Public Hearing the Regents Reform Agenda: "Assessing" Our Progress

1 BEFORE THE NEW YORK STATE SENATE

STANDING COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION 2 ------------------------------------------------------ 3 PUBLIC HEARING 4 THE REGENTS REFORM AGENDA: "ASSESSING" OUR PROGRESS 5 ------------------------------------------------------ 6

Senate Hearing Room 7 250 Broadway 19th Floor,

New York, NY 10007 8

October 29, 2013 9 10:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. 10 11 PRESIDING: 12 Senator John J. Flanagan

Co-Chair 13

Senator Simcha Felder 14 Co-Chair, New York City Subcommittee on Education 15 16 SENATE MEMBERS PRESENT: 17 Senator Martin J. Golden 18 Senator Brad Hoylman 19 Senator Elizabeth Little 20 Senator Jack M. Martins 21 Senator Toby Ann Stavisky 22 Senator Cecilia Tkaczyk 23 ALSO IN ATTENDANCE: 24 Assemblywoman Michelle Schimel 25 1

SPEAKERS:PAGE QUESTIONS 2

Merryl Tisch 8 13 3 Chancellor

Ira Schwartz 4 Assistant Commissioner

New York State Board of Regents 5

Michael Mulgrew 48 60 6 President

Carol Gerstl 7 Attorney/Legal Counsel

United Federation of Teachers 8

Shael Polakow-Suransky 91 98 9 Chief Academic Officer, and 101 108

Senior Deputy Chancellor 10 New York City Board of Education 11 Lisa Shaw 145 181

Parent 12 (no other affiliation) 13 Nancy Cauthen 145 181

Parent 14 (no other affiliation) 15 Karen Sprowal 145 181

Parent 16 (no other affiliation) 17 Dr. Monty Neill, Ed.D. 184

Executive Director 18 National Center for Fair and

Open Testing (FairTest) 19

Marco Battistela 184 20 Member of Steering Committee

Time Out From Testing 21

Deborah Rayow 199 22 Vice President, Core Curriculum

and Credit Recover 23 Edgenuity 24 25 1

SPEAKERS (Continued): PAGE QUESTIONS 2

Nathalie Eilvert 199 3 Director of Educator Outreach

Tenicka Boyd 4 Director of Organizing

StudentsFirstNY 5

Ernest Logan 217 224 6 President

Mark Cannizzaro 7 Executive Vice President

Council of School Supervisors and 8 Administrators, Local 1 9 Leonie Haimson 230

Executive Director 10 Class Size Matters 11 Zakiya Ansari 230

Advocacy Director 12 Alliance for Quality Education 13 Stephen Boese 246 251

Executive Director 14 Learning Disabilities Association of NYS 15 James Merriman 254 258

CEO 16 New York City Charter School Center 17 Sheila Kaplan 260 270

Founder 18 Education New York 19 Tracy Pyper 272 287

Co-Chair 20 New York Alliance for Public Education 21 Rosalie Friend 272 287

NYS Information Coordinator 22 Save Our Schools 23 John Owens 288 309

Teacher, and Author 24 (no affiliation given) 25 1

SPEAKERS (Continued): PAGE QUESTIONS 2

Fred Smith 288 309 3 Retired Member of NYC Department

of Education 4 Testing Department 5 Nicholas Lawrence 288 309

Eighth-Grade Teacher 6 Member of Educators 4 Excellence 7 Dr. Ruth Powers Silvrberg, Ed.D. 312 322

