Wednesday, January 20, 2010

1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE 2 3 4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 January 20, 2010 11 12:22 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR NEIL D. BRESLIN, Acting President 19 ANGELO J. APONTE, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The 3 Senate will please come to order. 4 I ask all present to please rise 5 and repeat the Pledge of Allegiance to the 6 Flag. 7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The 10 invocation today will be given by the Reverend 11 Peter G. Young, of the Mother Theresa 12 Community in Albany. 13 REVEREND YOUNG: Let us pray. 14 As we gather in the midst of the 15 budget concerns, may we pray for those who are 16 affected by today's continuing after-care 17 after the tremors in Haiti. All people are 18 called to respond to assist those in need. 19 God, You have given us many 20 different gifts that we have to respond with, 21 but it is always the spirit in this chamber 22 that You guide us. There are many different 23 ways to serve as Senators, but it is always 24 You, O God, that have granted them to be used

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 for the good of our New York State citizens. 2 God has gifted each Senator with a 3 special potential to help constituents. Let 4 us take a moment to thank God for the talents 5 and the skills that we thank You for, for 6 these gifts of these Senators, unique to each 7 Senator. 8 And let us again pray and rejoice 9 in You who have given and made us dedicate our 10 gifts to those to the good of our New York 11 State citizens. 12 Amen. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 14 you, Father Young. 15 The reading of the Journal. 16 The Secretary will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 18 Tuesday, January 19, the Senate met pursuant 19 to adjournment. The Journal of Monday, 20 January 18, was read and approved. On motion, 21 Senate adjourned. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 23 Without objection, the Journal stands approved 24 as read.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Presentation of petitions. 2 Messages from the Assembly. 3 Messages from the Governor. 4 Reports of standing committees. 5 Reports of select committees. 6 Communications and reports from 7 state officers. 8 Motions and resolutions. 9 Senator Smith. 10 SENATOR SMITH: Yes, 11 Mr. President. I believe there is a 12 resolution by Senator Sampson at the desk. I 13 ask that the resolution be read in its 14 entirety and move for its immediate adoption. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 16 Senator Smith, has this resolution been deemed 17 privileged and submitted to the office of the 18 Temporary President? 19 SENATOR SMITH: Yes, 20 Mr. President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The 22 Secretary will read. 23 THE SECRETARY: By Senators 24 Sampson, Skelos, Thompson, Hassell-Thompson

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 and Adams, legislative resolution celebrating 2 the observance of the 25th National Martin 3 Luther King, Jr., Day. 4 "WHEREAS, This Legislative Body is 5 proudly moved to honor and pay tribute to the 6 life and works of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.; 7 and 8 "WHEREAS, Across this great state 9 and nation, many events were held on 10 January 18, 2010, to recognize the 25th 11 National Martin Luther King, Jr., Day. This 12 year's theme 'Saluting Greatness: The Legacy 13 of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.' serves as an 14 excellent rallying point to continue the 15 dialogue that transmits the message of the 16 virtues Dr. King and Mrs. King stood for, such 17 as selflessness, sacrifice, determination, 18 dignity and equality. Their lives were 19 committed to the service of others for the 20 greater good; and 21 "WHEREAS, People of all ages and 22 backgrounds came together to improve lives, 23 bridge social barriers, and move our nation 24 closer to the 'Beloved Community' that

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., envisioned. He 2 devoted his life's work to causes of equality 3 and social justice; and 4 "WHEREAS, Born the grandson of a 5 slave into a segregated society in Atlanta, 6 Georgia, on January 15, 1929, Dr. Martin 7 Luther King, Jr., was instrumental in 8 formulating the policy which ultimately led to 9 the American civil rights movement nationwide; 10 and 11 "WHEREAS, Dr. Martin Luther King, 12 Jr., wanted us to remember him as a person who 13 tried to live his life serving others, that he 14 tried to love somebody, and that he tried to 15 love and serve humanity; and 16 "WHEREAS, Dr. King taught that 17 through nonviolence and service to one 18 another, problems such as hunger and 19 homelessness, prejudice and discrimination can 20 be overcome. His teachings can continue to 21 guide us in addressing America's most pressing 22 needs of poverty, economic insecurity, job 23 loss and education; and 24 "WHEREAS, Dr. Martin Luther King,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Jr., was a vital figure of the modern era. 2 His lectures and dialogues stirred the concern 3 and sparked the conscience of a generation; 4 and 5 "WHEREAS, The movements and marches 6 Dr. King led brought significant changes to 7 the fabric of American life through his 8 courage and selfless devotion. This devotion 9 gave direction to 13 years of civil rights 10 activities, and his charismatic leadership 11 inspired men and women, young and old, 12 throughout the United States and around the 13 world; and 14 "WHEREAS, Dr. King's concept of 15 'somebodiness,' which symbolized the 16 celebration of human worth and the conquest of 17 subjugation, gave African-Americans and the 18 poor hope and a sense of dignity. His 19 philosophy of nonviolent direct action and his 20 strategies for rational and non-destructive 21 social change galvanized the conscience of 22 America and reordered its priorities. His 23 wisdom, his words, his actions, his 24 commitment, and his dream for a new way of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 life are intertwined with the American 2 experience; and 3 "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this 4 Legislative Body that the common and shared 5 responsibility of governance demands an 6 irrevocable commitment to the preservation and 7 enhancement of human dignity as exemplified by 8 Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.; now, therefore, 9 be it 10 "RESOLVED, That this Legislative 11 Body pause in its deliberations to celebrate 12 the observance of the 25th National Martin 13 Luther King, Jr., Day." 14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 15 Senator Hassell-Thompson. 16 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank 17 you, Mr. President. 18 I rise to thank this body for this 19 opportunity to commemorate the life of 20 Dr. King and to just say very quickly on the 21 record that as we deliberate in these 22 chambers, we do so with the idea of the dream 23 in mind. That it is our wish that we remember 24 that peace is not just the absence of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 violence, but that it is the presence of 2 justice. 3 Thank you, Mr. President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 5 you, Senator Hassell-Thompson. 6 Senator Parker. 7 SENATOR PARKER: Thank you, 8 Mr. President. On the resolution. 9 MLK Day is always an important time 10 for me, as it is, I think, for many 11 African-Americans around the country. I know 12 myself I would not have an opportunity to 13 represent the 21st District in Brooklyn if it 14 was not for the work of Dr. King, members of 15 the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, 16 SNCC, members of the Black Power movement, and 17 others who gave their life, their time, shed 18 blood and tears to make sure that 19 African-Americans had a place in terms of the 20 line of opportunity here in America. 21 And we get caught up in the dream, 22 and I think people like that. People like the 23 idea of something that was part of sleep but 24 not really part of reality. And really, when

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 you talk about what Dr. King was really about 2 and the message he delivered, and particularly 3 in D.C., that it really wasn't much about the 4 dream. In fact, the idea of the dream was an 5 ad lib. 6 What he did come to talk about was 7 the idea of cashing in a check of justice that 8 at that point was marked "unfulfilled." I 9 would say now that we've made some deposits on 10 it, but it's still not completely fulfilled. 11 It is, in my view, the mission of 12 the members of this body and in this chamber 13 on both sides of the aisle to make sure that 14 that check is marked "sufficient." And not 15 just sufficient for African-Americans, but 16 sufficient for all Americans, all New Yorkers, 17 all people of goodwill in this state. 18 And so lastly I just wanted to 19 point to the second thing he talked about, and 20 that was the importance of the now. That it 21 wasn't just important just to say that we have 22 to someday get this check fulfilled 23 sufficient, but we have to do it now. 24 And let me just say, colleagues,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 that now is the time for us to do the right 2 things by the people of the State of New York. 3 Now is the time for us to come together and 4 make sure that we continue to fully fund 5 education. Now is the time to make sure that 6 we in fact have a jobs program for people in 7 the state. Now is the time to make sure that 8 people's property taxes are in fact in line 9 with their incomes and people are not being 10 overburdened. Now is the time that we make 11 sure that healthcare is really available for 12 all people. Now is the time that adequate 13 housing needs to be fulfilled. 14 And we have bills in this body that 15 would do those things. And I would say that 16 we should not wait until the budget and wait 17 until this or the other thing happens or wait 18 until the elections come and wait for that -- 19 we have to do what King asked us to do, which 20 is to act in the now. 21 And so it's important, if we're 22 going to remember the life and legacy of 23 Dr. King, not simply to remember the dream, 24 but to make sure, Mr. President, that we are

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 in fact acting in the now and honoring his 2 legacy with action. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 4 you, Senator Parker. 5 Senator Larkin. 6 SENATOR LARKIN: Thank you, 7 Mr. President. 8 You know, in one respect it's a 9 shame we didn't do this on the holiday or we 10 didn't do it on the 15th day of January, which 11 was his birthday. 12 I don't know how many people in 13 this room ever met Dr. King face to face, ever 14 shook hands with him. But if you did, you'd 15 now that when Dr. King talked to you -- and I 16 know it, because I met him, short visit, 17 10 minutes, Selma, Alabama, 21 March, 1965 -- 18 Dr. King looked right at you. He didn't look 19 to see who was watching him, he looked right 20 at you and said how important the mission was. 21 And I think all of us -- I just 22 heard what Senator Parker said, and I think we 23 all ought to remember in August of 1963 in 24 Washington, D.C., when Dr. King said he had a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 dream. And I think a lot of people today, 2 young and old, have forgot the contents of 3 that message. The message wasn't to go out 4 and spread anger or violence. The message was 5 try to come together and do something 6 positive -- not for African-Americans, but for 7 all Americans, for young and old. Dr. King 8 had a perfect message. 9 When he was killed in April of 1968 10 in Memphis, Tennessee, he was there to help 11 the sanitation workers. And I see a lot of 12 people say they did this, they did this. You 13 know what? Go back and read the speech of 14 August of '63. And read what he said to the 15 sanitation workers in April of '68 before he 16 was killed. There was a message there that 17 many of us today don't understand and are not 18 willing to accept what was proposed. The 19 proposals were not accepted on a lot of sides. 20 But had it not been for Dr. King's 21 march from Selma to Montgomery, I don't know 22 how many years it would have taken us to do 23 the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Civil Rights 24 Act which was enhanced by then-Senator Nolan

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 from California because President Johnson did 2 not have the votes. 3 But Dr. King looked at you very 4 emphatic, said to you what he did. And my 5 short 10 minutes with him, I'll remember he 6 said "God bless you and let's pray for a 7 successful mission." We had a successful 8 mission on the march from Selma to Montgomery. 9 And we also should note that there 10 was a very distinguished individual in that 11 front row marching. The Governor's father, 12 Basil, was one of the marchers. 13 Thank you. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 15 you, Senator Larkin. 16 Senator Adams. 17 SENATOR ADAMS: Thank you, 18 Mr. President. 19 One of the challenging things of 20 sitting on this side of the room is that 21 Senator Parker often takes my speeches. 22 I always like to go back and look 23 at what people were saying while the person 24 was alive. It's easy to retrospectively talk

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 about the greatness of someone. But what was 2 going on the month and the year before we lost 3 Dr. King? 4 You know, we need to talk about the 5 fact that when he was in Harlem, a group of 6 Harlem parishioners at a church threw eggs at 7 him when he walked out. We need to talk about 8 the various newspapers and editorial pages 9 that criticized him and stated that he was 10 trying to move the country too fast. We need 11 to talk about how he was disdained and 12 disliked. 13 We need to talk about the FBI 14 building that bears the name of one of the 15 most draconian government officials that we 16 could ever imagine, J. Edgar Hoover, and how 17 he followed Dr. King and how he sent tapes to 18 Dr. King's family, and how he attempted to 19 push Dr. King into committing suicide. 20 We need to talk about from location 21 to location that Dr. King was hated. He was 22 hated by governmental officials when he talked 23 about the Vietnam War. He was hated in the 24 local papers in the South. He was hated in

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 the North. 2 So it's nice now to reflect and 3 talk about the greatness of his dream, but the 4 reality, Dr. King lived a nightmare. He was 5 afraid. His family was under a constant 6 threat. Those of us who cherish him now may 7 have participated in branding him as being 8 someone that was tearing the country apart. 9 Our late president had a significant role in 10 stopping many of the roadblocks that he wanted 11 to do. 12 So we can reflect, but we must be 13 clear not to be revisionist. If we give a 14 correct reflection of history and what 15 Dr. King went through in his life, clearly 16 we'll know that those of us who write about us 17 now who don't have the foresight to understand 18 that marriage equality is right, who don't 19 have the foresight to understand that giving 20 all of our children an equal educational 21 opportunity is right, who don't understand 22 that we need to reignite affordable housing in 23 this state -- and we are right -- who don't 24 understand that we need to address the issue

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 that a countless number of New Yorkers across 2 the state are going through a daily ritual of 3 sitting down at their kitchen table with their 4 head in their hand, wondering how they're 5 going to move forward -- and we're fighting 6 for them; we are right. 7 So no matter what is wrote in the 8 papers, no matter how we are demonized, 9 there's something uniquely qualified about 10 what we are doing. We are King-like. We are 11 living the dream of King, not in what we say 12 but in our actions. 13 And I too want to just pause for a 14 moment. And if Dr. King was here, I believe 15 he would say "Stop looking at me as the star." 16 There were a countless number of costars who 17 participated in what he did. It was not that 18 our concern is just the man, Dr. King; it's 19 the spirit of Dr. King. That is what took 20 place. 21 And there were many people who 22 participated in the evolution of this country 23 who already went through, as he stated, the 24 morning of childhood, already went through the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 afternoon of adulthood, and they were in the 2 evening of their lives, they marched, they 3 were jailed, they were incarcerated -- but 4 they believed in Dr. King, just as the people 5 in this state believe in the things that we're 6 doing. So we need to relive the dream and 7 prevent the nightmares throughout our entire 8 state. 9 So I applaud the life of Dr. King. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 11 you, Senator Adams. 12 Senator Perkins. 13 SENATOR PERKINS: Thank you, 14 Mr. President. I'm going to be brief. 15 I guess more difficult than 16 following Kevin Parker, who plagiarizes 17 speeches, is following Senator Adams, because 18 he's always so eloquent. 19 But I just wanted to take a brief 20 moment to remember Dr. King as he was in his 21 last episode, not simply working with labor in 22 Memphis, Tennessee -- and in fact I had the 23 privilege on his birthday, the 15th, of having 24 a celebration of his relationship with labor

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 with labor leaders from throughout the city 2 and state. 3 But he was at that point involved 4 in an economic justice campaign which was not 5 only emphasized by his labor relationships but 6 also by his campaign for poor people. He was 7 organizing a march to Washington, D.C., called 8 the Poor People's Campaign, in which he was 9 organizing people from the Appalachian 10 Mountains and from the urban communities to go 11 down to Washington, D.C., and stay there until 12 an economic justice agenda was provided. 13 It reminds me to some extent of 14 what Senator Parker was alluding to when he 15 reminded us of the type of legislation that we 16 already have on the books to be voted on and 17 that would to some extent address his dream, 18 especially from the economic justice point of 19 view. 20 So I just wanted to remind us that 21 yes, he was the great civil rights leader and 22 yes, he was a great religious leader, a moral 23 leader, but he understood that the next 24 movement was the movement for economic

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 justice, especially for poor people. And so I 2 wanted to, for the record, make that point. 3 Thank you. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 5 you, Senator Perkins. 6 Are there any other Senators 7 wishing to be heard on the resolution? 8 The question, then, is on the 9 resolution. All those in favor please signify 10 by saying aye. 11 (Response of "Aye.") 12 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 13 Opposed, nay. 14 (No response.) 15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The 16 resolution is adopted. 17 Senators Sampson and Skelos have 18 indicated they would like to open up this 19 resolution for joint sponsorship. Anyone not 20 wishing to be on it please notify the desk. 21 Senator Smith. 22 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you very 23 much, Mr. President. 24 I believe there is a resolution at

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 the desk by Senator Kevin Parker. I ask that 2 that resolution be read in its entirety and, 3 at the behest of Senator Parker, move for its 4 immediate adoption. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 6 Senator Smith, has this resolution been deemed 7 privileged and submitted to the office of the 8 Temporary President? 9 SENATOR SMITH: Yes, it has, 10 Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The 12 Secretary will then read. 13 THE SECRETARY: By Senators 14 Parker, Sampson, Adams and Foley, legislative 15 resolution sending deepest condolences to the 16 people of Haiti in wake of the catastrophic 17 earthquake that hit the island on Tuesday, 18 January 12, 2010, and expressing solidarity 19 with all individuals and organizations 20 involved in the ongoing rescue and recovery 21 efforts. 22 "WHEREAS, The human toll resulting 23 from the devastating tragic events of the 7.0 24 earthquake that shook Haiti and its aftermath

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 will alter the course of the lives of 2 countless families and require the efforts and 3 support of New Yorkers, Americans, and 4 compassionate individuals throughout all 5 nations to ensure the restoration of stability 6 to all of the regions affected by the horrific 7 natural disaster; and 8 "WHEREAS, This Legislative Body is 9 sincerely moved to send the deepest heartfelt 10 condolences from the people of the State of 11 New York to the people of Haiti in wake of the 12 catastrophic earthquake that hit the island on 13 Tuesday, January 12, 2010, and to express 14 solidarity with all individuals and 15 organizations involved in the ongoing rescue 16 and recovery efforts; and 17 "WHEREAS, This devastating 18 earthquake, which gave virtually no warning, 19 has left thousands dead, nearly 3 million 20 homeless, countless orphaned, and untold 21 thousands still missing; and 22 "WHEREAS, The most powerful 23 earthquake Haiti has witnessed in over 200 24 years has damaged and destroyed government

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 headquarters, schools, medical buildings, 2 roads and bridges, requiring a widespread need 3 for food, water, supplies, tools, equipment, 4 medicine, healthcare, law enforcement 5 personnel, security services, public utility 6 services, sanitation and waste disposal, 7 removal of debris, and property restoration 8 and reconstruction; and 9 "WHEREAS, The giving nature of 10 New Yorkers and all Americans is already 11 apparent by the outpouring of sympathy and 12 contributions made on behalf of countless 13 individuals and organizations who have aided 14 in the rescue and relief efforts; and 15 "WHEREAS, There are more than 16 230,000 people of Haitian origin living in 17 New York State, including approximately 18 122,000 in New York City alone, as well as a 19 growing and dynamic Haitian-American community 20 on Long Island. The Haitian presence, 21 particularly in Brooklyn, has positively 22 impacted many neighborhoods and has led to the 23 creation of several vibrant Haitian-American 24 community institutions and organizations; and

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 "WHEREAS, This Legislative Body 2 represents a community that possesses the 3 natural inclination to come to the aid of 4 those in need, especially in times of 5 tragedies as great as this that have occurred 6 on our own soil as well as abroad; and 7 "WHEREAS, This Legislative Body 8 recognizes the magnitude of this ongoing 9 national tragedy, and with these words sends 10 the message to the people of Haiti that the 11 citizens of the great Empire State relate to 12 the suffering that others endure in times of 13 such devastation and recovery, and will remain 14 steadfast in support and compassion with them 15 for as long as it takes to reunite their 16 families, restore hope to their lives, and 17 secure their future; now, therefore, be it 18 "RESOLVED, That this Legislative 19 Body pause in its deliberations to send 20 deepest condolences to the people of Haiti in 21 wake of the catastrophic earthquake that hit 22 the island on Tuesday, January 12, 2010, and 23 expressing solidarity with all individuals and 24 organizations involved in the ongoing rescue

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 and recovery efforts." 2 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 3 Senator Parker. 4 SENATOR PARKER: Thank you, 5 Mr. President. On the resolution. 6 Approximately a week ago there was 7 a catastrophic earthquake in Haiti, as we all 8 know, that devastated the country. I happen 9 to represent, in Flatbush and East Flatbush, 10 the largest concentration of Haitians outside 11 of Haiti in the entire world. I share a large 12 Haitian population with many of my colleagues, 13 including Senator Adams, Senator Sampson, 14 Senator Hassell-Thompson, Senator Foley. I 15 know Senator Tom Morahan has a large 16 population in Spring Valley. There's a 17 significant population out in Rosedale, in 18 Queens. 19 And so, you know, when we look at 20 how important this population has been for the 21 growth of New York State and Brooklyn in 22 particular, we're in unity in terms of the 23 stress that we're feeling. 24 Never before have I, particularly

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 as an elected official, have gone through 2 something that has touched me so personally. 3 That this is in fact not something that is 4 just abstract on TV, but, you know, members of 5 my staff who are from Haiti are missing, have 6 lost family members and loved ones. You know, 7 people I've grown up with, you know, some of 8 their children who are over there, you know, 9 some were missing, some have been found. This 10 is profoundly horrific for the people of my 11 district and of course for the people who live 12 in Haiti now. 13 And so I just wanted to at this 14 moment not just to raise the issue so that we 15 all continue to think about it, but really use 16 this moment as a call to action to ask members 17 of this body on both sides of the aisle to 18 really seriously be engaged in this. 19 We frankly owe a debt to Haiti 20 because in part the earthquake that hit Haiti 21 was on top of all of the other problems that 22 Haiti had been having already with the deep 23 poverty, lack of healthcare, you know, not 24 strong architectural structures that we're now

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 finding. And that's a condition that we as 2 Americans helped to create. 3 And I know a lot of people don't 4 necessarily want to face up to that. But the 5 reality is that there were many European 6 powers that, when Haiti got to be the first 7 republic to be free in the Western Hemisphere, 8 did not see that as a good thing and in fact 9 pledged themselves to make sure that Haiti 10 would be made an example of. And so not only 11 political and economic and social exploitation 12 has been part of the process that they've gone 13 through, but it has been really a collusion 14 and a conspiracy of silence around Haiti up 15 until this point. 16 We now have an opportunity in this 17 call to action to do more. And I know that 18 people have been making monetary 19 contributions, and I want to thank people for 20 doing that. And I think there's more to be 21 done. But we really need to both call on the 22 federal government to do a few more things as 23 well as some of our corporate partners. 24 And I certainly want to give a lot

