Thursday, April 2, 2009

1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE 2 3 4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 April 2, 2009 11 9:53 a.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR DAVID J. VALESKY, Acting President 19 ANGELO J. APONTE, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 Senate will please come to order. 4 I ask everyone present to please 5 rise and recite with me the Pledge of 6 Allegiance. 7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Father 10 Peter G. Young, of Mother Theresa Community 11 here in Albany, is with us this morning to 12 provide the invocation. 13 REVEREND YOUNG: Thank you, 14 Senator. Let us pray. 15 As we gather this morning in this 16 early session, may we again pray for the 17 health of all of our Senators. And may we 18 pray that they who have been accepted into the 19 leadership position so that they can more 20 fully serve the people of our great state. 21 In the spirit of community, may our 22 prayer today be that we will be better able to 23 achieve the goal of dedicated representation 24 in the power that is entrusted to all of our

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 legislative leadership. 2 May they attain Your satisfaction 3 in Your services and Your services to our 4 needy constituents all over the state. 5 We ask You this in Your name, now 6 you forever. Amen. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 8 you, Father. 9 The reading of the Journal. 10 The Secretary will read. 11 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 12 Wednesday, April 1, the Senate met pursuant to 13 adjournment. The Journal of Tuesday, 14 March 31, was read and approved. On motion, 15 Senate adjourned. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Without objection, the Journal stands approved 18 as read. 19 Presentation of petitions. 20 Messages from the Assembly. 21 Messages from the Governor. 22 Reports of standing committees. 23 Reports of select committees. 24 Communications and reports from

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 state officers. 2 Motions and resolutions. 3 Senator Klein. 4 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, I 5 believe Senator Schneiderman has a privileged 6 resolution at the desk. I'd ask that you read 7 the title of the resolution and give Senator 8 Schneiderman the opportunity to speak on the 9 said resolution. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 11 Secretary will read. 12 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 13 Schneiderman, Legislative Resolution Number 14 1192, paying tribute to the lifetime 15 achievements and contributions to the 16 Dominican Community of this year's 22nd Annual 17 Somos El Futuro Conference honoree, Raquel E. 18 Batista, Esquire. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 20 Senator Schneiderman, on the resolution. 21 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 22 Mr. President. 23 We're going to be wrestling with a 24 lot of difficult issues here today, but I

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 think it is appropriate to start the day by 2 honoring someone who has been serving in my 3 community and serving people in the greater 4 metropolitan area of New York City for many, 5 many years, who is retiring from her position 6 as the head of the Northern Manhattan 7 Immigrants Rights Coalition, Raquel Batista. 8 And I would like to remind all of 9 my colleagues that the best way to celebrate 10 finishing a budget is at Somos El Futuro, 11 which is this weekend here in the Capitol. So 12 for any of you who still have the energy for a 13 few more days in Albany, we will be honoring 14 Ms. Batista along with a whole array of 15 distinguished New Yorkers at that time. 16 Thank you, Mr. President. I'm very 17 proud to support this resolution. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 19 you, Senator Schneiderman. 20 All in favor of adopting the 21 resolution indicate by saying aye. 22 (Response of "Aye.") 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Opposed, nay.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 (No response.) 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 resolution is adopted. 4 The resolution is open for 5 cosponsorship. Any member wishing not to 6 cosponsor Senator Schneiderman's resolution 7 should notify the desk. 8 And also, one announcement as the 9 day continues. I would remind the members 10 that the rules prohibit the use of cellphones 11 in the chamber. Those of you who heard sounds 12 through the microphone system yesterday, it 13 was an indication of cellphones that were 14 being used. 15 So I would simply ask members as 16 the day proceeds, if you have to make calls or 17 receive calls, please do that outside of the 18 chamber. Thank you. 19 Senator Klein. 20 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 21 can we please stand at ease. 22 And please, I ask all my colleagues 23 to stay close to the Senate chamber. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senate will stand at ease. 2 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 3 ease at 9:57 a.m.) 4 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened 5 at 10:04 a.m.) 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 7 Senator Klein. 8 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, at 9 this time can we open the roll, with unanimous 10 consent, on each bill on today's active list. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: At 12 this point we will open the roll, with 13 unanimous consent from the Minority, on each 14 of the eight remaining budget bills, for the 15 sole purpose of allowing Senator 16 Hassell-Thompson to cast her vote. 17 After that point in time, the roll 18 call will be withdrawn, the bill will be laid 19 aside, and we will return to debating each 20 bill on the controversial calendar. 21 The Secretary will read. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 132, substituted March 31st, Assembly Budget 24 Bill, Assembly Print Number 135C, an act

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 making appropriations for the support of 2 government: Education, Labor and Family 3 Assistance Budget. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator Hassell-Thompson. 13 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Aye. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Withdraw the roll call and lay the bill aside. 16 The Secretary will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 133, substituted March 31st, Assembly Budget 19 Bill, Assembly Print Number 154C, an act 20 making appropriations for the support of 21 government: Health and Mental Hygiene Budget. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read 23 the last section. 24 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Hassell-Thompson. 7 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Aye. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 9 Withdraw the roll call and lay the bill aside. 10 The Secretary will read. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 130, substituted April 1, Assembly Budget 13 Bill, Assembly Print Number 150C, an act 14 making appropriations for the support of 15 government: Public Protection and General 16 Government Budget. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read 18 the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Hassell-Thompson. 2 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Aye. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Withdraw the roll call and lay the bill aside. 5 The Secretary will read. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 136, substituted April 1, Assembly Budget 8 Bill, Assembly Print Number 157B, an act to 9 amend the Education Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read 11 the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 18 Senator Hassell-Thompson. 19 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Aye. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Withdraw the roll call and lay the bill aside. 22 The Secretary will read. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 138, substituted April 1, Assembly Budget

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Bill, Assembly Print Number 159B, an act to 2 amend Chapter 279 of the Laws of 1998 amending 3 the Transportation Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator Hassell-Thompson. 13 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Aye. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Withdraw the roll call and lay the bill aside. 16 The Secretary will continue to 17 read. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 137, substituted March 31, Assembly Budget 20 Bill, Assembly Print Number 158B, an act to 21 amend the Public Health Law and the Elder Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read 23 the last section. 24 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Hassell-Thompson. 7 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Aye. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 9 Withdraw the roll call and lay the bill aside. 10 The Secretary will continue to 11 read. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 135, substituted April 1, Assembly Budget 14 Bill, Assembly Print Number 156B, an act to 15 amend the State Finance Law. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read 17 the last section. 18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 19 act shall take effect immediately. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call 21 the roll. 22 (The Secretary called the roll.) 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Senator Hassell-Thompson.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Aye. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Withdraw the roll call and lay the bill aside. 4 The Secretary will continue to 5 read. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 131, substituted April 1, Assembly Budget 8 Bill, Assembly Print Number 151A, an act 9 making appropriations for the support of 10 government: Legislature and Judiciary Budget. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read 12 the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call 16 the roll. 17 (The Secretary called the roll.) 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator Hassell-Thompson. 20 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Aye. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Withdraw the roll call and lay the bill aside. 23 Senator Smith. 24 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you very

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 much, Mr. President. 2 Colleagues, Senator Skelos, this is 3 a day where obviously our chamber once again 4 distinguishes itself. We have a member who, 5 for natural reasons, has found herself in a 6 condition where she cannot stay in the 7 chamber. 8 I want to express my appreciation 9 to Senator Skelos and to all my colleagues. 10 This is a day that I think the 19 million 11 people of New York have come to recognize as 12 this is a fine chamber. Irrespective of all 13 that the papers have written, the editorial 14 boards have said, today we have proven to all 15 of New York that we are a distinguished body, 16 that we are also a body that has a heart and 17 understands the challenges that face this 18 state, and we rise above that. 19 Senator Skelos, we spoke several 20 times. And I will tell all my colleagues, the 21 leader was extremely heartfelt, he was very 22 disturbed, very concerned about our colleague. 23 He was concerned about our colleague. 24 And if we can at least remember

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 what this day is for us, that we are all 2 colleagues. Notwithstanding our beliefs and 3 interests, we are all colleagues. 4 And I would hope that as we move 5 forward with the day, one, that we keep my 6 colleague Senator Ruth Hassell-Thompson in 7 prayer. 8 I love you, and you know how I feel 9 about you. 10 And also, I want us to remember 11 what was done this morning. I want to us 12 remember what was done this morning. And we 13 appreciate it tremendously, Senator Skelos. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Senator Skelos. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, 17 Senator Smith. 18 And, Ruth, we welcome you back. We 19 know it's going to be just for a few minutes 20 now. But we ask God to give you a speedy 21 recovery, because in the Senate we are all one 22 family. We may have our disagreements at 23 times, but we all respect each other, we all 24 love each other, and we pray together that you

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 have a speedy recovery and that you join the 2 debate and the process that we have here in 3 the Senate. 4 So God bless you. Speedy recovery. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 6 you, Senator Skelos. 7 Senator Klein. 8 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 9 can we take up the active list at this time 10 and treat it as a controversial calendar. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 12 Secretary will proceed with the reading of the 13 controversial calendar, beginning with 14 Calendar 132, which members will recall was 15 debated yesterday. We'll pick up at that 16 point. 17 Senator Libous. 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 19 would request a slow roll call on the bill. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: We're 21 not on the roll call yet, Senator Libous. 22 Let's bring the bill back before the house 23 first. 24 SENATOR LIBOUS: I'll sit back

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 down, thank you. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 Secretary will read. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 132, substituted March 31, Assembly Budget 6 Bill, Assembly Print Number 153C, an act 7 making appropriations for the support of 8 government: Education, Labor and Family 9 Assistance Budget. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Are 11 there any other Senators who wish to debate 12 Calendar Number 132? 13 Seeing none, the debate is closed. 14 The Secretary will ring the bell. 15 I ask all members to proceed 16 immediately to the chamber so that we may 17 proceed with the roll call on Calendar Number 18 132. 19 The Secretary will read the last 20 section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call 24 the roll.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator Skelos, a slow roll call has been 4 requested. 5 Seeing the required minimum of five 6 Senators having stood, a slow roll call is in 7 order. 8 The Secretary will ring the bells 9 and call the roll slowly. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Adams. 11 SENATOR ADAMS: Yes. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Addabbo. 13 SENATOR ADDABBO: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Alesi. 15 SENATOR ALESI: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Aubertine. 18 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bonacic. 20 SENATOR BONACIC: To explain my 21 vote. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Bonacic, to explain his vote. 24 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. 2 You know, this chamber has always 3 been champions of SUNY and CUNY. And I'm 4 disappointed in the cut of approximately 5 $50 million we allowed SUNY and CUNY to keep 6 of the tuition increase, and we swept 7 $150 million in the General Fund. 8 To me, that was a raid. That was a 9 betrayal of trust from the students who paid 10 the tuition, from the middle-class families 11 who sacrificed the tuition so their children 12 could get a better education with what those 13 monies could have purchased. 14 That was a wrong priority. The 15 Senate Republicans have identified 16 $3.2 billion in alternate measures, sources of 17 funds we could have cut, but not the SUNY and 18 CUNY tuition. The most glaring one being the 19 $1 billion slush fund which was referred to in 20 the debate yesterday. 21 So for this reason, I'm voting no 22 on this. And thank you, Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Senator Bonacic, to be recorded in the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 negative. 2 The Secretary will continue to call 3 the roll slowly. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Breslin. 5 SENATOR BRESLIN: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator 7 DeFrancisco. 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: To explain 9 my vote. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 11 Senator DeFrancisco, to explain his vote. 12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I vote no 13 because of the sweeping of funds out of the 14 increase in tuition by SUNY and soon CUNY. 15 The problem with that is that 16 increases in tuition were done on the express 17 understanding -- this wasn't just the SUNY 18 board saying we're going to go ahead and raise 19 tuition again -- but the express condition 20 that it was going to be used for SUNY. And 21 that was a lie. And we're betraying that 22 trust by not providing those funds. 23 There's another problem with the 24 sweep. In our deficit reduction plan, we

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 swept SUNY tuition, but CUNY didn't get around 2 to increasing tuition yet. And that means 3 that upstate New York, those upstate colleges 4 ended up taking money from their schools when 5 CUNY didn't even get an increase yet. And 6 then after the increase, CUNY's increase is 7 going to be less than SUNY's increase, another 8 difference between upstate and downstate 9 New York. 10 I hope this doesn't mean that the 11 three New York City Democrats in a room have a 12 regional bias against the upstate community, 13 because I'm seeing more and more of that in 14 this budget. 15 In addition, the amount of money 16 that was taken out of libraries was peanuts 17 compared to all of the different projects that 18 are listed in this budget that only the public 19 should be able to read with amusement that 20 those would be priorities over libraries in 21 this difficult time. 22 So for those reasons, I vote no. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Senator DeFrancisco will be recorded in the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 negative. 2 The Secretary will continue to call 3 the roll slowly. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Diaz. 5 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Dilan. 7 SENATOR DILAN: Yes. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Duane. 9 SENATOR DUANE: Yes. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 11 SENATOR ESPADA: Yes. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 13 SENATOR FARLEY: To explain my 14 vote. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 16 Senator Farley, to explain his vote. 17 SENATOR FARLEY: As someone that 18 has spent most of his adult life working as a 19 law professor in SUNY, I just want to say how 20 badly I feel that this chamber in particular, 21 who has had a history of supporting our great 22 treasure of the State University system, has 23 somewhat abandoned it with this legislation. 24 And it's unfortunate. I think it's

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 a tragedy. And I want to just mention one 2 other thing that offends me about this piece 3 of legislation. Libraries, which this chamber 4 again has been in the forefront of not only 5 promoting and protecting. 6 And my colleagues on the other 7 side, who voted, I understand, unanimously to 8 restore all the library aid, it hasn't been 9 done. I feel badly about that because the 10 libraries desperately need it. 11 And it is with that and all of 12 these things in mind that I vote no. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Farley to be recorded in the negative. 15 The Secretary will continue to call 16 the roll slowly. 17 SENATOR FLANAGAN: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Foley. 19 SENATOR FOLEY: Aye. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator 21 Fuschillo. 22 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. 23 President, to briefly explain my vote. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Fuschillo, to explain his vote. 2 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: The modest 3 increases that some of my schools received was 4 mainly attributed to the federal stimulus 5 money. It's not enough. Long Island is still 6 not getting its fair share. We're losing 7 $129 million because the foundation aid was 8 frozen. We're losing $370 million because the 9 Governor took away the STAR rebates. We're 10 losing $499 million with those two particular 11 categories. 12 For that reason, I vote no on this 13 budget bill. 14 Thank you very much, Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 16 Senator Fuschillo to be recorded in the 17 negative. 18 The Secretary will continue to call 19 the roll. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Golden. 21 SENATOR GOLDEN: No. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Griffo. 23 SENATOR GRIFFO: To explain my 24 vote.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Griffo, to explain his vote. 3 SENATOR GRIFFO: Mr. President, 4 SUNY and CUNY both were told to help 5 themselves during these difficult times, and 6 they did that. They've put a burden on 7 students, a difficult burden on students, as 8 they're trying to make their way and receive a 9 higher education. 10 And then what do we see? The 11 Executive goes in and raids those monies, 12 takes them away from SUNY and CUNY at this 13 time when we need to help young people to 14 continue to pursue higher education. 15 You see libraries being abandoned. 16 It's only a matter of priorities. You could 17 have reprioritized and redirected some of the 18 funds to these type of organizations like 19 libraries, invest in higher education. And 20 still, as we had heard with the stimulus 21 program, use that in the right way so that 22 commitments mean something. 23 I think what we're showing and 24 demonstrating right now is a total disregard

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 and a disrespect for these institutions and 2 all of the fine people of this state who need 3 them to continue to be a part of this state. 4 For that reason, I vote no. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Griffo to be recorded in the negative. 7 The Secretary will continue to call 8 the roll. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon. 10 SENATOR HANNON: To explain my 11 vote. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 13 Senator Hannon, to explain his vote. 14 SENATOR HANNON: Thank you, 15 Mr. President. 16 Among the other reasons I'm voting 17 no on this measure is that embodied in this 18 education bill is the beginning of a series of 19 massive taxes on healthcare premiums that are 20 contained in this bill and other bills in this 21 budget package. It is a stealth tax. It's 22 going to result in increased costs to every 23 family in this state. There's $107 million 24 levied in this bill. This is part of the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 800-and-so-million that is levied throughout 2 this package. Why it's here, I don't know, 3 but it's a good reason to vote no on this 4 measure. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Hannon to be recorded in the negative. 7 The Secretary will continue to call 8 the roll. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator 10 Hassell-Thompson voting in the affirmative 11 earlier today. 12 Senator Huntley. 13 SENATOR HUNTLEY: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator C. 15 Johnson. 16 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Yes. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator O. 18 Johnson. 19 SENATOR OWEN JOHNSON: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Klein. 21 SENATOR KLEIN: Yes. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator L. 23 Krueger. 24 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator C. 2 Kruger. 3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lanza. 5 SENATOR LANZA: No. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 7 SENATOR LARKIN: To explain my 8 vote. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Larkin, to explain his vote. 11 SENATOR LARKIN: You know, I've 12 been listening to this debate on this bill for 13 a couple of days, and the mail in my office 14 has not diminished. Questions are raised: 15 We're going to take money from students, raise 16 the tuition. Everybody assumes that's going 17 to go to the college. And then the Governor 18 decides he's going to take it and put it in 19 his budget. 20 How many of you are answering your 21 mail? I know you've gotten the mail. What 22 are you saying? "Well, we had to take it from 23 somebody"? 24 And then as my good friend and

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 colleague and most knowledgeable on healthcare 2 Senator Hannon spread out the word of what's 3 going on, the taxes we're doing on it. 4 Have we lost our sense of 5 responsibility? I believe we have. We've 6 forsaken politics instead of the true measure 7 that we were sent here. We were sent here to 8 represent the people, not a political 9 persuasion. I vote for the people. I vote 10 no. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator Larkin to be recorded in the negative. 13 The Secretary will continue to call 14 the roll. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator LaValle, to explain his vote. 18 SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you, 19 Mr. President. 20 I want to remind everyone that my 21 remarks yesterday on offering up an amendment 22 to this bill is that the State University was 23 cut during 2008-2009 by $210 million. We had 24 swept from State University $134 million and

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 for CUNY swept $88 million, taken away. 2 We are a society, rule of law is 3 prevalent, and our processes. We have a 4 process where we have trustees, the Governor 5 appoints a chair. The SUNY board and the CUNY 6 board went out on a limb and said in order for 7 us to maintain quality education for our 8 students and to be able to do what we need to 9 do in terms of our economic responsibility, we 10 need a tuition increase. 11 And what we've done is we have gone 12 in and just taken that money. It's not a fee 13 increase any longer, it's tax on the students. 14 And I think it builds bitterness and 15 resentment which I think is going to be very 16 difficult to recapture. 17 Lastly, the elementary and 18 secondary schools, what we've put into place 19 is going to be a train wreck. Because of 20 using the stimulus money -- which is great, 21 helps us out. But I think we're going to have 22 to in the future replace that money somehow, 23 and it's a lot of money. 24 I vote in the negative,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator LaValle to be recorded in the 4 negative. 5 And the Secretary will continue to 6 call the roll. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 9 Senator Leibell, to explain his vote. 10 SENATOR LEIBELL: Mr. President, 11 this is one of the most troubling pieces in 12 what is truly a disastrous budget. It's not 13 that long ago that a Governor from the 14 Majority's party, Governor Spitzer, laid out a 15 plan and a dream for the SUNY and CUNY 16 systems. He identified how critically 17 important these two universities are to 18 New York State's future. 19 Today we are robbing those two 20 systems of that future and future generations 21 of New Yorkers of a great educational system. 22 We live in an increasingly 23 competitive world, a world that will need more 24 and more great universities, great teachers.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 We are depriving the young of New York State 2 of that future. 3 This is an abandonment of that 4 system. This is a path we are taking now 5 which is going to be disastrous for SUNY and 6 CUNY. The priorities we have established in 7 this budget are not the priorities, I believe, 8 of my constituents in this state. 9 I would also add that not restoring 10 fully the funding for libraries is a terrible 11 mistake. This is a very small amount of money 12 in terms of the total amount of dollars being 13 spent in this budget. 14 In this recession, go and visit any 15 of your libraries, assuming they're going to 16 be open, and go and visit them and see how 17 many people are out there looking for jobs, 18 Looking for employment through our public 19 library system. Those dollars should have 20 been restored. 21 Mr. President, I vote in the 22 negative. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Senator Leibell to be recorded in the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 negative. 2 The Secretary will continue to call 3 the roll. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Libous, to explain his vote. 7 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, 8 Mr. President. 9 I rise to vote no on this piece of 10 legislation. I want to talk about two things. 11 And one is the fact that 80 percent 12 of the tuition money is being swept -- or, as 13 I phrased before, being stolen. It's a trust 14 issue. I spoke on this floor the other night 15 about the Dedicated Highway Fund, how money 16 was being stolen from that fund. That's the 17 problem with New York State government. 18 The people in my district, in 19 Broome, Tioga and Chenango County, and 20 certainly people from all over the state -- it 21 doesn't matter if you're from New York City, 22 Long Island, upstate, the Hudson Valley -- 23 they've lost their faith in government because 24 of issues like this. Because money was

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 supposed to go for SUNY education, tuition 2 money that parents are paying, that students 3 are paying, that students borrow to pay. 4 And instead of going directly to 5 the institution that they're attending, the 6 government is taking the money, stealing the 7 money, and putting it into the General Fund. 8 That's wrong. 9 The other issue is, as Senator 10 Leibell mentioned, at Binghamton University we 11 have worked together with the community to 12 help create job opportunities for the people 13 of the Southern Tier. And we are also 14 educating those individuals who have lost 15 their jobs. You know, it's not just young 16 people that are 18, 19, and 20 years old that 17 go to SUNY schools. Adults go to SUNY 18 schools. At Binghamton University, many 19 people who lost their job go back to get 20 degrees in engineering, degrees in nursing, 21 other types of degrees, so that they can go 22 back into the workplace and find a job. 23 So, Mr. President, two issues here. 24 One is an issue of trust. People cannot trust

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 the government anymore because the government 2 continues to do something different than what 3 they tell the people they're going to do. And 4 the other issue is the issue of education at a 5 time when people need a job. 6 I vote no. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 8 Senator Libous to be recorded in the negative. 9 And I would remind members that we 10 do have a two-minute time limit in explaining 11 votes. 12 The Secretary will continue to call 13 the roll. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Little. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 16 Senator Little, to explain her vote. 17 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you, 18 Mr. President. 19 I have several reasons for voting 20 no on this budget. First of all, I represent 21 53 school districts, all of which are 22 struggling to keep their expenses contained. 23 Due to the stimulus money, they will at least 24 have a flat aid going into this year.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 However, they don't have a flat increase in 2 expenses. 3 So for all the talk about property 4 taxes and reduction in property taxes in 5 New York State, they will find it difficult to 6 keep their property taxes down. 7 And then the STAR rebate check has 8 been taken away. So in spite of that, there 9 still will be a difficult time keeping 10 property taxes down. They will go up in 11 New York State. 12 For all the talk of mandate relief, 13 there was no mandate relief in this budget for 14 our schools. The Teacher Mentoring Program 15 was not funded in the first budget that the 16 Governor put out. It was somewhat restored by 17 this budget, and yet the mandate has not 18 changed. Therefore, a huge expense to the 19 schools. 20 I also represent SUNY Plattsburgh. 21 And in this economy, we have told and asked 22 our students to pay more and get less. The 23 young people of New York will pay more, but 24 they will find it more difficult to get the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 courses that they need in the time span that 2 they need to graduate. 3 For those reasons and many others, 4 I vote no on this budget, and I encourage 5 everyone to vote no on this budget. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 7 Senator Little to be recorded in the negative. 8 The Secretary will continue to call 9 the roll. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator 11 Marcellino. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 13 Senator Marcellino, to explain his vote. 14 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you, 15 Mr. President. 16 I represent SUNY Old Westbury, and 17 Dr. Calvin Butts is the president of that 18 school. And he asked me at the beginning of 19 this process to do the best I could for SUNY 20 Old Westbury, which is a school that needs a 21 lot of help. 22 Now, unfortunately, they're not 23 going to get the help we thought they were 24 going to get. When we authorized that

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 increase in tuition, that was done to provide 2 the SUNY schools and the CUNY schools with the 3 money to provide extra sessions in the 4 different courses so that the kids could go 5 there who, with the increase in the youngsters 6 going there, will have courses to go to and we 7 wouldn't have do overcrowd the ones that are 8 already there. 9 Unfortunately, as my colleague 10 Senator Libous points out, the money was 11 stolen. And this is not a good thing. These 12 schools are going to be in distress. 13 The libraries did not get their 14 full restoration of funds. They're going to 15 be in distress. 16 The local schools are getting a 17 stimulus to fill holes in a budget created not 18 at their fault, but created by an economic 19 system nationwide that has impacted everybody. 20 Yet the stimulus money is a Band-Aid, it's an 21 artificial fix that is going to go away in two 22 years, and they're still going to be where 23 they are. 24 In some cases that stimulus money

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 is going to authorize them or require them to 2 do bigger programs than they already have, 3 increased programs, which means they have 4 increased spending and they're going to have a 5 problem when that money goes away. 6 Property taxes, as Senator Little 7 said, will go up as a result of this budget. 8 It's a mistake. I vote no, and I hope 9 everybody else will also. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 11 Senator Marcellino to be recorded in the 12 negative. 13 The Secretary will continue to call 14 the roll. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz. 16 SENATOR MAZIARZ: No. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator McDonald. 18 SENATOR McDONALD: No. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator 20 Monserrate. 21 SENATOR MONSERRATE: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator 23 Montgomery. 24 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Morahan. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator Morahan, to explain his vote. 4 SENATOR MORAHAN: Thank you, 5 Mr. President. 6 I rise to join my colleagues who 7 are voting against this budget for some very 8 basically foundation reasons in this budget. 9 Number one, I agree that when we 10 took the money from SUNY, we took it and we 11 stole it. Normally, it's the State University 12 of New York. Normally, the flow of money will 13 go from the state to support that public 14 education so many of our young people and now 15 older people can get an education at a 16 reasonable cost. But we reversed that flow. 17 Instead of the state giving its 18 support, it now has the students giving the 19 money to the state, in addition to what they 20 pay for their tuition. I think it was just 21 downright wrong. 22 Using the stimulus package on the 23 budget, moving it up to $132 billion, really 24 sets the stage for a crash, especially with

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 our school districts two years out. Nothing 2 has fundamentally changed in the way the 3 schools are going to be run or what they're 4 doing. And as Senator Marcellino points out, 5 it may even be greater responsibility, because 6 these stimulus packages will create newer and 7 bigger programs. And two years out, there 8 will be a sticker shock for our property 9 taxpayers that will be really hard to bear. 10 Yes, we did get some flat-line and 11 some modest increases in our local schools, 12 but that's not enough. We're setting them up 13 for a doomsday approach two years from now. 14 And on the libraries, what can we 15 say? What can we say about taking money out 16 of the libraries, one of the leading edges of 17 education in the State of New York. I think 18 we should have restored it fully, and we 19 didn't. 20 Therefore, I vote no, 21 Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Morahan to be recorded in the 24 negative.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 The Secretary will continue. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nozzolio. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Nozzolio, to explain his vote. 5 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, 6 Mr. President and my colleagues. I rise in 7 opposition of this proposal because it is an 8 unconscionable raid by government, by state 9 government, on our futures. 10 It's a tax on SUNY students. By 11 taking money that should go from their tuition 12 to fund the schools that SUNY students are 13 attending, rather it goes into the state 14 coffers and becomes nothing more than a tax. 15 But it even goes beyond that, 16 Mr. President. This is a robbing of our 17 futures. I was very fortunate to have 18 attended and graduated from a SUNY school, the 19 New York State School of Industrial and Labor 20 Relations at Cornell University, a flagship in 21 the SUNY system along with some of the other 22 statutory divisions at Cornell -- the College 23 of Agriculture and Life Science, the College 24 of Human Ecology.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Those schools are paid for in large 2 part by the tuition collected from their 3 students. And that tuition, because of this 4 proposal, will not be funding the operations 5 of SUNY but, rather, into the coffers of the 6 state, robbing futures. 7 Prior generations had the foresight 8 to support and develop the great SUNY system. 9 We have excellent colleges and universities in 10 our state because of the foresight of those 11 who preceded us here. But to ensure that the 12 system continues, this type of raid I believe 13 will certainly diminish our opportunities to 14 have a strong SUNY system. 15 Just a word about libraries. 16 Libraries are a great democratizing tool in 17 America. They are an opportunity for those 18 who can least afford it to have a window on 19 the world and to have the opportunities 20 presented to them that -- 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Senator Nozzolio, how do you vote? 23 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I respectfully 24 oppose this legislation and vote no.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Nozzolio to be recorded in the 3 negative. 4 The Secretary will continue. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Onorato. 6 SENATOR ONORATO: Aye. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator 8 Oppenheimer. 9 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Aye. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator Padavan, to explain his vote. 13 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, 14 Mr. President. 15 Earlier this year I had an 16 opportunity to meet with the presidents of a 17 number of the City University colleges in 18 Queens -- the president of Queens College, 19 your college, LaGuardia Community College, 20 CUNY Law School, and so on, along with the 21 vice chancellor representing the CUNY system 22 in its totality. 23 They outlined to us, those who were 24 there, their needs, what their expectations

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 were with regard to this budget, acknowledging 2 the tuition increases that would be imposed 3 upon students. And I can say, based on 4 everything we've heard from Senator LaValle 5 and others, that we're not providing those 6 needs. We are taking away. 7 They gave us data which showed that 8 in my district I have, on a per capita basis, 9 more students attending City University than 10 any Senator in the City of New York, all the 11 colleges. Who are these young people? They 12 are basically coming from middle-income, the 13 low-middle-income families. And they're going 14 to be hard-pressed to get the education we 15 want them to get. 16 Now, yesterday we had a discussion 17 with the chairman of the Education Committee 18 relevant to the City of New York and 19 specifically with regard to the Campaign for 20 Fiscal Equity agreements that have been 21 entered into by our state. Those agreements 22 are not being met. The stimulus money takes 23 care of part of it, but that's just for two 24 years. We don't know what will happen after

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 that. 2 But the CFE agreement and the funds 3 that were to be directed to the City of New 4 York for educational purposes are simply not 5 there. The result will be a failure to keep 6 the promise that we made last year of small 7 class size, of all the services needed to keep 8 that system moving in the right direction. 9 For those reasons and others that 10 have been expressed here, I vote no. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator Padavan to be recorded in the 13 negative. 14 The Secretary will continue. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Parker. 16 SENATOR PARKER: Aye. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Perkins. 18 SENATOR PERKINS: Me too. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator 20 Ranzenhofer. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Senator Ranzenhofer, to explain his vote. 23 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Mr. 24 President, thank you.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Before I begin my explanation, I 2 just find it very interesting, having listened 3 to a number of speakers explaining their no 4 votes and giving the justification, and having 5 not heard one single speaker speak in 6 explanation of their vote -- not give an 7 explanation, not give a justification. And 8 the only thing I can take away from that is 9 that this is such a bad vote that there really 10 is nothing to explain. It's a horrible vote. 11 Now, I'm a graduate of two SUNY 12 institutions, Albany and Buffalo. And I have 13 the University of Buffalo in my district, and 14 they have a very prominent program that 15 they're trying to develop, U.B. 2020. And 16 this kind of what I would call a 17 bait-and-switch, where you tell the university 18 that if you raise your tuition, you can do it 19 to enhance your programs, to try to get your 20 students to graduate in four years as opposed 21 to five years, so it doesn't cost the student 22 as much money, doesn't cost the family that 23 much money, that's simply unconscionable. 24 What this is going to do is to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 prolong someone's education. And for 2 middle-class families that are struggling with 3 respect to the universities, this is just 4 going to kill them. 5 One further thing I want to mention 6 with respect to what Senator Little said. 7 There is no STAR relief. Property taxes are 8 going to go up. And I do want to quote the 9 Comptroller, because the Comptroller did say, 10 and I quote: "The budget is balanced by the 11 overreliance on nonrecurring federal stimulus 12 funds and new tax revenues projected to 13 materialize at a time of declining tax 14 receipts." 15 In other words, you're balancing 16 this budget on money that's not going to be 17 there in a couple of years, and you're 18 expecting money that you're never going to 19 receive. 20 I vote no. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Senator Ranzenhofer to be recorded in the 23 negative. 24 The Secretary will continue to call

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 the roll slowly. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Robach. 3 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes, 4 Mr. President, very quickly. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Robach, to explain his vote. 7 SENATOR ROBACH: I feel obligated 8 to vote no for this bill, both as the chair of 9 the SUNY Caucus and also as an alumni of 10 Brockport State University, along with our 11 colleagues here Senator Thompson, Senator 12 Griffo. And so I think I know firsthand, as 13 many of us do, how important access to higher 14 education is. 15 The actions that we're taking 16 today, as many of my colleagues pointed out, 17 really are going to result in three things -- 18 less faculty, less access at a time when we 19 know tens of thousands of students are going 20 to be turned away from our flagship State 21 University system that was put in place to 22 make sure everyone could access higher 23 education, at a time where we all know in 24 today's economy a college degree is like a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 high school degree was when I was growing up. 2 Bad stuff. 3 And lastly I point out, and I think 4 Betty Little touched on this, when we do this, 5 for those who are lucky enough to get in, 6 what's going to happen is now instead of 7 finishing your coursework in four years at the 8 great university we've built up, many students 9 are going to have to stay longer to get the 10 coursework they need. 11 So I know we're in a tough budget 12 time, but this really is not the right 13 direction. 14 And I'll just end with this; I know 15 I'm probably at the end of my time, even 16 though Senator Lanza said I could have his two 17 minutes. 18 I really think that if we would 19 have went to conference committees and used 20 the process that we had used for the last 21 several years, I really think we would have 22 thought about this, talked about it a little 23 bit more, and I think we would have gotten to 24 a different place.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 So for those reasons, I am going to 2 going to vote in the negative, Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Robach to be recorded in the negative. 5 The Secretary will continue. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 8 Senator Saland, to explain his vote. 9 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 10 Mr. President. 11 Mr. President, two minutes will not 12 permit me to recite all the reasons why I'm 13 not going to support this bill. 14 I have said to any number of people 15 that budgets hide a multitude of sins. This 16 budget sins grievously, grievously and 17 horridly. The only thing that's more sinfully 18 grievous and horrid is the process that has 19 brought us here, the three-men-in-a-room 20 process. The lack of openness, the lack of 21 transparency, the lack of conference 22 committees. 23 I too am a SUNY graduate. I have 24 two children who have graduated from SUNY

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 schools. It is the height of hypocrisy to 2 speak of the importance of education and 3 balance the budget on the backs of those 4 students and their families, the absolute 5 height of hypocrisy. Emphasize the importance 6 of education, and then say we are going to use 7 your bodies to balance our budget. That 8 reeks, absolutely reeks with a stench that 9 nobody should be able to stomach. 10 The education portion of the 11 budget. What we have done, with a heavy 12 reliance on over $2 billion of federal money, 13 is managed to flat-line the schools in our 14 districts. Now, for that there is some degree 15 of relief, because they were expecting even 16 worse based on the Governor's runs. 17 The reality, however, is that there 18 are going to be enormous tax increases, 19 despite districts' efforts to contain their 20 costs. There's going to be layoffs or firings 21 that we have not seen in this state within any 22 of our collective memories. 23 This is a bad budget bill in the 24 context of a horrible budget. And to have

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 between $10 and $11 billion in nonstimulus 2 spending here, in addition to the $7 billion 3 which we discussed previously, and not to be 4 able to find enough money to fund libraries at 5 their level from last year, is truly beyond 6 belief. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 8 Senator Saland, how do you vote? 9 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, I 10 vote in the negative. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator Saland to be recorded in the negative. 13 The Secretary will continue. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sampson. 15 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Savino. 17 SENATOR SAVINO: Yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator 19 Schneiderman. 20 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Serrano. 22 SENATOR SERRANO: Yes. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 24 SENATOR SEWARD: Mr. President.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Seward, to explain his vote. 3 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, this is my 4 23rd year as a member of this body and also my 5 23rd year as a member of the Higher Education 6 Committee. And I have been very proud of this 7 Senate over the years for standing up for 8 higher education, both SUNY and CUNY, for that 9 matter. 10 This budget proposal before us is a 11 big step backwards. It's a very disastrous 12 proposal. 13 As one who has a number of SUNY 14 campuses in my district, I know firsthand the 15 SUNY campuses are part of the economic engine 16 of our communities that host campuses but also 17 economic engines for the whole state. Because 18 our campuses train and retrain a workforce so 19 vitally important to the businesses of our 20 state. 21 Certainly anyone who has a campus 22 in their district knows full well the 23 benefits. Mr. President, you have a SUNY 24 campus, SUNY Morrisville. Senator Aubertine

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 has SUNY Oswego. Any member that has a campus 2 knows what I'm talking about. 3 And the fact that this proposal 4 raids the tuition increase money, 80 percent 5 of it, to go into a black hole of the General 6 Fund breaks faith with the students, the 7 parents, and the campuses throughout New York 8 State -- at a very time when enrollment and 9 demand for a SUNY education is up. The same 10 can be said for CUNY as well, I'm sure. 11 The same for libraries. We're 12 shortchanging our libraries at the very same 13 time when the demand for their services is way 14 up. People who are out of work can go in 15 there and scan the Internet and find a new job 16 or help with their resumes, all of those 17 things. Demand for library services are up. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator Seward, how do you vote? 20 SENATOR SEWARD: I vote no, 21 because I feel that in a $132 billion budget, 22 up -- spending up that high, we cannot find a 23 few more dollars for our libraries and to 24 return that tuition money to our campuses.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Seward to be recorded in the negative. 3 The Secretary will continue. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos, 5 no. 6 Senator Smith, aye. 7 Senator Squadron. 8 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator 10 Stachowski. 11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Stavisky, to explain her vote. 15 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes, I 16 couldn't sit quietly and listen to the 17 inaccuracies that I've heard this morning, 18 words like "stolen," words like "hypocrisy." 19 Let me remind you, those of you who 20 were here in 1998 and in the year 2000, you 21 voted to increase tuition at SUNY and CUNY, 22 and that money went into the General Fund. It 23 went into the General Fund. It was never 24 returned to the campuses.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Now we are saying we return 2 20 percent to the campuses of the increase in 3 tuition. 4 Nobody is claiming this is a good 5 budget. But it is a budget caused not by 6 anything we have done, but by circumstances. 7 And we are trying to deal as best we can with 8 the circumstances. But please, this is not 9 money that is being stolen. It was never, 10 ever, ever given to the campuses. And in 11 fact, in 2003, this budget passed unanimously. 12 I wish to be recorded in the 13 affirmative. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Senator Stavisky to be recorded in the 16 affirmative. 17 The Secretary will continue. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator 19 Stewart-Cousins. 20 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Thompson. 22 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Valesky. 24 SENATOR VALESKY: Aye.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator Volker, to explain his vote. 4 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, I 5 feel obligated to say something. I'm a 6 graduate of a private college, Canisius 7 College, and SUNY Law School. I have three 8 professors in my family. My son Marty is a 9 professor of psychology at SUNY Buffalo, and 10 his wife Gloria Lee is a professor of 11 psychology. And my son Mark is a professor of 12 music at Colgate. 13 The reason I mention that is that 14 every one of those schools, obviously, has 15 been hit. You know, we've mentioned SUNY, but 16 we forgot about Bundy Aid. Bundy Aid has been 17 hit too. Every higher education institution 18 in this state has been hit. 19 In fact, I believe, in all the 20 years I've been here, that this is the worst 21 higher education budget that I can ever 22 remember. That's a shame. Because you know, 23 all this talk about the aid from Washington, 24 as much as it's probably a bad idea to use it,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 we could have used it to avoid some of the 2 shock that the schools are going to find out 3 when they find out what they're really 4 getting. 5 The school that I represent, 6 Geneseo, was hoping and praying that they 7 would get some additional money. They're not 8 going to get that. And the result is that 9 they're not going to be able to have the kind 10 of student body that they wanted to have, 11 because they're just not going to be able to 12 have as many students as they have in the 13 past. And Geneseo is one of the most popular 14 school in the United States of America. 15 So I vote no. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator Volker to be recorded in the negative. 18 The Secretary will continue. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Winner. 20 SENATOR WINNER: No. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Young. 22 SENATOR YOUNG: To explain my 23 vote. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Young, to explain her vote. 2 SENATOR YOUNG: I'd like to 3 remind my colleague Senator Stavisky that in 4 '98 and 2000 that tuition was raised, but at 5 the same time there were huge increases of 6 state support to the SUNY system. That is not 7 true this year. Not only was tuition raised 8 and taken away, but $279 million has been 9 taken away from the SUNY system. 10 New York State now has the dubious 11 distinction of being the only state in the 12 country that taxes college tuition. 13 And I took part in two rallies, one 14 at SUNY Alfred and one at SUNY Fredonia. And 15 I have to tell you, the students are angry. 16 They are angry about what Albany has done to 17 them. Their parents have scrimped and saved 18 for years so that they could afford the dream 19 of a college education. They've taken out 20 college loans that they have to pay interest 21 on to pay for their tuition. 22 And it's not just the students who 23 are angry, it's the faculty and staff, it's 24 the parents, and it's the alumni. And at

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 those rallies, the rallying cry was "Save 2 SUNY." "Save SUNY." 3 And it wasn't just a rallying cry, 4 it was a plea to lawmakers, Senators, saying 5 to them: Don't erode the quality of our 6 education. Don't cut SUNY. Don't take away 7 our college tuition, especially in these tough 8 economic times, because it's harder now more 9 than ever to be able to afford a college 10 education. 11 I think what's happened with this 12 bill and in this chamber is shameful, and I 13 vote no. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Senator Young to be recorded in the negative. 16 And the Secretary will announce the 17 results. 18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 32. Nays, 19 30. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 21 bill is passed. 22 Senator Klein. 23 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 24 can we now go to Calendar 133.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 2 Secretary will proceed with the controversial 3 reading of Calendar Number 133. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 133, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print 6 Number 154C, an act making appropriations for 7 the support of government: Health and Mental 8 Hygiene Budget. 9 SENATOR VOLKER: Explanation. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 11 Senator Kruger, an explanation has been 12 requested by Senator Volker. 13 SENATOR KRUGER: Thank you, 14 Mr. President. The explanation will be given 15 by our Health chair, Senator Duane. Thank 16 you. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 18 Senator Duane, to explain Calendar Number 133. 19 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, 20 Mr. President. 21 I just want to preface my -- 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator DeFrancisco, why do you rise? 24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I think

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Duane started to speak, but it's 2 difficult to hear anything. So I would 3 appreciate if he could speak up a bit, please. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 5 Senator Duane, we'd ask you to project. 6 SENATOR DUANE: Well, it's been a 7 long-time goal of mine to be the chair of the 8 Senate Health Committee. And New York is a 9 very diverse state with diverse healthcare 10 needs. And as I think most of my colleagues 11 know, every issue in healthcare is complex, 12 and some issues can actually mean life and 13 death. 14 Now, New Yorkers demand and deserve 15 high-quality, affordable, intelligently 16 provided healthcare, and they demand that our 17 healthcare policies follow that demand for 18 high quality, affordability, and really 19 intelligent choices. 20 Now, it's a tough challenge no 21 matter what the financial situation is, but 22 this year perhaps even -- well, not perhaps, 23 definitely more challenging. And that's the 24 challenge that I face this year. It was a lot

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 of work -- tough work, frankly -- but even 2 tougher choices as we came up with the budget, 3 the health budget that we have before us 4 today. 5 You know, in a perfect world 6 everyone would be happy. But I guess someone 7 needed to -- and believe me, I didn't want to 8 be this person, but I guess it was my job. 9 Because this year, in the greatest economic 10 recession since the Great Depression, 11 honestly, this health budget is not going to 12 make everyone happy. But it will provide 13 access to quality healthcare for New Yorkers, 14 And I think that that met a challenge this 15 fiscal year. 16 Now, this year especially, and with 17 these conditions as chair, I knew that 18 New Yorkers were asking for a responsible 19 budget and I think also a caring budget, 20 especially for those who are most vulnerable. 21 I think maybe I'll begin with some 22 of the hospital issues, beginning with the 23 reallocation of the Graduate Medical Education 24 funds, which was frankly contentious.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 So what we did was reallocated at 2 $141.3 million from the current GME/PEP pool, 3 which is the Professional Education Pool, to 4 other uses -- and this isn't really the 5 technical term, but I think it's easy to 6 understand -- by Medicaiding that money. We 7 drew down federal funds, and we doubled the 8 amount of the pool. 9 Now, the Executive, their idea was 10 to reallocate the money from the Graduate 11 Medical Education and use it for care for the 12 uninsured. There was a lot of discussion 13 around that. And what happened was in order 14 to deal with some of the very legitimate 15 issues that were raised, we created a number 16 of pools to meet specific needs during this 17 changing healthcare policy for the state. But 18 the goal is still that the bulk of the money 19 will be used to care for the uninsured. 20 Now, the academic medical centers 21 are going to receive a pool of $24.5 million 22 going forward. Safety net hospitals are going 23 to receive a pool of $25 million. And high 24 Medicaid hospitals received a pool of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 $24.2 million. And rural and nonteaching 2 hospitals received an additional pool of 3 $16 million. 4 On the outpatient side for 5 hospitals, frankly my preference would have 6 been to accelerate the enhanced reimbursement 7 for outpatient care. So I thought that should 8 begin as soon as possible. I didn't think it 9 should be linked to inpatient reform. But in 10 the end, implementation was delayed a little 11 bit to December 1, 2009. 12 On the inpatient side, ultimately 13 what we decided to do was to begin the 14 modified inpatient reimbursement December 1, 15 2009, as well. 16 Let's see. I'm just going to 17 actually -- I think people might have some 18 questions about what happened with the GME/PEP 19 pool conversion, so I'm just going to sort of 20 go through that specifically for people. The 21 GME/PEP pool is being moved into the indigent 22 care pool. Now, the PEP pool had been 23 distributing $283 million per year. And by 24 moving it into the Indigent Care Pool, we're

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 able to draw down the disproportionate share 2 funding -- which I'm going to refer to as DSH 3 funding going forward -- and that will 4 generate savings to the state of $141 million. 5 Now, for 2009 that $283 million is 6 increased by shifting an additional 7 $24.5 million to a never-before-allocated PEP 8 pool, which is state-only dollars, not with a 9 DSH match. So that creates a total new pool 10 of $306 million. 11 Now, for 2009, those monies will be 12 distributed based on the current GME 13 distribution formula. Now, starting in 2010, 14 that $24.5 million becomes the new -- and 15 again, state-funded-only -- academic medical 16 center pool. It's replaced in the GME/PEP 17 pool by $27 million, which is being shifted 18 out of the current $847 million Indigent Care 19 Pool. So that will create a pool of 20 $310 million. 21 Now, starting in January of 2010, 22 all those funds are going to be distributed 23 based on units of service to the uninsured, 24 and they'll be paid at the Medicaid rate.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Now, the two pools will draw off 2 the top -- there will be two new pools that 3 will draw off the top of the new indigent care 4 pool -- $16 million to the non-New York 5 nonteaching hospitals, and $25 million to the 6 high-Medicaid-volume nonmajor public teaching 7 hospitals. The rest of the money, 8 $269 million, will be allocated based on a 9 regional distribution method based on the 10 provision of care to the uninsured, which was 11 an important goal. 12 Now, in addition to the Indigent 13 Care Pool, two additional pools were 14 established that are outside the GME/PEP pool. 15 And I referenced this before, but just to go 16 through it again, these are stand-alone pots 17 of money that go on -- you know, I'd say in 18 perpetuity, but who knows. But it's 19 envisioned that they'll go on year after year. 20 Now, again, $24.5 million is going 21 to go to the six academic medical centers -- 22 and again, that's state money only, not DSH -- 23 and $24.2 million to high-Medicaid-volume 24 hospitals to cover the non-GRT losses, gross

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 receipts tax losses, they are incurring due to 2 the rate reform. And that pool is really to 3 shore up the safety net hospitals. It's not 4 for charity care. 5 Now, the list of high-Medicaid- 6 volume hospitals in that pool is almost 7 exactly the same as the $25 million pool 8 within the new Indigent Care Pool that I spoke 9 about before. 10 And then I just want to say also 11 there will be an additional $75 million in 12 transition funding, and that's going to be 13 distributed to hospitals that experience a 14 large shift in revenue as a result of the 15 inpatient rate reforms which are going to be 16 starting December 1, 2009. 17 That's on the hospital side. We're 18 also going to invest $63 million in the 19 development and enhancement of primary 20 healthcare centers. And we're also creating 21 even another pool of new funding for our 22 primary healthcare centers. 23 Now, on nursing homes, what we were 24 trying to do was to accomplish some reform

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 while trying to limit the disturbances within 2 the nursing-home sector. So we wanted to 3 protect middle-class and frankly low-income 4 elderly patients and their families by trying 5 to guarantee quality-care nursing homes but 6 also implementing reforms which would reduce 7 costs and I'd say achieve efficiencies in 8 savings. 9 So this budget adopts a new 10 reimbursement that for the first time what I 11 hope will do will drive efficiency while, 12 again, providing quality and workforce 13 development. 14 There's approximately approximate 15 $224, $225 million in Medicaid savings to 16 nursing homes, which accounts for about a 17 43 percent restoration of the proposed cuts 18 put on the table by the Executive. One of the 19 most important reforms is regional pricing. 20 And that should take into account local costs 21 when we reimburse the homes. 22 Now, to give some extra time to 23 adapt to those reforms, we delayed the 24 implementation of the reforms and we're going

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 continue to work with the industry. And the 2 plan is to delay it for a year. 3 Now, when the reforms go into 4 effect, we want to make sure that unionized 5 and high-wage workers won't -- this isn't 6 really the right term, but they won't be 7 discriminated against. So the benefits paid 8 to those front-line-care workers in nursing 9 homes will be factored into the new 10 reimbursement methodology so those that pay 11 fair wages, those that provide quality work 12 won't be punished for doing that. 13 Now, on the home care side, we 14 fought against the 2 percent across-the-board 15 Medicaid rate reduction, and we restored about 16 $132, $133 million for home care that the -- a 17 cut that the Executive had put in the budget. 18 You know, we rejected, the Senate, 19 a new reimbursement system that probably would 20 have reduced the ability of families to 21 continue their ability to keep family members 22 in the home and they can continue to receive 23 medical care at home. And we also rejected a 24 proposal that would have reduced the supply of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 available help for home care patients. And I 2 could get into some detail. Some of you 3 probably became very familiar with -- I think 4 they're acronyms when they're letters 5 together -- CHAs and LHCSAs. But I won't 6 unless you want me to. 7 So we're creating a working group 8 to examine how to reform that part of the home 9 care industry. And also, at the same time we 10 wanted to make sure that we kept quality in 11 the provision of services to those receiving 12 home care services, and also to work to make 13 sure that the wages and benefits of home care 14 workers -- and I think we'd ultimately like to 15 see that increase, because after all they are 16 taking care of those most vulnerable and in 17 most cases people who we love the most. 18 So let's see. We did reduce the 19 impact of the gross receipts tax. We made it 20 0.35 instead of 0.7 percent. 21 Let's see. We did also reject 22 $229 million in taxes on health insurers, 23 although we did support a $107 million tax on 24 for-profit health insurers. So it was a way,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 really, to try to raise revenue from the sort 2 of more well-heeled for-profit HMOs and 3 insurers while trying to protect the nonprofit 4 insurers. 5 And we're going to continue to work 6 with the Attorney General to make sure that 7 not only is there no cheating of New Yorkers, 8 but also to make sure that we have data which 9 is not used to manipulate payments for 10 out-of-network care in a bad way but actually 11 to help people who need care from providers 12 outside the network. 13 We -- and this is we, I -- we 14 refused to decrease pharmacy reimbursement for 15 Medicaid. The pharmacists, the local 16 pharmacists really did make very compelling 17 argument that they should not have their 18 reimbursement decreased, and I agreed and we 19 agreed. 20 Now, that's only the second time in 21 14 years that pharmacies haven't been cut. So 22 I think we really did help protect our 23 mom-and-pop pharmacies who really serve a lot 24 of our citizens who use Medicaid to get their

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 pharmaceuticals. 2 Maybe I'll just recap a couple of 3 things for people. Basically, we made a 62, 4 maybe a little more percent restoration of the 5 Governor's proposed cuts to hospitals. And 6 the reform that I spoke about earlier, again, 7 is going to start December 1, 2009. We cut 8 the gross receipts tax in half. 9 We put $16 million in new funding 10 for suburban, outer borough, and upstate 11 hospitals, which should reduce the impact by 12 about 40 percent, if not more. We provided 13 $30 million in additional DSH funding -- I may 14 not have mentioned this before -- to HHC to 15 cover some of their losses in the reform. And 16 we actually have lifted the cap as well, so 17 they should be able to draw down more money. 18 And we also put in over $100 million in DSH 19 funding for SUNY hospitals and other public 20 and quasi-public hospitals around the state. 21 The new D&TC Indigent Care Pool is 22 increased to $126 million, and we put 23 $16 million in new Senate funding targeting 24 community clinics.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 The $75 million for hospitals -- 2 actually, I think I said before for one year, 3 but in fact that $75 million is over two-year 4 period. And then there's ongoing funding for 5 academic medical centers and for safety net 6 hospitals. Of course the HEAL funding that's 7 presently there will also remain available for 8 capital and operating support for transitions. 9 On the nursing home -- for those of 10 you perhaps love facts and figures even more 11 than I do, if that's possible, on the nursing 12 home side we made a 43 percent restoration of 13 the Governor's proposed cuts. Of the 14 $335.5 million in savings originally on the 15 table by the Executive, we reduced that to 16 $224 million. So that's $111 million 17 restored. 18 And working with the industry, 19 we've put off a little bit the implementation 20 of the reimbursement reforms. And we also 21 made sure that we kept the Fair Wage Pool so 22 that quality care provided by quality workers 23 to our loved ones in nursing homes, we're 24 going to keep that investment.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Home care, I just did that, so 2 hopefully you all remember that. And 3 pharmacy, I already just did that, so 4 hopefully you all remember what I said about 5 that so I don't have to repeat all of that. 6 There's probably some more details 7 that I could give to you, but maybe I'll just 8 perhaps wait to see if you have specific 9 questions about other parts of the healthcare 10 budget. 11 And thank you, Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 13 you, Senator Duane. 14 Senator Hannon. 15 SENATOR HANNON: Yes, 16 Mr. President. On the bill. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 18 Senator Hannon, on the bill. 19 SENATOR HANNON: I appreciate 20 Senator Duane reading the bill memo. And that 21 alone should be a good reason to vote against 22 this. The incredible manipulation of the 23 monies that hospitals currently expend to take 24 care of patients has never been seen before in

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 the history of our financing of the healthcare 2 system. 3 There is a need to reform 4 healthcare in New York. None of it is done 5 this year. There is a need to make a 6 financial system that is predictable, that is 7 assured, that can be measured, that is 8 transport, that will result in quality care, 9 give incentives for quality care and 10 disincentives for bad care. This is not that 11 bill. 12 The first error that occurred is 13 the money that came to the Medicaid system has 14 been diverted to other purposes. For years, 15 we've said we have to increase what is known 16 as FMAP. That's the federal monies that come 17 from Medicaid. We are at the lowest level of 18 any state. The stimulus bill moved it up from 19 50 percent, the current level, to 61 percent 20 for 27 months. Permanent? No. 27 months. 21 But according to Governor 22 Paterson's own numbers, the amount of money 23 received would be $1.9 billion for the fiscal 24 year just ended March 31, 2009, it would be

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 $5 billion for the fiscal year for which this 2 budget would affect, and it would be 3 $4.6 billion for the subsequent fiscal year. 4 That's an incredible amount of 5 money. There did not need to be any cuts 6 whatsoever. Should it have been redirected to 7 a transition to a better system? Yes. Should 8 it have been put into these bills the way it 9 has been? No. Why not? Because, as Senator 10 Duane has reflected, there is a creation of 11 pools out there that is just incredible. We 12 have more pools than any type of resort would 13 ever want. 14 You go to page 90 of the language 15 bill -- it's not the bill that's in front of 16 us, because the appropriation bill is the one 17 in front of us, but it's the one that lays out 18 the pools that the money is appropriated 19 for -- and we find just all these new pools 20 that we've never had before. 21 And while it may be that some of 22 these pools, as Senator Duane claims, are for 23 rural, I don't find that in the bill. I don't 24 find that these numbers are all set forth. We

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 have no list here as to where those hospital 2 monies would go. We're not assured. 3 And why would I get concerned about 4 that? Because I go back to another provision 5 dealing with what is the claimed reform of 6 moving from inpatient to outpatient, to the 7 ambulatory patient group system which we began 8 last year and is supposedly working -- but I 9 don't know how it's working when I find 10 that -- this is new language added -- "if the 11 commissioner determines that the use of the 12 APG method is not or is not yet appropriate or 13 practical for specified services, the 14 commissioner may utilize existing payment 15 methodologies for such services," da-da-da-da. 16 In other words, do whatever you want. 17 There's other language in here that 18 says if the commissioner deems we may not get 19 enough money, he can do whatever he wants. 20 This is not a system. And why am I 21 saying this? Because it can get boring, it 22 can get esoteric. But think. We have to 23 change the system. And in order to change it 24 for the almost 300 hospitals we have in this

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 state, we have to do it in a predictable 2 manner. They operate 24 hours a day, seven 3 days a week. They have to have money coming 4 in. They have to go out and hire people. 5 They have to recruit physicians, nurses, nurse 6 practitioners, orderlies, the whole list. 7 They have to know how much money they can 8 predict. 9 You know, just because a budget is 10 late doesn't mean they can stop services. 11 Just because we say we're going to go into 12 preventive care and outpatient services 13 doesn't mean they can stop the inpatient care. 14 People are still going to need operations. 15 People are still going to have car accidents 16 and need to be repaired in emergency rooms. 17 That all has to go on. 18 The creation of these pools means 19 they don't know what's going to happen. Two 20 hundred sixty-nine million dollars in one 21 pool, 25, 16, 25, 24. That's just the new 22 ones that came out of this budget as they 23 tried to patch every problem they thought they 24 had. The Governor had started out with his

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 own two pools, a $75 million and a 2 $25 million. 3 This is not a system. People can't 4 do reform if they don't know what's going to 5 be taking place. You start to take a look at 6 the numbers that the Hospital Association 7 provides, and you say they have taken into 8 account all of this appropriation. And we 9 still find, for Senator LaValle, the hospitals 10 in his district lose $1.75 million. Senator 11 Flanagan, who has SUNY Stony Brook, a medical 12 center of the state, $4.7 million. 13 Now, you say, well, it's tough 14 times. Go back to the proposition. Where did 15 the $5 billion go that came in from the 16 increased FMAP? Why was it diverted? Where 17 is it accounted for? You will look in every 18 one of these bills, you will look on the 19 Department of Budget's website, you'll look on 20 the Governor's website, the only thing you'll 21 find are the Governor's press releases, which 22 gives me the numbers, but it's not set forth 23 here. Now, someday we'll have to account for 24 it for the federal government, but it's not

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 set forth. 2 There are other reasons contained 3 in these bills that I have a major problem 4 with. While Senator Duane said they cut the 5 gross receipts tax, this -- what is that? 6 That means every hospital, every home care 7 agency, on the total amount of money that 8 comes into their agency, is paying a tax. 9 Thanks for cutting it. But you know what? 10 This is the first permanent imposition of a 11 gross receipts tax we've ever seen. Every 12 time before, it's always been temporary and it 13 expired, and it didn't get automatically 14 renewed. 15 That's not reform. When you have 16 to have this much money to raise revenue and 17 you didn't have it before, I don't think that 18 the reform. 19 Granted, some of the things on home 20 healthcare have been relieved. They still 21 have to pay the gross receipts tax. We had 22 sent them into chaos. How are they going to 23 manage all the people? They didn't know. 24 Finally, when this budget came out on two

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 minutes of 1:00 on Saturday night, they could 2 find out that they didn't have to change their 3 entire staffing patterns. But what about 4 going forward in the future? It's not sure. 5 It's not fixed. 6 Nursing homes. There's a mention 7 in the bill about regional pricing. But you 8 say to yourself, well, what happened to our 9 changing the system for the nursing homes that 10 we passed three years ago and two years ago 11 and last year? Didn't nursing homes go out 12 and borrow so they could improve their 13 facilities and have that quality that we're 14 promised in the future? Are they not doing 15 that? 16 What are they going to do with that 17 borrowing now that this budget cuts basically 18 in half the amount of money that they would 19 have received from the prior rebasing, 20 bringing a reform that was way overdue? A 21 promise is not something you can deliver 22 quality care about. 23 I think the basic problem is that 24 while we have seen major changes, it has not

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 been done in a systematic way. It's not been 2 done in a studied way. You can move money 3 from the Graduate Medical Education Pool, a 4 move that there is little reason advanced for. 5 You can move it into other federal formulas 6 that will drive some more money, but that's 7 only temporary at best. And neither of those 8 moves allow you to take a system that is in 9 vital need of reform and actually accomplish 10 that. 11 For those reasons -- and we will be 12 advancing some amendments when we get to the 13 language bill -- I will be voting against this 14 measure. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 16 you, Senator Hannon. 17 Senator Robach. 18 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes, through 19 you, Mr. President, would Senator Duane yield 20 for a couple of questions? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Senator Duane, will you yield? 23 SENATOR DUANE: Yes, 24 Mr. President.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Duane yields. 3 SENATOR ROBACH: Thank you for 4 that explanation. I know this is a big 5 appropriation, a big bill. I actually had 6 just a couple of areas that I'm parochially 7 concerned with. 8 How much money was swept or 9 rediverted from the Graduate Medical Education 10 Pool in total, do you know? 11 SENATOR DUANE: I'm not sure -- 12 through you, Mr. President, in response, I'm 13 not sure I would characterize what we did with 14 the graduate medical education funds in the 15 same way as my colleague has. So without -- 16 well, I would say a more objective 17 characterization of it, although people of 18 course are entitled to use whatever words, and 19 I'm assuming they will. So what happened -- 20 SENATOR HANNON: I cannot hear, 21 and this is a quiet chamber. So maybe you can 22 turn the amplification up. 23 SENATOR DUANE: I was saying I 24 don't really agree with my colleague's