Associate Professor, Coordinator, 8 Post Master's Advanced

Certificate Program for Leadership 9 in Education

College of Staten Island, CUNY 10 11 12 13 ---oOo--- 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And, a couple of very 2 basic things. 3 Actually, why don't we stand, and I'm going 4 to ask Senator Felder to lead us in the pledge of 5 allegiance. 6 (All participating in and present at the 7 hearing recite, as follows:) 8 "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the 9 United States of America and to the Republic for 10 which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, 11 with liberty and justice for all." 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you. 13 And today, everyone in this room pays 14 attention, so we are all acutely aware of what 15 happened a year ago. 16 I would respectfully ask for a moment of 17 silence for all the people who suffered last year, 18 and, frankly, people who are still suffering as we 19 meet here today. 20 (A moment of silence is observed.) 21 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you very much. 22 Let me start by introducing our colleagues. 23 To my right is Senator Tkaczyk, who has 24 attended one of the other hearings as well, up in 25 Syracuse; 1 Senator Felder, who is co-chairing this 2 hearing, and is the Chair of the New York City 3 Subcommittee on Education; 4 Senator Betty Little; 5 And, of course, Senator Marty Golden, who has 6 just arrived. 7 This room is a little different than some of 8 the other rooms we've worked in, and I appreciate 9 everyone's patience, among other things. 10 We are going to do a couple of very basic 11 things. 12 For anyone who has paid attention to the 13 other hearings that we've had, we started in 14 Long Island, went to Syracuse, went to Buffalo. 15 We are now, obviously, in the city of 16 New York, and have a hearing the 13th of November in 17 Albany. That will to be fifth and final hearing. 18 As we have previously mentioned, we will be 19 taking in all testimony. 20 Anyone who sends in e-mails or letters or 21 anything like that, it will all be made part of the 22 public record, and that will be closed out, 23 effective November 15th. 24 So if you want to put anything in after the 25 last hearing, feel free to do it, and we do know 1 that people are watching and listening, and we have 2 gotten hundreds of e-mails. 3 We've endeavored to put everything online as 4 quickly as possible. 5 The testimony that's in today should be up 6 online already. 7 And just in terms of format, I will do this 8 as politely and diplomatically as possible: 9 Nobody is going to read their testimony. 10 Everyone's competent to read on their own and 11 individually. 12 If you want to summarize, great. 13 If you read your testimony, I will politely 14 cut you off because we're here to have a dialogue. 15 We have a lot of diverse people joining us 16 today, and I think it underscores what we try to do 17 at these hearings; and that is, actually get public 18 input. 19 I will take credit, along with my colleagues, 20 we started having these hearings and announced them 21 long before anyone was doing any kind of public 22 forums, and these are formal public hearings of the 23 Senate Education Committee. 24 So we will listen intently, and I'm sure 25 people are going to have very cogent, succinct, and 1 comments that are on target. 2 Oh, I'm sorry. 3 We've been joined by Senator Hoylman. 4 And our first person who will be testifying 5 is the Chancellor, and I know I can't really see her 6 because of the pole right in the middle of the room 7 here, but, Chancellor Tisch, would you join us? 8 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: Good morning, 9 everyone. 10 It's really a pleasure to be here this 11 morning. 12 I am deeply aware that I sit before you, and 13 sit with you, during a remarkably complicated time 14 in the history of education and educational reform 15 in this country, and, for our particular purposes, 16 in the state of New York today. 17 As everyone in this room I think is acutely 18 aware, the Regents Reform Agenda, which is being led 19 by our very able Commissioner John King, is a 20 complicated conversation about raising standards for 21 all of New York; that means our entire state. 22 We are acutely aware that we are facing 23 enormous challenges as we have moved from the 24 twentieth century to the twenty-first century. 25 We are very aware of the fact that, as we 1 look at some of the indicators for success in a 2 system in which we spend $54 billion a year 3 statewide, it is incumbent upon us to consistently 4 question what we are doing, what our practices are, 5 what we need to change, what we need to modify. 6 In 2010, the State Education Department 7 decided that it was time to look at our graduation 8 rates, and what they really meant in terms of 9 students' ability to attain a -- what I believe is a 10 ticket to the future, which every child in this 11 state is entitled to by virtue of their citizenship 12 in the greatest state in this country. 13 And what we learned, that even though we were 14 reporting graduation rates that were 74 percent 15 statewide, when we looked at the remediation rates 16 that students were having in our two-year colleges, 17 we noticed that, in fact, statewide, 50 percent of 18 the students going on to two-year colleges needed to 19 be remediated. 20 That means that the taxpayers of 21 New York State were paying college tuition for 22 academic achievement that should have been put to 23 bed in high school. 24 In New York City, when we look at the 25 achievement rate by college- and career-ready, we 1 look at a rate that says 22 percent. 2 When we look at our special-education 3 students across this state, we see that very few of 4 them go on to have a future. 5 When we look at our English-language 6 learners, we see very few of them go on to graduate 7 high school in a way that prepares them to be part 8 of a twenty-first-century economy. 9 The Obama Administration embarked upon 10 something that was called Race to the Top. 11 Now, we can agree with the challenge grant or 12 we can disagree with the challenge grant, but 13 New York State knew what was coming down the 14 pipeline. 15 We knew that the attainment of Common Core 16 Standards, which was the next level of standards, 17 was going to be a critical part of what was going to 18 take place in terms of educational reform in this 19 country during the eight years of this 20 administration. 21 There were two ways to go: New York State 22 could compete and get resources to help us implement 23 Race to the Top reforms and common Core Adjustment, 24 or we could not compete. 25 We decided to compete, and we won a 1 $700 million grant to this state. 2 I would like you all to note that 45 states 3 have adopted Common Core. Only 11 of them have 4 received Race to the Top dollars. 5 Our decision was simple: Should we take 6 money from the federal government to help us 7 implement a reform that was going to be part of a 8 national conversation, and actually help our cities 9 and our municipalities with this adjustment, or, 10 should we not? 11 I think it made sense for us to compete for 12 these dollars and to use them appropriately. 13 Our reform was not only the adoption of 14 Common Core standards, but it was a very, very 15 serious look and challenge to our schools of 16 education and the preparation of our teachers. 17 We have put forth, I think, a very cogent 18 reform. 19 We are in the middle of implementation. 20 Yes, New York is leading the charge 21 nationally, and what we have gone through in this 22 past year as we've outlaid our Common Core tests, 23 I am the first to admit, has created a lot of 24 upheaval and displacement, but, we have also taken 25 very important steps to assure that our students and 1 our parents and our teachers can be part of this 2 conversation. 3 We applied for a waiver to the federal 4 government which said, since New York State is going 5 ahead and implementing Common Core testing, could 6 we, in fact, not identify anymore schools or school 7 districts for failure based on the first year of 8 implementation? 9 We got that waiver. 10 We are now going to be applying for a waiver 11 to the federal government to allow us some relief 12 when it comes to the testing of English-language 13 learners and special-education students. 14 We do not believe that the federal guidelines 15 which require students with special needs to be 16 tested at age level rather than competency level is 17 a way to conduct great policy. 18 We will be forcefully pushing for these 19 waivers. 20 We are going to be forcefully asking for 21 many, many types of federal relief to allow this 22 implementation to take hold. 23 But, I don't kid myself. 24 I think that what we have put forward 25 requires a lot of conversation, and a lot of ability 1 to listen, to adjust, to be thoughtful, to be 2 transparent, but I believe we are embarking on a 3 generational change, and generational changes often 4 cause upheaval. 5 It is never our intent to impose. 6 It is our intent to use public policy as a 7 critical tool to help our students, parents, and 8 teachers partake in a twenty-first century economy. 9 Thank you very much for this opportunity to 10 be with you here today. 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Chancellor, before we go 12 on, I just want to recognize, Assemblywoman Schimel 13 has joined us, she is sitting in the audience. She 14 is a passionate educational person. 15 And we've also have been joined by 16 Senator Toby Stavisky. 17 Toby, welcome. 18 And I also just want to let everybody know, 19 when these things go well, you know it never happens 20 in isolation. 21 So, we have really good support staff. All 22 the ability to see this and hear it and record it 23 properly, these gentlemen, who spent probably more 24 time traveling in their cars than anybody all over 25 the state, are very helpful to all of us. 1 So, want to thank them. 2 And, any of my colleagues have questions? 3 Senator Little? 4 SENATOR LITTLE: Yes. 5 Thank you very much, and thank you for your 6 comments. 7 I just want to note, I was really pleased to 8 see that the Regents is looking at substituting some 9 tests, and removing. 10 I mean, New York State has always been known 11 for their, you know, really rigid testing program 12 and standardization among our schools, but when 13 we've added all these other tests, I think it is so 14 overdone, and it's really difficult. 15 And as a teacher myself, and I would say, 16 even though I'm from way up north, I did have a 17 New York City permanent certification to teach 18 elementary school, which I'm sure has expired a long 19 time ago; but, nevertheless, I did teach in 20 Staten Island. 21 So -- but I think it's something that we have 22 to look at, and I also believe -- I mentioned this 23 at the other one -- that the results of these tests 24 need to come back to the teachers; not just an 25 analysis, but the actual results of the tests, so 1 the teacher who is working with these children now 2 knows who got it, who didn't; what she might be 3 doing wrong or he might be doing wrong in their 4 presentation; and how to reach out to these children 5 better. 6 If we really want the children to benefit 7 from the tests, rather than just collect data, 8 I think we have to do more than just give a general 9 analysis of these tests back to the teachers, so 10 that they see can just how each child understood 11 what has been taught. 12 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: We are very mindful 13 of the ability to use tests really for their 14 purpose, which is to inform instruction. 15 I would say that I think, this year, we 16 published 25 to 30 percent of the testing items. 17 The issue that we have to always keep in the 18 back of our mind is the costs of putting all those 19 items out there, and then having to do a whole new 20 test every year, and the amount of time that would 21 be required to field-test all of the new items. 22 So what we need to do is find the right 23 balance. 24 As we go forward, I am sure that we will 25 achieve the right balance, and, we are very 1 cognizant of that. 2 SENATOR LITTLE: But just as an example, we 3 had -- I represent 48 school districts, and one of 4 my teachers, and I heard this from the 5 superintendent, he had to put a violation in her 6 personal record because she took notes on the test, 7 and, you know, kind of made some notes to herself as 8 to things that were being asked, and how it was 9 being presented to the children. 10 And that just seems wrong. 11 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: I couldn't agree 12 with you more. 13 I think, you know, public policy, as I said 14 before, has to be a living and breathing thing. 15 And when we are made aware of these things, 16 it is our -- I think it is incumbent upon us to 17 adjust them. 18 But I want to also be clear, that along the 19 way to adjusting, we can't allow ourselves to be put 20 into a place where we fall back on old practice that 21 doesn't serve us well. 22 So I would say, Senator, yes, we should pay 23 attention to all of these things that you all hear 24 every day in your districts, because that's the 25 right thing to do. 1 But it is also the right thing for us, as we 2 adjust, to be mindful of the larger goals; and, so, 3 it's the balance. 4 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you. 5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Hoylman. 6 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Thank you. 7 And thank you for holding this important 8 hearing here in Manhattan. 9 And thank you, Madam Chancellor, for being 10 here today, and thank you for your leadership over 11 the years; it's greatly appreciated. 12 I represent part of Manhattan, and -- 13 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: We like Manhattan. 14 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Yes. 15 And there is a-- I'm in touch with a number 16 of public-school parents across my district. 17 I have a 2-year-old myself, she's not yet in 18 school. 19 But as I think you know, there's tremendous 20 anxiety among parents and children. 21 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: I'm kind of anxious 22 myself, so, believe me, I'm paying attention to all 23 the anxiety. 24 SENATOR HOYLMAN: And, uhm, for starters, you 25 know, the more information I think parents can learn 1 about the Common Core, the better, so forums like 2 this I think are important. 3 The Commissioner has engaged in a number of 4 public forums across the state. 5 I just wanted to point out that I'm 6 disappointed; in the first round, he has not chosen 7 to have a forum in New York City. 8 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: So let me -- 9 [Applause.] 10 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: I appreciate that. 11 Let me just say that the forums that have 12 been announced were really the forums that were 13 outside of New York City. And within the next week 14 or so we will be announcing three or four forums 15 that are going to take place in the city. 16 We're hoping at least to do one in every 17 borough so that there will probably be five, but 18 there could be more. 19 But, it was never our intent not to do them 20 in New York City, but as you know, New York City did 21 not have an evaluation system in place. 22 It was -- I hate to say it -- the only 23 district in the state that did not have an 24 evaluation system in place last year; and, 25 therefore, the upstate forums, where they were 1 really unrolling the marriage of evaluation with the 2 rollout of Common Core, were the forums that had 3 been put on the calendar. 4 And now we are, obviously, going to put them 5 in place in New York City as well. 6 SENATOR HOYLMAN: If I could ask one more 7 question, which is about data and privacy, which 8 I know you hear a lot of. 9 Can you give us any update on your efforts to 10 make certain that student identifiers are not linked 11 to tests and test results? 12 As you probably can expect, I have many 13 parents who are concerned that their student/their 14 children's data will be sold to third-party private 15 test companies. 16 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: You know, I would 17 like Ira Schwartz from the department to answer 18 that. 19 These are really technical questions that 20 I think really deserve very thoughtful responses. 21 Don't screw up. 22 [Laughter.] 23 IRA SCHWARTZ: Good morning. 24 As we have indicated, New York has had, and 25 has been rolling out, a system for a number of 1 years, where we -- students have unique student 2 IDs that are used for us to gather information 3 about assessment results and other critical 4 information. 5 It is not based on social security numbers or 6 anything of that nature. 7 Every school district currently has many, 8 many contracts with third-party vendors to collect 9 information for a variety of purposes. 10 They collect information because of bus 11 routes or school lunch, for assessments, for 12 scheduling; for many, many purposes. 13 The system that we are putting in place is 14 simply designed to make it easier for all of that 15 information to be collected together and used, and 16 it is -- it does not in any way change the ability 17 of that information to be used outside of the 18 agreements that are already in place between a 19 school district and that vendor, and confidentiality 20 of all of that information must be maintained. 21 So this is -- what we have been talking about 22 is simply a better way to be able to take 23 information that is already collected, to work with 24 vendors who are already under contract by school 25 districts, so that, for example, if you are an 1 administrator in a school district, you don't have 2 to deal with having 17 different passwords and 3 17 different systems that you have to go through. 4 It is simply a way of collecting this 5 information and using it with more efficiency; not 6 in any way to make it available to others that are 7 not able to access it now. 8 SENATOR HOYLMAN: So private student data 9 will not be sold to third parties-- 10 IRA SCHWARTZ: No, it will not. 11 SENATOR HOYLMAN: -- or provided to 12 third-party vendors? 13 IRA SCHWARTZ: It will be provided only under 14 the contracts that already exist. It is not going 15 to be then given out to another person. 16 I think there may be a little bit of a sense 17 that this is like, you know, you go onto a website, 18 and because you've gone onto that website, all of a 19 sudden, you're going to start getting e-mails from 20 somebody who you have never had a relationship with. 21 The security, the privacy, of all of this 22 information remains under the same constraints that 23 districts are currently working with their providers 24 of various services for. 25 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Tkaczyk, and then 1 Senator Stavisky. 2 SENATOR TKACZYK: Just to follow up on that, 3 what specific information is provided to outside 4 vendors? 5 IRA SCHWARTZ: It would depend upon what the 6 relationship is with the vendor and what the purpose 7 of that is. 8 For example, if you are working with a vendor 9 who is transporting children to and from school, 10 obviously, the vendor needs to know the location of 11 that child's residence. 12 If it is a school-lunch provider, they may 13 need to know information -- 14 SENATOR TKACZYK: So if I'm a special-needs 15 parent -- parent of a special-needs child and I'm 16 concerned about my child's condition being shared 17 with outside vendors, is that a cause for concern? 18 IRA SCHWARTZ: I do not believe it is a cause 19 for concern. 20 SENATOR TKACZYK: I just wanted to, first of 21 all, thank you for holding this hearing and for 22 being here today in New York City. 23 One of the concerns we've been hearing around 24 the state is that the testing started before we had 25 a chance to implement the Common Core curriculum, 1 and that the teachers and parents have not had a 2 chance to understand where we're going, and teachers 3 have not been able to teach children to this new 4 standard before testing began. 5 Is that a fair statement? 6 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: I think it's a very 7 fair statement to say that the rollout of the 8 curriculum has been uneven throughout the state. 9 I would also say, if I might, that, you know, 10 I travel the state, and I go to a lot of school 11 districts and I go to a lot of schools, and in some 12 schools and school districts, they've been preparing 13 for this for three and a half years. 14 In other schools, very little. 15 And as you can well imagine, the districts 16 that have been least prepared are the ones that 17 probably deal with our most vulnerable children and 18 our most vulnerable families. 19 And I wanted -- so if I might, I'd like to 20 take, also, the opportunity to correct a 21 misconception. 22 New York State did something really unique. 23 We took some of our federal dollars -- 24 And, for years, we had been hearing from 25 teachers, that one of the things that was really 1 putting them at a disadvantage, in terms of their 2 practice, was their inability to access curriculum. 3 We knew that the Common Core rollout and the 4 access to curriculum was going to be very 5 significant. 6 -- so New York State was the only state that 7 actually took some of its federal dollars to prepare 8 curriculum. 9 I'd like to remind everyone that that 10 curriculum is not a mandated curriculum. 11 If you go across the state, there are 12 700 school districts, for better or worse -- 13 I'm not sure we would design the system that 14 way today. 15 -- but -- and each of these districts adopt 16 their own curriculum. 17 Common Core is not a curriculum. It is a set 18 of standards; and, yes, the standards are part of 19 what is mandated. 20 But how districts get to the curriculum for 21 that is clearly not mandated. 22 The modules that we have provided are purely 23 there to help as an instructional tool. 24 I will tell you that I speak to many teachers 25 across this state, and many teachers from other 1 states who write in to tell us, that the Common Core 2 modules that we have posted are actually very 3 important tools in their practice. 4 But, that does not, for any instant, negate 5 the fact that the rollout has been uneven in 6 districts. 7 I would also say that that is why we went to 8 the federal government to ask for a waiver, so as 9 not to identify any school or school district based 10 on the rollout of the new testing. 11 SENATOR TKACZYK: To follow up on that, 12 I think one of the concerns is that teachers have 13 not had the time to develop local curriculum that 14 goes to meet the Common Core's new standards. 15 And given that it's been uneven, what 16 resources or what support will the State be able to 17 provide those schools to help them implement these 18 new standards? 19 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: New York State has 20 a very robust system of professional development. 21 We spend hundreds of millions of dollars on 22 professional development through a variety of 23 different resources -- teacher centers, et cetera, 24 et cetera -- hundreds of millions of dollars on 25 professional development. 1 I would say that what we need to do is align 2 the dollars that we're spending on professional 3 development with the new standards. 4 It is -- really, you can go to districts 5 where you say to teachers, Well, what are you doing 6 for professional development? 7 And much of what they're doing is very 8 interesting; I mean, they're doing interesting 9 things, but, unfortunately, much of it is not tied 10 to the preparation of the delivery of the higher 11 standard. 12 I think it would really be significant for us 13 to marry those two. 14 SENATOR TKACZYK: And in areas where we 15 recognize that there is high poverty levels, how do 16 we make sure those schools get the help they need? 17 I think it's more than just teacher 18 development, because they're dealing with very 19 specific problems in their communities that I don't 20 think are addressed by just raising the standard. 21 How do we make sure everyone is able to get 22 to that level of being college and career? 23 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: So we have engaged 24 in a number of things. 25 You know, we have advocated very, very 1 strongly for early childhood; universal early 2 childhood. 3 We believe that there are kids who come to 4 school with a 30-million-word deficit. 5 They've heard 30 million fewer words by the 6 age of 5 than some of their counterparts. 7 There was -- I'm a first-grade teacher by 8 training. 9 Those are deficits that kids arrive with 10 every day, and they are very, very significant. 11 We believe that a real investment on behalf 12 of this state into early childhood, that is proven 13 with great practice, would really go a very long 14 way. 15 I also happen to believe, and fund 16 personally, community schools. 17 I think there has to be acknowledgment along 18 the way that poverty, and the indicators of poverty, 19 are very important factors in what happens in many 20 kids' day-to-day lives. 21 And so it is those types of indices which, if 22 put together in a thoughtful way, I think could 23 really help us, not only these kids, but it helps us 24 achieve the outcome that I think we all want, which 25 is to provide the opportunity and the pathway for 1 every child in every classroom in every city in this 2 state to have a pathway to a life of independence. 3 SENATOR TKACZYK: Well, I couldn't agree with 4 you more on helping to get those resources to very 5 early education. 6 And one of the things we've been working on 7 lately is funding to early-intervention providers, 8 and the State has been problematic because of 9 changes we made in the 2012 budget. 10 And we're actually seeing -- and this is 11 maybe more upstate of an issue than here in the 12 city -- we're seeing providers leaving the program 13 and we're seeing kids not get early-intervention 14 services; these are kids with special needs. 15 And that, to me, is definitely a concern that 16 I wanted to raise to your attention. 17 But as we come -- look forward, and this is 18 my final comment, to next year's budget, because 19 we're changing our system and we're changing a lot 20 in education, I would be very concerned about 21 resources being pushed towards testing and 22 assessment, at the same time, that we're losing our 23 ability to educate the very young, like losing 24 kindergarten, for example, because we have a lot of 25 school districts that are under financial stress and 1 they're going to have to make budget decisions. 2 And, we need to make sure that we're 3 providing all of the resources they need to get 4 those kids college- and career-ready. 5 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: I appreciate that. 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Stavisky. 7 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. 8 Thank you for coming. 9 Thank you, Mr. Co-Chairmen, for holding this 10 hearing. 11 Like Senator Little, I, too, am a former 12 teacher. I hold a license both from the State and 13 from the City, grades 7 through 12, in 14 social studies. And I'm a former New York City 15 schoolteacher. 16 I have raised the following issue at many, 17 many budget hearings. 18 As you know, I am the ranking member on the 19 Committee on Higher Education, and the question that 20 I asked Chancellor Zimpher and Chancellor Goldstein 21 over the years, "What has been the cost of the 22 remediation?" 23 Because remediation is a terrible cost to the 24 state, and I am convinced that it's not SUNY and 25 CUNY's mission to provide remediation. 1 It's really up to the New York City and 2 New York State schools. 3 How do you answer the point that, for 4 example, in the New York City -- at CUNY's community 5 colleges, 70 percent of the students need 6 remediation in one or more subjects? 7 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: I would say, 8 Senator, it's slightly a little bit worse. 9 After six years at a two-year college, can 10 any of you even take a guess at what the graduation 11 rate is at the community colleges? 12 After six years in the two-year colleges, 13 24 percent. 14 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yeah, I know that. 15 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: So, clearly, if you 16 come out of high school and you are in need of 17 remediation, your chances of graduating are very 18 slim, but I'll tell you what your chances are of 19 having: You will not graduate, but you will have 20 accumulated enormous amounts of debt along the way 21 to not graduating. 22 So, it was a very uncomfortable conversation. 23 Could we continue to allow these graduation 24 rates to be posted without questioning the fact that 25 they really should be challenged? 1 Or, could we, at the same time as challenging 2 them, allow a system to take hold which really 3 taught to a level that would produce lower 4 remediation rates and more of a chance for a future? 5 Sitting where I'm sitting, and believe me, 6 these last couple of months have not been the most 7 comfortable, but I would say they are significant, 8 and I would say they are important, and I would say 9 it is important to challenge ourselves to be 10 uncomfortable, and it is important to challenge 11 ourselves to allow the cognitive dissonance that is 12 taking place throughout this state to really take 13 hold. 14 At the same time, we have to understand that 15 we've got to listen carefully, adjust appropriately, 16 but move forward. 17 SENATOR STAVISKY: On a totally different 18 issue, I hope you will be holding hearings in 19 boroughs, in addition to Manhattan, and I say that 20 as -- 21 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: Of course. 22 SENATOR STAVISKY: -- I'm a product of PS 9 23 on the West Side, so I grew up on the West Side. 24 But I represent a very unusual district in 25 Queens County because it's 53 percent 1 Asian-American. 2 How are you addressing the problem of 3 English -- and it's going to increase, not just -- 4 we're -- 5 And we love the immigrants, I must tell you, 6 we're doing the best we can. 7 -- but how are you addressing the needs of 8 the English-language learners? 9 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: Senator, I think 10 one of the things that I -- thank you so much for 11 giving me the opportunity to clarify on that 12 subject; it's very important. 13 I would say one of the things that we're 14 doing, is we're engaging with the federal 15 government. 16 Right now, under No Child Left Behind, there 17 is a federal requirement to test students in English 18 after a year of being here. 19 To me, that's just inappropriate public 20 policy. 21 And I would like to use some of our good 22 chits with the federal government to allow us to get 23 a waiver for that requirement. 24 We know that once English-language learners 25 emerge from being an English-language learner, they 1 achieve high school graduation with a regular 2 diploma at a greater pace than our regular 3 general-ed students. 4 So, I come from a family of immigrants. 5 Language acquisition is a very big issue for 6 me, and I take it very seriously. 7 And I have been appalled, quite frankly, by 8 the federal requirements, and I think 9 New York State, given its leadership role in this 10 reform, should also be the leaders in having that 11 policy readjusted. 12 SENATOR STAVISKY: And the amount of money 13 that the federal government provides is minuscule -- 14 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: You're not kidding. 15 SENATOR STAVISKY: -- in terms of education. 16 One last clarification, regarding the 17 question of privacy: 18 I think I heard you say that, within the 19 contracts that exist with the vendors, is there 20 anything in those pre-existing contracts with the 21 vendors that would permit the release of 22 confidential data? 23 IRA SCHWARTZ: I am -- by definition, 24 confidential data is confidential, so, it cannot be 25 released. 1 SENATOR STAVISKY: So there's nothing that -- 2 IRA SCHWARTZ: Right. 3 SENATOR STAVISKY: All right. 4 Thank you. 5 And thank you for easing the question of 6 testing, because I think our children are learning 7 too much in terms of test preparation. 8 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you, 9 Senator Stavisky. 10 We've been joined by our colleague 11 Senator Jack Martins, who is a member of the 12 Education Committee. 13 And, Senator Golden. 14 SENATOR GOLDEN: Thank you, Chairman Felder, 15 Chairman Flanagan, for doing this hearing this 16 morning. 17 Thank you, Chancellor, for being here. 18 I have just two quick questions, and I want 19 to be city centrist at the moment. 20 On the rollout of the Core curriculum, the 21 standards that's being applied, where are we 22 standing, and in this going forward, how does the 23 city of New York, with this timeline of this 24 rollout, how do we stand, and where will we be, 25 June, September, and the following June? 1 And if you could just talk about the city, 2 and then, of course, the rest of the state you can 3 throw in after that. 4 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: Well, Senator, I'm 5 happy to be joined by my colleagues from the 6 New York City Department of Education. 7 So, Shael, would you like to answer that 8 question, or would you like to wait for your 9 testimony? 10 I think they're going to address their 11 rollout, which we've been reading about. 12 SENATOR GOLDEN: Okay, so you want to do the 13 state then? 14 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: So the state, as 15 I said, it's been -- we are aware that the rollout 16 of the curriculum has been uneven, and what we tried 17 to do was produce a set of curricular modules that 18 would be available across the state, in every 19 school, in every school district. 20 And what we have found is, by no surprise, 21 that the lack of curriculum attainment has been most 22 felt in our hard-to-serve school districts that have 23 been underserved for a long time. 24 I would also like to say, Senator, that one 25 of the things that continues to frustrate us is this 1 notion that the statewide curriculum is mandated. 2 There is no mandate for statewide curriculum. 3 Districts are responsible for providing 4 curriculum in their schools. 5 So, we are really on it in a very big way, 6 and we are deeply concerned about the unevenness. 7 SENATOR GOLDEN: So where is the unevenness 8 in June this year, January -- September of this year 9 coming up, 2014, and where are we going to be in 10 June of 2015? 11 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: I think as -- like 12 with every reform, I think we have gone through 13 year one. 14 The good news is, we're done with year one. 15 And this now gives us a chance, as we travel 16 the state, to hear from every district, to listen to 17 them carefully about how it is we can help them, and 18 to hold them accountable for providing curriculum 19 materials to their schools and school districts. 20 I believe that with what we are seeing, we 21 have everyone's attention now, and people who were 22 thinking that this was not going to happen, now 23 understand that this is definitely going to happen, 24 and they are very eagerly looking for ways to get 25 online. 1 SENATOR GOLDEN: We asked many questions here 2 this morning, obviously. 3 One of the questions that hasn't been asked, 4 and maybe it has been and you've answered most of 5 it, but, challenges that you see going forward? 6 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: You know, the 7 challenges that I see go forward-- going forward 8 have to do with some of the technical aspects of the 9 rollout, which I think, as we've said, have been 10 uneven, but I think the challenge is also going to 11 be on the rhetoric. 12 If we continue to have very -- I'm searching 13 for a word on how to describe the rhetoric -- but 14 there's been a lot of inflammatory rhetoric around 15 what it is that we're all trying to accomplish, and 16 sometimes the rhetoric buries the lead. 17 And the lead is, that we have a lot of work 18 to do for a very specific reason; and the reason is, 19 that we would like to see New York State remain the 20 financial- and cultural- and civilization-centric 21 state that it is. 22 If we do not educate our students to 23 twenty-first-century competencies, employers will 24 not want to be stationed in New York. Families will 25 not find a future for their families to keep living 1 in New York. 2 They will go where the future is. 3 My belief, is that New York State is 4 well-poised to lead this reform and continue to be a 5 magnificent and significant state in this union. 6 SENATOR GOLDEN: Thank you. 7 Last question: 8 You talked about testing to competency level, 9 and something about a waiver, in your testimony. 10 Could you expand on that? 11 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: The competency 12 level of...? 13 SENATOR GOLDEN: You said we're going to 14 test, there's a competency level, and I guess an 15 educational level, and that we were looking at a 16 waiver to try to do something with the competency 17 level? 18 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: Oh, we were talking 19 about special-ed students. 20 Another federal requirement under No Child 21 Left Behind, is this notion that students with 22 differentiated learning styles -- is really what 23 I call, what mostly everyone else calls, 24 "special-needs students," but, you know, they just 25 learn differently -- should be tested at their age 1 level rather than at their academic-achievement 2 level. 3 To me, I find this cruel and unusual 4 behavior, and so I feel that, while leading the 5 conversation for a waiver on our English-language 6 learners, we should also be applying for a waiver 7 for testing adjustments around students with 8 differentiated learning styles. 9 SENATOR GOLDEN: Have you studied that? 10 Have you -- what is your belief that that can 11 become a reality? 12 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: Well, I read with 13 alarm last night that, New Mexico, because they're 14 having some pushback against teacher evaluation, the 15 federal government came out yesterday and said, if 16 they do not fulfill their obligations under the 17 requirements that they've agreed to, the federal 18 government will not consider any of their waiver 19 requirements. 20 So, we need to be acutely aware that whatever 21 action we take has a reaction at a district level, a 22 state level, and at a national level. 23 I believe, because we have been aligned in 24 everything we said we were going to do, and 25 delivered on most of that direction, the federal 1 government should look favorably upon us when we ask 2 for waiver. 3 But believe me, they are paying careful 4 attention to the rhetoric. 5 SENATOR GOLDEN: And timeline on the waivers? 6 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: I would expect to 7 see our waiver application in -- 8 Hey, here's the guy who's writing the waiver. 9 Go ahead. 10 IRA SCHWARTZ: The U.S. Department of 11 Education has asked states to submit their 12 waiver-renewal applications between middle of 13 January and middle of February. 14 And, currently, we are planning to submit, 15 with the Board of Regents' concurrence, at the end 16 of January. 17 SENATOR GOLDEN: And their response time 18 would be...? 19 IRA SCHWARTZ: They have not laid that out 20 yet, but we would expect that it would be, likely, a 21 matter of a couple of months before they respond to 22 us with their reaction to our request. 23 SENATOR GOLDEN: Thank you, Chancellor. 24 Thank you, Chairs. 25 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: We will be vocal on 1 the subject. 2 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Felder. 3 SENATOR FELDER: Good morning, and thank you, 4 Senator Flanagan, for being the hero for children 5 throughout the state. 6 I -- there are many questions that my 7 colleagues have raised that I have an interest in as 8 well, but I don't want to repeat those areas. 9 The area that has not been discussed at all, 10 and I find it quite disturbing and offensive, is 11 that the testing and the evaluations that we've 12 talked about, Common Core, and beyond, really have 13 not discussed at all children that never, ever will 14 be proficient in the tests that we're giving. 15 Now, that does not in any way for me to -- in 16 any way to diminish the significance of having tests 17 and trying to make sure that our kids do the best 18 they can, but in measuring the kids, measuring the 19 teachers, without a discussion about children that 20 will never be proficient; for example, I have my own 21 personal experience of -- I won't give you my whole 22 history in school, but I would say, without 23 question, I was not an excellent or a good student 24 at all. 25 I guess I'm not supposed to say that on 1 record. 2 But the fact is, that there are many children 3 that will excel in other vocations without being 4 super-duper in the English language or math or 5 anything like that. 6 And this, Chairman Flanagan, this, you know, 7 preparation, this beautiful PowerPoint preparation 8 that's been done by the Commissioner, and it is 9 beautiful, there's no discussion at all about those 10 kids. 11 So I don't understand, when we're talking 12 about preparing kids, the only conversation we've 13 had, and I know it evolves around Common Core, has 14 been about making sure that children improve, which 15 is great, and what the numbers are going to be. 16 Those numbers will always be distorted, 17 unless we spend more time on making sure, guidance 18 counselors, there are enough guidance counselors in 19 the schools we have. 20 There's no way that kids can do well when 21 they have one guidance counselor for 1,000 kids, or 22 two guidance counselors. 23 When music has been cut down, and a kid like 24 myself, who maybe did not do well in certain areas, 25 I would dare say I'm musically inclined, right, and 1 there are kids that will do well in music; give them 2 the self-esteem they need to do well in other 3 topics; the arts, and a lot of other programs. 4 So, the discussion about Common Core is an 5 important one, and the question of teacher training 6 which is a problem, and other things are always a 7 problem, but how in the world can we talk about 8 measuring proficiency in children if the only 9 discussion evolves around how they're gonna do in 10 college? 11 When we know that there's an entire 12 population of kids -- kids are not robots, and 13 neither are the teachers -- 14 [Applause.] 15 SENATOR FELDER: -- how are we going to 16 discuss how kids are going to do, when you take a 17 whole population, and you know that there's a 18 significant portion of that population that are not 19 gonna go to college, and may never be at the level 20 of proficiency they can be? 21 They will be artists, they will be musicians, 22 they will be plumbers, electricians, and everything 23 else that the state needs. 24 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: So, Senator, thank 25 you so much for bringing up that very important part 1 of the conversation. 2 I would like to say that, over the past 3 three years, we have started to engage in a very 4 robust dialogue around the state, where we've held 5 multiple hearings on the subject of multiple 6 pathways to graduation. 7 One of the things we'd like to see is an 8 expansion of career and technical opportunities in 9 our high schools. 10 One of the things we'd like to see is an arts 11 expansion. 12 We would like to get to graduation through a 13 variety of pathways. 14 Unfortunately for us, last year, when we 15 recommended the substitution of -- that we 16 recommended that students, federally mandated for 17 high school graduation, is an English test, a math 18 test, and a science test. 19 New York State adds on two other tests. 20 So we felt, to put our toe in the water on 21 multiple pathways, we would recommend substitution 22 for an approved program in career and technical 23 pathways, and we would allow students to get to 24 graduation by substituting two of those tests for 25 maybe two career and technical tests. 1 Well, we met with huge resistance; vocal 2 resistance. 3 But I would say, when I go to Rochester, when 4 I went to Buffalo, when I went to 5 Wadley High School -- 6 [Technical difficulties.] 7 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: I'm telling the 8 truth. 9 [Laughter.] 10 CHANCELLOR MERRYL TISCH: -- when I went to 11 Wadley High School last week, right here in 12 New York City, a robust arts program, there is no 13 question to us that children can get to graduation 14 in a variety of ways. 15 Working out the adult politics of how to get 16 there is proving to be very complicated, but in 17 January, we will once again be engaging across this 18 state in that conversation, because, I, like you, 19 truly understand that youngsters develop differently 20 with different skills. 21 Some are great in the stem areas; some are 22 great in the art areas. 23 They should be given the chance to use their 24 skill set to move forward. 25 SENATOR FELDER: I know that we're under 1 very, very strong time constraints, so this is not a 2 question, please don't answer me, this is just a 3 statement. 4 And the statement is, that all of that, 5 whatever you said is true, and I think that a lot is 6 being done, but at the end of the day, the numbers 7 will remain distorted no matter what you do, unless 8 there is something taken into consideration for the 9 population that I mentioned, because they'll never, 10 ever be accurate, given that. 11 Thank you very much. 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Chancellor, before you 13 step away, I just want to make some general 14 comments, and, now having been to a ton of meetings, 15 both public and private, and this now being our 16 fourth hearing, I would offer just a couple of 17 comments, generally. 18 It seems to me that there continues to be a 19 disconnect, and I mentioned this at some of the 20 other hearings, that there's more effort being made, 21 there's more travel being done, there are more 22 forums that are taking place, but I think there is 23 this sort of feeling in a lot of people's, the pit 24 of their stomach, that we're not turning the corner 25 in the way we need to. 1 One of the groups that has banded together 2 is, as you know, referred to as the 3 "Educational Conference Board," and that's a good 4 cross-section of groups, and there's certainly going 5 to be people who will be anti-Common Core no matter 6 what. 7 This group I think has taken a measured 8 approach in saying, Common Core is largely a good 9 thing, but the implementation is not working nearly 10 as well as it should. 11 And, I feel like one of the real challenges 12 that we're all confronting is the curriculum, and 13 the close association and tie to APPR. 14 Even if a message goes out and says, 15 "Don't worry. Even if you are a kid, you didn't do 16 well, it's not a problem," equally, if not worse is, 17 if you're a teacher and you're getting a score that 18 doesn't look so good, that's what makes people all 19 nervous. 20 And I think that's where there's got to be 21 better work done. 22 It seems to me that -- and teachers that I've 23 spoken with, many of them support the Common Core 24 Standards. 25 They are frustrated beyond belief by the 1 curriculum and the whole thing with the modules, but 2 we -- I am desperately hopeful that some of the 3 byproduct of our work here, in conjunction with the 4 department and with the Regents, will be some 5 positive, and they may be modest, but positive and 6 modest steps that people can say, "Okay, they get 7 it; and more importantly than getting it, they're 8 acting." 9 So, respectfully, I'm not going to ask any 10 questions. 11 I just want to make that as sort of a general 12 approach. 13 And we have a lot of people to hear from 14 today, and we certainly have another hearing, and 15 they're not going to be the only ones that take 16 place. 17 I very much appreciate your attendance, and 18 Mr. Schwartz as well. 19 So, thank you very much. 20 Next we have -- well, he's here somewhere, 21 but, Mr. Mulgrew. 22 Good morning, Michael. 23 Michael is joined by Carol Gerstl, also from 24 UFT. 25 We appreciate you being here. 1 MICHAEL MULGREW: Good morning, 2 Senator Flanagan and Senator Felder, and all the 3 Senators who are here. 4 Thank you very much for convening these 5 hearings. 6 I think this is a very important issue, and 7 I feel that we, as a state, are in danger of losing 8 something that was probably -- it's probably very, 9 very important to the future of the children of this 10 state. 11 When I was asked to testify here about the 12 Common Core rollout in New York State, I said, well, 13 the first thing I would like to talk about is why we 14 even have the Common Core. 15 What was the purpose of it? 16 And it was because us -- we as a country were 17 falling behind, and we were falling behind because 18 of what we were teaching. 