PUBLIC FORUM/TOWN HALL AGRICULTURE REGULATORY REFORM - TO LEARN FROM BUSINESSES AND INDUSTRY EXPERTS WHICH REGULATIONS ARE THE LEAST USEFUL, LEAST COST EFFECTIVE AND THEREFORE SHOULD BE ELIMINATED

Christmas tree farm in 6 Oswego County, New York 7 ---oOo--- 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 SENATOR RITCHIE: I'd like to thank everyone 2 for coming today. 3 I certainly want to thank my colleagues, 4 Senator Gallivan, who sits on the Senate Agriculture 5 Committee; Senator Valesky, who also sits on the 6 Agriculture Committee; and my colleague 7 Senator Marchione, who has been a strong advocate 8 for the agricultural industry, and represents rural 9 communities also. 10 We're here today because I reached out to my 11 colleagues in the Senate, to ask them to come up and 12 talk about regulatory reform as it deals with 13 agriculture. 14 And I know from many who are here today, I've 15 heard firsthand from you, all the rules and 16 regulations that you have to deal with. 17 And I believe this is a perfect opportunity 18 for my colleagues to hear directly from you, and for 19 us to go back to Albany and try to deal with it. 20 This industry is a $5-billion industry that 21 supports the state's economy. 22 And I think, for many, we actually see 23 farming and agriculture as the ultimate small 24 business. 25 Just on the state level, there's so many 1 agencies that those in the room have to deal with. 2 And just to name a few: 3 The Department of Health, the Department of 4 Labor, DEC, Tax and Finance, DOT, Ag and Markets, 5 and the State Liquor Authority. 6 And I think today is the perfect opportunity 7 for us to hear directly from you about some of the 8 issues that you're dealing with. 9 And I know, for me, right after I was 10 elected, I met with some local farmers who told me 11 one of the first issues was a blue-card problem. 12 And I know Senator Marchione is familiar 13 because, as a former county clerk, a farmer has to 14 fill it out. 15 And as the years went on, they limited the 16 miles that you could travel with the farm plates to 17 twenty-five, but never got rid of the onerous 18 blue card, that you have to list all the routes and 19 the distances for each vehicle. 20 So, for me, I got a little frustrated that, 21 my colleagues here, we passed it three years in a 22 row to the Senate, and it never made it to the floor 23 in the Assembly. 24 So, I for one would like to thank the three 25 of them for making the big trip up here today, to 1 hear directly from those who work in the agriculture 2 industry, and certainly appreciate their big trips 3 up. 4 Thank you. 5 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thanks, Senator. 6 And thank you, everybody, for being here 7 today. 8 You may or may not have seen this in the 9 news, but a recent report from the United States 10 Chamber of Commerce, called the "Enterprising States 11 Report," identified New York State as having the 12 worst business climate in the nation: 50th out of 13 50 states. 14 It's no secret what led to this distinction. 15 I mean, we know that taxes are high, among 16 the highest taxed, among the highest in the country, 17 of course, but just as burdensome is that other half 18 of it, that so-called "death by a thousand cuts," 19 that regulatory environment. 20 We look at hundreds and thousands. 21 There are over 140,000 pages of regulations 22 in New York State, when you add them all together -- 23 together. 24 Many are outdated, many are duplicative. 25 They raise the cost of doing business. 1 They siphon away resources. 2 They keep people from wanting to grow their 3 business in New York State, from wanting to move in 4 the state. 5 And, of course, they cost to combine jobs, 6 and lead our kids to try to go to so-called 7 "greener pastures." 8 So, we came together in a bipartisan manner 9 in the Senate, with a goal of looking at this entire 10 regulatory environment in an industry-specific 11 manner: 12 Agriculture, New York's number one industry, 13 is one of them; manufacturing, health, insurance, 14 financial services, and so on, to try to actually 15 drill down and identify those that are the most 16 costly, the most ridiculous, the most outdated, the 17 ones that make no sense, with a goal -- a beginning 18 goal, of eliminating at least 1,000 of these 19 regulations. 20 Now, we don't want to eliminate just 1,000, 21 but, we've identified that as a start. 22 We can only do that, though, with your help, 23 I mean, when it relates to agriculture, and those 24 that live in those other worlds, manufacturing, 25 financial services, and so on. 1 So, we are actually conducting a series of 2 ten of these across the state. 3 And with Senator Ritchie as Chair of 4 Agriculture, she had asked us to come on up here, 5 and thought this would be a very good place for us 6 to deal with an agriculture-related hearing. 7 So that's what we're going to do today. 8 And we have, I think, a great range of the 9 industry represented in our presenters today. 10 And, we're going to ask when, just 11 logistic-wise, that people come up, we'll try to 12 stick with the times; we'll try to stay on time, out 13 of respect for everyone's time, and how far some 14 people traveled. 15 And then, of course, we hope that everybody 16 becomes available for follow-up as we're looking to 17 put this together. 18 But, we really do appreciate the fact that 19 you're willing to be here today. 20 And you should know that this is really an 21 earnest effort to try to do something about this, 22 and not just deal with those great big things that 23 we hear all the time, but those things, like the 24 blue card, that have become outdated, and some other 25 things that we would otherwise never know about 1 without your input. 2 So we appreciate you being here, and I look 3 forward to hearing everybody's testimony. 4 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you, 5 Senator Gallivan, Senator Ritchie. 6 It's always nice to be back in your 7 Senate District where it's always warm and sunny 8 365 days a year. 9 Right? 10 We wish. 11 Just to add a couple of other housekeeping 12 items to what Senator Gallivan has already talked 13 about: 14 Those of you who are testifying, we have you 15 in about 10-minute increments. 16 Don't feel that you have to read your 17 testimony. 18 If you'd like to summarize it, that's fine as 19 well. 20 And we may or may not have some follow-up 21 questions after that. 22 The other thing is, if you did bring enough 23 copies for all of us, if you could share those with 24 us. 25 If you don't have multiple copies, we can 1 maybe, through Todd, as the afternoon goes on, make 2 sure that we make copies for all the panelists. 3 So, we're very much looking forward to 4 hearing all of your input here this afternoon. 5 SENATOR MARCHIONE: It's an honor for me to 6 be here with all of you. 7 Regulation reform has been a very important 8 part of why I became a senator. 9 I feel that there are way too many 10 regulations, that unfunded mandates are killing our 11 small governments, and the taxpayers are paying much 12 higher prices, and businesses are hurting. 13 This is a very important hearing. 14 As Senator Ritchie said, I come from a rural 15 district as well. 16 And we really want to hear: 17 What's hurting you? 18 How can we help you? 19 I live in the town of Half Moon in 20 Saratoga County. 21 The regulations, right now, if they were laid 22 end to end, extend more than 12 miles. 23 And, we really need to do better. 24 We are not here to point fingers at anyone. 25 This is a bipartisan effort. 1 We're here to listen to you for one ultimate 2 goal, and that is, just to find solutions, real 3 solutions, to this problem. 4 So, I'm looking very forward to hearing your 5 testimony today. 6 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Our first presenter is 7 Mark Akins, who is a member of the St. Lawrence 8 County Legislature, and a member of 9 Senator Ritchie's Agricultural Advisory Council. 10 Thanks for being here, Mark. 11 MARK AKINS: Thank you. 12 SENATOR GALLIVAN: And when you're ready. 13 MARK AKINS: Thank you, guys, for putting in 14 your time and energy to be here today. 15 You know, this is an incredible opportunity 16 for us, as a local community, to come forward with 17 the knowledge base that you guys have and bring 18 forth to the table. 19 So let me start today by discussing my 20 background with agriculture and county government. 21 I operate a farm, a family farm, of 22 350 Holstein cows and 50 cow-calf Black Angus herd, 23 and we finish about 200 feeders a year for local 24 market. 25 I am a sixth-generation member of our family 1 farm. 2 And my kids are a senior at Cornell and a 3 sophomore at Cortland. 4 So, it's very exciting to be involved with 5 family every day, and that's what really drives our 6 communities. 7 We fall into a medium-sized "CAFO"; you know, 8 concentrated animal-feeding operation, and we're on 9 the small side of a medium, so we're constantly 10 getting crunched by the regulations everyone must 11 live under, but we're always on that short end of 12 the cash-flow stick. 13 So, this mandate is far and above the most 14 costly requirement from New York State for 15 agriculture. 16 It requires us to record detailed records of 17 all nutrients coming into the farm, and, to be used 18 for the farm for growing crops; in other words, all 19 the manure from our animals and fertilizer for our 20 field crops for production purposes. 21 Overall, this is an excellent program. 22 You can't say enough good things about the 23 environmental standards we've gained in the last 24 10 years that this program has interfered with. 25 And what we have discovered, is that the 1 monies that we have invested in these required crop 2 planners have paid us back many times over by 3 lowering fertilizer inputs and/or increasing the 4 yields of field crops. 5 So, overall, that program is great. 6 The limitations of the CAFO is where the 7 water and leachate containment systems operate. 8 These rules mandate accurate recordkeeping of 9 daily temperatures, precipitations, amounts of 10 manure in storage, with calibration tools. 11 Technology has far outpaced what these 12 requirements are. 13 There's many things today in the market, just 14 like weather.com, they're much more accurate than my 15 personal records or any other farmer's records, and, 16 they're at the touch of a button. 17 So why aren't we able to use that type of 18 technology, rather than recording paper after paper 19 every day throughout the course of the year? 20 Those are very simple things to be able to 21 accomplish. 22 The less air -- oh, I'm sorry. 23 I could spend hours on details of the CAFO 24 permits that technology can exist, and I don't think 25 we have that much time today, but we want to start 1 the track, where we can use technology more than 2 physical inputs. 3 And I'll leave it at that. 4 If you have more questions, I'll be happy to 5 follow up with lots of answers. 6 Okay? 7 The better -- the final thing of the medium 8 CAFOs, if we want a more balanced output, we have to 9 get more balanced people making the rules. 10 Civil engineers and environmental engineers 11 sometimes don't get the best product and the most 12 realistic product today on the operating farm. 13 Today's farms are very technology-advanced, 14 and, they have a very unique atmosphere because 15 everything goes wrong on a farm every day. 16 So, sometimes it's not a perfect environment 17 and you have to learn how to adapt; and who better 18 to adapt than people that are familiar with the 19 rules of what they're trying to accomplish. 20 But don't get me wrong, we have made great 21 strides in the 10 years that these programs are 22 involved, so let's be patient and see how much more 23 we can gain. 24 We don't have to reinvent the wheel here; we 25 just tweak it here and there, because, overall this 1 is a great program. 2 I don't believe that these CAFO requirements 3 impede business expansions. 4 It may require that we operate more with 5 environmental concerns, but I truly believe that 6 most farms have the environment in their best 7 interests. 8 With us personally, our two major concerns 9 are operating margins and obtaining a stable 10 workforce. 11 It may not be a mandate, but a nonaction is 12 the same thing as overaction. 13 The lack of an immigration bill continues to 14 force agricultural employers to a dangerous cliff. 15 We cannot continue to ignore thousands of 16 agricultural employees in New York State currently 17 doing an outstanding job with little to no 18 recognition or relief. 19 We need to act sooner, rather than later. 20 Secondly, I'm currently a member of the 21 St. Lawrence County Board of Legislators. 22 This is where I see the place to start 23 cleaning up our real act, and where real progress 24 can come on board. 25 We have layers upon layers of bureaucrats. 1 This surplus adds costs, fees, and 2 establishes roadblocks to every project that crosses 3 our desks. 4 The most frustrating and potentially 5 detrimental aspect to a project's success is cash 6 flow. 7 Any monies received by an organization must 8 be fronted, spent, and invoiced before hoping for 9 funding. 10 The nature of a project, is that there are 11 always delays, twists, and turns along the way. 12 Projects should have potential funding 13 mechanisms to reserve partial funding along the way 14 after reaching clearly defined milestones that are 15 established before prior start dates. 16 We had a project approved March 5, 2013. 17 A contract from New York State usually takes 18 about two months for signatures and start dates. 19 We are currently being told that we may not 20 see this contract before the first of the year. 21 Round 18 funding, last year's funding, 22 producers submitted vouchers last January 22nd, and 23 payment wasn't made until after July 18th. 24 In reality, this means that producers had to 25 pay for a project seven months before promised 1 reimbursements were made. 2 These projects run in the hundreds of 3 thousands of dollars, and these projects are not 4 usually for the producer's benefit, rather, for the 5 betterment of the society and environment. 6 I understand checks and balances are needed 7 with public monies. 8 My one recommendation, would be to place 9 responsibilities with people that have boots on the 10 ground: experiences, knowledge of the projects, and 11 the ability to approve funding in a timely fashion. 12 In order to be truly transformational, we 13 need to empower our current employees and remove 14 layers of processing. 15 Thank you again. 16 I hope I've piqued some interest in your 17 minds, but this is a huge process. 18 And if it was simple, it would have been done 19 years ago. 20 But each problem has started and evolved, and 21 it has to be changed over a long deal of time. 22 Okay? 23 Thank you. 24 And do you have any questions? 25 1 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you very much for 2 your time. 3 SENATOR RITCHIE: Thank you, Mark. 4 SENATOR MARCHIONE: If you were to pick one 5 regulation that's the most difficult for you, that 6 you would like to see removed, which would it be? 7 MARK AKINS: One regulation, are you speaking 8 from the farm standpoint? 9 SENATOR MARCHIONE: I am, absolutely. 10 Yes. 11 MARK AKINS: Okay. 12 To allow us to use technology. 13 SENATOR MARCHIONE: Okay. 14 MARK AKINS: And let me go a step farther. 15 If you compare my father's generation to my 16 generation, to my son's generation, okay, it's very 17 unique, because, my father just shakes his head at 18 me, and I don't understand what my son's talking 19 about. 20 [Laughter.] 21 MARK AKINS: So, this is an evolvement. 22 This technology that we should be able to use 23 is going to be outdated probably as soon as it's 24 implemented, according to the next generation. 25 We can't keep up with the newest cell phone, 1 much less the GPS standards and the reporting 2 standards. 3 So that's the challenge. 4 And I don't know if there's an easy answer to 5 it, but technology makes everybody's life, from 6 reporting, to accurate recordkeeping of the past, 7 much more available. 8 SENATOR MARCHIONE: Thank you. 9 MARK AKINS: Thanks. 10 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Mark, I had wanted to ask 11 you about the technology that you had commented on 12 earlier, and not for right now, but are you able to 13 provide us something more specific; the more 14 specific examples where technology could be used? 15 MARK AKINS: I'll be happy to. 16 Would you like a list? 17 SENATOR GALLIVAN: That would be wonderful -- 18 MARK AKINS: Okay. 19 SENATOR GALLIVAN: -- if we're able to follow 20 up with you and get those. 21 MARK AKINS: Absolutely. 22 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Those are exactly the 23 types of things that we're looking for, among 24 others. 25 MARK AKINS: Okay. 1 SENATOR GALLIVAN: The other question has to 2 do with the CAFO rules, in general, and the DEC 3 regulation, I don't know if it was a regulation or 4 the Governor executive order, raising the limit from 5 the -- the under 200, to under 300. 6 MARK AKINS: Yes. 7 SENATOR GALLIVAN: In your view, has that had 8 a positive impact, or will that have a positive 9 impact? 10 Or is that an appropriate number? 11 MARK AKINS: I think the appropriate thing, 12 to me, certain pockets of land can sustain much more 13 viable agriculture than other pockets. 14 So, an arbitrary number, whether it be 200 or 15 whether it be 300, there's plenty of 100-cow farms 16 that don't do justice to the environment, just as 17 well as there's plenty of 2,000-cow farms that do a 18 phenomenal job with the environment. 19 So, I have a hard time whenever you say, 20 there's's a -- but you have to pick a number 21 somewhere; and whether that number is 200 or 300, 22 okay, but let's live with the number, and go 23 forward. 24 I don't know if the number's as important as 25 the ability to evolve into a better system. 1 Because, if you think about soap and acids 2 that go into the environment, chances are, a 100-cow 3 dairy has the exact same wash cycles after milking 4 than what a 500-cow dairy does. 5 And, the soaps and acids are probably one of 6 the biggest pollutants. 7 So, you know, is the number right or wrong? 8 I don't know. 9 I hope that it is. 10 I hope there's people much more knowledgeable 11 out there making that decision than myself, but 12 I think we just have to live with the number, and 13 really be consistent, from farm to farm, and error 14 to error. 15 We're making progress. 16 Whether that's a 200-cow farm, they live 17 under the same -- my understanding of the rules, 18 they live under the same implications if they have 19 an environmental catastrophe as what a 2,000-cow 20 farm does. 21 So just because they may not be a 22 medium-sized farm, they still have to use best 23 operation practices. 24 And, they still over -- they don't have to do 25 the reporting systems, but they still have to 1 operate the same way. 2 They have to be practical with what they're 3 trying to do. 4 So I don't believe the numbers is as big a 5 deal as the actual environmental impact of where 6 they're operating. 7 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Okay. 8 MARK AKINS: Does that answer your question? 9 Probably not. 10 SENATOR GALLIVAN: It lends some insight. 11 I was really just more curious, I mean, about 12 what your thoughts were about that change, in 13 general. 