Monday, January 31, 2011

1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE 2 3 4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 January 31, 2011 11 3:07 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR ROBERT J. DUFFY, President 19 FRANCIS W. PATIENCE, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24 25

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will 3 now come to order, please. 4 I ask everyone to please stand and 5 join me in the Pledge of Allegiance. 6 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 7 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 8 THE PRESIDENT: Next we'll have 9 the Reverend Peter G. Young, from the Mother 10 Teresa Community Center. 11 REVEREND YOUNG: Thank you, 12 Governor. 13 Today I'd like, if I could, to say 14 dear Mother Nature, please be gentle as we 15 expect two feet of snow. It's not always easy 16 to be gentle. And in the political world 17 we're taught to be tough, competitive and 18 assertive. But there are times when we like 19 to be soothed and treated gently. We treat 20 packages with gentleness when they are labeled 21 "Fragile, Handle With Care." 22 So we ask our compassionate God to 23 give us the sensitivity and the courage to be 24 gentle with other people. Help us to hear 25 them and the anguish and the hurt in other

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 people, and to treat them with kindly care. 2 We'd like, if we could, to take a 3 moment to remember Senator Velella, who served 4 here for a long time, approximately 30 years 5 of dedicated service. We pray that he will be 6 now welcomed in heaven, as he has died this 7 past week. 8 Amen. 9 THE PRESIDENT: Next, the reading 10 of the Journal. 11 The Secretary will read. 12 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 13 Sunday, January 30, the Senate met pursuant to 14 adjournment. The Journal of Saturday, 15 January 29, was read and approved. On motion, 16 Senate adjourned. 17 THE PRESIDENT: Without 18 objection, the Journal stands approved as 19 read. 20 Next, we'll have presentation of 21 petitions. 22 Any messages from the Assembly? 23 Messages from the Governor. 24 Reports of standing committees. 25 The Secretary will read.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 THE SECRETARY: Senator 2 DeFrancisco, from the Committee on Finance, 3 reports the following nomination. 4 As superintendent of the State 5 Police, Joseph A. D'Amico, of West Nyack. 6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 7 DeFrancisco. 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I'm very 9 pleased to move the nomination of Joseph A. 10 D'Amico, of West Nyack, as superintendent of 11 the State Police. 12 Mr. D'Amico went through the Crime 13 and Corrections Committee and was unanimously 14 referred to the Finance Committee, went to the 15 Finance Committee and we unanimously voted to 16 approve his nomination and bring it to the 17 floor for a final vote. 18 I just want to say that the 19 Governor did a wonderful job in encouraging 20 and making certain that we had a good person 21 as the superintendent of State Police. In 22 this day and age when people have not very 23 good things to say about government and people 24 who serve government, we're very fortunate the 25 Governor nominated Mr. D'Amico, who has an

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 incredible, incredible career in law 2 enforcement, and an individual who wants to 3 participate in government and make government 4 better. 5 He's a cop's cop and he understands 6 the problems we've had with State Police over 7 the last few years -- not the membership, not 8 the rank-and-file, but a few people at the 9 top. And he's taking -- he has indicated he's 10 going to take that responsibility to make sure 11 that the stature of the State Police, 12 especially the people at the top, is restored 13 to what it was in the past. 14 So I'm very pleased to rise and 15 support the nomination and move the nomination 16 of Mr. D'Amico, and I know that he's going to 17 make an absolutely outstanding superintendent 18 of State Police for the State of New York. 19 Thank you, Mr. President. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 21 Senator. 22 Senator Nozzolio. 23 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, 24 Mr. President. On the nomination. 25 Mr. President and my colleagues, in

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 the years 1995 through 2007, that 12-year 2 period, we had one superintendent in the 3 New York State Police. Over the last four 4 years, with the inclusion of the nominee who 5 is before us, we will have had four 6 superintendents of the New York State Police. 7 One of the issues that the new 8 nominee, Mr. D'Amico, will be bringing to this 9 important position is to restore stability 10 among the ranks. And I echo the comments of 11 Senator DeFrancisco. 12 As I heard and reviewed 13 Mr. D'Amico's qualifications and comments as 14 he spoke before the Crime Victims, Crime and 15 Corrections Committee and the Finance 16 Committee, in answering that question, he did 17 an exemplary job and it was clear and apparent 18 that the type of police officer's police 19 officer that Mr. D'Amico has been throughout 20 his career is exactly what is needed now in 21 the stewardship of the most important law 22 enforcement unit, in my opinion, not only in 23 New York but in the entire nation. 24 Joseph D'Amico is extremely well 25 qualified, has had an exemplary career as a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 police officer, as an inspector, in working 2 with the Attorney General's office. And that 3 I compliment Governor Cuomo on this nomination 4 and look forward to this Senate working very 5 hard to ensure that the challenges met by the 6 superintendent are met and that we do not see 7 a return from the successes that this body 8 helped put in place in establishing the most 9 dramatic drop in violent crime that any state 10 experienced in the history of our union. 11 It's an excellent appointment. I'm 12 proud to second the nomination and look 13 forward to working with Superintendent D'Amico 14 in meeting the challenges that our State 15 Police will be confronting in the weeks and 16 months ahead. 17 Thank you, Mr. President. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 19 Senator. 20 Senator Carlucci. 21 SENATOR CARLUCCI: Thank you, 22 Mr. President. 23 It's an absolute honor to stand 24 here in support of nominating Mr. Joseph 25 D'Amico, who resides in the 38th Senate

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 District. And it's an absolute honor and 2 privilege to have him and his family as one of 3 my constituents in the district. 4 Mr. D'Amico has a long and 5 distinguished career serving the community 6 which he serves in. And I think Governor 7 Cuomo has made a great decision in putting 8 forth Mr. D'Amico to serve all of us as the 9 next superintendent of the New York State 10 Police. 11 The men and women that serve us in 12 the New York State Police Department really 13 deserve the best leader possible. And I am 14 honored and privileged to support 15 Mr. D'Amico's nomination and look forward to 16 you serving all of us in that capacity. 17 Thank you. 18 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 19 Senator. 20 Senator Golden. 21 SENATOR GOLDEN: Thank you, 22 Mr. President. 23 I too rise in support of the new 24 superintendent, Joe D'Amico. I had the 25 privilege of knowing Mr. D'Amico when he

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 worked for the New York City Police Department 2 and when he worked for the Attorney General's 3 office. And we have seen the successes that 4 he was able to obtain working the streets of 5 the Bronx and working the streets of the City 6 of New York and the State of New York. We've 7 seen what he was able to achieve when it came 8 to Medicaid fraud and Wall Street and other 9 great issues that faced our great state and 10 our nation. 11 And he was a true leader, and he 12 had 40,000 police officers, and down to about 13 32,000 police officers. So he did more with 14 less. 15 And that's the type of person that 16 we're going to need going forward: A good 17 manager, a person that knows how the police 18 departments are across this great city and 19 state, and how to deal with the ever-pressing 20 issues that will come before him over the next 21 several years. And it's good to see a steady 22 hand that will be leading the state troopers 23 across this great state as we move forward. 24 I remember, as you do, the times 25 when we had 2,200 or 2,145 homicides in the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 State of New York. Those were outrageous 2 days, and they weren't too long ago. They 3 were in the early 1990s. And yes, we are in 4 the history books of being the greatest state 5 of being able to reduce crime. But I don't 6 want to be in the history book that raises 7 crime and be one of those states that will 8 cause more homicides, more robberies and 9 burglaries into our communities. 10 And I know that with the experience 11 of our new superintendent that we will be able 12 to keep crime down and to be able to keep the 13 resources flowing that we need for our state 14 troopers. And I will be voting aye for our 15 new superintendent, Superintendent D'Amico. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Thanks, Senator. 17 Senator Gallivan. 18 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you, 19 Mr. President. 20 I also rise to commend the Governor 21 on the appointment of Joseph D'Amico as the 22 next State Police superintendent. 23 As a former New York state trooper, 24 former sheriff of Erie County, I know full 25 well the importance of having a true law

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 enforcement professional head such an 2 important agency to the citizens of New York. 3 Growing up, if you will, in my 4 professional career in the State Police, there 5 was a time when the State Police was 6 recognized as the premier agency across the 7 country. And we've seen the problems in the 8 recent past. And it will take a professional 9 to restore it to its rightful place as a 10 leader across the country. 11 And not only do I pledge my vote 12 today in support of this appointment but my 13 support, to the extent that I can, in 14 supporting Superintendent D'Amico and keeping 15 the citizens of New York State safe and 16 returning the New York State Police to its 17 rightful place as the premier agency in the 18 country. 19 Thank you. 20 THE PRESIDENT: Thanks, Senator. 21 Any other Senators wishing to speak 22 on the nomination? 23 (No response.) 24 THE PRESIDENT: The question is 25 on the nomination of Joseph A. D'Amico, of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 West Nyack, as superintendent of the New York 2 State Police. All in favor signify by saying 3 aye. 4 (Response of "Aye.") 5 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay. 6 (No response.) 7 THE PRESIDENT: Joseph A. D'Amico 8 is hereby confirmed as superintendent of the 9 New York State Police. 10 Superintendent D'Amico. 11 (Standing ovation.) 12 THE PRESIDENT: I also want to 13 congratulate Superintendent D'Amico's wife, 14 Judith. 15 Next, reports of select committees. 16 Communications and reports from 17 state officers. 18 Motions and resolutions. 19 Senator LaValle. 20 SENATOR LaVALLE: Mr. President, 21 would you recognize Senator Breslin, please. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Breslin. 23 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you, 24 Senator LaValle. Thank you, Mr. President. 25 On behalf of Senator Squadron, I

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 move that the following bill be discharged 2 from its respective committee and be 3 recommitted with instructions to strike the 4 enacting clause: Senate Print 2326. 5 THE PRESIDENT: So ordered. 6 SENATOR BRESLIN: On behalf of 7 Senator Krueger, I move that the following 8 bill be discharged from its respective 9 committee and be recommitted with instructions 10 to strike the enacting clause: Senate Bill 11 432. 12 THE PRESIDENT: So ordered. 13 SENATOR BRESLIN: And on behalf 14 of Senator Peralta, I move that the following 15 bill be discharged from its respective 16 committee and be recommitted with instructions 17 to strike the enacting clause: Senate Print 18 1876. 19 THE PRESIDENT: So ordered. 20 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you, 21 Mr. President. 22 THE PRESIDENT: Senator LaValle. 23 SENATOR LaVALLE: Mr. President, 24 I believe there's a privileged resolution at 25 the desk by Senator Perkins. May we please

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 have the resolution read in its entirety and 2 move for its immediate adoption. 3 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 4 will read the resolution in its entirety. 5 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 6 Perkins, Legislative Resolution Number 358, 7 honoring Howard Dodson upon the occasion of 8 his designation for special recognition by the 9 New York Public Library's Schomburg Center for 10 Research in Black Culture. 11 "WHEREAS, It is the sense of this 12 Legislative Body to recognize that the quality 13 and character of life in the communities 14 across New York State are reflective of the 15 concerned and dedicated efforts of those 16 individuals who devote themselves to the 17 welfare of the community and its citizenry; 18 and 19 "WHEREAS, Attendant to such 20 concern, and in full accord with its 21 long-standing traditions, this Legislative 22 Body is justly proud to honor Howard Dodson 23 upon the occasion of his designation for 24 special recognition by the New York Public 25 Library's Schomburg Center for Research in

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Black Culture located in Harlem, New York; and 2 "WHEREAS, Howard Dodson, chief of 3 the Schomburg Center for Research in Black 4 Culture of the New York Public Library since 5 1984, is being acknowledged for his 6 long-standing tenure with the organization. 7 He is a specialist in African-American history 8 and a noted lecturer, educator, and 9 consultant; and 10 "WHEREAS, Earning his B.S. degree 11 in 1961 at West Chester State College and 12 graduating from Villanova University in 1964, 13 Howard Dodson completed the requirements for 14 an ABD at the University of California at 15 Berkeley in 1974. He has been awarded 16 Honorary Doctorates of Humane Letters by the 17 following: Widener University in 1987, 18 Adelphi University in May of 2004, West 19 Chester University of Pennsylvania in June of 20 2005, the City College of New York in June of 21 2006, and an Honorary Doctorate of Letters 22 from Villanova University in May of 2007; and 23 "WHEREAS, Prior to assuming his 24 position at the Schomburg Center, Howard 25 Dodson served as a consultant in the office of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 the chairman of the National Endowment for the 2 Humanities in Washington, D.C., from 1979 to 3 1982. He also served in a number of 4 capacities from 1970 to 1979 at the Institute 5 of the Black World in Atlanta, Georgia, 6 including executive director from 1974 to 7 1979; and 8 "WHEREAS, Before joining the 9 institute, Mr. Dodson was a Peace Corps 10 volunteer in Equador from 1964 to 1966 and a 11 national Peace Corps office staff member from 12 1966 to 1969, including the positions of 13 deputy director of recruiting and director of 14 minority and specialized recruiting; and 15 "WHEREAS, Howard Dodson has taught 16 at California State College at Hayward, Emory 17 University, Shaw University, the City 18 University of New York, and Columbia 19 University. Under his leadership, the 20 Schomburg Center has developed into the 21 world's most comprehensive public research 22 library devoted exclusively to documenting and 23 interpreting African Diaspora and African 24 history and culture; and 25 "WHEREAS, During Howard Dodson's

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 tenure, the center's collections have more 2 than doubled, totaling over 10 million items. 3 Users have increased from 40,000 to over 4 125,000 annually; and 5 "WHEREAS, In 1989, Howard Dodson 6 completed a large capital campaign. In 1991, 7 he completed a major physical development 8 program which renovated the original Schomburg 9 Center building and created the Langston 10 Hughes Auditorium. More recently, he 11 completed a historic 75th Anniversary Capital 12 Campaign, raising a significant amount; and 13 "WHEREAS, Howard Dodson established 14 a Scholars-In-Residence program which has 15 provided six-month and one-year fellowships 16 for the more than 108 scholars who have been 17 provided for over the last 20 years. His 18 aggressive educational and cultural 19 programming agenda produces and presents 50 to 20 75 events annually, as well as four to six 21 exhibitions; and 22 "WHEREAS, Howard Dodson has 23 published 10 books as well as articles and 24 essays in newspapers, exhibition catalogs, and 25 professional journals. His most recent

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 publication is Becoming American: The 2 African-American Journey (Sterling Publishing, 3 Inc., 2009). His other publications include 4 In Motion: The African-American Migration 5 Experience (National Geographic Press, 2005), 6 Jubilee: The Emergence of African-American 7 Culture (National Geographic Press, 2002) and 8 The Black New Yorkers: Four Hundred Years of 9 African-American History (Wiley, 2000); and 10 "WHEREAS, Howard Dodson has curated 11 exhibitions on such diverse themes as 12 'Censorship and Black America' and 'Lest We 13 Forget: The Triumph Over Slavery,' and has 14 organized and produced major performing arts 15 events at Carnegie Hall and the Schubert and 16 Majestic Theaters on Broadway. Most recently, 17 he conceived, organized and directed the 18 development of a major website entitled 'In 19 Motion: The African-American Migration 20 Experience'; and 21 "WHEREAS, Howard Dodson served as 22 chair of the Federal Steering Committee on the 23 African Burial Ground. He was a founding 24 member of the board of directors of the Upper 25 Manhattan Empowerment Zone, serving on its

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 executive committee and as chair of the 2 cultural arts committee; and 3 "WHEREAS, In addition, Howard 4 Dodson was director of the research study to 5 establish the New York State Freedom Trail and 6 was a member of the President's Commission on 7 the National Museum of African-American 8 history and culture. He was also a former 9 member of the board of directors of the Apollo 10 Theater and now currently serves on the 11 Scientific and Technical Committee of the 12 UNESCO Slave Route Project; and 13 "WHEREAS, A true asset to Harlem, 14 New York City, the State of New York and the 15 world, Howard Dodson's distinguished record 16 merits the recognition and respectful tribute 17 of this Legislative Body; now, therefore, be 18 it 19 "RESOLVED, That this Legislative 20 Body pause in its deliberations to honor 21 Howard Dodson upon the occasion of his 22 designation for special recognition by the 23 New York Public Library's Schomburg Center for 24 Research in Black Culture, and be it further 25 "RESOLVED, That a copy of this

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted 2 to Howard Dodson, Chief, Schomburg Center for 3 Research in Black Culture of the New York 4 Public Library." 5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Perkins. 6 SENATOR PERKINS: Thank you very 7 much. I will be brief. 8 I wanted to express my appreciation 9 especially for you reading it into the record 10 as you have. 11 This individual was very, very 12 important in terms of my community and 13 particularly in terms of New York City. And I 14 think, if you know anything about Arturo 15 Schomburg, he was a great historian who was 16 one of the first to collect historical 17 artifacts, historical books, historical 18 information about the African-American and 19 Latino experience, which includes Puerto 20 Ricans. And he's a Puerto Rican that happens 21 to also be black. 22 So for those of us who identify 23 with him and his legacy, it's amazing the work 24 that Dr. Howard Dodson did to build up his 25 collection, to make it such a significant

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 collection, world-renowned. This is not just 2 a neighborhood resource, but is a 3 world-renowned resource. 4 And we wanted to take this moment 5 to thank Dr. Dodson for the extraordinary work 6 that he did by reading this resolution and 7 making some brief remarks that would extend 8 our tributes to him on a very personal level. 9 I just especially want to thank him 10 for those young men and women who found their 11 identity at the Schomburg and not at Rikers 12 Island. 13 Thank you so much. And I ask that 14 my colleagues join me in signing onto this 15 resolution. 16 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 17 Senator. 18 Any other Senators wishing to 19 speak? 20 The question is on the resolution. 21 All in favor signify by saying aye. 22 (Response of "Aye.") 23 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay. 24 (No response.) 25 THE PRESIDENT: The resolution is

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 adopted. 2 Senator Libous. 3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, 4 Mr. President. 5 I believe there is a privileged 6 resolution by Senator Sampson at the desk. 7 I'd ask that we would read it in its entirety 8 and move for its immediate adoption. But 9 before we adopt it, if you would call on 10 Senator Montgomery, please. 11 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary 12 will read the resolution in its entirety. 13 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 14 Sampson, Legislative Resolution Number 262, 15 memorializing Governor Andrew M. Cuomo to 16 proclaim February 2011 as Black History Month 17 in the State of New York. 18 "WHEREAS, Black History Month, 19 previously known as Negro History Week, was 20 founded by Dr. Carter G. Woodson and was first 21 celebrated on February 1, 1926. Since 1976, 22 it has become a nationally recognized 23 month-long celebration held each year during 24 the month of February to acknowledge and pay 25 tribute to African-Americans neglected by both

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 society and the history books; and 2 "WHEREAS, The month of February 3 observes the rich and diverse heritage of our 4 great state and nation; and 5 "WHEREAS, Black History Month seeks 6 to emphasize that black history is American 7 history; and 8 "WHEREAS, Black History Month is a 9 time to reflect on the struggles and victories 10 of African-Americans throughout the country's 11 history, and to recognize their numerous 12 valuable contributions to the protection of 13 our democratic society in war and in peace; 14 and 15 "WHEREAS, Some African-American 16 pioneers whose many accomplishments, all of 17 which took place during the month of February, 18 went unnoticed, as well as numerous symbolic 19 events in February that deserve to be 20 memorialized, include: John Sweat Rock, a 21 noted Boston lawyer who became the first 22 African-American admitted to argue before the 23 U.S. Supreme Court on February 1, 1865, and 24 the first African-American to be received on 25 the floor of the U.S. House of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Representatives; Jonathan Jasper Wright, the 2 first African-American to hold a major 3 judicial position, who was elected to the 4 South Carolina Supreme Court on February 1, 5 1870; President Abraham Lincoln submits the 6 proposed 13th Amendment to the U.S. 7 Constitution, abolishing slavery, to the 8 states for ratification on February 1, 1865; 9 civil rights protester Jimmie Lee Jackson dies 10 from wounds inflicted during a protest on 11 February 26, 1965, leading to the historic 12 Selma, Alabama civil rights demonstrations, 13 including 'Bloody Sunday,' in which 600 14 demonstrators, including Martin Luther King, 15 Jr. were attacked by police; Autherine J. Lucy 16 became the first African-American student to 17 attend the University of Alabama on February 18 3, 1956 -- she was expelled three days later 19 'for her own safety' in response to threats 20 from a mob; in 1992, Autherine Lucy Foster 21 graduated from the university with a master's 22 degree in education, the same day her 23 daughter, Grazia Foster, graduated with a 24 bachelor's degree in corporate finance; the 25 Negro Baseball League was founded on

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 February 3, 1920; Jack Johnson, the first 2 African-American World Heavyweight Boxing 3 Champion, won his first title on February 3, 4 1903; and Reginald F. Lewis, born on 5 December 7, 1942, in Baltimore, Maryland, 6 received his law degree from Harvard Law 7 School in 1968. He was a partner in Murphy, 8 Thorpes & Lewis, the first black law firm on 9 Wall Street, and in 1989 he became president 10 and CEO of TLC Beatrice International Food 11 Company, the largest black-owned business in 12 the United States; and 13 "WHEREAS, In recognition of the 14 vast contributions of African-Americans, a 15 joyful month-long celebration is held across 16 New York State and across the United States, 17 with many commemorative events to honor and 18 display the cultural heritage of 19 African-Americans; and 20 "WHEREAS, This Legislative Body 21 commends the African-American community for 22 preserving for future generations its 23 centuries-old traditions that benefit us all 24 and add to the color and beauty of the 25 tapestry which is our American society; now,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 therefore, be it 2 "RESOLVED, That this Legislative 3 Body pause in its deliberations to memorialize 4 Governor Andrew M. Cuomo to proclaim 5 February 2011 as Black History Month in the 6 State of New York; and be it further 7 "RESOLVED, That copies of this 8 resolution, suitably engrossed, be transmitted 9 to the Honorable Andrew M. Cuomo, Governor of 10 the State of New York, and to the events 11 commemorating Black History Month throughout 12 New York State." 13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator 14 Montgomery. 15 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you, 16 Mr. President. 17 I rise to speak on this resolution 18 honoring and commemorating February as 19 African-American, Black History Month for the 20 year 2011. 21 Thank you for reading it in its 22 entirety. It is simply a formality, because 23 we have been celebrating this annually for 24 some time -- many decades, in fact -- here in 25 New York State. But we are always reminded

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 that it is important to note the contributions 2 of people, Americans of all classes, all 3 communities, all groups. It's just important 4 that we make note of the contributions as we 5 deliberate in this chamber. 6 And so today we note the 7 contributions to America of the group of 8 people that I call the African Diaspora in 9 America. And even as part of that 10 celebration, we must also commemorate and 11 remember and remind ourselves that it took 12 several amendments to our Constitution, it 13 took Supreme Court cases that said people of 14 African descent had a right, as American 15 citizens, to be heard in court and to have 16 rights as other Americans. It's taken 17 legislation, as we know. 18 So it's taken a long time to get us 19 to this point. And let us never forget all of 20 the major, major contributions in science, in 21 medicine, in the arts and every other category 22 of life where members of the African Diaspora 23 have been extremely instrumental in building 24 America on every possible front. 25 So I'm happy to be able to stand

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 here. There are not many other places where a 2 person like me in the world would be able to 3 stand in a chamber like this and speak on 4 behalf of my people. So I'm very happy and 5 honored about that. And I'm also honored that 6 you in the chamber have agreed that we need to 7 take this moment and ask the Governor to 8 designate this month as Black History Month in 9 the State of New York. 10 Thank you, Mr. President. 11 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 12 Senator. 13 Any other Senators wishing to 14 speak? 15 (No response.) 16 THE PRESIDENT: The question is 17 on the resolution. All in favor signify by 18 saying aye. 19 (Response of "Aye.") 20 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay. 21 (No response.) 22 THE PRESIDENT: The resolution is 23 adopted. 24 Senator Libous. 25 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Mr. President. 2 There will be an immediate meeting 3 of the Finance Committee, followed by an 4 immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in 5 Room 332. 6 So for the time being, the Senate 7 will stand at ease. 8 THE PRESIDENT: There is an 9 immediate meeting of the Finance Committee, 10 followed by a meeting of the Rules Committee, 11 in Room 332. 12 And the Senate will stand at ease. 13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, 14 before we stand at ease, I would also, on 15 behalf of Senator Sampson, say that the 16 resolution is open to all of the members. If 17 anyone wishes not to be on it, they should let 18 the desk know. Otherwise, all members will be 19 on the resolution. 20 Thank you, Mr. President. 21 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, 22 Senator. 23 The Senate stands at ease. 24 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 25 ease at 3:35 p.m.)