19 We -- you know, a group of people -- 20 educators, governors, people from higher ed -- all 21 got together and went and studied the very countries 22 that we're constantly being compared to. 23 And what we found out, quite -- what we found 24 out quite quickly, was that we as a country were 25 teaching too much and not going in depth on -- and 1 we were not teaching the skill sets that were 2 necessary for the new-world order which we live in 3 and what children need to do in order to be 4 successful, and that is why the Common Core 5 Standards were developed. 6 It was not developed by any one person. 7 It was developed by groups of people working 8 together. 9 Both national teacher unions, many institutes 10 of higher ed, the Governors Association, all came 11 together to design what we now know are the 12 Common Core Standards, which was a good idea, but 13 the rollout has been horrible. 14 It has been horrible. 15 Normally, as an educator, if you have a set 16 of standards you need to teach to, you would first 17 get a curriculum. 18 And then, once the curriculum is designed and 19 all the materials are aligned to it, you would then 20 design the test or the assessment to match it. 21 My concern three years ago, when -- because 22 I did support, and I still support, New York State 23 adopting the Common Core Standards. 24 My concern three years ago was that we would 25 not be ready for the rollout, and my concerns at 1 that time have now become true. 2 We have not handled this rollout correctly: 3 we do not have the curriculum, and the tests were 4 designed and implemented. 5 I was speaking about the problem of not 6 having curriculum for over a year before anyone ever 7 noticed, and the first time it was noticed was 8 absolutely one year ago to this month, and 9 I testified in front of the Governors Education 10 Commission, where Senator Flanagan was, and I said 11 my usual statement, that, "The tests are going to be 12 given this school year and the test scores are going 13 to plummet." 14 I didn't think much of it because I had been 15 saying this for a year, trying to get curriculum put 16 in place. 17 And somebody on the committee said, "Did you 18 just say the test scores are gonna plummet?" 19 I said, "Yeah." 20 And they said, "Well, how do you know that?" 21 I said, "It's pretty simple. We have a whole 22 new test based on some very rigorous standards which 23 is difficult to roll out to begin with, but, at the 24 very least, teachers needed a curriculum, or some 25 sort of material, that matched what that was, and 1 since I know that there is none of this, the test 2 scores are going to plummet." 3 Soon after that, you heard more and more 4 public officials start talking about the test scores 5 were going to plummet, because I'm sure when they 6 looked into it, politically, they all knew it was 7 going to happen, and there was nothing they could do 8 to stop it because we were way too far down the 9 road. 10 So the rollout has not been good. 11 And my fear now, is that the political 12 accusations, the anger you are hearing from so many 13 communities, are going to push the State to possibly 14 remove itself from supporting the Common Core, and 15 that would be a real disservice to our children. 16 Teachers need a curriculum; they need the 17 materials aligned to it. 18 Teachers need to be able to study that 19 curriculum, prepare for it, way before they go into 20 a school year. 21 That has never happened in New York City. 22 From what I understand, that has not happened 23 in almost all of the districts in New York State. 24 I understand that it is not the 25 State Education Department's responsibility to 1 supply districts with the curriculum. 2 That is what our laws say. 3 I also understand that the districts are 4 telling me that the State should have done more to 5 help. 6 Well, as all the adults are saying it's not 7 their responsibility, the only people bearing the 8 ramifications of not having this are the children 9 and the teachers of New York State. 10 The State put up on its website, we tried to 11 work with them, they put up units, not a complete 12 curriculum, no materials aligned with it, but at 13 least they were moving to do that. 14 Up until March of last year, New York City 15 didn't even try to engage in a curriculum. 16 They had teachers writing units, but here is 17 the issue: A teacher is not a curriculum designer. 18 We are not trained to be curriculum designers. 19 That is a whole different skill set. 20 Yes, there are teachers who write curriculum, 21 but they have learned or been taught that skill set. 22 So we had teachers all over New York City 23 writing units and putting them into a website, and 24 they were not aligned to the Common Core. 25 And now, this year, we have -- and I'm sure 1 the Department of Education will come up here today 2 and talk about how they did all this training and 3 all the teachers have the curriculum. 4 And I ask you, if they do say that, I will be 5 more than happy to arrange for you to walk into any 6 school you want in New York City and they will tell 7 you they do not have it. 8 And worse than that, they engaged in a 9 company, who's -- the most -- the majority of the 10 schools in New York City are supposed to be getting 11 a curriculum designed by the Pearson, and, once 12 again, it is not aligned to the Common Core. 13 And it's a very -- as we shift to 14 Common Core, you have to remember, children starting 15 now, if the curriculum were in place, if they were 16 just starting in education now, they would be okay, 17 because they would automatically get the base skills 18 they need from the very beginning. 19 As you implement a whole new set of learning 20 standards, you have children at different -- at 21 different points of their education. 22 So, it's not just about, Oh, here's the 23 standard you need to meet. 24 What are the academic interventions that you 25 need to do for sixth-graders? for ninth-graders? 1 That has to be part of this plan, also. 2 And the Common Core is a set of concepts and 3 skill sets. 4 And when you ask -- and I hate to be too much 5 of a teacher at times -- in order for a child to 6 perform a standard on the Common Core, you can't 7 just ask them to demonstrate that standard. 8 You need to build different pieces of 9 learning inside of them. 10 We call it "scaffolding." 11 I hate to do that, but that's what we call 12 it, "scaffolding." 13 You have to scaffold that knowledge so they 14 can then demonstrate a competency in the standard. 15 The pieces of curriculum, where I have seen 16 at this point in -- for New York City, is just 17 asking the child, on day one, to demonstrate the 18 standard. There is no scaffolding in it whatsoever. 19 So now we have even more of a mess in the 20 city, because the teachers are trying to rewrite 21 what they've been given, and a large portion of them 22 are saying, We'd rather just not have this because 23 we basically have to start from scratch. 24 And the obsession in New York State, the 25 timing of doing teacher evaluation with the same 1 time as a rollout of Common Core, it's like the 2 perfect storm, because, now, teachers and parents 3 think the Common Core is the culprit. 4 They're all angry about the Common Core. 5 The Common Core should have been separate 6 from teacher evaluation. 7 Parents are hearing, and they've been told, 8 and it is correct, but they're hearing that 9 "Don't worry if your child is considered not 10 proficient at this point. It's just a new 11 baseline." 12 Well, no parent wants to hear "My child's not 13 proficient, but don't worry, it's a new baseline." 14 That is not what you want to hear. 15 "My child has been proficient for years, has 16 done well in school. You just sent me something 17 that says they're not proficient, but don't worry 18 about it." 19 And you wonder why they're angry. 20 And at the same time teachers are saying, 21 Well, now this is part of my evaluation system, and 22 it might be based on growth. 23 What we're hearing already: Well, what 24 happens if a teacher in School A actually has the 25 right curriculum and training? Then they're clearly 1 at a bigger advantage than I am, because the school 2 system has not been responsible for what it needs to 3 do, which is to supply me with the proper materials 4 and the proper curriculum from which to teach. 5 So you put all of these things together at 6 the same time and we now have, as I'm sure you have 7 heard in some of your testimonies, the perfect 8 storm, but the wrong thing is being blamed. 9 The Common Core was a good idea. 10 It is a good idea. 11 We need to engage in much higher standards. 12 The Common Core does not say test children 13 all the time. 14 It says, these are the standards which 15 children need to learn at this point in time in 16 their education. 17 It does not say that I have to give 18 kindergarten children bubble tests to baseline them, 19 which is happening in New York City right now. 20 For school districts to use the Common Core 21 as a rationale to do things that they want, which is 22 not required by the Common Core, is disgusting. 23 I think New York State should ban all 24 standardized tests for pre-K through second grade. 25 It has to be banned. It is crazy what is 1 going on. 2 [Applause.] 3 MICHAEL MULGREW: And when they call them 4 "assessments," okay, there is things called 5 "assessments" which are truly assessments. 6 There's project-based assessments, where you 7 look at a child's project. 8 But when the assessment comes with a No. 2 9 pencil and bubbles, it is "a test"; that's what it 10 is. 11 Yesterday I was on the phone with teachers 12 from a school. 13 They said, they were being told they had to 14 baseline the kindergarten children with a 15 bubble test because of Common Core and teacher 16 evaluation. 17 That is absurd. 18 So we face this very difficult point right 19 now. 20 We have a lot of people who are very angry 21 about what is going on in our state because of the 22 new tests and Common Core. 23 Teacher evaluation is put right in the middle 24 of it because now tests are even more important. 25 So how are we as a state gonna move forward? 1 We've asked for more -- we said keep 2 teacher eval in place, we said keep giving the 3 tests, but as a state, we should first ensure that 4 every single district has the proper curriculum with 5 the materials aligned and the training has happened. 6 Because, here we're going into our second 7 year. 8 We had three years to prepare. 9 Test scores plummeted this year. 10 We're going into our second year, and I ask 11 you: How many districts have curriculum that has 12 been completely aligned and all the teachers have 13 been trained and given the right material in the 14 state of New York? 15 How many districts? 16 At the same time we're saying to the schools, 17 to the children, and the teachers: You need to do 18 better, but everybody from above is not doing what 19 they need to do. 20 I think we need to step back, continue the 21 tests, tell the parents what the tests really are. 22 "They're just us moving education to a 23 different place, which we need to do," but, until we 24 get everything in place -- 25 I don't know if people want to go out and 1 admit that we've had three years to do it and no 2 one's done it. 3 -- then we should say, until all of that is 4 in place, we will continue to move forward with the 5 Common Core assessments, but until it's all in 6 place, we want to move back the high-stakes 7 consequences off of them. 8 And I think that would be the right thing to 9 do. 10 As you know, I submitted my testimony, and 11 I never read it, so, you're used to that. 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Michael, we appreciate 13 that. 14 MICHAEL MULGREW: Thank you very much. 15 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Golden. 16 SENATOR GOLDEN: Thank you for being here, 17 Michael, and testifying. 18 Run by where you believe that timeline, how 19 would that timeline come together for, say, the 20 city, and then the state as a whole? 21 How could that timeline come together, and 22 how long would it take that timeline to come 23 together? 24 MICHAEL MULGREW: What I would like to see, 25 is that we take this school year and move very 1 quickly. 2 I think we should do a statewide curriculum 3 project and leave it up to the districts if they 4 choose to opt in. 5 There are many different units around there, 6 units that max somewhat of the Common Core, but 7 here's the other part: Could you imagine 700 school 8 districts all doing their own thing? 9 Where's the quality around it? 10 I mean, we went to Pearson in New York City. 11 Pearson was engaged in March. 12 They're pushing this stuff out so fast, they 13 know it's not quality. 14 So I would say you should bring together all 15 of the groups that have been doing some of this work 16 and saying, What do we have? Let's put this 17 together as quickly as possible. 18 I would hope you should take the rest of this 19 school year to put it together, because it's not 20 just the curriculum. You have to align the proper 21 materials, and then you have to set up the academic 22 intervention, as I said, to the kids at different 23 stages of education. 24 It would be tough, but I would like to take 25 the rest of this year, or up till January 1st 1 of '15, to put it all together, but it's the -- to 2 train the teachers, and to make sure that every 3 district -- look, New York City is a large district. 4 We have a lot of resources, and that's our 5 own issues internally. 6 I'm sure you're aware we fight a lot. 7 SENATOR GOLDEN: It's conversation. 8 MICHAEL MULGREW: Yeah, it's conversation. 9 [Laughter.] 10 MICHAEL MULGREW: But as a state, we should 11 have -- now that I look back on it, we should have 12 done a statewide curriculum project and just left it 13 up to the districts, if you don't -- if you want to 14 opt in, opt in. 15 The idea that we want 700 school districts to 16 pay for curriculum, individually, that's a waste of 17 education funding. 18 And just think of all the time and energy we 19 have spent on teacher eval and standardized tests, 20 and all the time the schools are now dealing with 21 all of this, rather than focusing on instruction 22 inside of the classroom. 23 So would I say at least a year, at least the 24 rest of this school year, and probably up to 25 January 1st of '15. 1 SENATOR GOLDEN: Do we need new requests for 2 proposals on this? 3 Will we have to do a standard form changing 4 some of this? 5 MICHAEL MULGREW: I think you have enough -- 6 well, you would have to change -- at this point, the 7 laws would have to be -- the law would have to be 8 waived for at least one school year. 9 Do not stop the new teacher eval. 10 Actually, this would be a great way that -- 11 because, remember, only 20 percent of teacher evals 12 should be growth on the standardized test score. 13 This would actually be able to allow school 14 districts to develop the other parts of student 15 achievement, which we feel is more important than 16 the standardized test score, because what happened 17 is, because districts were not able to develop them, 18 they're using averages, school-wide averages, of 19 standardized test scores, a different way of using 20 the test score, instead of using real, what I call, 21 "authentic student achievement." 22 A child goes to a school this year, they'll 23 go to a school 182 days that aren't standardized 24 testing days. 25 If you have a school district that's using 1 standardized test scores for the first 20 percent, 2 and a different version of it for the second 3 20 percent, you're basically telling the children, 4 What you did for the other 182 days doesn't count. 5 If you come to school every day, if you 6 attended school, if you did all your homework, all 7 your projects, those things should count more than a 8 standardized test score. 9 SENATOR GOLDEN: You don't think that the 10 Core could continue even while we brought the groups 11 together to reevaluate? 12 MICHAEL MULGREW: Continue the core. 13 It's out there, but we have to be honest, and 14 we have to get right -- the correct information out 15 there. 16 The Common Core is a good idea. It is the 17 right thing to do. 18 It's the only way we can -- you cannot set 19 national education policy unless there is some sort 20 of standardized criteria. 21 And, you know, what happened with "No Child 22 Left Behind" was that, we're going to hold every 23 state responsible for their graduation rates and 24 test scores. 25 There was no -- they could not, because the 1 federal government has no legal authority to tell a 2 state what its criteria should be. 3 So all of a sudden, states, unlike 4 New York State, who put very little of their state 5 funding into schools, all of a sudden, they were 6 considered some of the best states in the United -- 7 in education in the entire country, but I don't 8 think a fourth-grade reading level is appropriate 9 for a high school diploma. 10 SENATOR GOLDEN: Analytically, how do we do 11 these 700 school districts? 12 How do we, analytically, set a standard -- 13 or, not a standard -- but assess? 14 MICHAEL MULGREW: It's two things: 15 One, you can use the state assessment, which 16 would [unintelligible] Common Core assessment. 17 But in order to use that assessment, you have 18 to make sure that each school district has the 19 proper material; because, if not, what you're saying 20 is, the school or the child -- the teacher or the 21 child bears the brunt of the school system not doing 22 what it was supposed to do. 23 So State Education Departments should play a 24 much stronger role in making sure that each district 25 has a curriculum. 1 State Education in New York State, as you 2 know, cannot dictate what the curriculum is to a 3 district, but it should be saying that they have a 4 valid curriculum aligned to the Common Core, and 5 then use that as your standard assessment, and also 6 use -- you know, it's very -- to go a school. 7 I know there's 700 school districts. 8 Each school district should have some 9 criteria of what their schools are performing. 10 If you just want to do the test scores, 11 sooner or later, you're going to see more and more 12 testing scandals as we have seen throughout the 13 country. 14 SENATOR GOLDEN: You all know why testing 15 became where it is today; right? 16 We were testing to nothing years ago; right? 17 MICHAEL MULGREW: Correct. 18 SENATOR GOLDEN: So, testing, at least the 19 child was learning something if the child was being 20 tested; correct? 21 That was the thought process that went into 22 this some years ago; correct? 23 MICHAEL MULGREW: I am a teacher, and as I've 24 said to many of the teachers who I have the pleasure 25 of serving for, I said: We've been doing tests as a 1 profession for thousands of years. Don't let 2 somebody else tell us that testing is bad. 3 When it's misused, it's bad. 4 And, we, that is our tool; it is an 5 assessment tool that we use. 6 And we support testing, but we don't support 7 testing as it has become in this -- well, in my 8 city, it has become obsessive. 9 SENATOR GOLDEN: And last question: 10 The first and second grade, no bubble tests; 11 but definitely assessments, definitely tests, but no 12 bubble tests? 13 MICHAEL MULGREW: You should have, the 14 teachers should be doing developmental diagnosis of 15 the child. 16 You know, the idea that in kindergarten 17 you're given a bubble test, there's one problem with 18 that; first, there's a very simplistic problem: 19 A lot of children in kindergarten can't hold 20 a No. 2 pencil, so I don't know how they're gonna do 21 on that test. 22 That's why we have those big fat crayons? 23 So, you'd have to do the developmental 24 assessments, but, you know, as -- you know, I'm 25 afraid that what has happened in New York City, in 1 New York City, the child's promotional criteria is 2 based solely on their test score, and that is not 3 something I would like to see in any other district. 4 It's a great disservice, because what you're 5 telling the children, once again, is that nothing 6 else counts. 7 It should be partly a test score. 8 It should be partly whether -- what their 9 grade is for the year in a subject area. 10 It should be a teacher recommendation. 11 Oh, the child showed up for one week, passed 12 the test, and the one week he was here, all he did 13 was disrupt the classroom, but we're going to move 14 him on because he showed proficiency in his test. 15 There's a lot more to learning than academic 16 proficiency. There's also social and emotional 17 learning. 18 I don't want to get touchy-feely, but it's a 19 part of what we do: getting children to learn is at 20 least half of the job that we do. 21 SENATOR GOLDEN: Thank you, Michael. 22 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Martins. 23 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you. 24 Good morning. 25 MICHAEL MULGREW: Good morning. 1 SENATOR MARTINS: I appreciate the analogy 2 you used, "scaffolding." 3 You know, I get a sense that, for many of our 4 kids right now, they're -- they've got scaffolding 5 up to the first floor, and they're being asked to do 6 work on the fifth floor, because they haven't been 7 given the tools necessary to be able to complete the 8 questions they're being asked on these exams. 9 MICHAEL MULGREW: That's an excellent 10 analogy. 11 You should be a teacher. 12 SENATOR MARTINS: I like to think I am. 13 MICHAEL MULGREW: Yes, you are. 14 SENATOR MARTINS: But when we go through 15 this, you know, one of the concerns I have is, with 16 the rollout of Common Core, how do we get it right? 17 You know, obviously, we got it wrong. 18 MICHAEL MULGREW: Yes. 19 SENATOR MARTINS: Obviously, the 20 State Education Department, I think the general 21 consensus is that it wasn't done appropriately. 22 But I'm concerned about the kids who are in 23 school right now; those who are in that continuum 24 who don't have the scaffolding necessary to fill out 25 and to properly be evaluated based on the exams 1 they're given. 2 And isn't there a way of developing exams 3 that roll out Common Core annually, consistent with 4 the education that the child has gotten? 5 Is that a possibility? 6 Because the answer I got from State Ed was, 7 Well, we have to start that exam at some point. 8 Which essentially means, we're going to take 9 all of these kids who are in school right now and do 10 them an incredible disservice. 11 So, how do we do that? 12 Is there a way -- in your opinion, is there 13 way of rolling out Common Core that takes into 14 consideration that that child who may be in 15 sixth grade hasn't had five years of Common Core 16 learning necessary to fill out or to actually be 17 competitive on that exam? 18 MICHAEL MULGREW: What could be done is that 19 you phase in, first, the lowest standards of 20 Common Core into the testing regimen, so that as 21 you're phasing them in for the students in -- who 22 are in the more advanced -- sixth grade, sorry, 23 you're phasing that in, you're not giving them the 24 whole thing at one time. 25 Because you are correct, they're at the first 1 level, and all of a sudden, they're being asked to 2 do the fifth level, so those children are at an 3 immense disservice. 4 So, you could phase in the Common Core 5 questions. 6 Just saying that we're going to start it 7 here, it's a new baseline, I get that from a -- from 8 an operations point of view, it's nice, it's easier, 9 but you're still -- you know, there's the human cost 10 to the student, and, as you can see, there's a human 11 cost to the parents, which is why we have so many 12 angry parents at this point, because: 13 My child always did well in school. 14 They went to school, they did what they were 15 supposed to do. You told me my child was in great 16 shape. 17 Now, all of a sudden, you're saying they're 18 not. 19 I don't want to hear that this is a new 20 baseline. 21 What you basically are telling me is, you 22 were teaching my child the wrong thing. 23 That's what the parents are hearing. 24 They don't have -- it's not their 25 responsibility to understand the history of the 1 Common Core and No Child Left Behind. 2 I send my child to school, he gets a grade on 3 his report card, he's promoted every year. 4 She's promoted every year; she's a great 5 student. 6 All of a sudden, she's not proficient. 7 I don't want to hear about all this 8 mumbo-jumbo from you folks. 9 "What are you doing to my child?" 10 Phase it in. 11 We should have started a phase-in years ago. 12 But, you know, you'll hear that tests cost a 13 lot of money. 14 We already had an RFP out for that point for 15 a company doing this; so, therefore, the company 16 said it would cost us this much more if we try to 17 phase it in now; so, therefore, we couldn't do it. 18 I hear all of this. 19 It still comes down to the student and the 20 parent. 21 SENATOR MARTINS: You know, I -- when we deal 22 with education issues, the first question I ask, and 23 we've been through this before, is, How does it 24 improve a child's learning experience? 25 And, although I agree with you on 1 Common Core, and the principles of Common Core are 2 good, I don't know how the rollout of exams, as they 3 were rolled out for Common Core, improved the 4 educational experience of a child. 5 How does it help the child? 6 And if we go to -- and I want to ask you a 7 question specifically on the scores themselves. 8 Now, I'm concerned about, who set the cut 9 scores? 10 I'm concerned about cut scores that were set 11 at a level that assured that there would be that 12 level of failure. 13 And I'm concerned about whether or not 14 there's -- those cut scores were credible -- 15 [Applause.] 16 SENATOR MARTINS: -- given the fact that -- 17 you know, given the fact that immediately after the 18 scores came home, everyone got notices, that, "Don't 19 worry about it, your child's okay." 20 Well, if that, 2 was really a 3, then why 21 didn't the child get a 3? 22 And that really was a concern for me. 23 I was hoping you can comment on that. 24 MICHAEL MULGREW: When I was going around, 25 saying, "We have a problem coming at us," I said one 1 of two things is going to happen: 2 You're gonna see this huge drop in test 3 scores, and, you know, hundreds of thousands of 4 children who were said they were doing well in 5 school, we're gonna find out they were no longer 6 proficient; 7 Or, they would move the cut score to the 8 place that it would be absurd, because I got 2 right 9 out of 50, and I'm now proficient. 10 So, how the cut score is set, you would have 11 to talk to the psychometricians who design all of 12 this. 13 I would hope it's not political at times, or 14 agenda-driven, because that would be a huge 15 disservice. 16 But, as a state, they moved forward; they 17 knew it was going to be a problem. 18 And where they set the cut scores, I'm sure 19 you've asked Commissioner King, and I hope he gave 20 you the appropriate answer. 21 SENATOR MARTINS: Well, let me ask you this: 22 Given how well you were able to predict the 23 concerns that we're dealing with today, a year from 24 now, if nothing else changes, and our children next 25 year are asked to take those very same exams based 1 on those very same criteria, do you want to give us 2 a prediction of where you think those cut scores are 3 gonna be, and how well our kids are going to do? 4 MICHAEL MULGREW: Well, they're gonna go up, 5 because we do have more Common Core material in our 6 schools. 7 And now that teachers have seen the tests, 8 even though I think it's absurd that we can't have 9 the tests, because, really, it's important for us to 10 look at the types of questions they're asking, but, 11 we heard that the contract the state signed doesn't 12 allow us to see the tests, which I don't get at all, 13 the scores will go up. 14 Now, they should go up automatically because 15 teachers now have more access to the material. 16 They don't have everything by any means, but 17 they have more access to the material, so the scores 18 should go up. 19 I would hope that we don't have this huge 20 miraculous jump in test scores, which is what my 21 fear is right now, because that would mean it became 22 a political decision, not an educational decision. 23 The educational decision should be, train 24 everyone properly, get the right curriculum and 25 materials into the schools, and make sure the 1 teachers understand it, and I would like to revisit 2 the contract so we could look at these Common Core 3 tests more. 4 But, it seems that we are a part of the 5 research and development, and I don't think we were 6 given a break in that contract, because, normally, a 7 company has to spend a lot of money for research and 8 development of a test, but it seems that 9 New York State's children are being used for R&D for 10 the rest of the country. 11 So, I don't even know why we're paying for 12 them. They should be paying us. 13 [Applause.] 14 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you. 15 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Hoylman. 16 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Thank you. 17 Thank you, Mr. Mulgrew, for being here. 18 I really appreciate it. 19 So we, you know, heard the admitted bumpy 20 rollout, to say the least, from the Chancellor. 21 Is there -- to follow up on Senator Martins' 22 question, is -- are the Regents engaging you and 23 other stakeholders in adjusting the rollout? 24 MICHAEL MULGREW: I've had discussions with 25 Commissioner King and Chancellor Tisch. 1 You know, their position was, that they're 2 not allowed to dictate curriculum. 3 My position is, the students and the teachers 4 are the only ones who are bearing the brunt of what 5 was done wrong. 6 And, you know, and I've said it at points, 7 I said, You should be jumping up and down yelling at 8 people. You should be withholding funds from the 9 districts. You should do anything in your power to 10 make sure that they were supposed to do what they 11 should have done. 12 I did not hear a call to action three years 13 ago. 14 I heard, You're responsible for your 15 curriculum. 16 There's superintendents across this whole 17 state. I'm sure you all know quite a few of them. 18 You know, where -- what is their position on 19 this? 20 You know, we can't afford it. You're cutting 21 education at the same time you're asking me to 22 design a whole new curriculum. We're small school 23 districts. 24 So there is no way those districts were ever 25 gonna have the curriculum. 1 And I'm sure as a state, SED was aware of 2 that. 3 I mean, you have, this is always an issue. 4 In my work upstate, this has always been an 5 issue: Small districts do not have the ability to 6 develop these new things. They don't have the 7 funding for it. 8 So if we know that, as a state we know that's 9 a continual problem in education, then there was no 10 way, three years ago, that you -- at that point we 11 could have said, These districts will never have 12 that curriculum in place. Never gonna have it. 13 So, that is still the case. 14 SED did, has put work up on their 15 EngageNY website. 16 Yes, they are not required to do it. 17 But, if you're required to make sure that we 18 have high-quality education in the state of 19 New York, then you know the problem is, new tests 20 equals new curriculum. 21 And that's the first thing that has to be 22 solved, and we still have not solved that. 23 SENATOR HOYLMAN: And you mentioned that we 24 should be getting a break on the tests since we're 25 an early rollout state. 1 Have other states not -- 2 MICHAEL MULGREW: We're second. 3 SENATOR HOYLMAN: We're second. 4 And who was our -- 5 MICHAEL MULGREW: Tennessee. 6 SENATOR HOYLMAN: And have they done a better 7 job, or worse? 8 MICHAEL MULGREW: Kentucky. 9 I'm sorry, it was Kentucky. 10 Oh, no, it was a disaster. 11 SENATOR HOYLMAN: It was? 12 MICHAEL MULGREW: Right. 13 But as -- my work as an AFT vice president 14 is, one of my things we started last year was to 15 say, I said, "Look, it's too late for New York." 16 I made a big presentation at an AFT executive 17 board. I said, It's too late for New York. We're 18 going to have a horrendous, but the rest of this 19 country needs to move and do something quickly. 20 Which is very why, nationally, we have called 21 for a moratorium until the curriculum is in place. 22 The company who is designing the test here 23 for New York State is probably going to try to be 24 selling exactly what it's using here in another 25 state, by using our children as the 1 research-and-development instruments that they need. 2 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Which company is that? 3 MICHAEL MULGREW: It's our favorite company. 4 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Pearson. 5 MICHAEL MULGREW: Pearson. 6 And, you know, and we found out last year -- 7 This was a side piece. 8 -- it depended on what version of the test 9 you had. 10 It seemed that there was a -- whole sections 11 of the test were questions that did not count, 12 because they're trying to develop their Common Core 13 testing regimen. 14 So if you were given -- if you had a child 15 who got one version of the test, the questions that 16 didn't count were at the end, so it didn't matter if 17 you didn't get to them. 18 And almost -- and very few children finished 19 these tests because they were so difficult. 20 If you were the child who got the version of 21 the test where the questions that didn't count were 22 up front, then the majority of questions you did not 23 answer at the end were the ones that counted. 24 I mean, that type of stuff you should not be 25 allowing. 1 And I'm sorry, if a company has a contract 2 with us, we need to be very clear. 3 We're not here to help them develop products 4 to sell to other states. 5 And if we want to help them develop products, 6 then we should be compensated accordingly. 7 SENATOR HOYLMAN: So I think you take it as 8 good news that the field tests are not going to be 9 administered? 10 MICHAEL MULGREW: Yes. 11 SENATOR HOYLMAN: And -- 12 MICHAEL MULGREW: But they are in a lot of -- 13 it's an opt-in/opt-out. 14 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Thank you. 15 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Tkaczyk. 16 SENATOR TKACZYK: We can agree that this has 17 not rolled out well, and you want more time, and 18 I think that's what we're hearing from a lot of 19 folks. 20 Are you concerned, because we haven't done 21 this well, that the kids who are currently in 22 high school and feeling the frustration, that we're 23 gonna see higher -- or, dropout rates and lower 24 graduation rates the next few years? 25 MICHAEL MULGREW: If -- as you roll out the 1 Common Core Regents tests, that is one of my -- that 2 is my main concern, because you're now talking about 3 the children who have done 9 years of school, 4 10 years of school, 11 years of school. 5 Okay, now we're rolling them out, so, it's 6 the ninth-grade Regents that's supposed to be the 7 first, but, because we figure we have more time to 8 catch up with the kid, but, ninth grade is the 9 highest grade for dropout. 10 So if you're having a child who's struggling, 11 just got through elementary school, is now in 12 high school, and then they get hit with a test on 13 things they have never seen before, this is one of 14 my major concerns. 15 My majority of my teaching career was with 16 at-risk children, you know, right before dropout, 17 and so this is a major focus of mine, and this is 18 one of our biggest concerns. 19 And there's been a lot of thoughtful, you 20 know, process about trying to alleviate as much as 21 the intervention that needs to be done, but let's 22 not -- you know, let's not sugarcoat this: The 23 children in high school are more at risk with these 24 tests than anybody else. 25 SENATOR TKACZYK: Well, if one of our goals, 1 as the Chancellor said this morning, was to increase 2 graduation rates and get kids more prepared for 3 colleges and careers, and that's all of our kids, 4 what is it that we need to do to help our kids in 5 those years that are very, you know, fluctuating 6 right now, because we haven't rolled this out well? 7 What should we be doing to make sure schools 8 have those resources to get those kids as prepared 9 as possible for graduation? 10 MICHAEL MULGREW: See, this is the 11 frustration here, because we would need to see the 12 test, and I'm not saying we want the answers or 13 anything. We need to see the format and what the 14 test looks like. 15 They should give us whatever practice things 16 they've been doing, we need to see them, and then we 17 would know what academic intervention services to be 18 put in. 19 If you want to raise real -- you know, if you 20 want to raise graduation rates, we know about career 21 and technical education, we know these things work. 22 We're trying to push this as a city. 23 It's one of the areas where myself, my union, 24 and the City has actually done a lot of good work 25 on. 1 The State, we're doing this. I know the 2 Governor supports it. 3 But, that's an area where we should be 4 pushing more and more, and deemphasizing the tests. 5 Right now, especially for a high school 6 student, in high school, sometimes they think a lot 7 on their own, which is a good thing, and they tend 8 to become more and more of an adult. 9 And if you tell them the only thing that 10 matters in the end is the test, they're probably 11 going to make some bad decisions, especially for 12 high school students, because if you're telling me 13 the only thing that matters -- it doesn't matter how 14 I act in class, doesn't matter if I cut school, 15 doesn't matter if I do my homework -- the only thing 16 that matters is what I do on that test at the end, 17 that's a very bad, bad message you're sending as a 18 teacher. 19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Stavisky. 20 SENATOR STAVISKY: I was going to ask you 21 about, as a former social-studies high 22 schoolteacher, the Regents exams, that was the 23 first -- I'm glad you touched on that, because I 24 find that to be very troubling. 25 The SED has this document, "College- and 1 Career-Readiness." 2 And in it, it talks about aligning curriculum 3 in -- 4 Have you seen -- 5 MICHAEL MULGREW: No, I haven't seen that 6 particular PowerPoint, but I'm sure I've seen what 7 you're about to say to me, before. 8 SENATOR STAVISKY: Then would you answer the 9 question? 10 MICHAEL MULGREW: So it says "aligning 11 curriculum"? 12 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. 13 MICHAEL MULGREW: They're right, right there 14 is the baseline. 15 You can't move a standard until you align the 16 curriculum. 17 SED understands that. 18 We have not aligned the curriculum to the 19 standards we're now teaching -- we're supposed to be 20 teaching, and it's hard. You cannot teach the 21 standard unless you have the curriculum. 22 So, right there, it's very basic. 23 Teacher's given a curriculum, teacher's 24 trained on the curriculum, teacher is supplied the 25 materials that align to it, teacher then goes into 1 the classroom, designs the lesson plan. 2 They use their lesson plan to teach children. 3 What they have control over and what they're 4 responsible for is their lesson plan and the 5 instruction in the classroom, and how they assess 6 that instruction in their children. 7 The other part, the curriculum, the 8 materials, and the training, that's the district's 9 responsibility. 10 That's not happened. 11 SENATOR STAVISKY: Sounds like a "he went 12 that way" (indicating). 13 MICHAEL MULGREW: Once again, here's all the 14 people responsible going like this (indicating), and 15 who's left there are the classroom-- 16 SENATOR STAVISKY: And the children. 17 MICHAEL MULGREW: -- the students and the 18 teachers. 19 SENATOR STAVISKY: I appreciated what you 20 said about Pearson, because the Committee on 21 Higher Education in the Senate has held multiple 22 hearings, dealing with college-board exams and loss 23 of exams, and all sorts of things, and, it always 24 seemed to star the Pearson company. 25 MICHAEL MULGREW: Yeah. 1 We -- we -- I have -- I'm sure you have more 2 on Pearson, and you don't need me to comment 3 anymore. 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I have one question. 5 Just going back, and it's pretty interesting 6 to listen to your take on adoption of the statewide 7 curriculum. 8 We have, as you well know, people who 9 jealously, jealously guard local control. 10 MICHAEL MULGREW: Correct. 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Is it fair to say that UFT 12 supports the adoption of a statewide curriculum, put 13 together in conjunction with SED? 14 MICHAEL MULGREW: What I would recommend at 15 this point, and support, is that we ask the 16 State SED to convene a statewide curriculum 17 committee -- a curriculum project. Leave it to the 18 locals whether they want to opt in or out. 19 This way local control is still in place. 20 I would assume that most people, if you -- if 21 we actually build out a complete curriculum with 22 material alignment -- that is very important -- with 23 the material alignment, most locals would adopt it 24 and then customize it. 25 But, it's much easier customizing off of a 1 complete -- a completed curriculum and material set. 2 It's much easier to customize to what you 3 believe the priorities of your district should be. 4 It's much easier to prioritize off of a 5 finished product than building one yourself. 6 And as you -- well, last year was one of the 7 best funding years in education in the history of 8 New York State, and you guys pulled that off, and it 9 was a wonderful thing. 10 You can't -- these school districts cannot 11 afford to build this curriculum. 12 They're -- could you -- you are funding 13 700 school districts and asking each one of them to 14 pay for the same thing, so of course the companies 15 do not want the state doing this, 'cause they got 16 700 clients. 17 I mean, just put the dollars and cents in 18 business practice to this. 19 They would hate if New York State does this, 20 because we're not going to let you treat each one of 21 our school districts as a client you can sell the 22 same product to 700 times. 23 And, think of all of the taxpayer money that 24 you fought for, and you fight for every year for 25 education, being wasted because we could not get 1 this thing done right and come together as a state, 2 with a statewide curriculum project that each 3 district then can work off of. 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: So let me follow up on 5 that and just tie it into modules. 6 Tell me if you agree: 7 In looking, I think State Ed has made some 8 positive strides, trying to come up. 9 MICHAEL MULGREW: Yes. 10 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And the modules are a 11 reflection of that; yet, a shortcoming at the same 12 time. 13 MICHAEL MULGREW: Correct. 14 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Because I think I heard a 15 number, that there should be as many as 250, or 125, 16 and there's only like 25 or 30 out there. 17 Do you believe that that effort is sort of a 18 microcosm of what you're talking to -- 19 MICHAEL MULGREW: Yes. 20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: -- statewide project? 21 MICHAEL MULGREW: When the State was working 22 on the modules, the Teacher Center of New York City 23 now is working with them on them. 24 But we -- you know, they're individual 25 modules. 1 They're a good start, but they are what they 2 are: they're just an individual module. 3 That does not come with the training, it 4 doesn't come with the material alignment. 5 That's where we should start. 6 And it's just, to me, it's just, 7 management-wise, it's a good management decision to 8 have a curriculum for anyone to choose and work off 9 of. 10 You can't dictate it. 11 I would never take local control away from 12 the school districts. 13 A school district, I might want as a parent, 14 I might want my school district to prioritize a 15 specific area versus a different area. 16 You know, that is why you have -- just as the 17 school should be able to customize to the needs of 18 its students. 19 I understand that. 20 The modules are a good start. It was not -- 21 it is not required. 22 I thanked them for doing it, but I still -- 23 I think now, three years after we decided as a state 24 to move towards Common Core, we now need to start a 25 statewide project. 1 Because, if not, as I said before, you're 2 gonna have districts, you're going into the 3 second year of testing, they still don't have their 4 curriculum. 5 And the only solution that I'm hearing right 6 now is, sooner or later, everyone has to purchase 7 one from a vendor, which is just a waste, a colossal 8 waste, of education funding. 9 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you very much. 10 Appreciate the time. 11 [Applause.] 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Next we have the 13 New York City Department of Education, 14 Chancellor Walcott. 15 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Good morning. 16 I'm not Chancellor Walcott, but I'm happy to 17 represent him here today. 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I'm shocked to hear you 19 say that, Shael. 20 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: He's away today, 21 but, asked me to appear on his behalf. 22 And I'm honored to be here, Senator Flanagan, 23 and members of the Committee. 24 I just, before I sort of go into my prepared 25 remarks, I do want to say that there are actually a 1 lot of -- beneath all of the overheated rhetoric, 2 there's a lot of places where there's real 3 agreement, and I think it's time for the "us versus 4 them" mentality to stop. 5 It's actually hurting our ability to solve 6 these problems, and it needs to end. 7 And so I think part of what I appreciate 8 about your holding this hearing, and hearing from so 9 many different stakeholders, that I think that we do 10 actually have within our grasp some of -- some clear 11 solutions, and I'm gonna talk about several of them 12 in my testimony. 13 But I think that in order to get at that, 14 this is a pivotal moment for our schools, and we 15 really need to talk to each other as opposed to 16 yelling at each other. 17 So let me begin, just talking broadly about 18 what I've seen over the past year, and I think that 19 some of the concerns that have been raised already, 20 and which you'll no doubt hear more about, are very 21 real concerns. 22 This is a historic shift in New York State, 23 and in New York City, and we're doing two huge 24 things at the same time: 25 We're introducing a new set of standards, 1 assessments, and curriculum to go with it; 2 And, we're also introducing a groundbreaking 3 shift in how we evaluate both teachers and 4 principals. 5 And doing both of those things at the same 6 time is a very complicated task. 7 And, it requires a lot of thought and a 8 flexibility, and I think the State and the 9 leadership in the Legislature have a role to play in 10 enhancing that flexibility. 11 One thing that's worth noting, if you look at 12 the data from this past year, is that, while we saw 13 across the state significant drops in student 14 performance, we also saw some interesting things in 15 New York City. 16 Student performance in New York City is 17 closer than it's ever been before to the rest of 18 New York State, even though the city is a much 19 higher poverty community of students. 20 And we also saw that, when the State 21 published teacher-growth scores for the first time 22 this year, that New York City teachers, as measured 23 by these new exams, dramatically outperformed the 24 rest of the teachers in New York State, with twice 25 as many teachers scoring "highly effective," and 1 less than half as many scoring "ineffective." 2 And, so, I think part of what's actually been 3 going on in New York City, is that the work that we 4 started three years ago, to build teacher capacity 5 and school-level capacity to address this big 6 change, is beginning to take root, and you can see 7 it in that data. 8 Now, that's not to say that I'm happy with 9 where the city students are performing, or that 10 I think that we're close to being at the level that 11 we need to be at, but, in that same data, at the 12 high school level, you've seen the state's reported 13 college-readiness rate double over the last 14 six years in New York City. 15 And I think the real question that we all 16 need to be asking is: What do we have to do to see 17 that double again? 18 And the reason why that's the important 19 question, is that we have kids today in our schools 20 who need to be challenged with a different way of 21 teaching, different kinds of assignments. 22 And while curriculum is a central resource 23 and tool, also, how we teach has to change. 24 And, a lot of the work that's been done in 25 the city over these past three years has been 1 focused on some key shifts in what we teach and how 2 we teach. 3 And, so, when we think about what that means 4 as a teacher, it means asking a different kind of 5 question when you're with your students. 