Forum/Town Hall: Human Services Forum on the Current and Future Issues and Concerns of Human Services Administrators, Advocates and Clients

Chair 24 Children's Agenda 25 1 ALSO IN ATTENDANCE: 2 Luis Burgos

Commissioner 3 Recreation and Youth Services 4 Valerie Snipe

Program Officer 5 United Way of Greater Rochester 6 Alisa

(no position denoted) 7 Hunger Solutions of New York 8 Kelly Harris

Director of Administration 9 Alzheimer Association 10 Kelly Bartle

(no position denoted) 11 Rochester County Youth Bureau 12 Elizabeth Reyes

(no position denoted) 13 Rochester City School District,

Homeless Teen Program 14

Linda Beaty 15 (no position denoted)

Carol Jackson Ray 16 (no position denoted)

Rochester City School District 17

Bill Gutschow 18 Program Manager

Salvation Army's Genesis House 19

Several other speakers; no names provided 20 21 ---oOo--- 22 23 24 25 1 SENATOR ROBACH: Okay, good afternoon, 2 everybody. 3 Thank you, everyone who is here, and those 4 who will be giving testimony. 5 I am Senator Joe Robach, and I'm very happy 6 that we're having this hearing, and allowing people 7 in Rochester to put in their comments, testimony, 8 on the Governor's budget. 9 I see several people in the room who have 10 already contacted me via e-mail, or other ways, 11 regarding proposals of the executive budget. 12 But, I do want to both, introduce, and thank, 13 think my two colleagues. 14 First, Senator Pat Gallivan, the Chairman of 15 the Social Services Committee, and, 16 Senator Diane Savino, the Chairwoman of Children and 17 Families Committee, for taking the time, to not only 18 come here to Rochester, which I personally 19 appreciate on behalf of everyone in this region that 20 provides vital services; but, also, they've been 21 going around the rest of the state, and I think this 22 is very important, to give people the opportunity, 23 firsthand, to chime in, put their comments on the 24 record. 25 Obviously, this is a very, very important 1 part of the budget. It impacts young and old 2 alike. There are programs that can, not only impact 3 individuals greatly, but, really, our entire 4 community. 5 So, we're happy to have this, and do that. 6 So, with that, I will turn it over to 7 Senator Gallivan, who will give you a little bit of 8 an outline of how we're going to proceed, and move 9 forward and get right to the testimony. 10 Thanks again for being here. 11 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you, Senator. 12 Good afternoon, everybody. Thank you for 13 being here. 14 As Senator Robach had mentioned, I chair the 15 Senate Committee on Social Services, and 16 Senator Savino chairs the Senate Committee on 17 Children and Families. 18 And we have held hearings in different 19 parts of the state, to try to learn a little bit 20 more about the issues that you're facing. 21 Certainly, when we see the realities of the 22 economic downturn, we know that we have seen an 23 increase in need for human services, and at the same 24 time, demands on the various human-service agencies, 25 in a time when State government has cut its budget, 1 and everybody is looking for more and more 2 resources: financial resources, people resources, 3 and others. 4 So, we'd like to focus in two different 5 areas. We've tried to use this as an opportunity. 6 We started in New York City. We were in 7 Albany. We have a forum scheduled in Buffalo as 8 well. 9 And then, of course, we're meeting with 10 numerous people that -- out in our districts, and 11 that come to the Capitol to relay their concerns. 12 The Governor has come out with his budget. 13 I'm sure many, if not all, of you are keenly aware 14 of what's been proposed. 15 We're interested in hearing your thoughts 16 about the budget: How it impacts your agencies. 17 What you think we may be able to do to help, knowing 18 full well that we don't have a blank check to be 19 able to write, unfortunately, for many of you, and 20 the good work that you do. 21 In addition to that, though, we're looking -- 22 we know that legislation impacts your daily -- the 23 things you do on a daily basis. And that there may 24 be regulations, that if you can bring up, that we 25 might be able to deal with the specific agencies 1 that fall under the executive branch, and either, 2 push, or through legislation, have an impact on 3 that, that can help you. 4 So, you needn't confine it to just the 5 budget. 6 Our two committees are closely tied 7 together, and that's why we're both here. A lot of 8 the things that might start within Social Services 9 spill over to Children and Families, and vice versa. 10 So, we work very closely together, in both -- 11 in all of these different areas, and really are 12 committed to trying to help. 13 The specific help, that's really for you to 14 bring some of the things up that we can take to 15 Albany. 16 But with that, and before we get started, 17 I'll turn it over to Senator Savino. 18 And, thank you all again for being here. 19 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you, Senator Gallivan. 20 I also want to thank Senator Robach for 21 hosting us here in Rochester. 22 I'll be brief, because we really want to hear 23 from you, as opposed to listening to the three of 24 us. 25 As Senator Gallivan said, this is the third 1 in a series of roundtables we've done outside the 2 State Capitol. We want to kind of bring the Senate 3 to the people. 4 Last year, many of those of you in this room, 5 and organizations like yours around the state, 6 were invaluable in guiding us through the budget 7 process. 8 Last year's budget was brutal. It was a 9 $10 1/2 billion deficit that we had to close, and a 10 lot of those cuts directly affected programs that 11 you all work in and care about. 12 This year it's not so bad; but, yet, and 13 still, there a lot of cuts to TANF-funded 14 programs. 15 The Governor is still recommending zeroing 16 out many of the things that we care about. There's 17 not enough restoration. 18 And as Senator Gallivan said, it's not just 19 about putting money back. You know, we're going to 20 do what we can to restore it. But, it's also about 21 finding ways to reduce the burden upon some of the 22 service providers, so that they can maximize the 23 money they get from the State, and they don't waste 24 it on duplicative, redundant paperwork reporting, or 25 any of the other silly requirements we sometime 1 impose upon you. 2 So, we're going to be focusing on a lot of 3 stuff this year. 4 Those of you who deal with youth, know, that 5 juvenile-justice reform is front and center in the 6 Governor's budget. It's going to impact upstate and 7 downstate. 8 The loss of child-care slots, in my opinion, 9 is devastating. And I think we need, as service 10 providers, to start to talk about child care in a 11 different way. It's not an entitlement program. 12 It's not an assistance program. It should be part 13 and parcel of our economic development programs. 14 It's about making work pay again; giving 15 women the supports they need to stay in the 16 workforce. 17 So, we have to start talking about these 18 things differently. You know? 19 The Governor wants us to do everything we can 20 on job creation. 21 Well, if we create jobs, we then have to 22 create the supports that keep people in those 23 jobs we've created. 24 So, I welcome you all here today, to 25 participate, and, I guess we should get started. 1 SENATOR GALLIVAN: We are -- when you come up 2 to speak, if you could just start right in the front 3 row, right in front of us, if there's more than one. 4 Obviously, first seat, second seat. 5 SENATOR SAVINO: Yeah, we have three seats 6 here in the front. 7 So, first up is, Jacqueline Cady -- oh -- on 8 early child-care education, and the Early Childhood 9 Initiative. 10 Do we have testimony? Written/printed 11 testimony? 12 JACQUELINE CADY: No. I think -- I could 13 hand it you to. I just have two copies. 14 SENATOR SAVINO: Just two? All right. 15 Well, one, two -- that will do. 16 Thank you. 17 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you. 18 JACQUELINE CADY: I thank you very much for 19 an opportunity to speak today. 20 I'm Jacqueline Cady. I'm a member, and the 21 past chair, of the Rochester Early Childhood 22 Initiative. 23 The announcement for this hearing asked for 24 suggestions on efficiencies, economies, in human 25 services. 1 And, I'm here to say that, pretty much what 2 Senator Savino said: That New York State needs to 3 invest in services, with a proven payback; services 4 in early care and education. 5 We know that most brain development happens 6 before the age of three. A dollar invested in 7 high-quality early education pays back a minimum 8 of seven. 9 And I know Senator Robach thinks: Oh, I've 10 heard this so many times. 11 In some studies, it even shows that there's a 12 $17 payback for that dollar that you invest in 13 quality early education. 14 And that payback is in the avoidance of later 15 social costs. 16 So, look at that juvenile justice that's a 17 priority for the State. Think about teen pregnancy, 18 incarceration, unemployment. These investments in 19 early education can really make a difference. 20 So, how can New York State take advantage of 21 what we know about early education? 22 Let's start at the beginning. 23 At birth, nurse-family partnership is an 24 evidence-based program. Gives enormous payback to 25 both the mother and the child. The program pays 1 for itself by the time the child is six. 2 And, there's little to no funding for this in 3 New York State. 4 Right now, there's a proposal on the table 5 for a very modest, a $5 million, fund to support a 6 little bit of nurse-family partnership. 7 I wish you would give your support to that. 8 The biggest piece of this, again, as 9 Senator Savino said, for children, birth into school 10 age, we need more comprehensive support through the 11 child-care subsidies. 12 For us in Rochester, subsidies are the 13 baseline. This is how we get to ask at-risk 14 children, and their families, with the opportunity 15 for quality early education. 16 So, go back to where we started here: The 17 opportunity for that critical early brain 18 development. 19 We need two things. 20 And the first one I think is right up your 21 alley, of saying: How could you possibly do more 22 with less? 23 The first thing is: Consistent quality 24 standards across the state. 25 I looked at the maps on your websites. 1 And I would say, for Senator Gallivan, in the 2 several counties that you represent, you would find 3 that no two have the same regulations. 4 For Monroe County, and the seven surrounding 5 counties, no two have the same regulations for child 6 care. 7 A third of the children who are in child care 8 are in what's called "legally exempt child care." 9 There are no quality standards. There's no 10 requirement for training. There is precious little 11 oversight of those who are in legally exempt care. 12 Here in Monroe County, the infrastructure of 13 our quality child care is threatened because 14 caregivers are not paid when children are absent. 15 So, you can't run a business like that, and 16 say: I've got to meet ratio. I've got to meet 17 standards. I can't add another child to this 18 classroom. But, these two are absent today, so I 19 don't get any funding for these kids, and I can't do 20 anything to make that up. 21 These problems arise because there isn't 22 any statewide standard. 23 Setting consistent criteria and standards 24 across the state could be carried out without 25 significant dollar implications, and would make 1 great strides to ensure that the dollars we 2 spend are providing quality early education. 3 The second thing, of course, is that more 4 funding is needed for subsidies to reach more 5 families. 6 In Monroe, flat and reduced State funding has 7 reduced our headcount, from about 13,000, 10 years 8 ago, to under 7,000 this year. We're serving about 9 half of the children with subsidies that we did 10 10 years ago. 11 Again, a dollar invested in high-quality care 12 pays back a minimum of $7. Then, here's a place 13 to reduce New York State costs, by investing now in 14 quality care for young children. 15 I would mention another program, early 16 intervention services, which I'm sure you have heard 17 about, have been decimated, with the reimbursement 18 rates for 2012 equal to those of 1992; 20 years 19 ago. 20 Many providers in our county have stopped 21 offering this service. They can't afford to 22 subsidize it. They've been subsidizing it out of 23 their other income streams. They can't do it 24 anymore. 25 I know that, in Albany, they've made 1 strides toward getting insurance coverage, 2 third-party payers, for some of this early 3 intervention service. 4 The Governor is recommending a total 5 restructure of early intervention services. 6 And, ultimately, that may be good. What 7 we've got now is not working. 8 But in the meantime, if there isn't some kind 9 of an increase -- and folks are specifically 10 asking for a restoration to the reimbursement rate 11 that they got just a year ago -- if there's not some 12 restoration of those rates, we're going to lose the 13 rest of our quality early intervention providers in 14 Monroe County. They just cannot afford to provide 15 that service. 16 I would ask you to think about this: We're 17 talking about early intervention. We're talking 18 about kids who are zero, 1, 2, and putting those 19 families in a situation where they might have to 20 wait six months, or nine months, for an evaluation 21 to have services. 22 When you're one, waiting 9 months for 23 services is half your life. That's crazy. 24 Again, this is where most brain development 25 occurs. We really need to serve these young 1 people. 2 Pre-K is a shining -- okay, new program: 3 Pre-K is a shining star of our early education. 4 80 percent of the city of Rochester 5 4-year-olds are in the highest quality pre-K 6 programs. 7 Funding has been flat for many years. 8 Neither the community agencies, nor our city school 9 district, received adequate funding to fully fund 10 this excellent investment in young children. 11 The Regents had put forward a proposal to put 12 a little more funding back in pre-K. 13 We certainly support that. 14 Nurse-family partnership and early 15 intervention are really in the purview of the 16 Health Department. 17 Subsidies are in OCFS. 18 Pre-K is in the State Education Department. 19 These systems need to work together. 20 I would ask you to think of a continuum of 21 integrated services for our many at-risk children. 22 Because you have leadership roles in 23 New York, I ask you to stand up for young children, 24 to invest more resources in quality early education. 25 Use your leadership to represent these young 1 people. They can't speak for themselves. 2 Thank you. 3 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you. 4 I just -- wait. Before you get away, 5 Jacqueline, two points. 6 The "early intervention" piece, there's been 7 some discussion there. 8 Actually, there's was some discussion 9 yesterday at the State hearing, the budget hearing, 10 on Health. 11 The other issue hanging over that -- those 12 programs, is this 1115 waiver. 13 Have you had any conversations with any of 14 the service providers about what this "1115 waiver" 15 issue would do to them? 16 JACQUELINE CADY: To them? No, I can't 17 answer that. 18 Sorry. 19 SENATOR SAVINO: It's -- you may start 20 hearing from them. It's, apparently -- 21 JACQUELINE CADY: Somebody else -- 22 SENATOR SAVINO: I see some people shaking 23 their heads. 24 JACQUELINE CADY: -- will speak about it. 25 SENATOR SAVINO: They'll talk about it. 1 JACQUELINE CADY: I'm not the one. 2 SENATOR SAVINO: It's very complicated. 3 On pre-K, though, I'm actually quite 4 surprised, and pleased to hear, that 80 percent of 5 your 4-year-olds in Rochester are in universal 6 pre-K. 7 We don't have that anywhere else in the 8 state, because most of the program -- most of the 9 school districts claim that there are so many 10 complications in implementing UPK; that you either 11 have to have a certain, you know, classroom sizes, 12 or teachers with certain evalu- -- you know, certain 13 skills, and certain -- 14 Yeah, he's shaking his head in back there. 15 -- so they don't even do it. 16 JACQUELINE CADY: Right. We've got a long 17 history in Rochester. Our early childhood 18 initiative is 20 years old -- 19 SENATOR ROBACH: Head Start. 20 JACQUELINE CADY: -- and was started by, 21 really, Mario Cuomo in 1990, which he declared 22 "The decade of the young child." 23 We formed a community collaboration at that 24 time. We began to work on accreditation. 25 When Speaker Silver put forward what he 1 called the "Ladder Program," which was pre-K, we 2 were really ready for that, and worked with the 3 school district to write a pre-K program. 4 Our children are about 55 percent in 5 community-based agencies, right now. 6 We have 15-year evaluation project that 7 shows our pre-K classrooms are -- rate, 6 on a 8 7-point scale. They're just excellent quality. 9 Whether you're in the school-district 10 program, we got about 950 children; or in a 11 community agency, about 1,050 children. 12 SENATOR SAVINO: Do most of those children go 13 on to kindergarten, or do they have a break in -- in 14 their education? 15 Because, you know, kindergarten's not a 16 requirement. 17 JACQUELINE CADY: Right. Most of them -- 18 SENATOR SAVINO: What we see in the city of 19 New York is different now. 20 JACQUELINE CADY: Yeah, most of them. 21 We've got just 2,000 in pre-K this year. 22 We have 2,500 in our incoming city school 23 district kindergarten. 