Public Hearing: To Examine Requiring Ignition Interlock Devices for School Buses in Light of Events Involving Intoxicated School Bus Drivers

Suffolk Transportation Service, Inc. 16

Paul Mori 102 123 17 Board Member

NYS School Bus Contractors Association 18

David Kelly 128 132 19 Executive Director

Coalition of Ignition Interlock 20 Manufacturers 21 F. Craig Lotz 128 132

Chief Executive Officer 22 Sens-O-Lock of America, Inc. 23 24 25 1

SPEAKERS (Continued): PAGE QUESTIONS 2

Christopher M. Mistron 147 3 Traffic Safety/STOP-DWI Coordinator

Nassau County Traffic Safety 4

Al Belbol, Jr. 145 5 Co-President

Levy-Lakeside Elementary School PTA 6 7 ---oOo--- 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Ladies and gentlemen, 2 thank you very much for being here today. 3 My name is Senator Charles Fuschillo, and I 4 am the Chairman of the New York State Transportation 5 Committee. 6 To my far left is Assemblyman Dave McDonough, 7 Assemblyman Mike Montesano; 8 And to my right is Senator Carl Marcellino, 9 and Senator Lee Zeldin. 10 And I would like to thank Farmingdale State 11 College, and its president, Dr. Hubert Keen, for 12 allowing us to hold this hearing in this beautiful 13 new campus center. 14 When a parent puts their child on a school 15 bus, they're placing their child's life and safety 16 in the hands of the driver. 17 The vast majority of school bus drivers take 18 that responsibility very seriously. 19 However, we have seen some drivers ignore 20 their responsibility, abuse parents' trust, and 21 endanger children's safety, by driving drunk. 22 On Long Island alone, there have been at 23 least four incidents since last October, where 24 bus drivers got behind the wheel, intoxicated. 25 One bus driver crashed into a Syosset home, 1 with five young children on board. 2 Another drove his bus on the LIE with a BAC 3 nearly ten times the legal commercial limit, and a 4 half empty bottle of vodka, after dropping off a 5 busload of middle-school students. 6 A third crashed his bus, with four children 7 on board, into a parked car because he was allegedly 8 intoxicated. 9 A fourth was arrested, while ability was 10 impaired, after backing his bus filled with 11 29 middle school students into a tree. 12 Incidents like this are among parents' worst 13 fear. While they do not happen regularly, they have 14 happened before, and they can happen again. 15 In a few minutes, we'll be hearing testimony 16 from Melissa Escudero. Her son, Christian, was a 17 passenger on the school bus which crashed into a 18 Syosset home. 19 Christian is also in the audience to watch 20 today's hearing, and we thank both of them, and his 21 grandmother, for being here today. 22 The questions we will discuss today is, 23 "How do we stop these incidents from occurring?" 24 because children -- because parents have every right 25 to expect, and demand, that their children's bus 1 driver is sober whenever they get behind the wheel. 2 Ignition interlocks are one option that 3 should be explored. A number of states, including 4 New York, use these devices to help prevent 5 convicted DWI offenders from driving drunk again. 6 Ignition interlocks have a proven track 7 record of success. 8 Estimates are, that the interlocks have 9 reduced repeat DWI offenses by 67 percent. 10 Using this technology in all school buses is 11 one way to prevent a drunk driver from operating the 12 bus. 13 Advancing technology will eventually give us 14 other options we can explore as well. 15 Technology is being developed which detects 16 alcohol in the driver's skin when he or she touches 17 the vehicle's steering wheel or gear shift. 18 Smaller breath-test devices are also being 19 developed as a part of the vehicle's key, which 20 would require the driver to breathe into it before 21 starting the car. 22 During the course of today's hearing, 23 discussions will include, but not limited to: 24 Crashes caused by intoxicated bus drivers; 25 Whether New York State's current pupil 1 transportation laws should be strengthened to 2 further protect children from drunk drivers; 3 And recent legislation that would require 4 ignition interlocks be installed into school buses. 5 The Committee will hear testimony from 6 concerned parents, as well as experts in the field 7 of law enforcement, education, transportation, and 8 technology. 9 And we thank all of you who are testifying, 10 and for being here today. 11 I would also like to note for the record that 12 we have received written testimony from the New York 13 State Department of Motor Vehicles, and the New York 14 State Department of Transportation. 15 Carl, do you want to say anything? 16 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Good morning. I'm 17 Senator Carl Marcellino, and I'm pleased to be here 18 today. 19 This is an important hearing, and an 20 important issue to be discussed. 21 The incident in question occurred at my 22 church, St. Edwards in Syosset. 23 I live in Syosset. 24 The person whose house the bus went into is a 25 good friend of mine, and a commissioner on the 1 Syosset Fire Department. 2 So I know the situation up there, I know the 3 road up there, I know the driveway up there that 4 they went through, and the whole situation. 5 My mind is open on this issue. I have not 6 been convinced either way: to go with interlock; not 7 to go with interlock...whatever. 8 The thing that I have, is that those of you 9 who come up, if you are opposed to this device being 10 placed on a bus, come up with an alternative. 11 Just don't just say no. That's not 12 acceptable. 13 You got to give us something to work with; 14 otherwise, we're going to come up with our own 15 answers, and, you may not like them. 16 So, my suggestion is: Give us suggestions, 17 give us alternatives, other than simply saying no. 18 Thank you. 19 Lee? 20 SENATOR ZELDIN: Good morning. 21 I want to thank you, Chairman Fuschillo, for 22 having this hearing this morning. 23 I would like to really attribute my comments 24 to what Senator Marcellino said as well. 25 I too come here with an open mind, to hear 1 all sides, and I ask for suggestions from any 2 opponents. 3 I've heard a lot of thoughts and feedback on 4 both sides of the issue, so, I think that this 5 hearing is a great way to flush out all of the 6 arguments and come up with the best solution. 7 Thank you again for -- to Chairman Fuschillo 8 for his leadership on this issue. 9 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you very much, 10 Senator Zeldin, and Senator Marcellino. 11 And to my left, we are joined by 12 Senator Dilan, who is the ranking member of the 13 Transportation Committee. 14 SENATOR DILAN: I would just like to say 15 good morning to all, and I look forward to hearing 16 the testimony this morning. 17 And also thank Senator Fuschillo. 18 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Before we go to our first 19 witness, the -- one of the pieces of legislation is 20 Senate Print Number 1347, by Senator Maziarz, which 21 would require that any school bus manufactured for 22 use in this state after July 1, 2015, would be 23 equipped with an ignition interlock device, and it 24 must be operated in an unsupervised manner. 25 Additionally, buses manufactured prior to 1 July 1, 2015, the school board may, by resolution, 2 require the retrofitting of an ignition interlock 3 device in any or all such buses, and the cost of the 4 installation and retrofitting is aidable 5 transportation. 6 The first individual to testify is 7 Melissa Escudero. 8 Good morning, Melissa. 9 MELISSA L. ESCUDERO: Good morning. 10 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: And thank you very much 11 for being here. 12 MELISSA L. ESCUDERO: Thank you for having 13 me. 14 I would like to thank Senator Fuschillo, and 15 the Senate Standing Committee on Transportation, for 16 inviting me here today. 17 My name is Melissa Escudero. 18 I am one of the parents whose child was a 19 victim on Wednesday afternoon, October 3, 2012. 20 My son and four other children boarded the 21 school bus on their way home, but they never made 22 it. 23 I was telephoned a little after 3 p.m., to 24 come to the school immediately. 25 For my safety, I was not told at the time 1 that my son was involved in an accident; however, my 2 intuition said something was wrong, as my son should 3 have been halfway home at that time. 4 That afternoon was when my world turned 5 upside down. 6 Sorry. 7 My husband and I left immediately to the 8 school. The anxiety of the unknown was both 9 emotionally and physically painful for me. The time 10 seemed like eternity. The possibility of something 11 tragic happening just overtook me. 12 You see, Christian is my only child. He was 13 born premature, and I almost lost him then. So for 14 me, he is my miracle baby, although he was 8 years 15 old at the time of the accident. 16 I was unable to reach the school by car, 17 since the traffic on the main road was at a halt due 18 to the accident. 19 Therefore, I had to get out my vehicle, and 20 run blocks to the scene. 21 One lady even stopped me to say she heard 22 someone may have died. 23 I then saw my son's school bus smashed inside 24 someone's home. My heart just stopped, as I thought 25 there were casualties. 1 Seconds later, I was then approached by many 2 officials, informing me that my son was okay, and 3 that he was a hero. 4 According to police officials, parents, and 5 school staff, they said my son had checked on the 6 defendant's condition. 7 My son noticed the defendant was bleeding on 8 the side of his head and was nonresponsive. 9 All the children on the bus were crying and 10 scared, as they were trapped. 11 My son moved to the back of the bus, and was 12 able to lift the emergency lever and escort the 13 children out of the minibus. 14 It was then, parents came to rescue the 15 children. 16 This accident was called "a miracle." 17 This accident occurred during dismissal time. 18 Any other day, parents wait for their 19 children in front of that very same home that was 20 struck. 21 The owner of the home had left earlier, to 22 run some errands. 23 Though my son is physically okay, he 24 experienced nightmares for the first two nights 25 after the accident. 1 We even prayed for the defendant that night 2 of the accident, thinking that he had a heart 3 attack, or was of some sort of medication. 4 It was the following day the media released 5 that the defendant was DWI. 6 As for myself, I experienced constant chest 7 pains, and have visited the ER twice. 8 Though my son continues to take the school 9 bus, I continue to feel anxiety every time he boards 10 the school bus. 11 I am fortunate that I am speaking a different 12 story. 13 My feelings toward the defendant, is that he 14 act irresponsible and selfish. He took these 15 innocent children's lives into his own hands. 16 Though the school bus company reported that 17 the defendant had a clean driver's license, I highly 18 doubt that this was the first time he drank behind 19 the wheel. 20 For this person to have passed out while 21 driving, he had to have consumed an abundance of 22 alcohol. 23 There have been three other school bus 24 accidents after this case. All accidents were due 25 to DWI. 1 Something needs to be done immediately in 2 regards to these bus drivers getting drunk during 3 the hours of driving students to and from school. 4 We cannot continue to let this happen, and 5 wait for a tragedy to happen to react with tougher 6 laws. 7 I am currently advocating to installing 8 ignition interlock devices on each school bus, and I 9 will not stop until this law is approved. This law 10 will not only benefit the safety of the children, 11 but pedestrians and citizens as well. 12 As for the defendant, I hope he seeks 13 professional counseling with his alcohol addiction, 14 and that he never be able to work with children 15 again, nor regain a license to drive. 16 I pray that the court sentences the defendant 17 has -- has see fit as above-action mentioned. 18 Let us all act together, and not wait for 19 tragedy to strike. 20 Thank you, and God bless. 21 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you very much, 22 Melissa. 23 And we are joined by Christian. 24 Christian, thank you very much, and we 25 applaud you. 1 [Applause.] 2 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: We applaud you, young 3 man, for having the courage, and the sense, to act 4 the way you did, and not panic. 5 You saved the lives of many of your friends 6 there on the bus. 7 And we really appreciate you being here. 8 But this gets you out of school too, doesn't 9 it? 10 MELISSA L. ESCUDERO: No, not really. 11 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: No? Okay, he's got to go 12 back. 13 MELISSA L. ESCUDERO: Got to go afterwards. 14 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: So, you stay here all 15 day. We'll give you a little note, an excuse. 16 Senator Marcellino will sign it, because it's in his 17 district. 18 [Laughter.] 19 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: But, Melissa, we thank 20 you very much. 21 And, I had met you previously in my office. 22 And it's nice to meet your son. And your mom 23 is here as well. 24 And because of you, we're here today. 25 And, the individual was recently sentenced to 1 one year in jail, as I recall. Correct? 2 MELISSA L. ESCUDERO: Yes. 3 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: So, any questions from 4 anybody? 5 Senator Zeldin? 6 No? 7 Melissa, thank you very much for your 8 testimony. 9 MELISSA L. ESCUDERO: Thank you. 10 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: We appreciate it. 11 Christian, thank you. 12 MELISSA L. ESCUDERO: Thank you. 13 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: The next speaker is 14 Assistant District Attorney Brendan Ahern, from the 15 Vehicular Crimes Bureau of the Nassau County 16 District Attorney's Office. 17 Good morning, Brendan. 18 BRENDAN AHERN: Good morning. 19 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: And thank you very much 20 for being here. 21 BRENDAN AHERN: Thank you for having me. 22 Thank you, Senator Fuschillo, Chairman; 23 honorable members of the Transportation Committee; 24 distinguished guests and other speakers that you're 25 hearing from today; members of the public that are 1 here today. 2 This is a critically important hearing. 3 And, thank you to all our partners who are 4 committed to protecting our schoolchildren, who are 5 committed to saving lives. 6 I will be reading a prepared statement from 7 the Honorable Kathleen M. Rice, district attorney of 8 Nassau County, and president-elect of the Nassau -- 9 excuse me, New York State District Attorneys 10 Association. 11 At the conclusion, I would certainly be 12 available to take any questions from the Committee. 13 My name is Assistant District Attorney 14 Brendan Ahern. 15 I'm a supervising assistant in the 16 Nassau County District Attorney's Vehicular Crimes 17 Bureau, where I'm tasked with prosecuting homicides 18 involving drunk, drugged, or otherwise criminally 19 dangerous driving. 20 I'm also the supervisor of misdemeanor DWI 21 trials, and our Felony Screening Bureau. 22 The District Attorney deeply regrets to not 23 be able to be here personally today, but she has 24 personally requested that I deliver the following 25 address: 1 Where we have the power to save the life of a 2 child, we must act. 3 Where we possess the technology to prevent an 4 unspeakable tragedy, involving the injury, and 5 death, of a bus full of schoolchildren, we must act. 6 Where we possess the ability to protect our 7 children from the trauma of being the victims of, 8 and witnesses to, a violent crime, we must act. 9 Our young schoolchildren are defenseless. 10 They are defenseless in the hands of an adult 11 who chooses to drink and drive. 12 We must do all that we can to defend and 13 protect these defenseless children. 14 We must act, and we must act now on this 15 issue. 16 Waiting to act until after a school bus full 17 of young children crashes, sending children from 18 their school bus, to the hospital, or, God forbid, 19 the morgue, is unacceptable. 20 District Attorney Rice joins 21 Senator Fuschillo and all of our partners in 22 supporting this commonsense legislation, to use our 23 advances in technology, to protect our 24 schoolchildren. 25 Ignition interlocks ensure that there's a 1 last line of defense to protect our children, no 2 matter what warning signs are missed that a school 3 bus driver is a problem drinker. 4 We've already seen the need for interlocks. 5 We have seen recent examples, across 6 Long Island and across the state, where the safety 7 systems in the commercial-vehicle industry failed. 8 Self-regulation of alcohol and drug use by 9 that industry is woefully inadequate. It's failed 10 repeatedly; it's going to fail again. 11 But no place is that failure more defenseless 12 than in the vehicles we entrust to transport our 13 children. 14 The technology's available to ensure that a 15 drunk driver never, never gets behind the wheel of a 16 school bus again. 17 Let's act. 18 Our local communities here on Long Island 19 have already seen these several instances where 20 individuals with serious drinking problems have 21 gotten behind the wheel of a school bus full of 22 children and driven drunk. They are gravely 23 dangerous when they do so. 24 These warning signs must not be ignored. 25 In March 2013, a school bus driver in 1 Suffolk County was sentenced, after being found 2 driving drunk. He was highly intoxicated on the 3 Long Island Expressway, which, as you know, is 4 busiest, fastest road on Long Island. 5 He had a shredded tire, a half-empty bottle 6 of vodka in the center console, multiple young 7 children on board, and a .23 blood-alcohol content, 8 nearly three times the legal limit. 9 And as the Senator mentioned, that's well 10 beyond the commercial limit. 11 Studies have shown that a crash is nearly 12 guaranteed at that astronomical blood-alcohol level. 13 Those studies were the basis for the 14 enactment of the aggravated DWI statute, setting the 15 level of aggravated DWI at a .18. 16 This bus driver was a few drinks beyond that. 17 The children on that bus were defenseless. 18 They were saved by concerned citizens who 19 called 911 because of the erratic driving. 20 Other drivers called 911, and they saved 21 those children before it was too late. 22 If that drunk bus driver is not stopped by 23 members of Suffolk County law enforcement, under 24 those circumstances, he's capable of killing every 25 single one of those children on that bus. 1 An ignition interlock would have prevented 2 that highly drunk bus driver from even turning the 3 bus on. 4 It's, of course, important to note that this 5 is a statewide issue. 6 To exemplify that, I draw your attention to a 7 Steuben County criminal case from several years ago. 8 In that case, a school bus driver was driving 9 drunk with a fully loaded school bus. There were 10 over 30 children on board. 11 In the town of Thurston, at 7:00 in the 12 morning, the drunk school bus driver drove off the 13 road, into a ditch, across a driveway, 14 overcorrected, and veered all the way across the 15 street, where he nearly drove across the other side 16 of the street. 17 Excuse me, "she." 18 The force of the crash into the ditch 19 propelled several children's heads into the roof of 20 the school bus. They suffered serious head trauma. 21 The drunk school bus driver continued on her 22 route. 23 It wasn't until hours later that a safety 24 resource officer at that school heard about the 25 crash, and she was tested. 1 Hours later, she's still above the legal 2 limit, at a .10. 3 She would later plead guilty to DWI, 4 34 counts of endangering the welfare of a child, and 5 two counts of felony second-degree vehicular 6 assault. 7 An ignition interlock would have prevented 8 that school bus driver, that drunk driver, from 9 starting the bus. 10 The interlock would have prevented the 11 injury, serious head trauma, to two children. 12 The interlock would have prevented the trauma 13 that's inflicted upon every child victim and their 14 parents, and that community. 15 We know that the betrayal of trust is 16 alarming and shocking in each instance where an 17 adult is trusted to -- by parents to safeguard their 18 children. 19 But sometimes the greater shock, is that no 20 child is seriously physically injured, or worse. 