Friday, April 3, 2009

1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE 2 3 4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 April 3, 2009 11 8:48 a.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR DAVID J. VALESKY, Acting President 19 ANGELO J. APONTE, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24

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(518) 371-8910 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 Senate will please come to order. 4 I ask everyone present to please 5 rise and recite with me the Pledge of 6 Allegiance. 7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: In the 10 absence of clergy, may we bow our heads in a 11 moment of silence. 12 (Whereupon, the assemblage 13 respected a moment of silence.) 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 15 reading of the Journal. 16 The Secretary will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 18 Thursday, April 2, the Senate met pursuant to 19 adjournment. The Journal of Wednesday, 20 April 1, was read and approved. On motion, 21 Senate adjourned. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Without objection, the Journal stands approved 24 as read.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Presentation of petitions. 2 Messages from the Assembly. 3 Messages from the Governor. 4 Reports of standing committees. 5 Reports of select committees. 6 Communications and reports from 7 state officers. 8 Motions and resolutions. 9 Senator Klein. 10 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 11 before we start today, I have an announcement. 12 We're going to celebrate today the birthday of 13 someone who's very, very special to us, 14 Vice President Pro Tem David Valesky. 15 (Applause.) 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 17 you, everybody. 18 SENATOR KLEIN: I'm sure, Senator 19 Valesky, I can think of no better place. 20 (Laughter.) 21 SENATOR KLEIN: At this time, 22 Mr. President, can we take up a controversial 23 reading of Calendar Number 136. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The

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(518) 371-8910 1 Secretary will ring the bells. 2 I ask all Senators to proceed 3 directly and immediately to the chamber so 4 that we can begin debate on Calendar Number 5 136, which the Secretary will read. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 136, substituted April 1, Assembly Budget 8 Bill, Assembly Print Number 157B, an act to 9 amend the Education Law. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read 11 the last section. 12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 13 is there a quorum in the house? 14 (Pause.) 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 16 Senator Libous, in answer to your question, 17 there is a quorum that is now present. 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 19 could we have a quorum call, please. 20 Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Senator Libous. 23 SENATOR LIBOUS: I will withdraw 24 that quorum call, and I think we can get

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(518) 371-8910 1 started in about two minutes. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 quorum call has been withdrawn. 4 Senator Libous. 5 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 6 could I have an explanation, please, on the 7 bill. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 9 Senator Kruger, an explanation has been 10 requested of Calendar 136 by Senator Libous. 11 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, 12 Mr. President. This is the revenue bill, 13 Calendar Number 136. And the explanation will 14 start with Senator Liz Krueger. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 16 Senator Liz Krueger, for an explanation. 17 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 18 As Senator Carl Kruger mentioned, 19 this is the ELFA bill, which has a series of 20 parts to it. The first series of sections 21 involves the education budget. The following 22 sections D through L are the higher ed 23 sections of the budget. 24 And then Sections M through Z

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(518) 371-8910 1 include tax issues, pass-throughs and 2 Social Security income, some changes in 3 unemployment law. Then we continue to human 4 rights, a section of building licensing and 5 boiler inspection and asbestos licensing. We 6 then continue to a section on enforcement in 7 pyrotechnics. We follow that by some changes 8 in the law for crane operator safety and some 9 additional civil penalties as such. And then 10 we follow up with some slight changes to 11 higher ed rules as well as the Private Housing 12 Finance Law. 13 It's a very complex and detailed 14 bill, and I'm sure we'll be discussing section 15 by section the legislation as we move forward. 16 Thank you, Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 18 you, Senator Liz Krueger. 19 Senator Libous. 20 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 21 believe there's a number of amendments at the 22 desk; eight, to be exact. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: There 24 are.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR LIBOUS: We would like to 2 start with the first amendment, waive its 3 reading, and then I would ask you to call on 4 Senator DeFrancisco and then Senator 5 Fuschillo, please. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 7 Senator DeFrancisco, your amendment is here at 8 the desk. Without objection, the reading is 9 waived, and you are recognized to speak on the 10 amendment. 11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Thank you 12 very much. 13 This amendment calls for the 14 elimination of the increase in personal income 15 tax that was originally called the 16 millionaire's tax, but in the course of the 17 closed-door meetings it came down to a 18 200,000-aire tax. 19 Basically, it reaches many people 20 that at least the initial marketing of the 21 bill would never have reached. It was 22 originally marketed as people with incomes 23 over a million, then it was marketed as people 24 with incomes over $500,000, then it turned out

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(518) 371-8910 1 to be individuals with income over $200,000. 2 It's a very dangerous bill. We 3 have the federal government, the new change in 4 government that many in this chamber have been 5 praising, the new direction which tries to put 6 money in people's pockets to stimulate the 7 economy. Well, the $7 a week increased money 8 that you have from the payroll tax reduction 9 is more than eaten up by many of the taxes 10 that we see here. 11 In addition to the personal income 12 tax, there are a series of other taxes that 13 I'll get into in a moment. And what this 14 amendment basically does is eliminate those 15 revenue sources from this budget, mainly 16 because these taxes are going to stifle the 17 economy and make certain that the recovery is 18 going to lag other states, which would really 19 be a shame. 20 With respect to the personal income 21 tax, we're talking about $200,000 starts you 22 off in the new category of pay more personal 23 income tax. And many suggest that this tax is 24 a small tax, that it only increases the amount

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(518) 371-8910 1 to individuals by a slight amount and they 2 could afford it anyway. 3 Well, it's a 15 percent increase in 4 tax rate for those individuals earning 5 $200,000 or more or couples, married couples 6 earning $300,000 combined or more. And that 7 affects a lot of people in this state. The 8 numbers that we've got, it's hundreds of 9 thousands of people will be paying more tax. 10 If you happen to be a very 11 successful individual and earn more than a 12 million dollars a year, then your highest tax 13 bracket goes up 31 percent. 14 We've had estimates -- and we 15 didn't request these, but the Empire Center 16 for New York State Policy estimates that this 17 tax is going to cause us to lose 15,500 jobs. 18 Now, what's a shame about this is 19 that this is a year when we're getting 20 millions and millions of dollars -- actually, 21 billions and billions of dollars of stimulus 22 money from the federal government. If we 23 can't put our house in order this year and 24 next year without increasing taxes and risking

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(518) 371-8910 1 loss of jobs, then there's no other year we're 2 ever going to be able to do it. 3 With respect to the other taxes, 4 there's a whole list of taxes that all of you 5 are well aware of. And some of the other 6 speakers will talk about some of the most 7 onerous ones. But one, for example, is the 8 beer tax that, you know -- I imagine many 9 people think it's not good to drink beer, but 10 the fact of the matter is we have a Budweiser 11 plant in my district, and that company had a 12 rally indicating that if this beer tax was 13 increased, then an expansion that they were 14 considering -- think of that, an expansion in 15 this day and age -- they were thinking of, 16 they would not be able to do it. And coupled 17 with some of these other taxes, the utility 18 tax, it will put them in the last category, 19 the most expensive of all plants to operate in 20 the State of New York. 21 So when that company starts 22 thinking where we're going to stay and where 23 we're going to downsize when the economy goes 24 south, it looks pretty good that not only is

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(518) 371-8910 1 the expansion not going to happen, but we may 2 be the first one to close. 3 And this is not something that we 4 learn later or after the fact. They warned us 5 of this before this onerous tax, all these 6 onerous taxes went in. Auto rental tax, 7 highway use tax, increase in the wine tax, the 8 tax on transportation-related activities. And 9 it goes on and on and on and on. 10 If we want to stifle growth and we 11 want to have less stimulus, then this is the 12 way to do it. So I would urge all of the 13 people -- everyone on this -- 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Excuse 15 me, Senator DeFrancisco. 16 There seems to be a lot of chatter 17 here this morning. If we could return to how 18 we've been conducting ourselves the last few 19 days, any conversations that need to take 20 place, I'd ask that they take place outside of 21 the chamber so that we can hear those who are 22 speaking on amendments and bills. 23 Please continue, Senator 24 DeFrancisco.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Thank you, 2 Senator. 3 We are calling on the Democrat 4 Majority, or at least one or two of them -- 5 just like the Democrats who represent upstate 6 in the Assembly voted against this portion of 7 the budget -- it really is important for our 8 people in the State of New York that we don't 9 cause more harm. And rather than having a 10 stimu-less -- L-E-S-S -- package for our 11 budget, we should try to stimulate the economy 12 and make certain that we have the funds 13 necessary available to people so they can 14 purchase goods on the market and be in a 15 position to help stimulate this economy. 16 I'm looking for a list here of 17 items, because no doubt -- we have been asked 18 in the press -- not directly, but in the 19 press -- how we're going to pay for this. 20 Well, we had given you that information way 21 back when when we presented our budget 22 alternative that was provided by my letter to 23 Senator Kruger, but well before that when we 24 made our suggestion early on in the budget

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(518) 371-8910 1 process. 2 One of the areas is cut a certain 3 percentage -- we've got 1 percent, you could 4 do more -- from agency contracts. And quite 5 frankly, that's what CSEA is looking for, is 6 basically to not outsource as much. They've 7 got talent within the State of New York to do 8 some of these things. So cut down on these 9 independent contracts that we have, and we 10 certainly can cut 1 or 2 percent, which would 11 generate a substantial amount of money because 12 there's more than $136 billion in agency 13 contracts, and probably more. 14 Consolidation of state agencies. 15 The Governor talked about how we've got to 16 streamline government in his budget 17 presentation. And we've got a whole list of 18 agency consolidations that were made public 19 when we presented our budget. 20 That seems more prudent. It will 21 be a better way to balance the budget, in that 22 it's a true structural change and will be 23 recurring, less money that we have to spend on 24 government. So that when the stimulus money

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(518) 371-8910 1 runs out, we'll be in a position to actually 2 pay for government. 3 And this is the type of action that 4 really I think what the Comptroller, the 5 Democrat Comptroller DiNapoli, called for, a 6 budget that actually has recurring savings as 7 time goes on, not postpone the inevitable. 8 And the inevitable would be just waiting to 9 make these additional cuts somewhere two years 10 down the road when the largesse from the 11 federal government -- or, put another way, 12 when the money from the other pocket of the 13 taxpayer runs out, we will have to go back 14 into that state pocket even more and more 15 unless we do these types of things. 16 We had several others that I could 17 go into more details, but other speakers want 18 to speak. But we do have alternatives. We 19 can pay for it. We should pay for it in this 20 manner. And it's a recurring savings. 21 So I would urge all of the Democrat 22 majority members to join us and join the 23 upstate members of the Democrat majority of 24 the Assembly in voting for our amendment so

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(518) 371-8910 1 that you would ultimately be voting against 2 these onerous new taxes. 3 Thank you. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 5 you, Senator DeFrancisco. 6 Senator Fuschillo, on the 7 amendment. 8 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you 9 very much, Mr. President. On the amendment. 10 Yesterday it was reported by the 11 Associated Press that the Labor Department 12 today is slated to release a report expected 13 to show that a net total of 654,000 jobs were 14 lost last month. If the economists are right, 15 it would mark a record four straight months 16 that job losses topped 600,000. That's more 17 than the population of Baltimore. Economists 18 say the job market may not get back to normal 19 until 2013. 20 And now the Governor wants to raise 21 the personal income tax. Property taxes are 22 increasing everywhere, unemployment is at a 23 record high, more than 140,000 jobs lost just 24 since last August. Taxes and fees in this

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(518) 371-8910 1 budget are killers. 2 Residents throughout this state and 3 small businesses are asking for help. I stand 4 corrected; they're pleading for help. Tax 5 increases will just create more vacant stores 6 in our downtowns and more residents just to 7 leave the state and go across the border to 8 Connecticut, that has a 5 percent maximum 9 rate. 10 Asked after the event of how the 11 stimulus money should be used in the state 12 budget, our United States Senator, the senior 13 one, Senator Schumer, said: "The first job is 14 twofold. One, prevent tax increases. We 15 cannot afford, at a time of recession, to have 16 a large tax increase. Second, to use it to 17 prevent mass layoffs. You can't have 18 teachers, firefighters, cops laid off in a 19 time of recession. It should be used to 20 mitigate the dangers we face from increases 21 and the large kind of layoffs which the state 22 government would have to do on its own without 23 the stimulus money." 24 My county executive, Tom Suozzi,

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(518) 371-8910 1 said if they do an income tax increase and 2 don't do a property tax cap or property tax 3 relief, property taxpayers should revolt. 4 The Wall Street Journal stated that 5 capital gains and Wall Street wages, which 6 accounted for half of the 2003 to 2007 growth 7 in New York State aggregate income, are 8 projected to decline by $100 billion from '07 9 to '09. 10 When you look upon how we compare 11 to other states, tax analysis and the facts 12 and figures, it's going to take this year 13 until May 5th, which is our Tax Freedom Day, 14 and it shows how long New Yorkers must work 15 till they can pay all their taxes -- federal, 16 state, local, everything. We're third in the 17 nation, or only third by two days. 18 When you look at our state business 19 tax climate, we would hope we would be number 20 one. We're at the bottom of the barrel. 21 We're 49th. And probably, after this, we'll 22 be 50th. 23 Individual income tax index, we'd 24 like to be number one, which shows the most

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(518) 371-8910 1 favorable climate in the nation. We're 43rd. 2 Sales tax index of collection, we'd 3 like to be number one. It would show the 4 least amount that we would collect. We're 5 49th. 6 Property tax index -- number one is 7 the best -- we're 45th. 8 State individual income tax 9 collection, 50th is the best -- it means they 10 collect the least -- we're number two in the 11 nation. 12 State corporate income tax, 50th is 13 the best, we're number eight in the nation. 14 State gas tax collection rate, we 15 have the distinction of being the worst, the 16 number one in the nation. 17 State and local tax burden -- 1 is 18 bad, 50 is good -- we're number two. State 19 and local income tax collection, we have the 20 distinction of being the worst. We're the 21 highest, we're number one. 22 Corporate tax collection, we're 23 number two. 24 State and local spending, 50 is

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(518) 371-8910 1 supposed to be really good, at the bottom of 2 the barrel; it means you spend the least. 3 We're number two. After this budget, we'll 4 probably be number one. 5 The personal income tax -- and you 6 heard my colleague Senator DeFrancisco talk 7 about it -- it's been analyzed by the Empire 8 Center that we're going to lose, right off the 9 bat, 15,000 jobs. It's going to be more than 10 that. Because you're raising the tax and 11 fees, cutting school aid to certain regions, 12 taking away the STAR rebate. Just on Long 13 Island, we're losing $370 million that people 14 expected to have. 15 And the economy is tanking. And I 16 look on the federal level, what our President 17 is doing, and I saw a commercial the other day 18 that Ford is saying if you lose your job, we 19 have the money to pay for your car for seven 20 months; don't give it back to us. 21 That's taxpayers' dollars. That's 22 the President saying, I'm going to try to keep 23 this economy alive, I'm going to try to keep 24 this economy alive and keep people working.

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(518) 371-8910 1 If the car industry goes down, they estimated 2 1 million to 2 million jobs are gone. 3 That's why they're pumping all this 4 money in. They're pumping it in to save jobs, 5 to keep people in their houses, with the 6 mortgage tax -- the foreclosures are at record 7 amounts. And they're trying to keep people in 8 their homes, in their jobs. And in New York 9 State, the opposite is happening. 10 You're raising taxes, Governor 11 Paterson, at the worst possible time in the 12 history of the State of New York. And you're 13 telling people with a subliminal message 14 that's going to be quite apparent to them 15 shortly: You're going to have to leave, 16 because we're raising your personal income tax 17 rate. 18 Senator DeFrancisco said it best. 19 It's not a millionaire tax, it's a tax that 20 hits S corporations, small businesses that pay 21 the personal income taxing that are starving, 22 that haven't taken salaries -- not in a week, 23 six weeks. I'm meeting with my chambers, they 24 haven't taken salaries, the small businesses,

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(518) 371-8910 1 in months. And this is going to kill them 2 even further. 3 I urge the approval of this 4 amendment for every citizen who works hard in 5 New York State, who wants to stay and live 6 here with their family. 7 Thank you very much, Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 9 you, Senator Fuschillo. 10 The question is on the nonsponsor 11 motion to amend Calendar Number 136. All in 12 favor of the amendment please signify by 13 raising your hand. 14 The Secretary will announce the 15 results. 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 30. Nays, 17 30. 18 Excused for the day, Senator 19 Hassell-Thompson. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 21 motion fails. 22 Senator Libous. 23 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 24 there's another amendment at the desk, by

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Ranzenhofer and Senator Marcellino. I 2 would ask that you waive its reading and 3 please call on Senator Marcellino first. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: There 5 is an amendment at the desk. 6 Without objection, the reading is 7 waived and Senator Marcellino may be heard on 8 the amendment. 9 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you, 10 Mr. President. 11 The other night on Channel 9, 12 Senator Smith, the Majority Leader, was 13 talking about the taking away of people's STAR 14 rebate checks. His comment was most of the 15 people don't even realize they were getting 16 that money, it was such a small amount. 17 Well, the people in my district and 18 districts around this state know how much 19 money they're getting. We're already getting 20 calls: Where are our STAR rebates? Why are 21 you taking them away? 22 At a time when property taxes are 23 going up -- and New Yorkers are already paying 24 the highest property taxes in the nation --

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(518) 371-8910 1 this budget will make matters dramatically 2 worse, placing an enormous new burden on 3 middle-class taxpayers and homeowners who are 4 already struggling to make ends meet. 5 In Nassau County which I represent, 6 along with Senator Skelos and Senator 7 Fuschillo and Senator Johnson -- and Senator 8 Hannon, can't forget Senator Hannon -- the 9 STAR rebate check would be approximately $685 10 to each homeowner. 11 Suffolk County, which I also 12 represent part of, along with Senator LaValle, 13 Senator Owen Johnson, Senator Flanagan -- 14 Senator Morahan is trying to move into Suffolk 15 County -- and Senator Foley, and I think I did 16 say Senator LaValle before -- and partly 17 Senator Fuschillo also -- the average check 18 will be $667. 19 Westchester County, $1276, Senator 20 Stewart-Cousins. I think Senator Leibell may 21 have a piece of that as well. 22 In Jefferson County, $282. Erie 23 County, Senator Stachowski, $369 average 24 check. Onondaga, Senator Valesky, $488.

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(518) 371-8910 1 St. Lawrence, Senator Aubertine, $422. I 2 could go on. 3 These are not insubstantial amounts 4 of money that are being taken away from our 5 citizens. 6 The Empire Center's web-based 7 Spend-O-Meter predicts that this state's 8 $131.8 billion budget, all funds included, 9 would spend $4179 per second, $250,000 per 10 minute, $15 million per hour, $361 million per 11 day, $2.5 billion per week, and $11 billion 12 per month. 13 Under this year's budget, our state 14 government will spend more every hour than 15 more than 200 typical New York families earn 16 in a year. And we're going to take property 17 tax STAR rebate checks away from them. 18 That total amount on Long Island is 19 $368 million. In the Hudson Valley, 20 $305 million. In New York City, which 21 includes the personal income tax credit, which 22 would also be reduced, it's $187 million. 23 Central New York, $177 million. Western 24 New York, $141 million. In the Capital Region

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(518) 371-8910 1 and the North Country, $140 million. And in 2 Rochester, $130 million. And we're going to 3 take the STAR rebate checks away from 4 homeowners who need it. 5 This is wrong, Mr. President. This 6 has got to change. We need to give money back 7 to the hardworking taxpayers of this state. 8 The rebate checks do that. 9 Some have put press releases out -- 10 I believe I read one from Senator Aubertine 11 and yourself, Mr. President -- saying that how 12 the Republicans are adding all this money on 13 top and they're not going anything to show us 14 how to pay for the bill. 15 Well, maybe you missed it, but we 16 put a plan out weeks ago. Weeks ago, sir. 17 Perhaps you should read it. Or maybe use a 18 calculator when you read it next time. 19 Because we show you how to pay for this bill. 20 We show you how to take $3.2 billion -- I 21 won't itemize them, in the interest of time -- 22 but $3.2 billion in savings that would help 23 pay for everything we are restoring to this 24 budget.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Property taxpayers are facing a 2 heavy burden. Senator Aubertine, in your 3 district I'm sure they're facing the same 4 burden proportionately as they are in mine. 5 And I want them to have this STAR rebate 6 check; I think you do too. I'm asking you to 7 come with us, vote with us, vote with us and 8 restore this check. It's important to our 9 people, it's important to the property 10 taxpayers of our state. 11 Mr. President, this is a good 12 amendment. I know none of them have ever 13 passed in the history of this state, so 14 perhaps we should make history today and pass 15 this one. It's a no-brainer. It's a 16 no-brainer, restore the rebate checks to our 17 constituents, to our public. They need it, 18 they're demanding relief. This budget spends 19 too much. This secret budget spends too much, 20 and we don't give enough back to our 21 taxpayers. 22 Thank you, Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 24 you, Senator Marcellino.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Ranzenhofer, on the 2 amendment. 3 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Thank you, 4 Mr. President. 5 This truly could be an historic day 6 if we did provide some property tax relief for 7 homeowners. One of the comments, as Senator 8 Marcellino mentioned, is that in New York City 9 the STAR rebate check is not as large as 10 upstate, Western New York and on Long Island. 11 In New York City, it's $148. And what I'm 12 asking is for some of the other upstate and 13 Long Island Senators to stand together and 14 unite on something that's important for the 15 rest of the state. 16 Because when Senator Smith said 17 it's not important for New York City, that's a 18 New York City point of view. But it's not a 19 point of view that's reflected in the rest of 20 the state. Mr. President, there are 21 3.9 million residences in this state, of which 22 3.3 million of them are eligible to receive 23 this STAR rebate check. Last year, of the 24 3.3 million, 2.9 million actually got a check.

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(518) 371-8910 1 So if you do not support this 2 amendment, what you are doing for 2.9 million 3 people in this state, people that live in 4 every single county in this state, you are 5 taking money out of their pockets at a time 6 when their property taxes are going up. 7 And we express concern in this 8 chamber over toxic mortgages, mortgages that 9 people either couldn't afford or didn't 10 realize that their mortgages were going to be 11 adjusted, and we tried to protect them. This 12 Senate has tried to take actions to protect 13 people against toxic mortgages. 14 On the other hand, we're imposing 15 toxic taxes. And with these toxic taxes we 16 are doing exactly what we're trying to prevent 17 in the mortgage industry, but worse, because 18 the amount of money that the average household 19 will have to pay next year under this 20 budget -- between not getting their STAR 21 rebate, energy taxes, and every other thing 22 that's taxed in this budget -- is another $200 23 a month, or $2,400 a year. That's a lot of 24 money.

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(518) 371-8910 1 So what I'm asking is to unite on 2 this particular amendment. This is a very 3 important amendment because, come September 4 and October, when the property tax bill 5 arrives in the mail and the rebate check 6 doesn't, our phones are going to continue to 7 ring off the hook, and they're going to say, 8 "Where is my STAR rebate check?" 9 Especially for seniors, who have to 10 pay their property taxes and don't have any 11 kids in the school. They're going to ask me, 12 "Where is my STAR rebate check?" And I'm 13 going to tell them that I put in an amendment 14 to give you a STAR rebate check. 15 And all we need are a couple of 16 votes, and we can actually give them a 17 positive answer. We can say yes, you're going 18 to get your STAR rebate check. 19 Mr. President, I'd ask that we take 20 a vote on this. This is a very important 21 issue. And let's have some bipartisan support 22 on this particular STAR rebate check issue. 23 Thank you, Mr. President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank

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(518) 371-8910 1 you, Senator Ranzenhofer. 2 Senator LaValle, on the amendment. 3 SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you, 4 Mr. President. 5 Long Islanders, if the PIT is 6 enacted, will pay 16 percent of that tax, one 7 of the highest contributions in the State of 8 New York. When we look at real property 9 taxes, Nassau and Suffolk residents pay the 10 highest property taxes. 11 And I'm rising today just to give a 12 historic perspective. We passed, some years 13 ago, the basic STAR and enhanced STAR program. 14 And at the time it brought a lot of joy, 15 because people saw for the first time that 16 they received an exemption that was worth $500 17 to probably about $1,000. 18 And we found, as a Legislature, 19 that the school districts played a smart game. 20 They saw that their school district received 21 back, because we gave them back dollar for 22 dollar the exemptions that were taken off the 23 tax roll, and they increased their budgets 24 accordingly. So it was like additional state

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(518) 371-8910 1 aid. 2 We finally said, look, we need to 3 do something to give the money directly to the 4 people so that they can go out and pay their 5 taxes. That's what the program, the rebate 6 checks, the STAR rebate program was all about. 7 And under Governor Spitzer, we 8 reduced it to middle-income taxpayers. 9 Today, when we look at the basic 10 and enhanced and the rebate check, it really 11 represents real money, real relief to the 12 people that we represent. When October comes 13 of this year -- we think that people are 14 always weighing every word that we say in this 15 chamber, reading every word in the newspaper. 16 They don't. They will find, when October 17 comes, they'll be looking for their rebate 18 checks. And as has been said, it's not going 19 to come, and your phones are going to be 20 ringing off the hook. 21 You will have to tell them that it 22 wasn't in the budget, and whether you 23 supported that or didn't support that. 24 So this is critically important.

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(518) 371-8910 1 If there is one item in this budget that is 2 critically important to the people of the 3 First Senatorial District, it's the STAR 4 rebate program. And as Senator Marcellino 5 indicated, we put forth a budget. This was 6 one of the central items in our budget, 7 restoring the money for the STAR rebate 8 program. 9 So I hope that people will -- 10 Democrat members will come across and vote 11 with us on this, because this is critically 12 important to our taxpayers. 13 Thank you, Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 15 you, Senator LaValle. 16 The question is on the nonsponsor 17 motion to amend Calendar Number 136. All in 18 favor signify by raising your hand. 19 Announce the results. 20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 30. Nays, 21 30. 22 Excused from voting, Senator 23 Hassell-Thompson. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The

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(518) 371-8910 1 motion fails. 2 Senator Libous. 3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, 4 Mr. President. I believe there's another 5 amendment at the desk by Senator Ranzenhofer. 6 Could we waive its reading, and could you 7 please call on Senator Ranzenhofer. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: There 9 is an amendment at the desk from Senator 10 Ranzenhofer. 11 Without objection, the reading is 12 waived and, Senator Ranzenhofer, you are 13 recognized to speak on the amendment. 14 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Thank you, 15 Mr. President. 16 We talked about this morning that 17 there are millions of hardworking families 18 that are trimming their own household budgets. 19 And it's time that we here in the Senate in 20 New York State took action on a constitutional 21 spending cap that would restrain spending 22 growth and tax increases for years in the 23 future. 24 Everybody is aware that the federal

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(518) 371-8910 1 stimulus package provides relief for our state 2 budget short-term, but we need to bear in mind 3 this funding is not going to be there in 4 future years. And the need to make some 5 structural long-term fiscal reforms is more 6 critical than ever. 7 Now, this has been highlighted by 8 the opinion of our Comptroller, Thomas 9 DiNapoli. He said that the budget is not a 10 long-term solution to New York's propensity to 11 spend more than the state can afford. He says 12 that it does so by an overreliance on 13 nonrecurring federal stimulus funds, and that 14 they're not going to be there in the outyears. 15 Mr. President, 30 states in our 16 country have placed statutory or 17 constitutional caps on spending. And New York 18 continues to rank, as Senator Fuschillo said 19 earlier, among the top in combined state and 20 local tax burden. When you talk about 21 property taxes, income taxes, business taxes, 22 corporate taxes, personal income taxes, and 23 sales taxes, we need to take some action to 24 restrain this state.

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(518) 371-8910 1 A spending cap would limit 2 year-to-year state spending increases. The 3 authority to exceed the cap would only be 4 authorized by the Comptroller in an emergency 5 situation. 6 As a matter of fact, prior to my 7 arrival in the Senate, Mr. President, last 8 year the Senate passed Resolution 7134 with 9 bipartisan support to enact a spending cap on 10 all state funds. In light of what's going on 11 in this state, Mr. President, right now, a 12 spending cap is needed more than ever, 13 especially given the serious economic 14 challenges that we have in this state and the 15 fact that we all know that in a year or two 16 this federal money dries up, the stimulus 17 package will not be there anymore, and we will 18 be in a greater deficit than we are today. 19 So I would urge its approval. 20 Thank you, Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 22 you, Senator Ranzenhofer. 23 Senator Marcellino, on the 24 amendment.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, 2 briefly, Mr. President. 3 I rise because this state is 4 spending too much, clearly. And we have an 5 opportunity here by this resolution to 6 demonstrate and lead by our own example, and 7 that is to cap spending. 8 How do we go back to local 9 districts, how do we go back to the counties, 10 school districts, towns and otherwise and tell 11 them to slow down spending and cap their 12 spending if we don't do it? 13 We have an opportunity here to lead 14 by example, and we should. Let us cap our 15 spending. 16 Thank you. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 18 you, Senator Marcellino. 19 The question now is on the 20 nonsponsor motion to amend Calendar Number 21 136. All in favor signify by raising your 22 hand. 23 Announce the results. 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 30. Nays,

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(518) 371-8910 1 31. 2 Excused from voting, Senator 3 Hassell-Thompson. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 5 motion fails. 6 Senator Libous. 7 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 8 believe there's an amendment at the desk by 9 Senator LaValle. Would you waive its reading 10 and please call on Senator LaValle. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: There 12 is an amendment at the desk. Without 13 objection, the reading is waived, and Senator 14 LaValle is now recognized to speak on the 15 amendment. 16 SENATOR LaVALLE: On the 17 amendment, Mr. President. 18 I have spoken in the last number of 19 days about the need for institutional aid to 20 help both State University and City 21 University. Today, this amendment goes to 22 helping individuals pay tuition through two 23 mechanisms. 24 One is a mechanism called Family

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(518) 371-8910 1 Tuition Investment Plan. As we all know, and 2 probably very painfully, some of us in this 3 chamber have set up 529 accounts through the 4 College Choice Program that we passed into law 5 here or another 529 program that sets aside 6 money in an IRA for the education of a child 7 or a grandchild or a niece or a nephew. 8 As everyone knows -- again, 9 painfully -- the 529 accounts are not doing 10 very well. A lot of money has been lost. 11 This mechanism allows individuals 12 to make a contractual agreement with a trust 13 fund set up to lock in tuition at SUNY or CUNY 14 now. An individual has to be -- the child has 15 to be 14 years or younger, and the State 16 University would receive that money. In this 17 budget, they would receive $116 million, we 18 estimate, on the basis of various 19 demographics. 20 I think it addresses the 21 institutional problem the State University has 22 or the City University has. And the parent 23 for the child is guaranteed that that will be 24 their tuition. It does not guarantee

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(518) 371-8910 1 admission, but it guarantees that the tuition 2 is locked in. 3 The second part of the amendment 4 deals with tuition tax credit. New York 5 State -- and we in this Legislature -- I 6 believe was the first state to enact a tuition 7 tax credit. The federal government lagged 8 behind. But in the stimulus bill, it 9 increased the federal tuition tax credit from 10 $1,800 to $2,500. 11 We increase our tuition deduction 12 from $10,000 to $12,500 and also our tax 13 credit from $400 to $500. This would give 14 great relief to the individuals who are so 15 concerned about funding their child's 16 education. 17 The first provision actually 18 generates money for the state. The second 19 provision, the tax credit, tax deduction 20 provision, is a $4 million provision, and we 21 can pay for that in the same way. This was 22 part of our budget recommendation. 23 Thank you, Mr. President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank

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(518) 371-8910 1 you, Senator LaValle. 2 The question is on the nonsponsor 3 motion to amend Calendar Number 136. All in 4 agreement indicate by raising your hand. 5 Announce the results. 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 30. Nays, 7 30. 8 Excused from voting, Senator 9 Hassell-Thompson. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 11 motion fails. 12 Senator Libous. 13 SENATOR LIBOUS: There's another 14 amendment at the desk, sir, that I ask that 15 you waive its reading and call on Senator 16 Flanagan and then Senator Saland, please. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: I'll 18 do that. 19 Before we do that, I would just 20 inform the members that we have four more 21 amendments, so I would request that you stay 22 close by to the chamber so we can expedite 23 these votes. 24 Senator Flanagan, there is an

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(518) 371-8910 1 amendment at the desk. Without objection, the 2 reading of the amendment is waived and you may 3 be heard on said amendment. 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you, 5 Mr. President. 6 The other day we had some 7 discussion on the education portion of the 8 budget, and today we're following up in the 9 language bill. And I had inquired of Senator 10 Oppenheimer as to some points that are 11 actually contained in this bill. 12 And I must express at the outset my 13 clear disappointment that in the budget 14 proposal that we have before us that there is 15 absolutely no mandate relief. And frankly, 16 there's no excuse for the fact that there's no 17 mandate relief, because it's easy, it's common 18 sense, it's something that's been discussed ad 19 nauseam by our school districts. We talked 20 about it in conference committees over the 21 last couple of years, but nothing's been done. 22 The Senate Republicans, every 23 chance we got, we advocated, we put 24 legislation here before this house, we put

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(518) 371-8910 1 legislation before the conference committees. 2 And it contains some very basic things that 3 even the Governor had in his budget proposal. 4 And the amendment that we have 5 before us today I think will go a long way 6 towards helping our school districts. And I 7 don't care what corner of the state you live 8 in, whether it's the City of New York or out 9 on Long Island or any small community in 10 upstate New York. Mandate relief is something 11 we hear about all the time from our districts. 12 So let me quickly go through the 13 list of what is contained in this amendment. 14 First, no unfunded mandates. It's about time. 15 If the state is going to say you have to do 16 something, we should have to pay for it. 17 Second, no mandates should be 18 applied during a school fiscal year, something 19 Senator Saland has spoken about at great 20 length in past years. We should set the rules 21 of the game so schools know what's going on 22 and not change them right in the middle of the 23 school year. 24 Third, the Paperwork Reduction Act.

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(518) 371-8910 1 There are so many reporting requirements that 2 school districts have to comply with that I 3 believe don't do a darn thing to educate 4 children. If they're superfluous and 5 unnecessary, get rid of them. 6 Fourth, energy audits. Allows for 7 energy audits for all schools that would be 8 aidable and payable by the State of New York. 9 Fifth, green buildings. We provide 10 incentives. Everybody talks about green 11 technology and green buildings. We have in 12 this amendment an incentive for school 13 districts to be involved so that there would 14 be additional aid if they chose to do so. 15 Sixth, BOCES. Expanding the role 16 of BOCES. I believe very strongly that if 17 we're going to find ways to help school 18 districts save money, we have to go to the 19 model we already have and simply try and 20 improve it. 21 Seventh, enhanced consolidation 22 initiatives. Very difficult to force school 23 districts to consolidate, but if we provide 24 incentives, that gives them the financial

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(518) 371-8910 1 opportunity to look at this and maybe view 2 things differently than they would otherwise. 3 Eighth, school superintendent 4 sharing. This is a simple change in the law 5 that would allow school superintendents to be 6 shared by smaller school districts throughout 7 the State of New York. 8 Ninth, teacher pension costs. This 9 is something that not a lot of people really 10 understand. But the state will provide relief 11 with pension costs by providing a $100 million 12 program to aid for costs in excess of 13 4 percent outside of New York City, and up to 14 40 percent of the money in that program could 15 be used for New York City. 16 Municipal building sharing, 17 transportation contracts, and a blue ribbon 18 commission on mandates is the other thing. 19 Now, you might say, in light of 20 what I'm saying, why would we have a blue 21 ribbon commission? It is a very tight time 22 frame. It is an 11-member commission that has 23 to report back to this body. 24 But I believe that the things that

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(518) 371-8910 1 we are advocating right in this amendment all 2 are common sense. I've been here for a long 3 time, I hear these things from my school 4 districts all the time. And especially now, 5 when it is difficult to actually give out 6 money, we should be finding ways to help 7 school districts save money, which inures to 8 the benefit of the property taxpayer. 9 Thank you, Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 11 you, Senator Flanagan. 12 Senator Saland, on the amendment. 13 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 14 Mr. President. 15 I'm not going to repeat any of the 16 items that Senator Flanagan made mention of. 17 The fact of the matter is is that each and 18 every one of those items that he made 19 reference to has unanimously passed this house 20 previously. And there's no reason for it not 21 to pass unanimously. In fact, it's totally 22 revenue-neutral. 23 We all pay lip service to the idea 24 of mandate relief. It's one of the most basic

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(518) 371-8910 1 and elementary things that we can do for 2 school districts. We can give them the relief 3 that they've been pleading for, begging for, 4 petitioning for, groveling for. There's 5 absolutely no reason why this house cannot 6 make this statement, as it has in the past, 7 now, here, today. It's not going to cost one 8 single solitary penny, but it's going to save 9 school districts millions upon millions of 10 dollars. 11 I implore you to do the right thing 12 for each and every one of you, particularly 13 for those of you who have independent school 14 districts. And, for that matter, the 15 dependent, the Big Five. They all will 16 welcome this as perhaps one of the most 17 important things you could have possibly done 18 for them at any time at any place. 19 Do the right thing on this one. 20 Let's pass this amendment. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 22 you, Senator Saland. 23 The question is on the nonsponsor 24 motion to amend Calendar Number 136. All in

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(518) 371-8910 1 agreement indicate by raising your hand. 2 The Secretary will announce the 3 results. 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 30. Nays, 5 30. 6 Excused, Senator Hassell-Thompson. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 8 motion fails. 9 Senator Libous. 10 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 11 there's an amendment at the desk by Senator 12 Saland. Please waive its reading and call on 13 Senator Saland. 14 And I would probably ask the 15 members to stay close to the chamber, because 16 this will probably be very quick. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: We'll 18 ask the members to stay close by to the 19 chamber. 20 There is an amendment at the desk. 21 Without objection, the reading of the 22 amendment is waived. And, Senator Saland, you 23 are recognized to speak on the amendment. 24 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. 2 Mr. President, I'm sure we're all 3 familiar with the Contracts for Excellence 4 provisions of Education Law whereby any 5 district that receives an increase of more 6 than 10 percent in foundation aid, or 7 $15 million or more, is subject to the 8 contract. 9 Let me preface my remarks by saying 10 a couple of years ago, when I chaired the 11 Education Committee, in a time in which we 12 provided just an extraordinary amount of 13 additional education aid, I was the lone vote 14 in opposition to the education budget -- not 15 because of the aid that I had negotiated into 16 the budget, but because of at that time an 17 issue dealing with charter schools, an issue 18 which -- a concept which I didn't oppose, but 19 an issue which bore disproportionately heavy 20 on certain school districts in the absence of 21 local control, districts such as the City of 22 Buffalo, the City of Albany, that were really 23 paying more than their fair share. 24 Well, this similarly is a situation

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(518) 371-8910 1 which cries out for change. There are schools 2 called successful schools. They are the very 3 schools upon which the whole system of 4 foundation aid is based. And as successful 5 schools would imply, they're just that; 6 they're successful. They're doing things 7 well, they're doing things right, and they 8 form the basis for all the calculations and 9 contrivances that gave us the foundation aid 10 formula. 11 There are school districts called 12 districts in good standing. As the name 13 implies, after some 45 pages of data and 14 analysis, the State Education Department says: 15 You're a district in good standing. 16 There are 10 members here who have, 17 between them, 17 school districts that are 18 either successful and/or districts in good 19 standing, districts that have been recognized 20 for the quality of their work. 21 Under the Contract for Excellence, 22 they virtually lose the ability to use their 23 money as they see fit. They were successful 24 before the contracts, they're successful

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(518) 371-8910 1 during the contracts, they're in good standing 2 during the Contract for Excellence, and 3 they're severely hamstrung. They can use it 4 for programs. Under this amendment, they can 5 use it for tax relief. 6 And I want to identify 7 alphabetically the members of the districts. 8 We have, in Senator Aubertine's district, the 9 Fulton School District, which is a district in 10 good standing, and the Oswego District, which 11 is a successful school and a district in good 12 standing. 13 Senator Bonacic also has two: 14 Monticello and Port Jervis, both districts in 15 good standing. 16 Senator Breslin has two: South 17 Colonie and Watervliet, South Colonie being a 18 successful school and a district in good 19 standing, Watervliet a district in good 20 standing. 21 Senator Griffo has Massena, which 22 is a successful school and a district in good 23 standing. 24 Senator Larkin, Valley Montgomery,

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(518) 371-8910 1 a successful school and district in good 2 standing. 3 Senator Oppenheimer has two, 4 Ossining and White Plains, both of which are 5 districts in good standing. 6 Senator Morahan has Haverstraw, 7 which is a district in good standing. 8 Senator Nozzolio, Geneva, 9 successful school and district in good 10 standing, and Watervliet, a district in good 11 standing. 12 I have three, Hyde Park, Arlington, 13 and Wappinger, Hyde Park being a district in 14 good standing and both Arlington and Wappinger 15 being successful schools and districts in good 16 standing. 17 And Senator Winner has Elmira, a 18 district in good standing. 19 There is absolutely no reason 20 whatsoever that these school districts should 21 be ensnared in the Contract for Excellence 22 requirements. These school districts should 23 have the ability to continue to do what they 24 have done to make them successful, to make

