The Senate Finance Committee Will Consider the Following Nominations: Risa S. Sugarman as Chief Enforcement Counsel of the State Board of Elections (To Appear) Lawrence J. Waldman as Trustee of the State University of New York Board of Trustees (Not Appearing) Eric Corngold as a Trustee of the State University of New York Board of Trustees (Not Appearing) Iris Weinshall as a Member of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority (Not Appearing)

COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT:2 3 Senator John J. Bonacic 4 Senator John J. Flanagan 5 Senator Martin Golden 6 Senator Timothy M. Kennedy 7 Senator Liz Krueger (RM) 8 Senator Andrew J. Lanza 9 Senator William J. Larkin, Jr. 10 Senator Kenneth P. LaValle 11 Senator Betty Little 12 Senator Carl L. Marcellino 13 Senator Jack M. Martins 14 Senator Michael F. Nozzolio 15 Senator Thomas F. O'Mara 16 Senator Bill Perkins 17 Senator Diane J. Savino 18 Senator Daniel J. Squadron 19 Senator Toby Ann Stavisky 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: I would like to call 2 the Finance Committee meeting to order, and I would 3 like to take these out of order because Ranker has 4 asked a question about Mr. Waldman. 5 And Risa Sugarman is on her way. She will be 6 here momentarily. 7 So, with that said, I'd like to raise the 8 nomination of Eric Corngold as trustee of the 9 State University of New York Board of Trustees. 10 It's my understanding he's an existing 11 member, so this will be a reappointment. 12 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Move it. 13 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Any questions or 14 comments? 15 Moved by Senator Marcellino, seconded by 16 Senator Savino. 17 All in favor? 18 (Those in favor say "Aye.") 19 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Opposed? 20 The nominee is approved, it will be sent to 21 the full floor. 22 Next nominee, Iris Weinshall, is a member of 23 the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. 24 She is not here. 25 And, is there a question or a comment? 1 Senator Krueger. 2 SENATOR KRUEGER: I have known Iris Weinshall 3 for many years in many different capacities, 4 including being the City Department of 5 Transportation Commissioner, now the head of the 6 CUNY Construction, is it, Authority? 7 SENATOR STAVISKY: No. 8 She's the vice chancellor of CUNY for 9 construction. 10 SENATOR KRUEGER: "For construction." 11 Thank you. 12 And, also, in her capacity as having -- 13 happens to be married to one of our key 14 U.S. Senators. 15 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Which one? 16 SENATOR LARKIN: Schumer. 17 SENATOR KRUEGER: She lives in Brooklyn. 18 And I think that she is enormously respected 19 in the very professional positions. 20 She's married to Senator Schumer, for those 21 of you who don't get it. 22 And I think she's been professionally 23 respected from all of the work that she has done 24 (inaudible). 25 I would be happy to nominate her. 1 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Is there a second? 2 SENATOR STAVISKY: Second. 3 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Okay, I don't know -- 4 Senator LaValle. 5 SENATOR LAVALLE: Iris is incredibly smart. 6 She, as was mentioned, is vice chancellor for 7 facilities and planning. And what she has done in 8 CUNY has been nothing short of miraculous. 9 It's like having 2 fish, and she can produce 10 100. 11 She is just a terrific individual, and she 12 will be a really good member. 13 Inquisitive, dynamic, and, her partner could 14 probably learn something on the spot. 15 [Laughter.] 16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Move to nomination. 17 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Moved by 18 Senator Krueger, and seconded by Senator Stavisky. 19 I don't know her at all, but I know she must 20 be a very tolerant individual. 21 [Laughter.] 22 SENATOR LARKIN: She must be. 23 SENATOR STAVISKY: No, no, she's incredibly 24 smart. 25 SENATOR LARKIN: But she's tolerant. 1 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: She's tolerant as well. 2 All in favor? 3 (Those in favor say "Aye.") 4 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Opposed? 5 The nominee is approved, it will be sent to 6 the full Senate. 7 We have with us today, Risa S. Sugarman, is 8 the chief enforcement counsel for the State Board of 9 Elections. 10 As all of you know, this is a new position 11 that was created at the end of the budget process 12 for the Board of Elections. 13 And, I'm just going to ask her -- everybody's 14 got your resume, but ask if her, just give us a 15 little background about herself, and we'll open it 16 up to questions. 17 RISA SUGARMAN: Good afternoon, and thank you 18 for having me here. 19 Just very briefly, I was a graduate of 20 St. John's Law School. 21 SENATOR STAVISKY: Ah, good. 22 RISA SUGARMAN: 20 years in the 23 Bronx District Attorney's Office, where my last 24 assignment was as chief of homicide for 10 years. 25 I was in private practice. I was the chief 1 attorney for children's rights in Orange County. 2 And, then, as an assistant attorney general 3 in the AG's Office in New York State, handling 4 "sex-offender civil management" litigation. 5 I went to the Division of Criminal Justice 6 Services, where I also handled 7 sex-offender-management issues. 8 And then, in March of 2013, I went to 9 New York State Tax and Finance, where I headed a 10 criminal investigations division. I supervised 11 attorneys, investigators, and auditors. 