21 In Nassau County, we prosecuted an alarming 22 and shocking case. 23 It was alarming because of the egregious 24 conduct of the driver -- the school bus driver, and 25 happily shocking that no child was seriously 1 physically injured. 2 It was, The People of the State of New York 3 versus Frederick Flowers. 4 You just heard from the victims. 5 It was just after 3 p.m. on a Wednesday, this 6 past October, five young schoolchildren boarded a 7 school bus outside of their elementary school, 8 St. Edward the Confessor, in Syosset. 9 There were two 9-year-olds, an 8-year-old, a 10 6-year-old, and a little 5-year-old. 11 The children were completely defenseless as 12 they walked past their school bus driver, 13 Frederick Flowers, to take their seats on the bus. 14 Not a single one of them would know how to identify 15 a drunk driver at that moment. 16 When Mr. Flowers closed that door, and 17 locked that door behind the children, they were 18 trapped. He was just moments away from imposing a 19 nightmare on these children. There's nothing that 20 they could do to stop him. 21 Mr. Flowers had spent the hours leading up 22 to that moment, drinking. 23 The children spent their day at school in the 24 care of their children [sic]. Their parents were at 25 work at home, at home, elsewhere, believing that 1 their children were safe, and they'd see them soon. 2 Mr. Flowers had passed every pre-employment 3 screening, that including, drug and alcohol testing, 4 and a background check, a DMV check. 5 But the screenings don't stop him that day, 6 from going to a local store, picking up alcohol, and 7 secretly drinking it. 8 Nothing was in place to stop Mr. Flowers. 9 He put the key in the ignition, pulled out of 10 the driveway of the school, and immediately careened 11 across the street -- immediately across the street, 12 off the road, across a lawn, and he plowed into the 13 garage of a local home with devastating force. 14 I brought for you today, these exhibits, 15 because you must see with your own eyes, and 16 understand the force that this bus went into this 17 house with. 18 We speak around at high schools, and we show 19 these types of pictures to kids, to teach them a 20 lesson. 21 And one thing I'm always reminded to say, is 22 there was people on that bus. There were children 23 on that bus. 24 Unbelievably, none of the children were hurt. 25 Miraculously, and fatefully, the homeowners 1 were out of harm's way. 2 Amazingly, not a single parent was out in 3 front of this home, because that's where they 4 usually stood every day at dismissal time, waiting 5 for their children. 6 The drunk bus driver was injured. He was 7 airlifted away from the scene. 8 That's how serious this crash was. 9 Medical personnel drew his blood, because 10 everyone must have assumed that this was a medical 11 emergency. 12 How could he be drunk? 13 His only serious medical condition, was he 14 was intoxicated. 15 Members of the Nassau County Vehicular Crimes 16 Bureau worked with the Nassau County Police 17 Department. 18 We secured his first-drawn blood, we tested 19 it. It was a .10. 20 He was charged with multiple counts of 21 endangering the welfare of a child, reckless 22 endangerment, and felony DWI under the Leandra's Law 23 statute that was championed by this Committee. 24 On February 4th of this year, he pled guilty. 25 Just this past Monday, he was sentenced. It 1 was, actually, one year, plus five years of a 2 stringent probation, where he'll have an ignition 3 interlock. 4 Now that he's sentenced, he'll have other 5 stringent conditions placed upon him. 6 But no matter how stringent the sentence, no 7 amount of time, no amount of punishment, will make 8 it okay for the young schoolchildren. 9 The criminal justice system is not equipped 10 to take away the trauma and the nightmares inflicted 11 upon a child victim; inflicted upon parents, who 12 trust that their parents [sic] will be protected 13 when they leave home, and they're going to see them 14 when they get home from work. 15 An ignition interlock would have prevented 16 the entire incident from occurring. 17 This technology, we have it now, would have 18 prevented drunk Mr. Flowers from ever starting the 19 school bus. 20 The technology would have prevented that 21 van -- excuse me, that bus from launching into that 22 home like a missile. 23 The ignition interlock would have saved those 24 parents and children from the nightmares of having a 25 violent crime inflicted upon them. 1 We must act, and we must act now. 2 Nassau County District Attorney Kathleen Rice 3 stood with Senator Fuschillo when he proposed this 4 commonsense legislation back in October of 2012. 5 The District Attorney fully supports passage 6 of this legislation. 7 She encourages this Committee to bring the 8 bill to a floor for a full vote by the New York 9 State Senate. 10 How often can we say that a law will 11 completely eradicate a particular crime? 12 Placing ignition interlocks into school buses 13 will prevent a drunk driver from ever getting behind 14 the wheel of a school bus again. 15 It will never happen again. 16 This is truly a public-safety victory, and 17 justice for the parents and children who have 18 already been put in harm's way. 19 That is not the say there's not more to be 20 done. Issues related to drugged driving, and steps 21 that could be taken in the commercial vehicle 22 industry, also need of be addressed. 23 We will once again look to the proactive 24 leadership of Senator Fuschillo, of this Committee. 25 We are grateful to them, and all the partners 1 in public safety, for the efforts that keep our 2 citizens safe. 3 Thank you for this time. 4 Thank you, Senator Fuschillo; 5 Thank you, members of the Committee; 6 And thank you to the members of the public 7 who have joined us here today. 8 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: And I thank you very much 9 for your testimony, and the work of Nassau District 10 Attorney, and your office, and Maureen McCormick, in 11 combating drunk driving in Nassau County. 12 You're certainly the model for the entire 13 state of New York, and I appreciate your testimony 14 in support, and you being here today. 15 Assemblyman McDonough? 16 Assemblyman Dave McDonough. 17 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: I would just like to 18 add, I'm the ranking member of the Assembly 19 Transportation Committee, and I applaud 20 Senator Fuschillo for what he's done already with 21 Leandra's Law, and all of that. 22 But what you just testified to, and what we 23 heard from young Christian's mother, and all of 24 that, proves that there is a need for this, because 25 most laws are passed as punishment after the fact. 1 This is something that can prevent the fact 2 that some children could be seriously injured, or 3 even killed, in such an accident. 4 And thank you for what you do, and this is a 5 very, very serious issue. 6 And I intend to do all I can in the Assembly, 7 to help on the bills that are put forward. 8 BRENDAN AHERN: Thank you, Assemblyman. 9 ASSEMBLYMAN MONTESANO: And just, for a piece 10 of information, I've introduced the Senator's bill 11 in the Assembly, so it is pending there now, also 12 making its way through committee. 13 And we will, myself, and 14 Assemblyman McDonough, who's on Transportation, will 15 do our best to get it through that committee 16 process, and to the floor for a vote also. 17 Thank you. 18 BRENDAN AHERN: Thank you, Assemblyman. 19 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Brendan, thanks for 20 being here. 21 BRENDAN AHERN: Thank you, Senator. 22 SENATOR MARCELLINO: And thank Kathleen for 23 her public service. It's well honored, and well 24 respected. 25 What is the current law regarding bus drivers 1 and drunk driving? 2 Are they allowed -- for example, is a bus 3 driver allowed to -- forgetting the company's 4 policies, is it -- is the bus driver allowed to have 5 a drink? 6 A glass of beer at lunch, for example? 7 BRENDAN AHERN: The bus drivers are going to 8 fall under more prohibitive statutes right now; 9 commercial-driving statutes. 10 Commercial drivers have a more restrictive 11 DWI limits. 12 Where you typically think of a .08 as being 13 the limit for a misdemeanor DWI for your average 14 driver, the commercial-driving statutes are actually 15 below that, with a Commercial DWI I and 16 Commercial DWI II, that start, I believe, as low 17 as -- 18 SENATOR MARCELLINO: It's .04. 19 BRENDAN AHERN: -- a .04. 20 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Senator Fuschillo just 21 whispered it in my ear. 22 BRENDAN AHERN: I appreciate that, 23 Senator Fuschillo. 24 SENATOR MARCELLINO: He's trying to make me 25 look good. 1 BRENDAN AHERN: We don't get that many 2 commercial drivers, but -- 3 SENATOR MARCELLINO: He's trying to make me 4 look good. That's okay. 5 BRENDAN AHERN: The obvious issue, and the 6 reason that you have the more restrictive commercial 7 statutes -- 8 And we've seen it, not just in school bus 9 drivers. We have a recent case out in 10 Locust Valley, with an alleged drugged driver 11 driving a cement truck. 12 -- is that the regulation is there, because 13 when these types of vehicles crash, you're talking 14 about mass casualties. You're talking about, 15 almost -- it's almost fortunate that there's not 16 going to be a death. 17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I don't disagree with 18 you that -- of the seriousness of the situation. 19 I just was curious. 20 So a driver -- a commercial driver is 21 allowed -- you know, .04 is still, maybe a drink, 22 depending upon the body weight, and so forth. 23 They are allowed to imbibe alcohol? 24 BRENDAN AHERN: By the current statute, yes. 25 I think -- you know, but I think, when you 1 look to -- if you looked across the room, back to, 2 you know, the parent that just spoke, I think 3 there's an expectation that every bus driver ought 4 to get behind the wheel at a zero-zero. 5 SENATOR MARCELLINO: So if I put in 6 legislation, and Senator Fuschillo co-crimes with me 7 on this one, and so does Senator Zeldin, and our 8 friends in the Assembly carry it, and Senator Dilan 9 comes, and they say, "Absolutely zero tolerance for 10 alcohol in commercial driving," that would be 11 supported by your association? 12 BRENDAN AHERN: It would be supported, but 13 the one thing you have to keep in mind, and I think 14 that what these cases speak to, is that, and, 15 sometimes, you know, you have a guy at .23 out on 16 the Long Island Expressway, that statute is not 17 enough, because that guy has a major problem. 18 To get yourself up to a .23, you're a raging 19 drinker; and, so, the statute isn't enough. 20 What happens with this ignition interlock, is 21 you're going to have something in place that's gonna 22 prevent that guy from ever starting the ignition. 23 And I think that's the critical measure here, 24 is, where the statute sometimes will be violated by 25 someone who is intent on doing it, the ignition 1 interlock doesn't let them. 2 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you. 3 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Senator Zeldin? 4 SENATOR ZELDIN: Thank you, Brendan, for 5 being here as well. 6 BRENDAN AHERN: Thank you, Senator. Thank 7 you. 8 SENATOR ZELDIN: My stepmother, Carol, is 9 actually a retired, out of the DWI unit for the 10 probation department. And she has -- you know, my 11 whole life, she dedicated her life to public 12 service, with regards to this particular issue. 13 As I listened to the last speaker, I think of 14 my own daughters who were born prematurely, and, I 15 think: What would I would be feeling if those were 16 my daughters in that school bus? 17 And I also believe that the legislation can 18 work as a deterrent. 19 I come here with an open mind, because I also 20 have concerns. I see that there's a possibility 21 that the legislation can impact every driver. 22 Every single driver; not just the one driver 23 on the Long Island Expressway who has a .23 percent, 24 but the other almost 100 percent of drivers who do 25 the right thing. 1 BRENDAN AHERN: Sure. 2 SENATOR ZELDIN: I'm concerned by the cost as 3 well, but, first and foremost, I'm concerned by just 4 how -- you know, how broad it is. 5 But I do agree that, you know, it's a 6 deterrent, so I feel conflicted, and I definitely 7 come here open-minded. 8 With the situation with the driver on the 9 Long Island Expressway, with the .23 percent, or, 10 the driver in this particular crash, after the 11 accidents, what have we learned as far as, you know, 12 their history; signs that might have allowed us to 13 identify, before the accident, that they might have 14 a drinking problem, a past history? 15 Because I think, as far as coming up with 16 solutions, part of it is just identifying who 17 shouldn't be behind the wheel before the accidents 18 happen. 19 So I'm just kind of curious, if you have any 20 additional information on these defendants, and 21 their past history? 22 BRENDAN AHERN: With respect to the driver on 23 the LIE, I can't speak to his history. Because of 24 the Suffolk County case, I wasn't involved, in any 25 meaningful way, in that investigation. 1 But with respect to Mr. Flowers, as I 2 mentioned, this is an individual, he passed every 3 pre-employment screening, that includes alcohol and 4 drug screening, a DMV check, a background check. 5 One real alarming bit of information I 6 learned from a separate case, I mentioned that an 7 alleged drugged driver in a cement truck, we're 8 still talking about commercial vehicles, is that 9 there is a tremendous bit of regulation and 10 investigation into these people who are getting 11 behind the wheel of commercial vehicles; however, 12 it's inadequate. 13 The "alleged driver in the cement truck" case 14 had a history of -- a rampant history of offenses 15 involving crack cocaine; a past DWI, involving 16 drugs. And his employer didn't know, and they were 17 completely within the bounds of the federal 18 guidelines that mandates investigation into these 19 drivers. 20 With respect to Mr. Flowers, I would expect 21 that he passed all these screenings. And when 22 you're keeping up with the current legislation, and 23 the current need for those background checks, that's 24 sufficient. 25 It's difficult to monitor what a person's 1 doing at home. 2 Mr. Flowers, to go home every day, I would 3 imagine was drinking. I imagine he's a problem 4 drinker, for someone that's going to take it out 5 onto the road, out into their workday, out to drive 6 little children around, knowing full well. 7 And, you know, we mentioned these three or 8 four instances here that are before you. 9 These are anecdotal. These are all crashes. 10 And I think that we, as law enforcement, 11 everyone would be naive to believe that these are 12 the sole instances of people who are driving while 13 impaired by drugs or impaired by alcohol. This is 14 going on. 15 The only people that are getting caught are 16 the people that are actually crashing. 17 So, Mr. Flowers passed his background 18 check. He would have been someone that, I think, as 19 a mother and father -- 20 I'm a father. I also have two premature kids 21 at home, and I love them with all of my heart. 22 -- this horrifies me. 23 I think about watching my kids get onto the 24 school bus in a couple of years, and not really 25 knowing. 1 But you think about an ignition interlock, 2 and that's one thing you know for sure, this guy is 3 not drinking. 4 SENATOR ZELDIN: Just my closing thought is, 5 you know, I'm definitely eager to get behind the 6 best possible solution. And I would agree that 7 losing one life is really too much. 8 BRENDAN AHERN: Sure. 9 SENATOR ZELDIN: I haven't yet been able to 10 overcome that hurdle, internally, of knowing, as we 11 have this hearing, just how many bus drivers all 12 across the state of New York right now are driving 13 their buses, and they're following all the rules. 14 And, I just don't know if we should be 15 requiring every single one of them to blow into an 16 ignition interlock device, but, I'm very 17 open-minded. 18 I look forward to getting behind the best 19 possible solution. I'm just struggling with that 20 particular dynamic of this. 21 BRENDAN AHERN: Sure. 22 ASSEMBLYMAN MONTESANO: You talked about the 23 background checks. And I also see in the 24 documentation that they're required to have annual 25 physicals. 1 First, in the background check that they take 2 when they become licensed and employed as a school 3 bus driver, is there any requirement in the current 4 law that they have to have repeat background checks 5 periodically through the course of a year? 6 Is the employer required to run their DMV 7 abstract on a regular basis? 8 Do you know? 9 BRENDAN AHERN: Not that I'm aware of, but I 10 would say, I believe that the physical is actually a 11 biannual physical. It's a medical certification. 12 They have to appear in front of a doctor, and in 13 some regards, that's a really inadequate physical. 14 They're basically attesting themselves that 15 they don't have an issue. 16 I harken back to that -- I keep going back to 17 that Locust Valley cement-truck crash, but that was 18 an individual that is alleged to have been under the 19 prescription for heavy-duty narcotics for a 20 significant period of time. And that was not 21 attested to on his medical questionnaire that went 22 before the DMV, that went before his employer. And 23 there's no check. 24 But I don't think that there's any issue, 25 that I know of, in terms of having to do repeat 1 background checks. 2 And when you speak to the DMV checks, the 3 other issue there, is that, typically, those DMV 4 checks are limited. They go back about three years. 5 There's a full -- there's a range of 6 different DMV checks that are available. The 7 shortest one is three years. 8 There's, of course, a lifetime DMV, and I 9 don't believe that that is available to employers 10 that are looking to hire commercial vehicles, 11 because that alleged drugged driver up in 12 Locust Valley had a pretty extensive criminal 13 history and a pretty extensive DMV history, that his 14 employer wasn't aware of, because they had 15 three years of information, and, really, that's not 16 enough. 17 ASSEMBLYMAN MONTESANO: So I guess it would 18 be logical then, also, in lieu -- in addition to 19 this legislation, is to consider maybe allowing the 20 employers to have access to the more lengthy DMV 21 abstracts for these commercial drivers' licenses, 22 and, also, maybe to change the scope and requirement 23 of the medical exam. 24 Would you agree? 25 BRENDAN AHERN: I think that would definitely 1 be a worthy consideration. 2 ASSEMBLYMAN MONTESANO: Thank you. 3 Thank you, Senator. 4 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: And thank you very much. 5 Just a couple of footnotes here: 6 Sweden and Finland currently require ignition 7 interlocks on all school buses and commercial 8 vehicles. 9 And we talked about a few recent incidents, 10 but, in January of this year, in Farmingdale, an 11 individual was driving a GMC Omnibus, with four 12 students, crashed into a parked car. No injuries, 13 but he's facing aggravated drunk-driving charges. 14 In Ronkonkoma, of last year, we talked about 15 a minibus, unoccupied; driver was drunk, with a BAC 16 nearly three times the legal limit, a half-empty 17 bottle of vodka in the vehicle, when he was stopped 18 on the LIE. And he just dropped off students from 19 middle school when he was pulled over. 20 We know about the Syosset incident, crash, 21 last year. 22 In another state, a school bus driver in 23 southeastern Minnesota, suspected of being under the 24 influence while driving kids to summer classes, was 25 arrested, charged with third-degree driving under 1 the influence. Authorities received the report: 2 Poor-driving conduct while children were on board, 3 heading to summer school. 4 In New Jersey, a New Jersey school bus driver 5 was arrested for DUI, after the children she was 6 taking home called the parents while they were on 7 bus, to complain about the driving. Nervous pupils 8 contacted the parents after the bus driver was 9 allegedly falling asleep behind the wheel and 10 swerving the bus while she was driving. The police 11 caught up with her, 46-year-old school bus driver. 12 Her BAC was found to be .25, more than three times 13 the legal limit. 