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 of credit to President Barack Obama and the 2 members of Congress, particularly from the 3 New York delegation, and most notably my 4 Congresswoman, Yvette Clarke, around calling 5 for things like the temporary protective 6 status for Haitian immigrants. The President, 7 without even prompting, stopped the 8 deportation of Haitian immigrants. There's 9 literally no more capacity for the country to 10 absorb people going back to the country, and 11 so we have to take it upon ourselves to do 12 that. 13 I've reached out to the Governor of 14 this state to make an armory available and to 15 have the New York Air National Guard be 16 available to take down supplies when the time 17 is right. And I've yet to hear from him. I'm 18 hoping that the Governor will hear my plea 19 today and make that happen for New Yorkers who 20 are looking for help from their government to 21 help their home country. And it's a small 22 price to pay. 23 And I know that we're in the middle 24 of an economic crisis in the state, but the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 people of Haiti are in the middle of a human 2 crisis, and that human crisis is right now. 3 And we can figure out a way to balance the 4 budget, and we always do. But how is Haiti 5 going to get out of this situation if we don't 6 help? The question is not what happens to our 7 budget if we help Haiti, the question is what 8 happens to Haiti if we don't help them. And 9 what happens to us as a consequence of that 10 nonaction? And so this is a call of action to 11 get them involved. 12 You know, I've worked on energy and 13 telecommunications issues, I've reached out to 14 Con Ed, I'm shortly going to reach out to 15 National Grid to send down electrical 16 engineers and technicians and equipment to 17 help Haiti get back online. 18 We've reached out to credit card 19 companies to make sure that they are not 20 charging fees to people who are making 21 contributions on their credit cards, and to 22 make sure that any fees that have been charged 23 to this point get sent to Haiti as a donation, 24 to make sure that our donations are being used

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 correctly. 2 I have to commend, on this same 3 issue, Congressman Charles Rangel, who in fact 4 has made it possible so that the contributions 5 that we're making now on behalf of Haiti can 6 in fact be deducted from the 2009 taxes. 7 We need to do all these small 8 things. I've reached out to the airlines and 9 asked them to provide low-cost flights and 10 free flights, for people who are trapped in 11 Haiti to fly back and people who need to get 12 down to check on loved ones and families as 13 well as to send down rescue workers. 14 We're going to need to reach out to 15 the world community, and particularly the 16 world financial community, like the IMF, the 17 International Monetary Fund, and the World 18 Bank. And I'm asking them to forgive Haiti's 19 loans. We can't continue to send in aid and 20 do the things that we're going to be doing 21 and, you know, Haiti has these debts in a 22 context in which we know they're going to 23 never be able to pay back. Let's forgive 24 them. Let's forgive those loans and let's

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 move towards building Haiti. 2 In that vein, again I congratulate 3 President Barack Obama and the members of 4 Congress for pledging $100 million towards 5 their rebuilding effort. That's not nearly 6 enough. I have actually written a letter to 7 the President and to the members of Congress 8 asking for a billion-dollar rebuilding program 9 to be implemented by Congress. That will just 10 be a beginning of what we need to do to turn 11 Haiti around to make sure that it can be a 12 sustainable country again with its own 13 government. 14 And so, you know, how can we in 15 fact talk about sending them and working with 16 them around a billion dollars if they in fact 17 have these astronomical loans that they have 18 to pay back? So, you know, these things kind 19 of work hand in glove. 20 There's so much more that we can do 21 both as a state and as a national government. 22 And so, again, my call to action today is to 23 ask my colleagues here on the floor to be 24 involved in this process, to reach out to me

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 and to other members who are interested in 2 helping to rebuild Haiti and making sure that 3 our constituents here of Haitian descent, make 4 sure that they're secure and that their loved 5 ones are okay. 6 And so as we deal with this crisis, 7 we use it as an opportunity, both to express 8 our humanity and to work alongside of our 9 constituencies and their families and loved 10 ones back home, but also to right past 11 injustices that were done to Haiti and go 12 forward with a renewed spirit of cooperation 13 and partnership to make sure that this world 14 is the kind of world that we all want to live 15 in. And that is one where there isn't any 16 kind of economic and political oppression and 17 where we aren't creating economic blockades 18 around countries and we aren't, you know, 19 ignoring the cries of one of the poorest 20 countries in the Western Hemisphere. 21 And so I look forward to our 22 continued work together, because Haiti has hit 23 rock bottom. And for all of us, there is no 24 place to go but up.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 2 you, Senator Parker. 3 Senator Foley. 4 SENATOR FOLEY: Thank you, 5 Mr. President. 6 I'd like to take this opportunity 7 to express our solidarity with the people of 8 Haiti and with our great Haitian-American 9 community during this tragic time. We've 10 learned over the past week this is the worst 11 earthquake to hit Haiti in over 200 years, 12 leaving millions homeless and tens of 13 thousands who have died. 14 Shortly after the earthquake, which 15 was 7.0 on the Richter scale, people across 16 the great State of New York began efforts to 17 help those in desperate need. From 18 fund-raising drives to calls to gather crucial 19 supplies, New Yorkers began to pitch in at a 20 very speedy pace. 21 In my own district on Long Island, 22 we've seen unprecedented efforts to help 23 victims of the Haitian earthquake. And while 24 we're grateful to those who have rolled up

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 their sleeves and donated their time, money 2 and energy to the cause, I wanted to take a 3 moment to particularly thank the 4 Haitian-American community on Long Island. 5 And in my own district, which is 6 one of the more diverse districts in our 7 state, we have seen a vibrant Haitian-American 8 community coming together. And I want to 9 especially thank a not-for-profit 10 organization, Haitian-Americans United for 11 Change, which has been working tirelessly to 12 help victims of the earthquake. 13 So the Haitian-Americans United for 14 Change and all others who are volunteering and 15 making whatever contributions possible are 16 some of the real heroes who deserve our 17 eternal gratitude. 18 So as we proceed today, 19 Mr. President, with our business in the 20 Senate, rest assured that New York stands with 21 the Haitian-American community and with our 22 friends who are suffering today in Haiti. 23 Thank you, Mr. President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 you, Senator Foley. 2 Senator Hassell-Thompson. 3 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank 4 you, Mr. President. 5 I rise to add my condolence to that 6 of the members in this chamber for the 7 catastrophe that has happened in Haiti and, as 8 we have heard, continues with this latest 9 earthquake that has rocked that island. 10 Let me say first that New Yorkers 11 and people across the world have responded 12 very quickly. And it is very important that 13 we continue our efforts. We can talk and 14 there's a lot to be said about the 15 relationship that we have had with Haiti, but 16 that's a subject for another day. Today is 17 about the deepest condolences for those 18 families who continue to have missing 19 relatives that they cannot find, for family 20 members that they know who are lost to them 21 forever. 22 I had the opportunity to realize, 23 during this catastrophe, the size and the 24 growing size of Haitian members that live in

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 my communities. And I visited an all-Haitian 2 church where they speak only Creole and had 3 the pastor, the celebrant of that Episcopal 4 church translate my message into Creole. And 5 to have those people come and embrace me not 6 because I had done anything, but just because 7 I cared. And I think that that's what people 8 want more than anything for us to acknowledge, 9 that we care about human suffering. 10 And so that as we put information 11 on our websites and as we go forth and try to 12 do that which is appropriate, I thank this 13 body for the moments that we have taken today 14 in this session to thank those who have opened 15 their hearts and their pocketbooks, but more 16 for those who have yet to do so and know that 17 it is no robbery to share that which they 18 have. 19 Thank you, Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 21 you, Senator Hassell-Thompson. 22 Senator Diaz. 23 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, 24 Mr. Chairman.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 We in the Hispanic community have 2 seen, Mr. Chairman, many destruction, many 3 incidents of catastrophic magnitude: Puerto 4 Rico, Santo Domingo, Mexico, Cuba, Honduras, 5 Columbia, Nicaragua, you name it. We have 6 seen big things happen. But like this thing 7 that happened in Haiti, nothing is equal to 8 that. This has been so far the biggest thing 9 that we have seen. And they said about 10 200,000 lives have been lost, more than a 11 million people have been affected -- children 12 have been left orphaned. So it is a big 13 problem that we are facing in Haiti. 14 But nonetheless, it is so 15 magnificent, Mr. President and ladies and 16 gentlemen, it is so great, the response of the 17 people of the State of New York and the City 18 of New York. 19 The district that I represent, the 20 32nd Senatorial District, there are poor 21 people there, people unemployed. They have 22 senior citizens, they don't have that much 23 money. But Saturday, this past Saturday, we 24 did a street marathon on Southern Boulevard in

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 the Bronx, together with the office of the 2 Bronx Borough President, Ruben Diaz, Jr., and 3 the office of the Assemblyman Marcos Crespo, 4 the New York Hispanic Clergy Organization, 5 Radio Vision Cristiana Internacional, and the 6 cooperation of the New York City Police 7 Department under the direction of the Bronx 8 Borough Commander, Chief Purtell. 9 You have to see the outpouring of 10 people going there. On that day, five hours, 11 between the hours of 12:00 to 5:00, we placed 12 there two containers, 40-foot containers. 13 They got filled up, and they were shipped to 14 Santo Domingo so they will be taken to Haiti. 15 And we raised more than $50,000 that day 16 there. 17 It was so great that even the 18 Governor, I have to thank the Governor of the 19 State of New York, David Paterson, he showed 20 up there. And he showed his concern by 21 appearing in that street marathon and 22 contributing, with a thousand dollars, to that 23 marathon in the Bronx this past Saturday. 24 So we all could do something

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 to help. No matter what we do, we 2 wouldn't be able to help the whole 3 situation. But that should not stop us 4 from saying we've got to do something. 5 My staff, the staff of my Senatorial -- 6 my district staff, you've got to see 7 people coming out. 8 And I thank the people of the 9 Bronx, and I thank this institution, the 10 office of the Bronx Borough President, the 11 New York Hispanic Clergy Organization, 12 Assemblyman Marcos Crespo, the New York City 13 Police Department, Radio Vision Cristiana 14 Internacional and the Governor of the State of 15 New York, David Paterson, for showing there, 16 for helping us, and for showing that they 17 care. 18 And today I appreciate that Senator 19 Parker is introducing this resolution. 20 Because this is a time for unity, this is a 21 time for concern, a time to do something. 22 And I have also to recognize that 23 the office of Senator John Sampson gave me a 24 big hand in coordinating this activity on

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Saturday. So also to Senator Sampson I have 2 to appreciate, to express my appreciation for 3 all the help that they did Saturday in the 4 Bronx. 5 Thank you. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 7 you, Senator Diaz. 8 Senator Craig Johnson. 9 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 10 you, Mr. President. 11 I also rise to echo my colleagues' 12 sentiments and statements about supporting the 13 efforts not just today to help the victims of 14 this terrible tragedy and disaster, but also 15 to ensure that as the days and weeks and 16 months go on, we continue those efforts. 17 Because it's not -- right now we're 18 still, incredibly, in the rescue phase. Every 19 day, it seems, there's incredible story of 20 survival that comes out of either 21 Port-au-Prince or the areas surrounding the 22 capital. Just last night two young children 23 were pulled out of the wreckage. So hope 24 continues to live on that we can find more

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 survivors. 2 But when those rescue phases turn 3 to recovery phases, we need to make sure that 4 our aid -- whether it's a simple charitable 5 donation to your local Red Cross, whether it's 6 a state initiative, whether it's a national 7 initiative, we need to help the residents of 8 this island nation, an island nation that even 9 before this earthquake was on the brink. 10 A number of us, many of us here, 11 maybe all of us in this great chamber have 12 constituents who are either from or have 13 relatives who are Haitian, who live in Haiti. 14 Long Island is seeing its growing immigrant 15 population comes from the island of Haiti. In 16 my district, in areas like Westbury and 17 Elmont, the Haitian community is a strong, 18 vibrant community that contributes so much to 19 the work and the play of Nassau County. 20 But as a result, this tragedy has 21 truly struck home. And so my thoughts today 22 are with Lionel Sannon, a gentleman who lives 23 in Westbury who lost over 20 relatives in this 24 earthquake. His wife happened to luckily

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 survive the earthquake and is now in the 2 islands of the Bahamas, but we need to help 3 bring her back and bring her back to Nassau 4 County. It is vital that she comes back and 5 receives medical care close to home so this 6 family can start to heal. 7 And so as we move forward, as we do 8 these food drives, as we do these financial 9 drives today, we need keep doing them beyond 10 today. Because sometimes that happens. 11 Sometimes, when the news cameras get shut off 12 and the reporters come home, tragedy lives on. 13 And tragedy will live on in Haiti and those 14 Haitians who live in our neighborhoods. 15 And so I hope that in the coming 16 months we can continue to work together to 17 provide the necessary resources to help this 18 island recover and help its citizens, who are 19 now our citizens, heal. 20 Thank you very much. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 22 you, Senator Johnson. 23 Senator Stewart-Cousins. 24 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: Thank

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 you, Mr. President. 2 I also rise to give my condolences 3 and talk about so much of what has happened, 4 and certainly in conjunction with Dr. King and 5 how his inspiration allows us a vision that 6 goes far beyond what it is that happens in our 7 lives. 8 What happened in Haiti is so much 9 intertwined with what we have celebrated and 10 what we continue to celebrate as humanity. 11 When I listen to Dr. King's whole "Dream" 12 speech, he talked about, at that time, Negroes 13 on the island of poverty. And when you look 14 at Haiti and you see the impoverished nation 15 that we are all gazing upon, we realize how 16 much work we have to do. 17 And so it is important that we 18 realize that in fulfilling Dr. King's dream, 19 we are able to look at nations and people and 20 understand that our work will never be done 21 until that level of poverty is eradicated. 22 I also rose to talk about a pastor 23 from my district -- Hawthorne, New York -- who 24 lost his life in Haiti. He was trapped for

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 55 hours under the rubble of a fallen hotel. 2 They got him back to Florida only for him to 3 die. His name was Reverend Clinton Rabb. 4 And I raise his name so that we can 5 understand that the Clinton Rabbs of the 6 world, the Reverend Clinton Rabbs of the 7 world, were in Haiti doing work in that 8 country to uplift that nation to do things 9 that we never thought about doing until now. 10 And so we must understand that we 11 have a bigger mission, a bigger vision, a 12 bigger responsibility. And as we work to 13 rescue the people and rescue what we can and 14 rebuild, we have to do it on a daily basis 15 from our seats here, from our communities and 16 throughout the nation. It is a fitting 17 tribute. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 19 you, Senator Stewart-Cousins. 20 Are there any other Senators 21 wishing to be heard on this resolution? 22 The question is then on the 23 resolution. All those in favor please signify 24 by saying aye.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 (Response of "Aye.") 2 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 3 Opposed, nay. 4 (No response.) 5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The 6 resolution is adopted. 7 Senator Parker has indicated that 8 the resolution is open to all members. Anyone 9 wishing not to be on the resolution please 10 notify the desk. 11 Senator Smith. 12 SENATOR SMITH: Thank you very 13 much, Mr. President. 14 At this time may we please adopt 15 the Resolution Calendar in its entirety. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: All 17 those in favor of adopting the Resolution 18 Calendar please signify by saying aye. 19 (Response of "Aye.") 20 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 21 Opposed, nay. 22 (No response.) 23 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The 24 Resolution Calendar is adopted.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Senator Smith. 2 SENATOR SMITH: Mr. President, 3 there will be an immediate meeting of the 4 Finance Committee in Room 332, followed by an 5 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee. 6 Pending the return of the Rules 7 Committee, may we please stand at ease. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The 9 Senate will stand at ease pending the return 10 of the Finance Committee and the Rules 11 Committee. 12 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 13 ease at 1:11 p.m.) 14 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened 15 at 1:47 p.m.) 16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 17 Senator Klein. 18 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, I 19 just want to alert the members that there will 20 be an immediate Labor Committee meeting in 21 Room 332. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: There 23 will be an immediate meeting of the Labor 24 Committee in Room 332.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 The Senate remains at ease. 2 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 3 ease at 1:48 p.m.) 4 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened 5 at 2:06 p.m.) 6 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 7 Senator Klein. 8 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, I 9 believe there's a report of the Rules 10 Committee at the desk. 11 I move that we adopt the report of 12 the Rules Committee at this time. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The 14 Secretary will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith, 16 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 17 following bills: 18 Senate Print 6439, by Senator 19 Squadron, an act to amend the Public Officers 20 Law; 21 And Senate Print 6457, by Senator 22 Schneiderman, an act to amend the Executive 23 Law. 24 Both bills ordered direct to third

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 reading. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: All 3 those in favor of accepting the report of the 4 Rules Committee please signify by saying aye. 5 (Response of "Aye.") 6 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 7 Opposed, nay. 8 (No response.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The 10 report of the Rules Committee is adopted. 11 Senator Klein. 12 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, at 13 this time could we please move to a reading of 14 the calendar. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The 16 Secretary will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 18 4, by Senator Klein, Senate Print 1904A, an 19 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to 20 maximum age. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 24 act shall take effect immediately.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 5 Announce the results. 6 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The 8 bill is passed. 9 Senator Klein. 10 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, at 11 this time could we please move to a reading of 12 the supplemental calendar. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The 14 Secretary will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 16 17, by Senator Squadron, Senate Print 6439, an 17 act to amend the Public Officers Law. 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay it aside. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The 20 bill is laid aside. 21 The Secretary will continue to 22 read. 23 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 24 Calendar Number 18, Senator Schneiderman moves

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules, 2 Assembly Bill Number 9544 and substitute it 3 for the identical Senate Bill Number 6457, 4 Third Reading Calendar 18. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 6 Substitution ordered. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 18, by Member of the Assembly Silver, Assembly 9 Print Number 9544, an act to amend the 10 Executive Law. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Read 12 the last section. 13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay it aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The 15 bill is laid aside. 16 Senator Klein, that completes the 17 reading of the noncontroversial calendar. 18 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, at 19 this time can we please move to the reading of 20 the controversial supplemental calendar. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: If the 22 Secretary would please ring the bell, members 23 are asked to come to the chamber for the 24 controversial reading of the calendar.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 The Secretary will read. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 17, by Senator Squadron, Senate Print 6439, an 4 act to amend the Public -- 5 SENATOR LIBOUS: Explanation, 6 please. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 8 Senator Squadron, an explanation has been 9 requested. 10 SENATOR SQUADRON: Thank you, 11 Mr. President. 12 This bill is meant to clarify some 13 gaps in state law. It would create a clear 14 standard on activity that is undeniably wrong. 15 I think all of us in the chamber would know 16 what's wrong and should unquestionably be 17 prohibited. Unfortunately, under current law, 18 it's not, in a clear way. 19 What that bill does is it says you 20 can't use your government resources for 21 outside compensated business activities. It's 22 pretty clear. It says it in a couple of ways. 23 It clarifies the Code of Ethics, 24 which currently has an unwarranted privileges

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 reference. And instead of just leaving it at 2 that, it makes it very clear you can't use 3 your government resources for outside 4 compensated business under the Code of Ethics. 5 In addition, in the Penal Law it 6 makes clear that an ongoing scheme -- it 7 actually makes it an ongoing scheme to defraud 8 the government. Using your government 9 resources for outside business in a value 10 greater than $1,000 would be a violation under 11 the Penal Law. 12 Both of these provisions, both the 13 unwarranted privileges under the Code of 14 Ethics and the standard of defrauding the 15 government under the Penal Law, have been used 16 in Albany in recent times or referenced. 17 And they've also, as we all know, 18 sometimes not been used. And we know that 19 some recent cases have not happened in state 20 court at all, have not happened under the 21 Legislative Ethics Commission at all. There's 22 a gap in state law when it comes to being 23 clear on this behavior that we all know 24 shouldn't happen, we all know in our bones

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 should be prohibited. 2 The bill's intent is really not 3 controversial. Its provisions are not 4 surprising. It is a little bit shocking that 5 the provisions don't currently exist in state 6 law. And it's a little bit shocking that this 7 gap in state law has been exploited in the 8 ways that it has. 9 You know, I'm sure there will be 10 some questions on this bill and on the next 11 bill that we're going to discuss. And I thank 12 Senator Sampson and Senator Schneiderman and 13 Senator Krueger and a lot of others who have 14 worked on these issues for a long time. 15 And as we begin this debate, I'm 16 reminded that in Albany everyone is in favor 17 of ethics enforcement so long as there are no 18 laws to enforce ethics. I think that's how we 19 got this gap in state law. And I think that 20 by passing this bill and hopefully the next 21 bill, we'll go a long way in filling that gap. 22 Thank you, Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 24 Senator DeFrancisco.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, would 2 the Senator yield to a couple of questions? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 4 Senator Squadron, will you yield for a couple 5 of questions? 6 SENATOR SQUADRON: Sure. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 8 Senator DeFrancisco, you may proceed. 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: You had 10 indicated that it's shocking that this type of 11 conduct is not already prohibited under the 12 law. Have there been any cases attempting to 13 prosecute somebody under this law as it now 14 exists for the circumstances that you're 15 trying to clarify? 16 SENATOR SQUADRON: Through you, 17 Mr. President, to be clear, it is not 18 explicitly prohibited under state law. 19 I would make the argument that the 20 "unwarranted privileges" phrase in the Code of 21 Ethics and the defrauding-the-government 22 component of the Penal Law both potentially 23 could be used. 24 I also, I think, would point to the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 fact that we've had some recent cases in the 2 federal courts, not in the state courts or 3 under the Legislative Ethics Commission. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 5 Senator DeFrancisco. 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would he 7 yield to the question again. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 9 Senator Squadron, will you continue to yield 10 to Senator DeFrancisco? 11 SENATOR SQUADRON: I'd be happy 12 to. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 14 Senator DeFrancisco. 15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: The 16 question was, simply, have there been 17 instances where this type of conduct has been 18 attempted to be prosecuted under the existing 19 statute that for some reason was unsuccessful 20 and therefore the statute needs to be 21 clarified? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 23 Senator Squadron. 24 SENATOR SQUADRON: Through you,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Mr. President, if Senator DeFrancisco is 2 thinking of a specific case, I would be happy 3 to discuss it. 4 I know there have been some cases 5 in which this has been referenced by the 6 Inspector General and others. But if there's 7 a specific case that he's interested in, I'd 8 be happy to discuss it. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 10 Senator DeFrancisco. 11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I'll just 12 make a point and I'll have another question. 13 I'm not looking for any specific 14 case. I'm asking if the sponsor, who believes 15 that this language is necessary to form some 16 kind of clarification, I'm just asking whether 17 or not he knows of any case where there was a 18 difficulty in prosecuting the conduct that he 19 wants to prosecute -- or to clarify it in the 20 statute, whether there's been any difficulty 21 of any case that he knows of. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 23 Senator Squadron. 24 SENATOR SQUADRON: Just