14 MARK AKINS: Do I see it increasing the milk 15 production in the New York State? 16 No. 17 Do I see it as a goodwill effort to try to 18 relieve something? 19 Yeah, but I don't see it as really being 20 solving any issues. 21 SENATOR GALLIVAN: And when we get back to 22 technology, and using technology, that can be 23 helpful? 24 MARK AKINS: If you think of technology, 25 like, the way the planters are set up today, with 1 variable-rate populations, variable-rate fertilizer 2 attachments, variable-rate sprays, those things have 3 much more impact than what that number does, from 4 200, to 300. 5 So let's make -- if we put as much effort 6 towards putting new technology in place, that would 7 have a bigger impact on yield than just changing an 8 arbitrary number, in my opinion. 9 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Excellent. 10 That answers the question. 11 MARK AKINS: Okay. 12 SENATOR GALLIVAN: I may not have asked it 13 very directly, but -- 14 [Laughter.] 15 SENATOR GALLIVAN: That was good. 16 Thanks, Mark. 17 MARK AKINS: Okay. 18 Thank you. 19 SENATOR RITCHIE: Thank you. 20 MARK AKINS: Thanks again. 21 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Our next presenter is 22 Eric Behling. 23 Did I pronounce that right? 24 ERIC BEHLING: Behling. 25 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Behling? 1 Okay, I think I was there. 2 He is with the-- is a board member of the 3 Oswego County Farm Bureau, and also a member of 4 Senator Ritchie's Ag Advisory Council. 5 Thanks for being here. 6 And when you're ready. 7 ERIC BEHLING: And I appreciate the 8 opportunity to be here. 9 I would have brought some honey crisp, but 10 the paperwork involved in getting them here and 11 through the front door and getting it to you was so 12 onerous and time-consuming that I had to forget that 13 part of it. 14 [Laughter.] 15 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Maybe next time. 16 ERIC BEHLING: Come on down. 17 Good afternoon, and thank you for inviting me 18 to this public forum. 19 My name is Eric Behling. 20 I serve on the board of directors for the 21 Oswego County Farm Bureau, which represents a robust 22 farm industry with over 100,000 acres in 23 agricultural production and over 39 million in farm 24 products sold from Oswego County, farms like mine. 25 My brother, my mother, and I co-own 1 Behling Orchards, a you-pick and agritourism farm 2 operation that has grown from the 6-acre farm my 3 grandfather started in the 1960s. 4 Agricultural has fundamentally changed from 5 my grandfather's generation. 6 Believe me, it has. 7 Experience has taught me that family farms 8 like mine must be agile and adapt to my generation's 9 new realities: volatility in the global marketplace, 10 increasingly extreme weather events, and a 11 relentless regulatory burden from government. 12 And the last one, I can say double on that 13 one too. 14 Our farm is not alone in that perspective. 15 Farms of all sizes and commodities identify 16 the myriad of regulatory stresses from the federal 17 and state level as the number one obstacle to 18 business growth, profitability, and in some cases, 19 business survival. 20 Government mandates have become a tangible 21 barrier to our farm families being able to pass 22 their business on to future generations as they 23 compete with foreign competitors who do not have to 24 tolerate such rigorous and expensive regulations. 25 No one wants lesser-quality food from 1 questionable sources, like China, but with the 2 diminishing number of farms in New York State due to 3 a hostile regulatory climate, who will be left 4 standing to fill in the food gap? 5 If food security, public health, and 6 accessibility to local, nutritious, high-quality 7 foods are state priorities, then something must be 8 done to rein in unreasonable regulations that demand 9 extremely high compliance. 10 Costs are consistently nickel, dime -- or as 11 it was mentioned earlier, "of a thousand cuts" -- 12 family farms with little environmental, public 13 health, or any other beneficial gain. 14 Regulatory relief needs to eliminate 15 requirements and fees that are redundant. 16 Dual pesticide registration by the 17 U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and the 18 New York State Department Environmental Conservation 19 is a very clear example of state government 20 performing a duplicate function that offers no 21 additional environmental benefit, and prevents our 22 growers from taking advantage of newer, better, and 23 safer productive products that our neighboring 24 states have been or are already using. 25 Because of this duplicity, New York is known 1 for having the slowest pesticide-product 2 registration process in the nation. 3 New York Farm Bureau supports A531/S155 4 sponsored by Assemblyman-- Assemblywoman, excuse me, 5 Aileen Gunther and Senator Pat Gallivan, for their 6 bill that would eliminate the need for DEC to review 7 and approve these pesticide products that have 8 already been approved by EPA before farmers could 9 use them here in New York. 10 In addition to redundant regulation is the 11 New York State Department of Motor Vehicles. 12 Oh, this is my favorite subject here. 13 Listen up. 14 Requirement to include the blue 15 Certified Farm Vehicle Use form with the farm 16 vehicle's registration, state law limits farm-plated 17 vehicles that travel within a 25-mile radius from 18 the farm address that the vehicle is registered to. 19 Currently, the farmer must also designate any 20 travel routes within that 25-mile radius on a 21 blue card that is kept both in the farm vehicle and 22 filed with the New York State Department of 23 Motor Vehicles. 24 Each time a farmer finds it necessary to 25 travel to a different destination, or uses a 1 different route, he has to make changes to that 2 blue card and reflect that change, and be 3 resubmitted to the New York DMV. 4 And I could go on with that, but I think you 5 already get the gist of that. 6 It just -- Patty and Bill have been working 7 on this, obviously, and they've got legislation in. 8 And as she said earlier, she hasn't been able 9 to get it through the Assembly. 10 The high costs associated with state 11 regulations and the associated fees and tax 12 compliances makes it extremely difficult to maximize 13 our competitive advantage of being close to 14 New York City and its large nexus of consumers. 15 For example, the large majority of New York 16 farms utilize an LLC, C-corp, or S-corp business 17 structure as part of their transition plan to the 18 next generation of family operators. 19 In the eyes of the farm community, LLC is a 20 necessary business tax required for incorporation. 21 It feeds into the state's general fund. 22 If we are to continue to have farms in 23 New York, we have to make it easier for farmers to 24 form LLCs, and, particular, statutorily restructure 25 existing public policy to assess the LLC fee-based 1 on net farm income, as opposed to the current 2 protocol of using gross farm income. 3 LLCs are now assessed a fee based on gross 4 income, not net, and in farming, that difference is 5 vast. 6 Just ask me. 7 A farm can easily gross over a 8 million dollars, especially in today's climate, and 9 the size of our farms, but earn less than several 10 thousands in profit, depending upon how expensive 11 input costs, or, that particular year, how badly 12 yields, weather. 13 Either a flat fee for farm corporations, or, 14 LLCs, C corp or S corp, needs to be established, or 15 a mechanism put into place, that allows farms to 16 provide a Schedule F, a federal tax-income form, for 17 farmers to establish net income and pay the fee on 18 this verified net income amount. 19 Additionally, submission of the LLC 20 application with the associated fee is due by 21 January 31st. 22 It would be easier for farmers to file this 23 form and associated fee on March 1st, not 24 January 31st, with the farmer's tax return, as 25 opposed to submitting them on a separate deadline. 1 Similarity [sic], the publishing requirements 2 for the public notice of the formation of an LLC 3 seem, in this day and age, to be antiquated. 4 These may seem to be trivial changes, but it 5 is important to recognize that pragmatic minor 6 public-policy changes, such as these, are very 7 meaningful, given the wide range of regulatory 8 compliance a family farm must contend with. 9 These and other practical changes included in 10 the Farmers Regulatory Relief Act, sponsored by 11 Senator Ritchie and Assemblyman Magee, would bring 12 meaningful change to daily operations and business 13 costs for our farm and other family farms. 14 There are some regulations that can bolster 15 the farm communities, such as the pending DEC 16 regulations for maple tapping on state lands, 17 similar to the state of Vermont. 18 This type of proactive commonsense regulation 19 that brings parity to the marketplace is what family 20 farms, like mine, need to see more of, not less. 21 Without question, regulatory requirements 22 raise my cost of production that other competitors 23 do not have to deal with. 24 For example, fresh apple cider is a very 25 popular product with the visitors that come to my 1 farm. 2 I make fresh cider from the apples on my 3 farm, and, in compliance with New York's mandatory 4 cider-pasteurization law. 5 I use a UV light (ultraviolet) processing 6 machine to purify our cider before bottling and 7 selling it. 8 State law requires that the ultraviolet-light 9 processor be inspected every three years. 10 The cost for my reinspection this year has 11 tripled since the last time we had it inspected 12 three years ago. 13 The cost for this is -- is like forcing to 14 use the very rare people who do this kind of 15 service, and that are available to -- there's only 16 really one, and he's in Massachusetts to do this. 17 My only alternative is to close down the 18 cider business. 19 I am sure other commodity farms, like my own, 20 have similar examples. 21 As an apple grower, one of the game-changing 22 issues for me and my family are farm-labor mandates. 23 There has been a strong push in the Assembly 24 for factory-style labor mandates to be imposed on 25 family farms. 1 Proponents of legislation that would force 2 these mandates on family farms are based out of 3 New York City, and do not understand the realities 4 of providing nutritious food on people's tables. 5 Attempting to apply overtime and 6 collective-bargaining rules that exist for factories 7 are not appropriate or suitable for our state's 8 farms. 9 Simply put, harvesting crops doesn't fit in a 10 typical work-week schedule. 11 Rainy weather may keep farm employees out of 12 the fields for a couple of days. 13 And when the sun is out, ripe fruit can't 14 always wait for the next day's 8-hour shift to 15 begin. 16 Farms need flexibility that suits their 17 individual needs in order to get our local food to 18 local tables. 19 New York farmers are dependent on quality, 20 skilled agricultural labor, and go through great 21 lengths to ensure safe working, living, and wage 22 conditions for employees. 23 Farm-work agreements required by state law 24 above and beyond the Wage Theft Prevention Act lay 25 out the work to be performed, wages, workdays, and a 1 host of important arrangements. 2 If farm-labor advocates were serious about 3 helping farm employees, they would spend their 4 efforts in Washington advocating for immigration 5 reform, to bring migrant workers who are here in 6 this country with questionable documentation out of 7 the shadows where they can lead more open and 8 productive lives. 9 Family farms, like mine, are extremely 10 vulnerable to any increase in these farm-labor 11 expenses relative to other states. 12 New York farmers already spend substantially 13 more on labor than the national average, and 14 especially compared to most of the major farm states 15 which are some of New York's fiercest competitors 16 for our east-coast markets. 17 According to the U.S. Consensus data, for 18 every $100 of production sold, New York farmers paid 19 $13.82 to farm workers, compared to the U.S. average 20 of $8.88. 21 Thank you, Senators Ritchie, Gallivan, 22 Valesky, and to your Senate colleagues, for keeping 23 these proposed labor mandates at bay. 24 Please continue to oppose such efforts on 25 behalf of your constituents, like me, and farm 1 families across the state. 2 In closing, thank you for the opportunity to 3 provide comments here today. 4 I look forward to working with you toward our 5 common goal of building a farm-friendly business 6 environment here in New York. 7 I would be happy to answer your questions at 8 this time. 9 SENATOR RITCHIE: Eric, just, you talked 10 about DMV. 11 And I know the blue card is something that 12 both Senator Marchione and I are, you know, 13 certainly aware of. 14 What else, when it comes to the DMV, can you 15 think of anything else that we need to look at? 16 ERIC BEHLING: Well, I'm glad you asked that. 17 Recently, I went in to switch over 18 agricultural plates to farm plates, because, we had 19 one vehicle that, no matter what we did, it was very 20 difficult, because of the age of the vehicle, to get 21 it to pass inspection, but, it still passed safety 22 inspection. 23 So, you can license it as a farm vehicle, 24 which was fine. 25 Okay, then we go through the rigmarole with 1 the blue tag, and all that, and the blue card, and 2 all that, which is a pain, like I just said. 3 But, I lost all I had on that registration 4 for the ag vehicle. 5 They said, You either use it or you lose it. 6 So, I'd either have to put it on another 7 vehicle, and this was, like -- I was only, like, a 8 month into the registration, so, I lost all the 9 money I put into that. 10 It was just, phewt, it was gone. 11 So that, in itself, I mean, it's just like 12 another fee, another fee. 13 And I know, Senator Marchione, you asked, 14 what thing in particular? 15 And I think the theme you can get from what 16 I'm saying here, it is, it's like a thousand cuts. 17 Every time I have -- my time at this time of 18 the year, and many other farmers, I mean, we're down 19 to minutes. 20 You know, minutes count. 21 And if I'm am sitting and doing more and more 22 and more paperwork, it's, like, I cannot get out, 23 and, things happen on the farm that I should have 24 been there for. 25 Or, you know, I should have -- I could have 1 used my time a heck of a lot more in taking care of 2 the farm. 3 SENATOR RITCHIE: He answered my question. 4 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Perfect. 5 Just one question, you may not be able to 6 answer, but the proposed, I think it's called the 7 "Farm Workers Rights Act," you talked about applying 8 the manufacturing rules to the labor force on farms. 9 Are you able to -- under what's currently 10 proposed, if you're familiar enough with it, are you 11 able to affix a percentage? 12 Like, how much additional percentage costs? 13 Or, how much in the way of additional labor 14 costs would that mean for you, if you know? 15 ERIC BEHLING: I think in trying to answer 16 your question, it's not necessarily how much -- 17 yeah, it's relative to how much more it's going to 18 cost, but, as far as the time, and time is valuable 19 to a farmer. 20 If I'm forced to make those kind of 21 decisions, I will cut back. 22 I will not hire more people. 23 And, obviously, I will downscale before I get 24 into a position where I'm forced to make these type 25 of things, where I'm, more or less, guaranteeing 1 someone something I cannot guarantee, as far as, 2 days off, when -- especially if we have 3 weather-related incidences where we can't get the 4 crop picked. 5 I mean, the crop doesn't wait. 6 And I think that's true across the board on 7 any commodity: if it's gonna to sit there, we lose. 8 And I think this is very, very important: 9 You cannot have people possibly striking 10 during harvest, and that would be the time that they 11 would want to strike, because they would hit the 12 farmer at the worst time. 13 And, obviously, it doesn't work anywhere else 14 in the world. 15 I don't know why people think it's going to 16 work here in New York. 17 It's -- to have a crop not get picked, hours 18 turn into thousands and thousands of dollars. 19 Even a day late could result in $100,000 for 20 us, particularly at our farm for picking apples. 21 You take the -- you know, we all know what 22 Macintosh is. 23 They're one of the worst apples to try to get 24 harvest, because the day they turn ripe is the day 25 they start dropping. 1 So if you don't get them off, you're not 2 going to get them picked, and, you're not going to 3 be able to pay anybody. 4 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Okay. 5 Thank you. 6 ERIC BEHLING: Thank you. 7 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Jay Matterson, 8 Jefferson County Agriculture Coordinator, and the 9 ag economic developer for Jefferson County IDA. 10 Jay, thanks for being here. 11 When you're ready. 12 JAY MATTERSON: Senators, thank you very much 13 for coming to Jefferson County, the land of milk, 14 honey, and wine. 15 If you'd like to try some of the world's best 16 naturally aged cheddar cheese, you've come to the 17 right county. 18 And I do brag very highly about our county 19 because we have a great agricultural industry. 20 I want to applaud your efforts, and the 21 efforts of your colleagues who are here today to 22 listen to the ag industry. 23 We in agriculture appreciate your partnership 24 in maintaining a strong and healthy ag industry. 25 This partnership is not just about providing 1 safe, healthy food for our dinner table. 2 That's the thing we'll hear commonly, is if 3 our farms go away, where's your food going to come 4 from? 5 There will be people that will provide the 6 food for New York City. 7 It will probably come from a third-world 8 country, or someplace else, that doesn't have the 9 safety-and-health standards that we do. 10 The food will come from someplace. 11 The question is, do you want to eat it? 12 More importantly than that for 13 New York State, is the fact that agriculture helps 14 maintain our rural economies. 15 It is about providing good, solid jobs for 16 our people. 17 Agriculture is about taking the sun, the 18 soil, and the water, and converting those natural 19 resources, which we have in great abundance-- well, 20 sun, sometimes -- those abundant natural resources 21 and making products that we can sell elsewhere, not 22 just to our neighbors, not just here in 23 New York State, not even just here in the 24 United States. 25 We're exporting soy beans, corn, wheat, wine, 1 overseas, and bringing that money back into 2 Belleville, Adams; rural economies. 3 That's what we're doing with agriculture here 4 in New York State. 5 It's not just about putting an ear of corn on 6 our own plates; it's about putting people to work. 7 I've had the opportunity to work in 8 agriculture since 1988. 9 Since 2000, I've served as Jefferson County's 10 Agricultural Coordinator. 11 My primary role, as the title says, is to 12 focus on ag economic development. 13 I've had the great opportunity to help small 14 farmers get started with vegetable operations and 15 roadside stands, and I've also had the great 16 opportunity to help multinational corporations 17 establish feed-manufacturing companies here in 18 Jefferson County. 