Public Hearing the Regents Reform Agenda: "Assessing" Our Progress

1 BEFORE THE NEW YORK STATE SENATE

STANDING COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION 2 ------------------------------------------------------ 3 PUBLIC HEARING 4 THE REGENTS REFORM AGENDA: "ASSESSING" OUR PROGRESS 5 ------------------------------------------------------ 6

Van Buren Hearing Room A 7 Legislative Office Building

Albany, New York 12247 8

November 13, 2013 9 10:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. 10 11

PRESIDING:12

Senator John J. Flanagan 13 Chair 14 15 16 SENATE MEMBERS PRESENT: 17 Senator Patricia Ritchie 18 Senator James L. Seward 19 Senator Cecilia Tkaczyk 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 SPEAKERS: PAGE QUESTIONS 2 Ken Slentz 7 12

Deputy Commissioner for the 3 Office of P-12 Education

New York State Education Department/ 4 New York State Board of Regents 5 Kathleen Ferguson 66 76

2012 New York State Teacher of the Year 6 Schenectady City School District 7 Steve Allinger 66 76

Director of Legislation 8 New York State United Teachers 9 Mark Schneiderman 85 94

Senior Director of Education Policy 10 Software & Information

Industry Association 11

Sheila Kaplan 101 12 Founder

Education New York 13

Robert Reidy 114 124 14 Executive Director

Robert Lowery 15 Deputy Director

New York State Council of 16 School Superintendents 17 Margarita Garcia-Notario, Ph.D. 133

Dept. of Modern Languages and Cultures 18 SUNY Plattsburgh

Parent Representative of 19 North Country Schools 20 Heather Briccetti 144 149

President & CEO 21 New York State Business Council 22 John Yagielsi 151 159

Chair 23 Education Conference Board 24 Tim Farley 168

Principal 25 Ichabod Crane Elementary School 1 SPEAKERS (Continued): PAGE QUESTIONS 2 Kathryn Brown 168

English Teacher 3 Morrisonville, New York 4 Doug Selwyn 188 193

College Professor 194 206 5 State University of New York

at Plattsburgh 6

Wendy Richards 188 193 7 Doctoral Student 194 206

D'Youville College 8

Bill Wolfe 208 220 9 Executive Director at LaSalle

(Albany, New York) 10 President of the New York State

Coalition of 853 Schools 11

Claire Sylvan 208 220 12 (No position announced)

International Network for 13 Public Schools 14 Dr. Brenda Myers 222 228

Superintendent 229 247 15 Valhalla Union Free School District 16 Judith Johnson 222 228

