Public Forum: Richmond County Panel Discussion on Staten Island'S Heroin Epidemic

1 BEFORE THE NEW YORK STATE SENATE MAJORITY COALITION

JOINT TASK FORCE ON HEROIN AND OPIOID ADDICTION 2 ------------------------------------------------------ 3 PUBLIC FORUM: RICHMOND COUNTY 4 PANEL DISCUSSION ON STATEN ISLAND'S HEROIN EPIDEMIC 5 ------------------------------------------------------ 6

Jewish Community Center of 7 Staten Island Auditorium

1297 Arthur Kill Road 8 Staten Island, New York 10312 9 May 2, 2014

1:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m. 10 11 12 PRESENT: 13

Senator Philip M. Boyle, Task Force Chairman 14 Chairman of the Senate Committee on Alcoholism and

Drug Abuse 15 16 Senator Andrew J. Lanza, Task Force Forum Moderator

Member of the Joint Task Force 17

Senator Diane J. Savino 18 Member of the Joint Task Force 19 Assemblyman Michael Cusick 20 21 22 23 24 25 1

INTRODUCTIONS - ROUNDTABLE PARTICIPANTS: PAGE 16 2

Boris Natzen 3 Owner

Nate's Pharmacy 4

Dr. Daniel Messina 5 President and CEO

Richmond University Medical Center 6

Dr. Russell Joffe 7 Chair of Psychiatry

Staten Island University Hospital 8

Tony Ferreri 9 President and CEO

Staten Island University Hospital 10

Dr. Hillary Kunins 11 Acting Executive Director Commissioner

for Mental Hygiene 12 New York City Department of Health

and Mental Hygiene 13

Diane Arnett 14 President and CEO

Community Health Action of Staten Island 15

James Fiore 16 Resident of Dongan Hills, Staten Island

Resident of Community Health Action 17 Outpatient, Student of CSI 18 Candace Crupi

Barry Crupi 19 Parents 20 Brian Hunt

Parent 21 Resident of Princes Bay 22 Luke Nasta

Executive Director 23 Camelot Counseling 24 Jacqueline Fiore

Executive Director 25 YMCA Counseling Service 1

SPEAKERS (Continued): PAGE 2

Adrienne Abbate 3 Executive Director

Staten Island Partnership for 4 Community Wellness, and Project Director

for the Tackling Youth Substance Abuse 5 Initiative. 6 Gary Butchen

President and CEO 7 Bridge Back to Life Center 8 Edward Delatorre

Assistant Chief, Commanding Officer of the 9 Uniformed Force, NYPD, Staten Island 10 Dominick Dorazio