19 On Tuesday, I had one of the best 20 opportunities; and that was to speak with the state 21 officers and a national officer of FFA. 22 And I think most of you are familiar with 23 FFA. 24 It is a tremendous youth-leadership 25 organization whose foundation is agriculture. 1 The neat part about my conversation with 2 these students is, as I sat down and discussed 3 agriculture, I learned that they came from across 4 New York State. 5 One young lady from Queens. 6 So even New York City has, I think it's the 7 largest FFA chapter in the state, actually, in 8 New York City. 9 Share that with some of your colleagues. 10 The message that I want to share from those 11 discussions, is that they're excited to look forward 12 to a career in agriculture, and, they want to stay 13 here in New York State. 14 These several students want to stay in 15 New York State. 16 They recognize the tremendous opportunity 17 that exists right now to work in agriculture. 18 The greatest barrier, in my opinion -- 19 And you can call me on the table for it if 20 you want, that will be fine. 21 -- the greatest barrier for them is our 22 New York State government. 23 I've watched New York State, in the years 24 that I've been involved, place barrier after barrier 25 in place to keep our businesses from succeeding. 1 I'll answer your question, Senator Gallivan, 2 about the 200- to 300-cow level. 3 The answer to that is: 4 EPA is at 300 cows. 5 New York State set it at 200 cows. 6 Why did we need to go beyond what the 7 Environmental Protection Agency required for their 8 environmental regulations? 9 How long should it take, for a young 10 gentleman here in Jefferson County who wanted to 11 open a farm winery, why should it take month after 12 month after month to get the permits to open that 13 winery, for no good reason? 14 Why does a dairy farmer need to record 15 rainfall and wind-direction data for every day that 16 they operate, when that information, if it's needed, 17 can be pulled off the computer? 18 Why are we not asking commercial bee-keepers 19 what they feel the definition of "pure honey" should 20 be? 21 Instead, we're starting to talk about 22 changing that definition, so that the honey sticks 23 that they produce that have flavors in them, that 24 kids love to eat, has honey in it, they may not be 25 able to sell those as a honey product, because of 1 people, not commercial bee-keepers, trying to make a 2 definition for their products. 3 All of these things I've mentioned, how small 4 or how large they are, have a cumulative impact on 5 our ability to be successful, profitable 6 agricultural businesses, which is what creates the 7 desire of those FFA students that I talked about a 8 few seconds ago. 9 That's what creates their desire: the 10 opportunity to succeed, to be profitable, to be able 11 stay here in New York State. 12 The previous two gentlemen have testified 13 about some very important recommendations, and 14 I know that there is a variety of others that will 15 come, so I'm not going to go too in depth with a lot 16 of recommendations, but I do have a few. 17 First thing I'm going to recommend to you, is 18 to establish a 10-year moratorium on any new, or 19 changes to existing, environmental regulations in 20 New York State impacting our dairy farms. 21 If you want to grow the dairy industry here 22 in New York State, you don't need to change that 23 EPA -- the CAFO threshold. 24 I mean, yeah, it would be nice to have it be 25 at the EPA standard. 1 If you want to grow dairy, just create a 2 stable environment, where our dairy farmers, for the 3 next 10 years, will know what is expected of them as 4 far as environmental regulations. 5 It takes one level of risk out of their 6 business decision-making process, that when they put 7 in the bunk-silo leachate collection system, they 8 might know a year from now that they didn't waste 9 $30,000, because the standards weren't quite right. 10 I believe it was in 2006 that the 11 Second Circuit Court of Appeals here in New York -- 12 and I might have that year wrong, I couldn't find it 13 at the last minute -- but, 2006, the Second Circuit 14 Court of Appeals here in New York, in a ruling, 15 stated that New York's dairy farms are among the 16 most highly regulated in the nation. 17 So let's leave it where it's at. 18 Let's -- we've set a high bar, let's let the 19 farms meet it. 20 Let's not keep changing it. 21 Another item you've already heard about a 22 little bit, and asked some questions about it: 23 Do not pass a Farm Labor Omnibus Bill. 24 And senators that threaten farms, to say, 25 "You know what? 1 You might want to compromise on this, because 2 things are going to change down the road," I'd love 3 to have those senators come up to Jefferson County, 4 and I'll take them on a tour of our dairy farms and 5 let them see how horrible an environment it is for 6 those employees to work in. 7 And if people have daughters, that think it's 8 so bad, I'd welcome them on the tour as well, 9 because the Farm Labor Omnibus Bill will put 10 employees out of work. 11 It will take farms that have full-time 12 employees earning benefits, down to part-time 13 employees. 14 Or, at least that is according to many of the 15 dairy farms that I've talked to about having to pay 16 overtime benefits. 17 If they're required to pay overtime, those 18 employees just became part-time employees. 19 That's not what we want, but that's what our 20 government will force to happen if the Farm Labor 21 Omnibus Bill is passed. 22 Third item I would recommend, is make sure, 23 that when we are passing laws defining "agricultural 24 products," as I mentioned, that we're involving the 25 commercial producers of those products. 1 The example being, our honey producers. 2 You know, that's about a million-dollar 3 industry here in Jefferson County. 4 It's small compared to wine and dairy, but, 5 to those folks that make part of their living from 6 that industry, it's huge. 7 So let's involve them in the decision-making 8 process. 9 Senator Ritchie, I know you've been very 10 active on this. 11 It's not so much a regulation as just a 12 solution: 13 Help our farms find ways to afford 14 three-phase electrical power where it is required to 15 expand their business. 16 That is a barrier across New York State. 17 Our farms tend to be at the end of the line, 18 and our utilities are charging them to put in the 19 infrastructure, then they're charging them for the 20 delivery of that electricity, and they're charging 21 them for the supply of that electricity. 22 I have talked to numerous farms who have said 23 this is a barrier to our growth. 24 If we are serious about growing our milk 25 supply for those Greek-yogurt plants, this is a real 1 barrier to growth in the dairy industry. 2 You've heard a little bit about it, and I'm 3 sure there is going to be more said: 4 Improve the service and efficiency and reduce 5 the fees of permitting processes here in New York. 6 And I'm going to give you an example that was 7 shared with me just before this forum started. 8 A friend of mine who makes a fantastic pepper 9 jam had her own kitchen certified a 50-C -- and 10 I might get that wrong -- 50-C kitchen. 11 She had that certified, she had it permitted. 12 She paid $400 to Ag and Markets to do so. 13 We just started a shared-use 50-C kitchen 14 here in Jefferson County, thanks to some private 15 businesses, and the works of some of the 16 agricultural agencies, like Cooperative Extension. 17 My understanding is, again, I just heard 18 about this before this meeting started, is that, 19 now, she will have to go through the permitting 20 process again. 21 That kitchen will have to be inspected every 22 time a new user comes into the kitchen to use it. 23 That, is stupid. 24 If it's a shared-use kitchen that's already 25 permitted been by Ag and Markets, why do we have to 1 have such a regulatory burden on those small 2 businesses that are trying to get started and 3 operate? 4 Those are entrepreneurs, those are small 5 businesses. 6 Those are the folks that we need more of. 7 So let's not create these crazy barriers to 8 their growth. 9 So those are just a few of the examples that 10 I see. 11 Sometimes I pull my hair out. 12 I'm lucky I'm not bald yet, because part of 13 my job is to advocate for agriculture. 14 And, as I said, I've been in this business 15 since 1988, and the greatest barrier that I see to 16 growth is from our state government and our federal 17 government. 18 We have young folks who are ready, willing, 19 and able to come back into agriculture. 20 They want to live in New York State. 21 They want to pay taxes here. 22 God bless them. 23 Let's take those barriers out of the way. 24 Thank you. 25 1 SENATOR RITCHIE: Jay, can you just explain, 2 you're talking about the certified kitchen. 3 Does each person that's going in there have 4 to get a permit each time? 5 Is that where the inspection comes from? 6 JAY MATTERSON: Okay, I'm going off the cuff 7 here a little bit, Senator. 8 To my understanding, it's not necessarily a 9 permit every time. 10 I believe they have to get a permit to go 11 into the kitchen now. 12 I could be wrong on that. 13 But, the one thing that was said, with 14 certainty, is that Ag and Markets will have to 15 inspect the kitchen every time. 16 That does not make sense, to inspect the 17 kitchen between each user. 18 Now, part of that information, I may not be 19 relaying it correctly. 20 I can look into it further. 21 It was, literally, about 15 minutes before 22 you sat down. 23 And I'm not sure if the person is going to 24 have the opportunity to speak here at the forum, so 25 I wanted to make sure I relayed that. 1 I'd be happy to get clarification on that, 2 but if any of that is the case, it does not make 3 sense. 4 SENATOR RITCHIE: Thank you. 5 SENATOR GALLIVAN: We would be interested if 6 you could follow up on that with us? 7 JAY MATTERSON: I certainly will. 8 SENATOR GALLIVAN: My question is kind of 9 along those lines. 10 You talk about the different layers and the 11 duplication of the various regulations. 12 So, we understand the duplications, like, 13 when you made mention, pesticides, for example; 14 CAFO, for example; between state and federal, and 15 then state. 16 Are there duplications in that permitting 17 process and regulations that go between state, 18 county, and local governments as well? 19 If you're aware of it. 20 JAY MATTERSON: Yeah, I can't say that I'm 21 aware of at least many duplications that go between 22 county and state. 23 I don't believe that's the case as much. 24 It's more of the state and federal 25 government. 1 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Okay. 2 All right, thank you. 3 JAY MATTERSON: Thank you. 4 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Phil Randanzzo -- 5 Randazzo, Coyote Moon Winery. 6 Thanks for being here, Phil. 7 PHIL RANDAZZO: Well, thank you for having 8 this meeting. 9 This is just wonderful, Senators; thank you 10 one and all. 11 And a special thanks to Jay Matterson, who's 12 probably delivered the shortest presentation I've 13 ever heard. 14 [Laughter.] 15 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Very impactful, though. 16 PHIL RANDAZZO: Mark, Eric, and Jay have 17 covered a lot of points. 18 I was thinking about the wine industry 19 specifically, preparing to come here the other day, 20 and I was reminded of a meeting I attended in 21 Richmond, Virginia, several years ago, and the 22 governor of Virginia spoke to a group of winery 23 owners, and I was in the audience. 24 And, he did a great presentation about all 25 the wonderful things they were doing in Virginia to 1 help wineries become established, and how he saw 2 that it was going to be one of the big growth 3 industries of Virginia. 4 And he vowed that he was going to make 5 Virginia the largest wine-producing state this side 6 of the Rocky Mountains, and went through a laundry 7 list of things the State was doing on behalf of 8 helping wineries get started; everything from 9 putting business-plan samples online, and, just, 10 really a friendly -- business-friendly gestures, and 11 tools, to help business survive and grow and start 12 up. 13 And I walked out of the meeting kind of 14 disappointed, thinking, well -- this was a few years 15 ago now -- coming back, saying, Oh, man! 16 Why doesn't New York State start to do some 17 of that? 18 So, here we are in the wine business for 19 several years now, and I've watched some bit of 20 growth. 21 The -- it's important to think about, 22 "What are we doing right?" and let's keep doing 23 that. 24 There's lots of things that we need to fix, 25 and we can always do better, but I'd like to reflect 1 just a little bit on some of the things that we're 2 doing right. 3 After attending Governor Cuomo's Wine, Beer, 4 and Spirits meeting that he had, I was really 5 impressed with the dedication that is being put 6 forth in the state with regards to our industry. 7 There's been an awful lot of change, and 8 there's been an awful lot of positive moves that I'm 9 sure could be applied to other agricultural 10 industries as well. 11 We fund research and marketing to the 12 New York State Wine and Grape Foundation that's 13 being put to great use. 14 The press that we're getting internationally 15 is just tremendous with New York State products -- 16 wine products. 17 That's something that we should continue to 18 do. 19 The SLA has been doing a surprising job 20 making life easier for us. 21 Where it took almost a year to get approved 22 to open a winery, that time frame has just shortened 23 up. 24 And I can't say enough about the help that 25 Patty has given us. 1 And Darrel Aubertine over at Ag and Markets, 2 he's just been a great help. 3 Pat Hooker, oh, my God! 4 I mean, he's been bending over backwards, 5 helping us on all kinds of issues. 6 And, Sam Filler, this one-stop shopping, 7 where you can call one person and he can work your 8 way through the bureaucracy? 9 Wow, that's huge! 10 And we're really seeing some of these 11 applications get escalated, and they're doing a 12 great job. 13 Chairman Rosen; it's like they've got some 14 kind of a customer-service program going, because 15 you really feel like a customer when you talk to the 16 SLA these days. 17 And they are really helping a lot; 18 Kerri O'Brien. 19 Tom Donahue; you call there and he's just, 20 you know, making it as simple as possible to 21 understand the laws and rules and regulations. 22 When I applied for my farm winery license, 23 I needed to hire a lawyer and a private consultant, 24 and it took us almost a year to get through all the 25 paperwork and put the package together. 1 And the last application we made for a store 2 in downtown Clayton happened within weeks, not 3 months. 4 So, you're all to be commended on support of 5 the wine industry, and getting through some of these 6 regulations. 7 Research, in the wine business, for certain, 8 is one of the most important things that a state can 9 help us do; either through our university system or 10 through the State itself. 11 The northern varieties of grapes that we grow 12 were developed by the University of Minnesota 13 through a very extensive research program. 14 Today, in our area up here, Jefferson County, 15 Lewis, those surrounding areas here, we now have 16 eight wineries, employing over a hundred people, 17 doing millions of dollars in sales, and research is 18 the reason that that has happened. 19 If it wasn't for the University of 20 Minnesota's research program developing cold-hearty 21 varieties that can be grown here, it's the only 22 reason that we're now able to take abandoned farms, 23 brushland, and hay fields, and turn them into 24 vineyards, is because of research that they've done. 25 And, so, anything we can do to keep our 1 research programs intact, or grow them, is going to 2 benefit. 3 It's going to benefit all of us. 4 Coyote Moon Vineyards, I mean, we're now, not 5 only growing grapes and making wine, but we're 6 probably the most award-winning winery in the entire 7 state of New York, including all the Finger Lakes 8 regions, because of the kind of grapes that we're 9 able to grow. 10 We're not only growing grapes on our farm, 11 but we have a network now of small farmers that 12 we've developed. 13 I treat it like a little franchise company. 14 And, so, I put small growers in business, and 15 then we help them with their soil analysis; we tell 16 them what to plant, how to plant; where to buy 17 things. 18 And many of these folks have six and 19 seven acres, two and three acres, and we're starting 20 a whole network of small farms, numbering probably 21 close to fifty in total in the North Country. 22 And it's all because of the research program 23 that was started by the University of Minnesota; 24 they came up with the grapes that would grow. 25 So, that's the message that I took home from 1 that program. 2 So, we're not only making great wine, we're 3 creating an entire industry. 4 And, because of these grapes, the 5 North Country is going to be seen as wine country 6 and doing a whole lot more business than we're 7 doing. 8 Cornell, for example, is now working on a 9 USDA grant. 10 It's $5 million that goes -- they headed up 11 the grant, but there's 12 universities involved over 12 9 states, I believe. 13 I'm a New York State advisor to that grant, 14 and work with Dr. Martinson [ph.], who's been doing 15 a great job administering that grant. 16 And our vineyard is a research site for that 17 grant. 18 So, we've got scientists in there every 19 Monday, doing samples, and, etc. 20 This is just helping us grow our grapes 21 better, and getting more and more production up. 22 And, so, anything the State can do to help in 23 that regard is certainly nice. 24 Now, are there areas of improvement? 25 Sure. 1 I think we could use a little more 2 regulation, quite frankly, and those regulations 3 ought to be put on public utilities. 4 If they're going to do business in this 5 state, they give need to give rural communities 6 three-phase power, and maybe it's done on some 7 formulation; a population, or something. 8 But, I mean, if they're going to do business, 9 and take our money under the monopoly that they 10 have, they have to be able to give us three-phase 11 power so that we can grow our companies and grow our 12 businesses, because it's a huge stumbling block for 13 us. 14 Internet service: 15 It's not too much to ask for Time Warner 16 Cable to run a cable line down East Line Road where 17 our farm is. 18 There's already 40 some odd residences. 19 We need Internet service bad. 20 What we have to do in our -- in our Internet, 21 a side of our business, is tremendous, just trying 22 to get those Internet sales. 23 And it's not like we're amateurs at it. 24 We have a significant portion of our sales 25 are done on the Internet now. 1 Social media: 2 There's a social-media rating site. 3 It's called "VinTank." It's a think-tank 4 that rates social-media sites. 5 Coyote Moon Vineyards was rated in the top 10 6 recently, in the world, for winery sites. 7 We're trying hard. 8 We've got towers we're putting up, and we're 9 doing satellite stuff. 10 I mean, it's crazy. 11 A nice high-speed Internet solution for 12 ag businesses is critical to our growth in today's 13 age. 14 And like some of my predecessors that talked, 15 are fortunate to have some 30-some-odd-aged kids 16 and -- in the business, and they know a whole lot 17 about -- more about it than I do, and how we're 18 making all this stuff work, but, we need Internet 19 service. 