24 SENATOR SAVINO: And do you do center-based 25 pre-K -- center-based kindergarten, for those that 1 don't -- 2 JACQUELINE CADY: No, because we have 3 full-day kindergarten. 4 SENATOR SAVINO: Hmm, interesting. 5 JACQUELINE CADY: The child-care centers used 6 to have kindergarten. Maybe a few do, but most of 7 them do not anymore, because, in the city school 8 district, they've got full-day kindergarten; which, 9 again, we understand is threatened across the state 10 with education dollars. 11 SENATOR SAVINO:: Very good. Thank you. 12 SENATOR ROBACH: Jackie, let me just say too, 13 I chair the Human Services Budget Subcommittee. 14 So, we go out with the Assembly, and have the 15 talk, and then go to the conference committees. 16 We're going to do that. 17 And, there's really, like, not too much new 18 money, but I think -- I'm going to make it, and I 19 think it will end up in our version of the budget. 20 We're going to adjust some money, to put more money 21 into straight child care. 22 And then, on the -- you know, I've heard your 23 story, you've heard mine. 24 On early intervention, you know, I've lived 25 it. 1 JACQUELINE CADY: Yeah, I know. 2 SENATOR ROBACH: I mean, I have a 3 hearing-impaired kid -- 4 JACQUELINE CADY: I know. 5 SENATOR ROBACH: -- whose life completely got 6 changed by the right treatment modality, getting in 7 that Excellus program at Al Sigl, and was told, at 8 two: This kid won't go to college, like your other 9 kids. 10 That's a hard thing to hear, as a parent, and 11 have your spouse look at you, and go, you know: 12 What are you going to do about it? 13 And, I go: I don't know what I'm going to do 14 about it. 15 But, you know, a good story: Because of that 16 early intervention, and getting the right program, 17 that child is now 23; has gone to college, has a 18 pretty good job. She's the star -- I'll do the 19 commercial -- of Shear Ego in Pittsford. 20 Go there and get your hair cut. Ask for 21 Rachel. 22 [Laughter.] 23 SENATOR ROBACH: But, she's doing really 24 good, and it's because of that. 25 So, we're going to really look at these 1 things. 2 JACQUELINE CADY: Thank you. 3 SENATOR ROBACH: This is going to be a 4 challenge, but I think we're committed to try to 5 move some things around. 6 JACQUELINE CADY: Thank you very much. 7 SENATOR ROBACH: Okay, thank you. 8 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you. 9 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Mark Wickham. 10 MARK WICKHAM: Good afternoon. 11 My name is Mark Wickham, and I'm the new 12 hot-out-of-the-box CEO of Catholic Family Center, 13 following in the shoes of Carolyn Portanova, who 14 was a tireless advocate -- 15 SENATOR ROBACH: We've heard the name. 16 [Laughter.] 17 MARK WICKHAM: Yeah. 18 -- who was a tireless advocate for many, many 19 years here. 20 So, I'm hopeful that I can fill her shoes. 21 I'll make sure that I make some referrals to Rachel. 22 I'm not sure that I need too much of it myself, 23 but -- 24 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Mark, if I may, before you 25 get started, and this is -- really is for everyone 1 who's providing testimony today: It's very helpful 2 to us that you provide this. And because we have 3 it, you needn't read it all. 4 MARK WICKHAM: Oh, uh-huh. Well, that's 5 good. 6 SENATOR GALLIVAN: But I think what becomes 7 appropriate is, you know, bring up the main points 8 that you really want to stress. 9 SENATOR SAVINO: Uh-huh. 10 MARK WICKHAM: Sure. 11 SENATOR GALLIVAN: And we, of course, will 12 read all of it, but, it might save -- 13 MARK WICKHAM: Some time. 14 SENATOR GALLIVAN: -- might save you a little 15 bit of time, because we don't have water for you. 16 MARK WICKHAM: Yes, that's great. Thank you. 17 I appreciate that. 18 As you read through this, you'll see 19 Catholic Family Center has been around since 1917, 20 and we provide services to over -- pretty close to 21 40,000 individuals in the Monroe County area. 22 And it's, really, we provide services for 23 people in the areas of behavioral health, housing 24 services, family services, and workforce 25 development. 1 The pieces that I want to really focus on are 2 some of the critical, necessary services and 3 programs we offer. 4 One of the things that's important, is to 5 understand the economic impact of organizations like 6 ours on a community. 7 We are approximately 460 employees throughout 8 our organization, whom we pay $16 1/2 million to. 9 And that was in 2011. 10 And, we spent over $9 million in services and 11 good rent and supplies and equipment in our 12 community. 13 Many of our programs result in real savings 14 to New York State taxpayers, and that's really what 15 this is about. 16 You know, what people really want to know is: 17 Where are we saving money? 18 And, not only are we saving money, but what 19 are those outcomes that we're providing? And how 20 does it equate into saving money in our area -- in 21 our county; in particular, Monroe? 22 For example: We serviced 163 families and 23 421 children last year. And the annual cost of our 24 program which works with families and the children, 25 is about $1,100. So, that equates to an annual 1 budget of about $465,000. 2 If you looked at the annual cost for regular 3 foster-care placement in Monroe County, it's 4 approximately $24,000. 5 So even if you took one-fourth of those 6 children that we served and placed them into regular 7 foster care, that would be $2 1/2 million. 8 So there's real cost savings in terms of what 9 we do. 10 More than 70 percent of our support and 11 revenue comes from government, including service 12 contracts and fee-for-services and payments for 13 Medicaid. 14 The support -- this government support is 15 largely from New York State, either directly through 16 Monroe County or through the State. 17 One of the biggest issues that we have is 18 prompt payment. What we're finding, across the 19 board, is, we don't get paid in a timely fashion. 20 There are times that we're waiting 6, 9, 21 12 months. So, we're providing the service, and 22 we're not getting the payment. 23 SENATOR ROBACH: From contract to Medicaid, 24 or all? 25 MARK WICKHAM: From contracts, typically, 1 yeah. 2 Medicaid is -- right now, it's set up as a 3 fee-for-service; so, that's based on our providing 4 services and our getting reimbursed on that. 5 And I'll talk a bit about the OMIG piece, 6 but, all in all, it's really contracting. It's 7 those contracts that we have, which are, we would 8 call them "expense-based contracts." So, we have 9 the -- we're going to provide the service. We're 10 not -- it's not, we're billing Medicaid, or 11 anything. We're expecting that money to come in. 12 And most of my colleagues will say the same 13 thing: It creates a huge cash-flow problem for 14 us. 15 So, if we're outlaying -- you know, we have 16 about $15 1/2 million worth of contract services. 17 And if we're outlying 7.5 million, for 6, 9, 18 10 months, that's -- that's huge. 19 So we end up having to do is, dip into our 20 credit line, which then costs more money, which we 21 can't charge off. We have to incur that cost. 22 So, prompt contracting is critical, going 23 forward. 24 We understand that it's -- you know, that 25 it's important to delay a bit, but to delay 6, 8, 1 10 months, just, it makes it almost impossible 2 for us to continue providing the care to people. 3 So, prompt contracting. 4 The other one is master contracting. 5 We service many -- we service whole families. 6 So, we may have people, or children in particular, 7 programs, in various areas, who might have some 8 families in some other programs, but the funding 9 streams are very different. 10 So what ends up happening, is, we -- and 11 they're siloed. They're just very siloed. So 12 we'll -- we're waiting on money to provide care, 13 with the child, or -- and/or family. 14 It would be much easier, if what we could do 15 is, just have one contract. It just flows 16 through, so we can service the whole family, and 17 break down the silos within the -- it's, really, a 18 lot of the children services. 19 And, I think, from my standpoint, it will 20 just make it much easier to deliver services. 21 The other piece that doesn't really ever get 22 talked about is the administrative costs associated 23 with, you know, going -- trying to stay on top of 24 getting the money. 25 The more contracts you have, the more 1 people we have to have to manage it. 2 So, it would be less administrative costs 3 across the board, at least on our end, if we could 4 just have central, or, really, master contracting. 5 The other pieces, one of the other 6 interesting points I wanted to hit was, in an effort 7 to address the issue, this was related to -- 8 I just lost my place here. Excuse me. 9 SENATOR SAVINO: It's non-profit 10 compensation. I read it already. 11 [Laughter.] 12 MARK WICKHAM: Well, thank you. 13 SENATOR SAVINO: This is where they took the 14 cheap shot at you guys. 15 MARK WICKHAM: The Office of Medicaid 16 Inspector General, last year, both Houses passed 17 unanimously, or -- 18 (Off-camera comment.) 19 MARK WICKHAM: -- yeah, it was unanimously, 20 the OMIG reform legislation, which Catholic Family 21 Center strongly supported. 22 The Governor chose not to sign that bill. 23 CSC certainly believes that the efforts to 24 eliminate fraud, waste, and abuse, and corruption, 25 is critically important. We believe that that's 1 important. 2 At the same time, we are -- we, and similar 3 providers, are heavily burdened, financially, and 4 otherwise, by the OMIG conducts and audits. 5 For example: What we have, are five 6 full-time staff there, are set up within our 7 organization to, basically, deal with compliance. 8 And that's -- that's regulated. We have to 9 do that. We have to be watching ourselves, and I 10 think that's important. We don't think that that's 11 not important. 12 But, one of the things that's most 13 disturbing, is that we believe the State, or OMIG, 14 took an approach that they were looking at finding 15 money to help pay for bills. 16 Well, I don't know what bills, but, you know, 17 they were out to get money. 18 And, so, we weren't committing fraud. 19 Organizations like ours were not committing fraud. 20 We're catching particular pieces, and we turn them 21 in. That's what compliance does. 22 So, what we really would like to see -- I 23 would like to see, our organization and a lot of 24 executives would like to see -- are what are the 25 protocols? 1 Share with us the protocols of what they're 2 looking for. What is OMIG looking for when they 3 come in to do audits? 4 Let us know. 5 I mean, because, from a compliance 6 standpoint, we should know, so that we're monitoring 7 ourselves and being able to report issues as they 8 come up. 9 Moving on here. I'll try to speed this up. 10 Finally, in the Governor's proposal budget, 11 as well as the executive order that he signed 12 subsequently, it contains language that 75 -- oh. 13 I'm going to circle back, because we actually 14 added something in here. 15 The Governor just recently signed an 16 executive order regarding administrative costs and 17 overhead, in addition to executive comp. 18 One of the things that we want to say is: 19 We're very interested in making sure we keep 20 administrative overhead low. All of us are 21 committed to that in our industry. 22 We do not want that to go up, but, with 23 increased regulations, one that I just talked about 24 with OMIG, it's hard to do that. It's very 25 difficult. But, we want to work hand in hand, and 1 partner -- in partnership with the state government, 2 to figure out how to do it. But, to just set 3 arbitrary numbers, like, 15 percent across the 4 board, when we have an approved federal rate at 5 17.1, I don't -- I don't know, where does that come 6 from? 7 So, we want to work hand in hand, and get to 8 places that I think will work for the State, and for 9 our organizations. 10 Not-for-profit overhead costs project -- cost 11 project, the collaborative effort of the 12 Urban Institute of the Center of Philanthropy of 13 Indiana University issued a report entitled 14 "Getting What We Pay For: Low Overhead Limits 15 Not-For-Profits' Effectiveness." [sic.] 16 The project studied nine not-for-profit 17 organizations, ranging in size, from under 18 1 million, to over 40 million, in annual 19 expenditures. 20 They found that arbitrarily low overhead 21 leads to a limited ability for an organization to 22 manage their finances, fund-raise, train and develop 23 staff, and develop the IT infrastructure that's 24 critical to effectively perform in today's world. 25 So there's enough research out there to 1 support monitoring and watching overhead, but it's 2 important for us to do it in a responsible way. 3 I'll conclude by saying: I want to thank you 4 for taking time to come out into the community, and 5 meet with the folks like us, so that we can share 6 our concerns. 7 And, more importantly, it's not so much 8 sharing our concerns. It's, more, what can we do 9 to help you? 10 That's what we're here to do. 11 We're here to help our communities, to help 12 people to get better, to get them back to work, and 13 to make them productive members of our society. 14 That's what we're here to do. And we're 15 successful in that, every year. 16 So, we're here to tell the story, and make 17 sure we get the word out, and have you go back to 18 Albany and support what we do, because what we do is 19 valuable, important. 20 And, as you said, Senator Savino, we do have 21 economic impact in these communities, that's very 22 important. 23 I thank you for your time today. 24 SENATOR SAVINO:: Thank you. 25 Wait, don't go. 1 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Go ahead. 2 SENATOR SAVINO: I'll go first. Ladies 3 first. 4 You mentioned something that's kind of 5 intriguing: The idea of a master contract. 6 You know, I've been around this world long 7 enough now that I remember when you had one 8 commissioner of Social Service. Now you have OCFS, 9 and OTDA, and OPWDD, and whatever the "alphabet soup 10 of the year" is in these agencies. 11 MARK WICKHAM: Everything. 12 SENATOR SAVINO: Back when you had one state 13 commissioner of Social Services, and then you had 14 all of the services under the big umbrella, how did 15 they contract? 16 Did they have these silos of funding then? 17 Or, do you remember? 18 Does anybody remember? 19 MARK WICKHAM: I don't remember that. I 20 don't know. 21 SENATOR SAVINO:: So, walk me through this, 22 where -- so you have a family. Let's assume you're 23 servicing a family, where the mother is in 24 substance-abuse treatment, the children are in 25 foster care. One of them may need 1 developmental-disability services. The other one 2 might be in special ed, and family therapy. 3 MARK WICKHAM: Uh-huh? 4 SENATOR SAVINO: So, how many different 5 service funding streams are existing in that -- 6 MARK WICKHAM: Five. 7 SENATOR SAVINO: -- the life of that family? 8 MARK WICKHAM: You just mentioned five. 9 SENATOR SAVINO: Five. 10 So you would have to, essentially, contract 11 with five different -- 12 MARK WICKHAM: Yes. Five different 13 government organizations to provide services to one 14 family. 15 SENATOR SAVINO:: I'm trying to figure out 16 how we would streamline that into one state 17 contract. Who would administer it? 18 I guess -- I don't know, but that's an 19 intriguing idea, and it's something we should 20 explore. 21 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Yeah, and there's a model 22 right now, with the advent of the regional economic 23 development councils. 24 MARK WICKHAM: Yes. 25 SENATOR GALLIVAN: They've put together what 1 they're calling "consolidated funding 2 application" -- 3 MARK WICKHAM: Yes. 4 SENATOR GALLIVAN: -- that brings in, now, 5 I think it's -- it's either 12 or 14 agencies, where 6 they're making one application, comes to a central 7 place, and then gets farmed out. 8 MARK WICKHAM: Yes, and then it goes out. 9 SENATOR GALLIVAN: That might be a good 10 model. We don't know it's working yet. The goal is 11 to bring in more state agencies. But, that might be 12 a good model for us to look at, for you to look at, 13 and then comment on that, how that then might be 14 able to apply in [unintelligible] social services. 15 MARK WICKHAM: Absolutely. 16 SENATOR GALLIVAN: But that's somewhat new -- 17 MARK WICKHAM: Yes. 18 SENATOR GALLIVAN: -- and the jury is out on 19 it. 20 MARK WICKHAM: Yeah. 21 Well, we think that we're uniquely positioned 22 because we provide all of those five services as -- 23 to be a pilot organization, to even try it. Just 24 try it in a couple organizations across the state. 25 But that's something that we definitely would 1 look at, Senator. 2 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Some of the United Ways 3 out west and around Albany have spoken about this as 4 well -- 5 MARK WICKHAM: Yes. 6 SENATOR GALLIVAN: -- so, you're not alone. 7 There's other people speaking up. 8 What can you do? 9 Everybody keeps speaking up. 10 MARK WICKHAM: Yeah. 11 SENATOR GALLIVAN: We keep bringing up the 12 things -- 13 MARK WICKHAM: Thank you. 14 SENATOR GALLIVAN: -- not just to our 15 attention, but to anybody who will listen, that 16 might be able to make a difference, and try to do 17 something about it. 18 The OMIG issue, a number of the issues you 19 spoke about, we are -- we are trying to address the 20 OMIG issue specifically. 