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(518) 371-8910 1 them in good standing -- without being 2 micromanaged by some people who have never set 3 foot in a classroom, some people who wouldn't 4 know what it would be like to instruct a 5 child, some person or people who, if they were 6 asked to instruct your children and to ensure 7 the quality of their education, in all 8 likelihood result in those children finding 9 the quality of their education diminished. 10 This was put together by a bunch of 11 bureaucrats because it seemed to be a great 12 thing to do. 13 Nobody is opposed to 14 accountability. This is about flexibility for 15 people who are the very models for that which 16 we hope all of our schools and school 17 districts will accomplish. Give them a break. 18 Let them have the latitude. Let them be able 19 to do what it is that they do well: educate 20 children. 21 Lastly, in some instances, a number 22 of these districts are on for one reason and 23 one reason alone. And I'll give you an 24 example of one of my districts. Over 10,000

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(518) 371-8910 1 students. Because 14 students with 2 disabilities failed to pass one of the No 3 Child Left Behind required tests, they have 4 effectively lost the ability to manage 3-plus 5 million dollars, 3-plus million dollars, 6 because of 14 students out of 10,000 students. 7 You figure the number. I don't know how many 8 zeros there are after the decimal point. You 9 figure the number. But because of that, that 10 school district has lost the ability to 11 control its own money. 12 Again, simple. Doesn't cost 13 anybody anything. All we're doing is 14 recognizing that quality schools who have done 15 the job right deserve the ability to continue 16 to do the job right without being severely 17 hamstrung by some bureaucrats who wouldn't 18 know a classroom if they stumbled into one. 19 Thank you. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 21 you, Senator Saland. 22 The question is on the nonsponsor 23 motion to amend Calendar Number 136. All in 24 agreement indicate by raising your hand.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Announce the results. 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 30. Nays, 3 31. 4 Excused, Senator Hassell-Thompson. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 6 motion fails. 7 Senator Libous. 8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 9 there's another amendment at the desk. I ask 10 that you waive its reading and please call on 11 Senator Young and Senator Little, please. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: There 13 is an amendment at the desk. Without 14 objection, the reading of the amendment is 15 waived. 16 Senator Young, you are recognized 17 to speak on the amendment. 18 SENATOR YOUNG: Thank you, 19 Mr. President. 20 This amendment deals with the 21 OCFS -- that's the Office of Children and 22 Family Services -- youth facility closures. 23 Effective June 2009, the Governor and the 24 Senate Democrats propose to close, in this

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(518) 371-8910 1 budget, the following youth facilities: Great 2 Valley, that has 31 employees; Cattaraugus, 3 32 employees -- and both of those are in my 4 district -- the Adirondack nonsecure centers, 5 30 employees, in Senator Little's district; 6 the Rochester and Syracuse community 7 residential homes, nine employees, that affect 8 Senator Valesky, Senator Robach, and Senator 9 Alesi; the Pyramid Reception Center, 47 beds, 10 80 employees -- that's in Senator Diaz's 11 district, and I might note that out of respect 12 for Senator Diaz, last year the Senate 13 Republicans kept that open in the budget -- 14 and the evening reporting centers in Albany, 15 Buffalo, and Syracuse, 22 employees, that 16 affect Senator Breslin, Senator Stachowski, 17 Senator Thompson and Senator Valesky. 18 Also affected is the Tryon Limited 19 Secure Center and the Allen Secure Center, and 20 both of those will be downsized by June of 21 2009, which impacts 65 beds and 250 employees. 22 To accomplish these closures, 23 Article VII legislation would repeal the 24 current 12-month notice law. All employee

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(518) 371-8910 1 reductions would be accomplished by layoffs. 2 What a time to eliminate jobs, when 3 we're already losing jobs in New York State. 4 In some cases, this may result in young people 5 being placed in privately operated facilities. 6 We've already seen tragic consequences from 7 that because earlier this year, on 8 January 31st, Rochester Police Officer Anthony 9 DiPonzio and his partner went to check on drug 10 activity, and, as he was walking away from a 11 15-year-old youth, he was shot in the back of 12 the head. 13 He survived, and he was just 14 released from a brain rehabilitation center. 15 He needs to wear a helmet, and he needs more 16 surgery. This 15-year-old youth had run away 17 from a private facility. He was absent 18 without leave, AWOL, but he was under the 19 supervision, supposedly, of the Office of 20 Children and Family Services. 21 We will see more situations like 22 this as you close our youth facilities. 23 They're doing a great job helping these 24 troubled youth. There are so many success

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(518) 371-8910 1 stories coming out of these facilities. And 2 it really is a tragedy that they're being 3 closed. 4 In 2008, the Governor appointed a 5 task force, a Juvenile Justice Task Force, to 6 study juvenile services in New York State. 7 They're still undergoing their review. Why 8 would we close these facilities before this 9 task force makes its determination? We should 10 not be closing these facilities, that's the 11 bottom line. 12 But the other promise that is 13 broken by New York State is that there was to 14 be a 12-month notice given to communities that 15 will be losing these jobs, be losing these 16 facilities, so that they could plan and have 17 alternative usage. That changes under 18 Article VII language in this budget, and 19 that's what our amendment is about. 20 It would reject the change in the 21 12-month notification law by deleting Part W. 22 And I would urge people to vote on behalf of 23 this measure. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank

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(518) 371-8910 1 you, Senator Young. 2 Senator Little, on the amendment. 3 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you, 4 Mr. President. I would like to join Senator 5 Young in speaking on this amendment about the 6 importance of these youth facilities. 7 In this budget we see that a lot of 8 stimulus money is being used, stimulus money 9 from the federal government, which I am 10 finding continues to stimulate unemployment in 11 my district. 12 I have a youth facility, a very 13 good youth facility in Clinton County. Last 14 year there were two youth facilities. They 15 merged into one to be more efficient. I 16 understood that. However, 24 people found 17 other jobs or were let go. 18 We now have the loss of 30 more 19 jobs in Clinton County. But it's more 20 important than the jobs that we're losing. 21 We're losing a facility that has a great 22 record. I have a report that this facility 23 has like a 66 percent no-recidivism rate, 24 which is very high for a state facility.

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(518) 371-8910 1 The New York State Comptroller's 2 office in 2001 also cited this facility in the 3 Adirondacks. It said: "The results of their 4 study showed the Adirondack Wilderness Center 5 recidivism rate was much better than all other 6 state programs and seemed to be stable even at 7 an extended period. Cost per resident was 8 cheaper than both traditional programs." 9 This is a good facility that has 10 helped many troubled young people. Is it far 11 from New York City? Yes. And that's the 12 answer that I get when we talk to the 13 Commissioner of OCFS. But it's not only far 14 from New York City, it's far from the 15 influences that got these young people in 16 trouble. It shows them a different way of 17 life. It shows them an appreciation for the 18 outdoors. It's not for every young person, 19 but the young people who have gone here have 20 benefited from it. 21 Will it cost money to keep this 22 open? Yes. But it will result in savings if 23 we help young people and keep them out of our 24 correctional system and keep them from

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(518) 371-8910 1 returning to these facilities. 2 And if you're looking for money 3 that you could spend to help young people turn 4 their lives around, there's still $60 million 5 in this budget for the purchase of more land, 6 and land not only in the Adirondacks but in 7 other spots. 8 We have shown over $3.2 billion in 9 new cost-cutting measures for this budget to 10 afford the things that we are making 11 amendments to put back in, because we feel 12 that these are important issues. But our 13 ideas have fallen on deaf ears. 14 So in that light, I would ask you 15 to support this amendment and support many of 16 the troubled youth of New York State who, 17 according to this report, have really found 18 help at these centers. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 20 you, Senator Little. 21 Senator Farley, on the amendment. 22 SENATOR FARLEY: Yes. I wasn't 23 going to speak on this, but if everyone was 24 listening to these two gifted women Senators

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(518) 371-8910 1 on our side, it's so significant. This is a 2 little mini part of the budget that talks 3 about one little problem, that addresses our 4 youth. 5 These have been very, very 6 successful facilities. They've done a great 7 job for troubled youth. Everybody in here 8 ought to be concerned about their closing. 9 It's really not the way to go. 10 And I think this amendment really 11 has a lot of merit. It's something that I 12 really wish could pass, because this really 13 does for our society what is desperately 14 needed: to try to change the lives of people 15 that are going down the wrong way. These 16 youngsters have really been successfully 17 treated by these facilities. And by a stroke 18 of a pen in the budget, they're going to 19 extinguish this program. 20 I'm going to vote for this 21 amendment. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 23 you, Senator Farley. 24 Senator DeFrancisco, on the

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(518) 371-8910 1 amendment. 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, one of 3 these facilities is closing in Onondaga 4 County. And the sad part about it is that it 5 was a very successful program. 6 And there were many articles in our 7 paper saying that it's underutilized, we 8 should definitely close it to save some money, 9 it makes no sense. The problem is it was 10 planned obsolescence. There was a definite 11 plan by the State of New York to remove young 12 people out of those facilities where they were 13 getting good treatment and good programs. 14 And it's easy to say it's 15 underutilized if intentionally it became 16 underutilized. And we had a great workforce 17 there that really cared for these kids, and 18 it's truly a shame that this planned 19 obsolescence took place. 20 We should restore these facilities 21 and bring the kids back where they were 22 getting good programming. 23 Thank you. I support the 24 amendment.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 2 you, Senator DeFrancisco. 3 The question is on the nonsponsor 4 motion to amend Calendar Number 136. All in 5 agreement indicate by raising your hand. 6 Announce the results. 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 30. Nays, 8 31. 9 Excused, Senator Hassell-Thompson. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 11 motion fails. 12 Senator Libous. 13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 14 believe there is one last motion at the desk. 15 I would ask that you waive its reading and 16 call on Senator Alesi and then Senator Winner, 17 please. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: There 19 is one final amendment at the desk. 20 Without objection, the reading of 21 the amendment is waived. Senator Alesi, you 22 are recognized to speak on the amendment. 23 SENATOR ALESI: Thank you, 24 Mr. President.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And I'm sure we're all, if nothing 2 else, at least happy that this will be the 3 last amendment of the day and of this process. 4 But make no mistake, this being the last 5 amendment -- I'll be happy to wait for some 6 quiet, Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Can we 8 have some quiet in the chamber, please. Any 9 conversation that must take place, please take 10 it outside of the chamber so that we can hear 11 the speakers. 12 SENATOR ALESI: Thank you, 13 Mr. President. 14 Make no mistake, this being the 15 last amendment does not make it the least. It 16 is my opinion that of all of the amendments 17 that have been offered here that are vitally 18 important to the conscience of this conference 19 and should be and should have been to the 20 entire body. With respect to this particular 21 amendment, it offers hope for not only the 22 upstate communities that many of us represent, 23 but as the Governor is fond of saying, all of 24 New York, the one New York that we

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(518) 371-8910 1 collectively represent. 2 This amendment will provide tax 3 cuts for small manufacturers all across 4 New York State. There are approximately 5 18,000 high-tech companies that produce goods 6 and services -- some in upstate, some in 7 New York City. But they're produced all over 8 the state and used all over the state and 9 exported not only throughout the United States 10 but all across the country. 11 It's vitally important that these 12 small businesses, with an average employee 13 staff of about 16, be given every opportunity 14 to thrive, to succeed, to grow. And one of 15 the ways that this program and this amendment 16 will accomplish that is to provide tax cuts 17 for small businesses, many of them 18 manufacturers, cutting the corporate franchise 19 tax in half in the first year and eliminating 20 it altogether in the second year and 21 thereafter. 22 Those kinds of tax cuts not only 23 send a message to companies outside of 24 New York State but to the ones that are going

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(518) 371-8910 1 to suffer under the burden of this 2 $132 billion budget that is being imposed on 3 all of us. It will send a message that there 4 is some hope, and at the same time it will 5 improve their bottom line almost immediately 6 by lessening the tax burden. That means that 7 they'll be able to keep employees, hire 8 employees, and be more productive. 9 The second part of this Upstate Now 10 program, which was introduced last year but 11 now applies to all of New York State, is a tax 12 incentive offering for manufacturers, 13 manufacturers that will have a payroll tax 14 credit if they hire new employees and a 15 investment tax credit if they're investing in 16 infrastructure. 17 And the final component of this -- 18 and by the way, that manufacturing tax credit 19 will also apply to farms, so that farmers can 20 take advantage of hiring new people and 21 investing in infrastructure as well. 22 There's a job-training component in 23 here that also offers a tax credit of up to 24 50 percent of the cost of training existing

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(518) 371-8910 1 employees as well as new employees. 2 And finally, this amendment 3 contains a component that each and every one 4 of us in this chamber last year voted for and 5 in the Assembly voted for, passed 6 unanimously -- I think with one "no" vote over 7 there -- an amendment to the Healthy New York 8 Act. 9 Now, with everything that's been 10 said about healthcare and the need for 11 improved healthcare and health coverage in 12 this state, as it applies to small businesses, 13 there hasn't been a better plan than the 14 Healthy New York plan. The Healthy New York 15 plan, as you know, allows small businesses to 16 offer their employees discounted healthcare 17 coverage. 18 Under the Healthy New York plan as 19 it was originally drafted, existing companies 20 had to have a 12-month waiting period if they 21 were already giving healthcare to their 22 employees. New companies that never offered 23 healthcare did not have to wait; they could 24 offer discounted healthcare to their employees

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(518) 371-8910 1 from day one. 2 We understood that that was 3 patently unfair and counterintuitive. I 4 sponsored the bill here, Assemblymember 5 Morelle sponsored the bill in the Assembly, 6 and as I said, it was passed unanimously in 7 this house and nearly unanimously in the 8 Assembly. 9 Unfortunately, the Governor vetoed 10 that bill, citing the cost that might apply. 11 I disagreed with that rationale. But it's a 12 moot point, because now we're flush with all 13 of this stimulus money that's coming from 14 Washington. And a significant amount of that 15 money is supposed to go to cover the cost of 16 healthcare and health insurance. 17 So, my colleagues, when we're 18 looking at unemployment all across this state 19 being nearly double what it was last year -- 20 and I'm not going to do what has been done 21 here for the last couple of days and select a 22 few of the members of the Senate from upstate 23 New York and cite their unemployment rates. 24 I'll cite all of our unemployment rates.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Because, you know, if you look at 2 Lewis County, it's 11 percent -- or if you 3 look at Jefferson County, it's 11 percent. 4 Lewis County is almost 13 percent. Well, I 5 recognize that Senator Aubertine represents 6 that area, but I also recognize that Senator 7 Griffo represents one of those areas. 8 If you look in Buffalo, it's almost 9 10 percent. That's Senator Stachowski. But 10 Niagara, that's over 10 percent. That's 11 Senator Maziarz, if you go all the way across 12 this. 13 So why am I throwing in the 14 Republican Senators when we have been 15 highlighting the Democrat Senators? And I'll 16 tell you why. Because I believe that if you 17 recognize that this is our problem just as 18 much as your problem, you'll understand that 19 there isn't a reason on earth why there should 20 be a negative vote on this bill when every 21 single one of us voted for it last year and 22 when every single one of us had the 23 opportunity to do something good for the 24 people we represent regardless of what county

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(518) 371-8910 1 we come from and regardless of where we are. 2 This is a good bill for small 3 business in New York State. This is a good 4 bill for the people that are trying to make a 5 go of it in New York State. This is a good 6 bill for the average 16 employees per small 7 business that work in the almost half-million 8 small businesses across this state. 9 When I cite unemployment rates in 10 Jefferson County and I cite unemployment rates 11 in Monroe County that I represent, I'm saying 12 across the board there isn't a single reason 13 and there isn't a single Senator that should 14 be able to say no to it. In fact, every one 15 of us should be able to say yes to this. 16 The NFIB supports this, the 17 Business Council supports this. 18 And now, ladies and gentlemen, I 19 hope I have had your attention on this very 20 important issue; I hope that I will have your 21 support on this amendment. And as much as I 22 hate to stop talking right now, because I 23 believe so fervently that this is a good thing 24 for small business in New York State, I will

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(518) 371-8910 1 yield the rest of my time to Senator Winner, 2 who would like to talk on Empire Zones. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 4 you, Senator Alesi. 5 Senator Winner, on the amendment. 6 SENATOR WINNER: Thank you, 7 Mr. President. 8 As you heard from me a few days 9 ago, obviously the whole proposal with respect 10 to Empire Zones I think is one of the most 11 egregious proposals that we're seeing in this 12 year's budget and certainly one of the most 13 egregious anti-upstate New York proposals that 14 we've seen in many, many years. 15 The good Senator from Nassau 16 County, Senator Fuschillo, so eloquently 17 outlined all the noncompetitive ways that we 18 are in New York with respect to taxes. That's 19 one of the reasons why we need the Empire 20 Zone. 21 Senator Alesi points out the 22 unemployment rate and the necessity for us to 23 be competitive as it relates to creating jobs 24 in this state to overcome the unemployment

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(518) 371-8910 1 that is devastating our communities. 2 What have you done in this budget? 3 You've eliminated, one year early, and sped up 4 the elimination of the only economic 5 development tool that we have in upstate 6 New York to overcome the noncompetitive 7 circumstance that New York finds itself in. 8 Again, going forward in the Empire 9 Zone program, you're going to cut back on the 10 benefit of the real property tax credits. 11 You're going to eliminate the benefit of 12 trying to get sales tax exemptions. You're 13 going to cut off certain companies that have 14 been providing jobs and providing benefits to 15 upstate New York going forward that is going 16 to devastatingly increase that unemployment 17 even more. 18 As the head of the New York State 19 Economic Development Council pointed out, he 20 said: "The Empire Zone debate illustrates the 21 upstate/downstate split in state government. 22 It demonstrates how New York City-centric the 23 Legislature has become, and we're very 24 concerned that the focus on upstate is waning

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(518) 371-8910 1 significantly." 2 Now, some people have said this 3 bill is better than the Governor's bill. 4 Well, that is hardly an excuse. The 5 Governor's original proposal is admittedly 6 worse, but this isn't much better. In fact, 7 this will still cause the type of harm we have 8 in upstate New York as a result of eliminating 9 this program and making us even more 10 noncompetitive. 11 You know, we had a debate over in 12 the other house. The other house indicated 13 that, you know -- and I want to quote a little 14 bit. It says, "There's little in the way of 15 tax breaks in this budget. One, however, 16 gives $350 million this year to the movie and 17 television industry. The only new tax credit 18 proposal that we have in this budget is 19 $350 million for movies and television 20 operations in New York City, and not a dollar 21 for upstate New York." 22 He went on to say: "Meanwhile, the 23 call for tax breaks to encourage 24 rehabilitation of older buildings, which would

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(518) 371-8910 1 boost development in many upstate communities, 2 was not included, even though it would cost 3 nothing in 2009 and $87 million over six 4 years." 5 "There's no real attention to 6 Western New York and upstate," Assemblyman Sam 7 Hoyt said of this budget. "If I were the 8 deciding vote on the budget," he continued, "I 9 would have voted no." 10 I couldn't agree with Assemblyman 11 Hoyt anymore. He said it all. There's no 12 attention to western and upstate New York in 13 this budget. 14 You know, one of the other ironic 15 things is last year Senator Stachowski and 16 Senator Valesky joined with me in cosponsoring 17 legislation that was sponsored by the Rural 18 Resources Commission that would have expanded 19 Empire Zone programs in rural New York, 20 recognizing that the Empire Zone changes that 21 were being proposed and being suggested 22 demonstrated an upstate and rural New York 23 bias, a bias against upstate and rural 24 New York.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Those changes that they 2 supported -- you supported, Mr. President, and 3 you voted for a couple of years ago -- which 4 passed this body by a vote of 60 to 2, would 5 have expanded Empire Zone programs, 6 recognizing that Empire Zone programs in 7 upstate and rural New York needed to be 8 relaxed and encouraged and expanded rather 9 than decimated as they are under this 10 proposal. 11 So, my colleagues, there couldn't 12 be a better opportunity to stand up and voice 13 support for upstate New York and the upstate 14 economy than we could with regard to 15 supporting this amendment and supporting the 16 provisions for tax cuts and tax benefits that 17 will grow New York rather than shrink New York 18 that are contained in this amendment. 19 Thank you, Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 21 you, Senator Winner. 22 The question is on the nonsponsor 23 motion to amend Calendar Number 136. All in 24 agreement please raise your hand.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Announce. 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 30. Nays, 3 31. 4 Excused, Senator Hassell-Thompson. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 6 motion fails. 7 Senator Liz Krueger, on the bill. 8 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 9 Mr. President. 10 Well, as I started out this 11 morning, it's a very complex bill with many, 12 many sections. And we listened to my 13 colleagues with their proposed amendments. 14 And I asked my staff whether we could add up 15 all the amendments that have been brought to 16 the floor or already submitted on the budget, 17 because in fact this is the revenue bill. And 18 I've learned that if you add up all the 19 hostile amendments -- excuse me, all the 20 minority amendments -- it creates a financial 21 gap of $8 billion in the state budget. 22 And so my concern is we are allowed 23 to disagree, and we will, and that's 24 democracy. But I'm very confused about where

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(518) 371-8910 1 my colleagues think they could create a 2 balanced budget. Because they're cutting out 3 the tax proposals and they're putting back the 4 expenditures and they're not providing 5 alternative expenditure cuts or alternative 6 revenue additions. 7 And so, again, you add it up, 8 $8 billion out of whack. We have a 9 constitutional amendment that requires us to 10 pass a balanced budget, and we all know that. 11 And we all know that basically we're faced 12 with a challenge of a $16.5 billion budget 13 deficit. 14 And so with all due respect, a 15 group of amendments that puts us another 16 $8 billion out of whack, with a constitutional 17 obligation to go back to the voters of every 18 single district in our state and say, We 19 didn't want to make any hard cuts, we didn't 20 want to ask for shared pain by increasing 21 revenues, we just wanted to do what we like to 22 do -- which is spend and then borrow. Because 23 the only way your financial plan would work 24 would be to borrow the money.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And unfortunately, I believe that 2 in fact that is exactly what we did for the 3 last 20 years when you were in control of the 4 budget. We were a borrow-and-spend 5 legislature. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 7 Senator LaValle, why do you rise? 8 SENATOR LaVALLE: Would Senator 9 Krueger yield for one quick question? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 11 Senator Krueger, do you yield at this time? 12 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 14 Senator yields. 15 SENATOR LaVALLE: Senator 16 Krueger, did you read our budget proposal? 17 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, I did. 18 SENATOR LaVALLE: Okay. Thank 19 you. 20 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 21 And again, you cut the taxes that 22 are being added, and you put back money for 23 new expenditures or restorations. And so when 24 you add it all up, it's $8 billion, a gap of

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(518) 371-8910 1 $8 billion in the state financial plan. 2 And again, why are we here today at 3 this point? Of course we're in an economic 4 downturn that is horrendous worldwide, 5 nationally, and in our state. And so it's a 6 little, I suppose, disingenuous for any of us 7 to blame anyone specifically on that. But the 8 State of New York has built its debt ratio up, 9 year after year after year, decade after 10 decade. 11 And so, in fact, we can't borrow 12 our way out of the problems this year because 13 the debt is so high. And in fact, one of the 14 reasons our budget costs go up is because of 15 our debt service. 16 And I will just note that several 17 weeks ago you were voting against the debt 18 service bill. Which meant we were telling the 19 people we had borrowed money from and legally 20 owed interest and payments to that we were 21 choosing to default on our loans. Imagine the 22 State of New York saying it was going to 23 default on the money owed that we borrowed, 24 decades and decades worth of borrowing. That

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(518) 371-8910 1 is the most fiscally irresponsible thing the 2 State of New York could do. 3 And so while I admit this is not a 4 budget I like -- no one wants to cut programs; 5 no one wants to raise taxes -- this is the 6 situation we find ourselves in in the year 7 2009 both because of the actions of this 8 Legislature and the reality of a worldwide 9 economic crisis. 10 And so I respect my colleagues' 11 arguments that they would like to put 12 everything back. Who wouldn't like to put 13 everything back? I know my side would like to 14 put everything back also. But we have an 15 obligation, a legal, constitutional obligation 16 to balance the budget. 17 And so in fact the only way we 18 found that we could balance the budget was to 19 decide to pass some revenue. And you know 20 what? We did this last in 2003, under 21 Governor Pataki and Majority Leader Joe Bruno. 22 And we not only stood up and said, both 23 houses, We have to do this, as painful as it 24 is, but I know most of you recall that we

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(518) 371-8910 1 overrode a veto of Governor Pataki to do 2 exactly that, a temporary surcharge on 3 higher-income New Yorkers in order to not 4 leave ourselves with a fiscal gap or cause too 5 great pain to the people of New York by 6 cutting fundamental services. 7 And so we find ourselves in that 8 situation today again. And so when we have a 9 hostile amendment that eliminates the entire 10 tax and revenue bill, I'm very confused about 11 how we imagine we would meet the obligations 12 of the State of New York. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator DeFrancisco, why do you rise? 15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 16 Senator Krueger yield to a couple of 17 questions? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator Krueger, will you yield? 20 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: If you 21 wouldn't mind, I'd like to continue and then 22 take questions. I certainly will take your 23 question after, Senator DeFrancisco. 24 Thank you. And so I know that one

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(518) 371-8910 1 of the most controversial issues today is the 2 fact that there's a proposal to increase the 3 personal income tax in the state budget. And 4 many states are facing this exact situation. 5 California has increased its personal income 6 tax to a rate of 10.3 percent for people with 7 incomes over a million dollars, a 38 percent 8 increase. New Jersey has increased their tax 9 rate to 9.75 percent on people with incomes 10 above $500,000. 11 Again, we did a surcharge in 2003. 12 Connecticut yesterday increased its tax 13 60 percent, a 60 percent increase on couples 14 earning over a million dollars. They needed 15 to close an $8.7 billion gap. 16 We are proposing an increase, as 17 was discussed earlier, on people above 18 $300,000, $300,000 to $500,000, and between 19 $500,000 and a million and up. 20 And yes, I heard you reference the 21 testimony of James [sic] Haughton from the 22 Beacon Institute arguing that this increase 23 would lose 15,000 jobs. Many economists have 24 written just the opposite and have stated just

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(518) 371-8910 1 the opposite, and the data from study after 2 study shows that that impact will not happen. 3 And I just note, for the transcript 4 record, the gentleman from the Beacon 5 Institute who you're citing is on a consultant 6 contract with the Senate Republicans. 7 So fine, use your consultants, use 8 your experts. Everyone should use experts. 9 But he's pretty much the only one making that 10 argument. 11 And he made the argument that he 12 did an equilibrium model that has 3800 13 variables and that's how he concluded that 14 there would be 15,000 jobs lost. But in fact, 15 economic models are very often wrong. 16 Mr. Greenspan and the Federal Reserve Bank 17 models didn't predict the housing collapse. 18 So you can make economic models that say 19 almost anything. 20 But the vast majority of 21 economists, including Nobel Prize winners, are 22 in fact arguing your first assignment in an 23 economic downturn is to stimulate the economy 24 by spending money in the local economy as fast

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(518) 371-8910 1 as you can and create jobs. 2 And to quote my mayor, Mayor 3 Michael Bloomberg, in November 2008 when asked 4 about marginal tax rates on the wealthy 5 impacting them: "I can only tell you among my 6 friends I've never heard one person say 'I'm 7 going to move out of the city because of 8 taxes.' Not one, not in all the years I've 9 lived here. You know, they can complain, 'Oh, 10 I get my tax bill, it's heavy.' But they've 11 never, ever thought that. My friends all want 12 to live here and understand the value." 13 And I've heard from my constituents 14 since we've put the personal income tax 15 proposal into the budget -- and just for the 16 record, my district will take the largest hit 17 from this personal income tax increase, the 18 number-one district. And I've heard 19 constituents, and they're concerned. 20 And I've had constituents claim and 21 point out: "So you're raising our taxes so we 22 can transfer the money to upstate New York." 23 Because that in fact is what we're doing in 24 the budget. We are trying to make sure we

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(518) 371-8910 1 don't cut the programs and the services for 2 upstate New York. And so in fact we are 3 transferring money up there. 4 And when I explained, "But we have 5 to" -- 6 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 8 Senator Libous. 9 SENATOR LIBOUS: Would Senator 10 Krueger yield for a question? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator Krueger, do you yield for a question? 13 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: You know, I 14 just asked Senator DeFrancisco to wait till I 15 was done, so -- is it one question? 16 SENATOR LIBOUS: One question. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 18 Senator Krueger yields to a question. 19 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Certainly, 20 yes. 21 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, 22 Senator. 23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: -- you like 24 Senator Libous better than me?

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(518) 371-8910 1 (Laughter.) 2 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I take the 3 Fifth. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 5 Proceed with your question. 6 SENATOR LIBOUS: I'm just 7 confused, Senator Krueger. I heard you say 8 that you're transferring the money to upstate 9 New York. 10 Do you not eliminate the STAR 11 rebate checks in this budget? Isn't that 12 money that was going back to the taxpayers in 13 upstate New York? You're taking that away 14 from us. How could you be transferring the 15 money to us? 16 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you 17 for the question. 18 The STAR rebate program of course 19 has an impact in every county, as does the 20 overall STAR program. Because as you know, we 21 are holding harmless the vast majority of the 22 STAR program and only impacting the STAR 23 rebate program. 24 And so in fact STAR overall and the

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(518) 371-8910 1 STAR rebate has an impact in every county, and 2 technically disproportionately also in the 3 City of New York, as you yourself reference, 4 or someone else did before. 5 So yes, when high-income earners 6 end up with a higher tax, it is distributed 7 away from New York City and Long Island at 8 this point in time to upstate New York. 9 SENATOR LIBOUS: I know she said 10 I could only have one question, Mr. President, 11 but I'm compelled to ask the good Senator for 12 one more, please. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield? 15 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Senator 16 DeFrancisco, will you hate me forever if I 17 allow him two questions? 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Not because 19 of this. 20 (Laughter.) 21 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Senator 22 Libous, Senator DeFrancisco gives you 23 permission. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Libous, you may proceed. 2 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, 3 Senator Krueger. 4 I'm again just a little confused on 5 your answer. By taking away the STAR rebate 6 check that's going to the people in Broome 7 County, Tioga County, and Chenango County, an 8 average of $450 to $500, by taking that check 9 away from them this year in upstate New York, 10 how does increasing taxes in New York City 11 transfer the wealth up there? 12 You're taking something away from 13 us. I don't understand it. 14 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Senator 15 Libous, if we had not made the change in the 16 STAR rebate program and if we did not increase 17 the personal income tax, I am very confident 18 we would have ended up having to cut education 19 funding and healthcare funding. 20 That clearly would have had a 21 direct impact on your district and your school 22 districts, regardless of where you were in the 23 state. But again, that also would have had a 24 disproportionate impact on poorer communities

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(518) 371-8910 1 of the State of New York. 2 So we were, as I said, in a very 3 difficult situation economically. Hard 4 choices were made. But in fact if you hold 5 all those up together, you will see that what 6 we are doing was actually protecting education 7 funds, healthcare funds, and other priorities. 8 And again, it is a transfer from 9 downstate to upstate, because of course we 10 know that at least in the City of New York we 11 historically are a donor to the upstate 12 economy at a tune of approximately $13 billion 13 a year. And because of the decisions we are 14 forced to make this year, the impact will be 15 even greater. 16 But we are one New York, and we 17 believe that we must make sure that all the 18 people of New York are protected and provided 19 fundamental basic services even in the 20 toughest of economic times. 21 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 22 Senator Krueger was nice enough to give me two 23 questions. I have much more to say on this 24 topic, but I'll wait till my turn. I'll let

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(518) 371-8910 1 her continue, because in all due respect I do 2 disagree with her, but I'll take that time a 3 little bit later. 4 Thank you, Senator. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Krueger, please continue. 7 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 8 Sorry, my thoughts were a little lost. 9 Just to highlight just a couple of 10 facts that I think perhaps were misspoken by 11 accident earlier. 12 The personal income tax in New York 13 State even in 2007 -- so it excludes the 14 changes that we're seeing in other neighboring 15 states already -- we were number 22 in the 16 country for the rate of personal income tax. 17 State taxes per $1,000 in personal income in 18 fiscal year 2000 placed, on a list of 19 50 states, New York at number 22. 20 Now, I could agree that's not at 21 the bottom, but it's not at the top either. 22 And it's not significantly more than the 23 national average. The U.S. average for 24 personal income taxes by state was $68.41 in

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(518) 371-8910 1 the year 2007, and it was $74.42 in New York 2 State. And so there's 21 states with a higher 3 personal income tax at that time. 4 And yes, it will go up because we 5 are calling for the surcharge. But again, 6 it's important to remember that when you look 7 at the overall tax rate for New York State, 8 when you look at the combination of taxes 9 across the board -- because of course we are 10 all people who evaluate our entire tax bill, 11 not just the personal income tax -- people in 12 the categories that would be impacted by the 13 taxes we are proposing in the budget today, 14 the top 5 percent of earners in New York 15 State, if they're the top 1 percent, they're 16 paying 17.3 percent of their total income as 17 taxes after federal offset deductions. And if 18 they're in the next 4 percent, earners 19 basically from $160,000 to $634,000, they're 20 paying 13.4 percent of their total income in 21 taxes after the federal offset. 22 So while we are raising the taxes 23 on the wealthiest, we are in fact not raising 24 their tax rate to significantly more than

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(518) 371-8910 1 other earners in the State of New York. And 2 in fact, their rates are still lower than 3 people with $74,000 to $160,000 in income or 4 people with $44,000 to $74,000 in personal 5 income. 6 And so I've had constituents tell 7 me, explain "fair." And I've had constituents 8 tell me just the opposite. They have told me 9 they support what we are doing. They 10 recognize that it is not in the state's best 11 interests if our public services collapse, if 12 we don't educate our children, if we allow our 13 hospitals to close down, if we don't have 14 police and fire and public transportation. 15 And they have told me that while so 16 many have already lost jobs and don't know 17 what they're going to do next, that we're only 18 talking about a tax on the people who still 19 have the earnings. I've had people call me 20 and say, "I don't understand. I lost my job 21 on Wall Street. What will this do to me?" 22 And I've explained, no, this 23 impacts you if you're still earning over 24 $300,000 a year or if you're still earning

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(518) 371-8910 1 over $500,000 a year. And so if you 2 unfortunately, because of the economic 3 collapse, have lost your job or your family 4 income has decreased, this isn't a tax on you. 5 This is a tax on people who are still making 6 the highest levels of income in the State of 7 New York. 8 And I have had them say to me, "Oh, 9 now I understand." And I've even had at least 10 one constituent say: "I live in the greatest 11 city in the greatest state in the greatest 12 country in the world. I have a wonderful 13 house and a wonderful life. I'm not allowed 14 to complain." And so I appreciate that people 15 do understand what the impact is. 16 And again, we're hoping that this 17 will only be a short-term need. But we have 18 to meet our obligations under the law, and so 19 we are forced to make these tough decisions. 20 And again, you can argue that there 21 were other models to do so. We could cut 22 education funding more. I've heard everyone 23 discuss on the floor in the last several days 24 that they are opposed to our having kept

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(518) 371-8910 1 education funding flat. I can't imagine 2 anyone who would have called for a cut in 3 education funding. 4 And I've heard everyone in this 5 room talk about the impact of the healthcare 6 cuts and that we could only make some of the 7 restorations to the proposed cuts that the 8 Governor offered us in his Executive Budget. 9 And I can't imagine that anyone wants to go 10 home and explain, No, we had to cut healthcare 11 more because we didn't have the revenue and we 12 had no choice. 13 And I've heard the argument that 14 this is going to hurt small businesses. But 15 in fact, just for the record, the marginal 16 income tax increases will not have a 17 significant impact on small business owners: 18 98.6 percent of small business owners make 19 less than $250,000 a year. 20 And so yes, if you're a small 21 business paying your tax through the PIT and 22 you don't make a lot of money, this isn't 23 going to impact you. But it's a misnomer to 24 try to argue that we are attempting in any way

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(518) 371-8910 1 to put small businesses out of business by 2 increasing their taxes. 3 And we do have a historic problem 4 with inequity in the tax system. And I wish 5 that we could have done more to make it more 6 progressive. And I am hoping that we will do 7 so in future years. 8 But again, this year was hard 9 choices. And so we didn't get it perfectly 10 right, but we are going to make sure that the 11 money is used to stimulate the economy, keep 12 people in jobs, create jobs. 13 The amendments didn't reference 14 that in fact we have proposals to create tens 15 of thousands of jobs in New York, allowing 16 those people to be taxpayers and to contribute 17 towards the needs of the state. Leaving them 18 unemployed will only cost us more, immediately 19 and in the long-term. 20 And we have proposals to try to 21 protect those most vulnerable from the impact 22 of the state budget, and that will assure that 23 we don't have increased costs. 24 And so no one likes taxes. No one

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(518) 371-8910 1 likes to vote for taxes. We have a tax phobia 2 in this country. It is used to attack 3 politicians. I know that. I certainly expect 4 to be attacked on my position today. But I 5 feel that as responsible legislators we are 6 sent here to make the hard decisions and 7 explain to our voters why we had to do the 8 tough work that they might not like. But I 9 think when it is explained to them, they will 10 understand that we did what we had to do 11 today. 12 And that hopefully the actions we 13 take today will increase the chances of our 14 jump-starting our economy sooner than later 15 and allowing us to all move forward with 16 budgets not so painful in future years. 17 Thank you, Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 19 you, Senator Krueger. 20 Senator DeFrancisco. 21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 22 Krueger, I forgot my question. 23 (Laughter.) 24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: But I'll

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(518) 371-8910 1 think of another. 2 Senator Krueger, you indicated that 3 we had a -- oh, would you yield for a 4 question? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Kruger, do you yield to Senator 7 DeFrancisco? 8 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Of course, 9 Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 11 Senator yields. 12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: You just 13 mentioned that we had a lot of tough choices 14 to make, and you talked about people being 15 affected by this bad economy. 16 Do you think that raising the 17 amount of spending in the New York State 18 budget this year by $12 billion to 19 $13 billion, or almost 10 percent, which is 20 seven times the rate of inflation, was a 21 preferable way to be concerned about and deal 22 with the concerns of our beleaguered taxpayers 23 and citizens, that that's a better solution 24 than keep holding the line on taxes?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you 2 for the question. 3 As has been discussed quite a few 4 times in the last week, the General Fund only 5 increased 1 percent this year, and it was the 6 overall funds, as we explained. Of that money 7 you described, at least $7 billion is federal 8 stimulus money. 9 And yes, I am delighted that the 10 New York representatives of our Congress and 11 our U.S. Senate got New York State that money 12 by voting for the stimulus package. And I 13 feel very strongly that the State of New York 14 should absolutely have taken the money and 15 spent it to increase jobs and increase 16 economic activity and assure that we have 17 adequate funds for our unemployment system. 18 And then of course you know that 19 several billion involve debt service. 20 So again, All Funds versus General 21 Funds, this is the lowest rate of increase in 22 the General Fund that the state budget has 23 seen. I actually have a chart here for you in 24 endless years. One second and I will get the

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(518) 371-8910 1 chart. I have the chart. 2 So spending increase over inflation 3 is negative 2.1 this year. It was .07 last 4 year. If we just go back to 2003-2004, we saw 5 an 8.3 percent increase, spending over 6 inflation. In 2004-2005, a 2 percent increase 7 spending over inflation. 2005-2006, a 8 6.3 percent increase. 2006-2007, a 9 7.5 percent increase. And then again 10 2007-2008, when Governor Spitzer began, we saw 11 the trend start to go down. 12 So you always see some increase in 13 spending. You have to balance out, Senator -- 14 excuse me. Through you, Mr. President, you 15 have to balance out the needs for the expenses 16 of the state and the revenue. But in fact, 17 we've been trending down. 18 And so even in the context of all 19 the realities facing us today, I think we're 20 doing a pretty good job historically. 21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 22 Senator Krueger yield to another question? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield to

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator DeFrancisco? 2 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, 3 Mr. President, of course. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 5 Senator yields. 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 7 Krueger, it's been established through my 8 questions of Senator Carl Kruger that the 9 increase is between $12 billion and 10 $13 billion in spending over last year. You 11 just indicated that there was $7 billion of 12 stimulus money that was spent this year. 13 Is it fair to say, then, the 14 additional $5 billion was state funds, 15 additional state funds that were spent in this 16 year's budget? 17 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Let me just 18 double-check one answer for you. 19 Thank you. Well, I don't have the 20 exact numbers. And my understanding is a 21 significant percentage of that $5 billion is 22 debt service. And some of that is also 23 additional federal stimulus that went -- we 24 were pass-throughs to the localities on that