12 I've been a candidate for district attorney 13 in Orange County, a treasurer. 14 I've carried petitions. 15 And, I think a combination of all those makes 16 me well-suited for this position. 17 Thank you. 18 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Any questions? 19 Senator Larkin. 20 SENATOR LARKIN: No questions. 21 It's good to see you again. 22 RISA SUGARMAN: Thank you, Senator. 23 SENATOR LARKIN: This young lady here, she 24 talked about the campaign. When somebody tried to 25 make an issue of something that would -- John, you 1 as an attorney would say, "Next case." 2 But this lady is well-respected. 3 I talked to the bar association, and they had 4 asked me to make sure I supported her. 5 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Senator Little. 6 SENATOR LITTLE: Just a question, out of 7 curiosity, I guess. 8 On the appointment process (inaudible), is 9 there no compensation for this position? 10 [Laughter.] 11 RISA SUGARMAN: Oh, my. 12 SENATOR LARKIN: They didn't tell you that? 13 [Laughter.] 14 RISA SUGARMAN: No, they didn't tell me that. 15 SENATOR MARCELLINO: The budget is very 16 tight. 17 SENATOR LITTLE: That was a thing that 18 I noticed. 19 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Not set in statute, 20 which means she'll have to argue for her salary. 21 Do you have any reasonable expectation of 22 what your salary will be? 23 RISA SUGARMAN: I do. 24 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Okay. 25 Can you -- well, since the question was 1 raised, can you give us an idea of what the salary 2 is, so -- 3 RISA SUGARMAN: It was posted between 4 one forty and one fifty. 5 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Anyone? 6 Senator Nozzolio? 7 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Welcome. 8 RISA SUGARMAN: Thank you, sir. 9 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I have, certainly, the 10 utmost respect for your resume, and that, although 11 I don't know you or have crossed paths with you in 12 the past, certainly, you are well-qualified for this 13 position. 14 One of the things that I'm concerned about is 15 that, how are you going to translate your excellent 16 criminal justice experience, prosecutorial 17 experience, with the need to forge compliance at the 18 Board of Elections? 19 That, to me, there is a large amount of room 20 for statutory interpretation within the board, in 21 the laws that govern the board. And that it's not 22 as black-and-white as other areas of the law. 23 You've been involved in election law. You 24 know, certainly, there are certain deadlines, and 25 things like that, that are black-and-white. 1 Compliance requirements, that you either 2 comply or don't comply, and that's black-and-white, 3 in terms of yes or no. 4 But, the issue of assisting those who are 5 involved in the political process with complying 6 with election law, what is going to be the role of 7 this new position? 8 And how are you going to bring your skill set 9 to, maybe, have to alter that skill set, somewhat, 10 based on your past experience? 11 RISA SUGARMAN: I think that the role of the 12 enforcement counsel is to handle the egregious 13 criminal violations of the election law. 14 And that's how I view that role. 15 I think that my skill set is very 16 well-equipped to do that. 17 I also think that there is a need for the 18 compliance unit to handle those situations that you 19 describe. 20 I think that the compliance unit needs to 21 understand that there are mistakes that are made, 22 and those mistakes should be handled by education of 23 the treasurers, the candidates, and those who carry 24 petitions. 25 Mistakes are mistakes, and in my view, 1 they're not criminal. 2 There needs to be education, there needs to 3 be training, and there needs to be training that 4 doesn't require people to lose a day's work to go to 5 training. 6 I think that we need to leverage the 7 technology that we have today, by either setting up 8 webinars or podcasts, so that people can learn how 9 to become a treasurer, how to become a candidate; 10 how to not make the mistakes, that the compliance 11 requirements are needed, so that they can learn not 12 to make the mistakes again. 13 And if they make the mistake again, to 14 counsel them again in how not to do that. 15 It's not a criminal violation to make a 16 mistake, in my estimation. 17 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Well, or to, as you've 18 seen (inaudible) in the past, and other reviewers, 19 contend that a lack of a ZIP code was, in fact, an 20 egregious violation. 21 RISA SUGARMAN: I've heard that in the last 22 few days. 23 I don't believe that when you -- when a 24 ZIP code is missing, that's a criminal violation, 25 and that should come to my attention. 1 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I guess the other, as you 2 develop this, compliance, I think it's wrong for 3 people not to comply with filing their documents on 4 time, or within, certainly, a reasonable period of 5 time. That it -- that sort of thing we've seen too 6 much of in the past. 7 But it would be very helpful, that the 8 compliance unit has been understaffed. 9 We've had -- under Senator O'Mara's 10 direction, we've had hearings, reviewing the Board 11 of Elections, over the last year. 12 Having a review of advisory opinions, so that 13 it's -- maybe this gets to your training mission, 14 and not just training (unintelligible) groups, but, 15 candidates, and those who are certainly entrusted 16 with these documents. 