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened 2 at 4:31 p.m.) 3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: The 5 Senate will come to order. 6 Senator Libous. 7 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Madam 8 President. 9 Can we return to the reports of 10 standing committees and have the report of the 11 Rules Committee, please. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Reports 13 of standing committees. 14 The Secretary will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Skelos, 16 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 17 following bills: 18 Senate Print 2706, by Senator 19 Skelos, an act to amend the General Municipal 20 Law and others; 21 And Senate Print 2707, by Senator 22 Saland, an act to amend the General Municipal 23 Law and the Education Law. 24 Both bills ordered direct to third 25 reading.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Also, Senator Skelos reports Senate 2 Resolution Number 338, "RESOLVED, That the 3 Rules of the Senate for the years 2011-2012 4 are hereby adopted." 5 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 6 Libous. 7 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President, 8 I move to accept the report of the Rules 9 Committee. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: All in 11 favor of accepting the report of the Rules 12 Committee signify by saying aye. 13 (Response of "Aye.") 14 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Opposed, 15 nay. 16 (Response of "Nay.") 17 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: The 18 report is accepted. 19 Senator Libous. 20 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you. 21 Madam President, if we could now go 22 to the noncontroversial reading of the 23 calendar, the supplemental calendar, please. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: The 25 Secretary will read.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 39, by Senator Skelos, Senate Print 2706, an 3 act to amend the General Municipal Law, the 4 Education Law, and the Municipal Home Rule 5 Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Read the 7 last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 26. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 14 Skelos. 15 SENATOR SKELOS: Thank you, 16 Madam President. 17 I'm going to just quickly explain 18 my vote and then indicate to the membership 19 that cosponsorship of this legislation will be 20 open for anybody who wishes to notify the desk 21 appropriately. 22 This is Governor Cuomo's Program 23 Bill Number 1, which indicates both the 24 Senate's desire and we have passed on a number 25 of occasions, going back to 2008, where we've

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 passed a property tax cap proposal. 2 What this legislation does is for 3 school districts it will establish a real 4 property tax levy cap of 2 percent, or the 5 CPI, whichever is less. The Big Five school 6 districts would be excluded. The Big Four 7 school districts would be included through the 8 local government property tax cap. 9 When it comes to school districts, 10 the only exception for a tax levy above the 11 2 percent, or CPI, are funds needed to support 12 voter approval of capital expenditures and an 13 override of the cap. 14 A school district would be required 15 to submit a tax levy proposition for approval 16 by voters at district annual meetings on the 17 third Tuesday in May. If the proposed tax 18 levy is within the tax levy limit, then a 19 majority would be required for approval. The 20 override provision would require a 60 percent 21 approval by the voters. On a second 22 submission, if it is voted down or less than 23 60 percent, if it is defeated a second time, 24 then the levy would have to be that of the 25 prior year.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 In terms of local governments, the 2 2 percent or the CPI apply. To override, it 3 would require a two-thirds vote of the 4 governing body or, in the case of a district, 5 a fire district, a resolution. 6 There are certain exceptions for 7 local governments. One would be large 8 judgements in excess of 10 percent of the 9 prior year levy. Two, levy increases 10 resulting from municipal government 11 consolidation. Three, voter-approved capital 12 expenditures. And the fourth would be county 13 costs for the Temporary Assistance for Needy 14 Families -- TANF -- direct cash assistance and 15 safety net assistance programs. 16 This legislation, which will 17 hopefully pass the Senate today, will send a 18 message that we are going to control property 19 taxes in this state so that people can afford 20 to be here, that we can create jobs. 21 We are also, as we go through this 22 budget process, as we've indicated on a number 23 of times the clear message from the voters of 24 this state is government at all levels -- and 25 that includes the State of New York -- has to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 cut spending, they can't raise taxes, they 2 want us focused on private-sector job 3 creation, and they want local real property 4 taxes stabilized. 5 So I thank you for the opportunity 6 to explain my vote. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 8 you, Senator Skelos. You will be recorded in 9 the affirmative. 10 Senator Breslin. 11 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you very 12 much, Madam President. 13 I rise to support this legislation. 14 I was happy last year when I was able to be 15 part of a majority that voted on a tax cap 16 twice. 17 Homeowners have said enough is 18 enough. Governor Cuomo has led the charge. 19 Our local taxes are 78 percent above the 20 national average. We have counties that are 21 leaders -- not leaders in jobs, but leaders in 22 having some of the highest property taxes in 23 this nation. 24 So it's time to place a cap, a tax 25 cap on property. And it's time, as the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Governor said, he will bring forth mandate 2 relief, which will be coupled by this 3 legislation. 4 And I am happy to rise and support 5 the tax cap in New York State. 6 Thank you, Madam President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 8 you, Senator Breslin. You will be recorded in 9 the affirmative. 10 Senator Krueger. 11 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 12 Madam President. To explain my vote. 13 I have to respectfully disagree 14 with my colleagues who have spoken already 15 from both sides of the aisle. Yes, we have a 16 property tax issue in various parts of the 17 state. But I consistently have pointed out a 18 tax cap is not necessarily the right way to go 19 in solving the problem. 20 Again, property tax caps don't 21 reduce anyone's property tax. They don't 22 factor in the inequity and regressiveness of 23 the property tax system by not addressing that 24 someone might be low in income but house-rich 25 on some scale. And this will do nothing solve

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 that problem; in fact, it will probably 2 exacerbate the problem. 3 What we also know is the devil is 4 in the details. And depending on the math of 5 your school district, you might find yourself 6 through this property tax cap, particularly 7 poor school districts, with almost no money to 8 meet your school obligations and realistically 9 no way to have a 60 percent vote. 10 In a state such as New York, which 11 still suffers from inequities in the 12 distribution of education funds and 13 educational outcomes, what the research shows 14 is that a property tax cap will freeze and 15 exacerbate the problems we already see from 16 poor districts to wealthy districts. 17 I do believe this Legislature 18 should be working with the Governor to solve 19 the problem of inequitable distribution of 20 education money and a regressive property tax 21 model. But I don't believe, if this becomes 22 law, we will find ourselves a year or two down 23 the line believing this got us to the solution 24 to our problems. I vote no. 25 Thank you, Madam President.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 2 you, Senator Krueger. You will be recorded in 3 the negative. 4 Senator Carlucci. 5 SENATOR CARLUCCI: Thank you, 6 Madam President. 7 Over the past year I've had the 8 good fortune of speaking to thousands of 9 residents throughout the Hudson Valley. And 10 unfortunately, I've heard the same thing over 11 and over again, whether it's a young family 12 that recently lost a job and is worrying about 13 how they're going to pay their property tax 14 bill or a senior citizen that's been squeezed 15 out of the community which they've lived in 16 for decades because of spiralling, 17 out-of-control property taxes. 18 This is a step in the right 19 direction to get a handle on property taxes 20 and stop treating property owners like a 21 limitless ATM machine. So I look forward to 22 voting in the affirmative for this bill. 23 Through you, Madam President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 25 you, Senator Carlucci. You will be recorded

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 in the affirmative. 2 Senator Oppenheimer. 3 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Well, it 4 looks like those outside of New York City have 5 a very similar problem. 6 And I'm voting in favor of this 7 because we need to do something. As many of 8 you know, Westchester has the highest property 9 tax, the county has the highest property tax 10 in America. And to say that we are 11 overburdened and it's now confiscatory is sort 12 an understatement. 13 I have been saying that we really 14 have to do more. Capping just says that it's 15 going to go up each year by 2 percent or 16 whatever. And what I've been saying is we 17 have to really study what the costs are. We 18 have to lower the property tax. And we can 19 only do that if we study closely what are the 20 costs that are driving up the property tax. 21 And that I think we must do, but we 22 also must listen at the same time. And I'm 23 sure many others have heard this: The schools 24 and the municipal governments are crying out 25 for mandate relief. Because there's no way

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 they can live with the 2 percent increase if 2 they don't have some support from us giving 3 them the mandate relief that will, as I said 4 earlier, cut their costs. 5 So that is, I think, something that 6 we must focus on in the coming year. This is 7 a one-house bill. Clearly it will have to be 8 negotiated. And I hope as a piece of that 9 negotiation we will be able to discuss those 10 costs that drive the property tax. 11 I'll be voting yes. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 13 you, Senator Oppenheimer. You will be 14 recorded as a yes. 15 Next is Senator Peralta. 16 SENATOR PERALTA: Thank you, 17 Madam Speaker. 18 I am explaining my vote voting in 19 the negative because we are here today voting 20 on a lengthy, complex piece of legislation 21 after being given the least amount of time 22 possible to review it and consider its impact. 23 My question is simple. Why? With 24 a $10 billion budget gap to fill, why the 25 emphasis on tax cap and tax cuts before even

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 the first dime of savings has been identified? 2 A New York Times editorial last month 3 headlined "The Tax Cap Illusion" noted that 4 "History shows, painfully, that caps can do 5 more harm than good. California's Proposition 6 13 led to the deterioration of universities, 7 schools, and other public facilities." 8 The same editorial pointed out that 9 Massachusetts imposed a cap in 1980 and soon 10 police officers and firefighters were laid off 11 and senior centers were closed. By 1991, the 12 State Board of Education warned of a crisis 13 with too many classrooms simply warehousing 14 students. 15 As has been pointed out time and 16 time again by groups advocating for lower 17 property taxes, this tax cap will not solve 18 the problem of high property taxes or make 19 property taxes any more affordable. And it 20 certainly will not lower anyone's property tax 21 bill. 22 So again, the question is why? Why 23 on the eve of the release of the Executive 24 Budget are we being asked to take this vote? 25 We're putting the cart before the horse.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Whatever the answer may be, my 2 point is this. The point is, as Democrats we 3 must ensure that the budget is not balanced on 4 the backs of middle- and working-class 5 families and schoolchildren. There must be 6 shared sacrifices. And I say why not wait 7 until the Executive Budget comes out before we 8 take this vote. 9 I vote in the negative. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 11 you, Senator. You will be recorded as a no. 12 Senator Klein. 13 SENATOR KLEIN: Thank you, Madam 14 President. 15 I want to commend the Majority for 16 bringing this bill forward. I think if you 17 look at the history, one of the few things 18 that the Democrats and the Republicans agree 19 with is a property tax cap. In my time in the 20 State Senate I believe we've passed a property 21 tax cap, or a version of one, four times. 22 This is I think is a very, very 23 important step towards finally reducing 24 property taxes in the State of New York. One 25 of the things that I think is very clear is if

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 we're asking the citizens of our state each 2 and every day to balance their checkbook, live 3 within their means, tighten their belts, I 4 don't think it's too much to ask local school 5 districts as well as local governments to do 6 the same. 7 I'm not saying that our local 8 school districts are squandering money, or our 9 local governments. But let face facts. If 10 you're not required to live within a budget, 11 you just won't. And I see what happens in my 12 local school districts where, instead of 13 cutting costs, moving things in the opposite 14 direction, saving the taxpayers money, they 15 kind of figure out what budget will be 16 acceptable. Will a 3 percent increase do it 17 this year? Will a 4 percent, would a 18 5 percent? Well, that's really not the way to 19 do business in these tough economic times. 20 I know Majority Leader Skelos 21 alluded to the fact of sort of the ripple 22 effects of high property taxes, which are 23 quite true. One of the reasons why we can't 24 attract jobs through corporations in New York 25 State is because young families who would

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 maybe locate to New York or take those jobs or 2 remain in New York to keep those jobs can't 3 afford to live in the suburbs or anyplace 4 outside of the cities because of high property 5 taxes. 6 So I think this is a very, very 7 important first step. And I do believe the 8 first way we reduce property taxes is by 9 implementing a cap. But I don't think we can 10 operate in a vacuum. I've said this many 11 times on this floor, that I think it's sort of 12 a three-pronged approach, the first and most 13 important being the cap. Next is mandate 14 relief, which I know we're taking up a 15 resolution today on. And I think I would like 16 to see the return of some type of property tax 17 relief -- maybe a check, maybe a 18 circuit-breaker, which I know many in this 19 house have advocated for. But before we do 20 that, we have to make sure we have a definite, 21 finite funding stream to be able to accomplish 22 that. 23 So I'm very happy that so quickly 24 within this new legislative session we're 25 passing the property tax cap. Madam

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 President, I vote yes. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 3 you, Senator Klein. You will be recorded in 4 the affirmative. 5 Next we have Senator Robach. 6 SENATOR ROBACH: Yes, Madam 7 President. I too am happy too support this 8 bill. I think this is needed. 9 And I would concur with Senator 10 Carlucci. Everywhere I went for the last two 11 years, whether it was a community meeting, 12 walking with PAC-TAC groups to keep a 13 neighborhood safe, whether it was at a school, 14 even at the grocery store, people talked about 15 property taxes more than anything else on 16 their plate. They wanted -- and let me 17 explain to my colleagues in New York City, we 18 do not have hundreds of thousands of people 19 moving into our districts. People are voting 20 with their feet and are saying it's because of 21 high property tax. 22 You can actually afford a very nice 23 home, but then the taxes on it are so 24 outstanding it's not -- I have some 25 constituents that live on the shoreline of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Lake Ontario, very nice homes, that pay 2 $24,000 a year in taxes. That's $2,000 a 3 month -- without paying a mortgage, turning on 4 a light, cutting the lawn, nothing. It's a 5 lot. 6 And why we need a cap, when people 7 say you don't understand the time -- I don't 8 think it's okay to have 7, 8, 9, 10 percent 9 increases. People can't afford it. And 10 that's what they've been getting in many 11 places. And we need to change that. So we're 12 doing this. 13 And the other reason why I'm so 14 happy to support this legislation is many 15 people talked about this during the election, 16 and a lot of people talked about it for the 17 last four years but it didn't come to 18 fruition. So, number one, we're delivering on 19 a pledge that many people made as they were 20 running for reelection. And I think that's 21 important, especially at this time for 22 New Yorkers, because people lost faith that 23 we're going to put action behind our words. 24 Now we are. 25 Secondly, I'm more optimistic than

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ever that with our new governor, Governor 2 Cuomo, who has said he supports a property tax 3 cap, that he may for the first time be able to 4 put enough pressure, along with the voters of 5 New York, on the Assembly to really get this 6 passed and make it a law. 7 So I think this is an important 8 bill, a needed bill, and a very important move 9 sending a clear message to the people of this 10 state, especially in Rochester and upstate 11 New York, that we hear them and we're acting 12 accordingly. 13 I vote in the affirmative. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 15 you, Senator Robach. You will be recorded 16 yes. 17 Senator Flanagan. 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you, 19 Madam President. To explain my vote. 20 The bill that we got today has a 21 little symbolism right on it. It says 22 "Governor's Program Bill Number 1." So I'm 23 going to take that as an indication of the 24 seriousness that our new Governor attaches to 25 this issue, and frankly I think we all should.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Property taxes are just simply too high. The 2 Governor recognizes it, we all recognize it, 3 there's been a lot of talk about it. But we 4 haven't crossed the finish line. 5 Now, it doesn't matter what part of 6 the state you're from, they're still too high. 7 I look up in the balcony, and I actually have 8 constituents from my district here today, 9 three young kids in the schools. Their 10 property taxes are too high. It's getting 11 that much more difficult to live in all of our 12 communities across the State of New York. 13 But here's where I think, when 14 we're going to get criticized, we can stand on 15 firm ground. Because last week Senator 16 Ranzenhofer introduced a bill to institute a 17 state spending cap. We're not asking people 18 to do something that we're not willing to 19 impose upon ourselves. For far too long 20 Albany has told people how to do things but 21 has not been willing to do the same thing. 22 So we cannot have a one-dimensional 23 approach, as Senator Klein said. We need a 24 state spending cap. We need a property tax 25 cap. We need true, legitimate mandate relief.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 We need massive regulatory reform. We need 2 real economic development. A thousand times, 3 Senator Skelos: "Taxes, jobs, spending. 4 Taxes, jobs, spending." 5 We have to do a lot more. This is 6 a very important first step. And I 7 congratulate Governor Cuomo and Senator Skelos 8 for bringing this bill to the floor. Thank 9 you. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 11 you, Senator Flanagan. You will be recorded 12 as a yes. 13 Next, Senator Kennedy. 14 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you very 15 much, Madam President. 16 I stand here today as a cosponsor 17 of this legislation in support of serious 18 property tax reform, serious property tax 19 relief, for working families, for middle-class 20 New Yorkers. This is not just a Western 21 New York problem, this is a New York State 22 problem. This is an Albany problem. 23 And whether we are from Western 24 New York, in Erie County -- Erie County, one 25 of the top 10 highest-property-taxed counties

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 not only just in New York State but in the 2 entire nation. Eight out of the top 10 3 highest-property-taxed counties in the entire 4 nation per percentage of home value are in 5 upstate New York. 6 We have a property tax epidemic, 7 not just a problem. And the only way we're 8 going to solve this problem is by enacting 9 legislation that provides serious relief and 10 serious solutions. 11 People have been voting with their 12 feet. In Western New York, in Erie County, 13 100,000 people have left Erie County since 14 1980: 100,000 people. As the Governor had 15 articulated in his State of the State, 16 2 million individuals have left in the last 17 couple of decades. 18 We need serious property tax 19 relief, and it starts today. So I'm proud to 20 stand in support of this property tax cap. I 21 look forward to furthering the agenda that 22 provides relief for middle-class and working 23 families across New York State. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 25 you, Senator Kennedy. You will be recorded in

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 the affirmative. 2 Senator Valesky. 3 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you, 4 Madam President. 5 I rise in support of this 6 legislation. My constituents, and I'm sure 7 all of our constituents across the state, time 8 and time again have complained about the 9 property tax burden and the fact that we have 10 to do something about high property taxes here 11 in New York State. 12 Today, once again, in the Senate in 13 a bipartisan fashion we're doing something 14 about property taxes, one step in an overall 15 comprehensive approach. I want to thank 16 Senator Klein, who's spent a great deal of his 17 time over the last couple of years in 18 fashioning a proposal. I want to thank 19 Senator Skelos for making this one of the 20 first bills that we consider here in the new 21 2011 legislative session. 22 I want to thank Governor Cuomo. As 23 Senator Flanagan indicated, this is Governor's 24 Program Bill Number 1. The Governor believes 25 this is such a high priority that he would

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 send the legislation to the Legislature even 2 before his Executive Budget proposal, 3 underscoring how important this is. 4 But in the final analysis, we can 5 continue here in the Senate year after year 6 after year passing property tax caps, but I 7 hope, Madam President, that this is the 8 year -- finally, this is the year that I and 9 the 19.5 million New Yorkers can finally thank 10 the Assembly for doing the right thing and 11 passing a property tax cap, Governor Cuomo 12 signing that into law as soon as possible. 13 I vote in the affirmative. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 15 you, Senator Valesky. You will be recorded as 16 a yes. 17 Senator Martins. 18 SENATOR MARTINS: Good afternoon, 19 Madam President. I also rise in support of 20 this bill. 21 You know, I am reassured that we 22 have the support of our colleagues on both 23 sides of the aisle on this issue that is so 24 important to all of our constituents back 25 home. We've all gone through a rather

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 lengthy -- and some of us more so than 2 others -- process getting here these last few 3 months. And as you can see, and as we've 4 heard from others here in the chamber, time 5 and again people have told us: If you do one 6 thing when you get to Albany, lower my taxes. 7 Do something about taxes, but we simply can no 8 longer afford to pay any more. 9 This is the first step in that 10 road. This is the first step in our 11 commitment to our constituents where we send a 12 real message not only that we're committed to 13 a spending cap, as we approved this past week, 14 but also committed to structural change and 15 real structural change up and down, not only 16 affecting local governments but also affecting 17 ourselves. 18 You know, as we have this 19 opportunity, let's not forget also that this 20 is also a first step. We had an opportunity 21 today and we will have an opportunity today to 22 vote on a tax cap. But it goes hand in glove 23 also with the need for mandate relief. This 24 is only a first step. And I would remind 25 everyone to please keep that in mind as we

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 think about the necessary structural reforms 2 that we need for local governments and those 3 price-drivers that affect our ability on a 4 local level to continue to provide services, 5 not only for our villages and towns and 6 counties but also certainly for our school 7 districts. 8 So let's take this as an 9 opportunity not only to send a message and to 10 set a line in the sand, but also together to 11 work towards those necessary mandate reliefs 12 that our local communities so desperately 13 need, so that they can continue to provide 14 basic services to our constituents. 15 I vote in the affirmative. Thank 16 you. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 18 you, Senator Martins. You will be recorded as 19 a yes. 20 Senator Alesi. 21 SENATOR ALESI: Thank you, Madam 22 President and my colleagues. 23 As the day progresses, it seems as 24 though many of us, if not all of us, 25 unfortunately, should be saying the same

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 thing. And that is that this bill is good for 2 all of New York. 3 For far too long we've heard from 4 people upstate and downstate and all across 5 the state, from people in the business 6 community, people in labor, that property 7 taxes are really at the root of what's killing 8 our economy in New York State and, more 9 important, what is diminishing the quality of 10 life that we should be enjoying. 11 By capping property taxes and 12 following the leadership of Governor Cuomo, 13 who has made this his first program bill, with 14 the leadership of Senator Skelos and the 15 leadership of the previous leadership, we 16 focused on property tax caps for the last 17 couple of years. But now we have what I think 18 is not only the support of the executive, the 19 will of the people, but the hope that this 20 will find its way into the other chambers and 21 become reality. So that those young people 22 who want to build their families here, those 23 small businesses that want to stay here and 24 thrive, for our seniors that want to stay in 25 their homes, it will all be possible.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Many more things could be done as 2 far as tax caps or tax cuts in this state, 3 whether for individuals, retirees, businesses. 4 But you have to start that long journey with 5 this one large step -- not small step, this is 6 a large step. 7 In order for our economy to thrive, 8 in order for quality of life to improve, a tax 9 cap is reality if it's passed and signed. But 10 it's also a strong and powerful message that 11 New York State really is the place to live, to 12 grow a business, to grow a family. 13 When you look at all of the quality 14 educational facilities that we have, private 15 and public, in this state, we're educating the 16 best and the brightest that will go all across 17 this country -- in fact, all across the 18 world -- to pursue their professions, to 19 pursue their calling, how many of them do we 20 lose simply because they know that buying a 21 home here will cost them too much in taxes? 22 Now we can continue to invest in 23 those educational facilities, we can continue 24 to invest in our small and large businesses, 25 and we can continue to say to those people

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 that want to buy a home or stay in a home, you 2 can have it now, you can have it affordably, 3 and you can enjoy your life because we do have 4 this first key component in returning New York 5 State to the Empire State. 6 Thank you, Madam President and my 7 colleagues. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 9 you, Senator Alesi. You will be recorded as a 10 yes. 11 Senator Fuschillo. 12 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you, 13 Madam President. I'll be voting in the 14 affirmative on this legislation. 15 New York State has the unfortunate 16 distinction of being number one in interstate 17 migration. That means more people move out of 18 our state than any other state in the nation. 19 If this legislative body does nothing with 20 respect to property taxes, then they fail the 21 people of the State of New York. 22 There is nowhere that I go -- and 23 we've heard the same song and comments from 24 colleagues in this house, that every step they 25 take, somebody talks about property tax

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 relief. 2 But what's significant about 3 today's initiative and today's bill is that 4 we're changing the direction of this state. 5 We saw in the last couple of years reckless 6 spending, reckless increases in taxes and 7 fees, and a state that has drastically gone in 8 the wrong direction. Governor Cuomo and 9 Senator Skelos, by putting this bill in today, 10 is pulling it back. We're saying we want to 11 cap spending on the state level, we want 12 two-thirds of this house if you're going to 13 raise properties or any taxes, and we want to 14 provide tax credits to small businesses. 15 And now property tax relief. It's 16 the single most important issue in the State 17 of New York, and I'll be voting in the 18 affirmative. 19 Thank you, Madam President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 21 you, Senator Fuschillo. You will be recorded 22 in the affirmative. 23 Senator Saland. 24 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Madam 25 President.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Madam President, I too rise in 2 support of this bill. Unfortunately, as our 3 business community has suffered, about the 4 only thing we've been exporting, if not 5 hemorrhaging, has been people and jobs. And 6 one of the principal reasons -- certainly 7 there are several -- but one of the principal 8 reasons has been the onerous burden of our 9 excessively high taxation, and particularly 10 painful and heinous within the ranks of those 11 taxes has been the property tax. 12 There can be no forum that I attend 13 in my district in which that subject does not 14 come up. It comes up when I speak with 15 seniors, it comes up when I speak with the 16 business community, it comes up when I speak 17 with my neighbors. 18 This tax cap has been something 19 that we have endeavored to accomplish over the 20 course of a number of prior sessions. But 21 never before have we had the good fortune of 22 having a Governor who has not only made this 23 Program Bill 1, working closely with Senator 24 Skelos, but he has asserted himself, he has 25 put himself on the line, he has aggressively

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 pursued this tax cap. I am optimistic that 2 before this session is over we will have a tax 3 cap. 4 And if you think of the things that 5 we need to revitalize our economy, if you 6 think of the things that we need to encourage 7 people to stay and others to come, dealing 8 with the property tax issue is at the top of 9 the list. There are things that we've done 10 previously that are critically important that 11 send that same message, whether it's the 12 spending cap, whether it's the package that we 13 did to incentivize the creation of 14 private-sector jobs, or whether it was the 15 supermajority required for increasing taxes. 16 This is a concerted and a 17 comprehensive effort to get out there that we 18 want New York open for business, that we want 19 to be the Empire State and we want people in 20 our respective districts to know that relief 21 is on the way. 22 Again, Madam Speaker, I vote in the 23 affirmative. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 25 you, Senator Saland. You will be recorded in