21 We've heard horror story after horror story 22 across the state. We were not -- we passed the 23 legislation. You mentioned the Governor didn't sign 24 it. We are looking to address it, to try to -- 25 MARK WICKHAM: Thank you. 1 SENATOR GALLIVAN: -- come to some common 2 agreement with the Governor's Office, so that it's 3 done legitimately, and not just the money grab like 4 it was. 5 MARK WICKHAM: Yes, thank you. 6 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Like many of us think it 7 was. 8 MARK WICKHAM: Yeah, no, we appreciate that, 9 and any help we can get. 10 The change in that, from our standpoint, is 11 let us know what we can do to help in this process. 12 It's not so much that we're -- we're out here 13 providing the care, and spending -- we want to put 14 as much money, and keep as much money, in the 15 programs. We don't want to be taking money out. 16 And this, in particular, it starts to take 17 money out of programs, especially when you have to 18 do paybacks, which in -- you know, you've heard 19 the horror stories. The paybacks, which are 20 astronomical, will put not-for-profits out of 21 business. Good not-for-profits. 22 SENATOR SAVINO:: Well, that, and quite 23 frankly, I found it appalling that that executive 24 order was signed, limiting executive compensation of 25 the not-for-profits to, what is it, $199,000 a year? 1 MARK WICKHAM: Yes. 2 SENATOR SAVINO: Well, you know, that was 3 gratuitous in many ways, because it's only for 4 executives whose salary is 75 percent of Medicaid 5 money. 6 MARK WICKHAM: Yes. 7 SENATOR SAVINO: Many of -- the only people 8 that are going to get hurt by this, are the small 9 not-for-profit organizations. It's going be 10 difficult to recruit or retain, you know, competent 11 people -- 12 MARK WICKHAM: Yes. 13 SENATOR SAVINO: -- who want to run these 14 programs. 15 The larger agencies, the hospitals, their 16 funding streams come from multiple sources. 17 MARK WICKHAM: Yes. 18 SENATOR SAVINO: So, they're not really going 19 to be affected by it. 20 And I really think that -- you know, I think 21 more people need to speak up about that, because it 22 really was a gratuitous shot at people who have been 23 struggling for the past five years to provide 24 services to, you know, the most vulnerable people in 25 our state, as if, you know, you're all just getting 1 rich off of social service programs. 2 MARK WICKHAM: Thank you. 3 SENATOR SAVINO: It's the most ludicrous 4 thing in the world. 5 MARK WICKHAM: Thank you. 6 SENATOR SAVINO:: I just have to say, I find 7 it so offensive. I really do. 8 MARK WICKHAM: Well, we really thank you for 9 this leadership. 10 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you. 11 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you. 12 MARK WICKHAM: Thank you very much. 13 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Ann Marie Cook. 14 Senator Robach had to leave. He had a prior 15 meeting scheduled with Rochester's own 16 Lieutenant Governor Duffy, and the Rochester 17 Business Alliance. 18 And, he did want me to let everybody know, he 19 is going to try to work his way back here. 20 ANN MARIE COOK: Senator Gallivan and 21 Senator Savino, I want to thank you very much for 22 holding this public hearing today in Rochester. 23 LifeSpan is a private not-for-profit 24 organization that serves older adults and 25 caregivers. 1 Last year, we served about 25,000 older 2 adults in the Finger Lakes Region. 3 We have multiple programs, about 4 30 different programs and services, everything 5 from: 6 The New York State Ombudsman Program in this 7 region; 8 We work with the Office of People with 9 Developmental Disabilities, so I'm familiar with the 10 1115 waiver; 11 RSVP New York Connects; 12 And, we also operate the New York State 13 Coalition on the Prevention of Elder Abuse, and, the 14 New York State Caregiving and Respite Coalition. 15 And, we contract with five different state 16 agencies. And that's important in my remarks. 17 As you know, all not-for-profits, you know, 18 are struggling to serve an ever-increasing client 19 base, especially in this economic downturn, and with 20 State budget cuts. 21 And, certainly, that's been true at LifeSpan. 22 And I think we have the addition of an 23 incredible age wave that we're experiencing in 24 New York State. The ever-increasing older adult 25 population, coupled with this economic downturn, has 1 caused a demand for services, quite frankly, like 2 we've never seen before. 3 A couple of examples of that: In just a 4 three-month period last year, at the end of the 5 year, we had 6,500 calls from older adults 6 concerned about health insurance, although, the 7 State Health Insurance Information Program was cut 8 last year. 9 And this number for our region, of course, 10 was exacerbated by the Kodak announcement of 11 bankruptcy, in which we have 25,000 retirees here 12 from Kodak who are worried about their health 13 insurance, and what to do. 14 I had to field those calls with 1.5 FTEs, 15 and, you know, it ended up being, of course, 16 "all hands on deck," to make sure we're serving 17 people, but these people are desperate in need of 18 information so that they can make informed 19 decisions. 20 Second thing I wanted to talk about is: 21 LifeSpan was thrilled to participate with 22 Cornell University and the New York City Department 23 for the Aging, on the first-ever New York State 24 Elder Abuse Prevalence and Incidence Study. 25 It's the second-largest study ever done on 1 elder abuse in the world. 2 And, just a -- very briefly: For every one 3 case we know about elder abuse in this state, 4 24 case go unreported. 260,000 older New Yorkers 5 were abused in a one-year period, with financial 6 exploitation is the primary form of abuse. 7 Simultaneous -- almost simultaneous to the 8 release of this report, New York State, in last 9 year's budget, cut elder-abuse-prevention funding by 10 50 percent. 11 It's been devastating. 12 We also extrapolated the amount of the cost 13 to New York State, in terms of elder-abuse financial 14 exploitation, and we estimate that it cost New York 15 State $3 billion a year, because these older 16 adults can't go back to work, they can't recover 17 those funds; they have no other choice but to go on 18 Medicaid, and get State funds to help them. 19 Despite all of this -- and I could talk for 20 hours, obviously, about the issues of older 21 adults -- with the Governor coming out, saying he 22 did want to restrict not-for-profits, which is 23 fine with me, quite frankly, to 15 percent of 24 administrative funds, I wanted to talk about some 25 ways in which we can do that, because we all want 1 to put more money back into programs. 2 First, of course, Mark mentioned this, the 3 speaker before me: Contract delays and late 4 payments. 5 Despite the "prompt contracting" law of a few 6 years ago, I, quite frankly, have seen very little 7 relief. 8 I just want to talk about one contract that 9 I had with the State, in which it took 14 months 10 to execute. 11 But during that time, I had to hire staff, I 12 had to do reports, I had to meet with agency staff 13 to talk about it. 14 We have a wonderful program here. 15 And every time I asked about, "What seems to 16 be the problem with the contract, and then payment?" 17 I was told, they're short in the state agency, and, 18 unfortunately, that's the best that they could do. 19 But, I'm expected to up front all that money 20 before payment. 21 So, I don't know what the answer is to the 22 delays in payments, but it certainly has an 23 effect on not-for-profits, and many have to borrow, 24 waiting for those payments. 25 Second thing I would like to talk about is, 1 the sheer redundancy in documentation submission; 2 and request that we create a centralized system of 3 documents. 4 I'll give you an example here, too. 5 We're all required to fill out what's called 6 a "vendor responsibility form," and, there is an 7 electronic form. 8 Many of us fill that out; and many state 9 agencies take that form, but not all state agencies. 10 And, we can't print off that form and send it to 11 those that require us to mail it. It's a different 12 form. 13 The redundancy of information is just 14 incredible. 15 And, also, each state agency requires a 16 whole list of information from us each year. 17 We don't mind providing that information, but 18 if we could just upload it, or download it, whatever 19 you call it, into one centralized system, and each 20 state agency look at that, it would save us time, 21 and I'm assuming it would save the state agencies 22 time. 23 The third point is: Centralized monitoring 24 and auditing. 25 I talked about LifeSpan; contracts with 1 five different state agencies. 2 I, quite frankly, host a whole slew of State 3 people that are in and out of our agency every 4 day -- we have a conference room devoted to them -- 5 all looking for different information, oftentimes 6 coming with conflicting information about how they 7 would like us to keep it. 8 But, if there was a way in which they could 9 work toward a single audit, in which, if each state 10 agency came in for a particular information, they 11 looked at that, but not everything all at once. 12 I have to say, in the 16 years I have been 13 at LifeSpan, we have never received serious 14 compliance or fiscal issues, but I still host these 15 people all of the time. 16 And, also, I'm required, of course, to do an 17 outside audit, that not-for-profits are required to 18 do. 19 So, I would like this single-audit approach 20 looked at, so that we can help reduce our 21 administrative costs and move more money, of course, 22 where it needs to be, to help folks. 23 And one final regulatory issue I would like 24 to talk about is, really, the finger-imaging for 25 older adults and food stamps; and request that 1 this requirement be eliminated for food-stamp-only 2 applicants. 3 The State, quite frankly, has requested that 4 all food-stamp applicants be finger-imagined, even 5 those in their 80s and 90s. 6 I'll have to tell you, in the last 7 two years, I have never seen the needs of older 8 adults like I have seen now. It's the first time 9 in which I have seen that we're running out of 10 emergency food almost weekly for older adults in 11 our senior centers. They're in desperate need of 12 just the basic needs. 13 And trying to find those, and trying to get 14 them eligible for food stamps, which would help, 15 this requirement seems ridiculous to me. 16 And, I would ask that it be looked at, and 17 eliminated. 18 I want to thank you for your time. 19 We really appreciate this, as we're all 20 trying to serve, I think, people, in general. 21 I think that we have to looked at these 22 administrative changes that would help us to get the 23 money where it needs to be; and, in my case, to 24 older New Yorkers. 25 1 SENATOR SAVINO:: On the food stamp 2 finger-imaging issue, I was of the impression 3 that -- first of all, the Governor, you heard him in 4 his State of the State, say, that he's going to 5 eliminate the waiver on that. 6 But I was under the impression, it was only 7 the city of New York that continued that practice in 8 the state. That, the rest of the counties aren't 9 currently requiring food-stamp applicants to be 10 finger-imagined. 11 ANN MARIE COOK: There are other counties in 12 the state that are requiring that, or looking at 13 that. 14 SENATOR SAVINO: Yeah. So I guess, then, the 15 good news is, the Governor -- it requires a waiver. 16 He's not going grant the waiver anymore. And 17 he's decided that this is unnecessary, as you 18 pointed out, for a whole host of reasons. 19 There may be people who will then try and 20 legislate it again, so, I think you need to talk as 21 often as you can about the importance of getting 22 food to hungry seniors. 23 And the idea of a senior, you know, at 24 80 years old, showing up at a welfare center to 25 get their fingerprint taken, is -- you know, it's 1 demeaning at that point in their life. 2 But, on the contract delays: So, you use 3 the example, where you had one contract, it took 4 14 months to get paid. 5 What would happen if your agency, or any 6 other agency, just decided they weren't going comply 7 with the contract while you waited to get paid? 8 What steps would the State take against 9 you? 10 ANN MARIE COOK: Well, I suppose -- I guess 11 that they would say we didn't fulfill the terms of 12 the contract. And, even though we outlaid that 13 money, they may not pay us. 14 SENATOR SAVINO: What prevents you from 15 saying the same thing about them? 16 I mean, I'm curious: Has anybody ever tried 17 to sue the State for failure to, like -- 18 So, you enter -- you respond to an RFP. You 19 enter into a contract with them. They grant it to 20 you. They give you a set of requirements that you 21 must meet, and, this is how much money you're 22 supposed to get paid. 23 Under any other circumstance, anywhere else 24 in the world, if someone did not live up to their 25 end of the bargain, the place to solve that would be 1 in the court. 2 Does anybody ever -- has anyone ever sued the 3 State for failure to comply with their end of the 4 bargain? 5 Or do you all just wait to get paid, 6 eventually? 7 ANN MARIE COOK: We wait to get paid. 8 I've never considered suing the State, I'll 9 be honest with you. But, it's an interesting idea. 10 SENATOR SAVINO:: I'm just surprised nobody 11 does it. 12 Anywhere, if it weren't the State that you 13 were doing business with, you would be down in 14 the -- you know, whatever the appropriate court 15 venue would be, suing for -- 16 Look, I see Brian in the back; he's shaking 17 his head. 18 But, it's -- it's -- it is kind of odd that 19 the State can get away with this; and, yet, you 20 guys continue to respond to RFPs, and do business 21 with the State. 22 ANN MARIE COOK: And I think, for us, I mean, 23 quite frankly, it's because we want to serve people. 24 You know -- 25 SENATOR SAVINO:: But they're taking 1 advantage of you. 2 Could be. 3 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Along those lines: The 4 contracts on the State end of it, does it say 5 anything about the requirement of payment by the 6 State within a certain time period? 7 ANN MARIE COOK: Well, I assume it -- I think 8 it does in the "prompt contracting" law. 9 Although, I have to tell you, in my 10 experience, even since it's been passed, nothing has 11 changed. 12 SENATOR GALLIVAN: No, nobody follows it. 13 ANN MARIE COOK: No one follows it. 14 SENATOR SAVINO: You see, I've done 15 "prompt pay" legislation, but it applies to the 16 construction industry. 17 So maybe what we should do, Senator Gallivan, 18 is take my "prompt pay" statute, and see if we can't 19 figure out -- 20 Barbara is sitting there. 21 -- if we can't -- apply it. 22 (Off-camera comment.) 23 SENATOR SAVINO: Right. 24 (Off-camera comment.) 25 SENATOR SAVINO: So we need to get it 1 through -- on these contracts. 2 SENATOR GALLIVAN: For the Human Services. 3 SENATOR SAVINO: For Human Services. 4 Hmm. 5 Well, we're gonna try again. 6 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Let me ask one other 7 question, if I may, back to the finger-imaging? 8 ANN MARIE COOK: Sure. Uh-huh? 9 SENATOR GALLIVAN: If finger-imaging is to 10 continue, and there's, you know, some laudable 11 goals for it, specifically the seniors, where 12 would you suggest the cutoff should be? 13 ANN MARIE COOK: I don't know. 14 SENATOR GALLIVAN: 80 years old? 15 70 years old? 40 years old? 100 years old? 16 ANN MARIE COOK: Senator, honestly, I work 17 with older adults, 60 and older, and I don't know 18 any of them that apply. And we have to encourage 19 them to apply. 20 I have to say, for older adults in 21 particular, there's a lot of shame involved in this. 22 SENATOR SAVINO: Uh-huh. 23 ANN MARIE COOK: So, if we get to the point 24 where we're encouraging them to apply because we 25 know they don't have enough food, one more barrier, 1 quite frankly, gets them where they don't do it. 2 I work with older adults, 60 and older; so 3 I'm going to say: 60. 4 SENATOR GALLIVAN: All right, thank you. 5 ANN MARIE COOK: Thank you. 6 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you. 7 Next is Rebecca Case Grammatico, senior 8 attorney at the Empire Justice Center, to talk about 9 foreclosure prevention services. 10 REBECCA CASE GRAMMATICO: So, yes, thank you 11 for -- Senator Gallivan specifically, for inviting 12 Empire Justice Center to this hearing. 13 And, yes, my name is Rebecca Case Grammatico. 14 I am the supervising attorney for the foreclosure 15 prevention unit in Rochester, New York, just down, 16 right across the way here. 17 Empire Justice Center is a statewide legal 18 services organization, with offices in Albany, 19 Rochester, White Plains, and in Long Island. 20 My office specifically provides support and 21 training to legal services in other community-based 22 organizations. 23 We undertake policy research and analysis; we 24 engage in legislative and administrative advocacy; 25 and we represent low-income-individuals, as well as 1 classes of New Yorkers in a wide range of 2 poverty-law issues, including consumer public 3 assistance, child care, and disability benefits. 4 On behalf of my organization, I would just 5 like to say, thank you both, for the opportunity 6 today; and for, specifically, your continued support 7 in these areas, and specifically, also, the 8 foreclosure prevention services campaign that we are 9 currently in the middle of. 10 Our office in -- our staff members in 11 Albany and Rochester are particularly appreciative 12 of your staff, and your work with us. 13 I briefly want to, sort of step away from 14 what my testimony is, and just mention the ability 15 to sue the State for inability to fund contracts 16 in a timely manner. 