Captain 11 Commanding Officer, Staten Island Narcotics 12 Karen Varriale

Assistant District Attorney 13 Representing Dan Donovan and the

Richmond County District Attorney's Office 14

James J. Hunt 15 Acting Special Agent in charge of

New York Field Division, 16 Drug Enforcement Administration 17

PERSONAL STORIES PAGE 19 18

START OF PANELIST PARTICIPATION PAGE 40 19

AUDIENCE PARTICIPATION AND Q&A PAGE 52 20 21 22 ---oOo--- 23 24 25 1 SENATOR BOYLE: If everyone could stand just 2 for the Pledge of Allegiance, please. 3 (All present recite, as follows:) 4 "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the 5 United States of America and to the republic for 6 which it stands, one nation under God, 7 indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." 8 SENATOR LANZA: Good afternoon, everyone. 9 My name is Andrew Lanza, and I have the 10 privilege of serving the people of Staten Island in 11 the New York State Senate. 12 Before we begin the program, I would just 13 like to introduce the Chairman. 14 This is, as you know, we're here to meet as 15 part of the New York State Senate Task Force on 16 Heroin and Opioid Addiction. 17 Senator Phil Boyle from Long Island is the 18 Chairman of this Task Force, and he's been gracious 19 enough to come out -- come out here to 20 Staten Island, from Long Island, today, so let me 21 first introduce him. 22 [Applause.] 23 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you, Senator Lanza. 24 And I would like -- also like to thank 25 another member of the Heroin Task Force, 1 Senator Savino. Thank you very much. 2 And, Assemblyman Cusick and 3 Assemblywoman Malliotakis, and thank -- welcome -- 4 it's a nice welcome to be here on Staten Island. 5 And thank you for the Jewish Community Center 6 for hosting this. 7 This is the ninth of 17 forums facing this 8 heroin and opioid epidemic we're looking at across 9 the state. 10 What we're specifically asking for -- and we 11 have a distinguished panel here, and I'm looking 12 forward to hearing their ideas -- focusing on the 13 areas of prevention, treatment, and law enforcement. 14 So we have a panel here that can give -- are, 15 basically, experts in each of those areas. 16 And for those of you in the audience, we'll 17 open it up for questions a little bit later. You 18 can write down a question. 19 And, whether you're a law-enforcement 20 official, an educator, a treatment provider, a 21 family member, an addict -- we've had numerous 22 testimony from each -- to say, "If I had an 23 opportunity to change a couple laws in 24 New York State, to help us combat this heroin 25 epidemic," please give us the ideas. That's what 1 we're looking for. 2 The Task Force is going to have a report due 3 June 1st, and we're going to have subsequent 4 legislation passed in the State Senate; and so we're 5 looking for ideas. 6 We're looking for a great exchange of ideas 7 today. 8 Thank you, Senator. 9 SENATOR LANZA: So, very quickly, we're here 10 to listen. 11 Let me just say, no one here needs to -- 12 doesn't know how widespread and devastating this 13 problem of opioid addiction is, both here in 14 Staten Island and across the state. 15 It is a national epidemic. 16 In a 10-year period, leading up to 2012, in 17 New York City alone, 10,000 of our neighbors -- 18 brothers and sister, mothers and fathers -- 19 10,000 residents of New York City lost their lives 20 to opioid addiction and overdose. 21 "10,000." 22 When we hear of deaths occurring as a result 23 of other causes, they're often national debates, 24 there's discussion from the White House, from the 25 Attorney General, from every elected official across 1 the country. 2 We don't believe enough is being done to deal 3 with this problem that is taking so many of our 4 friends' and neighbors' and family members' lives. 5 On Staten Island alone, over the last year 6 and a half, more than 130 people lost their lives. 7 Just think about that: 130 of our neighbors 8 lost their lives. 9 More people died in New York City over the 10 last 10 years from opioid addiction than did in the 11 terrorist attacks of 9/11. 12 This is a situation, this is an epidemic, 13 that is affecting all of us, every one of us. 14 The gateway, interestingly enough, to heroin 15 addiction, as reported by a story in 16 "The Washington Post," 80 percent of all people who 17 try heroin first tried a prescription drug. 18 And, so, the availability and access to those 19 drugs has really become a gateway to the heroin 20 epidemic that we now see raging across the state, 21 the city, and the country. 22 And so, as Senator Boyle stated, the purpose 23 here is to bring stakeholders, experts, those who 24 are affected by this problem, together, so that we 25 can really begin to turn back the tide of this 1 epidemic. 2 The first step here, and the reason why 3 Assemblyman Cusick is here -- he's not in the 4 Senate, although he does live in my district, so 5 I'll pay attention to whatever signatures he starts 6 gathering -- but the reason he's here, he sits here, 7 too, as a government expert in terms of, given the 8 fact that's wrote the I-STOP Bill in the Assembly. 9 My good friend and colleague from 10 Staten Island, also representing parts of Brooklyn, 11 Senator Savino is a member of this Task Force. And, 12 I can't tell you how many conversations we've had 13 over the last several years, in terms of people we 14 know, conversations we've had. 15 This is -- this problem is reaching into 16 every single neighborhood, every single house, and, 17 enough is enough. We've got to do something about 18 it. 19 We've got, I think, the right group of people 20 here on Staten Island who have the expertise, the 21 commitment, the dedication, and the wisdom to come 22 together, to really start to turn this thing around. 23 So with that, I'm going to introduce 24 Senator Savino. 25 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you, Senator Lanza. 1 [Applause.] 2 SENATOR SAVINO: I want to say a special 3 thank you to Senator Boyle, the Chair of this 4 substance-abuse committee in the New York State 5 Senate, and, of course, my colleagues on both sides 6 of me, Assemblyman Cusick and Senator Lanza. 7 And then, of course, all of the experts that 8 are here today, those of you in the audience that 9 are service providers, those of you who are family 10 members, those of you in law enforcement, you've 11 been dealing with this issue for a very long time. 12 You know, 20 years ago, 25 years ago, when 13 I was a caseworker working in the city's 14 child-welfare system, the vast majority of children 15 that we were taking away from parents were children 16 born with a positive toxicity. The majority of them 17 were born positive tox to cocaine. 18 The city was in the midst of a crack epidemic 19 then. 20 Drug trends come and go. You know, the drug 21 of choice that becomes the most abused has a 22 tendency to go through stages. 23 But there is one drug that has always been 24 with us, and one drug that always comes back no 25 matter what, and that is heroin. 1 So last -- two years ago, when we began the 2 fight to tackle the opioid-abuse and 3 prescription-drug problem that was led by these 4 two gentlemen on either side of me who wrote the 5 I-STOP law, a landmark piece of legislation, you 6 could almost predict, though, that we would have to 7 tackle this other issue, because these drugs that 8 young people are abusing now, those prescription 9 drugs that Senator Lanza talked about, they are far 10 more addictive than anyone ever could have imagined. 11 25 years ago, no one could have imagined a 12 thing called a "super-opioid." 13 No one could have seen the level of addiction 14 that Oxycontin could produce in people. And that's 15 what we're fighting against. 16 We're trying to find a way to restrict those 17 dangerous drugs, and we're trying to find a way to 18 prevent the next wave. 19 Heroin has always been with us, but it's more 20 dangerous now because of the level of addiction 21 that's out there, and the young people who have been 22 exposed to it. 23 And not just young people, old people, too 24 who have been exposed it to, because they've been 25 given a prescription for a drug that no one could 1 ever have imagined could be so addictive. 2 So, this, what we're doing today is so 3 important: Not just examining the trends, not just 4 talking about the effect, but also, trying to come 5 up with solutions, because this is going to 6 continue. 7 Until and -- unless and until we figure out 8 how to cure addiction, and I really wish those 9 pharmaceutical companies that spend so much money 10 researching and developing addictive drugs would 11 spend a little bit of that money on researching 12 addiction. 13 [Applause.] 14 SENATOR SAVINO: Maybe they could come up 15 with a pill that cures that. 16 But until they do, our work will not be done. 17 So I want to thank all of you for coming, and 18 participating. 19 And I want to a special shout-out to my good 20 friend, former 21 Councilman Dominic M. Riccia, Jr. [ph.], who is here 22 in the front row. 23 He and I worked together in Coney Island for 24 years, where there are several drug programs that 25 struggled with the issues of addiction. And heroin 1 is prevalent right there, too, so he knows what it's 2 like to represent people who are trying to fight 3 against this scourge. 4 Thank you, everyone. 5 [Applause.] 6 SENATOR BOYLE: Assemblyman Cusick, would you 7 like to say a couple of words? 8 ASSEMBLYMAN CUSICK: Thank you. 9 Thank you. 10 Thank you, Senator Boyle, for coming to 11 Staten Island. 12 I just want to welcome Phil. 13 Phil is a Senator now, but Phil did come from 14 the State Assembly, so I want to take credit for 15 Phil being a member of the State Assembly. 16 I feel a little outnumbered up here. 17 But, I just want to thank Senator Lanza and 18 Senator Savino for making sure that this Task Force 19 had a meeting here on Staten Island, because it's 20 very important. 21 Many of the folks in the audience, sitting 22 out, we know each other's faces and names. We know 23 each other from fighting the good fight when it 24 comes to the epidemic with prescription drugs, with 25 heroin, with substance abuse. 1 And it is a team effort, and it is a 2 community that has to come together, to make sure 3 that we can fight this together. 4 You know, and part of this is, there was 5 mention of the reason why I'm up here is that, I was 6 the author in Assembly of the I-STOP legislation, 7 and teamed up with Senator Lanza to get that passed. 8 That started with, not as big as this 9 roundtable, but it started as a roundtable. 10 It started as a roundtable at the South Shore 11 YMCA, about, in 2010 or 2011. And, it was a smaller 12 group, but it was from discussions of community 13 groups. It was from discussions of counselors. It 14 was from discussions of medical professionals. It 15 was discussions from our law enforcement. 16 This is an issue that is fought on many 17 fronts. 18 You have the enforcement front, you have the 19 legislative front, and you have the treatment front. 20 And there are many other fronts to fight this 21 epidemic. 22 The -- you think about I-STOP, is that -- 23 the numbers aren't out yet, but, we are very 24 confident that it is working, and that it is cutting 25 down on doctor shopping, and that it is cutting down 1 on the availability of the prescription drugs. 2 And I do have to say, that this man sitting 3 next to me, Mr. Luke Nasta, had said it at our 4 first roundtable that Andrew and I had at the 5 South Shore YMCA; he said, that: You know, we'll be 6 successful in this, but things with heroin are 7 still -- they're on the rise as we speak. 8 And the heroin issue was always there when we 9 tackled the prescription drug. And it was all part 10 of this. 11 And although we cut down on the -- we focused 12 on the enforcement and we focused on the doctor 13 shopping. 14 We always had in the back of our heads that 15 the next step would be the treatment, and providing 16 the proper treatment for those who had this 17 addiction to heroin. 18 So I want to just thank you, Senator Lanza, 19 Senator Savino, and Senator Boyle, for having me as 20 part of this panel, and I look forward to the 21 discussions today. 22 Thank you. 23 SENATOR LANZA: And before we turn this 24 over -- 25 Thank you, Assemblyman. 1 Before we turn this back over to the 2 Chairman, Senator Boyle, let me tell you how this is 3 going to work today. 4 We're going to hear from a number of 5 categories of panelists. We're going to hear from 6 some of our neighbors, parents, and even someone 7 who's fighting addiction. 8 So, we're going to hear from those who are 9 personally affected. 10 We're going to hear from public-health 11 experts, from both hospitals here, and others, here 12 on Staten Island. 13 We're going to from our law enforcement who 14 are really at the front lines in terms of some of 15 the aspects of this epidemic. 16 We're going to hear from, as 17 Assemblyman Cusick just mentioned, folks like 18 Luke Nasta, experts on recovery and treatment. 19 And, finally, there will be a conclusion. 20 So, Senator Boyle. 21 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you. 22 SENATOR LANZA: And I just have to do this, 23 but, someone who helped work with us on the 24 I-STOP Bill is here, Former Assemblyman Lou Tobacco. 25 I want to acknowledge his presence. 1 [Applause.] 2 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you very much, Senator. 3 And, now, if we could just have the panelists 4 briefly introduce yourself and where you're from. 5 We can go around, and we can make statements 6 a little bit later, but, just, we want to know where 7 you're from and your current position. 8 BORIS NATZEN: Boris Natzen, the owner of 9 Nate's Pharmacy. 10 DR. DANIEL J. MESSINA: Dan Messina, 11 president and CEO of Richmond University Medical 12 Center. 13 DR. RUSSELL JOFFE: Russell Joffe, chair of 14 Psychiatry at Staten Island University Hospital. 15 ANTHONY C. FERRERI: Tony Ferreri, president 16 and CEO of Staten Island University Hospital. 17 DIANE ARNETT: Diane Arnett, president and 18 CEO, Community Health Action of Staten Island. 19 JAMES FIORE, JR.: James Fiore, resident of 20 Dongan Hills, Staten Island. And I'm a resident of 21 Community Health Action Outpatient, student of CSI. 22 CANDACE CRUPI: Candace Crupi. I'm 23 Jonathan Crupi's mom. 24 BARRY CRUPI: Barry Crupi, Jonathan's father. 25 BRIAN HUNT: My name is Brian Hunt, and I'm a 1 broken-hearted father. I'm from Princes Bay. 2 Two months ago today, I lost my son to a 3 heroin overdose. 4 LUKE NASTA: Luke Nasta, executive director 5 of Camelot Counseling. 6 [Applause.] 7 JACQUELINE FIORE: Jackie Fiore, executive 8 director of the YMCA Counseling Service. 9 [Applause.] 10 ADRIENNE ABBATE: Adrienne Abbate, 11 executive director of the Staten Island Partnership 12 for Community Wellness, and the project director for 13 the Tackling Youth Substance Abuse Initiative. 14 [Applause.] 15 GARY BUTCHEN: I'm Gary Butchen, the 16 president and CEO of Bridge Back To Life Center. 17 We're a network of outpatient programs here 18 on Staten Island, Brooklyn, Manhattan, and 19 Long Island. 20 [Applause.] 21 ASST. CHIEF EDWARD DELATORRE: Assistant 22 Chief Edward Delatorre, commanding officer of the 23 uniformed force, NYPD, Staten Island. 24 CAPTAIN DOMINICK DORAZIO: Captain 25 Dominick Dorazio, commanding officer of 1 Staten Island Narcotics. 2 KAREN VARRIALE: Karen Varriale, 3 assistant district attorney, representing Dan 4 Donovan and the Richmond County DA's Office. 5 JAMES J. HUNT: James Hunt. I'm the acting 6 special agent in charge of New York Field Division, 7 Drug Enforcement Administration. 8 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you very much, ladies 9 and gentlemen, and we look forward to your input. 10 You know, when we hear a lot about this 11 heroin epidemic, as Senator Lanza said, it's a 12 nationwide, and certainly a statewide problem in 13 New York. 14 And coming from Long Island myself, we always 15 heard about a particular area of difficulty in -- 16 with this heroin epidemic, and that was 17 Staten Island. 18 We have a big problem on Long Island, but 19 Staten Island was really a center of the tragedy of 20 this epidemic. 21 And, we hear a lot about statistics and 22 numbers, but, these are human faces behind that 23 story. There's losses, there's personal tragedies. 24 And that's why we asked some family members 25 to accompany us today, to tell us about their story. 1 And I would like to introduce 2 Mr. Brian Hunt. 3 BRIAN HUNT: Thank you. 4 Like I said, two months ago, I lost my son to 5 a heroin addiction. And needless to say, my family 6 is devastated. 7 We found out the hard way, the first time my 8 son overdosed. 9 And we did what most parents do, is we wanted 10 to keep it quiet. 11 And one of the reasons is -- that we're not 12 hearing a lot about this epidemic, is that a lot of 13 parents want to turn around and keep it hidden 14 because they're embarrassed and ashamed. 15 Now, let me ask a question here: 16 Who in this audience knows someone that had 17 passed away from a drug addiction? Raise your hand. 18 Keep your hands up, and keep them up high. 19 I want this panel to look at this, and let 20 this be the face of what this drug addiction is 21 doing. 22 Not me. I'm a father, that's all. I'm not 23 an expert. 24 But I will tell you -- 25 You can put your hands down. 1 I will tell you that this has to be looked at 2 at three fronts: 3 The first front is alcohol. 4 Understand, that this all starts with 5 alcohol, underaged drinking. They get the liquor 6 from the home. They get the liquor from their 7 friends. 8 When the liquor is not available, someone 9 turns around and says: Hey, remember when my mom 10 hurt her back? The doctor gave her these pills, 11 they're prescription. They made my mother feel 12 great. It's from the doctor. Take one. Take two. 13 Next thing you know they're addicted to the 14 pills. 15 They're available; they're in your medicine 16 cabinets. That's where they get them from. 17 Now they have to go purchase them. 18 Now you have no more money. You can't afford 19 20, 40 dollars a pill. 20 What do you do? 21 Someone pretending to be your friend turns 22 around and says to you: Hey, I have some heroin. 23 I do it all the time. Look at me. 24 Meanwhile, he doesn't do it. 25 He says: Take it. It's cheap: $5, $10. 1 They feel great, but you want to know 2 something? Once you put it up your nose or you put 3 it in your arm, that's it. 4 I want everyone to go online and look up 5 "Miss Heroin," M-I-S-S Heroin, and see what that is 6 all about. 7 Because, you read that, that's what -- that 8 was my son, exactly what took place. And it's a 9 look into the future. 10 If you went on vacation, and I said to you, 11 "Let me give you a look at what that vacation will 12 turn out to be," and while you're looking, you're 13 seeing: 14 You went on vacation, everything was nice. 15 You got in your hotel. You got in your car and 16 you're going to the beach. And then, all of a 17 sudden, you saw you got in an accident. And maybe 18 some members of your family did not survive. 19 Would you go on that vacation? Probably not. 20 But if you did go on that vacation, guess 21 what? You wouldn't go down that road where you had 22 that accident. You'd go someplace else. 23 And what is that? You have knowledge. 24 And that's what stops this epidemic, is 25 knowledge. 1 When our children were growing up, when we 2 sent them off to school, or we sent them to the 3 park, what did we tell them? 4 Don't talk to strangers. Don't take anything 5 from a stranger. If someone wants to give you 6 something, yell, scream, tell someone. Tell a 7 teacher, tell a cop, tell the crossing guard, tell a 8 parent. 9 Well, that still holds true today for our 10 older kids, but the problem is, it's not only 11 strangers. The people that are doing and selling 12 drugs could be the people in this front row, the 13 people in the back row, could be somebody on this 14 panel. 15 The people that are doing it are friends and 16 neighbors, and they are hiding in plain sight. 17 I can tell you I just found out, four houses 18 past me, behind me, father and son were selling 19 drugs. They're now not around anymore, but they 20 sold drugs to my son. That's five houses down. 21 So we could be a mother, a father, a sister, 22 a cousin. It's not your typical guy that you could 23 point out, He's a drug addict or a junky. 24 My son wasn't a junky. 25 My son was a good kid. He was trying to make 1 a way for himself. 2 Someone pretending to be his friend gave him 3 something that was bad for him. 4 And young kids today think everybody's their 5 friend. 6 But I can ask this panel and I can ask 7 everyone here: I'll bet you, 2-to-1, you can count 8 your friends on one hand. True friends. 9 And as I told the kids at my son's wake, 10 I said: Listen, if you're a true friend, and you 11 see someone in trouble, say something, do something. 12 If they give you a hard time, go to their parents 13 and tell the parent. "Put the people in the know," 14 as the kids say. Let people know about it. 15 The more people that knew about my son having 16 an addiction, the less people would invite my son to 17 a party where there's going be alcohol. 18 And when my son died, I found out, my son, 19 30 days before he died, he went to a Super Bowl 20 party, and had a drink. And 30 days later my son 21 overdosed on heroin. 22 So, I don't want you ever standing here with 23 me. I don't even want to be here. I would rather 24 go back three months and do something different. 25 When my son passed, I was not home. 1 Had I been home, maybe my son would be alive 2 today. But I was taking care of my father-in-law 3 who was supposedly dying at that point in time. 4 Unfortunately, he died ten days after that, 5 so we had a double-whammy in the life. 6 And I never told him about my son's 7 addiction. 8 But, we have to let people know. We have to 9 get people help. 10 My son went to the Y. They helped him 11 tremendously. 12 Adrienne from Tackling Youth Substance Abuse, 13 I've been to one of their presentations. 14 Let me tell you something: Get involved with 15 these people. 16 Tackling -- with Adrienne, Tackling Youth 17 Substance Abuse, they'll teach you how to go out in 18 the world and talk to people, and explain to people 19 what this drug addiction is doing to this island. 20 But you have to get involved. 21 And you have to be a parent. Don't -- you 22 don't want to be my best -- I'm your best friend to 23 your son or your daughter. 24 Be a parent, do what you're supposed to: 25 Protect them, guide them. 1 And I will tell you, as far as, if you really 2 want to know what we need to do, if I know I had a 3 snake in my house, and it was going to hurt my 4 family, what's the best way for me to get rid of 5 that snake? I'm going to cut its head off. 6 These people here need to stop the influx of 7 drugs onto this island. 8 The people that are selling the drugs, you 9 need to have a stiffer law. People selling drugs, 10 don't slap them on the wrist, become a first-time, 11 you know, dealer. 12 A drug dealer and a first-time drug dealer 13 are the same to me. If you sell drugs, in my 14 opinion, you should go to jail forever. 15 And you know what? They say we don't have 16 the room? You have people sitting on death row for 17 20 years. Let's move it along, or build more jails, 18 but you need to get the people off the street. 19 We need to let people know on Staten Island, 20 you sell drugs, eyes are on you. Someone's going to 21 say something. 22 So we need to attack that on three fronts. 23 The treatment, we need to go back to the 24 schools. 25 What happened to having No-Drug Week in 1 schools? 2 These kids are learning about drugs on the 3 streets. 