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 characterization of what action we took with 2 the Graduate Medical Education Pool. I think 3 the characterization that I made before, which 4 I'm going to do again, is more objective. But 5 everyone is entitled to characterize whatever 6 happened in whatever way they want to, but I 7 don't really accept that particular 8 characterization. 9 So the GME/PEP pool, Graduate 10 Medical Education/Professional Education Pool, 11 is being moved into the Indigent Care Pool. 12 The PEP pool had been distributing 13 $283 million per year. By moving it into the 14 Indigent Care Pool, we're able to draw down 15 DSH funding -- remember disproportionate 16 share, disproportionate share -- which will 17 generate net savings to the state of 18 $141 million. 19 Now, for 2009 the $283 million is 20 increased by pools. And I just -- we've 21 always had pools in this state. We eliminated 22 some pools, we've made new pools, all in an 23 effort to help hospitals with transitioning 24 into our desire to bring primary and

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 preventive healthcare to as many people as 2 possible. 3 In 2009, the $283 million is going 4 to be increased by shifting an additional 5 $24.5 million in new PEP money, which is going 6 to come from the state only. So it's 7 state-only dollars; it's not matched. So 8 there's no DSH match. And that's going to go 9 into this pool. So now the total new pool 10 will be $306 million. And for 2009, for the 11 rest of 2009, these monies are going to be 12 distributed based on the current GME 13 distribution formula. All right? 14 Starting in 2010, that 15 $24.5 million is going to become the new, 16 again, state-only money for the academic 17 medical centers, and that's going to go 18 forward. It's being replaced in the Graduate 19 Medical Education/Professional Education Pool 20 by $27 million, which is going to be shifted 21 out of the current $847 million, which was in 22 the Indigent Care Pool. So $27 million is 23 going to be taken out of the $847 million, 24 which is a lot of money, and that's going to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 create a pool of $310 million. And that, 2 again, will start in 2010. 3 We're going to use $16 million for 4 non-New York City, non-teaching hospitals, and 5 $25 million to high-Medicaid-volume -- they 6 have a lot of Medicaid-using patients or 7 they're not even -- hopefully they're not just 8 going to be patients, they'll be actually 9 getting primary care -- for the non-major 10 public teaching hospitals. 11 Then the rest of that money, the 12 $269 million, is going to be allocated based 13 on a regional distribution method. And that 14 will be based on the provision of care to the 15 uninsured. Which again, care for the 16 uninsured, primary care, so to reduce 17 emergency room visits and inpatient care. 18 That's what a major component of our reform 19 is, to make sure that they get care, but not 20 in emergency rooms and not because they have 21 to be inpatient. 22 SENATOR ROBACH: I'm sorry for my 23 term "sweeping." 24 Through you, Mr. President, if

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Duane would continue to yield. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator Duane, do you continue to yield? 4 SENATOR DUANE: Yes, 5 Mr. President. 6 SENATOR ROBACH: My first 7 question. Are you trying to filibuster me, 8 Tom? 9 On a serious note, for 10 simple-minded people -- and I sort of know 11 part of the answer. In the aggregate -- I 12 know what the University of Rochester is get 13 for this. But for, you know, Buffalo, 14 Syracuse, Albany Med, what will be the 15 aggregate money spent, in total, on graduate 16 medical education this year as opposed to last 17 year? 18 And I'm really being serious. I 19 appreciate your time and answer. I didn't 20 really -- that didn't answer my question for 21 me, because I can't do that all in my head. 22 I'm not from -- I'm not that smart, I guess. 23 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 24 Mr. President. And I just want to clarify.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 The reason that I describe or talk about what 2 we're doing with reform with the healthcare 3 system is because I -- there are many here who 4 understand it just on the face of it, but I 5 think there are also many of my colleagues on 6 both sides of the aisle -- and I may be wrong 7 about this, and maybe it's my experience 8 teaching civics or something, but I find it's 9 easier to go through it in sort of an orderly 10 fashion. And frankly, it's easier for me to 11 understand it that way. So that's -- I do it 12 the way I do it. 13 So I don't -- I can't nor do I 14 think it's helpful to try to give a precise 15 answer to that question, because the use of 16 the GME/PEP pools and the other pools that are 17 supposed to help with transition both for 18 academic hospitals and the -- the academic 19 hospitals that aren't like strong, which won't 20 be receiving one of the pools, but they'll get 21 access to the other pools. It's actually, I 22 think, better to describe what is available to 23 institutions to help ease the transition. And 24 again, to get care to people in the most

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 efficient way, which means access to primary 2 care, preventive care, so that they don't 3 become emergency room visitors and 4 inpatient -- so emergency rooms are for 5 emergencies, and inpatient is for inpatient 6 care, but we're trying to avoid inpatient 7 care. 8 SENATOR ROBACH: Through you, 9 Mr. President, if Senator Duane would continue 10 to yield. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator Duane, do you continue to yield? 13 SENATOR DUANE: Yes. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 15 Senator continues to yield. 16 SENATOR ROBACH: I'm almost done, 17 and then I've got one more area. But on this, 18 so the money that went for graduate medical 19 education for Upstate Teaching College -- 20 which we all agree will be less; I think we 21 could argue over how much less, but I think 22 significantly -- to put money in the Bad Debt 23 and Charity Pool, who uses the most 24 significant portion of the Bad Debt and

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Charity Pool? What hospitals? 2 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 3 Mr. President. There's a very important goal 4 that we're trying to achieve. And that is no 5 matter where people go to get care, no matter 6 whether they have private insurance, whether 7 they're in managed care, for those people who 8 don't have insurance -- and by the way, we are 9 working with the Department of Health and the 10 federal government to try to provide access to 11 even more people if they don't have insurance. 12 And thanks to Senator Breslin, we made a whole 13 group of people eligible to continue getting 14 insurance through COBRA. But for those that 15 don't have that, we're trying to make Family 16 Health Plus, Child Health Plus more available 17 to people, which will have a reimbursement 18 system which will help all hospitals, 19 including the academic medical centers. 20 So again, I can't -- it would be 21 difficult to predict the future on precisely 22 what will happen. However, I do also want to 23 say -- and I know this is incredibly important 24 to us here in New York State because

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 healthcare is a very important industry in 2 New York State. So while at the same time 3 we're trying to provide care for as many 4 New Yorkers as possible and to provide access 5 to care for as many New Yorkers as possible, 6 we also need to protect New York State's 7 investment in our graduate medical 8 institutions and other academic hospitals. 9 So I may be -- I think -- and I 10 could be mistaken, but I think the question is 11 about making sure that our academic medical 12 centers, during these incredibly difficult 13 economic times, remain an economic engine. By 14 the way, I'm going to be introducing 15 legislation with Assemblymember Weprin to 16 provide tax credits for biotech industries for 17 New York City. And if -- what I'd like to do 18 then is to also do that for the rest of the 19 state, but that's another matter. 20 But all of that said, I think what 21 my colleague's question has to do with is 22 whether or not graduate medical education will 23 be preserved. The answer is yes. To what 24 exact amount, it's hard to predict the future.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 But they are referred to as the crown jewels. 2 Which would not be my title, but that's what 3 we call them. But one of them is the Strong 4 Clinic in Rochester. So they are, in 5 addition, eligible to that $24.5 million pool, 6 which is state-only money. 7 So your local hospitals, the 8 teaching hospitals as well as other hospitals 9 in the Rochester metropolitan area, we are, in 10 very, very difficult times, trying to help 11 them as we transition to this model in 12 providing the best quality healthcare to the 13 most people that we can, and access to 14 healthcare. 15 And in addition, I think that the 16 Senator also has areas which could be 17 characterized as exurban, if not rural. We're 18 also encouraging the provision of primary 19 healthcare through primary healthcare clinics, 20 whether they're freestanding or affiliated 21 with hospitals. 22 SENATOR ROBACH: Through you, 23 Mr. President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Robach. 2 SENATOR ROBACH: If Senator 3 Duane -- different topic. I appreciate -- 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 5 Senator Duane, do you continue to yield? 6 SENATOR DUANE: Yes, 7 Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 9 Senator yields. 10 SENATOR ROBACH: -- your effort, 11 but I don't think that answered the question. 12 I have some of the answers. I know Strong 13 Memorial Hospital will be getting $6 million 14 less because of this shift -- we'll call it a 15 shift, not a sweep -- to the Bad Debt and 16 Charity Pool. 17 But there's another area especially 18 for upstate New York and healthcare, even 19 though I know this is all very complex, that 20 I'm also very, very concerned with. 21 We had made, in past budgets that 22 we all voted on, some continuing-year 23 commitments to rectify the huge imbalance 24 between reimbursement rates for upstate

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 nursing homes to New York City nursing homes. 2 I was wondering if you could tell me how much 3 money was put in this year's budget to do 4 that. 5 And I hope, in all due respect, I 6 could get a little more exact answer than I 7 got in the last round of questions. 8 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 9 Mr. President, I am going to have to ask for 10 an indulgence. Because in an effort not to be 11 imprecise where I can be precise, I do need to 12 just check a document. So if everyone would 13 just take a deep breath, including me, while I 14 find that document. 15 There's no need to stand at ease 16 for it. It's not going to take that long. 17 We made a 43 percent restoration 18 across the board statewide across all nursing 19 homes across the state to the Governor's 20 proposed cuts. So we restored 43 percent of 21 what the Governor had put on the table. 22 In terms of -- I'm going to call 23 them reforms, which is I think the way they 24 should be referred to -- they're actually not

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 going to start till April 1, 2010. So there's 2 going to be a -- we're all going to be 3 involved, and I welcome the Senator's 4 involvement on working with the Department of 5 Health and, frankly, the second floor and the 6 Assembly and, interestingly, the people who 7 represent the workers in those homes on what 8 we're going to do about reimbursement. And of 9 course the industry, the not-for-profit, the 10 proprietary, et cetera. So we'll have work to 11 do together on that. 12 But in terms of this year, across 13 all nursing homes across all of New York 14 State, we made a 43 percent restoration. So 15 in terms of actual dollars, we restored 16 $111 million to the $335 million that were in 17 the Executive Budget. And then, again, there 18 is the Fair Wage Pool so that nursing homes 19 can continue to invest in workers who really 20 do a good job taking care of people, to make 21 sure that we maintain quality in nursing homes 22 for, unfortunately, for those people who need 23 to be in nursing homes, so that families and 24 loved ones don't have to worry. And frankly,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 for people that don't have families but who 2 are in nursing homes, to make sure that even 3 if they don't have people, family members 4 alive to care for them, that they get quality 5 care. 6 SENATOR ROBACH: Thank you, 7 Senator Duane, for that overall answer on the 8 condition of healthcare. 9 Mr. President, I would like to go 10 on the bill, if I could, for a minute. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 12 Senator Robach, on the bill. 13 SENATOR ROBACH: Thank you, 14 Senator Duane. 15 I am absolutely going to vote no 16 for this bill. And I encourage all my 17 colleagues on both sides of the aisle, 18 especially those from upstate New York, to 19 vote no for this bill. While it's very big 20 and complex, I know we're at challenging 21 times -- let me talk about the graduate 22 medical education first, what we did. Not 23 less money, not savings. We took money, you 24 could call it sweep, shift, whatever word you

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 want to call it. I certainly mean no offense 2 by it, other than talk about the merits, and 3 took it to the Bad Debt and Charity Pool, 4 which from year to year most of that money is 5 used in New York City, sometimes up to 6 75 percent of it, and took it out of teaching 7 colleges in upstate New York -- Syracuse, 8 Senator Valesky's district; Albany, Senator 9 Breslin's district; Binghamton, Senator 10 Libous's district; Rochester, and so on and so 11 on. 12 And this we all -- or we should 13 know, if you follow healthcare, is important 14 even more than the money that the universities 15 are going to lose. Those doctors not only 16 come to our region and often stay there, 17 providing the healthcare, whether you have 18 private insurance or other insurance, but 19 that's how we get our doctors in upstate 20 New York, and even more so into the rural 21 areas, there's almost no chance for them to 22 get there without having that exposure, that 23 education at those universities. Very 24 difficult to recruit without that. That's as

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 real as rain. 2 In the Upstate Caucus, we had 3 people come in and educate us on this even 4 further. And I can assure you, there's 5 already beginning to be a shortage of certain 6 doctors in upstate areas. This is only going 7 to make it more acute. 8 Now, it is absolutely outrageous 9 that New York graduates 20 percent of the 10 country's doctors, but we're heading towards 11 only doing it out of one part of the state, 12 the City of New York. That is not public 13 policy, number one. 14 Number two, those doctors, when in 15 residency, are the ones that treat our 16 residents. In my city, the West Side Health 17 Clinic, Anthony Jordan, the two biggest 18 clinics that access people that fall through 19 the cracks, don't have Medicaid, or slip 20 through it -- that's where the doctors come to 21 provide that. Critically, critically 22 important for the indigent as well. 23 And then lastly, I have to say this 24 as a Rochesterian and upstate person, again

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 this is another example where the policies 2 follow in advantage to New York City at the 3 expense of upstate. That reason alone is 4 enough for me not to vote for this 5 appropriation bill. 6 The second reason, on long-term 7 care, if we really are "One New York" and one 8 state, like a family, if we had a 9 reimbursement rate or if you were sending one 10 kid to a college that cost $50,000 and one 11 that cost $10,000, and all of a sudden the 12 other one's tuition went up -- and maybe this 13 is a bad analogy -- you wouldn't keep spending 14 more on one, you would rectify that by 15 ratcheting down the spending on one to get to 16 equality, is the point I'm talking about. 17 We made that pledge knowing that 18 there's an acute crisis in upstate New York, 19 Western New York, the Finger Lakes area, where 20 I'm from, where nursing homes are literally on 21 the brink of financial disaster or closing 22 while our population continues to age. Our 23 answer to that was nothing. Not only are we 24 not putting in more money, we put in less

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 money and didn't even live up to that pledge. 2 That's troubling to me. 3 And it's troubling because I was 4 upset with that before we knew we were getting 5 $6 billion from the federal government that 6 has to be used for this kind of thing. 7 So I really, really have to say, 8 totally on the merits of this, I would like us 9 to go back to the drawing board in so many 10 areas of the budget, but especially this one. 11 And again, I think if we had 12 conference committees and had a chance to hash 13 this out, talk about it, listen a little bit 14 more to healthcare providers and people that 15 get service, I don't think we would have got 16 to this spot, I really don't. I'd like to 17 think that if we really had a chance to talk 18 about it, hash it out, listen to people, we 19 would have got a much, much better outcome on 20 this and not had this result. 21 And so while we had people that 22 work in healthcare, get healthcare services, 23 work in hospitals and do those things asking 24 us during this process, we had no way to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 answer their questions. Now, having this kind 2 of be heaped on us, I can't even go back and 3 say we don't have the resources. We have 4 $6 billion, with a B -- that's a big B -- that 5 has to be used for healthcare. 6 And I would just submit to everyone 7 in this chamber, these are just two important 8 things we've talked about that have not been 9 addressed very fairly. I don't think they're 10 good on policy, I don't think they're fair. 11 And I think that there's going to be a 12 long-term deleterious effect on healthcare in 13 my part of the world and retaining quality 14 doctors and facilities. 15 And so for that reason alone -- I 16 know you don't want me to give you more; I 17 could continue. There are some other things 18 in here I don't like. For those two main 19 reasons, I really feel obligated to vote no. 20 And I hope people will take a long, long look. 21 It's not too late to go back, have a different 22 process, and perhaps do something better and 23 different. 24 Thank you, Mr. President.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 2 you, Senator Robach. 3 Senator DeFrancisco. 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, would 5 Senator Duane answer a question or two? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 7 Senator Duane, would you yield to Senator 8 DeFrancisco? 9 SENATOR DUANE: Yes, 10 Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You 12 may proceed, Senator DeFrancisco. 13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 14 Duane, Senator Robach just asked you a 15 question about how much is going to be spent 16 on graduate medical education this year as 17 compared with last year. And after a long, 18 involved diatribe on that answer, you answered 19 that you'd rather not answer it precisely. 20 And my question is simply this. 21 What do I tell my teaching hospital at SUNY 22 Upstate what are they going get for their 23 graduate medical education program this year? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Duane. 2 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 3 Mr. President. Again, I have no control over 4 characterizations. But I think that my 5 colleagues are familiar with my diatribes, of 6 which I don't think that was one. 7 That said, my colleague from 8 Rochester raised an issue which is very 9 compelling and which I agree with, that 10 graduate medical education funds are in part 11 used for indigent care. What we've attempted 12 to do, and why I can't give precise numbers on 13 that outside of the large, hundreds of 14 millions of dollars of GME/PEP money and 15 pools, adding and subtracting, is because for 16 those institutions, reimbursement based on 17 indigent care, as well as what we're going to 18 do going forward with inpatient and outpatient 19 rates, will actually determine ultimately what 20 that will be. 21 In a perfectly transparent world, 22 in the future I could go back and say how much 23 that is. However, today going forward, I 24 frankly feel it would be irresponsible for me

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 to put a number like that on the table because 2 the money is available in different ways. 3 Which makes sense, although I'd have to say it 4 over and over again, because that's the best 5 way to show how they make sense. 6 But I just think it would be 7 irresponsible for me to throw out a number 8 because I don't know how much indigent care 9 that they'll be providing. I don't know how 10 they'll use transition funds. I can't say 11 that today, and I don't think anyone here 12 could say that. 13 So that's why I am talking about 14 the bigger picture and as they impact graduate 15 medical institutions across the gamut to 16 freestanding primary healthcare clinics. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 18 Senator DeFrancisco. 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 20 Senator Duane yield to another question? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 22 Senator Duane, will you continue to yield to 23 Senator DeFrancisco? 24 SENATOR DUANE: Yes,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: He 3 continues to yield. 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 5 Duane, since apparently you can't answer that 6 question, and so no answer will be given to my 7 medical university, how are they supposed to 8 plan their program for next year? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 10 Senator Duane. 11 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 12 Mr. President, I'm assuming that that hospital 13 which Senator DeFrancisco refers to, and 14 probably the majority of hospitals, have 15 strategic planning departments. 16 And again, I offer, I'm sure 17 Senator Hannon would offer, I'm sure the 18 second floor and the Department of Health 19 would all offer to any institution any help 20 that we can provide to them to plan as these 21 reforms move forward. And I pledge that, and 22 I'm pledging on behalf of all of the 23 stakeholders I just mentioned. I just can't 24 pledge on behalf of Senator Hannon.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 2 Senator DeFrancisco. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 4 Senator Duane answer another question, please? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Would 6 you yield once more, Senator Duane, to Senator 7 DeFrancisco? 8 SENATOR DUANE: Yes, 9 Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You 11 may proceed, Senator DeFrancisco. 12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: If I 13 understand your answer to a previous question 14 correctly, the reforms won't kick in until 15 April of 2010. We're now in April of 2009. 16 So between April of 2009 until some reform 17 kicks in and some clarity is created, what 18 does Upstate University Medical Center do at 19 this point in time as far as determining their 20 graduate medical education program? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 22 Senator Duane. 23 SENATOR DUANE: Well, just -- for 24 2009, I just want to clarify. And I'm

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 assuming that the Senator is referring to GME. 2 So for 2009, the monies that I referred to 3 before, the $283 million and the $24.5 million 4 that's just state funds, not DSH-matched 5 money, that money is going to be distributed 6 under the current graduate medical education 7 formula. 8 Although, actually, I think it was 9 Syracuse Hospital which is not -- that 10 hospital will not be available for that 11 $24.5 million, that's for like the Strong 12 Clinic, Strong Hospital. So if you'll bear 13 with me for a moment, let me pull up what 14 monies will be available to that hospital that 15 we will work with them on. 16 Well, let's just say there's 17 $75 million over two years for transition 18 funding. And there's also the HEAL money 19 which is there. So just at the very least, 20 that's money which that hospital can access by 21 working with us, the other house, and the 22 Department of Health. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 24 Senator DeFrancisco.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Now that 2 that's been cleared up, I'd like to go into 3 another area. The other area I'd like to go 4 into is personal care. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Do you 6 wish to ask a question of Senator Duane? 7 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I do. I'm 8 just giving a little preface. 9 I'd like to go into personal care. 10 And would Senator Duane yield for a question? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 12 Senator Duane, will you continue to yield to 13 Senator DeFrancisco? 14 SENATOR DUANE: Yes, 15 Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 17 Senator DeFrancisco, you may proceed. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: In the 19 Governor's budget he had called for a 20 10 percent across-the-board cut in personal 21 care in all regions of the state. How did the 22 final budget deal with that? 23 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 24 Mr. President, just before I get to that, I

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 absolutely understand the irony that my 2 colleague put forward when he said that "I 3 guess that clears everything up." I am, as 4 you can imagine, incredibly sympathetic to 5 that. It is very hard to describe what we're 6 doing in this part of the budget in a way 7 where anyone can say that it clarifies it to 8 exactly the way that they need to understand 9 it. 10 I'm trying to meet the needs for 11 clarification from my colleagues as they ask 12 them, and I apologize if the way I've answered 13 it is not clarifying it the way that they want 14 it clarified. I will try to clarify in a way 15 that makes it more understandable, because it 16 is very hard to understand, and I appreciate 17 my colleagues on both sides of the aisle 18 trying to understand what is happening with 19 this budget. 20 I just also want to say -- and I 21 think it's important, again, before I -- just 22 to make a new context, or not a new context 23 but to say something else. My colleague from 24 Rochester seemed to indicate that FMAP dollars

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 could only be used for healthcare. As the 2 chair of the Healthcare Committee, I wish that 3 that were so. However, our Washington 4 leaders, in their wisdom, decided not to 5 encumber FMAP dollars to only be used for 6 healthcare. 7 They encouraged it in the way that 8 they will match it, which is that we spend you 9 know -- I'm going to be a little imprecise -- 10 40 cents, we get 60 cents more. Those of you 11 who are in our conference remember when I held 12 up a sign to that effect, which I probably 13 have in one of these files, but I'm not going 14 to pull it out. But if you recall, I held up 15 a sign which said for every 40 cents we spend, 16 we get 60 cents back on the dollar if we're 17 using it for healthcare reasons approved by 18 our colleagues in Washington. So -- 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Point of 20 order. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 22 Senator DeFrancisco, point of order. 23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I'm just 24 wondering if there's any rule of germaneness

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 in an answer to a question. Do our rules have 2 any -- 3 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: No, 4 Senator DeFrancisco, there isn't. 5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Okay. 6 Thank you. So we'll just wait. 7 SENATOR DUANE: Well, I just -- I 8 mean I know, through you, Mr. President, that 9 it sounds -- 10 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 11 Senator Klein. 12 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 13 point of order. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Point 15 of order, Senator Klein. 16 SENATOR KLEIN: You know, I hope 17 the members on the other side of the aisle 18 will conduct themselves with the proper 19 decorum and not get personal. We're debating 20 the budget, which is of course very important 21 to all of us, and under General Rule 22 Section 9, 4(B), members are expected to 23 uphold the highest standard of civility in 24 dealing with other members. And I hope

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 they'll all do that. 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Point of 3 order. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: And I 5 hope that the entire chamber will have that 6 degree of civility outlined by Senator Skelos 7 and Senator Smith earlier today. 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Point of 9 order. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Yes, 11 Senator DeFrancisco. 12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: With 13 respect to civility, I am the epitome of 14 civility. I can't imagine why I'm being so 15 patient. 16 I think part of civility is when 17 you have a debate and ask a question, that 18 there's a good faith opportunity to give an 19 answer that has something to do with the 20 specific question. And I would hope that in 21 answering questions there would be civil and 22 germane answers rather than what we've heard 23 so far. And it's nothing to do with personal, 24 it has to do with the reality of what we've

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 been listening to. 2 So I don't know if he remembers the 3 question or not. I can repeat it if he 4 doesn't. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 6 Senator Duane, do you recall the question? 7 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, 8 Mr. President. I guess I was originally 9 responding to the preface of the exact 10 question that was being put on the table, 11 which I thought was in the bounds of providing 12 an answer. Because there was a -- I thought 13 the characterization of what was happening 14 here, followed by a precise question, I 15 thought it was important to note the 16 characterization. 17 And, Mr. President, I am going to 18 ask your indulgence to just finish that, 19 because I think it's important for everyone. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You 21 may continue. 22 SENATOR DUANE: In all candor, 23 Mr. President, on this side of the aisle 24 during some -- and the later it got, the more

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 this probably was the case -- there was some, 2 I would say, laughter about the complexity of 3 this healthcare budget. And in addition, when 4 I spoke with my colleagues on the other side 5 of the aisle on points of clarification, there 6 were also smiles and laughter as well as, on 7 both sides of the aisle, people being deadly 8 serious talking about very complicated issues. 9 That said, Mr. President, for 10 personal care, for 2009 the personal care cut 11 is 2.1 percent. However, I would be remiss if 12 I did not also note that for 2008 we also -- 13 and I'm forgetting the date now, but we made a 14 cut at that time of 1.495 percent, so the 2.1 15 is on top that. 16 However, I think that -- well, let 17 me leave it -- at the risk of adding to 18 confusion, because I understand how that could 19 happen, so I'll just -- I'll leave it at that 20 unless there's more information that my 21 colleague wishes on that part of the 22 healthcare budget, the home care part of the 23 budget. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator DeFrancisco. 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 3 Senator Duane continue to yield? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 5 Senator Duane, do you continue to yield? 6 SENATOR DUANE: Yes, 7 Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You 9 may continue, Senator DeFrancisco. 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: During the 11 course of the hearings on the budget that I 12 was present at, the number was given that the 13 total amount of dollars spent by the State of 14 New York for personal care is approximately 15 1.4 billion -- with a B -- dollars, 16 1.1 billion of which was paid to New York City 17 residents alone. And the other $300 million 18 was spread throughout the remainder of the 19 state, including Long Island, Westchester 20 County, all the way up the Hudson, the Capital 21 Region, to Central New York and Western 22 New York and Northern New York. 23 Is that the figure that is in the 24 final budget?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 2 Senator Duane. 3 SENATOR DUANE: You know, 4 Mr. President -- and I don't mean to upset 5 people, that's not my wish or desire. But 6 predicting how home care dollars are going to 7 be spent, I cannot do that. I don't -- I 8 can't do that. 9 In terms of the policy on home 10 care, which is something that we've all 11 wrestled with, and obviously my colleague from 12 Syracuse, by showing his interest today. And 13 I'm not sure whether he asked that question 14 during the budget hearings or not, but it is 15 obviously an issue of great interest to people 16 around the state. 17 And frankly, even with the dollar 18 amounts that the Senator put on the table, 19 there are concerns in New York City about why 20 their amount is their amount, among the 21 New York City -- among New York City 22 government, among that HRA, and why people are 23 approved for it. 24 So again, I -- just because I --

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 instead of predicting the future, which is 2 impossible, I would encourage my colleague to, 3 you know, work with me and Senator Hannon and 4 the Assembly and the Department of Health. 5 You know, one of the things -- and 6 it's in the Article VII part of the budget, 7 one of the tools that we put on the table, and 8 again it's not going to -- it's not going to 9 today help me or anyone to predict what the 10 exact or even close to what the exact dollar 11 amounts are. But we are instituting -- and 12 this was a cause of some controversy, quite 13 frankly -- assessment centers on the provision 14 of home care. And I think with two goals, of 15 course a cost-saving goal, but also to make 16 sure that people who need personal care are 17 getting personal care. So it might also 18 cut -- the people who were not getting it now 19 will be entitled to it, and people who maybe 20 don't need it won't be getting it going 21 forward. 22 So that assessment center -- and 23 again, there were providers and consumers that 24 were on both sides of that issue of the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 assessment centers and for personal care. And 2 again, because I don't want to -- I could, but 3 you probably would all be grateful that I 4 don't, I could list the reasons the consumers 5 and the agencies and the administration had 6 for wanting to do it and really for not 7 wanting to do it. It was a very lively 8 debate. And we did come down on deciding to 9 provide the assessment centers. 10 But how, again, that policy is put 11 into place in counties around the state, I and 12 I know the second floor and the Department of 13 Health and the human -- the -- let's see what 14 we call them -- the human services agencies 15 and departments in counties around the state, 16 they -- I think it's important that we do be 17 involved in that discussion. 18 So an excellent question. I'm 19 sorry it was such a long answer. But the 20 actual what we did with the trend cut which I 21 put on the table before, in addition to the 22 new assessment centers and how we're going 23 phase that in, I think we'll be able to look 24 back in a year and see exactly what's

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 happened, and that will inform our policy 2 going forward. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 4 Senator DeFrancisco. 5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: On the 6 bill. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 8 you, Senator Duane. 9 Senator DeFrancisco, on the bill. 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: You know, 11 there's been a lot of talk about the three 12 New York City Democrats in a room and the lack 13 of transparency. The budget debate is another 14 example of the lack of transparency. 15 I just hope this series of 16 questions that Senator Robach had asked 17 Senator Duane and the ones I asked are seen by 18 every New Yorker, because it is total lack of 19 transparency. If the chairman of Health 20 cannot give a clear answer to the simplest of 21 questions in an open meeting in this wonderful 22 chambers, then how are all the providers 23 supposed to decide what this budget means to 24 them? How are we supposed to decide whether

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 this is a good budget or not? 2 And to suggest that this is a 3 personal thing, it's not absolutely not a 4 personal thing. It has to do with the quality 5 of the question and the quality of the answer. 6 And anybody who's watching this question and 7 answer period cannot come out of it with any 8 other conclusion than the answers were total 9 obfuscation. That's all it was. Because he 10 either didn't know the answers or he didn't 11 want to provide the answers. 12 Well, as to the last question I 13 asked, during the hearings -- and I thought he 14 was there as well during the hearings, Senator 15 Duane was, during the health part of it -- 16 there were questions asked about the total 17 amount of money spent on personal care in the 18 state. And the answer given was $1.4 billion, 19 1.1 billion of which went to the City of 20 New York. 21 Now, there must be some way of 22 determining in this budget how much money is 23 being projected to go to the City of New York 24 this year and the rest of the state. I don't

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 think that's a fair share. Either the system 2 is wrong in the way it determines who's 3 entitled to it, personal care, because it's 4 different in New York City than elsewhere -- 5 and if it's a different system, than the 6 people upstate are not being provided with the 7 proper personal care or the right amount. 8 If, on the other hand, they're 9 being provided with the right amount, then 10 New York City is wasting a heck of a lot of 11 money on personal care, and there's an area 12 where we could save in order to provide in 13 other areas. Because reform is what we should 14 be doing, not the nonsense that this budget 15 shows. 16 So I think that answer had to be 17 readily available, but I think, in all 18 honesty, the answer was one that he didn't 19 want to give. Because it's got to be 20 embarrassing not only to Senator Duane, who is 21 from New York City, but the three New York 22 City leaders that sat in that room, that 23 there's such an unfair distribution of 24 personal care dollars throughout the state.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 It's totally embarrassing. And it's got to be 2 corrected. And obviously it's not going to be 3 corrected in this budget, or we would have 4 heard about it. 5 Graduate medical education. You 6 know, these teaching schools have to know what 7 they're going to get. They have to know, and 8 they have to plan their budgets. How do you 9 possibly plan your budget if you've got to 10 wait for some process to happen that no one 11 could even explain other than, well, there's 12 pots here, there's pots there, and we'll try 13 to help them planning when -- who's going to 14 try to help them planning if this body, who's 15 passing a budget, can't even explain what the 16 system is or give any idea of how that number 17 is going to be determined? 18 You know, it's personally 19 embarrassing to me, and it's not my 20 responsibility to be on this floor and try to 21 explain a budget to another Senator. It's 22 personally embarrassing to me that the public 23 can't get a straight answer, even in the 24 openness of the sunlight of this beautiful day

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 today, that we can't get a straight answer or 2 an answer that can give anyone a way to plan 3 the future of their particular aspect of this 4 budget, in this case healthcare. 5 So because of that and because of 6 so many other reasons, I'm going to vote no on 7 this bill. It's a bill that not only is 8 unexplainable by the sponsor of the bill or 9 the chairman of the Health Committee, I think 10 it's unexplainable by anyone, since no one -- 11 whether it's a hospital, whether it's a 12 nursing home, whether it's a medical 13 college -- nobody can figure out what's in 14 support store for them in the future. And if 15 they can't plan from day to day, then how are 16 they going to provide this quality healthcare 17 that everyone claims that they're in favor of? 18 They just can't. You can't do it. 19 So I'm going to vote no on this 20 budget bill for those reasons and many other 21 reasons. Thank you, Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 23 you, Senator DeFrancisco. 24 Senator LaValle.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you, 2 Mr. President. Would, through you, Senator 3 Duane yield to some questions? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 5 Senator Duane, will you yield to Senator 6 LaValle for a question? 7 SENATOR DUANE: Yes, 8 Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 10 Senator LaValle, Senator Duane yields. You 11 may proceed. 12 SENATOR LaVALLE: Senator Duane, 13 I just want to preface. I think my questions 14 are simpler. But if there is a number that 15 you don't know, maybe you can get that for me. 16 Because our hospitals will be asking us 17 questions, and it's important that we are able 18 to answer it. 19 As I look through this, is it true 20 that we are making a philosophical move, 21 through this budget, in moving away from 22 hospital-based care, inpatient care, to clinic 23 care? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Duane. 2 SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President, 3 what we are trying to do is to provide more 4 preventive and primary healthcare to encourage 5 outpatient service rather than inpatient 6 service, while at the same time trying to 7 preserve the economic engine that our 8 healthcare industry is in this state. 9 And I just -- I think that the 10 academic institutions would absolutely confirm 11 and reinforce that they -- in fact, they've 12 done numerous reports on this -- that they use 13 money that -- part of their graduate medical 14 education money to provide care to the 15 indigent throughout their systems, from 16 clinics to inpatient. 17 So as we put money towards indigent 18 care, as we try to get more people signed up 19 for Family Health Plus and Child Health Plus, 20 as you know, Mr. President, because of your 21 work on the COBRA bill which we did -- I would 22 say last week, but maybe it was the week 23 before, because time is just -- I don't -- 24 what day is -- anyway, I don't remember when

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 that was. However, that -- some of that 2 insurance, if you will, as well as care for 3 the indigent is part of the mission provided 4 through graduate medical education. 5 Yes. Yes. The answer is yes. But 6 unfortunately, I had to do it in my own 7 step-by-step way. 8 SENATOR LaVALLE: Through you, 9 Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Yes, 11 Senator LaValle. Will you continue to yield, 12 Senator Duane? 13 SENATOR LaVALLE: Senator Duane, 14 our colleague, Senator Ruth Hassell-Thompson, 15 has been receiving medical attention. Could 16 you tell me where she has been receiving 17 medical attention? 18 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 19 Mr. President, I'd be more than happy to. But 20 in my heart I think that my colleague knows. 21 And let me just -- and I -- 22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: I'd 23 also just suggest that's private information 24 for a member of the body, and I don't see its

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 relevancy to this proceeding. It's not 2 germane. 3 Senator LaValle. 4 SENATOR LaVALLE: Okay, I respect 5 that. Through you, Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Will 7 you continue to yield, Senator Duane? 8 SENATOR DUANE: Yes, 9 Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You 11 may proceed, Senator LaValle. 12 SENATOR LaVALLE: Senator Duane, 13 if a person was to be taken to Albany Med, do 14 you know how Albany Med fared in this budget? 15 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 16 Mr. President, again, I don't -- the future is 17 determined by a number of different factors 18 which I think everybody would -- although I'd 19 love to, because it helps me to remember. At 20 some point I'll have it memorized. Or maybe 21 not. I mean, I don't -- maybe I would ask 22 Senator -- we can have a contest on who has 23 memorized more. But I'm not sure, he might do 24 better this year than I will, but I'm

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 determined to get there. 2 I cannot predict what resources 3 Albany Med will access going forward. I 4 cannot predict what insurance people going to 5 that hospital will be using and so how their 6 reimbursement will go. I also, and I -- for 7 any hospital, and this isn't particular to 8 SUNY Albany -- I'm sorry, not to SUNY Albany, 9 excuse me; my motel used to be across the 10 street from SUNY Albany -- Albany Med. And I 11 have a friend who's on the board, so she's 12 going to be angry with me that I just said 13 that. Albany Med, for instance. And now I've 14 lost what I was going to say. 15 But I don't know, I can't predict 16 what forms of assistance they will access as 17 we transition our healthcare. Oh, what I was 18 going to say is I'm not 100 percent sure 19 whether that question for Albany Med is -- I 20 don't know offhand what their entire system 21 is. And so when you break down what a 22 hospital -- for instance, my hospital, my 23 local hospital is St. Vincent's, and they have 24 primary, they have a hospital, they have home

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 care, they have nursing homes. 2 So I'd have to actually -- and I 3 don't think anybody wants me to go through my 4 list of what the system is for Albany Medical 5 Center to see how they could fare going 6 forward across whatever system there is with 7 whatever is available to them from the state 8 itself or using matched funds. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 10 Senator LaValle. 11 SENATOR LaVALLE: Through you, 12 Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Would 14 you continue to yield, Senator Duane? 15 SENATOR LaVALLE: Senator Duane, 16 I'm not trying to play 20 questions with you 17 and expect you to have answers. You know, we 18 have staff to assist us. And I know that 19 Albany Med loses $3.3 million. 20 But my question is I'm going to 21 read some statistics to you from SPARCS, from 22 the state reporting system. And I would like 23 you to react to the statistics that I read to 24 you that deal with inpatient hospital care.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 There are 245,000 babies born in a 2 hospital each year; 200,000 are normal, with 3 45,000 having complications to a greater or 4 lesser extent. We have 44,000 related to 5 heart failure, 6,400 related to mastectomies. 6 About 20,000 inpatients are treated for 7 multiple significant traumas. Three thousand 8 are treated for burns on an inpatient basis. 9 And 44 million outpatient visits, of which 10 roughly 6 to 7 million are ER, emergency 11 room-related. 12 In your judgment as chairman, 13 having worked through this, are those figures 14 accurate, in your mind, and reflect a picture 15 of what hospitals and the inpatients that they 16 deal with today, the relevancy of their having 17 the resources to deal with the figures that 18 I've read to you? 19 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, new 20 Mr. President. The new Mr. President is the 21 old Mr. President. 22 Through you, I'm not sure that it 23 is a prudent use of my time to go -- I mean, I 24 could probably verify or dispute the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 statistics which my colleague from Long Island 2 has put on the table. But I'm not sure that 3 even if he really wants me to, that his 4 colleagues or my colleagues would really like 5 me to do that. 6 So let me just say that whether or 7 not that's accurate, I think that the 8 bigger-picture answer is that this is a very 9 difficult year. And what we did in the health 10 part of the budget and across the budget is 11 really a balancing act with many competing 12 needs, worthy, important needs. But we are in 13 a very difficult, difficult economic time, the 14 worst since the Great Depression. 15 At the same time, the State of 16 New York is trying to bring primary and 17 preventive healthcare to people, and more 18 people will be accessing Child Health Plus, 19 Family Health Plus. Who is insured by what, 20 depending on what happens with employment in 21 the state, is going to shift dramatically. So 22 that's going on. We're trying to reform the 23 system so that we make the best use of dollars 24 and we actually provide care for people and

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 preserve the healthcare industry. 2 And on top that, and I'm grateful 3 for it, and I think we all are -- and Senator 4 Hannon referenced it, and Senator Robach, 5 though he had a slight error about whether or 6 not that was dedicated to healthcare only, 7 which it's not. So that is yet another layer 8 on top this year. 9 So we want to make sure that we try 10 to keep people out of emergency rooms. We 11 want to make sure that people who are entitled 12 to Family Health Plus and Child Health Plus or 13 just -- they hate it when I say this, or just 14 plain old Medicaid -- are getting that, that 15 we try to keep as many people insured as 16 possible, that we try to make it so that 17 people don't use emergency rooms as their 18 primary care facility, and that less people 19 require inpatient care because we're providing 20 them with care earlier on. 21 So whether the statistics are 22 correct or not, I'm not sure that that really, 23 really matters. I think what matters is how 24 we take care of people going forward. And I

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 think that -- and I can stand behind what 2 we're doing in the healthcare budget today in 3 these difficult times, with trying to bring 4 care to people, the best possible care, to use 5 our dollars, our healthcare dollars wisely, 6 and being prudent about how we use FMAP 7 dollars insofar as those dollars that are 8 being used for healthcare, we don't know what 9 the future holds, so we have to make sure that 10 we're prudent in the months going forward when 11 those dollars are available to make sure we 12 use them wisely. 13 So we are trying to today provide 14 care, to provide the best care going forward, 15 and to make sure we're prudent about how we 16 spend precious dollars, whether from the 17 federal government or our own tax-levy 18 dollars, in the months to come, because who 19 know what the future holds. 20 SENATOR LaVALLE: Through you, 21 Mr. President, would Senator Duane continue to 22 yield? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Senator Duane, do you continue to yield?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DUANE: I do, 2 Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 4 Senator yields. 5 SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you, 6 Senator Duane. 7 I think our hospitals thought there 8 was so much stimulus money that they thought 9 that they would be able to weather the storm 10 for this year. And yesterday I read some 11 figures, but just moving now to our medical 12 centers, the three hospitals, SUNY hospitals. 13 And Senator Flanagan, who represents the 14 Medical Center at Stony Brook, it has an 15 impact of $4.8 million they're losing. And 16 also, there is a permanent $28 million 17 reduction in base aid support. 18 So what do we -- myself as the 19 ranking member on the Higher Ed Committee, 20 Senator Flanagan, who represents the 21 hospital -- what do we say to Dr. Strongwater? 22 What would you say to Dr. Strongwater? He's 23 telling me he's losing $4.8 million and has a 24 permanent $28 million reduction in base

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 support. 2 SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President, 3 through you. You know, just without getting 4 into the specifics, again, I do know that 5 yesterday -- and I'm sure my colleague was 6 listening closely to this, and I'm pretty sure 7 that I heard this yesterday, but it does 8 impact SUNY hospitals. But we did restore, I 9 want to say -- and for some reason this 10 25.4 -- or sometimes it's 24.5. But we did 11 restore 25 -- I think $25.4 million to SUNY 12 hospitals. 13 Now, again, there are many ways 14 that hospitals can draw down money. There's 15 DSH, disproportionate share. There are the 16 hospitals with high Medicaid use. I mean, I 17 can go back to them all again, but I've 18 already said them several times. But I'll do 19 them again. 20 But, you know, in addition, by 21 encouraging and incentivizing, not today but 22 soon, outpatient care by improving outpatient 23 rates, that should -- that will help hospitals 24 as we transition.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 And I -- it's just killing me, 2 Mr. President, so I just need to say something 3 else because it was left unsaid. Even though 4 the Senator from Syracuse is not here. I was 5 there when the commissioner said those numbers 6 about personal care. But, you know, in all 7 candor, the local government makes the 8 decision about who gets home care. I don't 9 decide that. He doesn't decide that. You 10 don't decide it. His local government makes 11 that decision. 12 And so the assessment centers, I 13 would hope, will be objective in figuring out 14 why some counties are -- I was going to say 15 meaner about providing home care, but really 16 I'm trying to be objective -- why they are 17 stricter, why they are -- I don't know why 18 that is. And maybe that's not what it is. 19 Hopefully, these assessment centers will 20 figure it out. 21 But I don't think that Senator 22 DeFrancisco, who is not here, could answer 23 that question, because those decisions are 24 made at the local level. So if there's a city

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 upstate, Long Island, we should really -- and 2 I have, interestingly enough -- spoken with 3 the county administrators of these programs. 4 But the assessment centers I think are 5 actually a better tool. But I will keep 6 everyone posted every step of the way as those 7 assessment centers are phased in and as we 8 work with county governments to find out why 9 home care is approved in some cases and not in 10 other cases and whether it should be approved 11 more or less, et cetera. 12 But outside of New York City, that 13 is a county decision. That's not mine or the 14 Department of Health's decision, or yours or 15 his -- unless he bosses around his -- you 16 know, I don't know how it works there. But 17 they make the decision. 18 SENATOR LaVALLE: Through you, 19 Mr. President, would the Senator yield? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Duane, do you continue to yield? 22 SENATOR DUANE: Yes, 23 Mr. President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator yields. 2 SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you. 3 Thank you, Senator Duane. 4 I believe that Dr. Strongwater at 5 the University Hospital at Stony Brook is 6 doing everything to ensure that, you know, he 7 is cutting costs and so forth, and he has 8 indicated that. 9 What do I tell him? Just going 10 back to the medical education, he's saying 11 Stony Brook specifically is going to lose 12 $13.2 million. You have indicated that that's 13 now in a new pool, in the indigent pool. Why 14 would graduate medical education be in an 15 indigent pool? I don't understand that. It 16 sounds like we're going to get hurt, we're 17 going to lose money in this. So maybe you 18 could explain that, please. 19 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 20 Mr. President. That hospital will have and 21 will be getting -- well, I'm assuming -- and 22 again, I could look at my numerous runs, but I 23 don't think that's really what this question 24 is about. But there's potentially access to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 $25 million. Not just that hospital center, 2 but others will have access to it. If it's 3 high Medicaid, and a teaching hospital, it 4 will have access to that pool of money. In 5 addition, it can draw down DSH money. 6 And the rates in the future are 7 going to shift. And if that hospital needs 8 transitional funds, there is the $75 million 9 transition fund available for hospitals that 10 need it. And also there are HEAL grants which 11 exist today. And there is also, just 12 generally -- and I can't say precisely how 13 it's going to -- well, I could probably, I 14 could hazard a guess, but I don't think that's 15 helpful. 16 But the GME/PEP pool, remember, 17 it's being moved into indigent care. However, 18 that money is also available for that 19 hospital, that medical center. 20 SENATOR LaVALLE: On the bill, 21 Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator LaValle, on the bill. 24 SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Duane. I know it's very difficult to 2 answer in a very complicated area with 3 specificity some of the questions that we've 4 been asking. 5 We've been asking these questions 6 because our hospital CEOs are asking us 7 questions. Like the hospital in the village 8 that I live in, in Port Jefferson, Mather 9 Hospital, the CEO is going to ask me: How did 10 we lose a million dollars? 11 Hospitals in the east end, after we 12 went through the Berger Commission and we led 13 the way with a model of bringing three rural 14 hospitals in the east end of my district, 15 bringing them together to form an alliance to 16 save precious healthcare dollars and to 17 improve access to people on the east end by 18 being able now to bring doctors in specialty 19 areas that had not been out there in the past 20 to be able to be there. We've done that. 21 Yes, we have accessed HEAL money. 22 There is still more HEAL money that we can 23 access. We have brought the alliance into a 24 relationship with the State University

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Hospital at Stony Brook. Again, trying to use 2 valuable dollars to be able to establish 3 clinics where necessary, to use our residents 4 at the university at the hospitals on the east 5 end. 6 So we have gone through all that 7 we're doing, and yet they're going to say to 8 me: Hello? We get stimulus money. And we 9 thought we were going to be okay, and we've 10 done everything by the book, and now we're 11 going to lose money. 12 I am going to tell them -- and you 13 might at some point say there's a shift in 14 rules here. We now have a new concept of 15 healthcare. We are moving away from inpatient 16 care, whether it be through the ER or in the 17 hospital. We've changed the rules. And I'm 18 not sure what the rules are. 19 So I don't know what I'm going to 20 say to them. I guess we're going to be 21 learning as we move forward. I'm probably in 22 a little better shape than the other 61 23 colleagues here, because I've got Senator 24 Hannon sitting next to me. So I can ask

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Hannon, as can Senator Larkin. 2 But it is critically important 3 that -- and what's happening at a federal 4 level, potentially, can be very, very 5 damaging. And I hear you say things, 6 something that I have -- earlier in my career, 7 I had the good fortune of serving as vice 8 chairman on a commission on health education 9 and illness prevention. And back 25 or more 10 years ago, I along with the commission members 11 were the strongest advocates in this state for 12 more dollars in illness prevention than -- all 13 the money was going into primary care. 14 Now, we have done in 25 years a 15 much better job, and our citizens themselves 16 are doing a better job. We have each year, 17 thankfully, rates dropping in terms of 18 cessation of smoking and other things that are 19 not good for us. And people are doing that on 20 their own. They're making their own decisions 21 that they should be doing this. And they're 22 getting some benefits, through life insurance 23 and other things, to keep encouraging them to 24 have a good lifestyle.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 But, you know, I didn't mean, 2 Mr. President, to be intrusive where our 3 colleague was taken. I was trying to make a 4 point that hospitals continue to be a critical 5 part of this delivery system. And if we 6 change the rules so quickly, those people that 7 are there today, tomorrow, a year from now are 8 not going to get the kind of care that they 9 need. So we are shifting the rules. Because 10 we're choosing to put money, more money, I'm 11 gathering -- I don't know this, but I'm 12 gathering -- into indigent care. We're 13 putting more money, which is not a bad thing, 14 more money into health insurance so that we 15 are providing and cutting down on the people 16 who do not have health insurance and 17 healthcare. 18 But I think people need to know 19 this, what we're doing. And as I've said so 20 many times on this floor, when we move to this 21 thing called fairness and we're trying to 22 provide for someone else, we're taking away 23 from somebody. We're taking away from 24 someone.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 I happen to live in an area that is 2 very rich in a healthcare delivery system. 3 The Village of Port Jefferson, I have two 4 hospitals. State University at Stony Brook is 5 very close by, a 10-minute drive. I'm now 6 wondering what is going to happen to that 7 healthcare delivery system when State 8 University at Stony Brook is getting 9 $4.8 million less -- and that's at minimum, by 10 the way, minimum that they're getting less. 11 Mather Hospital is getting $1 million less. 12 So in the area that I represent, 13 and in the east end hospitals of the First 14 Senatorial District, are the people going to 15 expect out of this budget less care, less 16 care? 17 And that's why, when the roll call 18 is called, I am not going to support this 19 piece of the budget. 20 Thank you, Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 22 you, Senator LaValle. 23 Senator Larkin. 24 SENATOR LARKIN: Thank you,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. Would Senator Duane yield for 2 a series of questions? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Duane, do you yield? 5 SENATOR DUANE: Yes, 6 Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 8 Senator Duane yields. 9 SENATOR LARKIN: I'd like to ask 10 Senator Duane, have you met with an 11 organization called NorMet, which is the 12 Northern Medical Hospital Association [sic] 13 outside of New York City? 14 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 15 Mr. President, I did not bring what I refer to 16 as my meetings matrix. So I'm going to be a 17 little imprecise about this, but I guarantee 18 that I met with members of the board and CEOs 19 of hospitals in Senator Larkin's district. 20 SENATOR LARKIN: Will he 21 continue? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator, do you continue to yield? 24 SENATOR DUANE: Yes,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator Duane continues. 4 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator Duane, 5 they said you met with them, and some of your 6 staff did, and you told them this would be a 7 fair budget. 8 In that 44 hospitals, six of them 9 are in my district, who converged under the 10 Berger Commission. By converging, they made 11 some progress for single operational 12 hospitals. Yet when I look at the printouts, 13 these hospitals are going lose $6 million. 14 The question they're asking me I 15 ask you. How do they keep their operating 16 rooms, their cancer centers, their emergency 17 rooms open when we take it away from them? 18 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 19 Mr. President, I probably should have asked my 20 colleague to spell out the association and not 21 just give me the initials, because not doing 22 so and then sort of doing "gotcha" kind of 23 made it feel like a trick question. 24 And I'm confident that that's not

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 how it was intended; however, that is how it 2 felt to me just then. 3 That said, Mr. President -- 4 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 5 point of personal privilege. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: State 7 your point, Senator Larkin. 8 SENATOR LARKIN: I specifically 9 said NorMet, North Metropolitan Hospital 10 outside of New York City. I wasn't treating 11 to be smart or anything, I was telling you the 12 acronym and I spelled it out who they are. 13 They represent 44 hospitals. 14 It wasn't a trick. It wasn't 15 meant -- I was trying to be specific and 16 shorten it up. That's what we're looking for, 17 is answers. 18 SENATOR DUANE: Through you 19 Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Duane. 22 SENATOR DUANE: Again, that's how 23 it felt to me. I actually -- what I thought 24 was that my colleague was asking me -- and

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 this could very well have been my mistake. I 2 actually thought that the question was going 3 to be specific to the hospitals in the area 4 that the Senator represented. And I apologize 5 for misunderstanding that question. 6 Of course I do remember meeting 7 with that group, although it was $2 billion 8 ago that I met with them. We've already lost, 9 in this state, $2 billion in revenue. 10 And in that context, I would 11 maintain my promise to them that while at the 12 same time we are trying to keep people from 13 getting sick, we are also go to try to help 14 hospitals as they -- as we transition. 15 So I am pledging my help to make 16 sure that as we go through this difficult 17 economic time, and as our healthcare system 18 continues to transition, that I will work with 19 the hospitals in that association and those 20 that are within Senator Larkin's district. 21 That is my pledge. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Larkin. 24 SENATOR LARKIN: Will Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Duane continue? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator Duane, do you continue to yield? 4 SENATOR DUANE: Only with 5 answers -- only with answers that the sponsor 6 does not already know the answer to. If he 7 would at least tell me the answer. But I'm 8 willing to answer questions that he may not 9 know the answer to. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 11 Senator Larkin, Senator Duane continues to 12 yield. 13 SENATOR LARKIN: I'm not here, 14 Mr. President, to make games. I'm here to try 15 to find out answers for my constituents. 16 Maybe if this body would have followed the 17 laws of 2007 and had committees, we wouldn't 18 be wasting our time asking a lot of questions. 19 These are questions that are being 20 asked to me. I don't have the answer. I'm 21 going to the chairman of the Health Committee. 22 The question is, are any of these 23 hospitals going to get any of the pool money? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Excuse

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 me, Senator Larkin. 2 Senator Klein, why do you rise? 3 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 4 can Senator Larkin ask a question of Chairman 5 Duane, please. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 7 Senator Larkin, please state your question. 8 SENATOR LARKIN: My question is, 9 are any of these hospitals going to get any of 10 the pool money? 11 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 12 Mr. President, we're all, I think, angry at 13 the economic times that we find ourselves. 14 They are very, very difficult times. I'm 15 angry about what has happened to our economy 16 as well. 17 The answer regarding those 18 hospitals in the Senator's district is to the 19 extent that they are entitled to it, I will 20 absolutely help them access the state-levy 21 funds that are available to them as well as 22 the larger pools of money that I don't know 23 offhand what they're entitled to, whether 24 they're teaching hospitals, without going

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 through the list. But to the extent that they 2 are entitled to any of those pools of money in 3 addition to what they get with reimbursement, 4 et cetera, you betcha, I will help them. 5 SENATOR LARKIN: Will Senator 6 Duane continue to yield? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 8 Senator Duane, do you continue to yield? 9 SENATOR DUANE: Yes, 10 Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 12 Senator yields. 13 SENATOR LARKIN: If that's the 14 case, that something may or may not be done, 15 Tom, are we going to have a renewal of the 16 HEAL money, grants? 17 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 18 Mr. President, HEAL money is going to continue 19 to be available. 20 SENATOR LARKIN: When? 21 SENATOR DUANE: It's available 22 today, and it will be available tomorrow. 23 SENATOR LARKIN: If that's the 24 case, when will the information that's

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 appropriate go out on the medical records? As 2 I'm sure you know, that they said through the 3 stimulus package there were going to be 4 fundings available so that we can do all of 5 these prescriptions and everything on medical 6 records so we won't have an incident like we 7 had in New York not too long ago with the 8 child with the paint, because they put the 9 wrong prescription on it. 10 There's talk out there that 11 something's in this budget. I've looked at 12 it, I cannot find it. The Health Department 13 said they're working with the Senate Health 14 Committee, and I think it's a very important 15 thing. And I'm not trying to be rude; I know 16 you're sincere about it. I would just like to 17 know what I can tell my people. 18 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 19 Mr. President, I believe that the Senator in 20 good conscience can assure his hospitals and 21 his other providers that we are -- and I am 22 encouraging the department, and I believe 23 they -- I know they share this concern, moving 24 as quickly as possible to implement those

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 changes. It's one of the goals and aims not 2 just of the state but also of the federal 3 government. 4 SENATOR LARKIN: Because of 5 timewise, I want to quickly get through this. 6 One more question. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 8 Senator Duane, do you yield to Senator Larkin? 9 SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President, I 10 just want to -- one of the things that in our 11 negotiations between the other house and the 12 Executive is there is actually language in the 13 budget that mandates, for lack of a better 14 term, that that money move out as quickly as 15 possible as we get it. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator Larkin, proceed with your question. 18 SENATOR LARKIN: When we're 19 discussing this and funding at hospitals and 20 we're discussing the MTA, what position do you 21 take about taxing the hospitals who we're 22 already taking money away, we're shorting 23 them, and then we're going to tax their 24 payroll?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 2 Mr. President, I just want to reiterate that 3 we fought for and got a reduction in the gross 4 receipts tax from 0.7 to 0.35 percent. So we 5 made progress there. 6 SENATOR LARKIN: Well, I'm not 7 their accountant. But their accountants are 8 telling me that 1 and 1 is not 3. 9 My final question is -- 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 11 Senator Duane, do you continue to yield? 12 SENATOR DUANE: Yes, 13 Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 15 Senator yields. 16 SENATOR LARKIN: What about our 17 Article 28 clinics? They're starting to 18 complain that they're being short-shrifted and 19 there's a question about some legal operations 20 that they're going to venture into. Can you 21 enlighten us on that? 22 SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President, 23 through you, I believe that -- it's almost 24 like this question is a setup for me,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. I believe when -- 2 SENATOR LARKIN: I can't hear 3 him. 4 SENATOR DUANE: I said it almost 5 feels like this question is a setup -- a good 6 setup, actually. I think when my colleague 7 from the Hudson Valley checks with his 8 clinics, they will say that I did very well by 9 them, we did very well by them, the state has 10 done very well by them. 11 We actually have made giant 12 progress in making sure that they provide care 13 to people. We have more to do, but we made -- 14 all of us together, the Executive, the 15 Assembly, the Senate, everyone -- we made 16 enormous progress. And I think that they will 17 be -- of course, it's never enough, is it? 18 But I think they'll be pleased. 19 SENATOR LARKIN: Mr. President, 20 no more questions. Just a comment. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Senator Larkin, on the bill. 23 SENATOR LARKIN: I resent someone 24 telling me -- if I could have Senator Duane's

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 attention. I resent someone questioning my 2 honesty and integrity on this floor and saying 3 that it's a setup. There is no setup. I pay 4 attention to the mail that I receive, and 5 these are questions that were asked of me. 6 It's my responsibility to ask you, 7 because your side of the aisle wouldn't have 8 open hearings where some of these questions 9 could have been asked. This is not a bad 10 question. We have a responsibility. 11 You talked about healthcare and 12 what you want to do, and I'm pleased that 13 you're proposing certain things. But I'm not 14 pleased when somebody tries to say someone is 15 trying to get me in a corner. There's no 16 corner in here unless you fail to do what 17 you're supposed to do. 18 Thank you, Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 20 you, Senator Larkin. 21 Senator Klein, why do you rise? 22 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, as 23 the bill has been under consideration for more 24 than two hours, I move to close debate under

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Rule 9, Section 3(D) of the Senate rules. 2 SENATOR WINNER: Slow roll call 3 on that motion. 4 SENATOR KLEIN: -- calls for a 5 show of hands. 6 SENATOR WINNER: Slow roll call. 7 SENATOR SALAND: Point of order, 8 please. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Saland, please state your point of 11 order. 12 SENATOR SALAND: My point of 13 order is by anybody's watch or anybody's 14 timetable, this debate was consumed in large 15 part by the responses provided by Senator 16 Duane. 17 As has been pointed out several 18 times during the course of this debate and 19 prior debates, there has been no opportunity 20 to freely and openly discuss the legislation 21 that is before us in the form of these budget 22 bills. As far as I know, there's only one 23 speaker left on the speaker's list, and that 24 speaker just coincidentally happens to be me.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 So I don't know if this is an 2 effort just to call off the debate, to muzzle 3 me, or to basically say we're going to attempt 4 to filibuster to keep this side of the aisle 5 from having the opportunity to ask the 6 questions that it could have asked had we had 7 the conference committees that everybody knows 8 were required. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator -- Senator Saland, the chair has ruled 11 your point out of order. 12 SENATOR WINNER: Point of order. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Winner, the chair has ruled Senator 15 Saland's point out of order. 16 SENATOR WINNER: I'm making a 17 point of order, Mr. President. 18 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, I 19 would ask for a roll call on the point of 20 order. 21 (To Senator Winner.) You may have 22 your point of order after my point of order. 23 I'm appealing the ruling of the 24 chair.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Saland, the question on the motion to 3 close the debate is nondebatable, according to 4 the Senate rules. 5 So we need to proceed with a vote 6 on Senator Klein's motion. 7 SENATOR WINNER: Point of order, 8 Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Winner, state your point. 11 SENATOR WINNER: Mr. President, 12 pursuant to the rules of the house, in order 13 to prevail on a motion for a previous 14 question, one must have a majority of the 15 votes of the members elected. Therefore, if 16 the Majority has 32 members here present to 17 close the motion, have a vote. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator Winner, pursuant to Rule 9, Section 20 3(D), a motion is decided by an affirmative 21 vote of the majority of Senators present, as 22 opposed to a majority of Senators elected. 23 Therefore, your point is not in order. 24 And the question is on Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Klein's motion to close debate under Rule 9, 2 Section 3(D). All those in favor of the 3 motion -- 4 SENATOR SALAND: Fast roll call, 5 please. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 7 Senator Saland has asked for a fast roll call. 8 Therefore, all Senators in agreement with 9 Senator Klein's motion to close the debate 10 should indicate so by raising their hand. 11 (Pause.) 12 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, 13 are you prepared to announce the roll? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Senator Saland, we are not at this time. 16 SENATOR SALAND: You are not. Is 17 there a time limit as to how long we have to 18 wait during which that roll call will be 19 taken? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Saland, there is not. 22 SENATOR SALAND: There is not. 23 Mr. President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Saland. 2 SENATOR SALAND: Let me recite 3 the same rule that you've been referring to. 4 It reads: "Such motion to close debate shall 5 not be amendable or debatable and shall be 6 immediately put." 7 It's been immediately put. We've 8 been standing here now or sitting here now for 9 some four or five minutes. I would think we 10 should have the roll call announced and we 11 should get on with dealing with the bill. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 13 Senator Saland, your comments will be taken 14 under advisement. 15 The Secretary will announce the 16 results. 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 31. Nays, 18 30. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 20 motion is approved, and debate is closed. 21 The Secretary will read the last 22 section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 24 act shall take effect immediately.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR YOUNG: Slow roll call. 2 SENATOR WINNER: Slow roll call. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: A slow 4 roll call has been requested. The Secretary 5 will -- 6 SENATOR SALAND: Point of order. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 8 Senator Saland. 9 SENATOR SALAND: Could you please 10 tell me whose seat between Senator Smith and 11 Senator Onorato is vacant? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: That 13 would be mine. 14 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 16 Secretary will ring the bells and call the 17 roll slowly. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Adams. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Before 20 we proceed with the slow roll call, in order 21 so that we all may hear, I ask that we 22 continue to follow the practice of the last 23 several hours and we keep conversations to a 24 minimum. Anyone who feels that they need to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 have a conversation needs to take it outside 2 of the chamber. 3 The Secretary will call the roll 4 slowly. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Adams. 6 SENATOR ADAMS: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Addabbo. 8 SENATOR ADDABBO: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Alesi. 10 SENATOR ALESI: To explain my 11 vote. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 13 Senator Alesi, to explain his vote. 14 SENATOR ALESI: I appreciate the 15 hard work and effort that has gone into these 16 last few days, and that relates to both sides 17 of the aisle. 18 And I think that since we've come 19 this far, especially on a bill of such 20 significance and such importance that it deals 21 with the health and welfare of our citizens, 22 that it disturbs me that I haven't had the 23 ample time to hear debate. Because there 24 still appears to be a significant amount of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 opinions on both sides of the aisle, at least 2 on this side of the aisle, to have the 3 opportunity to express those opinions, 4 continue to ask questions, continue to make 5 sure that we're doing the best thing possible 6 when we're voting either for or against this 7 bill when it comes to serving the needs of our 8 citizenry. 9 I had intended to vote no on this 10 bill anyway, because with the amount of 11 information that I have had, I can't see where 12 it does the best service that our citizens and 13 taxpayers have come to expect. But in light 14 of the fact we have just been issued 15 technically, legally, correctly -- right? -- 16 nothing more than a gag order at this point 17 because we're now stymied in terms of 18 expressing our opinions and asking points of 19 view from those people that would have wanted 20 to share them if they had not had the gag 21 order imposed on them as well, that I can't in 22 good conscience vote in any way other than in 23 the negative. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Alesi will be recorded in the 2 negative. 3 The Secretary will continue. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator 5 Aubertine. 6 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bonacic. 8 SENATOR BONACIC: To explain my 9 vote, Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 11 Senator Bonacic, to explain his vote. 12 SENATOR BONACIC: You know, as a 13 Majority Senator for 10 years, I had five 14 counties and I had 11 hospitals in my -- 15 directly in my district or in my encatchment 16 area. And the profit margins in the rural 17 area of the hospitals were being squeezed. 18 And one of the things I was able to 19 do was to fill the gap sometimes with 20 discretionary Senate money. But even doing 21 that, I never caught up to try and put the 22 hospitals in the black. And I had the 23 experience of having three hospitals go 24 bankrupt.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 So I was never on the Health 2 Committee, but I became a health expert in 3 trying to save three hospitals from 4 bankruptcy: Ellenville, in Ulster County; 5 Margaretville, in Ulster County; and Sidney 6 Hospital, in Delaware County. 7 Then we went through this 8 commission, the Berger Commission, where we 9 were going make hospitals stronger. And those 10 that were weaker, we were going to have them 11 go away. And same with nursing homes. 12 Those rural hospitals started to 13 get a little stronger. And now we come along 14 and, with this budget, take out millions and 15 millions of dollars to set these rural 16 hospitals back. And again, I think it's a 17 case of misplaced priorities, and I would ask 18 the Majority to revisit this down the road. 19 I vote no. And I thank you, 20 Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 22 you, Senator Bonacic. 23 Senator Bonacic will be recorded in 24 the negative, and the Secretary will continue