14 In Florida, a Lee County school bus driver 15 was arrested, after deputies say she drove drunk to 16 work, where she was to get behind the wheel of a 17 bus. She's charged with driving under the 18 influence. She was weaving her personal vehicle in 19 and out. 20 In Alfred, New York, a school bus driver, 21 recorded on tape, reckless driving while 22 intoxicated. The students reported she was driving 23 70 miles an hour, and at one point, ran over a 24 mailbox, drove backwards down a hill. They 25 eventually escaped through the emergency exit, and 1 she was arrested. 2 Another case, in -- a former Alfred-Almond 3 school bus driver agreed to plead guilty to felony 4 driving while intoxicated, and as you said, 5 37 counts of third-degree reckless endangerment. 6 So there are many cases, unfortunately. And 7 I'm getting by the testimony, that the first line of 8 defense is the ignition interlock. 9 Whether they're are drunk or not, that school 10 bus won't start. 11 BRENDAN AHERN: Absolutely. It is the 12 fail-safe. 13 We can turn to all the parents in this state, 14 and say: You're never going to have a drunk driver 15 get behind the wheel again. 16 And that's meaningful. That's powerful. 17 There's no other real opportunities that we 18 get, that come along too often to stop a crime. 19 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: You know, as I mentioned 20 in my opening statement, there are many technologies 21 that are being tested right now -- 22 BRENDAN AHERN: Sure. 23 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: -- from car 24 manufacturers, whether it's, the steering wheel, 25 your perspiration, or the button that you push, in 1 some of the cars, to come on. 2 And that's going to happen. It may not 3 happen in my lifetime, but these cars are going to 4 be made with some sort of ignition interlock system 5 to prevent this. 6 BRENDAN AHERN: Absolutely. 7 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: You know, the first line 8 of defense, that if somebody has any alcohol in 9 them, they're not going to be able to start that 10 car. 11 Brendan, I really appreciate, again, the 12 support of your office, and the District Attorney, 13 and your testimony, and you being here today. 14 BRENDAN AHERN: Thank you very much, Senator. 15 Thank you members of the Committee. 16 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Peter Mannella, the 17 executive director of the New York Association for 18 Pupil Transportation. 19 Good morning, Peter. 20 PETER MANNELLA: Good morning, Senators. 21 I want to share this -- 22 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Just, your name and title 23 for the record. 24 PETER MANNELLA: I'm sorry. 25 Peter Mannella. 1 Peter Mannella, executive director for the 2 New York Association for Pupil Transportation. 3 Our members are individuals across the state 4 in school districts, private contractors, BOCES, 5 Head-Start programs, who are responsible, overall, 6 for the transportation of our children. 7 Many of our members also are school bus 8 contractors, many of whom are in the room today, and 9 we welcome them, along with several school 10 representatives. 11 We are, first, and foremost, a school 12 transportation industry -- 13 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: And the gentleman to your 14 left? 15 PETER MANNELLA: Oh, thank you, Senator. You 16 just saved my job. 17 Our association president, Richard Gallagher, 18 from Bay Shore School District here in 19 Suffolk County. 20 And my apologies to him. 21 And, thank you. 22 There goes my evaluation for the year. 23 We launch right in there. 24 We, as an industry, are safety-focused. It's 25 what we wake up with every morning. 1 Anyone who is responsible for children on 2 school buses, focuses, first, on their safety. 3 Right after that, on efficiency, and cost to the 4 taxpayers. 5 But, first, every day, on safety. 6 There is no one in this industry who is not 7 appalled by the pictures that I know you saw here, 8 and that have been across the newspapers, and we're 9 concerned about -- more than concerned about. 10 All of us have been parents, have families, 11 and understand the scariness of an episode like 12 Christian went through, and his family went through. 13 And there's nothing we can say to make that 14 better. 15 I will start, rather than burying the story, 16 with the fact that we do not support mandatory 17 installation of ignition interlock devices on school 18 buses. 19 That out on the table, our discussion goes 20 this way, and I'll go back to my statement. I just 21 wanted to get that up front so we're not questioning 22 where I'm coming from. 23 There are 50,000 licensed school bus drivers 24 in New York State. These women and men are fine, 25 hard-working, dedicated professionals who care for 1 their student riders. 2 As an example, the cement-truck incident you 3 were talking about, that school bus driver was not 4 intoxicated. That school bus driver cared enough 5 about his children, to swerve the bus in the 6 direction of where the truck was coming from, and 7 sacrificed his life to make sure that the impact 8 didn't affect more children. 9 That's the kind of people who drive our 10 school buses. They are not people who drink before 11 they go to work, or take drugs before they go to 12 work. 13 And I think it's important for us to state 14 that right at the top. We're not talking about a 15 preponderance. 16 The DA indicated they thread don't see a lot 17 of commercial drivers' licenses come before them, 18 and that's because, they're trained, more dedicated, 19 more focused on the job they have, because their 20 livelihood comes from being a good driver. And 21 they're not going to come to work drunk, as a rule. 22 Those three instances, or four instances, and 23 a couple upstate that we've had, over four and 24 five years, not all the time, horrified us, because 25 it made us ask: What's wrong? What happened here? 1 What happened here that we need to fix? 2 And the ignition interlocks was not the first 3 solution we came up with. 4 Our association took time, and I know the bus 5 contractors and others in the industry took time, to 6 look at: What is it we do currently? 7 And you should know that, currently, bus 8 drivers are backgrounded. It's a 24/7 process, in 9 answer to the question. 10 If they do something in their personal lives 11 or in their commercial-driver's lives, it shows up 12 for them. It shows up for us as employers, to know 13 someone got ticketed for speeding, got ticketed for 14 drunk driving. We know all those things, and action 15 can be taken against them because of that. 16 It's not a, one time, it never happens again. 17 Their physical: 18 They're given physical tests every two years. 19 And according to CD regulation, every year, 20 in fact, they go through a physical -- "operate" 21 medical physical, they have to undergo. 22 They are random tested. 23 And we can discuss that further, and later in 24 the testimony, but, they are given -- subject to 25 random tests, by federal Motor Carrier Safety Act, 1 administration regulations. Those are implemented 2 by supervisors and transportation operators across 3 the state. 4 They are subject to daily observation by 5 their supervisory staff, so that a manager, or 6 dispatcher, a fleet manager, who's operating that 7 bus operation, observes them, hands them the keys, 8 talks to them, the practices, to see: Are you 9 observing something that gives you reasonable cause 10 to think they shouldn't be driving the bus? 11 It's a technique that we go through. 12 And those drivers, as I said, are subject to 13 24/7 monitoring by law enforcement and DMV. 14 We think, overall, the system has worked 15 well. 16 The nightmares and horrors that you just saw 17 in those pictures, and what we went through for 18 those children and the families involved in those, 19 are exceptions, significant exceptions, to the rule. 20 But we had asked ourselves: Are there ways 21 that the system particularly doesn't work? 22 In our full statement, we give about 23 twelve different recommendations. I want to focus 24 on just three of those right now. 25 Currently, federal law does not require that 1 CDLC licensed school bus drivers, those who are 2 driving smaller buses, be subjected to those random 3 drug and alcohol tests. 4 We recommend, and would endorse, legislation 5 that would require those drivers, meaning all bus 6 drivers would be tested, thereby exceeding federal 7 standards, and ensuring parents in New York that 8 there's a greater number of bus drivers who are 9 being tested each year. 10 In a survey we did, we found that about 11 65 percent of our members who responded already do 12 that, but we think that's a standard that should be 13 looked at in New York, and would require a legal 14 change. 15 Two: Currently, operators must draw from 16 10 percent of their -- according to FMCSA 17 regulation, a minimum of 10 percent to conduct their 18 random alcohol tests. 19 We would support a requirement that they draw 20 from 100 percent of their driver pool for testing. 21 This would increase the number of tests that they're 22 doing tenfold. 23 It would also increase for the drivers, the 24 risk, or the likelihood, that their name what be 25 drawn at any given time, and would serve as a 1 further deterrent to their alcohol use and drug use. 2 In this particular case, we're talking 3 particularly of alcohol use. 4 Statewide, the approaches used for daily 5 observation of school bus drivers varies, and is 6 inconsistent in its application from district to 7 district. 8 Greater definition and standardization of 9 such practices we think would be beneficial. 10 We would support a requirement that school 11 boards adopt clear and concise policies regarding 12 the drug and alcohol observation processes, testing 13 processes, and daily observation for school bus 14 drivers in their district, including, especially for 15 those who are allowed to park out the school buses 16 assigned to them, where the bus actually goes home 17 with the driver. 18 And we think, while it goes on, creates a 19 particularly vulnerable spot for some of our 20 districts and operators. 21 The results of drug and alcohol tests are 22 employer-specific. A potential employer is unaware 23 of any record of positive drug or alcohol tests when 24 a driver applicant appears before them for hiring. 25 We would support a requirement that any 1 positive drug or alcohol test results be recorded 2 directly to the Department of Motor Vehicle by the 3 testing agency, for the purpose of being recorded 4 permanently on the driver's abstract, so there's no 5 question, when the person shows up at a new 6 employer, that they had a problem in the past with 7 their drug tests. 8 In order to ensure that the supervisory 9 personnel and the school bus community are more 10 adequately prepared to carry out their 11 responsibilities in this area, we will work 12 aggressively with school boards and superintendents 13 to ensure their supervisory personnel across the 14 board in school districts have frequent and adequate 15 opportunities to receive FMCSA training and 16 observation, and reasonable suspicion. 17 As I said before, we do not support 18 Senator Maziarz and Assemblyman Montesano, and also, 19 there's -- Assemblyman Ryan has a similar bill, that 20 would require mandatory installation of the ignition 21 interlocks. 22 And we spell out in more detail, but our 23 issues go to: 24 The cost of the devices, in the first 25 instance, The operation and maintenance of those 1 equipment. 2 Reliability of the devices, and the potential 3 for false-positives, and the risk of those devices 4 rendering a school bus inoperable in a remote 5 location, if there's a false-positive again, or it 6 malfunctions, and you've got children aboard a bus, 7 on a field trip or a sporting event, something 8 happening where the bus can't be started. 9 In addition, we add to that our concern 10 about, the children have to watch the bus driver at 11 the beginning of a run. Because that bus is not 12 running until the kids are on it and they're ready 13 to go, or idling while it's in the state, that the 14 children have to watch that happen. 15 Some would think that gives the children a 16 sense of reassurance. 17 I'm not so sure of that; and neither are we, 18 as an association. 19 And we don't want the children to say: Oh, 20 wow, our bus driver may be drunk. 21 Is that what we want to instill in them when 22 they get on the bus? 23 50,000 bus drivers do this job every day, and 24 99.9999 percent of them are not drunk. And we don't 25 want to necessarily have the children have to 1 suspect that the driver's drunk every time they get 2 on the bus. It's a very negative signal to send. 3 On the equipment, just a number, that we did 4 some quick calculation: 5 If you assume 50,000 bus drivers in the 6 state, working 180 school days -- 7 And just the school days: to school, drop the 8 kids off; go back, get back on the bus and go pick 9 them up at the end of the day. 10 -- you're talking between 50 and 70 million 11 times a day -- or, times a year that device will 12 have to be used. 13 Wear and tear alone -- and I just throw that 14 out there -- the wear and tear alone means that 15 we're going to have issues with the devices on the 16 bus. 17 And I'm sure we'll hear from that industry 18 about the devices, but that's a question we need to 19 ask ourselves. 20 Just the operation -- keeping the equipment, 21 keeping the tubes, and the things that have to be 22 blown into -- I think we have to ask ourselves the 23 question: Is that how we want to be operating the 24 buses? 25 There is a significant preventive system in 1 place. We've recommended some ways that that could 2 be improved. 3 Mechanically: That we can change laws, Change 4 the requirements on districts, have school boards 5 and parents more involved in that process, and make 6 the system tighter than it is today. 7 And, obviously, doing something, because 8 we've not had -- I could name the four here, one 9 upstate, and the one in Almond that we talked about, 10 six years ago -- that are the pieces that have 11 caught our attention, again, as the DA said, because 12 they got caught. 13 We'd like to think that that's not happening. 14 That system is working. 15 If we had more drunk school bus drivers, 16 you'd hear more about it. 17 It's not happening as frequently as you 18 think. 19 The onslaught of four in a short period of 20 time here on Long Island, certainly got attention, 21 and at a minimum, it should make us go back and ask 22 these kinds of questions that we asked. 23 A last thought that I would offer you is, 24 we're starting next week with the State Education 25 Department on a Safe Schools Task Force they've 1 reinstated after the shootings at Newtown, and the 2 shooting of a driver in Alabama. 3 We're going to bring it, to that table, the 4 notion that school buses are not included in SAVE 5 legislation. 6 A couple of you were here when that law was 7 enacted back in 2000. School buses and 8 transportation facilities and bus stops are not 9 included in that legislation. 10 And we believe that there should be a 11 comprehensive planning approach to school bus 12 safety, the same way there is about the buildings. 13 And in that discussion, we will raise: How 14 do we ensure the safety -- the safe conditions of a 15 school bus driver who's going to board that bus? 16 And, how do we approach that, and make it 17 part of an overall school-safety plan? -- which 18 we've never done before. 19 So, again, one more piece we would add to the 20 discussion, is that: This conversation be part of 21 the overall school-safety program; all of those 22 steps, hopefully, avoiding the need to have ignition 23 interlocks; 24 And, fully understanding the emotions and 25 sentiments of having parents who have had to see 1 their kids' bus go hit a tree, or go into a 2 building, is not something we want to see, but we 3 think there are other alternatives between here and 4 an interlock. 5 And I thank you, on behalf of our president, 6 and our association, and all of the school bus 7 industry. 8 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: I'm glad you mentioned 9 him this time. 10 [Laughter.] 11 PETER MANNELLA: I owe you big time, Senator. 12 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Assemblyman McDonough? 13 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: Yes. 14 Thank you, Peter, for your testimony. 15 I had a couple of questions, based on what 16 you have here. 17 Number One: The practice of daily 18 observation you're talking about, is that somebody 19 who would be at the school, or at the bus terminal 20 when he picks up the bus in the morning? 21 PETER MANNELLA: Yeah -- 22 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: By the way, does he 23 pick up the bus in morning and keep it during the 24 day, or does he keep it overnight as well? 25 PETER MANNELLA: There may be some variations 1 to that, but, generally, the school bus driver picks 2 up the bus at the school, or, if it's a contract 3 operation, they're picking it up at their facility, 4 their terminal, and they will speak to that. 5 They pick it up, they get the keys. Part of 6 that process is, they, you know, say "Hello," 7 register, sign in, punch the clock, whatever the 8 process is there. And there's interaction with the 9 head mechanic, or it might be with the head bus 10 driver in some places. Like, a fleet manager, or 11 the transportation supervisor, may be involved. 12 Depending on the level or depth of personnel, 13 if it's a small district and they've got, you know, 14 the one person in the garage, that's going to be 15 less intensive than if you've got a staff of people 16 who are specifically assigned to do that task. 17 But it's generally done in the morning, and 18 then they bring the bus back. 19 Again, that's going to vary district to 20 district, but your template is: Bring the bus back 21 after your morning runs. It sits, waits, cleaned 22 up, goes out for the next run. 23 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: You're saying, 24 preferably -- in your testimony, your recommendation 25 was: Preferably, prior to the commencement of each 1 run. 2 PETER MANNELLA: Yeah. 3 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: "Each run" being, the 4 morning run, and then the afternoon run, so 5 someone's going to have to be there to observe them? 6 What would that observation include, besides 7 just personal, visual conversation? 8 PETER MANNELLA: Conversation. You can smell 9 alcohol. You can tell by the demeanor of the 10 person. 11 Again, Rich is trained in this more than I 12 would be. 13 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: What about 14 breathalyzers; are they difficult to -- I know 15 police officers can use breathalyzers at a scene, 16 can't they? 17 PETER MANNELLA: Yes. 18 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: That's something they 19 can do? 20 PETER MANNELLA: Yeah. 21 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: What about 22 breathalyzers? 23 PETER MANNELLA: Breathalyzers at that moment 24 of observation? 25 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: Yes. 1 I mean -- you know, we know that .08 is the 2 law, but some people can be observed to look like 3 they're okay even if they're above that limit. 4 And your observation includes just a 5 conversation and a visual observance of the person, 6 with no type of testing? 7 PETER MANNELLA: No testing. No. 8 RICHARD GALLAGHER: No. 9 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: Okay. 10 PETER MANNELLA: And Rich just said, if you 11 have reasonable suspicion, anything they've done or 12 said or behavior, you can send them for a drug test 13 immediately. And if that bears out, they wouldn't 14 go out on the road. 15 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: And the random tests 16 that you're talking about, the ones that, I guess, 17 are more extensive, urinalysis and blood testing, 18 and things like that, how often are they performed 19 now, on an average? 20 PETER MANNELLA: Those are, FMCSA rules 21 require a minimum of 10 percent of your fleet, so -- 22 of your drivers. 23 So if you've got 100 drivers, over the course 24 of the year, you need to do 10 tests. 