Interim Superintendent 229 247 17 Mount Vernon School District 18

Stephen Jambor 251 258 19 Vice President

Westchester-Putnam School Boards Assoc. 20

Sheena Hervey 251 258 21 Chief Academic Advocation Officer 261

Generation Ready 22 Also, Senior Literacy Advisor

for the NYS Department of 23 Education, Middle School

Quality Initiative 24 25 ---oOo--- 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Good morning, everyone, 2 and thank you very much for being here today. 3 Just so -- in case anyone is not aware, 4 obviously, this is the fifth hearing that we've had 5 on the Regents Reform Agenda, and the theme, or the 6 themes, have been Common Core testing and privacy, 7 and, I think most of the people who have attended 8 and/or listened paid attention. 9 We have had a great cross-section of people 10 testifying; a lot of robust dialogue. 11 I keep hearing that word, and I start using 12 it myself. 13 I think good open discussion. 14 This is the fifth and final hearing that 15 we're having. 16 We had Long Island, Syracuse, Buffalo, and 17 New York City, spaced two weeks apart. 18 I want to reiterate a couple of things. 19 First of all, I want to thank everybody who 20 works for the Senate again. 21 This is, we're on their home base, but they 22 do a great job taking care of all the technical 23 stuff so that people can see, and that we can get a 24 record of this hearing as quickly as possible, and 25 that is extremely helpful because people want to see 1 what's out there. 2 I would remind everyone that all the 3 testimony that we have received previously and the 4 videos from the prior hearings are all up online, 5 and have been up online. 6 The testimony that is before us today is also 7 online, and all the emails and written comments that 8 we have received independent of the hearings have 9 been put up online as well. 10 We made it clear that we would take comments 11 until this Friday -- this Friday being the 15th of 12 November -- just in case anyone wanted to comment on 13 what happened or what was said today at this 14 hearing. 15 And, my expectation is that we will put 16 together a full record as quickly as possible, 17 forward that to SED, the Regents, and the Governor, 18 and I think have a number of conversations between 19 and amongst our colleagues, both in the Republican 20 and the Democratic Conferences, as well as with our 21 colleagues in the Assembly. 22 I would remind everyone, too, that the Senate 23 embarked on this adventure early in the summer by 24 announcing that we were having these hearings once 25 school started, and we are the only entity that has 1 had full formal hearing on this. 2 That's why I think the record is going to be 3 extremely important for looking at what we may do, 4 what we could possibly recommend, and how we can 5 make valuable progress. 6 And, I'll just add one or two other things. 7 We're going to hear today; I just had a 8 chance to meet the 2012 Teacher of the Year. 9 So, to me, and I'm no different than anyone 10 here, there's nothing more important than having a 11 good effective teacher in front of the classroom. 12 And our ultimate goal, of course, is about 13 students and children. 14 And, I attended a forum last night in my own 15 district, that was very well attended, and, again, 16 no shortage of opinions, and no matter where you go, 17 whether it's Senator Ritchie's area or 18 Senator Tkaczyk's area, parents want the same thing: 19 They want a really good opportunity for a 20 good quality education for their children. 21 And, that's what we're hoping to try to 22 achieve. 23 So having said that, we do -- I'm going to 24 ask if, Senator Tkaczyk, if everyone would stand, 25 and she can lead us in the pledge of allegiance. 1 2 (All participating in and present at the 3 hearing recite, as follows:) 4 "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the 5 United States of America and to the Republic for 6 which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, 7 with liberty and justice for all." 8 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you very much. 9 And on that note, our first person to testify 10 is Ken Slentz from the State Education Department. 11 And, Ken, you know the drill, but I'm going 12 to repeat it. 13 You see the signs in the front here. 14 All the written testimony is in. 15 I am imploring people to summarize their 16 testimony, hit the high points. 17 We can all read, and we can -- we'd rather 18 have discussions and questions back and forth. 19 So, I'll just let everyone know in advance, 20 if you start reading your testimony, I'm going to 21 ask you to stop and just hit the high points. 22 Ken, thank you. 23 KEN SLENTZ: Well noted, Senator. 24 Thank you. 25 And thanks for the opportunity, to you and to 1 the members of the Senate. 2 My name is Ken Slentz. I'm the 3 deputy commissioner for the Office of P-12 Education 4 of the State Education Department, and I'm 5 testifying on behalf of Commissioner King, who is on 6 Long Island doing school visits, and will attend 7 another forum this evening. 8 Prior to coming to the department, I was a 9 school-district superintendent, a principal, 10 a curriculum coordinator, a teacher, and a teaching 11 assistant, so it's from that vantage point that 12 I bring that experience to the work that we're doing 13 and to the focus that you've heard from some of my 14 colleagues, and certainly some of the members of our 15 board, that really sits at the heart of the 16 Reform Agenda. 17 And, again, that's from our individual and 18 our collective experiences that too few of our 19 students are graduating college- and career-ready 20 today. 21 Our graduation rate is a laudable 74 percent 22 in New York State; however, of that number, far too 23 few are actually able -- because of the knowledge 24 and skills gap that they have, are able to attend 25 credit-bearing first-year college courses. 1 They are not able to get the skill-required 2 jobs, many of which are available here in 3 New York State. 4 There are a number of concerns that we have 5 relative to what our students can do. 6 And, so, the board embarked on the 7 Reform Agenda in 2009, with that as the focal point, 8 ensuring that all students are college- and 9 career-ready. 10 Sitting at the heart of this was a very 11 natural first step: we had to take a look at the 12 expectations that we had set to see if they were the 13 appropriate expectations. 14 Upon that analysis, the board determined that 15 they were, in fact, not the right expectations for 16 what students needed to know and be able to do in 17 the twenty-first century; and hence the adoption of 18 the Common Core Standards. 19 The adoption was a very logical approach to 20 this because, unlike standards movements in the 21 past, these standards were actually back-mapped from 22 what was expected of students in college and career. 23 We worked with various levels of state 24 organizations, we worked with various levels of 25 local organizations, regional organizations, in 1 developing the Common Core. 2 There was extensive public input to what the 3 Core would eventually result in. 4 Our own Board of Regents added a pre-K 5 component to this. 6 We certainly value the education at the 7 earliest levels. 8 The board has continued to demonstrate that. 9 So as we move forward, we move forward 10 against a new set of expectations that, again, sets 11 our students on a trajectory to be successful for 12 whatever chapter they may enter into, college, 13 career, or military. 14 Within the trajectory that we've set, both 15 for the Common Core, and for the Reform Agenda in 16 general, the board has been very clear, that as we 17 move along, we will be making adjustments. 18 This is a historic set of changes, and we 19 would be foolish to think that we can do it well and 20 do it correctly on the first cut, so we've made some 21 adjustments already. 22 In October, the board directed the staff to 23 submit a waiver request to the federal -- to the 24 U.S. Department of Education, asking for a waiver 25 against double-testing, so that our eighth-grade 1 accelerated students could take algebra, take the 2 Algebra Regents, and not also be burdened by the 3 eighth-grade test that is typically required from 4 the federal government. 5 We have built a waiver application, that we 6 have a think-tank, a collection of teachers, 7 administrators in the State Education Department, 8 that will look at other areas of relief for testing 9 for English-language learners, for our students with 10 disabilities. 11 And we also are sponsoring a grant program 12 that we will provide to districts so that they can 13 assess exactly what it is that they're utilizing 14 assessments for today, to make sure that they have a 15 coherent set of assessments that measure against the 16 accomplishments towards the Common Core, again, to 17 set students on that trajectory for college- and 18 career-readiness. 19 We'll make more changes. 20 We are in forums, as the Senator suggested, 21 all across New York State. 22 Commissioner King and I are in schools every 23 week, listening to educators, seeing what's working. 24 And I have to tell you, we are encouraged by 25 what we're seeing. 1 This morning I left 500 educators over at our 2 own museum, who are there studying the curriculum 3 modules, studying together how they can best 4 implement this work, with the understanding that 5 more of our students need to be on grade level from 6 the earliest grades, such that, when they graduate, 7 they are, in fact, ready for college and careers. 8 So we have a lot of work to do, and we know 9 that. 10 We've engaged at every level of educators. 11 We've engaged in these forums on the previous 12 occasions. 13 And I'm happy to be here today, again, on 14 behalf of the Commissioner, and happy to take your 15 questions at this time. 16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Tkaczyk. 17 SENATOR TKACZYK: Thank you for being here 18 this morning. 19 I was at the hearing in New York City where 20 Merryl Tisch spoke, and I asked her what was the 21 most important thing we could be doing to help get 22 kids ready for college and careers, and, she said it 23 was a strong early intervention -- early education 24 program. 25 So, is this something that we're going to see 1 more resources put towards in next year's budget? 2 Because as you know, we don't provide early 3 education at all of our school districts, and, 4 frankly, I have a lot of school districts that are 5 financially stressed. 6 And, kindergarten is not even mandated in 7 this state. 8 KEN SLENTZ: Right. 9 SENATOR TKACZYK: And I'm concerned about the 10 resources we're putting, pushing school districts -- 11 the decisions we're pushing school districts to be 12 making financially, if we don't provide them 13 resources, along with, you know, time to implement 14 the Common Core, and really help them address what 15 it is they need to have in place to help kids get 16 ready for college and careers. 17 KEN SLENTZ: The appropriate response would 18 simply be to say "Amen" to all of that. 19 The investment in early learning is critical, 20 no question. 21 We know what the research says, and we know, 22 in fact, what the reality on the ground is. 23 You'll hear from Katie Ferguson, talk about 24 some of that reality, and the children that come 25 into her classrooms, and she has spanned the 1 early-learning continuum. 2 So the Board of Regents, in their State-aid 3 proposal, has advocated for additional funding for 4 early learning, for pre-K, in general. 5 We'll do that again this year. 6 The Governor responded last year with a 7 $25 million grant to expand universal pre-K. 8 It's still not enough. 9 Appreciated, but still not enough. 10 It is really, I would argue, the policy 11 dilemma of this state, and of all states, of whether 12 or not we will prioritize it enough to make 13 sacrifices in other areas. 14 So there's no question, not just in early 15 learning and access for all students to quality 16 learning, but, again, to up that quality, we, 17 through Race to the Top, invested $4 million in the 18 Quality STARS Program so that parents would have an 19 idea of exactly what the quality of program was that 20 their students were entering into, but it's not 21 enough. 22 The professional-development component around 23 the foundations for the Common Core for pre-K, that 24 isn't enough right now, so we'll advocate for more 25 resources in that regard as well. 1 But you're absolutely right, the resource 2 component, prioritizing this as a policy, that we 3 all agree on and can move forward, really has to be 4 at the fore this year. 5 SENATOR TKACZYK: And I appreciate all of 6 that, but I think what Chancellor Tisch also said 7 is, that the rollout with the Common Core 8 implementation has been uneven. 9 And I think that that's -- you know, I think 10 it's been more than uneven. 11 I think we haven't given the schools the time 12 and the resources to fully implement it well before 13 we started testing kids on it. 14 And I think the resources at schools are also 15 uneven. 16 You know, we don't -- you know, schools -- 17 rural schools and schools in high poverty areas 18 don't have the ability to bring in resources from 19 local property taxes the way other school districts 20 may. 21 And I think we have to provide resources 22 across the board to help all schools get kids ready 23 for college and careers. 24 So, I urge you to work with the Governor and 25 ensure that we have the resources we need on the 1 ground to be successful in raising these standards. 2 Another thing I wanted to ask you to comment 3 on, we've had several forums with Commissioner King, 4 and at some of these forums, parents and -- of 5 special-needs children, and teachers who were 6 teaching special-needs kids, have concerns about how 7 we're changing and implementing these 8 Common Core Standards for special-needs kids. 9 Can you talk about any waivers you're 10 proposing around? 11 Because you mentioned children with 12 disabilities, as you're -- you're looking at, 13 seeking a waiver for them. 14 KEN SLENTZ: That's right. 15 SENATOR TKACZYK: Could you please respond to 16 that -- explain more about that? 17 And, also, I think it would be very helpful, 18 and a number of local legislators, along with 19 myself, sent a letter to Commissioner King, 20 requesting that you have a forum just specifically 21 on special-needs issues, so that people, parents and 22 teachers, can come and discuss that specific topic, 23 because I think it can be confusing. 24 There are, you know, different federal 25 statutes that we have to comply with. 1 Children with an IEP (an individual 2 educational plan) have accommodations that are made. 3 And, how are we making sure that the 4 appropriate accommodations are being made so that 5 that child's individual education plan is really the 6 one that we're following, and making sure that the 7 needs of that child to be college- and career-ready 8 are addressed, because it's already in their IEP? 9 So I have a lot of concerns around how we're 10 dealing with children with special needs, and 11 I think it would be helpful if there was a forum 12 that focused on that topic. 13 KEN SLENTZ: Yeah, and thank you for that, 14 the question and the suggestions. 15 Obviously, we'll have conversations in the 16 department about the -- holding the forum, as you 17 suggested. 18 But in terms of students with disabilities, 19 in general, as you're well aware, the decisions of 20 what goes into the IEP is determined at the local 21 level, but all of this is done under the auspices of 22 what's required in federal law, and certainly within 23 state law as well. 24 We have, as we've always had, with students 25 with disabilities, we have a great deal of work to 1 do, between professional development, which, again, 2 we will be advocating for this year, between 3 building scaffolding, appropriate scaffolding, to 4 the Common Core modules. 5 If a district chooses to use those, those 6 modules, the -- what we are doing in terms of the 7 waiver, as you suggested, suggesting that students 8 are tested at the appropriate instructional level 9 instead of their chronological age, that's a 10 critical component of this. 11 In terms of the credentials that a student 12 with disability can earn, we've made significant 13 changes there as well in the last year and a half, 14 where the IEP diploma, for example, which was, 15 arguably, a certificate of attendance, it held no 16 meaning beyond the high school walls. 17 We have taken the -- the board sunsetted the 18 IEP diploma, and we brought in the 19 skills-and-achievement credential for our students 20 with most significant disabilities. 21 We've also brought in the CDOS credential, 22 which is based on a set of standards approved by the 23 Board of Regents, that really focuses on the world 24 of work- and career-readiness. 25 Both of those: The skills-and-achievement 1 credential is in place now. The CDOS credential is 2 rolling out with a two-year phase-in. 3 So between the professional development that 4 we're advocating for; the tools, resources, and 5 training that we're providing; we have about 6 500 educators, as I suggested, across the way right 7 now, working on some of these things. 8 We'll be pulling together a statewide 9 workgroup to focus just on students with 10 disabilities, and how we can improve those tools, 11 resources, and training to make sure that the 12 teachers have the skills that they need to work with 13 these kids to achieve what the Common Core 14 envisions. 15 And, again, continuing on the waiver work, 16 all of this is collectively to say that we 17 understand the significant challenge for our 18 students with disabilities. 19 We have significant action steps that we're 20 taking. 21 We have action steps that we're taking for 22 our English-language learners. 23 Much of which you said is paralleled with 24 those students. 25 But at the end of the day, this is going to 1 take a commitment, both, financially, both from a 2 policy perspective, and from a work perspective, to 3 continue to get this done. 4 SENATOR TKACZYK: I just want to understand, 5 on the testing of kids with special needs, you said 6 the waiver is to allow children to get a test that's 7 developmentally appropriate for them. 8 KEN SLENTZ: At their instructional level, 9 correct. 10 SENATOR TKACZYK: So, for example, you could 11 have a fifth-grader who is developmentally reading 12 at a second-grade level, but, they're getting now 13 the ELA assessment on the fifth-grade level. 14 KEN SLENTZ: That's correct. 15 SENATOR TKACZYK: That's a problem. 16 KEN SLENTZ: With the appropriate supports as 17 determined by the IEP. 18 But keep in mind, Senator, that these are 19 things that are dictated by federal law. 20 These are issues that we have put policy 21 around, that we have put supports around, but at the 22 end of the day, we do have to comply with IDEA. 23 SENATOR TKACZYK: Right. 24 So the waiver would do, what, specifically? 25 KEN SLENTZ: Would actually take that 1 provision away so that, as determined by the 2 Committee on Special Education, where that child is 3 instructionally at that developmental level, if you 4 will, would allow the student to be tested there, in 5 your example, on the second-grade level instead of 6 on the fifth-grade level. 7 But this would -- we would want to have 8 provisions in there that made sure that, each year, 9 we are still increasing the rigor for that student, 10 as appropriate, to disallow tracking, if you will. 11 There are some perverse incentives in some 12 policies like these, that we need to unfortunately 13 guard against. 14 SENATOR TKACZYK: When would this waiver be 15 applied for? 16 And what is the timing of this process for 17 the waivers? 18 KEN SLENTZ: Yeah, thank you for the 19 question. 20 We are in the process now, we are working 21 with our external think-tank. 22 Again, these are educators from across 23 New York State who are giving us input on these key 24 areas. 25 We anticipate submission, end of January, 1 beginning of February, and we anticipate response 2 before the end of the current school year. 3 SENATOR TKACZYK: So until you get a waiver, 4 we still have to follow the -- 5 KEN SLENTZ: That is correct. 6 SENATOR TKACZYK: -- the current assessment 7 guidelines. 8 Okay. 9 Thank you. 10 KEN SLENTZ: You're welcome. 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Ritchie. 12 SENATOR RITCHIE: First, I would like to 13 start off by thanking Senator Flanagan for holding 14 this hearing, because no other issue, since I've 15 been elected, has generated more e-mails, calls, 16 and letters. 17 I have received, literally, hundreds of 18 responses from my constituents, asking me to 19 intercede on their behalf. 20 And as I have traveled around the school 21 districts in the three counties that I've 22 represented, you know, not one school has told me 23 that they have a problem with the Common Core, or as 24 what is contained in it. 25 Their issue has been that it was not rolled 1 out properly. 2 And, it doesn't matter what school I go to, 3 every single classroom has the same response: that 4 they were not prepared ahead of time. 5 And as questions came up, when they would 6 call and ask for guidance, the target was a moving 7 target as it went along so that no one could ever 8 really answer the questions that they were calling 9 in about. 10 So I guess my first question would be: 11 Has that changed since you initially rolled 12 out Common Core, or is that something that continues 13 to be a problem? 14 Because I've not received any less, you know, 15 calls from those in my district, whether it's a 16 parent, it's the administrator, or whether it's the 17 teachers that are on the ground that are trying to 18 comply with what's been put out. 19 KEN SLENTZ: So my assumption, Senator, is 20 that you're talking about the curriculum modules 21 that we have been producing. 22 SENATOR RITCHIE: Yes. 23 KEN SLENTZ: Know about that first, I mean, 24 what we are providing, we committed to in our 25 Race to the Top application, we have stayed 1 committed to all along, but these are voluntary 2 modules. 3 The State cannot mandate a curriculum, so 4 these are being put out as resources for school 5 districts who ultimately hold the decisions as to 6 whether a particular curriculum is adopted. 7 And so, with that, knowing the anxiety, that 8 a number of districts were, in fact, choosing to go 9 with our modules, we have a posting on our website, 10 EngageNY, that talks about exactly where each module 11 is in production, what the timeline is for 12 completion, where we are now, additional supporting 13 materials that can be used for teachers who choose 14 not to use the modules, that are going to either 15 adapt their own curriculum or create their own 16 curriculum. 17 Unlike anything that I certainly had when 18 I was a teacher in middle school, or that I had as a 19 principal or a superintendent, the State never 20 provided those types of tools in terms of building 21 our own curriculum. 22 We had general guides, but nothing like we 23 have now. 24 So, we have made provisions for each area. 25 If you're going to create, adapt, or adopt, 1 we have made provisions for that. 2 We do have that timeline posted for the 3 modules. 4 In terms of the unevenness of the rollout, 5 candidly, I can't imagine it being any different, 6 given that we have 700 school districts which, as 7 the Senator suggested prior, that all have a variety 8 of challenges in terms of resource allocation, 9 human-pipeline-capacity issues in terms of teachers 10 and leaders. 11 We know we've had significant cuts over the 12 last several years which put strains on districts. 13 So when people say it's an uneven rollout, 14 I do think that's a district-by-district issue, and 15 that's why we spend so much time on the road, trying 16 to understand exactly what that means. 17 But I think our biggest challenge on this is 18 communication. 19 And, there aren't enough people that know 20 about the timeline on Engage. 21 There aren't enough people that know exactly 22 what is there right now in terms of the module 23 availability. 24 So, that is something that we continue to 25 battle, candidly, in terms of making that 1 information known and getting that information down 2 to the classroom level. 3 Again, as I suggested, the tools that we need 4 to have in teachers' hands, for far too many 5 teachers, it's not there yet. 6 SENATOR RITCHIE: Well, I guess I would 7 follow up: 8 What are you doing to make sure that all 9 700 of the schools districts are receiving the 10 information that they need? 11 Because I know I have a concern that the 12 Commissioner is not making his way up to the 13 North Country to hear from the people that 14 I represent, and that's why, you know, I sent in a 15 letter asking that a forum be held up there. 16 And because we're in the North Country, many 17 times, we're kind of left out of what's going on 18 here in Albany. 19 So I would ask if that is something that you 20 would entertain, when you go back and speak to the 21 Commissioner, that if you could try to make that a 22 priority, to come, you know, somewhere in the 23 district that I represent, so that the hundreds of 24 people who have e-mailed and wrote letters and 25 taken time to call, invite me to school to see 1 what's going on. 2 And along with that, I sent out a school 3 survey, and over three-quarters of the response, the 4 number one issue was the rollout of Common Core. 5 And, you know, for me it's pretty 6 disheartening to go to the school, and, you know, a 7 lot of times I talk to the teachers, and there's 8 some concerns, but when you have students, and 9 younger students, actually spending most of the time 10 that they have to ask me questions, all about 11 "Why are you testing me so much?" And some of them 12 breaking down and crying in the forum. 13 There has to be -- there has to be some real 14 issue at the core of this, no pun intended, that so 15 many -- so many parents, so many students, so many 16 teachers, administrators, across the whole district, 17 it doesn't matter where I show up, the concerns are 18 exactly the same. 19 So, there has to be some real issue with how 20 this was rolled out initially. 21 KEN SLENTZ: Yeah, a couple of things in 22 response, if I may. 23 In terms of getting to the North Country, 24 next week we will be in Schroon Lake doing one of 25 the forums. 1 I believe three weeks ago, Commissioner was 2 in the Watertown area. He visited 3 Copenhagen Central School, he visited Watertown. 4 And having myself, grown up in Black River, 5 and was a superintendent in Long Lake, I know well 6 what you're talking about in terms of the isolation. 7 And, so, that's why we utilize our 8 37 district superintendents, their assistant 9 superintendents, in any of the technical advisory 10 committees that we have, any of our resource 11 centers, to try to get that information out to 12 teachers as quickly as we can. 13 We've resorted to e-mailing. 14 Using a couple different systems within the 15 department, e-mailing this information out. 16 We still can't get to every classroom, but 17 it's something that we continue to work with all of 18 those entities to do. 19 In terms of the testing, and what you're 20 hearing about the testing, two points on that: 21 Number one, two years ago, we made a 22 decision, with a significant amount of input from 23 the field, when we were hearing that students 24 weren't having enough time to complete the 25 3-through-8 test, which, as you are aware, are 1 required by federal law. 2 So we asked, should we put in a provision, 3 which instead of simply capping the time at -- at -- 4 the typical time, at that point, was, roughly, 5 60 minutes -- should we put in a provision which 6 talks about the anticipated time on testing, and the 7 maximum allowable time on testing? 8 In other words, give students a cushion, 9 that, here's where we think the typical student, the 10 amount of time that they would take; but, here, we 11 want to make sure that students don't feel the 12 pressure of too much time. 13 So we added time to the testing in that 14 maximum allowable time, again, with significant 15 field input. 16 So it would appear that there is more testing 17 time that's required, when, in fact, what 18 constitutes that extra time is that extra pillow, if 19 you will, on top, that really takes out what's 20 called "speededness." 21 In other words, we're not testing kids on 22 time. 23 We want to give them as much time as possible 24 to show everything that they know, and are able to 25 do. 1 In terms of testing, in general, with the 2 introduction of the annual Professional-Performance 3 Review requirement under 3012-c, there are testing 4 suggestions in there, in terms of the Local 20, in 5 terms of building student-learning objective on the 6 State 20 for those teachers who don't have a state 7 test. 8 None of those tests are required. 9 That is a local decision as to whether you 10 use a test, historical data. 11 We've put out a significant amount of 12 information on how to utilize that information so 13 that you're not required to do, or you don't feel 14 compelled to use, a test for that. 15 So there's still a good deal of 16 misinformation about what's required and what's not. 17 It goes back to our communication challenge. 18 So, with each of these situations that we 19 hear about, we take a look at our guidance, we take 20 a look at the webinars that we're putting out, the 21 tools and resources in general, utilizing our 22 stakeholders that Commissioner and I meet with each 23 month -- the Council of School Superintendents, 24 school boards, School Administrators Association, 25 NYSUT, the Empire State School Administrators -- to 1 make sure we're getting that information out, that 2 these tests are not required, you have other 3 options. 4 I think it's going to take us a little bit of 5 time to get there and to build that understanding. 6 So, I understand what you're suggesting in 7 terms of the testing, in general, but from the State 8 perspective, what we're required, was the extra 9 time, based on field input, those other tests that 10 are being chosen right now. 11 Again, the time was tight in terms of getting 12 an approved APPR plan. 13 We want to tip our hat to that. 14 But we also want to make sure that folks 15 understand, and continue to build practices around 16 the fact, that those tests are not required. 17 There are other options. 18 SENATOR RITCHIE: And just in reference to 19 your comment about coming to Jefferson County, 20 I understand that you were there, but that's a 21 different format from what the Commissioner is now 22 doing. 23 I think we need an opportunity in our area, 24 for those who are concerned about it, to have the 25 ability to express their concern. 1 And if you're from Black River, you also know 2 that Schroon Lake is still a long way -- 3 KEN SLENTZ: Long way away. 4 SENATOR RITCHIE: -- from the district that 5 I represent. 6 KEN SLENTZ: Yes, yes, I know it well. 7 SENATOR RITCHIE: Especially now that we're 8 getting into the winter months. 9 KEN SLENTZ: Yes. 10 SENATOR RITCHIE: Just to follow up on 11 Senator Tkaczyk's point, when you're talking about 12 students with special needs, as far as doing away 13 with the IEP diploma, could you just give us an 14 update on what the statistics are as far as those 15 students that were in the middle when you changed 16 the rules? 17 KEN SLENTZ: Yeah, I don't have the exact 18 number, Senator. 19 That's something that we can provide for you. 20 But this is the first year of full 21 implementation of CDOS credential, so we don't have 22 numbers yet of students who will receive that 23 credential. 24 But in terms of those kids who were on track 25 for the IEP diploma, I don't have those numbers 1 readily available for you. 2 SENATOR RITCHIE: And just to go along with 3 that, I know this was implemented earlier, but those 4 students that were eligible for a local diploma, and 5 then were not, if you can get me the statistics on 6 that? 7 Because I've had a real concern that, you 8 know, everyone wants our children to do the best 9 they can, but there also are some children who have 10 some challenges, that shouldn't be left out in the 11 cold just because we want our numbers to look good. 12 KEN SLENTZ: Now in term -- if I may clarify, 13 in terms of the local diploma, are you talking about 14 students with disabilities, or general-education 15 students? 16 SENATOR RITCHIE: Both. 17 KEN SLENTZ: Because, for students with 18 disabilities, the local diploma is still available. 19 And, actually, we flexed that even more last 20 year, when we built something called the 21 "compensatory model." 22 Prior to that, a student in -- with the 23 safety net, a student with a disability, had to earn 24 a 55 or above on each of the five Regents exams in 25 order to obtain the local diploma. 1 Last year, it may have been a year and a half 2 now, the compensatory model says that, other than 3 for ELA and math, if a student scores a 46, 4 I believe it is, or above, that score can be 5 compensated for by another assessment that's at 6 65 or above. 7 So we actually built even more flexibility 8 into that safety net. 9 But in terms of students -- general education 10 students, that -- the IEP diploma was -- or, I'm 11 sorry, the local diploma was sunset for them last 12 year, I believe, after, roughly, a 10-year phase-out 13 of that. 14 SENATOR RITCHIE: And so I guess I would 15 personally just like to know, what happened to the 16 students that might have been eligible for a local 17 diploma? 18 Did they end up with a Regents diploma? 19 Or, what the stats are on it; what happened 20 to those students? 21 KEN SLENTZ: And I can send you both the 22 numbers and the regulatory language of how we 23 managed that within regulations as well. 24 SENATOR RITCHIE: Okay, thank you. 25 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Seward. 1 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, thank you. 2 I, too, want to start by commending our 3 Chairman, Senator Flanagan, for holding this series 4 of hearings throughout the state. 5 This is the second hearing that I personally 6 have participated in, and I think they're very, very 7 helpful, and it's very appropriate that we come 8 together to assess where we are in terms of the 9 Regents Reform Agenda. 10 I had a couple of questions. 11 And, first of all, the -- you know, we hear 12 often that, that term, you know, we want our 13 students to be "career- and college-ready"; and 14 I certainly agree with that. 15 But I'm just curious, is there a definition 16 of "career- and college-readiness"? 17 KEN SLENTZ: Generally speaking, what we've 18 used, for "college-readiness in particular, that's 19 the ability for a student to take a credit-bearing 20 first-year course in a community college. 21 In other words, either the grades that 22 they've received in high school and/or what they 23 have accomplished on the entrance assessment for 24 community college allows them to go into 25 credit-bearing courses, as opposed to having to take 1 remediation courses for which there is no credit, 2 but there still is the financial tab for that. 3 In terms of "career-ready," that definition 4 isn't so clear-cut yet. 5 What we have generally used as proxy is a 6 very similar set of skills relative to 7 college-readiness that students will need for 8 twenty-first-century jobs, such as those that we 9 have up the street in Saratoga at Malta, for 10 example; the critical-thinking skills, the 11 collaborative skills, the ability to read and read 12 well, and to be able to analyze particular texts. 13 You're familiar, Senator, with some of the 14 codes manuals for electrical trades. 15 For a student to be able to grapple with the 16 reading levels that are required within those 17 manuals, within a number of career-based manuals, is 18 significant. 19 And, Bill Daggett, who many of you are 20 probably familiar with, runs the 21 International Center for Learning, did a Lexile 22 study on where high school textbooks are now, versus 23 where college textbooks are, versus where manuals 24 would be for those entry-level careers. 25 There's a significant difference with college 1 text -- or, high school textbooks being on the lower 2 end for what students will need. 3 So to be able to read those texts, to be able 4 to understand those texts, and apply the information 5 from those texts, to be able to work, again, 6 cooperatively and collaboratively within a team, 7 through analysis of various informations, all of 8 those skills are required to be both college- and 9 career-ready. 10 But in terms of the specifics for 11 "college-ready," we are much more exact in that 12 definition. 13 SENATOR SEWARD: Well, I appreciate that 14 explanation, because that's a term that's often used 15 but never really defined. 16 And I appreciate that explanation. 17 I wanted to follow up on some of the themes 18 of my colleagues who have also asked questions. 19 Certainly, with the Regents Reform Agenda 20 that's been worked on these last number of years, 21 the -- you know, the Common Core, we've had APPR, 22 you know, testing, increased testing in the schools, 23 and then, of course, data, data, data collection 24 that has increased significantly; all of this 25 happening at the very same time that resources have 1 been limited. 2 We've had this gap-elimination adjustment 3 which was implemented a few years ago, and we're 4 whittling away at that. 5 But, I'm very pleased that the Senate has 6 gone on record that we want to eliminate the 7 gap-elimination adjustment. That would be big step 8 in the right direction in terms of finances, 9 particularly for the schools in my area. 10 So this is -- there's a lot happening out 11 there, and, these are very challenging times in the 12 schools. 13 Like Senator Ritchie, I am regularly in the 14 schools in my district. 15 I have some 40-some districts in my -- school 16 districts in my Senate District, and I make a point 17 to visit my schools on a regular basis. 18 And I am finding a lot of stress, a lot of 19 uneasiness, and I see it among, not only the 20 educators, but, as Senator Ritchie pointed out, 21 amongst students, particularly those young students, 22 that we want them to get a good start in terms of 23 their educational careers. 24 And so I have, uhm -- I have used that 25 phrase, that I think everyone at this point needs 1 to, shall we say, slow down and take a deep breath. 2 Both -- I would say both the Regents and the 3 State Education Department needs to do that, as well 4 as some of the others that are involved in -- you 5 know, in their opposition to the Common Core. 6 And -- and I would say that we still have a 7 long way to go, and I think you've acknowledged that 8 here this morning. 9 Not all of the learning modules are complete 10 yet. 11 And while they are described as a tool, only 12 a tool to be used out there in the schools, there is 13 so much apprehension about the rapid change and the 14 unevenness of the rollout of Common Core, that many 15 educators tell me that they are afraid to deviate 16 from those learning modules, because of the fact 17 that, you know, there's the testing at the end, and 18 they just want to make sure that they get through -- 19 through it with their students. 20 They feel compelled to do that. 21 And even some of these learning -- so you 22 have the learning modules that are out there, are 23 very scripted, and taking away a lot of innovation 24 among educators. 25 I think we need to get over that hump, in 1 terms of, that they are only a -- should be used as 2 a tool, not as a script, but that's going to take 3 some time. 4 And, yet, and some of the learning modules 5 aren't even ready yet for -- under Common Core. 6 So, talk about unevenness of the rollout, 7 that's not the fault of the school districts; 8 that's -- that's -- that's at the State Education 9 Department, in terms of not having all of the 10 learning modules prepared. 11 So -- and we're still seeking waivers, 12 which -- from the federal government, which I think 13 is a positive sign. 14 So -- and I commend the Commissioner for 15 going back out into the field and having forums. 16 That -- that, I think that's very, very 17 positive, that he -- he got back on track in terms 18 of going out there and having forums. 