Public Forum: Orange County Panel Discussion on Newburgh'S Heroin Epidemic

Orange County 6

Nancy Montgomery 7 Deputy Director of Grants for

Sean Patrick Maloney, and 8 Deputy Supervisor, Town of Phillipstown 9 Steve Neuhaus

County Executive 10 Orange County 11 Rob Ross

Chief Executive Officer 12 St. Luke's Cornwall Hospital 13 John Westerman, Jr.

Pharmacist, Previous owner of Ace Pharmacy 14 Newburgh, New York 15

START OF PANELIST PARTICIPATION PAGE 5 16

AUDIENCE PARTICIPATION AND Q&A PAGE 60 17 18 19 ---oOo--- 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 SENATOR LARKIN: Let's start from my right, 2 and introduce yourself to those in the audience. 3 CHIEF WILLIAM BARBERA: Chief Bill Barbera, 4 Rockland County Sheriff's Office. 5 JOHN WESTERMAN, JR.: John Westerman. I'm a 6 community pharmacist, Newburgh, New York. 7 DAVID GERBER: David Gerber, director of 8 counseling and shelter services at 9 St. Christopher's Inn in Garrison, New York. 10 ANNE CALAJOE: Anne Calajoe, director of 11 Alcohol and Substance Abuse Services, Rockland 12 County. 13 DAVID JOLLY: David Jolly, Greater Hudson 14 Valley Health Center. 15 JONNIE WESLEY-KRUEGER: Jonnie 16 Wesley-Krueger, Greater Hudson Valley Family Health 17 Center. 18 MAYOR JUDY KENNEDY: Mayor Kennedy, city of 19 Newburgh. 20 Wow, that's a loud one. 21 MICHAEL KAVANAGH: Mike Kavanagh, chief 22 narcotics prosecutor from the Ulster County DA's 23 Office. 24 SENATOR BOYLE: Senator Phil Boyle, Chairman 25 of the Heroin Task Force. 1 SENATOR LARKIN: Senator Bill Larkin. 2 SENATOR BONACIC: Senator John Bonacic. 3 STEVE NEUHAUS: County Executive 4 Steve Neuhaus. 5 DA DAVID HOOVLER: District Attorney 6 David Hoovler. 7 NANCY MONTGOMERY: Nancy Montgomery, deputy 8 director of grants for Sean Patrick Maloney, and 9 deputy supervisor with the Town of Phillipstown. 10 DARCIE MILLER: Darcie Miller, commissioner 11 of Orange County Department of Mental Health. 12 ROBERT ROSS: Robert Ross, CEO, 13 St. Luke's Cornwall Hospital. 14 CHIEF MICHAEL FERRARA: Mike Ferrara, Police 15 Chief, here in the city of Newburgh. 16 JAMES CONKLIN: Jim Conklin, executive 17 director of the Alcoholism and Drug Abuse Council of 18 Orange County. 19 GREGORY GAETANO: Greg Gaetano, Orange County 20 Sheriff's Office, representing Sheriff DuBois. 21 LT. PAUL ARTETA: Paul Arteta, Lieutenant, 22 Orange County Sheriff's Office. 23 SENATOR LARKIN: Thank you all. 24 Good morning. 25 First of all, we'd all like to thank each and 1 every one of you for attending. 2 This is a very, very important subject, and 3 we're here to discuss: 4 How did this take hold of our communities? 5 More importantly, what can we do, 6 collectively, to address this issue, and return our 7 communities to normalcy? 8 You can't turn on [sic] a newspaper today or 9 you can't turn on a television or a radio without 10 hearing about somebody OD'ing or something else. 11 We have a crisis in our communities, and we 12 have to address it. 13 My good friend Phil Boyle, who's the Chairman 14 of this for the State, has been going around the 15 state on this subject. 16 Last week, my good friend John Bonacic had 17 one in Monticello. 18 I've had people call me and saying to me, and 19 John's told me the same thing, they didn't realize 20 it was an issue in our communities. 21 I don't know what they've been reading, but, 22 ladies and gentlemen, this is important. 23 Please don't walk away from here today and 24 say, "Ah, we heard a big story, John." Or, "Phil, 25 we heard a big story." 1 Listen, and participate with us. 2 If you're hearing something here that you 3 don't understand, just stand up. There's a 4 microphone right there. 5 And at this time, I'd like to turn it over to 6 Phil Boyle, our Chairperson. 7 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you so much, Senator. 8 And I couldn't thank Senator Larkin enough 9 for hosting this Task Force forum. 10 This is the twelfth of 17 forums we're 11 hosting around the state. 12 And we're hearing across the state some of 13 the same problems in each community regarding the 14 heroin and opioid epidemic, and some new issues. 15 And I'm looking forward to hearing from this 16 distinguished panel and from the people in the 17 audience. 18 What I usually start by saying is that, if 19 you -- whatever area of the heroin epidemic you are 20 facing, whether it's you're a law-enforcement 21 official, a treatment provider, or a prevention 22 expert, a family member, an addict yourself, and you 23 say to yourself, "There's a law that I'd like to 24 change to make this situation better," please, this 25 is what we're looking for today; ideas for 1 legislation which we will be introducing in the 2 coming weeks, and passing in the State Senate. 3 With your input, we are going to beat this 4 serious crisis once and for all in our state. 5 And I'd like to thank again, Senator Larkin, 6 for hosting. 7 And, Senator Bonacic, if you would like to 8 say hello? 9 Senator Bonacic? 10 SENATOR BONACIC: This heroin epidemic 11 transcends every neighborhood, whether you're rich 12 or poor. I don't care about your ethnic persuasion. 13 It affects everyone. 14 And we in government are going to try to do 15 our best to get ahead of the curve, but we also need 16 the input from community. 17 We need government and community to help us 18 fight this epidemic. 19 Thank you. 20 SENATOR LARKIN: Go ahead. 21 SENATOR BOYLE: We -- these forums are very 22 informal, and it's not really a -- testifying like 23 an expert like in a normal hearing. It's a forum 24 and roundtable. 25 And that's why we just ask everyone, if you 1 have some ideas, give us a couple of minutes of your 2 input from your area of expertise, and then let's 3 have an open exchange, an open dialogue, both with 4 the panelists and with anybody in the audience. 5 Just raise your hand and we can get you a 6 microphone. 7 Or, if you want to just write down your 8 question or comment, we'll be happy to respond, as 9 well. 10 We usually start out with the area of 11 prevention. 12 Obviously, what's going on is our young 13 people, and that the average age of a heroin user, 14 an opioid user, is get younger and younger. 