Public Hearing the Regents Reform Agenda: "Assessing" Our Progress

1 BEFORE THE NEW YORK STATE SENATE

STANDING COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION 2 ------------------------------------------------------ 3 PUBLIC HEARING 4 THE REGENTS REFORM AGENDA: "ASSESSING" OUR PROGRESS 5 ------------------------------------------------------ 6 7 Syracuse City Hall

Common Council Chambers, 3rd Floor 8 233 Washington Street

Syracuse, New York 13202 9

October 1, 2013 10 11:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. 11 12 13 PRESIDING: 14 Senator John J. Flanagan

Chair 15 16 SENATE MEMBERS PRESENT: 17 Senator John A. DeFrancisco 18 Senator Elizabeth Little 19 Senator Thomas F. O'Mara 20 Senator James L. Seward 21 Senator Cecilia Tkaczyk 22 Senator David Valesky 23 24 25 1

SPEAKERS:PAGE QUESTIONS 2

John King 9 24 3 Commissioner

New York State Education Department 4

Anthony S. Bottar, B.A., J.D. 9 24 5 Vice Chancellor

New York State Board of Regents 6

Rick Longhurst 72 77 7 Executive Administrator

PTA/Advocate 8

Aimee Rogstad Guidera 82 98 9 Executive Director

Data Quality Campaign 10

Reginal J. Leichty 82 98 11 Attorney/Partner

EducationCounsel, LLC 12

Kevin Ahern 107 121 13 President

Syracuse Teachers Association 14

Stephen Allinger 107 121 15 Director of Legislation

New York State United Teachers 16

Corliss Kaiser 145 157 17 Superintendent

Fayetteville-Manlius School District 18

Diana Bowers 145 157 19 Superintendent

Hamilton Central School District 20

David Syracuse 174 188 21 Science Teacher

Tompkins-Seneca-Tioga BOCES 22 23 24 25 1

SPEAKERS (Continued): PAGE QUESTIONS 2

Sharon Contreras 204 214 3 Superintendent

Syracuse City School District 4

Jennifer Pyle 204 214 5 Deputy Director

Conference of Big 5 School Districts 6

Michael Cohen 228 245 7 President

Achieve 8

James Viola 249 260 9 Director of Government Relations

School Administrators Association of NY 10

Paul Gasparini 249 260 11 Principal

Jamesville-Dewitt High School 12

Timothy Heller 249 260 13 Principal

Groton Elementary School 14

Russell Kissinger 249 260 15 Principal

Mount Markham High School 16

Maureen Patterson 249 260 17 Assistant Superintendent

Instruction - K-12 18 Liverpool School District 19 David Little 282 292

Governmental Relations 20 New York State School Boards 21 Bill Phillips 293 306

President 22 Northeast Charter Schools Association 23 Anthony Brindisi 312 315

Legislative Member 24 New York State Assembly 25 ---oOo--- 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Good morning. 2 Good morning. 3 (Audience says "Good morning.") 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Good morning. 5 All right. 6 Welcome to everyone. 7 I said to Senator Valesky, I'm totally 8 unaccustomed to being -- I think I'm on a perch 9 here. 10 But, it's very nice to be here, and this is 11 my first time in this building, having been to 12 Syracuse a number of times, but I feel like -- 13 I almost feel like I'm in church, with the way the 14 pews are setup. 15 So, I know Commissioner King is behaving 16 already, so we look forward to hearing his 17 testimony. 18 But, let me start by welcoming everybody. 19 And there is a -- there's a lady outside. 20 Actually, I don't know her last name, but I do know 21 her first name, and it's Carmelita. 22 Carmelita has been extraordinarily helpful in 23 putting everything together for us to be here today. 24 And for anyone who does these types of 25 events, including all my colleagues, you know that 1 these things don't happen without the support and 2 help of a lot of people; our media services people. 3 A lot of planning goes into these things, and 4 we are very happy that all of you are here today. 5 And I want to explain a couple of different 6 things, introduce my colleagues, and then get 7 started, and I apologize for the delay. 8 We are scheduled to be here from 11:00 to 9 3:00. 10 We had our first hearing on Long Island, and 11 that was scheduled from 10:00 to 2:00. 12 We started at 10:20, we got out at 3:20, so, 13 we ran an hour over, but I think, on the whole, we 14 had a very good reception. 15 We had excellent testimony from a lot of 16 different people, including State Education 17 Department, who is here as well. 18 And I'm going to begin by introducing my 19 colleagues, and I'm going to start, not to my 20 political left, but just to my left here, with 21 Senator Valesky and Senator DeFrancisco, both of 22 whom reside in Syracuse and represent this great 23 community. 24 And, we are also joined by 25 Senator Betty Little, Senator Jim Seward, 1 Senator Tom O'Mara, and, Senator Cecilia Tkaczyk, 2 who is our newest member in the Senate. 3 Some of our colleagues up here are members of 4 the Education Committee; others are not. 5 But, I'm going to put this in 6 parenthetically: 7 Chairman DeFrancisco has been the Chair of 8 the Finance Committee for a number of years, and he 9 has been to about 500 more hearings than probably 10 any of us, so one of the things that he is very 11 adept at is, brevity, being succinct, and asking 12 people to be, accordingly, essentially, act the 13 same. 14 So, here at the basic components: 15 We are -- we have four hearings scheduled. 16 We are probably going to add a fifth hearing. 17 We have been on Long Island. 18 We're in Syracuse. 19 We're going to be in Buffalo in two weeks, 20 the city of New York two weeks thereafter. 21 And there's probably an excellent chance that 22 we will be in Albany for our final hearing. 23 The premise of what we're doing here, there's 24 no predisposition or any kind of agenda, for anyone 25 who may think that. 1 We are endeavoring to listen to people who 2 are in the field, at the professional level, at the 3 parent level, at the teaching level, at the 4 administrative level, to see what is going on with 5 the Reform Agenda that's being advanced by State Ed 6 and the Regents. 7 And our expectation is, that we will get a 8 wealth of information. 9 That we will probably conference on a lot of 10 this stuff at the end, and figure out what 11 recommendations we may advance, if any. 12 And as many of my colleagues know, the 13 primary obligation of the Legislature is to, in 14 essence, provide a very broad framework and the 15 financing of education. 16 Educational policy is set by State Ed and the 17 Board of Regents, and we respect that distinction, 18 but we also know that we have to be responsive to 19 our constituents. 20 I have spoken individually and collectively 21 to all of my colleagues. 22 Senator Valesky's office has been extremely 23 helpful, as has Senator DeFrancisco, in getting this 24 list together. 25 I want to be clear: No one should feel that 1 someone is being included or excluded by design. 2 We have had requests to testify. 3 We have tried to match up a broad 4 cross-section of different people. 5 For example, today, we have charter schools 6 testifying. They did not testify on Long Island. 7 Today we have the PTA, who I believe is 8 clearly and fairly representative of parents. 9 We have NYSED who is testifying again, having 10 done so on Long Island. 11 So what we are really shooting for is to get 12 the best input possible. 13 We had a good exchange on Long Island. 14 I expect that we will have the same today. 15 And I do know we have -- on Long Island we 16 had a little glitch. We did not have a flag in the 17 room. 18 So I'm going to ask Senator Valesky to stand 19 and lead everyone in the Pledge of Allegiance. 20 (All persons say:) 21 "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the 22 United States of America and to the republic for 23 which it stands, one nation under God, 24 indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." 25 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator, thank you very 1 much. 2 And one last thing before we bring up the 3 State Education Department and the Regents, I will 4 do this politely, and I will do it diplomatically: 5 No one is going to read their testimony. 6 We're all intelligent people, to an extent, 7 and we can read things that have been submitted. 8 Everything that's been submitted has already 9 been up online. It's available for people to see. 10 If you want to summarize, fine. 11 If you want to speak ad lib, fine. 12 But, we're going to try and keep it as tight 13 as possible, and I'm sure that my colleagues are 14 going to have questions. 15 And as we ask you to summarize and be 16 succinct, certainly, I know my colleagues will do 17 the same. 18 And having said that, I'd ask the 19 Commissioner and the Vice Chancellor if they would 20 come up and start us off. 21 ANTHONY S. BOTTAR, B.A., J.D.: Good morning, 22 Senators, Chairman. 23 Thank you for the opportunity to present a 24 few remarks to you this morning. 25 It's my intent to provide you with a broad 1 overview of the action that the Regents have taken 2 over the past decade or so to set the stage, so to 3 speak, for some more specific comments that will be 4 delivered by Commissioner King. 5 As you well know, one of our responsibilities 6 in supervising the State Education Department is to 7 oversee K-12 education, and the education that is 8 provided to approximately 3 million students 9 throughout the state. 10 The topic for today, the Regents Reform 11 Agenda, from our perspective, is a continuation of 12 work that began many, many years ago. 13 It wasn't too long ago, and probably within 14 the memory of many people in this room, that a local 15 diploma was something that was granted by a local 16 school district using local school standards. 17 And in the late '70s and '80s, we 18 realized as a state that that did not provide 19 students with enough of an education for the world 20 that existed then. 21 So about 30 years ago, the Regents began a 22 process of elevating the standards for all students, 23 and one of the first steps was the adoption and 24 implementation of a Regents competency test, which 25 was administered to all students as a prerequisite 1 for obtaining a local diploma. 2 The Regents diploma that most of you are 3 familiar with continued on a parallel track. 4 That stayed in place for quite a while, and 5 then in the '90s, we realized that that Regents 6 competency test was not adequate. 7 At that time I had served on a local school 8 board, and I remember feeling proud when we received 9 reports from the administration that we had pass 10 rates and graduation rates in the low 90s and 11 high 80s. 12 We felt very proud of ourselves. 13 But then we realized that the Regents 14 competency test, which was an avenue that about 15 40 percent of the students used, really only met 16 about a seventh- or eighth-grade level of 17 achievement. 18 And so the Regents said, "Well, that's not 19 sufficient," and we started to make some changes 20 that were phased in over a decade, which result in 21 the system that is in place now, where students are 22 required to take five Regents examinations to 23 graduate. 24 As that process evolved, we continued to 25 speak with parents and teachers, business leaders, 1 and it was clear to us that that system was not 2 adequate; that even though we had pass rates on a 3 statewide basis in the 70s -- excuse me, 4 graduation rates, that the students really were not 5 prepared for the next level, either in college, a 6 two-year college, or working in the community. 7 So we developed at the time, I'm not quite 8 sure we used the phrase "Reform Agenda," but we were 9 thinking then about making changes to what we 10 required. 11 And one of the things that we thought of is, 12 Well, are these students really prepared? 13 The students who graduate from high school 14 with a Regents diploma, which is based on completing 15 five, are these students really prepared? 16 And the Commissioner and his colleagues, they 17 did some back-mapping, and they looked at 18 achievement in state university and city university 19 and New York schools. 20 And what we learned, and it was eye-opening 21 for some of us, that many, many students who 22 graduate from high school are not prepared to take 23 college-level courses for credit; they require 24 remediation. 25 The percentages, I believe, are not 1 percentages that the wider community understands. 2 Here in Onondaga County, it's my 3 understanding that approximately 60 percent of the 4 students who attend OCC, the local community 5 college, require some type of remediation before 6 they are able to take credit-bearing courses. 7 Those percentages vary around the state, but 8 somewhere -- and the Commissioner can give you more 9 specifics -- between 40 and 60 percent of 10 high school grads require some type of remediation. 11 Now, some have criticized us for focusing 12 exclusively on college, but that hasn't been our 13 focus. 14 We meet regularly with business leaders. 15 In fact, this Friday, the Commissioner will 16 be in town at a leaders meeting out at Welch Allyn. 17 About 200 business leaders will be in attendance, 18 along with students. 19 And the main topic for our discussion, is 20 that the business community does not have students 21 who are prepared to learn the specific skills needed 22 in the business community. 23 I've heard the same thing to the east in the 24 Utica area, where a member of the Assembly, 25 Anthony Brindisi, is working with a group, trying to 1 raise the standards for high school grads; not 2 college grads, but high school grades, so that 3 they're able to learn the skills. 4 So that was the predicate, the background, 5 for the Regents Reform Agenda. 6 It has several parts. The Commissioner may 7 talk about them. 8 If you strip it all down, it's higher 9 standards, a stronger curriculum, an assessment 10 system, that provides us with feedback on whether 11 the students are learning, and, an evaluation system 12 for the educators. 13 Now, as part of this, the way this was 14 rolling out, was also at that point in time when the 15 economy was in serious trouble. 16 And if you look at our Regents Reform Agenda 17 and compare it to the Race To The Top, they fit 18 together rather well. 19 So New York, along with a number of other 20 states, applied for the Race To The Top, and we were 21 successful in securing a substantial sum, 22 approximately $700 million. 23 At the time we applied, many people supported 24 that application. 25 Legislation was adopted to strengthen the 1 application, and school districts around the state 2 saw, I believe, 90, 91 percent buy-in to the Race To 3 The Top applications. 4 So we were all moving in, generally, the same 5 direction of raising the standards, a process that 6 had started many, many years ago. 7 We are using that money to strengthen our 8 data system, to make sure we understand how students 9 perform so that it will inform instruction. 10 We're using it to help us strengthen teacher 11 performance, leadership performance at the principal 12 level, and we are optimistic that this process will 13 yield the results, which is, a citizen who is 14 prepared and able to move on in life, to either 15 function at a high level in college or to function 16 at a high level in the workplace. 17 We believe that there are many challenges. 18 I'm quite sure that we will hear some of 19 those today. 20 But we believe with your support, we'll 21 accomplish the objective in front of us. 22 Thank you very much, Senator. 23 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you. 24 Commissioner, I wanted to ask if you would 25 direct your remarks in a couple of areas, and I know 1 you're going to have some comments. 2 For anyone who is interested, there is an 3 extensive PowerPoint presentation from the 4 department, which I know the Commissioner is not 5 going to go through slide by slide. 6 But, one of the things that came up yesterday 7 was test scores, and the delay in the release of 8 those test scores. 9 So if you could touch on that, AIS, and the 10 implementation as it relates to Regents in 11 particular, because those are things that have come 12 up, and I know you're aware of them. 13 But, if you would speak to those components 14 in your remarks, I'd appreciate it. 15 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: Sure. 16 Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the 17 members of the Senate who have gathered today. 18 I appreciate the opportunity to talk with 19 you. 20 I want to try and build first on the 21 Vice Chancellor's remarks, to say that the work that 22 we're doing at the department is squarely focused on 23 this very clear objective of ensuring that our 24 students who graduate from high school graduate 25 ready for college and career success. 1 The work that we're doing on the Common Core 2 standards reflects that straightforward goal, and 3 the Common Core standards were developed by mapping 4 back from college and career success, asking: Given 5 what students need for college and career success, 6 what does that mean that they need to know at 7 tenth grade, at seventh grade, at fourth grade, all 8 the way back to kindergarten? 9 Higher education: 10 The business community and K-12 educators 11 from around the country joined with governors and 12 chief state school officers in constructing those 13 standards. 14 And we have been engaged since the Regents 15 adoption of those standards in 2010, in supporting 16 the work of schools to move forward that 17 implementation. 18 It's important to emphasize that the 19 standards are not about testing. They are also not 20 about a national curriculum. 21 They are about a common definition across 22 states, and 45 states have adopted these standards, 23 along with the District of Columbia, the Department 24 of Defense schools, because they represent an 25 indicator of college- and career-readiness. 1 Curriculum decisions still remain at the 2 local level, and that's important to emphasize; 3 although, we are building an extensive set of 4 resources at the department to support districts' 5 implementation of Common Core. 6 It's important to say that what the 7 Common Core asks for is a set of changes in 8 instruction: 9 For students to read more challenging texts 10 that will ensure that they're on a trajectory to 11 college- and career-readiness; 12 That students write more frequently, not just 13 in English-language arts, but across the curriculum; 14 That students learn to use evidence from 15 texts to support their arguments; 16 That students do more problem-solving in 17 mathematics. 18 And the work that we're doing on professional 19 development is in support of those shifts in 20 instruction. 21 This year, in third through eighth grade, we 22 had our first assessments that reflect the 23 Common Core. 24 Students were required to use more evidence 25 from texts, to write more, to do more 1 problem-solving in mathematics. 2 The scores were indeed lower than they had 3 been previously. 4 That was similar to the experience of 5 Kentucky that was a year ahead of us in 6 implementation of the Common Core. And, 7 undoubtedly, similar to the experience of the other 8 states as they transitioned their assessments to the 9 Common Core. 10 But the fact that the scores were lower is an 11 indicator of a new baseline; a new set of standards. 12 It doesn't mean that schools taught less or 13 that teachers taught less; but, rather, that we 14 raised the standards to better reflect college- and 15 career-readiness. 16 Going forward, the Regents exams were also 17 changed to reflect the Common Core. 18 This year, beginning with the algebra exam, 19 which we required of students, and will reflect the 20 Common Core. 21 And students will be able to opt to take the 22 English-language arts Common Core exam as well. 23 Those requirements will phase in over the 24 next four years, such that, the students who 25 graduate in 2017 will be the first students required 1 to pass Common Core Regents exams. 2 The Regents adopted the standards in 2010. 3 Again, the first students required to pass 4 Common Core Regents exams for graduation will be the 5 class of 2017, so, a 7-year phase-in process for the 6 Common Core. 7 It's important to say, on those Regents 8 exams, we will continue to have two score levels, as 9 we have for some time: one that is the passing 10 standard, and one that reflects college- and 11 career-readiness. 12 And the challenge for us as a state is to 13 close the gap between those two things. 14 Last year in the state, we had a 74 percent 15 graduation rate for those students who started in 16 ninth grade, four years earlier, but only 35 percent 17 of those students actually met the bar for 18 college- and career-readiness, and that leads to the 19 remediation problem that the Vice Chancellor 20 described. 21 Turning to AIS, one of the challenges now, 22 with a larger percentage of students scoring at the 23 1 and 2 level -- we have four levels of performance 24 in the state test, 1, 2, 3, 4 -- with a larger 25 number of students scoring at the 1 and 2 level, 1 districts have to reassess how they provide support 2 to those students who are performing at the lowest 3 levels. 4 What the Regents' action at their last 5 meeting requires, is that districts serve roughly 6 the same percentage of students in intervention 7 services as were served previously under the old 8 standards, allowing districts to continue to focus 9 their intervention resources on those students who 10 are lowest-performing. 11 Finally, on the issue of the test-score 12 release, this first year of new assessments means 13 that we had to do a process called 14 "standard setting." 15 Anytime you have a new assessment system, you 16 have to bring in educators from across the state to 17 look at the assessment, to look at information on 18 student performance, and to advise the department on 19 the standards to use to identify student performance 20 at the proficient level on that exam. 21 "Standard setting" meant that the test scores 22 were released somewhat later this year than they 23 will be in future years, but not particularly late. 24 There also were some districts that, because 25 of a technology issue, got their scores turned over 1 to parents a little bit later than had initially 2 been projected. 3 I think that's the issue that was touched on 4 in a newspaper article yesterday. 5 Just -- the place where I'd end, is just that 6 there -- change is always hard. 7 Anytime you try to raise standards, there 8 will be anxiety around that, and there will be the 9 challenge of bringing the whole community through 10 the change process. 11 I was here in the Syracuse area a couple 12 weeks ago for a "back-to-school," and I visit school 13 districts a lot -- 14 I had the pleasure of visiting schools with 15 Senator Flanagan earlier this year. 16 -- and was in Fayetteville-Manlius. 17 You'll hear from the superintendent there 18 later in the hearing. 19 And what you see in Fayetteville-Manlius is a 20 district where they committed early to the work on 21 the Common Core. 22 Even when the standards were still in draft 23 form in 2009, they began having teams of teachers 24 and administrators getting to know the standards, 25 and integrating the standards into their curriculum 1 and instruction in the district. 2 I met with teachers and principals, 3 school-board members, as well as visited classes, 4 when I was in Fayetteville-Manlius, and I was struck 5 that their early engagement around the Common Core 6 meant that there was a clear understanding across 7 their community about what the standards would mean; 8 a clear commitment to integrate the standards with 9 good work that was already happening in the 10 district. 11 And I'm sure that 12 Superintendent Corliss Kaiser will talk about the 13 work that's going on in the district. The way they 14 focused on writing, for example, which we know is an 15 area where many of our students are underprepared 16 when they leave high school. 17 And Fayetteville-Manlius is committed to 18 intensive work across the curriculum on writing, and 19 integrating that work with the work of the 20 Common Core. 21 So what we know, is that there are districts 22 that are making huge strides, based on these new 23 higher standards. 24 And our task at the department is to support 25 that work throughout the state. 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Commissioner, thank you 2 very much. 3 I will probably have some comments and 4 questions, but I'm going to start with 5 Senator DeFrancisco, and go to Senator Valesky, and 6 then Senator Little, and any of my colleagues who 7 I'm sure would like to make inquiries. 8 Senator DeFrancisco. 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Tony, how long have you 10 been on the Board of Regents? 11 ANTHONY S. BOTTAR, B.A., J.D.: 1996. 12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: So you're -- well, you 13 started, about, when you were 12? Is that what -- 14 [Laughter.] 15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: The reason I ask that, 16 the Board of Regents -- the members of the Board of 17 Regents do not get paid. 18 This is a commitment by a Central New Yorker, 19 right here, one of our members of this community, to 20 education in the state of New York. 21 And, I just want to thank you. 22 I mean, you don't get the thanks. 23 The other part that you'd normally get, along 24 with the Commissioner, on an hourly basis, is 25 criticism. 1 And, to me -- 2 I get criticized. I got criticized a couple 3 times along the way. 4 -- and my theory about criticism, is that the 5 only people who don't get criticized are people that 6 don't do a damn thing. 7 Okay? 8 Those are the ones who will never get 9 criticized. 10 And the amount of time that you've put into 11 this transition, which is monumental, needs to be 12 congratulated, first of all. 13 Second of all, in any transition, there's 14 going to be bumps in the road. 15 Obviously, if the curriculum is going to be 16 more of a challenge, there's going to be lower test 17 scores for a while. 18 But, do you not make that transition so that 19 everyone feels good when they get a diploma, and 20 don't have the skills, and are one of the 60 percent 21 that go to a college, a community college, that need 22 remediation? 23 That's criminal. 24 So, although there may be bumps in this road, 25 I support this transition 100 percent, and I'll 1 continue to do so. 2 Now, with respect to some questions, the 3 questions I had go more to the Core curriculum. 4 Just for my own edification, how was the 5 actual -- how were the tests for the Core curriculum 6 actually created? 7 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: So the 8 test-development process -- 9 Thank you for your comments. 10 The test-development process starts with the 11 standards; and so you take the standards, and then 12 you begin to build items from those standards; so, 13 at each grade level, using the standards to 14 construct items. 15 And there's a multi-stage review process for 16 the items that include educators from around the 17 state. 18 You build the items. 19 You then field test the items; you try them 20 out with students in the state. You see how the 21 items performed with actual students. 22 And then you make adjustments to the items to 23 construct the eventual test. 24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Who actually created 25 the tests? 1 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: So the vendor for 2 the test creation is Pearson. That's the company 3 that builds the test, but with tremendous oversight 4 from, both, department staff, and our technical 5 advisory committee, which is a committee of 6 measurement experts from around the country who 7 advise us on the construction of the tests. 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Are the tests the same 9 in Kentucky as they are in New York State? 10 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: Not yet. 11 So, Kentucky created their own tests to 12 reflect the Common Core. 13 New York did so. 14 We are also participating in a consortium of 15 states, 20 states, that are working together to 16 build a future generation of assessments that would 17 be common across states. 18 Because, one of the flaws in past standards 19 efforts around the country, particularly No Child 20 Left Behind, was that every state was given the task 21 of defining their own standards and assessments, and 22 what you had was very different standards between 23 Massachusetts and Mississippi, for example. 24 And, now, the federal government has put 25 resources into the work of developing a potential 1 future common assessment, and the Regents will 2 consider that assessment down the road. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: All right, because -- 4 and I'll quit after this, because others have 5 questions, but, I have grandchildren. 6 It's hard to believe, because I look so good. 7 [Laughter.] 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: But I have 9 grandchildren, and those grandchildren are taking 10 these tests. 11 And there was a question -- I got several of 12 them, but I'm just going to ask you one. 13 "Use pictures, numbers, and words to explain 14 another way to say '6500.'" 15 Numbers and words I could probably figure 16 out, but how does somebody describe "6500" in 17 pictures? 18 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: So there are a 19 number of ways -- 20 [Laughter.] 21 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: -- but one is, that 22 you might draw figures that represent thousands, and 23 then you would draw the figures that represent 24 hundreds as a tenth of the thousands. 25 It's another way of helping students, 1 particularly in the earlier grades, visualize the 2 concepts behind the mathematics. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Oh, and that's the 4 theory, to visualize? 5 Well, I'd recommend that you scrap the 6 pictures -- 7 [Laughter.] 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: -- and let them learn 9 the math in the traditional ways that I think will 10 be more helpful to them, rather than trying to grope 11 with a picture of some type. 12 But, that's the type of thing that really has 13 to be dealt with as we develop this further. 14 But, I think there are some valid concerns of 15 the testing, and that those concerns have to be met 16 as we go through the process. 17 Thank you. 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you, 19 Senator DeFrancisco. 20 Senator Valesky. 21 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you. 22 Well, it's always tough to follow 23 Senator DeFrancisco, that's for sure. 24 But let me, first, I know we didn't have an 25 opportunity, all, because we're running a little 1 late, to make opening comments. 2 I just want to thank the Chairman of the 3 Committee, Senator Flanagan, for being here today, 4 and for convening this set of hearings around the 5 state. 6 We, as individual members of the Senate, hear 7 on a daily basis from those who are either involved 8 in the formal education of our children, or, in some 9 way, shape or form, connected to it. 10 That's an awful big part of our job as 11 members of the Senate. 12 So thank you, and welcome to Syracuse. 13 We appreciate your outstanding advocacy that 14 you have shown for all of the years that you've been 15 Chairman of the Committee. 16 I'm just going to ask one, sort of, broad 17 question, and I'm basing this upon the comments that 18 I receive, and have heard about the Reform Agenda, 19 and I guess it's -- it's really a question for you, 20 Vice Chancellor. 21 And, again, thank you for your service, and 22 longevity of it, on behalf of the people of 23 Central New York. 24 But, you had mentioned in your comments, in 25 describing the Reform Agenda, and the time frame, 1 and the financial resources, particularly from the 2 federal government, the Race To The Top application 3 that was filed back in 2009 or '10, somewhere in 4 that time frame, you also reminded us that, at that 5 same time is when we were hit with a pretty severe 6 recession. 7 So my question to you, and on behalf of the 8 Board of Regents: 9 There are two overarching concerns that 10 I have heard from the education community -- 11 administrators, teachers, parents, and so on, and 12 those questions involve the allocation of resources 13 to implement the Reform Agenda, and the time frame 14 in which the agenda is expected to be met, or 15 benchmarks along that path, towards implementation. 16 I hear all the time, the resources are 17 insufficient, and the time frame is not what it 18 potentially should be. 19 From the perspective of the Regents -- 20 And I understand that all of us here have a 21 very significant role to play when it comes to 22 resources, obviously. That's part of the budget 23 process. 24 -- but, has the Reform Agenda been given 25 sufficient, and have school districts, in 1 particular, been given, sufficient resources to meet 2 the expectations of the Regents in the time frame 3 that you have established? 4 ANTHONY S. BOTTAR, B.A., J.D.: I suspect 5 that my former colleagues in the school-board 6 community and superintendents would say that there's 7 never enough money to accomplish the change that we 8 have set out. And I respect that. 9 I remember, clearly, struggling with budgets 10 as a school-board member. 11 The dilemma we have, is that if we wait until 12 everyone agrees that there is enough money to 13 accomplish everything, then very little change will 14 occur. 15 There's a certain urgency about this at our 16 table. 17 We are mindful of the budgetary constraints 18 on school districts. 19 We understand how difficult it is for a 20 superintendent to present a budget with the 21 limitations that are in place. 22 But from our perspective, saying that we 23 should slow down or back off because there isn't 24 enough money to do everything, takes the focus off 25 of the real objective here, which is to make sure 1 the students are prepared for either credit-bearing 2 work at the college level, two- or four-year degree, 3 or ready to work any job that will pay a decent 4 wage. 5 So we're mindful of it, but we don't see a 6 way to slow it down. 7 If we prioritize, you know, our objectives, 8 I believe we will find a way to do this. 9 SENATOR VALESKY: Commissioner, do you have 10 anything to add to that? 11 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: I have two points: 12 One is, that the Regents have long advocated 13 for greater equity in school finance. 14 And I think one of our challenges, is that 15 resources are not evenly distributed. 16 And that's a challenge, not just in New York, 17 but around the country, and something I know you all 18 will grapple with in the upcoming budget process. 19 But a second issue is, I don't think we, as a 20 state or as a country, are very clear on how dollars 21 get spent. 22 We have conversations, particularly in 23 legislatures, not only our own, but across the 24 country, about how resources are distributed. But, 25 there is, in a sense, a black box of 1 local-expenditure decisions. 2 And, so, every district has a 3 professional-development line item of some sort, and 4 the question becomes, How is that professional -- 5 how are those professional-development dollars used? 6 Now, some districts prioritize the work on 7 the Common Core in their use of 8 professional-development resources; others less so. 9 Some districts use creative scheduling 10 strategies to make sure that teachers have time to 11 meet in grade-level teams or departments to talk 12 about the work on the Common Core, to look at 13 student work together. Other districts struggle 14 with that. 15 And so I think there's work to do to ensure 16 that we identify those districts that are going 17 about this in the best way, and really use them as a 18 model to inform the work in other districts, and 19 support those districts that aren't innovating. 20 So here in Syracuse, for example, there's an 21 innovation zone that Sharon Contreras, the 22 superintendent, has worked out with her bargaining 23 units, where the schools have extended learning time 24 for students and extended professional-development 25 time for teachers. 1 That's a promising innovation. 2 We'll see how that translates into changes 3 and results, but we've got to do more of that. 4 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you both. 5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you, 6 Senator Valesky. 7 Senator Little, and then she will be followed 8 by Senator Tkaczyk. 9 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you very much. 10 Thank you, Commissioner. 11 As been stated before, the Common Core is a 12 change, and change is difficult, but, one of the 13 things that I question, and am concerned about, is 14 I understand that, when the scores are returned to 15 the school districts, there's an analysis of how the 16 students did on that. 17 As a former teacher, I'd really want to know 18 how my students did. I'd really want to see the 19 test's result, and how they answered the questions. 20 And as to Senator DeFrancisco's example, 21 I'd want to know which ones of my students were able 22 to visualize "6500," just so that you really could 23 get to the core of what their teaching needs are. 24 And I just think the test would have much 25 more value if the teacher could see the results, and 1 not just an analysis that's out there, that 2 such-and-such a percentage did this, and that, and 3 the other thing. 4 So if we could accomplish that, I don't know 5 if that's -- is there any reason not to give them 6 the results of the tests? 7 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: Sure. 8 So, it's important to say what resources are 9 available for educators in the state. 10 So, one of the things that we've made 11 available is actually the test-design documents. 12 The most transparent the State has ever been 13 about assessment design -- the actual criteria that 14 are used to evaluate each of the questions, the 15 actual criteria that are used to select each of the 16 passages -- to inform teachers' understanding of 17 what the assessments intend to measure. 18 With the announcement of the scores, we 19 provided item-level analysis. 20 So, the "RICs," or, the data centers, in each 21 of the big five could develop for teachers, item 22 analysis that would say, at the level of standards 23 and groups of standards, how students did on the 24 different question types. 25 We also released about 25 percent of the 1 items from every test, and with those items, an 2 analysis of -- an explanation of what the correct 3 answer was, and an explanation of the misconceptions 4 that may have been responsible for students choosing 5 the incorrect option; 6 As well as, for the open-ended questions, the 7 rubric that was used to score those open-ended 8 questions, and samples of student work at the 9 different levels of performance. 10 Now, we can't release all of the items 11 because some of them are for the item bank for 12 future tests. 13 Depending on the state, the [unintelligible] 14 and the number of items, the percentage of items 15 ranges that are released each year. 16 We would like to be able to release more 17 items. 18 The challenge is, that items come with a 19 cost. There's an item-development cost. 20 And, it's important to make sure that you 21 have an item bank for assessments, going forward. 22 New York is on the -- actually on the low end 23 of expenditures for assessments costs; the 24 per-student assessment cost. 25 And one of the constraints that that imposes, 1 is that we are -- we need to have a limited number 2 of items released so that we have items for future 3 item banks. 4 SENATOR LITTLE: But aren't these tests, are 5 they just disposed of when this company just throws 6 them away? 7 Or, couldn't they just return the same tests, 8 so the teacher got to look at how Mary did and how 9 Johnny did, and who needs what kind of help, in 10 order to progress? 11 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: So, again, for each 12 student, the teacher will get an analysis -- 13 SENATOR LITTLE: An analysis. 14 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: -- of which 15 questions they got right and wrong, related to each 16 of the standards. 17 But the tests themselves, the items, some of 18 them are saved for future test administrations. 19 So, that's why the tests are secure, and all 20 of the items are not distributed each time. 21 Some of the items are saved for future 22 assessments. 23 And that's the challenge, and that's a cost 24 trade-off around assessment development, and all 25 states grapple with this. 1 Again, all states release a different 2 percentage of items, based on the number of items 3 they need to keep back for the item bank for future 4 test administrations. 5 SENATOR LITTLE: So this company would charge 6 more to release the entire test? 7 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: If you don't have 8 items for the bank, yes, the development of the test 9 will cost more. 10 SENATOR LITTLE: One other thing that I hear 11 a lot of, and I represent 48 school districts, many 12 of them rural, is that the Common Core, and with the 13 changes, and with the lack of resources, many of the 14 schools are doing away with their business 15 departments. 16 And while, you know, everyone likes to see a 17 lot of children and a big percentage go on to 18 college, it's almost necessary today, there are 19 children who don't to go college; and, yet, we're 20 not really preparing them to go out into the 21 workforce at the local levels? 22 Is there any encouragement for these schools 23 to keep their -- some part of a business program? 24 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: Yes, I'll let the 25 Vice Chancellor add, but, we are very committed, 1 that we're not just focused on college-readiness, 2 but also career-readiness. 3 Business teachers have an important role to 4 play there, as do to career- and technical-education 5 teachers. There's an important role for the BOCES 6 there. 7 The Regents are engaged in a discussion that 8 we've been having for some time now, about how we 9 might better incorporate career-readiness into the 10 graduation requirements to create multiple pathways 11 for students. And that's a conversation I expect we 12 will continue. 13 And, that, to the extent that there is a 14 viable career pathway that is clearer for districts, 15 that may result in them prioritizing resources for 16 things like business teachers and career- and 17 tech-ed teachers. 18 But, I'll let the Vice Chancellor answer. 19 ANTHONY S. BOTTAR, B.A., J.D.: One of the 20 challenges we have is trying to find a way to offer 21 a rich alternative to a so-called "college track." 