4 Get back in, teach these kids what drugs are 5 about. 6 The more knowledge you have, the better you 7 are prepared to turn around and say: No, sir, 8 I don't want that. I'm not taking that. 9 And understand, the drug dealers and this 10 epidemic does not care how much money you have, 11 where you live, or what job you have. It's going to 12 affect everybody. 13 And I'm sure that -- I'm sure if I asked this 14 panel to raise their hand, they would be able to 15 tell you, "Yeah, we know someone." 16 So they're familiar with it. 17 So we now need these people to put their 18 heads together, and with you, with your suggestions, 19 to be able to come up with a plan to, I say, fight 20 the drugs coming in here. 21 Arrest the people that are dealing the drugs, 22 put them in jail for life; get them off the street. 23 And, educate our children, going forward. 24 Plus, you need to financially support the 25 groups that are helping. Like this young man here, 1 and that group in the back, they need to be 2 supported. 3 We need to help the people that are in crisis 4 now. 5 We can always go back and help the kids that 6 are young, and make them understand what damage it 7 does do. 8 But we need to set -- we need to support the 9 agencies that help the people with the addiction. 10 Anybody here quit smoking? [Raises hand.] 11 I quit smoking. Damned hard; right? 12 Imagine trying to quit heroin. That's really 13 hard. 14 And my son fought that fight. He went away, 15 he got treatment. He was clean for nine months. 16 I still don't know what caused my son to do 17 what he did, but at the end of the day, on my son's 18 death certificate, it says, "acute heroin 19 intoxication." 20 And that's my story. 21 And for the rest of my life, I have to live 22 without my son. 23 You know, we have memories. I can't put my 24 arms around a memory. 25 So, this epidemic has taken my son, much like 1 the Crupi family. 2 And I don't want anyone else, and we'll share 3 in that, we do not want anyone else to share what we 4 have. Believe me. 5 There is a piece of us missing, and people 6 say, "time heals all wounds." 7 No, it does not, because, there is a hole in 8 us. There is a piece of us gone forever. 9 Please, if you know something, you see 10 something, say something. Step up. 11 If you're a friend, tell someone, because 12 people need help. We cannot -- we cannot put this 13 underneath the carpet any longer. 14 I will applaud Senator Lanza for getting -- 15 making it harder to get pills, but if I wanted to be 16 critical, I would say we should have went after 17 heroin first, and then go after the pills. 18 But, they did a magnificent job doing that, 19 and I applaud everyone. 20 And I applaud everyone here for coming forth, 21 to put forth a plan to finally get rid of the 22 epidemic in Staten Island. 23 Thank you, and God bless you. 24 [Applause.] 25 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you so much, 1 Mr. Hunt. Thank you for sharing your story. 2 We now hear from Miss Candace Crupi. 3 CANDACE CRUPI: And, good afternoon. 4 I lost Jonathan in Conosco once, when he 5 was 4, and it took me 20 minutes to find him. 6 By the time I saw him, I was frantic. 7 I smacked him on the bottom and told him never to 8 wander from me again. 9 And with tears in his eyes, Johnnie looked at 10 me and said: Mom, you're making me hit my children. 11 And I thought that was kind of profound. 12 He was a happy, loving caring kid. 13 When he was 7, he wanted to be a priest, but 14 settled to be an altar boy. 15 At age 9, the priest asked for volunteers 16 because there was a shortage of ushers, and the next 17 week he came to church in his suit to help out. 18 Jonathan was a high-achiever. There was so 19 much he wanted to do. 20 He always had high grades. He was a Boy 21 Scout. He earned a black belt in karate. He played 22 every sport imaginable. He took music lessons, he 23 played. 24 My whole job was just to usher him from place 25 to place. My car looked like a changing room. 1 Life with Johnnie was always an adventure. 2 That all stopped the day, when he was in 3 seventh grade, at the age of 12, he was introduced 4 to alcohol. His first experience with liquor put 5 him in the hospital, where he stayed for three days 6 because of alcohol poisoning. 7 That was the beginning of John's addiction. 8 He quickly got bored of liquor and started 9 smoking pot. 10 When that didn't do enough, he started on 11 pills. 12 By the time he was 16, he was hopeless -- 13 helplessly addicted to oxycodone. 14 The only reason he went to heroin was because 15 he couldn't afford oxycodone anymore. 16 I can't count the detox, rehab, and 17 counseling stints he did. 18 Jonathan was once given a choice of drug 19 rehab, which he knew would be nine months; or 20 four months in jail, which he knew would be actually 21 two months for good behavior. 22 Well, he chose jail. 23 We were always told that he wouldn't stop 24 unless he wants to. Or, he has to hit bottom before 25 he'll stop. 1 We kicked John out for days or weeks. He 2 would go into the woods or sneak in stairwells to 3 sleep. 4 How far is bottom? 5 The problem is, how they -- how can they want 6 to stop if they can't think straight? 7 These drugs take over their whole way of 8 thinking until they just can't think for themselves 9 anymore. 10 And in the obituaries, there's a certain age 11 group, from 17 to 55. And if you see "died at 12 home," you know it was either a drug overdose or 13 just too many years doing drugs. 14 Everybody knows it, but nobody says anything 15 because it's taboo. 16 The families are left behind, feeling alone 17 and frustrated and embarrassed because of their 18 loved one's addiction. And we need to fix this. 19 You cannot define a person because of their 20 addiction. You need to remember them as they were 21 before the addiction. 22 Every single person, including my son 23 Jonathan, started their life out on the good foot. 24 They were happy, hard working, eager to please 25 people, that had dreams and ambitions, and loved 1 their families, until they met drugs. 2 I will always be grateful to the many people 3 who have tried to help John, but, somehow, I think 4 the approach to treating addiction has to be 5 different because we're losing too many loved ones. 6 I think drug rehab should be funded by the 7 pharmaceutical companies. They're making ridiculous 8 amounts of money, and they're reaping all the 9 benefits but sharing none of our sorrow. 10 What about the new and stronger oxycodone? 11 Instead of Percocet or Vicodin, which is a 12 about a third oxycodone and two-thirds analgesic, 13 the FDA just okayed a new pill which is 100 percent 14 oxycodone. 15 What's wrong with this picture? What are 16 they thinking? 17 The drug companies also came out with the 18 nasal spray called "naloxone" that can block the 19 effects of an opioid overdose. And they're handing 20 them out and training people to use them, which is 21 great. 22 The drug companies are trying to make us 23 think that they're doing everything they can to 24 help, which couldn't be farther from the truth, 25 though. 1 I'm afraid it's going to give the families a 2 false sense of security because, unless you're there 3 when the person takes the heroin, it only takes a 4 couple of minutes for the drugs to start working. 5 Whether it's snorted or shot, it doesn't 6 matter, both ways are deadly. 7 Once a drug starts working, their breathing 8 slows until they stop breathing all together. 9 The whole process takes no more than 10 15 minutes before that person dies. 11 And I know this, because the overdose that 12 killed Jonathan wasn't his first. 13 Johnnie had a tattoo on his arm, and I loved 14 it. It said: Every angel has a past, and every sin 15 has a future. 16 Let's work at giving these people so 17 helplessly addicted to these drug a future. 18 We need to erase the stigma or the 19 embarrassment and treat these people like the loved 20 ones that they are, and maybe they'll go for help. 21 Thank you. 22 [Applause.] 23 BRIAN HUNT: Can I just interject for a 24 moment? 25 Candy said some very potent things. 1 And, you know, I want everyone to understand 2 that drug -- drugs and the addiction is an illness. 3 It's not a handicap. And you shouldn't look upon 4 someone as being deformed in any way. 5 It's an illness. Just like every other 6 illness, just like cancer, it's the same thing, and 7 it has to be treated. 8 But I also wanted to say, for Mr. Hunt, and 9 this board here: 10 I was just informed the other night, when 11 I went to the funeral for the John [unintelligible], 12 the young boy that passed, and nobody knows why he 13 passed yet, and I was told that there is a new 14 synthetic drug out there today. It's in New Jersey, 15 and the chances are, it's going to be coming here. 16 It's a little tab that you put on your 17 finger, and you put it on your tongue or on your 18 gum. It's called an "N Bomb." 19 And you know where the kids were ordering it 20 from? Online. 21 That's been, obviously, stopped, but I'm sure 22 there's ways of getting it. 23 So, I think we need to be on the lookout for 24 that, also. 25 It's like LSD, and it, just -- you know, it 1 gives you hallucinations. 2 But, I do have -- I do have a website that 3 will explain to you everything about it, if anybody 4 wants it. It's a news reporter and also a police 5 officer. 6 And it is killing kids, 15, 16, 17 years old. 7 Thank you. 8 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you, Mr. Hunt. 9 And thank you, Mrs. Crupi. 10 We will now hear from a young man in 11 recovery, James Fiori, Jr. 12 James? 13 JAMES FIORE, JR.: Good afternoon. 14 Oh, the mic. Sorry. 15 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. 16 My name is James Fiori. 17 This afternoon, I'm going to share a part of 18 my story, struggles, and hope with you all. 19 I was born January 1, 1992; an ordinary boy 20 with a middle-class Brooklyn family, who moved to 21 Staten Island to have a better life for me and my 22 little sister. 23 Unfortunately, no matter where I moved, I was 24 unable to get away from the addictive genes passed 25 to me from my parents. 1 Regardless, Staten Island was my new home, 2 and I truly enjoyed my childhood, until one fateful 3 day, when I was about 14 at the time. Sometimes 4 I would sneak a cigarette, or a pull the joint with 5 some friends. 6 At the time, that was the extent of my drug 7 use. Like a lot of my generation, at that young 8 age, I was experimenting. 9 Then came the day, for better or worse, that 10 shaped the rest of my life, and so many more lives 11 on this island. 12 I took my first Percocet at about 14. 13 Excuse me. 14 I loved the feeling it gave me, and my 15 addictive genes kicked right in. 16 My addiction progressed quickly, from taking 17 a Perc or two, to snorting oxycodone, and Oxycontin, 18 and needing any opiate just not to be sick. 19 Very quickly, my life had been consumed by 20 the horrors of opiate addiction and its dependence. 21 I was raised a good young man, with respect, 22 loyalty, and a good set of core values. 23 When I was using, however, that all went out 24 the window. 25 As my tolerance grew, I would do things to 1 get pills I would never have dreamed. 2 I sold all my valuable possessions, and stole 3 from my parents and friends. 4 In the end, I lost all of my true friends 5 because they couldn't bear to see the drug addict 6 I had become. 7 This for me was the saddest and most 8 oppressing point I've yet been in in my young life, 9 because I knew what I was doing was wrong but my 10 desire for opioids outweighed my conscience. 11 Of course, the consequences of my addiction 12 caught up with me and I was arrested. I went 13 through the system, and had a 4-year battle with 14 courts, lawyers, and prison. 15 I navigated through the system in order to 16 keep felony charges off my record that would have 17 permanently scared my future. 18 At this time, I would like to thank my 19 mother, Marie Fiori, for not giving up on me through 20 these dark years. 21 When I was released from prison, I was full 22 of hope, but people, places, and things I couldn't 23 stay away from. 24 In a short time, I was back in the grips of 25 full-blown addiction. 1 Thank God, at this time, a few people saw a 2 light in myself that I thought was extinguished long 3 ago; mainly, my counselor, Naomi; and the director 4 of the Community Health Action, 5 Angela Antonaccio [ph.]. 6 Through their guidance and counseling, I was 7 encouraged to go on Suboxone, which, at the time, 8 was the best thing I could have done. 9 Excuse me. 10 Since I've been taking my Suboxone as 11 prescribed, and attending my daily groups at 12 Community Health Action, I've been able to turn my 13 life around, and the obsession to use pills and 14 heroin are now gone. 15 Now I go to college and outpatient five days 16 a week. I'm not perfect, and I still have slip-ups, 17 but, overall, for the first time in years, I'm truly 18 happy. 19 I am now starting toward becoming a counselor 20 at CSI. 21 In my story, I want to stress the importance 22 of Suboxone, with groups, and the willingness to 23 stop using, as a major factor in the success of my 24 recovery, thus far. 25 With all respect, and sincerity, I would dare 1 broach one last topic with the ladies and gentlemen 2 in this room. 3 It is my firm belief that Suboxone can help 4 other young people to fight the disease of opiate 5 addiction and maintain successful clean time, just 6 as it has helped me. 7 I humbly ask a policy of Staten Island Task 8 and Treatment Court clients having to be cut off 9 Suboxone in order to complete their mandated term of 10 treatment, to be changed. 11 I hate to quote statistics, but, 12 statistically speaking, the highest rate of lasting 13 sobriety for long-term opiate addicts on Suboxone is 14 for about two years, coupled with talk therapy. And 15 that has a success rate of about 50 percent. 16 A 50 percent success rate may not seem 17 significant, but it is significantly higher than any 18 other modern method of opiate treatment. 19 It is my firm belief that responsible 20 individuals who take their medicine, not to get 21 high, but as a chance to live -- excuse me, but as a 22 chance to live a sober life, should be able to have 23 a choice to stay on their medication, with their own 24 willingness to stop, instead of being prematurely 25 forced to be taken off of Suboxone before they can 1 graduate their mandated terms. 2 I know policy change is not made easy, but 3 with hope and education, I believe that this policy 4 can be improved upon, for the sons, daughters, 5 fathers, and mothers on our island who are suffering 6 from this deadly disease of opioid addiction. 7 In closing, I would like to thank the whole 8 staff of Community Health Action for supporting me 9 through both my failures and successes, and for 10 continuing to be a guiding force and sober-support 11 network in my life. 12 I would also like to thank all of the people 13 on this panel, the mothers, fathers, Senators, 14 Councilmen, family members; everyone here for 15 listening to me. 16 Thank you, and respectfully and sincerely, 17 James Fiore. 18 [Applause.] 19 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you so much, James. 20 Thank you for having the courage to share 21 your story, and giving us some good idea, actually, 22 for some legislation to look at as the panel 23 progresses. 24 I would like to now open it up to the 25 panelists. 1 Our first area is going to be on public 2 health, and the effect that the heroin epidemic and 3 opioid epidemic is having on our hospitals, on our 4 treatment facilities. 5 If we could start with, perhaps, 6 Dr. Messina, can you tell -- give us a little bit 7 of your insights from Richmond University Medical 8 Center? 9 DR. DANIEL J. MESSINA: Good afternoon. 10 Thank you Senator Lanza and Senator Savino 11 for organizing this critical forum. 12 Staten Island has surpassed the rest of 13 New York City, with 10.2 fatal overdoses per 100,000 14 people. 15 Heroin deaths were higher in the past years 16 on our own mid-island and south shore than in any 17 other neighborhood citywide. 18 South Beach and Tottenville were in the top 19 five neighborhoods in New York City. 20 Thanks to city and state elected officials, 21 naloxone was introduced, and the internasal drug is 22 credited for saving lives of heroin overdoses if 23 administered properly. 24 The drug is now carried by police officers in 25 Staten Island neighborhoods as part of a pilot 1 program. 2 As of yesterday, Richmond University Medical 3 Center's EMTs are all equipped with naloxone and 4 trained to administer this life-saving medication. 5 We were the first in the New York City 9/11 6 system to be fully trained and carrying naloxone, a 7 step we took to protect our community and stem the 8 rise of overdoses seen in our borough. 9 Richmond University Medical Center has made 10 critical changes to our emergency department 11 guidelines, to minimize the number of opioid pain 12 killers prescribed upon discharge. 13 We have further instilled in our emergency 14 physicians that no long-acting opioids are to be 15 utilized unless clearly necessary for proper 16 treatment. 17 The new guidelines are part of the 18 New York City Emergency Department Discharge 19 Guidelines. The set of nine guidelines, along with 20 clinical judgment and expertise, can help reverse 21 opioid dependence and overdose. 22 We are currently working with all of our 23 physicians to implement new prescribing guidelines 24 within their practices, as well, to minimize legal 25 access to opioids, since the risk of addiction or 1 misuse is so widespread. 2 Through our participation in the DEA's 3 Drug Take-Back Program, Richmond University Medical 4 Center collected more than 300 pounds of unwanted, 5 expired, and unused prescriptions. 6 The Joint Senate Task Force is a significant 7 step towards awareness and action. 8 My staff at Richmond University Medical 9 Center looks forward to working with everyone on the 10 panel, and with you, Senator Lanza, Senator Savino, 11 to reverse trends and to educate Staten Island 12 residents. 13 Despite recent overdoses of high-profile 14 celebrities in the media -- recently, Philip Seymour 15 Hoffman, we all read the story -- many residents of 16 our boroughs believe that heroin addiction cannot 17 happen in our quiet neighborhood. 18 It is happening here; just as it's happening 19 even more dramatically in that quiet little Rutland, 20 Vermont, neighborhood upstate. 21 "New York Times" Reporter Kathleen Seeley 22 described this crisis as a call to arms. 23 And a recent "Rolling Stone" article 24 described Vermont at the new face -- as the new face 25 of heroin addiction. 1 Vermont's Governor Pete Shumlin devoted his 2 entire State Of The State message to what he said 3 was a full-blown heroin crisis. 4 It's critical to pay attention to Vermont, as 5 it paints a picture of the consequences of heroin 6 addiction in a small community. 7 Richmond University Medical Center is 8 committed to being part of the solution: working to 9 educate borough residents, working with our elected 10 officials, and acting as a resource in the 11 development of new policy solutions that will stem 12 the tide of opioid addiction. 13 Treatment is available for all those faced 14 with addiction. 15 Our Silverstein Clinic and Rehab Center is 16 available for those 18 and older. And we have a 17 24-hour hotline that can be called by anyone. 18 Again, in Rutland, Vermont, what struck me 19 was, the director of psychiatric services, a 20 gentleman by the name of Jeff McKee [ph.], and 21 I quote him, "There is probably not a person in 22 Rutland County whose life has not been affected by 23 opioid addiction in one way or another." 24 And I think the same applies to us here in 25 Staten Island. And I can include myself. 1 I've had three of my very close relatives die 2 of drug overdoses over the last many years, 3 beginning in 1977, on Mother's Day. Ten years 4 later, his brother. And then, about seven years 5 ago, my cousin who is a pharmacist. 6 And, again, like Mr. Brian Hunt just said, 7 these were great, great kids. 8 I am unsettled at the epidemic that continues 9 to build before us; however, I am optimistic, as 10 I look forward to this panel of experts to devote 11 the energy and resources needed to save our 12 residents. 13 And I look forward, I'm back on my fifth day 14 from 30 years in New Jersey, and I'm really pleased 15 to be back in my hometown to, hopefully, help along 16 the way. Thank you. 17 [Applause.] 18 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you very much, Doctor. 19 Now, this is not really a hearing. It's more 20 of a forum. 21 So, please, anybody chime in, if you have 22 something to add, or -- to whatever's being said. 23 I'd ask the same question of Dr. Kunins, 24 regarding your experience with -- 25 LUKE NASTA: if I could just say something? 1 SENATOR BOYLE: Oh, please. 2 LUKE NASTA: I just want to applaud you, 3 Dr. Messina, for talking about how it affected 4 your own family, because, as long as we get it out 5 from under the table, and we put it here, we've got 6 a chance of controlling it and beating it. 7 And, you know, thank you for leading the way, 8 and being a role model. 9 DR. DANIEL J. MESSINA: Thank you. 10 And could I could say, again, like Mr. Hunt 11 mentioned, it sticks with us. 12 You know, as an only child, those were my 13 three -- believe it or not, my three closest 14 cousins, so they were semi-brothers to me when 15 I grew up. 16 So it's something, a piece, that will never 17 go away, and that's missing. 18 [Applause.] 19 DR. HILLARY KUNINS: Thank you, 20 Senators Lanza and Savino, and I was very happy to 21 be able to participate both yesterday at this event 22 in Manhattan, and today here on Staten Island. 23 I'm Dr. Hillary Kunins. I'm the acting 24 executive deputy commissioner for mental hygiene at 25 New York City Department of Health and 1 Mental Hygiene. 2 We at the Health Department at the city have 3 been, as you all know, very concerned and active in 4 addressing issues of prescription drugs and heroin. 5 My colleague from RUMC just mentioned, 6 according to our health-surveillance data, and 7 nationally, there were 16,000 overdose deaths in 8 this country. 9 We see them as preventable. 10 And, surely, as we hear today, and from our 11 colleagues, really tragically take the lives of 12 people mostly way too young to be facing this 13 serious illness. 14 In New York City, as you heard, rates of 15 unintentional overdose deaths have increased 16 233 percent from opioid analgesics since 2000. 17 And in the last two years, heroin-overdose 18 deaths in our city have increased 84 percent. 19 Staten Island has been hardest hit in terms 20 of both heroin and opioid analgesics of all of our 21 boroughs. 22 I just want to say, also, personally, as a 23 physician, where I cared for patients both in 24 primary-care and in addiction-treatment settings for 25 more than 16 years in the Bronx, caring for people 1 with this illness is really one of the most 2 professionally satisfying parts of my work as a 3 clinician, and having the ability to see folks 4 recover. And some of the tragic losses that I had 5 the honor of witnessing, and talking to families, is 6 a really important part of my career as a physician. 7 And I think I want to share that to say, that 8 this disease is greatly stigmatized, both the 9 disease and its treatment. 10 And by coming out both personally and 11 professionally to say that this is an important 12 piece of our work together, I think that this is why 13 it's really great to hear from families, people 14 affected, to hear from people in the profession, to 15 say how important this work is to all of us. 16 And convening this Task Force in this way is 17 a terrific opportunity to be able to do that. 18 I also want to highlight my work and our work 19 at the Health Department. 