Public Hearing to Discuss Economic Development Issues and Potential Partnerships Between the Native American Nations and Tribes with New York State

1 BEFORE THE NEW YORK STATE SENATE

STANDING COMMITTEE ON STATE-NATIVE AMERICAN RELATIONS 2 ----------------------------------------------------- 3 PUBLIC HEARING 4 TO DISCUSS ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ISSUES AND

POTENTIAL PARTNERSHIPS BETWEEN THE NATIVE AMERICAN 5 NATIONS AND TRIBES WITH NEW YORK STATE

----------------------------------------------------- 6 7 Van Buren Hearing Room A - 2nd Floor

Legislative Office Building 8 Albany, New York 12247 9 September 21, 2011

10:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. 10 11 PRESIDING: 12 Senator George D. Maziarz

Chair 13 14 SENATE MEMBERS PRESENT: 15 Senator Patrick M. Gallivan 16 Senator Timothy M. Kennedy 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 SPEAKERS: PAGE QUESTIONS 2 Richard Nephew 10 23

Chairman, Seneca Nation Council 3 David Kimelberg

CEO, Seneca Holdings 4 The Seneca Indian Nation 5 Ray Halbritter 39 47

Representative 6 The Oneida Indian Nation 7 Ron LaFrance, Jr. 55 65

Chief 8 The Saint Regis Mohawk Indian Nation 9 10 ---oOo--- 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Good morning, everyone. 2 It is about ten after ten, and we're going to 3 get started. 4 I'm Senator George Maziarz, Chairman of the 5 Senate Select Committee on State-Native American 6 Relations. 7 I would like to call this inaugural meeting 8 of the Senate Select Committee to order. 9 This is, I think, a very historic event. It 10 marks the first official meeting of the first-ever 11 legislative committee on this very important issue. 12 Let me begin by thanking my colleagues, 13 Senator Tim Kennedy, and Senator Pat Gallivan, for 14 being here today, and for being very supportive of 15 the mission of this Committee. 16 I also want to thank the Native American 17 nations for their cooperation and support of this 18 committee since it was formed this past June. 19 There are nine nations that are officially 20 recognized by the State of New York. They are as 21 follows: The Cayugas, the Oneidas, the Onondagas, 22 the Mohawks, the Senecas, the Shinnecocks, the 23 Tonawanda Band of Senecas, the Tuscarora, and 24 the Unkechauge. 25 Each of these nations has a unique history 1 and culture, and they are a vital part of the 2 economy and social fabric of our state. 3 This committee was formed in order to correct 4 a wrong that has existed in this state for far too 5 long; namely, the fact that there was no official 6 State forum to discuss Native American issues, 7 listen to their concerns, offer legislation, and 8 promote cooperation and real solutions. 9 There are currently about 10 106,000 Native Americans living in New York State, 11 with over 32,000 living on native lands. New York 12 currently ranks ninth in terms of native population 13 among all of the states. 14 As a result of the large population of 15 Native Americans in our state, and the large. 16 Effect that these nations have on New York 17 State economy, I believe there is a definite need 18 for this Committee. 19 Our mission statement for this Committee is: 20 To enable members of the State Senate to 21 become informed and educated about the Indian 22 nations located here in New York; 23 And, to establish a formal avenue for 24 dialogue between State-elected officials and native 25 peoples; 1 And, to improve understanding and cooperation 2 between the State and those native peoples. 3 Today we take the first step in accomplishing 4 our mission. We will focus on three main goals. 5 First: Allowing each of the Native American 6 nations who are in attendance today to address the 7 Committee, and provide a brief overview of their 8 history and culture; 9 Second: We have asked each to provide an 10 overview of their current economic development 11 activities, and their impact on the economy of each 12 nation, as well as upon the State of New York, and 13 the area of the state that they are located; 14 Lastly: We will hear about new economic 15 development projects that are under consideration by 16 each nation, and discuss potential partnerships with 17 the State of New York. 18 In short, we are here to promote 19 understanding and cooperation. Everyone here knows 20 that our economy is struggling now, and we need to 21 do all that we can to get it back on track. 22 The economic impact of the activities that 23 native nations have makes them some of the largest 24 employers in our state. Therefore, it is more 25 important now than it ever has been, to promote 1 economic-development partnerships to create jobs for 2 our citizens, and for sovereign native peoples as 3 well. 4 Today we will hear from the leaders of 5 several Native American nations. 6 I want to welcome: Chairman Richard Nephew, 7 the Seneca Nation Council; 8 Dave Kimelberg, the CEO of Seneca Holdings; 9 Representative Ray Halbritter, of the 10 Oneida Indian Nation; 11 Chief Ron LaFrance, Jr., of the 12 Saint Regis Mohawk Indian Nation; 13 And, Chairman Randy King, of the 14 Shinnecock Indian Nation. 15 I would ask that each speaker try to confine 16 their presentation to 15 minutes. And, following 17 each presentation, we will allow the members of this 18 Committee to ask any questions. 19 Thank you very much. 20 I would just also like to note for the 21 record, that several of the members of this 22 Committee, Senator Ruth Hassell-Thompson, has 23 staff -- senior staff in attendance, as does 24 Senator John DeFrancisco. 25 And, with that, I will ask my colleagues if 1 they would care to make some sort of an opening 2 statement. 3 Senator Gallivan. 4 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you, Chairman. 5 Good morning, everybody. 6 I too believe that there is a need for this 7 Committee. It's kind of amazing that nothing like 8 this has taken place for all of these years, that, 9 the Indian nations and New York State residents have 10 co-existed within our boundaries. 11 I view this as a mechanism to facilitate 12 discussions between the State, the Indian nations 13 and tribal leaders, on issues in which the State and 14 Indian nations and tribes share our common interest 15 or jurisdiction. 16 I would like to welcome all of you here to 17 Albany. I look forward to hearing the testimony 18 from the different nations. And, I certainly look 19 forward to advancing our common interests, and 20 moving this state and our relationships forward. 21 Thank you. 22 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, Senator. 23 Senator Kennedy. 24 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you very much. 25 Good morning. 1 This is a historic occasion, that this 2 meeting is taking place today. 3 New York State has a long history of 4 cooperation with the Seneca Nation in 5 Western New York, and all of our Native American 6 tribes. 7 I'm proud to be a part of this new State 8 recognition of that cooperation, as we hold the 9 first public hearing of the Senate Standing 10 Committee on State-Native American Relations. 11 Our history intertwines and our cultures 12 overlap, and that adds to the rich cultural history 13 of Western New York, and in New York State. And it 14 provides an important boost as we continue to build 15 on the collaboration and cooperation that has 16 benefited our state. 17 In Western New York, the Seneca Nation is an 18 important contributor to our regional economy. This 19 path of economic cooperation shared between 20 Western New York and the Seneca Nation stretches 21 years and years in the past. 22 Through this economic cooperation, we have 23 already accomplished some great things, and 24 continued cooperation will help advance our 25 collective goal of revitalizing the Western New York 1 economy. 2 The Senate Standing Committee on 3 Native American Relations presents an opportunity 4 for us to foster an open dialogue, which is 5 essential to our future relationships with our state 6 Native American tribes. And it is this open 7 dialogue that will help our state and the 8 Native American tribes mend and strengthen the bonds 9 that run between us. 10 I was pleased to learn about recent meetings 11 between representatives of the Cuomo Administration 12 and representatives of the Seneca Nation of Indians, 13 including President Robert Odawi Porter. 14 A productive and consistent dialogue between 15 New York State and the Seneca Nation of Indians is 16 important to both parties. And I am hopeful it will 17 help to resolve many of the outstanding issues 18 facing both the Seneca Nation and New York State. 19 I expect this Committee to foster that 20 communication. 21 And, I'm sure it will, with the 22 great Chairman. 23 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, Senator. 24 I've also been told that we have some 25 senior staff from Senator Little's office here, 1 also. 2 With that, we will ask our first witness, 3 Chairman Richard Nephew, of the Seneca Nation 4 Council; and, Dave Kimelberg, CEO of Seneca Holding 5 Company. 6 Chairman Nephew, and CEO Kimelberg. 7 Thank you very much for being here today. 8 Senator Young is also represented here today. 9 Richard. 10 RICHARD NEPHEW: Thank you. 11 Good morning. 12 [Speaks in native language.] 13 What I just said in the Seneca language is, 14 that, I'm thankful that all are well here today, and 15 that you're able to be here, and meet with us, 16 everyone here in the room. 17 This is a very historic meeting, and I'm 18 honored to represent the Seneca Nation, and be here 19 to testify before your Committee. 