15 So, are there programs that you've seen for 16 people that are in the -- whether you're in the 17 prevention area or not, that you know of that are 18 effective, that you've been using around here, or 19 some that are not so effective? 20 Because we're looking, as part of this 21 legislative package, for proposals on what to fund, 22 and what to defund if it's not working. 23 Are there anybody from our panel that can 24 give us some insights? 25 Don't all answer at once. 1 [Laughter.] 2 MAYOR JUDY KENNEDY: I know -- 3 SENATOR BOYLE: Yes, Darcie? 4 MAYOR JUDY KENNEDY: Go ahead. 5 DARCIE MILLER: I don't understand the 6 question. 7 SENATOR BOYLE: Oh, I'm sorry. The acoustics 8 are a little questionable. 9 We're looking for some prevention programs 10 that may have been used here that are effective, or 11 not so effective. 12 Any insights you have on what you think is an 13 effective prevention program to stop our kids from 14 ever trying these drugs in the first place? 15 DARCIE MILLER: I'll start with that answer, 16 and I'm sure Jim Conklin from ADAC will have a lot 17 to add as well. 18 In Orange County, we recognize the epidemic 19 proportions that we're dealing with with opioid 20 addiction of both heroin and painkiller prescribed 21 medications. 22 And with that, we put a task force together 23 last year, completed some recommendations, which 24 I have given copies to the Senator. The support of 25 our County Executive, Steve Neuhaus; and 1 Dave Hoovler, our District Attorney; as well as our 2 Sheriff; all have contributed to these 3 recommendations that have been put forward in our 4 county. 5 With that, we've begun implementation. We've 6 had stakeholders, from prescribers, to hospitals, to 7 prevention providers, treatment providers, schools, 8 coming together to address this issue. 9 One of the greatest accomplishments we've 10 had, is having all 18 school districts agree to use 11 the Pride Survey in grades 8, 10, and 12, and 12 collect that data that will help us to target our 13 prevention strategies. 14 We've already begun to do community 15 prevention outreach. We've' been in our schools. 16 We've partnered with them to bring community 17 together, to bring the adolescents, as well as to 18 bring the parents together, to educate them about 19 the risk of opiates; the impact it can have on our 20 young people, understanding that adolescents' brains 21 are still developing and they are particularly 22 vulnerable to this kind of a brain disease. 23 We have seen that our treatment providers, 24 the numbers of people entering treatment for opioid 25 addiction has tripled since 2006. 1 We are outraged by those numbers, and are 2 committed to working together to address these 3 issues, through education, prevention, bring -- 4 educating our prescribers in the best practices for 5 when to prescribe and how much to prescribe; as well 6 as our communities, to partner with them in 7 developing coalitions, expanding peer supports; and 8 being as effective as we can to prevent the need for 9 treatment. 10 And I'm sure you'll get into discussion about 11 treatment. 12 JAMES CONKLIN: Thank you, Darcie. 13 I guess we should probably start by saying -- 14 SENATOR LARKIN: Speak up a little bit. 15 JAMES CONKLIN: Sorry. Yes, sir, Senator. 16 I guess we should start by saying that we're 17 not going to have, you know, one bit of funding or 18 one piece of legislation that's going to address 19 this multifaceted issue. It's affecting every 20 community, every neighborhood, every town, 21 throughout the state of New York. 22 One of the things that I think in prevention 23 we're looking at doing, and we've been doing it at 24 the community level, and I'd like to continue and 25 develop some programs that do it at the school 1 level, is taking the community-mobilization approach 2 to prevention. And it shouldn't be directed or 3 targeted. 4 Although we come together to address a 5 specific epidemic today, our effort shouldn't be 6 addressed at opiates. It should be addressed at 7 changing the norms, accessibility, and availability 8 to all substances of abuse in our communities, and 9 to having a different mindset in how we address 10 that; to having the message be correct and delivered 11 by every adult. 12 One of my favorite soapboxes when it comes to 13 substance-abuse prevention treatment, is it has so 14 little to do with children and so much to do with 15 adults. 16 Children are doing exactly what we should be 17 expecting them to do, developmentally. They're 18 pushing away from their family of origin, they're 19 developing their peer group, they're establishing 20 their own identity, and they're moving on to, you 21 know, take their place in the adult world. 22 That's their role and goal through that stage 23 of life. 24 We're creating the environment that they do 25 that in. And as long as we have crack pipes on the 1 counters at Mobile Marts and Philly blunts all over 2 the place, we're sending a message of tacit 3 approval. 4 I think it's the adults in the community that 5 need to learn -- 6 [Applause.] 7 JAMES CONKLIN: Thank you. 8 I think it's the adults in community that 9 need to learn the message and the science of 10 prevention and implement it appropriately. 11 We have to do a better job for our kids. 12 Our prevention programming has always been, 13 "Well, buy this curriculum." And the school 14 district can spend ten, twenty, thirty thousand 15 dollars on a curriculum, it doesn't address the 16 entire strata of their school district; it doesn't 17 address all their problems and needs. 18 So we're looking at make something changes in 19 our prevention strategies at ADAC, and looking at it 20 a little bit differently of how we approach the 21 situation. 22 SENATOR BOYLE: That was an excellent point. 23 I'm sorry. 24 One of the things is that, we see that 25 it's -- we shouldn't be just one forum for the 1 students, which they do once a year. It's got to be 2 an ongoing thing. 3 Mayor. 4 MAYOR JUDY KENNEDY: I wanted to say that, 5 I've been working with Team Newburgh. 6 And I see Martin Colavito [ph.] out there. 7 And one of the things that is happening 8 there, we've got some legislation ready, that has to 9 do with all of the drug paraphernalia that is 10 available in bodegas and everywhere. And it's 11 packaged for children, with sugar, and bright 12 colors, and all kinds of interesting things. 