20 In addition to the surveillance that we do, 21 we are very proud to have been able to participate 22 in an effort that city and state and federal 23 colleagues called "Rx Stat," part of the Mayor's 24 Task Force on Prescription Pain-Killer Abuse started 25 in the last administration. 1 Housed at the Health Department, Rx Stat is a 2 public-health and public-safety collaboration -- 3 some of our colleagues and collaborators are here 4 today -- that enables key data around opioid 5 surveillance in real time. Multiple and innovative 6 data sources are used to give a comprehensive view 7 of the opioid problem in New York City. 8 Importantly, this collaboration allows us, 9 across agencies, across state and city, to 10 coordinate efforts, think of solutions, and act in a 11 timely fashion. 12 As you know, the Health Department supports 13 access to naloxone, which you've already heard 14 mentioned today. We support training and naloxone 15 distribution to laypeople trained as overdose 16 responsers -- responders. 17 Since 2009, we are aware of more than 18 500 overdose reversals conducted by laypeople, and 19 we know that this is much underreported. 20 We have also collaborated, as you'll no doubt 21 hear, with New York City Police Department in a 22 pilot program here on Staten Island, and we are 23 aware of three reversals to date. 24 The Health Department also strongly supports 25 Senator Hannon's bill that would enable more 1 widespread distribution of naloxone, by allowing 2 trained laypeople, as well as pharmacists, to 3 dispense naloxone with prescriber authorization. 4 As you already heard, another key part of our 5 efforts have been to promote guidelines, both for 6 emergency department and general-practice settings, 7 promoting judicious opioid prescribing. 8 We have also engaged in public awareness by 9 producing and airing several PSA (or public-service 10 announcements) on the risks of prescription opioids; 11 most recently, highlighting two Staten Islanders: 12 one who tragically lost her son from an opioid 13 overdose, and another highlighting a gentleman in 14 recovery. 15 Finally, and to echo the words you just 16 heard, there's urgent need for increased awareness 17 of and access to effective treatment for patients 18 and New Yorkers with opioid dependence and 19 addiction. 20 And as you've heard, like other chronic 21 health conditions, addiction is treatable. 22 You heard about the 50 percent success rate. 23 And I can tell you, in my work in primary 24 care, 50 percent effective treatment of diabetes and 25 high blood pressure is a pretty good rate. 1 And, so, I want to just say that that's a 2 pretty good success rate, and we should take every 3 advantage of it. 4 Scientific evidence demonstrates that 5 medication-assisted treatments, such as methadone 6 and buprenorphine, is the most effective way to 7 treat opioid addiction, which is a chronic, and can 8 be a lifelong, illness. 9 These medicines reduce deaths, drug use, 10 crime, and help people participate in their 11 communities, their families, and workplaces. 12 I will close by reiterating, we firmly 13 believe these deaths and addiction is preventable, 14 and moving forward addressing both opioid-analgesic 15 and heroin-overdose deaths will continue to be a 16 priority for the City Health Department. 17 We very much thank the Senate for their focus 18 on this public-health crisis, and we look forward to 19 working with you to move forward. 20 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you. 21 [Applause.] 22 SENATOR BOYLE: I would like to acknowledge 23 that we've been joined by the Staten Island 24 representative of Governor Andrew Cuomo, Paul Duffy. 25 Paul, thank you very much for coming. 1 [Applause.] 2 ASSEMBLYMAN CUSICK: Doctor, I just have a 3 quick question. 4 In reading the testimony, I see 2012. 5 Do we have recent statistics on overdose 6 unintended overdose stats? 7 DR. HILLARY KUNINS: So, though we are -- so, 8 not yet. We don't have final numbers. 9 We're hoping by the summer to have compiled 10 and checked figures. 11 ASSEMBLYMAN CUSICK: Okay. Thank you. 12 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you. 13 We do have a couple of questions from our 14 audience. 15 I would like to add one here, we have from a 16 parent: "Are there tips you can offer to help me 17 identify if my kids are on heroin or oxycodone?" 18 And I guess, Dr. Joffe, if you could... 19 DR. RUSSELL JOFFE: I'm not sure that there's 20 a specific answer to that. 21 I don't think it would be -- it would be 22 nice, but, no. Neither of those are good options. 23 So, the important thing is, to have open 24 communication. 25 And -- but, I don't think there's a specific 1 set of clinical symptoms that are going to 2 differentiate these addictions. 3 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you. 4 Yes. 5 CANDACE CRUPI: From experience with my own 6 son, opioid, the pills, the Oxycontin, if they're on 7 them, they itch a lot. They're always scratching 8 their face. 9 They take the heroin, they're out cold. 10 There's two -- yeah, that's the difference. 11 They don't take heroin, then just walk around 12 and itch around. They're out cold. 13 And that's our experience. 14 BARRY CRUPI: They nod out a lot. 15 CANDACE CRUPI: Yeah, they nod out a lot, 16 but, they don't scratch their face, and they're not 17 very itchy. 18 The pills make them very itchy. 19 BARRY CRUPI: And they don't eat when they're 20 on heroin. 21 CANDACE CRUPI: Right, yeah. 22 BARRY CRUPI: He never ate when he was on 23 heroin. 24 CANDACE CRUPI: And, yeah, you would know, 25 too. Right? 1 JAMES FIORE, JR.: Absolutely. 2 AUDIENCE MEMBER: [No microphone used.] 3 Maybe somebody from the panel [inaudible]. 4 LUKE NASTA: If I may? 5 Nobody knows your children better than you 6 do. Nobody. Not their buddies, not whoever hangs 7 out with them. 8 As a matter of fact, the ones who know the 9 best are the siblings. 10 But nobody knows your children better than 11 you do. 12 If you suspect something's wrong, trust your 13 instinct something's wrong. 14 Whether we call it Oxycontin, oxycodone, 15 marijuana, inhalants, pills, heroin, cocaine, 16 whatever it is, you'll know that there's a problem. 17 And step up, and step into it, or wind up like these 18 unfortunate parents here. 19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: [No microphone 20 used/inaudible.] 21 LUKE NASTA: No, I'm sorry. 22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: [No microphone 23 used/Inaudible.] 24 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: You're right. 25 You're 100 percent right. 1 [Applause.] 2 JAMES FIORE, JR.: Thank you. 3 I know from my own symptoms, extreme -- if -- 4 you could tell if someone is using oxycodone or 5 Oxycontin or any powerful opiate, by things, like, 6 there's mood swings. 7 In the morning, at night, being extremely 8 happy because they're high. 9 And then the next morning, going into temper 10 tantrums and tirades and punching holes in the 11 walls. 12 You can tell that they're not just doing 13 other things. Not maybe smoking weed, and whatnot. 14 You know, if children, which I have done, 15 I switched -- if I was -- when I was using, to ask 16 my mother for, "Mom, can, I have $30? I'm going to 17 go out to see a movie with a girl." 18 Or something like that. And I -- I'd hang 19 out in the neighborhood with my friends, in the 20 house. I don't go anywhere. 21 You know, she can see, you can tell that 22 people on any opioid, if their eyes are pinned, if 23 their pupils are pinned, and not dilated. You know, 24 that they get smaller. 25 And, isolation. 1 Isolation, in progressive addiction -- as 2 addiction progresses, isolation becomes a big part 3 of it. You know, what I mean? 4 And you'll see the crowds of children that 5 your friends hang out, that -- excuse me, the crowds 6 that your children hang out with will change. 7 Slowly, but surely, you'll start to notice 8 that they're not the kids that are going to school 9 or playing sports. They're the kids that are 10 smoking weed, that are selling weed, that are 11 selling pills, that are drinking and partying. 12 You know, with me and myself, I know that 13 I put my mother through hell. I know that I stole. 14 My mother knew, because she noticed her 15 medication was missing, because my -- both of my 16 parents worked, you know, two New York City jobs: a 17 postal mail handler, and, a track layer, my father. 18 They were both -- they both worked City jobs, 19 and I stole both their medications. 20 My mother -- my mother got off hers. She 21 chose to get off hers for that reason. 22 And, uhm -- yeah, you know -- I'm sorry, 23 that's all I have. Thank you. 24 Thank you. 25 [Applause.] 1 BRIAN HUNT: If I could just add to what 2 James said, James obviously lived it; hits the nail 3 on the head. 4 And you're right, he's the one we need to 5 hear from. 6 But I will tell you, from a person's point of 7 view, my son, very active, athletic, smart kid. 8 You know what? It was there. We didn't see 9 it. We didn't know what we were looking at, what we 10 were looking for. 11 But when you find out, what happens is, they 12 withdraw. They don't eat. They lose weight. They 13 sleep a lot. Sometimes they don't sleep at all. 14 And then you notice, like James said, my son 15 started to get new friends. 16 You know, when you get accustomed to seeing 17 the same group of kids with your son, in and out of 18 your house, who's there, who's playing, you know, 19 who's on video games, who's eating dinner with you, 20 or having a Sunday sauce, or whatever, and then, all 21 of a sudden, you meet these new kids, and, "Hey, 22 dad, this is my friend Tommy." 23 You know, my son had a -- my son was in a 24 fraternity with St. John's. He would introduce 25 me: Hey, dad, this is my friend Tommy. He's going 1 to be joining us. 2 "Okay, cool." 3 "And this is my friend John." 4 "This is my friend Bill." 5 All these new people. 6 And you know what? They come up very 7 respectful: Mr. Hunt, how are you? Nice meeting 8 you. You have a lovely home. 9 Goes down and sees my son. 10 How do I know that that wasn't the person 11 that said: Here, here's your stuff, in my house? 12 So there's a bit of disrespect involved in 13 that. 14 But you have to look for it. You have to 15 really look hard at your kid. 16 It's not going to jump out and bite you. You 17 have to pay attention to it. 18 And when they start to withdraw, and they 19 don't want to go away with you, and they don't want 20 to go someplace, you know, you begin to say: You 21 know what? I don't want to leave them home. 22 I will tell you, when my son went away for 23 treatment, went for two months -- 24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: [No microphone 25 used/inaudible.] 1 [Microphone handed to audience member.] 2 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Jacqueline, you know me. 3 YMCA didn't help him. 4 You know me very well. I put him in there 5 how many times? 6 He's 22, I can't help him no more, they say. 7 He's 22. 8 Nobody can help me. 9 I have a petition, I just handed it to you. 10 I love my son, he's a good kid. Very 11 respectful. 12 He went to Cooper's wake. That's the day he 13 almost broke my arm, right after it. He begged me 14 for money. 15 She just lost her son three weeks ago. 16 [Another audience member stands.] 17 AUDIENCE MEMBER: There's a lot more. 18 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: How much? 19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: A lot more. 20 Pinning of the eyes. They can get big, they 21 can get small. 22 Sean's a good kid. 23 I got three boys. 24 It's hard. 25 Heroin is hard. 1 Outpatient don't work. I'm sorry. 2 Outpatient doesn't work. 3 Suboxone does not work. 4 Morphine does not work. 5 He went to Seguine. They gave him a drug, 6 three weeks ago. What did he do with it? Sold it. 7 He went to YMCA, they gave him Suboxone. He 8 went on Facebook, "Got Subs for sale. I got Subs 9 for sale." 10 I went back to Y and I said: Look, Sean's 11 got Subs for sale. 12 I showed them his Facebook. I argued with 13 that counselor. 14 And what did the counselor say to me? 15 "I don't like your attitude." 16 To me, the mother, "I don't like your 17 attitude." 18 I said: I don't like you. Do you have 19 children? 20 No, I don't have children. 21 I said: You don't understand then. He's my 22 son. That's my son. 23 I want to save his life. I don't want to 24 wind up like them. 25 And I'm very sorry for your loss. I am. 1 I want to save the children. And they are 2 children, as far as I'm concerned. I don't care if 3 they're 50, they are my children. 4 And I have a petition. 5 No matter how old they are, we as parents 6 have a right to save our children. 7 I'm asking for that petition. 8 And, everybody, I have a petition. If yous 9 want to sign it, I'll be at the door. 10 AUDIENCE MEMBER: [No microphone used.] 11 For what? What is it? 12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: To change the age, of a 13 parent to sign their family member into rehab for at 14 least nine months, until they have the thinking mind 15 of their own. 16 [Applause.] 17 AUDIENCE MEMBER: [No microphone 18 used/inaudible.] 19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Because they cannot think 20 while they are high. 21 [Applause.] 22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: They cannot think on their 23 own while they are high. 24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Can I say something? 25 My -- 1 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'll be at the door. 2 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Excuse me, I'd like to say 3 something. 4 My daughter is presently in rehab, and she 5 has a co-occurring condition. 6 My daughter had to go to Florida for help, 7 because she came -- went to the Staten Island Mental 8 Health. She refused to go. She said she was going, 9 and she -- after three times, you're out the door 10 and they can't help you anymore. 11 So I -- my daughter is now in rehab in 12 Florida. 13 And this "privacy act" thing that we all know 14 about, when you're an addict, they're really not -- 15 in my opinion, they're not focused properly in their 16 heads. They just care about getting their 17 substance. 18 What happens is, my daughter was admitted 19 into the hospital for psychological problems; 20 wanting to commit suicide a couple of times. 21 And the MS came, "Bring her to the psych 22 ward." 23 My daughter came out the same night. 24 Couldn't tell us anything, because my 25 daughter was 18 years old. "The privacy act." 1 Where is -- where -- as parents, where do we 2 stand? 3 Where do people, when these children, not 4 right in their minds to make their own decisions to 5 get their -- to get themselves help? 6 I even went to the courts to get my daughter 7 that mental -- the right to -- to get her the 8 mental, I forgot what you call it -- 9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: [No microphone 10 used/inaudible.] 11 AUDIENCE MEMBER: -- and they awarded it to 12 me. 13 But what -- I would have to get the police to 14 get my daughter in my home, where she was 15 disappearing, going to crack houses, and what have 16 you, to get her help during the police -- during 17 court hours, and have the judge find out if she 18 really needed psychological help. 19 I mean, where is the rights, as parents, to 20 get your kids help without this privacy act? 21 I mean, they're not -- the addict is not 22 right in their head. 23 You want to help your children, but you have 24 this -- they're not telling you. They can't tell 25 you what's going wrong with children, even though 1 you know. You want to know what your child's on. 2 My daughter -- they told my daughter to sign 3 the paper. 4 They couldn't even tell me. 5 There was a police officer in the hospital 6 with her. I couldn't even know what's going on with 7 my daughter. 8 It's quite frustrating. 9 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you very much. 10 And I'll tell you that, we raised a couple of 11 issues here that I would like to get the panel's 12 opinion about these. 13 One is, Suboxone; and, whether it's 14 methadone, Suboxone, other medication, that addicts 15 are using while they're going through treatment. 16 I have gone around the state, and some people 17 swear by them, that these are -- it's the best way 18 to recovery. And others are saying, no, that these 19 addicted individuals are selling them on the street, 20 and -- to buy more heroin or become addicted to 21 them. 22 So, for the experts on the panel, I would 23 like to ask your opinion, and what you feel about 24 that. 25 Dr. Kunins? 1 DR. HILLARY KUNINS: So, thank you for 2 telling us both of your stories. And I know these 3 raise really complicated issues. 4 No single treatment works for every person; 5 I just want to start there. 6 And -- and because of the severity of 7 illness, sometimes it takes some time. 8 And I really respect -- 9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: [No microphone 10 used/inaudible.] 11 [Multiple audience members speaking at 12 the same time.] 13 SENATOR BOYLE: Hold on. 14 Let me -- if we could, sir, you'll get a 15 chance. 16 SENATOR SAVINO: Let her finish. 17 SENATOR BOYLE: You'll get a chance. 18 Let's get some information. 19 DR. HILLARY KUNINS: I do want to just offer, 20 that different people's experiences are different. 21 But we -- but we -- and different intensity 22 of treatment, outpatient and inpatient, is different 23 for different people at different times. 24 We know from the medical literature, and 25 that's where I come from and can provide some 1 insight, is that many, many people do well and are 2 able to turn around their addiction with the help of 3 medicines. 4 That's not to say everybody, and not to say 5 that outpatient works for all people. 6 But to -- it's an important part of the 7 continuum of care and the services. 8 And for some people who have not been offered 9 medicine or not been available to take medicine 10 before, it can change the course of their -- their 11 course of their road for them. 12 And, I think we don't want to demonize one 13 treatment or another. I think it's important, in 14 the continuum of care, to make these options 15 available. 16 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you, Doctor. 17 SENATOR SAVINO: I have a question. 18 And, first, thank you for sharing that; your 19 personal pain, and the heartbreak. 20 And I see there's so many of you here who are 21 feeling this. 22 But what I hear is, the frustration that 23 you've been through, attempts at rehab before, with 24 your children, or your other family members. 25 And remember, this is not just kids. This is 1 everybody, you know. There's not a family I know 2 that hasn't been touched by addiction, including my 3 own. 4 But one of the things I'm hearing over and 5 over, is this new trend of rehab, inpatient rehabs, 6 which are directed, really, by the insurance 7 industry that say: We'll only pay for 28 days of 8 rehab. 9 28 days is not enough, particularly because 10 of the drugs that people are utilizing now. Many of 11 them, as Dr. Joffe knows, are also taking 12 psychotropic medication to deal with other medical 13 issues that they have. 14 We have a lot of mentally ill, 15 chemically-addicted people, and they're 16 self-medicating if they can't get what they need. 17 But 28 days is not enough time, and then to 18 expect them to manage their medication, manage their 19 psychiatric issues, manage their addiction, and do 20 it successfully. 21 I think we're expecting way too much. There 22 was a time when rehab was 12 months to 24 months, 23 and inpatient. 24 [Applause.] 25 SENATOR SAVINO: And I'm just wondering to 1 the service providers, is there some -- is there a 2 way that you can help us kind of redirect the 3 insurance industry that these are the things that 4 they should be paying for? 5 Dr. Joffe? 6 BRIAN HUNT: Well, can I just comment for a 7 second before that gentleman speaks? 8 I put my son into the 28-day program, 9 inpatient. He had to stay for another month. 10 My insurance company did not pay for my son 11 to be in treatment. 12 SENATOR SAVINO: At all? 13 BRIAN HUNT: At all. 14 And I'm -- and I'm glad you asked me that 15 question. You know why? 16 Because they told me that my son did not go 17 into an outpatient program. 18 But I put my son into a private outpatient 19 program, where he got personalized care in a 20 personalized group, that I paid for, that I did not 21 go through my insurance company for. 22 And they told me that, outpatient, before my 23 son could go into inpatient, and it cost me $10,000 24 a month for treatment, they said to me: Outpatient 25 has to fail. 1 And I said: What does that mean? Go ahead, 2 tell me what that means. 3 She said: Well, it means it doesn't work. 4 And I said: Go ahead, tell me what "doesn't 5 work" means? 6 My son has to do drugs again. Right? He has 7 to relapse. 8 What if my son dies? 9 We're trying to follow the program, and 10 I have to subject my son to something like that? 11 My wife sat in this place, originally, when 12 we went there, and my wife feared for her life while 13 she was sitting there. 14 And my wife said: This is my baby. I can't 15 put my baby in here. 16 People are walking around, and they're 17 saying: Come on, you have to be piss test. 18 And the kid says: No, I can't. I did my 19 shit today. I'll do it tomorrow. 20 My wife's not going put my son in a place 21 like that. So we paid privately. 22 Didn't matter. 23 My son had to fail at outpatient relapse, 24 take drugs, possibly die, and then the insurance 25 company said: You know what? We'll pay for you. 1 But ultimately what happens is, when my son 2 relapsed, at the end of the day, make no mistake 3 about it, it cost $30,000 to put my son in the 4 ground, but my insurance company wouldn't pay shit 5 to get my son the help that he needed. 6 And that's amazing. 7 I know there's people out here, and I've 8 spoken to them. They struggle because, you know 9 what? They don't have the money, or the coverage. 10 There has to be a way to get these people, 11 get the coverage, and get the expenses taken care 12 of, so you can get the help that you need for your 13 children. 14 I know I would pay anything. I would give my 15 life for my child. I would love to change places 16 with my son right now. 17 I can't. 18 But we have to do something with the health 19 industry, to get people like that help. 20 This young lady here, and that young lady, 21 I know -- we know each other, we've spoken before, 22 and they're suffering. 23 And it all comes down to dollars and cents. 24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: [Speaking without a 25 microphone.] It's cost us $60,000 so far. My 1 husband [inaudible] electrical union. And we're 2 still paying for my daughter's. She's in halfway 3 program right now. 4 But if we didn't have it, you know, we're 5 struggling, financially, to pay for my daughter's. 6 The union offered us a 28-day program. 7 My daughter didn't even want to go to an 8 outpatient. We knew 28 days was not long enough. 9 So we sent my daughter to a private facility 10 in Florida, and it cost us $60,000 out of our 11 pocket. And we can't get any insurance for it. 12 So it is very unfortunate for people that 13 don't have the insurance. 14 And we love our daughter. We couldn't put 15 any dollar amount on it. And my husband took his 16 pension, that's how we -- that's how we're paying 17 for my daughter's care right now, because we love 18 her and we don't want to lose her. 19 And Staten Island's very bad here. 20 Thank you. 21 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you very much. And you 22 are not alone in that. We've heard stories. 