19 So my point is -- there is a question here -- 20 my point is, that there's a lot of -- there's a lot 21 still happening in terms of developing. 22 We're still rolling out the Common Core. 23 That, why not take a deep breath here, in 24 terms of just slowing down? 25 And, in terms of these testing requirements, 1 why have -- why weren't waivers sought before we 2 rolled this out here in New York, for example? 3 You know, there's a lot happening. 4 It's causing disruption in many, many school 5 districts, in many, many classrooms. 6 So why not take that deep breath and let's 7 get it right? 8 KEN SLENTZ: And I appreciate all of your 9 comments, Senator. 10 And, again, having been a superintendent in 11 your district -- 12 SENATOR SEWARD: Right. 13 KEN SLENTZ: -- I can attest that you did 14 spend plenty of time in your schools. 15 We have to keep in mind that the standards 16 themselves were adopted by the board in 2010, and we 17 projected, from that time, where the testing would 18 be, we projected where the resources would be, and 19 encouraged school districts to really get to work on 20 these standards. 21 That, in and of itself, produced some 22 unevenness, because there are school districts 23 around the state, that both the Commissioner and 24 I have visited, that they did, in fact, jump on this 25 in 2010. 1 They had built curriculum before off of 2 standards. 3 As I mentioned, we have given an 4 unprecedented amount of tools, resources, and 5 training around this, but there are a number of 6 districts who, in 1996, for example, and then again 7 in 2005, when those standards were modified, they 8 took the standards, they took the guidance that the 9 department had given, and they built curriculum off 10 of that. 11 They used either their own or they built from 12 what vendors provided. 13 We, for example, as teachers, never took a 14 textbook, never took the resources, that our 15 district adopted and read every page with our 16 student, assigned every element from them, assigned 17 every component that was suggested as homework. 18 We used our professional judgment as to what 19 was best, in terms of collecting resources, based on 20 the needs of our students. 21 That axiom is still very true today. 22 I understand there is additional pressure 23 because of APPR, but at the end of the day, 24 providing those modules as resources, even though 25 the delivery has been uneven, it still has to sit in 1 the hands of our educators to determine if they are 2 right, if they give everything that that particular 3 educator's students needs; and if not, how will that 4 be adjusted for? 5 In terms of the scripting, we were very 6 specific, if you look, even on EngageNY, and how we 7 describe this, we put scripts in there, so as people 8 are looking as the these modules, they get a good 9 sense of what it could look like when enacted. 10 It was by no means suggested, designed for 11 this, or even encouraged that people follow those 12 scripts. 13 That was simply modeling that was put in 14 place. 15 Unfortunately, some folks who have said, some 16 districts who have said, "We are adopting the 17 modules and you will implement them with fidelity," 18 it's been interpreted that every script is to be 19 read, every homework assignment is to be given. 20 So I'm sure all of you have heard from folks 21 who are using the modules, My students are doing an 22 incredible amount of homework. 23 It was never designed that all of that 24 homework would be assigned. 25 It was designed, such that, professional 1 educators, in their best judgment, would make a 2 decision as to what was going to be used to bring 3 about the best in each of their students. 4 A couple of other components: 5 In terms of the waivers, you asked why we 6 hadn't requested these before, we have, and we've 7 been denied. 8 There is, with eighth grade, for example, 9 because of the advent of Common Core testing, there 10 is a very real possibility of double-testing. 11 Eighth-graders who are accelerated is the 12 perfect example. 13 And, so, Tennessee has already received a 14 waiver, so that they're eighth-graders can take the 15 algebra test in eighth grade, and not have to take 16 the NCLB-required eighth-grade assessment. 17 So there is precedent for that now, that 18 heretofore simply wasn't there. 19 In terms of English-language learners, 20 New Mexico has a model program for Spanish only. 21 New York is a much more diverse state in 22 terms of our languages, so this will be a first step 23 for us, in terms of looking at Spanish, and then 24 perhaps expanding to other languages. 25 For students with disabilities, again, 1 there's a long controversy around testing students 2 with disabilities because, for so long -- and the 3 advocacy community will tell you this -- for so 4 long, both students with disabilities and 5 English-language learners, they were under-attended 6 to in terms of their needs. 7 We think back to the 1970s, for example, how 8 our students with severe disabilities, how they were 9 treated. 10 It is not something that any of us would 11 stand for today. 12 So there are challenges in terms of where 13 those rigor bars have been set, based on states' 14 education departments, based on advocacy 15 communities, all of which we are grappling with. 16 One other point, in terms of taking a breath, 17 that is the tension point here, because, again, we 18 look at what I started out with, with a number of 19 students who are not graduating college- and 20 career-ready. 21 When we look at our urban centers, our small 22 city centers, for example, our rural poor districts, 23 where the college- and career-readiness rates are in 24 the teens or single digits, we feel an incredible 25 urgency, and we feel a sense of trust, that with 1 that urgency the adults will find balance in putting 2 this work forward. 3 We are not convinced that taking a breath 4 will actually better the kids' lots, if you will, as 5 they head off to colleges and careers, because they, 6 in fact, when they graduate, they are facing the 7 Common Core expectations today. 8 So for us to take a break is asking us to 9 take another set of graduates, some 100,000 10 students, or perhaps another graduating class beyond 11 that, and telling them that we're going to wait 12 until we, the adults, feel that we're comfortable 13 moving this work forward. 14 I say that very respectfully, of course. 15 SENATOR SEWARD: Yeah, no, no. 16 Do you feel a -- any similar concern about 17 the students -- and these are the stories that we 18 hear -- the students that are getting, shall we say, 19 turned off, in terms of going to school and having 20 an education? 21 Do you -- are you -- you must be hearing 22 those if you're out there in the field. 23 KEN SLENTZ: I do. 24 SENATOR SEWARD: You're hearing these same 25 stories. 1 And, you know, I would say that, someone used 2 the term "uneven" in terms of the rollout here. 3 And even in my own school districts and my 4 own Senate district, I would say some school 5 districts, it seems to be going better than others, 6 and -- but, yet, you know, I have concerns about 7 those students that I hear about, that are being, 8 you know, turned off, in terms of going to school, 9 and, where teachers, you know, feeling they need to 10 just teach to the tests, versus, really providing a 11 well-rounded education. 12 Aren't we losing students there as well? 13 I mean, are we -- are they going to be 14 career- and college-ready? 15 I -- don't -- 16 KEN SLENTZ: I mean, this is a significant 17 challenge because, for those districts that we're 18 hearing the stories, as you are, we're also visiting 19 districts where we're watching kids dive into these 20 materials because they are being guided by a teacher 21 who themselves finds the challenge within the 22 modules, within the curriculum, within whichever 23 path they've chosen to put students on towards 24 those -- meeting the expectations of the standards. 25 Again, it comes back, as Senator Flanagan 1 opened up, that highly-effective teacher in front of 2 all of our kids? 3 Those teachers are the ones that are finding 4 the best materials of everything that's out there, 5 including the modules, and making sure no different 6 than we ever have, making sure that the kids find 7 the joy in learning, making sure that they have 8 challenges, that they have supports when they're 9 feeling challenges. 10 They're meeting with their parents, telling 11 them the game is different today, based on what we 12 need our kids to know and be able to do. 13 And, again, we need to get more of our 14 teachers, more of our principals, more of our 15 district leaders, to that point. 16 John and I are convinced that it's going to 17 happen, only because we're experiencing it when 18 we're on the road. 19 Don't get me wrong, we're hearing the other 20 side as well. 21 But, unfortunately, some of the choices that 22 have been made in those districts, choices that, 23 We're going to use testing, pre- and-post testing, 24 for APPR. We're going to use the modules exactly as 25 they come out of box; if that's the case, then I can 1 see where those students and teachers are coming 2 from. 3 But that is not the design, and that's not 4 what we are seeing in an increasing fashion in a 5 number of districts around the state. 6 SENATOR SEWARD: Yeah, when I talk about 7 taking a deep breath, I -- I'm talking about -- 8 I recognize that the real key here is the buy-in on 9 the part of that teacher in the classroom -- 10 KEN SLENTZ: Yeah. 11 SENATOR SEWARD: -- and -- as well as leaders 12 in the building and in the school district. 13 And my sense is, that it's going to take some 14 time to -- you know, to develop that, and -- you 15 know, with changes. 16 And, so, that's my definition of "taking a 17 deep breath." 18 KEN SLENTZ: Understood. 19 SENATOR SEWARD: Certainly, not helping kids 20 achieve more in the classroom, we don't want to take 21 a deep breath from that. 22 But in terms of the way it's being -- how 23 we're getting there, I think change -- is a matter 24 of discussion. 25 Just one final question; I just wanted to 1 zero in on these waivers. 2 What -- you -- we've had -- we have a waiver 3 request now pending in terms of the double-testing 4 in the eighth-grade math? 5 KEN SLENTZ: The double-testing is separate 6 from the larger waiver that will be submitted in 7 January -- late January, beginning of February. 8 The eighth-grade testing, we actually 9 anticipate having that back before the first of the 10 year so that we can notify districts -- hopefully, 11 being able to notify districts that, in fact, we 12 have been approved for that, and that the students 13 will not have to take both of those assessments. 14 SENATOR SEWARD: And the other waiver is 15 regarding special education? 16 KEN SLENTZ: That has a number of components 17 to it. 18 The two primary ones that I've highlighted 19 today: 20 How we test our English-language learners; 21 the possibility of testing them in their native 22 language, for example; 23 And, testing students with disabilities at 24 their instructional level. 25 There are other components to this which 1 include accountability provisions for students, for 2 example, who are taking certain CTE programs, to be 3 able to give full accountability points for those 4 students. 5 But the testing ones, the primary testing 6 ones, sit in those first two that I noted. 7 SENATOR SEWARD: Thank you. 8 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Tkaczyk. 9 SENATOR TKACZYK: Thank you. 10 I just wanted to make a comment. 11 First of all, thank you for holding the 12 hearing. 13 I learn more and more every time I sit 14 through one. 15 But I wanted to follow up on my -- on the 16 special-education question that we've been 17 discussing. 18 Since the waiver isn't going to be submitted 19 until January, and you said it's not going to be, if 20 it's -- the federal government gives you that 21 waiver, it's not something you can tell the schools 22 they can change until next school year. 23 Is there an opt-out provision? 24 Can parents, teachers, be able to change, you 25 know, and not give an inappropriate assessment to a 1 child with special needs, by just opting out? 2 KEN SLENTZ: There is no opt-out provision, 3 either for students with disabilities, for 4 English-language learners, or for students in 5 general. 6 There is no opt-out provision. 7 In terms of students with disabilities, 8 again, in many cases, it depends on the supports, 9 the additional time, the accommodations in general 10 that are provided for within the IEP. 11 And then it goes back, as I suggested before, 12 to how we can build professional development around 13 this. 14 But to your point, there are no provisions 15 for opting out. 16 SENATOR TKACZYK: Do you see any 17 contradiction between the IDEA and this Race to the 18 Top effort, in focusing on the IEP as the way to 19 really provide the educational instruction and 20 goals? 21 And, you know, where these kids are -- you 22 know, the IEP is supposed to help identify what's 23 going to be the best education program for this 24 specific child so that they meet their fullest 25 potential. 1 KEN SLENTZ: That's right. 2 SENATOR TKACZYK: And if we're going to 3 inappropriately assess them, which I say we kind of 4 maybe are, is that a con- -- does that -- do you 5 have problems with the IDEA under that? 6 KEN SLENTZ: Well, I think -- I mean, to -- 7 pointedly, I think that we are acknowledging that we 8 have an issue with this; hence the waiver request. 9 This is something that we know there are 10 issues with, but as I suggested before, this is a 11 challenge, because of the fact of where we have been 12 historically. 13 While we know we have to make adjustments, 14 there is risk in lowering rigorous expectations for 15 these students. 16 So, our first attempt will be to move away 17 from some of the expectations around how students 18 are tested. 19 As I suggested, the professional development, 20 the training, goes hand in hand with all of this. 21 But, in general, this is -- there are 22 tensions around this work, in terms of what we can 23 and should expect of our students with disabilities. 24 SENATOR TKACZYK: So it seems to me like we 25 need to give our schools more flexibility to make 1 those adjustments. 2 I mean, there's nothing we can do in the 3 state to address that? 4 KEN SLENTZ: That's correct. 5 This is off of federal law. 6 SENATOR TKACZYK: Thank you. 7 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Ken, I will be as concise 8 as possible. 9 Two things: 10 One, for people who are involved in this 11 every single day, there's a fundamental distinction 12 between and amongst guidance, regulation, and 13 statutes. 14 Guidance is probably the most vexing part of 15 this for people in the field right now, but, 16 frankly, it's easiest to change. 17 So I would like to hear you comment directly, 18 because part of what I'm hearing, is that the 19 guidance documents are leaning school districts 20 towards pre- and post-testing. 21 And I'm being told that there are 22 requirements, through these documents, that come to 23 districts that basically say, You gotta do this 24 testing. 25 And if that is the case, I would like to see, 1 and I'm sure the Committee would like to see, 2 exactly what those documents are. 3 And, if that is the case, why? 4 And as an extension of that, if it is a 5 guidance document, and the Commissioner is speaking 6 to not going with rote testing and minimizing it, 7 and doing it age-appropriate, and everything else, 8 why has that not been changed already? 9 Because you don't need an act of the 10 Legislature to do that. 11 KEN SLENTZ: That's right. 12 So I think, Senator, we have been very clear 13 within our guidance documents that there are choices 14 to be made around those assessments. 15 The webinars that we've provided, we will 16 provide you, both, with guidance documents from our 17 APPR directory, some 130-plus pages of that. 18 We can point you to specific questions that 19 talk about the type of measurements that can be used 20 that do not require pre- and post-assessments. 21 We can send you webinars, we can send you the 22 PowerPoints, that we have put out at each of our 23 trainings, put out as webinars as I suggested, and 24 put out in continuous guidance and updates, both, 25 from myself, the Commissioner, and from our 1 Office of Teacher and Leader Effectiveness. 2 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay, can I respectfully 3 interrupt you on that point? 4 KEN SLENTZ: Sure. 5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: You're traveling all over 6 the place. 7 KEN SLENTZ: Yep. 8 SENATOR FLANAGAN: We're doing the same. 9 Even -- I'm listening carefully to what 10 you're saying, but what are you hearing from the 11 districts as to what they are doing? 12 I understand your point that they can use 13 alternative measures or other assessments, but, are 14 you hearing, you know, four, five hundred districts 15 are so apprehensive that they're just going with 16 pre- and post-testing, and that's one of the 17 problems that we're experiencing? 18 KEN SLENTZ: Yeah, that's exactly what we're 19 hearing. 20 And then we're also seeing that districts, 21 now that we're into the second year of 22 implementation, a number of districts are taking a 23 look. 24 Because, again, as I suggested before, 25 January 17th came very quickly last year for 1 districts to have their APPR plans submitted and 2 approved. 3 So for many districts, because they were 4 going through collective bargaining, because they 5 were trying to figure this out, they did make 6 selections, candidly, of what may have been easiest, 7 what may have come off the shelf in terms of a 8 third-party assessment, and put that in place. 9 As a result, testing went up significantly in 10 some areas. 11 We have districts now, and we're trying to 12 highlight these districts, who are taking a look at 13 what they did last year, and making those 14 adjustments, so that they're moving away from those 15 pre- and post-tests, they've moving towards 16 historical data, they're trying to figure out the 17 best way to use those assessments. 18 And this is where we've said, we want to put 19 grant money behind that, to the resource point that 20 was made early on, to make sure that all districts 21 are able to do that. 22 But that's going to take some time because, 23 again, many of these things were collectively 24 bargained. 25 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. 1 Second, and somewhat related: 2 One of the -- well, I'm going to make one 3 comment first. 4 In listening to a lot of the questions about 5 waivers, and issues involving English-language 6 learners and students with disabilities, I feel like 7 one of the most important components of our work 8 product here, is that we need to be more actively 9 engaged, SED, and, frankly, the Legislature and the 10 Governor, in seeking changes in federal regulation 11 and federal law. 12 To me, it is idiotic that we would have to 13 seek these waivers, because the basic point should 14 be, I don't think the regulation should be in 15 existence to begin with. 16 That's my own opinion. 17 Modules: Learned a lot more about it. 18 I have these beautiful color-coded things 19 here, modules from -- I have them for grade level, 20 pre-K through 8, I have pre-K through grade 2. 21 And, it seems to me that one of the real 22 disconnects is, districts are very apprehensive 23 about not meeting the goals, and how do you do it? 24 I've heard stories, and you've heard the same 25 things, where, a module may come out, our curriculum 1 guidance comes out, in August, when it really should 2 be coming out in March so teachers can properly 3 prepare for the beginning of the school year. 4 Or worse yet, that it comes out during the 5 school year so. 6 So when you look at a curriculum map, and I'm 7 looking at this as layperson, parent, and a 8 legislator, I think: All right, well, if there's a 9 map, you know, it should be fairly easy to follow. 10 But, if there are supposed to be 11 seven modules, and there's only one out, that seems, 12 to me, all the more reason to take that deep breath, 13 or slow down, because I liken this to a playbook for 14 a football team. 15 If you have a playbook, and there's 60 plays 16 in the playbook, but the coach only gives you 5 and 17 says, "I want you to go out and win the title," 18 I don't know how you do that. 19 So, I would appreciate you commenting on 20 that. 21 KEN SLENTZ: Yeah, I mean, as you suggested, 22 the timeline was not optimal by any means, 23 considering what we were typically used to, when we 24 would do that curriculum mapping, when we would do 25 that curriculum work. 1 But, again, this comes back to the notion of 2 the implementation timeline, about how districts 3 were gearing up for that. 4 We certainly own the fact that the modules 5 were not done in typical timely fashion, but, in 6 addition to the modules, we have been consistently 7 putting out supporting documents. 8 For example, the Tri-State Rubric is one of 9 our favorites, that allows a district to take a look 10 at some of the curriculum materials that they would 11 have traditionally chosen, whether it's a textbook 12 series, whether it's a resource series in general, 13 to determine whether or not that is aligned to the 14 Common Core. 15 So we have tried to accommodate for that 16 timeline, but the fact remains, did we meet the 17 timeline that we originally set out? We did not. 18 Are we in better shape today than we were 19 six months ago? We are. 20 And have we said, specifically, where we are 21 in the development and the delivery of those 22 modules? We have. 23 But beyond that, I can't say anything other 24 than, we did not meet those timelines as expected, 25 to your original question. 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you very much. 2 KEN SLENTZ: You're welcome. 3 Thank you all very much. 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Appreciate your time. 5 Oh, I'm sorry. 6 Senator Ritchie. 7 SENATOR RITCHIE: Sorry, I have a follow-up, 8 because, after listening to that, I actually have 9 more concerns than I had before, the fact that the 10 modules aren't in place. 11 And I know, when Senator Seward asked you 12 take a deep breath and step back, and your comment 13 was, We want everybody to -- we don't want that 14 class of students not to have any of this 15 information; I cannot get my head around what, 16 really, you just said, because you're saying that 17 you don't want those students to not have the 18 information, but you just said they don't have the 19 information. 20 KEN SLENTZ: Sure, let me clarify, if I may. 21 All teachers have the modules that they need 22 for where they are at this point in time. 23 No one is waiting for a module to come out. 24 We do have timelines that we're encroaching 25 upon for some of the high school courses; geometry, 1 for example. 2 We have heard teachers saying that they're 3 coming close to the end of the first module, asking 4 for Module 2. 5 We will deliver that as soon as we can. 6 The assessment for geometry, the Common Core 7 assessment, is not in place until next year, so 8 those teachers still have some time to be able to 9 catch up to that. 10 But in terms of those areas where the 11 assessment is based on the Common Core, all of those 12 modules have been delivered. 13 We have additional supplemental materials. 14 But, again, the timing is such, that, did 15 teachers have a full year, or six months, in advance 16 to look at a full year's worth of curriculum? 17 They did not in many cases. 18 SENATOR RITCHIE: So you keep talking about 19 teacher buy-in, and, you know, all about the 20 teachers that are going to be able to engage their 21 students. 22 How do you expect to get teachers to buy in 23 on something, I'm sorry, that's so poorly rolled 24 out? 25 If I was in their shoes, I would be madder 1 than heck that I'm asking for this information 2 that's not even developed yet by SED. 3 So, you know, I appreciate your testimony, 4 but, if anything, I think you've given me more 5 concerns than when I started, because, what I keep 6 hearing across all my school districts is exactly 7 that; that some of them are asking for information, 8 they want to be prepared, and they can't get the 9 information that they're looking for. 10 So I don't know how, when this all falls back 11 on a teacher, especially an exceptional teacher who 12 wants to do the right thing and they don't have the 13 resources they need, I don't know how SED is ever 14 going to get buy-in from them if you don't have the 15 information out there. 16 And, I'm sorry, SED looks like they were not 17 prepared to roll this out. 18 KEN SLENTZ: May I comment in return? 19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Of course. 20 KEN SLENTZ: Fair points on this; but, again, 21 I want to be very clear: 22 Teachers, to start the year, had what they 23 needed. 24 Did we have the luxury of the time that we 25 traditionally have, that full year, or even that 1 six months, to analyze the full curriculum? We did 2 not. 3 But no teacher went into the school year 4 without having the material that was necessary for 5 them to start the year. 6 The timeframe was not optimal by any means. 7 But, again, I want to go back, this has been 8 in place since 2010. 9 We have been asking, Commissioner directed -- 10 or, suggested to teachers in 2011, every teacher 11 should be implementing at least one Common Core unit 12 based on the standards themselves. 13 We put out support materials. 14 We did the not have modules at that time. 15 But the push was for teachers to dig into the 16 standards themselves, as we had always done whenever 17 there was a new standards movement, because, again, 18 keep in mind, this is the first time the state has 19 ever produced a curricular resource. 20 So, the challenge was issued then. 21 We encouraged people, as I suggested, to dig 22 into those standards, to develop an understanding, 23 to develop their materials, to align their existing 24 curriculum to this work, by providing the tools that 25 we provided. 1 But, again, we did not have that full-year 2 worth of curriculum out for folks as we 3 traditionally have done, but I would say that we are 4 also in an exceptional time period in terms of the 5 urgency with which we need to act. 6 So, was this a perfect design? No, it was 7 not. 8 But was it -- were there materials for 9 teachers to start the year? There were. 10 SENATOR RITCHIE: Well, I guess in response, 11 and I mean no disrespect, you know, I am assuming 12 that the Commissioner didn't go into his position 13 saying that: Somewhere along the line, your 14 material, you'll get it. We just don't have it for 15 you yet. 16 So, I think it's kind of unfair that some of 17 the school districts, and specifically the teachers, 18 have been given a directive, especially at a time 19 that they now have evaluations, that they're going 20 to have to be held accountable for, when they don't 21 have the information they need in a timely manner. 22 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Ken, thank you very much. 23 KEN SLENTZ: You're welcome. 24 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Appreciate the time. 25 KEN SLENTZ: Thank you all. 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Next we will have New York 2 State United Teachers, Kathleen Ferguson and 3 Steve Allinger. 4 I'm going to take the liberty of saying this 5 because I don't know if she would say this. 6 Kathleen was the 2012 Teacher of the Year. 7 [Applause.] 8 Kathleen, of course, with that introduction, 9 don't feel any pressure at all. 10 [Laughter.] 11 KATHLEEN FERGUSON: Okay, I won't. 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Welcome. 13 KATHLEEN FERGUSON: Thank you so much. 14 Are you ready? 15 SENATOR FLANAGAN: (Nods head.) 16 KATHLEEN FERGUSON: Okay. 17 I'd like to first, of course, thank you so 18 much, Senator Flanagan, and members of the 19 Senate Committee on Education, for having me here 20 today. 21 And I am so deeply honored that you're 22 willing to hear my thoughts on all of these 23 incredibly important topics that are really at the 24 heart of teaching today. 25 I do represent the Schenectady City School 1 District which has 800 passionately dedicated 2 teachers working today, and every day, to improve 3 the lives of their students. 4 And more than that, I speak on behalf of the 5 teachers of New York State who are in the trenches, 6 and handling each of these different aspects of the 7 Common Core, APPR, and testing each and every day 8 that they're out there teaching. 9 More importantly, I'm here because of my 10 students. 11 As you know already, I teach second grade, 12 and, although we don't have the 3-through-8 testing 13 that's going on in other grade levels, we are one of 14 those grade levels that are using the pre-imposed 15 testing to determine both student achievement and 16 teacher effectiveness. 17 And, I'm speaking on behalf of my students 18 who, in September, look at me in the morning and 19 say, "Are we going to do science today?" with a big 20 smile on their face. 21 And I say, "I'm sorry, sweetie, we have to 22 take another test." 23 And then their smile drops, and their 24 shoulders droop, and some of them don't ask why, but 25 some of them do. 1 Some of them say to me, "Why are we doing 2 another test?" 3 And my response is, "Because we have to." 4 And that's not really an acceptable response, 5 but it's the one that I've got. 6 Now, as a teacher who works, and has worked, 7 with first- and second-graders, I really consider it 8 to be my primary responsibility to lay that 9 foundation for kids, for students, for learners, who 10 come into my classroom. 11 My responsibility is to build a love of 12 learning. 13 I'm there to help them develop those 14 critical-thinking skills, but I'm also there to make 15 them see school as a place of safety, of interest, 16 and of value; something that they're going to want 17 to come to every day. 18 And when we have tests in every subject 19 almost every day of September, it's incredibly 20 difficult to lay a foundation of comfort and joy in 21 school, when, every day, I have to send them to 22 music or gym or art, and say to them, "Today you're 23 taking another test," and they're only 7 years old. 24 What does say it about our education system, 25 and testing in general, when we have the 1 professional-development day, and one whole grade 2 level spends the day learning how to make 3 bubble sheets so that they can give more tests? 4 I'm not comfortable with a system that's 5 supporting that kind of development. 6 The teachers I know and work with in my 7 school district, and all the teachers I've met in my 8 travels throughout New York State, embrace 9 accountability. 10 We embrace it. 11 We totally believe that we should be held 12 accountable, and that we should be valued for the 13 level of effective teaching that we do in our 14 classrooms each and every day, but, we have to 15 ensure that educators are being judged on a 16 curriculum that they have all of the resources they 17 need to deliver, that, they have the tools to be 18 that effective educator that we're all seeking to 19 be. 20 Unfortunately, this is not happening. 21 As you know, we all got our APPR scores. 22 They didn't come out until the beginning of 23 this year, even though the observations and testing 24 took place last year. 25 And, it's been a challenge. 1 The day that they came out was filled with 2 tears in my district, and the repercussions are 3 still lasting. 4 There's a teacher in my district named Sam 5 who's been teaching for more than 20 years, and Sam 6 is someone I looked up to: a person who stayed after 7 school, a person who makes people laugh, a person 8 who works with our neediest students. 9 And Sam is now considered ineffective, and 10 that is because of his test scores. 11 The other measures on his APPR all determined 12 that he was either "effective" or 13 "highly effective," but his test scores, calculated 14 into the final score, brought him down to 15 "ineffective," and so what does that mean for Sam? 16 Well, Sam has to have a teacher-improvement 17 plan. 18 Sam has to observe other teachers. 19 So I say to you: How is observing other 20 teachers going to make his test scores rise? 21 The test scores of students who have been in 22 a broken system, where they have to fail for several 23 years before they can receive the help they need in 24 education to achieve, these students who are working 25 with Sam several years below grade level, and are 1 taking a test that is absurdly beyond their 2 capability, how is observing another teacher going 3 to help Sam become even developing? 4 Sam has comes to school every day 5 demoralized. 6 Sam has said on more than one occasion, that 7 Sam does not want to teach anymore. 8 And Sam once told me that the hardest part of 9 the day is getting out of bed in the morning. 10 And what about me? 11 I am the New York State Teacher of the Year, 12 2012, and prior to that, I was the Schenectady City 13 School District Teacher of the Year in 2010. 14 I've also received other awards. 15 Within two years, I was given an award called 16 "The Red Apple Quality of Life" for teaching, and 17 there was two of them. 18 After that, I received the 19 California Casualty Award of Teaching Excellence and 20 an NEA Global Learning Fellowship, but I am not 21 highly effective, according to my APPR scores. 22 I am not highly effective. 23 How is this possible? My scores. 24 According to every aspect of my evaluation, 25 I was not only highly effective, but the e-mail that 1 I got from my principal said: I'm just going to 2 stop inputting data now. You can stop giving me 3 things, there isn't anymore room. 4 I don't claim to be highly effective for 5 every second of every day, because I'm a human being 6 and I do have moments where I go, Oh, my gosh, that 7 lesson was not good. 8 But, I am highly effective, except for my 9 scores, because I work with the special-needs 10 population. 11 And so when I got my scores, I felt down, 12 because I want to be highly effective. 13 And I'm glad I'm effective, but I want to be 14 highly effective. 15 So I sat on the couch next to my husband, and 16 I said, in 100 percent complete sincerity, "I guess 17 I'll try harder." 18 And then I laughed at my own self, because 19 I said to myself after that, How can I work harder 20 for my children to pass these tests, because I'm 21 already highly effective in every way? 22 This system does not make sense in the way 23 that it is being implemented. 24 We have not had the time to become highly 25 effective in the curriculum we've been given. 1 Using test scores to determine our 2 effectiveness is clearly something that does not 3 even match up with the system. 4 In addition to that, if I'm to be highly 5 effective, and if I'm to close the achievement gap 6 in my high-needs district, I'm going to need more 7 resources. 8 We don't have the appropriate state resources 9 to implement the Common Core or the instruction we 10 need. 11 Did I start the first day of school with what 12 I needed? 13 Let me tell you about another day. 14 Just the other day, I was sitting in my 15 classroom, and the first-grade teacher across the 16 hall walked in and said, "I'm going to have to write 17 out 24 spelling lists by hand. Do you have any 18 paper?" 19 And I said, "Yes," the little newsprint 20 writing paper that tears if you erase it. 21 I said, "Why are you doing that?" 22 She said, "Because there's no more copy paper 23 in the building again. There's none." 24 And this isn't the first time. 25 So I said, "Well, I bought copy paper. Would 1 you look to have some of mine?" 2 And I gave her some of mine. 3 But this is a regular occurrence. 4 We don't have the copy paper, the pencils, 5 the books, and more importantly, we don't have the 6 teachers we need. 7 If I'm to get these students, these students 8 like Eternity who is two years below grade level 9 right now, if I'm going to be teaching her 10 Common Core, and trying to raise her level of 11 awareness, I need another reading group for her, but 12 I don't have the reading teacher to do that. 13 And so what am I doing? 14 I'm not teaching a little bit of 15 social studies or science every day so I can provide 16 her with an additional reading group. 17 It's only one, but that's all I can do with 18 my time, because I am trying to teach to the 19 Common Core. 20 I have spent a lot of money on school 21 supplies. 22 I think you've probably heard that. 23 I checked my tally this morning. 24 It was $787 and change since January. 25 I keep my receipts for my taxes. 1 Now, education funding is still at the 2 2008 and 2009 levels for more than 70 percent of our 3 schools. 4 It needs to change; we need more resources. 5 So what do I want? What am I here for? 6 I'm here because I absolutely, 100 percent, 7 believe that all of our children can succeed. 8 I am here because I am a believer of 9 children. 10 And my ask to you is to help us, by enforcing 11 a prohibition on the standardized testing, 12 especially at the pre-K-through-2 level, to give us 13 a moratorium on the state testing that we're doing 14 right now, to give us that deep breath that we do 15 need, because we don't have the supplies, the 16 resources, or the teachers we need. 17 I am a believer in our children. 18 I talk about this wherever I go. 19 I believe that every child has the ability to 20 succeed. 21 And I am absolutely committed to using 22 everything I have to do that, and I'm just asking 23 for the time and the resources, and for every 24 teacher in our state to be given that same chance. 25 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Tkaczyk. 2 SENATOR TKACZYK: Thank you, Ms. Ferguson. 3 I have no doubt you are highly effective and 4 a wonderful teacher, and I want to thank you for 5 what you do, and for coming here. 6 And, I know you were at a public forum that 7 we had in the Capital District earlier this year. 8 So I'm -- it's important that we understand 9 what's happening in the classroom, but I wanted to 10 add to what you're describing in your classroom. 11 Your school district is Schenectady. 12 Are you seeing increased enrollment in your 13 school? 14 You're seeing more kids? 15 KATHLEEN FERGUSON: The only thing I can 16 speak to in terms of enrollment is, in my class, my 17 class size is bigger than it has been, typically, in 18 the last few years. 19 And when I say that, I will clearly define 20 that as, a second-grade teacher can have up to 21 24 students. 22 And while I haven't had 24 students since 23 I've been at Zoller, I have typically had 19 or 20 24 or 21. And this year I'm up to 22. 25 We have a great amount of mobility in our 1 district, but I believe our district numbers, in 2 terms of enrollment of students, has stayed around 3 10,000 for the past 2 or 3 years, to the best of my 4 knowledge. 5 SENATOR TKACZYK: Okay, I think you are 6 growing in enrollment size in the 7 Schenectady School District, so then you'd -- and 8 that we have had -- as you said, schools are funded 9 at 2008, 2009 levels, so, there's been a lot of 10 State-aid cuts over the years before we've 11 implemented the Common Core. 12 Do you feel you have enough teachers on hand 13 and administrators to help implement this new -- 14 the -- to get you to these new standards? 15 KATHLEEN FERGUSON: We absolutely do not have 16 the amount of teachers we need. 17 I don't know the exact numbers, but I know 18 that we've gone from, roughly, over 900 teachers to 19 about 800-and-some-odd teachers this year. 20 We've lost a significant number of teachers 21 in the past couple of years. 22 And, if I refer back to my other example, we 23 don't have enough reading teachers. 24 Someone said earlier, that, "What we really 25 need to do is to set our students on a trajectory to 1 be successful, and that we need a strong 2 early-education program." 3 I believe that was, Merryl Tisch said that. 4 I am early education, and I don't have enough 5 reading teachers to support the needs of my 6 students. 7 I'm not teaching science or social studies 8 for a portion of each of my day so that I can get to 9 that extra group and support their needs. 