Public Forum/Town Hall Hospitality/Tourism Regulatory Reform - To Learn from Businesses and Industry Experts Which Regulations Are the Least Useful, Least Cost-Effective, And, Therefore, Should Be Eliminated

Howe Caverns (Howes Cave, NY) 14

Michael Hoffman 95 124 15 President

Turf Hotels (Albany, NY) 16

Jan Chesterton 95 124 17 President

NYS Hospitality Association (Albany, NY) 18

Cynthia Hollowood 95 124 19 General Manager

Holiday Inn (Saratoga Springs) 20

Mark Eagan 132 140 21 President

Albany-Colonie Regional 22 Chamber of Commerce (Albany, NY) 23 Scott Wexler 140 155

Executive Director 24 Empire State Restaurant and

Tavern Association (Albany, NY) 25 1 SENATOR MARCIONE: To those who have traveled 2 to be with us at today's forum, I want to say thank 3 you, and proudly welcome you to Saratoga County. 4 To our speakers, we are truly honored that 5 you all are here taking part in this important 6 forum, as we are likewise thankful for those 7 watching online, attending in person, and covering 8 this forum. 9 Before we go any further, I want to offer my 10 personal thanks to our gracious and wonderful host, 11 Quad Graphics, which has generously provided us this 12 wonderful auditorium as our venue for today's forum. 13 I'd like to let you know a little bit about 14 Quad Graphics. 15 They are a leading global provider of print 16 and multichannel solution for consumer magazines, 17 special-interest publications, catalogs, retail 18 inserts and circulars, direct mail, books, 19 directories, and commercial and specialty products, 20 with 50-plus print-production facilities on three 21 continents. 22 I want to recognize and thank Quad Graphics' 23 plant director, Dan Frankowski, for all of his 24 guidance, professionalism, and assistance with 25 today's forum. 1 Thank you for everything, Dan, and thank you 2 to everyone at Quad Graphics. 3 I'm Senator Kathy Marchione, and I represent 4 the 43rd Senate District which includes parts of 5 Saratoga, Rensselaer, Washington, and all of 6 Columbia County. 7 It's an honor for me to chair today's forum. 8 In addition to representing the 43rd Senate 9 District, I also chair the Senate's Administrative 10 Regulations Review Commission, known as "ARC." 11 ARC is a bipartisan joint legislative 12 commission comprised of Senate and Assembly members 13 that reviews state rules and regulations, and keeps 14 its eye on the 107 state agencies that issue 15 approximately 300 regulations every year. 16 All of those rules and regulations amount to 17 an incredible 22 miles of state-government red tape, 18 and truly pose a massive financial burden on our 19 economy, our localities, and our taxpayers; and, 20 truly, that's why we're here today. 21 Our forum is part of a historic statewide 22 effort by the Senate Majority Coalition to identify, 23 and then revise, a thousand rules, regulations, and 24 red tape, with our eye at cutting many of those. 25 This effort is being led by my colleagues 1 Senator Pat Gallivan and Senator Dave Valesky. 2 Senator Pat Gallivan chairs the Crime 3 Victims, Crime, and Correction Committee, and is 4 also the Deputy Leader of the Republican Conference 5 for Economic Development. 6 Senator David Valesky chairs the Commerce, 7 Economic Development, and Small Businesses 8 Committee. 9 We have already held public forums in 10 Buffalo, Watertown, Syracuse, Mineola, and now today 11 here in Saratoga County. 12 We have listened to the feedback, specific 13 feedback, about what state government can do to 14 start [sic] hurting and start helping businesses, 15 communities, and taxpayers, by delivering real 16 regulatory relief. 17 We will take what we've learned at these 18 hearings and assemble a comprehensive list of rules 19 and red tape that we feel must be revised or cut. 20 We will submit some of those to the Governor, 21 and create legislation to bring before our 22 colleagues. 23 Today we have an incredible lineup of 24 speakers, business owners and leaders, recognized 25 and respected voices always advocating for a 1 stronger economy, more jobs, and greater prosperity 2 for all New Yorkers. 3 This forum today will focus on how rules and 4 regulations impact New York's tourism and 5 hospitality sectors. 6 When I speak of these sectors, I refer to 7 hotels, resorts, conference centers, country inns, 8 bed & breakfasts, historical sites, chamber of 9 commerces, colleges, universities, and other 10 resources that make New York such a great place to 11 live, and certainly visit. 12 It's almost impossible to overstate the 13 importance of the tourism/hospitality sectors to 14 New York's economy, and more particularly, to our 15 Capital Region. 16 Tourism is New York's fifth largest 17 employment sector. 18 Tourism supports nearly 700,000 jobs 19 statewide, and the industry generates $16.6 billion 20 in wages in the year 2011. 21 Tourism and hospitality are 22 multi-billion-dollar industries in the 23 Albany-Saratoga regions, and 12 percent of this 24 region's employment is sustained by visitors. 25 But, we know that tourism and hospitality 1 industries are not immune to local, state, and 2 federal regulations, and many regulatory factors 3 decide whether or not tourism or hospitality 4 businesses will be successful. 5 Without question, New York's rules, 6 regulations, and red tape have a direct and 7 significant impact on the tourism and hospitality 8 sectors, and that is the reason why we want to hear 9 from our speakers today. 10 At this time, I would ask my colleagues for 11 their opening remarks. 12 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thanks, Senator. 13 Good morning, everybody, and thank you for 14 being here. 15 A recent U.S. Chamber of Commerce report 16 identified New York State as having the worst 17 business climate in the nation: 50th out of 50. 18 And it's no secret what leads to that. 19 We hear it all the time, I'm sure you hear it 20 all the time: taxes and regulations; the high cost 21 of doing business in this state. 22 So we do have -- we are trying to address 23 that. 24 Our colleagues are conducting a series of 25 similar hearings across the state on tax reform, 1 looking to present a package as we move into next 2 year's session. 3 And as Senator Marchione mentioned, we are 4 doing, likewise, conducting these industry-specific 5 hearings on regulatory reform; the idea being, 6 looking to identify those useless regulations, the 7 duplicative regulations, the regulations where the 8 costs greatly exceeds the benefit, the ones that are 9 outdated; the ones that contribute to keeping 10 businesses from coming here, that keep businesses 11 from expanding. 12 And we've learned a lot as we've conducted 13 our hearings so far, and we're anxious to learn 14 more. 15 And our goal, of course, is to identify a 16 minimum of 1,000 regulations, which is just a start, 17 to get rid of. 18 And you may think 1,000 is a lot, but when 19 you put it in context of the 22 miles of regulations 20 that we have, over 140,000 pages of regulations in 21 the state, it's hard to count them all, but if you 22 estimate them out, a reasonable estimate is around 23 750,000 -- three-quarters of a million -- 24 regulations that people have to contend with. 25 And we want to do something about it. 1 And so that's why we're here today, and we're 2 very grateful that you're willing to share your 3 stories and talk about your industry, and help us 4 dig down a little bit deeper to identify the things 5 that are impediments for you; and, likewise, the 6 people in the business of manufacturing, and 7 hospital, medical -- medical/hospital, high tech, 8 some of these other areas that we're taking on. 9 So we look forward to the testimony, and are 10 grateful that you are here. 11 And, hopefully, in the end, we'll be able to 12 do something positive about this. 13 SENATOR MARCIONE: Thank you. 14 Senator Valesky. 15 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you. 16 Senator Marchione, Senator Gallivan, it's 17 nice to be with both of you again. 18 Senator Marchione, I want thank you for 19 hosting this fifth hearing in our series. 20 Just a couple of quick points, and we'll get 21 right to it. 22 I think it's worth noting, on this second day 23 of a federal government shutdown, what this is 24 showing here in New York State is, in fact, that 25 we're doing the opposite of what is happening in 1 Washington, where it seems that nothing can get 2 resolved, and Democrats and Republicans, for 3 whatever reason, can't seem to work together and do 4 the people's business. 5 The Senate Majority Coalition is showing once 6 again that, in fact, we can work together and 7 address major issues that are of concern to the 8 people of New York State. 9 So I'm happy to continue to participate in 10 these hearings, and I'm confident, certainly based 11 on the first four that we've conducted, that we will 12 have more than enough information and data and 13 suggestions to prepare a very comprehensive report 14 later this year, and move forward as we head into 15 the 2014 legislative session. 16 Just a quick bit of housekeeping before 17 Senator Marchione calls up our first person to 18 testify. 19 If you did bring written testimony, we would 20 ask that you share that with us before you make your 21 presentation. 22 Don't feel that have you to read your 23 testimony, but we would also ask you to be as 24 specific as possible, as it relates to the tourism 25 and hospitality industry, as to those regulations 1 that are impeding your progress and not allowing you 2 to be as successful as we all want you to be. 3 So with that, Senator Marchione, I think 4 we're all set to start. 5 SENATOR MARCIONE: Thank you very much. 6 Our first speaker this morning is 7 Todd Shimkus. 8 He is the president of the Saratoga County 9 Chamber of Commerce. 10 And just a little about the chamber as he's 11 making his way forward: 12 The Saratoga County Chamber of Commerce has 13 2700-plus members who employ more than 14 67,000 people, predominantly in Saratoga County. 15 The Chamber provides a wide range of member 16 services, including but not limited to: 17 Leadership Saratoga, countywide tourism 18 promotion services, health insurance, the Energy 19 Alliance program, free small-business counseling, 20 and the best networking events in the 21 Capital Region. 22 The Chamber's mission is to initiate and 23 provide programs and services which will enhance 24 members' ability to successfully conduct their 25 business, and to enhance and promote a healthy 1 economy, making Saratoga County an ideal place to 2 work, live, and visit. 3 Thank you for being here. 4 TODD SHIMKUS: I'm going to have you 5 introduce me everywhere. 6 That's great. 7 Thank you, Senator. 8 And thank you, all of you, for the 9 opportunity. 10 And I want to just quickly touch on the 11 chamber's role in tourism. 12 We have a great partnership here in 13 Saratoga County between a number of different 14 organizations. 15 And I know that Mark Baker from the 16 City Center is here. 17 Todd Garofano from the Saratoga Convention 18 and Tourism Bureau is here as well. 19 And I believe Todd is testifying later. 20 And Saratoga County itself is also a partner 21 with us, as is the City, and we all collectively 22 work together to make sure we can drive tourism and 23 visits here. 24 The chamber's role is predominantly around 25 working with Saratoga County to market 1 Saratoga County as a great place to visit. 2 So we work with the transient visitors that 3 come here, and market predominantly in the 4 New York City, New Jersey, Connecticut, Baltimore, 5 Philadelphia area, to try to get those folks to come 6 up here year-round. 7 So we do -- we have a campaign every year, 8 about $500,000 total, some county funds through the 9 occupancy tax, some matching funds from 10 private-sector organizations, and a minimal amount 11 from "I Love NY." 12 It used to be a lot more, now it's a lot 13 less; and so, certainly, that's an item. 14 So let me give you the quick state of the 15 Saratoga County tourism industry. 16 It's strong. 17 It's, in fact, very strong. 18 All have you got to do is drive around and 19 you'll see. 20 Hotel occupancy is on the rise. 21 Revenue per available room, which is the key 22 benchmark that we like to follow, is on the rise. 23 Occupancy-tax collections in Saratoga County, 24 in 2012, were at a record high, so last year was a 25 good year as well. 1 A factor to note in these trends, is that the 2 tourism sector is not separated from all the other 3 sectors. 4 So, our tech sector, which has certainly 5 grown in the last two to three years, again, led by 6 global foundries, the hotels are impacted by that as 7 well, as are the restaurants. 8 We have a rising demand for commercial rooms, 9 or, rooms that are rented on a commercial basis. 10 So, it's short-term stays for employees 11 relocating to our area; 12 It's folks that are doing work with these 13 firms that are on sales calls; 14 And it's other companies that are just coming 15 for visits, and to kick the tires and see if 16 Saratoga is a good place for them to locate. 17 That's all driving our book of business at 18 hotels, up. 19 There are at least 10 new hotels -- let me 20 say that again -- 10 new hotels that are either 21 being built, proposed, or under consideration here 22 in Saratoga County. 23 That shows that investments are following 24 increased demand, and we're certainly happy to have 25 that. 1 In fact, I think if you were to ask local 2 hotels and restaurants what's their biggest concern 3 right now, it's the increase in competition that 4 they're getting from other restaurants and other 5 hotels that are expanding and locating here. 6 Besides the hotels which put heads-and-beds, 7 the other thing that drives our local economy in the 8 tourism sector, is that we have a predominant number 9 of locally owned restaurants and retailers that are 10 in our downtowns and village. 11 These are folks that are truly small 12 businesses. 13 They don't have HR departments, they don't 14 have legal departments, they don't have big 15 marketing budgets, so they really rely on the 16 County, the chamber, the convention bureau, the city 17 center, and others to help them, and the State as 18 well. 19 So the challenges, as far as I see them, with 20 respect to regulations and cost: 21 First, if you talk to retailers on Broadway 22 or in our villages, they are consistently concerned 23 with the competition of online stores. 24 Now, while fair taxation of online sales 25 might be a national issue, I'd suggest that the 1 Legislature remember this competitive disadvantage 2 that our local businesses are under when you 3 consider other bills that might increase the cost of 4 doing business, because we're already fighting an 5 uphill battle. 6 So, for instance, increasing the minimum wage 7 is an issue for many tourism businesses. 8 Unemployment insurance taxes have been on the 9 rise, and that's been an issue. 10 Without an HR department, the burden of 11 complying with ObamaCare, in determining how many 12 hours their employees can work or what penalties 13 they might incur, or finding the time to understand 14 how to use the exchanges, provided they work soon, 15 to select a plan is a real challenge. 16 I'll make this observation, because we have a 17 health-insurance program at the chamber. 18 We have about 800 families that rely on us 19 for health insurance. 20 Right now, even though we do all of the 21 registration for those folks online, the most 22 popular document that we have is in paper, and it 23 describes the different plans and the different 24 costs. 25 So while New York is implementing these 1 exchanges, they're doing it exclusively online. 2 What people really want to be able to do, is 3 to know what those plans are. 4 So while we struggle to get the online system 5 to work, I don't understand why we can't just put a 6 PDF of these different plans online so that people 7 can take a look at that. 8 Or, share that with chambers and brokers and 9 folks at the local level, the navigators, so that we 10 have something to hand people. 11 From the chamber, it is the most popular 12 thing that we hand out every year. 13 It doesn't give them all the details, but it 14 gives them a benchmark, an idea, a way to compare. 15 They don't need all of the details and all of 16 the -- they can get those answers from other folks, 17 they don't need to find all of that immediately, but 18 they need to know what benefits and what rates are, 19 and what plans are being offered. 20 So, while we may want to eventually get 21 everybody to an online portal, sometimes being 22 really simple is a way of being more helpful, 23 particularly to those small businesses that are 24 trying to do right by their employees in providing 25 health insurance. 1 We're lucky in Saratoga that developers are 2 taking the risk to build buildings, whether they 3 house restaurants or hotels or retail, and we're 4 seeing that again throughout our community. 5 However, the state's new environmental 6 assessment form is going to lead to more costs. 7 I've talked to, not the developers, but the 8 folks that do the planning, that do the engineering, 9 for some of these hotel projects, some of these 10 restaurant projects; and, so, they tell me, that 11 even the short form that's used for the SEQRA 12 process is going to be longer than it was before. 13 So, we're adding burdens through this new 14 environmental assessment form, both on the folks 15 that have to do that work for the developers, it 16 adds costs. 17 The other problem with this, is that it also 18 requires the local boards that have to review this, 19 to review more data, to look at more information, 20 and to themselves have to hire other people, take 21 more time, to make sure that the data is accurate 22 and independently verified, and all of that. 23 So, if there's anything you can do about the 24 new environmental assessment forms and simplifying 25 that process, that would be helpful to those 1 businesses that do want to invest here. 2 The Saratoga Race Course has a $200 million 3 economic impact on this region every year; that's 4 from Columbia County, up through Warren and 5 Washington county, and everywhere in between. 6 While the new NYRA Board appears to be 7 functioning well, one of their tasks is to make sure 8 that this is a temporary state-takeover, and that we 9 eventually transition become back to NYRA operating 10 as a private entity. 11 So, we want to make sure that we ask that you 12 support the new NYRA Board as they develop plans for 13 this transition, because we really do believe that 14 that's important. 15 I'm not going to go into detail as the -- 16 honestly, the issues are fairly minor, but I can 17 tell you that the State's oversight of the 18 Saratoga Race Course has caused some challenges to 19 those local organizations that host, or want to 20 host, events at the race course. 21 Again, it's not a huge issue, but we see the 22 impact. 23 And, anytime you have the State's involvement 24 in something, there is added bureaucracy, there are 25 added approvals, there are things you can't do any 1 longer. 2 And we're seeing that, unfortunately. 3 This community embraces the race course 4 perhaps like no other in the world. 5 We think that's one of the things that makes 6 it special. 7 So it is disheartening when have you to run 8 through a little more red tape to be able to do some 9 of the things that you've been able to do, 10 literally, for decades, in some instances. 11 More than 10 years ago, our community started 12 advocating for a VLT at Aqueduct. 13 I think that's important to understand. 14 We understood 10 years ago -- more than 15 10 years ago, that a percentage of those proceeds 16 from that facility going to support the 17 thoroughbred-racing industry in all three NYRA 18 tracks was important. 19 The success of this idea is now readily 20 apparent, as capital improvements are being made, 21 the operations are being modernized, purses have 22 increased, more breeding is being done throughout 23 New York State, and the racing continues to attract 24 a worldwide audience. 25 This investment of these VLT funds in our 1 thoroughbred-racing industry was well-thought-out 2 and well-planned. 3 Senator Eric Adams, in particular, we owe a 4 debt of gratitude to him, a couple years ago, for 5 making sure, that after 10 years, that that 6 happened. 7 This support must be continued over the 8 long term, and any governmental effort to alter or 9 change these rules, regulations, or contracts is 10 certainly problematic for us here in the 11 Capital Region. 12 Depending on what the voters decide in 13 November, we'll have additional new regulations to 14 consider with respect to casinos here in 15 New York State. 16 Either way, up or down, there are provisions 17 of the new law that, depending on how they are 18 implemented by New York State, could have positive 19 or negative consequences locally. 