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 the affirmative. 2 Senator Ranzenhofer. 3 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Thank you, 4 Madam President. 5 I also rise today in support of the 6 property tax cap, and I want to thank the 7 Governor for making it his number-one bill 8 that he's introduced, and also thank Senator 9 Skelos for his leadership. 10 I hope when people hear what we did 11 today they finally say to themselves, Well, 12 the Legislature finally gets it. We have 13 members on both sides of the aisle -- 14 Democrats, Republicans, upstate, downstate -- 15 really saying the same thing, that where else 16 are we going, how many more people do we have 17 to lose, how many more jobs do we have to 18 lose. And I think this sends an important 19 message that we are moving in the right 20 direction. 21 I'm sure for many of you this is a 22 very personal type of vote. Because if you're 23 like my family, many of your family members 24 have already left the state. I have no family 25 members left in the state other than my wife.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 And, you know, it used to be when 2 you were in your neighborhood and you'd be 3 walking through the neighborhood, every once 4 in a while someone was moving out of state. 5 Well, now it's somebody in every single house 6 that has members of their family having left 7 the State of New York for states where they're 8 paying less property taxes. Nothing is 9 forcing them to stay here; they have an option 10 of whether they want to pay $12,000 in New 11 York or $4,000 in another state. 12 And this is a step in the right 13 direction that says we're not going to be 14 number one in highest property taxes anymore, 15 we're going to take a concerted effort to cap 16 our spending, to cap our taxes and to get this 17 state moving again. 18 So, Madam President, please record 19 me in the affirmative. I'm very, very proud 20 to be voting for this today. Thank you. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 22 you, Senator Ranzenhofer. You will be 23 recorded in the affirmative. 24 Senator Zeldin. 25 SENATOR ZELDIN: Thank you, Madam

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 President. I rise in the affirmative today on 2 this tax cap legislation. Our action 3 demonstrates that this body is serious about 4 property tax relief. 5 I was sent here by the residents of 6 the Third Senate District, those residents in 7 the towns of Islip and Brookhaven. As I 8 knocked on the 12,000 doors during this past 9 campaign season, I had a chance to talk to 10 many lower-income, middle-income families 11 struggling to survive right now on Long 12 Island. I spoke to many seniors trapped in 13 their house on fixed incomes but, because they 14 were living in just a regular three-bedroom, 15 two-bath house, yet still having to pay 16 $15,000, $18,000, $20,000 a year in property 17 taxes. They have sent me here to represent 18 them. 19 Now, I'm not here, my purpose isn't 20 to block progress. And this is, as Senator 21 Martins mentioned, but one step, one first 22 step towards property tax relief for the 23 residents of Islip, Brookhaven, throughout 24 Long Island and across New York State. But I 25 am proud that when I leave here today I'm able

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 to go back to them and tell them that today, 2 on this day in the New York State Senate, I 3 did what I could to fight for them and to 4 provide that property tax relief that was 5 promised to them as I left their doors and 6 asked them for their vote. 7 I ask that when we leave here after 8 passing this property tax cap, that we 9 continue the dialogue about mandate relief, 10 about how to continue to provide an even 11 better education for our kids, more of a 12 quality education for our students. 13 My daughters, who are 4, are about 14 to start kindergarten in public school this 15 year, and I want them to have the best 16 education. And when they get older and they 17 are ready to start their families, if they 18 want to start their families on Long Island, 19 they should be able to. If they want to be 20 able to start their families here in New York, 21 they should be able to. 22 But for all of those family members 23 that have left from my family, Senator 24 Ranzenhofer, as in yours, they have relocated 25 down in Florida because they can't afford to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 stay here in New York. 2 So this is our opportunity. And I 3 will not block progress, and I'll continue to 4 fight for fight for further progress when this 5 vote is done. And tomorrow is another day and 6 dialogue continues. 7 Please record my vote in the 8 affirmative. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 10 you, Senator Zeldin. You will be recorded as 11 a yes. 12 Senator Espaillat. 13 SENATOR ESPAILLAT: Thank you, 14 Madam President. 15 There are no easy solutions to many 16 of the problems that are facing New Yorkers. 17 Thousands of homeowners are seeking to get 18 property tax relief. Over a million tenants 19 will be seeking to get some kind of help this 20 year. And yet tomorrow we will listen to the 21 Governor propose his budget. In it I am sure 22 he will propose deep cuts that will help gap 23 the $12 billion deficit affecting this state. 24 It is perhaps expedient to take 25 this property tax vote today, but I find it to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 be a great mistake not to wait and listen to 2 the budget cuts that are going to be proposed 3 tomorrow. Many of those budget cuts will be 4 in the area of education. Many of the 5 localities that may benefit from this tax 6 relief would also face deep cuts in their 7 education funding. And families vote with 8 their feet not only because of property tax 9 relief, but they also vote with their feet 10 when there is crappy schools or when there is 11 a lack of public safety. 12 When many people purchase their 13 homes for the first time, as a young family, 14 they look at property taxes, they look at the 15 quality of education provided by the locality, 16 they look at the public safety in the 17 neighborhood. And these things are integrally 18 connected. And not to be able to wait for 19 tomorrow's proposal by the Governor is perhaps 20 a little bit too expedient, if not politically 21 expedient. 22 And I will be voting in the 23 negative on this. I think that some of those 24 localities will be coming back to us because 25 they're going to be strapped for cash.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 They're going to get cut in education, they're 2 going to get cut in healthcare, and they're 3 going to be capped in their property tax, a 4 means of revenue for those localities. They 5 will come to these chambers asking for relief. 6 This vote is premature. I am 7 completely convinced that we need to bring 8 property tax relief to the State of New York, 9 but today is not the time. We should wait for 10 the Governor's proposal tomorrow, debate it 11 extensively, see what kinds of cuts he's 12 proposing to education in Long Island, in some 13 of the other counties that will otherwise 14 benefit -- Nassau -- tremendously from this 15 property tax cap. 16 Madam President, I will be voting 17 in the negative. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 19 you, Senator Espaillat. You will be recorded 20 as a no. 21 I do just want to take this 22 opportunity to remind the members that we have 23 a two-minute limit on explaining your vote. 24 Senator McDonald. 25 SENATOR McDONALD: Thank you,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Madam President. 2 I want to take this time to thank 3 our new governor, Governor Cuomo, Senator 4 Skelos, my colleagues from both sides of the 5 aisle. Property tax has been a problem for 6 working-class men and women for decades. If 7 anything, we should have done this years ago. 8 It's been mentioned about mandates. 9 That is a problem for our schools, our county 10 governments, our local governments. We cannot 11 just do a property tax cap without addressing 12 mandates. Legitimate mandates should be kept, 13 and ones that are impractical, in the wrong 14 place at the wrong time, should be gotten rid 15 of. We should be dealing with our local 16 officials, get the feedback from them. 17 The mandates, if not addressed, 18 won't help us at all, it will hurt us. But 19 what we did today, we started a dialogue on 20 capping property taxes. The comments that 21 came from the various communities that have 22 lost population -- many of them I know very 23 well, like Erie County. A great county. 24 Buffalo area, a great area. You feel so 25 sympathetic that these people are leaving our

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 state. 2 I represent two communities, one 3 very much like Erie County, an older 4 industrial community that I was actually 5 raised in. No reason that we keep on putting 6 burdens on them. They cannot continue to 7 carry the burden. They cannot tell people who 8 live in houses, who come from backgrounds, 9 blue-collar backgrounds, that we're going to 10 take your house. It's simply not fair. 11 My other community figured this out 12 a long time ago. Lower taxes, and people will 13 move there. Lower taxes, the schools get 14 better. Lower taxes, the roads, the emergency 15 services, economic development -- something 16 New York State used to be Number 1 in and now 17 is Number 50. 18 It's time we start figuring out 19 that people need jobs. If you don't come from 20 a background where jobs are important, nobody 21 cares. I come from a background where jobs 22 are important. People should realize that. 23 Jobs are important. 24 So this is part of a whole 25 continuation that our Governor, the Senate

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 leader, Dean Skelos, a variety of all of us 2 here have got to deal with. 3 So if you're talking to the public, 4 they're talking property taxes, income taxes. 5 In general, they're talking economics. Keep 6 people working, get people working, and start 7 bringing private sector business in. And the 8 private-sector business here, let it grow. 9 Let this state be what it's supposed to be, 10 the number one Empire State. 11 We have hurt this state, we have 12 hurt the people in it, and we've got to stop 13 doing that. Keep the working men and women in 14 our state and keep them working and let them 15 pay reasonable taxes for responsible services. 16 And I think we started it today, 17 and I'm very grateful. I am voting yes. 18 Thank you, Madam President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 20 you, Senator McDonald. You will be recorded 21 in the affirmative. 22 Senator Marcellino. 23 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you, 24 Madam President. 25 I rise in support of this

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 legislation. I think it's a very important 2 first step. I wish to thank, as many of my 3 colleagues have before me, the Governor and 4 Senator Skelos for bringing this bill to the 5 floor. 6 But I would remind us, and it's 7 been said before by others, that this is just 8 a first step. By freezing taxes at no more 9 than a 2 percent increase, we're not lowering 10 them, we're only hoping to slow down the 11 increase. 12 My constituents have sent me a loud 13 message. I've got email after email and a 14 stack of snail-mail letters that could be as 15 tall as the snowbanks back in my district, all 16 of them saying, You've got to cut my taxes, 17 Senator. We sent you back to Albany this year 18 to cut taxes, reduce spending, so that we can 19 attract some businesses, so we can keep our 20 young people in our state, so we can keep our 21 businesses in our state and bring new ones 22 here, so creating careers for our people. 23 We need to attract businesses. We 24 need to keep our residents here. We can't do 25 that by letting taxes increase. We can only

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 do that by decreasing taxes, by creating 2 private-sector jobs, and by cutting spending 3 at all levels of government. 4 This bill, as I said, is a good 5 first step, but it's just that. I look 6 forward to working in a bipartisan way with 7 all my colleagues so that we can move forward 8 and make life good for our constituents, make 9 life affordable for our constituents. And 10 this, as I said, is the beginning. 11 I proudly vote aye, Madam 12 President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 14 you, Senator Marcellino. You will be recorded 15 as a yes. 16 Senator Larkin. 17 SENATOR LARKIN: Thank you, Madam 18 President. 19 I've been around this chamber a few 20 days more than most people except for Johnson. 21 And, you know, it's a happy day. My office 22 just told me a few minutes ago that we have 20 23 emails that say "vote for this." And the 24 response we give to them: I'm a sponsor of 25 it.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 But what are we saying with this 2 vote? You know, I hear people say, "Well, why 3 don't we wait till tomorrow when the Governor 4 gives us his budget." Well, the Governor 5 didn't wait. The Governor handed down his 6 number-one bill on Friday and said to 7 Senator Skelos, "I need this passed." 8 So we're here today to pass this 9 bill so that when he talks about his budget 10 tomorrow, he can say we have achieved the 11 number-one priority that I have set for this 12 budget and for this state. And he'll commend 13 all of us who did stand up and vote for it. 14 I have 17 grandchildren, young men, 15 you know. And what do they say to me? "Why 16 should I stay here?" Gramp, you had a home in 17 North Carolina, you paid $923 a year for total 18 taxes. I don't remember what we lost there. 19 But their attitude was, that's a nice place to 20 live, I can afford it. 21 Maybe it's tightening our belts. 22 We heard the Secretary of Defense, somebody 23 commented on him last week where he said 24 "You've got to do this and you've got to do 25 that" to the military. What's the difference

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 in saying it to someone else? 2 When you start to think that what 3 we've done is said in a cooperative manner, 4 bipartisan manner, we're going to stand up 5 here and work together so that we can make it, 6 as Senator Zeldin just said, the number-one 7 state again. You know our Governor has made 8 it very clear he wants our cooperation -- not 9 just Republicans, but bipartisan, Republicans 10 and Democrats -- to show the business 11 community across this state that we want to 12 cooperate. We are working to get it. 13 My district lost a thousand jobs on 14 a contract by Macy's because of taxes, the 15 payroll tax that supports New York City, 16 because the first shovel in the ground would 17 have cost Macy's $34 million. 18 What we're saying here, we want 19 business to come and stay. More importantly, 20 we want our children to have a job here. And 21 if you don't vote for this bill, when your 22 children leave, tell them you're sorry. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 24 you, Senator Larkin. You will be recorded in 25 the affirmative.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Senator LaValle. 2 SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you, 3 Madam President. 4 I too rise to support this 5 legislation. I have long been an advocate for 6 a tax cap. And as has been mentioned, this 7 chamber has passed a tax cap multiple times. 8 For those who say that we are moving 9 precipitously, I say the time has long come 10 that we do this measure. 11 I've been listening to individuals 12 here, and I thought about the process that we 13 have followed to try and support our education 14 system and our local governments. We've done 15 it by increasing state aid to record numbers, 16 thinking that that would lower taxes. In most 17 of the districts it has not. 18 We passed the STAR program thinking 19 it would lower taxes, and it did not because 20 it ended up being a supplement state aid 21 program. 22 We passed same-day budget vote 23 believing that more people would be involved 24 in the process and that involvement would 25 bring down taxes. It has not.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 We have passed legislation to limit 2 the number of budget votes to two times. It 3 has not lowered property taxes. 4 We changed the contingency budget 5 law to cap spending. It has failed and has 6 not lowered taxes. 7 So today we stand with the last 8 possible choice, and that is to provide a tax 9 cap, property tax cap. And as has been said, 10 it is but a first step in a total process to 11 try and do two things: Deal with the 12 individual who pays the bill, and at some 13 point we will look at and ensure that our 14 constitutional mandate to provide a free and 15 appropriate education is maintained. 16 I vote in the affirmative. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 18 you, Senator LaValle. You will be recorded as 19 a yes. 20 Senator Nozzolio. 21 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Madam 22 President, I ask permission to explain my 23 vote. 24 Madam President and my colleagues, 25 skyrocketing property taxes are by far the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 number-one concern of the constituents I serve 2 in the Central Finger Lakes region. Property 3 taxes are making it difficult for seniors to 4 stay in their homes, making it virtually 5 impossible for young people to afford the 6 purchase of a new home, and are squeezing the 7 budgets of families and businesses all across 8 New York State. 9 The action we're taking today, by 10 placing a cap on school and local government 11 property taxes, is going to provide homeowners 12 the relief that they desperately need. 13 Madam President, 43 other states 14 have some type of property tax cap and they've 15 seen reductions in property taxes across their 16 states. It's time New York had the same type 17 of relief, and it's time in New York, as we 18 become the 44th state, to again try to make 19 New York more competitive. 20 This is bipartisan. Governor 21 Cuomo's first proposal, his very first 22 priority is establishing this property tax 23 cap. We support that priority. We've 24 supported it for a number of years. We're 25 hopeful that through the Governor's action the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Assembly will come on board and enact a real 2 property tax cap. 3 Groups from all across New York, 4 whether it be Unshackle New York, the National 5 Federation of Independent Businesses, the Farm 6 Bureau, they all have supported this 7 legislation, and I'm glad we are about to do 8 the same. 9 And lastly, Madam President, 10 establishing a cap that accompanied with that 11 is appropriate mandate relief, measures that 12 will help school districts and local 13 governments cut their costs, no longer having 14 to burden property taxpayers with those costly 15 mandates is also the essential ingredient in 16 this. Together, mandate relief and property 17 tax capping, putting New York back on the road 18 to economic recovery, it's a measure that I 19 wholeheartedly endorse. 20 Thank you, Madam President. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 22 you, Senator Nozzolio. You will be recorded 23 as a yes. 24 Senator Grisanti. 25 SENATOR GRISANTI: Thank you,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Madam President. I too support this measure. 2 But I have different reasons for 3 this. I represent an area in Western New York 4 that's the third poorest in the nation in 5 regards to its size. I also represent an area 6 in Buffalo, New York, that doesn't even have a 7 school tax bill. The City of Niagara Falls 8 that I represent does have a school tax bill, 9 but yet they have not raised their school tax 10 bill in 18 years. The reason being is they've 11 been coping, they've consolidated, they've 12 done what was right with regard to their 13 educational district and their schooling. 14 I then talked to the other towns, 15 in the City of Tonawanda and Grand Island. 16 They know that a tax cap is coming. They know 17 that this year is going to be very painful for 18 New York State. It's not going to be easy 19 this year. There's a large deficit, we all 20 know that. I'm proud because I ran on a 21 bipartisanship platform and we have a vote 22 here now that's bipartisanship. 23 But when I talked to these school 24 districts, they said to me, We know a cap is 25 coming, just give us an override provision.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Which is what's in that bill. So I accept 2 that. 3 I'm proud to have the support of 4 this bill. Thank you very much. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 6 you, Senator Grisanti. You will be recorded 7 in the affirmative. 8 Senator Farley. 9 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, Madam 10 President. 11 I come from a town called 12 Niskayuna, which some wag once said was an old 13 Indian word for "high taxes." 14 (Laughter.) 15 SENATOR FARLEY: This is an 16 example of a bill that is really needed by the 17 general population. Everywhere I go, they're 18 demanding that we pass this tax cap. It's 19 reasonable. It's reasonable from the point 20 that the local taxing unit, they can raise it 21 if they want to, with a two-thirds vote, but 22 then they're going to have to face the 23 taxpayer if they do that. 24 As we go forward with this bill -- 25 and I'm so pleased to see so many on the other

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 side of the aisle joining in and supporting 2 this legislation. And our Governor, who's 3 made it his major priority and a major plank 4 in his campaign. 5 But I'm asking my colleagues on the 6 other side of the aisle, you all have Assembly 7 people. We all have one, two, three Assembly 8 people. Lobby them to take and pass this 9 particular bill. If this legislation goes 10 over to the Assembly and gets emasculated and 11 filled in with all kinds of exceptions and so 12 forth, it will be worthless. 13 This is the legislation we need. 14 We need to stand together and do the right 15 thing for the New York State taxpayer. I 16 proudly vote yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 18 you, Senator Farley. You will be recorded as 19 a yes. 20 Senator O'Mara. 21 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you, Madam 22 President. I rise in support of this bill. 23 Although I have reservations of the 24 impact of this, if we do not proceed with 25 mandate relief, that it will be required.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 I look back at the old adage of 2 what came first, the chicken or the egg. Our 3 taxpayers demand relief from property taxes. 4 This is one part of that that we have to move 5 forward with, the cap. But we also have to 6 move forward with mandate relief or this cap 7 will not be feasible for our school districts 8 or our local governments to contend with. 9 I'm proud of the legislation we've 10 done in this body already this year to put 11 forth legislation and progress for a spending 12 cap at the state level and to require a 13 supermajority at the State Legislature for 14 spending and tax and fee increases as we are 15 now looking to move forward with local 16 governments. 17 So while I would prefer to see 18 mandate relief come first or at the same time 19 with this, I understand the necessity of 20 moving forward and keeping the pressure on to 21 proceed with mandate relief so that this cap 22 that we move to impose today is feasible for 23 our local governments to meet and still 24 provide the necessary services at the local 25 level besides what we have forced upon them

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 from this State Legislature over decades of 2 mandates being piled on. We need to relieve 3 those mandates in addition to this legislation 4 today. 5 Thank you, Madam President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 7 you, Senator O'Mara. You will be recorded as 8 a yes. 9 Senator Ball. 10 SENATOR BALL: Madam President, 11 on the bill. 12 I know we all have stories in our 13 district on property taxes and really what is 14 a system in New York State that has turned 15 what used to be the American dream into a 16 nightmare for many. And I know that we've all 17 gone door to door and we work all very hard in 18 our districts. And when you knock on those 19 doors and you go in, and many times it's a 20 senior and they invite you in and they talk 21 about downsizing. 22 When you're 72, 73, 74, 75 or 23 older, you don't want to downsize. It's a 24 polite way to say that I saved, I did the 25 right thing -- not like my generation, people

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 who are 75 and 80, believe me they did the 2 right thing and they saved. But they could 3 never prepare for tax increases that were 4 double digits compounded annually year after 5 year after year. 6 I'm the first in my family to 7 graduate from college. My mother went to work 8 when she was 17, 18. She never graduated from 9 high school. We talk about reforming 10 pensions, as if pensions and overtime are a 11 bad thing. My mother is retired. She made 12 $29,000 a year. If it wasn't for overtime, 13 she wouldn't have been able to raise us kids. 14 She worked nights at Harlem Valley Psychiatric 15 Center, she came home and she worked in the 16 rich people's house up on Quaker Hill. She 17 literally would work 18 hours a day. That 18 wasn't one day, one week, that was a way of 19 life. 20 I watched my parents, who were 21 caretakers -- which they did during the day, 22 during their free time -- save enough money, 23 paycheck by paycheck, and we built the family 24 home, literally. My brothers, my mom, my 25 dad -- my mom, yes. My mom can outwork any

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 man I've ever met in my life. And they built 2 that home. And when I went off to college at 3 the United States Air Force Academy, I came 4 back and they said, "You know what, we're 5 going to sell. Because we know we're not 6 going to be able to afford the property 7 taxes." 8 That reality, that reality plays 9 itself out each and every day. And it's not 10 just residential. I met somebody, a local 11 business owner, a commercial property owner. 12 They said that when they moved into 13 Westchester County, there were over 60 14 businesses that were in that corporate park. 15 He's the last one there today. And last year 16 every penny he made from leasing out that 17 property, every single penny went to pay his 18 property tax bill. Folks, even organized 19 crime just takes a taste. 20 The New York State Legislature is 21 breaking the back of working people, 22 blue-collar people and small business owners 23 in this state. If we want people to be able 24 to stay here, if we want to have a state we 25 can be proud of, and if we want a tax base --

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 and if for no other reason than to be able to 2 fund the social programs that many of us 3 support -- we'd better get our act in gear. 4 And somebody said, "Well, why do we 5 have to do it now?" Because it isn't needed 6 now, it was needed 20 years ago, and we have 7 no more time to waste. 8 Madam President, I'll be voting in 9 the affirmative. Thank you. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 11 you, Senator Ball. You will be recorded as a 12 yes. 13 Does any other Senator wish to 14 speak? 15 The Secretary will record the vote. 16 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 17 the negative on Calendar Number 39 are 18 Senators Addabbo, Avella, Diaz, Dilan, Duane, 19 Espaillat, Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, 20 C. Kruger, Montgomery, Parker, Peralta, 21 Perkins, Rivera, Serrano, Squadron and 22 Stavisky. 23 Ayes, 45. Nays, 17. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: The bill 25 is passed.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 The Secretary will read. 2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3 40, by Senator Saland, Senate Print 2707, an 4 act to amend the General Municipal Law and the 5 Education Law. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Read the 7 last section. 8 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This 9 act shall take effect immediately. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Call the 11 roll. 12 (The Secretary called the roll.) 13 SENATOR SALAND: To explain my 14 vote. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 16 Saland, to explain his vote. 17 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Madam 18 President. 19 Madam President, this a mandate 20 relief bill which effectively says there shall 21 be no mandates imposed by the state on any 22 lower level of government -- be it a school 23 district, be it a county, be it a 24 municipality -- unless the state is providing 25 the funding. It's a balanced bill that

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 recognizes there are certain exceptions; 2 unexpected judgments, things of that ilk. 3 It really reflects a bill that 4 we've seen in one or another form over the 5 course of I'd say the last 15 years or more. 6 It's something that we've been attempting to 7 do. It's been really a clarion call, I think, 8 for this house over the course of the past two 9 decades. 10 And unfortunately, we've yet to 11 find a response from our colleagues over in 12 the other side of this third floor, our 13 friends in the Assembly. They for some reason 14 or other find the prospect of dealing with 15 unfunded mandates to be foreign to anything 16 and apparently everything that the majority 17 there believes in. 18 This house again has had a long 19 history -- and a bipartisan one, at that -- of 20 supporting mandate relief measures. This 21 continues that history. And in this 22 particular case, I welcome the fact that the 23 Governor has appointed his mandate relief 24 reorganization team. They will be reporting 25 on the first of March. And we hopefully at

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 that point will begin the process of 2 supplementing this prospective legislation by 3 starting to roll back some of these onerous 4 mandates that have been imposed upon local 5 governments. 6 Thank you, Madam President, for 7 affording me the opportunity to explain my 8 vote. Needless to say, I vote in the 9 affirmative. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 11 you, Senator Saland. You will be recorded in 12 the affirmative. 13 Senator Squadron, to explain his 14 vote. 15 SENATOR SQUADRON: Thank you, 16 Madam President. 17 Dealing with the unfunded mandates 18 across New York State is important, is 19 critical. And I commend Governor Cuomo for 20 beginning the Mandate Relief Task Force, which 21 is so, so important. 22 The problem with this bill is it 23 has that great title, "mandate relief," 24 without the process to make it work. As I 25 read the bill, any law that would -- that any