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 to call the roll slowly. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Breslin. 3 SENATOR BRESLIN: Yes. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator 5 DeFrancisco. 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: To explain 7 my vote. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 9 Senator DeFrancisco, to explain his vote. 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: You know, 11 there's a couple of reasons to have debate on 12 the floor. One is definitely to get 13 clarification of issues that may be unclear, 14 to try to shed some light on an otherwise very 15 dark process. 16 Well, with the time we were 17 allotted -- actually, we could have been 18 allotted all day and that aspect of the 19 benefit of debate on the floor would never 20 have been realized because there were no 21 answers to the few very clear questions that 22 were asked. So that in and of itself is a 23 reason not to vote for the budget. 24 There's another reason not to vote

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 for this budget bill, and that is that debate 2 also informs the public of the various points 3 of view of people so that they're on record 4 and knowing where they stand on various 5 issues. And that's why this two-hour limit 6 was -- it's really a shame that this secretive 7 process by this group of people who now call 8 themselves the Majority that got into office 9 on reform agenda -- on reform agenda -- are 10 closing off debate on one of the biggest bills 11 and one of the most important bills. 12 So, you know, I know it seems to be 13 repetitive, but the bill is bad in process, 14 the bill is bad in substance. I vote no. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 16 Senator DeFrancisco will be recorded in the 17 negative. 18 The Secretary will continue. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Diaz. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Diaz, to explain his vote. 22 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, 23 Mr. Chairman. 24 I would like to vote yes. But also

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 I would like to say that we have two 2 conferences, Republican conference and the 3 Democratic conference. The two of us, ladies 4 and gentlemen, the two of us already have 5 decided. We already conferenced. That side 6 already has decided that they're going to vote 7 no, no matter what. This side has decided 8 we're going to vote yes. 9 But we are stalling and stalling 10 and talking and talking, repeating the same 11 question, the same question. And making 12 believe that anybody's going to change 13 anybody's mind. 14 Nobody's going to change anybody's 15 mind. The only thing that we're doing here by 16 extending the days, ladies and gentlemen and 17 people that are listening, each and every one 18 of us are collecting $160-plus every day that 19 we're here. So by your standing and standing 20 and standing and the session over yesterday, 21 you're all going to get $160 each, and we too. 22 I'm proposing, Mr. Chairman, that 23 because we love the state so much and we are 24 concerned with the fiscal crisis in this

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 state, that we all, we all reject, not -- not 2 one penny out of our per diem. Not to pay the 3 hotel, nothing. Nothing. Not to postpone the 4 payment; no payment at all for any one of us. 5 And then, ladies and gentlemen, we 6 could stay here tomorrow, Saturday, Sunday, so 7 you could show the world how much you love the 8 state. No payment. I would do it if you do 9 it. But then we can show how much we love the 10 state. 11 But you are voting no anyway. So 12 what is the show? Let's go. I'm voting yes. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Diaz will be recorded in the 15 affirmative. 16 The Secretary will continue. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Dilan. 18 SENATOR DILAN: Yes. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Duane. 20 SENATOR DUANE: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 22 SENATOR ESPADA: Yes. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Farley, to explain his vote. 2 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you. 3 Senator Diaz, Senator Breslin, 4 Senator McDonald, and myself agree with you. 5 We're going to -- any per diems we get, we're 6 going to reject. 7 (Laughter.) 8 SENATOR FARLEY: Let me just say 9 something on this. You know, many of these 10 budget bills are very serious. There's a lot 11 of grave concerns that we have. But, you 12 know, this is one bill that is really of grave 13 concern to almost everybody in here that has a 14 hospital. It's driving them close to 15 bankruptcy, if not into bankruptcy. 16 Healthcare, the most precious thing 17 we can do for our constituents, is in serious 18 jeopardy as a result of this budget bill. 19 I have to vote no on this one 20 because this really makes a difference for 21 every single person in this chamber and for 22 every constituent that you have, because our 23 hospitals and our healthcare system is in very 24 severe jeopardy as a result of what is

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 happening here in this budget. 2 I vote no. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Farley to be recorded in the negative. 5 The Secretary will continue. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Flanagan. 7 SENATOR FLANAGAN: To explain my 8 vote. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Flanagan, to explain his vote. 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. President, 12 thank you. To explain my vote. 13 You know, I listened to my 14 colleague Senator Diaz. I find it somewhat 15 ironic, when we're accused of stalling, that 16 you're the last person to walk into the room. 17 SENATOR DIAZ: I'm here. I'm 18 here. 19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: You're here 20 now. But for everyone who thinks we're making 21 believe -- 22 SENATOR DIAZ: -- and this -- 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Senator Diaz.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Flanagan, please continue 2 to explain your vote. 3 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you, 4 Mr. President. 5 No one's making believe. I think 6 this is a bad budget. I think this is a bad 7 budget bill that's before us. And frankly, if 8 there's debate and there's some consternation, 9 so be it. 10 I'm listening to Senator Hannon, 11 Senator LaValle inquire of Senator Duane. I'm 12 looking at my own district, $5.6 million in 13 cuts to the hospitals. I have to go back and 14 explain that with over $5 billion in Medicaid 15 funding coming, that they're still not going 16 to be able to make those hospitals whole. 17 And I'm looking at Senator Adams, 18 Senator Krueger, Senator Duane. Their numbers 19 are skyrocketing above the ones that affect my 20 district. 21 The fact that we're asking 22 questions is so that we can get some real 23 answers. And when Senator Hannon talks about 24 pools, we've now shifted how we're doing

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 everything. Everything is going to be 2 floating around in some pool of money, and 3 we're not sure how it's going to be getting to 4 the people who really need it. People can't 5 plan, they can't get ready for the future. 6 We're trying to get some real answers so we 7 can go back to our constituents and inform 8 them properly. This is not make-believe, this 9 is real life. 10 I vote no. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator Flanagan will be recorded in the 13 negative. 14 The Secretary will continue. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Foley. 16 SENATOR FOLEY: Aye. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator 18 Fuschillo. 19 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: To explain my 20 vote. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Senator Fuschillo, to explain his vote. 23 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: When you 24 spend the taxpayers' dollars and you ask them

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 for more and you ask them for money they don't 2 have, you have a right to debate and question. 3 And I think what's come out most in 4 the past couple of days when we've debated 5 this bills is what has not been known or told 6 to the public on how much you're raising their 7 taxes, on how much you're killing the 8 healthcare industry, on how much you're not 9 giving them property tax relief, and on and on 10 and on. 11 But when you're taking hundreds of 12 millions of dollars out of the healthcare 13 system -- and everybody should have the same 14 goal, to make our healthcare system open, 15 accessible, and affordable. Our government 16 certainly isn't open, and the budgetary 17 process that has gone on for the past couple 18 of months has shown that, how it's been taken 19 away from the people of New York State because 20 of one simple reason: You don't want them to 21 know what's in here. And that's why you shut 22 down the debate. 23 I want to know what Senator Saland 24 has to say about this budget. I've listened

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 to this for my 11 years on both sides of the 2 aisle. That's the process. 3 Now, I've had two hospitals, 4 Mr. President, that have gone bankrupt and 5 closed down in my district. I don't have 6 hospitals in my district anymore. They have 7 to go outside their district, their community, 8 to get the healthcare. And I wonder what's 9 going to happen when you take hundreds of 10 millions of dollars out of the healthcare 11 system to the existing hospitals. 12 I vote no. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Fuschillo to be recorded in the 15 negative. 16 The Secretary will continue. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Golden. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator Golden, to explain his vote. 20 SENATOR GOLDEN: Thank you, 21 Mr. President. 22 My mother is recovering from a 23 broken hip. She also has Alzheimer's. She 24 was in Lutheran Medical Hospital, moved across

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 to Augustana, which is a nursing facility, and 2 now she'll move home and hopefully we can get 3 home care. But that's not unusual for a lot 4 of our seniors across this great state. 5 And unfortunately this bill, this 6 bill going out today, this budget will impact 7 on seniors like my mother and others across 8 this great state. Looking at what it will do 9 to those in the City of New York, we're 10 talking about hundreds of millions of dollars. 11 We're talking about impacts in hospitals, 12 nursing homes, adult homes, assisted living 13 facilities, home care. We're talking about 14 teaching hospitals. We are talking across the 15 entire spectrum. 16 We could have done better. We 17 could have dealt with the structural deficit. 18 We did not. We played with that stimulus and 19 didn't do it the way it should have been done. 20 It's unfortunate that people will suffer. 21 People will suffer. 22 I vote no for this bill. I vote no 23 for the 19.5 million people of this great 24 state and 8.5 million of those people that

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 live in the City of New York. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator Golden will be recorded in the 4 negative. 5 The Secretary will continue. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Griffo. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 8 Senator Griffo, to explain his vote. 9 SENATOR GRIFFO: Thank you, 10 Mr. President. 11 Healthcare is so essential to every 12 individual who lives in this state. And when 13 you think about what is taking place here 14 today, this process we should be ashamed of. 15 The specter of secrecy that has surrounded 16 this budget process is unparalleled even for 17 Albany. 18 Thousands of pages put on our 19 desks, thousands of pages on the desk, in 20 front of the desk. And people are expected to 21 absorb all this and not to discuss, debate, 22 and to question what exists. Particularly 23 when upstate hospitals would suffer 24 significantly. Pools of money that exist

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 where nobody can specifically explain how or 2 why those pools will be distributed. 3 I have a number of hospitals who 4 have expressed their concern over what they're 5 going to be able to do as far as physician 6 retention and the delivery and the quality of 7 the services that they can provide to the 8 people of this state, particularly the people 9 that I represent. We need to deal with that. 10 We need to be able to question, to understand 11 that. 12 And to Senator Diaz's point, yes, 13 maybe somebody will become enlightened as a 14 result of this debate, somebody will truly get 15 it and become concerned and as a result of 16 that change their mind to do what's right and 17 to make a difference to try to ensure that 18 people are being taken care of, provided the 19 type and quality of healthcare that they 20 deserve regardless of where they live -- not 21 because a New York City troika of leadership 22 went behind closed doors and put something 23 together that now we can't even debate as 24 extensively as we should and could.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 So for that reason, Mr. President, 2 I vote no. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Griffo will be recorded in the 5 negative. 6 The Secretary will continue. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 9 Senator Hannon, to explain his vote. 10 SENATOR HANNON: Thank you, 11 Mr. President. 12 The major error committed by this 13 bill is the diversion of the stimulus money 14 away from healthcare, for which it is 15 appropriated by Congress, to other things. 16 That money gone means that all of this 17 shenanigans that goes on in this budget bill 18 have to be carried out. Unnecessarily. Seven 19 new pools. 20 In what could be best described as 21 a meandering response to a series of 22 questions, the Health chair said, "Well, we're 23 going to help with this pool, that pool." Not 24 once acknowledging that not a single hospital

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 is named in the bill. 2 You've been misled. You've been 3 told by the Executive, Oh, we'll take care of 4 you. Guess what? That's not going to happen. 5 I know from personal experience. 6 Hospitals with great needs serving very 7 special populations have been told that and 8 tried to get, absent language, help for those 9 hospitals. It doesn't happen. 10 Yes, there's a lot of money, but 11 you can't take it on faith. It ought to have 12 been here. That's why I'm voting no. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Hannon to be recorded in the negative. 15 The Secretary will continue. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Hassell-Thompson voting in the affirmative 18 earlier today. 19 Senator Huntley. 20 SENATOR HUNTLEY: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator C. 22 Johnson. 23 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Yes. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator O.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Johnson. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator Owen Johnson, to explain his vote. 4 SENATOR OWEN JOHNSON: Yes. You 5 know, there's an expression called "deja vu 6 all over again," colloquially spoken. Every 7 time we have budget problems, the hospitals 8 and the nursing homes are the first place they 9 look to cut and the first ones we have to 10 defend because our people need the services of 11 those hospitals in our districts. 12 I have two of the largest hospitals 13 in Suffolk County in my district. They're 14 always on the borderline of going broke, but 15 they're not going to. Although several of 16 them did go broke some decades ago. We can't 17 let that happen. 18 So I think that it's pretty obvious 19 that this budget in many respects is 20 defective, and primarily this is one we have 21 to defend and we have to get that money 22 flowing back to those hospitals. 23 Thank you. I vote no. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Owen Johnson to be recorded in the 2 negative. 3 The Secretary will continue. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Klein. 5 SENATOR KLEIN: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator L. 7 Krueger. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 9 Senator Liz Krueger, to explain her vote. 10 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you 11 very much. 12 I am going to be voting yes on this 13 bill. And in fact, my district has an 14 enormous number of hospitals -- it's my 15 largest industry -- and I have heard from them 16 all, and I have talked to them all. And yes, 17 we're making some cuts. 18 But I have sat here for many years 19 listening to my colleagues on the other side 20 of the aisle complain about New York State 21 expenses in Medicaid, and I have done research 22 showing that in fact we do have one of the 23 more expensive states for Medicaid programs. 24 And so I believe that we did need

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 to reform the system and that we did need to 2 use our money more efficiently and more 3 effectively, because the important measure and 4 outcome of any changes we make this year will 5 be what will be health outcomes of 6 New Yorkers. 7 Because this isn't an issue of 8 which hospital; they're all sharing pain. But 9 we have to focus in a tough economic time on 10 using the money most effectively to preserve 11 the health of all New Yorkers. 12 And so I'm proud that in this bill 13 we restored 69 percent of the Governor's 14 proposed cuts to hospitals. And we assured 15 that there was 40 percent more money than 16 originally proposed for suburban and upstate 17 hospitals. And we helped protect public 18 hospitals. And we increased the funds for 19 clinics. And we have a $75 million transition 20 funding pool to address some of the concerns 21 that were raised on the floor today. 22 And we keep our commitment to the 23 HEAL program coming out of the Berger 24 Commission to provide $370 million in capital

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 and operating support for the communities who 2 may have been impacted by the Berger 3 Commission. And we restored 43 percent of the 4 Governor's cuts to nursing homes. And we gave 5 them more time to work with us to figure out a 6 better model, and a 60 percent restoration for 7 home care. And again, more time to work 8 together as a state to come up with a model. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Krueger, how do you vote? 11 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I vote yes, 12 Mr. President. Thank you. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Liz Krueger to be recorded in the 15 affirmative. 16 The Secretary will continue. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator C. 18 Kruger. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 20 Senator Carl Kruger, to explain his vote. 21 SENATOR KRUGER: Thank you, 22 Mr. President. To explain my vote. 23 Firstly, I vote yes on this bill. 24 And just to digress for a moment, I

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 assume that all of my colleagues realize that 2 since 2007 we've had the pleasure in this 3 house of passing an on-time budget. Well, it 4 costs us in excess of $4 million a day for 5 every day that this budget is late. And the 6 Assembly passed this year's budget after 7 10 hours of spirited debate. 8 I would like to remind everyone, 9 while we talk about how much money -- we are 10 in a deficit environment and how much money we 11 are shortchanging those that desperately need 12 our help, our conversation here for each day 13 that it takes brings us further down that pike 14 in excess of $4 million you. 15 Thank you, Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator Carl Kruger to be recorded in the 18 affirmative. 19 The Secretary will continue. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lanza. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Senator Lanza, to explain his vote. 23 SENATOR LANZA: Thank you, 24 Mr. President.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 I'm going to read a quote from a 2 newspaper. It says: "Most legislators, let 3 alone the public, have no idea how this 4 spending plan was put together. It was one of 5 the most secretive deals ever concocted in 6 Albany, done by three downstate Democrats 7 working behind closed doors. It locked out 8 Republicans and back-pedaled on budget 9 reform that had been made in recent years." 10 And that was before today. Let's 11 see what they say tomorrow -- as I listen to 12 my good friend Senator Valesky, someone who's 13 touted himself as a leader for reform, sound 14 like a technocrat reading provisions in rules 15 in order to quell this chamber. 16 You know what? There haven't been 17 conference committees. This has been done in 18 secret. This is our opportunity to explain to 19 the people of New York why they ought to be 20 shackled with the largest tax increase in the 21 history of this state. 22 Senator Kruger, if you wanted an 23 on-time budget, you had the power to present 24 this budget last week or the week before or

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 three weeks ago in a way that would have 2 allowed us to have a public vetting of the 3 process and of the result. So it is because 4 of your lack of leadership on that side of the 5 aisle that we are here discussing a late 6 budget. 7 I have to tell you, Senator Kruger, 8 you said that this was an historic moment. 9 You're right. This is an historically bad 10 moment for the people of this state. I have 11 to go back home -- Senator Krueger, Liz 12 Krueger, you talked about hospitals in your 13 district. We have 500,000 people on Staten 14 Island; only two hospitals. Not a single 15 public health hospital, as you're afforded in 16 Manhattan and in the other four boroughs. 17 One of those hospitals is on the 18 brink, and in this budget, your budget, 19 they're being cut $1 million. You know where 20 the money is going, Senator Krueger? It's 21 going to your district. It's going to the 22 wealthy hospitals in Manhattan. 23 To shut down debate I think at this 24 point is a disgrace. The people of Staten

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Island should hear why you on that side of the 2 aisle are putting one of their hospitals on 3 the brink of closure. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 5 Senator Lanza, how do you vote? 6 SENATOR LANZA: I vote no. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 8 Senator Lanza to be recorded in the negative. 9 The Secretary will continue. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator Larkin, to explain his vote. 13 SENATOR LARKIN: You know, 14 yesterday we had ten cadets from West Point 15 here, and we were talking to them about 16 democracy and how it works. And then today, 17 Senator Saland wants to get up and ask some 18 questions, and we shut him off. We're going 19 to send these young men all over the world to 20 teach democracy. Well, if they were here 21 today, they would have seen democracy absent. 22 This bill -- somebody on the other 23 side of the aisle asked a question outside and 24 it said, "Why are you asking so many

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 questions?" I didn't hear the full answer, 2 but part of it was because they don't want to 3 explain it to us. 4 It's just like some of my 5 colleagues have said, we cut down enough trees 6 with this paperwork, but we've done nothing to 7 inform the public. 8 Senator Duane took objection to my 9 questioning him with regard to tricks. 10 There's no tricks. The trick is on that side 11 of the aisle and on the second floor and the 12 other part of this building, when you did it 13 all in secrecy. If you'd done it out in the 14 open, people would have seen what you were 15 doing. 16 In 2007 we said we're not going to 17 do it anymore. You folks on that side of the 18 aisle now were big, big for it, pounding the 19 drums for it. You got it. You don't know how 20 to use it. You just want to tell the public 21 believe us, believe us, believe us. 22 I asked the question three or four 23 times at meetings: How much stimulus money do 24 we have? How much stimulus money do we have

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 for health? I'm told it's in the bill. Well, 2 I've read some of the bills and I've listened 3 to talk outside by people from Congress, and 4 I've added up the number. The Governor says 5 we got 25, Shelly says 25, Malcolm says 25. 6 Schumer says 25. Gillibrand says 25. Add 7 these numbers up, they may be closer to 35. 8 What are you ashamed of? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Larkin, how do you vote? 11 SENATOR LARKIN: I vote no. I'm 12 ashamed. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Larkin to be recorded in the negative. 15 The Secretary will continue. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 18 Senator LaValle, to explain his vote. 19 SENATOR LaVALLE: To explain my 20 vote. 21 This morning we started our 22 deliberations with great collegiality, great 23 spirit. It's interesting how in a few hours 24 it evaporated.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 I would hope that on subsequent 2 bills that all of the members who were sent 3 here and elected by 300-or-more-thousand 4 people will be allowed to represent the 5 frustrations, the hopes of the people that we 6 represent. I have never received more emails 7 and phone calls on a budget bill, on a budget, 8 than I have this year. 9 I heard Senator Liz Krueger talk 10 about all these percentages that we added. 11 All can I tell you, Senator Krueger, is that 12 when I looked at this and the impact on the 13 hospitals in the First Senate District, a 14 suburban district, I will tell you, it has a 15 great impact. 16 We saw a commercial or commercials 17 by the hospital industry of the family driving 18 with a little girl in the back who is sick, 19 and as they pulled up to the hospital, there 20 was a sign: "Closed." 21 You heard Senator Lanza. I could 22 tell you that the hospitals in my district are 23 hanging on by a thread. And I am representing 24 the people of my district by voting no.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator LaValle to be recorded in the 3 negative. 4 The Secretary will continue. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 7 Senator Leibell, to explain his vote. 8 SENATOR LEIBELL: Thank you, 9 Mr. President, to explain my no vote. 10 There was a point in time not too 11 long ago that this chamber was considered to 12 be among the greatest deliberative bodies on 13 earth, when there was a vast and free exchange 14 of thoughts and ideas. 15 This is in some sense a fitting 16 conclusion to this terrible budget process, 17 One that has been conducted in complete 18 secrecy. I daresay most of my colleagues on 19 the other side of the aisle knew as little as 20 we did about this process and about what was 21 in this budget. Three men in a room, three 22 Democrat men in a room, three Democrat men in 23 a room from New York City. 24 And now you want to shut down

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 debate. And you do this a day after the State 2 Comptroller, a Democrat, came out and said 3 this budget is wrong, this budget is flawed, 4 this budget is bad for the State of New York. 5 There's not a member in this 6 chamber that doesn't have today a hospital at 7 risk, a hospital at risk of closing in a state 8 with an aging population. We should be 9 debating these issues fully today, tomorrow, 10 the next day if necessary. 11 And Senator Lanza said it best of 12 all. If time is of an issue, this budget 13 could have been brought forth by this Majority 14 some time ago, some weeks ago, but you chose 15 not to do it. You choose now to shut down 16 debate. Not very American. 17 I vote no, Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator Leibell to be recorded in the 20 negative. 21 The Secretary will continue. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Senator Libous, to explain his vote.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, 2 Mr. President. 3 I rise to explain my vote with 4 great disappointment. I will be voting no on 5 this for two reasons. 6 The first reason is that I am 7 extremely disappointed that my colleagues from 8 the other side of the aisle chose to shut 9 debate down on an issue that is as important 10 as healthcare and access to healthcare to all 11 of the citizens of New York State. I've 12 listened to them over the years talk about the 13 importance of healthcare to their constituents 14 and the importance of access to healthcare. 15 But I'm disappointed because they will not 16 allow us to point out, as we have on this 17 floor, the inadequacies in this proposal, the 18 number of people -- and I speak for upstate 19 New York on this point -- that will have no 20 access to healthcare and have to reduce not 21 only the number of beds but the number of 22 employees in upstate areas. 23 Healthcare is an extremely critical 24 part of this budget. It is important to my

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 constituents in the Southern Tier and 2 throughout all of upstate New York. 3 And as pointed out by my colleagues 4 Senator Hannon and others today, there are 5 flaws in this budget, that money is not 6 flowing equally, as it has in the past, to all 7 facilities, And that particularly, as I speak 8 as an upstate representative, that the upstate 9 hospitals are being cheated and they're being 10 taxed. They're going to have to reduce the 11 number of beds, they're going to have to cut 12 employees. And that means less access to 13 healthcare for the citizens of New York. 14 Mr. President, I vote no. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 16 Senator Libous will be recorded in the 17 negative. 18 The Secretary will continue. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Little. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Little, to explain her vote. 22 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you, 23 Mr. President. 24 I too am surprised to be here today

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 and have a debate cut off. We're cutting off 2 debate on bills that spend more money than 3 this state has ever spent, at a time when 4 people in my district, and I am sure in yours, 5 are losing their jobs, are worried about how 6 they're going to get by, how they're going to 7 educate their children, just how they're going 8 to be able to provide. 9 This side of the aisle has 10 presented several options for other cuts, for 11 ways of funding, doing what's absolutely 12 necessary -- public protection, roads and 13 bridges, healthcare. 14 I represent an area larger than 15 Connecticut and Rhode Island in my Senate 16 district, and we have six hospitals left. 17 Their profitability, if ever, never reaches 18 more than 1 percent, and most of them are in 19 the red. We're putting them farther in the 20 red, and we're making it more difficult to 21 access emergency rooms and hospital care. 22 It is good to go for preventive 23 care, absolutely, more primary care. But 24 let's not focus and target hospitals and make

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 them a thing of the past in New York State. 2 I vote no. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Little will be recorded in the 5 negative. 6 The Secretary will continue. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator 8 Marcellino. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Marcellino, to explain his vote. 11 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you, 12 Mr. President. I rise to explain my vote. 13 Yesterday I commented on the 14 process and indicated the chaos that we are 15 in, and I say it again. This process is 16 chaotic. We are shutting down debate. We had 17 one speaker left who would have asked a few 18 questions, and we would have been voting by 19 now on the bill, would have been long gone, 20 probably would be in debate on the other bills 21 going in now. Instead, we're still explaining 22 our votes, and we're going to do it for a 23 while longer. 24 This is wrong. NYPIRG, Blair

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Horner of NYPIRG said the process that we've 2 been going through in the budget this year 3 stinks to high heaven. Other advocates for 4 reform have said this process leaves a lot to 5 question and leaves a lot to be desired. 6 This is not a good thing to do 7 here. We're not doing the right thing by the 8 public. We talked about -- Senator Duane, in 9 response to a question on nursing home cuts, 10 said that we restored 43 percent, we increased 11 spending by 43 percent over the proposed 12 budget. What he didn't say was that's a 13 57 percent overall cut in funding to the 14 nursing homes. Shouldn't they know that? 15 Shouldn't that be exposed? Shouldn't that be 16 talked about? Shouldn't that be debated? 17 I thought that's what we were here 18 to do, to express ideas and to debate 19 concepts. Instead, we shut off debate. 20 Instead, we don't reform. If this is reform, 21 you know, my God, where are we? 22 This is wrong, and I vote no on a 23 very, very bad bill. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Marcellino to be recorded in the 2 negative. 3 The Secretary will continue. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Maziarz, to explain his vote. 7 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you very 8 much, Mr. President. 9 I will associate my comments with 10 those of Senator Ken LaValle, who got up and 11 pointed out the fact that this morning the 12 Republican Conference extended a courtesy to 13 the Democratic Conference to allow a member 14 who was in distress to be able to be recorded 15 and to have her opinion count and matter here 16 today. 17 And I thought that we had taken at 18 least a little bit of a leap forward. So it's 19 sort of distressing that people want to hurry 20 up and get out of here. 21 I rather suspect, Mr. Chairman, 22 that now there will be other procedural moves 23 that will probably slow us down even more. 24 But I want to vote in the negative,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. Chairman, because Roswell Park Cancer 2 Institute -- which I think is one of the best 3 hospitals in all of New York State -- just 4 recently announced that they were laying off 5 30 members of the Public Employees Federation. 6 With the cuts that are contained in 7 this budget to Roswell Park, they will 8 probably have to lay off even more members. 9 So if you vote for this bill, you're voting to 10 lay off employees at Roswell Park Cancer 11 Institute. 12 I will also be voting in the 13 negative because by voting for this bill, by 14 voting for this bill you are voting to cut 15 hundreds of thousands of dollars in funding to 16 Golisano's Children's Hospital in Rochester. 17 Hundreds of thousands of dollars to Galisano's 18 Children's Hospital in Rochester will be cut 19 if you vote yes on this bill. 20 Mr. President, I'm not going to 21 vote to lay off employees at Roswell Park 22 Cancer Institute, and I'm not going to vote to 23 cut the funding to Galisano's Children's 24 Hospital. I vote in the negative.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Maziarz to be recorded in the 3 negative. 4 The Secretary will continue. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator McDonald. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 7 Senator McDonald, to explain his vote. 8 SENATOR McDONALD: Thank you, 9 Mr. President. 10 I sadly vote no too. In my 11 district, which is the Greater Capital Region, 12 I worry about my rural communities. These 13 urban hospitals stretch way beyond the cities 14 and streets that they serve immediately. It's 15 not been a good decade or decades for the 16 rural communities in upstate New York. A few 17 years ago they closed Mary McClellan Hospital 18 on the border of Vermont; it not only took in 19 New Yorkers but Vermonters. It took in 20 several tourists -- skiers, people visiting 21 our great, beautiful state. 22 Rural people in this state are the 23 poorest people in this state. They're the 24 ones who have the biggest problem, and that

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 problem is distance. Every place they go is a 2 problem. We tax their gas, we eliminate 3 hospitals to the point like they did with Mary 4 McClellan. We turn around and make it more 5 difficult for the urban hospitals to 6 relationship out there. 7 More people, more people in need, 8 more people who need our help in every aspect 9 are cut off. That's what I see here. I don't 10 like it. Now, I've been supportive of urban 11 areas, suburban areas. I grew up in an urban 12 area. That isn't the point. The point is 13 we're all New Yorkers. And every year I'm 14 here, the schism between the urban and the 15 rural gets greater. It's not fair. 16 I don't think it's intentional; I 17 think it's benign. They forgot about us. 18 They forgot about those people out there. I 19 don't think it's mean-spirited. Nevertheless, 20 it is what it is. 21 They can't tolerate it anymore. 22 Whether it be the cost of gasoline and 23 transportation or emergency services, schools 24 being cut or closed, or now hospitals, nursing

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 homes, you can't do this to these people. You 2 got to reconsider this. You got to come back. 3 There's no reason for us to have a spring 4 vacation. I don't want to say that to my 5 people when we go back with these type of 6 cuts. Please, come back here, work with us. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 8 Senator McDonald, how do you vote? 9 SENATOR McDONALD: I vote no. 10 Thank you. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator McDonald to be recorded in the 13 negative. 14 The Secretary will continue. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator 16 Monserrate. 17 SENATOR MONSERRATE: Aye. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator 19 Montgomery. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Montgomery, to explain her vote. 22 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, 23 Mr. President. First I want to say I think 24 you're doing a fine job serving as our

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 temporary president, and I'm very proud of the 2 work. 3 And of course I remember there were 4 many times when Senator Dean Skelos was 5 sitting in the chair that Senator Klein is 6 sitting in, and we had debate cut off because 7 we had gone over the rules. And so I'm very 8 amused. 9 And I'm also very saddened, because 10 we have reached a new low. I hear all of this 11 assaultive language and name-calling. This is 12 unfortunate. We have never had this. Every 13 single budget that has ever come before us, 14 there has been some pain. Sometimes I have 15 voted no. Most times I vote yes, because I 16 understand that we often have to make 17 difficult decisions. 18 And this year is no different, 19 except we had to make bigger decisions that 20 none of us wanted to make. 21 So I'm surprised. This takes me 22 aback. I've never heard this kind of 23 name-calling of members at each other in a 24 debate.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President, there are certainly 2 a number of aspects of this budget that are 3 very painful for my people. All of us love 4 our constituents, else we would not be here. 5 We would not spend the number of hours that we 6 do working on their behalf, in our districts 7 and here. 8 But this is one time that I'm going 9 to certainly proudly vote yes, because we have 10 to get this budget done so that the people in 11 our state can begin, our state itself can 12 begin to go forward and move beyond the point 13 that we are now. 14 I vote yes. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 16 Senator Montgomery will be recorded in the 17 affirmative. 18 The Secretary will continue. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Morahan. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Morahan, to explain his vote. 22 SENATOR MORAHAN: Thank you, 23 Mr. President. 24 I didn't plan to explain my vote

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 initially, but with the turn of events here 2 this afternoon in closing down debate, 3 especially closing down a debate on a budget 4 that was done in secret, no conference 5 committees, as outlined by the law, done by 6 three people from one part of the state -- 7 when debate and enlightenment would have been 8 most helpful for all of those who represent 9 our constituents as best we can. 10 And I hear Senator Liz Krueger 11 talking about all the good stuff in the 12 budget, in this particular bill. And that's 13 good, but I remarked that in the other house, 14 notwithstanding how good this bill is, 15 23 Democrat Assemblymembers voted against it. 16 Senator Valesky, two of your 17 Assemblypeople, Democrats, voted against this 18 budget. Senator Stachowski, four of your 19 Democrat Assemblypeople voted against this 20 great bill. And I can go on. Senator Foley, 21 same thing. You had two of your Democrat 22 Assemblypeople vote against this bill. 23 So maybe the bill isn't as great as 24 you have been told it is. But for a lot of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 other reasons that were outlined by my 2 colleagues, I'm casting my vote in the 3 negative. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 5 Senator Morahan to be recorded in the 6 negative. 7 The Secretary will continue. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nozzolio. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Nozzolio, to explain his vote. 11 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, 12 Mr. President. 13 I am deeply concerned with this 14 proposal, as the small rural hospitals are the 15 lifeblood of our community. By this 16 legislation, $460 million in seven pools of 17 money to be distributed later, without 18 criteria, without discussion. 19 First you ended the leaders' 20 meetings in any kind of open way, three men in 21 a room from New York City. Then you excluded 22 our Minority Leader from those meetings. Then 23 you all violated the law that you supported 24 just two years ago by refusing to allow any

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 open conference committee meetings so that 2 none of these proposals could be vetted 3 appropriately. Where's the transparency? 4 Where is the abiding by the law? 5 Senator Kruger, the chairman of the 6 Finance Committee, mentioned the Assembly. I 7 want to follow up on that. What are 23 8 Democrats in the Assembly telling us about 9 this proposal? They had the courage to stand 10 up to the Governor, they had the courage to 11 stand up to their leadership and vote against 12 this proposal. Maybe they debated it longer, 13 or maybe they had more knowledge about where 14 those processes went. 15 But when Bradley, Latimer, and 16 Paulin in Senator Oppenheimer's district voted 17 against this, when Christensen, Destito and 18 Magee voted against it from Senator Valesky's 19 district, four Assemblymen in Senator 20 Stachowski's district, and two Assemblymen in 21 Senator Foley's district, they are saying 22 something very clearly. We should be 23 listening. 24 And when you talk about the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Assembly, they at least had the courage to 2 engage in bipartisanship. I never thought I'd 3 hear the day when they did and this Senate did 4 not. 5 Mr. President, I vote nay. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 7 Senator Nozzolio to be recorded in the 8 negative. 9 The Secretary will continue. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Onorato. 11 SENATOR ONORATO: Yes. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator 13 Oppenheimer. 14 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Aye. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator Padavan, to explain his vote. 18 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, 19 Mr. President. 20 First, Senator Montgomery -- what 21 happened to you? I wanted you to know I love 22 you dearly, but you're wrong. 23 This side of the aisle, when it was 24 on that side of the aisle, would frequently

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 extend the debate on consent on important 2 issues. In my 36 years prior to this year, 3 that was done frequently. And it was done 4 because we were dealing with an important 5 issue. And I can't think of anything more 6 important than the budget and certainly this 7 part of it. So to say that we have cut off 8 debate willy-nilly is just wrong. 9 In Queens County we had two 10 hospitals within the last two months shut 11 town, St. John's Hospital and Mary Immaculate 12 Hospital. Full-service hospitals. Hundreds 13 of employees gone -- nurses, doctors. But 14 more importantly, all of the patients who used 15 those facilities are now impacting on other 16 hospitals in the county, a county of over 17 2 million people, where the population, the 18 bed ratio is very, very much out of skew when 19 you compare it to other parts of the city such 20 as Manhattan. Totally inadequate. 21 Now those other hospitals that 22 remain in that area, such as New York 23 Hospital-Queens, Flushing Hospital, Jamaica 24 Hospital, the heads of those facilities have

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 contacted me, and I assume they've contacted 2 other legislators from Queens and pointed out 3 the impact that those new demands are having 4 on them with already stretched resources. And 5 they're hurting. 6 And they're telling us directly 7 that if we pass the budget the way it is 8 before us, they will have to let people go. 9 They will have to curtail their services. So 10 they're getting a double-whammy. More people 11 coming to them because hospitals have shut 12 down, and fewer resources to do the job that 13 they were previously doing. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Senator Padavan, how do you vote? 16 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, I'll 17 vote no. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator Padavan to be recorded in the 20 negative. 21 The Secretary will continue. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Parker. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Senator Parker, to explain his vote.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR PARKER: Mr. President, 2 to explain my vote. 3 Senator Padavan, with all due 4 respect, you're actually wrong. And as my 5 grandmother said, the truth of the matter 6 ain't in ya if you're going to stand here and 7 say that the former Republican majority never 8 cut off debate. 9 The atrocities that the former 10 Republican majority committed against us are 11 well documented, well documented. In my two 12 minutes, I wouldn't even waste it to go 13 through all of the things that were done. So, 14 you know, to use Senator Saland's favorite 15 word, the chutzpah that's being shown today is 16 monumental. 17 That being said, I want to 18 congratulate Senator Carl Kruger and Senator 19 Thomas Duane for their hard work on this bill. 20 This is not a perfect bill, but nothing that 21 we do in this body is perfect. But we have 22 done the best that we could, given a 23 situation, Mr. President, that we have 24 inherited.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Let's get the record straight 2 again. This bad budget is the result of a bad 3 economy, a contracting economy that was 4 created under 43 years of Republican regime in 5 this Senate chamber, of another 12 years of 6 Republican regime in the second floor in the 7 Executive Chamber, and eight years of a 8 Republican regime that has flushed our economy 9 down the toilet with President Bush in 10 Washington. And here we are today trying to 11 make amends. 12 And I congratulate all my 13 colleagues who are voting for this and 14 understanding that we are taking the steps 15 forward to put us on a responsible and sure 16 footing for the future of our communities and 17 our state. 18 I'll be voting aye. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 20 Senator Parker to be recorded in the 21 affirmative. 22 The Secretary will continue. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Perkins. 24 SENATOR PERKINS: Aye.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator 2 Ranzenhofer. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Ranzenhofer, to explain his vote. 5 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: I wonder if 6 some of other freshman Senators are as amazed 7 as me listening to some of this debate here. 8 Listening to the fact that debate is being cut 9 off because, well, we did it to you or you did 10 it to me, it looks like children in the 11 playground who need adult supervision. It's 12 really quite embarrassing. 13 Two, again, I did not expect when I 14 came here to having most of the work done by 15 the Senate done in secret. I can't believe 16 that I'm standing here on the floor and saying 17 that, well, we're delaying this and it costs 18 $4 million a day -- when we were here for two 19 months and didn't do a damn thing. How much 20 money did that waste? 21 It's just amazing to me that 22 politics is being played with healthcare. And 23 I reference what was said before about the 24 effect of this on Roswell Park. When we were

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 talking about issues during the campaign last 2 year, Roswell Park and the Buffalo Medical 3 Campus is key to our area. Well, it's so key 4 that every single Assemblyman, Republican and 5 Democrat, representing Western New York voted 6 against this bill -- DelMonte and Schimminger, 7 in my district; Gabryszak, Hoyt, Schroeder, 8 Peoples. These are Assemblymen who would 9 always vote a healthcare budget, and didn't. 10 And the reason that they didn't is because 11 they realize how badly it hurts Roswell Park 12 and our area. 13 When the Governor himself says that 14 he doesn't think his own budget is balanced, 15 when the Comptroller says that the spending is 16 not sustainable, I can't stand here and vote 17 for a healthcare budget which is unbalanced 18 and which kills Western New York. So I will 19 vote no. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Ranzenhofer to be recorded in the 22 negative. 23 The Secretary will continue. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Robach.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Robach, to explain his vote. 3 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes, 4 Mr. President. You know, I talked a little 5 bit earlier on content. Other colleagues have 6 covered hospitals. We talked about GME, which 7 brings doctors, the imbalance of reimbursement 8 to upstate nursing homes to New York City. 9 That's enough. 10 But I have to tell you, you know, 11 the debate, this issue of the process is 12 really deplorable. My father used to say to 13 us when we were young and we did something 14 wrong and tried to defend the indefensible or 15 bad action: When you're in the hole, stop 16 digging. I suggest my colleagues on the other 17 side listen to my father. 18 I think it's a little bit of spin. 19 I don't know what happened in the past. I 20 think there's some inaccuracies. But if 21 that's what happened, that's wrong. We're 22 here now, today, on important stuff. This is 23 bad. You are the Majority. You are driving 24 the ship. This process, this outcome, is the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Titanic. You are the steerers of it, nothing 2 more, nothing less. 3 You leave me no choice but to vote 4 no on this bill. And I hope, rather than get 5 worse, we'll learn from it. Privately many of 6 you have told me this was a terrible process. 7 When I see you cutting off debate and doing 8 other things, I'm wondering, is this the road 9 we're going to continue on, or are we really 10 going to try to have a better process? 11 Because I've got to tell you, 12 forget about this moment of muscle-flexing and 13 arrogance. That might win now, but the 14 public, the media, and nobody over here is 15 going to go away. They're going to ask. 16 Someday you're going to have to answer the 17 question how we're spending that money, where 18 it went, where it goes. 19 We could have avoided this so 20 easily with a better process, and if people 21 just followed what they said they were going 22 to do before the election instead of doing 23 something after. And I think that's sad, 24 sincerely.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 So here we are, no time to put in 2 for our constituents, no area to answer the 3 question, no opportunity. And now it sounds 4 like people over there are upset, people over 5 here are upset. But the biggest losers, and 6 this is the shame, is the public. It's easy 7 to vote no on this one. 8 Thank you, Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Robach to be recorded in the negative. 11 The Secretary will continue. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Saland, to explain his vote. 15 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 16 Mr. President. 17 Mr. President, earlier this year 18 you may recall there was an exchange between 19 myself and Senator Smith in which I asked him 20 to yield and he refused. And I was quite 21 taken aback by it. It was something that was 22 unprecedented, a discourtesy which I had never 23 displayed to any member of this chamber. 24 To his credit, Senator Smith came

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 up to me, our Majority Leader, came up to me 2 afterwards and apologized and said that 3 wouldn't happen again. 4 Today I was effectively muzzled, a 5 discourtesy which I have never demonstrated 6 to, I believe, any colleague in this house, 7 either side of the aisle, whether it was as a 8 member on the floor or as a chair. 9 Nobody can contest the fact that 10 this has been the most secretive of secretive 11 processes. It's absolutely impossible. 12 There's a legitimate reason for the debate. 13 Two big issues, biggest issues, better than 14 60 percent of the budget, health and 15 education. Why would you want to stymie 16 debate on a health bill that takes up such a 17 large portion of our budget? 18 I have a hospital that just closed 19 the majority of its mental health beds and is 20 now being asked to take in excess of a 21 $2 million hit. The hospital will be gravely 22 threatened. 23 This is a horrible, horrible piece 24 of legislation. And what I condemn even more

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 is what you have done institutionally. You 2 have given up your legislative authority by 3 creating these pools and giving it to the 4 commissioner to determine how they shall 5 delegate it. You have weakened this 6 institution again. 7 And you sit there lamely when every 8 single one of these budget bills, including 9 this budget bill, had a number of Democrat 10 votes in opposition. In some instances, 20 or 11 more. Is there nobody among you who agrees 12 with your colleagues in the Assembly? Are you 13 marching in unison, holding hands, and taking 14 us to the brink and then -- 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 16 Senator Saland -- 17 SENATOR SALAND: -- perhaps we'll 18 all jump over together. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 20 Senator Saland, how do you vote? 21 SENATOR SALAND: I vote, quite 22 obviously, in the negative. And strongly 23 resent being muzzled in the fashion in which I 24 was muzzled by the leadership of this house.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Saland will be recorded in the 3 negative. 4 The Secretary will continue. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sampson. 6 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Savino. 8 Senator Savino. 9 SENATOR SAVINO: Yes. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator 11 Schneiderman. 12 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Serrano. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Senator Serrano, to explain his vote. 16 SENATOR SERRANO: Thank you, 17 Mr. President. 18 You know, all my colleagues know 19 that I don't get up every five minutes on the 20 floor here. And I think you all know what I'm 21 about, and I work hard to try to find 22 consensus and common ground. 23 And my appeal is that we try a 24 little bit to ratchet down some of the anger

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 in this chamber. I think it's important that 2 we try to find some common ground, and with 3 the firm understanding that this entire budget 4 is not an easy pill to swallow for anyone. I 5 mean, this is an unprecedented deficit of 6 $17 billion. Any way you slice it, it was not 7 going to be something that was going to be 8 easy for us to handle. 9 But I think it's important that we 10 try to find a little bit more civility, a 11 little bit more of an opportunity for us to 12 engage one another in debate, as we have over 13 these past few days, in a way that is a bit 14 more constructive and meaningful. 15 And as I sit here, I -- 16 fortunately, I have a picture here of my son. 17 And I miss him terribly. But I know that I'll 18 get back to him soon enough. I know this is 19 where I need to be. But looking at this 20 picture reminds me that we are not here to 21 fight one another, we're here to fight for our 22 children. And I hope that that's what we 23 engage with for the rest of this debate. 24 Thank you. I vote yes.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Serrano to be recorded in the 3 affirmative. 4 The Secretary will continue. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 7 Senator Seward, to explain his vote. 8 SENATOR SEWARD: Thank you, 9 Mr. President. 10 Building on the remarks of my 11 colleague Senator Serrano, I want to just 12 point out that when it comes to healthcare 13 issues, it's not a Republican issue, it's not 14 a Democrat issue, it's an issue that impacts 15 every single New Yorker, including Senator 16 Serrano's son and all of our families and 17 every single New Yorker. 18 And let's face it, when it comes to 19 our hospitals and our other healthcare 20 facilities across this state, they are really 21 the lifeline in our community for the people 22 who need medical care and attention. And 23 speaking for the rural areas, that's 24 particularly true, because very often when a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 hospital or nursing home goes out, it may be 2 40, 50 miles, sometimes more, before you come 3 to the next healthcare facility. 4 So the financial survival of 5 hospitals and healthcare facilities are 6 absolutely vital. These are very, very 7 important issues. 8 Now, just as our hospitals are 9 lifelines in our community, the federal 10 stimulus money -- now, I have some mixed 11 filings about what's going on down in 12 Washington, but it is what it is. And the 13 federal money can be very helpful to us over 14 the next 27 months. 15 And questions about how that money 16 is going to be used, particularly in the 17 healthcare area, billions of dollars coming 18 into New York to help us with our Medicaid and 19 other healthcare expenses -- where that money 20 is going, how it's being used, these are 21 legitimate questions. 22 There's a better way than hitting 23 our hospitals and healthcare facilities with a 24 gross receipts tax. We're going back to that?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 The so-called sick taxes? Cuts? Raising new 2 revenues, the HCRA surcharge increase that's 3 going to increase health insurance costs for 4 New Yorkers? If you go in and pay the bill 5 yourself, you're paying more right out of your 6 own pocket. There's got to be a better way. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 8 Senator Seward, how do you vote? 9 SENATOR SEWARD: I vote no. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 11 Senator Seward to be recorded in the negative. 12 The Secretary will continue. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Senator Skelos, to explain his vote. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, 17 Mr. President. 18 I rise in opposition to this bill. 19 And I should point out that when I 20 was sitting over there, Senator Montgomery, 21 there were many occasions where Senator Duane 22 asked that we extend the opportunity to speak, 23 and that was granted, especially when it was 24 on important issues.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 You know, earlier this morning 2 Senator Hassell-Thompson was here, and we 3 could have shut down the process in Albany 4 because you would not have had a sufficient 5 amount of votes to pass any of these bills. 6 And after a conversation with Senator Smith, 7 we both decided that that was not in the best 8 interest of the people of the State of 9 New York. 10 We rose above it, and right now 11 you're sinking below it, by not allowing us to 12 have the free speech that we should have. 13 This budget was negotiated behind 14 closed doors. You know it. You know it. 15 Senator Dilan, I didn't see you out here 16 debating the transportation issues yesterday, 17 because you probably had nothing to do with 18 it. 19 SENATOR DILAN: Excuse me, sir. 20 Point of order. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Senator Dilan, why do you rise? 23 SENATOR SKELOS: I'm explaining 24 my vote. You can explain yours --

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DILAN: Point of personal 2 privilege. Point of personal privilege. 3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Point of order. 4 Senator Skelos is explaining his vote, and I 5 don't believe a Senator can question at this 6 point. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 8 Senator Skelos, please continue to explain 9 your vote. 10 SENATOR DILAN: Point of personal 11 privilege. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 13 Senator Dilan, state your point of privilege. 14 SENATOR DILAN: I expect an 15 apology, sir. 16 SENATOR SKELOS: If I could 17 continue explaining my vote. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator Skelos, please explain your vote. 20 SENATOR SKELOS: Senator 21 Valesky -- 22 SENATOR DILAN: Idiot. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: -- I'd like to 24 read a quote from you. It was in the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Post-Standard, March 23, 2008. 2 "As an advocate of reform, and a 3 former member of the media, I believe openness 4 is more than just a cure for what ails us, 5 it's a core principle to incorporate into 6 every aspect of our democracy. Our leaders in 7 Albany seem to have lost sight of this 8 principle in recent decades." 9 Now, since you've become the vice 10 president pro tem of the Senate, I'd like to 11 read to you what the same paper is saying. 12 SENATOR DILAN: I expect an 13 apology. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: I apologize. 15 "In endorsing State Senator David 16 Valesky for a third term in October, this 17 paper labeled him a poster boy for reform of 18 state government. Well, one horrendously 19 dysfunctional budget process later, it's time 20 to strip Valesky of his poster-boy status and 21 put him up on the wall of Albany dysfunction 22 with the rest of his go-along, get-along 23 colleagues." 24 Unfortunately -- and many of the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 names of the Assembly Democrats that had the 2 courage to vote against some of these bills, 3 most of them have come from upstate 4 communities -- 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Skelos -- 7 SENATOR SKELOS: -- because they 8 understand -- 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Skelos, do -- 11 SENATOR SKELOS: Are you cutting 12 me off? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Skelos, I have extended you the 15 courtesy as the Minority Leader of this 16 house -- 17 SENATOR SKELOS: Well, I'd like, 18 as the Minority Leader -- 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: -- to 20 go well beyond the two-minute limit. 21 SENATOR SKELOS: I would like, as 22 the Minority Leader -- 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: I'm 24 asking you to explain your vote -- I'm asking

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 you how do you vote. 2 SENATOR SKELOS: -- to have an 3 opportunity to continue to be heard. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: I have 5 extended -- 6 SENATOR SKELOS: Are you calling 7 me out of order? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: I have 9 extended a courtesy to you as the leader of 10 the Minority Conference in this house to go 11 well past the two minutes and the two-minute 12 rule. I am asking you, how do you vote on the 13 bill that's before us? 14 SENATOR SKELOS: You're muzzling 15 my opportunity to speak -- 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: I'm 17 asking you how do you vote, Senator Skelos. 18 SENATOR SKELOS: -- on behalf of 19 this conference. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: I am 21 enforcing the rules of the house. How do you 22 vote on the bill before us? 23 SENATOR SKELOS: Is there an 24 opportunity at times for -- that I've extended

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 to members on your side of the aisle when I 2 was the deputy majority leader to extend the 3 opportunity as a courtesy to speak, whether it 4 was David Paterson -- 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Skelos, I have extended that courtesy 7 to you beyond other members who are here. 8 SENATOR SKELOS: -- you're not 9 allowing me to complete my thoughts. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: I am 11 asking you to explain your vote. 12 SENATOR SKELOS: I am. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: I'm 14 asking you to conclude the explanation of your 15 vote so that we can continue. We're well past 16 the rule. 17 SENATOR SKELOS: You're saying I 18 can continue to speak? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: I'm 20 asking how do you vote, Senator Skelos? 21 SENATOR SKELOS: I vote no. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Skelos to be recorded in the negative. 24 The Secretary will continue to call

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 the roll. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith, 3 aye. 4 Senator Squadron. 5 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator 7 Stachowski. 8 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky. 10 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator 12 Stewart-Cousins. 13 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Thompson. 15 SENATOR THOMPSON: To explain my 16 vote, please. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 18 Senator Thompson, to explain his vote. 19 SENATOR THOMPSON: I think it's 20 important -- I wasn't going to speak, but I 21 think it's important -- 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Smith, why do you rise? 24 SENATOR SMITH: Just a point of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 order for a moment, Mr. President. 2 Colleagues, I know that we've been 3 going through vigorous debate. I understand 4 that there is concern on everybody's side. 5 This morning Senator Skelos and his colleagues 6 extended an important privilege to us with 7 regard to one of our colleagues, and that is 8 going to help us finish this budget, whether 9 it is today or tomorrow. 10 Therefore, I think it's very 11 important that we still maintain that level of 12 civility in the house. And what I would like 13 to do is extend Senator Saland the opportunity 14 to finish his questions. And then if you, 15 through Robert's Rules, want to dispense with 16 the roll call, let him finish and then come 17 back and continue the roll call, or finish and 18 let him finish. 19 But we have to get back to where it 20 was this morning. And I understand that 21 tensions is high. We do want to finish this 22 off. We are all colleagues. And again, I 23 think this morning we were in the right place. 24 And I'm not saying that you can't

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 debate the bill and be aggressive and, you 2 know, have your point to be raised. But I do 3 want to make sure that we keep that modicum of 4 professionalism in this house. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Smith, are you moving to withdraw the 7 roll call? 8 Senator Skelos, why do you rise? 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Mr. President, 10 I'd just like to ask Senator Smith whether he 11 was explaining his vote or just extending a 12 courtesy to Senator Saland. And I'd love to 13 ask him whether it's an opportunity now on the 14 rest of the bills, when they come up, to waive 15 the rules concerning the time limits on debate 16 of the various bills. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 18 Senator Smith. 19 SENATOR SMITH: I will leave that 20 to the president who is presiding as the bills 21 are moving forward. 22 I just believe at this point, on 23 this particular matter, it is slightly moving 24 in the wrong direction. I think that we will

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 be able to make that decision as we move 2 forward. And I'm very open to accommodating. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Pursuant to Senator Smith's motion, the roll 5 call is withdrawn. 6 Calendar 133 is back before the 7 house on the controversial calendar. 8 And, Senator Saland, if you wish to 9 continue to debate Calendar 133, the floor is 10 yours. 11 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, 12 thank you. 13 And I would like to personally 14 extend my gratitude to the Majority Leader, 15 Senator Smith, for extending me that courtesy. 16 I fear we've gone so deeply into 17 the roll call at this point that it may render 18 moot and academic -- if Senator Duane would 19 care to yield, I'll be more than happy -- 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Duane, would you yield to Senator 22 Saland? 23 SENATOR DUANE: Yes, 24 Mr. President.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Duane yields, Senator Saland. 3 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 4 Senator Duane. 5 Senator Duane, in the brief 6 explanation I offered with regard to 7 explaining my vote, I made some comments about 8 the pools that have been created that I 9 believe were referred to earlier by Senator 10 Hannon. 11 In the past, there has been some 12 legislative direction, for lack of any other 13 term. Things have been lined out. Is there a 14 policy reason why we are giving this kind of 15 autonomy to the health commissioner? 16 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 17 Mr. President. The pools are, for the most 18 part, intended to ease transition during the 19 reform process. 20 SENATOR SALAND: If Senator Duane 21 would continue to yield. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Duane, do you continue to yield? 24 SENATOR DUANE: Yes,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 Senator yields. 4 SENATOR SALAND: Senator Duane, 5 taking that at face value, again, should not 6 the Legislature have a role in making those 7 determinations or be part of the process in 8 making those determinations? For example, at 9 times there are MOUs, memoranda of 10 understanding, that accompany these types of 11 pots or pools. Is there any memorandum of 12 understanding required here? 13 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 14 Mr. President, the Legislature actually has 15 put parameters around -- I'm assuming we're 16 talking about the -- not the GME/PEP Pool in 17 its entirety, because I don't think anyone 18 wants me to go through all of that again. But 19 if I may -- 20 SENATOR SALAND: I'm sorry, if 21 you'd suffer an interruption -- 22 SENATOR DUANE: If I may 23 finish -- may I -- 24 SENATOR SALAND: I cannot --

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DUANE: May I finish -- 2 SENATOR SALAND: I cannot hear. 3 SENATOR DUANE: -- finish, right? 4 Let me finish. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Duane, you will be allowed to finish. 7 I'm just asking you both if you could speak a 8 bit louder, and other members keep the noise 9 down to a minimum. Anyone who feels they have 10 to have a conversation can take it outside the 11 chamber. 12 Senator Duane, please finish the 13 answer to your question from Senator Saland. 14 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, 15 Mr. President. 16 So there's the -- and this is what 17 we have put parameters around legislatively, 18 $24.5 million for what are referred to as the 19 crown jewels of the academic medical centers. 20 The safety net hospitals are receiving a pool 21 of $25 million. The high-Medicaid hospitals 22 are receiving $24.2 million. And, you know, 23 the rural and the non-New York City 24 nonteaching hospitals have access to a pool of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 $16 million. 2 Actually, in fact, the bulk of 3 those pools, we do know where the money is 4 going to be going. And we know how much money 5 is going to be going to each of those places. 6 So I'm not quite sure -- the question, I 7 think, is not really accurate to the 8 situation. But . . . 9 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, 10 would Senator Duane continue to yield? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator Duane, do you continue to yield? 13 SENATOR DUANE: Yes, 14 Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 16 Senator Duane yields. 17 SENATOR SALAND: Senator Duane, 18 could you take me to the page and the lines to 19 which you're making reference in this budget 20 bill? 21 SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President, it 22 may take me a few minutes to get there. But 23 if you want, I can do that. Is that what I'm 24 being asked to do?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Saland has asked for you to identify 3 that particular point in the bill. 4 SENATOR DUANE: Okay. So it will 5 take me a little while, but I'll do that. 6 (Pause.) 7 SENATOR SALAND: To spare Senator 8 Duane having to pore through the bill to look 9 for the passage, what I'm really looking for 10 is the language that basically ensures the 11 role of the Legislature, the role that we've 12 had in the past in dealing with these funds. 13 If he could just identify it for me and 14 basically for this house, that certainly would 15 resolve one of the issues that I have. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator Duane. Senator Duane. Senator Duane, 18 Senator Saland has restated his question. 19 Would you care for him to repeat that question 20 in lieu of finding the specific reference in 21 the bill? 22 SENATOR DUANE: You know, I'm 23 often like a dog with a bone. Does that mean 24 you want me to stop pulling it out?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Saland, would you please restate your 3 question for Senator Duane? 4 SENATOR SALAND: What I was 5 asking of Senator Duane is to merely identify 6 the language that says that this institution 7 is not forgoing its ability to have control 8 over these pots, as in the past we have 9 frequently done with things such as 10 memorandums of understanding. Some type of 11 limiting language that enables us to say that 12 we still have the ability to be part of the 13 process when it comes to the distribution of 14 these dollars. 15 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 16 Mr. President. Of course, we haven't gotten 17 up to the Article VII part, so that's why it 18 wasn't on top of the pile. But I'm going to, 19 now that I've found that, even though -- is it 20 all right for me for go to Article VII even 21 though we're not on it yet? I don't want to 22 break any rules. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Nor do 24 I wish you to break any rules, Senator Duane.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DUANE: And that's why we 2 love you, Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Saland, is your question specifically 5 related to a bill that is not before the house 6 at this particular time? Or is it your 7 understanding that your question is related to 8 the bill that's on the floor? 9 SENATOR SALAND: I believe my 10 question is related to the bill. 11 The bill appropriates funds into 12 certain pools. I'm using the term that was 13 used by both you and Senator Hannon. My 14 question is to what extent we have been 15 willing to forgo our power, the institutional, 16 legislative institutional control over those 17 funds. Are they subject to a memorandum of 18 understanding? Are they subject to some 19 language limitations? 20 If you're telling me they're in 21 another bill -- 22 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 23 Mr. President. It's in here, and we're not up 24 to this. Although we did, just for