20 So I would ask, as strongly as possible, that 21 as the State implements the new law, regardless of 22 the outcome, either way, that you be sure to, first, 23 do no harm here in Saratoga County and the 24 Capital Region, to the racing industry, the 25 thoroughbred-racing industry, as well as to the 1 harness-racing industry. 2 And I'll give you one for instance. 3 If the casino bill were not to pass, there 4 are provisions in the law that would allow VLT 5 parlors all over the state of New York. 6 In an article that I have somewhere here, 7 that was done in the "Daily Gazette" by one of the 8 fine reporters that we have in the audience out 9 here, back a number of months ago, 10 Assemblyman Pretlow and Senator Bonacic are quoted 11 as calling this provision "the stick behind the 12 carrot." 13 The goal of the provision, as they described 14 in the article, was to make sure that the racinos 15 support the plan. 16 The challenge for us, is that this "stick," 17 if it's implemented, could harm, both, the 18 thoroughbred-racing industry, if the VLT at 19 Aqueduct, if their revenues are harmed, and it could 20 harm the harness-racing track as well if the 21 Saratoga Casino and Raceways' VLT is harmed by all 22 of this new competition. 23 If casinos are approved, on the other hand, 24 there are other regulatory provisions that will need 25 to be implemented to ensure the long-term 1 sustainability of the thoroughbred and harness 2 racing here in the Capital Region, too. 3 And we just ask that the regulators take into 4 consideration doing no harm here in Saratoga, and 5 working with us to make sure that it has a positive 6 impact either way. 7 Two final items, and one is, you know, this 8 is one of those, I think it's a simple change, and 9 it's just proven to be unbelievably elusive for 10 years. 11 There's actually some organizations that have 12 been working for 20-plus years on this. 13 We need New York State DOT and Amtrak to 14 allow bikes on trains. 15 Whatever you have to do to get the 16 regulations, the rules, eliminated to make that 17 happen, do it. 18 We tested a model earlier this year, where we 19 put them on cafe cars. 20 I realize it wasn't perfect, but it worked. 21 I recently attended a meeting with DOT and 22 Amtrak officials on this very issue. 23 And if Senator Little were here, there was a 24 representative from the Senator's office. 25 Honestly, the DOT and Amtrak, they're so 1 focused on making sure they do this in an ideal 2 fashion, and the ideal fashion is probably going to 3 cost too much to get it done. 4 We just got to find a way to do this. 5 The cafe cars worked. 6 And, we have 10 million people in 7 New York City and Montreal that would love to get on 8 a bike, on a train with their bike, and come up to 9 the upstate; whether it's to Saratoga or to Syracuse 10 or to the Adirondacks, and they can't right now. 11 We've got to make that happen. 12 It shouldn't be this difficult. 13 We shouldn't have to wait for "the ideal." 14 So whatever you can do to get DOT to be less 15 restrictive, to be more of a partner, and whatever 16 you can do to get Amtrak to also figure out how to 17 make this happen, we would love to start this 18 service by next spring. 19 We've been talking about it for decades. 20 It's time to get it rolling by next spring. 21 It's great for green tourism. 22 It's great for everybody. 23 Public sector, public local communities here, 24 and I'm sure in all of your districts, have spent 25 tens of millions of dollars creating hiking and 1 biking trails that these people could use, and our 2 local villages and towns and retailers and 3 restaurants would benefit. 4 We got to make that happen. 5 And I'll end with, Exit 3, or new Exit 4, and 6 I-87, to the Albany International Airport is also 7 crucial. 8 While I know funding is certainly an issue 9 for any project of that size, I can only imagine 10 that it's easier if we get all of the state and 11 local and county folks together in support of a 12 plan. 13 So whatever you can do to get all of the 14 state agencies that would be involved in that, 15 whether it's DEC, DOT, whoever else might have to 16 participate, to the page, to make this happen. 17 We need to be a team going to the federal 18 government trying to get the money that we need to 19 build that connector. 20 That connector will make sure that our tech 21 sector thrives, in terms of using the airport, to 22 get around the country, and around the world. 23 It will also help us to attract tourists if 24 it's easier for them to get off a plane in Albany 25 and to get to Saratoga or to get to Albany or any of 1 the locations along I-87. 2 So, I also believe that should be a priority 3 for regulators and the State, to make sure that 4 it -- it just happens. 5 So thank you again for the opportunity, and 6 I'd certainly answer any questions if you had any. 7 SENATOR MARCIONE: Thank you, Todd. 8 Thank you for your testimony. 9 That was very eye-opening. 10 Senator. 11 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Just one question, that 12 you may not be able to answer, but, the new 13 environmental assessment forms, we were on 14 Long Island last week with the construction 15 industry, and they brought that up. 16 TODD SHIMKUS: Uh-huh. 17 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Do you have any examples 18 of the specific questions that are problematic? 19 They started, of course, you had a form. 20 Now they've added additional information. 21 TODD SHIMKUS: Right. 22 SENATOR GALLIVAN: And, in general, they 23 complained of that without being specific. 24 TODD SHIMKUS: I've definitely got a 25 number -- I had a number of specifics from the 1 engineers. 2 I didn't bring them with me. 3 A couple that I remember, off the top of my 4 head -- 5 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Could you forward them to 6 us? 7 TODD SHIMKUS: Sure, I can. 8 -- but around sound issues and light issues. 9 You know, I know it came up at a hearing. 10 I'm on the comprehensive planning committee 11 here in the city. 12 We're looking at the comp plan, and the issue 13 of light pollution came up at a public hearing. 14 So, the forms include some issues related to 15 light pollution. 16 They include sound-attenuation issues that 17 you might have to deal with, so you're not harming a 18 neighborhood -- a neighbor next door. 19 And, again, those are complicated issues that 20 require engineers, and money by developers to be 21 spent, to figure all those out. 22 SENATOR GALLIVAN: And, also, in talking with 23 your members, again, down on the Island, and some of 24 the people that testified, they complained of things 25 being very subjective, and having no seemingly, you 1 know, relevance to the particular project. 2 TODD SHIMKUS: That's why I brought up -- 3 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Has that been articulated 4 to you? 5 TODD SHIMKUS: Absolutely. 6 That's why I brought up sound and light. 7 So, the lights in Saratoga Springs, to me, 8 when you see them at night, that tells you that the 9 economy is doing well, that there's something going 10 on. 11 But to some other residents, subjectively, 12 it's pollution. 13 The same with sound. 14 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Yeah, well, thanks. 15 So if you're able to forward additional 16 comments along those lines -- 17 TODD SHIMKUS: Sure. 18 SENATOR GALLIVAN: -- that would be 19 appreciated. 20 Thanks. 21 SENATOR MARCIONE: Thank you. 22 Senator. 23 SENATOR VALESKY: Just two -- I wanted to 24 follow up on two of the points that you made. 25 First of all, I was not aware of the 1 "bikes on trains" issue. 2 Just so I'm clear: 3 Is Amtrak supportive of allowing that, and 4 DOT is not allowing them to do that? 5 Or -- I'm not exactly clear what the problem 6 is. 7 TODD SHIMKUS: That's a great question. 8 The problem is, that we have an older set of 9 trains that run through New York, and they don't 10 always stay in New York. 11 So, in states that have bought new trains, 12 they have included cargo space for bikes. 13 So we don't have that, so we have to retrofit 14 anywhere from, dozens, to hundreds, of cars, 15 depending how you do this. 16 So, I think DOT and Amtrak would like to make 17 this happen, but it's not a -- it's a cost -- it's a 18 costly issue. 19 The easiest one, the least expensive one, is 20 what they tested this past summer, and that's taking 21 out a couple of seats in the cafe cars and putting 22 bikes -- allowing bikes in there, so you can roll 23 them on, roll them in, lock them in, and you're 24 done. 25 It's not an ideal solution. 1 In Michigan, they're doing that right now, 2 temporarily, before they buy new cars. 3 So -- but this has been talked about for a 4 long, long time. 5 It's cost -- the other option is, you put an 6 extra cargo train on each of the runs. 7 Obviously, that's even more expensive. 8 So, you have no easy way, except for on the 9 cafe cars, but DOT and Amtrak do not see that as an 10 ideal fashion, so they'd rather wait, until they 11 either buy new cars, or can put baggage cars on. 12 In my meeting with them, they're not gonna 13 pay for new baggage cars, and they're not buying new 14 trains. 15 So, if we're going to wait for those two 16 solutions, we're going to be waiting till 20 years 17 from now. 18 SENATOR VALESKY: Okay, we'll have to look at 19 that issue. 20 And the other thing is, and I noticed, 21 I don't know whether you intentionally were very 22 careful in your comments about the casino amendment, 23 in terms of the implementation, whether voters 24 approve it or not. 25 I'm just curious whether the chamber actually 1 has a position on the amendment itself, and as -- 2 one way or another. 3 TODD SHIMKUS: Sure. 4 We worked very closely with Senator Marchione 5 in the legislation, so there are clearly provisions 6 in there, if this passes, that are beneficial to the 7 local racing industry. 8 In fact, there were four things that we were 9 looking for in the legislation. 10 Three out of the four are in there. 11 The one that wasn't is, we would have loved 12 to have had the Saratoga Casino and Raceway as one 13 of the designated facilities, and then have the 14 provisions for working with the local municipality. 15 So -- but, it doesn't matter whether it 16 passes or not, there are provisions that will turn 17 into regulations and rules, and depending on how 18 those are done, we're trying to minimize the 19 potential impact here, or, to maximize the benefits. 20 SENATOR VALESKY: Right. 21 Whichever the case might be, right. 22 TODD SHIMKUS: Sure. 23 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you, Todd. 24 Thanks very much. 25 SENATOR MARCIONE: Todd, I have just a 1 couple. 2 You mentioned that you have 800 businesses or 3 people on your health insurance. 4 You mentioned ObamaCare. 5 Can you tell me, or do you know at this 6 point, does ObamaCare negatively impact, positively 7 impact, or really not impact your health-insurance 8 program? 9 TODD SHIMKUS: We went online yesterday, like 10 millions of others apparently did, to try to get the 11 comparisons so that we could compare the exchange 12 programs to the off-exchange programs that we have. 13 And because we weren't able to get on there, 14 and that's why I said that simple PDF. 15 We don't need a lot of data, but we do need 16 to know rates and basic provisions within those 17 plans to compare to what we -- to compare with what 18 we have. 19 So, hard to say. 20 I think, you know, clearly, people are going 21 to benefit if they qualify for the tax credits or 22 the subsidies. 23 Those individuals, those businesses, that 24 fall into those categories are going to benefit 25 because, now, there's some kind of financial 1 assistance for those folks. 2 I'm not so sure, on the other hand. 3 And I'll use the chamber as an example. 4 We have 12 full-time employees. 5 We have been able to compare our current 6 plan, which is a non-exchange plan, to what the plan 7 would cost us next year. 8 And our rates, for our employees, are going 9 up between 8 and 12 percent. 10 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Okay. 11 Thank you very much. 12 Thank you for being here. 13 We appreciate you coming. 14 TODD SHIMKUS: Sure. 15 Thanks. 16 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Next we have 17 Todd Garofano. 18 He's the president of the Saratoga and 19 Tourism Bureau [sic]. 20 He has over 25 years' experience in the 21 hospitality and tourism industry. 22 Prior to joining the Convention Bureau, Todd 23 was director of global sales with the 24 Carlson Hotels Worldwide, and Hospitality Sales 25 Force, both global hospitality companies, where he 1 marketed hotels from around the world to Fortune 200 2 companies based in the northeast United States. 3 He has spent five years as regional marketing 4 manager for Amtrak, covering New York State, 5 eastern Canada, and western Ohio. 6 And Todd got his start in the hotel industry 7 as a front-desk clerk at the Albany Hilton Hotel in 8 1988. 9 And, he's been with the Saratoga Convention 10 Bureau for 3 1/2 years. 11 Todd, thank you for being here. 12 TODD GAROFANO: Thanks very much. 13 Good morning. 14 And my son, who's a political science and 15 global-studies major at Hofstra University on 16 Long Island; he, and his poli-sci buddies, they're 17 watching on the live stream. 18 Good morning, Chris. 19 Hopefully I don't mess this up. 20 [Laughter.] 21 TODD GAROFANO: Good morning, everybody. 22 Senator Marchione, thank you very much for 23 hosting this. 24 And Senator Valesky, and Gallivan, thank you 25 very much for being here and hearing us as well. 1 I am here representing the 2 Saratoga Convention and Tourism Bureau, and our 3 457 member businesses. 4 Our members are predominantly made up of 5 businesses in the hospitality and tourism sector: 6 hotels, B&Bs, inns, restaurants, bars, attractions, 7 and service providers. 8 Our membership has actually risen by about 9 15 percent over the last 3 years, based on the 10 success that Todd laid out in his testimony earlier. 11 Todd did a great job in talking about numbers 12 and stats, so I won't go back into those. 13 But, I'll talk a little bit about the 14 Convention and Tourism Bureau, and what we do, and 15 the "I Love NY" program, in general. 16 The mission of the Convention and Tourism 17 Bureau really is to market and promote 18 Saratoga County as a global destination for groups 19 of any size and any occasion. 20 So whether it be a citywide convention at our 21 new expanded city center, and Mark Baker is here 22 representing the city center; certainly sports 23 tournaments, destination weddings, motor-coach 24 groups, you name it, it's really our mission and our 25 goal to market Saratoga and have those groups choose 1 Saratoga over other destinations; make sure they 2 have an incredible experience here, and then choose 3 Saratoga again in the future. 4 As you did hear from Todd, and as you'll hear 5 from other industry representatives today, 6 businesses face many obstacles at the state level 7 that, if corrected or adjusted, could certainly lead 8 to future growth and success. 9 So, I won't be repetitive and talk about some 10 of the issues that have already been mentioned, but 11 I would like to talk about the "I Love NY" program, 12 in general. 13 And I'll back up a little bit and talk about 14 Amtrak, and we certainly support that initiative for 15 bikes on trains as well. 16 Coming from Amtrak a few years back, we did 17 have bikes on the trains when I was there. 18 We had baggage cars on the Adirondack and 19 Ethan Allen lines that allowed us to do that, both 20 for individuals and for groups. 21 It was very effective; we did many groups on 22 the trains, with bikes, throughout the state. 23 So we would certainly like to see that come 24 back and be the success that it was, again. 25 So with the "I Love NY" program, much was 1 made about the $60 million earlier this year in 2 tourism and marketing spent by the Governor, which 3 was great. 4 We would still like to see a predictable 5 multiyear state program in tourism marketing funded, 6 you know, each year, so we would have a consistent 7 plan. 8 If you remember, 30 million of that 9 $60 million earlier this year was from 10 "Superstorm Sandy" relief. 11 So what does that mean for next year? 12 Are we looking at sixty million, or are we 13 looking at thirty? 14 We really don't know. 15 But if we had a sustainable multiyear plan, 16 we would be able to account for that, and then the 17 local tourism organizations, like ourselves, would 18 be able to piggyback on those plans with their own 19 marketing dollars and really optimize that spend. 20 We're certainly supportive and appreciative 21 of the 3.8 million in matching funds to the tourism 22 regions, and the 2.5 that went directly to market 23 the "I Love NY" grant. 24 We'd love to see that continue, but we'd love 25 to see that grow as well, going into the future. 1 The competitive-tourism marketing fund, this 2 was a new initiative this year, announced by the 3 Governor. 4 This was a $5 million competitive fund, where 5 tourism organizations from around the state would 6 compete for those additional dollars, much like the 7 economic-development councils -- the Regional 8 Economic Development Councils throughout the state 9 as well. 10 The issue here is that, within our industry, 11 our organizations tend to be more collaborative than 12 competitive. 13 We oftentimes will work with other regions 14 and other counties around the state on programs that 15 market multi-regions and statewide initiatives. 16 So, really, to compete for those dollars 17 takes away from our ability to do that. 18 We would much rather see that money go back 19 to "I Love NY" and allow us to work together and do 20 that. 21 I'll give you an example. 22 Earlier this year we launched a program 23 called "Meet in New York." 24 And this was an initiative launched by our 25 15-member New York State DMO organization 1 (destination marketing organization) associations. 2 It's basically made up of other CVBs and 3 tourism organizations around the state. 4 We partnered with Empire State Development to 5 create this program, and what we did, we launched an 6 initial event, where we targeted meeting planners in 7 and around the Albany and Capital Region area, to 8 come to an event so that we could showcase our 9 meetings facilities from around the state to them. 10 It really -- we launched with that, it was a 11 great success. 12 The turnout was incredible. 13 Empire State Development was a great partner 14 in that, and we certainly appreciate that. 15 That program has continued to evolve and grow 16 now in the form of a three-year plan, where we're 17 now really identifying target markets. 18 We're targeting regional and national trade 19 shows that we can partner on, developing a 20 meeting-planner database, creating collateral and 21 marketing tools, and developing sales initiatives 22 around that program, and then, really, at the end of 23 it, "what are we going to measure success by?" 24 And Gavin Landry and the folks at "I Love NY" 25 have been great. 1 We certainly want to see that partnership 2 grow, but I think we can do that, not in a 3 competitive environment, but more collaborative. 4 So we feel that $5 million really should go 5 back into helping us create those collaborative 6 programs statewide. 7 Speaking of the Regional Economic Development 8 Councils, certainly, we understand that those are 9 the mechanism for economic-development programs for 10 the foreseeable future. 11 They're here to stay, and that's great. 12 It's taken a couple of years for tourism 13 really to take hold in those forums, but they have. 14 As a result, here in the Capital Region, we 15 do have a tourism working group now in place, and 16 it's been very effective. 17 One of the things that we found, though, in 18 doing this, is that, while tourism certainly is big 19 business for the state, it's often smaller -- it's 20 made up of smaller businesses, nonprofit 21 associations, museums, attractions, that really have 22 difficulty in the process. 23 So once a CFA is completed and, you know, 24 they're awarded money, this is reimbursable money. 25 They have to come up with the funds up front, 1 and then be reimbursed for those efforts. 2 So it's very difficult for small 3 organizations to fully understand that, and then be 4 able to participate. 5 So as a result, and other regions around the 6 state have done this -- I know the Southern Tier and 7 the North Country have done this -- they've created 8 a revolving loan fund within the CFA process, 9 really, for those purposes themselves. 10 So what we would like to see, perhaps, is a 11 statewide program where that loan fund could happen 12 and those small organizations could participate. 13 So, really, that's what I have. 14 I appreciate the opportunity to be here this 15 morning and present to you. 16 I would be happy to answer any questions. 17 SENATOR GALLIVAN: The businesses you deal 18 with, specifically the ones that have to obtain some 19 form of a liquor license from the SLA, we hear often 20 of people in that industry complaining of antiquated 21 laws, many going back to prohibition. 