25 And our reaction to that was, we may be 1 meeting those requirements, but that's not a very 2 deep test. 3 And we're recommending that we increase that, 4 so, over course of year, you have to test at least 5 100 times. 6 If you've got 100 drivers, you should be 7 doing 100 tests. 8 And there's a cost attached to that, but 9 that's putting each driver knowing that, at any 10 point, they could be tested. There would be an 11 increased risk of them being tested. 12 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: Okay. Getting back 13 to the observation that you say, at the beginning of 14 each run, who's conducting that? 15 A school official, or somebody from the 16 bus -- school bus company? 17 PETER MANNELLA: School official, or -- well, 18 it's the employer. The employer has the 19 responsibility for that, in most cases -- 20 RICHARD GALLAGHER: Carrier. 21 PETER MANNELLA: Carrier. I'm sorry. 22 The carrier does. 23 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: Pardon me? The 24 carrier? 25 PETER MANNELLA: The carrier does, whether 1 it's a district or a contractor. 2 I'm not sure whether some contract school 3 relationships, if the school is involved in that, 4 but at a minimum, you're looking at the carrier; 5 meaning, the operator, or the school district -- the 6 contractor for the school district, and an official 7 from that organization observing the driver. 8 Whether it's a manager, dispatcher, head bus 9 driver, they pick the person, someone designated to 10 do that, but they have to be trained. 11 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: Thank you. 12 Am I correct in assuming, from what you say, 13 that at every school, both morning -- or, at the 14 yard in the morning, picking up the buses, and then 15 at the schools, when they come back for the pickup 16 during the day, that there's got to be a person at 17 every school who will personally observe each of the 18 drivers as they come in to pick up students, to take 19 them home? 20 PETER MANNELLA: I would say the ideal world, 21 yes. I can't tell you that that happens 100 percent 22 of the time. 23 And that's where we raised the concern about 24 the school district, at a minimum, should have a 25 policy, saying, That's how we're doing to do it. 1 But that also means committing to the cost. 2 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: But it means -- but 3 you're also saying, it becomes the school district's 4 responsibility more so than the carrier? 5 PETER MANNELLA: Yes, again, in their 6 relationship with the carrier. 7 The carrier has the responsibility, under the 8 federal law. 9 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: Okay. And on the -- 10 one final question: 11 On the daily observation, if somebody is 12 observed that they should not be behind the wheel, 13 then that driver is replaced immediately, and 14 there's someone there to take those students home? 15 PETER MANNELLA: That's the responsibility of 16 the supervisor, correct. 17 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: Okay. 18 Thank you very much. 19 PETER MANNELLA: They are required by law to 20 do that. 21 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: Thank you.very much, 22 Peter. 23 Thank you. 24 ASSEMBLYMAN MONTESANO: Mr. Mannella, I 25 just wanted to ask you a couple of questions, if I 1 may. 2 When we talk about these break observations, 3 I mean, my experience have been, previously, sitting 4 on a school board as the school board president, and 5 we ran our own transportation department, so I know, 6 when a school district operates its own 7 transportation, it has more control over what goes 8 on. 9 But most of the school districts, especially 10 here on Long Island, contract for bus services. And 11 I know, you know, throughout the state, and the city 12 of New York, we have some of the largest school bus 13 companies around. 14 So I would ask, I know on many of the 15 occasions, these school buses do not go back to the 16 yard, especially the small ones. The minibuses 17 doesn't go back to the yards after their runs. 18 They're in the -- they stay in the possession of 19 driver, and the driver has his downtime in between 20 the run. And sometimes, when they go on field 21 trips, they have that downtime and the driver has 22 hours to kill. 23 How do we address the observation after that 24 downtime, that, the driver didn't have alcoholic 25 beverage during their lunchtime, or their downtime 1 on a field trip? 2 PETER MANNELLA: Couple of places I want to 3 respond there. 4 One, I don't believe -- I would say, it's not 5 an issue specific to contract operations who have 6 them out doing other things. School districts 7 across the state have bus drivers who are out doing 8 field trips, running the BOCES, and they will not go 9 back. 10 So let's not make that a "contractor versus 11 district" difference. 12 The question of them not coming back applies 13 for field trips, and BOCES, and employment-type 14 runs, as well as, some districts, I know upstate a 15 lot, will keep the buses overnight with the bus 16 driver. 17 We have found that particularly problematic. 18 As an organization, we have not recommended a 19 statutory ban of that happening, but we have raised 20 for our members that you're putting yourself at 21 significant risk. 22 I know you've got a representative from the 23 school boards here, and we've talked to counsel at 24 school boards about, What liability-insurance risk 25 does that present to an operator, whether it's 1 school or contractor, if a bus driver has the bus 2 home? 3 And if you're looking at things that happened 4 in Boston, and other places like that, what happens 5 to a vehicle if somebody tampers with it? 6 So, to me, and us, it raises lots of issues. 7 I'm not sure we have any easy responses to it. 8 So I put that out there, that we do not have 9 an easy response. 10 It is happening. Bus drivers are out on 11 field trips, and they stop and have lunch somewhere, 12 before they go to their next trip, and we're not 13 seeing them again. 14 I can't tell you we have an easy answer to 15 that. 16 And maybe some of the folks behind us will, 17 or maybe Rich has one, but there's not an easy 18 answer to, What happens when that bus isn't coming 19 back to garage? 20 You sent them out, you've done your due 21 diligence to do the observation of them before you 22 handed them the keys. And then there's some level 23 of trust that they're not going to betray that trust 24 when they're out on the read. 25 ASSEMBLYMAN MONTESANO: Well, that's the 1 point that I'm trying to make. 2 I heard your testimony, and, you know, you 3 sound convincing that these people are monitored 4 during the course of a day, when, in reality, 5 they're really not monitored through the course of a 6 day. 7 They may pass muster at 6:30 in the morning, 8 when they're rolling the bus out, and then after 9 that, really, nobody sees them. You know, there's 10 no monitoring. 11 So, my next thing would be, you talked -- 12 PETER MANNELLA: And just -- Assemblyman, 13 there are also -- they're also not -- there's law 14 and regulation that say that they should not have 15 engaged in any drinking four hours prior to their 16 service. 17 It's not a preventive piece, but were 18 something to happen and we find that they've done 19 that, they just cost themselves their jobs. 20 ASSEMBLYMAN MONTESANO: Right. And -- 21 PETER MANNELLA: It's not just, you get a 22 slap on the wrist and a ticket, and you're done. 23 ASSEMBLYMAN MONTESANO: And that's 24 understandable, but we're trying to prevent for the 25 ones that you don't catch. 1 We understand what happens, and we know your 2 industry is very severe when they have an employee 3 who strays from what the rules are. 4 But we're trying to prevent it from the one, 5 that he does this, or she does this, and gets into 6 the bus. 7 My other thing is the 24/7 background, you 8 indicated. 9 Could you tell me what that's about, 10 "24/7 background"? 11 PETER MANNELLA: And I may lean on Rich more 12 on the details there, but, generally, a person who 13 is a commercial driver/school bus driver, once they 14 sign on for that, anything that they do on the road, 15 any traffic violations, or other violations -- yeah, 16 criminal violations, are flagged in the system. 17 DCJS prompts a note to DMV and to the 18 operators, that we know such-and-such got picked up 19 for, you know, prostitution. 20 Pick the crime. 21 There are a list of crimes in Section 509-cc 22 of the Vehicle and Traffic Law, for which a person, 23 once convicted, cannot drive a bus. 24 So those are a particular flag for, they just 25 got convicted of that. 1 I'm not sure it's an arrest. It's a 2 conviction. 3 It's a conviction of a crime, that they 4 cannot any longer drive a bus if they've done those 5 things. 6 So -- but that's constant. 7 ASSEMBLYMAN MONTESANO: And just let me ask 8 you one last question, if I may. 9 I know about the physical-agility tests they 10 take. You know, practical applications on the bus. 11 But when we talk about the biannual medical, 12 could you tell us what that consists of, or what the 13 physicians are supposed to look for? Or is it 14 really a self-test of them filling out a form? 15 PETER MANNELLA: Did you see a subtle turn of 16 the mic to the president? 17 ASSEMBLYMAN MONTESANO: Yeah. 18 RICHARD GALLAGHER: When you go for a DOT 19 test, you have your heart checked; your height, 20 weight; your reaction time; your eyesight; your 21 hearing. 22 You know, they give you a good overall 23 physical of -- you know, they don't take a urine -- 24 they take a urine test, just to make sure you don't 25 have diabetes. They're checking your hearing. 1 It's -- and blood pressure. There are 2 blood-pressure limits, over which, you have to have 3 an additional follow-up check. 4 And, it's not every two years. Under SED 5 regulations, we have to have a physical every year. 6 Now, DMV and DOT require it every two years, 7 but with the SED requirement, it's an annual 8 requirement. 9 ASSEMBLYMAN MONTESANO: But there's nothing 10 in that physical, like, when they take the urine 11 test, that they're not screening for drugs, and 12 there's no blood test? Am I correct? 13 RICHARD GALLAGHER: There are no blood tests, 14 and they're not screening for drugs. 15 The drug and alcohol fall under the federal 16 requirements. 17 ASSEMBLYMAN MONTESANO: All right. 18 Thank you, Senator. 19 PETER MANNELLA: That is all federal, which 20 the state could exceed. We can open that 21 discussion. 22 RICHARD GALLAGHER: This is the follow-up: 23 You were asking, who else would see the people once 24 they come back from the field trip? 25 Many operations, they have what we call 1 "road supervisors," which are out there at the 2 schools when they're picking up children, or, out 3 driving around, checking on their buses. 4 So, they would also pick up whether the 5 driver is doing anything wrong. 6 ASSEMBLYMAN MONTESANO: Thank you, Senator. 7 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Yeah, let me just ask you 8 a few questions, based on some questions that 9 Senator Marcellino had asked, but you also mentioned 10 509-cc of the VTL law, which classifies certain 11 disqualifications: Permanent disqualifications; 12 five-years' disqualification; one-year 13 disqualification. 14 If somebody's convicted of drunk driving 15 right now, with a license to operate a school bus, 16 it's a five-year disqualification. 17 Would you favor permanent disqualification? 18 PETER MANNELLA: Yes. 19 RICHARD GALLAGHER: Yes. 20 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay, thank you. 21 Senator Marcellino brought up an issue 22 before: Commercial BAC, the legal limit is now .04. 23 RICHARD GALLAGHER: .04, and 4 hours after 24 the driver is reported. 25 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Would you favor zero 1 tolerance? 2 RICHARD GALLAGHER: "Zero tolerance," define? 3 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Zero BAC. 4 PETER MANNELLA: Zero? 5 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Right. 6 PETER MANNELLA: The parent in me says, 7 absolutely. 8 I think the answer would be yes. 9 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: You know -- 10 PETER MANNELLA: I mean, it's the same, you 11 don't want someone on a school bus who's been 12 drinking. 13 And it's is a tough -- it's a tough -- if 14 they've have been out -- you know, they had a 15 barbecue with the family on Sunday, and it shows up, 16 but, I think we have to tighten the screen, and make 17 this clear, "We're transporting our kids." 18 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Exactly, and that's why I 19 asked you the question. 20 I appreciate your testimony, because we're 21 looking at this with many different eyes open to 22 certain pieces of legislation. 23 There's legislation pending in the Senate, 24 there's legislation pending in the Assembly, that is 25 different in both houses. 1 There's an epidemic -- there's a problem in 2 New York State with drunk driving. We know that. 3 I offered .04, many, many -- .08, many, many 4 years ago, and I truly believed then, there would be 5 a significant reduction in arrests, convictions, and 6 fatalities in the state. 7 And it's kind of -- for vehicles, it's kind 8 of stayed the same, where more than 50,000 people, 9 every single year, are arrested. The level of 10 crashes seems to be steadily increasing. Fatalities 11 seem to be at a level where it just seems constant, 12 on an annual basis. 13 So, you know, we do everything that we can. 14 Senator Dilan, when the Chair of 15 Transportation, we worked closely together for 16 Leandra's Law, something I truly believe in. 17 There's an unintended loophole there, and 18 we're trying to close that now, and strengthen that. 19 And we're all appalled, when we read, and it 20 almost seems like daily in this state, when a parent 21 is arrested with a child in the car. 22 We're appalled at that. We're, like, How 23 could they be, you know, so irresponsible, that they 24 do something like that? 25 Many have problems, and we know that. 1 And we hope that, when they get arrested, as 2 part of their conviction, obviously, they get help. 3 It is appalling when -- and shocking, and I'm 4 sure to you as well -- 5 And, again, I appreciate the recommendations, 6 going forward, to strengthen transportation laws 7 here in the state. 8 -- but when one of your bus drivers, whether 9 they're yours or not, throughout the state, gets 10 arrested, and they're drunk, and they're driving -- 11 And you heard Miss Escudero, and her son, 12 Christian, and what they had gone through. 13 -- we're trying to be proactive. 14 And we don't want to be reactive, to the 15 sense that, when there's, God forbid, a tragedy, 16 when there's a fatality, as a result of a crash. 17 So, I'm not really asking for a response, 18 but, in listening to you about, you know, 19 50,000 individuals drive a bus every single day, I 20 almost get the sense that you may feel it's 21 offensive for them to have to blow into an ignition 22 interlock system. 23 Because, on my end, as the head of 24 Transportation, and as a parent of three children as 25 well, I say, What's the big deal? 1 You know, What's the big deal? 2 Because, someday, every bus will have -- be 3 manufactured with it, because some manufacturer is 4 going to do it on their own. 5 You know that. 6 Every day, someday in our lifetime, and, 7 again, maybe not in our lifetime, a car will be 8 manufactured with this device. 9 And, you know, it may lower insurance costs, 10 it may be such a good thing. 11 But the bottom line is, it will save lives. 12 It will prevent that individual from getting in that 13 car, if they have entry detection of alcohol. 14 So I think it's something that your 15 association should take a serious second look at, as 16 we proceed with this issue, because it's an 17 important issue. 18 And the last thing you want, and the last 19 thing we want as legislators, and as parents, and 20 residents of the state, is to have to deal with the 21 issue of fatalities because of a drunk bus driver. 22 You know, we deal with it every single day on 23 the roads with individuals who drive cars. 24 And, Peter, I have to tell you, we do 25 everything we can, on an ongoing basis, members of 1 this panel, and other members in the Legislature, in 2 both houses, to continually strengthen the 3 anti-drunk-driving laws in this state. 4 And, you know, we're -- it's unfortunate 5 we're here today, looking at commercial, looking at 6 school bus drivers as well. 7 So, again, I thank you for your testimony. 8 PETER MANNELLA: You didn't ask for an 9 answer, and I spent the whole trip down here, hoping 10 you wouldn't ask that question. 11 And you didn't ask the question, but I want 12 to respond this way: We were horrified. 13 I learned -- and I don't drive a bus, for 14 which you should all be fortunate -- thankful, but 15 what I've learned in this industry, is that when 16 something happens that involves a child on a bus, 17 the industry feels it all the way through. 18 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Right. 19 PETER MANNELLA: There's an accident, a child 20 gets hurt, a child gets left on a bus -- all those 21 things that happen, that are rare, but, you'll note, 22 it hits the press. 23 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Right. 24 PETER MANNELLA: And I did point to the 25 50,000 people who drive buses. 1 To me, they're are heroes. 2 They get up every day, on a part-time basis, 3 and they go to work, and they take our kids to 4 school. And they do a magnificent job. 5 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: The most precious cargo 6 is transported every single day in this state. 7 PETER MANNELLA: Every day. 8 And it's miraculous to me how we do it. 9 So our institutional reaction, and that's 10 what you have first -- no. 11 The first reaction was, What the heck? 12 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Right. 13 PETER MANNELLA: I mean, we had three, 14 back-to-back. 15 Rich and I were at a national conference, and 16 we got a call, "There's been another DWI on 17 Long Island." 18 And your heart sinks, because these people 19 work hard, tirelessly, every day. 20 You've been on a school board. You know how 21 the transportation community works: early morning, 22 late night, to get the kids to school. 23 So when something like that happens, your 24 heart sinks, and then you step back, and say: Okay, 25 now what? 1 And we asked ourselves some of the questions. 2 And our first instinct is, to try to avoid 3 the ignition interlock. 4 Again, not because it's offensive, but we 5 think there's other ways to get at the problem. 6 Will it -- you know, two years from now, we 7 may have a different conversation. 8 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Right. 9 PETER MANNELLA: Maybe. 10 If we have another DWI, I'll go hide, because 11 it's one of those you just don't want. And we all 12 know how this works. 13 If something happens, we're all going have 14 another question, but, for now, Are there things we 15 can do in current structure, to tighten it up, 16 ratchet it down? 17 I think we've created more awareness out in 18 the field. We've got transportation professionals 19 talking to their drivers differently about this 20 problem than they did six months ago. 21 Sometimes you sit back on your heels. 22 I think the folks are off their heels now, 23 and moving forward. 24 So, thank you for your comments. 25 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Just to follow up with 1 some of the points that Senator Fuschillo mentioned, 2 especially with respect to, ultimately, a company 3 will purchase, or will produce, a vehicle that is -- 4 that has built-in devices. 5 You see the ads on TV for cars now: The car 6 stops itself. The car knows when you're in danger. 7 The car pulls up to a -- and prevents you from 8 hitting that little girl with the volleyball that 9 just rolled out in front of it. 10 I mean, the cars are thinking faster than we 11 think, and the manufacturing of these vehicles is 12 coming on, because people want to be safe in their 13 cars. 14 What's driving it? In my opinion, is the 15 insurance companies, who don't want to keep paying 16 out on the claims. 17 And I would gather that that's going to 18 increase the creation, or speed up the creation, of 19 a vehicle that is supersafe, that has the devices 20 already built into it, either handgrips, or test 21 your sweat, or whatever it is. 22 I don't want to forget drugs because they may 23 not be testable in the same way, because the impact 24 is there. 