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 confirming. And, you know, I think that what 2 you see is as we're coming and there's no 3 obvious answer to what the Senator is asking, 4 is that we don't have clarity in the law. And 5 we have, as I have said, seen cases where this 6 has clearly happened and clearly not been 7 prosecuted under state law nor pursued under 8 the Code of Ethics. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 10 Senator DeFrancisco. 11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: You had 12 indicated -- excuse me. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 14 Through the chair. 15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would the 16 Senator yield to another question? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Do you 18 yield, Senator Squadron? 19 SENATOR SQUADRON: Sure thing. 20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: The 21 language that's in the bill talks about 22 unwarranted privileges being taken by someone. 23 What's the definition of warranted? Is there 24 a definition under the statute, so that

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 anybody that might be faced with questions 2 under this statute could at least explain -- 3 or at least know what is warranted and what's 4 not? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 6 Senator Squadron. 7 SENATOR SQUADRON: Well, I'd like 8 to thank Senator DeFrancisco, actually, for 9 making that point. Although I'd like to 10 clarify something. 11 Unwarranted privileges is actually 12 in the law currently. It's not modified by 13 this bill. Although I do, as I say, want to 14 thank Senator DeFrancisco for pointing out 15 that as currently written that language I 16 don't think has the clarity that we will have 17 once we pass this -- hopefully pass this bill 18 into law. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 20 Senator DeFrancisco. 21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would the 22 Senator continue to yield? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 24 Senator Squadron, would you continue to yield

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 for another question by Senator DeFrancisco? 2 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: The statute 4 apparently prohibits someone securing 5 unwarranted privileges, including but not 6 limited to misappropriation to himself, 7 herself, or others of property, services or 8 other resources for private business or other 9 compensated nongovernmental processes. 10 Does this statute prohibit the 11 unwarranted privileges being accepted for 12 personal use? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 14 Senator Squadron. 15 SENATOR SQUADRON: This statute 16 as written -- and again, I know Senator 17 DeFrancisco read the language. I will read a 18 smaller section of the language for clarity: 19 "for private business or other compensated 20 nongovernmental purposes." I think that's 21 clear. 22 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: All right. 23 So would he yield to another question? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Senator Squadron, would you continue to yield 2 for another question? 3 SENATOR SQUADRON: I will. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 5 Senator Squadron will yield. You may proceed. 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: There's 7 nothing in this statute as you've modified it 8 that would prohibit someone from taking 9 unwarranted privileges for personal use as 10 opposed to business or compensating uses. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 12 Senator Squadron. 13 SENATOR SQUADRON: To be clear, 14 Senator DeFrancisco asked that question quite 15 specifically. As modified, I agree that this 16 statute would not change the definition of 17 unwarranted privileges as applies to other 18 uses. 19 It's also, I think, quite clear 20 that this is not limiting language, it is 21 clarifying language. And so, as written, it 22 would not modify the definition of unwarranted 23 privileges other than in the way that it does, 24 which is with this clarification.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 2 Senator DeFrancisco. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would the 4 Senator continue to yield? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 6 Senator Squadron, will you continue to yield? 7 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 9 Senator DeFrancisco. 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: So, Senator 11 Squadron, are you saying that the existing 12 statute before this amendment would prohibit 13 someone from obtaining unwarranted privileges 14 for personal use, under the language as it 15 currently exists? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 17 Senator Squadron. 18 SENATOR SQUADRON: Through you, 19 Mr. President, as you may know, I'm relatively 20 new here still, although it feels less new 21 every day. And this unwarranted-privileges 22 statute was passed into law before I was here. 23 I am not an attorney. In terms of discussing 24 the existing law that's not being modified, I

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 certainly wouldn't put myself forward as the 2 authority. 3 As a Senator in this body that is 4 certainly modifying law around that language, 5 I think that it's pretty clear from the 6 existing law that all unwarranted privileges 7 for himself, herself, or others are prohibited 8 under this statute. 9 I also, though, would point out 10 that it has been difficult to prosecute or in 11 this case to follow up on violations of the 12 statute as currently written. And again, this 13 clarification would do it. 14 I think that, again, the cases that 15 you see -- including Senator Bruno and 16 others -- that are not pursued under state law 17 and are in fact pursued in federal court would 18 call out loudly for this clarification. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 20 Senator DeFrancisco. 21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would the 22 Senator yield to one additional question. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 24 Senator Squadron, would you yield for one last

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 question? 2 SENATOR SQUADRON: One or more. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: One or 4 more? Okay, thank you. 5 Senator, with respect to 6 Section A(ii), this is a new section that 7 prohibits someone from defrauding the state by 8 making use of property, et cetera, et cetera. 9 Correct? 10 SENATOR SQUADRON: That is 11 correct. 12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would he 13 answer one other -- 14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 15 Senator Squadron -- 16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: -- one 17 other question, please. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 19 Senator Squadron, would you yield for one more 20 last question? 21 SENATOR SQUADRON: Sure. That 22 may be a statement that needs clarification, 23 so of course I'd be happy to. 24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Squadron, isn't there existing laws 2 prohibiting anyone from defrauding the 3 government or to committing fraud by use of a 4 position? 5 In other words, do you need another 6 statute saying the same thing as existing law? 7 Fraud is illegal, isn't it, presently? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 9 Senator Squadron. 10 SENATOR SQUADRON: Through you, 11 Mr. President, I do hope this is the final 12 question, if only because I think it's a full 13 circle and really defines the need for this 14 law. 15 Yes, I do believe, just as I do 16 under unwarranted privileges -- and I don't 17 just believe it, it's a matter of undeniable 18 fact that defrauding the government is a 19 crime. 20 I think it's also a matter of 21 undeniable fact that you have seen this 22 activity repeatedly not be pursued under state 23 law. And that comes, in my view, from any 24 number of issues. I think that the bill we're

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 about to debate will hopefully help with some 2 of them. 3 But this law will fill that gap in 4 state law that I think has too often led to a 5 lack of clarity where, with behavior like 6 this -- and it's possible that Senator 7 DeFrancisco and others disagree with me. My 8 view is that with behavior like this, you 9 should be as clear as possible. I think 10 that's better for us as public officers. I 11 think that's better for the state in terms of 12 being able to ensure integrity among its 13 public officers. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 15 Senator DeFrancisco. 16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: On the 17 bill. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 19 Senator DeFrancisco on the bill. 20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: With 21 respect to this bill, it seems to me it's a 22 bill that may be good political fodder, but it 23 really is not necessary. 24 If the existing law is that you

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 can't take unwarranted privileges for personal 2 use, then certainly the law would also 3 prohibit not taking unwarranted privileges for 4 purposes of your business or for compensation. 5 I mean, it just follows logically. 6 The fact that some one prosecutor 7 chooses not to prosecute, for whatever reason, 8 in state court under this provision or another 9 provision doesn't change the fact that the law 10 already prohibits this type of conduct. 11 Similarly, fraud is fraud is fraud 12 is fraud. And to say that you're going to 13 prohibit someone from defrauding the 14 government, well, it's already a statute and 15 it's already a statute that could be 16 prosecuted. The fact that someone chooses not 17 to, the prosecutor chooses not to, that's 18 fine. 19 So the point I would like to make, 20 in this day and age of reform and trying to 21 make certain that we make sure that everybody 22 who's in public office is under the utmost 23 possible scrutiny for any possible reason, 24 even though there's existing laws that already

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 prohibit that -- well, this may make good 2 political sense, but as a practical matter I 3 think it's superfluous, it's not needed, and 4 that is the point I would like to make. 5 Thank you. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 7 you, Senator DeFrancisco. 8 Senator Saland. 9 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 10 Mr. President. Would the sponsor yield? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 12 Senator Squadron, do you yield for a question 13 from Senator Saland? 14 SENATOR SQUADRON: I will. 15 SENATOR SALAND: Senator 16 Squadron, if I understood you correctly, the 17 language which you have added in lines 7 18 through 10 is intended to, in effect, flesh 19 out or make more understandable what 20 constitutes an unwarranted privilege under the 21 existing law. Is that -- 22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 23 Senator Squadron. 24 SENATOR SQUADRON: I'd say that

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 lines 7 through 10 clarify one sort of 2 unwarranted privilege that is particularly 3 glaring and has, shockingly, not been pursued 4 even when taken. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 6 Senator Saland. 7 SENATOR SALAND: If Senator 8 Squadron were to continue to yield. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Will 10 you continue to yield, Senator Squadron? 11 SENATOR SQUADRON: Of course. 12 SENATOR SALAND: You make 13 reference to property, services, and other 14 resources. I know what property is. I know 15 what services are. I'm not quite sure what 16 other resources are. What is it that you 17 intend to be covered by "other resources"? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 19 Senator Squadron. 20 SENATOR SQUADRON: Well, I think 21 "other resources" would be government 22 resources that are neither property nor 23 services. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Senator Saland. 2 SENATOR SALAND: If you'd 3 continue to yield, would you care to give me a 4 couple of examples of what might be those 5 other resources? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Will 7 you continue to yield, Senator Squadron? 8 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes. Yes, I 9 will. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You 11 may proceed, Senator Saland. 12 SENATOR SALAND: Might you 13 provide me with a couple of examples of those 14 other governmental -- 15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 16 Senator Squadron. 17 SENATOR SQUADRON: I'd be happy 18 to describe that value of the part of the law, 19 which is, to be quite serious, a clear and 20 blanket prohibition on government resources. 21 As Senator Saland points out, we 22 know what property is, we know what services 23 is. Certainly without trying to come up out 24 of thin air right now with an example of an

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 additional government resource, I would say 2 that the reason for that language is to ensure 3 that neither property nor services are read 4 through a pinhole. 5 SENATOR SALAND: I'm sorry, I 6 didn't hear the conclusion of the Senator's 7 comment. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 9 Senator Squadron, Senator Saland has indicated 10 he did not hear the last part of your answer. 11 SENATOR SQUADRON: That language 12 is there to ensure that neither property nor 13 services are read through a pinhole, to make 14 clear this is a broad prohibition on the use 15 of government resources of all forms. 16 SENATOR SALAND: Would the 17 Senator continue to yield? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Do you 19 continue to yield, Senator Squadron? 20 SENATOR SQUADRON: I'd be happy 21 to. 22 SENATOR SALAND: Would other 23 resources also constitute communications 24 seeking outcomes with government agencies?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 2 Senator Squadron. 3 SENATOR SQUADRON: I think it 4 would depend what resources were used in those 5 communications. I don't think that on its 6 face, in all cases, the example described 7 would be prohibited. 8 SENATOR SALAND: If the Senator 9 would continue to yield. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 11 Senator Squadron, will you continue to yield? 12 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes. 13 SENATOR SALAND: Senator 14 Squadron, as you know, we all from time to 15 time are called upon to communicate with a 16 variety of government agencies. We do that in 17 our official capacity as a state legislator. 18 Some of us have occupations or are 19 involved in activities that are other than the 20 one we serve in as we function here as a 21 legislator. And if we contact a state agency, 22 say for example I -- and I happen to be a 23 lawyer -- I contact a state agency on behalf 24 of a former client or I'm a businessperson, I

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 contact that state agency on behalf of a 2 former business associate, seeking either to 3 set up a meeting between that individual and 4 that particular agency, does that constitute 5 an unwarranted privilege whereby I'm seeking 6 to somehow or other gain by reason of my 7 office? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 9 Senator Squadron. 10 SENATOR SQUADRON: I'd like to 11 say that I'm reluctant to define here today 12 the entire meaning of unwarranted privileges 13 as it's existed since passed into law. I 14 certainly don't have its legislative history. 15 I do not have a canonical record in front of 16 me of its definition. 17 I would say, however, in the 18 example you cited, you suggested former. So 19 it could be that pointing you to line 9 and 20 10, the reference to private business or other 21 compensated nongovernmental purpose, might 22 lend some guidance there in terms of the new 23 language. 24 In terms of the definition of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 unwarranted privileges as it exists and has 2 existed, I'm going to have to leave that to a 3 different day. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 5 Senator Saland. 6 SENATOR SALAND: Well, that -- 7 I'm sorry, did you say you have to leave that 8 to another day? Is that what you said? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 10 Senator Squadron, do you continue to yield for 11 the additional question? 12 SENATOR SQUADRON: I will. 13 And what I said was, as I said to 14 Senator DeFrancisco, rather than look at this 15 bill as creating a new limit on the definition 16 of unwarranted privileges, I think that you 17 should see this bill as a clarification of one 18 of unwarranted privileges' meanings. 19 And so what I feel that we should 20 focus on and talk about today is that new 21 specific reference to unwarranted privileges, 22 rather than try to define out all others that 23 aren't necessarily discussed in the new 24 language in this bill.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 2 Senator Saland. 3 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 4 Mr. President. I would respectfully beg to 5 differ with Senator Squadron, because I think 6 it's critically important to -- 7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 8 Senator Saland, do you have a question for 9 Senator Squadron? 10 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, I do have a 11 question for Senator Squadron. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Then, 13 Senator Squadron, do you continue to yield? 14 SENATOR SQUADRON: I will. 15 SENATOR SALAND: Your language 16 talks in terms of both private business and 17 other compensated nongovernmental purposes. 18 And that's repeated in the next section, which 19 is on the following page. 20 I'll come back to what I asked 21 previously. You have stated that it's your 22 intention to provide some clarification to the 23 section of existing law dealing with 24 unwarranted privileges. In order to do that,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 you had to have some sense of what constituted 2 an unwarranted privilege. 3 There's nobody in this chamber -- 4 no man, no woman, no member of this chamber -- 5 who does not deal with state agencies. You 6 deal with them in a multitude of capacities. 7 And some of the people in this chamber wear 8 more than one hat in their lives. 9 And when you make a call to a state 10 agency for some purpose -- and that purpose 11 may well constitute private business; you're 12 doing it in your official capacity, it 13 involves the private business of the person 14 for whom you are making the phone call -- are 15 you, by reason of your office, seeking an 16 unwarranted privilege? Particularly if you at 17 one time or another had a relationship with 18 that person in your business or professional 19 life or have a relationship with that person 20 in your existing business or professional 21 life. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 23 Senator Squadron. 24 SENATOR SQUADRON: I'd like to be

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 clear about two things. Through you, of 2 course. 3 The first is my reluctance is on 4 limiting the definition of unwarranted 5 privileges, not in discussing its effect. I 6 think we actually have had some discussion 7 today of the effect of unwarranted privileges. 8 And you see my reluctance whenever there's 9 sort of an attempt to limit what it might not 10 include -- or to get a definitive statement 11 from me of what it absolutely does include. I 12 don't think that's what we're talking about 13 today. 14 I think what we're talking about is 15 what it would include if this law passes. And 16 hopefully we all agree that including what 17 would be added would be a good thing. 18 I would also, though, to the point 19 Senator Saland was making, point to the 20 misappropriation of such government resources 21 and would say that while I certainly don't 22 know the specifics of Senator Saland's 23 hypothetical, I think that the simple fact of 24 calling a state agency, even in one's outside

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 business dealings, would not necessarily 2 constitute a misappropriation. And I would 3 ask each public officer to, in each case, 4 ensure they are not misappropriating 5 government resources when they're using them. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 7 Senator Saland. 8 SENATOR SALAND: On the bill, 9 Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 11 Senator Saland on the bill. 12 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, I 13 came here assuming that this was a bill that 14 could be readily explained. I came here, 15 concerned, as one of 62 members of this house 16 and one who full well appreciates the 17 sensitivity at times of issues that we are 18 involved in because a number of us wear two 19 hats. 20 I have found no comfort whatsoever 21 in the responses that have been provided by 22 Senator Squadron. His intent certainly is 23 noble. I would hope that he might go back to 24 the drawing board and come up with something

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 that really responds to the questions that 2 I've asked. 3 How many times a week do the 4 members of this chamber call or ask a member 5 of their staff to call an agency? And 6 particularly for those of us who wear more 7 than one hat, are we somehow or other 8 misappropriating our office or taking 9 advantage of our office under this language 10 that has been proposed by Senator Squadron? 11 I'm not sure I heard an answer that told me 12 that that's okay. 13 So if, for example, those of us who 14 do practice law, those of us who might be 15 insurance agents, those of us who might have 16 some other activity, you may be severely 17 circumscribed in what you're permitted to do 18 and not be able to fully represent the people 19 in your district who come to you with any 20 number of constituent issues that you 21 routinely go to an agency to deal with. 22 That's a very, very frightening thought. 23 Now, politically, this is a bill 24 that the last thing you want to do is have to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 explain why you would vote no. But the bottom 2 line is that this is a bill that is sorely 3 lacking and puts at risk virtually anybody, as 4 I said earlier, who does not exclusively serve 5 as a legislator -- and may put at risk some 6 who do exclusively serve as a legislator. 7 So I would only hope that when the 8 day is done -- I know there's no same-as 9 currently -- that we get to see a bill that 10 deals with the problem that Senator Squadron 11 would like to deal with but deals with it in a 12 fashion that doesn't put at risk the public 13 service of any number if not the majority of 14 people in this chamber. 15 Thank you, Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 17 you, Senator Saland. 18 Are there any other Senators 19 wishing to be heard? 20 Senator Diaz. 21 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, 22 Mr. President. Would Senator Squadron yield 23 for a question or two, please. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Senator Squadron, will you yield to Senator 2 Diaz for a question? 3 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes, I would. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 5 Senator Diaz, you may proceed. 6 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, Senator 7 Squadron. 8 I'm reading the bill and it says no 9 officer or employee of a state agency, member 10 of the Legislature, or legislative employee 11 should use or attempt to use his or her 12 official position to secure unwarranted 13 privilege. 14 Let me play Columbo here. I know 15 you already said something, but would you 16 please tell me again what is unwarranted 17 privilege? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 19 Senator Squadron. 20 SENATOR SQUADRON: The lines of 21 the bill that Senator Diaz read there, just to 22 point out, are not new language. That's the 23 existing law that was written. The phrase 24 "unwarranted privileges" does not start with

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 this bill. It won't be passed into law if 2 this bill is. There is, in fact, a same-as, 3 so I'm very hopeful it will be passed into 4 law. 5 But "unwarranted privileges" has to 6 this point, as I understand it, been 7 interpreted by the Inspector General and 8 others to mean inappropriately using one's 9 position or government resources for something 10 other than their appropriate and official use. 11 That's my understanding in a broad sense of 12 it. 13 I think that clearly it has not 14 been a tool that's been used a lot. And this 15 bill will hopefully make it significantly 16 clearer in the case of compensated outside 17 business. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 19 Senator Diaz. 20 SENATOR DIAZ: Mr. President, 21 would Senator Squadron yield for another 22 question. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 24 Senator Squadron, will you continue to yield

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 to Senator Diaz? 2 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You 4 may proceed, Senator Diaz. 5 SENATOR DIAZ: Senator Squadron, 6 is the use of a vehicle a privilege? 7 SENATOR SQUADRON: The use -- 8 SENATOR DIAZ: Of a state 9 vehicle. 10 SENATOR SQUADRON: Is the use of 11 a state vehicle a privilege? I would say that 12 a state vehicle is certainly a government 13 resource. 14 SENATOR DIAZ: Do -- 15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Yes, 16 Senator Diaz, you may continue. 17 SENATOR DIAZ: So the use of a 18 state vehicle, Senator Squadron, is a 19 privilege? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 21 Senator Squadron. 22 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes or no? 23 SENATOR SQUADRON: The use of a 24 government vehicle is a privilege? See, it

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 seems to me that the context of the use of it 2 would be -- would have to be considered. I 3 think that currently a government vehicle is a 4 government resource. I think that the 5 language of this bill would not affect that 6 use in any way unless potentially it was being 7 used for outside compensated business 8 activities. And I think in that case then it 9 would, under this bill, likely be an 10 unwarranted privilege, yes. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 12 Senator Diaz. 13 SENATOR DIAZ: Mr. President, 14 would Senator Squadron yield for another 15 question? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 17 Senator Squadron, will you yield for another 18 question? 19 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes. 20 SENATOR DIAZ: Senator Squadron, 21 so if I use a state vehicle to go or to do any 22 other thing that is not related with my 23 senatorial duties, like going to work to my 24 second job, is that an unwarranted privilege?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Am I using the government property for 2 personal reason, would that be included in 3 there? 4 SENATOR SQUADRON: Through you, 5 Mr. President, I would point out that we're 6 talking about the Code of Ethics under the 7 Public Officers Law. It is widely recognized 8 and understood that de minimis, something of 9 de minimis value is not covered. So I think 10 that there would be a question, again, as to 11 in the hypothetical. 12 I would say this. If you're using 13 a state vehicle to sell ice cream all summer, 14 I think that would be an unwarranted 15 privilege, clearly, under this bill. I think 16 that as the hypotheticals move one way or the 17 other, we'd have to look at them in a lot more 18 specifics. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 20 Senator Diaz. 21 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, 22 Mr. President. 23 Senator Squadron, I'm not talking 24 about a hypothetical thing, I'm talking about

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 reality here. And the reality is -- 2 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Do you 3 have a question, Senator Diaz? 4 SENATOR DIAZ: Mr. President, 5 would Senator Squadron yield for another 6 question? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 8 Senator Squadron, will you continue to yield? 9 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes. 10 SENATOR DIAZ: Senator Squadron, 11 I'm not talking about nothing in the air, I'm 12 talking about reality. The reality is that 13 most of the criticism that this body has 14 gotten that is that we are part-time workers 15 and that this job is a part-time job. 16 I could assure you, Senator 17 Squadron, that I not a part-time Senator. I 18 am every day in my office from 9:00 to 19 whatever, attending to constituents. But, 20 Senator Squadron -- and I'm going to get to my 21 question -- there are members of this body 22 that really are part-time. And that when 23 session ends in June, they go to do their own 24 business, to their private businesses.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Now, some of them are using 2 government property as a vehicle during the 3 whole year. Will you tell me that those 4 members of this body that use their vehicle 5 when session ends and they are going on their 6 own business, to do their private business, 7 they are violating the law? 8 SENATOR SQUADRON: Again, through 9 you, Mr. President, de minimis violations 10 aside, I would say that today, yes. If this 11 law passes, yes. 12 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, 13 Senator. 14 Thank you, Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 16 you, Senator Diaz. 17 Senator Bonacic. 18 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you, 19 Mr. Chairman. Will the sponsor yield for one 20 question? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 22 Senator Squadron, will you yield for one 23 question from Senator Bonacic? 24 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR BONACIC: I hadn't 2 intended to ask you any questions, but you 3 raised my curiosity and concern with your 4 back-and-forth with Senator Saland. 5 I want to ask you one question for 6 clarification. I have a contributor that 7 contributes to my campaign, as an example, and 8 then he asks me to call or she asks me to call 9 the DEC for an environmental problem they're 10 having with their gas station. Is that -- am 11 I in violation of an unwarranted service or 12 privilege, in your mind, under your intent 13 under this legislation? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 15 Senator Squadron. 16 SENATOR SQUADRON: To answer 17 Senator Bonacic's question, and hopefully to 18 answer Senator Saland's question -- again, a 19 former client in Senator Saland's example, a 20 contributor in Senator Bonacic's example, 21 neither count, as I understand it. Neither 22 would be compensated business. So neither 23 would be affected by this bill. 24 I believe there may be other