13 It's packaged for children. And it's in 14 right where candy and all that stuff is. 15 And I think that -- we're looking at it at a 16 local level, but at least at a state level, can that 17 be handled like cigarettes? 18 It's got to be up, behind the counters, you 19 have to ask for it. And, it can't be really 20 targeted towards children. 21 It's something we could do to make it lots 22 harder to have the paraphernalia available. 23 And it's a small step, but it's a good step. 24 The really big issue that we have right now, 25 that's kind of holding us up, is how do we enforce 1 that, and put some teeth in that law, so that, you 2 know, our police officers and everybody else can 3 really go after it? 4 So I think making it much more difficult 5 would really help. 6 And I agree with the gentleman down there, we 7 need to get our parents involved. 8 We have too many painkillers around home, we 9 have everybody popping pills for whatever little 10 ache and pain they've got, and the kids have access 11 to that immediately. 12 We have got to do something to educate our 13 parents about having the availability of all these 14 painkillers that immediately jump to the opiate 15 drugs. 16 SENATOR BOYLE: Does the local and -- law 17 enforcement, or the city or municipalities, do a 18 Shed The Meds or Drug Take-Backs in this community 19 communities, and are they effective? 20 DA DAVID HOOVLER: I'm the District Attorney. 21 I think -- what I hear here, and what I see 22 in the county, is showing a lot of trends: 23 First, I think the collaboration that we're 24 undertaking in the District Attorney's Office, with 25 ADAC, with mental health, Orange County Mental 1 Health, with our health-care providers, from a 2 law-enforcement standpoint, we have to realize that 3 enforcement alone is not the answer to any of the 4 problems we have. It has to be a multifaceted 5 approach, it has to have an educational component, 6 so that people are aware of the signs and symptoms 7 of addiction. 8 And it has to be a vigilance, with our 9 parents, with our child-care providers, with our 10 relatives. You have to see the problems as they're 11 coming before you, and you have to understand that 12 your social background, your ethnic background, your 13 economic background, that anyone can fall victim to 14 heroin, opioid addiction, and drugs in general. 15 The second aspect -- or that would be the 16 first prong. 17 The second aspect has to be, that those 18 individuals, those people, that are closest to those 19 who are addicted, you have to empower them to 20 somehow seek the treatment; to reach out, to get the 21 treatment, and then force them, to the best you can, 22 to go there and seek the treatment, understanding 23 that the person that's addicted drives the ship, but 24 have you to provide as much support as you can. 25 The third aspect, where my office becomes 1 involved, and while prosecutors, we are educators, 2 we are advocates. At the end of the day, our job is 3 to make the community safe. 4 The enforcement aspect, as a district 5 attorney, the last thing I want to see is people 6 being arrested. But when they denigrate the quality 7 of life of the citizens of the county or the state, 8 enforcement action has to be taken. 9 So I think that, under the umbrella of 10 looking at the problem, as long as we always focus 11 that there has to be a multifaceted approach, there 12 has to be education, empowerment, and enforcement 13 of, you know, these three prongs working together. 14 But just to talk -- to answer the question: 15 The scope of the problem in Orange County, 16 and I will be very brief and tell you what we're up 17 against. 18 This year alone, drug indictments, where a 19 grand jury indicts somebody for narcotics, a 20 felony-related offense, in this county this year, 21 for the first quarter, through April 30th, drug 22 indictments are up 75.5 percent. 23 Heroin indictments, for people, possession of 24 heroin, felony weight, are up 100 percent from last 25 year; 1 Cocaine indictments for people possessing 2 felony-weight cocaine are up 53.8 percent. 3 Here's the staggering number that's coming: 4 The total number of drug-sale indictments, 5 where someone has physically sold drugs primarily to 6 an undercover police officer, someone that they do 7 not know is a law-enforcement agent, these 8 indictments have increased 217.6 percent. 9 Now some of that is because of our stepping 10 up the enforcement aspect, but never in my years of 11 law enforcement or in the criminal justice field or 12 as a practicing attorney, have I seen increases like 13 that; nor have people that have worked in the 14 District Attorney's Office. 15 So that's what we're up against. 16 And I think the first step is having forums 17 like this, and understanding that we do have a very 18 serious problem. And then we must understand that 19 that problem affects every one of us. 20 That the child or the adult who is addicted, 21 it not only affects their family, it affects all of 22 us, because it affects the insurance companies, it 23 affects the providers. 24 There's a cascading effect that this epidemic 25 has, that starts with the person that's addicted, 1 and ends up all the way through health care, our 2 social -- our society, as well as our 3 law-enforcement society. 4 And I think that's what we really have to 5 start getting a grasp that the problem is much 6 greater than we want to acknowledge. 7 SENATOR BOYLE: Mr. Kavanagh, we've seen 8 similar numbers in Ulster County for arrests? 9 MICHAEL KAVANAGH: We are. 10 I don't have the statistics available, but 11 I can tell you, having indicted a majority of the 12 cases this year, and last year, involving narcotics, 13 that we're seeing far more heroin and 14 diverted-pharmaceutical indictments than we have in 15 the past. 16 And just to add something: I think 17 prevention that was addressed already should be the 18 primary topic that we talk about here today, 19 because, very often, when law enforcement gets 20 involved, it's already too late. People are 21 addicted, that bridge has already been crossed, and 22 it's very difficult to go back and undo that. 23 What we like to do, I know in Ulster County, 24 one of the things we focus on is, once law 25 enforcement gets involved, we do try to encourage 1 treatment. 