22 And we're concerned that we do not develop a 23 two-tier system, where some students prepare for 24 college, and then the rest are prepared for, quote, 25 "a job," or whatever that might mean. 1 So we have been working on this for a while. 2 And that's one of the purposes of the meeting 3 on Friday here in Syracuse, is to talk about that 4 some more. 5 We want to make sure that if there are 6 multiple pathways to graduation, and to college and 7 career success, that we've mapped that out well so 8 the districts will have something to really offer 9 the students. 10 And we hear about the comments that you're 11 hearing as well. 12 In districts that do not have the resources, 13 they're stripping away from certain programs and 14 just offering, you know, what their vision is of 15 college-readiness. 16 So, hopefully, when we have this in place, it 17 will provide districts with options. 18 And it will also help the places where 19 teachers are prepared, something more than they have 20 right now. 21 I mean, right now, career/technical education 22 is kind of ephemeral, and not many education schools 23 offer enough courses in that area. 24 So once we have this in place, we hope it 25 will help address the supply of teachers. 1 SENATOR LITTLE: Well, I think it's really 2 important, because some of the -- I have paper mills 3 and some large companies, medical-device things, and 4 everything's done by computer, so it's not just 5 "show up at the door and you can work here." 6 So I am encouraged that you will continue on 7 that, because I think it is necessary. 8 And thank you very much. 9 ANTHONY S. BOTTAR, B.A., J.D.: Thank you, 10 Senator. 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Little, thank you. 12 Senator Tkaczyk. 13 SENATOR TKACZYK: Thank you. 14 I just wanted to, first of all, thank you, 15 Senator Flanagan, for holding this hearing. 16 I think it's timely, because we're getting a 17 lot of questions and concerns from parents and 18 teachers and administrators. 19 And I appreciate your being here. 20 I represent a 5-county wide district, and 21 I have about 28 school districts, many of them 22 rural, and many of them stressed because of the lack 23 of resources, because, not only have we implemented 24 changes, we've also, over the years, reduced State 25 aid. 1 And to my school districts, that's been a 2 huge -- a huge challenge. 3 My -- the concerns that were raised at a 4 public forum that I held in the Albany area, with 5 some of my colleagues, were mentioned by 6 Senator Valesky, which is, there's a big concern 7 about, we -- the teachers and administrators haven't 8 had the time to implement the Common Core standards 9 before the kids were getting tested on them, and 10 that schools may not have the resources to implement 11 those testing systems. 12 Do you -- and I know you've gotten concerns 13 and feedback from tons of people. 14 Are you making -- planning to make any 15 changes to how we're implementing the Common Core? 16 And I just want to reiterate, no one has said 17 to me, We don't want to do the Common Core. 18 Everyone agrees, getting kids more prepared 19 for college and career, we're all on board. 20 Everyone wants to implement the Common Core. 21 I think how we do it seems to be the biggest 22 hurdle. 23 And one more comment, and then I'll let you 24 respond, is, when you have a school district that's 25 struggling to pay for kindergarten, and you have to 1 divert so much of your resources to the testing 2 component, that may not make sense to them locally. 3 And there may be other ways for local 4 districts to improve the educational program for 5 those kids to be college- and career-ready. 6 So I'm thinking, is there a way for those 7 schools to be -- to have some flexibility in their 8 version of being college- and career-ready? 9 ANTHONY S. BOTTAR, B.A., J.D.: Well, I don't 10 have a crystal ball on what we might do. 11 I can share with you our experience with the 12 roll out of the Regents diploma. 13 I mean, that was adopted as a policy item 14 back in, I believe, '97. 15 And we still have some adjustments that we 16 made, or accommodations, are still in place today. 17 So, with respect to that reform, which we 18 believe raised the level of students graduating 19 with, you know, at least a tenth-grade education, by 20 about, 35, 40 percent. 21 We had a long phase-in period, where, if we 22 ran into a problem, if there was a hurdle, there was 23 a bump, you know, we would step back and make 24 adjustments. 25 Now, I'm not sure this is going to be as easy 1 for us as that was, because there are more pieces 2 moving now than there was then. 3 But we -- you know, there is a track record 4 there of us making adjustments, as needed, to make 5 sure that we are were able to stay on track. 6 But to give you a specific right now, it's 7 too early, because we just don't have enough 8 information. 9 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: Two thoughts I would 10 share, and I appreciate the question: 11 One is, that we've still got to grapple -- 12 the point I was making with Senator Valesky earlier, 13 we've got to grapple with how the money is spent 14 that's already allocated. 15 You know, since 2010, when the standards were 16 adopted, in federal and state resources alone, 17 there's some, billion, billion and a half, maybe 18 more, that's been allocated to 19 professional-development activities. 20 So the question becomes: Were those dollars 21 used as effectively as possible in each district? 22 And I think we at the department need to do a 23 better job of highlighting where those resources 24 have been well-used, and supporting models of good 25 practice. 1 We also have used a portion of the Race To 2 The Top dollars that came to the department, to 3 build professional-development resources; curriculum 4 materials that are not required, but are optional, 5 can be a resource for districts; a video project, 6 videotaping excellent teaching practice reflecting 7 the Common Core from around the state; a variety of 8 tools for professional development, for engaging 9 parents around the Common Core. 10 We made all of that available through 11 training that we've done in Albany, that we've had 12 upwards of 10,000 educators participate in over the 13 last three years; as well as a website we launched, 14 engageNY.org, that now has had, I think, nearly 15 30 million page reviews, and has become a go-to 16 resource. 17 But, it's never enough. There's always a 18 need for more professional development. 19 And I think across the education spectrum of 20 stakeholders, not just in New York, but around the 21 country, everyone is focused on the need for more 22 professional development around the Common Core 23 standards, but, really, the underlying instructional 24 shifts: the work on math problem-solving, the work 25 on building academic language and vocabulary, in the 1 early grades, and so forth. 2 So we're committed to that. 3 And I think in this year's budget process, 4 one of the considerations should be, How do we make 5 sure there are adequate resources to support 6 professional development throughout the K-through-12 7 system as we move towards higher standards? 8 The other point I'd make on flexibility is, 9 we've got to do a better job communicating to 10 districts the flexibility that they have. 11 So, for example, the evaluation law leaves 12 80 percent of the decisions about the evaluation 13 process to local districts and their bargaining 14 units. 15 And districts have a lot of flexibility 16 around whether they add assessments, how many, what 17 kinds. And I think sometimes districts have not 18 leveraged that had flexibility as well as they 19 might, and that's something that we're working with 20 districts on. 21 We know there are certainly districts that, 22 this fall, as they look back on the first year of 23 implementation of the evaluation system, have made 24 adjustments to their approach to assessment: 25 Districts that are deciding to use prior 1 academic history rather than pre-tests to set goals 2 for particular courses; 3 Districts that have decided to scale back the 4 number of interim assessments that they give on a 5 particular subject; 6 Districts that have realized that they were 7 giving multiple assessments that assessed, 8 essentially, the same thing, and weren't necessarily 9 giving them good additional information for 10 instruction, and are scaling back. 11 So -- and we support those, and I think we 12 can do a better job providing technical assistance 13 to districts as they do that kind of review. 14 SENATOR TKACZYK: Does the department track 15 how much of -- part of the budget is going to 16 implementation of the Common Core and the testing 17 assessment? 18 Like, can you give us a sense of how much of 19 the education budget is being consumed by that 20 activity? 21 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: At the state level, 22 you know, we have a set of assessment contracts, 23 but, again, they're fairly modest, compared to other 24 states, at the low end of spending. 25 For example, I think our 3-through-8 test 1 development is some $32 million over a 4- or 5-year 2 period, something like that. 3 So, the per-student costs of assessments at 4 the state level is relatively low. 5 At the district -- 6 SENATOR TKACZYK: What -- I'm sorry. 7 What is the cost per student? 8 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: The per-student cost 9 is probably somewhere on the order of $12 per 10 student. 11 Many states are more on the order of $30 per 12 student. 13 At the local level, it's hard had to identify 14 resources spent on the Common Core separate from the 15 core work of the school. 16 I mean, if you're gathering teachers for 17 professional development, hopefully, that 18 professional-development time is focused on the 19 Common Core. 20 The State has spent hundreds of millions of 21 dollars in textbook aid and software aid over the 22 last few years. 23 Sensibly, that would be a set of resources 24 that would go towards the purchase of Common Core 25 materials. 1 So it's difficult to parse out the cost of 2 Common Core separate from the costs of doing 3 English-language arts and mathematics and literacy 4 across all subjects. 5 SENATOR TKACZYK: I just, with that, because 6 I'm a parent, and a former school-board member, 7 I want to echo what Senator Little said about 8 getting the assessments and getting the test results 9 to the teachers. 10 And as a parent, I looked at what my son went 11 through this year, and there was a test that he just 12 totally bombed. And to me, as a parent, like, well, 13 I want to see the test, so I can go over it with my 14 son, and so he can understand what he didn't do well 15 at. And that was not an option. 16 And I just think that that's -- you know, 17 we're all in this together, to improve the education 18 for our kids. And, if we don't understand what 19 they're missing and not connecting with, we can't 20 work with them on those aspects. 21 So I just find that the whole aspect of, 22 you're taking a test, but you don't have the ability 23 to see how you did, the child, kind of strange. 24 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: Again, just to be 25 clear, there's a lot of information about how 1 students did on the test items. 2 It's -- the question is: What percentage of 3 the actual items themselves; the actual math 4 problems, or the actual text and multiple choice, or 5 written-response questions, are released? 6 Again, we're at about 25 percent. 7 Other states are in a range from, probably, 8 25 percent to, anywhere, 60 percent or more. 9 Most states keep some number of items for 10 future test banks so that they have items that can 11 replenish over time. 12 SENATOR TKACZYK: Okay. 13 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you, 14 Senator Tkaczyk. 15 Senator Seward. 16 SENATOR SEWARD: Well, thank you, 17 Mr. Chairman. 18 I, too, want to thank you, Senator Flanagan, 19 for sponsoring this series of hearings around the 20 state to assess where we are in terms of the 21 Regents Reform Agenda, giving various stakeholders 22 an opportunity to have their say in front of our 23 Senate Education Committee. 24 And I, too, want to just go on record as 25 saying, I think the objective of making sure that 1 every student that graduates from a New York State 2 high school is, in fact, college- and career-ready. 3 That is the objective that I think we all 4 share, and, how we get there, obviously, is a matter 5 of discussion; and, in particular, the rollout and 6 the implementation in terms of the Regents Reform 7 Agenda is a subject for discussion, which is, 8 I assume, why we're here today. 9 You know, I'd note, in terms of timing, just 10 at the time the Regents Reform Agenda was adopted -- 11 being considered and adopted, was, at the same time, 12 because of the recession, and what particularly hit 13 us here in New York State, just at the time when the 14 gap-elimination adjustment was implemented, and even 15 though we have been, in the years since, crawling 16 back from that. 17 And, in fact, the Senate, I'm very pleased to 18 say, is going on record in our Senate-only budget 19 this year, we want to eliminate the gap-elimination 20 adjustment for all school districts in 21 New York State, and that will help them in terms of 22 meeting these objectives. 23 But there's been a lot happening at a time 24 when many districts have had fewer resources. 25 I wanted to just zero in on two areas, 1 getting back to that question of flexibility. 2 One of the important concerns that I have 3 heard from my many educators in my district is, with 4 these New York State learning modules associated 5 with the Common Core, that there's a very scripted 6 approach now in the classroom. 7 Some of our best teachers are innovators, and 8 create a very, not only an interesting, exciting 9 atmosphere in the classroom, but, also, you know, 10 really help those students learn in very innovative 11 ways. 12 And the concern I'm hearing, that with the 13 Common Core and these learning modules, that ability 14 to be innovative in the classroom is out the door. 15 A very scripted approach is being taken, 16 because they feel they need to take that approach in 17 order to -- you know, we have those tests looming at 18 the end. 19 And Senator Little mentioned business courses 20 being canceled in some schools. 21 I've even heard of recess being canceled in 22 some of the lower grades in the elementary schools 23 in my district. 24 Once again, just not time to -- for recess. 25 Toys being taken out of the kindergarten and 1 first-grade rooms, because there's just no longer 2 time to allow some of those young students to blow 3 off steam through recess and that physical activity 4 that goes with that. 5 How would you -- how would you address those 6 concerns, in terms of the ability of local districts 7 and local teachers in the classroom, to have that 8 flexibility and allow for that innovation even with 9 the Common Core? 10 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: I really appreciate 11 the question. 12 I can't emphasize enough, the modules are 13 there as a resource for districts to adopt, adapt, 14 or ignore, and for teachers to adapt to the needs of 15 their students. 16 We actually say on our website where the 17 modules are posted, this is not -- you know, some 18 version of "This is not a script." 19 The idea is to provide resources that people 20 can use. 21 Now, we do, in the modules, lay out an 22 approach to how one might teach the given text or 23 the given math problems as a 24 professional-development resource, but those modules 25 are for districts to use as they see fit. 1 Curriculum is locally determined. 2 I will say, the modules emphasize 3 application. 4 For example, the English -- many of the 5 English-language-arts modules were developed in 6 partnership with Expeditionary Learning, which has a 7 long history around project-based learning. 8 Now, if people like those, they can use them. 9 If they don't like them, they can make other 10 decisions. Again, curriculum decisions are made 11 locally. 12 In terms of the breadth of the curriculum, 13 one of the challenges we have is that, too often, 14 there is a mistake made, that if we spend more time 15 on test prep and less time on learning, students 16 will do better. 17 And the department has given very specific 18 guidance on this. 19 We don't think that rote test prep is the 20 best way to help students achieve. 21 Indeed, you want students to have experiences 22 with art, music, have time for physical education, 23 so that they are well-rounded, so that they develop 24 well as young people; so that they develop, not only 25 to be college- and career-ready, but to be good 1 citizens. And, the work in art and music also 2 supports students' success in other aspects of the 3 curriculum. 4 So, you know, these curriculum decisions are 5 made locally, but I take the challenge that we need 6 to make sure that people understand the flexibility 7 that they have around the modules, that they are not 8 required. They are a resource for districts to use. 9 SENATOR SEWARD: One final question, which 10 would lead to the testing; the student testing 11 aspect of this, and the changes that have been 12 occurred there. 13 I think one of the reasons that many 14 educators feel they need to stick with the scripted 15 approach that's being presented, rather than just an 16 option or a resource, but, you know, as their 17 so-called "bible" in the classroom, is that -- 18 because of the test at the end. 19 And, you know, the first round of testing, 20 you know, we're still awaiting additional data 21 regarding that. 22 The early signs, as -- if I understood your 23 testimony correctly, is that there are lower test 24 scores with the changes in the testing, which is 25 causing a great deal of concern, certainly among 1 parents, educators, and school boards, and 2 administrators...everyone. 3 What -- and the impact on the teacher 4 evaluation, just in a -- and a reflection on the 5 local school district. 6 What conclusions do you take from these lower 7 test scores? 8 And what impact do you feel they should have, 9 in terms of evaluating a teacher at this stage of 10 the early -- early stage of the implementation of 11 this Common Core? 12 And, in terms of reflection on the students 13 and our quality of education in New York State? 14 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: I think it's 15 important to emphasize that these assessment results 16 this spring set a new baseline match to college- and 17 career-readiness. 18 In many ways, they tell us something we 19 already knew at the upper grades. 20 So if you look -- I mentioned in my 21 testimony, if you look at our statewide graduation 22 rate, 4-year graduation rate, it's 74 percent. 23 But if you look at the percentage of students 24 who are performing at the level where they would be 25 able to enroll in credit-bearing coursework, that's 1 actually 35 percent. 2 If you look at our NAEP performance -- 3 The "NAEP" is a national assessment that's 4 given to samples of students in every state, and 5 often considered the gold standard for comparing 6 student performance across states. 7 -- if you look at the percentage of students 8 in New York who are scoring at the college- and 9 career-ready level, at the proficient level, on the 10 NAEP, it's, roughly, 35 percent. 11 If you look at performance on the PSAT and 12 SAT by New York State students as a predictor of 13 college performance, you again get to a number 14 somewhere between 35 and 40 percent. 15 So, in many ways, the fact that our 16 proficiency rate on third-through-eighth-grade 17 assessments is now in the 30s is more a reflection 18 of the assessments giving us a more accurate picture 19 of where students are in that trajectory to 20 readiness. 21 And, again, this is similar to what other 22 states will see as they transition to the 23 Common Core standards. 24 Because it was a new baseline, we made sure 25 in our waiver from No Child Left Behind that no new 1 schools would be identified as priority schools in 2 the accountability status, no new districts would be 3 identified as focus districts, based on this new 4 baseline of results. 5 And in the teacher evaluation, it's important 6 to say that the state tests represent 20 percent of 7 the evaluation for, roughly, 20 percent of the 8 teachers whose students take the test in grades 4 9 through 8. 10 And in calculating the growth scores for the 11 portion of the teacher evaluation, the growth scores 12 look at how similar students did on the test that 13 they took last year versus this year; and, so, the 14 percentage of students scoring at the 3 or 4 level 15 actually doesn't affect those growth scores. 16 The growth scores reflect relative 17 performance. 18 And the percentage of teachers, for growth 19 scores, identified as ineffective, developing, 20 effective, or highly effective, this year were 21 virtually identical to last year. 22 But that is clearly something that is not 23 well understood, and it's something that we have to 24 work to make sure we communicate fully. 25 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you, Senator Seward. 1 Senator O'Mara. 2 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you, Senator Flanagan, 3 and thank you for hosting this hearing here in 4 Syracuse today; coming up from Long island to be 5 with us. 6 Thank you, Commissioner and Vice Chancellor, 7 for sharing your time with us today. 8 I fully share the sentiments of 9 my colleagues, and the anxiety over implementation 10 and change. 11 It's never easy in anything we do in 12 government, or anything in life. 13 So I understand the challenges in regards to 14 that; and, therefore, I had some questions on that, 15 that I don't need to reiterate, because they've been 16 fairly well covered here already. 17 One area I wanted to follow up with you on 18 was with regard to getting the test results back to 19 the teachers, and you mentioned the test bank in 20 keeping materials back. 21 Can you explain that to me? 22 I mean, I'm just visualizing a copy machine, 23 and being able to copy these things, or scan them, 24 and give them back to the teachers. 25 So what are you actually withholding that you 1 can't get back to the teachers? 2 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: And so this is an 3 issue, again, not just for New York State, but for 4 all the states and all large-scale assessment 5 systems. 6 There are, essentially, four types of 7 questions on an assessment. 8 One set of questions are the operational 9 questions that students will take, they're scored, 10 and that you release. 11 A second set of questions are field-test 12 questions, embedded field-test questions; questions 13 that don't count towards the score, but you're, 14 essentially, trying out for future versions of the 15 test. 16 If you think back to taking the SAT, for 17 example, or the -- or something like that -- LSAT, 18 there's a set of questions that are just field-test 19 questions. 20 You don't know, as the test taker, which are 21 field tests and which are real, but the field-test 22 questions are for the development of future tests. 23 A third category of questions is questions 24 that appear in multiple years so that you can have 25 what's called "linkage" between the tests, so you 1 can figure out, Was this year's test similarly 2 difficult to last year's test? 3 And then the fourth category are operational 4 questions that you may not release because you're 5 going use them again in future years. 6 And if you assume some level of cost to the 7 development of each item, there is a judgment that 8 every state has to make on the percentage of 9 operational items that you release, and the 10 percentage of operational items you keep for use in 11 future years. 12 The tests are secure, so they're not to be 13 photocopied or kept locally. They come back to the 14 State or are destroyed. 15 And, so, the goal is to have a set of 16 questions that you might use again, as a way of 17 managing the cost of test development. 18 You also have a risk that happens when you 19 release all items, in the history of, sort of, 20 testing in the country. 21 When you release all items, you also have the 22 risk that people then reduce the curriculum to the 23 items. 24 And, so, rather than teaching fractions, they 25 teach a version of fractions that's reflected in 1 Questions 6, 7, 19, and 24 from the prior year. 2 So, there's, both, a pedagogical reason to 3 not release all the items, which is to not make the 4 tests the curriculum; 5 But more relevant for most states, including 6 New York, is the cost judgment on what portion of 7 the items you release. 8 But, again, we have 25 percent of the items. 9 There are a lot of items that are available, 10 and they're annotated with, again, why the answers 11 are -- why the correct answers were correct, why the 12 wrong answers were wrong, samples of student work. 13 And that body of resources will grow over 14 time. 15 And again, locally, they can do a very 16 detailed item analysis for students. 17 So they can say, this student struggled with 18 fractions questions that involved mixed numbers, for 19 example. 20 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you. 21 That really did help clear it up for me, 22 believe it or not. 23 But -- I appreciate that. 24 Now, the final question I have is, I've 25 gotten a lot of criticism of the Common Core, the 1 tests, from constituents, and I'm assuming you're 2 getting it at the state level as well, with regard 3 to, not the subject matter of the curriculum, but 4 the subject matter of the fact patterns used in the 5 questioning on the exams that is, somehow, 6 politically motivated or directed, or what have you, 7 from a variety of different viewpoints that you may 8 have. 9 And I wonder if you could address that, if 10 you're hearing that at the state level, that I am 11 from my constituents, and what goes into the process 12 to avoid that type of a concern. 13 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: So, yeah, I have 14 heard that, maybe less in New York, actually, 15 nationally. 16 I think two things are going on there: 17 One is, some conflation between standards and 18 curriculum. 19 So, for example, the Common Core has an 20 appendix that lists texts -- books, articles, so 21 forth -- that could be used at each grade level to 22 teach the Common Core. 23 And in some states, and including some of the 24 web traffic in New York, the focus has been on those 25 texts, to say, Well, if this text is taught, that's 1 offensive. Or, I wouldn't want my child to read 2 that text. And so forth. 3 The Common Core isn't a curriculum. 4 Curriculum decisions remain local. 5 So, that text list is a resource, as are the 6 modules that we're publishing. 7 And, so, if people don't want to teach a 8 given text that we have included in the modules, 9 they don't have to. 10 If people don't want to teach a given text 11 that's included in that text list that was an 12 appendix to the standards, they don't have to use 13 it. 14 The second piece is on the test itself, and 15 the passages that are selected. 16 There's a whole process in test development 17 around sensitivity and trying to avoid any evidence 18 of bias. 19 The challenge, as you know, is that, 20 particularly in a heated political climate, text can 21 easily be politicized. 22 So, there are some who would argue that an 23 excerpt, for example, from Huckleberry Finn is 24 perfectly appropriate because it's an important 25 piece of American literature that reflects its time. 1 There are other communities around the 2 country that have decided not to allow the teaching 3 of Huck Finn. 4 So anytime you are developing a test, you 5 have these judgments about the content that you 6 choose. 7 We have a process with New York State 8 educators of reviewing the items, to try and ensure 9 that there is not bias, but we also say, both in 10 describing the modules and the tests, that some 11 passages will address topics that will be 12 challenging. 13 You know, there are some states, for example, 14 and districts, that have had policies to not allow 15 mention of divorce, let's say, in a text. 16 You know, we feel like that's part of the 17 reality of American life, and so it may come up, and 18 it's -- in a particular text, the issue of divorce. 19 And that's sort of natural to the process of 20 having a breadth of texts used for the tests, or for 21 a given curriculum. 22 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you very much. 23 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Commissioner -- 24 Thank you, Senator O'Mara. 25 -- I'm going to try and ask questions that 1 would elicit yes and no responses, as best as 2 possible. 3 It is fair to say that New York State, in 4 essence, does not -- SED does not mandate 5 curriculum? 6 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: That is correct, we 7 do not mandate curriculum. 8 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay, so in light of some 9 of the comments that we've heard here, and in other 10 forums, there -- there is some concern about -- it 11 seems like there was some, almost a false 12 expectation, and it's not a criticism, but, the 13 state of New York, because of Race To The Top, 14 listening to Ken Wagner and some of the folks who 15 work with you, they were trying to help school 16 districts, and one of the things that came up was 17 the development of these modules. 18 I'm not sure I still totally understand it, 19 but I know there was talk about 250 modules. 20 There's only, like, 25 of them out. 21 And one of the criticisms is, that it's 22 well-intentioned, but not necessarily well-executed 23 in providing that guidance. 24 It seems like school districts kind of 25 waited, hung out a little bit, expecting that they 1 would get more from the Regents and SED, and that's 2 been one of problems that has exacerbated some of 3 the concerns. 4 Is that a fair assessment? 5 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: Yeah, I mean, I'd 6 say that the -- there are a lot of modules available 7 now, covering many grade levels in ELA and math, but 8 more to build, we add new modules almost every week 9 now, as -- again, as a resource for districts. 10 It's fair to say that some districts may have 11 waited on purchasing curriculum materials because 12 they wanted to use the modules. 13 On the other hand, it's important that people 14 don't see the Common Core as something that arrives, 15 you know, in a shiny box. Like, the Common Cores 16 arrive on your doorstep. 17 Even once you have the modules, the 18 Common Core is really about changing instruction and 19 changing teaching practice, and so districts didn't 20 have to wait for the modules to do the Common Core. 21 And, obviously, as you talk with districts 22 across these hearings, you'll hear from some 23 districts that didn't, and started right away to 24 implement the shifts in instruction in the 25 Common Core, and are using the modules selectively 1 as fits their local discretion. 2 SENATOR FLANAGAN: So separate, but related, 3 there's been a lot of talk about companies, like 4 Pearson, inBloom, and, sort of, vendors or 5 subcontractors of the State Education Department. 6 I have represented, when people talk to me 7 about this stuff, that, in essences, while they are 8 all aligned with the State Education Department, 9 that none of these tests, none of these issues, none 10 of these regulations, or whatever ultimately comes 11 out to schools and to the public, while they may be 12 a subcontractor, everything is signed off by 13 State Ed before it goes out the door. 14 So whether there's credit or blame, it rests 15 at, ostensibly, your doorstep? 16 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: Yes, and I have 17 received both. 18 [Laughter.] 19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Fair enough. 20 Going back to the questions, and particularly 21 what Senator O'Mara said, and I hope this is artful, 22 but, I'd suggest this: 23 I recognize the cost limitations. 24 I recognize why you're not going to necessarily 25 release every test. 1 However, it seems to me that if you're going 2 pick a number, 25 or 30 percent, that what you 3 should probably be doing, is taking the questions 4 that are the most problematic, and you would know 5 that, and the department would know that, better 6 than anybody, don't take the 25 percent of the 7 easiest questions where everyone does well; pick the 8 25 percent where everyone's kind of screwing up. 9 And if we're going to learn from that, it 10 would seem to me that's probably -- take that as a 11 subset, again, if the number's going to be 12 25 percent, and use that. 13 Do you do that now, or is that something 14 you're contemplating? 15 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: We tried to have a 16 range that was reflective of the test. 17 So the test has a range of difficulty across 18 the questions, and we tried in the sample to have a 19 range of difficulty. 20 And over time, that bank of sample items will 21 grow each year. 22 We had some that we put out before the test, 23 we had some that we put out after the test, and 24 we'll continue to grow that bank. 25 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. 1 And, finally, one of the things we all 2 endeavor to do is communicate with our constituents. 3 I believe that State Ed has done some very 4 laudable things, but I also believe that they're not 5 communicating as well with people in the field; and 6 in particular, I'd say in terms of educational 7 professionals. 8 Now, I know, based on information that's been 9 provided by the department to the public, that you 10 have a wealth of educators who are involved in the 11 process. 12 I don't think that's getting out there. 13 I don't think that's getting out there so 14 people understand. 15 And I've heard the number, there were 16 95 educators who were part of a team. 17 People say, Yeah, they may be 18 well-intentioned, but we don't really know who they 19 are, we don't know how they're directed, and are 20 they true, legitimate people who are, quote/unquote, 21 "in the classroom." 22 You don't need to comment. 23 I'd just very strongly and respectfully 24 suggest that, in terms of marketing, and letting 25 people know who is part of the overall team, and 1 even the subcommittees, that it would be extremely 2 important for parents, as much as anybody else, that 3 that information be put out time and time and time 4 again. 5 Mr. Vice Chancellor, thank you for your 6 service, and your time, and your patience. 7 ANTHONY S. BOTTAR, B.A., J.D.: Thank you, 8 Senator. 9 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And, Commissioner, really 10 appreciate your input. 11 COMMISSIONER JOHN KING: Thank you. 12 ANTHONY S. BOTTAR, B.A., J.D.: Thank you. 13 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Next is Mr. Rick Longhurst 14 from the PTA. 15 RICK LONGHURST: Senator Flanagan and members 16 of the Education Committee, I want to thank you for 17 this opportunity to speak with you. 18 We've shared our full testimony with your 19 office, including some backup material, and probably 20 500 pages of comments that we've received from 21 recent surveys. 22 The conclusion that we've drawn from much of 23 the work that we've done with our membership, is 24 that, while many of our members support the promise 25 of the Common Core, the extraneous issues that are 1 perceived as being linked to the Common Core 2 actually are beginning to threaten the parents' 3 support, and, potentially, the ultimate success of 4 the reform. 5 Just to give you some sense as to what we 6 see, and what we welcome, as the promises of the 7 Common Core, let me just offer a couple of comments 8 that seem to repeat themselves. 9 We welcome instruction that asks students to 10 not only learn important facts, but to be able to 11 apply them to everyday life; 12 We welcome instruction that seeks to leverage 13 pride that Americans have in their ability to think 14 independently and to exercise creativity; 15 We welcome shifts in instruction that help 16 our children to better compete with their 17 international counterparts; 18 And we welcome the increased rigor that 19 builds essential pre-college and career skills in 20 our children before they graduate from high school. 21 I have some notes in front of me because 22 I think I can be more succinct using the notes than 23 if I were just to speak off-the-cuff. 24 On the other hand, what our members perceive, 25 the extraneous issues, and many of these are 1 test-related, are inappropriately shifting 2 instruction away from the positive promises that 3 benefit the education of the whole child. 4 Negative perceptions can become reality. 5 Because that reality is linked to 6 Common Core-based reform, the result that we fear is 7 that support of the Common Core could be replaced 8 with opposition. 9 And what do we do about that? 10 Quite simply, we need to keep our eye on the 11 prize, and the prize is that support and the promise 12 from the Common Core. 13 We look at what the Education Department has 14 done over the past years, and we commend them for 15 the job that they have done in building technical 16 resources that are necessary to implement a positive 17 change; yet, successful implementation must also 18 include a strategy that builds family and community 19 commitment, and it's here that we see a gap. 20 For some parents, the benefit -- and I stress 21 the word "some" -- for some parents, the benefits of 22 the technical efforts are dismissed because they're 23 perceived as being linked to issues that are 24 perceived as negative. 25 For those parents, Common Core becomes 1 indistinguishable from these extraneous factors. 2 If "some" parents becomes many or most 3 parents, we fear that the entire reform effort could 4 be placed in jeopardy. 5 What have we done to encourage collective 6 support? 7 Over the past several months, New York State 8 PTAs worked closely with other members of the 9 Educational Conference Board to propose a five-point 10 plan that would move Common Core reform toward a 11 positive track. 12 And we strongly support that plan, and 13 I believe that others will speak to it. 14 New York State PTA is working with the 15 Education Department to schedule five town hall 16 meetings across the state to give parents an 17 opportunity to engage department staff with 18 essential questions and concerns about testing and 19 about the Common Core. 20 We have partnered with the New York State 21 United Teachers, to prepare a simple-language 22 brochure that educates parents in some of the basic 23 elements of the Common Core. 24 And, finally, we're educating, and we're 25 encouraging, our members to ask questions of school 1 staff and boards of education that can only be 2 answered through the observation of the 3 implementation process, so that they are provided 4 with feedback and forms, growth and understanding, 5 for, both, the educators in the schools, and also 6 for families. 7 In the end, we acknowledge that the process 8 of implementing reform will be difficult, but the 9 process really is simple. 10 We need to be in the business of developing 11 people: educators, families, and students; not just 12 skilled test takers. 13 Does this mean we oppose testing? Absolutely 14 not. 15 We need tests to measure what our students 16 learn, and as one aspect of supporting our efforts 17 to improve learning. 18 We cannot, however, allow the perception that 19 we are obsessed with only one part of our 20 accountability system, to take our eye off the prize 21 by threatening, not only good what is good, but also 22 essential to our children's future. 23 24 25 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you very much. 2 I do appreciate it, and we, obviously, have 3 your written testimony. 4 The EngageNY website -- 5 RICK LONGHURST: Yes. 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: -- you talk about 7 technologies, and advances in technology. 8 I think this is probably characteristic of 9 life, generally, professionally and personally, 10 that, you know, sometimes people need to keep 11 hearing things or seeing them before they get a 12 level of comfort. 13 Certainly, the communities that I represent, 14 there seems to be more consternation, and there's 15 more talk about things like, opting out, which 16 I don't necessarily think is a prudent exercise. 17 RICK LONGHURST: Nor do we. 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: So how do you deal with 19 parents in that regard? 20 And there's been a lot of talk, you know, we 21 need -- someone said that there are no parents 22 testifying today. 23 I'm fairly sure that you're a parent -- 24 RICK LONGHURST: I am a parent. 25 SENATOR FLANAGAN: -- and I'm fairly sure 1 that "PTA" stands for Parent-Teacher Association. 2 RICK LONGHURST: Yes. 3 SENATOR FLANAGAN: So, what are you doing, 4 sort of, at the field level? 5 And I just said to Senator Valesky, those 6 five town hall meetings, if you pull them off, those 7 would be quite interesting in and of themselves. 8 What are you doing at the street level to, 9 not only hear what your parents are saying, but, 10 sort of, taking that and reporting back to people 11 like us? 12 RICK LONGHURST: We have a website. 13 We have a blog. 14 We're on Facebook. 15 We're on Twitter. 16 We communicate regularly with the, roughly, 17 2,000 PTA units and councils throughout 18 New York State, to provide them with encouragement 19 that says that they must be partners in this whole 20 process. 21 We're seeking to work with parents and with 22 schools to provide a welcoming environment for 23 parents, to share the responsibility with schools 24 for the development of their children, but I think, 25 in the end, recognizing that reform is not just a 1 technical or content-based effort. 2 It represents a change in the way that we 3 instruct our children, and that change needs to be 4 understood by our parents, by our schools, by our 5 communities. 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And one other question: 7 If you had the opportunity to, in essence, say to 8 the State Education Department, We have a lot of 9 concerns, here are our issues; but, if you were able 10 to tell them one thing to do in relation to these 11 issues, what would you suggest that they do? 12 RICK LONGHURST: Okay, and I've already said 13 this to a number of people in the department. 14 As I listened to the comments here this 15 morning, I hear a great deal about testing. 16 What I don't hear as much about is the 17 question: How do we know that schools are actually 18 implementing Common Core instruction? 