10 There are not enough teachers. 11 SENATOR TKACZYK: I mean, if just -- 12 STEVE ALLINGER: I'd like to elaborate on 13 that. 14 SENATOR TKACZYK: Yeah, go ahead. 15 STEVE ALLINGER: We've -- in addition to 16 being $4.3 billion below the statutory promise for 17 our foundation formula, and further cuts to the GEA, 18 there have been Title 1 cuts through the 19 sequestration. 20 And I think in New York State alone, between 21 IDA funding and Title 1, which would fund reading 22 teachers, we're down $113 million through the 23 first year of the sequestration. 24 Of course, it's in the offing again for 25 January. 1 And I think it's -- particularly, it has a 2 terrible effect in districts like Schenectady, which 3 probably have, what, almost 80 percent free and 4 reduced-price lunch? 5 KATHLEEN FERGUSON: That's correct. 6 STEVE ALLINGER: So these -- we talk about 7 uneven rollout, but there's also uneven capacity to 8 meet these challenges. 9 And districts like Schenectady which enroll a 10 highly disproportionate number of at-risk children 11 have been hit the hardest with the reductions in 12 funding, failure to implement the foundation formula 13 appropriately. 14 And then, of course, the overlay of 15 sequestration cuts, the federal government will 16 punish them further. 17 And these districts need the support, and 18 they don't have the capacity on their own to 19 implement curriculum. 20 And that's why they were depending on a 21 well-thought-out sequenced rollout of the 22 Common Core. 23 And, I urge you to support hitting the pause 24 button so we can recalibrate, implement this 25 properly. 1 And that means divulging the test scores, so 2 that -- the test questions, so that they can be used 3 to prepare kids in subsequent years. 4 It means transparency around the development 5 of those tests. 6 It means providing the curriculum material, 7 the supplies, the professional development. 8 And you'll hear later from the 9 Education Conference Board, which we're part of, 10 which lays out a program to do a proper sequencing 11 implementation. 12 But, you know, it more -- Katie is Teacher of 13 the Year. She's doing it in an incredibly 14 challenging school district. 15 I heard once that it's as difficult as 16 falling off slippery log to teach highly-advantaged 17 kids. 18 It's miraculous what she's been able to 19 accomplish in Schenectady. 20 SENATOR RITCHIE: Do you agree with the 21 ability of allowing parents to opt out of some of 22 these assessments if they don't believe the test is 23 appropriate for their child's developmental age? 24 KATHLEEN FERGUSON: I do think that parents 25 should have a say in where our education system is 1 going, particularly in regards to testing at this 2 point. 3 I think that, in many cases, particularly the 4 special-education topic that was brought up earlier, 5 the testing that we're doing is absurdly beyond 6 their level. 7 And, in some cases, teachers who are trying 8 to implement tests for the special-needs students 9 are having to create great numbers of test 10 questions, up in the area of hundreds, and spending 11 much time doing that, in order to fulfill the state 12 obligations regarding testing. 13 SENATOR TKACZYK: But could your time be 14 better spent in helping teach those children what 15 they really need to learn, rather than how to fill 16 out a bubble sheet, but, how to -- what is it that 17 they need to learn? 18 And it sounds like you're frustrated with the 19 time you have to spend on developing appropriate 20 test questions instead of teaching. 21 KATHLEEN FERGUSON: It's absolutely essential 22 that we have time for professional development for 23 understanding the Common Core, for developing and 24 providing resources to do those things, and for 25 determining what is best for our students. 1 All great teachers who are looking at their 2 students every day, we are using the Common Core as 3 a guide, but what you do, is you look at each of 4 your students, you look at the students as they work 5 in critical-thinking problems, and you determine 6 what each child needs to go from there. 7 That's what assessment is really for. 8 Assessment has many purposes, and truly one 9 of them is to report to your constituents, to your 10 parents, to your legislators. 11 But, the best assessment is the kind of 12 assessment that teachers do, which drives the 13 instruction for the children they have, and the 14 assessment that is appropriately defining what that 15 child is doing at that time, on that day, with that 16 material and curriculum that you've taught. 17 Formative assessments are what tells you 18 where you go with your curriculum. 19 The best thing that a teacher can do is use 20 assessment to drive their instruction, but that 21 assessment is not the high-stakes testing we're 22 talking about. 23 It's the individualized, formative kinds of 24 assessment that come with developmental-reading 25 stages. 1 What's instructional for them, was mentioned 2 earlier. 3 These are the things that our time is best 4 spent on. 5 Absolutely, I do agree and embrace the 6 concept of data-driven instruction, but without the 7 test questions being released to teachers, how are 8 we to use that information to drive our instruction? 9 What good are those scores doing teachers or 10 students right now? 11 I don't have an answer for that question. 12 But if we had the tests and we knew what 13 children were struggling with, we could use that to 14 drive our instruction. 15 SENATOR TKACZYK: Thank you. 16 Thank you for being here. 17 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you. 18 Steve. 19 STEVE ALLINGER: Just one thing, because 20 I wanted to touch on high school, because I know 21 it's the last hearing. 22 And, since you've started these series of 23 hearings -- 24 And I thank you for doing that, and I've 25 learned a lot just by attending these hearings. 1 -- our concerns have actually deepened as 2 we've drilled down into what is the state of 3 preparation for high school high-stakes 4 examinations. 5 We do not have any of the sequences for 6 English-language arts in place, as we meet here 7 today; neither ninth-grade, tenth-grade, 8 eleventh-grade modules. 9 And if we had the same result, which is a 10 precipitous drop of 20, 30, 40 points in the 11 eleventh-grade ELA, we will implode the graduation 12 rates. 13 New York should be justifiably proud of being 14 one of the top two states in the entire nation in 15 raising graduation rates while increasing rigor over 16 the last 10 years, and this is borne out by 17 "Education Week" and other national experts. 18 So we have also increased dramatically, the 19 amount of rigor in terms of advanced placement that 20 minority children take. It's more than doubled. 21 Even though we have this weird dichotomy 22 between doing well on the AP exam, and that's well 23 on the same grade-level Regents exam, we believe 24 that you've got to have a moratorium, to 25 recalibrate, to ensure that we have a proper 1 sequencing support, and that we maintain our 2 graduation rates that we've worked so hard to raise. 3 Thank you. 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you very much. 5 And congratulations again, Kathleen. 6 KATHLEEN FERGUSON: Thank you. 7 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Keep up the good work. 8 All right, we have to do a tad of juggling. 9 Sheila, you're gonna have to wait one second. 10 We have Mark Schneiderman. 11 Good morning. 12 MARK SCHNEIDERMAN: Good morning. 13 On behalf of the Software and Information 14 Industry Association, our member high-tech companies 15 thank you for allowing me to testify here this 16 morning, and thank you for accommodating my 17 schedule. 18 I'm Mark Schneiderman, SIIA senior director 19 of education policy. 20 I want to commend Senator Flanagan and the 21 Committee for holding these hearings to look at the 22 Regents Reform Agenda. 23 SIIA is the principal trade association for 24 the software and digital-content industry. 25 Among our 800-member companies, there are 1 about 200 that work with schools and universities, 2 providing various software applications, digital 3 content, online learning, and related technology. 4 Many of these involve the use of student 5 information. 6 They're helping to support teachers in 7 instruction, helping to personalize learning, and 8 helping to support school operations and 9 administration. 10 And, of course, all SIIA members are looking 11 to our nation's schools to provide them with the 12 skills of a high-tech workforce. 13 My testimony today will look at some of the 14 ways that students, families, schools, and teachers 15 are using technology and data to improve education. 16 Also, touch on some of the questions and issues 17 around student-data privacy and security. 18 My written testimony includes some unrelated, 19 other policy recommendations from my testimony last 20 year before Governor Cuomo's Reform Commission. 21 So, education technology and student 22 information are supporting our schools and 23 increasingly -- in increasingly powerful ways. 24 Let me cite a few quick examples. 25 First, our technologies are helping to us 1 support the personalized learning needs of all 2 students. 3 Technology helps teachers differentiate 4 instruction, provides the supports -- supports a 5 range of student learning needs, preferences, and 6 performance levels. 7 Adaptive software, with embedded assessments 8 and content repositories, allows teachers to 9 dynamically adjust to where students are at a given 10 time and to support their unique needs. 11 And, data from those and other systems helps 12 teachers and families to better diagnose, track, and 13 support students. 14 Secondly, technology helps deepen learning 15 and motivates students, helping engage out students 16 and fueling their creativity and their exploration 17 in their lifelong learning. 18 The technologies range from virtual field 19 trips to interactive courseware. 20 Multi-media visual representations help 21 translate complex content into understandable 22 information for students, such as simulating a 23 chemistry experiment. 24 Third, technology supports communication and 25 collaboration. 1 Participation in controlled virtual 2 communities allows students to connect with peers 3 and experts, inspiring them to explore and 4 collaborate. 5 The online opportunities provide teachers 6 access to learning opportunities at various times, 7 and also provides teacher -- families, I'm sorry, 8 access to information and the ability to communicate 9 better with teachers. 10 And, finally, technology helps educators 11 better manage the education enterprise. 12 Like all businesses, schools are harnessing 13 technology to increase productivity and to carry out 14 complex organizational tasks. 15 Data management and communication 16 technologies are supporting their efforts in 17 accounting and human resources and scheduling in all 18 areas. 19 All of these efficiencies through technology 20 are helping them to focus more time on teaching and 21 learning. 22 Essential to all of these efforts is 23 information; the collection used in sharing of 24 student information for educational purposes. 25 This is nothing new. 1 Our educational system has long used 2 information, and applied that for operations and to 3 drive decisions. 4 And our education system has long worked with 5 third-party providers to help support those services 6 that take advantage of and use data to support the 7 school. 8 From school bus routes, to student 9 assessments, to student lunch accounts, to the 10 teacher payroll systems, our schools have a long 11 track record of using data effectively; a long track 12 record of working with third-party providers to do 13 so. 14 New technology tools and analytical 15 techniques are enhancing that capacity, allowing 16 educators to manage more data more effectively and 17 in more sophisticated ways. 18 These data tools are empowering educators and 19 families to better understand where students are, 20 and to support their performance in more real time. 21 No longer must teachers necessarily wait for 22 the end-of-the-year results of test scores to have 23 information about where their students are 24 performing; no longer must administrators 25 necessarily pour through endless files to understand 1 gaps or patterns. 2 Educator interests in effectively using data 3 is strong, but progress is slow, and requires more 4 investments and more support, and leadership from 5 legislators such as yourselves. 6 In response to an annual SI Educator Survey 7 of teachers and administrators, when asked your 8 interest in using student-performance data and 9 related systems to support instruction, educators in 10 New York responded with their interests of 3.8 on a 11 scale of 1 to 4. 12 Their current level of use, as reported by 13 them, was only 2.7. 14 Similarly, with regard to using data and 15 information systems to drive school-level 16 decision-making and continuous improvement process, 17 educators reported a goal of 3.81, but an actual 18 usage of only 2.49, excuse me, on a scale of 1 to 4. 19 That data mirrors our national -- the 20 national picture. 21 As student personal information is used in 22 more powerful ways to improve schools and education, 23 schools and service providers have a shared 24 responsibility to protect the privacy and security 25 of student information. 1 One way they do this has been limiting the 2 use of student personal information to legitimate 3 educational purposes. 4 There are policies and procedures at all 5 levels, in place, to prevent unauthorized and 6 inappropriate uses. 7 Education leaders recognized this 8 responsibility. 9 Again, in SI's annual survey, the use of 10 security tools to protect student data and privacy 11 has long been the top reported use by educators, 12 coming in at about a 3.4 on a scale of 1 to 4 in how 13 educators are rating their use of those 14 technologies. 15 Of course, this is not just a matter of good 16 practice or good will. 17 Schools, and, therefore, their providers, are 18 required to do so by the Federal Family Educational 19 Rights and Privacy Act; or "FERPA." 20 Secondly, service providers are also bound by 21 contract, and those contracts have penalties for 22 unauthorized and inappropriate disclosures. 23 Third, there's a market incentive for 24 providers to act responsibly in this area. 25 If they don't, they're gonna lose the 1 confidence of their users, of educators and 2 customers. 3 School-service providers do not have an 4 independent role to play in our school system. They 5 cannot just use personal student information as they 6 see fit. 7 They work for educational institutions. 8 They're collecting information about students 9 for schools, under the explicit guidance and 10 approval of those schools and agencies, and they're 11 using that information for the purposes authorized 12 by their customers, by those schools and agencies. 13 Service providers certainly have a 14 responsibility to continuously review and improve 15 policies and procedures that are necessary to ensure 16 continued confidentiality of student information and 17 the integrity of data. 18 Parents, of course, have the most critical 19 role. 20 If schools and agencies want to share 21 personal student information with third parties for 22 purposes beyond those narrowly defined by the 23 federal FERPA law that I referenced, the law 24 requires parental content. 25 Some have called for parental consent for all 1 uses and all sharing of student personal -- student 2 information with third parties, even for core 3 educational purposes, but this is unrealistic and 4 impractical. 5 Schools need to collect this information for 6 operational purposes and to provide services to 7 students. 8 They must share this information with 9 third-party providers who they continue to depend on 10 to provide key services and supports. 11 They cannot possibly do this if there is an 12 opt-out for all uses of personal information. 13 And as importantly, students who are opting 14 out may face unfair disadvantages. 15 Some students would have access to certain 16 educational purposes -- or, educational resources, 17 I'm sorry, while those who opt out would be denied 18 those opportunities. 19 In conclusion: As our educational system 20 continues to better leverage the role of technology 21 and information to improve education, I would look 22 forward to working with you and other stakeholders 23 to ensure both effective use, and to ensure 24 continued safe-data practices. 25 I'd be happy to answer any questions. 1 Thank you. 2 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mark, I'm just going to 3 jump in. 4 We in -- when we were in Syracuse, we had 5 folks in from Washington who commented on some of 6 the aspects of privacy. 7 And, of all the things we're talking about, 8 I think this is an area that is a little bit more, 9 kind of a morphous than the testing issues, and, 10 there doesn't seem to be a wealth of problems that 11 exist today. 12 But from all the people we've been hearing 13 from, in particular parents, they are deeply 14 concerned about the dissemination of private data. 15 And, the folks who testified in Syracuse 16 actually said that FERPA is basically good, but 17 New York should be strengthen it by enacting our own 18 law. 19 And then you have all the people who are 20 coming in saying that inBloom is like the worst 21 thing in the world, because of the cloud, and 22 everything and the potential, "potential," for 23 disaster. 24 In your estimation, is FERPA adequate? 25 Should we be enacting something in New York? 1 And could you also please comment on the 2 centralization of data as opposed to keeping it at 3 the local level. 4 MARK SCHNEIDERMAN: So in terms of the 5 centralization of data, there are advantages and 6 disadvantages of doing that. 7 I think what's key to keep in mind with the 8 guide to the privacy and security, is that 9 centralization can actually enhance technological 10 security and capacity when you're -- when you have a 11 concentration of resources, to be able to provide 12 that. 13 That's one of the benefits of cloud -- the 14 so-called "cloud computing," where you have a level 15 of security that can't necessarily be provided by 16 each institution. 17 I think, on top that, though, is -- there are 18 issues around policies. 19 And I think what's key is providing -- 20 wherever the data is housed, to continue to ensure 21 that local districts have control over that data. 22 They're working on policies with their local 23 constituents and there's transparency around that, 24 and I think that transparency is a key item. 25 In terms of the law, FERPA is -- the 1 U.S. Department of Education is continuing to 2 provide guidance around that. 3 I think what's needed is perhaps support 4 and -- at the local level, so that people better 5 understand what their obligations are, what the 6 opportunities are. 7 So that level of always capacity-building is 8 certainly needed. 9 I'll stop there. 10 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you. 11 Senator Tkaczyk. 12 SENATOR TKACZYK: You made a statement at the 13 end of your testimony, that if a parent decides to 14 opt out of providing this type of information, they 15 would not have access to some educational 16 opportunities. 17 Could you explain what you mean by that? 18 MARK SCHNEIDERMAN: Yes, certainly. 19 So there may be a case where a school is 20 working with a third-party provider of whatever 21 sort, and that third-party provider is providing 22 educational resources. 23 It could be an online instruction, it could 24 be an after-school program, or during a -- a pullout 25 program during school, it could be using educational 1 software that's a -- and in each of those cases, 2 information about that student may be needed to 3 power that up, to roster that application, to give 4 the provider, whether it's a piece of software or an 5 individual, information they need to carry out their 6 job. 7 So if -- and what they've been tasked to do. 8 So if students -- I'm sorry, if parents are 9 given the opportunity to opt out on a case-by-case 10 basis of those, they may lose opportunities. 11 And, also, those students would then not be 12 able to participate in something, because their data 13 is necessary. 14 It also creates a very unmanageable situation 15 for schools and administrators when they have to 16 juggle who is able to do what in these cases where 17 they view those learning opportunities as core to 18 their -- core to the curriculum. 19 SENATOR TKACZYK: So that the educational 20 program might not be tailored to them specifically? 21 Is that what you mean? 22 MARK SCHNEIDERMAN: No, they simply may not 23 be able to participate at all. 24 I mean, it's gonna vary. 25 There's a lot of, probably, continuum of 1 situations that could come up. 2 In some cases, it may mean they can't 3 participate at all, though, if the third party can't 4 be given their name, their contact information, to 5 take part. 6 In some cases, it may be a situation where, 7 yes, it may be a level of sophistication of the 8 resource that can't be applied because we don't know 9 enough about the student. 10 Or, they may be an anonymous entity, and that 11 anonymity may not be sufficient in a certain 12 situation. 13 But I think in all these cases, when we're 14 working with third-party providers, those 15 third parties are using that information only as 16 directed by the institution, and to deliver for the 17 educational purpose for which it was obtained. 18 SENATOR TKACZYK: Thank you. 19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Ritchie. 20 SENATOR RITCHIE: Just one question: Has 21 there ever been an instance where information has 22 gotten out by a third party? 23 MARK SCHNEIDERMAN: I can't point to any 24 instances. 25 I mean, there's a -- it's a big world out 1 there, so I'm not sure I could say definitively, but 2 I -- nothing that I'm aware of in the education 3 situation. 4 SENATOR RITCHIE: So considering the 5 advancement, do you see a potential that that could 6 happen? 7 MARK SCHNEIDERMAN: I think the way the 8 technologies are advancing, I think they're -- we're 9 moving towards evermore secure technology 10 environments. 11 The cloud environments, for example, as 12 I mentioned before, enable a expertise that's not 13 available at the local level. 14 They also have basically -- have basic 15 physical change -- physical benefits of posting data 16 by third parties. 17 For example, file cabinets left open, fire; 18 all kinds of situations that happen in a physical 19 world, that in a traditional computer room in a 20 school, where other models -- remote models can help 21 guard against some of those problems. 22 SENATOR RITCHIE: And I appreciate the 23 comment. 24 I just know it seems like, on a weekly basis, 25 when I pick up the paper, whether it's a bank or a 1 credit union or someone who thinks that they have 2 safely secured the information, it gets out, and the 3 problem is tenfold because they have everything. 4 So, I think there is a little bit of cause 5 for concern if you're a parent and we're collecting 6 all this kind of information that we can't really 7 specifically say why we need the information. 8 So, your response to Senator Tkaczyk, I -- 9 you know, I guess, if you could clarify on what 10 you're saying, that a child would be left out of 11 some program, might be helpful for me. 12 MARK SCHNEIDERMAN: Sure. 13 I mean, I think anytime a school is working 14 with a third party where there needs to be personal 15 student information collected so that that 16 third party can administrator that program, deliver 17 that service, I think are instances where the 18 student could end up either being denied that 19 service or receive a lesser service if that 20 information is not available to that third party. 21 So, you know, think about a school bus route; 22 so those are third parties and, oftentimes, that are 23 delivering that. There maybe a piece of software 24 that was used to determine that school bus route. 25 You would think a parent wouldn't opt out of 1 that, but if they did. 2 So, I mean, sometimes you have to look at 3 very -- just very practical examples of where these 4 things could come into play. 5 SENATOR RITCHIE: Well, I hope we haven't 6 come to the point that common sense would not 7 overrule, that if your child was going to ride on a 8 school bus, that because they didn't opt in to the 9 third-party information, that your child would be 10 left off the bus. 11 [Laughter.] 12 SENATOR RITCHIE: So, I'll just leave it at 13 that. 14 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you very much. 15 MARK SCHNEIDERMAN: Okay, thank you. 16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Sheila. 17 SHEILA KAPLAN: Good morning. 18 I'd like to say hello again to 19 Senator Tkaczyk, and thank Senator Flanagan for 20 another invitation. 21 Senator Ritchie, we have not met, but I look 22 forward to future conversations. 23 And, Senator Seward, I have listened to you 24 during sessions; because I don't have to watch. 25 I can just hear the voices, and you only talk when 1 there's something to say. 2 I really respect that. 3 I couldn't be more delighted that I have 4 followed -- that you asked me to follow that. 5 You knew I would -- 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Sheila, I did not plan it 7 that way. 8 I'm just putting it that way; okay? 9 SHEILA KAPLAN: But it could not have been 10 planned better. 11 I encourage all of you to look at the 12 submission that the software industry submitted to 13 the U.S. Department of Education regarding the 14 2011 rule changes. 15 I don't know if you're aware of who the 16 software industry represents, but it's everyone who 17 has anything to do with software. 18 I do agree with some things that he said. 19 Sometimes the cloud can be more protective. 20 Sometimes parents might be opting out of 21 something that might -- they perhaps shouldn't be, 22 and that's what I'm here to speak about. 23 I went back over my testimony from 24 October 29th, and I talked about directory 25 information, but I never said what directory 1 information is. 2 So if you allow me to just look at my notes 3 here just for a second, so I give you the correct 4 information and definitions. 5 Basically "directory information" is 6 information that's not considered harmful if it's 7 disclosed. 8 It can include a student's name, address, 9 telephone number, electronic mail, photograph, date 10 and place of birth, major field of study, dates of 11 attendance, grade level, participation in recognized 12 activities and sports, weight and height, degrees, 13 most recent education agency, and student ID, but it 14 cannot be a, uhm -- an ID will get you into the 15 database or it cannot be a social security number. 16 Okay, so if you look at this list, you'd say, 17 okay, well, what's so terrible about date and place 18 of birth? 19 It's kind of an inconsistency with FERPA. 20 They say, in FERPA, you are never allowed to 21 disclose a student's gender, ethnicity, or race. 22 But if you're born in Mexico, good chance 23 you're Mexican. 24 If you're born in Russia, it's good chance 25 you're Russian. 1 With your date and place of birth, if you 2 have your mother's maiden name, or even just your 3 ZIP code, you can have your identity stolen. 4 I don't remember what year, maybe 2010, the 5 U.S. Department of Education hired a chief privacy 6 officer for the first time. 7 Her name is Kathleen Styles. 8 And what I noticed was that, before, where it 9 said directory information is information which 10 would not be considered harmful if disclosed, it now 11 says, "Directory information, when combined with 12 something else, could cause harm or embarrassment." 13 So, let's go over what "opt in" is, and 14 "opt out." 15 Currently, directory information is, this 16 information that I just read to you, can be given to 17 anyone who can give it to anyone, unless you opt ` 18 out. 19 So, essentially, if you don't opt out, a 20 parent is consenting to give their child's contact 21 information to a stranger. 22 What's "opt in"? 23 "Opt in" is saying that, I acknowledge -- and 24 it's, actually, it's opting in with consent -- 25 I acknowledge that I see what it is, and I give 1 consent to opt in to this -- to disclose this 2 information. 3 I know you have a couple of those in front of 4 you right now. 5 One of them is S5930, and one is S5932, and 6 they have companion bills in the Assembly. 7 S5932 deals with opt in, and S5930 deals with 8 opt out. 9 Both of them have their good and bad parts. 10 The last time I spoke, I talked about a 11 Directory Information Bill that I was involved with, 12 going back to 2006. 13 Senator Seward, you were not there, but it 14 was actually something that Senator Morahan wanted 15 to do before he passed away. He was very concerned 16 about special-ed kids and this information being 17 given out. 18 You cannot disclose a child's gender, but you 19 can look at a picture and tell a student's gender. 20 You can tell if a child maybe, perhaps, has 21 some kind of a special need, from a picture. 22 So it was good thinking on his part that he 23 said, "Come into my office, I want to see you." 24 So I also mentioned in my last testimony, 25 about the opposition that there was to a bill, 1 S2357, and A8474. 2 As I said before, S2357 passed the Senate 3 two times: once through the full Senate, and then a 4 second time in the Education Committee. 5 And nothing ever happened, really, in the 6 Assembly on that. 7 And I mentioned the opposition, and I asked 8 you to take a look at it, but, I'm not going to 9 leave it to chance. 10 These are some of the comments that people 11 had. 12 They said that -- let me look a second. 13 "That it's not consistent with FERPA, the 14 Directory Information Bill." 15 That's just not true. 16 SENATOR TKACZYK: Could you -- I'm sorry. 17 Could you just explain what 2357 does, the 18 bill? 19 SHEILA KAPLAN: Yes, I can, and thank you 20 very much for asking me. 21 That is the Student Privacy Protection Act 22 that's in the package. 23 And what it does is, it breaks down directory 24 information into "disclosable" and "protected." 25 So disclosable directory information may be 1 the child's picture, so they can have it in a 2 yearbook, their height and weight for a roster. 3 It might have their honors, the recognitions 4 that they may have. 5 So it's pretty much seen as being not very 6 sensitive information if disclosed. 7 Until a couple weeks ago, when Forbes had 8 something about a gay list being sold, and these 9 students opted in, and it wasn't even through the 10 school. 11 But I got to thinking, well, if you're a 12 member of an LGBT club, that's public information. 13 It got really bad. 14 The FTC stepped in a couple of years ago and 15 said, if you do not opt out of the directory 16 information, this information is public and it can 17 be FOILed. 18 And I need to let you know that the 19 government and law enforcement are the largest 20 purchasers of directory -- no, of student 21 information. 22 I can't specifically say directory 23 information, but I think it is directory 24 information. 25 The rest of the bill says that a child's 1 contact information, their name -- not their name, 2 their name remains as disclosable -- their phone 3 number, their e-mail address, and their regular 4 address, anything that can contact a child, that 5 that has to be opt in. It's with parent consent. 6 Now, what is different about this bill from, 7 let's say, 5930, which is an opt-out bill, is that 8 this bill is opt out, and it's opt in. 9 And, what's different about this bill being 10 an opt-in, from 5932, is in regards to directory 11 information. 12 In the Student Privacy Protection Act, you 13 may not, even with parental consent, sell the 14 information, you cannot use it to profile a child. 15 Even with consent, schools are not in the 16 brokering business. 17 We should not be brokering -- this data 18 should not be going out through the school. 19 So those are the two -- that's -- those are 20 the Bills. 21 Other opposition was -- let me read a little 22 bit. 23 Well, first of all, they say it's consistent. 24 They say it's consistent with FERPA, and 25 that's not true. 1 They say that FERPA, in the rule changes, 2 said that you can categorize directory information 3 and restrict disclosure. 4 We could always do that, that didn't really 5 change anything. 6 And I think I -- did I mention the health and 7 safety, that if you don't give this information out, 8 that in the health and safety emergency, none of 9 this is true, none of the opposition is true. 10 So, again, I encourage you to -- I do think 11 that that bill is still in there. 12 I can -- I do encourage you to look at it. 13 Okay, let's see. 14 As far as the opposition, it got as bad as, 15 I actually had a lobbyist laughing at me, saying, 16 Oh, you're kidding. You really think that someone 17 might rape a 13-year-old walking home from tennis, 18 because they had her e-mail address or her cell 19 phone number and they text her and pretended they 20 were someone else? 21 So this is -- I'm not messing around here, 22 this is important information. 23 Trying to think what else I might need to say 24 here, if I've a couple of minutes more. 25 There's something else called "PPRA," and 1 it's pupil rights. 2 I've it on here. 3 And I did not mention this before, I did not 4 see this before. 5 And while I'm looking for this, really what's 6 happening with directory information, and probably 7 very much with 5732, is that the Fair Information 8 Practice Principles are being applied. 9 And if you're not familiar with the 10 Fair Information -- excuse me, Fair Information 11 Practice Principles, I can go over them, but I can 12 tell you that, you, as adults, have this protection 13 and students do not. 14 Children under the age of 13 have this 15 protection online, and it's been expanded. 16 The FTC oversees them. 17 But the U.S. Department of Education oversees 18 directory information and FERPA, and PPRA. 19 So what "PPRA" is, it's the Pupil -- it's the 20 Protection of Pupil Rights Amendment. 21 Well, I came across something called the 22 "School Improvement Grants," which is, I guess, now 23 labeled the "turn-around schools" in New York, and 24 it goes to the most at-risk neediest kids. 25 And there's a survey that I saw, that they 1 have -- it should be opt in because it's funded by 2 the U.S. Department of Education, but I'm guessing 3 maybe it's opt out, since it's provided by a third 4 party. 5 So, there's still some discussion, and 6 I actually have that question open with the 7 U.S. Department of Education. 8 I saw them at a hearing in Maryland, and 9 I asked them, "Has the question?" -- and he was 10 stumped. 11 But these are some of the questions that they 12 asked on a survey: 13 "Think of your four best friends, the friends 14 you feel closest to. 15 "In the past year, how many of your best 16 friends have: 17 "Smoked cigarettes? 18 "Tried beer? 19 "Wine or hard liquor?" 20 Like, vodka, whiskey, they actually name 21 them. 22 "Used marijuana? 23 "Used LSD? 24 "Cocaine? 25 "Amphetamines? 1 "Carried a gun?" 2 Let's see. 3 "During the past year, did you bet? 4 "Are you in a gang? 5 "Did you attack some -- 6 The questions, I would never -- first of all, 7 I would never answer them honestly, most likely, if 8 I were asked those questions. 9 And that is one of the last questions, 10 "How honest were you in answering these questions?" 11 I wouldn't encourage my child, certainly, to 12 participate in this. 13 And there's two parts. 14 It's okay, if this is funded by the 15 U.S. Department of Education -- actually it's not 16 funded by the U.S. Department of Education, 17 actually. 18 It's funded by the Center for Disease 19 Control. 20 So, is this information protected, or not? 21 Is it part of a longitudinal database, or 22 not? 23 I can tell you it's an online survey. 24 And I don't -- I can't go into anymore detail 25 what that means. 1 I would just be very concerned on having this 2 information be part of an online survey that my 3 child was taking. 4 Let's see. 5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Sheila, I need you to wrap 6 up. 7 SHEILA KAPLAN: We're done? 8 Okay, good. 9 Well, then, I'm just gonna say two more 10 things; okay? 11 I would never allow my child to take one of 12 those tablets home; a Common Core-aligned tablet 13 that has a camera and a microphone. 14 And I would like to correct the record. 15 I did teach my daughter a nursery rhyme. 16 Senator Flanagan and Senator Tkaczyk might 17 know what I'm talking about. 18 And that was, every night, I would take my 19 three children into the desert, in Tucson, Arizona, 20 and we would say "Star light, star bright, first 21 star I see tonight, I wish I may, I wish I might, 22 have the wish I wish tonight." 23 And if you've ever been in Tucson, Arizona, 24 you see those stars 365 days out of the year. 25 Thank you. 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: You have a good day, 2 Sheila. 3 Thank you for your time. 4 SHEILA KAPLAN: Thank you. 5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: One more switch, 6 Mr. Reidy, from the School Superintendents, and 7 then we'll be going to several parents who are next, 8 who are patiently waiting. 9 ROBERT REIDY: Thank you, Senator. 10 Thank you, Committee members. 11 New York State Council of School 12 Superintendents is grateful to be here and offer 13 testimony, and discuss how we can, together, advance 14 shared goals of improving opportunities for 15 children. 16 As Senator Flanagan noted, my name is 17 Bob Reidy, executive director of the New York State 18 Council. 19 With me is Bob Lowery, our deputy director. 20 I think most of you know Bob. 21 I came to the council after 40 years in 22 education, 32 of those years as a school 23 superintendent. 24 I want to start by just summarizing quickly, 25 I know you've read our testimony: How did we get 1 here, and why all of this discontent? 2 We think there are four reasons. 3 First of all, there were two major, very 4 complex initiatives implemented almost 5 simultaneously, which was a real heavy lift for 6 school districts, for teachers, and for all 7 educators. 8 Secondly, as you've heard before, both, the 9 implementations were rushed and they were 10 inadequately supported. 11 And we hear this; I hear this. 12 I travel all across the state, talking to 13 superintendents, and I hear this consistently. 14 Third, we believe that the new evaluation 15 requirements, the system that districts were put in, 16 really created this proliferation of testing. 17 Senator, you mentioned earlier about pre- and 18 post-testing. 19 A lot of districts are doing pre- and 20 post-testing. 21 Although, technically, it's not mandated, 22 people are doing it because they want to document 23 student growth, because these are very high-stake 24 tests. 25 And, finally, we would submit that New York's 1 approach to implementation was backwards. 2 The initiative should have started with a 3 focus on instruction. 4 And by that I mean, it should have started 5 with curriculum development, moved into the 6 appropriate training and support that educators 7 required. 8 We should have, and the first, in the 9 beginning of implementation, we should have 10 monitored and adjusted what was happening. 11 And then, finally, we should have held 12 educators and children accountable for what was 13 happening. 14 Couple of comments about the Common Core: 15 Once again, we note, and our colleagues 16 across the state note, that this was rushed and 17 inadequately supported; 18 Resources have not been made available in a 19 timely manner; 20 And funding these resources have been 21 inadequate. 22 SED has acknowledged the complexity of the 23 Common Core implementation and said that the -- 24 stated that the Common Core demands a significant 25 shift in the way we teach children. 1 And it surely does. 2 I refer you to page 3 of our testimony, where 3 we have the graph on page 3, where it notes that 4 large majorities of our superintendents reported 5 they lacked the resources needed to enable students 6 to meet the Common Core expectations. 7 That is a significant piece of information. 