20 Speed up NYSERDA applications: 21 The grants are great, when you can get them. 22 I think we got one little itty-bitty tiny one 23 when we first started. 24 Something to do with light bulbs, or 25 something. 1 But, we did apply for a NYSERDA grant, and it 2 takes forever. 3 We don't need the grant to be approved 4 immediately, but it would sure be nice to know that 5 it's not going to be approved, so that we can do our 6 financial planning, and not have to wait months and 7 months for those grants to be approved. 8 So, if there's a way to speed that up, that 9 would certainly be helpful, and it would probably 10 allow more people to apply for some of those grants 11 as well. 12 Because, when I tell some of my buddies in 13 the ag business, they just say, "I don't bother 14 applying anymore. 15 It's just a waste of time." 16 And so that's a shame, because, here we are, 17 looking at some refrigeration systems, that they 18 were very excited about us doing, and actually came 19 to us and asked us if we would. 20 And, you know, that time has come and gone. 21 We had to go ahead and step up and buy that 22 stuff, or have a problem. 23 Ag and Markets has an interesting program, 24 where we have to state the price that we will pay 25 for grapes as a winery. 1 And, so, if a particular brand of grapes, 2 Marquette, for example, if we're going to pay 3 $1500 a ton, we have to make that price available to 4 everybody, and we have to post that price with 5 Ag and Markets. 6 I'm not so sure I know what happens to that 7 price posting, but I do know Cornell has a survey 8 they that they do, and it's just a few wineries, 9 unfortunately, and a few growers participate, where 10 people say what they pay for grapes, and what 11 they'll buy or sell grapes for, the pricing. 12 And that would be really helpful if 13 Ag and Markets information could be available, in an 14 anonymous basis, but the database is tremendous. 15 And it would be a great marketing tool for 16 grape growers, so they can look at this site on the 17 Internet and see that this Marquette grape, you 18 know, sells for between $800 and $1500 a ton, or 19 whatever the number is. 20 That's a small, little easy-to-fix issue. 21 It could be done anonymous so that it's not 22 giving away, and it would be a big help to us. 23 And last, but not least, what you could 24 really do for us in our industry, is we're facing a 25 barrier called the "Canadian-tariff" issue. 1 Canada charges almost as much as a bottle of 2 wine for a tariff on that wine going into Canada. 3 You know, it's darn near criminal what's 4 going on. 5 In 1989, the United States, Ronald Reagan, 6 Prime Minister Brian Mulroney, signed the trade 7 agreement -- Free-Trade Agreement, and wine was 8 supposed to be part of it. 9 Somewhere along the line, Ontario figured 10 they didn't have to deal with their own country, and 11 they could have their own taxation issues. 12 And they pretty much run company-owned 13 stores, Ontario owns the stores, and they don't want 14 a flood of American wine coming across the border, 15 and liquor, and spirits. 16 And we've been dealing with our federal 17 representatives, and I got to tell you, it's 18 really -- maybe it isn't disappointing, but the 19 results are absolutely disappointing. 20 And I can understand, you know, they're 21 dealing with wars, and they're dealing with fiscal 22 cliffs, and they're dealing with a lot of issues, 23 and maybe this tariff issue isn't exactly at the top 24 of anyone's list. 25 But, you know, we had Schumer, at one point, 1 said that he was going to use the 2 TransPacific Partnership talks that the Canadians 3 separately wanted to get involved, and he was going 4 to use the tariff as a leverage, for them to look at 5 that, before he'd let them in. 6 I mean, none of that happened. 7 I mean, there's article after article 8 about -- written at the "Berkeley Law Journal of 9 International Law" that cites Reagan and Mulroney's 10 agreement, going all the way back to 1989. 11 And this is just a travesty. 12 I have some solutions, and they really -- we 13 need State intervention. 14 Even if the State acts as a growling dog on 15 this, to threaten to charge state tax, which we 16 believe, and my -- some of my legal reviews shows 17 that it can be done, to threaten that, to get the 18 Canadians to talk to us. 19 Patty Ritchie has started conversations with 20 some of the folks in Ontario, and that's promising. 21 At the Governor's summit -- Wine, Beer, and 22 Spirits Summit, we were promised a working group to 23 discuss that tariff issue. 24 That's not happened yet. 25 I'm hopeful that I'll be getting a call from 1 the Governor's Office one of these days, saying, 2 Hey, we started a working group. 3 But, in the meantime, we're working on some 4 plans. 5 For example: 6 Rather than trying to make it a national 7 program, why don't we, as a state, say, Let's do a 8 pilot program, Ontario, with just you, and we'll 9 call it the "Thousand Islands International Wine 10 Trail." 11 Wow! 12 What a marketing idea. 13 And let's limit it to farm wineries, so that 14 the Ontario stores don't have a huge problem with 15 it. 16 And the farm wineries on the Ontario side and 17 on the New York side could form a wine trail, 18 advertise it internationally, and both sides of the 19 border would benefit financially. 20 It's a huge amount of money to us. 21 The Niagara Escarpment, folks, it's estimated 22 the Canadian tasting rooms do 35 percent of their 23 business with American purchases on that side of the 24 border. 25 I can't tell you what a 35 percent increase 1 in our business would be in our tasting room. 2 I mean, it would be tremendous. 3 We'd be hiring more people. 4 So, we need to work on this, and we need to 5 give it a spotlight. 6 We can create a tax-free zone if the 7 wine-trail thing doesn't fly. 8 Somewhere where there's a sticker program, 9 I mean, we can certainly figure out a way to sticker 10 these bottles of wine that are wine-trail-only 11 wines, or free -- tax-free-zone wines, and be sold 12 on both sides of the border. 13 Define distance from the border, if they're 14 concerned about it going to Pennsylvania or points 15 south. 16 I don't know. 17 And as a last resort, let's threaten the 18 Canadians with a level playing field: what's good 19 for them ought to be good for us. 20 And I guarantee you, there will be an outcry 21 from their wine industry that will be really loud 22 enough to get the Ontario representatives to the 23 table to talk about this. 24 But I think, there's no reason for us to sit 25 there and take this beating that we've been taking 1 since 1989, and just -- why are we doing that? 2 As a country, why are we doing that? 3 Why do we enter into stupid negotiations like 4 that? 5 We got to have to have smarter negotiators 6 than we're [unintelligible]. 7 But, as a businessman, I just absolutely 8 shake my head. 9 Why would you say, Okay, we won't charge you 10 a tariff if you don't charge us a tariff? 11 That makes sense. 12 But why would we let them, you know, create a 13 barrier to business for our guys on this side, 14 especially now that we've eight wineries, and a 15 couple more due to open, so close to the border in 16 the Thousand Islands region. 17 That would be a real economic boon, not only 18 to us, but to the state. 19 Like I said, we already have 100 employees 20 working. 21 I mean, that could easily double in the next 22 five years. 23 And the grapes are growing fine, and the 24 business is growing fine, and the State is doing a 25 great job helping us with our objectives. 1 Please keep doing that. 2 And, please, put pressure on whoever you can 3 to get this work group started so that we can come 4 up with a plan to overturn these barriers. 5 Thank you. 6 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you very much, Phil, 7 for your testimony. 8 You've given us some great things to 9 consider, both what the State is doing well, and 10 where we can improve. 11 The committee that I chair, the 12 Small Business, Commerce, and Economic Development 13 Committee, we provide oversight. 14 One of the state agencies that we oversee is 15 the State Liquor Authority, so I'm particularly 16 interested to hear your positive comments, and we're 17 starting to hear that. 18 That had been a particular problem not so 19 long ago. 20 And all of us, as legislators, have been 21 working on various constituent matters. 22 So, it's nice to hear that things are moving 23 in the right direction there. 24 Just one, I guess, technical question. 25 Someone else had brought it up before you, 1 and maybe I should know the answer to this question. 2 I just don't, so I'm just going to ask you: 3 When you were talking about power, you used 4 the phrase "three-phase power." 5 What does "three-phase power" mean? 6 PHIL RANDAZZO: It's a form of electricity, 7 that, basically -- I don't know all the 8 electrician's terms of it, but, it's three legs of 9 power that most big equipment and machinery run on. 10 And, so, in order to even buy a bodily line, 11 for example, or a crusher-destemmer or a press, all 12 those run on three-phase motors because of the 13 efficiency and the pureness of the power. 14 And if you don't have a three-phase power to 15 your building, you can't use those better pieces of 16 equipment, and so what you're forced to do is use 17 three-phase generators. 18 And there's these digital generators that you 19 can buy, and they're very expensive. 20 And, literally, what we have to do, is we 21 can't run the press and the crusher at the same time 22 because of the power output of the digital 23 three-phase generator. 24 We can't bottle at the same time as we can 25 crush and press. 1 All of those [unintelligible] switches, we 2 got to be shutting off and turning on. 3 If we had three-phase power to the building, 4 we can wire in all of these various motors and they 5 can run on them. 6 And the three-phase power that comes from the 7 power company, it's pure three-phase power; it's 8 clean, and it can run these very sensitive machines 9 that are -- you know, they're all driven with 10 computers and microchips. 11 SENATOR VALESKY: So are the utilities, by 12 and large, not willing to provide this? 13 JAY MATTERSON: That's correct. 14 They cite the cost of running the wire some 15 long distances, and it is expensive, but the same 16 token, they're selling us power. 17 And, it's just the thought of them being such 18 a monopoly, and, you know, there's not even a 19 discussion. 20 SENATOR VALESKY: Okay, thank you. 21 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Phil, I too am very 22 interested in your comments about the SLA, and it's 23 very good to hear. 24 But the one particular that I'm really 25 interested in, is when you mention the 1 one-stop-shopping concept. 2 Could you first tell me the name of the 3 individual? 4 You mentioned the -- that individual's name, 5 first of all. 6 Can you tell me that again? 7 PHIL RANDAZZO: Yeah, Filler. 8 SENATOR GALLIVAN: And then just tell me what 9 you know about that one-stop shopping. 10 PHIL RANDAZZO: Yeah, Sam Filler is the 11 directory -- here's his actual title: Director of 12 Industry and Strategic Business Development. 13 And Sam's job is to, when you call there 14 about a question about how to get a permit or get 15 something approved through the SLA, he cuts through 16 the red tape of all the different bureaucracies, 17 makes the phone calls. 18 And he's also responsible, if there's a 19 deadline missed or an application put in wrong, 20 because he's overseeing that for the individual 21 that's calling. 22 And it's -- the Governor put it, kind of a 23 one-stop shop, where you call one person who can 24 help direct you through all the various bureaucracy 25 levels of government. 1 And it's working sensational. 2 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Like a concierge. 3 PHIL RANDAZZO: It's there, and it's working. 4 And we talk to Sam. 5 I mean -- and he's doing a great job with it. 6 SENATOR GALLIVAN: That's come up a number of 7 times, and we have heard, anecdotally, about other 8 states having that for small business, in general. 9 PHIL RANDAZZO: You mean it wasn't the 10 Governor's original idea? 11 [Laughter.] 12 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Well, this is the only 13 place in New York State that I've heard of that; and 14 so, I mean, we're very interested in that concept. 15 The idea of making it easier for people to 16 start a business, and how to navigate the 17 bureaucracy, no one knows. 18 PHIL RANDAZZO: Yeah. 19 Yeah, I just talked to a fellow that's 20 starting a brewery, and he was just, also, accolades 21 all over about Sam and the wonderful job he did. 22 And Sam's got a, you know, staff, and they 23 work on this project. 24 And, Director of Industry and Strategic 25 Business Development. 1 And it's, Empire State Development is the 2 agency. 3 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Okay. 4 SENATOR VALESKY: Oh, it's at ESD, not the 5 SLA? 6 Okay. 7 PHIL RANDAZZO: It's not SLA. 8 Yeah, and it's crossing over SLA and all the 9 various permits. 10 And, you know -- and like I said, Rosen, and 11 their whole crew, has been doing great. 12 And, my God, Julie Suarez from the 13 Farm Bureau, awesome support in the wine industry, 14 as getting through some of the municipal issues. 15 There may not be state regulations, but, of 16 course, there's zoning issues and legal issues 17 between state and local ordinances that could be 18 streamlined, if it's possible. 19 And even our own Mike Mannigan, you know, 20 he's been doing a great job helping us out here, 21 although, he's out of the USDA. 22 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Got it. 23 PHIL RANDAZZO: And, we've had a lot of good 24 things happening in the last two years. 25 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Great, appreciate your 1 time and testimony. 2 Thank you. 3 PHIL RANDAZZO: You're very welcome. 4 Thank you. 5 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Ron Robbins from 6 North Harbor Dairy Farm and Old McDonald's Farm. 7 And I do want to say that you are very well 8 represented on the billboard on I-81, coming up. 9 We saw it. 10 RON ROBBINS: Glad you saw it. 11 SENATOR GALLIVAN: So, advertising money well 12 spent. 13 RON ROBBINS: Good afternoon. 14 Thanks for having me here today, and thanks 15 for offering the opportunity to hear from those 16 involved in agriculture here in Jefferson County. 17 I want to give just a brief introduction of 18 our farm business. 19 My wife, Nancy, and myself, along with our 20 three children, operate a family farm operation just 21 to the west of here near Sackets Harbor. 22 We're pretty diversified, probably a little 23 more diversified than most typical farm operations 24 here in the county, but that diversification has 25 allowed us the opportunity to be profitable, and to 1 involve more of our family members in the operation. 2 Our son Brian is the general manager of our 3 dairy-herd operation which consists of, currently, 4 950 cows, and we're currently in the midst of a 5 3-year expansion project that will take us to 6 1,400 cows. 7 Both our son Jeff, and daughter, Julia, work 8 off the farm, but are actively involved, with Julia 9 doing all the PR and marketing for the ag-tourism 10 business; and, Jeff, a schoolteacher, helping out on 11 weekends and whenever he can, and, especially 12 through the summer. 13 We, along with the dairy operation as 14 mentioned, we do have the ag-tourism, ag-education, 15 business that's become very popular. 16 This is our 27th year in that business. 17 And then we have a large crop operation as 18 well, that I manage. 19 It consists of about 7,000 acres, growing 20 corn, soy beans, wheat, and hay. 21 And that operation serves all the needs of 22 the dairy, as well as sells crops to the open 23 market, to feed meals, and we do some exporting of 24 soy beans to the Far East. 25 We -- it's a very exciting time to be in 1 agriculture. 2 You know, I've been involved in this business 3 since I was old enough to sit on my father's knee on 4 a tractor, and, you know, grew up with it, and saw 5 the trials and tribulations through the years. 6 But, what's gone on in the past five years is 7 monumental change in our industry. 8 As previous speakers have talked about, 9 technology coming into it. 10 The fact that we've seen growth in processing 11 plants, cheese manufacturing, yogurt manufacturing. 12 We have two operating ethanol plants here in 13 New York that are supplied with corn, pretty much 14 wholly from New York-grown corn. 15 We're exporting soy beans from numerous 16 locations around the state, and to the Port of 17 Newark, and then into containers, that ultimately 18 end up in fish-farming operations in small-island 19 countries and parts of China. 20 You know, to see that technology and see the 21 excitement. 22 I had a situation this spring, just a quick 23 example, where, you know, if your corn planters 24 stopped planting corn, you used to go get some 25 bailing wire and pliers, and, usually, you could get 1 it up and running. 2 Now I go get the laptop computer. 3 We log in, we talk to a technician somewhere 4 in a cubicle, and he gets us back up and running. 5 On that particular day, it was a software 6 glitch, and we had to actually have software 7 downloaded so we could go back and start planting 8 again. 9 That's the kind of technology we're seeing. 10 So with all that excitement and all the 11 enthusiasm, and the growth that we're seeing in our 12 business, having to deal with bureaucracy really 13 puts a damper on that. 14 And I might mention, too, that our farm 15 employs 35 year-round employees and 25 seasonal 16 employees; so, we are a large employer here in the 17 area. 18 And when I left here today, just to give you 19 a feel for what's going on on the farm: 20 We had a crew of about 12 individuals 21 harvesting corn silage; 22 Of course, our dairy crew was milking cows, 23 getting ready to start the afternoon milking; 24 Our second load of milk for the day was 25 leaving the farm to go to Great Lakes Cheese in 1 Adams; 2 A roof was being put on one of our older 3 heifer barns; 4 Manure system was being installed by a crew 5 from Western New York. 6 And, you know, that's real economic activity. 7 And I failed to mention, also, that there was 8 a school group there, visiting the tourism business 9 today. 10 So, I mean, those are things that are 11 providing real economic activity and growth to our 12 local area. 13 So I want to talk a minute about the 14 bureaucracy that puts a damper on our excitement 15 every day when we get up and get ready to go out the 16 door and go to work. 17 At the state level, we deal, of course, with 18 the Department of Ag and Markets, DEC, 19 New York State Department of Transportation, 20 New York State Department of Labor, New York State 21 Department of Health, and New York State Department 22 of Taxation and Finance. 23 Those agencies are part of our everyday life 24 every single day. 25 At the federal level, we have, of course, 1 USDA, Federal Motor Carrier Compliance, Federal DOT; 2 we have the EPA, we have the Federal Department of 3 Labor, we have the Internal Revenue Service, we have 4 federal health inspections; and last, and most 5 recent, we have OSHA now on that list, that we have 6 to think about when we go out the door every 7 morning. 