6 It means taking up less of the air time in 7 the room from front, and actually giving kids 8 chances to speak and engage with each other, work in 9 teams; do work that allows them to construct 10 knowledge as opposed to just learning it by rote. 11 And, we have begun to see that. 12 And you can see, in hundreds of schools 13 across the city, really exciting and interesting 14 shifts in the way teaching is beginning to occur, 15 and, you're starting to see it show up in the state 16 data that I mentioned before. 17 So, we've heard from our principals and our 18 teachers, both, that they've got their hands full 19 with these big two initiatives coinciding, and that 20 it's not an easy task for them. 21 And I think, in order to address that, 22 I think there are three things that I would suggest 23 the State consider: 24 One, we need more flexibility around the 25 policy implementation; 1 Two, we need to focus early, because the 2 biggest gaps that we're seeing at the middle school 3 level and at the high school level, in literacy, 4 originate well before middle school and high school, 5 and so a focus on early childhood is going to be 6 critical; 7 And, we need more time for teachers to plan 8 together, and to be trained as they go through this 9 transition, that's built into the regular schoolday 10 and is part of what we do every day in every single 11 one of our schools. 12 Now, as someone who's been a teacher, a 13 principal, a district administrator, I know that 14 when you set policy, that you're trying to create 15 some rules for the game that's level and fair, that 16 allows things to proceed, but, it has to be a 17 flexible set of rules. 18 And the way that this law was implemented in 19 New York State at the time the 3012-c was 20 implemented, there's incredible level of detail, in 21 terms of precisely what has to happen in each 22 school, and that is adding to the stress that 23 principals and teachers are feeling. 24 And, so, as I think about the types of 25 flexibility that would be useful, and we've heard 1 Michael Mulgrew speak to this issue in his testimony 2 as well, the question of the new assessments that 3 are required under 3012-c, and there is a lot of new 4 assessments that the law requires, particularly in 5 grades K through 2, for the first time, the law 6 mandates that children are assessed in literacy and 7 in math. 8 And, we worked really hard as we were 9 advocating for how this would be implemented in 10 New York City, to ensure that we actually would not 11 have bubble tests in grades K through 2. 12 And we were largely successful with that, 13 with the exception of 35 schools that are only 14 early childhood schools. 15 So, in the other elementary schools in 16 New York City, we created solutions, in partnership 17 with the State and with the union, that do not 18 require bubble tests at grades K through 2. 19 Part of that solution, though, breaks down, 20 given the state's law, when you don't have grades 3, 21 4, and 5 in your school and you're just a 22 K-through-2 school, and, those tests are not 23 developmentally appropriate for kids. 24 And we want to work with the State to address 25 this issue, and I think that there are solutions 1 that could be found to address that issue in those 2 schools. 3 And I'm proud of the fact that, in the other 4 800 or so elementary schools, we aren't seeing that 5 approach. 6 And that's as a result of that work we did 7 together. 8 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Shael, could I just 9 interrupt you for a second? 10 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Yes. 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: You talked about the 12 flexibility. 13 There's a lot of references to the APPR law. 14 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Yeah. 15 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And, are you referring to 16 the actual written statute, or are you talking about 17 the implementing regulations? 18 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Well, on this 19 particular issue -- 20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I don't recall seeing 21 something that says you have to have this test in 22 first grade. 23 So, it sounds to me there's either 24 regulation -- 25 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: There's an 1 intersection. 2 SENATOR FLANAGAN: -- or some associated 3 policy. 4 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: There's an 5 intersection. 6 I mean, in New York City, as you know, the 7 Commissioner implemented our system, and as a result 8 of the process, we went through and were unable to 9 agree on something together with the union. 10 So, there's a requirement in the law that 11 every teacher have measures of student learning 12 attached to them in English and math. That includes 13 teachers of kindergarten. 14 That's a requirement in the law. 15 Then districts, and in our case, the 16 State Ed Department, have to decide, you know, what 17 are the options that are available to do those 18 assessments? 19 And, so one of the ways that we found, for 20 most of our schools, is, where you have kids in 21 third, fourth, and fifth grade as well, you can make 22 some judgments on how things have gone in the 23 earlier grades, based on how kids perform later, 24 and, so, you don't have to give new tests as a 25 result of that. 1 And that is permitted under the law if you 2 have those older grades. 3 But, at K-2, you don't, and so it gets 4 harder. 5 And I think it is probably within the power 6 of the State Ed Department to work with us to 7 address this particular issue. 8 It's something that we've raised, and they've 9 been open to talking about, but it's complicated. 10 And it's not something -- it's one of many 11 things, I think, that require creative, smart 12 thinking to figure out, well, how do we avoid 13 unintended consequences that flow from some of the 14 decisions that are made? 15 Does that answer your question? 16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes, but it also 17 underscores the difficulty that we have in, to some 18 extent, determining what our appropriate role is. 19 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Sure. 20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: If there needs to be 21 legislative changes, that's a vastly different story 22 than policy implementation in conjunction with the 23 department. 24 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Yeah, and I think, 25 in the example that I gave, it's actually something 1 that would not require legislative change in order 2 to fix this specific issue. 3 But, I think it's worth asking this question 4 more broadly than just New York City, because we had 5 a very specific approach where we intentionally 6 sought to avoid this. 7 And I suspect, if you look around the state, 8 that has not necessarily been something that people 9 caught and figured out how to address beforehand. 10 And, so, you may have many places where, 11 either intentionally or unintentionally, there is 12 developmentally inappropriate assessment occurring. 13 So let me speak now to, sort of, since we're 14 on the early-childhood piece, you know, there's been 15 a lot of conversation across the state over the past 16 year about increasing resources for early childhood. 17 And I would just note one very striking data 18 point that came out of research that was published 19 earlier this year by some folks up at Columbia: 20 Only 3 percent of students who fail the 21 third-grade test in ELA end up passing the 22 eighth-grade ELA test. 23 And, so, the amount of continuity that 24 occurs, if you fall behind in those early grades and 25 you don't have the literacy skills you need, by the 1 time you get to eighth grade, it's very hard to 2 catch up. 3 And, so, thinking about the investments that 4 we can make in early-childhood education are 5 critical. 6 And we've started to do that in the city with 7 the resources available to us. 8 We added 4,000 pre-K slots this past year, 9 and focused them in the highest poverty 10 neighborhoods where the greatest need was. 11 And, we have started to look at, not just 12 this access question, but also at the question of, 13 How do we make sure that early-childhood education 14 is really good? 15 We don't want some of the practices that 16 we've started to see in some of these programs to 17 continue, where developmentally inappropriate work 18 is happening in those schools because people just 19 don't have a background in early childhood. 20 And that requires some real investments in 21 training principals who are supervising 22 early-childhood teachers, as well as building the 23 capacity of early-childhood teachers, to really 24 create meaningful, thoughtful environments for 25 those -- for kids of that age. 1 Speaking more broadly about the kinds of 2 training and professional development that we need, 3 you know, we don't have enough time -- and this is 4 another place I think where there's potential 5 agreement with the union and with the State, but, it 6 hasn't happened yet -- we do not have enough time 7 built into the schoolday to do professional 8 development, to allow teachers to work together in 9 teams, to look at what's working with their kids, 10 and what's not working. 11 And, if you look around the city at the 12 schools that are doing a remarkable job with 13 Common Core implementation -- 14 And I would welcome you to come and visit, 15 because we have hundreds of those schools that are 16 doing really excellent work, and you can see it in 17 their data, and you can see it in their kids' faces 18 when you walk into their classrooms. 19 -- the common denominator in those schools, 20 is that they have found a way to channel time and 21 resources to allow teachers to plan and meet 22 together beyond is in the normal contract, which is, 23 roughly, 45 minutes every 2 weeks. 24 And that just is not enough time to do this 25 work. 1 You know, we need to build up the capacity of 2 75,000 teachers. 3 And, while the curriculum that we've adopted 4 this year, and I'll speak more to that in a second, 5 is a useful resource, curriculum is not the answer 6 to changing teaching practice. 7 You actually have to have job-embedded 8 professional development, you have to look at 9 student work, you have to ask the question: 10 Okay, where's the gap between what my kids 11 are doing now and what these new standards are 12 asking them to do, and how do I close that gap? 13 And how do I start to change how I'm teaching 14 and what I'm teaching in order to meet the kids' 15 needs? 16 And that's going to require time. 17 And I think there's incentives that can be 18 built in to further funding streams that push 19 districts and unions together to identify this. 20 I'm a big advocate for -- of extended time 21 for kids, but I think often in that conversation, we 22 lose track of the critical importance of time for 23 teachers to meet together and to plan. 24 So coming back to the discussion we've been 25 having on curriculum, you know, we started a process 1 in 2010, when the State announced this change, to 2 look for Common Core-aligned curriculum. 3 And what we found, is that publishers around 4 the country were rubber-stamping all of their 5 materials as they saw this wave coming. 6 They weren't changing anything, but you got 7 pretty stickers on all of the books saying 8 "Common Core-aligned." 9 And we banded together with other big 10 districts around the country, because, together, we 11 think we have significant purchasing power, and we 12 put out a set of publishing guidelines, and said, 13 We're not going buy curriculum from vendors unless 14 it's Common Core-aligned, and here's what we mean: 15 It actually has to support the scaffolding 16 that Michael was talking about, and the 17 instructional shifts that teachers need make, in 18 order for it to really be Common Core-aligned. 19 And we went through a really rigorous process 20 in parallel. 21 And, you know, I think it's important to 22 acknowledge that what SED has been doing on this is 23 not minimal. 24 In parallel with the State, they had an RFP, 25 we had an RFP. 1 And, we did ours in parallel because we knew 2 that what they would produce would be an important 3 resource, but not sufficient, and so we wanted to 4 have both options available to our schools. 5 And, it took time to find vendors that 6 actually were able to produce materials that we 7 thought were Common Core-aligned. 8 And, actually, we did not find many. 9 And in some subject areas, there were only 10 one or two. 11 What we sought to do is combine what the 12 State was doing, with what we got back from that 13 RFP, and give every school in the city at least 14 two choices, wherever we could, at each grade level, 15 in both ELA and math. 16 And, so, there are six or seven different 17 vendors that we recommended last February to schools 18 to select from. 19 And we invested over $80 million in 20 purchasing new materials. 21 And some of those materials are those same 22 curriculums that you guys were talking about on the 23 State website, but let's be clear, that none of that 24 is actually the full curriculum. 25 You get the lesson plans, but the lesson 1 plans link to books. 2 You have to buy the books. 3 And, so, we put together packages of 4 resources to go with the state materials for schools 5 that chose the state's curriculum, or -- Pearson was 6 one of them, but there was also Houghton Mifflin and 7 Scholastic and Expeditionary Learning, and several 8 others -- and we purchased those materials together 9 with schools. 10 And I think that we're now in the process of 11 beginning to work with them, and we've always known 12 that this would be a multiyear process. 13 Every conversation we've ever had in 14 New York City with our principals and teachers has 15 been, this is at least a five-year process, and 16 right now we're in year three; we're dead in the 17 middle of it. 18 And, the new curricula resources are gonna 19 help, but the deeper question of, how do we push on 20 the practice? 21 How do we really bring the capacity of all of 22 our educators in the system to a level where we can 23 get the promise of the Common Core? -- which is not 24 about tests. 25 The promise of the Common Core is about 1 getting kids to think critically, and to use their 2 minds well, and to become good writers, and to 3 assign many, many more writing assignments than 4 we've been doing across the grade levels. 5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Can you wrap up -- 6 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: That's good, yeah. 7 SENATOR FLANAGAN: -- because I know my 8 colleagues have questions. 9 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Yeah, we can go to 10 questions. 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Little, and then 12 Senator Martins. 13 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you. 14 What I'm getting out of this, and I agree, 15 that I think the Common Core is good, but, when you 16 have combined that with the APPR at the same time, 17 the teacher assessments, it is creating problems. 18 And what I'm hearing, and -- is the anxiety 19 and the stress being put on, especially when you're 20 talking about children from K to 2, I believe that's 21 ridiculous. 22 And, you want to talk about dropouts, these 23 are kids who are going to dislike school at a very 24 early age, instead of in eighth and ninth grade when 25 they're having trouble with the Regents exams. 1 My granddaughter is in Tennessee in a really, 2 really nice elementary school. 3 Her second week in second grade, she started 4 going to bed in tears over how she was going to do 5 on the third-grade test. 6 And what happens there is, there is so much 7 dependent upon the second-grade teachers, 8 apparently, depend upon how good they are, and how 9 good the third grades do on the test, the 10 second-graders create cheers, and the whole class 11 goes into a third-grade class and cheers them on the 12 day of the test, as well as, the school is full of 13 posters, "Rock The Test"; and, the teachers dress up 14 better than ever; [inaudible] snacks; and all that. 15 And this is just -- you know, as a former 16 teacher, this is not what I would want to see. 17 I have six children. 18 I had one who had, you know, a reading 19 difficulty. She's now a speech therapist and has 20 done well, once she learned how to learn. 21 But, at that early an age, to be putting this 22 much pressure on kids, I think is really going to -- 23 some of them are going to love it, because there are 24 good test-takers; and there are bad test-takers. 25 But, I just wonder what you're doing. 1 I know, this school, this little group of 2 second-graders, because my daughter told the teacher 3 how stressed out she was, they have counseling 4 already for the second-graders, so, they're all 5 going to go to the counselor and talk about how to 6 relax over the third-grade test. 7 I just don't know where we're going in some 8 of those ways. 9 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Yeah, I mean -- 10 SENATOR LITTLE: [Inaudible] here, you've got 11 a pretty -- if you got your schools, all but 35, out 12 of that testing; and, yet, the third-grade teachers' 13 ability is being checked on how they do, those 14 coming out of second grade -- or, the second-grade 15 teachers' ability is based on how the third-graders 16 do. 17 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Right, well, I think 18 one of the responsibilities that we all have as the 19 adults, whether we're teachers or principals or 20 folks at the leadership level or in the Legislature, 21 is to try hard to communicate what it is that really 22 is the focus, and what is important. 23 And I think one of the challenges as the 24 State has made this transition to the more rigorous 25 assessments, is that all of the focus has shifted 1 onto the question of the assessment, as opposed to, 2 what are we doing to make the curriculum, the 3 teaching practice, richer and more engaging? 4 Because we do have to do something different 5 here. 6 Like, let's approach this with some humility. 7 We have, you know, thousands of kids in 8 New York State that are not getting the options that 9 they're entitled to, because we haven't brought them 10 to the level they need to be at in order to really 11 succeed independently when they enter university or 12 enter colleges. 13 And so we do have to ask the question: Well 14 what can we do differently, and how do we do that 15 differently? 16 And I think, you know, fixating on the test 17 score as the driver of that, is a mistake, because 18 the harder question, and also the more interesting 19 question, comes up in those teacher team meetings 20 that I was talking about, where teachers have a 21 conversation about specific kids who are struggling. 22 SENATOR LITTLE: Right. 23 And it's not that we haven't had tests 24 before. 25 I go back to the Iowa tests, and all those 1 things, that the kids always took. 2 It's just that there's so much more riding on 3 the outcome and the measurement, the data that comes 4 from these tests. 5 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Yeah, and that's 6 true. 7 I would also note that, you know, the State 8 just released their first year of results, which 9 don't include New York City, and 1 percent of 10 teachers in New York State were rated "ineffective." 11 And so, yes, there's a lot riding, but, if 12 you're ending up with 1 percent ineffective, which 13 is roughly the same as what we've seen historically 14 in the older evaluation systems, I don't think that 15 we're seeing this massive sort of change, actually, 16 in what -- the change is psychological, and we have 17 to refocus the conversation on what's really 18 important, which is the instructional core; that 19 relationship between teachers and kids. 20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Martins, and then 21 Senator Golden. 22 SENATOR MARTINS: Good afternoon. 23 Just to start, you mentioned it was important 24 to start, or to intervene earlier, so we can address 25 those issues earlier, because it pays dividends, so 1 to speak, down the road. And, if we're able to 2 intervene earlier, the child is more likely to be 3 successful as they go through their educational 4 years. 5 Can you talk to me about what percentage of 6 the children, for example, that enter first grade in 7 a city school will end up graduating from 8 eighth grade from a city school? 9 Because one of the challenges I hear from 10 teachers all the time is that, so much of the 11 population is transitioning through. They're in 12 their classroom for six months, they may be there 13 for a year, they won't be there next year; and, yet, 14 they're being evaluated on partial years or partial 15 time in a certain school, and then they'll move on 16 to another school. 17 And I'm sure that, you know, with all the 18 statistics that you discussed today, you should be 19 able to tell us, you know, whether or not that 20 applies generally, or whether that's specific, or 21 whether or not there really is an issue with 22 children attending school for brief periods and then 23 leaving. 24 And if that's the reality, how do you address 25 that? 1 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: In neighborhoods 2 that have high numbers of immigrant students, there 3 are schools that really struggle with this issue. 4 I was principal of a high school in the Bronx 5 that was designed for immigrant kids 6 [unintelligible] to fail the English-language 7 assessment in order to get in. 8 And we had a lot of kids who were going back 9 and forth to their home countries, or going to visit 10 family at certain points in the year, and we had to 11 work really hard with our families around that 12 stuff. 13 I think, overall, for the system as a whole, 14 that is not our dominant challenge, and there are 15 ways that we adjust for and control for the fact. 16 You know, if the kid has not been in the school long 17 enough, that they aren't factored in. 18 But, I think that it really just is a 19 specific thing, in immigrant communities, but also 20 in some of our higher poverty communities, where 21 parents are moving their residences. 22 SENATOR MARTINS: You mentioned, also, that 23 college-readiness has doubled in the last six years. 24 From what to what? 25 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Roughly 15 percent 1 to roughly 30 percent. 2 SENATOR MARTINS: So in doubling, it's 3 still -- 4 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Very low. 5 SENATOR MARTINS: -- at a very low threshold. 6 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Although, I mean, if 7 you look at, ACT did a study nationally, and it's 8 roughly around that same number nationally. 9 The graduation rate from colleges nationally, 10 is roughly in that 25 to 30 percent range, so, it's 11 not dramatically different here to what you see 12 elsewhere in the country. 13 But, that is why I think, I said earlier, we 14 really need to take a hard look about what's going 15 to change, and how we teach, and what we teach, if 16 we're gonna get a different outcome. 17 SENATOR MARTINS: I also think we need to be 18 very clear, and maybe have a more general 19 conversation, as to what "college-ready" means or 20 "career-ready" means before we start setting a bar, 21 and then determine that only 30 percent of our kids 22 have been able to reach that bar, even though we 23 have been responsible for educating them for their 24 entire lives. 25 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Yeah, I agree with 1 you, and I think that these data, you know, that 2 we're using right now is based on, really, 3 predictions of what kids will do in college, based 4 on how they do in high school. 5 And, one of the things we've started to look 6 at in New York City is, actually, what does happen 7 to kids when they go to college; and what are the 8 characteristics of students that succeed and persist 9 in college? 10 And sometimes the data doesn't actually line 11 up. 12 You see kids who you would have predicted 13 wouldn't succeed, based on their high school 14 performance, doing really well; and others that 15 don't. 16 And a lot of it comes back to academic 17 behaviors and personal, sort of, social skills that 18 are softer skills that are not just the academic 19 skills that kids need, but the ability to persist in 20 the face of failure, when: How do you come back 21 from that? How do you ask for help? How do you 22 work in teams? How do you communicate effectively 23 with your teachers and with peers so that you get 24 the resources that you need? 25 And a lot of those skills are things that 1 we're starting to build into our youth development 2 and into our curriculum. 3 And I think if we just focus on the academic 4 component and we don't focus on the social and 5 emotional skills, we're also going to fail. 6 You know, you have to do both. 7 SENATOR MARTINS: You know, there was a 8 suggestion made earlier today that perhaps it would 9 be wise if the State was to adopt a policy not to 10 issue standardized exams for kids between 11 kindergarten and second grade. 12 Do you have an opinion on that? 13 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Yeah, I said earlier 14 that I don't think that it's developmentally 15 appropriate to do bubble tests or standardized exams 16 at that age. 17 The state doesn't currently have standardized 18 exams, although, the APPR legislation does require 19 assessment, and that's the conundrum that I was 20 speaking to earlier, that we've sort of been working 21 to solve. 22 And I expect that's a challenge in other 23 districts around the state. 24 SENATOR MARTINS: Last point: You started 25 off your presentation talking about, teacher 1 assessments, and how well teachers have done 2 compared to teachers throughout the state. 3 And I am sure that we have wonderful teachers 4 in New York City, and the best teachers perhaps 5 anywhere. 6 But, given the fact that our assessments are 7 based on locally negotiated agreements, and a part 8 of collective-bargaining agreements, how do we 9 compare, from school district to school district, 10 the ratings, when each school district has its own 11 criteria for achieving those ratings? 12 And I know it's in vogue right now that, you 13 know, the papers will publish these results as if we 14 can compare them. 15 And, one school district will have 70 percent 16 highly-effective teachers, and another school 17 district will have 50 percent highly-effective 18 teachers. 19 But isn't it disingenuous to compare them to 20 each other without knowing whether or not they have 21 the same criteria? 22 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Yeah, that wasn't 23 the comparison I was making. 24 What I was comparing was, every teacher who 25 teaches kids in grades 4 through 8 in New York State 1 gets a state-growth score, comparing how the kids 2 did on last year's test to how they did on this 3 year's test. 4 And that is an objective common standard. 5 And on that standard, New York City teachers 6 improved significantly from where they were a year 7 ago, and they dramatically improved with -- 8 outperformed teachers in the rest of the state, 9 which I think is a sign that the intensive 10 professional development that we've been doing for 11 the past 2 1/2 years, and the significant work that 12 teachers and principals have been doing to adapt 13 curriculum. 14 Because it's definitely not accurate to say 15 that there's been no curriculum in the schools or 16 work around curriculum. 17 It's simply not true. 18 That's taking an -- that's taking effect. 19 And I think, you know, we've made all of our 20 materials public as well. 21 We have hundreds of thousands of downloads on 22 our curriculum website from all over the country, 23 including all parts of New York State. 24 And I think that those resources are really 25 working and beginning to have an impact. 1 SENATOR MARTINS: I'm -- no doubt. 2 My concern is that we do not get in the habit 3 of comparing these evaluations between different 4 districts, because they're based on different 5 criteria; and that was it. 6 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 7 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Golden, and then 8 Senator Hoylman. 9 SENATOR GOLDEN: Thank you, sir. 10 According to your testimony, you're in the 11 third year. 12 So you believe that, at the end of '15, 13 2015-2016, beginning school year 2016, we should be 14 should be at the completion? 15 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Yeah, we created a 16 five-year plan, beginning in the 2009-10 school 17 year, began with 100 schools piloting 18 Common Core-aligned work, both professional 19 development and curriculum materials. 20 We picked some of the strongest teachers from 21 those schools to work with expert partners from 22 universities around the country, to develop model 23 curriculum units that were posted publicly, that 24 I was just referencing. 25 We made a requirement in year two that all 1 teachers who teach English and math in the city 2 begin to teach Common Core-aligned curriculum, using 3 those units, or others that they adapted, and, we 4 invested well over, over this period, approximately 5 125 million. 6 So there was a lot of professional 7 development that happened in schools. 8 We had coaches going out to schools to work 9 with teachers. 10 And then, in this third year, we introduced a 11 more formal set of full curriculum materials, 12 because that was actually the point in time where 13 the publishing community, and it's not just big 14 publishers, but some small ones as well that the 15 State has worked with, finally got to the point 16 where we actually had that full set of materials. 17 And, we were not willing to go out and say, 18 we're going to give people stuff just because we 19 want to have something that's rubber-stamped 20 Common Core. 21 So now we're engaging with that work, and 22 it's complex work, too, because no curriculum is an 23 automatic fit. 24 You don't just take it out of the box and 25 slide it in and, suddenly, you're there. 1 You actually have to work with it, and you 2 have to do some really thoughtful planning with your 3 colleagues, to figure out: 4 Well, how's this going to be right for our 5 kids? And, how do we change it and adjust it? 6 And that's what teacher always do. 7 You know, they plan their lessons, whether 8 they're using a textbook or a curriculum, or they're 9 building their own. 10 And that is the work that we're engaged in 11 now, and we need to build in more time for that 12 work. 13 And that's -- if we do do that, I think that 14 what we'll start to see is continued growth in 15 student performance, and, a sense that this is 16 actually a powerful and useful resource that we all 17 want it to be. 18 SENATOR GOLDEN: Now, the results that you're 19 getting over the last two years, three years, and 20 you're looking at this results, and you're comparing 21 this results, and you're seeing the growth in this 22 results, the growth that you see is justified, even 23 though you haven't continued to complete your 24 five-year program, but you're testing it as you go 25 along and you believe that it's working? 1 According to the statistics. 2 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Well, I think that 3 we didn't have a choice. 4 You know, it was the State's decision to make 5 this shift in terms of the exams. 6 And, I'm reporting out to you what the 7 product of that was, is that, we are seeing 8 progress. 9 We also have surveyed extensively. 10 Four out of five teachers in New York City 11 last spring said that they had gotten professional 12 development, both on the Common Core and teacher 13 evaluation, that was strong. 14 And, we've continued to do training over the 15 summer. 16 We had over 15,000 teachers in training 17 throughout the summer on the new curriculum 18 materials that we put out last February. 19 So there's a huge amount of work underway, 20 and we're in middle of it. 21 And so, is it ready? Is it done? 22 The process of improving our schools is not 23 gonna happen in three years. 24 It's not gonna happen in five years. 25 SENATOR GOLDEN: No, no, but you're satisfied 1 with the results as you're moving? 2 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: I think that we're 3 on the right track. 4 I mean, if you look at what happened in 5 Massachusetts, they adopted this work in the mid- to 6 late-'90s and, now, when you look at their data, 7 they are consistently, you know, 10, 15 years later, 8 the top state in the country, because they stuck 9 with it, and they understood that the way you get 10 this change is not through something flashy and it's 11 not through something fast. 12 You actually have to stick with it over many 13 years, and slowly and steadily build up teachers' 14 capacity and school-leaders' capacity to support the 15 work. 16 SENATOR GOLDEN: And the timing of these 17 tests; do you feel that the timing of the tests, the 18 way they're being administered, is a justifiable way 19 to come up with statistics? 20 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: You know, I think 21 that the challenge that we're struggling with is, we 22 have kids right now who are graduating school from 23 New York City this year, who haven't had the benefit 24 of a whole generation of work around the 25 Common Core. 1 And so, we believe that it's urgent. 2 You know, it's not our decision to make, 3 when, and how. 4 SENATOR GOLDEN: I know, but asking you that 5 question: Is the testing timing -- the timing of 6 these tests, do you believe it works? 7 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: I think it's been 8 difficult. 9 SENATOR GOLDEN: And what do you think has to 10 be done to correct that? 11 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: I think we need to 12 invest in creating space and time to continue to 13 strengthen teacher capacity. 14 And I think that we've been very, very clear 15 with our educators in New York City, that no one is 16 going to be punished because the state test got 17 harder. 18 SENATOR GOLDEN: Let's go over to the 19 flexibility, early learning, and time again. 20 We don't need -- as you said to 21 Chairman Flanagan, you don't need, you believe, SED 22 or any -- I'm sorry, you don't need legislation, so 23 you need an agreement with SED to move forward. 24 I would presume you don't need to be part of 25 the waiver to make any of these changes; correct? 1 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: On the K-2 issue for 2 those 35 schools, I don't think it requires anything 3 from the feds. 4 I think it's more, you know, how we can work 5 with the union and SED to come to an agreement on 6 this stuff. 7 SENATOR GOLDEN: And the curriculums and 8 plans for 700 school districts, what do you think 9 about that? 10 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Well, I'm honestly a 11 little bit confused about the earlier testimony, 12 because the State has done exactly what was being 13 proposed. 14 They have built a set of curriculums for 15 English and math across the grades that are impacted 16 by the Common Core. 17 And, you know, there's definitely folks out 18 there that don't like the curriculum, and there are 19 others that do like it, and, it's -- it is also a 20 work in progress. 21 You know, they have released the first part 22 of the year, and there's more coming for the second 23 part of the year. 24 And so I think the concern that was raised 25 about, you know, "How do you really dig in and own 1 that curriculum and plan with it?" is a legitimate 2 concern. 3 But, I don't think you have to restart that 4 process. 5 The process is underway. 6 And, I think probably the challenge is, to 7 figure out how do we take those curriculum resources 8 the state has developed, and where districts like we 9 have, have also purchased resources, how do we work 10 with teachers to adapt them so it's right for their 11 kids? 12 That's the real work, and it's gonna take 13 time. 14 Because, you know, as a teacher, teaching in 15 a new curriculum for the first year, you're learning 16 a lot about it in that first year. 17 And, if you're at the secondary level, you 18 get to teach it a few times, so you can make 19 adjustments as you go. 20 But, for elementary schoolteachers, you don't 21 necessarily get to repeat it several times. 22 And, so, this is gonna be a multiyear process 23 to get the curriculum right, but there's a lot of 24 resources now available, and I expect there are 25 gonna be more coming. 1 You know, I don't think that this first draft 2 of the curriculum that the State has published, or 3 the first draft of what we got, is sort of perfect. 4 And I think, you know, we're getting a lot of 5 feedback from our schools, on where it works, where 6 it doesn't work, what needs to be adjusted. 7 And, we'll continue to sort of look to revise 8 it as we go. 9 SENATOR GOLDEN: The last question: 10 The -- we have a new mayor coming, obviously, 11 into the city of New York very shortly. 12 And, most of your plan is already set in 13 stone, so I would believe that most of your plan is 14 going to continue then. 15 Will there be some changes because of a new 16 mayoral control? 17 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Well, I think the 18 next administration is going to have to look at what 19 is currently in place, and ask the question: Is it 20 on the right track, and how can it be strengthened? 21 And I'm sure they'll want to make some 22 adjustments. 23 But, you know, I think what you're hearing 24 today, even though there are concerns about the pace 25 and the sequencing and the, sort of, details of the 1 implementation, is that, across the 2 State Ed Department, the teachers union, ourselves, 3 there is an agreement that this is the important 4 work, and, figuring out how to work effectively. 5 And, you know, I'll tell you a story, 6 briefly. 7 We had a parent group come to us just before 8 the school year started, and say: 9 We're really worried about how upset and 10 confused parents are gonna be who are now Level 1 11 and Level 2. And we think that you need to change 12 your parent-conference structure, and do it 13 differently this year, and allow more time. 14 And, uhm -- I think Zakiyah is here, 15 actually, from the Coalition for Educational 16 Justice, and they brought a really thoughtful, 17 research-based proposal on how to do that well, and, 18 brought the union and the principals' union to the 19 table, and we worked out a plan that we all thought 20 was smart and it meant adjustments. 21 There was some more money we had to put in. 22 The unions had to be flexible on time, so 23 that parents could actually have a real 30-minute 24 conference to talk about, What does this test mean? 25 But not just, "What does the test mean?" 1 "How's my kid doing in the class so far, and what 2 are their strengths and weaknesses?" 3 And I think that's the kind of model for the 4 collaboration we need, moving forward. 5 SENATOR GOLDEN: I believe the parents are 6 probably very happy to hear that, because that's one 7 of the things that have been lacking in this several 8 years here, is parental involvement, or more 9 parental involvement, at a grammar school and middle 10 school, and high schools. 11 So, I think we're looking forward to 12 listening to that testimony as well. 13 I will be excusing myself. I have a luncheon 14 with some "Sandy" families. And, I have a tragedy 15 that happened in Brooklyn -- I gotta meet with a 16 parent -- earlier this week. 17 I will have somebody here, and we will take 18 all of the testimony. 19 And, obviously, we're going to take this 20 very, very seriously, working with Chairman Flanagan 21 and Chairman Felder and the rest of my colleagues. 22 Thank you, sir. 23 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Hoylman. 24 SENATOR HOYLMAN: One of my concerns, and 25 I think it was annunciated today, is the role of the 1 private testing companies. 2 And, you heard that concern that 3 New York City kids are being used, essentially, as 4 guinea pigs, to a certain extent, and taking, 5 whether it's field tests, which I guess are being 6 phased out, or, taking sample questions on their 7 tests, that seems problematic. 8 In addition, it's my understanding that -- 9 SENATOR LITTLE: Excuse me. 10 Senator Golden? 11 Sorry to interrupt you, Senator. 12 Sorry about that. 13 SENATOR HOYLMAN: No problem. 14 It's also my understanding that parents don't 15 have access to the test questions and answers for 16 private -- from private companies. 17 Shouldn't these test companies be paying for 18 this research rather than using New York City school 19 kids? 20 And can we do a better job, can the DOE do a 21 better job, in negotiating contracts with the 22 private testing companies, to mandate that they not 23 use our kids to test their test questions? 24 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: So let me say two 25 things: 1 Historically, since NCLB was implemented, 2 states have had the responsibility of designing and 3 paying for the tests that the federal government 4 requires in English and math in third through 5 eighth grade, and then in high school as well. 6 And that did not come with any federal funds, 7 that mandate. 8 It was an unfunded mandate, and, you get what 9 you pay for. 10 What we saw across the country, was 11 assessments that were cheap and easy to buy, and, 12 they tended to be these bubble tests that tested 13 very basic skills and didn't push on more authentic 14 forms of knowledge, critical-thinking, kids' writing 15 skills, and so on. 16 And so, when Race to the Top came out, one of 17 the things that the President did, is he funded 18 two consortiums nationally, to pool resources across 19 states, to develop really good assessments that 20 would be different, that are aligned to the 21 Common Core. 22 New York State is part of one of those two. 23 One's called "Smarter Balance," the other 24 one's called "PARCC." 25 Those are now just getting ready to start 1 operation, and we'll have tests available for states 2 to use in the 2014-2015 school year. 3 And that is how most states will begin this 4 transition in terms of testing towards the 5 Common Core, and, each of those consortiums got 6 almost $200 million to do the test design. 7 New York State spends roughly $30 million on 8 its test contracts. 9 So, even though they've done a much better 10 version in this past year than what we've had 11 historically, and they've tried to include more 12 writing, and they've tried to push on 13 critical-thinking, and it is a real improvement, 14 it's still a first draft in terms of a high-quality 15 assessment. 16 And it's not going to be nearly as good as 17 what you're going to see from these larger, 18 better-funded, well-researched attempts across 19 states to try and build better assessments that 20 actually push on a different set of skills. 21 And, so, I think there's a hard decision for 22 the State to make about when to make that 23 transition, and what to do in the interim, and how 24 much to invest to the state's resources in paying 25 for contracts with the existing testing vendors, 1 given that there's this other work that's happening 2 nationally. 3 SENATOR HOYLMAN: So do you envision a day 4 when our students will not be used to take sample 5 tests from the vendors? 6 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: So let me just be 7 clear: I have no power over that decision. 8 I don't make the decision about which tests 9 are used in New York State. 10 So, I don't have an opportunity to look at 11 the questions that you're asking me, and so I don't 12 know, honestly, how those decisions have been 13 arrived at. 14 And, I can't really give you a good answer as 15 a result. 16 SENATOR HOYLMAN: And then, Senator Little 17 raised the issue of kids who have problems taking 18 tests, and might get sick -- and I've heard 19 anecdotal reports of that from constituents -- might 20 get sick, might freak out, may not be able to finish 21 the test, because they're not just able to cope with 22 it at a very young age. 23 Is DOE taking stock of those children? 24 Are you quantifying the kids who, for various 25 reasons, just may not be able to complete a test, 1 not because they're not proficient? 2 And, then, are you working to help them and 3 their parents adjust to this new testing regimen we 4 apparently live in? 5 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: So we did look at, 6 this past year, because a lot of our principals 7 raised questions, particularly on the middle school 8 English tests, about whether kids were able to 9 finish it. 10 And so we did a rough analysis on, you know, 11 were there more kids who didn't finish the exam this 12 year than in previous years? 13 Usually, it's like 1 1/2 or 2 percent. 14 And in sixth and seventh grade for day two 15 for this past state exam, it was closer to 16 5 or 6 percent of students who didn't finish. 17 So there was, on that exam, a higher number 18 of students who were in that position, although it's 19 still, relatively speaking, a small number. 20 And I think our schools are working hard to 21 try and balance, and communicate both with kids and 22 families, about how to manage the anxiety and the 23 stuff that goes along with this. 24 I think we all need to lower the temperature, 25 though, and sort of recognize that, even though 1 there's a very vigorous public debate about whether 2 this is good and appropriate, and how to do it, and 3 what it means, that, sort of passing along the 4 stress that we're feeling as adults to kids is not 5 helpful to them. 6 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Do you have a uniform 7 approach for your districts that you are suggesting 8 in terms of helping -- 9 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Yeah -- 10 SENATOR HOYLMAN: -- teachers, parents, and 11 kids -- 12 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: -- what we did is, 13 we put out a lot of materials in advance of the test 14 about how to talk with kids about the assessments. 15 And, we spent time going around the city, to 16 community meetings, to talk about it as well. 17 And, you know, there was a lot of stress and 18 tension that people articulated, and I don't think 19 that we've solved for that. 20 But I think that if you create caring 21 learning communities where kids are known well, 22 where it's clear that the priority is on providing a 23 rich instructional experience for kids, that that 24 actually creates the right environment, and it's 25 when the -- there's a fixation on, you know, the 1 test score, and getting to a certain level, and 2 that's the only thing people are talking about, that 3 you get some of the problems that we've been talking 4 about. 5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Tkaczyk. 6 SENATOR TKACZYK: Just quickly, you mentioned 7 three things that would be helpful, going forward: 8 We need to focus on early-childhood education 9 services, but you also said we need more flexibility 10 and we need more planning time. 11 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Correct. 12 SENATOR TKACZYK: I know that early-childhood 13 education, that takes resources. 14 But I -- how do we make sure you have the 15 flexibility and planning time you need, as a 16 legislative body? 17 I mean, how do we ensure that you have the 18 time and flexibility to implement this 19 appropriately? 20 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Well, I think, on 21 the flexibility question, it needs to be a close 22 partnership with the State Ed Department and the 23 unions to try and figure out where things are not 24 working; how do we get them to work? 25 We need to make sure that no one is punished 1 because we're in the midst of a transition. 2 And, in any transition, whether you do it 3 perfectly, or whether you don't do it as well as you 4 could, there are gonna be bumps in the road. 5 And, so, that needs to be taken into account 6 in the decisions that are made at the state level 7 and at the district level. 8 And, I'm -- you know, we've already started 9 some of those conversations. 10 I gave one example, and I think that 11 encouraging the State, you know, to work with us in 12 that way is very helpful. 13 And, you know, there may be things that come 14 up that do rise, you know, to the level of, you 15 know, the State just doesn't have the power to fix 16 this, and we need to look at the law itself. 17 I don't think we've reached that point yet, 18 but I think it's possible that we could. 19 I think we should first exhaust the options 20 that we have within the law. 21 On, time, I think that, ultimately, it's a 22 question of districts and unions agreeing to 23 prioritize this as part of teacher's day, and it's 24 something that needs to be part of those contract 25 negotiations, so you can't control that, but you can 1 certainly incentivize it. 2 And you can certainly, in the same way that 3 the State has dedicated resources and funding 4 streams aimed at extended learning time for 5 students, there can be dedicated funding streams and 6 incentives linked to creating really meaningful 7 professional-development time and common-planning 8 time. 9 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Stavisky. 