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 components of the law that deal with how one 2 deals with contributors, but that's not what 3 this is. This is about compensated outside 4 business. 5 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you, 6 Senator Squadron. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Are 8 there any other Senators who wish to be heard? 9 (No response.) 10 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: In 11 that event, the debate is closed. 12 The Secretary will please ring the 13 bells. 14 (Pause.) 15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Read 16 the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This 18 act shall take effect immediately. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Call 20 the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 23 Announce the results. 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60. Nays,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 0. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The 3 bill is passed. 4 The Secretary will continue to 5 read. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 18, substituted earlier today by Member of the 8 Assembly Silver, Assembly Print Number 9544, 9 an act to amend the Executive Law. 10 SENATOR LIBOUS: Explanation, 11 please. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: An 13 explanation has been requested, Senator 14 Schneiderman. 15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 16 Mr. President. 17 The bill before us now is the 18 Ethics Reform Act of 2010. It is a piece of 19 legislation that contains a series of reforms 20 to both the ethics and the election and 21 campaign finance laws of the State of 22 New York. 23 As far as I'm concerned, this is a 24 bill that has been a long time in coming. I'm

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 glad we are finally getting to vote on it here 2 today. 3 I have to say, Mr. President, when 4 I first started coming up here about 11 years 5 ago, I felt as though when we enter the 6 Capitol area we come into kind of a fog in 7 which good people seem to lose their sense 8 that "go along to get along" and "pay to play" 9 is somehow objectionable. 10 Ladies and gentlemen, there is 11 something about the atmosphere here, the 12 culture that has developed here, that leads to 13 good people to turn a blind eye to daily 14 transactions in which public interest is 15 trumped by private benefit. 16 And this bill is designed to pierce 17 that fog. I would suggest that this is the 18 first step in changing that culture. This is 19 the first step in ending pay-to-play as we 20 know it in Albany. 21 The message from this bill to 22 everyone who has worked here, in a capital 23 where disclosure is minimal, transparency is a 24 joke, and enforcement is something that is

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 limited to the state troopers in Greene 2 County -- the one area of the Thruway where 3 they give us tickets -- the message of this 4 bill is that the game is over. 5 Ladies and gentlemen, we have 6 several provisions in the bill. I know we'll 7 be talking about it for a while, but let me 8 outline it generally. 9 First of all, this changes the 10 ethics laws in the state to deal with a 11 fundamental fact that the people of the State 12 of New York seem to understand, even if it's 13 taken us a while here to get it. 14 Our financial disclosure system as 15 it exists now is a joke. This bill would 16 change that. For the first time, we'll end 17 the system of redacting the amount of money we 18 make from our financial disclosure forms. We 19 will set up a system whereby the forms we file 20 are actually reviewed. There's a system of 21 general review to ensure accuracy and random 22 review, to ensure that we're actually filling 23 out the forms properly. 24 This bill for the first time will

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 require that anyone who does business with the 2 state and seeks to influence us, anyone who is 3 a lobbyist or who hires a lobbyist, who pays 4 any of us, has to disclose that relationship 5 this is -- it's really remarkable that this is 6 not the law now. It is not the law now. This 7 bill sounds the death knell for the shroud of 8 secrecy, for this fog that has enveloped the 9 state government for too long. 10 This bill also broadens the 11 definition of lobbying. Right now no one has 12 to report if they're lobbying us on a budget 13 resolution. This bill would broaden the 14 definition of lobbying to make sure that it 15 covers everything. 16 The second component of this bill 17 is the change in the election and campaign 18 finance laws. And I have to say that these 19 portions of the bill to me personally are the 20 most important, because we now have a system 21 of campaign finance laws in which the public 22 has no confidence. And quite honestly, ladies 23 and gentlemen, I think the public is right to 24 have little or no confidence.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Independent expenditures on behalf 2 or against a candidate are not now reported. 3 Under this bill, they would be reported. We 4 will mandate for the first time that we have 5 the actual -- we actually have an enforcement 6 unit that must be funded in the Board of 7 Elections to enforce the law when it comes to 8 violations of the campaign finance laws. We 9 increase penalties. We even have a "three 10 strikes you're out" provision which we put in 11 specially for Senator Volker to ensure that he 12 votes for the bill. In case you fail to file 13 reports three times, the penalties are 14 substantially enhanced. 15 The partisan gridlock that has made 16 our campaign enforcement system a joke is 17 ended by this bill. Right now you need a 18 majority of members of the Board of Elections, 19 which is split between Republicans and 20 Democrats, to vote to begin an enforcement 21 proceeding. This bill changes it so you need 22 a majority to stop an enforcement proceeding. 23 And it creates an independent enforcement unit 24 whose funding is mandated, with counsel who

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 gets a term of years so they can't be fired 2 for being overly aggressive. 3 This bill creates the reality of a 4 campaign finance system that enforces laws, 5 that clarifies law. This bill also restores, 6 in both the ethics and campaign finance areas, 7 a system of getting advisory opinions so that 8 any of us who want to know the answer to a 9 question, who want to be clear that we're 10 complying with the law, can get that answer. 11 So, ladies and gentlemen, this 12 bill -- which has been criticized because it 13 doesn't go far enough, and there are some of 14 my colleagues who think it should do more to 15 require disclosure from lawyers or it should 16 do more to limit campaign contributions. I 17 don't disagree with them. I don't disagree 18 with them. This doesn't do everything. This 19 doesn't provide for public financing of 20 campaigns. There are a lot of bills that I 21 sponsor whose elements I would like to see in 22 this legislation. It's not all here. 23 But I assure you, in every area of 24 the law that is addressed by this legislation,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 it moves us forward. It moves us towards 2 transparency. It moves us towards disclosure. 3 It moves us towards a system of enforcement 4 that the people of the State of New York will 5 respect. 6 You want to know why we're losing 7 their respect? Not because there are 8 individual bad actors here, but because we 9 have for too long tolerated a system which 10 enables us, authorizes us and allows us under 11 law to engage in conduct which the people of 12 the State of New York recognize is 13 unacceptable. 14 We've got to end the culture of 15 pay-to-play. We've got to end the perception 16 and the reality that people are able to 17 influence members of the government -- not 18 just the Legislature, but members of the 19 executive branch as well. 20 Today we take a step towards doing 21 that. This bill begins the process of lifting 22 that fog. This bill I hope is the death knell 23 of the pay-to-play culture. I hope everyone 24 will join in voting for this. I know there

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 are some amendments that my understanding is 2 aren't actually intended to weaken the bill 3 but in some respects, perhaps, to alter it. 4 And I know that there are some objections, 5 although I must say I'm pleased to report that 6 on both sides of the aisle, where I've talked 7 to dozens of my colleagues, my sense is that 8 most people's criticism is that this bill 9 doesn't go far enough in certain areas. 10 I'm pleased by the fact that some 11 of my colleagues on the other side of the 12 aisle have spoken to me about this, come 13 forward with ideas. Senator Saland in 14 particular spotted something that, quite 15 frankly, we had missed. Senator Flanagan came 16 forward with a suggestion to make the bill 17 more equitable, which I appreciate, and we're 18 working on. 19 Yes, you came forward as well, but 20 I know you'll speak for yourself, 21 Senator Diaz. 22 I do not think this is a partisan 23 matter, ladies and gentlemen. This is an 24 institutional matter. We have to restore

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 public confidence. We have to get rid of this 2 fog. We have to step up and recognize that 3 the culture which allows people to contribute 4 money or allows businesses to pay legislators 5 while they're still seeking to engage in 6 business with the state has to end. 7 Today we start the process of 8 ending that, Mr. President. I urge everyone 9 to vote yes on this bill. 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 11 are there amendments at the desk? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 13 Senator Padavan, why do you rise? 14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Are there 15 amendments at the desk, Mr. President? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 17 Senator Padavan, your amendment is here at the 18 desk. Without objection -- 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well, would you 20 please call on Senator DeFrancisco for his 21 amendments. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 23 Certainly. 24 Senator DeFrancisco.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, 2 there's an amendment at the desk and I'd waive 3 its reading. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 5 Senator DeFrancisco, there is an amendment at 6 the desk. And without objection, the reading 7 is waived and you may speak on the amendment. 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 9 Schneiderman indicated in no uncertain terms 10 that he believes the most important part of 11 this bill is the campaign finance law reform, 12 and gave the reasons for that. And he 13 indicated that we must restore confidence in 14 the public as to how campaign finance law 15 works and how people in the Legislature work 16 under it. 17 And he pointed out that one of the 18 most important aspects of the unit or of the 19 change is an enforcement unit. Now the 20 enforcement can be done. And he emphasized 21 that it's so important that we stop the 22 partisan gridlock. 23 Well, I'm going to help him do that 24 by this modification, because it's got to be

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 an oversight. The modification deals with the 2 enforcement counsel who is given the authority 3 to actually commence proceedings under the 4 alleged violations under the Election Law. 5 And it takes actually three out of the four 6 commission members to stop those proceedings. 7 But the enforcement counsel can start them. 8 The enforcement counsel is not 9 elected by anybody, it's appointed. And the 10 enforcement counsel since the '70s has always 11 been a member of the Democrat Party. 12 Now, it would be just as offensive, 13 if we're trying to reform the system, if that 14 person was a member of the Republican Party. 15 The fact is one party has the person that's in 16 charge of starting the process that could only 17 be stopped by three out of four commission 18 members. 19 Not only that, that person has a 20 four-year term. And that four-year term, when 21 that person is done after the four-year term, 22 the person can be either reappointed or 23 reappointed by the same persons who appointed 24 that person in the first place, which are the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Democrat commissioners. 2 Now, if we're really and truly 3 talking about true reform, a bill like this, 4 where there's enforcement authority, depends 5 upon the fairness of the enforcement. And I 6 don't know Liz Hogan from anybody. I've never 7 met her. But she's been in that position for 8 some time. Not casting any aspersions on her. 9 But if we want the public to feel 10 confident that there's not partisan gridlock 11 and one party isn't controlling the 12 enforcement process, then we've got to change 13 that. And that's what this amendment would 14 do. 15 Instead of a four-year term for 16 that person who is the enforcement counsel, it 17 would be a two-year term and it would 18 alternate between the enforcement counsel and 19 the deputy, who would be of the other party. 20 So that every two years, the person who's in 21 charge of enforcing the law and bringing 22 charges that could only be stopped by three of 23 the four members of the commission is of a 24 different party.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Now, that seems logical. It 2 follows exactly the parameters that Senator 3 Schneiderman talked about, bipartisan, no 4 partisan gridlock. And it will restore faith 5 that the process is a fair process for both 6 parties. 7 And for those reasons, I offer this 8 amendment and I urge my colleagues to support 9 it. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Are 11 there any other Senators wishing to be heard 12 on the amendment? 13 (No response.) 14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Then 15 the question is on the nonsponsor motion to 16 amend Calendar Number 18. 17 Those Senators voting in support of 18 the nonsponsor amendment please raise your 19 hands. 20 Announce the results. 21 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 22 the affirmative are Senators Alesi, Bonacic, 23 DeFrancisco, Farley, Flanagan, Fuschillo, 24 Golden, Griffo, Hannon, O. Johnson, Lanza,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Larkin, Leibell, Little, Marcellino, Maziarz, 2 McDonald, Nozzolio, Padavan, Ranzenhofer, 3 Robach, Saland, Seward, Skelos, Volker, Winner 4 and Young. 5 Ayes, 27. Nays, 32. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The 7 motion fails. 8 SENATOR PADAVAN: Is there a 9 second amendment at the desk, Mr. President? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Yes, 11 Senator Padavan. 12 Senator DeFrancisco, there is a 13 second amendment at the desk. Without 14 objection, the reading is waived and you may 15 speak on the amendment. 16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Thank you. 17 Anticipating that there really 18 wasn't a strong desire on the other side of 19 the aisle to make this a bipartisan 20 enforcement process, I figured that maybe 21 there would be another way to at least have 22 some modicum of fairness in the process of who 23 determines what charges are going to be 24 brought and who prosecutes those charges.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 And what this bill basically does 2 is it eliminates the enforcement officer -- 3 who is a Democrat, has been a Democrat, will 4 always be a Democrat under the current 5 statute -- from pursuing charges against 6 possibly, in close election years, Republicans 7 more than Democrats, just possibly. 8 To have some modicum of fairness, 9 this says eliminate that enforcement officer 10 and make it an elected official, the Attorney 11 General. Who for the time being happens to be 12 a Democrat and will be a Democrat between now 13 and the next election. 14 The fact of the matter is at least 15 the person who's going to be enforcing these 16 so-called bipartisan rules will be someone 17 elected by the people. And it could be a 18 Republican, it could be a Democrat, it could 19 be usually a Democrat. But at least there's 20 some modicum of fairness. 21 So that's what this amendment does. 22 And I would urge each of my colleagues to 23 provide some fairness in the enforcement 24 process so we are not accused of reforming

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 something so that it is truly partisan in how 2 the enforcement is determined. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Are 4 there any other Senators wishing to be heard 5 on the amendment? 6 (No response.) 7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The 8 question then is on the nonsponsor motion to 9 amend Calendar Number 18. 10 Those Senators voting in support of 11 the nonsponsor amendment please raise your 12 hands. 13 Announce the results. 14 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 27. Nays, 15 32. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The 17 motion fails. 18 Senator Padavan, why do you rise? 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: Mr. President, 20 will you call up my amendment, please. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 22 Senator Padavan, your amendment is here at the 23 desk. Without objection, the reading is 24 waived and you may speak on the amendment.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: Thank you, 2 Mr. President. 3 Today is a day we deal with 4 disclosure, we deal with transparency, we deal 5 with issues such as Senator Schneiderman 6 referred to as pay-to-play. But there's one 7 area that we totally ignore, and they fit the 8 bill in terms of the need for transparency, 9 the need for disclosure, and the preemptor of 10 pay-to-play. And they're called political 11 consultants. 12 These individuals and entities 13 currently, as far as the state is concerned, 14 do not have to disclose their clients or their 15 relationships, or in any way, shape or form 16 would any of the entities that we've created 17 in current law and which we have expanded upon 18 today. 19 And this amendment would do just 20 that. It's a bill that I introduced last 21 session and the year before. It patterns 22 something which is currently in effect, 23 believe it or not, in the City of New York -- 24 and in the State of Texas and the City of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 San Francisco. 2 Now, to clarify some of the 3 insights into what we're trying to do here, 4 there was an interesting article, a very 5 lengthy one, written in the New York Times a 6 few years ago on this very subject. It's 7 entitled "First the Campaign, Then the 8 Lobbying." And I'd like to just read two 9 sentences from it because I think it's helpful 10 to understand what we're trying to achieve. 11 "'Helping elect someone and then 12 lobbying that official so clearly represents 13 the appearance of a conflict of interest that 14 will undermine public confidence in 15 government. The nexus between the lobbyist, 16 the government official, and the corporation 17 is a dangerous one, a kind of Iron Triangle,' 18 said Douglas Muzzio, a professor of public 19 policy at Baruch College. 'They are not only 20 influencing policy, which they are supposed to 21 do as a lobbyist, they are actually choosing 22 the government officials who will then turn 23 around and act on clients whose interests 24 these people are representing.'"

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Now, it just seems logical to me 2 that if we're going to require so much in the 3 way of public disclosure, that this group of 4 individuals and entities are totally outside 5 what we are seeking to achieve, at least at 6 the state level. And all we're doing is 7 simply asking them to disclose. It also, by 8 the way, provides for a code of conduct in the 9 exercise of their activity. 10 So, Mr. President, that in essence 11 is what this amendment does. It seems so 12 logical, so essential, and I think we all know 13 why it's so important. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 15 you, Senator Padavan. 16 Are there any other Senators 17 wishing to be heard on the amendment? 18 The question is on the nonsponsor 19 motion to amend Calendar 18. Those Senators 20 voting in support of the nonsponsor amendment 21 please raise your hands. 22 Announce the results. 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 27. Nays, 24 32.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The 2 motion fails. 3 We are now back on the main bill. 4 Senator Squadron, on the bill. 5 SENATOR SQUADRON: Thank you, 6 Mr. President. There's much to say -- 7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Excuse 8 me. 9 Senator Padavan. 10 SENATOR PADAVAN: I was simply 11 going to ask the sponsor to yield to a 12 question. But if you wish -- 13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: As 14 soon as Senator Squadron does not have the 15 floor, you may proceed, Senator Padavan. 16 Senator Squadron. 17 SENATOR SQUADRON: Thank you, 18 Mr. President. 19 There's much to say about the 20 things this bill doesn't do for reform. We 21 just saw some amendments presented, and a lot 22 of it's legitimate. But there's also a lot 23 about what this bill does do for reform. And 24 the truth is -- I think we all know it -- for

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 years Albany hasn't done much to reform 2 itself. An ever-shifting set of arguments has 3 been used to prevent action, to kill reform in 4 a closed back room, or through the alluring 5 words of an empty press release. 6 Today is the beginning of actually 7 getting something done and passed into law -- 8 not out of this house, not out of the other 9 house, not out of the second floor -- into 10 law. I hope we're not tripped up in this step 11 forward. 12 The arguments against passing the 13 bill are arguments against a step forward. 14 They are not arguments, as they may be guised 15 to be, to go farther. That's important. 16 That's not a reason to oppose this bill; it's 17 a reason to keep going after we pass this 18 bill. 19 Senator Schneiderman ably described 20 this bill and its need, and I appreciate that. 21 I appreciate Senator Sampson's and Senator 22 Krueger's and so many others fighting for this 23 issue for so long, well before I was here. 24 There's one piece of the bill I

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 want to highlight very briefly that I think 2 may be a source of some of its opposition. In 3 addition to the disclosure and the enforcement 4 that Senator Schneiderman talked about, this 5 bill would significantly increase the 6 independence of ethics oversight for us in the 7 Legislature and legislative employees. 8 The new Legislative Office of 9 Ethics Investigation will have commissioners 10 serving for a fixed term, an appointed 11 executive director serving for a fixed term, 12 pursuing all complaints regardless of the 13 source. The commissioners and executive 14 director can't be legislators, they can't be 15 lobbyists, they can't work for the 16 Legislature. No majority of that commission 17 is controlled by either party or either house. 18 Finally, any findings of wrongdoing will be 19 made public from the LOEI. 20 But we can't just focus on the 21 Legislature. This bill also changes oversight 22 of the executive branch. Under this bill, we 23 cannot ignore that for the first time ever, 24 executive ethics will not be controlled by the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Governor. 2 Under current law, as you know, a 3 majority of commissioners on the Commission on 4 Public Integrity are appointed by the 5 Governor. That Commission on Public Integrity 6 oversees lobbying in the executive branch. If 7 this bill doesn't pass into law, that will not 8 change. If this bill does pass into law, the 9 Governor, the Comptroller, the Attorney 10 General will all appoint the Executive Ethics 11 Commission. None of them, no individual will 12 control executive ethics. 13 Let's be honest. This bill is the 14 beginning and not the end of needed reform. 15 And even so, it is a difficult pill to swallow 16 for a lot of folks in this room, a lot of 17 folks in government, because it will affect 18 us. Those of us who are passing it and 19 hopefully signing it into law will have new 20 oversight on our behavior. It's true for the 21 Legislature, it's true for the Executive, it's 22 true for candidates for office. 23 And whatever disagreements we have 24 about how far we should go -- and a lot of us,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 including myself, would like to continue and 2 would like to keep going farther -- this bill 3 will start that process. Stopping this bill, 4 this bill's failure, will stop the process in 5 its tracks. And that's the reason that I hope 6 we pass it out of this house today and I hope 7 to see it signed into law as soon as possible. 8 Thank you, Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 10 you, Senator Squadron. 11 Senator Padavan. 12 SENATOR PADAVAN: Will Senator 13 Schneiderman yield for a question. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 15 Senator Schneiderman, will you yield for a 16 question from Senator Padavan? 17 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, 18 Mr. President, I will be happy to yield. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 20 Senator Padavan, you may proceed. 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Senator, you 22 touched on this briefly, but I wonder if you'd 23 amplify it by answering my question. 24 If currently you are a legislator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 filing your annual forms and disclosure forms 2 and so on, and you also are a contractor, a 3 consultant, a manufacturer, so on -- any one 4 of a number of different vocations or 5 professions -- you would have to list the 6 names of all your clients, am I correct? 7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: You have 8 to list -- there are two different areas of 9 disclosure that I discussed. One is the 10 disclosure by the members of the Legislature. 11 You have to list your sources of income. And 12 unless there is a particular privilege that 13 applies, as it does with doctors or lawyers -- 14 SENATOR PADAVAN: Well, I'm going 15 to get to that, Senator. I'm talking about 16 someone like -- 17 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I have 18 to -- 19 SENATOR PADAVAN: -- someone 20 like -- 21 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I -- 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: -- someone like 23 me, Senator. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Senator Padavan, please. Let Senator 2 Schneiderman finish his answer. 3 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I know 4 you're enthusiastic to hear me talk, but let 5 me just finish this sentence and we'll get to 6 the good stuff. 7 Unless a privilege applies, you 8 have to list the clients of a firm that pays 9 you. The idea here is that you can't just say 10 "I got a million dollars from XYZ 11 Consultants." In every case except those as 12 to which a privilege applies, you have to list 13 the clients of that firm as well. 14 There is also a provision, however, 15 that requires disclosure by the firms. If 16 anyone is doing business with the state 17 seeking to influence the Legislature, either 18 by being a lobbyist or employing a lobbyist, 19 whether it's privileged or not -- lawyer, 20 doctor, anyone -- they have to disclose that. 21 So we have two types of disclosure. 22 One is clients in general. But the second 23 and, to me, most significant part of this is 24 that anyone seeking to do business with the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 state or influence the Legislature has got to 2 disclose a financial relationship with a 3 legislator even if it is a lawyer. This gets 4 in the lawyers and doctors and ministers. 5 Anyone with a privilege, the client has to 6 waive that privilege if they're trying to do 7 business with the state. 8 SENATOR PADAVAN: Would the 9 Senator continue to yield. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 11 Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to yield 12 to Senator Padavan? 13 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. 14 SENATOR PADAVAN: I understand 15 fully the issue of lobbyists; namely, if 16 there's a lobbyist involved, that disclosure 17 is required. 18 What I'm talking about and my 19 question related to those business 20 involvements -- clients, customers, whatever 21 you wish to call them -- where there is no 22 lobbyist involved. It's directly between the 23 legislator and the entity in question. 24 So therefore the answer to my