8 A couple of points on APPR and testing: 9 We all know that there are fewer standardized 10 tests developed today in New York than there were in 11 2010; however, there's a great perception that 12 there's more emphasis on testing today than ever 13 before. 14 We think that can be attributed to the 15 additional tests students have experienced as part 16 of this total evaluation process. 17 Some of the models I mentioned earlier 18 require pre- and post-testing, and we think that's 19 added to it. 20 I want to acknowledge some progress, because 21 it would be -- it wouldn't be constructive or fair 22 not to -- to only recite criticisms. 23 Regarding support for the Common Core, in a 24 survey we did this past summer, statewide, 25 75 percent of the superintendents that responded to 1 that survey answered that the new standards will 2 raise educational equality. 3 We believe the Common Core has potential, but 4 we also believe that the Common Core is not perfect. 5 Educators have raised concerns about whether 6 the standards are developmentally appropriate at all 7 grade levels. 8 Some colleagues have stated that it's much 9 too early to determine the -- what impact the 10 Common Core will have on teaching and learning. 11 And we want to point out, we think that, over 12 time, a lot of this has been kind of bunched 13 together. 14 It's very important to keep the 15 Common Core Standards separate from testing, which 16 should be kept separate from the curriculum modules. 17 I believe, lately, I've heard testimony and 18 heard people speak, and all of that is kind of 19 lumped into one ball of wax, and they're all very 20 separate pieces. 21 With regard to APPR a couple of comments: 22 Our membership has deeper doubts about APPR 23 than they do about Common Core. 24 We did another survey last spring. We 25 received more negative responses than positive 1 responses, and, again, the emphasis was on time, and 2 citing a rush to implementation, as well as the 3 intricacies of APPR and the excessive time demands 4 that it placed on the time of educators throughout 5 the year. 6 On the other hand, related to APPR, it's been 7 reported that there have been more meaningful 8 discussions between professionals, about teaching 9 and learning, and that APPR has moved us closer to a 10 common instructional language. 11 Those being positive. 12 It's positive, in that, a lot of this comes 13 into play with the 60 percent local score in the 14 APPR evaluation. 15 Finally, before I just briefly cover our 16 recommendations, I would like to note that there is 17 skepticism in the field about the validity and 18 reliability of the growth measures, and about some 19 of the models that have been used to satisfy the 20 locally assessed student-performance measures. 21 SENATOR TKACZYK: I'm sorry, could you repeat 22 that? 23 I didn't quite hear what you said. 24 ROBERT REIDY: Sorry. 25 There is skepticism in the field about the 1 validity and reliability of the state growth 2 measure, and about some of the models that have been 3 used to satisfy locally assessed student-performance 4 measures. 5 I believe we heard the deputy commissioner 6 testify this morning that some of that, a timeline 7 came up very quickly. 8 And I think that may have contributed to some 9 of those concerns. 10 Very quickly, I would like to highlight our 11 recommendations which we feel are very doable. 12 The basic principle is a simple one: We ask 13 the State Education Department to pause, engage, 14 reflect, and adjust. 15 Specifically, we recommend that the 16 department defer any further new requirements or 17 initiatives for two years, to give schools the 18 chance to effectively implement the Common Core and 19 APPR, and get it right. 20 If we get this wrong, it's not going to 21 benefit anybody. 22 We specifically request deferring adoption of 23 the value-add model in APPR, the PARCC assessments, 24 and other computer-based testing which may come down 25 the pike. 1 And, we agree with the Regents proposal at 2 the last meeting about Regents-examination passing 3 scores, because, quite frankly, given where we are 4 right now, it's really the best option before us at 5 the present time. 6 In addition, we believe that the 7 Education Department needs to engage in meaningful 8 dialogue with all stakeholders in the field, to talk 9 about the status of the Reform Agenda and the steps 10 ahead: what's worked? what hasn't worked? where 11 should we be going? 12 It's very important to note that, once these 13 consultations have taken place, we implore the 14 department to develop a road map; a plan of 15 implementation activities. 16 And I want to note that superintendents have 17 long requested this road map. 18 Seeing the big picture will help everybody in 19 the field, and seeing the big picture may allay some 20 of the fear that is now out there that is being 21 experienced by many educators. 22 I want to point out that the department is 23 pursuing some potentially helpful actions. 24 We welcomed the Commissioner's October 24th 25 letter to educators, where he outlined some of those 1 actions, but we think that more is needed. 2 We would recommend the disclosure of all test 3 questions. 4 We would recommend shortened state 5 assessments in the early grades. 6 And, we would recommend helping districts 7 reduce student testing for APPR purposes. 8 With regard to legislative action, you'll be 9 hearing testimony shortly, we strongly support the 10 Education Conference Board's 5-point plan to put the 11 Common Core on track. 12 We are part of the Educational Conference 13 Board, and all seven of those -- of the 14 organizations involved worked very hard on this 15 document, and we think it is a very important one. 16 Final recommendation I would like to 17 highlight, Senators, is that we would like to call 18 on the Governor and the Legislature to provide 19 adequate funding for State Department of Education 20 assessment operations. 21 We know that that may sound a little peculiar 22 coming from us, but, we know that, other states, 23 they provide 20 or more versions of each 24 standardized test. 25 In New York we provide four. 1 When you provide 20 versions, you can do -- 2 you can embed test questions right in the test. You 3 don't have to do extra testing. 4 When you only provide four iterations of the 5 tests, you have to do stand-alone testing to develop 6 future tests. 7 So we think that funding would be very 8 important. 9 We know that that would reduce the number of 10 tests that children are exposed to. 11 In conclusion, we believe that virtually all 12 people in this business of education are there to 13 help kids, and to help kids be all they can be. 14 We know that our superintendents are there 15 because they wanted to have a larger impact on more 16 children in a very positive way, and assist their 17 colleagues and teachers and other administrators in 18 districts to have all kids reach high goals. 19 We also know that students -- that 20 superintendents play a pivotal role in translating 21 policies and implementing legislation, and making 22 this all work. 23 That's what superintendents do in addition to 24 advocating for children. 25 So I want to thank you for listening. 1 We are grateful for this opportunity to 2 present superintendents' perspectives. 3 And, I also want you to know that we are 4 willing to assist in any way possible to implement 5 any or all of these recommendations. 6 Thank you very much. 7 SENATOR TKACZYK: I have a question. 8 You mentioned that the Governor and 9 Legislature needs to provide adequate funding for 10 State Education Department assessment operations. 11 Do you have a proposal on how much that is 12 that we need to add? 13 ROBERT REIDY: I do not. 14 ROBERT LOWERY: We don't at this time. 15 You know, there have been proposals in the 16 past to cut funding, to charge districts for exams. 17 You know, education is a constitutional 18 responsibility for the state, and assessment is a 19 state function; so the state should be funding that. 20 And, you know, we note in the testimony that 21 New York State is at the bottom of the states in 22 per-people spending on assessments. 23 That's because of so much of the scoring 24 responsibility is put on locals, where, in other 25 states, it's done by the state or shipped out to a 1 vendor. 2 So, if we want a better assessment system, 3 it's going to cost something. 4 SENATOR TKACZYK: Do you have a -- have you 5 done a survey of schools on how much the school 6 districts are spending to implement the Race to the 7 Top? 8 ROBERT REIDY: We have not done that survey. 9 We know that some districts in the 10 Lower Hudson region have collected data on that. 11 And, some of our colleagues have referred to 12 this as one of the most major unfunded mandates that 13 has come by in recent years. 14 SENATOR TKACZYK: Yeah, I think helping us 15 understand how much we're -- you know, what -- what 16 we're doing to the school districts, and that we're 17 putting more pressure on them to do these 18 assessments, and we're not giving them the 19 resources. 20 I've heard from school districts that they've 21 got to now get color printers and -- because the 22 tests -- the kids can't read the tests unless 23 they're in color for some of the questions, in math 24 especially. 25 That we're burdening them with more mandates 1 that may not make sense. 2 And, we have to provide the resources to 3 fulfill those mandates. 4 The other statement you have in your 5 testimony, is that we should ensure adequate state 6 and federal funding to give all classroom teachers 7 the tools they need. 8 Do have any recommendations on how much, with 9 regard to that statement? 10 ROBERT LOWERY: I'm sorry, I didn't hear 11 that. 12 What, specifically? 13 SENATOR TKACZYK: In your testimony, you 14 have, "Ensure adequate state and federal funding to 15 give all classroom teachers the tools, instructional 16 materials, and technology they need to help all 17 students meet the standards, including extra help 18 for students most at risk of falling short." 19 I guess what my question is: We know that we 20 haven't given the schools the time and the resources 21 they need to implement the Common Core. 22 Do you have a sense of, you know, how far 23 apart we are from where we are, and what you need, 24 from school districts, to adequately implement the 25 Common Core? 1 ROBERT LOWERY: Yeah, the short answer would 2 be no. 3 And I think, over and over again, when we 4 surveyed superintendents in the past, the leading 5 concern, we've asked, you know, "If you got more 6 money than what you need to pay for current mandates 7 and maintaining existing operations," every year, 8 the top item is extra help for kids at risk of not 9 meeting standards. 10 And that was before this summer's test 11 results. 12 Different parts of state have different 13 concerns. 14 Really struck by the concern in the 15 North Country about adequate -- adequacy about 16 textbooks and other instructional materials aligned 17 with the Common Core. 18 We don't have a dollar figure. 19 Technology per assessment, now, that is part 20 of getting to a much better assessment system, is 21 being able to do computer-based testing. 22 It's not a yes-or-no question. 23 It should be a when-and-how? 24 What does it cost? 25 What do we have to do to get there? 1 What's a reasonable phase-in schedule? 2 And we started to talk with experts out in 3 the field about, since the State Education 4 Department is not articulating the fact, how would 5 we go about putting together a plan, a reasonable 6 plan, to get to computer-based assessment system? 7 ROBERT REIDY: Your question is very 8 important, though, because many districts that 9 I speak with, or we speak with, are living for 10 tomorrow. 11 They're trying to just get by the next day, 12 and the next year, whether it be managing their fund 13 balances, or trying not to lay off more people, or 14 trying not to cut their staffs even further, raise 15 class sizes. 16 This is a battle they fight every day, and, 17 very tough for them to get in some long-term 18 planning when you're worried about where your next 19 meal is coming from. 20 SENATOR TKACZYK: Yes, do you think the 21 Education Department could do a better job of 22 assessing what school districts need with regard to 23 resources to meeting the Common Core, and helping us 24 to understand that disconnect? 25 ROBERT REIDY: I think, Senator, that's one 1 of the reasons that we proposed, immediately, a 2 pause and a dialogue, and bringing stakeholders 3 together to ask those specific questions, and, then, 4 respond in a positive way to those questions. 5 The only way we're going to specifically find 6 out what districts need, is to convene stakeholders, 7 and ask those questions directly, and then respond 8 to that. 9 SENATOR TKACZYK: Thank you. 10 ROBERT LOWERY: I think there are some 11 efforts underway, also, with the State Education 12 Department. 13 Again, perhaps it's easier to deal with some 14 of the discreet items to begin with. 15 And as I said, computer-based assessment 16 would be an obvious one. 17 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Senator Seward. 18 SENATOR SEWARD: Yes, I would take your 19 thought about pausing and having -- taking the time 20 for dialogue as an endorsement of my "take a deep 21 breath." 22 ROBERT REIDY: Yes, I was going to pass on 23 our testimony when I heard you address that. 24 Thank you. 25 SENATOR SEWARD: Just a couple of quick 1 questions: 2 Your -- earlier in your testimony, you 3 mentioned what I would consider to be, I guess, your 4 thoughts in terms of a proper rollout of a 5 Reform Agenda, including Common Core. 6 In other words, starting out with curriculum 7 development, and the second item, as I recall, would 8 that be staff development, and then implementation? 9 ROBERT REIDY: Yeah, and support and 10 development of the staff, yes. 11 And the leaders, and the administrators. 12 SENATOR SEWARD: Right. 13 And then -- and then, after those first 14 two steps, and then you get into the evaluation 15 phase? 16 ROBERT REIDY: Yeah, once the implementation, 17 Senator, took place, I think is always good to kind 18 of monitor and adjust in that first year or so. 19 And then, once you have it in place, people 20 understand it, people have the correct support, the 21 correct curriculum, understand the standards, then 22 you raise the stakes in terms of the evaluation. 23 SENATOR SEWARD: That's -- to my mind, it 24 makes perfect sense. 25 And you mentioned, in terms of the holding 1 off that evaluation, the testing portion, and both 2 on -- in terms of the Common Core, as well as APPR, 3 is that possible? 4 I mean, in terms of with the federal -- both 5 from the federal requirements and, you know, local 6 APPR agreements that are in place with school 7 districts and teachers? 8 ROBERT REIDY: Well, with regard to local 9 agreements-- 10 SENATOR SEWARD: I guess my question is: 11 What obstacles -- 12 ROBERT REIDY: -- well, every change in local 13 agreement would have to be locally negotiated, 14 that's for certain. 15 In terms of federal, I guess I would ask -- 16 that we would ask New York State Department of 17 Education to act on those things they can control, 18 and then assist us in moving forward with the 19 federal government to try to get some changes made, 20 if that's possible. 21 I'm not quite sure about the federal aspects 22 of it. 23 ROBERT LOWERY: The items on page 8 of our 24 testimony, those are within the power of the 25 State Education Department to address. 1 With the -- Arnie Duncan, U.S. Secretary of 2 Education, has indicated a willingness to allow the 3 states to defer attaching consequences to 4 Common Core-based assessments. 5 That would require a waiver from the federal 6 government to do that. 7 But we have state laws that prescribe some of 8 these matters, like the inclusion of performance on 9 the state tests and APPR results. 10 ROBERT REIDY: I also want to state that we 11 need to keep our eye on the bull's eye here. 12 I mean, the goal, we agree with the goal, the 13 long-term goal: We want all kids learning at high 14 levels, and we want to support the professionals 15 that do that. 16 So in no way are we stating that that goal 17 should be put aside. 18 What we're saying, we can probably reach it 19 better and more effectively, more efficiently, if we 20 take time and the field is consulted on it. 21 SENATOR SEWARD: Thank you. 22 ROBERT REIDY: You're welcome. 23 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Gentlemen, thank you very 24 much. 25 SENATOR SEWARD: Thank you, Senator, very 1 much. 2 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Next we have 3 Margarita Garcia-Notario and Debbie Clark. 4 At this point I can say good afternoon. 5 MARGARITA GARCIA-NOTARIO: Good afternoon, 6 yes. 7 Thank you very much for holding these 8 hearings. 9 I've the honor to represent a good group of 10 parents from the North Country. 11 One of the -- 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: You can either come a 13 little closer or pull it closer? 14 MARGARITA GARCIA-NOTARIO: Like this? 15 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yes, please. 16 And I don't want to assume -- I mentioned two 17 names, what is your name, please? 18 MARGARITA GARCIA-NOTARIO: My name is 19 Margarita Garcia-Notario. 20 Obviously, I'm not American. 21 I am naturalized American. I'm from Spain. 22 I've the honor to live in the North Country 23 and represent the parents of our districts. 24 We feel battered by the new regulations, sir. 25 We had a start last spring, when many of our 1 kids got sick because there were too many exams. 2 We were not accustomed to that. 3 And, they didn't want to go to school, and we 4 have one of the best school systems one can ask for. 5 And I would invite all of you to come and see 6 our district. 7 It's a place -- it's a place of beauty, it is 8 a place where people are good people, and they like 9 our children, they care for them. 10 And, suddenly, the morale in the schools was 11 very low. 12 I didn't really think about the education 13 reform at that moment. I just happened to be 14 serving as a parent representative, and then 15 I started receiving complaints. 16 Since then, I have learned so much about the 17 education in this country, and about the education 18 reform. 19 And, how are we going to understand the 20 parents, that, if your constitution says that 21 education belongs to the local governments, that the 22 federal government has taken over? 23 We feel that we are repeating the story of 24 Cinderella. 25 Somebody; a fairy has come and has given us a 1 gift. 2 And everybody has gotten so excited, we have 3 said, Oh, yes, we want to go for one night to a 4 ball. 5 The problem is that it only lasts one night. 6 The problem is that the federal government 7 has given us very little money, and, the demands 8 that have been imposed to us, because of that little 9 money, are so huge. 10 See, that it is, like, we were invited to the 11 ball, and that ball required a particular dress, and 12 we have received a good amount of money, let's say, 13 $5,000. 14 Okay, the minimum amount, I can't get a dress 15 suited for that ball. It's $70,000. 16 It is not a gift. 17 We were robbed. 18 Education is a human right. 19 My parents, I want to bring this perspective. 20 Most of my life I've in Spain, and I had a 21 very good education. 22 I probably am overeducated. 23 My parents paid for private education because 24 they thought that paying for good service made a lot 25 of sense. 1 They wanted to give their kids the best they 2 could, and they understood that that was expensive. 3 I don't see any family for profit. 4 I don't think education should be for profit. 5 However, my curriculum was incredibly 6 demanding. 7 Incredibly demanding; I've spent so many 8 hours studying. 9 I really didn't have a childhood because, 10 after school, I had to go to these private lessons 11 where I learned more English, and where I danced, 12 and where I played an instrument, and where my 13 father's secretary showed us, taught us, how to 14 type; because my father thought these children are 15 going to need English, how to type, and how to play 16 an instrument, because, in the end, the whole person 17 is what's going to count. 18 My children today get all of that within, 19 I don't remember if it's six hours of school, they 20 get all of that. 21 And then they get out and they have time to 22 play, and they can play sports. 23 My dissertation had a lot to with researching 24 the history of your country, and I learned that 25 Americans are self-critics. You look at yourselves, 1 and you prove that the things are not working. 2 But you know what? Maybe in this case, we're 3 going to throw the baby with the bath water, because 4 you have such good things. 5 The world is looking at America in so many 6 ways, because it is a system that allows creativity. 7 You are at the top of the world in so many 8 ways, and we know that. 9 We want to come here, we want to study, we 10 want to learn from you. 11 It's not that you all do perfect; right? 12 I want recess time for my children. 13 I always had plenty of recess time. I had 14 time to talk to my friends. And, we had time to 15 eat. 16 Our children only have 20 minutes to eat. 17 That's not eating; that's swallowing. 18 That's all they can do. 19 And, we have an obesity crisis. 20 Maybe we could chew our food? 21 But I don't know how many can chew the food 22 with that amount. 23 There are things that we need to correct. 24 But when we put our children in the hands of 25 our educators, we want for our children to receive 1 great academic instruction, but we want for our 2 children to be loved, to be cared for, and to be 3 represented for their own skills. To have people 4 who say, I know what you are capable of, and I'm 5 going to help you get there. 6 We're dancing around this education reform as 7 if nobody is going to die ever. 8 We have all of these programs, all of these 9 modules, and nobody is going to give me back my 10 second-grade year, my third-grade year. 11 My children deserve to have that part of 12 their lives. 13 When they don't want to come to school, what 14 do we do? 15 Could you imagine if most of our kids started 16 out not wanting to go to school? 17 That would be a revolution. 18 Maybe that would be good. 19 Maybe they would start doing what they like, 20 and the next generation would be a generation of 21 people who would be happy? Who have developed 22 things? 23 I don't know. 24 But, I think that we need education, we need 25 for them to join our schools. 1 So I'm not advocating for children who don't 2 go to school, I want for them to go to school, but 3 this fallacy that we are preparing them for college 4 and career, the person who is behind this movement, 5 behind inBloom, behind students first, behind all of 6 this situation, and he dropped all out of college, 7 and for a while, was bashing education, because he 8 was so successful, and he didn't have to go through 9 what people had to go through. 10 Many people in America have not gone through 11 college and have been incredibly successful. 12 I guess other [unintelligible], the trial of 13 Nuremberg, and your main lawyer, Mr. Jackson, he 14 never went to college. 15 And that's probably one of the most important 16 events that have happened in the twentieth century. 17 So, the future that we have for our children 18 is not easy. 19 We're scared. 20 See, we don't have a lot of jobs, and those 21 jobs are not well-paid. 22 We have a huge economical crisis that has not 23 been caused by the middle-class, but by the top 24 class. 25 Maybe we need to apply the reform to them. 1 See, because our children have nothing to do 2 with that, and, suddenly, they are put into a series 3 of expectations that overload them, see, and the 4 world is not pretty. 5 And these fashion, these new "pied pipers" 6 who are stealing our kids, the technology people, 7 they want to fill our schools with technology. 8 We don't want any more technology. 9 We, the parents, don't want for our children 10 to be in front of the screens. 11 They need to develop their frontal lobes, and 12 psychological research proves that this creates the 13 worst thing that we can have for that development to 14 happen. 15 So, no, we don't want more technology; we 16 want less technology. 17 The people who work in the Silicon Valley in 18 California, they take the children to schools that 19 have no technology. 20 Why? 21 We are paying huge amounts of money to the 22 people who are putting together the exams that our 23 children need to pass, and our children are being 24 used as guinea pigs through the field exams. 25 We're not going to do anymore field exams. 1 We, the parents, don't want for our children 2 to have to provide that information for the 3 companies who use it to put together the textbooks 4 that they didn't give them to us for free. 5 We need to pay for them. 6 And our schools don't have that money. 7 Now, I want to tell you that my district is 8 also one of those overachievers, according to the 9 Buffalo First Business Ratings. Plattsburgh is one 10 of those overachieving schools. 11 Overachieving schools are those who have 12 great graduation rates within the poorest 13 conditions. 14 My district has 46 percent poverty. 15 That means, that all the means that the 16 schools are offering, are being offered to kids who 17 sometimes don't have breakfast, and they still get 18 amazing results. 19 Plattsburgh's third-graders get horrible 20 results with the state exams, and we're so happy 21 about that. 22 And you know why we are so happy? 23 Because that means that the teachers are 24 doing their job. That they are keeping our children 25 where they are supposed to be: enjoying and doing 1 creative things; not preparing them for tests. 2 Then our high school has excellent results. 3 And we think that makes sense, when you 4 develop critical-thinkers, because Plattsburgh has a 5 very powerful reading program; so powerful, that you 6 don't stop reading to your children through the 7 elementary school years and through middle school. 8 But we also have a state-of-the-art music and 9 art program. 10 If we look at this from a psychological 11 perspective, our children's brains are being 12 balanced. 13 We have a right hemisphere and a left 14 hemisphere, that they're trying to work together in 15 the development. 16 We can't lose that. 17 And we're scared, because the demands are 18 putting us in a very difficult situation. 19 Our district, with that much poverty, has had 20 amazing leaders who have created beautiful schools, 21 and have been able to keep the music in our 22 programs, which is almost a miracle today. 23 I'm so thankful that you are allowing us to 24 tell you what's going on. 25 We are suffering; we're scared. 1 We don't want for our children to become 2 adults before they need to. 3 They need to be children, they need to play. 4 We don't want to tell them that they are 5 worth what their last test was worth, because, do 6 you have a bad day? 7 Our children have bad days, too. 8 And if that happens to be the day of the 9 test, that's the day of the test. 10 These are our children. 11 This is our human right. 12 And America has shined for years. 13 What are we doing now? 14 Creating robots? 15 That's wrong. 16 That's wrong. 17 And there is a leadership needed to change 18 those things. 19 Who is controlling this thing? 20 Because these are not high standards. 21 No; this is money that is being sent in the 22 wrong direction. 23 I really hope that you will do what you seem 24 to be doing. 25 I'm very impressed with the questions that 1 you're asking, and I feel that you have our 2 interests. 3 And, I don't know, do you have any questions 4 for me? 5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: You are a parent; correct? 6 MARGARITA GARCIA-NOTARIO: Yes, I am. 7 SENATOR FLANAGAN: How many children do you 8 have? 9 MARGARITA GARCIA-NOTARIO: Two. 10 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And they're in what 11 grades? 12 MARGARITA GARCIA-NOTARIO: I have one in 13 eighth grade, and another one in tenth grade. 14 SENATOR FLANAGAN: All right. 15 Thank you very much. 16 MARGARITA GARCIA-NOTARIO: Yeah, you're 17 welcome. 18 Thank you. 19 SENATOR TKACZYK: Thank you. 20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay, next we have 21 Heather Briccetti from the Business Council. 22 HEATHER BRICCETTI: Sorry. 23 Good afternoon. 24 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Good afternoon. 25 HEATHER BRICCETTI: I'm Heather Briccetti. 1 I'm the president and CEO of the Business Council of 2 New York State. 3 We are a business association representing 4 more than 2400 employers in the state with over a 5 million employees in New York State. 6 I am also a member of America's Edge, which 7 is a national business-leader organization with more 8 than 150 business-leader members in New York State, 9 focused on strengthening businesses and the economy 10 through investing in children and youth. 11 This year, at our annual meeting, the 12 Business Council -- 13 And by the way, I did submit written 14 testimony. I'm not going read it. 15 I do have to look at my notes for numbers, 16 because I'm a lawyer, so it means I get all of my 17 numbers wrong. I can't be trusted with them. 18 So -- but this year at our annual meeting in 19 September, our board of directors decided to 20 formally adopt an educational workforce development 21 committee at the board level. 22 And this is -- I've mentioned this to 23 emphasize the importance that education has to our 24 members as employers. 25 Currently, only 37 percent of students are 1 graduating high school college- or career-ready. 2 And of those entering community colleges -- 3 going on to community college, 40 percent of them 4 need additional remedial education, which is 5 costing, just this state, nearly $70 million a year. 6 And my last statistic I think that I want to 7 mention is that, 79 percent of New York jobs right 8 now are middle- or-high-skills jobs. 9 So, despite the fact that we're in a climate 10 where there is relatively high unemployment, there 11 are a lot of positions that my members-employers are 12 unable to fill because they can't find the skilled 13 workforce to do so. 14 So the two points that I really want to leave 15 with you today is: 16 Number one: We, as an organization, and our 17 members, strongly believe that the implementation of 18 the Common Core Standards, and raising the bar for 19 our students, is -- it's not just important; it's 20 critical, it's urgent. 21 We went from being first in the world in 22 graduation rates just a quarter -- just 20 years 23 ago, to now sliding to 25th in the world. 24 We're falling behind, and it is very 25 difficult for companies to compete where they don't 1 have the ability to access a skilled workforce. 2 So, the first point that I want to make is, 3 we strongly believe that continued implementation of 4 the Common Core Standards and the curriculum is 5 very, very important. 6 I understand that from -- actually, from 7 attending prior hearings, and from all of the 8 feedback and publicity around the implementation, 9 that it has been challenging. 10 I, too, have three children who are 11 school-age. 12 However, we believe it's a worthy cause. 13 We believe what we should be doing is exactly 14 what you all are doing: having a conversation, 15 identifying where there are difficulties and 16 challenges, and correcting them as we move forward. 17 We do not agree that now is the time to 18 pause. 19 We think we move forward, and we address 20 challenges as we move forward. 21 I've an eleventh-grader. 22 I don't want to see a pause on the 23 implementation of the standards that he'll miss the 24 benefit of. 25 He will graduate in a, year and he won't get 1 the benefit of any of this, the new higher 2 standards. 3 So, as a parent, I think the last thing we 4 want to do is stop moving forward and improving our 5 educational system. 6 The second point I wanted to make, is that we 7 strongly support the innovative high school models 8 that are now being implemented in New York. 9 PTAC-IBM is a member company of mine. 10 The PTAC early-college high school, we feel 11 is -- has great promise. 12 If you look at some of the other examples, 13 locally, Tech Valley High School a 100 percent 14 graduation rate. 15 I think these are examples of looking at 16 innovative approaches to teaching, that has been 17 done, actually, by districts at the local level, 18 that have tremendous potential to improve our 19 outcome and our results. 20 And then, just the last point I'm going make, 21 and you can ask me questions if you want, 22 I hopefully will know the answer, is that, if we 23 could improve just our math scores, raise them up to 24 Canada, that translates to $1 trillion in new 25 economic activity in the U.S. 1 This is real, this is important, and this is 2 the future of the United States. 3 We need to focus on raising our standards, 4 implementing them in a way that makes sense, that is 5 effective, and not holding our breath; not pausing. 6 So, that's -- that's all I've to say. 7 And, if you have questions, that would -- 8 hopefully, I can answer. 9 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Actually, I do have a 10 question. 11 One of the things in your testimony, and it's 12 somewhat ironic that you have an eleventh-grader, 13 because I'm going to reference early-college 14 high school, that, I think is a program that most 15 people are still almost completely unaware of. 16 And I would agree with you that it has 17 been -- where it's been implemented, it's been 18 outstanding. 19 I remember meeting some students in my office 20 who -- a young lady from the Bronx who was going to 21 be entering Binghamton as a junior, and, you know, 22 had saved the cost of doing that. 23 While this is seemingly off topic, if we are 24 to forge ahead with opportunities like that, what 25 type of signal do we need to send to the business 1 community to get public-private buy-in? 2 And in this case, I'm talking about the 3 potential for private funds to either match or 4 complement what comes from the public? 5 HEATHER BRICCETTI: I have a two-part answer 6 for you. 7 Number one is, the business community has 8 great interest in partnering with school districts. 9 I think you'll see across the state, numerous 10 attempts, some successful, some less successful, to 11 contribute to the local public-education system. 12 I mean, you can look at Rochester. 13 Wegman's and the Hillside Family of Agencies 14 has taken a population of youth that are most at 15 risk, least likely to graduate, and taken them in a 16 district that is graduating less than 40 percent of 17 its students, they have a 95 percent graduation rate 18 with the kids who have gone through this program. 19 So, there are lots of examples; 20 unfortunately, they're sort of scattered, they're 21 ad hoc. Every district operates differently. Their 22 willingness to partner with businesses is different 23 in every district. 24 So, that's part one of my answer. 25 The other part of my answer would be, that 1 just the infusion of additional funds is not going 2 to produce a great improvement in outcomes. 3 We already, as a state, spend a third more 4 than the next highest-spending state per pupil. 5 Clearly, that, in and of itself, is not the 6 solution. 7 How we use our resources, how we apply them 8 to the students, and how we evaluate the 9 effectiveness of that, are all important aspects 10 that need to be considered when we talk about 11 spending. 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. 13 HEATHER BRICCETTI: Thank you. 14 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you very much. 15 All right, next we have John... 16 JOHN YAGIELSKI: And he pauses because the 17 name is Yagielski. 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I was going to say 19 Yagielski. 20 You helped me out, I appreciate it. 21 ...from the Educational Conference Board. 22 JOHN YAGIELSKI: I guess it's good afternoon. 23 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Good afternoon. 24 JOHN YAGIELSKI: Appreciate the opportunity 25 that you have provided, Senator, to hold these 1 hearings, and for the other Senators to attend. 2 I should start off by saying, I'm 3 John Yagielski, a retired educator; a retired 4 educator who, just a couple of years ago, had the 5 privilege to work with Katie Ferguson, and had the 6 honor to actually select her as the Schenectady 7 Teacher of the Year. 8 Make no mistake about it, you were listening 9 to an incredibly effective teacher. 10 At any rate, I want to address the fact that 11 I'm here because I'm the chair of the 12 Educational Conference Board. 13 Educational Conference Board is made up of 14 seven statewide educational organizations 15 representing school boards, parents, 16 superintendents, business officials, and principals 17 along the way, and other educators. 18 And, frankly, a number of representatives 19 from these various organizations are here, and 20 I would welcome them to come down and sit when you 21 have any questions, when we're finished, with some 22 general comments. 23 The Educational Conference Board comes 24 together on a regular basis and discusses topics of 25 common interest, and when necessary, the group 1 advocates; prepares positions for advocating 2 collectively. 3 At every one of the meetings this past year, 4 the topic of how the three major elements of the 5 Regents Reform Agenda were being implemented was 6 discussed and debated. 7 We could not get through a single meeting 8 without spending considerable time on that topic. 9 After a great deal of consideration, and 10 based on commonly held concerns over the course of 11 implementation, these organizations unanimously, 12 "unanimously," joined together to outline our 13 submitted testimony, "Common Grounds on Common Core: 14 Let's get it right, move the Common Core back on 15 track." 16 And I just want to cover a little bit about 17 that submitted testimony. 18 You began today's session with what I think 19 is the really critical issue; and that is, we ought 20 to stay focused on students and student learning. 21 That's really at the heart of what the 22 Regents Reform is all about. 23 Frankly, over the past few years, we really 24 have had too much of our attention focused on 25 compliance for the new teacher and principal 1 evaluation system; on the related assessments 2 associated with that system; on reoccurring budget 3 problems, because every district is struggling in 4 the last few years with those things; and the 5 accelerated implementation of the assessments based 6 off of the Common Core. 7 If we really want to focus our attention on 8 students and student learning, we really have to 9 spend a lot more of our time, our energy, and 10 resources on implementing, effectively implementing, 11 the Common Core Learning Standards. 12 That will make more difference for students 13 and student learning than any of those other 14 elements. 15 These standards, as you well know, were 16 designed to ensure that all students, regardless of 17 where they live, what school they attend, are 18 learning what they need to graduate from high school 19 with the ability to not just recite knowledge, but 20 to apply knowledge to real-world challenges. 21 This past spring, we implemented assessments 22 based off of the Common Core, and given the results 23 that came out in the fall, we really have seen a 24 considerable amount of negative reaction; negative 25 reaction that has some people even questioning the 1 Common Core. 2 That's unfortunate. 3 While it's clear the issues related to 4 testing need to be addressed, I think we also must 5 help others to understand some of the really 6 important differences between standards, curriculum, 7 and the various types and purposes of assessments. 8 We're not there. 9 People are confused by so much of that, and 10 it's important to get that sorted out. 11 When we were discussing how we believe to 12 move forward, the various representatives from the 13 leaders from the various organizations, we 14 recognized that the Common Core are not perfect. 15 They are, however, in our belief, the right 16 direction for our schools, and for our students. 