10 SENATOR STAVISKY: Two really quick 11 questions. 12 You mentioned the immigrant population. 13 Would you elaborate on that, because 14 I represent a district in Queens County, 15 School Districts 28, 25, 24, large immigrant 16 population, and growing. 17 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Well, I agree with 18 what was discussed earlier. 19 You know, we've been saying for a long time 20 that we don't think it's appropriate that NCLB 21 requires this one-year testing for kids who are 22 brand new to the country. 23 You know, it was actually instituted, 24 partially from immigrant advocates who were worried 25 that immigrant kids were not being paid attention to 1 in states, but it's not -- it's not right. 2 You know, it often takes three to five years 3 for kids to develop academic language skills. 4 Like, you can learn the language in a year, 5 and sometimes even faster, but, getting to the point 6 where you can function, you know, in an academic 7 level takes longer, and so you need to build in that 8 developmental time. 9 At my school, the way we handled it was, 10 because we were part of the state's Regents testing 11 system, we didn't give any Regents exams in the 12 first two years at our school, because we wanted to 13 focus on language development. 14 And we taught the curriculum, and we sort of 15 embedded a lot of work around literacy, to get kids 16 to a point where they were comfortable and 17 proficient in English, and then we started working 18 with them on passing the state exams. 19 And that worked. 20 But, it's going be different in different 21 schools. 22 You know, we announced, we were very troubled 23 by the, sort of, grad rates for our English-language 24 learners that came out this past year, because this 25 was the first year that all kids had to pass at 1 a 65. 2 You know, this was another effort by the 3 State to raise the standards. 4 And, for English-language learners, that was 5 more difficult because, for the first time, on both 6 the history exams and the English exam, they had to 7 get to 65, and so we saw it drop. 8 And we've invested $4 million to expand, sort 9 of, some of the strong practices, because it didn't 10 happen across the city. 11 Like, there were great schools that serve 12 very high-need immigrant populations that did not 13 see that drop. 14 And, so, we know that there's a way to do 15 this. 16 We know that we've the approaches out there, 17 and we need to figure out how to spread them. 18 SENATOR STAVISKY: PS 20 in Flushing, they 19 speak well over 100 languages in that one school 20 alone. 21 A totally different issue. 22 I asked the Chancellor, Chancellor Tisch, 23 about the lack of preparedness for college on the 24 part of many students. 25 And, in fact, a number of years ago, I tried 1 to find a correlation between, high school, how they 2 were doing in high school, and how they were doing 3 at the community-college level, for those who needed 4 remediation in either math or English. 5 Have you thought about working with CUNY? 6 And, I was very surprised at the budget 7 hearings to hear Chancellor Zimpher say this is a 8 serious problem at SUNY also, in terms of tracking 9 the students. 10 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Yeah, I mean, 11 I think remediation at the community-college level 12 is a deeply failed model. 13 CUNY just started a new community college 14 that does not have remediation. 15 They engage kids in the real curriculum from 16 day one, and they put a lot of supports in place, 17 acknowledging that they're going to need support. 18 And, they're seeing double the rates of 19 retention as the traditional community colleges. 20 That said -- 21 SENATOR STAVISKY: Do you see, though, the 22 same correlation between the children who fail the 23 third-grade test? 24 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Yeah, the literacy 25 issues, you know, the pattern goes beyond 1 eighth grade. It goes right into college. 2 And, so, you know, there are a lot of 3 opportunities along the way to turn that around. 4 You know, one of the things we started was a 5 specific project, looking at our most vulnerable 6 kids, Black and Latino males in high school who are 7 the ones that have been more likely to drop out, and 8 had some of the lowest college-readiness rates. 9 And we took 40 of our schools that were 10 actually doing a decent job with those students at 11 graduating them, but were really struggling on 12 college-readiness, and we gave them grants to add 13 additional social workers, additional academic 14 enrichment, into their curriculum, additional 15 college-advising options. 16 And, that's at the beginning. You know, 17 they're in year one of that initiative. 18 But, as part of that, we had researchers go 19 and interview kids who are in college, who 20 succeeded, and, try to build backwards from that, 21 you know, what are the kinds of skills we need to be 22 building in in order to help those students succeed? 23 And I think that, you know, there's some 24 really interesting work that's emerging from that 25 initiative. 1 And, I'm proud of the fact that, you know, 2 when we started this work around the Common Core, we 3 didn't just do it at the elementary and middle 4 school level. We did it at the high school level, 5 too. 6 And I think we're gonna start to see in the 7 data, some gains. 8 You know, we -- it's been slow and steady, 9 but, it is starting to change how we're teaching at 10 the high school level, and we're giving kids a 11 different kind of experience. 12 So, we're very much in middle of it, but 13 I think it's promising. 14 SENATOR STAVISKY: And I know the community 15 colleges are also working with their students along 16 the same. 17 I just hope you will consider the concept, 18 that I think is so important, of, 19 pre-kindergarten -- as education being 20 pre-kindergarten through grade 16, not 12. 21 SHAEL POLAKOW-SURANSKY: Well said. 22 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you very much. 23 We have a practical consideration, we have to 24 change the tape. 25 So, we're taking a five-minute break, and 1 then we have four parents coming up, which will be 2 our next group. 3 So... 4 [A recess was taken.] 5 [The proceeding resumed, as follows:] 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: All right, so our next 7 group, we have Lisa Shaw, Nancy Cauthen -- I hope 8 I'm saying it correctly -- Karen Sprowal, and 9 Jan Johnson. 10 KAREN SPROWAL: Where is everybody else? 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I don't know. 12 Can we get names with the faces, please? 13 NANCY CAUTHEN: Nancy Cauthen. 14 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Nancy, okay. 15 LISA SHAW: Hello, Lisa Shaw; four children 16 in New York City public schools. 17 KAREN SPROWAL: Karen Sprowal. 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: All right, and then we 19 had -- Jan Johnson? 20 KAREN SPROWAL: She came in the building. 21 I think she went to the bathroom. 22 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay, why don't we start, 23 right on my right here. 24 And let me just offer to everyone as well, as 25 I had expressed earlier, all the testimony, the 1 written testimony, has been submitted. That's all 2 part of the record. 3 You're all parents, you're all moms, I know 4 you can summarize and be -- speak right from the 5 heart. 6 So, go ahead. 7 NANCY CAUTHEN: Yes, and I promise I will not 8 read from my papers, but I did actually make a bunch 9 of notes based on a lot of what was said before. 10 So, my name is Nancy Cauthen. I have two 11 kids, a 12-year-old and a 16-year-old. 12 First, I just want to thank you for doing 13 this. 14 I mean, I think, as you know, so many parents 15 around the state feel like we've had a lot of 16 concerns for a lot of years, and we haven't been 17 heard. 18 So, we really appreciate the opportunity to 19 be heard. 20 I appreciated a lot of what was said before 21 about the kids and the early grades. 22 I have friends, you know, whose kids are 23 entering in K, or just getting to the third-grade 24 tests, and I have to say, I am grateful that my 25 children are beyond that, because it is just very, 1 very upsetting to watch. 2 But because my children are older, you know, 3 my oldest son, who is actually here, my 16-year-old 4 is here, because, as of this fall, I pulled him out 5 of high school to home school him, because I was 6 just fed up with all of this. 7 So, you know, I know we're talking about a 8 new set of reforms, but for some of us, it's been, 9 like, he entered kindergarten the year No Child Left 10 Behind went into effect, and, so there were lots of 11 issues with all of that, with all the tests. 12 And, so, some of us are really weary, just, 13 you know, getting to this latest level. 14 I guess I want to speak to a couple of 15 different things. 16 Not only am I a parent, I'm also a 17 sociologist. 18 I spent ten years working at the 19 National Center for Children in Poverty at 20 Columbia University, so, you know, when I come to 21 these issues, I come as a parent thinking about my 22 own children. 23 But, you know, my children, ultimately, 24 whatever you all do to them, education-wise, they're 25 going to be fine. 1 They'll -- you know, they have two highly 2 educated parents, you know, we'll help them find 3 their way. 4 But, I'm extremely concerned about those 5 children who, you know, don't have supportive 6 parents, who are coming into the system with lots of 7 things, you know, that are hard to make up for. 8 I guess I want to talk a little bit at a high 9 level. 10 One thing that I feel very upset about is, 11 not only have parents not been heard, but I feel 12 we've been sold a set of reforms with some 13 deception, some false promises. 14 And a part, this issue of this sense of 15 urgency, that we keep being told, you know: We've 16 gotta do this fast. We can wait, we can't wait, 17 because, you know, our kids are failing in 18 international comparisons. And our -- you know, our 19 high school graduates, you know, can't -- can't -- 20 they need all this remediation. 21 But, you know, the situation is a lot more 22 complex than that, and I feel like those 23 characterizations of those issues gloss over, that 24 so much about what we are talking about, comes from 25 poverty. 1 And until we put that front and center of 2 this discussion, schools can do a lot, but they can 3 only, you know, do stuff around the margins. 4 And I know you're the Education Committee, 5 and that's what we're here to talk about, but 6 I really think that that needs be said. 7 When you look at the international 8 comparisons, you know, if you disaggregate the data 9 by socioeconomic status, middle-class and 10 higher-income kids in public schools in the U.S. are 11 quite competitive, and come out, you know, towards 12 the top. 13 It's our low-income students who don't. 14 You know, we were just hearing about 15 Massachusetts, and it's true, they've been, you 16 know, doing reforms for a lot of time, but 17 Massachusetts is also a wealthy state. 18 So, if you start comparing individual states 19 to, say, other countries, you know, you see that the 20 wealthy states come out quite well; and, also, the 21 states that may not be wealthy but don't have a high 22 proportion of children living in poverty. 23 So, it's not just that, oh, the -- our kids 24 are falling behind because our education system is 25 failing. 1 Our kids are also falling behind because more 2 and more of them are growing up in low-income 3 families, and, that's -- you know, that's not gonna 4 go away. 5 I guess the second thing is this -- the issue 6 of college-readiness. 7 And I was glad to hear Shael, and I call him 8 Shael, because, in New York City, I have to say, he 9 has been more responsive to parent concerns than a 10 lot of officials at -- in New York City, but, also, 11 at the State Department of Education. 12 So, you know, I think he tried to put some of 13 that in perspective in terms of, only 30 percent of 14 our young people in this country, you know, people 15 under 30, have a 4-year college degree. 16 All right? 17 So, if we're saying that 35 percent of our 18 high school graduates can do college-level work, 19 that is not the crisis that it's made out to be. 20 Okay? 21 The other part of that is, we hear, and 22 I understand, I mean, I agree it's a big problem, 23 you know, what the CUNYs and -- especially are 24 saying to us, the community colleges are saying 25 about, we get all of these student who is aren't 1 ready to do the work. 2 But, again, if you put that in a larger 3 perspective, part of that is because college 4 enrollment among low-income and minority kids has 5 steadily been going up. 6 I mean, college -- community colleges used to 7 serve, you know, an older population as a whole, 8 very different from the 4-year college, you know, 9 18- to 25-year-olds. 10 Now we have a lot of 18- to 25-year-olds 11 going to community colleges, and so they're kids 12 that, a generation before, they wouldn't have even 13 gone to community college. 14 So, I think that's important to remember: we 15 have a lot of young people with very high 16 aspirations. 17 They understand that to, you know, get along 18 in the labor market, and -- they understand they 19 need some sort of, you know, post-secondary 20 credential. 21 And so I guess part of -- what I'm saying is, 22 there's a good-news element there. 23 Community colleges are seeing more students 24 who aren't prepared for college because, before, 25 those kids wouldn't have even tried to go to 1 college. 2 All right? 3 That doesn't make it okay, it doesn't mean 4 that we don't, you know, need to address it, but, 5 again, I think it -- it -- it's not the crisis -- 6 it's a different crisis than the one it's made out 7 to be, because those statistics about, you know, 8 24 percent of students coming in, you know, who get 9 a 2-year degree in 6 years, some of that's 10 remediation. 11 Part of that, and I just know, because it's 12 something I've studied and written about, those 13 kids, they don't have the financial support, they 14 have family responsibilities, they have all kinds of 15 things weighing down on them, that keep them from 16 graduating. 17 So, it's not just the lack of preparation 18 they got in the school system. 19 That's all a long way of saying, let's not 20 blame the school system for everything that comes 21 from the fact that we have a society that's willing 22 to tolerate an enormous amount of wealth and income 23 inequality. 24 So, all right, I'll get off that soapbox. 25 Let's see, the next thing I wanted to say, as 1 a parent, and getting much more concrete as parent, 2 is the process by which the Common Core was 3 developed. 4 I feel, like, for someone who's an engaged 5 parent, and knows -- you know, tries to keep on top 6 of what was going on, it was a long time before 7 I even really knew what it was. I mean, there just 8 hasn't been a lot of information out there. 9 And then we're told: Oh, you know, this is a 10 State-led effort, and there were all these various 11 stakeholders. 12 And it even says, now, you know, this is the 13 federal DOE site, so this has nothing to do with the 14 state, but, you know, it tells us that, you know, 15 teachers and experts and researchers were involved, 16 and, community input, you know, was sought from 17 community leaders and parents. 18 And it's, like, huh? 19 I mean, when I look at the lists of who 20 created those standards, it wasn't a lot of 21 educators. It's a lot of people connected with 22 testing companies. 23 And, you know, that's -- creates a real 24 credibility problem for parents. 25 I'm one of these people who, I know, you 1 know, as a nation, we disagree as to whether or not 2 national standards are a good idea. 3 I personally, for familial reasons, believe 4 in national standards. 5 Both my husband and I are southerners by 6 birth. 7 My husband is African-American, went to a 8 segregated elementary school in South Carolina. 9 And so, you know, from his perspective, when 10 the federal government came in and said, No, you 11 know, you can't do this. You have to do a better 12 job of educating, you know, kids; it's like, the 13 federal government is not evil, and it's good to 14 have the federal government coming in and having 15 some oversight. 16 So, I was actually -- you know, I was 17 cautiously optimistic. 18 And when I heard some of the things being 19 talked about, about critical-thinking and all of 20 that, I was excited. 21 And then when I started really digging, and 22 find out all the private interests driving all of 23 that, and, then, despite all of the talk about 24 critical-thinking, you know, career- and 25 college-readiness seems to be, in some ways, being 1 defined in terms of, you know, what employers want 2 out of the workforce. 3 Some of us have some higher ideals for 4 education, believe that public education is 5 important, for social inclusion and social cohesion, 6 and having a vibrant democracy. 7 And, so, to see this corporate spin put on, 8 you know, "What is the function of public education 9 and democratic society?" being, you know, defined by 10 corporate interests, I find very, very troubling. 11 And -- 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I'm gonna have to -- 13 excuse me, we have -- I need you to summarize, 14 because you have a number of your colleagues here 15 and I want to make sure everyone gets a chance to 16 talk, so, if you could -- 17 NANCY CAUTHEN: Okay, I'm sorry. 18 We were told we would get ten minutes, so, 19 I guess that's not true. 20 So, let me get to the -- the bottom line. 21 You know parents are angry. 22 I don't have to -- I don't have to tell -- 23 I don't have to tell you that. 24 I think one thing, where some of us are now, 25 is that we tried to have our voices heard, we were 1 ignored. 2 We came together collectively, our voices 3 were still not heard. 4 Then, when we started, those of us in 5 New York City, reaching out to parents in the 6 Hudson Valley and on Long Island, and all over, we 7 started to be heard, and then we were accused by 8 State Education officials of being pawns of the 9 teachers union. 10 And I think, you know, we -- I had a very 11 hard time listening to Chancellor Tisch, because, 12 now, we're told we're being heard, but the talking 13 points are still the same. 14 We still hear, Yes, we have some adjustments, 15 but this is still going forward. 16 And, so, no matter what we say, it just 17 seems, like -- I mean, you've heard the depth of the 18 concerns from all of the previous hearings and all 19 the parents you've heard from, and I'm sure all of 20 these e-mails that you're getting. 21 So I guess my final statement would be: 22 We're really pissed, and we're not going 23 away. 24 And things better change, because we're gonna 25 get even more angry, and we're going to continue to 1 organize until we feel like we have some amount of 2 control over our children's education once again. 3 [Applause.] 4 SENATOR FELDER: With all due respect, I just 5 wanted to mention that you've been speaking more 6 than 10 minutes. 7 So -- yeah. 8 NANCY CAUTHEN: Was I really? 9 SENATOR FELDER: Yes. 10 NANCY CAUTHEN: I'm sorry. 11 SENATOR FELDER: Which is -- 12 NANCY CAUTHEN: I'm sorry. 13 SENATOR FELDER: No, no, don't be. You don't 14 have to apologize to me. 15 NANCY CAUTHEN: I apologize. 16 SENATOR FELDER: You should apologize to the 17 Chair. 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: No, no, no. 19 NANCY CAUTHEN: No, no, I'm sorry. 20 I'm usually a very disciplined speaker. 21 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Your passion is 22 appreciated. 23 NANCY CAUTHEN: I'm sorry. 24 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I'm just trying to be -- 25 I don't want to give anyone short shrift -- 1 NANCY CAUTHEN: No, no, and I'm sorry. 2 SENATOR FLANAGAN: -- but unless we're all 3 gonna be here for dinner and enjoying each other's 4 company -- 5 NANCY CAUTHEN: No, no, no. Oh, no, I'm 6 sorry. 7 I really am thick. 8 Thank you for -- 9 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Please don't apologize. 10 Go right ahead. 11 LISA SHAW: Hello, I'm Lisa Shaw, with 12 four children here in New York City. 13 I started being involved in the movement 14 against the education reform when I was so horrified 15 to learn that the New York SED was giving away my 16 children's private and personal information without 17 my consent. 18 It's the parent's intuition to protect their 19 children from the unspeakable, and that's what 20 inBloom is doing. 21 Why should everything that a school collects 22 about my children be hosted on an Amazon cloud, and 23 then be sold or given away to companies who are 24 going to profit off the data? 25 And then they're going to use the marketing 1 materials, back, to sell it to the schools, and to 2 probably the parents and the students later. 3 I find this just insulting. 4 Parents are told that the cloud data is safe, 5 but, is there any cloud that's really safe? 6 In fact, inBloom denies any responsibility 7 for breaches. 8 And we held a -- there was a Brooklyn 9 town-hall meeting. InBloom was invited; they failed 10 to show up. 11 There was no representative, other than -- 12 other than a young girl from New York City to answer 13 all of our questions. 14 So, all of our questions were unanswered. 15 Where is our data? 16 Have you transferred it yet? 17 Nobody could answer it. 18 We can't get the information out. 19 But, yet, New York City will tell us that 20 it's public information. 21 I had to search on the Internet to find the 22 contract that John King signed. 23 So, we just want more transparency, 24 especially with our children's personal information. 25 Identity theft, it's the fastest-growing 1 crime in America, and who'd suspect our public 2 schools could allow this to spread? 3 It's the student's name, date of birth, their 4 race, address, parents' details, personally 5 identifiable information, test scores, grades, 6 attendance, discipline, learning style, 7 IEP classification, related services, doctors' 8 names, prescriptions, disabilities, behaviors, 9 suspensions, are all fed into the inBloom 10 enumerations fields: 400 data points. 11 So, I consider it identity theft and a 12 violation of HIPAA laws as intended. 13 Giving all the student data to anybody -- 14 vendor who networks with part -- that networks with 15 the SED is part of the inBloom plan, but, taking 16 back the data is impossible for parents. 17 There is no place for a parent to check all 18 of this data, if it's correct or not either. 19 And, then, what happens after you end the 20 contract, if it is ended, with the New York SED? 21 All that data is still out there with all of 22 the vendors, and maybe on federal longitude files. 23 That is, essentially, tracking and 24 pigeonholing children for the rest of their life. 25 And what really concerns me, is all of this 1 data could really, essentially, track children, and 2 it will unfairly prejudice educational institutions 3 and potential employers against a student. 4 I consider that unethical. 5 Many children, like my children, may outgrow 6 their disabilities or outgrow their speech and 7 learning disabilities. 8 Why should this follow a child to their 9 college, to career? 10 This is insulting. 11 Even some parents in private school are 12 paying for speech therapy outside of the school so 13 that that child will never be tracked and followed. 14 Also, the charter-school students and 15 private-school students. 16 So I really find it unfair. 17 I downloaded the Medicaid form from the SED 18 website. 19 It doesn't even list on here the parent's 20 denial of consent, and it is a parent's right to 21 deny reimbursement for Medicaid. 22 This will cost the state millions of dollars. 23 I encourage every parent to not sign this, 24 because this is a way of protecting our data. 25 This is all what I've done to try to protect 1 it, and this is my appeal to opt out: 2 I have contacted state, local, and federal 3 government agencies, asking for help, to allow my 4 children to opt out. 5 In fact, Ken Wagner, John King, 6 Chancellor Walcott, failed to reply to my multiple 7 e-mails and phone calls for a way to opt out of 8 inBloom. 9 Sometimes 20 e-mails with detailed 10 explanation, but there would be no reply. 11 Also, I went to a town-hall meeting and 12 I asked Chancellor Walcott: Why have you not 13 backpacked home a letter informing the parents about 14 inBloom? 15 There are so many parents who do not even 16 know about it. 17 He failed to answer that also. 18 So, it just infuriates parents because we're 19 so upset nobody is listening to us, the idea that 20 they're selling out the students of New York City. 21 Meanwhile, smaller classes are what will help 22 support students' learning, not the data mining and 23 the expensive dashboards by inBloom. 24 My 7-year-olds are in classes with 25 30 students. Just a few students were just added in 1 last week. 2 These are the largest class sizes in 3 14 years. 4 So, I don't see how a computer system are 5 going to help those students when a teacher cannot 6 give individual help to those students. 7 So, in the end, I came up with my own system. 8 My solution is to refuse data input. 9 The ways I've gone to escape inBloom, is to 10 stop feeding the database, and that's deny the data. 11 So, I don't sign the Medicaid forms, related 12 service. 13 I don't fill out school-lunch forms. 14 I deny photos; assessments; videos for 15 teacher evaluations, including the SLOs, pre-, 16 mid-year, and end-of-year, and the measures of 17 student learning which schools have to give for 18 their growth, because these are part of the 19 teachers' evaluations. 20 I also opt out of the state math and ELA 21 tests. 22 Parents do have that right under FERPA to 23 withdraw their consent for Medicaid at any time. 24 It would be nice if the SED had that listed 25 on their form, but they don't. 1 So, this invasive nature of inBloom, it makes 2 me go to any extreme I can. 3 I'm looking for a private school, which is 4 hard with four children, or, moving to another 5 state. 6 So I'm trying to drastic ideas to try to 7 escape the long clause of inBloom and their 400 data 8 points following my children. 9 Hopefully, the Student Privacy Bill, 10 S5930-2013, will pass, which will protect student 11 privacy. 12 So, despite the weakening of privacy laws in 13 the last couple of years, I really find this 14 criminal. 15 And, we're begging our political figures to 16 please listen to us parents, because this is what 17 we're going to use: We're going to use our vote in 18 the future, because nobody has listened to us. 19 We want to be heard. 20 We don't want our personal information out 21 there. 22 It even has -- it even follows, the teachers' 23 test scores are tied it to also, which is a little 24 frightening for the teachers. 25 I wanted to talk about Common Core, too, 1 because they were not State-developed, as Ken Wagner 2 presented to you, but it was a national top-down 3 curriculum that the governors were coerced to sign, 4 and it was bypassed Congress even. 5 They're a solution to problem that doesn't 6 even exist. 7 Teachers have been able to create wonderful 8 curriculum throughout history. There's never a lack 9 of it on the market; but, yet, the testing companies 10 and the curriculum producers are the ones who are 11 going to be making all the profits off of this 12 education reforms. 13 We're -- meanwhile, at the schools, our math 14 specialists and our reading specialists, recovery, 15 all of those are stripped away from the schools. 16 And, so, how can children who are expected to 17 work on Common Core Standards, which requires every 18 student in third grade to be reading in class on 19 Level 0, but, maybe they're speech-delayed, they 20 have auditory processing, or they're 21 English-language learners, or they're coming in from 22 foster care without a stability of their home, how 23 can they be following along in the class on this 24 reading level? 25 Because now, the only way that you can read 1 on your grade level -- on your reading level, is 2 books at home, which some students do not have 3 access to, so how will these students ever catch up? 4 I feel like it's a disparity, and it's just 5 growing more and more between the haves and the 6 have-nots. 7 My children get home from school and they 8 go -- they do -- we do homework, until they go to 9 bed at night. We have 30 to 40 minutes each. 10 And I have triplets in third grade, so that's 11 reading age. 12 And then we have math worksheets, and then 13 we've paragraph writings, and -- so it's very 14 difficult. 15 By the end of this year, we're -- I'm 16 supposed to be reading to them for 50 minutes each, 17 plus all the other homework. 18 I mean, that's barely time to take a shower, 19 and have dinner. 20 I want to know where is the time for our 21 family, for ourselves? 22 They've gone from loving school, to asking 23 why it is so hard. 24 You know, even if students opt out of the 25 pre- and mid- and end-of-year assessments, there's 1 so much testing time. 2 Have you seen what third-graders are tested? 3 These are only the actual tests. 4 You think about, they take three or 5 four practice tests before the state test, for 6 third grade, for fourth grade, for fifth grade. 7 But look it, for the SATs, it's only 8 3 1/2 hours; but, yet, our third-graders are 9 spending 7 hours on the actual test every year, not 10 to mention all the other tests that are involved in 11 school. 12 The testing amount of time has just 13 increased, and now that they're gonna get away from 14 field tests, because parents can opt out of them, 15 they're embedding more questions in the tests. 16 So, I just think that Common Core is a -- is 17 mediocre for the knowledge and skill sets which are 18 already available on the market. 19 We need to take all of that money that's 20 being wasted on this implementation and these design 21 standards to help struggling students. 22 Small class sizes, early education, and 23 wraparound support for schools in need. 24 My school even hired a yoga teacher during 25 testing season, to try to get them calmed down. 1 There was students that fell ill during the 2 test. And, also, there was a student that fainted. 3 But, yet, I go to my SLT meetings, and some 4 of the people will stand up and say, Oh, those 5 things don't happen at our school. 6 So the parents are speaking, but we need our 7 voices to be heard. 8 And that's why we appreciate coming to this 9 hearing, being able to speak today, because this is 10 what we're hoping we can benefit out of these 11 hearings. 12 But the last and most important thing of all 13 is, we're so frustrated about the nonconsensual use 14 of our children's data. 15 This is the most unacceptable infringement 16 upon personal information being shared. 17 The re-disclosure of this data to unlimited 18 parties, it just bypasses parental rights. 19 These are my children, don't forget. They're 20 not a ward of the State or the federal government. 21 So, I plead with you to help us stop inBloom 22 from data mining our children. 23 It's small class sizes that will provide 24 personal learning, and not expensive, injurious data 25 mining, partnered with school dashboards that will 1 only line the pockets of Gates, Murdoch, and 2 Pearson. 3 [Applause.] 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you. 5 LISA SHAW: Thank you. 6 KAREN SPROWAL: I think it's afternoon. 7 Good afternoon. 8 Thank you. 9 Wow, Lisa pretty much covered most of the 10 stuff that I was going to speak about. 11 First, let me just thank you very, very much 12 for coming here, and giving us the opportunity as 13 parents to speak to you directly, because I feel 14 like our voices have just been fallen -- just have 15 fallen on deaf ears. 16 And it's like Lisa said, sending e-mails, 17 going to the -- there's just no place for us to be 18 heard and to have a dialogue. 19 So I really thank the Committee for allowing 20 us to have the opportunity to come in and speak as 21 parents. 22 I want to personally thank Flanagan -- 23 Senator Flanagan, for your work on public education, 24 in terms of your work in reducing class size. 25 My son is a child who has the IEP and 1 requires a lot of services, and he's been in public 2 schools for four years now. 3 The best year that he ever had, the most 4 productive year, in fact, it was so productive, he 5 was even considered for a gifted program, was the 6 year that he had a class of 15 students and 2 great 7 teachers. 8 Since that time, he has had so much supports, 9 and all kinds of things, I mean, you know, to 10 support him so he can thrive and do better. 11 And he has just -- despite all of my 12 engagement and having the great school that I'm 13 working with, he has not done nowhere near as well 14 as he did that one year when he had that reduced 15 class size. 16 So I thank you from the bottom of my heart 17 for understanding that this is something that's real 18 simple. 19 It's not that complicated; it's real simple 20 stuff that can get us to where we want to go. 21 And also, once again, Senator Flanagan, the 22 work that you did on identifying and understanding 23 that schools that had high needs needed additional 24 resources, not to just be dismissed as failing 25 schools and closed up, and putting in a new set of 1 teachers in and call it a different name. 2 We need to look at these schools that 3 required more resources and services, and identify 4 them and give them the resources that they need. 5 So I thank you personally for your work with 6 that. 7 I know you said we're not supposed to read. 8 I've never done this before. I've never sat 9 and spoke to senators. 10 This is such an emotional, I'm fighting back 11 tears right now, just to have the opportunity to be 12 here to speak, to speak about this subject. 13 This is so personal. 14 These are our children. You know how 15 personal it is when it's your children. 16 And I really, really believe in the 17 public-school education system. 18 It is -- it's one of the greatest things that 19 we have as Americans. 20 It doesn't matter what political affiliation 21 you are, whether you're rich, whether you're poor, 22 or who you are, whatever; you come into these 23 schools and these teachers educate them. 24 And I don't think of our schools as just 25 buildings of brick and mortar. 1 It's a community that's living, breathing, 2 vibrant, and we take care of each other. 3 It's not just about academics. 4 It's that African village, so to speak, that 5 people had spoke about, people speak about. 6 It's a community. 7 So, it's something that's extremely sacred to 8 me. 9 So I'm gonna constantly -- I've only got one 10 page here. 11 I'm going to constantly look more at this 12 while I say this, so that I'm not all over the place 13 and start crying. 14 Okay? 15 So bear with me; please engage me. 16 Okay? 17 So first of all, this is my son Matthew. 18 I want you to get a visual so we're not 19 speaking of somebody that we can't see. 20 So this is Matthew. 21 Everybody see this? 22 [Displaying a photograph.] 23 This is Matthew. 24 Okay, this is him just before he entered 25 school. 1 About 18 months ago, I learned about the deal 2 between the New York Education Department and the 3 Gates Foundation to develop this system, where they 4 were supposed to streamline information and make 5 data more accessible to families and teachers, to 6 improve how we deliver services and teach kids, and 7 have a more personalized learning experience. 8 And, initially, when I heard about it, it 9 sounded, yeah, okay, this makes sense. We're in a 10 digital age where, you know, we have to keep in step 11 with these advancements, and it made sense. 12 But then when I realized that this had -- 13 they had already uploaded all of our children's 14 information -- this is -- by the time we had found 15 out about this, that most of the information was 16 already being downloaded. 17 There was no hearings, there were no 18 notifications. 19 There was no nothing. 20 And when I first heard about it, you know, 21 and the more I looked into it to fact-find, and was 22 getting this information that this stuff was taking 23 place, and it had already happened, it was already a 24 done deal, I was in disbelief, I couldn't believe 25 it. 1 So at that town-hall meeting that Lisa 2 mentioned, there was a person there from the DOE 3 that actually confirmed it, for the first time, 4 after months of us, like, going on the website, 5 trying to figure out, "Is this true?" and not 6 getting any answers from the Commissioner, from the 7 Chancellor. No one in my school -- no 8 administrators, no principals, no teachers, no 9 superintendents -- no one knows about this stuff. 10 Nobody. 11 All that information they're learning about 12 it; they've learned from the information I'm sharing 13 with them, that I'm fact-finding or finding on, that 14 we, as parents, were sharing with each other. 15 And this is, can you imagine, that your 16 child's ethnic nationality, his age, characteristics 17 about his personality, and my child is a 18 special-needs child, so a lot of his school records 19 are, essentially, his medical records, which we 20 signed releases for so that, you know, we can work 21 with the nurse, we can work with the school 22 psychologist, the principal. 23 You know, there's a partnership that happens 24 here, you know, that's necessary to work with a 25 child like my son who requires a lot of services in 1 and outside of the school. 2 And, so, when I became aware that this stuff 3 has already been downloaded, and it's somewhere, and 4 I haven't been notified and there was no consent, 5 I was -- I became extremely alarmed. 6 And like I said, I just -- I want you to 7 understand that parents like me, we do understand 8 how rapidly technology is advancing in this digital 9 age, and we understand that advancing technologies 10 must play a role in our children's education. 11 But as parents, we cannot be left out of that 12 decision of anything that's going to share any 13 information about our children, and something that 14 massive. 15 I know earlier they spoke that we already 16 give information to third parties, it's already 17 stored. 18 Not like this. 19 This is something completely different. 20 This is something that I believe has birthed 21 a whole, I would say, student-profiling system 22 that's happening with this. 23 Lisa had spoke about the Medicaid 24 reimbursement. 25 This is the form. 1 We're in the same district. I don't know why 2 things are so different. 3 This is the form, and it was attached as a 4 letter on top, from the Chancellor, that asks that 5 we sign this form so that the State Department -- so 6 that the Education Department can get additional 7 funding and get reimbursed for any children who have 8 IEPs. 9 And then, on the next side, there's a 10 scannable document, here -- I don't know if you all 11 can see this -- where it gives you two choices to 12 say that you understand that the DOE is going to 13 collect my child's/share my child's 14 special-education records, and that it's going to 15 have personally identifiable information, and it's 16 for the purpose, solely, for Medicaid agencies to 17 claim reimbursements. 18 And then you have a check here where it says, 19 you can say yes; or you can say, no, I do not give 20 permission. 21 And you sign it. 22 And there's a bar code up here, I guess, 23 where they scan it, and they let you know. 24 And this is for Medicaid reimbursement. 25 So, if they're doing that for this, I don't 1 understand how HIPAA laws that protect my child 2 under any other circumstances, the information that 3 they have for medical -- Medicaid reimbursement 4 we're doing this. 5 But for something this massive, that there's 6 no notification, there's no consent; there's nothing 7 there. 8 And, you know, and I just can say this, for 9 those of you who have children, as a legal guardian, 10 it's imperative that a parent has some kind of 11 control over what's being shared about their child, 12 and to whom it's being shared with, and for what 13 purpose. 14 And it's imperative that it's me who assess 15 the risks and say, Okay, well, you know, if it's for 16 this benefit. 17 Now, this, I desperately want to see the 18 government -- I mean, the Education Department get 19 funded for this, but knowing about inBloom, I will 20 not sign this, because I won't have any control over 21 what information is being shared, and who it's being 22 shared with, and where that information that they 23 might extract from this, for the inBloom, in his 24 records, so I'm not going to sign this. 25 So, I'm another one person, you know, and I'm 1 sure Lisa has mentioned, too, as many, where 2 millions and millions of funding will be lost. 3 Okay, I'm going to wrap this up. 4 So I'm here today to ask you to please 5 consider the bill, there's an open bill right now on 6 the Senate, 5930. It's legislation to help protect 7 students' privacy and parental rights. 8 And what I'm saying is, that if this is so 9 good and it's such a great thing that we have to 10 have, then let's not loosen the regulations or any 11 restrictions on it. 12 Let's make sure that we have laws in place 13 where we're doing this smart, you know, and we're 14 not putting our children at risk, we're not creating 15 databases that's gonna have student profiles of our 16 children that tell you who's Black, who's White; who 17 lives in a single home, who doesn't; who has money, 18 who doesn't. 19 You know, who -- and what makes it so bad, is 20 that you're taking a snapshot of a child. 21 Of where my child was in kindergarten, and 22 where he's at today, it's a vast difference. 23 So, for something that happened in 24 kindergarten to follow him all the way through to 25 college is just -- it's just, I can't -- it's just 1 unimaginable to me. 2 The last thing that I want to say, you know, 3 in closing, is that, uhm, there are many ways the 4 student data can be formatted in a uniform manner to 5 make it easier for schools to operate and acquire 6 software programs to keep our schools in step with 7 technology, without allowing data mining and the 8 potential for privacy breaches that do occur. 9 We must do this in a sound legal-practice 10 way. 11 We must carefully consider the costs, the 12 overall benefits to our children, and parents must 13 have a real voice in these decisions. 14 We cannot allow children to become 15 experimental subjects without consent, and put their 16 futures a risk. 17 And, you know, I just want to say that, right 18 now, in our school -- you know, I live in Harlem. 19 I'm a Harlem parent, and I'm a single parent. 20 And in our school, we -- I'm on the PTA and 21 the SLT, we spend -- and I spend anywhere from 10, 22 to sometimes, maybe, 40 hours in my son's school, 23 and most of that time is partnering with the 24 teachers that work with him. 25 And I would say, half of that -- half of that 1 time is doing that, and then the other half is 2 raising money. 3 Raising money; we do fundraisers. 4 Just this Saturday, I worked 12 hours doing a 5 community fair to raise money, and that money is 6 money that we are using for our children to have 7 arts, to have yoga. 8 To -- for teachers, when they started this 9 year, they was given a chalk and an eraser, because 10 most of this money is being spent on testing 11 supplies. 12 So, the PTA was able to give each teacher an 13 envelope with $400 in it, for supplies. 14 We pay for cello. 15 We pay for all these kinds of things. 16 Also, last year, in the middle of the year, 17 we had got budget cuts, and 2 of the aides of 18 632 students was going to be moved during the budget 19 cuts, in the middle of the year. 20 So the PTA was able to step in and supplement 21 this -- one of the aide's salary. 22 So this is what the PTA is doing now: we're 23 supplementing these projects. 24 And to hear that they're going to spend, 25 like, $100 million on these kinds of projects, when 1 we don't even have basic supplies in schools, it is 2 just mind-boggling. 3 It really is. 4 So, again, Senator Flanagan, I thank you so 5 much, very much, and all of you, for listening to us 6 here. 7 And I know I still rambled on, but, 8 hopefully, you got something from that, to 9 understand what I'm trying to relay to you today. 10 SENATOR FLANAGAN: No, I would wish Matthew 11 good luck. 12 I have a brother named Matthew, so I have an 13 affinity for someone with that name. 14 And, I truly appreciate the kind comments 15 directed towards me, but I will tell you that this 16 is a team effort. 17 KAREN SPROWAL: I know. 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And we have colleagues who 19 bring different skill sets and attributes. 20 Senator Felder has taught me a heck of a lot 21 about New York City education. 22 He is my ambassador to the city. 23 As long as he keeps letting me come in, I'm 24 going to keep coming to visit the city. 25 KAREN SPROWAL: Yeah, he rocks. He rocks. 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: So we have -- I'm gonna -- 2 Thank you ladies very much. 3 KAREN SPROWAL: Any questions? 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I think you laid it all 5 out quite well. 6 KAREN SPROWAL: Okay. 7 SENATOR TKACZYK: I just want to say thank 8 you so much for coming today, and sharing your 9 experiences. 10 And it's obvious that you're very engaged in 11 your school, and very supportive, and, we need 12 parents to be with us, working with us. 13 KAREN SPROWAL: And they are. 14 And we don't want to be pushed out, because 15 we're here. 16 I mean, every time I hear -- I cringe when 17 I hear us referred to as "stakeholders," and we need 18 to be more engaged, because, if you go to any 19 school, you'll see a bunch of parents like me, 20 everywhere. 21 SENATOR TKACZYK: This is a partnership, and 22 we know that. 23 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Martins. 24 NANCY CAUTHEN: Thank you for listening. 25 SENATOR MARTINS: Good afternoon. 1 I just wanted to -- as the sponsor of 2 Senate 5930, I just wanted to thank you for your 3 comments because I know I now -- I now know I have 4 at least five or six more co-sponsors on that bill, 5 so, thank you. 6 [Applause.] 7 LISA SHAW: Thank you so much for that hope. 8 I mean, if it wasn't for that, I would have 9 already left public school. 10 Thank you so much. 11 SENATOR STAVISKY: I think everybody on the 12 panel is a parent, and that's the hardest struggle 13 we've ever had. 14 LISA SHAW: That should be a rule. 15 People who are making policy have public 16 schoolchildren. 17 Not charter school and not private school, 18 but, their children are being affected by all of 19 these policies: teacher evaluations, high-stakes 20 tests. 21 Thank you for listening. 22 NANCY CAUTHEN: Thank you. 23 KAREN SPROWAL: Thank you. 24 SENATOR FLANAGAN: We have to make an 25 accommodation. 1 One of our witnesses is trying to get back on 2 a plane, so next we're going to take 3 Dr. Monty Neill, and who will be joined by 4 Marco Battistella. 5 DR. MONTY NEILL, Ed.D.: Thank you. 6 I'm Monty Neill. 7 Do you want to go first? 8 MARCO BATTISTELLA: I'm the one with the 9 accent. 10 [Laughter.] 11 DR. MONTY NEILL, Ed.D.: A different accent. 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Gentlemen, again, I would 13 just respectfully offer, concise, succinct, it would 14 be extremely helpful. 15 DR. MONTY NEILL, Ed.D.: Thanks. 16 My name is Monty Neill. 17 I'm the executive director of the 18 National Center for Fair and Open Testing, known 19 more commonly as "FairTest." 20 I came down from Boston to testify because 21 I think the issues around assessment reform are 22 critical for this country. 23 You have my written testimony, but I will try 24 to be as focused as I can. 25 I also wrote out the oral testimony that I'd 1 like to deliver today. 2 I'm hoping that, largely, national evidence 3 that I have will illuminate the information you're 4 gathering from the state of New York, and will help 5 you in your thinking about the assessment system. 6 I would first note that in rapidly growing 7 numbers across the country, parents are boycotting 8 standardized testing. 9 Just last week we heard that 85 percent of 10 the parents of children in kindergarten through 11 grade 2 at Castle Bridge Elementary in 12 Washington Heights refused to allow their children 13 to be subjected to tests whose sole purpose is to 14 judge the teachers. 15 One parent called the testing "inhumane." 16 Last spring, boycotts and high school-student 17 walk-outs erupted from coast to coast, while many 18 thousands of parents and teachers have demonstrated 19 and rallied against the tests. 20 A recent poll by Phi Delta Kappa and Gallup 21 found that 41 percent of respondents said the 22 additional testing of recent years made no 23 difference in school performance, and 36 percent 24 said that it had hurt school performance. 25 Why are we seeing this public reaction? 