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(518) 371-8910 1 money. 2 So no, I don't believe there was 3 $5 billion of new spending of the taxpayers' 4 dollars in this year's budget. 5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 6 Krueger, is debt service -- would you yield to 7 another question? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 9 Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield? 10 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, 11 Mr. President, I certainly do. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 13 Senator yields. 14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Is debt 15 service that's spent -- part of this money was 16 debt service -- is that paid by the taxpayers 17 of the State of New York? 18 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes. In 19 fact, because of the budgets that were passed 20 by this house year in and year out before we 21 in fact became the majority, we owe the money 22 and we have a legal obligation to pay that 23 debt. 24 And so each time the State of

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(518) 371-8910 1 New York makes a decision to borrow, we in 2 fact obligate ourselves to make the payments 3 and we obligate the taxpayers to pay that 4 interest on debt service, yes, sir. 5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 6 Senator Krueger yield to another question? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 8 Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield? 9 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, 10 Mr. President, I do. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 12 Senator yields. 13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: How much 14 new debt service is in this particular budget? 15 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: One moment. 16 I will see if I can you the answer. 17 And I know that it's a trick 18 question, because we have of course -- we have 19 off-budget debt. No, no, I didn't mean that 20 you were trying to -- I'm sorry. Excuse me. 21 Mr. President, through you, I did not mean to 22 be jovial. 23 There is off-budget through the 24 authorities as well as on-budget. There is

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(518) 371-8910 1 personal income tax-obligated debt, and there 2 are other sources of debt, and there are 3 volume cap limits, et cetera. So it's not one 4 answer, which is why it might take a few 5 minutes. 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator, I 7 had asked staff that was sitting here a moment 8 ago -- here he is. He's all ready to go. I 9 had a question, and I asked him a couple of 10 days ago -- if you would respond to another 11 question. Would you respond to another 12 question? 13 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Instead of 14 the question you just asked me? I'm sorry, 15 Mr. President, I'm confused. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator DeFrancisco, are you asking Senator 18 Krueger to answer your question that you asked 19 a few moments ago, or are you withdrawing that 20 question and replacing it with an additional 21 question? 22 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No, I'm 23 withdrawing that, I'm sorry. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Okay.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 2 Krueger, would you respond to another 3 question? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 5 Senator Krueger, do you yield? 6 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, 7 Mr. President, I will respond to a different 8 question. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 10 Senator yields. 11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: My question 12 is -- and I gave this question two days ago to 13 a member of the majority staff. Can you tell 14 me what the total amount of stimulus money 15 that was received from the federal government 16 and the amount of that stimulus money that's 17 being used this year and what it's being used 18 for? Because I couldn't find it in any 19 documents. 20 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Apparently 21 we have it for you. One moment. I wasn't 22 asked that question earlier, but we're going 23 to get that for you. 24 Seven billion, all funds, was

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(518) 371-8910 1 counted towards our budget this year from the 2 federal stimulus. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Okay. And 4 the second -- would she continue to yield? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Do you 6 continue to yield, Senator Krueger? 7 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Can I edit 8 my answer? 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Okay. 10 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 11 There was an additional 1.3 billion 12 that was the retroactive federal stimulus pre 13 the beginning of this new state fiscal year 14 that we used to help fill the gap remaining in 15 the 2008-2009 budget. And then there's the 16 7 billion going forward. 17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 18 Senator Krueger yield to another question? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Do you 20 continue to yield? 21 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, I 22 certainly will, Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 24 Senator yields.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Just so 2 it's clear in my mind, what is the total 3 stimulus money received? I don't care if it's 4 retroactive, proactive, or however you want to 5 characterize it. The amount of that used this 6 year, and what's left for next year. 7 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Okay. So 8 again, while I'm asking staff to get the 9 answer for everyone's edification, technically 10 the federal stimulus package was a 27-month 11 stimulus package, so it in effect overlapped 12 three of our fiscal years. So again, we 13 discussed the retroactive monies applied to 14 the budget year that's technically ended, and 15 then we have this year and then we have next 16 year. 17 Now, to add to the complications, 18 some of the federal stimulus money, we are a 19 pass-through to the localities, so it's not in 20 our budget to control the decisions that are 21 made. And some of that money is within our 22 budget, although mostly within limited uses. 23 Then, finally, there is competitive 24 federal stimulus money that the State of

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(518) 371-8910 1 New York can apply for, and in quite a large 2 number of categories. And so we are hoping 3 there will be even more. So even whatever I 4 answer I offered you today, I think -- we hope 5 we will see additional money in the months to 6 come as New York State can apply for those 7 funds. And some of those are matching funds, 8 so it will require us to pay something to get 9 something. So it also would add to the 10 complications. 11 But to deal with the original 12 question, we believe an estimate for the three 13 years minus any competitive funds we might get 14 is 24 billion. But again, as I explained, 15 it's a little bit of a gray-area question 16 because we haven't quite factored in what we 17 might be able to get and what we would have to 18 contribute towards getting it. 19 For example, some of the programs 20 are a 60/40 match or an 80/20 match, and we 21 the Legislature would have to decide whether 22 we think it is worthwhile to put up the 23 20 cents or 40 cents on the dollar in order to 24 draw down the federal stimulus money.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 2 Senator Krueger yield to another question? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield? 5 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, 6 Mr. President, I yield to another question. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 8 Senator yields. 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: So over the 10 next 20-some-odd months your best estimate is 11 that there will be $24 billion available from 12 the federal government; correct? 13 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Minus the 14 7. Right? Or again, we've already accounted 15 for some of it. Right? 16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: All right. 17 Would you yield to another question? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator Krueger? 20 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I'm sorry. 21 Yes, Mr. President, I will yield to another 22 question. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 24 Senator yields.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: So the 2 $24 billion you estimate or the best estimate 3 of your finance people is what we get from the 4 federal government, and we've used in this 5 budget $7 billion of that, less than 6 one-third. Correct? 7 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, I am 8 told that we assumed that and you assumed that 9 in your budget plan also. 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 11 Senator Krueger yield to another question? 12 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, 13 Mr. President, I do. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 15 Senator yields. 16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 17 Krueger, first of all, how many billions do 18 you estimate that all the taxes -- personal 19 income tax and all the other taxes that are in 20 this budget -- will generate towards balancing 21 the budget that you've presented? 22 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: The new 23 revenue proposals as opposed to the current, 24 existing?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: The new 2 revenue proposals. PIT and all the others. 3 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: $5.1 4 billion. 5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: $5.1 6 billion? 7 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, sir. 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: And will 9 Senator Krueger yield again. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 11 Senator, do you continue to yield? 12 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, 13 Mr. President, I do. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 15 Senator yields. 16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: And in this 17 budget, of the $7 billion that you used, 18 there's approximately $1 billion of money that 19 is placed in the budget that is not specified 20 for what it is going to be used for; correct? 21 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr. 22 President, through you, if I could clarify by 23 asking a question. 24 Are we discussing the dry

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(518) 371-8910 1 appropriation in the bill that was discussed 2 last night -- excuse me, two, three nights 3 ago? Is that the reference? Could you give 4 me the cite? 5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: It's the 6 $1 billion appropriation, and the question -- 7 which is available in this budget to be spent 8 in some manner, shape or form. 9 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I'm sorry, 10 I believe that is the federal contingent 11 $1 billion that we discussed on the floor the 12 other night. 13 And again, it is a dry 14 appropriation. We are not spending that 15 money, nor could we unless we revisited with 16 the Legislature, so it's -- for a vote and 17 approval. So it's not actually part of the 18 totals we're discussing here. 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 20 Senator Krueger yield to another question? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Senator, do you yield? 23 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, 24 Mr. President, I do.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 2 Senator yields. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Is that 4 $1 billion that you say you'll have to revisit 5 with the Legislature, is that $1 billion being 6 used to balance the budget that you're 7 presenting in this case -- in this state, to 8 the state in this bill? 9 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Through 10 you, Mr. President, no. And we're not 11 authorized to do so. It's defined in federal 12 law as emergency funds, and so it could not be 13 used for purposes of gap-filling in the normal 14 circumstance of our budget at this time. 15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 16 Senator Krueger yield for a question? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 18 Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield? 19 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr. 20 President, of course I yield. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 22 Senator yields. 23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 24 Krueger, what is the purpose of having a

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(518) 371-8910 1 $1 billion number in a budget that is not 2 being used to balance the budget and that 3 cannot be utilized until approved by the 4 Legislature for some specific use? What is 5 the purpose of that being in the budget? 6 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: It's my 7 understanding that Section 53 of -- I'm just 8 finding the citation -- state law requires 9 that it's a very limited definition of what we 10 could use emergency funds for and what would 11 be required by the Legislature. 12 And apparently this is put into the 13 budget every four years. So it is a -- every 14 year, pardon me. Excuse me. It's put into 15 the budget every year. It's not a new 16 phenomenon or something being slid into the 17 budget, Mr. President. 18 And again, it would require further 19 action by the state to be able to access that 20 money and what specifically it could be used 21 for. It's very limited. So again, it's an 22 emergency fund dry appropriation. We have 23 many dry appropriations in the state budget 24 from year to year.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 2 Senator Krueger yield to another question? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield? 5 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, 6 Mr. President, I continue to yield. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 8 Senator yields. 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: If this 10 money is in the budget each year, a 11 billion-dollar dry appropriation, why is it 12 identified in this particular budget as 13 federal stimulus money? 14 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I'm sorry, 15 I've been informed that it's not federal 16 stimulus money, it's exception to the federal 17 stimulus. 18 It is a dry appropriation of 19 emergency funds as is put in each year. We 20 did, for example, use this money after the 21 9/11 crisis, and so we found a way through the 22 Legislature to choose to turn a dry 23 appropriation into emergency funding for that 24 emergency.

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(518) 371-8910 1 But then again, each year it's 2 there. And since it's there each year, 3 Mr. President, it's my understanding that 4 there isn't a correlation to the federal 5 stimulus, because obviously the federal 6 stimulus starts now. And this is something 7 that has existed in law year after year, 8 although I don't know what year it started, 9 although obviously it existed in 2001 when we 10 dealt with it for the 9/11 crisis. 11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 12 Senator Krueger yield to another question? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield? 15 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, 16 Mr. President, I happily yield. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 18 Senator yields. 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 20 Krueger, was there any prohibition of using 21 the $7 billion federal stimulus money that is 22 being used this year in the budget, or any of 23 the remaining federal stimulus money, to be 24 used in lieu of these tax increases that are

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(518) 371-8910 1 in this budget? 2 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Through 3 you, Mr. President, yes, there are many 4 prohibitions. 5 My understanding is that the 6 federal stimulus package was, by and large, 7 lined out for specific items and that there 8 could not be changes in use in the vast 9 majority of these monies by a state 10 legislature or by federal elected officials in 11 their home state. 12 So for example, there's a targeted 13 amount for infrastructure and energy, and in 14 fact within that I see about 16 different 15 categories that are suballocated that could 16 not be moved around. Then there's health and 17 human services, there are at least 20 18 categories I see that could not be moved 19 around by the State Legislature. Education, 20 seven categories. 21 And in fact, a significant amount 22 of the federal stimulus for the education 23 monies were given directly to every local 24 school district. So while it appears as the

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(518) 371-8910 1 State of New York's money, it in fact has been 2 targeted very carefully and specifically by 3 the federal government for education, with 4 approximately $1.1 billion this year coming to 5 the state and a significant amount going to 6 our local districts. 7 Then there's also public safety 8 funds, approximately four categories. So -- 9 and then there's of course the FMAP funds, 10 which there is some flexibility with. But as 11 we know, we've had many discussions here on 12 the floor, and there's even been great 13 consternation that we moved some of the FMAP 14 funds into a more general-purpose use rather 15 than remaining in healthcare. 16 So to answer your question, most of 17 the federal stimulus monies could not be moved 18 around to address our gap problem. 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 20 Senator Krueger yield to one or two more 21 questions? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield? 24 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I would be

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(518) 371-8910 1 happy to yield to one or two more questions, 2 Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 4 Senator will be happy to yield. 5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 6 Krueger, rather than belabor this point, I 7 would request that we be provided a breakdown 8 of the $24 billion -- and this is what I had 9 asked for a couple of days ago -- a breakdown 10 of the $24 billion as to what was spent, 11 what's remaining, and what is restricted that 12 has to be used for a specific purpose rather 13 than could be used for whatever purpose. 14 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr. 15 President, I would happy to do so and would 16 just like to direct all of my colleagues to 17 the Governor's website, which has the 18 information directly up online, so it is all 19 line-itemed out. 20 So I appreciate the fact that the 21 Governor's office has done us that service. 22 But I will happily give it to you as well. 23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 24 Senator Krueger yield to another question?

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Krueger, another question? 3 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, 4 because I have to make up to Senator 5 DeFrancisco for apparently choosing Senator 6 Libous over him earlier. 7 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 8 Krueger -- I won't go there. 9 (Laughter.) 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 11 Krueger, can you tell me on that website does 12 it indicate what agencies are using this money 13 from the federal stimulus fund? And does it 14 say what's restricted and what's not 15 restricted? 16 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr. 17 President, through you, no, I don't believe I 18 saw the itemization that way. 19 Although in fact the NCSL website, 20 which I know we all have access to, the 21 National Conference of State Legislatures, has 22 done a very good job of breaking it down even 23 further, not by state but by category within 24 the federal stimulus. So in fact what it

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(518) 371-8910 1 helps you do is see which federal agency is 2 writing which regulations about how the money 3 can be used or how it is restricted. 4 And so then it does take a little 5 more work, Mr. President. But if you know, 6 for example, that the federal regs for certain 7 funds are through HHS, you can then separate 8 and tease out what in the State of New York 9 might be through the Department of Health and 10 what might be through the Office of Temporary 11 and Disability Assistance. 12 There are some monies where the 13 regulations are coming through the federal 14 Department of Transportation, where again you 15 can tease out and have to make -- perhaps call 16 the agencies and ask. But you can figure out 17 which of the state agencies -- for example, 18 State Department of Transportation -- those 19 monies would be going through. Education I 20 think is clear it's through the State 21 Education Department. The public safety 22 funds, obviously there are a number of 23 different state agencies that it might go 24 through.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And again, I agree, to make it more 2 complicated -- I don't think the federal 3 government did it with this intent -- some of 4 the monies go directly to the localities. So 5 even if you're asking on behalf of your own 6 Senate district, you might need to be able to 7 play out or tease out, so to speak, what from 8 the federal stimulus is coming to the State of 9 New York directly and through state agencies, 10 what is going from the federal government 11 technically to your local agencies. 12 And so I think for each county or 13 each district, it would be different. I know 14 in New York City I have, I suppose, the 15 advantage of we have a city group of agencies 16 where we can go directly to them. I don't 17 know if there's an exact parallel in each of 18 the counties to the situation with the city 19 government. 20 So I agree, the more fine-tuned you 21 want your answers, the more complex the 22 question becomes. 23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 24 Senator Krueger yield to another question?

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield? 3 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: You said 4 one or two. Is this the third? 5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: It may be 6 more. Because of that answer, I can't -- I've 7 got to get an answer that I can follow. 8 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr. 9 President, I am happy to answer the Senator's 10 questions. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: You do 12 continue to yield. 13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 14 Krueger, I'm not going to go to some state 15 legislators' website or the federal 16 government's website. What I'm asking you, as 17 vice chair of Finance, simply -- 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator Carl Kruger, why do you rise? 20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Point of 21 order, Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Please 23 state your point of order. 24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: As I

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(518) 371-8910 1 indicated previously when we discussed another 2 aspect of this budget, the Finance Committee 3 is in the process -- as we know, this is a lot 4 of money. It's very complicated, very 5 confusing. But we're trying to get through 6 this. 7 And we will have for the Minority a 8 detailed breakdown to the best of our ability 9 of the flow of these stimulus dollars that's 10 forthcoming, and it will be made available in 11 the very near future. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 13 you, Senator Carl Kruger. 14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you. 15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 16 Senator Carl Kruger yield to a question? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 18 Senator DeFrancisco, are you withdrawing your 19 request of Senator Liz Krueger to yield at 20 this time? 21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I have one 22 other -- just a follow-up to what he just 23 said. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Carl Kruger, do you yield to Senator 2 DeFrancisco? 3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 5 Senator Kruger yields. 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 7 Kruger, you understand that the budget of the 8 State of New York is due before April 1, 9 correct, and that we're on April 3rd. And you 10 say forthcoming at some point in the very near 11 future we'll have a breakdown of the federal 12 stimulus money? Is that what you're telling 13 us? 14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 15 you, Mr. President, I'm very well aware that 16 the budget was supposed to be passed by 17 April 1st, and we made every attempt to do 18 that. And as you're well aware, we wanted to 19 expedite this process, and we did not get the 20 level of cooperation that we would have 21 sought. 22 Notwithstanding, notwithstanding, 23 as I said, this is a lot of money, it's very, 24 very complicated. You can see all these

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(518) 371-8910 1 pages, all this material. We're going to be 2 going through it, and we will get you the 3 breakdown that you asked for. 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Thank you. 5 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you. 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: One last 7 question for Senator Krueger, please, if 8 she'll yield. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Which 10 Senator Kruger? Senator Liz Krueger? 11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 12 Liz. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Liz Krueger, do you yield? 15 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: It's so 16 hard to tell us apart. 17 Yes, Mr. President, I'm happy to 18 yield. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 20 Senator Liz Krueger yields. 21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 22 Krueger, earlier you said that the $1 billion 23 was a dry appropriation and had nothing to do 24 with the stimulus money. I'm going to refer

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(518) 371-8910 1 you to the Public Protection Budget, page 319, 2 where this $1 billion of nonstimulus money is 3 listed. 4 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: One moment. 5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Page 319, 6 Public Protection. 7 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 8 Mr. President. I found the section of the 9 bill. 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: The 11 question is this. If this is not $1 billion 12 from the federal stimulus money, can you tell 13 me why this is the way this section is worded? 14 "The sum of $1 billion is hereby appropriated 15 solely for transfer by the Governor to funds 16 established to account for revenues from the 17 federal government in order to meet 18 unanticipated or emergency expenditures 19 pursuant to Section 53 of the State Finance 20 Law." 21 And it goes on to say: "In 22 addition, to the extent necessary to spend 23 monies available from the American Recovery 24 and Reinvestment Act of 2009, funds

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(518) 371-8910 1 appropriated herein may be suballocated 2 subject to the approval of the Director of the 3 Budget" -- it doesn't say the Legislature -- 4 "to any state department, agency or public 5 authority for purposes in the American 6 Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009." 7 And you told me that this has 8 nothing to do with the federal stimulus money. 9 Do you want to change your answer? 10 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: No, I 11 don't. Mr. President, through you. 12 I might agree that Department of 13 Budget didn't write this well or clearly. 14 It's my understanding that if you go back 15 previous years in this section of the law, you 16 will find the first sentence: "The sum of 17 1 million is hereby appropriated solely for 18 transfer by the Governor to funds established 19 to account for revenues from the federal 20 government in order to meet unanticipated or 21 emergency expenses pursuant to Section 53 of 22 the State Finance Law." And again, that 23 predates the federal stimulus law. So 24 apparently that language is in each year.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Then this year, they added an 2 additional paragraph: "In addition, to the 3 extent necessary to spend monies available 4 from the American Recovery and Reinvestment 5 Act of 2009" -- what we call the stimulus 6 package -- "funds appropriated herein may be 7 suballocated subject to the approval of the 8 Director of the Budget for any state 9 department, agency, or public authority. For 10 the purpose in the American Recovery and 11 Reinvestment Act of 2009, funds appropriated 12 herein shall be subject to all applicable 13 reporting and accounting requirements." 14 It's transitional language. And I 15 agree, Senator, that they could have written 16 that better and clearer. But again, it's my 17 understanding the billion-dollar dry 18 appropriation in this section of law mirrors 19 previous years. And then the following 20 paragraph was added in relationship to the 21 federal stimulus money. 22 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: On the bill 23 very briefly, please. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator DeFrancisco, on the bill. 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I think 3 this question-and-answer session pretty much 4 indicated how difficult it is for anyone, 5 especially the Minority, to participate in a 6 process to come up with a good budget. 7 For Senator Kruger to tell us that 8 in the near future we'll learn where the 9 federal stimulus money was used and where it 10 went because it's a very complicated thing 11 because we didn't cooperate is -- is -- 12 doesn't make any sense. We weren't asked to 13 cooperate. So what cooperation was needed 14 from us for them to determine what federal 15 stimulus money went in and where it was used? 16 I mean, how do you determine that 17 you need to tax people or take away STAR 18 rebate checks or whatever without knowing what 19 you're using federal stimulus money for? 20 There is much of the money -- and I can't say 21 chapter and verse -- that is unrestricted, 22 that could have been used in lieu of raising 23 taxes, and that could have been done. 24 So, secondly, I don't know how much

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(518) 371-8910 1 clearer the Budget Office had to write this 2 section of the bill. To suggest that they 3 could have written it clearer by taking out 4 the words "American Recovery and Reinvestment 5 Act," which Senator Krueger told us this 6 $1 billion had nothing to do with, does that 7 make any sense whatsoever to anybody? 8 The fact of the matter is there is 9 a billion dollars that is unallocated that is 10 not subject to the Legislature, it's subject 11 to the approval of the Director of Budget and 12 not the Legislature. 13 With respect to the economists that 14 estimate 15,000 jobs are being lost, I don't 15 know what organization Senator Krueger 16 referred to that we were relying on. We're 17 relying on the Empire Center, which we did not 18 hire. E.J. McMahon, who's done many of these 19 analyses, that center has done it. They talk 20 about 15,500 jobs as a result of increased 21 taxes. 22 Stimulus money is supposed to be 23 used to stimulate the economy. By taking 24 $2,400 to $3,500 out of the pockets of

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(518) 371-8910 1 New Yorkers doesn't stimulate a thing. But if 2 you had avoided those taxes by using the 3 stimulus money, you would have been able to 4 legitimately keep more money in people's 5 pockets. 6 And by the way, Senator Krueger 7 quoted from Mayor Bloomberg. I don't know 8 when it was; several months ago, a year ago, 9 whatever. The fact of the matter is Mayor 10 Bloomberg came out against this personal 11 income tax increase, as far as I understand 12 it. So you can quote what anybody says that's 13 not current and come out with any answer you 14 would like. 15 Lastly, we went and checked, our 16 staff member checked the Governor's website to 17 determine if what Senator Krueger said about 18 the federal stimulus money, all the details 19 being on his website explaining all this -- 20 well, there is still no financial plan on the 21 Department of Budget's website indicating 22 monies coming in, monies going out, and 23 explaining where we are with the budget at 24 this very moment.

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(518) 371-8910 1 How do you possibly make wise 2 decisions and determine priorities by this 3 process? You simply don't. It's like -- 4 it's -- saying it's not transparent doesn't do 5 this process justice. We can't figure out -- 6 and I don't think anybody on that side of the 7 aisle has a clue either -- what happened in 8 these closed-door discussions. 9 So I guess what I'm saying is that 10 we should not tax people if we have 11 alternatives. We should keep the money in 12 their pockets. And we certainly have 13 alternatives, or at least you can't say we 14 don't have alternatives, because you can't 15 even tell us how much stimulus money is left 16 over, what we've used, and what's available to 17 avoid taxes. And we're past the budget 18 deadline. 19 So I'm going to vote against this 20 bill when the time comes. 21 Thank you, Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 23 you, Senator DeFrancisco. 24 Senator Griffo.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR GRIFFO: Thank you, 2 Mr. President. Would Senator Krueger yield 3 for some questions? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 5 Senator Krueger, do you yield? 6 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I'd be 7 honored to yield to Senator Griffo. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 9 Senator Krueger will yield and be honored. 10 SENATOR GRIFFO: Thank you, 11 Senator. 12 Are you familiar with the closeout 13 numbers from this year, total closeout for the 14 budget? 15 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: One moment. 16 I'm not sure if they've completely closed out 17 the numbers in the budget for this year. 18 They have not closed out the 19 numbers for the budget this year, sir. My 20 understanding is the Department of Budget has 21 not been able to do that yet. 22 SENATOR GRIFFO: In one estimate, 23 we're looking at about $121.5 billion. Would 24 you agree that that's an estimate?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I'm sorry, 2 did you say billion or million? 3 SENATOR GRIFFO: 119.7 to 121 are 4 the numbers that -- 5 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I believe 6 that's the 2009-2010 projected closeout 7 numbers. No? I'm sorry. 8 SENATOR GRIFFO: No. 9 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I think the 10 121 number you're referencing is the 2009-2010 11 Executive Budget proposal. The 119 I believe 12 was some type of -- oh, yeah, thank you. The 13 projected closeout number for 2008-2009 was 14 119.8 million. 15 But again, as we know, budget 16 documents are estimates, and so you start the 17 year with a projection of what you'll spend 18 and what will come in, and then you close out 19 the year after the year is done. So it was an 20 estimate as of a certain date, and the 21 Division of Budget has not yet closed out the 22 2008-2009 numbers. So I truly can't answer 23 whether I think it's a good guess or not. 24 SENATOR GRIFFO: Thank you.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Will the Senator continue to yield? 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield? 4 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, I 5 certainly do, Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 7 Senator yields. 8 SENATOR GRIFFO: Well, if we look 9 at all these numbers, we know that budgets are 10 blueprints and fluid. 11 That number of 119.6 was an 12 estimate. The estimate of this budget moving 13 forward is, I believe, over 132; correct? 14 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: In all 15 funds, yes, sir. 16 SENATOR GRIFFO: Will the Senator 17 continue to yield? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator, do you yield? 20 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, 21 Mr. President, I do. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 23 Senator yields. 24 SENATOR GRIFFO: Would you not

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(518) 371-8910 1 say that if you look at the comparison between 2 those two numbers there is a significant 3 increase, obviously? 4 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes. And 5 again, as I explained -- 6 SENATOR GRIFFO: Will the Senator 7 continue to yield? 8 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: -- it 9 includes the stimulus monies on top of the 10 other realities for our state. 11 SENATOR GRIFFO: Will the Senator 12 continue to yield? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator, do you continue to yield? 15 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, 16 Mr. President, I yield. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 18 Senator continues to yield. 19 SENATOR GRIFFO: If you look at 20 stimulus money, you described it over a 21 27-month period. Correct? 22 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, sir. 23 SENATOR GRIFFO: Will the Senator 24 continue to yield?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, I do, 2 Mr. President. 3 SENATOR GRIFFO: If you look at 4 these figures over that 27 months -- and we've 5 seen that there's a lot of confusion. And 6 Senator Kruger, the chair of Finance, 7 indicated that more numbers would be 8 forthcoming. We referred to websites. 9 My concern is many of the programs 10 that you're looking at, such as in the 11 Department of Labor, maybe on unemployment 12 insurance -- in order to become eligible for 13 federal funds, you will have to either expand 14 or extend benefits. Correct? 15 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, that 16 is part of the federal requirements. 17 SENATOR GRIFFO: Will the Senator 18 continue to yield? 19 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, 20 Mr. President, I do. 21 SENATOR GRIFFO: As a result of 22 that, when you look at that increased 23 spending, the question would be what happens 24 after 27 months. Because you are going to

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(518) 371-8910 1 have this new spending, and yet we're not 2 making any provisions here of how you're going 3 to handle that spending that the state is 4 going to have to absorb when the stimulus 5 disappears. 6 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Through 7 you, Mr. President. I know that all of us, 8 including the 19 million New Yorkers we 9 represent, are certainly hoping that at the 10 end of the 27-month period we are economically 11 in a better place with fewer people needing 12 unemployment benefits. 13 And I suppose the State of New York 14 could have said, to the federal government: 15 No, thank you, we won't pay unemployment to 16 our people who are unemployed during this 17 economic downturn. So we could have said no 18 to those funds. 19 I feel very strongly that we should 20 have and must have accepted those funds. Can 21 you imagine actually calling for this 22 Legislature to tell unemployed people who we 23 know can't get jobs in this economy that we 24 were going to turn down unemployment benefits

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(518) 371-8910 1 or keep them on a shorter time period for 2 unemployment benefits at a lower level? I, 3 sir, would not want to do that. 4 I suppose I will ask you, would you 5 want to have shorter and lower unemployment 6 benefits in an economic crisis? 7 SENATOR GRIFFO: Will the Senator 8 continue to yield? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator, do you continue to yield? 11 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, 12 Mr. President, I yield. 13 SENATOR GRIFFO: Senator, we all 14 understand that there are a number of programs 15 that would require New York State to make 16 decisions on that ultimately could have a 17 financial impact going forward. And many 18 opportunities to discuss that in public didn't 19 exist. 20 I would quote, again, the State 21 Comptroller, who said that the danger in 22 New York is that we could end up right back 23 where we started, with huge budget gaps and 24 unsustainable levels of spending. Would you

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(518) 371-8910 1 disagree with Comptroller DiNapoli? 2 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I think he 3 made that statement in a broader context. 4 I suppose I would cite President 5 Obama that we need to invest in the economy 6 today to get our people back to work and to 7 ensure that our people are cared for until our 8 economy kick-starts and they can get back to 9 work. 10 It is true, sir, any decision we 11 make here leads to the next question, what 12 happens if. What happens if the economy 13 continues to go down beyond 27 months? 14 Historically when that has happened, the 15 federal government has come through with 16 additional commitments of extended 17 unemployment benefits. And so in each of the 18 most recent cycles of economic downturn, we 19 have been able to count on the federal 20 government to provide an additional length of 21 time on unemployment benefits and in fact to 22 refill our sometimes at-risk coffers to be 23 able to pay unemployment. 24 I don't have a crystal ball, so I

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(518) 371-8910 1 don't know whether we will need that at the 2 end of the 27-month period or whether we can 3 count on the federal government. But 4 personally I believe that President Obama and 5 the U.S. Congress will not leave the states 6 out there hanging if we continue to have an 7 unemployment crisis. 8 SENATOR GRIFFO: Will the Senator 9 continue to yield? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 11 Senator Krueger, do you yield? 12 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, 13 Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 15 Senator yields. 16 SENATOR GRIFFO: I think it's 17 beyond the Department of Labor issues, it's 18 for agencies across the State of New York. 19 And I think the Comptroller, who 20 many people supported in the appointment, 21 obviously we need to be sensitized to and be 22 attentive to, I would think. Do you not 23 agree? 24 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr.

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(518) 371-8910 1 President, through you. I have the highest 2 respect for the Comptroller. And in fact, the 3 Comptroller has a legal obligation to make us 4 aware of the fiscal situation of the state and 5 to make projections on the revenues expected 6 and the expenditures on the balance of the 7 budget. 8 So I do not envy the Comptroller 9 having to say we're in an at-risk situation, 10 we don't have the monies coming in. I suspect 11 that it is not very different, from what I 12 have read, than what 49 other comptrollers are 13 saying. 14 And of course we know we have the 15 same situation at the federal level, where the 16 dollars we are investing in stimulus, through 17 any number of bills moving through Congress, 18 is translating into an increased deficit for 19 the federal government. And yes, that is a 20 risk in every way. 21 Of course we might remember that 22 when President Clinton became the President of 23 the United States, we had an enormous federal 24 deficit. We happily brought it down to almost

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(518) 371-8910 1 nothing during his eight years in the White 2 House. 3 Of course, we grew that federal 4 deficit enormously during the Bush 5 administration. And so we found ourselves and 6 President Obama found himself faced already 7 with a large deficit, needing to make the 8 right economic decisions for the country 9 involving further increasing our deficit. 10 You know, but again, there's an ebb 11 and flow. And I feel fairly confident that if 12 we make the right actions federally and at the 13 state level, we will be able to jump-start our 14 economy. And while these are years of, I 15 suppose -- you know, you call them famine, we 16 will again see years of feast where we will 17 shift the dynamic. 18 I would hope, by the way, Senator 19 Griffo -- and I think you agree with me -- 20 that one of the smart planning things the 21 State of New York ought to do is to have a 22 larger emergency reserve fund available, 23 recognizing that there are bad economic times 24 and good economic times.

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(518) 371-8910 1 In the bad economic times, more 2 people need to turn to us for assistance, such 3 as unemployment benefits. And then there are 4 good economic times, and these should be the 5 times where we raise some additional revenue 6 to put away for a rainy day, to have as 7 emergency funds. 8 We all know our economy is cyclical 9 and we will have good and bad years. So I am 10 hoping that we could work together to move 11 together to move forward with budget proposals 12 that will provide for a larger emergency 13 rainy-day reserve fund for the next time. 14 Because while we all hope there won't be a 15 next time, we know there will be, of course. 16 SENATOR GRIFFO: I would agree 17 that reserve accounts are very important. But 18 I would disagree that we can spend and tax our 19 way out of a recession. 20 And I know neither one of us are 21 economic prognosticators, but you're basing 22 what is taking place in this budget and the 23 27-month period for stimulus, you're looking 24 for an economic miracle.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And while we all want to see the 2 economy improve, I think we need to be 3 practical and realistic here too. And I think 4 that's what the State Comptroller and many 5 fiscal experts and economists are indicating 6 right now. 7 If I can ask the Senator to yield 8 on a couple of other questions. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator, do you continue to yield? 11 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, 12 Mr. President, I yield. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 14 Senator yields. 15 SENATOR GRIFFO: Senator, earlier 16 today we talked about a number of amendments 17 that we had asked for consideration here. And 18 do you recall last year supporting the Warren 19 bill, the Warren bill? 20 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr. 21 President, I need a clarification of what the 22 Warren bill is. 23 SENATOR GRIFFO: It's a piece of 24 legislation that was sponsored by Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Robach and passed this body 61 to nothing, 2 which would ensure that private companies give 3 at least 90 days' notice to employees in 4 companies with over 50. 5 Do you recall that now? 6 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, I'm 7 sorry, I didn't recognize the name. 8 And I believe I was in the Senate 9 at that time, so I believe I did vote for 10 that, yes, sir. 11 SENATOR GRIFFO: Essentially what 12 we're doing here is ensuring -- and we all 13 agreed on this, and it is now statute -- that 14 we should be giving notice before we put 15 people on the streets. 16 Don't you agree that we should be 17 giving the same kind of consideration and 18 respect to public employees before we close 19 their facilities? 20 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr. 21 President, through you. If I am understanding 22 the question correctly, we are discussing the 23 amendment today around the OCFS proposed 24 closings, as was raised in the amendment.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And here's my dilemma. One is my 2 understanding that while we are closing sooner 3 than later, we intend to assure that those 4 workers continue to have jobs and alternative 5 options. We also know that those by and large 6 are empty facilities, or almost empty 7 facilities. 8 So on behalf of the taxpayers of 9 New York State, as I said yesterday and I 10 would say again today, regardless of an 11 economic crisis, we have an obligation to the 12 taxpayers of New York State not to keep 13 underutilized facilities open just for the 14 sake of keeping them open. We have an 15 obligation to be efficient and effective with 16 their monies. 17 And in fact, in the discussions 18 I've had with the Office of Child and Family 19 Services, I've been assured both that the 20 alternative proposals they have made are in 21 the best interests of the children, are in the 22 best interests of the state budget. And in 23 fact they are addressing the concerns of 24 workers having to deal with some kind of

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(518) 371-8910 1 transfer of their job. 2 And I suppose one of the 3 differences in the question you raised prior 4 was that was on private employers and trying 5 to ensure protection of jobs and taxpayers. 6 This is government, and of course government 7 should have as its first priority the best 8 interests of the people of New York. 9 So again, hard budget, hard 10 decisions. I actually think the OCFS plan is 11 a win-win for the children, the state, and the 12 system of child services that we provide with 13 the great workers of the State of New York in 14 those programs. 15 SENATOR GRIFFO: But, Senator 16 Krueger -- will the Senator continue to yield? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 18 Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield? 19 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, I do 20 yield. Please. 21 SENATOR GRIFFO: Through you, 22 Mr. President, don't you believe we should 23 extend the same courtesy to public employees 24 that we're extending in the private sector

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(518) 371-8910 1 right now, for which you voted for? Why would 2 you treat public employees differently? Why 3 would you -- it's just a clause -- regardless 4 of the decision on the facilities, but to 5 remove the notification provision? 6 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 7 Senator Griffo. Through you, Mr. President. 8 It's been clarified that the Warren bill 9 requires what's called Warren notices, which 10 is to make available federal rapid response 11 dollars to be deployed to the companies so 12 that they can support alternative employment 13 through the Department of Labor. So in fact 14 it isn't a parallel situation. 15 And in fact one of the reasons 16 you'd want to pass the law under the Warren 17 Act is to assure that those companies could 18 get additional federal monies which would 19 assist them in helping their workers find 20 alternative jobs. 21 My understanding is there are no 22 parallel opportunities for the state that way. 23 SENATOR GRIFFO: The spirit of 24 law, Senator, does also indicate that we

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(518) 371-8910 1 should be providing notification so that 2 people can't be disrupted and taken out of 3 jobs instantly. That was also part of the 4 intent and the spirit behind the legislation. 5 I'd like to move on in another 6 area. Mr. President, if the Senator would 7 continue to yield. You look good. I know you 8 were getting -- 9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 10 Senator, will you continue to yield? 11 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes, the 12 new Mr. President, happily. 13 SENATOR GRIFFO: Thank you, 14 Mr. President. 15 Senator Krueger, process is 16 something that we've discussed here too which 17 is troubling to me, because I know I had the 18 opportunity to be in your office, your former 19 office, and you had a big sign on the door 20 that talked about "Rules Reform Now," and you 21 went to court to try to change the rules of 22 this procedure. 23 I see our Finance chair is not in 24 the room right now, Senator Kruger. He

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(518) 371-8910 1 indicated earlier, though, that this process 2 was not -- it was expedited because it was 3 without cooperation. But I think yesterday we 4 showed how this conference attempted to 5 cooperate by letting Senator Hassell-Thompson 6 come forward and execute her votes. 7 So are you happy with the fact that 8 the reform process that you have advocated for 9 so long was totally abandoned? 10 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Through 11 you, Mr. President. I'm not sure it's germane 12 to this bill, but I'm happy to answer the 13 question. 14 SENATOR GRIFFO: It's very -- 15 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: No, no, I 16 wasn't going to argue, sir. 17 We have been the majority for less 18 than 90 days, after you were in the majority 19 basically since 1939. 20 No, I don't think this was the 21 ideal process. It doesn't meet my 22 expectations for what we can do to reform the 23 process. 24 We have a -- we made some rules

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(518) 371-8910 1 changes that I was very pleased with at the 2 beginning of the year. We have a rules reform 3 commission, task force, that I believe you are 4 on that is continuing its process and that 5 will get a report released to us all to 6 discuss soon. So I am optimistic we will take 7 additional steps. 8 I asked to be the chair of the 9 Select Committee on Tax and Budget Reform 10 because I fundamentally believe there's an 11 enormous number of things we can do to make 12 our tax system more fair and equitable and 13 meet the 21st-century standards and to address 14 what I believe are not the ideal situations in 15 our budget process, including not using 16 standardized accounting procedures, having a 17 timeline that traps us all in this very short 18 timeline to get something done. I would 19 actually propose we move the budget to a later 20 date. I would explore multiyear budgets for 21 school districts. 22 So no, sir, I support reform, and I 23 will agree that we have not accomplished all 24 my goals yet. Again, I'm not sure anybody

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(518) 371-8910 1 could in their first 90 days when they were 2 faced with a $16.5 billion deficit; an entire 3 transition to the majority, with staffing; a 4 federal stimulus package to try to move as 5 quickly as we can -- to respect Senator 6 DeFrancisco's point, even before we have all 7 the notice from the federal government, we're 8 trying to make sure we get that money out the 9 door. 10 So it's been a busy three months, 11 and we have not gotten there yet. And I am 12 looking forward to working with you to have a 13 better process for next year. 14 So I think that answers the 15 question. 16 SENATOR GRIFFO: Thank you, 17 Senator Krueger. 18 On the bill. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 20 Senator Griffo, on the bill. 21 SENATOR GRIFFO: Thank you, 22 Mr. President. 23 I do believe it's a very important 24 issue in this process because that's what this

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(518) 371-8910 1 budget is all about. And we passed a budget 2 reform bill here in 2007. And I think people 3 of this state expect laws of this state to be 4 abided by and to be enforced. And this year 5 the laws of 2007 were totally ignored and 6 violated, in my opinion. There was no 7 discussion, open discussion of this budget. 8 There was no timetables distributed so people 9 could see what was going to happen when. 10 There were no conference committees. 11 As a result of that, the 12 information has been put on our desks -- 13 thousands of pages, as I indicated yesterday, 14 for individuals to try to examine and to 15 evaluate and to deliberate and debate, because 16 the results of all of these pieces of paper 17 will cost the people of the State of New York 18 much money. 19 Between the taxes and fees that are 20 being imposed upon citizens of this state, the 21 average family can look to be paying up to 22 $2400 a year, and many of them won't 23 understand or appreciate it today. Because 24 until they actually go and pick up a license