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 question, if I heard you correctly, is yes, 2 they must list all their clients. Is that 3 correct? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 5 Senator Schneiderman. 6 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Except 7 that I'm not sure who "they" is. But yes -- 8 SENATOR PADAVAN: "They" being a 9 legislator who deals directly with clients, 10 who do not have lobbyists, no lobbyists 11 involved. And that entity can be one of a 12 hundred different things. I described them 13 before: Manufacturing, management consulting, 14 all the way down the line. 15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. 16 Through you, Mr. President, that does not mean 17 that everybody who buys a product from a 18 manufacturer has to be listed. All that means 19 is that if you are receiving payment from 20 someone, through an entity, through a 21 consulting entity, that now has to be 22 disclosed. 23 This is to deal with the problem 24 that has come up that was discussed earlier

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 today, that there were questions that have 2 been raised and there have been some cases 3 that have come up recently with members of the 4 Legislature relating to consulting firms, 5 where essentially there was a loophole in the 6 current law that you have to list the fact 7 that I'm paid a million dollars by XYZ 8 Consultants, but you don't have to disclose 9 who's paying to XYZ Consultants. 10 That's what this gets at. Not the 11 fact that if you receive money from Wal-Mart, 12 you have to list everyone who's ever bought 13 anything at Wal-Mart. That's not what this 14 does. 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: I would presume 16 not. 17 And by the way, I think that's a 18 good idea. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 20 Senator Padavan, do you wish -- 21 SENATOR PADAVAN: Would he 22 continue to yield? 23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I continue 24 to yield.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You 2 may proceed, Senator Padavan. 3 SENATOR PADAVAN: You touched on 4 this in passing. If you were in a protected 5 class -- and that, I presume, includes 6 attorneys and individuals who do real estate 7 work or insurance work. I don't know what 8 other protected classes there are, but in 9 those categories -- you would not have to do 10 what you and I just agreed upon you do have to 11 do in every other case. Is that so? 12 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. 13 Through you, Mr. President. Under this 14 bill -- and this is an issue that we've had a 15 lot of discussions about, certainly in our 16 conference. Some people feel that it doesn't 17 go far enough. But under this bill, as to 18 those professions for which there is a 19 privilege, you do not have to disclose the 20 identity of your clients or patients, as the 21 case may be. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 23 Senator Padavan. 24 SENATOR PADAVAN: Will you

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 continue to yield? 2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will 3 continue to yield. 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: If you -- 5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Excuse 6 me, Senator Padavan. I think you understand 7 the process. I'm not trying to be difficult. 8 SENATOR PADAVAN: No, I thought I 9 heard him say yes. 10 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: No, but 11 through Mr. President. Yes, Mr. President, I 12 yield. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You 14 may proceed. 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: I'm just trying 16 to get home earlier, Senator. 17 Senator, there are roughly, I 18 think, 211, 212 legislators here in the 19 Capitol. What percentage of them would you 20 think are either lawyers, insurance brokers, 21 any of the other protected -- real estate 22 agents, any of the other protected classes? 23 What percentage would you think that is, 24 roughly? I wouldn't hold you to an exact

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 number. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 3 Senator Schneiderman. 4 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I have no 5 idea. 6 SENATOR PADAVAN: Would you say a 7 third? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 9 Senator Padavan -- 10 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 11 you, Mr. President, no, I wouldn't say a 12 third. I have no idea. 13 SENATOR PADAVAN: All right. 14 Well, thank you, Senator. You've been very 15 kind. 16 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 17 Senator. 18 SENATOR PADAVAN: Just briefly, 19 Mr. President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 21 Senator Padavan on the bill. 22 SENATOR PADAVAN: This dialogue 23 obviously has been a subject of a lot of 24 public dialogue on the very issue.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 And I would take a guess that 2 probably if you added up all of the categories 3 that are in the protected class, you're 4 talking about roughly one-fourth to one-third 5 of the total number of legislators here in the 6 Capitol. 7 And while I have no feeling at all 8 that any of them would or are doing anything 9 that is untold, the fact remains that we 10 shouldn't have two classes of citizens here. 11 There should not be one group who might be in 12 a whole score of other kinds of activities, 13 have clients who do business with the state 14 and they have to disclose it, income from 15 these clients and whatever the case may be, 16 and then another class where that's just 17 simply not the case. 18 I don't think that engenders public 19 confidence to the degree that I believe the 20 sponsors all intend to do. And that is -- you 21 know, I hear frequently the comment that this 22 is a beginning and we have more to do and all 23 of that -- 24 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Senator Duane, why do you rise? 2 SENATOR DUANE: I'm wondering if 3 the Senator would yield for a moment. 4 SENATOR PADAVAN: Sure. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 6 Senator Padavan, will you yield? 7 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes, certainly. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 9 Senator Duane. 10 SENATOR DUANE: Mr. President, 11 I'm curious as to whether or not in the 12 assertion of not wanting two classes of 13 people, if that also includes those who are 14 able to be married or not. 15 SENATOR PADAVAN: I don't know if 16 that's a -- I don't know the answer to that 17 question. I don't know if they're in a 18 protected class or not. Ask the sponsor. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 20 Senator Duane. 21 SENATOR DUANE: Even though it 22 wasn't through you, Mr. President, thank you. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: I 24 accept it. Thank you, Senator Duane.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR PADAVAN: All right, 2 thank you. Getting back to what I was saying, 3 with all due respect to the intentions of the 4 sponsors of this legislation -- and I intend 5 to vote for it. And as a matter of public 6 disclosure, I don't have any businesses, I'm a 7 full-time legislator, I don't have any firm or 8 whatever. So my question is purely academic, 9 in case you were wondering. 10 But the fact remains it's still a 11 valid question. And I would hope that as time 12 evolves and as the public weighs in and finds 13 out what we've done today, that perhaps we'll 14 move in a direction that will provide a more 15 even playing field, a more total environment 16 in terms of disclosure and reporting. 17 Thank you, Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 19 you, Senator Padavan. 20 Senator Bonacic. 21 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you, 22 Mr. Chairman. Will the sponsor answer a few 23 questions for me? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Senator Schneiderman, will you yield to 2 Senator Bonacic for questions? 3 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will be 4 happy to yield to Senator Bonacic, who has 5 long toiled in the vineyards of reform. 6 SENATOR BONACIC: Senator 7 Schneiderman, let me first thank you for 8 advancing the ethics legislation. That will 9 probably be the last compliment I will give 10 you as we have this dialogue. 11 My first question to you, let's 12 assume that this legislation becomes law and 13 that Senator Bruno was still the majority 14 leader. Under the old law, we know what had 15 to be done. But under the new law, how would 16 it have affected him? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 18 Senator Schneiderman. 19 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Well, 20 through you, Mr. President, I'm really not 21 sure how it would have affected Senator Bruno. 22 I am not intimately familiar with the facts of 23 his case. 24 There certainly are restrictions in

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 this law, and certainly the clarification of 2 the existing law that was provided in Senator 3 Squadron's bill that may have intercepted 4 conduct at an earlier stage. 5 I do know that if you have a 6 disclosure form and you can't just list that 7 you make money from a consulting firm but you 8 have to list the clients of the consulting 9 firm, that might have provided disclosure that 10 may have caused things to take a different 11 course. 12 But I can't say specifically how 13 this would have affected the course of events 14 surrounding Senator Bruno. 15 SENATOR BONACIC: Will Senator 16 Schneiderman continue to yield? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Will 18 you continue to yield, Senator Schneiderman? 19 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 20 you, Mr. President, I'm happy to. 21 SENATOR BONACIC: Under the 22 question I asked, there probably would have 23 been more disclosure requirements for a 24 consulting business, whether it be Assemblyman

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Seminerio or the former majority leader, 2 Senator Bruno. Would you agree to that? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 4 Senator Schneiderman. 5 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, 6 through you, Mr. President, this legislation 7 would provide substantially more disclosure, 8 both disclosure by the legislator but also 9 disclosure by any firm doing business with the 10 state on their reports to the Lobbying 11 Commission. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 13 Senator Bonacic. 14 SENATOR BONACIC: Would you 15 continue to yield, Mr. Schneiderman? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Do you 17 continue to yield, Senator Schneiderman? 18 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 19 you, Mr. President, I'd be happy to. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You 21 may proceed. 22 SENATOR BONACIC: Now I'm going 23 to ask that same question with respect to 24 Assemblyman Silver. Under the old reporting

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 requirements and now under the new reporting 2 requirements, if this is to become law, is 3 there any increased burden in disclosure with 4 respect to the Speaker of the other house? 5 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Again, 6 through you, Mr. President, I'm not sure at 7 present what Speaker Silver's employment 8 status is. 9 I will tell you that if he derives 10 a financial benefit, either that he is hired 11 by or shares in the profits of a firm, for 12 anyone that seeks to do business of any kind 13 with the state, under this bill that would now 14 have to be disclosed. I don't know -- I'm not 15 sure what his status is with his firm, so I 16 can't really go beyond that. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 18 Senator Bonacic. 19 SENATOR BONACIC: Would you 20 continue to yield? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Do you 22 continue to yield, Senator? 23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I would 24 continue to yield.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You 2 may proceed. 3 SENATOR BONACIC: Is there 4 anything in the new legislation if it passes, 5 in this bill, that would require disclosure of 6 clients of that firm with respect to the 7 Speaker of the other house? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 9 Senator Schneiderman. 10 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. 11 Through you, Mr. President. Again, to me, the 12 most important thing in the area of ethics and 13 disclosure that this bill does is require that 14 if I'm a lawyer and someone who is seeking to 15 do business with the State of New York, a 16 company or an individual, retains me to do any 17 work or retains a firm whose profits I share 18 in, that has to be disclosed. 19 So this is to say that if someone 20 retains me or Speaker Silver or anyone else to 21 represent them in a slip-and-fall case in a 22 hotel -- it has nothing to do with the 23 state -- that relationship does not have to be 24 disclosed. And to me, those are not the most

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 significant things that we're missing here. 2 If any company or individual that 3 does business with the state retains me for 4 any purpose, even if they're not retaining me 5 in connection with their business with the 6 state, that has to be disclosed. So that 7 would affect all the lawyers here, including 8 the Speaker. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 10 Senator Bonacic. 11 SENATOR BONACIC: Senator 12 Schneiderman, would you continue to yield? 13 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will 14 continue to yield, Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 16 Senator Schneiderman will continue to yield. 17 SENATOR BONACIC: I guess I 18 understand your answer with respect to the 19 Speaker, but how about the clients of the 20 Speaker, having them have to disclose their 21 relationship? 22 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. 23 Through you, Mr. President, I think that's 24 what I just said. That there will have to be

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 disclosure -- an attorney cannot waive a 2 privilege for a client, but the clients are 3 required under this bill to waive a privilege 4 if they're doing business with the state and 5 disclose that interest. Even if they are 6 retaining a lawyer -- legislator-lawyer -- for 7 some business other than their business with 8 the state. 9 So any relationship that could 10 possibly be construed as pay-to-play -- the 11 intention of this bill, at any rate, is to 12 have disclosure of any relationship that could 13 possibly be construed to as pay-to-play, 14 whether it's a doctor or a lawyer or a 15 minister or anyone else subject to privilege. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 17 Senator Bonacic. 18 SENATOR BONACIC: Mr. 19 Schneiderman, will you continue to yield? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Do you 21 continue to yield, Senator Schneiderman? 22 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 23 you, Mr. President, I will yield to 24 Mr. Bonacic.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR BONACIC: Okay. As you 2 recall, in the Codes Committee we had concerns 3 about an attended event of more than 25 people 4 with a threshold of $10. And I have a series 5 of questions that many of the members on both 6 sides of the aisle participate in these 7 events, and I thought the language in the 8 legislation was vague. So for the spirit of 9 the legislation, I'm asking you to clarify. 10 And I'm going to give you four examples that 11 we all experience in attending events. Okay? 12 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 13 you, Mr. President, I am happy to participate 14 in this multiple-choice exam. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: And 16 you may proceed, Senator Bonacic. 17 SENATOR BONACIC: I'm trying to 18 get at the legislative intent. 19 An elected official, Assemblyman or 20 a Senator, gets invited to a firefighters' 21 dinner, and the meal and the soda is $25. And 22 there's no ceremonial acts. That fire company 23 has a lobbyist. They may ask him, you know, 24 help us out with equipment or some other

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 firematics need. In your mind, is that a 2 violation of the language in this legislation 3 for our officials? 4 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 5 you, Mr. President, we did discuss this 6 before. That should not be a problem. 7 And let me just point out that this 8 is on page 11 of the proposed legislation, 9 starting at line 41. It's a section that's 10 called "Complimentary attendance: Food and 11 bench offered by the sponsor of an event." 12 And the issue here is really how to ensure 13 that no one is being, as the expression goes, 14 wined and dined to influence themselves. 15 You would not have a problem with a 16 dinner by a fire company or any other 17 organization if it meets any of these 18 requirements: If it is a charitable function, 19 which most of these are; if it is something 20 that is a widely attended event where 25 or 21 more people have been invited to the event, 22 which is true in most of these situations; or 23 if you're consuming less than $10 worth of 24 goodies.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 The point of this is not to prevent 2 any of us from going to the events we attend 3 all the time in our districts. Charitable 4 organizations that you go to, fine. Widely 5 attended events, fine. And even if you go to 6 an event that's just a few people that's being 7 done for business purposes, as long as you 8 don't take more than $10 worth of food or 9 other goods, fine. 10 So the intention here is certainly 11 not to stop any legislator from going about 12 their business and going to these public 13 events. And I think that we have covered all 14 of that with this whole list of exceptions to 15 the prohibition. 16 SENATOR BONACIC: Okay. Thank 17 you, Mr. Schneiderman. Will you continue to 18 yield? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Do you 20 continue to yield, Senator Schneiderman? 21 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Mr. 22 President, I'll continue to yield. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 24 Senator Saland, why do you rise?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR SALAND: I realize that 2 Senator Schneiderman has yielded to Senator 3 Bonacic. But before this exchange goes any 4 further, I would wonder if Senator Bonacic and 5 Senator Schneiderman might permit me to ask 6 Senator Schneiderman to yield, if that's 7 permitted under the rules. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: It 9 would be up to Senator Bonacic, Senator 10 Saland. He has the floor. 11 SENATOR BONACIC: Of course. To 12 Senator Saland, sure. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 14 Senator Saland, you may -- would you yield to 15 Senator Saland, Senator Schneiderman? Senator 16 Schneiderman, would you yield to Senator 17 Saland? 18 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. To 19 Senator Saland, yes. Yes. 20 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 21 Senator Schneiderman. 22 I heard you make reference to this 23 attendance being okay if in fact there was a 24 $10 cap. I'm looking at page 11, and I'm not

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 starting at line 41, I'm starting at line 37. 2 And line 37 reads: "The following are 3 excluded from the definition of a gift." 4 Nowhere between line 37 and line 54 is there 5 any mention of any amount. 6 In single (i) it says complimentary 7 attendance, including food and beverage, at a 8 bona fide charitable and political event. And 9 the rest of the language in the existing law 10 is omitted. Again, it says nothing about the 11 $10 limitation. And if you go to (ii), if you 12 read that language, it says nothing about a 13 $10 limitation. 14 So my question to you is, if you're 15 invited to a charitable event -- let's assume 16 the XYZ hospital in your district invites you, 17 and you're there as their guest and the price 18 of a ticket is $100. Under this section, is 19 that a permitted event if it's a widely 20 attended event and nothing in here makes any 21 reference -- 22 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. Yes. 23 Through you, Mr. President, Senator Saland is 24 absolutely correct.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 As I tried to explain in my 2 discourse with Senator Bonacic, these are 3 series of exceptions. The $10 limitation is 4 at the next page, the bottom of page 12. 5 But if you are going for a 6 charitable function in connection with your 7 services as a Senator or performing ceremonial 8 duties or if it is a widely attended event, 9 the $10 limit is not required. That is a 10 separate exception to the prohibition. 11 So Senator Saland is correct. 12 That's on the next page, on page 12, at the 13 bottom. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 15 you very much, Senator Saland. 16 Senator Bonacic, you may proceed. 17 SENATOR BONACIC: Back to Senator 18 Schneiderman. 19 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Senator 20 Bonacic, I missed you. 21 SENATOR BONACIC: When I spoke of 22 that firefighters' event, it may not be 23 charitable and it may not be political. And 24 they do have a lobbyist. So I just don't want

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 to get caught with your rules where a lobbyist 2 is involved and it doesn't fall into the 3 categories of political or charitable and they 4 do ask you as Senator to help them with 5 firefighter needs. In your mind, is that a 6 violation? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 8 Senator Schneiderman. 9 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 10 you, Mr. President. Again, this is a list -- 11 we're talking about a prohibition against 12 accepting a benefit. There are a long list of 13 exceptions to the prohibition. One of the 14 prohibitions has to do with a charitable 15 event. Another has to do with consuming $10 16 or less of food or drink. But the most common 17 is that if this is a widely attended event -- 18 which certainly in my district virtually all 19 of these are events where 25 or more people 20 are invited. 21 If you meet any of these -- and 22 again, in my district, most of these we're 23 talking about not-for-profit organizations, 24 and a lot of these events are in fact within

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 the definition of charitable events. So if 2 you meet any of these exceptions, you are not 3 subject to the prohibition. 4 And I cannot imagine an event, 5 unless you have an extraordinarily fancy 6 for-profit fire company that is wining and 7 dining you in a very small room with only a 8 few people, I can't imagine the circumstances 9 where the dinner with the firefighters would 10 possibly not meet one of these exceptions. 11 SENATOR BONACIC: Okay. Would 12 you continue to yield? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Do you 14 continue to yield to Senator Bonacic? 15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 16 you, Mr. President, yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You 18 may proceed. 19 SENATOR BONACIC: Another 20 example. We in our districts are invited to 21 meet with school superintendents. And it's 22 probably 8 to 15 of them, depending on how 23 many school districts you have in that 24 particular county. And they serve you lunch,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 and the value of the lunch may be $15. And 2 they have a lobbyist. In your mind, is that a 3 violation for an elected official? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 5 Senator Schneiderman. 6 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 7 you, Mr. President. Again -- and let me cite 8 you to page 12, line 51. Another aspect of 9 this is an exclusion of meals and refreshments 10 from participating in a professional or 11 educational program and the meals or 12 refreshments are provided to all participants. 13 So again, I'm not sure what the 14 circumstances are here. But it's hard for me 15 to see how would not fit within one of these 16 exceptions. Certainly it is not the intention 17 of this bill to prevent you from meeting with 18 local school superintendents. 19 Again, there's even a broader, 20 blanket exception that covers something that 21 would enable you, if you have any question 22 about this, to question the Ethics Oversight 23 Board to determine there was any question 24 about it. And the standard there is that if

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 this event is related to your duties or 2 responsibilities as determined by the Ethics 3 Oversight Board. 4 Again, meeting with people in your 5 district to get their input on what you're 6 doing is not what this is designed to prevent. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 8 Senator Bonacic. 9 SENATOR BONACIC: Would you 10 continue to yield? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Will 12 you continue to yield, Senator Schneiderman? 13 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will 14 continue to yield, Mr. President. 15 SENATOR BONACIC: The same 16 question, but now I've been invited for five 17 hospitals and their CEOs. And now there's 18 only five of them there, and they treat us to 19 lunch that's worth $20. And obviously, 20 whether it's the superintendents, whether it's 21 the hospitals, they want to know how they're 22 going to be affected on budget, what we can 23 do, help with member items, capital funds. 24 Is that a violation? And they have

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 a lobbyist. 2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Well, 3 through you, Mr. President. If you are the 4 only Senator invited and five hospital CEOs 5 take you out for a fancy meal and talk to you 6 about healthcare cuts in the state budget, 7 that could be a violation, yes. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 9 Senator Bonacic. 10 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: If it's a 11 widely attended event and they're inviting 12 lots of people, no. 13 And I assure you, I have much 14 fancier hospitals and CEOs in my district than 15 you probably do in yours, and they have their 16 own dining rooms. But if they invite me up 17 there to influence me and I accept that, that 18 could be a violation. 19 If it's a generally attended event, 20 a charitable function, I consume less than 21 $10, or any of these other exceptions, it's 22 not a problem. 23 SENATOR BONACIC: Senator 24 Schneiderman, will you continue to yield?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 2 you, Mr. President, I'm happy to yield. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 4 Senator Schneiderman continues to yield. 5 SENATOR BONACIC: In most of 6 these districts, both Assembly and Senate 7 outside New York City, there's a great 8 geographical area and there's multiple events, 9 sometimes at the same time, and we have a to 10 send a representative on our behalf. 11 Now, let's assume it's not a 12 well-attended event and the cost of the meal 13 is in excess of $10. Who is in violation? 14 Question number one. Is it the representative 15 that sends -- you know, the elected official 16 that sends the rep, or is the representative 17 in violation? 18 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Well, 19 through you, Mr. President, these rules apply 20 to elected officials. But it does extend to 21 the staff. It's not something that would -- 22 the staff member would not be incurring a 23 penalty; we would. 24 SENATOR BONACIC: Okay, let me