17 We have to be careful not to allow all the 18 other noise in the systems to kind of distract from 19 what really is gonna be important for students in 20 the long run; and that's successfully dealing with 21 that. 22 Most people may not know this, but we all 23 ought to know it, the Common Core really represents 24 the most significant increase in student 25 expectations that New York schools have ever faced. 1 Since I've around a long time, I can say that 2 with authority. 3 I started in education in the '60s, 4 late-'60s, when we in New York were viewed by 5 everybody across the nation as education leaders. 6 Our Regents exams and the standards we had in 7 place, and how we approached it, were admired from 8 state after state after state. 9 This is such an increase, that we need to 10 recognize it's going take considerable time and 11 energy to make the changes for teachers, for 12 parents, and for students. 13 Can't happen quickly. 14 Simply can't happen quickly. 15 Working together with our ECB members, 16 organization members, we developed a 5-point plan 17 for actions that we believe need to be taken to make 18 sure that the Common Core becomes reality in every 19 classroom across the state. 20 We're at this session because we, again, need 21 the help of state leaders to make that happen. 22 What do we need? 23 We need collaboration to build wider 24 understanding of what the Common Core aims to 25 achieve for our students. 1 The better job we can have parents understand 2 why it's in their child's interest that we're 3 implementing these standards, the better off we'll 4 be. 5 Secondly, we really need adequate resources 6 for professional development, for curriculum 7 development, for instructional materials and 8 technology, and, certainly, for extra help for 9 students that are at risk of not meeting these new 10 standards. 11 We do need to address the most pressing 12 concerns of parents and educators regarding testing, 13 including: 14 The number of tests students are taking, and 15 required to take, especially in the early grades, as 16 you heard Katie say; 17 And, how much time the students spend taking 18 the tests, both the number of days in doing it, and 19 the length of time; 20 And, the need for timely assessment feedback, 21 again, as Katie mentioned earlier; 22 And, more transparency in standardized 23 testing, in order to identify areas where students 24 really need extra help; 25 And, the lack of technology available to our 1 schools. 2 If we're gonna move in the directions that we 3 have to, we're gonna need to have more technology. 4 Finally, and in many ways, most importantly, 5 we really need to have continuing engagement between 6 local and state leaders, including the 7 Education Department, in achieving a better schedule 8 of implementation and a process for moving forward. 9 We are not where we need to be, and it won't 10 get fixed by snapping our fingers. 11 We're gonna have to work together to make 12 that happen. 13 And that means, we have to be working side by 14 side with state leaders including SED, to have that 15 happen. 16 The voices of those who are charged with 17 implementing all of this have to be heard, and have 18 to be accounted for, in revising and resetting our 19 plans for moving forward. 20 And I thank you for the time, and I would be 21 happy to try to answer any questions. 22 Or -- or beg some of my colleagues to come 23 down and help. 24 SENATOR FLANAGAN: They just all left, John. 25 Thank you so much. 1 JOHN YAGIELSKI: Oh, I've been there before. 2 [Laughter.] 3 SENATOR TKACZYK: I've a couple of quick 4 questions. 5 JOHN YAGIELSKI: Sure. 6 SENATOR TKACZYK: Have you presented this 7 5-point plan to the Educational Department or the 8 Governor's Office, and gone over it with them? 9 And if so, what's their response? 10 JOHN YAGIELSKI: We have made that plan 11 available to -- we really released this plan way 12 back, I think it was September 30th. 13 I've had -- I personally have only had a 14 couple of comments back and forth. 15 We had a little chat with Ken Slentz earlier, 16 about his reaction to the plan, and he was positive 17 about it. 18 But, nobody has invited us down, to sit down 19 and talk about doing that, yet. 20 "Yet." 21 SENATOR TKACZYK: I think that's part of our 22 problem. 23 The number of -- one of -- number four, you 24 have "Assess concerns with student testing." 25 Your suggestion is, "Address the most 1 pressing concerns, such as the number of tests for 2 students in early grades." 3 The Teacher of the Year thought that we 4 should not have those assessment tests in the early 5 grades. 6 I mean, what are you recommending? 7 Just to look at it, or to -- 8 JOHN YAGIELSKI: No, no, no. She actually 9 said she doesn't like those high-stake tests there. 10 She was eloquent, in my opinion, in talking 11 about the need she has, as a classroom teacher, for 12 assessing where youngsters are, and what she needs 13 to do to meet them. 14 We are way out of balance with the system we 15 have in place, between, accountability, and helping 16 instruction and helping students. 17 It's kind of like this fell like that 18 [indicating]. 19 We've got to bring balance back. 20 SENATOR TKACZYK: How do we do that? 21 JOHN YAGIELSKI: Well, by reexamining all of 22 the assessments we have. 23 Getting people together, the right mix of 24 people together, with SED, to talk about those 25 things, and begin to drop down the number that are 1 there for pure accountability purposes, and increase 2 the amount that's available that can be really 3 effectively used by classroom teachers to drive 4 instruction. 5 In the past, we've had balance like that. 6 I can take you back years and years ago, 7 where we were testing only at certain grade levels, 8 and we were able to maintain some degree of 9 accountability even at the state level for that. 10 Now, I recognize that federal requirements 11 have all of these tests in the middle of it. 12 Well, isn't it about time, if -- I would say, 13 if the federal government is really as sincere as 14 they say they are about Race to the Top and 15 Common Core Standards, then they ought to be 16 listening to suggestions for modifications, waivers, 17 or whatever you want to call it, to bring about 18 change that really drives instruction and makes a 19 difference for students and teachers. 20 SENATOR TKACZYK: SED said that they're going 21 to be requesting waivers, and have requested some 22 waivers. 23 Have you reviewed them? 24 And do you think there's more they should be 25 requesting waivers of? 1 Or -- 2 JOHN YAGIELSKI: I just kind of inferred that 3 I think we ought to be doing more. 4 SENATOR TKACZYK: Okay. 5 Thank you. 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: John, first of all, thank 7 you for being here. 8 Second of all, this is a very helpful 9 document, because you represent a wide variety of 10 groups, to say the least. 11 And, I've actually spoken about this group on 12 a number of occasions, both publicly and privately, 13 because, part of what's getting lost is, the 14 consensus -- general consensus, about the value of 15 Common Core. 16 But, specifically, have you, in looking at 17 APPR -- and this is a mine field in so many 18 different ways -- have you debated internally, or, 19 have you -- are you looking at perhaps suggesting 20 some modifications to APPR, as it relates to these 21 other issues, to, in essence, try to keep the value 22 of both, but not have them be so interrelated that 23 it's detrimental? 24 JOHN YAGIELSKI: In my opinion, all of these 25 things go together, and, they have to be made to 1 work together. 2 It will require -- in my opinion, it will 3 require changes in APPR, to be effective in 4 achieving what we want for students. 5 Now, I'm not against, nor do I've any of 6 those organizations, that we come together, I don't 7 any of them to say, Get rid of APPR. 8 They talk about the problems inherent in 9 APPR. 10 And, look at how you were talking about that 11 a little earlier, about, Geez, how do we -- how do 12 we assess and evaluate teachers at the elementary 13 level if we're not doing some testing for some kids? 14 Now, how do you do that? 15 And that led to all these extra tests. 16 I mean, it's painful to think about a 17 kindergarten student, not just a second-grader, but 18 a kindergarten student facing five pre-tests in 19 September. 20 That's -- that's embedded in there. 21 Are there ways around that? 22 Yes, and let's get working on them. Let's 23 get figuring out the changes that can even be made 24 in APPR; not just talk about them and say, Yeah, 25 they'll be done. 1 But, I'm an optimist. 2 If you get people in a room, the right kind 3 of people, and if you do it with respect, and honor 4 one another's perspective, there are ways of dealing 5 with that. 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Yeah, I certainly don't 7 want to speak for my colleague, but one of the 8 things that I've grappled with, and I've asked this 9 question on a number of occasions, is directly 10 related to testing. 11 How many? 12 You know, you can look and see ELA 3-8, 13 science, the five Regents, and things like that, 14 but, it is challenging for us, to a degree, to 15 figure out what comes locally. 16 What comes locally by the district? 17 What comes locally by the teacher in the 18 classroom, making their own independent 19 determinations as to what a test may be? 20 And then, of course, what are we mandated to 21 do by the federal government? 22 You heard me speak before. 23 I do think behave to have much stronger 24 advocacy with our federal colleagues to make some 25 changes at that level. 1 But, do you have anything from your 2 organization that helps quantify some of these 3 tests, if not all of them? 4 And I've asked this question time and time 5 again. 6 And some of the educators, in particular, get 7 frustrated, because they say, Well, you know, 8 there's too much testing. 9 I say, Tell us what the tests are. What are 10 the things that we control? 11 Because, if we were to come in -- I was 12 listening very closely to Mrs. Ferguson -- if we 13 just say, no testing whatsoever, does that present a 14 dilemma for a teacher like her, who may actually be 15 testing children in potential violation of a law 16 that we may pass? 17 JOHN YAGIELSKI: The teachers have already 18 available to them certain tools that they can use 19 for that kind of business. 20 We need more of those tools available for 21 teachers to deal with that. 22 And I don't think we ought to write a rule 23 that says there will be no more testing at the 24 primary grades. 25 When people say that, I interpret that to 1 mean they're talking about simply for accountability 2 purposes. 3 You have to have some way of assessing where 4 youngsters are to be able to inform instruction. 5 That's not only important to do that, it's 6 also important to say, Well, gee, how well did the 7 kids, when all was said and done, how well did they 8 perform? 9 You have to have some of that, too, but you 10 don't have to have this pre/post that got built into 11 all of these APPR plans the way they are. 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Just one last thing: 13 If your group could forward some more 14 detailed points on professional development? 15 Because you can make an argument saying, 16 We'll give $25 million to the department for them to 17 do it. 18 Some might say, Well, that's -- we don't want 19 to give the money to the department. Why can't we 20 give money to the districts? Why can't we do it 21 through the BOCES throughout the state? 22 So if you have something that you are 23 discussing or looking at, I think that would be very 24 helpful. 25 JOHN YAGIELSKI: If you don't mind, I want to 1 make this point: 2 When I said it, I said "professional 3 development" and "curriculum development." 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Right. 5 JOHN YAGIELSKI: When I think about the 6 professional development, not every one of our 7 teachers across the state has had adequate 8 opportunities, in my opinion, based off of people 9 that I've talked to, to really grapple with and 10 understand the Common Core Learning Standards 11 themselves. 12 So, if you're going in that direction, we've 13 got to be sure that every teacher has that level of 14 understanding. 15 Secondly, I say "curriculum development," 16 because -- 17 And you can see the quagmire we're already 18 slipping in at the state level about this. 19 -- here's one man's personal view. This I 20 haven't discussed with all of the others. 21 The most appropriate curriculum is the 22 curriculum being developed and used by classroom 23 teachers. 24 If we really want to make a difference in 25 that, we have to provide them time to develop that. 1 They're the ones that are gonna implement it. 2 Frankly, they're implementing some curriculum 3 right now, and curriculum that they themselves own. 4 Look at what we're asking them to do. 5 Just throw that away and take something off 6 of EngageNY? 7 That won't work. 8 That really won't work. 9 They need opportunities to work with others 10 in their building, others in their district, to talk 11 about that, to develop unit plans, lesson plans. 12 That will get implemented. 13 We want commitment, not compliance. 14 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you very much. 15 JOHN YAGIELSKI: Thank you. 16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Appreciate it. 17 Next we have Tim Farley and Kathryn Brown. 18 TIM FARLEY: I love your green bracelet. 19 It matches my shoelaces. 20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I saw that. 21 TIM FARLEY: If everyone could stand up, just 22 for a second, it is good practice. 23 We've been sitting here for three hours -- 24 over three hours, and just stretch. 25 Come on, stretch it out, take a deep breath. 1 Ladies first. 2 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Kathryn, welcome. 3 I just want to make sure that your mic is 4 live. 5 KATHRYN BROWN: Am I on? 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I'm sure you will be. 7 KATHRYN BROWN: Am I on now? 8 Can you hear me now? 9 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Absolutely. 10 KATHRYN BROWN: I actually don't need a mic, 11 I'm a teacher, but I will use that for recording 12 purposes. 13 I'm hoping that, everyone else is taking a 14 break, will still listen to what's happening, 15 because we have been going for a long time. 16 But, as you introduced me, my name is 17 Kathryn Brown, and I have been an English teacher, 18 now starting my 20th year. 19 And as Tim noted, I, too, don't have green 20 laces on, because it didn't match, but I do have 21 green socks on under my boots. 22 Having said that, I want to read an opening 23 that's not the testimony I provided to you, and then 24 talk from my heart, because I want to be sure my 25 opening statement captures all the other details 1 that you've heard in many other ways today. 2 We listened as she read us "Sadako and the 3 Thousand Paper Cranes." 4 We thought it was easy, but we listened; we 5 learned, we explored, we cried at the reality of 6 Hiroshima and its human tragedy. 7 We wrote about our dreams for the future. 8 We read articles, we read books, we 9 researched, and shared with anyone who would listen. 10 We devoured the opportunity to learn. 11 We made 2,000 peace cranes. 12 We laughed together as we recreated cranes of 13 all sizes in every corner of the school, and every 14 home in our community, and every material we could 15 find, from gum wrappers, to butcher paper, taller 16 than we were. 17 We taught others how to make them. 18 We sent the cranes to others who needed their 19 hope. 20 We were proud of our accomplishment as 21 individuals, and as a class. 22 We celebrated in our own way. 23 We sold school-emblazoned mascot pedometers 24 to raise enough money to tie-die shirts with a 25 hand-drawn crane done by one of our classmates. 1 We spent a day in Vermont at the ECHO Museum, 2 sporting our shirts, celebrating the journey we had 3 experienced together for a year as a result of a 4 unit of study that was supposed to last five days. 5 We are now seniors. 6 We remember these moments; we will always 7 remember these moments. 8 We still make cranes, but, our sister class 9 will never have these moments. 10 Why? 11 Because the new implementation of the 12 Regents Reform has resulted in a loss of a broad and 13 varied curriculum. 14 We have lost the ability to use all of the 15 amazing strategies we have to teach. 16 In order to teach, that we then say, the only 17 way we can assess that you're doing it is by taking 18 a test; and, yet, we're taking a test that we can't 19 do any of the things that we're doing in the 20 classroom, on the test. 21 Because, the standardized assessment, which 22 is too long and is not a pillow, as was mentioned 23 earlier, takes multiple days, multiple hours, to 24 decide if I am career- and college-ready. 25 Why does it take three days, and each grade 1 level in grades 3 through 8, to decide if I'm 2 college- and career-ready? 3 On the Regents, we have finally cut it down 4 to three hours to decide that you are ready, after 5 three years of high school. 6 So, why, when I'm in seventh grade, do I need 7 to sit for three days of tests to decide if I'm 8 college- and career-ready? 9 Besides the inappropriate reading level of 10 those tests, what does it prove? 11 Rigor is awesome. 12 I work very hard every day to include 13 improved rigor in my classroom, even though I hate 14 that particular word, because it really reminds me 15 of rigamortis and inflexibility. 16 But, we're setting up our students for 17 failure, and we've got to meet them where they're at 18 to get them where we want them to go. 19 Just because we give them a harder test does 20 not mean that we've assessed what they've learned, 21 what they have been taught, or what they're going to 22 do when they're done with school. 23 Because our results do not inform our 24 instruction, what's the purpose of the assessment? 25 I give assessments every day, every moment of 1 my teaching career, whether or not it's an actual 2 test or a quiz, but, every day, with everything we 3 do, we have assessments. 4 How else am I going to know what each 5 individual kid is achieving and doing? 6 So if the purpose of the assessment is to 7 improve my instruction -- and I want to improve my 8 instruction, that's the goal every good teacher -- 9 I've been doing it for a long time, but I've never, 10 ever done, every kid, every year, is different. 11 But it seems to me that our current 12 assessment is about punishment: punishment for our 13 students, punishment for our schools, punishment for 14 our teachers. 15 How can my school go from being a blue-ribbon 16 school one year to 60 percent failure rate on all 17 levels for all kids and all teachers? 18 How is that possible? 19 Did one year, did I do that much better than 20 all the other years? 21 No; and neither did my students. 22 The amount of time it takes to prep to take 23 the test, the amount of time that we're taking in 24 ELA and math, especially in the lower levels, where 25 that's all we're doing in exchange for what we 1 should be doing at school, the amount of time it 2 takes to actually get trained to grade the tests, 3 and then to go grade the tests, and then to go 4 collate the tests, why does it take four months to 5 get the results back? 6 We grade the Regents exam, and that afternoon 7 we have the score. 8 Why does it take us four months to figure out 9 what happened in the test in April? 10 Because, we know, in reality, we have to play 11 with the numbers to get what we want them to say. 12 One year in New York State, the teachers 13 finally figured out the test. 14 We did a great job, all of the tests went up. 15 My students took it. 16 They changed the cut scores after they took 17 the test. 18 That's not fair. 19 And what purpose did it serve? 20 Did it improve instruction? 21 Did it make those kids better able to meet 22 the demands of the business world? 23 No. 24 And we took a test in April; our scores were 25 announced on EngageNY in August. 1 It is now November. 2 I still do not have any information, other 3 than who passed or failed, according to this 4 zero-to-4 scale. 5 Who passed and failed the test other than who 6 was mandated in my AIS? 7 So if the real goal of all this assessment is 8 to keep me accountable, and assess the learning of 9 my students and improve their standards, we're not 10 doing it correctly, because it can't improve them, 11 when 25 percent of the year has gone by and I still 12 have no information to improve my instruction. 13 I need to be a data-informed teacher; not a 14 data-driven teacher. 15 And we need your help, as Senators, to help 16 debunk the myth that our schools are failing, our 17 students are failing, and our teachers are failing, 18 because it's not true. 19 Is there room for improvement? 20 Hell, yes. 21 Why else would we be here? 22 Every day, teachers work hard to make it 23 better. 24 And those of us who teach with our hearts and 25 with great enthusiasm, want to do better every -- 1 every day, every year, but we can't do that in the 2 system that has been presented to us. 3 And, so, I would ask that whatever way that 4 the Senate can help in this process, as you've asked 5 for feedback, that we don't sacrifice curriculum 6 equality for curriculum standardization. 7 Because, in the end, it will not help the 8 business world who needs more graduates, it will not 9 help our schools, and it's not going to improve 10 teachers. 11 All it's going to do is take those of us who 12 do this with heart and soul, out of the classroom, 13 because, after a while, you can work just so hard 14 when your heart is broken. 15 Thank you for listening. 16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you. 17 Mr. Farley. 18 TIM FARLEY: Senator Flanagan, I would like 19 to thank you for being the only one left, and you're 20 still sitting here. 21 Thank you very much. 22 I am Tim Farley. 23 I am -- my wife and I are the proud parents 24 of four school-aged children: Owen [ph.], 25 Aiden [ph.], Katherine [ph.], and John Paul. 1 They are, respectively, in seventh, fifth, 2 third, and kindergarten. 3 I have much at stake in this experiment. 4 And that's exactly what it is: it's an 5 experiment. 6 I would like to, before I summarize my 7 written testimony, just hit on some of the things 8 that Mr. Slentz had stated earlier, and then left, 9 just as has happened in the other four hearings. 10 There were a lot of qualifiers used when 11 describing the implementation of Common Core, such 12 as: Flawed. Uneven. Not optimal. 13 It's far more grave than that. It's been 14 completely disastrous. 15 Another thing he had mentioned today, was it 16 would be foolish for one to think that we could do 17 it well on the first run. 18 Really? 19 You're talking about 700 school districts, 20 I don't know how many students there are, but if 21 I ran my school the way SED is being run, I would 22 have been fired a long time ago. 23 He also talked about the flexibility in 24 trying to listen, and offer grants for more 25 assessments to assess our assessments. 1 Really! 2 He's perceiving SED as receiving input from 3 an external think-tank. 4 That's what he said earlier. 5 I'd like to know who or what that external 6 think-tank is; whose money is paying for it? 7 Why isn't he asking us what we think? 8 Just as a side note: 9 There are private for-profit companies that 10 are using the EngageNY modules, which is open to the 11 public. They're using them as a consultant business 12 all across this country. 13 I'll give you one example: EdCaliber.com. 14 Also talked about being more flexible, and he 15 mentions the eighth-grade math test. 16 The eighth-grade math test that he's 17 referring to, the one that they're looking for the 18 waiver, eighth-graders who are accelerated, that's 19 who we're talking about it. 20 It's not every eighth-grader; it's just the 21 students who are accelerated. 22 Last year, they took two tests. 23 This year, if they get the waiver, they'll 24 take two. 25 There's been no reduction, because the three 1 new tests this June would have been the eighth-grade 2 Common Core, the integrated algebra, and the 3 Common Core algebra. 4 All they're doing is reducing one of the 5 extra tests. 6 Now, I'll summarize the written testimony 7 that I had sent in. 8 When you have the Chancellor of Education and 9 the Commissioner of Education referring to 10 Common Core implementation, and everything that 11 comes with it, with the words "We just need to jump 12 in the deep end. We are building a plane in 13 midair," that does not sound very good to me. 14 "Rigor" -- 15 And I agree with you. 16 By the way, your testimony was excellent. 17 "Rigor" should be eradicated when we're 18 talking about children. 19 "Rigor," if you look it up, says: harsh, 20 strict, severe, unflexible [sic]. 21 That word should never be used when we're 22 talking about our children. 23 Another point: 24 Common Core has never been field-tested, and 25 it violates three federal statutes. 1 It is not the federal government's role to be 2 doing what it's doing. 3 Bill Gates, big financial backer of all of 4 these initiatives, whether it's InBloom or 5 Common Core initiatives, he is quoted as saying, 6 "It will take ten years to see if any of this 7 actually works." 8 I'm sorry, Mr. Gates, but I have four kids 9 in this. I'm not waiting ten years to see if this 10 work. 11 That's not how we do things in education; or 12 at least how we're not -- we're certainly not 13 supposed to be doing it this way. 14 The sense of hypocrisy is another big one for 15 me. 16 If Common Core was really all this 17 wonderful -- all that wonderful, excuse me, why 18 aren't the people who are implementing it or 19 responsible for implementing it sending their kids 20 to the public schools where they're held to the 21 same? 22 If it's that good, why aren't they sending 23 them to the public schools? 24 They should. 25 If it's so wonderful, why are 22 states in 1 the process of pulling out of Common Core? 2 It's hard to find out -- that out. 3 They don't want you to know that, but that's 4 the truth. 5 22 out of the 45 states plus the District of 6 Columbia are in the process, one way or the other, 7 of pulling out of Common Core, and everyone's 8 looking to New York to see what happens. 9 State and local assessments in the APPR: 10 Testing students on concepts and skills that 11 they haven't even been exposed to -- here's another 12 qualifier -- that's not good pedagogy. 13 It's horrible pedagogy. 14 SLOs: 15 And this goes to the question you keep 16 asking, and I'll give you the truth. 17 What they did -- this is what I think is what 18 happened: 19 In the race to implement all of this, 20 everyone focused in on the 3-through-8 ELA and math, 21 because, Common Core, that's all, so far, that we've 22 adopted in New York State. 23 It's just the ELA and math. 24 So in 3 through 8, those teachers who are 25 stuck with teaching that are connected to a state 1 test. 2 Well, what do you do with all the other 3 teachers; how do we assess them? 4 Well, they're not connected to a state 5 assessment so you have your family and consumer 6 science, you have your technology teacher, you have 7 your music, your art, your PE teachers. 8 That's where all these extra assessments are 9 coming. We have to evaluate them, too. 10 It's got to be fair. 11 So, there are a boatload of tests. 12 That's why you keep getting the same answer. 13 It's different for 700 school districts 14 because of what was negotiated at the local level. 15 The tests are far too long. 16 And I just agree with everything you said. 17 Why does it have to be three days for the 18 ELA? Why three days for the math? 19 Why does it have to be for every grade, 3, 4, 20 5, 6, 7, 8; three days, each, for ELA; three for the 21 math. 22 We -- it does not need to be. 23 There's no federal mandate that says it has 24 to be three days long for each. 25 Where's that federal mandate? 1 I haven't seen it. 2 The anxiety that people keep testifying on is 3 real. 4 The children are crying. The teachers are 5 crying. 6 I personally witnessed this. 7 I've watched -- well, I actually didn't see 8 it, I heard about it, though: A student throw up 9 during the testing because of the anxiety. 10 I have seen my teachers in tears over 11 everything that's going on. 12 This isn't made up. 13 This is real. 14 They're afraid to speak out. 15 Another example of hypocrisy: 16 We keep hearing, the tests are important, the 17 tests are important. Gotta hold everyone 18 accountable, they're so important. 19 Then what happened, after they manipulated 20 the test scores to match exactly what their 21 prediction was, they said, "That the tests should 22 not be used as a measure of what kids have learned, 23 nor should the schools make personnel decisions 24 based on those results." 25 Pardon? 1 Sounds like the opposite of what we've been 2 told. 3 So which is it? 4 Are they that important and we're holding 5 everybody accountable, and they're accurate and 6 fair? Or are they unfair? 7 Which one? 8 I'd like an answer on the "opt out." 9 Again, Deputy Commissioner Slentz, 10 [unintelligible], there's no opt-out clause. 11 I'll go on the record, I'll just say it: 12 My four kids are opting out. 13 Two that were of test age last year, they 14 didn't take the test. 15 There is no governmental agency that's gonna 16 force my kids to do something that goes against my 17 wishes and what I know is wrong for my kids. 18 Other parents who decide that they want their 19 kids to take the test, that's their parental right. 20 They should be making those decisions. 21 But the government cannot be forcing parents 22 to make that decision. 23 And they need to be very clear as to what the 24 penalty is, because there's been a lot of veiled 25 threats coming out of SED. 1 Well, you might lose funding. 2 Really? 3 What funding? 4 Tell me specifically what funding. 5 Oh, if you're a Title 1 school, you have to 6 reallocate 5 to 15 percent of your Title 1 funds. 7 My school receives a little over $270,000 in 8 Title 1 money. 9 Reallocate it to, whom? 10 Those teachers already serve some of the 11 people that Title 1 fund money is supposed to be 12 serving. 13 If that's all that it is, it's a 14 reallocation, thank you, then we have our answer. 15 Parents have a right to know the answer to 16 the opt-out question. 17 Student privacy, and this is the big one: 18 Quite frankly, the Common Core, APPR, 19 high-stakes testing, it's a ruse. 20 Everyone's paying attention to that while 21 they're stealing your information out of your back 22 pocket. 23 That's what they're after. 24 That's what they've all been after right from 25 the get-go. 1 Once they have it, we'll never get it back. 2 I have -- when you ask SED about opting out 3 kids from the system and their data, they say, 4 "You have to ask inBloom." 5 Superintendents who have asked inBloom, and 6 here is the letter from inBloom, from, I don't know 7 how to say his name, but he's the chief executive 8 officer from inBloom, Iwan Streichenberger, and 9 I quote: 10 "Because our customer relationship and signed 11 agreement is with NYSED (New York State Education 12 Department), your request should be directed to 13 them." 14 I'm getting this [indicating.] 15 FERPA was changed in 2011, to allow these 16 third-party vendors access to this very important 17 data. 18 What we hear from SED: Oh, no, it's the same 19 information that's been uploaded over the years to 20 third-party vendors. 21 The third-party vendors that we used to be 22 talking about were the local data-management 23 systems, and it never went beyond them and us. 24 There has been a sharp increase in the amount 25 of data that's moving up in the data warehouse, and 1 at a fevered pitch. 2 I see it firsthand. 3 And there's 400 data points for every child 4 that's going up to inBloom. 5 Who is now -- that's times four for my kids. 6 That's a lot of data points. 7 The other related topic is the mandated use 8 of data dashboard. 9 SED says you have to pick one. 10 There are three State-approved vendors. 11 Now they were saying, if -- for the 12 districts -- well, so many districts had not chosen 13 one, that they had -- and they had moved back the 14 deadline for accepting a data dashboard three times, 15 they said, "Okay" -- I believe the next cutoff is in 16 two days -- "if you don't pick one by November 15th, 17 one will be decided for you." 18 That doesn't sound like America to me, sir. 19 Far from it. 20 So, in conclusion: 21 All of these -- this Reform Agenda has been 22 completely disastrous. 23 From the developmental inappropriateness of 24 the material, the anxiety, the unfairness to the 25 students and teachers, I don't see how you can 1 describe it as anything but. 2 The Commissioner and the Chancellor, in my 3 opinion, have lost their moral authority on this 4 issue, and it's time for a very big change. 5 Thank you. 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Neither one of you lacked 7 for clarity, so I don't have any questions, and 8 I was perusing the written testimony as well. 9 So, I appreciate you being here. 10 And, good luck with your kids. 11 TIM FARLEY: Okay, thank you. 12 Go green laces! 13 SENATOR FLANAGAN: All right, next, 14 Doug Selwyn and Wendy Richards. 15 Doug, I'm not sure that one is working. 16 Why don't you try on the other side there? 17 DOUG SELWYN: Test. 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: There you go, okay. 19 And, Doug, house rules, ladies first. 20 That's the way it goes. 21 WENDY RICHARDS: Well, first, 22 Senator Flanagan, I would like to also thank you for 23 chairing the Education Committee, and, really 24 looking into doing some good works for kids, and 25 I really appreciate that as an educator. 1 I am a doctoral student at 2 D'Youville College, and I have completed -- well, 3 almost completed my dissertation on the new APPR 4 system, and, never would I have thought this would 5 have been such a hot topic when I first started 6 looking into this. 7 I've in education for over 18 years. 8 I've a special-education teacher, I've been a 9 general-education teacher, and I've been an 10 administrator; and, most currently, I am a data 11 district coordinator at a charter school in Buffalo, 12 New York. 13 My research looked at four case studies. 14 I looked at two public schools in the city of 15 Buffalo, as well as two charter schools in the city 16 of Buffalo. 17 One of the public schools was considered a 18 focus school by New York SED standards, and the 19 other was considered a priority school. 20 The two charter schools, however, were both 21 considered in good standing, as of the latest report 22 card. 23 I really focused on four questions, but I'll 24 keep it to three for today's hearing. 25 The first was: How are teachers perceiving 1 the new APPR system? 2 I did not meet an educator who did not feel 3 that they should be evaluated, and they should be 4 evaluated -- there should be a standardized method 5 for evaluation. 6 What I did see, though, is teachers who were 7 concerned about the process of that evaluation. 8 They were concerned about the use of test 9 scores, where we've never seen a validity or a 10 liability test on a New York State assessment. 11 They were also concerned about the 12 consistency of the implementation process between 13 districts and among districts, even in the same 14 school. 15 They were concerned about the subjectiveness 16 of part of the evaluation, as well as being 17 evaluated -- and I think we've heard this already, 18 being evaluated on curriculum that they have not had 19 ample opportunity to become familiar with. 20 I also asked administrators the same 21 question, based on the teacher evaluations. 22 Administrators, who, prior to this 23 implementation were overwhelmed, are now more 24 overwhelmed. 25 They see time is a major factor. 1 They actually wanted and needed the 2 professional development to make them more 3 successful as observers. 4 And there was also a concern with the charter 5 schools, in terms of student growth, verse the first 6 question on the charter-school renewal, which is: 7 How are your kids meeting benchmark? -- which is 8 really a Level 3, and 4. 9 We could have a school that has effective 10 teachers, because of student growth, but we may not 11 be renewed because our scores are not at benchmark 12 level. 13 And the last thing principals and directors 14 stated was, there was low morale in the building. 15 Teachers are taking more time off. We're 16 seeing depression, as they clinically defined it. 17 And, they have a concern about that stress 18 and anxiety, and how it will play into students. 19 The final question was the impact their 20 perceptions have on the implementation of this 21 process. 22 There are very different perceptions on who 23 is supposed to be providing professional development 24 to, not only teachers, but also administrators. 25 When I talked to State Education officials, 1 they believe it's the district's responsibility to 2 provide that professional development. 3 When you talk to districts, they believe it's 4 the New York State Education Department's 5 responsibility to provide that. 6 There's also differences in what we call 7 "HEDI scale standards," even in urban settings. 8 So even -- all else being equal, we have 9 HEDI scales that go from, effectiveness, at 10 34 percent of your goal was met; to a HEDI scale 11 that goes -- that has 85 percent, beginning your 12 effective scale. 13 I know the teacher that was talking earlier 14 said she was effective, and she -- you know, she was 15 Teacher of the Year. 16 Depending on what HEDI scale they were using, 17 that may have made that difference. 18 There's a couple of unintended outcomes, one 19 being the visibility of administrators. 20 And I think that's a good outcome. 21 I think it's a positive outcome of the new 22 APPR system. 23 But one of the negative outcomes I see, is 24 that teachers are being less and less likely to give 25 up control of their classroom to student teachers, 1 because they're being evaluated based on how their 2 students do on the state test. 3 And I think if we're going to provide 4 meaningful education, student teachers need to be in 5 urban education as well as in suburban education. 6 I had posed some questions for you, and, 7 hopefully, I can get back to you on those. 8 But, I'll let me colleague over here speak. 9 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I do, just one quick 10 question before Doug starts. 11 And, certainly, have your testimony here. 12 I've heard the concern about the 13 teacher-student teacher compatibility, if you will, 14 at this juncture. 15 It seems to me that that's something that 16 could be addressed -- tell me if you disagree -- 17 through some aspects of the collective bargaining. 18 You know -- 19 WENDY RICHARDS: Through some aspects of, 20 what? 21 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Of collective bargaining. 22 WENDY RICHARDS: Uh-huh. 23 SENATOR FLANAGAN: So, I understand the state 24 tests, and everything else like that, but the things 25 that are negotiated at the local level, do you 1 believe there's an opportunity where schools -- you 2 can saying, Look, if you have a disproportionate 3 number of students with disabilities, or, you have 4 the disproportionate number of English-language 5 learners, or, if you are taking on a student 6 teacher, you will be evaluated differently? 7 WENDY RICHARDS: I -- as a teacher, it's hard 8 for me to say that just because I have students in 9 poverty, that I won't -- that my kids won't meet the 10 same standards as other kids. 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Completely understandable. 12 WENDY RICHARDS: I have high expectation for 13 all students regardless of whether they're 14 special-ed students, ELL students, and students in 15 poverty. 16 We just need the supports and the resources 17 to get them to where they need to be, and to close 18 that gap. 19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Sure. 20 DOUG SELWYN: So let me take that question 21 just to start, because part of what I do is 22 supervise student teachers, and I've just had my 23 students out in field. 24 It is much harder to find a classroom to take 25 students, for the reasons that you mentioned. 