2 And when I say "encourage," I think it's more 3 appropriate to say we threaten treatment, because, 4 in my experience, once somebody becomes an addict, 5 they are not going to seek treatment voluntarily. 6 They need to have a gun at their head, so to speak. 7 They need to hit rock bottom. 8 And that's how we can help in law 9 enforcement. And we try to achieve that, with 10 limited success. We have a drug court that's very 11 successful. 12 I know that many county courts have a 13 diversion program which is very successful. 14 So there is some hope, but, by and large, 15 once we're involved, it's an uphill battle from 16 there. 17 SENATOR BOYLE: Mr. County Executive? 18 STEVE NEUHAUS: Just following up on what the 19 District Attorney said, one of the things that we've 20 started doing this year, when we make arrests, is a 21 three-pronged approach when we make the presentation 22 to the public. 23 Number one -- 24 [Microphone passed to speaker.] 25 STEVE NEUHAUS: Thank you, Senator. 1 The first thing we do is, the law enforcement 2 explains to the public how the arrest was made. 3 Number two, the District Attorney talks about 4 how the prosecution, and what the sentence they're 5 looking at. 6 The third thing, which I think is a critical 7 thing, and I think it's what everybody's alluding to 8 and what's been mentioned so far, is the education 9 process. 10 We have a picture of each individual on a 11 screen behind us, and we say: This is somebody's 12 husband, wife, mom, daughter, dad, cousin. Somebody 13 knew they had an addiction, or somebody knew they 14 had a problem. 15 And like it was just mentioned, somebody has 16 to force them to get help. 17 And what we're trying to get the message out, 18 is that we don't want to make the arrest. We don't 19 want to endanger our public. We don't want to have 20 the District Attorney busier than they are now. 21 But we have a million resources available in 22 Orange County right now. 23 Darcie Miller just mentioned, from 24 Mental Health, as well as the many other people here 25 down this panel, if you get the awareness out there. 1 And one of the silver linings, if there is 2 anything to Philip Seymour Hoffman's death, is that 3 it brought widespread awareness of heroin and some 4 of the impacts in society. It was a horrible thing, 5 but it made the headlines that sometimes don't get 6 the word out there. 7 So, the -- getting the awareness and the 8 education out there is critical to really combating 9 this. 10 So thank you, Senator. 11 SENATOR BOYLE: That's a wonderful program, 12 and I think it should be used in more counties 13 across the state. 14 It was mentioned, for those looking for 15 treatment, that have hit rock bottom, they'll look 16 for a detox and/or a referral to -- for 17 rehabilitation, and inpatient treatment, perhaps, or 18 outpatient treatment. 19 One of the problems we're seeing around the 20 state is the coverage -- insurance coverage. 21 People are saying, "Okay, I'm ready to get 22 off drugs, I'm ready to get clean." And, either 23 their parents or themselves, they call the insurance 24 company, and the medical -- and the insurer says, 25 Well, it's not medically necessity. 1 So for any of the providers here -- the 2 treatment providers, can you explain what you're 3 experiencing in terms of coverage, and getting 4 people in there and the help they need? 5 Yes. 6 ROBERT ROSS: Well, first of all, I have to 7 thank Senators Larkin and Boyle for convening this. 8 This is a very important topic. 9 We at St. Luke's Cornwall are kind of at the 10 end of the stream here. We have seen, in the last 11 year, a threefold increase in overdoses in our 12 emergency department. 13 Think about that for one minute. 14 We as a community, we as a society, are 15 paying for the treatment of people when they've 16 reached the worst moments in their lives, and not 17 spending the money up front for prevention, for 18 treatment, for interceding when necessary, for that. 19 We have shown that we can work 20 collaboratively with government, with other 21 providers, to make sure that we get in front of this 22 situation and make sure that patients get the 23 treatment that they need. 24 We find all the time that payment is a key 25 issue here. 1 People come into our emergency department, we 2 treat them at the moment, and send them back out 3 into the community, but the funding isn't there to 4 get them the right treatment. 5 Funding isn't there for appropriate 6 outpatient treatment. Funding isn't there for 7 appropriate inpatient treatment. 8 And what we find is, we'll see them back in 9 our emergency department weeks or months later. 10 We have to decide, as a society, where we 11 want to spend our health-care dollars. 12 And where it needs to be spent is on 13 collaboration and treatment and funding up-front, 14 and not at the back end when they show up in a 15 crisis at our emergency department. That's not 16 where it should be. 17 So, absolutely, funding and payment is a key 18 issue. And we have to look at how we can put more 19 funding into treatment, and less funding into 20 handling it when it's a crisis at the end of the 21 line. 22 Thank you. 23 [Applause.] 24 DAVID GERBER: Senator, thank you for turning 25 the discussion in this direction. 1 At St. Christopher's Inn, just to give you an 2 idea of the shift in our population, in 5 years, the 3 number of people who come into our outpatient day 4 rehabilitation program, the number of people who are 5 heroin-primary, has grown 51 percent in the last 6 5 years. 7 That, while the average age of people, 8 18 to 25, has gone up 62 percent. 9 So we're seeing decreases in alcohol use, 10 increases in heroin, and the population getting 11 younger and younger and more complicated. 