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 clarification -- and I guess -- I mean the 2 precedent sort of was set because we did allow 3 Senator Hannon to use the Article VII 4 language, and so -- but you are in charge, 5 Mr. President, so I am going to await your 6 ruling on whether or not I can reference the 7 Article VII language to answer the Senator's 8 question on the legislative language. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Duane, in order to provide as much 11 flexibility as possible, I would ask that you 12 answer Senator Saland's question. If that 13 means that you have to refer to a bill that is 14 scheduled to come before this house later 15 today, then we will give you the opportunity 16 to find that answer so that you can answer 17 Senator Saland's question at this time. 18 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, 19 Mr. President. Although it will take a moment 20 for me to actually go through it, but I'll 21 find it. 22 (Pause.) 23 SENATOR DUANE: Okay, 24 Mr. President, here we go. "Notwithstanding

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 any inconsistent provision of this section, 2 Section 2807-w of this article, or any other 3 contrary provision of law, and subject to the 4 availability of federal financial 5 participation for periods on and after May 1, 6 2009, funds as hereinafter described shall be 7 reserved and set aside and distributed in 8 accordance with the following" -- 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Duane -- 11 SENATOR DUANE: -- (a), for the 12 period May 1, 2009, through December 31, 2009, 13 payment shall be made as follows" -- 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Senator Duane. Senator Duane, can you just 16 identify the page that you are on so that 17 Senator Saland and others who would like to 18 follow can do so? 19 SENATOR DUANE: Oh, but 20 Mr. President, then, I mean -- we're not up to 21 that. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Duane, I would appreciate it if you 24 could identify where you are reading from.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Thank you. 2 SENATOR DUANE: If everyone goes 3 to -- it's S58B. I know where it is. I know. 4 I just want to say, Mr. President, our staff 5 is amazing and incredibly helpful, but I 6 happen to know exactly where this is once I 7 find the actual Article VII bill. And they do 8 too, but I do too. 9 Anyway, in S58B, if everyone would 10 turn to the bottom of page 89, starting at 11 5-b. And if they want to follow along, shall 12 I start over, Mr. President? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: You 14 can certainly pick up where you left off. 15 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, that 16 won't be necessary. I have the page in front 17 of me. 18 And let me just suggest this is 19 certainly not the appropriate time to engage 20 in the debate on the language that's in here, 21 I would concede that for our purposes. I 22 certainly would have more questions and I 23 assume, perhaps even more appropriately, 24 Senator Hannon may have questions as to the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 language that follows at page 90, in which 2 those different pools are enumerated. And I 3 don't wish to start, out of respect to all of 4 my colleagues and the very process, debating 5 what this language means in the bill that 6 isn't before us. 7 But I thank you for the courtesy of 8 identifying the subject area, and I believe 9 we'll have the opportunity to resume that 10 later today. 11 If I may, one more question -- 12 well, two questions. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Duane, do you continue to yield? 15 SENATOR DUANE: Absolutely, 16 Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 18 Senator Duane yields. 19 SENATOR SALAND: How much was 20 provided in last year's budget for graduate 21 medical education? Lump sum. 22 SENATOR DUANE: Oh, 23 Mr. President. 24 SENATOR SALAND: Perhaps one of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 the staff members that you just lauded 2 could -- 3 SENATOR DUANE: No, no. No, 4 Mr. President, I can get it myself. If I 5 can't, I know where to turn. But I know. So 6 if you'll all just wait a moment while I pull 7 that up. Although, I'm sorry, now my budget 8 bills are out of order. 9 SENATOR SALAND: Well, if I may, 10 Mr. President -- 11 SENATOR DUANE: That's okay. 12 Fine, fine, fine. No, no, no, I insist, 13 Mr. President -- 14 SENATOR SALAND: I don't want to 15 interrupt Senator Duane's train of thought -- 16 SENATOR DUANE: I insist. 17 SENATOR SALAND: If I may, while 18 he's looking for that number, if he could also 19 look for the number for this year's graduate 20 medical education expenditure. 21 SENATOR DUANE: Oh, I thought I 22 said that before, Mr. President, but I'll do 23 it again. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 you, Senator Duane. 2 SENATOR DUANE: Well, 3 Mr. President, last year -- and as I say, I'm 4 probably more up-to-date -- well, I'm going to 5 risk being less than perfect on this, but I'm 6 sure someone will jump to correct me if that's 7 the case. Last year, in the Hospital Indigent 8 Care Pools, there was $847 million. There 9 were other hospital programs, but I believe 10 that that is the -- I think that's what -- 11 which that is what we are using as part of 12 this year's changes, reforms. 13 However, on the Medicaid side, it's 14 $1.3 billion. Now, that used a base that was 15 set, I believe, in 1981, and then it trended 16 forward. And then it was distributed as a 17 part of the general Medicaid rates. 18 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 20 Senator Duane, would you pardon an 21 interruption from Senator Saland? 22 SENATOR SALAND: Senator Duane, 23 perhaps I wasn't clear in my question. What 24 I'm merely attempting to ascertain is not the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Bad Debt and Charity Pool, but what was spent 2 for graduate medical education in our last 3 fiscal year, the 2008-2009 year, and what 4 we're projecting to spend pursuant to this 5 budget in the 2009-2010 year. 6 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 7 Mr. President, is the Senator referring to the 8 Medicaid part or overall? 9 SENATOR SALAND: Either. 10 SENATOR DUANE: Well, through 11 you, Mr. President, I just gave what I 12 believed is a pretty accurate -- of the 13 Medicaid. But we actually have no way of 14 knowing, because each hospital makes their own 15 contract with insurance companies. And not 16 only do they not share with us, but they 17 actually can't share it with each other. 18 So I think what's imprecise is more 19 the -- it's just -- it would be impossible and 20 probably illegal if anybody could answer that 21 question if it was the total amount spent on 22 GME. Medicaid, yes, that's public. But the 23 other is -- for better or for worse, frankly. 24 Because, remember, we used to set the rates in

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 the state, but now as of -- I think it 2 happened before I came here; I'm not exactly 3 sure what year. But the hospitals, in an 4 artful way to say it, cut their own deals with 5 insurance companies for reimbursement. 6 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you. 7 Thank you, Mr. President. Mr. President, on 8 the bill. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Saland, on the bill. 11 SENATOR SALAND: I appreciate the 12 time and effort expended in response to my 13 questions by Senator Duane. 14 I was merely trying to determine 15 what the state spent for GME last year, what 16 it spent this year. I wasn't inquiring into 17 how it breaks down hospital by hospital, nor 18 attempting to invade the contractual processes 19 of any of those hospitals. 20 Mr. President, I said earlier the 21 two 800-pound gorillas of the budget are 22 always health and education. And we've 23 certainly had the good fortune for a dozen or 24 more years to have somebody who, quite

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 honestly, has been recognized nationally as an 2 expert on healthcare issues, and that's 3 Senator Hannon. 4 Not to take anything away from 5 whatever it is that Senator Duane may grow 6 into or evolve into, but the simple fact of 7 the matter is is that in one of the most 8 complicated areas that we deal with, we've 9 been fortunate to have a man who led and who 10 led well and who was always an integral part 11 of the budget process. 12 This process, as has been 13 acknowledged in every corner of the media 14 world, has been acknowledged in this chamber, 15 certainly has been woeful at best. And I'm 16 being as polite as I can be when I describe it 17 as woeful. These are the kinds of issues that 18 deserved an airing. This is a miniscule 19 issue, but when you're talking about spending 20 tens of billions of dollars in healthcare, 21 you're talking about spending tens of billions 22 of dollars in education, the bottom line is we 23 as an institution failed. Not merely the 24 product that we're presenting, but the process

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 by which we got there. 2 I've been in the Legislature for 3 some 29 years, in both houses. And yes, I'm 4 well familiar with the three men in a room. 5 But we attempted, over the course of the past 6 two or three years, in a bipartisan fashion -- 7 and certainly there were many members on the 8 other side of the aisle, now the Majority, who 9 were advocates for reform, as there were 10 members on this side of the aisle who were 11 advocates for reform to open up that process. 12 And things such as conference 13 committees, open leaders' meetings, certainly 14 provided some amount of transparency. Perhaps 15 not as much as all would have hoped for, but 16 certainly was a very strong beginning and a 17 productive beginning. 18 What we've seen today is what we 19 can reasonably expect to occur when we return 20 to the dark ages, when we return to the 21 periods in which members are effectively 22 frozen out of the process. I daresay that 23 there are few if any members in this Majority 24 who have had any input or input of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 significance into the production of this final 2 product, into the production particularly of 3 this healthcare budget. 4 Mr. President, I will thank you, I 5 will thank again the Senate Majority Leader, 6 Senator Smith, for affording me the 7 opportunity. My remarks might have been a 8 little more impassioned a half hour or so ago. 9 My concerns are not merely for the product, my 10 concerns are for the process. And my concerns 11 are that we do not abdicate as an institution, 12 regardless of who the majority party may be, 13 our authority, our ability to be 14 decision-makers and policymakers in any 15 process, particularly in the healthcare 16 process. 17 And I fear that what we have done 18 here, by abrogating our responsibility and our 19 authority -- abdicating, more appropriately -- 20 to the Commissioner of Health, we have in 21 effect left ourselves in a position where 22 we're going to have little or no say in how 23 those monies are going to ultimately wind up 24 being distributed. Unless, of course, I find

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 some memorandum of understanding language in 2 the Article VII bill. 3 Thank you. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 5 you, Senator Saland. 6 That concludes the debate on 7 Calendar 133. The Secretary will ring the 8 bells. 9 I'd ask the Secretary to return to 10 the roll call. We will open the roll and pick 11 up where we left off. 12 Those Senators who have not already 13 voted on Calendar Number 133 are asked to 14 return to the chamber to cast their vote. We 15 are returning to the slow roll call. 16 The Secretary will proceed. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Thompson. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator Thompson, to explain his vote. 20 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes, thank 21 you, Mr. President. 22 First, I want to say that I'm 23 thankful that the Majority Leader did come on 24 the floor to set, I think, a more balanced

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 tone. I know that in this chamber there's a 2 lot of tension because of not only the budget; 3 I must admit that we have a $17.5 billion 4 deficit. A deficit that many of us are 5 frustrated with, programs that many of us care 6 about, that we're struggling and scraping to 7 keep afloat. 8 And I can tell you, as someone 9 who's only been here two years, that I would 10 have loved to come into the majority and 11 really have all the bells and whistles many 12 others in the chamber have been able to enjoy. 13 But I also know that when people 14 are in the majority, whether you're on this 15 side of the aisle or the other side, it also 16 comes with a lot of headaches and 17 responsibility as well. I'm not naive to 18 believe that just because folks were in the 19 majority before, even on the best days and the 20 worst days, that they did not have to make 21 tough decisions. 22 I believe as well that while I 23 support this budget, that it's a painful 24 budget, but we have to get the budget passed.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 And every day that we wait, it does cost us 2 $4 million. 3 One of the issues that has come up 4 time and time again today is the issue of the 5 rules. The rules have been amended a little 6 bit. I think they will be further amended. 7 But I think we must be mindful of the fact 8 that whether we agree or disagree, that we 9 don't have to level personal attacks. 10 The issue of the time of the debate 11 has been traditionally two hours, and I think 12 we should continue that process. I believe in 13 Washington, I'm told, it's about two hours as 14 well. 15 And the rules that we govern under 16 today, while they are not perfect and while 17 they do need to be amended, we must be mindful 18 that we did not create those rules and we are 19 working to improve them. And it won't happen 20 overnight, but you can be certain that we will 21 work to improve them. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Thompson, how do you vote? 24 SENATOR THOMPSON: And so I vote

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 yes. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator Thompson to be recorded in the 4 affirmative. 5 The Secretary will continue. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Valesky. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Aye. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Volker, to explain his vote. 11 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 12 first of all, as somebody who has been here 13 for a lot of years, I'd like to start out by 14 what I consider clearing up something. 15 The Bureau of the Budget always 16 alleges there's some number that if we don't 17 pass the budget on time -- $4 million. We 18 have no idea whether that number means 19 anything. In fact, we've found out in the 20 past, when the budget was delayed, we actually 21 made money. 22 The truth is that's just -- that's 23 a full-fledged hoax. It comes out of the 24 Bureau of the Budget. It's, by the way, one

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 reason why some of us voted for Tom DiNapoli, 2 because he didn't have connections with Wall 3 Street and many of those people. I just want 4 to make that clear. 5 I'm voting against this budget 6 because it hurts my hospitals. I have four 7 public hospitals that are in some trouble. I 8 have a nursing home that may go out of 9 business because of that. There's a whole 10 series of problems that occur because of this 11 bill. 12 I would like to say, however -- and 13 I forgot to tell you this, Senator Young -- 14 I'm voting for one other person. And if I 15 might just digress for a second. 16 On this day in 2005, at the age of 17 70, Senator Patricia K. McGee passed away. 18 And I'd just like to make that statement and 19 kind of dedicate my day to Pat, who was 20 succeeded, of course, by the great Senator 21 Young. A wonderful person, very active in 22 healthcare. 23 And I'd just like to say that as I 24 vote no.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Volker to be recorded in the negative. 3 The Secretary will continue. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Winner. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Winner, to explain his vote. 7 SENATOR WINNER: Thank you, 8 Mr. President. 9 Mr. President, I want to associate 10 my remarks and explain my vote with comments 11 that have been made by Senator Hannon. In 12 particular, Senator Hannon pointed out so 13 effectively what was the real problem with 14 this particular bill, and that is the creation 15 of these pools and the uncertainty as to how 16 we're going to be funding our hospitals going 17 forward. 18 I have gotten information that a 19 number of my hospitals are going to be very 20 negatively impacted. But I am not comfortable 21 leaving all these millions of dollars over to 22 a health department that's headed by a 23 commissioner that, when the budget was 24 originally submitted, suggested that all of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 the cuts that he was proposing to these 2 hospitals wouldn't hurt them, that they were 3 fine, that they had plenty of money. 4 Now, I don't know if any of you 5 associate your remarks with those of the 6 health commissioner. But for someone who is 7 so out of touch with the financial conditions 8 of the hospitals in the State of New York to 9 be able to make that assertion that our 10 hospitals are in great state in the State of 11 New York, to me doesn't deserve to be handed a 12 bunch of money to make a determination to how 13 he's going to dole it out to help the 14 hospitals that he now has so little knowledge 15 as to how they're performing. 16 So, my colleagues, you know, to get 17 back to another point that's been made 18 earlier, there were 23 Democrats who had the 19 courage to vote against this bill, knowing 20 full well that it was a lousy proposal, many 21 of whom I think are good, solid 22 representatives that have good judgment. 23 I just think that we only need one 24 of you to follow that lead and to be able to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 do the right thing and go back and renegotiate 2 this budget so that we're not hurting the 3 hospitals and the healthcare industry in this 4 state but we actually could do some things 5 going forward that would be helpful. 6 This bill is not helpful to our 7 healthcare industry. It will close rural 8 hospitals, it will hurt public hospitals, it 9 will definitely be harmful to upstate New York 10 with regard to healthcare. It will limit 11 access, cost jobs, and be generally a very, 12 very large step backward in healthcare in New 13 York State. 14 I vote no. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 16 Senator Winner to be recorded in the negative. 17 The Secretary will continue. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Young. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 20 Senator Young, to explain her vote. 21 SENATOR YOUNG: Thank you, 22 Mr. President, to explain my vote. 23 I just want the people on the other 24 side of the aisle to understand that this is

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 devastating to rural healthcare, but 2 especially in Western New York. And we 3 already receive the lowest Medicaid rates in 4 the entire country in Western New York. 5 HANYS, the Hospital Association of 6 New York State, did an analysis on these 7 numbers that are included in this budget. And 8 what they said was that the hospitals in 9 Western New York are getting a higher 10 percentage of Medicaid cut than the rest of 11 this state. You are making a very dire 12 situation even worse. 13 And I'd like to echo the remarks of 14 my colleague Senator Winner, because I believe 15 that we will lose services in Western 16 New York. We already had 30 layoffs at 17 Roswell Park. But I also believe that if 18 these cuts go through that we will have 19 hospitals' doors close in Western New York. 20 One of my hospital administrators 21 called me during this debate. She was in a 22 panic. She said, "Please, do something about 23 this. We are losing $2 million from my 24 hospital. We already are in a deficit

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 situation. And we serve thousands and 2 thousands of people every single year, and the 3 next closest hospital is an hour away. What 4 are we to do?" 5 Well, I pose my question to you. 6 What are we to do about this? The right thing 7 to do is to vote no, and I vote no. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 9 Senator Young to be recorded in the negative. 10 And the Secretary will announce the 11 results. 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 32. Nays, 13 30. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 15 bill is passed. 16 Senator Klein. 17 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 18 can we please stand at ease for 15 minutes. I 19 know the Minority wants to have a brief 20 conference. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Senator Libous. 23 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, 24 Mr. President. There will be a brief Minority

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 conference in 315. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Minority conference in Room 315. 4 The Senate will stand at ease. 5 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 6 ease at 3:04 p.m.) 7 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened 8 at 3:45 p.m.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 10 Senator Klein. 11 SENATOR KLEIN: Thank you, Madam 12 President. Before we begin, I just want to 13 say a few words to my colleagues. 14 You know, I know tensions are high. 15 We've been here for quite some time on this 16 budget bill. But one thing I do want to get 17 across. I understand we're all politicians, 18 but I think we have to be statesmen first. 19 And politics is involved in some ways in all 20 of our lives; we all understand that. But it 21 shouldn't be acted out on the floor. 22 Clearly, if you're not happy about 23 the process, not happy about the budget, 24 that's certainly fair game here in the Senate.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 But of course, to cite once again Senate 2 Rule 9, Section 4(B), and I'll read it: 3 "Members are expected to uphold the highest 4 standards of civility in dealing with other 5 members. Debates should be dignified and 6 lacking in personal invective." If you look 7 up, in Webster's Dictionary, "personal 8 invective," it's personal criticism. 9 So again, as I said, criticizing 10 the process is one thing, criticizing the 11 specific merits of the legislation. But 12 criticizing individual members is off-limits, 13 and we intend to rule on that as such. 14 If we can now just take the active 15 controversial list out of order and go to 16 Calendar Number 135, Madam President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 18 The Secretary will read. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 135, substituted April 1, Assembly Budget 21 Bill, Assembly Print Number 156B, an act to 22 amend the State Finance Law. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 24 Read the last section.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Libous, why do you rise? 2 SENATOR LIBOUS: Explanation on 3 the bill, please. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 5 Senator Kruger, an explanation of the bill, 6 please. 7 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you, 8 Madam President. 9 At this time, for Calendar Number 10 135, I will call on Senator Schneiderman to 11 give an explanation. Thank you. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 13 Senator Schneiderman. 14 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 15 Madam President. Thank you, Chairman Kruger. 16 This is our Article VII bill, and 17 it is accompanied by an appropriation bill for 18 public protection and general government. 19 In the area of public protection, I 20 have to say this is overall a pretty rough 21 year. And I have spoken about this on various 22 occasions with my counterpart, the 23 distinguished former chair of the Codes 24 Committee, Senator Volker, and I know he will

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 speak to this. 2 People who think there are not cuts 3 in this budget should look at public 4 protection. There are some rough cuts in this 5 section of the budget. We are allocating a 6 little over $5.6 billion, which includes over 7 $40 million in federal stimulus money, but we 8 still have had to impose some serious cuts. 9 Among the most serious, and cuts 10 that I honestly and deeply regret, are a 11 $10 million cut to our local governments that 12 was to reimburse them for jails; $4.3 million 13 in cuts for local probation services; 14 $8.1 million in cuts for parole treatment 15 contracts. We are closing three prison camp 16 facilities, for a savings of $12.8 million. 17 We are closing several annexes, for savings of 18 $9.2 million. You know, this is a tough 19 budget time in the area of public protection. 20 We do have a significant amount of 21 money that is specifically designated for 22 criminal justice purposes under the American 23 Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, and we 24 are using that funding, and as in many areas

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 that's getting us, in part, through this very, 2 very difficult stretch as far as the budget of 3 the State of New York goes. 4 But I have to say, and this is the 5 Article VII bill, which includes a lot of 6 language where we have tried to accomplish 7 some good things even in spite of the 8 financial difficulties we face. 9 We have in this bill adopted a 10 system that will be fleshed out by our courts 11 and by the Department of Criminal Justice 12 Services for graduated sanctions for parole 13 violations. This is an excellent move as far 14 as public policy goes. 15 I served for 18 months on the 16 New York State Commission on Sentencing 17 Reform, and we accomplished a great deal and 18 learned a great deal in that process. One of 19 the things we learned, working with people at 20 the Vera Institute of Justice, was that 11 21 other states have adopted systems to save 22 money by implementing systems of graduated 23 parole sanctions. 24 We have over 5,000 people in our

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 state prisons today for technical parole 2 violations. They are not there because they 3 committed another crime, they are there 4 because, for example, they had to meet a 5 curfew or have a job as a condition of parole. 6 They violated that condition. We have little 7 recourse in New York now but to send them back 8 to state prison at a tremendous cost. And 9 also, I must add that in the view of most 10 criminal justice professionals, in many cases 11 that impedes someone's efforts to rehabilitate 12 themselves and to get themselves back on the 13 right road in life. 14 So we now are going to adopt a 15 system of graduated sanctions, provide for 16 alternatives to state prison for those people. 17 That's a great reform that we are enacting. 18 We have implemented in this bill -- 19 authorized, rather, in this bill the 20 imposition of caseload caps in the City of 21 New York -- I'm sorry we couldn't it do it for 22 the whole state, but at least we're taking 23 this important step -- for those who provide 24 indigent legal defense services.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 The First Department of the 2 Appellate Division imposed a rule to try and 3 limit the number of cases that indigent 4 defense attorneys were handling, because we 5 just weren't getting justice, we just weren't 6 getting adequate representation. And they 7 discovered, when they went through this 8 process, that the average indigent defense 9 attorney in the First Department was handling 10 656 cases per year. That's no way to run a 11 system. That's not a way to get adequate 12 legal representation. 13 This provision in this piece of 14 legislation provides for caseload caps. It is 15 a critical first step to ensuring that 16 everyone has representation in the State of 17 New York. 18 We have an innovative program in 19 this bill called the S.N.U.G. program, which 20 is based on other earlier programs in both 21 Boston and Chicago. It is an innovative way 22 to break into the cycle of gang-related 23 violence, using what's called the all-levers 24 approach to stopping gang violence. It is

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 something that is exactly the kind of 2 groundbreaking work that we hope to engage in 3 when we're turning a corner in America, as I 4 will discuss later, in terms of our attitude 5 towards criminal justice policy. It is tough 6 on crime, it is smart on crime, it will make 7 us a more efficient, safer, and more just 8 state. 9 We have expanded on the provisions 10 that are available now for medical parole. 11 Only for those who are physically or 12 congenitally debilitated, rendering them 13 incapable of posing any danger to society. 14 They're people who we're spending money to 15 incarcerate, we're spending a great deal of 16 money to treat, who really don't need to be in 17 the prison system, many of whom can't walk, 18 mostly cancer survivors. We're going to have 19 some of those people out of the system. It 20 will save us all money. They're not a threat 21 to society. 22 We also have expanded the Tuition 23 Reimbursement Program with this legislation, 24 which went to reimburse district attorneys to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 provide a small subsidy, for the people who go 2 into public service, with their law degrees. 3 We're expanding that now to cover those that 4 provide indigent, civil and criminal defense 5 services. 6 So these are some of the things 7 that we've done even in these difficult times, 8 even while we are making cuts, even while 9 there are programs, there are worthy programs 10 that we should be funding -- treatment 11 programs, experimental law enforcement 12 programs -- that we're not able to fund. 13 We also with this legislation -- 14 and I am very pleased and honored to have had 15 a chance to work on this. We are also with 16 this legislation eliminating finally, once and 17 for all, the harshest provisions that remain 18 of the Rockefeller drug laws. This is 19 something that many, many people in this 20 chamber and outside of this chamber have 21 worked on for many years. 22 And I know we're going to have a 23 discussion about the issue, but I would like 24 to start out by saying that the idea that the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Rockefeller drug laws have been eliminated, 2 the idea that we in this Legislature should do 3 nothing to correct a grievous wrong that we 4 inflicted on the people of the State of 5 New York, must be rejected. 6 Let me clarify for you before we 7 engage in this debate what the laws are today 8 and how we got where we are today. The people 9 who say do nothing -- and we've been getting 10 letters and complaints from people who 11 obviously haven't read the legislation, 12 obviously haven't read the report of the 13 Commission on Sentencing Reform, which laid 14 the groundwork for this legislation, saying: 15 "Do nothing. Do nothing. The Rockefeller 16 drug laws are gone, we're not locking up 17 people for possession." 18 Ladies and gentlemen, we now have 19 over 13,000 nonviolent drug offenders in our 20 state prisons today. In 2008, last year, we 21 admitted 5,191 people to New York State 22 prisons for nonviolent drug crimes, over 23 40 percent of those people for possession. So 24 anyone who's walking around saying, "Oh, we

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 don't lock people up just for possession 2 anymore, that part of the drug laws is gone," 3 are telling a lie. We are locking them up to 4 this day. 5 Who are the people who are in jail 6 under the Rockefeller drug laws? Well, I'll 7 tell you something about them. They're 8 primarily addicts. According to the 9 Department of Corrections, 82 percent of all 10 of the prisoners in our state prisons have 11 substance abuse problems. Eighty-two percent 12 of all the prisoners in our state prisons have 13 substance abuse problems, as identified by the 14 State Department of Corrections. 15 Virtually all prisoners who are in 16 for drug crimes have serious substance abuse 17 problems. In fact, there's a huge number of 18 people waiting in our prisons, 27 percent of 19 our prisoners are waiting to get into 20 treatment programs that are overbooked. 21 Who are the people who are in under 22 the Rockefeller drug laws? They're people 23 with drug problems. I'll tell you something 24 else about who they are. Ninety percent of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 them are black and Latino. Today. This is 2 not something in the past, this is not 3 something back in the Rockefeller era. Today 4 in the New York State prison system, 5 90 percent of the people in for these 6 nonviolent drug crimes are African-American 7 and Latino. 8 We know that 32 percent of the 9 population of the State of New York over the 10 age of 16 are African-American and Latino. 11 And we know from every study that has been 12 done that drug use is roughly the same across 13 racial lines. So we have 32 percent of the 14 population of the State of New York, and yet 15 90 percent of the people in under this set of 16 laws that were enacted by this Senate, by this 17 Legislature. 18 And if that doesn't bother you, if 19 it doesn't occur to you that maybe there's 20 something wrong here, then I think you've got 21 to take another look at these statutes and at 22 their sordid history. 23 This is not a matter of soft on 24 crime. This is a matter of smart on crime.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 This is a matter of making our state safer by 2 making our laws smarter and recognizing that 3 public safety and justice always walk 4 together. When the public does not have 5 confidence in our system of justice, it cannot 6 function effectively. 7 So I would suggest to you, ladies 8 and gentlemen, that the bill before us now 9 will make us a safer state, will make us a 10 more efficient state, and will make us a more 11 just state. 12 This law has three key elements. 13 Excuse me, I'm getting ahead of myself. This 14 bill has three key elements. First -- and 15 this is based on the work of the Commission on 16 Sentencing Reform -- is a judicial diversion 17 program to help people break out of the cycle 18 of criminality and drug abuse. 19 The judicial diversion program was 20 first proposed in the report of the Commission 21 on Sentencing Reform. It is the core of the 22 proposal that Governor Paterson made to us 23 earlier this year. And I think it's a 24 terrific program.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Second, this bill will reverse one 2 of the -- probably the worst aspect of the 3 Rockefeller drug laws and restore discretion 4 to judges, restore discretion to judges to 5 sentence nonviolent drug offenders. This is 6 something that is critical. It's been written 7 about for decades. And we are finally making 8 good on our promise to correct this injustice 9 today. 10 And third, this bill creates 11 enhanced penalties for major drug traffickers 12 and for those who would sell drugs to 13 children. 14 So this is, I believe, a balanced 15 approach. I am absolutely confident it is an 16 effective approach. A lot of people who are a 17 lot smarter than I am have spent a lot of time 18 and energy to craft this bill. And I hope you 19 will listen to me about what's in it before 20 you get up to say we should do nothing. 21 The Rockefeller drug laws, I think 22 it's important to note, enacted in 1973 were 23 enacted after Nelson Rockefeller in his State 24 of the State speech announced his intention to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 eliminate any option except life in prison for 2 anyone dealing hard drugs. But I think it is 3 instructive to read how Governor Rockefeller 4 began this whole process of enacting these 5 laws that we've been stuck with for decades. 6 He announced this by saying the 7 following -- this is the beginning. "I will 8 now turn," he says, "to another major program 9 recommendation." This is what he said. 10 "Virtually every poll of public concerns 11 documents that the number-one growing concern 12 of the American people is crime and drugs." 13 It all started with public opinion 14 polls, ladies and gentlemen. It all started 15 with an effort to pander to the public's 16 fears. 17 And I hope as we continue this 18 debate today we'll stick to the facts, we'll 19 look at the empirical evidence, we'll look at 20 the records of the Department of Corrections 21 and of other states and not resort again to 22 pandering to the public's fears. That's how 23 we got here in the first place. 24 The first part of this bill, the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 first part of this bill is the treatment 2 program, the judicial diversion program. I 3 commend this to you as a model that will be 4 used in other states after we enact it here. 5 The first step is a treatment evaluation. A 6 defendant comes in, the judge says "This guy 7 may be addicted" -- or the prosecutor or the 8 defense attorney. You have to -- before you 9 can get diverted from prison, you have to get 10 a treatment evaluation. 11 The treatment evaluation has to 12 report, among other things, the following 13 facts: Does this individual have a history of 14 substance abuse or dependence? And that 15 language is not made up, that comes from the 16 Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental 17 Disorders. This is the terminology used by 18 drug treatment and mental health 19 professionals. 20 Second, this treatment evaluation 21 has to determine that diversion into the drug 22 treatment programs that are available could 23 address the substance abuse problem. And, 24 three, make a recommendation as to the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 specific modality of treatment. 2 This is an approach that is 3 supported by every medical organization, every 4 drug treatment organization in the state. The 5 New York Academy of Medicine has held forums 6 on this, they have issued reports recommending 7 this. This is not something that is a 8 fly-by-night deal. 9 I have here one of the evaluation 10 forms that is used currently in drug courts 11 which serves as the model for this program. 12 This is not a casual thing. You're going to 13 get a thorough treatment evaluation of a 14 defendant, and then it goes to the judge. 15 The judge, after the treatment 16 evaluation, then has to make findings that, 17 first of all, the defendant has a history of 18 abuse; second of all, that the abuse problem 19 is a contributing factor to the criminality. 20 This is not just some guy who commits crimes 21 and is cool-headed and then gets high on the 22 weekends. It has to be a contributing factor 23 to the criminality. 24 Three, that the proposed treatment

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 can effectively address the 2 substance-dependence problem. 3 And four, the court has to find, 4 before you can divert anyone, that 5 institutional confinement is not necessary for 6 public safety. So you have to jump through 7 all the hoops of the evaluation, then you've 8 got to get the court to make these findings. 9 The district attorney can demand a 10 hearing at any time, submit evidence, and 11 object to the judge making any of these 12 findings. 13 This is a system that provides more 14 protections than I think anyone really -- as 15 many protections as anyone could want, to make 16 sure that we are finding the addicts, we are 17 finding the people with substance abuse 18 problems, and we are separating them out from 19 any other type of criminal. 20 This program is explicitly open 21 only to nonviolent offenders. If you have a 22 violent offense in your background, you're not 23 eligible. If you have a sex offense in your 24 background, you're not eligible. So we're

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 talking about the group of people who are most 2 in need of treatment and least appropriate for 3 prison, people whose substance abuse problems 4 are a contributing factor to their 5 criminality, they're not violent, they don't 6 commit sex crimes, and both the treatment 7 evaluator and a court have found that they can 8 benefit from the treatment that's available. 9 So they then move forward in the 10 process under the drug court model. And 11 page 127, Section 15-R of this bill, 12 explicitly directs the chief administrator of 13 the judge to direct these cases into drug 14 courts wherever possible. And those of you 15 who know -- and I know some of my colleagues 16 here today know well how effective drug courts 17 are. You have judges who have the expertise, 18 who have the resources, who have the staff to 19 provide the sort of intensive supervision that 20 we know for a fact, that the empirical 21 evidence shows, helps people kick the habit 22 and break of the cycle of drug use and 23 criminality. That is the first step of this 24 process.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Now, there is a requirement in this 2 bill that as you enter a diversion program you 3 plead guilty, except under very, very narrow 4 circumstances. There are exceptional 5 circumstances provided for. I want to speak 6 about this, because some of the commentary 7 related to the guilty plea by at least one 8 prosecutor in one daily newspaper has, in my 9 view, has been just this side of despicable. 10 And I want to comment in particular about this 11 because I was involved in negotiating this 12 section of the bill. 13 The language in the bill requires 14 that before there's an exception made for a 15 guilty plea that the court find that imposing 16 a guilty plea, requiring someone to plead 17 guilty is likely to result in severe 18 collateral consequences. 19 Now, in yesterday's New York Daily 20 News, a prosecutor commented on the severe 21 collateral consequences language, which is 22 language I negotiated with the Governor's 23 counsel and with Assembly counsel. And this 24 prosecutor said that this term is most often

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 used to protect illegal immigrants who face 2 deportation if convicted of a crime. 3 The term "immigration" doesn't 4 appear in this bill. There is nothing in this 5 bill to indicate that. And I can only 6 conclude from this statement and from the 7 attention given to this statement in that 8 newspaper that this is a last-ditch effort to 9 block the reform of these drug laws by going 10 back to what got us into this mess in the 11 first place, appealing to people's fears. 12 This is not about immigration, it 13 has nothing to do with immigration. And to 14 say, "Oh, block this now, because we're trying 15 to cut a better deal for immigrants than we 16 are for Americans" is disgraceful, it is 17 despicable, it is untrue. 18 Let me tell you what we're talking 19 about when we talk about severe collateral 20 consequences. We're talking about a 21 constitutional requirement imposed by a Court 22 of Appeals decision, People of the State of 23 New York v. Michael AC, 27NY2d 79, following a 24 line of cases from the United States Supreme

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Court that make it very clear that you cannot 2 induce someone or encourage someone to waive 3 their right to a trial by jury by providing an 4 alternative sentencing regime if you plead 5 guilty to the one that is available to you if 6 you exercise that constitutional right. 7 It is unlawful for us to enact a 8 law requiring a guilty plea without this 9 exception. So if anyone wants to get up and 10 complain about it, I suggest you take your 11 complaint to the Founding Fathers. Because 12 the New York State Court of Appeals has stated 13 very clearly: "A procedure which offers an 14 individual a reward for waiving a fundamental 15 constitutional right or imposes a harsher 16 penalty for asserting it may not be 17 sustained." 18 So we had to come up with a narrow 19 exception. We drafted it as narrowly as we 20 can. What are we talking about? What's a 21 possible severe collateral consequence? A 22 severe collateral consequence. You've got 23 someone maybe who's a single father, with two 24 kids who aren't healthy, whose entire life is

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 dependent on his electrician's license -- and 2 you lose an electrician's license in the State 3 of New York if you plead guilty to a drug 4 crime. That person would have the ability to 5 go to the judge and say, "Your Honor, I'm 6 facing severe collateral consequences." 7 And the judge, in the judge's 8 discretion, having heard the arguments from 9 the prosecutor and arguments from the defense, 10 would have the ability to say "In this case, 11 I'm making an exception to the guilty plea. 12 Do your allocution, take responsibility for 13 your crime, we'll have it on the record, and 14 we'll go forward." This is done in courts all 15 over America. 16 So I would urge you that the 17 exception to the guilty plea requirement is 18 something we're constitutionally required to 19 do. It's something that does not mention and 20 has nothing to do with immigration. And I 21 would urge all of you to condemn anyone who 22 wants to try and block any bill here by 23 pandering to people's fears, by pandering to 24 people's prejudices, to reject that sort of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 approach. 2 What's the next section of this 3 bill? The next section of this bill provides 4 discretion to judges. The next section of 5 this bill corrects one of the most egregious 6 wrongs of the Rockefeller drug laws. I read 7 to you from a statement from Supreme Court 8 Justice Seymour Rotker, who stated: "I've 9 said this before" -- this is when he had to 10 sentence someone to 4 1/2 to 9 years. His 11 hands were tied because of the provisions of 12 the Rockefeller drug laws; he could not make 13 an exception even though he found compelling 14 circumstances. 15 "I've said this before, this is not 16 the first time I've said it. We really have 17 to try to put more money up front to try to 18 help people who are involved in narcotics as 19 users, so-called user/sellers with regard to 20 this situation. But the bottom line is that I 21 am handcuffed as a matter of law, so I have to 22 do what the law says. I have to do so because 23 I cannot violate the law." 24 How many hundreds of statements

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 have we seen from judges over the last 30 2 years that they would have made an exception, 3 but the very provisions that Nelson 4 Rockefeller announced in 1973 to state his 5 intention that there would be no loopholes 6 have bound their hands. 7 So what we are doing now is in some 8 measure restoring discretion to our sentencing 9 judges. This bill reduces some mandatory 10 minimum sentences. It does not reduce any 11 maximum sentences. Every offender would face 12 the same level of punishment they face now. 13 But for first-time B, C, D drug offenders, 14 second-time C, D and E drug offenders, this 15 gives judges discretion to impose lesser 16 sentences upon a compelling showing. 17 You know, C offenders, second-time 18 C offenders, that's the most serious level of 19 offenders for whom we're restoring judicial 20 discretion. And I think it's important for 21 everyone here to recognize what a C offender 22 is. You are guilty of a C felony, nonviolent 23 narcotics felony, if you have an eighth of an 24 ounce or more of any narcotic drug in

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 aggregate weight. You could have two grains 2 of narcotics mixed in with a lot of baking 3 soda; that's a C felony. 4 So this doesn't say you get off, 5 this doesn't say you don't get prison time, 6 this just says judges have more discretion to 7 craft a sentence to the particular 8 circumstances of the case. 9 How else are we expanding judicial 10 discretion? We are providing, as we did in 11 the reforms of 2004 and 2005, for a limited 12 resentencing program. And I have to note that 13 the -- and I'm sure I'll hear from some of my 14 colleagues on the other side of the aisle that 15 there are some prosecutors who are writing in 16 saying, Don't change things, things are 17 perfect the way they are, we've got it just 18 right since we enacted the 2004-2005 reforms. 19 Well, every one of them opposed the 20 2004-2005 reforms, every one of those 21 prosecutors who's writing in now. And I 22 understand the desire of prosecutors to 23 maintain complete power over the system. No 24 one who has power likes to give it up, and few

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 are able to do so gracefully, as we all know 2 in this room. Prosecutors don't want to give 3 up power either. 4 But I will tell you that the 5 resentencing provision here is even tougher 6 than the resentencing provision in the 7 2004-2005 reforms. We have a series of 8 exclusions, people who are not able to apply 9 for resentencing who were able to apply under 10 the last round of reforms -- which we call the 11 Johnson exclusions -- which we've added in 12 here. Anyone with a violent felony within 13 10 years, a myriad of ineligible offenses, 14 including all sex offenses, you're not 15 eligible to apply. 16 In the 2004-2005 reforms on which 17 this set of resentencing guidelines are based, 18 a total of a little less than 500 people were 19 resentenced, 476 people were resentenced. A 20 larger number applied for resentencing, but 21 the courts screened out about a third. The 22 people who had the biggest potential to cause 23 problems, to cause harm, were screened out. 24 What was the result of that resentencing

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 provision which we emulate here today for 2 another group of offenders? The total, out of 3 the 476 people resentenced, we had a total of 4 less than 2 percent recidivism. 5 This is a staggeringly microscopic 6 recidivism rate. Not one violent crime. Not 7 one violent crime. We had a few people who 8 committed drug crimes, a few people fell off 9 the wagon, we had one DWI, and we had one 10 nonviolent property offense. Out of 476 11 people, that's an extraordinary success rate 12 for a group of felons. 13 So the resentencing provisions 14 worked last time, they're going to work this 15 time. They are in this bill. Again, we have 16 all the procedural protections you could want. 17 The prosecutor is free to oppose. Every 18 prosecutor who ever dealt with a defendant 19 who's eligible for resentencing is notified 20 and has a chance to submit evidence. The 21 courts will do, I believe, as they did in the 22 2004-2005 reforms and only let out the people 23 who are able to reintegrate into society. 24 This bill has a conditional ceiling

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 provision that is again something that is done 2 in many, many states. It provides that if you 3 successfully complete the diversion program -- 4 after jumping through all these hoops, getting 5 your evaluation, going through court -- if you 6 successfully complete this tough-love 7 diversion program run by a drug court, that 8 you can apply to the judge and the judge has 9 the discretion to say: "You know what, you're 10 doing so well, we're going to conditionally 11 seal your records." So we're going to say you 12 have a chance to apply for a job without 13 writing down "no, I had a drug crime." 14 If you screw up, ever, it's 15 unsealed. And it is never sealed from law 16 enforcement. It's only something to give 17 people a better chance to get back into the 18 workforce to make a life for themselves. It 19 is only a matter of justice. 20 It has been proven to work in 21 dozens of states -- including, interestingly 22 enough, a lot of states we consider very 23 conservative. You have to note that under the 24 Rockefeller drug laws we had far stricter

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 sentencing guidelines that any of the 2 so-called red states, and they have ceiling 3 and expungement statutes in places like 4 Mississippi, Oklahoma, Kentucky, Indiana. 5 This is not some radical move. 6 This is something that's getting us more in 7 line with the rest of the country. 8 Finally, we have additional 9 penalties for the worst sorts of offenders. 10 We have a kingpin statute for major 11 traffickers with operations that net 12 themselves more than $75,000 in a year or six 13 months, depending on the section of the 14 provision. 15 We also have a -- this drug 16 trafficker provision has a much higher minimum 17 and maximum sentence than the current laws. 18 It's something that has been requested by 19 prosecutors. And we were pleased to be able 20 to provide this to them in this legislation. 21 And we have an additional provision for sales 22 to a child, a person over 21 selling to a 23 person under 17, enhanced sentencing. Those 24 are two provisions that have been requested

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 we're happy to provide. 2 So in short, ladies and gentlemen, 3 we had a set of drug laws that didn't work. 4 We've had hundreds of thousands of people in 5 prison who didn't need to be there. It is 6 time to admit that our experiment in this 7 state -- and our national experiment, because 8 we're not alone here -- in mass incarceration 9 of people who do not need to be in prison has 10 failed; in particular, the mass incarceration 11 of African-American and Latino citizens. 12 I would urge you to take a look at 13 what's happened in the last 30 years in our 14 state and in this country. We now have 15 2.4 million people in prison in the United 16 States. We have 5 percent of the world's 17 population and 25 percent of the world's 18 prisoners. Bills like this are simply trying 19 to get us back in line with everyplace else in 20 the world. Even totalitarian societies in 21 this world now, none of them incarcerate 22 people at the rate we do. 23 And I would urge you that we're now 24 turning a corner in this country in a lot of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ways. Last year's election showed the public 2 is ready for change. I think it's time for us 3 to acknowledge that just incarcerating as many 4 poor black and Latino people as possible is 5 not an approach to public safety that is 6 sustainable, that is workable, or that is 7 fair. 8 Today, with this bill, we're 9 undoing one piece of that pattern of abusive 10 legislation that has led to three-strikes-and- 11 you're-out laws and other laws in other 12 states, to this travesty where we have 13 13 million children in this country with a 14 parent in prison. I mean, this is just an 15 unsustainable situation. 16 So I would urge all of you, keep 17 the big picture in mind, but also focus on the 18 empirical evidence. To the extent that anyone 19 wants to criticize our efforts at reform by 20 looking at the facts, by looking at what we 21 hear from DOCS, what we hear from the 22 treatment professionals, what we've learned 23 from the Sentencing Commission's work and 24 other work that has gone on in this state in

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 the last 20 years -- stick to the facts. 2 Let's try to stay away from Nelson 3 Rockefeller's propensity to look at public 4 opinion polls. Let's try to stay away from 5 prejudice. Let's try to stay away from 6 invective. 7 This is a sound, prudent program. 8 We've worked hard on it. It will work for the 9 people of the State of New York. And it will 10 make us a safer, more just, and more efficient 11 state. 12 So that is my summary of the 13 Article VII bill. I am sure there are no 14 questions or comments. But, Madam President, 15 if there are any, I'll be glad to respond. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 17 Thank you, Senator. 18 Senator Libous. 19 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Madam 20 President. 21 There are two amendments on this 22 bill. The first one I believe deals with our 23 prisons, by Senator Nozzolio, Senator Little 24 and myself and Senator McDonald. Could we

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 please ask that its reading be waived, and 2 could you please call on Senator Little. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 4 Yes, Senator Libous, I will do that. 5 The amendment is at the desk, the 6 reading is waived, and, Senator Little, you 7 may be heard on the amendment. 8 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you, Madam 9 President. 10 I speak today on this amendment 11 because I feel that it's necessary to return 12 to the law that we passed in 2005. And that 13 law in 2005 required a one-year notification 14 period to all local governments in the area 15 where a correctional facility was going to be 16 closed. It also required that the Department 17 of Corrections and all confer with other 18 agencies on the economic impact of a closure, 19 and it also said that we should consult with 20 the Department of Economic Development and 21 come up with a strategy. 22 The current budget eliminates that 23 one-year time span for a closure of a 24 facility. And I believe that that is harmful,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 truly harmful to the areas that I represent. 2 Four of the six counties that I represent are 3 host to 12 state correctional facilities. 4 These correctional facilities are within the 5 communities. They do provide jobs. I have 6 many, many people in my area who work within 7 those facilities. 8 Slated for closure is Camp 9 Gabriels, which is north of Saranac Lake in 10 the Town of Gabriels. The Town of Gabriels 11 has a population of a bit over 1500 people. 12 The second one is an annex in Washington 13 County for 200 inmates. 14 I know that we have a deficit. 15 We're all aware of that. Our Congressional 16 delegation and our Governor went to Washington 17 and really made a great case for us that we 18 had the biggest deficit, next to California, 19 of any. And I believe that we have received 20 one of the biggest amounts of stimulus money 21 for New York State. That stimulus money is 22 supposed to be used to stimulate the economy, 23 not to use that money to hurt the economy. 24 And it will hurt the economy in my area.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 And I will talk to you about Camp 2 Gabriels. Let me read the mission statement 3 of the Department of Corrections. The mission 4 statement of DOCS is "to enhance public safety 5 by providing appropriate treatment services in 6 safe and secure facilities that address the 7 needs of all inmates so that they can return 8 to their communities better prepared to lead 9 successful and crime-free lives." 10 The camps that are being closed are 11 minimum-security camps. And we are being told 12 that there are very few minimum-security 13 inmates in the prison system. Well, does that 14 mean that you are going to go directly from a 15 medium-security facility home, with no 16 reentry, with no preparation, with no 17 transitional help? I don't believe that 18 that's the way to do it. 19 The other thing is that we're told 20 that our inmate population is dropping, and I 21 agree. And it's appropriate, and certainly 22 the drug courts and drug rehabilitation has 23 helped that. However, when you are looking at 24 the drop, you are looking at a figure where

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 our prison facilities were 120-some percent 2 over capacity. I don't know about you, but in 3 a correctional dorm there are 60 inmates to 4 one correctional officer. I don't believe 5 that that's a safe ratio. 6 And now we have added the last 10 7 of those 60 are on the top bunk. In the 8 prison that I have in Malone, which is called 9 Upstate, and that's a very secure 10 maximum-security prison, you have two inmates 11 in a prison cell for 24 hours a day, for 12 months. They open up the gate, and they can 13 go out and exercise in the outside, caged-in 14 area. We even had an incident in that prison 15 where one inmate strangled the other inmate 16 because he wouldn't change the radio station. 17 And with the security, by the time the 18 correction officers got to him, he was dead. 19 I almost think that that's inhumane 20 for the inmates. So the idea that we are -- 21 you know, have all of these empty beds and all 22 of this empty capacity, I would suggest that 23 instead we make our prisons more humane and 24 utilize them, make them safer for the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 correction officers who work there. 2 Camp Gabriels, in Saranac Lake, has 3 no fence. I had the Commissioner of 4 Correction up there last July, and as we were 5 walking along, he said: "I can't believe I'm 6 seeing all of these inmates walking by, and 7 there is no correction officer in sight." And 8 I said to him, "And there's the road." 9 These inmates are learning how to 10 do a work program, to get their GED. They 11 have vocational training. The facility has a 12 its own sever and water treatment facility. 13 An inmate that's interested in getting that 14 kind of job works there, gets a one-year 15 certificate to go forward. 16 These are transitional facilities. 17 And the capacity at Gabriels is 300. When we 18 were there in July, it was 186. They're 19 dropping it even lower than that. 20 My point is we need the one-year 21 notification. Of the 136 people who work at 22 that facility, let's just say 30 of them leave 23 the area when they find another job. In a 24 town of 1500, that affects the school, the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 hospital that's nearby, the volunteer fire 2 department, the retail stores, the diners. It 3 affects the activity. 4 So it's almost like if you had a 5 community college in your district and 6 suddenly you got a three months' notice that 7 it was going to be closed. 8 This has a tremendous effect on our 9 area. And I am asking that we go back to what 10 we instituted in our legislation, that you 11 have an appropriate timeline when those 12 facilities are scheduled to be closed. And 13 that we truly look at them and look at how 14 they could be better utilized rather than 15 closed. 16 Thank you. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 18 Thank you, Senator Little. 19 Senator Libous. 20 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Madam 21 President. 22 I join my colleague Senator Little 23 on this amendment. I have, in the beautiful 24 county of Chenango, Camp Pharsalia, which has

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 been in existence for many, many years and has 2 been a tremendous asset to the community 3 there. 4 But before I talk about what the 5 economic impact is going to be and how the 6 inmates at Camp Pharsalia have contributed to 7 the community, I want to just touch on 8 something that changed this year that 9 disturbed me. 10 Last year we put into law, and I 11 believe it was supported by everyone in this 12 house, legislation that said that if you're 13 going to have a prison closure that you needed 14 to notify the employees one year in advance 15 before any closure could take place. I'm told 16 that the language was changed in this bill. 17 That's been stricken. And now Camp Pharsalia, 18 as with the other facilities that my 19 colleagues will talk about in this 20 amendment -- and of course the purpose of this 21 amendment is to keep them open -- they will 22 now close within the next 90 days. 23 That's disturbing, because at the 24 time everyone in this chamber was quite

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 amenable to making sure that we protected 2 those employees at these facilities and that 3 they were given opportunities to look for 4 other employment and maybe possibly move on to 5 other facilities during the course of that 6 upcoming year. 7 We did this with the mental health 8 system a number of years ago. When mental 9 health facilities and psychiatric facilities 10 were closing, legislation was passed in this 11 house, and I believe it was passed 12 unanimously, that basically said that they 13 would have a year's time before that facility 14 would close. 15 Having said that, I am extremely 16 disappointed that these facilities will be 17 closing, particularly Camp Pharsalia. I want 18 to talk about Camp Pharsalia. For a number of 19 years it has been a major contributor to the 20 community of Chenango County and surrounding 21 counties. And as a matter of fact, Madam 22 President, it has been a contributor to the 23 State of New York. 24 Many of you may not realize -- and

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 I'm sure it's the fact at these other camps 2 that are closing -- the inmates from Camp 3 Pharsalia not only painted churches, not only 4 did community service work in Chenango County 5 and Broome County, but did quite a bit of 6 forest preservation on state parkland for the 7 Parks Department of the State of New York and 8 for the Department of Environmental 9 Conservation. 10 As a matter of fact, we have 11 estimates -- and they may be a dollar on or 12 off -- but about $450,000 a year contributed 13 to helping reduce taxes in the State of 14 New York, because that's money that those two 15 departments would have had to spend to go out 16 and hire people to work in our forest lands 17 and certainly in our various parks 18 departments. So there is a benefit. 19 The other benefits were to 20 certainly the City of Norwich and the towns 21 and villages that are being strapped because 22 of financial restrictions. 23 And it's just very disturbing that 24 while this facility not only was able to help

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 the communities, but certainly the employees, 2 the men and women just like any other 3 New Yorker, who are raising families, putting 4 food on the table, trying to make ends meet in 5 these very difficult times -- and we know that 6 they are difficult times -- putting their kids 7 through school, are going to lose their jobs. 8 That's extremely disturbing. 9 Yes, they'll say that, well, they 10 can transfer somewhere else. That's not 11 always an easy thing to do. But I guess in 12 this case, if this amendment does not pass, 13 they'll have to deal with that. 14 I am disappointed, Madam President, 15 that these facilities are slated for closure. 16 I know this house in the past, when other 17 Governors -- both Republican and Democrat, by 18 the way -- had proposed closure, that this 19 house came to the aid of these facilities that 20 we're talking about and saved the employment, 21 saved the value to the community. I hope that 22 we can do that again. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 24 Senator Nozzolio.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, 2 Madam President. On the amendment. 3 It may be difficult for us to 4 recall the situation in New York State less 5 than a decade and a half ago. But let me take 6 a moment to remind you all that we had the 7 highest rate of violent crime of any other 8 state in the union, that we had thousands of 9 murders each year in New York City. We had 10 the most revolving door of a correctional 11 system, where after someone was arrested, 12 prosecuted and convicted, the policies of the 13 late 1980s and early 1990s put those convicted 14 violent criminals behind bars for the shortest 15 period of time, because those same inmates 16 were let out of jail free with a program 17 called work release. 18 Prosecutors across this state were 19 perplexed by seeing the person they had 20 convicted for a violent crime in a grocery 21 store a few weeks after their sentence because 22 they were let out on work release. This is 23 more than just an anecdote, this happened time 24 and again throughout New York State.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 What we have done, this 2 Legislature, in conjunction with working with 3 former Governor Pataki, was an establishment 4 of a zero tolerance for violence in New York 5 State. That zero tolerance for violence 6 established the end of work release for 7 violent felons. Violent felons were no longer 8 to get parole, and violent felons were to be 9 put behind bars for longer periods of time. 10 That required determination, but it resulted 11 in the largest decline in violent crime of any 12 state in the union in the history of America. 13 We had a success here. We were 14 pursuing violent crime, we were protecting our 15 citizens, we were establishing a policy, a 16 series of policies that ensured the integrity 17 of our streets and ensured the safety of our 18 citizens. 19 At the same time, that required 20 rightsizing of the correctional facility. 21 Senator Little, Senator Libous have both 22 discussed how their own facilities had a great 23 deal of pressure within them over the past 24 decade. In other words, correction officers

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 were having to have custodianship over violent 2 inmates in prisons that were never built to 3 house violent inmates. We had our prisons, 4 particularly the medium-correctional 5 facilities in our state, bursting at the 6 seams. 7 There was a riot in Mohawk a few 8 years ago that sent a clarion call to everyone 9 that the system needed to be rightsized, and 10 rightsized quickly. And that's what we did. 11 We built additional correctional 12 facilities, maximum-security facilities, that 13 could house and incarcerate violent criminals 14 in a more safe and secure way. We have 15 established annexes in a variety of medium 16 facilities that house those more violent 17 inmates. And at the same time, we took some 18 very important steps to end solitary 19 confinement for those who were sentenced that 20 were obviously deeply mentally ill. 21 We have made our jails safer and 22 more humane. We've made them safer for the 23 correction officers who walk the toughest law 24 enforcement beat in America. We've made them

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 safer for the correctional teachers and other 2 correctional personnel who work under very 3 stressful conditions within our prison system. 4 That pendulum went from one side, where it was 5 a disgrace, to the other side, where I believe 6 it's a system that we should be -- although it 7 has its problems, we can be proud of in 8 protecting our citizenry and ensuring a safe 9 working environment for our citizens, our 10 25,000 state employees who work in our prisons 11 across this state. 12 What Senator Little and Senator 13 Libous and our conference are very disturbed 14 about is the way that this budget totally 15 annihilates a transparent process that we 16 fought hard to achieve, where, when a prison 17 is to be closed, the least the Corrections 18 Department can do is establish a notification 19 requirement, Section 79-A, where the mandate 20 is that the state must provide notification of 21 its intention to close correctional facilities 22 at least a year ahead of time. And providing 23 notice to all local governments that that's to 24 be the case.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 I proudly authored that 2 legislation, and I'm proud that this body 3 aggressively supported it prior to any other 4 of those in this Legislature or even in the 5 Governor's office. We proudly supported this 6 legislation because we care about the 7 correction officers and other correctional 8 personnel who work under the most stressful of 9 conditions, whose decision to close the 10 facility changes their lives. The COs' 11 families don't move down the street, they have 12 to move to get jobs maybe 30, 40, 50 miles 13 away to be able to establish their lives and 14 continue working as correctional officers. 15 The notice provisions are simple, 16 they're direct, and they're important, because 17 we need to have notice when these policies are 18 changed. What this legislation does today, 19 this bill that Senator Schneiderman is putting 20 forward that has been basically, again, 21 negotiated behind closed doors, it sends a 22 clear signal that no longer does the state 23 believe in obeying the law of this state. 24 This notification requirement is a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 state law. It's a requirement. You've 2 eliminated that requirement with just simply a 3 push of a pen. If you can do it for those 4 three of the facilities that are to be closed, 5 you can do it for any item. And I believe 6 changing this law at this time does a 7 tremendous disservice to the correctional 8 personnel who are laboring very strongly under 9 very stressful times in our correctional 10 facilities. 11 There's also a question of 12 partisanship. You can't sugarcoat it. You 13 can't gloss over it. The decision was made to 14 close those correctional facilities in 15 Republican areas. Now, that's clear. That 16 there has been no demonstration, no 17 demonstrable assessment of the matrix of why 18 these were closed, why these units were 19 decided to be closed. Frankly, I think the 20 rhyme and reason is obvious and that it is 21 partisan. And to me, that's disturbing. 22 Remember, this is the same state 23 government, though -- back to the notice 24 requirement -- that tells the private sector

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 that if you're going to close a plant or a 2 business, a private business, that has a 3 certain level of employment and that level of 4 employment is very small, this state tells 5 private employers that you have to provide 6 notice to the communities and to the state 7 that you are going to be leaving. 8 That notice requirement is fine 9 when the state tells the private sector to do 10 it. Why shouldn't the state follow the laws 11 of this state and comply with the notification 12 requirements under the law that this body 13 passed, that many of you voted for, in favor 14 of, when it was established. 15 Lastly, Section 79-B in our 16 amendment provides for a reuse plan, a 17 requirement that the state, in partnership 18 with local government, establish appropriate 19 reuse plans for the correctional facilities 20 that are to be abandoned. That only makes 21 sense. Senator Libous said we had a template 22 for that with the closure of those mental 23 health facilities that were changed. We 24 should have that same type of procedure here.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 We have it in the reuse plan. 2 You are ignoring 79-A, and with the 3 notification requirement you are running 4 roughshod over 79-B, the reuse requirement. 5 And what is occurring? Three communities are 6 in effect jeopardized by this situation. 7 Madam President, that's why we're 8 proffering this amendment, and that's why 9 we're aggressively supporting it. 10 Thank you for the opportunity to 11 speak on its behalf. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 13 Thank you, Senator. 14 Senator McDonald, on the amendment. 15 SENATOR McDONALD: Madam 16 President, thank you. I'm speaking about the 17 correctional facilities and a lost opportunity 18 that we might be able to get back. 19 Approximately two years ago, I 20 requested the Department of Corrections, and 21 not too long ago I requested the commission 22 that was prepared statewide on consolidation 23 of services -- my concern was that my counties 24 and many counties across upstate New York are

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 being requested to expand their correctional 2 facilities, the state requesting them to add 3 on, improve, update county jails. 4 Legitimately so. These facilities need to be 5 updated and modernized in many, many cases. 6 What an opportunity to utilize 7 existing minimum-security prisons that are 8 being closed and the wonderful men and women 9 that work there as corrections officers and 10 civilian workers, instead of our local 11 counties being mandated to expand that 12 facility. 13 I think in terms of Rensselaer 14 County, one of my communities, approximately a 15 $60 million expenditure for an improvement of 16 a facility, where they have minimum-security 17 facilities close by and they can put their 18 prisoners in there on a per diem basis, much 19 like many communities do in different parts of 20 the country, and even federal prisoners coming 21 to state facilities. 22 What a great opportunity to show 23 the taxpayer that we will combine the services 24 without eliminating a local government for the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 first time, that the consolidation can start 2 at the top as well as the bottom. These are 3 the concerns I have. And the reuse 4 legislation would have enabled us to turn 5 around and pursue that further. 6 That's something we have to start 7 thinking about, working with these counties 8 where we mandate, in many cases, 90 percent of 9 their budgets and we keep on cutting their 10 money. And many of the mandated requirements 11 are legitimate, such as the county jail. What 12 a great opportunity to save my county the 13 capital expenditure money, the need to go out 14 and hire new professional people, when we 15 already have them on our staff, and to 16 continue the professional services of them and 17 at the same time serve the public. 18 And we should be doing more of 19 that. And I think we should be looking at 20 consolidation and reuse from a different 21 perspective. The perspective is that we 22 should be looking more at the top, as opposed 23 to the bottom. We've seen that with the local 24 governments. We bombard them with mandates,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 hidden taxes, yet we don't give them the tools 2 to provide the services that we also mandate. 3 So if we do anything and we 4 reinvigorate the legislation for reuse, we 5 should turn around and start working as the 6 Department of Corrections. Because the public 7 thinks a jail is a jail. It's a government 8 jail. It's not a state jail, it's not a 9 county jail. This is how we can solve some of 10 these problems and we can save money for the 11 taxpayers. 12 It's a very difficult issue. I 13 agree with my colleagues, and I'm happy to 14 support this amendment. 15 Thank you, Madam President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 17 Senator Saland, on the amendment. 18 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Madam 19 President. 20 Madam President and my colleagues, 21 on the amendment, if you look at the existing 22 language on page 10, which language is 23 replicated in the amendment, it basically sets 24 out the notification process in rather simple