1 Is it possible to negotiate? Well, it 2 depends. 3 I think potentially it is, but, there are so 4 many barriers, there's so many complications to it, 5 that it certainly wouldn't be simple. 6 So, my name is Doug Selwyn. I'm a professor 7 of education at State University of New York at 8 Plattsburgh. 9 I was a classroom teacher for 16 years, and 10 then have been at university for the last 13. 11 And, given the short amount of the time, 12 I really just -- in my testimony, I am touching on a 13 number of different subjects, rather than going in 14 depth, and I assume we will go -- if you have 15 questions about any of them, but I wanted to refer 16 to two things that were mentioned this morning, 17 first. 18 One is, when Mr. Slentz was talking, the 19 disconnect between his perception of what's 20 happening and teachers' perceptions of what's 21 happening is pretty monumental. 22 His sense that we just need a little more 23 communication, that we need, this, that. 24 The teachers I work with -- and I'm in a lot 25 of buildings and in touch with a lot of people 1 around the state -- teachers do not feel heard, they 2 do not feel valued, they do not feel that the 3 Department of Education has any interest in what 4 they believe or what they're seeing or what their 5 experience is. 6 And so the idea that we're on track, blah, 7 blah, blah, is not shared by the teachers I work 8 with, it's not shared by the administrators. 9 And, in fact, what they're feeling is, they 10 are caught between -- as Mrs. Ferguson said earlier, 11 they are caught between what the State is requiring 12 and what they know to be good for children, which is 13 an impossible position to be in when you're a 14 teacher. 15 I mean, your first allegiance is to the 16 children. It has to be. 17 And when you are pulled away from what you 18 know to be good for kids, so that you can do 19 something that you know does not improve things, 20 that leads to a lot of sleepless nights. 21 And, to compound it, they are ordered not to 22 talk about it. 23 They are directed not to talk about it with 24 parents, not to talk about it in the community. 25 These are not conversations that happen in 1 school, so what happens is, there's silence; silence 2 coming out of the schools about what's happening. 3 And, so, people don't hear anything coming 4 from the schools, and assume it must be okay. 5 I think we're starting to hear noise at the 6 community forums, but those are led by parents who 7 are not so directly under the thumb of the State. 8 But teacher -- administrators say, If I make 9 trouble, we won't get the grants we need. We will 10 be disciplined in one way or another. 11 In a democracy, when the heart of democracy 12 is -- it really comes out of our schools. That's 13 where people learn how to be with each other, and to 14 question, and all that stuff. 15 If we're not able to have the conversations 16 that help us do better, I think that's a real 17 problem. 18 Couple of other things: 19 One is -- 20 I don't know how many children you have, 21 but -- 22 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I have three. 23 DOUG SELWYN: Okay. 24 -- would you say that they're alike, or not 25 alike? 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: They are all intensely 2 special on their own. 3 [Laughter.] 4 DOUG SELWYN: So is there any one assessment 5 you could imagine that would accurately capture all 6 three of them? 7 The problem with standardized testing is, 8 that we don't have standardized people. We don't 9 have standardized children. 10 That's only one of the problems, but, it's an 11 essential problem. 12 And the more that you try to standardize, to 13 say we all should be like "this," we're leaving a 14 lot of people out. 15 We're defining a lot of people's failure, 16 simply 'cause they don't measure according to the 17 one narrow measure that's being used. 18 It's not good assessment. 19 And we are basing much of what we have in our 20 system on the results of a test. 21 So, we're missing a lot of people, and we 22 need the full range of people in our society to make 23 our society work. 24 The bumper sticker for this year, and the 25 slogan changes every couple of years, is, 1 "college- and career-ready." 2 Well, what does that mean? 3 And I was really glad that Senator Seward 4 raised that point earlier. 5 When you ask employers what they want, and 6 this is just assuming we're talking about 7 entry-level workers, much less, managers or 8 directors which they may move into, they talk about 9 people who are problem-solvers, decision-makers, who 10 are flexible, who take pride in their work, who are 11 reliable, able to adapt, who are able to meet what 12 we can't possibly predict they're gonna meet down 13 the road in 10 or 15 years. 14 And, yet, the way we are measuring whether 15 people are well-educated right now is how they do on 16 paper-and-pencil tests in math and ELA. 17 We're squeezing out all of those other 18 characteristics. 19 There's much less time devoted to any of 20 those things, because, all day, every day, is test 21 prep. 22 It's not infrequent, if you talk to teachers, 23 they'll say, Thank goodness, it's May, I can finally 24 start teaching. 25 Is that what we want? 1 I want to talk a little bit about 2 Common Core. 3 People have talked, in various degrees today, 4 about how we must meet Common Core, how we can find 5 better ways. 6 Common Core; there is no research behind 7 Common Core that says this is better than anything 8 else. 9 It's something we're trying, but it was 10 developed by a private group, funded by Mr. Gates, 11 to tune of $147 million. It came out of the 12 National Governors Association, and -- and the chief 13 state officers. 14 Funded mostly by private interests, they came 15 up with the Common Core. 16 It was not field-tested. 17 It has not been piloted. 18 There is no research behind it that says this 19 is better than what we have, that this is the right 20 way to go. 21 It may turn out to be, but, at this point, 22 there isn't the research to back that up. 23 I would also -- well, let me step back a 24 minute and keep going in the Common Core, and then 25 I'll move to Race to the Top. 1 The teachers were not involved in developing 2 Common Core. They were not part of the group that 3 put this together. 4 And, they were brought -- there were some 5 teachers brought in at the very end of the process, 6 to give feedback after it was mostly done. 7 And I would pause it to give it a little aura 8 of legitimacy. 9 But, there are deep problems with the 10 Common Core. 11 It is developmentally inappropriate. 12 Given all of the testing that's happening, 13 we're squeezing curriculum that used to be at 14 third or fourth grade, down to first grade, so the 15 kids are not doing what they're developmentally 16 ready and -- developmentally ready to do. 17 They're filling out paper. They're learning 18 how to bubble-in sheets. 19 That's not what 6-year-olds should be doing. 20 That's not what 7-year-olds should be doing. 21 If you look at the -- if you look at the 22 standards in Common Core, they are totally 23 inappropriate, especially at the early grades. 24 Again, teachers are in an impossible 25 situation. 1 Do I know -- do I do what I know to be good 2 for my kids, or do I do what I'm -- I have to do to 3 meet Common Core? 4 It's an impossible place to be in. 5 One other note about Common Core: The people 6 who are most vociferous in their pushing of 7 Common Core, are people who are gonna to stand to 8 make an awful lot of money on this. 9 And I think -- I think if we ignore the fact 10 that having one curriculum that goes across the 11 country makes it easier for publishers to sell their 12 product to 50 states at once, rather than state by 13 state, and if we ignore the money that's gonna be 14 made when the Common Core tests, which are all gonna 15 to be done on computer, people are going to spend a 16 lot of money on those computers so that -- so that 17 kids, in whatever school, can take those tests, 18 there's gonna be an awful lot of software that's 19 bought in order to take those tests. 20 I don't know where the districts are gonna 21 get the money for that, but, the people pushing 22 Common Core have a strong economic interest. 23 So I think that's something we have to look 24 at. 25 Let's see. 1 Race to the Top, let me just say two things 2 about that. 3 We had somebody from the Department of 4 Education come up to Plattsburgh a few years ago to 5 talk to us about Race to the Top at the time it was 6 introduced. 7 And we said, So what research is there to say 8 that -- to show that this is the best way to go? 9 And this person said, "None." 10 Again, we're leaping without any research. 11 They want lots of data behind what we're 12 doing in the schools, but there's no convincing data 13 that says the choices we're making are supported by 14 research. 15 It's is not there, and so it's a guess. 16 Maybe there will be good things happening, 17 but, there's no -- you would think that there would 18 be more research required before making as huge a 19 leap as we're making. 20 There's substantial research making clear 21 that the major factors in determining test scores 22 are not what happens in school, but what happens out 23 of school. 24 ZIP code is the biggest predictor of how well 25 somebody is going to do on a test. 1 It's sad, but it's true. 2 And, one out of four kids in this country 3 right now are living in poverty. 4 That means that, on average, one out of four 5 kids, by definition, is gonna do worse on these 6 tests. It has nothing to do with what's happening 7 in the schools. 8 It has a lot to do with the fact we are 9 unwilling to tackle what really needs to change if 10 we want to bring up education; which is, to support 11 all of our citizens adequately. 12 And let me say two more things, and then I'll 13 stop. 14 First, the joy of teaching and learning, as 15 many have talk about already, has disappeared from 16 classrooms and schools. 17 Lifelong teachers, who, it's their passion, 18 they're turning and walking away. 19 Kids who used to love school, are in tears, 20 are staying home on Fridays, which have become test 21 days, and are no longer finding the joy in learning 22 that they once did. 23 Now they're learning the definition of 24 "learning" is taking tests and getting scores. 25 And the last thing that I want to leave with 1 you, the notion that -- and Kathryn mentioned this 2 earlier, the notion that our schools are failing. 3 The National Assessment of Educational 4 Progress (the NAEP) is regarded as the nation's 5 report card, and it's a sampling of education across 6 the country. 7 And, scores on the NAEP have gone up steadily 8 since 1990. 9 The scores today are higher than they have 10 ever been. 11 Now, the growth slowed once we started doing 12 high-stakes testing, but, still, the growth is 13 continuous. 14 So, the idea that our schools are failing is 15 a myth that is being put out to justify needing to 16 take drastic measures. 17 Certainly, we have to do better. 18 There are a lot of students who are not 19 educated as well as they should be. 20 But, we're also not in the crash-and-burn 21 mode that -- that is being described. 22 And when you correct for poverty, when you 23 recognize that poverty affects test scores, our 24 scores equal any country's in the world. 25 So, we're doing okay. 1 We could do better, but, we're not in crisis 2 mode that says we have to drop it all, bag the 3 research, and just jump in. 4 So, thank you. 5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: The only thing I would add 6 to that, is that, I think it is proper to be 7 critical where it's necessary, but it's also 8 extremely important to highlight where things are 9 going well, so that they can be replicated and 10 imitated. 11 And, imitation being the highest form of 12 flattery, you know, you look at somebody like 13 Mrs. Ferguson, we should be trying to talk about 14 those things as well -- 15 DOUG SELWYN: Well, and counties -- 16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: -- as a backdrop. 17 DOUG SELWYN: Excuse me. 18 And countries -- this was mentioned earlier, 19 people from, for example, China, one of our 20 "big economic competitors," so-called, are dying to 21 have their students learn how to do what they 22 imagine our students are doing, which is being 23 creative, being able to have critical-thinking and 24 discussions, and not simply to work towards a 25 routinized one-size-fits-all model. 1 America is a beacon for them, at the same 2 time that we're letting go of that to move closer to 3 what -- what is judged by many countries as 4 something they don't want to do anymore, which is to 5 have a routinized one-size-fits-all model. 6 So, I mean, I am just so appreciative that 7 you're asking questions and clearly hearing what 8 we're saying. 9 Because -- 10 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I'm listening, because you 11 talked about China, and I think Margarita spoke 12 about Spain when she testified earlier, so.... 13 DOUG SELWYN: Uh-huh. 14 Well -- and -- but that's it, we have to have 15 these conversations. 16 And because of the fear that's in our schools 17 right now, because of the reluctance of teachers and 18 administrators to speak out, we're not having 19 conversations. 20 Because the perception is, the Department of 21 Education doesn't want to listen, and that's a very 22 clear perception on the part of educators. 23 It's -- the conversations we need to have are 24 not happening. 25 And, we need them to happen. 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Good luck, by the way. 2 WENDY RICHARDS: Thank you. 3 SENATOR FLANAGAN: And thank you very much. 4 Next we have Bill Wolfe and Claire Sylvan. 5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Now, Claire, Bill is a big 6 guy, but he understands it's still ladies first. 7 Good afternoon. 8 BILL WOLFE: Good afternoon, Senator. 9 CLAIRE SYLVAN: Good afternoon, Senator. 10 Thank you very much for inviting me to speak 11 today, and to your Committee for holding these 12 hearings. 13 I'm speaking about English-language learners, 14 which have been mentioned quite a bit in some of the 15 other testimony. 16 It's actually the area that I've worked in. 17 I started teaching in 1979. I started as a 18 bilingual teacher in junior high school. I spent 19 12 years -- 11 years doing that. 20 And I spent another 18 years in high school, 21 teaching, again, English-language learners. 22 And, so, I'm going to speak today -- I want 23 to also mention, this is my first time doing this, 24 and I kind of feel like I went through a culture 25 war. 1 I was told I only had two minutes, and 2 I thought that was what I really had, so, you're 3 going to get very little in testimony, oral 4 testimony, and a lot of opportunity to ask 5 questions, because I kept my testimony short. 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Claire, certainly, make 7 your comments, but I want do want to reiterate, and 8 for everyone to hear, all of the written testimony 9 is part of the record. 10 So, I don't want anyone to misconstrue the 11 verbal component as the only thing that's gonna be 12 out there. 13 But, please, go ahead. 14 CLAIRE SYLVAN: Thank you. 15 So, one in ten students in New York State are 16 English-language learners. 17 We're one of top six states in the country 18 for English-language learners. 19 That said, English-language learners face 20 special demands, if you want to call it, a special 21 situation in meeting the high standards that we 22 believe they are able to reach. 23 Now, I work with a group of schools that 24 serve English-language learners in New York City and 25 around the country, about 7,000 students. 1 They come from 90 countries -- they speak 2 90 languages, they come from about 130 countries. 3 And, all of these students are perfectly 4 capable of reaching the standards that we want for 5 all students. 6 And I -- one of things I think is good about 7 the Common Core, is that we are saying that all 8 students should be able to reach those standards. 9 I think the question that we're faced with 10 is, what are the special situations of 11 English-language learners, and how does that have to 12 be taken into account in both implementation and 13 assessment of Common Core? 14 So, English-language learners face the same 15 tasks of learning complex instruction, academics, 16 particularly recently arrived immigrants. 17 But all English-learners face the demands of 18 acquiring a second language, or sometimes a third or 19 fourth because some students come to us already 20 speaking two or three languages. 21 And, they need to learn how to adjust to a 22 new country if they've just moved here. 23 If we look at the scores on the recent set of 24 2013 ELA and math scores, and people have talked 25 about how they have dropped around -- for all 1 students in the state. 2 For English-language learners, they scored 3 3 percent on the ELA, and 9.8 on the math. 4 Single digits on both. 5 Even more worrisome, from our perspective, 6 was that what happened in 2012 with graduation rates 7 in New York State. 8 While, overall, they were held steady, for 9 English-language learners, the graduation rates 10 dropped 5 points, to a shocking 34 percent. 11 That means, one in three students graduated 12 in four years. 13 21 percent, 1 in 5 English-language learner 14 dropped out of high school in 4 years. 15 So while we appreciate, and we do, very 16 deeply, the efforts by New York State Education 17 Department, the Regents, and also the Legislature, 18 to address these issues, and some of the measures 19 that are underway, such as the NCLB waivers, which 20 have been mentioned previously, specifically around 21 special ed, but also around a waiver for students in 22 grades 3 to 8, to (a) be exempt from exams at a 23 certain point, yet to be determined -- the waiver 24 hasn't been written, to my understanding -- and, to 25 be able to take assessments in their native 1 language, at this point just Spanish, we certainly 2 applaud that. 3 We applaud the development of the developing 4 of the bilingual Common Core progressions. 5 While we have some question about 6 particularities, the fact that people are even 7 thinking in advance that this needs to be addressed 8 is a good thing. 9 We particularly are grateful to the efforts 10 of the Senate and the Assembly to push forward the 11 State Seal of Biliteracy last year. 12 That came out of your Committee, and we're 13 particularly grateful to that. 14 For all of these things, we're very thankful. 15 But, we think that a lot more can be done, 16 because where we're at is not good enough for the 17 students that we think can and are capable of 18 performing in both their own language and in 19 English. 20 So our top priority is to ensure that there's 21 a pathway to graduation for English-language 22 learners. 34 percent is not enough. 23 We are particularly interested in ensuring 24 that late-entry students, students who come in when 25 they're adolescents and are faced with showing what 1 they do know about science, social studies, 2 mathematics, that they have other pathways to 3 graduation that reflect their being able to show, 4 through performance assessments, what they're able 5 to do, and not simply test it in ways that show what 6 they are not able to do. 7 They may have knowledge that is not being 8 reflected in the way we're assessing them. 9 We think that existing career- and 10 technical-education programs, high school 11 equivalency programs, second-opportunity programs, 12 need to be able to keep seats and serve this 13 population of students in the proportionate numbers 14 that they're reflected in the districts where 15 they're located. 16 We have to ensure that all the curriculum and 17 assessments that are being developed -- and people 18 have spent a lot of time talking about what is under 19 development, curriculum modules, and so forth -- 20 that they provide onramps for English-language 21 learners. 22 Right now, there's a ELL scaffolding project 23 underway, but that's not yet in the hands of the 24 teachers in most schools who need to use that, and 25 so the curriculum units, as presently designed, have 1 not yet taken into account, how do we ensure that 2 English-language learners can access and participate 3 in this curriculum? 4 We think that, in terms of teacher and 5 administrator preparation, all certification areas, 6 not just teachers of English as a second language or 7 bilingual teachers, need to be prepared prior to 8 entry into the profession, to know how to teach 9 English-language learners. 10 With one in ten students in New York State, 11 although concentrated in New York City, there are 12 growing numbers out, as you well know, on 13 Long Island, in other parts of the state. 14 If all teachers aren't prepared when teaching 15 math, social studies, reading, to figure out, How do 16 I ensure that the kids in my class who are 17 English-language learners can do this work, can 18 access it, can participate? then we're failing those 19 students. 20 And for those teachers already in the field, 21 we need to provide professional development to 22 develop their knowledge of how students who are 23 English-language learners can be supported in their 24 classrooms. 25 We also think competitive grants to expand 1 successful programs for English-language learners is 2 something that the State should consider. 3 And, lastly, we urge you, again, to do what 4 you did last year, which is to pass the State Dream 5 legislation and send it to the Governor. 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you, Claire. 7 Before Mr. Wolfe says anything, Doug, we were 8 talking about dialogue and conversation. 9 I've had a chance to work with Bill, and I'm 10 going to just take an editorial moment here and 11 speak to the value of the school that he works at, 12 which happens to be right up the block. 13 And, I had a chance to go up there and meet 14 the kids that are there. 15 These kids have major challenges in their 16 life, and lives, and, they are walking a fine line 17 between serious trouble and a really excellent 18 education. 19 It is incredibly gratifying to hang out with 20 these kids. 21 And equally as important, the staff up there, 22 they are beyond dedicated. 23 And, it just is a stark reminder for me of 24 what we are actually supposed to be doing. 25 So, Bill, it is nice to see you. 1 BILL WOLFE: How do I follow that, Senator? 2 My goodness, thank you. 3 Robert says hello, by the way. 4 I saw him last week. 5 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Please send him my best. 6 BILL WOLFE: I will. 7 You know, I'm Bill Wolfe. I'm the 8 executive director at LaSalle up in Albany, and 9 also the president of the New York State Coalition 10 of 853 Schools, and that's the role that I'm here 11 today for. 12 I'm really grateful to be here. 13 I know during the day, I've been here for 14 about three hours, we've heard a lot of discontent, 15 and it's not my intention to pile on to that 16 existing pile of discontent. 17 I have a few things to say, but I hope to be 18 positive. 19 We're pleased with the increasing awareness 20 and the valuable role played by 853 schools in our 21 state, not only on the part of you, Senator, and the 22 part of the entire Committee, but also among your 23 colleagues throughout both Houses of the 24 Legislature. 25 What you just said couldn't be more evidence 1 of the fact of the awareness of these kids and these 2 programs that are out there. 3 And, specifically, we're realizing important 4 progress in terms of funding and reform of tuition 5 methodologies which we rely on to support our 6 programs, and it wouldn't be possible without your 7 support and the support of others. 8 We've made recent terrific progress. 9 There's a lot of work to be done with 10 State Ed and with Division of Budget, and that work 11 remains, and we'll keep you posted on how that goes. 12 We're really pleased with that. 13 There are about 125 State Ed-approved 14 853 schools in our state. 15 Forty-five of these schools operate in 16 association with a residential program licensed by 17 one or more state agency: OMH, OPWD, OCFS, or 18 otherwise. 19 We're all over the state; we're highly 20 regulated and highly monitored. 21 And the children served in these schools are 22 among the most challenged in our state. 23 I'm not going to talk about the range of 24 disabilities and trauma that characterize these 25 kids, but let me put things in a little different 1 context. 2 Children served in 853 schools represent less 3 than one-half of 1 percent of the, roughly, 4 3 million school-aged kids in our state. 5 It's the very rare child that gets to our 6 level of programming, and it often means that, 7 despite all of their strengths, everything else has 8 been -- virtually, everything else that's been tried 9 has not worked for them. 10 My written testimony represents years of a 11 diverse group of stakeholders that work with this 12 population. 13 We do see a need for multiple pathways to 14 graduation. 15 We have our questions about the high-stakes 16 testing, and so forth, especially for these kids. 17 And we see this need, as I said, for multiple 18 pathways to graduation. 19 And "graduation" is the key word. 20 Graduation ought to be allowed to mean 21 different things. 22 For a 17-year-old who is recovering from a 23 traumatic brain injury due to an accident, a 24 19-year-old who spent all of his life with autism, 25 and an 18-year-old traumatized by violence or sexual 1 abuse, who has only a handful of high school credits 2 by the time they arrive in a program like mine. 3 And that criteria for graduation, for 4 example, ought to be different than what it was for 5 my daughter who, thankfully, faced none of those 6 kinds of challenges. 7 Our 853 programs are not designed for 8 children like my kid, or lots of our kids, but they 9 are designed and they do work with the kids that 10 I described. 11 I think we can have alternate pathways to 12 graduation, and diplomas that are responsive to 13 real-life circumstances that these children and 14 families are in; diplomas that are within the reach 15 of vulnerable children, like the ones served in our 16 schools; diplomas that are both relevant and 17 valuable because they create tangible opportunities 18 for employment and a productive life. 19 I think we can do that in this state. 20 These are not easy challenges to address, but 21 we can take some pressure off of these kids, and the 22 programs serving them, without any sacrifice of 23 standards. 24 My testimony is drawn from ideas that have 25 been shared with the State Education Department, 1 ideas that offer suggestions about how these 2 children can be better served in our 853 schools 3 without tracking and without marginalizing their 4 potential. 5 And, the response from SED leadership has 6 been encouraging, and we look forward to continued 7 discussions. 8 And we trust, and hope, that you're gonna 9 take an interest in the results of those 10 discussions. 11 And with respect for efficiency and 12 time-keeping, I'm going to close here, but not 13 before I repeat my appreciation for your continuing 14 interest in the work of our schools and the 15 challenges our programs face. 16 And most of all, for your interest and 17 concern for the small but exceptional group of our 18 state's children who find safety, recovery, 19 achievement, and an opportunity for the future 20 within our programs. 21 They deserve nothing less from all of us. 22 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I completely agree, and 23 I thank you. 24 One quick question, and I notice you have 25 some reference to difficulty accessing student data 1 through the data portals. 2 Is that accurate? 3 BILL WOLFE: I think the main issue is, so 4 much of the attention is given to the programs that 5 serve -- that operate in the public-school sector, 6 basically. 7 Sometimes there's either challenges of 8 legislative consent, if you will, or legislative 9 approval for those access; and then also inclusion, 10 in either funding or other regulatory opportunities 11 allowed to be in those [unintelligible]. 12 Sometimes the 853 schools are overlooked, 13 even though we are basically fulfilling, if you 14 will, the State's obligation, the State's look at 15 free and appropriate public education, through, 16 essentially, serving public education for the kids 17 who are these -- in these exceptional situations. 18 So that's part of what it's about. 19 Sometimes we just have to work with State Ed 20 and say, "You forgot about us. Did you really mean 21 to do that? And did you really mean to forget about 22 these kids?" 23 And usually it's, Well, oh, no, wait a 24 minute, we didn't, but, but, whoops! 25 You know, the ship has passed, so we've got 1 to go backward. 2 Those are the kinds of things that we need 3 attention to. 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Well, we certainly want to 5 help in that regard. 6 Claire, just one brief point. 7 You were talking one in ten, the predominance 8 in New York City. 9 We were in Buffalo for a hearing. 10 And there was testimony about -- you know, 11 I was listening. You think you know a decent amount 12 of things, and then you find out the burgeoning 13 population, they're the immigrant population, and 14 almost more like a refugee population. 15 CLAIRE SYLVAN: That's right. It's a refugee 16 resettlement center, a large one in Buffalo. 17 SENATOR FLANAGAN: See, I was listening in 18 Buffalo as well as in Albany. 19 CLAIRE SYLVAN: That's right. Absolutely. 20 Actually, there are a number of them in the 21 state. 22 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you for your time. 23 BILL WOLFE: Thank you. 24 SENATOR FLANAGAN: All right, 25 Dr. Brenda Myers and Ms. Judith Johnson. 1 DR. BRENDA MYERS: Good afternoon. 2 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Good afternoon. 3 Okay, this is Hobson's choice here. 4 You ladies will figure out who goes first. 5 DR. BRENDA MYERS: I will start with pieces 6 of the research background, and I think Judith has 7 some powerful stories about impact on children. 8 So, how does that sound? 9 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Sounds good to me. 10 DR. BRENDA MYERS: Senator, we appreciate 11 your time very much. 12 I have enjoyed the many hours of testimony 13 that you have taken, and I know you're listening. 14 I hear the repeated themes. 15 I am the superintendent of the Valhalla Union 16 Free School District with 1600 beautiful children. 17 I was previously the superintendent in 18 Senator Seward's area, Groton Central school 19 District. 20 And, I was the deputy superintendent in 21 Broome-Tioga BOCES, working with career and tech 22 alternative education and special-education 23 children, as well as research and professional 24 development. 25 I bring a background also in standards and 1 research design in learning theory and instructional 2 design, and so many of my comments come from the 3 work with the New York State Education Department. 4 I actually was a contractor and rolled out 5 the original standards statewide, and, have worked 6 on the development of the New York State math 7 standards, and, led the writing committee through 8 the process grants in mathematics; and, currently do 9 research in that area, in applied instruction. 10 I -- 30 years in education, I have never been 11 more worried about how we are viewed as a public 12 institution, as a cornerstone of democracy. 13 It is difficult when public schools face 14 economic demise at the same time we have unfunded 15 mandates that we cannot control and sometimes 16 understand. 17 While there is a public message that schools 18 are failing, nothing could be farther from the truth 19 in my daily experience. 20 My written comments outline some of the 21 understandings we have about systems improvement, 22 and when we dig down into where we are right now, 23 there are some real reasons for the problems we're 24 facing. 25 We're looking at reforms that are built on 1 accountability and not capacity building, where 2 we've forgotten about collaboration and systemic 3 reform, and we are not basing our work on research. 4 I want to talk to you about Common Core for 5 just a minute, because I hear a lot of the 6 conversations, and we do have a misunderstanding 7 about Common Core in many ways. 8 First of all, when the Common Core Standards 9 were designed, they were designed in a back-mapping 10 fashion, as I'm sure you know. 11 So we take an exit outcome and then we filter 12 it back. 13 The problem is, everything gets kind of 14 chunked up at the end. 15 And, so, without a developmental theorist on 16 the design team, we have gaps in what children 17 actually can do and achieve. 18 The other problem we have with the 19 Common Core Standards is the clear implementation of 20 those standards. 21 So, now, we have different learning in the 22 year, but the students coming to you didn't learn 23 what was required the year before, so you have these 24 incremental gaps in learning that will take several 25 years to sort out no matter what module or 1 curriculum that you use. 2 You also are asking with the Common Core for 3 far more learning in 180 days, and in mathematics, 4 typically, 40 minutes a day. 5 You cannot achieve that amount of learning in 6 the given amount of time, and we've been unable to 7 address those issues of time no matter how hard 8 we've tried. 9 So, we look at the Common Core and we see 10 very clearly that -- I work specifically with the 11 mathematics -- the progressions are deep and 12 well-thought-out, the practices are powerful, but 13 when you look at the state exam, the item map 14 focuses on content and skill, and not reasoning and 15 representation. 16 We have no evidence about how our students 17 have done on the exam or what we need to focus on to 18 help them improve. 19 Sometimes the data we receive is so narrow. 20 I was working with one of the fellows, and 21 I was asking about the difference between the item 22 map developed by Pearson and the bookmarking that 23 was used to establish Level 3, because there's quite 24 a disconnect. 25 Well, one was written by Pearson, and one was 1 written by a fellow, and those two pieces have not 2 been able to come together so we have a clear 3 picture of what's really expected from our students. 4 We certainly could have picked some other 5 options, and we certainly could have had a stronger 6 research base in moving forward. 7 I want to go to a second issue, and as a 8 superintendent, I face this challenge every day when 9 a parent calls me and says, "Why is my student a 10 '1'? What happened to my child?" 11 And I don't have easy answers for that, 12 because I can't unpack, I can't look at the test. 13 My teachers cannot look at the exam. 14 And you've heard that over and over again, 15 that we need to be far more transparent with how the 16 assessment actually is intended to measure 17 Common Core, so that we know what it is that we're 18 aiming for and how to help our children. 19 I actually made the decision in our district 20 that we have an outside company score our state 21 exams. I was fearful, because my teachers would be 22 in jeopardy if they talked about the exam. 23 So if they were there, analyzing it and 24 looking at it, the natural thing would be to talk 25 about it. 1 And they were told they weren't allowed to 2 talk about the exam, even when they were scoring it. 3 So, that kind of disconnect in what is good 4 practice, how do we help teachers? 5 I think you've heard over and over again, the 6 most powerful moment in the learning of a child is 7 the moment between the teacher and the child, and 8 resources and energy need to go there. 9 And right now everything is pulling us away 10 from that. 11 If you look at the state Reform Agenda, 12 there's no room for instruction. 13 We talk about testing and we talk about 14 evaluation, but instruction is where the power 15 really comes to meet the needs of the children, and 16 I know you've heard that in other testimony. 17 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Can I -- let me ask a 18 question on that point. 19 In not only listening here, but having many 20 outside conversations, in looking -- and there are 21 certain assumptions in my question -- that, forget 22 the, sort of the, implementation of the problems 23 attendant with that, just on the modules themselves, 24 in talking to real policy people at NYSED, one of 25 the things they were saying to us is -- because 1 I was asking about the quality of the modules -- 2 You know, you can have -- if you have 250 of 3 them and they all stink, it doesn't matter. 4 -- but it -- so, in asking about the quality, 5 one of the frustrations that I was hearing is, even 6 if you think it's good, getting it all done in 7 180 days is, many times, impractical. 8 Even if you're an effective teacher and you 9 have it, it sounds like they're saying there's -- 10 I don't want to say more work than necessary, but 11 it's hard to complete what you are supposed to in an 12 appropriate timeframe. 13 Do you find that in your own district, or do 14 you hear that? 15 DR. BRENDA MYERS: I want to give you several 16 examples about the modules. 17 One is that, the modules, we have a couple of 18 disconnects. 19 So, the modules were crafted by giving out an 20 RFP and having different companies. 21 So in literacy, you have one company doing 22 the primary modules, K through 2. 23 You have a different company doing 3-5. 24 They don't have the same philosophy. 25 And so I would never adopt those modules as a 1 school district because that would be a complete 2 disconnect in the program. 3 But the State Education Department gave out 4 the awards that way. 5 So that's one question we have about the 6 modules. 7 I was going to the algebra modules. 8 In July, they were rolling out the first 9 module; full-day training on the module. 10 When I talked to the trainers, because I've 11 done this design work, I asked, "Where was this used 12 with children? How did you try this out?" 13 It wasn't. 14 It was not piloted with children. 15 I don't understand replicating materials 16 across the state that have not been through a trial 17 cycle with students. 18 I've designed many powerful lessons, and when 19 the children come, they aren't so great anymore. 20 You know, you need to give it a go. 21 I also was talking to them, and they said, 22 Well, we're going to have to be working all night 23 tonight because we have another module due. 24 So these are people with good intention, 25 designing instruction that, now, is supposed to be a 1 standard that wasn't tried with students. 2 And as of today, if you were using those 3 algebra modules, you'd have trouble implementing 4 them because of time, but you only have the first 5 four modules. 6 It's very hard to think about your year if 7 you can't see the entire curriculum. 8 The other problem we have with modules, they 9 include curriculum, "What do we want kids to know 10 and do?"; instructional strategies; as well as 11 assessments. 12 It's kind of like: Well, how take 13 Common Core and take the teacher out of it? Just 14 teach the module? 15 That's not how you the works. 16 The teacher has to be thinking about their 17 curriculum, their instruction, and their assessment. 18 They need the alignment. 19 There's no way to just package and implement 20 the module. 21 So you've highlighted the issue of time, and 22 several issues that go with this concept that kind 23 of substitute for strong professional development; 24 the planning of teachers meeting the needs of 25 students, that you've heard in testimony. 1 You know, what's interesting, I think I'll 2 bring up again and again for you, that, the research 3 based on this is sketchy at best. 4 So we have two examples: 5 One is student-learning objectives. 6 Student-learning objectives, as a theory in 7 this country, has never been used in this way. 8 It is no wonder that school districts across 9 the state are challenged by how to implement 10 student-learning objectives, and the idea that we 11 would give kids a pre-assessment on things that they 12 don't understand, so that we can then measure them 13 again to see if they have grown. 