12 The problems that we're facing -- and 13 St. Christopher's Inn is the largest provider of day 14 rehabilitation services in the state. And what 15 we're facing right now as a field, is that programs 16 are closing, so access to care is dwindling. Rates 17 are being cut. 18 At St. Christopher's Inn, the new 19 implementation of the APG rates for outpatient 20 treatment providers, we underwent a 13 percent cut 21 in our rates. We've had to scale back services as a 22 result. 23 And insurance companies are denying care, and 24 limiting days of care to the point where they're, 25 clinically, insufficient. 1 We have one insurance company that said: We 2 don't authorize more than 14 days of treatment for 3 anybody. 4 Well, for someone who's been a heroin addict 5 for a year, 5 years, 10 years, you can imagine a 6 chronic, debilitating, deadly disease, and an 7 insurance company saying, We can only give you 8 14 days of treatment. 9 It's just, clinically, not enough. 10 JONNIE WESLEY-KRUEGER: And at the same time 11 as we're talking about treatment, and some of the 12 barriers to securing effective access to treatment, 13 what we have at this moment in time, and some of my 14 colleagues in the room will know and shudder as 15 I say this, there is a massive overhaul at this same 16 moment, in looking at the delivery of health care. 17 There is an initiative right now, in terms of the 18 redesign of Medicaid. And it is very much about 19 shifting away from paying for services rendered to 20 producing outcomes. 21 Well, in this regard, of course, we're all 22 seeking, what are the very best outcomes that can be 23 generated? 24 The obstacle and the immediate up-front, is 25 how to make the transitions so that the systems are 1 coordinated, they are integrated, they are as 2 comprehensive and effective as possible. 3 But, there is still a reality to the delivery 4 of care, which, you know, by everybody's stretch of 5 the imagination, recognizing the overall goal is 6 about treating the healthiest [inaudible/someone 7 coughing]. 8 And there are certain dollar-and-cents 9 realities about what that's going to mean. 10 And in our pursuit of this redesigned system 11 that we want to see fully actualized by 2020, can 12 we -- do we make sure that we can avoid creating 13 further problems and difficulties, especially in the 14 face of this onset of this epidemic that is 15 impacting us in so many myriad ways. 16 The other thing that I had wanted to say, and 17 I'd like to go back to, not on the grander scheme of 18 the whole redesign of the system, and how do we 19 drill it down to really being effective, and our 20 addressing some of these issues on the treatment 21 side. 22 And, of course, as we said earlier, by 23 Dave Hoovler, in terms of the need for the 24 comprehensive approach, one of the pieces of minutia 25 that we're finding, as our center for recovery 1 continues to be the only opioid-treatment program 2 here in the county, is -- and I say this with a 3 tremendous degree of surprise, still is, drug 4 dealers are incredibly entrepreneurial. 5 And one of the things we have discovered, is 6 that drug dealers know the location of treatment 7 facilities, recognize that this is a known customer 8 base, and make a point of setting up business within 9 the proximity of. 10 So, as we are struggling to work to ensure 11 the success of our patients seeking treatment, we're 12 also struggling and working collaboratively with 13 law enforcement here in the city of Newburgh to 14 identify how we create a safe environment, so that 15 folks that are pursuing treatment can do so without 16 the distractions of somebody standing there, going, 17 "We got you covered." 18 SENATOR BOYLE: Yeah, that is actually one of 19 the areas we're looking at in terms of the 20 legislation, to increase penalties for dealing drugs 21 in the vicinity of a treatment. 22 JONNIE WESLEY-KRUEGER: We vote yes. 23 MAYOR JUDY KENNEDY: The vicinity of schools, 24 too. 25 SENATOR BOYLE: Without a doubt, without a 1 doubt. 2 JOHN WESTERMAN, JR.: Excuse me, if I could 3 jump in? And I apologize for the -- there's a 4 couple of bullet points that have been mentioned 5 here this morning, that I would like to comment on. 6 As a pharmacist, I'm tending to look at 7 things from the perspective of prescription-drug 8 abuse. And I realize the primary focus of this 9 forum is to identify, maybe, solutions to the heroin 10 side. 11 But I think it's important to draw the 12 parallel and the -- identify and recognize the 13 pathway between what may start out as 14 prescription-drug abuse in many households, and 15 ultimately end up in the illicit market. 16 There has been recent legislation that was 17 passed approximately a year ago in New York State, 18 called "I-STOP," which is the Internet system for 19 tracking of overprescribing. 20 And essentially what that has done, is it has 21 created a database within the state that would allow 22 physicians -- actually mandates that physicians or 23 any prescriber check that database, to make sure 24 that we're not -- their patients are not doctor 25 shopping; using multiple prescribers and multiple 1 pharmacies to obtain prescription drugs. 2 So the net result of the I-STOP program is 3 that it's been extremely effective. 4 I'm also licensed to practice pharmacy in the 5 state of Florida, and they were about a year ahead 6 of the curve on this situation, because they had an 7 explosion of Oxycontin diversion, and they were 8 known as the "Oxy capital of the country." 9 So, they really had to address this problem a 10 little bit earlier on the time curve than 11 New York State. 12 So I've had experience dealing with them in 13 that location, as well. 14 And the bottom line is, that program has been 15 extremely effective. 16 The unintended consequence of that, however, 17 is that we still have addiction problems. 18 We still have a problem, where -- and someone 19 mentioned earlier, prevention, prevention, 20 prevention, and I couldn't agree more. 21 We need to stop it at the source, because 22 someone gets in a situation where they become 23 addicted to prescription narcotics, and, now, with 24 I-STOP and other programs like this going on in 25 multistate venues, it's becoming more and more 1 difficult for people to get larger quantities of 2 these prescription drugs to support their addiction. 