1 First, testing has become all-consuming. 2 One New York City school pulled 5-year-olds 3 out their classrooms for test-prep tutoring. 4 Children took many tests daily; bigger tests 5 every two weeks; then quarterly tests; and then the 6 end-of-the-year tests. 7 But it's not just a New York phenomenon. 8 Chicago had 14 mandated tests for 9 kindergartners last year, and nearly as many in 10 grades 2 and 3. 11 Pittsburgh has 35 tests in grade 4, was 12 nearly as many as some other grades. 13 A major cause of the over-testing is the 14 mandate to judge every teacher in every subject 15 every year due to New York's unfortunate decision to 16 participate in Race to the Top. 17 California, recognizing that this was not 18 educationally sound and would cost far more money 19 than they would ever get from the federal 20 government, rejected that option. 21 With funding running out, the Legislature 22 should rethink it's participation in Race to the 23 Top. 24 I would also point out that no other nation 25 tests the way the United States does, testing kids 1 in every grade, and many of those nations are doing 2 certainly well, and in some regards, superior to the 3 United States on issues such as college enrollment 4 and success in college. 5 Second, the tests are being used to make 6 high-stakes decisions: students are denied 7 graduation or New York City grade promotion. 8 Extensive research shows that high-stakes 9 testing increases the dropout rate and does not 10 produce graduates who are better prepared for 11 college or careers. 12 They are linked, in recent research, to an 13 increase in incarceration. 14 Teachers lose their jobs and schools are 15 closed on the basis of test scores. 16 These are all terrible misuses of a limited 17 tool, and those actions violate the standards of the 18 measurement profession itself. 19 Again looking at other countries, we know 20 that no other country makes decisions about schools 21 or teachers on the basis of standardized tests 22 administered to children. 23 Again, we urge the Legislature to take 24 action. 25 Third, the tests are, quite simply, poor 1 quality. 2 The Pearson disaster of last spring is 3 certainly a prime example, but they will remain 4 under PARCC, not much better. 5 They will remain mostly multiple choice. 6 They do not, and will not, measure very much 7 of what our children need to know and be able to do 8 to be successful as adults. 9 And when the high stakes continue to be 10 attached, that will continue to undermine important 11 teaching and learning, because the schools will 12 continue to be pressured to narrow the curriculum 13 and teach to these tests in order to boost the 14 scores. 15 The reliance on high-stakes testing has not 16 improved student learning. 17 The national -- NCLB designates the national 18 assessment of educational progress as the primary 19 evidence as to the success of NCLB. 20 The rate of progress on NAEP has slowed or 21 ground to a halt since the NCLB took effect. 22 This slowdown has affected both reading and 23 math at all grades tested for almost every 24 demographic group. 25 NCLB, by that standard, is a failure, yet 1 Race to the Top wants to simply build on it. 2 The Common Core, PARCC, tests are not gonna 3 solve the problems of testing. 4 They will remain too long and developmentally 5 inappropriate for young children. 6 They will not adequately address the higher 7 order of thinking skills that our children need. 8 The limited inclusion of performance tasks 9 will not overcome the pressure to focus on rote 10 learning to prepare for the primary multiple-choice 11 and short-answer questions. 12 Because they, too, will be continued to be 13 high stakes, we will see all the harmful 14 consequences that we have seen under testing. 15 I'll jump some parts that are covered well 16 here. 17 I want it to switch to say that the goal of 18 public education should be to help all children 19 develop their talents so they can contribute to our 20 nation's social well-being and progress. 21 The main purpose of student assessment should 22 be to help students actually improve their learning. 23 That means, first of all, useful feedback to 24 students, but, also, accurate and rich information 25 to guide policymakers like yourselves and the public 1 toward making good decisions. 2 New York has the best example of an 3 assessment system that strengthens student learning, 4 produces greatly improved outcomes, and provides 5 solid evidence to the public. 6 The New York Performance Standards Consortium 7 includes 39 schools, most of them in New York City. 8 To graduate, students do have to pass the 9 Regents language-arts exam, but they don't have to 10 take any of the other Regents exams; instead, they 11 produce performance tasks in language arts, math, 12 science, and history. 13 The tasks are judged by committees that 14 include outside experts, and students must carefully 15 defend -- orally defend their projects before 16 committees. 17 Consortium schools use a common scoring 18 guide, and samples are rescored independently to 19 ensure consistency across these schools. 20 The schools are demographically comparable to 21 the New York City student body; however, their 22 graduation rates are nearly double the city average 23 for English-language learners, and 50 percent higher 24 for students with disabilities. They're also higher 25 for African-American and Latino students. 1 Their graduates enroll in 4-year college -- 2 enroll in college at significantly higher rates, 3 both 2- and 4-year colleges. 4 90 percent of these graduates who were in 5 4-year colleges are still enrolled in year three, 6 while the U.S. average is 80 percent, and that 7 includes all the wealthy and middle-class kids. 8 The consortium is a huge success. 9 I'm not arguing it's the only way to improve 10 assessment or the kinds of high-quality teaching and 11 learning that need to be built around it; rather, 12 it's an example and a model. 13 The United States has gone down a road that 14 leads, bluntly, over an educational cliff. 15 The State of New York has to figure whether 16 it's going to stay on that road or make fundamental 17 changes. 18 That model coming out of the consortium says 19 there are better ways to do it, and the State could 20 begin to move in that direction. 21 So, in addition to encouraging the 22 Legislature to step back and, not just worry about 23 the tinkering and implementation of what's a bad 24 idea, but to look very seriously at much more 25 profound alternatives. 1 I would point out that the state of Nebraska 2 was well on that way before, essentially, the 3 Department of Ed pulled the plug on a very different 4 system that was showing great success in Nebraska. 5 The U.S. Department of Ed, obviously. 6 A few other brief recommendations -- 7 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Doctor, I need -- you need 8 to wrap up. 9 DR. MONTY NEILL, Ed.D.: Yes. 10 Massachusetts does not attach any weight of 11 student test scores to teacher evaluation. 12 New York should do the same. 13 You should tell the districts they don't have 14 to use any standardized testing in judging their 15 students. 16 You can do that if you want. 17 You need to build alliances with other states 18 to fight back against the overreach of the 19 U.S. Department of Education. 20 You need to pass a law like California's that 21 will give parents the right to opt out of state 22 tests. 23 There are bills pending now in the 24 Legislature regarding Truth In Testing, the costs of 25 assessment, as well as the one that's been mentioned 1 about the testing of young children. 2 All of those should pass this year. 3 Thank you. 4 [Applause.] 5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I'm just going to say 6 Marco, because I think that's easier. 7 MARCO BATTISTELLA: Thank you. 8 I also refer to myself as Marco. 9 First of all, I would like to thank you for 10 this opportunity, and I would like to thank you, all 11 the other parents and people that have shown up at 12 this place, and from which I was able to learn, so 13 far, many interesting things. 14 So my name is Marco Battistella. 15 That's the way I pronounce it. 16 And, you have -- I have been active in public 17 education since, back in Italy, I was in the school, 18 in my high school, as a school representative. 19 And today I'm here, thanks to Time Out From 20 Testing, that allows me to come here and talk about 21 the domain and represent it. 22 We have been hearing parents around the 23 states being concerned about the turn that education 24 have taken. 25 And Monty has very well explained many of the 1 points of why tests, the way they're used in a 2 high-stakes manner, are not conductive for better 3 education. 4 We see teachers that feel with a sword on top 5 of their head, having to administrator tests, and 6 having to make choices of what a child should learn, 7 and what a child should not learn, based on whether 8 those children will pass the test, or not. 9 Ironically, for a teacher, it may be more 10 useful to not teach stuff to children that will not 11 pass the test anyway, and focus on those that will, 12 somehow, with some help, be able to pass it. 13 And this is not what we want education to be. 14 Even more, it becomes even more important, 15 when we see that we are now trying to push these 16 tests to K-to-2 children. 17 I have a child, a 6-year-old kid, and a 18 10-year-old kid, and I can tell you, kids, 19 particularly 5-, 6-, 7-year-old, do not all learn at 20 the same pace. 21 In my kids' class, there are children that 22 are already very good in math, well above the 23 Common Core curriculum, and children that are well 24 below that, and they all are very bright kids. 25 It's not that they're not -- they just are 1 learning and teaching in very different -- and 2 learning and presenting their skills in very 3 different ways. 4 So what I see is that, right now, the 5 curriculum is becoming tests, rather than the tests 6 measuring curriculum, and, this is very disruptive 7 for the potential of our kids. 8 We want our kids - we wanted -- these kids 9 are going to be the future of our -- the future 10 generations. 11 We want them to be rich. 12 We want them to be, going with their mind in 13 all possible ways, having explore every possible way 14 to learn; not just a few predetermined things that 15 can be tested, or that these tests are willing to 16 test. 17 And, we want curriculums to be 18 developmentally appropriate, and we want the teacher 19 to have the power to make decisions. 20 If a teacher see that a child is not at the 21 same pace that the Common Core Standard require, or 22 that the tests require, the teacher need to have the 23 power to say, I will focus on this child with 24 different method, and I will focus on the child 25 based on whatever the child's strengths are. 1 Right now, because tests are linked to 2 their -- to the professional assessment of teachers, 3 they are forced to narrow down the level of the kind 4 of education. 5 And the same, of course, come, from a 6 principal perspective, they need to pressure the 7 teachers to do the same, because then the school 8 will be measured with the same type of measures. 9 There are actually very good schools in 10 New York City, and there are a number of schools, 11 that in spite of all the pressures, have focused on 12 really giving a good education to all childrens. 13 The school my children go in is an amazing 14 school. They do not focus on tests, and they do 15 give me assessments. 16 They do not give me grades. 17 They never have grades. 18 Every year, for three times during the year, 19 not just two like most schools, they give me 20 narrative assessment, where I can really see the 21 teacher really knows my kids, and they can really 22 see that the teacher has worked hard in determining 23 what their strengths are, and determining what their 24 area of need of developments are, and the teacher 25 can really tell me what I can do to help them. 1 Now, this teacher, in some way, are going 2 against their mandate. 3 In some ways, they're doing what they're told 4 not to do. 5 They are forgetting about what their 6 professional -- what their professional assessment 7 will be, and saying, No, I feel that these children 8 need, this. I feel that in order to help these 9 children, this is what I need to do. 10 And that's what they're doing. 11 But these teachers in these schools are in 12 danger, and other schools, also, are definitely not 13 encouraged from attempting to do things in this 14 direction. 15 Even more, like I said before, even more 16 danger, even more important, is to see how negative 17 effectly [sic] -- with the negative effects that 18 focusing on K-through-2 tests, that's great -- does 19 greater damage than even I have tests, even though 20 all of them are in, some way, problematic. 21 Now, what do we do about it? 22 And first of all, let me stress, I do think 23 testing -- I do think assessment is important. 24 I do not think that they should not be -- the 25 children should not be assessed. 1 But I do think that assessment should be for 2 the teacher, and should be for the school, and not 3 for a greater assessment of what the school is 4 doing. 5 There is a bill at the Senate that is about 6 to be passed -- or is about to be discussed, 7 I guess. 8 It's Bill 4764 of 2013. 9 It's a very simple bill, in the way 10 I understand it. 11 It basically mandates that all the assessment 12 will be needed for -- would be used for is to assess 13 students for K to 2. 14 It doesn't -- so what it says is, basically, 15 do not use assessment for anything else than what 16 they're meant to be, which is, for the teacher to 17 know at which point the child is in his development, 18 and for the teacher to be able to inform the parents 19 where, at which point, their child is in 20 development. 21 So I plead to all of you to support this 22 bill, and to come up with more bills that go in the 23 same direction, and to move things in this 24 direction. 25 Thank you. 1 [Applause.] 2 SENATOR FLANAGAN: You're welcome. 3 Marco, I would just make one comment, and 4 sometimes I think this gets lost a little bit, and 5 people have been appreciative of the hearings, but, 6 if you look at what we were focusing on, it's 7 Common Core testing and privacy. 8 And this is really applicable to everybody. 9 One of the things that's helpful to us is the 10 input, when we are looking at legislation, because, 11 there -- you know, you can ask any one of us, 12 "How do you feel about student privacy?" everyone's 13 gonna tell you, you think it's very important as a 14 parent, and otherwise. 15 The devil is in the details. 16 So when we look at legislation, one of the 17 upshots of doing things like this, is we get proper 18 input. 19 And if there are ways we can help make things 20 better, obviously, we want to do that. 21 So, gentlemen, thank you very much. 22 Doctor, have a safe trip. 23 DR. MONTY NEILL, Ed.D.: Thank you very much. 24 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay, next we have 25 Deborah Rayow, Nathalie Elivert, and Tenicka Boyd. 1 How did I do on the names? 2 DEBORAH RAYOW: Pretty close. 3 NATHALIE ELIVERT: Mine is Nathalie. 4 The H is deceiving. 5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Nathalie, nice to see you. 6 DEBORAH RAYOW: Hello. 7 My name is Deb Rayow. 8 I'm a former fifth-grade teacher, and I've 9 been a staff developer and a curriculum developer in 10 both the public sector and the private sector since 11 leaving the classroom about 15 years ago. 12 My current role is vice president of 13 core curriculum and credit recovery at Edgenuity. 14 Edgenuity is a national education company. 15 Our offices are down the street, so we're 16 based in New York City. 17 We partner with school districts throughout 18 the state of New York and the country to help them 19 implement online courses aligned to state standards, 20 including the Common Core. 21 We provide curriculum and professional 22 development, as well as data management, to help 23 schools and teachers meet a variety of needs. 24 And thank you for allowing me to speak here 25 today. 1 Common Core, it's more than just another set 2 of standards. 3 It's a change in emphasis. 4 It's a change in what we value, and how we 5 design curriculum to reflect those values. 6 Many people are describing those changes as 7 instructional shifts. 8 Shifting instruction to this degree is hard. 9 It asks a lot of our teachers who already 10 have a lot on their plates, and it asks a lot of 11 students, some of whom are struggling to keep up 12 with even more basic standards. 13 So, is it worth doing? 14 Well, let's look at what Common Core is 15 actually asking us to do. 16 In writing, we're asking teachers to spend 17 more time helping students understand and craft 18 strong arguments. 19 This matters, as you, I'm sure, can see here 20 today. 21 No matter what our students do with their 22 lives, we want them to understand the tools of 23 argument, to wield those tools effectively, and to 24 be critical listeners when other people make 25 arguments that affect their lives, because that is 1 where power lies. 2 And part of our responsibility as educators 3 is to give students the tools to become powerful 4 adults, in control of their own lives, and not at 5 the mercy of people who know things that they don't. 6 And that's not what we want just for kids who 7 are college-bound, that's what we want for all of 8 our kids. 9 In math, the recommendations of Common Core 10 come from best practices in nations that are 11 consistently outperforming us in mathematics, which 12 is a lot of nations. 13 Of course, our goal is not just to produce 14 students who do well on international tests, but 15 those tests measure something important. 16 A sample item from the PISA, for example, 17 asks students to design a new set of coins, and it 18 gives students three constraints: 19 One: Coin diameters must be between 15 and 20 45 millimeters; 21 Two: Each coin diameter must be a whole 22 number of millimeters; 23 And, three: The diameter of each coin must 24 be at least 30 percent larger than the next smallest 25 coin. 1 And that's it. 2 No multiple-choice answers, no formulas; just 3 a task, and these constraints. 4 And this is the kind of math we face in the 5 real world. 6 Making sense of data that might be a little 7 messy, like poll data, like consumer-confidence 8 data, like scientific measurements that might have a 9 degree of error. 10 And the more our students understand about 11 how to model their role mathematically, the more 12 options are available to them, the more life choices 13 they have. 14 As a business leader here in New York City, 15 I can tell you that these are the kinds of skills 16 that I want my employees to come in with, that 17 I value in high school graduates. 18 "So how do we do it?" that's the question. 19 We're currently trying to do it by creating 20 many, many detailed curriculum modules and posting 21 them online, and training teachers how to deliver 22 them. 23 And I don't argue that this won't work. 24 For some teachers, for some students, it 25 works great, but it does not work for everyone. 1 And the more variance in student ability 2 within a district or a school, the more challenging 3 it is to make it work. 4 Online learning changes this game, and 5 instead of telling you how it can, I would like to 6 tell you how it does. 7 Earlier this month, I visited a middle school 8 in Georgia that's implementing blended learning 9 school-wide to meet the challenges of Common Core. 10 And what this means is, that every day, 11 students spend half of their time online, working 12 independently, and half of their time with teachers 13 and peers face-to-face. 14 And these students are at all different 15 ability levels. 16 Students who move more quickly are able to 17 accelerate at their own pace. 18 I met a student who is in eighth grade, who's 19 already tackling high school geometry. 20 And I also met a seventh-grader who told me 21 that ELA is just not her strongest subject, but when 22 she reads in her online course, she can use 23 text-to-speech tools to hear challenging text read 24 aloud, she can look up words in her online 25 dictionary. 1 And every assignment has text and audio 2 commentary from her teachers, so as she's reading, 3 she can get help with what she doesn't understand. 4 With video instruction she can pause, she can 5 rewind, she can hear challenging material explained 6 again. 7 And if she needs to see a transcript, because 8 that's how she learns better, she can do that, too. 9 And while listening to the kids tell their 10 stories is inspiring, listening to the teachers is 11 even more so. 12 These teachers are getting data every single 13 day when their children come into class. 14 We're talking a lot today about tests and 15 data, and what we know about kids and how we know 16 it. 17 And these teachers are not relying on an 18 end-of-the-year test, or even interim benchmarks. 19 They're getting real data every single day 20 about what students know, and what they don't know, 21 and they're making very smart grouping decisions 22 based on that data, and those groups change every 23 day. 24 There is this perception in the teaching 25 community that online courses somehow seek to 1 replace teachers. 2 Nothing could be further from the truth. 3 The teachers that we work with every day 4 report that they are having a much easier time 5 meeting the challenges of Common Core, with the 6 ability to differentiate using these tools. 7 Schools like this are investing in technology 8 to meet challenges and to change the game. 9 There are teachers, and their students, are 10 mastering Common Core, they are feeling successful. 11 Technology is allowing students to excel and 12 to move ahead in ways that are almost impossible in 13 traditional classrooms, and at the same time, it's 14 also allowing students who need additional help to 15 get it. 16 Traditional classrooms hold the variable of 17 time constant. Every class period is 42 minutes 18 long. 19 It's the learning that varies. 20 Some students learn a lot in those 21 42 minutes, and some students don't. 22 With online learning, we are holding learning 23 constant, at least a basic mastery of that learning. 24 It's the time that varies. 25 Students who need more time are getting it, 1 and students who can move more quickly can do that, 2 too. 3 And if we truly believe that this new set of 4 standards is essential for New York students to 5 become college- and career-ready, then we owe 6 students the time that they need to master them. 7 We're very excited to be a part of these 8 kinds of changes here in New York. 9 They are happening more quickly in some 10 states than others. 11 We do believe the time for New York is now. 12 And we are very glad to have been here today. 13 Thank you so much. 14 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you. 15 TENICKA BOYD: I'm going to skip Nathalie, 16 I already told her. 17 She's my colleague and friend, so, I hope she 18 doesn't mind. 19 I thank you, obviously, Chairman Flanagan, 20 and thank you to the Committee as well. 21 My name is Tenicka Boyd. 22 I have the pleasure of directing the parent 23 organizing effort at StudentsFirstNY. 24 I'm also a New York City public-school 25 parent. 1 StudentsFirst is New York's leading voice for 2 students and parents who are really looking to 3 increase the quality of teaching that's happening in 4 their communities. 5 And over the past year, StudentsFirstNY, as 6 part of our organizing work, we really had the 7 opportunity to outreach, have one-on-ones and 8 face-to-face conversations with over 9 300,000 New Yorkers in predominantly low-income 10 communities and communities of color. 11 So, I'm obviously not here as an expert. 12 I'm here as someone who organizes parents, 13 and someone who is a New York City public-school 14 parent. 15 And I just want to say that, I, and many of 16 the parents that I speak to, some of whom were 17 outside today, they came in from Canarsie, they came 18 in from Jamaica, Queens, they came in from 19 East New York, and Brownsville, and stood outside to 20 really voice, wholeheartedly, their support for 21 Commissioner John King, and what the Board of 22 Regents is doing, and their reform agenda, because 23 what we're really doing for many communities that 24 I serve, and have the pleasure of working with, 25 they're putting forth policies that are interested 1 in eliminating the educational equity gap. They're 2 interested, really, in taking on this charge that 3 President Obama set forth in adopting these very 4 basic standards for kids all across the country. 5 And I think it's just very, very important. 6 When I talk to many of our parents, what I'm 7 finding out is that, most of our parents didn't 8 realize that students in eighth grade in Brownsville 9 were not learning what the kids in Tribeca were 10 learning, or, that the kids on the Upper West Side 11 were learning at a faster pace than the kids in 12 Canarsie. 13 And for decades it's kind of been like this 14 across our country, not just in New York; this idea 15 that students are getting more materials, they're 16 learning at a faster rate, with, you know, varying 17 degrees of assessment. 18 And how can I, as a New York City 19 public-school parent, expect that my own child can 20 compete at an academically rigorous college? 21 Because that's the expectation that I have 22 for my child, and many parents, who are poor, have 23 for their children. 24 How can I expect that of my child when the 25 kids in Beverly Hills are getting more than what my 1 child is learning in Brooklyn? 2 So I wholeheartedly support Common Core. 3 I think it is amazing what is happening in 4 this country, and in New York. 5 And I wholeheartedly support the assessment 6 that goes along with Common Core. 7 I believe in holding teachers accountable. 8 There is a small choir, and I think many of 9 them gathered here today, that say they do support 10 Common Core, and I'm happy that we're all on one 11 accord, but they -- you know, that we just need to 12 slow down the process. 13 That we just need to slow down. 14 You know, we need a moratorium on this, we 15 need a moratorium on that, we need a moratorium, 16 moratorium... 17 And I'm just really not interested in having 18 a moratorium on, you know, academic success. 19 I would like a moratorium on academic 20 failure. 21 I think, for far too long, we've kind of 22 sanctioned this idea that academic failure is okay, 23 and, somehow, if we take the assessments away, then 24 we won't -- you know, there's no way that our 25 children will be failing. 1 They will still continue to fail if we do not 2 have these assessments related to Common Core. 3 I want to know how my child is doing. 4 Right? 5 And I'm trying to compose myself, because 6 I was really, really shocked at this idea that we're 7 not in a crisis. 8 "That this is not a crisis," I keep hearing 9 this language over and over again. 10 But it is a crisis. 11 It's a crisis in Jamaica, Queens. 12 It is a crisis in Bedford-Stuyvesant. 13 It is a crisis in East New York. 14 It absolutely is a crisis, and we need higher 15 standards. 16 Our students deserve higher standards, and 17 not just, Oh, those lucky ones; the ones who get to 18 live in the ZIP code and zone to the great school, 19 but all our students across New York City, and 20 across the state. 21 And I -- you know, I said this before, but 22 I'll say it again, that it's not just about 23 Common Core. 24 Right? 25 It's also about the assessments attached to 1 that. 2 And I believe that the assessments, and the 3 accountability that comes with that, is very 4 important. 5 And I really believe that we should continue 6 to hold our teachers accountable for how our 7 students are doing. 8 In a city with so many schools that are 9 failing, we need leaders, like you guys, and all 10 across our city just alone, and across our state, to 11 really hold everyone accountable for these 12 assessments. 13 I'm a parent, and I hear lots of people are 14 saying, they, too, are parents. 15 And I think we all share this idea that when 16 we send our child to school every day, that they be 17 met with an amazing high-quality teacher. 18 I have the luxury of talking to parents every 19 day. It's my job, it's what I get to -- it's what 20 I get to do. 21 And I have that expectation for every 22 New York City child, regardless of where they live. 23 I don't want to go around and think, because 24 a child is from south Bronx and they're poor, like 25 I was, or, they grew up in the projects, like I did, 1 that somehow, some way, they don't get a chance and 2 an opportunity to hit these benchmarks and meet 3 these standards. 4 I think the new benchmarks in Common Core, 5 it's not just about a test. 6 It's not just about telling teachers what 7 they can and cannot teach. 8 It's about mapping out a rigid curriculum. 9 It's something that many of our students 10 need, and many of our parents welcome. 11 As parents, I think we all, regardless of our 12 ZIP code, our skin color, our earning potential, 13 want to ensure that all our students, all of our 14 children, really possess those twenty-first-century 15 skills. 16 And for far too long, I think, with the 17 rhetoric, the back and forth, the moratorium this, 18 the moratorium that, it's just sanctioning academic 19 failure, and I, frankly, just am not interested in 20 that. 21 And we do that out of fear of stepping on 22 somebody's toes, the status quo. You know, "I don't 23 want to change." 24 It's kind of this idea that they're talking 25 about in Washington right now: Too fast. Let's 1 slow down. Let's figure out a way. It's coming 2 down the pipe. I don't want to do it. 3 Our children deserve better. 4 At the end of the day, our children deserve 5 better. 6 Our parents deserve to know how well or how 7 not great their children are doing based on these 8 assessments. 9 And as I close, I'm reminded of just, last 10 week, Friday, I was standing on the corner of 11 Nostrom and Atlantic in Bedford-Stuyvesant, on the 12 corner between Bed-Stuy and Crown Heights, and I was 13 waiting for the motorcade of President Obama to roll 14 through, and I remember watching what he said at 15 P-TECH when asked about Common Core. 16 He said, "Keep at it." 17 So I would encourage all of us to keep at it, 18 and not just keep at Common Core, but let's keep at 19 all that comes along with raising the standards for 20 our children. 21 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Wow, Nathalie, now I know 22 why Tenicka went first. You're very shy. 23 [Laughter.] 24 NATHALIE ELIVERT: Thank you, 25 Chairman Flanagan, and thank you to the Committee, 1 for giving me the opportunity to speak today. 2 My name is Nathalie Elivert, and, I'm the 3 director of educator outreach for StudentsFirstNY. 4 I speak with educators regularly about how 5 they feel about reforms, such as Common Core. 6 And I myself was a New York City public 7 schoolteacher for the last six years. 8 I left the classroom this summer to advocate 9 for greater changes that I think will benefit my 10 students. 11 I'm here today in support of the Regents 12 Reform Agenda. 13 I thought, as a teacher, that the bar was set 14 too low for my students under the old New York State 15 standards. 16 As a result, I felt that the old standards 17 deprived my students, and, ultimately, a larger body 18 of students, of access to futures of their choice, 19 particularly in environments where a 20 college-preparation education is the principal means 21 for gaining upward mobility. 22 So, in my estimation, it is our job, 23 actually, as educators, at a minimum, to graduate 24 students with enough preparation to pursue a higher 25 education if they choose to do so. 1 The old standards were also ineffective. 2 As a tool, if you wanted to design curriculum 3 as a teacher, that would be designed to work 4 backwards from a college-readiness standard. 5 The old standards were standards that gave 6 minimal direction to teachers. 7 But I strongly believe that there are a body 8 of educators, who are highly effective educators, 9 who are open to development and to lifelong 10 learning, and, are hearing the call to action and 11 embracing the new standards. 12 I believe those teachers to be the rule and 13 not the exception. 14 And I think we need to be really careful at 15 this time about the message that we're sending our 16 children. 17 Okay? 18 We need to show our children that we do 19 believe in them, that they can meet these new 20 standards, and that the adults are the ones who will 21 accept the responsibility for helping them to attain 22 their full potential. 23 So for these reasons, I wanted to make sure 24 that my voice as an educator was heard today. 25 And, I support the Regents Reform Agenda, 1 I support the implementation of the Common Core 2 Standards, the tests aligned to them, and the stakes 3 attached to those tests. 4 Thank you. 5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Very helpful, very well 6 done. 7 Appreciate your comments. 8 All right, I have to do a little bit more 9 juggling. 10 Mr. Logan. 11 Leonie, you're next. 12 ERNEST LOGAN: Good afternoon, sir. 13 Good afternoon, Senator, and thank you. 14 I'm Ernest Logan, president of the Council of 15 School Supervisors and Administrators, Local 1, 16 representing principals, assistant principals, and 17 supervisors of New York City. 18 With me is my executive vice president, 19 Mark Cannizzaro. 20 We're here today because, first, let me just 21 thank you for having this hearing to talk about 22 where we are with the reform agenda, and let me 23 start off by saying that, historically, we've always 24 been about having standards, and we like the idea of 25 the Common Core. 1 Now, that's strange; people say, "Why?" 2 Well, we realize as educators who are 3 responsible for educating huge numbers of students 4 across many, many buildings, there needs to be a set 5 of standards that people can look at. 6 The issue that we've had, is that we found 7 that as we pushed this out, that we didn't bring all 8 the stakeholders together to figure out how we're 9 going to do this; so, we've had some missteps, we've 10 had miscommunication. 11 We have, basically, angered the parents who 12 we need as our partners to make this work. 13 And then that's falling on the schools to try 14 to then clean up what the policymakers above us have 15 decided to do. 16 So many of my members spend time trying to 17 explain to parents that we're not here to hurt your 18 children; we're just trying to come up way to truly 19 educate them and have them college- and 20 career-ready. 21 The problem is that no one is absolutely sure 22 what the definition of, is "college- and 23 career-ready." 24 That's number one. 25 And when people tell you they want to be 1 college- and career-ready, and you ask one group, 2 they say one thing; one group says something else. 3 75 -- a passing of 75 cents on -- 75 percent 4 on the New York State Regents, when you talk to 5 industry people, that's a nice idea, but, they're 6 looking for somebody who can come into the 7 workforce, follow instructions, read the manual, and 8 do the work, complete the task. 9 So we know you've had a long day here. 10 I just want to bring out a couple of things 11 that we're concerned about. 12 Testing: 13 We see this overreliance on testing, because 14 what is happening is that we're not testing for the 15 purposes of helping students. 16 And the question we have is: How much 17 testing is needed to evaluate what -- who is a good 18 teacher, who's a good school building leader? 19 So the question becomes: 20 Why are we testing? 21 And is it appropriate to have some tests for 22 some students? 23 And is there a way that we can eliminate some 24 of the testing that we're doing? 25 Now, the Regents this past week came up with 1 the idea, that, okay, we don't have to do some 2 things, but people believe that, once they see it, 3 they think that's what they're supposed to do, not 4 just that's the minimum. They just keep adding on. 5 So now the Regents have said that some of 6 these tests are not required, so now we're gonna cut 7 back on some of the testing that we're doing, but 8 the issue becomes, again, why are we testing? 9 Are we testing children to get at adults, or 10 are we testing children so we can assess where they 11 are so we can help improve instruction? 12 And that's a little one we look at. 13 As you are well aware, in New York City, our 14 schools leaders have always had an accountability 15 based on student achievement. We've had it since -- 16 for, now, over the 15 years, our members are rated 17 on how well their students do. 18 But the question that we've always had is, 19 this accountability fall on schools, principals, 20 teachers, and now children, and no one is holding 21 superintendents accountable for how their schools 22 do. 23 And I've heard all the reasons for it. 24 They say, Well, the school boards hire 25 superintendents, and they have a contract, and they 1 have their own evaluation system. 2 But, historically, throughout the state, as 3 well as in New York City, superintendents that have 4 schools that have not done well, and they've closed 5 schools, they've removed principals, they've removed 6 teachers, but superintendents continue to roll all 7 along, and no one questions what they've done in 8 support of those schools, the success or failures of 9 those schools. 10 One last piece I want to talk about is 11 student privacy. 12 I'm a member -- a board member of Alliance -- 13 Research Alliance for New York City Schools. 14 We are involved constantly with student data, 15 and we protect it. 16 And all I ask this Committee to do is to 17 realize that one of the angsts that parents have in 18 this world today, is that everyone is worried about 19 where their data is going. 20 And unless we have the real, real serious 21 checks and balances, we're going to have a problem, 22 going forward, because when we use a contractor to 23 do something and we're not watching them constantly, 24 there's no guarantee that that student data will be 25 protected. 1 At the Research Alliance, our researchers use 2 student data, but there are many checks and balances 3 so that the student information, private 4 information, is not part of the research, and that's 5 a critical piece for us. 6 I don't know if Mark wants to add anything. 7 He was instrumental in doing the APPR with us 8 and dealing with Common Core throughout the state. 9 MARK CANNIZZARO: Thank you, and thank you 10 for this opportunity, Senator. 11 The -- I think Ernest covered it all pretty 12 well. 13 The two things I would like to add is, 14 I would really appreciate if some people would be 15 able to take a look at the ground level and how the 16 amount of testing is affecting the everyday life 17 inside of schools. 18 I've heard a lot of discussion about how 19 there's not that much more testing. 20 There is a tremendous amount more testing 21 going on this year than there has been in the past. 22 And in addition to the amount of testing, 23 it's the time out for grading the tests, it's the 24 time out at the end of the year that's going to be 25 required for the local assessments, for people other 1 than the classroom teacher to grade the tests, so, 2 there's going to have to be some real programming 3 issues and things going on, also. 4 I heard someone outside speak about the joy 5 inside schools doesn't seem like what it used to be; 6 and I even heard Mr. Suransky say that we have to 7 turn down the heat a little bit. 8 And that's absolutely true, but we're at a 9 point where school leaders and teachers do not know 10 how to do that because they're being overwhelmed 11 with compliance issues around testing. 12 And, finally, I just would urge the 13 Education Panel to support an independent evaluation 14 of the APPR. 15 We can say everything, and sit here and 16 advocate for our members and tell you things, and it 17 may sound as if it's coming from a group with an 18 agenda. 19 We really would love to see an independent 20 evaluation of the amount of time and resources being 21 taken, and whether or not that much time is 22 necessary in order to effectively evaluate school 23 leaders, teachers, and to effectively assess 24 children. 25 I think you'll find that we can do it a lot 1 cleaner, a lot neater, and a lot easier, and still 2 come out with the same results. 3 Thank you very much. 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Ernest, I just have one 5 question. 6 I always listen to you very carefully. 7 If you could -- within reason, your 8 organization could make one change. 9 ERNEST LOGAN: One change? 10 On the Common Core, or this -- 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Well, look at what we're 12 talking about in terms of the agenda. 13 Now, I know you -- Mark just talked about an 14 independent evaluation. 15 You alluded to the superintendent issue. 16 ERNEST LOGAN: I think if we could make one 17 change, I think the first thing I would say is that 18 everybody has to be equal into this work. 19 And right now, it's falling on parents, 20 students, teachers, and administrators of buildings. 21 The district doesn't buy into this, through 22 their superintendent. 23 It is critical that all stakeholders are held 24 accountable for what happens in schools. 25 So even though the State -- last year, the 1 State put more money into education than we've ever 2 had, and you've heard that. I know everybody has 3 said that today. 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I've heard that twice 5 today. I'm very happy to hear that. 6 MARK CANNIZZARO: You heard it, okay. 7 But let me ask you something: Have we got 8 the best return on our investment? 9 Because the question becomes, what do we do 10 with the resources that you provided to us? 11 Did it go right to the classroom where it was 12 really affecting learning, or did we use it for 13 these contractors who are doing other things? 14 That's the question. 15 And so now that you've -- we -- you know, 16 I came up and lobbied for additional money and, you 17 know, pushed for it. 18 But after the money came down, what the 19 districts did with the money had nothing to do with 20 what we really thought needed to be done. 21 So, everyone was not at the table discussing 22 that. 23 If I had one thing, I would say every time a 24 dime is sent on education in this state, that all 25 the stakeholders have an opportunity to discuss 1 what's best for it, and then there's an evaluation 2 of how that money was used. 3 And that's a critical piece. 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you. 5 SENATOR LITTLE: Thank you. 6 One of the things you mentioned are the -- 7 the time element that goes into this. 8 Some of the schools I represent are really 9 small, like, maybe, 90 from pre-K to 12, the entire 10 school. 11 But, nevertheless, the expense that we are 12 finding in the testing, the substitute teachers. 13 If you don't have a lot of teachers and 14 someone's testing, you know, other schools' tests, 15 and all this stuff, it really gets ridiculous. 16 And I think that's something that we have to 17 look at, as to the value of the money being spent, 18 is it, you know, are we getting our money's worth 19 out of all this with the expense? 20 MARK CANNIZZARO: That's correct. 21 And, you know, Senator, I do represent -- I'm 22 the treasurer of the American Family of School 23 Administrators, representing school administrators 24 around the country, and many have them have looked 25 at the cost-effectiveness of being involved in 1 Race to the Top; what they were going to get out of 2 the work, and how much it has cost them to implement 3 it. 4 And now we're starting to look back and 5 saying, Well, should we have taken the money, 6 because did we really get what we needed to get out 7 of taking that money? 8 And, yeah, we may have been a little bit more 9 in the hole, but maybe we could have done some 10 interesting things to really redistribute the funds 11 that we do have, and how we utilized them. 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Oh, I'm sorry. 13 Senator Tkaczyk. 14 SENATOR TKACZYK: You represent school 15 districts throughout the state; correct? 16 MARK CANNIZZARO: Well, I -- no, we 17 represent -- I represent New York City. 18 SENATOR TKACZYK: Okay. 19 But given your experience, you're in the 20 school districts, you're in leadership positions: 21 Not all school is the same; not all 22 challenges are the same. 23 So when we put these one-size-fits-all types 24 of assessments in place, that's got to shift your 25 resources as school administrators. 1 I mean, has -- how do you get your input into 2 what does each school need to help children reach 3 their fullest potential? 4 Because I think that's really the goal. 5 And maybe that's going to college, maybe 6 that's being prepared for a career, maybe that's 7 something else. 8 But, each child has the right to reach their 9 fullest potential, and it may mean different things 10 to different schools. 11 And where do you give us that type of 12 information about how that -- what you're seeing in 13 the school, and what those resources are, and what 14 we need to help those kids in that school? 15 Where does -- how does that get fed up to us 16 in the Legislature and the State Education 17 Department? 18 MARK CANNIZZARO: I think the critical piece 19 is something just like this. 20 Parents are very passionate today. 21 You're hearing from parents. 22 You heard the angst about testing, but you 23 also heard them talk about what they want for their 24 children. 25 From educators, you're always gonna hear us 1 talk about how we want children to be successful. 2 I prided myself on being sort of a bridge 3 between the business community and my members, 4 because we realize that one of things we weren't 5 doing was linking with the business community. 6 So we were nodding our heads, yes, we had 7 high graduation rates, but people couldn't get a 8 job, couldn't maintain a job. They couldn't do well 9 in college. 10 So something like this is critical. 11 I think we need to have more of this 12 dialogue, and we need to start listening to each 13 other. 14 And as much as I've disagreed some with what 15 the DOE has done and what the mayor has done, some 16 things we really worked extremely well together. 17 When we sit and we're talking to each other, 18 and not yelling at each other, we find that we have 19 really reached the point that we can bring that 20 information together to the folks. 21 And I think that's what happened last year 22 when we went up to the Legislature and said, Look, 23 we needed money. 24 The problem was, after we got it, everybody 25 then disagreed on how it should be spent. 1 We agreed to come up and ask for it, but then 2 when we got it back, no one was at the table. 3 We didn't bring the parents to the table, we 4 didn't bring the teachers to the table, we didn't 5 bring the administrators to the table, and we didn't 6 bring the superintendents to the table. 7 And, then, so instead of us really talking 8 about it, that money went right out the zone. 9 So the only way you're going to be able to 10 have this conversation is if we're all open to 11 having it. 12 Thank you. 13 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you very much. 14 MARK CANNIZZARO: Thank you for allowing us. 15 [Applause.] 16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Next two are 17 Leone Haimson -- 18 LEONIE HAIMSON: Haimson. 19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: -- Haimson, and 20 Zakiyah Ansari. 21 ZAKIYAH ANSARI: 22 Okay, Zakiyah. 23 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay, Zakiyah. 24 I'm trying, I'm trying. 25 LEONIE HAIMSON: Should I start? 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I do know this, even if 2 I say it wrong, I have met her in Albany, and I've 3 heard her speak before. 4 So, shy she is not, that I know. 5 LEONIE HAIMSON: No, and I'm not shy, either. 6 Thank you so much, Senator Flanagan, and the 7 other members of the Committee. 8 I want to start by especially thanking 9 Senator Martins, in case I run out of time, for his 10 bill, 5930, which would protect student privacy and 11 give parents the right to consent. 12 It's been long -- it's actually been only a 13 year now, where we've been trying to get the word 14 out about inBloom. 15 And when we held a press conference about 16 this one year ago this month, and asked the 17 State Education Department to hold hearings on their 18 plans, they came back to us and said there was no 19 need. This was public knowledge, and everybody knew 20 about it already. 21 And I would venture that none of you on the 22 Committee knew about it. 23 Not a single district superintendent that 24 I spoke to in this state, not a single school-board 25 member, not a single parent, not a single principal 1 in New York City, knew about it at the time. 2 And I actually went and briefed the 3 Public Advocate's Office, the city council, the city 4 comptroller; none of them knew what I was talking 5 about. 