14 It's also a real disconnect. 15 We have included in our packet for you, 16 35 school districts hired an outside -- University 17 of Wisconsin, to study first year of growth scores, 18 and we intend to repeat that study, because we are 19 concerned about the research methodology and the 20 development of the growth scores. 21 But a portion of our teachers get growth 22 scores, a multi-million dollar contract based on 23 state exams. 24 That is nowhere equivalent to 25 student-learning objectives, nor should it ever be 1 compared. 2 And so, again, this research base, this 3 thinking, how do you put the process together? 4 I was talking to the State Education 5 Department after the exam, and I had many students 6 in my district not complete the exams. 7 And I thought that was a little strange, and 8 I asked them about that. 9 And one of the comments made was, Oh, you 10 know, we didn't realize that would happen. 11 When you give a statewide exam, and you've 12 done proper field-testing, and you know the demand 13 of the items, you know how students will perform 14 before they take the test. 15 Having students not finish shouldn't have 16 been a surprise. 17 I can give you more examples of where we're 18 concerned about the research base, where we think we 19 need strong research studies to follow up and to 20 look at the implementation. 21 I want to bring to your attention, also, our 22 conversations about data, the privatization of data, 23 the loss of control of our data, concerns all of our 24 parents. 25 And one of the things in our study that's 1 very clear, is that when you go down this road of 2 growth scores, you're challenged by an idea of 3 linkage. 4 We're spending hours and hours of time, and 5 many dollars in resources, trying to assure how many 6 minutes a child got ELA every day, so that we can 7 create a linkage between the teacher and calculate 8 the dosage. 9 Hundreds of hours of time that really should 10 be spent thinking about the best teaching strategies 11 for our children. 12 The moment of time between the teacher and 13 child is the most important time. 14 It's where the resources need to go. 15 We're a firm believer in the power of public 16 schools, the promise, the partnership, and the 17 potential. 18 We thank you for asking the questions, and 19 for always partnering with us. 20 You know, we always thought the 21 State Education Department, working with the 22 Legislature and the Board of Regents, that school 23 districts would be protected from issues of politics 24 and finance, but what we're finding ourselves right 25 now, is we're just being tossed around in the throes 1 of both of those issues, and the focus on teaching 2 and learning has been lost. 3 Thank you. 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you. 5 JUDITH JOHNSON: Thank you, Brenda. 6 I'm going to modify my comments just slightly 7 to talk about the comments you rise -- you raised 8 about time. 9 But just a little bit of background: 10 I spent 40 years in education, and had just 11 about decided to retire, when I was asked if I would 12 help Mount Vernon through its search for a 13 superintendent. 14 So, I've a been there about fourteen months. 15 All of my experiences have been in public 16 education in high-poverty school districts. 17 That's my choice. 18 But I also spent almost four years in 19 the U.S. Department of Education, working with 20 Secretary Reilly, as, first, a deputy assistant 21 secretary for education, and then the acting 22 assistant secretary for elementary and secondary 23 education. 24 And I do understand the process of waivers, 25 and I think we don't use them well here in Albany. 1 In the written testimony that I submitted 2 last night, I outlined nine areas. 3 I'm certainly not going to reiterate the 4 nine areas in this short time that we have, but they 5 should be subjected to a policy review, and here's a 6 slight modification I would like to make. 7 Marc Tucker, in a paper, "Standing on the 8 Shoulders of Giants," critiques the effort of the 9 United States to model the educational systems of 10 successful school districts -- successful countries. 11 He notes, however, that the strategies now 12 most popular in the United States are conspicuous by 13 their absence in the countries that we have called 14 countries with the most successful educational 15 systems. 16 "Conspicuous in their absence." 17 So, if we are going to begin to think about 18 how we educate all of our children, I'd like to 19 focus on the issue of high poverty, and what that 20 means. 21 In a diverse country where privilege is too 22 often determined by one's socioeconomic birth 23 conditions, we have an obligation to view public 24 education as the opportunity to level the playing 25 field. 1 Schools are the one American institution 2 intended to provide that opportunity. 3 I offer this introduction to pose the 4 following question to the Regents Reform Agenda: 5 Are our educational policies in the best 6 interests of our children and our democratic 7 beliefs? 8 We have an ambitious reform agenda, but there 9 is a problem. 10 And when there is a problem with a policy, 11 where there's rancor and anger, we must stop and ask 12 why? and we must listen. 13 The current reform policies are intended to 14 allow children to compete successfully in the global 15 marketplace, and, if the policies are intended to 16 move children from the levels of poverty that 17 diminishes their hopes, their spirits, and their 18 aspirations, then we must ask ourselves if we're 19 meeting that goal. 20 I don't mention in the written testimony the 21 concept of the whole child, nor do I mention 22 funding, because there's no time to do that, and 23 I can't spend time on that today; however, if we do 24 not produce fundamental improvements in how we 25 educate low-income children, the trends that 1 I present in the written testimony -- the low 2 literacy levels, the low [unintelligible] levels, 3 the low graduation rates, the high incarceration 4 rates -- all these outcomes will ricochet across all 5 aspects of our society for generations to come. 6 So allow me to comment on a few of the 7 questions that you've raised. 8 The Common Core Standards, the standards 9 movement is 23 years in evolution. 10 It had a noble beginning, but at this point, 11 it has lost some of its power, because we no longer 12 understand the intent of the original standards 13 movement, which was to periodically define what it 14 is that we want our students to know and be able to 15 do to compete in a successful global marketplace. 16 There is no alignment at this point between 17 the assessments and the standards, and we're 18 defining for children their levels of achievement by 19 the test scores or the levels that they receive. 20 That does not improve aspiration; it 21 diminishes hope. 22 When 85 percent of a school performs at 23 Level 1, and 2, the school defines itself as a 24 failing school. 25 It does not need a headline in the local 1 paper. 2 The level of maturation and ongoing research 3 needed to implement this level of standards reform 4 cannot be implemented in one year. 5 Teachers need time and a safe environment for 6 their own professional growth. 7 The decision to administrator the new state 8 assessments based on new Common Core Standards 9 before any research can be conducted was an 10 egregious example of a judgment decision in the 11 absence of observable facts. 12 And let's look at the cost. 13 In the written document, we made an effort -- 14 high-poverty school districts will make an effort to 15 try to raise the standards to meet the Common Core 16 Standards, because, essentially, what the 17 Common Core Standards really reflect are 18 higher-order critical-thinking skills. 19 We didn't need to spend many millions of 20 dollars to define that, and that seems to take place 21 in high-performing school districts. 22 So if we want our kids to demonstrate their 23 performance without an observable ZIP code, that's 24 an admirable thing for teachers to want to do. 25 I point out that, in Mount Vernon, using 1 federal funds, we have spent $1.5 million to train 2 teachers and to purchase materials. 3 "$1.5 million." 4 The estimated expenditure for training 5 teachers is approximately $2,800 per teacher, for 6 approximately 800 teachers thus far. 7 We are measuring our success through surveys, 8 through assessment data, and we are also looking at 9 the state assessments, what little data they can 10 give us. 11 That is all grant money. 12 Our property owners, our taxpayers, do not 13 have those dollars. 14 Those are grant dollars that could have been 15 used to provide enrichment activities, performing 16 arts, extended day. 17 Think of the wonderful opportunities we could 18 provide for poor children that occur naturally in 19 high-wealth school districts. 20 So the question now becomes: Are we at least 21 missing the intent of the Common Core Standards, and 22 should we be thinking differently about the way in 23 which they are implemented? 24 Now, let's to go teacher evaluation. 25 Yes, we need to hold all of our educators 1 accountable. 2 The current system does not do that. 3 So the purpose of the current evaluation 4 system, using student data to evaluate a teacher, is 5 highly suspect. 6 We have to force -- we were forced to abandon 7 a comprehensive evaluation system that was 8 performance-based, and allowed for teacher progress, 9 student progress, and continuous growth over time. 10 There is no way to measure who sits in my 11 classroom, when the children who come in may be 12 living in a shelter, may be living in an abused 13 setting, may be living in conditions that could lead 14 to what happened two weeks ago, fires in homes where 15 they are illegally developed. 16 Am I running out of time? 17 SENATOR FLANAGAN: You're doing fine. 18 JUDITH JOHNSON: Keep going? 19 So, how do you measure the aspirations of 20 those children, who, despite the fact that their 21 home may have burned the night before, or that the 22 abusiveness may have taken place in their home, or 23 that their last meal was the meal they had at lunch 24 the day before, or the breakfast that we provide in 25 the morning? 1 How do we ensure that we keep their 2 aspirations high and their hope alive, when what 3 we're doing is saying to them, We're going to have 4 pep rallies and rap songs so that you all can get 5 ready for the state exams, instead of getting ready 6 for graduation, and, hopefully, a life that is 7 devoid of poverty? 8 And this we know, and this is a very damming 9 statistic: For every ten children born in poverty, 10 the number who will remain poor as they reach adults 11 grows each year. 12 It is now said that six of every children 13 born into poverty will enter adulthood at 21 still 14 poor, still underemployed, still unable to 15 contribute to our tax coffers, and heavily dependent 16 on our entitlement systems and the penal system. 17 Imagine if the money we spent on entitlements 18 and penal systems were spent, instead, on 19 early-childhood education and enrichment, so that 20 every child, regardless of birth conditions, could 21 contribute to the state tax coffers upon reaching 22 adulthood. 23 So let's talk a little bit about the 24 assessment system. 25 You cannot make a decision about my future -- 1 and I was a poor child in a housing project -- based 2 on what is going on and what is happening in 3 80 hours of testing a year. 4 What is it; what evidence do we have that the 5 items are valid, that they're reliable, that they 6 have been subjected to increased scrutiny by a 7 variety of leaders who, themselves, should be 8 defined as well-prepared if they're going to make 9 decisions about a child child's future? 10 Teaching is itself an assessment strategy. 11 As a teacher, we check for understanding, and 12 we re-teach when we see the need. 13 We give project assignments that allow 14 students to apply their new knowledge, and we can 15 tell when the work is being done by a parent. 16 So we allow the teachers the professional 17 obligation to continuously assess and test for 18 understanding. 19 And I recommend that we immediately reduce 20 the level of testing to four grades: grade 3, 21 grade 6, grade 8 and grade 10. 22 Those are transition grades. 23 Grade 3: I am now moving into intermediate 24 grades, can I read for understanding? 25 Grade 6: I'm preparing for intermediate 1 school. Do I have the skills and knowledge that 2 I need? 3 Grade 8: Am I ready to take on the 4 challenges of a rigorous high school curriculum? 5 And, grade 10: Am I truly ready for college 6 and careers? 7 And in each of those instances, this is not 8 about retention. This isn't even about remediation. 9 This is about acceleration and enrichment for 10 children who need the additional help to be 11 successful. 12 There is something about parent voice that's 13 missing from the Reform Agenda. 14 Poor parents are never asked, what are they 15 thinking and feeling about the Reform Agenda? 16 Our poorest families often wield the least 17 power and have little political and social capital. 18 Their voice is hardly ever sought after, and 19 their children attend the lowest-performing schools. 20 I will spend just a little bit of time on the 21 privacy issue, and then I would like to offer you 22 the opportunity to ask me some questions. 23 The privacy issue is a very important one for 24 us. 25 We all have, in school districts, 1 data-management systems. 2 They allow us to retrieve data for many 3 purposes. 4 Teachers can monitor student growth over 5 time; 6 Parents can monitor the performance and 7 attendance of a child; 8 Administrators can observe trends either at 9 the building or classroom level; 10 We can use data to determine if disaggregated 11 groups are overrepresented in suspensions and 12 referrals to special ed. 13 We do not want this data made public. 14 If the courts understand that they are going 15 to seal the records of a 16-year-old who is caught 16 up in the system, so those records don't follow him 17 or her into adulthood, why would the State construct 18 a system that might subject this student to scrutiny 19 later in one's adult life or early adolescence? 20 The concept of a data-management system 21 already exists. 22 The need now is to ensure that before one 23 stroke is entered into a revamped system, the issues 24 of privacy and costs have been completely addressed 25 and settled. 1 I'm just going to stop by saying that my 2 biggest concerns are around the percentage of 3 children who are deemed poor. 4 In Illinois, just last week, it was pointed 5 out that they have finally reached the 6 majority/minority level. 7 49 percent of Illinois' children are now 8 deemed poverty-ridden. 9 We're going to reach that number very soon in 10 New York State, and then across the nation in our 11 urban centers. 12 So in America, I point out that the standards 13 movement has actually two goals: 14 One, to ensure that all of our children are 15 performing at levels that allow them to be 16 competitive in the global marketplace, but also 17 allow them to be competent, moral citizens. 18 We can't forget that. 19 The second goal of public education should be 20 to allow everyone who chooses, to leave behind the 21 traditions of poverty, because the school system has 22 provided them with the skills, knowledge, and 23 experiences they need to be successful as adults. 24 And there is nothing that we have seen in 25 this current reform movement that sets that priority 1 as the highest of priorities for New York State, and 2 for America. 3 Those are my comments. 4 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you. 5 One is a request. 6 You referenced 80 hours of testing. 7 I would appreciate if you would send, for our 8 consideration, exactly what you believe that to be. 9 JUDITH JOHNSON: I think it's in the 10 appendix, but I'll make sure that I send it to you, 11 yeah. 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay, all right. 13 Second, what's, roughly, the percentage of 14 free and reduced lunch in your district? 15 JUDITH JOHNSON: In Mount Vernon it's 16 75 percent. 17 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. 18 So it's very close to -- I think they said 19 Schenectady was, like, 80 percent. 20 JUDITH JOHNSON: Yeah, it's a very different 21 life when you are eligible for free and reduced 22 lunch. 23 SENATOR FLANAGAN: One of the things in 24 traveling around the state, in a lot of our rural 25 schools have significantly high levels of poverty as 1 well, and looking at combined wealth ratios and 2 things that do affect all the funding, that clearly 3 has an impact. 4 However, I do have one other question. 5 I feel like I have a captive audience right 6 here. 7 You worked at the U.S. Department of 8 Education for four years, and you said we don't do 9 waivers well. 10 JUDITH JOHNSON: Here in New York State. 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay. 12 Does that mean we don't apply enough? 13 We don't implement well enough? 14 What -- how do you define what you said? 15 JUDITH JOHNSON: I sat on the other side of 16 the table in D.C. when the waivers came in, and, 17 depending on the strength of the waiver, and the 18 argument that was presented, they were fairly 19 considered. 20 So it's what you say, how you document it, 21 what your purpose and your outcome, what they are 22 intend to accomplish, that should frame a waiver. 23 The Commissioner -- the Secretary of 24 Education already offered one waiver to every state, 25 that we did apparently not take; and he offered 1 states the opportunity to delay the use of test 2 scores in APPR until 2015-16. 3 He made that offer in July. 4 To my knowledge, New York State did not take 5 that offer. 6 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Okay, as a follow-up to 7 that: On the English-language learners, and more 8 particularly, the students with disabilities, there 9 was discussion about, I think a pending waiver and a 10 prospective waiver. 11 And I'm not sure if you were here the whole 12 time, but, the more I listened, the more it seems to 13 me that we need to be working in concert with our 14 federal officials so that we don't have to ask for a 15 waiver on something like that; but, rather, that 16 they should get rid of that type of regulation. 17 JUDITH JOHNSON: There was -- I will tell you 18 that I think we made a mistake when we were there, 19 when we moved to saying that English-language 20 learners should be tested in English after one year 21 in this country. 22 That was a -- and we knew that it takes 23 seven years to really accomplish literacy in a 24 second language at the same time that you build on 25 your own native language. 1 I think we have lost that battle, and I think 2 that needs to be revisited. 3 It's a mistake to assume that an 4 English-language learner, particularly if the child 5 is not literate in his native or her native 6 language, can perform at an English level in a state 7 exam after one year in this country. 8 That's simply not possible. 9 But we do need a way of determining two 10 things: 11 Are they strengthening their native language? 12 Because we are one of the very few countries 13 on this planet where kids are not -- do not speak 14 two languages, and that's a mistake. 15 And the other is, are we ensuring that the 16 students are getting the skills they need to begin 17 to comprehend and speak in English at the same time 18 that they continue to build their second language? 19 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Well, I would say this: 20 I -- you have now been the interim 21 superintendent for 14 months, and my sense is 22 they're probably not going to let you go. 23 However -- 24 JUDITH JOHNSON: I'm in a straitjacket if 25 that happens. 1 [Laughter.] 2 SENATOR FLANAGAN: At the time that they do 3 let you go, you would probably be an excellent 4 ambassador for our state, to go down and look to 5 modify or revamp some of those regulations. 6 JUDITH JOHNSON: Yeah, yeah. 7 SENATOR FLANAGAN: To both of you, thank you 8 very much. 9 JUDITH JOHNSON: Thank you. 10 Okay, Stephen Jambor, vice president, 11 Westchester-Putnam School Boards Association, to be 12 followed by Sheena Hervey. 13 Is Sheena still with us? 14 You know what, Sheena? Why don't you come 15 down now and join Mr. Jambor. 16 STEPHEN JAMBOR: Good afternoon. 17 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Good afternoon. 18 STEPHEN JAMBOR: I'll wait. 19 Hello. 20 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Stephen, I can tell, 21 without even asking, that you're a gentleman, so 22 we're going to let Sheena go first. 23 STEPHEN JAMBOR: Of course. 24 SHEENA HARVEY: Oh, I'm losing the privilege 25 of going last. 1 First of all, thank you very much for 2 allowing me to testify, and, I would just like to 3 explain my accent. 4 I came to New York in 1996, at the request of 5 Tony Alvarado and District 2 in New York City. 6 I came to meet him at lunchtime, to talk 7 about professional development, and I haven't gone 8 home. 9 So, half my career was in New Zealand, where 10 I was a teacher, a principal, and worked in teacher 11 education; the other half has been working in 12 New York City, mainly in the poorest schools serving 13 the poorest areas, working with teachers. 14 And, I consider that a privilege. 15 I consider it a privilege to be able to work 16 with teachers in schools. 17 I consider it a privilege to work in 18 New York; and even more so, in New York City. 19 I think when you look at the problems of 20 rolling out any initiative, the world "scale" was 21 something I simply didn't understand when I came 22 from New Zealand. 23 The whole of New Zealand is the size of 24 Brooklyn, so, "scale" wasn't something I even had to 25 think about. 1 But one of the things that I think, and 2 I guess, as I've been listening today, I've heard 3 things that I didn't expect to hear -- I should have 4 expected to hear, but I didn't; mainly because 5 I have just recently come back from working down in 6 Mississippi and Louisiana, and some of the southern 7 states, and I was very glad to get back. 8 As yet, they are waiting to roll out the 9 Common Core down there, and I think -- and some of 10 the schools, they was in hoping it would go away. 11 So I came back to New York feeling really 12 proud of the fact that this is the third year of 13 implementation. 14 And when you leave New York and you go to 15 other places, they talk about the exciting things 16 that are happening. 17 Now, I'm not looking at it with rose-tinted 18 glasses and pretending that everything is okay, but 19 I see something like the Common Core as a tremendous 20 opportunity in education. 21 We know the statistics, we know the 22 international comparisons. 23 We know that what we were doing, no matter 24 how well intended it was, wasn't good enough; and it 25 may have been good enough in the past, but not good 1 enough for the future. 2 And I think that the Common Core gives us a 3 chance to sit back and have a look at that. 4 The other thing we were hearing today a lot, 5 was, How quickly should this be rolled out? Should 6 we slow it down? 7 And I think it's like everything in 8 education, it's very hard to make a decision like 9 that. 10 On one hand, if we really believe this is 11 good for kids, why would we not do it quickly? 12 And at the other hand is, what's good for 13 teachers isn't always good for kids. 14 And I think that that's something that's very 15 hard to balance, and it's something in my current 16 position that I balance every day. 17 Because, other than working as chief academic 18 officer for Generation Ready, the other half of my 19 time is senior literacy advisor for the New York 20 Department of Education in the Middle School Quality 21 Initiative. 22 And on that, we are going into schools and 23 working in the bottom 25 percent, or schools that 24 have been traditionally low-performing, and putting 25 in a comprehensive initiative that is geared towards 1 turning that around. 2 And when you look at, go into those schools, 3 you realize you can't wait. 4 You can't wait another two years. 5 Those kids will be in high school, so we have 6 to do something now. 7 And I guess what I'm lucky enough to see on a 8 daily basis, is what a difference it makes when 9 teachers are provided with support. 10 When you go from school to school to school 11 and you see them implementing the same thing in very 12 different ways, depending on the leader in the 13 school or the capacity of the teachers, one of the 14 things that I guess has really struck me, I have 15 seen the very best teaching I've ever seen anywhere, 16 and I've been around a long, long time in New York. 17 I've also seen the very worst, and I can see 18 them in classrooms beside each other in the same 19 school. 20 And I guess I have never before in my life 21 seen that degree of variation. 22 And when you talk to the people in these 23 classrooms, they come from very different 24 backgrounds in terms of preparation. 25 Some of them have had a six-week course over 1 the summer, and then thrown into the most difficult 2 schools under the greatest stress, and we wonder why 3 they struggle and provided with very little support. 4 Other people have been through a four-year 5 undergraduate tertiary institution, they come out 6 highly qualified, and so on, and you see them 7 teaching side by side, and struggling. 8 So I guess what I have learned, is there are 9 very smart people in teaching, but very different 10 degrees of preparedness for their teaching. 11 So what I want to talk about is professional 12 development. 13 And I think that in a system, we heard about 14 lack of research, and we've heard a lot of things, 15 but the one thing we do know, the greatest impact, 16 or the greatest change, or the greatest variation, 17 in any student's life is the quality of the teacher 18 in front of them. 19 So we can put in new initiatives, we can put 20 in new curriculum, and that's being done, but, 21 unless we change the teaching, nothing much changes. 22 And I think that we saw that when, the first 23 year, when the Common Core was first rolled out. 24 For a lot of people, they said, Oh, this is 25 what we've all been doing. 1 Actually, no, it's not. It's very, very 2 different. 3 And for a lot of people, they put the 4 learning outcomes in the beginning of the units of 5 study and continued in very much the way they had 6 been. 7 Other people saw it as a complete shift in 8 how they believe children learn, and you saw quite 9 significant changes in their classroom. 10 So I guess the thing that I'm saying, is if 11 we're asking teachers to teach in a very, very 12 different way, and in many cases, a profoundly 13 different way, then, we have to acknowledge that 14 teachers in this circumstances are learners and they 15 deserve the same respect of anyone. 16 And they deserve a chance to find out about 17 it, they deserve a chance to be supported, they 18 deserve to have someone guide them through that 19 process. 20 And I'm thinking, I heard someone speak the 21 other day about a friend of theirs who was a 22 orthopedic surgeon. 23 Now, this person is in his 40th year of 24 being an orthopedic surgeon, and has had to have to 25 three complete changes of the way he works, three 1 complete licensing changes, where you sit in your 2 examinations; and, yet, we sort of figure that 3 teachers will figure it out for themselves. 4 So I guess what I would like to say, and then 5 I'll stop, is that, I think that a lot of the 6 reforms that are coming were probably necessary, and 7 I think they are very well-intentioned, but if we 8 don't address the teachers in the system and provide 9 support for them, and put funding into that, then 10 very little is going to change for the students in 11 our schools. 12 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you. 13 I have one question. 14 I'm just going to pick a number. 15 Let's assume that statewide, we had 16 $50 million of new money available specifically 17 earmarked for professional development. 18 How do you think that that should be 19 distributed? 20 SHEENA HARVEY: Can I give you an example? 21 Would that be okay? 22 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Sure. 23 SHEENA HARVEY: It wasn't $50 million, but it 24 was a lot of money, when the Common Core was being 25 rolled out in New York City. 1 They had five pilots. 2 They put in place five pilots. They were all 3 worth exactly the same amount of money, and, they 4 looked at various things. 5 Now, I was involved in the one that was 6 looking at test complexity. 7 We were working in international schools, and 8 the international schools in New York have students 9 that have been in the country less than three years; 10 so, students that were struggling to speak English, 11 and certainly struggling with [unintelligible]. 12 Now, of those five pilots, the text 13 complexity one actually moved teachers the furthest, 14 because the money was put into supporting teachers 15 in the classroom, and helping teachers come up with 16 what needed to happen. 17 Because what we find, time and time again, is 18 that you can put curriculum in front of teachers, 19 you can put all sorts of things in front of them, 20 but, teachers themselves actually are very good at 21 doing that. 22 And we found that if you just talked to 23 teachers, or you supplied teachers with time to 24 think about the complexity of their tests, they 25 actually knew what to do. 1 And the teachers, when we first went in -- 2 and I think this is really quite important -- that, 3 when we first went into these schools, we saw very 4 hard-working teachers who were absolutely committed 5 to those kids. 6 And if I hadn't been there, I might have been 7 critical of some of the things they were doing. 8 But when they talked about why they were 9 doing it, they were copying out textbooks at nights, 10 and they were summarizing them for the students, 11 because the students couldn't read them. 12 And what we had to ask the teachers to do was 13 step back a bit, and saying, "Is that really 14 helping?" 15 Because what's really happening, is you're 16 doing all the work. You're giving the content to 17 the kids, but they not learning to read. 18 So, we stepped back a bit, and we talked 19 about what made the texts difficult, so, what do the 20 kids to be able to do? 21 And when we did that, they started giving 22 some ownership to the students, and they could see 23 the students moving, and at that point, they were 24 sold, and you could see that their teaching was 25 changing, and that that would continue for a long 1 time. 2 But it took someone to be beside them, 3 saying, Let's take this, I want you to try this. 4 You've got support while it happens. Nothing bad 5 can happen. 6 Because the other question I would like to 7 ask is, that ever since I've been here, I hear, 8 "Will they allow us to do it?" 9 Now, I have never worked out who "they" are, 10 but, seemingly, "they" told teachers that they're 11 not allowed to do this, this, and this. 12 And I guess, to me, that's a symptom of lack 13 of confidence on the part of the teaching 14 profession, and I would like to see that turned 15 around. 16 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you. 17 Stephen. 18 STEPHEN JAMBOR: Hello again. 19 Thank you on multiple levels. 20 I believe you are the only Senator, member of 21 the Reform Commission, who made all the stops all 22 around the state a while ago. 23 Thank you again for dropping down into 24 Putnam, of all places, about six weeks ago. 25 And thank you, of course, for being here. 1 SENATOR FLANAGAN: That was a good event. 2 That was well-attended. 3 STEPHEN JAMBOR: Well, it has well-attended, 4 but the point is, we need partners like yourself who 5 are gonna continue the conversation, and make it a 6 conversation, because this is not a one-time event, 7 obviously. 8 Which brings me to, who I am; what do I do? 9 As a way of background, I've been involved in 10 this conversation for an extremely long time. 11 I'm old. 12 And that's not a bad thing. 13 It gives you a sense of history. 14 SENATOR FLANAGAN: I'm sorry, did you say, 15 you were mature? Correct? 16 STEPHEN JAMBOR: I'm old. 17 [Laughter.] 18 STEPHEN JAMBOR: On a good day, I'm mature. 19 But it's a good thing, because it gives you a 20 sense of perspective. 21 And batting down in the lineup here, I see 22 many of the things that I would have talked about 23 already out on the floor, so I'm gonna have a 24 different way of going into it. 25 As licensed psychologist, working with 1 children for an extremely long time, teaching at 2 Fordham higher education, being a local school-board 3 president, now being a vice president of West Put, 4 I've seen the ballgame from a lot of different 5 angles, and I want to just boil down written 6 testimony, and my main theme, to one simple issue 7 today, that I would hope people can leave with, and 8 that is a word called "validity." 9 So, I'm going to drop "rigor." 10 I respect what was said about "rigor" today, 11 although we do use that in a statistical sense. 12 "Validity" means you're measuring what you're 13 purporting to measure, and you're measuring it well; 14 not because the State or the feds want you to do it, 15 not even because the parents want you to do it. 16 In my little world as a psychologist, it's an 17 ethical responsibility. 18 You don't know how you're helping forward the 19 welfare of the child unless you're employing valid 20 means. 21 So here's the historical perspective, and it 22 will be a very brief one. 23 An extremely long time ago, when I was back 24 in graduate school, I had the fortune of doing the 25 data crunching, which eventually became part of the 1 argument for us winning the Northport case. 2 What was the "Northport case"? 3 It was brought to question, whether or not 4 these two children in Northport were unfairly being 5 denied a high school diploma. 6 We won. 7 We won simply because, the state assessments 8 then, and we're talking late '70s or early '80s, 9 they would be the basic competency tests, were found 10 to be invalid. 11 Why are they invalid? 12 And this is an age-old argument that we still 13 haven't gotten right. 14 They're invalid simply because, though they 15 were purported to be measures of achievement, 16 "what do you learn in school?" they ended up having 17 a distinctly positive correlation to intelligence; 18 what you walk into the ballgame of life with by way 19 of nature. 20 That's not supposed to happen. 21 You don't want a state achievement test to be 22 positively correlated to intelligence. 23 You want your state achievement test to stand 24 on its own two legs, more or less, and to tell you 25 the "Ed Koch" question, "So how are we doing?" 1 You don't want to know that, who was tall, 2 academically speaking, walking into the building is 3 still kind of tall, and the short one is kind of 4 short, still. 5 That's an invalid approach. 6 So here's the sad news: 7 Now, what, from the late '70s to the early 8 '80s, to now, we still have the same problem. 9 We sent the data -- and Brenda referred to it 10 before, I'm in that same area -- we sent the data 11 from the current testing out to Wisconsin. 12 We paid for an independent evaluation. 13 And among other things, we found out -- this 14 is so keen -- we found out that out-of-school 15 factors contributed significantly, if not as 16 significantly, to students' level of achievement as 17 teaching. "Pedagogy." 18 Whether people were trained or not, the 19 individual differences that students present with, 20 in terms of their native ability, are showing up in 21 achievement test scores. 22 Not a very good picture at all. 23 You've heard the testimony today, I'll merely 24 underline it again: 25 Poverty, a big factor; 1 Gender, still a big factor; 2 ELL, a big factor; 3 Classification in special education, still a 4 big factor; 5 And, the ZIP code; where you live, obviously. 6 So, our tests are not clean. 7 That's very bad news for decision-makers, 8 because if you're going to use those scores, which 9 are not clean, as part of decision-making on 10 personnel, APPR, [unintelligible] schools in need of 11 improvement, or anything else about your 12 public-education system, you have major-league 13 exposure. 14 As a board-of-education person, that means 15 dollars to worry about: sued. 16 Every time you make a decision using faulty 17 numbers, invalid numbers; numbers that reflect 18 native ability and not what we're teaching, you're 19 running the risk of being sued. 20 Now, that's not the reason why we should be 21 doing good things with our numbers. 22 Remember, I started talking about ethical 23 responsibilities, I want to end with that same 24 theme. 25 This is an ethical responsibility to build it 1 right, or, fix it until it is right. 2 And by the way, I don't agree with Mr. Gates 3 very much, but he's absolutely correct: 10 years. 4 "Ten years." 5 We learned that in graduate school three 6 decades ago: 10 years to build a good test. 7 Is that fast enough? 8 No, it's not. 9 But when Piaget was presenting 40 years ago, 10 they asked him the question: So now that we know 11 the stages of development, how can we make them 12 happen more quickly? 13 And he stood back, as only he could do, and 14 he said, "That is an American question. We rush too 15 much." 16 We don't want to rush. 17 This is not a race to the top in that sense. 18 This is a rush, if you will, to get it right; 19 which means, take your time, get it right, make it 20 valid, please. 21 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Stephen, thank you. 22 I appreciate your comments. 23 Your patience as well. 24 And I did like the sketches in your 25 testimony, particularly the one about moving along 1 the same track. 2 But, to people who are still here, deeply 3 appreciate your time and effort and patience. 4 And, this is the conclusion of our 5 fifth hearing. 6 Reiterate, that all the written testimonies 7 up online. 8 Any comments that are submitted between now 9 and Friday will certainly be made part of the 10 record. 11 And, I am grateful to my colleagues who have 12 attended a number of these hearings. 13 And our intention is to put this together, 14 package it up, send it to SED, to the Governor, to 15 the Regents, I think to our federal representatives 16 as well, so we can have some buy-in on some of the 17 dialogue that needs to be had. 18 And ultimately it comes down -- to me, it 19 comes down to a couple of basic things, I said it 20 before: 21 Parents want the same thing for their kids. 22 It doesn't matter what country you're in, 23 what state you're in, whether it's New Zealand or 24 Spain, people want to have great access to a 25 equality education for their children. 1 Second, ultimately, it's got to be about the 2 kids, no matter how we dance around it. 3 What are we doing to improve the lives of 4 children? 5 And then there's a direct corollary to that 6 with teachers. 7 I was -- I'll close with this: 8 I was in the Three Village School District 9 yesterday, where we had a significant public forum 10 last night, but, we met a number of teachers, and 11 two of them stick out in my mind. 12 One was a woman named Lisa Walls [ph.], who 13 was completely engaged with the kids in the class, 14 and she was doing an outstanding job going through 15 decimals and fractions, and engaging the kids. And, 16 they were very receptive, and they were very good at 17 participating. 18 Then we had a gentleman named 19 Rich Geddes [ph.], who was in sixth grade, and he 20 was teaching science, and, he was really good. But 21 what was even better, was how much the kids in the 22 class were participating. 23 He would ask a question, 15 or 20 kids were 24 raising their hands. 25 And, it was great to see. 1 And I know that that is happening in hundreds 2 and thousands of classrooms across the state of 3 New York. 4 So, we have a lot of work to do collectively, 5 but I also think there's a heck of a lot of good 6 things going on in education that we have an 7 obligation to talk about. 8 So to all of you, thank you very much. 9 (Whereupon, at approximately 2:54 p.m., 10 the public hearing held before the New York State 11 Senate Standing Committee on Education concluded, 12 and adjourned.) 13 ---oOo--- 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25