23 Dr. Joffe, you wanted to say something? 24 DR. RUSSELL JOFFE: We have a 24-bed unit at 25 Seguine on Seguine Avenue, with an average stay of 1 28 days. We can't keep people there. 2 I think we're one of the last inpatient 3 units. 4 Most people now have to be treated as 5 outpatients because there's -- simply, insurance 6 will not generally approve stays beyond five days. 7 SENATOR BOYLE: One of the things we're 8 seeing -- 9 Excuse me, Senator. 10 SENATOR SAVINO: Uh-huh. 11 CANDACE CRUPI: Can I say something? 12 SENATOR BOYLE: One second. 13 One of things we're seeing is, there's 14 obviously legislation there regarding insurance. 15 And what we've heard at different forums is 16 the fact that, several different insurance 17 companies, you talk to ten different insurance 18 companies, you get ten different definitions of 19 "medical necessity" of what should be covered under 20 your insurance plan. 21 And with -- this Task Force is looking 22 seriously at trying to have a unified definition of 23 "medical necessity," in terms of coverage, so 24 everyone knows exactly what they're going to get and 25 what they won't get, so they can choose -- you can 1 choose your insurance company, and what to -- to see 2 what kind of treatment will be covered. 3 Mrs. Crupi. 4 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: You want to hear from -- 5 he's been waiting. 6 CANDACE CRUPI: I have a question for the 7 doctor. I think it's Dr. Russell; right? 8 DR. RUSSELL JOFFE: Joffe. 9 CANDACE CRUPI: I went to the rehab. You 10 can't get in if you're on opioids. You can -- 11 they'll only take you with the detox. They only 12 take you if you are on alcohol or Xanax. 13 Now, why is that? 14 If you're on opioids they don't care. 15 DR. RUSSELL JOFFE: Because most of opioid 16 addict -- opioid detox is increasingly becoming an 17 outpatient procedure because, although it's 18 extremely unpleasant and difficult, it is not 19 life-threatening. 20 Alcohol and benzodiazepine withdrawal is 21 life-threatening. You can die from it. 22 And so, increasingly, the practice in this 23 country, in this state, is to do that as an 24 outpatient. And the insurance companies have 25 followed suit. 1 It's very hard to get insurance approval 2 because opioid addiction can -- detox, I'm sorry 3 can, be done as an outpatient. 4 CANDACE CRUPI: But they can die of an 5 overdose. 6 DR. RUSSELL JOFFE: And remember, the detox 7 is a very, very -- detox is a very brief -- 8 BARRY CRUPI: Kids can't go till after detox. 9 DR. RUSSELL JOFFE: What's that? 10 BARRY CRUPI: If they wanted to go to 11 Seguine Avenue to detox, you won't accept them if 12 they're on heroin or if they're on Oxycontin. 13 DR. RUSSELL JOFFE: It's not -- there's no 14 blanket policy -- 15 BARRY CRUPI: The only way they're able to 16 get in is if they drink before they go there. 17 I mean, that's what they wind up doing. 18 CANDACE CRUPI: They have to have alcohol in 19 their system. 20 SENATOR BOYLE: Excuse me. 21 Sir, okay? 22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I just wanted to say, my 23 son has an addiction problem, and he's away now. 24 And I had to call my wife to see if I could 25 speak first, because there's people I here I know. 1 So that goes with the embarrassment issue. 2 But, he's in a program now called 3 "Dynamite Youth Center." It's in Brooklyn. 4 And, I was told about this by a colleague of 5 mine a while ago, but I couldn't bring -- I couldn't 6 see having to put my son away for a year. You know, 7 I figured that's like a jail sentence. 8 But, it's been a progressively difficult 9 problem with him since he's 16. Basically, the same 10 thing: alcohol. 11 He was in St. Peter's High School. 12 He went to the -- we put him in the 13 Army Reserves, the National Guard...everything 14 eventually failed, and he wound up recently 15 overdosing. 16 Fortunately, I was home that night. 17 He came home 1:00 in the morning, because 18 I gave him a 1:00 curfew. 19 He came home, he said he was at his 20 girlfriend's house. I checked him, I looked in his 21 face, he looked good. 22 He went in his room. 23 I sleep in the family room. I don't even 24 sleep with my wife, because I have to keep an eye on 25 him; make sure that he don't climb out to window, 1 make sure somebody don't come in the window. 2 But, anyway, I heard a grown about a 3 half hour later, about 1:30 in the morning, and then 4 a thud. 5 So I got up. 6 You know, usually I'll hear something and 7 I'll say, Ah, to hell with it. 8 But this -- this night, I went in, and there 9 he is on the floor, in his sweat pants, and that's 10 it. And he's not breathing. Totally unresponsive. 11 I'm slapping his face, trying to bring him to. 12 He won't come to. 13 So, you know, I'm an emergency responder, so 14 my training, finally, after 57 years of life, kicked 15 in. And you say you'll always use it when it's your 16 family member, which happened that night. 17 So I gave him the breath and the chest 18 compressions, and revived him. And then the police 19 came. 20 And he went out of second time. They had to 21 resume chest compressions. 22 Make a long story short, we went over to the 23 South Shore Staten Island University Hospital. 24 I was in there all night with him, and then they 25 released him in the morning. 1 Now, this was after I already had him in -- 2 I had until a detox -- I tried to get him into 3 detox, Bayley Seton Hospital. 4 "He doesn't have a serious enough problem." 5 I said: What do you mean? Who -- who puts 6 the definition of what the problem is? I live with 7 him. I know he's got a serious enough problem. You 8 don't even know him. You're a physician's 9 assistant. Let me talk to the doctor in charge. 10 They put him on Suboxone for a week. I had 11 keep him locked up in my house for a week, to try 12 the Suboxone. That didn't work. 13 I wound up taking him now to Staten Island 14 again, and they said they had no beds. 15 So I -- you know, I didn't want to bring him 16 home again. I don't want to bring mim back into the 17 neighborhood. 18 So I wound up taking to him to a place in 19 Jersey. We got him admitted that same day. It was 20 like the difference between night and day. 21 The epicenter of the epidemic is 22 Staten Island; and, yet, you don't get the response 23 that you would think would be appropriate with the 24 epidemic epicenter being here. 25 [Applause.] 1 AUDIENCE MEMBER: You have to go someplace 2 else to get the response that you need. 3 And now he's in -- he's in the detox for 4 seven days, maybe, in Jersey. And, we bring him 5 some clean clothes one afternoon, and he's gone. 6 I said: What do you mean he's gone? 7 "Well, he was fraternizing with a girl, so we 8 asked them both to leave." 9 "Well, where are they?" 10 "I don't know where they are." 11 So I had to call the Jersey police, put a 12 missing person's report out for him. And, 13 eventually, tracked him down. He was at the girl's 14 grandmother's house. 15 And I took him right up to the mountains of 16 Pennsylvania for rehab. 17 And, he got thrown out of rehab for fighting 18 with somebody in the rehab up there. 19 And, you know, ultimately, it wound up to 20 where he was, basically, dead. 21 And now, when I'm in Staten Island University 22 Hospital South Shore, after that whole night, 23 they're sending him home. 24 I said: But how are you going to send him 25 home? 1 "Well, we only treat alcohol here. We have 2 an affiliate across the street. You can bring him 3 tomorrow morning to the affiliate." 4 Now, I don't want to bring him tomorrow 5 morning. I don't want him back home. He needs to 6 be locked up. 7 You know, he needs -- in that type of 8 state -- and that's the other issue is, the age. 9 Well, he's of -- you know, "We can't tell you 10 anything where he is. He's of the age, where, you 11 know, he can do what he wants to do when he wants to 12 do it, and that's it." 13 So the problem is -- and the other thing is, 14 too, with the insurance, I had the same problem with 15 the insurance company, where they were telling me -- 16 I said: I need to have him put in at least for 17 28 days. He needs help. He's got to be someplace 18 and be helped for 28 day, at least. 19 That's what's in my head. 20 "That's not the way it is anymore, sir. We 21 do it every seven days, we re-evaluate them. And if 22 it's medically -- if it's deemed that he no longer 23 medically needs that type of service, he's 24 released." 25 Dynamite Youth Center in Brooklyn, they took 1 my son at 23. They say 23 is the cutoff. 2 But, he goes away for a year. 3 "He's upstate now. You can't have contact 4 with him for six months. When he earns the right to 5 his behavior, he'll be allowed to call you at home." 6 And, eventually, they let him come home -- 7 after the second six months, he could come home on 8 the weekends, if he deserves it. 9 He requests it, we have to agree to it, and 10 then they'll let him come back, supervised, where 11 somebody else from the program has to come and stay 12 in my house with him. 13 And then in the second year, he's doing 14 outpatient, going to and from Brooklyn. He's not 15 allowed to work. He's not allowed to do anything 16 but recover. 17 And, eventually, you know, if everything goes 18 according to plan, he can resume his life; go back 19 to school, get a job. 20 But that's what people need, something like 21 that. 22 I mean, and I -- I feel so bad, because he 23 almost died, and I didn't want to put him in, away 24 for a year, when my friend told me about it. 25 My friend told me, "My son went there. They 1 sent him away for a year." 2 You know, I didn't think I had to go to that 3 extreme. But you do. 4 And it almost cost him his life. 5 So, you know, like I say, if some -- if this 6 is the epicenter of the problem, we need to have the 7 resources here to help people. 8 [Applause.] 9 SENATOR SAVINO: I certainly hope that your 10 son is successful this time. 11 Again, in listening to the personal stories, 12 you just reinforce what those in the profession 13 know: That you can't make someone get sober that 14 doesn't want to. 15 You can take them to rehab every week. If 16 they're not willing to participate, they're going to 17 relapse and relapse and relapse. 18 The challenge for people like us, and the 19 service providers and law enforcement, is to help 20 develop public policies to support families who are 21 going through this. Make sure the resources are 22 there. Make sure that the treatment programs match 23 it. 24 But in the end, we need cooperation from the 25 addicts, and that's the hardest part. And I wish we 1 could legislate that. 2 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Can I say something? 3 AUDIENCE MEMBER: [No microphone 4 used/inaudible.] 5 SENATOR BOYLE: If I could, that is actually 6 the other issue I was going speak to, is mandated 7 treatment. 8 Now, the fact is, in New York State, we don't 9 even have mandated treatment for minors, forget 10 about people of age. 11 And I think that that is one of the areas of 12 legislation we're looking at, we've heard about. 13 And we hear stories of kids, 15, 16 years 14 old, they walked out of treatment and the treatment 15 provider said: Oh, we can't stop them. 16 Well, you should -- you have to be able to 17 stop them, as parents, to mandate treatment. 18 For those above age, obviously, we have 19 Kendra's Law, mandating medicines for those in 20 psychiatric -- with psychiatric problems who are a 21 danger to themselves and others. 22 Well, we may have to look at something like 23 that for addiction services, as well. 24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: [No microphone 25 used/inaudible.] 1 [Multiple audience members speaking at 2 the same time.] 3 SENATOR BOYLE: I understand. 4 We have some cards. If you have something 5 that you'd like to say, please, our staff person, 6 right over here, will give you a card, and we can 7 ask questions. 8 I'd just like to turn it over, quickly, 9 unless my colleagues have something else on this 10 issue, to the law-enforcement aspect of things. 11 SENATOR LANZA: And can I just, sort of, a 12 little more than midway through here, I just want 13 to -- I just would like to make a comment. 14 First of all, I think this is very helpful. 15 And we're here to learn from each other, and 16 really get a better picture of the problem. 17 You know, there are two components here: 18 There's, first, what do we do to stop this 19 from happening to begin with? 20 And we want to see whether or not, 21 legislatively, or otherwise, we can make a run at 22 making these drugs less available, changing 23 behavior, more education. 24 And then, in terms of those who have become 25 victims of addiction, we want to know -- see what 1 more we can do about this. 2 And I want to say this, and I know this is 3 very emotional for all of us: 4 I'm the parent of three young children here 5 on Staten Island. 6 And as I went through the research for 7 I-STOP, together with Assemblyman Cusick, I can't 8 tell you, every night, I just -- I couldn't sleep. 9 I was horrified. 10 And, I'm still in a state of continued fear, 11 knowing what's happening out there in our schools 12 and backyards and at parties, all across 13 Staten Island, and all across the state. 14 And it's not just Staten Island. It's a 15 national epidemic. 16 But I want to say this: 17 No one has that one magic solution; no one in 18 the audience, no one at this panel. 19 Because if someone did, we wouldn't be here 20 today. 21 But the reason we're here, is because 22 everyone you see on this panel is a piece, a 23 potential part, of the solution. 24 And everyone here on the panel has a certain 25 expertise. 1 And everyone here, more importantly, on this 2 panel, wants to help, and that's why they're giving 3 their time here. 4 And that's what this is all about. 5 And the same from those in the audience. 6 So this is good, I think, because we're here 7 to learn from each other. But this is not about -- 8 in my opinion, this is not about saying who is not 9 doing something, or who -- because people have 10 different roles. 11 And there is not -- this is going to take all 12 of us, truly, to come together, and come up with a 13 comprehensive solution so that we can make inroads 14 to this very devastating problem. 15 AUDIENCE MEMBER: [No microphone used.] 16 I just have one question [inaudible]. 17 I would like to know, what is in place, what 18 role do you guys play, that is going to [inaudible] 19 at the source, rather than wait until there's a 20 problem? 21 You know, these people are trying desperately 22 to get help. 23 What are you guys doing in front of that, to 24 stop it? 25 Because these kids are finding it so easily 1 available. And I'm finding it really hard to 2 believe that nobody is interceding before it gets to 3 them. 4 ASST. CHIEF EDWARD DELATORRE: Okay, from the 5 NYPD, let me just start with where the problem 6 appears to have surfaced out here on Staten Island. 7 We first noticed a dramatic increase in 8 arrests for pills in 2011. 9 If you look at 2010, going up to last year, 10 the arrests we made for people with pills increased 11 more than tenfold. 12 The heroin, although a lot of people like to 13 think that the pills are dropping off and the heroin 14 is increasing, I know from our narcotics 15 investigations, that is supported, to some degree. 16 But, overall, when we look at our overall 17 arrests here on Staten Island, the heroin arrests 18 really started to explode last year. 19 We saw, it doubled in 2012. 20 But in 2013, we saw a dramatic increase. 21 And we're watching that trend go into 2014. 22 So going into 2014, we're seeing a lot more 23 heroin out there, as well. 24 But, I can't tell you that we're seeing a big 25 drop-off in the pills. 1 We know it's not as readily available. 2 We know that the I-STOP, I believe we call 3 it, program, has really had an impact on our 4 pharmacies. Our major cases, you know, we don't 5 have as many of them as we did before. 6 But we have two problems now: We have the 7 pills and we have heroin, and they're both big 8 problems. 9 So now I'm going to work back into what we're 10 doing about it. 11 So one of things I know you heard mentioned, 12 is that we're using the naloxone now. 13 The naloxone is a spray that, pretty much, 14 puts on hold the effects of the overdose. It 15 doesn't stop it. It just puts it on hold for a 16 short period of time so we can get the person to the 17 hospital. 18 We did pilot it, starting this year, in the 19 120 Precinct, which basically services the 20 North Shore Area. 21 And in two months' time, we had three saves 22 that were, what I would call "bona fide saves," 23 where the subject or the patient actually stopped 24 breathing. And the officers were there in time, 25 administered the spray. In most cases, it had to 1 administer it twice. But, it snapped the person 2 back, they became coherent. We got them to the 3 hospital, and they were saved. 4 We had another incident where we did use it, 5 but the person was not suffering from an overdose. 6 It was something else, apparently. But even in that 7 case, it seemed to make them a little more alert. 8 But in all four cases, nobody died on us, so 9 we did get them medical treatment. 10 So, right now, we're in the process of 11 training all the officers on Staten Island, all the 12 uniformed officers that respond, and the narcotics 13 officers that deal with the narcotics, you know, 14 narcotics enforcement directly. 15 I would suggest that -- and, again, I got to 16 say this before I go any further: 17 To the Hunt family, to the Crupi family, 18 I can't imagine the pain you're living with now. 19 I'm a father of five. 20 Right now, I worry about my four-year-old 21 running into the street. And we live with these 22 fears all the time. 23 I'm not at the point -- my kids are all in 24 grammar school. I'm not at the where I have to 25 worry about drugs. 1 But I can see that that worry has to continue 2 through those years, and you have to look for the 3 signs. 4 And I'm learning this here. 5 You know, I'm taking off my chief hat and 6 putting on my father hat here, and I can see the 7 fear that I'm going be living with as my kids become 8 teenagers. 9 And to those of you who are living with it 10 actively now, you know, I wish I had some answer. 11 I do know that other people that are very 12 close to me have dealt with it in that very extreme 13 way. They've taken large pension loans, and shipped 14 their children out of state, got them into in-house 15 treatment for up to a year, then halfway for another 16 year. Then let the kids come back to New York for 17 two to three years. 18 And when they did come back to New York, 19 their environment had changed, and they have had 20 some success in those areas, from what I've seen. 21 PATRICK TREVOR [ph.]: Hello, I'm -- 22 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: [No microphone 23 used/inaudible.] 24 ASST. CHIEF EDWARD DELATORRE: I'm still 25 working on it. I am working on it. 1 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: [No microphone 2 used/inaudible.] 3 PATRICK TREVOR [ph.]: -- my name is 4 Patrick Trevor [ph.]. I'm 21 years old. And, I 5 just want to mention that I have 18 months clean 6 right now. 7 [Applause.] 8 PATRICK TREVOR [ph.]: I also would like to 9 say that it is Suboxone-free, it is methadone-free. 10 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Good for you. 11 PATRICK TREVOR [ph.]: And I know -- 12 I know -- 13 Thank you. 14 [Applause.] 15 PATRICK TREVOR [ph.]: Yes, I understand that 16 that is an option, and that may have worked for you. 17 But I also know 125 other people, that are my 18 friends, between the ages of 17 and 25, that are 19 also doing it. 20 And I hear so much about the negative here 21 today, and I wanted to mention a little bit of the 22 positive. 23 I'm a member of Dynamite. It is also known 24 as "Dynamic Youth Community." 25 I also have gone to 17 different programs, 1 and had to battle with the insurance companies. 2 And, in the beginning, I can honestly say 3 I didn't want it. But at the point when I did want 4 to achieve sobriety, the insurance companies 5 wouldn't help me do it. 6 I would be recommended by a medical official 7 to go to, say, a three-month program, and the 8 insurance would pay for two weeks. 9 Then I would only go for two weeks. 10 And I never got a fighting chance, until 11 I found Dynamic Youth Community, which I can 12 honestly say, for me, a severe heroin addict, was 13 the best option, and that it is possible. 14 And I want to give all of the parents here 15 hope about how possible it is, because I am -- I'm 16 it. I'm here with friends that are it. 17 And I feel your pain, and I agree with you, 18 I have to say: That there are other options of how 19 to do it. There's so many different things. 20 Me, I was first introduced to the pills, 21 I was a lacrosse player, and I shattered my thumb, 22 and the doctor prescribed me Roxicodone. 23 Didn't tell me how addictive it was. 24 What he said was, "You got the good stuff." 25 So that just shows me, almost, how the doctor 1 wasn't even educated on it. 2 That's 100 percent true. It's amazing that 3 he would say that. 4 After that, a friend showed me: Oh, you can 5 sniff these, you can get high. 6 I enjoyed the feeling. I thought, Oh, this 7 can't take a hold of me. 8 By the time I couldn't afford it, I started 9 doing heroin, to the point where I was shooting 10 heroin; where I had lost everything; where I had 11 gone to jail; where I had stolen from my family. 12 And then I found Dynamite. 13 It brings -- it makes me emotional thinking 14 about how much they have actually helped me. 15 And how I can't stress how there is other 16 options, and how funding these programs is what 17 keeps me alive, and what keeps all these other 18 children or young adults, living healthy, productive 19 lives. 20 Dynamite isn't just a rehabilitation program. 21 It also taught me how to hold a job, how to be 22 responsible, how to be a caring person. 23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: [No microphone 24 used/inaudible.] 25 PATRICK TREVOR [ph.]: What? 1 AUDIENCE MEMBER: How to speak properly. 2 PATRICK TREVOR [ph.]: How to speak properly, 3 yes, they did teach me that, I've got to say. 4 How to present myself. 5 They taught me all of these life lessons that 6 I actually didn't learn in the 38 programs. 7 Sure, I learned about the addiction. And I'm 8 sure, yes, people do understand it, and they do get 9 it. 10 But I learned everything else that comes with 11 life. "Everything." 12 Now I know how to look back at my feelings, 13 and how to figure out why I wanted to get high. 14 And, now, how positive a future I have. 15 And, right now, I'm actually going to bring 16 up another friend of mine, Michael, who actually 17 was -- he is one of my peers, and he's doing the 18 exact same thing as me. 19 [Applause.] 20 MIKE FLYNN: My name is Mike Flynn. I'm from 21 the south shore of Staten Island. I grew up in 22 Connorville. 23 I want to speak on behalf of, even the detox 24 at the Staten Island University Hospital. 25 I was not admitted there after having a 1 horrible heroin addiction. "Horrible." 2 All right? 3 I overdosed, I think, couple of hours prior 4 to trying to go there with my mother. They would 5 not accept me. 6 I was told to, basically, go out, drink, or 7 get loaded up on Xanax, so I would test positive, so 8 they would take me in. 9 All right? 10 So that's what I had to do. 11 My mother stayed with me in a car in the 12 parking lot, and telling me to "do whatever you have 13 to do to get yourself in there." 