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 make sure I -- Mr. Schneiderman, would you 2 continue to yield? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 4 Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to 5 yield? 6 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 7 you, Mr. President, I continue to yield. 8 SENATOR BONACIC: So there would 9 never be a violation against that elected 10 official's rep. And are you saying that it is 11 also not a violation against the elected 12 official in that case? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 14 Senator Schneiderman. 15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Well, 16 through you, Mr. President, it's the same set 17 of rules we've been discussing. If the staff 18 member goes to dinner with a small group of 19 people who take him to a hundred-dollar meal 20 and talk to him about -- and essentially are 21 lobbying him, that could be a violation, that 22 person acting on behalf of me or you or 23 another legislator. It depends on the 24 specific circumstances.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Again, if it is a charitable 2 function, a widely attended event, any of the 3 other exceptions we've discussed, no 4 violation. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 6 Senator Bonacic. 7 SENATOR BONACIC: Would you 8 continue to yield, Mr. Schneiderman? 9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 10 Senator Schneiderman. 11 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will, 12 through you, Mr. President. 13 SENATOR BONACIC: We have events 14 in Albany all the time. And my first question 15 is we have constituents at a reception, and 16 the cost of that sponsor putting on that 17 reception is more than $10, whoever would walk 18 in, if they wanted to partake of a buffet or a 19 drink. 20 If an elected official goes to that 21 reception and shakes the hands of the 22 constituents who wanted to visit with them, 23 doesn't eat or drink anything, is that a 24 violation of this legislation?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 2 Senator Schneiderman. 3 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 4 you, Mr. President, no. 5 Again, I would urge the Senator 6 that the same set of rules that we've 7 discussed apply. Widely attended events -- 8 and most of these events, 25 people are 9 invited. This only requires invitation, not 10 that they show up. Consumption of food or 11 drink less than $10. 12 Again, the purpose here is to 13 ensure that improper influence is not brought 14 to bear. There are situations, frankly, in 15 which you're just better off buying your own 16 lunch. And we're not saying that there aren't 17 situations where it's not better to err on the 18 side of declining to accept benefits. 19 But general run-of-the-mill events 20 where you're meeting constituents and the 21 purpose is to meet constituents, not to meet 22 with people who are attempting to influence 23 you as a legislator through providing you with 24 some benefit, that's not the intention of this

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 bill. 2 SENATOR BONACIC: Okay. Would 3 you continue to yield, Mr. Schneiderman? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 5 Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to yield 6 to Senator Bonacic? 7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will 8 continue to yield, Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You 10 may proceed. 11 SENATOR BONACIC: Senator 12 Schneiderman, you know, I remember that -- and 13 I don't know what they call the school 14 numbers, but it's the School for the Deaf, and 15 they hold a reception here. I think it's a 16 breakfast or a lunch buffet. And they don't 17 have 25 people when they come up here, they 18 might have six, and the value of that 19 breakfast or brunch is more than $10. And 20 they have a lobbyist, which is under the NYSUT 21 umbrella. 22 Is that a violation for the elected 23 official to go to? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Senator Schneiderman. 2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Again, 3 through you, Mr. President, the issue is not 4 how many of them there are, but how many 5 people are invited. If they're inviting 6 members of the Legislature generally, it's not 7 a problem. 8 Again, let me just -- perhaps I can 9 shorten the time span, because the day is late 10 and people have events to attend to back in 11 their districts. 12 The goal here is to say we don't 13 want to interfere with anyone's practice of 14 their duties as a Senator. If you go to an 15 event with a lot of people, you're going to a 16 charitable event, that's fine. 17 But quite frankly, the public is 18 not concerned about that. The public is 19 concerned about the fact that there are 20 occasions in which people are out individually 21 with lobbyists, with people who employ 22 lobbyists who are trying to influence the 23 government, and that we want to make it 24 absolutely clear that in those situations,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 frankly, you just should buy your own lunch. 2 General events where you're meeting 3 constituents -- firefighters, people who are 4 coming with groups, inviting lots of us to 5 events -- not covered, not a problem. 6 But there is an issue that has come 7 up and that the public has raised that 8 requires us, however many exceptions we 9 create, to draw the line somewhere and say 10 that if you are receiving a substantial 11 benefit in a situation in which you can 12 reasonably construe that there's a specific 13 intent to influence just you and your vote, 14 that is now prohibited under the ethics rules. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 16 Senator Bonacic. 17 SENATOR BONACIC: Senator 18 Schneiderman, thank you for your patience. 19 On the bill. 20 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 22 Senator Bonacic, on the bill. 23 SENATOR BONACIC: First of all, I 24 think that we're tackling the issue of ethics

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 is a good thing. And I guess we all agree 2 this is a very small step and much more has to 3 be done. 4 I'll tell you what's disturbing to 5 me with respect to how we got here today. We 6 spent a year last year, the Temporary 7 Commission on Reform, and -- on Rules and 8 Administration Reform -- and we had public 9 hearings and we had all of the good government 10 groups in. And we said, How can we make our 11 process better? 12 And what they said -- they said 13 many things. But the one thing that stood out 14 by all the groups -- Common Cause, the Brennan 15 Center, the League of Women Voters, NYPIRG -- 16 you need a stronger committee system. Your 17 committee system is going to become the filter 18 on which to debate, question, have public 19 hearings, bring experts in, before a bill will 20 get voted out on the floor. 21 And I have to tell you -- and it 22 was six Democrats and three Republicans. And 23 you know what? That committee did good work, 24 because there was a good-faith effort by those

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 members to improve the system. And we put 2 those rules in place, to your credit and our 3 credit. 4 Now, we had a Codes meeting at 5 11:30 yesterday during the Governor's State of 6 the State budget. There are 17 members on the 7 Codes Committee. Five were there. Because 8 they had to make decision, should I blow off 9 the State of the State or should I go to Codes 10 for what I consider very serious 11 legislation -- and complicated. I mean, you 12 read this over and over again to try to 13 extract what's in here to do the right thing. 14 And there were 12 members missing from the 15 Codes Committee. 16 Now, I thought that was 17 disrespectful to the Governor, it was 18 disrespectful to the other members of the 19 Codes Committee. Because I look forward to 20 their input and interaction on this 21 legislation. 22 And we probably could have had a 23 petition for a public hearing. This would 24 have been the right way to do it out of the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 new rules. And I happen to be here 20 years 2 in the Assembly and Senate. I've served under 3 three governors. I have never seen a 4 committee meeting held during a State of the 5 State of a governor's budget. So that was not 6 done right, that's point number one. 7 Now, in terms of the legislation 8 itself, I don't believe it was done in a 9 bipartisan manner. We tried to make it -- 10 work together on it, but it was your baby. It 11 was the Democrat's baby. They wanted to get 12 an ethics bill out there. 13 And, you know, I'm one of those 14 people that feel if you're ethically 15 challenged, if you tend to be corrupt -- I 16 don't care what legislation you pass, you're 17 not going to root out those people that are 18 ethically challenged or corrupt. Okay? 19 Now, let me say, in conclusion, 20 this bill has been criticized by the Brennan 21 Institute, by Common Cause, by Governor 22 Paterson. There are big legal loopholes in 23 this legislation. And as we know, to the 24 credit of the members here, member empowerment

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 is what makes government more transparent and 2 does away with the pay-to-play culture. Not 3 in the other house, where the Speaker decides 4 everything. A bill never gets to the floor if 5 he doesn't want it. 6 But in this house, to your credit, 7 our credit, 38 members can get a bill to the 8 floor and have it debated, regardless of the 9 money of special interests. That's a tribute 10 to you. 11 And I happen to think most of you, 12 mostly all of you are not dysfunctional, are 13 not corrupt, and are generally honest. And 14 we've all been painted with this brush. 15 So we do -- and, you know, when you 16 read the newspaper articles, they say this 17 reform bill is a joke, it's window dressing 18 for the elections. And, you know, it's 19 demeaning. It's demeaning to do something 20 that makes everybody proud. All right? 21 And I will end this by saying we're 22 all going to vote for this, because in today's 23 day and age, if -- if -- one step back. 24 I just want to talk about the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 potential for prosecutorial abuse. That is 2 disturbing here, with the enforcement officer 3 being a Democrat forever. That is very 4 disturbing. And in an age of instant 5 Internet, where they could not only make 6 Republicans target, you have enemies within 7 your own party that want to stain you, it 8 could be done in 24 hours if you have an 9 aggressive enforcer that's partisan, that 10 wants to hurt you. And you won't know what 11 hit you, because in 24 hours everything will 12 be leaked. 13 And this is supposed to be 14 confidential, a lot of this stuff with the 15 Board of Elections. And if there's a whisper 16 to the press, it says you will take 17 appropriate action. What does that mean? 18 There should be criminal sanctions if someone 19 wants to abuse this office to stain people. 20 So I have a real problem with this. 21 I think the Governor is against this bill 22 because he says it doesn't go far enough. And 23 I'm disappointed that we allowed this huge 24 legal loophole in the Assembly with attorneys

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 and clients. We shouldn't have done that. 2 We could have done this much better 3 had we worked together, because you do have 4 good people here that want to do the right 5 thing, that want to root out corruption and do 6 good ethics. And the bad actors, the public 7 will eventually catch up to them and they'll 8 be gone. 9 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 11 you, Senator Bonacic. 12 Senator Diaz. 13 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, 14 Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: On the 16 bill, Senator Diaz. 17 SENATOR DIAZ: On the bill. 18 Today, ladies and gentlemen, damas 19 y caballeros, we are here finally making 20 believe that we are dealing with ethics. We 21 got here in response to those editorial 22 boards -- Times Union, New York Post, Daily 23 News, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera -- El 24 Diario La Prensa, et cetera, et cetera,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 et cetera. Mr. President and ladies and 2 gentlemen, they have been pounding us day and 3 night to come up with something credible, 4 something that will end wrong appearance and 5 that give transparency and full disclosure. 6 And today we are presenting a bill 7 here. Senator Schneiderman said the game is 8 over. Senator Squadron said this is a very 9 difficult bill to swallow by many in this 10 room. 11 So, ladies and gentlemen, if we are 12 going to deal with this and end all the 13 criticism by the editorial boards, we should 14 bring a bill that gives transparency and that 15 makes us fully disclose everything. Not to do 16 that is a mockery. Not to do that is a joke. 17 Not to do that is a farce. 18 And, ladies and gentlemen, damas y 19 caballeros, this bill that we are presenting 20 today is creating what we call a privileged 21 class: doctors, lawyers, and clergies. We 22 are in a privileged class that we are 23 protected from disclosing certain clients. 24 And I'm saying I'm a clergy, and I

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 don't want to be in a privileged class. I 2 don't want to be part of this. I have no 3 problem with the whole world knowing who my 4 clients are. I have a problem telling the 5 people what is the context of the conversation 6 that I have with my client. But I don't have 7 a problem letting the whole world know who is 8 my client and who I'm talking to. 9 So why create a privileged class? 10 By the way, the majority of the criticism that 11 we have is because lawyers don't fully 12 disclose their clients. But we are protecting 13 lawyers here. 14 So if we're going to have 15 transparency, if we are going to have full 16 disclosure, let's have a bill that calls on 17 everyone -- lawyers, doctors, ministers, 18 everyone that wants to be part of this body -- 19 to fully disclose everything. If you don't 20 want to be -- if you don't want to disclose, 21 then don't be part of this body. 22 But if you want to be part of this 23 body, why, why keeping some people, pushing 24 some of us -- some of you that are not in the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 privileged class to fully disclose everything 2 and keeping us, the privileged class, not 3 fully disclosing something? That is wrong. 4 That is unacceptable. 5 So there is no transparency. There 6 is no full disclosure. And tomorrow I might 7 be criticized by whoever because I am voting 8 no on this bill. I would want me and every 9 one of us to fully disclose our clients. To 10 protect lawyers is wrong. And they are the 11 ones that are every day in the papers, the 12 papers pushing lawyers to disclose everything. 13 So you want to be a lawyer? That's 14 okay, be a lawyer. But you want to be part of 15 this body? Disclose everything. Disclose all 16 your clients. You don't have to tell us or to 17 tell the whole world what is the duty or the 18 business that you do with your client, but 19 disclose the client. Why being afraid of 20 letting people know who your clients are? 21 So there is no transparency. 22 Senator Squadron, I repeat, says that this is 23 a very difficult bill to swallow by many in 24 this room. I hope that this bill will also be

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 very difficult to swallow by the editorial 2 boards of this state. 3 This bill should not be passed. 4 Let's send this bill back and have them make 5 everyone, every lawyer, every doctor, every 6 minister that are members of this body to 7 fully disclose their clients and to have a 8 real transparency, and then we vote for it. 9 I want real transparency. I want 10 full disclosure. And I'm asking all of you to 11 vote against this bill. And I'm voting 12 against it. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 14 you, Senator Diaz. 15 Senator Saland. 16 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 17 Mr. President. 18 Would Senator Schneiderman yield, 19 please. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 21 Senator Schneiderman, will you yield to 22 Senator Saland? 23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, I'm 24 glad to yield.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR SALAND: I don't know if 2 this would be helpful; I would ask that he 3 might yield to a series of questions, if 4 that -- 5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: If 6 they're short and there's control, I'd be glad 7 to. 8 SENATOR SALAND: First, if I 9 might, Senator Schneiderman, in the 4201 10 school example that Senator Bonacic gave a bit 11 earlier, you said something to the effect, I 12 believe, that it would not be problematical 13 because there would be invitations to perhaps 14 the entire legislature. And when you look at 15 lines 47 and 48 and 49 on page 11, it 16 basically says 25 people other than 17 legislators, legislative staff. 18 So the fact that we might all be 19 invited doesn't rise to the threshold. It's 20 the number of people who were there and who 21 intended to be there at that event that really 22 will control. I say that not to be 23 confrontational but merely to raise that 24 point.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you. 2 Through you, Mr. President, I see the line 3 that Senator Saland is talking about, and I 4 understand his point. I think that the -- 5 that is one of the examples. I think the next 6 several provisions also would provide 7 exceptions there. 8 But do I understand your point. 9 When I made a reference to all of us being 10 invited to attend, that includes people other 11 than legislators -- 12 SENATOR SALAND: It may well be 13 that there are intended to be 50 people from 14 4201 schools and only 12 showed. 15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. Yes. 16 And I meant to suggest that broad invitation 17 to everyone. Your point is well-taken that 18 this does -- the point here is to say you 19 can't have a couple of individuals seeking to 20 curry favor and the only other people who are 21 invited are the people they're attempting to 22 influence. So the point is well-taken. 23 However, I would also suggest that 24 there are other exceptions to this

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 prohibition, including the general exception 2 that if an event is related to our duties and 3 responsibilities -- 4 SENATOR SALAND: I take no issue 5 with your other comments. Please. That's 6 fine. 7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you. 8 SENATOR SALAND: First, let me 9 thank you. I had the opportunity to speak 10 with you on some of the matters that I am 11 going to probably repeat here today just for 12 purposes of putting them on the record, so to 13 speak. 14 One of my concerns was alluded to 15 briefly by Senator Bonacic, and that was under 16 both the Executive Ethics Commission and the 17 Legislative Ethics Commission there is a duty 18 to sign a nondisclosure statement. And the 19 penalty for a member of the commission or a 20 member of the staff violating that 21 nondisclosure is that they're subject to 22 appropriate action by the relevant commission. 23 I find that to be a matter of 24 concern. And I find it to be a matter of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 concern because let's assume two weeks before 2 a primary, or two weeks before a general 3 election, somebody leaks something of a 4 dubious or spurious nature that taints you. 5 And obviously, within the limited amount of 6 time, whatever your response is and whatever 7 the resolution may be, you may be, as an 8 elected official or a candidate, fatally 9 damaged. And to leave it in the hands of a 10 commission to take appropriation action, to 11 me, is not enough. 12 Now, I've looked at the Penal Law. 13 I don't think it rises to the level of 14 official misconduct. I don't think the 15 elements are there. 16 And what I am asking of you, 17 Senator Schneiderman, is that you very 18 seriously consider and take up with the other 19 house the issue of criminalizing that type of 20 breach. I think it's critically important, 21 and I think there are members here who could 22 well be victimized by somebody who -- of 23 either party, and be it a primary or general 24 election -- could be the victims of that kind

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 of misconduct for which there would be minimal 2 consequences. And I would make that request 3 of you. 4 Bear with me. I just want to get 5 to the relevant pages. 6 Okay, on page 19, there is the 7 reference to the procedure which will be 8 followed by the Legislative Commission on 9 Ethics and Standards. And I'm looking at 10 lines 9 through 14, and it makes specific 11 reference to alleged violations of certain 12 sections of the Public Officers Law and any 13 other matter referred to it by the Assembly or 14 Senate Committee on Ethics or the Joint 15 Legislative Commission on Ethics pursuant to 16 subdivision 3 of this section. 17 And subdivision 3 makes reference 18 to "any other oversight body." And I'm not 19 quite sure what "any other oversight body" 20 might be and wonder if there's somebody here 21 who might be able to just enlighten me as to 22 what those other oversight bodies might be. 23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I'm sorry. 24 Through you, Mr. President. You're on

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 page 19? 2 SENATOR SALAND: I'm looking at 3 page 19, lines 9 through 14. And it describes 4 the procedure under preliminary review. And 5 it says in addition to taking up alleged 6 violations of the Public Officers Law, they 7 can take up any other matter referred to it by 8 either the Assembly or Senate Ethics 9 Committees or the Joint Legislative Commission 10 on Ethics pursuant to subdivision 3. 11 And subdivision 3 also contains 12 reference to another oversight body. And I 13 don't know what oversight bodies exist other 14 than set forth in this same subparagraph. Who 15 else is there that can issue a complaint that 16 this body would have to take up? 17 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I'm sorry. 18 Through you, Mr. President, I'm having a 19 little trouble following along in the text. 20 Where is the reference to other oversight 21 bodies? 22 SENATOR SALAND: I have to go 23 back to line 3D. Okay, that would be on page 24 18, starting at line 48.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Oh, okay. 2 Through you, Mr. President, this reference to 3 the other ethics entities. Under this 4 legislation there are several oversight bodies 5 created. There is an executive body, there is 6 a legislative body, and there is the Lobbying 7 Commission. So referral from another 8 oversight body refers to those commissions. 9 And I think this language 10 essentially duplicates what exists in the 11 existing law. I don't think this is really a 12 change functionally. 13 SENATOR SALAND: So if in fact 14 there's a complaint from the executive 15 commission or the lobbying commission, that 16 matter gets referred to and taken up by the 17 legislative commission? 18 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I think 19 that the -- on page 19, line 12, it specifies 20 "matters referred by the Assembly or Senate 21 Standing Committees on Ethics or the Joint 22 Legislative Commission on Ethics Standards." 23 So I think that encompasses the other 24 oversight bodies.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR SALAND: Again, it refers 2 back to subdivision 3. And that's where the 3 language which I just made reference to is 4 contained. 5 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Excuse me. 6 Through you, Mr. President, I'm having a 7 little trouble with the cross-reference. But 8 let me try and satisfy Senator Saland. 9 But certainly the intention here is 10 only to have reference among the bodies that 11 are involved in regulating ethics in the 12 Legislature, the ethics committees and the 13 oversight bodies created herein. (Pause.) 14 Through you, Mr. President. 15 Senator Saland, I believe that the parameters 16 are set out in a combination of the language 17 that you have cited -- which refers again to 18 the Assembly or Senate Standing Committees on 19 Ethics or the Joint Legislative Commission on 20 Ethics Standards -- and the language on 21 page 17 of the bill that refers to the 22 cross-referral provisions, again creating the 23 authority to refer violations to the Executive 24 Ethics and Compliance Commission or the Joint

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Legislative Commission on Ethics Standards. 2 The only oversight bodies that are 3 covered in this legislation are the oversight 4 bodies that are created in this legislation 5 and the existing Senate and Assembly Ethics 6 Committees. 7 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 8 Senator. 9 We had the opportunity, I'm sure 10 you recall, to discuss what I think is 11 probably just a drafting problem dealing with 12 the preliminary review and the secondary or 13 second-phase review where the second-phase 14 review -- and I think we'll find that at 15 page 20 -- specifically provides that the 16 commission will meet in executive session and 17 the preliminary review has no provision to 18 similar effect. 19 I would hope, by way of technical 20 amendment -- I think in our discussion you 21 indicated that these were all 22 executive-session matters and that there would 23 be an amendment to clarify that preliminary 24 and second phase are in executive session.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. 2 Through you, Mr. President, several other 3 Senators have come forward and offered similar 4 observations. We are working on a chapter 5 amendment to correct several technical 6 matters. 7 Senator Saland called several to 8 our attention, the look-back period with no 9 deadline, and those are matters we're taking 10 up. 11 I also want to add that the issue 12 that has been raised earlier relating to the 13 existence of an enforcement counsel and a 14 special counsel, one a Democrat and one a 15 Republican, we have attempted to address as 16 well by a chapter amendment, proposed chapter 17 amendment that I discussed with Senator 18 Flanagan, who raised this issue with us last 19 night. 20 So I do appreciate the input. And 21 subject to our ability to get agreement with 22 the Assembly, many of these points are points 23 well-taken that we are going to attempt to 24 address.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 2 Senator. And I won't go into the look-back. 3 That's fine, your representation is more than 4 satisfactory. 5 Over on page 29 -- 6 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You're 7 continuing to yield, Senator Schneiderman? 8 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. 9 SENATOR SALAND: Oh, thank you, 10 Mr. President. I'm sorry. 11 Over on page 29 there is language 12 to the effect of after the commission has 13 imposed a penalty, the legislator is still 14 subject to disciplinary action by the 15 appointing authority as otherwise provided by 16 law. 17 When you say "as otherwise provided 18 by law," is that statutory, constitutional, or 19 does it also apply to the rules, regulations 20 and whatever procedures there may be of each 21 house? 22 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I'm sorry, 23 I'm not sure I understand. I think that's a 24 general provision that is carried over from

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 existing law that indicates that this is not 2 to be an exclusive definition of the authority 3 of the body. 4 But what was the line? 5 SENATOR SALAND: I'm on page 29. 6 And if you look at line 3, notwithstanding any 7 other provision of the law to the contrary, no 8 other penalty, civil or criminal, may be 9 imposed for failure to file or for false 10 filing except that the appointing authority 11 may impose disciplinary action as otherwise 12 provided by law. I omitted several things. 13 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Right. I 14 mean, I think that's consistent with the rest 15 of this paragraph, which defines the 16 commission as an agency within the meaning of 17 the State Administrative Procedure Act. I 18 think this is a commission and agency. If 19 there's some other area of law that provides 20 them with authority, this is meant to make it 21 clear that we're not revoking that, that this 22 is not an exclusive provision. 23 But I think that this relates to 24 the question of disciplinary provisions or

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 disciplinary actions provided by law. It's 2 meant to carry over any other disciplinary 3 provisions that are authorized under current 4 law. 5 SENATOR SALAND: If I could call 6 your attention to page 35 of the disclosure 7 form. There's new language added to 8 paragraph 5 in the form of a new paragraph 9 (b). And it reads that if a reporting 10 individual did business with or had matters 11 other than ministerial matters before any 12 state or local agency in the course of any 13 employment, trade, business, profession or 14 occupation engaged in by the reporting 15 individual, list name, address, entity, 16 description of activity. 17 Now, any employment, I would 18 assume, at least at first blush, would mean as 19 a legislator, as a businessperson, as an 20 attorney. So what this would seem to be doing 21 is saying that you have to report any contact 22 you have as a legislator, because it is a form 23 of an employment or occupation, in dealing 24 with any state or local agencies. And if