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 terms. And what notification is about is 2 trying to avoid the trauma to both the 3 employee, to a community, and to try and 4 collaborate and coordinate the resources of 5 local government and state government, 6 including the Department of Economic 7 Development, to try and reduce the blow to the 8 community when there's a closure. 9 Well, in addition to the three 10 camps that are proposed not to get the benefit 11 of this one-year period -- and lord only knows 12 time is an ally in these situations -- the 13 three camps, as was noted, seem to have been 14 selected somewhat discriminatorily. 15 The bill also eliminates this 16 notice provision for annexes. There's no 17 sound policy reason I could think of for 18 eliminating it for annexes. I mean, the 19 annexes are a part of the system. Their 20 employees are entitled to the very same 21 notification. The families are every bit as 22 traumatized as anybody else would be when told 23 that they're about to lose their job and now 24 have 90 days to do something about it. The

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 community, again, has to try and see what they 2 can do to compensate in some fashion, working 3 collaboratively with DOCS and with Economic 4 Development to see if they can do something 5 about trying to somehow or other energize 6 their community and encourage some economic 7 alternatives. 8 So, Madam President, this bill does 9 more than pick on three camps. This bill 10 selectively chooses to deny this very 11 carefully crafted notification provision to 12 annexes as well. And I obviously rise in 13 support of the amendment. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 15 Thank you. 16 Senator Farley, on the amendment. 17 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Madam 18 President. I do rise in support of this, from 19 a little different perspective, to speak on 20 behalf of something that is affected in it, 21 and that's a prison that I have, Mount 22 McGregor, up near the Town of Wilton. I share 23 part of it with Senator McDonald and former 24 Senator Bruno.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 For years, they've been trying to 2 close that. That is a minimum-security camp. 3 But I just want to speak to one facet of it, 4 how successful that was as a minimum-security 5 facility and how successful it is for our 6 criminal justice system. 7 They had work-release programs for 8 these minimum-security prisoners that went out 9 into the community and helped restore churches 10 and other community projects which were so 11 well-received by the community that it was 12 unbelievable. Now, some people say they don't 13 want a prison in their area. I'll tell you, 14 Mount McGregor or Camp McGregor or however you 15 want to phrase it, it was really beloved by 16 that community for all these prisoners 17 contributed. 18 And let me just say this, it was a 19 wonderful rehabilitation for them. They got 20 outdoors, they worked, they got fresh air. 21 They really enjoyed it. They did an awful lot 22 on behalf of the community. 23 And of course over the years, where 24 we've tried to save Mount McGregor, the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 purpose of this amendment is one of the things 2 that we can do to give these communities a 3 chance to get -- and also, I just feel it's 4 terrible that they've gone on and closed some 5 of these minimum-security prisons, because 6 they can work so well to -- not only in the 7 criminal justice system, in rehabilitating the 8 prisoners and that sort of thing. 9 But I do speak in favor of this 10 amendment for many of the things that it does, 11 particularly in the Rockefeller drug laws and 12 so many other areas. Of course, I'm going to 13 vote for it. 14 Thank you, Madam President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 16 Thank you, Senator. 17 The question is on the nonsponsor 18 motion to amend Calendar Number 135. Those 19 Senators voting in support of the nonsponsor 20 amendment, please signify by saying aye. 21 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 23 Senator Libous. 24 SENATOR LIBOUS: I believe this

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 is a fast roll call, and it's a show of hands. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 3 Those Senators voting in support of the 4 nonsponsor amendment please raise your hands. 5 Announce the results. 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 30. Nays, 7 21. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 9 The motion fails. 10 Senator Libous. 11 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Madam 12 President. 13 I believe there is another 14 amendment at the desk, by Senator Golden and 15 Senator Volker. I ask that you waive its 16 reading and then call on Senator Golden first, 17 please. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 19 Fine. The amendment is here at the desk, and 20 without objection, the reading is waived. 21 And, Senator Golden, you may speak 22 on the amendment. 23 SENATOR GOLDEN: Thank you, Madam 24 President.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 My amendment deletes the 2 Rockefeller drug law change from this 3 suggested bill, from this bill today. I ask 4 that all Senators join me in this. Even if 5 you support the change in the law, this budget 6 bill is not the place to do it. 7 It is no secret that I oppose this 8 change. I have been vocal about it, as many 9 of Senators here in this Senate chambers have 10 been in the past. I believe it's bad policy 11 to put convicted drug pushers back on the 12 streets and to leave others there to continue 13 to do their business. 14 We know that the money from their 15 transactions funds more crime and also 16 terrorism. And recent news reports say that 17 Hezbollah is using the same southern narcotics 18 routes that the Mexican drug kingpins do to 19 smuggle drugs and people into the United 20 States, reaping money to finance its 21 operations and to threaten U.S. national 22 security. 23 There are also many other questions 24 about this bill. Is there enough drug

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 treatment money for this? I am told that one 2 agency alone would need $50 million -- one 3 agency, out of all of the agencies across this 4 great state. Why is it so important to cut 5 the DAs out of the process? How many 6 criminals will be eligible for resentencing? 7 I have heard the suggestion that 8 this provides help to addicts and jail for the 9 pushers, but I don't see that. There are many 10 other questions. Some of the key issues, the 11 Assembly passed this bill, Assemblyman Aubry's 12 bill, 98 to 46, with a debate. And on 13 March 4th, Senator Schneiderman introduced the 14 bill into the house, S2855. It was reported 15 to the Crime Victims Committee, but the 16 committee has never brought that bill up for 17 consideration. It has not held hearings and 18 it has had not one discussion on that bill. I 19 am on that committee, and there's been nothing 20 done in that committee on this bill. 21 What we have are three men in a 22 room doing a back-door deal on a major change 23 in state policy. Even if you like the change, 24 even if you support it, this is not the way to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 get it done. The way to do this is by having 2 hearings, letting people speak on the bill, 3 get input from the DAs, from the advocates, 4 and from all sides. Then change the bill if 5 there are good ideas, or bring it through the 6 committee's process and bring it to the floor 7 and let's have a good debate on it. 8 It's possible that the reason that 9 this bill is being done this way is because 10 the other side does not have the votes for 11 this bill to stand alone. Is that the case? 12 And if that is the case, then shame on 13 everybody for making that decision. What you 14 afraid of? Are you afraid of debate? 15 Putting a change this radical in a 16 budget bill is against anything and everything 17 we believe about democracy. It is 18 undemocratic to not have all interested 19 parties involved in debating and improving. 20 This bill is a shame. It also 21 gives a lie to something that many members in 22 this house have said they feel strongly about, 23 transportation and openness. How sad is that? 24 Ladies and gentlemen, this budget

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 is being criticized rightly for its 2 unprecedented secrecy. Let's not compound 3 this problem by passing a change this radical, 4 this profound, with no public input and no 5 input from the members or the committees in 6 this house. 7 We need just one or two votes from 8 the other side of this room who will stand up 9 to do the right thing and to make sure that we 10 do not make families suffer across this great 11 state because of an injustice that's being 12 done here today. It's the right thing to do. 13 Take this change out of the budget, and send 14 it through the process. 15 We've heard Senator Schneiderman 16 talk about the newspapers across the state. 17 One I guess that he's definitely against is 18 "The plan goes all the way" -- quoting, "The 19 plan goes all the way to giving druggies a 20 pass for crimes like breaking into cars, 21 burglarizing liquor stores, and grabbing 22 purses off park benches. Citing addiction as 23 justification for thievery would make them 24 eligible to be considered for rehab rather

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 than prison." 2 Further quoting, "Sentences for 3 most drug crimes would be reduced, not just 4 for addicts but for the run-of-the-mill 5 traffickers motivated by greed. Judges would 6 have almost unfettered discretion to put drug 7 offenders into probation or treatment no 8 matter how many offenses the offenders have on 9 their rap sheets." 10 "Addicts who steal," still quoting, 11 "would also be eligible for rehab regardless 12 of criminal history. After treatment, 13 convicts could apply to have charges dropped 14 or records sealed, wiping away long-time 15 consequences for law-breaking." 16 Still quoting: "Proponents of the 17 Drug Dealer Protection Act realize their ideas 18 would not stand up in the light of day, so 19 they negotiated the law in secrecy, bypassing 20 all semblance of public hearing with the 21 intent of jamming this package through as a 22 footnote to the state budget due this week. 23 This craziness must not become law, or 24 crackheads, dopers and drug gangs will rule

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 the streets." 2 Still quoting. "New York's prison 3 population is falling faster than the inmate 4 census of any other state. More people 5 arrested for drug crimes last year went into 6 treatment than to state prison, and New York 7 crime rates remain at historic lows." 8 Still quoting. "'If you saw 9 something that was so successful, why would 10 you tinker with it?' asks Staten Island 11 District Attorney Dan Donovan, speaking for 12 virtually every prosecutor in the state. Good 13 question." 14 Still quoting. "The only hope for 15 those who care about safe streets lies in the 16 Senate." 17 And as I said before, the Democrats 18 on the other side of that room can stand up 19 and vote no and give us the opportunity to 20 take this out of this bill. 21 I would ask our illustrious 22 Senator, sponsor, if he would yield for a 23 question. Pardon me? No? On the amendment, 24 I'm sorry.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: You're on 2 the amendment, so I can't. If you finish on 3 the amendment, I'll be glad to yield to a 4 question later. 5 SENATOR GOLDEN: Thank you. 6 As I was saying before, what would 7 this bill cost? One, Phoenix House, 8 $50 million. That's what we they say they 9 would need. How many criminals would be 10 eligible for resentencing? The bill says 11 1500. The DAs say 5,000. And people from 12 inside DOCS and inside DCJS are saying closer 13 to 9,000. Think about that. 14 This bill makes no distinction -- 15 although the Senator did point out the 16 difference to users and sellers and a test 17 that they would have to go through. And of 18 course the evaluation would be a history of 19 use to judicial diversion, whether they needed 20 that judicial diversion, if it would work. It 21 would also have to prove that at the end of 22 the process that the individual would not need 23 or would not need to go to jail and could go a 24 rehab.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 I have other questions as to what 2 standard do the judges use. Why did they have 3 to put in this bill burglary? Why do we need 4 to have nonviolent criminal mischief, larceny, 5 criminal possession of stolen property, 6 forgery, and then we add burglary to this 7 bill? Why was it, again, necessary to cut out 8 all the DAs across this state? And then if 9 you really had to do that, why would you 10 divert people with multiple felony offenses? 11 The bill allows defendants to opt 12 for treatment over jail up to the day of 13 trial, resulting in a defendant's holding out 14 to the end for the best deal. What will this 15 do for plea bargaining situations? What about 16 the waste of time for the police, the DAs, and 17 the court personnel? 18 This bill would allow judges, 19 including town and village court judges, many 20 of them not lawyers, to transfer these felony 21 cases to the misdemeanor drug court in the 22 county without the consultation or consent of 23 a district attorney. And in many cases, none 24 of them have any courts, drug courts. Many of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 them -- some of them without even treatment 2 facilities within their districts. What would 3 this do? 4 Then we've heard mention that there 5 were two exceptions, upon consent of the 6 prosecutor, or a finding of exceptional 7 circumstances based on the finding of severe 8 collateral consequences. Other members will 9 speak of that. 10 This is definitely a "get out of 11 jail" card that's going to be used in the 12 revolving justice that will be served across 13 this state because of that severe collateral 14 consequences. 15 And yes, illegal immigrants will 16 use it, and those quoted today will also have 17 an opportunity to use it, meaning that we will 18 be putting more people that are selling drugs 19 to our children in our streets back on the 20 street so that they can continue to sell 21 drugs. 22 Upon successful completion of drug 23 court, the defendant could withdraw a guilty 24 plea and the court could dismiss the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 indictment or the court could require a plea 2 to a misdemeanor with a sentence of probation. 3 The defendant could then move to have all the 4 records of the criminal prosecution sealed. 5 We've heard that. That was very 6 good. I guess those that are applying for a 7 job at a school, we couldn't find out if that 8 person -- because they sealed his records. A 9 childcare center. A home care center. 10 Hospitals. Do we really want to do that? 11 The district attorneys foresee this 12 generating a lot of work. As I had posted, I 13 told you that 1500 people is what they said, 14 across the hall. The DAs say it's more like 15 5,000. If a person is arrested for 3 1/2 16 years, serves six months, goes into Shock, 17 gets out six months later, serves a year out 18 of 3 1/2 -- sounds pretty good, doesn't it, so 19 far? 20 The list goes on. In all cases 21 currently in treatment, defendants will have 22 to be returned to court. Those that are 23 presently in treatment will have to be 24 returned to court and offered the opportunity

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 to withdraw their guilty plea and to withdraw 2 from treatment. This will be highly 3 disruptive and definitely counterproductive. 4 The new statute provides no clear 5 standards for drug treatment. It does not 6 even require that treatment cases be handled 7 by a drug court. The judge can send someone 8 to treatment who is not an addict. 9 You said he has to make -- or it 10 was said on the floor that the person have 11 these four evaluations met. But it doesn't 12 say that the judge has to act on all four. 13 Suppose you only met one or two. Suppose you 14 had no history of drug use but they felt that 15 you wouldn't have to -- going to jail would 16 not be good for you, so they decide, okay, 17 we'll use that one. 18 They could get away with whatever 19 they wanted to do. There is no standards. 20 And that's why everybody is so afraid of this 21 bill. Defendants with multiple prior C and D 22 felonies can get probation, no jail under any 23 circumstances. For example, a meth or a PCP 24 dealer with many prior drug-sale convictions

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 who are charged with multiple sales can get 2 probation. 3 This bill is a disaster. 4 Defendants with multiple felony convictions 5 can be sent to treatment without prosecutor 6 consent. No standards for when a judge can 7 divert the defendant. No requirements of 8 current substance abuse or need for treatment. 9 No clear consequences of failing drug 10 treatment or relapsing. 11 The bill will create costs and 12 encourage forum shopping. No limit on the 13 number of times a defendant can be diverted to 14 drug treatment. No requirement that the 15 diversion be supervised by a drug court. No 16 requirement for a treatment program to be 17 available. 18 And the resentencing is the best 19 part, where we sentence anywhere from 1500 to 20 9,000 people, of which God knows how many go 21 back to the street, God knows how much more 22 drugs they sell, God knows how many people 23 they kill. 24 I deal with a kid on a regular

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 basis. That kid was 17 when he turned to 2 drugs. Today, he's 40, and he's in and out of 3 that jail sentence time after time. He's gone 4 for 14 different rehabs. But guess what? He 5 got in a shootout with a police officer two 6 years ago, 38 years of age then. He's back on 7 the street again. He's run down people, he's 8 back on the street again. Been put in rehabs 9 more times than we can count. 10 This bill is going to give them the 11 opportunity to put more people like him on the 12 street, to hurt more people across this great 13 city and state. This is not just me. This is 14 editorial pages across the state. This is the 15 prosecutors across the state. This is the 16 sheriffs across the state. 17 They didn't even confer with any of 18 the sheriffs. They didn't confer with 19 Commissioner Kelly. They didn't confer with 20 anybody of any authority to find out if this 21 bill would hurt. 22 Ladies and gentlemen, my other 23 colleagues want to speak, so I have to sit 24 down. But I'm telling you, I can go on for

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 hours on this. This is the wrong thing to do. 2 This is going to turn this state backwards. 3 And people -- yes, people will die. 4 We need two of you to stand up and 5 do the right thing for the children of this 6 great state. You're going to vote with us? I 7 hope you are, Senator, because that would be 8 the right thing to do. 9 Thank you. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 11 Senator Volker, on the amendment. 12 SENATOR VOLKER: You know, 13 there's an old saying that the truth shall 14 make us free. Big problem with modern society 15 is -- and especially here in New York and on 16 this floor -- is we are a very restricted 17 state, and we are very, very restrictive. 18 Truth seems to have lost itself somewhere. 19 Let me first of all say this is not 20 a reform of the Rockefeller drug laws. I've 21 got letter after letter here that says, 22 Senator, it's not a reform of the Rockefeller 23 drug laws. I think it was 1979, if I'm not 24 mistaken, that we did the mandatory minimums

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 and a bunch of other things. Because the 2 Rockefeller drug laws were aimed mostly at big 3 people. They were aimed at big drug people. 4 You know, Eric, you weren't there. 5 Let me tell you, it was not what you think 6 that caused Rockefeller to become so 7 draconian. It was judges in New York City 8 that were sentencing to one-fourth of what 9 judges upstate were sentencing, and the 10 streets of New York were in chaos. People 11 were dying everyday. The first Rockefeller 12 drug laws, which I opposed very strongly, you 13 can't believe what they were: $500 bounty for 14 picking a person off the street and bringing 15 him in as a drug person. And it didn't say 16 whether he'd be dead or alive, by the way, and 17 I noticed that. 18 He had all kinds of provisions in 19 there, and he got so mad at me he ended up 20 pushing me against the wall and threatening 21 me. He ended up -- well, I won't get into 22 some of the details. He did tap my line, 23 also. 24 So if you think that I didn't have

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 a wrestling match over Rockefeller drug laws, 2 you're wrong. Dead wrong. 3 But you know, Velmanette, I can't 4 help but think as I'm looking at this, when I 5 did the death penalty, you said to me: No 6 hearings, no -- where are the hearings? And 7 you started reading to me college professors 8 and so forth. Well, let me tell you 9 something. Back in 2004 we had three solid 10 weeks of joint committees -- with Democrats 11 and Republicans, Assembly, the Senate -- and 12 we came up with what basically was the end of 13 the old Rockefeller drug laws. That was in 14 2004. 15 Now, the people who said no were 16 mostly from out of state. And of course they 17 also were defense attorneys from New York 18 City, because this bill -- the drafting of 19 this bill is obvious to me. No disrespect, 20 Eric, but it's got all the earmarks of the 21 Assembly staff people. I mean, even in the 22 bill it says the date January 13, 2005. I 23 immediately understood what that was. That 24 was the date that the old bill came into

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 effect. So they were so mad because we 2 wouldn't do the B's that what they did is they 3 went back there to resentence people before 4 that date because they couldn't get us to do 5 it back in January. 6 I just want to warn everybody in 7 this place, this is the most dangerous 8 provision I have ever seen on the floor of 9 this Senate. No upstater should ever vote for 10 this kind of bill. This is dangerous. It is 11 the beginning of a whole new street chaos. It 12 is a provision that, in my opinion, at the 13 very least should have had months of 14 discussion. But there's a reason it didn't 15 have months of discussion. You could never 16 get this passed. I don't know of one 17 reputable criminal justice person that really 18 supports this. 19 And, Senator Schneiderman, your 20 commission did not support this. Your 21 commission gave it as one of the 22 recommendations, and your commission didn't 23 even fully support this proposal. You have to 24 admit that. I'll ask you later. But I happen

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 to know that's true. 2 In 2004, we did what was considered 3 the most heralded reform of the Rockefeller 4 drug laws. It was -- in fact, let me read to 5 you what a DA, my DA said about this. 6 He said: "The proposed judicial 7 diversion legislation in its current form will 8 have devastating consequences for public 9 safety. It should not be passed in its 10 current form. 11 "The existing framework has 12 produced better results than any other 13 statutory scheme in the country. Over the 14 last 10 years, New York has seen the largest 15 decrease in prison population of any state in 16 the country. New York's incarceration rate 17 has decreased 15 percent, while the national 18 average was a 14 percent increase. Our prison 19 population declined from a high of almost 20 72,000 inmates to 60,000. 21 "More important, the number of drug 22 offenders in state prison has declined from a 23 high of 23,000 to less than 12,000. From 2000 24 to 2008, New York has seen a 44 percent

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 decrease in the number of drug offenders in 2 our prisons. Last year, there were more 3 offenders in New York's drug treatment courts 4 than drug offenders in prison. 5 "Despite such unparalleled success, 6 there are those who continue to mislead the 7 public by claiming that the draconian 8 Rockefeller drug laws must be repealed. Such 9 a characterization is misleading because the 10 2004 drug law reforms eliminated all of the 11 Rockefeller drug laws sentences and replaced 12 them with a more moderate and reasonable 13 sentencing range." 14 And one more thing I have to say. 15 You know, we could talk about it. The DAs did 16 not oppose the 2004 changes. They were 17 lukewarm on them, but they didn't oppose them. 18 Because they were nervous, but they said, 19 Okay, we'll see how they work out, because we 20 think maybe you went a little bit too far. 21 And I said, No, we didn't go too far, we did 22 what was the right thing to do. 23 But let me just say putting this 24 amendment into the budget is like putting the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 death penalty in the budget. Imagine if I 2 decided that I couldn't get the death penalty 3 passed, you know, in a regular bill, so I put 4 it right in the middle of the budget. Oh, my 5 gosh, people would be crazy, they'd be running 6 around saying, "Volker, you've gone nuts, you 7 can't do that." 8 That's what we're doing here. The 9 reason this is in the budget is because this 10 bill couldn't get reported out of our 11 committee -- I'm talking about yours and mine, 12 Eric, nor could it have been out of -- and I 13 don't know what it -- I don't want to say 14 anything, but I don't know why it ended up in 15 Crime and Corrections. It really should have 16 been in Codes. But that's neither here nor 17 there. It doesn't matter to me. 18 It was a bill that most of us never 19 saw until right at the end. And I'm the one 20 that agrees with many of you; over the years, 21 you said you shouldn't sneak criminal justice 22 legislation through. I agree with that 23 100 percent. I have always agreed with that. 24 You give it time, you give it all the time it

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 needs to be looked at. But there is a reason 2 why this couldn't be looked at. It could 3 never stand up. 4 And by the way, there's other 5 problems here. There's some drafting problems 6 in this bill, I'm told by a lot of the 7 legislation people. And their concern is that 8 it's so vague, they have no idea how many 9 people are going to be let out of jail because 10 of this. They have no idea. 11 And I know there's a huge 12 celebration going on in New York City if this 13 bill passes. They're defense attorneys, 14 they're calling all of us up: When is this 15 going to pass, when is this, so I can get -- 16 you know, this is going to be a defense 17 attorney's -- what's the word I'm trying to 18 use? They're going to have a drink on us, I 19 hate to say it. A dream. Dream. Dream. 20 Dream. 21 But I'm only going to -- I'm going 22 to finish, because this is just the amendment. 23 If you want to get rid of this proposal and do 24 something for this state and for New York City

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 and for upstate New York, vote this down right 2 here and we'll redo what's been done here. 3 You can't just change this scheme here, 4 because the scheme is so skewed away from DAs 5 that it's virtually impossible. 6 And there's just one more thing I 7 want to tell you. We treat an awful lot of 8 people in this state, there's no question. 9 We've developed a good system of courts, of 10 drug courts. And Shock incarceration has been 11 a very successful. This bill finishes Shock 12 incarceration. You're going to up 50? I 13 mean, it was designed as a young people's -- 14 the whole idea of the boot camp was young 15 people. So we're going up to 50. And there's 16 even a credit as part of it, so that they can 17 come in and out. 18 And we haven't got anywhere near 19 enough drug courts. Where's the money coming 20 from? I'll tell you where it's coming from. 21 It's going to come out of local taxpayers. 22 And we're not giving them the money for local 23 jails either. And even worse, we're not 24 giving them the money for treatment.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Remember, the Governor's budget 2 stripped money for treatment of alcohol and 3 drugs. So what we're doing here, we're doing 4 a bill that claims to allow people to go from 5 prison to treatment, and there isn't going to 6 be any treatment. 7 So my advice to all of you is, vote 8 with us, let's get this amendment out of the 9 budget and move on from there. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 11 Thank you. 12 Senator Flanagan, on the amendment. 13 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you, 14 Madam President. On the amendment. 15 I had an opportunity to listen to 16 my colleagues, and in particular, starting off 17 with Senator Schneiderman. And I will say 18 this very clearly. I believe he has true 19 passion and dedication to this issue. And 20 while I respect what he's offering, I will 21 also respectfully disagree with this. And 22 that's why I want to get up and speak on the 23 amendment. 24 And I don't come with any

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 particular bias. I don't have the same law 2 enforcement background that some people do. 3 But I try and look at this as objectively as 4 possible. And when we speak about things like 5 deferring to Senator Hannon on health issues 6 or Senator LaValle on higher education issues, 7 this is an area of the law where we can all 8 become students, but I think it's 9 extraordinarily important to listen to people 10 who are actually in the field, the people who 11 are doing the work every day. 12 And very simply, I can tell you 13 that my DA, Tom Spota in Suffolk County, does 14 not like this legislation at all and has been 15 quite outspoken about it. And no pandering, 16 no vitriol, no hyperbole or anything like 17 that, just very matter-of-fact claims and 18 assertions about what he believes this 19 legislation will do. 20 But Senator Volker has a penchant 21 for sharing information with his colleagues, 22 and I was one of the people who had received 23 an essay entitled "The Law of Unintended 24 Consequences," which was authored by the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 special narcotics prosecutor for the City of 2 New York. I don't live in the city. I don't 3 even know the people who run this office. But 4 it was actually extremely enlightening to read 5 what they had to say. 6 And let me -- I'll try and 7 characterize it in a couple of different ways. 8 First of all, they didn't object to the prior 9 legislation. And there's no pandering 10 whatsoever in what they wrote. It's a factual 11 recitation of what they believe to be the 12 practical applications of what happened with 13 the previous reforms that we had done. And 14 they include some very basic things. 15 And let me add this. The head of 16 that office is a woman named Bridget Brennan, 17 who's not elected. She is the special 18 narcotics prosecutor. She has been heading 19 this office for 10 years in the City of New 20 York. She has a 25-year career as a 21 prosecutor. She comes with no political 22 ideology. She serves at the discretion of the 23 five district attorneys within the City of 24 New York.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 So this woman has an absolutely 2 proven track record, no bias in any way, in my 3 humble opinion. And I had an opportunity to 4 speak with her on the phone today and really 5 get to someone who is doing this work every 6 single day. 7 And they have a reputation for this 8 program of being a national model. And she 9 clearly advocates for treatment as the first 10 opportunity and the first course of action. 11 And some of the facts that they offer in terms 12 of what has happened with the reforms that we 13 previously did -- here's a couple of facts. 14 And I'm reading specifically from information 15 that was provided. 16 In special narcotics cases, one 17 thing has remained unchanged. Under the new 18 laws as well as under the old law, the vast 19 majority of first-time felony offenders do not 20 go to prison. 21 What are the effects of the new law 22 that we enacted years ago? Eighty-nine 23 percent of those sentenced to state prison had 24 prior felony convictions. Drug offenders with

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 no prior convictions, only 36 first-time 2 felony offenders were sentenced to more than 3 one year in prison. In each case, aggravating 4 factors were present such as other pending 5 cases, severity of the crime, or a prior 6 misdemeanor criminal history. 7 And here's one of the things that 8 happened with the law, and this is the 9 unintended consequence. They say that 10 treatment applications are trailing off, 11 because when you start to reduce the available 12 time for punishment in terms of the crime, 13 there are those who will say: I'll weigh it. 14 Should I go for treatment, or should I opt for 15 the prison sentence and try and get out in an 16 expedited time? 17 In terms of what they said, Senator 18 Schneiderman, they do not -- I think a fair 19 assessment of what is written herein does not 20 have anything that is critical of the prior 21 changes that we made but actually says, in the 22 end, that we may have had some unintended 23 consequences because the bigger people, the 24 drug kingpins and the worst offenders, were

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 the ones that got the most revision in their 2 sentences and had the most reductions. And 3 they do advocate for a drug kingpin statute as 4 a recommendation in what they were putting 5 forth. 6 Now, in speaking with Ms. Brennan, 7 I will say that -- and I want to be very 8 clear. I'm saying this as an observation, no 9 more, no less. She came up, she lobbied, she 10 told me she spoke with Senator Sampson, 11 because I asked specifically who did you have 12 an opportunity to speak to. She told me she 13 spoke to people in the Assembly, members of 14 the State Senate. She did not have an 15 opportunity to meet with you. That's not a 16 value judgment, it's just part of the 17 discussion that I had with her. But she told 18 me that she got a fair hearing from Senator 19 Sampson. 20 I called her today, in light of the 21 letter that we all received. And frankly, I 22 had a fabulous conversation with her because I 23 thought she was terrifically knowledgeable. 24 And I just want to give you a few of her

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 comments, verbally then and in writing as 2 well, in terms of what they believe will be 3 the practical effect. 4 Narcotic offenses will no longer be 5 taken as seriously as they have been 6 previously. Lower sentences on even basic 7 things like drug sales. She believes it will 8 have a big trickle-down effect, that it will 9 lead to despair in communities. And I've 10 heard Senator Volker mention this separately 11 before. They have, in the DA's office, a very 12 real concern about what the practical effect 13 will be for undercover police officers and 14 what their work will be like on the streets. 15 And with no disrespect to the 16 sponsor, there are grave concerns about how 17 the bill was drafted. Here's a classic 18 example. The sentencing provisions take 19 effect immediately, but the treatment piece is 20 not effective for six months. 21 She said that there is a lot of 22 worry and a lot of consternation in the 23 judiciary already about what will happen. 24 Judges were talking about -- even without this

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 bill being passed -- that for cases that are 2 pending, that they'll adjourn them for six 3 months so that they can wait until the new 4 sentencing provisions come in, which creates a 5 greater likelihood that some of these 6 offenders, and they can be very serious felony 7 offenders, will be out on the street. That's 8 a ripple effect in terms of what is out there 9 for the communities and the undercover police 10 officers. 11 The definition of who is eligible 12 is quite -- again, no disrespect -- is porous 13 and sloppy in terms of its drafting and leaves 14 it open to way too much discretion. 15 But I also think of work that's 16 been done by my colleague Senator Fuschillo in 17 terms of DWI. And one of the things that she 18 specifically referenced and I want to give as 19 an example -- and we checked in the statute -- 20 under this bill, the ceiling provision will 21 apply. You can have up to three prior 22 misdemeanor convictions, a felony conviction, 23 and if you go through drug treatment, you can 24 have all of these sealed. All of them. Not

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 just the felony conviction, but all of them. 2 So when you go for a prospective 3 application to work -- and I think what 4 Senator Golden spoke to -- I'm not sure 5 exactly in every instance, but it worries me 6 that an employer will not have the right to 7 have information about someone who has not had 8 one, not had two, not had three but four prior 9 criminal convictions. That's something that 10 should concern all of us. 11 And I will conclude by reading a 12 portion of a letter dated today, which I am 13 going to gather many of you received, but I 14 think there are some salient points in here 15 for the record. And this letter is from 16 Bridget Brennan, again, the special narcotics 17 prosecutor. 18 "The following is an excerpt from 19 an anonymous letter received in connection 20 with rampant drug-dealing at a public housing 21 development in New York City. The desperation 22 and frustration expressed about these drug 23 dealers is overwhelming. 24 "'We demand help here. This letter

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 will be sent out every week until we see some 2 results, and I'm not talking about patrols for 3 a week and then it stops, we are talking about 4 daily patrols until someone is caught and 5 they're put away, with the building secured 6 for the good people who live here.' 7 "In response to this letter, they 8 had completed a year-long undercover 9 investigation into widespread, open crack 10 dealing in 13 of the housing complex's 17 11 buildings. 12 "The day this bill is signed, many 13 of the drug dealers arrested will face 14 substantial sentence reductions. Very likely 15 they will return to the complex in short 16 order, much of the dismay of the letter writer 17 quoted above and all of the other residents he 18 bravely spoke up for. 19 "This drug law proposal creates a 20 porous and ineffective treatment diversion 21 model." And it says here: "Judges, like 22 prosecutors, are bound by the words of the 23 statute and not by the good intentions of 24 those who designed it or voted in support of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 it. The statute was poorly and hastily 2 drafted and never subjected to any debate or 3 to scrutiny. It has more loopholes in it than 4 I can enumerate here." 5 So I would concur with the remarks 6 of my colleagues Senators Golden and Volker. 7 The reality is we're doing this bill on the 8 budget because the votes wouldn't be here. 9 And if that's the approach you want to take, 10 we don't have to agree with it, but I think 11 that's actually why we're doing it. 12 And going back to the issue of the 13 collateral consequences, I did have a 14 discussion with the special prosecutor about 15 the question of legal and illegal immigration. 16 And part of the problem they see is that there 17 is no definition. There's complete latitude 18 and no clear definition in this bill that 19 defines what exactly those collateral 20 consequences are. 21 So it is reasonable to assume that 22 a judge could look at the status of one who is 23 a legal immigrant and an illegal immigrant, 24 and that could affect their decision. And I'm

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 hearing that. This is not John Flanagan. 2 This is not some undercover police officer. 3 This is the head of the special narcotics 4 prosecutor's office of the City of New York, a 5 person who has been doing this for 10 years, 6 has made a career out of this. They have 7 massive and grave concerns about this 8 proposal. 9 I'll conclude with this point. 10 Senator Volker, really with incredible due 11 diligence, spent three weeks at the conference 12 committees in getting the last reform. That's 13 an indication of how serious this issue is, 14 and that's more of an indication why this bill 15 should not be part of the New York State 16 budget. 17 Thank you, Madam President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 19 Thank you, Senator. 20 The question is on the nonsponsor 21 motion to amend Calendar Number 135. Those 22 Senators voting in support of the nonsponsor 23 amendment please raise your hands. 24 Announce the results.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 30. Nays, 2 20. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 4 The motion fails. 5 Senator DeFrancisco, on the bill. 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. Would 7 Senator Schneiderman yield to a couple of 8 questions? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 10 Senator Schneiderman, will you yield for some 11 questions? 12 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I'll be 13 glad to yield, Madam President. 14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Now, 15 Senator Schneiderman, you indicated that the 16 reason for the collateral consequences, severe 17 collateral consequences exception to someone 18 pleading guilty before they go to treatment 19 was that if you didn't have it in there, it 20 would be unconstitutional. Is that what 21 you're saying? 22 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: That was 23 what I said. I cited the case of People v. 24 Michael A.C. of the Court of Appeals and read

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 the language from that case indicating that 2 that was a problem. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, would 4 Senator Schneiderman yield to another 5 question? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 7 Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to 8 yield? 9 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, I 10 will continue to yield. 11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: When 12 someone presently pleads guilty, they're 13 giving up their right to a trial. And it 14 happens every day of the week where someone 15 pleads guilty in return for a specific 16 sentence; is that correct? 17 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Actually, 18 as a technical matter, you do not get the 19 sentence until after the guilty plea. 20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 21 Senator Schneiderman please yield to another 22 question? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 24 Senator Schneiderman, do you yield?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, I'd 2 be glad to yield. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Are you 4 saying that people do not plea bargain and 5 plead guilty in return for a definite 6 sentence? 7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I think 8 the difference -- through you, Madam 9 President -- is that this would be a statutory 10 imposition of something that is in the context 11 of a plea bargain worked out in court. And as 12 you know, the judge does an allocution to make 13 sure that the defendant is freely choosing 14 this. 15 The courts have consistently held 16 that you cannot enact that sort of a 17 requirement in a statute. And the People v. 18 Michael A.C. is one case, there are cases all 19 over the country, there are U.S. Supreme Court 20 cases holding this. You cannot enact this in 21 a statute. And that's the objection to the 22 proposal. 23 As this was originally proposed -- 24 and I would like to correct some things that

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 were said here. This bill is not the bill 2 that passed in the Assembly. This is a very 3 different bill. This is built around a 4 proposal that Governor Paterson developed 5 building on the work of the Sentencing 6 Commission. There was a similar proposal in 7 the Sentencing Commission report. This is a 8 different piece of legislation entirely from 9 the bill that was passed in the Assembly. 10 So the Governor's original proposal 11 did not include an exception to the guilty 12 plea. When it was pointed out that there was 13 this constitutional problem, counsels to the 14 Governor, to the Assembly, and to the Senate, 15 we all reviewed the case law and decided that 16 in fact there is a constitutional prohibition 17 to enacting this in statute. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 19 Senator Schneiderman yield to another 20 question. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 22 Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to 23 yield? 24 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will be

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 glad to yield. 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: If we did 3 not have this exceptional collateral 4 consequences in the statute, and a requirement 5 or an opportunity to go to drug treatment, and 6 this statute wasn't written the way it was, 7 couldn't a prosecutor and doesn't presently a 8 prosecutor and a judge have the authority to 9 send somebody, to divert somebody if they 10 plead guilty right now, under the current law? 11 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. 12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: So you're 13 saying that if we put that in statute, no 14 longer does that individual have the same 15 opportunity because it becomes 16 unconstitutional? 17 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: No, no, 18 no. Through you, Madam President. 19 There are two exceptions that are 20 provided for in this bill, if Senator 21 DeFrancisco would look at it. One is on 22 consent of the prosecutor. But the second is 23 in the exceptional circumstances of a finding 24 of likelihood of severe collateral

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 consequences. 2 So the provision for prosecutorial 3 consent is there as well. It does not remove 4 the constitutional impediment to a statute 5 that says that there is a sentencing scheme 6 with -- a more lenient sentencing scheme that 7 is available to you if you waive your 8 constitutional right to a jury trial. Not a 9 specific plea bargain, but an entirely 10 different sentencing scheme. 11 You may disagree with the U.S. 12 Supreme Court and the Court of Appeals, but we 13 have attempted to comply with their rulings 14 and draft a constitutional statute. And I 15 hope you will be supportive at least of our 16 efforts to do so. 17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, thank 18 you, Senator Schneiderman. 19 I was on that conference committee, 20 and I worked cooperatively with you and 21 everyone else to come up with the last 22 reforms. But I disagree with your reading of 23 this Michael A.C. case. 24 And on the bill. On the bill, if I

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 could. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 3 Senator DeFrancisco, on the bill. 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: And I may 5 have another question. 6 But this case basically says that a 7 procedure that was stated in statute where 8 someone could not avail themselves of the 9 youthful offender status unless he previously 10 to getting into that system where he could 11 become a youthful offender would have to waive 12 his right to a jury trial. 13 Now, that's substantially different 14 than one consenting to plead guilty in return 15 for a specific sentence or a specific 16 sentencing structure or, better yet, a 17 diversion. If you are an individual that is 18 willing to plead guilty to get a specific 19 sentence, you certainly -- and that's plea 20 bargaining. It happens every day in every 21 jurisdiction -- you certainly should be able 22 to plead guilty in order to be diverted to a 23 nonsentenced situation like a diversion 24 program.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 This has absolutely nothing to do 2 with a constitutional violation. That's my 3 opinion. And I know we disagree on that. And 4 I would suspect that others can give their 5 opinions. 6 I had another question that was 7 raised that I had heard Senator Flanagan talk 8 about that I think is important. Would 9 Senator Schneiderman answer another question? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 11 Senator Schneiderman, will you yield for 12 another question? 13 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will 14 yield for another question. 15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 16 Schneiderman, you indicated that you worked 17 very hard on this idea that you don't have to 18 plead guilty if there's exceptional 19 circumstances or severe collateral 20 consequences. 21 Senator Flanagan mentioned in 22 reading that letter that nowhere in the 23 statute does it have a definition of those 24 particular terms. Was that correct?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: That's 2 correct. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: So -- would 4 he answer another question, please? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 6 Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to 7 yield? 8 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, I 9 will answer another question. 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: So it is 11 totally up to the judge at this point in time 12 to determine whether to allow a person to 13 plead -- excuse me, to be diverted without 14 having to plead guilty, it's totally the 15 judge's decision as to what that means, 16 exceptional circumstances or severe collateral 17 consequences. Is that correct? 18 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Well, 19 through you, Madam President. The way the 20 status is written, it provides that the court 21 must find that a plea of guilty is likely to 22 result -- not just may result, but is likely 23 to result in severe collateral consequences. 24 It is correct that there is no further

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 definition provided. 2 But I would like to note for 3 Senator DeFrancisco that this statute also 4 provides that the chief administrator will 5 direct these cases to drug courts. And this 6 is something that we've been talking about for 7 as long as the efforts to reform the 8 Rockefeller drug laws have been underway. And 9 drugs courts have been in existence for -- 10 certainly I've been involved in these 11 discussions for years. 12 Drug courts always require guilty 13 pleas. The statute as contemplated -- and the 14 fact that the chief administrator is directing 15 these cases into drug courts -- virtually 16 guarantees that there will be guilty pleas 17 required in every case except if there's 18 some -- and again, we came up with language 19 that was as limiting as we could come up 20 with -- unless there is a likelihood of severe 21 collateral consequences. 22 You're correct. But this will be 23 defined by the courts, there will be case law 24 on this. But that the effort was to ensure

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 that while we understand that in the 2 overwhelming majority of cases -- as in drug 3 courts today, they require guilty pleas -- 4 there had to be an exception for 5 constitutional reasons, and we made it as 6 narrow as possible. 7 I do not think that an exception 8 that had a very specifically enumerated 9 provision saying, you know, if there was a 10 health consequence or something like that -- 11 I'm not sure that would have met the 12 constitutional challenge. 13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 14 Senator Schneiderman answer another question? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 16 Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to 17 yield? 18 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will 19 yield for another question. 20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 21 Schneiderman, under current law, under drug 22 courts that are being used now, there's a 23 requirement of a guilty plea. Under the 24 system right now, is there an exception in the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 system right now that has something like 2 exceptional circumstances or severe collateral 3 consequences would result in the person not 4 having to plead guilty? 5 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Actually, 6 Senator DeFrancisco -- through you, Madam 7 President -- is proving our point. There is 8 nothing in the statute now which requires a 9 guilty plea in drug court because of this very 10 problem. 11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: You're 12 saying there's nothing in there requiring a 13 guilty plea. 14 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: No, sir, 15 there is not. Through you, Madam President, 16 there is not. 17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: All right. 18 One other question, and it's a little bit 19 unrelated. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 21 Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to 22 yield? 23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will 24 yield for one other question that is related.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: All right. 2 Maybe I'll think of -- well, you indicated 3 that in this bill there are caseload caps in 4 New York City for indigent defense. And is it 5 fair to say that the caseload caps are only in 6 here for New York City, is that correct? 7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 8 you, Madam President, it's actually not a 9 specific caseload cap. It is the 10 authorization for the courts to establish 11 caseload caps and phase them in over a 12 four-year period. 13 This is in response to a caseload 14 cap that was set up by the First Department in 15 New York City. And I would like to see this 16 all over the state, but we're taking this 17 first step forward to provide that the courts 18 can establish caseload caps for the courts in 19 the City of New York. 20 And I hope that the Senator will 21 agree with me that the finding of the First 22 Department that indigent defense attorneys 23 were averaging 656 cases per year, that that 24 really is a system that is crying out for some

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 sort of a cap so that we can ensure adequate 2 representation. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would the 4 Senator yield again. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 6 Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to 7 yield? 8 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, I 9 will continue to yield. 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 11 Schneiderman, how much is it estimated that 12 these caseload caps is going to cost the 13 indigent defense -- for indigent defense in 14 New York City? 15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 16 you, Madam President. We do not have a 17 specific cost estimate. The chief judge has 18 indicated that he is going to handle this in 19 the current judiciary budget. And it is a 20 phased-in program so that we can evaluate the 21 cost. 22 But this is something that the 23 judiciary has undertaken and essentially 24 agreed to take responsibility for, and they

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 have advised us that they believe they can 2 deal with it within their existing budget. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: One last 4 question, please. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 6 Senator Schneiderman, one last question. Do 7 you yield? 8 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 9 you, Madam President, one last question. 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: If there's 11 no cost, and at least the First Department can 12 put caps on indigent defense for people in 13 New York City, why doesn't the bill provide 14 for upstate, Long Island, and the like and 15 have the judiciary provide for the additional 16 funding through their existing sources and 17 treat upstate, Central New York, and every 18 other part of the state the same way as you're 19 treating New York City? 20 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 21 you, Madam President. In fact, in response to 22 the guidance of the judiciary, this is where 23 they felt the need was greatest, and they 24 wanted to phase in a program for New York City

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 over this period of four years. 2 I will certainly pass your 3 suggestion along to the chief judge. Would 4 you like to see a cap in your part of the 5 state also? 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Do you want 7 me to yield? I don't want to interfere with 8 the process. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 10 Senator Schneiderman, are you asking Senator 11 DeFrancisco to yield? 12 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. 13 And I don't want to burden you with 14 too many questions, but I am curious as to 15 your point of view on this. Do you think this 16 would be appropriate to impose a cap on the 17 rest of the state? 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I have no 19 problem with it being around the state. In 20 fact, it's going to cost more money no matter 21 what their estimates may be. 22 And my point was simply that it's 23 another instance where the city is being 24 treated differently by the three people who

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 negotiated in this closed-door session than 2 any other part of the state. 3 And if there's too many cases being 4 handled by defense lawyers and it's hurting 5 the poor or indigent defendants, then it 6 should apply throughout the state. And that's 7 my point. 8 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you. 9 Thank you, Madam President. 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: On the 11 bill. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 13 Senator DeFrancisco, on the bill. 14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, first 15 of all, I think Senator Flanagan made several 16 points. And I'm not going to repeat all of 17 them. But I think this issue of a person not 18 having to plead guilty to get diverted to a 19 drug program has to have a provision 20 exceptional circumstances or unintended or 21 extreme consequences, that that's 22 unconstitutional is pure nonsense. 23 If you're allowed now to plead 24 guilty in return for a specific sentence, then

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 you certainly should be able to make a 2 decision as a defendant whether you'd rather 3 plead guilty to be diverted or be prosecuted 4 to the full extent of the law and possibly go 5 to jail. That's a decision that the 6 individual has to make. And they could choose 7 clearly not to do it. 8 The example, not to go through 9 diversion, they'd rather go through trial, 10 that doesn't deprive them of any 11 constitutional right. 12 It's different in the case that was 13 cited because there, in order to get into a 14 youthful offender program, you had to agree in 15 the prosecution of your case that you'd go 16 nonjury rather than jury. That's a 17 substantial constitutional right you're giving 18 up in order to be treated as a youthful 19 offender. That's nonsense. 20 Secondly, and most importantly, as 21 the head of the narcotics division in the DA's 22 offices down in New York City said, there's no 23 definition. So when Senator Schneiderman just 24 protested so loudly that it might provide --

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 that it's just racism to consider that it 2 might be used by individuals who are illegal 3 immigrants or undocumented, however you want 4 to sugarcoat it, the fact of the matter is 5 that under those circumstances that could be a 6 very extreme consequence. 7 If the judges are making that 8 determination where we don't have to have this 9 person who's an illegal immigrant plead guilty 10 because there's exceptional circumstances, the 11 next stop is going to be deportation. 12 So whether or not -- I think it's a 13 very interpretation of what that article said. 14 And whether you think it's a good or a bad 15 idea to allow that to happen, the fact of the 16 matter is that certainly can happen under this 17 particular definition. 18 Secondly, which hasn't been 19 mentioned -- and I supported all the changes 20 and actually some more changes than were 21 supported in the last revision of the drug 22 laws back a few years ago when I was on that 23 committee. The other thing, it's very 24 dangerous I think, to not have the district

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 attorney have any say whatsoever in whether a 2 second felony offender is diverted or not 3 diverted. It's totally up to the discretion 4 of the judge. 5 The DA is elected to office to 6 enforce the laws of their jurisdiction. And 7 that DA has got to run for reelection based 8 upon how he did his job in protecting people 9 and going forward and enforcing the laws and 10 prosecuting. He doesn't even have a say as to 11 whether a second felony offender can be 12 prosecuted or not. It's up to a judge, who 13 gets elected maybe every 10 years or 14 years. 14 The fact of the matter is that's 15 the prosecutor's job. To take him out of that 16 system is simply wrong. 17 The letter -- and I'm not going to 18 read it again. But the letters we've got from 19 my DA and every other DA in this state 20 basically have the same concern. It's a very 21 loosely written law. It takes the prosecutor 22 out of prosecuting. I have no problem giving 23 judges discretion on how to sentence. But I 24 do give judges discretion as to when to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 prosecute and when not prosecute. This is a 2 very dangerous law. 3 And finally, this is unconscionable 4 to have a law of this significance be put away 5 in a budget to guarantee a number of votes and 6 to guarantee there will be no debate or no 7 discussion and no input from the people that 8 have to enforce the laws of this state. It's 9 wrong, and it should not happen. 10 And hopefully someone on that side 11 of the aisle understands that this should be 12 put apart from the budget. The world isn't 13 going to come to an end if this is taken out 14 of the budget. Put it back to conference 15 committees. If this is a good idea and what 16 we say is hogwash, then put it on the floor 17 for a vote. 18 But to allow such loose language, 19 and when the consequences are so 20 significant -- just to call something 21 Rockefeller drug law reform doesn't mean it's 22 good. The fact of the matter is the 23 significance of putting people on the street 24 that maybe shouldn't be back on the street is

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 so great to our community, it affects 2 everything, that we should have this separate 3 from this bill, have open meetings, and have 4 input from all interested parties, especially 5 the law enforcement officials of this state 6 who are required to enforce the law and are 7 going to be impeded by this law in view of its 8 language. 9 Thank you, Madam President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 11 Thank you, Senator. 12 Senator Padavan, on the bill. 13 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, 14 Madam President. 15 There are three members of this 16 house who were here in 1973 when the so-called 17 Rockefeller drug laws began. Just as an 18 anecdotal piece of information, that law, that 19 bill was done independently. There were 20 public hearings. As a matter of fact, 21 Governor Rockefeller came before the Assembly 22 Codes committee and gave testimony and was 23 grilled by members of that house on the 24 efficacy about the reasons behind his

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 legislation and to justify it. So there was 2 full and open debate from the very beginning. 3 In the years that followed, with 4 the Marijuana Reform Act of 1976 and all of 5 the changes in those laws that Senator Volker 6 articulated -- and I won't repeat it -- right 7 up to 2004, a great deal has occurred, and 8 much of it in a very positive way. During 9 Governor Carey's administration, we began -- 10 and I chaired the committee during a 10-year 11 period, from '76 to '86 -- we created the 12 Division of Substance Abuse. Drug treatment 13 programs in this state were expanded and 14 funded and created in a significantly positive 15 way. We led the nation then, and we do today, 16 in terms of our capacity to deal with drug 17 treatment, drug education, and drug 18 prevention, I might add. 19 These were all positive things that 20 occurred. One of the individuals who was here 21 during that period of time, counsel to 22 Governor Carey, was a gentleman by the name of 23 Richard Brown, who then was on the bench and 24 now, for the last 19 years, has been district

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 attorney of Queens County. So he was here 2 during that entire period of time. 3 He, along with all the other 4 district attorneys, have articulated in very, 5 very specific ways why this legislation is 6 wrong, why it should not be enacted. 7 Now, obviously it's part of the 8 budget because I don't think in a million 9 years could it get 32 votes if it stood on its 10 own. I can look over there at some members 11 that I know would not vote for it if it was a 12 clean and on-its-own bill but will do so 13 because it's part of the budget. 14 And it's pointed out to us in the 15 DA's memo on their list of concerns that a 16 defendant can have three, four, five or more 17 felony convictions and still receive treatment 18 over a prosecutor's objection, on and on and 19 on and on. And the other provisions, about 20 convictions or pleas sealed? 21 Now, imagine if someone applies for 22 a job as a schoolteacher in some school 23 district in our city or in our state and 24 there's no record whatsoever that's available

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 as to that person's prior guilty pleas of 2 selling drugs. 3 And haven't we adopted over the 4 years a number of penalties that are extra 5 penalties for selling drugs near and about 6 schools? There's a lot of hypocrisy here. 7 But one of the things that the DAs 8 have pointed out, and I think they're 9 absolutely correct, is that we will diminish 10 the incentive for drug pushers to go into 11 treatment. And one of the things they cite is 12 a quotation from the National Center on 13 Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia 14 University. And they say immediacy and 15 certainty of punishment is the key to 16 successful completion of drug treatment. 17 You're going to take that away in 18 this legislation. So there will be fewer drug 19 addicts who are also pushers and peddlers of 20 drugs going into treatment and staying into 21 treatment. 22 And you heard, of course, at some 23 length the discussion here about the 24 communication we all received from the special

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 prosecutor talking about the gaming that many 2 of these drug pushers will participate in to 3 get out of going to jail. And they'll be in 4 and out and in and out and in and out. The 5 Daily News called this the Drug Pusher's 6 Protection Act. I call it the revolving door 7 of the drug pusher, because that's what it 8 will be. 9 And all of the all gains that we 10 achieved in this state -- and Senator Volker 11 and others pointed out the reduction in the 12 number of people going to prison because of 13 what we did, collectively, over a period of 14 years in areas of treatment, education, 15 prevention and incarceration. Much of that 16 will be placed in jeopardy. 17 And I think there's a certain 18 amount of arrogance from those who are 19 suggesting that we pass this legislation, 20 arrogance because they are saying all the 21 district attorneys in New York State haven't 22 the slightest, foggiest idea of what they're 23 talking about. They're wrong. 24 The special prosecutor we created

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 to coordinate drug prosecution and all those 2 things associated with it in the City of 3 New York, she doesn't know, her office doesn't 4 know what they're talking about. Research 5 center at Columbia University, they don't know 6 what they're talking about. The Legislature 7 over a period of years, in its wisdom, they 8 were wrong. Only you, today, have the key to 9 what is right. That is arrogance. 10 You know, it's so disappointing to 11 me to have seen all of these things occur over 12 a period of 36 years -- I'm in my 37th year 13 here -- and all of the successes we've had. 14 And to see that put in jeopardy because of the 15 motivation on the part of some people is just 16 mind-boggling. I don't know how you can go 17 out and explain to this any person with half a 18 brain. I happened to be with Commissioner 19 Kelly Saturday night, and we talked briefly 20 about this. And he said, "Frank, you don't 21 have to be a rocket scientist to know what's 22 going to happen. We're going to have more and 23 more of these people on the street, we're 24 going to arrest them over and over again."

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 By the way, whoever said there's no 2 cost associated with this -- I think that was 3 a question earlier. A tremendous amount of 4 cost. Prosecuting over and over again, a 5 revolving door. And it will happen largely in 6 the City of New York, where you live and where 7 I live, to the people we represent. 8 We're probably speaking to no one 9 here because only about a third of the 10 Majority members are in this chamber. So 11 obviously we're not going to influence too 12 many minds here. But I'm hopeful that at some 13 point in time we'll flip here and we'll undo 14 the damage that you're about to do. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 16 Senator Saland, on the bill. 17 SENATOR SALAND: Madam President, 18 just somewhat interestingly, I had a 19 conversation a bit earlier in the lounge with 20 one of my colleagues from New York City, just 21 talking about the city and what a wonderful 22 place it is to visit and be. 23 And we talked about the fact that 24 my wife is from the city, and I told him as a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 young married man with children I wouldn't go 2 to the city and I wouldn't want my wife or my 3 children in the city. And this was back in 4 the '70s. This was back in the time when the 5 streets of New York were truly frightening 6 places to be. This was back in the time when 7 there wasn't a day that passed that there 8 wasn't some crime of some sort being committed 9 by somebody who in all likelihood was under 10 the influence of or securing the ability to 11 secure some drugs. 12 It's interesting to note the 13 dichotomy in the New York City newspapers 14 between the tabloids and the Times. And 15 certainly I can understand that for some it's 16 very important to appease the New York Times. 17 But when you look at somebody who's a supposed 18 nonviolent offender, you don't look at their 19 rap sheet. That person could have a rap sheet 20 longer than both my arms, and that person 21 could have been charged with or indicted on 22 multiple counts. That person might have 23 accepted a plea to a drug-related offense 24 because it might have been better than the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 burglary charge, it might have been better 2 than the assault charge, but it was a plea. 3 And certainly the wheels of the justice in 4 New York City are under greater strain than 5 the wheels of justice probably in any other 6 community that we harbor within our borders. 7 So there is a certain really 8 dubious question, I think, surrounding the 9 accuracy of what constitutes nonviolent 10 members of our currently incarcerated prison 11 system. 12 I note that there is in this bill a 13 provision that diverts not merely those who 14 may be guilty of one or another drug-related 15 offense but for certain other nonviolent 16 crimes. 17 And I would merely ask Senator 18 Schneiderman to respond to one question, if 19 you would, Senator Schneiderman. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 21 Senator Schneiderman, do you yield for a 22 question? 23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, I 24 would be glad to yield for a question.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SALAND: Could you tell 2 for me the compelling philosophy or policy for 3 diverting or permitting to be diverted 4 somebody who commits an act of burglary? 5 Burglary third, I believe, is what you are 6 permitting under your bill. 7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, 8 through you, Madam President. The theory of 9 the judicial diversion program -- and again, 10 this was really articulated in the Commission 11 on Sentencing Reform's report. This is the 12 part of the proposal that came from Governor 13 Paterson and is really his vision -- was that 14 we have to separate out people whose primary 15 problem is drug addiction from people who are 16 just criminals. 17 And the proposal included some 18 nonviolent property crimes in addition to 19 nonviolent drug crimes, because it was the 20 opinion of the experts and people whose work 21 went into the proposal of the Sentencing 22 Commission, and it's been the view of the drug 23 treatment people that I've spoken to about 24 this, that the most important thing about the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 judicial diversion program is maximizing the 2 window so that we can divert as many people 3 who are caught in the cycle of drug dependence 4 and criminality as possible, who could benefit 5 from drug treatment, whose primary problem is 6 drug abuse, into a treatment program. 7 And the proposal -- and again, this 8 is actually interesting. In this case, the 9 Governor's proposal went further than the 10 Assembly's proposal. Whoever is saying this 11 has the Assembly written all over it, this is 12 something that was not in the Assembly's bill. 13 The theory is that if you are 14 guilty of a nonviolent property offense -- and 15 burglary three means breaking into a shed, 16 basically, an uninhabited, unhabitable 17 building. This is like stealing something out 18 of something that is not a dwelling -- that 19 that and other nonviolent property crimes 20 should be included, keeping in mind that the 21 point of the diversion program is to get a 22 drug assessment to determine that the person 23 is essentially an addict and that their 24 criminality was caused by their addiction.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 So that is the reason these were 2 included. There was a determination made that 3 in addition to being able to divert people who 4 happened to be caught for the crime of drug 5 possession, adding some nonviolent property 6 crimes also would broaden the diversion 7 program. Once again, there is no one who the 8 treatment professionals and the judge, with 9 the prosecutor's input and objection, did not 10 determine to be primarily an addict and that 11 their criminality was caused by their 12 addiction who would ever get into the 13 diversion program. 14 SENATOR SALAND: And if the 15 Senator will continue to yield. Is that the 16 opinion of the experts, or is that an opinion 17 you share? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 19 Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to 20 yield? 21 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Well, it 22 is my opinion, but it's my opinion based on 23 all of the 18 months of work we did in the 24 Sentencing Commission and the work we've done

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 in drafting the bill. 2 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you. 3 Thank you, Senator Schneiderman. 4 Let me share with you some of the 5 other offenses that you would be diverted for 6 that were not drug-related offenses. And I 7 guess if you want to tolerate property crime, 8 it's a good thing to do. 9 The sections I believe are 10 listed -- let me just get my section of the 11 bill here. In addition to burglary in the 12 third degree -- and it's not necessarily a 13 shed. I think that's an extreme example. It 14 could be a place of business, could be a 15 building on your property that perhaps you 16 don't use as your residence. You know, it 17 could be any number of commercial structures. 18 So we're not talking merely about sheds here. 19 Now, if under criminal mischief in 20 the third degree someone damages a motor 21 vehicle by breaking into the vehicle when it's 22 locked, with the intent of stealing property, 23 and has within the prior 10 years been 24 convicted three or more times of that crime or

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 similar crimes, that person too gets diverted. 2 So it's open season on your automobile and the 3 property in your automobile. 4 Let's see what other ones we have 5 here. GPS systems are readily marketable on 6 the resale market, I understand. If you were 7 to commit grand larceny in the fourth 8 degree -- steal someone's credit cards, debit 9 cards, obtain property by way of extortion, or 10 if the property consisted of a scroll, 11 religious vestment, vessel or other item of 12 property having a value of at least $100 kept 13 in connection with religious worship, you too 14 would be diverted. 15 There are a slew of others. I 16 would merely suggest -- and those are simply 17 representative -- that if you have concerns 18 about your property, if you have concerns 19 about perhaps a member of your family being 20 accosted or assaulted in a parking lot, if you 21 have concerns about -- you know, or perhaps 22 you're not concerned about having a pocketbook 23 snatched or your house broken into, I guess 24 this is okay legislation.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 The impact on local jails with this 2 proposal, particularly with the -- now the 3 ability to provide one-year sentences, will be 4 staggering, staggering in particularly those 5 non-New York City counties. Even though the 6 burden may not be as great in numbers, many of 7 them are currently at full capacity, many of 8 them sent inmates at great cost out to other 9 facilities because they simply can't handle 10 anymore. And what we're saying here is you 11 will handle more, and you will pay for those 12 more. It's out of your pocket. 13 So as quickly as they can move out 14 state-ready's and technical parole violators, 15 they're going to have to swallow hard and pump 16 in more money from their property tax base to 17 make this work. 18 I have with me an article which I 19 thought was somewhat interesting. It's a 20 New York Post article. And while it's in a 21 different context, it is analogous. And the 22 context had to do with the civil confinement 23 legislation. And it's an article that was 24 published on December 2, 2005. And it says:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 "Pervs Flood Apple." "100 ex-cons since 2 August" is the subtitle. 3 And there's a quote in there from 4 one of our colleagues, and we're referring 5 here to sex offenders. "We're letting those 6 individuals loose in our community, and 7 they're nothing but ticking time bombs waiting 8 to commit another crime." And he goes on to 9 say, having served in the Assembly, he would 10 support a civil confinement bill but 11 leadership is holding it because "you have 12 some staff whose only reason for living is to 13 prevent tough criminal justice legislation 14 from passing." 15 And that truly is -- having served 16 on the Codes Committee in the Assembly, that 17 truly is the philosophy that has driven this 18 bill, that is the philosophy that stymies 19 virtually any criminal justice effort in this 20 institution. It is a philosophy that is 21 driven by both leadership and staff. There 22 has never been a bill in the Assembly that had 23 a penalty that they didn't like. And I see 24 today, when we're talking about people who are

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 time bombs, if we had a way to deal with what 2 I'll call the little loser, the person with a 3 habit who goes out on the street because of 4 that habit, and limit it to that little loser, 5 I think that would be a really, really 6 estimable goal to attain. 7 This paints with such a broad brush 8 that we're going to put people back on the 9 street, people who in order to satisfy their 10 habits, knowing full well that they're going 11 to get so many bites of the apple that there 12 will be nothing left, if even a core, that we 13 are going to see an increase in street crime. 14 And we're going to see also an increase in 15 more than street crime. We will see an 16 increase in violent crime. And the people who 17 are going to pay the price are going to be 18 your constituents and my constituents. But 19 certainly the City of New York, which has 20 enjoyed a reputation over the past two or 21 three years as being one of the safest major 22 cities in the country, is in the process of 23 losing that reputation. 24 I'm not going to repeat what the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 lawyers or the DAs or the prosecutors have 2 said. I'm merely going to tell you that 3 you're placing your constituents at risk. 4 And incidentally, the person who 5 made those comments is the deputy majority 6 leader who I quoted, Senator Klein. He's the 7 one who expressed concern about letting those 8 individuals out on the street, and that the 9 Assembly in effect never saw criminal justice 10 stuff that they wouldn't try and kill. 11 Thank you, Madam President. I vote 12 in opposition to the bill. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 14 Thank you, Senator. 15 Senator Nozzolio, on the bill. 16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, 17 Madam President. 18 Madam President, I rise with great 19 concern and wish to thank Senator Volker and 20 Senator Golden for bringing this important 21 issue to our attention, because for so long 22 the discussions regarding the so-called drug 23 law change bill was secret, behind closed 24 doors. It wasn't something that the general