20 And, I would like to thank, Senator Maziarz, 21 and colleagues, for forming this very important 22 committee. 23 I think we all realize that conflict is much 24 more costly than cooperation. And, we hope this is 25 a very positive step forward, as we move forward, 1 and do what's best for Western New York and 2 New York State and the Seneca Nation. 3 I believe 15 minutes is far too short, but, 4 we'll do our best here. And, in the interest of 5 time and accuracy, I'll read my statement now. 6 I'll be glad to elaborate on it, on anything, 7 later on. 8 My name is Richard Nephew, and I serve as 9 chairman of the Seneca Nation Council. And I'm 10 joined here, by Dave Kimelberg, chief executive 11 officer of Seneca Holdings. 12 I'm going to briefly provide you with 13 information about the Seneca Nation, and our 14 history, and of our dealings with New York State. 15 David will then speak about the 16 Seneca Nation's economic enterprises and our 17 regional impact. 18 Today's committee hearing is a historic 19 event. I applaud your efforts, Senator Maziarz, in 20 creating this committee. 21 I too believe there is an urgent need for a 22 productive dialogue between the State of New York, 23 and the Indian nations and tribes located within the 24 state's boundaries. 25 For too long, the State has attempted to make 1 decisions that impact the Seneca Nation, and other 2 native peoples, without having an adequate 3 understanding of our history and our culture, and of 4 our sovereign treaty rights. 5 Let us hope that this is the beginning of a 6 long and productive dialogue that will benefit my 7 people and yours. 8 I also believe that it is important that you 9 have chosen to have economic development as the 10 topic of the Select Committee's first hearing. 11 As you know, the Western New York economy has 12 long been in decline. People and families are 13 suffering, and job creation is sorely needed. 14 Leadership is sorely needed. 15 For more than a thousand years, the 16 Seneca people have lived in what is now known as 17 "Western New York." We have witnessed, experienced, 18 and endured many changes over the centuries. And 19 today we are a proud nation, with a rich history 20 and -- rich culture, and a promising future. 21 The Seneca Nation of Indians is the largest 22 of six indigenous nations that comprise 23 The Six Nations Haudenosaunee Confederacy, also 24 known as "Iroquois." 25 Following the American Revolutionary War, we 1 lost most of our aboriginal lands in a 2 land-for-peace deal that secured the title to the 3 lands we now occupy. 4 Most of our 8,000 citizens live on or near 5 our Allegheny and Cattaraugus territories in 6 Western New York. 7 Combined with our Oil Springs, Buffalo Creek, 8 and Niagara Falls territories, we own, and retain 9 full jurisdiction, of over 50,000 acres. 10 In 1794, the Seneca Nation, along with other 11 nations of The Six Nations Haudenosaunee 12 Confederacy, signed a treaty with the newly 13 established United States of America, recognizing 14 the sovereignty of the Seneca Nation, and 15 establishing peace between our nations. 16 We were promised, in the Canandaigua treaty 17 of 1794, that we would forever be secure in the free 18 use and enjoyment of our lands. 19 There have been many challenges in our 20 relationship during the last 216 years, but our 21 treaty relationship with the United States continues 22 today. 23 The United States recently fulfilled one of 24 its obligations under the Canandaigua treaty by 25 sending our share of $4,500 worth of cloth that is 1 distributed annually to the Haudenosaunee people. 2 Unfortunately, many of the promises made to 3 us by the United States have either remained 4 unfulfilled or have been broken, particularly the 5 obligation to protect our nation from the predatory 6 behavior of New York State, and its officials, over 7 many years. 8 In the last two centuries, the Seneca Nation 9 has had to deal with repeated efforts by the State 10 to take over our lands, to impose taxation, commerce 11 on our lands, and even to take control over our 12 children to educate them. 13 For many years, our very identity as a 14 distinct indigenous people was threatened. 15 Let me share some recent history. 16 In 1954, New York State pressured us into 17 signing an illegal right-of-way agreement, to enable 18 the New York State Thruway to cross our Cattaraugus 19 territory near Silver Creek, for which we received 20 inadequate compensation. 21 In 1961, New York State actively supported 22 the taking of 10,000 acres of our 23 Allegheny territory, by the United States, for the 24 Allegheny Reservoir and the Kinzua Dam. 25 In 1976, the State coerced us into allowing 1 the Southern Tier Expressway to cross our 2 Allegheny territory, by making promises, to this day 3 remain unfulfilled. 4 And, now, New York State is breaking its 5 promise of gaming-machine exclusivity that it made 6 to the Seneca Nation in 2002, when we entered into a 7 gaming compact, by allowing casino-like machines, 8 and marketing them, in racinos, now called 9 "casinos," and discussing adoption of a 10 constitutional amendment that would allow 11 commercialized gaming near our existing facilities 12 and our promised exclusivity zone. 13 Despite these repeated challenges, we refuse 14 to relinquish our treaty-protected guarantees for 15 political and economic sovereignty. 16 We continue to look ahead to see what 17 opportunities lie ahead of us. 18 There is much for the Seneca Nation to be 19 proud of in terms of our economy. 20 In a short period of time, we have made 21 ourselves into the fifth largest employer in 22 Western New York, supplying nearly 6,000 high-paying 23 jobs, with full benefits. 24 We invested over -- somewhere near 25 900 million in construction projects over the last 1 9 years. 2 We operate a 1. billion economy through your 3 government, public and private-sector ventures, and 4 our economic benefit stay in Western New York. They 5 are not paid out to stockholders around the country, 6 or around the world. 7 Our future is here. We have committed to 8 investing in Western New York, and an interest in 9 seeing the area economy grow and improve. 10 Every Friday, the payroll of the 11 Seneca Nation and our gaming enterprises contributes 12 to the Western New York economy. We give 13 New York State an economic shot in the arm every 14 Friday. Those dollars circulate in 15 Western New York, and for the most part, stay in the 16 region. 17 Seneca Nation has recently begun a 18 long-term effort to diversify our economy. 19 We understand that tobacco and gaming are not 20 future-growth industry we can rely on solely. We 21 also recognize that we are not an island. 22 That is why, this past June, the 23 Seneca Nation of Indians invited a number of 24 public-sector and quasi-public-sector economic 25 development groups, from Western New York and 1 Pennsylvania, to discuss how we can work 2 collaboratively. 3 We recognize the outreach, and we recognize 4 that outreach and collaboration are the keys to 5 success. 6 The Seneca Nation of Indians is committed to 7 continuing our role as a significant catalyst for 8 economic growth in the region. A financially and 9 economically vibrant Seneca Nation of Indians will 10 benefit the region as a whole. 11 It is our hope that we can find the right 12 partners who can help us advance the right strategy. 13 And, in partners, you know, we hope that this 14 Committee, and all branches of the New York State 15 government, will also be those partners. 16 We have been here for a very long time, and 17 we're always going to be here. We're not going 18 anywhere. We don't have the luxury, or the -- even 19 the opportunity, to move out of state, to move to 20 another country, to develop our economic engines 21 that we need to develop and strategize for our 22 future. 23 We don't have that luxury to move away. 24 We're always gonna here. And, we know that 25 we need to reach out to, our neighbors, our 1 partners, in New York State, and develop that 2 winning partnership. 3 As I said at the beginning, conflict is 4 always much more expensive than cooperation, and, 5 we're looking for that, moving into the future. 6 I'll now ask David Kimelberg, chief executive 7 officer of Seneca Holdings, to provide some detailed 8 information about the Seneca Nation's economy, and 9 our efforts to grow and diversify our economic 10 interests. 11 DAVID KIMELBERG: Thank you, Richard. 12 [Speaks in native language.] 13 Good morning, Senator Maziarz, and members of 14 the Select Committee. 15 Like Chairman Nephew, I'm pleased to have the 16 opportunity to speak with you today. 17 My name is David Kimelberg. I am a citizen 18 of the Seneca Nation, and the chief executive 19 officer of Seneca Holdings, which is the 20 Seneca Nation's private equity investment and 21 holding company. 22 I returned to the Seneca Nation two years 23 ago, after over a decade of working in the 24 private equity and venture capital investment 25 industries. 1 I came back to serve the Seneca Nation, and 2 to help execute on what I saw as a tremendous 3 opportunity to build and diversify the 4 Seneca Nation's economy. 5 Two years later, we have accomplished far 6 more than I expected. And, I anticipate that this 7 success will continue to grow rapidly. 8 The Seneca Nation's largely known for its 9 gaming and tobacco industries. These industries, as 10 Chairman Nephew has indicated, have created enormous 11 amounts of revenue and jobs in the Western New York 12 region. 