17 Tell us, I guess you're saying you do plan to 18 have that kind of training process? 19 SENATOR SQUADRON: I think that what I would 20 like to do, is go in -- I don't know what goes on at 21 the Board of Elections. I haven't been there. 22 I don't know how it functions. 23 What I would plan to do is go in and look, 24 and work with the people that are there. 25 I think that silos are not good, so that 1 going in and building a silo around me would not be 2 a good thing. 3 I would like to go in and break down silos, 4 if they're there, to work together, to make things 5 better that are working okay, to make them work 6 well, and, look at things that work not so well, to 7 make them work better. 8 I think that if all the parts of the Board of 9 Elections work together to make things work better, 10 I think that the public at large will have a better 11 confidence level of what the electoral process does, 12 and that people who work within that process are 13 doing the right things, and, to give the candidates 14 and the people who work within the system a 15 confidence level, that they can work within their 16 campaigns, to run a campaign, and do what's right, 17 and do it well. 18 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: With clear direction -- 19 RISA SUGARMAN: Right. 20 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: -- and clear understanding 21 of the statutes, through the help of the board. 22 RISA SUGARMAN: I think so. I think that's 23 what's needed. 24 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I think that's important. 25 And that, certainly -- 1 RISA SUGARMAN: You also need the courts to 2 give that -- the direction, but that's the courts, 3 and the Legislature, perhaps. 4 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: And I guess, just to leave 5 you with it, we hope that you work with the 6 Legislature in developing these types of protocols 7 and these types of additional training dynamics, and 8 educational dynamics, so that there is a clear 9 understanding of what the law requires. 10 RISA SUGARMAN: And I've saying that over the 11 past couple of days. 12 I will always want to hear from people who 13 are experienced in what needs to be done better, to 14 come and talk with me. And I'm always willing to 15 listen to that. 16 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you very much. 17 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 18 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Senator O'Mara. 19 SENATOR O'MARA: Yes, thank you. 20 And thank you for coming around earlier this 21 week, introducing yourself, and for making yourself 22 accessible and responsive to our staff in going 23 through this vetting process. 24 We certainly appreciate that, as, when we 25 met, and we discussed, you know, things at the 1 Board of Elections have been highlighted in recent 2 years, a need for improvement. 3 There has been a consistent, I think, lack of 4 budget for the Board of Elections to appropriately 5 do things with auditors and investigators, and 6 that's led to a long period of time where I think, 7 for a lot of the members that have been around for a 8 long time, things have just gotten a little 9 lackadaisical, because there hasn't been any dotting 10 of i's and crossing of t's. 11 And, I just want to know what your approach 12 is going to be in coming in, and, you know, say, 13 looking back for these technical-type compliance 14 issues. 15 I'm not talking about criminal activity, or 16 anything like that, but, as far as compliance. 17 And, obviously, with your role in this 18 position, there's going to be some more clarity, 19 I think, coming forward, with what's expected, and 20 what's going to be demanded, on our filings, which 21 is completely appropriate, and well-needed, I think. 22 But, you know, we want to avoid, you know, 23 "gotcha." 24 You know what I'm saying? 25 RISA SUGARMAN: I understand. 1 And that's not my intent, and I don't think 2 that's the -- what this statute was designed to do. 3 It's not what I did as a prosecutor, and it's 4 not what I envision this office to be. 5 I don't -- as I read the statute, the statute 6 is complaint-driven. It's not to go in and create 7 the investigations on my own. 8 It's not to go and read the newspaper, and to 9 say, Oh, that's interesting, let's look at that. 10 It's not to go and say, Oh, I think I'll do 11 this today, and start that investigation. 12 I believe the statute is written as a -- 13 complaint-driven investigations, to look at it and 14 to see, pursuant to how the statute is written, Does 15 it follow, this? Is there enough to begin an 16 investigation? 17 I don't intend to rewrite the law. 18 I don't intend to write new parts of the law. 19 I intend to follow the law as it's written. 20 SENATOR O'MARA: And with your experience in 21 prosecution, and I'm a former prosecutor myself, 22 obviously, you get a broad range of discretion in 23 the District Attorney's Office, in the AG'S Office, 24 on how you're going to approach something, if you're 25 going to take something on. 1 And I think, based on the positions you've 2 had in your resume, you've obviously had a great 3 deal of that personal discretion in the roles that 4 you've held, I think, from looking at your resume 5 here, and I think that's going be critical. 