14 On behalf of, like, 28-day programs, I worked 15 for the City at one point and I was sent to 16 28-day programs that are accessible to the cops, 17 firemen, all that other stuff. 18 After -- 19 BRIAN HUNT: Was that the Villa? 20 MIKE FLYNN: -- Malworth [ph.], they call it 21 "The Farm." Maybe the cops know it up there. 22 But -- so I go there. I was there multiple times 23 within a 6-month period, basically, after I started 24 IV'ing drugs. 25 By the second time I was there, they told me 1 that there is no possible way that they could help 2 me. They discharged me after two weeks. 3 They told me that I had an anxiety disorder 4 and depression, and that I needed to, basically, 5 leave, and go seek medication and therapy outside 6 of, you know, what they could do for me. 7 This was supposed to be, you know, one of the 8 top rehabilitation centers probably on the 9 east coast, and this is what was told to me. 10 So, that's what I did. 11 Shortly after that, lost my job. Started 12 getting arrested for the first time in my life, and 13 wound up in jail, Rikers Island. 14 Never thought I would be there. And I come 15 from very blue-collar, working-class family. And 16 that was never in the cards. 17 And, that's what happened. 18 After being there for a month, I was given an 19 option by the courts to go to, you know, a program 20 or take a prison sentence. 21 All I knew was that -- I really had no hope 22 at that point, but all I knew was that, it was 23 either I was going to do something or I was going to 24 die. 25 I was hopeless. I was down on my knees, you 1 know. There was times where I just -- I wish that's 2 what it came to me, because that would have easier 3 than what I was doing. 4 And, I wound up at Dynamite. 5 And I can say, over and year and half later, 6 life's good again. Working. I got probably 7 60 pounds heavier than I've ever been, you know. 8 I was, like, my cheeks were sunken in. I was 9 like -- you know. 10 And, just, life's good again. 11 But it wasn't because of short-term 12 treatment. It was because I went away to a 13 long-term treatment, that I have all these 14 opportunities that I did now. 15 When I was 18, I was put on Suboxone, because 16 that was supposed to be the cure. 17 The doctor told me: Take this, and just go 18 about life. You know, you go to therapy once in a 19 while, everything's going to work out. 20 Yeah, it worked for like two years, and 21 I achieved a lot. As soon as I went off of it, back 22 to drugs, because I didn't know how to deal with 23 anything. It was a substitution. 24 There's ways to go about it. 25 And what she [indicating] had to say today, a 1 lot of other people, the people that experienced it, 2 they know what they're talking about. 3 And no offense to anyone up there, but, 4 unless you lived it, you really can't have, you 5 know, the right perspective on the matter. 6 [Applause.] 7 BRIAN HUNT: To that gentleman that just 8 spoke, I wish I had the opportunity to continue to 9 experience it. I wish my son was alive so I can 10 work with him in getting clean. 11 I don't have my son anymore, so I don't -- 12 that's a bad thing for me. 13 My son went to the Villa Veritas upstate in 14 Kerhonkson, New York. He went for a 28-day program; 15 intense program. 16 He didn't get it. 17 They wouldn't let him out. Said you have to 18 go for another 28 days. 19 He stayed there for two months. He finally 20 got it. 21 He came out. 22 You have to go to your meetings. 23 You had to do 90 meetings in 90 days. That's 24 intense. And you have to work the program. And you 25 have to get a sponsor. 1 If you don't do that on the 28-day program, 2 it's not going to work at all. You can't do it 3 alone. 4 You have to go to your programs, you have to 5 go to your meetings. You have to have a sponsor; 6 someone to look after you. 7 So, God bless you, for you two gentlemen, for 8 doing what you're doing. 9 Stay strong, and I hope you live a very long, 10 prosperous life. 11 [Applause.] 12 BRIAN HUNT: I wanted to -- can I just, one 13 thing, I want to get back to this young lady right 14 here. 15 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I'm sorry. 16 BRIAN HUNT: Yeah, I'm sorry. 17 SENATOR LANZA: So there was a question to 18 law enforcement. 19 Let me -- before we go back there, let me 20 remind everyone, as I said before, everyone here is 21 part of the solution, not the entire solution. 22 With respect to what law enforcement is 23 doing, we're very fortunate here on Staten Island. 24 I can speak now as a former prosecutor from 25 the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, 1 I prosecuted hundreds of drug cases. 2 Law enforcement, they can do two things: 3 They enforce the laws that we have on the 4 book, criminally. 5 And you hear, also, as the chief was saying, 6 they're now training themselves to deal with, when 7 they respond as first responders, to save those 8 lives. 9 But they're not part of treatment. They're 10 not part of the more -- you know, some of the other 11 things we're talking about here. 12 And I could also tell you their jobs are made 13 more difficult by the mixed signals we in society 14 are sending. 15 I can't tell you, my work on I-STOP, how many 16 Staten Islanders called my office, to tell me that 17 drugs should be legalized. That this was the wrong 18 approach. 19 Many Staten Islanders called to say that, and 20 e-mailed, to say they ought to be legalized. 21 As a prosecutor, I can tell you, how many 22 instances prosecuting drug-sale crimes in Manhattan, 23 when the criminal justice system would treat them as 24 if they were shoplifters. 25 To me, you sell heroin, you're a murderer. 1 So it's very difficult, the climate, in which 2 our law enforcement is operating. 3 But I'll let them tell you what they're doing 4 on Staten Island. And they are being very dynamic 5 in trying to address this growing crime, from their 6 perspective, the crime. 7 ASST. CHIEF EDWARD DELATORRE: I will. 8 I will, two seconds. 9 So what I was saying, then, is now -- so now 10 we move to the prevention side. 11 So we have a lot of programs. Not treatment, 12 because, he's correct, we don't treat. But there is 13 a treatment component to our enforcement, and I'll 14 get to that in a minute. 15 On a prevention side, we go after youth, and 16 we have programs. We have what we call the 17 "Youth Police Academy." It's been in New Dorp High 18 School. We're opening up a second one now up on the 19 north shore here, as well, in Curtis High School, 20 where we take in about 130, 140 kids. 21 We have -- that's the YPA (Youth Police 22 Academy). 23 We have Law-Enforcement Exploring, which we 24 engage teenagers, from ages 14 to 21, in every 25 precinct, including the new 121 now. They have a 1 program there, as well. 2 We have a Law-Enforcement Exploring Academy, 3 where we take kids away for a three-week boot camp: 4 two weeks in Fordham University, and a third week up 5 in 10-Mile River Campground. 6 And during this entire time, they're being 7 mentored and trained by NYPD, DEA, Customs agents, 8 FBI agents. The counselors in these programs are 9 all law-enforcement people. 10 So we're engaging youth at a younger age, 11 trying to help mentor, trying to assist parents in 12 mentoring, and giving them some positive role models 13 outside of what they're seeing on the street. 14 We have many, many other programs here. 15 And Lorraine Marin [ph.] from the Community 16 Affairs Bureau is standing on the side of the room. 17 And anybody who wants more information about 18 it after the meeting, please go over to her. 19 And if you want your children, your younger 20 children, in the same families affected right now, 21 if you have younger children, I would strongly 22 encourage you to go over and see her, and find out 23 what programs we have for the younger children, too. 24 I can tell you, for the younger children, I'm 25 sure you're aware, they're suffering by seeing the 1 older sibling go through this, as well. 2 Now, I move on to the enforcement aspect. 3 Captain Dorazio here is going to talk about 4 what we do with the drug dealers. 5 Because, obviously, these drug dealers are 6 selling, they're affecting the lives of hundreds and 7 hundreds of people. We finally get them, 8 something's got to happen. 9 But the other part is, for the drug users 10 that we're arresting so many of, as well, on the 11 island, is Dan Donovan and the DA's Office has this 12 court, a drug court. 13 And I -- Karen is here from the DA's Office, 14 and she'll be able to expand on what the drug court 15 does to kind of force treatment on many people. 16 Go ahead, Captain. 17 CAPTAIN DOMINICK DORAZIO: Thank you all for 18 inviting me today. I appreciate it. 19 What I wanted to say to you is, obviously -- 20 well, let me start by saying: 21 I'm not positive I can offer you the answer 22 that you want, because a lot of what we do, you 23 know, cannot be discussed in an open forum. You 24 know, this is not appropriate time to discuss that. 25 However, speaking specifically of my unit, 1 and the problem that we've discussed here today, and 2 Dr. Messina accurately described how this problem 3 has affected -- you know, this problem that we're 4 talking about today with regards to narcotics, has 5 affected, primarily, the south shore and 6 middle island. 7 Typically, you know, what I could say is 8 that, the way we allocate our resources, we are much 9 more dedicated to tackling the problem in that area. 10 Typically, narcotics, when we prioritize the 11 allocation of our resources, it is -- we tend to 12 prioritize the areas that are prone to violence. 13 And while this is a public-health crisis, the 14 violence associated, it has not been associated with 15 pill trade, and even heroin, on the south shore. 16 However, our union has recognized the 17 public-health emergency, and we have shifted our 18 focus, where, without ignoring the areas of 19 Staten Island that are prone to violence, we're able 20 to enforce, you know, more aggressively in the areas 21 that are, you know, being affected by this and may 22 not be as prone to violence. 23 The south shore, you know, the Princess Bay 24 area, you know, even middle island and the 25 south beach area, these -- you know, which really 1 isn't the south shore, but, you know, these areas 2 that are primarily affected by this. 3 What my unit does, obviously, we are a very 4 proactive unit. We conduct daily enforcement. 5 We're out there, you know, seven days a week. 6 And a lot of what we do is responding to the 7 complaints that you all make. Sometimes 8 anonymously, sometimes in writing, sometimes, you 9 know, however you make -- you know, direct to the 10 precinct, you know, we respond directly. 11 Now, when you make these complaints, you may 12 expect instant gratification. 13 But the way my unit works, that instant 14 gratification not possible. 15 In order to build a strong case, and the 16 DA's Office could attest to this, you know, we can't 17 just go out there and say, you know: There's the 18 problem, make the arrests, and the problem's solved. 19 We have to build a case, so, we do more 20 intense investigations. 21 We don't just -- you know, we do daily 22 buy-and-bust enforcement, also. 23 But, you know, the bulk of what we do, and we 24 try and do, is try to infiltrate these individuals 25 and these groups that are selling the stuff, and, 1 you know, bring them to justice, so to speak. 2 But, it doesn't take -- it doesn't take, you 3 know, a day. Sometimes it could take weeks, 4 sometimes it could take, you know, more, to develop 5 the information that we need to get to where we want 6 to get. 7 I will say this: 8 My unit has -- you know, we talked about the 9 I-STOP program. I'm just comparing this year to 10 last year. 11 In 2013, compared to 2014, we have seen a 12 precipitous drop in the amount of pills that are out 13 there. 14 You know, 44 percent, obviously, that hasn't 15 translated across the borough. Chief Delatorre's, 16 you know, information is 100 percent accurate. 17 But in my unit, we've seen a precipitous drop 18 in the amount of pills. 19 Unfortunately, that drop has been 20 commensurate with the increase in heroin. 21 So, where we see a 46 percent drop in pill 22 seizures, we're seeing a 44 percent increase in 23 heroin seizures, from -- you know, from last year to 24 this year. 25 And when you go back two years, I mean, it's 1 like almost 100 percent, the increase in heroin that 2 we're seeing. 3 So, we're effective out there. We're getting 4 the heroin that we can, we're getting the pills that 5 we can. 6 And just to speak to that I-STOP program, 7 personally, how I feel about it: 8 You say, Well, if that I-STOP program is 9 working, why are we seeing so much heroin? 10 Well, I would say this: I would say that 11 those probably aren't new users. 12 That -- that the amount of pills that were 13 available between 2009 and now, you know, you may 14 have created a whole generation of new users. 15 Now, to see the effectiveness of I-STOP, 16 I think you'll see that in the years to come, where 17 these kids -- and he spoke to it, and the young men 18 back there spoke to it, I don't think these kids are 19 going to make the jump to heroin without the pills. 20 So as the I-STOP program takes effect, so to 21 speak, and the pills start drying up, the next 22 generation, so to speak, you know, won't have that 23 same problem. 24 That's my own personal opinion on the 25 effectiveness. I think it's great program. And it 1 is working. I mean, we have seen a tremendous 2 decrease. 3 I hope I offered you some kind of an answer 4 there, you know, and -- you know, did the best 5 I could there. 6 Thank you. 7 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you very much, Captain. 8 I'd just like follow up, along those lines, 9 with the District Attorney's representative, Karen. 10 Around the different parts of the state, it 11 seems that we're getting different answers from 12 different prosecutors' offices. 13 Are the laws strong enough now? 14 When you get a case from the law enforcement, 15 and you have someone dealing with 50 bags, 100 bags, 16 200 bags, do you say: Okay, we can give him a 17 felony as a drug dealer? 18 Now, obviously, we make the dichotomy between 19 those people who are selling because of their 20 addiction themselves, to get their own drugs, or, 21 those purely dealing drugs. 22 How do you feel about the current laws? 23 KAREN VARRIALE: The current laws, as they 24 state, have actually reduced the mandatory state 25 prison sentence for even second-time felony 1 offenders. 2 So the -- what used to happen in the early 3 days before the Drug Law Reform Act, was that, if 4 you were facing a second felony offense: 5 You had to go to state prison; 6 Or, you could go into our "drug-treatment 7 alternatives to prison" program: Do 18 months 8 inpatient, 6 months outpatient, followed by a 9 misdemeanor, to avoid your state-prison sentence. 10 Now you don't have to do that. 11 Our numbers in that program decreased so much 12 once they -- when the law was changed. 13 That being said, we have also created the 14 Staten Island Treatment Court for first-time felony 15 offenders; Staten Island Treatment Court for 16 misdemeanor offenders. Also, they're outpatient, 17 mostly, programs. 18 But if there's a failure, the Court will 19 either sentence, a punishment, some jail, back to 20 treatment. And it changes. 21 We've also created -- our office has created 22 a program called "Drug Cap," which is for 23 first-time, usually, pill offenders; where, you have 24 to go to a panel similar to this, some law 25 enforcement, recovery, those grieving a loss, and 1 listen to the stories of where you could end up. 2 It's that future look. 3 And that's -- will let you get off without a 4 criminal record so you can still stay with a clean 5 slate. 6 But it's not only for drug users -- drug 7 offenses. We offer these programs to anyone who has 8 the addiction, if you qualify. 9 If you're burglarizing, you know, a 10 commercial establishment because you need to feed 11 your addiction, you can still qualify. 12 The only people who generally don't qualify 13 are violent offenders. 14 But back to the generation change in I-STOP, 15 because, now, we are seeing the heroin, which is 16 unfortunate, it makes my life a little easier. 17 I don't have to battle the "I have a prescription" 18 defense. 19 You have heroin, it's automatically unlawful 20 and it's much easier to prosecute. 21 But, I'll tell you, the judges, as well, and 22 we as a prosecutor's office, would rather treat the 23 offender than punishment them, because if you are 24 truly an addict, you're not going to be any better 25 after six months in prison or jail. You need to 1 face that problem and deal with it. 2 So our programs are the first place we go. 3 And we work hand-in-hand with 4 Captain Dorazio's unit for those complaints that 5 I get. I could make a phone call, and he's on it 6 the next day. 7 So we are doing as much as we can at the 8 front of enforcement, as well, in our 9 investigations. We work with them from the 10 beginning. We target the areas, and we work every 11 day with the investigators. 12 So that's what we're doing. 13 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you very much. 14 And one final area in law enforcement, 15 Special Agent Hunt, on Long Island we see the heroin 16 coming up from the cartels and out to Long Island. 17 Is it a similar situation here on 18 Staten Island? Or do you know, where the big drugs 19 are coming from, the big numbers? 20 JAMES J. HUNT: Yeah, I think it's important 21 to note that New York is, and always has been, a hub 22 for heroin distribution in the United States. 23 20 percent of all DEA seizures of heroin are 24 here in New York. 25 What is -- what's been happening in the last 1 seven or eight years, that's changed the trafficking 2 somewhat is, is the Mexican crime groups are 3 flooding New York with heroin. 4 In all cities. 5 The gentleman talked about Vermont before. 6 It's all over the city. We're -- we seized 7 70 kilos of heroin since January 1st here in 8 New York. That's an ungodly amount of dope. 9 It's not putting a dent in them. They just 10 have more cars, more trucks, crossing the border. 11 What we get, we get. 12 What they get through, hits the streets. 13 They're trying to create a bigger market for 14 heroin. 15 These stories are sad. 16 I'm sitting here -- what people are going to 17 understand, you're not going to arrest yourself out 18 of this problem. 19 If you're a major drug trafficker here in the 20 United States, local and federal law enforcement are 21 very, very effective in catching you. The federal 22 and state prisons are filled with bad top-echelon 23 dope dealers. 24 You've got a short shelf life: You're going 25 to go to jail, or get killed. 1 The problem is, there's always going to be 2 some young punk underneath there that's willing to 3 take a shot. 4 So, as law enforcement, we sympathize, 5 empathize with parents who have gone through this. 6 There's no lower life than someone who would 7 sell poison to people. 8 And, law enforcement is doing what we're 9 supposed to do: we're locking up those bad guys. 10 But we're not going be able to save kids. 11 Parents, prevention, have to do that. These 12 kids got to be scared to death to even try it in the 13 first time. 14 These crime groups, as sophisticated as they 15 are, we're catching them. 16 "Chapo" Guzman, number one guy in the world, 17 wanted; DEA caught him. 18 So, they are getting caught, but, 19 unfortunately, right now, with the Mexican border 20 proximity to the United States, how porous it is, 21 they're flooding the market. 22 So parents, be beware. 23 The full intent is to get people hooked. 24 It's cheap. They're making it themselves 25 now. There's labs in Mexico now, where they used to 1 get all the time from the South Americans, 2 Columbians. They're actually going the poppy in 3 Mexico. They can convert it there in Mexico. 4 So, they're selling kilos of heroin for 5 $50,000. 6 30 years ago, when organized crime was 7 controlling it, it was $200,000 a kilo. 8 And it's more pure. 9 So that's what you're dealing with. 10 We are catching the bad guys, we're doing 11 everything we can, but, we're not going be able to 12 arrest ourselves out of this problem. 13 ASST. CHIEF EDWARD DELATORRE: You know, if 14 I can add just one comment? 15 I think early intervention, obviously, is 16 probably the best weapon a parent would have. 17 But, unfortunately, we put all our efforts 18 into raising these kids, and the last thing we want 19 to believe is that something's wrong. 20 And, we get it all the time. 21 I get calls from people: Chief, you know, my 22 kid's a good kid. They arrested my kid. The cops 23 are wrong. He was just holding it for his friend. 24 His friend gave it to him. 25 You know, I get it all the time. 1 People on drugs don't always tell the truth. 2 And the parents have to understand, whether 3 your son or daughter had the drugs and admitted it, 4 or was holding it for someone and admitted it, if 5 they're in that environment with other kids -- and 6 I heard this said already -- if they're in that 7 environment, with other kids that had drugs, you 8 have a problem. And you better get on it quick. 9 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you very much. 10 SENATOR LANZA: A comment, and then questions 11 from the audience that I have here. 12 We've talked about the I-STOP a number of 13 times here, and there's this notion that I think is 14 floating out there. 15 I don't want the information to be 16 misinterpreted. 17 So there's this notion that because I-STOP is 18 going to dry up the supply of access -- illicit 19 access to prescription pills, that, somehow, that is 20 why people are -- you know, we see heroin addiction 21 on the increase. 22 That's partially true, but not for the 23 reasons why people are saying. 24 Long before I-STOP came into being and became 25 law, we saw heroin use increase exponentially every 1 year. 2 And what we learned, and if you listened to 3 the stories of the young people out there, and what 4 you've heard, and I quoted the statistic before, 5 over 80 percent of the people who try heroin for the 6 first time were already addicted on prescription 7 drugs. "Over 80 percent." 8 So what we learned with this insidious 9 epidemic of prescription drugs is that, where 10 there's a certain barrier to entry with heroin, 11 there are many folks who would never try heroin, 12 because you have to go to a certain, behind some 13 building, and deal with a drug dealer on the street. 14 You would never do it. 15 We see by the thousands, young people are, 16 though, willing to try a pill, because it's 17 happening. 18 It's given to them by a friend. It's in your 19 medicine cabinet. It was prescribed by a doctor. 20 It has a nice label on it. We live in a society 21 where we think all the solutions are in that bottle. 22 And, so, that is why so many people, young 23 people, say: Why not? It's safe, I'll do it. 24 That is the gateway to the heroin, and that's 25 why we see the heroin explosion. 1 So our hope, my point here is, with I-STOP 2 drying up that supply, that we'll see fewer people 3 getting involved in the gateway to that -- to the 4 heroin epidemic. 5 There are a couple of questions, I'm going to 6 put them together. 7 The basic theme here, to law enforcement, is: 8 People are citing their own experiences, 9 whether it's at a train station or on the corner, 10 they see all the signs of the drug trade on the 11 street. 12 They know you're doing a good job. 13 I can tell you, they're doing an incredible 14 job. 15 Their question, though, is a question I have 16 as well: Do you have enough resources here on 17 Staten Island, in law enforcement, to tackle the 18 problem that we have on the streets? 