13 I just wanted to underscore that. 14 We have created an over $1 billion a year 15 economy, and we're the fifth largest employer in 16 Western New York, which came very fast. 17 What may not be as widely known, is that the 18 Seneca Nation's economy is rapidly evolving, to 19 include a diverse number of other industries. 20 Seneca Holdings, the company that I lead, is 21 leading that charge with great success, and I'd like 22 to share some of that with you. 23 The Seneca Nation established Seneca Holdings 24 two years ago, with the express purpose of 25 diversifying the Nation's economy beyond gaming. 1 This decision was not made lightly. Instead, 2 it was backed up by significant resources. 3 The Nation committed $28 million of capital 4 in Seneca Holdings' first five years of operations. 5 We have had a tremendous amount of success 6 during Seneca Holdings' first two years. 7 This success benefits, both, the Nation, and 8 the entire Western New York region, a region that is 9 sorely in need of economic development and capital 10 investment. 11 Starting with nothing, Seneca Holdings has 12 built five successful operating subsidiaries and 13 diverse industries, such as, construction, 14 telecommunications, broadcasting, green energy, and 15 others. 16 All of these companies are based on 17 Seneca Nation territories. They are cutting-edge 18 organizations, led by sophisticated business people. 19 These companies have created millions of 20 additional dollars in revenue, and jobs for both 21 natives and non-native. 22 In addition to our operating subsidiaries, we 23 have invested significant capital in other promising 24 businesses, most of which are located in 25 Western New York. 1 We are investing in the region, with a 2 purpose of building companies and revenues, and 3 returns for the Seneca Nation and our people. 4 We invest in Western New York because it has 5 been our home for over 1,000 years. 6 We will always be here. 7 We are truly committed to the region like no 8 other. And unlike multi-national companies that 9 come and go through the region and the state, we 10 will not relocate, and our expanding dollars stay 11 here. 12 During my first two years, after coming back 13 to the Seneca Nation, and helping to build 14 Seneca Holdings, one thing has become apparent: The 15 Western New York business community wants to build 16 Western New York's economy alongside the 17 Seneca Nation. 18 This community understands that a rising tide 19 lifts all boats, and that the Seneca Nation can be a 20 strong and valuable tidal catalyst. 21 For example: The Seneca Nation and its 22 companies have valuable and unique business 23 advantages, particularly in the federal sector. 24 Seneca Holdings is targeting federal 25 contracting work, and one of our subsidiaries is 1 closing in on a significant federal contract. 2 However, we can't do all this work alone. 3 Our strategy is to partner with our 4 businesses, preferably in the Western New York 5 region, to help us to complete this work, and expand 6 our operations. 7 This is truly a win-win, the Seneca Nation 8 and our neighbors. 9 The Seneca Nation businesses also have unique 10 access to certain federal lending initiatives 11 targeting Indian country. We have already utilized 12 these initiatives to help to build our company. 13 In an environment of tight credit, these 14 programs are incredibly valuable for our companies, 15 and our partners. 16 The Seneca Nation and Seneca Holdings are 17 quickly becoming an economic, diversification 18 success story. Through Seneca Holdings, we are 19 expanding our success beyond gaming and tobacco, 20 into mainstream industries. Again, this benefits 21 everyone. 22 The Western New York business community is 23 beginning to understand the unique attributes that 24 the Seneca Nation and its businesses bring to the 25 table. 1 When I meet with Western New York business 2 leaders, which is often, they're excited to get 3 involved, and work together, to build the regional 4 economy. They want the tide to rise. 5 And, they understand that the Seneca Nation 6 represents one of the best ways to accomplish this. 7 Thank you for your time. 8 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you very much, 9 Chairman Nephew, and Mr. Kimelberg. 10 Again, we appreciate you being here. 11 Just, if you could -- Richard, my area of 12 questioning is in the area of Kinzua Dam. 13 And, could you just explain to us, where the 14 Nation is, at this time, with that development? 15 I know that I have appeared at hearings, 16 along with the Senecas. I think it's a great 17 opportunity for Western New York; for the 18 Southern Tier of Western New York, and also for the 19 Seneca Nation. 20 Could you would just brief us on where we're 21 at with that? 22 RICHARD NEPHEW: Okay, to give you a short 23 history first, and then what we had hoped to do. 24 It goes back many years, I believe, to at 25 least the 1940s, where there was an interest in 1 building a dam, ostensibly, for flood control. 2 That's the story that we had back in the eras 3 of the '40s and '50s. 4 We didn't know, at the time, it was never 5 explained to us, that it was also about generating 6 electricity. 7 There were some very murky perspectives on 8 that, but, nonetheless, the dam was built. And, 9 resulting in the flooding of approximately 10 10,000 acres of very prime homeland for the Senecas. 11 Completed early in the '60s. And, in more 12 recent years -- well, at that time, there was a 13 50-year electric-generating license given to 14 First Energy Corporation. It's had it all these 15 many years. 16 And, in a few short years, that license is up 17 for renewal. 18 We've stepped into the process. 19 From our point of view, we think, it's 20 another issue that we're very much used to, is, 21 trying to make lemonade out of lemons. And, it 22 impacts us greatly. 23 That reservoir is there. It's flooded our 24 lands, but, it's rendered the lands, not just 25 underneath, but the lands associated with the 1 ebb-and-flow of the manipulated water levels of the 2 dam. 3 So, even though there is a lot of our land 4 that's not under water, there is a certain elevation 5 that we can't live on, we can't build on, we can't 6 grow crops on, because, you know, we're not in the 7 control of that water level. 8 But, we believe, who better than to operate 9 that facility, than us. 10 And we -- they want to take a -- First Energy 11 wants to take a very superficial response to 12 renewing their license. 13 We've asked for many more studies, to study 14 the economic impact, the environmental impact, and 15 all of the impacts that have on, not only our land, 16 but also lands of New York State. 17 So, what we hope to do is, not only gain the 18 license, but to explore ways to increase the 19 electrical generating capacity. And, in doing so -- 20 you know, the Seneca Nation, we're looking at it as 21 a business decision -- any extra electricity that we 22 can generate for our people. 23 Some estimates have been done that -- early 24 estimates, that, if we can increase that capacity, 25 we could, not only supply more electricity to our 1 people, at a discounted rate, but, also, there would 2 be more left over, that we may be able to use for 3 more economic-development uses. 4 So -- and, again, you know, we're looking 5 at -- for a very positive win-win situation, 6 economically, for the Seneca Nation and New York 7 State, if we are to acquire that license. 8 SENATOR MAZIARZ: For the information of the 9 people that are here that may not be familiar with 10 this, this -- the reservoir is actually located in 11 the state of New York. And, the 10,000 acres that 12 were flooded of Seneca territory, were 13 Seneca territory within New York. But the dam 14 itself is actually located just over the border in 15 Pennsylvania. 16 Is that correct? 17 RICHARD NEPHEW: That's correct. 18 SENATOR MAZIARZ: That's correct. 19 And the company that currently has the 20 license to operate the dam, and has had the license 21 for many years, is an Ohio-based company. 22 RICHARD NEPHEW: That's right. 23 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Right. 24 So, here we have a Seneca/New York resource, 25 going to create, I think, about 600 -- a little over 1 600 megawatts of hydropower -- clean, cheap 2 energy -- in Pennsylvania, that's, really, an Ohio 3 company is profiting from it. 4 RICHARD NEPHEW: That's correct. 5 SENATOR MAZIARZ: If, in the relicensing 6 process, if the State of New York were to join the 7 Seneca Nation, and support the Seneca Nation's 8 application to operate the Kinzua Dam, would -- and 9 I don't mean to put you on the spot here. I realize 10 you have a Council. You don't make decisions in a 11 vacuum. -- but, would you be open to doing, 12 reserving some of that power for economic 13 development, maybe off of the Seneca Nation, in some 14 of the Southern Tier counties of New York? 15 I'm looking at areas, economically depressed 16 areas. I don't want to mention any names, but I 17 think you know the counties that I'm talking about 18 down in the Southern Tier of New York. 19 RICHARD NEPHEW: Yeah, exactly. That's very 20 a topic of our conversations. 21 And, you know, if we can generate that extra 22 capacity, and we can't use the power, obviously, it 23 has to go somewhere. 24 SENATOR MAZIARZ: 600 megawatts is a lot of 25 power. 1 RICHARD NEPHEW: It has to go somewhere. 