6 We're going into a political realm here, 7 where you've really been in a criminal kind of 8 setting before, and, politics comes into play. 9 Oftentimes complaints are filed for 10 political-maneuvering reasons. 11 And, can you give me your thoughts on how 12 you're going to approach those types of things, in 13 weighing and using your discretion on what to pursue 14 or not pursue, given that it's, sometimes, the 15 system is used to make a candidate look bad in the 16 media. 17 RISA SUGARMAN: In my estimation, politics 18 has no place in an investigation. 19 I know that there are complaints that are 20 filed by, perhaps, one candidate against another. 21 I think that any complaint has to be at least 22 looked at on a superficial, initial level, with the 23 understanding that there's always in the background 24 a motive that's being used to -- to review that 25 complaint. 1 A superficial review does not mean a 2 deep-dive investigation. 3 So, I don't see myself as being partisan or 4 political in any investigation. 5 I don't intend, nor have I ever, investigated 6 anything in the press. 7 I don't see myself, nor would I ever, issue a 8 press release, or issue a -- have a press 9 conference, that an investigation is being 10 conducted, or is being contemplated, or will be 11 begun, or a complaint will be filed. 12 That's not what this statute is designed to 13 do, nor does it have any benefit in an 14 investigation. 15 I don't intend to interfere with the 16 political process or campaign, and I will not allow 17 a political process to interfere with what I do in 18 my investigations. 19 SENATOR O'MARA: Since you -- you know 20 generally what range your salary might be in. 21 Do you have any general idea what your budget 22 of your office would be, or what your thoughts or 23 plans are for staffing, or how you're going go about 24 that? 25 RISA SUGARMAN: I know what was in the 1 budget, or I've been told, but I don't know whether 2 that has to be shared with compliance. 3 So I know I would like to hire investigators, 4 attorneys, auditors, and analysts, but I can't say 5 until I get there, to know what I would like to 6 hire. 7 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you. 8 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Senator Squadron. 9 SENATOR SQUADRON: Thank you. 10 Just a follow-up from Senator O'Mara who was 11 asking (inaudible) questions. 12 There have been good people who have come to 13 the board of elections (inaudible) to people there 14 now, people have often found to be a frustrating 15 place. 16 What do you think is going to be different, 17 both, in about this role, or (inaudible) this role 18 [inaudible] going to make it, that may make you able 19 to carry out sort of non-political, objective 20 enforcement mechanism that (inaudible)? 21 RISA SUGARMAN: I'm sorry, I'm not sure that 22 I understand. 23 Compared to what I've done in the past? 24 SENATOR SQUADRON: No, compared to the 25 Board of Elections, to the extent you're familiar 1 with the Board Of elections. 2 RISA SUGARMAN: You know, I really am not 3 familiar with the workings. I don't know the people 4 there. 5 I think that going in there with a clean 6 slate is a benefit, because I don't have 7 preconceived notions of what's -- what's gone on 8 there before. 9 I hope to go in and look, and work with the 10 people who are there, to help me, and get myself 11 acclimated to what's going on there. 12 I -- when I went into the criminal 13 investigations division at tax, it was -- it was a 14 place that was facing an inspector general's report, 15 so it was somewhere that was in disarray. 16 It was a place that people looked upon that 17 was not a good place to work. That people didn't 18 trust the people who worked there. 19 And in the last 15 months, I worked with my 20 director to turn that around. To work with the 21 people who knew what was going on, to make it clear 22 that the people who were the subject of that report 23 were only a few of the over 160 people that worked 24 in that division. 25 And I was successful in doing that. 1 We took an approach, that the people who 2 worked here were good and hard-working, and that 3 they were -- they were committed to the work that 4 they do, and they did a good job. 5 And I think that that's what needs to be done 6 in any job that I've ever done, and I've had -- 7 I didn't have a problem doing that anywhere that 8 I worked. 9 So, I think that I can take that experience 10 in turning around that unit at tax, and do the same 11 thing, if need be, to do it there. 12 So, going in and working with people who are 13 committed to the work that they do at that 14 organization, is something that I have done just 15 recently. And I have no problem, and I have 16 confidence that I can do it. 17 SENATOR SQUADRON: And to the extent there 18 are structural statutory limitations that make that 19 more difficult han it's been in the past, or 20 impossible, despite the experience (inaudible), 21 I hope that you see part of your role as coming back 22 to the Legislature, regularly, to ask that you, 23 both, identify for us areas which the law more 24 broadly could be fixed, needs to question, and, ways 25 the structure of your role, especially, can better 1 (inaudible). 2 I just want to make sure that you see part of 3 your role, as you help build this to work, but also 4 to make it more effective. 5 RISA SUGARMAN: Okay. 6 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Senator Kennedy. 