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 public and certainly this house had any 2 opportunity to review at length. 3 To contrast with the conference 4 committee process that took place in 2004, I 5 was proud to be with Senator Volker, Senator 6 DeFrancisco, as a member of that joint 7 committee that worked to reform the drug laws 8 of our state and were very successful in doing 9 so in a full, open, transparent way. There's 10 been a 23 percent decline in drug offenses 11 since these laws were enacted in 2004. And 12 for that, this house, which supported those 13 changes virtually unanimously, should take 14 some pride. 15 I take pride in the fact that in 16 1995 we created the first of its kind in the 17 state, and I daresay the first of its kind in 18 the nation, when we took the abandoned Willard 19 Psychiatric Center and created the Willard 20 Drug Treatment Prison. The Willard Drug 21 Treatment Prison has been an enormous success, 22 but it does not -- and I should say at the 23 outset and say it as loudly as I can -- it 24 does not decriminalize drugs.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 What it does do is focus on those 2 who have committed crimes because of drug 3 dependency, because of alcohol abuse and 4 dependency, and ensures that their stay in 5 prison is a productive one that focuses on 6 rehabilitation. 7 But my colleagues, Madam President, 8 just as the old adage said, you can lead a 9 horse to water but you can't make them drink. 10 If someone is not committed to rehabilitation, 11 if they don't have the appropriate incentives 12 to get off of drugs or narcotics or whatever 13 their dependencies are, unless they're 14 committed to reforming themselves, they will 15 not make it. 16 The Willard Drug Treatment Prison 17 provides the opportunity for rehabilitation. 18 It's a success story in many other ways. It 19 helps grade-point average in education and 20 helps reading skills. And it's focused on 21 those inmates who actually want to be 22 rehabilitated, who have the desire to be so. 23 And that desire is the incentive, and the 24 incentive is that their stay in prison, if

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 they focus on this rehabilitation, will be 2 less than it would otherwise be. 3 That I'm very disappointed and 4 concerned that as some have called this a 5 disaster and an outrage, the legislation 6 that's before us today, and particularly 7 aspects of it that I wish to highlight. 8 Protecting illegal aliens who are 9 arrested for selling illegal narcotics. 10 Senator Volker terms it the Drug Dealer 11 Protection Act. Parenthetically, it seems as 12 though this is the only aspect of the New York 13 State budget -- and I don't know why it's in 14 the budget. I think it's a travesty that it 15 is secured in the state budget as opposed to a 16 separate legislative measure that will require 17 a separate debate that will require separate 18 oversight and separate review. Instead of 19 that, it is jammed into this huge budget 20 that's on our desks that's over a foot tall of 21 paper. 22 But at any event, that is the new 23 transparency that the Democrats in the Senate 24 are presenting us. This new transparency that

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 tries cloud the issues. Well, in any event, 2 we've already seen in this budget how jobs 3 will be lost in New York, how tax will be 4 increased, how spending will be increased, how 5 businesses will be driven out of this state. 6 Those that haven't left already are going to 7 get billions of dollars of incentives to leave 8 New York State, by the billions of dollars 9 that are going to be thrust upon them by this 10 budget. It seems as though the only growth 11 industry in New York is going to be drug 12 dealing. Because New York is now the safe 13 haven for drug dealers in America. And you 14 don't have even to be exclusively an American 15 franchise. You can be an illegal alien and 16 sell drugs in New York State -- and what will 17 happen? Not much. Not much at all. A slap 18 on the wrist. 19 Some so-called treatment that 20 frankly the infrastructure that is designed 21 for treatment, infrastructure that members of 22 the Democrats cut last time we did a budget, 23 which was the DRP just a few months ago -- the 24 infrastructure for parole, probation,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 correctional alternatives, all those areas 2 have been cut by you. That the infrastructure 3 is so weakened, it will never be able to 4 withstand, withhold the types of process that 5 are thrust upon them with this legislation. 6 Bridget Brennan, who was quoted 7 before -- who is again the special narcotics 8 prosecutor for the City of New York -- 9 reflects to me what many of the prosecutors in 10 my counties that I represent have already 11 communicated to me. Jon Budelmann, from 12 Cayuga County, the district attorney, 13 indicated clearly that he and the other 14 district attorneys from our state oppose this 15 legislation. 16 But Bridget Brennan, the special 17 narcotics prosecutor, indicated clearly that 18 "At a time when we are seeing troubling 19 escalation in heroin use in Long Island and 20 upstate counties, as well as New York City, 21 this bill sends the message that today we view 22 cocaine, heroin, and methamphetamine dealing 23 as less harmful today than ever." 24 That's very disturbing. It's

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 extremely disturbing to all of us who 2 represent areas that have seen too much an 3 invasion of drug dealing. The methamphetamine 4 issue is one that is becoming increasingly 5 prevalent in the upstate area. 6 We need to do exactly the opposite 7 of this legislation. We need to make sure 8 that those who are selling drugs in a 9 schoolyard, they may be young, but they're 10 pushing a very potent, powerful, and 11 destructive commodity. Those who sell drugs 12 in a schoolyard that may be under the age of 13 21 will get nothing more than a slap on the 14 wrist -- not even a slap, will be simply 15 diverted, by this legislation, away from 16 prison, away from incarceration, away from 17 punishment. And frankly, away from 18 appropriate treatment. 19 This is an outrage. It's something 20 that we should never support. It should be 21 vetted, it should be dissected throughout the 22 rest of this legislative session at the very 23 least, unless we can defeat it now. 24 And I noticed that there are over

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 15 Democrats in the New York State Assembly 2 who had the courage to stand up in opposition 3 to this legislation. It's a shame that we 4 can't find more than one Democrat from this 5 house that couldn't stand up to protect their 6 citizenry from an invasion of drugs and the 7 development of a system that simply says drug 8 dealers can apply to New York State. If 9 you're an illegal alien who is drug dealing, 10 you won't have to worry deportation if you're 11 caught. And of most concern is the drug 12 dealing by young drug dealers that had the 13 franchise around our local schools will be not 14 punished but simply sent with less than a slap 15 on the wrist to begin again without even a 16 criminal record as a result. 17 Madam President, for those and many 18 other reasons, this legislation should be 19 defeated. And that I hope that as the 20 Assembly found 15 Democrats to, in a 21 bipartisan fashion, oppose this legislation, 22 it's my hope we can find the same number on 23 the Democratic side of the aisle of this 24 house.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Thank you, Madam President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 3 Thank you, Senator. 4 Senator Fuschillo, on the bill. 5 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you 6 very much, Madam President. The sponsor, 7 Senator Schneiderman, talked about how this is 8 Governor Paterson's bill. I want to start off 9 by saying that if I had a medical problem, I 10 wouldn't go to Governor Paterson, I'd go to a 11 doctor. 12 It amazes me how Governor Paterson, 13 in this piece of legislation, has made the 14 prosecutors of the State of New York 15 irrelevant. Now, there's nobody here in this 16 body or in the Assembly or in the executive 17 branch that is currently a prosecutor 18 defending the people in this state. Yet this 19 bill ignores their expertise. It ignores 20 their daily work, it ignores everything that 21 we've heard from them since the Governor and 22 the Assembly passed the bill and then the 23 Governor proposed this bill. 24 In 2004, when Senator Volker had

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 chaired the joint legislative conference 2 committees with many members on both sides of 3 the aisle, weeks of meetings were held to 4 negotiate this out in the public for everybody 5 to see. And to the best of my recollection, 6 the bill passed unanimously because it was 7 done in a democratic, nonpolitical process 8 where every legislator had the opportunity for 9 input on reforming the criminal justice system 10 in this state. 11 And now, when the reforms are 12 before us, it was done in the nature of this 13 budget of secrecy. And the question is why. 14 You know, why, when the prosecutors say it's 15 going to put drug dealers and pushers on the 16 streets, is it ignored? We don't get an 17 answer to that question. 18 Why, when Senator Flanagan talked 19 about Bridget Brennan, who is the special 20 narcotics prosecutor from the City of 21 New York, when he read her letter -- and I'm 22 going to read the first paragraph, because 23 it's frightening. "With a great sense of 24 urgency, I ask you to vote no on the state

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 budget unless the drug laws are changed and 2 removed. While this proposal may be full of 3 good intentions, I fear that it paves the 4 proverbial road to hell for thousands of 5 decent citizens living in vulnerable 6 communities throughout our state." 7 Whoa. Here's a special prosecutor 8 dealing with narcotics that's saying exactly 9 what we feel, what Republican Senators feel 10 today, that drug dealers are going to get out 11 on the street and make our streets vulnerable. 12 My own district attorney, Kathleen 13 Rice, sent me a letter. And she stated in the 14 letter: "Let me be clear that I strongly 15 supported the reforms that we achieved to 16 these laws in the 2004 legislative session, 17 and I believe wholeheartedly that additional 18 reforms can be made that will address the 19 needs of our addicted population and at the 20 same time make our streets safer." 21 But she goes on to say: "I find it 22 deeply concerning regarding the new proposed 23 reforms to these drug laws. First and 24 foremost, it is my belief that the current

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 proposals have not adequately recognized the 2 important role that the district attorney's 3 office must play in determining who among our 4 drug dealing or drug possession defendants is 5 eligible for alternatives to incarceration." 6 She goes on to say: "There is 7 nobody more familiar with the defendant's 8 background and the details of their current 9 case than the district attorney's office. 10 Exclusion of the most informed party from such 11 an important process is ill-conceived and will 12 result in fewer drug treatment success stories 13 and more nonaddicted criminals on our streets. 14 "It is my belief that absent 15 appropriate and stable funding, the financial 16 cost of this legislation will be shifted 17 almost exclusively to our local jails and 18 probation departments, and that potentially 19 dangerous individuals in need of assistance 20 will go untreated and remain in our streets." 21 Those are the prosecutors. Those 22 are the people that are elected to be on the 23 front line of defense to the people in our 24 communities.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 2 Senator Marcellino, why do you rise? 3 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Madam 4 President, would Senator Fuschillo yield to a 5 question? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 7 Senator Fuschillo, will you yield for a 8 question? 9 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Yes, Madam 10 President. 11 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Senator, you 12 just read a letter from the prosecutor, the 13 district attorney of Nassau County, in which I 14 live and you live. Just for the record, what 15 is her political persuasion? 16 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: She's a 17 Democrat. 18 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you. 19 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: May I 20 continue? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 22 Senator, continue, please. 23 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you, 24 Madam President.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 So I've just read two letters, from 2 the Nassau County district attorney, Kathleen 3 Rice, and Bridget Brennan, who is the special 4 narcotics prosecutor for the City of New York. 5 And it was referenced before by Senator 6 Padavan, Senator Flanagan, and Senator Golden. 7 As a parent of three children -- 8 all of us as parents -- that's our first line 9 of defense with law enforcement, our 10 prosecutors. And for the Democrats in the 11 Senate and the Assembly and the Governor to 12 ignore the prosecutors that defend the people 13 and want to put these individuals behind bars 14 to protect us is something I'll never 15 understand. 16 Now, before I got elected to the 17 Senate I ran a nonprofit agency that ran drug 18 treatment programs, alternative to 19 incarceration programs called TASC, Treatment 20 Alternatives to Street Crime, throughout 21 Nassau County and the five boroughs, Rockland 22 and Westchester. 23 And a recommendation to the court 24 to go into a TASC program was made after the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 prosecutor sent the individual to TASC for an 2 evaluation. The evaluation came back to the 3 prosecutor, and then the prosecutor made the 4 determination whether or not this person 5 should go into the program or jail. And 6 that's being taken out of this, and that's of 7 great concern. 8 Would the sponsor yield for a 9 question, Madam President? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 11 Senator Schneiderman, will you yield for a 12 question? 13 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I would be 14 glad to yield for a question. 15 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you, 16 Senator. Just two or three quick questions. 17 The TASC programs that I was 18 involved with many years ago, and other 19 programs like that, faced significant 20 reductions in funding in the deficit reduction 21 plan and I believe in this budget as well that 22 we're voting on -- maybe not this section, but 23 other sections. 24 They were overloaded, the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 caseloads, they were overloaded before they 2 faced a reduction in the DRP, and they are 3 overloaded now. And I've talked to them, and 4 I've talked to the programs in the five 5 boroughs and Long Island that handle this 6 Treatment Alternative to Street Crime. They 7 can't handle this. 8 If this goes through, Senator, and 9 when it goes through, there's no additional 10 funding to handle the caseloads. How is it 11 going to be dealt with? 12 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you. 13 Through you, Madam President, that is an 14 excellent question. 15 In fact, there is additional 16 funding in this year's budget. We have, over 17 the course of the next two years, a commitment 18 of $71.6 million as essentially on the down 19 payment for this Rockefeller reform effort. 20 We know that breaking the cycle of 21 drug dependence, getting people out of prison 22 and into treatment programs, will save us 23 money. In the long run, it should save us 24 hundreds of millions of dollars. But the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 first two years of expansion of drug treatment 2 slots, as the Senator points out, does require 3 a down payment. 4 By a happy coincidence, we have a 5 significant amount of money, Edward J. Byrne 6 JAG program funding that's available through 7 the federal government as a part of the 8 American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 9 2009. So we are able to use federal stimulus 10 money for the two-year period of down payment 11 not just for treatment slots -- although, as 12 the Senator correctly points out, that's a 13 primary concern -- but to expand drug courts 14 and to provide additional funding for local 15 governments who are going to have additional 16 expenses for probation and other things. 17 I share the concern of everyone who 18 has spoken about the issue of cost and cuts in 19 the public protection budget. This is a 20 serious concern going forward. I do think, 21 and it seems pretty clear, that two years from 22 now the amount of money we're going to be 23 saving by having people, instead of spending 24 $60,000 a year to keep someone in prison, to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 have someone in drug treatment, is going to 2 come back to help us. But we do need money in 3 the short term, and we have that through the 4 federal stimulus package. 5 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Senator, 6 thank you. 7 Would the Senator continue to yield 8 for one further question? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 10 Senator, do you continue to yield? 11 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I continue 12 to yield. 13 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Senator, in 14 the bill these local conditional release 15 commissions, are they new. 16 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: The 17 local -- I'm sorry? 18 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Local 19 conditional release commissions. Is that 20 newly established? 21 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. Yes, 22 that is new. 23 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Would the 24 Senator continue to yield?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 2 Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to 3 yield? 4 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, I 5 continue to yield. 6 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: So in my 7 county, Nassau County, or I represent Suffolk 8 County as well, the county executive would set 9 this commission up and set up and appoint the 10 members, and they would be the ones 11 determining whether it's a conditional release 12 or not? 13 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I believe 14 that this is optional to the counties. This 15 is something that's not required. And it is 16 something at the discretion of the county 17 government. 18 So I don't know that your county 19 governments will choose to have conditional 20 release commissions or not. It's something 21 that we provide as an alternative. We're 22 trying to provide flexibility for local 23 governments. 24 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator. 2 There are other sections of the 3 bill, Madam President, that deal with fiscal 4 matters. Would somebody be kind enough to 5 answer some questions? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 7 Senator Kruger, will you yield for questions 8 from Senator Fuschillo? 9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I 10 will. 11 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you, 12 Senator Kruger. Thank you, Madam President. 13 Senator Kruger, in reading this 14 bill, on page 57 -- 15 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: If you say 16 so. 17 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: I'll wait for 18 you, because I have some questions on page 57. 19 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: That's 20 okay, go ahead. 21 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: The monies 22 that -- and there's a lot of appropriations 23 here, but I'll just pick one. $41 million 24 from the Office of Temporary and Disability

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Assistance Accounts, with the federal Health 2 and Human Services Fund, to go to the General 3 Fund. Is that a sweep? 4 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: It might 5 be. Or it might not be. 6 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay. Well, 7 I'll go with might be. 8 Would the Senator continue to 9 yield? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 11 Senator, do you continue to yield? 12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 13 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you, 14 Senator Kruger. 15 On the page previous to that, 16 page 56, line 49, it says $20 million from the 17 Hazardous Waste Remedial Fund Oversight and 18 Assistance Accounts to the General Fund. Is 19 that a sweep? 20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: It may be. 21 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay, good. 22 Would the Senator continue to yield? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 24 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 3 Yes, he does. 4 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: It's a lot 5 of money, by the way. 6 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you, 7 Senator Kruger. On that same page -- let me 8 get my notes -- $10 million from the Office of 9 Children and Family Services, Office of 10 Temporary and Disability Assistance, to the 11 Department of Health Special Revenue Funds, 12 and General Fund. Is that a sweep? 13 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: On what 14 page is that now? 15 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Same page, 16 56. 17 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Page 56. 18 Let's see what it says. 19 To the best of my knowledge, 20 Senator, they're transfers that are done each 21 year. But do you have a copy of the Article 22 VII bill? 23 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Are we on 24 that now?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: But if you 2 do refer to the Article VII bill at your 3 leisure, you'll be able to see that. 4 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you. 5 Would the Senator continue to yield? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 7 Senator Kruger, will you continue to yield? 8 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Absolutely. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 10 The Senator yields. 11 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: On page 58, 12 the next page, line 42, $192.4 million from 13 the Health Insurance Reserve Receipt Funds to 14 the General Fund. Below that, $150,000 from 15 the Not-for-profit Revolving Loan Fund to the 16 General Fund. Below that, $11 million from 17 the Miscellaneous Special Reserve Fund to the 18 General Fund. Below that, Surplus Property 19 Account to the General Fund. Below that, 20 another $2 million from the Miscellaneous 21 Fund. And I see a lot of these things. And 22 I'm not going to go through each one, Senator 23 Kruger, and I'll close the bill. But in 24 looking --

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: To my 2 knowledge, Senator, these transfers of funds 3 are no different this year than they're done 4 every year. The same ones that were 5 appropriated last year when you did the 6 budget. 7 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay. Then 8 on page 61, it continues, taking almost 9 $10 million out of a Miscellaneous Special 10 Fund, which is the Criminal Justice 11 Improvement Account, and puts it in the 12 General Fund. And in the Indigent Legal 13 Services Fund, takes it out of that fund, puts 14 it in the General Fund. And something I know 15 Senator Young would probably be concerned 16 with, that's $600,000 from an Agency 17 Enterprise Fund, Farm Program Account, to the 18 General Fund. And there's pages of all of 19 these things that go on. 20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yeah, it 21 is. It's a lot of money. 22 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: So these 23 funds, Senator -- I'm sorry, Madam President, 24 would the Senator continue to yield?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Senator, 2 once again, to the best of my knowledge, these 3 transfers and these funds are done every year. 4 This is nothing different, nothing strange, 5 nothing new, nothing different than was done 6 when you did the budget last year and for the 7 previous years. 8 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: So in this 9 budget today, for 2009-2010, these funds are 10 being taken out of specific accounts for 11 specific programs today and being put into the 12 General Fund? 13 I'm sorry, Madam President, will he 14 continue to yield? 15 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: No, they 16 don't all go into the General Fund, Senator. 17 Through you, Madam President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 19 Thank you, Senator Kruger. 20 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: I'm sorry, 21 Madam President? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 23 Would you repeat your answer, Senator? 24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 through you, Madam President, they are not all 2 going into the General Fund. 3 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: No, I -- 4 Madam President, will the Senator continue to 5 yield? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 7 Senator, will you continue to yield? 8 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I 9 will. 10 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you, 11 Senator Kruger. No, I know that. And I only 12 picked the ones that are going to the General 13 Fund. 14 But to just ask my question, and I 15 think I'm finished, the ones I mentioned are 16 coming out of specific accounts that I 17 mentioned and going into the General Fund; 18 correct? 19 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes. 20 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay. Thank 21 you very much, Senator Kruger. 22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you. 23 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Just on the 24 bill.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 I just want to reiterate, Madam 2 President, that the prosecutors are the 3 prosecutors, just as doctors are doctors. And 4 if you need medical advice, I'm not going to 5 go to the Governor for medical advice, I'm 6 going to go to a doctor. 7 If I need advice from a prosecutor, 8 with all due respect, I'm not going to come 9 here to the Senate or the Assembly or to the 10 Governor. I'm going to go a prosecutor. 11 Because they're on the front line every single 12 day prosecuting cases and defending our 13 families throughout New York State. 14 And yet the letters, the comments, 15 the calls, the emails, the visits to this 16 chamber, outside the chamber, in the lobby, to 17 our offices, where the prosecutors came and 18 said this bill, if enacted, Governor 19 Paterson's bill, if enacted, will put drug 20 dealers out on the street and will jeopardize 21 all our families. 22 Thank you, Madam President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 24 Thank you, Senator.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Diaz, on the bill. 2 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, Madam 3 President. Through you, Madam President, will 4 Senator Schneiderman yield for a question or 5 two? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 7 Senator Schneiderman, do you yield for a 8 question? 9 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 10 you, Madam President, I will yield for a 11 question. 12 SENATOR DIAZ: Senator 13 Schneiderman, you are a lawyer. You are such 14 a good lawyer that you were mentioned as a 15 possible candidacy to fill the vacancy in the 16 Manhattan DA's office. So you are a lawyer. 17 But I'm not a lawyer. 18 And obviously, over there, they are 19 confusing violent with nonviolent. Will you 20 as a lawyer tell me, please, what is the 21 difference between a nonviolent crime and a 22 violent crime? 23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 24 you, Madam President. There's an extensive

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 set of definitions in the law as to what 2 constitutes violent crime and nonviolent 3 crime. 4 And I would like to emphasize, 5 because sometimes our rhetoric breaks outside 6 the boundaries of the actual legislation that 7 we're talking about, that there is no one 8 eligible for the judicial diversion to drug 9 treatment program that is enacted through this 10 legislation who has ever been convicted of any 11 violent crime. No one convicted of assault, 12 of robbery, anything else. 13 It is also true that people who are 14 convicted of sex offenses, even if they're 15 nonviolent, are excluded from this program. 16 This is a program designed to get at people 17 who are drug addicts who commit nonviolent 18 crimes because of their addiction, whether it 19 is a drug crime or a nonviolent property 20 crime. The only people eligible for this 21 diversion program -- which will get more 22 people off drugs and out of the cycle of 23 criminality and will make all of us safer, are 24 nonviolent criminals.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DIAZ: Through you, Madam 2 President, would the Senator still yield for 3 another question? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 5 Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to 6 yield? 7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will 8 yield, Madam President. 9 SENATOR DIAZ: So, Senator, you 10 are telling me -- because I heard the other 11 side saying that criminals and killers and 12 murderers are going to be let go loose and 13 that the streets are going to be filled with 14 criminals, killers. Are you telling me that 15 this is not so? 16 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 17 you, Madam President. I'm telling you not 18 only is that not so, but that I have a 19 tremendous amount of confidence and that I 20 think my colleagues, once things cool down and 21 they get a chance to actually assess the 22 proposed program, I have a lot of confidence 23 that my colleagues will conclude that a 24 diversion program where treatment

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 professionals assess a substance abuse problem 2 and judges, after input from prosecutors, are 3 able to send drug-addicted criminals into the 4 best treatment programs available in our state 5 through the tight supervision of a drug court 6 model, will absolutely decrease crime in this 7 state and make all of us safer. 8 This is not something to put more 9 criminals on the street, this is something 10 that will absolutely reduce the number of 11 criminals on our streets. And there is no 12 violent criminal who will be let out of prison 13 or diverted from prison under this 14 legislation. 15 SENATOR DIAZ: Madam President, 16 through you, will Senator Schneiderman yield 17 for another question, please? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 19 Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to 20 yield? 21 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will 22 yield for another question, Madam President. 23 SENATOR DIAZ: Senator, you know, 24 I have to get it clear in my head. You are

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 telling me that what we heard from that side 2 that we are cutting criminals loose, killers, 3 and that the people should panic because we're 4 sending people into the street, killers, 5 you're telling me that's a lie? 6 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Well, 7 through you, Madam President, I'm not saying 8 that it's a lie, but it's certainly not true. 9 SENATOR DIAZ: Madam President, 10 through you, would the Senator yield for 11 another question? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 13 Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to 14 yield? 15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will 16 yield for another question, Madam President. 17 SENATOR DIAZ: Through you, Madam 18 President. Senator Schneiderman, now you have 19 to define for me the difference between not 20 true and a lie. 21 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I think 22 we're -- although I am lawyer, we may be 23 headed into territory over which you have more 24 jurisdiction than I do, Reverend.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 (Laughter.) 2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: But I 3 think there may be people who are mistaken, 4 there may be people who have heard things from 5 folks who have a particular ax to grind here 6 who are not fully disclosing all the facts. 7 Let's stick with what's true. I do 8 believe that most of my colleagues, when they 9 have a chance to assess this after the heat of 10 the moment wears off, will understand how good 11 a program this is. It is clearly the case 12 that this is a program for nonviolent 13 offenders whose primary problem is drug 14 addiction. 15 And I will say to you, Senator -- 16 through you, Madam President -- 30 years ago 17 we did not have the empirical evidence and the 18 experience in drug treatment to be able to say 19 what we can say today with confidence. What 20 we can say today with confidence is the drug 21 court model, the treatment programs we have in 22 New York State, can absolutely get people off 23 drugs, reduce crime, reduce addiction, reduce 24 recidivism. We are confident this can work.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 And I would urge the Senator and 2 all of my colleagues to take the evidence of 3 the last 30 years and not be blinded by 4 headlines, not be blinded by any sort of 5 extremism. This is a sound program that will 6 work. And I would urge anyone who has any 7 questions to take a look at the work of the 8 Sentencing Reform Commission, which did indeed 9 form the basis for this proposal. 10 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, 11 Senator. 12 Madam President, through you, would 13 Senator Sampson yield for a question or two? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 15 Senator Diaz, the rules do not permit Senator 16 Sampson, who has not spoken on the bill, to 17 reply to a question. But you can certainly 18 speak on the bill if you'd like. 19 SENATOR DIAZ: Through you, Madam 20 President. Would Senator Schneiderman please 21 come back and yield for another question or 22 two? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 24 Senator Schneiderman, do you yield for a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 question? 2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will 3 yield for another question, Madam President. 4 SENATOR DIAZ: Senator, tell me 5 about the Rockefeller drug laws. When a 6 person is arrested and is accused of 7 possessing 2 ounces of heroin, what is the 8 penalty for that? Under the Rockefeller drug 9 laws, what is the penalty for a person that 10 possesses 2 ounces of heroin? 11 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Under the 12 Rockefeller drug laws as enacted, 3 1/2 to 12 13 years would be the minimum sentence. 14 SENATOR DIAZ: Three and a half 15 to 12 years. 16 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: That would 17 be the minimum. 18 SENATOR DIAZ: Through you, Madam 19 President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 21 Would you like the Senator to continue to 22 yield? 23 SENATOR DIAZ: Those 3 1/2 to 12 24 years, mandatory, no parole, no -- it's

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 mandatory, or do we go -- 2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 3 you, Madam President, that was the design of 4 the Rockefeller drug laws, was to have 5 absolute mandatory minimums. That's why so 6 many judges protested. No matter what your 7 circumstances, you would have a minimum of 8 3 1/2 to 12 years. 9 SENATOR DIAZ: Through you, Madam 10 President, will Senator Schneiderman still 11 yield? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 13 Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to 14 yield? 15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, I 16 will continue to yield. 17 SENATOR DIAZ: If I go into a 18 bodega -- through a taxi driver -- and then go 19 boom-boom-boom and shoot someone, and they 20 confuse me of criminal intention, murder, or 21 something like that, manslaughter, what would 22 be my penalty? 23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Well, 24 through you, Madam President, it would depend

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 on which of those you're accused of. Man two, 2 I think that the minimum sentence is 3 probation. Man one is a B violent, so -- the 4 mandatory for man one, that would be a 5 mandatory prison sentence of three years. 6 SENATOR SALAND: Point of order. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 8 Senator Saland, why do you rise? 9 SENATOR SALAND: Just simply 10 because if you walk into a bodega, take a gun 11 and go boom-boom-boom, that's not going to be 12 manslaughter. That's all. Thank you. 13 (Laughter.) 14 SENATOR DIAZ: Madam President, 15 through you. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 17 I think that was just a point of clarification 18 there. 19 (Laughter.) 20 SENATOR DIAZ: Madam President, 21 through you. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 23 Senator, you would like Senator Schneiderman 24 to continue to yield?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 3 Senator Schneiderman, will you continue to 4 yield? 5 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, I 6 will continue to yield, Madam President. 7 SENATOR DIAZ: Senator 8 Schneiderman -- through you, Madam President. 9 Senator Schneiderman, I don't understand this. 10 I'm confused. You're telling me that a person 11 who is accused of manslaughter that shoots 12 someone will get a less sentence than a person 13 that is arrested with also some marijuana -- I 14 mean, of heroin? 15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 16 you, Madam President, manslaughter two has a 17 shorter minimum sentence than if you're a 18 B offender for drug possession. That was 19 correct under the Rockefeller drug laws. 20 There are a wide variety of violent crimes 21 that have shorter mandatory minimum sentences 22 than drug crimes under the Rockefeller drug 23 laws. 24 We are seeking to change that. We

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 made some changes in 2004 and 2005, and today 2 we are reducing the mandatory minimums for 3 certain other nonviolent drug offenses. 4 SENATOR DIAZ: Madam President, 5 through you. Last question, if the honorable 6 Senator agrees to yield one more time. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 8 Senator Schneiderman, will you yield for one 9 last question from Senator Diaz? 10 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Madam 11 President, I will yield for one last question. 12 SENATOR DIAZ: Senator and 13 colleagues and Madam President, through you, I 14 heard Senator Golden say hopefully -- no, that 15 was Senator DeFrancisco, I'm sorry. Senator 16 DeFrancisco, in his beautiful speech before, 17 he said, Madam President, hopefully someone in 18 the other aisle -- referring to us 19 Democrats -- he said hopefully someone in that 20 aisle will understand -- that's what he said, 21 and Senator Golden said -- I hope that someone 22 in that aisle, referring to us Democrats, 23 stand up and do the right thing. The two of 24 them said that.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 And now Senator Schneiderman is 2 telling me that a person with intent to kill 3 someone will get a less sentence -- 4 manslaughter, person with a manslaughter -- 5 accused of manslaughter will get a less 6 penalty, a less penalty than somebody that is 7 caught with 2 ounces of heroin. 8 So now, Senator Schneiderman, my 9 question. Who should stand up and do the 10 right thing, and hopefully who should 11 understand this? 12 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you. 13 Through you, Madam President. We should all 14 stand up and do the right thing. And everyone 15 should understand, and I hope everyone 16 understands more clearly now. Thank you, 17 Madam President. 18 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you. On the 19 bill. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 21 Senator Diaz, on the bill. 22 SENATOR DIAZ: I'm a black guy 23 from Puerto Rico. Kinky hair, from the South 24 Bronx, listening to all the geniuses here

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 telling us why this law should not go through. 2 According to the law, Madam 3 President, ladies and gentlemen, we are only 4 asking to do the right thing. And what is the 5 right thing? 6 The right thing is that we have 7 committed an injustice, injustice in this 8 state. That injustice was written -- was 9 signed by a guy named Nelson Rockefeller. And 10 we call that Rockefeller drug laws. And 11 that's an injustice. Injustice because a 12 person that is caught with 2 ounces of 13 heroin -- by the way (indicating), this is 14 sugar. Sugar here. 15 (Laughter.) 16 SENATOR DIAZ: This is sugar. 17 But this is 2 ounces. Let's make believe that 18 this is heroin here. Again, Madam President, 19 sugar. I want to make that clear. But this 20 is 2 ounces. And I want you to see, on the 21 other side. Maybe hopefully someone -- 22 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 23 Senator Diaz -- 24 SENATOR DIAZ: I'm speaking here.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 2 No, this might help you. We're not allowed to 3 use props. So put that away. 4 SENATOR DIAZ: I'm sorry. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 6 Okay. 7 SENATOR DIAZ: But no, no, I just 8 wanted to show them that. We're not allowed 9 to -- I'm not allowed to show you this 10 (indicating). 11 But -- and I'm showing this because 12 hopefully -- hopefully -- someone, someone in 13 that aisle will finally understand. Maybe 14 someone in that aisle will stand up and do the 15 right thing. 16 And what is the right thing? The 17 right thing is to correct an injustice. An 18 injustice that has been done in this state for 19 people that are being punished more for 20 possession of an ounce of heroin than someone 21 that is even -- a man that is accused of 22 manslaughter. 23 So, ladies and gentlemen, this is a 24 good bill, a good bill to correct a big

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 injustice. And you should understand that. 2 Simple as that, simple. Don't talk no more. 3 Don't find faults. This is an injustice. 4 People have been sent to jail for 15 years 5 just for possession, while some criminal, real 6 criminal, real criminals, are being given 7 one-year probation. That's an injustice. And 8 we should all be willing to correct that 9 injustice. 10 We are not asking anyone to release 11 criminals. And don't stand over there and say 12 to the camera and to the people in your 13 neighborhood: Oh, criminals are going to go 14 into the street, oh, we are going to have 15 murders and killers. That's not so, and you 16 know that. 17 So stop and let's stop this and 18 let's go to the bottom of the merengue. And 19 the bottom of the merengue is that an 20 injustice has been committed and that this 21 Democratic Senate and this Democratic 22 Conference is telling the whole State of 23 New York: Join us, join us and correct this 24 injustice.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Punishment should be equal to the 2 crime. And we have here penalties that's 3 unequal to the crime. People getting a free 4 ride for assaulting and killing, and other 5 people going to jail for 15 years and seven 6 years for possession of heroin. And that's 7 not a violent crime. We are asking only the 8 violent. 9 And, Mr. -- don't start up, because 10 I'm yielding. I'm not yielding to anyone. 11 I'm here talking the way you're talking. I'm 12 saying -- 13 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 14 Senator Golden, why do you rise? 15 SENATOR GOLDEN: I was going to 16 ask Senator Diaz if he'll yield for a 17 question. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 19 Senator Diaz, will you yield for a question? 20 SENATOR DIAZ: Maybe I will yield 21 after Senator Golden stands and do the right 22 thing. Then I will yield, but not now. But 23 maybe he's looking -- 24 SENATOR GOLDEN: Madam President,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 I am standing to do the right thing. So if 2 the good Senator -- 3 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 4 Senator Diaz, will you yield for a question? 5 SENATOR DIAZ: To my colleague 6 from Brooklyn, the beautiful colleague from 7 Brooklyn, yes. 8 SENATOR GOLDEN: Madam President, 9 to the good Senator Diaz, we put up props and 10 we display what turns out to be sugar but was 11 alluded to could be heroin, pure heroin. 12 And I wonder if my good colleague, 13 Madam President, understands how many kids 14 could be addicted because of those to two 15 little props that he put up there, if in fact 16 they were pure heroin. And does my dear 17 colleague understand how many kids would die 18 because of those two little props that could 19 have been pure heroin? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 21 Senator Diaz. 22 SENATOR DIAZ: If my colleague 23 understands that we are committing an 24 injustice to send that little kid that might

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 be possessing that ounce of heroin to 15 years 2 in jail and be separated from their parents 3 and from their community and from their -- for 4 that time. 5 But yes, you -- my colleague, you 6 are right. But you have to stand up, do the 7 right thing, and let's correct this injustice. 8 You and I together -- Republicans, Democrats 9 together -- correcting an injustice in the 10 State of New York that has been done to many 11 people. Too many people are suffering. Too 12 many families have been broken down. Too many 13 people -- and now we're using this to attack 14 the immigrants. Come on, let's stop this 15 thing. 16 Thank you, Madam. Thank you for 17 time. And by the way, as always, you're 18 looking there good there with your trademark. 19 Thank you. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 21 Senator Espada, on the bill, please. 22 SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you, Madam 23 President. 24 You know, I'm very privileged to be

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 able to speak after Senator Diaz. He's the 2 first person that represents the voice of the 3 90 percent that were disproportionately 4 impacted over 36 years with respect to this 5 policy. 6 But let me first start with giving 7 praise, too, to the Legislature over a series 8 of sessions for making some changes to the 9 so-called Rockefeller drug laws. 10 But let me give special praise to 11 my colleague Senator Schneiderman, because 12 Senator Schneiderman's passion for this has 13 been duly noted. 14 But I want to go on record as a 15 person that is a child of the '60s, when this 16 heroin invaded our communities. I came from 17 Puerto Rico, as did Senator Diaz. We settled 18 in in the South Bronx. There were not just 19 Puerto Ricans or African-Americans, it was a 20 heterogeneous community, a diverse community. 21 The civil rights movement, the 22 blackout, we're moving into the late '60s now. 23 And all of a sudden -- none of us grew up with 24 heroin in Puerto Rico. I grew up in Coamo,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 you grew up in Bayamon. We didn't grow up 2 with that. We didn't even know what it was. 3 But we're here in the South Bronx, 4 and all of a sudden there was an invasion of 5 this white powder, an invasion of it. And I 6 know that there was a primal scream, a primal 7 scream for someone to do something about this. 8 There was the usual get 'em, lock 'em up 9 mentality, and it won. It won over people in 10 our communities, it won people votes and 11 passions throughout this state. 12 And so here we are, 36 years later, 13 still with the scales of justice tilted way 14 against, way against the 90 percent nonviolent 15 drug addicts that are in jail. 16 And so Senator Schneiderman, as a 17 lawyer, has done an excellent job of going 18 through the elements. He warned us against 19 political pandering, but we didn't listen. 20 The elements -- judicial diversion, treatment 21 programs, drug courts. The elements, judicial 22 discretion. 23 And I want to pause there, because 24 we made a judge, the most powerful judge,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Judge Lippmann, just a couple of weeks ago the 2 presiding judge of the Courts of Appeals, the 3 highest courts of this state. He absolutely 4 has lived through the 36 years. He's in 5 charge of our justice system. He absolutely 6 sees, Senator Diaz, the injustice engrained in 7 this, institutionalized in this for too long, 8 for decades. 9 And so while we do find humor and 10 while we are asked to stand up and do the 11 right thing, because of a failure of a 12 one-year notification as it relates to the 13 minimum security prisons -- if this bill were 14 about that, you'd have my vote. If this bill 15 was simply about not having legislation that 16 doesn't belong in the budget in terms of 17 budget reform, you'd have my vote. 18 But let me voice my disappointment 19 in the fact that no one -- and Senator Diaz 20 has his way of bringing out the truth in a lot 21 of these matters. But the bare essence of 22 that truth is that no one has spoken to the 23 fact that this has created racial disparities. 24 Let's be clear about that.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 We don't want to talk about that, 2 we don't want to pander to that. But just as 3 President Obama got on TV several months ago 4 and spoke truth to the racial divisions and 5 the racial injustice that's institutionalized 6 as real, we need to be real. 7 And if you're going to call on 8 honesty and bravery and courage and 9 independence on this side of the aisle, you're 10 absolutely right, we need to call it on the 11 house in general. 12 And on the house in general, if 13 we're to weigh this issue and what it has 14 done, I'm not a lawyer, but the codification 15 of these issues of severe collateral damage -- 16 as a social worker, as a parent, as a 17 grandparent, we can speak to collateral 18 damage. 19 For every mother and father that 20 took up residence that was a nonviolent drug 21 addict and took up residence way up north, way 22 away from New York City, a long way from the 23 eight Assembly districts that make up the 24 highest percentage of inmates in New York

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 State prisons, there was a lot of collateral 2 damage. There were children and grandchildren 3 and foster care that made their way into our 4 budgets here for sure. We pay a lot for that 5 collateral damage. 6 But thanks to this legislation, 7 we're now at a point where we will "Drop the 8 Rock." We won't have to talk about this 9 anymore after today. And I think that 10 deserves praise, Senator Schneiderman. You 11 have authored landmark legislation that has 12 cured the ills that so many have suffered 13 throughout the decades. 14 Now, I know that folks were reading 15 different things, and I get my turn now. This 16 is from Newsday, a newspaper that does not 17 circulate much in the districts that we 18 represent. 19 But it says: "After growing up in 20 Syosset and Hewlett, Eric Marsh hoped to 21 inherit his father's truck dealership. 22 "But somewhere along the way, 23 cocaine beckoned. 24 "As Marsh cared for a brother who

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 was dying from AIDS in 1990, he also developed 2 a cocaine habit, capping a relationship with 3 illegal drugs that began in his late teens. 4 "Soon, Marsh says, two friends were 5 charged with selling a little more than 6 2 ounces of cocaine to a Nassau undercover 7 police officer. To avoid prison, Marsh said 8 one of them turned police informer and said 9 Marsh had sold him the cocaine. 10 "The Rockefeller drug laws allowed 11 reduced sentences for defendants who 12 cooperated in drug cases, and the friend 13 received probation. 14 "Quotes Marsh, 'I wasn't guilty of 15 the charge. I was basically guilty of making 16 poor judgments in my friendships.'. 17 "But a Nassau jury believed the 18 prosecutors and found Marsh, then 35, guilty. 19 Under the strict Rockefeller drug laws, Marsh 20 received a mandatory minimum sentence of 21 15 years to life in prison. It was his first 22 brush with the law. 23 "'They put me in handcuffs and I 24 was locked up for 11 years, two months and

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 three days,' Marsh said. 2 "While serving time, Marsh earned a 3 bachelor's degree in psychology through Marist 4 College's prison program. His father and 5 mother both died while he was in jail. 6 "'It devastated my family,' Marsh 7 said. 'No parent wants to see their child go 8 to prison for a disease.'. 9 "In 2002, Marsh asked Governor 10 George Pataki for clemency, citing good 11 behavior in prison and his psychology degree. 12 On Christmas Eve 2002, Pataki granted Marsh 13 clemency. On January 16, 2003, he left 14 prison. 15 "While jailed, Marsh said, 'I had 16 many months of boredom peppered with moments 17 of sheer terror.'. 18 "After his release, Marsh stayed 19 with friends in Blue Point. He has 20 occasionally visited friends who remained in 21 prison, and has since earned a master's in 22 education from Hunter College. 23 "Today, Marsh, 52, is assistant 24 clinical director for a Queens mental health

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 program. He still insists he was unjustly 2 imprisoned. 3 "But he also said, 'They certainly 4 gave me new purpose. I had enough smarts to 5 become what I am now.'" 6 And so for the many Eric Marshes, 7 for the women that were made into drug mules 8 that never got their day in court, and so many 9 other families -- and, as I said earlier, the 10 collateral damages that have accrued -- this 11 is a new day. This is a new day of freedom 12 for a lot of folks that have been imprisoned 13 unjustly that will lead, as Mr. Eric Marsh, 14 productive lives when they get out. They will 15 lead productive lives when they get treatment 16 for a disease. 17 I thank you, Senator Schneiderman. 18 And like Senator Diaz, I ask us to 19 put away the pandering, to put away the 20 politics of fear, and really invest in this 21 program, because it will save generations and 22 restore a degree of decency and fairness to 23 our system of jurisprudence. 24 Thank you, Madam President.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 2 Thank you, Senator. 3 Senator Little, on the bill. 4 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you, Madam 5 President. 6 If I may, I would like to return to 7 the budget elements of this bill, since that 8 is supposed to be the main focus of the bills 9 that we're doing today. 10 Would Senator Carl Kruger respond 11 to a question, please? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 13 Senator Kruger, will you yield for a question? 14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Absolutely, 15 Madam President. 16 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you, 17 Senator. 18 In the Governor's bill that was 19 presented in December, there were four 20 minimum-security prison closures, including 21 Camp Gabriels in my district. And the reason 22 given was that there were not enough 23 minimum-security inmates. This budget only 24 closes three of those camps. Has there been

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 an increase in minimum-security prison 2 inmates? 3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 4 you, Madam President, if we were to refer to 5 the bill itself and to refer to the reports 6 surrounding the determinations, we would 7 quickly learn that those camps that you're 8 referring to were severely underutilized. 9 And what we have done is that we 10 have consolidated those camps into one 11 facility. And by doing such, we are going to 12 be able to save approximately $7.7 million out 13 of the 2009-2010 budget. 14 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you, Madam 15 President. Would Senator Kruger yield? 16 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Excuse me, 17 Senator Little, I take that back. It's 18 actually in excess of $12.5 million. 19 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you. 20 Would the Senator yield for another question? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 22 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 24 Madam President.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you. 2 Senator Kruger, can you tell me 3 what criteria was used to determine which 4 facility would be kept open? 5 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 6 you, Madam President, I would suggest that 7 geography was a main factor in making that 8 determination. 9 SENATOR LITTLE: And could you 10 tell me what location -- the location of that 11 facility and the name of it that's being 12 saved? 13 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: The camp 14 that is going to remain open -- I don't know, 15 does the word "saved" mean open? 16 SENATOR LITTLE: To me, it's 17 saved. 18 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: All right. 19 And to me, it's open. 20 Through you, Madam President, Camp 21 Georgetown will remain open because it is 22 18 miles from the closed facility. 23 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you. 24 Another question, if I may.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 2 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 4 Madam President. 5 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you. 6 Senator Kruger, can you tell me what the 7 timeline is for the closure of Camp Gabriels 8 at this point? 9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Immediately 10 within the next 90 days. Through you, Madam 11 President. 12 SENATOR LITTLE: So that would be 13 immediately being June 30th, July 1st? 14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 15 you, Madam President. From the passage of 16 this budget hopefully before midnight tonight. 17 SENATOR LITTLE: Well, this -- 18 excuse me, but through you, Madam President. 19 I believe that in this bill an adaptive reuse 20 plan has to be submitted by -- there's some 21 point. October, is that correct? 22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 23 you, Madam President, after the closure of 24 that facility, a plan will be presented by

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 October 1st of this year. 2 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you. 3 Madam President, through you, another 4 question, if I may. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 6 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 7 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 8 SENATOR LITTLE: So am I correct 9 in saying that this facility will be 10 mothballed and closed down for a 11 several-months period while you determine what 12 its reuse will be? 13 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Well, 14 through you, Madam President. I guess when, 15 you know, when we start dealing with the 16 pejorative of what "mothballed" means -- 17 SENATOR LITTLE: Closed. 18 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: -- I really 19 can't answer that. But through you, Madam 20 President, if we want to talk about 21 decommissioning the facility as we move 22 forward with a plan for retooling it for 23 future use, then I guess that would be an 24 appropriate answer to your question.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you. And 2 through you, Madam President, I just assumed 3 that you would have to close down the entire 4 facility or secure it so that it wouldn't be 5 damaged, keep some kind of presence there 6 while you await a reuse plan. Is that 7 correct? 8 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 9 you, Madam President. In all due respect, 10 Senator, you know, we here in the Senate 11 really do not dictate the methodology that the 12 Department of Correction uses in 13 decommissioning a facility. I would hope that 14 they secure it and treat it respectfully so 15 that it's protected and it can be reopened at 16 a future date. 17 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you. But 18 there is a cost to doing that. 19 Another question, if I may, through 20 you, Madam President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 22 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 24 SENATOR LITTLE: In this reform

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 or drug law change that we have in this bill, 2 can you tell me approximately how many inmates 3 would be eligible for a resentencing program 4 that are currently serving in prison? 5 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 6 you, Madam President. Based upon, once again, 7 information that's supplied to us, we're 8 taking the position that approximately 1600 9 people would fall into that broad category. 10 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you. 11 And through you, Madam President, I 12 would assume that many of these inmates were 13 in prison for drug-related infractions. And 14 it's my understanding that an inmate is not 15 required to do a drug and alcohol program 16 until they are within 18 months of their first 17 possible release from prison. 18 So would these inmates in a 19 resentencing program be put out on the street 20 without a drug and alcohol rehab program? 21 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 22 you, Madam President. Within the spirit and 23 the intent of the program, it is clearly 24 suggested that the component of this is an

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 alcohol and drug rehab program. 2 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you. And 3 one more question, through you. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 5 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 6 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: With 7 pleasure. 8 SENATOR LITTLE: Do you have 9 enough drug and alcohol programs within the 10 prison system to accommodate these inmates? 11 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 12 you, Madam President. Within the context of 13 the budget, there's approximately $33 million 14 that is going to OASAS by the use of stimulus 15 money that would be dedicated towards these 16 programs over a two-year period. 17 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you. 18 On the bill, Madam President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 20 Senator Little, on the bill. 21 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you. 22 This Camp Gabriels, which is in my 23 district, is, as I said, in a very small 24 community, and it's also within the Adirondack

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Park. And the Adirondack Park has many, many 2 restrictions as far as any business coming in 3 and has to be permitted for everything that 4 they do. It's very expensive and costly for a 5 business to come into the Adirondack Park. 6 And there are few and far between who come in 7 and begin a brand-new business. 8 But in light of that, this camp was 9 mentioned in last year's budget, and we were 10 able to secure the funding to keep that prison 11 camp open. However, I knew and the community 12 knew that we needed to find a reuse for that 13 camp, an expansion of the transitional 14 programs that they have there, to make it into 15 a reentry program that it could be. 16 To say that the numbers were down 17 and that the camp was not at full capacity is 18 determined by the Department of Corrections. 19 The inmates don't decide where they would like 20 to go; the Department of Corrections decides 21 where they will send them. So it's very easy 22 to drop the capacity at a facility. 23 The community together worked to 24 come up with a plan. Once the plan was put

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 together and, again, we saw that Camp Gabriels 2 was in the Governor's budget, we contacted the 3 Department of Corrections. And actually, the 4 commissioner of corrections visited Camp 5 Gabriels with us and listened to the plan last 6 July. 7 The plan is to have St. Joseph's 8 Drug and Alcohol Rehab, which is an 9 OASAS-certified program, provide drug and 10 alcohol treatment at the facility. Their 11 programs have about a 25 percent recidivism 12 rate, and their programs are only nine months 13 long instead of 18 months long. So the 14 18-month program, which costs the State of 15 New York I think it's $67,000 for an inmate 16 over the course of 18 months, could be 17 shortened to nine months, and we actually show 18 a savings. 19 This is a good program. The 20 inmates would still have their work-release 21 programs during the day, be out in the 22 community and doing all of that. 23 In addition to that, we brought in 24 Paul Smith's College, which is a culinary

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 school, and it's just up the road. That 2 college looked at the kitchen, and for $50,000 3 they could put in a vo-tech program on food 4 prep, hospitality services, and all kinds of 5 things to train these inmates so that not only 6 would they get the drug and alcohol treatment, 7 they would be able to find a job when they 8 left the facility. 9 We also have worked -- we have 10 North Country Community College. We have done 11 everything we could. And Senator Ruth 12 Hassell-Thompson, certainly to her credit, 13 went with me to Camp Gabriels just a couple of 14 weeks ago to see the facility, to listen to 15 the programs. 16 We presented the program. We've 17 showed the cost savings. We've shown how this 18 program can really and truly help inmates with 19 their drug and alcohol programs, as well as do 20 some vocational programs and reentry programs. 21 So I can't tell you how 22 disappointed I am -- I can tell you. I'm 23 extremely disappointed that Camp Gabriels is 24 not the camp that is chosen to stay open. We

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 presented so many plans and so many 2 opportunities for that. We are in an 3 economically distressed area. There is 4 nothing else. When that facility is closed 5 this summer, we have no other opportunity for 6 anything to go in there due to the nature, the 7 location, and the fact that they're in the 8 Adirondack Park. 9 So I just encourage you to take a 10 look at this and the adaptive reuse plan. You 11 need to come up with something, but do not 12 close it in the meantime. See that we can 13 work in facility into an adaptive reuse 14 program going straight from what we have there 15 into that program. 16 And I would encourage you, and I 17 would work with you, whatever we can do. But 18 it is extremely disappointing to have this 19 facility closed. 20 Thank you. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 22 Senator Lanza. 23 SENATOR LANZA: Thank you, Madam 24 President. Madam President, would Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Schneiderman yield for a series of questions? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 3 Senator Schneiderman, will you yield for 4 questions? 5 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 6 Madam President, I'd be happy to. 7 SENATOR LANZA: Thank you. 8 Through you, Madam President. Senator 9 Schneiderman, why did you decide to place this 10 package of legislation in the budget as 11 opposed to having it come to this floor as 12 stand-alone legislation? 13 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 14 you, Madam President, that was not actually a 15 decision that I was empowered to make. But 16 the way this evolved, as I understand it, is 17 that there were proposals for Rockefeller 18 reform moving around. The Assembly introduced 19 a bill and passed it very quickly. When 20 negotiations were ongoing, the Governor came 21 up with a proposal different from this but 22 somewhere in between the Sentencing 23 Commission's proposal for judicial diversion 24 and the one that appears in this legislation.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 And then our conference leader, 2 Senator Malcolm Smith, I think this was 3 probably about a month ago, issued a 4 statement, I think there was a press release 5 with several of us on it, saying that our 6 conference took the position that we did not 7 want to do Rockefeller reform without 8 guaranteeing that the funding necessary to 9 make that reform work was available. 10 And among the items that were cited 11 in that statement, which I commend to you and 12 I think it was a very important statement and 13 a very important part of the debate that we've 14 gone through in the last couple of months 15 about this, were several elements. 16 First of all, that we had to have 17 the money for treatment, because otherwise 18 we're asking judges to divert people into 19 treatment slots that don't exist. 20 Second of all, we had to have 21 funding for local governments. Because one 22 aspect of this, and I think Senator Fuschillo 23 pointed this out, one aspect of Rockefeller 24 reform is if you make more people eligible for

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 probation, with drug treatment as a condition 2 of the probation, you're requiring local 3 governments to spend more money on probation. 4 So Senator Smith said we need more money for 5 treatment, we need more money for local 6 governments. 7 And, finally, we need to make sure 8 we have economic development resources 9 committed to the communities that might be 10 adversely affected by a reduction in prison 11 population. And at that point I think that 12 the legislation moved into the debate around 13 the budget cycle. 14 And I'm very pleased to report that 15 in fact in this legislation and the 16 appropriation bill that's attached to it, we 17 have a commitment for $71.6 million over a 18 two-year period to make this program work. 19 So that's my understanding of how 20 it evolved into a part of the budget. 21 SENATOR LANZA: Madam President, 22 would Senator Schneiderman continue to yield? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 24 Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 yield? 2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will. 3 SENATOR LANZA: Through you, 4 Madam President. Senator Schneiderman, do you 5 know or did you have a commitment from the 6 members of your conference that had this 7 legislation been put to the floor as 8 stand-alone legislation that each member would 9 have voted in favor of it? 10 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 11 you, Madam President, the issue never came up 12 because it was negotiated as a part of the 13 budget. 14 I am confident that we could pass 15 this. And in fact, I think if we had some 16 more time to talk about it, I firmly believe 17 we could pick up a few members of Senator 18 Lanza's conference. 19 SENATOR LANZA: Thank you, Madam 20 President. On the bill. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 22 Senator Lanza, on the bill. 23 SENATOR LANZA: Madam President, 24 first let me say that I have enormous respect

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 for Senator Schneiderman, his intellect, the 2 dedication he brings to this issue, and with 3 respect to his expertise. We just have two 4 different approaches. 5 And that's not necessarily a bad 6 thing; that's why we have these discussions 7 and these debates and, in my humble opinion, 8 why we should have had greater discussion and 9 debate on this issue. 10 I come to this issue with some 11 experience, as a former prosecutor in the 12 Manhattan district attorney's office, working 13 for Robert Morgenthau, working with folks like 14 John Kennedy, Jr., in a place where 15 Republicans and Democrats came together, bound 16 by the desire to keep the public safe and to 17 administer justice. 18 I believe that one of government's 19 fundamental responsibilities is, as I know 20 Senator Schneiderman agrees, public safety. I 21 believe that this legislation represents a 22 very dangerous retreat in that regard. 23 Someone else who worked in the Manhattan 24 district attorney's office is a good friend of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 mine. He's Dan Donovan. He's the Richmond 2 County, Staten Island, district attorney. 3 He's also the president of the District 4 Attorneys Association of the State of 5 New York. 6 There was talk earlier of this 7 being some sort of power grab or that a 8 opposition to this legislation was an effort 9 to retain power. I can tell you that Dan 10 Donovan, our district attorney on Staten 11 Island, it is not about that. For him and for 12 the district attorney's office, district 13 attorneys across the state, their opposition 14 to this legislation is about compassion and 15 their sense of duty to protect families and 16 children from the ravages of the drug trade. 17 I have a letter from Dan Donovan, 18 District Attorney Donovan. I won't read all, 19 but I'd like to read some sentences from it. 20 It says: "As president of the District 21 Attorneys Association of the State of 22 New York, which represents the state's 62 23 elected district attorneys, I write to offer 24 the association's comments on the drug reform

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 bill. 2 "We believe that the bill does not 3 provide a structure for effective drug 4 rehabilitation programs and fails to 5 adequately protect public safety. The bill 6 undermines existing demonstrably successful 7 treatment programs and offers no incentive to 8 convince addicted offenders to enter and 9 remain in programs. In our experience, only 10 drug offenders who face the certainty of a 11 prison sentence are motivated to enter and to 12 complete rigorous treatment programs. 13 "The proposal is further flawed in 14 its authorization of nonjail sentences for 15 those convicted of selling cocaine and heroin, 16 even over the objection of district attorneys, 17 regardless of the number of times an offender 18 has been convicted of a narcotics felony. It 19 is the district attorney who is charged with 20 ensuring community safety, and it is the 21 district attorney who possesses the 22 information necessary to balance the propriety 23 of a nonjail sentence and public safety 24 concerns.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 "Moreover, the proposal could lead 2 to revolving-door justice, with drug sellers 3 repeatedly arrested and released, placing the 4 public at risk. It must be recognized that 5 many drug sellers commit that crime for profit 6 only, not as a result of or in support of 7 their own addictions. Instead, they sell 8 drugs to take advantage of the addiction of 9 others. There must be some assurance that 10 such individuals do not escape punishment, and 11 it is the district attorney who is best 12 positioned to do that. 13 "It requires further study" -- this 14 proposal -- "and should be discussed at an 15 open public hearing before it is considered by 16 the State Senate. There is no need to rush 17 the bill through only to regret the results 18 before the ink is dry." 19 There's been a lot of talk of the 20 failure of the present state of the law. This 21 section of the letter speaks to that. The 22 district attorney goes on to say: "The 23 success we have had over the last 20 years has 24 been ignored. The number of incarcerated drug

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 felons is at its lowest level in 20 years. 2 The overall prison population has declined to 3 levels not seen since 1991, and drug treatment 4 as an alternative to prison is increasingly 5 available. In fact, in 2008, more drug 6 offenders participated in drug treatment than 7 were sent to prison." 8 That seems to fly in the face of 9 everything we have heard with respect to the 10 justification and motivation for this 11 legislation that is here on the floor. 12 The district attorney goes on to 13 say: "The District Attorneys Association, 14 like the State Legislature and the Governor, 15 supports the need to provide alternatives to 16 incarceration opportunities without 17 compromising public safety. We have had 18 enormous success over the last 20 years. We 19 do not want to jeopardize that success by 20 enacting laws that will threaten public safety 21 and undermine drug treatment programs." 22 That's where the opposition today 23 is coming from. We don't want to jeopardize 24 the success that we have enjoyed in town after

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 town, city after city, all across this state. 2 We don't want to, as they say, Madam 3 President, throw the baby out with the 4 bathwater. 5 As Senator Fuschillo said, why are 6 we ignoring, why are we ignoring the 62 7 district attorneys across the state? Don't 8 they have something, some expertise, 9 experience, wisdom? Don't they have something 10 to add to this debate? Should not they have 11 been heard? Shouldn't we have had hearings? 12 Senator Schneiderman, I'm proud to 13 sit on the Codes Committee with you now chair. 14 I've watched as you've allowed vigorous and 15 thoughtful discussions and debates on the 16 various pieces of legislation which have come 17 through that committee so far. Why not allow 18 this legislation to come through your 19 committee, with your stewardship, with you as 20 the chair, and allow that debate? Why not let 21 us avoid a rush to judgment with something 22 that is so fundamentally important to our 23 responsibility to the people of this state? 24 Senator Diaz I don't see in the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 chamber. I hesitate to mention him without 2 him being here. I know he doesn't think this 3 is funny. But holding those two packets of 4 sugar here in the chamber I think sends the 5 wrong message. This is not funny. This is 6 far from funny. 7 The rest of the budget that we're 8 here to debate and discuss is about economics, 9 serious enough to the people of this state. 10 This issue is about life and death in our 11 state. It is about the future of this state 12 and the future of our neighborhoods. 13 I listened to Senator Diaz compare 14 certain crimes under the present statutes -- a 15 B felony, selling some drugs -- and saying, in 16 effect, would you believe they're trying to 17 compare this to manslaughter. You can get a 18 more serious sentence for selling drugs than 19 you could for manslaughter. 20 You know, I don't think that's such 21 a bad idea. And let me tell you why. Drug 22 dealers are murderers, as far as I'm 23 concerned, in many, many respects. As Senator 24 Golden said, those two glassines or those two

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ziplock bags containing sugar, if it was 2 heroin, represents the death of many of our 3 neighbors across this state. You allow a drug 4 dealer, God forbid, to sell drugs to one of my 5 children, you've taken them away from me. 6 You've in effect ended their lives. That's 7 what this is all about. 8 Would we rush to judgment, would we 9 put in the budget, as opposed to having it go 10 through the Codes Committee, legislation that 11 would reduce sentences for murderers, for 12 rapists, for burglars, for robbers? Of course 13 we wouldn't. That's what we're doing here 14 today without giving it adequate, thoughtful 15 analysis. 16 Senator Schneiderman, you earlier 17 discussed the statistic that 80 percent of 18 those incarcerated in our state have substance 19 abuse problems. That is a sad fact and one I 20 know to be true. Why would we want to allow 21 our streets to once again be flooded with 22 these substances and these narcotics, 23 polluting and destroying the lives of tens of 24 thousands more of our citizens who, based on

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 that statistic, would no doubt invariably, if 2 they survive, end up incarcerated? 3 There's another statistic that you 4 and I both know. Talk to law enforcement, 5 talk to prosecutors across the state, talk to 6 the tens of thousands of police officers and 7 troopers in our state, and they'll tell you 8 another fact. The vast majority of violent 9 crime has, as its root and source, narcotics. 10 So if we misstep here, if we rush to judgment 11 here, the results will be irreparable across 12 this state. 13 You know, the myth, the myth that 14 what we're doing here is to reform the 15 so-called Rockefeller drug laws I think has 16 been dispelled very well by my colleagues 17 Senator Volker, Senator Padavan, and others 18 who have spoken. It is a myth. It is 19 untruthful to tell the people of this state 20 that the laws we seek to amend today are the 21 same ones which were enacted in 1973. We all 22 know that that is not true. We all know that 23 there have been improvements to those laws 24 which were made by this Legislature to reflect

