges on business 11 and do you believe if we increase the cost of 12 health insurance premiums on business that 13 that will have a negative effect on the 14 creation of jobs, whether they're in the 15 Empire Zone or not, whether it's retroactive 16 or prospective? What do you think about that? 17 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I think 18 that taxes always have an impact on economic 19 activity, that there are taxes that do more 20 harm to business and taxes that do less harm 21 to business. 22 But what I'm sure of is that if you 23 want to have a state that has a business 24 community and that thrives in the 21st

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(518) 371-8910 1 century, you have to make sure that your 2 population is well educated so that they can 3 be the workers for the businesses. You have 4 to make sure that you have a public 5 infrastructure so that people can move around 6 the state. You have to make sure that you 7 have quality healthcare; otherwise, no one 8 will be interested in living in the state. 9 And to oversimplify, I sometimes 10 explain myself, when I talk about taxation and 11 the realities of the role of government, is if 12 you're a business and you want to hire people 13 to work in your business, you have to make 14 sure that they have the right education level 15 and can get to where you have your jobs. 16 And if you're a business that's 17 selling something -- and all businesses are 18 selling something -- you have to make sure 19 that people can earn enough in their jobs to 20 be able to buy whatever you're trying to sell. 21 So it's a broad question with a 22 broad answer. But again, to get to Empire 23 Zones -- and maybe I'll just speak on the bill 24 rather than ask you an additional question

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(518) 371-8910 1 unless you have a question for me first. 2 SENATOR BONACIC: I do. 3 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Madam 4 President, I'm sorry, that should have gone 5 through you. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 7 Senator Bonacic, do you have a question for 8 Senator Krueger? 9 SENATOR BONACIC: Will Senator 10 Krueger continue to yield to another question? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 12 Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield? 13 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, I'd be 14 happy to, Senator Bonacic. 15 SENATOR BONACIC: Do you think if 16 government policies tax more and take capital 17 away from small businesses and corporations 18 that that will lead to more jobs or they will 19 have less money to create new jobs? 20 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: No, I think 21 it's a catch-22. As I've explained, that you 22 have to make sure that you're balancing the 23 public's need for an operating government and 24 a quality of life in the state in order to be

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(518) 371-8910 1 a win for the businesses. 2 And no, you of course want to try 3 to keep your tax rate as minimal as possible 4 in relationship to your cost. 5 But I think in terms of an Empire 6 Zone, another factor that's critically 7 important for people to understand, this isn't 8 taxing businesses. In an Empire Zone, we are 9 making a decision -- we the Legislature, 10 through the legislation we pass -- to be 11 selectively not taxing businesses. So in an 12 Empire Zone, they're getting to reduce their 13 taxes compared to another business. 14 So if Senator Kruger's widget 15 company is physically in Ulster County and 16 Senator Bonacic's widget company is in Orange 17 County, and Kruger's widgets are made in an 18 Empire Zone and Bonacic widgets are not, the 19 reality is we are favoring Senator Kruger's 20 widgets over Senator Bonacic's widgets. 21 So it's a dual responsibility of 22 government. One, we're not collecting the tax 23 revenue, which means, to follow through on 24 another question, we have less money to pay

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(518) 371-8910 1 for schools that people were concerned about, 2 to pay for highways that people were concerned 3 about, to pay for the environment that people 4 were concerned about, because we chose not to 5 tax Senator Kruger's widgets. So that's a 6 heavy responsibility. 7 And I think we should be very 8 careful about how we select to give people tax 9 breaks over other people or other companies. 10 So I have an equity concern, which is why I'm 11 very comfortable with putting a limit that 12 shirt-changing companies shouldn't get these 13 tax deductions and companies that can't even 14 make a 1-to-1 economic ratio shouldn't get 15 these special deals. 16 And then, two, there's the 17 fundamental question of equity, which I think 18 is hard to deal with in the context of Empire 19 Zones. Which means because of physically 20 where I'm located, I might get a major 21 advantage over your company and we might both 22 make perfectly good, quality widgets. 23 And so there are hard questions 24 with the Empire Zone that are much broader

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(518) 371-8910 1 than just what level of tax do you charge a 2 company. Because in fact in this discussion, 3 it's what level of tax deductions do we give. 4 And of course, as we know, the Empire Zone 5 program is costing the people of New York 6 $600, $700, $800 million a year. 7 The proposed changes in this bill I 8 hope we will pass soon is only $90 million in 9 savings. And there's quite a bit of 10 flexibility in it, because even under those 11 two changes it allows the DED to make a 12 decision to allow a company to continue in the 13 program even if they don't appear to meet the 14 standards. And in fact, the Senate policy in 15 this bill tonight, as compared to the 16 Executive's original proposal, is saving 8,180 17 companies from losing their Empire Zone 18 status. 19 And so I think we made a very good 20 deal on the Empire Zones this year. We 21 allowed almost 8200 companies to remain in the 22 program. We put some very reasonable limits 23 on the type of companies that would no longer 24 be able to participate. We are not

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(518) 371-8910 1 retroactively asking for the money back, to 2 also answer a question of yours. So companies 3 who may have been more effective in meeting 4 our standards earlier, they're not being asked 5 to give the money back. 6 So actually I think we are making a 7 great deal of progress with Empire Zones this 8 year. And while there may be lots of 9 discussions about different parts of the bill, 10 I would be very surprised if anyone would want 11 to vote against this section of the bill 12 tonight. 13 Thank you. 14 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you, 15 Senator Krueger. 16 Continuing on the bill. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 18 Senator Bonacic, on the bill. 19 SENATOR BONACIC: A lot of 20 Senator Krueger's remarks, again, brought the 21 conversation solely to the companies in the 22 Empire Zones and those that are not concerning 23 widgets. And that's really a distraction. 24 Because what we have said is that we are