7 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you very much. 8 I look forward to casting a vote in favor of 9 you. 10 Your resume is extraordinary. 11 I'm glad that Senator O'Mara brought up some 12 of the things that he did, you know, and I think 13 Senator Squadron dovetailed on it as well. 14 You know, oftentimes, when you get into -- 15 you know, we are trained to separate the politics 16 from the government. We have to, by law. 17 The Board of Elections, oftentimes those 18 lines get blurred. 19 And, how do we -- and, you know, as 20 Senator O'Mara had mentioned, you know, in your 21 position, you are going to be the chief enforcer of 22 the law, which is black-and-white, in an agency, if 23 not even just at the state level, going down to the 24 local levels, that line between politics and 25 government gets blurred. 1 How can we be sure that there won't be -- 2 that you will bring a sort of professionalism that 3 will help to dictate, at every level; not just in 4 the state, but, again, down to the various counties 5 that we represent, that same professionalism, that 6 same black-and-white, where we can unblur the lines, 7 and where we're not having witch hunts set off 8 because there's a political attack on someone 9 publicly? 10 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Can you repeat the 11 question? 12 SENATOR KENNEDY: Sure. 13 Let me start over. 14 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: No, don't start over. 15 [Laughter.] 16 RISA SUGARMAN: I think that when I was 17 chief -- the way that I can answer that is, that 18 when I was the chief of homicide, one of my roles 19 for the district attorney, and it didn't happen 20 often, but one of the responsibilities that I had 21 was to decide if there wasn't sufficient evidence to 22 hold someone in custody after an initial arrest for 23 a homicide. 24 That decision fell to me; so, that, if we 25 made the -- there was a decision made that there 1 wasn't probable cause enough, and not sufficient 2 evidence, to go forward, at the arrest stage, on a 3 homicide case, it was my responsibility to tell the 4 police department, You have to release this person 5 and get more evidence. 6 Now, that, very often, didn't sit well with 7 both the police department and the family of the 8 decedent. 9 So, the pressure -- and it's not the 10 political pressure that you're talking about -- but 11 the pressure that was put upon me for the district 12 attorney, and he relied on me to make that decision 13 because of my experience, it was my responsibility 14 to make that. And, I followed the law. 15 It wasn't -- I very often had police 16 officers, detectives, lieutenants, captains, 17 deputy inspectors, yelling at me: I don't care what 18 you say. We're going to bring this person in and 19 we're going to process him and we're going to bring 20 him to central booking. 21 And it was, like, Well, you're not getting 22 further than central booking, because my people are 23 not going to write up the complaints. 24 And then the families of the victims would 25 say, Well, how can you possibly do that? 1 The other situations that were my 2 responsibility were investigations of custody 3 deaths. 4 So, in those situations where people died in 5 custody, we had the families of the victims, the 6 police departments, and, many times, community 7 representatives. 8 And those also fell to me to make the 9 determinations of whether or not the cases would 10 immediately proceed to grand jury, and what would 11 happen in the grand jury. 12 So, in those 10 years, during the course of 13 when I was chief, I was called upon to make those 14 determinations. 15 So, I think that I've had the experience. 16 I tell people that I have my Wonder Woman 17 bracelets, and that's how I have been called upon to 18 make those decisions. 19 I have that experience. 20 SENATOR KENNEDY: That was a great answer. 21 And the -- I suppose, just to further that, 22 the dialogue here, I know we're pressed for time 23 here, but, you know, when those things were 24 happening, did you see -- was this a public 25 pressure, or simply internal? 1 RISA SUGARMAN: It was both. 2 SENATOR KENNEDY: Because everything we do is 3 public. 4 RISA SUGARMAN: It was both. 5 I have had people go on television and say 6 that the police officers killed their loved ones in 7 cold blood. 8 And cases proceeded into the grand jury, and 9 the officers were found justified in what they did 10 on those particular nights. 11 So those -- and there were -- I was in the 12 DA's Office, I was hired by Marian Roloff (ph.), 13 I worked for Robert Johnson (inaudible). 14 So, it was in both situations. 15 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you. 16 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Senator Flanagan. 17 SENATOR FLANAGAN: In listening to part of 18 your answer, to kind of oversimplify, who do you 19 believe that you report to, or who do you work for? 20 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: In the new job. 21 RISA SUGARMAN: Well, I think that it's an 22 independent appointment, so I'm not sure that what 23 the reporting -- I don't think I report to any 24 person. 25 It's an independent assignment. 1 I'm not sure that I -- I don't think I have a 2 boss. 3 My hiring is independent, so, I mean, I don't 4 report to the Legislature. I don't report to the 5 Governor. I don't report -- you know, I don't think 6 that I have a reporting chief. 