25 I used to run day camp with Federated Wives, 1 out of Brooklyn, and we had a policy. This goes 2 back a number of years. 3 But we had a policy: The drivers couldn't 4 drink, clearly. They couldn't have lunch in a place 5 that served alcohol. Absolutely forbidden. 6 If we found someone -- and we checked -- if 7 we found someone walking out of a bar, whether they 8 had a drink or not, maybe they just went in for a 9 sandwich, they were gone. We didn't have them back. 10 We would not let them drive our kids anymore. 11 Are you aware of any standing policies on 12 school boards, and other companies that use your 13 buses that -- are there similar policies out there? 14 PETER MANNELLA: I couldn't attest 15 specifically, but I would -- my answer would be, I'm 16 sure there are. 17 And I think you may have some comments from 18 some of the contractors behind us, from the 19 school-board representatives here. 20 I can't answer that, Senator Marcellino. 21 It's a question I'll ask when I leave here, 22 though. 23 I think it's important that we have that 24 conversation. Yeah, zero tolerance. 25 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I do believe -- 1 PETER MANNELLA: And they can't -- Rich 2 pointed out, that if someone's observed drinking 3 within four hours of their tour, they can't get 4 behind the bus. 5 That's a role of the supervisor. 6 And what you just spelled out, if Rich sees 7 one of the drivers for his district leaving the bar 8 after lunch, they're not coming -- they're not going 9 to come on the bus and turn it on. 10 That's his responsibility. 11 If he doesn't know it, it's a different 12 story. But, how we catch that, how we apprehend 13 that, is the question. It's hard to do. 14 SENATOR MARCELLINO: So the companies that 15 are involved in your association, that work with 16 you, they would -- they have policies, internal 17 policies, that mandate their drivers behave in 18 certain ways? 19 PETER MANNELLA: Yes. 20 SENATOR MARCELLINO: And this is a 21 requirement of your association, or what? 22 PETER MANNELLA: It's not a requirement. 23 SENATOR MARCELLINO: It's just a voluntary 24 type of thing that they do, because they know it's 25 the smart thing to do? 1 PETER MANNELLA: Yes. 2 And I think the better companies, and the 3 better-managed school districts, are doing those 4 kind of things. They see these things coming 5 forward. 6 And, again, I think you'll hear some of that 7 the rest -- over the course of day. 8 But they're taking the proactive step, as 9 opposed to waiting for something to happen. 10 And that's very important. 11 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Someone mentioned 12 before, the cost of one of these devices. 13 What is the cost of one of these devices? 14 PETER MANNELLA: I've read different costs. 15 I would leave it to someone else to tell you 16 that, but I've been looking at, I think they're 17 $100 installation. And then there's a monthly fee 18 on one of the -- one or two of the companies that I 19 looked at, 50 to 60 dollars a month. 20 Again, I would have to bid that out. I don't 21 know. 22 SENATOR MARCELLINO: You mean the maintenance 23 charges? 24 PETER MANNELLA: Yes. 25 Yes, the monthly fees, yes. 1 Again, I think you're going to hear from 2 vendors on that, and I would lean to them for those 3 numbers. I'm not prepared to answer that. 4 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Okay. 5 All right, that's it. 6 Lee? 7 SENATOR ZELDIN: I listened to the comments 8 Senator Marcellino's making. You bring up a great 9 point, with regards to drug use. 10 And I was just thinking, you know, if you had 11 someone come up hot for marijuana, or cocaine, you 12 know, we're not going to give a urinalysis to every 13 driver once a week. 14 We have a couple of drivers, you know, 15 punching a couple of kids on a bus, that's terrible, 16 you know, but we're not going to build a cage around 17 where the driver drives, to make sure that they 18 don't have any physical contact with their kids. 19 And I just -- as I hear the testimony today, 20 I'm just very inclined to say that the current 21 proposal is just a little bit too broad. 22 But the example, with regards to the drugs, 23 is just a -- it's a great point, and that might 24 actually be more prevailing of a problem than 25 alcohol. 1 I mean, I don't know. You're -- I defer to 2 the experts to educate us, but, this doesn't even 3 deal with the drug problem, and some of other 4 problems that might be of issue. 5 But, I appreciate you being here as well. 6 PETER MANNELLA: Thank you. 7 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Senator Fuschillo is 8 occupied out there, but, I have no more questions. 9 Anybody else? 10 We're finished, then. 11 Thank you, Peter, and, thank you, Rich, for 12 your testimony. 13 Perhaps we can take a -- do you want to wait 14 for Chuck? It's up to you. 15 Okay. 16 So, Susan Bergtraum, vice president, and 17 Area 11 director, New York State School Boards 18 Association. 19 SUSAN BERGTRAUM: Good morning. 20 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Good morning. 21 SUSAN BERGTRAUM: We'll say hello to 22 Senator Fuschillo in his absence, but, we know he's 23 here. 24 Senator Marcellino, we'll say hello to you; 25 Senator Zeldin, Senator Dilan, 1 Assemblyman Montesano, and Assemblyman McDonough. 2 I thank you, first of all, for hearing our 3 testimony. 4 And I'm so conflicted about the issues that 5 come before all of us, because we're always in that 6 "Sophie's Choice." We're always in, there's a 7 reason to, there's a reason not to. 8 So, as we speak about this, and as questions 9 are asked, I'm already -- I see it from both sides. 10 However, speaking here as a representative 11 from New York School Boards Association, and for 12 districts across the state, we have real problems, 13 which I will go into as I start. 14 The New York State School Boards Association, 15 (NYSSBA) -- so when I say "NYSSBA," I'm referring to 16 us -- appreciates the Senate Transportation 17 Committee's concern for people's safety and 18 transportation, and for all of our children 19 throughout the state. 20 On behalf of the 650 member school districts 21 that comprise NYSSBA, we offer the following 22 perspective: 23 The safety of our children is of paramount 24 importance. 25 The establishment of safe learning 1 environments, including transportation to and from 2 schools, is critical to students' well-being and 3 academic achievements. 4 The additional costs of 5 ignition-interlock-device mandates on all school 6 buses, however, is of particular concern in this 7 current fiscal environment. And it's a choice we 8 don't have to make, but it's a choice and priorities 9 that we have to look at. 10 When it comes to students' safety, cost alone 11 is not the preeminent issue, but it is of concern to 12 schools that strive to incorporate the most 13 effective safety measures while operating within 14 limited resources. 15 School districts in New York State have 16 endured restricted budgets over the previous 17 four years. State school aid is still not at the 18 level of the 2008-2009 levels, and despite 19 significant restorations, which we do appreciate and 20 do acknowledge in the recently passed budget, the 21 gap-elimination adjustment remains at $1.6 billion. 22 School boards have to make difficult choices 23 in developing their budgets, utilizing reduced State 24 aid, and tax caps on local tax levies. 25 Decisions on cutting instructional programs, 1 and properly maintaining safe facilities and 2 grounds, among other considerations, vie for the 3 same restricted funds. 4 The cost effectiveness of each expenditure 5 must therefore be examined in relation to 6 alternative approaches and competing demands. 7 Once, again, that's all "Sophie's Choice." 8 Proven policies and practices already exist 9 regarding the management and supervision of school 10 bus drivers. They have demonstrated their 11 cost-effectiveness. 12 The best practice is utilized and constantly 13 implemented, as we strive to continually improve the 14 quality and safety of student transportation, 15 exists. 16 These measures, NYSSBA believes, are the most 17 effective way to maintain and improve our current 18 system. 19 These systems, protocols, training, and 20 supervision have, thankfully, resulted in extremely 21 low rates of alcohol and drug abuse among bus 22 drivers. 23 And, Senator Marcellino did ask for best 24 practices, which I think you've heard before, and we 25 will give as well. 1 So, given cuts to educational programs, the 2 need to install new safety equipment in schools, in 3 the light of Newtown, Connecticut, in that incident, 4 as well as newly required testing and standards 5 implementation, have school districts pleading for 6 no new unfunded mandates, and a request for 7 management flexibility needed to spend money in the 8 most efficient manner. 9 Local needs and capabilities are best 10 determined and addressed through the local 11 decision-making process, rather than one size fits 12 all, a mandate -- and mandates from the state and 13 federal government. 14 As a result, a State legislative effort to 15 pay for the costs of installing ignition 16 interlocking devices on buses would be welcomed 17 wholeheartedly. That would not be an unfunded 18 mandate. 19 However, while a requirement that all buses 20 have such devices would impose an additional burden 21 that would jeopardize other, and perhaps more 22 warranted safety measures, increased student and 23 staff safety is an area that school boards have, of 24 course, traditionally supported. 25 We've supported anti-bullying, and concussion 1 prevention and concussion treatments, to name a 2 recent few. 3 The benefits and uniform availability of 4 these safety measures was so important, that any 5 associated costs became a distant secondary 6 consideration. 7 The well-being of the student is of prime 8 importance. It always has been, it always should, 9 and will be. 10 The subject of this hearing, centered as it 11 is, on student-transportation safety, is presented 12 in light of a body of currently existing expertise 13 and capabilities; however, that belie the imposition 14 of an ignition interlock device in all school buses 15 as a pressing safety need. 16 No system is completely fail-safe. Equipment 17 alone cannot replace proper supervision, training, 18 and recruitment of school bus drivers. 19 The best and most effective methods of 20 ensuring that an impaired driver does not get behind 21 wheel, is the implementation of proper personnel 22 management, and adherence to and compliance with 23 current state and federal regulations. 24 Reliance on equipment may give some a false 25 sense of security. 1 Further, the interlock equipment cannot be 2 guaranteed to work, and a malfunction would deprive 3 the school district transportation system of a bus, 4 even though the driver's condition is not at issue. 5 There is no substitution for daily human 6 supervision, that is required by current regulation, 7 to observe any behaviors reasonably deduced as 8 influenced by alcohol and drugs. 9 School-transportation managers are required 10 to be trained in driver observation, as well as drug 11 and alcohol testing procedures. 12 As in a wide array of student issues, a very 13 few deplorable incidents often lead to a 14 far-reaching, perhaps overreaching, albeit sincere, 15 legislative response. 16 In recent years, the State wisely refrained 17 from imposing a mandated fire-suppression system on 18 every school bus, following a high-profile bus fire. 19 History has shown that such a response would 20 have been expensive and a superfluous action. There 21 have been no injuries sustained on subsequent school 22 bus fires. 23 Anomalies make for laws, particularly when 24 their cost of implementation directly competes with 25 other pressing safety needs. 1 Consider the current state and federal 2 requirements governing school bus drivers and the 3 use of drugs and alcohol, which is substantial. 4 In accordance with federal and state law, a 5 school bus driver must not drive a school bus if he 6 or she uses or is under the influence of alcohol or 7 a controlled substance within six hours or less 8 before duty. 9 And you've got this in the testimony, with 10 all the citations. And I am not the legal expert on 11 this, so I am giving you what was given to me: 12 They may not consume a drug or alcohol on 13 duty; 14 They may not possess alcohol or a controlled 15 substance while on duty. 16 Now, I have a citation that says: Has an 17 alcohol concentration of .02. 18 And the citation is in the testimony, so if 19 that's wrong, I apologize, because I'm hearing "04." 20 "02" would be better, and "01" would be 21 better than that. 22 So, I'm not -- this is not an argument among 23 and between friends. This is a discussion of how 24 we're using our resources, where they would best be 25 made, what other competing issues come before school 1 boards all the time. 2 So, to continue: 3 They can't test positive for a controlled 4 substance; 5 Or has -- or they have adulterated or 6 substituted a test specimen with controlled 7 substances, refuses to take required alcohol and 8 controlled substance tests. 9 We must also engage in random alcohol and 10 drug testing. 11 And, you've got that also in the testimony, 12 so I think that I will go on, so that I don't take 13 that much more time. 14 Our recommendations: 15 Number one: More vigilant adherence to the 16 policies and required practices that are already on 17 the books. 18 Encouragement and support for the 19 transference of best practices and options that 20 school districts could employ would be helpful in 21 making the current framework better. Different size 22 school districts and different geographical 23 consideration among urban, suburban, and rural 24 districts might benefit from the policies and 25 practices of like districts. 1 Again, a one-size-fits-all singular solution, 2 such as a uniform ignition interlocking device, 3 could be counterproductive. 4 For those districts that may find an ignition 5 interlocking device beneficial for at least part of 6 their fleet, this equipment should be recognized as 7 allowable expense under the State-aid ratio. 8 This would allow a special circumstances to 9 be recognized, or tried as a demonstration program, 10 without a statewide mandate. 11 And referring back to what you were 12 discussing before with Peter, would be, on a field 13 trip, for instance, you know, a school district that 14 said, We do a lot of them, or, We have -- the bus 15 that they use for field trips, that school district 16 might say, We want an interlocking device on that 17 bus, because we don't have enough control over that 18 bus driver while he's away from us. 19 Just thoughts of ways that we can address 20 this, because I don't think anybody here -- I know 21 nobody here does not want to address this issue, and 22 in the best way possible. 23 And that's our problem: What's the best way 24 possible, and what are our priorities? 25 Number three: Remove labor disputes from 1 school districts that may desire to implement 2 practices in driver observations, and drug and 3 alcohol testing that exceeds federal and state 4 requirements. 5 Also provide that a school district or a 6 private contractor used by the district can remove 7 from employment, without further cause, a school bus 8 driver who tests positive on a drug and alcohol 9 test. 10 There was a recent case, where, because of 11 imprecise contract language, a driver who tested 12 positive for marijuana right after she did her run, 13 both the hearing officer and the appeals court said: 14 No, you can't fire her. 15 She needed progressive discipline. 16 And, so, you know, we see those kinds of 17 problems, that we should also -- also be addressing. 18 And we should [unintelligible]. 19 And you've got the citation there, also. 20 Improve the effectiveness of the New York 21 State Vehicle and Traffic Law, Section 509-e, that 22 requires a school district to review at least once 23 every 12 months the driving record of every driver. 24 The section could be improved by the 25 inclusion of the driver's DMV abstract of any 1 positive drug or alcohol test results over the full 2 course of their driving history. 3 Having this information, even though it is 4 not a conviction or may be far removed from the 5 present, in one centralized location, will make the 6 review more comprehensive and effective. 7 Make the effective date of any new cost, if 8 any, prospective, so that school districts are not 9 forced to withdraw funding from planned programs and 10 services to pay for a new requirement from an 11 already pared-down local budget that has been 12 approved by its public. 13 So in conclusion: 14 The recent incidents involving intoxicated 15 school bus drivers cannot be tolerated. 16 One occurrence, as we have said, is one too 17 many. 18 The goal of every school district, with 19 respect to school bus drivers under the influence of 20 drugs and/or alcohol, is the total elimination of 21 such occurrences. 22 NYSSBA recognizes the importance of continual 23 quality improvement as this goal is pursued. 24 NYSSBA further recognizes the importance of 25 investing in efforts that increase effectiveness, 1 and decrease the frequency of impaired school bus 2 drivers. 3 Prevention is the key element. 4 The utilization of the current statutes and 5 regulations, combined with well-trained supervision, 6 and the implementation of the recommendations above, 7 NYSSBA believes, are the most effective ways to 8 proceed. 9 We are grateful for your focus on this issue, 10 and the opportunity to provide you with what we hope 11 is a relevant perspective and a helpful alternative 12 approach. 13 Once again, I thank you for the opportunity 14 to testify. 15 Hope I can answer any questions you have. 16 If I cannot, because I am not an expert in 17 this field, I will be more than happy to carry your 18 questions, and get you answers. 19 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Susan, first of all, 20 thank you very much for being here, and taking the 21 time. 22 And I appreciate your testimony, especially 23 your recommendations. 24 Your conclusion stated something that is why 25 we're here: Prevention is the key element. 1 And that's really our goal, as we go forward 2 with gathering the input of those who are testifying 3 here today, and with the recommendations that have 4 been given forth to the Committee. 5 I have no questions. 6 You were clear, concise, and I appreciate it. 7 Thank you very much for being here. 8 I don't know if anybody else does on the 9 panel? 10 No questions? 11 Okay, thank you. 12 SUSAN BERGTRAUM: I thank you again. 13 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Juanita Samuels, 14 vice president of TWU, Local 252. 15 Hi, Juanita. Good morning. 16 JUANITA SAMUELS: Good morning. 17 My name is Juanita Samuels, and I'm 18 vice president of TWU, Local 252. 19 We represent over 3500 hard-working men and 20 women in Nassau and Suffolk Counties. 21 I thank you for the opportunity to address 22 the Committee today. 23 Please be assured, we respect your 24 motivation, and share your concern for safety of our 25 children. 1 While we urge you to oppose Assembly 2 Bill A837 and Senate Bill S1347, which mandates 3 initiation [sic] interlock devices for school buses 4 manufactured after July 1, 2015, authorizes school 5 boards to determine the specifics of retrofitting 6 school buses manufactured prior to such date, 7 permits school boards to adopt policies requiring 8 installation and use of such devices, provides State 9 aid for expense incurred for such devices, we 10 believe the State must, and should, take measures to 11 eliminate the threat of impaired driving. 12 The bills in question at today's hearing do 13 not solve the problem of impaired driving. 14 It treats good, hard-working drivers as 15 criminals, forcing them to submit to a breathalyzer 16 at the minimum of four times per day, often in front 17 of children, and will cost the taxpayers of the 18 state in excess of 60 million per year to maintain. 