6 And to tell you the truth, none of them 7 really believed in it, until I finally was able to 8 get it out in the national press. 9 And then the story started getting out into 10 the other inBloom states, because there were 11 nine inBloom states originally. 12 And I'm very pleased to say that, out of 13 those nine original inBloom states, six of them have 14 completely pulled out or put their data-sharing 15 plans on hold indefinitely. 16 There are only three states remaining, and 17 two of them, Illinois is allowing districts to opt 18 out, and, Jefferson County, Colorado, which is the 19 one county in Colorado that's planning on sharing 20 data with inBloom, is allowing parents to opt out. 21 So New York State is the only state in the 22 entire country that is not allowing districts or 23 parents to opt out of the sharing plans. 24 And I can tell you that we are now officially 25 the worst state in the country when it comes to 1 student privacy. 2 So parents have been very anguished, as you 3 can tell, about this issue. 4 For many, many months, the State Education 5 Department's response, if they responded at all, 6 because they generally didn't: They generally 7 stonewalled us at every turn. They wouldn't answer 8 our questions. They wouldn't respond to parents 9 when they asked and pleaded to opt out. 10 But they would say in other forums, that 11 parents simply misunderstood. 12 We do not understand that districts do this 13 all the time already, that districts could not 14 function without sharing this personal data with 15 vendors, and there was nothing different about what 16 was being done now. 17 And now I can tell you, after having gone to 18 speak to superintendents and data specialists and 19 principals in and outside New York City, that many 20 of them are as upset and anguished as we are about 21 these plans, and they say they do not do this 22 already. 23 And so the State Education is trying the same 24 line on all these superintendents, who you might 25 have read, are rebelling against inBloom themselves, 1 are turning back Race to the Top funds, in hopes 2 that they can protect their student data. 3 But, actually, the State's position is very, 4 very firm that they are going to upload the entire 5 state's public-school and charter-school 6 student-population data whether or not a district is 7 getting Race to the Top funds or not, and whether or 8 not a district is signing up for the data dashboards 9 or not. 10 So we are facing a very critical situation 11 here. 12 Now, I want to backtrack a little bit. 13 My main concern over the ten years or so I've 14 been working as an education advocate -- actually 15 it's longer now -- has been class size, and, this is 16 the passion and focus of my professional career. 17 I don't know if it's true that we're getting 18 more money from the State than ever before, but if 19 it's true, I can tell you we're also facing a 20 class-size crisis in New York City now. 21 When you talk about early grade education, 22 early-childhood education, you can't simply talk 23 about pre-K. 24 We are now suffering the largest class sizes 25 in 14 years in K through 3 in New York City, and 1 I was sorry to hear last night at the Westchester 2 forum that Commissioner King appeared, at many, many 3 other school district across the state are also 4 suffering a crisis in class size. 5 And this is the only proven way we know to 6 deliver personalized learning and differentiated 7 learning, and all these buzz words that you hear all 8 the time from State Education officials and other 9 educators, is through smaller classes. 10 It cannot be delivered through software. 11 It cannot be delivered through computers. 12 All that is very experimental, and there's no 13 proven way to do it. 14 And, in fact, in my view, what our 15 educational -- State Education Department and the 16 DOE is trying to do, is to supplement or substitute 17 that personalized relationship between students and 18 teachers with data-mining software that will be 19 produced by for-profit vendors in order to fatten 20 their pocketbooks, and not necessarily to help our 21 students. 22 So I just wanted to go over a few more 23 things. 24 I went over about how secretive the 25 State Education Department has been over the last 1 year. 2 It does not help build parent confidence when 3 they will not answer questions, when they will not 4 allow us to opt out. 5 Originally, the State Education Department 6 planned to sign a no-bid contract with 7 Wireless Generation to build their state 8 longitudinal program. 9 The State Comptroller rejected that contract, 10 for privacy concerns, because Wireless is a 11 subsidiary of News Corporation, which is now 12 being -- actually, people are on trial in the U.K. 13 for hacking into cell phones. 14 And then the State Education Department went 15 around them and signed a contract with 16 inBloom, Inc., or, at that time, Shared Learning 17 Collaborative, whose major subcontractor was 18 Wireless Generation. 19 So we think that that was rather devious as 20 well. 21 There are huge security concerns with putting 22 all this data accumulated on a cloud. 23 86 percent of IT professionals do not trust 24 their more sensitive information on clouds because 25 of the way they can easily be hacked into or 1 breached. 2 InBloom, Inc., as you might have noted, in 3 their security policies, say they will not be 4 responsible if the data leaks out, either in storage 5 or in transmission. 6 They are going to charge for this. 7 So there's been a lot of discussion, are they 8 selling the data? 9 Well, at this point, they are not selling the 10 data, we know that for sure. 11 But two things: 12 InBloom, Inc., is going to start charging 13 New York State for their own data, in 2015, handing 14 back to them the data that we've handed back, by 15 2 to 5 dollars per student. 16 They are also exploring partnerships with 17 selected vendors, charging them for access to the 18 data, which if not is selling the data, is similar 19 to renting out the data. 20 And none of these costs, compared to the huge 21 financial liability that will be on the State's 22 shoulders, if and when the data breaches, because we 23 are facing multi-million dollar class-action suits, 24 because, as I've said, inBloom has legally and 25 financially tried to insulate themselves from all 1 liability. 2 So these are some of the issues that I just 3 wanted to bring up quickly. 4 There's also issues with Common Core, in 5 that, if we do go through with the PARCC Consortium, 6 in their written agreements with the federal 7 government, it is very clearly said that the federal 8 government will require that they will have access 9 to any and all data that the PARCC Consortium 10 acquires from New York State students. 11 So that's another issue. 12 Right now, they're trying to do a lot of 13 damage control at the federal level, and the various 14 groups that are funded by the Gates Foundation, 15 saying the feds have no intention of creating their 16 own federal databases. 17 But I can tell you that, in the contracts 18 with the PARCC and the Smarter Balance Consortium, 19 there are very clear words saying they demand access 20 to all this data as well. 21 So this is all very disturbing and very 22 upsetting to parents, because we really believe, on 23 some basic level, that we are the guardians and must 24 safeguard the safety of our children. 25 And we do not see why having enrolled them in 1 a public school we lose all our rights. 2 And right now, Tom Dunn, who is the 3 communications and spokesperson for the 4 State Education Department, was quoted as saying, 5 "When you enroll your child in a public school, you 6 give up all your rights to their data." 7 And we don't believe that this is morally 8 right, we don't believe that this is ethically 9 right. 10 And we really do rely on the Legislature, and 11 especially the Senate, to protect our children in 12 this way, and to give us back our parental rights. 13 Thank you very much. 14 [Applause.] 15 ZAKIYAH ANSARI: So, good afternoon. 16 Thank you to Senator Flanagan and the 17 Committee. 18 You have my testimony. 19 My name is Zakiyah Ansari. I'm the 20 advocacy director for the Alliance for Quality 21 Education, and I'm a public-school parent of eight. 22 So this is an historic moment in public 23 education. 24 We are at a crossroads between fully 25 investing in teaching and learning, or continuing 1 down the destructive path of excessive testing, 2 inequity, and barebones education. 3 Not only are New York students on the line, 4 but the fate of New York is in jeopardy if we don't 5 choose the path of high-quality education for all. 6 The Alliance for Quality Education believes 7 that the research and practice from our nation and 8 the world shows us what must be done. 9 Leading examples throughout the world, as 10 well as research here at home, has provided us with 11 the roadmap to the successes -- to success: 12 Adequately fund schools through equitable 13 distribution of aid; 14 Ensure that all students, and primarily those 15 in high-need, low-income communities, have access to 16 an engaging and challenging curriculum, and are in 17 college-ready community schools; 18 Ensure that all 4-year-olds have access to a 19 high-quality pre-K program, starting with those in 20 high-need, low-income communities. 21 Also, AQE believes that tests should not be 22 the sole factor that closes a school, holds back a 23 student, or determines the employment of a teacher. 24 The Regents Reform Agenda, which includes 25 transition to the Common Core, great teachers and 1 leaders, and improving low-performing schools, 2 carries a lot of promise; however, implementing the 3 Regents Reform Agenda has not been a smooth process. 4 It has been inadequate to transition to the 5 Common Core and to its tests, as well as inadequate 6 funding investment in improving education. 7 And the question becomes, what's the rush? 8 Three years ago, I might add, I shared with 9 then-Commissioner Steiner, later with 10 Commissioner King, as well as Chancellor Walcott, 11 and shared with them that parents -- there would be 12 pushback from parents around Common Core. 13 One, there was no investment in ensuring that 14 we were educated and understood what Common Core 15 was. 16 The table on Common Core was set without our 17 input. 18 And why should we trust, when we were told 19 that the last standard was the one that was gonna 20 get our children prepared for college and careers? 21 So the Alliance for Quality Education has 22 always supported and advocated for an engaging and 23 challenging curriculum for all students, and 24 embraced the promise that the Common Core carried; 25 however, the implementation of the Common Core was 1 rushed, making the promise of quality curriculum 2 null. 3 Instead of building a foundation for success, 4 New York State rushed to get these new tests to the 5 students, knowing ahead of time that most would 6 fail. 7 My son Nasir was one of those students who 8 was subjected to the unnecessary stress of having to 9 take this test. 10 He woke up the first day of the ELA exam, 11 stressed, sitting at the side of my bed at 6 a.m. in 12 morning, with his head in his hands, asking me, What 13 will happen if he doesn't pass this test? Will he 14 go on to the next grade? 15 Nevermind the fact that he was a 16 well-mannered student, that he passed his other 17 assessments in school, and that he was just an 18 all-around good student. 19 He was concerned about one test. 20 For two weeks he had highs and lows. 21 One minute he thought he did well, the next 22 minute he wasn't sure. 23 I heard other stories of students throwing 24 up, crying, feeling sick. 25 And even one student leading the class in 1 prayer, because they were so worried about passing 2 this test. 3 Why? 4 Because then we hear the Chancellor of 5 New York City tell us, as parents, as well as the 6 State, that "it doesn't count, not to worry," as if 7 that makes everything okay. 8 Even hearing the acknowledgment today that it 9 didn't roll out well just continues to fuel my 10 anger. 11 Why does my child, why does any child, have 12 to go through that? 13 That's not okay. 14 Instead of focusing on how we can improve our 15 education systems to truly be an equalizing system 16 and an institution that elevates all, we have been 17 distracted with the tests, and how we measure 18 teachers teaching to the test. 19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Zakiyah, I'm sorry, I have 20 to do this. 21 ZAKIYAH ANSARI: Okay, sure. 22 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I'm desperately trying to 23 accommodate people. 24 ZAKIYAH ANSARI: No problem. 25 SENATOR FLANAGAN: So, please -- 1 ZAKIYAH ANSARI: Yep. 2 SENATOR FLANAGAN: -- you are a very 3 competent person. 4 Please just summarize. 5 ZAKIYAH ANSARI: Not a problem. 6 So we have sucked the life and creativity out 7 of the classroom and stripped away the love of 8 learning from our children. 9 We know what works, it's not rocket science, 10 but when will we invest in it; not create 11 competitive grants which continue the cycle of 12 creating winners and losers? 13 We must support our teachers and staff, and 14 stop with the high stakes of testing. 15 We must give back the testing to assess where 16 students are, not to use them to punish schools, 17 students, and staff, by closing schools or firing 18 teachers. 19 And I'll close with this: 20 No one has higher expectations for their 21 children than parents. 22 Whether you're rich or poor, or you're Black 23 or White, whatever community you come from, we want 24 better for our children than what we've had. 25 I need to know that my 1-year-old grandson 1 and my 3-month-old granddaughter will have access to 2 a full-day quality pre-K program, not that maybe 3 they will get lucky. 4 I need to know that my son, as a Black male, 5 that once he graduates from high school, he won't be 6 another statistic because the State is making -- 7 because the State is going to make a commitment to 8 investing and funding CFE and increasing his 9 opportunities to learn. 10 I have invested eight children in the system, 11 and was told that each new shiny thing, "that 12 standard," was the one that was gonna get them all 13 ready for college and careers. 14 Unfortunately, I feel lied to and bamboozled, 15 I feel angry and let down, but the fight is still in 16 me, and I have this question: 17 Even if Common Core was implemented 18 correctly, it still would not address that our 19 schools don't have art and music, less guidance 20 counselors, can't buy those very books that they 21 need to read, no libraries, no AP courses, or 22 science -- or science labs. 23 The fight is still in me. 24 We need to ensure that we are fully funding 25 our schools and getting away from the high-stakes of 1 testing. 2 Thank you. 3 [Applause.] 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I think everyone is just 5 clapping because you're a mother of eight. 6 God love you. 7 [Laughter.] 8 SENATOR FLANAGAN: That is impressive in and 9 of itself. 10 But, ladies, thank you very much for your 11 testimony, and for your patience. We appreciate it 12 very much. 13 I have to make one more accommodation for 14 someone jumping on a train, and that is, 15 Dr. Stephen -- or, Stephen Boese, executive director 16 of the Learning Disabilities Association. 17 And I do genuinely appreciate everyone's 18 fortitude. 19 STEPHEN BOESE: Thank you very much for the 20 opportunity to present, and thank you very much for 21 accommodating my schedule. 22 I do have a late meeting in Albany this 23 afternoon. 24 SENATOR FLANAGAN: We, of course, understand 25 that you will be very brief, out of respect to 1 everyone who's following you. 2 STEPHEN BOESE: I will be very brief. 3 I think the point that I need to make here is 4 actually, I think, very simple, and I can make it 5 very briefly, and, it really comes back to a 6 question that Senator Felder asked Chancellor Tisch 7 this morning, which is: What about the students who 8 are not going to be able to pass these Regents exams 9 and graduate from school? 10 What about them? 11 And I'm a member of the Coalition on Multiple 12 Pathways to a Diploma. 13 We have an analysis that shows that that's 14 about 48,000 students per year, per age cohort. 15 About 15,000 of them are students with 16 disabilities. 17 And I'm here specifically to ask you to 18 please consider students with learning disabilities, 19 who know the material, who work very, very hard, 20 who, by the very nature of their disability, cannot 21 demonstrate what they know, that their proficiency 22 with the course material through standardized tests. 23 There are other ways that they can 24 demonstrate that proficiency. 25 Now, I hear from parents all the time, as the 1 director of the Learning Disabilities Association, 2 who say: You know, my son, my daughter, has got to 3 be the most hard-working student in my school, 4 because what's an hour for homework for their peers 5 takes us four hours to get through. 6 They work very hard, they get to know the 7 material, they're proficient in the material, but 8 they cannot show that they know that through a 9 standardized test. 10 Now, in terms of the Regents Reform Agenda, 11 and what's been done so far, there are -- well, let 12 me just take a step back. 13 When I went to school, there was a local 14 diploma, we used to call it the "regular diploma," 15 and a Regents diploma. 16 For all intents and purposes, that local 17 diploma now is only for students with disabilities. 18 There are allowances that the Regents have 19 made, some of it is within the past few years, some 20 of it very recently, so that students can score a 21 lower grade on a Regents exam, and compensate for 22 that with a higher grade, or just score a 55 on a 23 Regents exam, and earn a local diploma. 24 And that is nice, needed flexibility, but 25 we've got two problems with that: 1 One problem is, that it's turning the local 2 diploma into a "student with disabilities-only" 3 diploma, which is going to diminish its value, and 4 that's not fair to students with disabilities. 5 The other is, that it labels a kid that 6 really may know the material, but cannot show that 7 they know the material by taking the exam, that 8 they're a 45 in that subject matter, and that's not 9 fair, either. 10 And they also have come out with a 11 CDOS credential, which is not a diploma, but we've 12 got the same -- which is to show work-readiness, but 13 it's got the same issue, that it's only for students 14 with disabilities. 15 Now, if these initiatives are worthy, if a 16 local diploma is still gonna be good, it should be 17 available to all students. 18 And if it's not worthwhile, then it shouldn't 19 just be available for students with disabilities. 20 We need another solution. 21 So that's our concern: we need multiple 22 pathways to a diploma not based on high-stakes 23 tests. 24 And this isn't just -- I'm here to represent 25 students with learning disabilities and their 1 parents, but it's not just students with learning 2 disabilities. 3 It's English-language learners, it's children 4 who are over-age and under-accredited, or maybe just 5 other students for whom demonstrating what they know 6 on a high-stakes test is not the best way for them 7 to show what they know. 8 There are the waiver schools in 9 New York State that have experience, and good 10 experience, with students demonstrating what they 11 know through portfolio assessments and through 12 projects. 13 We've had some talk here about career and 14 technical education. 15 We're all for career and technical education, 16 and we think that's a great way for some students 17 with learning disabilities to demonstrate what they 18 know, to learn something on a hands-on way that will 19 be useful for them. 20 But, the only discussion I've heard so far 21 from the Regents, is that they would substitute one 22 Regents exam for -- of the five that are required 23 with some sort of CTE certification, which is just 24 not going far enough. 25 Now, we discussed this with Chancellor Tisch 1 over the summer. We told her we really want a forum 2 on this, with parents and advocates and experts to 3 talk about this. 4 She thought it was a good idea at the last 5 Board of Regents -- or, two Board of Regents 6 meetings ago. 7 Chancellor King announced that there's gonna 8 be a forum on multiple pathways to a diploma in 9 November. It's probably going to be pushed forward 10 a little bit now, I guess, but -- and we're all for 11 that; we're all for that discussion. 12 But at this point, we need a -- and I'll say 13 it once more: We need multiple pathways to a 14 diploma not based on high-stakes tests, so that all 15 students who have learned the material can earn up 16 to -- recognized worthwhile diploma. 17 Thank you. 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Can I ask you the same 19 question I asked Mr. Logan? 20 If you -- I mean, I certainly have my own 21 ideas, but if you could change something, if you 22 could make one change, what would it be? 23 STEPHEN BOESE: Well, the one change is that 24 we would have a pathway, or multiple pathways, to a 25 diploma, where a student could graduate without the 1 barrier of those five Regents exams. That we would 2 have something like we used to have with the local 3 diploma, an assessment process, so that students who 4 cannot demonstrate what they know with a high-stakes 5 test can still able to graduate from school. 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay, and let me ask you 7 this, particularly in light of the work that you do: 8 What would you call that? 9 Because, in my opinion, what you call that, 10 you know, a certificate or a diploma, to me, the 11 word "diploma," in and of itself, carries some 12 significant bearing, and some emotion that goes with 13 it. 14 So how -- if you are to do that, how would 15 you characterize it? 16 STEPHEN BOESE: Well, it would have to be a 17 State-sanctioned recognized diploma, much like the 18 local diploma or the regular diploma used to be. 19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I get that, but I'm asking 20 what you would do. 21 If you had the chance to say, "This is what 22 it's gonna be," what would you make it? 23 STEPHEN BOESE: I would make, there be one 24 diploma, call it the "Regents diploma," that would 25 have multiple pathways to get there, and that 1 students who meet the standards are able to earn a 2 diploma. 3 And that standard may be through 4 Regents exams for students who can handle that it. 5 Maybe that's most students. 6 But other students would have another 7 pathway, and we'd have one diploma. 8 Now, you mentioned, call it "diploma." 9 I mean, we -- there was the IEP diploma, 10 which was not a diploma. It was called a "diploma"; 11 it was not a diploma. 12 And we agreed that that should be eliminated, 13 and it was eliminated. 14 Because there was so much confusion, students 15 left school, and those heartbreaking phone calls we 16 used to get from students who would say: 17 I just left school with an IEP diploma and 18 I learned it's worthless. It's not gonna get me a 19 job. It doesn't get me into school. It doesn't get 20 me into even military service. 21 That's not what -- so that's not what we 22 want; we don't want something that's just called 23 a "diploma." 24 We need one recognized diploma that is 25 available to all students who work hard and do their 1 coursework. 2 [Applause.] 3 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Safe trip. 4 STEPHEN BOESE: Thank you very much. 5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay, Mr. Merriman, who 6 will be followed by Sheila Kaplan. 7 Good afternoon. 8 JAMES MERRIMAN: Good afternoon, 9 Senator/Chairman, Senators. 10 Thank you. 11 My name is James Merriman. I am the CEO of 12 the New York City Charter School Center. 13 And I guess I really should thank the Regents 14 for creating an issue that, for once, charters 15 aren't at the center of in terms of controversy. 16 This is a new one for us. 17 Seriously, this is a serious issue, and, 18 obviously, as an advocate for charter schools, we 19 support accountability. 20 Accountability is at the heart of what 21 charters are about, and accountability is measured 22 in student achievement, and, to a good degree, you 23 know, that a fair way to do that is through the 24 state assessments, we believe. 25 So we wholeheartedly support the Regents 1 agenda. 2 Now, I think two questions come up; right? 3 So, do you need tests to do this? 4 Do you need state assessments to do this in 5 order to judge how children are doing? 6 And, obviously, while I don't think any 7 charter leader thinks that one test on one day, or 8 over the course of a week, is the only way by which 9 they would measure a student or promote a student, 10 in terms of being able to see whether students 11 really are moving towards college-readiness, the 12 stakes couldn't be higher, frankly, not in 13 promotion, but whether they will eventually succeed. 14 And as I have listened to the testimony, and 15 I listened to most of it in my office today, and 16 when I heard people say that this is not a crisis, 17 I get confused, because, I hear them in other 18 forums, when they're criticizing the mayor, 19 criticizing the fact that only 13 percent of 20 minority students are college-ready. 21 So which is it? 22 Is this a crisis, when 13 percent of minority 23 students are not college-ready? 24 I think it is a crisis. 25 And tests help move people forward. 1 Now, you hear stories, well, students throw 2 up, so forth and so on. 3 So, I'm a parent of three kids. I help them 4 with their homework. 5 Trust me, I find papers to be far more 6 painful exercises for my children than any test 7 which is over in a few hours. 8 I mean, this is part and parcel of having to 9 work hard. 10 And trying to convince kids that they have to 11 study and work hard is not easy, but that's what 12 it's going to take for our kids to be competitive. 13 Now, number two, right, a lot of controversy 14 over whether the test should be used to measure 15 student achievement. 16 I was heartened to see that President Mulgrew 17 continues to believe that they should, despite his 18 call for a moratorium of one year on consequences. 19 This is what a charter person will say about 20 this, right: Charters are not subject to having the 21 state evaluation system. 22 And there's a simple reason why: because we 23 don't have statutory tenure. 24 So this, again, is a point where you can go 25 one way or the other. 1 Right? 2 The history of why we have the state 3 assessment and teacher-evaluation system, that 4 everyone, basically, who was a stakeholder agreed -- 5 unions, governor, State Senate, Assembly -- agreed 6 to, is because everyone agreed that the previous 7 system wasn't working in the district. 8 And the reason we have value-added 9 measurement modeling, which has caused so much 10 controversy, is because people don't want to give 11 principals the autonomy to make these decisions on 12 their own with more subjective measures. 13 And so you either have these objective 14 measures with tests, or, you go with subjective 15 measures. 16 You have to pick one or the other. 17 And, again, value-added modeling was the way 18 that people decided to go in order to remove that 19 subjectivity. 20 If we want to revisit the issue, you can look 21 at the charter system. 22 We are not subject to it, because we don't 23 have a problem in being able to cancel out those 24 teachers who don't belong in a school building. 25 Finally, from my particular vantage point, 1 when I hear that there isn't a curriculum that was 2 given to teachers, you know, in charters, people 3 worked to create curricula that worked for their 4 kids. 5 They understood that to be their 6 responsibility, principals and teachers working 7 together. 8 But what I would like to remind everyone is 9 that, for charters, we lack something much more 10 basic than even a curriculum. 11 We'll take responsibility for creating the 12 curriculum. We will not look to State Ed to do it. 13 But we don't even have a roof over our head 14 or the money to put it there, right now. 15 And so I would ask, as you think about all of 16 this, you remember that, still, charter schools, of 17 which now there are 183 serving 70,000 students, 18 with 50,000 parents on our wait list, we still do 19 not have facility funding or any guarantee of 20 public-school space, and we should. 21 Thank you. 22 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Can I ask you just one 23 question? 24 JAMES MERRIMAN: Sure. 25 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I know one of the issues, 1 I certainly heard Mike Mulgrew talk about it at 2 length, and with great passion, is the failure to 3 retain. 4 Not so much to recruit, but, rather, to 5 retain; that, roughly, will you 50 percent of the 6 people leave the teaching profession in the first 7 five years. 8 What's your experience with the charters? 9 Do you have a similar type turnover? 10 Is it higher? lower? 11 JAMES MERRIMAN: It is higher. 12 Our "State of the Sector" report, you know, 13 laid that out in detail. 14 And I think, I look at it in two ways: 15 Number one, the schools that are doing well 16 by students, to me that's the most important data 17 point, not the retention rate of teachers. 18 But, number two, I think every educator knows 19 that if they can work on retaining their better 20 teachers longer, they will eventually be a stronger 21 school for students. 22 So, we actually saw as a positive, that 23 number, because we're not sure how much better 24 curricula can really get. 25 But we do know that teachers get much, much 1 better, from year one to year seven. 2 So as a charter sector, I think you're seeing 3 more and more emphasis from principals on how 4 teachers can stay longer in a job that demands 5 enormous sacrifice from them. 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you very much. 7 Thank you for your patience as well. 8 Sheila Kaplan. 9 SHEILA KAPLAN: I'm going to give you my cell 10 phone, that's timed to nine minutes. 11 If you could just let me know, I will hear 12 it, and then just give me the one minute afterwards. 13 SENATOR FELDER: You can hold it, I'll let 14 you know. 15 SHEILA KAPLAN: No, no, it makes me too 16 nervous. 17 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay, fair enough. 18 SHEILA KAPLAN: So, thank you very much. 19 My voice is okay? 20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes. 21 SHEILA KAPLAN: Yes? 22 First of all, I'm a mother of three children. 23 I was on the school board in Newburgh, 24 New York, I was vice president, and I never heard of 25 FERPA. 1 I never heard of FERPA until my oldest child 2 went to-- 3 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Sheila, am I supposed to 4 push start? 5 SHEILA KAPLAN: Oh, push start. 6 Yes, thank you. 7 Yes, of course, I didn't say "thank you very 8 much." 9 After I say "thank you very much." 10 Thank you very much for the invite. 11 Now you can start. 12 So I never heard of FERPA until my oldest 13 child went to college, and I said, Is he going to 14 school? 15 And they said, Well, we can't tell you that 16 because of FERPA. 17 That's not true. 18 If your child is in college, or 18, you do 19 have access to their records if you claim them as a 20 dependent. 21 The second time I heard about FERPA was when 22 my second child's education records were breached. 23 And, they sent me a letter, and I said, Well, 24 why would you collect information that you can't 25 protect? 1 That was my first conversation with EduCause, 2 an absolutely fantastic organization that's 3 primarily higher education. 4 It wasn't until 2006, the fall of 2006, and 5 that's seven-plus years ago, that I received a phone 6 call at my apartment in Manhattan -- I moved to 7 Manhattan -- and a recording was telling me that my 8 child was absent from PS-something. 9 And I hung up the phone and said, "That's 10 really bad." 11 I never had any children in the New York City 12 schools, but I know the name of the family who had 13 this phone number before I did. 14 If I wanted to find this child -- because 15 they kept calling the wrong numbers, if I wanted to 16 find this child, I would not have a problem finding 17 this child. 18 There must be a law against this. 19 So, of course, I went through New York City 20 FOIL. I spoke to Robert Jackson. 21 Spitzer was the governor then. Paterson was 22 the LG. 23 He said, "If there is not a law, there will 24 be a law." 25 Okay, there still is no law. 1 Then I happened to -- I spent -- I called 2 Joel Reidenberg very early. 3 That name is probably familiar because of his 4 50-state longitudinal database study, and he said to 5 me, in 2006: I don't look at children's privacy, 6 but keep looking at it because it's important. 7 So I did. 8 A couple of years later, I realized it was 9 consumer protection. 10 It may have been a little bit earlier that 11 I went to Peter Appleby, who was still with 12 Senate Education, and I said, "Peter, look at this." 13 And he said, "Sheila, you found a hole. You 14 found a hole in the federal law." 15 And I started to cry, because I hadn't wasted 16 my time. 17 So now I have Peter telling me, like, you're 18 not wasting your time. Joel Reidenberg saying, Take 19 a look at this, keep looking at this. 20 And then I came across, this document, which 21 was put out by the New York Senate, and it's 22 "Cyber Crimes Against Children." 23 And I thought, for sure, there's something in 24 there about directory information, because 25 Joel Reidenberg had said, "Mention domestic 1 violence. Talk about domestic violence." 2 There was nothing in there about it. 3 But, I did speak to Tony Helmer [ph.], who's 4 one of the detectives, and worked with him for more 5 than a year, and he said, "Sheila, I have a file. 6 It's not a matter of if there's going to be a 7 discussion on this, it's when." 8 So, thank you, finally, seven years and maybe 9 a week or so later, I am here talking about this. 10 Now, this -- so let me just jump, because 11 I know I'm running out of time. 12 The opt-out that I'm going be talking about 13 is not the opt out of testing, it's not the opt out 14 of data collection. 15 I understand parents' concerns about opting 16 out of testing. 17 When my youngest child went to kindergarten 18 in New York, they wanted to test her, and I said, 19 "You're not testing my child. If she's not ready, 20 you'll let me know." 21 The interesting part was, was I had 22 three kids in four years, and I had never taught her 23 nursery rhymes. 24 So, was she ready? 25 She was; because, on her own, she would go 1 behind closed doors, and we'd have to open them, 2 like, all through the night, saying, First time at 3 this address, Rachel Stone [ph.] -- and she would -- 4 that was her stage name, and she would come in and 5 she would make up rhymes. 6 "I just walked through the door, before I was 7 at the store," and that type of thing. 8 So kids kind of developmentally know what 9 they're supposed to be doing, which I really found 10 that interesting. 11 So now I have -- now I know that the problem 12 is about something related to consumer protection -- 13 And how much time do I have? 14 SENATOR FELDER: Well, I'm telling you, you 15 told us we should -- 16 SHEILA KAPLAN: Okay, right, don't even tell 17 me. 18 Don't even tell me. 19 Okay, so now I know it's consumer protection. 20 So I went back to Joel Reidenberg and I said, 21 "Oh, it's consumer protection, it wasn't children's 22 privacy." 23 He said, "No, it is children's privacy, and 24 I'm doing a 50-state study." 25 I said, "Oh, good, I don't have to look at 1 directory information?" 2 And he said, "No, you still do." 3 So I continued to look at it. 4 Eventually, in the summer -- May 29th of 5 2007, I was at a dinner with the 6 late-Senator Morahan, and he said to me, "I want you 7 in my office tomorrow." 8 And I met with his staff, with Steve Powers. 9 He said, "I want this to be one last thing to 10 do." 11 And I thought he meant before the Senate 12 flipped. I did not realize he was ill. 13 So Steve and I met over that summer, and we 14 pretty much wrote the "Student Privacy Bill," or the 15 Directory Information Opt-Out Bill, that was S2357 16 and A8474. 17 And the Senate did flip, and 18 Senator Oppenheimer did sponsor that bill, and it 19 passed the Senate 62-0, first time. 20 Nothing from the Assembly. 21 The school boards, it was interesting that 22 they said, "Well, we're not going to oppose it, 23 Sheila, because it's a federal issue." 24 Fine. 25 Now, the next year, it has a sponsor in the 1 Assembly, and that's Assemblywoman Rosenthal. 2 "Well, now it's a local issue." 3 I said, A local issue? You had since 1974 to 4 do something and you haven't done anything. 5 "Well, it's an unfunded mandate." 6 I said, "It's a gift." 7 If every state is going to have to hire 8 someone to talk to their boards, or their parents, 9 the families, about student privacy, it's going to 10 cost a lot of money. 11 So that bill died. 12 It did have an Assembly sponsor; it died. 13 I hope one day you do look at the opposition 14 to it, because it was not based on facts. 15 So, please, look at it, it's a good bill. 16 I redid it again. It's the "Student Privacy 17 Protection Act." 18 Okay. 19 Now, this bill that started out as the 20 Student Privacy Protection Act has morphed into the 21 Chief Privacy Officer for Education Officer for 22 Education Act, and that is based on the past 23 seven years. 24 And thanks to Leonie of her attention to 25 inBloom, of waking up parents to the problem of data 1 collection, that we need to have one. 2 It's backed up by Joel Reidenberg who did 3 that 50-state study. 4 He said that there should be a chief privacy 5 officer in the State Education agencies. 6 So please take a look at that, that's in the 7 package also. 8 And Joel's testimony, saying that we do need 9 to have a chief privacy officer, is also in there. 10 Now, the last thing I'm going talk about, I'm 11 skipping over a lot because I know I'm running out 12 of time, is if you were to ask me, What's the one 13 thing that we should do, besides have opt-out and a 14 chief privacy officer, we have to look at school 15 safety. 16 What happened in Tucson, Arizona, what 17 happened at Virginia Tech, that's under FERPA. 18 The U.S. Department of Education issued 19 something in 2009, and 2011 again -- 20 I might have my years mixed up. 21 -- saying that, if a child -- if a student 22 seems -- is a hazard to one's self or other, they 23 have no privacy. 24 Interesting that I was looking at a blog by 25 Steven McDonald -- he's a higher-education FERPA 1 expert -- which is, higher education is lucky that 2 they have the money to be able to hire consultants 3 for that. 4 I read on a blog, and someone at that same 5 school, Pima Community College, said, We need to 6 know more about that because there's a problem. 7 A year later, Gabby Giffords and other people 8 were shot. 9 They knew about the problem. 10 Then a report came out from the 11 U.S. Department of Education, the Department of 12 Defense -- and I always forget the -- and the FBI, 13 saying that 20 -- 14 Okay, I'm done. 15 -- 20 percent of school -- student-related 16 crime happens off -- 17 That was set at nine minutes. 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I know. 19 SHEILA KAPLAN: Okay. 20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: You told me to tell you at 21 nine minutes. 22 SHEILA KAPLAN: Okay, nine minutes, thanks. 23 -- 20 percent of student-related crime 24 happens off campus. 25 So, this is something we have to look at, 1 community colleges. 2 I know this is lower education, but, we still 3 have these problems in elementary and secondary 4 education. 5 And I left out a lot. 6 I hope that, one day, you do read through, 7 and perhaps call me and I can answer more questions. 8 SENATOR TKACZYK: I do have a quick question. 9 You gave us bill language, S5355. 10 Does that include, it says, "K-12 Student 11 Privacy and Cloud-Computing Act." 12 That -- does that include the chief privacy 13 officer for -- 14 SHEILA KAPLAN: No, that's just a great bill. 15 That's just another nice bill that I referred 16 to in the testimony. 17 The chief privacy officer, I think it's 18 probably exhibit number -- I'm guessing. 19 It's in there. 20 It says -- 21 SENATOR TKACZYK: There's no specific bill in 22 place? 23 SHEILA KAPLAN: No, it's a model. 24 Same thing with the Student Privacy 25 Protection Act. 1 SENATOR TKACZYK: Okay, thank you. 2 SHEILA KAPLAN: So, and one more last thing. 3 I know I sound like everyone else doing this. 4 I am like everyone else. 5 Parents are concerned about vendors having 6 access to their children's information; yet, they're 7 not opting out of directory information. 8 There are zero restrictions on directory 9 information. 10 They have the right already. We don't have 11 to fight for that right. 12 All we have to do is be informed of it. 13 And, thank you very much for allowing me an 14 extra couple of minutes. 15 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Sheila, I know we interact 16 with you quite frequently in our office, and I'm 17 sure we'll to continue to do that. 18 And we appreciate your patience and taking 19 the time. 20 SHEILA KAPLAN: Thank you. 21 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And, you enjoy the rest of 22 your day. 23 SHEILA KAPLAN: Thank you, you too. 24 Thanks. 25 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I don't know if I can say 1 "moving right along," but we are trying. 2 So -- 3 You were good. 4 SENATOR TKACZYK: Thank you. 5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: You want this back? 6 Okay, New York Alliance for Public Education, 7 Tracy Pyper and Rosalie Friend. 8 ROSALIE FRIEND: Hello. 9 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Who is who? 10 ROSALIE FRIEND: I'm Rosalie Friend from 11 Save Our Schools. 12 This is Tracy Pyper from the Alliance. 13 TRACY PYPER: I'm Tracy Pyper. 14 I'm coming to you from far away, from 15 Westchester County. 16 I want to thank you very much, 17 Senator Flanagan, and the Committee, for having me 18 here to speak today. 19 I'm the co-chairperson of the New York 20 Alliance for Public Education. 21 It's a group of local concerned parent 22 leaders and superintendents who advocate for over 23 38 public school districts in our region and serve 24 over 113,000 students. 25 I'm also the mother of two children: one a 1 high school grad who's currently going to college, 2 and the other is a high school junior. 3 I am a head teacher for a local 4 pre-kindergarten as well. 5 I have master's degree in elementary ed, and 6 24 years of teaching experience. 7 As a parent and an early-childhood educator, 8 and a staunch believer in public education, I am 9 profoundly dismayed at the one-size-fits-all way 10 education reform is being implemented in 11 New York State. 12 The unwillingness of the Education Department 13 to work with parents, teachers, and superintendents 14 about their many concerns of this course of action 15 has created a disaster in the making. 16 First, I would like to address school 17 funding, briefly. 18 I come from Westchester which has a different 19 set of circumstances. 20 New York State's effort at education reform, 21 combined with the tax-levy cap, have considerably 22 diminished local controls over funding, program 23 standard, and curricular content. 24 While we understand the value of education 25 reform, with the long history of excellent schools 1 in Westchester, we simply do not need, require, or 2 deserve the current micro-managerial constraints and 3 costs associated with the new unfunded mandates 4 promoted by Race to the Top and its APPR 5 requirements. 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Tracy, I would ask you, 7 respectfully, to do what I did to everybody. 8 TRACY PYPER: Yep, I know. 9 SENATOR FLANAGAN: You are a 24-year teacher, 10 so if you can summarize and hit the high points, 11 that would be -- 12 TRACY PYPER: It's not clear what our 13 students gain from these mandates, and we are 14 graduating students with a very high 15 college-attendance rate. 16 At the very onset of the tax-levy cap, 17 public-school advocates were very concerned about 18 the impact that the cap would have on school 19 funding, particularly in light of the unfunded 20 mandates. 21 Governor Cuomo promised mandate relief at the 22 time of the tax-levy cap. 23 Two and a half years later, that relief has 24 not happened. 25 And, more and more districts in our region 1 has been forced to either face bruising budget 2 fights, or, to make difficult choices, and cut very 3 crucial programs in the arts and the sciences, 4 after-school programs, sports programs, guidance 5 counselors, all sort of support services for our 6 students. 7 So we ask that all educational mandates, 8 including those associated with APPR, standardized 9 testing, and Common Core be subject to 10 Governor Cuomo's promise of immediate mandate 11 relief. 12 As an early-childhood educator, I would like 13 to cover the impact of Common Core, especially in 14 our elementary schools. 15 I want to talk to you about the importance of 16 play-based learning. 17 And, Common Core, as it exists in grades 18 K through 2, relies heavily on assessments, and, 19 also, the literary-based and the math require 20 regular assessments, and teachers are being forced 21 to eliminate more creative activities and 22 significantly reduce the opportunities for creative 23 play. 24 Childhood play is not a waste of time. 25 It's a significant and important part of 1 brain development. 2 And, childhood professionals, education 3 professionals, have advocated to the Department of 4 Education for a reevaluation of this, but, so far, 5 there has been no evaluation of this policy. 6 So, I just believe that we should reevaluate 7 these reforms, and reconsider the blanket 8 implementation of policies that are clearly not 9 serving the best interests of our children. 10 Our school districts have been successful in 11 preparing our children for the world. 12 We now face ever-increasing constraints and 13 threats which reduce our effectiveness, puts our 14 children data in jeopardy, and seem to be moving 15 forward at a rapid pace, despite legitimate concerns 16 from parents and educators. 17 This doesn't seem to make sense to anyone. 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you, Tracy. 19 Before I go to Rosalie, I just want to make 20 one comment. 21 The Senate took pretty aggressive positions 22 on proper funding of APPR. 23 And, frankly, I was the lead pain in the neck 24 on that matter. 25 And, we didn't get partners in the Governor 1 and the Assembly. 2 We tried quite mightily, but they didn't have 3 any interest in funding that, and, I think that's 4 problematic. 5 But, Rosalie, please. 6 ROSALIE FRIEND: I'm speechless, because APPR 7 is what I'm going to be speaking against, or at 8 least parts of it. 9 I thank you for the opportunity to address 10 you. 11 I'm concerned that the -- and I have a 12 written summary from which I will try to skip parts. 13 I'm concerned that the educational reform 14 policies adopted by the Regents derived primarily 15 from business interests and foundations created by 16 businessmen. 17 They know very little about child development 18 or learning, and they seem to base their 19 instructions, naturally, on their business 20 experience. 21 Sometimes they sound as if they don't know 22 the difference between a child and a can of tuna 23 fish. 24 I speak as a parent whose child attended our 25 public schools, as a graduate of public schools and 1 universities, including a Ph.D. in educational 2 psychology from the CUNY Graduate School. 3 I've taught literacy and educational 4 psychology, including teaching assessment at 5 Hunter College -- at Hunter College School of 6 Education. 7 I'm deeply troubled by charter schools and 8 the flaws of the Common Core, but, today, I want to 9 speak to you about assessment and the use of student 10 is scores to evaluate teachers. 11 How do we determine what children learn? 12 We can't look directly into their minds. 13 Teachers look at their actions and responses 14 during class, and construct tests. 15 They construct sets of tasks that should give 16 indications of the skills and knowledge that would 17 mimic what the children should have learned in the 18 class. 19 On the surface, standardized tests look like 20 a good way to compare children. The scores are 21 quantitative and they seem objective. 22 However, these tests lack one essential 23 requirement: They don't have a standard unit of 24 measurement. 25 When we weigh children or measure their 1 heights, the inches and pounds have a preset unit. 2 We've no preset unit for learning. 3 This means that the scores are arbitrary, 4 and, are a somewhat shaky basis for making 5 decisions. 