7 I think that the decisions that I make, 8 I make referrals to the Board of Elections as to 9 whether a referral should go. 10 They vote. 11 If it's tied, then I untie them. 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And then, as a follow-up, 13 just relating to personnel, based on your answer, 14 I'm assuming that you feel that you have 15 appropriated, if not full discretion, on all -- 16 RISA SUGARMAN: I'm given that by statute. 17 It says in the statute that I have the sole 18 responsibility for hiring. 19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: In that capacity, can you, 20 for example, hire one attorney at 150,000, and one 21 for 20,000? 22 Is that all within your discretion? 23 RISA SUGARMAN: I -- I don't -- I'm not -- 24 I don't know enough about the budgetary, how that 25 would go, but, I guess I could. 1 I don't know. 2 I don't think I would. 3 SENATOR FLANAGAN: One comment, just sort of 4 dovetails on some of the things my colleagues said. 5 I chaired election boards, and I'm also the 6 Co-Chair of the Ethics Committee. 7 I think that, "gotcha," nobody really wants 8 to see that, and we talked about that. 9 To me, one of the appropriate functions of 10 the Board of Elections can be guidance, and setting 11 the appropriate tone, because, particularly, we've 12 had candidates who have never run before. They're 13 the ones who tend to make the most routine or 14 consistent mistakes. 15 So, to the extent that you can help 16 facilitate some of that, in a practical way, I think 17 it would be extremely helpful. 18 RISA SUGARMAN: I can tell you, my next-door 19 neighbor was (inaudible). 20 So, I had never run before, and I had my 21 next-door neighbor (inaudible), so, I agree with 22 you. 23 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Senator Krueger. 24 SENATOR KRUEGER: Senator Flanagan actually 25 closed off right where I was going start. 1 I had the opportunity to meet with 2 Ms. Sugarman, and had exactly that discussion 3 about how you balance a responsibility to enforce 4 the law, with the need, in my opinion, to offer 5 guidance and education to candidates, people who are 6 involved with election committees, elected officials 7 themselves. 8 I come to my perspective, after 12 years 9 here, in believing that the vast majority of us, and 10 the people who hope to hold elected office in state, 11 do so with the best of intentions, but, that the 12 requirements are extraordinarily complicated, and 13 they can be relatively "not English" for those who 14 are not familiar with the concepts of election law, 15 which I have learned over the years aren't really 16 like others. 17 There's enormous amounts of precedent, as 18 opposed to court determinations. 19 And I was very impressed with the nominee's 20 credentials, overall, but, also, her perspective of 21 believing that her job was to, you know, go "gotcha" 22 when necessary, but, mostly, try to make sure that 23 people understood what the law is, where the gray 24 area is, how not to stop over the bounds. 25 And I thought that the creation of this, 1 which we were smart enough to put into statute, 2 would help assure that, in the future, those who are 3 in office, and those hoping to go into office, will 4 have much clearer -- a much clearer road map to 5 follow, and access to information, to make sure that 6 they do understand what the law allows and doesn't 7 allow. 8 And the only, I suppose, point I would make, 9 in response to your explaining your own history with 10 homicide: In politics, it's much more likely to be 11 suicide than homicide. 12 [Laughter.] 13 SENATOR KRUEGER: So it may be a -- there may 14 be a new set of issues for you. 15 And I look forward to being (inaudible). 16 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Anyone else? 17 I just wanted to, I think -- I know I used 18 the same word when we met: the "gotcha" mentality. 19 I mean, anybody that runs for office has got 20 either a genetic defect or a screw loose, because 21 it's always -- you do one little thing, and it's 22 amplified, and it's usually done the last two weeks 23 of the election. 24 And, of course, there's a full investigation 25 being claimed by one member of the Board of 1 Elections, if it's a local one, or otherwise. 2 So, that, to me, is the most important thing. 3 And, this is a piece of cake, this job for 4 you, if you were in your position in the Bronx on 5 homicides, supervising cowboys and cowgals who were 6 doing homicide cases, and dealing with the police 7 and everyone else. 8 So, that balance is why I think you're an 9 excellent nominee by the Governor, because I think 10 you've put everything in perspective, because you've 11 had to do that. 12 And that's my only point. 13 The only other question I had is: 14 One of the biggest problems we have all the 15 time in elections law, is petitions; whether good 16 petitions, bad petitions, some even have filed, you 17 know, objections, and so forth. 18 Don't you think it would be a great idea to 19 eliminate the petition process; if a party nominates 20 you, you don't have to file petitions? 21 Don't you think it would be a great idea? 22 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I advise you not to 23 answer. 24 [Laughter.] 25 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: But I do have a question, 1 I think a little more serious than 2 Senator DeFrancisco's constant pitch for his 3 agenda. 