22 Is that your experience? 23 And if so, are you able to cite anything 24 specific that's problematic? 25 TODD GAROFANO: We've actually heard 1 recently, really within the last year or so, that 2 it's gotten better. 3 As far as the timing of the process, 4 obtaining a liquor license, and so forth, the wait 5 time has certainly been -- has been decreased, so it 6 has been somewhat easier for new businesses to 7 obtain licenses. 8 You know, I think since the, you know, laws 9 were changed with opening times, and so forth, 10 I think that's improved as well. 11 But, by and large, we have not heard, as far 12 as our members go, you know, any of those concerns. 13 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you. 14 TODD GAROFANO: You're welcome. 15 SENATOR VALESKY: Not a question, just a 16 comment, Todd. 17 As I'm sure you know, Senator Little chairs 18 the Senate Tourism Committee, and was hoping to be 19 here today. 20 Something came up, that she wasn't able to 21 make it. 22 But, many of your issues touch on topics, as 23 we enter into next year's budget process -- 24 TODD GAROFANO: Right. 25 SENATOR VALESKY: -- so we'll be sure to 1 speak with her on your behalf. 2 And I would certainly encourage you to submit 3 directly to her your comments here today as well, 4 because I know she is focused -- has been focusing 5 significantly on those very issues. 6 TODD GAROFANO: Absolutely. thank you. 7 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you. 8 SENATOR MARCIONE: Thank you so much for 9 being here. 10 TODD GAROFANO: Thank you. 11 SENATOR MARCIONE: Thank you. 12 Our next speaker is, if he's -- has arrived, 13 is Charles "Chick" Wilson, owner of the 14 Willard Mountain Ski Area. 15 Chick has been a professional in the 16 ski industry for over 50 years. 17 Willard Mountain is a full-service ski area 18 located in Greenwich, New York; has a full list of 19 services, such as a great lesson program, 20 accommodations, and any accommodations for your 21 special event. 22 Welcome. 23 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: Thank you very much. 24 Thanks for the opportunity to be here. 25 SENATOR MARCIONE: Sure, glad to have you. 1 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: I knew when I walked 2 in, I would be outgunned here today, so, everybody 3 will just have to bear with me. 4 I'm not a professional speaker or a -- 5 I hate -- 6 SENATOR MARCIONE: But you're a businessman. 7 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: -- I hate to follow 8 the gentleman who was just talking. 9 He seemed to be quite polished at it. 10 SENATOR MARCIONE: We're really glad you're 11 here. 12 Thank you. 13 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: Well, thank you. 14 We appreciate it. 15 And I apologize, and I'm a little 16 embarrassed, that I was a little bit late. 17 SENATOR VALESKY: It's okay, not a problem. 18 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: No matter what you 19 do with vehicles, you still have problems. 20 Perhaps what I'd like to do, is put -- and 21 this might be a little harder for me because 22 I didn't hear everybody talk yet, but I'd like to 23 put a little bit of a spin on the smaller business. 24 I intentionally did not wear a suit today. 25 Not all of us have degrees in business 1 management. 2 Some of us are just people that are 3 passionate about what we do, and we have found 4 ourselves able to make a living. 5 Having a business is something that we're 6 very, very passionate about. 7 But, sometimes, the regulatory end of the 8 things, the paperwork, the requirements, that are 9 required to fill out are -- are extremely difficult. 10 If I could give you an example: 11 About two months ago, we had a mandatory 12 business economic survey that had to be filled out. 13 14 I apologize; I'm not sure if that was a 15 federal mandate or a state mandate, but it was 16 mandated. 17 I could not fill that out. 18 I couldn't fill it out from my financial 19 statements. 20 I had to hire my accountants to fill the 21 thing out. 22 Now, there are going to be a lot of 23 businesses in this room that have the capability of 24 doing that in-house. 25 But there's a lot of -- there's a lot of 1 things that come along that are difficult and 2 untimely for small business to fill it out. 3 Worker's comp rules and regulations and 4 postings seem to never -- it's an ever-changing 5 ball. 6 And I know things -- I understand that things 7 change as we go through time, but it's becoming 8 harder and harder to keep up with the rules and the 9 postings and the requirements for worker's comp. 10 New York State Department of Labor rules, 11 records, and postings: 12 We no longer hire 14- and 15-year-olds. 13 Maybe we shouldn't be hiring 14- and 14 15-year-olds. 15 We used to have a junior instructor program 16 that accommodated a lot of people very well; 17 families, the students, everybody was happy with it. 18 The regulations are so stringent on hiring 19 14- and 15-years-old, that I just -- I just don't do 20 it anymore. 21 16- and 17-year-olds, I do hire some. 22 I hire as few as I can. 23 Willard employs 5 people in the summer, and 24 we go to 250 in the winter. 25 So these are all part-time -- part-time 1 people; some of them, this is their first job, and 2 they're high school kids, trying to learn what it's 3 like to have a job and the responsibilities of a 4 job. 5 The hours: 6 If we are one minute over the required hour 7 time, it can be up to a $2,000 fine. 8 I'm not here saying that I'm asking for no 9 rules, or that any business would be asking for no 10 rules, as far as child-labor laws would be 11 concerned, but perhaps a little leniency, as far as, 12 you know, if it was -- if it was a 5 percent 13 leniency factor in a 20-hour week, that would mean 14 an employee could work one hour over their time 15 slot, and there wouldn't necessarily be a fine 16 associated to it. 17 Here, again, I'm not asking that the labor 18 laws be changed necessarily, but, boy, it would be a 19 blessing. 20 When we release a student, an instructor, 21 a ski instructor, and we are at max hours, and he is 22 walking to the time clock to punch out, and he runs 23 into a buddy and talks for 5 minutes, that can be a 24 $2,000 conversation, to me. 25 Fortunately, it has not yet, but there are 1 stories out there where it has been. 2 Sales tax filings: 3 No more paper sales-tax filings. 4 I think this becomes an issue with big 5 business versus small business. 6 My secretary, if you call her that -- she's 7 her own boss, really, I don't seem to control her -- 8 prefers to do it electronically. 9 When she is not there, I am forced to do it. 10 I cannot do it electronically. 11 At my age, I guess I'm just plain 12 computer-inept. 13 But she filed this summer, she filed one day 14 late, with a corporation that owed no taxes; in 15 other words, there was no income. 16 It was for, like, June, and there was no 17 income incurred, so there was no tax due. 18 And the penalty for being one day late was 19 $1,000. 20 I understand that it can't be an open-ended 21 thing or we'd all be late, we'd all procrastinate 22 and would do things at the last minute, but, boy, 23 they seem to be pretty -- they seem to be pretty 24 strict to us small business people; that $1,000 25 means something to us. 1 Just a short thing, for an example: tax 2 increase on alcohol. 3 Okay? 4 Nothing stays the same. 5 Prices go up. 6 My prices have had to go up. 7 But we received a notice a couple years ago 8 that the legislators had approved a sales-tax 9 increase on wholesale alcohol sales. 10 Understandable. 11 About three weeks later, we received a 12 notice, so that -- 13 I'm sorry, let me back up a little bit. 14 -- so that all the sales of wholesale liquor 15 from alcohol, from there, forward, would have this 16 increased tax associated with it. 17 A couple weeks later, we received a notice 18 that we needed to go through our entire inventories, 19 and they gave us formulas for figuring out kegs and 20 bottles and cans -- I'm sorry, bottles of beer, 21 partial-full bottles of liquor. 22 And we had to formulate all the taxes due on 23 the alcohol that we had on premises. 24 I don't know why that has bothered me so 25 much, but it really has. 1 It just-- somebody had to do that. 2 In my case, I had to do it. 3 Just seems to be a lot more things that 4 I have to contend with. 5 It's very easy, I think, for somebody to say, 6 Wow, you know, there's some more money out there. 7 But, somebody has to do the work in order to 8 get that. 9 This is -- I'm remiss to say this, but if 10 I don't, my colleagues will hang me up by my thumbs. 11 There still is a very strong feeling that it 12 is the private-sector ski areas competing with the 13 state-run-and-operated ski areas. 14 It's an extremely unfair balance there. 15 The solution to that, there's no problem with 16 anybody in the state of New York, that I know of -- 17 and I sit on the board of SANY, which is "Ski Areas 18 of New York" -- I don't think anybody minds the 19 State being in the business. 20 It's just, wow, when you can take a can of 21 Pepsi to a state-run ski area and get a $15 lift 22 ticket, when little Willard Mountain is $30, those 23 are hard things to compete with. 24 Very hard things to compete with. 25 So, in closing, I just would like to say, 1 yes, we kind of accept the fact that paperwork is 2 required by the state and federal governments. 3 We would like to see it be a little easier, a 4 little straightforward, and I think the State could 5 be a little bit more lenient on timelines and 6 penalties. 7 Thank you again for the opportunity to speak 8 with you. 9 Because I wasn't here and heard the other 10 people, I hope I covered some areas that weren't 11 addressed before, and didn't just repeat things. 12 SENATOR MARCIONE: Oh, no, no. 13 You absolutely have covered a lot of 14 different areas, and we appreciate your testimony. 15 If you wouldn't mind answering a few 16 questions? 17 Senator, do you have a few questions? 18 SENATOR VALESKY: Not really a question, but 19 it sounds like, given the examples that you've 20 cited, whether it be with the Tax Department or the 21 Department of Labor, that a little flexibility on 22 the part of state agencies would go a long way. 23 Is that a fair statement? 24 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: The fines are for -- 25 we're all working. 1 We're just trying to make a living. 2 And in my case, my business is condensed down 3 so tight, that we're all working very hard. 4 I appreciate the fact that, like I mentioned 5 before, we procrastinate, and if you leave it too 6 open-ended, everybody will run to the deadline and 7 pass that. 8 But, anything that could be done to show some 9 leniency as far as the fines go, the timelines. 10 You know, taxes are due on the 15th. 11 If they show up the 16th, a letter is sent 12 out, saying, Wow, you know, you missed your tax 13 deadline. 14 This cannot continue to happen, or a fine 15 will be imposed on you. 16 But, I think I've missed my tax deadline 17 twice in 20 years. 18 It's pretty severe, in my opinion. 19 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you, Mr. Wilson. 20 Thank you for being here. 21 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you for being here, 22 first of all. 23 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: Thank you. 24 SENATOR GALLIVAN: And if our numbers are 25 right, there's 1.5 million of you across the state. 1 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: That's correct. 2 SENATOR GALLIVAN: And that represents 3 60 percent of our workforce. 4 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: Yeah. 5 SENATOR GALLIVAN: So there's more of you 6 than, I guess, than people out there with MBAs and 7 suits, and all that. 8 And that's really -- we're trying to help 9 everybody; the majority, of course, small 10 businesses. 11 But the question I have, and you didn't 12 testify about it, and I don't know if it affected 13 you, and I don't know if I have the proper 14 recollection, if this just had to do with the 15 Great Lakes Compact, or not, but, do you have any 16 new regulations put on you regarding water 17 withdrawal, from the DEC? 18 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: We have to report 19 water withdrawal. 20 My water-- this only applies to 21 Willard Mountain. 22 My water is all held in static storage. 23 It's in ponds, so I'm not drawing out of a 24 lake, I'm am not drawing out of anything. 25 But, I have to report, which was quite a 1 lengthy process the first time around. 2 Now that we've had to do it, now it's just 3 fill in the blanks from the year before. 4 SENATOR GALLIVAN: So something, then, that 5 you would deem reasonable, the annual reporting? 6 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: I would -- 7 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Or would you deem it 8 reasonable? 9 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: I would deem it 10 reasonable, other than, I don't like what I think 11 they're collecting the data for. 12 In other words, I don't -- I hope they're not 13 going to charge us for using water that is returned. 14 My fear is, is that they're collecting this 15 data to apply some formularization for charging for 16 water withdrawal. 17 SENATOR GALLIVAN: So is that just your fear 18 now, or is there some indication that they're doing 19 that? 20 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: That's mine and the 21 association's fear. 22 It is not just me. 23 It's everybody across New York State that's 24 in the ski business; fear that that's why they're 25 collecting the data. 1 I hope I'm wrong there. 2 The extra cost is -- could be prohibitive. 3 SENATOR GALLIVAN: One other question, 4 unrelated to that -- 5 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: Sure. 6 SENATOR GALLIVAN: -- in your industry, it 7 would strike me that there would be concern about 8 liability, and liability insurance. 9 Is there anything that the State does that 10 contributes to the high cost of liability insurance 11 for your industry; if you know? 12 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: Actually, 13 New York State has one of the best codes to help 14 define ski areas versus the skier or snowboarder. 15 There is a very specific set of rules, 16 Article 68, I believe it is, that defines what the 17 ski area is responsible for, and what the skier is 18 responsible for. 19 And New York State is one of the best states 20 to have that. 21 So, actually, liability-wise, New York State 22 is a good state to be involved. 23 SENATOR GALLIVAN: That's good to know. 24 We don't hear that a lot. 25 [Laughter.] 1 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: And I'm very happy 2 to be able to say that that's the case. 3 SENATOR GALLIVAN: It's good to hear. 4 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: You could give us, 5 tort reform would help. 6 SENATOR GALLIVAN: All right, thank you. 7 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: Thank you. 8 SENATOR MARCIONE: Mr. Wilson, thank you so 9 much for being here with us. 10 And let me tell you, that if I could take my 11 jacket off and sit in my sweater, I would do that as 12 well. 13 I have just one clarification, I want to 14 understand, you talked about a tax increase on 15 alcohol, and you had to go back and do an assessment 16 of what you had on hand. 17 Did this make you go retroactive? 18 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: Correct. 19 SENATOR MARCIONE: You didn't get 20 notification, and then were requested to have to 21 go -- so you weren't buying new, you had a stock 22 already on hand? 23 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: Correct. 24 SENATOR MARCIONE: So the new rule didn't go 25 forward, it went backward -- 1 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: Correct. 2 SENATOR MARCIONE: -- and you had to pay on 3 what you already had on hand? 4 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: That is correct. 5 SENATOR MARCIONE: Wow. 6 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: Yep. 7 SENATOR MARCIONE: Yeah, that doesn't seem 8 appropriate either, does it? 9 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: Well, I just -- you 10 know, your -- the funds are going to be received as 11 you move forward, from that time on. 12 SENATOR MARCIONE: I see. 13 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: Wow, to have to go 14 back and do an inventory, I mean, it's -- you know, 15 there are places that have their inventory 16 electronically monitored, but not a 17 Willard Mountain-type ski area. 18 That had to be physically, you know, and 19 figuring out how much is in a keg was. 20 One that you can't see into, is hard. 21 SENATOR MARCIONE: Right. 22 Thank you so much. 23 We really appreciate your being here with us 24 today and providing us your insight. 25 It was very, very important to us. 1 Thank you. 2 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: Thank you. 3 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you. 4 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: Once again, 5 I apologize for being late. 6 I feel bad about that. 7 SENATOR GALLIVAN: That's okay. 8 SENATOR MARCIONE: You don't have to. 9 CHARLES "CHICK" WILSON: Thanks again. 10 SENATOR MARCIONE: Next is Christine Hoffer. 11 She's a tourism administrator for 12 Washington County Tourism Association, and 13 proprietor of the Rice Mansion Inn. 14 Within Washington County lies 837 square 15 miles of astounding beauty and a wealth of 16 attractions, both natural and manmade. 17 Bounded on the east by the Green Mountains of 18 Vermont, the north by Lakes Champlain and 19 Lake George, the west by Saratoga Springs, and the 20 south by Capital District, Washington County is 21 situated in the heart of a region that offers 22 visitors a number of intriguing ways to discover, 23 play, connect, and rejuvenate. 24 Welcome. 25 CHRISTINE HOFFER: Thank you. 1 Thank you. 2 I'm actually going to speak primarily as the 3 proprietor of the Rice Mansion Inn, but I'd like to 4 step back and make some comments on what my 5 colleagues have already talked about with you, just 6 to add my two cents with regards to a couple of the 7 initiatives they've brought up to you. 8 The first is the bikes on Amtrak. 9 It's an initiative that I've worked very, 10 very hard on, because it will benefit my county 11 probably the most with regards to additional 12 visitors. 13 Just to articulate why it is important for 14 us, is that the two bookends of the Adirondack Line 15 are New York City and Montreal, both are huge 16 cycling communities, Montreal especially. 17 For Washington County, we host the largest 18 single-day bike race in the world, which is the 19 Tour of the Battenkill, with 3,000 racers. 20 And if you do the multiplier, there's 21 probably, you know, 20,000 people that come for that 22 two-day bike race in Washington County. 23 64 percent of those riders come from 24 New York City, and about 18 to 20 percent come from 25 Montreal. 1 So from the spectators' perspective, to be 2 able to bring their bike and take the train in to 3 our complementary communities of the 4 Capital District, they would certainly do that, and 5 then ride their bikes into the Tour of the 6 Battenkill and take advantage of a new ride called 7 the "Gran Fondo." 8 Currently, now, that's impossible. 9 So they have to, in turn, rent a car, if 10 that's available to them, and if they even drive, 11 which is another issue. 12 Bella Quebéc is one of the largest bike-tour 13 operators in the world. 14 They do 10 tours a year, from Montreal to 15 New York City, which means they ride their bike from 16 one city to the next. 17 They currently bus them. 18 Ideally, it would be great to put them on the 19 train so that those riders have the opportunity to 20 experience our communities along the 21 Adirondack Line, and that those communities have the 22 opportunity to showcase who they are and what they 23 are to those riders. 24 And on the bus, it's a little bit more 25 difficult to do that because you're just coming 1 straight down 87. 2 About 5 years ago they did the Grand Tour, 3 and they had 5,000 cyclists that started in 4 Glens Falls, and went back to Montreal. 5 And, again, trying to capture those riders to 6 come back, and according to Bella Quebéc, 84 percent 7 of those riders will come back to a community that 8 they visited during the Grand Tour. 9 In addition to that, you have the Tour of the 10 Catskills, the Tour of Syracuse. 11 We just had a bike race called "CRIT," and, 12 mountain biking in Saratoga. 13 So there's lots of opportunities for 14 cyclists, from a competitive standpoint, as well as 15 a leisure standpoint. 16 And it would be terrific to have those riders 17 be able to take advantage of the roads between the 18 Capital District and Warren County, especially into 19 Washington County. 