6 The American Psychological Association has, 7 it's much stronger than a guideline, it's almost 8 like a law, like a Ten Commandments, or something, 9 not to base a judgment that would affect a person's 10 life solely on the basis of a test. 11 Our commissioner and our legislators are not 12 psychologists. They don't respect that law. 13 Now, there are -- the educational psychology 14 profession has very rigorous standards for how tests 15 can be developed. 16 And as Monty Neill told you, this current 17 bunch of accountability doesn't seem to be following 18 those standards very well, but there are two 19 criteria. 20 Their test has to have validity. 21 You have to know that your interpretation of 22 the score is based on what's really -- what you're 23 really trying to measure. 24 You have to know that it's a kid who's good 25 at this domain, not just good at taking tests in it. 1 The second, reliability. 2 If has -- if this is a good test, it has to 3 get the same result over and over. 4 When we try to assess teachers by the scores 5 their students have earned, we've lost validity. 6 The technical qualities of the standardized 7 tests are measuring the students taking the tests, 8 not their teachers. 9 Prominent educational researchers, whose work 10 I respect a great deal, ten of them issued a 11 statement that "students' scores cannot be 12 aggregated to draw a conclusion about a teacher or a 13 school." 14 That's the professional standard. 15 A teacher can explain, motivate; a teacher 16 cannot control the child's thinking or learning. 17 What about reliability? 18 Doesn't sound professional, but the 19 reliability of these aggregated student scores to 20 judge teachers is awful. 21 One teacher told us, I mean, this is typical, 22 "I've been teaching for years. One year I get 23 40 percentile, the next year I get 80 percentile." 24 Gary Rubenstein at Stuyvesant High, when they 25 published the teachers' scores, did a scatter plot, 1 no correlation at all. 2 You know how, a plot, if there's a 3 correlation, the one factor and the other factor 4 would go up or down, the same way. 5 This came out like a cloud of gray dots on a 6 piece of paper. 7 He found that the same teacher teaching the 8 same subject, different periods in the same 9 semester, no correlation between their scores on one 10 or the other if you aggregated the children's test 11 scores. 12 A study of -- well, a study of five different 13 school districts showed that -- 14 And, this, it's not in my written report 15 because I couldn't pin it down. 16 I have all of the documentation and the 17 citations in the written report. 18 -- but, teachers who scored in the bottom 19 20 percent of the rankings in one year, only 20 to 20 30 percent of them stayed in that. 21 Among the others, 25 to 45 percent were in 22 the top half of the rankings. 23 What about the guys who scored in the top 24 segment? 25 Their scores, the same thing, all over the 1 map, the following year. 2 This is a large study of five school 3 districts. 4 You wouldn't want to make a policy decision 5 based on a statistic that's not reliable. 6 Now, there are a lot of other factors that 7 affect the validity of using student scores to 8 evaluate teachers. 9 For one thing, you can't assume that the 10 difference in the scores are due to the teachers' 11 work unless all the kids are comparable. 12 You know all the kids are never comparable. 13 They differ in the their response to 14 instruction. 15 Some of them are brighter. 16 Some of them have strong backgrounds. 17 Some of them, either by their temperaments or 18 their culture, are more cooperative, or they work 19 harder. 20 You're not going to find comparable students 21 on whom to base the teachers' scores for comparison. 22 One major expert said these figures -- this 23 was his conclusion after a big report on 24 reliability -- you're not really getting a record of 25 how they teach; you're getting a record of who they 1 teach. 2 Could kids' lives outside of school affect 3 the scores? 4 Silly question. 5 The Coleman Report, in 1966, found that 6 two-thirds of the variance in kids' achievements was 7 due to their home background. 8 Since 1966, study after study, nobody has 9 overturned that. 10 Two-thirds of the variance due to the home 11 background. 12 School factors? 13 Maybe 10 percent, and among that, the teacher 14 is a large part. 15 Of course, the people who talk about the 16 teacher who changed their lives, most of the time, 17 this is somebody who inspired them, who really 18 helped them set higher goals, think better of 19 themselves, that doesn't show up on a standardized 20 test. 21 The person who has -- I was at PS-282 last 22 month, one of the parents, very upset. 23 When I was talking about the tests, he said, 24 the problem he had, the teacher was picking on his 25 kid. 1 I asked, "Were you able to get it resolved?" 2 Yes, he went to the principal, and the 3 principal went to so-and-so, and, yes, they got 4 that -- that doesn't show up on standardized tests 5 either. 6 So, so many factors. 7 Last week, the "Times" had an article about 8 the vocabulary babies. 9 It turns out that the middle-class baby is 10 way ahead of the baby growing up in poverty. 11 Well, there have been a lot of other studies 12 that said that, but this was coming up in the 13 "Times" just when I was writing my testimony for 14 you. 15 So when your APPR wants to judge the teacher 16 by the student scores, I don't buy it, and I don't 17 think the rest of the state should either. 18 One year I got a job teaching psychology at a 19 business school. I was introduced to the work of 20 W. Edward Stemming. 21 Do you know his name? 22 He's the business-management expert that went 23 to Japan, I think in the 1980s, and showed their 24 automakers how to beat out the American automakers. 25 One of my cousins had his statistics class, 1 years, years back, said, "Never met anyone so 2 brilliant." 3 What does Stemmings, the management expert, 4 say? 5 "It is the structure of the organization, 6 rather than the employees alone, which holds the key 7 to improving the quality of output." 8 Now, this is what somebody else was saying. 9 The teacher's effectiveness is dependent on 10 the administration and the resources. 11 The psychologists, the books. 12 Working bathrooms help, too, you know. 13 Science labs, libraries, class size. 14 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Rosalie, I would ask you 15 if you could -- 16 ROSALIE FRIEND: I'll just add one more, 17 because this is a very touching one. 18 When you hear about the "Campbell Effect," 19 Donald Campbell was my professor's professor. 20 When my professor was able to bring him to 21 speak to us, you never saw anybody so proud in your 22 life. 23 And, Campbell worked with the war on poverty, 24 to figure out how to assess which programs were 25 successful. 1 He had a lot of trouble because he's very 2 idealistic people. 3 If their livelihoods were at stake, they 4 would change their practices so that their scores 5 would come out well, even if it wasn't good for 6 their clients, because they needed to keep their 7 jobs. 8 He found the same thing among surgeons. 9 And when he visited a factory that made 10 nails, he found: If they counted how many, they 11 made little ones, lots of them. If they counted how 12 much weight, they made a few big ones. 13 His conclusion? 14 That attaching high stakes to an evaluation 15 leads to the distortion of the processes that are 16 being evaluated. 17 So with the weight of all of this evidence, 18 I urge you to withdraw from -- New York State to 19 withdraw from Race to the Top, and at least from the 20 evaluation component of the Common Core. 21 The state assess -- these high-stakes 22 assessments are leading to numbers that are not 23 valid, are not reliable; that are arbitrary. 24 Why should we spend time on them? 25 Let's spend time on small classes, good 1 libraries, reading recovery, and, of course, as 2 Nancy Cauthen mentioned, ending income inequality. 3 Thank you. 4 [Applause.] 5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Still very excited about 6 teaching. 7 ROSALIE FRIEND: Yes, you know, I've been 8 interested in schools since -- when I was in 9 high school, the civil rights movement was a big 10 deal, and I wasn't brave. 11 I couldn't go down to the south, so 12 I thought, maybe I could help people by teaching. 13 I thought if they could learn to read, maybe 14 they could get ahead. 15 When I retired, and I went to see my 16 State Assemblyman about all of this public school 17 stuff, I said, "I'm retired and working on school 18 issues." 19 He said, "You've always been working on 20 school issues." 21 And, I get kind of discouraged, but I think 22 it's so important. 23 You heard people talking about the children 24 who were crying. 25 What about the teachers who are crying? 1 When you're responsible for the little guys, 2 and they have to take these tests now, the 3 pre-tests, so that the teachers can be evaluated, 4 and they ask the teacher for help. 5 This is why these teachers went into 6 teaching. 7 They're asking for help, and the teachers 8 have to say, No, I can't help you on this? 9 I can't tell you how many of these preschool 10 teachers are heartbroken. 11 Thank you. 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you very much. 13 Appreciate it. 14 Next we have John Owens, Fred Smith, and 15 Nicholas Lawrence. 16 JOHN OWENS: I'm John Owens, by the way. 17 Thank you, Senator Flanagan. 18 Yeah, my name is John Owens, and I'm the 19 author of a book that recently came out called 20 "Confessions of a Bad Teacher: The Shocking Truth 21 from the Front Lines of American Public Education." 22 Several years ago, I left a job as a 23 senior vice president and editorial director of a 24 major magazine company, because I wanted to give 25 back; I wanted to teach. 1 I thought that there were poor kids out there 2 who might be able to use what I could offer them. 3 And I had heard that in New York City, 4 40 percent of the residents are immigrants. 5 And I realized that, you know, I had gone to 6 public schools, and I had teachers who helped me 7 become who I became, and, who helped me to become a 8 good citizen, who showed me the promise and the 9 greatness of America. 10 And I thought that I could do the same thing. 11 And so, in this great naive fit, I left 12 publishing, went to graduate school for a year, and 13 got a job teaching in the South Bronx, at a public 14 school in the South Bronx. 15 The school modeled itself as an absolute 16 model of school reform. 17 It was one of Mayor Bloomberg's small 18 schools. It had 350 students, from 8 to 12 were the 19 grades, and it was on the third floor of an old 20 elementary school. 21 When I got there, I was heartbroken. 22 What passes for school reform is not 23 education as I knew it going to school; is not 24 education that you knew when you went to school. 25 What we were doing to these kids, is we were 1 turning this into a test-prep factory. 2 That's what the school had become. 3 The kids had nothing but what were called 4 "academics," but the academics weren't really 5 teaching them anything that they could use, it was 6 just stuff so they could take tests. 7 They did not have art. 8 They did not have music, except for a 9 boombox, a couple drums, and some beaded gourds that 10 were kept in a locked closet in the basement next to 11 the teachers' restroom. 12 That was the music department. 13 Okay? 14 These kids had -- they had no choir, they had 15 no chorus, they had no band; they had nothing else. 16 But we had test prep, and we had data. 17 We had so much data, that when I was an 18 executive dealing with budgets of millions of 19 dollars, I did not have to deal with as many 20 spreadsheets as I did when I had 120 eighth- and 21 ninth-graders in the South Bronx. 22 The spreadsheets were just unbelievable. 23 Each week, I had to put in 2,000 points of 24 data for these kids. 25 Not just -- not just attendance and homework 1 and class participation, and stuff like that, but we 2 had to put in stuff like, unity of being, and 3 self-determination. 4 Okay? 5 And the idea was, was to have so much data, 6 so much data, that we could prove anything; or more 7 importantly, that the administration could prove 8 anything. 9 And what they wanted us to prove was that 10 these kids were passing, that they had good 11 scholarship reports -- you know, those were the 12 numbers that were issued by the Department of 13 Education -- and that we would have good, high 14 graduation rates. 15 And so when you say these kids are going to 16 college and not being able to read, well, of course, 17 we were graduating them. 18 Okay? 19 I have never seen in my life any system that 20 was so corrupt, from the bottom to the very top. 21 What the mission was, was you were an 22 ineffective teacher if 80 percent of your kids did 23 not pass. 24 Okay? 25 Well, then, if you didn't pass 80 percent of 1 your kids, you were saddled with so much work, that 2 you were sorry you didn't pass 80 percent of your 3 kids. 4 So I said to one of my colleagues, I said, 5 Well, I mean, I have kids who have done no work. 6 He says, "Do the math." 7 And so I passed 81.86 percent of my kids. 8 I got a letter from the assistant principal, 9 congratulating me on passing so many. 10 It was the only positive thing I had in my 11 personnel file during my career at the New York City 12 public schools. 13 Because the system, when I say it's corrupt, 14 not only do you have to massage the data, okay, and 15 sometimes just make it up, or make a kid who doesn't 16 do any schoolwork an absolute genius of unity of 17 being, okay, 55 is the new zero. 18 Now, I don't know if it's common knowledge, 19 but the Department of Education does not say what 20 the grading policies are at each school. 21 But what they do is, they leave it up to the 22 schools. 23 And so many schools, including the school 24 I was at, made it that you could not give a kid a 25 grade lower than 55. 1 So a kid who did nothing, I mean, I mean 2 nothing but come to class, got a 55, all right, not 3 a zero. 4 I had kids who had single-digit averages, but 5 when it came time for report cards, they got a 55. 6 Because if you have six marking periods, and 7 you have some really creative rounding, and you have 8 some really good unity of being, that kid with the 9 55 can pass. 10 Now, you're talking about a very, very 11 corrupt system. 12 And what we're doing, is we're letting the 13 spreadsheet run our educational system. 14 And it is just, it is really criminal what 15 we're doing. 16 We're taking away the education that you had, 17 the education that I had, and we're saying that 18 today's kids don't deserve that, because it's not 19 efficient, because it costs too much. 20 Well, the fact is, you can raise the 21 standards as high as you want, but unless you're 22 gonna teach the kids to that standard, and give them 23 the information and the encouragement and the basic 24 educational experience that they need, they're never 25 going to really reach it. 1 But we can reach it on the spreadsheets, and 2 we will. 3 I mean, what I saw, I wrote about my school 4 after I left, and just days after that, the 5 principal and assistant principal were escorted out 6 by the Department of Education. 7 But I was talking to a reporter today, that 8 even people who make up the data and get blown out 9 as principals, still remain in the system. 10 They can't get rid of them. 11 And, so, this whole corruption, it's just, 12 it's systemic. 13 And it is really a sad, sad thing that we're 14 seeing. 15 [Applause.] 16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. Smith. 17 FRED SMITH: Thank you. 18 My name is Fred Smith. I worked for the 19 New York City Public School System, and I started 20 out in the testing department, and have been 21 following testing for a long time. 22 As a matter of fact, the last time I actually 23 testified, and the only other time I testified, was 24 at the Truth and Testing hearings in 1980 that was 25 sponsored by Senator LaValle. 1 And I want to get back to that point later, 2 which would be to suggest that, that scenario, we 3 need to really push and put in some teeth. 4 The thing about the Common Core, is that 5 what's happening now is testing. 6 The tests that were given in April of 2013, 7 just a few months ago, have been put forward as 8 being the foundation, or the baseline, against which 9 progress is going to be measured in the future. 10 From my background in testing, I can tell 11 you, that is a very shaky foundation, and if you 12 were going to build a house on this foundation, it 13 would be condemned. 14 The problem is this: 15 The tests that were given in April of 2013 16 were based on stand-alone field tests that were 17 given in June of 2012. 18 Now, I want to backtrack to explain why 19 that's a problem. 20 From 2006 to 2009, McGraw-Hill was the test 21 publisher, and the test scores kept going up and up 22 and up. 23 And, finally, in 2009, they've got to such a 24 ridiculous height that the Regents, in the person of 25 Chancellor Tisch, said this is not plausible. 1 So she said that she was going to go forward 2 with the reform, and she was going to make testing 3 tougher. 4 That meant that the next year, sure enough, 5 the test scores dropped precipitously. 6 But, in 2009, when they reached those 7 heights, reporters actually started asking technical 8 questions which they usually regard as too arcane to 9 ask. 10 They asked: How could this happen that the 11 scores kept going up? 12 And one of the answers, and the main answer 13 that was given, was given by the State's testing 14 expert at the time. 15 He said it was because the stand-alone field 16 testing produced invalid or unreliable information, 17 and that was the technique or approach that was 18 taken that led up to 2009. 19 What is "stand-alone field testing"? 20 "Stand-alone field testing" is something 21 where you're trying out items, and students are 22 taking these items, and based on the statistics that 23 are generated, what happens is, you have a large 24 crop of items, you pick out the better ones, the 25 ones that look promising. 1 The flaw in stand-alone field testing is that 2 the children taking those tryout tests don't really 3 care about their performance. They're not 4 motivated. 5 Those data don't count. 6 So what was happening was, in 2009, you had 7 items that were looking more difficult, based on the 8 stand-alone field tests, than they really were when 9 they were going to be put into operational use. 10 But the cut scores had already been set, 11 because it appeared that these items were more 12 difficult, so the cut scores were dropped. 13 So you had two things happening: 14 Easier items: Easy items that looked hard 15 and the cut score that was lower, the results shoot 16 up. 17 Okay, I had graphs to present, but I don't 18 know how to do PowerPoint, or -- so I'll have to go 19 forward without them. 20 You have to trust me on it. 21 What you have is this big drop in 2010. 22 Children who were classified in the low end 23 of the distribution in 2008, suddenly, that tail end 24 disappeared because everybody was moving up based on 25 the low cutoff scores. 1 So, suddenly, you had a drop of about 20,000, 2 24,000 students who were now, the year before, had 3 been defined as having severe learning problems. 4 In 2009, when they disappeared, did they no 5 longer have the severe learning problems? 6 When they disappeared, was it right for an 7 unnamed politician to say, See, look what happened? 8 My promotional policies made kids who were held back 9 the year before, now we don't have any children 10 being held back before? 11 It seems like people were exploiting these 12 weaknesses in the testing program. 13 Okay, fast-forward to 2013. 14 2012, we had the same situation: we did 15 stand-alone field testing. 16 Not only were they stand-alone field tests, 17 they were given in June of 2012; the worst time of 18 year to measure kids on tests that don't count, 19 children who have been taking tests all year, who 20 had it up to here with tests, and now you're going 21 to develop items based on the statistics that you're 22 gonna get in June. 23 That is the foundation, in 2013, that just 24 was given, that's your foundation for how you're 25 going forward with Common Core. 1 And now, don't forget, in June of 2013, right 2 after they gave the operational tests, they've done 3 more stand-alone field testing, so we can do 4 June 2014, and now we're going to compare that 5 against this shaky baseline. 6 So my point is, basically, what's been done 7 is a nonstarter. 8 Testing people, such as Pearson, know that 9 this can't work, and they've gone forward. 10 They just have a contract -- their contract 11 was just extended by $2.8 million, an amendment, 12 that was just given to them for reasons that have 13 not been specified. It's in the State Comptroller's 14 open-book database. 15 The whole situation is being run by the State 16 Education Department with the publisher. 17 The parents are never informed ahead of time 18 about these field tests. 19 As people have said before, should not 20 parents have some say in what's happening? 21 This is an experimental use of the tests. 22 You're putting children in a situation where 23 they're serving as subjects to develop a product. 24 And that seems, definitely, something that 25 parents should want to know about, and should be 1 informed about. 2 I would urge this Panel, as one of the things 3 that could be done, is to make sure that parents are 4 notified ahead of time about the stand-alone field 5 testing which continues, and that they have a right 6 to withhold consent if they feel like it. 7 It's not a mandatory -- the field testing is 8 not mandatory. 9 A memo was just issued in August of 2013, 10 saying, that this coming year, in the spring, we're 11 gonna have two rounds of stand-alone field testing: 12 One for the PARCC, and one for the ELA and math that 13 have been given. 14 And by the way, Pearson is involved with 15 PARCC, and is also involved with the statewide tests 16 that were just given. 17 So, my -- that's my pitch, basically. 18 The city council voted unanimously in May 19 that there should be an immediate cessation of 20 stand-alone field testing. 21 That's how strongly they felt. 22 I guess it doesn't have any binding effect, 23 but, I'm pointing towards some of the things that 24 need to be done to get us out of this cycle and 25 allow other methods of assessing children to come to 1 the fore. 2 Multiple-choice testing is not the only way 3 to go. It's a limited -- it has limited value. 4 There are other methods. 5 By steamrolling us into this Common Core, 6 whatever it is, framework, we're being pushed 7 forward without a chance to reflect on some of the 8 problems that have led up to it. 9 I thank you. 10 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Fred, I'm getting a little 11 nervous. I understood the whole explanation you 12 just gave. 13 FRED SMITH: That makes me nervous. 14 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Scoot that microphone over 15 so we can hear Mr. Lawrence. 16 SENATOR TKACZYK: I'm just going to 17 apologize, I have to leave. 18 But, thank you all, and I will read 19 everything. 20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Nicholas, what do you 21 teach? 22 NICHOLAS LAWRENCE: I teach eighth grade 23 U.S. History, and a college rep elective to 24 eleventh-graders in the South Bronx. 25 I would like to thank you for your time 1 today. 2 I -- when I heard that this opportunity was 3 opening up, I -- and that a few teachers would been 4 to the panel, I was excited to join everybody here 5 today. 6 I know you've been here for a long time, and 7 that a lot of smart people have had a lot to say. 8 SENATOR FLANAGAN: So have you. 9 NICHOLAS LAWRENCE: Yeah, I've been here 10 since -- I've heard everybody but Shael speak, and 11 I took the first lunch break of the school year, to 12 miss him, so, thanks for that. 13 So I'm going to keep this as concise as an 14 eighth-grade history lecture. 15 I teach at East Bronx Academy in the 16 South Bronx. I've been there for six years. 17 I'm the education -- an Educators for 18 Excellence member, a UFT lead teacher. I coach my 19 whole history department there. 20 And, every day in the classroom, I live 21 ed reform, all the things that people have talked 22 about today, with Common Core, with teacher 23 evaluation. To a certain degree, with student 24 privacy. 25 And I wanted to talk more about what is going 1 well with it, than things that are going terribly 2 wrong. 3 Two things that I think are very important 4 changes in my school, and in the state, are teacher 5 evaluation and Common Core curriculum 6 implementation. 7 I'll start with teacher evaluation. 8 I think that all real professionals are 9 evaluated by their administrators or bosses, or 10 whoever is in charge of them. 11 And I think that the only thing that's been 12 proven to increase student learn outcomes and 13 improve education, is to increase teacher quality. 14 So I think that implementing a 15 teacher-evaluation system is really important, and 16 improving the one we have is very important. 17 I feel lucky to be part of a school where my 18 principal and the leadership team which I'm on has 19 worked for the last year already. 20 It's their second year implementing a 21 teacher-evaluation system based on a rubric. 22 We used Kim Marshall's rubric last year for 23 teacher evaluation. 24 And, I think that it was really helpful for 25 our school. 1 I think that it shifted the culture from one 2 of satisfactory to unsatisfactory; a mentality that, 3 if I get an S at the end of year, whatever I'm doing 4 is fine, and that's okay, to one of targeted goals 5 and teacher improvement, on where teachers feel like 6 they can improve, and they know what to improve on, 7 and that is then handed down to students as well. 8 I think that there's certainly drawbacks to 9 the system, and I think that the amount of 10 testing -- people talked about that today -- there's 11 a whole lot. 12 Performance assessments took up a lot of my 13 team's time so far this year. 14 And I think that things need to be revisited 15 and talked about, but I do support the 16 teacher-evaluation system, and I think that we 17 should move forward with it. 18 In terms of Common Core state standards, 19 I do -- I am a supporter of them. 20 I know that the NEA had a poll recently that 21 said 75 percent of teachers support Common Core 22 state standards, and I'm certainly one of them. 23 I know that they have bipartisan support 24 federally -- or, nationally, and that 45 states have 25 accepted them. 1 So I think that, personally, on the school 2 level, it has helped me to restructure my history 3 curriculum. 4 I have two degrees in education, and I did 5 not learn incredibly well how to teach writing, and 6 I went to one of best schools of education in the 7 country. 8 And I think that having a very structured 9 writing curriculum has been really helpful to me, 10 personally, and to my history department. 11 So I -- like I said, I coach all of my 12 history teachers, and we have -- we meet twice a 13 week to talk about how we can improve our writing 14 instruction, and our instruction across the 15 seven grades that are in my school. 16 And I think that having a framework like this 17 has been very helpful instead of restricting. 18 I think that there are challenges, too, of 19 course. 20 I think that there's been a lack of training 21 on how to do it. 22 We were one of the -- we're an 23 early-implementation school by choice. 24 We knew they were coming down the pike, and 25 I think that we grabbed them and tried to start 1 implementing them without much training at all 2 before they were part of the citywide instructional 3 expectations last year and this year, which we've 4 adhered to, and we've worked really hard to adhere 5 to. 6 I do think that what some people said about 7 the target moving was pertinent. 8 The first grade of eighth-graders that I had 9 last year, that ever heard about the Common Core, of 10 course, are not as versed in what that means, and 11 have not had the writing instruction that my 12 eighth-graders this year do. 13 My the next [unintelligible] eighth-graders 14 will also have different experience with the 15 Common Core. 16 And I think that that is something to think 17 about in terms of the challenges that teachers are 18 dealing with. 19 Again, we deal with a lot of testing. 20 The performance assessments assess one thing, 21 while the Regents assess other things, and that's 22 been a big debate in my school between the history 23 department. 24 We have test-prep teachers who teach to the 25 Regents exam which tests different things than the 1 performance assessments that rolled out this year. 2 So -- and while improving writing instruction 3 through the Common Core state standards will 4 certainly help with the Regents, they do test -- 5 they teach you different things because the tests 6 are about different things. 7 So, I think that that is also a difficulty 8 that we've experienced. 9 In spite of that, I think that, in spite of 10 the difficulties with teacher evaluation and 11 Common Core state standards, I think that they are 12 two very important things for improving teacher 13 quality in this state, and I think that that is the 14 thing that we need to work on, as a state, and as a 15 city. 16 And I know, in my school, that's what I want 17 to work on with my teachers, and on myself, 18 honestly. 19 I do feel very fortunate to work where I do; 20 I really love my job. 21 And I think that -- I know that other 22 teachers don't feel that way necessarily about the 23 schools they teach in. 24 But, I think it's important to open up this 25 conversation about teacher evaluation by having 1 it -- that system in place, so that teachers who 2 don't feel as comfortable going to their 3 administration have the opportunity to have this 4 conversation with their administrators. 5 I think that's really the only way that those 6 teachers are going to get better, and that community 7 is going to get better, from their perspective. 8 So, to sum it all up: 9 I wish I had, like, a really delightful 10 soundbite for you, but I don't, and I just really 11 hope we move forward with these things, with input 12 from teachers, from administrators, from students, 13 and from parents. 14 So I want to thank you for your time. 15 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay, so we're going to -- 16 gentlemen, you're gonna have to sit for one second, 17 because I do have one question for each of you. 18 We have to change the tape again, so nobody 19 move. 20 All right? 21 We're not going anywhere. 22 [Pause in the hearing.] 23 [The hearing resumed, as follows:] 24 FRED SMITH: [Inaudible] I'm going to be 25 brief: One of the things that happened in 2013, in 1 the test, the people were saying how kids didn't 2 have enough time to complete the tests, because they 3 were harder. 4 When I studied the actual structure of the 5 tests, the amount of time allotted per item, between 6 2013 and 2012, there were less minutes allotted on 7 the Core-aligned tests, which is completely 8 inconsistent with the concept that this is going 9 measure critical-thinking, deeper grasp of math 10 concepts, et cetera. 11 So, it seems perverse, but, I think, again, 12 it's the field testing that's so inadequate that's 13 building these tests, that become the foundation 14 because, quote, of what's going to come in the 15 future. 16 And I need to thank you for letting me get 17 that point in. 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. 19 Same question to each of you, and if you can 20 do it each in one minute, great; I asked this to a 21 couple other people: 22 If you could change something -- that you all 23 have unique, similar but disparate backgrounds, so, 24 Fred, start with you: If you could change, what 25 would you change? 1 FRED SMITH: I would want truth, a greater 2 transparency, and some real pressure on the 3 State Education Department, because I've seen, over 4 the years, less and less information coming out of 5 them. 6 I think they're acting arrogantly, because 7 nobody ever seems to be able to get the information. 8 If it comes, it comes late, when it's too 9 late to do anything with. 10 And I would really, if I had to be fixated on 11 something, that would be what I would be concerned 12 about. 13 NICHOLAS LAWRENCE: I think there's a lot of 14 things, but the one that's been on my mind recently, 15 is the measures of student learning, and what a 16 "local measure" means. 17 I think that we spent a lot of time, the 18 state, certifying teachers, and, I think we need to 19 trust them in school communities to develop local 20 measures of student learning, either at the school 21 level or the district level, to show what 22 specialized schools have to offer, to show what 23 teachers can do. 24 And, if we already have 20 percent that's a 25 state exam, we have -- that's a value-added exam 1 that could show us one element of education. 2 And I think that it's really great that the 3 teacher rubric is 60 percent. 4 And I think that last section really needs to 5 be from the community that that school is in. 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you. 7 John. 8 JOHN OWENS: The one lesson I think that I -- 9 one thing I could change, it would be to let the 10 public know that education can't be done cheaply. 11 It's expensive. 12 To do it right, it's expensive. 13 This notion that we can do it efficiently, 14 that we can do it with the way that managers run 15 corporations, it's not true. 16 It's -- I was a widget-maker myself for 17 30 years, and I got to tell you, in the classroom, 18 they're not widgets. 19 You have kids who have all sorts of 20 backgrounds. 21 I had -- one of my eighth-grade classes, I 22 had a third of the kids who would have been 23 classified as special-ed kids anyplace else; and, 24 yet, we swept it under the rug in my school. 25 They just had me. 1 And you know what my special-ed training was? 2 "Don't yell at the kids." 3 That was my special-ed training. 4 And, so, we have to understand that to 5 educate these kids, it's expensive. 6 It's labor-intensive. 7 There's no shortcuts. 8 There really are no shortcuts. 9 It's an ugly truth that we have to get our 10 brains around. 11 And I know that Mayor Bloomberg, who loves 12 spreadsheets, and loves efficiency, and just loves 13 to make that data work, he believes you can do it 14 efficiently. Bill Gates, too. 15 You can't, it's not doable. 16 You're dealing with kids. 17 [Applause.] 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Gentlemen, thank you very 19 much. 20 I appreciate your patience, like everyone 21 else. 22 Okay, so is Ellen McHugh still here? 23 All right, I have 24 Dr. Ruth Powers Silverberg. 25 DR. RUTH POWERS: My loyal friends who stuck 1 this out with me. 2 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I'm gratified to see that 3 you have since taken your jacket off, so you 4 probably went from freezing to semi-comfortable. 5 DR. RUTH POWERS: Thank you, I appreciate it. 6 I'm actually quite comfortable. 7 I'm quite settled in. 8 My name is Dr. Ruth Powers Silverberg. I'm 9 a professor at the College of Staten Island in the 10 School of Education, which you may know is one of 11 the CUNY colleges. 12 And, so, before I give my very brief 13 comments, because so much has already been covered, 14 I just want to share a little story with you that 15 relates to something that one of the other speakers 16 said about what happens in community colleges, and 17 why we sometimes get the impression that the schools 18 are not doing their jobs. 19 At our graduation every year, we have a 20 tradition, where the president of the college, after 21 all of the graduates have done their standing up by 22 programs, you know, "All the people who majored in 23 this, stand up," because it's a huge graduation, the 24 last thing they do, is the president asks all of the 25 students who were the first person in their family 1 to graduate from college, to stand. 2 And it's about two-thirds of the students who 3 stand up. 4 They sit down, and then he says, "Okay, if 5 you've been going to college while holding a 6 full-time job, please stand." 7 And it's more than half. 8 "If you've been raising at least one child 9 while you've been going to college, please stand." 10 Now, every year -- I have been there 11 12 years, every year, I turn around, I watch that, 12 and I cry, because I am so happy to be part of a 13 public university where our goal is to make college 14 accessible for anyone. 15 And if we have to do a little more teaching 16 them how to read, and teaching them how to write, 17 I'm okay with that. 18 I would love it if the K-12 system could do 19 it better, but, right now, it can't. 20 And the things that it's doing to try to make 21 it so that it can, are the wrong things. 22 I started my career as a teacher, as a pre-K 23 teacher, and then I became a music teacher, which 24 I did for 25 years, and loved. 25 And then I became an assistant principal, and 1 then I became a professor of leadership. 2 And the reason I made all those transitions, 3 was because I started wanting to make the school 4 lives of kids better. 5 Then when I became a music teacher, I was 6 able to do that for more students, because I would 7 be teaching a whole building. 8 Became an assistant principal in an 9 elementary school, I was the one that they sent the 10 kids to, who needed a little extra. 11 In other words, you know, I got the bad kids, 12 who were always my favorites. 13 And then I wanted to be a professor, because 14 I thought I could even expand my influence even 15 more. 16 One of the things that I did in order to 17 prepare for that, was I did a lot of research about 18 what constitutes effective leadership and effective 19 schools. 20 And I don't think anybody would be surprised 21 to find out, that because schools are people, 22 teachers are people, what makes an effective school 23 and effective leadership is nurturing the kinds of 24 relationships that bring people together to talk 25 about how to make things better. 1 In good schools, there's plenty of research 2 about this; about, when they've looked at schools 3 where they actually made improvements, where they 4 actually increased the skills of all students, what 5 they have found, is that all the stakeholders were 6 included in the decision-making, all of the 7 stakeholders were involved in all the changes that 8 took place. 9 And the way those changes took place, was for 10 there to be a collaboration, looking at problems 11 that had been identified by the stakeholders; then 12 collaboration among the professionals to choose a 13 course of action; try that course of action, and 14 then look at whether or not it worked. 15 They didn't look at whether or not it worked 16 based on the test scores. 17 There's not a single school of record that 18 has improved because they did more assessment. 19 And because the test scores don't really 20 measure anything valid, as has been pointed out by 21 so many people, you have a house of cards here. 22 We're constantly using words like 23 "performance," and "achievement," and "effective." 24 And, clearly, at this point in time, what we 25 mean, is how the kids did on the standardized tests. 1 Now, because it's an invalid metric, that 2 means you've got the students built on tests, and 3 then the teachers evaluated based on the students' 4 test, and then you've got the principal who's 5 evaluated by the teachers, by the students' tests, 6 and the whole thing is based on an invalid metric. 7 We don't find out how much kids know when we 8 look at their test scores. 9 We find out how much kids know when we look 10 at their work. 11 Teachers are able to formulate changes in 12 their practice when they look at students' work. 13 Because I prepare school leaders, what I do, 14 is I prepare people who are going to go into school 15 buildings and nurture the kind of practice that 16 I just described. 17 They come to me with visions: they want to 18 make schools better, they want to do things for kids 19 that they weren't able to do themselves. 20 Then, I they to give them a toolkit so that 21 they can do those things, so that they can work with 22 teachers in a collaboration to improve practice. 23 They can write curriculum. 24 Teachers do know how to write curriculum if 25 they're guided by an effective leader. 1 And I give my students all these skills, and 2 they leave so excited to go out there and really 3 make schools better, and then their hearts get 4 broken, because they walk into schools where the 5 only thing anybody is paying attention to, is what 6 kind of test scores their students are getting. 7 So all the wonderful things that they planned 8 on doing, of these joyful environments that they 9 were planning on creating, where kids were going to 10 singing and they were going to be playing in the 11 schoolyard. They were going to walk by a 12 kindergarten classroom and there was going to be a 13 teacher reading aloud to the children. 14 And they're not allowed to do any of those 15 things. 16 Two of my graduates left the education field 17 this past year and went into private industry, 18 because they were so frustrated after teaching for 19 all those years and being so devoted to children, 20 and then they found themselves in a situation where 21 what they were doing was actually causing harm. 22 So my dilemma, and this is what I wrote in my 23 comments, and this is what I would ask you or anyone 24 else: 25 Am I meeting my responsibility to my 1 students, who are paying tuition, if I devote my 2 energy to helping them develop the ability to 3 develop and nurture the kinds of relationships that 4 produce actual real school improvement? 5 Am I doing my job if I teach them that? 6 Or should I be teaching them how to choose 7 test-prep materials; how to keep a school focused on 8 test scores; how to make sure the teachers 9 understand that if the test scores don't go up 10 enough, they're gonna get an ineffective rating and 11 the school's gonna get an ineffective rating, and 12 possibly be closed, which will break up the 13 community that the principal has spent so much time 14 and energy nurturing? 15 What should I be teaching them? 16 Right now, I'm sticking with the former, and 17 I'm not planning on changing, but it's getting more 18 and more difficult. 19 My college is going up on a website, as to my 20 rank compared to other leadership-preparation 21 programs in New York City. 22 My students' value-added or increase in the 23 test scores of the schools where they work is going 24 to be tracked back to my institution, and it's going 25 be on the web -- this is going be starting next 1 year -- so that anybody who wants to become a school 2 leader can look at that list and decide where they 3 want to go to get their preparation. 4 So does that mean that now the pressure's on 5 me to make sure that my students produce good test 6 scores? 7 I won't do that, but that's the way the 8 system is going. 9 You asked a lot of people what's the one 10 thing that you would do. 11 The one thing -- 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I wasn't going to ask you 13 that. 14 DR. RUTH POWERS: You weren't going to ask me 15 that? 16 Well -- 17 [Laughter.] 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Are you kidding? 19 No, you're last, you can pick two. 20 DR. RUTH POWERS: Well, I actually only have 21 one. 22 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. 23 DR. RUTH POWERS: Well, I have two, but one 24 of them is really big; and that is, we should not be 25 involved in Race to the Top at all. 1 All of Race to the Top is based on 2 standardized test scores. 3 Every data point, the longitudinal data 4 system, great teachers and leaders, every component 5 of Race to the Top is based on a false metric. 6 I recognize that that's a very tall order to 7 ask New York State to withdraw from that. 8 However, I would strongly recommend that we 9 completely give up standardized testing as a method 10 of assessment. 11 That we spend -- take the money that we've 12 been spending for the tests, for test prep, for 13 professional development for the tests, all the 14 things that people have talked about today, take a 15 third of that money, give it to schools, compensate 16 teachers to sit together two hours every week after 17 school time. 18 Compensate them to sit down together, to look 19 at their own communities, to look at the data that 20 they get from their students' work, fine-tune their 21 curriculum. 22 Use a third of that money, and just stop 23 using the standardized tests. 24 25 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: On that point, I would 2 assume, which assumptions are always dangerous, that 3 you would agree that the Regents are standardized 4 tests? 5 DR. RUTH POWERS: Yes. 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. 7 And what do you think about the Regents? 8 DR. RUTH POWERS: First of all, I'm primarily 9 a K-5 person, but, I will tell you what my students 10 tell me about the Regents. 11 First of all, they all tell me that, up until 12 very recently, and that's only because they've only 13 told me up until very recently, they found that some 14 students pass the Regents when they didn't really 15 think they knew anything, when they graduated. 16 So, I don't think it was a completely valid 17 measure either. 18 But I do know that the Regents exams were 19 developed by teachers of those content areas across 20 New York State, which makes them, I think, a more 21 sound measure than a standardized test of basic 22 skills that would be coming from a testing company. 23 I believe in teacher-created assessments. 24 ROSALIE FRIEND: We both have some background 25 in testing. We both see the Regents as being 1 different from the standardized tests that come from 2 test-driving companies. 3 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. 4 DR. RUTH POWERS: I wouldn't -- you know, 5 I wouldn't eliminate the Regents. 6 I would eliminate the -- 7 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay, this is part of the 8 stuff that we grapple with in an abstract way, and 9 in a micro-way, because I've asked this question on 10 a number of occasions, about the people who talk 11 about over-testing. 12 Okay, so what are the tests? 13 Certainly we can agree, everyone knows, 14 conceptually, and fundamentally, what the Regents 15 are. 16 But a lot of this is figuring out, what is a 17 "standardized test"; how do you define that? 18 What's the difference between that and an 19 assessment -- performance assessment? 20 So, for us, as elected officials, we have to 21 have, I think, the wherewithal, and, frankly, the -- 22 well, this is a talent; talent to listen to people 23 who actually do the work, because, in large part, 24 we're generalists. 25 You know, the work that we're charged with, 1 that we have so many different subject areas, 2 I would never for a New York minute suggest that 3 I know about -- as much about educational policy as 4 you do, and many of the other speakers. 5 But, we have to kind of synthesize all that 6 and, hopefully, come up with some recommendations. 7 DR. RUTH POWERS: I would say that you're 8 doing exactly the thing that I described as an 9 effective organization with an effective leader. 10 Stakeholders sit down, they look at the 11 issues together, they try to formulate solutions 12 together, then they come back together to find out 13 whether or not it worked. 14 You are doing exactly the thing that 15 I described that I'm trying to teach my students to 16 do. 17 And nobody is giving us a test at the end of 18 the day today to figure out whether or not we did it 19 right. 20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I'm gonna have a test 21 figuring out which subway I'm going to be taking 22 after I get out of here. 23 DR. RUTH POWERS: Okay. 24 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Anyway, listen, we are 25 formally done for the day. 1 This is the fourth out of five hearings. 2 I deeply appreciate people who have stayed, 3 the respect that everyone accorded each other. 4 If you want to submit other written comments, 5 certainly, everything that was put in today will be 6 made part of the record, but, if people want 7 additional comments, you have the flexibility to do 8 that. 9 And I hope everyone has a safe trip home. 10 DR. RUTH POWERS: I also want to thank you 11 for giving the minute of silence for the victims of 12 "Sandy." 13 A year ago, I had a beautiful little house by 14 the beach on Staten Island. 15 I don't have it anymore. 16 So today was a conflict for me, coming here, 17 or staying and being with my community. 18 So thank you for acknowledging it. 19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Well, you're more than 20 welcome. 21 Thank you for being here. 22 And let me thank Senator Felder for his 23 perseverance, among other things. 24 [Applause.] 25 ROSALIE FRIEND: Thank you both for the 1 opportunity. 2 (Whereupon, at approximately 3:56 p.m., 3 the public hearing held before the New York State 4 Senate Standing Committee on Education concluded, 5 and adjourned.) 6 ---oOo--- 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25