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 local government could claim costs them 2 $10,000 a year would be invalidated or not 3 become law in some other way that's not fully 4 defined in this bill. 5 The truth is, just putting a great 6 slogan out there and throwing a bill on the 7 floor doesn't solve the problem of unfunded 8 mandates across the state, particularly a bill 9 that it seems would give near-veto power to 10 any local government in the State of New York 11 for any piece of legislation on any basis. 12 If you don't believe in the 13 existence of state government or the ability 14 to legislate, then this bill's details make a 15 lot of sense. Otherwise, they don't. 16 Let's work together with the 17 Governor to get real mandate relief, the sort 18 that Senator Oppenheimer, Senator 19 Stewart-Cousins and others have been fighting 20 for for years. Let's get it done this year in 21 a real way. I vote no, Madam President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 23 you, Senator Squadron. You will be recorded 24 as a no. 25 The Secretary will announce the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 results. 2 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 3 the negative on Calendar Number 40 are 4 Senators Avella, Diaz, Espaillat, Gianaris, 5 Hassell-Thompson, L. Krueger, Montgomery, 6 Parker, Peralta, Perkins, Rivera, Sampson, 7 Serrano, Smith, Squadron, Stavisky and 8 Stewart-Cousins. Also Senator Dilan. Also 9 Senator Duane. 10 Ayes, 43. Nays, 19. 11 In relation to Calendar Number 40, 12 in the negative also Senator C. Kruger. 13 Ayes, 42. Nays, 20. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: The bill 15 is passed. 16 Senator Libous, that concludes the 17 noncontroversial reading of the calendar. 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Madam 19 President. Can we please return to the order 20 of motions and resolutions. 21 And I believe there's a privileged 22 resolution at the desk by Senator Martins. 23 May we please have the title read and move for 24 its immediate adoption. And I would ask you 25 to call on Senator Martins after the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 resolution is read. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Motions 3 and resolutions. 4 The Secretary will read. 5 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 6 Martins, legislative resolution urging the 7 Governor of the State of New York and his 8 Mandate Relief and Medicaid Redesign Teams to 9 comprehensively address a real property tax 10 cap and mandate relief reform, in order to 11 provide the taxpayers of the State of New York 12 with lasting and meaningful real property tax 13 relief. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 15 Martins. 16 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you, 17 Madam President. 18 I rise to urge our colleagues here 19 today to support this resolution as a 20 reaffirmation of that which we just spoke to, 21 and that is that the property tax cap is 22 merely a first step in the necessary real 23 property tax reform that we need as a state as 24 we move forward. 25 We heard time and again during our

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 comments this afternoon that it's not enough 2 just to cap taxes, but we also have to 3 understand that there are consequences that 4 are going to impact our local communities, our 5 villages, our towns and our counties as well 6 as our school districts, and that we should as 7 a chamber stand together in recognizing that 8 the tax cap was merely a first step, that we 9 do have additional work and that we should 10 focus on those mandate relief items that are 11 before us. 12 I know that the Governor has tasked 13 a Mandate Relief Task Force, in which we are 14 ably represented by our colleagues Senator 15 Little and Senator Stewart-Cousins, that is 16 tasked to come back with some recommendations 17 by March 1st, as well as our Medicaid Relief 18 Task Force, also due back with recommendations 19 by March 1st. 20 I think it's important that we send 21 a message to our local governments, to our 22 constituents that yes, we capped taxes today. 23 Yes, it's an important first step. But 24 equally as important, it's that we understand 25 that we have an obligation as a government at

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 every level to continue to provide basic 2 services to our local communities, wherever 3 they may be, and that we understand that there 4 are pressures that are placed on local 5 communities and on school districts by state 6 mandates that take away from their ability to 7 meet those requirements under the restrictions 8 that we have. 9 And that we should work together as 10 a chamber to understand those differences, to 11 understand those pressures, and to work to 12 offset those pressure points that exist and 13 those cost drivers that exist in local 14 government today. 15 So I stand to ask our colleagues 16 here to reinforce that message, that this job 17 and this process is not complete by any 18 measure, and that we're prepared to work 19 collaboratively not only as a chamber but with 20 the Governor and with the other chamber to 21 make sure that real mandate relief is part of 22 this session. 23 Thank you. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 25 you, Senator Martins.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 On the resolution, Senator 2 Carlucci. 3 SENATOR CARLUCCI: Thank you, 4 Madam President. 5 I'd like to thank Senator Martins 6 for putting forth this resolution. As was 7 just spoken about, a property tax cap is an 8 important first step in the right direction 9 towards ultimately lowering property taxes in 10 New York State and bringing real relief to our 11 neighbors. 12 The most important thing here in 13 this resolution is giving municipalities and 14 school districts the tools that they need to 15 make the decisions, to make smart decisions 16 that cut costs. 17 Right in here is exactly what I was 18 talking about last week when I put forth a 19 bill to allow municipalities to pool their 20 employees together under one healthcare plan, 21 to allow them and give them the tools to share 22 services when needed. And that will bring the 23 relief that we need that we can pass that 24 savings on to property taxpayers. 25 So again, I want to thank Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Martins for putting this bill forward. And I 2 look forward to many of these issues becoming 3 a reality when we have bipartisan support here 4 in the Legislature. 5 So, Madam President, thank you so 6 much. I look forward to voting in the 7 affirmative on this resolution. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 9 you, Senator Carlucci. 10 Senator Klein. 11 SENATOR KLEIN: Thank you, Madam 12 President. I too would like to rise in 13 support of this resolution. 14 In reading through it, I hope a lot 15 of what Senator Martins has contained in this 16 resolution ultimately is passed in both the 17 Senate and the Assembly. Because as I said 18 earlier, there really needs to be a very 19 comprehensive approach if we're really serious 20 about reducing property taxes. 21 I too introduced a piece of 22 legislation, and I just want to remind my 23 colleagues not all mandates are what they call 24 unfunded mandates. But sometimes the state 25 just isn't allowing localities to do very

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 simple things which would generate money for 2 individual localities. My legislation would 3 allow the localities to be able to turn tax 4 arrears and other fines into municipal liens. 5 Right now what we're having in 6 municipalities all over the state is a lot of 7 people who own homes, most of them owned by 8 corporations, are running up huge, huge tax 9 bills, and the localities do not have the 10 ability to turn around and get them to pay. 11 By actually turning them into 12 municipal liens will allow our localities 13 throughout the State of New York to really 14 cash in and get potentially millions and 15 millions of dollars. 16 So of course I vote yes and support 17 this resolution as well, Madam President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 19 you, Senator Klein. 20 Any other Senator wishing to speak? 21 (No response.) 22 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Then on 23 the resolution, all those in favor signify by 24 saying aye. 25 (Response of "Aye.")

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Opposed, 2 nay. 3 (Response of "Nay.") 4 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: The 5 resolution carries. 6 Senator Libous. 7 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President, 8 Resolution Number 338 is at the desk. I ask 9 that the title be read and we move for its 10 immediate adoption. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: The 12 Secretary will read. 13 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 14 Skelos, Senate Resolution Number 338, 15 Resolved, That the Rules of the Senate for the 16 years 2011-2012 are hereby adopted. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 18 Breslin. 19 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you, 20 Madam President. 21 I believe there is an amendment at 22 the desk. I ask that the reading of the 23 amendment be waived and the sponsor be given 24 an opportunity to be heard. And that would be 25 Senator Squadron.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Waive 2 the reading on the amendment, and you may be 3 heard on your amendment, Senator Squadron. 4 SENATOR SQUADRON: Thank you, 5 Madam President. On the nonsponsor amendment 6 to the Rules resolution put forward by Senator 7 Skelos. 8 It has long been held in this body 9 and long been agreed on both sides of the 10 aisle that the rules need to be fixed. And 11 that the reason the rules need to be fixed 12 isn't so we feel good about ourselves here in 13 this august chamber or around the halls of the 14 Capitol, but the rules need to be fixed 15 because that is the best way to deal with the 16 pressing issues before the State of New York. 17 Today we have spent some time 18 talking about some of the issues that are 19 incredibly important across the state. There 20 are any number of others. We're about to see 21 a budget tomorrow that is likely to be the 22 worst budget in terms of the pain of cuts that 23 we've ever seen proposed. 24 And the truth is for this body to 25 be prepared to debate it, to look at that

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 budget in the best possible way to ensure the 2 best possible outcome, we need rules that are 3 fair, that allow each of us to represent our 4 constituents. Our constituents don't care 5 whether we're in the majority or the minority. 6 They don't care whether we win an argument on 7 the floor or lose an argument on the floor. 8 What they care about is that we as a body are 9 able to get results on the things that matter 10 to them. And the rules are the number-one way 11 that we do that. 12 As Senator Bonacic said a little 13 over a year ago, good process makes good 14 policy. And I couldn't agree with him more. 15 In fact, Senator Bonacic, Senator Griffo, 16 former Senator Winner together, close to two 17 years ago, put out a report. This report came 18 at the end of the work of the Temporary 19 Committee on Rules and Administration which 20 Senator Smith had put together at the 21 beginning of the 2009 session. 22 That bipartisan committee, 23 cochaired by Senators Bonacic and Valesky, 24 including myself, Senator Parker, Senator 25 Stewart-Cousins, Senator Serrano and Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Klein, went all around the state. We were in 2 Syracuse -- we shared a bipartisan meal at the 3 Great Dinosaur Barbeque in downtown 4 Syracuse -- we were out on Long Island, we 5 were here in Albany, we were in New York City 6 having a deliberative process to figure out 7 the best rules for the house. 8 At the end of that process, the 9 minority members of that committee put out a 10 report. And it was called, I believe, the 11 "Minority Report of the Temporary Committee on 12 Rules and Administration," authored by 13 Senators Bonacic, Griffo and former Senator 14 Winner. 15 That minority report had a lot of 16 good recommendations in it. Some of those 17 recommendations were in fact adopted in the 18 last session. Not all of them were. As we 19 have long said -- as we said in January of 20 2009, again in April of 2009, again in July of 21 2009 -- the rules in this house have 22 historically been so bad, so unequal, so 23 nontransparent, so difficult to allow each 24 member to represent their constituents that we 25 need many steps to make those rules fair. We

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 had those conversations on the floor, we had 2 those conversations off the floor. 3 Senator Bonacic, Senator Griffo and 4 Senator Winner put out that minority report, 5 and it had some great components. In fact, 6 the first suggestion quoted Senator Klein, in 7 the spirit of bipartisanship. Quoting Senator 8 Klein in that report, "I would like to make a 9 recommendation that we allow the ranker of 10 committees to be able to hire their own 11 committee or committee staff person, have a 12 counsel as well as a director, the same as the 13 chair." The report then says, "Senator Klein 14 further pointed out that the chair should have 15 an additional allocation for a clerk. The 16 minority adopts Senator Klein's position." 17 The report also banned the 18 existence of what it so appropriately termed 19 "Senator Rules," the fact that the Rules 20 Committee can just put a bill in without a 21 sponsor. 22 It suggested, among other things, 23 equal access to Senate services so that things 24 like mailings to our constituents and 25 technology equipment and access to all of the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 nuts and bolts of the place would be 2 nonpartisan and equal. 3 It suggested that we publish 4 committee agendas a week in advance so that 5 members have the time to really study the 6 bills ahead of time, advocates and those 7 outside have a time to weigh in. 8 It suggested civil-service-type 9 procedures for the staff of the Senate that 10 isn't political, that isn't partisan. 11 It also suggested that we develop 12 an amendment process in committee and that we 13 make it easier to create conference 14 committees. 15 None of those suggestions, 16 unfortunately, were adopted in the last two 17 years. Some of the other suggestions in here 18 were. But I stand here today with this 19 amendment to suggest that those suggestions 20 made by that minority report from the 21 temporary committee, made in a bipartisan 22 spirit, quoting a member from the other side 23 of the aisle, should be adopted as part of 24 these rules. 25 We all agreed the rules started

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 way, way back. Step by step by step, they are 2 getting better. The point today is to 3 continue to make them better, not to stop the 4 progress in its tracks. 5 For decades the rules only got 6 worse or they got a little cosmetic change. 7 Then, for two years, we worked together, all 8 of us -- I remember working with Senator 9 Libous and others -- we worked together to 10 improve the rules. And this amendment is 11 about continuing that progress so that 12 together we can continue to build the best 13 possible body here in Albany, so that across 14 the state our constituents can be well served 15 and we can get results that make a difference 16 in this time of crisis across the state. 17 You know, earlier today in the 18 Rules Committee there was a brief debate on a 19 resolution put forward by Senator Krueger. 20 Now, that was, in my view, the gold standard 21 of what we could do with rules, Senator 22 Krueger's resolution. And unfortunately, it 23 did not pass through the Rules Committee. And 24 perhaps as a body we're not yet there, we're 25 not yet ready for that.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 But certainly today we are ready to 2 adopt the recommendations made 20 months ago 3 by members of the current Majority. Certainly 4 we can come together and say the next step is 5 to join both sides of the aisle -- those who 6 authored this report, those who participated 7 in that temporary committee -- and take the 8 next step for reform instead of stopping 9 reform in its tracks. Which is unfortunately 10 what this resolution does. 11 In fact, this resolution doesn't 12 even do that, unfortunately. This resolution, 13 like so many other rules resolutions over the 14 years, actually takes a step backwards. 15 Because this resolution, out of nowhere -- and 16 I've got to tell you, I've read the minority 17 report, I've read a number of the previous 18 rules resolutions going back a number of 19 years. I haven't read every one of them, but 20 I've got to tell you, in every rules 21 resolution I've read, there was never this 22 provision, the provision that would strip the 23 Lieutenant Governor of his or her ability to 24 ensure that the Senate keeps moving forward, 25 the provision that makes it impossible for the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Senate to devolve into the kind of gridlock 2 that we had for 31 days in June and July of 3 2009. 4 And yet these rules, rather than 5 taking the next step for progress -- and in 6 this case, in the case of this amendment, a 7 very measured step for progress but one that 8 hopefully we can all come together around -- 9 these rules take a step backward and in fact 10 take a step backward towards the kind of chaos 11 we had. If you remember during that period, 12 sometimes called the coup, the reason that it 13 was impossible to move forward was because 14 there was no Lieutenant Governor. In fact, 15 the Governor at the time went to great lengths 16 to appoint a Lieutenant Governor so that we 17 could break that gridlock. 18 Unfortunately, the members of this 19 house were not able to come together for 31 20 days. We did in fact come into the chamber at 21 one point simultaneously, but it was certainly 22 not a session and certainly not productive, 23 certainly not any of our finest hours. 24 And that entire gridlock was 25 because we didn't have a Lieutenant Governor

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 who could move the process of the Senate 2 forward. That, by the way, is exactly the 3 reason that constitutional scholars going back 4 to 1777 have given for the casting vote for 5 the power of the Lieutenant Governor: To move 6 the process forward, to ensure that we don't 7 get stuck in a tie that stops the business of 8 the Senate. 9 So unfortunately today we have a 10 resolution before us that's no better in 11 reform than where we got as we were moving 12 forward over the last couple of years. It 13 freezes reform in its tracks and then, 14 unfortunately, turns it right around and takes 15 a couple of steps backwards. 16 Now, this amendment I'm putting 17 forward, in the interest of bipartisanship and 18 in the sincere hope that it actually can get a 19 majority of Senators, does not strike that 20 Lieutenant Governor clause, though I think 21 it's unconstitutional and frankly 22 unconscionable. What it does is it takes only 23 provisions put forward in the minority report 24 from the Temporary Committee on Rules and 25 Administration, and only takes those which I

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 think are most likely to find unanimous or 2 near unanimous support in this house. And it 3 would propose to amend the rules put forward 4 by the majority in that way, in the following 5 ways. 6 It would limit the number of 7 committees on which a Senator may serve to not 8 more than four committees and one 9 subcommittee. It would eliminate "aye without 10 recommendation," so that everyone has to vote 11 up or down in committee. It would require the 12 Journal Clerk to date and time-stamp each bill 13 upon introduction. It would call for regional 14 prebudget hearings to solicit input from 15 various areas in the state. 16 I would point out that the current 17 rules before us change the previous rules by 18 doing away with postbudget hearings. So this 19 would certainly correct for that. 20 It specifies that additional 21 funding should go to ranking members on 22 committees to allow them to hire necessary 23 staff. It specifies that the administration 24 and operations of the Senate shall be provided 25 equitably to majority and minority Senators.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 It requires committee agendas to be 2 submitted one week prior to the scheduled 3 committee meeting. It requires the Secretary 4 of the Senate to develop nonpartisan 5 civil-service-based procedures to hire staff. 6 And it takes Senator Rules out of the picture 7 by taking the ability of the Rules Committee 8 to introduce legislation. 9 Every one of those provisions was 10 in the minority report authored by three 11 Republican Senators. Every one of those 12 provisions is a reasonable next step in 13 reform. And for that reason, I urge you to 14 vote for this amendment that I put forward for 15 this resolution. 16 Thank you. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 18 DeFrancisco, would you yield for a question? 19 SENATOR SQUADRON: Senator 20 DeFrancisco, I'd be happy to. 21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Just -- my 22 question is, in view of all the benefits of 23 this minority report and how terrific it was, 24 when you were in the majority and had the 25 votes to adopt all of these, you must have had

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 a reason why not to adopt them. Can you give 2 us that reason? 3 SENATOR SQUADRON: Senator 4 DeFrancisco, I think that I was trying to 5 describe -- in fact, I thought I had hit it on 6 repeatedly, but I'm happy to do it again -- 7 the process by which we went from rules that 8 were pretty much the worst rules under the two 9 previous majorities ago, that were pretty much 10 the worst rules in the nation in terms of 11 openness -- in fact, the only legislative body 12 in the nation I believe that had in effect a 13 nonoverrideable veto for the leader, who had 14 sole control over what bills went to the 15 floor, under the old rules, through the active 16 list and the starring system. And so we were 17 starting at a very, very low point. 18 And, look, my view was, and I said 19 this every step of the way -- and the 20 transcripts will reflect that -- every step of 21 the way, I said we should be going a little 22 bit farther and a little bit quicker. But the 23 truth is in January 2009 we put the best rules 24 in the history of this Senate into effect in 25 terms of bipartisanship, in terms of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 empowering members. In April we put forward a 2 report that took the next -- 3 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 4 DeFrancisco, why do you rise? 5 SENATOR SQUADRON: -- step. In 6 July, the rules went even farther. And what 7 I'm saying is this is the appropriate next 8 step. 9 Do I wish we had done more in the 10 last two years? Absolutely. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 12 DeFrancisco. 13 SENATOR SQUADRON: Should we take 14 this opportunity right now? Without a doubt. 15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would you 16 yield to another question? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Would 18 you yield, Senator? 19 SENATOR SQUADRON: I'd be happy 20 to. 21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: So from 22 December of 2009 to December of 2010, you 23 couldn't find time to get around to these 24 rules that are so important to pass at this 25 moment, is that the idea? There was no time

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 to do it or you were going slowly or -- you 2 know, I'm not quite sure the reason. You 3 haven't given me the reason why you didn't get 4 back to these rules. 5 SENATOR SQUADRON: Senator 6 DeFrancisco, I'm surprised to hear you say, 7 just based on having been here for a number of 8 debates over the last couple of years, that 9 you wish we had spent more time in process 10 over the last two years. 11 As I say, I do believe that we need 12 to be going farther and we need to be going 13 farther faster. What I don't understand is 14 why today we would freeze the progress that 15 we've made in its tracks. The truth is, 16 Senator DeFrancisco, there were new rules in 17 January of 2009; they were better than the 18 previous rules. There were new rules in July 19 of 2009; they were better than the previous 20 rules. And now it is January of 2011, and 21 these rules should be better than the previous 22 rules, not worse. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 24 DeFrancisco. 25 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: One last

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 question, and one last attempt. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 3 Squadron, do you yield to Senator DeFrancisco? 4 SENATOR SQUADRON: I do, even if 5 it's not the last question or the last 6 attempt. 7 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator, 8 can you tell me why the prior majority freezed 9 the process from January of 2009 to December 10 of 2010? 11 SENATOR SQUADRON: Senator 12 DeFrancisco, I actually wouldn't say that we 13 froze the process. In fact -- I don't know if 14 you are on the Rules Committee; I am not. But 15 I know that Senator Krueger's, as I put it, 16 gold standard of rules was put forward there. 17 A lot of those provisions actually have been 18 developed over the last year and a half. 19 Again, Senator DeFrancisco, over 20 the last couple of years ago we did a whole 21 lot. We created a new temporary committee. 22 We unfortunately, because of the lack of a 23 Lieutenant Governor, the inability to break an 24 awful, awful stalemate, had some of the 25 darkest 31 days in this Senate's history.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 And the truth is, as I said before, 2 the January 2009 rules were better than any 3 that had come before. The July 2009 rules 4 were better than any that had come before. 5 And now, unfortunately, in January of 2011 we 6 have before us rules that are worse. And that 7 is the wrong direction. That is the end of 8 progress here. 9 And I think I'll close by quoting 10 Senator DeFrancisco from January of 2009. And 11 he was standing on this side of the aisle and 12 looking across to that side, and so I will do 13 the same. "You can do now with your vote 14 exactly what you claimed was necessary for 15 many years. All I want to do is basically set 16 the record straight. Conduct is a heck of a 17 lot more important than words touting 18 reforms." 19 And so, Senator DeFrancisco, in 20 that spirit, I hope that these rules will not 21 be worse than the rules that we had in July 22 and in January over the last term. I hope 23 these rules will be better. 24 Thank you. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Saland. 2 SENATOR SALAND: I was about to 3 ask Senator Squadron if he might yield. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 5 Squadron, do you yield? 6 SENATOR SQUADRON: I'd be happy 7 to. 8 SENATOR SALAND: Senator 9 Squadron, are you aware, in your review of the 10 rules that you undertook, whether or not the 11 members of this chamber could vote on bills, 12 as distinguished from resolutions, by voice 13 vote? Has this chamber ever been able to 14 vote -- 15 SENATOR SQUADRON: I'm sorry, 16 would you repeat -- under which rules are 17 you -- 18 SENATOR SALAND: Has there ever 19 been a set of rules in this chamber -- you 20 said you studied the rules, you went back and 21 looked at the rules. And I'm asking if you're 22 aware if there -- however lengthy or brief 23 your study was, did the rules ever permit a 24 voice vote on a bill as distinguished from a 25 resolution?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 2 Squadron, before you respond, I would like to 3 remind the members to go through the chair, 4 please. 5 Senator Squadron. 6 SENATOR SQUADRON: Thank you, 7 Madam Chair. I think I am interested in 8 hearing Senator Saland's reasoned analysis of 9 that question, because it doesn't seem to be a 10 simple yes or no. 11 SENATOR SALAND: I think the 12 question requires a simple yes or no. Have 13 you -- well, let me ask you, can you think of 14 a perhaps more inappropriate, less transparent 15 and more undemocratic means by which to govern 16 than to permit voice votes on bills as 17 distinguished from resolutions? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 19 Squadron. 20 SENATOR SQUADRON: If the 21 question is can I think of a less democratic, 22 less transparent and more -- perhaps 23 "dysfunctional" was the word you used; I don't 24 recall -- way of operating than to permit 25 voice votes on bills rather than resolutions,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 yes, I can imagine significantly less 2 democratic, less transparent, and more 3 dysfunctional rules than that. 4 SENATOR SALAND: So if -- 5 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Again, 6 Senator Saland, if you would go through the 7 chair, please. 8 SENATOR SALAND: If he'll 9 continue to yield. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Will you 11 yield? 12 SENATOR SALAND: Senator 13 Squadron, so then you would find it acceptable 14 to -- 15 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: One 16 moment. 17 Senator Squadron, do you yield? 18 SENATOR SQUADRON: I do. Thank 19 you, Madam President. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 21 you, Senator. 22 SENATOR SALAND: So you would 23 find it an acceptable practice that members 24 would not be recorded on votes on bills and 25 would merely vote aye or no and have the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ability to say that they did whatever it is 2 that they would want to tell their 3 constituents that they did? 4 SENATOR SQUADRON: Through you, 5 Madam President -- 6 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Yes, 7 Senator. 8 SENATOR SQUADRON: -- I actually 9 don't find that acceptable. I said that I 10 could imagine less democratic, less 11 transparent and more dysfunctional procedures 12 than that one. And in fact the one that gives 13 the majority leader of either party the 14 executive ability to in effect veto any 15 legislation in the State of New York I think 16 is all of those things. 17 But this also is problematic. As, 18 by the way, was the long tradition in this 19 house of so-called empty-seat voting, where 20 folks could check in and then did not need to 21 appear in the chamber at all and were able to 22 have their votes recorded. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 24 you, Senator. 25 Senator.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR SALAND: Well, if Senator 2 Squadron would continue to yield. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 4 Squadron, do you yield? 5 SENATOR SQUADRON: I do, yes. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: The 7 Senator yields. 8 SENATOR SALAND: If in fact, 9 again, you are in attendance and you are 10 permitted to vote by voice, as distinguished 11 from a show of hands or some electronic 12 device, is that not terribly undemocratic and 13 would that fit under a definition of 14 dysfunctional? 15 SENATOR SQUADRON: If you're 16 present and allowed to vote by a show of -- 17 excuse me. Through you, Madam President. If 18 you're present and allowed to vote through a 19 show of hands -- 20 SENATOR SALAND: Senator 21 Squadron, perhaps I didn't express myself 22 appropriately. 23 Will the Senator continue to yield? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Will you 25 yield to Senator Saland?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR SQUADRON: I will, Madam 2 President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 4 you. 5 SENATOR SALAND: I said if you're 6 present and -- as distinguished from voting by 7 a show of hands or in those chambers that 8 might have electronic devices -- you were 9 permitted by the rules of this house to cast a 10 voice vote on the bills we did today, for 11 example, would that not trouble you as being 12 undemocratic and dysfunctional? 13 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes. Yes, it 14 would, Madam Chair. And this is one reason 15 that -- and I'm not sure if this is what 16 Senator Saland is referring to, but it's one 17 reason that this house under these rules, 18 under the rules adopted in the last session, 19 no longer has a canvass of agreement. 20 SENATOR SALAND: I'm sorry, I 21 didn't hear Senator Squadron's last -- 22 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 23 Squadron, could you please repeat what you 24 just said? 25 SENATOR SALAND: I caught