17 Number one: I don't know whether there's 18 some sort of an attorney's fees provision in that 19 opportunity. 20 If there was, I suspect that my office might 21 be willing to take a look at that, perhaps, and see 22 the viability of that. 23 But the reality is, is that, in order to sue, 24 you have to have money to sue. And, of course, 25 non-profits don't have money. Sort of the 1 definition; right? 2 So, as you're looking at that, it might be 3 helpful to incorporate some sort of attorneys's 4 fees provision. 5 [Off-camera inaudible comment.] 6 REBECCA CASE GRAMMATICO: I'm sorry? 7 [Off-camera inaudible comment.] 8 REBECCA CASE GRAMMATICO: Oh, arbitration. 9 I'm not -- not really, no. 10 [Off-camera inaudible comment.] 11 REBECCA CASE GRAMMATICO: It is, but it 12 doesn't tend to favor the consumers; or the folks 13 who are actually the underdog in this situation. 14 So, today my testimony will focus on four 15 issues, not just foreclosure prevention work. 16 And I apologize. Unfortunately, my area of 17 expertise is strictly foreclosure prevention, so, if 18 you have questions in the welfare or the child-care 19 issues, I'm not your girl, but you can contact 20 Susan Antos [ph.] in our Albany office, or Don in 21 our Long Island office. 22 So, briefly, those issues are: 23 Improving the identification of disability 24 screening for welfare applicants, and sanction 25 policies; 1 The importance of full implementation of 2 final phase of the welfare grant increase; 3 The desperate need to invest in child-care 4 assistance for low-income working New Yorkers; 5 And, of course, the economic impact of 6 foreclosures on New York's families and children. 7 So, first: The welfare grant increase. 8 The work of non-profit agencies serving 9 New Yorkers faces a nearly insurmountable obstacle 10 when a safety net is in tatters. 11 The striking example of this dilemma arises 12 when circumstances compel a family to turn to the 13 public-assistance program for their existence. 14 In the 22 years since 1990, the cost of 15 living in New York has risen by more than 16 70 percent. During that period, the welfare grant 17 in New York has increased by 20 percent. 18 As a result, poor New York families have an 19 ever-increasing difficulty in meeting the most basic 20 needs. 21 In 2009, the State adopted a modest grant 22 increase, to be phased in over three years, as you 23 know. The first increase in the basic allowance in 24 19 years. 25 The first two steps were enacted, but, 1 unfortunately, in 2011, the State failed to 2 implement the final stage. And, the executive 3 budget now proposes to further delay that final 4 installment by phasing it in, in half of a third 5 step this year; and then half, next year. 6 If the proposal is adopted, this very limited 7 increase would only -- will have taken five years, 8 instead of the intended three, which was intended. 9 Even when fully implemented, however, the 10 grant will still bring families to an income level 11 less than half of the federal poverty level. 12 In Monroe County, the maximum grant for a 13 family of three will rise to 48 percent of the 14 poverty level. While this grant, theoretically, 15 enables them to provide for their essential needs, 16 the reality still falls short. 17 The full grant increase, estimated to cost 18 the State an additional 6 million, nevertheless, 19 will provide a very small but meaningful supplement 20 to poor families. 21 At a bare minimum, the increase pledged by 22 legislature and governor in 2009 must be implemented 23 in the 2012 session. 24 Number two: The work-related sanctions. 25 We support two legislative proposals to 1 address the problem of an unexpectedly -- 2 unacceptedly high, excuse me, number of welfare 3 recipients who are punished for alleged 4 non-compliance with work requirements. 5 Before describing the legislation, it's 6 instructed to review the four principles that guide 7 this initiative. 8 Number one: Public assistance recipients are 9 much more likely to have serious disabilities, than 10 is the case for the population in general. And are 11 even more likely to have disabilities than other 12 low-people. 13 In the welfare system, disabilities 14 frequently are not recognized; and, therefore, 15 needed accommodations are not made. 16 Number three: People of serious physical and 17 mental limitations that have not been accommodated 18 are at much greater risk of being punished for those 19 alleged non-compliances. 20 And not surprisingly the families who are 21 sanctioned are more likely to experience hunger and 22 food insecurity, health problems, homelessness, 23 and further need for emergency services, which are 24 costly. 25 If this is a set of facts that has prompted 1 advocates to endorse the two pieces of legislation, 2 then one would improve the process by which local 3 agencies can identify clients with disabilities 4 first. 5 The other would serve to prevent unwarranted 6 sanctions, particularly when imposed on clients with 7 the disabilities. 8 Screening for disability, another piece: Our 9 proposed screening legislation would ensure that 10 local districts offer clients the opportunity to 11 be evaluated for disabilities soon, at the 12 application stage, and at other appropriate times. 13 Require OTDA to develop a high-quality tool 14 for screening for physical and mental disabilities, 15 and require that the districts use this tool to 16 evaluate their clients. 17 Provide, that if the initial screening 18 suggests a possible disability, that the client must 19 be offered the opportunity for a more in-depth 20 evaluation by a qualified professional. 21 And also require, that if the valuation 22 process indicates the presence of a disability, the 23 client must be offered appropriate accommodations, 24 to ensure full program access. 25 Now, the protections against those 1 inappropriate sanctions: The proposed legislation 2 would require that, before imposing a sanction, 3 districts must determine whether the alleged 4 failure to comply was related to a disability, a 5 problem with child care, or transportation 6 difficulties. 7 Mandatory sanctions, but they're 8 inflexible. Punishment periods would be eliminated; 9 and, instead, a sanction can be lifted once the 10 client demonstrates a willingness to come into 11 compliance. 12 And, also, a client who is otherwise 13 satisfactorily participating in assigned work 14 activities must not be sanctioned for a single minor 15 infraction. 16 We believe that these two proposals would go 17 a long way toward ensuring that no New Yorkers's 18 excluded from needed benefits because of their 19 disability. 20 Now, changing topics and focus to child care 21 now: The wages of low-income working families are 22 usually not sufficient to pay for a child-care 23 provider who cares for their children while they 24 work; and, to cover, also, that other necessities of 25 life, including, rent, utilities, and food, and 1 transportation. 2 As a result, child-care subsidies are 3 critical to helping low-income families retain their 4 jobs. 5 Child care is in crisis, as local service 6 districts struggle with the reduced funding; a 7 $70 million reduction in funding since 2009 and 8 2010. This $70 million gap exists, with the 9 $93 million in the State funding provided by the 10 Governor. But without that money, the reduction 11 would be approximately 163 million. 12 Our testimony explains in further detail, 13 in front of you, how this funding problem has 14 developed, and explains how, even with the 15 $93 million, there is still not enough child-care 16 assistance available to help all eligible families. 17 Under state law, families with incomes up 18 to 200 percent of poverty are eligible for financial 19 assistance paying for child care, but there is not 20 enough funding to cover all of the eligible families 21 across the state. 22 And as those funds have declined, counties 23 have taken their own dramatic steps to cope with 24 those decreases. 25 I have outlined in the testimony, several 1 counties across the area, but I'm only going 2 highlight a couple here. 3 In Erie County, with its lowered eligibility 4 guidelines for low-income working parents, from 5 200 percent of poverty level to 125 percent of 6 poverty, effective March of 2010, that's leaving 7 1,100 children, in 700 families, without child care. 8 Erie County was able to partially restore 9 that eligibility to 175 percent of poverty, 10 effective June. 11 The other county I wanted to mention was 12 Albany County. They've stopped taking applications 13 for child-care services from working families for 14 one year, beginning April 23 of 2010. 15 And, again, there's more in the testimony. 16 Finally: Child care is a solid investment in 17 job creation, as we have discussed already. Every 18 dollar invested in child care saves a job for a 19 working parent, and it also create as job for the 20 child-care provider. 21 All parents share in the cost of child care 22 by making co-payments, and that's an investment in 23 the education and safety of our youngest citizens, 24 that is shared by their -- the parents and the 25 government. 1 And, at a minimum, New York should invest an 2 additional 70 million to bring our child-care 3 investment up. 4 Now, my area that I can talk somewhat 5 intelligently on, is foreclosures. 6 The loss of a home, as you know, a 7 foreclosure auction negatively impacts the state, 8 local municipalities, and the families who are 9 specifically suffering from that loss. 10 According to a May 2009 report by the 11 Urban Institute, entitled "The Impacts of 12 Foreclosures on Families and Communities," when a 13 foreclosure occurs, the families living in that 14 foreclosed property are impacted in virtually all 15 aspects of their well-being. 16 It's an older report, but you can imagine 17 that it's still quite valid today. 18 In addition to the harm caused to the family, 19 the impact of a single foreclosed home is profoundly 20 felt the more urban the environment is. 21 So, not only through the tax lost in the 22 values of revenues -- excuse me -- the lost tax 23 revenue, and the value of the property is lost, but, 24 also, the simple cost of it cutting grass for a 25 vacant property; and, ultimately, the demolition 1 costs for a property that's become vacant from -- 2 that also brings an additional costs, as crime and 3 public-health issues. 4 Now, I'm not going to spend a lot of time 5 talking about the trends of foreclosure. I think we 6 all know that's a serious problem. 7 But, briefly, if I could highlight some 8 numbers: 9 According to a study that we have done, and 10 the specifics are in testimony, we have estimated 11 that over 250,000 homes in New York State are either 12 in foreclosure or about to become in foreclosure. 13 We have had some hiccups, shall we say, 14 along the way, with the robo signing. 15 And, the courts have taken a particular 16 aggressive approach to that, to make sure that 17 lenders' attorneys are taking a proactive look at 18 their cases. 19 And in -- good or bad, depending on how you 20 look it, and which side of the coin you're on, that 21 has caused, in effect, a moratorium on folks. 22 So, as a result, people are stuck in this 23 limbo state right now, not actually entering 24 foreclosure. 25 Or, if they are entering foreclosure, they're 1 not entering into the required settlement-conference 2 process, so people are getting served. They're not 3 getting the request for judicial intervention filed, 4 which triggers the settlement-conference process to 5 begin. 6 So, folks are sitting there, without 7 loans, that are currently unaffordable, and the 8 interest continues to accrue, and people are 9 unable to actually communicate with their banks, 10 which further causes delay and costs. 11 I do want to say that New York, thankfully, 12 has taken a proactive approach to the foreclosure 13 crisis. They've been some of the -- New York has 14 been amongst the most aggressive in the country to 15 address the subprime and the foreclosure crisis. 16 New York was only the second highest of 17 11 states to experience the home-price 18 appreciation in 2010. And, we are fourth in the 19 nation in terms of loan modifications achieved 20 through the federal Home Affordable Modification 21 Program. The "HAMP Program." 22 We strongly believe that New York could be 23 poised to exit the foreclosure crisis ahead of most 24 other states. But, if we stay the course right 25 now, with the current lack of funding for the 1 program and activities, we will be in a much 2 worse-off shape than we already are. 3 The good news, I suppose, is that we believe 4 that we are approximately halfway through the 5 crisis; whereas, the rest of the country is about a 6 third of the way. 7 But, again, if we don't have funding for the 8 service providers on the ground -- the housing 9 counselors and legal-services providers and pro bono 10 attorneys -- to assist folks in that foreclosure 11 process, it's going to become much worse, and it's 12 going to take us a much longer time to exit the 13 crisis. 14 Now, some numbers on the foreclosure program 15 itself. 16 It started in 2008, and over 80,000 17 homeowners have been assisted, and at least 18 14,000 homes have been saved from foreclosure. 19 Every dollar invested in the 20 foreclosure-prevention program has resulted in at 21 least a $68 savings to the State. This is due to 22 the avoidance of the decreased property values and 23 the subsequent decreased tax revenue. 24 It's estimated that, today, the program has 25 saved over $3.4 billion across New York State. 1 If nothing is done, however, to help that 2 more than 250,000 homes entering foreclosure, the 3 cost would total, approximately, over 61 billion in 4 decreased property values and the reduction of the 5 tax base. 6 Now, the Governor has announced in his State 7 of State Address, and has included some money in his 8 executive budget, for the creation of the 9 foreclosure relief unit within the Department of 10 Financial Services. 11 To date, few details have been revealed on 12 that program. 13 We continue to work with them, to try to help 14 funnel, and have a conversation about how best to 15 implement that program. 16 But, so far, we have found that they are 17 providing a state-run mobile command center, staffed 18 with foreclosure counselors who are coming to 19 Long Island, I believe this week, or next. And they 20 provide information about loan modifications that 21 are available under federal law, and they take 22 complaints from homeowners, so that the unit can 23 investigate further. 24 There's already a system in place right now 25 to assist those homeowners. 1 It's a great idea, as long as it's used in 2 conjunction with the program that's proven to work. 3 That's all I have. 4 Thank you. 5 SENATOR SAVINO:: Thank you. 6 The foreclosure prevention program that we 7 currently have in New York State, as you pointed 8 out, is probably the most comprehensive in the 9 nation. 10 REBECCA CASE GRAMMATICO: Yes. 11 SENATOR SAVINO: Senator Klein, who is -- was 12 the deputy majority leader at the time, actually 13 created it. 14 We had a press conference about a week ago, 15 with providers from all around the state, to focus 16 on just how important this is. 17 REBECCA CASE GRAMMATICO: Yes, and we thank 18 you. 19 SENATOR SAVINO: It would be a tragedy if 20 New York, which, you know, stepped out way in front 21 of the rest of the country, falls behind. 22 It is $25 million. And I think we're, you 23 know, making the case to Governor's Office, that 24 even if the program is going to be administered 25 through the Ben Lawsky's office, that's great, but 1 you got to put the money there -- 2 REBECCA CASE GRAMMATICO: That's right. 3 SENATOR SAVINO: -- because we have far too 4 many people at risk. 5 I'm happy to see that you guys are supportive 6 of the idea of investing in child care. We need to 7 do it. It's something important. 8 And, you know, I actually have met with your 9 downstate counterparts, to talk about the sanction 10 issue. 11 You didn't -- interestingly, you didn't 12 mention the issue of fair hearings. 13 I don't know about the rest of the state or 14 the other counties. In New York City, they lose 15 their fair hearings -- the city loses, just about 16 100 percent of the time; which means, they 17 sanction somebody for either failure to comply with 18 workfare, or failure to show up for a face-to-face, 19 or whatever the case happens to be, and they lose, 20 every time. 21 I'm not -- is that consistent statistics 22 with counties outside of the city in 23 upstate New York? 24 REBECCA CASE GRAMMATICO: I can't say. 25 That's outside of my knowledge. 1 SENATOR SAVINO: Just curious. 2 REBECCA CASE GRAMMATICO: I'm sorry. 3 But I'm sure that you can get the information 4 from folks in Albany as well. 5 SENATOR SAVINO: Okay. Thank you. 6 SENATOR GALLIVAN: We actually have some of 7 that information. 8 SENATOR SAVINO: Uh-huh. 9 SENATOR GALLIVAN: And we have been working 10 with New York City to try to correct that. A lot of 11 it -- some of it was sloppy paperwork. 12 SENATOR SAVINO: Yeah. 13 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Better handling 14 internally. 15 But, no, they were not consistent with the 16 rest of the state. 17 New York City was very high. The rest of the 18 state, pretty much consistently, as compared from 19 county to county. 20 SENATOR SAVINO:: Okay. 21 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Significantly lower. 22 REBECCA CASE GRAMMATICO: If you have other 23 questions, I'm sure that those folks can offer 24 some sort of assistance to you. 25 SENATOR SAVINO: Thanks. 