19 The members of TWU, Local 252, encourage you 20 to adopt the following rules to combat impaired 21 driving: 22 Increase random alcohol testing rates, from 23 10 percent to 25 percent; 24 Require all vehicles to park on company 25 property at night. Stop the take-home vans, where 1 drivers can behave badly before work; 2 Set a state minimum wage for bus drivers at 3 the regional poverty-level state living wage; 4 Fix the school bus CDL law to require all 5 newly hired school bus drivers to have the 6 S Endorsement not currently required for vans under 7 10,000 pounds; 8 Bring the New York State DOT PTSB transit 9 regulations into the school bus industry; 10 Include in the requirements of a 11 safety-system plan that must be filled -- filed with 12 the State, and is subject to review every 13 three years; 14 Add $25 to every bus registration, to fund a 15 program, whereby the safety-system plan and the 16 current New York State DMV driver files are audited 17 once a year. 18 There is much regulation that is supported by 19 paperwork that is required to be kept on company 20 property, but goes mostly unchecked, and can be 21 easily fabricated. 22 Thank you for your consideration, and I look 23 forward to working with you to make these 24 commonsense changes. 25 1 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Juanita, thank you very 2 much. I appreciate your recommendations. 3 Let me ask you a question that I had asked 4 one of the previous speakers. 5 Would you support a zero tolerance? 6 JUANITA SAMUELS: Yes. 7 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: And also a permanent 8 disqualification for convicted drunk drivers? 9 JUANITA SAMUELS: Yes. 10 I'm fortunate enough to work at one of our 11 companies that we represent. 12 They have zero tolerance. 13 If you're caught; if you test positive for 14 drugs or alcohol, it's automatic dismissal. There's 15 nothing we can do. 16 You know, most of the drivers that drive are 17 grandmothers, we're all parents. You know, we 18 don't -- we're not -- we're safety-conscious also, 19 and we don't want anybody to get hurt. 20 I mean, when you see, as a bus driver -- I 21 was a bus driver for 17 years -- when you see 22 somebody going through the house with a busload of 23 kids, it affects you too. 24 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: So somebody is not 25 necessarily even convicted, but if somebody tests 1 positive for drugs or alcohol, they're fired? 2 JUANITA SAMUELS: Automatically. 3 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Gone? 4 JUANITA SAMUELS: Yep. 5 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay. 6 JUANITA SAMUELS: Zero tolerance. 7 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Lee? 8 SENATOR ZELDIN: I will just state that, you 9 know, Juanita, I've had an opportunity to see you at 10 a lot of different community events in my own 11 district. 12 And, you know, when I think of the example, 13 bus driver that's out there in our community right 14 now, and it's much to the credit of you and your 15 members, again, I think of people like you. 16 JUANITA SAMUELS: Right. 17 SENATOR ZELDIN: And, you know, we're 18 focusing in on, you know, those rare exceptions, 19 doing the wrong thing, but, you know, I think of all 20 of your involvement in my own community, I think of 21 my daughter's bus drivers. 22 And the fact is, we have a lot of great 23 people working in this industry right now, across 24 Long Island and New York State. 25 JUANITA SAMUELS: Right. 1 And being a union member, I often see other 2 bus companies, and when you see what they get away 3 with, I'm like, What? Where are you coming from? 4 It's not -- it's different through different 5 companies. 6 SENATOR ZELDIN: And I think that it's, you 7 know -- 8 JUANITA SAMUELS: It's scary. 9 SENATOR ZELDIN: -- I think it's an important 10 point, that the culture within the business, within 11 that busing company, the way that they have their 12 own standards, and their own zero-tolerance policy, 13 their own research and hiring practices, the 14 leadership within the company, that's -- that's 15 maybe most important here, is having the right 16 culture within the company. 17 JUANITA SAMUELS: Yes, that's a big plus, and 18 it reflects on the driver. 19 When you have better owners and, contractors, 20 I should say, you can tell -- you can clearly see a 21 difference. 22 And I've been -- this is my third term as 23 vice president, and we visit around with other 24 companies. 25 All companies are not the same. Some are at 1 a different standard than others. 2 SENATOR ZELDIN: Thank you, Juanita. 3 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Assemblyman Montesano? 4 ASSEMBLYMAN MONTESANO: Hi, yes, Ms. Samuels, 5 I just have one question for you. 6 In your Comment E, for the New York State 7 DOT, to bring the PTSB transit regulations to the 8 school bus industry, could you just tell me 9 something about that PTSB regulation? 10 I mean, are you familiar with what it is? 11 JUANITA SAMUELS: I'm not -- I don't want to 12 give the wrong information, but I can get some 13 information and get it submitted to you. 14 ASSEMBLYMAN MONTESANO: If you would, please. 15 Thank you. 16 JUANITA SAMUELS: I will. Will do. 17 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you, Juanita. 18 JUANITA SAMUELS: Okay. Thank you. 19 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: John Corrado, president 20 of Suffolk Transportation Services. 21 Good morning, John. 22 PAUL MORI: He's better looking. He's 23 younger. 24 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: And, Paul Mori, who is a 25 board member of the New York State School Bus 1 Contractors Association. 2 Gentlemen, thank you very much for being 3 here. 4 JOHN J. CORRADO: Thank you very much for 5 having us. 6 Thank you, Senator, and Senators and 7 Assemblymen, for conducting this hearing. 8 Before I begin my comments, I want to just 9 make it clear that my comments represent my own 10 company. 11 Paul is here representing the School Bus 12 Contractors Association, of which I am a member, and 13 I sit on the board with him. 14 And, thanks for letting me go first, Paul. 15 My name is John J. Corrado. I'm president of 16 Suffolk Transportation, a family and school bus and 17 transit bus company located in Bay Shore, New York. 18 For purposes of abbreviation: 19 My grandparents were bus drivers, they came 20 to this country. 21 My father was in that business, and then 22 bought Suffolk Transportation in the early '70s. 23 After a short career as a CPA, I joined my 24 family business in 1988. 25 New York State runs a very large school bus 1 transportation system. 2 There are approximately 50,000 vehicles 3 moving 2.5 million children over 250 million miles 4 of road. 5 The approximate total cost of the system to 6 the taxpayer is about $3 billion per year, of which 7 more than half is -- on average, is supported by the 8 State funding. 9 Currently, New York State DOT has a robust 10 program for vehicle inspection, spending one hour 11 inspecting each vehicle twice a year. 12 That's two hours of oversight per vehicle, 13 per year. 14 New York State inspectors either pass or fail 15 a bus on this inspection. 16 The pass rate is accumulated and publicly 17 published for each operator at the end of each 18 fiscal year. 19 The inspection almost guarantees that every 20 school bus is mechanically safe to transport 21 children, and this system has served to improve the 22 maintenance program at every carrier in the state, 23 both private and district-run operations. 24 However, there is no State inspection of a 25 carrier safety practice. 1 In fact, a bus company or school district in 2 New York State, they are not required to have any 3 creative safety practices, or even a safety manual. 4 New York State DMV requires that each 5 property maintain a driver file with documentation 6 to support the requirements under 19-A. 7 This documentation is reviewed for 8 completeness periodically by DMV inspectors, but is 9 simply a paper review. 10 We're here today because the industry has 11 failed the children of New York with several 12 DUI arrests this school year alone. 13 I am not here to compare my company to 14 others. 15 I would also add that most carriers 16 throughout New York State are putting a very good 17 effort forward on safety, but more can be done to 18 protect our children. 19 Over the years there's been great advancement 20 in bus safety. 21 New York State DOT vehicle inspections, 22 BUSNET, DMV Article 19-A, drug testing, CDL, the 23 physical-performance test, have all served to 24 elevate the standards in our industry. 25 Then, in 1996, Governor Pataki and the State 1 Legislature passed the RFP Proposal Law, which, for 2 the first time, allowed school districts to do a 3 qualitative, as well as a quantitative, review of 4 the bus service through the bid process. 5 The RFP put the power of how tax dollars are 6 spent back in the hands of the taxpayer and the 7 district and the State. 8 As a side note, in our effort to improve 9 safety, Section 305 of the State Education Law 10 should limit the use of a low bid to contracts that 11 are under 1 million annually. 12 I don't even know if we should set a dollar 13 limit. 14 We can go back to that further, but, the 15 low-bid system is a race to the bottom. 16 I would support any effort to improve school 17 bus safety; however, the interlock system, in my 18 opinion, is not the most cost -- the most effective 19 way to achieve this goal. 20 My concern, is that it will only serve to 21 mask other operating-safety issues. 22 There's also a major invested that simply 23 leaves too many holes for bad behavior to fall 24 through. 25 There are several simple steps that the State 1 can take to reduce the chances of having a 2 school-district driver on the road in an impaired 3 state. 4 Others have spoken, or will speak, to some of 5 the these detailed suggestions, including, no 6 take-home vans, and increased random alcohol 7 testing. 8 However, I'd like to propose a more global 9 solution that will serve to improve school bus 10 safety on all levels. 11 In New York State, if you are a 12 public-transit provider, you must develop and file 13 with the State, a System Safety Procedure Plan 14 (SSPP). 15 The New York State DOT Public Transportation 16 Safety Board outlines what this plan is to cover. 17 The PTSB reviews and approves this plan. 18 Every two years, this plan must be updated 19 and resubmitted for approval. 20 The plan is subject to State audit, and is 21 used by the PTSB as part of their independent 22 accident investigation of a public-transit accident. 23 Failure to have an approved plan could lead 24 to revocation of a carrier's operating authority. 25 The SSPP is there to protect the riding 1 public, and the State employees' engineers to 2 monitor these plans. 3 I would like to suggest that this safety-plan 4 model be modified and expanded into the school bus 5 transportation system for both private operators and 6 district-run fleets. 7 Most companies have a good safety manual in 8 place. For these companies, it would not be a big 9 effort to adopt the PTSB model. 10 Monitoring would be done by the State-hired 11 engineers. 12 The cost of this program could be supported 13 by a $50-per-year charge for a New York State cab 14 card. 15 Again, this cab card is a fee-collection 16 system that is already in place for transit and 17 charter companies. 18 Non-compliant properties would be given time 19 and guidance on how to improve their operation, or 20 risk losing their operating authority. 21 The objective would be, to set a state 22 standard for school bus safety, with the goal of 23 evaluating every carrier's safety levels. 24 Senator, we're here today because you have 25 sensed that something is wrong, and that our state 1 school bus system has let you down. 2 Let's work together to remove the uncertainty 3 around the level of safety that our children receive 4 in the state. 5 We put the safety net in place for the 6 public-transit rider, and the time is right for us 7 to put this in place for the riding children. 8 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Paul -- 9 John, let me ask you a quick question. 10 How many vehicles do you have in your 11 company? 12 JOHN J. CORRADO: About 1,000 vehicles. 13 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: You heard the previous 14 testimony. 15 If an individual has tested positive for 16 drugs and alcohol, do you have the same policy, zero 17 tolerance? 18 JOHN J. CORRADO: Yes. 19 Juanita represents the drivers on our 20 property. 21 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay. 22 Paul. 23 PAUL MORI: Thank you, Senator. 24 Thank you to the whole Committee for allowing 25 to us speak here. 1 Oh, I'm usually loud enough. 2 There we go. 3 Good morning, and thank you for inviting the 4 New York School Bus Contractors Association to speak 5 at today's public hearing on the ignition interlock 6 devices. 7 My name is Paul Quinn Mori, and I'm a board 8 member of the New York School Bus Contractors 9 Association, and, a senior manager at 10 Huntington Coach, where I've worked for 32 years. 11 I'm here today representing New York School 12 Bus Contractors Association. 13 We have an organization of over 200 private 14 pupil-transportation companies, with more than 15 35,000 employees operating over 28,000 buses across 16 the state. 17 New York school bus contractors provide 18 pupil-transportation services for well over 19 a million children, which is just about a half of 20 the 2.3 million children riding school buses. 21 Given the focus of today's hearing, I believe 22 it is important for me to highlight my experience as 23 a school bus safety professional. 24 In addition to being a school bus operator, 25 or contractor, I am a State Education Department 1 master instructor, DMV-certified 19-A examiner, 2 defensive-driving instructor, and first responder. 3 As I begin my remarks, it goes without 4 saying, that providing our schoolchildren with the 5 safest mode of transportation to and from school is 6 our utmost priority. 7 I could not help, but listening to 8 Ms. Escudero speak, and looking at little Christian, 9 something my wife, much -- far wiser than me, told 10 me many years ago, "Picture your daughter in every 11 school bus that you run." 12 And I do that. 13 And I could see the look in Senator Zeldin's 14 face when he was talking about children on school 15 buses, and how personal it is to folks like us. 16 My child doesn't get to ride my own bus, but 17 I want to make sure that whatever bus she rides is 18 just as safe as mine. 19 We take our responsibility seriously, and 20 truly love what we do. 21 I think you'll find that throughout the 22 entire school bus industry. 23 We are here today because of a very small 24 number of irresponsible school bus drivers chose to 25 put children in harm's way by operating a school bus 1 while under the influence of alcohol. 2 While we cannot dismiss the severity of this 3 egregious behavior, we also must not dismiss the 4 sensibility of ensuring our public-policy reaction 5 is rational and judicious. 6 New York State is the leader in school bus 7 and school bus driver safety. 8 I don't know if everybody realizes in this 9 room, but we operate more buses than any other 10 state. 11 We're about two and a half times the size of 12 California in school buses. 13 There has never been a documented fatality in 14 New York State concerning drugs or alcohol and the 15 driver. 16 We don't rest on that alone, and that's what 17 we're here to talk about. 18 School buses are, by far, the safest way for 19 a child to get to and from school in New York. 20 Statistically, almost 40 times safer than riding in 21 a car. 22 The U.S. Department of Transportation has 23 documented the fact that school buses continue to be 24 the safest mode of transportation in the country for 25 transporting children to and from school and any 1 activities. 2 Nationwide, over the last ten years, there's 3 been 37 documented cases of school bus drivers 4 operating a bus under the influence of alcohol. 5 While there has been, in the recent months, 6 several high-profile incidents here in New York, it 7 is important to look at them in the context of 8 nearly half a million school bus drivers on the road 9 each day, nationwide. 10 While we believe any case of intoxicated bus 11 drivers is unacceptable, overall, school districts 12 and contractors are doing a phenomenal job at 13 transporting those 2.3 million children to and from 14 school. 15 We present these safety statistics to 16 illustrate that school buses continue to be the 17 safest mode of transportation for schoolchildren in 18 the country, and to illustrate why we believe that 19 mandating ignition interlock devices on every school 20 bus is clearly not a rational response to those 21 isolated events. 22 Some flaws to the ignition interlocks: 23 As I turn to today's topic, it goes without 24 saying, that there are a number of problems 25 concerning -- surrounding the idea of mandating the 1 installation of interlocks on school buses. 2 Mandating ignition interlocks as a way to 3 monitor innocent drivers would be unprecedented. 4 Currently, interlock devices are only used 5 after criminal conviction. 6 This would be the first time an entire 7 workforce would be required to prove sobriety before 8 going on the road. 9 The "guilty until proven innocent" approach 10 is generally not the best way to motivate, recruit, 11 or retain good school bus drivers. 12 We are, after all, talking about school bus 13 drivers, statistically, the safest and most 14 conscientious drivers on the roads today. 15 Mandating ignition interlocks would be like 16 making every citizen in the state wear an ankle 17 monitor regardless of guilt. 18 There are serious concerns regarding the 19 safety of, and logic behind, mandating the interlock 20 systems. 21 I would like to share with you just a few of 22 those concerns. 23 First, school buses would not start until the 24 interlock device is engaged. 25 It would have to be engaged, and reengaged, 1 every time a school bus is started, and restarted. 2 Strict idling laws in New York State means 3 school bus drivers would constantly be blowing into 4 the interlock system throughout the day, creating 5 significant distraction for the driver. 6 The device must be maintained and calibrated 7 regularly for it to work consistently. 8 Any false-positives or other problems with 9 the device would lead to significant employee and 10 transportation-management issues. 11 Photographic and/or fingerprint data is 12 required. 13 This would be extremely problematic in the 14 not so unusual situation where drivers use different 15 buses during the day. 16 To be effective, these devices also require 17 activation from the driver while the vehicle is 18 running. While the vehicle will not stop moving 19 during this process, warning lights and horns are 20 usually activated. 21 These things that could be warning -- could 22 be alarming create major distractions to the driver, 23 and, ultimately, be dangerous for students riding 24 the bus. 25 And make sure you don't rinse with Listerine 1 before you drive your school bus, because this could 2 trigger the interlock device. 3 Any false-positives or device glitches could 4 cause transportation-service delays for parents, 5 schools, and, of course, the children. 6 If the ignition interlock is not serviced 7 within a predetermined schedule, the school bus will 8 be rendered inoperable. This alone would be a 9 severe and expensive item to add for the service 10 schedule each month. 11 Finally, there's the cost: 12 Installation, typically, between 100 to and 13 200 dollars, with a monthly rental fee of somewhere 14 between 75 and 100 dollars per device. 15 And the cost -- adding the cost of regular 16 maintenance, calibration, training, and additional 17 staffing, the costs become astronomical. 18 Extrapolate these costs over 50,000 school 19 buses, and the increase in costs to school districts 20 and taxpayers could be well over $100 million in the 21 first year alone, with recurring costs to districts 22 and taxpayers of $60 million a year. 23 Smarter solutions: 24 As champions of school bus safety, we believe 25 there are better solutions that will make school 1 buses even safer, and help prevent the rare incident 2 of an intoxicated or impaired school bus driver. 