4 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: This is only for the 5 Senate, people that volunteer, that have to just 6 carry -- 7 [Laughter.] 8 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: I also served as an 9 electional chair. 10 I'm now Chairman of the Codes Committee. 11 You have much different definitions in 12 criminal law than we do in the election law. 13 And that's, I guess, if there's one message, 14 I could leave you with that experience, is that 15 they're so different areas of the law. 16 One gives you a very finite blueprint from 17 which to work, which you are, obviously, skilled at 18 doing. 19 The election law is much more different, 20 much -- and we talked about this at my first 21 question. 22 Please understand that gray area. 23 And as Senator Krueger says, the road map is 24 out there, while the problem is, the tire tracks are 25 over everybody when that happens. 1 So, we want to work with you. 2 We want to help you develop appropriate 3 compliance-education processes. 4 And that -- with that, Mr. Chairman, thank 5 you for allowing me that last comment. 6 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Thank you very much. 7 I didn't allow it, you just jumped in. 8 [Laughter.] 9 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Senator Larkin. 10 Oh, do you want to move the nomination? 11 Moved by Senator Larkin, seconded by 12 Senator O'Mara. 13 All in favor? 14 (All in favor say "Aye.") 15 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Opposed? 16 The nominee is -- the nomination is moved to 17 the full floor. 18 Congratulations. 19 We have one more nomination, and this is -- 20 this is Lawrence Waldman as trustee of SUNY. 21 Senator Krueger raised an issue, and I would 22 like her to state it. 23 I think maybe Senator LaValle has some 24 information that might shed some light on the issue, 25 it would be great. 1 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you. 2 Thank you. 3 Yes, when I was reviewing the resume -- 4 SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator Krueger, could you 5 wait until -- 6 SENATOR KRUEGER: Certainly. 7 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Ms. Sugarman, I don't 8 want to kick you out, but I really do, because we 9 want to continue. 10 All right? 11 I want to get home tonight. 12 Okay, Senator Krueger. 13 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, Mr. Waldman is not a 14 paid nominee, and, so, does not need to appear. 15 When I was reviewing his resume materials, he 16 is, among his other roles, of the -- the treasurer 17 of something called the "Advanced Energy Research 18 Technology Center at Stony Brook." 19 Now, I am actually familiar with the center, 20 and I think it does extraordinary work, and it's a 21 consortium of both private businesses and 22 universities and research centers from around the 23 state, the entire region. 24 My concern, and question is: If he has 25 fiduciary responsibilities as the treasurer of a 1 private-public partnership center on one SUNY 2 campus, is there, potentially, a conflict for him in 3 making decisions on the SUNY board? 4 And, does there need to be some clarification 5 that he would recuse himself for decisions involving 6 this entity which he is the treasurer of? 7 And I could not figure out, to make it all 8 one question, Senator LaValle, whether the AERCC 9 was, technically, a division of SUNY, a separate 10 not-for-profit corporation, and whether they owned 11 or lease the building? 12 SENATOR LAVALLE: It's a center of 13 excellence -- 14 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes. 15 SENATOR LAVALLE: -- within SUNY. 16 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes. 17 SENATOR LAVALLE: It was created with public 18 dollars. 19 And I -- if there -- we have a SUNY board 20 member that is on the fundraising, the foundation. 21 And when he went on the SUNY board, the question 22 was: Did he have to step down from the foundation? 23 And the answer was "no." 24 Mr. Waldman is gubernatorial appointment. 25 As you probably saw, this is the second 1 appointment for him from the Governor. 2 He served as chairman of the LIPA board. 3 He is an accountant. 4 I don't know if anyone ever lived with or was 5 very good friends with an accountant. 6 I lived in the home of an accountant, and 7 they make sure that every "i" is dotted and every 8 "t" is crossed. 9 He is probably one of the more prestigious 10 members of the Nassau Suffolk County region. 11 You can see he serves in a number of 12 positions with the LIA, which is like a partnership, 13 the Chamber of Commerce for Long Island. 14 And this experience, and the other 15 experiences that he has, which is diverse, you see 16 he's on the Hofstra -- he's an adjunct professor at 17 Hofstra, he is on the Dean's Council at Hofstra. 18 And at the time when we have Start-Up NY, and 19 we have a major issue at SUNY, which Mr. Waldman 20 would be -- with his accounting experience, 21 financial experience, would be an excellent person. 22 So -- so to end up kind of where I started, 23 was that, if it was found that it would be a 24 conflict, in a nanosecond, Mr. Waldman would -- 25 would probably leave that position, because he's the 1 kind of person that, given the broader 2 responsibility of the SUNY board, and the time that 3 that requires, he probably would even step down, 4 would be my guess. 5 SENATOR KRUEGER: So I appreciate the 6 analysis of his credentials. 7 I think his credentials are extraordinary. 