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(518) 371-8910 1 or go purchase a beverage, then they'll begin 2 to really feel the impact immediately and 3 understand what was done as a result of this 4 budget process which was so secretive. 5 And I hear the word "crisis" being 6 used, that this was a crisis. Well, if you 7 were in Washington, D.C., and you were talking 8 about national security, I might be able to 9 accept some of that. But today we're talking 10 about a budget process that involves the 11 people's lives of the State of New York. And 12 regardless of the economic crisis, that's more 13 of a reason and a necessity to be able to have 14 an open exchange and dialogue and be able to 15 have prior information in order to do it 16 intelligently. 17 I think the people of the State of 18 New York are outraged at the way you've 19 conducted yourselves. And the fact that words 20 mean nothing and that laws mean nothing. 21 They've been passed, but they've been ignored. 22 How in good conscience can anybody stand there 23 and defend that? I can't understand it. 24 And to say today, I remember

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Carl Kruger said earlier that -- could 2 we have done this budget in a better -- could 3 we done a better job, perhaps. I would say 4 absolutely. It's essential. We have to. 5 And that road, the fork in the 6 road, Senator Kruger, that you talked about 7 during your opening statement, I think we've 8 taken the wrong road in this budget process. 9 And it's unfortunate, and it's going to have a 10 dire impact on the people of this state. 11 We've talked about mandate relief for -- I've 12 only been here two years, and I've heard it 13 two years, talking mandate relief. And it's 14 been before that. What have we done about it? 15 The people want to see something. They don't 16 want to hear it anymore, they want to see it. 17 So there is no mandate relief. 18 We've taken away STAR rebate checks, something 19 that was actually put in people's pockets, 20 money to help them, to alleviate property 21 taxes. But guess what? We haven't done 22 anything to give them genuine property tax 23 relief. We haven't provided any specific 24 proposals in this budget. Instead, we've

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(518) 371-8910 1 talked about the Rockefeller drug laws. Why 2 wasn't there property tax relief put into this 3 budget proposal? 4 Then we looked at Empire Zones and 5 we talk about promoting economic development. 6 And yes, there needs to be reforms to EDZs. 7 But you've abandoned the concept. And the 8 ratios that you've put in are going to be so 9 harmful to the upstate industries that it's 10 going to be impossible for them to survive. 11 I mean, you look at each and every 12 aspect of what was done -- I have another 13 little illustration here with the sunset of 14 the sales tax on aircraft maintenance and 15 repair. We have a major employer in the City 16 of Rome who, because this was not dealt with 17 in this budget process, is in jeopardy. 18 There's over 350 jobs. 19 Yet states around us -- in 20 New Jersey, New Hampshire, Connecticut -- all 21 have taken care of this issue so that their 22 industry can compete. But ours can't. 23 So I think today, when you look at 24 what we've done here, I think it's legitimate

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(518) 371-8910 1 that we're questioning and taking our time. 2 We have cooperated. But we have a role here, 3 and it's essential and necessary that we 4 question. 5 Because coming from some of the 6 conversations and discussions that I've 7 witnessed, I'm worried. Because you don't 8 seem to have the answers, and you're relying a 9 lot on staff to give you some of the material 10 and then to say more will be forthcoming. 11 But this budget has to be put in 12 place now. And the people of this state need 13 to know what to expect and what they're going 14 to be facing. 15 And as I indicated earlier, I think 16 the problem is going to be when they're 17 actually out there beginning to pay these 18 bills. That's when there will be a price to 19 pay and there will be a consequence. And I 20 hope the people of the New York State will 21 remember that we stood here and tried to not 22 only examine but to question and provide new 23 alternatives and better alternatives than what 24 we are experiencing here today.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And I think that, you know, there 2 is no good here, it's just bad and ugly. And 3 I will tell you something, that as we look at 4 this particular document and what we have to 5 experience in the future, I'm truly concerned. 6 And I know that there's no way that I can see 7 anybody capable or willing to accept this. 8 So I will be voting no. 9 Thank you, Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 11 you, Senator Griffo. 12 Senator Padavan. 13 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, 14 Mr. President. 15 I'm not going to ask any questions, 16 so let me put your mind at ease there, because 17 so far it's been like throwing jello up 18 against the wall. It just slides down and you 19 don't get very much out of it. 20 The fact remains during the 21 dialogue that did take place here there was 22 reference to the fact that you can develop 23 economic models to draw any conclusion you 24 wish. And I think the discussion centered

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(518) 371-8910 1 about the loss of jobs that this budget would 2 produce. 3 Yes, economic models can be skewed 4 in one direction or the other. But the bottom 5 line is the bottom line. And there is one 6 economic principle that has stood the test of 7 time that is now being loudly touted in 8 Washington, and it was generated by a 9 gentleman whose name was John Maynard Keynes. 10 And Keynesian economics has a 11 fundamental precept associated with it, and 12 that precept is that during bad times -- when 13 there is a depression, when there is high 14 unemployment -- that the last thing you want 15 to do is to reduce disposal income, the 16 available money in a macro sense that's out 17 there for people to spend. 18 So when you talk about these tax 19 increases in a very, very cavalier way and 20 say, well, it doesn't really mean that much, 21 and so on, you're dead wrong. It means a 22 great deal. 23 Now, in the City of New York, the 24 mayor communicated with us on this issue. And

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(518) 371-8910 1 he pointed out that the very tax categories 2 that you're talking about -- folks on an 3 individual basis making $200,000 and going up 4 the ladder -- represent more than half of the 5 revenue, income tax revenue generated from the 6 City of New York. 7 He goes on to point out that many 8 of these people are mobile. And all you have 9 to do is look across the Hudson at all of 10 those apartments and co-ops and condos being 11 built there, and reflect back right after 2001 12 how many of them fled across the Hudson over 13 to Jersey, to know that that's not just a 14 hypothetical but is a reality already. 15 He indicates that the city would be 16 losing, based on these increases, at a minimum 17 $3.5 billion in revenue. A staggering sum, in 18 my view, $3.5 billion. 19 So therefore, Senator, I suggest to 20 you when you refer to these increases in 21 income taxes and talk about the minimal 22 percentages that you outlined, I'm afraid that 23 you're being somewhat disingenuous. The fact 24 remains, it will have a negative impact -- it

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(518) 371-8910 1 will have a negative impact on your city, on 2 your constituents. 3 You know, when you talk about 4 $200,000 in your area, you can get a 5 one-bedroom apartment and pay $3,000 or $4,000 6 a month rent. Take that right off the top. 7 And then after you pay city income taxes and 8 all the other taxes in the City of New York, 9 and a variety of other expenditures that are 10 unique to the city and so on, that money 11 becomes less and less available in terms of 12 its net amount to that taxpayer. 13 Now, one of the other areas that 14 you mentioned -- in passing, I guess -- where 15 do you suggest we get the money to offset our 16 budgetary needs if we do not have these tax 17 increases? 18 And several Senators have brought 19 up the fact that a month ago, the Senate 20 Majority Leader -- the Minority Leader; 21 forgive me, I'm being prophetic -- put out a 22 plan that we endorsed that was widely 23 distributed that had a lot of aspects in it 24 that would deal precisely with the question

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(518) 371-8910 1 you raised. That is our alternative. 2 But to go beyond that -- and it is 3 part of what that plan refers to -- you may 4 recall the New York Times did a three-part 5 series of articles on Medicaid. They 6 calculated, based on a great deal of 7 information they had collected, that in the 8 State of New York there was somewhere between 9 10 and 30 percent in our Medicaid budget that 10 could be directly attributed to fraud and 11 inefficiencies and wasteful spending. 12 As a result of that article and a 13 great deal of other inputs, we put together -- 14 with Senator Skelos being the prime mover -- a 15 bill creating the Medicaid Inspector General. 16 The New York Times said at a 17 minimum the waste, fraud, and inefficiency was 18 between 10 and 30 percent. If you took the 19 lowest end of that, 10 percent, and you look 20 at our 40-some-odd-billion-dollar Medicaid 21 budget, we're talking about $4 billion at a 22 minimum. 23 Well, what's happened? What's 24 happened? Despite some of the things that the

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(518) 371-8910 1 Comptroller has pointed out, the Attorney 2 General has pointed out and others have 3 pointed out, we're not doing what we said we 4 were going to do. And if we did, many of the 5 things you've talked about would simply not be 6 a problem. 7 And of course the other issue, 8 which we all know about and talk about all the 9 time, is the failure to collect the revenues 10 from purchases of cigarettes and gasoline and 11 other products on Indian reservations. And 12 I've heard various estimates there, somewhere 13 in the billion-dollar category, of lost 14 revenue. 15 So just take those two things 16 alone, and we wouldn't be having to do the 17 income tax increases that you've talked about. 18 I also want to point out one 19 additional factor. When you talk about 20 $200,000, $300,000, $500,000 incomes, you are 21 including S corporations, small businesses, 22 which everyone agrees are the prime provider 23 of jobs in this state and nationally. 24 As a matter of fact, the President

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(518) 371-8910 1 addressed that issue just the other day, as 2 did his Treasury Secretary, that small 3 business is the largest employer in the 4 aggregate throughout the nation and certainly 5 here in New York. 6 What you're saying to those 7 S corporations, who are now going to get hit 8 by those income tax increases, is that you're 9 going to have to pay more. Which means if you 10 are marginal, and many of them are today, 11 you're going to have to lay people off, you're 12 not going to make the investment in your 13 business that you may have hoped to make. The 14 net result is less jobs, less income, and 15 everybody suffers. 16 So don't just talk about these 17 revenue producers vis-a-vis income tax 18 increases as individuals. They are small 19 businesses, and those small businesses 20 represent a whole array of wage earners, from 21 one end to the other. 22 Well, Mr. President, I'd simply say 23 that the proposals before us just don't make 24 any sense, by any measure, at any level. And

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(518) 371-8910 1 we are completely ignoring some very 2 fundamental aspects of our economic health and 3 in the process are doing a great deal of 4 damage. 5 Thank you. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 7 you, Senator Padavan. 8 Senator Skelos. 9 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, 10 Mr. President. 11 I appreciate the opportunity to 12 speak and just want to point out, in my 13 opinion and in the opinion of the Senate 14 Republicans, this bill represents everything 15 that's wrong with this budget. 16 It increases fees by over 17 $8 billion. It includes most of the 18 $13 billion in increase in spending in the 19 overall budget. It doesn't help our school 20 districts, it doesn't make college more 21 affordable. And what's most important, it 22 does nothing to reduce the tax burden on 23 businesses large and small so that they can be 24 competitive and create new jobs.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Today and throughout this week 2 Senate Republicans have offered amendments 3 after amendments to make this a better budget. 4 We've tried to fix the budget by offering 5 amendments that would eliminate the biggest 6 tax increase in history, stop a massive 7 personal income tax hike that will not only 8 hurt families but will harm small businesses 9 and cost thousands of jobs; strike the 10 countless tax increases on things such as 11 healthcare, highway use, auto rentals, beer, 12 wine, and cigars; restore the tax rebate 13 checks that so many New Yorkers depend on to 14 help pay their property taxes. 15 And I should point out, my father 16 is 88 years old, still works, and does depend 17 upon his STAR rebate check. 18 We've offered amendments to help 19 families afford college tuition by prepaying; 20 provide desperately needed mandate relief for 21 our schools to help them contain costs; place 22 a cap on state spending to put the brakes on 23 budgets like this that spend taxpayers' money 24 like a runaway train.

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(518) 371-8910 1 All of our amendments to this bill 2 reflect a budget plan that Senate Republicans 3 put out a month ago, the only plan that was 4 put out, other than the Governor's initial 5 budget, prior to voting. 6 We have all read papers from across 7 the state that have criticized this budget. 8 Unlike the budget we are voting on, our budget 9 plan was released in public. It was fiscally 10 responsible, it was balanced, and included 11 $3.2 billion in cuts and revenues. 12 We have all heard from our 13 constituents that say that this budget we are 14 acting on spends way too much, $13 billion 15 more than last year. The Senate Republicans' 16 budget spent less than the budget proposed by 17 the Governor. We have all heard from our 18 constituents that they don't like the 19 $8 billion in new taxes in this budget. 20 That's $2400 per family of four earning under 21 $84,000. These are not wealthy people. 22 Senate Republicans fought to stop 23 the tax increases in this budget. We tried to 24 restore property tax rebates. The Majority

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(518) 371-8910 1 Democrats defended the tax increases in this 2 bill, criticized our tax cuts by saying they 3 would increase spending. That's not spending. 4 We're trying to put more money in the pockets 5 of our hardworking families throughout 6 New York State so they can spend it and 7 stimulate the economy, as Senator Padavan has 8 pointed out. 9 The federal stimulus money was 10 supposed to be used to turn our economy around 11 so taxpayers could keep more of their money to 12 put back into our economy instead of giving 13 more to state government. 14 Senator Krueger talked about 15 studies that show it's not going to hurt small 16 businesses -- Senator Liz Krueger. We've 17 heard from business groups on Long Island, 18 Westchester, Central and Western New York. 19 These are not egghead professors in some 20 colleges or universities that are speaking 21 from on high. These are people that are in 22 the trenches on a daily basis trying to make 23 small businesses survive. 24 Now, one of those, Unshackle

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(518) 371-8910 1 Upstate, it's a fine organization. I'll read 2 from a memo: "The CEOs of the five major 3 upstate Chambers of Commerce, along with their 4 colleagues across the region, are calling upon 5 the five representatives of the Senate Upstate 6 Democratic Caucus to speak up for their 7 constituents by either voting against the 8 proposed budget, accepting the amendments 9 being put forth by the Senate Republicans, or 10 agree to delay the vote so that a new budget 11 can be negotiated. 12 "'The five men -- Senators 13 Aubertine, Breslin, Stachowski, Thompson and 14 Valesky -- have the power to protect the 15 upstate economy and the future of New York 16 State by just standing up and voting in the 17 best interests of their constituents,' said 18 Brian Sampson, executive director of Unshackle 19 Upstate." 20 One last quote from this memo. 21 "'The taxpayers and job creators of New York 22 State are already the most generous in the 23 country, as they pay by far the highest taxes 24 in the nation.'" This comes from the

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(518) 371-8910 1 president of the Greater Syracuse Chamber of 2 Commerce. "'They are suffering under the 3 burden along with the pressures of the 4 recession.'" 5 Senate Republicans offered a plan 6 to reduce taxes on businesses -- especially 7 small businesses -- and manufacturers so they 8 can retain and create jobs. Increasing the 9 tax burden on small businesses that pay under 10 the PIT, increasing the utility taxes of large 11 manufacturers by thousands of dollars a month 12 will only chase businesses away. Some people 13 here call it progressive. We are progressing 14 people out of the state. 15 To call this bill, as it's been 16 called in the past, the Big Ugly, is almost 17 too polite and it's too flip. This bill is an 18 assault on taxpayers' wallets, it's a massive 19 blow to any hopes for economic recovery in 20 New York, and it's the epitome of all that is 21 wrong with this budget. 22 We Republicans have offered a 23 better budget. We offered amendments to fix 24 the budget and address the concerns. We have

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(518) 371-8910 1 been hearing from people we represent. It 2 only took one vote to stand up and make those 3 changes happen, but it doesn't appear that 4 anybody on the Democrat side of the aisle has 5 the courage to stand up and do it. 6 I will be voting against this bill, 7 Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 9 you, Senator Skelos. 10 Senator Saland. 11 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 12 Mr. President. Mr. President, would Senator 13 Krueger yield -- oh, she's no longer in the 14 chamber? 15 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I'm sorry, 16 Senator, I was taking a personal-needs break. 17 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you for 18 extending me the courtesy of returning to the 19 chamber. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 21 Senator Krueger, would you yield to a question 22 from Senator Saland? 23 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Certainly, 24 Mr. President.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SALAND: Senator Krueger, 2 I've been listening intently here all morning, 3 and I enjoyed your exchanges with one or 4 another of the Senators who rose to engage 5 you. 6 And at some point during the course 7 of your dialogue you made reference to 8 President Obama and the need to stimulate the 9 economy. And I'd like to think that everybody 10 here would hope that the President, as we 11 would any president, would be successful in 12 his efforts. 13 And interestingly enough, as you 14 were speaking, there were a group of young 15 people who are no longer here sitting in the 16 gallery. And I would say there must have been 17 at least 15 to 20 young people, I assume they 18 were high-school age, observing the debate 19 that was going on. 20 And I looked at them and it made me 21 sort of think about their future, the future 22 of my children, who range in age from 26 to 23 39, and my grandchildren, who range in age 24 from 1 to 4 years old.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And while the federal government is 2 spending trillions of dollars to stimulate the 3 economy, they have a printing press, and they 4 can just keep cranking out that money and 5 cranking out that money and cranking out that 6 money, and at some point I think everybody 7 recognizes there will be inflation, which we 8 will all have to contend with when it happens. 9 We don't have a printing press. So 10 my initial question to you would be, do you 11 share with me the recognition that, unlike the 12 federal government, we are required to balance 13 our budget? 14 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Through 15 you, Mr. President. Yes, we do have to 16 balance our budget. In fact, I stated it 17 several times in my explanation of the bill 18 and my argument for it. 19 And yes, you are of course right 20 that only the federal government can print 21 money. I've actually had the debate with one 22 of my Congressmen, Jerrold Nadler, who is the 23 chair of the House Committee on the 24 Constitution. I have asked him whether we

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(518) 371-8910 1 could have an exception to that amendment 2 because it would be of great assistance to the 3 State of New York to be able to print money. 4 And he's explained to me there's this whole 5 Articles of the Confederacy issue and the 6 reason the amendment was put in. So he 7 advised me as a legislator not to print money. 8 But I think I understand your 9 point, that the State of New York has an 10 obligation to balance our budget. And as you 11 so well said, speaking on behalf of your 12 grandchildren and my -- I have six nieces and 13 nephews, no children or grandchildren, but I 14 do understand our responsibilities to the 15 State of New York for our future. 16 Which is why I think that given the 17 alternatives available to us, I would prefer 18 to raise revenues to balance the budget rather 19 than to continue to borrow at even greater 20 amounts. Because in fact, over last 12, 14, 21 15 years, that's what the State of New York 22 did. We spent and borrowed, spent and 23 borrowed. It increased our debt enormously. 24 It increased the responsibilities on the next

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(518) 371-8910 1 generation. 2 And I am hoping to avoid that in a 3 variety of ways, including making the hard 4 decisions to tax in order to balance our 5 budget as opposed to borrow and put ourselves 6 even further in debt than necessary. 7 SENATOR SALAND: If the Senator 8 will continue to yield. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 10 Senator Krueger, will you continue to yield? 11 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Certainly, 12 Mr. President, I do. 13 SENATOR SALAND: In one of your 14 exchanges, and perhaps it was with Senator 15 DeFrancisco, you spoke somewhat critically of 16 prior spending and made reference to, as you 17 just did, the fact that we don't want to 18 borrow. 19 Now, depending upon the year which 20 we choose to use as a base -- and in your 21 comments you said yes, there is a closeout 22 estimated DOB number of 119.8, is I believe 23 the number you used. And this budget proposes 24 to spend -- I believe Senator Kruger two or

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(518) 371-8910 1 three days ago, whenever we started this, used 2 the number of 131.9. The difference being 3 some $12 billion, if -- yeah, $12 billion. 4 And in an exchange between myself 5 and Senator Kruger, and subsequently Senator 6 Flanagan and Senator Kruger, there was a 7 recognition of the fact that also cut from 8 that base was some $6 billion. 9 And while I don't want to go there, 10 we heard, for example, that there are 11 agricultural programs that are being cut. 12 There's a host of programs that are being cut 13 before we get to whatever it is that we're 14 spending in that $12 billion. 15 So for purposes of our discussion, 16 I'm not going to use the $18 billion number, 17 I'll use the mere $12 billion number. 18 $7.2 billion of that is stimulus. 19 And that was discussed at some length, and 20 that's also cited in the Finance report. The 21 additional money that by everybody's account 22 is being spent is being spent in a variety of 23 different ways: PIT, some several billion 24 dollars' worth of fees, we're cutting some

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(518) 371-8910 1 $1.6 billion in tax relief to taxpayers by way 2 of the STAR rebate program, we imposed almost 3 a billion dollars' worth of taxes or fees a 4 month and a half or so ago when we did the 5 DRP. 6 I come back to a question that I 7 asked earlier on this floor: Do you believe 8 that it is prudent policy to attempt to tax 9 your way out of a severe recession? 10 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Mr. 11 President, through you. I think we are doing 12 multiple things. We are cutting the budget. 13 We are using federal stimulus monies. We are 14 continuing to move forward with capital 15 projects, including federal separate monies 16 for capital projects. 17 The economists are pretty 18 consistent with arguing what you want to do is 19 not dramatically cut government spending 20 during an economic downturn, that in fact 21 government spending has some of the most 22 effective rates of economic stimulus activity 23 in the local economy. 24 So what do we know we want to do in

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(518) 371-8910 1 a recession or in an economic downturn? We 2 want to put people to work, we want to support 3 investing in our local economy, we want to use 4 our money for the types of models that have 5 what's called a multiplier effect in the 6 economy. So in fact the answer is partially 7 yes, our first priority in a recession is to 8 try to use our government funds to create the 9 greatest amount of economic activity. 10 So the food stamp program has been 11 rated the most effective at economic-activity 12 generation, a 1 to -- excuse me, let me start 13 again. For every dollar we spend in food 14 stamps, we generate immediately over $1.75 in 15 economic activity in our local economy. 16 And I'm glad you brought up 17 agriculture. The food stamp program not only 18 is 100 percent federally funded, but what do 19 you do with a food stamp? It's not even a 20 food stamp anymore, it's a debit card. You go 21 to a local food store to buy food. The food 22 store hires people who get jobs and pay taxes. 23 The food companies who sell food produce more 24 to sell, the truckers bring it in, the

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(518) 371-8910 1 agricultural sector has more of the demand for 2 its product. 3 It's one of the most effective -- 4 actually, Moody's reports that it's the most 5 effective model of spending for economic 6 stimulus. The research shows that government 7 money in fact creates gross domestic product 8 more effectively than the private sector, 9 interestingly, because we can't do anything 10 with our money but spend it locally in our 11 state. 12 Our money, when we spend it, isn't 13 being used for offshore accounts or 14 international investments, it's used for job 15 creation right here at home, which is the win. 16 And in fact, all the economists at 17 the revenue hearing that we held, except for 18 the Beacon Institute gentleman -- which I want 19 to get back to in a moment -- all the 20 economists talked about that we shouldn't cut 21 spending in bad economic times, with the one 22 exception of the economist from the Beacon 23 Institute. I just want to get his name again, 24 because I want to clarify --

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SALAND: If I may, if 2 you'd suffer an interruption, you did in your 3 response to I believe it was Senator 4 DeFrancisco make reference to whomever it was 5 and question his bona fides because of his 6 relationship apparently to some institute or 7 consulting for -- 8 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: It wasn't 9 E.J. McMahon I was quoting. Senator 10 DeFrancisco said it was E.J. McMahon I was 11 quoting, but in fact E.J. McMahon was quoting 12 the gentleman from the Beacon Institute, and 13 my understanding is he is the consultant to 14 the Republican Conference. 15 So it was not -- E.J. was quoting 16 him, and he was the only economist of the five 17 who said that we shouldn't actually increase 18 spending, that we should decrease spending. 19 And then I have about a hundred economists who 20 have written letters supporting it -- 21 SENATOR SALAND: Senator Krueger, 22 would you -- would you suffer an interruption? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Excuse 24 me?

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SALAND: Would Senator 2 Krueger suffer an interruption? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Excuse 4 me, I can't -- 5 SENATOR SALAND: I said would 6 Senator Krueger suffer an interruption, 7 Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Would 9 you suffer an interruption? 10 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I'm not 11 feeling that suffering. Certainly, Senator. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: She 13 will suffer an interruption, Senator Saland. 14 SENATOR SALAND: May I say that I 15 will accept your answer to this point as being 16 your answer. You don't have to impress me 17 with any more additional data. 18 I'd like to ask you one very narrow 19 question and then go on the bill. 20 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes. 21 Mr. President, one narrow question. 22 SENATOR SALAND: One of the 23 few -- perhaps only -- tax relief measures 24 that I'm familiar with being in this budget is

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(518) 371-8910 1 something that provides tax relief to the 2 television and entertainment industry. I 3 believe there's some $350 million in relief. 4 Am I correct in assuming you 5 support that and you believe it's important to 6 the economy, particularly important to the 7 economy of New York City? 8 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: My 9 understanding is that is a continuation of a 10 tax expenditure that had sunset. And my 11 understanding is that on the evaluations done 12 by the ESDC and the Tax and Finance Commission 13 on the ratings of economic activity generated 14 for the state from different types of tax 15 expenditures, it has been one of the most 16 effective job-creation models through the use 17 of a tax expenditure. 18 So while I am always hesitant to 19 support tax expenditures, I will tell you 20 that -- and I am actually holding a hearing on 21 that issue in Rochester at the end of the 22 month, if you would like to join us, because I 23 think there needs to be so much more 24 evaluation of them.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Based on the data through 2 independent auditors and through ESDC, yes, I 3 was comfortable supporting that in the budget 4 because it has created so many jobs. Thank 5 you, because I can't memorize everything. 6 Their studies show that there's $1.90 7 generated for every dollar, based on an 8 Ernst & Young audit. 9 And again, I think there was a 10 misspeak before about that proposal. That is 11 not unique to New York City; that is for 12 productions anywhere in the State of New York. 13 I actually -- I know that there's a very 14 active TV and film production company in 15 Buffalo that was also found to be very 16 important for job creation. 17 So again, the truth is when there's 18 economic activity anywhere in the State of 19 New York, again, as one state, we all win. 20 But that was not a specific credit for 21 New York City. 22 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 23 Senator Krueger. 24 I would call your attention and the

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(518) 371-8910 1 chamber's attention -- 2 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 3 Senator Saland -- 4 SENATOR SALAND: On the bill. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 6 Senator Saland, on the bill. 7 SENATOR SALAND: I would call 8 your attention and the chamber's attention to 9 page 110 of this bill, lines 35 to 42. And 10 what this in effect does is it imposes a tax 11 on those air transport companies that engage 12 in the business of servicing and shuttling 13 passengers for other people. Large 14 corporations, perhaps. These people 15 supposedly, by way of this tax, are going to 16 contribute $2 million to help close our budget 17 deficit. 18 Well, there is in my district a 19 company, AAG. They have already located a 20 site in New Jersey -- all they need is a 21 helipad -- and they have told my county that 22 they are leaving. They are taking 79 jobs 23 with them, out the door in the very near 24 future.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Not a laughing matter. My county 2 will lose $177,000 in revenues. The town in 3 which it's located will lose $36,000 in 4 property taxes. Other businesses that deal 5 with them obviously are going see a diminution 6 of their top line; they, in turn, will lose. 7 And as this happens, I just have 8 reports in one of my local newspapers, today's 9 Register Star, I have a company in Chatham, at 10 the northern end of Columbia County not far 11 from this Capitol -- they're moving to 12 Massachusetts. They're a plastic 13 manufacturer. They're closing their doors. 14 Massachusetts, once known as "Taxachusetts." 15 Same newspaper. Another company in 16 the City of Hudson, a struggling city that has 17 already lost two or three businesses in the 18 last several months, including the largest 19 employer in the county. Hudson Fabrics, 20 struggling to stay alive, is looking to sell 21 their facility to see if someone will help to 22 keep those people employed in that county. 23 The taxes that we are imposing and 24 the spending that we are imposing is a clarion

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(518) 371-8910 1 call to any small business that their days are 2 numbered. They're struggling as it is. We 3 are punishing them mercilessly. 4 This AAG that is going to be run 5 out of my county because of this tax was 6 supporting 79 people, 79 families with 7 good-paying jobs. They're not moving very 8 far, they're just going to New Jersey. 9 What sensible policy -- who could 10 not see the writing on the wall? Two million 11 dollars in the scheme of $132 billion, it's 12 not petty cash, it's chump change. And you're 13 not going to get the $2 million, because 14 they're taking their business over the border. 15 And they're not fleeing to the South, they're 16 not fleeing to the Southwest, they're merely 17 going to New Jersey. 18 I heard a number of things today on 19 the floor. For example, the importance of 20 educating our children. And I full well know 21 and appreciate the importance of educating 22 children. I've always said there was an 23 "equal" sign between education and 24 opportunity.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And on the whole, we do a good job 2 in many places. We could do a better job in 3 many other places. And when we get to our 4 institutes of higher education, we are as good 5 as you're going to find anywhere. 6 There's a problem. We educate them 7 and they leave, because they don't want to pay 8 what they have to pay here. They don't want 9 to pay the personal income tax, as high as it 10 is, and getting higher. They don't want to 11 pay the property taxes. They don't want to 12 absorb the cost of living that we have in 13 New York. 14 Census data will tell you that in 15 the last decade we lost hundreds of thousands 16 of people who left and were replaced primarily 17 by -- and I say this in no disparaging way -- 18 by immigrants. We're a wonderful country. We 19 embrace immigrants. But there were people who 20 had tens of thousands of jobs that they left 21 here or lost here knowing that they would have 22 greater opportunity elsewhere and not wanting 23 to bear the burden of staying here and bearing 24 the God-awful taxes, the micromanaging of

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(518) 371-8910 1 government. 2 Let me suggest to you that if 3 you're a middle-class family, this is what you 4 can look forward to. Aside from the personal 5 income tax increases -- which, incidentally, 6 we talk about the adjoining states, and we 7 talk about New Jersey at 8.97 and perhaps 8 going up, we talk about Connecticut. Nobody 9 talks about the rates beneath those highest 10 rates. They're lower than ours. So somebody 11 making $500,000 or $300,000 will fare better 12 moving across the border. 13 And as Senator Padavan pointed out, 14 in New York City better than 50 percent of the 15 budget is paid by, I believe he said, 16 15 percent of the people. And he went on in 17 his same piece to say if 10 percent of them 18 move out -- 1500 taxpayers, I'm sorry. If 19 1500 taxpayers move out, the city loses 20 3.5 billion. 21 But what can middle-class 22 New Yorkers expect? In addition to higher 23 property taxes, thanks to stripping away the 24 STAR rebate, you're going to pay more for your

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(518) 371-8910 1 car, pay more for your registration. 2 Certainly you'll pay more for your utility 3 bills. You're going to pay higher costs of 4 health insurance; you're going to pay higher 5 costs, in addition to that, for home health 6 care. If you happen to enjoy the outdoors, 7 hunting and fishing, that's going to cost you 8 more too. 9 And perhaps the ultimate indignity, 10 it's going to cost you more to file your 11 taxes, because now tax preparers are going to 12 have to pay a $100 fee for the distinction of 13 being able to provide their service here in 14 New York. 15 Who's going to make up all this 16 money, the tooth fairy? The simple fact of 17 the matter is that we are taxing people out of 18 this state. We have $12 billion, 19 conservatively, and I believe $18 billion of 20 new spending. Knock off the $7 billion in 21 stimulus money, we are spending $10 billion to 22 $11 billion more in this budget in a 23 recession -- that's not a mild recession, it's 24 a severe recession.

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(518) 371-8910 1 We are putting ourselves, as I said 2 earlier, at a precipice. And much of this 3 spending is recurring spending, with one-shot 4 money for recurring spending. Woe to all of 5 us that we do not experience a miraculous 6 recovery within the next 48 months. If we do 7 not experience a miraculous recovery within 8 48 months, there will be an exodus of people, 9 people who would be people who we would rely 10 upon to pay these taxes. 11 Because that opportunity that might 12 have been perceived as still being available 13 to them in New York is going to be far more 14 attractive in virtually every other state in 15 the union. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 17 you, Senator Saland. 18 Senator Flanagan. 19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. President, 20 I was hoping Senator Liz Krueger would yield. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 22 Senator Kruger. 23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: I will have 24 to do, Senator Flanagan.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Well, 2 actually, Senator Kruger, no disrespect to 3 you, I was looking to ask questions based on 4 comments that were made by Senator Liz 5 Krueger. 6 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: I think 7 she's left the chamber. If I can't do, I 8 don't know what to suggest. 9 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Again, Senator 10 Kruger, I certainly don't pretend to speak for 11 anybody else. And Senator Krueger made some 12 specific comments as it relates to Long 13 Island. And I wouldn't want to put you in the 14 position of having to explain the details as 15 to what she was thinking. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: We can 17 have a moment. 18 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Mr. 19 President, then maybe I suggest we go on to 20 the next speaker and come back. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Good 22 idea. Would that be all right with you? 23 SENATOR FLANAGAN: No, in fact, 24 it won't.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Then I'll just speak on the bill. 2 And I'll have to assume certain things in the 3 absence of Senator Krueger. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 5 Senator Flanagan, on the bill. 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: On the bill. 7 I listened very carefully, and I 8 double-checked with my colleague Senator 9 Robach as to characterizations and direct 10 comments and statements made by Senator Liz 11 Krueger, and she was talking about the 12 revenues in this budget and in particular the 13 PIT and how it was going to work and where the 14 money was going to go. And she specifically 15 said that the City of New York is a donor to 16 upstate New York to the tune of $13 billion. 17 Then she went on to say that the 18 money that's generated from this doesn't 19 benefit Long Island and doesn't benefit 20 New York City, but benefits upstate New York. 21 Now, as a Long Islander, someone 22 representing communities all across the Second 23 Senate District, I'm concerned, I'm 24 frustrated, I'm frankly appalled that a

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(518) 371-8910 1 characterization like that would be made by 2 the vice chair of the Senate Finance 3 Committee. 4 So I'll only have to assume that 5 there's some type of callous disregard for the 6 communities on Long Island. Because after 7 all, if we're going to raise revenue, there 8 should be some fair and equitable 9 distribution. That's number one. 10 Number two, following up on 11 conversations that I know Senator DeFrancisco 12 had, and I did as well, in talking to Senator 13 Carl Kruger, we asked questions about General 14 Fund spending. And Senator Kruger told me he 15 would get back to me. And Senator Liz Krueger 16 couldn't answer the question today as well. 17 So it is perplexing for me and I 18 think for many of us, including the public, to 19 listen to characterizations by the majority 20 that General Fund spending is only up 21 1 percent, and yet no one can provide us with 22 any numbers. There are no numbers from DOB, 23 there are no updated numbers from the 24 financial plan, there is nothing that we can

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(518) 371-8910 1 represent, not only in terms of General Fund 2 spending but in State Fund spending. There is 3 absolutely no specificity. 4 And I go back to the financial plan 5 that was presented to us the other day with 6 both Senator Kruger and Senator Krueger on the 7 cover of this. The All Funds number is there, 8 but not the General Fund number and not the 9 State Fund number. 10 So I am left to assume that we 11 don't have that information, and yet we're 12 listening to characterizations that General 13 Fund spending is only up 1 percent. We don't 14 know that factually, but those who are 15 advocating for this budget keep making those 16 statements. 17 And then finally, I want to go back 18 to something that Senator DeFrancisco said 19 relative to page 319 of the Public Protection 20 and General Government Budget, and this is 21 something that I will partially agree with the 22 majority on. The first part of this language 23 is language to the tune of $1 billion hereby 24 being appropriated for transfer by the

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(518) 371-8910 1 Governor to funds established in a specific 2 account. 3 We have done that in the past, I 4 readily acknowledge that. And that in this 5 respect right now is a dry appropriation. 6 But in working with our own finance 7 people, who negotiated some prior budgets, the 8 second paragraph is the most glaring example 9 of where I think we're going to have problems 10 and where I think the most politics is going 11 to get played with this budget. 12 A fair interpretation of what this 13 statute says right here is that a billion 14 dollars can be put into this special fund. 15 And now, unlike in the past, there is 16 unfettered discretion and authority on the 17 part of the Division of Budget, obviously in 18 conjunction with the Governor, to spend that 19 money as they see fit. And it says 20 specifically to any state department, agency, 21 or public authority for the purposes in the 22 American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 23 2009. 24 There is no oversight by the

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(518) 371-8910 1 Legislature, there is no specific authority 2 where the Legislature is allowed to provide 3 input. This is at the sole discretion of the 4 Division of Budget. 5 Now, the Division of Budget is the 6 organization, the entity here right now that's 7 holding up capital projects, that's holding up 8 other projects that affect all of our 9 communities in all of our separate Senate 10 districts. 11 This is the ultimate member item, 12 except it doesn't go out to the communities 13 that we represent, it's in the authority and 14 discretion of the Division of Budget. And I 15 think we should be able to tell people that so 16 they know, when these issues come up, well, 17 how did that press release that new money's 18 going out the door and somehow it's going into 19 one portion of the state but not to another? 20 This is exactly what is wrong with 21 this budget. Because -- and I don't offer 22 this disrespectfully -- I listened to Senator 23 Liz Krueger say there was $7 billion in 24 federal stimulus funds. I listened to Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Carl Kruger the other night make a 2 representation of $5 billion. Then I looked 3 at some press releases that said $7.2 billion. 4 Then I heard Senator Krueger said $1.3 billion 5 that goes back to last year. 6 So if I'm standing here, my 7 thinking is it's 7, plus the 1.3, that's 8 8.3 billion, and there were representations 9 made that there's a total of $24 billion in 10 this package. So are we to assume that over 11 the course of the next year we're going to 12 spend the other $15.7 billion? 13 And then I think to myself, all 14 right, if we have $24 billion and we're 15 spending approximately $8 billion, why 16 shouldn't we be using another $4 billion this 17 year to get rid of some of these onerous taxes 18 that are contained in this budget? Why are we 19 putting most of the money into next year when 20 our need is the most glaring right now? 21 The problem is that no one can 22 provide a satisfactory answer. And I'll close 23 on this point. Looking at this financial 24 plan, I will give the majority credit for

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(518) 371-8910 1 this. You have provided great clarity and 2 great detail on all the taxes and fees that 3 you want to impose upon the residents of 4 New York. There's no speculation, it's right 5 there. 6 However, there's no plan as to how 7 the federal stimulus money will be spent. 8 There's no document, even right now, that we 9 can all look at, any one of us -- not me, not 10 the Republicans -- any one of us in the Senate 11 doesn't know where the money is going. In 12 fact, we don't even know how much money we 13 have. And on top of that, we don't even know 14 what the Governor has applied for, supposedly 15 on behalf of the residents of the State of 16 New York. 17 This fund was referred to the other 18 night as a slush fund. I'll say it a little 19 differently. It's the ultimate member-item 20 fund, except it doesn't affect any of the 21 members that serve in this chamber. It's 22 there for the Division of Budget. And 23 frankly, I'm worried that I'm not going to see 24 any money coming to Long Island no matter

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(518) 371-8910 1 whose district we're talking about, because 2 Senator Krueger just said with all the 3 revenues we have coming in, the money is not 4 going to Long Island and it's not going to the 5 City of New York, it's going upstate. 6 And I know and I believe my 7 colleagues in upstate New York need help. But 8 like everybody else, we should have a fair and 9 equitable distribution and we should be able 10 to see now a blueprint of what that is so that 11 we can go home to our taxpayers and say: 12 Here's where the money came from, and here's 13 where it's going to be spent. 14 That we can't tell them. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 16 you, Senator Flanagan. 17 Senator LaValle, on the bill. 18 SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you, 19 Mr. President. 20 Senator Liz Krueger, in her 21 remarks, said something that is a good slogan: 22 We are one New York. From my vantage point in 23 Long Island -- and Senator Flanagan 24 articulated some views -- the people I

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(518) 371-8910 1 represent really feel put upon. I don't think 2 there is any other way to say it. We feel put 3 upon. 4 I have yesterday's Newsday. 5 Congressman Steve Israel, who is trying on a 6 national level, trying to have, in terms of 7 taxation, a regional adjustment because 8 $200,000 on Long Island has the same buying 9 power in Indianapolis of $121,000. And the 10 Congressman says, and I think this gets to 11 something that we on Long Island have been 12 saying for a long time -- to quote the 13 Congressman, he said: "But I'm getting 14 increasingly frustrated when I hear people say 15 $200,000 is a lavish income." 16 "It may be a lavish income in some 17 areas of the country," Israel continued, "but 18 it is not a lavish income on Long Island when 19 you're trying to put kids through college and 20 you're watching your home equity decline and 21 paying the highest property taxes in the 22 country." 23 This budget has been hurtful to our 24 schools. State aid, we had a 13 percent

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(518) 371-8910 1 share; now we have 5. We eliminated the STAR 2 program, which has been critically helpful for 3 Long Island and quite honestly was -- the 4 basic and enhanced STAR program was put in to 5 help Long Island, and then the STAR rebate 6 program, because we pay the highest property 7 taxes. 8 Now, many of the people -- and I 9 wish people could hear the calls and the 10 emails that I'm getting. Because we think 11 that -- we talk about $200,000, $300,000, you 12 know. Yeah, well, maybe in some parts of the 13 state that's a lot of money. Steve Israel 14 says, you know, we're trying to put our kids 15 through college because we don't get student 16 financial aid. We're watching our values go 17 down, in every family two people are working 18 in a household, trying to generate the kind of 19 money they need to pay their taxes, give their 20 children a decent lifestyle. 21 We watch, in this budget -- and 22 several constituents of mine have complained 23 that we are doing away with fingerprinting at 24 a time when we're going to go back to

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(518) 371-8910 1 increased welfare and Medicaid fraud. We had 2 for years passed bills and counted on revenue 3 from welfare and Medicaid fraud. And now 4 we're just throwing that away. And people I 5 represent, you know, they have a problem with 6 that. They have a problem with that. 7 I talked yesterday and we'll 8 probably have more discussion on our 9 hospitals. Our hospitals are receiving less 10 aid. Some of them are going to be at the 11 brink of reducing services or going out of 12 business. 13 Senator Krueger is chair of the 14 select committee; I serve with Senator 15 Ranzenhofer on that committee and others. We 16 had a hearing here in Albany, and I think it 17 was a pretty balanced approach. There were 18 some there articulating views that would have 19 supported Senator Schneiderman's legislation 20 increasing the PIT. 21 There were others -- Frank Mauro 22 made a balanced approach focusing on the 23 property tax issue, how important that is. 24 There was the approach of E.J.