8 The problem is, is that not only is that a 9 burden to us, but many of the New York regulations, 10 as some of the previous speakers have talked about, 11 are not necessarily compatible with federal 12 regulations. 13 Good example-- 14 And Senator Ritchie would know full well, 15 being a county clerk and dealing from motor-vehicle 16 standpoint. 17 -- last winter we had a federal DOT audit in 18 our office at the farm. 19 The inspector was very helpful, worked with 20 my bookkeeper and safety officer on the farm, to 21 make sure that all of our paperwork was in order for 22 the trucks that we have on our farm fleet; making 23 sure driver requirements were there, in place, and 24 that we understood those regulations. 25 We were so impressed with this guy, that a 1 multi-farm safety meeting that was held at the 2 Belleville Fire Hall in the end of March, we 3 actually invited this individual to come back and 4 speak to the group, so that our employees would 5 understand what regulations they needed to comply 6 with. 7 Little did we know, after the fact, that 8 everything that was explained to us is not 9 compatible with New York State law. 10 Driver regulations, safety regulations, 11 driver-licensing requirements, is not compatible 12 with federal DOT standards. 13 They are more stringent. 14 The farm-plated vehicle, that was talked 15 about earlier, license is so unworkable, so 16 complicated. 17 As our farms get bigger and we spread out, 18 I mean, we go 25 miles now, either direction, north 19 or south. 20 There may be days where a road is closed 21 because, on a Saturday, there's a 10K run, and we 22 have to take a different route. 23 What are we going to do if we take a 24 different route and it's not on that little blue 25 card? 1 Federal regulations are much less stringent 2 than that. 3 As long as you're within your area of 4 operation and you're doing things correctly, you're 5 fine. 6 Rules change in the middle of the game. 7 EPA and DEC here, our farm operation has been 8 involved in trying to meet CAFO requirements. 9 We've installed bunk-silo leachate systems, 10 that we find a year later, are now no longer 11 compatible with regulations, because somebody 12 changed them. 13 So that money and concrete, that doesn't make 14 our farm a lot of money to begin with; so, then, 15 I mean, it's more of a cost of doing business with, 16 really, no return to us specifically, other than 17 environmental compatibility. 18 But then we have to rip up, with a track hoe, 19 that concrete and reinstall it, because somebody 20 decided the rules needed to be different. 21 Staying on top of the rule changes becomes 22 more of a full-time job every day: environmental, 23 safety, DOT, labor. 24 I mean, we're even talking about hiring a 25 full-time person that would do nothing but 1 regulatory compliance for the business, because it's 2 that burdensome. 3 We just can't get all the work done in a day. 4 And then it was mentioned earlier -- 5 I want to just change gears a little bit and 6 talk about a couple things. 7 -- NYSERDA was mentioned. 8 We did a $2-million expansion project last 9 year at our dairy facility. 10 Applied to NYSERDA. 11 Hired a private consultant to help us through 12 that bureaucracy, which, it's very complicated. 13 But, anyway, we were looking for cost-sharing 14 for energy-efficiency: chillers, lights, fans; that 15 kind of thing. 16 We were approved for funding. 17 The project was fully completed. 18 And keep in mind, the invoicing requirements, 19 and other things, are very, very complicated. 20 It would make the average farmer just throw 21 it in the wastebasket and walk away; but, 22 fortunately, we had a consultant willing to work 23 with us. 24 We went online on November 18th last year. 25 The project was completed, and cows started 1 being milked in the new facility. 2 We have yet to receive our cost-share 3 payment. 4 We're coming up on a full year. 5 Now, I was promised last week that we're in 6 the hopper and that money should be coming to us. 7 But keep in mind, you know, we borrowed that 8 money, paid the invoices, paid the suppliers, so 9 that cost-share payment continues to get smaller and 10 smaller every day that goes by with the interest 11 that we've paid on that money. 12 Whether we borrowed the money or pulled it 13 out of our pocket, that is a cost to us. 14 And, you know, why should it take that long 15 if we did everything to meet the requirements? 16 What good are those programs if they can't be 17 workable to the folks that they're meant to serve? 18 Lastly, I want to talk a little bit: 19 I'm a board member for the New York Farm 20 Viability Institute, and that's where the 21 frustration with bureaucracy reaches its peak. 22 Our mission at the institute is to utilize 23 funding sources, mainly State dollars, but we also 24 rely on other funding sources -- grower investment 25 through check-off monies, private funding, federal 1 dollars through Cornell -- to put forth research and 2 education programs, that are not only going to 3 improve the profitability for farmers here in 4 New York State, and all farmers, but, also, 5 communities and citizens that live within those 6 farming regions. 7 You guys know very well the heavy lifting 8 that has been done to keep that funding stream 9 coming from the state level. 10 And we very much appreciate that. 11 This Governor has touted his ability to have 12 on-time budgets every year in his administration, 13 but that's where the problem starts. 14 You do the heavy lifting, we get a budget 15 passed, and then the bureaucracy kicks in. 16 The Comptroller's Office has to first review 17 those allocations. 18 Then it goes to the Department of Budget. 19 The Department of Budget then goes back to 20 Ag and Markets and begins to work on a contract. 21 And I'm being told now, we have this new 22 one-size-fits-all contract format for 23 New York State. 24 The problem is, it doesn't fit anything. 25 It's like having a shirt that's 1 one-size-fits-all, but it doesn't fit anybody, 2 because it doesn't have a hole for their head and it 3 doesn't have sleeves for their arms. 4 That's what's happening here. 5 So, here we go: 6 We're in contract negotiations. 7 We are now, budget was passed, what, March, 8 April, time frame. 9 We've now gone through a whole growing 10 season. 11 We still don't have a contract for our 12 allocation for farm viability, so we've missed a 13 whole growing season. 14 We'll approve some projects here shortly, 15 with the caveat that, hopefully, our contract will 16 be approved, which we have no reason to believe that 17 it won't be, but, when, we have no idea. 18 So then what happens? 19 Most of those projects are geared towards the 20 growing season. 21 So now we're into -- coming into the late 22 fall and winter, and, the end of the year, we now 23 hit the re-appropriation time. 24 So any funds that are not used, the 25 Department of Budget comes back to us and says, 1 "Well, you didn't spend the money. 2 We have to kick you over to 3 re-appropriations." 4 And then we fight the battle, hoping that the 5 Governor will then reappropriate previous-year's 6 spending, without taking a piece of the action along 7 the way to cover some other costs. 8 So we -- in fact, we had a conference call -- 9 a board conference call yesterday, and the comments 10 were made was: 11 We have totally gotten away, as a board, from 12 our mission of identifying needs of the industry, 13 and, what we can best do to provide research and 14 education dollars to meet those needs, to dealing 15 with a process. 16 That's all we do as a board now, is deal with 17 a process. 18 And it's-- as a producer, volunteering my 19 time to that cause, the frustration level goes 20 sky-high. 21 I'm a guy that wants to get things done, and 22 it's not happening. 23 And, you know, if we're -- all those exciting 24 things that I talked about earlier -- milk 25 processing, expansion in dairies, land coming back 1 into production, wineries being built -- that 2 doesn't happen just because it happens. 3 It happens because, as the previous speaker 4 mentioned, research and education happens. 5 That fosters growth within our industry. 6 If we're going to be serious about that, we 7 got to somehow break down this bureaucracy, and 8 allow us at the institute to get back to doing what 9 our mission is; and that's providing a service to 10 the industry, to identify the greatest needs out 11 there, in all commodity sectors, for research and 12 education programs. 13 So, lastly, I just want to close by, you 14 know, asking the question: 15 Are the citizens of New York better off with, 16 you know, our regulations not being compatible with 17 federal standards, with dollars being made available 18 through NYSERDA and through the Farm Viability 19 Institute, but access to those dollars being slow 20 and cumbersome and burdensome? 21 You know, I would bet not. 22 I certainly appreciate the opportunity to 23 speak to you today, and certainly applaud all of 24 your efforts. 25 Senator Ritchie, you know, we've worked very 1 well together here in the county, and you've been a 2 real champion. 3 And, Senator Valesky, we just went through, 4 with our dairy expansion last year, the 5 three-phase-power issue with National Grid. 6 Private consultant again. 7 Several months of talking to a person in 8 cubicle in Massachusetts, that had no idea of what 9 we were trying to do, and how we were going to do 10 it. 11 We had to get our own right-of-ways for that 12 line to be changed; so, new pole settings and 13 everything. 14 We had to go out and actually knock on doors, 15 to get those right-of-ways, because National Grid 16 would not do it for us. 17 Plus, we had to pay for the line. 18 And, we actually ran our new operation on a 19 diesel generator for about five weeks while we were 20 waiting to get that line in. 21 And if it hadn't had been for Ron Rausch at 22 the Department of Ag and Markets, and the Senator, 23 and some other folks, twisting some arms, we may 24 have -- we might very well have run all winter on 25 that generator. 1 But, fortunately, we were able to grease the 2 skids, and we actually-- Ron Rausch was effective in 3 going to the Governor's Office and getting him to 4 put an inquiry into the Public Service Commission, 5 which then started getting some things going. 6 So, thank you very much. 7 Any questions? 8 SENATOR MARCHIONE: I have one. 9 You seem to have done a lot of building 10 projects on your farm. 11 I wondered, could any reform of the 12 New York State Building Code be helpful to you? 13 RON ROBBINS: We don't necessarily get into a 14 lot of trouble there. 15 Our county codes and New York State Building 16 Codes are pretty easy on the eyes for agricultural 17 buildings. 18 Even our ag-tourism business, our county-code 19 people have been very helpful in making that happen. 20 So, we're pretty fortunate. 21 SENATOR MARCHIONE: Okay. 22 Just a statement: 23 As a previous county clerk, like 24 Senator Ritchie, I feel your pain when you're 25 telling me about waiting. 1 We used to participate, even as county 2 government, in a grant program, relative to our 3 records. 4 And the grants should have been awarded in 5 July. 6 Grants are never awarded, any longer, until 7 January. 8 You have to complete them in the same 9 time frame, and if you don't, you lose the money. 10 RON ROBBINS: Yeah. 11 SENATOR MARCHIONE: And there's nothing as 12 frustrating as taking the time and effort, because 13 it's a great deal of effort to apply, to wait; to go 14 through the process, and then just to have your 15 hands tied after you've done everything. 16 And on top of that, you're waiting for money 17 back for your pocket. 18 So, I certainly feel that pain, and that's 19 something I hope we can do something about. 20 RON ROBBINS: Thank you. 21 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Ron, the contract, the 22 Farm Viability Institute, I'm assuming it's the same 23 from year to year, so they go through the 24 bureaucracy and administration of it. 25 I mean, is there any reason, other than the 1 state bureaucracy, why it just couldn't be 2 automatically renewed if there was no change? 3 RON ROBBINS: That was the conversation we 4 had yesterday, is, Why do we continue to go through 5 this, year in and year out, when nothing changes? 6 We operate under the same rules this year as 7 we did last year, and the year before that. 8 The process is the same; the application for 9 the grants for research and education projects is 10 the same; how we go through that, in picking those 11 projects, is the same. 12 Nothing changes; yet here we are, still not 13 sure when we're going to get a contract. 14 SENATOR GALLIVAN: But you're not -- now, if 15 I understood you right, you're not identifying the 16 particular projects in the application? 17 RON ROBBINS: No. 18 SENATOR GALLIVAN: That's done after you get 19 the money? 20 RON ROBBINS: Yes. 21 And then -- 22 SENATOR GALLIVAN: So this is just a contract 23 for the money. 24 RON ROBBINS: Yes. 25 SENATOR GALLIVAN: And your agreement to stay 1 within the parameters of the rules, I'm assuming? 2 RON ROBBINS: Correct. 3 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Okay. 4 Thank you. 5 SENATOR RITCHIE: Ron, I just have one 6 question. 7 I remember we had an issue not too long ago, 8 with a sign for your agritourism business. 9 I can't remember specifically what the 10 problem was, but, is there anything there that's an 11 impediment? 12 RON ROBBINS: Yes, and, you know, that was an 13 issue that I -- you know, that's a -- another 14 DOT issue that's very frustrating. 15 In fact, we have a neighbor who has a winery, 16 and he's been met with the same frustration. 17 You know, we're off the main highway. 18 Route 3 -- coming from Watertown to Sackets, 19 New York State Route 3, is a scenic byway. 20 And signage along that, I can understand 21 signage having to meet certain standards, and, 22 certainly, meet DOT requirements for setbacks and 23 other things, but, they flat-out will, one, unless 24 you have a grandfathered location, not let you 25 construct a sign. 1 They make you put the little "blue sign," we 2 call them, that costs a lot of money, and hardly 3 anybody sees. 4 And, you know, these are businesses that are 5 not necessarily on the main highway, that need to 6 attract people off the main highway. 7 We just bought some property this past year. 8 And, coming out of Watertown, there's a barn 9 that's in somewhat disrepair. 10 So, we're in the process, we're going to side 11 that barn and put a roof on it. 12 We wanted to hang a billboard on the side of 13 that barn, identifying our business as being, you 14 know, "straight ahead, turn left." 15 And we were told by DOT that we could not put 16 a banner on that barn. 17 Well, I said to my wife: 18 You know, we own the barn. 19 We can write anything we want, I would think, 20 on that barn, but, they're saying that we can't? 21 And -- so, correct. 22 I mean, it's an issue. 23 And signage for agricultural businesses along 24 main highways and scenic byways does need to be 25 addressed. 1 And I'm sure some of the speakers, especially 2 the winery operators, would agree. 3 SENATOR RITCHIE: Thank you. 4 RON ROBBINS: Good point, thank you. 5 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thanks, Ron. 6 Morris Surbello. 7 Hi, Morris, how are you today? 8 Ready when you are. 9 MORRIS SURBELLO: First of all, thank you 10 for -- all the Senators, for taking the time out to 11 have this. 12 This is an important function, as you have 13 heard. 14 I can't see where there's anything wrong, 15 after all of my previous speakers, so we're going to 16 go from apples and wine and dairy, to onions. 17 My sons and I raise about 300 acres of onions 18 and about 300 acres of soy beans here in 19 Oswego County, and, it's a family operation. 20 I have twin sons. 21 They do an excellent job so I can do a lot of 22 other things. 23 And, we do that. 24 We have obstacles, of course, as my cohorts 25 have mentioned in the last five speakers, of course, 1 is the numerous regulations with vehicles. 2 We harvest with numerous vehicles, and try to 3 do the same thing with the farm plates, and things 4 of this nature. 5 As they have said, there is problems. 6 Because things have changed so dramatically 7 with the technology we have today, that we have to 8 travel farther and go farther distance, getting land 9 farther away from our initial operations. 10 So, it leads into a lot of issues. 11 One of the issues, I'm sure, as my previous 12 speakers have said, about the Farm Omnibus Bill, 13 time-and-a-half is an issue, because, today, we have 14 beautiful sunshine; two days from now, we've got 15 rain. 16 In our particular business, when you're 17 harvesting this time of year, an onion has to be 18 dry. 19 No matter how you do it or how you go about 20 it, it's got to be dry on the ground before we can 21 pick it up. 22 In the mornings, we cannot harvest because 23 it's damp, for example, if you have dew. 24 Maybe 12:00 we start in. 25 So, from 12 to 7, you go like crazy and 1 harvest, but that's all. 2 So you have to, numerous days. 3 Sometimes you get a day that's real hot. 4 Sunday, whatever day it is, you're going to 5 work. 6 So, it's a problem, I don't understand it. 7 My workers, for example, are a combination of 8 Guatemalans, Mexicans, and even, recently, Burmese, 9 and nobody complains about hours, nobody complains 10 about times or where. 11 So, I don't understand why the regulations 12 would want to change. 13 If Downstate New York doesn't like that, 14 well, I'm sorry, that's the way the farming business 15 is up here: we have to go by the weather and 16 understand what we're doing. 17 We're not in a nice structure. 18 In the winter months, I'm in a structure 19 where we run our onions. 20 You can regulate things a little more there, 21 but you can't do that in the summertime when you're 22 growing this crop. 23 So, I just wanted to touch down on that. 24 Some of the issues that I personally have, 25 for example, is, how do you hand down these 1 operations through the New York State code system to 2 your children? 3 I've been in the process of trying to work on 4 that. 5 I've hired attorneys. 6 You look at the deductions, for example, that 7 the State allows us. 8 It could possibly make a difference, where we 9 would have to sell property, or they would have to 10 sell property, to pay the tax bill. 11 These are issues that I think should be 12 addressed because, as we all know in this business, 13 we build up -- we build up buildings, we build up 14 these things. 15 They're not something you can liquidate. 16 You got to have them to operate. 17 So, therefore, we should find means of trying 18 to make this issue less comprehensive in the 19 regulations that we have. 20 Some of the issues I had: 21 I've worked on I-4, which is a -- out of 22 Rutgers, where we used to get the appeal -- I mean, 23 used to make the presentation for pesticides and 24 herbicides, and all those, throughout the nation. 25 And when it came to New York State, it 1 stopped, and we had to go through the whole process, 2 altogether, in New York State again. 3 Digging holes in the soils and doing other 4 tests which were done before that in other states, 5 or whatever -- wherever it was designed to have that 6 particular herbicide or insecticide processed. 