8 That was never a question for me. His credentials 9 were excellent. 10 And I am extraordinarily impressed with the 11 entity, the AERTC, and what it's doing. 12 And, again, what I wanted to make sure went 13 on the record in this room, before we confirmed him, 14 was that, if there were conflicts, that he would 15 actually not be voting in that situation on the SUNY 16 board. 17 But I -- there was another question in there. 18 Is it a separate legal entity? 19 Because it appears to have its own board, its 20 own foundation. 21 So, you described it as a center of 22 excellence within SUNY, Stony Brook. 23 SENATOR LAVALLE: Within Stony Brook. 24 SENATOR KRUEGER: But is it also a separate 25 corporate entity? 1 SENATOR LAVALLE: No. 2 No, it is not. 3 SENATOR KRUEGER: Is that, even though it 4 describes having a -- 5 SENATOR LAVALLE: It is a public entity, part 6 of the State University of New York. It is a center 7 of excellence. 8 SENATOR KRUEGER: And is that consistent with 9 other centers of excellence, where they have their 10 own board of directors and foundations that are 11 not -- I guess, if there's money in their 12 foundation, is that SUNY money, or is that some 13 separate entity, foundation -- 14 SENATOR LAVALLE: Each campus has a 15 foundation. 16 So there is a SUNY, Stony Brook foundation. 17 SENATOR KRUEGER: But when I went on the 18 website for this entity, it appeared to have its own 19 foundation, separate from a SUNY, Stony Brook 20 foundation, that seemed to have a list of board 21 members, with titles, separate from a SUNY board or 22 a Stony Brook board. 23 So I was -- and what I could not find any 24 clarification of, is it legally a separate corporate 25 structure? 1 SENATOR LAVALLE: I don't believe so. 2 SENATOR KRUEGER: Okay. 3 So, I would just like to say on the record, 4 I'm assuming everything Senator LaValle and the 5 Governor's Office did in vetting, in recommending 6 him, is all good. 7 Because, again, his credentials appear 8 extraordinary, and appropriate to be a SUNY board 9 member, trustee. 10 And the work of this entity also appears to 11 be extraordinary. 12 So, work I have actually done with somebody 13 working with them. 14 I just want to go on the record, that it is 15 my hope that if, at some time, there was some 16 decision being made by the SUNY board, that appeared 17 to be specific to the funding or decision-making 18 about this center and their relationship with SUNY, 19 that that might be somewhere he would need to recuse 20 himself. 21 I'm certainly not suggesting that he needs to 22 step down from this center. 23 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: We run into those 24 questions all time, was, recusal by Senator Breslin. 25 So I'm sure, based on his record, and his 1 background, I can't imagine he wouldn't have the 2 same response. 3 SENATOR STAVISKY: I want to agree with what 4 Senator Krueger said. 5 Has staff, in any way, checked either the 6 990 form or any of the forms that the foundations 7 are required to file, to make sure that they are 8 totally separate, particularly in terms of the SUNY 9 foundation? 10 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: I'm sure we haven't. 11 This is first it was raised, maybe an hour 12 ago. 13 SENATOR LAVALLE: Senator Krueger? 14 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Do you want to say 15 something? 16 Excuse me, Senator. 17 Could you let Senator Krueger -- 18 Senator Marcellino, he hasn't had the chance yet. 19 SENATOR STAVISKY: But I haven't had an 20 answer to my question. 21 SENATOR LAVALLE: I just wanted to say that, 22 under the Public Officers Law, which they go, SUNY, 23 they file the whole disclosure. 24 He would have to recuse himself, under the 25 Public Officers Law. 1 SENATOR STAVISKY: I mean, I'm sure that 2 I can take Senator LaValle's word that he's -- you 3 know, and I know he's not going to jeopardize his 4 standing as an accountant you know, a licensed CPA. 5 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Senator Marcellino. 6 SENATOR MARCELLINO: My comment is, why don't 7 we just submit Liz's question to the gentleman? 8 What's our time frame tonight? 9 SENATOR STAVISKY: Well, let's do it. 10 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: I think they've already 11 agreed that they believe that he will recuse 12 himself. 13 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yeah. 14 SENATOR MARCELLINO: But he might not have 15 to. 16 SENATOR KRUEGER: I just wanted to be on 17 record that this was a concern raised, that 18 I assumed everyone would be -- would assure, in the 19 future, was addressed. 20 I don't want to delay his confirmation. 21 SENATOR STAVISKY: Neither do I. 22 SENATOR KRUEGER: I don't have any basis to 23 want to do that. 24 SENATOR STAVISKY: Neither do I. 25 SENATOR LARKIN: Move to confirmation. 1 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: There's a motion by 2 Senator Martins to move the confirmation -- 3 SENATOR LARKIN: Seconded. 4 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: -- move the nomination, 5 and seconded by Senator Larkin. 6 All in favor? 7 (All in favor say "Aye.") 8 SENATOR DEFRANCISCO: Opposed? 9 The nominee is approved to go before the full 10 Senate. 11 And, the meeting is adjourned. 12 (The New York State Senate Standing 13 Committee on Finance adjourned at approximately 14 5:17 p.m.) 15 16 ---oOo--- 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25