1 REBECCA CASE GRAMMATICO: Thank you. 2 SENATOR SAVINO: Next is, Jean Carroll, the 3 president and CEO of the YWCA. 4 JEAN CARROLL: Yes, I'm Jean Carroll. I'm 5 president and CEO of the YWCA of Rochester, in 6 Monroe County. 7 And I'm here today, along with 8 Lydia Rodriguez, who is one of the 1,000-plus women 9 and girls that we serve annually. 10 And, I thought that, while I have some 11 messages to share with you, I thought that it would 12 be good for you to hear first-hand from Lydia about 13 one of the services that is in danger of not being 14 continued. 15 LYDIA RODRIGUEZ: Okay, hi. 16 AS she said, I'm Lydia Rodriguez. 17 And my story is, I come from a 18 domestic-violence background. Severe domestic 19 violence. 20 My son and I fled from Syracuse. We came 21 over here to Rochester where we knew no one. 22 Nothing. Nobody. 23 We heard about ABW, and they took women. 24 I just needed to be away from Syracuse, as I 25 lived there for 23 years. And, whatever shelter I 1 went through, I have lived, in various parts of 2 Syracuse. I didn't want to be found. 3 I was almost killed, twice. 4 So, we made it over here, far enough from 5 Syracuse, where, I could feel safe walking the 6 streets, but close enough to where my older children 7 could come and see me if they had to. 8 Well, I ended up coming to the YWCA, by the 9 grace of God. 10 I've got into support services, where, we 11 were lost. 12 We were lost. 13 And we were being turned away from everywhere 14 that we went. And it was to the point where I felt 15 that I would have to go back. 16 And if I went back, that would be my life. 17 I had, my son was 10. Then, a 10-year-old. 18 He's 13 now. 19 And through the YWCA, they helped us. They 20 roomed us. And they helped us, through support 21 services, find an affordable and safe apartment in 22 the Irondequoit area. 23 We were close to hospitals. 24 He got to a wonderful school, which is 25 East Irondequoit Middle School. Excellent school 1 system. 2 We were able to, through the YWCA, to get 3 counseling, because this is 14 years of extreme 4 domestic violence. And counseling, not only for 5 myself, but for my son. 6 Throughout being here, we were found. 7 We were found, somehow. And, the YWCA, they 8 helped me to get into a higher apartment, so that -- 9 because I was afraid. I was, like: He's going 10 climb through our windows. 11 We lived in a first floor. 12 They helped me to feel safe. You know, they 13 gave us the safety. They moved us to a upper 14 apartment, which I don't believe they usually do. 15 They helped us to make our Christmas. 16 With school, they helped us with school 17 supplies for my children. 18 Clothes, because we came with nothing. We 19 left everything, in the middle of the night. 20 And, they helped us in so many aspects. 21 Right now, my son is doing great in school. 22 Like I said, we're getting our mental health. 23 We're close to the hospitals, getting the help we 24 need. 25 For Thanksgiving, they helped us with food. 1 That first Christmas; it was August when we 2 came, so, of course, we didn't have nothing. They 3 made Christmas possible for me and my child. 4 My daughter ended up coming. She was also a 5 victim of domestic violence. They also helped house 6 her, and helped her with their service. 7 They helped me. 8 I didn't know anything about the YWCA. 9 I didn't know anything. I thought it was, 10 you know, a place where people just rent apartments, 11 or whatever. But, it was much more than that. 12 They helped us to get furniture. They helped 13 me get into public assistance. Helped me get to the 14 doctors. 15 At times, when I couldn't get to the grocery 16 store, every month, our social worker would come, 17 and she would take us grocery shopping, which was an 18 extreme help. 19 I suffer from severe asthma. 20 Her office is downstairs, and, I was having 21 asthma attack. I couldn't hardly move. 22 My support-service manager, she came in and 23 took me to the hospital. Stayed with me, you know, 24 while I got admitted, and everything. 25 And, it's just a lot of help. 1 I have met young girls there that were 2 homeless also, because of the economy, et cetera. 3 And, you know, it gives you a heads up. 4 It makes you feel comfortable. 5 And, I felt unworthy; I felt like nothing. 6 And, now, I can lift my head up. 7 I can walk the streets. I have a safe place 8 to live. My son is doing excellent. I'm doing 9 fine. 10 They -- where we couldn't afford, they take 11 us places, like Darien Lake. I could never afford 12 to take any son there. We had no transportation, or 13 anything. 14 They do that for us. 15 They took us to Niagara Falls. 16 They give us services, where we get together 17 and we talk about parenting, and self-help issues. 18 So, you know, we need that. And it's 19 important, because there's a lot of women dying from 20 domestic violence that don't know that they have 21 places to go. That don't realize that there are 22 people that can help. So we stay in this situation. 23 And, I believe that if I knew -- I was in the 24 situation for 14 years. If I knew that there was, 25 you know, these type of programs, that could help 1 me to be safe, they can get me away from this 2 violence, and -- and not only, just find me an 3 apartment and leave me there, and, Okay, you're on 4 your own, but, give me these support services that I 5 need to find help. 6 So, okay, you need mental help, you need to 7 talk, we're here. 8 Go to this program. Come to that program. 9 You know, it's very helpful. Because, like I 10 said, we're dying. And a lot of women, you know, I 11 could have died. 12 I was a statistics. I have been in the 13 hospital, twice. I had to have surgery to have 14 discs removed that were crushed from being choked. 15 I had bones -- when I came to the YWCA, bones in my 16 face broke, and I still can't barely see from one 17 side of my face. 18 But, I thank God that I found the YWCA, that 19 I ended up here, because they saved my life. 20 So... 21 SENATOR SAVINO:: Thank you, Lydia, for 22 sharing. 23 JEAN CARROLL: Thank you, Lydia. 24 You know, there is nothing more compelling 25 than a firsthand account of how, what you have done, 1 and what we try to do as a community, makes a 2 difference in an individual's life. 3 At the YWCA, we serve a 1,000 women and 4 children every year. 5 We have a continuum of housing services. 6 We start out with emergency housing. And 7 then we have, in addition to that, transitional 8 housing, and supportive living. And, then, 9 long-term permanent housing. 10 And, women can come in at any point along 11 that continuum. 12 And we do, often, get women who have been 13 victims of domestic violence at our emergency 14 housing. About 40 percent of the women who come 15 through our housing program have been victims of 16 domestic violence. 17 A critical component along any person's 18 journey, when they're found to be homeless, whether 19 it's because of domestic violence, or, you know, 20 lack of financial resources, or mental or physical 21 health, a critical component is the support 22 services. 23 And, the YWCA has relied on many sources to 24 provide support services to the women that we serve. 25 In the past, we have had funding from 1 New York State. It was originally called 2 "supportive housing for families and young 3 adults." And, we have had that funding for about 4 seven years, and, we no longer have that funding. 5 So, we have had to cut back on our staff, and 6 not been able to provide the level of support 7 services that are needed. 8 Over the past three years, in fact, you 9 know, while funding has been cut, we've seen an 10 expansion in the need for emergency housing and 11 longer-term housing. 12 We did expand our services to families, 13 because it is, in fact, women with children who are 14 one of the greatest areas of increase in 15 homelessness. 16 One of the things that is very true about 17 homelessness, is that it doesn't happen overnight, 18 and it doesn't get solved by short-term 19 emergency-shelter stays. 20 That is why the permanent affordable 21 apartments, linked to on-site services, is really 22 the solution. It's a proven cost-effective and 23 humane way to provide stable homes to 24 individuals and families who have difficulty 25 finding and maintaining housing. 1 This year's underfunding endangers a lot of 2 the stability of very fragile residents at the 3 YWCA, and around the state. 4 The supportive housing program is the area 5 where we would have been funded, where we are not 6 currently funded. It was a consolidation of many 7 other programs under that umbrella last year, and, 8 went from substantially a higher rate of funding to 9 a much lower one. 10 One of the stats on this, is that, over 11 12,800 disabled tenants in 163 residences really 12 have inadequate services because of the underfunding 13 in the supportive housing program. 14 Underfunding also puts federal funding at 15 risk. 16 New York State leverages significant 17 federal resources, up to four federal dollars for 18 every State dollar. 19 So, from a cost standpoint, or from a 20 leveraging standpoint, having those services in 21 place is very important. 22 The other area that I wanted to talk about, 23 since I know that you also have oversight related to 24 the Office of Children and Family Services, is our 25 program where we serve teen moms. 1 We work with about 250 teen moms annually; 2 teenagers who are pregnant and parenting, and at 3 risk of dropping out of school. 4 Typically, nationwide, about 75 percent of 5 teen moms drop out of school. 6 At the YWCA, we have really focused our 7 programming and our services. We are currently in 8 seven of the city high schools, on site, and we 9 provide the teen moms that are at those schools with 10 the highest-quality, evidence-based teen outreach 11 program approach to service. 12 In fact, this past school year, 76 percent of 13 the senior girls in our "young-parent support 14 services" program, graduated. 15 And, 86 percent of girls in the program, 16 18 months or more, delayed a repeat pregnancy. 17 Excellent results such as these should be 18 supported; yet, because of changes in funding and 19 administration in New York State, we're losing our 20 ability to continue providing these services. 21 A program-funding stream called, "APS," or, 22 "adolescent pregnancy and parenting services," 23 administered through the Office of Children and 24 Family Services, provided support to these 25 vulnerable young women and their children. 1 This was transitioned out of the 2 Department of Office of Children and Family Services 3 and into the New York State Department of Health. 4 The Department of Health now targets 5 teens for primary prevention services, which is 6 focused on preventing an initial pregnancy. 7 And while I certainly agree that it would be 8 better for these young women, for themselves, and 9 for their children, to delay sex and childbearing, 10 cutting services and support to teens who are 11 moms and have young babies, teens who are moving 12 towards graduation, and post-secondary education, 13 is not the result that any of us want. 14 I'm hopeful that you may be able to help to 15 direct me to alternative funding that already exists 16 within New York State budget, that can continue the 17 kind of success that we have had. 18 This is not a one-year success rate. 19 This, we have been doing this for about 20 20 years, so -- and with the teen outreach program 21 fully functional for about five years. 22 So, we have really shown the results. It 23 does make a big difference. 24 And I would very much like any advice that 25 you can give me on this. 1 As an administrator, I struggle every day 2 with how to prioritize our services, between housing 3 for women and children, and services to teen moms. 4 I knowing that your job as senators is 5 probably even more daunting than mine, in terms of 6 making decisions related to this the State budget. 7 I ask that you consider Lydia, and my 8 testimony, and the impacts that the funding levels 9 within New York State have on a very, very 10 vulnerable population in our community. 11 Thank you. 12 SENATOR SAVINO:: Thank you. 13 Lydia, we'd like to thank you for sharing 14 your story. You're reminding us of what these 15 dollars actually do, and the difference they make 16 in people's lives. 17 On the teen-pregnancy issue, are you not at 18 all frustrated by the fact that television has now 19 glorified this? 20 We have this weekly reality show now called 21 "Teen Mom." And they go out and recruit some 22 15-year-old girls to show their -- and they become a 23 reality -- like Jersey Shore. 24 It's really outrageous, Senator Gallivan. 25 And now they're on the front cover of 1 magazines. You can't come out of the supermarket 2 without seeing these girls and their babies, and, 3 you know, they glorify them, and turned them into 4 stars. 5 Are you -- how do you, as a service provider, 6 then, talk to a teenaged girl about this situation 7 that she finds herself in? 8 JEAN CARROLL: Most of the young women that 9 we're working with, they don't intend to become 10 pregnant. They really are not setting out with that 11 as a goal in their life. 12 Often, the biggest issue with the teen moms 13 that we're dealing with is, really, the lack of 14 guidance in their lives. And, they're not seeing 15 a future for themselves. 16 Rochester -- the city of Rochester, which is 17 where we provide our services, has the highest rate 18 of teen pregnancy outside of New York City. It is 19 very, very high -- tenth -- in child poverty in the 20 country. 21 So, there are many forces that are at work 22 that probably aren't very well reflected on the show 23 that you see on cable, in terms of the challenges 24 that these young women are up against. 25 Often, they have not had the opportunity to 1 even get out of their own neighborhood, to see what 2 the potential is for them, long term. 3 So, a lot of it has to do with, working with 4 these young women, to build themselves up. To help 5 them to develop a sense of their own future. 6 And surprisingly enough, I have heard many of 7 the young women say, that, now that they have a 8 child, they have a better sense of responsibility, 9 and look more to the future than they did before 10 they became pregnant. 11 SENATOR SAVINO: I hope so. 12 JEAN CARROLL: They -- yeah, well, you know, 13 you can't take anything for granted. 14 SENATOR SAVINO: No. 15 JEAN CARROLL: So, helping these young women 16 on their way, you know, we can't change the fact 17 that they have a child. 18 We can certainly do everything that we can, 19 in terms of primary prevention, which I think we 20 should. But once they have a child, the critical, 21 critical issue, is making sure they get educated, 22 not only get out of high school, but also continue 23 for a post-secondary education, so that they can 24 have a future beyond poverty, for themselves and 25 that child. 1 So, that's what we're all about, is making 2 that future happen. 3 SENATOR SAVINO:: What is the cost to this 4 program for your agency? 5 JEAN CARROLL: Well, I would say -- let me 6 think. 7 Usually, for each case manager, I would say 8 it's about $50,000 for each school that we're in. 9 And we're in seven different schools. 10 So, 350,000, about, for the program. 11 SENATOR GALLIVAN: One question. 12 And, Lydia, my thanks, also, for sharing your 13 story with us. 14 Regarding domestic-violence victims and 15 emergency housing, and you may not know this off the 16 top of your head: Are you able to tell us what the 17 average length, or the duration of, the services 18 that you're providing for domestic violence 19 victims, as it relates to housing? 20 5 days? 100 days? 3 years? 21 JEAN CARROLL: Oh, no. 22 We're pretty limited in terms of the services 23 that we provide. 24 We, generally, I would say the average stay, 25 if it's an individual person, a single woman, it's 1 probably two weeks. 2 If it's a family, it tends to be 30 to 3 45 days. 4 SENATOR GALLIVAN: And, then, are you in all 5 of those cases, or, can you put a percentage on the 6 assistance? 7 Are you providing assistance as they're 8 transitioning -- transitioning, excuse me, out of 9 the emergency housing? 10 JEAN CARROLL: We were. 11 We are not currently able to do that 12 because -- 13 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Because of funding. 14 JEAN CARROLL: -- because of funding. 15 That was another New York State Emergency 16 Solutions Grant that was cut. 17 We did, in the past, receive funding for 18 staff that we had on site, that the women would get 19 to know while they're there. And then they would 20 follow them after they left, for six months to a 21 year. 22 They would have, you know, at minimum, of 23 every two weeks, meet with the women, to ensure 24 that, once they leave our facility and move into an 25 apartment, that they maintain housing stability, and 1 that they get other services in the community. 2 So, it was a very de-institutional approach 3 to serving the women, but still giving them 4 supports. 5 And, we've had to discontinue that, in 6 November, when we didn't get additional funding for 7 that purpose. 8 SENATOR GALLIVAN: All right, thank you. 9 JEAN CARROLL: Uh-huh. 10 SENATOR SAVINO:: Thank you. 11 We're going to take a two-minute break. I'll 12 be right back. 13 But next up -- 14 SENATOR GALLIVAN: And, Clyde Comstock will 15 be next up. 16 [Pause in the proceeding.] 17 [The proceeding continued, as follows:] 18 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Okay, Clyde. 