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 everything up to "That's one of the reasons 2 why this house," and then -- 3 SENATOR SQUADRON: It's one 4 reason why this house no longer has a canvass 5 of agreement, thanks to the last term. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 7 you, Senator. 8 Senator Saland, would you like to 9 ask another question? 10 SENATOR SALAND: You, in your -- 11 if you'll continue to yield. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Will you 13 yield, Senator? 14 SENATOR SQUADRON: Through you, 15 Madam President, I will. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Go 17 ahead, Senator Saland. 18 SENATOR SALAND: With regard to 19 your earlier comment -- and I think it had 20 something to do with the ability of the 21 Majority Leader to take a bill off the 22 calendar. That was something which was 23 referred to, before you came here, as starring 24 a bill. Which a member may still be able to 25 do, but a leader cannot do.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 That was a practice that certainly 2 was decried, and appropriately so, and really 3 hadn't been used in a number of years. I 4 don't quite recall when I saw it, if I saw it 5 at all during my 20 years here. 6 And the purpose of my question is 7 just to establish some relativity. As 8 offensive as the practice of starring is, at 9 least you know who the individual is who was 10 the culprit who starred the bill. I would 11 find far more egregious the fact that a member 12 could vote on a bill and go home and claim 13 that he or she voted either yes or no and 14 there would be no record other than a voice 15 vote. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 17 Squadron. 18 SENATOR SQUADRON: Through you, 19 Madam President. I believe that both are 20 highly problematic. 21 As I say, the rules in the last 22 term eliminated the canvass of agreement which 23 in effect did that. And I'm glad it did. 24 And just briefly, what I was 25 referring to when I keep referring to the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 nonoverrideable veto of the Majority Leader 2 was not just the ability of the leader to 3 star, but also the fact that the active list 4 was exclusively controlled by the leader 5 without any procedures that could otherwise 6 get a bill to the floor, procedures that did 7 get put in place last term: the petition for 8 chamber consideration, the motion for chamber 9 consideration. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 11 you, Senator Squadron. 12 Senator Saland, do you ask that 13 Senator Squadron continues to yield? 14 SENATOR SALAND: No. 15 Thank you, Senator Squadron. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Do you 17 continue to yield, Senator? 18 SENATOR SQUADRON: I believe 19 Senator Saland is speaking on the amendment. 20 SENATOR SALAND: May I conclude? 21 Do I have the floor? I believe I do. I think 22 Senator Squadron is -- 23 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 24 Saland, on the amendment. 25 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 The purpose of the exercise was not 2 merely to engage in semantics. And the reason 3 for the reference to relativity, at least five 4 or so years ago, the last time I checked this 5 data, there were somewhere in the area of two 6 dozen houses, out of 99 -- so approximately 7 25 percent of the state legislative houses in 8 this nation permitted voice votes on 9 legislation. A practice which in and of 10 itself would certainly seem to be one of the 11 least transparent, most undemocratic, and 12 certainly, I think, grossly inappropriate 13 means by which members have the opportunity to 14 not merely cast their votes but to provide 15 themselves with the political good fortune of 16 saying whatever they want back home, depending 17 upon how the winds shift. 18 And the only reason I bring this up 19 is simply because in the course of your 20 comments you had characterized some of the old 21 rules as being particularly dysfunctional. I 22 find that to be -- and again, as recently as 23 five years ago, 25 percent of the houses in 24 this country permitted voice voting. I find 25 that, in fact, to be far more troubling.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 And the rules that we will deal 2 with once the vote has been had on the 3 amendment effectively are the rules that were 4 adopted last year, with several minor changes 5 and one change that you alluded to as being 6 unconstitutional or unconscionable -- for 7 which there certainly is no authority, and 8 perhaps we can address that when we get to 9 that particular rule or resolution. 10 Thank you, Madam President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 12 you, Senator Saland. 13 Senator Duane. 14 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Madam 15 President. If Senator Saland will yield. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 17 Saland, do you yield? 18 SENATOR DUANE: I'm sorry, I'm 19 sorry. If Senator Squadron will yield. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Oh, I'm 21 sorry. Excuse me. Senator Squadron, do you 22 yield to Senator Duane? 23 SENATOR SQUADRON: I do, Madam 24 President. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Duane, Senator Squadron yields. 2 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Madam 3 President. 4 Is it true that before the 5 now-majority invited Senators Monserrate and 6 Espada into their conference, that you were 7 particularly strong in your advocacy for rules 8 reform? 9 SENATOR SQUADRON: Through you, 10 Madam President, I certainly focused on it 11 quite a bit and pushed as hard as I could 12 while in the majority, both before and after 13 those 31 days. 14 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Madam 15 President. If the Senator will continue to 16 yield. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 18 Squadron, do you yield? 19 SENATOR SQUADRON: I do. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Go 21 ahead, Senator Duane. 22 SENATOR DUANE: And is it not 23 true that after Senators Espada and Monserrate 24 joined the now-majority that the 25 then-majority, now minority, with a steady

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 hand was able to keep at least the operations 2 of the Senate functioning? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 4 Squadron. 5 SENATOR SQUADRON: Through you, 6 Madam President. Absolutely. And in fact, 7 though not everything we wanted to do was 8 done, a lot of significant legislation passed 9 in that period. 10 SENATOR DUANE: And, Madam 11 President, if the Senator will continue to 12 yield. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Do you 14 yield? 15 SENATOR SQUADRON: I do. 16 SENATOR DUANE: And is it true 17 that even after Senators Espada and Monserrate 18 decided to leave the now-majority, 19 then-minority, that you, with Senators from 20 both sides of the aisle, continued to advocate 21 strongly for continued rules reform? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 23 Squadron. 24 SENATOR SQUADRON: It absolutely 25 is.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR DUANE: And -- 2 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 3 Duane, are you asking Senator Squadron to 4 yield? 5 SENATOR DUANE: Yes, Madam 6 President, I am. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Do you 8 yield, Senator Squadron? 9 SENATOR SQUADRON: I do. Thank 10 you. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Go 12 ahead. 13 SENATOR DUANE: And was it your 14 impression that -- or is it your belief that 15 in order to have lasting rules reform you need 16 buy-in from both sides of the aisle and 17 bipartisan agreement on rules reform? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 19 Squadron. 20 SENATOR SQUADRON: I absolutely 21 do. And in fact, that's what -- subsequent to 22 those two Senators helping to freeze the 23 chamber for 31 days, that's what we had. 24 And in fact, to just briefly go 25 back to a question of Senator DeFrancisco's,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 in fact we had that agreement and had been 2 asked by the then-minority to commit to not 3 changing the rules through the rest of that 4 session so as not to get into any other 5 procedural battles of that sort so we could do 6 the people's business for the rest of the 7 session. 8 SENATOR DUANE: And through you, 9 Madam President, if the Senator will yield. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 11 Squadron, do you yield? 12 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes. 13 SENATOR DUANE: And if the 14 Senator will tell us what was the result of 15 that request at that time. 16 SENATOR SQUADRON: Through you, 17 Madam President, the result of the request 18 from the minority at the time that the Senate 19 did get back to business, and did pass the 20 most significant rules changes that Albany has 21 seen in decades, was that rules were adopted, 22 rules were followed, the chaos and the fights 23 over rules and procedure melted away. 24 The house voted on bills; sometimes 25 they got passed, sometimes they didn't. I

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 wish more had gotten passed, but I'm glad the 2 process worked as it did. Members of both 3 parties were empowered. Members of both 4 parties were able to serve their constituents. 5 There were still procedural issues that needed 6 to be fixed, but the body worked. And the 7 majority, the Democratic majority at the time 8 kept its commitment to the Republican minority 9 not to change those rules within that session. 10 SENATOR DUANE: And through you, 11 Madam President, if the Senator will continue 12 to yield. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator, 14 do you yield? 15 SENATOR SQUADRON: I do. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Go 17 ahead. 18 SENATOR DUANE: Is it not your 19 belief, which is actually factually correct, 20 that there were numerous bills introduced by 21 members of both sides of the aisle that passed 22 with bipartisan support? 23 SENATOR SQUADRON: Through you, 24 Madam President, that did happen. 25 And in my understanding -- again, I

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 wasn't here, and I know that Senator Duane was 2 here previously and experienced a time when it 3 seemed that many fewer bills sponsored by 4 members of both parties passed. And during 5 that time, Senator Duane also was fighting 6 enormously hard for an open process, for an 7 improved rules process. And I know that 8 Senator Duane and others commented to me how 9 different it seems -- by the way, Senator 10 Duane and members on the other side of the 11 aisle -- how different it was after those 12 rules were passed. 13 SENATOR DUANE: And through 14 you -- 15 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 16 you, Senator. 17 Senator Duane, do you ask Senator 18 Squadron to continue to yield? 19 SENATOR DUANE: You're getting 20 ahead of me. But you did anticipate, yes, 21 Madam President, through you if the Senator 22 would -- 23 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: It's 24 always good to be on your toes, Senator. 25 Senator Squadron, do you yield?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR SQUADRON: I will, yes. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 3 you. 4 SENATOR DUANE: And was it your 5 intention and, to the extent possible, your 6 actions to continue to work with the other 7 side of the aisle on furthering what good 8 government groups and so many of us would call 9 more rules reform in our body? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 11 Squadron. 12 SENATOR SQUADRON: Through you, 13 Madam President, absolutely. 14 SENATOR DUANE: And, Madam 15 President, if the Senator would continue to 16 yield. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Do you 18 yield? 19 SENATOR SQUADRON: I do. 20 SENATOR DUANE: And without -- 21 with yielding that we wouldn't be going back 22 to the hideous days of the invention of the 23 onerous canvass of agreement which the 24 then-majority had us operate under, is it your 25 belief, Senator, that the rules that are being

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 presented not by us but, sadly, by the other 2 side of the aisle are a regression of the 3 reforms that we had been able to enact this 4 body thus far? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 6 Squadron. 7 SENATOR SQUADRON: Through you, 8 Madam President, I think that Senator Duane 9 articulates it very, very well. 10 The Senate rules before us now, 11 unlike both sets of rules that were passed 12 over the last two years under the Democratic 13 majority, goes back in terms of reform and 14 goes back in terms of clarity of the sort that 15 would prevent the kind of stalemate that we 16 had because of the provision that makes it 17 very unclear how is it, in the event of a tie, 18 that we would move forward by choosing that 19 all-important title in this house of Temporary 20 President and Majority Leader. 21 SENATOR DUANE: And through you, 22 Madam President, if the Senator would continue 23 to yield. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 25 Squadron.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes, thank 2 you, Madam President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Go 4 ahead, Senator. 5 SENATOR DUANE: Is it true that 6 the way the Senate had operated and in fact 7 the way it continued to operate last year 8 actually would make a coup like the one 9 precipitated by Senators Monserrate and Espada 10 when they joined the then-Republican minority, 11 is it not true that that continued to be 12 possible? 13 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 14 Squadron. 15 SENATOR SQUADRON: Through you, 16 Madam President, there were a couple of 17 reasons it wasn't. One was -- a couple of 18 reasons that the sort of coup that Senators 19 Espada and Monserrate began and that led to 20 the 31-day stalemate wouldn't happen. One of 21 those was that we had a Lieutenant Governor in 22 place who was there to fulfill his 23 constitutional duty of providing a casting 24 vote whenever there was a procedural deadlock. 25 But also, secondarily, a process of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 rules that had been developed together in a 2 bipartisan way, which those rules we were 3 operating under from July of 2009 through 4 December of 2010 are much less likely to 5 create that kind of deadlock -- that kind of 6 all-out power struggle that too often we see 7 in Albany where substance, even perception 8 fall by the wayside because power becomes 9 all-important -- because both sides had 10 participated at the table in developing those 11 rules and had agreed to operate under them for 12 a certain period of time. 13 SENATOR DUANE: And through you, 14 Madam President, if the Senator would continue 15 to yield. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 17 you, Senator Duane. 18 Senator Squadron, do you continue 19 to yield? 20 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes, thank 21 you. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Go 23 ahead, Senator Duane. 24 SENATOR DUANE: Is it correct to 25 say that at the time of the -- that traumatic

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 time when Senators Espada and Monserrate 2 joined the then-Republican minority, that the 3 then-Republican minority voted to elevate 4 Senator Espada to the position of temporary 5 president, which was in effect the acting 6 lieutenant governor? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 8 Squadron. 9 SENATOR SQUADRON: Through you, 10 Madam President, that did happen. I believe 11 that 30 members of the then-Republican 12 minority, with Senators Espada and Monserrate, 13 intended to vote in that way. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 15 you, Senator. 16 SENATOR DUANE: And finally -- 17 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 18 Duane, are you asking Senator Squadron to 19 yield? 20 SENATOR DUANE: Yes, I am, Madam 21 President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Very 23 good. 24 SENATOR DUANE: You say it so 25 much more succinctly than I do.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 2 you. Would you like to yield, Senator? 3 SENATOR SQUADRON: Yes, thank 4 you. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Go 6 ahead, please. 7 SENATOR DUANE: I'm not sure more 8 correctly, but more succinctly. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 10 you. 11 SENATOR DUANE: So I just want to 12 ask one final time, is it your belief that it 13 would be best for us to move forward with 14 rules that are agreed upon by both sides of 15 the aisle so that they would be less likely to 16 be undone is a better route to follow? And is 17 it also your belief that what we're trying to 18 avoid by putting forward our rules reform now 19 is to deter the regression that would occur if 20 the rules put forward by the other side of the 21 aisle were to be approved today? 22 SENATOR SQUADRON: Through you, 23 Madam President, I think that Senator Duane 24 makes a very, very important point. And that 25 is that when you look at all of the different

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 sorts of dysfunction that this house has been 2 accused of, that certainly during that 31-day 3 stalemate I think we all were chagrined by, 4 the idea that it was impossible or very, very 5 difficult for the two sides of the aisle to 6 work together collaboratively was one of the 7 big challenges. And working together on rules 8 has all the benefits that I talked about in my 9 opening statement on these rules. 10 But the point Senator Duane is 11 making is such an important one, which is the 12 process of generating the rules and doing that 13 in a bipartisan way, doing that in a way that 14 way that puts our ability to work together 15 because we all represent New Yorkers ahead of 16 the sort of old-style partisan bickering is in 17 and of itself an important reform for this 18 house and I think is an important reason to 19 vote for this resolution and was, in fact -- 20 and I thank you for articulating it much more 21 clearly than I was able to -- one of the 22 important reasons that this resolution I'm 23 putting forward today doesn't take everything 24 I would necessarily want to do, everything 25 that was in Senator Krueger's resolution, but

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 actually builds on ideas, builds on rules 2 reforms that were generated on the other side 3 of the aisle. 4 This is not about ramming something 5 down the other side of the aisle or having a 6 conversation here and asking the other side to 7 vote on something they can't vote on, it's 8 about working together on something that both 9 sides of the aisle have previously endorsed 10 and that in fact was generated by the other 11 side. 12 And accepting that process in and 13 of itself, as Senator Duane said, will change 14 the tone of this debate. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 16 you, Senator Squadron. 17 Senator Kruger. 18 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, Madam 19 President -- I apologize. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: The 21 question is on Senator Squadron's amendment to 22 the resolution. All those in favor signify by 23 saying aye. 24 (Response of "Aye.") 25 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: All

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 those opposed signify by saying no. 2 (Response of "No.") 3 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: The 4 amendment is defeated. 5 Senator Breslin. 6 SENATOR BRESLIN: Madam 7 President, I believe there is another 8 amendment at the desk. I ask that the reading 9 be waived and that Senator Serrano be allowed 10 to speak on the amendment. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: The 12 reading is waived, and Senator Serrano can be 13 heard on the amendment. 14 SENATOR SERRANO: Thank you, 15 Madam President. 16 This amendment will call for an 17 equal allocation for each member in this 18 house -- allocations for staff so that we will 19 be able to have adequate staff in our offices 20 both here and in our districts, equal 21 allocation for newsletters and other printed 22 materials, postage, and travel, with 23 exceptions for Senators in leadership 24 positions as well as serving as chairs or 25 ranking committees.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Now, we all know why this is 2 important. I think all of us can agree in a 3 very bipartisan fashion why this is of 4 enormous importance. And very similar to the 5 Congressional model, which I think says 6 regardless of the party that's in power, 7 individual members will be able to represent 8 their constituents in a way that's meaningful. 9 Over the years I've had the good 10 fortune of working with many Senators on both 11 sides of the aisle on issues such as this, 12 issues of reform. I want to thank Senator 13 Bonacic. We've worked together on a number of 14 these issues on the Temporary Committee on 15 Rules Reform as well as, most recently, on 16 creating a C-SPAN type channel for the state 17 to cover our legislative proceedings. 18 These are really good issues, and I 19 want to thank my colleagues for all that 20 they've done to make this a reality and to 21 make our house run better. 22 So again, this is not a partisan 23 discussion, in my mind. This is not something 24 that is Democrat or Republican. This is 25 something I believe that will make this entire

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 house better, that will make our constituents 2 that much more informed of the issues that we 3 care about and the issues that we're working 4 on, and I think will also help to alleviate a 5 lot of the crisis of confidence that we see 6 amongst our constituents throughout the state. 7 Another component of this 8 amendment, I should add, is that it will add a 9 mandatory secondary reference to the Codes 10 Committee that will ensure that if a bill, 11 some sort of legislation has any criminal 12 component to it or criminality component to 13 it, that the bill will get referred to the 14 Codes Committee so that there can be proper 15 deliberation amongst those experts on that 16 issue, on the penalty portion of that bill. 17 So again, my appeal is to members 18 of both sides of the aisle to consider this as 19 a way to make our rules better. There's been 20 a lot of progress over the years, but again, 21 it hasn't gone far enough. I'll be the first 22 to admit that. And I think that this could 23 help us continue to move the ball down the 24 field. So I hope that all of my colleagues 25 join me in supporting this amendment.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Thank you. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 3 you, Senator Serrano. 4 The question is on the amendment to 5 the resolution by Senator Serrano. 6 Senator Breslin, why do you rise? 7 SENATOR BRESLIN: Yes, Madam 8 President. I would request a show of hands on 9 the amendment, please. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 11 Breslin's request is that the members who 12 support this do so by a show of hands. 13 So the question is on Senator 14 Serrano's amendment to the resolution. All 15 those in favor signify by raising their hands. 16 (Members raised their hands.) 17 SENATOR DUANE: Point of 18 clarification, Madam President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Go 20 ahead, Senator Duane. 21 SENATOR DUANE: Madam President, 22 I just want to try to clarify. Under what 23 rules are we operating at this moment? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator, 25 right now we're operating under the temporary

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 rules that were extended earlier this month. 2 SENATOR DUANE: And through you, 3 Madam President, just a further point of 4 clarification. 5 Is it correct that we bipartisanly 6 agreed that we would follow the old rules 7 until midnight? Is it tonight or tomorrow 8 night? I'm not -- I don't know. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator, 10 I do believe that the rules expire on 11 February 1st, so they would expire as of 12 tomorrow. 13 SENATOR DUANE: So tonight at 14 midnight, there would have to be another 15 extension beyond tonight at midnight to go 16 forward, is that -- I ask it with no ulterior 17 motives, just of clarification. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Right. 19 If I could clarify on your behalf. 20 It's my understanding that once 21 these rules pass today, they supersede any 22 kind of rules that were in place until 23 tomorrow. So when we pass these rules, those 24 would be the rules. 25 SENATOR DUANE: You don't mean

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 these, Madam President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: No, but 3 the ones that I believe we will be passing 4 shortly, if we could get to those, will be the 5 ones that will supersede the extension that we 6 passed earlier this year. 7 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Madam 8 President, for your answers and your 9 clairvoyance. 10 (Laughter.) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: The 12 Secretary will announce the results. 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 23. Nays, 14 39. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: The 16 amendment is defeated. 17 Senator Breslin. 18 SENATOR BRESLIN: First, Madam 19 President, could you announce the results in 20 detail, if you would. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: The 22 Secretary will call the roll. 23 SENATOR LIBOUS: Point of order. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 25 Libous.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR LIBOUS: Senator Breslin, 2 I'm sorry, could you be clear in what you're 3 asking for? 4 SENATOR BRESLIN: I would like to 5 know what Senators voted for it. 6 SENATOR LIBOUS: What Senators 7 voted for it? 8 SENATOR BRESLIN: For it. For 9 the amendment. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Those 11 recorded in the affirmative. 12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Would you let 13 Senator Breslin know who voted in the 14 affirmative, please. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: The 16 Secretary will announce those results. 17 THE SECRETARY: Those members 18 recorded in the affirmative on Amendment 19 Number 2 to Resolution 338 are Senators 20 Addabbo, Avella, Breslin, Diaz, Dilan, Duane, 21 Espaillat, Gianaris, Hassell-Thompson, 22 Kennedy, L. Krueger, C. Kruger, Montgomery, 23 Oppenheimer, Parker, Peralta, Perkins, Rivera, 24 Sampson, Serrano, Squadron, Stavisky and 25 Stewart-Cousins.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 2 Breslin. 3 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you, 4 Madam President. 5 I believe there's a final amendment 6 at the desk. I ask that the reading of the 7 amendment be waived and that Senator 8 Stewart-Cousins be allowed to speak on the 9 amendment. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 11 you, Senator Breslin. 12 The reading of the amendment is 13 waived, and I'd like to recognize Senator 14 Stewart-Cousins. 15 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: Thank 16 you, Madam President. 17 This third amendment speaks to I 18 think all of our desire as rank-and-file 19 members to be more effective for our 20 constituents, to be able to bring forth the 21 concerns that they have. And also the second 22 part of this amendment speaks to more 23 transparency and more accountability. 24 And again, I know what this is what 25 we've spent so many of the past few months

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 trying to do. Clearly, the rules reform that 2 Senator Squadron referred to and I was able to 3 share in that rules reform committee with so 4 many of my colleagues on this side of the 5 aisle and across the aisle, in coming up with 6 rules all of which would empower rank-and-file 7 members and which would make things more 8 transparent for the residents of New York. 9 That being said, this amendment 10 will allow any member of a committee to call 11 for a public hearing unless a majority of the 12 committee members say they don't want it. 13 This amendment would also require for the 14 Senate stenographer to keep a transcript of 15 the public hearings. Thirdly, it requires 16 that at least two members of the committee be 17 present in order for the committee to take a 18 testimony at a public hearing. And it also 19 requires prior notice of the public hearing to 20 be formally filed with the Journal Clerk, LRS, 21 and the Temporary President. And such notice 22 shall contain the subject matter, date and 23 place of hearing. That's the public hearing, 24 the transparency part. 25 Also -- which I think is extremely

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 relevant, certainly, to some of the things 2 that have been said over the past few 3 months -- we talk about accountability. And 4 another part of this amendment would require 5 for the Senate budget to be detailed and 6 itemized for inclusion in the legislative and 7 judiciary budget bill. 8 Also, it requires a detailed and 9 itemized inclusion of member items. And I 10 know we're not really talking about member 11 items. But when and if they should happen 12 again, certainly requiring a detailed and 13 itemized inclusion of the member items in the 14 state budget would be helpful. 15 And lastly, it requires detailed 16 and simplified itemization of all 17 appropriations and reappropriations in the 18 revenue and the source of such funds. 19 Again, we've done a lot of good 20 things after having done almost nothing in 21 terms of rules reform. And when we put our 22 heads together, both sides of the aisle, we 23 were able to progress and to make this a more 24 inclusive, a more responsive, a more 25 transparent body. And again, this is why we

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 stand here saying don't go back. 2 And as my colleague Senator 3 Squadron referenced the minority report and 4 talked about the legislators who were part of 5 that report, I can claim no pride of 6 authorship for this particular amendment 7 because this amendment -- prophetically, I 8 imagine, because it was January 12th of 9 2009 -- was put forth by Senator Flanagan. 10 And it was important at that time and 11 continues to be important as we move forward 12 for a more transparent body, a more 13 accountable body, and certainly a body that 14 includes our constituency as we do the 15 business of New York. 16 So of course I would urge my 17 colleagues on both sides of the aisle, again, 18 to adopt this amendment and let's continue our 19 progress. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 21 you, Senator Stewart-Cousins. 22 Senator Carl Kruger would like to 23 speak on the amendment to the resolution. 24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: No, Madam 25 President, I will speak on the actual