3 So you've got a problem where the addiction 4 has occurred. Now you've got a patient that needs 5 to satisfy this addiction. 6 In the past, they've been able to go to 7 multiple physicians and pharmacies and obtain these 8 drugs, often, sometimes using insurance. Obviously, 9 they can get one bite of the apple with that, and 10 then pay cash for the others, which is why they flew 11 under the radar for so long. 12 But, now, this has become more difficult, if 13 not impossible. 14 So to satisfy their addiction, they're now 15 going to the illicit stream. 16 So now you've got people that are 17 middle-class, upper-class, America -- the 18 cheerleaders, the football players, everybody 19 else -- people that have had chronic illness or some 20 kind of disability that have just -- that have -- 21 were taking these potent pain relievers, and then 22 got into a vicious cycle where they became addicted. 23 You've got these people now that can't 24 satisfy their needs, and they're going into the 25 illicit market, and you're creating a whole other 1 host of problems associated with that now. 2 So, while the -- while I think what you're 3 going to see, is probably a tightening of the 4 prescription-drug diversion situation at the expense 5 of the heroin and the illicit side. 6 And, again, to -- and I hate to belabor the 7 point, but we talk about prevention, prevention. 8 We can't do enough to get involved at the 9 early stages. We've got to get to our kids. 10 Mayor Kennedy, you pointed out the 11 stockpiling of drugs being an issue and the 12 Take-Back program. And I don't know if that was 13 actually answered. 14 But I know there was one last -- what, 15 I think April 26th. And I got a thing -- I'm a 16 member of the National Association of Boards of 17 Pharmacy. And they track these things. And it was 18 the largest Take-Back event, ever. And I forget how 19 many tons of controlled substances were returned, 20 nationwide. 21 So it's a hugely successful program, 22 I believe. 23 But as a community pharmacist, we have been 24 trying to get the DEA to allow community pharmacies 25 to accept unwanted, undesired controlled substances 1 back, for destruction, from our patients. 2 This has been languishing around at the DEA 3 level for well over a year. 4 And in terms of a possible solution, I would 5 ask the legislative -- our legislative members of 6 this body, perhaps, reach out to their colleagues on 7 the federal side, the members of Congress -- 8 Senator Schumer, Senator Gillibrand -- let's see if 9 we can urge the DEA to move forward on this pathway 10 to get it legal, for the pharmacies and the 11 pharmacists that choose to, to be able to take back 12 these unwanted controlled substances from their 13 patients for destruction. 14 Get them out of the medicine cabinets where 15 our kids and other family members can get ahold of 16 them. 17 That's a no-cost solution. 18 I mean, that's really a no-cost solution. 19 It's is a fairly easy thing to do, and it comes at 20 no charge to the taxpayer or anybody else. 21 I think it would be extremely effective. 22 And I'm sorry I monopolized a lot of time, 23 but, thank you. 24 CHIEF WILLIAM BARBERA: Just to feed off of 25 that a little bit: This is not an Orange County 1 issue, this is not a Rockland County issue. This is 2 a national issue. 3 And I agree with my pharmacist friend here, 4 we need to get that medicine out of the medicine 5 cabinet. 6 In Rockland County, we did work with the DEA. 7 Took Sheriff Falco well over a year to get the 8 authorization. 9 But, 24 hours a day, you can come into the 10 Sheriff's Office, and some of the local police 11 departments, and drop off unused narcotics that you 12 have in your medicine cabinets. 13 It's anonymous. You walk through the door, 14 we don't even ask who you are. Come in. We have a 15 mailbox secured to the floor. You anonymously throw 16 it in there. 17 And, last month, we destroyed over 700 pounds 18 of unused narcotics from the Rockland County area. 19 So far we've had -- in the past four months, 20 we've had eight deaths associated with overdose in 21 Rockland County. 22 Rockland is significantly smaller than 23 Orange. That's two deaths per month. That's 24 something we can't afford to have in our community. 25 So, I thank you all for being here. 1 Thank you. 2 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you. 3 Yes. 4 DAVID JOLLY: So one of the issues we 5 noticed, too, at the Greater Hudson Valley Health 6 Center, our center for recovery, which does, 7 methadone maintenance, is our primary role, is that 8 our waiting list today has reached 80. 9 So a person in need of treatment today is not 10 going to get access very quickly, which presents 11 a -- as we all know in the field of recovery, when a 12 person reaches a certain point and they're ready to 13 take that step towards recovery, we have to have 14 access perfect for that patient to get in the next 15 day. 16 If they're not in quickly, by the way, the 17 opportunities exist for them to go back, and to 18 wait. 19 And we also agree with the District Attorney, 20 by the way, that the law enforcement and the 21 prosecution, mandated treatment works. It gets 22 people in the door. 23 When a person's in the door, it's our job to 24 keep them there. And we're good at that. 25 So, we can't say enough about the effect of 1 law enforcement and mandated treatment through the 2 courts. 3 SENATOR BOYLE: Just to follow up with that 4 question: Are there sufficient detox beds in the 5 area of Orange, Ulster, Rockland, before you go to 6 treatment? 7 I mean -- and what kind of delay are we 8 looking at? Are we talking, a couple of days? a 9 couple of weeks? 10 Because some areas of the state, for those 11 who can get to detox, they have to wait 14 days or 12 more to get into the treatment. And, obviously, 13 they're overdosing when they get back out. 14 DAVID JOLLY: Experts, right here. 15 ANNE CALAJOE: Well, I'm from Rockland, but, 16 most of the time, people that are going to the 17 ERs in Rockland are being denied admission, 18 because opiate is not considered a medical 19 necessity. 20 So what happens, is that there are beds 21 available, but people aren't getting admitted. 