3 First, we believe in increasing and expanding 4 random drug and alcohol testing for school bus 5 drivers, taking the alcohol test rate of 10, to a 6 minimum of 25 percent. 7 An obvious flaw with the ignition locks is 8 they only test for alcohol, and not other drugs. 9 While many contractors already subject all of 10 their drivers to random testing, under current law, 11 drug and alcohol testing for school bus drivers only 12 applies to certain license holders, and some drivers 13 are actually excluded from the testing pool. 14 We would like to see New York State require 15 testing of all drivers of all school vehicles. 16 This would include expanding the state's 17 legal definition of a "school bus," to include all 18 school vehicles, including nursery schools, daycare, 19 and day camps, and Head Start programs. 20 In addition, mechanics, driver-attendance 21 monitors, and dispatchers should also be tested at 22 the same rates as the other safety-sensitive 23 employees. 24 One of the most glaring school bus safety 25 gaps in New York State law is a lack of requirement 1 that drivers of school buses with 14 or fewer 2 passengers are not subjected to drug and alcohol 3 testing. 4 The State could easily fix this problem. 5 New York should follow the federal minimum of 6 50 percent random drug testing; increase random 7 alcohol testing to at least the 25 percent that we 8 spoke of. 9 Additional employee- and management-education 10 programs should be implemented, along with 11 increasing the training for supervisors in 12 drug-and-alcohol-use recognition. 13 There are also laws on the books that require 14 direct observation of a school bus driver. 15 This is -- Senator Fuschillo is well aware of 16 509-cc. 17 509 requires that. And I think that's where 18 we should be leaning towards. 19 New York State Department of Motor Vehicles 20 should keep a registry of drivers who have been 21 disqualified from work due to failed, or refusing to 22 take, drug or alcohol tests. 23 In addition, expanding driver records to show 24 drug or alcohol convictions. Current driver 25 abstracts only show alcohol violations for the past 1 ten years. 2 They were speaking earlier, New York State 3 DMV policy is, showing three, plus the current year, 4 except if there's an alcohol violation. 5 They will show you an alcohol violation 6 forever if there was an injury-producing crash, but, 7 to mask something that's 11 years old, as an 8 employer, I would want to know that, because I 9 wouldn't hire that person. 10 Expanding these lists would help in 11 identifying potentially dangerous drivers before 12 they are hired and hit the road. 13 The New York State School Bus Contractors 14 Association also favors increasing penalties for 15 drivers convicted of operating a school bus under 16 the influence. 17 We realize that even one 18 driving-while-intoxicated incident endangers all. 19 It's -- though rare as it is, we still have 20 to be rational and judicious in our approach to 21 handling the problem. 22 There are a number of smart improvements that 23 can be made to our current laws to keep our school 24 buses as safe as possible, all of which will be more 25 effective than mandating expensive and untested 1 ignition interlock devices. 2 The New York School Bus Contractors 3 Association remains committed to making sure 4 New York schoolchildren are provided the safest, 5 most reliable school transportation services in the 6 country. 7 We look forward to working with the 8 Legislature, to make sure school bus travel remains 9 the safest mode of transportation for a child going 10 to and from school. 11 Quick question -- I just had a couple of 12 things. 13 As the Senator knows, sometimes get into my 14 nit-picky stuff. 15 There is a zero-tolerance policy already on 16 the books with the BTL. 17 Article 19-A, it's a six-hour window. 18 Federal Motor Carrier says, four hours. 19 Article 19-A already says, six hours. 20 I think that could easily be expanded to an 21 eight-hour window. 22 That would prevent someone going out the 23 night before, and showing up for work at 6:00 in the 24 morning. 25 I think it would be more -- one of our ideas 1 would take that to eight hours. 2 Most companies already have the 3 zero-tolerance policy in place: You test positive, 4 you lose your job. 5 But, if someone comes to me, and fails -- 6 And we use direct observation. We have 7 several layers of supervisors, before a driver goes 8 on the road. And even our driver-attendance goes 9 through that the same process. 10 -- that, if we spot something, and they meet 11 the guidelines of what's called "reasonable 12 suspicion," it's mandated by FMCSA, Part 40, if you 13 follow those procedures, you will prevent the driver 14 from getting on the record. 15 But if a person refuses a test, or tests and 16 tests positive, of course, they have lost their job 17 with me, there's no method in place now, where that 18 information goes and gets stored in Motor Vehicles, 19 so they don't go to another person's company or 20 school district. 21 You know, people say: Paul, you're really 22 tough and you're hard on people. 23 This is a zero tolerance. 24 I saw that beautiful young boy, Christian, 25 sitting up here, and I just saw my daughter. 1 And that's how I take it really seriously. 2 The most -- the question I wanted to get 3 thrown at me was, Assemblyman Montesano's question 4 is a really good one: 5 My particular operation -- now I'm talking 6 for my own company, Huntington Coach -- my drivers, 7 they see us sometimes, eight, ten times a day; in 8 and out, in and out, in and out. 9 They come, they sign in, we go through the 10 whole process, over and over again. 11 But what about a charter? 12 The advantage of a charter is, there's 13 usually adult supervision on that charter. There's 14 an adult with them. They're not going and taking a 15 group that doesn't -- you know, we're not taking 16 young children. 17 And that's how heinous I -- the crimes 18 [unintelligible], where, you know, these children 19 trusted these drivers, and these drivers failed 20 them. 21 And we're here so not to have that happen. 22 And, of course, I will take any questions you 23 have. 24 25 1 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Well, John, thank you 2 very much, and for both of your testimonies. And I 3 appreciate the recommendations. 4 Senator Zeldin? 5 SENATOR ZELDIN: I appreciate that as well, 6 that you came and offered up ideas, as prior 7 speakers have. 8 Before I depart, I just wanted to thank 9 Chairman Fuschillo for doing this hearing today, 10 which has been very informative for me. 11 In working with Senator Fuschillo over the 12 course of the last few years, he's really stood out 13 amongst, you know, us 213 legislators up in Albany, 14 for -- you know, for his sensitivity, his concern, 15 his caring, for New York families, for his own 16 constituents. 17 And Melissa and Christian, you're very well 18 served, as are my father and stepmother who live in 19 the Senator's district. 20 They're very lucky to have you, and just 21 appreciate you doing this, again, with many 22 different issues. 23 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you, Lee. 24 SENATOR ZELDIN: We see it behind the scenes 25 up in Albany, with the way that Senator Fuschillo 1 cares about families. 2 And I'd be remiss if I didn't offer up my 3 thoughts. 4 Thank you for your leadership. 5 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Do you guys want to be 6 alone? 7 [Laughter.] 8 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you very much to 9 the Number One Senator in my book from now on. 10 [Laughter.] 11 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Assemblyman McDonough? 12 Thank you, Lee. 13 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: Paul, you mentioned 14 the fact that, under 14 passengers are not 15 required -- 16 PAUL MORI: No. 17 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: Do you have buses 18 that have -- 19 Thank you. 20 Do you have buses that -- 21 PAUL MORI: Yes, but -- 22 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: -- but you do require 23 the testing? 24 PAUL MORI: We require the testing, because 25 we make all our drivers -- and Juanita, who spoke 1 before, was direct on -- we require all our drivers 2 to have CPS licenses which meet the federal 3 standards, so they're in the drug-testing pool. 4 But, my particular company, we drug test 5 secretaries, office staff, and everything else, in a 6 separate pool. 7 You would have to create a separate pool, but 8 it's well within the purview of you folks here to 9 have that. 10 And I would say, the best place would be DMV, 11 because they're in the most contact with carriers at 12 every stage of the game. 13 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: And that's buses that 14 are designed for 14 or less; right? 15 PAUL MORI: 14 or less, it's an -- 16 unfortunately, it's an exemption in the FMCSA, and, 17 it's right there. 18 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: We should do so. 19 PAUL MORI: Yes. 20 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: Thank you. 21 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Yeah, Paul and John, I 22 really appreciate you taking the time, and being 23 here today. Your testimony is very important to 24 myself and the panel here. 25 And, all during the legislative session, I 1 received input from the association, and I thank you 2 for that. 3 PAUL MORI: And we thank you for listening to 4 us. 5 JOHN J. CORRADO: Assemblyman Montesano, you 6 asked about the PTSB system safety plan model. 7 And I don't know if Senator Fuschillo gave 8 you have a copy of my comments, but at the bottom is 9 a link. And it's there, we have it. 10 Yeah. 11 PAUL MORI: Just speaking to what John was 12 saying there is, it's unusual, but the federal 13 government has Part 40, which covers drug testing 14 for CDL drivers. And they have Part 655 for federal 15 transit administration properties. And they're more 16 inclusive in Part 655 than they are in Part 40. 17 And, drug, when we were talking before about 18 the accident, that a driver was killed, I was a 19 friend of his. 20 That was Jorge Guevara up in Locust Valley. 21 I was also one of the first responders on the 22 scene. 23 And at the time, you know, you just -- you 24 shock, because he's a good person, and a good 25 friend. 1 And then the other side of me, the 2 firefighter and medic is thinking of, What can you 3 do for him? 4 And there was nothing we could do. 5 Jorge went through all the drug and alcohol 6 testing. 7 It's not -- it's not as apparent, that, how 8 far we go beyond, to maintain our drivers in the 9 best possible [unintelligible]. 10 I would have loved to have asked him some 11 questions on the physical, because the physical 12 really is in-depth, and it's prescribed by the 13 federal government. And we do it twice as often as 14 the federal government requires. 15 So, we're out there, making sure children are 16 safe. 17 JOHN J. CORRADO: One last one point. I'm 18 sorry. 19 You know, we talk about all of the 20 requirements, and there's a lot of stuff in place, 21 the physicals [unintelligible], and what have you. 22 I think a common tone here with people that 23 are expressing concern, is the lack of oversight. 24 So, you have -- you can put all these things 25 in writing. You can even require the interlock. 1 But if you're a company that's so inclined to 2 not use it properly, or not keep it maintained 3 properly, so you can save some money, you know, or a 4 school district that maybe doesn't have personnel to 5 properly monitor it, then it doesn't work. 6 So, I think that's a very -- you know, before 7 we go further with the regulation, that we look at 8 some of the oversight. 9 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you, John. 10 Thank you, Paul. 11 David Kelly; Craig Lotz. 12 Good afternoon, gentlemen. 13 F. CRAIG LOTZ: Good afternoon. 14 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: And thank you for being 15 here. 16 For the record, just state your name, your 17 title, and your affiliation. 18 F. CRAIG LOTZ: Yes, Craig Lotz, 19 Chief Executive Officer of Sens-O-Lock of America. 20 We're located just outside of Albany. 21 DAVID KELLY: I'm David Kelly. I'm the 22 executive director of the Coalition of Ignition 23 Interlock Manufacturers. 24 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you very much for 25 being here. 1 F. CRAIG LOTZ: I think we're -- thank you 2 for the opportunity, Senator Fuschillo, and the 3 panel, to come out and talk a little bit about 4 ignition interlocks. 5 Clearly, they're a thoroughly tested and 6 proven technology that can identify and prevent an 7 impaired driver from operating a vehicle, be it a 8 school bus or a vehicle of any sort. 9 We have, for years, my dad has been an 10 advocate of this for about 10 or 15 years. 11 And over the course of that time period, we 12 have actually looked at the school bus industry and 13 market as a submarket for the ignition interlocks, 14 and designed the technology to really be 15 noninvasive. 16 Clearly, an ignition interlock, as it's 17 required for mandated cases, for DUI convictions, 18 could be invasive for a school bus environment. 19 There are ways to limit that, to make it as 20 noninvasive a procedure as possible, yet still 21 protect the communities in which our drivers are 22 driving, as well as the children on the school bus. 23 The way we do that is, using brake-pedal 24 technology, and, we also have the option to include 25 a bypass switch. 1 So in the environment where there is a school 2 bus yard, and maybe the yard-starter goes out and 3 has to start 50, or 100, buses, it's really not 4 reasonable to expect a single person to blow into 5 50, or 100, devices to start a bus. 6 So the yard-starter, in that case, with a 7 key, would disable the ignition interlock, start the 8 bus, reengage it, take the key out. 9 When the driver arrives, and, again, assuming 10 that they're starting the buses to cool or heat 11 before the route starts, once the driver depresses 12 the brake pedal to put in gear, it would require a 13 sample. 14 It's a 4-second sample, very easy to provide. 15 It's a straight blow. 16 Not -- it's a very healthy type of 17 environment, versus, you know, drawing air back into 18 your lungs. 19 So once they provide the sample, and they 20 pass, the bus driver is able to drive off the lot. 21 If, for some reason, the driver fails a test, 22 lights would flash and a horn would blow, indicating 23 that there's an issue with that particular bus 24 driver, at which point, somebody could come on site 25 and look at it, and make a resolution or make a 1 decision. 2 Once a driver begins a route, as long as -- 3 and this is an option -- as long as the brake pedal 4 is being depressed on a regular basis, it could be 5 defined as every 15 or 20 minutes, they are not 6 required to provide a retest. 7 So this enables the driver to remain focused 8 on driving the school bus, not taking their eyes off 9 the road and being distracted, providing a sample. 10 And, also, not having the children visual -- 11 have a visual recognition that the driver is 12 providing an air sample, and the ridicule that may 13 follow. 14 From a -- from the maintenance perspective, 15 again, this bypass system enables the school bus 16 maintenance personnel to bypass the system while 17 they're working on the school bus, not requiring the 18 driver or the maintenance people -- maintenance 19 people, in this case, from providing samples as 20 they're, you know, providing a tune-up, or what have 21 you. 22 So, it makes it a very effective means of 23 operating in that kind of environment. 24 25 1 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Tell me a little bit 2 about your company, as a whole. 3 How long have you been in business? 4 How big is your company? 5 How many ignition interlocks? 6 Are you a manufacturer or a supplier? 7 F. CRAIG LOTZ: We're a -- we're based 8 outside of Albany. We're a family-owned/operated 9 business. 10 My dad started the company 15 years ago. 11 He, about six years ago, was asking me if I 12 can take it over. 13 I've been running companies for the past 14 16 years. 15 And, looking at the opportunity, and looking 16 at the marketplace, I agreed to do so four years 17 ago. 18 We have -- currently, we have well over 19 1,000 current customers who are using our 20 technology. 21 Over the course of the last 15 years, you 22 know, thousands and thousands of customers that have 23 been using this technology: Automobiles. We have 24 small light-duty trucks, work trucks. 25 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Any companies installing 1 them, or individuals on a voluntary basis, other 2 than a requirement -- a court requirement? 3 F. CRAIG LOTZ: Sure. 4 And to your point earlier, about, you know, 5 drivers -- bus drivers, or a casual driver, that has 6 to provide a sample, so, you know, if they're not 7 guilty, if there's no issue, then they're doing this 8 under the auspices of safety for our children. 9 So there really should not be an issue 10 associated with that. 11 We have hundreds of customers that have, over 12 the years, purchased these devices on a voluntary 13 basis; be it for a child, a parent, a spouse, an 14 ex-spouse, what have you. 15 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: You do the monitoring as 16 well? 17 F. CRAIG LOTZ: We do. 18 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Servicing? 19 F. CRAIG LOTZ: Yes. 20 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Repairs? 21 F. CRAIG LOTZ: Yes. 22 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: I'm sorry, you can -- 23 SENATOR MARCELLINO: How do you deal -- 24 I'm sorry. 25 How do you deal with the issue that was 1 mentioned by one of the prior speakers, our idling 2 laws, which may require the driver to turn the bus 3 off, you know, and then have to restart it again 4 later, constantly, so you may have that happen two 5 or three times a day? 6 F. CRAIG LOTZ: Sure. 7 In that environment, it would -- they'd be 8 required to provide a sample prior to starting the 9 vehicle, which I think is what we would want. 10 This would prevent a driver from taking a 11 break, possibly going into a bar or restaurant, 12 consuming alcohol, and returning to the bus, and 13 starting it. 14 So, they would have to provide the sample 15 throughout the day. 16 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Does that not increase 17 the use, wear and tear, on the equipment? 18 Increase the maintenance? 19 F. CRAIG LOTZ: It's immaterial. 20 I mean, if it's 3 times a day, versus, you 21 know, twice a day, 10 times a day, you know, people 22 have used these devices now, they'll be -- they'll 23 blow into it 30, 40, 50 times a day. 24 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Do you have statistics 25 on malfunction? 1 F. CRAIG LOTZ: Don't have -- no, I do not 2 have statistics on that. 3 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I'm sorry, go ahead. 4 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: Could I ask you a 5 question? 6 F. CRAIG LOTZ: Sure. 7 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: You said that, as 8 long as the brake pedal is pushed once every 9 20 minutes or so, that means that you don't have to 10 stop and do a rolling test, or pull over, or 11 anything like that; right? 12 What is that telling the system, just that 13 the brake pedal is pushed once every 20 minutes? 14 F. CRAIG LOTZ: Well, again, that's an 15 option, Assemblyman. 16 That would be the event that you want to 17 prevent students from seeing the driver provide a 18 sample, or, eliminate the driver from being 19 distracted, providing a sample. 20 This would enable one to assume that the 21 driver is, on the road, he or she is not consuming 22 alcohol. 23 So, you know, that it's not being required to 24 do that on a regular basis. 25 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: Okay. And the other 1 question I had is: 2 I noticed in your last page, you say, 3 "emergency-override procedure." 4 F. CRAIG LOTZ: Yeah. 5 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: 6 If a malfunction, then a supervisor can 7 override it, using the key, but, the malfunction 8 occurs out on the road someplace. 9 I don't understand. 