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 resolution. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 3 you, Senator. 4 Senator Bonacic. 5 SENATOR BONACIC: I'd like to 6 speak on the original resolution, please. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Okay, 8 thank you. 9 Any other member wishing to be 10 heard? 11 Senator Breslin. 12 SENATOR BRESLIN: No, just again, 13 Madam President, I would request a show of 14 hands on the amendment. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 16 you. 17 The question is on Senator 18 Stewart-Cousins' amendment to the resolution. 19 All those in favor signify by raising your 20 hands. 21 (Members raised hands.) 22 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: The 23 Secretary will announce the results. 24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 23. Nays, 25 39.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: The 2 amendment is defeated. 3 Senator Breslin. 4 SENATOR BRESLIN: Yes, thank you, 5 Madam President. Would you also read the 6 names of the people voting in the affirmative 7 for us, please. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: The 9 Secretary will read. 10 THE SECRETARY: Those Senators 11 recorded in the affirmative on Amendment 3 to 12 Resolution Number 338 are Senators Addabbo, 13 Avella, Breslin, Diaz, Dilan, Duane, 14 Espaillat, Gianaris, Hassell-Thompson, 15 Kennedy, L. Krueger, C. Kruger, Montgomery, 16 Oppenheimer, Parker, Peralta, Perkins, Rivera, 17 Sampson, Serrano, Squadron, Stavisky and 18 Stewart-Cousins. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: The 20 amendment is defeated. 21 The resolution is before the house. 22 All those in favor signify by saying aye. 23 (Response of "Aye.") 24 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Opposed, 25 nay.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 (Response of "Nay.") 2 SENATOR SQUADRON: Excuse me, 3 Madam President. I believe Senator Kruger was 4 wanting to speak on the resolution before the 5 vote was called. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Oh, 7 that's right. 8 Excuse me, Senator Kruger. Go 9 ahead. 10 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you 11 very much, Madam President. 12 I see that Senator Skelos is not in 13 the chamber. Who would I address my question 14 to? 15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Senator Kruger, 16 it would be indeed an honor for me -- 17 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: I'm sure it 18 would. I'm sure it would. 19 SENATOR LIBOUS: -- to try, and 20 only try, to address your questions. 21 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: And I'll 22 try to keep mine as simple as I can put 23 through my old head. 24 When we're talking about rules 25 changes in this resolution, what to me seems a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 glaring deviation is the question of the 2 powers of the Lieutenant Governor in this 3 chamber, and as the Lieutenant Governor -- of 4 western New York, a Democrat -- would be sort 5 of stripped of his right to cast a deciding 6 vote. How come? 7 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President, 8 through you. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Yes, 10 Senator. 11 SENATOR LIBOUS: First of all, 12 Senator Kruger, as I answer your question I 13 would prefer not to talk about the personality 14 but talk about the position. I think it's not 15 fair to talk about any individual man or woman 16 who may or may not be Lieutenant Governor. 17 Let's talk about the position. Our 18 position is pretty clear that we believe there 19 are 62 elected Senators in this chamber and 20 that in order to pick a Majority Leader and 21 Temporary President, that the 62 elected 22 Senators should have a right to do that. And 23 that the Lieutenant Governor, who runs with a 24 Governor or whomever is elected Governor, is 25 not an elected Senator. Therefore, we don't

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 believe -- and we believe the Constitution 2 backs us up -- that that position has a vote 3 to elect a leader. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 5 you, Senator Libous. 6 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Again, 7 through you, Madam President, if the Senator 8 would continue to yield. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 10 Libous? 11 SENATOR LIBOUS: I'd be happy to. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 13 you. 14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: If we want 15 to extend that logic a little further down the 16 road, so now we're in a position where we have 17 31-31 as a tie vote. What's the process? 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President, 19 through you, I think the process is pretty 20 simple, is that this body would have to 21 collectively get together and function. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 23 Kruger. 24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Again 25 through you, Madam President, if the Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 would continue to yield. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 3 Libous, do you yield? 4 SENATOR LIBOUS: I will continue 5 to yield, yes. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 7 you, Senator. 8 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Senator, 9 how would we elect the leadership of the 10 house? 11 SENATOR LIBOUS: Well, I think, 12 Madam President -- 13 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Yes, 14 Senator. 15 SENATOR LIBOUS: -- I think that 16 would depend on the situation. Obviously if 17 we had elected a leader, and if some for some 18 reason we went to 31-31, the person that we 19 had elected would still be the leader, because 20 to elect a new leader you would need 32 votes. 21 I think that's pretty simple. 22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Again 23 through you, Madam President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Yes, 25 Senator Kruger.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Senator Libous, do you yield? 2 SENATOR LIBOUS: Yes, Madam 3 President, I do. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 5 you, Senator Libous. 6 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Rather than 7 talking about, Senator, the hypothetical 8 situation of an interim election, let's talk 9 about the absolute, the reorganization or the 10 organization of the chamber in a 31-31 11 environment. How do we elect the leadership? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 13 Kruger, excuse me. The stenographer cannot 14 hear what you're saying. 15 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Oh, I'm 16 sorry. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: So we 18 would ask that you direct your comments to the 19 chair, and that way your microphone will pick 20 those up. It's very important that we hear 21 you. 22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: I 23 apologize. I apologize. Okay. 24 SENATOR LIBOUS: Possibly, Madam 25 President, you could do it with 31 Republicans

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 and some independent legislators who might 2 want to join you. Or 31 Democrats and some 3 independent legislators who would want to join 4 you. 5 I mean, I think -- Madam President, 6 through you, I think there seems to be this 7 speculation that the body cannot function at 8 31-31. And I think we disagree with that. 9 Obviously, if you elect a leader with 32 10 votes, that person will remain as leader until 11 there's another vote where 32 individuals that 12 make up this chamber -- and I'm talking about 13 elected Senators -- would vote again. And it 14 seems pretty simple and matter of fact. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 16 you, Senator Libous. 17 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you, 18 Senator. 19 Again through you, Madam President, 20 if the Senator would continue to yield. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Yes, 22 Senator Kruger. 23 Do you yield, Senator Libous? 24 SENATOR LIBOUS: I would be happy 25 to continue to yield.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Go 2 ahead, Senator Kruger. 3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: For a 4 moment, let's not talk about the hypothetical, 5 let's talk about -- let's go to past history 6 and talk about the realities. 7 There came a moment in time when 8 this chamber was 31-31, last June. How come 9 we couldn't function then? 10 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President, 11 I think I can answer that question. 12 Actually, Senator Kruger, there 13 were 30 Republicans and 32 Democrats at that 14 time. And for a brief moment, two of the 15 Democrats decided that they wanted to become 16 Republicans. But that was only for a brief 17 moment. So there were still 32 Democrats in 18 power that were controlling the chamber at 19 that time. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 21 you, Senator. 22 Senator Kruger. 23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Again 24 through you, Madam President, if the Senator 25 would continue to yield.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Will you 2 yield, Senator? 3 SENATOR LIBOUS: I'd be happy to. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Go 5 ahead, please. 6 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Just for 7 historical purposes, there was a time, 8 Senator, where then-Senator Monserrate 9 rejoined the Democratic conference, which 10 created 31-31. And we -- and this body did 11 not function, by your definition. How come? 12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Well, Madam 13 President, I mean I don't want to -- I'm not a 14 historian. And I don't want to go back in 15 history, but I will try to do so to answer 16 Senator Kruger's question. 17 I believe, when it was 31-31, it 18 was the controlling party, the Democratic 19 Party, that locked the doors of the chamber 20 and would not let this body function. Now, 21 having said that, I don't want to repeat 22 history here. Senator Kruger, what finally 23 happened, obviously, is that 32 members got 24 together and this Senate began to function. 25 Again, I would state as I said

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 earlier, very simply, that the Lieutenant 2 Governor is not an elected Senator. The 3 position of Lieutenant Governor should not 4 have a vote in electing a leader to the 5 Senate. It is incumbent upon the 62 members 6 of this house to get along and figure it out, 7 if indeed there ever was a tie. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 9 Kruger. 10 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, Madam 11 President. If the Senator would continue to 12 yield. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 14 Libous, do you yield? 15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Sure. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 17 you very much. 18 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Senator 19 Libous, how do you feel or think or propose 20 the constitutional issue on the role of the 21 Lieutenant Governor in casting a tie vote in 22 this chamber relates to the resolution as 23 proposed? 24 SENATOR LIBOUS: Well, Madam 25 President, I have my own opinion on that, and

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 I think I've given it several times. But I am 2 going to ask at this point, because I think 3 when you get into the constitutional issue 4 itself -- I believe the answer that I gave is 5 a sound one. 6 And like what always happens in 7 government, if you pass legislation and 8 someone deems that it's unconstitutional, you 9 take it to the court system. Just as when the 10 Democrats in this body were not happy with the 11 fact that Richard Ravitz was going to get 12 appointed, there was a lot of maneuvering 13 around who they decided who the president and 14 the temporary president and the conference 15 leader was going to be. 16 Having said that -- 17 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 18 Saland, why do you rise? 19 SENATOR SALAND: I'm wondering if 20 Senator Libous might yield some time to me and 21 perhaps I might be able to respond, in part, 22 to Senator Kruger. 23 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President, 24 I would be honored to defer to Senator Saland, 25 who might be able to go further than I have on

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 the constitutional issue. 2 Thank you, Senator. 3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Like 4 championship tag-team wrestling. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 6 Kruger was asking a question of Senator 7 Libous. Senator Saland, you're going to 8 answer that question? 9 SENATOR SALAND: I will, with 10 your permission, Madam President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 12 you very much. 13 SENATOR SALAND: If I may, before 14 I get to the Constitution and the 15 constitutional issues, let me say that a 16 deadlocked house, were this house deadlocked, 17 would not be a case of first instance. It has 18 occurred in numerous legislative chambers 19 throughout this country at varying and 20 different times. 21 And it's been resolved in varying 22 and different ways. More often than not, by 23 interaction between the legislators, either a 24 division of responsibility of power -- by 25 year, perhaps. Sometimes coalitions are

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 formed, where people from one side of the 2 aisle join people from the other side of the 3 aisle in forging a majority. So this is not 4 the first time something like that would be 5 capable of happening. 6 There were a couple of things that 7 were mentioned, one earlier by Senator 8 Squadron and one by you, Senator Kruger. I 9 think Senator Squadron said something to the 10 effect of "I think the Lieutenant Governor 11 clause is unconstitutional and 12 unconscionable." 13 I would beg to differ. I would say 14 that it's both constitutional and the only 15 thing that would be unconscionable would be to 16 permit somebody who is a member of, in effect, 17 the executive branch to have the authority to 18 pick a leader in this house. And it would be 19 even more unconscionable now that the Court of 20 Appeals has ruled that you can have a 21 Lieutenant Governor who's not even elected but 22 appointed and has never been through a 23 confirmation process. 24 And it is not, as you described, 25 stripping his right to cast a deciding vote.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 He doesn't have a right to cast a deciding 2 vote. The Constitution uses a particular 3 word. It's a casting vote. And there is no 4 dispute whatsoever anywhere, by any authority 5 anyplace to be found in this state, currently 6 or previously, that says he has a right to 7 cast a vote in anything legislative. 8 And if you disagree with that, 9 please tell me that you do and we'll engage on 10 that, with the permission of the President, 11 and then I'll continue my remarks with regard 12 to what the two relevant provisions of the 13 Constitution say. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 15 you, Senator Saland. 16 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 17 you, Madam President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 19 Kruger, are you asking Senator Saland to 20 yield? 21 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: I'm 22 responding to Senator Saland, through you. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Okay. 24 Very good, Senator. 25 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: No, I was

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 not raising the issue of a casting vote, I was 2 talking about a tie vote. And to clarify that 3 even further, not on legislation but rather on 4 organization. 5 SENATOR SALAND: So we agree that 6 the Lieutenant Governor, whomever he or she 7 may be, doesn't have the authority to cast a 8 vote in the event of a tie on legislation. 9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: That's 10 without question. 11 SENATOR SALAND: Let me, if I 12 may, go through the two relevant sections. 13 Madam President, if I may, the two relevant 14 sections are Article 3, Section 9 and Article 15 4, Section 6. 16 And Article 3, Section 9 basically 17 says that each house shall determine the rules 18 of its own proceedings, the qualifications of 19 its members, and shall choose its own officers 20 and the Senate shall choose a Temporary 21 President. 22 Now, I don't think that can be 23 disputed that we have the ability to do that. 24 That certainly was ruled on most recently in 25 the Monserrate case by the federal court. It

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 in effect has been enshrined in New York law 2 for over 130 years. 3 There was a Court of Appeals case, 4 I think it was People v. Hall back in 1880, 5 which basically cited the very language that 6 we have now and went on to say that this was 7 well within the realm of the Legislature to 8 determine the qualifications of its members. 9 And interestingly enough, it caused enough 10 controversy that in 1892 there was a 11 constitutional amendment that went to the 12 people proposing to do away with that section, 13 and it was defeated by the people. 14 So would we agree -- through you, 15 Madam President, would we agree that there's 16 no dispute as to the right of this house to 17 select the qualifications of its own members, 18 that nobody is being disenfranchised by giving 19 this house the right that has been recognized 20 for minimally 130-plus years? 21 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 22 you, Madam President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 24 Kruger. 25 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: In my mind,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 that's when they're elected and they're 2 seated, as opposed to what we're talking 3 about. 4 SENATOR SALAND: Please -- if 5 he'll continue to yield. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Yes, 7 Senator Saland. Go ahead. 8 SENATOR SALAND: Would you please 9 share with me your distinction? 10 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 11 you, Madam President. I guess, Senator, when 12 I started this dialogue it was my intention to 13 raise issue with the election of leadership 14 for the chamber, rather than talking about the 15 qualification of seating of elected members. 16 SENATOR SALAND: If Senator 17 Kruger will yield. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 19 Kruger, will you yield? 20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, Madam 21 President. 22 SENATOR SALAND: Is the 23 Lieutenant Governor a member of the Senate? 24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 25 you, Madam President, it's my understanding --

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 and the Lieutenant Governor is obviously not 2 an elected member of the Senate. However, he 3 serves as the President. 4 SENATOR SALAND: So when this 5 section -- and I'll get to Article 4, Section 6 6 momentarily. When this section says each 7 house shall determine the rules of its own 8 proceedings, shall choose its own officers, 9 and the Senate, the Senate, shall choose a 10 Temporary President -- the Senate -- is the 11 Lieutenant Governor a member of the Senate or 12 is he a Senator? 13 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 14 you, Madam President, we go back to the theory 15 of the 31-31 rationale. In that environment, 16 if we are to function, then the use of the 17 President of the Senate -- the Lieutenant 18 Governor -- to break that tie would be, in my 19 mind, and I believe in the shared belief of my 20 colleagues on this side of the aisle at least, 21 that that would be the appropriate mechanism. 22 SENATOR SALAND: If you'll 23 continue to yield, Senator Kruger, let me go 24 to Article 4, Section 6, and then perhaps 25 we'll revisit Article 3, Section 9.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Article 4, Section 6 takes great 2 pains to include two terms or words that limit 3 or minimize the role of Lieutenant Governor. 4 After it talks about the Lieutenant Governor 5 possessing the qualifications and eligibility 6 for offices of the Governor, it says he shall 7 be the president of the Senate but shall have 8 only -- and I emphasize the word "only" -- a 9 casting vote therein. And I emphasize the 10 word "therein." 11 So these would appear to be words 12 of limitation or minimization, clearly making 13 it a very limited role for the Lieutenant 14 Governor. 15 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 16 you, Madam President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 18 Kruger. 19 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: During that 20 period in time when -- 21 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 22 Kruger -- 23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 24 you, Madam President. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Again, I

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 know it's difficult, but we just -- 2 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: I 3 understand. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: What you 5 have to say is very important, and we want to 6 make sure that everyone can hear it. 7 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: It may be 8 important to you; I don't know if it's 9 important to everybody. 10 But in any event, if the Senator 11 would continue to yield. 12 SENATOR SALAND: I'll be more 13 than happy to yield after you respond to me. 14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Okay. In 15 each instance that we're talking about, this 16 body, when we have issues of procedure, we go 17 to the books, as you're doing right now. One 18 of those books that we go to is Mason's. And 19 in that litany, it clearly defines the vote of 20 the President in terms of breaking a tie. 21 If I can just clarify additionally, 22 as counsel points out to me, that the 23 definition of a casting vote is the vote that 24 breaks the tie. 25 SENATOR SALAND: If Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Kruger would continue to yield. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Do you 3 yield, Senator? 4 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, Madam 5 President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Go 7 ahead, Senator Saland. 8 SENATOR SALAND: Senator Kruger, 9 is it not in fact the rules of this house that 10 you never reach Mason's unless, in fact, 11 there's nothing -- the only time you reach 12 Mason's is if there's nothing that governs in 13 the existing law or the existing practice? 14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 15 you, Madam President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Yes, 17 Senator. 18 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: It's my 19 understanding that the Constitution does not 20 define a casting vote. So consequently, we 21 would have to go to Mason's. After the rules, 22 after we kick the can down the road, we wind 23 up at Mason's. 24 SENATOR SALAND: I would 25 respectfully beg to differ with you. Let me

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 share with you historically what has occurred 2 where controversy has existed with regard to 3 the ability of a Lieutenant Governor to 4 exercise a casting vote. 5 The New York Times, in its 6 January 1, 1892 issue, reported on a similar 7 controversy. And there was a dispute about 8 organizing the Senate -- it was an election 9 dispute -- and the Democrats at that point 10 alleged that the Lieutenant Governor could 11 break a tie. 12 And the Republican position was 13 that the Constitution, the relevant section -- 14 which is the one that we're talking about now, 15 which was numbered differently at that time -- 16 stating that the Lieutenant Governor had only 17 a casting vote therein, meant that the vote on 18 the eligibility of a Senator or any other 19 question other than of a parliamentary nature, 20 as one which involved the advancement of 21 business, was held beyond the powers of the 22 Lieutenant Governor. The Lieutenant Governor 23 had no authority whatsoever to cast such a 24 vote. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Kruger. 2 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Once again, 3 Madam President, through you, in responding, 4 are we now using the New York Times of 1892 as 5 the basis for today's dialogue? 6 SENATOR SALAND: I'm merely 7 telling you, based on prior experience, prior 8 actions in this house as reported by the 9 New York Times. 10 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: So now if 11 we can refer to the New York Times of 1892, 12 through you, Madam President, I suspect that 13 that was the Republican position as it was 14 articulated in that article. That was a 15 little bit before I was born, that edition of 16 the paper, so I wasn't up to snuff at that 17 moment. 18 SENATOR SALAND: Well, again, 19 there was a similar issue that occurred in 20 1878, and again similarly reported that the 21 Lieutenant Governor similarly did not have the 22 ability to cast a vote that in effect would 23 have enabled him to be the controlling vote 24 for purposes of establishing the leadership of 25 the house.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 2 Kruger. 3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 4 you, Madam President. I'm advised that the 5 legislatures in both Montana and Idaho made 6 determinations that their presiding officer, 7 the lieutenant governor, could cast that 8 deciding vote, that leadership vote, and 9 citing New York law as the basis for that. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 11 Saland. 12 SENATOR SALAND: I believe the 13 distinction with respect to both of those 14 states is that both of those states permit 15 their lieutenant governors to cast deciding 16 votes on legislation as well. And that 17 underscored the ability of that particular or 18 those particular legislatures to respond as 19 you claim that they have responded. 20 But you've failed to acknowledge 21 the fact that there are other states that very 22 similarly do not permit the lieutenant 23 governor to cast such a vote. 24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 25 you, Madam President. Once again, just to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 reiterate, that those states -- and I'm not 2 aware -- and there may be others that 3 specifically used New York law as the basis 4 for making that determination. 5 SENATOR SALAND: I find that to 6 be -- I'm sorry, Madam President. Madam 7 President, I suspect that what we are engaged 8 in is a little bit of cherry-picking, that in 9 fact the totality of what we're dealing with, 10 the sections that we are dealing with are not 11 necessarily consistent with what Senator 12 Kruger is attempting to convey to us here. 13 It is certainly clear that the 14 state apparently, as reported by none other 15 than the lion of the print media, has in prior 16 instances -- this Legislature in prior 17 instances has said that the Lieutenant 18 Governor's casting vote certainly did not 19 permit him, and to date it has been a -- well, 20 it hasn't always been a him -- him or her to 21 have the authority that we would now be told 22 by Senator Kruger that we're weaving 23 apparently out of thin air. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 25 Kruger.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 2 you, Madam President. Senator, when I rose to 3 speak on the -- 4 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President, 5 point of order for a second, please. And 6 please indulge me, both speakers. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Yes, 8 Senator Libous. 9 SENATOR LIBOUS: This is a 10 resolution in which the Senate requires that 11 there's an hour to have debate. And I know 12 that there are other and I just want to bring 13 it to the attention of the house that there 14 are other speakers on both sides of the aisle, 15 or individuals who would like to speak. 16 And I just wouldn't want Senator 17 Kruger and Senator Saland to take up -- 18 seriously, to take up their time, because 19 everybody -- others want to be heard on this 20 issue. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 22 Libous, you are totally right. And present 23 rules say the debates on motions or 24 resolutions is limited to one half-hour per 25 side.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 So if you could take that into 2 consideration, Senator. 3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Senator 4 Saland, when I rose on this resolution, I 5 wanted to keep it in very simplistic terms. 6 Where we have 62 members in this body, there 7 could come a time -- as it has -- where we 8 have a 31-31 standoff. We have a Lieutenant 9 Governor that's elected by the people of this 10 state with specific responsibilities. 11 My question to you is, do we want 12 to go back to where we were in June of two 13 years ago or a year ago and talk about the 14 Senate as it was? Or do we want to have a 15 very transparent, simple, straightforward 16 process where we have a 31-31 standoff and 17 have the Lieutenant Governor cast that 18 deciding vote? Is that a bad thing or is that 19 a good thing? 20 SENATOR SALAND: I would think, 21 regardless of which party, the separation of 22 powers and the importance of maintaining this 23 chamber -- and, for that matter, the other 24 chamber -- as a separate and distinct entity 25 and not an arm of the executive branch, I

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 would say very clearly that's a bad thing. 2 The Lieutenant Governor is not a 3 member of the Senate and I would say would be 4 precluded, under Article 3, Section 9, from 5 participating in the election of its officers. 6 The Lieutenant Governor is permitted to vote 7 on procedural issues. The election of a 8 Temporary President is anything but a 9 procedural issue. 10 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Madam 11 President, to sum up on the resolution. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 13 Kruger on the resolution. 14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: The 15 Constitution allows the Lieutenant Governor to 16 come in on a 31-31 logjam to cast that vote to 17 break that tie so that this body can go 18 forward doing its job. To treat the process 19 in any other way is only trying to add 20 confusion, delay, and basically put the courts 21 in the position to once again decide how we 22 function, rather than allow this house, 23 through its President, the Lieutenant 24 Governor, to decide the leadership as we would 25 go forward in a 31-31 environment.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Thank you. Thank you, 2 Senator Saland. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 4 you. 5 SENATOR SALAND: May I close? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 7 Saland, why do you rise? 8 SENATOR SALAND: May I just offer 9 some concluding remarks? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Would 11 you like to speak on the resolution? 12 SENATOR SALAND: Yes. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Okay. 14 Go ahead, Senator. 15 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you. 16 Madam President, the Lieutenant 17 Governor is not a member of the Senate. There 18 is no precedent that provides him or her the 19 ability to cast a vote other than on 20 procedural matters. The election of a leader, 21 a Temporary President of the Senate and 22 Majority Leader, is far from a procedural 23 matter. 24 SENATOR SQUADRON: Madam 25 President.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 2 Squadron, why do you rise? 3 SENATOR SQUADRON: Would Senator 4 Saland yield for a brief question? I 5 apologize for cutting off the conclusion, 6 but -- 7 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Again, 8 Senator, I would like to remind all the 9 Senators that we need to be considerate of 10 other Senators who want to speak. 11 SENATOR SQUADRON: I will be very 12 brief. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Go 14 ahead, Senator Squadron. 15 SENATOR SQUADRON: Senator 16 Saland, do you yield for a question? 17 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, I will. 18 SENATOR SQUADRON: Senator Saland 19 has made a case -- I don't believe it's a 20 compelling case, but has made a case that the 21 Lieutenant Governor doesn't now and has never 22 had any role in terms of a casting vote in the 23 Senate, despite the constitutional language. 24 And I would just ask Senator Saland what's 25 changed.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR SALAND: That's -- with 2 all due respect, I'll answer the question by 3 saying that's not what I said. I said he has 4 a casting vote, but the language is only a 5 casting vote therein. And the language is 6 such that his role or her role is very limited 7 and can only cast that vote on matters of 8 process. 9 And there is no authority, no case 10 law to the contrary, and there is nothing that 11 makes him a member of this body. He in fact 12 is not a member of the Senate. And if you go 13 back to Article 3, Section 9, each house shall 14 determine the rules of its own proceedings. 15 This house can determine those rules and is 16 proposing to do it with this very proposal. 17 SENATOR SQUADRON: Through you, 18 Madam President, if -- 19 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 20 Squadron, are you asking Senator Saland to 21 yield? 22 SENATOR SQUADRON: If Senator 23 Saland will yield again, yes. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Do you 25 yield, Senator?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR SALAND: I will. But 2 then I think I've overstayed my welcome. 3 SENATOR SQUADRON: I'll ask one 4 question with multiple parts, very briefly, in 5 the interests of time. 6 I believe Senator Saland -- and he 7 should correct me if at any point I'm wrong -- 8 has been in this body for 24 years, has voted 9 for certainly 13 rules resolutions in that 10 time. I believe this is the first rules 11 resolution with this provision. Senator 12 Saland does seem to be building quite a case 13 for court. And certainly if this provision 14 passes, goodness knows we're all too likely to 15 end up in court at some point. 16 I would just ask what compels 17 Senator Saland to so heartily defend this 18 provision and this change at this moment in 19 history. Might it to be that we're at 32-30 20 with a Democratic Lieutenant Governor? That's 21 my final question. 22 Thank you, Madam President. 23 SENATOR SALAND: It's rather 24 basic. It's called separation of powers and 25 the right of this institution, through its