19 And what I would say, is that the best way to 20 determine if Common Core instruction is actually 21 being implemented, is that our administrators and 22 our principals need to be in the classrooms and 23 observing what teachers are doing, and assuring that 24 the transition that is offering all this promise is 25 actually being implemented in the classroom. 1 And the results from that, we see as being a 2 necessary precursor to measuring results in terms of 3 student performance. 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: So, very quickly, on a 5 scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the most effective, if 6 you were to pick a number, your assessment, by your 7 organization, of where State Ed is in terms of what 8 you were just describing, what number would you 9 give? 10 RICK LONGHURST: Probably somewhere in the 11 middle. 12 Not -- we would give them high marks for the 13 technical work that they have done. 14 We would give them less high marks for their 15 success in communicating with parents, with 16 communities, with school districts, in spite of huge 17 investments that have been made in seeking to 18 promote those efforts. 19 It's a very big lift. 20 We can't underscore that enough. 21 SENATOR FLANAGAN: So is that a "5" or a "6"? 22 RICK LONGHURST: We'll say a "6." 23 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. 24 Senator Tkaczyk. 25 SENATOR TKACZYK: Just a quick question: You 1 mentioned the five town hall meetings? 2 RICK LONGHURST: Yes. 3 SENATOR TKACZYK: I'd love to know if you 4 have one in my area, or -- 5 RICK LONGHURST: We do. 6 SENATOR TKACZYK: -- if you could just share 7 with us, where they are and when you have them 8 planned. 9 RICK LONGHURST: I don't have that right in 10 front of me. 11 In your area, at the Shenendehowa High School 12 West on October 16th, which is a Wednesday. 13 SENATOR TKACZYK: Great, thank you. 14 RICK LONGHURST: There is a meeting -- a 15 town-hall meeting the day before that on 16 Long Island. 17 The first town-hall meeting is in the 18 Spackenkill High School on October 10th. 19 Then there's also one in New Hartford, and 20 one in the Buffalo area in Williamsville. 21 SENATOR TKACZYK: Thank you. 22 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. Longhurst -- oh, 23 I'm sorry. 24 Senator DeFrancisco. 25 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I just want to make a 1 comment. 2 I really want to thank you for helping the 3 communication process, because, I was on a school 4 board for 4 years, president for 1 year, about 5 35 years ago, and, the communication with parents is 6 extremely essential. 7 And it's -- your organization can either help 8 make or break this process, because once parents 9 feel comfortable in the process, it's going to move 10 in a positive direction. 11 So, thank you. 12 RICK LONGHURST: Thank you. 13 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you very much. 14 Next we have, addressing data privacy, we 15 have Aimee Rogstad Guidera, executive director of 16 Data Quality Campaign, and, I believe, Reg -- as 17 opposed to Reginal -- Reg Leichty from the 18 EducationCounsel. 19 Thank you very much for being here. 20 AIMEE ROGSTAD GUIDERA: Thank you so much, 21 Chairman Flanagan and other distinguished Senators. 22 I'm Aimee Guidera. I'm the executive 23 director of the Data Quality Campaign, and I run an 24 organization this is a non-profit advocacy 25 organization that is trying to change the culture 1 and the conversation about using data in education. 2 I am a passionate proponent of using data to 3 improve student achievement in New York, and in 4 every state in this country, and for that reason, 5 I am so pleased and honored to be here today. 6 So, thank you for having this hearing. 7 In my short seven minutes I have with you, 8 I'd like to really hone in on three key points. 9 The first is, that New York cannot afford not 10 to use information more effectively if you want to 11 reach the goal that the Commissioner just talked 12 about, and which all of you have mentioned and 13 endorsed, which is, ensuring that every single 14 New York child graduates from high school ready for 15 the knowledge economy. 16 We won't get there, we won't be able to make 17 the decisions about how do we invest scarce 18 resources and what works, we won't be able to 19 personalize learning and to tailor instruction to 20 every New York child, unless we change how we use 21 information. 22 Second of all, citizens of this state, and 23 across the nation, and especially parents, as we 24 just heard, are raising legitimate concerns about 25 how this data is being used, how it's being 1 collected, how it's being safeguarded. 2 We must do everything possible to build their 3 trust and their understanding in how this data is 4 being used to help their own kids. 5 This hearing is an important part of this 6 process at building an openness and a transparency 7 about this information, and more must be done. 8 And that leads to my third point: 9 As legislators and the state policymakers, 10 you are in the driver's seat of ensuring, not only 11 that the right data gets to the right people in the 12 right time, especially to parents and teachers, but 13 you're also in the driver's seat of ensuring that 14 this information is kept private, secure, and 15 confidential. 16 New York, like the rest of the nation, has 17 made unprecedented progress in building its 18 capacity, to not just collect information, but -- 19 and to use it. 20 This progress, which is documented in many of 21 the materials that I included in your packets, 22 really documents this change in culture that's 23 happening across the country, of changing using data 24 only for compliance purposes and bureaucratic 25 box-checking, to really this change of thinking 1 about using data for the really important process of 2 continuous improvement of making informed decisions. 3 And the true power of data comes, not when 4 it's collected and it's sitting in some fancy state 5 data warehouse, which is really important, but the 6 real power of data comes when we turn it into 7 actionable information, and we get it into the hands 8 of end-users; most importantly, students themselves, 9 parents, families, educators, school-board members, 10 and, yes, legislators, so each of those users can 11 make informed decisions. 12 Because, the dirty little secret in education 13 is, we've made decisions in education for a long 14 time, and we've made it on anecdote, we've made it 15 on hunch, and we've made it on what we did when we 16 were kids, or what feels right. 17 The bottom line is, now, and today, we don't 18 have to make those decisions without great 19 information, because we have that data, but we have 20 to have a culture change that allows people to trust 21 that this information's useful, that it's valuable, 22 and it's going to be protected. 23 With the education -- with the launch of the 24 education data portal here in New York, your state 25 will be on the cusp of ensuring that every single 1 student, educator, and parent in this state has 2 timely access to this information. 3 This is noteworthy, and New York is on the 4 cusp of being a leader in the country. 5 Only five states at this point have that 6 ability to communicate that information to every 7 student, parent, and teacher. 8 If we really want to get to the point of 9 every child, every student, every family, and every 10 parent having equal access to information, the State 11 role is critical in doing that. 12 Without is the State role, only those 13 districts are high -- that have high capacity or are 14 better resourced have the ability of communicating 15 that information with their families. 16 If our goal is to have every single child 17 prepared for the knowledge economy, then we have to 18 ensure that every educator and every family has 19 access to that information. 20 With this greater focus on education's vital 21 use in education, there is an increasing -- and a 22 need to also personalize learning, there's been an 23 increased attention on, How do we protect this data? 24 This is a legitimate and important 25 conversation that needs to be prioritized. 1 Building the trust of all citizens, but 2 especially that trust of parents, is critical to 3 ensure the effective use of data. 4 People won't use data that they don't find 5 valuable, and that they don't trust won't be used to 6 hurt them or hurt their kids. 7 What we need to do is, to make sure that the 8 public in general, and parents in particular, 9 understand what data is collected, for what purpose, 10 how it's being used, who has access to it, and how 11 it is being protected. 12 Hearings like this one provide a critical 13 step in this process of openness and transparency, 14 but much more needs to be done. 15 We need to continue to seek input, get 16 clarifications on facts, but the State has a 17 critical role in ensuring that this information's 18 protected. 19 As legislators, you are in a unique position 20 to lead this conversation about how we not only 21 ensure that data is used effectively, and that the 22 systems are in place to do that, but equally 23 important, that this data is protected. 24 For too long, the general sense was that 25 FERPA, the federal education privacy law, was enough 1 to protect data. 2 I'm telling you today, it is not enough. 3 FERPA is a floor to ensuring that data is 4 protected. 5 New York citizens, New York parents in 6 particular, must know that New York policymakers, 7 New York practitioners, are doing everything 8 possible to protect the data of New York students. 9 That's your role; you need to do that, and 10 build on the floor that FERPA provides. 11 There's now a growing list of exemplary state 12 laws across the country that are showing how 13 legislative leadership can really lead the 14 conversations on safeguarding data across the 15 country. 16 Rather than putting together a laundry list 17 of prohibitions that really don't solve anything, 18 but merely create implementation problems, and 19 oftentimes get in the way, we're seeing in states, 20 like Maryland and Oklahoma, examples of them playing 21 a constructive, productive role in laying out and 22 clarifying for the public, what data's collected, 23 how it's being protected, and building governance 24 structures that ensure that this data is part of a 25 conversation that is very transparent and open, and 1 that people understand who's in charge; who's making 2 the decisions about what vendors of access to this, 3 what are the privacy assurances that we have. 4 I've put links to both of those laws in the 5 materials that I sent you. 6 And I also want to draw your attention to a 7 piece that the Data Quality Campaign put out a 8 couple years ago, a policymaker roadmap for 9 protecting privacy, security, and confidentially 10 while supporting the use of data. 11 And in that, we really -- we hone in on the 12 best practices from other sectors, such as the 13 Generally Accepted Fair Information Practices, and 14 we've tried to then create a road map for 15 policymakers, like yourselves, of how we can apply 16 that to education, so that in the education sector, 17 we apply the best practices that are being used in 18 every sector across the world, to ensure that we 19 build trust and understanding about how data is 20 corrected -- uhm, collected and protected. 21 We each have a moral and legal responsibility 22 to respect the privacy and confidentiality of 23 students' personally identifiable information. 24 To do this, we must mitigate the risks of not 25 just the intentional, but also the unintentional 1 risks of misuse of data. 2 And, we also need to ensure the clarity of 3 roles and responsibilities around data collection, 4 access, sharing, and protections. 5 You as legislative leaders here in New York 6 are critical to making these steps a reality. 7 This is not an either/or proposition. 8 We must support the use of data, as we just 9 heard this morning, but we also must ensure that 10 we're protecting this data. 11 Before I turn the microphone over to Reg, who 12 can talk a lot more about the privacy pieces as a 13 lawyer, I want to leave you with one critical piece 14 as you think about the role of data in education. 15 Our tag line at DQC is, "How do we change the 16 culture from thinking about data as a hammer to 17 using it as a flashlight?" 18 And when you think about the conversation 19 that these hearings are really focusing on is about, 20 "How do we make sure, if our goal here in New York 21 is to get every New York kid ready for the knowledge 22 economy?" we need to have clear standards that are 23 based on the realities of today's economy and 24 tomorrow's economy. 25 We need to make sure everyone understands 1 those high standards. 2 Second of all, we need to provide progress 3 reports in a timely way to parents, to educators, to 4 taxpayers, to citizens, to lawmakers, on how well 5 individual kids and groups of kids are doing against 6 those standards. 7 And, lastly, and I would argue, as equally 8 important, is how do we make sure that we then are 9 guiding our decisions based on what the data tells 10 us; not just out of those test scores, but also out 11 of all the other data points that New York is able 12 to connect to a child? 13 I would argue that we will not meet our goal 14 of making sure that every child in New York 15 graduates from high school college- and career-ready 16 if we only pay attention to one or two of those legs 17 of the stool. 18 If we need to be -- if we're going to be 19 successful in our goal, we can't just pay attention 20 to the first two. 21 You can't just have great standards and great 22 tests if you don't use the information that comes 23 out of those tests to then change what you do and 24 guide your decision-making, whether it be as a 25 parent, whether it be as a teacher, whether it be as 1 a student, whether it be as a lawmaker. 2 We have to make a commitment to using that 3 data, and that is what is so important now. 4 We have to help change the conversation so 5 that data isn't the end of the conversation, but 6 it's the beginning of the conversation. 7 Yes, we need to keep working hard to protect 8 the privacy, security, and confidently of this data, 9 but what we really need to do, is to do that in this 10 larger context of ensuring that parents, students, 11 teachers, and policymakers in this state have the 12 information that they need to help ensure that every 13 child is on track for success. 14 We can't afford not to. 15 Thank you very much, and I'm happy to turn it 16 over to Reg, and then answer any questions. 17 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you. 18 And, Reg, if you can be brief, it would be 19 very helpful, your testimony is. 20 And I've never heard, "hammer and a 21 flashlight." 22 I've heard "shield and sword," and a lot of 23 other things, but "hammer and a flashlight," is a 24 new one. 25 So, Reg, please go ahead. 1 REGINAL J. LEICHTY, ESQ.: No, thank you. 2 Again, my name is Reg Leichty. I'm with 3 EducationCounsel. 4 We are a law-and-policy team that works 5 closely with not-for-profits like, Aimee's team at 6 the DQC, to promote education reform, and help 7 people understand how to protect student data. 8 And, quickly, just to echo Aimee's comments, 9 my testimony is going to focus primarily on the 10 federal law that primarily focuses on ensuring that 11 student data is protected. 12 It's called the "Family Educational Rights 13 and Privacy Act"; or, "FERPA." 14 You know, with the right state practices and 15 policies in place, innovative data use, like those 16 instances that Aimee talked about, can be really 17 effectively balanced with strong protections for 18 students. 19 And we think that the first step in ensuring 20 that you have great state policies in place to 21 protect student data is really having a firm 22 understanding of what FERPA does at the federal 23 level, so that you can effectively implement it and 24 build on it, as Aimee said, to ensure that your 25 students' data is protected to the best of your 1 ability. 2 So I just want to run through a few elements 3 of the law at the federal level, for your, kind of, 4 future consideration. 5 First, the purpose of FERPA is to limit the 6 disclosure of personally identifiable student data 7 by educational agencies and institutions in the 8 state. 9 It also provides parents a right to inspect 10 and challenge student records. 11 So, it's a two-part process, but the primary 12 focus of the law is really ensuring that there's a 13 floor in place to ensure that privacy protections 14 are being implemented by states and districts. 15 First off, the primary requirement that all 16 educational agencies in your state, including your 17 institutions of higher education that receive 18 federal dollars from the U.S. Department of 19 Education, is to not share any personally 20 identifiable information, except for a few limited 21 exceptions that I'm going to run through. 22 Non-personally identifiable information, this 23 aggregated data -- or, aggregated data, data that's 24 been anonymized, that's been de-identified, can be 25 shared without limit, that's okay. 1 But when it comes to personally identifiable 2 data, you want to have a strong strategy in place to 3 ensure that it's only being used in appropriate 4 purposes. 5 There are a few educational and public-safety 6 and health exceptions that allow personally 7 identifiable data to be shared. 8 For example: 9 Data can be shared to evaluate federal, 10 state, and local educational programs; 11 Personally identifiable data can be shared to 12 support studies that are designed to improve 13 instruction; 14 Data can be shared to deliver educational 15 services by a district or school; 16 And it can also be shared in situations -- 17 emergency situations where it's important to 18 protecting the health and safety of a student or 19 other students in a school. 20 The Departments of Education's regulations, 21 though, very carefully balanced those sharing 22 exceptions with a number of privacy protections that 23 are focused on ensuring that, whenever sharing 24 occurs, it's only used for an authorized purpose. 25 They have to put procedures and processes in 1 place to ensure that the data is not further 2 disclosed for an unauthorized purpose. 3 And, when the data's no longer used, it has 4 to be destroyed. 5 Lastly, there are some penalties in place to 6 ensure that these rules are followed, and two key 7 ones are, first of all, the educational agency in 8 the state or state institution of higher education 9 could lose access to the U.S. Department of 10 Education funding if the department finds that it 11 has violated FERPA; 12 And outside entities that have access to 13 personally identifiable information under one of 14 those allowable exceptions can be debarred from 15 having future access to data for no less than 16 five years. 17 So, the penalties are very strict. 18 And, lastly, in conclusion, before we turn to 19 questions, I just want to make a few, sort of, 20 recommendations for you to think about as you're 21 considering state policies to build on FERPA. 22 First, ensuring that you are strategically 23 and coherently developing a plan for implementing 24 the federal requirements around privacy and 25 confidently. 1 And that includes establishing appropriate 2 roles for data stewardship, and defining and clearly 3 communicating, which has been a big theme today, to 4 stakeholder groups, including educators and 5 school leaders and parents and the public about the 6 need to protect student data, but also the processes 7 that are in place to do that. 8 Second, ensuring that you've got 9 comprehensive policy documentation and public 10 transparency, and strong enforcement of the rules 11 you have. 12 And, third, and I think most importantly, 13 ensuring that there's strong organizational capacity 14 at the state, district, and school level to 15 implement these privacy protections. 16 Having great laws is important, having great 17 policies in place are important, but, you have to 18 communicate them to the stakeholders at each of 19 those levels of government that are responsible for 20 delivering them, and you have to empower them to be 21 successful in executing on them. And that includes 22 investing in the technology needed to protect the 23 data, on the security side. 24 So, lastly, I just would respectfully, you 25 know, urge the State to ensure that all of the 1 individuals and officials responsible for 2 implementing your privacy laws have those resources 3 at their disposal; 4 That they've taken the time to develop 5 comprehensive policies to implement FERPA and your 6 state requirements; 7 And then ensuring that they're communicating 8 effectively with people on the ground, in the 9 classroom, in the school, at the district level, 10 about these rules, and how to, actually, effectively 11 implement them. 12 Thank you. 13 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you very much. 14 Senator Tkaczyk. 15 SENATOR TKACZYK: Just a quick question: Do 16 you think we have, in the state, the laws in place 17 to protect privacy for students? 18 REGINAL J. LEICHTY, ESQ.: Yeah, so, I'm not 19 an expert in New York law. 20 FERPA has been in place for decades, and so 21 there is institutional policy and practice in place 22 in virtually every school district in the country, 23 that's designed to ensure that student-data privacy 24 and confidently are protected. 25 I think one important consideration that you 1 should evaluate, is ensuring that you're not 2 overreaching. 3 As Aimee said, ensuring that data is 4 available to stakeholders, to really make a 5 difference from kids, is hugely important. 6 And, too often, we overreach with privacy 7 protections. 8 So I think you need to harmonize and create a 9 balance between these two important public goals. 10 So, I'd urge you to really think about, What 11 are our policies in New York, and are they crafting 12 the right balance between appropriate sharing, and 13 ensuring that students and their families are 14 adequately? 15 AIMEE ROGSTAD GUIDERA: If I may add to that, 16 one of the pieces are, I think, technically, 17 probably, sure, you know, in compliance with FERPA. 18 We heard the Commissioner talk about that 19 today, that everything's in compliance with state 20 law and federal law. 21 But what we're finding in states, like 22 Oklahoma and Maryland and other states that are 23 taking up legislation, it's to create the 24 data-governance structure. 25 So the Oklahoma law -- which, again, I put 1 into the materials I sent you -- you can, literally, 2 see that they spell out and they test -- they 3 task -- the legislature and the law task the 4 State Board of Education with very specific things 5 to do: 6 That there's an annual announcement of every 7 data point that is collected on Oklahoma students; 8 That there is a governance policy that -- 9 that the stated -- all points, every year, needs to 10 review its privacy -- all privacy policies and 11 security policies, and post them publicly; 12 That every parent can go to -- that anyone 13 can to go a website and, literally, find the privacy 14 and security protocols on the Department of 15 Education website. 16 So there are very specific pieces. 17 And I think what has been the tenor of the 18 conversation thus far this morning, has been this 19 need to, you can have laws, you can have policies, 20 you can have standards, you can have tests, but if 21 nobody knows about them, and people have questions, 22 then you have a whole lot of problems. 23 And I think that that's the piece with the 24 privacy and security and confidently. 25 Our number one piece we say in here is, start 1 with communicating to people with why we're 2 collecting this data, and then help them understand 3 why it's critical; the "What's in it for me?" 4 And then to go to next piece, which is then, 5 And this is how it's being safeguarded and 6 shepherded so that it can be useful. 7 So I think there's always more you can do. 8 Protecting data, and, especially, as the 9 technology continues to change, our privacy policies 10 need to continue to keep up to speed with that. 11 And so this is -- we're never going to be 12 done protecting data. 13 It's not something we can legislate this year 14 and say, We're now done about it. 15 We need a process and a governance structure 16 in place that will keep up and continually find ways 17 to safeguard data, and always. 18 SENATOR TKACZYK: I have your testimony, but 19 I don't have your backup material, so if you 20 could -- 21 AIMEE ROGSTAD GUIDERA: I will get packets to 22 you. 23 And, also, in all the -- in the testimony, 24 the links are all live, so all the material's on the 25 website as well. 1 But, I'll get you hard copies. 2 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I have a couple of quick 3 ones, and I look at this through the prism of a 4 parent. 5 You know, my kids are out of elementary and 6 secondary education, but, it strikes me that there 7 are a couple of basic things. 8 One, the people who are critical of the 9 dissemination, or potential dissemination, of 10 student data, they seem to be focusing a lot more on 11 perspective, that now there's a lot more data being 12 collected, it's going through a central warehouse, 13 if you will, that warehouse being the State of 14 New York. 15 And I would -- if you have it, in it terms of 16 submitting it to us, it would be very helpful -- I'm 17 not aware of a series of egregious violations to 18 date. 19 It seems that there's much more concern about 20 where we go prospectively. 21 And I don't know if you've seen this stuff, 22 but there's a lot of stuff coming from parents now 23 saying: Why the heck do you need by kid's 24 disciplinary records? What does that have to do 25 with their education? 1 Is that record going to be now available to a 2 college or an employer who, because my kid was a 3 truant in third grade, now they're going to be 4 summarily dismissed from potential future 5 employment? 6 Do you -- is that something you focus on? 7 AIMEE ROGSTAD GUIDERA: Yes. 8 So in this document, like I -- your -- we -- 9 the Data Quality Campaign, every year, does an 10 annual survey. 11 We've done it now for nine years, and we do 12 an annual report every year, on every state. 13 So, literally, you can go to the 14 DataQualityCampaign.org website and find exactly 15 where New York is. 16 And I'll send you a state profile on that. 17 And it says exactly what data is being 18 collected and warehoused at the state agency. 19 The question about discipline records, and 20 things, again, in the Oklahoma legislation, the law, 21 right now, it spells out exactly how that 22 information will be dealt with, and what's part of a 23 permanent record versus what's not. 24 And, again, these are decisions that you as 25 legislators can lead in the conversation, and also 1 have the authority to task the Regents and the 2 Board of Regents to create those guidelines that can 3 assure the public at large with what is happening 4 with this data. What is -- rather than the miss 5 and -- misperceptions that are so now a part of 6 social media and conversations that we're hearing 7 about, is be very clear about what the current 8 status is. 9 And if people don't think that that's the 10 right process, "What's the process for changing 11 that?" and having a conversation about it. 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: On that point, if we have 13 legislation, I understand that, but, in your 14 opinion, right now, is the availability and the 15 access to the present state of data in New York, do 16 you believe that it is transparent, or not? 17 AIMEE ROGSTAD GUIDERA: I think it will be 18 much -- much better when the portal is live. 19 From my limited understanding of knowing 20 what's happening, as I said, this is the part that 21 every single state is struggling with. 22 It's the provision of, one, "What data -- how 23 do we share with parents and the public at large 24 what data is being collected?" and states are 25 struggling with that. 1 And this focus right now is very much getting 2 states to put that information up and be much more 3 transparent. 4 New York needs to do more on that. 5 The second piece, in terms of ensuring that 6 parents, teachers, educators, have data on specific 7 kids that they need to help make decisions on, 8 New York will be a leading state if this education 9 portal goes live and is implemented as planned. 10 As I said, this is this hardest piece. 11 It's not just collect -- it's not building 12 the data systems that collect the data; it's how do 13 you create the tools, the resources, the portals, to 14 get it into the hands of people when it's actionable 15 information. 16 And that part of it, that second part, 17 New York will be a leading state if this goes as 18 planned the next four months. 19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Reg, one last quick 20 question: 21 On the -- in your testimony, you speak to, if 22 there's a violation that -- through the federal 23 office, that you -- basically, you go to the guilty 24 party and give them a chance to correct. 25 And I may be oversimplifying, but it strikes 1 me that parents would be, like, Wait a second. 2 And as a legislator, I want to -- you know, 3 if you violate the law, you should be smacked. 4 It shouldn't be, like, Oh, I'm sorry, you 5 know, I disseminated all these social security 6 numbers. 7 Do you believe that sanctions at the federal 8 level are strong enough? 9 REGINAL J. LEICHTY, ESQ.: Yes. 10 So, let me answer the first question first, 11 because it's a good one. 12 So FERPA has, for many years, had these two 13 remedies: 14 The first is, withholding federal funds that 15 are provided through the Department of Education; 16 And the second is, debarring agencies, that 17 are not school districts or schools or institutions 18 of higher education, from having access to student 19 data for five years. 20 The law says, that before those penalties can 21 be levied on a violator, the Department of Education 22 has to give them a chance to voluntarily remediate. 23 And the purpose of that approach, is to 24 balance the important values of ensuring student 25 privacy with ensuring that there are federal 1 resources that are primarily dedicated to at-risk 2 kids in poor communities are still flowing. 3 So rather than smack them down in one fell 4 swoop with removal of greatly needed resources, the 5 department says, We're going to give a chance to 6 remediate. 7 There have not been, to my knowledge, major 8 problems with educational institutions and 9 educational agencies honoring their requirements 10 under FERPA, so that tells me that the requirements 11 are probably stiff enough. 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you very much. 13 Appreciate the time. 14 AIMEE ROGSTAD GUIDERA: Thank you. 15 Next we have the New York State 16 United Teachers. 17 We have Steve Allinger back, for the second 18 time, having come to Long Island; 19 And we're joined by Kevin Ahern, who is the 20 president of the Syracuse Teachers Association. 21 KEVIN AHERN: Good afternoon, Senators. 22 Senator Flanagan, I wanted to thank you for 23 providing us with this opportunity to be heard. 24 I have been fascinated by much of the 25 testimony coming out of Long Island, and what I've 1 heard so far today. 2 I do want to talk a little bit about -- today 3 I'll talk a little -- provide you with some context 4 about how the Reform Agenda is playing out in our 5 neck of the woods up here in Syracuse, and 6 specifically in the Syracuse City School District, 7 but I do -- I will also talk about the larger 8 context, and in talking with my colleagues 9 throughout the county and throughout the state, and 10 some of their impressions with what's going on. 11 I'm president of the Syracuse Teachers 12 Association. 13 We represent, here in Syracuse, 2500 people 14 who work with the students of Syracuse every day. 15 Over 1400 of them are actual classroom 16 teachers working with kids in classrooms every day. 17 In Syracuse, also, we are fortunate to have 18 an organization called "Say Yes" working here -- 19 We are partnered with them, the district is 20 partnered with them. 21 -- who has managed to bring together a 22 tremendous community-wide effort to really help our 23 kids in poverty. 24 We believe it's a strategy that needs to 25 continue and be supported throughout. 1 Say Yes has managed to create unprecedented 2 collaborations between the city government, the 3 county government, the universities, community-based 4 organizations, throughout Central New York. 5 Certainly, the school district and the teachers 6 association are involved. 7 And I will talk a little bit more about them 8 later, but we are -- we really believe that that is 9 a reform strategy here in Syracuse that is worth 10 hearing about. 11 Unfortunately, the efforts -- the things that 12 are happening now that we see with the Reform Agenda 13 threatens these efforts, and I will talk a little 14 bit more about that. 15 I was interested to see -- to read the 16 Long Island testimony. 17 And I think, you know, it was very consistent 18 throughout, and you had, again, a broad swath of 19 stakeholders who testified, and their thoughts 20 really echo pretty much what we hear up here, too. 21 I think the message is very clear coming out 22 of that, that the Regents Reform Agenda, as 23 currently implemented by State Education Department, 24 is not working, and, in fact, may be doing more harm 25 than good. 1 This agenda has really -- and I'm not going 2 to go through all the comparisons or similarities 3 that we're having here with folks down there. 4 Suffice it to say, we are struggling with 5 this agenda in many, many ways. 6 We're struggling with the implementation of 7 the Common Core, the lack of resources to support 8 that, the overreliance on testing, lack of adequate 9 resources again, demoralization and 10 de-professionalization of our members, our teachers. 11 It's all happening right here, right now. 12 The impact of this agenda has been 13 devastating here in Syracuse because we have an 14 already-struggling school district. 15 And this -- the mandate -- unfunded mandate 16 on top of unfunded mandate on top of unfunded 17 mandate, when you have a district that is already 18 struggling, it can send it into crisis, and we are 19 beginning to feel a sense of that now. 20 I want to talk about the demographics of this 21 school district, because they're important when we 22 talk about, What are we doing for kids, and how are 23 we helping kids be successful? 24 80 percent of our students in this school 25 district are eligible for free and reduced lunch. 1 50 percent of the children who live in 2 Syracuse, "50 percent," live below the federal 3 poverty line. 4 The implications of that are vast. 5 So when we talk about a school system, and 6 the success of a school system, we must look at the 7 children in context in that school system. 8 Since 2009, education funding cuts in this 9 district have caused us to reduce 25 percent of our 10 employees. 11 Hundreds of them are teaching assistants and 12 teachers working directly with kids every day. 13 With the student population of nearly 20,000 14 that has remained consistent over that time, the 15 amount of adults available to work with those kids 16 has dramatically increased. 17 So it's this context, a high-needs student 18 population and a chronic lack of funding to support 19 them, where the negative impacts of this 20 Reform Agenda are felt most acutely. 21 The flawed tests administered without 22 necessary curricular support, the Common Core test 23 last year, when you give those to kids who already 24 struggle with standardized tests, many of whom 25 struggle to get to school every day, that is not, as 1 somebody once said, ripping off the Band-Aid. 2 That is actually pouring salt on the wound. 3 It is demoralizing to those children. 4 It's demoralizing to those of us who work 5 with them every day. 6 Add to that, the challenge of developing and 7 implementing SLOs, or alternative measures of 8 growth, on a scale in a district where we have 9 1400 classroom teachers, a couple hundred 10 administrators, and 20,000 kids, the stress placed 11 on our internal systems here in the district is 12 tremendous. 13 It is at the breaking point, where, as all 14 the goodwill and all the good intentions of this 15 Reform Agenda can undermine -- can be undermined, 16 and our collective desire to help these kids and 17 improve outcomes for kids can be undermined, because 18 of the stress on the system that has been 19 unaccounted for financially. 20 In addition to this, there are punitive 21 measures that come with the Reform Agenda via the 22 Race To The Top. 23 Schools that don't perform well on tests get 24 punished in this environment. 25 We have an entire district that does not 1 perform particularly well on tests. 2 19 our schools in this district have been 3 identified -- 19 out of 32 have been identified as 4 what they call "focus schools." 5 That is another word for failing schools. 6 Those schools are required to go through 7 four turnaround models, and I won't list them all 8 for you, but I can tell you this, two of them are 9 simply not feasible in a district like this. 10 Another one, we have used up our allotment, 11 per Race To The Top. 12 We are now forced to use a model that 13 requires 50 percent of staff and the principal be 14 removed from that school, and then reconstituted 15 from there. 16 When the Commissioner talked about the 17 I-zone, the I-zone is something we worked on, with 18 the superintendent, to try to do some innovative 19 things within the context of these schools being 20 forced into a turnaround strategy that says you have 21 to remove 50 percent of the staff. 22 There is no science behind the "50 percent" 23 number. 24 This is an arbitrary number, completely made 25 up by people who don't work in education, or who 1 oversee education but are not educators. 2 There's no science behind 50 percent. 3 Why not 25 percent? 4 Why not 30 percent? 5 There's no science behind it. 6 It is the idea that a lot of activity will 7 somehow create achievement. 8 The communities that these schools exist in, 9 we have to do five of them -- we are doing five of 10 them -- we did five of them over the course of last 11 summer, and into the fall. 12 We moved hundreds of teachers throughout the 13 district in order to accommodate this. 14 We pulled teachers who had been in schools, 15 some of them for well over 20 years, had taught 16 generations of families, had relationships with many 17 of the children and parents in these neighborhoods. 18 Because of this, they were moved out of those 19 schools. 20 It's disruptive to a neighborhood. 21 It is disruptive to children, to parents. 22 It's certainly disruptive to the 23 professionals who work in those schools. 24 And I would also say this: It destabilizes, 25 to a certain extent, that community. 1 It is a very, very unfortunate set of 2 circumstances, when we are -- when we have 3 state-mandated disruption and destabilization. 4 I would also suggest this: When you look at 5 the demographics of these neighborhoods, and that we 6 have state-mandated disruption and unscientific 7 methods being forced upon us to, quote/unquote, 8 "reform that school," if that were happening in some 9 of the suburbs surrounding this area where the 10 demographics are significantly different, and the 11 people who live in those suburbs are middle-class or 12 upper middle-class, there is not a parent or a 13 legislator in this state representing those people 14 who would stand for this. 15 It happens in poor neighborhoods. 16 The focus schools throughout the state have 17 one thing in common: The kids are poor. They don't 18 have the resources. 19 So when I refer to Say Yes as a reform model, 20 Say Yes actually looks at the things that matter 21 most to the kids in the circumstances we find them 22 in here in Syracuse. They look at, you know, 23 providing the kinds of supports kids need. 24 Social, emotional supports; after-school 25 activities, more learning in the summer; those are 1 the kinds of things Say Yes and our school district 2 has been interested in since we first began that 3 journey with Say Yes, because we recognize, as urban 4 educators working in a poverty-stricken district, 5 the things that our kids need. 6 I grew up in these schools. I graduated from 7 Nottingham High School in 1976, and I'm a very proud 8 graduate of that school. 9 But I will tell you right now, the 10 demographics of this city, and the student 11 population, is significantly different than it was 12 in 1976. 13 "Significantly different." 14 So the outcomes for kids have changed 15 dramatically as a result. 16 None of the Reform Agenda really addresses 17 any of this. It doesn't address any of these kinds 18 of needs. 19 We talk about a need to go to the 20 Common Core, and, you know, I'm fine with the 21 Common Core. 22 I think most teachers are relatively 23 supportive of it. Some are very supportive; some 24 are less. 25 They're willing to do the work to do that. 1 That's instructional; it's important that we 2 provide the best instruction. 3 Teachers need support in that. 4 And we'll talk a little bit more about that. 5 But, there is no support, it seems, or nobody 6 seems to be really be listening, when we talk about, 7 there's this broad statement out there that our 8 schools are failing, that has been out there for a 9 long time. 10 And the Commissioner points out, you know, 11 the ready-for-college rate, and all of those kinds 12 of numbers. 13 All our schools aren't failing. 14 Kids in the suburbs, generally, are doing 15 fine. They're graduating over 90 percent of their 16 kids. They're doing well on state tests, and 17 they're going to the college of their choice, or the 18 college that their parents can afford. 19 The schools, if you did an overlay of 20 education achievement, by whatever standard the 21 state has, take that map and lay it over, the 22 pockets where kids aren't doing well are in ZIP 23 codes where poverty exists. 24 None of this Reform Agenda addresses that in 25 any meaningful way. 1 As we talk about the State's rolling this 2 out, and their support, it's not just our district 3 where we haven't felt terribly supported. 4 Virtually, all my colleagues I talk to about 5 the implementation of all this feels that State Ed 6 has missed the opportunity to do this the right way. 7 And it could be a tragic misfire, because it 8 will create, and has created, a problem of 9 credibility for state -- New York State education. 