7 They have to -- it has to be on the label for 8 a farmer to use it. 9 So, in some cases, we're a minority crop. 10 And minority crop probably takes in 11 80 percent of everything you eat, because unless 12 it's a grain, it's not a minority crop. 13 But, onions, lettuce, apples, whatever, you 14 name it, are minority crops. 15 For them to get a labeling on their products 16 they can use in the state of New York, it is a 17 process. 18 It can go through the whole country and be 19 cleared, because, when I was on Rutgers panel, it 20 did do that. 21 And we come to New York State, it was another 22 process, and it hasn't changed much. 23 So that is something that we should be 24 concerned about. 25 I think, myself, we have here in the state of 1 New York a tremendous farm situation for our 2 consumers. 3 "Fresh"; you name the vegetables, you name 4 the fruits, you name everything, we have it in this 5 state. 6 Some states don't have even half of what 7 we've got. 8 And we've got water; and water's something 9 that we have in this state, which is gonna help in 10 the future, I'm sure, as it has helped in the past. 11 My cohorts out west tell me stories, where 12 they got to buy their water and they can't compete 13 because it's being outbid. 14 So, they can't even buy water out there 15 because they're outbid. 16 That whole food-shifting is taking place. 17 Is it good? 18 I hope it's good, in a sense, for the farmers 19 maybe in this area; but at the same time, it's not 20 good for our nation, which will be bringing product 21 from other countries. 22 So I'm concerned about that. 23 There's other issues, of course, and 24 I could -- all my cohorts that spoke before me, more 25 or less, touched on most of them, but, I don't see 1 any reason for me to take up a lot of your time. 2 I appreciate every bit of it. 3 There's drainage reasons, and 4 Senator Ritchie's helped a great deal. 5 And we've been through that issue, with -- 6 where we grow onions is a wetland, so to speak, at 7 one time, and we've made it into a muck land. 8 And we're at the bottom of the drainage 9 system, and, of course, everything is regulated by 10 DEC. 11 So when you want to clean a ditch, because 12 you got to have drainage in a farm production to 13 make any kind of crop, it's a problem. 14 Sometimes you have great cooperation, and 15 sometimes you don't, but the DEC is constantly 16 monitoring it, "constantly regulating the streams," 17 as we call them, because you are on the bottom end 18 of the stream, so to speak. 19 And all you want to do, you'll do it all at 20 your own cost, but you can't do it because, for 21 whatever reasons. 22 So there's problems with that, because 23 undrained farmland gets to be wetland in a very 24 short time, then it's completely impossible. 25 So other than that, I haven't got any great 1 demands. 2 I think the labor situation is very critical. 3 I've never had so many different changes of 4 labor in my experience as I had this year, where the 5 government's not responsive for immigration as they 6 should be. 7 It's something to be done. 8 In my opinion, they should be -- something 9 should be done in a card process, where they would 10 be able to come into this country and be regulated, 11 and you know where they are. 12 And, then, if they don't have a job, of 13 course, they're found and put to work, or, there is 14 work to be done. 15 There's so many people here that want to 16 work, but some of our people in this country do not 17 want to work. 18 When I have to go out, as a grower, and get 19 Burmese from Syracuse, and a person -- people from 20 Guatemala and Mexico, and the welfare roles are full 21 of people taking money, frustrates me beyond means. 22 And as the Senator knows, I'm a 23 county legislator, and I sit on the committees, and 24 I get upset about things like that. 25 As far as incentives for farming, I think 1 it's a great opportunity for anybody in our state. 2 There's a lot here to be offered. 3 And, I praise all the people, whether you're 4 dairy, vegetable, or fruit, to put up with the 5 regulations we have to in this state, and do what 6 they're doing. 7 Thank you. 8 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you, Morris. 9 SENATOR MARCHIONE: I'm good. 10 Thank you. 11 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thanks, Morris. 12 MORRIS SURBELLO: I appreciate it very much. 13 Thank you. 14 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Appreciate your time. 15 Pronounce your last name for us. 16 KATHRYN CANZONIER: Canzonier. 17 My husband says, think of it like "cans of 18 beer." 19 [Laughter.] 20 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Oh, that makes it easy. 21 KATHRYN CANZONIER: He can take the blame for 22 it. 23 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Farm Credit East. 24 KATHRYN CANZONIER: Thank you. 25 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Appreciate you being here. 1 Thank you. 2 KATHRYN CANZONIER: Good afternoon. 3 I'm Kathryn Canzonier. 4 I'm vice president of Farm Credit East. 5 That's my day job. 6 My husband operates North Ranch Farms, which 7 is a small vegetable farm here in Jefferson County. 8 We have a couple of retail locations and 9 wholesale, mostly fresh sweet corn this time of 10 year. 11 Today's our first day of our you-pick 12 pumpkins, and we have a good looking crop, if you 13 care to stop down in Jefferson County. 14 I grew up here in Jefferson County on my 15 family's former dairy farm. 16 And my dad and brother, together, still 17 operate in a grain farm. 18 They're formed in an LLC, transferring from 19 one member of the family, the senior generation to 20 the junior generation, so, just like some of the 21 topics that you've heard earlier. 22 I've been kind of reorganizing my notes 23 because a lot of it's redundant. 24 A lot of the issues that you've heard from 25 the former speakers, I hear every day, working with 1 members that we serve out of our branch office, so 2 I won't repeat those, and, I've kind of got it here, 3 just some real general comments, so I hope that's 4 helpful. 5 Farm Credit East is the largest lender to 6 New York agriculture. 7 We have $2.7 billion in loans to about 8 8,500 farms, forest-product businesses, agricultural 9 processing, and marketing businesses in 10 New York State. 11 We provide extensive financial services, 12 focused on supporting and growing agriculture. 13 As a finance cooperative, we're owned and 14 operated by the very same farmers that we serve, so, 15 we're well positioned to meet the future credit 16 needs of agriculture. 17 We have made a commitment to serving all 18 types of agriculture: traditional, nontraditional, 19 operations, and farms of all size. 20 So, again, that's partly why I've kept my 21 comments fairly general. 22 To start off with a few positives that I see, 23 we actively work with farms to utilize the 24 Empire State Link Deposit Program for farm 25 expansions, and we administer the Farm Worker 1 Housing Loan Program for New York State. 2 These programs have been very successful in 3 supporting New York State agriculture, and should be 4 continued. 5 I was just notified yesterday by the 6 Empire State Development that the project cap for 7 the Link Deposit program was recently increased from 8 $1 million to $2 million. 9 You've heard of the scale of some of the 10 sizes of the expansion projects here. 11 It's very easy to hit that $1 million cap. 12 We have a local dairy farm that was just 13 completing a project that was over $1.5 million. 14 So, Cynthia is helping me work through the 15 process of taking that Link Deposit application from 16 the former cap of 1 million, to $1.5 million, and 17 that's just a great opportunity for that borrower, 18 and a really great value to them. 19 So I really see that as a positive. 20 Farm Credit East is one of the largest users 21 of the Link Deposit program, and we only use it in 22 agriculture, so that gives you an idea of our 23 utilization of that. 24 We also wanted to express our appreciation to 25 the Senate's passage of the legislation to cap 1 increases in agricultural-value assessment to 2 2 percent. 3 I believe it's still pending the Governor's 4 approval. 5 On average, New York farmers pay 6 significantly higher property taxes than farmers in 7 most other states. 8 Our analysis indicates, average property 9 taxes per acre paid in New York State farmers is a 10 little over $26 per acre, compared to a little under 11 $7 per acre on the U.S. average. 12 So that gives you an idea of the comparison. 13 When viewed as a percentage of net farm 14 income, New York farmers pay 15 percent of their net 15 income for property taxes, compared to, 10 percent 16 on U.S. average; 8 percent in Michigan; 7 percent in 17 Ohio. 18 As we look at -- well, we're also extremely 19 optimistic about New York agriculture. 20 There is increased interest in local foods: 21 "Know Your Farmer." 22 The yogurt dairy expansion that's been 23 mentioned provides new market opportunities. 24 We've completed an economic analysis that 25 indicates New York agriculture generates 1 $38.4 billion in economic activity in the state, and 2 is responsible for 196,000 jobs. 3 As we look to New York State agriculture, the 4 factors that are of utmost concern include the 5 following: 6 Significantly increasing costs of production, 7 coupled with national and global market pressures, 8 are squeezing margins for many dairy farms. 9 Actually, all farms. 10 So you're hearing nationally about unheard of 11 gross farm income, but that's only part of the 12 story. 13 You've really got to focus on net farm 14 earnings, and, the profit margin is getting 15 squeezed. 16 The public-sector-driven costs contribute to 17 the increased costs of production. 18 And you've heard mention of what a lot of 19 those are. 20 Number two is farm labor. 21 The uncertainty related to farm labor, and to 22 some degree farm-labor costs, are limiting 23 agricultural expansion in New York. 24 This labor uncertainty is even greater when 25 New York farmers consider the ongoing debate in the 1 New York Legislature regarding overtime pay and 2 collective bargaining for farm workers. 3 And, number three, uncertainty in the 4 regulatory climate, changes relating to labor, 5 health care, environmental, and food-safety 6 regulations create constant challenges for farm 7 businesses. 8 From a state standpoint, the DEC action on 9 increasing the CAFO threshold from 200 to 300 cows 10 was a positive sign, not just for dairy, but to all 11 of New York State agriculture, as a positive can-do 12 gesture. 13 The outcome of the current lawsuit against 14 that change is, of course, a concern to many 15 farmers. 16 Working with producers as I do, when we're 17 looking at future plans for the business, we hear so 18 many times that uncertainty is one of the greatest 19 risks in their business plans when they're looking 20 at expansion. 21 When, for example, the dairy manufacturers 22 are asking them to produce more milk, they say: 23 I'm taking on all the risk. 24 I don't know these what changes may or may 25 not be coming in the next one year, two years, three 1 years. 2 I just don't have a way to know for sure what 3 some of that will be. 4 And a lot of the producers we work with, 5 they're risk-takers. 6 They're in this industry because they're 7 willing to take on a lot of those risks. 8 But, this uncertainty is just something 9 that's outside of control of the things that they 10 are comfortable with the risks that they deal with 11 every day in their business. 12 We conducted a survey recently that we call 13 the "Pulse of Agriculture." 14 The results for New York State indicate that 15 agriculture producers in New York State ranked 16 business challenges, and they ranked the following 17 eight as being their major business challenges: 18 Number 1: Volatility of prices, costs, and 19 operating margin; 20 Number 2: Changing or shrinking margins for 21 my product; 22 Number 3: Availability of labor; 23 Number 4: Federal government regulation; 24 Number 5: Environmental compliance; 25 Number 6: State and local government 1 regulations; 2 Number 7: Availability of other labor; 3 And, Number 8: Changing consumer patterns. 4 For New York farms to be successful and grow, 5 we need to ensure New York's regulatory and tax 6 burdens on farm businesses are not greater than 7 those that farmers have in competing states. 8 Furthermore, we urge support for 9 New York State economic-development programs that 10 encourage agricultural and dairy-processing firms to 11 locate in New York. 12 This creates jobs, allows expanded markets 13 for New York farmers, and ensures consumers with 14 products produced locally. 15 Avoid passage of any legislative proposals 16 that put New York farmers at a competitive 17 disadvantage with farmers in other states, and work 18 to ensure that public-sector-related costs for 19 New York farmers are not higher than other states. 20 Changes relating to farm labor, including the 21 processed requirement for overtime pay, will have a 22 major negative impact on net farm income, 23 reinvestment, and competitiveness. 24 And, support and enhance applied research 25 efforts, including those of the New York Farm 1 Viability Institute, to ensure future industry 2 competitiveness. 3 And, once again, I think this is fairly 4 consistent with the comments you've heard from the 5 producers. 6 So I thank you for the opportunity to 7 comment, and I'll gladly answer any questions. 8 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you. 9 KATHRYN CANZONIER: Thank you. 10 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Tonya Van Slyke, who 11 happens to be from Senator Gallivan's district, in 12 Wyoming County, and serves as the executive director 13 of the Northeast Dairy Association. 14 Thanks for making the trip. 15 TONYA VAN SLYKE: I love coming to the 16 North Country. 17 So I'm going to sift through my notes a 18 minute, too, because I have a lot of the same 19 comments that the speakers before me have shared. 20 But, just a little bit of background on who 21 I am. 22 I come from a family dairy farm that's been 23 in business for over 200 years. 24 And, I'm married to a dairy farmer who's 25 seventh generation, so our children are 1 eighth generation. 2 We have a 1200 cow dairy farm in 3 Wyoming County. 4 And I'm also the executive director of the 5 Northeast Dairy Producers Association, so 6 I represent 115 farm families, some of which are 7 here with me today in the room. 8 So, I want to start out by just talking about 9 farmers, in general, for a minute. 10 So, we have a lot of resources that we 11 utilize to be able to make our businesses 12 successful. 13 One is our labor; so, our farm labor is very 14 much a part of our farm team. 15 They are the key to our success as farm 16 owners. 17 And also, the land. 18 Our land is what we have, that we pass on to 19 the next generation, to be able to maintain our farm 20 businesses, whether you're a dairy farm or a fruit 21 and vegetable farm. 22 So it's in our best interests to take care of 23 our land to the best of our ability. 24 And, so, when we talk a lot about government 25 regulations, you know, there are folks that assume 1 that we don't want to take care of our labor, we 2 don't want to take care of our land, and -- as well 3 as our animals. 4 So if you're a dairy farmer, obviously, 5 healthy cows make more milk, which leads to more 6 profitability. 7 So, again, it's in our best interests to do 8 our best to take care of our animals to the best of 9 our ability, and to train our employees to do that 10 as well. 11 So there's some things that I want to 12 address, one of which hasn't really been addressed 13 today, and that is the "FOIL" issue; the Freedom of 14 Information Law. 15 I know that Senator Gallivan has introduced 16 Senate Bill 5929, which would enact -- which is an 17 act to amend the Ag and -- Agriculture and Markets 18 Law in relation to limiting disclosure of certain 19 information. 20 So I want to talk about the NYSCHAP program 21 for a minute, because our association has spent a 22 tremendous amount of resources this year fighting an 23 anti-agriculture group, as well as the lawsuit -- 24 supporting the Department of Agriculture and Markets 25 in a lawsuit against that same organization; folks 1 that are anti-agriculture at least feel that we're 2 not taking care of our animals. 3 So the NYSCHAP program is a voluntary 4 program, and dairy farmers and other farmers 5 participate in order to improve animal health, and 6 also to work toward food safety and public health. 7 So we test our animals, to be able make sure 8 that we're getting ahead of any issues we might 9 have. 10 We share a lot of data with the State of 11 New York, with the Department of Agriculture and 12 Markets; and, again, this is all voluntary. 13 We do this on a voluntary basis. 14 And that relationship was compromised 15 a year and a half ago when a lawsuit occurred. 16 And, again, it's something that we spent a 17 tremendous amount of time on. 18 And I have to tell you that, farmers that 19 signed up for the NYSCHAP program, signed up under 20 the assumption that they were volunteering their 21 information and that it was confidential, and some 22 of that information has since been released to other 23 organizations. 24 And so, this FOIL issue is huge, because it's 25 twofold. 1 One, if you don't allow the protection of 2 farm data, you're not going to have farms 3 participate. 4 And I'll talk about my farm as an example. 5 We went as far as we could in the NYSCHAP 6 program. 7 We were one of the few farms in the state 8 that was animal-welfare certified. 9 So, we invested a tremendous amount of 10 resources, in terms of employee training, consulting 11 and financial investment, to really design good 12 protocols, train our employees, and to be able to 13 excel at that level of animal-welfare certification. 14 My husband was proud enough, that he had a 15 banner created, so when we go to our county fair 16 with our farm float, with our children, and our 17 employees, that we display that banner. 18 We no longer participate in that program, as 19 do many other farms that I work with, have put their 20 participation on hold. 21 This bill is very important to the farming 22 community. 23 It's also important to the constituents of 24 New York State, because we want our farms to be 25 participating in the voluntary program. 1 We want them to be giving the State of 2 New York our information, not only for animal health 3 and food safety, but also for emergency 4 preparedness. 5 So if we were to have some kind of an 6 emergency in the state, you have our information. 7 You know how many employees we have; where we 8 are, our GPS coordinates. 9 You have all that information. 10 If you don't protect us, if you don't protect 11 our farm data, you will have fewer and fewer farms 12 participate, and that's a negative impact overall. 13 So I would encourage you to talk with your 14 colleagues about the importance of this bill. 15 It's extremely important to both farms and to 16 the constituents of New York. 17 So that's the first thing. 18 The second thing I want to talk about is 19 another area that hasn't been discussed today -- 20 And, I brought some information, and, Todd, 21 I can leave this with you so that you can have 22 direct information on the website. 23 -- but we've heard a lot about DEC. 24 One of the requirements that some of the 25 larger farms have is annual reporting of water 1 withdrawals for ag facilities. 2 And, so, I'm going to read this directly so 3 that I'm not misinterpreting. 