2 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Yeah. 3 Okay. Thank you. 4 Senator Gallivan. 5 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Yeah, thank you, Chairman. 6 Chairman Nephew, I have one or two questions. 7 But, first, I think, as you know, my 8 district; I represent a district, that, on the 9 western end, starts in your territory. And, 10 ironically, on the eastern end, the border is 11 actually Canandaigua. 12 And you make reference in your testimony to 13 the Canandaigua treaty of 1794. 14 And one of the things that I think is 15 interesting about it is, that there's still two 16 existing copies of it. 17 One is in the Smithsonian. The other is 18 still located in Canandaigua, more, really, of a 19 point of interest than anything else. 20 RICHARD NEPHEW: Yeah. 21 SENATOR GALLIVAN: And I know that we have 22 talked on a number of occasions. 23 And, given my background in public service, 24 I've worked with the Nation on a number of different 25 things over the years. And, I think it's been a 1 good relationship. 2 But, the questions that I have: You made 3 reference to -- for lack of saying them a better 4 way, to a couple of different, disputes, issues; 5 were in conflict with the State. 6 And, I know that, at least, a meeting, or 7 several meetings, have been taking -- taken place, 8 to discuss things, like, the issues relating to the 9 Thruway, and, the differences in the gaming compact. 10 And I'm wondering if you're able to comment 11 on the status of those negotiations? 12 RICHARD NEPHEW: Well -- 13 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Now, before you do, I 14 understand some of it, I mean, obviously, is subject 15 to negotiation, and might be confidential. 16 But, to the extent that you're able to 17 comment on it, could you? 18 RICHARD NEPHEW: Well, we are talking about 19 it, and we look forward to resolving them. 20 I think they are resolvable. And, we have 21 both taken sides, the State and the Seneca Nation, 22 and we have cooperated as best we can, especially in 23 a matter of public safety, when it came to the 24 bridge repairs, most recently. 25 You know, I've mentioned, other conflicts, 1 areas of conflict. You know, and I have made 2 complaints to the media many times over the years, 3 that, you know, it seems kind of one-sided, their 4 representation of -- seems to be so much discussion 5 about what the State believes that the Seneca Nation 6 owes to the New York State. But, they don't often, 7 or hardly ever, report on what we believe the State 8 owes the Seneca Nation; such as, the promises 9 contained in the 1976 expressway agreement, that are 10 yet unfulfilled. 11 And, I have said before, and I'll repeat it 12 here: That, I'm embarrassed, that, in the late day 13 of 1976, that the leadership of the Seneca Nation 14 was so easily convinced -- and, no offense -- but, 15 to the leadership of New York State at the time, 16 that made those promises. 17 Many important things have been promised, and 18 a list of things, and we've not seen it come to 19 fruition. 20 So, when I have to deal with my people at 21 home, and we talk about trusting New York State 22 again, to guarantee us, or make agreements with us, 23 or promise us anything, you know, my people at home 24 say, you know, "You're crazy." 25 [Laughter.] 1 RICHARD NEPHEW: "What about 1976? You know, 2 when are you going to ask them about that?" 3 So, many times, on our trips here to Albany, 4 we do talk about that. We do bring those things up. 5 But, it's hard -- it's hard to develop that trust 6 with my constituents. 7 And, we're working as best that we can to 8 work out our differences with New York State. We 9 want to put them in the past. 10 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Well, you know, we 11 certainly understand about hard -- when you made the 12 comment, "hard to develop" the trust with your 13 people, New York State government has gone through 14 that over the past several years. And I think we've 15 made great gains to regaining our citizens' trust 16 with the progress we've made this year. 17 So, I understand the position that you're 18 coming from. 19 Would you just -- you employ -- the Nation 20 employs about 6,000 people? 21 RICHARD NEPHEW: Yes, about that. 22 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Can you can, like, talk 23 about the demographic of the employees: where they 24 come from, who they are? 25 RICHARD NEPHEW: Well, they're from all over 1 Western New York. 2 And, I actually know that we've also employed 3 some Canadian citizens. 4 Some citizens of Pennsylvania, that, as you 5 know, in the Salamanca area, we're relatively close 6 to Pennsylvania border, where it makes sense for 7 them to take a job here. 8 But, yeah, we believe, that -- well, there's 9 approximately 8,000 Senecas. Mostly Senecas in 10 Western New York. Some scattered around the world. 11 But, I think just about every Seneca that wants a 12 job in the gaming industry, has a job. 13 I mean, it's just impossible to employ only 14 Senecas, so we -- 15 Let me look here. I might have a percentage 16 for you. 17 I don't have that percentage, but, it is a 18 large percentage. 19 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Of non-Indians? 20 RICHARD NEPHEW: That's right. 21 SENATOR GALLIVAN: That are employed? 22 RICHARD NEPHEW: Yes. 23 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Is it -- I seem to 24 remember -- I was present at a hearing, where 25 President Porter testified. 1 And, if I remember correctly, would it be 2 accurate, that it's somewhere over 50 percent of 3 your employees are non-Indians? 4 RICHARD NEPHEW: Oh, yes, far over 5 50 percent. 6 I would say, over 80 percent. Maybe, 7 somewhere around 90 percent. 8 SENATOR GALLIVAN: All right. 9 And one last question, it does have to do 10 with the employees. 11 And, we hear in broad strokes, and you see in 12 the media, issues relating to taxes: Indians, taxes, 13 and it's just, taxes, in general, but, nobody really 14 talks about. 15 And can you just clarify for everybody, the 16 employees; the taxes that you pay on employees? 17 And, is there any difference between what a 18 non-Indian business pays, as far as the payroll 19 taxes, withholding, et cetera? 20 RICHARD NEPHEW: You're talking about private 21 business? 22 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Yes. 23 RICHARD NEPHEW: Any employee, I believe, 24 either in the private sector or government sector, 25 including the employees, if they're not resident on 1 our territories, then they must pay New York State 2 taxes. 3 SENATOR ALESI: All right, so, the issues 4 regarding taxes, they're limited to the sales tax, 5 the point of difference? 6 RICHARD NEPHEW: Well, the -- 7 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Or, the source of 8 differences has to do with sales tax -- 9 RICHARD NEPHEW: Well -- 10 SENATOR GALLIVAN: -- not payroll taxes. 11 RICHARD NEPHEW: Okay. 12 Payroll taxes, if they're resident outside, 13 yes, they -- we have to pay. 14 We believe we've been guaranteed, the 15 security of our territories, on that note, of the 16 sales taxes. And it's kind of a misin- -- I don't 17 know, misinterpretation, or misinformation, that we 18 pay no taxes at all. 19 In fact, any goods coming into our territory, 20 mostly -- I guess, unfortunately, we have to talk 21 about cigarettes -- but, our federal taxes are paid. 22 All of us pay, federal taxes, employment 23 taxes. 24 And, you know, due to the treaties, and the 25 tens of thousands of acres that we relinquished for 1 those treaties, and for those promises, we believe 2 our taxes are pre-paid. You know, we -- we believe 3 that it's covered in the treaties. 4 SENATOR GALLIVAN: All right. Thank you. 5 Mr. Kimelberg, I have just one question for 6 you. 7 And, you speak about economic development; 8 and, specifically, your testimony had to do with the 9 Western New York business community wanting to 10 build, with you, Western New York's economy. 11 Can you -- I know you spoke of just a few 12 things, but, could you elaborate on that? 13 DAVID KIMELBERG: Certainly. 14 We are -- we have become an integral part of 15 the Western New York business community; 16 particularly, with the creation of our new 17 businesses, and our new investments. 18 I consistently meet with business owners in 19 Western New York, be it in the construction 20 industry, in the development industry, and a diverse 21 number of industries. And, they see their 22 businesses stagnating. 23 However, they see a route to success, a route 24 to growth, by partnering with our entities, because 25 we -- like I said, we bring unique attributes, that 1 cannot be found elsewhere, to the table, primarily 2 in the federal sector. 3 And they like that. They see the opportunity 4 there. They want to partner with us, and leverage 5 those benefits. 6 So, like I said -- and this is a consistent 7 refrain I hear in the Western New York business 8 community: It's an education. It's getting people 9 up to speed with what we can offer. 10 Because, frankly, when I meet with people, 11 they're actually surprised how much there is to 12 offer, and how much opportunity there is. 13 But, we've spent two years, meeting with 14 people, getting people up to speed. And, people are 15 very excited about this. 16 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Are you able to, in that 17 two-year period -- and if you're not, that's okay -- 18 are you able to quantify that? 19 If you'll go back two years: How many 20 non-Indian partner businesses did you have? And, 21 how does that now compare, two years later? 