10 Under-resourcing, and over-mandating, and not 11 giving the appropriate amount of time, has led to a 12 lot of doubters. 13 Teachers feel that this evaluation system is 14 really only about putting them in one of four 15 categories, and sorting them out. 16 Parents are feeling that the testing is 17 obsessive and it's bad for kids. 18 So when that's happening, the credibility of 19 the entire system is brought into question. 20 And, again, good intentions, we understand 21 that. 22 You'll never hear a teacher stand up and say, 23 I don't want to be evaluated. 24 You'll never hear a teacher, not this teacher 25 or teacher leader, ever stand up and say, The system 1 as it existed before was something that we should 2 hold up as exemplary. 3 It wasn't. 4 There are -- there's a framework in -- that 5 we can work within in the new evaluation system that 6 has some real promise, that can actually do the 7 things for teachers to improve their practice that 8 it should. 9 We're not dismissing it. 10 The same is true for the need for testing. 11 Teachers test all the time. They use 12 assessments all the time. 13 But the obsession with testing, connecting it 14 with kids and teachers in a high-stakes way, and 15 school districts in a high-stakes way, has gone too 16 far, and too fast. 17 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Kevin, can I ask you to 18 kind of wrap up -- 19 KEVIN AHERN: Yes. 20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: -- because I know my 21 colleagues have questions. 22 KEVIN AHERN: Yes, absolutely. 23 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you. 24 KEVIN AHERN: And, again, I don't mean to 25 prattle on. 1 I do -- I do want to, you know, get to the 2 ask here, so, if you'll let me do that. 3 I would urge you to join teachers and parents 4 and call for best practices in measuring student 5 achievement. 6 That means ensuring our youngest students are 7 not forced to take tests that are developmentally 8 inappropriate. 9 That means requiring transparency and the 10 State's use of standardized test. 11 I ask you for the time, for students and 12 teachers need to gradually implement the new 13 learning standards in order to get it right. 14 That should include postponing the 15 implementation of the Common Core Regents' exams as 16 a graduation requirement. 17 It should include a three-year moratorium on 18 the high-stakes aspect of the consequences for 19 students and teacher who are doing everything 20 possible to keep up with this work, despite great 21 odds working against them. 22 I urge you to provide the full resources 23 districts need to ensure all students have an equal 24 opportunity to master the state's new learning 25 standards. Our students' challenges are only 1 worsened by the State's hyper-focus on testing 2 instead of the supports and services they need. 3 Finally, students living in poverty need 4 State-sponsored support, not State-sponsored 5 disruption. They need safety nets, not sanctions. 6 The Reform Agenda should be supporting the 7 development of state-of-the-art community schools 8 and efforts by organizations, like Say Yes, that not 9 only provide scholarships, but also create 10 unprecedented collaborations between stakeholders, 11 to bring the resources to our kids, and their 12 families. 13 If New York is really interested in providing 14 every student with a first-class public education, 15 and the fundamental issue of poverty, access, 16 equity, and opportunity must be seriously addressed. 17 Thank you for listening. 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Kevin, thank you very 19 much. 20 I know that's consistent with what we had 21 heard from Nadia, your colleague on Long Island, 22 from Middle Country. 23 But, I believe Senator DeFrancisco has a 24 question. 25 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, the -- I was 1 listening to your asks just now, and I reread them. 2 None of the asks was to get rid of the 3 concept of the Core curriculum, get rid of the 4 reforms. It's, basically, postponing the 5 effectiveness. 6 Is that fair to say? 7 KEVIN AHERN: Yes. 8 I think, we're not asking to get rid of the 9 Common Core. 10 We're asking for a sensible, timely rollout 11 with the appropriate resources. 12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Okay. 13 Now, with the appropriate resources, you 14 mentioned that there was less and less State aid, 15 especially for students in schools that have a high 16 level of poverty; is that correct? 17 How much is enough? What's enough? 18 How much per pupil should the state be 19 providing that will solve this problem? 20 Because, the resources seem to be the main 21 issue, and they've been since I was on the school 22 board 36 years ago. 23 KEVIN AHERN: Well, there was a -- 24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Tell me, how much is 25 enough? 1 STEPHEN ALLINGER: Senator, there was a 2 process to develop estimation of what was required 3 for every child to have a sound basic education 4 provided in every school. 5 It was a costing-out study that was part of 6 the resolution of the Campaign for Fiscal Equity 7 lawsuit, and that was embedded in the foundation 8 formula that was overwhelmingly adopted by the 9 Legislature. 10 In the first two years, 2008, 2009, it was 11 implemented, generally, according to the plan, and 12 it resulted in real dollar investments in high-needs 13 schools, that made a difference for kids, and there 14 was an improvement in scores, and a closing of the 15 achievement gap. 16 But as the Great Recession took hold, that 17 was, first, frozen, and the gap elimination applied. 18 So I -- we would submit that you go back to a 19 full implementation of the foundation formula, based 20 on the best estimates that the State could get from 21 experts, and what is the foundation amount needed to 22 educate every child to high standards. 23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: My question is, what is 24 the amount? 25 I mean, do you remember from that decision? 1 STEPHEN ALLINGER: In those dollars, in 2007 2 dollars, that was about 7 billion. 3 There was a plan to reestimate, because 4 technology change, standards change, every several 5 years. 6 That plan was shelved, the promise not kept. 7 I can't give you an instant Cream-of-Wheat 8 answer, but I would be glad to have -- with some 9 time, get back to you with information on how to 10 estimate the sound and basic education full funding. 11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Do you have an estimate 12 as to whatever that "billion dollar" number -- 13 STEPHEN ALLINGER: We're several 14 billion dollars short of the plan. 15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Excuse me, I could 16 finish the question? 17 STEPHEN ALLINGER: Sorry. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: That -- whatever the 19 number of billion dollars, and how much we're short, 20 do you have an estimate as to the dollars per child 21 in the school district that's high poverty? 22 STEPHEN ALLINGER: It's a few thousand short, 23 but we will -- rather than just doing it off the top 24 of my head, I will get that information to you. 25 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, I asked for this 1 number, because I don't remember the number, but -- 2 and there has been a very difficult financial time. 3 But just so that people here know, as far as 4 the Syracuse School District is concerned, the State 5 aid; not federal aid, State aid alone, for 6 2011-2012, was $12,264 per child. 7 The following term, following year, 12,986. 8 And this past year, 13,293. 9 Now, I know that the numbers were going up 10 during the implementation of that increase in 11 foundation aid, but not that dramatically. 12 So, I don't think -- what I'm getting at, 13 I don't think money is the only issue here. 14 And, Kevin, you had mentioned many other 15 issues, poverty level, and the like. 16 And one of the things I'd like to hear from 17 the teachers, because this is a concern of mine, 18 that, in some districts, and I've heard many parents 19 in the Syracuse School District -- there was just a 20 report in today's paper, I think -- that there's 21 disruptions in the classroom that makes it very 22 difficult for teachers to teach. 23 And, apparently, what's occurred recently, is 24 the report today said that it's too racially biased, 25 or whatever it may be. 1 Well, whoever's doing it, is there a solution 2 to make the job of teachers better, so that students 3 who want to learn can learn? 4 You know, what's the solution, if you can't 5 suspend someone and get the disrupters out of the 6 classroom? 7 What do the teachers want with respect to 8 that issue? 9 KEVIN AHERN: Teachers want to be able to 10 teach. 11 Right? 12 So, I think there's a couple of issues here. 13 One, as I noted earlier in my testimony, we 14 have eliminated 25 percent of the staff of this 15 school district. Those are adults who supervise 16 kids all day. 17 So as a consequence, you know, and I don't 18 have any scientific research on this, but common 19 sense would tell us all, there are less adults 20 supervising the same amount of kids in the same 21 buildings, so, that can lead to lots of issues. 22 Right? 23 So I think that's one significant factor. 24 Another -- I do think this is an important 25 issue, and it's certainly not for a huge discussion 1 here, but I think it's a community-wide issue, and 2 I think it needs to be -- I think we need to find 3 solutions within the community. 4 And by "the community," I mean parents, 5 teachers, lawmakers...I think everybody needs to 6 address this issue of safety in the schools. 7 And I think last night's discussion of 8 suspension rates is an interesting topic, and an 9 alarming number, but I think the solution will be 10 much more complicated than simply looking at those. 11 And to your earlier point, Senator, about the 12 finances, and all of that, I don't have chapter and 13 verse on those numbers, but, as you know, budget 14 season approaches. 15 We will bring a delegation in, and I can 16 guarantee you -- I know that Suzanne Slack, CFO for 17 the school district, can give you chapter and verse 18 on the impact of the lack of CFE funding. 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: One last issue, because 20 I don't want to monopolize it, but one last issue -- 21 And I'd like to get together with you on the 22 disruptions in the classroom. 23 KEVIN AHERN: Absolutely. 24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: -- because I don't see 25 how any teacher -- my wife was a teacher -- how you 1 can possibly teach in a classroom without getting 2 rid of the kids who don't want to learn, somehow. 3 Whether it's putting them in a separate 4 classroom and teaching them with less teachers, or 5 whatever. 6 But -- because you can't prevent those who 7 want to learn, learn; and teachers who want to 8 teach, teach, in an atmosphere they can teach. 9 Lastly, Say Yes, and I was involved at the 10 beginning of that, I learned something that just 11 totally shocked me, and I want to get your opinion 12 on this; and that is -- because I was going into 13 this remediation issue, and the hundreds of millions 14 of dollars that are spent by kids using their 15 money -- their tuition money for remediation, for 16 colleges paying dollars upon -- millions of dollars 17 on remediation, because kids aren't ready for 18 college. 19 Now, it's a wonderful concept, in my 20 judgment, that if a kid in poverty has the incentive 21 of a pre-college education -- 22 And by the way, the suburban districts don't 23 get this. It's only the city of Syracuse, so there 24 are things that go to the poverty districts. 25 -- but, I was shocked to learn that all a 1 student needed to get a free college education under 2 the Say Yes program, was to get a city 3 school-district diploma. 4 They don't have to be ready for college. 5 KEVIN AHERN: Well -- 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Now, let me just, last 7 point. 8 KEVIN AHERN: Go ahead. 9 Sure. 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: It seems to me, whether 11 you're in poverty or not, and if a parent knows that 12 their kid has got to be college-ready to get that 13 education, there ought to be some parental support 14 to make sure the kid is ready; not just getting a 15 piece of paper pushed on to learn how to read more 16 proficiently in college. 17 You know, what -- is there something, a 18 disconnect there, or am I wrong? 19 KEVIN AHERN: Well, I -- I would say this: 20 There certainly are students who graduate, 21 and certainly will struggle as freshmen in college. 22 That is another one of the areas that Say Yes 23 actually does focus on. 24 They have a tremendous program, in 25 conjunction with the local community college, that 1 really brings kids up in the summer, prior to their 2 freshman year, to help them get ready for the work 3 they will do in their first semester. 4 And, all of this, Senator, focused on 5 retaining those kids once they're in college, and 6 getting them through to graduation, which is another 7 challenge. 8 So we -- you know, we've the challenge of 9 getting kids ready to graduate high school, and 10 actually graduating. 11 Then when they do, there's another challenge, 12 getting them to graduate. 13 When you have kids -- you mentioned, you 14 know, we do have kids who don't have strong parental 15 support at home. 16 So, Say Yes recognizes that, and is working 17 on that. 18 So, I think it's something useful that you 19 pointed out, but I do think Say Yes is working on 20 it. 21 But, you know, Say Yes needs -- school 22 districts like ours need Say Yeses, and they don't 23 all have them. 24 And the State needs to look at that model and 25 find ways to support that kind of interaction 1 between all the players. 2 You know, Senators, as well as anybody, 3 getting state and city governments to work together, 4 and to get things done for kids, and to eliminate 5 red tape, and various constituency issues, is a 6 really enormous challenge. 7 And Say Yes has managed to make that happen 8 here in Syracuse in a way that I think is 9 unprecedented throughout the state. 10 We're hoping to see similar cooperation in 11 Buffalo as Say Yes moves in there. 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Valesky. 13 SENATOR VALESKY: Just a follow-up. 14 And, first, Kevin, thank you for your 15 testimony. 16 KEVIN AHERN: My pleasure. 17 SENATOR VALESKY: I appreciate that very 18 much. 19 Steve, just a follow-up, I think one of the 20 points that you had made, and, particularly, since 21 I had raised the issue with the Commissioner and the 22 Vice Chancellor in regard to resources, you had 23 referred to the Campaign For Fiscal Equity court 24 case. 25 I just wanted to -- and I think it was 1 Senator Seward had mentioned earlier in this 2 hearing, I just wanted to again restate for the 3 record, that it was, in fact, the Senate Majority 4 Coalition, actually, not once, but twice this 5 session, both in the Senate, one-House budget, and 6 I think a standalone legislation at the end of the 7 regular session, as a reflection of the input from 8 school boards and superintendents and others in the 9 educational community, that an elimination of the 10 gap-elimination adjustment, from the legislative 11 perspective, was one of the most important and 12 effective things, this is what I have been told 13 repeatedly, that we could do as representatives of, 14 in my case, the city of Syracuse, and many other 15 districts, but all of us who are sitting here. 16 So, I guess, Steve, as we're, you know, very 17 soon preparing for the next budget cycle, and not to 18 speak for the Chairman or the leadership of the 19 Senate, but I would certainly anticipate that, from 20 a Senate perspective, we will continue to push that 21 issue. 22 And I guess my question, Steve, to you, is, 23 is I hope that you will be equally as aggressive 24 about the need to do that. 25 STEPHEN ALLINGER: I'll try to live up to 1 that expectation. 2 We are thankful that the Senate and the 3 Assembly exceeded the Governor's school-aid cap. 4 We believe the school-aid cap is sized 5 mechanically below what schools need to meet higher 6 standards; for teachers to teach to higher standards 7 and students to learn to them. 8 And, we believe that you'll need to do that 9 again, particularly in light of the fact that the 10 tax-cap calculation is coming down well below 11 2 percent, well below the current services-costs 12 increases due to inflation in that sector. 13 And, that if we're to be serious about 14 reaching these unprecedented high standards, which, 15 by the way, our -- NYSUT, NEA, AFT, have supported 16 the implementation of Common Core, but not the 17 obsession and premature testing. 18 But, we'll have to increase the amount of 19 resources. 20 We're working with the Education Conference 21 Board. 22 You know, we just came out with the joint 23 statement, with all the stakeholders, to have 24 meaningful investment, so we've the proper training, 25 sequencing, time, resources, technology. 1 And the reason we've called for pausing 2 high-stakes consequences, is we didn't get this -- 3 we don't have an appropriate baseline. 4 You don't have an appropriate baseline, we 5 have the cart before the horse. 6 When you have testing based on curriculum 7 that was not properly implemented, where entire 8 grade levels were not -- were absent, and there was 9 a promise to districts that these supports would be 10 in place, 45 other states are taking more measured 11 time to implement it. 12 Only one other state hurried it. 13 And, I want to support what President Ahern 14 said, you don't want to create a backlash around the 15 higher standards through poor implementations, and 16 that's why we want to get it right. 17 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Before I go to 18 Senator Tkaczyk, I would just -- Steve, I would add 19 that -- well, I don't need to be a cheerleader for 20 the Executive -- we were -- we certainly built 21 considerably on what the Governor proposed, but in 22 fairness, in his proposed executive budget, he 23 pierced the cap, as a good starting point. 24 STEPHEN ALLINGER: He did. 25 SENATOR FLANAGAN: So we were -- we were in a 1 better position, and we got to a much better 2 position in the end product. 3 So, Senator Tkaczyk. 4 SENATOR TKACZYK: I just have a quick 5 question for Steve. 6 It's my understanding, that we're funding 7 schools at the 2008/2009 funding level. 8 KEVIN AHERN: That's correct, or a little 9 below. 10 SENATOR TKACZYK: Thank you. 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Little. 12 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you. 13 I am on the Mandate Relief Council, and you 14 mentioned mandates. 15 Could you just briefly tell me what you 16 believe, for the teachers -- we've heard from school 17 superintendents and school boards -- what would be 18 your top two mandates that you believe are not 19 effective, or schools could do without? 20 KEVIN AHERN: Well, the mandate for 21 high stakes attached to these tests would be, 22 I think, the highest priority. 23 That they're -- and, you know, again, we're 24 asking for a moratorium on that. 25 I do want to make something clear, though, so 1 that all the Senators understand, and from our 2 perspective, at any rate. 3 When the State talks about, you know, only 4 20 percent of this is state tests, and all of that, 5 and that's fine, you know, that's true. 6 There's another 20 percent called, you know, 7 the "local measures of student achievement." 8 So, that's another 20 percent of the 9 100 percent, that is -- those are tests, also. 10 Those are assessments, also. 11 So when they talk about, you know, only 12 20 percent of this, it's not quite true. 13 It's 40 percent of a teacher's evaluation is 14 based on one form or assessment of another. 15 So when we get to this test obsession that we 16 talk about, from our perspective, those are tests 17 that have to be implemented also. 18 So we have the state tests, and SLOs for 19 teachers who do not teach subjects that have state 20 tests, as part -- as the 20 percent of that. 21 And then we have other measures of student 22 achievement that are more than likely going to be 23 some other form of assessment, or maybe another kind 24 of SLO, with a slightly different name. 25 So -- so in order to evaluate teachers, we 1 are testing kids at an unprecedented rate. 2 And the tests, some are for kids, so we can 3 see where the kids are at, but, they serve two 4 purposes: 5 One, is so we can see where the kid's at, and 6 another, allegedly, tells us where the teacher's at. 7 So we have 40 percent of our evaluation 8 system is testing to figure out where, supposedly, 9 teachers are at. 10 So, those are the high stakes we're talking 11 about for teachers and kids and school districts 12 that is a metric that's looked at. 13 SENATOR LITTLE: Just to address the first 14 one, but I believe that, in the very beginning, 15 40 percent of the tests were going to be -- of the 16 evaluation was going to come from the state test, 17 and it was through participation with NYSUT and 18 everyone else. 19 KEVIN AHERN: Absolutely. 20 SENATOR LITTLE: And I also heard the 21 Commissioner say today that there is flexibility in 22 that 20 percent testing. 23 And I think that maybe some of our schools 24 haven't really hooked into that; that they should be 25 asking for some flexibility, or doing something 1 differently. 2 But, do you have a second one as well? 3 And I'd really -- you know, if you don't have 4 it right now, I would love to get one from you 5 afterwards. 6 KEVIN AHERN: Well -- and, you know, I mean, 7 the thought of testing 5-year-olds I think is 8 another real issue. 9 SENATOR LITTLE: So the real primary-grade 10 testing, you believe, is too much? 11 KEVIN AHERN: Yeah. 12 STEPHEN ALLINGER: And it's developmentally 13 inappropriate. 14 Most national and international organizations 15 condemn that kind of testing -- 16 SENATOR LITTLE: Well, I, too -- 17 STEPHEN ALLINGER: -- for early grades. 18 SENATOR LITTLE: -- I am hearing from 19 families on that. 20 And I also believe the testing on the 21 specialized students is really difficult, and in 22 many cases, it's only telling them what they can't 23 do, which is -- well, but it's an area we're looking 24 at. 25 Let me know, all right -- 1 KEVIN AHERN: Yes, absolutely. 2 SENATOR LITTLE: -- if there's ever a time. 3 Because, we really don't hear from teachers 4 as to what some of the mandates are that we could do 5 without. 6 KEVIN AHERN: Yes. 7 Thank you. 8 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator DeFrancisco. 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: That second point, 10 I agree with you 100 percent, about young people, 11 and people with certain disabilities. 12 But, you've been decrying this whole process 13 of teacher evaluations. 14 Wasn't that part of -- weren't you involved 15 in the negotiations, the teachers? 16 And wasn't the ultimate result based upon the 17 discussions with the unions, as well as this 18 administration? 19 Didn't you participate? 20 KEVIN AHERN: Well, certainly, Senator, 21 NYSUT, on behalf of teachers, worked very closely 22 with the State to negotiate that document, 23 absolutely. 24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Thank you. 25 STEPHEN ALLINGER: That doesn't -- if I could 1 add, Senator, this gets to the heart of, and that's 2 not in that statute, the implementation of the 3 Common Core. 4 We certainly can implement it in a deliberate 5 fashion, where the necessary supports and training 6 and planning and sequencing is put in place. 7 And that's one of the heart of the matter 8 that we're concerned about. 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Are you saying that 10 you're comfortable with the evaluation system as 11 long as it's -- 12 STEPHEN ALLINGER: Not as it's been 13 implemented. 14 I think that there's a tremendous concern 15 about the implementation. 16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: In other words, it's 17 implemented too quickly? 18 STEPHEN ALLINGER: The rollout was -- it was 19 hurried. It was not sequenced properly. 20 And, we believe that some of the 21 interpretations of the law have increased the focus 22 on high-stakes testing, rather than multiple 23 measures, which was your first -- 24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: But that was part of 25 what you agreed to, the evaluation process, isn't 1 it? 2 STEPHEN ALLINGER: We agreed to having a 3 focus on multiple measures, and having it in place, 4 but not an obsession with standardized bubble tests. 5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Steve, can I go back to 6 something that you just mentioned, and since you 7 were at Long Island, you heard me say this: 8 For all the people that came to testify, 9 I had given everyone a homework assignment; and, in 10 a nutshell, it was to, basically, ask everyone what 11 their interpretation or their impression was of all 12 the kids -- or, excuse me, all the tests that a 13 child has to take. 14 If you take a snapshot in time, assuming 15 everything stays the same, K through 12 -- a kid 16 comes into kindergarten today, works his or her way 17 through twelfth grade -- what are all the tests that 18 a child has to take? 19 Now, in the past, NYSUT has provided more 20 detailed information than most. 21 But, I'm not aware -- 22 And, certainly, I make mistakes every day, 23 but -- and could stand to be corrected. 24 -- you're talking about testing of 25 5-year-olds. 1 I'm not aware of any state mandate that says 2 a 5-year-old has to be tested. 3 So if there -- can you explain to me what you 4 mean by that? 5 Because if that's the case, I -- to me, it 6 seems like that's a decision at the local level, by 7 the district, as opposed to State Ed. 8 STEPHEN ALLINGER: I believe that the focus 9 and overemphasis on high-stakes consequences for 10 districts, for kids, for teachers, has led to local 11 districts, and we don't agree with it, but feeling 12 under tremendous pressure to move down into younger 13 ages, acclimating young children to test-taking, 14 which often is very stressful and counterproductive, 15 and isn't very informative either. 16 That, if we had the right balance, in terms 17 of testing and other valid multiple measures, 18 informative assessments, in classroom work, that it 19 would lessen the pressure that districts sometimes 20 feel to do this kind of inappropriate early-grade 21 testing. 22 Moreover, we would like legislation passed, 23 that would not allow for that kind of 24 inappropriate -- developmentally inappropriate 25 testing before ages younger than grade 3. 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Right, and we have clearly 2 talked about this, but I'm not aware of any dictate 3 that comes from the Regents, or, in this case, 4 State Ed. 5 Certainly, there's testing legislation, that 6 there's a strict prohibition on K through 2. 7 And that's easy to understand, conceptually. 8 But, I'm just trying to wrap my head around 9 the idea, where does this come from? 10 If it's a decision at the local level -- 11 And we're going to have a couple of 12 superintendents who are coming up here, including 13 the superintendent of Syracuse. 14 -- I accept that, and I understand that. 15 But I'm just not aware of anything where the 16 State of New York is coming in and saying, You have 17 to do this testing in kindergarten or first grade. 18 Is that -- 19 STEPHEN ALLINGER: There's not an explicit 20 command in statute or reg to do that, but I think 21 that the emphasis -- overemphasis on high-stakes 22 consequences has led to that practice. 23 I think it should be corrected in statute, 24 and I think we should have a more balanced 25 implementation on multiple measures. 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Kevin, I'm just going to 2 differentiate with one of the things you said 3 before. And this is -- I'm being very clear, this 4 is my own opinion. 5 KEVIN AHERN: Sure. 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I believe, in the state of 7 New York, that we drive money to high-needs 8 districts right now. 9 There will be a debate today, tomorrow, there 10 were dates in the past, about how much, but on a 11 percentage basis, in this year's budget, 12 approximately 70 to 71 percent of all the new money 13 went to, quote/unquote, "high-needs districts," 14 including Syracuse. 15 I don't agree with your characterization, 16 that if there were some similar problem in the 17 suburban district, that legislators would not stand 18 for that. 19 I believe Senator DeFrancisco and 20 Senator Valesky, who happen to represent suburban 21 and urban districts, keep that in mind, as do all of 22 my colleagues, and we grapple with, just as you do, 23 How do you strike that appropriate balance? 24 So, I'm confident, as one legislator, that 25 I take a very hard look at the distribution of aid 1 and its equitability. 2 And there will always be some debate on that, 3 but I think we are striving to move in the right 4 direction. 5 And the more we can partner together, the 6 better off it is for everybody, including the kids 7 that we're talking about. 8 So, appreciate your time, Steve. 9 Appreciate you being here as well. 10 KEVIN AHERN: I appreciate it. 11 STEPHEN ALLINGER: Thank you. 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And next we have -- well, 13 funny I should have mentioned it, we have some 14 superintendents who are going to testify. 15 Corliss Kaiser from Fayetteville-Manlius, a 16 district that's been mentioned prominently at least 17 a couple of times today; 18 And, Diana Bowers, from the Hamilton Central 19 School District. 20 DIANA BOWERS: Hi, I'm Diana Bowers, the 21 superintendent of the Hamilton School District. 22 And, I'm actually going to probably say less 23 than I originally planned to, because a lot of what 24 has already been said, I was going to include in my 25 talk. 1 But, today I want to talk about three points. 2 The first would be, the -- two things the 3 Commissioner King spoke of: one is the change 4 process, and the other is flexibility. 5 Am I not speaking loudly enough? 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I just want to make sure 7 we have our... 8 I think you're fine. 9 DIANA BOWERS: Okay, thank you. 10 I can tell you that change is hard, and 11 I agree with everything that has been said here 12 today. 13 It is -- it's a very difficult process, and 14 the change process is going to be between now and 15 many years to come. 16 But if you look at change theorists, they 17 really talk about four different stages of change: 18 form, storm, norm, and reform. 19 And I can tell you that we are in -- we are 20 leaving the "form" stage, and we're about to head 21 into the "storm." 22 And, the change theorists also discuss ways 23 of modifying the level of the "storm," and I think 24 that's what we need to discuss today. 25 There's a lot of things that are happening 1 right now that people don't agree with, but if you 2 listen to the work of Heifetz and Linsky from 3 Harvard, if you can moderate the change and you can 4 moderate the speed of change, it can happen and it 5 can become systematic. 6 So that's the first thing. 7 The second is flexibility. 8 The flexibility that I'd like to discuss is 9 really with the modules. 10 We are given the opportunity to either decide 11 not to do the modules, or, to modify them to a 12 certain extent. 13 In Hamilton, we are modifying them. 14 But I can tell you that, in many cases, our 15 teachers feel the need to actually conduct the 16 entire module, because of fear, and they're not sure 17 where to go besides that. 18 So that's a second point. 19 The third, and the most important, are the 20 kids. 21 We are educating right now the class of 2026, 22 and if you think about the students that we have in 23 our charge, these are kids that are going to 24 experience a world like none other. 25 We can't even imagine what we're preparing 1 them for. 2 But one of the concerns that we do have, is 3 that we are preparing them in a way that may not 4 meet the needs of the twenty-first-century learner. 5 All of the needs, all of the things that we 6 need to prepare our students, are in the 7 Common Core, but they are getting lost by 8 assessment. 9 And, we need to think about the innovator, 10 the entrepreneur, the mover and the shaker, of the 11 twenty-first century, and prepare what we need to do 12 for them. 13 So those are my three points, and I'll give 14 it to Corliss. 15 CORLISS KAISER: Thank you. 16 And I'd like to say thank you for this 17 opportunity. 18 Good afternoon, Senator Flanagan and 19 Committee members. 20 We've had the pleasure of having both 21 Senator DeFrancisco and Senator Valesky visit our 22 school district. 23 Before I begin my comments, I would like to 24 note that we just heard from a very different 25 context in a school district, and the context within 1 which we work. 2 I had the pleasure of working in the 3 Syracuse City School Districts for four years. 4 I understand the needs of the district, and 5 I want to applaud the teachers in that district, the 6 parents and the students, for what it is they have 7 to accomplish. 8 I have five points that I would like to go 9 over. 10 The first, talking about rigor; 11 The second, talking about assessments; 12 The third, on our evaluation system; 13 The fourth, on the support that our teachers 14 and administrators need; 15 And the fifth, I didn't have here, but I'm 16 adding it, it's on data. That was such a compelling 17 discussion that was held. 18 As far as the rigor goes, the change around 19 Fayetteville-Manlius, we started to talk years ago 20 about the fact that, the United States, including 21 New York State, and all the states, isn't 22 necessarily keeping up with our competitors, our top 23 performers in the world. 24 And, so, we wanted to take a look at the 25 practices; so, what was happening in those 1 countries. 2 So along came the Common Core, and we said, 3 This is going to provide the rigor that we need. 4 Our teachers agreed with that. 5 And, three years ago, we began to develop 6 curriculum. 7 It's true, you've heard today, we're not 8 guide -- we're guided by the Common Core, but we 9 write our own curriculum, and, we spent quite a bit 10 of time doing what is called "curriculum mapping." 11 It is taking a look at those standards, 12 knowing the type of curriculum that we need, to make 13 sure that the students are successful. 14 The key to this, is the teachers are doing 15 that work, and they did an extraordinary job of 16 looking at that Common Core. 17 And, over time, they were both writing and 18 teaching. 19 It was a daunting task. 20 I dare say that we've a lot of very tired 21 teachers, but they did a fabulous job at that. 22 And, so, I would stress the fact that our 23 teachers need to be schooled in the ways to map that 24 curriculum, to make sure that our students are 25 getting the real benefit of the Core. 1 In addition to that, the Commissioner 2 mentioned, we have an initiative called "FM Rights." 3 We've decided that all classrooms, 4 "all classrooms," arts, music, physical education, 5 will have students involved in the writing process. 6 And we have done everything we can to develop 7 our teachers, to understand the writing process, and 8 to judge that process on a regular basis in our 9 classrooms. 10 So, we dove into the Common Core, we agree 11 with it. 12 It's a good start. We need to keep going 13 with the Common Core. 14 As far as assessments go, this past spring, 15 we had the first tests out that aligned to the 16 Common Core. 17 Our test scores did go down. 18 We told people they would. 19 But, it's something that we've to take a look 20 at as a long-range situation. 21 One of the things, again, looking at the 22 top-performing countries, something that I think 23 that we all need to do, they are not giving these 24 high-stakes tests to their students. 25 Instead, what they are doing, is using what 1 we call "formative assessment." 2 This is regular -- and I'm going to take the 3 word "testing" out of this -- it's regular 4 assessment, in a brief way, of where a student is 5 within the subject matter that they're working, so 6 that teachers have the information to be able to 7 work, step by step, with all children, so that they 8 can make those necessary adjustments; monitor and 9 adjust. 10 There have been a lot of questions about 11 this. You know, What do we do with these, the test 12 scores? What do we do with the questions from the 13 tests? Et cetera, et cetera. 14 It's got to be a little closer to home; it's 15 got to be closer to what the student is learning. 16 And, again, the top-performing countries are 17 taking a look at formative assessments, and they're 18 testing, perhaps, every three years; 19 Or, they're testing in a cluster approach; 20 meaning, at the end of K-4, the end of 5-8, and at 21 different benchmark times during the high school 22 years. 23 And they're also then taking a look at some 24 of the international assessments, such as PISA, or, 25 the program for international assessment, which kids 1 all over the world take, so that they can benchmark, 2 but not in as perhaps a frenzied way as we are doing 3 at this point. 4 So, I would suggest that, in a collaborative 5 way with the State Education Department, that we 6 take a look at -- 7 And don't throw the baby out with the bath 8 water. We've done a lot of work, and these tests 9 are here, we understand that. 10 -- but are there different ways in which we 11 can do this to cut down on the stress and the 12 frustration that we have? 13 Moving into the teacher evaluation -- teacher 14 and principal evaluation, that all happened at the 15 same time the Common Core is happening, the 16 high-stakes tests are happening. 17 And, unfortunately, I believe that it got put 18 into a context that was somewhat punitive, and tried 19 to bring out the incompetencies of our teachers. 20 I think Kevin stated, very accurately, our 21 teachers are doing a great job. 22 So when we put them in this context, they're 23 looking at their points. They're not looking at the 24 instruction that they need to be looking at. 25 And so I would only ask, that with the 1 evaluation system, that we allow for a positive 2 context, that we tell our public, that our teachers 3 are doing a great job, but there's a lot of 4 improvement needed. 5 Given the Common Core, given the testing 6 that's happening, put it in the right context, so 7 our teachers can breathe a little easier about this. 8 And that brings me to the 9 professional-development piece, and I'm going to go 10 back to the top-performing countries. 11 They spend a tremendous amount of time at the 12 higher-ed level, five, six years, making sure that 13 teachers come out and they are ready to hit the 14 classroom with all the experience that they need. 15 I think that we need to take a look at higher 16 education, and how our teacher are prepared, and 17 providing them with the amount of experience that 18 they need to hit the ground running in the 19 classroom. 20 Our kids need that; they need that. 21 They also provide for ongoing professional 22 development. Like, we don't -- we don't do enough 23 of it here. 24 And, I think we need to take a look at that. 25 We need to have time in our school schedules 1 for teachers to collaborate; to talk about what is 2 best for kids, and to share those practices. 3 And we don't in our schedules now really have 4 that kind of time. 5 But that's how their teachers are judged, on 6 how well they come together for the students that 7 they teach. 8 And I think we need to look at that system, 9 too. 10 Again, positive context. 11 And I'll end by talking about the data piece. 12 I think data is very, very important to what 13 we're doing. 14 The good thing we get from the standardized 15 tests are a lot of great data about our students, 16 and we're using it. 17 We're training each other to get that data. 18 The -- though, looking at that system, on the 19 whole, I think may be problematic. 20 We in Central New York, and I believe that 21 there are other BOCES and regional information 22 centers, who present presently have data dashboards, 23 who have all of the information that we need, to 24 analyze student progress. 25 To go to a much larger system, in my personal 1 view, is not necessary, and costly. 2 I would ask you to take a look at what we're 3 doing in our regional information centers, and 4 perhaps use that model throughout the state. 5 And, I hope that we can all continue to 6 collaborate, to move forward with the Common Core, 7 with assessment, with evaluation, and training of 8 our teachers. 9 DIANA BOWERS: And I would just like to add, 10 one of the things that I hope we don't do, and it 11 concerned me when I heard it today, and it's 12 concerned me when I've heard it back in my district, 13 it appears that, at times, we correlate the 14 Common Core with assessments. 15 And it is not assessments. 16 Assessments measure what the students have 17 learned by using the Common Core. 18 But, it has a wealth of information. It can 19 create wonderful experiences for our students to 20 learn in the classroom, and it can develop the 21 twenty-first-century skills they need to be 22 successful in life in the future. 23 We want to prepare our students for whatever 24 is coming at them. 25 And we are going to have to modify our plans, 1 year in and year out, because the change is 2 happening that quickly. 3 But, that's our responsibility. 4 It has to also be part of the Common Core. 5 We've to have the ability of modifying the 6 practices, on a regular basis, to meet the needs of 7 the kids from where they are. 8 And if you imagine what our graduates are 9 going to be like in the year 2026, or what they're 10 going to experience, it's going be far different 11 than what they experience today. 12 So part of the Common Core legacy will be the 13 graduates, and we have to make sure that the 14 graduates have whatever they need in order to be 15 successful in college and career. 16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you very much. 17 Senator Valesky. 18 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you both very much 19 for your testimony, and thank you for the job that 20 you do in both your districts. 21 Dr. Bowers, just one question for you, and 22 I ask the question, with the full realization that 23 this hearing is not about school governance. School 24 governance is not the point of this hearing. 