20 And our roads are perfect for that. 21 So, just to add a little bit more with 22 regards to that. 23 And then, also, with the cars, there were 24 cars on there, and I think retrofitting what is 25 available would be easier than they think. 1 I just remember, recently, we had some 2 reserve train cars that we needed to dispose of in 3 the Capital area, and it would have been great to 4 have been able to retrofit a couple of those train 5 cars to accommodate bikes on there. 6 The other thing that I recently learned, it's 7 not just bikes, but golf clubs as well. 8 I had a friend that was trying to go to 9 New York City to go to play in a golf tournament, 10 and was denied. 11 Didn't make his golf tournament, embarrassed 12 his company, embarrassed himself, because he just 13 assumed he could take his bags -- his golf bag on 14 the train. 15 He was unable to do that out of the 16 Rensselaer train station. 17 The other one is the consolidated funding 18 application, and Todd's comments with the revolving 19 loan fund. 20 Our region did submit a grant for an 21 agritourism, which will touch a collaborative thing 22 for sure, which is the growers and producers of the 23 region, restaurants, and tourism. 24 If we receive this grant, it will be very 25 difficult for us, because we are seven tourism 1 agencies that will try, and will participate in 2 this. 3 Each one of us is responsible directly to our 4 counties. 5 So for me to go to my county and say, "Gosh, 6 we got this great grant, now I need another couple 7 hundred thousand dollars," is just not going to 8 happen. 9 So what that would force us to do, 10 potentially, is get a bridge loan, or some type of a 11 loan, in order to make this grant a reality. 12 In our application, we did ask that they 13 consider to create a revolving fund for 14 organizations like ours, so that it's reimbursable. 15 So, if we get a third of it, then we spend to 16 that third, based on our timeline, and so on, so 17 that the State is not out any money, and we move 18 forward with our project. 19 So, a couple things briefly with that. 20 So switching gears, and going to the 21 Rice Mansion Inn: 22 So, I am the small kid on the block. 23 And you're going to hear from a couple of the 24 other hotels here. 25 And just to give preface, that I wasn't the 1 person that thought, Gosh, I'm want to own a bed & 2 breakfast; that's going to be super cool, and I love 3 talking to people, and all that kind of stuff. 4 Prior to moving to this region, I was the 5 director of sales and catering for a 6 Double-Tree Hotel, and, we did just over a 7 million dollars in food revenue, with 2 banquet 8 rooms, 237 guest rooms. 9 And prior to that, I worked for 10 Alaska Airlines in sales and marketing. 11 So, I know both ends of the spectrum as far 12 as travel goes. 13 And then upon moving here, I helped open the 14 Cambridge Hotel, which is now defunct, but was fully 15 entrenched in the marketplace. 16 So, in my mind, I thought I knew what I was 17 doing. 18 "In my mind." 19 So my husband, Jeff, and I purchased the 20 Rice Mansion Inn, which is a neoclassical, colonial 21 revival mansion, with an adjacent carriage house, in 22 the village of Cambridge, which is 45 minutes 23 directly east of here, on Route 29, which turns into 24 Route 372. 25 Giving you directions, because you want to 1 come and visit. 2 [Laughter.] 3 CHRISTINE HOFFER: We bought this in 2004 for 4 $350,000. 5 The building -- the main building, which is 6 the mansion, is 7500 square feet, and just over 7 5,000 square feet of that was not habitable. 8 The carriage house, which was behind it -- or 9 is behind, is 4500 square feet, and was an operating 10 inn when we purchased it, with 8 guest rooms within 11 that. 12 After we purchased it, we renovated the 13 second and the third floor; the second floor for 14 guests, where we have four guestrooms, and then the 15 third floor for our own residence, because, as a 16 three-story wood structure, we cannot have guests on 17 the third floor, which is a code issue, which we'll 18 talk about. 19 The mansion was built by Jerome Rice, who was 20 the second largest seed producer in the 21 United States. 22 It's a very significant historic structure, 23 and Jerome's story is very, very significant to the 24 development of southern Washington County 25 specifically, with the distribution of goods, 1 employing farmers year-round. 2 So, they would grow the seeds for him in the 3 winter -- in the summertime. 4 And in the spring, and in the wintertime, 5 they'd work for him, thrashing. 6 So it allowed for Cambridge to become a 7 vibrant, beautiful community back in the day. 8 So, red tape and regulations: 9 We'll start out, day one, that we bought it, 10 the Health Department immediately came in and said 11 that the carriage house was on a well. 12 Again, remember, this is an existing 13 business. 14 All we did was buy the business and change 15 the name and new ownership. 16 We had to hook up the carriage house to 17 village water, at a cost of $5,000 to us. 18 If we chose not to do that, the 19 Health Department could, in turn, force us to do a 20 Phase 5 environmental, which would be at a cost of 21 about $15,000, and then they could still choose to 22 make us hook up to village water. 23 The village is not -- the village does not 24 own its own water system. 25 It's is privately held, and I believe we're 1 on our fourth owner now. 2 We pay $130 per month for the luxury of 3 having water, and then we also pay for the water 4 itself. 5 And we need water, obviously. 6 And, that was in May of 2004. 7 In July of 2007, our building participated in 8 a grant program through Main Street, and received a 9 grant to renovate a piece of the building, that we 10 would open up and add additional retail 11 opportunities, and allow for the main building to 12 become ADA-compliant. 13 I wish I had brought the stack of paperwork 14 because, I'm not kidding you, it's this big 15 (indicating), but, we were denied our application by 16 the local code-enforcement officer, and we had to go 17 to the State for a variance. 18 We went to the State for a variance, and we 19 received that variance, but the local 20 code-enforcement officer chose not to allow for it, 21 for a variety of reasons: 22 Some personal. 23 Some is that, within the code enforcement, 24 there's a section called "Amendment K," which is 25 specific for historic preservation. 1 And that gives leniency to the 2 code-enforcement officer to allow for buildings, 3 such as mine, to be multipurpose, and to be used. 4 What it truly came down to, was that our 5 certificate of occupancy did not make it into the 6 file. 7 So rather than tell us, as individuals, 8 "You don't have a certificate of occupancy," we 9 could have produced the signed, stamped document 10 that they were missing and remedied the situation a 11 little bit earlier. 12 So long story short: 13 We asked for a new code-enforcement officer 14 that would be willing to work with us, and we did 15 receive that, and we received the ability to do what 16 we wanted to do, which was open up a new door -- it 17 was an original door -- but opening that up for 18 guests to come in through that door which had an 19 ADA-compliant ramp on it. 20 Our goal was to open a restaurant within 21 that, but we learned, that because we are a 22 three-story wood structure, we'd have to put a 23 sprinkler system throughout the entire building. 24 Remember, it's 7,500 square feet. 25 We would only use about 2,000 square feet for 1 guests to dine in. 2 This was in 2007. 3 At that time, the sprinkler-system costs 4 would have been no less than $300,000. 5 We would not have been able to do that 6 because there was not enough water pressure in the 7 village of Cambridge -- go back to the water 8 system -- in order to allow for the sprinkler system 9 to cover the whole building with enough pressure to 10 make it work. 11 So then, in turn, we would have had to put in 12 a dry system, which would have made the cost of the 13 sprinkler system that much more expensive. 14 So we said, "Thank you for our certification 15 of occupancy." 16 We have a great little gift shop now, and 17 we're ADA-compliant within the Rice Mansion. 18 The entire village of Cambridge is on a 19 septic system, as many communities in 20 Washington County are. 21 Going back to wanting to open up a place for 22 people to eat, we came to an agreement with the 23 Health Department and with code enforcement that, 24 possibly, we could offer coffee and danish, or 25 something like that, but, we had to prove our septic 1 system. 2 The septic system was put in the 1990s by the 3 Department of -- by the DEC and the 4 Health Department, because buildings, such as the 5 building that we didn't own at the time, were 6 flowing into the alco [ph.]. 7 The water system and the septic system dates 8 back to the 1800s, so this building was still on 9 that type of a system. 10 So the DEC came in in the '90s and this 11 building was put on a new septic system. 12 There are no drawings available to us. 13 They're not on file DEC. 14 They're not on file with the 15 Health Department. 16 They're not on file with the company that 17 produced and installed the septic system. 18 And, so, in order for us to serve coffee to 19 the public, we would have had to have done two 20 things: 21 One is, prove the septic system that we have, 22 which would cost us no less than $35,000, or, put in 23 a new septic system. 24 And our desire to do this was because a 25 business in Cambridge had closed, and it was sort of 1 that gathering spot where everybody gathered in the 2 morning, had their coffee, you know, made it that 3 destination where people came together and had 4 conversations. 5 So needless to say, we didn't really have 6 eighty-five to a hundred thousand dollars to put in 7 a new septic system, because as soon as we touch our 8 septic system, we then have to comply by different 9 regulations. 10 And because we have two buildings, the 11 regulations would have required us to put in a very 12 extensive system, based on the square footage of the 13 buildings, not the flow, even though we did prove 14 our flow through a course of documentation that we 15 had to give. 16 The building was allowed to host, and is 17 allowed to host, events, so if you wanted to have a 18 wedding or reunion, or something like that, we could 19 do things like that. 20 So we applied for and received temporary beer 21 and wine licenses. 22 We were advised by the Liquor Authority that 23 we should apply for a permanent license, because we 24 were applying for so many temporary ones, and the 25 laws have changed, and now a singular Rice Mansion 1 Inn can only apply for and receive four temporary 2 beer and wine licenses annually. 3 So after two years, and a lot of intervention 4 with Senator Little and Assemblyman Tony Jordan, we 5 were told that we do not qualify for any of the 6 280-plus liquor licenses that are available in the 7 New York State, and that we should pull our 8 application because, if we did not, we would be 9 denied, and if, in the future, we ever wanted to 10 have a beer and wine or a full liquor license, that 11 would be a black mark on our record as a denial. 12 So there would be questions asked about why 13 you were denied; not really why you were denied. 14 And that is because New York State does not 15 have a liquor license that applies to my building. 16 And what that is, is we are two buildings, we 17 can't have a restaurant, so it's all these things 18 coming together to not allow for us to grow our 19 business. 20 In 2009 -- October of 2009, we had our annual 21 health-department inspection. 22 Because we do serve a full breakfast, we pay 23 an additional $75 annually to serve eggs and meat. 24 During that inspection, the new enforcement 25 officer focused on fire separation rather than 1 sanitation. 2 So after a four-hour inspection in our 3 buildings, we had four pages of violations. 4 Those violations were all based on fire 5 separation, and their code book was dated from 1979, 6 so the Health Department was enforcing 7 fire-separation laws that were not accurate or valid 8 during that time. 9 So, another year of fighting with a state 10 department in order to just simply run our business, 11 having to have Senator Little and, again, 12 Assemblyman Tony Jordan, interface on our behalf, 13 and actually brought together a mediation between 14 the Rice Mansion Inn and the Health Department so 15 that we could move forward with our business. 16 We were issued a cease-and-desist order with 17 our building, which I ignored. 18 Then after all of that, in December of 2009, 19 the Health Department, now, no longer enforces fire 20 separation. 21 It has nothing to do with us, that was 22 already coming down the pipe, and for whatever 23 reason, the Health Department was focusing on that. 24 And there is much more with regards to that 25 in the Lake George area, with other bed & breakfasts 1 or inns, on a smaller scale. 2 There is a place in Lake George that did do 3 what the Health Department asked them to do, an 4 expensive well, over $250,000, and then what they 5 did was -- is probably not considered compliant by 6 today's standards with what they actually did do. 7 So, again, I'm a really small business. 8 These are the agencies that I have to 9 interface with. 10 I'm fortunate, because of who I am and what 11 I do, that I know the right people to call. 12 If you were not the right person, you would 13 have closed your doors a long, long time ago. 14 So the next thing is taxes: 15 Because Washington County's rural and 16 agriculture, and we are the foothills of the 17 Adirondacks, a significant percentage of our state 18 is not-for-profit, either state land, a church, a 19 school, etc. 20 My building today, the taxes on my property 21 are $18,000. 22 Yesterday I wrote a check for $9,880 for my 23 school taxes. 24 I'm a family of four. 25 And with that, again, we bought the building 1 for three hundred and fifty. 2 It was assessed at two thirty-seven when we 3 bought it. 4 Today our fair-market value is $702,000, with 5 a 64 percent equalization rate. 6 And -- excuse me. 7 Our full market value is seven-oh-two. 8 Our assessed value was four thirty-five, but 9 if do you the math, it's seven-oh-two. 10 This is concerning for a lot of different 11 reasons; and, primarily, just because, straight-up, 12 we can't afford it. 13 I mean, it's just, you know, silly that, you 14 know, a building in Cambridge, New York, pays more 15 taxes than a similar building in downtown Saratoga. 16 I do understand the reasons for that, with 17 the lack of infrastructure within Washington County, 18 and the businesses and the taxes that a community 19 would collect. 20 But, in order to keep Washington County what 21 it is, which is a beautiful aggregant economy, there 22 has to be a way to make things work for businesses, 23 like mine, to be able to survive and prosper. 24 The taxes, as it relates to our school, and 25 what's called the "combined wealth ratio," and this 1 is important for tourism, because in order for a 2 business like mine to survive, we have to be able to 3 afford it. 4 And a 9,000 or 10,000 dollar tax bill for our 5 school is just not going to work. 6 So the combined wealth ratio, which is how 7 our schools receive State aid, is a combination of 8 your property value and your personal income. 9 So the property value for the 10 Cambridge School District, in 2004, was 292 million. 11 Today it's 577 million, which is an increase 12 of 98 percent. 13 The average income for the person has gone up 14 13 percent, so the two just don't match. 15 So we're being -- our State aid is based on 16 property value, not on what the people actually make 17 within the community. 18 The student population in 2005 was 19 1,092 students. 20 It's 885 students. 21 So like many rural school districts, our 22 population is decreasing, but our taxes are 23 increasing, and our State aid is decreasing. 24 So, we're not able to offer services to our 25 children. 1 And how that impacts tourism-based 2 businesses, is people want to travel to and visit 3 places that are vibrant and exciting. 4 And Washington County is certainly vibrant 5 and it's certainly exciting, and -- but at the same 6 time, we can't grow and we can't offer the services 7 that the tourism individual is going to want. 8 They want a nice place to stay. 9 They want a place to shop. 10 They want a place to eat. 11 And when you don't have the population to run 12 those businesses, because they are going to be 13 individuals, they're not going to be box stores or 14 chain restaurants, it's impossible for them to do 15 that, because it's just cost-prohibitive, across the 16 board, in order to do that, because of the taxes 17 associated on our properties and our school taxes. 18 Senator Little and Assemblyman Jordan worked 19 together to put together a bill which is currently 20 on the floor. 21 It's Senate Bill 07616, and it's been there 22 for about a year, and it's specific to our school 23 district to address this issue. 24 It has come back to us, as the residents and 25 taxpayers, that we need to call the 1 Education Committee and hound them in order to 2 listen to this bill, to get it pushed forward and 3 voted on. 4 And I, quite honestly, think that's absurd 5 that my Senator and my Assemblyman worked hard on 6 our behalf, and that, now, as a population, we're 7 asked to call and hound the Committee Chair for 8 Education, to get this bill looked at and thought 9 about for our community, so that, not only can our 10 community grow, but our students have the 11 opportunity to continue to play sports and 12 participate in extracurricular activities. 13 In looking at small Main Street, New York 14 State, and communities, like, the village of 15 Cambridge, the village of Greenwich, the village of 16 Whitehall, the village of Salem, it's very difficult 17 for us to grow. 18 And if we can't grow and prosper, in my 19 opinion, New York State is losing its sense of 20 place. 21 We have great stories, we have great 22 buildings, and we have great people, but those are 23 all being diminished, because we don't have the 24 ability to grow, because we are not a global 25 foundries, which I agree, is very, very important to 1 our community as a whole, but it does not help us. 2 The funds that are available through grant 3 programs are not really available to for-profit 4 businesses. 5 So I received a $12,000 New York Main Street 6 grant as a for-profit business. 7 Had I taken my building and turned it into 8 low- to moderate-income housing, then I would have 9 received more money; or, if I turned my building 10 into a not-for-profit, I would have received more 11 money. 12 So looking at the historic structures and the 13 significance and importance of them to our unique 14 and authentic story, which is New York State, 15 I honestly think that, when you look at these grant 16 programs, there needs to be opportunities for truly 17 historic buildings, such as the Rice Mansion Inn, 18 and the Cambridge Hotel, which has now been closed 19 for two years, and, for a lot of -- a lot of 20 reasons, cost of doing business, and a lot -- lots 21 of things. 22 But the taxes on that building are $47,000, 23 and it's for sale for $250,000, and nobody wants to 24 buy it. 25 So there's reasons for that, and a lot of it 1 is the taxes, and the issues associated with a 2 historic building. 3 The document that I provided here, and 4 there's a listing of the taxes. 5 The other thing I want to point out is that, 6 within the Main Street Washington County, the 7 village of Cambridge, and the town of White Creek, 8 while other communities, this is one building; this 9 is our whole street. 10 So we have just over 100,000 square feet of 11 commercial real estate for sale or for rent. 12 That does not include the Cambridge Hotel, 13 and that does not include the Mary McClellan 14 Hospital that closed many, many years ago. 15 And, it's difficult for us to sell those 16 buildings because of the regulations and 17 restrictions put on us by the State, through code 18 enforcement, through the Health Department, and just 19 the lack of infrastructure that we have in our small 20 rural communities in order to grow, specific to 21 septic systems and water. 22 In that Main Street, which is, you can walk 23 there in about -- walk our Main Street in about 24 10 minutes, there are 5 significant historic 25 structures that are foreclosed on and currently 1 vacant, one of them being the Cambridge Hotel. 2 And, again, the reason that they are is 3 multi-reasons, but the biggest is that it's just 4 cost-prohibitive to buy a historic structure, make 5 it code-compliant, and then try and open it as a 6 business and run it effectively. 7 Thank you. 8 SENATOR MARCIONE: Thank you. 9 Questions? 10 Comments? 11 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Wow. 12 CHRISTINE HOFFER: I was going to bring some 13 tissue, but -- 14 SENATOR GALLIVAN: I do appreciate your 15 testimony, and I think we do get the picture. 16 And you described, really, why we have 17 started this venture. 