22 If you're able to. 23 DAVID KIMELBERG: Sure. 24 Our companies, to date, we've grown 25 organically. Other than one, we've partnered with a 1 business. 2 But, we have, in eleven, we are probably 3 looking at somewhere in the range of 20 million 4 revenues, top line. 5 Twelve, we're expecting to double that. 6 And, created a number of jobs. 7 SENATOR GALLIVAN: And this is non-gaming? 8 DAVID KIMELBERG: Non-gaming. 9 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Non-gaming businesses. 10 DAVID KIMELBERG: Correct. 11 SENATOR GALLIVAN: All right. Thank you. 12 Thank you, Chairman. 13 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, 14 Senator Gallivan. 15 Just one follow-up, Mr. Kimelberg. 16 Governor Cuomo has recently designated these 17 regional economic development councils. 18 And I know that the one in Western New York 19 is headed by Dr. Satish Tripathi, and, uhm -- 20 SENATOR KENNEDY: Howard Zemsky. 21 SENATOR MAZIARZ: -- and Howard Zemsky. 22 Thank you. 23 And, I know that they're just getting 24 underway, but one of the suggestions that came up at 25 the meeting that was held at Niagara County 1 Community College last week, was that, the members 2 of the council meet with the Seneca Nation, meet 3 with yourself, to talk about opportunities, with the 4 Regional Economic Development Council; and, most 5 particularly, with the University of Buffalo. 6 You know, Senator Kennedy, Senator Gallivan, 7 Senator Grisanti, and myself, were strong supporters 8 of the UB 20/20 proposal, which, you know, was 9 approved by the Legislature, and by Governor Cuomo, 10 this year. 11 And it's -- we think it's going to be a great 12 economic engine within Western New York. 13 And, clearly, I think my colleagues would 14 agree, that it would be beneficial for everyone, you 15 know, for the Senecas to be a part of that. 16 So, just, by way of a suggestion, more than a 17 question. 18 DAVID KIMELBERG: No, I would like to echo 19 that. 20 I think it would be very useful for us to 21 reach out, to have a line of communication with 22 those councils, because, you know, like we've 23 outlined today, we're a tremendous economic force in 24 Western New York. And I think that there's a lot of 25 synergy there, a lot of activity, that can go on 1 with that council, and the Seneca Nation, and our 2 holding company, and our businesses. 3 So, yeah, I would certainly echo that 4 statement. 5 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you. 6 Thank you very much. 7 DAVID KIMELBERG: Thank you. 8 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you. 9 Thank you, Richard. Thank you, 10 Mr. Kimelberg. We appreciate you being here 11 today. 12 Thank you. 13 RICHARD NEPHEW: Thank you. 14 DAVID KIMELBERG: Thank you. 15 SENATOR MAZIARZ: And, Richard, you can see 16 we never stick to the 15-minute limit, ever, so... 17 RICHARD NEPHEW: Great. 18 I think we could spend the whole day, 19 actually, talking about it. 20 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Our next witness is 21 Representative Ray Halbritter, of the Oneida Indian 22 Nation. 23 Thank you very much, Mr. Halbritter, for 24 taking the time to be here today. We appreciate 25 your attendance. 1 RAY HALBRITTER: [Speaks in native language.] 2 I bring you greetings of peace from the 3 Oneida people of the Oneida Indian Nation. 4 Chairman Maziarz, members of the Committee, I 5 thank you for the opportunity to discuss issues of 6 mutual concern to the State and the Indian nations 7 within New York's borders. 8 I'd like to commend the Committee for 9 restarting this dialogue. 10 I'm hopeful it will be the first of many 11 hearings that focus on ways we can work together in 12 productive and positive ways on behalf of the people 13 we all represent. 14 I was asked to speak about the history of the 15 Oneida Nation, as well as, some of the issues of 16 Indian nations, and economic development in 17 New York. 18 We are -- we've been here since time in 19 memorial, our Indian people. And, we are taught to 20 think in terms of the seventh generation of the 21 future; to consider our decision-making, and its 22 effect under the seventh generation. 23 But these two topics, the history of my 24 people and the economic development in New York 25 State, happen to be very closely related. 1 To better understand what I'm saying, let me 2 begin by -- this testimony, by making a guarantee to 3 this Committee. 4 One year from now, when this hearing is held 5 again, there will be -- not be one Indian nation 6 represented here today that will have relocated out 7 of state, or stopped making significant investments 8 into the communities we represent. 9 Five years from now, when this hearing is 10 held, not one Indian nation represented here today 11 will have relocated out of state, or stopped making 12 significant investments in the communities that we 13 represent. 14 Twenty-five years from now, and fifty years 15 from now, when this hearing is held, not one Indian 16 nation here will have relocated out of state, or 17 stopped making significant investments in the 18 communities we represent. 19 The reason we can be so confident in making 20 this guarantee, is because it's the exact same 21 guarantee our people made to George Washington in 22 1794, that resulted in the treaty of 1794, 23 Canandaigua, and, countless other leaders over the 24 existence of this country. 25 Through good times and bad times, through 1 poverty and prosperity, we have been here. And, we 2 will be here to the end of time. 3 That is our guarantee. 4 We think in terms, in long term; terms of the 5 long view, of the view of generations coming after 6 us. 7 This time we have today really is a time we 8 think belongs to our children and their future. And 9 that's why we must be very careful, and considerate, 10 about what we do as a people. 11 But, how many businesses in New York can make 12 the same guarantee? 13 You'll never read in a newspaper headline, 14 that says: The Oneida Indian Nation to outsource 15 jobs to another state. Or, the Oneida Indian Nation 16 to relocate its headquarters overseas. 17 In a time and era of economic insecurity, 18 with countless examples of businesses leaving the 19 state in order to better compete in the global 20 market, Indian nations have proven to be a 21 stabilizing economic force, willing to make the type 22 of long-term financial investments that are so 23 uncommon in today's economy. 24 It's critical that members of the 25 State Legislature and the Administration understand 1 this essential point. 2 We are governments obligated to invest our 3 revenues and resources into our ancestral lands and 4 surrounding communities right here in New York. 5 This is the real story that some would rather 6 not discuss. 7 Given this reality, New York State should be 8 looking to us, as a partner, in helping overcome the 9 financial downturn it has been in for so many years. 10 However, recently, that has not been the 11 case. We have not been seen as partners, but, quite 12 the opposite. 13 Not including today's hearing, I can't 14 remember the last time the Indian nations were 15 invited to testify in Albany about ways to work, 16 collectively, together -- together, to confront our 17 many mutual challenges; namely, determining how best 18 to generate the economic and the community-building 19 activity that gives us the resources to provide for 20 the health, education, and general well-being of our 21 citizens. 22 More to the point, while the Indian leaders 23 here today have all testified before a congressional 24 committees in Washington, D.C., and have worked with 25 the White House, in both Democratic and Republican 1 administrations, to address the major economic 2 issues facing our country, for some reason, there's 3 not one Indian nation on any of the ten regional 4 economic development councils the State launched in 5 an effort to redesign the relationship between 6 New York and its businesses. 7 And why is that? 8 I would venture to guess, that most objective 9 people looking at the proven track record of 10 economic development by Indian nations in New York 11 State would believe that the State would have much 12 to gain by drawing on our expertise and knowledge of 13 our communities, and helping to improve the general 14 economic environment of New York. 15 Just take a look at Central New York. 16 The region was once one of the primary 17 manufacturing centers of this country, until the 18 shareholders and board members of countless 19 companies, closed up, and moved out of state or 20 overseas. 21 At the same time that these companies were 22 leaving New York, the Oneidas were investing back 23 into the community. 24 In the process, the Oneida Indian Nation 25 emerged as one of the most positive economic forces 1 in Central New York. 2 The Oneida Indian Nation is the largest 3 employer in Oneida and Madison Counties, and the 4 third largest employer in the 16 counties that make 5 up Central New York, behind only Cornell University, 6 and the State University Health System, both 7 tax-exempt entities. 8 The Oneida Indian Nation employs nearly 9 5,000 people in Central New York. 10 Turning Stone, our destination resort, brings 11 more than 4 1/2 million visitors a year into our 12 community. 13 We have a payroll exceeding $125 million a 14 year, that has invested directly into our local 15 economy, last year alone. 