25 However, that having been said, I think it's 1 important to note that, your district and a 2 neighboring district are in a merger process, as we 3 speak. 4 In fact, I think both boards of education 5 have advanced the notion to a straw vote, I think, 6 coming up in several weeks or so. 7 DIANA BOWERS: Correct. 8 SENATOR VALESKY: So, I've been -- as I've 9 listened to your testimony, I've wondering, so I'm 10 going ask you the question: To what degree has the 11 Regents Reform Agenda, which is the subject of this 12 hearing, been a factor, if at all, in the merger 13 study, and the decision to move forward, in the 14 first place, and that has led to the -- even the 15 straw vote? 16 DIANA BOWERS: Well, I can tell you that the 17 Regents Reform Agenda was something that we welcomed 18 with open arms, and we believe that there are a lot 19 of positive things that can come out of the work 20 that we're doing right now in our district and in 21 State Ed. 22 I can tell you it's going to add a complexity 23 to the potential merger that wouldn't exist before 24 it, because we're gonna -- not only will we have to 25 measure and level out contracts, but we're also 1 going to have to measure and level out pedagogy. 2 Right now, we are -- we are adapting, and not 3 adopting, the modules. And, I'm -- our counterparts 4 are approaching that somewhat differently. 5 The staff development that's required to make 6 sure that we're ready to produce the kind of 7 learners, and teachers, for that matter, that will 8 educate the kids in the potential new district, that 9 will be something that is probably one of the first 10 priorities if the new district is to form. 11 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you. 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Seward. 13 SENATOR SEWARD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 14 Very briefly, I was struck, I think 15 Dr. Bowers mentioned the fact that the -- that 16 these learning modules are not required to be the 17 guide in the classroom, in terms of covering the 18 material in the Common Core, but, out of fear, 19 you're finding that that's what a lot of teachers 20 are doing. 21 And then, your point is -- it was well-taken 22 in terms of, the Common Core and assessments should 23 be discussed separately. 24 There is not that connection, if I got your 25 point correctly. 1 DIANA BOWERS: Correct. 2 SENATOR SEWARD: But let's face it, as a 3 practical matter, the fact that, with the first 4 round of testing utilizing the new tests connected 5 to Common Core, our test scores went down, and 6 there's a lot of apprehension from among both 7 educators, parents, and school districts regarding 8 that. 9 So, my concern is, is that there is a 10 connection, or at least the perception of the 11 connection. 12 We've talked today, and I directed the 13 question to the Commissioner and the Vice Chancellor 14 earlier, and I'll do the same to you: 15 In terms of the flexibility, you both have 16 struck on that theme, that you -- the Common Core; 17 but, yet, you develop your own curriculum locally. 18 You feel you have the flexibility to do that. 19 But, is it possible to move away from these 20 learning modules and go that flexible route, to 21 allow teachers to teach the innovative in the 22 classroom, and still have the students succeed on 23 the assessment test? 24 DIANA BOWERS: Well, we, too, began -- 25 SENATOR SEWARD: The first round has not been 1 successful. 2 DIANA BOWERS: Right. We, too, began our 3 curriculum mapping a year ago, in the summertime; 4 and, so, we have aligned the work that we do in our 5 classrooms with the Common Core standards. 6 At this point, we are looking at making 7 modifications to the curriculum maps, so the 8 terminology that is found within the modules, the 9 exit outcomes that are found within the modules, 10 and, in some cases, the literature that is found 11 within the modules, is understood by our students. 12 The way that the test questions are written, 13 very often, they will use the terminology, and also 14 refer to certain texts or books that the kids have 15 either have or have not read, depending on whether 16 they are actually using the modules. 17 That's the part that's making our teachers 18 fearful, because they -- they're concerned that the 19 terminology that is used within our classrooms must 20 match the modules of the Common Core in order for 21 the students to be successful on the assessments. 22 CORLISS KAISER: I don't know that I would 23 agree that the first round hasn't been successful. 24 I know the test scores went down, but, as 25 Diana stated, change is messy. 1 There's no way that students were going to 2 score at the same level, with the type of testing, 3 with the complexity of the text. 4 By way of example, I took part of the 5 eighth-grade ELA, and as I read through the text, 6 and then I would look at the answers, nothing -- 7 really, you cannot find the right answer in the text 8 anymore. 9 You must infer. 10 This is a new skill, and this is a skill 11 brought about by the Common Core. 12 It's a skill that our students must have. 13 They must have higher-order thinking skills, 14 and perhaps the schools haven't done everything that 15 they can do. 16 So, what we will do, from now, our baseline, 17 which, certainly, all of us know that we need work 18 to do, we will begin working more and more with 19 those strategies and skills that the students need. 20 I guess what, you know, I thought about this 21 whole thing was, I was glad when it was finally 22 over. All of the anxiety and frustration, we were 23 working in fear of unknown. 24 And now we know; and now we know what we have 25 to do. 1 And within our own individual capacities, we 2 will work with our teachers and our students, and 3 our administrators, to better understand those 4 skills that our students need. 5 And I'd really like to look at it in that 6 way: What do we do from today, on? How do we move 7 forward with this? 8 And we all have some work to do, and some 9 moving forward to do. 10 And I think that's why we basically say, we 11 agree with the Common Core. This is something we 12 want our students to be able to master. 13 DIANA BOWERS: And as Corliss said, the -- 14 I'm not sure that we weren't successful as well. 15 And I think that there's a chicken-and-the-egg kind 16 of situation here; that, the outcomes of the test 17 matched the NAEP results, and they matched the 18 college- and career-ready results. 19 And I think that there was a purposeful 20 movement to realign the test scores with those 21 measurements so we could then align, and move 22 forward. 23 So, I think that there was -- we knew 24 three months in advance that they anticipated that 25 the scores would drop 30 points. This was before a 1 child ever sat to take a test; and, so, there was a 2 realization that there needed to be a realignment. 3 I'd also like to remind you that this 4 realignment happened two year after another 5 realignment occurred. 6 So we have gone through multiple changes 7 within cut scores, and the -- and they were 8 purposeful, and they were determined by the 9 State Education Department. 10 So, I'm not sure that our students did much 11 differently than they did the year before. I'm 12 hoping they actually did better. 13 But, the assessments didn't measure that. 14 SENATOR TKACZYK: I have a quick question. 15 Do you feel you have the resources you need, 16 moving forward, to implement the Common Core 17 standards at your schools? 18 DIANA BOWERS: Well, I -- 19 SENATOR TKACZYK: What would you identify as 20 the, you know, things that you need to make that 21 successful transition? 22 DIANA BOWERS: In Hamilton, I can tell you 23 that the resources we have, we've looked in other 24 places other than the traditional sources to get 25 them. 1 And, it doesn't just come from State aid. 2 We are a district that is the home of 3 Colgate University. We have support from our 4 counterparts there. 5 Grant writing, other things that are out 6 there, we need to go to sustain what we presently 7 have. 8 So, in the traditional funding methodologies, 9 the answer is no. 10 By thinking out of the box, the answer is 11 yes. 12 CORLISS KAISER: And I think what I would say 13 of Fayetteville-Manlius, is that we presently have 14 the resources. We've used them wisely. 15 Remember what the Commissioner said about, 16 Are we using those resources wisely? 17 We have decided that professional development 18 for teachers and administrators is key, and there 19 are many ways in which we're doing that. 20 Sometimes they cost; sometimes they don't. 21 But we are making sure that we leverage every 22 minute of the day for our teachers, administrators, 23 and students, to make sure that it is efficiently 24 and effectively used. 25 Could we do with less? No. 1 I think that we have been able to leverage 2 every dollar that we have in the best way, moving 3 forward. 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I have a couple quick 5 things, and I want to thank Diana. 6 I told you before, I got the phrase 7 "hammer and flashlight." 8 Now I have "form, storm, norm, and reform." 9 [Laughter.] 10 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Learning all kinds of good 11 stuff here. 12 Obviously, both of your districts are 13 extremely well-served by your leadership. 14 So, appreciate you being here. 15 I want go back to, Kevin Ahern is still here, 16 and we talked about this in kind of a broad sense: 17 If there's no direct mandate, is there some 18 sort of tacit understanding, or, subliminal 19 pressure, if you will, to start doing testing at 20 such an early age? 21 And in your respective districts, are you -- 22 you know, a kid comes in kindergarten, are you 23 saying, All right, is this kid going into science, 24 or math? Or are they going to have an aptitude for 25 the arts? 1 What are you doing at the local level to 2 address that? 3 And do you feel that the State is, you know, 4 like the sword of Damocles hanging over your head? 5 How's that for a loaded question? 6 [Laughter.] 7 CORLISS KAISER: It is. 8 And I'm going to say, every district is 9 different. 10 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes, certainly. 11 CORLISS KAISER: Every district has its own 12 approach. 13 Every district's students have individual 14 needs; and, so, they work within those needs. 15 At Fayetteville-Manlius, we work very hard 16 with the students to get the basics in kindergarten, 17 to make sure that they are meeting the Common Core 18 standards. 19 I wouldn't say that testing is something that 20 is central to that. 21 Again, I mentioned formative assessments. 22 Are we benchmarking along the way to see if 23 they're doing okay? Yes, we are. 24 And we use that term "benchmarking" quite a 25 bit. 1 For example, literacy is a big part of 2 kindergarten, and, the students are benchmarked, 3 but, they wouldn't know that they are getting a 4 high-stakes test. 5 All right? 6 It would be a prompt, and something would be 7 recorded. 8 So there are different ways in which you can 9 assess students' ability to handle what they're 10 given. 11 And, again, something that I really would 12 like to see the State look at is, maybe more 13 emphasis on this formative assessment. 14 It takes it away from the high stakes, and 15 gives the teacher and the student and parent room to 16 breathe, and learn. 17 DIANA BOWERS: And I agree. 18 We, too, use formative assessments, right 19 from -- actually, we start in pre-K. 20 We have pre-literacy strategies that we look 21 for, and the creation of those, and we begin to 22 benchmark as soon as our kids get into kindergarten, 23 until they ultimately benchmark out. And, at that 24 point, we feel that they have the literacy skills 25 necessary to move ahead into middle school and 1 high school. 2 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yeah, I sit as one of the 3 25 member on the Governor's Education Reform 4 Commission. There's been a lot of good work done 5 there. 6 And there was a reference made to -- Kevin 7 spoke to this -- Kevin Ahern spoke to this, about 8 Say Yes. 9 They've done a phenomenal job, and working 10 with those folks has been phenomenal. 11 But let me go back to, it's sort of an 12 educational-leadership question. 13 And I recognize it, very clearly, that each 14 district is different and unique. 15 And, certainly, there are differences between 16 your two districts. 17 But, how would you respond, particularly from 18 Fayetteville: 19 The Commissioner spoke about how you jumped 20 in. How your district was like, All right, it's 21 2009, we're getting ahead of the curve. We'll see 22 how it goes, but we're gonna -- we're going all in. 23 Correct me where you disagree. 24 A generalization saying, What the heck, if 25 you can do it; you went in, and you did all of these 1 things and you got ahead of the curve, and you dealt 2 with the bumps along the way, why can't everyone 3 else do it? 4 CORLISS KAISER: It's a cultural thing, 5 again, in districts. 6 Can it be done? Yeah, it was done. 7 Were we totally successful in getting every 8 child to be proficient? No. 9 But we were willing to, as I put in my 10 testimony, step up to the pump. 11 It was our feeling that the rigor coming down 12 with the adoption of the Common Core was what we 13 wanted for our students. 14 We discussed this with our parents, too. 15 And in some cases, our parents were, "Oh, 16 that's a bit much," but, we did some hand-holding 17 along the way. 18 We have what are called "curriculum nights," 19 so we're always putting this out to parents. We're 20 explaining why we're doing it. 21 And, again, it was tough this year, when some 22 kids who are generally proficient, weren't 23 proficient; but, again, we're reaching out to our 24 parents, we're asking them for their support. 25 So I think everybody has to take to heart 1 what it is that's in their culture, and how they 2 want to move forward with this. 3 And I believe that if everybody digs in, they 4 will make progress in this, probably at different 5 rates, but they will make progress, and they will 6 move forward. 7 DIANA BOWERS: And I'm sure the particulars 8 with FM is somewhat different than Hamilton, but 9 I can tell you that we actually started the staff 10 development that led to the success that we're 11 having with the Common Core, six to seven years 12 before it actually happened. 13 The terminology didn't even exist, but, we 14 knew what kind of instructional strategies we needed 15 to use for our kids so they could learn well. 16 Luckily, they do correlate with the 17 instructional strategies that are outlined in the 18 Common Core. 19 I do feel that some of our colleagues around 20 the state have not been afforded that, and may be 21 having difficulty figuring out what to do with the 22 instructional practices. 23 I would like to see that added into the plan 24 in the future, for the Common Core, that people 25 receive the type of staff development that's 1 directly aligned with what they're asking us to do. 2 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay, and if I may, one 3 last question: 4 Relative to the State Education Department, 5 and this is -- it's putting you on the spot, but, 6 I would say the single largest criticism that I've 7 heard, and I've done a lot of traveling, is not a 8 wholesale objection to Common Core; but, rather, to 9 the timing and the implementation, more than 10 anything else. 11 Correspondingly, there's a very strong 12 feeling in the field, if you will, at all levels -- 13 teachers, parents, administrators -- that State Ed 14 is just not -- not even contemplating, modifying 15 some of their steps, if you will, including the 16 Regents. 17 On a scale of 1-10, 10 being a really good 18 listener, what would each of you give State Ed for 19 their performance to date? 20 DIANA BOWERS: Well, I'll take the jump 21 first. 22 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. 23 DIANA BOWERS: I would give them a "3." 24 And I feel that the need to understand the 25 stressors that are out in the field right now is 1 mandatory for success. 2 It's not that they're -- they do listen, but 3 to a degree that matches what they're hoping to 4 accomplish. 5 I think that if they listened a little 6 harder, and understood the difficulties within the 7 school districts that are implementing the 8 Common Core, it would benefit everybody. 9 CORLISS KAISER: I would have to say that, in 10 the beginning of the process, I would agree with 11 Diana's "3." 12 I have able to sit with the Commissioner, 13 with NYSCSS, the executive committee. 14 So over the last couple of years, I have been 15 able to watch how the collaboration went from, 16 pretty much, "This is the way we're going to do it," 17 into one that is now more respectful of what we 18 bring to the table. 19 So, I'm going to inch that up to a "6," at 20 this point, to say that things are -- we are seeing 21 things change, and the collaboration is increasing. 22 And the rhetoric from the State Education 23 Department -- we just had a fall conference -- 24 I think is more in line with, What is it that we 25 have to do to help you change instruction, change 1 the things that need to be changed? 2 We need to keep going in this direction. 3 I think we need be listened to. 4 I brought up, you know, different ways of 5 testing. 6 And I would like to see, over time, that 7 we're listened to, and we can work collaboratively, 8 in order to get there, because I think there's just 9 a lot of avenues we can follow, and much more 10 opportunity for us. 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I see the superintendent 12 of Syracuse is sitting -- 13 [Technical difficulties.] 14 [A recess was taken.] 15 [The hearing proceeded, as follows:) 16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: -- a little more than 17 five minutes. 18 I apologize. 19 Our next panelist is, David Syracuse, who is 20 a science -- 21 Oh, Superintendent, you are -- David, first, 22 then you're next. 23 I apologize. 24 I think. 25 Yes. 1 SENATOR LITTLE: His name is Syracuse, that's 2 what's confusing. 3 SENATOR FLANAGAN: It's the excitement, you 4 want to get up here. Right? 5 DAVID SYRACUSE: It is an exciting place, it 6 looks like. 7 Are the other Senators going to be joining 8 us? 9 I'd rather not testify to half a panel, if 10 that's possible. 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: David, if you would like 12 to testify, you'll testify now. 13 DAVID SYRACUSE: That makes sense to me, 14 I guess. 15 Fair enough. 16 Well, thank you to -- 17 SENATOR TKACZYK: The light behind you, 18 that's shining right in my face, and I can't see 19 you. 20 So, adjust that light in the back. 21 DAVID SYRACUSE: I'm not that much to look 22 at. 23 UNKNOWN MALE SPEAKER: I concur. 24 [Laughter.] 25 DAVID SYRACUSE: Accuracy is appreciated by 1 scientists. 2 Well, at any rate, I am Dave Syracuse. 3 And thank you very much to Senator Seward who 4 got me into this meeting. 5 He's not here, unfortunately, at the moment, 6 but, hopefully, he'll be joining us shortly. 7 The novelty of a teacher testifying at an 8 education hearing hits me right here. 9 Are there any other teachers here, by any 10 chance? 11 Couple. 12 Excellent. 13 This is good. 14 Hopefully, I can provide a much-needed 15 perspective on this. 16 I've been listening to a few things, and kind 17 of been resisting the urge to call out, so a couple 18 of things that I'd like to point out before I get to 19 what I had to say. 20 These modules are suggestions, and they're 21 only suggestions, and teachers should think for 22 themselves. 23 You know what the Common Core says. 24 I know what all the shifts are. I'm a 25 science teacher, if you couldn't have guessed. 1 And, I know what the English-language-arts 2 Common Core says, I know what the math Common Core 3 says, because I'm going be responsible for lots of 4 it. There's lots of technical writing, and there's 5 lots of good stuff that science teachers can do in 6 all of these Common Core curricula. 7 So I know about it. 8 If there's modules that are suggestions and 9 you would like to use them, that's fine, but 10 teachers who are afraid of using modules, or they're 11 afraid of what they're going to -- would happen if 12 they don't use modules, it's no different than the 13 curriculum before. 14 You know what you have to teach. 15 If the module is the best way to do it, go 16 for it. 17 If it's not the best way to do it, be a 18 teacher. 19 I've got a master's degree, I can decide what 20 the best way is to teach my students. 21 So, the module thing was bugging me a bit. 22 In terms of testing and time, that is a 23 legitimate concern. 24 If we're going to expect more of our students 25 with the Common Core, which we absolutely should, 1 our students need to be pushed further; 2 all students. 3 And, clearly, there are lots of problems in 4 this respect. 5 Students with special needs, poverty, all 6 that kind of thing is important to take into 7 account, but the Common Core is, in general, a good 8 idea, but we can't expect more work to happen in 9 less time. 10 Last year, I had to take a week and a half 11 out for this SLO testing at the beginning of the 12 year, and then, all sorts of Regents exam testing 13 and other testing at the end of the year. 14 I was trying to squeeze in a lot more to a 15 lot less time, and that was just not helpful. 16 So, I don't know if extending the school year 17 is a possibility, I don't know if reducing the 18 amount of testing is a possibility, but, certainly, 19 you can't expect more achievement crammed into less 20 time. 21 And in terms of teaching, someone made the 22 comment that, Gosh, we have that distractions in the 23 classroom. 24 We can't remove students who are distracting, 25 because we have to educate all students. 1 We in public education have that charge. 2 We have "all" the students that we have to 3 educate. 4 And I don't want kids going out there who 5 don't know. 6 I'm the last science teacher they might ever 7 have. 8 I teach eleventh- and twelfth-grade science, 9 and that keeps me up at night. 10 It really does. 11 I don't want them going out there not knowing 12 about the science behind lots of scientific 13 concepts: genetic engineering, abortion, cloning. 14 I don't want them going into that voting 15 booth to vote for people like you, not having the 16 hard science to understand what exactly they're 17 voting on. 18 So, that's scary to me, that -- that we can't 19 have kids removed. 20 We've got to work with parents, we've got to 21 work with support staff, with principals. 22 We've got to lessen the load on principals 23 and vice principals, so they can actually do the 24 discipline we need, instead of doing the mountains 25 of paperwork required by the APPR. 1 It's going to take some work, but we can't 2 push kids to the sidelines. 3 So, that's really, really important. 4 In terms of listening, State Ed is doing more 5 than listening. 6 I'm on a listserv of teachers that share 7 ideas throughout the state, and it's really 8 productive. 9 If I need a particular worksheet, or, I say, 10 Hey, I'm teaching evolution, and I need something to 11 get at this particular aspect, I can put it out 12 there and, you know, 100 people will send me, Here's 13 what I do it. Here's -- 14 It's a great forum for discussion. 15 State Ed, their education department, has 16 people watching that listserv, just so we don't 17 misstep, just so we don't, I don't know what. 18 So I don't want to call it spying, because 19 that seems disingenuous, but, they are monitoring 20 the listserv, and that seems a little odd. 21 I know about this, because they sent me a 22 cease-and-desist letter as a result of something 23 I posted on that listserv. 24 [Laughter.] 25 DAVID SYRACUSE: Funny story I can tell you 1 later, if you'd like. 2 But, at any rate, down to what I'm here to 3 talk about, I'm really concerned about the private 4 meddling in public education. 5 Pearson's been mentioned a number of times. 6 They've got a 7 32-point-something-million-dollar contract over 8 5 years with the State of New York. 9 And what the Commissioner perhaps didn't say 10 before is, the company doesn't want to release more 11 test questions because they want to make a profit. 12 They want to make a profit. They're keeping 13 the test questions, so they don't have to work and 14 pay more people to develop more of them. 15 He gave a really nice explanation of all -- 16 and that's a fantastic idea of how to make a test, 17 and all the different types of questions on tests, 18 that's true. 19 But I have it -- I can't believe that Pearson 20 is just saying, Oh, we need to keep these for 21 pedagogical reasons. 22 They're a company. They're responsible to 23 their shareholders, and they need to turn a profit. 24 And, so, I think that's why they're keeping a 25 lot of their questions hidden. 1 Now, I have absolutely no way to prove that, 2 and I don't mean to be libelous or slanderous, but, 3 that just is a very interesting and rather cozy 4 situation that I thought that I'd bring up. 5 And, I'll go all the way back to the 6 Jeffersonian model of education that a lot of the 7 educators in this room are probably familiar with: 8 That, if you have an educated population, you've got 9 to have good schools to educate them. 10 So schools should be free, and you should 11 make sure that everyone has a chance, a shot, at a 12 good education. 13 Once you get that good education, you go and 14 you vote for people to take the country in the right 15 direction. 16 So, we voted for you, because we think you're 17 going to take the country, our state, our, you know, 18 whatever, in the right direction. 19 If any part of that breaks down, our country 20 ends up going the wrong way. 21 Or, if any part of it is driven towards 22 something that is not the will of the people, like 23 Pearson, or like another testing company, or 24 something like that, then our country is going in a 25 very different direction. 1 So, if we have people like Pearson, if we 2 have other test companies like that, designing 3 tests, and then teachers are trying to get their 4 students to do well on those tests, because the 5 teachers are going to be judged on the results of 6 those tests, well, is it really the people that 7 voted that are determining which direction education 8 goes? 9 I don't know if it is. 10 And that concerns me. 11 I'm a proponent of public education. 12 Mr. Webb [ph.], Mr. George Webb, he was 13 my high school biology teacher in ninth grade. 14 And ever since I had him, I said, You know 15 what? Wow, he is having an awful lot of fun doing 16 that. I mean, he's up there, and he's doing all 17 these cool labs, and he's got these cool 18 demonstrations, and there are animals all over the 19 room. I want to do that. 20 And I think I'm very unusual in the fact -- 21 probably unusual for many ways -- but I'm unusual in 22 the fact that, from ninth grade, I really knew 23 I wanted to be a teacher, and I wanted to teach 24 science, because I enjoy it, and I think it's 25 useful. And it's certainly necessary. 1 But when we've people who are not me, who are 2 not educators, who are not elected officials, who 3 are not teachers going to write Regents exams, 4 making policy, or making decisions, whether it be 5 de facto or de jure, or whatever, for our state, 6 that worries me, because, are we privatizing 7 education? 8 If we are, let's call it that, and let's have 9 an open discussion about it. 10 But, it really does worry me in that respect. 11 So private meddling in public education 12 really does worry me. 13 It also worries me that a lot of the Regents 14 who are elected by the Senate of New York don't have 15 a lot of education experience. 16 And I know that the Regents supervise a lot 17 of things. 18 They supervise, you know, museums, and 19 informal education, and all sorts of things like 20 that, but a lot of them don't seem to have much 21 experience in terms of education. 22 A lot of them might be hospital 23 administrators, they might be -- certainly, 24 leadership abilities is there in abundance, but, 25 I don't know if those are the people that I want 1 approving education curriculum. 2 Maybe it's just more of a rubber stamp if 3 they don't actually have the experience in 4 education. 5 And the final point that I would like to 6 make, and then give you some time for questions, is 7 evaluation. 8 I'm a "79." That means that my evaluation 9 score from my SLO was a 79 percent. 10 That puts me in the "effective" range. 11 I don't know if that means that 21 percent of 12 what I say is complete rot and you shouldn't pay 13 attention to it, but, I'm a "79." 14 That's what I am. 15 I don't care who knows that, because the 16 evaluation system that I went through, and I know 17 this is separate from the Common Core so I'm not 18 going to conflate the two, but did not improve my 19 teaching at all. 20 It did not enable me to implement the 21 Common Core in any meaningful way. 22 It didn't help me reach a child in anything 23 else. 24 If anything else, through any calculations, 25 I spent at least 24 hours of my life in staff 1 meetings and whatnot last year, completing SLO 2 paperwork, and all sorts of things like that -- 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Did you say 20 percent? 4 DAVID SYRACUSE: 24 hours. 5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Oh, all right. 6 DAVID SYRACUSE: My apologies. 7 -- which was time I certainly could have 8 spent collaborating, or doing anything else, other 9 than this silly paperwork. 10 So the question remains then: Don't complain 11 unless you have a solution. 12 Well, it seems that this high-stakes testing 13 that we've been talking about, and the 14 implementation of the Common Core, and all that kind 15 of thing, is driving us toward analyzing teachers, 16 and we should. 17 We should definitely evaluate teachers. 18 But, students are not products. 19 For the love of Darwin, they are not 20 products. 21 You can't send them down the assembly line. 22 If I am making televisions, and I am the best 23 antenna installer possible, every television that 24 goes down my line, the antenna is going to stay on 25 there, and it's gonna be stuck on there for the rest 1 of that television's life. 2 I have students who are selectively mute. 3 They don't talk or write because they are so 4 anxious about it. 5 I have two students this year who are 6 pregnant. 7 I have students who are in abject poverty. 8 One is homeless. 9 So I tried to call home, and I couldn't, 10 because there was no home to call to. 11 So evaluating me on how those students do, 12 doesn't exactly seem fair. 13 I am more than willing to be evaluated, 14 because you should know what kind of education your 15 students are getting; your children, whatever it 16 happens to be. 17 But basing it on these high-stakes tests, it 18 seems, just does not to make a lot of sense. 19 My suggestion is, since I've been 20 complaining, here's my suggestion: Have teachers 21 evaluate teachers. 22 Have a bunch of master teachers that you know 23 are what the State of New York thinks should be 24 great teachers, and have them go around and look at 25 other teachers. 1 Now, I am not certainly -- you know, it's 2 above my pay grade to figure out how to implement 3 this kind of thing. 4 There's my idea, though. 5 Principals have so much to do. 6 Vice principals have all this paperwork that 7 they're doing with the APPR and SLO and all these 8 Common Core things. 9 Why don't we have teachers who we know and 10 trust to be good at their jobs, evaluate how other 11 teachers are doing? 12 That seems to be like a good idea to me. 13 That's all I've got. 14 I really want to thank you for the 15 opportunity, and I'll certainly entertain any 16 questions you might have. 17 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Seward. 18 SENATOR SEWARD: Thank you, David, for coming 19 up today, and I'm delighted you're here. 20 My question is this: 21 In terms of, we're here to, you know, assess, 22 you know, where we are in terms of the 23 Regents Reform Agenda. 24 DAVID SYRACUSE: Uh-huh. 25 SENATOR SEWARD: And my question is: You 1 know, in terms of what you do in the classroom, as a 2 teacher -- 3 And as I say, I think you have carried on the 4 legacy of your biology teacher very, very well. 5 DAVID SYRACUSE: I hope so. 6 SENATOR SEWARD: I'm sure you're doing a lot 7 of cool things in front of the classroom, and I'm 8 sure there are a lot of animals around in the 9 classroom. 10 -- but, how has that changed with this -- 11 with the Regents Reform, and, in terms of what 12 you -- how you conduct yourselves -- yourself, in 13 terms of teaching? 14 And, also, do you see any measurable benefit 15 in terms of your students? 16 DAVID SYRACUSE: I'm sure there will be 17 measurable benefit down the line. 18 Right now, I see students who are focused, 19 who are really pushed into the ELA and math, because 20 that's what we've got in terms of the Common Core so 21 far, and then a lot of their other instruction is 22 lacking. 23 So I have students who don't understand basic 24 concepts, like density. 25 I have a student who reads at a third-grade 1 level, which is really tricky if we're trying to do 2 a science experiment that requires them to read the 3 directions. 4 So, I've seen a lot of changes. 5 And I've only been teaching for eight years, 6 I have to add that caveat, so I don't have a huge 7 sample size. 8 Let's be, you know, transparent here. 9 But it seems, over the years, that because of 10 the push toward ELA and math, that a lot of other 11 concepts have really been diminished, in terms of 12 what I've been getting when they get to eleventh and 13 twelfth grade. 14 SENATOR SEWARD: So in terms of what you do 15 in the classroom, though, how has your life changed? 16 DAVID SYRACUSE: I've had to back up and 17 teach a few things that might not have been taught, 18 either, because teachers think they need to use 19 modules and they're excluding certain things, not 20 specifically in science; 21 Or, because they're focusing -- the lower 22 grades and the primary grade, they're focusing so 23 much on ELA and math that they're missing out on a 24 lot of the basic science concepts. 25 I would expect anyone to know that density 1 equals mass over volume. 2 It's easy to figure out, but, when they 3 really haven't been, you know, pushed in that 4 direction, because they've been pushed in so many 5 other directions, it really does cause a problem. 6 And I think, if I had to pick a theme for the 7 couple of moments that I have, it would be, 8 unintended consequences. 9 Because, it's great to push kids to achieve 10 more, and we really, really should. 11 We really need to do that, but there are 12 unintended consequences of doing that. 13 And one of those might be, if we push them 14 toward ELA and math right now, well, science and 15 social studies might be heading down the drain. 16 The Regents are talking, tossing around a 17 proposal of making, you know, a CTE credit (career 18 and technical education) perhaps count for a 19 global-studies credit. 20 I don't know if that's such a good idea. 21 Should we make sure that people who are going 22 to become cosmetologists and culinary artists, and 23 things like that, do they -- does that really 24 replace the idea of, like, learning about all these 25 old civilizations and the history of the world? 1 I don't know. 2 So, whereas, yes, this Reform Agenda is a 3 good idea, because we need to have multiple paths to 4 graduation, because there are so many different 5 types of students and so many different types of 6 home lives. 7 Isn't there a common canon of knowledge that 8 we would want everyone walking around with in their 9 head? 10 I want people to know what happened in 11 history so they don't repeat it. 12 I want people to know a certain bit about 13 science, so that if their kid gets a fever, they 14 say, Oh, the kid's really hot. I'll dunk him in 15 cold water. 16 And I've had students tell me that before. 17 I've had students ask me, during what phase 18 of the moon they can't get pregnant. 19 I mean, this is the year 2013. 20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator DeFrancisco. 21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: What phase of the moon? 22 I mean, I could try. 23 [Laughter.] 24 DAVID SYRACUSE: Whoa! 25 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I'd like to attend your 1 class. You must be an extremely good teacher. 2 DAVID SYRACUSE: You all have a standing 3 invitation. 4 Come on Fridays. We do something cool on 5 Fridays. 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Okay. 7 The question is, where you do teach? 8 DAVID SYRACUSE: I teach TST BOCES. 9 Tompkins-Seneca-Tioga BOCES, in their career- and 10 technical-education center. 11 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: And that's located in 12 what -- 13 DAVID SYRACUSE: In Ithaca, New York. 14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Ithaca. Okay. 15 Secondly, you had mentioned about Pearson, 16 and the privatizing. 17 I've got a feeling that some of the people 18 against the Pearson doing that, think that they may 19 have some private agenda with the testing, and so 20 forth. 21 Have you -- do you feel that's the case, 22 other than simply the concept that private companies 23 shouldn't be doing this, the public should, is there 24 some kind of bias in how they conduct the test, in 25 your opinion? 1 DAVID SYRACUSE: No, I don't think they have 2 a bias. I don't think they're Republican or 3 Democrat, or they're trying to push students to say, 4 Oh, well, little Johnnie likes red. Oh, he's a 5 Republican now. 6 Not that kind of thing. 7 Nothing like that, but I do think they're a 8 for-profit -- well, they are a for-profit company, 9 and with that comes a certain, I don't know if I can 10 call it a set of ethics, but a set of ideas, in 11 that, their job is to make money. 12 Their job is not to educate students. 13 And I question, when a company like that is 14 in charge of evaluating our students, and our 15 teachers, because I had to take tests to become a 16 teacher, test administered and developed by Pearson, 17 uh, that seems like a lot of control for one company 18 to have over public education. 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Lastly, you had 20 mentioned a system, your thought would be, that 21 master teachers evaluating others. 22 DAVID SYRACUSE: Uh-huh. 23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: What's the remedy if a 24 master teacher -- what would your remedy be, if a 25 master teacher finds that this teacher is just not 1 doing his or her job? 2 What's the remedy if that's the finding? 3 DAVID SYRACUSE: Well, there's two things 4 I can say, and both will get me a lot of flack no 5 matter what I say, so I'm just going to say them 6 both. 7 If a teacher's not going their job, they 8 shouldn't be teaching. 9 I think that we can all think back into our 10 past, and think of someone, not a teacher, but a 11 person serving us coffee; a person driving a bus; a 12 person doing something, that was not doing their 13 job. And consistently didn't do their job. 14 And I've had a bad day. Trust me, I've had 15 bad days with my students. 16 When there's a pep rally and it was Halloween 17 and they're all sugared-up, you know, I can be the 18 best teacher in the world, but, they're not going to 19 listen to me. 20 If a teacher demonstrates that they're 21 consistently not -- 22 And this is coming from a teacher, mind you. 23 This is why I'm going to get flack for this later. 24 If a teacher demonstrates that they are 25 consistently not helping students, and that they've 1 demonstrated that they've tried to improve what 2 they're doing, maybe they shouldn't be teaching. 3 If a bus driver continues to wreck the bus, 4 and doesn't take a driving course, maybe that bus 5 driver shouldn't be driving a bus. 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: So not a very novel 7 thought that you're coming up with here, you 8 realize. 9 Thank you. 10 I enjoyed your presentation. 11 Thank you. 12 DAVID SYRACUSE: I enjoyed giving it. 13 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Little. 14 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you. 15 As a teacher, I have to say I admired your 16 passion. 17 And I just want to tell, you had the 18 attention of every single person in this room for 19 the entire talk. 20 So, your students are very fortunate to have 21 you. 22 DAVID SYRACUSE: Very kind to say. 23 SENATOR LITTLE: As a teacher, would it be 24 helpful to you, to have, to see, the test results of 25 the students in your class who took the test? 1 DAVID SYRACUSE: Absolutely. 2 I teach eleventh- and twelfth-graders, so if 3 we're talking the 3-through-8 tests, I mean, that 4 information might not directly have an impact on how 5 I would conduct myself in the course. 6 But, certainly, it would be beneficial to see 7 the entire test, and to say, Well, these kids didn't 8 really quite get this, maybe I need to focus on 9 this. 10 That would make sense. 11 I always give all of my tests and quizzes 12 back, because I make up new ones every year, because 13 if I do the same thing year after year, I would go 14 crazier than I already am. 15 And -- so I don't see why we can't do that. 16 We do with that with the Regents exam now. 17 They're all posted online just a couple of 18 weeks after they're given, every single last 19 question. 20 SENATOR LITTLE: And we spend years taking 21 Regents exams as practice for the others. 22 But, you know, I think you hit on something, 23 because the Commissioner did say it would cost more 24 to get all the tests back, which doesn't make any 25 sense. 1 Hand them back. 2 Send them back. 3 But, thank you, and you did a great job. 4 DAVID SYRACUSE: Well, thank you very much. 5 We could, certainly -- I mean, all of our 6 exams, the bubble sheets, and things, are scored and 7 scanned at local schools. 8 It wouldn't seem that they would need to be 9 sent back, except for things I don't understand. 10 SENATOR LITTLE: No. 11 Right. 12 Thank you. 13 SENATOR TKACZYK: Do you have any suggestions 14 for what would be good ways to get kids college- and 15 career-ready, other than -- from your perspective? 16 DAVID SYRACUSE: In terms of curriculum? Or 17 in terms of -- I mean -- 18 SENATOR TKACZYK: As a teacher, what is the 19 most important thing for you to do to get kids 20 college- and career-ready? 21 DAVID SYRACUSE: To not disengage them from 22 education. 23 We've got a cycle of just disengaged 24 students, because, perhaps their parents went 25 through an education system that really didn't help 1 them, or was not beneficial to them, and then their 2 parents say, Oh, well, you know what? I've got a 3 $15-an-hour job, I'm doing fine. You can just do 4 the same thing. 