18 CHRISTINE HOFFER: Thank you. 19 SENATOR GALLIVAN: But I don't have any 20 specific questions, thank you. 21 CHRISTINE HOFFER: Thank you very much for 22 taking the time to listen to us. 23 And as the tourism person for 24 Washington County, we are a collaborative group with 25 our Capital-Saratoga Region. 1 And going back, just real quickly, to the 2 consolidated funding applications, it's a 3 collaborative-competitive grant. 4 And, in my opinion, those two words should 5 not be in the same sentence. 6 We are collaborative, and we do a lot of 7 things together. 8 We don't want to compete with our other 9 counties in the state. 10 We want to work together and make 11 New York State "the" destination of choice for 12 travelers outside of and within New York. 13 Thank you. 14 SENATOR MARCIONE: Thanks so very much. 15 Thank you. 16 Our next speaker is John Lemery. 17 He's an attorney who represents -- his firm 18 represents Howe Caverns. 19 Howe Caverns is the largest show cave in the 20 northeast, and is New York's second most-visited 21 natural attraction. 22 Howe Caverns is a living limestone cave 23 curved by an underground river over the course of 24 millions of years. 25 The cave was discovered in 1842 by 1 Lester Howe, for whom it is named. 2 Welcome. 3 JOHN LEMERY: Good morning. 4 I'm tired out after that. 5 [Laughter.] 6 JOHN LEMERY: My name is John Lemery. 7 I'm here on behalf of Howe Caverns. 8 I appreciate, on behalf of the company, the 9 ability to speak to you today about issues affecting 10 that property, and issues that affect the theme-park 11 industry. 12 I have a background in the theme-park 13 industry as an economic-development lawyer 14 representing Six Flags for about 25 years, and 15 Charlie Wood, who owned the Great Escape before 16 that. 17 So, that's sort of what led me to 18 Howe Caverns. 19 My very good friend Emil Galasso asked me to 20 come over and help him. 21 He has been trying, since he and his family 22 purchased Howe Caverns in 2007, to make it more of a 23 destination place for folks than just an 24 hour-and-a-half cave tour. 25 And what we found, when we started, was that 1 people would come over to Howe Caverns and they 2 would visit the cave. 3 And, often, we'd get questions: 4 Well, what is there to do now here? 5 Is there anything else to do? 6 And there really wasn't, and we would try to 7 encourage them to go see Cooperstown, and some of 8 the other opportunities in that beautiful area. 9 So, the Galasso family decided to invest 10 their own money in trying to add some things to 11 Howe Caverns, which would, over time, create a 12 destination. 13 And they created a very large, I'll call it a 14 "jungle gym," which is a big ropes course for 15 children, and four zip lines, and a bungee-jumping 16 attraction, and a rock wall, and rebuilt the 17 building for the gem-stone mining, and that kind of 18 thing. 19 So it's gone very well and it's worked well. 20 We've had to put up with "Hurricane Irene" 21 and all of the trauma that that caused to the 22 county, but things have moved along. 23 I'm going to tell you a tale this morning 24 about some balls, some OGO balls, that we acquired 25 in New York -- or, rather, at Orlando at the 1 International Association of Amusement Park 2 Attractions, and it has to do with the Department of 3 Labor, and some things I think maybe the 4 Department of Labor should look at in terms of the 5 theme-park industry and attractions like 6 Howe Caverns. 7 The Department of Labor is charged with 8 permitting amusement-park rides and amusement-park 9 things that affect where people ride them. 10 And it's interesting, because the regulations 11 that the department works by are all over the place. 12 We acquired these -- these are big 13 12-foot-in-diameter rubber balls, inflatable balls, 14 that people get in and ride. 15 And we created -- they ride on a track much 16 like a half pipe, down a hill. 17 They're inside. 18 There's water in them, so the kids get in 19 them and they roll around inside the ball, and we 20 have about a 90-second ride at Howe Caverns. 21 There were no OGO balls in New York State 22 before we acquired this particular attraction. 23 And after we acquired it, we talked with the 24 person responsible out in Buffalo for permitting 25 this attraction. 1 She had no idea what we had, and didn't know 2 how to deal with it, so we asked her, Well, the best 3 way to look at this is to go online, look at the 4 YouTube -- look at YouTube with regard to these 5 things. 6 And she said, "I can't do that. 7 I'm not allowed to go on YouTube during the 8 day." 9 So we said, "Well, is it possible you 10 could -- tonight you could look at this, and see 11 whether or not you would be willing to permit these 12 balls to be used at Howe Caverns?" 13 In the meantime, we had acquired them, and 14 they were arriving at Howe Caverns to use. 15 So, she got back to me, and she said, "Well, 16 we might be able to permit that ride for one person. 17 We certainly are not going to look at it for 18 more than one." 19 It won't work for one person. 20 It wouldn't make economic sense. 21 And we tried to say, Well, you need to really 22 have more than one person in these attractions to 23 make them economically work. 24 And I tried to -- I tried to -- I said to 25 her, well -- she said, "Well, kids are going to be 1 bouncing around in there and they could be hurt. 2 And, you have water in there and a child 3 could drown, or a child could get asphyxiated with 4 the air in there." 5 And I said, "Well, ma'am, they're 90 seconds 6 in this ball, and there's about 20 gallons of water 7 in the bottom of the ball." 8 So she said, "Well, we might be able to look 9 at one person." 10 So I said, "Well, let me ask you a question; 11 do you manage, or do you regulate, you know, in 12 county fairs, and you have these big structures that 13 kids in get in and jump around in, you know, the big 14 balloon structures, and things?" 15 She said, "No, we don't regulate that." 16 I said, "So if a county fair, or a 17 municipality has a fair like that, you don't go in 18 and look at the attraction and monitor that? 19 Because it seems to me that children could be 20 much more susceptible to getting banged around in 21 one of those things than they would in what I'm 22 talking about." 23 "No, we don't monitor that." 24 So then I, said, "Well, at the Great Escape 25 at the hotel water park up there, they have what is 1 called a 'flow rider.' And the flow rider, the kids 2 get in the top of the flow rider, and it's a wall of 3 water, and they're on the water, on a board, and 4 they fall off that and the board could hit them in 5 the head or whatever." 6 And she said, "No, that's not in our 7 jurisdiction, either." 8 So I think one of the problems with the 9 Department of Labor is a consistency, at least to 10 me, in, you know, what are you going to regulate, 11 and what aren't you going to regulate? 12 So having said that, she said, "Well, I'll 13 have to look at this attraction and see whether it 14 would make sense or not." 15 We said, "That's fine." 16 So they sent down three representatives from 17 the Department of Labor to look at what we had done 18 after we had built the -- we built the path. 19 And we were convinced that we could get up to 20 three people approved, because it looked to us like 21 it wouldn't be a problem. 22 Well, they came down there in the fall of 23 last year, and the three fellas who were there said: 24 All right, there are four things you need to 25 do for us to approve it for three people. 1 And they gave us a list of four things that 2 we needed to do, and they said: 3 We'll be back in the spring and we'll give 4 you the permit. 5 And we said, "That's great, thank you." 6 In the meantime, we had gotten the facility 7 insured. 8 We had no trouble with our insurance company, 9 and the carrier's willingness to insure this 10 attraction. 11 So they came back in the spring. 12 And during the entire spring -- during the 13 months leading up to the spring, our operation 14 manager was attempting to get in touch with the 15 Department of Labor, to have them start to look at 16 some of more of the issues relating to the 17 OGO balls, and we couldn't get anybody on the phone. 18 The person who was responsible had some sort 19 of an injury that spring, and he wasn't there, and 20 they had nobody else who would be willing to talk to 21 us. 22 So we went through the entire period with 23 nobody responding to us from the Department of 24 Labor. 25 In the meantime, we had an event. 1 We had an event scheduled for June 8th, which 2 was going to be the opening of this attraction, and 3 we had -- we were going to have the press there and 4 our local Assembly person and State Senator, and 5 others there, to cut the ribbon, if you will, and 6 get this thing started. 7 It wasn't till -- this was on a Saturday. 8 It wasn't until Friday, after many, many 9 calls and very frustrating situations, that the 10 Department of Labor sent a person down. 11 He looked at what we had accomplished, again, 12 at their request, and at the end of it, he said, 13 "Well, I'm not going to give you your permit to 14 operate until you get me a letter from your engineer 15 telling me how much water you're putting in each 16 ball." 17 And we said, "Where's this coming from? 18 So what was going on here, they were making 19 up rules on the fly. 20 This guy was making up rules as he went. 21 "Well, I think the parking lot needs to be 22 changed. 23 You need to put barriers up along the fence." 24 The purpose of the fence was to keep the 25 children and the people in a particular line and 1 away from the traffic. 2 And we said, "Well, what kind of a barrier? 3 What are you talking about?" 4 "Well, we don't want cars to run into the 5 fence." 6 Well, we said, "They're not going to run" -- 7 "they're not" -- "the parking lot isn't anywhere 8 near the fence." 9 So, we finally got him through that, and then 10 he said, "I'm not going to approve this until we get 11 something from your engineer." 12 Our operations manager got him on the phone, 13 with our engineer who had designed much of the 14 track, and who had worked very diligently on working 15 out the weight issues with the balls, because they 16 require some weight in order to be able to roll 17 freely, which is the water weight. 18 So our engineer said: 19 Well, I -- he was doing something else, we 20 had no idea, and we were opening the next day. 21 And he said, "Well, okay." 22 Our engineer said, "I will get this over to 23 you as soon as I can. 24 How long will you be there?" 25 The person from the Department of Labor said, 1 "I'm leaving in 20 minutes. 2 I won't be back." 3 And we said, "Well, we're opening tomorrow. 4 We have to have the permit." 5 He said, "Well, I'm not going to be here. 6 I have two other stops to make." 7 We finally got the engineer's report, which 8 was fairly lengthy and detailed and appropriate for 9 an engineer. 10 He's not just going to sign some report, you 11 know, that is not thought out and responsible. 12 So he finally got there about five. 13 The representative from the Department of 14 Labor was long gone. 15 I got back to the person in Buffalo and said, 16 "You got to help us here. 17 We have a big opening tomorrow." 18 And she said, "Well, no, we can't do that. 19 He doesn't work after five, and I'm not doing 20 anything either, so there's nothing we can do about 21 it." 22 And we said, "Well, we're opening tomorrow." 23 So I said, "Well, we're opening anyway." 24 So she said, "Well, you're going to end up 25 with a $4,000-a-day" -- "a-day-per fine if you open 1 this attraction." 2 And I said, "Well, okay, if that's what we 3 have to do, we don't have a choice. 4 We cannot not open with all these people 5 lined up to come here, and all the money that this 6 company has spent to do it, and your man doesn't 7 show up until the day before, after many, many 8 requests, and then imposes a new regulation on us 9 that we can't possibly meet, and then goes home." 10 So, we opened. 11 And shortly after that, I got a letter from 12 the Department of Labor that we were going to be 13 paying a $4,000-a-day fine. 14 We told them that we weren't going to do 15 that. 16 We were simply not going to pay the fine, and 17 they could do what they had to do, but, it wasn't 18 happening. 19 So, that's the issue. 20 To me, the Department of Labor issues are as 21 follows, based on my experience: 22 They're -- in the spring of the year, the 23 theme-park industry, and places like Howe Caverns, 24 need to have enough people at the Department of 25 Labor, so that the department is responsible, and 1 can get out and look at these attractions and -- 2 that are subject to regulation, and get them 3 approved, or note the deficiencies and come back, so 4 that the owners of these attractions can get them up 5 and operating in a timely way, because these seasons 6 are usually Memorial Day through Labor Day. 7 Maybe you get a little bit of the shoulder 8 seasons each way, but not much. 9 And, so, they need more people. 10 And they need -- if they give you a set -- if 11 the Department of Labor gives you a set of criteria 12 which you must meet to get your attraction open, 13 then that has to be it. 14 They can't come along later, after a company 15 has spent money complying, and then making 16 regulations up on the fly. 17 That's unfair, and inappropriate. 18 So, my two comments are: 19 It has to be staffed properly in the spring 20 when people are trying to get their attractions 21 open; 22 And they should have consistent rules which 23 apply to the Department of Labor, particularly in 24 this area. 25 So, hopefully you'll address that at some 1 point. 2 SENATOR MARCIONE: Okay. 3 Thank you, John. 4 JOHN LEMERY: Okay? 5 SENATOR MARCIONE: We appreciate it very 6 much. 7 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you. 8 SENATOR MARCIONE: Thank you. 9 JOHN LEMERY: You're welcome. 10 SENATOR MARCIONE: We appreciate it. 11 We're falling a little bit behind our 12 time frame. 13 We had hoped about 15 minutes a presenter. 14 We're getting a little bit behind, but I have 15 two presenters who want to join together -- in fact 16 there are three, and that will be: 17 Michael Hoffman, who is the president of 18 Turf Hotels; 19 Also, Jan Chesterton, who is the president of 20 the New York State Hospitality Association; 21 And, Cynthia Hollowood, who is the general 22 manager of the Holiday Inn in Saratoga Springs. 23 So, welcome to all of you. 24 JAN CHESTERTON: Great, thank you, and good 25 morning. 1 I want to start by thanking Senators Valesky, 2 Gallivan, and Marchione for this opportunity to 3 discuss rules and regulations and mandates that 4 affect the tourism industry in New York State. 5 As mentioned, I'm Jan Chesterton, president 6 of the New York State Hospitality and Tourism 7 Association, called "NYSH&TA," and I also serve as 8 the administrator of the Tourism Industry Coalition 9 of New York State. 10 With me today I have, Cindy Hollowood, 11 currently, general manager of the Holiday Inn in 12 Saratoga Springs, and currently serves as the 13 chairman of the board of our association; 14 And, also, Michael Hoffman, 15 hotel owner/operator and president of Turf Hotels in 16 Latham. 17 The New York State Hospitality and Tourism 18 Association is the oldest association -- lodging 19 association in the country, founded right here in 20 Saratoga Springs in 1887. 21 We have nearly 1400 members, representing 22 hotels, motels, bed & breakfasts, and currently 23 represent about 70 percent of the room inventory in 24 New York State. 25 As you've heard from some of our members, and 1 also members of the tourism and industry 2 professionals, this industry faces numerous 3 regulations and mandates that are real obstacles to 4 doing business in New York. 5 I'll touch on just a few of the broad 6 concerns, and then defer to the real operators to 7 speak more specifically based on their day-to-day 8 experiences. 9 First of all, Wage Theft Prevention 10 Notification: 11 NYSH&TA applauds the Senate for its annual 12 passage of lifting the notification requirements 13 related to the Wage Theft Protection Act. 14 The notification requirement is tedious, 15 time-consuming, and a waste of business resources, 16 and provides nothing to a company's ability to run a 17 successful business. 18 We feel that it's redundant and unnecessary, 19 and by eliminating it, you are doing nothing to 20 jeopardize the employees' production. 21 We will continue to support the Senate, as 22 well as urge the Assembly to act, to make businesses 23 become more efficient in their allocations of their 24 rare resources. 25 Communication with various state agencies, 1 which you've heard prior to this, representing a 2 wide range of members within the hospitality and 3 tourism industry, our businesses come in contact 4 with many different state agencies. 5 This industry, like most in the state, are 6 responsible to report, request, and apply for a 7 variety of things: permits, safety measures, 8 inspections, licenses, tax information, and so on. 9 Not all state agencies are user-friendly and 10 updated with their access with their online forms, 11 and, oftentimes, it causes confusion and delays, and 12 sometimes it just makes it plain harder. 13 For an example: 14 Tax and Finance quarterly sales-tax reports 15 are often changed, and then, many times, the new 16 systems don't function accurately, and then it 17 becomes difficult to get assistance from the 18 department, either by phone or online, just to find 19 a workaround so that the reporting can be done. 20 Many times, the solution is to send their 21 schedule by regular mail, to back up what they've 22 already done online, which, again, is not very 23 efficient. 24 The trouble -- this double work could be 25 avoided and is totally unnecessary. 1 If there was a system in place for handling 2 these questions, and was made available -- the 3 answers and the operation of these new systems were 4 made available in advance to the businesses that are 5 required to report. 6 Another example that has been difficult for 7 our businesses, is the ability to advertise their 8 businesses in areas of high regulations, such as the 9 Adirondacks and Long Island. 10 While we take great pride in promoting and 11 marketing the state and its attractions, it's often 12 impossible to obtain signage to advertise along our 13 main highways due to the strict regulations to 14 obtain the necessary permissions, particularly 15 Interstate 87 North and Long Island. 16 And, lastly, a comment on business taxes and 17 associated costs: 18 As an industry, we are appreciative of the 19 recent efforts by the State to make New York open 20 for business; however, New York State business tax 21 levels are still the most difficult and highest and 22 uncompetitive with other states. 23 Worker's compensation and 24 unemployment-insurance costs are a major concern 25 with our industry, and we pledge, as an association, 1 to work with the State to reform these programs, 2 some that are already under way. 3 I will echo the gentleman that spoke on 4 behalf of Howe Caverns, and the need for -- we also 5 represent the amusement-park and attraction industry 6 in New York as well, and Howe Caverns is our member. 7 And we echo the need for increased staffing 8 prior to the summer season. 9 Again, New York State is very much a 10 summer-tourism region, not to speak poorly of the 11 ski seasons, but, ramping up that State help from 12 the Department of Labor and their staffing is -- 13 certainly would be beneficial. 14 So while this is not an exhaustive list of 15 our regulatory burdens and mandates that the 16 industry faces, it is a snapshot and a pulse of our 17 membership on the areas that they need help with. 18 As you move forward to finding ways to lift 19 restrictions, I offer our assistance, our 20 association and our members, to help provide 21 additional examples for specific issues that are 22 facing the industry. 23 So thank you once again for the invitation, 24 and I'd like to offer Cindy Hollowood, our chairman 25 of the board, for more specific comments, and then 1 Mr. Hoffman as well. 2 SENATOR MARCIONE: Thank you. 3 CYNTHIA HOLLOWOOD: Thank you. 4 Some of the comments that I'm going to share 5 with you today come from consumers, guests of my 6 hotel, my associates around the state, particularly 7 Upstate New York, and what we're seeing, as far as 8 the transient tourism environment, and concerns we 9 have, you know, certainly through our state 10 association, but also as operators. 11 The taxes themselves on gasoline, many times, 12 across the summer, over the front desk, I've heard 13 out-of-state people comment about the price of our 14 gas as compared to our neighboring states, because 15 of the additional taxes that we have on a per-gallon 16 basis. 