19 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Should we all say "no" at 20 the same time? 21 CAPTAIN DOMINICK DORAZIO: I mean, with the 22 state of the department as it is right now, 23 I believe that we do have enough resources. I mean, 24 we are able to handle our workload, you know, pretty 25 effectively. 1 Obviously, you know, more personnel is 2 welcome. 3 I mean -- and I think that goes for the -- 4 I'm sure the Chief could attest to that, as far as 5 the patrol borough goes, as far as the narcotics 6 borough goes. 7 Yes, obviously, more personnel would make us 8 more effective, but I do think that we are able to 9 handle our workload with our current personnel. 10 SENATOR LANZA: There's a question from Fern. 11 Fern, why don't you -- Fern, why don't you -- 12 let's hear from you, instead of me reading this. 13 Introduce yourself, tell everyone who you 14 are. 15 FERN ZAGOR: Can I take back my card? 16 Because I forgot what I wrote. 17 [Laughter.] 18 FERN ZAGOR: Thank you for this opportunity. 19 I'm Fern Zagor. I'm the president and CEO of 20 the Staten Island Mental Health Society. 21 I'm also one of the co-founders of the 22 Tackling Youth Substance Abuse Initiative, and very 23 proud of the work that we do. 24 Staten Island Mental Health has a licensed 25 substance-abuse program, and we treat youth through 1 our teen center, about 200 substance-abusing youth, 2 and their families, every year. 3 But what we've learned is that, youth 4 beginning to experiment with alcohol and drugs, they 5 don't come to us, and they're not going to come us, 6 no matter how often they're referred to us. 7 They don't seek our help. 8 They need help on their own turf in their own 9 communities. 10 Current regulations don't allow this. 11 We can only provide early-intervention 12 programs and treatment services at licensed 13 locations. Makes it very difficult. 14 We know that if we reach out to the kids in 15 their community, we have a chance of engaging them 16 early on in their youth -- in their use, and perhaps 17 preventing them from increasing and becoming 18 addicts. 19 Licensing doesn't allow it, regulations don't 20 allow it, funding doesn't allow that. 21 Prevention services are usually 22 group-education approaches offered primarily in 23 school settings. This has limited, if any, effect 24 on youth in the community who are already using or 25 on the road to abuse. They kind of laugh it off. 1 You know, they're hearing things in the school. 2 It affects kids. 3 You know, there are kids that they're going 4 to grab early on, and they may learn, and that will 5 prevent them from using, and they're learning those 6 coping skills. 7 But those kids who are already experimenting, 8 that doesn't touch them. 9 So, again, we need those early-intervention 10 approaches that engage kids, one-on-one, in small 11 groups, in their community. 12 The regulations have to allow that, the 13 funding has to allow that. 14 We've done some of that work with 15 private-foundation money, and we know that it can 16 work at least for some. 17 Now, the public, the State, needs to be able 18 to follow suit and provide us with those kind of 19 prevention dollars. 20 Thank you. 21 [Applause.] 22 SENATOR LANZA: Michael, over here. 23 Thanks, Fern. 24 CAROL: [Speaking without microphone.] 25 My name is Carol. I'm a recovering 1 alcoholic, and I'm a teacher. 2 SENATOR BOYLE: Can you just -- it's for the 3 recording that we need the microphone. 4 CAROL: Oh, okay. 5 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you. 6 CAROL: And I was admonished for discussing 7 drug prevention in an eighth-grade class. 8 Talking to the kids about senioritis, and, 9 how, when they would leave -- you know, when you 10 come to school as kindergarten, you're adorable. 11 You're the bottom, everybody thinks you're so cute. 12 You get to fifth grade, you're the top 13 banana. 14 You go to junior high, you get squished like 15 a bug again. 16 You go to the eighth grade, you're the top 17 banana again. 18 Then you go to high school, you're squished 19 like a bug. 20 My daughter found pot at IS-75, which 21 I doubled my rent to get her to IS-75. 22 Pot was the gateway drug for her. 23 Xanax, she got at Tottenville High School. 24 So it was the best schools. It didn't matter 25 which shore: south shore or north shore. 1 And, I took her to Dynamite on Coney Island, 2 and I knew they will wouldn't take her. They told 3 her she wasn't enough of an addict because she 4 didn't use heroin or cocaine. 5 And, I have to tell you, treatment court 6 helped, and TASK helped. 7 And I don't know, is TASK still here? 8 Because -- 9 [Multiple people say "Yes."] 10 CAROL: Okay. 11 Because I was very involved with them. 12 It took her three years to graduate from 13 treatment court. Three years for a one-year 14 program. 15 She went upstate, she went to Daytop, 16 Forest Avenue. All of it, it didn't mean anything. 17 She loves pot. 18 Thank God, no pills. Scared the hell out of 19 her, but she thinks pot is the be-all, end-all. 20 And so does Cuomo. 21 I mean, we're hearing about legalizing it. 22 [Laughter.] 23 CAROL: You know, I was a certified drug 24 counselor before I was a teacher. State certified. 25 I was a SPARK counselor for 8 years at 1 Lincoln High School. So I know all about this 2 stuff. 3 And I have 38 years sober. 4 [Applause.] 5 CAROL: My daughter grew up in a 12-step 6 household. It didn't matter. 7 What mattered is what happened in school. 8 Not what happened in my drug cabinet, in this 9 drug cabinet, in the neighbor. 10 It was what was at school. 11 You want to feel better, at Tottenville, 12 there's a corner that they call the 13 "90-Degree Angle." Right across the street, and 14 they smoke dope. 15 And it was called "dope" in my day. Pot was 16 call "dope" because it made you dopey; because it 17 killed your brain cells. 18 And these kids, when they see it legalized on 19 TV, and they see these people, look what they look 20 like. "Oh, yeah man, it's now legal." 21 They look like a bunch of bums. 22 You don't see them well-dressed, saying, 23 "Oh, now it's legal." 24 [Laughter.] 25 CAROL: What I'm saying is, I was written up. 1 I'm a sub, I'm an ATR; one of those traveling 2 teachers, at a junior high, as a sub. Didn't have 3 time to do the regular busy work-lesson plan. 4 Talked to the kids about respect for each 5 other. About, as the world gives to you, that's 6 what you get back. Talked to them about senioritis. 7 About how, if kids fail, they want you to fail. 8 They want to pull you down with, stick with the 9 winners. 10 And I was admonished for non-professional 11 behavior, at a junior high right here on 12 Staten Island. 13 So I just -- I just came, and I ran from 14 school as soon as it was out, to get here. 15 I really appreciate that you're doing this. 16 You have no idea that I'm a fan of yours, 17 Senator Lanza. 18 [Laughter.] 19 [Applause.] 20 CAROL: Well, I know Susan very well. 21 I know your sister, and your wife. 22 [Laughter.] 23 CAROL: But, truly, prevention is the 24 schools. 25 [Applause.] 1 CAROL: All these treatment facilities, 2 they're not going to go unless there's prevention 3 from kindergarten, on up. 4 You want to talk about getting them ready for 5 college in kindergarten? That's a joke. 6 Get them ready to be drug-free in 7 kindergarten. 8 [Applause.] 9 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you. 10 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: I would like to say 11 something. 12 SENATOR BOYLE: You do bring up a good point. 13 And all of us in Albany are fans of 14 Senator Lanza, as well. 15 [Laughter.] 16 SENATOR BOYLE: And I'm not going tell your 17 daughter that you added her as a pot-smoker in front 18 of all of these law-enforcement officials. 19 [Laughter.] 20 SENATOR BOYLE: But you answered a good 21 question about the age. Appropriate age prevention. 22 And I'll ask the panelists up here: Do -- 23 anybody have an idea of what is age-appropriate? 24 Yeah, James. 25 JAMES FIORE, JR.: I would like to speak. 1 I know that, in my neighborhood, on the 2 south shore, in Annandale, and in many 3 neighborhoods, when we were growing up, there were 4 two things that we would -- well, we never said we 5 would do drugs. 6 But there's two things that we would never, 7 ever could conceive, and that is cocaine and heroin. 8 And what -- and I heard a woman ask, What can 9 be done for children at a young age, to prevent 10 this? 11 Prescription opiates need to be looked at as 12 heroin, as crack, because that's what they are. It 13 is synthetic heroin. 14 [Applause.] 15 JAMES FIORE, JR.: Thank you. 16 And at young ages, these pills need to be put 17 on this same category as these drugs. 18 Because I know that no kid in my 19 neighborhood, at the age that I took my first 20 Percocet, would take a bag of Coke or a bag of dope. 21 And, you know, I hate to be so blunt. 22 And, you know, I want to say one more thing: 23 You know, regarding Suboxone, it doesn't work 24 for everyone. It worked for me. 25 And, you know, long-term treatment may work 1 for some people, and outpatient may work for some 2 people, but there's a saying in recovery, and I'm 3 sure everyone's familiar with it: You can lead a 4 horse to water but you can't make it drink. 5 You know. 6 [Applause.] 7 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you very much. 8 Mic over here. 9 ANN: Hi, my name is Ann. 10 And, the very first thing I want to say is, 11 I'm extremely grateful for everyone in this room, 12 for all the humanity in this room, your interest in 13 this disease. 14 Candace, I want to thank you; all the 15 parents; everybody that's sharing their story. 16 But when I read your son's obituary, it blew 17 me out of the water, because I always wondered if 18 I would have the courage to say that. 19 Whenever I read those kids that are -- "died 20 at home," I know what it is, and I don't want to be 21 that parent. 22 I don't know, today I'm not, but I don't know 23 what tomorrow is going to bring. 24 I thought that was amazing courage, and it's 25 the first step -- 1 [Applause.] 2 ANN: -- not just all of us to say we have to 3 remove the stigma. But, anybody who says, it's very 4 difficult for me to say, my son is in recovery. 5 Totally, it was not in the script. Just, it was 6 impossible to happen to us, and it did. 7 And everybody can talk about it, but when you 8 put it in the paper, it was right out there for 9 everyone: This is a fact. This is life. This is 10 what's going on. 11 I thank you. 12 Thank you. 13 CANDACE CRUPI: You're welcome. 14 If more kids would see it, they'd be afraid, 15 maybe. 16 ANN: I'm sorry? 17 CANDACE CRUPI: I said, more kids should see 18 it, maybe they'd be more afraid. 19 ANN: That was the thing. 20 When I went to high school, they gave us one 21 tip: Go to heroin, there's no coming back. 22 And when my son was given Suboxone, he says 23 to me: Do you know that's the same thing they give 24 to people on heroin? 25 I was, like, What? You don't know this? 1 He's 29 years old. How did he miss this day 2 in school? I don't know. 3 But, anyway, it's a family disease, it's a 4 community disease. 5 And the thing that I'm struggling with today, 6 and I would like to leave today, maybe the medical 7 people could help me, is, my family members are on 8 board some days, and not on board other days. 9 And, when they get frustrated, and they're 10 busy with their own lives, they say: He chose to do 11 it. It's not a disease. He can stop if he wants 12 to. 13 And every day I have to remind myself, and 14 I have to be extremely patient: Patience beyond 15 patience. 16 And, I need the phrase or the words to say to 17 them, "It is a disease." 18 Sometimes I say, you know, your brother has 19 cancer. And some days he believes me, and some days 20 he doesn't. 21 I need the words to convince people, this is 22 a disease. 23 That's what I'm asking you. 24 [Applause.] 25 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Hi, I'd like to just offer 1 a response to you. 2 And I think one of the biggest things that we 3 need to do is education, because, without education, 4 there's no understanding. 5 So, maybe what you could impart to your 6 family and friends, is really providing them with 7 education that we give in programs, that you can get 8 on the Internet, that you can get in any of the 9 agencies here. 10 But education and prevention are really what 11 we need to do as a community. 12 SENATOR LANZA: Doctor? 13 DR. HILLARY KUNINS: Thank you for that 14 question. 15 I can just share with you what I've used in 16 my own practice, and in my own personal life, which 17 is, some of you heard this yesterday, is I find the 18 analogy of diabetes very useful in speaking to 19 people. 20 You wouldn't ask a diabetic to stop his or 21 her treatment with insulin, you wouldn't ask a 22 diabetic to start eating chocolate cake, and expect 23 it to go just fine. 24 It's just the same thing: It's a processing 25 problem in the body. 1 In this case, it's a substance, a drug, and 2 not sugar, but it's not that much different. 3 LUKE NASTA: As far as answering the question 4 about: Where do you go for information? How do you 5 get support? 6 Programs like the YMCA Counseling Service, 7 Camelot. 8 I'm not sure who else has family 9 associations. 10 But -- and it doesn't cost -- there's no fee 11 involved. They're weekly meetings, and you're there 12 with other family members who are going through the 13 struggle. 14 And you get educated, and you get support, 15 and you get the ammunition that you need to deal 16 with the problem in your home. 17 JACQUELINE FIORE: And there's programs 18 available for kids, too. 19 I mean, we talk all the time about this being 20 a family disease. 21 And it's often the brothers and sisters and 22 the little ones that are suffering in silence, and 23 they want to be good, so that they don't have to be 24 a problem for mom or dad like their brother or 25 sister. Or, they're crying out for attention by 1 being, you know, bad, quote/unquote. 2 So there's programs out there for the kids, 3 who can help them to find the words to express what 4 they're feeling. And, also, to arm them with coping 5 skills so that they can combat life on life's terms 6 later on in their own lives, and don't have to 7 travel down the road of their siblings. 8 SENATOR BOYLE: I would say, just before 9 coming here, I got a chance to tour YMCA, and the 10 Little Steps Program for the younger siblings was 11 very impressive. 12 DIANA DULCHE pph: Hi, my name is 13 Diana Dulche [ph]. 14 I started my journey because I wanted to help 15 myself heal. Not through drugs or any of that. 16 But I had ailments that I was told that 17 I needed operations, and I helped myself heal. 18 I had fourth-stage spondylolisthesis. 19 But my point is, we're given something, and 20 people say, you can't be cured, you know, unless you 21 get an operation. 22 Which, I don't believe in, and, I healed 23 myself. 24 When I was 37, I had fourth-stage 25 spondylolisthesis. I used to get out of bed like a 1 90-year-old woman. 2 So how I healed myself was, you know, getting 3 my core strong. 4 So this is my point, is: I started educating 5 as a holistic health practitioner. And I wanted to 6 open up a wellness center. 7 And I said: The body could always heal. No 8 matter what you do, you can always heal it. 9 And, you know, lo and behold, I was hit upon 10 with my son. He had the addiction to the opiates, 11 because he had a knee operation, and he got addicted 12 to the opiates. 13 And so, me, as studying as a holistic 14 practitioner I wanted to open up a wellness center, 15 "Feel great, one, two, three," because I believed 16 the body could heal. 17 And if you give it the right stuff, it can 18 heal. You have to get to the root. 19 Because no matter -- you can't heal with 20 drugs. You can't heal drugs with drugs. You have 21 to let the body heal itself. 22 So, you have to use alternative methods. You 23 have to use meditation. You have to use -- get deep 24 within yourself. You need to talk to a 25 hypnotherapist. You need to do whatever you need to 1 do with this. 2 But I don't feel that any one particular 3 thing could help. 4 But, if you try to meditate, or add -- add 5 these different things into society, to help, and 6 not look at it as an alternative method, because 7 these are things that God gave us, so they should be 8 the first method. 9 The way that people are eating, the 10 nutrition, sometimes it causes the neurotransmitters 11 to not be functioning properly. 12 Dehydration is actually one of the top causes 13 of the neurotransmitters not being proper. 14 So what do people do? What do the kids do? 15 They try to go for drugs that are going to 16 help the neurotransmitters get leveled. 17 So this is -- we're not looking in the right 18 direction. 19 We're not looking in the right direction. 20 We have to heal ourselves, from the root, 21 from the beginning, and, less drugs, and try to help 22 each other. 23 Thank you. 24 [Applause.] 25 SENATOR BOYLE: Mic. 1 ROBERTA THOMAS: My name is Roberta Thomas. 2 I'm a retired mental-health nurse. 3 I've worked with patients with substance 4 abuse in the course of my career, over 40 years. 5 And I also work with the Port Richmond 6 Community Emergency Response Team. 7 So I'm interested in knowing how I could 8 learn or be certified to provide emergency care if 9 we come upon someone who has an overdose. 10 But before you get into answering that 11 question, I just wanted to state that education is 12 the most important thing, but I think we start way 13 too late. 14 We need to start the way we start with our 15 children about smoking and how terrible it is for 16 them. We need to start in the fifth and 17 sixth grade. Teach them before they come across 18 people who are offering them things, before this 19 stage. Make them aware that how dangerous it is, 20 early on. 21 Don't wait till junior high and high school, 22 because that's when they want to do what everyone 23 else is doing. 24 They lose their independence. 25 They want to say: Oh, I want to be with the 1 group, so I'm going to do whatever they're doing no 2 matter how dangerous it is. 3 Get them before that stage. 4 And the other thing is, we talk about victims 5 all the time: What we're going to do to the 6 victims, and we're going to put them in jail, we're 7 going to put them in rehab. 8 What about these suppliers? 9 Not just the dealers. The ones above the 10 dealers that are bringing this crap into this 11 country, into our state, into our community, 12 destroying us, all our children. 13 This has to stop. 14 And we need to get to the suppliers. 15 I know that it goes on and on. You say, 16 Well, we arrest this one, we arrest that one, and 17 they still put many more coming along. 18 But what's the real root of this? 19 Those crops that they're growing in whatever 20 country they're growing it in, and bringing it over 21 here, this could be stopped. 22 If we can stop terrorists, we have to be able 23 to stop this. This is a terror on our community. 24 And that's all I have to say. 25 Just tell me about where I can get help in 1 getting certified. 2 [Applause.] 3 ADRIENNE ABBATE: So I just wanted to speak 4 quickly to this idea of education, and what age we 5 should start talking to kids. 6 Okay, the research shows that prevention 7 should begin in the earliest grades. And, what we 8 should be focusing on a lot is on life skills, and 9 how to develop coping mechanisms, and how to deal 10 with issues that are going to come along later in 11 life. 12 And these programs have been shown to reduce 13 substance abuse in youth, as teenagers, and above. 14 And, then, chose also to play a part on other 15 interrelated social issues, such as bullying and 16 suicide. 17 And, it's all interrelated. 18 So I know that the State Health Department is 19 overburdened, and that we spend so much time 20 preparing our kids, as you mentioned, to be 21 college-ready. 22 But we need to make a case that a mentally 23 healthy child is going to be a high-performing 24 child, so this really has to be a message that we 25 start early on. 1 And I want I want to defer to Chazie [ph.] to 2 talk about, there was a question specifically about 3 how to become a Narcan responder. 4 And we have partners in the community who are 5 going out and training members. 6 [Applause.] 7 DIANE ARNETT: So, uhm, Community Health 8 Action of Staten Island is one of the main agencies 9 on Staten Island that's actually certified as an 10 opioid-overdose prevention trainer. 11 And, so, we've been actually doing 12 presentations in the community, but you can also 13 call us. I'm going to have to look at my staff 14 about what number to call. 15 So, we do both group trainings for people 16 to -- and we train people, how to do -- how to 17 recognize an overdose, and then how to reverse an 18 overdose using in naloxone, which is a nasal spray 19 which actually will bring somebody out of an 20 overdose. 21 In the last week, I think we trained -- 50, 22 80 -- about 100 -- 75 to 100 people. 23 Both, we had a training at our office, and we 24 had our training at Our Lady Star of the Sea, with a 25 support group for parents and family members who are 1 affected by this issue. 2 So, I mean, people can come up and ask us 3 later. Some of my staff are here. 4 We can actually -- we can do it for 5 individuals, if individuals come to our office. 6 Or, if you have a group of people that want 7 to get this information, we can bring our staff to 8 do the training. 9 And it's very quick. It's not -- this is not 10 a 3-hour training. It's 45 minutes, at best. 11 We'll train you, and then we actually supply 12 people with the kits, to be able to do the overdose. 13 The same things that the NYPD is using and 14 that EMS uses. 15 SENATOR BOYLE: We also did a training in my 16 office, with my staff, Stevie and Krista here. We 17 had over 150 people doing it. 18 It is -- as a former EMT, I have seen Narcan 19 work, and it is a miracle drug. It gives people the 20 second chance that they need, to get into recovery, 21 and save lives, without a doubt. 22 And as was mentioned before, there's been 23 hundreds of lives saved here. 24 We also -- Senator Savino and Senator Lanza 25 and Assemblyman Cusick are going to be hosting a 1 training here on Staten Island, so I urge all of you 2 to attend. As was said, it's less than an hour, and 3 you'll be certified, you'll get a kit. 4 And, I hope you never have to use it, but if 5 you do need it, it will save a life. 6 AUDIENCE MEMBER: [No microphone used.] 7 Can I say something? 8 SENATOR BOYLE: Yes. 9 AUDIENCE MEMBER: [No microphone used.] 10 [Inaudible] put these commercials on smoking, 11 and showing people's lungs. 12 What about showing something -- on more 13 advertisements on television? 14 That's what most people will see. 15 BRIAN HUNT: Go back to the -- 16 AUDIENCE MEMBER: [Inaudible.] 17 BRIAN HUNT: What they should do is go back 18 to the fried egg. "This is your brain on drugs." 19 It says it all. 20 AUDIENCE MEMBER: [No microphone used.] 21 Yeah, I mean, really, there should be more 22 advertisements. This is such a critical situation 23 [inaudible] that shows really what we have, and 24 maybe it would scare the children. 25 [Inaudible.] 1 AUDIENCE MEMBER: [Inaudible.] 2 THOMAS: Hi, my name is Thomas, and I'm 3 coming up on two years clean in about two days, on 4 May 4th. 5 [Applause.] 6 THOMAS: And for me, I think a long program 7 is definitely necessary, because, I'm coming up on 8 two years, I'm still in the program in Dynamite with 9 them. And, you know, sometimes I still need help, 10 and I still go through hard times. 11 So I think a long-term program is definitely 12 necessary. 13 Even earlier in my program, when I was about 14 six months, you know, I still hadn't really made a 15 decision completely. 