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 that's not what's intended -- 2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: No, no, 3 no. And through you, Mr. President, I think 4 that's covered by the portion of the sentence 5 that refers to doing business, which the 6 Legislative Ethics Commission has defined 7 as -- that does not include your legislative 8 activity. Doing business means something that 9 you're doing to make money outside of your 10 duties as a legislator. 11 SENATOR SALAND: Senator 12 Schneiderman, just for purposes of the record 13 and peace of mind, could you point out where 14 that in fact is in the law? 15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will -- 16 I don't have that here with me, but we will 17 identify that for you, Senator Saland. 18 But it is certainly not the intent 19 of this to include within the language of 20 "employment, trade, business, profession or 21 occupation" your duties as a legislator. This 22 form relates entirely to outside activities 23 and the disclosure of outside activities. So 24 it is clearly not the intent to include that.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR SALAND: And I appreciate 2 that. And I would hope that if in fact we 3 don't have language in some enabling portion, 4 that it be clarified. Because there's nobody 5 here that doesn't multiple times a week deal 6 with a local agency or, in the case of those 7 outside the City of New York, another level of 8 government. 9 And lastly, on page 37, again on 10 the disclosure form. And Section 8(a) is 11 amended, there's new language combined with 12 existing language, and it reads: 13 "Additionally, if such an individual practices 14 with a firm or corporation and is a partner or 15 shareholder of the firm or corporation, give a 16 general description of the principal subject 17 areas or matters undertaken by such firm or 18 corporation. If the matters undertaken by 19 such firm or corporation were such that no 20 principal subject areas or matters were 21 undertaken, give a general description of the 22 practice or activities undertaken." 23 I would assume that it's clear that 24 if you're not a partner or a shareholder, this

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 provision does not apply to whomever might be 2 filling this application out -- this 3 disclosure form out, excuse me. 4 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: The 5 disclosure. 6 SENATOR SALAND: Yes. 7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. 8 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you very 9 much, Senator Schneiderman. 10 Thank you, Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 12 you, Senator Saland and Senator Schneiderman, 13 for the collegiality. 14 We're getting close to the 15 deadline. Hopefully we won't have to exercise 16 strict restraints. We have about 25 minutes 17 left on the appropriate allocation. 18 Next is Senator Liz Krueger. 19 Senator Krueger. 20 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 21 Mr. President. I'd like to speak on the bill. 22 I apologize; I have a cold. So I hope I 23 consider can be heard clearly. 24 This isn't a perfect bill. I have

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 appreciated all the dialogue back and forth 2 and particularly appreciated Senator 3 Schneiderman's efforts not only in writing 4 this bill and coordinating its movement 5 through both houses but also in the respect 6 that was shown by my colleagues on both sides 7 of the aisle in having serious and substantive 8 questions about what the bill means, what's 9 not there, what is there. 10 And I'll tell you, I have many 11 agreements with the issues that were raised 12 today by my colleagues on both sides of the 13 aisle. I in fact would prefer it to be a 14 broader bill, to have actually have language 15 included in it that was referenced through 16 several of the hostile amendments. I have 17 bills that I have been carrying for years on 18 ethics-related topics that I would have hoped 19 would have been included in this bill as well. 20 But you know what, they weren't. 21 It's not a perfect bill. It's not 22 the full loaf of bread. It's not everything I 23 hope we will get to here in the Legislature. 24 But what it is is a bill that can pass both

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 houses of the Legislature and become law. And 2 I think that that is critical, that even if 3 it's not perfect, it is a good start with 4 important changes. 5 One of my colleagues referenced 6 that if you're not ethical, there's really not 7 that much we can do about it in changing the 8 laws of New York State. Well, I agree. The 9 perfect system is to only elect perfectly 10 ethical people. The dilemma, of course, is 11 the decision of the voters leads to who ends 12 up in office. And each of us can tell our own 13 stories from a partisan or from a personal 14 perspective or from a geographical perspective 15 as to why we each think the voters made 16 mistakes at some point in time and voted the 17 wrong person into office. 18 I, to be honest, don't understand 19 how the people of Massachusetts voted for a 20 new U.S. Senator last night who wasn't the 21 Democratic woman. And yet that was the will 22 of the voters. 23 So we don't control the election of 24 only perfectly ethical people, but what we can

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 do is not only strengthen but also clarify 2 what the expectations of each other are and of 3 what the public is of us as their elected 4 officials. And in fact this law will go a 5 long way toward that goal. 6 I've been here since 2002. I 7 didn't see any other bills moving to the floor 8 to actually be passed into law that would 9 significantly improve the laws around ethics 10 and the standards that are applied. 11 There was a great dialogue that 12 took place about Senator Squadron's bill 13 earlier. It might also not be a perfect bill, 14 but it's clear that it's attempting to clarify 15 what is not okay as far as committing fraud 16 while in office. 17 We can all argue about the details. 18 We could even talk to Senator Squadron later 19 about chapter amendments to further clarify 20 and improve his law. I look forward to doing 21 that. 22 I know that I have other bills I 23 wish were in this package today. For example, 24 I think we should go much further on limiting

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 lobbyist contributions and in requiring 2 improved standards for our campaign finance 3 funds. I've carried a bill for years that 4 would lay out what you could use your campaign 5 funds for, what you couldn't use your funds 6 for, that you couldn't use those for personal 7 purposes. Or, ironically, that you couldn't 8 use them in perpetuity after you had left 9 office or technically, in some cases, after 10 you were deceased. Some campaign committees 11 continue after the named candidate is 12 deceased. I've always been a little confused 13 about that. I think we should deal with that. 14 I understand the arguments over 15 putting limits on what consultants can do and 16 the differences between campaign consultants 17 and lobbyists and the gray area there. I 18 think New York City's law is a good law, and I 19 would like us to move that as well. 20 I don't quite understand an overall 21 obsession about the value of food as part of 22 the discussion today. I don't really think 23 the public is as obsessed with which food will 24 you eat or not eat at a not-for-profit event

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 or other community event. But I think that 2 the public wants to know who are we getting 3 our campaign contributions from and what are 4 the limits. 5 I, for example, would have a much 6 greater problem with the fact that if you are 7 a person who has twenty LLCs, you can give the 8 maximum amount 20 times to one person, and 9 you're really one entity. If you're a 10 corporation, you have to stop at $5,000 per 11 year. But if you're one person who has 20 12 LLCs, you can give $9,500 twenty times over to 13 any individual legislator. I have a huge 14 problem with that, and I wish we dealt with 15 that in this bill. 16 I also carry a bill, and I wish it 17 was included in this package as well, that 18 would deny pensions to public officials 19 convicted of crimes related to their duties. 20 It's a pretty extreme bill, and many of you 21 have shared with me why you have concerns 22 about that. But I would have liked to see 23 that as well. 24 What I do know is that I can go

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 home if we pass this bill and tell people that 2 we did provide much more specific transparency 3 to who's doing business with whom, to who is 4 receiving money from whom, to making sure that 5 whether you're a lawyer or a consultant, if 6 your client is doing business with the State 7 of New York, that is going to be recorded, 8 both by the client on their side of the 9 assignment but also by you if you are being 10 hired to represent them as a lawyer or as a 11 consultant in a matter before the state. 12 I think it would have been fine if 13 we went further on lawyer -- thank you so 14 much. Excuse me. One giant cold in this 15 chamber today. 16 So I would have liked to see us go 17 further on disclosure, on tracking who was 18 doing what in front of state agencies and 19 whether it was a private business assignment 20 or a function of your office as an 21 Assemblymember or a Senator. 22 What we create with this bill is 23 three separate entities that each will have 24 the ability to go forward with regulation and

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 with rules that we will have to live under. 2 So even when I say I wish there were more 3 things in this bill, I know that through the 4 passage of this law and the creation of these 5 oversight entities, in fact I might get my 6 wish through regulation even if it's not 7 explicit in this law. 8 And I know that I am very open to 9 having other ethics bills come to the floor of 10 this house. I'm very open to having campaign 11 finance law, clean election laws come to the 12 floor of this house. 13 And despite the frustrations that 14 perhaps each of us has that we don't see this 15 as a perfect bill -- some may think goes too 16 far; some, like me, don't think it goes far 17 enough -- we can make this a law in New York 18 State and we will have to live under it. And 19 the public will also think you didn't go far 20 enough, but we'll be able to tell them we took 21 this significant step, and they will hold us 22 accountable. Not only for this law, but for 23 what we do after this in moving forward with a 24 broader agenda on ethics.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 And ultimately, yes, I want to be a 2 member of the New York State Legislature where 3 everyone can say, You don't need any of these 4 laws, you don't need any of these 5 clarifications, because every member of the 6 Senate and the Assembly are perfectly ethical 7 people. 8 But you know what they talk about 9 democracy, right, it's not such a great system 10 until you look at the alternatives. And so in 11 fact we need ethics legislation, we need to 12 pass this bill today, and we need to not pat 13 ourselves on the back that much because we 14 have further to go. 15 But again, I've been here since 16 2002. I sat here when the other side of the 17 aisle was in control of the house and didn't 18 move legislation. And you're right, this 19 isn't a perfect bill and it wasn't a 20 100 percent bipartisan discussion -- although 21 we've been discussing this for a lot of 22 months, so I'd be surprised if any of my 23 colleagues didn't know some of the things that 24 we were discussing throughout the process.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 I vote yes, Mr. President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 3 you, Senator Krueger. 4 Senator DeFrancisco on the bill. 5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Just in 6 response to Senator Krueger, I don't think 7 anybody on this side of the aisle is obsessing 8 over food and when you can get a $10 lunch or 9 a $20 lunch. 10 But the problem is I think 11 everybody in this house should be obsessing 12 over the fact that you want to be in 13 compliance with whatever the new rules may be. 14 And this is not something that we're just 15 pulling something out of the air, because if 16 you remember the good State Commission on 17 Public Integrity actually got some records 18 from a couple of lobbyists -- I think one was 19 a lawyer, one was somebody else -- figured out 20 what the total amount of the event was, 21 divided by the number of people there, and 22 attributed a certain amount of money to each 23 legislator that may have showed up and shook 24 hands and got the hell out of there like we

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 normally want to get out. 2 So -- but that clouds your 3 integrity if someone interprets the laws that 4 way, so I think that's why Senator Bonacic was 5 very clear in trying to go through that area. 6 I'd ask Senator Schneiderman -- 7 this is my last area of inquiry -- if he would 8 yield to a question. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 10 Senator Schneiderman, will you yield to a 11 question from Senator DeFrancisco? 12 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, 13 Mr. President, I will yield. 14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Page 25, 15 the first paragraph, paragraph 9, if you'd 16 just read that. 17 And as you're going through it, it 18 basically -- and this is dealing with 19 financial disclosure -- it basically allows 20 the commission to not require disclosure of a 21 part of a financial statement if they find 22 that -- if it was disclosed it would have no 23 material bearing on the discharge of the 24 reporting person's official duties.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 In other words, there's some 2 authority that if you disclose something and 3 it doesn't have to be brought to the public 4 upon application if it's found not to have any 5 bearing on the reporting person's official 6 responsibilities. Is that correct? 7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I 8 believe -- through you, Mr. President, I 9 believe that's correct. Let me just take a 10 moment to confirm it. 11 And I'm pretty confident this is 12 just carried over from existing law, this is 13 in the existing law relating to our disclosure 14 already. 15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I 16 understand that. And I agree with you. 17 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, 18 Mr. President, I believe that's correct. 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: And the 20 point I would like to make, and then I have 21 one last question, is that -- 22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Would 23 you yield for one last question, Senator 24 Schneiderman?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: One last 2 question. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Before I 4 ask that question, I just want to make one 5 point. 6 I guess what I'm concerned about, 7 we have a public disclosure -- or a disclosure 8 form. And admittedly, even under the existing 9 rules, it doesn't have to be closed upon 10 application if it's found not to have a 11 material bearing on your performance of your 12 duties. 13 If it doesn't have a material 14 bearing on the performance of the duties, what 15 in God's name do we have to disclose it in the 16 first place for? Why would we have to have an 17 exception to a disclosure requirement if it 18 has no bearing on your duties? If it has no 19 bearing on your duties, it shouldn't be in 20 there in the first place. 21 So my question, if Senator 22 Schneiderman would yield, is as follows. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 24 Senator Schneiderman has yielded.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: The 2 question is as follows. Can you tell me what 3 relevance it is for the general public in the 4 performance of my duties why there's an 5 additional category of how much money somebody 6 makes that's required under this form? 7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 8 you, Mr. President. Senator DeFrancisco is -- 9 I believe you're referring to the fact that 10 we've added an additional category of 11 disclosure to narrow the ranges that are being 12 disclosed? 13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: And to 14 require a higher range to be disclosed. 15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Well, 16 through you, Mr. President, one of the 17 complaints that has frequently been made is 18 that our disclosure forms really don't provide 19 much information to the public. First of all, 20 because the categories -- which are, you know, 21 $20,000 to $50,000, $50,000 to $100,000, or 22 whatever -- have actually been redacted up 23 till now. This bill changes that. 24 And there's an additional category

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 that is added because of the criticism that at 2 the top end the range was just too vast. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: All right. 4 And would you yield to one other question? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: This 6 is the absolute last question from Senator 7 DeFrancisco. 8 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you. 9 And I appreciate the fact that everyone has 10 allowed Senator DeFrancisco to waive their 11 rights to further questions as well. 12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Okay, but I 13 didn't waive anything. 14 My point is simply this. I'm 15 looking for guidance. What relevance does it 16 have as to whether someone makes $10,000 extra 17 a year or a million dollars extra a year? 18 Isn't the real question who you're dealing 19 with, whether you're compromising your public 20 position? 21 What relevance does it have? It 22 may be nice that the public may want to know, 23 but what relevance does it have in the 24 performance of duties?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Well, 2 through you, Mr. President, the goal here is 3 more disclosure and the goal here is more 4 transparency. And with all due respect, I do 5 think that my constituents certainly would be 6 much more interested in the fact that if I was 7 making money because I have holdings in a 8 particular company -- whether I was making 9 $100 a year or $1 million a year -- as far as 10 their assessment of what my concerns might be 11 about that company or about the sector of 12 industry to which that company belonged. 13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: On the 14 bill. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 16 Senator DeFrancisco on the bill. 17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: The point 18 I'm trying to make is it's obviously very 19 relevant as to how you earn your income and 20 whether that income somehow affects your 21 responsibilities as a legislator. 22 However, the gross amount of income 23 to me is totally irrelevant. The people may 24 want to know a lot of personal information

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 about someone who might want to be a 2 candidate. If you're making no additional 3 income, does that mean, do you draw the 4 conclusion that you're more susceptible of 5 graft or corruption? Or that you're just 6 incapable of making more money and therefore 7 you're less likely to be a good legislator? 8 Or if you make a lot of money -- 9 and by the way, this additional category 10 doesn't affect me, just so you know. If you 11 make a lot of money, if you make a lot of 12 money, what does that mean? That you made the 13 money in an irresponsible or an unethical 14 manner? What does it mean? What does it tell 15 the general public? 16 And I think what it really does, in 17 my judgment, is that it may attempt -- and 18 this is true not only for legislators but 19 people on committees that don't even have an 20 income from those committees, they're doing 21 public service, they have to fill these forms 22 out. Why would I ever want to disclose to the 23 world how successful or unsuccessful I am in 24 my outside endeavors for the luxury of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 becoming a nonpaid commission member? 2 In my judgment, if it's not 3 relevant, it's simply a chilling effect, 4 whether it's too little income or too great an 5 income, for good people to want to get 6 involved in this business, whether it's 7 elected office or appointed office. 8 So I guess the point is I would 9 hope that when we review these items it 10 shouldn't just be the people want to know. 11 Because it should be is it relevant to the 12 performance of the person's duties and does it 13 help to determine whether the person is acting 14 ethically. 15 Thank you, Mr. President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 17 you, Senator DeFrancisco. 18 Senator Craig Johnson on the bill. 19 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank you 20 very much. 21 Will the sponsor yield for a couple 22 of very quick questions? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 24 Senator Schneiderman, do you yield to Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Johnson? 2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: For very 3 quick questions, yes, Mr. President. 4 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank you 5 very much, Senator Schneiderman. 6 Senator Saland raised my issues 7 with respect to the proposed new 5(b) in the 8 disclosure form, but I want to address new 9 language on page 37 of the bill. It's a new 10 language in Section 8(a). I'll wait until you 11 just grab it. It's page 37, Section 8(a). 12 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, I 13 have that, Senator Johnson. 14 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Senator 15 Schneiderman, with respect to the language, 16 the first sentence reads: "If the reporting 17 individual practices law, is licensed by the 18 Department of State as a real estate broker or 19 agent or practices a profession licensed by 20 the Department of Education, give a general 21 description of the principal subject areas or 22 matters undertaken by such an individual." 23 That's old language, nothing's 24 changed; correct?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Correct. 2 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Okay. 3 Will the Senator continue to yield for a 4 question? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Do you 6 continue to yield, Senator Schneiderman, to 7 Senator Johnson? 8 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You 10 may proceed, Senator Johnson. 11 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Senator 12 Schneiderman, I focus now on the new language 13 that's being added. 14 If the nature of the reporting 15 individual's practice or activities were such 16 that -- can I just get a little order? I'm 17 sorry, I can't hear. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: May we 19 have a little quiet? Thank you. 20 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank 21 you, Mr. President. 22 "If the nature of the reporting 23 individual's practice or activities were such 24 that no principal subject areas or matters

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 were undertaken, give a general description of 2 the practice or activities undertaken." Can I 3 get a clarification of what that means? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 5 Senator Schneiderman. 6 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 7 you, Mr. President. This is intended to cover 8 a situation in which the individual is not 9 undertaking -- is not actually engaged in the 10 representation. 11 So the point here is that the first 12 sentence indicates that you have to specify 13 the principal subject areas of matters 14 undertaken by the individual who is actually 15 practicing law. If that individual is not 16 explicitly performing those activities but is 17 nonetheless compensated for it -- if you are a 18 senior partner and you're not actually 19 performing the activities but the activities 20 are nonetheless being performed by your firm, 21 it's intended to cover that circumstance. 22 Which is admittedly a rare circumstance, but 23 it apparently does come up. 24 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Will the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 sponsor continue to yield. 2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. 3 Through you, Mr. President, I will continue to 4 yield. 5 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Senator 6 Schneiderman, I'm not trying to be difficult, 7 I'm just a little befuddled in the sense 8 that -- 9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 10 Through the chair. Would you like Senator 11 Schneiderman to continue to yield? 12 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Oh, we 13 did that already. Yes, Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: No, 15 you didn't. 16 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Of 17 course. Through you, Mr. President. 18 Senator Schneiderman, again, I'm 19 just a little confused by this. If an 20 individual is a lawyer and they are of counsel 21 or an associate at a law firm, and they are 22 a -- maybe they are a general litigator, they 23 are in the litigation department of a law 24 firm, what are they required under this

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 section to do? 2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 3 you, Mr. President, this sentence was added 4 because of an admittedly unusual circumstance 5 which was not being picked up by the 6 preexisting language. The preexisting 7 language refers to the subject matters of 8 areas undertaken by such individuals. So 9 that's if I'm a lawyer, the things that I am 10 working on. 11 There are some circumstances in 12 which lawyers are being compensated for work 13 that goes on in their firm but they as 14 individuals are not engaged in that practice. 15 So that particular odd exception is picked up 16 by this sentence. 17 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: 18 Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to 19 yield? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 21 Senator Schneiderman, will you continue to 22 yield? 23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I will 24 continue to yield.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: You 2 may proceed. 3 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Through 4 you, Mr. President, so a hypothetical is if I 5 am -- or if a Senator or an Assemblymember who 6 is also a lawyer is a partner in a firm and 7 they're a partner in real estate matters, but 8 a tax matter comes in through that partner, 9 that partner is able to bring in business, 10 does no work related to it, but derives 11 compensation from it, this new sentence, this 12 second sentence that we've read, this requires 13 now the disclosure of that matter? 14 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: No. 15 Through you, Mr. President. Again, this is a 16 very narrow provision. This is a provision in 17 which no principal subject areas or matters 18 are undertaken by the individual. This is 19 that rare dream job where you actually don't 20 do anything, but you get compensated for the 21 practice of others -- to which we all aspire 22 when we retire from here. But it was not 23 picked up by the previous language. 24 If you are engaged in any practice,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 any subject matter area, you have to show -- 2 you have to disclose what area you practice 3 in. There are some people who apparently are 4 not engaged in any subject matter area or 5 practice. So if you're a litigator, you don't 6 have to disclose the tax stuff, you disclose 7 that you're a litigator. 8 Apparently there's some people who 9 don't have any subject matter area and yet are 10 receiving compensation for the business of the 11 firm, and that's what this is designed for. 12 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: 13 Excellent. Thank you very much. 14 Mr. President, on the bill. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 16 Senator Johnson on the bill. 17 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: I want to 18 thank you, Senator Schneiderman and Senator 19 Squadron and the leader, Senator Sampson, for 20 sponsoring and leading the effort. 21 Obviously, and hearing the very 22 good questions by my colleagues on both sides 23 of the aisle with respect to this bill, a lot 24 more work has to be done. But you have to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 start somewhere. And if you don't start 2 somewhere, the problems are going to continue 3 to pile up. 4 I'm going to sponsor this piece of 5 legislation. I think we have more ways to go. 6 I look forward to working with both sides of 7 the aisle to craft other pieces of 8 legislation. Clearly, Senator Bonacic, you've 9 indicated that, that we do have places to go, 10 and I look forward to going in those places 11 with you. 12 But for today, I think it's 13 important to pass this piece of legislation to 14 set an example for New York to see. So I'll 15 be voting aye on the bill. 16 Thank you very much, Mr. President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 18 you, Senator Johnson. 19 Senator Flanagan. 20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Would Senator 21 Schneiderman yield to several questions, 22 please. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 24 Senator Schneiderman, would you yield to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Senator Flanagan? 2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Mr. 3 President, I'll be glad to yield to Senator 4 Flanagan. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 6 Senator Flanagan. 7 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you. 8 First, I appreciate the time 9 yesterday and today. I appreciate the 10 dialogue and communication. I do think it's 11 helpful. 12 And a lot of our colleagues have 13 made comments. I feel, like most people, I 14 think what a lot of us are trying to do is 15 figure out how to do the right thing, how to 16 stay out of trouble, and how to interpret some 17 of these provisions so that nobody does get 18 into trouble. 19 So specifically, following up on 20 something Senator Saland had mentioned and I 21 think Senator Johnson alluded to it, can 22 you -- on page 35 of the bill, Section 5(b), 23 which you had an extended discussion with 24 Senator Saland on that provision. I want to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 take a different tack on that. 2 If I interpret this correctly, if I 3 do work as an attorney -- or, for that matter, 4 anybody does work as an attorney -- and I 5 don't do anything with the State of New York 6 but I work on a zoning matter or I work on a 7 permit or I work on something, say, in the 8 Surrogate's Court, it appears to me that I 9 would have to list every single thing. 10 So if you're representing somebody 11 and it's a -- say it's a zoning application 12 and you are dealing with a municipality, you 13 may be dealing with the Health Department, it 14 appears that all of that activity would have 15 to be disclosed. 16 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 17 you, Mr. President. If you are, again, doing 18 business, which means you're doing this to 19 make money, it's not just to help 20 constituents -- if you're doing business and 21 you are appearing in front of an agency, a 22 zoning board, and being paid to do it, for 23 something other than a ministerial matter -- 24 which means something as to which there's