17 As a hotel that is continually evolving and 18 trying to update to stay competitive with all the 19 growth we have coming into our county, the last time 20 that I did an addition on the hotel, and I'm 21 preparing to do another one of commercial space, 22 several times, because we are in a very restrictive 23 historic district, we need building-code 24 interpretations, and those interpretations from the 25 Department of State can be -- can take a long period 1 of time. 2 As you know, there's only certain times of 3 year that we're able to do building in 4 Upstate New York, because of the weather, and 5 because of my busy season. 6 And sometimes, if we're not timely, we will 7 miss a whole building cycle because we can't get 8 that interpretation. 9 I've heard -- I have not had a personal 10 experience in recent years. 11 Going back a number of years, it took 8 to 12 12 weeks. 13 And I've heard others around the state tell 14 me that it takes a minimum of 4 to 8 weeks. 15 Tourism themselves, I know you've heard 16 before about the funding stream, and the revolving 17 loan fund. 18 We seem -- our tourism, while there is some 19 attention being paid to it now, continues to be 20 behind the eight ball. 21 Promotions are always late coming, 22 publications are always late coming. 23 The summer programming, you know, didn't hit 24 till the middle of June when travel plans were 25 already made. 1 Just not -- not this past weekend, but the 2 weekend before, I spent 27 hours in the car over the 3 course of 3 days. 4 I visited six states, and I went in 5 two different directions, south first, and then over 6 to Rhode Island. 7 And, the only state that I found 8 rest-areas/stops closed was our great state of 9 New York. 10 Every other state had every rest area 11 closed [sic], and they were all busy. 12 I know that, back a year ago or so, after a 13 fight, our two gateway rest areas were open, and 14 this followed, at one point they were closed. 15 They said it cost $800,000 to keep those two, 16 the one in the Binghamton area and the one in North 17 Country. 18 So those -- I did notice when I traveled this 19 past time, that the Binghamton-area one was open, 20 but up along the 88 Corridor and I-90, in rural 21 Rensselaer County, that one remains closed. 22 And it's not very welcoming for people coming 23 in from another state, that they don't have a 24 comfort station. 25 The New York State Department of 1 Transportation, the exit signs, the directional 2 signs that advertise gas, attractions, and lodging, 3 they're very poorly maintained and they are not 4 updated. 5 There's often closed businesses listed on 6 them. 7 A lot of them need to be replaced or 8 repainted. 9 And, also, the Department of Transportation 10 does not bill properly. 11 Sometimes I'll get three years worth of bills 12 for them, because they forgot to bill the first 13 two years. 14 And, certainly, as a revenue stream that you 15 should be taking advantage of. 16 One other item relevant to our region: 17 The NYRA capital projects, which are supposed 18 to be the monies that are -- that our racing is 19 going to benefit from, the distribution of the VLT 20 funding. 21 Today's consumer, when they go to the 22 historic Saratoga Race Course looking -- look for 23 things that they see in other venues, there's an 24 extensive 27-item capital project that they hope to 25 do at historic Saratoga Race Course as a result of 1 the funding from the VLTs. 2 I understand all that money is now put on 3 hold. 4 I don't know the reasoning for it, but, 5 certainly, today's fans are looking for things like 6 luxury boxes and sports bars. 7 And those are part of the things that they 8 hope to replace, certainly, in a very planned and 9 historic nature. 10 But because the funding is put on hold, we 11 understand there will be no capital improvements of 12 such, that will generate more revenue, not just for 13 our community and for racing, but also for the state 14 of New York. 15 That it's put on hold for 2014, and I really 16 don't know what the reason for that is. 17 And, certainly, funding for the arts is very 18 important to our community, and they need to stay 19 competitive. 20 Our Saratoga Performing Arts Center and 21 Proctor's Theaters are finding that, with other 22 options out there, that they're not getting the 23 funding and the support that they need from the 24 State of New York. 25 Thank you. 1 SENATOR MARCIONE: Thanks, Cindy. 2 Mike. 3 MICHAEL HOFFMAN: Thank you, Senator, for 4 giving me this opportunity. 5 And, you know, my name is Mike Hoffman. 6 I live in Saratoga Springs, but we have two hotels 7 in the -- one in the town of Colonie, one in the 8 town of Guilderland, one here in Saratoga Springs, 9 and one in Lake George. 10 So, you know, we build hotels within 30 miles 11 of where we live. 12 We're a hands-on operator, and we just don't 13 get too far away, because we're just not one of 14 those companies. 15 And I've got a lot of friends that have 16 hotels in nine or ten different states, but, that's 17 just not the way we do. 18 We try to build really fine hotels, we try 19 and build high quality, and it's worked pretty good 20 for us. 21 But, I thought before I got into some of the 22 things, I'd answer some of the -- you know, there's 23 been some tremendous presentations going on, and 24 they're all right. 25 I mean, the problem is, they're all right. 1 Liquor license, I do think it's getting 2 better. 3 You know, I have a project in Colonie, that 4 we expect to get a building permit this week or next 5 week. 6 I've been working on it for 18 months. 7 So, soon, I will be trying to get a liquor 8 license. 9 But in my life, I've had eight liquor 10 licenses, and I will tell you, every time I've had 11 to go get fingerprinted. 12 I can't understand why I got to have a new 13 fingerprint sheet every time I do it. 14 And then they always ask you where the 15 money's coming from. 16 I mean, I think it's back to the mob days. 17 They think I'm into prostitution or drugs or 18 something else, but it's -- you know, we've earned 19 it. 20 We've worked hard, and we've earned it as a 21 family. 22 I have read that it's gotten better, but 23 I will be able to answer pretty accurately down the 24 road. 25 The SEQRA form, it's gotten crazy. 1 It's not -- our -- we've spent on our 2 3.97 acre in Colonie, $111,000 so far in 3 engineering. 4 It's really filling out that SEQRA form. 5 And it's -- you know, they're in 6 hard-to-develop sites, and I'm not complaining, but 7 it's just too much. 8 And, you know, I sit back and say that I'm a 9 hotel person. 10 That's really what I am. 11 And -- but I'm sitting here with Jan, I said, 12 "I used to be in the hotel business. 13 Now I go to meetings." 14 And we go to meetings, and then we develop a 15 project. 16 You know, we, generally, my little company, 17 Turf Hotels, does a hotel project about every 18 five years. 19 So, I'm not a developer. 20 So, I think if you're a developer, you just 21 get caught -- you know, you just go through the 22 process. 23 You wake up in the morning, you're a 24 developer and you do it full-time. 25 I'm one of those guys that jumps into the 1 development business every five years, so I see it a 2 little differently. 3 And I can tell you, all it's done is, it 4 takes longer and it costs more, and that is just as 5 a fact as long as the day is long. 6 I was -- now, before I get into my comments 7 here, I got a few more. 8 You know, I heard Todd say, you know -- you 9 know, what we really need is "I Love NY" to have a 10 consistent program so you know what kind of dollars 11 you are going to have. 12 In my 35 or 38 years of doing this, we've had 13 $22-million-dollar "I Love New York" budgets, we've 14 had $3-million-dollar "I Love NY" budgets. 15 You never know what it is until you get it. 16 And, can you imagine, if you were trying to 17 run a business and you didn't have any idea what 18 your funding was going to be next year? 19 Can you imagine, if it's two months before 20 the end of the year, and you say, I wonder if 21 I ought to try and do this, or if they're going to 22 slash my funding and I'll be hanging out there? 23 I mean, you can't keep great talent, you 24 can't retain talent, you can't get talent; and, yet, 25 when tragic, you know, 911 happened, one of the 1 great things New York State did, is it got 2 $40 million ponied together from the Port Authority 3 and "I Love NY," and they advertised and said 4 New York is the place to come to. 5 You know, we've had this horrible thing, but 6 come to New York. 7 And New York recovered from 911 quicker than 8 anybody else. 9 So when there was real trouble, they leaned 10 on advertising and talent, and then, all of a 11 sudden, that kind of came back and the money goes 12 away. 13 It's -- you know, I just really don't 14 understand why we can't have a -- somehow, a 15 consistent budget to advertise "I Love NY," and -- 16 because everybody knows it works. 17 We know that tourism is the fifth largest 18 business in the state. 19 We know there's 700,000-plus people that work 20 in the tourism business; yet, we -- you know, it's 21 like 5 or 6 million bucks this year. 22 I mean, not that 5 or 6 million bucks isn't a 23 lot of money, but to advertise New York around the 24 world, it's nothing. 25 Nothing. 1 Anyway, one of my pet peeves is, you know, 2 when I go to planning boards and I go to meetings, 3 is I say, "I want to build a hotel." 4 And they say: Oh, you're going to hire those 5 kind of people. 6 You know, because the hotel business, 7 generally, is a low-pay industry. 8 And there's a lot of truth in that. 9 You know, we don't pay minimum wage, but we 10 pay a little over minimum wage. 11 And as minimum wage goes up, our wages go up 12 a little bit; and that's all right. 13 But I want you to understand our business a 14 little bit. 15 In a typical hotel that we run, we have 35 or 16 40 employees. 17 There will be a general manager making 18 somewhere between seventy-five and a 19 hundred thousand dollars. 20 Not a bad wage. 21 There will be somebody running the front 22 desk. 23 You know, a front-desk manager. 24 There will be a housekeeper, a housekeeping 25 manager, a sales manager, a maintenance manager; and 1 they're all making forty, plus or minus, thousand 2 dollars. 3 And then the rest of the staff often is not 4 overly paid. 5 I'll be the first to tell you. 6 I wish could I pay them more, but if we're 7 the only ones that change, all we'll do is put 8 ourselves out of business. 9 But my point is, we often take people that 10 have no skills. 11 They're on social services. 12 To be a success in the hotel business, you 13 need to work hard and you need to be honest. 14 If you come in with a personality and be 15 honest, you got a future. 16 My GM at our Homewood Suites on Wolf Road has 17 worked for me for 32 or '3 years. 18 I hired him as a banquet bus boy. 19 He makes $100,000 a year. 20 Our Homewood is ranked Number 6 in the 21 country, out of three hundred and twenty-five or 22 thirty. 23 I can go on and on about stories about this. 24 We had a dishwasher that we made our 25 purchasing agent. 1 He was honest. 2 He worked hard. 3 He kept the dishwasher clean. 4 He wanted to advance. 5 And we had a purchasing position. 6 And as we got a few more hotels, when he 7 left, he was doing the purchasing for five hotels. 8 I remember he was from Turkey. 9 He said to me, "I don't think I can do it. 10 My English isn't too good." 11 And I said, "Canon [ph.], they will learn 12 Turkish." 13 Believe me when I tell you, it worked. 14 He bought, he fought for good prices. 15 We paid our bills. 16 He developed. 17 But there's all kinds of them. 18 We've all got those stories. 19 They just go on and on and on, because, while 20 it's nice to be educated, and it's nice to go to 21 hotel school, and I watch these young kids come out 22 and get -- that have that luxury of that education, 23 if you want to work hard in our business, and you 24 don't look at your watch 100 percent and say, "It's 25 5:00, I got to go home," there's a great future in 1 it. 2 I mean for me, it's been a great business. 3 I didn't go to hotel school, but I've sure 4 worked hard. 5 And I think, as the minimum wage goes up, and 6 I'm not really even advocating this, I'm just 7 telling you a story, that we used to hire a bunch of 8 young kids. 9 And I was thinking about Willard Mountain. 10 And if you're in -- you know, that's exactly 11 right, if you're an hour late -- or not an hour 12 late, but a minute late, you can get a 13 couple-thousand-dollar fine. 14 But that's what they do to you. 15 The minute there's a mistake, I mean, you 16 know, we're in this business, and sometimes it gets 17 busy, and, you know, you say, Well, geez, can you 18 stay another 20 minutes? 19 Well, now you -- you know you're giving poor 20 service, because you're sending your staff home so 21 you can have -- so you don't get a $2,000 fine. 22 And it's a hard -- all these businesses are 23 hard. 24 You don't have to make it. 25 Many of them don't. 1 And we work really hard to try and, you know, 2 to take care of and to run our businesses. 3 And I think, honestly -- general comment, 4 probably get me in trouble -- but, the work ethic 5 isn't as good as it used to be. 6 When you've been around as long as -- we used 7 to hire people and everybody worked hard. 8 Today it's all different. 9 So -- and I think these young kids, often 10 their first job they get is when they come out of 11 college. 12 They have no clue on how to work. 13 They don't know what the bosses expect. 14 They don't know how to dress. 15 They don't know any of that stuff. 16 And to be honest with you, our industry does 17 a lot of that. 18 And, one by one, that's kind of going away, 19 and it's a shame. 20 And, you know, people should have pride in 21 what they do. 22 Anyway, I, uhm -- it angers me when I hear 23 we're creating "those jobs," because I think the 24 jobs we create are great, and we got a great team of 25 employees, and they work really hard together and we 1 cover the business; it's 24 hours a day, it's 7 days 2 a week, and, it works pretty well. 3 I'd also want to talk a second just about the 4 Department of Labor. 5 You know, about -- in 2010, the Department of 6 Labor came out with a new hospitality wage order, 7 and that took a couple years to get. 8 I mean, in the -- Dan Murphy, Jan's 9 predecessor, was on the group that worked on that 10 wage order. 11 And I don't exactly remember, but there was 12 two union representatives from New York City. 13 There was a group of six that were trying to 14 put this thing together. 15 There were two union reps out of 16 New York City. 17 There were two people from the Department of 18 Labor -- New York State Department of Labor. 19 There was Dan Murphy, and I don't remember 20 who the -- 21 JAN CHESTERTON: And somebody from the 22 Restaurant Association. 23 MICHAEL HOFFMAN: -- and somebody from the 24 Restaurant Association. 25 And they worked hard, and they got it 1 together, and they came out with the wage order, 2 which was different. 3 And then we had seminars, and you would go to 4 seminars and you would learn how to -- you know, 5 with the new changes, so you would be in compliance 6 with the law. 7 And some people, me being one, got an audit 8 from the federal Department of Labor. 9 It came out of the blue. 10 And to be honest, there hadn't been many 11 audits in the area from the federal Department of 12 Labor. 13 So when they came in, they looked at all our 14 stuff, and they said, "You're not doing this right." 15 And I said, "Oh, yes, we are." 16 And, I mean, my control was really very good 17 at this, and I said, "No, no, we are. 18 You can see it right here, this is the law. 19 This is the new wage order. 20 We're exactly right." 21 $14,000 later, we were wrong. 22 So I went to an attorney and said, "This kind 23 of stinks." 24 And the $14,000, by the way, went to 25 employees. 1 It wasn't a fine; it went to employees. 2 And the federal Department of Labor had a 3 different reaction -- or, an interpretation than the 4 way New York State wage order. 5 So, great, let the employees have it if we're 6 wrong, but never do we do something wrong on 7 purpose. 8 And if we were wrong -- but -- so, anyway, 9 I have this audit from the federal Department of 10 Labor. 11 And, so, I talked to an attorney about it, 12 and he said, "Yeah, I think I can win for you, but 13 it's going to cost you more to win than 14 grand." 14 So you just pay it, and you move on. 15 And, you know, that's wrong. 16 You know, I run my whole life about fairness, 17 and those with the power aren't always fair. 18 And I listen to these stories that I hear out 19 there, and I just know they're true. 20 I mean, the sad part is, they're true. 21 One other incident that I'll just tell you 22 about that drives me crazy. 23 Pools in New York State, if -- you know, it's 24 almost impossible to have lifeguards. 25 Most every hotel in New York State has a 1 pool -- or many. 2 I don't want to say most all. 3 The way you get around it, is you have a pool 4 that's not 5-feet deep. 5 If your pool is under 5-feet deep, there's no 6 lifeguard required. 7 You have a sign that says "No lifeguard, swim 8 at your own risk." 9 When you check in, we say "There's no 10 lifeguard." 11 We say, "If you're gonna have a child in 12 there, they got to be accompanied by an adult." 13 I mean, there's all kinds of rules. 14 When you check in, on your keep tag in the 15 pocket are the rules. 16 And -- but, recently, and this kills me, by 17 the way, I have a hotel where there was a group of 18 people, you know, several adults in there, talking, 19 while their kids were swimming. 20 One of them was a 9-year-old boy that didn't 21 know how to swim. 22 We didn't know that, but the parents did. 23 And the kid went underwater. 24 And when we figured out there was trouble, we 25 yanked him out, we called 911. 1 The Colonie police were right on the street, 2 they were there in seconds. 3 Our maintenance person knew CPR, so we gave 4 him CPR. 5 When we did all the right stuff, water came 6 out of the nostrils. 7 We felt pretty good about ourselves thinking 8 that we saved a life. 9 And -- and, uhm -- so, anyway, the -- and 10 then the emergency med people came, the cops came; 11 they took over the CPR, and they took the kid to the 12 hospital. 13 And that was on a Saturday night, and he died 14 six days later. 15 And -- so what you get is, you know -- so 16 there's been a report from the police department: 17 absolutely no negligence on the hotel. 18 There's been a report from the 19 Health Department: no negligence on the hotel. 20 And believe me, when we have anything 21 horrific -- and we think this is the best hotel in 22 Albany County, by the way -- but, when anything 23 happens in our hotels, we have a meeting, and we sit 24 back with our team and say: 25 What could we do better?" 1 How can this happen? 2 What do we gotta do? 3 And the only answer we can come up with is to 4 close the pools, because we didn't do anything 5 wrong. 6 We checked the family in. 7 It's a -- just -- it's what you call a 8 horrible, tragic accident. 9 I mean, it's as bad as it gets. 10 It makes me -- I could throw up when I think 11 about this. 12 It's the worst thing that could ever happen 13 to us, and I understand what it's about when you 14 lose a child, so, I, uh -- I understand that very 15 much. 16 And so what do we get from the 17 Health Department? 18 A fine, because we didn't notify them in 19 24 hours. 20 And I went to the hearing and protested it. 21 I said, you know, I don't really care about 22 the thousand dollars. 23 I care that we're being -- that's not the 24 answer. 25 It just angers me. 1 It's pouring salt on a wound. 2 I said, "To be honest with you, it was in the 3 front page of the newspaper the next morning, so you 4 really were notified." 5 And they said, "You're right, I saw it in the 6 newspaper." 7 So, you know, to be honest with you, our 8 hotels know you're supposed to notify. 9 If you have an incident, you're supposed to 10 notify the Health Department in 24 hours. 11 My problem is, my GM was on vacation. 12 My assistant GM, who's been with us for 13 seven years, and a terrific person, just, she didn't 14 know. 15 Our fault we didn't train. 16 I'll take the blame. 17 But that's what they do to do you; the minute 18 you make a mistake, they fine you. 19 You're never -- you're never, "It's okay." 20 It's never, "Next time." 21 It's the minute you do anything, out comes 22 the fine, and you pay your fine. 23 I, mean, I protested it. 24 I'm not sure where it's gonna go. 25 I think I had their attention. 1 I don't know what they're going to do. 2 They were gonna go back and talk to their 3 boss. 4 But if I could bring this young kid back, I'd 5 pay 100 times that. 6 But it doesn't solve nothing. 7 It just makes me angry with New York State. 8 And -- anyway, I, uh -- our industry, you 9 know, it's a great industry, but we take logical 10 business chances. 11 We put our thoughts together, we put our hard 12 work together, we put our money in, and then you 13 work your butt off, and you hope it works. 14 And there's no guarantees. 15 And all of these things that I've heard that 16 take people's time away from their business. 17 Inventorying; figuring out how much beer is 18 in a half a keg, and in a keg, and that's like the 19 stupidest thing I ever heard. 