5 Well, you know, news flash, $15 an hour isn't 6 going to be that much with the class of 2026 coming 7 up. 8 So, we need to find ways not to disengage 9 students. 10 Over-testing them is certainly one of those 11 ways that can disengage them. 12 I know so many of my students get anxiety 13 over tests, simply because they don't know what the 14 result is going to mean. 15 Am I going to have to be a postal worker for 16 the rest of my life, just because that's what I got 17 on this particular thing? 18 Nothing against postal workers, working 19 outside seem fine. 20 But, they get so stressed out about testing. 21 So if we can find other ways not to disengage 22 them. If we can make sure that school isn't so high 23 pressure, and school is couched in a language that, 24 Hey, you don't know everything, and you know what? 25 That's okay, that's why you're here, and that's why 1 I have a job. 2 Let's learn a few things together, instead 3 of, I've got this stuff to get through, and if we 4 don't get through it, I'm going get a worse than a 5 79 on my evaluation. 6 That's not helpful to education. 7 It's taking the flavor out of education. 8 There's another catch phrase for you: "It's 9 taking the flavor of it." 10 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you. 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Valesky. 12 SENATOR VALESKY: Just one comment. 13 David, thank you for your presentation. 14 I appreciate you being here. 15 I don't think, by the way, that your response 16 to Senator DeFrancisco's question, I don't think 17 you're going to get if trouble for your response. 18 I actually think most teachers would agree 19 with you, that they don't want to be teaching with 20 bad teachers. 21 I happen to be married to a public-school 22 teacher. I am a son of two retired public-school 23 teachers. 24 So, all the teachers that I've ever been 25 associated with or know, have no interest in 1 teaching with bad teachers in the classroom. 2 So, I'll just share that. 3 DAVID SYRACUSE: Well, thank you. 4 I appreciate that. 5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I do have a question. 6 We have a wide variety of people here, 7 testifying. 8 DAVID SYRACUSE: Yes, sir. 9 SENATOR FLANAGAN: In terms of teacher 10 evaluations, is it your contention that, 11 essentially, only teachers should be evaluating 12 teachers? 13 DAVID SYRACUSE: Uh-huh. 14 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. 15 So, by extension, because one of the groups 16 that's gonna come up, and I'm sure they'll comment 17 on this, are the school administrators. 18 In your opinion, they're not competent to be 19 doing that review? 20 DAVID SYRACUSE: No, that's not what I mean 21 to imply. 22 And if I did, I apologize. 23 So, let the record show that that is not the 24 case. 25 I think they are more than able to evaluate, 1 because most of them, if not all were them, were 2 teachers themselves. They know what aspects of good 3 teaching is. 4 They are overwhelmed with the amount of stuff 5 that they have to do. 6 My administrator had two tiny little 7 observations, and that's what he had to base this, 8 27-, 32-page Danielson rubric on. 9 And, I don't think that was beneficial to me. 10 I don't think that was beneficial to my 11 administrator. 12 I don't think it helped the kids. 13 So, if we could have teachers, retired 14 teachers -- again, it's above my pay grade to try 15 and figure out how this would work -- but my idea 16 is, teachers know what good teaching is. 17 Why not have them evaluate teachers? 18 Just as, if you're going to have someone take 19 a driving test, you want a good driver in there 20 certifying that the person is a good driver. 21 You don't -- and that just seems to make 22 sense to me. 23 Certainly, principals are able to do that. 24 Certainly, superintendents are able to do 25 that, whatever the -- it happens to be in the 1 particular district. 2 But, they're overwhelmed with the amount of 3 discipline, and the amount of paperwork that they 4 have to fill out for all these other things that 5 we're trying to do. 6 And it might actually improve the system, to 7 have teachers looking at teaching. 8 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Last thing is just a 9 comment, and I keep going back to this, because 10 I hear it in so many different locations. 11 Whether it's Pearson or, frankly, any other 12 company, McGraw-Hill, whomever it may be, 13 ultimately, it's the State Education Department that 14 is responsible. 15 They certainly are a for-profit entity, as 16 are many groups that deal with the State Education 17 Department. 18 But, in terms of policy, and what goes out 19 the door, it is, ultimately, the responsibility of 20 the Commissioner, and the department, and the 21 Board of Regents. 22 So, but thank you for your time. 23 DAVID SYRACUSE: My pleasure. 24 Thank you. 25 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Can I make a last 1 observation? 2 There's still some superintendents in the 3 room. 4 You may get a job offer before you leave here 5 today. 6 [Laughter.] 7 DAVID SYRACUSE: Thank you very much for your 8 time. I appreciate the time. 9 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Superintendent Contreras, 10 you're patience is appreciated, particularly in 11 light of the fact that we are in your home turf. 12 Good afternoon, and welcome. 13 SHARON CONTRERAS: Thank you. 14 JENNIFER PYLE: Good afternoon. 15 SHARON CONTRERAS: Good afternoon. 16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And, Jennifer, welcome to 17 you as well. 18 JENNIFER PYLE: Thank you. 19 And I'm going to leave my time to the 20 Superintendent today. 21 I've submitted some brief comments, that 22 I know you'll be hearing from other superintendents 23 in other cities. 24 So, thank you, though, for the opportunity. 25 SHARON CONTRERAS: Good afternoon, 1 Senator Flanagan; to the great supporters of the 2 Syracuse City School District, Senator Valesky and 3 Senator DeFrancisco; to the Education Committee. 4 I appreciate the opportunity to testify today 5 on this, the first day of Breast Cancer Awareness 6 Month. 7 So, today, I honor those we've lost, those 8 who are survivers, and those who are still fighting. 9 I am so proud to be the superintendent of the 10 Syracuse City School District where we have 11 21,000 bright, talented, and gifted students. 12 I'm also so pleased to be here to discuss the 13 New York State Regents Reform Agenda. 14 As you know, the Syracuse City School 15 District has just implemented, or is in the second 16 year of implementation, of our five-year strategic 17 plan, which is directly aligned to the 18 Regents Reform Agenda. 19 Our ultimate goal in the strategic plan is an 20 educational community that graduates every student 21 as a responsible active citizen prepared for 22 college, careers, and the global economy. 23 And I just want to point out that areas of 24 specific alignment, include: 25 Making sure we fully implement the 1 Common Core; 2 Including instructional data systems to 3 inform teachers' and principal practice; 4 Making sure we're recruiting, developing, 5 retaining, and rewarding effective teachers; 6 And, turning around the lowest-achieving 7 schools. 8 And we deeply believe in these four 9 components. 10 Most districts, including Syracuse, saw a 11 tremendous drop in our assessment results this past 12 summer. 13 And it was very, very difficult to receive 14 these assessment results. 15 However, for us, it was a reminder and a 16 reason to continue the Regents Reform Agenda. 17 As stated in an op-ed that I co-authored with 18 Superintendent Corliss Kaiser, "Change can be 19 difficult, but movement to embrace the Common Core 20 learning standards is vital and necessary to the 21 success of our students." 22 I truly believe in the highest standards 23 within the Common Core, and that they will benefit 24 all of our students. 25 And I feel this, we have right now, a 1 baseline, that will help us move forward, and know 2 exactly how to support our students. 3 I also commend Commissioner King for his 4 unyielding commitment to and focus on equity for 5 every single child in the state of New York; and, 6 also, his uncompromising belief, it's a shared 7 belief, that New York State can make certain that 8 every single student will be prepared for college 9 and careers, that ensure at least a middle-class 10 existence. 11 So I want to talk a bit about the steps we've 12 taken to do this work in reform. 13 In Syracuse, we've engaged in implementing 14 the rigorous Common Core. We've trained teachers. 15 We offered 35,000 hours of summer professional 16 development. 17 And the teachers attended. 18 There was a 33 percent increase in the time 19 that teachers spent in professional development this 20 summer, indicating their ongoing commitment to their 21 professional practice and to the children in the 22 city of Syracuse. 23 We offered more than 100 courses, covering 24 Common Core to learning standards, and we spent 25 hundreds of hours developing curriculum aligned to 1 the Common Core, in English-language arts, 2 social studies, and math. 3 We've implemented new-talent recruitment, 4 support, and retention; systems including mutual 5 consent, because we know that when teachers choose 6 to work in a school and they know they're selected 7 by the principal, and there's mutual consent, 8 teachers are more satisfied, and, ultimately, they 9 will be more effective. 10 The State can help us, however, by holding 11 teacher-preparation programs accountable for the 12 quality of the candidates that are enrolled, and 13 accountable for the quality of their program. 14 We've also developed a teaching and learning 15 framework that defines what effectiveness is in 16 teaching and leadership. And that was done through 17 a community-wide task force. 18 So, even though we had to come up with the -- 19 a system that was approved by the State, we did 20 include the community in that process. 21 We piloted, the new evaluation system was in 22 2011-12. We fully implemented, last school year, 23 for the first time. 24 And, now, because we have some data, we are 25 now able to offer targeted supports in the schools. 1 We've also launched the innovation zone made 2 up of seven schools; seven of the lowest-performing 3 schools in the district. 4 We have new principals. 5 We've staffed those buildings through mutual 6 consent. Only two teachers were actually placed in 7 the innovation zone. 8 Teachers receive extra professional 9 development every single day, about five hours per 10 week. 11 And, we've increased instructional time for 12 our students by 20 percent. They receive an extra 13 hour of instruction every single day. 14 However, the Regents Reform Agenda is being 15 undermined because reform is expensive to implement, 16 and the State funding is not equitable. 17 In some cases, SED has provided additional 18 funding. 19 In the example of the I-zone, we received 20 $31.5 million to implement that initiative. 21 We receive funding through the strategic 22 teaching -- Strengthening Teacher and Leadership 23 Effectiveness Grant, helping us to include peer 24 evaluators. 25 Interesting that you just mentioned how 1 teachers can help other teachers. 2 So, in our evaluation model, we have content 3 specialists who are teachers, who do at least one of 4 the evaluations or observations for teachers. 5 But, that is funded through a grant, and 6 there is no sustainable way to fund that without the 7 grant. 8 We also just received a $2.8 million grant to 9 expand career/technical education. 10 And we have a groundbreaking partnership with 11 MACNY, with Onondaga Community College, to provide 12 50 students a year with training in advanced 13 manufacturing, manufacturing technology, 14 electrical-engineering technology. 15 They will graduate with an associate's 16 degree, and then one of our MACNY corporations will 17 provide them with a job in the 18 40,000-to-60,000-dollar range when they complete 19 high school. 20 So, we are receiving some support. 21 However, the cost is huge of implementation 22 of APPR, and of the Common Core, and we're using our 23 already-diminishing scarce resources. 24 As Kevin Ahern mentioned, we've lost 25 25 percent of our staff. 1 And I just want to give you some numbers 2 about how much this costs. 3 In 2011, it cost the district 1.2 million to 4 roll out the Common Core, and another 2 million in 5 the design and implementation of APPR. 6 Last year, we spent $9 million on Common Core 7 and 6 million on APPR implementation. 8 That's $15 million in one year alone. 9 These figures include costs related to 10 development of materials aligned to the Common Core, 11 purchase of materials aligned to the Common Core, 12 development and purchase of new assessments to 13 measure student growth, APPR data systems, and 14 professional-development requirements for our 15 teachers. 16 We believe eliminating the gap-elimination 17 adjustment would yield about $8 million per year for 18 Syracuse. 19 And that is a specific example of a way you 20 can help us, so that we can continue to implement 21 the Reform Agenda without laying off additional 22 staff. 23 I also want to stress that we have to ensure 24 there's not an overreliance on the standardized 25 testing. 1 Even as standardized assessments give us 2 vital information to measure gaps in student 3 learning, we have to ensure there's not this 4 overreliance. 5 Yes, achievement data and growth data based 6 on state assessments are important indicators of 7 performance, but they are not meaningful when 8 considered -- they are most meaningful when 9 considered alongside other measures. 10 And I speak specifically about the impact on 11 our English-language learners, special-education 12 students. 13 We have 1600 English-language learners, 14 2100 refugee students, many who come to the 15 United States, and Syracuse, with little or no 16 formal schooling. 17 Elements of the state accountability systems 18 that rely on proficiency, at one point in time, 19 without considering the trajectory, can penalize 20 school districts and individual schools that serve 21 large groups of refugee students. 22 And this is problematic for us. 23 And we continue to have an influx of these 24 students. Since July 1st, I have enrolled 25 400 refugee students into the district. 1 As you know, the State funding formula is 2 frozen, and I'm not receiving State aid for 3 additional students in the Syracuse City School 4 District. 5 I think we also must provide financial and 6 legislative support for initiatives that provide 7 health and social-emotional supports for students 8 living in poverty. 9 This includes funding for the Say Yes model. 10 We are the first Say Yes district in the 11 nation. 12 We have mental-health clinics in twenty-one 13 of our schools. 14 We've school-based health centers. 15 We have social workers and counselors, but, 16 we've had to cut some of those social workers and 17 some of those counselors when our students need them 18 desperately. 19 You heard Senator DeFrancisco speak to the 20 discipline -- high-discipline, out-of-school 21 suspension rates in the district. 22 They are unacceptable out-of-school 23 suspension rates, but we could do more to support 24 these students if they had support services. 25 Say Yes provides Last Dollar tuition 1 scholarships to all of our students, but we have to 2 get them to the point where they will graduate and 3 be successful in college. 4 Without support systems, like Say Yes to 5 Education, it makes our job in Syracuse even more 6 difficult, so I ask that you support that. 7 The Say Yes initiative, our strategic plan, 8 and the Regents Reform Agenda represent a long-term 9 collective investment in their students, and their 10 future. 11 And I have no doubt that we can succeed with 12 the Reform Agenda, if given -- if we have the will, 13 the focus on instruction, and a fair funding system. 14 Thank you. 15 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you, Superintendent. 16 Senator Valesky. 17 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you, 18 Superintendent Contreras. 19 I just have one question, and you sort of 20 addressed it near the end of your remarks, but 21 I wanted to revisit it for a moment. 22 Before I do that, though, I just -- you know, 23 particularly in light of the assessment grades, and 24 in this school district, and the attention to those 25 scores, I think it is important to remember, and to 1 highlight, as I know you do all the time, the 2 success stories from your school district. 3 And I, along with you, had the opportunity to 4 welcome the President of the United States to one of 5 your high schools, Henninger High School, about a 6 month ago, or so. 7 And, the young man, his name was 8 Emilio Ortiz [ph.], I think -- 9 SHARON CONTRERAS: Yes. 10 SENATOR VALESKY: -- who attends 11 Corcoran High School, was just incredibly impressive 12 in his introduction of the President. 13 And I think that we all need to celebrate 14 those success stories more than we do, and more 15 often than we do. 16 So I want you to know how impressed I was 17 with his presentation. 18 SHARON CONTRERAS: Thank you. 19 SENATOR VALESKY: And, yours, in getting that 20 high school ready, and under that challenge that the 21 secret service I know presented. 22 My question has to do with Say Yes, and 23 I know the Say Yes program predates you in your term 24 here, and it also predates the Regents Reform 25 Agenda. 1 So, to what degree has having the Say Yes 2 program in effect here, uhm, helped ease the 3 transition through adoption of the Common Core and 4 the entire Reform Agenda? 5 And, to whatever degree that might be, is 6 that a model that -- understanding that's not a 7 government model -- but, is that a model that can be 8 replicated in other areas, that would be helpful? 9 SHARON CONTRERAS: I think so. 10 There are four elements of the Say Yes model. 11 There are the health supports; 12 social-emotional supports; financial supports, which 13 is the tuition scholarship; and academic supports. 14 I think what is posing a problem is, while 15 Say Yes to Education is very well aligned to the 16 Regents Reform Agenda, you end up making decisions 17 that you shouldn't have to make about what to 18 support. 19 So, we have eliminated some of the 20 social workers and counselors, when that's an 21 element we need to actually implement the 22 Regents Reform Agenda, in terms of providing 23 adequate academic supports, because, without those 24 wrap-around kinds of supports, it's difficult for 25 teachers to really deal with the academic needs of 1 our students. 2 So, I think that Say Yes to Education is a 3 great model for reform, and I think it aligns well 4 with the Regents Reform Agenda. 5 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you. 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Seward. 7 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, very briefly, 8 Madam Superintendent. 9 I had -- I was struck by your comment that -- 10 in the -- I think in some of the failing schools 11 that you may have here, or -- I assume that was 12 based on test scores? These high-stakes tests? 13 SHARON CONTRERAS: The priority schools, 14 and -- priority schools yes. 15 SENATOR SEWARD: "Priority," that's what you 16 call them, yes. 17 I shouldn't call them "failing schools." 18 But, in any event, you said one of the steps 19 that were taken, was to find an extra hour of 20 instruction time per day. 21 And -- which seems ambitious to me, because 22 one of the -- I know one of the things I hear about, 23 particularly with the Common Core, that there's so 24 much to cover in a short time -- period of time, 25 that it's really jammed in the day -- the school 1 day. 2 How did you fine an extra hour of instruction 3 time? 4 Did something else have to give -- 5 SHARON CONTRERAS: The teachers -- 6 SENATOR SEWARD: -- in order for you to 7 accomplish that? 8 SHARON CONTRERAS: You're asking me how do we 9 use that time? Or how are -- 10 SENATOR SEWARD: How did you find an extra 11 hour? 12 SHARON CONTRERAS: Oh, how did we find the 13 extra hour? 14 SENATOR SEWARD: Did anything else have to go 15 in order to accomplish that? 16 SHARON CONTRERAS: Well, it was -- no. 17 It was actually mandated, as part of the 18 turnaround-school model. 19 And we negotiated, and sat down with STA, and 20 we figured out where that extra hour would be placed 21 during the day. 22 However, the schools have a governance model, 23 where they can choose to extend the school year. 24 They have 20 percent additional time. Or, 25 additional time, and that amounts to about 1 20 percent over what they currently have. 2 And those schools are allowed to determine 3 how they use that time, and when they use it. 4 So, next year, there may be schools that say, 5 We want the same school day that we had last year, 6 but we want to extend the school year and offer 7 year-round schooling. 8 They are able to do that in this model. 9 But, the additional time is being utilized to 10 provide differentiated supports for students. 11 And we're also able now to really focus on 12 science and social studies, which was being left out 13 previously because of a short school day. 14 We realize that, eventually, most of the 15 schools will have a longer school day, because every 16 single school in the Syracuse City School District 17 is a priority or focus school. 18 And we're working with the National Center on 19 Time and Learning, to provide technical assistance 20 to every school in how they will find that time and 21 use that time. 22 In addition to that hour, every teacher has 23 an additional half hour per day of common planning 24 time, giving them a full hour of common planning 25 time. 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator DeFrancisco. 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Is that -- actually, 3 there's more hours in a day that are in the school 4 day at those schools right now? 5 SHARON CONTRERAS: Yes. 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: And is there a -- is 7 there are corresponding change in salaries as a 8 result of that? 9 SHARON CONTRERAS: The teachers receive a 10 $6,000 stipend that is funded through that 11 $31 1/2 million grant. 12 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Okay, so the State is 13 providing the funds for this additional mandate? 14 SHARON CONTRERAS: Yes, they have. 15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Okay. 16 Lastly, I just want to clear up about the 17 Say Yes program. 18 I support it; have supported it from the 19 beginning. 20 My point simply is this: 21 There are many people in every one of our 22 districts, including mine, and Syracuse is part of 23 my district, that parents say to me, What am I; 24 something wrong with me? 25 I'm not very rich, and I'd like my college 1 tuition paid for, too. 2 So it seems, at the very minimum, these 3 students should be college-proficient -- that have a 4 condition should be, for a free college education, 5 that they be prepared for college and not have to 6 have remediation. 7 That's my only point. 8 And -- because the program -- it's a good 9 concept. 10 I understand Buffalo is consider -- they're 11 considering doing it in Buffalo. 12 That's great. 13 But, for that enormous, enormous benefit, 14 there should be a corresponding responsibility, so 15 it's fair to other districts that don't have it. 16 That's all I wanted to point out. 17 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Tkaczyk. 18 SENATOR TKACZYK: Thank you. 19 I wanted to ask you about the funding. 20 You mentioned, in 2011, you spent 21 1.2 million, and 2 million, on Common Core, and 22 APPR. 23 And, today, it's to the tune of 9 million, 24 and 6 million. 25 Are -- is that amount of money going to be -- 1 continue to grow? 2 Is this -- are you -- is that the level 3 you're going to be expected to cover every year? 4 Kind of, what -- could you explain, is this a 5 growing thing? 6 And what -- did you get any money from the 7 750 million that the State got from the Race To The 8 Top grant to cover that? 9 SHARON CONTRERAS: We did receive Race To The 10 Top funds. 11 We used the entitlement. 12 We used the general fund. 13 I don't expect it will cost this much every 14 year, but teachers are going to need professional 15 development for some time. 16 The cost of developing assessments is 17 astronomical. 18 The cost of purchasing assessments is 19 astronomical. 20 So, we have to find better ways to do this. 21 Because, even when we develop the assessments 22 on our own, you still have to pay the teachers for 23 their time. 24 There's printing costs. 25 I think we had over 200 assessments for SLOs. 1 And I do want to just clarify one thing: 2 The local piece of APPR, you don't have to 3 use all of those assessments. 4 We chose to do that, because we didn't have 5 enough time to develop something that was more 6 progressive, and that teachers would have felt was 7 more meaningful. 8 So, you can develop performance tasks, you 9 can use portfolios. We simply ran out of time, 10 based on the State's deadline. 11 So, I just wanted to be clear, you don't have 12 to use that many assessments. 13 We're doing that, because it was the quickest 14 way to comply with the State requirement. 15 SENATOR TKACZYK: And just going forward, 16 what do you -- what is the most pressing thing, 17 resource? 18 Or, could you identify things that you need 19 to make this a successful process? 20 Is it time? Is it money? 21 Is it -- what is it going to -- from your 22 perspective, gonna make it -- continue to improve, 23 and get to where we're getting more kids ready for 24 college and careers? 25 SHARON CONTRERAS: I think that, obviously, 1 we do need funding to make certain that we can 2 continue this, but time to do this in a way that 3 teachers -- so that teachers and administrators 4 believe this is a credible system. 5 It's not just time in the development. 6 It's time to communicate to our families, 7 who, all of a sudden, their students are taking a 8 lot more assessments. They don't necessarily 9 understand all the components. 10 Many people get confused with Common Core and 11 APPR. When I'm talking to them, they're not quite 12 sure what their issue is, but they know they have an 13 issue. 14 So I think if we had a little more time, we 15 could have rolled this out more effectively. 16 However, I have to say, that I understand the 17 sense of urgency when you look at the number of 18 students who are going to college, not prepared; or 19 when you sit at a business roundtable, and your 20 local businesses and corporations tell you how 21 underprepared students are for the workforce. 22 So -- but there still has to be a balance so 23 that we can do this well and have a credible system. 24 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Superintendent, you knew 25 I was going to ask you one question: 1 So on that scale of 1 to 10, no pressure, 2 there's a drum roll in the background, but there's 3 no pressure? 4 SHARON CONTRERAS: The communication with 5 State Education Department? 6 Is that the question? 7 Okay. 8 I always have access, because of the 9 Big Five, NYSCSS, with the Commissioner, and the 10 deputy commissioners, assistant commissioners. 11 But SED is a vast, vast organization, and the 12 level of communication is not consistent throughout 13 the organization. 14 So, if I have to, I can reach the 15 Commissioner and they always listen to our concerns. 16 They don't always agree with what we're saying. 17 But I do feel I can, at any time, get them to 18 the table, because of the Big Five, NYSCSS, and just 19 because they have a relationship with us, and they 20 sit and try to resolve issues. 21 But that is not consistent throughout the 22 State Education Department. 23 SENATOR FLANAGAN: That was good. 24 [Laughter.] 25 SENATOR FLANAGAN: However, 1 (indicating) 1 10. 2 SHARON CONTRERAS: I don't know how to answer 3 that. I'm sorry. 4 But I feel like I have very good 5 communicationing [sic] and great access to the 6 leadership at SED. 7 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yeah, but, frankly, part 8 of the reason I'm asking is, by virtue of the fact 9 that I Chair the Committee, I mean, I have excellent 10 access to the department, the Department -- and so 11 do my colleagues, just as being elected officials, 12 but, I'm trying to, you know, glean from the people 13 who are here, and a lot of stuff we get in terms of 14 e-mails, what that level of communication is. 15 I certainly have great respect for what you 16 do, and I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but 17 I will also underscore that, we're the only ones 18 having hearings. 19 SED's not having hearings. The Regents are 20 not having hearings. The Governor's not having 21 hearings. The Assembly's not having hearings. 22 We're doing this so people can lay out what 23 their wishes are, what their desires are, and what 24 their concerns are. 25 But, Say Yes, Mary Ann is excellent. 1 I really like working with her. I felt I learned 2 quite a bit from her. 3 I do have one other quick question. 4 SHARON CONTRERAS: Yes. 5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: As a superintendent, the 6 upcoming Regents, I believe that this is where, kind 7 of, the rubber meets the road. 8 The ELA exams, and everything, 3 through 8, 9 it's not that they are insignificant, because they 10 are; however, now we're talking about graduation, 11 and now we're talking about college. 12 My concern is, that the Regents having full 13 implementation of Common Core for this upcoming 14 year, or, this year that we're in, that has a 15 potential to be highly problematic. 16 Because, if there's a 30 percent drop in the 17 scores now, what's going to happen when a kid, who 18 probably would have gotten, like, an 85, or an 86, 19 gets a 71, or a 69? 20 Do you -- are you -- 21 SHARON CONTRERAS: They will still graduate 22 with a 71. 23 And, to my knowledge, the universities do not 24 use the Regents in any way, and I think that's 25 something that Commissioner King is working on. 1 I think you would see better results on the 2 Regents if they were actually used by higher 3 education in a meaningful way. 4 And they are not. 5 Instead of students having to take placement 6 tests, they should be using these Regents scores in 7 higher education, to indicate which courses students 8 should be taking. 9 So, certainly, there may be a drop, I expect 10 a drop, but I prefer that we have good information 11 about where students really are. 12 The parents deserve that, and the students 13 deserve that. 14 But I think we need to work more diligently 15 to ensure that those Regents are used by higher 16 education. 17 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you very much. 18 Appreciate it. 19 SHARON CONTRERAS: Thank you. 20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Next we have, 21 Michael Cohen, president of Achieve. 22 And I want to reiterate for everyone who has 23 had the patience to stay with us and continue to 24 listen, that all the written testimony is online. 25 Everything we get will go up online. 1 And, this is being live-streamed, so, for 2 those who are sticking it out, there are people who 3 are here listening to you directly, and indirectly, 4 and we appreciate your patience. 5 Mr. Cohen. 6 MICHAEL COHEN: Senator, thank you very much 7 for the opportunity to testify before you this 8 afternoon. 9 Let me tell you a little bit about myself, 10 and about Achieve, before I jump into the substance 11 of my remarks. 12 First of all, you should know, I am a product 13 of the New York City public schools, and the SUNY 14 system here in New York State. 15 I grew up in Brooklyn. 16 Went to SUNY Binghamton; met my wife from 17 Glens Falls there. 18 And, I have family elsewhere in the state. 19 I took -- when I was in high school, which 20 was a long, long time ago, I took Regents exams, 21 I earned a Regents diploma, and I got a Regents 22 scholarship. 23 Throughout that time, neither I nor anyone in 24 my family knew what a "Regents" was, except, the 25 name of the tests that we took and the diploma that 1 we got. 2 It wasn't until much later in my professional 3 career that I understood there's actually a 4 governing body with that name. 5 Keep that in mind when you raise concerns 6 about the ability of State Ed Department to 7 communicate. 8 Right? 9 It is a challenge. It's not a brand new one. 10 I graduated in 1968, so it was a while ago 11 that we participated in all of this without fully 12 understanding what the State was up to. 13 I'll come back to that point more 14 substantively in a few moments. 15 Achieve is a bipartisan non-profit 16 organization, independent. 17 We are governed by governors and business 18 leaders. 19 And, we were founded in 1996, basically, to 20 help states with standards-based reform. 21 Even before the Common Core were developed, 22 we had worked with more than half of the states to 23 improve their math and literacy standards so that 24 they reflected college- and career-readiness. 25 We actually did research, that came out in 1 2004, that identified the skills that were needed in 2 order to succeed in post-secondary education, 3 including career training programs. 4 And we also determined, by the way, that 5 almost no state required students to demonstrate 6 those skills, or even to take courses that had a 7 chance of teaching those skills, in order to earn a 8 high school diploma. 9 So we've been working for a decade with 10 states to close this expectations' gap between what 11 students needs to know in order to succeed, and what 12 they need to demonstrate in order to earn a 13 high school. 14 We've got to bring that [indicates], the 15 expectations and the requirements closer together 16 than they have -- than they are now, and have been 17 for a long time. 18 We worked with the National Governors 19 Association and the Council of Chief State School 20 Officers to help states develop the Common Core 21 state standards, so we've been in the middle of the 22 development. 23 We have been working with states to support 24 their implementation, including a network of about 25 20 states that are using a tool that New York State 1 helped develop, to evaluate the alignment and 2 quality of instructional materials. 3 We've been helping 20 states use that same 4 rubric in order to look at their own instructional 5 materials. 6 It suggests the power of collaboration in 7 common, that states can use the same tool to look at 8 quality, even though they developed their own 9 curriculum and instructional materials. 10 And New York's been a key player in that. 11 We are also helping a slightly different 12 group of 20 states develop the PARCC assessments 13 that Commissioner King referred to in his testimony. 14 These are next-generation tests based on the 15 Common Core in math and ELA, right, that I will talk 16 about a bit, because they help address some of the 17 issues that you've been debating here with regard to 18 the role of assessments. 19 So I want to spend a couple of minutes 20 telling you about that. 21 But, overall, what I bring to this hearing is 22 a national perspective on Common Core 23 implementation, and I want to just put the comments 24 and discussion that you've been having here in a 25 national context. 1 First thing to keep in mind, as people have 2 pointed out, 45 states have adopted the Common Core. 3 50 states are working to develop college- and 4 career-ready policies, right, that, basically, 5 overhaul the mission of the K-to-12 system, so that 6 its purpose, right, it's reason for existence, is to 7 prepare all of the students for post-secondary 8 success. 9 When I went to high school, right, the 10 mission of the K-to-12 system was to prepare about a 11 quarter of us for post-secondary success, and the 12 rest could find their way in the workplace, on their 13 own, without much difficulty. 14 Now we're in an economy where, virtually, all 15 of the jobs that pay well and have advancement 16 potential require some kind of post-secondary 17 education. 18 It could be a 4-year college, it could be 19 2-year college, could be technical-training program 20 that leads to an industry-recognized credential, but 21 our research has showed, that to succeed in any of 22 those programs is, literally, a common core of 23 quantitative and literacy skills that are necessary 24 for all students to acquire when they leave 25 high school. 1 And that's the premise of Common Core state 2 standards, is that there really are common 3 expectations for success in college and career, at 4 least in those core subject areas. 5 All of the states that are pursuing this 6 agenda, whether with Common Core or without, are 7 experiencing some of the same tensions that you've 8 heard surfaced here in this hearing: 9 The tension between the urgency to improve 10 achievement; 11 The costs, there are such high remediation 12 rates; 13 There are some of these signals from 14 employers, that students are graduating from 15 high school poorly prepared, academically, for 16 what's needed in the workplace; 17 Signals from college faculty, that even 18 students who are in credit-bearing courses lack -- 19 that many of them lack the skills they need do real 20 college-level work. 21 So the environment is providing all kinds of 22 signals that we need to improve the preparation of 23 young people as they come out of college, many of 24 them, to much higher levels than they are now. 25 Real sense of urgency behind that. 1 And at the same time, this is really 2 complicated work to do. 3 The standards, as you've heard other people 4 describe, call for fundamental shifts in 5 instructional practices for many teachers. 6 Some have been teaching this way for a long 7 time, but for many, this really requires pretty 8 fundamental changes in what they teach, and how they 9 teach, and in particular, how they teach the most 10 disadvantaged students. 11 Those changes don't occur overnight. 12 So I've heard a debate here about, just how 13 fast should implementation proceed here? how fast 14 should assessment proceed? 15 You're not the only state that is wrestling 16 with it, and I'm not going to tell you exactly what 17 the answer ought to be. 18 I think you've got to find that here in the 19 state, but I'm telling you, you're not alone in 20 wrestling with this, and the struggles that you're 21 facing are being faced elsewhere as well. 22 With regard to the implementation of the 23 Common Core themselves and the State's role, a 24 couple of things, from a national perspective, and 25 I'll be brief in this: 1 First, it's worth keeping in mind, as you've 2 heard from a lot of people, implementation of the 3 Common Core is both a state responsibility and a 4 locally responsibility. 5 Local districts, local leadership, matters a 6 lot in the pace and effectiveness of implementation. 7 Compared to other states, the effort that 8 New York State is making is probably the most 9 robust -- robust and aggressive of any state in the 10 country. 11 All over the country people are looking at 12 the EngageNY website, to look at the curriculum 13 materials, the instructional tools, the assessment 14 tools, the professional-development tools, the basic 15 communications tools for talking about the 16 Common Core. 17 Right? 18 Bar none, New York State is ahead of the rest 19 of the states on that. 20 That doesn't mean it leads to even, 21 consistent, rapid implementation at the local level, 22 but in terms of what states typically do, the effort 23 here in New York far surpasses what states have done 24 before, right, and it surpasses what almost any 25 state is doing now. 1 That's particularly with regard to, if you 2 will, the technical work or the substantive work. 3 You know, instructional modules, 4 professional-development materials, and the like. 5 That's different from the communications and 6 coalition building that has to go along with 7 implementation. 8 It's different from the cultural change that 9 needs to occur, that has to go along with 10 implementation. 11 And here's a place, where, as I listened to 12 the testimony you've been hearing, something 13 occurred to me that I had not thought about before 14 I got here. 15 We are working with many states around the 16 country, and with foundations that are supporting 17 these efforts, to support third -- independent 18 third-party coalitions, typically involving the 19 business community, the education community, 20 higher education, and parents. 21 Right? 22 Those partners have to play a critical role 23 in building support for implementation, in 24 sustaining the efforts, and providing a trusted 25 place where the tensions that you're working through 1 here around pace and timing and money, and the like, 2 can be worked out. 3 Right? 4 Foundations are looking to support that work 5 in states around the country, and there are some 6 really outstanding examples of those kinds of 7 coalitions. 8 TN-SCORE, is one example. 9 AdvancED Illinois, is another. 10 I could go on. 11 The point I want to make is, they're having a 12 very hard time finding, right, that kind of 13 third-party coalition right here in New York. 14 You are missing that. 15 You don't have a place -- as best as I can 16 tell, or anyone else looking from outside the state, 17 you don't have a place that brings people together, 18 to work on these tough issues from across sectors 19 with the shared commitment to a successful 20 implementation. 21 Instead what I'm seeing is, disparate 22 efforts, right, lots of pockets of advocacy of one 23 kind or another. 24 That's not a recipe for sustained reform. 25 The states historically that have undertaken 1 ambitious reforms. 2 I'm thinking now back to the '80s, right, 3 in the wake of "A Nation At Risk." 4 South Carolina had one of the most ambitious 5 reforms. 6 Right? 7 Then-Governor, subsequently, Secretary of 8 Education, Dick Riley created a business-education 9 partnership that brought all those parties together, 10 had some oversight responsibilities for reform, not 11 in a formal governance way, but in the matter of, 12 kind of, paying attention to how implementation was 13 going, and trying to keep the effort sustained for a 14 decade. And they succeeded at that, despite changes 15 in the governor's office, despite changes in party 16 control of the governor's office and the 17 legislature. 18 Other states have done the same thing. 19 I don't see that kind of infrastructure here 20 in the state, so I'd suggest that's something that 21 you might want to give some thought to. 22 Another topic I want to talk about, quickly: 23 assessment. 