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(518) 371-8910 1 McMahon that talked about and actually had a 2 good exchange with Senator Schneiderman on 3 exactly what his legislation and the 4 implication of that legislation would have on 5 our businesses. And I do believe that we're 6 going to lose jobs. Whether it be 15,000 jobs 7 or 10,000 jobs, it's not a good thing. Not a 8 good thing at this time. 9 One of the groups that testified, 10 and I forget the group, talked about we need 11 higher taxation, we need higher taxes to 12 protect those that are vulnerable, and in the 13 testimony said "and we should be unapologetic 14 about increasing taxes." 15 Now, I understand we have a 16 constitutional responsibility from our 17 founding fathers. New York is probably, I 18 don't know, one of the few states that has in 19 its constitution a commitment to protect the 20 poor. So we have a constitutional obligation. 21 But you know, I keep hearing this 22 chorus about protecting the vulnerable. Well, 23 you know, if we keep taxing, the people who 24 are sending a lot of money in this state from

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(518) 371-8910 1 Long Island are going to be among the 2 vulnerable. 3 We presented a balanced budget, a 4 budget without taxes. Had we had conference 5 committees, we would have had that debate with 6 Senator Krueger and others about whether the 7 Senate plan was balanced, what were the good 8 things, what were the bad things. But we 9 didn't have that opportunity. We did not have 10 that opportunity. 11 I would say that the general rule 12 of thumb had been that when you're in a 13 recession, you don't increase taxes. You 14 don't increase taxes. This is the wrong 15 medicine at the wrong time. So I hope, once 16 again -- maybe I'll be surprised. I know 17 Senator Maziarz went to mass this morning. 18 Maybe he prayed that two people would come 19 over and vote for us, vote with the Republican 20 Minority. 21 Thank you, Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 23 you, Senator LaValle. 24 Senator Robach, on the bill.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes, 2 Mr. President. I am assuming by her absence 3 that Senator Krueger is not taking questions 4 even though she made the remark -- or where 5 are we on that? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 7 Senator Liz Krueger is not in the chamber at 8 this point. 9 However, Senator Carl Kruger is. 10 Are you asking the chairman of the Finance 11 Committee to yield to a question? 12 SENATOR ROBACH: Well, I'll do my 13 best. It might be a little bit different 14 because after making those comments, I'm sorry 15 our colleague had to leave. I can't imagine 16 where we would go during the middle of the 17 budget process. 18 But, Senator Kruger, thank you for 19 staying here as the chairman and talking about 20 a bill that's going to impact all of our 21 constituents greatly. 22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: It's part 23 of the budget process, Senator. 24 SENATOR ROBACH: Your colleague

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Krueger had indicated that no one in 2 the City of New York in her district had ever 3 indicated any displeasure with raising taxes 4 whatsoever. Would you agree with that, and do 5 you have that experience in your district as 6 well? 7 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 8 you, Mr. President. Obviously I cannot speak 9 for the population that exists in Senator 10 Krueger's district. But in reference to 11 your -- 12 SENATOR ROBACH: Well, 13 Mr. President, why don't we get her in here, 14 then, so I can ask her. Why don't we do 15 that -- 16 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Well, 17 Senator -- 18 SENATOR ROBACH: Because I'm sure 19 she's got to be around here somewhere. 20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 21 you, Mr. President, Senator Krueger is not in 22 the chamber now. And I'd be more than glad, 23 as the chairperson of the committee, to answer 24 Senator Robach's questions to the best of my

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(518) 371-8910 1 ability. 2 SENATOR ROBACH: Okay. Would you 3 share the belief of Senator Krueger that no 4 one in New York City is concerned about 5 increasing taxes? 6 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 7 you, Mr. President. Obviously, since I do not 8 represent Senator Krueger's district -- 9 SENATOR ROBACH: No, in New York 10 City. I'll broaden it for you, Senator. 11 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Well, in 12 the broad sense of the word, I don't take 13 polls, so I really couldn't answer that. 14 But I would suspect that it's a 15 mixed bag. Some people may, and some people 16 may not. You really can't tell. 17 SENATOR ROBACH: I just have to 18 say for a minute before I go on with my 19 questions, this is very frustrating to me -- 20 not to me, to my constituents. People make 21 statements that are going to impact the people 22 I represent and their lives, and I would like 23 to really know, I'm really trying to learn and 24 respect what people say and understand it for

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(518) 371-8910 1 clarity, and now we can't. But I'll try and 2 continue. 3 Well, Senator Kruger, do you 4 believe me that just the opposite happens -- 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Robach, excuse me for one minute. 7 Senator Kruger, do you continue to 8 yield? 9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 11 Senator Kruger continues to yield. 12 SENATOR ROBACH: How about this. 13 Would Senator Kruger continue to yield for a 14 series of questions so we can expedite this? 15 Because I know many people are in a hurry. 16 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: We 18 need to continue through the chair, Senator 19 Robach. 20 SENATOR ROBACH: Well, I'm trying 21 to do that once and for all here, 22 Mr. President, if that works okay for you. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Proceed with your question.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR ROBACH: Do you believe 2 me when I tell you, in all sincerity, that in 3 my district people tell me every day -- as a 4 matter of fact, I'm getting hundreds of calls 5 and emails today, people panicked that they're 6 going to lose their STAR rebate check. And 7 they're very concerned, in these economic 8 times with what's going on with downsizing in 9 some of our large companies, about paying all 10 their taxes, all their fees and everything 11 else. 12 Do you believe me when I do take 13 polls too and tell you that everyone is very, 14 very concerned with that? Do you believe me 15 on that, Senator Kruger? 16 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 17 you, Mr. President. Firstly, just to 18 reiterate, no one wanted to cut the STAR 19 rebate check. However -- 20 SENATOR ROBACH: But you did. 21 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: At least 22 give me an opportunity -- 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Senator Robach, if you could allow Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Kruger to complete his answers to your 2 questions. 3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: -- to 4 answer the question. 5 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes, 6 Mr. President, I will. 7 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Firstly, no 8 one wanted to cut the STAR rebate check. As 9 you know, it was well over a billion dollars 10 in order to generate those checks. 11 The STAR program in the exemption 12 form is still an available option to the 13 residents of this state. 14 And in terms of the veracity of 15 your statement, whether or not I should 16 believe you or not, I think that we know each 17 other long enough that I wouldn't question the 18 integrity of your word and you wouldn't 19 question the integrity of mine. 20 But I think it's a gross 21 exaggeration when we say that there's panic in 22 the streets. 23 SENATOR ROBACH: I never said the 24 word "panic," I said strong, legitimate

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(518) 371-8910 1 concern of peopling facing difficult economic 2 times. 3 Let me continue. Could you tell 4 me, outside of the PIT -- which Senator 5 Krueger did a good job of explaining, and her 6 joy for that -- what are the other combined 7 total taxes on this budget eliminating the 8 PIT? What would that be, Senator Kruger? In 9 the aggregate. 10 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Again, 11 through you, Mr. President, to the best of my 12 recollection, the tax bill was approximately 13 $5.2 billion. Approximately. 14 SENATOR ROBACH: In addition to 15 the PIT. So there's going to be an additional 16 $5 billion -- I actually only have it at about 17 4 billion additional dollars, but if you're 18 telling me it's five, I can believe that too, 19 then? 20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Right. 21 Again, Mr. President, through you, if we would 22 go back to the budget fact sheet, I call your 23 attention to page 3. And the number of the 24 tax and revenue total is 5,126.6.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR ROBACH: Taxes and fees, 2 I'm going to disagree with you a little bit, 3 is really -- I won't list all these for 4 time -- is really about an additional 5 $3.9 billion that people are going to be 6 paying in addition to this. 7 You said that you believe me on my 8 tax issue. Senator DeFrancisco, Senator 9 Flanagan, and others pointed out very 10 accurately that we have this billion-dollar 11 fund, I don't know what you want to call it, 12 that's unspecified. 13 You know, timing in life is 14 everything. You've now agreed with me that 15 where I live, taxes and fees are tremendously 16 important to people on the verge in these 17 economic climates. Don't you think we could 18 have better used that billion dollars -- 19 minimally, if not more -- of the stimulus 20 package to offset these taxes? Wouldn't you 21 agree with me that that would have been a good 22 response to at least my constituents, if not a 23 prudent move for all New Yorkers? 24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through

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(518) 371-8910 1 you, Mr. President. Firstly, if we go back 2 again to that billion-dollar line, that 3 billion-dollar line, as you know, is not an 4 appropriated line, that's a reservoir. We 5 call it a dry line, call it whatever you want 6 to call it. 7 But more particularly, is there a 8 good way or a bad way? I don't ever think 9 there's a good way or a bad way of taxing 10 people. But I think that we have an 11 obligation -- the obligation is not something 12 that I think; we know, it's constitutional -- 13 and that's to provide for a balanced budget. 14 And no matter how tortuous a 15 process we go through and no matter how we 16 want to manipulate the numbers and no matter 17 how much we want to distort the facts, the 18 facts are that you know that we approached a 19 $17 billion shortfall, and that was the 20 scenario that was developed in our judgment in 21 the shared belief that it was a way of going 22 forward to get us out of this rut. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Senator Robach --

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR ROBACH: Through you, 2 Mr. President -- 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Robach. Senator Robach. 5 If I could interrupt the debate for 6 a moment and ask Senator Smith to speak on a 7 matter that has occurred in recent moments. 8 We will return to the debate in a moment, 9 Senator Robach. 10 Senator Smith. 11 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you very 12 much, Mr. President. Thank you, Senator 13 Robach and Senator Carl Kruger, for yielding 14 the floor to me at this moment. 15 Colleagues, we have had a terrible 16 situation happen in this state. And it is 17 important that we -- while we are conducting 18 the business of the state, and it is critical, 19 it sort of puts things in perspective. 20 And up in Binghamton, as we are in 21 here right now, there is a hostage situation 22 going on where it is reported that 15 people 23 have been killed, and the individual is still 24 not apprehended.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Whether that number is 10, 12, or 2 15, what matters most for us is that we have a 3 situation that we need to be in prayer. 4 Senator Libous obviously has to 5 make a determination as to his movement, and I 6 will stand at this moment to indicate to him, 7 before I yield the floor to him, that if for 8 any reason he needs the courtesy extended to 9 him in terms of having him vote on these bills 10 to move forward to Binghamton, that we would 11 extend that to him. 12 But I do hope, colleagues, that we 13 recognize that this is a very tragic 14 situation, one that we have to keep in mind as 15 stewards of this state. It is a situation 16 that is unfolding as we speak. The news, the 17 fact that his family is okay -- which we 18 immediately called, in the office. We spoke 19 to the Governor. The Governor is prepared to 20 assist him. Troopers are on the ground there, 21 the FBI. 22 But we should all be prepared to 23 extend any help to Senator Libous and 24 Binghamton. And I'm talking about financial

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(518) 371-8910 1 as well as spiritual as well as physical, in 2 terms of us being there for him during this 3 tragedy. 4 And at this time, Mr. President, 5 I'd like to yield the floor to Senator Libous. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 7 you, Senator Smith. 8 Senator Libous. 9 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, 10 Mr. President. Thank you, Senator Smith and 11 my colleagues. 12 We're picking up information as 13 everyone else is, through the national news 14 media, CNN and others. I've made several 15 calls, I've tried to get ahold of the mayor, 16 the mayor is at the scene. There's a number 17 of sketchy reports. The Governor and I had a 18 conversation; he's trying to get a briefing 19 from the State Police so that we can get our 20 arms around exactly how many fatalities there 21 are, exactly what's going on. 22 The one thing that we do know, as 23 Senator Smith mentioned, is that at this time 24 the gunman is still at large. They're not

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(518) 371-8910 1 sure if he has hostages inside the building or 2 if he has left the building. 3 So as Senator Smith said, our 4 prayers are certainly with the family members. 5 It's a difficult situation. I know it was at 6 the American Civic Society. I have a lot of 7 very, very close and dear friends there. And, 8 you know, as we get details, we're going to 9 need to do whatever we can to comfort the 10 families, as Senator Smith and I talked about, 11 in the months ahead. And the Governor has 12 offered his help and assistance. 13 So all I can do now is tell you 14 please offer your prayers for any of the 15 victims and their families and those who may 16 be in harm's way at this time. 17 Thank you. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 19 you, Senator Libous. 20 Senator Smith. 21 SENATOR SMITH: Before we return 22 to debate, if we would just pause in a moment 23 of silence for the families of all those who 24 might be under this terrible moment.

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(518) 371-8910 1 (Whereupon, the assemblage 2 respected a moment of silence.) 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Robach, you have the floor. 5 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes. I think 6 Senator Kruger was just finishing up 7 explaining why it wasn't good to use that 8 billion dollars to offset property tax or 9 taxes. If you want to continue, feel free to, 10 if you weren't finished with your answer. 11 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 12 you, Mr. President. Well, I think in 13 substance we've covered that ground 14 previously. I know that you feel, as well as 15 we feel, that taxing anyone is a bad thing but 16 sometimes, as we know, a necessary thing. And 17 hopefully, as this economy improves, we'll be 18 able to look at this issue in greater detail 19 and try to spread the pain in a more 20 appropriate fashion. 21 Thank you, Mr. President. 22 SENATOR ROBACH: One last 23 question and then I'll go on the bill. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Klein. 2 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 3 can we suspend the debate for a moment and 4 open the roll. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: By 6 unanimous consent, the debate is suspended 7 momentarily. 8 The Secretary will open the roll on 9 Calendar Number 136. First, read the last 10 section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 14 Secretary will call the roll. 15 (The Secretary called the roll.) 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator Libous. 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: No. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 20 roll call is withdrawn, and the bill is laid 21 aside. 22 The Secretary will read Calendar 23 Number 138 for the same purpose. 24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number

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(518) 371-8910 1 138, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print 2 Number 159B, an act to amend Chapter 279 of 3 the Laws of 1998. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator Libous. 13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 14 believe there are two amendments at the desk 15 on this bill, and I would vote aye on both of 16 those amendments. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 18 record shall so reflect. 19 And your vote on the bill? 20 SENATOR LIBOUS: On the bill I 21 would vote no. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Libous to be recorded in the negative. 24 The roll call is withdrawn, and the

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(518) 371-8910 1 bill is laid aside. 2 The Secretary will continue to read 3 Calendar 137. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 137, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print 6 Number 158B, an act to amend the Public Health 7 Law and the Elder Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 16 Senator Libous. 17 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 18 believe there would be one amendment on this 19 bill; I would vote aye. 20 And on the bill, I would vote no. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: So 22 recorded. 23 The roll call is withdrawn, and the 24 bill is laid aside.

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(518) 371-8910 1 The Secretary will read Calendar 2 Number 131. 3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4 131, Assembly Budget Bill, Assembly Print 5 Number 151A, an act making appropriations for 6 the support of government: Legislative and 7 Judiciary Budget. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect immediately. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 16 Senator Libous. 17 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 18 vote no. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 20 Senator Libous to be recorded in the negative. 21 The roll call is withdrawn, and the 22 bill is laid aside. 23 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 24 want to thank Senator Smith and certainly all

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(518) 371-8910 1 my colleagues for extending me this courtesy. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 Secretary will place Calendar 136 before the 4 house. 5 Senator Klein. 6 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 7 can we return to the debate on Calendar 136 8 and recognize Senator Robach. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Calendar 136 is before the house. 11 Senator Robach. 12 SENATOR ROBACH: Thank you. And 13 certainly, with this sad news, hard to get 14 refocused. 15 But let me just ask one last 16 question, because this is going to have such 17 an impact. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator Kruger, do you yield? 20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 21 Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Kruger yields. 24 SENATOR ROBACH: Thank you,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. 2 The other issue that I think stands 3 out so largely in here -- and some of my other 4 colleagues have talked about it -- is you 5 said, actually -- I guess it's good that 6 you're up, and not Liz Krueger -- you had said 7 earlier that we're going to get a detailed 8 list of how the stimulus money is spent later 9 on. 10 And I guess I think I owe it to my 11 constituents and feel that this should be so 12 integrated, so coordinated before we do some 13 of these things we're all agreeing on are so 14 terrible to people. Do you feel that we 15 should have listed these things separately or 16 know exactly where the money is, rather than 17 generically and later on? 18 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 19 you, Mr. President. Within the appropriation 20 bill that we have here, they are all lined 21 out. 22 However, for the purpose of 23 clarity, there will be distributed to all of 24 the members a detailed list, as I had

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(518) 371-8910 1 committed to. 2 SENATOR ROBACH: Thank you, 3 Senator Kruger. 4 Mr. President, on the bill. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Robach, on the bill. 7 SENATOR ROBACH: I really try not 8 to, but I just -- I have such a great deal of 9 concern and somewhat frustration from where 10 we're at today. 11 You know, we all keep talking about 12 what we don't want to do, yet it's exactly 13 what we're doing. And we're not doing it to 14 us, we're doing it to the residents of this 15 state, my constituents. 16 We are going to be adding in taxes 17 and fees, the elimination of the STAR program, 18 taxes on energy, healthcare -- and you know 19 what? A lot of people are calling me on this. 20 But everybody doesn't know yet. And when they 21 do, they're going to demand a little bit more 22 of an answer than we got here today. 23 There's a lot of money in there. 24 People talked about other states earlier.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Other states are using this money, like 2 Senator Schumer suggested, not to raise taxes. 3 Off the PIT, we can't just talk about that one 4 without the other $4 billion in fees on cars, 5 on registrations, on licenses that I believe 6 disproportionately hurt the people in upstate 7 New York where we don't have an option to take 8 the subway or something else. Kids commute to 9 college, you have to get to work. This is 10 seriously impactful stuff. 11 You know, timing in life is 12 everything. I think John F. Kennedy said 13 during the Cuban missile crisis that, you 14 know, the challenge at hand should dictate our 15 actions. We're acting like we're flush. 16 We're acting like we're in a budget surplus. 17 My colleague Liz Krueger said we had done that 18 once before, several years ago, we had all 19 done that before. Yeah, we had a surplus. 20 We now have a deficit. We have an 21 opportunity to fill it in with stimulus money 22 and some other options. We don't know where 23 the money's really going. There's a 24 billion-dollar unallocated fund -- I won't

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(518) 371-8910 1 call it a slush fund. I don't know what it 2 is. No one can answer the question of any of 3 my colleagues. I'm going to have a hard time 4 answering the question or answering that 5 question to my constituents. 6 This is flawed. We've talked 7 ad nauseam about the flawed process and why we 8 couldn't get answers. But the outcome now is 9 almost equally as bad to me, given the 10 situation and the times we're at, as the 11 process. This makes it a concern. 12 And I guarantee you, I don't 13 know -- I'll only speak for my district. I 14 know I'm going to be hearing a lot about this. 15 And my guess is not only in upstate New York 16 but even in Manhattan some people are going to 17 be concerned about some of these taxes and 18 fees that not only are going to hurt 19 individuals but really are job-killing taxes. 20 Taxing energy, you know -- and I'm 21 going to leave that to Senator Maziarz, who 22 will talk about that a little bit later and 23 has a greater expertise than I. And 24 increasing that when people are looking at

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(518) 371-8910 1 siting jobs, staying somewhere, moving, 2 really, really isn't good. 3 So I will end with saying again, as 4 I have on these other things, I wish there was 5 a different process. I wish I didn't have to 6 vote no. I wish I wasn't going to have to 7 spend -- because you're going for vote yes for 8 this and pass this -- the next several months 9 explaining to people, Yes, you do have to pay 10 this, no, no one would listen to me, I 11 couldn't get consensus in this house, it's 12 going to happen. 13 But I think not just me, others are 14 going to have to answer these too. Because I 15 don't think the public has any idea -- and I 16 won't bore you, you all have this. This part 17 isn't debatable, isn't hidden, these taxes and 18 fees on all those things, taking away the STAR 19 program, the one thing -- rebate check -- that 20 we gave upstate people to let them know we 21 were really paying attention and sympathetic 22 to them on property tax. We don't have a 23 municipal income tax. People pay a great deal 24 of money on a home not valued anywheres near

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(518) 371-8910 1 as those in New York City in my district, way 2 more in property tax. We can't do any of 3 that. 4 So I'm really left with no recourse 5 but not only be committed to try and get more 6 information to answer these questions, but 7 wholeheartedly vote no. And while there's 8 still time left, but given all the other past 9 votes, hopefully some of what I believe is 10 very meritorious dialogue will have some 11 impact on some of my other colleagues who have 12 voted yes for the rest of this budget. 13 But this is the Big Ugly. This is 14 what is going to impact people's lives in a 15 big way. The estimate in my district is -- my 16 colleague Senator Kevin Parker said 96 percent 17 of the people won't be affected by these. In 18 my district, on a $78,000 household income for 19 a family of four, it's going to be 20 approximately $2,000 more in taxes and fees 21 with what we're voting on here today. 22 If that's not significant to you, 23 it sure as hell is where I live. And I'd 24 encourage everyone to vote no.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Thank you, Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 3 you, Senator Robach. 4 Senator Lanza. 5 SENATOR LANZA: Thank you, 6 Mr. President. 7 First let me say, of course, as 8 everyone in this chamber feels, my thoughts 9 and prayers to go out to the people of 10 Binghamton. I thought about not speaking at 11 this point, but I think it is important for 12 the people of this state. 13 And, you know, I know people at 14 this juncture, there's a lot of fatigue, 15 people would rather go home. My good friend 16 Senator Serrano choked me up yesterday when he 17 talked about his baby boy. You know, I just 18 missed my baby boy's first T-ball game. I'd 19 rather be there. But I believe that I owe it 20 to him and to his friends and to their 21 families to fight all I can to make sure that 22 this is a better budget for them. 23 And I'm still hopeful and I'm still 24 holding out for a miracle that we can have one

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(518) 371-8910 1 vote here against this budget, which hurts 2 families, which will allow us to go back to 3 the process and make a better budget. 4 I'm still trying to understand why 5 anyone would vote for this budget. In my 6 discussion with Senator Parker -- he's not 7 here right now -- yesterday he offered up a 8 reason, from his point of view a legitimate 9 reason. He said "So that I wouldn't have to 10 go back to my district and tell people why 11 vital services wouldn't be there, why those 12 without a voice, the most vulnerable, wouldn't 13 be taken care of." 14 Well, I have a story in the Staten 15 Island Advance dated April 2nd. It says: 16 "State Budget Decimates Staten Island Mental 17 Health Program. 18 "The state budget has decimated one 19 of Staten Island's oldest mental health 20 programs, pulling more than $800,000 in 21 funding and effectively ending treatment 22 services as of July 1st to some 1,000 disabled 23 children and their families, who are among the 24 borough's most economically disadvantaged.

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(518) 371-8910 1 "The Elizabeth Pouch Center for 2 Special People, one of three divisions of the 3 Staten Island Mental Health Society in West 4 Brighton, will lose $784,000 from the New York 5 State Office of Mental Retardation and 6 Developmental Disabilities, said Dr. Kenneth 7 Popler. 8 "This, Dr. Popler told the Advance, 9 after OMRDD repeatedly had told him, 'Don't 10 worry, Ken,' when he sought assurances from 11 the state that they weren't about to pull the 12 plug on the 35-year-old center. 13 "'Our patients will have nowhere to 14 go,' said Dr. Popler. 15 "Dr. Popler said Pouch annually 16 treats upwards of 1,000 Staten Islanders of 17 all ages, although the center works primarily 18 with children. 19 "'We work with people who come in 20 off the street,' said Dr. Popler. 'There is 21 no HHC facility here. There is really no 22 other place for the general population to go 23 that will serve them.' 24 "Dr. Popler said patients have one

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(518) 371-8910 1 or a combination of developmental 2 disabilities, including mental retardation, 3 cerebral palsy, autism, and epilepsy, with 4 some requiring prescription medications. 5 "Pat Miller" -- a good friend to me 6 and to Senator Savino on Staten Island -- "a 7 1994 Advance Woman of Achievement, said her 8 Down syndrome daughter has been a patient at 9 Pouch for the last few years. 'It is 10 shameful,' said Mrs. Miller of the cuts." 11 So, Senator Parker, and to my 12 colleagues, I can't go home and tell the 13 people of Staten Island that this budget, that 14 this budget contains the right priorities and 15 is helping those who are the most vulnerable, 16 those with the greatest need. I've got to 17 tell a thousand children and their families 18 with developmental disabilities that somehow, 19 somehow a budget that spends more and taxes 20 more than has ever been spent and has ever 21 taxed in the history of the State of New York 22 somehow doesn't address their needs. 23 Where is the money being spent? 24 What are the priorities? I've talked to lots

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(518) 371-8910 1 of people on both sides of the aisle, and 2 there are a lot of questions, because the 3 process that brought us to this point was 4 severely flawed. I'd like to go home. I see 5 a lot of glazed-over faces. I see a lot of 6 empty chairs in the chamber. But this is the 7 first opportunity that the people of this 8 state have really heard with respect to some 9 of the details in this budget. 10 You know, and maybe people are numb 11 outside this chamber, and maybe they don't 12 listen to the words. And maybe it's our 13 fault. Maybe because it's more about spin 14 than it is about substance. And that's a 15 shame. And that's a disservice. 16 I have a quote here from a press 17 release. It says: "In this fiscal crisis, 18 taxes should be the last thing we consider, 19 not the first. Reducing the rate of growth in 20 our spending while investing in job creation 21 and sound economic development will put 22 New York back on the road to economic 23 recovery." 24 I could not agree more with any

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(518) 371-8910 1 statement that has been said. That was said 2 by the Majority Leader, Senator Smith. 3 The problem is this budget ignores 4 those words. This budget does not reflect the 5 sentiment of that statement. It seems like 6 taxes was the first, the second, and the last 7 thing that this budget did. 8 Another statement, same press 9 release: "At a time when so many working 10 families are struggling to make ends meet, 11 when the cost of everything from food to fuel 12 to tuition is increasing, it is essential that 13 government do all that it can to ease their 14 tax burden. We believe it is particularly 15 important not to increase the cost of those 16 basic quality-of-life products and services 17 that help families tolerate times of hardship 18 and uncertainty." 19 I take it back, there is a 20 statement that I can agree with more; it's 21 that one. That's from the Speaker of the 22 Assembly, Assemblyman Sheldon Silver. 23 The problem with that statement too 24 is that this budget ignores that statement,

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(518) 371-8910 1 just as this budget ignored the Majority 2 Leader's statement. 3 I agree, we should do everything we 4 can not increase the cost of those basic 5 quality-of-life products that people have to 6 spend their money on. So why are we 7 increasing the price of water? 8 And, just incidentally, the DEP in 9 New York City just announced a 16 percent 10 increase to water. So whether you buy a 11 bottle of water or you turn the tap on, this 12 budget's got you coming and going. 13 So why are we increasing the price? 14 And just for argument's sake, for the purpose 15 of my statement here, if people have to pay 16 it, whether it's a tax or a fee or an 17 assessment, I'm going call it a tax. Because 18 that's what it is to the people back home. 19 So why is it, then, if we mean 20 these words, if we mean these words, why is it 21 that we're putting a tax on healthcare? 22 Everyone talks about the need for universal 23 healthcare and the need to decrease the cost 24 of healthcare. This budget taxes it.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Why is it, then, if these words 2 mean something, why is it that we're putting a 3 tax on electricity? How is that helping the 4 people back home? Why is it, then, that we're 5 putting a tax on college tuition? That's 6 certainly a cost-of-living increase. That's 7 something, certainly a basic service that a 8 people deserve. Why is that we're doing that? 9 Why is it that we're taxing -- I 10 remember last year everyone was concerned with 11 the big evil oil companies gouging the good 12 people of this state every time they put the 13 key in the ignition and drove their cars. 14 They were the bad guys. They were making it 15 more expensive for people, good hardworking 16 families, to get around. 17 So if they were bad, what is this 18 budget that increases the cost for every 19 person that has a car and drives a car as a 20 means of getting around in this state? 21 Because the cost of your driver's license is 22 going up. 23 The driver's license plate you have 24 on the car? You may have gotten it yesterday,

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(518) 371-8910 1 but after this budget you've got to get a new 2 one. Turn it in. We want you to get a new 3 one. You have to get a new one. Why? So you 4 can pay $250. That's wrong. 5 Or you need auto insurance. Well, 6 what do we do to help you out there in this 7 budget? We tax it. You're paying for 8 insurance, and this budget says you've got to 9 pay a tax on top of it. 10 You know, a lot of people in this 11 room -- I know I did, I went around my 12 district, I heard the cries for help, I said I 13 would take that cry for help to Albany and I 14 would fight for them. And that's what I'm 15 doing here. That's why I'm not home. That's 16 why I'm willing to go on and speak on this 17 bill in the hopes that someone will listen. 18 You know, we hear about this 19 economic disaster, a lot of rhetoric. People 20 like to use it in speeches and as talking 21 points and as a pivot point and as a slogan 22 and as a way to blame someone who happens to 23 be in the other party. The worst since the 24 Great Depression. Words. Words. What do

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(518) 371-8910 1 they mean? Let me tell you what it means. 2 It means that people back home are 3 scared. They're worried that they're not 4 going to be able to afford to keep their 5 families living the lifestyle that they 6 deserve. They either have lost their job or 7 they're afraid they're going to lose a job or 8 they're afraid that their neighbor is going 9 lose a job. 10 This is not some exercise in 11 economics, a bunch of theory. Let me tell you 12 what a bad economy means for people. It means 13 they're afraid that they're not going to be 14 able to make ends meet and pay the bills. We 15 all said we were going to come to Albany and 16 help them. Here's the solution in this 17 budget: It's going to cost you more. It's 18 going to cost you more. 19 Average family on Staten Island, 20 just for the privilege of living there, under 21 this budget is going to spend $3,000 to $4,000 22 more. Not that they're getting a single 23 additional service, not one. Do what you're 24 doing now, and you're going to spend $3,000 to

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(518) 371-8910 1 $4,000 more. That's the solution? That's a 2 disgrace. They deserve better. 3 This is a bad budget. I've heard 4 it, I've heard it from Democrats and 5 Republicans. I've heard my friends on that 6 side of the aisle, some of you, say: "This is 7 a bad budget." Why would you ever vote for a 8 bad budget? Why? We come here to vote our 9 conscience. We come here to fight for the 10 people that send us here. If you think it's a 11 bad budget, vote no. We can do better. 12 Let me just say this. Talk about 13 spin, talk about words that get people sick 14 and tired and numb -- "fiscal restraint"? 15 I've heard that thrown around, that this 16 budget is an example of fiscal restraint. 17 That we've pulled back spending. I've heard 18 every excuse and explanation under the sun. 19 I'm not convinced. The people back home won't 20 be either. 21 I've heard the stimulus money is 22 not our money, it doesn't count. We don't 23 know whose pockets it comes from. Let me tell 24 you where it comes from. It comes from the

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(518) 371-8910 1 same place that every dollar in this budget 2 comes from. It comes from the taxpayers. 3 Whether we took it from them by way of the 4 federal government or we take it from them by 5 way of the state budget or we take it from 6 them by way of the city budget, it comes from 7 the taxpayers. 8 So let me just put it simply. Last 9 year the state spent $120 billion. This year, 10 wherever the money comes from -- and I just 11 told you where it comes from, it comes from 12 the taxpayers -- this budget spends 13 $132 billion. That's more money than was 14 spent last year. That's an increase. In 15 fact, it's a 10 percent increase. In fact, 16 it's unbridled spending. In fact, it's tax 17 and spend. 18 And where does it get the money? 19 Not just from the federal stimulus money -- 20 that in my opinion seems to be squandered in 21 this budget -- but it comes from a $7 billion 22 tax increase. In a state that, as Senator 23 Fuschillo pointed out, comes in just about 24 last or runner-up to last place with respect

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(518) 371-8910 1 to every tax burden we shackle the people of 2 this state with. 3 The stimulus money. I'm glad I 4 brought that up; I reminded myself. A lot of 5 talk on the news, a lot of complaints, a lot 6 of criticism with respect to what certain 7 companies are doing with the money. They're 8 buying corporate jets, they're having parties, 9 they're giving out bonuses. They're wasting 10 the money, according to a lot of people. 11 Mostly I hear -- but I think it's a bipartisan 12 complaint -- the money is being squandered. 13 That's what I hear. That's what I see. 14 We're going to take $7 billion of 15 that stimulus money, put it into this budget, 16 and we're not doing what the President asked 17 us to do -- cut taxes, put money in the 18 pockets of New Yorkers so they could spend it 19 and drive this economy. We're putting this 20 money in the budget so that we can go on a 21 spending spree. We make those CEOs look like 22 fiscal conservatives and prudent stewards of 23 the taxpayer dollars. 24 Reminds me of the guy, reminds me

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(518) 371-8910 1 of the guy who owns a house and the roof falls 2 in. He doesn't have the money to fix it, so 3 he takes a loan. When he gets the check, he 4 decides to go to the casino, and he blows it 5 at the crap table. And when he comes home, 6 he's further in debt, he's deeper in the hole. 7 And guess what? The rain's still pouring in. 8 That's what this budget does with 9 respect to this $7 billion in federal stimulus 10 money. It throws it down a deep hole. We're 11 wasting an opportunity. We're wasting an 12 opportunity here. 13 I said I wouldn't go on long; I 14 guess my words were not true. But this is -- 15 this is important. We shouldn't be throwing 16 words around. We have a solemn trust that was 17 given to us by the people. 18 What are you going to say when you 19 go back home, when the cost of everything that 20 people do in their ordinary lives costs more 21 because of this budget? What are you going to 22 tell them next year when things get worse 23 because we haven't created jobs and we 24 squandered the stimulus money? What are you

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(518) 371-8910 1 going to tell them? 2 I'm going to tell them that I did 3 my best, my very best to convince one of my 4 friends on the Democratic side of the aisle to 5 vote no. I'm hoping that the end of the story 6 has not been written. I'm hoping that I get 7 to go home and say that one of you stood up 8 with us and did that. 9 The truth of the matter is this is 10 the largest, most bloated and irresponsible 11 tax-and-spending spree in the history of the 12 State of New York. We can do better. It's 13 been said you can't dig yourself out of a 14 hole, and that's what we're doing in this 15 budget. 16 I urge you to join me and vote no 17 on this budget. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 19 you, Senator Lanza. 20 Senator Golden, on the bill. 21 SENATOR GOLDEN: Quickly, thank 22 you. I have one question, no follow-up, I 23 need from either Senator Oppenheimer or either 24 Carl or Liz.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And the question is, why do we 2 freeze the charter school funding? We know 3 that we reversed the formula, and that breaks 4 faith with the schools whose aid increases 5 have been based on total school operating 6 spending, not just on state aid. 7 And that's a two-year lag, which 8 means that we're frozen at the 2007 year. 9 Which means they missed the 2008 and the 2009 10 years, which are big hits. It cost the 11 charter schools $51 million, of which 12 $31 million went to the City of New York. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Carl Kruger, do you yield to a 15 question from Senator Golden? 16 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Rumor has 17 it I'm not Liz. Please, Senator Liz Krueger. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator Liz Krueger, do you yield to this 20 question from Senator Golden? 21 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Krueger yields. 24 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Could you

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(518) 371-8910 1 repeat the question? I'm sorry, Martin. 2 SENATOR GOLDEN: The charter 3 school funding has been frozen at the 2007 4 rates. Why was that frozen at all? Why 5 wasn't that allowed to continue to get its 6 funding? $51 million, $31 million of that 7 goes to the city schools. It's only 45,000 8 kids. Thirty thousand today are on waiting 9 lists to get into those schools. 10 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 11 Senator Golden. And in the absence of our 12 chair, Senator Oppenheimer, I'll do my best. 13 My understanding, having consulted 14 with our analyst, is that because we were 15 holding public school aid flat -- we were in 16 fact forced, because of the bad budget 17 situation, to hold their funding flat -- that 18 we also felt that we had to hold the charter 19 school funding flat as well, rather than 20 giving them the significant increase this 21 year. 22 And so it was simply a reality of 23 the tough economic times we find ourselves in. 24 SENATOR GOLDEN: Thank you.

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(518) 371-8910 1 On the bill. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator Golden, on the bill. 4 SENATOR GOLDEN: The problem 5 obviously with that is they put stimulus money 6 into the Board of Education and into education 7 across this state. So even though we hold 8 them flat, as a state we put in much more 9 spending than they ever would have received 10 with the stimulus dollars. 11 They should have been allowed to 12 get their increase. Since they're frozen at 13 2007 rates, it is going to be impossible for 14 them to be able to get where they've got to 15 be. Charter schools already get 30 percent 16 less funding than the school districts because 17 they have no building and certain 18 administration aid. Why widen this gap? 19 Charter schools are heavily reliant 20 on the funding formula, which provides as much 21 as 90 percent of their funding. They do not 22 have the ability to raise taxes. They don't 23 have the ability to get money from anyplace 24 else. That was the only place they could have

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(518) 371-8910 1 gotten that money. The stimulus denied money 2 going into those schools. The only way we 3 could have done it was at the state level. 4 Hopefully, we recognize that. 5 Hopefully, we can correct that so that we 6 correct that imbalance. 7 As I said, there are 30,000 kids 8 waiting to get into those schools. There are 9 45,000 kids in those schools. And that was a 10 $31 million hit just to the city and a 11 $15 million hit across the state. 12 I would have done it a little bit 13 differently; I'm sure everybody else has said 14 they would have done it a little bit 15 differently as well. It's all about 16 priorities and directing and redirecting those 17 monies. 18 But I definitely would not have 19 raised this budget to the $132 billion that 20 it's at today. And I wouldn't have hurt our 21 hospitals, our nursing homes, our assisted 22 living facilities, our adult homes, and our 23 home cares. And I would have made sure there 24 was property tax cap so that we couldn't spend

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(518) 371-8910 1 beyond our means, and have a spending cap to 2 make sure that we couldn't spend beyond our 3 means. We missed both of those opportunities 4 here in this bill. 5 Where could we have saved money? 6 Well, I don't know if I'd want to send money 7 into a welfare grant when we could have sent 8 money into education. Increasing the welfare 9 grant I don't think was really a great idea at 10 the cost of children. 11 And you know what, I don't think I 12 would have done this revamping of the drug 13 laws across the State of New York either, 14 especially when you see that you've only put 15 in, say, $50 million for treatment, some 16 $75 million for probation. It's probably 17 going to cost us somewhere -- the state and 18 the counties -- around $500 million this year 19 and could go as high as a billion to a 20 billion-five next year. I probably would not 21 have put that in. I probably would have 22 redirected that funding to its needs here in 23 the State of New York. 24 We missed great opportunities here.