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 members, to make the decisions as to who shall 2 constitute its leadership and not abdicate 3 that responsibility to another branch of 4 government. 5 Thank you. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 7 Breslin, on the resolution. 8 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you very 9 much, Madam President. 10 As all of you know, the 11 Constitution of New York State was 1777. 12 That's over 200 years ago. And in Article 4, 13 Section 6 it talks about the Lieutenant 14 Governor giving the casting vote. It does say 15 "therein," "casting vote therein." 16 There's other sections that say the 17 Lieutenant Governor doesn't have a vote on 18 legislation, on bills. He does, in fact, have 19 the vote on a tie in this house. 20 That's over 200 years ago. The 21 Federal Constitution, which relied in part on 22 the New York State Constitution, was developed 23 some years later. And there are courts across 24 this country that have used our Constitution. 25 Idaho, which was referred to before,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 specifically used New York State as an example 2 in a similar situation. 3 That's the law, in my opinion. The 4 facts, for 200 years, no one's bothered to 5 change this. And we don't want to get into 6 individuals, but it is probably coincidental 7 that we happen to have a Democratic Lieutenant 8 Governor, one from upstate who's an 9 outstanding leader from upstate. And we went 10 through years, my years here, when we had 11 Lieutenant Governors who were of the other 12 party, and there was no attempt to change 13 this. 14 I think it's a blatant attempt to 15 try to write the Constitution of the State of 16 New York. And I think that it's recognized 17 that -- when I asked questions in the Rules 18 Committee, there was no attempt to contact the 19 Governor or the Attorney General or the 20 Lieutenant Governor or constitutional experts, 21 for that matter. 22 I think there's a very important 23 reason why that hasn't been done. It is that 24 the words of Article 4, Section 6 are clear 25 enough for this body to recognize that when

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 there is a tie for the choice of the President 2 of this body, the casting vote is done by the 3 Lieutenant Governor. 4 Thank you, Madam President. And I 5 will vote against this resolution on the rules 6 changes. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 8 you, Senator Breslin. 9 Senator Liz Krueger. 10 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 11 Madam President. On the resolution. 12 So I have listened to the 13 discussion and even the debate going on 14 tonight, and there seems to be a little bit of 15 confusion over what we're arguing about 16 vis-a-vis the one section of the new rules 17 being proposed tonight by Senator Skelos and 18 how it violates or doesn't violate the intent 19 of the New York State Constitution and the 20 language of the New York State Constitution. 21 So just to go backwards a week, in 22 the Rules Committee on January 25th when I was 23 making the supposition that this was 24 complicated and that we should have a few 25 minutes or days to review with constitutional

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 scholars, and I suggested we not have this 2 rules debate last week, Senator Libous 3 confirmed that the intent behind the change to 4 Senate Rule 2, Section 1 sought to leave the 5 vote for Temporary President exclusively to 6 members of the Senate. 7 From the transcript. Myself: Is 8 it possible that this rule possibly changes 9 the role of the Lieutenant Governor vis-a-vis 10 tie-breaking votes? Senator Libous: Yes, it 11 require's a vote of 32. Senator Liz Krueger: 12 So it would require the vote of 32 in a 31-31 13 situation in the Senate? Senator Libous: We 14 believe that only members should break the tie 15 in a vote for President of the Senate. 16 So in fact we are arguing about the 17 role of the Lieutenant Governor in a casting 18 vote issue on procedure and whether the rules 19 resolution being submitted to us tonight is in 20 violation of the Constitution. 21 And I would argue that it is. That 22 the State Constitution and the current Senate 23 rules are clear that the Lieutenant Governor 24 shall be the President of the Senate but shall 25 have only a casting vote therein -- New York

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 State Constitution, Article 4, Section 6, and 2 current Senate Rule 1, Section 1, current 3 rules being the ones we're using tonight until 4 or if we change them with this resolution 5 tonight. A casting vote is defined many, many 6 places -- Mason's manual, our Constitution, 7 Black's Law Dictionary -- as a casting vote is 8 a deciding vote by the President, presiding 9 officer of a deliberative body, in case of a 10 tie. 11 The only specific constitutional 12 limitation on the Lieutenant Governor's 13 casting of a vote is found in Article 3, 14 Section 14, which provides that no bill can be 15 passed or become law except by the assent of a 16 majority of members elected to each branch of 17 the Legislature. 18 Most constitutional scholars agree 19 this provision prohibits the Lieutenant 20 Governor to use his casting vote on 21 legislation. But again, I don't believe I've 22 heard any colleagues on this side of the aisle 23 saying we want to recognize the Lieutenant 24 Governor's casting vote on legislation. We 25 want to assure his constitutionally

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 established right to have a casting vote on 2 procedure of the floor of the Senate, 3 including the decision over who ends up the 4 President or Majority Leader of the Senate in 5 situations where it may be 31-31. 6 And any number of my colleagues 7 have referenced the fact that the history of 8 this portion of our State Constitution goes 9 back to the 1700s. And in fact, Alexander 10 Hamilton, a great New Yorker who was a 11 delegate to the U.S. Constitutional 12 Convention, established the purpose and intent 13 of the role of a President outside of being an 14 elected member of the Senate, and the reason 15 that we ought to have a situation where a 16 casting vote can be assured, in his Federalist 17 Papers. 18 And in fact, in the Federalist 19 Paper Number 68, he explained the necessity of 20 a vice president in the Senate position: "To 21 secure definitive resolutions, the Senate 22 President must be able to cast tie-breaking 23 votes yet be denied a vote at all other times. 24 Therefore, the Senate's presiding officer must 25 not be a member of the Senate. Nor should a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Senator be next in line for the presidency, 2 since the President's successor shall be 3 chosen in the same manner as the President." 4 Now, he was referencing the U.S. 5 Constitution, but he was in fact taking his 6 recommendations and applying them through 7 state constitutions as well as the Federal 8 Constitution. 9 Now, there have been debates 10 throughout history, in the 1700s, in the 11 1800s, in the 1900s, and a number of them have 12 been cited here tonight around the issue of 13 who can vote to split a tie when. But I don't 14 believe, Madam President, there is any debate 15 on the powers of the Lieutenant Governor to be 16 a casting vote, to split a tie on procedural 17 issues here on the floor. This is a 18 fundamental interpretation of our Constitution 19 that we should not allow to go into the rules 20 of our Senate without assurance that they are 21 not intended to violate the Constitution. 22 I cannot vote for these rules 23 tonight because we have seen in recent 24 history, and it has been discussed already, 25 that sometimes you may end up in a tie. You

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 may end up in a tie that it's uncomfortable 2 for everyone, everyone on both sides of the 3 aisle. 4 But it is critical because of that 5 reality that we not violate our Constitution. 6 And we should not forget the lessons of our 7 Founding Fathers when they were creating our 8 the U.S. Constitution to recognize the 9 importance of having a mechanism in place to 10 ensure the civil discourse and continuity of 11 government. 12 And so it's a lot of debate, it's a 13 lot of time spent here, which is a good place 14 to have this debate, on the floor. One of my 15 colleagues also referenced, Well, let's say we 16 put it in the rules of the Senate and we end 17 up in a 31-31 situation, we'll then go and 18 litigate it. Well, we do litigate an awful 19 lot of things, ladies and gentlemen. And I 20 suppose you could argue, because we are the 21 creators of laws, it's appropriate for much of 22 what we do here to end up being the fodder and 23 discussion of courts. 24 But I would argue we don't want to 25 knowingly set ourselves up to have to have a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 constitutional dispute through the courts at a 2 time where we might find ourselves in a 31-31 3 situation. 4 While we've been here this 5 afternoon and this evening, according to the 6 press, Lieutenant Governor Duffy has said he 7 intends to vote, if there's a tie situation. 8 He will use his casting vote authority. 9 Governor Cuomo has said he does not agree with 10 these proposed rules. He is clear that it is 11 the constitutional authority of the Lieutenant 12 Governor to use his casting vote to split a 13 tie in situations that we are describing 14 tonight. 15 Yes, we can wait and litigate the 16 whole situation if and when we are in a tie 17 situation. But I would have to argue with all 18 my colleagues it would be far, far better for 19 us not to make this mistake, not to write 20 rules of the Senate that we know not only are 21 a violation of the explicit language of the 22 Constitution but set us up to be forced into a 23 constitutional-challenge lawsuit if and when a 24 time comes. 25 We've not needed to put this

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 language in the rules of the Senate ever 2 before. Not having this language in the rules 3 of the Senate hasn't seemingly done us harm 4 for hundreds of years. So I suppose in urging 5 us to not accept the rules as written, and 6 certainly to remove this section of the rules 7 before we move forward, we ask ourselves the 8 question why do we need to open ourselves to 9 this problem. 10 Our Constitution is clear. It has 11 protected us for hundreds of years. There's 12 no reason to mess with it here on the floor of 13 the Senate tonight. I urge my colleagues to 14 vote no. 15 Thank you, Madam President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 17 you, Senator Krueger. 18 Senator Diaz. 19 SENATOR DIAZ: Thank you, Madam 20 President. 21 Madam President, would Senator 22 Libous yield for a question or two, please. 23 SENATOR LIBOUS: I'm sorry, 24 Senator Diaz, you would like me to yield? 25 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes, sir.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Oh, I'm 2 sorry. Would you yield, Senator Libous? 3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Sure. Sure. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Go 5 ahead, Senator Diaz. 6 SENATOR DIAZ: Yeah. Thank you. 7 Senator Libous, more than once 8 tonight, various people, various Senators have 9 mentioned the names of Monserrate and Espada, 10 those times. And you said that we are 62 11 members in this chamber. For the benefit of 12 those that are viewing and listening to the 13 TV, would you please tell me, out of those 62 14 Senators, how many are registered Democrats 15 and how many are registered Republicans? 16 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 17 Libous. 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: I believe there 19 are 32 registered Republicans and 30 20 registered Democrats at the present time, 21 Senator. 22 SENATOR DIAZ: Would Senator 23 Libous yield. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 25 Libous, would you continue to yield?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR LIBOUS: Yeah, I would. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Go 3 ahead, Senator Diaz. 4 SENATOR DIAZ: Senator Libous, 5 I'm going to ask my question again. Are you 6 sure that there are 32 registered Democrats 7 and not 31? 8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Mr. President, I 9 don't have the Board of Election buff cards in 10 front of me, but I believe there are 32 11 registered Republicans and 30 registered 12 Democrats in this chamber. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 14 Diaz. 15 SENATOR DIAZ: Madam President, 16 would Senator Libous continue to yield? 17 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator, 18 do you yield? 19 SENATOR LIBOUS: Sure. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Go 21 ahead, Senator Diaz. 22 SENATOR DIAZ: Senator Libous, 23 according to my knowledge -- maybe I'm wrong, 24 but would you please clarify for me this. I 25 understand that Senator Grisanti, from

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Buffalo, is a registered Democrat. I 2 understand that Senator Valesky is Democrat. 3 I understand that Senator Jeff Klein -- 4 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President, 5 in all due respect to Senator -- 6 SENATOR DIAZ: Could you please 7 let me finish? I have the floor. 8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Well, in all due 9 respect, I don't know if this is germane to 10 the rules. 11 SENATOR DIAZ: It is. It is. 12 Because when I finish it, you will see it is. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Point of 14 order. 15 SENATOR DIAZ: So -- 16 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 17 Diaz, could you please keep your remarks to 18 the germaneness of the -- 19 SENATOR DIAZ: All right. My 20 question is, the -- Madam President, we are 21 deciding here the fate of the Lieutenant 22 Governor in this chamber, that in any given 23 time the Lieutenant Governor could decide who 24 keeps the majority or who goes into the 25 minority. And what I'm saying is that right

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 now this chamber has 31 Democrats and 31 2 Republicans. 3 Now, Senator -- Senator, I'm 4 speaking -- I'm addressing myself on the 5 resolution now. Okay? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: So you'd 7 like to speak on the resolution? 8 SENATOR DIAZ: Yeah. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 10 you, Senator. Go ahead. 11 SENATOR DIAZ: So Senator Saland 12 spoke about disenfranchising voters or that 13 we're going to disenfranchise, something like 14 that he said. 15 Now I'm saying that right now we 16 have 31 registered Republicans in this 17 chamber, on this floor, and 31 Democrats. 18 Let's assume, Madam President and ladies and 19 gentlemen, let's assume that those five 20 registered Democrats that are voting with you 21 now in any given time decide, okay, we are not 22 going to disenfranchise the Democratic voters 23 that elected us and we're going to become 24 Democrats again. 25 So that means that then the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Democrat Lieutenant Governor will be the one 2 that will decide who is going to be in the 3 majority. If those five Democrats -- the one 4 from Buffalo, Grisanti, Senator Klein, Senator 5 Valesky, Senator Savino, Senator Carlucci -- 6 if those five Democrats decide to become 7 Democrats again tomorrow, tonight, there will 8 be 31-31 here. 9 So right now there is no reason why 10 you'd be in the majority -- if those 11 Democrats, five Democrats decide to be 12 Democrats again, the Republicans will not be 13 in the majority, because there will be 31-31. 14 And then the Lieutenant Governor will decide, 15 and we Democrats, together with those five 16 Democrats that are registered Democrats that 17 are not voting with us, we will become the 18 majority. 19 So it is important for the people 20 that are listening and it is important for 21 people to know what is it we do here tonight. 22 By taking away, by taking away the power of 23 the Lieutenant Governor to decide in matters 24 like this. 25 So, Madam President, it is

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 relevant, what I'm saying to -- what I was 2 asking Senator Libous. We have -- and it's 3 very important for everyone to know right now 4 we have 31 Republicans and 31 Senators that 5 are registered Democrats. And if we are 6 disenfranchising anybody, it is those five 7 Senators who are the ones that 8 disenfranchising the Democratic voters that 9 elected us. 10 Thank you, Madam President. 11 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 13 Libous. 14 SENATOR LIBOUS: Would the 15 Senator yield for one quick question. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 17 Diaz, do you yield? 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Would you yield 19 for one quick question? 20 SENATOR DIAZ: I will yield for 21 three or four or five, whatever. 22 SENATOR LIBOUS: No, just one, 23 Senator. Senator, did you or did you not have 24 the Republican line in this past election? 25 Did you or did you not have the Republican --

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR DIAZ: But I was being a 2 Democrat. I'm a registered Democrat. 3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Did he or did he 4 not have the Republican line? 5 SENATOR DIAZ: Yes, I did. 6 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Madam 7 President. 8 SENATOR DIAZ: Madam President, 9 that's not the question. I'm asking who are 10 registered Democrats. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 12 Diaz -- Senator Diaz, thank you. 13 We do have some other speakers. 14 And I do want to remind you once again that 15 there's a time limit. The Minority side of 16 the house has exceeded their time limit, so we 17 are showing some indulgence toward that. But 18 please keep that in mind, because you are over 19 the limit. 20 So next we would call on Senator 21 Parker. 22 SENATOR PARKER: Thank you, Madam 23 President. 24 And I know that the time is late 25 and my colleagues are weary, having traveled

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 throughout the state last night and this 2 morning. But this is an important issue. 3 People think that the rules are 4 just simply the rules. But the reality is 5 that, you know, government is the one of the 6 few places where how you do things is as 7 important as what you do. And so you kind 8 of -- you know, garbage in, garbage out. 9 And so, you know, these rules are 10 important because also important decisions are 11 going to be made here. And who is able to 12 cast a final determining vote is going to be 13 critical. 14 And I just really want to associate 15 myself with a number of the comments by my 16 colleagues, particularly Liz Krueger, who 17 cited many of the things -- and I'm not going 18 to kind of go through all these things. 19 But I think it is important to note 20 that the Majority's attempt to change who is 21 able to make a casting vote is not only 22 against the Constitution of the state but also 23 flies in the face of both, unlike what Senator 24 Saland says, actually case law, the 25 Constitution, and it flies in the face of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 really what the U.S. Constitution has created 2 as a precedent in terms of providing casting 3 votes. 4 The rules change that's being 5 proposed is the Senate shall choose a 6 Temporary President by resolution adopted upon 7 the vote of a majority of the members of the 8 Senate elected, unquote. And this is a 9 proposed rules change to Section 1. Although 10 Article 3, Section 9 of the New York State 11 Constitution permits the Senate to determine 12 its own rules, the State Constitution assigns 13 the Lieutenant Governor the power to make and 14 break deadlocks in the chamber by exercising a 15 casting vote. And again, that's in New York 16 City Constitution, Article 4. Sorry, check 17 that, Article 4, Section 6. 18 So I've heard lots of people say 19 that, you know, we're not changing the 20 Constitution. This rule change, if voted upon 21 tonight, would actually fly counter to what 22 the New York State Constitution says. And 23 consequently, the Republican Majority proposes 24 new rules violating the Constitution and 25 denies citizens of New York the ability to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 participate in amending the New York State 2 Constitution. 3 Alternatively, if one accepts the 4 current Republican -- 5 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 6 Nozzolio, why do you rise? 7 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, 8 Madam President. Madam President, will 9 Senator Parker yield to a question. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 11 Parker, do you yield? 12 SENATOR PARKER: I would like to 13 yield. I would like to finish this, and then 14 I'll be happy to yield. I need two minutes. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: The 16 Senator doesn't yield at this time, but we'll 17 revisit. 18 SENATOR PARKER: I will yield, I 19 just want to finish my thought and then I'll 20 be happy to yield. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Very 22 good. Thank you, Senator. 23 SENATOR PARKER: Alternatively, 24 if one accepts the current Republican 25 Majority's narrow interpretation of the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Lieutenant Governor's authority to use a 2 casting vote only upon motions and 3 resolutions, the proposed rule would still be 4 unconstitutionally restricted by the 5 Lieutenant Governor's constitutionally 6 confirmed authority. And again, if you see 7 the New York Attorney General's opinion 8 83-F10, it actually confirms that. 9 Of course, the current Republican 10 Majority's interpretation of the casting vote 11 is the complete opposite of the historic 12 position, which was most forcefully stated in 13 2008 when then-Temporary President Joseph 14 Bruno stated that because of the lack of a 15 Lieutenant Governor, he would be able to vote 16 twice on deadlocked votes -- some of you guys 17 remember that, right -- including for the 18 Senate leadership. And you can see that in 19 the New York Times, there's an article called 20 "In a Senate Tie, Could Bruno Vote Twice?" of 21 March 12, 2008. 22 This has been an ongoing problem. 23 I think that Liz talked about that, in the 24 fact that it's really important to 25 understand -- and not only did Alexander

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Hamilton refer to what states were doing to 2 start developing the U.S. Constitution, he 3 actually was specifically talking about 4 New York. It was actually the New York case 5 that was actually -- the New York State 6 Constitution was ratified in 1777, a full 7 10 years before the Federal Constitution, and 8 it was really the basis for what we see the 9 around the country. 10 What we're seeing here, folks, is a 11 simple power grab. And what would simply 12 happen, let me just be very clear about this, 13 in a 31-31 tie -- Senator Libous essentially 14 said it -- that whoever is the leader will 15 continue to be the leader. This is an attempt 16 to make sure that in 2012, if there's a new 17 election, that in 2013, when there's supposed 18 to be a change, if in fact we wind up with a 19 31-31 tie, that the Republican Majority, and 20 presumably Senator Skelos, would continue to 21 be the leader. 22 And this is again, I think, the 23 wrong way for us to be going at this time. I 24 think it's counter to what we see, again, not 25 just in the U.S. Constitution, the State

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Constitution, but other states. In fact, the 2 National Council of State Legislators notes 3 that the lieutenant governor presides over the 4 senate in 25 states. In all but one of those 5 states, the lieutenant governor is able to 6 break ties. 7 More importantly, a lieutenant 8 governor vote broke organizational deadlocks 9 in Idaho in 1990 and in Pennsylvania in 1992. 10 A report prepared by the Virginia State Senate 11 Rules Committee in 1996 noted that in the 12 reported cases, only Minnesota concluded that 13 the lieutenant governor did not have the 14 authority to cast a tie-breaking vote. 15 And that's Howard, it's in the Law 16 28 -- I'll give you the citation if you want 17 it. I'm trying to move fast. 18 Alternatively, in seven decisions 19 the respective high courts decided that the 20 lieutenant governor may vote to break a vote 21 in procedural matters, including in Delaware, 22 Idaho, Kansas, Michigan, Montana, Nebraska and 23 North Dakota. 24 In conclusion, I really wanted to 25 say that we're going to disenfranchise voters

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 more than anything else. Not only are we 2 going to create a bad precedent in terms of 3 this house and what happens here, but the 4 voters who voted for a Governor voted for that 5 Governor because he had a different set of 6 powers and responsibilities than a Senator. 7 Senators should not be in line to become 8 Governor, and that's fine. You know, all of 9 our aspirations aside. 10 What we ought to be doing here is 11 having a process that is authentic and that 12 keeps the integrity of what voters voted for 13 when they elected us but, more importantly, 14 when they elected the Governor and the 15 Lieutenant Governor of the state. 16 I'll accept a question if Senator 17 Nozzolio still has one. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 19 Nozzolio passes at this time. 20 SENATOR PARKER: Thank you. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 22 you, Senator Parker. 23 Again, I would ask the speakers to 24 be brief. 25 The next speaker would be Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Gianaris. 2 SENATOR GIANARIS: Thank you, 3 Madam President. Would Senator Libous yield 4 for a question. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 6 Libous, do you yield? 7 SENATOR LIBOUS: I do, Senator. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 9 you, Senator. 10 SENATOR GIANARIS: Thank you. 11 My question to Senator Libous is 12 simply do you believe that the State 13 Constitution currently provides the Lieutenant 14 Governor the power to break ties over the 15 selection of a Temporary President in the 16 Senate? 17 SENATOR LIBOUS: No, I do not. I 18 think I've been very clear, Madam President. 19 SENATOR GIANARIS: You have. 20 Would the Senator continue to 21 yield, Madam President. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 23 Libous, do you yield? 24 SENATOR LIBOUS: I do, Madam 25 President.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Go 2 ahead, Senator Gianaris. 3 SENATOR GIANARIS: Given that you 4 have made that position very clear, I have one 5 very simple question. Which is if you do not 6 believe the Constitution provides that power 7 currently, why is it necessary to include this 8 provision in the rules of the Senate? 9 SENATOR LIBOUS: It just 10 clarifies what we believe the Constitution 11 says. 12 SENATOR GIANARIS: Exactly. 13 Thank you, Senator Libous. 14 On the resolution, Madam President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: On the 16 resolution. 17 SENATOR GIANARIS: What we heard 18 Senator Libous just admit to is that it is the 19 intent of the Senate Majority to use the 20 Senate rules to interpret a provision of the 21 Constitution. And that is an incredibly 22 dangerous thing to do. 23 It is without question that there 24 is a difference of opinion as to what the 25 Constitution provides in Article 4, Section 6.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 We heard Senator Saland earlier refer to the 2 New York Times of the 1800s -- and far be it 3 from me not to accept the New York Times as an 4 authority. 5 But there is also another authority 6 from New York, from 1906, which postdates that 7 New York Times article, from Charles Lincoln, 8 a treatise called "The Constitutional History 9 of New York." The author was a member of the 10 New York Constitutional Convention. And he 11 stated very clearly: "The power to dissolve a 12 tie and decide the question has been properly 13 vested in the Lieutenant Governor. This power 14 extends to all matters not involving the 15 passage of a bill, including the choice of its 16 officers, including the Temporary President." 17 So at a minimum, there's a 18 difference of opinion as to what this 19 provides. And there are two ways our 20 government allows for varying interpretations 21 of the Constitution to be resolved. One is 22 for the court system to interpret those 23 provisions. And a situation like this 24 ultimately would be decided by the highest 25 court in the state, the Court of Appeals.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 I find it rather ironic that we 2 hear from the Majority the complaint that the 3 Lieutenant Governor is not an elected member 4 of the Senate and therefore is inserting 5 himself as an elected member if he were to be 6 given this power, yet at the same time the 7 Senate Majority, by its own admission, is 8 inserting itself as members of the judiciary 9 in attempting to interpret what the 10 Constitution of the state provides. 11 There's a second way that disputes 12 as to constitutional interpretation can be 13 resolved, and that way rests properly with the 14 Legislature. That is to amend the 15 Constitution. And that is also not what the 16 Senate Majority is doing. They are not 17 suggesting a constitutional amendment to 18 further clarify Article 4, Section 6, which 19 would be the subject of a robust debate in 20 this chamber and in the other chamber across 21 the hall, would have to be passed by two 22 separately elected legislatures and, 23 importantly, be approved by the people of the 24 State of New York in a referendum. 25 What is not an option is for the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 rules dictating the procedure of this house to 2 be used to interpret the most important 3 governmental document this state has, and 4 that's the Constitution of the State of 5 New York. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 7 Nozzolio, why do you rise? 8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Madam 9 President, will Senator Gianaris respond to a 10 question. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Do you 12 yield, Senator? 13 SENATOR GIANARIS: I'd be happy 14 to. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Go 16 ahead, Senator Nozzolio. 17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, 18 Senator Gianaris. Thank you, Madam President. 19 Senator Gianaris, the authority you 20 quote as the constitutional authority, who was 21 that? 22 SENATOR GIANARIS: Let me get it 23 exactly right. Charles Lincoln. 24 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: And, Madam 25 President, will Senator Gianaris continue to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 yield. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Do you 3 yield, Senator? 4 SENATOR GIANARIS: Yes, I do. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Go 6 ahead, Senator. 7 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, 8 Madam President. 9 Senator Gianaris, did Mr. Lincoln 10 in his analysis refer to any specific action 11 taken by this body and particularly by the 12 Lieutenant Governor? In Mr. Lincoln's 13 analysis, did he refer to any particular 14 action taken by the Lieutenant Governor in 15 making certain decisions of which you are 16 quoting from? 17 SENATOR GIANARIS: Just to 18 clarify, are you asking whether he's a 19 referring to a specific action that actually 20 took place, as opposed to a theoretical 21 discussion? 22 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: That's 23 correct. 24 SENATOR GIANARIS: Not in the 25 section that I quoted, no.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 2 Nozzolio. 3 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: If Senator 4 Gianaris would continue to yield, Madam 5 President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Will you 7 continue to yield, Senator Gianaris? 8 SENATOR GIANARIS: Yes, Madam 9 President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Go 11 ahead. 12 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: It's my 13 understanding, Senator, that the source and 14 authority of which you quote based his 15 decision on certain articles of the State 16 Constitution that were actually regarding -- 17 in his argument supported by a single case in 18 which the mayor of a city in this state voted 19 to break a tie on a substantive matter, that 20 he had -- the constitutional authority which 21 you quote was not referring to the Lieutenant 22 Governor of the State of New York but rather 23 an action by a mayor and city council. 24 SENATOR GIANARIS: In discussing 25 the action which you reference, the author,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 who has been regularly cited as a source by 2 our Court of Appeals, went into the 3 theoretical discussion of the powers of a 4 Lieutenant Governor in making the analysis as 5 it relates to the case you're talking about. 6 My point is simply that there are 7 authorities that are on either side of this 8 issue, and this matter is properly resolved 9 either by the court system itself -- which is 10 where a constitutional interpretation should 11 be interpreted -- or, if the Legislature is 12 going to take this up, it should do so through 13 the process of a constitutional amendment, not 14 through setting the procedural rules of this 15 house, which is what you are attempting to do 16 tonight. 17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Madam 18 President, will Senator Gianaris continue to 19 yield. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Will you 21 yield? 22 SENATOR GIANARIS: Yes, Madam 23 President. 24 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: That I 25 appreciate your isolating this, although