19 SENATOR SAVINO:: You don't have to read the 20 whole thing. 21 CLYDE COMSTOCK: Does this look a little 22 long? 23 SENATOR SAVINO: Yes. 24 CLYDE COMSTOCK: My name is Clyde Comstock. 25 I'm the chief operating officer for the 1 Hillside Family of agencies. And, I'm also the 2 president of the New York State Coalition for 3 Childrens's Mental Health Services. 4 And, particularly, I would like to welcome 5 you to Rochester. 6 Today is Hillside's 175th anniversary, on 7 this very day. So -- 8 SENATOR SAVINO: Wow. 9 CLYDE COMSTOCK: -- thanks for coming to our 10 birthday. 11 SENATOR SAVINO: You don't look a day over 12 140. 13 [Laughter.] 14 CLYDE COMSTOCK: We have good water in 15 Rochester. 16 Hillside serves children and families in 17 about 45 different locations; 120 different 18 programs; 2,300 employees; 24 counties. Our 19 budget is about $135 million. 20 And, we are licensed by nearly everybody that 21 funds services for children and families: 22 The Office of Children and Family Services, OPWDD, 23 OMH, OASAS, and SED. 24 There is a lot of advantages to Hillside, 25 in being able to bring to our various communities 1 the wide range of services and regulatory bodies 2 that we can offer services through. 3 There are also some pretty serious 4 disadvantages. 5 We do have about 50 audits per year; so, 6 virtually, every week we have somebody from a 7 different piece of the State coming in to audit a 8 different part of our programs. 9 We also have our reporting, on a computerized 10 level, happens through 15 different IT systems to 11 the State, each of which has tried to solve their 12 own particular problem in their own area, so that 13 they make life easier for the people on the ground 14 by having a computerized IT system. But, the State 15 systems don't talk to each other, nor do they all 16 upload information from our own system, so, we end 17 up reporting through these 15 different systems. 18 So, it's one of our hopes, as the 19 SAGE Commission dives into organizational 20 complexity, is that they take a look at life on the 21 ground for agencies that serve children and families 22 whose needs really span all of the various funding 23 streams. 24 One of the issues that concerns us 25 greatly at the moment is Medicaid. 1 That, as Medicaid, within three to 2 five years moves to a managed system, to try and 3 deal with the escalating costs of Medicaid that 4 we've all read about, the challenges to this new 5 system, to understand and meet the needs of children 6 and families, particularly children and youth who 7 have chronic mental-health needs that are beyond 8 what the insurance companies have generally been 9 used to, our system, the new system, is going to 10 have to be able to really understand these chronic 11 long-term needs of children and families, and also 12 understand the difference between serving adults 13 and serving children; and that primary difference 14 is, that parents have a key role in the service 15 system. 16 And as these new products are getting 17 designed around managed care, for the most part, 18 they put the patient first. But, with children, you 19 really need to put parents right along with their 20 children. 21 New York, as we shift, I think Hillside is 22 probably about a third Medicaid-funded; so, a little 23 over $50 million worth of services are in Medicaid. 24 All of the payers and regulations and 25 requirements for that amount of money and that 1 amount of services, within three to five years, is 2 going to change. 3 So, we're going to be changing into: 4 Increasing the Medicaid managed-care basic 5 plans to the insurance companies; 6 Regional behavioral health organizations. 7 And, for Hillside, we deal with two regions: one 8 in Syracuse, and one in the western part of the 9 state; 10 Health homes for adults over 18; 11 Regional -- or, health homes for children 12 that are currently being designed; 13 The new APG system for outpatient 14 mental-health services, that goes from about 3 or 15 4 rates for children's outpatient, to well over 16 25 different rates, for billing for those 17 services; 18 The medical homes; 19 The developmental-care individual support- 20 and care-coordination organizations, or, "discos," 21 as we know them through the OPWDD. 22 So our worry, as all of this is changing -- 23 and each of those things that I mentioned are 24 rolling out right now. So, they're either in design 25 phase or they're actually happening. 1 And our worry is: Who's watching out for 2 children and families' needs, as the systems that 3 New York State has spent a long time building, 4 carefully constructing, are going to all change into 5 this new structure? 6 It's going to require the legislature to pay 7 particular attention to how this plays out. 8 I have a somewhat detailed example of what 9 it's like when managed care moves in, and what it's 10 like for an organization, and what it's like for a 11 child and family. 12 In October -- starting in October, anytime we 13 have non-typical psychotropic medications being 14 prescribed, it has to get approved through a 15 managed-care company. 16 Conceptually, that makes some sense: have 17 someone else taking a look at what the 18 prescription -- what the prescribers are doing. 19 The way it has played out, I'll just go 20 really fast through this one: December 19th, we had 21 a child who had a prescription for Abilify written. 22 He had been on it for four years. 23 It was denied by MVP Option because it needed 24 prior authorization. 25 That was completed, and it was then denied, 1 because the diagnosis did not justify use. 2 Made calls to MVP Option to see what else we 3 needed to do. They referred us to Medco. 4 We made calls to Medco. Got no calls back 5 from them. 6 December 21st, the child now had no 7 medication. 8 We then re-called MVP. They then wanted a 9 list of all past medication, back to before Abilify 10 started. And, they couldn't do an emergency fill. 11 We then started to try and investigate who 12 actually started Abilify, because the child had been 13 in multiple placements and hospitals before they 14 came into our service. 15 School then closed, while we're still trying 16 to do the research. We were unable to reach anybody 17 during that time. 18 We finally found who first prescribed the 19 Abilify; but then they said they had to go back 20 four years -- two to four years, to find out what 21 the story was, and it would take them a while to 22 copy the records. 23 January 11th, our psychiatrist finally 24 decided that we couldn't wait any longer; we needed 25 to switch medication. 1 So, the medication that the child should have 2 been put on, they could not be. 3 And the amount of time that our staff had to 4 spend, virtually, doing nothing except trying to 5 chase down how could we get the -- get anybody to 6 actually hear the whole story; this, is our primary 7 worry. 8 Managed care done well could be very 9 flexible. Could allow us to do different things for 10 kids and families that could be helpful. 11 Done poorly, it will mean that we end up 12 adding a whole layer of cost inside all of our 13 organizations, to do this chasing, and, someone else 14 who's actually on the other end of it will be 15 getting paid to also do the following-up on each of 16 these. 17 So, it's going add a lot of cost, and needs 18 to be watched very carefully. 19 One of things I did want to bring up today, 20 is that we recently lost funding, along with a 21 number of other organizations across the state, in 22 our Reinvesting in Youth Program. 23 It was a statewide RFP that went out last 24 year, to provide services for youth, to prevent them 25 from going into the juvenile justice system. It was 1 supposed to be a -- I can't remember if it was a 2 3- or a 4-year contract. 3 We were terminated before the end of the 4 first year, as was every other program in the state. 5 Hillside was a lead agency, with seven or 6 eight other agencies across Monroe County, and was 7 having a pretty good degree of success at keeping 8 kids in their communities, and not having them go 9 into the juvenile justice system. 10 So, if there's any way to reinstate that 11 program, that would be very helpful. 12 At the same time that we have all of these 13 challenges, there are a couple of budget items 14 that we want to make sure we support. 15 One is, the reauthorization of the child 16 welfare financing; 17 Second, is maintaining the community optional 18 preventive services funding; 19 And, third, is the new area of supporting the 20 effort to incentivize the combination of private 21 investment and public investment in the 22 public-private partnership program. 23 While all of these challenges are 24 happening, the agencies on the ground are also 25 looking at: What can we do that will -- that could 1 innovate and change the life of our children and 2 families? 3 Hillside has been involved in two key areas 4 with this. 5 The first one is: Family finding. 6 We have, in our OCFS-licensed, mental-health 7 licensed, and an OPWDD-licensed services, kids who 8 have been in the system for many, many years. 9 I just reviewed a child yesterday, who had 10 32 placements over the course of her life; and she 11 was 15 at the time, yesterday. 12 We have a new methodology that we imported 13 from California, that helps us find family 14 members. We use the Internet, and a number of 15 other search methods, to find family members for 16 kids who are entering the system: the OCFS, OPWDD, 17 or mental-health system. 18 Find their families, bring them to the table, 19 help them plan for the child. Be a resource, either 20 to support a parent, so the parent can help take a 21 high-needs child home, or, to actually be able to 22 have that child be discharged into their own home. 23 We have, in our initial pilot projects, 24 where we do groups of 25 kids, we, and the counties, 25 together, started off knowing about 100 family 1 members for those 25 kids. That's all we knew 2 about. 3 By the time we finished the project, we were 4 up to 1,000 family members, that we knew about, 5 and that we could then reach out and bring them to 6 the table. 7 If we can do that successfully and early, we 8 can dramatically shorten the length of stay for 9 kids, and increase our success with kids and 10 families, who really should -- or, kids who should 11 not be growing up in the public system. 12 The other creative services, that Hillside 13 work-scholarship connection, that works with 14 youth, generally, nine through twelfth grade, who 15 are at risk of not graduating from high school. 16 Hillside currently has about 3,500 kids 17 enrolled in this program, in Buffalo, Rochester, and 18 Syracuse. 19 And we significantly improve the high school 20 graduation rate and the college success rate for 21 kids who enter the Hillside work-scholarship 22 program. That is partially funded through 23 education, and through the COPS -- the various 24 COPS funding streams. 25 So, we would like to see that sort of 1 innovative program that's focused on high school 2 graduation increase. 3 Hopefully, I got that through in a hurry. 4 SENATOR SAVINO: We know we'll see you on 5 Monday. You will be -- either yourself or your 6 agency will be testifying -- 7 CLYDE COMSTOCK: Yes. 8 SENATOR SAVINO: -- at the Human Service 9 Budget Hearing. 10 CLYDE COMSTOCK: Yep. 11 SENATOR SAVINO: I would, though, at some 12 point, like to meet with you, to talk to you more 13 about this "family finding" program, and see -- 14 downstate, the Children's Aid Society has been 15 working on this chronic problem of young people who 16 are aging out of the system into independence, but 17 with no connections to the world. 18 It's been a chronic problem in the 19 child-welfare system everywhere, where young -- you 20 know what happens. They get to a certain age and 21 you can't place them anymore, and they wind up 22 living in the system until they're old enough to get 23 out. 24 It's a terrible way to spend your childhood, 25 and it's a terrible way to be introduced to the 1 world. 2 But, I think this is an interesting model, 3 and I would like to spend some more time with you, 4 on that. 5 CLYDE COMSTOCK: Great. 6 And we have a training institute that we've 7 developed a curriculum for. So, we'll train other 8 organizations, private agencies, or counties. 9 And, the City of New York, actually, we're 10 talking to at the moment. 11 So, we would be happy to train anybody who 12 would like to be able to do this as well. 13 SENATOR SAVINO:: Thank you. 14 CLYDE COMSTOCK: Great. 15 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you. 16 See you Monday. 17 SENATOR SAVINO: Next is, Tim Weider, for the 18 Child Care Counsel [sic]. 19 Come on down. 20 TIM WEIDER: I regret that I do not have 21 something to give you today, because -- 22 SENATOR SAVINO: That's -- okay. 23 TIM WEIDER: -- I didn't anticipate I would 24 be able to be here because of my teaching schedule. 25 You're also going to will be victims of my 1 policy, of never giving my students notes before 2 the lecture, because I don't want them to 3 distracted. 4 Thanks for the opportunity to be with you. 5 About a 20-minute drive from this room, there 6 is a 12-foot razor-wired, double-gated fence. 7 And behind that fence, children, in 8 red-and-khaki uniforms, march single-file. 9 Now, I taught in an adult prison for several 10 years, many years. It's no different. 11 That facility is certified by the 12 American Correctional Association. It is a 13 certified prison. 14 The children in that prison, 80 to 90 percent 15 of those children have multiple diagnostic labels: 16 developmental, psychiatric, behavioral, and 17 learning. 18 And two-thirds are receiving psychotropic 19 medication. 20 95 percent of them, are children of color, 21 who come from somewhat chaotic urban 22 neighborhoods. 23 So, from one perspective we might say, that 24 we are incarcerating disabled children. 25 The juvenile justice system has, for decades, 1 operated on a correctional model that came into play 2 after the '90s, and it has not worked. 3 And, fortunately, we have had a commissioner 4 that acknowledged that: That we must change, and we 5 must better understand the behavior of these young 6 people. 7 And the research indicated that their 8 behavior, for the most part, comes out of multiple 9 experiences of trauma in their lives. 10 And, so, OCFS began a process about 11 four years ago, to change their system, from a 12 correctional, to a therapeutic model. 13 It was hopeful. It was promising. 14 And it's over. 15 And, so, I'm here today, simply to speak for, 16 probably, the most disenfranchised and fragile of 17 our population who have no one to speak for them. 18 Their parents are exhausted. 19 First of all, I want to say that, in 20 discussing the systems, I'm not discussing the 21 staff. The staff of OCFS are dedicated, caring, and 22 hard-working. 23 But the policies and the system must change. 24 There's been the gradual understanding now, 25 and I'm not sure whether it came from the budget 1 interests, or others, that were shifting juvenile 2 justice away from facilities into the community. 3 Now, we have been through reinvestment 4 before. The old OMRDD did it. And back in those 5 days, I helped close Craig Developmental Center, 6 and create that OMRDD, now, that system. 7 Not bad. 8 Residential services, they're dealing now 9 with some quality-of-care issues, but, not too bad. 10 And then we moved on to reinvest in mental 11 health. 12 Not so good; as more and more people with 13 mental-health issues are in the homeless shelters, 14 and the prisons. 15 And now we're talking about reinvestment of 16 our juvenile justice system. 17 And as the previous speaker alluded, there 18 was a program here in Rochester called 19 "Reinvestment in Youth," that, before it got through 20 one year -- it was highly collaborative, 21 community neighborhood-based, and successful. 22 Before it got through one year, it was 23 defunded. 24 There's a sense right now that juvenile 25 justice is in chaos. There's no sense of a common, 1 rational plan. 2 There's a sense that things are happening 3 simply on the basis of the budget. 4 The tragedy would be, balancing this budget 5 on the backs of these children. 6 We have to assure that every dollar saved, by 7 closing those facilities and laying off those staff, 8 is, in fact, reinvested at the community level. 9 These youngsters represent, not only high 10 human costs, but, indeed, high social costs, because 11 the tragedy will be, they will either end up in a 12 cell, or a coffin. 13 Some of the issues we need to deal with is, 14 first of all, collaborative planning. 15 Albany has been making decisions and 16 micromanaging, programmatically, for the local 17 level, and it is not working. 18 We need the folks in Albany to provide to 19 come out into the community, and sit with the 20 community resources and plan together. And what 21 works in New York City does not work in Rochester, 22 New York. 23 Number one. 24 Number two: Ten years ago, at one 25 elementary school in Rochester, 41 percent of all 1 the students in that school were diagnosed with 2 lead poisoning, and had certifiable permanent brain 3 damage, that meant decreased cognitive functioning 4 and decreased impulse control. 5 The community responded by running to those 6 houses and cleaning up the lead, but they never 7 followed those children. And ten years later, we 8 don't know who those children were, but we do know 9 that we have increased numbers of children in 10 special education and juvenile justice. 