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(518) 371-8910 1 I hope, as my colleague Andy Lanza has said, 2 that some of you recognize how bad this bill 3 is, that you join us and vote this bill down. 4 But I'm a realist. I know that you will vote 5 it up. 6 And that's unfortunate for the 7 taxpayers of this great state, and it's 8 unfortunate for all the families that live in 9 this great state, because less families will 10 live in this state next year. 11 Thank you. 12 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you, 13 Senator Golden. 14 The debate on Calendar 136 is now 15 closed. 16 I ask the Secretary to ring the 17 bells and request that all Senators proceed 18 immediately to the chamber so that we may 19 proceed with the roll call. 20 The Secretary will read the last 21 section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The

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(518) 371-8910 1 Secretary will call the roll slowly. 2 I simply remind all members who 3 wish to explain their vote of the two-minute 4 time limit that is in the rules of this house 5 for purposes of vote explanation. 6 The Secretary will call the roll 7 slowly. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Adams. 9 SENATOR ADAMS: Yes. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Addabbo. 11 SENATOR ADDABBO: Yes. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Alesi. 13 SENATOR ALESI: No. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator 15 Aubertine. 16 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bonacic. 18 SENATOR BONACIC: To explain my 19 vote. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Bonacic, to explain his vote. 22 SENATOR BONACIC: The Tax 23 Foundation, which has been around I think 24 since 1937, said that if this budget is passed

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(518) 371-8910 1 that the State of New York will claim the 2 mantle of America's worst tax code for 3 business. Congratulations. 4 I vote no. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Bonacic to be recorded in the 7 negative. 8 The Secretary will continue. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Breslin. 10 SENATOR BRESLIN: Yes. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator 12 DeFrancisco. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator DeFrancisco, to explain his vote. 15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I vote no 16 for several reasons, the most important of 17 which, we're in a recession, we spend 18 $7 billion -- at least that's the estimate we 19 get verbally -- of federal stimulus money and 20 still feel required to spend an additional 21 $5 billion of new taxes that we're imposing on 22 people who are losing their jobs. It is 23 absolutely wrong. 24 Secondly, it's not just the

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(518) 371-8910 1 Republican conference here in the Senate 2 saying that, it's the Comptroller, the 3 Democrat Comptroller Tom DiNapoli, who says 4 this budget is not a good way to do business, 5 we're simply postponing a problem to another 6 day, relying on one-shots and not doing any 7 structural change. 8 Third, there's better ways to do 9 it. Consolidation, cost-cutting, doing things 10 that families are doing in their households. 11 And lastly, with respect to the 12 process, we don't even know how much total 13 stimulus money we have, where it went, and we 14 have no conception of what the spending really 15 is being used for in this particular budget. 16 So for all of those reasons, I vote 17 no. And it's a shame we don't have at least 18 one Democrat voting with us, especially when 19 many of the courageous Democrats that are 20 upstate Democrats voted no in the Assembly on 21 this horrible budget. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator DeFrancisco to be recorded in the 24 negative.

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(518) 371-8910 1 The Secretary will continue. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Diaz. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Diaz, to explain his vote. 5 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes. Today is a 6 day that the Lord has made. Today we are 7 taxing the rich and not the poor. Today we 8 are not balancing the budget on the back of 9 the poor. 10 So yes, Senator Bonacic, I proudly 11 and gladly accept your congratulations. 12 I'm voting yes. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Diaz to be recorded in the 15 affirmative. 16 The Secretary will continue. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Dilan. 18 SENATOR DILAN: Yes. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Duane. 20 SENATOR DUANE: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 22 SENATOR ESPADA: Yes. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 24 SENATOR FARLEY: No.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Flanagan. 2 SENATOR FLANAGAN: No. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Foley. 4 SENATOR FOLEY: Aye. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator 6 Fuschillo. 7 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Quickly to 8 explain my vote. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Fuschillo, to explain his vote. 11 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Senator 12 Bonacic said New York will become -- "Make New 13 York's taxes the worst in the country." 14 "Paterson fears budget may not work" -- it's 15 not even adopted yet. Newsday said the budget 16 is very negative for Long Island. 17 The Governor had said -- when 18 Speaker Silver wanted to impose the tax, the 19 PIT, the Governor said he warned of the risk 20 of such a move earlier this month: When we 21 have raised taxes in the past, we have seen 22 loss of job growth almost immediately. 23 The Business Council is outraged 24 over more than $7 billion in new taxes. "Tom

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(518) 371-8910 1 DiNapoli rips fellow Dems on the budget." 2 We're losing $685 in Nassau County, 3 $667 in Suffolk County. The senior citizens 4 are losing a lot more by taking away the 5 rebate check. It raises taxes, it spends too 6 much and provides no property tax relief. 7 I vote no. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 9 Senator Fuschillo to be recorded in the 10 negative. 11 The Secretary will continue. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Golden. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Golden, to explain his vote. 15 SENATOR GOLDEN: Real quickly. 16 Again, I'm going to plead with my 17 colleagues across the other side of the aisle. 18 That charter school hit is a $51 million hit 19 to that charter school industry -- that's not 20 the industry, that's to the children. 21 $31 million of that money is to the City of 22 New York, to the children in the City of 23 New York, in the inner cities, that are frozen 24 at a 2007 aid dollar.

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(518) 371-8910 1 We cannot allow that to continue. 2 Hopefully, you find money to make that cut up 3 for our children. As these children in the 4 balcony here, they want to make sure that the 5 dollars go to their schools, we want to make 6 sure that dollars go across the state to all 7 of our children in all of our schools that are 8 public schools. 9 I vote no. Thank you. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 11 Senator Golden to be recorded in the negative. 12 The Secretary will continue. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Griffo. 14 SENATOR GRIFFO: No. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator Hannon, to explain his vote. 18 SENATOR HANNON: I wasn't going 19 to speak, Mr. President, but one of the 20 greater misleading stories about this tax 21 package is that it's a millionaire's tax or 22 it's a tax on the rich, as one of the 23 Democratic Senators just said. 24 The reality is this is a

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(518) 371-8910 1 middle-class tax hike throughout the state. 2 It's not justified. And it should be 3 rejected. 4 I vote no. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Hannon to be recorded in the negative. 7 The Secretary will continue. 8 THE SECRETARY: With unanimous 9 consent, Senator Hassell-Thompson voted in the 10 affirmative April 2. 11 Senator Huntley. 12 SENATOR HUNTLEY: Yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator C. 14 Johnson. 15 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator O. 17 Johnson. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator Owen Johnson, to explain his vote. 20 SENATOR OWEN JOHNSON: Well, we 21 certainly learned a lot from those who spoke, 22 especially on this side, about the effect of 23 this budget on families. It's been said that 24 costs for each family are going to go up

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(518) 371-8910 1 $3,000 or $5,000 more. 2 But some people don't realize what 3 that means. The middle-class people that I 4 know are living just about up to the income 5 they have now. They don't have extra money to 6 give $3,000 or $4,000 or $5,000 away to the 7 government. But it's being taken from them. 8 There's going to be a heavy negative effect. 9 Now, when your expenses get out of 10 line sometimes, you get a part-time job or 11 your wife will go to work, your husband will 12 go to work, your kids get a part-time job. 13 There's no jobs out there. How are they going 14 to pay this money? 15 Do you care, does anybody over 16 there care how people are going to live with 17 this extra burden that the state is putting on 18 them, that we're putting on them now? I guess 19 not. Nobody wants to support the bill that 20 knocks down some of these additional taxes and 21 fees. 22 You know, it's -- I guess it's 23 about the most irresponsible budget I've ever 24 seen in my 37 years. And I've asked before,

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(518) 371-8910 1 when we talked about the drug law, who devised 2 this scheme to let these druggies out? Nobody 3 knows. Who devised this scheme to tax and 4 burden all these people? Nobody knows. It 5 just showed up here. Some of your people 6 brought it out, and we're supposed to say yes 7 or no. 8 That's not a good answer. It's the 9 only answer we have right now. Vote no on 10 this bill. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator Owen Johnson to be recorded in the 13 negative. 14 The Secretary will continue. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Klein. 16 SENATOR KLEIN: Yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 18 Senator Klein in the affirmative. 19 The Secretary will continue. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator L. 21 Krueger. 22 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator C. 24 Kruger.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lanza. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Lanza, to explain his vote. 5 SENATOR LANZA: Very briefly. 6 You know, it's not just that we're 7 spending too much in this budget, taxing too 8 much in this budget. If there were value, at 9 least you can show people what they're 10 getting. 11 The problem with this budget is 12 that the taxpayers are paying for caviar and 13 they're getting tuna fish. 14 I vote no. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 16 Senator Lanza to be recorded in the negative. 17 The Secretary will continue. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 20 Senator Larkin, to explain his vote. 21 SENATOR LARKIN: Thank you, 22 Mr. President. 23 You know, I've been listening here 24 for a few days, and then again I hear Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Krueger tell us about all the great things in 2 the money -- I guess there's something coming 3 out of the Governor's office that's for the 4 Majority and some that's coming out for the 5 rest of us people back in the hills. 6 This says $24 billion, plus there 7 are 14 items to be determined, with no money 8 on it. So are we getting 24 or getting 9 something else? 10 And then I hear this is a 11 millionaire tax. Well, I don't know any 12 millionaires in my area that go fishing and 13 have to pay a new fee. The STAR rebates. You 14 know, they're not dumb people. That's why 15 they're writing us and asking us, Why are you 16 doing this? Why are you doing this to us? 17 I remember people in this chamber 18 when we did the STAR the first time, they had 19 press releases out the kazoo, look what I did 20 for you. Are you going to write them now and 21 tell them, Look what I just did to you? 22 You ought to be ashamed of 23 yourself. This is a disgrace. It's not a 24 savior. What I'd like to know, does anybody

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(518) 371-8910 1 on that side of the aisle want to stand up and 2 tell me what you're going to do in the budget 3 for 2010-2011 when there's no more stimulus 4 and there's no more money to tax? 5 I vote no. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 7 Senator Larkin to be recorded in the negative. 8 The Secretary will continue. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 11 Senator LaValle, to explain his vote. 12 SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you, 13 Mr. President. 14 I see this budget and the taxes as 15 being an effort by the Democrat Senators of 16 redistributing the wealth. I listen to 17 Senator Diaz, who celebrates this as a tax on 18 the rich. 19 I say again, the people of the 20 First District, the people of Long Island, are 21 not rich. And to listen to a member being so 22 cavalier -- thank you, Senator Padavan -- 23 about the treatment of people in a part of the 24 state and throughout the state, it's not a

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(518) 371-8910 1 good thing. 2 The spending in this budget is out 3 of control. The distribution of that spending 4 is not done in a fair and equitable way. And 5 so I cast my vote in the negative. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 7 Senator LaValle to be recorded in the 8 negative. 9 The Secretary will continue. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator Leibell, to explain his vote. 13 SENATOR LEIBELL: Thank you, 14 Mr. President. 15 For many months now we have 16 listened to news reports in the national media 17 about the condition of our country's economy. 18 We've listened to national reports on our 19 state's economy. And now we've had a report 20 coming in from our State Comptroller telling 21 us what serious problems this budget will 22 create for our state looking into the future. 23 But even more significant than any 24 of those reports are the ones that we've heard

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(518) 371-8910 1 from our constituents, our neighbors, those 2 who live at home in our districts. And 3 they're letting us know that this budget will 4 wreck them. 5 We are already the highest-taxed. 6 Now we're going to a level beyond that, if 7 possible. This budget will have a serious 8 impact on the future of this state for many, 9 many years to come. It's a disastrous budget. 10 I vote in the negative. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator Leibell to be recorded in the 13 negative. 14 The Secretary will continue. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous, 16 voting the negative earlier today. 17 Senator Little. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator Little, to explain her vote. 20 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you, 21 Mr. President. 22 In the conversation, in the debate 23 that we have had today, many, many reasons 24 have been brought out as to why we should vote

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(518) 371-8910 1 against this budget. I've listed several 2 reasons for me that are among the top reasons 3 I am going to vote no. 4 Number one would be ending the STAR 5 rebate checks, causing property taxes to rise. 6 Having no mandate relief for our schools; 7 therefore, those school taxes may rise even 8 higher. 9 There are tax and fee increases for 10 our middle-income New Yorkers on their energy 11 costs, their heating costs, their health 12 insurance premiums, their motor vehicle 13 registrations, license plates, driver's 14 licenses. 15 There is a SUNY sweep, which will 16 affect middle-income New Yorkers. Eighty 17 percent of that tuition goes to the General 18 Fund for agencies, not to the SUNY system. 19 And the personal income tax on 20 individuals, partnerships, and Chapter C 21 corps -- who will get hit by this? You know, 22 one group that I thought of that we've worked 23 very, very hard to attract in Northern 24 New York is doctors. We have a difficult time

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(518) 371-8910 1 getting physicians to come to the six 2 hospitals I represent. 3 Two years ago we did Doctors Across 4 New York, and we rejoiced in the fact that we 5 had an incentive for them. This tax increase 6 neutralizes that. 7 We know we are the highest-taxed 8 state in the United States. Now we are higher 9 than the highest-taxed state. And not only do 10 New York millionaires -- what are left of 11 them -- have an almost 9 percent personal 12 income tax, but they can only use the standard 13 deduction. And I have a concern as to how 14 that affects our charitable organizations in 15 New York State. 16 And the last and most important 17 reason is $132 billion is too much spending in 18 this economy. The stimulus money is supposed 19 to improve our economy. But when you combine 20 that stimulus money with the taxes and fees in 21 this budget and the spending in this budget, 22 the stimulus money will end up stimulating the 23 exodus of New Yorkers from New York. 24 I vote no.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Little to be recorded in the negative. 3 The Secretary will continue. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator 5 Marcellino. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 7 Senator Marcellino, to explain his vote. 8 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you, 9 Mr. President. 10 I'm in receipt of a copy of a 11 letter from Matthew Crosson of the Long Island 12 Association to Senators Johnson and Foley. 13 "Dear Craig and Brian: 14 "With personal respect to your 15 stated reasons for voting in favor of this 16 budget, it makes no sense. If you vote in 17 favor of this budget, you will not be voting 18 to start the recovery. And Senator Johnson 19 was quoted in a blog article as saying 'You 20 will be obstructing the recovery.' There is 21 nothing in this budget that will encourage 22 economic recovery, and there is a great deal, 23 including $9 billion in effective new taxes, 24 that will hinder it."

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(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President, along the lines of 2 the so-called taxing on the rich, if you 3 increase New York State's maximum account to 4 10 percent, the top rate -- the feds have 5 already raised their top rate to 40 percent. 6 If you lived in New York City, that's 4 more 7 percent. You're talking 54 percent of your 8 income. 9 If you live on Long Island, you 10 already pay, in my district, $5,000 annually 11 just to go to work in the city, including the 12 subway and including cab and bus fares. 13 You add to that Senator Dilan's 14 call for increasing the commuter tax and you 15 add to that the MTA proposal to increase rates 16 and fees, including a mobility tax on 17 everybody in the western world, including 18 bridges and tunnels -- you have property tax 19 increases; the removal of the STAR program in 20 the rebate checks; increases in utility rates; 21 bottled water, we're going to raise the fees 22 on that soon; the cost of food will go up; the 23 cost of fuel has gone up; increasing 24 everything under the sun -- how are people

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(518) 371-8910 1 supposed to live here? How are people 2 supposed to stay in this state and survive 3 here? 4 This is ridiculous. This budget 5 spends too much, taxes too much, and leaves us 6 in a tremendous hole for the future and will 7 destroy us in future years. 8 I vote no. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Marcellino to be recorded in the 11 negative. 12 The Secretary will continue. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz. 14 SENATOR MAZIARZ: No. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator McDonald. 16 SENATOR McDONALD: No. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator 18 Monserrate. 19 SENATOR MONSERRATE: Aye. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator 21 Montgomery. 22 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Aye. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Morahan. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Morahan, to explain his vote. 2 SENATOR MORAHAN: Thank you, 3 Mr. President. 4 As we wind down this budget 5 process, I see budgeting that raises taxes, 6 income, drinking water, fees, a budget that 7 removes the rebate checks, a budget that 8 provides no mandate relief, a budget that does 9 not allow for certain school districts to 10 allow state aid to be used as they see fit, a 11 budget that works against small business, the 12 moms-and-pops, the backbone of our economy, 13 works against our farmers, a budget that 14 really works against the families of New York, 15 a budget that will leave this state in an ever 16 more precarious financial situation two years 17 out. 18 But notwithstanding that, this is a 19 budget that spends over 10 percent over last 20 year, a budget soundly criticized by many, 21 including the Comptroller of the State of 22 New York. But it's no surprise. It was 23 crafted by three people in a room in total 24 secret, without debate.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And I want to compliment my 2 colleagues in the Republican conference for 3 all of the debate and comments and issues that 4 we brought forth in this debate to make at 5 least the guts of this budget made public to 6 the people of the State of New York. 7 Thank you, Mr. President. I vote 8 no. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Morahan to be recorded in the 11 negative. 12 The Secretary will continue. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nozzolio. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Senator Nozzolio, to explain his vote. 16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, 17 Mr. President. 18 The Tax Foundation has just 19 reported that with this budget, New York again 20 becomes America's worst state for taxes in all 21 of the 50 states. 22 And my biggest concern in voting no 23 on this budget is that the budget drives jobs 24 out of New York State. It's going to have a

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(518) 371-8910 1 devastating impact on the entire economy of 2 the state. And to hit individuals, 3 homeowners, families, businesses with tax 4 hikes at this very critically challenging time 5 in our economy will ensure that New York State 6 will be the state to be the deepest into the 7 recession and will linger longer and suffer 8 longer in that recession. 9 And I believe this budget 10 unfortunately gives us the opportunity to be 11 the longest of the 50 states in the economic 12 recession that we are now experiencing across 13 our country. 14 It's the wrong proposal at the 15 wrong time, Mr. President, and that's why I'm 16 voting no. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 18 Senator Nozzolio to be recorded in the 19 negative. 20 The Secretary will continue. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Onorato. 22 SENATOR ONORATO: Aye. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator 24 Oppenheimer.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Aye. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 3 SENATOR PADAVAN: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Parker. 5 SENATOR PARKER: Aye. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Perkins. 7 SENATOR PERKINS: Aye. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator 9 Ranzenhofer. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 11 Senator Ranzenhofer, to explain his vote. 12 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: I'm voting 13 no on this budget for the following 11 14 reasons, Mr. President. 15 It spends more than 10 percent, 16 more than $10 billion, over last year. It's 17 more than seven times greater than the rate of 18 inflation, which is ridiculous. It's bad for 19 Western New York and kills jobs. 20 The budget is not balanced. The 21 budget is rejected by the Comptroller as 22 unsound. 23 It relies on one-shot federal 24 stimulus money which will not be repeated in

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(518) 371-8910 1 future years, has job-killing utility and 2 healthcare taxes which will hurt the 3 low-income and middle-income people. It will 4 cost us $2400 more per family per year as a 5 result of this action today. 6 It's laden with pork and patronage. 7 It raises property taxes by eliminating the 8 STAR program and will continue to drive kids 9 from New York State. 10 I vote no. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator Ranzenhofer to be recorded in the 13 negative. 14 The Secretary will continue. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Robach. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator Robach, to explain his vote. 18 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes, just very 19 quickly. For a point of clarity, as one of my 20 colleagues from over there mentioned me by 21 name and blurted out his little deal here. 22 I am voting against this budget not 23 so much for the tax that he talked about but 24 the $3.9 billion of taxes that are going to be

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(518) 371-8910 1 on the people I represent. 2 Senator Stavisky was nice enough to 3 point to me that I don't have a lot of 4 millionaires in my district. Correct. But I 5 do have a lot of middle-class people, I have a 6 lot of low-income people, and they are going 7 to eat $3.9 billion worth of taxes, fees, 8 elimination of the STAR program -- which is 9 one of the great things about where I live, 10 almost everybody can own a home because 11 they're not quite as inflated as they are 12 certainly in downstate New York. This is 13 going to help eliminate that. 14 And for them, not only do I feel 15 obligated, but it screams out for a no vote. 16 And so I cast my vote in the negative, 17 Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator Robach to be recorded in the negative. 20 The Secretary will continue. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Saland, to explain his vote. 24 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. 2 Mr. President, I had a conversation 3 last night with my wife, who was watching much 4 of this proceeding on television, and she said 5 to me: "Why would anybody stay here if they 6 can leave? Or why would anybody come here?" 7 Based upon what she saw in the exchanges in 8 the debate on the various bills that she 9 happened to observe. 10 We heard talk today about 11 commentary about people talking about the need 12 of the state to stimulate the economy. That's 13 more appropriately a federal role or more 14 appropriately done by the federal government. 15 Again, they can print money. They don't have 16 to balance their budget. We can play at the 17 margins, and that's even true during good 18 economic times. 19 Ann Davis, professor at Marist 20 College of economics, very well known in our 21 area, basically makes that point in a recent 22 piece in our local newspaper, the Poughkeepsie 23 Journal. She says yeah, there's some more 24 capacity -- I'm paraphrasing her -- to tax the

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(518) 371-8910 1 wealthy than at the federal level. However, 2 the con is that wealthy people are mobile. If 3 taxes are lower in neighboring states, they 4 can simple relocate. And I quote her, "It's 5 difficult for states to do it on their own 6 without coordination." 7 There's no media outlet of any 8 significance that has embraced this budget. 9 In fact, they virtually uniform condemned it 10 for being absolutely horrendous. Tax and 11 spend in a good economy is perhaps imprudent 12 or unwise. Tax and spend in a severe 13 recession and a horrendous economy is sheer 14 lunacy. 15 I vote in the negative. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator Saland to be recorded in the negative. 18 The Secretary will continue. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sampson. 20 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Savino. 22 SENATOR SAVINO: Yes. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator 24 Schneiderman.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Serrano. 3 SENATOR SERRANO: Yes. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Seward, to explain his vote. 7 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, very 8 briefly to explain my vote. 9 I think there's one thing that 10 members on both sides of the aisle can agree 11 on, and that is that we are truly in an 12 economic crisis, we are truly in a budget 13 crisis. And putting together the 2009-2010 14 budget, we are at a fork in the road. And 15 coming from the Cooperstown area, the Baseball 16 Hall of Fame, I like to quote that great 17 philosopher Yogi Berra, who said "When you 18 come to a fork in the road, take it." 19 And we do have a choice here of 20 which fork to take, whether it be one as tax 21 and spend and business as usual, as this 22 budget proposal and this bill before us 23 suggests, or we can take the fork of economic 24 development, new jobs, revitalization of our

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(518) 371-8910 1 state. 2 Because it seems to me that the 3 only way we're going to get out of these 4 current economic problems is to have a 5 healthier job-creating economy in this state. 6 And nothing in this budget suggests that will 7 be the result if this budget becomes law. 8 Every single business group that I 9 know of has told us, whether it be the Long 10 Island Association to the Unshackle Upstate 11 group, and everybody in between, has told us 12 this is a disastrous budget for the people who 13 create jobs in the State of New York. 14 The answer is very simple, 15 Mr. President. The answer is no. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator Seward to be recorded in the negative. 18 The Secretary will continue. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 20 (Senator Skelos was recorded as 21 voting in the negative.) 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 23 (Senator Smith was recorded as 24 voting in the affirmative.)

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Squadron. 2 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator 4 Stachowski. 5 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky. 7 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator 9 Stewart-Cousins. 10 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: Yes. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Thompson. 12 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Valesky. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Aye. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker. 16 SENATOR VOLKER: No. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Winner. 18 SENATOR WINNER: No. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Young. 20 SENATOR YOUNG: No. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 22 Secretary will announce the results. 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 32. Nays, 24 30.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 2 bill is passed. 3 Senator Klein. 4 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 5 staying on the controversial calendar, can we 6 please take up Calendar Number 138. 7 And the Minority has agreed to 8 waive the explanation. Please call on Senator 9 Flanagan so he can introduce the said 10 amendments. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 12 Secretary will place Calendar Number 132 13 before the house. 14 The Secretary will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 138, substituted April 1, Assembly Budget 17 Bill, Assembly Print Number 159B, an act to 18 amend Chapter 279 of the Laws of 1998 amending 19 the Transportation Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator Flanagan, there is an amendment at the 22 desk. Without objection, the reading is 23 waived, and you may now speak on the 24 amendment.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you, 2 Mr. President. 3 There are two amendments at the 4 desk, the first one being offered by Senator 5 Nozzolio and Senator Maziarz. And I would ask 6 that you would recognize Senator Nozzolio. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 8 Senator Nozzolio, on the amendment. 9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, 10 Mr. President and my colleagues. 11 The amendment that we are offering 12 today is three-pronged. First, I will be 13 discussing the elimination of the 18-A 14 assessment charged to our utility consumers 15 through the utility companies of New York 16 State. 17 The second aspect of our amendment 18 will discuss the Power for Jobs program. And 19 the third aspect of the amendment will be 20 presented by Senator Maziarz, who has led the 21 effort to eliminate or stop and block the 22 sweep of Power Authority funds into the 23 General Fund. 24 Mr. President and colleagues, the

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(518) 371-8910 1 proposed section of the budget that is now 2 before us will undoubtedly raise New Yorkers' 3 gas and electric bills over a half a billion 4 dollars in the next year alone. This energy 5 tax is a joint step backward for job 6 development in New York State. At a time when 7 homeowners, senior citizens, families and 8 businesses can least afford it, this tax 9 alone, an 800 percent increase over last year, 10 will undoubtedly raise the energy bills of all 11 New Yorkers. 12 It robs people. It robs 13 opportunity. It ensures that those who are 14 planning to bring jobs, new jobs, into the 15 economy of this nation will reject New York 16 State. 17 We already have the federal 18 government indicating that New York has the 19 highest or second-highest utility rates in all 20 of the continental United States. And this 21 tax placed on our utility consumers is by far 22 a considerable regressive tax. 23 The Buffalo News has commented and 24 quoted representatives from the Business

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(518) 371-8910 1 Council to say that if we are to see economic 2 recovery, we have to reduce the costs and 3 remove obstacles to job creation. 4 Ratcheting up energy taxes in this 5 economy is a huge step backward. My region, a 6 region that I am honored to represent, from 7 Syracuse to Rochester, the Southern Tier to 8 Lake Ontario, has many job opportunities 9 because of the great natural resources that 10 exist there. But when push comes to shove, 11 time and time again businesses tell us that 12 the biggest impediment to job growth in 13 New York State is energy costs. 14 It's so difficult now to compete 15 with Pennsylvania and Ohio for energy for 16 jobs, because jobs go where energy is easier 17 to produce and easier to consume. And what we 18 have in New York, even with the tremendous 19 renewable resource of Niagara Falls -- when 20 people talk about renewable energy, Niagara 21 Falls is the greatest source of renewable 22 energy in this nation if not the world. 23 But when people see that New York's 24 reliable renewable energy sources are flowing

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(518) 371-8910 1 through utilities that are taxed and regulated 2 and taxed again and then taxed again, by the 3 time that energy gets to the businesses or the 4 consumers of this state, it is costlier than 5 energy developed in other states, particularly 6 our neighbors of Pennsylvania and Ohio. 7 All this talk about green jobs 8 falls very flat, because the jobs that we have 9 now are going to hemorrhage even more out of 10 this state as utility costs are increased. 11 The sum and substance of these 12 amendments, Mr. President, is to take away an 13 enormous cost of providing energy to consumers 14 of this state, to take a tax that was never 15 intended to be such a broad-based tax -- it 16 was originally designed in the 1930s, 18-A was 17 originally designed in the 1930s to pay for 18 the cost of regulation, the cost of running 19 the Public Service Commission. 20 Well, Mr. President and my 21 colleagues, the costs of this tax far exceed 22 the costs associated with regulating our 23 utilities and energy in this state. We 24 certainly need to take a look at why

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(518) 371-8910 1 businesses -- which in this economy can't 2 control much, but they can control where they 3 make their products and particularly the cost 4 of energy in the location where they make 5 those products. They're just going to make 6 products in places that are less expensive, 7 places that are not as onerous a tax burden as 8 we see this budget placing on all of 9 New Yorkers. 10 The last portion of my discussion 11 in explaining this amendment goes to Power for 12 Jobs. Power for Jobs is a program that is 13 essential, a lifeblood program to upstate 14 manufacturers. And that this Power for Jobs 15 program is in jeopardy. Unless we act 16 clearly, swiftly, and with some dynamic 17 effort, we will lose this incentive for the 18 few businesses that are still here. And if we 19 do that, it's a foolhardy move. 20 So this amendment restores the 21 Power for Jobs program and makes it strong 22 once again. 23 Thank you, Mr. President, for the 24 opportunity to explain my portion of this

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(518) 371-8910 1 amendment. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 3 you, Senator Nozzolio. 4 Senator Maziarz, on the amendment. 5 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you very 6 much, Mr. President. 7 Just by way of information, 8 Mr. President, I want to make one thing clear. 9 We are talking on the amendment right now. We 10 will be taking up the bill in just a few short 11 minutes. 12 My part of this amendment is to 13 offer an amendment to rescind the sweep that 14 this Senate approved by one vote back on 15 February 3rd when they took $550 million out 16 of the Niagara and St. Lawrence power projects 17 and sent it to Albany. 18 Congressman Brian Higgins from the 19 City of Buffalo said that that action by this 20 Legislature, that sweep by the State 21 Legislature of New York Power Authority funds 22 into the state's General Fund, took more 23 resources out of Western New York in one day, 24 more resources out of Western New York in one

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(518) 371-8910 1 day, Congressman Higgins said, than the 2 Niagara Power Project has given to Western 3 New York in 50 years. 4 Senator Schumer was much more 5 precise. He called the actions of those 6 32 Senators a disgrace. 7 Thank you, Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 9 you, Senator Maziarz. 10 Senator Volker, on the amendment. 11 SENATOR VOLKER: Mr. President, 12 you know, there's been a lot of talk about the 13 fact that the budget is really paid for by the 14 wealthy. Of course, we know that that's not 15 true. But here probably may be the most 16 glaring example of how this budget is not paid 17 for by the wealthy. 18 18-A, as has been cited, has been 19 around for a lot of years. I was chairman of 20 Energy many years ago, and one of the things 21 that I fought against was when governors and 22 even various legislators wanted to increase 23 that to use to fund various projects and so 24 forth.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And there's a reason for it. The 2 Bureau of the Budget loves this, by the way, 3 because it's an indirect tax. They love 4 indirect taxes. They love taxes that come to 5 people from some other direction and you don't 6 really know, or at least they don't think you 7 know it comes from the State of New York. 8 An 800 percent increase in this 9 assessment. What it means is -- and I looked 10 at my industries. In every county in my 11 district, it endangers a major business: 12 Steuben Foods, Moog Valve, Quebecor -- which 13 is in Cheektowaga, Village of Depew and 14 Cheektowaga, in mine and Bill Stachowski's 15 districts. 16 That industry has been teetering, 17 and the president of the company has told me 18 that he is fighting to keep that facility in 19 Depew. And in fact, Quebecor I believe is in 20 bankruptcy internationally. 21 Barilla Foods, pasta. Buffalo 22 Tungsten, that many of you may have heard of, 23 but is actually right near where I live in 24 Depew. And Constellation Brands, in Ontario

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(518) 371-8910 1 County. 2 But you know, there's another group 3 that hasn't been mentioned a lot here that 4 uses a lot of power. There is a gentleman I 5 spoke to just the other day -- I won't mention 6 his name, although he wouldn't care -- he has 7 a thousand cows on his farm. He was telling 8 us that he is now losing a thousand dollars a 9 year on every one of his cows. 10 You say, well, what's the big deal 11 with electricity? Well, this change in the 12 electrical rates could cost him $200 more lost 13 per cow. 14 Now, I want to tell you that 15 farmers use a tremendous amount of 16 electricity, especially the big farms. And I 17 happen to know that Senator Young has one that 18 is more than teetering, it's talking about 19 moving right out of the state. 20 The problem is that we really don't 21 understand that gas and electric, particularly 22 in our region, although the rates are so much 23 higher in downstate New York -- but there's 24 something that you've got to know about

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(518) 371-8910 1 Western New York. We have some weather. We 2 have to use a lot of energy. We have to use 3 gas and we have to use a lot of electric at 4 times because it snows and it gets cold 5 sometimes. For the farmers, it's a terrific 6 cost. 7 So I just want to say that it not 8 only hits residential people -- and this is a 9 big, big, big deal -- it not only hurts big 10 businesses, it hurts small businesses. But 11 really hurts the biggest industry in this 12 state, which is farmers. 13 Personally, if you wanted to do an 14 amendment and knock something out of here that 15 probably, maybe not on the most major basis, 16 but would have a major impact on every one of 17 our constituents, this is it. This is it. 18 This and the health care assessment. These 19 two alone would have major, major impacts on 20 all our constituents. 21 So all I can say is I ask you to 22 please consider this. There certainly are 23 better ways to fund the budget than an 24 800 percent increase in 18-A. And frankly,

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(518) 371-8910 1 there was a much better way to do it than to 2 assess every person who uses healthcare. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 4 you, Senator Volker. 5 Senator Ranzenhofer, on the 6 amendment. 7 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Thank you, 8 Mr. President. 9 As you can tell from the previous 10 speakers, we're all from upstate or Western 11 New York, because this is a particularly 12 important issue. This is about energy 13 affordability. 14 And this is not about a 15 millionaire's tax or just for people that own 16 real property. This affects every resident in 17 the state. This doesn't affect high-income 18 people alone, this affects low-income people, 19 moderate-income people, across the board. 20 These are going to be the folks who are going 21 to have the most difficult time paying this 22 new tax. And you've heard all the facts and 23 figures from some of the previous Senators 24 that have spoken.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Just to echo a couple of the 2 comments from Senators Nozzolio and Volker and 3 Maziarz, this kills jobs. I was out in 4 Tonawanda not too long ago talking with an 5 office furniture company. And when this tax 6 goes in, they're cutting back on their 7 employees, they're cutting back on their 8 employees' hours, because they just don't have 9 any margins anymore to make it work. 10 Whether you're talking about a 11 small business that has from two to 50, 12 whether you're talking about General Motors, 13 which is located in my district, and they have 14 to decide, when they have plants throughout 15 the state, where are they going to shut down 16 and where are they going to stay. And if 17 energy is not affordable, they're leaving. 18 And you talk about agriculture as 19 well. Very labor-intensive, very 20 energy-intensive. This is just bad for small, 21 medium and big business. This is bad for 22 poor, middle-income and rich folks. This is 23 just bad, bad, bad all across the board. It's 24 all about energy affordability, and this makes

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(518) 371-8910 1 it unaffordable. 2 Thank you, Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 4 you, Senator Ranzenhofer. 5 The question is on the nonsponsor 6 motion to amend Calendar Number 138. All in 7 agreement please indicate by raising your 8 hand. 9 The Secretary will announce the 10 results. 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 30. Nays, 12 29. 13 Excused, Senator Hassell-Thompson. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 15 motion fails. 16 Senator Flanagan. 17 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you, 18 Mr. President. 19 There's a second amendment at the 20 desk. I would ask that you waive its reading 21 and give Senator Marcellino an opportunity to 22 explain it, please. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: There 24 is an amendment at the desk. Without

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(518) 371-8910 1 objection, the reading of the amendment is 2 waived and, Senator Marcellino, you are 3 recognized to speak on the amendment. 4 May we have some quiet in the 5 chamber, please. Thank you. 6 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yes, 7 Mr. President, on the amendment. 8 This budget would take the 9 Environmental Protection Fund and reduce it 10 from the $300 million, which is current law, 11 permanently to $222 million as a result, if 12 this budget passes intact. 13 This amendment would restore the 14 EPF, which is the economic engine which drives 15 the environmental movement in this state. It 16 is absolutely necessary for the preservation 17 of open space, clean air, clean water, and 18 just about every other project that is 19 environmentally related -- from renewable 20 energy to parks preservation to agricultural 21 programs, you name it. Breast cancer 22 research, solar initiatives, zoos and 23 botanical gardens, all funded through the EPF. 24 By lowering this money, by taking

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(518) 371-8910 1 this money away, some $78 million, we have set 2 the EPF back in funding a full decade. This 3 is not a good idea. This is not a good idea. 4 It took us a long time to get the 5 EPF here. When I first took over the 6 Environmental Committee, the EPF was at 7 $25 million and unfunded. There was no money 8 behind it. We had to scratch and claw and beg 9 and borrow -- I won't say steal, but some 10 would have thought we had -- to get the money 11 to fund the programs necessary to preserve and 12 protect our environment. 13 This program is important. The EPF 14 is important. The funding stream is 15 particularly important. It needs a reliable 16 funding stream. It was always funded through 17 the real estate transfer tax -- and some 18 additional fees, but the transfer tax was the 19 tax in it. 20 There's an attempt here to change 21 that a little bit. We've put the real estate 22 transfer tax back a little bit, but there is 23 now some fees on pesticide permits and so 24 forth, and various application fees, some of

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(518) 371-8910 1 which were raised and tripled to get to a 2 certain fund and add the money into it, which 3 is not a good idea. 4 The EPF is too important to rely 5 upon risky or unaccountable funding or 6 unreliable funding streams. We need a 7 reliable funding stream for this program. 8 These programs, these issues are extremely 9 important to the state, to the quality of life 10 of every citizen in the State of New York. No 11 matter what region of the state you live in, 12 from Long Island to Buffalo, it doesn't 13 matter; the environment is key. 14 Mr. President, this amendment would 15 restore the funding of the EPF and restore the 16 full funding through the real estate transfer 17 tax. I urge everyone who is environmentally 18 concerned -- and that is, I am sure, everyone, 19 Republican and Democrat in this chamber, 20 because there's no such thing as a Republican 21 environment or a Democrat environment. It is 22 all of our environments -- to help guarantee 23 that funding for those vital programs is 24 preserved and protected.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Thank you, Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 3 you, Senator Marcellino. 4 Senator LaValle, on the amendment. 5 SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you, 6 Mr. President. 7 I support Senator Marcellino's 8 amendment because it really is a 9 quality-of-life issue for Long Island and for 10 the First Senatorial District. We on Long 11 Island are in really a footrace with 12 development. We need to have a balance 13 between development and land preservation. We 14 need the state dollars to match the dollars 15 and the commitment that has been made by the 16 County of Suffolk and the individual towns. 17 Some years ago, you may have 18 recalled, for those members who were here, we 19 passed a transfer tax, real estate transfer 20 tax, to establish a community preservation 21 fund. And that has produced over the years a 22 lot of dollars in many of the towns to be able 23 to match state dollars and county dollars to 24 do the kind of preservation that we need to

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(518) 371-8910 1 do. 2 Because real estate is down, we do 3 not have the kinds of community preservation 4 dollars that we once had. And there are 5 similar pressures on the county. So the 6 state, in every project that we look at, in 7 terms of land preservation, the state shrugs 8 its shoulders, says the cupboard is bare. 9 So we need maintain our commitment 10 to the Open Space Program, and we need the 11 dollars that Senator Marcellino's amendment 12 would provide to us and a commitment. 13 I would also mention that those of 14 us who supported the Bottle Bill always 15 thought that whatever the dollars were would 16 go in to support the EPF. But that is not to 17 be, even though it's only on water. 18 So when we have a vote, I will be 19 supporting the Senator's amendment. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 21 you, Senator LaValle. 22 The question is on the nonsponsor 23 motion to amend Calendar Number 138. All in 24 favor please indicate by raising your hand.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Announce the results. 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 30. Nays, 3 31. 4 Senator Hassell-Thompson, excused. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 6 motion fails. 7 Senator Maziarz, on the bill. 8 SENATOR MAZIARZ: We're on the 9 bill. Yes, thank you very much, 10 Mr. President. 11 Mr. President, when I got up to 12 discuss the amendment to the bill, I made a 13 point of pointing out to you, Mr. President, 14 and to the other members that we were talking 15 on the amendment. Now we are talking on the 16 bill. This is the debate on S59. 17 And the reason I made that 18 distinction, Mr. President, is because we have 19 guests in the chamber today. I want to give a 20 shout out to my staff. They have worked 21 diligently, diligently over the past five 22 days, notifying people, notifying businesses, 23 television stations, newspapers of this 24 impending debate.