4 "All agriculture facilities with the capacity 5 to withdraw groundwater or surface water equal to or 6 in excess of the average of 100,000 gallons per day 7 in a 30-day consecutive period must file an annual 8 report with the New York State Department of 9 Environmental Conversation on an annual basis." 10 So, if we're not selling water; if we're 11 using water on our farms, on our own property, why 12 do we have to report that? 13 And I'll explain the concern a little bit 14 further. 15 So, farms that do this, and have done this, 16 one of the things that they have to do, is submit to 17 DEC their farmstead map. 18 On that is well locations. 19 Not only well locations on our farm, but if 20 you rent land from somebody else, from a neighbor, 21 you also have to identify their well locations. 22 Let's go back to FOIL requests. 23 If this information were to fall into the 24 wrong hands, let's say, folks that are anti-animal 25 agriculture, and they want a way to be able to put a 1 farm business out of business, what a better way 2 than to contaminate their water supply. 3 So, many of the farms in the state that have 4 to do this have a real concern with submitting these 5 maps. 6 I mean, we already had our CAFO information 7 released by EPA this year to folks that -- that FOIL 8 bad information, and so we have some real concerns 9 in terms of the water-withdrawal requirements and 10 submitting farmstead maps, along with well 11 locations, to DEC. 12 We have addressed this with them, and I know 13 that they're looking into it, but it's something 14 that we're very concerned about. 15 Farms are happy to have these farmstead maps 16 available on the farm, so if they wanted to come, 17 they were there, but we would prefer not to have 18 them in the hands of state government, because there 19 is a little bit of a trust issue with the concern 20 about FOIL. 21 CAFO regulations has been discussed quite a 22 bit today, but I guess I would just point out that, 23 in the next year, we are going to be working on the 24 next round of CAFO permits. 25 So, there's two different types of permits 1 that dairy farmers can participate in, and one is at 2 the federal level, the "CWA"; the Clean Water Act, 3 and then the other is at the state level. 4 And, so, I'm just going to read part of my 5 report here. 6 For several reasons, it is likely that many 7 NEDPA members will consider opting into the 8 "ECL" permit, which is the New York State permit, 9 the Environmental Conservation Law permit, that for 10 non-dischargers that have implemented a 11 comprehensive nutrient-management plan. 12 So, it was stated earlier by Mark, but, 13 there's a tremendous amount of documentation that, 14 as a CAFO, that you are required to have. 15 And so, one of the concerns, moving forward, 16 is, again, in terms of multiple-agency reporting. 17 So we develop these comprehensive 18 nutrient-management plans. 19 And they're talking about, maybe in the new 20 permit, that's something that might have to be 21 submitted. 22 And, again, with the concern of release of 23 data, we have a lot concern about how those reports 24 might be used, or whose hands they might end up in, 25 so that's certainly a concern. 1 But the other part of the concern is, the 2 time -- there is time to avoid costly regulations 3 impacts on farms. 4 So, when we look at the permit process, when 5 we look at CAFOs, the best way to describe it in 6 easy terms is, sometimes, when we are embarking on 7 new construction, it seems like we're having to have 8 engineers design facilities on our farms that would 9 withstand a nuclear blast. 10 And, so, we end up spending a tremendous 11 amount of money and resources with overengineered 12 plans. 13 And this is a real concern that we have. 14 So, again, it's to our best interests to 15 protect our land, to protect the environment, 16 because that adds to our profitability. 17 What takes away from our profitability is 18 overengineered plans. 19 And, so, we all want to do the right thing, 20 but there seems to be a tremendous amount of 21 overregulation. 22 And, so, that's an area, and I have that 23 documented here, that we'd like to see looked into, 24 in terms of preparation for the next CAFO-permit 25 development process. 1 Labor: 2 I know labor has been touched on, but, I want 3 to go back to a conversation that we had, 4 Senator Valesky, when you came to the Farm Bureau 5 commodities session; and that is: what is a farm 6 family, and what is a corporate farm? 7 So when I came here, I said that I represent 8 115 farm families, and I do. 9 I said that my children are eighth generation 10 on my farm, and they are. 11 But by definition of the bill that was passed 12 in the Assembly, we're a corporate farm. 13 If I look behind me at my members that are in 14 the room, they're all family farms. 15 You know, they're on their farm, their 16 children on are their farm. 17 They're talking about the next generation, 18 they're talking about generations prior to them; 19 but, yet, by definition of the Assembly, they're 20 corporate farms. 21 I would encourage you to take a look at that, 22 and to help us with that. 23 I don't know where the Omnibus Bill is going 24 to go in the next year. 25 In the discussion that we had, we have been 1 told, as has previously been said today, that we 2 need to come to some kind of an agreement. 3 But, I would challenge you to help educate, 4 and if that means calling any of us that are here, 5 farmers here, and bringing your colleagues out our 6 the farms and helping them understand what a 7 family farm is, I would challenge you to help us 8 change the definition of "What is a family farm?" 9 Labor is a real issue. 10 You all know that immigration is an issue. 11 So, if -- I've said -- I've talked a lot this 12 year about unintended consequences. 13 So, we're trying to get immigration reform 14 passed. 15 We know what the House has in front of them. 16 Doesn't mean we're going to stop trying. 17 We're going to work to the bitter end, and 18 hope that we get something done. 19 But then we also have this Omnibus Bill 20 that's looking us in the face. 21 And, so, we don't have enough labor on a 22 given day. 23 I mean, you'll hear some farmers around the 24 state talk about, they just couldn't harvest their 25 crops, in terms of the vegetable farms and some of 1 the fruit farms. 2 On the dairy farms, we're constantly looking 3 for good labor. 4 So labor is an issue; and, yet, we produce 5 the food and fiber for this country. 6 So, I would challenge you to help us with 7 that. 8 Senator Gallivan, earlier you asked the 9 question about, overtime, and has anybody really 10 looked at the numbers? 11 We actually have a member that has a 200-cow 12 dairy, so, she and her husband do most of the work. 13 They have one full-time employee and a couple 14 part-time employees, and it would have cost them 15 $12,000 in terms of overtime. 16 And that's just dollars and cents. 17 That doesn't address things that have been 18 talked about in terms of timeliness, in terms of 19 making sure crops are harvested; just dollars and 20 cents alone for that size farm. 21 Somebody mentioned -- Ron mentioned hiring 22 somebody full-time to just work on regulation. 23 And that's true; I've said that. 24 Farmers that don't have a full-time 25 bookkeeper are gonna have to hire one, because of, 1 not only the state regulation, but the federal 2 regulation that's in place and that's coming down 3 the line. 4 There's a lot for us to keep track of, and 5 you talk about the next generation, you know, that's 6 something our universities are gonna have to 7 incorporate into their curriculum, because the 8 amount of regulation that needs to be paid attention 9 to is incredible. 10 And so, again, another area that we need to 11 be looking at. 12 So, I would compliment everybody that spoke 13 before me. 14 I think they're all excellent issues. 15 The other thing I wanted to mention, we 16 talked about this, Senator Gallivan, in our 17 district: electricity. 18 Vermont has a great model. 19 And so, as you move forward on looking into 20 that, I would look at Vermont's model in terms of 21 how they work with the farming community. 22 I thank you for the invitation to be here, 23 and for your time and for your commitment to 24 agriculture. 25 And I would entertain any questions that you 1 may have. 2 SENATOR RITCHIE: I just have one question. 3 When you're talking about water withdrawal, 4 what kind of wording would help that situation, as 5 far as, having that available on site versus having 6 it sent in, so it's an issue later? 7 TONYA VAN SLYKE: We certainly can work on 8 that. 9 That's a request that we've made to DEC. 10 We had a couple conference calls with the 11 Governor's Office. 12 And. 13 Nobody seems to understand our concern as 14 much as we do. 15 SENATOR RITCHIE: So if that's something you 16 could get to us, possibly we can work to put 17 legislation in in January? 18 TONYA VAN SLYKE: Absolutely. 19 SENATOR RITCHIE: Okay. 20 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Tonya, I have one 21 question. 22 You didn't mention it today, but we had a 23 separate conversation out in the district, about, 24 with the attention on the yogurt -- the Greek yogurt 25 coming into New York, increased need for dairy 1 production, the unintended consequences that you 2 mentioned, do you now have a different spotlight on 3 you regarding the OSHA or PESHT [ph.] inspections? 4 Are you able to elaborate on that? 5 TONYA VAN SLYKE: Sure. 6 Well, Kathy and I spent a tremendous amount 7 of time on that in the last month. 8 Farm -- so there is -- there's a workgroup 9 here in New York that is working to prepare for 10 these OSHA inspections; and that's, NEDPA, New York 11 Farm Bureau, PRO-Dairy, and Farm Credit East as 12 well, is working on trying to help farms prepare. 13 So where we're at with that, 14 Senator Gallivan, is that, OSHA contacted us and 15 said that they are going to start to target dairy 16 farms. 17 The person that we initially met with said, 18 you know, the Governor had the yogurt summit, and 19 dairy farms are growing larger -- 20 We've already had that discussion today about 21 what the reality is. 22 -- and, so, we need to make sure that they're 23 safe workplaces. 24 We've since met with OSHA. 25 They don't have their "LEP," their Local 1 Emphasis Program, approved yet, but Farm Bureau 2 actually -- and Ron McCormick is speaking after me, 3 he can speak more about this -- but, we met with 4 OSHA in New York last week, and they don't have 5 their LEP approved yet. 6 They've applied for the process. 7 And, they say it will be a random inspection. 8 They don't know when they'll be approved. 9 What Farm Bureau I believe heard in 10 Washington, is that they're thinking, maybe, in the 11 late summer. 12 But what we asked them is, you know, making 13 our farms a safer workplace is okay, but you need to 14 give us time. 15 You need to give us time to be able to make 16 sure that the safety programs that we have here in 17 New York State align with what you're going to be 18 inspecting for. 19 We would like you, OSHA, to please review 20 those programs and give us suggestions for updates. 21 We then need to make sure that we're 22 delivering these to the farms. 23 So, generally, OSHA does not come in onto 24 farms unless you have 10 or more employees, or, 25 there's a fatality, or, there's a major injury, or, 1 there's a complaint. 2 However, written into their law is something 3 to the effect of, We can come on if you have migrant 4 camps. 5 What does "migrant camps" mean? 6 That means one or more immigrant laborers. 7 So, there's a lot of farms that could be 8 affected by this. 9 What does it mean financially? 10 It means infractions are anywhere from zero 11 to $70,000 per infraction. 12 And, so, the big thing is, is that, you know, 13 agriculture really hasn't been targeted by OSHA 14 before, so there's a lot to be learned. 15 There's a lot of education that needs to be 16 done, and we need time to be able to pull our 17 resources together and deliver that information to 18 the farms. 19 Wisconsin was targeted back in November 2011, 20 so they've been going through this, and they're 21 working with us as well, on what they've been 22 through. 23 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you. 24 TONYA VAN SLYKE: Thank you. 25 1 SENATOR GALLIVAN: David Fisher, New York 2 Farm Bureau, District 7, and, Maple View Dairy Farm. 3 DAVID FISHER: Good afternoon. 4 Thank you for inviting me. 5 My name is David Fisher. 6 I serve on the board of directors of New York 7 Farm Bureau, the state's largest general advocacy 8 organization. 9 Our 26,000 members are involved in a diverse 10 array of ag production, from dairy farm, equine, 11 fruit and vegetable production, as well as many 12 value-added ag businesses, like our state's many 13 farm wineries, distilleries, and breweries. 14 I, too, am in partnership with my sister, an 15 operator of Maple View Dairy. 16 We are a seventh-generation family farm. 17 We've been farming in the Madrid area in 18 St. Lawrence County since the 1800s, or, our 19 ancestors have. 20 I'm proud to say I have a son that's just 21 returned to the farm, and another one that will 22 return in January, so, we're looking forward to a 23 bright future. 24 I hope we'll be able to continue this family 25 business. 1 One of the challenges we face is the 2 increase, or the high level, of regulatory demands 3 that the state and federal government makes of our 4 business. 5 As a family farmer, a Farm Bureau board 6 member, and town councilman, I'm concerned about the 7 viability of our state's farmland, as well as the 8 people involved in farming. 9 We can have the best soil, most abundant 10 water resources, and diversity of production, and 11 robust markets, but without the farms themselves, 12 we'll not have local food production or an 13 ag industry. 14 Farming in New York is a difficult business. 15 Our taxes are high, as other people have 16 said. 17 Paperwork and regulatory burdens are more 18 extreme than many other neighboring states that we 19 compete with. 20 I have attached a list on the back of this, 21 with many agencies that we have to deal with. 22 SENATOR GALLIVAN: You'll leave that with us. 23 DAVID FISHER: And at times, duplication. 24 And I can attest to that, and in some 25 situations of our own, where we've had multiple or 1 overlapping agencies thinking that they're doing the 2 same thing, or bothering us multiple times to 3 investigate something, that there should have been 4 some communication and not had to do that. 5 I think there needs to be an ongoing 6 conscious effort for state regulations and 7 internal-agency policy tools that carry the 8 authority of a regulation to recognize today's means 9 and methods of farming. 10 Farm Bureau has found it necessary to request 11 legislation to redirect tax-policy interpretation 12 that made an incorrect assumption or exclusion of 13 valid farm practices. 14 Example is, commercial equine operations and 15 maple production had to be defined as legitimate 16 farm practices by specific legislation, at the 17 urging of New York Farm Bureau, in order to be 18 recognized by the New York State Department of 19 Taxation and Finance as an eligible farm practice. 20 Many thanks to Senate Chair Patty Ritchie and 21 Assembly Chair Bill Magee and Senator Valesky, and 22 Marchione, for sponsoring, and getting this passed. 23 These kinds of things should be able to be 24 handled internally, or through Ag and Markets help. 25 Another example of how regulatory policy 1 needs to be -- recognize modern practices touches me 2 as a dairy farmer, as it pertains to anaerobic 3 digestion. 4 At first glance, the digester may look out a 5 place in the landscape with metal cylinders, 6 concrete blocks, and, et cetera, but it's really 7 quite a high-tech system, and could not be better 8 suited to the dairy farm. 9 It's designed to partner with dairy farms 10 perfectly, taking manure and scraps to generate 11 methane that's converted to electricity. 12 The digestion process also produces 13 high-quality fertilizer, bedding, for a significant 14 savings to the farm. 15 The fertilizer produced by the digestion can 16 be applied, and it's lower in odor, not as offensive 17 to surrounding residents. 18 With energy, fertilizer, and bedding costs on 19 the rise, all three products of this anaerobic 20 digestion will bring financial and environmental 21 value to the farm, not to mention fostering 22 neighborly goodwill which can be priceless. 23 As farms like us continue to look at these 24 things or adopt these technologies, State tax 25 officials wavered on whether the digester was an 1 energy-production facility, or if it was classified 2 [inaudible]. 3 The corresponding permits, regulations, and 4 taxes would have put this technology out of reach. 5 Legislation sponsored by Mr. Gallivan and 6 Bill Magee was signed into law last month, that 7 statutorily recognized digesters as an ag facility. 8 Again, thanks to Senator Gallivan, and Magee, 9 for sponsoring this. 10 Statutory clarification could have been 11 accomplished quickly and easily through state-agency 12 policy guidance, but had to be put through the 13 Legislature instead. 14 If the State truly wants to keep farms here 15 in New York and secure the local food network, it 16 has to embrace and encourage today's innovative and 17 environmentally-friendly farming practices without 18 instinctively putting up obstacles of more 19 permitting and regulatory red tape. 20 State policy and regulations need to 21 recognize and address the complexities and 22 challenges New York farmers face. 23 Farmland is diverse, our farms are diverse, 24 and the food we grow is diverse. 25 This also means the problems we wrestle with 1 are diverse and cannot be managed with a 2 one-size-fits-all. 3 We have to be careful not to treat our farms 4 like traditional year-round businesses by imposing 5 labor regulations or statutory mandates that do not 6 recognize us as seasonal businesses, and especially 7 at the mercy of mother nature. 8 When we have to get things done, then we have 9 to get it done. 10 We can't schedule things as we would 11 always -- often like to do. 12 I'm sure some -- there will be comments on 13 our worker's comp rate structure and unemployment 14 costs, and things like that. 15 We'd like to comment again on the labor 16 mandates that may be forced to the farm community 17 through the Farm Worker Fair Labor Practices Act, as 18 it's a misguided and outdated proposal that could 19 fundamentally change New York agriculture. 20 I'd like to thank you all who have worked 21 hard to hold back this. 22 I know it's going to continue to come up 23 again; and so, hopefully, we can find some common 24 ground with some of those people, to push back at 25 least parts of this, if we need to, that need to be 1 pushed back. 2 Otherwise, I fear that New Yorkers may be 3 importing their food, as a local farm network will 4 be eroded under unreasonable and costly labor 5 mandates that this proposal could bring to all sizes 6 of farms. 7 I think Tonya outlined the FOIL issue with 8 the NYSCHAP's program very well, but I'd like to 9 thank Senator Gallivan for sponsoring 5929, which 10 would provide some FOIL protection. 