24 You heard the Commissioner talk about the new 25 Common Core assessments, you've heard lots of people 1 talk about that, and the results that you've gotten. 2 Those are not surprising, by the way, that 3 the proficiency levels went down very much, and it 4 is largely a sign of the increased rigor of the 5 standards that they're measuring and the tests 6 themselves. 7 I want to just take a minute to tell you 8 about the PARCC assessments. 9 Those are coming from a network of 20 states, 10 including New York State. 11 The states are in charge of the assessments, 12 Achieve facilitates the process. 13 Right? 14 There are some things about those assessments 15 that represent advances of what's going on now, that 16 I want to bring to your attention. 17 First of all, a high level of transparency, 18 right, in the design of the test, in the 19 specifications for the test. 20 You've had a discussion about this. 21 There will be a significant number of items 22 that are released every year so people can see 23 exactly what the test looks like. 24 I haven't determine quite the number of items 25 yet, but it will be a substantial portion, so that 1 will be readily apparent. 2 Comparability; right? 3 These tests are designed so that the 4 20 states that participate, if they continue to, 5 will be giving the same test. 6 We'll able to compare results across states. 7 You could tell New York State making more 8 rapid gains, larger gains, than other states; or are 9 you slower than everyone else? 10 You have no way of knowing that now. 11 You would as part of a consortium of states 12 developing the same test. 13 These tests were developed -- many people are 14 concerned that testing programs in states now drive 15 instruction: what's tested, what gets taught -- is 16 what gets taught. 17 And that creates a fair amount of pressure, 18 and can distort the instructional program. 19 The PARCC tests were deliberately created, 20 are being deliberately created, so that we started 21 with the standards. 22 We started with -- you heard people talk 23 about the instructional shifts, the kinds of 24 instruction that are needed. 25 And the question for the test developers and 1 the states that are working on this, is: What does 2 the test need to look like so that it will support 3 those changes rather than drive a different kind of 4 instruction? 5 So as just one example: 6 On the PARCC tests, there will be some time 7 set aside for reading the kind of complex 8 informational text that are called for by the 9 standards, by perhaps reading two for three pieces 10 on the same topic, and writing several essays around 11 them, just as you would do in a good instructional 12 unit. 13 Right? 14 The tests are designed to mirror what good 15 instruction would be, rather than supplant good 16 instruction with teaching to the test. 17 That, it's a big change in how testing would 18 be done. 19 One other thing I want to mention, these 20 tests are about college- and career-readiness. 21 A previous witness talked about how nice it 22 would be if post-secondary institutions actually 23 paid attention to the results on the Regents exams 24 and used those to indicate whether students are 25 ready for credit-bearing work or not. 1 That's exactly what the PARCC assessments are 2 designed to do. 3 And, the post-secondary systems in every one 4 of the participating states is at the table, helping 5 determine the content of the tests; reviewing the 6 tests design and test items; will be involved in 7 setting the cut scores, the standards on the test, 8 so that they can be confident, that if a student 9 reaches that level, they can tell them that they 10 will -- they can tell that student that they won't 11 have to take another placement test when they get to 12 college. They will be ready to do credit-bearing 13 work. 14 Alternatively, for students who don't do 15 well, they can be told, that, You're only in the 16 11th grade now. You've got another year of 17 high school. Here's what you need to do to fill in 18 the skill gaps. 19 So, that's just an overview, right, of new 20 work that's underway on assessments that New York 21 can take advantage of in the next several years. 22 And I know there's a discussion with the 23 Commissioner and the State Board about whether 24 that's an opportunity to take advantage of. 25 I want to close with one other suggestion, 1 based on what I've heard: a lot of concern about 2 over-testing in the state. 3 One thing that we are -- that we have 4 historically done in education, and we're seeing in 5 other states, is new tests get layered on old -- on 6 top of existing tests. 7 Some of the tests may be replaced, but most 8 districts have benchmark tests, diagnostic tests, 9 quarterly tests. 10 It would be worth thinking about what an 11 audit of testing in the state would look like. 12 What are all the tests that kids need to take 13 every grade? 14 Who uses them for, what purpose? 15 Like, can any of them be replaced or merely 16 eliminated? 17 My guess is, you'd find a way to alleviate 18 some of the concerns about testing, simply by 19 finding out what's going on, and what can be changed 20 in that space. 21 So on that note, I will stop, and I will take 22 your questions for as long as you want to ask them. 23 Thank you. 24 25 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Michael, I checked with my 2 colleagues, and nobody has any questions. 3 Senator DeFrancisco does have to leave. 4 But I just wanted to ask you -- 5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: The lack of questions 6 has nothing to do with the quality of the 7 presentation. 8 It has to do with the hour of the day. 9 MICHAEL COHEN: I'll accept that. 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: And I have to leave, 11 because I made another commitment at this time. 12 I have the testimony of everyone else, and 13 I will read them if you haven't testified yet. 14 That's all I wanted to mention. 15 Thank you. 16 MICHAEL COHEN: Thank you for that comment. 17 SENATOR FLANAGAN: So, one question. 18 MICHAEL COHEN: Yes. 19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: One question, because 20 I would say, and I'm by no means unique, we have 21 groups of people, in different parts of the state, 22 say that: Common Core is horrific. This is the 23 wrong way to go. People should be opting out. This 24 is a perversion of our whole system of education 25 across the country. That this is a federalization 1 of education. 2 Part of my response is, whether you like 3 Common Core is different from the question as to 4 whether or not it's a mandate. 5 It is not -- do you agree with me that it is 6 not a federal mandate? 7 MICHAEL COHEN: I am absolutely certain it is 8 not a federal mandate. 9 It was developed by states. 10 The only role the federal government played 11 was, after the tests were -- I mean, after the 12 standards were developed, they provided incentives 13 through Race To The Top for states to adopt them. 14 I will tell you that's not the only time the 15 federal government, right, has given states money 16 around standards or assessments. 17 In fact, if you go back to 1990, 18 then-Secretary Lamar Alexander and the 19 Bush Administration gave states funds -- every state 20 funds to develop their own standards. 21 Since then, the Title I program has required 22 states to have standards, required states to have 23 tests. 24 From 1994 through 2001, when No Child Left 25 Behind was passed, and it was extended, the federal 1 government has provided money to every state to 2 develop standards and tests since 1990. 3 The Common Core standards are the only state 4 standards, since 1990, that have been developed 5 without federal funds. 6 It is precisely the opposite of a federal 7 mandate or a federal takeover, despite what others 8 might tell you. 9 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I have also heard, as 10 somewhat of a parallel to that, that, Well, because 11 the Race To The Top money was tied to this, it is a 12 federal mandate. 13 It is my understanding that the Race To The 14 Top speaks to the adoption of standards. 15 It doesn't speak to, it has to be Column A or 16 Column B; but, rather, to the sort of generic 17 approach, that you have to have a set of standards 18 that would be approved by your education department. 19 MICHAEL COHEN: So, uhm, it's a little bit 20 more than that. 21 Right? 22 The Race To The Top grant program gave states 23 that applied some extra points -- maybe a dozen out 24 of 400 possible points in the review of 25 applications -- if they adopted standards, I forget 1 exactly how they word it, but the gist of it is was, 2 if you adopted college- and career-ready standards 3 that a lot of other states have adopted as well. 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. 5 MICHAEL COHEN: That really spoke to 6 Common Core. 7 But it's significant, I think, that maybe a 8 dozen states that have gotten Common Core grants. 9 There are 45 states that adopted the 10 standards. They would have adopted it with or 11 without Race To The Top. 12 They might not have adopted as quickly as 13 they did, because they had to get grant applications 14 in, but this was a state-led effort. And, states -- 15 you know, states, with or without Race To The Top 16 money, have adopted the standards. 17 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yeah, and I -- I'll close 18 by just saying, thank you, and I appreciate your 19 testimony. 20 And this is one of the values of having the 21 written testimony submitted, because I think we 22 will -- your written comments and your spoken 23 comments will engender probably other comments and 24 e-mails that everyone will get a chance to see. 25 So thank you for your time. 1 MICHAEL COHEN: You're welcome. 2 Thank you for the opportunity to speak. 3 If any of the questions that my testimony 4 engenders are actually relevant, that you'd like my 5 answers to, I would be happy to respond. 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Trust me, if we don't 7 know, we'll call you. 8 MICHAEL COHEN: Good. Thank you. 9 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you. 10 Okay, now we have: Jim Viola, and our 11 administrators, Paul Gasparini, Timothy Heller, 12 Russell Kissinger, and Maureen Patterson. 13 Do you all feel like you've been waiting 14 outside the principal's office all day? 15 MAUREEN PATTERSON: Yes, but it's okay. 16 JAMES VIOLA: Good afternoon, 17 Senator Flanagan, and honorable members of the 18 Senate Education Committee. 19 Thank you for holding this hearing today, for 20 your stamina, and in answering questions, and 21 staying engaged the entire time. 22 It's our pleasure to present some testimony 23 to you, and we want to thank you for inviting us to 24 present testimony on the behalf of the 25 School Administrators Association of New York. 1 I brought with me four school administrators 2 from four different school districts, so you would 3 have the opportunity to ask on-the-ground, more 4 granular kinds of questions about, How is this 5 playing out? 6 That's why I have Russ Kissinger from 7 Mount Markham High School; I have Paul Gasparini 8 from Jamesville-Dewitt High School; I have 9 Maureen Patterson from Liverpool School District; 10 and I also have Timothy Heller from the 11 Groten Elementary School. 12 Now, down to the brass tacks: 13 In terms of costs and revenues, it's 14 important to remember that school districts were 15 asked to sign on to the Race To The Top program 16 without ever having seen the application, without 17 knowing what their allocation was going to be, 18 without knowing what the costs were going to be, for 19 implementation. 20 Each one of the reforms in Race To The Top 21 includes significant additional costs for school 22 districts, costs that school districts could not 23 have planned for. 24 These things were put in place at the same 25 time that there were fiduciary controls put in place 1 at the state level; things like property-tax cuts, 2 debt-elimination adjustments, and the flat funding 3 of the foundation-aid formula. 4 These kinds of things greatly affect school 5 districts' ability to comply and effectively phase 6 in these educational reforms that we're talking 7 about here today. 8 They're acutely felt by small rural school 9 districts throughout the state. 10 They also -- what they do is, they entrench 11 and they somewhat exacerbate the gap in educational 12 opportunities from school district to school 13 district. 14 Right now, there are school districts, some 15 school districts in New York State, saying, How do 16 we identify and plan for every student that needs 17 academic intervention services, to get those 18 services? 19 There are other school districts on the other 20 side of the continuum that are saying, We don't have 21 the resources to provide AIS to every kid we're 22 mandated to provide these services to. 23 Some school districts are planning right now 24 to provide bifurcated high school programs for 25 English and mathematics, so students will be 1 prepared to take two types of Regents examinations 2 at the end of the 13-14 school year. 3 Some school districts are saying, We have 4 resources for one roof. That's what we're going to 5 be doing. 6 In terms of college- and career-readiness, 7 that is actually the basis and the goal of the 8 education reforms that we're talking about. 9 We first started hearing about this in 2010. 10 And it's interesting that, as of today, I've 11 never really seen an operational definition of what 12 "college- and career-readiness" is. 13 It's loosely understood by many people, and 14 we would submit, it's a concept that needs some 15 reworking. 16 It is counterintuitive to us, that there 17 would be one threshold for students to successfully 18 transition from high school to a college program, 19 regardless of the college program they're interested 20 in. 21 It's counterintuitive to us, that there is 22 one threshold for students to successfully 23 transition from high school to career. 24 And the idea that 35 percent of students are 25 graduating from high school college- and 1 career-ready does not match up to our reality. 2 We think that the basis upon which that was 3 calculated is erroneous and should be reexamined. 4 Going one step further, to tell you the 5 truth, we empathize with the concerns that you 6 raised earlier. 7 As we go through this transition for 8 high school students, we are concerned that, as we 9 go through the transition, that, nevermind 10 successful transition to college; that the high 11 school graduation rate will go down, that the 12 high school dropout rate will go up. 13 And we're also concerned, as we go through 14 the transition time, how will New York State's 15 high school graduates compete against graduates from 16 other states that have not so quickly phased in 17 their Common Core assessments at the high school 18 level when they're competing for acceptance in the 19 highly competitive colleges? 20 We support the transition to the higher, the 21 more rigorous Common Core standards, but you've got 22 to keep in mind that this is a multi-faceted 23 process. 24 Beyond the adoption of standards, there's the 25 development or the adoption of curriculum. 1 Then there's the purchase or adoption of 2 instructional materials. 3 Then there's the transition to Common Core 4 pedagogy. 5 And then there's extensive professional 6 development and local monitoring systems that have 7 to be put in place to make sure that it's done with 8 fidelity. 9 This has been done in a very uneven way 10 during the 2012-13 school year, and for good reason: 11 certain parts of the state were hit with 12 catastrophic weather events. 13 School districts across the state had very 14 different personnel and financial resources to 15 implement these reforms. 16 And the State Education Department, as late 17 as August of 2012, was then rolling out curriculum 18 materials and instructional materials, with the 19 intent that they would be implemented during that 20 school year, when it's too late. 21 It's too late to do that in many of those 22 school districts. 23 Going on from there, APPR, I'll tell you, I'm 24 very proud of school administrators around the 25 state, because they have done a yeoman's job of 1 doing all of these education reforms, the APPR, 2 et cetera, that's been put on their plates. 3 75 percent of school administrators that 4 responded to a survey said they did not receive 5 timely, helpful information from the State Education 6 Department needed to phase in those reforms. 7 77 percent of the school administrators 8 reported that, not only did they not get any help 9 from the school districts, not only did they not get 10 any refinement or adjustment of their work 11 responsibilities in their school districts; in fact, 12 on the other side of the continuum, in many cases, 13 assistant principals, deans, supervisors, were 14 excessed, because of the financial challenges that 15 they were facing. 16 Nonetheless, the State Education Department 17 fully expects that the APPR will have employment 18 ramifications, despite the fact that it was phased 19 in in a faulty sort of way. 20 For example, their chief architect of the 21 state of the APPR, or, the State Assessment System, 22 Kristen Hull [ph.], on March 11th did a detailed 23 presentation to the Board of Regents and SED 24 leadership, explaining in great detail, how the 25 2012 and 2013 3-to-8 results are not comparable. 1 Nonetheless, they were compared. 2 And then the State Education Department said, 3 That's okay, because we're going to put in an 4 additional layer of comparison, and that will make 5 the invalid, unreliable data, valid and reliable. 6 Some people call that "voodoo mathematics." 7 To your point about the testing, and I know 8 that you raised it in Long Island, because I was 9 there as well, and here's the answer to your 10 question: 11 Virtually every school district is doing more 12 testing today than they were four years ago. 13 But the other part of the answer is, what is 14 being done in one school district is different than 15 what's being done in another school district, and 16 many times within the same school district, what's 17 being done for two different students at the same 18 grade level may be different as well. 19 So there is no clean answer to that. 20 The other part of the equation is this: For 21 the state assessments themselves, the end game is 22 college- and career-readiness. 23 That's what it's all about. 24 Not Common Core alignment, because that's 25 just part of college- and career-readiness. 1 So the answer -- the question is, When have 2 we arrived? 3 Because, in 2010, the cut points were 4 adjusted. 5 Why? So that there would be alignment with 6 college- and career-readiness. 7 In 2010, the ELA scores, the proficiency rate 8 dropped 24 points. 9 The mathematics proficiency rate dropped 10 25 points. 11 That lasted three years, because we all know 12 now, in 2013, we had new tests that were aligned. 13 Why? For Common Core alignment, and, 14 college- and career-readiness. 15 Again, for ELA, the proficiency rate dropped 16 another 24 points. That's 48 points altogether. 17 The mathematics proficiency rate dropped 18 34 points. That's 59 points altogether. 19 So the question is, Have we arrived? 20 And the answer is, I don't know. 21 Because here's where I'm coming from: What's 22 going to happen in 2014-15, when the 23 PARCC assessments that you just heard about are 24 going to be administered? 25 We get different answers from the 1 State Education Department as to whether those tests 2 must be done on computer-based, or whether there 3 would be some breakout in terms of doing it 4 paper-and-pencil and computer-based. 5 But what we're saying is this: Is that going 6 to be, flip over the Etch-A-Sketch, here we have a 7 new baseline again? 8 Should we be expecting that student 9 performance is going to be declining again? 10 We don't know. 11 But here's the bigger question: What's going 12 to be happening for high school students in 14-15? 13 Because the reality is, we've done two 14 recalibrations of the 3-to-8 tests already, haven't 15 we? 16 We've never done a recalibration of the 17 Regents exams. 18 Never. 19 And I've heard stories about students, just 20 2013, middle-school students who successfully 21 completed the Regents examination in mathematics, 22 but didn't pass the Common Core test in mathematics, 23 for eighth grade. 24 What's going to happen when these tests are 25 done for students, in terms of graduation rates, in 1 terms of post-secondary-education opportunities, 2 et cetera? 3 I want to share one thing with you: There is 4 an alternative. 5 There's an alternative model, and you know 6 who's doing it? The State Education Department. 7 Because, during the current school year, in 8 January 2014, there will be a new test administered. 9 The test was actually developed by CTB/McGraw-Hill 10 for the high school equivalency program. 11 The test is called the "Test Assessing 12 Secondary Completion." 13 There's a three-year contract with 14 CTB/McGraw-Hill, so that during, over a three-year 15 period, those tests will evolve to become 16 Common Core-aligned, because there is no capacity 17 right now to administrator all those tests based on 18 computers. 19 The full expectation is 100 percent of those 20 tests will start off being administered, 21 pencil-and-paper, and will evolve as capacity 22 evolves, so that they will become computer-based. 23 In closing, I'd just like to say: 24 We all are interested in doing what's right 25 for kids. 1 We want to do everything that we can to 2 ensure their success in post-secondary-education 3 opportunities that are commensurate with their 4 interests and commensurate with their abilities. 5 But as opposed to the State Education 6 Department motto of, "Gee, we're kind of building 7 this plane as we're flying it," I would propose we 8 think about the Hippocratic oath. 9 "First, do no harm." 10 Thank you. 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Jim, it may just be me, 12 but I think you and David McMahon should probably 13 stop drink Jolt Cola in the afternoon. 14 [Laughter.] 15 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Your passion is obvious, 16 and it's real and sincere. 17 So, Senator Seward. 18 SENATOR SEWARD: Yeah, Jim, the next time, 19 would you please tell us how you really -- how 20 you're really thinking here. 21 But, I appreciate all of your associates 22 coming; and, particularly, Tim Heller from Groten, 23 and Russ Kissinger from Mount Markham. 24 They come from a certain Senate District at 25 those schools. 1 We're delighted to see you. 2 It's pretty obvious we're talking about here, 3 in terms of the testimony that Jim provided, a real 4 disconnect between the principals who are really 5 key, you know, in the buildings throughout the 6 school districts, and the State Education 7 Department. 8 Some of the communication that our Chairman 9 asked other witnesses today, I think we got the 10 answer, your answer, in terms of a real disconnect 11 between SED and the building principals around, at 12 least in the districts represented here today. 13 Is that -- 14 PAUL GASPARINI: That's correct. 15 SENATOR SEWARD: -- fair to say? 16 PAUL GASPARINI: That's correct. 17 Senator Seward, Paul Gasparini, from 18 Jamesville-Dewitt High School, which is a suburb 19 east of Syracuse here. 20 I wanted to just let the Senate know, and 21 then respond to something you asked to an earlier 22 witness before the Committee. 23 There have been -- our math department chair 24 has been at Jamesville-Dewitt High School since 25 1997. 1 In that time, she has overseen four different 2 curricular changes. 3 She started with the math; course one, course 4 two, course three, curriculum for math, and moved to 5 Math AB; then it moved to the integrated algebra, 6 integrated geometry, and Algebra II Trigonometry 7 that we now have; and now it's Common Core. 8 So in 15 years, we've had four different 9 curriculum changes. 10 It's very difficult to assess how effective 11 any of them have been, when somebody who started in 12 kindergarten, a kid has been going through school, 13 there's been four curriculum changes for that 14 student. 15 That's a real concern. 16 I really appreciated your question earlier 17 about the modules, and the concern about modules. 18 I think everybody who testified earlier today 19 did a very nice job, but I do take issue with some 20 of the answers about that. 21 The problem -- you know, people say fear, or 22 fear of change, et cetera. 23 That's not it at all. 24 I think, Senator Flanagan, you said in an 25 earlier testimony, you talked about how important, 1 how high stakes, the Regents exams are. 2 Our algebra teachers today, "today," have no 3 idea, "no idea," what the test their students are 4 compelled to take in June of next year looks like. 5 They have no idea what it looks like. 6 And the only reason they're hewing as closely 7 to the modules as they are, is because that's the 8 only road path that they have, the only guidepost 9 that they have, to that end. 10 Nowhere else, "nowhere else," in education. 11 And if I did that as a principal, said, Okay, 12 we'll just drib and drab the curriculum out, and 13 I won't so show you the test till the end, our board 14 of education would have me fired. 15 That would never happen. 16 And I think that that's the biggest problem 17 now, is that our teachers are told they have to go 18 down this path, but they're given no direction on 19 where the path leads. 20 And that's, for me, the biggest concern we 21 have with the algebra and the modules right now. 22 SENATOR SEWARD: Just a quick follow-up. 23 In terms of, what's the answer here? 24 Is it a -- more of a phased-in approach? 25 Is that what you're suggesting is the answer? 1 Is it -- 2 PAUL GASPARINI: Yes, I would say that -- 3 SENATOR SEWARD: -- we've gone too far, too 4 fast? 5 PAUL GASPARINI: -- the building of the 6 airplane in the air, I would say it in a different 7 way: That we're building a skyscraper, and we're 8 starting on the tenth floor. 9 I mean, if you really want to have a 10 successfully integrated curriculum all the way up, 11 you start with kindergarten, and you work your way 12 through. 13 I do not know why that that is not happening. 14 I honest to God don't. 15 And then you will have a very articulated, 16 well-scaffolded, strong infrastructure for 17 education. 18 Building an education infrastructure takes 19 time. 20 You can't just say, Here it is, and it's all 21 built in a year. 22 SENATOR SEWARD: What would you say to the -- 23 and I'm not disagreeing with you at all, because 24 I think, you know, I have concerns about too far, 25 too fast, myself. 1 But, what would you say -- I assume that if 2 the department is still here, they would counter and 3 say, Well, what about those students, first through 4 twelfth grade, that are going to miss out on this 5 more rigorous program that would better prepare them 6 for both college and career? 7 PAUL GASPARINI: As I say, it's changed 8 4 times over 15 years. 9 TIMOTHY HELLER: They've already missed out. 10 So, in this past year's administration of ELA 11 and math, starting in third grade, the State is 12 assuming that the children have had the past 13 three years of background information. 14 You can't backfill that in a year, so, 15 they've already missed the boat. 16 So now we have to play catch-up, and the 17 further the children are along that path, my last 18 grade is fifth grade, so I have fifth-graders who 19 have missed those first four or five years of 20 foundational skills. 21 You can't make that up, so they're always 22 going to be behind. 23 And the teachers are struggling with, Okay, 24 which dart do I throw on the dart board to get 25 closest to where I need to be? 1 SENATOR SEWARD: I know the hour is getting 2 late, but, Mr. Chairman, one more comment or 3 question here. 4 When you say "they've missed out," I hope you 5 don't mean -- they may have missed out on that 6 particular set of goals, but not missed out on a 7 good education in New York State. 8 TIMOTHY HELLER: No, no, you're right. 9 I'm talking about -- 10 SENATOR SEWARD: You know, we don't want this 11 a condemning the great work that our public schools 12 do. 13 TIMOTHY HELLER: No, no. 14 SENATOR SEWARD: At least the ones I'm 15 familiar with in my area. 16 MAUREEN PATTERSON: But there are districts, 17 like Liverpool, which is really somewhere between 18 Fayetteville-Manlius, in terms of a wealth ratio, 19 and Syracuse schools, in terms of their poverty 20 ratio, that have jumped in. 21 We jumped in even before the Common Core were 22 adopted. When they were in draft version, we 23 created all kinds of data-point assessments so we 24 could monitor where our students were, K through 12, 25 so that we weren't doing anything with our students 1 that they wouldn't miss out on an education as we 2 went along. 3 We've had data systems all along, we've been 4 teaching our teachers. 5 And I'll tell you, frankly, it's been between 6 the administrators and the teachers who have created 7 a very collegial relationship, and worked together 8 on the evaluation system, worked together on the 9 data systems, worked together to make it happen, 10 because the kids are always the ones that sit in the 11 center of the table for us; for not just our school 12 district, but for all of our school districts. 13 So, they're not missing out on anything, but 14 do we believe they will be penalized down the road? 15 Very concerned about the algebra assessment 16 that's coming out. 17 If those scores drop by that much next June 18 for our math students, that will be that many more 19 students that will need remedial work in summer 20 school, another year of math, and it's also one of 21 the first gauntlets that they have to face heading 22 off to graduation. 23 And I'm concerned that that four-year cohort 24 is not going to be able to graduate in a timely 25 manner because their assessments changed. 1 Their instruction has been changing all long 2 as we have beefed up the rigor over all of the 3 years. 4 But as the assessments have changed, and we 5 have been forced to use those now for students, but 6 this past year, for our teachers, to identify 7 teachers' strengths and weaknesses. 8 We do that in our evaluations. We do that 9 every single day when we work with our teachers. 10 So, the system does need to slow down, and it 11 needs to become more focused, and to be listening, 12 not only to principals and assistant 13 superintendents, but also to our students. 14 RUSSELL KISSINGER: I think one of the pieces 15 in my school, as you know, 58.7 percent of my kids 16 in the high school alone are on free and reduced 17 lunch. 18 In the 10 years I've been there, we've moved 19 up, finally, past the 90 percent graduation rate 20 last year. We've moved up about 20 points, despite 21 it being a more rigorous criteria to get a high 22 school diploma. 23 We've just introduced six advanced-placement 24 classes this year. 25 We had honors classes over the last couple of 1 years, building confidence in the students and the 2 staff, of academics. 3 If we roll out a Common Core algebra test and 4 the kids don't do well on it, the confidence in 5 those kids right now is very, very fragile, they may 6 not move on to geometry, trigonometry, and calculus. 7 They may say, I'm clearly no good at math. 8 And we're going to slide backwards, and 9 that's my biggest fear. 10 I put that test in front of my kids, they're 11 gonna say, "I can't do it." 12 TIMOTHY HELLER: I also have parents 13 reporting that their children, who have always loved 14 school, and have always loved math in particular, 15 don't want to come to school anymore. 16 It's that aggressive for them to be 17 successful. 18 SENATOR SEWARD: Thank you for your input. 19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Tkaczyk. 20 SENATOR TKACZYK: I just have to follow up on 21 what you just said, and what Jim said earlier, about 22 "do no harm." 23 When we did our public forum in Albany, we 24 had a student, a 12-year-old, who talked about what 25 it was like to take these tests. 1 And he said: What I learned in Boy Scouts 2 is, the thing with first day, do no harm. 3 He said: I think that's what's going on 4 here. Please do no harm. It's very stressful and 5 discouraging, and we're so frustrated, and we don't 6 understand why we're taking all these tests, because 7 we want to learn. 8 I think it was just really -- I'm really 9 struck by, you know, the student said the same thing 10 you just described. 11 And I know the hour is late, but I -- and 12 I have to leave after you're all gone, but I think 13 we have to respect that you're all leaders in the 14 educational system. 15 And I think what -- what I don't see 16 happening is, you're goal-oriented; you need to know 17 what the goal is. 18 And to me the goal is, getting kids college- 19 and career-ready, and are you able to do that? 20 It might mean different things on how you get 21 there in the different schools, because of what 22 you're dealing with. 23 So I just wanted to you comment on, what 24 would you do to get your kids more college- and 25 career-ready, and do you have the resources to move 1 in that direction? 2 Or, are we spending so much focus on the 3 testing and resources on the assessments, that we're 4 not really able -- are you able to focus on the 5 college- and career-ready goal that is really behind 6 all of this? 7 MAUREEN PATTERSON: I think our high schools 8 are focusing on that. 9 And I know Paul can speak to that as our 10 high school principal, too. 11 But our high school has talked for years 12 about restructuring, and really looking at those 13 smaller learning communities, so that we can focus 14 our children's strengths and their needs, and adjust 15 academically. 16 But, we heard Sharon Contreras talk about the 17 mental-health issues that are out there. 18 We need to address those also, before we let 19 them leave the world, when they walk across the 20 stage. 21 And then we have to give them all kinds of 22 internships and partnerships. 23 And, right now, no, we don't have a lot of 24 that time, to be able to find the other resources to 25 do that. 1 One of the resources I think that is truly 2 missing, is the sharing between school districts. 3 Many of us in the area do that together on 4 all of these initiatives, moving forward, but we 5 need to do that in particular, looking at the 6 college- and career-readiness for our students. 7 How are they doing in it one school district? 8 How can we do that? 9 And it shouldn't just start in ninth grade. 10 We should be talking about kindergartners, 11 and what are those soft skills that they need, 12 moving through school, to cooperate, and learn how 13 to speak to each other, and then they're ready to 14 make some of those choices when they get to be in 15 high school. 16 PAUL GASPARINI: Yeah, one of the things we 17 did at -- we have a very high percentage of our 18 students go on to college. 19 We're very blessed in that regard. 20 Over the course of the past 10 years, we've 21 gone from, I think the number is about 88 students 22 taking 150 AP exams, to, we have nearly 256 students 23 now taking 435 AP exams. 24 So we've been pushing rigor long before the 25 rigor thing became the bell-ringer at SED. 1 The issue that I have, as a former 2 social-studies teacher, is my concern that, you 3 know, we've had public schools in the United States 4 for nearly 220 years. Right? 5 And one of the things that's been constant 6 about our country over those 220 years, demographics 7 have changed, our whole -- the way our country looks 8 have changed, our economy's changed; but what hasn't 9 changed, is that we're a democracy. 10 And I very much am extraordinarily concerned 11 that we are losing focus in schools, and teaching 12 students to be good citizens, to being good role 13 models, to grow up to be leaders, and involved with 14 their community. 15 And sometimes this drive, whether anybody -- 16 people don't like to say it, but it's a drive 17 towards testing, sometimes I think takes away from 18 the big picture about what is important for us as a 19 nation. 20 And that's our concern at times. 21 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Pretty hard to follow with 22 that answer. 23 I have a couple of things. 24 I certainly appreciate, again, your patience, 25 and the time that you've spent listening to your 1 colleagues in education. 2 I'm asking this somewhat rhetorically, but 3 I would appreciate your response, and you have to be 4 careful. You can't throw anything up here. 5 One of the things that I have heard, kind of 6 tangentially, is a lot of consternation about the 7 time that's involved in doing observations and 8 evaluations. 9 And I have had some people, parents, 10 basically say to me, like, What were they doing 11 before? 12 Wasn't that part of your responsibility? 13 Weren't you supposed to be observing and 14 evaluating before? 15 I mean, I think I know the answer, but, 16 frankly, hearing your response to that. 17 You know, in the past, was it 10 percent of 18 your work, and now it's, like, 37 percent? 19 Or was it just -- is it something now that's 20 far more aggravating because of paperwork? 21 RUSSELL KISSINGER: I'll tell you one of the 22 big differences for me, is exactly what Paul just 23 said. 24 I build a lot of rapport with my students and 25 I got to know them really well, in the hallways and 1 the cafeteria, outdoor in the playing fields to 2 watch them play sports. 3 That's cut back so much now, because I'm in 4 my office doing that paperwork. And the kids don't 5 know me like they used to. 6 And I think that's going to have some really 7 negative ramifications down the road. 8 TIMOTHY HELLER: It's about six to ten hours 9 per teacher, per observation. 10 And for non-tenured teachers, I have 11 two observations and two walk-throughs to do. 12 Okay? 13 I'm it, in the building. 14 I have an associate principal who also 15 doubles as the CSE Chair. 16 That -- we spend a lot of our time doing 17 minutia. 18 I have teachers who will tell me, I would 19 much rather you come in my room more frequently, and 20 just come in, than have to go the dog-and-pony show. 21 And that's what they feel like it is. 22 MAUREEN PATTERSON: It was also learning a 23 new system, because we now show -- chose have the 24 rubrics to do, and we had to fill those out in a 25 different way, and think about evaluating someone in 1 a different way. 2 So for the last couple of years, we've 3 learned that new system. And then we put it up with 4 technology, and we've had to learn that system, for 5 us first, and then to teach all the principals and 6 the teachers how to participate in that. 7 One of the things, at the end of the year, is 8 that every teacher had what we call the "reflective 9 rubric conference" with their principal. 10 And the principals ended up having to 11 schedule about an hour and a half with every 12 teacher. 13 It ended up to be wonderful time spent, and 14 great conversations, but it was also time that both 15 sides spent preparing for that. 16 And they might have been able to do some of 17 that in a different way, and had those conversations 18 in smaller spurts over the course of the year; or, 19 perhaps, done their observations in a different way, 20 so that they really did save the time for the good 21 conversations, that could happen one-to-one, that 22 doesn't say, Here's what your number is, but here's 23 what your strengths are. 24 SENATOR FLANAGAN: One last question, a 25 two-part. 1 You heard me ask this before, so, on the 2 scale of 1 to 10, where would you put State Ed's 3 effectiveness in terms of communicating in the 4 field? 5 And, correspondingly, if you could -- within 6 reason, of course, if you could each say, Here's one 7 thing I would like to see changed coming out of 8 State Ed, what would it be? 9 TIMOTHY HELLER: I would give them a "4." 10 And one thing that I would ask, is that they 11 come and see people in the trenches, and see what 12 the day is really like. That we're not sitting 13 around eating bonbons. 14 MAUREEN PATTERSON: I would give them a "4," 15 only because we have spent a lot of time going there 16 instead, and getting right in front of them, being 17 part of trainings, or going to the meetings that Jim 18 holds with them, and being able to bring that back. 19 So that's the only reason I think they've 20 been even that responsive to us. 21 And I have to agree with you, they need to 22 come out. 23 We invited State Ed to come out last year, 24 and it took about six months before anybody even 25 showed up in our school district, to really walk in 1 to see what our students were doing and what our 2 teachers were doing. 3 RUSSELL KISSINGER: I'd say probably a "3." 4 I think their communication is a complex topic. 5 They talk to us, they talk at us. 6 I don't think they're listening to us. 7 And I think it's a big part of communication. 8 And I'd have to agree, I'd like for them to 9 come out, and we've asked them many times, to see 10 what it is that we're doing, and to see what our 11 teachers are doing. 12 You know, our teachers are crying; literally, 13 crying. They have no idea what to do next. 14 In my district, we've lost so much. 15 It is me. 16 There's a superintendent, there's me. 17 And there's principals in the middle school 18 and elementary school. 19 We build the APPR plan, we build the 20 Common Core, we do all the training. 21 We do all of it, and we do it as best as we 22 possibly can, given the direction from SED. 23 I don't know if they realize that. 24 I'd like them to understand what we do. 25 I'd like for them to come in and see what 1 we're doing. 2 PAUL GASPARINI: I give SED a "3" for the 3 reasons that I explained earlier, about the rolling 4 out of the modules, and kind of going blind forward 5 on this, the algebra; moving toward the algebra 6 Regents. 7 No one has any idea of what that assessment 8 looks like. 9 I think that's a big problem. 10 That being said, I think your average 11 person -- and I -- you know, I have kids, too, and 12 I have kids who are in school, not in the school 13 district in which I work. 14 When I look to hear things from the school, 15 I look for the school district. 16 I don't look for SED. 17 I don't consider SED the school district. 18 I want to hear from -- and we operate on that 19 philosophy, too. 20 If people -- if the parents of the students 21 in my school want to know anything, they're calling 22 us. They're calling the counselors, they're calling 23 the assistant superintendent. 24 Mostly, they're calling the building 25 principals and assistant principals. 