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(518) 371-8910 1 We have invited, in the last 15 2 minutes, after making a whole lot of 3 preparations -- the editorial board of the 4 Buffalo News is watching, the Watertown Times, 5 the Syracuse Post-Standard, the Palladium 6 Times of Oswego, the Ogdensburg Journal, 7 television stations in Syracuse, Buffalo, 8 Rochester, Watertown -- Newswatch 50 in 9 Watertown. Newzjunky. 10 And in addition to that, 11 Mr. President, my staff, my staff has 12 contacted -- using Twitter, Facebook, social 13 networking, emailing, and you know what, just 14 old-fashioned telephone calls -- 494 companies 15 across the State of New York. Companies from 16 every county. Edward John Noble Hospital from 17 St. Lawrence County. Great Lakes Cheese of 18 New York, from Jefferson County. Exelon 19 Corporation in Erie County. Fiberglass 20 Industries in Montgomery County. Interface 21 Solutions in Oswego County. I'm not going to 22 read them all. 23 But we made preparations for all of 24 them to go to their lunchrooms, to go to their

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(518) 371-8910 1 cafeterias, and to watch this debate on this 2 bill. That's how important this bill is. 3 Every bill that we have passed so 4 far is going to affect the people of the State 5 of New York, every one. This one is going to 6 affect everyone in New York, everyone that's 7 employed, every business, the poor people that 8 Senator Ruben Diaz mentioned earlier. And if 9 you vote yes, it's going to affect them 10 retroactive to March 1st. 11 You're going to tax them on every 12 utility bill, every gas bill, every electric 13 bill retroactive to March 1st. There's not 14 one piece of legislation that we've passed 15 today that's going to tax them retroactively 16 other than this one. 17 Just two weeks ago the New York 18 State Power Authority proposed a rate 19 increase. Senator Joe Griffo and I went to 20 the public hearing down the street. You'd 21 have to be Lewis & Clark to find that room 22 where that public hearing was being held. 23 They expected no one to show up. 24 But you know, like our audience

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(518) 371-8910 1 here today from across the state, YouTube was 2 a great tool. A firestorm started across this 3 state. Suddenly everyone was opposed to this 4 rate increase. The Governor jumped on. 5 Members of this house, members of the other 6 house, they all jumped on. Everybody was 7 against this NYPA rate increase. Which really 8 wasn't all that significant, it was pennies, 9 but it was still an increase. 10 And 11 days ago, just 11 days 11 ago -- in a room just outside this chamber, to 12 everyone listening -- I attended a press 13 conference. Five of my colleagues spoke at 14 that press conference. 15 Senator Stachowski said, "We think 16 any kind of rate increase, albeit a small rate 17 increase, is detrimental to jobs and to the 18 people in Western New York. Any job lost, it 19 doesn't matter whose it is, where it is in 20 New York, is bad for the people of New York. 21 We like to make sure that we do the best we 22 can to keep rates low and keep programs 23 available." 24 Senator Valesky -- Mr. President --

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(518) 371-8910 1 you said, "This is not the time to once again 2 ask ratepayers to be subjected to yet another 3 rate increase." 4 Senator Breslin said, "Let's make 5 the right decision, and those right decisions 6 are no increases in rates at this time." 7 Senator Aubertine said, "A rate 8 increase at this time would be 9 counterproductive. It would send the wrong 10 message to the public and to New York in 11 general that everything is okay, and 12 everything is not okay." 13 Senator Thompson said, "It has been 14 said more than once, and I will say it again, 15 upstate residents and utility consumers pay 16 some of the highest electricity rates in the 17 United States of America. It is particularly 18 upsetting for the people of Western New York." 19 As I said, that rate increase, that 20 righteous indignation, was minor compared to 21 the vote that you are going to take in just a 22 few minutes. That rate increase by the 23 New York Power Authority would have raised 24 approximately $10 million a year. The rate

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(518) 371-8910 1 increase that you are going to vote on, if you 2 vote yes, will tax every business, every 3 person in this state. It will raise 4 $637 million. Every homeowner, every senior 5 citizen, every low-income person, every 6 moderate-income person. 7 And as I said, it's retroactive to 8 March 1st. We're taxing them retroactively. 9 This tax will raise the energy 10 rates, the utility costs of HSBC Arena in 11 Buffalo by $44,000 a year. 12 Now, we all know that the 13 automobile industry in this country is in 14 trouble. President Obama has correctly stated 15 that they have to restructure themselves. 16 Some plants are going to close, workers are 17 going to lose their jobs in the automobile 18 industry. 19 The Tonawanda Engine Plant, a 20 General Motors plant on River Road in the Town 21 of Tonawanda, employs hundreds, hundreds of 22 UAW workers. If you vote yes on this bill, 23 you will be increasing the Tonawanda Engine 24 Plant's utility cost by over $1,000 a week.

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(518) 371-8910 1 One thousand dollars a week. 2 The Delphi Thermal plant in 3 Lockport, which produces automobile parts for 4 General Motors and Chrysler, employs 3,000 UAW 5 workers from all over Western New York. If 6 you vote yes on this bill, you will be 7 increasing the utility costs for Delphi 8 Thermal by $1,500 a week, $1,500 a week for 9 Delphi Thermal. 10 Now, let me tell you what's going 11 to happen. In weeks -- not years, not months, 12 but weeks -- some automotive executives and 13 accountants are going to get into a room in 14 Detroit, and they're going to have a list of 15 plants on the wall, and they're going to 16 scroll down that list. And they're going to 17 decide which plants are going to stay open and 18 which plants are going to close and what 19 workers are going to lose their jobs. 20 And they're going to come to that 21 Tonawanda Engine Plant, that General Motors 22 plant, and some accountant is going to say: 23 "The State of New York, it already costs us a 24 lot to do business in the State of New York.

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(518) 371-8910 1 They just raised our utility rates by a 2 thousand dollars a week." 3 And then in another boardroom 4 somewhere in Detroit, in Delphi headquarters, 5 they're going to be doing the same thing. 6 They're going to say: "If General Motors is 7 suffering, General Motors isn't going to buy 8 parts, Chrysler isn't going to buy parts. 9 Delphi has to downsize. Workers have to be 10 laid off. Let's go down that list of plants. 11 Where are we making money? Where are we 12 losing money?" 13 Delphi Lockport could be history 14 because of the vote that's taken in this room 15 today. 16 This tax will affect not just the 17 working people, but senior citizens. This 18 vote on this bill can either enhance or end -- 19 or end -- the career of some of the people who 20 are going to take this vote. Remember who's 21 watching. 22 The Western New York Assembly 23 delegation voted unanimously against this 24 bill. Assemblywoman Corwin, Assemblywoman

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(518) 371-8910 1 DelMonte, Assemblyman Gabryszak, Assemblyman 2 Hawley, Assemblyman Hayes, Assemblyman Hoyt, 3 Assemblyman Parment, Assemblywoman Peoples, 4 Assemblyman Quinn, Assemblyman Schimminger and 5 Assemblyman Schroeder all voted not to impose 6 this utility tax on the people of New York 7 State. 8 I can tell you that the excuses are 9 not going to work. Other states are looking 10 to do this. Previous administrations and 11 legislatures have done this. The mailers that 12 go out that say "We had to make tough 13 decisions" aren't going to work. 14 Mr. President and those listening 15 today in those factories, in those plants -- 16 those workers at ORC Plastics in Oswego, 17 Peltor Electronic Corporation in Madison 18 County, Pivot Punch in Niagara County, Polymer 19 Conversions in Erie County, Quad Graphics in 20 Saratoga County, Samaritan Medical Center in 21 Jefferson County, Suit-Kote Corporation in 22 Cortland County, Syracuse Casting Sales 23 Corporation in Onondaga County -- all of them 24 indicated that they would be watching today.

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(518) 371-8910 1 I want to read an email that I 2 received. It was from a couple, an elderly 3 couple who live in Western New York, and it 4 was about the proposed Power Authority 5 increase. This is what they had to say. 6 "Thank you, George, for persevering 7 against the proposal of the Power Authority to 8 raise rates. This proposal upset many of us 9 VFI seniors (very-fixed-income seniors). 10 "George, my husband and I plan on 11 how to cut down washing our clothes. We only 12 use a few lights." And listen to this. 13 Listen to this, my colleagues, and listen to 14 this to the people that are watching today. 15 "We actually plan on not opening the 16 refrigerator unless it's absolutely necessary 17 in order to conserve energy. 18 "I'm serious when I say this, 19 George. We cannot afford one more nickel in 20 taxes, not one more penny in increase in our 21 utilities, not one. 22 "George, we've given up many 23 things. We're old now. We thought in our 24 later years that we would enjoy our retirement

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(518) 371-8910 1 and our life. But it's sad, as we worked hard 2 all of our lives in the hope of getting it 3 easier one day, but instead it's becoming 4 harder and more expensive. We can't do it 5 anymore, George." 6 We're raising their utility rates, 7 this elderly couple, if you vote yes. 8 Now, I've laid out the case, but 9 I'm going to lay out the solution too. Some 10 people mistake my passion and my commitment to 11 this issue as anger. I've shown up at places 12 where I have not been very welcome to talk 13 about this issue, I feel that strongly about 14 it. 15 The solution is this, for somebody 16 to go Senator Klein and tell him to lay this 17 bill aside and then go back in there and tell 18 Senator Smith, "I can't be responsible for 19 that engine plant closing. I can't be 20 responsible for Delphi in Lockport closing." 21 Delphi just sold their brake 22 division on Monday, their brake division on 23 Monday to the Chinese. It will take the 24 Chinese probably six months to move that from

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(518) 371-8910 1 the United States over to China. 2 The Delphi division located in 3 Western New York is the thermal division. 4 That's the division that makes 5 air-conditioning parts and heater parts. If 6 Delphi sells that to the Chinese, that's gone 7 in six months. Thousands of UAW workers laid 8 off, out of a job. Thousands of workers. 9 You want to risk that? There's a 10 way out. Go in there and tell Senator Smith, 11 "This is one I can't do. This is one that 12 could end my career." Everybody's watching. 13 The whole state's watching. This is one we 14 have to lay aside. 15 A lot of talk on the other bills 16 and their effect. This one affects us all, 17 and this one affects us all retroactively. 18 Don't do it because of the political pressure. 19 Do it because it's the right thing to do. Do 20 it for the people who don't open their 21 refrigerator in order to save energy -- don't 22 open their refrigerator, plan when they're 23 going to wash their clothes. 24 Thank you, Mr. President.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 2 you, Senator Maziarz. 3 Senator Bonacic, on the 4 legislation. 5 (Scattered applause.) 6 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you, 7 Mr. President. 8 I'd like to thank Senator Maziarz 9 for highlighting the devastation to all of the 10 businesses, the families, the individuals that 11 are going to suffer as a result of this rate 12 hike. And I think you nailed this issue 13 perfectly -- the devastation that we're going 14 to have on jobs and people leaving this state, 15 voting with their feet. 16 I stood up to talk about another 17 issue that is important to every Senator that 18 lives outside New York City as it relates to 19 our volunteer firefighters. And I have a 20 series of questions for Senator Kruger. But 21 before I ask you these questions, I want to 22 preface my remarks to enlighten us about the 23 issue. 24 For those Senators that don't live

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(518) 371-8910 1 outside New York City, volunteer firefighters 2 have full-time jobs, they do different 3 occupations, and when that alarm goes off 4 24/7, middle of the night, men or women, 5 volunteer firefighters get up, leave their 6 family, and run to that fire to try save that 7 home and people's lives. 8 I have said over the years that 9 they are truly our heroes. And they are never 10 compensated one cent for what they do for this 11 secondary job. They are courageous, they are 12 committed to their community. And the people 13 who live in New York City have paid 14 firefighters who are professionals who are 15 also our heroes, but they are expensive to 16 have fire services, while upstate, our 17 volunteers do not increase the tax rate on the 18 people they serve. 19 For forty years, to drive a fire 20 truck never required a commercial driver's 21 license. All of a sudden, back in 2005, there 22 was a vague provision put in the Motor Vehicle 23 Law that one could interpret that fire trucks 24 now need to have a commercial driver's license

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(518) 371-8910 1 to drive a fire truck. 2 This has caused havoc in all of the 3 volunteer fire companies in the State of 4 New York. If I go to a pancake breakfast -- 5 and I go to several, for several different 6 fire companies -- they come up to me, they 7 don't ask for grants, they talk about this 8 burden of a commercial driver's license. 9 Now having said that, I'm going to 10 ask Senator Kruger would he yield to a couple 11 of questions. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 13 Senator Kruger, do you yield? 14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do, 15 notwithstanding the fact that no explanation 16 for the bill was asked. Yes, I do yield. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 18 Senator Kruger yields. 19 SENATOR BONACIC: And, Senator 20 Kruger, this is language interpretation, so 21 I'll be brief with you. Okay? 22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Be gentle. 23 SENATOR BONACIC: And I will be 24 gentle.

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(518) 371-8910 1 But this is something that if not 2 solved today can be solved in the near future, 3 because Senator Foley has a bill that got it 4 right, a bill that I've been working with him 5 and our other colleagues, Republican 6 colleagues, have been working with Senator 7 Foley to get done. 8 Now, the first question I have -- 9 and I'm going to refer to pages 24 and 25, 10 lines 23 to 25. And this is very difficult 11 for you, Senator Kruger, because you're 12 involved with macro issues and I'm asking you 13 for three lines tucked in this transportation 14 budget. 15 And basically what it says, for 16 purposes of an emergency operation a 17 firefighter can now drive a truck back to the 18 fire station without a CDL license. That's a 19 good thing. That's a good thing. 20 So do you agree with me as a result 21 of this budget language we have made a partial 22 correction where now, if I don't have a CDL 23 license and we responded to a fire, that 24 volunteer firefighter without a CDL license

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(518) 371-8910 1 can drive that truck back to the station? 2 That's what I think your language 3 did. Do you agree? 4 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 5 you, Mr. President, obviously we agree. 6 And we're going to -- I can say 7 that we could do it in a cleanup bill, but 8 that won't even be good enough. Senator 9 Foley's bill deserves action on this floor, 10 and we will do that. 11 SENATOR BONACIC: Okay. And I 12 thank you very much, Senator Kruger. 13 On the bill. 14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you, 15 Senator Bonacic. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator Bonacic, on the bill. 18 SENATOR BONACIC: The other point 19 that I wanted to make, a commercial driver's 20 license is expensive. You have to go through 21 training. It's usually for tractor-trailer 22 trucks. 23 And it never was needed for a fire 24 engine and for volunteer firefighters, whether

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(518) 371-8910 1 they went to training, whether they responded 2 to an emergency to or from the fires, whether 3 they used it in a parade. And I made a survey 4 of how many fire companies in the rural areas 5 have this CDL license. Most of them do not. 6 So when we are trying to do 7 recruitment and retention, we do state income 8 tax credits for those that volunteer to go for 9 volunteer firefighting and join the company. 10 We do scholarships to have our young people at 11 a school where we pay for some aid to go to 12 college if you join the volunteer 13 firefighters. 14 And every Senator outside New York 15 City appreciates what I'm saying, and I am 16 sure they feel the same way that I do. 17 And knowing that Senator Carl 18 Kruger has indicated that he will work with 19 Senator Foley, as we all will -- and Senator 20 Foley also is to be commended for having this 21 bill and for pushing it. And we will continue 22 to work with him to make that happen. 23 And I thank you for the future 24 consideration you're going to give to all of

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(518) 371-8910 1 the volunteer firefighters in the State of 2 New York. 3 Thank you, Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 5 you, Senator Bonacic. 6 Senator Nozzolio, on the bill. 7 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President, 8 thank you very much for the opportunity to 9 speak on this legislation, so critically 10 important. 11 The most critically important issue 12 that America faced up until last October was 13 energy. October brought the storm clouds of 14 the economic crisis there; the country's focus 15 had left energy and of course gave attention 16 to much broader issues. 17 But soon again, when the economic 18 crisis is over with, energy will again be at 19 the forefront of Americans' minds -- how we 20 are going to be energy independent from 21 foreign sources of energy, how we are going to 22 heat our homes, how we're going to power our 23 factories, how we're going to deal with growth 24 and opportunity and how that growth and

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(518) 371-8910 1 opportunity will be presented. 2 Unfortunately, my colleagues, this 3 budget and this proposal and this 800 percent 4 increase in the utility taxes in our state 5 will ensure that there will be no opportunity 6 in New York State. 7 I want to thank Senator Maziarz for 8 his impassioned discussion and his call to 9 arms to each and every one of you to join us 10 in rising up and saying no, saying no to this 11 budget proposal. Because we care about senior 12 citizens in their homes, we care about keeping 13 them in their homes, we care about their 14 electric rates, we care about how they are 15 living their lives. 16 It could not have been said better. 17 But the focus shouldn't be forgotten a few 18 minutes after the remarks. 19 I heard discussions from my 20 colleagues from Western New York earlier this 21 week. Senator Thompson, Senator Stachowski, 22 were talking to me, particularly Senator 23 Thompson, about the upstate economy, about 24 jobs in Western New York, about population

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(518) 371-8910 1 draining from the state, facts of which I am 2 well aware, too painfully aware. 3 High-user electricity, those 4 businesses that depend on electric and natural 5 gas service to be able to run those boilers 6 for the glass plants, those important ovens 7 for steel manufacture. Those bottle plants in 8 Sennett that it was talked about yesterday by 9 Senator DeFrancisco that may or may not expand 10 in New York State. The glass plants I have in 11 my district, in Geneva and in Sennett, in 12 Auburn, to try to ensure that they're going to 13 continue their operations. Nucor Steel, which 14 is in my district and Senator Winner's 15 district. Steel companies that are high users 16 of electricity and are high contributors to 17 the economy of our lives because they bring 18 jobs and keep jobs in New York State. 19 Those companies will leave and 20 could make the decision to leave as early as 21 tomorrow after they read about how their 22 electric rates are going to skyrocket because 23 of this proposal. 24 Those are the statistics, Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Thompson, that I want you to remember as you 2 ask me to recall the population losses in 3 New York State, the job losses in New York 4 State. We might as well start a tally today 5 of how many jobs will be lost in your area of 6 Western New York, in my area of Central and 7 Western New York as a result of this utility 8 tax. 9 One of our colleagues and good 10 friends in the State Assembly, Assemblyman 11 Robin Schimminger, said it very clearly when 12 he said the worst way to recover from a 13 recession is to raise the cost of doing 14 business. That's what this budget does. A 15 Democrat from Western New York who's saying 16 clearly that the budget is raising the cost of 17 doing business. 18 And there's no greater increase in 19 the cost of doing business and the cost of 20 living in New York State than this onerous 21 utility tax. 22 In the Finger Lakes region, the 23 average family of four will see their home 24 budgets increased by $3,400. I'm not sure

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(518) 371-8910 1 they're not going to have to do the same thing 2 that Senator Maziarz's constituents are going 3 to have to do -- don't open the refrigerator, 4 don't use electricity. You're not going to be 5 able to afford the bill. 6 I'm certainly concerned about the 7 individuals and the families, as we all need 8 to be. But I'm also concerned about those 9 businesses that are making decisions whether 10 or not to stay in Western New York, and 11 particularly those manufacturers who use a lot 12 of electricity. 13 And, Senator Krueger, I had to 14 laugh when you said earlier today that the 15 government spending increases the gross 16 national product of our nation more than 17 private-sector spending. That is the most 18 flipped up, upside-down economic theory I've 19 ever heard. 20 Seventy-five percent of our nation 21 still is the private sector. And the private 22 sector brings the jobs. The private sector 23 will bring us the jobs to get us out of this 24 recession. It's not the public sector, it's

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(518) 371-8910 1 not taxes. It's growth. It's not government, 2 it's opportunity. And what this proposal does 3 is stifle opportunity and stifle job growth. 4 So imagine those companies that are 5 making those decisions: Are we going to 6 continue in New York State? Are we going to 7 expand and pay multimillions of dollars to 8 expand here, to do our business here, to make 9 our glass plates here at Guardian Glass, to 10 make our glass bottles at Owens-Illinois? 11 Those decisions are going to have 12 to be checked when you look at the costs of 13 doing business and the cost of making 14 products. And what this will do is drive jobs 15 out of New York State. 16 I thank my colleagues for their 17 support of our amendments, and I urge all of 18 my colleagues to listen not to the Republicans 19 on this side of the aisle but to the Democrats 20 in the Assembly from Western New York who are 21 saying clearly this will hurt job production 22 in our region of the state. 23 Thank you, Mr. President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank

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(518) 371-8910 1 you, Senator Nozzolio. 2 Senator DeFrancisco, on the bill. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I'm going 4 to be very brief. 5 Senator Maziarz has taken the lead 6 on this important issue. He's done his 7 homework, he's stated the case. 8 And I simply want to say one thing. 9 And that is that everybody who's watching now 10 or learns of this later should hold everybody 11 accountable for their vote, because each one 12 of us has an opportunity now to say no -- to 13 say no to higher utilities, no to higher 14 taxes, no to all the fees and assessments. So 15 that we do exactly what our constituents are 16 doing and what our businesses are doing, 17 cutting corners in order to make their lives 18 even possible. 19 So I want to thank George Maziarz 20 for his incredible job. I know he's going to 21 be speaking again, and I want to hear his 22 concluding remarks, because this is such an 23 important time in this budget process that we 24 can't let it fail. We need support on the

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(518) 371-8910 1 Democrat side to vote no on this aspect of the 2 budget. 3 Thank you, Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 5 you, Senator DeFrancisco. 6 Senator Fuschillo, on the bill. 7 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you 8 very much, Mr. President. 9 We've talked for a few days about 10 how desperate people are and businesses are. 11 And now to hear Senator Maziarz talk about 12 that people can't even open up their 13 refrigerators anymore is beyond desperation. 14 Senator Maziarz, let me compliment 15 you on having the people of the State of 16 New York and the businesses watch these 17 proceedings. Because we talked about a 18 personal income tax increase that the 19 Democratic Senators voted on that's going to 20 affect about 360,000, 375,000 people in the 21 State of New York. And the issue you're 22 exposing today, because that's what you're 23 doing, is going to affect every single person 24 in this state.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And you mentioned some numbers. In 2 my district, the Freeport Electric Company 3 sent me a letter pleading with me to vote 4 against this, because this increase that is 5 contained in this bill will result in 6 significantly increased costs for our 7 ratepayers. An increase of $479,000, almost 8 $9,800 a week, that's going to be passed on to 9 the ratepayers. 10 Now, I live on Long Island. We pay 11 the highest utility rates in the country 12 through LIPA, Long Island Power Authority. We 13 can't afford anymore, let alone the people 14 that have their own utility companies in 15 Freeport and Rockville Centre in Senator 16 Skelos's district. 17 And Senator Maziarz isn't wasting 18 his time, because he's got a lot to do to go 19 to these meetings all over upstate New York. 20 And if it wasn't for his leadership, the 21 New York Power Authority would have raised 22 rates last week. 23 And I think you embarrassed the 24 Governor, Senator Maziarz, to step in and say

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(518) 371-8910 1 no and make a recommendation to don't do it. 2 So a lot of people owe thanks to you. 3 And this is pretty simple, ladies 4 and gentlemen. Property taxes are high, and 5 utility rates are high. You've made personal 6 income tax rates higher. Stop. Enough. 7 We're choking to death. It's enough. 8 I hate the excuse this is a crisis, 9 we have to sneak it in. Stop talking on the 10 floor. Five days, you're killing people. 11 They can't afford to live here anymore. 12 I vote no. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 14 you, Senator Fuschillo. 15 Senator Maziarz, to close. 16 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you once 17 again, Mr. President. 18 I can only implore my colleagues. 19 And I hope that all those companies that we've 20 spent a week -- and all those editorial boards 21 and all those television stations are still 22 watching. This is the moment that my staff 23 has been Twittering you about, using Facebook, 24 using email, telephoning you about. This is

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(518) 371-8910 1 the moment. 2 We've voted on a lot of important 3 issues. We're going to raise a lot of taxes. 4 I don't know of any that we're going to raise 5 on every New Yorker, every New Yorker, and 6 we're going to do it retroactive to March 1st. 7 This is the moment when just one person, one 8 person, has to lay this aside. 9 There's a better way of doing this 10 than raising these utility rates on everyone. 11 You can't vote yes if 11 days ago you said not 12 one penny more. How are you going to face 13 your constituents? 14 I can only tell you that your 15 careers could end over this vote. That's how 16 important it is. I am committed to doing this 17 across the State of New York if necessary. We 18 can stop this rate increase. 19 If 11 days ago it was not one penny 20 more, what's the difference today? All it 21 takes is one brave individual, one hero -- 22 that term is so overexposed today -- one hero 23 to step up to the plate. Just one. There are 24 30 votes on this side of the aisle against

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(518) 371-8910 1 this bill, against this utility increase, 2 against taxing poor people. Against possibly 3 putting those thousands of UAW workers in 4 Western New York out of work. 5 What is it like to lose a job? A 6 37-year-old guy sat in my office just two 7 weeks ago. He got laid off from a job that he 8 had for over 12 years. He told me he felt 9 like he was a failure. He had two kids in 10 middle school and high school. He felt like a 11 failure as a father and a failure as a 12 husband. He couldn't provide for his family. 13 The vote we're taking today, the 14 vote we're taking today could do that to a lot 15 of other people across this state. Half of 16 the companies that I mentioned today are in or 17 near bankruptcy. They can't take any more 18 utility rate increases, not one penny more. 19 They couldn't take the NYPA increase, and they 20 can't take this increase. 21 Thank you, Mr. President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 23 you, Senator Maziarz. 24 The Secretary will ring the bells.

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(518) 371-8910 1 I ask all Senators to proceed to the chamber 2 so that we may move to a roll call. 3 The Secretary will read the last 4 section. 5 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 6 act shall take effect immediately. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 8 Secretary will call the roll slowly. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Adams. 10 SENATOR ADAMS: Aye. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Addabbo. 12 SENATOR ADDABBO: Yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Alesi. 14 SENATOR ALESI: No. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator 16 Aubertine. 17 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bonacic. 19 SENATOR BONACIC: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Breslin. 21 SENATOR BRESLIN: Yes. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator 23 DeFrancisco. 24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Diaz. 2 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Dilan. 4 SENATOR DILAN: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Duane. 6 SENATOR DUANE: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 8 SENATOR ESPADA: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 10 SENATOR FARLEY: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Flanagan. 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: No. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Foley. 14 SENATOR FOLEY: Aye. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator 16 Fuschillo. 17 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Golden. 19 SENATOR GOLDEN: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Griffo. 21 SENATOR GRIFFO: No. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon. 23 SENATOR HANNON: No. 24 THE SECRETARY: With unanimous

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(518) 371-8910 1 consent, Senator Hassell-Thompson voted in the 2 affirmative on April 2. 3 Senator Huntley. 4 SENATOR HUNTLEY: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator C. 6 Johnson. 7 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Yes. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator O. 9 Johnson. 10 SENATOR OWEN JOHNSON: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Klein. 12 SENATOR KLEIN: Yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator 14 L. Krueger. 15 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator C. 17 Kruger. 18 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lanza. 20 SENATOR LANZA: No. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 22 SENATOR LARKIN: No. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle. 24 SENATOR LaVALLE: No.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell. 2 SENATOR LEIBELL: No. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous 4 voting in the affirmative earlier today. 5 (Laughter.) 6 THE SECRETARY: Oh, excuse me. 7 Excuse me. Senator Libous voting in the 8 negative earlier today. 9 Senator Little. 10 SENATOR LITTLE: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator 12 Marcellino. 13 SENATOR MARCELLINO: No. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz. 15 (No response.) 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator McDonald. 17 SENATOR McDONALD: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator 19 Monserrate. 20 SENATOR MONSERRATE: Aye. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator 22 Montgomery. 23 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Aye. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Morahan.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR MORAHAN: No. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nozzolio. 3 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Onorato. 5 SENATOR ONORATO: Aye. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator 7 Oppenheimer. 8 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Aye. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Parker. 12 SENATOR PARKER: Aye. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Perkins. 14 SENATOR PERKINS: Yes. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator 16 Ranzenhofer. 17 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Robach. 19 SENATOR ROBACH: Mr. President, 20 to explain my vote. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Senator Robach, to explain his vote. 23 SENATOR ROBACH: Indulge me, I'm 24 sorry. I had my name on the list to speak and

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(518) 371-8910 1 either purposely or accidentally got 2 overlooked there. But I did want to speak on 3 this very briefly. 4 And first let me thank Senator 5 Kruger for answering all these questions, 6 being here for that, not only in your position 7 but to fill in for many of your colleagues on 8 this topic and many others. 9 I also want to applaud Senator 10 Maziarz for his work on energy, not only on 11 this one, but in the deficit reduction program 12 that took three-quarters of a billion dollars 13 out of hydropower out of upstate New York to 14 help bail out the state when we need it in a 15 way many of us thought should have been used 16 to stabilize energy in our part of the world. 17 But I do want to say there's still 18 a few votes left. This is really one of those 19 rare times that no matter where you're from -- 20 rich or poor, private individual or business, 21 everyone is going to get hurt. We're talking 22 about a stimulus package. There's going to be 23 nothing worse than this if we pass it. 24 I for one am going to be voting no.

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(518) 371-8910 1 I do not want my fingerprints at the scene of 2 this crime, and it is going to be a crime -- 3 death, killing taxes on jobs. 4 You heard my colleague Senator 5 Maziarz. This is no joke. This is serious 6 stuff. Whether you're trying to hang onto 7 your home and heat it and whether you're 8 trying to get a job, this is the most 9 challenged, competitive economy we've ever 10 been. I've heard people on that side of the 11 aisle say that as much as we are. 12 Let's just do the math here and 13 think about this. Putting this tax on 14 business and private individuals at a time 15 when people are shopping around where to live, 16 where to set up shop, where to move their 17 company or factory to, is bad, bad business. 18 This is antistimulus. I have never been more 19 sure of a no vote in my life than I am of this 20 one, and I hope others will follow suit. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Senator Robach to be recorded in the negative. 23 The Secretary will continue. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SALAND: No. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sampson. 3 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Savino. 5 SENATOR SAVINO: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator 7 Schneiderman. 8 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Serrano. 10 SENATOR SERRANO: Yes. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 12 SENATOR SEWARD: No. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 14 SENATOR SKELOS: No. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 16 (Senator Smith recorded as voting 17 in the affirmative.) 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Squadron. 19 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator 21 Stachowski. 22 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky. 24 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator 2 Stewart-Cousins. 3 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: Yes. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Thompson. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Thompson, to explain his vote. 7 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes, 8 Mr. President. Thank you for recognizing me. 9 It's been a nice and spirited 10 debate about the nature of this bill, but I 11 want to highlight a couple of things that I 12 believe are important for Western New York, 13 particularly for Buffalo and Niagara Falls. 14 This bill provides an additional 15 $39.7 million for roads. In addition, for the 16 first time in history, in more than 20 years, 17 my district in Niagara Falls will receive 18 multimodal money for transportation -- which 19 usually goes to the Senate Majority -- of 20 $100 million, so we'll be able to fix some 21 roads finally. 22 In addition, this bill deals with 23 the casino, the Niagara Falls casino, which is 24 located in downtown Niagara Falls. As a

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(518) 371-8910 1 result of this bill, we will be able to 2 provide -- we will take the money from Niagara 3 County and give all of the rest of the 4 remaining money, almost a million dollars a 5 year, to fix roads and sidewalks that are 6 desperately needed in downtown Niagara Falls. 7 In addition to that, this bill will 8 also provide funding support for the 9 Underground Railroad Heritage Area in Niagara 10 Falls as well. This is where -- at this 11 point, this place in Niagara Falls, this is 12 where Harriet Tubman crossed from the United 13 States of America to Canada. 14 So yes, I'm voting for this bill. 15 Yes, there are some bad things in this bill, 16 but there's also some positive in this bill as 17 well, and I vote aye. 18 Thank you. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 20 Senator Thompson to be recorded in the 21 affirmative. 22 The Secretary will continue to call 23 the roll. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Valesky.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Aye. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker. 3 SENATOR VOLKER: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Winner. 5 SENATOR WINNER: No. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Young. 7 SENATOR YOUNG: No. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 9 Secretary will call the absentees. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator Maziarz, to explain his vote. 13 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you very 14 much, Mr. President. 15 Mr. President, I don't know that 16 all those people that you just put out of work 17 will be able to use those roads. 18 But, Mr. President, two minutes 19 isn't enough to explain the carnage and the 20 suffering that you just caused. Two minutes 21 isn't enough. So I'm going to explain my vote 22 next week at a press conference outside the 23 Cheektowaga Senior Citizen Center. 24 I'm going to partner with an

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(518) 371-8910 1 advocacy group called Responsible New York. 2 And on the break week and Christmas when 3 everybody is down in Florida having fun, we're 4 going to be up in Jefferson County, we're 5 going to be up in Oswego County, we're going 6 to be up in St. Lawrence County. We're going 7 to have the Expose the Hypocrisy Tour across 8 this state. Expose the Hypocrisy Tour. 9 Expose the taxes that you just put 10 on what Senator Diaz called the poor people. 11 The people that I hope you didn't, you didn't 12 put out of work at that Tonawanda Engine Plant 13 or that Delphi Thermal plant in Lockport. The 14 thousands of UAW workers. Because if they do 15 close one of those plants, you can bet, you 16 can bet that I'll be there. I will be there, 17 and I will name names. 18 Eleven days ago, 2 cents was too 19 much. Shame on every one of you. Shame on 20 every one of you. 21 I vote no. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Maziarz to be recorded in the 24 negative.

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(518) 371-8910 1 The Secretary will announce the 2 results. 3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 32. Nays, 4 30. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 6 bill is passed. 7 Senator Klein. 8 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 9 still on the controversial calendar, can we go 10 to Calendar Number 137. The Minority has 11 agreed to waive an explanation. 12 But I'd like to call on Senator 13 Skelos. I believe there's an amendment at the 14 desk. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 16 Secretary will read Calendar Number 137. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 137, substituted March 31, Assembly Budget 19 Bill, Assembly Print Number 158B, an act to 20 amend the Public Health Law and the Elder Law. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Senator Skelos. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: I believe 24 there's an amendment at the desk by Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Seward. If you could recognize Senator 2 Seward, please. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Certainly. There is an amendment at the desk. 5 Without objection, the reading of the 6 amendment is waived. 7 Senator Seward, you are recognized 8 to speak on the amendment. 9 SENATOR SEWARD: Thank you, 10 Mr. President. 11 We have just had a very spirited 12 and I think a very informative discussion on a 13 challenge that our constituents have in terms 14 of affording electricity and other utilities. 15 There is another struggle that everyday 16 New Yorkers have and our small businesses have 17 every day in New York State, and that is 18 affording health insurance coverage in 19 New York State. 20 There's one very specific way that 21 that Legislature, through the budget, can have 22 an impact on the cost of health insurance, is 23 in the taxation of this type of insurance and 24 all insurance, for that matter.

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(518) 371-8910 1 This budget proposal before us 2 raises taxes on health insurance, making it 3 more costly to do business in New York State, 4 to offer health insurance to employees in 5 New York State and, because of the increased 6 costs, makes it more difficult for New Yorkers 7 to have access to quality and affordable 8 healthcare that they deserve. 9 At a time when at the 10 federal-government level there's a lot of 11 discussion about making healthcare and health 12 insurance available to more people, many of 13 our sister states are seeking ways, innovative 14 ways to make healthcare and health insurance 15 more affordable. 16 This budget not only maintains the 17 status quo here in New York, it actually makes 18 it more difficult to have health insurance, 19 more expensive to have health insurance and 20 healthcare by hiking healthcare taxes at a 21 time when New Yorkers can least afford it. 22 No question, higher health 23 insurance taxes will force businesses which 24 are already facing tough economic times to

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(518) 371-8910 1 close their doors, in some cases; if they're 2 able to stay open, drop coverage, aggravating 3 our high number of uninsured; or pass on 4 health insurance costs more to the employees 5 who can ill afford those higher costs. 6 The bill before us raises the HCRA 7 surcharge on patient services. That's paid by 8 the insurers, passed on to those who pay 9 health insurance premiums. If a person is 10 uninsured, they pay this tax directly. No one 11 who seeks medical care in the State of 12 New York can avoid this tax. 13 Other parts of this budget expands 14 the premium taxes for HMOs. Even on Healthy 15 New York policies, which is designed to be a 16 lower-cost option for small businesses, 17 they're going to be paying more under this 18 budget. 19 And of course in the deficit 20 reduction plan that passed in early February, 21 there were more taxes on insurance -- health 22 insurance, covered lives, $240 million. This 23 Senate on the Majority side, the Democrat 24 side, raised health insurance $240 million

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(518) 371-8910 1 then. Also, another $177 million in increased 2 taxes on all other forms of insurance: life 3 insurance, homeowner's insurance, auto 4 insurance. Where does it end? 5 When you add all of this up in 6 terms of the insurance taxes specifically on 7 health insurance, what this is going to mean 8 for the premium payers of New York State -- 9 you're not taxing the insurance companies, 10 you're taxing the hard-pressed premium payers 11 of New York State. 12 If you are representing 13 constituents in New York City, their costs, 14 with the actions that the other side of the 15 aisle have taken this year, in this budget and 16 in the deficit reduction plan, will impact 17 their premiums by $700, a $700 increase in 18 premiums in New York City for health insurance 19 under what actions have been taken and are 20 proposed to be taken in this bill. 21 On Long Island, it's a $508 22 increase estimated in health insurance 23 policies on an annual basis. Upstate, it's a 24 $368 increase in the cost of a health

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(518) 371-8910 1 insurance policy. 2 This is real money. It's a real 3 hardship for hard-pressed families and 4 businesses of our state. But there is an 5 answer, and the answer is the amendment that 6 is before us today. 7 This amendment, if we can get the 8 yes votes, would strike this HCRA surcharge 9 from this budget. It would repeal the covered 10 lives assessment that has been passed earlier 11 by this Legislature, signed into law by the 12 Governor. And it would repeal the 13 assessments, the 332 assessments that were 14 part of the deficit reduction plan earlier 15 this year. 16 As we have heard throughout other 17 discussions, there are better ways to cover 18 this loss of revenue, if this amendment 19 passes, by further restraining spending, by 20 consolidating state agencies. The list goes 21 on and on: $3.2 billion that this conference, 22 the Republican side, has offered in terms of 23 additional savings that we can incur and cover 24 the tax reductions that we are seeking through

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(518) 371-8910 1 this amendment. 2 So, Mr. President, I urge a yes 3 vote on this amendment because the people of 4 New York City can ill afford a $700 increase 5 in taxes on their health insurance policies. 6 The people of Long Island can ill afford that 7 $500-plus increase on their health insurance 8 premiums next year. And upstate, we can 9 certainly ill afford a nearly $400 increase in 10 our health insurance policies, only through 11 taxes and assessments imposed by this budget 12 this year. 13 Mr. President, I urge a yes vote. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 15 you, Senator Seward. 16 Senator Hannon, on the amendment. 17 SENATOR HANNON: On the 18 amendment, Mr. President. 19 Senator Seward has eloquently put 20 forward the reasons that we should not be 21 imposing and raising the cost of health 22 insurance throughout the state. 23 I also would like to address myself 24 to the portion of the amendment that we have

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(518) 371-8910 1 put forward so that rural and community 2 hospitals would share in the monies that are 3 otherwise restricted under the provisions of 4 the main bill, and that we lower -- in fact, 5 eliminate the threshold for Medicaid patients 6 as a part of the total discharges for a 7 hospital. 8 Because under the current bill, it 9 requires that for the pool we amend that at 10 least 40 percent or greater of the discharges 11 be Medicaid patients. That limitation alone 12 excludes hospitals that are serving major 13 populations for Medicaid, such as SUNY Upstate 14 or Crouse in Syracuse, Long Island Jewish 15 Medical, Community Memorial, it goes on and 16 on. The list is obvious. There's no reason 17 to exclude them. 18 And by virtue of amending the pool 19 we do amend, there are other pools, this 20 myriad of pools that have been created, there 21 are other pools that are also changed so that 22 people can have the monies that are in this 23 budget fairly distributed, so we can make sure 24 that the rural hospitals are not put at risk,

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(518) 371-8910 1 we can make sure that community hospitals are 2 not put at risk. 3 We also include measures so that we 4 would promote the use of telemedicine in this 5 state to save the administrative costs and to 6 save the Medicaid costs, resulting in a net 7 savings in this budget. 8 I also wanted to discuss what we're 9 trying to do here by striking the provisions 10 of what is called the 332 assessment. That 11 assessment is much like what has been done in 12 regard to the Public Service Commission. The 13 332 assessment was something that was to 14 originally defray operating expenses of the 15 Department of Insurance. 16 And instead we find out that under 17 those expenses we've now added such things as 18 the Healthy New York program, the direct-pay 19 Stop Loss program, the subsidy we give for one 20 of the essential industries in this state, the 21 entertainment industry, for people who don't 22 have insurance. 23 Those fundings through 332 have 24 never been done that way before. 332 had

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(518) 371-8910 1 always been something that would allow for the 2 regulation of the insurance industry. 3 Seventy percent of those assessments come out 4 of the healthcare insurance plans. 5 It's another tax on health 6 insurance, just as the premium taxes, just as 7 the covered lives would be. Those are all 8 things that have to be borne by the people who 9 are getting health insurance. 10 There was some mention in regard to 11 one of these that, well, we're just doing it 12 on for-profits. You know what? 13 Not-for-profit people buy health insurance 14 from for-profit insurers. And there are also 15 not-for-profit insurers. And what we do in 16 regard to these taxes is we affect everybody. 17 In the bill that we are seeking to 18 amend there's some intent language, and it 19 talks about that intent language in a totally 20 duplicitous fashion, because it says we want 21 to reduce a certain number of the uninsured in 22 this state, we want to extend the access to 23 healthcare. Well, when you do it by imposing 24 taxes, you're working in reverse.