11 It is critical that we begin to follow those 12 young people who have been placed at risk in urban 13 neighborhoods. 14 The incoming president of the 15 American Academy of Pediatrics is a Rochester 16 pediatrician, and this is one of his agenda items. 17 And, therefore, we need to look at: What can 18 we do with State policy to support that process? 19 We -- one of the biases that I -- I think 20 it's some of the bias -- is that young people need 21 be returned to their families. 22 As a sociologist, I kind of see that as kind 23 of a nice middle-class concept. But the reality is, 24 the families of these youngsters are emotionally 25 drained and exhausted. Okay? 1 And, therefore, even though we must reach 2 out, because, if you find a traumatized child, you 3 find a traumatized parent. We clearly need to reach 4 out to those parents and families, but we need a 5 community-based residential resource for many of 6 these youngsters, who are released from a facility 7 and disappear within the first six months. 8 There is at least four kids from this 9 community, today, we don't know where they are. 10 There is an empty group home in Brighton, 11 kind of an upscale community, that's has sat empty 12 for the last, at least, five or six years. Okay? 13 But we need that kind of resource as an 14 intermediary between the fence and the family. 15 At the same time we're talking about 16 reinvesting in the community, we are defunding the 17 community's resources. 18 We can't defund the Youth Bureau at the same 19 time we're saying, we need to provide these services 20 at the community level. 21 That's where this collaborative planning; 22 that's where folks need to come out of Albany, come 23 into the community, understand the resources in that 24 community, and begin to build a rational, healing 25 system for these young people. 1 There is a group that was functioning under 2 the aegis of the Rochester City School District and 3 the local Department of Human Services, that did 4 some research on young people in these systems. 5 And one of the recommendations was, providing 6 resources that follow the child. 7 So rather than fund programs, fund the 8 child, and have those resources that follow that 9 child respond to the specific needs of that 10 particular child. 11 It's a funding mechanism that's more 12 person-centered. Okay? 13 So, number one: Collaborative planning, 14 together with the community, in terms of: What is 15 the future of juvenile justice? And, how can we 16 create that future together, not mandated from 17 above? 18 Number two: We must understand the behavior 19 of these young people in a non-criminal context. 20 And that means, their trauma history, and 21 the potential for lead poisoning. 22 Number three: We need to look at residential 23 settings in the community, as an intermediate 24 step, perhaps, between facility and family. 25 Number four: We need to assure that 1 reinvestment is genuine reinvestment, and not a 2 mechanism to solve our budgetary problems. 3 And, finally: A potential for serving young 4 people in the community, is to have a mechanism 5 whereby the funding follows the youth, and is 6 based, ultimately, on: What are the needs of the 7 particular -- of an individual youth, as well as, 8 what are their strengths and competencies? 9 It's through that kind of mechanism that we 10 can fund programs like, a teen empowerment, the 11 Youth Bureaus, and others, that can be those 12 resources in the community. 13 Thank you. 14 SENATOR SAVINO:: Thank you. 15 As you point out, juvenile justice reform is 16 going to be one of the most complicated things that 17 we are going to be taking up. 18 And, unfortunately, up until now, the 19 discussion really has been about money: Who pays 20 for it? Who -- who shouldn't? 21 And, you know, unfortunately, for us in 22 New York City, the majority of the kids who are 23 placed upstate, in facilities, are from the city of 24 New York. 25 TIM WEIDER: Exactly. 1 SENATOR SAVINO: There is a real desire to 2 bring them close -- actually, the program, they want 3 to call it, is, "Close To Home." 4 TIM WEIDER: Sure. 5 SENATOR SAVINO: And, towards that end, the 6 city has taken DJJ as a separate agency, that was 7 correction-based, and merged with it the 8 Administration for Children Services. 9 I'm not sure how it's going of work yet, but 10 their hope is, bring the kids home, it will cost the 11 City less money. We'll put services in place at the 12 community level. 13 They're not quite there yet, though, but it 14 will have an impact on the City programs. 15 TIM WEIDER: Well, let me provide with you an 16 opportunity. 17 Monroe County, I believe, is the only county 18 in the state that has its kids, in OCFS, in our 19 county. 20 So, the kids from this county are out in 21 Rush, New York, at the Industry Residential Center; 22 and, therefore, they're close to their families, 23 they're close to their home, and they're close to 24 the communities and neighborhoods that they're 25 going to be returning to. 1 So, we can build that model here. We've got 2 that leg up. 3 SENATOR GALLIVAN: I would like to go, kind 4 of the beginning of your testimony; and you talked 5 about, four years ago, there was a movement from 6 a -- for a juvenile justice correctional model, a 7 therapeutic model, and it's over. 8 TIM WEIDER: Yeah. 9 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Why's it over? 10 I mean, what -- 11 SENATOR SAVINO: What happened? 12 SENATOR GALLIVAN: -- what happened -- 13 TIM WEIDER: What happened? 14 SENATOR GALLIVAN: -- what happened, that 15 turned it from the direction that you think is the 16 proper direction, to the opposite direction? 17 TIM WEIDER: Essentially, the budget. 18 So, what happened was, when -- four or 19 five years ago, when OCFS looked at the research, 20 what they found was, again, that the behavior of 21 many of these young people was based on the trauma 22 they've experienced. 23 If I grew up in a neighborhood where I 24 regularly hear gunfire; if I personally know people, 25 even family members who have been shot and murdered, 1 including kids, okay; if I lived in a household 2 that's food-insecure, okay; if I'm seen as a failure 3 in school -- et cetera, et cetera -- those are 4 multiple areas of trauma that, in fact, change the 5 brain structure of that child, that leads to their 6 behavior. 7 So, based on that research -- two of us went 8 down to outside of New York City and were trained in 9 trauma-informed intervention, using the sanctuary 10 model. Okay? 11 And there were experts in that 12 trauma-informed model that came into the facility, 13 and began to train -- spent a whole year training 14 the staff, because we need to -- as adults, and 15 staff, need to know our trauma before we understand 16 the kids' trauma. 17 So, a great investment. Okay? 18 And then, only after the staff were trained, 19 did we begin to roll that out with the young people 20 in the facility. 21 A wonderful model; it began to show success. 22 Okay? 23 They began -- I told the -- 24 Sandra Bloom [ph.], who was the psychiatrist at 25 that -- who was responsible for this model, that: 1 You know, you can do this in the facility, but, send 2 them back to the neighborhood and it will last about 3 six seconds. That we need to have that same 4 perspective in the neighborhoods. 5 That process began, okay, very hopeful. And 6 then the budget hit. And we haven't seen those 7 folks from Sanctuary Initiative in, probably, 8 almost a year. 9 So, we need to revisit that, okay, and 10 reinstitute, and continue New York State along that 11 pathway. 12 SENATOR SAVINO:: Thank you. 13 TIM WEIDER: You're welcome. 14 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you. 15 SENATOR SAVINO: Next is, Garth Freeman, from 16 Monroe County Runaway Group Continuum. 17 GARTH FREEMAN: We have a whole bunch -- 18 SENATOR SAVINO: Yeah, the kids are coming 19 too; right? 20 Yeah, come on down. 21 CJ MOLLIS [ph.]: Hi. My name is 22 CJ Mollis [ph.], and I would like to thank 23 Senator Savino, and Gallivan, for hosting this 24 forum, and for the outgoing commitment to the youth 25 service and social service throughout New York 1 State. 2 MALIKA: My name is Malika [unintelligible], 3 and I would also like to thank you two Senators, and 4 their staff, for bringing this event to Rochester. 5 Today we will like to speak about the 6 importance and the impact of positive youth 7 development, and runaway and homeless youth service, 8 programs funded by the New York State Office of 9 Children and Family Services. 10 CJ MOLLIS [ph.]: Youth Bureau system has 11 provided generations of New York State youth with 12 quality programs that have given youth, like me, the 13 opportunity to develop leadership skills, and 14 become engaged and connect with my community. 15 I am currently the co-chair of Youth As 16 Resources, a youthful [unintelligible] program of 17 the Rochester, Monroe County, Youth Bureau, that is 18 funded through OCFS. I have been involved in the 19 program for over three years. 20 I am also involved in TLI, and other 21 community programs. 22 MALIKA: I have been a board member of Youth 23 As Resources, also known as "YAR," for over 24 three years. 25 CJ MOLLIS [ph.]: We look to you and your 1 colleagues to be stewards and -- of these funds, and 2 need you to be champions of all youth, and our 3 state, and beyond. 4 So, here are some facts. 5 Youth Bureau funding consists of 6 three funding streams: Youth development, and 7 delinquency intervention; special delinquency 8 prevention program; and, Runaway and Homeless Youth 9 Act. 10 If we look at the Governor's proposal for 11 2012 and 2013 budget, these three funding streams 12 for the Youth Bureau in New York State will be cut 13 at 62 percent -- 62 percent since 2007 and 2008. 14 MALIKA: The entire proposed New York State 15 fiscal year 2012-2013 budget is $132.5 billion. 16 The proposed budget for New York State youth 17 development, and runaway and homeless youth, 18 programs is 16.4 million; or, expressed as 19 percentage of a whole, .12 percent of the entire 20 proposed budget. 21 The language in the current proposed budget 22 makes it sound like this budget will even provide 23 funding from last year. 24 That is misleading, and the, State-, 25 local-elected officials needed to be made aware of 1 the following facts: 2 Our programs were cut 50 percent over the 3 two years, in 2011-2012 budget. 4 So, today, we are looking for another 5 25 percent cut from the total associated in 6 2010-2011. 7 Simple. Right? 8 CJ MOLLIS [ph.]: Actually, the cuts in the 9 years's budget are a 33 percent cut from last 10 year's allocation. 11 Again, super. Right? 12 Unfortunately, no. It's not simple, at all. 13 And this is why we are urging you to share 14 and help clarify these facts with your colleagues in 15 Albany. 16 And, importantly, to take us by -- supporting 17 us, in and reinstating a $60 million to 18 youth bureaus in New York State. 19 MALIKA: So back to the Youth Bureau funding, 20 and the proposed in the 2012-2013 budget: If 21 passed, as is, allocates $4.44 annually, per 22 month, ages 5 to 18, and our services really 23 impact youth, up to 21, and beyond. 24 That's a little more than one cent per day. 25 Split up among all New York State 1 taxpayers, let me be clear: 2 1 percent, per day, dividend among all 3 New York State taxpayers. Not a penny out of each 4 person's pocket each day; one penny spent by all 5 taxpayers. 6 What if it was all, two cents per day? 7 I'm just saying. 8 CJ MOLLIS [ph.]: So what happens when these 9 programs and services are not funded? 10 We believe in -- and evidence supports, 11 that it puts our youth in greater risk of engaging 12 in high-risk behaviors, like, drug use, violence, 13 and as the name of the funding stream suggests, 14 delinquency. 15 Remember to that -- Remember, too, that these 16 funding streams also support emergency shelter and 17 crisis intervention programs that provide a safe 18 bed and supportive environment for most vulnerable 19 youth. 20 Without these funds, youth shelters' beds and 21 support services will be decreased. 22 Youth will find themselves without place to 23 stay, will be forced to put themselves in an unsafe 24 situation that jeopardizes their future, and our 25 future as a community. 1 MALIKA: The financial cost to New York State 2 taxpayers are also undeniable. 3 Compared to the $4.44 per youth, annually, 4 for the youth bureaus, to the 120,000 annual cost of 5 keeping a youth in the secured detention. 6 We know that these programs can't end. 7 They're there for all juvenile detentions. 8 But, if we could keep just one young person 9 out of detention, we can save taxpayers, 10 literally, hundreds and thousands of dollars per 11 year. 12 CJ MOLLIS [ph.]: You may be thinking that 13 someone else prepared these remarks, and that Malika 14 and I are just a mouthpiece for these positions. 15 And, in some ways you're right. 16 However, in most ways you're wrong. 17 We met with our adult support staff at the 18 Youth Bureau and talked about these issues, to learn 19 the vocabulary, terminology, and the numbers, to 20 gain insight into the government system, and 21 community needs; and to formulate our own opinions 22 about what is important for ourselves, and our 23 neighbors, communities, and the state of New York. 24 I am a proud member of Youth As Resources, a 25 program that is funded by New York State OCFS, 1 because it has impacted my life. It has impacted my 2 family's life. 3 I have bettered my education. I have the 4 support that I do need, to move on in my life, and 5 move from the things that I have struggled with 6 before. 7 I get to do things, I have the opportunities 8 to do things, that most youth my age do not have the 9 chance, and most adults that are older than me 10 have not got a chance to do. Like, doing 11 interviews; and coming to these things; and going to 12 conferences, traveling around the United States. 13 I have been to Atlanta, I have been to 14 Cincinnati, so far. And, I will be going to Albany. 15 So this is something that I keep dear to my 16 heart. 17 I have been part of Youth As Resources for 18 five years, because I love it, and because these 19 things are important to me. 20 MALIKA: That is how our youth programs 21 function. We work in partnership with adults, to 22 learn and gain the valuable skills and experiences 23 that will serve us today, and into the future. 24 If I was not involved with YAR, I wouldn't be 25 able to stand in front of you today to present this 1 information. 2 Maybe, but I know, that without this group, 3 and other youth groups like it, I would not be the 4 person I am today. 5 I am a proud member of YAR, and a program 6 funded by New York State OCFS, because it is helped 7 me to become a better person. And, I also have, you 8 know, I've also become better in my education. It's 9 given me more family support, and social support. 10 And, also, to provide this information for 11 you is a great opportunity, because, people also my 12 age, you know, they don't get to have this 13 opportunity as I do. And, it's a great opportunity 14 for me. 15 CJ MOLLIS [ph.]: Youth As Resources is the 16 family. And without this support of you, and all of 17 the other senators, and stuff, and the funding that 18 we need, we would not be together as we are. 19 We are -- it's just a big family in the 20 Youth Bureau. And, it's something that we do need, 21 in the county, in the state...youth bureaus all 22 over. 23 TRISHA GLYKOFF [ph.]: Hi. My name is 24 Trisha Glykoff [ph.]. 25 I have relied on homeless youth services more 1 than once, and have got much support from homeless 2 youth services. 3 Shelters for homeless youth give children 4 an immediate safe place to stay, rather than staying 5 in an environment where CPS is involved, and the 6 child just has to wait for them to investigate while 7 they're still in an unsafe place. 8 Shelters are immediate. It's very 9 important for youth to feel like they have somewhere 10 to go if they feel unsafe. 11 There are a lot of homeless youth today that 12 not a lot of people recognize, and they don't pay 13 attention to it as much. So, they don't think that 14 shelters are important, or the services are that 15 important. 16 And, youth services provide counseling, 17 support, for the homeless, and, just emotional 18 support too. 19 If there weren't services like this, I 20 personally don't know what I would have done, 21 because they give you emotional support, and they 22 help you through everything. 23 SENATOR SAVINO:: Thank you. 24 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you. 25 1 SENATOR SAVINO: I know, for both 2 Senator Gallivan and I, these programs are top of 3 our list of restorations. There's not a lot of 4 money, statewide. 5 You know, last year we were very disappointed 6 to see the Governor cut the Runaway Homeless Youth 7 Program. 8 We're got a lot of support from our 9 colleagues in other parts of the state, and county 10 governments, and City of New York, to demand the 11 restoration of this money, because, as you pointed 12 out, it could be the difference between life and 13 death for a young person who has to leave home 14 because they're in danger. 15 Thank you. 16 The big people back there, do you have 17 anything to say? 18 BILL GUTSCHOW: I just wanted to say -- my 19 name is Bill Gutschow. I'm the program manager of 20 the Salvation Army's Genesis House, a runaway 21 homeless youth shelter that serves ages 22 16 to 20. 