1 So I think our school districts are doing 2 well, and really are aware of communicating with the 3 public. 4 The one thing I would change, to answer that 5 question, is I think that the New York State data 6 dashboard is an enormous boondoggle and waste of 7 money. 8 I think you're rolling out $60 million for 9 this, which is a redundant system. 10 All of our school districts have systems that 11 communicate with parents, all -- in which 12 students -- parents can get their kids' grades via 13 an online system, whether it's SIS Grade Book, or 14 whatever. 15 We have all of the data about student 16 testing. 17 We have all of the students' records. 18 It is all available, and there. 19 And the New York State data dashboard making 20 districts buy into another system, in which they 21 already have that information, is a redundancy. 22 Race To The Top is supposedly paying it 23 for -- for the first year. I hear it's about 24 $60 million. 25 After that, my understanding is, that's 1 another cost on school districts, and we're paying 2 for the same thing twice. 3 I think that's had an enormous waste of 4 money. 5 And if I had a recommendation, I'd say to 6 move away from that. 7 SENATOR FLANAGAN: We've had extensive 8 conversations with Ken Wagner, and the folks who do 9 that work, on that very issue. 10 But, two things -- well, three. 11 One, thank you. 12 Two, I don't need to be his spokesperson, but 13 I do have to say Commissioner King travels a 14 tremendous amount. 15 He has been around -- I know he's been out in 16 my area. I think I've taken him on at least 17 3 visits, and I'm one of 63 members. 18 So, I know he's out there traveling. 19 The disconnect may be in terms of what 20 happens as a result of this. 21 But on a slightly humorous note, hopefully, 22 when I'm asking on the scale of 1 to 10, I think 23 back to being in school, and I believe everyone can 24 appreciate this: 25 My parents were never as much concerned about 1 the grade I got, as they were about the number that 2 went with it. 3 If you got an A-3 as opposed to a B-1, "1" 4 being the better effort, I remember being chided 5 periodically by my father and my mother for, you 6 know, not having the best effort put forward. 7 So, maybe next time I ask that question, I'll 8 do it with a letter and a number, so... 9 [Laughter.] 10 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you very much for 11 your time. 12 MAUREEN PATTERSON: Thank you. 13 SENATOR FLANAGAN: David Little, New York 14 School Boards. 15 DAVID LITTLE: Senator, I can cut to the 16 chase. 17 "10" for listening, "1" for their response to 18 what they've heard, for a composite score of "5." 19 [Laughter.] 20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. 21 DAVID LITTLE: Okay? 22 [Laughter.] 23 DAVID LITTLE: They've -- the testimony that 24 I provided laid out a construct of an economic and 25 an educational, as well as a social and kind of 1 moral construct, and I don't want to get into the 2 specifics of that because, obviously, you know, you 3 can get to that. 4 I'll give you two short anecdotes that, 5 hopefully, will kind of focus us in on what's at 6 stake here. 7 When I -- the last thing I remember learning 8 in law school was at our law school graduation, when 9 Dean Josiah Blackmore, best name ever for a 10 law-school dean, said to us, "You will never know 11 more law than you do right now." 12 Over time, the breadth of that knowledge 13 drops off from recollection, the circumstances that 14 you apply it to change so that it's no longer 15 relevant, until what you're left with is a core 16 essence of the ability to find the knowledge, assess 17 it, put it in a rational context, extrapolate out 18 what you need, and communicate that in an effective 19 way to people. 20 That's the Common Core learning standards. 21 Okay? 22 What happened 30 years ago in law school, and 23 has served me well, is what's now being attempted in 24 the Common Core learning standards, where they've 25 recognized that in -- at an amazingly rapidly 1 changing environment, where business for 40 years 2 has always told us, "You're not producing employees 3 that are usable to us," well, of course not, because 4 business is a jet ski, while public education is a 5 cruise ship. 6 It takes us 17 years, hopefully, to get the 7 kid through the entire process, when, as they've 8 said, we have curriculum changes, we have business 9 changes. 10 Who would have ever thought that TWA wouldn't 11 exist today has a company? 12 Who'd think that the auto companies would 13 need to be bailed out? 14 Business changes too rapidly today for us to 15 plan for 17 years from now, what a student's going 16 to need in terms of content knowledge. 17 What they need to be able to do, is to be 18 able to access the information, figure out what 19 they're going to do with it, put it into a context, 20 and give it a usable form and be able to communicate 21 that. 22 So, I think, using my own son is probably the 23 best example that I can use here. 24 My younger son graduated from RIT. 25 When he applied to RIT, it was not his first 1 choice. And he was told by several colleges, You're 2 okay, but your school's not. 3 And I took offense, because I've been 4 president of that school. And when I left being 5 president of the school board at that school, we 6 were ranked the highest school district in 7 northeastern New York. 8 They were right. 9 Okay? 10 When he got to RIT, it took everything he had 11 for four years, not doing extracurriculars, not 12 doing the kind of undergraduate experience that you 13 would expect somebody to have, it took his entire 14 focus, and one trip to the hospital, just to get 15 through the program, because he wasn't prepared to 16 be there, even though he was an excellent student in 17 high school. 18 They're telling the truth when they say that 19 our kids aren't college- and career-ready. 20 Now, whether colleges and careers ought to 21 recalibrate according to what we can provide, that's 22 a whole other issue. 23 But this all started for him, and the reason 24 he's such a poignant example, is because he was in 25 the first class of fourth-graders that took the NCLB 1 test; the fourth-grade assessments. 2 Okay? 3 And the first thing that happened, was, I was 4 so excited when he was put into Mrs. Craney's [ph.] 5 class in the fourth grade, because, for years, she 6 had been known for being the teacher that really 7 immersed the kids in things; that really had 8 interactive experiences. 9 For Thanksgiving, they're the ones that did 10 the Native American and Pilgrim village in the whole 11 classroom. 12 In Danny's year, all that went out the 13 window, because they had to get ready for the 14 fourth-grade assessments. 15 And when he came back, learning what he had 16 gotten on those fourth-grade assessments, it stuck 17 with me for, what, probably 15 years now, he said, 18 "Daddy, I'm a '4.'" 19 Not, I got a "4." 20 Okay? 21 "I'm a '4'; meaning that he'd been 22 successful. 23 And to me, that's central to what we're 24 dealing with here, is that, to me, if kids are 25 nauseous over taking exams; if kids are coming home 1 identifying their own personality, identifying 2 themselves based on their performance on a test, 3 that's on adults. 4 We've transmitted our concerns into a child 5 that should never have those concerns. 6 If there are fourth- and third-grade 7 assessments going on, and we consider them to be 8 high stakes, all a third-grader should know is, it's 9 time for music, it's time for recess, it's time for 10 math, it's time for the test, and then we have 11 lunch. 12 Because there is no -- I defy anybody to tell 13 me what the high stakes are for a third-grader in 14 that high-stakes exam. 15 Okay? 16 That third-grader shouldn't know whether or 17 not there are high stakes to that test at all. 18 Okay? 19 So we have issues, and, certainly, the 20 state of New York spends an inordinate amount of 21 money on public education. 22 We spend $59 billion. 23 The entire United States of America spends 24 590. 25 So we're one of 50 states, but we're spending 1 10 percent of the money here. 2 Okay? 3 An amazing amount of money. 4 More than GE makes worldwide, more than many 5 countries in the world have as a gross domestic 6 product. 7 Okay? 8 An incredible amount of money; and, yet, we 9 have historically intractable pockets of 10 underperformance; a lack of academic performance 11 that's absolutely unconscionable. 12 To me, my colleagues in the ECB, all of whom 13 were sitting here over the course of today, just 14 yesterday, we put out a five-point plan for how to 15 support the Common Core. 16 I feel like the Dos Equis guy: We don't 17 always agree, but when we do, it's on the value of 18 the Common Core learning standards. 19 You know, and -- that, and the need for 20 funding, and to change the inequable nature in which 21 we fund, that, quite honestly, has doomed kids from 22 birth because of their ZIP code, to an inadequate 23 education; and, therefore, an inadequate future. 24 So, from my perspective, the things that we 25 need to do, and we don't have to enumerate them 1 here, but there are five points in that ECB program 2 for how we support the Common Core. 3 I think that SED needs to recalibrate 4 according to reality. 5 I understand why they don't want to look 6 behind them. This is a Satchel Paige moment. 7 They don't want to know what's gaining on 8 them. 9 They never planned to do this in the midst of 10 the worst economic recession that we've faced in our 11 lifetimes. 12 But the fact is, that trying to do this when 13 we're doing the 2008-2009 funding levels is an 14 astronomical undertaking. 15 And there are things that -- this is too 16 important to do badly. 17 Okay? 18 And I don't care whether it takes more time, 19 but, certainly, lost time is lost future for kids. 20 I know that it will take more money to do it 21 right, but the fact of the matter is, I asked my 22 colleagues in the ECB at a meeting this summer, 23 specifically, very directly and very poignantly, 24 because people were expressing all the kinds of 25 concerns that have been expressed here today, so 1 I said: 2 "What's Plan B? 3 "If we're not going to do this, from my 4 perspective, this is our generation's attempt, and 5 if we're not going to do this, what are we going to 6 do? 7 "What's Plan B?" 8 Nobody's got Plan B, other than to simply go 9 back and have each individual classroom do the best 10 job that they can, and have some kids succeed, and 11 have some kids, depending upon which teacher they 12 get, doomed for a generation again. 13 It can't happen. 14 Our state simply doesn't have the luxury, 15 because of our political instability, because of our 16 economic instability, right now. 17 And until we find the next best thing, we've 18 always had one thing in particular that's attracted 19 people to us, whether it's been the Port or the 20 Canal or the Industrial Revolution or Wall Street, 21 until we get to the next thing, whether that's 22 nanoscience, or whatever it is, the thing that we've 23 got is our people. 24 And right now, we're systematically 25 preventing large portions of our population from any 1 chance whatsoever of success in life. 2 And the high debt level that we have, the 3 high tax level that we have, is forcing our 4 college-educated kids out of here. 5 They're being replaced by an immigrant 6 population that is not as immediately able to 7 contribute to the economy. 8 It's a downward spiral, that unless we figure 9 this thing out, and unless we figure out a way to 10 equitably get the resources to those pockets within 11 our state that can't do it for themselves, and 12 unless we do it in an effective means, and if it's 13 not the Regents Reform Agenda, then we'd better 14 figure out what it is, because we don't have the 15 luxury of time. 16 New York State doesn't have it. 17 I just don't mean the sustainability of our 18 educational system; our public educational system. 19 I'm talking about the sustainability of our 20 state, and our state's economy. 21 We don't have the luxury of time to do this, 22 unless we figure out, if the Regents Reform Agenda 23 is not working, to me the Common Core does work, and 24 let's figure out how to recalibrate and go forward 25 quickly. 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: David, same question 2 I just asked all the administrators, if you could, 3 obviously, within reason, "State Ed, change this," 4 what would the one thing be? 5 DAVID LITTLE: I think the one thing -- they 6 do a phenomenal job of listening, you're absolutely 7 right. 8 I've been with the Commissioner three times 9 in the last week and a half at three different 10 forums. 11 You know, he listens phenomenally. 12 The department listens. 13 They don't do a good job of communicating 14 out, the absolute necessity of trying to do 15 something, of trying to improve the level. 16 You know, I think that, because of the 17 intractability -- the historical intractability of 18 the issues, I think they're daunted by what happens 19 in places like Buffalo, and others, obviously. 20 And I think that, until they get out into the 21 community, and take what they've learned and turn it 22 around and tell people why it's so important that 23 they're doing this, then I think people are focused 24 on the annoying aspects of this, rather than the 25 absolutely vital need to turn this cruise ship 1 around so that we actually start serving those 2 pockets. 3 Because, if we haven't gotten to the point, 4 in the next few years, of being able to raise the 5 achievement levels in those particular schools, 6 because, you're right, we have the best education 7 system in the world in this state. 8 We also have one of the worst, because of 9 this historic inequity that we have in our funding 10 system that makes it largely dependent upon the 11 resources of each individual community. 12 So I would say, get them out and let them 13 tell people why this is so important. 14 SENATOR VALESKY: Thanks, David. 15 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you very much. 16 Thank you for your patience. 17 Mr. Phillips. 18 Hang on one second. 19 [Pause in the proceeding.] 20 [The hearing resumed, as follows:] 21 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. Phillips, you have 22 been so patient, and here so long, you have now 23 grown a beard. 24 [Laughter.] 25 SENATOR FLANAGAN: But you look great. 1 BILL PHILLIPS: You know, as I was driving 2 here, I was trying to figure out exactly how you 3 were going to pick on my beard. 4 And, you finally found it. 5 Anyway, thank you for having me. 6 And, actually, thank you for hanging in 7 there. 8 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Our pleasure. 9 BILL PHILLIPS: I'm going to talk about two 10 things. 11 I'm going to talk about a very narrow 12 charter-schools issue, and then I'm going to talk -- 13 offer some general observations about the 14 implementation of the Reform Agenda. 15 So the narrow issue I want to talk about is 16 actually school closures, high-stake consequences. 17 I think it's important to talk about that 18 because, I am fairly certain, in all your hearings, 19 you're going to hear people be against high-stakes 20 consequences. 21 And I want to be clear, for chartering, it's 22 fundamental to chartering. 23 And that's why, as an organization, we've 24 actually supported the closing of, actually, our 25 member schools over a decade that didn't actually 1 meet the terms of their charter. 2 I'm going to talk about this a little bit 3 from the standpoint of the Regents, less so than 4 SUNY. 5 In New York, you have two major agencies for 6 chartering: SUNY and the Regents. 7 I'm going to talk about the Regents on this 8 issue. 9 Let me just briefly talk about just charter 10 basics. 11 So chartering is, the schools get more 12 autonomy, freedom and flexibility, for -- as a trade 13 for charter-based -- closure-based accountability, 14 and with these decisions, that should be made in a 15 timely fashion. 16 The charter is supposed to be five years. 17 Until last year, the Regents had never closed 18 a charter school for academic performance. 19 It had been mostly for compliance issues -- a 20 legal problem, financial problem -- but never for, 21 You said you'd do X with these children 22 academically, and you didn't make it. Sorry, we're 23 closing your school. 24 In the meantime, they've actually put more 25 rigorous metrics in place, but -- which is better, 1 but there's still issues that remain. 2 The problem that has now come up -- and, 3 actually, we support that the metrics are more 4 rigorous, but the problem that's come up, is they 5 now have seventy-six of them. 6 As in a charter -- the framework for 7 chartering is now measured on 76 items, and the 8 department has not been clear about what will 9 actually get you closed. 10 They're not going to hold the school -- it's 11 not a case of, if you don't get all seventy-six, 12 you're getting closed, but the problem is, the 13 department won't tell us whether or not, is it 14 forty? is it fifty? 15 Are academic metrics more important than the 16 other metrics? 17 How so? 18 We've asked them to be clearer on that, and 19 we just cannot get any clarity. 20 And so what we have now, is we have schools 21 that are coming up for renewal, and they don't 22 actually know what will cause them to be closed. 23 You know, there's a couple -- you know, 24 there's a couple of issues. 25 Where this typically pops up, as you can 1 imagine, is in the gray area; a school that's right 2 on the border. 3 The way that's historically been solved, is 4 you'll get what's known as a "short-term renewal." 5 You have a five-year charter. Nobody's 6 really clear as to whether or not you should get 7 more, so you get two years. 8 And what happens over time is, it goes, two, 9 two, two, they don't make a decision. 10 And that violates that third piece I talked 11 to you about, which was the timeliness. 12 What's frustrating about this right now, is 13 that there are other states that have, actually, 14 already solved this problem. 15 Other states are using what's known as "a 16 default-closure" approach, and here's the basic 17 trade: 18 The authorizer is very clear about what will 19 get you closed: 20 You have to meet this many metrics. 21 If you don't meet this many metrics, you're 22 not even allowed to apply. 23 I mean, literally, the school is closed. 24 It's actually fairer for both. 25 It's fair for the school, because the school 1 actually knows what matters; and it's better on the 2 authorizer, believe it or not, because the way it 3 works right now, the authorizer has to vote to close 4 the school. 5 A lot of our schools are in some pretty tough 6 places, where you're -- you are legitimately worried 7 that you're sending the kids to a worse place. 8 If you set the default closure up in advance, 9 essentially what happens is, the action takes place, 10 the school could still have an appeal, but now the 11 closure has been set. 12 And if there's an extra reason for an 13 exemption, then you make it. 14 But the point is, that the default is 15 towards, You didn't do what you said you would, 16 you're closed. 17 And that's fair to both. 18 To date, we've talked to the Regents and the 19 department about this, and they're just not open to 20 it. 21 Frankly, and I mentioned to you, because, 22 actually, SUNY has already done this once with the 23 UFT Charter School. 24 Our preference would be to fix this through 25 regulation. 1 I just think it's a more flexible approach. 2 But I'm telling you now, if we cannot get 3 some flexibility on this shortly, we're going to 4 come to you and ask for a legislative fix. 5 The reason I think this is important, is we 6 are talking about consequences. 7 And even though the charter sector is a 8 little bit different than the traditional-district 9 sector, in that, we say this: Closures are 10 fundamental. 11 You have some schools that are, obviously, 12 you have to deal with this. 13 And we have over 90,000 kids in charter 14 schools now, so there is, obviously, something that 15 can be learned from what we're doing. 16 I would like to talk, just briefly, about 17 some of the general observations. 18 So I think the best way I would put it, as it 19 relates to the Regents Reform Agenda, is I'm 20 actually surprised that anybody is surprised by all 21 this consternation. 22 I mean, let's just think of what we're doing 23 here. 24 We have five major leverage points going on 25 at the same time. 1 You have the Common Core standards; 2 You have the new testing; 3 You have the evals; 4 You have all the consequences hitting at the 5 same time in a context where you just had a 6 recession. You don't have money. 7 Frankly, my colleague who just spoke, David, 8 his explanation and his testimony, you know, I won't 9 repeat it, but if you want to get a better 10 explanation of everything I just said on those 11 five standards, he went through them beautifully. 12 I think the problem that we are having, is 13 that, either, you know, we've struggled to find -- 14 we've got these pressure points, but we've struggled 15 to find a pressure-relief valve. 16 Let me go through those -- a couple of 17 those -- well, and, actually, the reason it concerns 18 me is, I'm deeply concerned that the implementation 19 of the Common Core, the standards themselves, will 20 be conflated with and derailed by associated 21 implementation problems. 22 And I think this is where the Regents think 23 they have to have sense of priority, getting the 24 standards implemented and getting everybody used to 25 them, is far and away their most important task. 1 The other stuff is important, but we have to 2 start showing some flexibility. 3 Now, let me -- I want to take out a couple of 4 the pieces here so that we can just talk about what 5 I think is important. 6 First of all, I want to go at the money 7 first. 8 There is a chart -- the Regents had a 9 hearing -- I don't know if it was a hearing or a 10 presentation, two years ago, where they talked about 11 the financial pressures on public education. 12 And I think, in their report, there is a 13 chart that shows that, you know, the expenses bar 14 going one way, and the revenue bar staying flat. 15 That chart has terrified me for two years. 16 There's just a staggering gap between our 17 revenues and our expenses. 18 We agree, wholeheartedly, with the need for 19 equity. 20 I suspect we might debate with some of my 21 colleagues what "equity" actually means, but we 22 agree that there's got to be equity. 23 And I -- quite frankly, it's clear, the 24 current model, the current way we're educating kids, 25 is broken. 1 And, you know, I think we have to accept, in 2 the education community, that there's a lot of 3 pressure on the Legislature already. There's only 4 going to be so much you can do on finances. 5 I thought Tom Rogers said it well, when he 6 said, "We're going to have to do a better job with 7 what we have." 8 I know you're gonna try to get us more and 9 more every year, but, at some level, we're going to 10 have to do something different with what we have. 11 To be clear: I agree that the reasons were 12 right to move to the higher standards, as I've 13 already said. 14 And, I think I'm like a lot of my colleagues, 15 I actually think they did the right thing in doing 16 the testing early. 17 Now, there's a couple of reasons why I think 18 that makes sense. 19 The reason I think the testing early made 20 sense, it was a measure of how far along we were 21 with the implementation, with the curriculum that's 22 aligned to the standards, and the teaching practices 23 that we needed to align to the standards. 24 I think it is just human nature: you're not 25 as far as you think you are until you've actually 1 measured. 2 And, look, let's be clear, most of the 3 charters, you know, got hit just as hard as the 4 district schools, so this isn't us saying, Look, the 5 charter schools did great. What are you're all 6 worried about? 7 We struggled, too. 8 But I just think, until we publicly measured, 9 that sense of urgency just really, truly, wasn't 10 going to kick in. 11 The other thing that I think is also 12 important, is I think the Regents have gone out of 13 their way to say that this was a baseline year, and 14 that there shouldn't be consequences against schools 15 and teachers for this work. 16 Now, as you noted, Mr. Chairman, I've 17 actually listened to a lot of testimony today, so 18 there's clearly a disconnect in what the Regents and 19 Commissioner were saying, and what some of the 20 schools are saying. 21 I think that's a perfect place for the 22 Legislature to chime in. 23 I think the Regents are right to say this 24 year should be a baseline and there should be no 25 consequences, and I think the Legislature should 1 make sure that's actually what happens. 2 I think that's only fair. 3 Just to be clear, as it relates to charters, 4 we have some charters that up for renewal this year, 5 and in particular, I'm thinking of three schools 6 that were given one-year short-term renewals. 7 I don't actually know how we would use the 8 data from this test to make a decision. 9 And, quite frankly, I think any renewal that 10 comes up, any renewal that comes up where this 11 year's test data would be the determinative issue, 12 I don't know how you would vote to not renew it. 13 Want it to be very clear on one piece there, 14 I'm focused on the data there. 15 If a charter school has a financial problem, 16 or it has a legal irregularity, or it has, you know, 17 governance problems, that's a totally separate 18 issue, but if the data is the determining point, you 19 shouldn't be closing it this year, at least based on 20 this year's data. 21 Okay, just one final point about consequences 22 and time. 23 I mean, that's what I talk about when 24 I'm mentioning the baseline. I'm talking about 25 you've got time. That's probably one of the few 1 tools you have to move things. 2 In Long Island, I thought Senator Marcellino 3 and the Regent Tilles had a really thoughtful 4 conversation about some districts that were 5 struggling, as to what do you do with -- I mean, 6 I think talked -- they called them 7 "failing districts." 8 What I appreciated about the conversation, 9 was that there was an appreciation that we in the 10 education community, the Legislature, we can all do 11 everything, but there's just going to be some 12 districts and some schools that just simply do not 13 get better, or do not get better quick enough, and 14 there is a point where you have to do something more 15 dramatic. 16 I remember the Regent's response was about 17 changing of leadership, but then he noted one other 18 thing that I thought was interesting, which he said, 19 Well, you know, maybe the other thing you do is, you 20 let these kids go to magnet schools. 21 I would like to humbly suggest that they 22 could go to charter schools, and that we could, 23 actually, maybe start regional charter schools. 24 I'll tell you why I think this is actually 25 important. 1 There's been a lot of conversations about 2 consequences, and I think the reality is, that the 3 public can actually only take so much in terms of 4 consequences. They have to actually see some hope. 5 And so, really, the only two levers I can 6 think of, is that you actually either buy some time 7 to have some successes, or, you actually give them 8 better choices that they can go to. 9 That's my testimony. 10 SENATOR VALESKY: Just a couple of quick 11 points, actually. 12 BILL PHILLIPS: Sure. 13 SENATOR VALESKY: One question that I had, 14 you answered. 15 This issue of the default closure? 16 BILL PHILLIPS: Yes. 17 SENATOR VALESKY: So you are the working with 18 the Board of Regents and that the department, but if 19 that's not successful, you think a legislative 20 remedy might be necessary? 21 BILL PHILLIPS: Yes, I do. 22 SENATOR VALESKY: And that you would come to 23 us at that point? 24 BILL PHILLIPS: Correct. 25 We've had some closures that have came up, 1 that we gave suggestions as to how we thought we 2 could handle them. 3 The problem for the Regents, is they were 4 changing their standards in midstream, and so you 5 had schools that had started under one set, and 6 ended up under another. 7 And I thought the fairest thing would have 8 been to actually just buy them some time, and 9 actually just make really clear standards, and say 10 You're automatically closed if you didn't hit them. 11 And that was not accepted, and the Regents 12 got sued. 13 And I think they'll get through that, but 14 I just think it's the canary in the coal mine, quite 15 frankly. 16 And if -- and, so far, the suggestions 17 haven't really gone anywhere. 18 We will, obviously, try again. 19 Failing that, I will be visiting. 20 SENATOR VALESKY: Bill, the other thing I was 21 gonna raise, in terms of your comments in regard to 22 the baseline year as opposed to these assessments. 23 I'm not sure how the Legislature -- I think 24 you implied that the Legislature could have a role 25 in ensuring that that's the case? 1 I'm not sure how -- 2 BILL PHILLIPS: Well, essentially, people are 3 having a problem with -- they're having a -- 4 Excuse me, I didn't mean to interrupt you. 5 SENATOR VALESKY: No, go ahead. 6 BILL PHILLIPS: They're having -- what people 7 are having trouble with is consequences. 8 They're -- it's actually -- I don't think 9 people really have trouble with the data. 10 I think they have problems with that people 11 are being held accountable in ways that I think -- 12 you can make conceivable arguments that they're 13 being held accountable, employment-wise or school 14 existence-wise, based on a scenario that's not been 15 fair to them. 16 I think -- I mean, I heard the Commissioner 17 talk about how 80 percent of it was under the 18 control of the local school district. 19 I do actually think what you could do, is you 20 just -- I think it would be very easy to add 21 something in a piece of legislation that said, that 22 there will be no -- you know, there will be no 23 consequences. 24 List out the consequences based on this set 25 of data. 1 I would really hope you don't have to go that 2 far. 3 I feel the same way about the closure piece 4 as I do about that. 5 But at the end of the day, look, you all are 6 providing the pressure-relief valve. 7 You're asking the questions in your hearing, 8 and, clearly, you be wouldn't be having these 9 hearings if you weren't hearing a lot from the 10 public. 11 Right? 12 And so that's a -- you know, that's a very 13 blunt tool, but sometimes it's a necessary tool. 14 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you. 15 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And, listen, I would come 16 to Syracuse if Senator Valesky invited me anyway. 17 DAVID SYRACUSE: Dinosaur Barbecue, and all 18 that, I understand. 19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Paul knows, he's a 20 graduate, a proud graduate of [unintelligible] 21 Syracuse [unintelligible]. 22 Thank you for your patience, and your 23 comments. 24 BILL PHILLIPS: Sure. 25 I'm not leaving until you ask for the number. 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: [Unintelligible]. 2 BILL PHILLIPS: "7." 3 The reason I have them as a "7," is 4 I actually -- I deeply admire their vigor in 5 implementing the standards, and I thought it took a 6 lot of courage to do the testing piece, for which 7 they're, you know, taking a bunch of grief. 8 If you asked me one thing I would change, 9 their sense of urgency, it lacks humility. 10 And what I mean by that is, they have an 11 uncanny ability to pick -- they pick every fight. 12 And what I mean by that is -- so, for 13 instance, I'll give you a district example, and then 14 I'll give a charter example. 15 I recall a year ago, they were in a fight 16 with the Buffalo teachers, because the teachers 17 didn't want to be held accountable for performance 18 of kids that weren't in their -- that never showed 19 up. 20 I don't know how many kids we were talking 21 about or how many teachers, but I just -- that 22 seemed like a pretty reasonable concern. 23 And I couldn't understand why we couldn't 24 just sort through that, and we fought about that for 25 six months. 1 On the charter-school side, I don't know if 2 you realize this, but the -- well, they're asking 3 for data from schools as to how we evaluate our 4 teachers. 5 That is -- it's not contained in our charter, 6 so they're asking us to, essentially, manufacture 7 data so they can fill out a data component. 8 We have been very clear, that if a 9 charter school takes Race To The Top money, that you 10 have to play by their rules. 11 The charter schools actually had a choice, 12 and the ones that didn't choose, I -- it's offensive 13 to be asked to provide data that doesn't exist in 14 our charters just so that they can have a complete 15 data set. 16 It's offensive, and I think just bad policy. 17 We've been arguing about that for a year. 18 It just seems to me that we're -- you know, 19 as much as we have 90,000 kids, and maybe half of 20 the schools now are not doing the Race To The Top 21 piece, that's still -- seems to me it's a big old 22 fight for not a lot of kids, and there's got to be 23 better things to do. 24 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Very good comments. 25 Thank you. 1 BILL PHILLIPS: My pleasure. 2 SENATOR FLANAGAN: All right, last, but by 3 certainly no means least, we are joined by one of 4 our colleagues in the Assembly, 5 Assemblyman Anthony Brindisi, who has come to the 6 realization, based on today, that he will never run 7 for the Senate. 8 ANTHONY BRINDISI: This will be the shortest 9 testimony you've ever heard, Senator. 10 And I brought you an apple doughnut, because 11 I know it's a long day. We stole it from 12 Mayor Miner's office, so feel free to help yourself 13 to an apple doughnut from the local farmers market. 14 Again, Senator Flanagan, Senator Valesky, 15 thank you so much for being here in Syracuse today, 16 and allowing me to testify at the hearing. 17 Very briefly, I just want to shift focus a 18 little bit away from Common Core and the 19 Regents Reform Agenda, and talk a little bit about 20 the future of education policy in New York State. 21 And specifically what I would like to address 22 is, what I see as the need to create alternative 23 pathways to a high school graduation; and, 24 specifically, a career-and-technical-education 25 pathway, or, a CTE diploma. 1 I think we've all heard from manufacturers 2 across the state, they have this problem where they 3 have job openings, but they cannot find enough 4 skilled workers to find their job demands. 5 And in a state that's making big pushes into 6 nanotechnology, biosciences, advanced manufacturing, 7 as well as a state that still has a proud and long 8 history of traditional manufacturing, I think that's 9 a big problem. 10 For the last three years, since the 11 "Pathways To Prosperity" report from Harvard came 12 out, talking about the importance of CTE programs in 13 high schools, the Board of Regents has been studying 14 this issue. 15 We've gone through committees, blue-ribbon 16 panels. 17 Now there's talk of doing a symposium in the 18 fall, to look at how we can expand CTE offerings to 19 high school students. 20 But to me, other states are already acting. 21 You look at places like Massachusetts that 22 have vocational high schools. 23 You look at California which has 500 career 24 academies. 25 You look at Florida that has CTE pathways 1 that require students to get industry-recognized 2 certifications for graduation. 3 We're not moving fast enough here, and we see 4 a real middle-skills job gap opening up in 5 New York State. 6 So what I have done is, I've proposed 7 legislation. It's not introduced yet. 8 It already has 12 co-sponsors in the 9 Assembly, and we're looking for Senate sponsors as 10 well, to create a CTE pathway to a high school 11 graduation, or, a CTE diploma, which really 12 substitutes either electives or Core classes with 13 approved CTE-approved coursework. 14 You could graduate high school with an FAA 15 certification, or a Cisco-certified entry 16 networking-technician certification, which would 17 open the pathway up for eight different career 18 paths, whether it's computer-networking specialist 19 or computer web design. 20 The goal really is to increase the number of 21 students going into apprenticeships, and to help 22 students get into two-year community colleges to 23 advance their certification. 24 I think this is going to do wonders to help 25 reduce dropout rates in the state, and really help 1 boost our graduation rates, which we've been talking 2 a lot about today. 3 You know, for me, the time is now to act. 4 We've been studying this issue for a long 5 time. The Board of Regents has looked at this for a 6 long time. 7 I know it's not the usual way of doing 8 business in New York State. 9 Usually we get recommendations from SED and 10 the Board of Regents, and then we put it into 11 legislation, but, in this case, I think it's 12 incumbent upon us, as a Legislature, to step and up 13 act, and give a timeline to the Board of Regents and 14 SED to create a true CTE pathway. 15 Not another committee, not another 16 commission; let's get moving and create a pathway so 17 students can start graduating with a CTE diploma in 18 2015. 19 So, that's where we are right now. 20 That's the basis of my testimony. 21 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Is your point that we 22 should set up a timeline? 23 Or, we -- are you advancing the notion that 24 you want to say exactly what that CTE should do? 25 ANTHONY BRINDISI: I don't want to say 1 exactly. 2 I think there are experts in SED, I think 3 there are people out there smarter than I am, who 4 can develop the pathways. 5 I think, you know, we -- they're very close, 6 about a year ago, to implementing a CTE pathway, the 7 Board of Regents. 8 And what they were talking about doing, is 9 removing the "global studies in geography" Regents 10 and then implementing a CTE substitution. 11 They got a lot of pushback from the 12 global-studies lobby. 13 I didn't know we had a global-studies teacher 14 lobby, but we do, and they abandoned that, and they 15 put it back to their commission, and they've been 16 studying the issue ever since. 17 So, I don't want to develop the exact 18 curriculum. 19 I think we can look at what other states are 20 doing, and look to the "Pathways To Prosperity" 21 report that Harvard did, for some models that we can 22 implement here in New York State, but I think we 23 really need to gave a timeline to Board of Regents 24 and SED to move forward on this, because, like 25 I said, with nanotechnology moving west of the 1 Capitol District, with biosciences in the 2 Hudson Valley and Long Island, and with advanced 3 manufacturing making a big push back into the state, 4 we can't wait. 5 We really need to implement a 6 career-and-technical-education pathway for our 7 students so they can graduate, and then advance 8 their certifications on to two-year community 9 colleges. 10 The Syracuse Superintendent talked about the 11 50 students who shall be partnering with MACNY, the 12 Manufacturers Association, to get two-year degrees 13 before the students graduate -- when students 14 graduate high school. 15 Why not open that up to all students? 16 There's some students that, frankly, you 17 know, the Regents diploma is not meant for them. 18 It's, really, you know, they're more hands-on 19 learners, and we should give them a pathway to 20 receive a high school graduation. 21 Not sacrificing rigor. I understand we don't 22 want to dumb-down the curriculum, but we really need 23 to give a pathway for students who are going into 24 these advanced manufacturing jobs, which New York is 25 very big into right now. 1 We need to give them a pathway to graduate. 2 I brought an article from the 3 "Albany Business Review." 4 Last week, there was an insert in the 5 "Businesses Review," talking about growth and 6 change, and it's talking about the resurgence of 7 manufacturing in New York State. 8 And they profile a woman who had dropped out 9 of high school. She had bounced around different 10 jobs for about ten years. 11 And, then, finally, she took her GED, and she 12 got into Hudson Valley Community College, in the 13 manufacturing technical-assistance program, where 14 they have a 98 percent -- 98 percent of the students 15 graduating from this program are employed before 16 they graduate. 17 And they talk about the need for more skilled 18 workers in the state, but we just don't seem to be 19 moving fast enough to implement programs to do this 20 in our high schools. 21 SENATOR FLANAGAN: It certainly would require 22 a discussion with the Governor's Education Reform 23 Commission as well. 24 Assemblyman, we thank you. 25 And it's -- frankly, it's unusual to have one 1 of our Assembly colleagues at this fine hearing, but 2 I can tell you that the overarching reason that 3 you're here, is because Senator Griffo gave you the 4 green light. 5 ANTHONY BRINDISI: I heard. 6 And you have a wonderful evening to spend 7 with him, too, tonight. 8 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes. 9 ANTHONY BRINDISI: You can do it all again 10 tonight. 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: That's it. 12 For those who are still listening, and those 13 who are still in attendance, this concludes our 14 hearing for today. 15 We did start a little late, for which 16 I apologize again. 17 This is a 5 1/2 hour hearing. 18 All the testimony that will go up, I think it 19 will probably be up tomorrow, live, for anyone who 20 wants to watch a recorded version of this. 21 And we intend to continue to put the written 22 comments that we receive as part of record. 23 The next hearing is going to be in Buffalo on 24 October 16th. 25 We look forward to seeing people there. 1 And -- 2 SENATOR VALESKY: And before you bang the 3 final gavel, can I have one final minute? 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Well, I -- yes. 5 But I want to thank Senator Valesky for his 6 patience, and for all the good help. 7 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you. 8 I just wanted to take the liberty as the host 9 Senator, to giving you, Senator Flanagan, a grade of 10 "10" for your conduct of this hearing, and of your 11 commitment to this issue. 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you. 13 [Applause.] 14 SENATOR VALESKY: Thanks, everybody. 15 (Whereupon, at approximately 4:26 p.m., 16 the public hearing held before the New York State 17 Senate Standing Committee on Education concluded, 18 and adjourned.) 19 ---oOo--- 20 21 22 23 24 25