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 discretion -- yes, you do have to disclose 2 that. That's a part of your money-making 3 outside activities. 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And that's 5 clearly what you intend. 6 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. You 7 have to disclose -- so for example, if you are 8 representing a client before a local zoning 9 board in your district and you're being paid 10 to represent them, yes, that is something you 11 have to disclose it. 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay, let me 13 ask this. Going to -- 14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 15 Senator, do you wish Senator Schneiderman to 16 yield? 17 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I'm sorry. 18 Would Senator Schneiderman continue to yield? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 20 Senator Schneiderman, do you yield? 21 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, 22 Mr. President. 23 SENATOR FLANAGAN: If I am 24 representing -- or it doesn't matter, I'm

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 using me as a reference. It could be 2 applicable to a lot of different people in 3 both houses. 4 You're working on a matter in a 5 local government having absolutely nothing to 6 do with the State of New York. What is the 7 relevance of having to make that disclosure? 8 What is achieved by having someone have to do 9 that? 10 Because I can tell you, for anyone 11 who may actively try and practice, this line 12 here with four or five lines, you're going to 13 need a small volume if you're doing any real 14 work. Because you're now going to have to 15 describe every single thing you do that 16 involves government, period. 17 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Mr. 18 President, I don't think you have to describe 19 anything you do that involves government, 20 period. 21 This has to do with representing 22 someone in matters before a state or local 23 agency. So this means you are actually 24 appearing representing someone. It doesn't

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 mean you are filing things, which is a 2 ministerial act. It doesn't mean any other 3 interaction. 4 But yes, Senator Flanagan, if I am 5 representing a client and I am not 6 representing them in front of the state 7 government but in front of the government of 8 the City of New York or of some other local 9 community, I think there is a legitimate 10 concern that those of us who are in positions 11 of authority as public figures should disclose 12 our interactions with local governments of the 13 State of New York as well as with the state 14 government. And that's what this provision 15 requires. 16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: So that would 17 apply to -- Mr. President, would Senator 18 Schneiderman continue to yield? 19 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, I 20 yield. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: He 22 continues to yield. 23 SENATOR FLANAGAN: That would 24 apply to the Health Department?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 2 you, Mr. President. Again, if you are, as a 3 matter of your business, being paid to 4 represent someone in dealing with the Health 5 Department -- say, for example, you were 6 retained by a major hospital to go in and 7 represent them because the Health Department 8 is subjecting them to disciplinary 9 proceedings -- yes, you would have to disclose 10 that. 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: If I could 12 shift gears, Senator Schneiderman. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Would 14 you like Senator Schneiderman to continue to 15 yield? 16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes, I would, 17 Mr. President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 19 Senator Schneiderman? 20 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I continue 21 to yield, Mr. President. 22 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Going back to 23 the discussion you had with Senator Bonacic, 24 you used a phrase that I'd like to go back to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 just to make sure what your intention was. 2 Following the disclosure by the 3 client of a relationship if you're doing 4 business, you used the phrase that there would 5 have to be disclosure if you share in the 6 profits of the firm. Now, in -- 7 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I don't 8 remember the exact context, but yes, one of 9 the principal objectives of the disclosure 10 requirement for those doing business with the 11 state is if I'm being paid directly or if I'm 12 sharing in the profits of the firm, correct. 13 SENATOR FLANAGAN: But relative 14 to the language of the bill, that's not what 15 the bill says. It references partner, 16 manager, director. It doesn't say anything 17 about one who may share in the profits of the 18 firm. 19 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Well, 20 actually -- through you, Mr. President -- on 21 page 13, and I believe this is what I was 22 discussing with Senator Bonacic, the issue of 23 the reportable business relationship does 24 refer specifically to whether or not I or any

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 of us is a proprietor, partner, director, 2 officer or manager or owns or controls 3 10 percent or more of the stock of such entity 4 or 1 percent in the case of a corporation 5 whose stock is regularly traded. 6 So the ownership interest is in 7 fact something that we address directly. 8 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. But 9 your phrase referencing sharing in the profits 10 of the firm -- and I don't mean to split 11 hairs; I think these are important 12 considerations from a very practical 13 standpoint -- someone could be a working for 14 an entity and not be a manager, not be a 15 director, not be a partner, not have ownership 16 of any stock, and yet share in the profits of 17 the firm. 18 So if we're looking at legislative 19 intent, I would go to the plain reading of the 20 statute and say that what you said on the 21 floor would not be applicable unless you fit 22 into one of those specific categories. 23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 24 you, Mr. President. I guess the -- certainly

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 the intent of this language -- and I believe 2 it covers everything when you refer to 3 proprietor, partner, owner, control of 4 10 percent. The point here is that it's a 5 reportable business relationship. If I am 6 hired to do work myself or if I am benefiting 7 from the relationship. 8 This is intended to exclude 9 situations in which someone is a salaried 10 employee and whether there's more money or 11 less money paid doesn't affect my actual 12 compensation. 13 And I believe we've covered 14 everything. But if you have a specific 15 suggestion for something we could add to our 16 chapter amendment, I'd be glad to hear it. 17 But that is certainly the intent. 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. President, 19 would Senator Schneiderman continue to yield? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 21 Senator Schneiderman, do you continue to 22 yield? 23 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Senator Flanagan. 2 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Two other 3 areas. 4 The excess contribution piece -- 5 and we had had a discussion about that. I 6 just want to clarify what that standard is, 7 because we're shifting the burden under this 8 legislation. 9 Now a campaign committee can have a 10 civil penalty of up to $10,000 and a fine as 11 well -- returning money and civil penalties of 12 up to $10,000. 13 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, there 14 are -- 15 SENATOR FLANAGAN: A lot of the 16 members in both houses have periodically 17 gotten letters saying "By the way, we 18 overcontributed, you need to send us money 19 back." Now, we wouldn't know that unless we 20 were informed of it. 21 So it seems that we're shifting the 22 burden to a campaign committee, and there's no 23 way that we'd know. So how does one protect 24 oneself against that kind of problem?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 2 you, Mr. President, you can't be subject to 3 any penalty without notice. 4 In fact, page 53 of the bill, 5 line 42, actually has a mens rea element. If 6 you accept the contribution, it has to be 7 under circumstances evincing an intent to 8 violate such law. So you have to have that 9 intent if you unlawfully accept a contribution 10 in excess of a contribution limitation. 11 Inadvertent, accidental -- not covered here. 12 And in fact, as we discussed 13 before, there is an opportunity to cure that 14 is provided. In fact, under this law, there 15 is this explicit provision that you need a 16 60-day period before -- there must be a vote 17 within 60 days to authorize the investigation 18 to go forward, and within that period of time 19 you can deal with the situation. 20 But it wouldn't matter anyway, 21 because you have to have the intent to violate 22 the law. So if you're not on notice, they 23 can't show you have intent to violate the law. 24 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Last -- if

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Senator Schneiderman would continue to yield. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 3 Senator Schneiderman, do you -- 4 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Last 5 question, Mr. President. Yes, last question, 6 5:09, Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 5:09. 8 SENATOR FLANAGAN: 5:09 doesn't 9 really matter to me. The fact is we're doing 10 this bill because we need to. 11 Going back to what Senator Bonacic 12 had talked about -- and I gave you my specific 13 concerns on the enforcement counsel. I 14 believe it is fair to represent that all 15 candidates, statewide, state officials like 16 us, and all local candidates -- county 17 executives, village mayors, town 18 supervisors -- all of them will be subject to 19 the jurisdiction of this enforcement counsel 20 by virtue of the fact that anything that gets 21 filed with the board, they have jurisdiction. 22 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes. Any 23 of the local entities are required to file, 24 yes, correct.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. And I 2 appreciate the potential draft language and 3 the chapter amendment for the enforcement 4 counsel. 5 I want to be clear, I don't believe 6 that it's a co-enforcement counsel at all. 7 You allow the deputy, maybe, you allow the 8 deputy maybe to comment. So -- 9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 10 Senator Flanagan, are you on the bill now? 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you, 12 Senator Schneiderman. 13 On the bill. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 15 Senator Flanagan on the bill. 16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: This is the 17 kind of thing that gets dicey, because 18 everybody gets antsy when you have to get up 19 and talk about these kinds of things. But I 20 John DeFrancisco and others raised some valid 21 points. 22 By and large, a lot of people, if 23 not the overwhelming majority, are trying to 24 do the right thing. And knowing the rules and

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 knowing guidelines and getting the 2 interpretations correct is extraordinarily 3 important. 4 My concern is with the change at 5 the Board of Elections. I don't believe that 6 this is bipartisan at all. I believe that 7 we're taking a body and making it intensely 8 partisan. And now basically you're going to 9 have a member of the Democratic Party -- and I 10 would feel the same by the way it were 11 Republican, because I think it takes away the 12 balance. You're setting up a scenario now 13 where for certainly the foreseeable future, if 14 not in perpetuity, the enforcement arm of the 15 Board of Elections will be completely 16 controlled by the Democrats. 17 Senator Bonacic talked about 18 potential prosecutorial abuse. I agree. I 19 think the opportunity is there, and I don't 20 think there's enough check and balance. 21 Take the election that just took 22 place in Massachusetts. It wouldn't be beyond 23 the realm of possibility to suggest that 24 somehow in the last couple of weeks of the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 campaign an investigation comes out, and 2 there's nothing in this bill that prevents the 3 release of all that information. An 4 investigation can be started, it can take a 5 long time, not bear any fruit and just be left 6 hanging out there, and damage not only sitting 7 elected officials but people who are 8 candidates. 9 I think it is setting up a system 10 that is way more partisan than it should be. 11 And if there's going to be any further 12 discussions about this, that's the kind of 13 fundamental change that we should be making. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 15 you, Senator Flanagan. 16 Senator Foley on the bill. 17 SENATOR FOLEY: Thank you, 18 Mr. President. 19 I stand here this evening in strong 20 support for this proposed legislation. And 21 coming from a background, Mr. President, as 22 supervisor in the past and also as county 23 legislator, this Senator over a period of 24 years has been part of efforts at the local

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 governmental level to greatly strengthen those 2 local ethics laws. 3 And in so doing, when we strengthen 4 these laws, we regain the public's confidence 5 in those local governments. And by regaining 6 that particular confidence, we then regain 7 people's confidence in the system of governing 8 and in politics in general. 9 I know where I speak from. Prior 10 to being a State Senator, I was the supervisor 11 of the Town of Brookhaven. Brookhaven had a 12 shameful nickname, a shameful nickname that 13 rhymed with Brookhaven. And it was earned 14 over a period of decades where, among other 15 things, the politically favored few received 16 multi-million-dollar no-bid insurance 17 contracts. That did not change until this 18 Senator became the supervisor. And when we 19 went into that particular office, not only did 20 we clean house but we changed the ethics laws 21 of that particular level of government, and in 22 so doing helped to restore the confidence in 23 that particular level of government where 24 today it is once again called Brookhaven.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 That's what we're doing today here 2 in Albany. When I was elected over a year 3 ago, there was a crisis of confidence in this 4 particular Capitol. We heard about 5 dysfunctionality. We heard about the culture 6 of corruption that afflicted some elements -- 7 not all, but some -- in this particular 8 Capitol. 9 Today's passage of this legislation 10 is not a minor step, it's not a step at all. 11 It is a major achievement to have this 12 approved today, full well knowing that more 13 needs to be done in the future. 14 But I can stand here tonight, 15 strongly support this legislation, and say to 16 those cynics who believed that nothing would 17 ever change in this Capitol that within the 18 first year of taking the majority of this 19 particular house, that we are bringing 20 meaningful change to this Capitol, we're 21 bringing substantial change to this Capitol, 22 and I think the proof of the pudding, if you 23 will, will be the fact that this will receive 24 wide bipartisan support tonight.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 So I stand here this evening 2 strongly supporting this legislation. It is 3 in keeping with this Senator's let's say fight 4 over a period of decades now, first in the 5 county legislature, then in the Town of 6 Brookhaven, and now at the state governmental 7 level, to bring ethics reforms that will 8 restore confidence. 9 And I think after tonight's vote we 10 are starting to restore confidence so the 11 public can once again believe again in our 12 democratic, small D, in our democratic 13 institutions. 14 Thank you, Mr. President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 16 you, Senator Foley. 17 And can we have some quiet. We 18 only have a couple more speakers. 19 Senator Griffo. 20 SENATOR GRIFFO: Mr. President, 21 would Senator Schneiderman yield for a quick 22 question or clarification? 23 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Will 24 you yield to a question for clarification from

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Senator Griffo? 2 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, 3 Mr. President, I will yield for either a quick 4 question or a clarification. 5 SENATOR GRIFFO: Thank you, 6 Senator. 7 We've discussed a number of 8 illustrations here relative to the standards 9 portion on page 11, on what's governed by the 10 bill. And as you know, I would think that 11 Legislative Law Article 1A would apply to this 12 bill. 13 So the question is, who else, if 14 you look at that, is governed by this bill? 15 Like for instance under Legislative Law 1A, 16 going down through all of them, it says 17 municipal officers. So the question would be 18 would all local government officials like 19 mayors, town supervisors, county legislators, 20 county execs, also have to comply particularly 21 with the standards portion? 22 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through 23 you, Mr. President. I'm sorry, what line are 24 you on? What page are you on?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR GRIFFO: I'm talking 2 about page 11, the standards portion of the 3 bill, but then talking about Legislative Law 4 Article 1A, which describes the term of 5 "public official," which I think would apply 6 to this particular piece of legislation. It 7 outlines a public official, such as a member 8 of the State Legislature, Governor, Lieutenant 9 Governor, officers or employees of statewide 10 elected offices, officers or employees of 11 state agencies. Then it talks about municipal 12 officials. Now, that is Legislative Law 13 Article 1A. 14 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: I'm sorry, 15 Mr. President, I'm looking at page 11 and I 16 don't know where we are. Could you give me a 17 line? 18 SENATOR GRIFFO: No, no, not 19 specifically on page 11. I'm saying that 20 Legislative Law 1A, which describes the term 21 "public official," would apply to a bill that 22 we're passing like this because it deals with 23 public officials. 24 So I guess the question is, would

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 everything that we have listed here under the 2 standards portion specifically apply to local 3 officials? That's the question. Would they 4 be bound by this too, such as all of the 5 standards provisions that are listed on 6 page 11 that start on line 30 and go all the 7 way through? 8 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Well, 9 excuse me. Through you, Mr. President, this 10 is a big piece of legislation. Certainly as 11 far as the ethics portion goes, the ethics 12 oversight bodies only have jurisdiction over 13 state officials. 14 SENATOR GRIFFO: Understood. 15 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: But I'm 16 not quite -- if that's the question, then the 17 answer is no. 18 SENATOR GRIFFO: And on the 19 standards portion, such as what event they 20 could attend, the widely attended events, the 21 specific aspects that we talked about, nominal 22 gifts, things like that, would that all apply, 23 then, to local officials also? 24 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Through

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 you, Mr. President, no. The legislative 2 ethics rules regulate the Legislature. The 3 executive ethics rules regulate the executive 4 branch of the state government. 5 Unless there's something very 6 explicit which I'm missing, this is -- the 7 ethics portion of this relates to the state 8 government. 9 SENATOR GRIFFO: Okay. Thank 10 you. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 12 you, Senator Griffo. 13 Senator McDonald. 14 SENATOR McDONALD: Thank you, 15 Mr. President. On the bill. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 17 Senator McDonald on the bill. 18 SENATOR McDONALD: I want to 19 thank the people who brought the bill before 20 us. I wish it was stronger. I wish we got to 21 vote on it last year. 22 It's the beginning. It's 23 necessary. But we cannot allow people to be 24 exempt from participating. There's no special

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 classes. I'm going to vote for it. I was 2 going to vote for it last year. I was new, I 3 wanted to make sure I worked within the 4 process. It should not be exempt for any 5 occupation, any region, anybody. And that's 6 in the ethics portion. 7 Additionally, I think we've got to 8 start addressing the fundraising portion. One 9 of the creeping realities in American society 10 is it's become a rich person's game: 11 Politics, government, elected officials. If 12 you don't come from a rich family, you don't 13 get to play. 14 I don't like that. I think we 15 should be restricting personal money coming 16 into campaigns just like we do raising money. 17 This is not going to be the House of Lords, 18 like in England. This is for people. Times 19 have got to change. 20 I'm willing to work across the 21 aisle -- many good people over there working 22 with us -- to look at the exemptions, to look 23 at the fundraising, to look at the special 24 category of people. I was told that of the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 100 U.S. Senators, they're all millionaires, 2 or close to. What has this country become? 3 Everything we're against. 4 I live in Saratoga County, where 5 the Battle of Saratoga was fought so elitists 6 don't rule -- and now we're slipping into it. 7 So I ask with great passion that we 8 start making this a populist house. Not 9 because of a particular occupation -- a 10 person's occupation should have nothing to do 11 with it -- but to let everybody in here, and 12 to stop controlling politically incorrect 13 people from participating. Working-class 14 people can come in here. And not to wink when 15 somebody comes from that wealthy family, that 16 politically powerful family who can take care 17 of it behind the scenes. Which is becoming so 18 relevant. 19 So there's a lot of challenges. 20 Let's really do it. We've been talking about 21 it for a long time. This is a good beginning, 22 but we've got a very long ways to go. 23 Something is better than nothing right now, 24 but don't applaud too much, because we haven't

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 got to the red meat. When we do that, then 2 you can applaud. 3 And I'll be happy to show people 4 where I think the red meat is, whether it's 5 ethics or whether it's disclosure or whether 6 it's the whole let's not make this the elitist 7 house that it seems to be becoming. 8 Thank you. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 10 you, Senator McDonald. 11 Are there any other Senators 12 wishing to be heard? 13 Hearing none, the debate is closed. 14 Please ring the bells. The 15 Secretary will ring the bells. 16 Read the last section. 17 THE SECRETARY: Section 37. This 18 act shall take effect July 31, 2010. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Call 20 the roll. 21 (The Secretary called the roll.) 22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 23 Senator Schneiderman, to explain his vote. 24 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Mr. President. 2 I am pleased, ladies and 3 gentlemen -- shhh, shhh, shhh, shhh, shhh. 4 We're done here tonight. I'm pleased we're 5 done here tonight. I'm pleased what we're 6 passing what I think in retrospect will prove 7 to be a truly historic bill to expand ethics, 8 to improve our campaign finance laws, to make 9 this a more transparent and really more 10 effective and efficient Legislature. 11 Let's never forget that in trying 12 times, as in all times, we to spend every 13 taxpayer dollar wisely. Bad government, pay 14 to play, corrupt government costs our 15 constituents money. 16 I'm pleased that everyone -- with 17 everyone's comments tonight, really, even 18 those who have raised concerns about the 19 bill -- and I especially want to note that a 20 lot of my colleagues from the other side of 21 the aisle have spoken with me, have pointed 22 out problems that we have to correct, have 23 offered solutions to the problems. And I hope 24 that this is indicative of what will come this

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 year. 2 I am confident that virtually 3 everyone in this room on both sides of the 4 aisle wants this to become a more ethical 5 state, a state in which the public has more 6 confidence in this Legislature and in all 7 elected officials. And I really am honored by 8 the fact that a lot of my colleagues on the 9 other side of the aisle are continuing, even 10 as we speak tonight, to point out issues, 11 problems, and raise concerns. 12 I look forward to working with all 13 of you to move to the next stage, pass further 14 reforms to our campaign finance laws, to other 15 aspects of our ethics laws, and to moving this 16 state forward to return to its prior state as 17 really a model for all of America. 18 Thank you, Mr. President. I vote 19 yes. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: Thank 21 you, Senator Schneiderman. 22 Announce the results. 23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 59. Nays, 24 1. Senator Diaz recorded in the negative.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: The 2 bill is passed. 3 Senator Klein, that completes the 4 controversial reading of the calendar. 5 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 6 may we please return to motions and 7 resolutions. I have a motion on behalf of 8 Senator Huntley. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 10 Returning to motions and resolutions. 11 Senator Klein. 12 SENATOR KLEIN: I move that the 13 following bills be discharged from their 14 respective committees and be recommitted with 15 instructions to strike the enacting clause: 16 Senate Numbers 1175 and 1646. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: So 18 ordered. 19 Senator Klein. 20 SENATOR KLEIN: Would you please 21 recognize Senator Padavan. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 23 Senator Padavan. 24 SENATOR PADAVAN: Yes, thank you,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Mr. President. 2 I move that the following bills be 3 discharged from their respective committees 4 and be recommitted with instructions to strike 5 the enacting clause. That's Senate Bill 1505, 6 by Senator DeFrancisco, and 2658, by Senator 7 Volker. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: So 9 ordered. 10 Senator Klein. 11 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, I 12 just want to announce after session there will 13 be an Elections Committee Meeting in Room 332, 14 followed by an Environmental Conservation 15 Committee meeting. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: 17 Immediately after session there will be a 18 meeting of the Elections Committee in 19 Room 332, followed by a meeting of the 20 Environmental Conservation Committee 21 thereafter. 22 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, is 23 there any further business at the desk? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: There

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 is no further business at the desk, 2 Senator Klein. 3 SENATOR KLEIN: There being none, 4 Mr. President, I move we adjourn until Monday, 5 January 25th, at 3:00 p.m., intervening days 6 to be legislative days. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT BRESLIN: There 8 being no further business to come before the 9 Senate, on motion, the Senate stands adjourned 10 until Monday, January 25th, at 3:00 p.m., 11 intervening days being legislative days. 12 (Whereupon, at 5:31 p.m., the 13 Senate adjourned.) 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.