22 And what's happening, is when people are 23 turned away, they just go back out on the street and 24 they just keep using more heroin, which, really, it 25 increases the potential of overdose because people 1 are trying to avoid withdrawal. 2 So, people are just going back out after 3 they're at the point of being ready to go into a 4 hospital and to go into detox, and then they're 5 being told, No, we can't admit you. 6 So it's a very frustrating process for 7 everyone. 8 For families, families are like really to the 9 point where, like, What do we really do? 10 This isn't like -- as far as their child, it 11 is a medical necessity. 12 It's -- and people don't understand, you 13 know, like, why they're not being admitted when 14 they're ready. 15 One of the other things is that -- we're 16 finding, is that when people continue to use heroin, 17 they're out there with their friends, with their -- 18 out in the community. And what's happening is, 19 people are overdosing all over. 20 And one of the things that we have found to 21 be effective in Rockland is, Blaisdell, our 22 inpatient rehab program, has been, basically, 23 training all their patients, families, staff, the 24 community, on the overdose-prevention kit. 25 So when people come into their treatment 1 program, if you're a patient or if you're a family 2 member, you can receive the training for the Narcan, 3 to reverse the withdrawal -- the opiate overdose. 4 So that has been very effective in spreading 5 that throughout the community, and that's happening 6 there for at least two years. 7 But one of the other things that we've done 8 just recently is, in the beginning of April, we 9 started to work with the Rockland paramedics. And 10 the Clarkstown Police Department was the first 11 police department to be trained to administer the 12 nasal-spray Narcan, which has been very effective in 13 the community, as well. 14 And we're going to continue to train all the 15 police departments in Rockland County, to help with 16 that process. 17 So that has been helpful in our community. 18 The other thing that we're trying to do, as 19 Nyack Hospital is opening -- has been working on 20 doing an ambulatory detox, because of all the people 21 that are being denied access. 22 But the only -- it's not really a perfect 23 solution because that's for mild to moderate 24 withdrawal, so you can't be using and in severe 25 withdrawal. 1 So, it's really not the total fix to the 2 problem, but it's an attempt. 3 But we're supposed to have sometime, probably 4 June or July, we'll probably add that service in 5 Nyack. 6 SENATOR BOYLE: One second. 7 Does -- Chief, did you want to comment on 8 that? 9 CHIEF WILLIAM BARBERA: Just one more piece, 10 on Narcan, we're going to use that in 11 Rockland County. 12 What it is, the first person on the scene is 13 usually a police officer. 14 And you have seconds. When someone's 15 overdosing, you only have seconds, if not minutes, 16 to save their life. 17 Narcan is a medicine that immediately 18 reverses the effects of an overdose. It's actually 19 a spray that the officer can put spray into -- in 20 the person's nose. 21 As the Chief of Police, I did not want this. 22 I was very afraid of my officers administering 23 medicine. 24 But speaking to the Rockland paramedics, they 25 assured us it has zero effect on anyone who doesn't 1 have any opiates in their system. 2 "Zero effect." Nothing. Can't harm a person 3 at all. 4 It will immediately reverse the effects of a 5 persons who's overdosing; so, therefore -- and, 6 actually, the good news, I spoke to one of my 7 colleagues, the Chief of Newburgh, they're going use 8 it here in Orange County, as well. 9 We're going to use it in Rockland. And here 10 in Orange, as well. 11 DAVID GERBER: Senator, [unintelligible] when 12 you talk about the availability of detox beds, how 13 moot a point that is if you follow the money, 14 because the reality is, come next year, when 15 fee-for-service Medicaid ends and all Medicaid 16 becomes managed care, all of the funding is calling 17 for incentivizing decreased detoxification 18 inpatient, decreased emergency room visits. 19 And, unfortunately, you know, many of us are 20 already seeing limits and decreases in outpatient 21 care, as well. 22 At St. Christopher's Inn, we're getting calls 23 every day from family members that don't know what 24 to do with their kids, trying to get them off the 25 street, being denied at a detox or an inpatient 1 rehab by an insurance company. 2 And we came up with the idea to create a 3 crisis respite center, and it gained a bit of 4 traction. 5 Office of Mental Health asked to us write up 6 a proposal. 7 And, after we submitted the proposal, they 8 said: No, thanks. We want to focus more on 9 mental-health issues. 10 So, you know, we have the capacity, in a very 11 unique setting, to provide an inpatient-like 12 program, but there is no funding for it currently, 13 and nobody willing to fund it, unless we move for a 14 private-pay model. 15 So, you know, the availability -- we have an 16 ambulatory detox license. We're one of the few 17 outpatient providers that has actually held on to an 18 ambulatory detox license, and we've done so because 19 our unique shelter setting allows people to stay 20 inpatient; and, yet, be treated for ambulatory 21 detox; and, yet, we've gotten one referral in the 22 past year. 23 Westchester County, I believe, has 72 detox 24 beds. They're generally full, without much of a 25 waiting list. 1 There is zero beds in Putnam County. 2 So, I don't know if that answers your 3 question. 4 JOHN WESTERMAN, JR.: I'd just like to add 5 one comment to the discussion around the Narcan, 6 which is naloxone. 7 Some of you may be aware that there's been a 8 product that's been made available within the last 9 30 days, and it's call "EVZIO," E-V-Z-I-O. It is, 10 basically, a consumer-, layperson-based product. 11 For those of who have ever used an EpiPen, or 12 carried an EpiPen, to reverse allergic symptoms, 13 it's an epinephrine pen, for yourself or your child, 14 this is, basically, a similar packaging of the 15 naloxone, brand name "Narcan," that's been referred 16 to by Bill and others. 