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(518) 371-8910 1 So we seek, through this amendment, 2 to make sure we do not have a disincentive to 3 a greater health insurance coverage. We make 4 sure that we take the pools of money and make 5 it available to all hospitals in this state, 6 especially the rural and community hospitals, 7 and that we provide incentives for telehealth. 8 Thank you, Mr. President. I urge 9 people's support for this amendment. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 11 you, Senator Hannon. 12 The question is on the nonsponsor 13 motion to amend Calendar Number 137. All in 14 agreement please signify by raising your hand. 15 Announce the results. 16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 30. Nays, 17 31. 18 Senator Hassell-Thompson, excused. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 20 motion fails. 21 Senator Hannon, on the bill. 22 SENATOR HANNON: This 23 legislation, Mr. President, is the language 24 bill in regard --

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Excuse 2 me, Senator Hannon. You may proceed. 3 SENATOR HANNON: Mr. President, 4 this is the language bill in regard to the 5 health budget that has been presented for 6 enactment for the 2009-2010 fiscal year. 7 When the appropriation bill was up, 8 we saw the Health chairman lead us through 9 what could charitably be called a confusing 10 path of all of the new pools created under 11 this bill. And those new pools were in lieu 12 of what was supposedly an improvement on the 13 current system. 14 I've said that the current system 15 is something that is in deep need of 16 improvement. We've moved towards it over the 17 years, but healthcare is a moving target. 18 What was needed in 2000 is no longer 19 sufficient for 2010. We have populations that 20 get older. We have technologies that improve. 21 We have advances in medicine that we couldn't 22 believe existed just a little while ago. 23 This Republican group of Senators 24 started off a lot of this reform with our

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(518) 371-8910 1 Medicaid Task Force, with our introduction of 2 a Medicaid Inspector General, with our series 3 of amendments over the years. The goals that 4 we find our Governor advancing this year are 5 ones that we were there in the forefront. 6 Preventive care, wellness, we all agree with 7 that. Movement out of institutional settings 8 to ambulatory care, we agree with. 9 The real problem, and it's hard to 10 make it dramatic, is simply how do you do 11 this. Hospitals, nursing homes, home health 12 care agencies exist so that every day of the 13 week, 24 hours a day, they have to provide 14 care to people who are their patients. Making 15 changes in midstream is admittedly very 16 difficult. Making changes abruptly means we 17 face the fact that people can fall off the 18 horse. Making changes abruptly means we can 19 fail to have a good healthcare system. 20 We've heard that people want to 21 have clinics, what they call diagnostic and 22 treatment centers, to take care of folks and 23 we will move people out of emergency rooms. 24 Well, that's all well and good. Except those

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(518) 371-8910 1 clinics or the for-profit emergency care 2 centers run by doctors, they're not open 3 24 hours a day. Call them at 8:30: My child 4 has an earache, my child might have strep 5 throat, maybe it's a tonsillectomy that's 6 needed. 7 Hospitals simply can't avoid it. 8 They have a federal obligation, they have a 9 moral obligation, they have a state 10 obligation. They have to provide the care. 11 So do we make changes? Yes. But 12 do we do it all of a sudden? No. And one of 13 the themes that I really have a problem with 14 are the so-called reforms. Because for all 15 they have the right press releases, for all -- 16 and you can find it in this bill on page 39 -- 17 for all you can set forth wonderful intent, 18 unless you can provide practical, concrete 19 steps to allow people to make these changes, 20 it's not going to happen. 21 Now, yesterday Senator Duane tried 22 to lead us through the huge number of pools 23 that have been created. It's too confusing to 24 lead you through because it's a shell game.

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(518) 371-8910 1 If we create this pool, some people won't get 2 benefited and they will lose, so we'll create 3 another pool. Oh, well, that doesn't work, so 4 we'll create another pool. And what you have 5 is a health bureaucracy -- talented, 6 well-intentioned people who think they can 7 promise to you: Oh, it's all going to be 8 okay. 9 The experience that we have in this 10 state is it's not okay. They can't do things. 11 First of all, to get a new pool that's matched 12 by the federal government is not like the old 13 days where you could have a new Medicaid plan 14 and send it to Washington and it got filed and 15 you got your money. It's not that way 16 anymore. A couple of years ago they said CMS, 17 this federal regulatory agency for Medicaid, 18 has to accept the plan and approve it. 19 And I just don't know -- I hope 20 it's true, because it will go to a lot of good 21 places, but I don't know that the federal 22 government's all of a sudden going to give us 23 another $150 million to $200 million in a year 24 they've already sent us $5 billion in

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(518) 371-8910 1 increased Medicaid matching funds for our 2 budget. Five -- I'm sorry, I misspoke. Not 3 5 million, $5 billion. For this fiscal year, 4 the 2009-2010 fiscal year, 12 months. And 5 we'll have to share 30 percent of that with 6 New York City and the other counties, but the 7 rest of that 70 percent comes here. 8 So are they going to give us a new 9 pool? I don't know. 10 What's the other problem with all 11 these pools? I'm not going to tell you what 12 they do, because the statute that you propose 13 to enact is silent. It doesn't tell you which 14 hospitals get which. We did just have an 15 amendment to get rid of the 40 percent 16 threshold, but it doesn't tell you which 17 hospitals get which. 18 It does not have a mechanism in 19 there for the Health Department or the 20 Division of Budget to tell us where the money 21 is going. There's no reporting requirement 22 that will then let us know where it's going. 23 I mentioned yesterday when we had 24 the approp bill, hospitals come to me and say,

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(518) 371-8910 1 "We've been working with that department for a 2 year, two years, three years. We have a 3 specialized situation. They've told us 4 they'll look into it, they've told us they'll 5 try to help us, they've told us we want to be 6 helped." 7 Now, I'm not going to mention any 8 of those hospitals, because maybe they will be 9 helped. But I'll tell you, it's very doubtful 10 that they will. 11 Anybody go through the Berger 12 Commission closing? Anybody go through the 13 communities being concerned about what was 14 happening there? They all went to the 15 department: "Oh, we'll try to help you." 16 Women's hospital nearby? A community hospital 17 in the city? "We'll try to help you." Were 18 they helped? No. 19 And heaven forbid I bring up Erie 20 County, because that was a massive 21 dislocation. Probably good for health in the 22 end, except if you ask people in the 23 community. Probably good if you ask the 24 experts.

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(518) 371-8910 1 What am I saying? I can't make 2 this black and white, such as Senator Maziarz 3 did with the public service tax. But I can 4 tell you this is an essential service, this is 5 one that evolves every year, this is going to 6 be a continued challenge every year. And this 7 is simply not the way to do it. 8 It's not partisan, it's not 9 political. This is the delivery of services 10 to the people of this state that's an 11 obligation of this government. It's your 12 obligation, and we have not met it in this 13 bill. 14 I really want to take difference 15 with the intent that was lined out, buried in 16 the middle of the bill. Doesn't necessarily 17 say it has a tricky title to it, it just calls 18 itself "This act may be known as the 19 Healthcare Improvement Act." 20 Well, I differ with that. Because 21 it recites about how much we spend, and they 22 say if patients had timely access to quality 23 outpatient care. Well, I'm sorry, you haven't 24 erected a system of quality outpatient care in

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(518) 371-8910 1 this measure. And I'm not even sure that 2 you've put the stepping stones to it. 3 Last year we were supposed to have 4 the beginnings of that with what they called 5 the ambulatory patient group. When I checked 6 on March 1, not one of the federally qualified 7 health centers in this state had taken 8 advantage of that ambulatory patient group 9 system. It's a way of paying. 10 Well, wait a minute. Those are 11 some of the best clinics we have throughout 12 the state. And they're not participating? 13 That's their option, because they're federal. 14 So there are things here that are 15 omitted, even though the intent says they 16 should be there. 17 Supporting providers that serve 18 uninsured patients. I can tell you of a list 19 of providers serving uninsured patients who 20 are not helped by this bill whatsoever. So we 21 haven't helped those uninsured patients. 22 Increasing affordable coverage in 23 partnership with the federal government. I'm 24 not so sure we've done that. I can go on and

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(518) 371-8910 1 on. It's not something that strikes me that 2 we've accomplished, especially when we recite 3 how many New Yorkers are uninsured and we have 4 increased the money paid under covered lives, 5 increased the money paid under patient 6 services, increased the money under the HMO 7 taxes, increased the money under the 8 332 assessment. 9 All of those fall right on the 10 people who pay for health insurance. And if 11 that is a single individual, it makes it 12 almost impossible for them to continue. If 13 that is an employer, small or large, what are 14 they doing? They're passing it right on to 15 the employee, because they raise deductibles, 16 they raise copays, they say that you're going 17 to be limited in the benefits. It almost -- 18 people say we want universal coverage. It 19 doesn't work that way. As a practical matter, 20 it's not there. 21 So what we've been doing with this 22 budget is going the wrong way. It's a nuanced 23 thing, but it is a question of the services 24 we're going to deliver to folks throughout

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(518) 371-8910 1 this state. 2 We have nursing homes that have had 3 the promise of rebasing undercut. We have 4 nursing homes that borrowed based on our 5 statutes that we've passed -- not once, but 6 twice -- in this state. They will essentially 7 get, when you go through the complicated 8 formulas, half of what we promised. How do 9 they pay back those loans? How do they take 10 care of the individuals? It's not clear-cut. 11 We have not done a good job. I'm 12 sorry, I cannot support this measure. 13 Thank you, Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 15 you, Senator Hannon. 16 The Secretary will ring the bells. 17 I ask all Senators to proceed directly to the 18 chamber so that we can expeditiously move to a 19 roll call. 20 The Secretary will read the last 21 section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The

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(518) 371-8910 1 Secretary will call the roll slowly. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Adams. 3 SENATOR ADAMS: Yes. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Addabbo. 5 SENATOR ADDABBO: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Alesi. 7 SENATOR ALESI: No. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator 9 Aubertine. 10 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bonacic. 12 SENATOR BONACIC: No. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Breslin. 14 SENATOR BRESLIN: Yes. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator 16 DeFrancisco. 17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Diaz. 19 SENATOR DIAZ: Si. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Dilan. 21 SENATOR DILAN: I'm thinking 22 about it. Yes. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Duane. 24 SENATOR DUANE: Yes.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 2 SENATOR ESPADA: Yes. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 4 SENATOR FARLEY: No. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Flanagan. 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: No. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Foley. 8 SENATOR FOLEY: Aye. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator 10 Fuschillo. 11 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: No. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Golden. 13 SENATOR GOLDEN: No. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Griffo. 15 SENATOR GRIFFO: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon. 17 SENATOR HANNON: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: With unanimous 19 consent, Senator Hassell-Thompson voting in 20 the affirmative April 2. 21 Senator Huntley. 22 SENATOR HUNTLEY: Yes. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator C. 24 Johnson.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Yes. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator O. 3 Johnson. 4 SENATOR OWEN JOHNSON: No. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator Klein. 6 SENATOR KLEIN: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator 8 L. Krueger. 9 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator C. 11 Kruger. 12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lanza. 14 SENATOR LANZA: No. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 16 SENATOR LARKIN: No. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle. 18 SENATOR LaVALLE: No. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell. 20 SENATOR LEIBELL: No. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous 22 voting in the negative earlier today. 23 Senator Little. 24 SENATOR LITTLE: No.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator 2 Marcellino. 3 SENATOR MARCELLINO: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz. 5 SENATOR MAZIARZ: No. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator McDonald. 7 SENATOR McDONALD: No. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator 9 Monserrate. 10 SENATOR MONSERRATE: Aye. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator 12 Montgomery. 13 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Aye. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Morahan. 15 SENATOR MORAHAN: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nozzolio. 17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Onorato. 19 SENATOR ONORATO: Yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator 21 Oppenheimer. 22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Aye. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 24 SENATOR PADAVAN: No.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Parker. 2 SENATOR PARKER: Aye. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Perkins. 4 SENATOR PERKINS: Yes. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator 6 Ranzenhofer. 7 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: No. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator Robach. 9 SENATOR ROBACH: No. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 11 SENATOR SALAND: No. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sampson. 13 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Savino. 15 SENATOR SAVINO: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator 17 Schneiderman. 18 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Serrano. 20 SENATOR SERRANO: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 22 SENATOR SEWARD: No. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 24 SENATOR SKELOS: No.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith. 2 (Senator Smith recorded as voting 3 in the affirmative.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Squadron. 5 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator 7 Stachowski. 8 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky. 10 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator 12 Stewart-Cousins. 13 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Thompson. 15 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Valesky. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Aye. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker. 19 SENATOR VOLKER: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Winner. 21 SENATOR WINNER: No. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Young. 23 SENATOR YOUNG: No. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The

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(518) 371-8910 1 Secretary will announce the results. 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 32. Nays, 3 30. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 5 bill is passed. 6 Senator Klein. 7 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, to 8 take up the final budget bill, can we take up 9 Calendar 131. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 11 Secretary will read Calendar Number 131. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 131, substituted April 1, Assembly Budget 14 Bill, Assembly Print Number 151A, an act 15 making appropriations for the support of 16 government: Legislature and Judiciary Budget. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 18 Senator DeFrancisco, on the bill. 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I just have 20 a couple of questions. And if Senator Carl 21 Kruger would respond to one of them and yield. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Kruger, do you yield? 24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I do,

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(518) 371-8910 1 Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 Senator yields. 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Without 5 going through the specific numbers, I've read 6 publicly that Senator Smith indicated that the 7 Senate legislative budget was going to be 8 reduced by 8 percent over last year. 9 Is that correct? And was that 10 done? 11 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, it 12 was. 13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: So it is 14 correct, and it was done? 15 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes. 16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Thank you. 17 If Senator John Sampson, chair of 18 Judiciary, could answer a question, I'd 19 appreciate it. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator DeFrancisco, the rules prohibit the 22 chair from asking a member to yield to a 23 question who has not spoken on the bill 24 already.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: All right, 2 point of order. I used to, during the course 3 of the prior proceedings, the Judiciary chair 4 would always be available for questions -- 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Excuse 6 me, Senator DeFrancisco. 7 Could we have some order, please, 8 in the chamber. Shhh. 9 Thank you. 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Excuse me. 11 Point of order. 12 I could always ask Senator Sampson 13 to explain the judiciary budget, but I'm not 14 so sure everybody wants to hear it. And all 15 I'm requesting is that in lieu of that that he 16 answer one area of questions for me. And if 17 he consents, I think he could do that. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator Sampson, do you consent to yield for 20 Senator DeFrancisco? 21 SENATOR SAMPSON: Anytime for 22 Senator DeFrancisco. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Proceed, Senator DeFrancisco.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Thank you. 2 Senator Sampson, in the Governor's 3 proposed budget there was a pot of money 4 designated for judicial salaries. And the 5 understanding was out of the judiciary budget 6 that was submitted by the judiciary and 7 submitted by the Governor, that out of that 8 money there was enough money available for a 9 salary increase for the judiciary. 10 I understand that the language 11 authorizing such an increase is not in the 12 final budget; is that correct? 13 SENATOR SAMPSON: That's correct. 14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: All right. 15 Would he answer one last question? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator Sampson, do you continue to yield? 18 SENATOR SAMPSON: Of course. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 20 Senator yields. 21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: In order 22 for the judiciary to receive a salary increase 23 from this budget, is it correct that there 24 would have to be a separate bill authorizing

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(518) 371-8910 1 such an increase separate and apart from this 2 budget? 3 SENATOR SAMPSON: That's correct, 4 Senator. Through you, Mr. Chair, that is 5 correct, Senator DeFrancisco. 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: One last 7 question, I'm sorry, just to be clear. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 9 Senator Sampson, do you continue to yield? 10 SENATOR SAMPSON: Through you, 11 Mr. President, yes, I do. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 13 Senator yields. 14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Stated 15 another way, the only mechanism for a judicial 16 salary increase would be through a separate 17 piece of legislation. And just because the 18 same money is in the budget, that would not 19 authorize, for example, the head of the Office 20 of Court Administration or the Chief Judge of 21 the Court of Appeals to simply grant an 22 increase? 23 SENATOR SAMPSON: Through you, 24 Mr. President, you are correct, Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 DeFrancisco. 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Thank you. 3 I have no further questions. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 5 you, Senator DeFrancisco. 6 The Secretary will ring the bells. 7 I ask all Senators to proceed to the chamber 8 for purposes of a roll call. 9 The Secretary will read the last 10 section. 11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 12 act shall take effect immediately. 13 SENATOR SKELOS: Slow roll call, 14 please. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 16 Secretary will proceed with a slow roll call. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Adams. 18 SENATOR ADAMS: Aye. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Addabbo. 20 SENATOR ADDABBO: Yes. 21 THE SECRETARY: Senator Alesi. 22 SENATOR ALESI: No. 23 THE SECRETARY: Senator 24 Aubertine.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR AUBERTINE: Yes. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Bonacic. 3 SENATOR BONACIC: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Breslin. 5 SENATOR BRESLIN: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator 7 DeFrancisco. 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Diaz. 10 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Dilan. 12 SENATOR DILAN: Yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Duane. 14 SENATOR DUANE: Yes. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Espada. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator Espada, to explain his vote. 18 SENATOR ESPADA: Thank you, 19 Mr. President. 20 As this is my last vote in this 21 cycle of budget bills, many questions have 22 been asked about the economic stimulus dollar, 23 what to call it, where it is going, will it 24 stimulate, will it work.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And some of the exchanges have been 2 fair. But just to be totally fair, when some 3 of us go back home Monday, courtesy of 4 Governor Paterson, who has given me permission 5 to share this, $253 million of the economic 6 stimulus budget will be going -- to Senator 7 Breslin, $18.3 million. Monday, we will get 8 to celebrate that. Senator McDonald, 9 $12.1 million in his Senate district. Senator 10 Robach, $4.7 million. Senator Robach again, 11 $6.3 million. Mr. President, $24.5 million. 12 And the list could really go on and will total 13 $253 million this Monday. 14 And those opportunities and those 15 stimuli will be present in every community. 16 So for those who have not found the gold, for 17 those who have not found the silver lining, it 18 will be present. Look for it Monday in your 19 districts and all year long. 20 Thank you very much. I vote aye. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Senator Espada to be recorded in the 23 affirmative. 24 The Secretary will continue.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator Farley. 2 SENATOR FARLEY: Aye -- no. 3 (Laughter.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Flanagan. 5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: No. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator Foley. 7 SENATOR FOLEY: Aye. 8 THE SECRETARY: Senator 9 Fuschillo. 10 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Golden. 12 SENATOR GOLDEN: No. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Griffo. 14 SENATOR GRIFFO: No. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Hannon. 16 SENATOR HANNON: No. 17 THE SECRETARY: With unanimous 18 consent, Senator Hassell-Thompson voted in the 19 affirmative April 2. 20 Senator Huntley. 21 SENATOR HUNTLEY: Yes. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator C. 23 Johnson. 24 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Yes.

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(518) 371-8910 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator O. 2 Johnson. 3 SENATOR OWEN JOHNSON: No. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Klein. 5 SENATOR KLEIN: Yes. 6 THE SECRETARY: Senator 7 L. Krueger. 8 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator C. 10 Kruger. 11 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Lanza. 13 SENATOR LANZA: No. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Larkin. 15 SENATOR LARKIN: No. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator LaValle. 17 SENATOR LaVALLE: No. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Leibell. 19 SENATOR LEIBELL: No. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Libous 21 voting in the negative earlier today. 22 Senator Little. 23 SENATOR LITTLE: No. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator

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(518) 371-8910 1 Marcellino. 2 SENATOR MARCELLINO: No. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Maziarz. 4 SENATOR MAZIARZ: No. 5 THE SECRETARY: Senator McDonald. 6 SENATOR McDONALD: No. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator 8 Monserrate. 9 SENATOR MONSERRATE: Aye. 10 THE SECRETARY: Senator 11 Montgomery. 12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Aye. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Morahan. 14 SENATOR MORAHAN: No. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Nozzolio. 16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: No. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Onorato. 18 SENATOR ONORATO: Yes. 19 THE SECRETARY: Senator 20 Oppenheimer. 21 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Aye. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Padavan. 23 SENATOR PADAVAN: No. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Parker.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR PARKER: Aye. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Perkins. 3 SENATOR PERKINS: Aye. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator 5 Ranzenhofer. 6 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: No. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Robach. 8 SENATOR ROBACH: No. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Saland. 10 SENATOR SALAND: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Sampson. 12 SENATOR SAMPSON: Yes. 13 THE SECRETARY: Senator Savino. 14 SENATOR SAVINO: Yes. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator 16 Schneiderman. 17 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. 18 THE SECRETARY: Senator Serrano. 19 SENATOR SERRANO: Yes. 20 THE SECRETARY: Senator Seward. 21 SENATOR SEWARD: No. 22 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos. 23 SENATOR SKELOS: No. 24 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR SMITH: Yes. 2 THE SECRETARY: Senator Squadron. 3 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes. 4 THE SECRETARY: Senator 5 Stachowski. 6 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes. 7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Stavisky. 8 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator 10 Stewart-Cousins. 11 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: Yes. 12 THE SECRETARY: Senator Thompson. 13 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes. 14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Valesky. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Aye. 16 THE SECRETARY: Senator Volker. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 18 Senator Volker, to explain his vote. 19 SENATOR VOLKER: Well, it's not 20 quite to explain my vote. 21 I just want to announce to the 22 members that today is the 10th anniversary of 23 the death of one of the great friends of those 24 people in this chamber, John Brendan Daly, who

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(518) 371-8910 1 is the predecessor of George here, and he died 2 on April 3, 1999. I just wanted to tell 3 everybody to remind them. 4 I vote no. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 6 you. Senator Volker to be recorded in the 7 negative. 8 The Secretary will continue. 9 THE SECRETARY: Senator Winner. 10 SENATOR WINNER: No. 11 THE SECRETARY: Senator Young. 12 SENATOR YOUNG: No. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 14 Secretary will announce the results. 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 32. Nays, 16 30. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 18 bill is passed. 19 Senator Smith, that completes the 20 reading of the controversial calendar. 21 Senator Skelos. 22 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, 23 Mr. President. 24 Normally at this time of year when

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(518) 371-8910 1 we complete our budget process, and even 2 though it is three days late, we tend to 3 congratulate each other, say how hard we all 4 worked, we made difficult decisions. We pat 5 each other on the back. 6 Unfortunately, I can't stand here 7 and say that, because I feel I'd be 8 hypocritical. 9 I want to start off by thanking 10 Senator John DeFrancisco, our ranker on 11 Finance, the wonderful finance staff that we 12 have on the Republican side, and each and 13 every Republican member for participating in 14 this part of the budget process since they 15 were put on our desks, and really to expose 16 the deficiencies and really how bad this 17 budget is that the Democrats passed and that 18 we voted against and how anti-family, how 19 anti-business this budget is. 20 We start off by the process. My 21 good friends on the Democrat side of the aisle 22 pledged to the people of the State of 23 New York, when they campaigned to become the 24 majority party, how things would be different.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Well, they are certainly different. Because 2 they managed, the three Democrat leaders from 3 New York City, to make this the biggest sham 4 and the most disgraceful way to negotiate a 5 budget. 6 And really what is unconscionable 7 to me, especially when so many of the members 8 here campaigned on transparency and the fact 9 that there would be openness, there would be a 10 vibrant discussion of issues, that everybody 11 would be involved -- what you did by this 12 process is not just close out us as 13 Republicans, representing almost 50 percent of 14 the state, but what's really unforgivable is 15 that you shut out the people of this great 16 state. 17 You shut out the media. And we all 18 at times have difference with the media. We 19 may not like what they write, sometimes, or 20 what they put on TV or radio. But part of our 21 process of government is for the media to 22 challenge us, to let the public know what's 23 going on, and for us to be part of the 24 process, both Republicans and Democrats.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And what we saw from the three 2 leaders from New York City was a total 3 shutdown of that process. They closed the 4 curtains, they went behind closed doors -- 5 everything that every single one of you here 6 said would not happen, would not happen if you 7 gained the majority. It is the worst display 8 of arrogance that I've ever seen in Albany 9 since I've been here now for my 25th year. 10 We may have had disagreements on 11 process in the past. But under the Senate 12 majority we opened up the process. We started 13 joint conference committees. There were 14 resolutions. There were budgets put out on 15 the floor. There were joint conference 16 committees. There was something out there for 17 us to see as members, but even more important, 18 for the press to see and for our public to 19 see -- our voters, our taxpayers, those who 20 are struggling, those who have had it, like 21 Senator Fuschillo indicated. 22 And nobody ever said it better on 23 this floor than Senator George Maziarz, who 24 spoke so eloquently on behalf of the

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(518) 371-8910 1 hardworking, overtaxed families of New York 2 State. 3 So in all honesty, I can't say this 4 has been a great process. I can't say or 5 accept when some will say these are difficult 6 times so difficult choices had to be made and 7 they had to be made behind closed doors. A 8 Governor who has indicated -- and he was going 9 to be a great reformer -- how the process 10 would be open. And then he says, "Well, you 11 can't negotiate a budget in public." 12 Why not? Why can't you negotiate a 13 budget in public? We represent the people. 14 And they have a right to know what we're 15 negotiating, not just a couple of days before 16 these are plopped, thousands of pages, on our 17 desks, and they're expected to go through that 18 and understand fully how these documents 19 impact their everyday lives. 20 The people of the State of 21 New York, our hardworking folks, have really 22 had it. I have never, never, in all the years 23 that I've been here -- and I've dealt with 24 difficult budgets -- have I seen such an

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(518) 371-8910 1 outpouring of disgust, anguish, and fear by my 2 constituents and by all of the constituents 3 that we represent on this side of the aisle 4 and quite frankly that you represent on your 5 side of the aisle. Republicans, Democrats. 6 And yet the Democrat side of the 7 aisle, the Democrat Governor and the Democrat 8 Speaker, you turned your backs on those 9 people. You didn't make tough choices. You 10 just overspent and you taxed. Taxed, make 11 it -- just keep taxing. By raising taxes the 12 way you did, $8 billion to spend $13 billion 13 more, and growing. 14 That's the coward's way of doing 15 it, by raising taxes. That's the easy way. 16 That's not the hard way. You put some figures 17 together, you pop up some percentage points, 18 you attack the so-called rich, you don't tell 19 the people that it's the small-businesspeople 20 that you're attacking with income tax 21 increases, the utility increases, the fee 22 increases. 23 That's why you want it to be behind 24 closed doors, because you did not want the

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(518) 371-8910 1 people of the State of New York to know what 2 you were going to do to them. You didn't 3 listen to Tom DiNapoli, Democrat Comptroller, 4 who said this budget is totally out of whack 5 and unsustainable -- not just now, but down 6 the road. 7 So, Mr. President, I'm just going 8 to conclude by saying thank you to my 9 Republican colleagues for standing up for 10 middle-income families, for hardworking 11 families, the people that are holding down 12 sometimes two and three jobs to make ends 13 meet. I thank you for standing up. 14 And I hope when my friends on the 15 Democrat side of the aisle go home that they 16 listen to people in their districts, they 17 listen to them about what you did to small 18 businesses, what you have done to utility 19 rates, what you have done to increase the 20 costs of health insurance premiums, what 21 you've done to increase license fees, 22 registration fees, tax on wine, tax on beer, 23 tax on cigars -- anything, you taxed it. And 24 that was wrong.

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(518) 371-8910 1 So hopefully, hopefully at some 2 point the Democrats will come to your senses, 3 the Governor will come to his senses. He does 4 have an opportunity to eliminate, through 5 veto, some of these things. 6 But I hope you come to your senses 7 and understand that this is not about patting 8 yourself on the back and saying what a great 9 job we did during these difficult times. Your 10 job is to represent the people of this state, 11 your constituents, and not make their lives 12 more difficult during these difficult 13 recession economic times. 14 So I appreciate, Mr. President, the 15 courtesy for allowing me to speak. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator Smith. 18 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you very 19 much, Mr. President. 20 This week we saw and were a part of 21 two things that I believe should help all of 22 us put our life into some perspective. 23 We saw Senator Ruth 24 Hassell-Thompson, a dear colleague of ours,

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(518) 371-8910 1 who became ill. And because of her commitment 2 to her career and her job, because of other 3 commitments to each and every one of you in 4 this chamber and those of you under the sound 5 of my voice, she pulled herself out of the 6 hospital in a wheelchair, twice, and came to 7 this chamber to do her job. 8 Whether you disagree or agree with 9 her in terms of what she believes in, her 10 ideology, the bottom line is her commitment to 11 the job, to the people of this state, is very 12 clear by her action. 13 You saw our dear colleague Senator 14 Libous, who spent 45 minutes with me in my 15 office almost in tears about what was 16 happening in Binghamton. He got on the phone, 17 and I suggested to him, "Check with your wife, 18 where is she, where is your children" -- he 19 said in the Bronx, he wasn't worried. And I 20 said, "Make sure your family is nowhere in 21 that surroundings." 22 Senator Adams was in my office and 23 ministered to him by telling him what to do 24 with his office in terms of dealing with the

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(518) 371-8910 1 people that was at a scene, a law enforcement 2 scene, that took them by surprise. He 3 explained to him what he should be doing. 4 Didn't matter that Senator Libous 5 had a different ideology than Senator Ruth 6 Hassell-Thompson, didn't matter that Senator 7 Libous or Senator Ruth Hassell-Thompson had a 8 different ideology than Senator Carl Kruger or 9 Senator Bonacic. 10 What mattered was that there was 11 two moments that occurred that required us as 12 members of a body to rise above everything and 13 recognize that there is a purpose for us being 14 here, and we have to be there for each other 15 when that moment occurs, like it or not. 16 We have colleagues here who did a 17 tremendous job -- on both sides of the aisle. 18 I heard most of the debate. Senator Carl 19 Kruger did a tremendous job. 20 My colleague, my deputy, my friend 21 Senator Jeff Klein did a tremendous job, 22 sitting here hours and hours over the last 23 three or four days, taking a lot of grief, 24 taking a lot of accusations.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Valesky, things being 2 spoken to him that we thought shouldn't be 3 spoken on the floor of the Senate. 4 But we stayed here, and we did our 5 job. The staff on both sides worked countless 6 hours, from three weeks ago, 24 hours a day, 7 seven days a week. Eating pizza, peanut 8 butter and jelly, anything that was required 9 to keep their energy high. On both sides of 10 the aisle. I can't imagine what you went 11 through. But I know we all went through a 12 lot, and I thank the staff tremendously. 13 My colleagues, again, whether it 14 was Senator Adams, whether it was Senator 15 Parker, whether it was Senator Liz Krueger, 16 whether it was Senator Schneiderman, whether 17 it was Tom Duane, whether it was my good 18 friend Antoine Thompson, Toby Stavisky, 19 Shirley Huntley, whether it was Craig Johnson, 20 whether it was Brian Foley. 21 The bottom line is -- Senator 22 Espada, Senator Monserrate -- everyone put 23 time in because they believed in why they were 24 here.

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(518) 371-8910 1 I want to thank the Governor, and I 2 want to thank the Speaker as well. Because 3 they also were part of doing what they thought 4 was the best thing for all of us. 5 But I do want to put a little bit 6 of this in some perspective, and I want to 7 read something that was a Post editorial. 8 It says: "There was much ballyhoo 9 about a not-late budget approved by 10 legislators last week, which may not have been 11 late, but it was incomplete, it was not openly 12 arrived at, and it was not honest." That was 13 in 2005. You were in the majority. 14 Then let's go further. The 15 editorial says, about conference committees -- 16 I didn't write this; it's the Post, 2005 -- 17 "The public seemed to be largely appeased by 18 the mock negotiating sessions in which 19 lawmakers pretended to hash out spending plans 20 but in reality discussed the agreements that 21 had already been agreed to behind closed 22 doors." 2005. I didn't write that. 23 I've got one more for you, because 24 I know there was much discussion about

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(518) 371-8910 1 spending. And we all know that you cannot cut 2 your way back to prosperity. The President, 3 thank God for him, understands that every 4 economist from here to Europe has told you 5 that you have to spend money in order to 6 stimulate the economy, especially in this kind 7 of recession. 8 "Pataki figures the true price of 9 the budget will be $115 billion. Four years 10 ago, the bill was $91 billion, including 11 boatloads of fat and waste. This year, it 12 will be some $25 billion more, a whopping 13 27 percent jump." That was 2005-2006. 14 This budget is not a 25 percent 15 jump. This budget is not $25 billion more 16 than last year. The budget this year is 17 $131.8 billion. I think Senator Krueger and 18 Senator Kruger spelled it out very carefully 19 to you. $7.2 billion was stimulus. 20 $2 billion restoration -- that's real money -- 21 for hospitals, for schools, for programs in 22 many of your districts; SUNY, very important 23 to all of us. 24 $1.2 billion reappropriation for

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(518) 371-8910 1 capital. Most of that capital money is your 2 projects. We wasn't in the majority last 3 year. Your capital money has not been 4 released yet. That's your money. 5 Debt service. Your debt service. 6 We did not bond the future like the Pataki 7 eras. You did that. 8 Now, let's talk about what this 9 budget does. By enacting this budget, a 10 $17.7 billion gap that we had, we have reduced 11 our multiyear deficit by 80 percent. This is 12 real economic math. $60 billion multiyear 13 deficit, it now goes down to $11 billion. 14 Check the rating companies. Check your 15 economists. This is good budgeting. 16 Let's talk about the General Fund. 17 $55.3 billion General Fund. We decreased the 18 General Fund, by the way, by $21 million from 19 your budget from last year, which is actually, 20 when you adjust it for inflation, a 3 percent 21 cut in spending. 22 Don't feel bad about this budget, 23 my colleagues. You did the right thing. 24 Now let's talk a little bit about

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(518) 371-8910 1 the PIT. Because I know everybody says the 2 PIT, you did a $4 billion PIT, you're taxing 3 people out of the State of New York. They're 4 all leaving. Everybody making over $200,000, 5 $300,000 are leaving. 6 And I know some of you make over 7 $200,000. You're not leaving. I know you're 8 not leaving. 9 But more importantly, let's put 10 that in perspective, ladies and gentlemen, my 11 colleagues, my staff, staff on both sides. 12 Ninety-six percent of the people in the State 13 of New York are not impacted by the PIT. I'll 14 say it again. Ninety-six percent of the 15 people in the State of New York are not 16 impacted by this PIT. 17 Four percent. And I think some of 18 you on this side of the aisle are in that 19 4 percent, and I'm sorry. But I don't think 20 you'll leave. I think you will help out the 21 State of New York because you're committed 22 public servants and you know that means trying 23 to put us back on track. And I thank you for 24 that.

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(518) 371-8910 1 In terms of the process, am I happy 2 with the process? Absolutely not. Where I 3 pointed out the process to you in 2005 and 4 2006, it wasn't to point a finger and it 5 wasn't to say two wrongs make a right. Two 6 wrongs do not make a right. 7 We have to do better. We 8 campaigned on reform. We campaigned on 9 transparency. We changed the rules when we 10 first got here so that Senator Bonacic and 11 Senator Valesky could chair a reform committee 12 which they will put out a report by the 24th 13 to both Dean and I. And we together are going 14 to make some adjustments on how this chamber 15 is run. 16 But we did not create this moment. 17 We inherited this moment. All we did was make 18 tough decisions about a bad situation that was 19 created 12 years ago. And I appreciate your 20 passion, but I need all of you to take a 21 moment and think about the past. You created 22 this past. 23 And on top of this was the 24 recession, which we didn't create.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Foreclosure markets, deregulation down on 2 Wall Street, we all know about that. That 3 contributed to what is now one of the worst 4 economic moments in our history. But on top 5 of that, it was the out-of-control spending 6 that went on for 12 years. So all we're 7 trying to do is correct it. 8 We can't cut our way back to 9 prosperity. We have to spend some money. So 10 you heard my colleague Senator Duane: 11 $800 million in restorations for hospitals, 12 $16 million for upstate hospitals, suburban 13 and community hospitals. 14 You heard my colleague Suzi 15 Oppenheimer talk about school funding at the 16 2008-2009 level, maintain foundation aid and 17 high tax aid, restore teacher centers and 18 libraries. 19 Toby Stavisky talked about full 20 restoration, $42 million, of SUNY and CUNY, 21 $65 million full restoration of college base 22 aid. Medgar Evers is going to have its senior 23 college status. $25 million for SUNY 24 hospitals.

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(518) 371-8910 1 You heard Senator Antoine Thompson, 2 his bottle bill, 20 percent back to 3 distributors, $22 million for parks and for 4 botanical gardens. A green initiative in 5 Buffalo. 6 Rockefeller drug laws, you heard 7 Senators Hassell-Thompson, Schneiderman, and 8 Sampson. Forty years, that law has not 9 changed. It will save us close to 10 $250 million, a quarter of a billion dollars 11 that we can recycle. Fourteen-hundred police 12 officers back on our streets. Operation 13 S.N.U.G. Gun violence, gang violence, gun 14 violence, shooting people -- this program 15 helps to change that and stop that. 16 Bill Stachowski: Film industry, we 17 get $3 for every $1 we invest. Centers for 18 Advanced Technology. Waterfront development 19 in Buffalo. 20 Senator Espada, rural housing 21 assistance, $25 million in foreclosure 22 prevention. 23 Senator Dilan, a billion dollars 24 for highways, $2 billion for rails.

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(518) 371-8910 1 And as much as we talked about the 2 STAR program, there is still $3.3 billion in 3 property tax relief through the STAR program. 4 Do we have to do mandate relief? 5 Yes, and we will. Do we have to deal with 6 property taxes? Yes, and we will. Do we have 7 to deal with the MTA so that bridges and roads 8 in upstate and suburban Long Island get their 9 just due? Yes, and we will. 10 And we did all of that, as my good 11 friend Senator Kruger told you, with 13 public 12 hearings. That's pretty public. Four hundred 13 twenty-eight groups testified at those 14 hearings. That's pretty public. One thousand 15 letters that we received in one office; that 16 was pretty public. 17 You heard Senator Maziarz. Welcome 18 to the 21st century; I heard you talk about 19 Twitter and MySpace, all the social networks. 20 God bless you for that, because that's the 21 real world. We had 10,000 hits on our social 22 network. One thousand pages of testimony. 23 Now, could we have done better than 24 that, colleagues? There's no question. But

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(518) 371-8910 1 that clearly was not a secret process. Many 2 of you, whether you felt it was accessible at 3 the rate that you wanted it to, had dialogue 4 and sent communication to our colleagues. 5 Some of that information that you shared with 6 them was in the budget, and you heard that 7 during these last three days of testimony. 8 So what I'm saying to each and 9 every one of you is -- and I differ with my 10 respected colleague, Senator Skelos. I think 11 you have a lot to be proud of. Because you 12 know when leadership is made? Leadership is 13 made when crisis is at its best. And we are 14 at a crisis right now, ladies and gentlemen. 15 Don't be fooled. There is no state in this 16 country, no state in this country that is not 17 at crisis level. And this is the year that 18 Democrats and Republicans, the 62 members of 19 this body, put New York State in a place where 20 it's going to be back on track. 21 Are there some things that are 22 going to hurt? There's no question about it. 23 You think I want to tax people? I ran a 24 business for 12 years, real estate

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(518) 371-8910 1 development. The last thing I want to do is 2 tax my income. I need my money. But at the 3 same time, we have an obligation to take care 4 of those who need being taken care of. That's 5 just the way life is. 6 We are not going to be here 7 forever. There are generations coming after 8 us. We are here for the purpose of those next 9 generations. And whether you like it or not, 10 that's the obligation that you accepted when 11 you signed your oath of office, for good or 12 bad or indifferent. It's like marriage, till 13 death do you part. You have to be there for 14 good times and bad times. 15 And this may not be the best of 16 times, but we're here. We are here. And so 17 now we have to do our job. 18 So I appreciate your passion. I 19 understand your passion, Senator Fuschillo. I 20 understand your passion, Senator Maziarz. I 21 understand your passion also, Senator Morahan. 22 But look at me in my eyes. Do you 23 really believe that I came to this place, like 24 my colleagues, to hurt somebody? Do you

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(518) 371-8910 1 really believe that I came to this august 2 body, like my colleagues, because we wanted to 3 devastate somebody's life, that we wanted to 4 destroy somebody's business, that we wanted to 5 make sure somebody moves out of the State of 6 New York? 7 You don't believe that for one 8 moment. There's just no way you want to 9 believe that. You know me. You know my 10 heart, you know my passion. You know my 11 colleagues, when you talk to each other when 12 you're inside that room, the lounge, different 13 from this floor. 14 And I tell you as I stand here 15 before you, we all have an obligation to do 16 what's best for this state. This is not the 17 best of times, Mr. President. But I will tell 18 you, the best of times is coming. 19 And all we have to do is stand 20 firm, deliver the bad news like leadership can 21 do, be forward and honest, but at the same 22 time deliver the good news that we stood up 23 and did what we had to do during one of the 24 worst crises in the State of New York. And

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(518) 371-8910 1 God will bless all of us for taking on the 2 challenge that we took on today. 3 Thank you very much. 4 (Applause.) 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Smith. 7 SENATOR SMITH: Mr. President, is 8 there any further business at the desk? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Smith, the desk is clear. 11 SENATOR SMITH: There being none, 12 Mr. President, I move that we adjourn until 13 Monday, April 6, at 3:00 p.m., intervening 14 days to be legislative days. 15 And I would ask that the Democratic 16 Majority come to the Majority Conference Room 17 for a five-minute conference. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: On a 19 motion by Senator Smith, and there being no 20 further business to come before the Senate, 21 the Senate stands adjourned until Monday, 22 April 6th, at 3:00 p.m., intervening days 23 being legislative days. 24 (Whereupon, at 4:45 p.m., the Senate adjourned.)

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(518) 371-8910