16 We invest in many other businesses as well. 17 Our other operations include, the SavOn chain 18 of convenience stores, RV park, three marinas, 19 Indian Country Today media network, 20 Four Directions Productions, a fishing lodge, and a 21 car-care center. 22 According to an independent analysis 23 commissioned by the United States Bureau of 24 Indian Affairs, the Oneida Nation's enterprises and 25 government programs generate nearly $17 in economic 1 activity for every $1 that the state and local 2 governments forgo in tax revenue from the 3 Oneida Nation. 4 If I may put that in business terms, that is 5 a dramatic return on investment. 6 We never turned our backs on the people of 7 Central New York, and we never will. 8 Today, we are building the economic and 9 community foundations that will enable our children, 10 and our neighbor's children, to continue to live in 11 our part of the state. 12 Revitalizing New York's communities is 13 certainly no easy task. Believe me, the Oneida 14 people know something about the challenges involved 15 here. 16 But, if the State is willing to work with 17 New York Indian nations as a partner, if 18 negotiations are conducted in good faith on both 19 sides, I'm certain that, together, we can create 20 symbiotic relationship that will allow all 21 New Yorkers to reap the benefits of our labors. 22 It brings us -- bring us to the table as a 23 partner, just like the Founding Fathers of this 24 country did so many years ago. Rather than as an 25 adversary, let us muster our collective wisdom and 1 creativity to find solutions to the challenges we 2 face. 3 By working together, we can help build a 4 bright and secure future for our families, and for 5 the faces yet unborn. 6 Again, thank you for providing this forum. 7 And, I look forward to working with you in the 8 future, to provide a better future unto the seventh 9 generation. 10 [Speaks in native language.] 11 RAY HALBRITTER: Thank you. 12 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you very much, 13 Mr. Halbritter. 14 We appreciate, again, all that -- all that 15 you personally do, and the jobs that you create, and 16 the economic development. 17 Could you just give, are there any -- you 18 mentioned some of the areas of job creation that the 19 Oneida Nation is involved in today. 20 Are there any other areas of economic 21 development, job creation, that you're considering 22 in the immediate future, or in the distant future? 23 RAY HALBRITTER: Well, we've been working, 24 about ten years, on the -- developing a 25 Four Directions Production, which is a live-action 1 and animation production company that does film. 2 And, recently, we have just initiated a 3 project, and -- of doing a film in Central New York, 4 relative to our history, and, of course, the history 5 of New York, because that's where it all happened. 6 And I do think that there is a possibility of 7 that industry doing more in the region. And we're 8 hoping to spur some of that, and spark some of that. 9 There -- some of the outstanding issues that 10 we have with the State, relative to land and 11 taxation issues, really prevent a broader approach 12 to economic development where we are. 13 But, we could create, I believe, sincerely, 14 hundreds, if not thousands, of more jobs in our 15 region, with some security to investors and partners 16 who we would like to work with and potentially bring 17 to the area. 18 There are, really, many, many opportunities. 19 And, see, we look at it differently than 20 another business because, this is our home. We have 21 been here since time in memorial. 22 This is about New York. This is about our 23 homeland. It's about, where we've been, where we'll 24 always be. 25 So, our greatest concern, is about the 1 development of our community, and also part of -- as 2 being part of this state. 3 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you. 4 Senator Gallivan. 5 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Yeah, if you could just 6 educate me, if you're able to, the same question I 7 had asked earlier of the Senecas: the demographic of 8 your employees. 9 You have a little less than 5,000 employees? 10 RAY HALBRITTER: We have a little less than 11 5,000. We have, about 90 percent, are non-native. 12 And we have hundreds of employees, actually, from 13 around the world. 14 And, Utica has a refugee center. And, they 15 bring in people from Somalia, and other countries, 16 all the time. And we have, about, four to 17 six hundred of those people working, from -- as 18 refugees from around the world. 19 So, it's an amazing, actually, employee base. 20 We have, uhm -- we have been open since '93. 21 We have mothers and daughters working there, 22 together. We have children of parents that have 23 been there so long. 24 There's -- we have such a very good work 25 force, that some of these people have such great 1 upward mobility. 2 We provide so many great benefits to our 3 employees, too; retirement, tuition incentives, 4 healthcare, that, even for part-time employees, that 5 almost no employer does. Many of those benefits 6 that we do for our employee base. 7 So, we work with the ARC as well. We've 8 received awards from the ARC, statewide, for 9 employing citizens who are challenged in other ways. 10 So, it's -- we have about 5,000 -- just under 11 5,000 employees, and an incredible work force that 12 we've been able to develop. 13 SENATOR GALLIVAN: How about vendors? Are 14 you able to quantify, in dollars, or in number, of 15 non-Indian vendors that you deal with? 16 RAY HALBRITTER: Well, of course, we have 17 many, many vendors. 18 How many? We have hundreds that we deal 19 with. 20 We did -- we've got almost a billion dollars 21 into the ground. 22 Our payroll exceeds $125 million a year. 23 We do over $300 million a year in vending, as 24 far as purchasing goods and services. 25 As I said, the study by the federal 1 government said, that, for every dollar that was 2 forgone by local tax -- local governments and state 3 governments in tax revenue, $17 was returned, 4 because of the economic development that we've done 5 there in Upstate -- in Central New York. 6 SENATOR GALLIVAN: All right, thank you. 7 Thank you, Chairman. 8 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you. 9 Just one last question, Mr. Halbritter. 10 RAY HALBRITTER: Sure. 11 SENATOR MAZIARZ: The movie that you talked 12 about, was that a single-movie venture, or is that 13 like a film industry that you're trying to create in 14 Central New York? 15 RAY HALBRITTER: Well -- 16 SENATOR MAZIARZ: If you could just -- 17 RAY HALBRITTER: -- we have a 18 Four Productions -- 19 SENATOR MAZIARZ: -- not that I want a role 20 in the movie -- 21 [Laughter.] 22 RAY HALBRITTER: -- no, it's -- 23 SENATOR MAZIARZ: -- but, you know. 24 [Laughter.] 25 RAY HALBRITTER: -- well, we -- 1 SENATOR MAZIARZ: I wouldn't get one anyway. 2 Maybe one of these two would, but... 3 RAY HALBRITTER: Auditions are continuing. 4 SENATOR MAZIARZ: They're younger and better 5 looking than me. 6 RAY HALBRITTER: We have a Four Directions 7 production company, which we created for some years 8 now. And we have done a number of films, as well 9 as, we've done some ads, and other commercial 10 activity, for businesses around us. 11 And, so, we've done an animated feature that 12 won awards internationally, as well. It was 13 screened in Cannes, actually, our first film, 14 "Raccoon and Crawfish." 15 And, we're just ready to complete another 16 animated feature, recently. And it's being -- it's 17 actually selling quite well in the regional area. 18 So, it's part of an industry that we're sort 19 of developing ourselves, but the film was a little 20 bit more than our small production company can do, 21 so we outsourced that, from -- we hired a production 22 company to come in and do that. 23 But, we do think, given the experience we've 24 had with that industry, that there's opportunity in 25 Upstate. There's opportunity in working with the 1 State. I think, they -- you know, you just don't 2 know. There's just a lot of opportunity, that, 3 working together, I think we can look at, and 4 develop. 5 And, we have resources. I mean, 6 Indian nations, now that we -- with this success, 7 I mean, our resources, we want to invest right there 8 in our homeland, right where our communities are. 9 So, I think there's more opportunity there. 10 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Well, I tend to agree with 11 you. 12 And, actually, during the years I chaired for 13 a few years, the Senate Labor Committee, and we used 14 to meet a lot with the film industry, you know, 15 mostly surrounding issues in New York City, because 16 that's where they wanted to be -- that's where 17 they're actually located, that's where they wanted 18 to make films. 19 And I know that Senator Robach, often, would 20 try to entice them to come up to -- you know, 21 obviously, Rochester was the home of Kodak, still is 22 the home of Kodak. 23 But -- and I think that some of those 24 major motion picture folks were amazed at, number 25 one, at how much more -- less expensive they could 1 produce movies in Upstate New York. 2 So, I always thought that it was a great 3 place for that industry to locate; to look at 4 Upstate New York and Central New York, and -- 5 RAY HALBRITTER: Well, this is one example, 6 where Indian nations, and the status of their lands, 7 can be an advantage in an economic-outlook 8 opportunity like this, because their lands are 9 regulated by Indian nations, so, you don't have, 10 necessarily, all of the, sort of bureaucratic 11 regulation that industry has to go through in order 12 to do what it needs to do. And, their lands are 13 non-taxable. 