20 And we waste so much of our time doing stuff 21 that just takes away our day, and takes away what we 22 do to try and make a living. 23 And in some cases, people fail over this 24 nonsense, and it's a shame. 25 So I applaud you for trying to get rid of it, 1 or some of this nonsense. 2 There's a lot out there. 3 A thousand regulations does seem like a lot 4 to get rid of, but now that I've heard you, maybe 5 it's not just -- but it's just a start. 6 And, you know, honestly, in whatever and 7 which way we can help, we would be proud to. 8 SENATOR MARCIONE: Thank you, Mike. 9 Thank you Jan and Cynthia. 10 We appreciate it. 11 We do have some questions. 12 Senator. 13 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Yeah, thank you all for 14 your testimony. 15 Mr. Hoffman, going back to the hospitality 16 wage order, there are a couple of questions. 17 First, the federal audit, did the federal 18 government say -- I mean, was New York State's 19 regulation in conflict with the federal regulation? 20 MICHAEL HOFFMAN: Yes. 21 And then, you know, you always go to the 22 strictest, if there's conflicting municipalities or 23 codes or -- you always go to the strictest rule. 24 And, you know, to be honest, in our case, and 25 I dare say in most every case here, that I'd never 1 had a federal audit. 2 And so when they came, and then they pulled 3 out stuff -- we went to the -- you know, I have -- 4 we went to the -- as a matter of fact, I said to 5 you, you know, I was chairman of NYSH&TA at the time 6 we were doing some of these seminars, and because it 7 just came out, and we had New York Department of 8 Labor up on stage, on the panel, so we could -- and 9 once this happened, we started -- we were trying to 10 get the department, and we needed the federal 11 Department of Labor to also be there, because you'd 12 get them into some conflicting things. 13 I wrote a question two years ago -- and I say 14 this: 15 You can't argue too much with the 16 Department of Labor. 17 I mean, they come back at you. 18 So I wrote some questions, and went out 19 there, and I chased them a little bit, and then 20 I finally just said, "Mike, leave it alone." 21 All I'm gonna do is get myself in trouble, 22 and -- 23 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Does this have to do with 24 the service charge, gratuity; that language? 25 MICHAEL HOFFMAN: It has to do with 1 discretionary and non-discretionary wages. 2 It's an offshoot of what you're talking 3 about, service charge and gratuity. 4 There was no issue there. 5 The -- it just became an offshoot of that, 6 and I can really get my controller, I mean, before 7 I say something incorrectly. 8 It was an offshoot of that. 9 SENATOR GALLIVAN: I was more interested in, 10 if the state's new wage order being in conflict with 11 federal. 12 MICHAEL HOFFMAN: Still is. 13 I mean, to be honest, I read -- you know, 14 I'll be reading the newspapers, and I'll see 15 somewheres in the newspaper, that some restaurant or 16 some hotels are having the same issue that we did. 17 We changed to be in compliance with the 18 Department of Labor, which we think -- and it has to 19 do with overtime, which we think gives us a 20 competitive disadvantage in this arena. 21 But to be honest, if you don't have 22 overtime -- all of my problems kicked in, if you had 23 overtime, and how overtime was calculated. 24 And the easy way to prevent that is not to 25 have overtime. 1 We have a hotel in Lake George, New York. 2 You know, our season is the summer season. 3 Come August 15th, the college kids all go 4 back to school, and sometimes we have overtime. 5 And to be honest, the employees love the 6 overtime. 7 And I'm kind of the one who says, "Make hay 8 when the sun shines." 9 So, you know, the opportunity's not always 10 there, and, certainly, in Lake George, the door 11 closes. 12 But it's how to calculate the wage, and the 13 New York State and federal are conflicting. 14 SENATOR GALLIVAN: So then you talked about, 15 you learned about the change in the wage order from 16 seminars that the state association put on. 17 If you were not part of the state 18 association, how would you find out about the 19 change? 20 Or would you find out about the change? 21 MICHAEL HOFFMAN: Well, I mean, that's really 22 the problem, because you go to these New York State 23 Hospitality and Tourism, and 70 percent of the 24 hotels in New York State, we got are our members, or 25 75 percent. 1 And -- but if you're not, you know, you're 2 always preaching to the choir. 3 Those that are not part of the organization 4 or association, or those that didn't go to the 5 seminar, it's almost impossible to find out. 6 And that's the problem for small business. 7 You know, we're not big business, but we're 8 bigger than some of the small business. 9 And, small business, you're doing it all 10 yourself. 11 You can't leave your store, you can't leave 12 your hotel, you got a business to run. 13 SENATOR GALLIVAN: So if the State makes a 14 change on anything, say you have to have a license 15 for something, then the State knows that you're 16 operating in that business, and say the regulatory 17 agency changes some regulation, do they notify the 18 licensees of the change, or are you left to find out 19 for yourself? 20 CYNTHIA HOLLOWOOD: I think -- 21 SENATOR GALLIVAN: No, again, if you're not 22 part of the association -- 23 CYNTHIA HOLLOWOOD: -- they do send you 24 notice -- 25 SENATOR GALLIVAN: -- I understand the 1 benefit of the association. 2 CYNTHIA HOLLOWOOD: -- they do send you 3 notice. 4 If you -- like, if you have a liquor-license 5 change, or whatever, there used to be a formal 6 written notification. 7 There may be something similar -- you know, 8 smaller now, or just an e-mail, say, you know, Click 9 on here, because, you know, there's regulatory -- 10 And then there's proposed changes that we 11 usually get notification of, and then they get 12 delayed -- 13 SENATOR GALLIVAN: As a business -- 14 CYNTHIA HOLLOWOOD: As a business. 15 SENATOR GALLIVAN: -- or as part of the 16 association? 17 CYNTHIA HOLLOWOOD: As part a business. 18 I'm talking about, as an individual business. 19 So, I would say, yes, that that does happen, 20 but I think it's happening in different forms. 21 It used to be just a flyer across your desk. 22 Now it's probably, in many instances, 23 electronic form. 24 I can't think of one, off the top of my head, 25 but I would say, yes, because, before -- I mean -- 1 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Of course, if you weren't 2 notified, you wouldn't know. 3 CYNTHIA HOLLOWOOD: Right, right. 4 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Okay. 5 CYNTHIA HOLLOWOOD: I've run the hotel for 6 32 years, and I've been involved with the 7 association for about 15, so, prior to that 10, 8 I'm -- we've always been members. 9 But, sometimes the information does comes 10 from the State. 11 As a matter of fact, my husband runs a 12 not-for-profit, and they do fulfillment of 13 notifications like that. 14 Mailing fulfillments, you know, out to the 15 general public, and to -- 16 SENATOR GALLIVAN: All right, so if any of 17 you can recall, going back to your individual 18 businesses or your member businesses, not what the 19 association did; so, the wage-order change, that had 20 to do with the language on the contracts regarding 21 the service charge -- what's a service charge and 22 what's a gratuity, were you notified -- do you 23 recall being notified of that, as an individual 24 business -- 25 CYNTHIA HOLLOWOOD: There were lots of 1 notifications through the Restaurant Association, 2 through Hospitality and Tourism, through our chamber 3 of commerce. 4 There were -- 5 SENATOR GALLIVAN: But from the State, do you 6 recall -- 7 CYNTHIA HOLLOWOOD: -- but whether or not the 8 State of New York, I don't, off the top of my head, 9 recall that. 10 But, again, being involved in -- the business 11 council was involved in it. 12 We had -- I testified at a hearing about 13 that, for the business council, so, it's hard for me 14 to remember whether it was -- 15 JAN CHESTERTON: It was a massive publication 16 that came out, because it wasn't just 17 specifically -- 18 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Oh, it was part of 19 something -- 20 JAN CHESTERTON: -- yeah, it was part of a 21 whole, how everything, because it had taken the 22 restaurant and hotel, and combined it into one, 23 which kind of blended a lot of different elements to 24 create an entirely new hospitality wage order, which 25 we're anticipating will be done again with the new 1 increase in minimum wage, because the carve-out for 2 the tip wage or the cash wage within the 3 minimum-wage legislation needs to go back and be 4 readdressed again. 5 So we're certainly hopeful that we have the 6 support of getting our association, which represents 7 the restaurant and hotel industry, at the table 8 again, to be part of the logical voice at the table, 9 in terms of how this will affect the industry. 10 SENATOR GALLIVAN: All right, thank you. 11 SENATOR MARCIONE: Thank you. 12 Thank you so much. 13 We appreciate you being here, and thank you 14 for your testimony. 15 Next we have Mark Eagan, who is the president 16 of the Albany-Colonie Regional Chamber of Commerce. 17 Welcome, Mark. 18 Nice to see you. 19 MARK EAGAN: Thank you; same here. 20 And, is that on? 21 And good afternoon to all of you, and thank 22 you for taking the time today. 23 And I'm sure your stomachs are probably 24 starting to grumble at this point. 25 So -- and I think, as being one of the -- 1 sort of the cleanup speakers, I could probably say a 2 lot of ditto, ditto, ditto. 3 So, really, on some of the issues, I'll touch 4 on the issue, but not describe the issue, because 5 others have done it, and I don't want to be 6 repetitive if I don't need to be. 7 And I think some of my comments are going to 8 not just be about regulation, but, really, some 9 things that I think what the State is doing well, 10 and maybe some places I think the State can be doing 11 better, as it relates to hospitality and tourism. 12 And as you folks know, hospitality and 13 tourism, it's about jobs, it's about tax revenue, 14 and it's about people having fun, and how do all 15 those things blend together. 16 I guess on some areas, on a positive side, 17 that as the State has looked at economic-development 18 strategies, a couple years ago, it rolled out the 19 regional councils, that it's nice to see that, now, 20 hospitality and tourism are part of that mix. 21 Because at the beginning, it was sort of a 22 little bit of an afterthought, and I can speak for 23 even the Capital Region Council, they even now have 24 a subcommittee on hospitality and tourism, so we 25 really see that as a good sign. 1 I think it was -- I think Christine had 2 mentioned it earlier, I think sometimes the State 3 looks and says that the tourist -- tourism districts 4 don't work well together. 5 I mean, how do we get them to work well 6 together? 7 How to get them to compete with each other? 8 Well, just that statement alone competes with 9 each other. 10 And I think that the truth is, most of our 11 regions are, tourism organizations within the 12 greater region really work well together. 13 So you're not just talking about those in the 14 Capital-Saratoga Region as a tourism district, but 15 down in the Hudson Valley, because I think we 16 realize, for visitors, there are no town or there's 17 is no county lines; it's where is the experience 18 that they want to have? 19 So I think that's another good thing. 20 But a note from that, as it relates to the 21 Regional Economic Development Councils, that, 22 oftentimes, what the State describes as "a region," 23 for this group, it's this region; for this group, 24 it's another region. 25 So in that case alone, what they consider 1 tourism districts, and what they consider the 2 district for the regional councils, are different. 3 So I think, going forward, the more that all 4 of those, and even with different state departments, 5 can align, I think the better for all those looking 6 to serve. 7 I know there was discussion earlier about 8 "I Love NY." 9 It's obviously very important. 10 It's been underfunded for years. 11 If -- and that's the case where, you know, 12 every study has been done: the amount of money you 13 spend, a lot more comes back. 14 And we also know that the grant program, 15 particularly for a lot of our smaller counties, that 16 grant program is critical. 17 And so, we support that, and we support 18 increased funding for that. 19 The guidelines for those grants, I don't 20 believe have been updated for a long period of time. 21 And if you look a lot of our tourism 22 organizations and how they do marketing today, you 23 know, there's a lot of online, there's a lot of 24 social media, and I think it's just barely touched 25 on. 1 So, it might be time to dust off those 2 guidelines and say, How can we really have New York 3 and our local communities compete with what we have 4 for marketing-communication tools today? 5 A couple other things that I'll just touch on 6 quickly, because I think other speakers have 7 mentioned: 8 We are also strong advocates, our 9 organization, for bikes on the Amtrak trains. 10 You know, I think that my colleague earlier 11 spoke about the support for direct access off of 12 Exit 4, off of the Northway. 13 I know some of you are not right in the 14 immediate Capital Region, but the 15 Albany International Airport is obviously so 16 important for us for economic growth; yes, for our 17 leisure travelers, but also for our corporate 18 business. 19 And there's very few airports in the country 20 that don't have direct access from a highway to an 21 airport, and, unfortunately, we're one of those, and 22 that does relate to tourism. 23 The other piece, that I had a meeting prior, 24 so I wasn't here at the beginning, so I'm not sure 25 if it was discussed, but I would like to mention it: 1 As we're going through the questions on the 2 ballot this fall, and one of them will be tied to 3 casinos. 4 And, you know, often -- you know, part of the 5 reason the State looks to casinos, is because it 6 will drive revenue for the state. 7 And some can look and say, How does casinos 8 also serve as part of, maybe, your tourism product 9 in the community? 10 And we think it can be. 11 But the other piece that I wanted to mention 12 is, that when we look within our local community, 13 and we look at arts and culture, and the importance 14 of arts and culture as it relates to our citizens, 15 most importantly, but, also, as one of the products 16 for our tourists; that within the Capital Region, 17 all of our primary arts and cultural offerings are 18 presented by our non-profits. 19 Whether it's SPAC, whether it's the 20 Glens Falls Civic Center, whether it's Palace, 21 whether it's Proctor's, whether it's the Times Union 22 Center in downtown Albany, whether it's the 23 Troy Music Hall, the concern we have with casinos, 24 going forward, is not the casinos, but casinos that 25 have performance venues. 1 Because what's going to happen is, those 2 performance venues can have a competitive advantage 3 over all of our local organizations that I spoke of. 4 Because of casino revenues, they can 5 subsidize all the acts, which means they can pay the 6 performers more, or they can charge less for 7 tickets, and I think that that can undermine the 8 community-based organizations that really add to the 9 quality of life and provide arts and culture in our 10 community. 11 So while this forum today is to talk about 12 what regulations should be done away with, this is a 13 case where I would encourage you to look, because 14 for all of those other communities across our state, 15 the same issue applies, and this might be some 16 regulation that's necessary. 17 Or when the RF- -- if it goes through, and 18 it's supported by the voters of New York, as the 19 RFPs are issued, is how do we weigh that in, and, 20 you know, should there be performance venues? 21 If so, what size should they be? 22 How should they be regulated so local 23 communities and local arts organizations don't 24 suffer? 25 The other -- again, and I'll touch on them 1 quickly because others did, so I won't get into the 2 detail, but the wage theft prevention is a big 3 issue, not just for tourism-related businesses, but 4 all businesses. 5 The whole issue about prevailing wage 6 mandates; Scaffold Law; these issues that have been 7 talked about for years directly impact the cost of 8 doing business in New York, and, really, in many 9 cases, just create unnecessary costs and are a waste 10 of time. 11 I commend you folks for hosting this forum 12 today, and the key is, what can happen after this? 13 And if there's ways that we can be helpful, 14 we want to. 15 You're probably aware, at the same time, that 16 there were a meeting in this room; the Governor is 17 announcing a tax relief commission. 18 A couple years ago, I know I was asked to 19 testify at a mandate-relief commission, but to my 20 knowledge, I've seen very little has come out of 21 that commission. 22 I hope things will come out of that 23 commission. 24 I hope things will come out of this 25 tax-relief commission, and I hope some meaningful 1 progress can come out of the input that you receive 2 today. 3 So, thanks for the opportunity to be here. 4 SENATOR MARCIONE: Well, thank you so much. 5 We appreciate it. 6 Thank you. 7 SENATOR VALESKY: Thank you, Mark. 8 No, I don't have anything. 9 SENATOR MARCIONE: Our last speaker is 10 Scott Wexler. 11 He's the executive director of the Empire 12 State Restaurant and Tavern Association. 13 Mr. Wexler, thank you for being so patient. 14 We look forward to hearing from you. 15 SCOTT WEXLER: Thank you, Senator Marchione, 16 Senators Gallivan and Valesky, the last speaker. 17 So if -- and I'm representing another segment 18 of the hospitality industry, so we want to be 19 sensitive to your desire to enjoy hospitality in the 20 Saratoga Region. 21 As the Senator said in the introduction, 22 I represent the Empire State Restaurant and Tavern 23 Association. 24 Our membership includes a broad variety of 25 businesses across the full spectrum in the 1 hospitality industry and all parts of the state. 2 Almost all of our members are single-store 3 operators. We used to call them "mom-and-pop" 4 operators back in the day, but they're local owners 5 who live, work, and reinvest in their community. 6 Frankly, earlier this morning, when I was 7 listening to Mr. Wilson from Willard Mountain, 8 that's who I represent with the Tavern Association. 9 They're hard-working, they're passionate 10 about their business, and they're experts at 11 something other than complying with government laws, 12 rules, and regulations. 13 And I think a tenor or the tone for this 14 whole session I've heard today, is the disconnect 15 between the people who make the regulations, enforce 16 the regulations, and attempt, frankly, usually in a 17 good-natured, earnest effort, to explain the 18 regulations to the people that have to live with 19 them. 20 It's not about not engaging us. 21 Our associations and representatives are 22 usually at the table. 23 Unfortunately, we're not on the telephone 24 when Mr. Wilson calls us, they're talking to 25 someone, and it's not about education. 1 I mean, it's not about education. 2 There are members in our industry that have a 3 high degree of education or a very low degree of 4 education. 5 It really is about perspective and about 6 understanding. 7 I know that the three of you sitting here 8 today get that because of the work that you've been 9 doing. 10 So -- and while I am here today to talk about 11 future efforts, I do want to begin by thanking you 12 for the work you've done already, with your partners 13 in state government, to benefit the industry. 14 Holding the line on state taxes; enacting the 15 property-tax cap, which has helped control the 16 growth of local taxes, property taxes, which, as you 17 heard during the forum today, a significant 18 cost-driver for small businesses; and keeping 19 economic development and job creation at the top of 20 your priority list is really quite important, and we 21 can't emphasize that enough. 22 So thank you for the work you've done. 23 I'm glad you're not tired or resting on your 24 laurels, because, as you've heard, and as you will 25 continue to hear, there's a lot more to be done. 1 From our members' perspective, the single 2 thing that we pay most attention to is the state's 3 alcoholic-beverage control laws and the State Liquor 4 Authority. 5 These rules, Senator Gallivan noted earlier, 6 they're antiquated. 7 The State had a commission to study the 8 rules, and they recommended that the State develop a 9 more reasoned, thoughtful, and coherent policy for 10 regulating alcohol beverages. 11 This process has begun. 12 The Legislature enacted laws. 13 Senator Little was the co-sponsor of a bill, 14 to allow for more flexibility in issuing temporary 15 permits. 