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(518) 371-8910 1 competing now. We are competing in a global 2 economy, we are competing with neighboring 3 states. And we have to stay competitive. 4 I think we have probably one of the 5 highest tax rates in the nation, and it's 6 going to get worse. And all of these efforts 7 of raising electric rates, raising health 8 insurance policies, raising taxes, making the 9 Empire Zone more strict, these are negative 10 messages to small businesses and corporations. 11 And they have mobility, and they will vote 12 with their feet. So the point that I'm making 13 is this is an anti-business, job-killing 14 budget. 15 Thank you, Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 17 you, Senator Bonacic. 18 Are there any other Senators who 19 wish to speak on the bill? 20 Seeing none, the debate is closed. 21 The Secretary will ring the bells. 22 I ask all Senators to come to the chamber to 23 cast their votes. 24 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I

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(518) 371-8910 1 would request a slow roll call on this bill, 2 please. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: A slow 4 roll call has been requested. The requisite 5 five Senators have stood, so we will proceed 6 with the slow roll call. 7 The Secretary will read the last 8 section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: A slow 12 roll call has been called for. Seeing that 13 five Senators have risen, the Secretary will 14 call the roll slowly. 15 And I ask that Senators who wish to 16 explain their vote be mindful of the 17 two-minute rule. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Adams. 19 SENATOR ADAMS: Yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Addabbo. 21 SENATOR ADDABBO: Yes. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Alesi. 23 SENATOR ALESI: No. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Aubertine. 2 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bonacic. 4 SENATOR BONACIC: No. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Breslin. 6 SENATOR BRESLIN: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator 8 DeFrancisco. 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Diaz. 11 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Dilan. 13 (No response.) 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Duane. 15 SENATOR DUANE: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 17 SENATOR ESPADA: Yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 19 SENATOR FARLEY: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Flanagan. 21 SENATOR FLANAGAN: No. 22 (Standing ovation as Senator 23 Hassell-Thompson enters the chamber.) 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The

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(518) 371-8910 1 Secretary will continue to call the roll 2 slowly. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Foley. 4 SENATOR FOLEY: Aye. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator 6 Fuschillo. 7 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: No. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Golden. 9 SENATOR GOLDEN: No. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Griffo. 11 SENATOR GRIFFO: No. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon. 13 SENATOR HANNON: No. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator 15 Hassell-Thompson. 16 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Here, 17 and yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Huntley. 19 SENATOR HUNTLEY: Yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator C. 21 Johnson. 22 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Yes. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator O. 24 Johnson.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR OWEN JOHNSON: No. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Klein. 3 SENATOR KLEIN: Yes. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator 5 L. Krueger. 6 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator C. 8 Kruger. 9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lanza. 11 SENATOR LANZA: No. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 13 SENATOR LARKIN: No. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle. 15 SENATOR LaVALLE: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell. 17 SENATOR LEIBELL: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous. 19 SENATOR LIBOUS: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Little. 21 SENATOR LITTLE: No. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator 23 Marcellino. 24 SENATOR MARCELLINO: No.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz. 2 SENATOR MAZIARZ: No. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator McDonald. 4 SENATOR McDONALD: No. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator 6 Monserrate. 7 SENATOR MONSERRATE: Aye. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator 9 Montgomery. 10 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Morahan. 12 SENATOR MORAHAN: No. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nozzolio. 14 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: No. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Onorato. 16 SENATOR ONORATO: Yes. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator 18 Oppenheimer. 19 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Aye. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: No. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Parker. 23 SENATOR PARKER: Aye. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Perkins.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR PERKINS: Aye. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator 3 Ranzenhofer. 4 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: No. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Robach. 6 SENATOR ROBACH: No. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 8 SENATOR SALAND: No. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sampson. 10 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Savino. 12 SENATOR SAVINO: Yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator 14 Schneiderman. 15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Serrano. 17 SENATOR SERRANO: Yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 19 SENATOR SEWARD: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 21 (Senator Skelos was recorded in the 22 negative.) 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 24 (Senator Smith was recorded in the

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(518) 371-8910 1 affirmative.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Squadron. 3 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator 5 Stachowski. 6 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky. 8 SENATOR STAVISKY: Aye. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator 10 Stewart-Cousins. 11 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: Yes. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Thompson. 13 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Valesky. 15 SENATOR VALESKY: Aye. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker. 17 SENATOR VOLKER: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Winner. 19 SENATOR WINNER: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Young. 21 SENATOR YOUNG: No. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 23 Secretary will call the absentees. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Dilan.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DILAN: I'm here, and 2 it's yes. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 4 Secretary will announce the results. 5 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 32. Nays, 6 30. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 8 bill is passed. 9 Senator Klein. 10 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, I 11 move that we adjourn until Wednesday, 12 April 1st, at 9:30. 13 And I want to tell my colleagues on 14 both sides of the aisle we're going to be 15 doing a lot of work to pass our budget 16 tomorrow, as well as West Point Day, so please 17 be on time. 18 I'd also now like to call on my 19 colleague Senator Libous for his announcement. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Libous. 22 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, 23 Senator Klein. 24 Mr. President, there will be a

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(518) 371-8910 1 Republican conference tomorrow morning at 9:15 2 sharp. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: A 4 Republican conference at 9:15 tomorrow. 5 On a motion by Senator Klein, the 6 Senate stands adjourned until tomorrow, 7 April 1st, at 9:30 a.m. 8 (Whereupon, at 10:00 p.m., the 9 Senate adjourned.) 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

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