14 So, there's an advantage there. 15 There's, potentially, some federal tax 16 benefits as well. 17 But, these things, once you discuss them, and 18 talk about them, package them for this industry, 19 they simply are unaware of this. They're unaware of 20 the advantages. 21 And, that's something that the State and the 22 Indian nations could work together, as one example. 23 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you. 24 Thank you very much. 25 And, we will pass along your suggestion on 1 the regional economic development councils. 2 RAY HALBRITTER: Yes, thank you. 3 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you very much for 4 being here today. 5 Okay, our next witness is 6 Chief Ron LaFrance, Jr., of the Saint Regis Mohawk 7 Indian Nation. 8 Thank you, Chief LaFrance, for being here 9 today. 10 RON LAFRANCE, JR.: You're welcome. 11 SENATOR MAZIARZ: And I would just like to 12 note for the record, that I had the pleasure of a 13 meeting at the Saint Regis Mohawk Economic 14 Development Engine, up in the North Country, like, 15 about a month ago, six weeks ago, or whatever. 16 RON LAFRANCE, JR.: Yes. 17 SENATOR MAZIARZ: And, I just wanted to thank 18 you for your hospitality. 19 It was a very informative meeting. We talked 20 about education issues, law enforcement issues, and 21 economic-development issues. 22 And, I was very impressed with your 23 entertainment facility that you have there, and -- 24 RON LAFRANCE, JR.: But you didn't spend any 25 money. 1 [Laughter.] 2 SENATOR MAZIARZ: I didn't spend any money. 3 So, I just wanted to publicly say: Thank you. 4 RON LAFRANCE, JR.: You're welcome. 5 SENATOR MAZIARZ: It was a long drive up 6 there, I can tell you that. 7 RON LAFRANCE, JR.: We made the ride this 8 morning. 9 [Laughter.] 10 RON LAFRANCE, JR.: At 5:00. 11 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you, Chief. 12 RON LAFRANCE, JR.: Thank you. 13 I would like to start off by saying: [Speaks 14 in native language.] 15 In my language, I said: Hello, to everybody. 16 And, in my language, my name means: He pulls 17 down the sky. 18 My given name -- that's my given name -- or 19 my chosen name, I should say. 20 My given name is Ron LaFrance, Jr. 21 And, like Senator Maziarz said, I am one of 22 the chiefs from the Saint Regis Mohawk tribe. 23 And on behalf of the Saint Regis Mohawk 24 tribe, I would like to take this moment to 25 recognize, and express thanks to, Chairman Maziarz, 1 for his role in establishing this committee, and for 2 including us in this very important dialogue. 3 Our current reservation is located in 4 Franklin and Saint Lawrence Counties in 5 Upstate New York, right on the Canadian border. In 6 fact, the border dissects the Mohawk community in 7 half, leaving two separate and distinct federally 8 recognized Mohawk governments: one in Canada, and 9 one in the United States. 10 In addition, many Mohawks maintain 11 citizenships with the traditional Mohawk Longhouse 12 governments. 13 The Saint Regis Mohawk Tribe's current 14 governmental structure, adopted in 1802, consists 15 of: three chiefs, three subchiefs, and a tribal 16 clerk. 17 The Saint Regis Mohawk Tribal Council chiefs 18 are responsible for setting policy and making major 19 decisions on behalf of the tribe. 20 We oversee the operation of the 21 Saint Regis Mohawk tribal government, and ensure the 22 quality programs and services are made available to 23 our people. 24 New York State and the United States federal 25 government deal with the Saint Regis Mohawk Tribal 1 Council on a government-to-government level. 2 In addition, like any other government, we 3 administer environmental, social, policing, 4 economic, health, and educational programs, 5 policies, laws, and regulations. 6 The Saint Regis Mohawk tribe has witnessed a 7 remarkable expansion in recent years. We have 8 experienced economic growth, largely made possible 9 by the growth of our bingo and casino operations. 10 The tribe's gaming-led growth has been built 11 upon an active private sector, and bolstered 12 underfunded tribal programs to address poverty, 13 health, education, the environment, and a host of 14 other public concerns. 15 As beneficial as our growth has been for 16 Mohawk citizens, it has also had positive effects on 17 the surrounding non-Indians and their communities. 18 In particular, the total Saint Regis Mohawk 19 tribal employment consists, both, governmental, as 20 well as gaming, employees, has grown, from 956 in 21 2003, to 1,370 in 2010, making the tribe the third 22 largest employer in combined Saint Lawrence and 23 Franklin Counties, and the fifth largest in 24 Northern New York. The majority of these employees 25 are non-Indians. 1 The combined payroll of our government and 2 gaming operations was approximately $39 million, 3 with another, approximate, $20 million in 4 payroll-related benefits. These benefits are some 5 of the most generous in the region, including health 6 insurance, employer-sponsored retirement funds; 7 benefits that few employers in the region continue 8 to support at the level the tribe and its gaming 9 operations do. 10 Since 2005, the Saint Regis Mohawk tribe paid 11 nearly 55 -- or, $56 million in direct revenue 12 sharing with New York. Of that money, one-quarter 13 has gone to Saint Lawrence and Franklin Counties, to 14 fund economic development, and compulsive gaming -- 15 gambling programs, at the counties' discretion. 16 Equity transfers from the gaming enterprises 17 to the tribal government has increased drastically, 18 from 700,000 in 2003, to 17 million in 2010, helping 19 meet chronic gaps in federal and state funding for 20 Indian programs. 21 Since government spending is largely wages 22 and personnel benefits, the majority of that money 23 stays in the region. 24 The private sector on the Saint Regis Mohawk 25 Reservation employed at least 400 Indians and 1 non-Indians, and helped fund 3.5 million in tribal 2 government, via spending, via fees collected from 3 licensed retailers, wholesalers, and manufacturers. 4 The Saint Regis Mohawk tribe creates net 5 economic benefits for Saint Lawrence and 6 Franklin Counties by drawing in only one-third of 7 its revenue from the region, while expanding about 8 the same proportion of its vendor outlays, and 9 98 percent of its payroll, in the region. 10 Similarly, tobacco and gas sales, and other 11 spending, on the territory bring net benefits to the 12 region, since about 35 percent of the sales volume 13 derives from Canadian visitors. 14 Far from depending on federal and state 15 taxpayers, as myths may have it, the 16 Saint Regis Mohawk tribe has become an engine for 17 local employment, growth, and economic development. 18 In addition, the majority of the employees 19 are non-natives. Roughly, 72 percent of the casino 20 employees, 60 percent of the bingo employees, and 21 about 40 percent of the Tribe's government 22 employees, are non-Indians. 23 At this time, with the potential of increased 24 competition from commercial gaming ventures, that 25 may, or not be, from this state, or even this 1 country, it is important to note, like Ray said, 2 that Indian gaming brings tangible benefits for both 3 tribal members and taxpayers that other commercial 4 ventures may not. 5 For example: The revenues, local spending, 6 and payroll benefits exceed what would occur under 7 other economic development in other casino-ownership 8 structures. 9 Tribal government-owned casinos, like the 10 Mohawks, the Senecas, and the Oneidas, neither 11 disburse our profits to shareholders around the 12 world, nor move their headquarters out of state. 13 The Saint Regis Mohawk economy cannot supply 14 all requisite goods, services, and labor to operate 15 governmental services and gaming operations. We 16 spend millions of dollars in local and regional 17 economy, annually. 18 The reservation economy is also associated 19 with a $5.8 million in local and state excise tax. 20 While the economy of the Saint Regis Mohawk 21 tribe no longer relies exclusively on the sale of 22 tax-exempt products, it would be irresponsible of me 23 to not include this sector of our economy in my 24 presentation today. 25 Because of our remote location in the state, 1 for many years, our economy relied heavily on the 2 sale of tax-exempt cigarettes and gasoline for our 3 very survival. 4 To this day, the Saint Regis Mohawk tribe has 5 licensed over 50 businesses, and they employ over 6 400 local residents, many of whom are your 7 constituents, and most of whom would be out of work 8 if it weren't for these jobs. 9 Customers who purchase from tribal retailers 10 retain more disposal income for other consumption 11 than they would under New York State's tax scheme. 12 And what I mean by that, is, when they come 13 to our community and buy cheap cigarettes, they have 14 more money to spend in their own communities, which 15 they are not spending in mine. 16 Much has been said about, of the need for the 17 collection of cigarette taxes on sales made to 18 non-natives on our reservations and within our 19 territories. 20 It is clear that the anticipated windfall to 21 the State from the imposition of increased tax -- 22 these increased taxes, and in particular, imposing 23 those taxes on cigarettes sold to Mohawk retailers, 24 has not become a reality. 