23 You mentioned earlier in this hearing, or, 24 beginning of the hearing, you know: What do you do, 25 more with less? 1 SENATOR SAVINO: Uh-huh. 2 BILL GUTSCHOW: And a lot of our shelters 3 have been doing more with less. 4 Since 2009, when funding started to get cut, 5 we have seen a 20 percent increase in the need for 6 services. So, we received 80 percent cuts, and 7 receive 20 percent increase. And we've worked with 8 that amount of need. 9 We have decreased staff to the lowest, per 10 OCFS regulations, but we have maintained bed space. 11 Additional cuts in fundings could result in 12 loss of beds for the Genesis House. 13 And that's what we just wanted to call the 14 attention to, you, for coming today. 15 Thank you. 16 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you. 17 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you. 18 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I would just like to 19 add, I want to echo, [unintelligible], and everybody 20 coming up here today, around, permanency. 21 The runaway and homeless youth services, for 22 years, have provided that safety net for these 23 other systems -- for CPS, for foster care, for 24 juvenile justice systems -- where we, either, 25 catch youth coming out of them, or we're helping 1 youth avoid them, or we're helping youth reconnect 2 to the services and the systems that can really help 3 them. 4 And we do it really efficiently, and for not 5 a lot of money. 6 And, so, I think that it's important, when 7 we're thinking about that permanency, with Hillside 8 was talking about the family finding, runaway and 9 homeless youth services have had to do it for years. 10 Most of the young people we work with, go 11 home. That, we're creating those bridges, and 12 building those connections, and those permanent, 13 life-long situations where these young people can be 14 successful. 15 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you. 16 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: So, I'm going to add 17 something -- 18 And is this on? 19 SENATOR SAVINO: Yes, that's on. 20 A COUNCILWOMAN: Okay. 21 How are you? 22 Is it okay? 23 I can also shout, you know that. You folks 24 know me. 25 And I'm a city councilwoman. I'm on your 1 side an awful lot. So, I'm so grateful that you're 2 sitting here all day, and your words are so 3 heartwarming. 4 We're going to give you a speaking-out piece 5 that actually appeared in a very timely way. 6 You may actually have it. 7 It's not my story. It's Kendra's story. 8 And Kendra came to the Center for Youth, 9 where I am the executive director, when she was in 10 her mid-teens, totally without family support. 11 And, today, at 24 -- 12 And this, of course, is in celebration of her 13 24th birthday. 14 -- she's holding a diploma from RIT. She's 15 enrolled in graduate school, here in the community, 16 and, she's working, which is why she's not here 17 today. 18 She calls me "mom." My kids are jealous. 19 That's okay. 20 So, Kendra is the reason I'm here, because, 21 we kept her out of systems. We kept her in 22 cost-effective systems that made an impact on her 23 life. 24 And you both know, I mean, this is not news 25 to you: We already are not able to meet the need. 1 At the Center for Youth, we are the only 2 agency that can take emergency foster -- emergency 3 homeless -- not foster -- emergency homeless kids, 4 12 to 15. 5 In the last two years, we turned away as many 6 as we took. 7 A 12- to 15-year-old cannot be on the 8 streets. It's just not acceptable in our 9 community, and in our state. 10 I know you don't want that. 11 We don't want that. 12 In fact, OCFS has tried so hard to work with 13 us, that they added a thirteenth bed when we asked 14 them to give us another bed. 15 So, they got it. 16 And that's, of course, is the irony: Adding 17 a bed in a shelter at the same time you're taking 18 away funding. 19 We will not close our doors. 20 We will not. 21 But we can't keep the kids, the number of 22 kids we need in our system, without your support. 23 We can't take another 25 percent cut. The 24 youth bureaus can't take the cut. 25 If they try to hold us harmless, they'll hurt 1 something else. 2 We're all in this together. We're in a big 3 boat, and if you make a hole, here, we're all going 4 go down. 5 So, read about Kendra. I wish she was here, 6 so you could say "Happy Birthday" to her. 7 She spent her 24th birthday in Las~Vegas, so 8 it made me a little nervous. 9 SENATOR SAVINO: Good for her. 10 A COUNCILWOMAN: But you know, what? 11 She won, and she's back, and she had the best 12 time. 13 And that's what 24-year-olds do. 14 And when I met her at 15, I had my doubts 15 about whether she would live to 24. 16 SENATOR SAVINO: How much of your budget do 17 you -- are you able to derive from private 18 donations, philanthropy? 19 A COUNCILWOMAN: We leverage -- I mean, let 20 me tell you about United Way, just for that. 21 United Way is leveraged dollars, at this 22 point. 23 And I think this is embarrassing: Our 24 United Way allocation is more than you're giving me 25 from OCFS for my homeless shelter. More than. 1 When I started at this agency 10 years ago, 2 we had $333,000. 3 If you cut us, the way you're projected, 4 we're at $187,000 dollar. 5 United Way allocation for my shelter, 6 two twenty-seven. 7 So I'm leveraging every second. 8 We have private donators, funders, who 9 give us whatever they can, but it's not going help. 10 The other thing is, that we -- and I hope 11 you -- I invite you back, both of you, for 12 Fashion Week. We run something called 13 "Fashion Week." We raise money. 14 We do everything we can to leverage our 15 dollars. At some point, the inn is full. 16 I'm just so grateful for your work, and, 17 thanks so much. 18 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you. 19 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Let me ask: The kids that 20 you're turning away, where do they go? 21 A COUNCILWOMAN: That's a good question. 22 They couch-surf. They end up back in unsafe 23 situations. We see them on street. They end up 24 hanging out with older kids in incredibly unsafe 25 situations. 1 Then you have another level of crisis and 2 trauma. 3 So, we can't keep them safe. That's the 4 whole point. 5 Everybody says: Where do they go? 6 They go back where they were, which was 7 unsafe to begin with. 8 The other thing is, our shelter's completely 9 voluntary. There are no mandates. So, you know 10 those kids are coming to us in pretty desperate 11 situations, on their own. 12 So, they're staying in places, they're 13 doubling-up. They're sleeping on the streets. 14 You know, we've had a mild winter, but, it's 15 still Rochester. 16 So, thank you, Senator. 17 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you. 18 BILL GUTSCHOW: [Unintelligible] to say is, 19 abandoned houses, where drug abuse is prevalent, as 20 well as any other type of delinquency. 21 Obviously, the heat and utilities are not on 22 so it's still cold in the houses. 23 I believe earlier this year, a 17-year-old 24 youth was -- they found dead in one of those houses. 25 So what we -- the Genesis House, as well, 1 turns away over 150 youth a year, due to being 2 full. 3 And, they will find places to go, but not 4 home, and not somewhere safe. 5 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Okay. Thanks everybody. 6 A COUNCILWOMAN: Thank you, Senators. 7 BILL GUTSCHOW: Thank you for your time. 8 SENATOR SAVINO: And our last speaker is, 9 Dan Ross, from the Children's Agenda. 10 DAN ROSS: Tough act to follow. 11 Thank you for accommodating me, despite a 12 foul-up on our end in making the appropriate 13 arrangements. I appreciate it. 14 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Glad you're here. 15 Dan Ross: I'm Dan Ross. I'm chair of the 16 Children's Agenda policy committee. 17 The Children's Agenda is a local, small 18 not-for-profit organization. We do two things, 19 basically: 20 We advocate for evidence-based programs, 21 and we do analysis of city and county and, 22 hopefully, school district, and in future budgets. 23 To maintain our objectivity, we do not accept 24 funds from either government agencies or from 25 service providers. So, it's philanthropic, and a 1 lot of hard work to get a little money. 2 We're a very small organization. 3 Before I retired, I was the director of 4 Child and Family Services for the Monroe County 5 Department of Social Services. So, I know many of 6 the issues that people have been talking about 7 today, in some ways a little better than I would 8 like to. 9 This decade, the twenty-first century, has 10 been terrible for families and children. It really 11 has. 12 The report I gave you is a local one, modeled 13 on some work that I think Nick Kristof did at 14 "New York Times," talking about "the lost decade." 15 But, we have data from Monroe County, and, 16 things are not getting better, they're getting 17 worse. And there's some areas where they're getting 18 better, but, they're getting worse. And we 19 really -- really need to pay attention to that. 20 We've also done a brief overview of the 21 Governor's objective budget. I'm going to have to 22 mail that to you because, someone is out sick today 23 and we're sort of playing catch-up. But, I will do 24 that. 25 I'm going to talk about, in fairly general 1 terms, about four issues facing our families. 2 One is, child care; 3 One is, home-visiting programs; 4 One is, homeless -- runaway and homeless 5 youth services; 6 And one is, services for children with 7 special needs. 8 I may actually weave my biography into this 9 because it fits in some cases. 10 Ten years ago, there were 12,000, slightly 11 more, children in -- receiving daycare subsidy in 12 Monroe County. It's down to about 7,000. 13 Jackie's figures are probably more accurate 14 than mine, but it's close to a 50 percent reduction. 15 One of the very first things I did when I 16 came to Monroe County -- I was hired as a planning 17 coordinator -- was -- and this was during the budget 18 cuts during the early '80s, and we cut subsidized 19 daycare for a large number of families then. 20 My first task was to try to track those 21 families. And we tracked them, and we had a 22 comparison group that we could compare them to. 23 We went in, and -- because of what everyone 24 said, and you have heard this is: They'll go off 25 welfare. They'll go into welfare. They'll quit 1 working, and go into welfare. Well, they can't do 2 it. 3 And beyond that, families really want to 4 work. Parents want to set a good example for 5 their children. They want to be productive 6 members of society. 7 So they did not -- the rates of people going 8 onto public assistance were no higher than they were 9 before the programs were cut. 10 What did happen, though, frightens me; and 11 that is, that children became latch-key children. 12 Children became kids who were at home, being cared 13 for by an older, nonetheless, pre-adolescent 14 sibling. They became kids who spent time in four or 15 five different care settings each week. Grandma's 16 one day, an aunts's another day, the neighbor when 17 the neighbor could do. 18 And we all know, the evidence is 19 overwhelming, that what children need in those early 20 years of development is, a consistent, loving, 21 knowledgeable caregiver: a parent, a grandparent, 22 a daycare provider. 23 But, consistency, is really critical. 24 Otherwise, you just don't get the kind of 25 development you should have. 1 We make up for some of that in Monroe County 2 with what is, arguably, the best pre-K program in 3 the nation, that meets international standards, 4 but, we're playing catch-up. 5 We realize the problem is driven largely by 6 the lack of federal funds. 7 Monroe County invests more than it's required 8 to, in child care. New York State is investing a 9 little more than it's required to, in child care. 10 But, we need to figure out ways to do better. 11 And, more importantly, I think we need to 12 work together, to ensure some increase -- seems 13 unlikely, but I'm always hopeful -- in federal 14 funds, because that's the backbone of this service. 15 I was very fortunate that I was supervising 16 day care here, when -- or administering it, when the 17 rule was: Okay, if you can spend it, we'll 18 reimburse you. 19 And we grew the program to, thirteen, 20 fourteen thousand kids. 21 That's no longer the case. 22 Those were all people who need. It's 23 probably the best indicator of the magnitude of the 24 need: The number we were serving who meet the same 25 criteria, in theory, that we have now. 1 Second issue: home visiting. 2 Monroe County is actually the home of the 3 nurse-family partnership. 4 Began 30 -- more than 30 years ago, at the 5 University of Rochester. The initial work was in 6 Kentucky. It's been replicated throughout the 7 country. And it's finally come home to 8 Monroe County, and, to New York City. 9 There's a big home -- there's a big 10 nurse-family partnership program in New York. We 11 joined Mayor Bloomberg in supporting $5 million, to 12 be dedicated to funding for the nurse-family 13 partnership. 14 But we strongly believe that the best 15 long-term solution is to heed the Medicaid Redesign 16 Team's recommendation to make NFD a fully covered 17 Medicaid-preventive service for high-risk, 18 first-time mothers, and their children. 19 And we urge that that program be extended, I 20 suppose, through, say, State Health Insurance 21 Department, to private insurers. 22 Building this kind of care into medical care 23 is sensible, appropriate, and would really help the 24 issue. 25 Services for runaway and homeless youth: 1 Shelters are a part of the safety net, and 2 the safety net is frayed. 3 We don't want to wait for a law, a new law, 4 to be named after an adolescent who died on the 5 streets. But we're going to get one if we don't 6 pay more attention to those service. 7 Kids need a safe place to go. 8 I was -- this goes back a long way -- but I 9 was chairman of the board of the Center for Youth, 10 who you just heard speaking, a long time ago, when 11 we bought the place that's the shelter now. 12 It's a wonderful home. It's a marvelous 13 place for kids in need to be. 14 And we need to be able to meet the needs of 15 those kids. 16 We cannot -- "we cannot" -- afford a 17 33 percent reduction. We can do better. 18 Children with special needs: 19 Through an accident of fate, I was 20 responsible for Monroe County's Early Intervention 21 Program for about three years. And during -- so I 22 really know how rapidly it has grown, and how 23 expensive it has become. 24 Nonetheless, I believe there are 25 opportunities for us to become more efficient, to 1 save money, and to continue to provide top-quality 2 services. But we can't simply cut our way to 3 quality. We need some time -- some time, and spend 4 some real energy, figuring out how to do these 5 services better. 6 Let's slow down just a little bit, improve 7 the system. 8 And we'll run into resistant service 9 providers who say: You can't do it better. 10 But, we've been through that. 11 We can do it, if we spend some time on it, 12 and some energy on it, and we don't do the cuts up 13 front. 14 Make sure that we do the work effectively in 15 the long run. 16 Figuring those out will be difficult, but we 17 can do better. 18 And, finally, it's not really a program, but 19 it fits in with the agenda of the 20 Children's Agenda: We really believe strongly in 21 the importance of evidence-based programs. And we 22 advocate for them. 23 Most of the programs that we work for are 24 evidence-based. 25 Good information about evidence program -- 1 evidence-based programs is widely available now. 2 There's a federal government center that 3 collects it. The legislature of the state of 4 Washington has had a standing policy group doing 5 work on evaluating evidenced programs for 10 to 6 15 years. There's additional work being done in 7 California. 8 You don't need to reinvent the wheel. You 9 need to figure out what's out there, that meets the 10 needs of the group you're trying to work with, and 11 take advantage of it. 12 I also need to say, because, sometimes when 13 people talk about evidence-based, it's been 14 asserted, we don't always have to meet the highest 15 evidentiary standards. There is not going to be a 16 double-blind experimental study for every kind of 17 program. And some of them don't need it. 18 I would argue, the Center for Youth Services 19 Runaway Shelter doesn't need it. But what you need 20 for them, is to make sure kids are safe, and, track 21 outcomes. 22 But, you should try, in any program, for the 23 highest possible standard of evidence-based that is 24 applicable to that program. And that means, doing 25 some work -- the state bureaucrats are pretty good 1 at some of this -- at figuring out: 2 What is working other places; 3 What the cost benefits are; 4 And, then, probably biding -- and this isn't 5 in here -- but what may be the most difficult bullet 6 for people like you, and that, is: The realization 7 that costs are always in the short run, and benefits 8 are always in the long run; and it really creates 9 a dilemma for all of us. 10 Thank you for your time. 11 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you. 12 SENATOR SAVINO:: That's it. We're done. 13 SENATOR GALLIVAN: We're good. 14 SENATOR SAVINO: Yeah, we're done. 15 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Well, we thank those of 16 you that have remained, for being here, and 17 everybody who testified. 18 Thanks. 19 20 (Whereupon, at approximately 3:25 p.m., 21 the jointly held roundtable held by the New York 22 State Senate Standing Committees on 23 Social Services, and, Children and Family 24 Services, concluded.) 25 ---oOo---