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 the realities of the times. 2 Senator Schneiderman -- through 3 you, Madam President -- I would join you, 4 members of this side of the aisle would join 5 you, gladly, to further make improvements that 6 are responsible and reasonable, that would try 7 to address the situation that Senator Espada 8 brought up. But again, we don't want to throw 9 out the baby with the bathwater. 10 There was talk of these drug laws 11 that we have on the books as being a pandering 12 to the public fear. We ought not pander to 13 any special interests. We ought not, 14 likewise, pander to a slogan, and that's what 15 Seems to be happening here. I see the pins 16 "Drop the Rock." I see them worn by people 17 who are too young to remember the times when 18 our streets and our neighborhoods and our 19 corners were owned, were owned by ruthless 20 drug dealers who peddled death. 21 But let's not forget where those 22 public fears came from. They came from the 23 reality of a problem that is real. 24 You know, I grew up in Staten

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Island, very fortunate, very blessed to grow 2 up there with a loving family. I had the 3 privilege of serving under Robert Morgenthau 4 in the Manhattan DA's office in Manhattan. I 5 had the opportunity to represent the people, 6 prosecuting hundreds and thousands of cases. 7 I remember once going to a crime 8 scene. It was a public housing complex. I'd 9 never been to one before. And what I saw 10 there were hundreds of some of the most 11 decent, law-abiding, salt-of-the-earth people 12 you can ever meet, many of whom told me that 13 they were being held hostage by a few ruthless 14 thugs. Ruthless thugs who were involved in a 15 business, the business of selling drugs. 16 Why would we want to chance going 17 back to the days when we turned over the keys 18 to our neighborhoods, where we allowed a few 19 to hold the many hostage? Why would we want 20 to chance doing that? 21 What if -- what if -- what if the 22 62 district attorneys across the state are 23 right and you're wrong? What if law 24 enforcement, folks like Commissioner Kelly in

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 the City of New York, is right and you're 2 wrong? What if the millions of folks across 3 the State of New York who say we want our 4 streets kept safe from these drug lords are 5 right and you're wrong? 6 Then what? What do we say? What 7 do we do? What could we do at that point? It 8 will take decades, if we are wrong, to clean 9 up in the aftermath of the death and carnage 10 and lost lives that will result if you are 11 wrong, if you are wrong, and all those folks 12 are right. 13 You know, we talk about economics 14 in this budget. This is a plea. This is a 15 personal plea on behalf of my kids back home, 16 on behalf of the people of the State of 17 New York. Take this out of this budget. 18 Let's come together. Let's work together. 19 We'll come back with a better piece of 20 legislation, I promise you. Let's not rush to 21 judgment. Let's not, as District Attorney Dan 22 Donovan has said, push this through only to 23 regret for the rest of our lives the results 24 before the ink is dry.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Madam President, I vote no. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 3 Senator Golden, on the bill. 4 SENATOR GOLDEN: Thank you, Madam 5 President. Senator Schneiderman, could you 6 yield for a question? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 8 Senator Schneiderman, do you yield? 9 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, I 10 will be glad to yield, Madam President. 11 SENATOR GOLDEN: Thank you, Madam 12 President. 13 Does the good Senator believe that 14 under the collateral consequences that illegal 15 immigrants would be referred, in that phrase, 16 by the judges? 17 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I'm sorry, 18 Madam President, I don't understand the 19 question. 20 SENATOR GOLDEN: Do you believe 21 collateral consequences will be an escape 22 clause used by illegal immigrants to be able 23 to not have to plead guilty and therefore go 24 through treatment and then be released to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 probation after they finish their treatment 2 plan? 3 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 4 you, Madam President, no, I don't really 5 understand -- other than the fact that 6 undocumented immigrants or illegal immigrants 7 are apparently a group that it's okay to cite 8 when you're trying to terrorize people, I 9 don't see how they are involved in this at 10 all. Because if you are not here legally and 11 you are arrested for a drug crime, you are at 12 that moment subject to deportation. 13 The only people who could 14 conceivably be involved would be legal 15 immigrants. Someone who is awaiting 16 citizenship, I suppose, might make that a 17 factor if they, similar to the person who is 18 going to lose their electrician's license, I 19 suppose that would be -- but the motion that 20 this has anything to do with undocumented 21 immigrants is absurd. They are subject to 22 deportation at the moment of arrest. 23 I would also like to point out to 24 Senator Golden, by way of conveying that I

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 don't think any immigrants are really going to 2 be implicated here, that according to this -- 3 and this is a release from the Department of 4 Homeland Security, Citizenship and Immigration 5 Services -- they, in their inquiries related 6 to court dispositions, seek to find out not 7 just whether or not you pleaded guilty or had 8 an actual conviction, but they add the 9 following question. "If you were granted 10 diversion, you must submit court records that 11 identify the charge and whether you plead 12 guilty to the charges." 13 So this is for legal immigrants. 14 Legal immigrants, whenever they are going 15 through the process of trying to become 16 citizens, have to acknowledge diversion as 17 well as a guilty plea. 18 So this really -- with all due 19 respect, this is a complete red herring. And 20 I think that -- you know, I hope the Senator 21 recognizes the fact that his mentioning 22 illegal immigrants makes no sense whatsoever, 23 since they are subject to deportation at the 24 moment of arrest. But I really don't see that

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 this is anything other than trying to scare 2 people about undocumented immigrants, which 3 apparently is easy to do in some places. I 4 hope not here in the New York State Senate. 5 SENATOR GOLDEN: Well, Madam 6 President, will Senator Eric Schneiderman 7 continue to yield? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 9 Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to 10 yield? 11 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will, 12 Madam President. 13 SENATOR GOLDEN: Not according to 14 the district attorneys across the state. Not 15 according to the sheriffs. We just had a 16 number of sheriffs talk to us from Senator 17 Aubertine, Senator Valesky, Senator Foley, 18 Senator Stachowski's seats, from the Oswego 19 County sheriff to the Lawrence County sheriff 20 to the Lewis County sheriff. They all read it 21 a little bit different than you do. 22 And you seem to have your 23 fingerprints all over this, so one would 24 presume that you would know what collateral

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 consequences means. 2 And it's also true that -- and I 3 know you know this -- that Medicaid does not 4 pay for treatment for illegal aliens, only for 5 legal. So illegal aliens under this proposal, 6 this bill, treatment is paid for. So there is 7 also an additional cost to the state and to 8 the counties. And the general treatment is 9 about 24 months. 10 So so many people read it so 11 differently than you do, Senator. Can you 12 explain that? 13 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I would 14 welcome if the Senator could identify a 15 specific statement by any of the people that 16 you have cited that undocumented or illegal 17 immigrants would somehow not be subject to 18 deportation immediately on the moment of 19 arrest and therefore would not be involved in 20 this program at all. 21 SENATOR GOLDEN: How about, if 22 the good Senator continues to yield, Bridget 23 Brennan from -- her title is the prosecutor 24 for the City of New York for narcotics. Does

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 she work for you, does that help you? 2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Could you 3 please give me the citation? Are you reading 4 her April 2nd letter? 5 SENATOR GOLDEN: I am not reading 6 her April 2nd letter. I am reading her -- let 7 me see what we have here. This is April 1st. 8 It says special narcotics prosecutor, please 9 remove this legislation -- 10 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I would 11 welcome the Senator's reading the section that 12 relates to undocumented or illegal immigrants. 13 Please, right now. 14 SENATOR GOLDEN: Where is the 15 second document? (Pause.) 16 I can't locate it, but I will find 17 it for you and get it to you. 18 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 19 Madam President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 21 Senator Golden, would you want to speak on the 22 bill? 23 SENATOR GOLDEN: No, Madam 24 President, I am going to continue.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 2 Senator, would you like Senator Schneiderman 3 to continue to yield? 4 SENATOR GOLDEN: If he continues 5 to yield, please. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 7 Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to 8 yield? 9 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, thank 10 you, Madam President, I continue to yield. 11 SENATOR GOLDEN: Does the judge 12 in a finding have to go according to the 13 finding of the four recommendations that are 14 made from that finding as to is that 15 individual addicted to drugs or have a drug 16 problem or alcohol problem, judicial diversion 17 would work, that the crime that he committed 18 was attributed to the alcohol or drugs that he 19 or she is addicted to, and that if the 20 defendant were sent to treatment he would not 21 have to go to jail, he would not be served 22 well or she served well by going to jail? 23 Does the judge have to go according 24 to those four evaluations?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 2 you, Madam President, as I outlined in my 3 earlier presentation, before any defendant can 4 be diverted into a treatment program under 5 this legislation, there has to be a treatment 6 evaluation by substance abuse professionals 7 that have to issue a finding that includes the 8 following elements: That the individual has a 9 history of substance abuse or dependence, a 10 finding that diversion could address this 11 substance abuse problem, and a recommendation 12 as to the specific modality of treatment that 13 would be the most beneficial. 14 The district attorney has the 15 opportunity at that point for a full hearing 16 and to submit any evidence relating to the 17 judge's decision as to whether or not to 18 divert that defendant. And as set forth at 19 page 118 of this legislation, and I -- Senator 20 Golden, please look at it, it's pretty clearly 21 articulated. 22 This sets forth the findings that 23 the judge is required to make. And at 24 line 44, it states: "Upon completion of such

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 a proceeding" -- what I've described 2 earlier -- "the court shall consider and make 3 findings of fact with respect to whether the 4 defendant is an eligible defendant, the 5 defendant has a history of alcohol or 6 substance abuse or dependence, such alcohol or 7 substance abuse or dependence is a 8 contributing factor to the criminal's 9 behavior, the defendant's participation in 10 judicial diversion could effectively address 11 such abuse or dependence, and subsection 5, 12 institutional confinement of the defendant is 13 or may not be necessary for the protection of 14 the public. 15 Those are all of the elements as 16 set forth in the statute. I think it's pretty 17 clear. 18 SENATOR GOLDEN: And the question 19 was, does the judge have to use any of those 20 elements to deter an individual or have the 21 deterrent and have that individual sent into a 22 program? Through you, Madam President. 23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 24 you, Madam President, I don't understand the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 question. What you do mean, deterrent? 2 SENATOR GOLDEN: What you're 3 doing, you're sending the individual into a 4 program. Does he have to listen to all of the 5 recommendations made by that friend of the 6 court or by that evaluating group that came up 7 with the evaluation? Does he have to listen 8 to that? Can he go outside of that evaluation 9 and make a determination? 10 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 11 you, Madam President, I think the Senator may 12 be confused. 13 This is a multistep process. First 14 you have the evaluation. I've set forth what 15 has to be done there. Without an evaluation, 16 you can't proceed. The district attorney has 17 the opportunity for a full hearing. Then the 18 judge has to -- and again, I will read it once 19 again, that the court shall consider and 20 making findings of fact with respect to the 21 following elements. 22 So the court is not just required 23 to think about them, the judge has to make 24 findings of fact.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR GOLDEN: Madam President, 2 it says here "shall consider" doesn't mean he 3 must consider. Am I reading this correctly on 4 page number 56 on line number 44? 5 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I think, 6 except for the fact that "shall" does mean 7 "must," yes. "Shall consider" means "must 8 consider." And must make findings of fact on 9 these issues. So the court's role in this is 10 defined quite carefully. 11 I assure you that this is a tighter 12 model even than the drug court models that 13 we're operating in now. 14 SENATOR GOLDEN: Madam President, 15 as I had asked him, is he bound by that? Is 16 the judge bound by that, Madam President? 17 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 18 you, Madam President. This is a mandate for 19 the findings of fact a judge may make. The 20 judge -- I don't even understand the question. 21 The judge is bound by his own findings of 22 fact. The judge is required to make findings 23 of fact. The judge then has to determine, 24 based on those findings of fact, whether

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 someone is eligible for and should be diverted 2 into a treatment program or not. 3 SENATOR GOLDEN: Well, I -- the 4 statement you've just made is that he's not 5 bound by that decision and he can make any 6 decision he wishes to make when taking that 7 individual and making that diversion. Am I 8 correct? 9 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 10 you, Madam President, no, the Senator is not 11 correct. I don't know how I can state it any 12 more clearly. Obviously I'm not doing a good 13 job at articulating it. But it is set forth 14 very clearly at page 118 of this legislation. 15 SENATOR GOLDEN: Well, I think 16 the good lawyer and the good Senator knows 17 that the court always has discretion and 18 therefore discretion can be used here. And I 19 think he understands where I'm going with 20 this. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 22 Senator Golden, would you want to speak on the 23 bill or do you want Senator Schneiderman to 24 continue to yield?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR GOLDEN: I have one more 2 question for Senator Schneiderman -- at least 3 two more questions. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 5 Senator Schneiderman, will you continue to 6 yield? 7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will 8 continue to yield. 9 SENATOR GOLDEN: What happens if 10 the individual fails to be able to get through 11 that process? What if he or she relapses? 12 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Then 13 through you, Madam President, the individual 14 would come back, as they will come back 15 periodically before the drug court judge, they 16 will come back before the judge and be 17 sentenced in accordance with the provisions of 18 the statute. 19 SENATOR GOLDEN: Only if they 20 plead, I believe. But I do believe that in 21 your bill there are sanctions, that they allow 22 the judge to make sanctions in the sentencing 23 of this individual or putting this individual 24 back into treatment a number of times if they

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 should relapse. 2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. 3 Through you, Madam President, this is 4 precisely the drug court model. It does 5 provide for judges, as they do every day in 6 drug courts, to consider the fact that some 7 people do relapse. And a graduated sanction 8 is permitted, yes. That's absolutely correct. 9 This is the treatment model that has proven 10 the most successful in New York State and 11 across the country at reducing recidivism and 12 reducing crime. The Senator is absolutely 13 correct. 14 SENATOR GOLDEN: Thank you. 15 Madam President, what about if 16 there is no program and the judge can't find 17 that program? What happens to the individual 18 that is before the drug court or, in places 19 where there are no drug courts, before the 20 judges? What happens at that point? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 22 Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to 23 yield? 24 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, Madam

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 President, I do continue to yield. 2 This question relates to an issue 3 that came up earlier, and this is one reason 4 why I think it is quite appropriate for this 5 to be in the budget. 6 In the same legislation that we're 7 passing and in its companion appropriation 8 bill, we are securing the allocation of 9 $71.6 million to guarantee that the problem 10 that Senator Golden is concerned with never 11 takes place. We have to ensure that there are 12 the treatment slots, and we have to ensure 13 that they are effective. 14 We have excellent treatment 15 programs that are working all over the State 16 of New York. And I would urge the Senator 17 that this is not a matter of us reinventing 18 the wheel, this is a matter of us simply 19 providing the resources to the treatment 20 professionals who are running excellent 21 programs now with proven records of success, 22 empirically demonstrated to get people out of 23 the cycle of drug use and criminality. These 24 programs are out there. We just have to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 provide them with the funding. And that's 2 something we are doing in this legislation and 3 the companion appropriation bill. 4 SENATOR GOLDEN: Well, I do 5 know -- through you, Madam President -- that 6 the judge can put him or her back out on bail 7 and put them back out into the streets of the 8 City or State of New York. That's in the 9 legislation. 10 I'm going to close down on this. 11 Two more questions. 12 On collateral consequences, we 13 spoke of the empirical data that you had. And 14 I wonder if the collateral consequences was 15 figured into your data, for the simple reason 16 there is no guilty plea, so therefore we have 17 nothing to hang over the individual's head 18 that goes into treatment under our collateral 19 consequences. 20 So one would think that the 21 empirical analysis would be somewhat flawed, 22 because we've seen this in the past. Where 23 you had no guilty plea, you had nothing to 24 hang over their head, we've seen those

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 policies in the past, we've seen them fail 2 across the country. And I was just wondering 3 if that was part of your empirical analysis. 4 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 5 you, Madam President, no, that was not a part 6 of any empirical analysis I've undertaken. 7 SENATOR GOLDEN: And in the 8 empirical analysis -- 9 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I would 10 like to mention, if I may, though, if I may 11 mention it, the indictment doesn't go away. 12 Someone who for whatever reason a court finds 13 the likelihood of severe collateral 14 consequences and has an allocution in which 15 someone admits their wrongdoing but doesn't 16 actually plead guilty, that person has the 17 allocution on record and the indictment is 18 still in existence. 19 So, you know, the idea that someone 20 would evade responsibility and somehow, you 21 know, not face consequences if they were 22 diverted into a program and failed and came 23 back to the judge is absurd. 24 SENATOR GOLDEN: When I get that

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 letter for you from the district attorney that 2 gave us that information -- which I will get 3 to you -- I will also get to you studies which 4 show that when we don't have a guilty plea and 5 the individuals are put into treatment 6 programs, that they don't work. 7 Last but not least -- 8 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 9 Senator Schneiderman, do you yield for a final 10 question from Senator Golden? 11 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, I 12 will yield for a final question. 13 SENATOR GOLDEN: On the empirical 14 analysis, the ones that I understand had the 15 prosecutor involved with the empirical data, 16 does the prosecutor -- is that in your 17 empirical data? 18 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 19 you, Madam President. I don't understand the 20 question. Prosecutor relating to my empirical 21 data? 22 SENATOR GOLDEN: When the cases 23 go forward and the individuals are placed into 24 diversion, it is done in conjunction or with

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 the district attorneys or the prosecutors 2 across the counties, across this state and 3 across the country. And I was wondering if 4 your empirical analysis had included the 5 prosecutors in that analysis for a final 6 result. 7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I don't 8 understand the question, Madam President. 9 Are you talking about the hearing 10 that the judge holds before there is a 11 diversion where the prosecutor gets a chance 12 to present evidence and has full input? 13 SENATOR GOLDEN: The empirical 14 knowledge that I understand that you may be 15 talking about has been used with the district 16 attorneys' input and the district attorneys' 17 involvement in these cases. And this new 18 legislation, the district attorneys are not 19 involved in this, and their responsibilities 20 have been limited in your legislation. 21 So my question to you is, isn't the 22 empirical data that you have somewhat flawed? 23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 24 you, Madam President, no, my empirical data is

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 quite accurate. 2 SENATOR GOLDEN: Madam President, 3 I guess depending on who's looking at this 4 empirical data. 5 But if you take out the prosecutor, 6 I don't see how it works. And if you take out 7 the ability to have the guilty plea, we know 8 it doesn't work. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 10 Are you speaking on the bill now, Senator 11 Golden? 12 SENATOR GOLDEN: And of course 13 the sheriffs from Oswego and St. Lawrence 14 County, they have empirical data, and they're 15 against it. 16 On the bill. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 18 Senator Golden, on the bill. 19 SENATOR GOLDEN: It is amazing 20 how we would do this diversion. We would have 21 an individual that's committed a number of 22 crimes, misdemeanors and felonies, multiple 23 misdemeanors and felonies. And before that 24 individual is arrested for those and put into

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 this diversion program, the tens of thousands 2 of dollars of damage they've already cost to 3 our communities. 4 And now we're going to bring them 5 in, allow them to go into a diversion, give 6 them probation, and allow their records to be 7 sealed, with no consistency from case to case. 8 And then when those records are sealed, we 9 have the opportunity for that individual to be 10 placed in a childcare center, into a 11 vulnerable senior, into home care or into 12 pre-K programs where we would have no way of 13 knowing what was going on and no way of 14 knowing who we were hiring and no way of 15 knowing if those individuals would be safe in 16 the future. 17 The cost of this is astronomical. 18 If anybody is looking to save money, we would 19 save $500 million by pulling this right out of 20 the bill, and billions of dollars into the 21 outyears. 22 I talked to you about Medicaid, 23 because Medicaid is not paid for the illegal 24 immigrants. So the program in this bill will

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 pay for it. The cost of the mandate for the 2 use of the drug courts across the state, that 3 is going to be laid into the counties. 4 And these cases would be presided 5 over by judges in an already overcrowded court 6 system. Which who would pay for all of that 7 additional dollars? And of course the extra 8 costs to the localities and the reimbursement 9 to the budgets and how that would reflect in 10 being paid for. The probation officers, the 11 parole officers. 12 The cost of having all of these 13 people that are on treatment today who would 14 have the opportunity now to go back to the 15 court, take their guilty plea away, get out of 16 their treatment, take a new guilty plea and go 17 back into a new program, the costs of that. 18 The costs of the 5,000 -- let's say -- there's 19 one figure at 9,000, there's one figure at 20 1500. Let's say 5,000 go for resentencing. 21 Five thousand people go back to the 22 localities for resentencing. I don't know how 23 many get out, but I would suggest a good 24 number get out. Could you imagine the costs

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 of that? 2 The costs of treatment. We talked 3 about the $71 million of the stimulus money 4 and $75 million in probation. There's not 5 nearly enough money. And the stimulus will be 6 gone very, very shortly. In the next 24 7 months, 25 months, what do we do? 8 Ladies and gentlemen, this is not 9 only the "Drug Dealers Protection Act," it's 10 also the "Criminal Defense's Dream Act," as 11 Senator Volker pointed out. We've seen, in 12 the City of New York, when we had at that time 13 it was Mayor Dinkins running the City of 14 New York, we had over 2200 homicides in the 15 city and we had over 800,000 crimes. And the 16 large percentage of that would be to drugs. 17 And ladies and gentlemen, that's 18 the exact era that we will be returning to if 19 we go down this road and allow this bill to 20 stay part of this. Families will get damaged, 21 families will be torn apart, people will be 22 hurt, and people will die. This is a 23 terrible, terrible, terrible bill for our 24 state, and it's going to set us back decades

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 before we can correct it. And I don't know 2 how many lives will be lost before it is 3 corrected. 4 Thank you, Madam President. I vote 5 no. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 7 Thank you. 8 Senator Ranzenhofer, on the bill. 9 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Thank you, 10 Madam President. 11 I've listened to the lengthy 12 debate, and obviously there's some passion and 13 very strong feelings on both sides of the 14 issue. I was especially moved by Senator 15 Lanza's description and his experience as a 16 prosecutor and what people on the front lines 17 of fighting drugs in families and communities, 18 what they actually go through. 19 I was a little bit disturbed by 20 some of the discussion between Senators 21 Schneiderman and Diaz when there was some 22 commentary about people who hold a different 23 view somehow being uninformed, having an ax to 24 grind, or being extremist. And I don't think

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 that people that are on the front lines, such 2 as police officers, prosecutors, sheriffs, 3 district attorneys, have an ax to grind or are 4 uninformed or are extremist. Generally these 5 are people that have devoted their entire 6 lives as career law enforcement professionals 7 and have a lot of experience on this 8 particular issue. 9 I can tell you that, like many of 10 my colleagues, I also received a letter from 11 my district attorney, as did some others. I 12 have received communication from sheriffs in 13 my community and, you know, what they feel 14 about in particular issue. And again, these 15 are career law enforcement people who don't 16 have a vested interest from a personal stake, 17 but I think what they want to do is what's 18 best for the community. 19 I know that the sheriffs of the 20 counties that I represent -- and again, maybe 21 the sentiment is different upstate than 22 downstate. But I know at least for upstate, 23 law enforcement is very much against that. I 24 know that the sheriffs of my two counties do

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 not support this. I know that the sheriffs, 2 for instance, in Senator Aubertine's district 3 do not support this. The sheriff of Lewis 4 County has come out against this. The sheriff 5 of Oswego County has come out against this. 6 The sheriff of Lawrence County has come out 7 against this. My sheriff, in my two counties, 8 has come out against this. 9 This is law enforcement speaking 10 out. These are the professionals that deal 11 with this particular issue day in and day out. 12 I want to just go to another part 13 of the discussion, and that is why is this 14 particular legislation, which is very 15 controversial, why is this buried in the 16 budget? Well, I think the reason is obvious, 17 and I'll state it for the record. When you go 18 home and you're trying to explain your vote in 19 your district, you can say: Well, I voted for 20 an omnibus budget bill. And rather than 21 having to explain your position on this 22 particular legislation, you can say, well, 23 it's part of a larger process and I voted for 24 or against the budget -- in this particular

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 case, if you're on the other side of the 2 aisle, I voted for the budget, but I was 3 really against the Rockefeller drug law 4 reform. Which is really not reform, in my 5 opinion. 6 And I think what is actually 7 happening here is it's the only way that you 8 can sneak something as controversial as this 9 through. As was stated before, this was 10 drafted behind closed doors. There was 11 absolutely no discussion on this, as 12 apparently happened when there was 13 modification of the drug laws in the past. 14 And I think why there was no 15 discussion and no debate is because this 16 wouldn't pass. And we can speculate all we 17 like. As I know some Senator said, "Well, if 18 this was a stand-alone vote, well, this would 19 pass." 20 Well, you know what, Madam 21 President, there actually were two stand-alone 22 votes on this issue. There was an amendment 23 that was offered by Senator Little on prison 24 closures. And the vote on that bill, a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 stand-alone vote, was 30 in favor, 21 against, 2 and two people not here. Nine people didn't 3 want to take that vote, so they were outside 4 the chambers so they wouldn't have to take 5 that vote, they wouldn't have to go home to 6 their community and explain why didn't they 7 vote the right way, why didn't they vote in 8 favor of keeping drug dealers in prison where 9 they belong. They were absent from the 10 chamber. They didn't cast a vote. 11 Then there was a second amendment; 12 again, another stand-alone vote. Are you up 13 or down? Do you favor modification of the 14 laws, or don't you? And that was the 15 amendment that was offered by Senator Golden 16 on that particular vote. There were 30 people 17 in favor of the amendment. There were 20 18 people that were against the amendment. There 19 were two people that weren't here. And there 20 were 10 Senators who did not come to the 21 chamber to vote. 22 Now, some of those Senators were 23 absent for both of these votes, and I'll tell 24 you why. Because if there was a stand-alone

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 vote, no way, no how, do they want to be on 2 record as casting a bad vote. So what they 3 decided to do is to be absent, to not vote, to 4 not take a position, to not have to explain to 5 their constituents where they were on the 6 issue. They can kind of hide behind the whole 7 big budget and try explain their way out of 8 it. 9 But on the two stand-alone votes 10 that were cast in this chambers, it's a matter 11 of record who was here and voted yes, who was 12 here and voted no, and who didn't have the 13 courage to cast a vote in public and be 14 recorded. And that's a shame. That's a 15 shame. 16 Now, let me tell you this, Madam 17 President. I'm not going to read the entire 18 letter, but we have a district attorney in the 19 county that I represent who's a career 20 prosecutor, has been a career prosecutor for 21 over 20 years, just became elected to the 22 district attorney's office after having served 23 in the DA's office for many, many years. He 24 doesn't have an ax to grind, he is not an

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 extremist, he is not uninformed. But let me 2 just read a couple of sentences from his 3 letter to me on this particular issue. 4 He says: "The proposed judicial 5 diversion legislation in its current form will 6 have a devastating consequence for public 7 safety." 8 What does that mean? This means 9 what Senator Lanza said. This means what 10 Senator Golden said. That people are going to 11 die as a result of this, that communities are 12 going to be less safe. 13 Now, there was an issue that was 14 raised earlier about the young man who was 35 15 and was sent to prison for 11 years. And 16 there is probably a way of dealing with that 17 particular issue that's not here. 18 And that issue won't be resolved. 19 Instead, what we're doing is we'll allow 20 thousands and thousands of people out onto the 21 streets -- because everybody knows that when 22 you have turf wars and drug wars between rival 23 gangs, this terrorizes communities. This is 24 going to terrorize my community, this is going

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 to terrorize your community. Because these 2 people are not creating havoc right now; 3 they're in jail. And the ones that should be 4 in jail should be in jail. 5 And as the district attorney says, 6 he says: "Existing New York law gives judges 7 the unbridled discretion to make those 8 decisions for truly nonviolent first-time 9 felons." He says: "For violent felons, like 10 those who rob or seriously assault another, or 11 repeat felony offenders, existing law, through 12 the use of mandatory minimum sentences, 13 requires approval of both the judge and 14 prosecutor before an offender can be released 15 into the community for treatment." 16 Madam President, there is a law 17 that works, that perhaps might need some 18 modification. But in closing, what he says is 19 "The Legislature's proposal will take a 20 sledgehammer to one of the two pillars, 21 eliminating the prosecutor's effective voice 22 in the decision. We will be left to hope that 23 the system can balance on a single pillar. If 24 it does not, dangerous drug dealers will be

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 released back to the neighborhoods they were 2 destroying, and the residents of those 3 neighborhoods will pay the price." 4 This is not about this side or that 5 side. This is about what career 6 professionals -- district attorneys, police 7 officers, sheriffs -- who have combined 8 hundreds and thousands of combined years of 9 experience are saying across the state. This 10 is a bad bill. Bring it back, let's talk 11 about it. But this is going to create havoc 12 and increase crime and danger in our 13 community. 14 Thank you, Madam President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 16 Senator LaValle, to close. 17 SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you, 18 Madam President. 19 The two previous years, in 2008 and 20 2007, was a mantra in this chamber. Brennan 21 Center, Brennan Center. Constituents didn't 22 know what it was about, but in the Emerald 23 City everyone knew about the Brennan Center 24 report.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 And yet we have, from Bridget 2 Brennan, a very articulate special narcotics 3 prosecutor from the City of New York, who in 4 the topic sentence says: "With a great sense 5 of urgency, I am asking you to vote no on this 6 bill." So a different Brennan. But I would 7 think that people would be kind of alert to 8 hearing that name. 9 Senator Volker, in the year 2004, 10 worked very diligently, held hearings. And I 11 think as everyone knows who served on the 12 Codes Committee, Senator Volker listens to 13 people on the committee and brings in -- tries 14 to build consensus. 15 Here we have a bill that is in the 16 budget and no one has given a good reason of 17 why this bill is in the budget, other than 18 there would be no 32 votes. Senator 19 Ranzenhofer was right; people have been out of 20 this chamber hiding. 21 Now, let me say that having been in 22 the Majority for 32 years, I know that our 23 conference would have enormous debates about 24 whether something was in the budget, not in

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 the budget, how we would handle it. So it is 2 obvious that the new Majority has taken a 3 position that this is important to the 4 Speaker, it's important to the Governor. Gee, 5 is it important to the people of this state 6 who have written? 7 We on the Judiciary Committee, we 8 don't pass a bill unless we have the 9 imprimatur of the Surrogate's Court Committee 10 of the State Bar Association. We listen to 11 them because these are attorneys and Surrogate 12 Court judges who we value their opinion. 13 Now we have a bill before us and 14 the prosecutors of our state say this is a bad 15 bill, the law enforcement community says it's 16 a bad bill. This bill will do great damage, 17 will do great damage. I just want to say, 18 before I move on to why I feel this is going 19 to do great damage, that the people who 20 couldn't put this bill out as an individual 21 bill and vote for it or against it, I will 22 not -- I will fight anyone who hides behind 23 that this was not budget and, you know, I had 24 to support the budget. This shouldn't be in

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 the budget. This bill should have been a 2 freestanding bill, and we should have voted on 3 it. 4 I feel very passionate about this 5 because my whole career I have spent in 6 education, dealing with children, whether they 7 be at the elementary school level, or as an 8 adjunct professor at a collegiate level. And 9 I will tell you that I have seen great damage 10 done to young people because of the rising 11 drug use in our community. So much so that 12 Nassau and Suffolk Counties passed a bill -- 13 in Nassau County, it was Resolution 1122 that 14 was passed in 2008, and it's called Natalie's 15 Law. 16 Natalie's Law was about a young 17 lady, an 18-year-old, probably in Senator 18 Fuschillo or Senator Hannon's district. 19 And when we look at the number of 20 cases that have been escalating in both 21 counties, it's at epic proportions. Suffolk 22 County reported 312 heroin overdoses last 23 year, up from 151 in the year 2000 -- a 106 24 percent increase. In Nassau County, overdoses

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 have risen by 22 percent in the same period of 2 time. 3 Now, one of the first jobs that I 4 had in government on appointment, I was the 5 director, the chairman of the Brookhaven Town 6 Narcotics Guidance Council. We set up the 7 first counseling program in Suffolk County. I 8 would tell you that maybe drug counseling has 9 improved a whole lot. I don't have the rate 10 of recidivism, unless someone else does and 11 can tell us how effective these programs are. 12 But I do know that when the 13 district attorneys tell us that 5,000 drug 14 dealers are going to be out on the streets, my 15 sense is that my constituents in Suffolk 16 County and in Nassau County are going to be 17 prime victims. And why? Fortunately and 18 unfortunately, young people have a little more 19 money. And so drug dealers come out into the 20 suburbs -- they come all over, as Bridget 21 Brennan talked about in the project here, the 22 problems in a project in New York City. So 23 it's not only a New York City problem, but 24 it's a problem in our suburban areas.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 So I don't know, Senator 2 Schneiderman -- I've listened to you, you 3 talked about dollars being available for 4 treatment. Well, you know, we passed the 5 civil confinement bill and we put some dollars 6 in the budget for treatment. And I'm told 7 that that money was a mere pittance and really 8 nothing has been done. 9 So why do I believe that we're 10 going to have the kind of money to do the kind 11 of intensive drug rehabilitation that is 12 needed to ensure that when people are released 13 that they're not going to commit the same 14 kinds of crimes? 15 So for my community, I just see a 16 lot of young people who are going to be robbed 17 of a future, who will never be able to live a 18 full life because an addiction, any form of 19 addiction, is very, very difficult to kick. 20 But why are we going to rob our young people 21 of the best years of their life? We know it. 22 Our law enforcement people are telling us, and 23 our prosecutors. 24 You want to know the only one who's

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 going to benefit from this? The people who 2 have committed crimes and defense attorneys. 3 This is probably a defense attorney's full 4 employment act. Full employment act. 5 And so it's a shame that we're 6 putting the wrong emphasis -- instead of 7 protecting our communities, protecting our 8 young people, we are doing just the reverse. 9 We are protecting individuals who commit 10 crimes. 11 So far -- let's see, we're in the 12 month of April, we just started -- I've been 13 on this floor, we've passed laws to lessen the 14 standards on Election Law, we are now 15 lessening the ability to keep people who 16 should be in correction facilities in 17 correction facilities. There's a provision in 18 the budget that we remove fingerprinting of 19 individuals who apply for welfare, and yet we 20 complain about welfare and Medicaid fraud. 21 We are going in the wrong 22 direction. In the wrong direction. And I 23 hope that when people come into this chamber 24 to vote that they will cast the right vote for

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 the people that they represent. Because I can 2 tell you that people on this side of the aisle 3 will not tolerate anyone saying, Well, it was 4 in the budget and I had to vote for the 5 budget, but if it was a freestanding bill I 6 would have voted against that turkey. 7 Thank you, Madam President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 9 Thank you, Senator. 10 The Secretary will please ring the 11 bells. 12 Read the last section. 13 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 14 act shall take effect immediately. 15 (Several Senators standing for a 16 slow roll call.) 17 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 18 Seeing that -- where's Senator Libous? 19 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Senator Owen 20 Johnson is standing. That's all you need. 21 (Laughter.) 22 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 23 I was looking for Senator Libous, but okay. 24 Seeing that more than five Senators have

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 risen, a slow roll call has been called. 2 The Secretary will ring the bell, 3 which you've done, and call the roll slowly. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Adams. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 6 Senator Adams, to explain his vote. 7 SENATOR ADAMS: I want to explain 8 my vote, which is stating to our colleague 9 Senator Lanza how much I appreciate him. 10 There's a level of cordiality and respect that 11 he brings to this chamber. Even when you 12 disagree, there's a way we should communicate 13 with each other. And after a year and a half 14 or two years from being here, he exudes what I 15 believe we owe to each other. And I disagree 16 with his position, but I respect the manner in 17 which he has shared his position. 18 This is an important issue, and we 19 know it is. And there are parts of the bill 20 we can question, we can look at. That goes 21 without saying. But the fact of the matter 22 is -- I've said this so often -- that we have 23 to look at the entire, the totality of how 24 issues impact us.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 And we are all always going to have 2 different views, and that's what makes this 3 process great. There should be those who are 4 for, those who are against. And then there 5 are citizens who are in the middle just 6 looking for results. 7 I know that every weekend as I 8 drive through my community that there are 9 large numbers of grandfathers and mothers and 10 daughters who didn't commit one crime, but 11 they are boarding buses with their hard-earned 12 dollars to go to the northern part of this 13 state. There's a whole industry around that. 14 And I also know some of those same 15 mothers go to various parts of my district, 16 and they're afraid of crime, they're afraid of 17 drug deliveries. And I know a large number of 18 young men for first arrests are incarcerated, 19 taken away from their homes and their 20 families. So there's a problem. 21 Our decision and my decision to 22 vote aye, if I'm wrong, is not a mistake from 23 the mind, it's a mistake from the heart. I 24 believe we need to do better with the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Rockefeller drug law. It was a mistake. And 2 I have a right to point out why I believe it's 3 the wrong thing that the Rockefeller drug law 4 was in the wrong place at the wrong time. And 5 I will continue to feel that way. 6 And as long as I spent 21 years 7 putting a vest on, standing on the corner 8 protecting the city and the state, I believe 9 my decision today is the right one. I vote 10 aye. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 12 Senator Adams to be recorded in the 13 affirmative. 14 Continue calling the roll. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Addabbo. 16 SENATOR ADDABBO: Yes. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Alesi. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 19 Senator Alesi, to explain his vote. 20 SENATOR ALESI: I have listened 21 to the passion on both sides of the aisle, 22 both sides of the issue. And I appreciate not 23 only that passion but the effort that's gone 24 into putting this bill forth and the effort

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 that's gone into resisting this bill. 2 From my standpoint personally, I 3 cannot embrace this bill. I believe it 4 reaches far too far in what it is attempting 5 to do. My district attorney in Monroe County, 6 Mike Green, is a Democrat. He is steadfastly 7 opposed to this bill. My two Assemblymembers, 8 Morelle and Koon, in Monroe County, are 9 Democrats. They have voted against this bill. 10 Without going into all the reasons 11 because we're limited to two minutes, I can 12 justify to myself and to my constituents that 13 this is not the bill that it could be, not the 14 bill that it should be. But probably most 15 important for me, this is a bill that should 16 never have been debated or included in the 17 budget. 18 I simply can't support a bill that 19 does those things, even though it intends to 20 do things that the sponsor wants us to believe 21 are good for the citizens of this state. To 22 me, it's simply unbelievable, and I vote no. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 24 Senator Alesi to be recorded in the negative.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 The Secretary will continue to call 2 the roll. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator 4 Aubertine. 5 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bonacic. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 8 Senator Bonacic, to explain his vote. 9 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you, 10 Madam President, to explain my vote. 11 You know, the fact that the bill 12 was buried in a budget bill speaks volumes of 13 hiding the bill and having the fear of let it 14 be subject to public hearings and have 15 everybody weigh in. That disappointed me the 16 most. 17 As to the merits of the bill -- and 18 as also a former prosecutor, like Senator 19 Lanza -- I believe this bill will give the 20 message of soft on crime, it will enhance the 21 danger in our communities for families, it 22 will proliferate more gang activities that are 23 related to drugs. 24 And I love the way we try to create

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 our own language like "nonviolent drug user." 2 Can you tell me, when someone uses drugs, how 3 they're going to behave? Haven't we had many 4 experiences where people who use too much 5 drugs killed indiscriminately without regard 6 to life? So the marketing of "nonviolent drug 7 user," I don't buy it. 8 This is a dangerous, dangerous 9 legislation. And I honestly believe if we had 10 to vote as a legislature here on this bill not 11 related to the budget bill, this would not 12 have passed. 13 I vote no. Thank you. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 15 Senator Bonacic to be recorded in the 16 negative. 17 The Secretary will continue, 18 please. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Breslin. 20 SENATOR BRESLIN: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator 22 DeFrancisco. 23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: To explain 24 my vote.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 2 Senator DeFrancisco to explain his vote. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I was on 4 the joint committee to reform the Rockefeller 5 drug laws a few years ago, and there was 6 spirited debate. We heard from mothers of 7 children that were in prison, we heard from 8 district attorneys, we heard from everyone. 9 And a compromise of all those positions was 10 worked out. 11 And apparently it worked, from all 12 the statistics we're hearing about how there's 13 less people in jail who have been convicted of 14 drug crimes due to diversion programs than 15 there are that are in jail. Many, many people 16 were resentenced. Things happened, and the 17 Rockefeller drug law changed back then, and 18 there was no longer any Rockefeller drug laws 19 as of that date, in my opinion. 20 This process is so unbelievable in 21 view of the fact that the new majority became 22 the majority on the theory of openness. They 23 even sued us because we weren't open last 24 year. I mean, this is the most closed process

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 in the world when you close out the experts on 2 crime from the process. Almost unanimous 3 throughout the state, sheriffs, DAs think this 4 is bad. 5 Specifically, we talked about the 6 fact that judges alone can divert cases from 7 the criminal prosecution to drug treatment 8 without any input from prosecutors. Predicate 9 felons who have committed several felonies can 10 be diverted many, many times away from 11 conviction. So the prosecutor's role is 12 eliminated completely. 13 And then the exception that I love 14 the most is the exception when you can't -- 15 you don't even have to plead guilty to get 16 diversion as long as there is severe 17 collateral consequences. And despite the 18 comment that we had to have that because it's 19 unconstitutional otherwise, the fact of the 20 matter is there's no definition and it's an 21 open door. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 23 Senator DeFrancisco, how do you vote? 24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: For these

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 and many, many other reasons, I vote no. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 3 Senator DeFrancisco to be recorded in the 4 negative. 5 The Secretary will continue to call 6 the roll. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Diaz. 8 SENATOR DIAZ: To explain my 9 vote. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 11 Senator Diaz, to explain his vote. 12 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, Madam 13 President. 14 Today we are responding to the 15 call, to the plea of so many people, including 16 the Catholic Conference. For years, the 17 Catholic Conference -- for years -- pleaded 18 with your side to do this. And they were 19 ignored, their pleas were ignored, fell on 20 deaf ears. 21 Today, this Democratic Conference 22 is responding to the pleas of the Catholic 23 Conference that want this done, this injustice 24 that has been done, to do away with it.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 And yes, Senator Lanza, yes, 2 Senator Lanza, it is not good to show the two 3 bags. But I will join you in going to the 4 newspapers, the Daily News, the New York 5 Post -- the TV, and tell them not to show what 6 they show. Tons of bags. The movies. So, 7 you know, two bags, not too much for what they 8 show. 9 So, Madam President, I'm voting yes 10 and I am here fulfilling a call from the 11 Catholic Conference. Even though I am a 12 Protestant, I'm responding to the Catholic 13 Conference with a yes. 14 Thank you. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 16 Senator Diaz to be recorded in the 17 affirmative. 18 The Secretary will continue the 19 roll. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Dilan. 21 SENATOR DILAN: Yes. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Duane. 23 SENATOR DUANE: Yes. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR ESPADA: Yes. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 4 Senator Farley, to explain his vote. 5 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you very 6 much. 7 Madam President, you know, as a 8 lawyer and a law professor and somebody who's 9 never been a prosecutor or really involved 10 with the criminal law, I have to rely on my 11 brethren who know this. And let me say I was 12 deeply impressed by my colleague and seatmate 13 Senator Lanza, and deeply touched by what he 14 had to say on this. 15 But I do want to say that what 16 really moved me on this issue was one of my 17 district attorneys. And all four of them were 18 against this, but Bob Carney, from 19 Schenectady, one of the finest district 20 attorneys in this state, a Democrat, who was 21 so passionately opposed to this and told me 22 that he had lobbied and spoken to a number of 23 your conference and had commitments and 24 agreements that they couldn't support this.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 It's one of the reasons that I 2 don't feel that this legislation would ever 3 have stood on its own had it been not wrapped 4 in and hidden in the budget. That's not 5 right. That's not what the Senate has stood 6 for over the years as a deliberative body. 7 This bill would not have passed, Senator 8 Schneiderman, this bill would not have become 9 law. 10 I think it's a real departure. It 11 saddens me. I think it's going to make an 12 awful difference in this state. The 13 unfortunate thing, it's going to be a 14 detriment to the State of New York. 15 I vote no. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 17 Senator Farley to be recorded in the negative. 18 The Secretary will please continue. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Flanagan. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 21 Senator Flanagan, to explain his vote. 22 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Madam 23 President, to explain my vote. 24 I want to compliment my colleagues.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 I think this has been a very enlightening 2 debate. 3 I just have a couple of quick 4 thoughts, one of which is looking at the 5 substance of what we're talking about. But 6 for a relatively short reference by Senator 7 Schneiderman, we are underscoring how 8 important the Rockefeller drug law issue is by 9 virtue of the fact that nobody else has talked 10 about anything that's in this bill. So it's 11 almost as if we're having this debate outside 12 of a budget bill, but it's unfortunately stuck 13 in a budget bill. 14 So we all take this seriously. And 15 I think respecting each other's opinions is 16 exceedingly important. I listened to the 17 people who are the professionals and my own 18 district attorney, who has a stellar record, 19 who is really -- he's a Democrat, but I look 20 at him as a nonpartisan district attorney 21 fighting for the people of Suffolk County, and 22 I know that he is strongly opposed to this. 23 And the last thing I would say is 24 looking back -- well, two points. A quick

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 thing is if you go back to the reforms of 2 2004, almost everybody in this chamber voted 3 for it, because it was a bipartisan product of 4 a commission that toiled over this for weeks 5 and weeks and weeks. It's just a glaring 6 example of what a missed opportunity we've had 7 right here. Because who knows, maybe 8 something else could have been accomplished. 9 And none of us stands, certainly, 10 in our Republican conference as recalcitrant 11 and being opposed to anything, because almost 12 every one of us voted for the reforms in 2004. 13 Last thing to Senator Schneiderman, 14 the collateral consequences. I believe, based 15 on some of the things that I've seen, that 16 there is a legitimate question as to whether 17 or not those who are legal immigrants and 18 illegal immigrants will petition the court and 19 say because of the severe adverse 20 consequences, I believe that I should not have 21 to enter a guilty plea, and therefore they can 22 escape the confines of this law. 23 It's a legitimate question. It 24 hasn't been answered. I'm not comfortable

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 leaving it to the discretion of the judiciary, 2 because I think we should have more of a -- 3 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 4 Senator Flanagan, how do you vote? 5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I vote no. 6 Thank you. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 8 Senator Flanagan to be recorded in the 9 negative. 10 The Secretary will continue please. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Foley. 12 SENATOR FOLEY: Aye. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator 14 Fuschillo. 15 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: To explain my 16 vote, Madam President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 18 Senator Fuschillo, to explain his vote. 19 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: When you 20 reform the criminal justice system and you 21 take the prosecutor's advice out, there's a 22 problem. My district attorney, who's the 23 chief prosecutor in Nassau County, states, and 24 I quote: "There is nobody more familiar with

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 the defendant's background and details of 2 their current case than the district 3 attorney's office. Exclusion of the most 4 informed party from such an important process 5 is ill-conceived." 6 This is the prosecutor of Nassau 7 County, Kathleen Rice, who says you take us 8 out of the system to prosecute individuals who 9 peddle drugs on our streets, it's 10 ill-conceived and it's going to cause our 11 streets to be unsafe. 12 Madam President, I vote no. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 14 Senator Fuschillo to be recorded in the 15 negative. 16 The Secretary will continue. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Golden. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 19 Senator Golden, to explain his vote. 20 SENATOR GOLDEN: Thank you, Madam 21 President. 22 Life, liberty, and the pursuit of 23 happiness as we know it for the residents of 24 the State of New York has changed forever this

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 day. The quality of life for the people 2 across this state will change forever for all 3 the residents of this great state. 4 We fixed something that should not 5 have been fixed. We went too far. Crime will 6 go up, the cost of this bill will go up from 7 hundreds of millions to billions of dollars. 8 Families will be torn apart, people will 9 suffer, people will die, children will be torn 10 from their families, children gunned down in 11 our cities for the almighty profits of the 12 drug trade. 13 When will we ever learn? God help 14 what we've done here today, and God help this 15 great State of New York. 16 I vote no, Madam President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 18 Senator Golden to be recorded in the negative. 19 The Secretary will continue. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Griffo. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 22 Senator Griffo, to explain his vote. 23 SENATOR GRIFFO: Thank you, Madam 24 President.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 I also want to talk about two parts 2 of this, the public safety and justice but 3 also the process. I also had to turn to the 4 individuals who have firsthand experience, day 5 in and day out, in fighting crime, district 6 attorneys, both Republican and Democrat. 7 I had two outstanding letters that 8 I received from the sheriff and the district 9 attorney of St. Lawrence County, who really 10 spoke very passionately about this issue. 11 And I concur that some of the 12 concerns that I would have is there needs to 13 be a consequence for this type of drug crime. 14 How about our concern for the victims of 15 crimes by drug defendants? And what message 16 are we demonstrating and showing to children? 17 We should be talking about zero tolerance. 18 And we have a situation here where we don't 19 seal DWI for alcoholics, but we're going to 20 seal drug and drug-related offenses by drug 21 addicts. 22 So I think that these are serious 23 concerns. And professionals indicated why, 24 and we should listen. And apparently we

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 haven't. 2 But equally as important is this 3 process has become a travesty, this budget 4 process, because we say one thing but we don't 5 show what we say. We say that we want to be 6 open, and here we are putting into an omnibus 7 bill this major debate where we should have 8 had this debate alone, and now it's a part of 9 this budget which has nothing to do in regard 10 to the specific aspects of many components of 11 the budget. It should have stood alone. 12 And I think that's where there's an 13 erosion of confidence and credibility in the 14 State Capitol, and I think that's unfortunate 15 and unnecessary. We have heard people say 16 that we should take budget hearings across the 17 state. And I don't know why we wouldn't bring 18 this type of an issue across the state to 19 discuss and let it stand alone. 20 For those reasons, I vote no. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 22 Senator Griffo to be recorded in the negative. 23 The Secretary will please continue. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 2 Senator Hannon, to explain his vote. 3 SENATOR HANNON: Thank you, Madam 4 President. 5 Against the backdrop in the last 6 year in my district where a young lady died at 7 a party of a heroin overdose, and it turned 8 out that in the -- it's the southeastern 9 portion of my district, an area known as North 10 Massapequa and Massapequa. It turns out 11 there's a whole scourge of heroin coming in. 12 And it has generated meetings where hundreds 13 of parents have turned out. 14 And to me, it was an echo of what 15 had happened when I was in law school and 16 being familiar with when we were revising the 17 criminal laws in the late '60s, that something 18 new was happening that had not been in those 19 neighborhoods for over 30 years. And with 20 that backdrop, as this bill was introduced, I 21 got calls from professional colleagues and 22 different DAs' offices telling me how 23 basically the presumptions that we build into 24 the criminal system of having the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 professionals prosecute the crimes, having the 2 judge preside over the trials, has been 3 reversed, has been inverted. And I began to 4 realize how much we have cut the DAs out, and 5 the professionalism that we have worked to 6 instill in the system. 7 For those reasons, I don't believe 8 this is the right law, I don't believe this is 9 the right time. I was a cosponsor when we 10 revised the Rockefeller drug law. This is not 11 that type of reform. 12 I vote no, Madam President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 14 Senator Hannon to be recorded in the negative. 15 Secretary, please continue. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Hassell-Thompson voting in the affirmative 18 earlier today. 19 Senator Huntley. 20 SENATOR HUNTLEY: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator C. 22 Johnson. 23 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Yes. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator O.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Johnson. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 3 Senator Johnson, to explain his vote. 4 SENATOR OWEN JOHNSON: It's quite 5 evident from the discussion we've for the last 6 several hours on this bill that it's a 7 terrible bill, dangerous to our society, 8 dangerous to our families. In fact, it was 9 put into the budget deliberately so it would 10 be hidden from view. 11 That's one of the reasons we don't 12 have -- I guess we don't have conference 13 committees, because they didn't want this 14 explored, they didn't want us to find out the 15 other things that are terrible about this 16 bill. 17 The truth has come out now. I 18 don't know how those people who put this bill 19 in there knowing it's going to destroy our 20 society and our families could ever possibly 21 do it in good conscience. In fact, it must be 22 a deliberate intention to contaminate our 23 children and destroy families and create more 24 crime and -- well, they have to answer to the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 people why they put that in there. 2 But we're going to vote against it, 3 and I did right now. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 5 Senator O. Johnson to be recorded in the 6 negative. 7 The Secretary will please continue. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Klein. 9 SENATOR KLEIN: Yes. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator L. 11 Krueger. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 13 Senator L. Krueger, to explain her vote. 14 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 15 Madam President. 16 I don't really think we did a very 17 good job of hiding this in the budget. I 18 think everybody in New York State knew we were 19 talking about Rockefeller drug law reform. I 20 actually think we've been talking about it 21 most of my adult life. 22 Judicial discretion, that's what 23 we're talking about, returning power to the 24 judges and the courts to be able to make

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 decisions. Low-level, nonviolent drug 2 offenders, not peddlers, not drug lords, not 3 murderers, not abusers of children, not 4 terrorists. I must admit the fear-mongering 5 that was raised tonight led me to go back and 6 read the bill. I was a little confused about 7 what we were talking about. 8 I know what we're talking about. 9 We're talking about offering drug addicts 10 treatment instead of prison, at an enormous 11 savings to the State of New York. I know 12 we're talking about closing empty jails 13 because there's no justification in bad 14 economic times to spend money on empty jails. 15 I know that the empirical data for 16 me is that there's a difference in this house 17 between the Democrats running it and the 18 Republicans running it, because after 30 years 19 of failed Rockefeller drug law, in our first 20 three months we're going to pass reform of the 21 Rockefeller drug law. 22 And I am very proud to vote yes, 23 whether it was a freestanding bill or in the 24 budget bills tonight.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Thank you, Madam President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 3 Senator L. Krueger to be recorded in the 4 affirmative. 5 The Secretary will continue. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator C. 7 Kruger. 8 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: To explain 9 my vote, Madam President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 11 Senator C. Kruger, to explain his vote. 12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: I guess my 13 two colleagues and comrades in government, 14 Senator Espada and, in his very special way, 15 Senator Diaz, graphically illustrated and very 16 succinctly pointed out why we're voting on 17 this bill tonight. 18 In 1994, I joined this house, and 19 in 1995 one of the most critical votes that I 20 took, and quite frankly in defiance of the 21 vast majority of the people in my conference 22 at that time, was in support of the death 23 penalty. Because I am today and I always was 24 a very conservative Democrat.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 And I felt that even though the 2 death penalty may have been inappropriate, it 3 sent out a very clear and compelling message, 4 a message that said that the State of New York 5 was in a desperate position. And there was 6 virtually chaos that reigned our streets, and 7 we had to do something to send that message. 8 Well, today the message evolves and 9 it changes, because we're not static, but 10 we're in a state of flux. And tonight we have 11 a unique opportunity to refine what we built 12 on in 2004 and to once again revisit the issue 13 of the so-called Rockefeller drug laws and put 14 a different spin so that we can once again 15 make society part of an evolving process, a 16 process that says that we have an open heart 17 and an open mind and we want to rehabilitate. 18 We no longer have the Department of 19 Prisons, we have the Department of 20 Corrections. And OASAS has become an agency 21 unto itself because it has a mission and a 22 purpose, and that is to offer rehabilitation 23 to those people that are afflicted with a drug 24 problem.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 I vote yes. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 3 Senator C. Kruger to be recorded in the 4 affirmative. 5 The Secretary will continue. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lanza. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 8 Senator Lanza, to explain his vote. 9 SENATOR LANZA: Thank you, Madam 10 President. 11 First let me thank my good friend 12 and colleague Senator Adams. He, like my 13 father, was a New York City police officer. 14 I'm one of those people who believes we can 15 never thank our police officers enough for the 16 sacrifices and service they've given to our 17 state. 18 And truth be told, he's become -- 19 he and my dad have become friends, so I know 20 if I don't live up to his remarks, I'd be 21 letting down both he and his new friend. 22 There are a couple of things that I 23 didn't talk about earlier on the bill. First, 24 judicial discretion I believe is not a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 panacea. Right now, there is a discretion. 2 It involves the judge, the defense bar, and 3 the prosecutor, those who have all the facts 4 to use discretion with respect to these cases. 5 There was talk about black 6 defendants not getting the same sentences as 7 white defendants or upstate defendants not 8 getting the same sentences as downstate 9 defendants. That's precisely what I believe, 10 sadly, we're guaranteeing here by giving 11 judges discretion to do that which they 12 believe -- and remember, there are judges all 13 across the state that have different views on 14 these issues. 15 I truly believe -- and again, I 16 want to thank Senator Schneiderman. Although 17 we disagree on the issue here, I think he 18 brings great wisdom to the issue. But there's 19 great talent on this side of the aisle, on 20 both sides of the aisle, and there's great 21 talent and wisdom with respect to this issue 22 across the state. And I truly believe that 23 even great wisdom can be enlightened by a 24 better process and a thoughtful analysis. And

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 my fear now is that the process we have had 2 has led to a bad result. 3 And, Senator Diaz, I have to tell 4 you, we're going to have to agree to disagree, 5 my friend. Because you said two bags are not 6 too much? I think they're way too much, given 7 the type of destruction and carnage and the 8 ruination of lives that they will lead to. So 9 we're going to have to agree to disagree on 10 that one. 11 I have to say at this point now, I 12 pry that I'm wrong and you're right. 13 Otherwise, we're going to have a lot of 14 explaining to do. 15 Madam President, I vote no. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 17 Senator Lanza to be recorded in the negative. 18 The Secretary will continue. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 21 Senator Larkin, to explain his vote. 22 SENATOR LARKIN: Thank you, Madam 23 President. 24 You know, when I was elected to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 this body in 1990, I thought I had joined a 2 bunch of leaders. Having spent 23 years in 3 the military, in leadership from a private to 4 a colonel, I accepted responsibility. I 5 didn't hide from it. 6 What are we doing here? We're 7 taking a bill that everybody's scared to hell 8 of, and they hide it. We have 62 district 9 attorneys that are telling us, You're going to 10 compound the problem. We're going to transfer 11 the district attorneys out of it, we're going 12 to bring a judge in, and then this individual 13 who's accused can walk away from it. 14 If this bill would stand on its 15 own, it wouldn't. Guess why? We had two 16 amendments here; right? We had 30 votes. 17 Other side of the aisle, they weren't there. 18 Why weren't you there? Because you were 19 hiding. I want you to go home and tell your 20 people, I hid because I was afraid to vote on 21 something that may affect your life. 22 How many of you in this room have 23 ever run a company where there's troops that 24 are involved with drugs and you have to take

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 it and correct it for them? Nobody in their 2 right mind wants to see these young people 3 into an addiction. We all want to help them. 4 But what we've done here is created 5 a bill that's going to be called the "Drug 6 Dealer's Protection Act." I'm ashamed of us, 7 totally ashamed. Walk out of this, hide. I 8 heard a couple of people say, "I'm not going 9 in there, I don't want to be recorded." I 10 think we ought to have everybody here that 11 refused to vote on them -- I don't care how 12 you voted, but have the decency to say no or 13 yes. 14 I vote -- I think this is a 15 disgrace, but I vote no. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 17 Senator Larkin to be recorded in the negative. 18 The Secretary will continue. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 21 Senator LaValle, to explain his vote. 22 SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you, 23 Madam President. 24 In 2004, Senator Volker passed

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 reform to the Rockefeller drug laws. My 2 recollection was people were quite satisfied 3 by those changes. I sit here today, and I'm 4 saying who wants these changes? Why are we 5 here? Why are we voting on this bill? 6 I will tell you that as I 7 mentioned, our county legislature and the 8 county legislature in Nassau passed Natalie's 9 Law, passed it because there's a crisis in 10 both counties in terms of the dramatic 11 increase in the use of heroin and other opiate 12 drugs. 13 The DAs say this is bad. The law 14 enforcement people say this is bad. I 15 listened to Senator Schneiderman and he says 16 this is a good bill, no problem. So all the 17 DAs are wrong, all the law enforcement people 18 are wrong. And some of the people on our side 19 of the aisle who have great expertise in this 20 area say stop. 21 I will tell you, Senator Golden 22 said something tonight, because this is a 23 public protection issue. And when we vote on 24 these issues, I'll tell you, I usually lose