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 certainly I recall last year or two years ago 2 when the selection of Lieutenant Governor was 3 made not by any constitutional authority but a 4 combination, of which I believe you suggested 5 be for with. Isn't that in fact the direct 6 opposite of what you're suggesting now, 7 that -- but let me -- let me -- 8 SENATOR GIANARIS: Is that a 9 question, Madam President? Because I would 10 like to answer it. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Is that 12 a question, Senator? 13 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: No, Madam 14 President, it wasn't. 15 (Laughter.) 16 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: It was a 17 statement, Senator. 18 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: My question, 19 Senator, is this. There is one word in the 20 State Constitution that isolates the actions 21 of a Lieutenant Governor from the threshold to 22 the casting vote, and that one word is the 23 word "therein." 24 It's my opinion and the opinion of 25 others on our side of the aisle that the word

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 "therein" constitutes the operative time when 2 the Lieutenant Governor can engage his 3 authority after the body so chooses its 4 leadership. 5 And I believe that is an issue that 6 I did not hear you discuss. Are you not 7 familiar with that provision of the State 8 Constitution? Let me refer that to you. It's 9 Article 4, Section 6. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 11 Gianaris. 12 SENATOR GIANARIS: Yeah, I 13 respect the Senator's position on that. And I 14 respect that there can be differences of 15 opinion as to how Article 4, Section 6 should 16 be interpreted. 17 My point is simply that that is not 18 resolved on the floor of the Senate when we're 19 passing the rules of the Senate. That is 20 either resolved by the Court of Appeals, after 21 litigation -- which, to answer your previous 22 question which you revoked, was in fact where 23 the issue of the appointment of the Lieutenant 24 Governor was decided, ultimately, as it should 25 have been -- or by constitutional amendment.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 What is it that the Senate Majority 2 is afraid of? Put forward a constitutional 3 amendment. Let's vote for it, if that's what 4 you want to do. Let's see what the Assembly 5 does. And let's change the Constitution the 6 proper way, if that's what you want to do, not 7 through this back-door mechanism of 8 establishing the procedural rules of this 9 house in a way that by Senator Libous's own 10 admission is intended to interpret the 11 Constitution. 12 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Madam 13 President, will Senator Gianaris continue to 14 yield. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Will you 16 yield? 17 SENATOR GIANARIS: Yes, Madam 18 President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: I'm 20 confused, Senator. The purity of which you 21 wish to change the Constitution was ignored 22 totally in the selection of Lieutenant 23 Governor. 24 Your admonition that this body 25 change the State Constitution was a plea that

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 was totally ignored when this body put on a 2 rider to the last year's budget that totally 3 changed the way the census is determined in 4 New York State, in direct contradiction to the 5 State Constitution. 6 I guess that's the question we had 7 then: Why didn't the same Legislature change 8 the State Constitution during the prison 9 census issue or during the Lieutenant Governor 10 issue? Neither of those constitutional 11 questions were changed by the State 12 Constitution but rather by this body. 13 SENATOR GIANARIS: It was my 14 position, Senator Nozzolio -- I can speak most 15 authoritatively about the Lieutenant Governor 16 appointment issue. And it was my position and 17 continues to be my position that the 18 Constitution allowed that appointment. So the 19 Constitution did not need to be changed. 20 Others disagreed, and they took it 21 to court and they lost. So we had a 22 Lieutenant Governor that was appointed. 23 The fact is that in this case the 24 Senate Majority believes that the Constitution 25 does not provide the Lieutenant Governor the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 power to break a tie. I disagree. 2 But given that the Majority does 3 not believe that power currently exists, 4 there's no reason to insert it in the rules 5 right now other than to try and interpret the 6 Constitution. And that is inappropriate, and 7 that is in contravention of the balance of 8 powers that this state has been living under 9 for over 200 years. 10 And I find it offensive, and I 11 think it's the worst of what people dislike 12 about Albany. The worst of what people 13 dislike about this Capitol is that we are 14 using the procedural rules of this house to 15 interpret something as important as the powers 16 of the Lieutenant Governor of the State of 17 New York. 18 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator, you 19 and I respectfully -- 20 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator, 21 are you asking Senator Gianaris to yield? 22 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Yes, Madam 23 President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Do you 25 yield?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR GIANARIS: Yes, Madam 2 President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Proceed. 4 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Senator 5 Gianaris, you and I respectfully disagree 6 about that tactic and the characterization of 7 the motivation for placement of these rules. 8 I appreciate you clarifying your 9 source, your constitutional source, and I 10 thank you for your yielding. 11 SENATOR GIANARIS: Thank you, 12 Senator. 13 And I know the time is short, so I 14 will just conclude. I think my points have 15 largely been made. 16 But this is not the time and the 17 place to be interpreting the Constitution or 18 to be tinkering with a document as important 19 as the Constitution. If there's a 20 disagreement as to what the Constitution says, 21 the courts should resolve it. If we're not 22 happy with what the Constitution says, we 23 should change it through the constitutional 24 amendment process, not through setting the 25 rules of the Senate.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 And with that, I conclude my 2 remarks and thank the President for the time. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 4 you, Senator Gianaris. 5 I see Senator Duane in the chamber. 6 Senator Duane, I believe you had wished to 7 speak, and I would ask -- okay, thank you very 8 much. We really appreciate it. 9 Senator Bonacic. 10 Don't take that the wrong way. 11 (Laughter.) 12 SENATOR BONACIC: It's been a 13 long day. My name was invoked six times in 14 discussing the amendments of reform. And I'd 15 like to for a moment leave aside the 16 Lieutenant Governor debate. I think good 17 points were made on both sides, but it's going 18 to have to be determined by a court of law. I 19 think we have a difference of opinion. 20 I did not support the three 21 amendments. I supported the spirit of all 22 three amendments, but there were poison-pill 23 stuff in each of those amendments that were 24 not consistent with our rules report back in 25 April of 2009.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Let me first thank Senator Griffo 2 and all the members of that rules reform 3 committee, because I think when the nine of us 4 were at the table -- and I'm not a rules guy. 5 Don't talk to me about Roberts, don't talk to 6 me about Mason rules. I like policy. But we 7 got charged with this responsibility. And the 8 more we got into this, and the more we had 9 public hearings and the more we listened to 10 good government groups and the more we looked 11 at other states and the more we heard scholars 12 come in, and legal professors, there is 13 something to doing good rules. 14 And even though in the two years 15 when you were in the majority you did take 16 turtle steps -- that you interpret as 17 monumental, compared to what the majority 18 Republicans did years before, because they 19 basically didn't do anything. And I will say 20 to you that that blueprint of that report is 21 the model that we should try to get to, if we 22 can. 23 And why should we try to get there? 24 We should try to get there because the old 25 Albany culture does not work. To the victor

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 belongs the spoils. You see how that Assembly 2 is run. I've come from there; many of you 3 over there have come from that house. That is 4 a dictatorship where the leader and staff have 5 more power than the elected officials. 6 And to a great extent here, that 7 exists, although there are steps taken now to 8 break that culture. And it's all healthy. 9 And why is it healthy? Because every member 10 that gets to this seat as a Senator must have 11 the security of a certain amount of resources 12 to do his job. His constituents should not 13 suffer, his or her constituents should not 14 suffer if they're in the minority. They 15 didn't do anything wrong. 16 They should have access to equal 17 resources, they should have access to equal 18 member items, and they should have access to 19 equal capital. Not the Senator, but the 20 constituents. And you should be able to 21 communicate and have the resources so you can 22 communicate with each other, the Senator and 23 the constituents. Under this system now, that 24 doesn't happen. 25 Our conference did not go far

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 enough in following the rules. In my humble 2 opinion, they did not. And I wanted them to. 3 But there's so much distrust between each side 4 of the aisle, there's so much partisan 5 politics, and the stakes are so high with 6 32-30 and redistricting coming down the road. 7 So the environment is toxic for people of 8 goodwill to try to get to that comfort 9 position that the blueprinters laid out in 10 that report in April. 11 I believe that -- and I liked the 12 chemistry of those nine members, because they 13 were sincere, they were new, many of them, and 14 they said this is a better way. But when it 15 got up the flagpole, when you have the 16 leadership has the power and they have the 17 money and they have the control, they don't 18 want to let go of this. Again, back to the 19 Albany old culture. 20 So all I will say in conclusion is 21 that it's very difficult when you're in the 22 majority to move the rules reform to get to 23 that place of comfort where Senators are 24 treated equally and constituents are treated 25 fairly and equally. The only way that this is

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 going to get done -- and this is a long 2 shot -- is we've got to do it in statute. 3 So what I plan on doing is I'm 4 going to prepare legislation that embodies the 5 heart of those rules reform, such as a 6 petition of 32. Because that's more 7 democratic. If 32 of us want a bill to come 8 to the floor, it should come to the floor and 9 be voted on. 10 I remember when Nettie Mayersohn, 11 the Assemblywoman, when we were over there in 12 the Assembly had 108 votes and couldn't get 13 the bill on the floor. That's not a 14 democracy, that's a dictatorship. 15 And I do believe that there should 16 be equal resources. And we can't -- you know, 17 and I like my leader, Senator Skelos. I think 18 he's respectful. He's benevolent. And I 19 think by his conduct he will try to treat 20 everybody with respect. But leaders come and 21 go, and they could change with more power as 22 they're in a longer time. 23 So it may sound utopian, it may 24 sound not based in reality. But what I would 25 ask each member here, when this legislation

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 comes before you, sign the petition so we can 2 get it on the floor. We took the best of the 3 Brennan Institute, we took the best of the 4 good government groups, we took the best of 5 other states. Because process does affect the 6 quality of the product for the people we 7 represent. 8 So I will say, in conclusion, that 9 I'm supporting this resolution because -- the 10 Lieutenant Governor issue, that's not going to 11 be resolved here tonight, obviously. But 12 there are other things worth fighting for. 13 And as this comes down the road -- now 14 tomorrow, rules won't even be on the radar 15 screen. We'll have economic challenges, we'll 16 have the Governor's blueprint, and that will 17 take all our time. But we will overcome the 18 challenges of the Governor. 19 But every day you have to deal with 20 the rules, each of us do. Every day. That's 21 worth fighting for. That never goes away. So 22 I say, in conclusion, don't lose it off your 23 radar screen as we go into session. 24 Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 you, Senator Bonacic. 2 Senator DeFrancisco to close. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Just -- I 4 wasn't going to speak on this point, but since 5 it was just raised by Senator Bonacic, you 6 know, it's this utopian philosophy of various 7 policies until you're the individuals who are 8 in control of the house. 9 The Minority is now wanting equal 10 resources. If you look at the numbers from 11 last year, the total final numbers for the 12 amount spent on the Democrat side of the 13 aisle, the amount spent on the Republican side 14 of the aisle, despite their philosophical 15 desire for equality, 71 percent of the 16 resources went to the Democrats in this house, 17 29 percent went to Republicans. The Democrats 18 in the house went over their budget by 10 to 19 14 million; the Republicans went under their 20 budget by several million. 21 So it's one thing talking 22 philosophy and trying to lecture one side or 23 the other side. But if you look at the facts, 24 what is the real reality behind what's being 25 argued for and what was really done.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 But on the Lieutenant Governor 2 issue, which I think is a very important 3 issue, there's been some suggestion by Senator 4 Gianaris that we are somehow interpreting the 5 Constitution by putting it in the rules. All 6 that's being done, if you look at the 7 Constitution, the phrase from the Constitution 8 is taken from the Constitution and put in the 9 rules. There's no changes. It's taken from 10 the Constitution and put in the rules. No 11 interpretation of anything. 12 And when you indicate that this is 13 some way doing something wrong, just listen to 14 the rules here -- the Constitution, I mean. 15 The Constitution says this. A majority of 16 each house shall constitute a quorum, 17 et cetera. Each house shall determine the 18 rules and be judge of elections and 19 qualifications and shall choose its own 20 officers. And the Senate, the Senate shall 21 choose a Temporary President and the Assembly 22 choose a Speaker. The Senate. 23 I don't think anybody in here truly 24 believes that the Lieutenant Governor is a 25 member of the Senate. The Lieutenant Governor

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 does not run for the Senate. He runs -- and 2 he's not even here tonight. The Lieutenant 3 Governor is a presiding officer. That's all 4 he does. 5 So all that's being done is the 6 Constitution phrase is put right in the rules 7 to make it very clear that this body, 8 including Democrats and Republicans, choose 9 who their leader is going to be, not someone 10 who ran with the executive and is a member of 11 the executive branch. 12 I'll answer a question as soon as I 13 get done with this last point. 14 There's been a lot of argument 15 about another section of the Constitution, on 16 what a casting vote is. Whatever a casting 17 vote is -- and you can have one interpretation 18 from somebody who wrote something in 1902 or 19 someone from the New York Times or whatever. 20 The fact of the matter is it's irrelevant 21 what's meant by a casting vote. That's a 22 general concept. The specific section of the 23 Constitution says the Senate shall choose. 24 So as to the choice of a Temporary 25 President, it's very clear. The specific

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 clause overrides some possible different 2 interpretations by pundits and treatise 3 writers and so forth as to what a casting vote 4 is. 5 Now I'd be happy to answer any 6 question that Senator Squadron might have. 7 SENATOR SQUADRON: Madam 8 President, I -- 9 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 10 Squadron, why do you rise? 11 SENATOR SQUADRON: Will Senator 12 DeFrancisco yield for a question? I think he 13 indicated he would. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Do you 15 yield, Senator DeFrancisco? 16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 18 you. 19 SENATOR SQUADRON: Just two 20 questions. The hour is beginning to get late, 21 and we only have a couple more hours of this, 22 so just two brief questions. 23 First of all, Senator DeFrancisco, 24 I'm not an attorney. I believe you are an 25 attorney. I believe from time to time you've

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 been helpful in helping me interpret laws 2 before the house. 3 In the case that there's a conflict 4 between the rules of the Senate and the 5 Constitution of the State of New York, Senator 6 DeFrancisco, can you just describe for me 7 which would prevail and carry the weight of 8 law? 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Which would 10 prevail would be the Constitution. Except 11 here, as I just mentioned moments ago. All 12 these rules are is taking a phrase from the 13 Constitution and putting it in the rules. So 14 they're going to be extremely consistent. 15 They're going to be identical on that issue. 16 SENATOR SQUADRON: And through 17 you, Madam President, just a clarification 18 question to that answer, if Senator 19 DeFrancisco is willing to yield again. 20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 21 SENATOR SQUADRON: Again, whether 22 there is a conflict here or not, in the case 23 of a conflict, the Constitution certainly 24 would prevail over the rules of the Senate. 25 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Squadron, I don't know how I can answer it 2 more clearly. This will not be a conflict. 3 So that esoteric theoretical question that may 4 be on a law exam is immaterial here. 5 The phrase is taken out of the 6 Constitution and put in the rules. They are 7 the same. There is no conflict. The words 8 are identical. 9 SENATOR SQUADRON: Thanks, 10 Senator DeFrancisco. If he's willing to yield 11 to just one final question. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator, 13 do you yield? 14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Go 16 ahead, please. 17 SENATOR SQUADRON: Senator 18 DeFrancisco described a percentage based on 19 some calculation, I'm not sure what the 20 calculation was, of the distribution of 21 resources and somehow suggested that that 22 impugns this debate overall. 23 Just out of curiosity, what does 24 Senator DeFrancisco think is the appropriate 25 division of resources between conferences and

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 among members so that we can all represent our 2 constituents? 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, I 4 certainly don't think that any member should 5 double the cost of their district office that 6 was allocated. That's one thing I think is -- 7 you would agree with that, wouldn't you, 8 Senator? Would you agree with me on that? 9 SENATOR SQUADRON: I believe 10 Senator DeFrancisco is asking me to yield, so 11 I will yield briefly and answer that question. 12 Which, as Senator DeFrancisco knows, for 13 better or worse, the Secretary of the Senate 14 makes those decisions in this house. 15 Also, the question is not about 16 that but, again, what does Senator DeFrancisco 17 think would be fair. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I'll be 19 happy to answer that. 20 First of all, I think that -- I'm 21 sorry you were forced to spend twice the 22 amount of money by the Secretary of the 23 Senate. But others went under their budget. 24 What I think is fair, I think 25 what's the fairest way to do it is a base

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 amount and then committee chairs have 2 additional funds that would be available to 3 the committee chairs. Because obviously 4 committee chairs have a heck of a lot more 5 responsibility than others. That's the way I 6 would do it. Unfortunately -- well, that's 7 the way I would do it. 8 Thank you very much. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 10 you. 11 SENATOR SQUADRON: Just for 12 clarity, I didn't hear a percentage 13 distribution of resources. Senator 14 DeFrancisco clearly is quite good at 15 calculating percentages of resources -- 16 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 17 Libous, why do you rise? 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: I believe 19 Senator DeFrancisco -- 20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: All I 21 wanted to say is I answered the question, and 22 there's nothing else I could add. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 24 you, Senator. 25 The debate is closed.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Senator Duane, you can explain your 2 vote, please. Okay? 3 SENATOR DUANE: I think -- 4 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 5 DeFrancisco was the last speaker. 6 SENATOR DUANE: He did say he was 7 open to any questions, Madam President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator, 9 could you please explain your vote, because we 10 are way over. We've been very, very -- giving 11 a lot of leeway. 12 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President, 13 point of order. 14 This is a resolution and we're -- 15 listen. Madam President, we have gone way 16 over the time limit because I felt it was 17 important that everybody be heard. Way over 18 the time limit. No one got up to raise the 19 fact that one side or the other was speaking 20 too long. 21 Madam President, Senator Duane had 22 an opportunity to speak before, and he turned 23 it down. I will be a gentleman, Madam 24 President, and let Senator Duane close the 25 debate on this issue if he would be brief,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 please. 2 SENATOR DUANE: Through you, 3 Madam President -- 4 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Can you 5 be brief, Senator? 6 SENATOR DUANE: It was -- I 7 was -- I'm not really that interested in 8 closing the debate. We have someone to do 9 that. I will answer my own question -- I will 10 answer my questions as I assume they would 11 have been answered by the other side when I 12 cast my vote. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 14 you very much, Senator. 15 The debate is closed. 16 The question is on the resolution. 17 All those in favor signify by saying aye. 18 (Response of "Aye.") 19 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Opposed, 20 nay. 21 (Response of "Nay.") 22 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 23 Duane, would you like to explain your vote? 24 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Madam 25 President.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Point of 2 order. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 4 DeFrancisco. 5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: The rules 6 that have been adopted -- and even according 7 to the prior rules -- do not allow explanation 8 of votes on resolutions. The rules are clear. 9 And I would ask for a ruling of the chair. 10 SENATOR BRESLIN: Madam 11 President, point of order, please. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 13 Breslin. 14 SENATOR BRESLIN: Yes, Madam 15 President. I refer you to our rules -- that 16 would be 9.3(e), wherein it talks about that 17 you are allowed to provide an explanation of 18 your vote. Resolutions or motions are 19 included. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 21 DeFrancisco. 22 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: That 23 section says the vote shall thereupon be taken 24 upon such bill, resolution, et cetera, but 25 without further debate -- without further

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 debate -- except that upon a roll call any 2 Senator may speak, not to exceed two minutes 3 in explanation. 4 That was not a roll call vote, that 5 was a voice vote. 6 SENATOR BRESLIN: We call for a 7 roll call vote. 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: We've had 9 the vote, and the vote has been taken. 10 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President, 11 the vote has been taken. A role call vote on 12 a resolution is not in order, is not in the 13 rules of this house. And I believe the 14 resolution was before the house, I believe a 15 vote was taken and the resolution passed. Is 16 that correct, Madam President? 17 SEVERAL SENATORS: No. No. 18 SENATOR BRESLIN: Madam 19 President -- 20 SENATOR LIBOUS: What do you 21 mean, no? I've got all these critics? 22 Madam President, I believe half of 23 the house is out of order right now. 24 UNIDENTIFIED SENATOR: Which 25 half?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR MAZIARZ: A little less 2 than half. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 4 Libous, what I'd like to do, if it's okay, is 5 that I had told Senator Duane that he could 6 explain his vote. So I would like to make the 7 exception this time so that he can briefly 8 explain his vote, because I told him he could 9 do it, and then we'll proceed from there. 10 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President, 11 I would allow that with unanimous consent for 12 this one time only. Do we have unanimous 13 consent of the house? And it would be allowed 14 for this one time. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Is there 16 any objection? 17 (No response.) 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: There appears to 19 have unanimous consent, Madam President, to 20 let Mr. Duane speak. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Senator 22 Duane, you have two minutes to explain your 23 vote. 24 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, Madam 25 President.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Sadly, it has become clear to me 2 that there really are no really shining 3 examples of either what happened over the past 4 two years or what is happening now. And my 5 hope is, my desire is, my wish and my belief 6 of what we should do is to make rules that 7 going forward in this house will provide for 8 fairness, transparency, and equality, and not 9 make rules based on the bad behavior of some 10 members over the past few years. 11 So with that, Madam President, I'm 12 going to vote no, but with the fervent desire 13 that we can take members at their word that 14 they actually are going to do more to improve 15 our rules. The people of New York State 16 deserve no less. 17 Thank you, Madam President. 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Announce the 19 results. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Thank 21 you, Senator Duane. 22 Senator Breslin. 23 SENATOR BRESLIN: I'd request a 24 show of hands, if I could, please. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: Very

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 good. The question is on the resolution. 2 Those in favor signify by raising their hands. 3 (Senators raised their hands.) 4 SENATOR BRESLIN: As before, 5 Madam President, I would request that we have 6 the names of those voting in the affirmative. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: The 8 Secretary will announce the results. 9 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 10 Resolution Number 338: Ayes, 36. Nays, 24. 11 Those recorded in the affirmative 12 on Resolution Number 338 are Senators Alesi, 13 Ball, Bonacic, DeFrancisco, Farley, Flanagan, 14 Fuschillo, Gallivan, Golden, Griffo, Grisanti, 15 Hannon, Johnson, Lanza, Larkin, LaValle, 16 Libous, Little, Marcellino, Martins, Maziarz, 17 McDonald, Nozzolio, O'Mara, Ranzenhofer, 18 Ritchie, Robach, Saland, Seward, Skelos, 19 Young, Zeldin, Carlucci, Klein, Savino and 20 Valesky. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: The 22 resolution is adopted. 23 Senator Libous. 24 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President, 25 is there any other business before the house?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 I didn't say we adjourned yet. Is 2 there any other business before the house? 3 Madam President? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: There is 5 no other business. 6 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President, 7 I hand up the following committee assignment 8 from Senator Skelos and ask that it be filed 9 in the Journal. 10 And, Madam President, there being 11 no further business, the Senate will stand 12 adjourned -- could I have some order in the 13 house? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: 15 (Gaveling). 16 SENATOR LIBOUS: The Senate will 17 stand adjourned until noon tomorrow. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT YOUNG: So 19 ordered, Senator Libous. 20 On motion, the Senate stands 21 adjourned until Tuesday, February 1st, at 22 12:00 o'clock noon. 23 (Whereupon, at 8:20 p.m., the 24 Senate adjourned.) 25

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