10 F. CRAIG LOTZ: Sure. 11 If that were to occur; so, let's say, a 12 driver had turned the vehicle off. For some reason, 13 the device malfunctioned, and they could not start 14 the bus, a supervisor could come out and provide the 15 key -- 16 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: Oh, meet them. 17 Okay, I got you. 18 F. CRAIG LOTZ: Right. 19 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: And you said that the 20 cost, the purchase price for a school bus version, 21 is $1,800. 22 F. CRAIG LOTZ: We have different -- 23 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: And a monthly, I 24 guess, installation service is another $150; right? 25 F. CRAIG LOTZ: We have options. 1 There is a -- the installation to initially 2 install the device, with a key switch, is 3 approximately $150. 4 We have a lease option. The device can be 5 leased for $75 per month; 6 Or, it can be purchased, for a one-time 7 basis, for $1,800. 8 Correct. 9 As far as the calibration, it's -- we suggest 10 it every 90 days. 11 There's a $25 charge for the calibration 12 service, on a 90-day basis. 13 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: Okay, so you have the 14 option to buy it at $1,800, or lease it at -- what 15 did you say the amount was? 16 F. CRAIG LOTZ: $75. 17 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: $75 per month. 18 And then you have an installation cost of 19 $150? 20 F. CRAIG LOTZ: Correct. 21 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: And then, maintenance 22 charge, or software monitoring, $25. 23 Okay. 24 F. CRAIG LOTZ: So for the first year, with 25 installation, you're looking at approximately 1 $1,100, with the maintenance and the installation, 2 if they lease it. 3 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: For the first year. 4 F. CRAIG LOTZ: For the first year. 5 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: Well, that would be 6 just about every year, wouldn't it -- well, no -- 7 F. CRAIG LOTZ: Well, you wouldn't have -- 8 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: No, the $150 is the 9 only thing that you don't have again; right? 10 F. CRAIG LOTZ: Correct. 11 Correct. So you're looking at, about, yeah, 12 just under $1,000. 13 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: Per year. Okay. 14 Thank you very much. 15 ASSEMBLYMAN MONTESANO: Hi. 16 You talked about the cut-off switch. 17 Other than that, is it possible for the 18 driver, in any way, to override or bypass the 19 system? 20 F. CRAIG LOTZ: Not without it being evident 21 on the report. 22 If they were to unplug the device, that would 23 show as a -- as a violation, or a failure, so that 24 would be noted on the reports. 25 ASSEMBLYMAN MONTESANO: Okay. 1 And is it possible that another person could 2 start the vehicle for the driver? 3 How would you avoid that? 4 F. CRAIG LOTZ: Sure. 5 In an unsupervised environment, where the 6 driver takes the bus home, yeah. 7 ASSEMBLYMAN MONTESANO: But said that's 8 possible? 9 F. CRAIG LOTZ: That's possible, in an 10 unsupervised approach, yes. 11 ASSEMBLYMAN MONTESANO: All right. Thank 12 you. 13 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: Just one more thing 14 that I forgot to ask. 15 You said there were many -- Senator Fuschillo 16 asked you, Do you have a lot of clients or 17 customers? or whatever. 18 Do you have school bus clients? 19 F. CRAIG LOTZ: We don't. 20 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: In the country, do 21 you know of any school buses that do it in the 22 country, anyplace? 23 F. CRAIG LOTZ: That's a great question. 24 We've participated in a school bus conference 25 in Reno, Nevada, about three years ago, and had some 1 interest. 2 I personally contacted superintendents across 3 the country where there have been alcohol-related 4 accidents. And it seems to be -- it doesn't seem to 5 be a priority. 6 It's unfortunate. 7 To my knowledge, right. 8 ASSEMBLYMAN MCDONOUGH: Thank you. 9 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you, Craig, and 10 David. 11 I've read your testimony. 12 I'm not going to -- if you want to read it, 13 it's fine, but I -- 14 DAVID KELLY: There were a couple of points I 15 just wanted to make. 16 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Yeah. 17 DAVID KELLY: I wasn't going to read it. 18 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: I did want to ask you a 19 question. 20 You're the executive director of the 21 coalition. 22 Are you -- is that a statewide coalition? 23 DAVID KELLY: That -- the coalition is a 24 national coalition. It's made up of the three -- 25 three of the largest manufacturers in the country. 1 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: So I've seen -- you know, 2 you mentioned France, also, has a requirement for 3 school buses as well. 4 What's the trend throughout the country? 5 Is this a discussion here in the 6 United States? 7 DAVID KELLY: This is -- this trend, I 8 wouldn't call it "a trend" in the United States. 9 I would call it, this is more of an 10 international discussion. 11 We have, in France, and in Finland, in 12 Sweden, there were some pilot programs, in Russia. 13 There's a little bit more of a stronger 14 oversight in the 15 commercial-vehicle/commercial-driver market than 16 there is here in the United States. 17 So, to my knowledge, this is really the only 18 legislative body in the country that is talking 19 about this on school buses. 20 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay. 21 Craig, these are your devices? 22 F. CRAIG LOTZ: Yes. 23 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: This is the standard, 24 where you blow in? 25 F. CRAIG LOTZ: Correct. 1 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: All right, we've seen 2 that in [unintelligible]. 3 Could you talk about this? 4 F. CRAIG LOTZ: Yeah, sure. 5 That's just a personal breathalyzer, one that 6 can be used for, you know, personal use. 7 We have customers that are not prohibited 8 from drinking; just not allowed to drink and drive. 9 So they'll purchase that, to test themselves in the 10 morning, you know, prior to blowing into this 11 device. 12 If they pass that, they will use that. 13 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: You know, we heard -- and 14 I'll asked this of both of you -- many excellent 15 suggestions here today, and recommendations. 16 Is there an impediment to -- and you may have 17 answered this when I had stepped out. 18 We've heard of distractions and impediments 19 that may be caused because of the installation of 20 this. 21 What has been your experience with the 22 thousands that you have out there? 23 DAVID KELLY: Chairman Fuschillo, in a former 24 life, I was also the acting administrator of the 25 National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration, 1 when we started the whole discussion on distraction. 2 And there has not been any real scientific 3 research done on the basis of, you know, sort of, 4 distraction with the devices, and distraction on the 5 road. 6 However, there is -- there are millions and 7 millions of real-world tests that have been 8 performed with the devices, and we have not seen the 9 level of distraction. 10 And that goes into many different reasons, 11 but, the level of distraction, and the criticisms of 12 the devices, of causing distractions, they just have 13 not -- we have enough real-world experience to know 14 that that's not an issue. 15 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: How much maintenance is 16 required of a system like this? 17 F. CRAIG LOTZ: That would somewhat depend 18 upon the states requiring it. 19 There are, certain states require a 20 calibration service every 30 days. 21 Our experience has been that that's -- to 22 maintain its calibration to a high degree of 23 accuracy, over 120 days. 24 But I would say, in this environment, we 25 would suggest a 90-day calibration period, just to 1 be safe. 2 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: So once every 90 days? 3 F. CRAIG LOTZ: Correct. 4 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay. 5 F. CRAIG LOTZ: And as far as acceptance, you 6 know, the customers that we have, those that are -- 7 there's a small percent of the mandated population 8 that dread it. 9 I mean, nobody wants [unintelligible] over. 10 This is not something people aspire to have in their 11 vehicles. 12 But, those that recognize it's a means 13 that -- enabling them to drive their children to 14 school, drive to work, go to the grocery store, are 15 law-abiding citizens, and use it properly. 16 Those that purchase it on a voluntary basis 17 say: You know what? I want to keep myself safe, 18 and my family safe. 19 And so, they embrace, and it's a -- very 20 successful. 21 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: And the monitoring is 22 done via computer, back to your offices? 23 DAVID KELLY: What we do -- 24 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Sorry, David. 25 F. CRAIG LOTZ: Well, this would be a 1 different environment. 2 We would suggest that the district have a -- 3 calibration equipment on site, and we would train 4 the personnel on how to perform that on a 90-day 5 cycle. 6 The option would be, to have us to do it, Or 7 have a contractor. 8 We have a partnership with a company that has 9 deployed the Child-Check System on 68,000 buses, 10 nationwide. So, they're very adept in doing this on 11 a school -- in a school bus environment. 12 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Okay. 13 David? 14 DAVID KELLY: There are a variety of business 15 models that you could use. And you can look to what 16 they've done in France and Finland, and other 17 places, too. 18 And what Craig just mentioned is a very 19 viable one as well. 20 I did want to say that there have been 21 some -- there's been some discussion about the 22 reliability of the devices today. 23 And I would say this: 24 This body -- the Senate, and New York State 25 Legislature -- when you debated Leandra's Law, you 1 had these same discussions come up about the 2 reliability of the devices. 3 They were dismissed then. 4 The devices are reliable. 5 You're not going to have a positive test 6 because you have Listerine. 7 A lot of the manufacturers have 8 anti-circumvention devices, so somebody who is not 9 trained on the device can't take the test. 10 There are a bunch of thing that have been put 11 into place in the devices, over time, that will take 12 all of these things into consideration. 13 So, you have a policy decision in front of 14 you, and you should be making a policy decision 15 based on what's good and what's best for the safety 16 of the children of New York. 17 It shouldn't be based on whether somebody is 18 thinking that the devices are reliable or not, 19 because that's been proven wrong, and they are 20 reliable. 21 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Any other questions? 22 Thank you very much, gentlemen. I appreciate 23 your testimony. 24 Craig, we'll make sure this is returned to 25 you in the back. 1 We're going to call the next two speakers up 2 together: 3 Chris Mistron is the Traffic Safety/STOP-DWI 4 Coordinator, Nassau County Traffic Safety; 5 And, also, Al Belbol, Jr., who's the 6 co-president of the Levy-Lakeside Elementary School 7 PTA. 8 Good afternoon, Chris; 9 And, good afternoon, Al. 10 CHRISTOPHER MISTRON: Good afternoon. 11 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you very much for 12 your patience, and being here. 13 CHRISTOPHER MISTRON: No problem. 14 Legislators, I was asked to come here today 15 to speak, basically, about the DWI occurrences that 16 have been with the bus companies. 17 But, the history of DWIs, that since 1982, 18 when the inception of the New York State STOP-DWI 19 legislation established countywide programs 20 throughout New York State, Nassau County has worked 21 tirelessly in enforcing the DWI statutes, educating 22 the population on the dangers of drinking and 23 driving, prosecuting those individuals that have 24 shown to ignore the safety of their fellow citizens 25 by impaired driving, and follow-up by those 1 convicted, with probation. 2 Over the past five years, Nassau County has 3 averaged more than 3,000 DWI arrests a year, with 4 30 fatalities as a result of the presence of alcohol 5 or drugs. 6 We have seen legislation, as addressed, 7 working to keep our roadways safe from the raising 8 of the drinking age from 18 to 19, and then, 9 subsequently, to the current 21. 10 In those changes, Nassau County saw a 11 decrease in the "under 21" representation of our DWI 12 activity, from 20 percent, to as low as 8 percent 13 per year. 14 We have seen an improvement in public 15 awareness of DWI and its effects on society: the 16 designated driver, the increased care of friends and 17 family to prevent the tragedy caused by DWI. 18 Organizations, such as MADD, SADD, 19 DEDICATED [ph.], and others, have been striving to 20 fight, and educate. 21 We have seen legislation to shore up 22 loopholes that impaired drivers have used to avoid 23 prosecution. 24 Roadway improvements through engineering, 25 safer cars and features, introduced to save lives 1 have been advanced. 2 From the seatbelt to the air bag, from the 3 child seat to the booster seat, we have designated 4 methods -- or, designed methods to keep occupants of 5 vehicles safe in the event of crashes. 6 From the oldest to the youngest of these 7 occupants, methods have been designed to keep them 8 safe; laws have been enacted to keep drivers and 9 their occupants safe; but safety can only be assured 10 with the proper operation of the motor vehicle. 11 The most vulnerable of vehicle occupants are 12 children. 13 Adults have the opportunity of making 14 decisions on their own safety. 15 We want to think that individuals that are 16 impaired will not drive, but, sadly, that is not 17 always the case. 18 Oftentimes others may enter the vehicle with 19 impaired drivers at their own peril. 20 We have seen deadly crashes on the southern 21 state in the past year, where an unlicensed, 22 impaired driver caused the death of four occupants, 23 but these occupants were not children. 24 They had the ability to decide to enter that 25 car. 1 Leandra's Law was enacted because children do 2 not have that ability; the ability to recognize the 3 situations that they are in. 4 They are innocent victims in horrific crashes 5 caused by negligence and indifference. 6 When the children boarded the bus leaving 7 St. Edward the Confessor school, they boarded 8 confidently of the safety of a yellow school bus. 9 There was no anticipation that the driver 10 would be impaired and place them in danger. 11 There are places children feel secure: their 12 homes, their schools, and the school bus. 13 We, as a society, place our trust in 14 individuals that have contact with our children. 15 In the mornings, we walk our children to the 16 bus stop, confident in the driver's ability to keep 17 our children safe. 18 It's not a bad thing to expect drivers not to 19 be impaired. 20 School bus drivers in particular have added 21 responsibility of caring and carrying innocence. 22 For that reason, traffic safety in the 23 Nassau County STOP-DWI encourages consideration of a 24 requirement that school buses have the ignition 25 interlock as part of its standard equipment. 1 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Mr. Belbol. 2 AL BELBOL, JR.: My name is Al Belbol, Jr. I 3 am the PTA co-president of Levy-Lakeside Elementary 4 School in Merrick. 5 Senators, Assemblymen, ladies and gentlemen, 6 I come before you today as a parent of three 7 children, two of which are elementary-school age. 8 I am also co-president of the 9 Norman J. Levy-Lakeside Elementary School 10 Parent-Teacher Association. 11 These two roles in my life are not something 12 I can turn on and off like a switch. 13 With every fiber of my existence, I am a 14 proud and protecting father. 15 As PTA co-president, I have no greater 16 concern than the health, welfare, and safety of the 17 students at my children's school. 18 As any parent wants, I want to know, that 19 when I put my child on a school bus, that everything 20 that can be done to keep them safe has been done. 21 The proposed bill before us, mandating school 22 bus ignition interlocks, is essential for child 23 safety. 24 Every school-aged child is affected by school 25 bus safety. Even if your child does not ride a bus 1 to and from school, all children, at some point, 2 take a school bus for extracurricular activities or 3 class trips. 4 As a parent, I want the peace of mind that my 5 child will be as safe as possible when they ride a 6 school bus. 7 By and large, school bus drivers are 8 well-trained professionals who operate school buses 9 in a safe manner, but, unfortunately, some 10 individuals in the recent past have failed to do so. 11 All professions have some degree of bad 12 apples, and bus drivers are no different in this 13 way. 14 That reality leads to us seek solutions to 15 protect our children. 16 Without this commonsense legislation, we, as 17 a society, are not doing our best to protect our 18 children. 19 Every parent I have spoken to in the 20 Norman J. Levy-Lakeside PTA is firmly in support of 21 this proposed legislation. 22 Perhaps it just coincidence, but the 23 late-Senator Norman Levy was a champion of 24 transportation safety, and a legend as a public 25 servant. 1 I have a great comfort and pride to be 2 representing the PTA of the school named for 3 Senator Levy, and now speaking before you to support 4 legislation he would also be championing. 5 I can only hope that your efforts to make 6 this bill a law will soon become a reality. 7 In the same manner in which Senator Levy was 8 a pioneer in the first seatbelt law, this 9 ignition-interlock law will become the standard 10 throughout our nation. 11 This proactive legislation will save lives 12 for generations to come. 13 As stated in the justification for this bill, 14 there have been six incidents of bus drivers driving 15 drunk or alcohol-impaired in New York State in the 16 last three years. 17 These are six incidents that we know of 18 because they were reported by the media. 19 How many more times were bus drivers driving 20 our children drunk or alcohol-impaired and never 21 went detected? 22 No matter the amount of times this 23 acceptable -- unacceptable situation has happened, 24 as a parent, one fact rings true: 25 Any time it has happened until now, we, as a 1 society, have let our children down. 2 We have failed to do all we can do with laws 3 and technology to protect our greatest asset: our 4 children, our future. 5 We have the technology available. Now we 6 need to enact this law, to do the right thing, and 7 to do our best to keep our children safe. 8 I want to thank for your time today, and the 9 opportunity to express my views on such important 10 legislation. 11 SENATOR FUSCHILLO: Thank you very much, Al; 12 And, Chris, thank you very much. 13 Any questions from the panel? 14 I want to conclude by saying: 15 In my opening statement, I said we would get 16 testimony from concerned parents, and individuals in 17 the field of law enforcement, education, 18 transportation, and technology. 19 And we've received testimony in support for 20 the legislation, we've received testimony opposing 21 the legislation, but, we've also received 22 suggestions and recommendations for future 23 legislation, and ideas to strengthen state laws, 24 with the common goal, I believe, that we all have, 25 it's to protect the children that board the school 1 buses every single day. 2 And that's the commonality that is extremely 3 important, but was well-received. 4 So, gentlemen, thank you very much for your 5 testimony. 6 Those that are still here that have 7 testified, I appreciate it. 8 And those that came just to hear the 9 Committee hearing, I thank you very much for being 10 here today. 11 And to my colleagues as well, thank you very 12 much. 13 We will proceed now, and analyze all the 14 testimony that we have received. 15 And we will proceed with legislation that 16 will, hopefully, go through the Transportation 17 Committee this year, but to take all of the comments 18 into consideration as we proceed. 19 So, thank you very much, and this concludes 20 our hearing. 21 Thank you. 22 (Whereupon, at approximately 12:27 p.m., 23 the public hearing held before the New York State 24 Senate Standing Committee on Transportation 25 concluded, and adjourned.)