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 sleep. Because if I vote wrong, someone is 2 going to die because I may have cast the wrong 3 vote. This is serious, serious stuff that 4 means life or death to people. 5 I vote no, Madam President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 7 Senator LaValle to be recorded in the 8 negative. 9 The Secretary will continue. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 12 Senator Leibell, to explain his vote. 13 SENATOR LEIBELL: Thank you, 14 Madam President. 15 We will not debate a more 16 significant piece of legislation during this 17 session than what we are talking about this 18 evening. 19 And I want to talk about the 20 process for a moment, and I spoke about this 21 earlier. It is wrong to put this legislation 22 into the budget. 23 Senator LaValle commented earlier 24 about the Brennan Institute. Where are they?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Do they still exist? Only a short time ago 2 they were talking about openness in 3 government, and sunshine. Where are they now? 4 Under what mushroom do they reside? On whose 5 payroll do they exist? 6 Let me suggest to you that I know 7 something about this law. In 1975, I 8 prosecuted under this law. Not perfect then, 9 we reformed it, still not perfect. I did it 10 in the Westchester DA's office. We handled 11 most of our drug cases through the rackets 12 bureau, of which I was a member. 13 And I can tell you at that time 14 there was carnage in the streets. From our 15 suburbs to our inner cities, there was 16 carnage. That's why we had a tough law. 17 Perfect? Not at all. That's why we reformed 18 it only a couple of years ago. 19 And as Senator Lanza said, bring it 20 to the table. We need do more, let's do more. 21 Let's discuss it. But I will tell you what I 22 remember from prosecuting. I remember those 23 days very well. I remember that drugs and 24 violence are synonymous. They are one and the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 same. They are not distinct. I also remember 2 the carnage within families. It was horrible. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 4 Senator Leibell, how do you vote? 5 SENATOR LEIBELL: And I also 6 remember picking juries. You couldn't pick a 7 jury with a person from the inner city because 8 no family was untouched. They had all been 9 touched and were disqualified from juries. 10 I vote no. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 12 Senator Leibell to be recorded in the 13 negative. 14 The Secretary will continue. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 17 Senator Libous, to explain his vote. 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President, 19 to explain my no vote, please. 20 As a legislator I get involved, as 21 everybody in this chamber, in a number of 22 areas. When I was in the private sector, I 23 was in banking and I was in the printing 24 business. And while maybe I wasn't an expert,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 I thought I knew a little bit about those 2 fields. 3 I'm not in law enforcement. As 4 Senator LaValle said a few moments ago, this 5 is a serious, serious stuff. I have to defer 6 to the experts. Maybe there's one or two in 7 law enforcement in this room, and I would say 8 that there are folks here who have prosecuted 9 and probably understand this better than I do. 10 But when all the district attorneys 11 and the number of sheriffs who have written 12 letters to us and told us that this is bad 13 legislation, I have to defer to their 14 expertise, just like when I sit down with the 15 teachers and listen to what goes on in the 16 classroom or I sit down with psychologists and 17 psychiatrists when I chaired Mental Health and 18 learned about mental health, or any area 19 that -- I am generalist as a politician, 20 because we get involved in a little bit of 21 everything. 22 So, Madam President, I defer to the 23 experts. And so many DAs and so many sheriffs 24 and so many folks in law enforcement,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 including those who are here on the floor with 2 maybe some conflicting views -- but the 3 majority have said don't vote for this 4 legislation; this is bad policy, this is 5 dangerous. 6 I vote no. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 8 Senator Libous to be recorded in the negative. 9 The Secretary to continue. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Little. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 12 Senator Little, to explain her vote. 13 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you, Madam 14 President. 15 In 2004 I voted for the reform of 16 the Rockefeller drug laws, and we eliminated 17 the onerous 15-year mandated sentence. We did 18 much then. But what we are doing today has 19 really brought out our district attorneys, our 20 prosecutors, to come to us to say, Do you 21 realize what this bill does, what you will be 22 voting for? 23 I had DAs down here a week ago who 24 were passionate and passionately spoke to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 anyone I could introduce them to from your 2 side to try to talk to you about why they felt 3 this is such a bad bill. They would have had 4 an opportunity to speak at a hearing had you 5 had such a thing. 6 And we do have a lot of hearings. 7 We have no problem having hearings about 8 wetlands and all kinds of different issues. 9 This issue should have gone before the public. 10 We should have had hearings. We should have 11 made sure that if we get into this that we 12 have enough drug rehabilitation programs, that 13 we have enough probation officers. 14 And we ought to warn the counties, 15 because many of these offenders will end up in 16 county jails. First-time Class B felony drug 17 offenders, nonviolent Class C, D and E drug 18 offenders will be eligible for a local jail 19 sentence. And that's after, in this budget, 20 we also eliminated reimbursement to local 21 correctional facilities for the parole 22 violators or the state-ready inmates. 23 So yes, you may be saving money on 24 the state prison scene, but you are dumping it

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 into the county jails and the cost to the 2 county. 3 I don't regret what I voted on in 4 2004, but I truly believe that you're going to 5 regret voting on this bill today if you vote 6 yes. I vote no. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 8 Senator Little to be recorded in the negative. 9 The Secretary will continue. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator 11 Marcellino. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 13 Senator Marcellino, to explain his vote. 14 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you, 15 Madam President. 16 We're all reading about a drug war 17 that is going on just south of our border. 18 President Obama is considering moving troops 19 to the southern border of this country to 20 print the spillover into our country of the 21 cartel drug dealers who are trying to 22 literally take over Mexico and make it a 23 failed state. 24 In my district recently there was a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 couple of shootings. Some innocents were 2 killed as a result of it. The police 3 investigated and found out that there are 4 local gangs that are international gangs 5 connected to these cartels who are pushing 6 drugs in our communities. Heroin is on the 7 rise on Long Island, in my district, in 8 everybody else's district. It is all over 9 this state. It is coming back. 10 I taught in the City of New York 11 for twenty years. In the '70s, I was there in 12 the schools, on the front line, watching kids 13 fall down, die, commit suicide, and walk 14 through schools like zombies because they were 15 stoned out of their minds. We were beside 16 ourselves, we were overwhelmed for a long 17 period of time. 18 It kind of waned, but it's coming 19 back. Heroin is coming back. Our kids are 20 falling victim. If you think this is 21 nonviolent, if you think that dealing in drugs 22 is nonviolent, you are sorely mistaken. It 23 will affect us all. 24 This is not the time to weaken our

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 laws. This is not the time to give the wrong 2 message to the dealers, to our children, to 3 anyone who thinks using drugs is okay at any 4 level and using any kind of drug is okay at 5 any level. Because it's dangerous. It hurts, 6 it destroys families, it will destroy 7 communities, and it will destroy our nation if 8 we allow it. 9 Ladies and gentlemen, this 10 discussion should be continued. This bill 11 deserves better than this. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 13 Senator Marcellino, how do you vote? 14 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I will vote 15 no. But I'm hoping that I'll be joined by 16 someone on the other side who will help us 17 take this bill out and will do the right thing 18 and carry it forward and open debate. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 20 Senator Marcellino to be recorded in the 21 negative. 22 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you, 23 Madam President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 The Secretary to continue. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 4 Senator Maziarz, to explain his vote. 5 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you very 6 much, Madam President. 7 Madam President, I am going to 8 refer, as I know my colleagues Senator Volker 9 and Senator Ranzenhofer had, to someone who is 10 much more knowledgeable than me. That's the 11 new district attorney of Erie County, Frank 12 Sedita, III. 13 District Attorney Sedita called me 14 the other day to tell me how frustrated he was 15 to think that the Legislature would even 16 consider passing this bill, that this bill, as 17 he said, will have devastating, devastating 18 consequences for public safety. 19 I was moved also by my colleague 20 Senator Lanza's remarks. You know, I live in 21 a small community of about 8,000 people. I 22 don't know that I have ever been in public 23 housing. I thought about that when Senator 24 Lanza mentioned it.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 And you know, I think today that I 2 agree with Senator Lanza. I hope we're wrong 3 and I hope you're right. Because if you're 4 not right, generations of little boys and 5 little girls that live in public housing are 6 going to be exposed to the scourge of drug 7 traffickers. Tomorrow morning at 7 o'clock 8 I'm going to go down to St. Mary's for mass, 9 and I'm going to pray that you were right. 10 I vote in the negative. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 12 Senator Maziarz to be recorded in the 13 negative. 14 The Secretary will continue. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator McDonald. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 17 Senator McDonald, to explain his vote. 18 SENATOR McDONALD: Thank you, 19 Madam President. 20 I'd like to thank everybody here 21 for their passion. Senator Lanza, I'd like to 22 thank you for your experience. Senator 23 Marcellino, I want to thank you for bringing 24 up a group of people that have not been talked

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 about tonight enough, just innocent victims, 2 just families, people walking down that 3 street, driving that car, going to work every 4 day. Not rich, not affluent, not hip, not 5 living in a hip community. Just average folk 6 who become victims to these crimes. 7 It could be a DWI, it could be a 8 crime with drugs, I don't care anymore. I've 9 heard enough therapy excuses. I care about 10 these innocent people. I plead with you, 11 protect innocent people, the average folk that 12 make up the background of our community, the 13 heart and soul. 14 They feel sometimes too much 15 attention is directed to the criminal and not 16 enough to the victim. We know that's not 17 always true. We know we're trying to help 18 people, reform them, correct them. But too 19 often we have forgotten about these victims. 20 My DAs, both of them, different 21 parties, in my two counties, are opposed to 22 this, and they're good DAs. My two sheriffs, 23 both of them are opposed to this. They're 24 great men. All of those folks are good

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 people. 2 The challenge we have -- and maybe 3 that's what we should have, is a challenge. 4 Maybe some communities who don't want to 5 change these laws should be allowed to keep 6 them, and we will look 24 months from now for 7 the communities who did want to change them, 8 and compare the statistics and the human 9 misery and tragedy. 10 Maybe that's the answer. Give us a 11 chance. Maybe one size does not fit all. 12 Maybe let my communities police and protect 13 our people, and you do the same. I'd respect 14 that -- 15 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 16 Senator McDonald, how do you vote? 17 SENATOR McDONALD: I vote no. 18 And thank you for the time. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 20 Senator McDonald to be recorded in the 21 negative. 22 The Secretary will continue. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator 24 Monserrate.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 2 Senator Monserrate, to explain his vote. 3 SENATOR MONSERRATE: Thank you, 4 Madam Chair. 5 Let me say that I've had the 6 opportunity for now well over five hours to 7 hear many of the arguments both for and 8 against this important piece of legislation. 9 And I think the crux of it is basically the 10 following. Do we treat addiction with 11 intensive treatment, or do we treat those who 12 are chemically dependent with prison? 13 And I think if you put that into 14 that context, we could all agree that we want 15 to fight drugs in our communities. No one 16 knows that more than people of color who have 17 lived in communities where crack sales and 18 heroin sales have been a reality. That their 19 families, including this humble Senator 20 speaking in front of you, have been impacted 21 directly by the scourge of drugs. 22 But I also understand that despite 23 the animations of Reverend Diaz, that his 24 point was succinct. In our communities, what

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Rockefeller drug laws have done is created 2 permanent families who were broken apart by a 3 system that stated that they were trying to 4 help them by putting their family members in 5 prison. 6 And at the end of the day, ladies 7 and gentlemen, that caused more harm to 8 society, to our city, and to our state than 9 the very drugs that were impacting those 10 communities. 11 I want to just say the following. 12 I've heard arguments about economics, about 13 the impact of closing prisons. I've heard 14 arguments about professionals and the experts. 15 Well, just a few weeks ago we confirmed the 16 top lawman in the State of New York, Justice 17 Lippmann, who supports our position on 18 Rockefeller drug law reform. 19 So I encourage my colleagues to 20 stay strong. It is a difficult issue. And 21 perhaps there even are some arguments from the 22 other side that we can look at in the future. 23 But if I had to err, ladies and gentlemen, I 24 would err on the side of compassion. If I had

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 to err -- 2 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 3 Senator Monserrate. 4 SENATOR MONSERRATE: -- I would 5 err on keeping families together -- 6 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 7 How do you vote? 8 SENATOR MONSERRATE: -- and 9 treating chemical dependency as an illness and 10 not a crime. I vote yes. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 12 Senator Monserrate to be recorded in the 13 affirmative. 14 The Secretary will continue. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator 16 Montgomery. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 18 Senator Montgomery, to explain her vote. 19 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, thank 20 you, Mr. President -- Madam President, excuse 21 me. Forgive me. 22 I would like to rise and just thank 23 some people who have made this historical 24 moment possible, who kept the hope alive even

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 when it appeared sometimes that we would never 2 get to this day. And I wanted to call their 3 names because I would like for some of them to 4 be in the record. 5 And I would start by thanking my 6 colleagues Assemblyman Aubry and Senator 7 Schneiderman, who really brought us to this 8 moment. This is extremely important to me and 9 I think to many of us across this state. 10 And I want to thank Father Peter 11 Young, who had had a vision many years ago, I 12 think even before the Rockefeller drug laws, 13 when he began working with people who were 14 returning from prison and gave us a model for 15 how we could help people successfully return 16 home. 17 And I want to thank Oscar Jones, 18 who was a young man who served over 20 years 19 in prison and who came to testify here in the 20 Legislature to point out to us how we had 21 spent, during his 20 years, over a million 22 dollars incarcerating him. And in the year 23 and a half or so that he had been out and with 24 Father Young's program, it was maybe $10,000,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 $15,000 that we spent, but he now was a 2 tax-paying citizen. 3 And I want to thank Charles 4 Hamilton, who was a young man that I met in 5 Green Haven many, many years ago. He was oh 6 so young there in prison, but he was chair of 7 the NAACP chapter there -- 8 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 9 Senator Montgomery. 10 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I'm going to 11 take a little bit longer because everybody 12 took my time and I want to thank some people, 13 Madam President. 14 So Charles Hamilton remained -- he 15 was chair of the NAACP chapter in Green Haven. 16 He stayed in touch with me, he organized other 17 people in prison. Unfortunately, he passed 18 away on the day of the inauguration of Obama. 19 And I want to thank John David, who 20 also was incarcerated, who came to me and 21 in -- he was the embodiment of what we could 22 do for people if we gave them an opportunity 23 to be successful when they returned. And he 24 convinced me that we should be supporting the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 kinds of programs that would help people who 2 had been incarcerated. 3 And I thank Bob Gangi and the 4 Correctional Association for his leadership, 5 and so many advocates who have followed us 6 across the state. They are from all parts of 7 the state, upstate, all of the counties -- 8 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 9 Senator Montgomery. 10 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: They 11 represent the soldiers in this army. They are 12 the ones that we owe for the fact that they 13 have -- 14 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 15 Senator Montgomery. 16 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: -- kept the 17 dream alive. 18 And so tonight we celebrate the 19 victory for them, we celebrate the victory for 20 all of those people who have been sucked out 21 of their communities because they had an 22 addiction, and now they can hopefully come 23 back. And we want to be able to successfully 24 to receive them so that --

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 2 Senator Montgomery, how do you vote? 3 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: -- they 4 become successful citizens in our state, in 5 our cities. A lot of them will come back to 6 my district. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 8 How do you vote, Senator Montgomery? 9 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I vote yes, 10 yes, yes. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 12 Senator Montgomery to be recorded 13 affirmatively in the affirmative. 14 The Secretary will continue. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Morahan. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 17 Senator Morahan, to explain his vote. 18 SENATOR MORAHAN: Thank you, 19 Madam President. 20 You know, I heard a lot of words 21 here tonight. First, the issue of folding 22 this very important legislation within a 23 budget bill, which I think it does a 24 disservice.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 I think, Senator Schneiderman, with 2 all your passion and compassion for this 3 issue, I think that you would have been better 4 served and the state would have been better 5 served had we a full and open discussion. 6 But we're talking about justice 7 here. And it seems that we're talking about 8 rehabilitation of addicts. And I don't know 9 of anyone who's really against that. But we 10 have to question, how do these addicts become 11 addicts? How did they get the drug? Who gave 12 them the drug? And who was making money while 13 they were destroying that young life? 14 So justice for those who use it is 15 one thing, but justice for the victims, 16 justice for those who have been addicted by 17 criminals and criminal acts, ought to be also 18 considered. 19 And to fly in the face of all auto 20 the experts and have a hidden bill -- I know 21 Senator Krueger brought up the idea that this 22 was out in the open. Well, we read about it 23 in the newspapers. And 99 percent of what I 24 read was negative. I didn't read too much, if

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 anything -- I can't recall it -- that was 2 positive. 3 So I think it was the wrong 4 approach. I'm not knocking the issue; it's 5 something that has to be very, very seriously 6 considered. And the compassion has to be for 7 the victims and for our children and for the 8 protection -- this says "protection" in the 9 heading of this bill -- protection for those 10 that we represent and who we serve. 11 Thank you. I vote no. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 13 Senator Morahan to be recorded in the 14 negative. 15 The Secretary will continue. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nozzolio. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 18 Senator Nozzolio, to explain his vote. 19 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you very 20 much, Madam President. 21 I vote no on this outrageous 22 proposal. While the Democrats on the other 23 side of the aisle are praising the victory of 24 drug dealers, addicts, and advocates of drugs,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 I am mourning the defeat of employee rights in 2 this state, employee rights for those brave -- 3 thousands of brave men and women who work in 4 our correctional facilities, who lay their 5 lives on the line each and every day. 6 And secreted within this 7 legislation is a proposal that takes away 8 their rights and notice and says to the 9 correction officers, We're going to close the 10 facilities, SHUs and annexes, over a dozen of 11 those SHUs and annexes in areas like Watertown 12 and Cape Vincent, Riverview in Ogdensburg, 13 Cayuga and Oneida. Those facilities can be 14 closed now without notice to this Legislature, 15 without consultation with this Legislature. 16 They can be closed at the whim of the 17 Corrections Department, all because you're 18 voting now on this bill. 19 So the next time the correction 20 officers come to this city and come to this 21 Legislature and say "We need your help," they 22 need to know that you said no in favor of 23 others more important in priority to those 24 brave men and women. That should not be

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 forgotten in this legislation. 2 It's another reason, yet another 3 reason to defeat it, Madam President, and 4 that's why I vote no. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 6 Senator Nozzolio to be recorded in the 7 negative. 8 The Secretary will continue. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Onorato. 10 SENATOR ONORATO: Aye. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator 12 Oppenheimer. 13 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Aye. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 16 Senator Padavan, to explain his vote. 17 SENATOR PADAVAN: Very quickly, 18 Madam President. I'd like to address several 19 things that have been said here. 20 First, Senator Schneiderman said 21 that these drug pushers are immediately 22 subject to deportation. The reality of it is 23 quite another matter. There are thousands of 24 illegal immigrants in our state prisons. I

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 don't know how many are at Rikers Island and 2 other local lockups. But they're not 3 deported. They're arrested, they're 4 arraigned, they're prosecuted, and they end up 5 in our state prison. When they complete their 6 sentence, some of them are deported. 7 So let's put that issue aside in 8 your discussion with Senator Golden. You were 9 wrong, he was right. 10 The statement here earlier that 11 these are not violent acts, I can't think of 12 anything more violent than selling drugs and 13 sending some youngster into a path of 14 addiction, ruining their lives. That's 15 violence. If it was my kid, believe me, I'd 16 become the one who was violent. And so would 17 you. So would you. 18 Now, Senator Diaz, who held up 19 these two packets before, symbolically -- I 20 assume they were to replicate packets of some 21 drug, crack, heroin, cocaine, whatever -- it 22 would take no more than those two packets. 23 And I can tell you this firsthand, by virtue 24 of the parents and the children I met

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 face-to-face during hearings that I held years 2 ago when I chaired the appropriate committee 3 dealing with the subject. 4 All it would take is that to get 5 them addicted, and many of them were. Some of 6 them got into programs, thankfully, and had 7 their lives turned around. Others ended up in 8 an emergency ward ODing. 9 So don't hold those up, Senator, 10 wherever you are, because that's death in your 11 hands. I vote no. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 13 Senator Padavan to be recorded in the 14 negative. 15 The Secretary will continue. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Parker. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 18 Senator Parker, to explain his vote. 19 SENATOR PARKER: Madam President, 20 to explain my vote. 21 I rise in support of this public 22 protection bill. And I have long been a 23 supporter of the reform of the Rockefeller 24 drug laws. And I want to just really thank

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 and congratulate Senator Eric Schneiderman for 2 his work, Assemblyman Aubry, Ruth 3 Hassell-Thompson, and others who worked really 4 hard on this bill. 5 But let's get the record straight. 6 And let's get the record straight particularly 7 about what we are voting for and what you're 8 voting against. Because you're not just 9 voting on the Rockefeller drug laws. 10 Today, you decided to vote against 11 legal services in all of our communities. You 12 decided to vote against resources for domestic 13 violence survivors. You have decided to vote 14 against gun violence reduction programs. You 15 have decided to vote against 1,391 more police 16 from federal stimulus money. You have decided 17 to vote against $150 million more for homeland 18 security. You have decided to vote against 19 the National Guard, many of which are serving 20 right now, as we stand here, in Iraq. 21 You have decided to vote against -- 22 and this is with no surprise -- a commission 23 on public integrity. You have decided to vote 24 against more funds for State Police. You have

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 decided to vote against veterans affairs 2 programs which we need more than ever, 3 particularly with many of our veterans coming 4 back. 5 So with respect, New York right 6 now, Madam President, is a safer, stronger and 7 more secure place because of the vote that 8 this Majority is taking right now today. 9 I vote aye. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 11 Senator Parker to be recorded in the 12 affirmative. 13 The Secretary will continue. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Perkins. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 16 Senator Perkins, to explain his vote. 17 SENATOR PERKINS: I want to first 18 commend my colleague Senator Schneiderman and 19 Assemblyman Aubry especially for this 20 momentous occasion in which an injustice that 21 has been perpetrated against our communities 22 for so long is finally being lifted from us. 23 You know, I have a very personal 24 relationship to the Rockefeller drug laws, not

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 only in terms of my family. Our communities 2 have been the target of the drug trafficking 3 and have been the victims of the drug 4 trafficking in terms of enormous drug 5 addiction. 6 This is a piece of legislation that 7 will address the addiction, the addiction that 8 has resulted in so many of our family members 9 and our neighbors being put into those prisons 10 that now others are calling for to remain open 11 even as they need to be closed. 12 Let me just also point out, you 13 know, the beginning of the drug trafficking 14 era began with the Vietnam War, when the 15 veterans of that war were coming home 16 drug-addicted and when those veterans were not 17 provided with the opportunity for 18 rehabilitation. 19 And so this has been a very serious 20 problem for our communities that has been 21 aggravated by the lack of proper 22 rehabilitation and proper appreciation for 23 what actually was going on. This is not about 24 supporting drug trafficking or drug laws.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 This is about supporting rehabilitation for 2 those who have been victimized as drug 3 addicts. 4 And so, again, I think this is a 5 very, very important piece of legislation. 6 It's a historic piece of legislation. This is 7 not about murders, rapists, and robbers, it's 8 about drug addicts. It's about those who have 9 not been given the opportunity to fix a 10 problem and then begin to make contributions 11 to society. 12 So this will help us in terms of -- 13 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 14 Senator Perkins, how do you vote? 15 SENATOR PERKINS: -- making them 16 productive members of society. 17 And so I want to obviously vote yes 18 in support of this legislation, and realize 19 that this is not the beginning. There's more 20 that has to be done with this -- 21 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 22 Senator Perkins -- 23 SENATOR PERKINS: -- and I look 24 forward to making sure that that happens.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Thank you. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 3 Senator Perkins to be recorded in the 4 affirmative. 5 The Secretary will continue. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator 7 Ranzenhofer. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 9 Senator Ranzenhofer, to explain his vote. 10 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Thank you. 11 I get scared when I hear that this 12 is not the beginning, because that to me means 13 that the next step is to legalize all drugs, 14 and that scares me. 15 I am very concerned about the 16 process and the substance. Before I came 17 here, I and many members in my community 18 thought that Albany was one of the most 19 dysfunctional places in America. They thought 20 it was very secretive, there was no openness, 21 there was no transparency. Then I arrived 22 here, and I cannot disagree. 23 When you have budget bills that are 24 put together in secret, when you have no

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 public hearings -- obviously, with the debate 2 going on for five or six hours on a very 3 important issue. And to make a point that 4 Senator Parker said, when you combine changes 5 in criminal and penal law and bury that in a 6 financial budget bill, that's not 7 transparency. 8 It's evident to me, based on the 9 two stand-alone votes that were taken on the 10 amendments, when many Senators in this chamber 11 didn't have the courage to cast a vote but 12 instead were absent, that tells me what the 13 outcome of this bill would have been. It 14 would have failed if it stood alone. And the 15 reason it would have failed is because it's a 16 bad bill. 17 On the substance, I also want to 18 stand with the correction officers, with the 19 sheriffs, with the police officers, with the 20 DAs. I don't believe, as some of my 21 colleagues do, that they are fear-mongering, 22 that they are uninformed, that they have an ax 23 to grind, that they are extremist. 24 I think that these people are

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 dedicated law enforcement professionals, as my 2 DA is in Erie County, and who is a member of 3 the other party. I think they have the best 4 interest of their community at heart, as do I 5 think the members on the other side have the 6 best interest of their community at heart. 7 And there is a -- 8 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 9 Senator Ranzenhofer, how do you vote? 10 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: I'm just 11 going to take another second, like Senator 12 Montgomery, and finish the thought. 13 When my DA says to me that the 14 proposed legislation will have devastating 15 consequences for public safety, and in 16 conclusion when my DA says to me that 17 dangerous drug dealers will be released back 18 in the neighborhoods they were destroying, and 19 the residents of those neighborhoods will pay 20 the price -- 21 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 22 Senator Ranzenhofer, how do you vote? 23 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: -- I don't 24 think that they are fear-mongering, I think

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 they're just trying to provide some guidance 2 to all of us on this legislation. 3 I will vote no. Thank you for the 4 extra time. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 6 Senator Ranzenhofer to be recorded in the 7 negative. 8 The Secretary will continue. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Robach. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 11 Senator Robach, to explain his vote. 12 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes, Madam 13 President. Let me say again, this is 14 certainly a complex issue. And I appreciate 15 everybody's comments. But again, I have to go 16 back to process, process, process. 17 I was hopeful -- I represent the 18 heart of the City of Rochester -- that we 19 could get to a place where we would expand 20 opportunities and funding for treatment on 21 demand in things that work, like drug court, 22 where we are really quantifying who will work, 23 who is really an addict, who is not a violent 24 criminal, who may not have a history of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 violence. 2 Because in the neighborhoods that 3 many people on the other side of the aisle 4 talked about, there's another constituent 5 group there. Those are the mothers, the 6 grandmothers who have never done a drug, who 7 live in fear every day that their kid's going 8 to get preyed on walking to school, walking to 9 the bus stop, by those who have literally 10 taken over complete neighborhoods. 11 And I think that if we had a little 12 more time to talk about this, if it was a 13 stand-alone bill -- again, a better process -- 14 we might have been able to come to a better 15 compromise and the vote might then be 16 unanimous in this house. Everybody knows for 17 people who really aren't preying on somebody 18 else, I think for every reason we want them 19 unaddicted so there's no recidivism rate, no 20 more crime, and no more preying. But for the 21 people who have made a decision that this is a 22 way of life, a way to make money, a way to 23 make sustenance, I can tell you, as much as 24 people talked about how it was bad before, I

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 could put you in my car and take you to 2 neighborhoods in Rochester, who unfortunately, 3 when I walk Paetec with queen mothers and 4 people in that neighborhood doing good things 5 for a hundred years, those drug dealers are 6 still running the neighborhood. 7 And I don't think this bill strikes 8 that right balance where I can go back to them 9 and say, We did something to help protect you. 10 There's a fear in my mind that we didn't. 11 I wish there was a way that we had 12 the time and the process to try and put the 13 money in treatment and do that. And you know 14 what? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 16 Senator Robach -- 17 SENATOR ROBACH: We still can. 18 Let's take these rules out, leave the money 19 in, let the people locally who are already 20 doing this -- 21 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 22 Senator Robach, how do you vote? 23 SENATOR ROBACH: -- who's not 24 addicted to do that. I think that would be a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 better way to go. I apologize for the extra 2 second, Madam President. I vote in the 3 negative. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 5 Senator Robach to be recorded in the negative. 6 The Secretary will continue. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 8 SENATOR SALAND: To explain my 9 vote, Madam President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 11 Senator Saland, to explain his vote. 12 SENATOR SALAND: Madam President, 13 I have long subscribed to the belief that 14 among government's principle responsibilities, 15 first and foremost is public safety. 16 Everything flows from public safety. Your 17 communities are safe, your quality of life is 18 improved. Without public safety, your 19 community, your community's quality of life is 20 jeopardized. 21 There's nobody on this side of the 22 aisle who's opposed to abuse programs, 23 substance abuse programs. What we're opposed 24 to is the manner in which this has been

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 delivered. If this is described as open or 2 nonsecretive, as I believe I heard Senator 3 Krueger say, I think you fail Reform 101, 4 simply because what we did in 2004 was open, 5 it was clear, there were weeks of discussions. 6 This bill has in its title five 7 pages. So I agree with Senator Parker, it 8 provides plenty of cover to those who can now 9 say, Well, I didn't like it, but I voted for 10 it because. 11 Now, as Senator Ranzenhofer pointed 12 out, there were two amendments that failed by 13 30 to 20 votes. I can recall from my days in 14 the Assembly back in the '70s, believe it or 15 not, when an amendment did pass, to 16 everybody's surprise. It was a death penalty 17 amendment. 18 And I would suggest to you that 19 those who left the chamber and chose not to be 20 recorded, including Senator Foley, Senator 21 Johnson, Senator Savino, probably owe it to 22 their constituents to let them know where they 23 stand purely on the Golden bill, which would 24 have repealed this language and given us the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 opportunity to have an open and frank 2 discussion. Because that would have been 3 something that would have been far more 4 meaningful. 5 Now, if you want judicial 6 discretion, that's great. Think of the '70s, 7 think of the judicial discretion of the '70s 8 and what it did to the streets of New York. 9 Think of that, remembering. Some of you 10 perhaps aren't old enough to remember it. 11 That discretion put people out on the streets. 12 There was a judge who unfortunately for him 13 became known -- 14 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 15 Senator Saland, how do you vote? 16 SENATOR SALAND: -- by "Let 'Em 17 Loose." 18 How do I vote? I think you can 19 surmise how I vote. But let me just 20 conclude -- 21 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 22 Senator, shall I surmise? 23 SENATOR SALAND: Let me conclude; 24 I will tell you. I will conclude once again

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 by reading the quote that I read earlier in 2 the New York Post -- 3 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 4 Senator Saland -- 5 SENATOR SALAND: -- making 6 reference to the Assembly staff, the majority 7 Assembly staff, in the context as was provided 8 by Senator Klein of a civil confinement bill 9 that -- 10 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 11 Senator -- 12 SENATOR SALAND: -- "Leadership 13 is holding it up because you have some staff 14 whose only reason for living" -- 15 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 16 Senator Saland, as you said, you did read that 17 previously. So I think we need to move on. 18 Shall we record you in the 19 negative? 20 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Madam 21 President. I'll be recorded in the negative. 22 SENATOR ADAMS: Point of order. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 24 Thank you, Senator Saland.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR GRIFFO: Point of order, 2 Madam President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 4 There was a point of order to my left, and now 5 to my right. Shall I take Senator Adams' 6 point of order first? 7 SENATOR ADAMS: I just think it's 8 important -- we all have passion, we all have 9 position. And I even say to my colleagues on 10 this side of the aisle, the only thing that 11 separates us from those countries where 12 there's disorder is order. We need to respect 13 the chair. 14 Our passions are not more important 15 than those across the aisle. It's two minute 16 argument. I had more to say; I stopped it. 17 We need to respect the chair. And that's on 18 both sides of the aisle. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 20 Point of order well-taken. 21 Senator Griffo. 22 SENATOR GRIFFO: Madam Chair, I 23 rise to that very point of order. You set a 24 precedent here by extending a courtesy to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Montgomery to exceed the two-minute 2 rule. 3 So I think you should apply that 4 same courtesy to the remainder of the 5 individuals who are speaking tonight under 6 this particular vote. So let's be fair. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 8 Senator Griffo, your point of order is 9 well-taken. I think that, quite frankly, I 10 have been fair. And think that as the hour 11 gets late, we want to extend the same courtesy 12 to everyone. 13 You heard what happened, the 14 exchange between Senator Montgomery and 15 myself. But what I will say is that Senator 16 Montgomery did not speak on the bill. Many 17 people have spoken on the bill. 18 And I think that this is part of 19 trying to move this fairly. But I think that 20 the point of order is that it is a two-minute 21 argument, and we are almost towards the end. 22 Senator Griffo. 23 SENATOR GRIFFO: Then I would 24 say, in accordance with what you just raised

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 then, Madam President, I would say that anyone 2 who has not spoken on the bill would be 3 extended the same courtesy that Senator 4 Montgomery had. Correct? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 6 I think I've been courteous to everyone, 7 Senator Griffo. 8 SENATOR GRIFFO: Will you extend 9 that same courtesy? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 11 I think the courtesy has been extended from 12 the chair, and I think that the courtesy we're 13 asking for now is to each other. Okay? 14 SENATOR GRIFFO: Okay. You will 15 extend that same courtesy. Thank you. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 17 I continue to be courteous. 18 The Secretary will continue to call 19 the roll. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sampson. 21 SENATOR SAMPSON: Madam 22 President, I'd like to speak on the bill. And 23 I hope I'm extended the same courtesy as 24 Senator Montgomery if I go over two minutes.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 But I'll try to be quick and brief. 2 I'm not -- you know, I don't speak 3 unless, you know, I hear issues that really 4 impact. And you know, Senator Ranzenhofer, 5 there is no cowards in this chamber, on this 6 side of the aisle or that side of the aisle. 7 So let's get that straight, there are no 8 cowards here. 9 You know, I'm listening to the 10 debate, and it was a very fruitful and 11 spirited debate. But the issues I hear are 12 basically it seems that there are no drug 13 addicts, nothing but drug dealers. This state 14 that we represent only consists of 15 prosecutors, sheriffs, and correction 16 officers, immigrants or criminals. Judges 17 lack the ability to have discretion. Prisons 18 are a form of economic development. And all 19 of a sudden, because of the Democrats are in 20 charge, prisons are going to open and the 21 floodgates are going to open. 22 Senator DeFrancisco, you said you 23 made those changes in 2004. You know, the 24 same prosecutors that are sending these

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 letters against it in 2009 were the same 2 prosecutors in 2004. Let me quote you from 3 Bridget Brennan -- who, by the way, her child 4 and our children go to the same school. But 5 let me quote what she said in 2005. 6 "Most importantly, the signing of 7 this bill" -- 2004 -- "would send the 8 following message, that we did not take drug 9 crime and its devastating effects seriously." 10 And we talk about -- we read 11 letters from prosecutors. I haven't heard 12 anybody pull up a letter from a victim or a 13 letter from a constituent. 14 Let me read you a letter from the 15 Upstate Pharmacists in Support of Rockefeller 16 Drug Reform. "We are writing in today in full 17 support of Senate Bill 2855 for real reform of 18 the Rockefeller drug laws. For more than 19 35 years, the Rockefeller drug laws have 20 increased our state's prison population and 21 inflated the Department of Correctional 22 Services' budget. As a result, New York State 23 has prioritized its funding of the criminal 24 justice system over other economic

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 developments which would better serve the 2 upstate economy and its residents. Preserving 3 farmland, building infrastructure for 4 production and distribution of goods, 5 investing in marketing and training are all 6 necessary for a long-term" -- 7 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 8 Senator Sampson. 9 SENATOR SAMPSON: I'm not -- I'm 10 not -- 11 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 12 I understand. Senator Sampson, how do you 13 vote? 14 SENATOR SAMPSON: How do I vote? 15 (Pause.) I vote aye. 16 (Laughter.) 17 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 18 Senator Sampson to be recorded in the 19 affirmative. 20 The Secretary will continue to call 21 the roll. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Savino. 23 SENATOR SAVINO: Yes. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Schneiderman. 2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 3 Madam President. To explain my vote quickly. 4 I want to thank all my colleagues. 5 This has been an extraordinary undertaking. 6 I've been working on this for some years. I 7 appreciate very much the debate we've had 8 tonight. 9 I would like to say, though, that 10 there are times when you have to recognize 11 that the old ways don't work anymore. There 12 are times you have to recognize that it's time 13 to move in a new direction. And with all due 14 respect to all of my colleagues on the other 15 side of the aisle, I think that last fall, in 16 this country and in this state, people voted 17 for a new direction. 18 We can do better. We can do better 19 than the mass incarceration of people who need 20 treatment, not prison. This bill is designed 21 to separate out those in need of treatment 22 from those who cannot benefit from treatment. 23 It is an absolutely well-thought-through, most 24 sincere effort to make this a safer state.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 And I would urge all of my 2 colleagues, whatever your doubts, work with us 3 to succeed in this new direction. We can have 4 a safer state. We can make it safer for all 5 of our children. That's everyone's goal. 6 And finally, if I can read very 7 quickly, I want to read a portion of a letter, 8 since there have been so many tonight. 9 "In case anyone has noticed, the 10 last 36 years of this archaic, draconian law 11 has created little pockets of hell for our 12 urban areas. Hell is being a low-level 13 nonviolent offender with a drug problem who is 14 locked up in our prisons with violent 15 offenders. Hell is having no access to jobs 16 except for those in an illicit economy. Hell 17 is living in a community that year after year 18 faces increased incarceration rates but 19 diminishing services and opportunities, all 20 based largely on one's race and income. 21 "The Rockefeller drug laws don't 22 work. We need a new approach. This 23 legislation is a step in the right direction. 24 "The Honorable David Soares,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 District Attorney of Albany County." 2 There are lots of prosecutors who 3 support this bill. Half the people on the 4 Sentencing Commission -- 5 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 6 Senator Schneiderman. 7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: -- were 8 prosecutors and former prosecutors. Let's all 9 work together as we go forward. 10 I vote yes, Madam President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 12 Senator Schneiderman to be recorded in the 13 affirmative. 14 The Secretary will continue. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Serrano. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 17 Senator Serrano, to explain his vote. 18 SENATOR SERRANO: Thank you, 19 Madam Chair. 20 I want to thank Senator 21 Schneiderman, and I also want to thank all my 22 colleagues here in this chamber for, I think, 23 a wonderful debate, I think a very spirited 24 debate. Considering the roller coaster of a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 day that we've had, I think it was something 2 worthy of this chamber. 3 And I agree with the passion on the 4 Republican side of the aisle. And I agree 5 with something very dear to me, that I hate 6 drugs. And it's important to understand that. 7 Those who are in favor of reforming these laws 8 hate drugs. Hate drug use, hate drug dealers, 9 hate what drugs has done to the community. 10 And when you consider that I 11 represent East Harlem and the South Bronx, one 12 only has to think of the 1980s in the South 13 Bronx during the crack epidemic to realize 14 that these laws unfortunately did not achieve 15 their desired result. 16 So I say, in the spirit of wanting 17 to eradicate drugs, let's try something else. 18 Let's try something that might work. Let's 19 agree that after 36 years of this experiment, 20 unfortunately, it did not do everything. 21 Because when you think of my neighborhood, 22 it's obvious it did not work. 23 So I appreciate this debate. I 24 think it was wonderful and healthy. But I

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 vote yes on reforming Rockefeller drug laws. 2 Thank you. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 4 Senator Serrano to be recorded in the 5 affirmative. 6 The Secretary will continue. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 9 Senator Seward, to explain his vote. 10 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, thank you, 11 Madam President. 12 I first of all want to say I agree 13 with Senator Schneiderman, we are moving in a 14 new direction this year. And that direction 15 is backwards. 16 It's bad enough that we have seen a 17 $132 billion state budget negotiated, 18 discussed in secret behind closed doors. 19 Three New York City Democrats presented us 20 with a budget that spends too much, taxes too 21 much, no reforms, that put our state in the 22 position that once this federal money dries 23 up, no property tax relief, no economic 24 development initiatives.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 That's bad enough. But it's quite 2 a tragedy when we see a piece of legislation 3 that so impacts the safety of our families, 4 our children, our communities, also discussed 5 only in secret, only in private except for 6 occasional news leaks, Senator Krueger. That 7 is a travesty. 8 Contrast that with the 2004 process 9 which reformed Rockefeller drug laws. That 10 was an open process. All the stakeholders had 11 their say. It was wide open -- the press, the 12 public. It reformed the Rockefeller drug laws 13 and did in fact put us on a new direction in 14 terms of drug laws and treating those who are 15 addicted by drugs. 16 I am of opinion that when the 17 district attorneys, the sheriffs, our law 18 enforcement and prosecutors on the front lines 19 of fighting drugs every day -- that raises a 20 red flag with me when they say this is a bad 21 bill, it's going to hurt our communities, it's 22 going to hurt our families. That's a red flag 23 which leads me to believe that this is a bad 24 bill.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 You know, this is in the public 2 protection legislation. I think that's a 3 very -- that's a misnomer. That's not the 4 place to put this bill. It is anything but 5 public protection. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 7 Senator Seward. 8 SENATOR SEWARD: Madam President, 9 I vote no. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 11 Senator Seward to be recorded in the negative. 12 The Secretary will continue. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 14 (Senator Skelos was recorded as 15 voting in the negative.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 17 (Senator Smith was recorded as 18 voting in the affirmative.) 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Squadron. 20 SENATOR SQUADRON: Madam 21 President, to explain my vote. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 23 Senator Squadron, to explain his vote. 24 SENATOR SQUADRON: Look, we have

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 a system in Albany that's not right, that 2 doesn't work. It didn't work in previous 3 years, it doesn't work this year, there's no 4 question. I think any claim that we used to 5 have some system that was great and suddenly 6 we have some system that's not doesn't pass 7 the smell test. And I think all of us deep 8 down know that. I think everyone -- both of 9 them -- watching at home still at this point 10 know that. 11 The fact is this bill this year is 12 the right thing to do. It is not based on the 13 illusion that drugs are a minor problem. This 14 bill is based on the knowledge -- on the 15 knowledge in my district, in the Lower East 16 Side of Manhattan, in the homes and the public 17 housing developments and the neighborhoods 18 across the City of New York and the State of 19 New York, that drugs are a horrendous scourge. 20 Those who victimize children and 21 others with drugs should be punished, should 22 be sent to prison, should not be on our 23 streets. Those who are victimized, those who 24 are addicts need to be treated.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 This bill is based on the knowledge 2 that what we've been doing since the 3 Rockefeller drug laws were first passed hasn't 4 worked. It hasn't. It didn't work in the 5 '80s, when crack came on and ruined 6 neighborhoods, and it's not working today. 7 We need to try something different 8 and better, something that gets this problem 9 at its source, punishes those who deserve 10 punishment, and treats those who need it. 11 That's what we're doing today. 12 In a very flawed process, I am very 13 proud to vote yes. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 15 Senator Squadron to be recorded in the 16 affirmative. 17 The Secretary will continue. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator 19 Stachowski. 20 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Aye. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 23 Senator Stavisky, to explain her vote. 24 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes, let me

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 also add my thanks to Senator Schneiderman for 2 his persuasive and compelling arguments. And 3 to Ruth Hassell-Thompson, who was here earlier 4 today, for her work. And to my colleague from 5 Queens, Jeff Aubry, Assemblyman Aubry, who has 6 been working toward these changes for many, 7 many years. And to the gentleman who starts 8 our session off on just the right tone, Father 9 Peter Young, for all of the work that he has 10 done over the years to help those who are less 11 fortunate than we are. 12 I vote aye. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 14 Senator Stavisky to be recorded in the 15 affirmative. 16 The Secretary will continue. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator 18 Stewart-Cousins. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 20 Aye. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Thompson. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 23 Senator Thompson, to explain his vote. 24 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes. You

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 know, I listened today. I'm very, very 2 concerned about it. And I just want to say 3 that if some of us were not in the chamber at 4 the time, a little guy like myself from the 5 east side of Buffalo never ran from a fight. 6 Some fights I may have lost, some fights I've 7 won. But I've never run from a fight. 8 This bill continues to reform the 9 laws that provided little success at reducing 10 inner-city crime in neighborhoods. But at the 11 same time throughout the years, the existing 12 Rockefeller drug laws have destroyed families 13 and communities. Many children growing up 14 without fathers, mothers, or without husbands. 15 And at the same time, taxpayers were left 16 holding the tab, because many of these 17 ex-offenders returned to prison within two 18 years. 19 The cost of imprisoning drug users 20 in New York State is out of control. These 21 precious funds could be used to fund substance 22 abuse programs and adult education and job 23 training programs as well. We ought to be 24 pushing for green jobs as opposed to prison

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 jobs that pay people 15 or 10 cents an hour. 2 We also need to focus on 3 prevention, intervention, education, 4 spirituality, and strong families. None of us 5 are for people getting out of jail who tote 6 AK-47s. I can tell you, as someone that came 7 from the Buffalo City Council, I fought with 8 gang leaders all the time, getting letters 9 sent to my home, writing, going to Erie County 10 Medical Center when people would get five or 11 10 shots in their face or in their bodies. 12 So many of us are not supporting 13 letting hardcore gun-toting individuals out of 14 jail. What we're talking about is individuals 15 that have a substance abuse problem that we 16 know the system has failed to be able to treat 17 these individuals. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 19 Senator Thompson, how do you vote? 20 SENATOR THOMPSON: I conclude by 21 saying I vote yes. I have started a number of 22 antiviolence programs. I fund a lot of 23 antiviolence programs. And I walk the streets 24 in hardcore neighborhoods. So I vote yes.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Thank you. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 3 Senator Thompson to be recorded in the 4 affirmative. 5 The Secretary will continue. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Valesky. 7 SENATOR VALESKY: Aye. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 10 Senator Volker, to explain his vote. 11 SENATOR VOLKER: Madam President, 12 I'm afraid I'm not going to do the political 13 thing that's been going on here. And this is 14 not the Rockefeller drug law. It absolutely 15 is not. I'm the only person here who was 16 there and helped to try to defeat the initial 17 Rockefeller drug laws and worked and voted on 18 the original drug laws. 19 The Rockefeller drug laws finished 20 in 2004. I realize it's good politics to say, 21 well, this is the Rockefeller drug laws and so 22 forth. 23 The problem is I hope and pray that 24 some of your districts don't get raped by the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 very drug dealers that are going to be helped 2 by this bill. What this bill does is allow 3 not people who are under drugs, but people who 4 sell drugs to get out of jail and get out on 5 the street. 6 Not one person in the Governor's 7 office, for the first time in my life, has 8 said a word to me about supporting a bill that 9 apparently is a Governor's bill. The only 10 people I've heard from is parole officers, who 11 tell me that this bill will cause a 1 to 161 12 ratio. In other words, they will be looking 13 over 161 people. 14 And that doesn't even deal with the 15 issue of sexual predators that we haven't even 16 dealt with. 17 Finally, one more thing. There's 18 nowhere near enough money in this bill for 19 treatment. You know that, Eric, as well I do. 20 Excuse me. Senator Schneiderman. My wife 21 corrected me, by the way. She said, "Don't 22 call him Eric, you should call him Senator 23 Schneiderman." And I do. She's right; she 24 watched before.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 But let me just say there's just 2 not enough money. And the problem with the 3 idea of treatment is that what's going to 4 happen here, you're going to have a lot of 5 people that are going to go out and they're 6 not going be able to be treated. So what's 7 going to happen then, I don't know. What will 8 probably happen is they'll go flying back to 9 jail -- 10 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 11 Senator Volker. 12 SENATOR VOLKER: -- either 13 locally or to the state. So it's going to 14 cost a ton of money. 15 I vote no. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 17 Senator Volker to be recorded in the negative. 18 The Secretary will continue. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Winner. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 21 Senator Winner, to explain his vote. 22 SENATOR WINNER: Thank you, Madam 23 President. 24 You know, I want to thank one of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 the previous Senators for verifying and 2 confirming one reason why this process is so 3 flawed and why we're doing this buried within 4 the public protection bill when this bill 5 should have been a stand-alone prospect. And 6 one of the Senators pointed out that there 7 were a lot of other things in this bill that 8 we're ostensibly voting against. And, you 9 know, certainly I can understand that. And 10 I'm certainly prepared to defend it. 11 But it certainly was a great 12 admission and a great demonstration of the 13 fact that this was a deliberate attempt to 14 hide this bill in this other public protection 15 package and sort of attempt to avoid 16 responsibility and accountability for your 17 vote -- one of the things that we were hopeful 18 that there was to be with the big reform 19 mantra that was being touted by this house, 20 both in its new committee on reform and also 21 in its pronouncements over the rules that we 22 were adopting and the new rules that we're 23 attempting to adopt. 24 So once again, you know, the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 hypocrisy reeks in this place when it comes to 2 any kind of real, true accountability and 3 putting forth what we really mean. And this 4 is once again an attempt to try to hide 5 responsibility. 6 You know, with respect to this bill 7 in and of itself, you know, sorry if I don't 8 trust you as much as I do trust the people who 9 are accountable for public safety. I trust 10 the district attorneys who have to stand for 11 election and have to be responsible day in and 12 day out to the public as to whether or not 13 there's safety in the streets. And I trust 14 the law enforcement people who are out there 15 putting their lives on the line every single 16 day to protect us and keep us safe, for 17 they're the ones that have come to me. Nobody 18 else has come to me with regard to this bill. 19 But those people who are entrusted 20 with the duty of public protection and public 21 safety have said, This is madness, don't do 22 this. This will return us to the days of 23 unsafe streets, harm our children, harm our 24 communities and harm our families.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 I vote no. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 3 Senator Winner to be recorded in the negative. 4 The Secretary will continue. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Young. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 7 Senator Young, to explain her vote. 8 SENATOR YOUNG: Thank you, Madam 9 President. 10 Our Comptroller, Tom DiNapoli, said 11 that this budget is dangerous. He's right. 12 It's dangerous to our taxpayers, it's 13 dangerous to our economy, and it's dangerous 14 to our safety. Because no community in 15 New York State is safe from drug dealers. 16 When my children were in elementary 17 school, they went to school with a little boy 18 named James. His father lived two blocks from 19 my house. One night, James' father was hacked 20 to death with a butcher knife. A drug dealer 21 ordered the hit. And James' life was never 22 the same again. 23 For you to say, Oh, this is just 24 for people who need treatment, that's not

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 true. This is to allow drug dealers to say, I 2 don't want to go to jail. I'd rather go to 3 treatment. No matter how many times I'm 4 caught, I can repeat this behavior over and 5 over and over again. 6 You will have victims like James in 7 your communities, in your neighborhoods, 8 because of this vote. And when that happens, 9 and when you look into the eyes of those 10 victims, I hope you remember this moment when 11 you changed the laws in New York State and 12 changed their lives. 13 I vote no. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 15 Senator Young to be recorded in the negative. 16 Announce the results. 17 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 32. Nays, 18 30. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 20 The bill is passed. 21 (Applause.) 22 ACTING PRESIDENT STEWART-COUSINS: 23 Senator Klein. 24 SENATOR KLEIN: Madam President,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 still on the controversial calendar, can we 2 take up Calendar Number 130. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 4 Secretary will read Calendar 130. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 130, substituted April 1, Assembly Budget 7 Bill, Assembly Print Number 150C, an act 8 making appropriations for the support of 9 government: Public Protection and General 10 Government Budget. 11 SENATOR LIBOUS: Explanation, 12 please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Kruger, an explanation has been 15 requested by Senator Libous. 16 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you, 17 Mr. President. 18 For the purposes of explanation, 19 Senator Schneiderman. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Schneiderman. 22 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 23 Chairman Kruger. 24 Mr. President, this is the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 appropriation bill for public protection and 2 general government. It is the companion bill 3 to the bill we just debated at length, and 4 everything that I said at the beginning of the 5 debate over the last bill is true about this 6 bill. 7 This appropriates $5.623 billion 8 for public protection. It does include 9 $40 million, slightly more than $40 million 10 from the federal stimulus package. And it 11 does provide the funding for and requires the 12 same measures as discussed in connection with 13 the Article VII bill. 14 Among other things, this bill does 15 provide for the closing of three prison camp 16 facilities and some annexes, for a savings of 17 $12.8 million and $9.2 million respectively. 18 It does provide for a reduction in funding for 19 local jails, probation and parole treatment, 20 something that my colleagues and I regret, but 21 it's a sign of the hard fiscal times we're in. 22 It does provide $3 million for 23 civil and criminal legal services, $4 million 24 for the innovative anti-gang-and-gun program,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Operation S.N.U.G. It provides for domestic 2 violence programs and for an experimental 3 program to use pistol cameras that was 4 pioneered by Senator Eric Adams. 5 And finally, it does provide 6 $1.5 million to increase and expand the 7 District Attorney Tuition Loan Reimbursement 8 Program so that program, for the first time, 9 is open to assistant district attorneys but 10 also to those who provide legal services for 11 indigent defendants. 12 That is the overview summary. We 13 really covered everything that this bill 14 covers in the last six-hour debate over its 15 companion bill. I hope that's sufficient, 16 Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 18 you, Senator Schneiderman. 19 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Volker. 22 SENATOR VOLKER: Senator 23 Schneiderman, could I ask you a question, 24 please?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Schneiderman, do you yield? 3 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: For 4 Senator -- for Dale, always. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 6 Senator yields. 7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Excuse me, 8 for Senator Volker. 9 SENATOR VOLKER: Is the cut in 10 DNA testing in this bill? 11 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: No. 12 Through you, Mr. President, no. 13 SENATOR VOLKER: The cut in DNA 14 testing is not in this bill? 15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: No. No. 16 SENATOR VOLKER: Where is it, if 17 I might ask? 18 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I'm not 19 aware of a cut in DNA testing. 20 SENATOR VOLKER: Well, there is a 21 cut in DNA testing. In fact, it's within the 22 book here that, you know, was given to us, the 23 plan. 24 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 you, Mr. President, perhaps the Senator is 2 referring to -- there's a reduction in funding 3 for crime labs. 4 SENATOR VOLKER: Okay. That 5 is -- yes. Yes. 6 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, that 7 is in this bill. 8 SENATOR VOLKER: That's in this 9 bill? 10 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. 11 SENATOR VOLKER: Okay. Thank 12 you. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 14 you, Senator Volker. 15 Senator DeFrancisco. 16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. Could 17 I ask Senator Kruger a couple of questions? 18 The chairman of Finance. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 20 Senator Kruger, do you yield to Senator 21 DeFrancisco? 22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 24 Kruger, on page 69 of this bill there's some

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 programs -- and I know we didn't have enough 2 money to keep a prison open, or three prisons 3 open in Republican districts. And I'm just 4 trying to figure out what these programs are. 5 Line 19, the Sanctuary for 6 Families. Can you tell me what that program 7 is and who it benefits? 8 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 9 you, Mr. President, it's a domestic violence 10 program. 11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: And where 12 is that located? 13 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 14 you, Mr. President, I'm told it serves all of 15 New York City. 16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Okay. 17 Would he yield for another question, please? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I 21 will, Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 23 Senator yields. 24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: And can you

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 provide me the part of the budget where 2 there's a similar program in Central New York? 3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 4 you, Mr. President, I assume -- have you gone 5 through the budget, Senator? 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I'm asking 7 you if there's a corresponding program for 8 domestic violence in upstate New York. 9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Well, 10 through you, Mr. President, there are monies 11 in for various legal programs throughout the 12 budget. And I assume, if you study it, you'll 13 find them. 14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 15 Senator Kruger yield to another question? 16 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I 17 will. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 19 Senator yields. 20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: On the same 21 page, on line 15, there's a program My 22 Sister's Place. Is that located in New York 23 City as well? 24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: I guess --

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 through you, Mr. President, the chorus tells 2 me Hudson River, Putnam County, obviously 3 north of New York City, if my geography serves 4 me well. 5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: South of 6 Central New York? 7 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: North of 8 the Bronx. 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Okay. 10 There's also -- on the next page, page 70, 11 line 36, there's also a program that is 12 Sanctuary for Families, $250,000. What 13 families are we providing sanctuary for? 14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 15 you, Mr. President. Not to sound facetious, I 16 imagine those that need it. But the same 17 domestic violence programs. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: And is that 19 Senate in the City of New York? 20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: New York, 21 Long Island. By the way, these are not -- 22 through you, Mr. President, if you'll notice 23 throughout the budget these are not broken 24 down by geographical boundaries.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: And would 2 Senator Kruger yield to another question? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Kruger, do you yield? 5 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I 6 will. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 8 Senator yields. 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 10 Kruger, were these items lined out by the 11 Assembly in the budget? 12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 13 you, Mr. President, yes, they were. 14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 15 Senator Kruger continue to yield? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator, do you yield? 18 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: My 19 pleasure. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 21 Senator yields. 22 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 23 Kruger, are there similar programs lined out 24 by the Senate in this budget?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 2 you, Mr. President, lumped and subject to a 3 future appropriation. 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 5 Senator Kruger continue to yield? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 7 Senator Kruger, do you yield? 8 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 10 Senator yields. 11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 12 Kruger, can you tell me how much the lump is? 13 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 14 you, Mr. President, $609,000 for domestic 15 violence and approximately $1.4 million -- I 16 take that back, $4.4 million through the 17 Secretary of State, to be divided. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 19 Senator Kruger continue to yield? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Kruger, do you yield? 22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 24 Senator yields.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 2 Kruger, isn't there a lump of about 3 $85 million of undefined, unspecified projects 4 to be designated later? 5 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 6 you, Mr. President, I don't understand the 7 question. 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, 9 are -- would Senator Kruger continue to yield? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 11 Senator Kruger, do you continue to yield? 12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 14 Senator yields. 15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 16 Kruger, what's affectionately been known as 17 member items, it's my understanding from what 18 I've been told about the budget that there's 19 $85 million of member items for the Senate 20 that is just one big lump in the budget to be 21 designated later. Is that correct? 22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 23 you, Mr. President. Yes, we're following the 24 same procedures that was done in previous

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 budgets, Senator. 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 3 Senator Kruger yield to another question? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 5 Senator Kruger, do you yield? 6 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I 7 would. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 9 Senator yields. 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Are you 11 referring to budgets about four or five years 12 ago before we lined out member items in the 13 last several budgets that we had in this 14 chamber? 15 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 16 you, Mr. President, I'm confused as to your 17 question, Senator. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, let 19 me ask another question, Senator Kruger, if 20 you would take one. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Senator Kruger? 23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Now,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Kruger, by voting for this bill today, 2 if we vote for this bill today, are you saying 3 that we would be voting for $85 million of 4 unspecified programs to be named by the 5 Majority in this house at a later date? 6 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 7 you, Mr. President, if I can rephrase in my 8 mind your question, Senator. 9 So what you're saying is that by 10 voting against this budget today you are 11 rejecting that lump sum; is that correct? 12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 13 DeFrancisco, that wasn't my question. If I 14 could ask the question again. I thought it 15 was clear. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator Kruger, do you yield to a 18 clarification from Senator DeFrancisco? 19 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes. Yes, 20 Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 22 Senator yields. 23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: My simple 24 question is if I voted for this budget today,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 this bill today, I would be voting for 2 $85 million of projects to be named later? 3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 4 you, Mr. President. And by voting against the 5 budget today, you're voting against those 6 projects, the $85 million worth of projects. 7 Am I correct? 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, 9 however you want to phrase it, the fact of the 10 matter is we are supposed to take at blind 11 faith, without lining these items out, that 12 these items will be good for the State of 13 New York. And by either voting for it and 14 having that happen or voting against it is 15 irrelevant. The point is if this bill passed 16 today, we would be voting for something and 17 leaving it up to the 32 Majority members what 18 might be in that pot of money at a later date. 19 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 20 you, Mr. President. Senator, the pot that 21 you're talking about of member items would be 22 lined out also if the Minority would have 23 given us their designation of their items as 24 well.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 2 Senator Kruger yield to a question? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Kruger, do you yield? 5 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 7 Senator yields. 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 9 Kruger, what role did the Minority have in 10 creating this document? 11 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 12 you, Mr. President, what document? 13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: The bill 14 that we're voting on today, that's before us 15 today. 16 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 17 you, Mr. President. What role? By, I would 18 assume, reviewing it and voting on it. 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: And you 20 mean reviewing it since Saturday? I have -- I 21 promised that would have been the last 22 question. I'll withdraw that question. 23 And I have no further questions. 24 Thank you, Senator Kruger.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 2 you, Senator DeFrancisco. 3 Senator Libous. 4 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 5 would you call the roll, please? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 7 Secretary will ring the bells, please. 8 I ask all Senators to proceed to 9 the chamber so that we may proceed with the 10 roll call. 11 Senator Libous. 12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 13 are we going to call the roll, please? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: We are 15 going to call the roll. First we have to have 16 the Secretary read the last section. 17 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, 18 Mr. President. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 22 Secretary will call the roll slowly. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Adams. 24 SENATOR ADAMS: Yes.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Addabbo. 2 SENATOR ADDABBO: Yes. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Alesi. 4 SENATOR ALESI: No. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator 6 Aubertine. 7 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bonacic. 9 SENATOR BONACIC: No. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Breslin. 11 SENATOR BRESLIN: Yes. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator 13 DeFrancisco. 14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Diaz. 16 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Dilan. 18 SENATOR DILAN: Yes. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Duane. 20 SENATOR DUANE: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 22 SENATOR ESPADA: Yes. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 24 SENATOR FARLEY: No.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Flanagan. 2 SENATOR FLANAGAN: No. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Foley. 4 SENATOR FOLEY: Aye. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator 6 Fuschillo. 7 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: No. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Golden. 9 SENATOR GOLDEN: No. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Griffo. 11 SENATOR GRIFFO: No. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon. 13 SENATOR HANNON: No. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator 15 Hassell-Thompson voting in the affirmative 16 earlier today. 17 Senator Huntley. 18 SENATOR HUNTLEY: Yes. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator C. 20 Johnson. 21 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Yes. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator O. 23 Johnson. 24 SENATOR OWEN JOHNSON: No.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Klein. 2 SENATOR KLEIN: Yes. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator L. 4 Krueger. 5 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator C. 7 Kruger. 8 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lanza. 10 SENATOR LANZA: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 12 SENATOR LARKIN: No. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle. 14 SENATOR LaVALLE: No. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell. 16 SENATOR LEIBELL: No. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous. 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: No. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Little. 20 SENATOR LITTLE: No. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator 22 Marcellino. 23 SENATOR MARCELLINO: No. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR MAZIARZ: No. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator McDonald. 3 SENATOR McDONALD: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator 5 Monserrate. 6 SENATOR MONSERRATE: Aye. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator 8 Montgomery. 9 (No response.) 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Morahan. 11 SENATOR MORAHAN: No. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nozzolio. 13 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: No. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Onorato. 15 SENATOR ONORATO: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Oppenheimer. 18 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Aye. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 20 SENATOR PADAVAN: No. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Parker. 22 SENATOR PARKER: Aye. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Perkins. 24 SENATOR PERKINS: Aye.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator 2 Ranzenhofer. 3 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Robach. 5 SENATOR ROBACH: No. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 7 SENATOR SALAND: No. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sampson. 9 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Savino. 11 SENATOR SAVINO: Yes. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator 13 Schneiderman. 14 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Serrano. 16 SENATOR SERRANO: Yes. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 18 SENATOR SEWARD: No. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 20 SENATOR SKELOS: No. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 22 (Senator Smith recorded as voting 23 in the affirmative.) 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Squadron.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator 3 Stachowski. 4 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky. 6 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator 8 Stewart-Cousins. 9 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: Yes. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Thompson. 11 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Valesky. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Aye. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker. 15 SENATOR VOLKER: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Winner. 17 SENATOR WINNER: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Young. 19 SENATOR YOUNG: No. 20 (Pause.) 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 22 Secretary will call the absentee. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator 24 Montgomery.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 Secretary will announce the results. 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 32. Nays, 5 30. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 7 bill is passed. 8 Senator Klein. 9 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 10 can we adjourn till tomorrow, April -- I'm 11 sorry. Would you recognize Senator Libous, 12 for an announcement. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Libous. 15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, 16 Senator Klein. Thank you, Mr. President. 17 An immediate Republican conference 18 in 315 right at the end of session. It will 19 be brief. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Immediate Republican conference in Room 315 in 22 the Capitol. 23 Senator Klein. 24 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, I

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910 1 move we adjourn until tomorrow and finish the 2 rest of the active list. And we will adjourn 3 till tomorrow at 8:00 a.m. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: There 5 being no further business to come before the 6 Senate, on motion by Senator Klein, the Senate 7 stands adjourned until Friday, April 3rd, at 8 8:00 a.m. 9 (Whereupon, at 10:46 p.m., the 10 Senate adjourned.) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.

(518) 371-8910