16 And it was months into the program, and I was 17 just coming up to making the decision of, "What do 18 I really want to do, and, you know, can I really do 19 it?" And the doubts were coming. 20 So, I think it's definitely necessary to be 21 in a program for a long time, away from home, with a 22 bunch of people. 23 You know, I was, like -- I was living there 24 for 13 months. 25 And, you know, now that I look back on it, it 1 was a great experience. 2 But, a little bit of my history: 3 I started using when I was 12. And, when 4 I was 12, I smoked pot for the first time, and 5 drank, and then I was mixing both. And then, before 6 that year ended, I was doing morphine and fentanyl, 7 at 12 years old. 8 And, you know, it just took over completely. 9 You know, I didn't have a care in the world. 10 And I think, you know, something you guys 11 were talking about before was: How could you 12 realize if your kid's doing drugs? 13 Personally, my personal experience, I think 14 it's really obvious. 15 At least in my case it was. It took me over 16 completely. 17 I didn't care about my mom, my dad, my 18 sister. I stole jewelry. I was, you know, acting 19 up in the house. 20 It was bad. It was really bad. 21 I just think that the options are good. You 22 know, there's all different ways of doing this. 23 My way was long-term. 24 I was doing heroin, LSD, when I was 17, 18, 25 all the time. 1 And, you know, I think that long-term for me 2 was necessary, but I think there's all different 3 paths in life for people who have addiction. 4 You know, I think -- I didn't use Suboxone, 5 but, I've seen people use Suboxone, and then come 6 off of it and do fine. 7 You know, so, I definitely respect the 8 different paths that everybody takes. 9 And, you know, I just -- I think we have to 10 work, really, as a team. No, like, one person can 11 do this. This finger shouldn't really be pointed at 12 one person. 13 You know, I think it's just a good thing that 14 we're all here together, trying to figure this out, 15 you know. 16 And, thank you, and I hope everybody has a 17 good day. 18 [Applause.] 19 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you very much, and good 20 luck in your recovery. 21 We've got one more? 22 Okay, let me just get some comments from -- 23 we've got people from the treatment and recovery. 24 Gary, or somebody else, in recovery, would 25 you like to -- 1 JACQUELINE FIORE: I wanted to say, the point 2 that Tom brings up is huge. 3 We know, and the research tells us, that a 4 whole -- having somebody go through the entire 5 continuum of care is going to be what works the 6 best. 7 Starting with a long-term intensive program, 8 and dropping down in intensity to a long-term 9 outpatient program, is really what is needed in 10 order to bring somebody with the severe level of 11 addiction into recovery. 12 And, as treatment providers, unfortunately, 13 we're just as frustrated as families at times, 14 because, what we know is going to work for somebody, 15 sometimes they can't see, sometimes the insurance 16 company can't see, sometimes the family member can't 17 see. 18 And we have to sit back and watch them travel 19 down a road that we don't want to see them travel 20 down. 21 And, we're sitting here today because we want 22 to be a part of the solution, along with you guys, 23 and we don't know all of the answers. 24 We need to hear you guys speak as openly and 25 honestly as you did today, because that's going to 1 be what helps us to make change. 2 We are speaking to these people every day 3 that we have the opportunity. 4 But, until they hear the real-life stories, 5 and the courage that you guys have had to share 6 those, is so impactful. 7 And I hope that you know that the time that 8 you spent here today is really going be what helps 9 us to make a change. 10 We need the power brought back into the 11 treatment-provider's hands. 12 We need to be able to tell insurance 13 companies: It doesn't matter what you think is 14 going to work. We know what's going to work. This 15 is what our tool has told us. 16 And that's what we need. 17 [Applause.] 18 ADRIENNE ABBATE: Thank you. 19 GARY BUTCHEN: Can I just build on that for a 20 moment? 21 I mean, in listening to all the frustration 22 and all the stories that have been expressed today, 23 I know from my dealings with the managed-care 24 companies, that their whole intent is the cost 25 shift. 1 So, the gentleman who paid out of pocket, the 2 time woman who drained her pension fund, the people 3 who go to Florida or Texas, that's an intentional 4 manipulation by the insurance companies, by the 5 managed-care folks, to cost-shift either onto the 6 State of New York, because when you go to Camelot or 7 Daytop or Dynamite, those programs are through 8 net-deficit funding, through the State. The 9 insurance companies, none of them, A through Z, pay 10 for that level of care. 11 So what I've been advocating for, and 12 attending these meetings, and meeting with the 13 Assemblymen and some of the Senators, is the 14 access-to-care bills. 15 I think defining "medical necessity" in 16 New York State will force the insurance companies to 17 abide by the rules, whether it's through enforcement 18 through DFS or any of the other branches. 19 I heard the frustration about getting into a 20 detox, getting into an outpatient. 21 I run an outpatient network. I didn't set it 22 up to fail. 23 My staff are all doctors, psychologists, 24 nurses, counselors. We didn't go to school so we 25 could sit across from somebody and say "Fail so that 1 you can get to a higher"... 2 We're not a conduit. 3 But, I understand the language that's being 4 spoken to families. I understand the frustration 5 that people are dealing with. 6 And when someone sits across from me, and 7 their family has finally got them in my door and 8 they desperately want to go to a higher level of 9 care, and the insurance company says, "Fail," their 10 intent is to fail. 11 It's a horribly frustrating situation. 12 New York State is so regulated. 13 I understand -- I don't agree, 14 I understand -- why someone can't get into an 15 inpatient detox. I understand why they can't get 16 into a rehab. 17 But when they go to New Jersey, they cross 18 the bridge, that program isn't in-network with any 19 insurance company. 20 So what they're doing is, they're billing the 21 hell out of your out-of-network benefit. You're 22 getting hit with deductibles, your copays, and all 23 your other bills. And you're draining your pension 24 funds. 25 They'll take you today, because they don't 1 have to worry about managed care or insurance, as 2 long as you're willing to put up your life savings. 3 You send them down to Florida, it's the same 4 thing. They have what they call the 5 "Florida model," which is all based on 6 out-of-network benefits. 7 They drain your inpatient, your outpatient; 8 your left, your right, your up, your down. 9 You come back to your community where you 10 live, you can't afford to come into a community 11 provider. 12 So whatever we can do as treatment providers, 13 whatever I can do as an advocate, to try to get 14 access-to-care bills passed in some way, some form, 15 that defines "medical necessity." 16 I think it's all about the cost shift, and it 17 would help a lot of the frustrations that you've 18 heard here today. 19 [Applause.] 20 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you very much. 21 Luke, would you like to say something? 22 LUKE NASTA: I mean, Senator Boyle, you're in 23 the right place on Staten Island, where this is an 24 ongoing funeral here. A week doesn't go by where we 25 don't hear about 19-, 23-year-olds, that say 1 "Good night," and come out of their parent's 2 bedrooms feet first. 3 That's the reality. 4 That's the reality of Staten Island. 5 There's many things, many things, that we 6 need to do here. 7 For one thing, the Staten Island community 8 needs to embrace the problem; that is, own the 9 problem, and, embrace and own the solution; so that 10 when the YMCA or Camelot or Daytop wants to open a 11 counseling service on New Dorp Lane, that we're not 12 tarred and feathered and run out of the community. 13 [Applause.] 14 LUKE NASTA: That's going to take a major 15 change. 16 And if we're going to confront and control 17 this epidemic, we're going to need to have, us, the 18 solution, available, and visible, throughout the 19 community. And more people will come for help. 20 Now, the gentleman over here, about -- you 21 know, Camelot has 45 beds on Staten Island, and 22 it's, pretty much, we're full. But, given the 23 nature of the population, it's an unstable 24 population, so the beds keep opening up. 25 But for the most part, you know, we can get 1 you a bed in a couple of days, or immediately. 2 And probably within two months, we're going 3 to open another 24-bed facility in the Port Richmond 4 section. 5 [Applause.] 6 LUKE NASTA: That's nice, but that took me 7 40 years to do that, you know. 8 And in that -- in that story is part of the 9 problem, why we're in the situation we're in today, 10 because we've been denying the extent of problem. 11 We've been resisting. 12 The first time -- our 45-bed facility is on 13 the grounds of the Sea View Hospital Campus. 14 The first time I went there, to propose using 15 one of the 75 vacant buildings that The City Health 16 and Hospitals Corporation controlled, was 1977. 17 And we opened up two years ago. 18 [Applause.] 19 LUKE NASTA: But at the rate of 50 to 20 70 people dying a year, how many could we have 21 possibly saved? 22 Now, and to address the criticism of, you 23 know, the YMCA or Camelot, or Suboxone, the research 24 indicates, "five attempts," five attempts -- 25 Doesn't want me to say "attempts." 1 [Laughter.] 2 LUKE NASTA: -- five attempts at treatment 3 before a patient stabilizes, before it works. 4 That's the average: five attempts. 5 So, we don't have a silver bullet. 6 We don't pretend to have a silver bullet to 7 slay the monster. 8 What we do have is commitment. 9 We've got commitment. We'll stay with you. 10 We'll take you back. We'll -- we're the medics on 11 the battlefield. We'll bring you in no matter what 12 condition you're in, and we'll try to -- we'll try 13 to restore you. 14 We have no control over the war, because 15 you're going back out there again. But we'll be 16 there for you. 17 And if it isn't Camelot, it will be the YMCA, 18 it will be -- it will be somebody. 19 But we need, we need support. 20 Now, I have a suggestion for Senator Boyle, 21 who's doing a fantastic job in addressing this for 22 New York State. 23 And -- 24 [Applause.] 25 LUKE NASTA: -- what I would suggest is -- 1 and I have been at this a long time, and I listened 2 to a lot of government double-talk. And it's a 3 disgrace that the Governor of the state of New York 4 has not acknowledged this problem yet. 5 Meanwhile, border states, like Vermont and 6 Massachusetts, their governors have declared a state 7 of public-health emergency. 8 I haven't heard anything from our Governor. 9 Okay, that's enough about him. 10 But what -- and, so, "his office," his office 11 is the state of -- is the Office of Alcoholism and 12 Substance Abuse Services. They consistently say 13 there are empty beds now. 14 That's a truth, there are empty beds, because 15 the system that was in place, because we couldn't 16 open up smaller operations, which would be more 17 effective, they just kept giving more money for more 18 beds to single organizations, so that you have 19 250-bed treatment programs. 20 Okay, those beds are not full on an ongoing 21 basis. 22 What I would suggest to Senator Boyle, is to 23 identify, have the State identify, those beds in the 24 large programs that are vacant for, whatever, 30, 25 60 days. Take that money, and dedicate it to 1 opening new, smaller programs, throughout 2 Staten Island, throughout the state. 3 It will be more effective as a treatment 4 program, and, it will be more visible; so, 5 therefore, it will be, also, approaching the whole 6 stigma problem, if there are more programs like 7 this. 8 And it doesn't necessarily have to cost the 9 State a lot more money to do that. 10 Early intervention, all right, how do we do 11 prevention? 12 I'm not real popular with a lot of people. 13 That's okay. 14 SENATOR SAVINO: We love you. 15 LUKE NASTA: Not always. 16 [Laughter.] 17 LUKE NASTA: The New York City Board of 18 Education is negligent on this issue. 19 Where is the last place -- 20 [Applause.] 21 LUKE NASTA: -- the last place that kids are 22 required to be, by law? School. High school. 23 They're required, by law, up until, what, 24 maybe age 16, when they could be signed out, to be 25 there. 1 So, why, when we have them in the place where 2 they're required to be, by law, don't we do 3 assessments of the -- and the entire enrollment, 4 four times a year -- by an independent group, by the 5 way, to do assessments so that there's no conflict 6 of interest there -- that would identify these 7 problems at a very early stage? 8 And how can you do that? There's simple 9 indicators. 10 As some of the parents said, when you notice 11 there's a change in your son's or daughter's 12 friends. 13 Okay, it's not going to -- that's not going 14 to show up in school. 15 But what will up in school is: Truancy. You 16 know, erratic attendance records. A shift in 17 achievements. 18 There are indicators, they're simple 19 indicators, that then -- that would flag that kid. 20 And that team could assess that identified child, 21 and find some problems out, and intervene early. 22 And maybe you find out that it isn't the 23 child that's got the problem, but the problem is in 24 the family. 25 AUDIENCE MEMBER: [No microphone used.] 1 [Inaudible] in high school, [inaudible] 2 graduated with almost a 90-something average. 3 [Inaudible.] 4 He's 20 years old now. 5 So I'm just going say to you, that they 6 should start in younger grades. Kindergarten. 7 Maybe -- maybe middle school. 8 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Too late. [Inaudible.] 9 [Multiple audience members speaking at 10 the same time.] 11 SENATOR BOYLE: Hold on. Let -- 12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: [No microphone 13 used/inaudible.] 14 AUDIENCE MEMBER: [No microphone used.] 15 [Inaudible.] Like the fried eggs, there is a 16 commercial, every day, about 25 a day, Partnership 17 For A Drug-Free. [Unintelligible] stories, share 18 your recovery, share your disease, people talking 19 about their children, talking about themselves. 20 It's on constantly on the air, all day. 21 AUDIENCE MEMBER: [No microphone used.] 22 But it is not enough. They should show, really, 23 what happens. Show somebody almost dead. Show 24 them -- 25 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you very much. 1 We're just limited on a couple more minutes. 2 Mr. Ferrari, if you would like to...? 3 ANTHONY C. FERRERI: Thank you. 4 And, Mr. Hunt, Mr. and Mrs. Crupi, my 5 condolences. 6 James, thank you for your great courage in 7 coming here today. 8 And I do really appreciate what you've said 9 to all of us here today, and it's a very, very 10 important message. 11 Like Dan and the others, I was asked to come 12 with a prepared statement. That statement's been 13 submitted. It's filled with statistics about what's 14 happened to our community. 15 And at this point, there's really no point in 16 reading this into the record, because I think we've 17 covered all of these statistics, and the epidemic 18 that we see. 19 I'm grateful to Mr. Hunt and to the Crupis, 20 because, they share; they've put a face on 21 statistics. 22 And, in fact, for those of us who work in 23 hospitals, and see what's going on in our emergency 24 rooms, we see those faces each and every day. 25 And it's truly an epidemic. 1 I think a lot of this comes down to something 2 that may be more simple, to ally that factor in our 3 issues today, but more difficult to solve; and that 4 is resources. 5 And, I've listened to Gary and Diane, to 6 Luke, to Fern, and the others that are here today; 7 those who are not-for-profit private organizations, 8 that struggle every day to meet the needs of this 9 community. 10 And the fact of the matter is, that 11 Staten Island continues to be the forgotten borough. 12 And, when you take a look at the issues in 13 health and Staten Island, it's no surprise that we 14 lead the five boroughs in addiction. 15 We also lead the five boroughs in cancer, 16 lung disease, heart disease, obesity, diabetes, and 17 mortality. 18 And this is the borough with the highest 19 median income in the city of New York. 20 The fact of the matter is, that the City of 21 New York, for every dollar of health care it spends, 22 it spends one-half of one penny on Staten Island. 23 And, I know that I've been saying this for 24 the 11 years that I've been the president of 25 Staten Island University Hospital, but, The Health 1 and Hospitals Corporation has no presence in our 2 community. No real presence in our community. 3 The hundreds of thousands of clinic visits 4 that are provided to the people of this borough who 5 cannot afford to pay for their care, are provided by 6 Richmond University Medical Center in Staten Island 7 University Hospital. 8 We need resources. 9 We need resources for prevention, and we need 10 resources for cure. 11 And that's my message for today. 12 Thank you. 13 [Applause.] 14 SENATOR BOYLE: Boris, would you like to say 15 something? 16 BORIS NATZEN: Assemblyman, thank you for 17 inviting me today; Senators and Assemblymen. 18 So I want to say, first, thank you for the 19 I-STOP program. It was a tremendous -- it's 20 tremendous for the pharmacies. It prevent -- it 21 alleviated us from becoming police officers, because 22 that's what was happening in the beginning of this 23 crisis. 24 And, it's a tremendous asset for us. It 25 helps tremendously. I think that it's -- I can say, 1 it probably knocked it down by 80 to 90 percent from 2 what we see. 3 I came to the realization of this epidemic 4 when we got held up at one of my locations on 5 Staten Island. 6 You know, right on the corner, 10 a.m. in the 7 morning, customers in the store. Two guys walked 8 in, young kids walked in, with a gun, and put it to 9 my pharmacist's head, and asked for the -- for -- 10 not for money, which, you know, you would think they 11 would ask for, but they asked for oxycodone. You 12 know, they ran out of the store. 13 Came back a month later and asked for it 14 again. Did not receive it, because we didn't have 15 any in stock. We don't -- we didn't keep it after 16 that. 17 And then they came back again, the third 18 time, but at that time, we already had 19 police officers in the store. 20 So, for them to be so blatant. And, again, 21 all -- every time they came, it was always during 22 the day, 10 a.m., 11 a.m. 23 So, you know, it is an epidemic, and it's 24 tremendous. 25 And I applaud everyone here for coming out 1 and making sure that our voices are heard. 2 And, also -- I want to mention, also, you 3 know, we've spoken about insurance companies. 4 You know, there's a mail-order issue that we 5 have in the state, and, where they mail these 6 controlled substances, they drop them on the 7 doorstep. There's 360 pills sitting on somebody's 8 doorstep. 9 So that's an issue that I want to address, 10 with mail-order. 11 I also want to address the issue of, you 12 know, the I-STOP program, correlating with 13 New Jersey. I think that's a tremendous thing that 14 we need, because New Jersey's not too far away, and 15 they can get the prescriptions, go there, pick them 16 up, and come here and be here within 15 minutes. 17 So, we want to make sure that we're able to 18 see if they get them filled in New Jersey, as well. 19 That would be a tremendous help. 20 Also, I wanted to mention: 21 So, some of you guys here might go to a 22 pharmacy and get a prescription for Nexium, and they 23 tell you, you know, it's prior authorization, you 24 can't get it. And, you go crazy trying to get this 25 medication. 1 And Nexium is a stomach medicine. 2 And, why can't we do that for these 3 controlled substances, make it difficult? 4 The insurances make it very difficult for you 5 to get the medicine. 6 Why can't the community make it very 7 difficult to get them? 8 You need authorizations, prior 9 authorizations. Limit the quantities. Right? 10 I know the education with the doctors have 11 been tremendous, because you could tell how they're 12 writing now; that it's helping and it's working. 13 But I think that that's a tremendous thing, 14 that if we put into -- we can put into law, or 15 however you want to do it, but limit the quantities. 16 Have the patient come back in two weeks to get it 17 again if they're a cancer patient or a hospice, or, 18 depending on the diagnosis, obviously. 19 But if -- limit the quantities that are in -- 20 on people's shelves in their house. 21 So, I mean -- again, so, Suboxone, right, 22 some of the patients that have come to us, I've 23 known them for many years, being on Staten Island, 24 and I speak to a lot of them. 25 And, you know, the ones that I know 1 personally, from interacting with them, they -- the 2 Suboxone is a tremendous help. 3 So, you know, some patients it helps, some 4 patients it doesn't. 5 But, from the ones that I've spoken to, it 6 definitely relieves them from the -- from this -- 7 from this epidemic. 8 So, I appreciate it, again, and thank you 9 all. 10 [Applause.] 11 ASSEMBLYMAN CUSICK: Of course, I just want 12 to thank you, too. 13 With the I-STOP, we depended a lot on the 14 pharmacists and the pharmacies, in drafting up the 15 legislation. 16 But I just wanted to mention one thing that 17 you had brought up: That we as legislators have 18 brought up to the Staten Island District Attorney, 19 and actually had an announcement, and we put in a 20 request to the New York State Department of Health 21 to have a linkage. 22 We can link our system to New Jersey, to 23 Pennsylvania, to other states. There just needs to 24 be a consent of each state to do that. 25 So, I just want you to know that we have, the 1 legislators up here, and the District Attorney here 2 in Staten Island, have put in that request to the 3 New York State Department of Health to do that. 4 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you, Mike. 5 I would like thank everyone for coming today: 6 To the panelists, to the audience, we had a 7 great exchange of ideas; 8 Mr. Hunt, the Crupis, and James, thank you 9 for sharing your story; 10 And to my colleagues, Senator Lanza, 11 Senator Savino, and Assemblyman Cusick. 12 We're going to take what you gave us today, 13 and it's going to be part of upcoming legislation. 14 That, I can promise you. 15 We're going to be -- oh, yeah. 16 We have some information on the back -- on 17 the outside, if you want to take it on your way out. 18 And, remember to try and get trained for 19 Narcan, if you have not done so already. 20 I can tell you that, this is a -- obviously, 21 a non-partisan issue. We have, members of each 22 party here, and each house of the State Legislature. 23 We are here to end this heroin epidemic, and 24 with the ideas and information you gave us today, 25 the passion that you expressed. 1 And this was, I would say, out of the nine 2 forums I've been to, this was the most passionate; 3 and I thank you. 4 And I understand that Staten Island is the 5 epicenter of this epidemic, and this is where we're 6 going to begin the fight, and we're going to win it, 7 very soon, with new legislation. 8 Thank you so much. 9 [Applause.] 10 11 (Whereupon, at approximately 3:51 p.m., 12 the forum held before the New York State Joint 13 Task Force on Heroin and Opioid Addiction 14 concluded, and adjourned.) 15 ---oOo--- 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25