16 And, also, Senator Marcellino carried the 17 bill, to give the Liquor Authority more regulatory 18 flexibility, so they could help make some of these 19 problems go away. 20 I'm pleased to say that there's been real 21 progress. 22 Not too many years ago, it took six to 23 nine months to get a liquor license in 24 New York State. 25 Today, that backlog is practically eliminated 1 upstate, and it is substantially reduced downstate. 2 So that's real promise. 3 And the Liquor Authority, the chairman and 4 his staff have really gone a long way to attempt to 5 use the new authority they've been given in a 6 thoughtful way. 7 Unfortunately, in our business, most of the 8 issues that the SLA has, or we have with the SLA, 9 not all of them, but most of them stem from the 10 statute. 11 And, so, we really have to appeal to you in 12 the Legislature to change the law, either to give us 13 the change we need or to give the Liquor Authority 14 the flexibility. 15 Senator Gallivan, as you well know, you 16 started down this path earlier this year; 17 Some of the bills came out of 18 Senator Valesky's Committee; 19 And, Senator Marchione, you were supportive 20 of all of them; 21 So you all deserve credit for the work that 22 has been started. 23 Already this year, Senate 352, which is now 24 Chapter 224 of the laws of 2013, eliminates the 25 violation for having fruit flies in 1 alcoholic-beverage containers, and it requires that, 2 in order for a violation for contaminated liquor or 3 adulterated liquor, there has to be an intentional 4 act. 5 So you want to understand this: the law said 6 you can't contaminate or adulterate your liquor. 7 The idea was not to water-down the booze or 8 to pass off a low-quality product for a high-quality 9 product. 10 But that regulatory mindset found a way to 11 take what was essentially a health-code violation 12 and make it a fee-and fine-generating issue for the 13 Liquor Authority. 14 Our members used to suffer fines of $1,000 or 15 more, and they used to hear SLA investigators talk 16 about the bounty of $100 per fruit fly in the fine, 17 not to the investigator, but that the agency would 18 collect. 19 Now, the current leadership at the authority 20 stopped targeting fruit-fly violations several years 21 ago, but investigators were still required to cite 22 the violations when discovered. 23 This change now means that the business 24 owners won't be subject to those costly fines. The 25 bottles will be thrown out, and locations that are, 1 in fact, health concerns will be referred to the 2 appropriate health authority, who, frankly, should 3 be paying close attention to those businesses as 4 well. 5 Senator Gallivan has introduced a series of 6 other bills to address some of the antiquated 7 provisions. 8 I just want to mention four of them very 9 briefly: 10 Senate 351 extends the hours of sales for 11 alcoholic beverages on Sunday mornings and on 12 Christmas. 13 We would love to be able to be able to serve 14 you a mimosa or a Bloody Mary at 10:00 in the 15 morning on a Sunday, but it's against the law in 16 New York State. 17 Senate 353 clarifies the enforcement of the 18 health code is the province of the state and local 19 health departments, and not the SLA investigators. 20 Senator Valesky may remember when one of the 21 local health departments in his area regularly 22 referred smoking violations to the Liquor Authority, 23 because the fine for violating the Clean Indoor Air 24 Act was less than the fine the Liquor Authority 25 would impose on the bar. 1 Senate 356 allows liquor stores to jointly or 2 cooperatively purchase alcoholic beverages, to make 3 larger purchases; and, therefore, be able to save 4 money on the cost, lowering their cost of doing 5 business. 6 And, Senate 1440 permits liquor stores to 7 sell alcoholic beverages to restaurants and bars, 8 and vice versa. 9 Another priority bill for the association is 10 Assembly 1370 by Assemblymember Cahill. 11 This bill provides similar joint or 12 cooperative purchasing privileges for on-premise 13 licensees to those in Senator Gallivan's Bill 356. 14 Providing our members with the ability to buy 15 smarter, as allowed by Senate 1440 and 16 Assembly 1370, is our top legislative priority. 17 Small restaurants and taverns are subject to 18 pricing disadvantages under the current system. 19 You might be surprised to find that it's not 20 uncommon to go to a liquor store and find the shelf 21 price, the retail price, for a bottle of alcoholic 22 beverages, spirits, to be lower in the liquor store 23 than the bar or restaurant can purchase from their 24 wholesaler. 25 Now, I won't take the time at this forum to 1 go into the long history of the ABC practices, but 2 the two bills that I've mentioned -- in fact, to 3 Senator Valesky, there's a joint constituent that we 4 have, that actually keeps track on his laptop of the 5 prices that he has to pay for the beverages that he 6 buys from his wholesaler where there is no 7 competition, and what he can buy at his liquor 8 store. 9 It is astounding how much you could do to 10 help these businesses cope with the other high costs 11 of doing business, just by amending those statutes. 12 We also believe legislation should be enacted 13 to give the Liquor Authority discretion to issue 14 liquor licenses, when they're within 200 feet of a 15 school or place of worship. 16 I do not mean here, when a church or a 17 synagogue or a school is opposed to such a location, 18 but, the Liquor Authority has no jurisdiction, they 19 have no discretion. 20 And under the interpretation of the law, if 21 the building fits the definition, a business can't 22 open. 23 As we speak, the City of Beacon is fighting 24 to get licensed a local establishment, a very 25 prominent establishment, because the building near 1 it falls into this interpretation, although, it's 2 not zoned as a place of worship, it's not viewed as 3 a place of worship by the city. 4 And I will say, the Liquor Authority isn't 5 doing anything wrong here; it is just the statute. 6 And so we urge you to consider that; and, 7 again, particularly when the local government and 8 the local community thinks it's favorable. 9 I'm by no means suggesting we try to run over 10 local input. 11 We also would look forward to legislation to 12 allow pools in bars and restaurants. 13 Not the kinds of pools my friend Mike Hoffman 14 was talking about, but the kind of wagering activity 15 where no money is taken. 16 Every Sunday, thousands -- hundreds of 17 thousands of people participate in these kinds of 18 activities. 19 The NCAA March Madness basketball, I dare say 20 I've seen pools in many locations that you or 21 I might frequent. 22 But if you have such a pool -- and they're 23 illegal, by the way, in all of those locations. 24 They're, technically, illegal, but local law 25 enforcement doesn't object to those, doesn't enforce 1 those. They focus on serious gambling. 2 And we'd like you -- I think that would be 3 helpful legislation. 4 I've talked about statutes. 5 That's not to say that there aren't 6 regulatory or administrative actions that impact our 7 members. 8 In spite of many improvements, there are 9 several at the Liquor Authority I'd like to cite. 10 The first is compliance, and I think this 11 goes across all agencies. 12 Earlier speakers talked Labor Department, the 13 Health Department. 14 Compliance programs are really more like 15 discipline programs or punishment programs. 16 They seem to exist to collect fines and 17 penalties. 18 Mr. Wilson mentioned he's afraid to be 19 five -- an employee being five minutes late clocking 20 out, because he would get a $2,000 fine. 21 I have a member who got a $1500 fine from the 22 Liquor Authority, because he was seven minutes 23 late -- one of his employees was seven minutes late, 24 clearing a partially consumed container of alcoholic 25 beverages off the premises. 1 So, there's just doesn't seem to be any -- 2 the rule -- the compliance programs don't seem to be 3 about helping folks understand the rules and to gain 4 compliance, the way, maybe -- I know I try to parent 5 with my children, yes, I punish them, but I try to 6 make them teachable moments, so in the future, 7 they'll behave more like the way I'd like them to. 8 Unfortunately, nearly 30 years representing 9 these small-business folks, what it does is, make 10 them angry at government, as you heard several of 11 your of the prior speakers, and it makes them think 12 about whether they should comply with any rules, 13 because the penalty is so severe, they may as well 14 be like some of the real nasty competitors who don't 15 follow the rules. 16 Another area with the Liquor Authority, lots 17 of great changes. 18 One change that's not so great is method of 19 operation. 20 Anytime an owner seeks to make a change in 21 how they run their business, it requires the prior 22 approval of the State Liquor Authority. 23 This, to me, is a classic overreach. 24 Clearly, if you submit plans to the 25 Liquor Authority and you say you're going to operate 1 a restaurant, and you're going to serve food from 2 11 a.m. to 9 p.m., and you deviate from that plan 3 and start becoming more like a bar or a nightclub, 4 that, to me, is clearly a case where we all would 5 want the Liquor Authority to have to review that 6 plan in advance and make sure it's suitable. 7 But just because some changes require prior 8 approval, I don't think all changes should require 9 prior approval. 10 We actually had a member given a warning for 11 being closed one night, when his filing with the 12 Liquor Authority said he was open. 13 The investigator apparently was there for 14 some other reason, to investigate some complaint, 15 and was annoyed, as we hear the story, that the 16 business -- he made the trip and the business wasn't 17 open. 18 And they got a formal letter of warning for 19 not being in compliance with their filed method of 20 operation. 21 It turned out that being open past 7:00 at 22 night in that particular location didn't seem 23 profitable to that business owner. 24 And, no, the Liquor Authority didn't send 25 notices out to the businesses telling them about 1 that. 2 In fact, I find that to be a fairly typical 3 case; again, across all agencies. 4 It is highly unusual that the business owners 5 get notifications. 6 One notable example that does come to mind is 7 the Tax Department. 8 When the Tax Department told Mr. Wilson about 9 the floor tax, he did get a notice from them, 10 because they -- you know, they did take the trouble 11 to let him know that he had to go count his 12 inventory so that the State could capture all of the 13 increased taxes that they deserved. 14 Third issue I want to touch on, in terms of 15 regulations with the SLA, is catering permits. 16 If one of our members is invited to cater an 17 event off site, a private party, you need to get 18 approval from the Liquor Authority 15 days in 19 advance of that event. 20 I want to be clear: 21 The authority staff has been flexible when 22 they can, but the judgment about whether to grant 23 that license within the 15 days is a judgment call 24 by each individual staff person at the 25 Liquor Authority, based on their understanding of 1 the facts in the situation. 2 So, for example, if Mr. Valesky only called 3 me last night, to book the party, one person at the 4 Liquor Authority may consider that to be timely 5 notice from the business owner and appropriate that 6 I filed so quickly. 7 Another person might think that I should have 8 told Mr. Valesky he can't have that party, and he 9 should go to a liquor store, buy the liquor, and 10 serve it himself. 11 So, again, most of these rules that we talk 12 about, they make sense in the abstract. 13 They're reasonable when you view them from 14 the offices or a conference room of the regulators, 15 and, in some cases, the legislators that have 16 sponsored and advanced the legislation. 17 Now, there are a number of other regulatory 18 and administrative issues of concern to our members, 19 but since they impact the broader areas, I'm going 20 to testify, you're going to get to see my smiling 21 face next Monday at the hearing in the Hudson Valley 22 on small-business owners. 23 And, there, I'll be talking about sales-tax 24 compliance; 25 The Labor Department's treatment of musicians 1 as employers, even though they might actually be 2 independent contractors; 3 And the overly broad definition of 4 security guards that has turned every bouncer at a 5 bar, and almost turned every server, into a licensed 6 security guard. 7 So I look forward to continuing the dialogue 8 with you next week. 9 And, again, thank you so much for your 10 invitation, and for your patience listening to all 11 of us this morning, and now this afternoon. 12 SENATOR MARCIONE: Thank you so much. 13 Your test testimony was really very good. 14 Any questions? 15 SENATOR GALLIVAN: I do have one. 16 Thanks, Scott, for being here. 17 And, also, I mean, you made mentioned some of 18 these laws. 19 We appreciate your help as we were doing the 20 research and putting them together. 21 But one question, and it has to do, you gave 22 the example of, one of your members could go to a 23 liquor store -- often go to a liquor store and buy a 24 bottle of vodka for lower cost than he can get from 25 the wholesaler. 1 Are the same wholesalers selling to the bar 2 owners and the liquor stores? 3 SCOTT WEXLER: Yes. 4 Let me -- for the record, I didn't speak 5 about any specific bar owner -- 6 SENATOR GALLIVAN: No, I understand -- 7 SCOTT WEXLER: -- [unintelligible], because 8 that's against the law. 9 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Got you. 10 And I said, "vodka." I know you didn't. 11 But, for example -- 12 SCOTT WEXLER: It happens to be my drink of 13 preference, but that's not significant. 14 Yes, and the beer industry and the wine 15 industry are different than the spirits industry in 16 New York. 17 And I will try not to give you an extended 18 primer, but, in the beer industry, although we 19 principally have two major brewers in the country 20 now, or serving in the country, and that's 21 Anheiser-Busch and MillerCoors, there are -- and 22 we've gone from 150 beer wholesalers in the state, 23 to about 40. 24 There are still 40 beer wholesalers, and 25 although they all sell the same products, if I can 1 make a better deal with the wholesaler in your 2 district than the wholesaler in my area, which may 3 be Senator Valesky's district, I'm allowed, by law, 4 to go to those wholesalers and buy that product. 5 Doesn't happen very often. 6 There's also a third -- another thing called 7 "Class C" beer wholesalers. 8 We think of them as beverage distributors or 9 beverage centers. 10 A lot of these locations are actually dually 11 licensed as wholesalers and retailers; 12 And particularly in metropolitan New York, 13 this is a very active part of the business. 14 It helps keep mainline wholesalers honest, 15 both in terms of pricing and service. 16 It's much different -- and, in wine, you 17 probably have 100 different wine wholesalers, all 18 having a little niche of the wine industry. 19 In New York we have two liquor wholesalers, 20 and they don't cross the lines with the products 21 they sell. 22 If I want to buy -- if the liquor store or a 23 bar wants to buy a bottle of Ketel One vodka, there 24 is one wholesaler who they can buy it from. 25 And the same -- so there's -- there is no 1 competition. 2 And, in fact, Senator, the logic that we 3 thought that was behind your bill that we helped 4 work on, is that, it, frankly, just follows what's 5 been happening in our wholesale system. 6 The wholesale -- we no longer have sales 7 people in the wholesale liquor industry. 8 We have order-takers. 9 They no longer come to visit our bars and 10 restaurants to talk about the products. 11 They now mail you a promotion or e-mail you a 12 promotion, and then you call it in. 13 That's not the case on the liquor store; that 14 has to do with the market. 15 So they come to our places -- God forbid if 16 you're in Senator Little's district in the 17 Adirondacks, you know, in the North Country -- they 18 come there once every week or two weeks. 19 So if you run out of a bottle -- if you run 20 out of Ketel One, your choices are, to ignore the 21 law and go to the liquor store to buy it, or to wait 22 two weeks. 23 So the thought is behind your bill, and, 24 also, if you merged your liquor-store bill with 25 Assemblymember Cahill's bill for cooperative buying 1 for on-premise locations, you allow the small liquor 2 stores who are struggling to compete against the big 3 warehouse liquor stores to have a way (a) to reduce 4 their costs, and also to open up a market. 5 And then you give our folks an opportunity to 6 reduce their costs, and it's not -- it's not, 7 arguably, hurting. 8 Might there be some marginal impact on these 9 big liquor wholesalers? 10 Two liquor wholesalers in New York State. 11 They are Number 1 and Number 3 in the country, in 12 terms of the liquor wholesalers. 13 They're great people, they do great business. 14 We think this is a fair way to help them and 15 help the business owners. 16 I'm sorry, but the liquor law is so obtuse 17 and antiquated, sometimes it requires a lecture to 18 give you a short answer. 19 [Laughter.] 20 SENATOR GALLIVAN: So the answer is "yes." 21 Got it. 22 Thank you. 23 I'm good. 24 Thanks, Scott. 25 SENATOR VALESKY: Just one issue, Scott. 1 First of all, thank you very much for your 2 outstanding testimony. 3 And now that we know you're gonna visit us 4 again on Monday, perhaps, as we assemble the list, 5 we'll find you somewhere other than near the end; 6 okay? 7 We'll endeavor to make sure that you're much 8 closer to the top of the list on Monday. 9 I just have one question, and you didn't 10 touch on at all, but I did want to visit it, just 11 briefly, primarily, because I and a number of my 12 colleagues, as you know, have spent a great deal of 13 time in recent years, and legislative effort, in 14 terms of promoting local products, and, in 15 particular, in regard to your members and this 16 industry, the New York Wine industry, the 17 craft-brewery industry, and now I have a bill that 18 is waiting to go to the Governor's Office regarding 19 cidery, and the cidery legislation. 20 So I'm just curious, from your -- from the 21 perspective of your members, has the work that we 22 have been doing, have you seen an impact in terms of 23 what we are doing in these areas, in terms of the 24 products that your members are selling? 25 SCOTT WEXLER: There's no question -- there's 1 no question about it, Senator, that that work is 2 well worthwhile, and we're seeing the impact. 3 From a customer base, there's a tremendous 4 interest in locally grown, locally produced. 5 And it's fine, whether it comes from the 6 farmer's market or from the grocery store or from 7 your wholesale supplier. 8 We have a lot of work to do in terms of 9 education of the industry owners, and if -- and our 10 suppliers, to get it more into the supply chain, but 11 it's very worthwhile. 12 And, by the way, we see it, also, if those 13 businesses are more successful, then we have more 14 customers who are able to spend the money. 15 And that's, I think, a theme that runs 16 through this entire forum today, but the hospitality 17 and tourism industry really benefits, all of the 18 things you and your partners in government have done 19 to reduce the cost or make things easier to do 20 business, because when people have more money in the 21 pocket, they love to spend it, and they spend it in 22 our places. 23 So we have more work to be done. 24 And again, particularly, I'm -- tomorrow -- 25 tomorrow afternoon, Governor Cuomo is hosting an 1 Oktoberfest, a "Taste New York Oktoberfest," down at 2 Brooklyn Brewery. 3 Of course, that could have been held up in 4 your district, Senator Valesky. 5 It's the only criticism I have of the event. 6 [Laughter.] 7 SCOTT WEXLER: But events like that, and the 8 ones that you are all doing in your own districts, 9 are really more of what we need so we get these 10 folks, the reporters here, to cover them, so the 11 community knows it and we gain the awareness. 12 SENATOR VALESKY: Okay, thank you, Scott. 13 SCOTT WEXLER: Thank you. 14 SENATOR MARCIONE: Thank you, Mr. Wexler. 15 We appreciate you being here. 16 Again, I'd like to thank Quad Graphics for 17 hosting us today. 18 Thank you, Dan, so much. 19 And thank every single one of you who took 20 your time out of your schedules to be with us. 21 The insights you shared today will be a key 22 part of our efforts to deliver real regulatory 23 relief for a less costly, more affordable New York; 24 one with more jobs and opportunities for everyone; 25 just what we heard from you today. 1 Thank you very much. 2 (Whereupon, at approximately 12:48 p.m., 3 the public forum on Hospitality/Tourism Regulatory 4 Reform held before the New York State Senate 5 Majority Coalition concluded, and adjourned.) 6 ---oOo--- 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25