11 I think this is a very serious issue, and 12 we're going to have to try to work something out. 13 I've also attached a letter from our state 14 vet, which is cautioning producers about that 15 program and the FOIL issues that come with it. 16 Thank you for your time. 17 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Questions? 18 SENATOR RITCHIE: Thank you. 19 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you. 20 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you. 21 We appreciate your time. 22 Thanks, David. 23 Vice President of the Wyoming County Farm 24 Bureau, also from Senator Gallivan's district, 25 appreciate you making the trip, Pat McCormick. 1 PAT McCORMICK: Good afternoon, Senators. 2 I'd like to say a little bit about my farm to 3 begin with. 4 I work on a seventh-generation farm. 5 We've been in family business since the early 6 1850s. 7 I work in partnership with my parents and my 8 brother. 9 We have a 400-cow dairy, and, hopefully, we 10 consider ourselves, very much, a family farm. 11 We run it, like, all work together. 12 We even work together with our employees. 13 We don't just send our employees out in the 14 fields and tell them, Here, go do what they want. 15 We work together, just like we're all family. 16 We get along great, and, hopefully, we can 17 continue that. 18 For farmers in my generation, sobering 19 changes lie ahead: the questions, the methods and 20 means of the way we operate our farms. 21 I agree with comments that have already been 22 made today, but as a younger farmer, I see areas of 23 regulation and mandates that affect my ability to 24 stay in business in the near future. 25 Farm families, like mine, are at a 1 crossroads of several controversial policy areas 2 that state lawmakers, that design regulations and 3 laws, are giving serious consideration to despite 4 the consequences of the farm community. 5 This gives me great reason for concern, which 6 I would like to share with you now. 7 Animal-welfare mandates: 8 Animal welfare and animal rights are the 9 popular themes that seems to go -- keep resonating 10 with the public. 11 As a dairy farmer, I take great pride in how 12 I treat my -- care for my animals and treat them. 13 I work hard in keeping up with the latest 14 best-management practices based on sound research 15 and science. 16 We have professional medical recommendations. 17 Any attempt to legislate and regulate how a 18 farmer should care for his animals outside of the 19 oversight of a state veterinarian is a misplaced 20 initiative, and should be rejected, which leads me 21 to my second point, the FOIL issue. 22 Dave and Tonya have both done a great job at 23 expressing this issue already. 24 I won't speak to it that much. 25 I would just like to say, it's very important 1 to our financial and environmental stability that we 2 keep FOIL, the exemption for the Farm Animal Act, 3 farm and our -- and DEC. 4 I would like to thank Senator Gallivan for 5 sponsoring the Senate bill. 6 And I would like to talk about reversing 7 policies that nickel-and-dime our family farms. 8 There's a sweep of major changes that reverse 9 the trending of nickel-and diming farm businesses, 10 through various mandates, become various 11 comprehensive strategy to transform New York into a 12 business-friendly state. 13 For example, one of the biggest ones is the 14 filing fee for farm partnerships. 15 Small farms, like mine, often feel like we're 16 being nickeled-and-dimed to death, just pushes up 17 our costs of production. 18 The State filing fee for partnerships, which 19 I have an LLC, is a poster child for this, because 20 it's based on gross receipts and not net profit. 21 This makes for an expensive proposition 22 toward moving to a multi-ownership structure to keep 23 the farm in the family. 24 Please support eliminating this fee. 25 This fee on our farm, for example, it can 1 range anywhere from 1500 to 2500 dollars a year, 2 depending on how much receipts we have taken in on 3 the farm; whereas, you know, we have a separate LLC 4 for our land, which is a $50 LLC fee. 5 It should be a straight fee for the LLC. 6 Just, no matter what goes on in the LLC, it 7 should be a straight 50- or 100-dollar fee, or, 8 based on the net profit, not gross proceeds. 9 One of the other things I'd like to talk 10 about is worker's compensation costs. 11 These costs are very -- make us very 12 uncompetitive in the market with our neighboring 13 states and global competitors. 14 The recent increase in lost-cost filing rates 15 raises the cost to pay into the worker's 16 compensation programs, while there are no 17 initiatives to reduce the program costs overall that 18 help -- might mitigate future increases. 19 These are important programs that protect 20 workers and support them if there is an injury; 21 however, the employee costs are always on the rise, 22 as they have been. 23 Farms are unable to absorb these financial 24 mandates, that still provide local food, and for 25 local employment to -- for our workers. 1 In the last calendar -- comparing our last 2 two calendar years on our farm, for example, in 3 2012, we paid $5600 for unemployment insurance. 4 In early 2013, we had one incident, our 5 second incident in 13 years since we've been hiring 6 outside employment, and our rates went up to just 7 over $10,000 a year, for one incident that was not a 8 major incident. 9 The guy broke his hand, and, he didn't have 10 to have surgery. 11 He was just off work for a week, and it went 12 up $4500, just about. 13 I would like to reiterate that we have 14 serious concerns about, there's overregulation. 15 You've already heard about CAFO -- the CAFO 16 regulations, and our -- about the labor bill, and 17 what's coming down with that, and, currently, with 18 the new OSHA regulations. 19 In closing, I would like to thank you for 20 your time today, and I would entertain any questions 21 you might have at this time. 22 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Anyone? 23 Did you follow the speed limit on the way up 24 here? 25 PAT McCORMICK: Yeah, I did. 1 [Laughter.] 2 PAT McCORMICK: The cops were out all over 3 the place. 4 SENATOR GALLIVAN: The questions have already 5 been asked. 6 PAT McCORMICK: All righty. 7 SENATOR GALLIVAN: We do appreciate your 8 time. 9 PAT McCORMICK: All right. 10 Thank you. 11 SENATOR GALLIVAN: And taking the time to 12 drive on up. 13 PAT McCORMICK: Thank you. 14 SENATOR GALLIVAN: And we'll follow up, of 15 course. 16 Thanks, Pat. 17 Faye. 18 Faye Beckwith, from the Christmas tree 19 industry. 20 FAYE BECKWITH: Thank you. 21 SENATOR GALLIVAN: You are welcome. 22 Thanks for your patience. 23 FAYE BECKWITH: I am Faye Beckwith, and my 24 husband and I run a very small Christmas tree farm 25 in Oswego County. 1 I'm here today to speak on behalf of the 2 Christmas tree farmers across the state, and 3 I appreciate the opportunity as being viewed as a 4 part of the agricultural community. 5 It's a little bit new to us, I guess. 6 Christmas tree farmers, you probably realize, 7 but may not, we work between 10 and 11 months of the 8 year, for 7, 8, 10, or 12 years, to produce a 9 product; a marketable product. 10 It isn't a plant that you just put in the 11 ground and it grows, and then we sell it. 12 It's just as much work as any other 13 agricultural commodity. 14 We do make valuable use of marginal lands, in 15 many instances-- excuse me -- across the state. 16 We contribute to the economy, not only with 17 work, you know, employing people, and purchasing 18 products, but, also, we pay sales taxes. 19 Other than the floral industry, and perhaps 20 the wineries, I'm not sure, we pay a lot of sales 21 tax. 22 I don't have stats with me today. 23 But, Christmas tree farmers are very 24 environmentally conscious. 25 We produce a product that is environmentally 1 friendly; however, the regulations that we face are 2 not. 3 Because our marketing takes place, or our 4 product takes place, over a very short period of 5 time, you realize, we have, maybe, a 4- to 6-week 6 window of opportunity to market our product; and, 7 so, we're target marketers. 8 And I will keep my comments then brief, 9 because we have a target issue. 10 Many of our issues are federally-related, but 11 one of the problems we have with the state is that, 12 DOT, very often their regulations change without 13 adequate notice. 14 Our industry is less sophisticated. 15 We do have some sophisticated members, but, 16 for the most part, we're just small farmers. 17 And, we have people who really are in areas 18 where they don't have even Internet access. 19 So, the state does require that we pay our 20 sales tax over the Internet. 21 It doesn't present a problem to the majority 22 of our members, but, there certainly are a number of 23 them that have been disadvantaged, and are learning, 24 but, there was no advanced notice or advanced 25 warning to that. 1 The biggest issue we have is with the DEC. 2 New York State does not accept EPA 3 regulations or the registration process. 4 New York State requires a totally separate 5 process, and, it's very, very difficult. 6 All of our competitor states take the EPA 7 approvals and they automatically adopt them, so this 8 puts our members at a competitive disadvantage. 9 Those that live near the borders of Vermont 10 and Massachusetts, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, are 11 really at risk for breaking the law by buying 12 chemicals in a neighboring state and using them on 13 their farm. 14 It takes up to two additional years after a 15 product has been approved by the EPA for 16 New York State to approve the product. 17 And, oftentimes, the newly-improved products 18 are safer and more environmentally friendly, and in 19 New York State, we can't use them. 20 Our hands are tied. 21 The other issue, is that our products are 22 more expensive, which, clearly, doesn't make sense 23 to me, and I'd like to give you just an example: the 24 product, Valor. 25 Valor cannot be used on Christmas trees. 1 It's not approved in New York State for use 2 on Christmas trees. 3 In other states it can. 4 It can only be used in an open-field 5 application. 6 This is a herbicide. 7 SureGuard is approved in the state of 8 New York, but it costs a lot more. 9 And depending on the size of your farm, it's 10 very, very expensive. 11 So it's almost like, if you use the analysis 12 of generic drugs versus the name brand, we're forced 13 in New York State to use SureGuard, and we can't use 14 Valor for our Christmas tree application. 15 So, the DEC is our major stumbling block, 16 I think. 17 Most of our members are -- we hire, 18 predominantly, independent contractors, so some of 19 the regulations don't necessarily apply. 20 The -- obviously, the increased minimum wage, 21 many of us are resorting to the temporary agencies, 22 hiring of our workers, especially young workers. 23 The other issue we have is, of course, the 24 New York City market, for some reason, is closed to 25 a New York State product: Christmas trees, wreaths, 1 evergreens. 2 We don't understand that. 3 Perhaps you would have some answers for us as 4 to why that is occurring. 5 We've had people come to our farms, load 6 up -- make purchases, load up their trucks, take 7 them downstate, and then are turned away. 8 They cannot -- you know, they file for the 9 appropriate permits, whatever, and they can't market 10 their product. 11 Most of the trees that are being sold and the 12 wreaths that are being sold in New York City, we 13 understand to be Canadian imports. 14 The bigger competitor for us, of course, is 15 the Chinese tree. 16 And, the fake-tree industry has created an 17 organization called the "American Christmas Tree 18 Association." 19 And these trees are coming, predominantly, 20 out of China. 21 And the American Christmas Tree Association 22 has lots of money and no regulations at all to 23 promote their product. 24 And the most recent exciting event on the 25 Internet and on Facebook, relative to the 1 American Christmas Tree Association, is that you 2 should definitely buy a fake tree because your dog 3 won't pee on it. 4 You know, we don't have those kinds of funds. 5 Our hands are tied for marketing. 6 And we just -- this regulation with the DEC, 7 I don't know if it's going to make any difference at 8 all, but we really need some attention to that. 9 Anything that can untie our hands, or at 10 least bring them, you know, one hand out from behind 11 the back, would really be beneficial to our 12 industry. 13 And I guess that's really all have I to say. 14 I know it's a very late hour, and 15 I appreciate your time. 16 Any questions for us? 17 SENATOR VALESKY: I may have misheard you, 18 but, before, you talked about the EPA regulations 19 and applications in other states. 20 I thought you had mentioned DOT. 21 Did I hear you incorrectly, that you had 22 issues with the department -- with the 23 Transportation Department? 24 FAYE BECKWITH: Yeah, relative to 25 transporting trees and trucking, we are not directly 1 involved in that, so I don't have any firsthand 2 information. 3 But, I can certainly glean some, if you're 4 interested in that. 5 SENATOR VALESKY: Sure. 6 FAYE BECKWITH: Because, what I've been told 7 is that, and I don't have a clear example, but that 8 they'll make a new regulation and not inform 9 anybody. 10 And then what happens is, guess what? You're 11 pulled over on the road. 12 So, I don't have the details about that. 13 Fire codes are always an issue. 14 We do want, and appreciate the opportunity, 15 to display real Christmas trees properly in a proper 16 container. 17 Fresh foliage cannot burn under any 18 circumstances. 19 So I think, you know, that's a struggle that 20 we have. 21 But, the DEC is really more important at the 22 moment. 23 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you. 24 FAYE BECKWITH: I appreciate it. 25 Thank you. 1 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Two questions. 2 FAYE BECKWITH: Yes. 3 SENATOR GALLIVAN: The first, you talked with 4 the DEC and the EPA, and you gave an example of 5 Valor and SafeGuard [sic], you used the idea of 6 generic versus name brand. 7 For the example you gave, are they the same 8 ingredients, or the same chemicals? 9 FAYE BECKWITH: They're an identical product. 10 Now, I'm not a chemist. 11 SENATOR GALLIVAN: But, that's okay. 12 FAYE BECKWITH: But that's what I've been 13 told. 14 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Are you able to get us 15 that specific information? 16 FAYE BECKWITH: I'll be glad to, yes. 17 SENATOR GALLIVAN: And just make sure we have 18 the exact -- 19 FAYE BECKWITH: And, of course, the cost 20 differential is what concerns our membership, or, 21 our Christmas tree -- 22 SENATOR GALLIVAN: No, understood. 23 But, I mean, whether there's the labels, so 24 we can see that and have that right in front of us. 25 FAYE BECKWITH: Glad to. 1 SENATOR GALLIVAN: The second thing has to do 2 with New York City, the market being closed. 3 And right at the end, you talked about a DEC 4 regulation. 5 Is the market closed in New York City because 6 of New York City government -- 7 FAYE BECKWITH: I think it's because -- 8 I think it's New York City -- 9 SENATOR GALLIVAN: -- or because of the state 10 DEC? 11 FAYE BECKWITH: -- government, or, whatever 12 is going on there. 13 SENATOR GALLIVAN: But you don't know exactly 14 why? 15 FAYE BECKWITH: I don't know exactly why. 16 We've been trying to get answers, and it's 17 been forever -- 18 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Because we can look into 19 it, but you're not -- but the DEC -- does the DEC 20 have anything to do with -- 21 FAYE BECKWITH: I'm not sure that they would. 22 Now, and I may have misspoke. 23 SENATOR GALLIVAN: That's all right. 24 I'm just trying to understand it. 25 All right, thank you. 1 FAYE BECKWITH: Yeah, we've been trying to 2 understand that for a while. 3 You know, it's New York State; we want to 4 promote a New York State product in New York State. 5 And the other concern we have is not relative 6 to regulatory, but, we are concerned about the 7 appearance of the dissolving of the Pride of 8 New York program. 9 And, you know, we understand that the 10 grape -- I like wine. 11 So I do understand that the grape industry is 12 really the darling of agriculture right now, things 13 that you can taste. 14 I think that's valuable, to "taste" New York. 15 I think it's a wonderful program, but I'm 16 hoping that they won't discard the Pride of New York 17 for a product that can't be "tasted." 18 And that's important to our industry as well. 19 So, thank you very much. 20 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Appreciate your time. 21 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you. 22 SENATOR GALLIVAN: We're good. 23 FAYE BECKWITH: Oh, okay. 24 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you. 25 I would like to thank, first, Senator Ritchie 1 for inviting us up here; 2 And then, of course, all of you for being 3 here today. 4 We are -- we have about a month -- an -- 5 approximate, another month of hearings in different 6 parts of the state with the different industries. 7 The goal then, ultimately, is to compile a 8 single report with recommended proposed changes, 9 whether it comes in the form of regulations or a law 10 to eliminate these regulations, and whatever we do 11 with the process. 12 So, that can be made available. 13 Ultimately, we will make it available when 14 it's published, on all of our websites, and 15 accessible that way. 16 We would anticipate, our goal is to get that 17 done, sometime by the end of November. 18 I'm not sure if that's possible, but, the 19 idea is, to have it fully prepared, so that when we 20 begin the legislative session right after the first 21 of the year, that then becomes the project and our 22 priority to take on as we move into that next 23 session. 24 So, thanks again. 25 Thank you, Senator. 1 SENATOR RITCHIE: Well, and I would just like 2 to thank the three of my colleagues for making the 3 trip up. 4 Certainly appreciate all the hours that 5 you're putting in, traveling the state, to hear 6 firsthand from, not only those involved in the 7 agriculture industry, but health and the many other 8 areas that you're focusing on. 9 So, thank you all. 10 SENATOR MARCHIONE: And I certainly just want 11 to thank Senator Gallivan, and Senator Ritchie as 12 well, certainly, for chairing these hearings. 13 Senator, thank you so much for this. 14 And, Patty, thanks for having us. 15 Today I think we've heard some very 16 compelling testimony from the leaders in the 17 critical field of agriculture, and, of course, on 18 family farms as well. 19 And I just want to thank all of you for 20 taking part in this, and to know that this is a 21 very -- these are very serious issues to all of us, 22 and that we will be working on them, and taking it 23 forward. And in November, we will be looking at 24 moving forward. 25 So, again, thank you all. 1 It was very eye-opening to me, and 2 I appreciate it. 3 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thanks, everybody. 4 (Whereupon, at approximately 3:40 p.m., 5 the public forum on agriculture regulatory reform 6 held before the New York State Senate Majority 7 Coalition concluded, and adjourned.) 8 9 ---oOo--- 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Public Forum/Town Hall Agriculture Regulatory Reform - To Learn from Businesses and Industry Experts Which Regulations Are the Least Useful, Least Cost Effective and Therefore Should Be Eliminated

Transcript