25 In fact, the increase in cigarette sales by 1 the State has created prohibition-like incentives 2 for tax evasion across state boundaries, resulting 3 in even more dollars leaving the state. 4 Our situation, in particular, the imposition 5 of the State -- of a State tax on cigarette sales 6 within our reservation has harmed the 7 Northern New York economy, resulting in a lost of 8 jobs, loss of valuable revenue to the tribe, and a 9 decrease in Mohawk business owners' purchases of 10 goods and services from the neighboring towns and 11 communities. 12 As a result of the recent State actions that 13 threaten the economic basis under which the 14 Saint Regis Mohawk tribe has managed to thrive and 15 survive, the leadership of the Mohawk tribe fully 16 understands the importance of diversification of our 17 economy, and will continue to do so, and invest in 18 our gaming operations, while pursuing other 19 economic-development opportunities. 20 For example: The Saint Regis Mohawk tribe 21 recently received federal funding, to provide 22 broadband connectivity to over 1,500 households and 23 200 local businesses in our community. 24 In the long term, this will create jobs and 25 opportunities for enhanced private-business 1 development. 2 The Saint Regis Mohawk tribe has also 3 initiated the construction of an expansion of our 4 gaming facilities, that will include, a new hotel, 5 an RV park, and additional infrastructure. 6 The $75 million investment will increase our 7 gaming revenues, while creating hundreds of 8 temporary construction jobs, and, additionally -- 9 and, initially, 50 additional permanent jobs. 10 The result -- the overall result will be 11 additional tribal revenues to invest in other 12 opportunities. 13 Other opportunities include, public 14 transportation, which is sorely needed in the 15 region, which will, in turn, spur the local economy, 16 not only within Akwesasne, but within our 17 neighboring communities. 18 In conclusion: The Saint Regis Mohawk tribe 19 has been a consistent source of economic growth in 20 the North Country, and we will continue to be for 21 many, many years to come. 22 While the populations of our neighboring 23 towns are dwindling, our population is growing, and 24 so is our potential. 25 We look forward to continuing our work with 1 regional partners, such as the area chambers of 2 commerce, the North Country, Regional Economic 3 Development Council. 4 And, we look forward to a continued dialogue 5 with members of this Committee. 6 Thank you for your time at this hearing. 7 [Speaks in native language.] 8 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you very much, Chief, 9 for coming here today. 10 We know, and Senator Little, and 11 Senator Richie, constantly remind us, that there are 12 very particular challenges in the North Country, 13 given the relatively remote area of the location of 14 the Akwesasne Reserve. 15 I know that, when we met, we talked about, 16 one of the issues that seemed to be on many of your 17 colleagues' mind, was the issue of education, and 18 some issues that you had with the State Education 19 Department. 20 And, I just wanted to let you know, that, 21 both, Senator Richie and Senator Little, have 22 reached into the State Education Department, to talk 23 about this. 24 I don't know if you wanted to just mention 25 those. 1 I think, again, for the purpose of my 2 colleagues, and the colleagues that are represented 3 here by staff people, it's good for us to know that 4 you have those types of issues, and sometimes how 5 the bureaucracy gets in the way of what you want to 6 do. 7 So, if you could just comment on that. 8 RON LAFRANCE, JR.: Well, we're in the 9 process of negotiating the school budget with the 10 Salmon River School District. 11 And, part of that, is getting more control of 12 our children's decision. And by doing so, we feel 13 that it is very important that the tribe be a 14 signatory to this, these negotiations, and the 15 contract itself. 16 SENATOR MAZIARZ: I know that, in 17 Western New York, at least in one small school 18 district, the Akron School District, the 19 Seneca Nation does have an agreement with the school 20 district, to provide -- 21 RON LAFRANCE, JR.: And Salamanca. 22 SENATOR MAZIARZ: -- and, in my opinion -- in 23 my opinion, just my estimate -- it worked out very 24 well. 25 RON LAFRANCE, JR.: Uh-huh. 1 SENATOR MAZIARZ: With that, 2 Senator Gallivan? 3 SENATOR GALLIVAN: No. 4 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Okay, Senator Kennedy. 5 SENATOR KENNEDY: Yeah. 6 Thank you, Chief. 7 RON LAFRANCE, JR.: Uh-huh. 8 SENATOR KENNEDY: Briefly, Chief, you can 9 just discuss the borders of the territory, the 10 Saint Regis Mohawk territory, that transcends both 11 United States and Canadian border, the unique nature 12 of that, as well as, some of the unique problems 13 that may be faced by the Nation, given that setup? 14 And, what we may be able to do to be helpful 15 in resolving some of these issues. 16 RON LAFRANCE, JR.: Move it. Move that 17 border, so that our community can be one. 18 We have to go -- to visit our relatives that 19 live on the Canadian side, we have to go through 20 Customs, and then turn around and come back to our 21 homeland. 22 Other than that, I mean, it's a very -- it's 23 an inconvenience for us. 24 I don't know how you feel, you know, when 25 you're coming out of your community, if you would, 1 you know, be pulled over by the Border Patrol, and 2 say, "Did you report?" 3 Well, 99 percent of my people say: No, we 4 don't have to. We didn't leave our territory. 5 So, that's always been a problem. 6 I mean, we never asked the border to be put 7 directly down the middle of our territory. 8 When I was a kid, my grandmother's house was 9 situated right on the border. So, whenever there 10 was any trouble, they either went to, this side, or 11 that side [indicating.] 12 Now, you might laugh, it might be funny, but 13 those are things that we deal with every day. 14 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Chief, are you given any -- 15 I'm sorry. 16 Did you have -- 17 SENATOR KENNEDY: No, go ahead. 18 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Are Native Americans given 19 any special consideration at the border-crossing? 20 I would assume most of the crossing is done 21 at Cornwall? 22 RON LAFRANCE, JR.: Yeah, there's a crossing 23 at Cornwall, and then there's a port in Massena. 24 And what was your question again? 25 SENATOR MAZIARZ: I said: Are -- do you have 1 any special consideration? 2 Like, in Western New York, we have a nexus 3 pass that is available to -- 4 RON LAFRANCE, JR.: Not at this time. 5 On the Canadian side, they have -- well, they 6 used to have Indian Lane. 7 But on -- when you're coming through the 8 American side, you have to wait in line just like 9 everybody else. And, it's like being interrogated 10 when you come through the border. 11 I don't know how it is for you guys, but, you 12 know, I don't know if one of the first questions you 13 get asked is, "Do you have $10,000 or more?" 14 They don't even ask you where you live. 15 That's the first question that they ask you: 16 "Do you have $10,000 or more?" 17 Now, I don't know if that's proper protocol, 18 but it -- you know, I would encourage every one of 19 you to go through the border, and to see what it is 20 that we have to deal with. 21 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Anything else? 22 Senator? 23 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you. 24 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you very much, Chief. 25 We appreciate -- 1 Oh, I'm sorry. 2 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Can I just follow up on 3 that? 4 Is that, the border -- is the border located 5 on the reservation? 6 RON LAFRANCE, JR.: Yeah. Part of it is. 7 Part of it -- 8 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Well -- I'm sorry, let me 9 ask it a different way. 10 I know that the border is -- the 11 Canadian/American border -- 12 RON LAFRANCE, JR.: Uh-huh. 13 SENATOR GALLIVAN: -- transects the 14 reservation. I understand that. 15 But, the Border Patrol, and the checkpoints 16 that you may have to go through, is that on the 17 reservation as well, or do you go off the 18 reservation. 19 RON LAFRANCE, JR.: Well, as you know, the 20 Border Patrol can pull you over wherever they feel 21 like. 22 You know, they have some kind of federal law 23 that says that, they can, on any ancillary road 24 leading from a Customs, that they have the ability 25 to pull you over, whether it's on, Saint Regis Road; 1 Frog Town Road; Route, 37, 81 -- it doesn't 2 matter -- they have the right to do that. 3 There are no more border houses on the 4 Reserve, but, the Border Patrol presence is there. 5 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Okay, thank you. 6 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you very much, Chief. 7 We appreciate you being here today. 8 With that, Chairman Randy King, of the 9 Shinnecock Indian Nation, informed us that he was 10 unable to be here today. 11 So, that concludes this hearing. 12 Thank you all very much for being here. 13 And, I want to thank, Senator Kennedy, and 14 Senator Gallivan, for driving all the way from 15 Western New York, to be here today. 16 (Whereupon, at 11:38 p.m., the public 17 hearing, held before the New York State Senate 18 Standing Committee on State-Native American 19 Relations, concluded.) 20 21 ---oOo--- 22 23 24 25