17 It immediately reverses the effects of 18 opiate, the respiratory depression, the CNS 19 depression; all of the classic things, the killers. 20 But the advantage of this product -- and I'm 21 not a paid endorser of this -- but the advantage of 22 this product is, it is a -- in a self-injector 23 format. 24 The advantage of it being an injection, if 25 the person is really out, totally out, nasal spray 1 may not be effective. 2 So the advantage of this product is, it 3 actually -- when you remove the cap, it actually 4 gives you an audio message as to how to proceed. 5 It will tell you: Remove cap. Remove this. 6 Put this -- place this on this part of the body for 7 X number of times. Whatever. 8 It's very, very user-friendly, and it's 9 designed to be used by a layperson. 10 It's just been out within the last 30 days. 11 The problem is, it requires a prescription. 12 And I believe there's legislation that was 13 passed, I believe by both the Assembly and the 14 Senate in New York State, last week, awaiting the 15 Governor's signature. 16 And as of last week it had not been signed, 17 but, maybe someone at this table knows the answer. 18 But, it would allow that product to be 19 prescribed by a physician, and available to anybody. 20 A parent in a household, or if you had a 21 family member that was at risk, you could actually 22 obtain this product and have it on your person. 23 Because, as Bill mentioned, time is of the 24 essence. If you have an overdose, you haven't got 25 10, 20 minutes to fool around. You've got to give 1 this immediately. 2 So this has to be, first responders, 3 definitely, should all have it. But I think the 4 families should also, for those people who have 5 family members at risk, they should have this 6 available to them. 7 And I would go one step further, it might 8 even be considered that we have some kind of ability 9 for maybe the State health commissioner or the 10 County health commissioner to have a standing order, 11 for instance, in place for this, so that you 12 wouldn't even need a prescription. You could get it 13 anonymously at the pharmacy, if you chose to have 14 it. 15 Because it has zero abuse potential, as Bill 16 said. It can only be of benefit. And it's a 17 lifesaver. 18 SENATOR BOYLE: Yeah, and the mechanism 19 you're referring to is kind of like an EpiPen for 20 Narcan; right? 21 JOHN WESTERMAN, JR.: Correct. 22 SENATOR BOYLE: It's a great thing. 23 For those of you who have not taken the 24 training for Narcan, it's not a big, long course. 25 It's, literally, a 45-minute class you can take. 1 And, save a life, God forbid, if you ever have to, 2 of a neighbor or a loved one. 3 Darcie? 4 DARCIE MILLER: Yes, thank you, Senator. 5 I just want to speak about the capacity here 6 in Orange County, and I would say shame on us if one 7 of our detox beds is vacant. 8 With the proportion of the issue that we're 9 dealing with, there shouldn't be a single bed vacant 10 in this county. 11 Unfortunately, there are times when they are 12 for all the reasons that have been already been 13 mentioned by our neighboring counties. 14 When someone goes to the emergency room, 15 asking for help, looking for treatment, if they're 16 not sick enough, if they haven't failed out of 17 enough outpatient services, they are turned away and 18 told to come back later. 19 That is just unacceptable, considering the 20 depth of this issue and the addiction, and the need 21 for services to help them recover. 22 We are 100 percent supportive of your bill to 23 require insurance companies to pay for the level of 24 care that's recommended by the clinical provider 25 who's doing the assessment. 1 And we thank you for that effort and moving 2 it forward. 3 I also want to say that it's on the 4 service-provider system to ensure that we're 5 providing best-practice intervention to support 6 people through their recovery process, using things 7 like motivational interviewing, and cognitive 8 behavioral therapy, and trauma-informed care. 9 We also need to take away some of the stigma 10 that's connected with the medical medication support 11 that helps people in their recovery. 12 We haven't talked today about the stigma. 13 And the reason why so many people don't come 14 forward to get help, because most of them 15 accidentally become addicted. They start taking 16 opiate painkillers, and before they know it, they're 17 addicted, and they're shocked that they're now 18 shooting up heroin. 19 And for us in this region, it's even more 20 dangerous, because our young people are shooting 21 heroin and they're not educated about the use of 22 heroin. 23 In New York City, it's been around much 24 longer than in our communities. And our young 25 people are not using heroin in safe ways. 1 No one uses it in safe ways, but our young 2 people aren't aware of the risks. And that's why 3 the education is so important for them. 4 But when we talk about using Suboxone or 5 using methadone, methadone, for example, 6 Greater Hudson Valley Family Health Care Center has 7 400 slots for us here in this county. 8 The New York State Office of Alcoholism and 9 Substance Abuse said our need is for more like 10 800 slots. 11 That leaves us 400 less shots than what we 12 need to provide the care that our community members 13 need. 14 We also have to look at Suboxone as a 15 supportive treatment, and naloxone. 16 When people talk about using those 17 medications to support people in their recovery, 18 there's some stigma even among our own system of 19 providers saying, we're replacing one drug with 20 another. 21 That may be true, for example, with 22 methadone. But it is a controlled treatment, 23 sanctioned supportive response, to help somebody 24 stay off of a street drug that has taken away the 25 quality of their lives, and leading to the death for 1 so many. 2 One in nine -- one person dies every 3 19 minutes in our country due to drug overdose. 4 Using the medications that can assist them, 5 and having quality lives, remaining with their 6 families, staying in their communities, having 7 employment, we should all speak strongly for support 8 of that kind of treatment. 9 Whether it's done in a detox setting, in an 10 inpatient rehab, or, as we are now allowed to do, in 11 our outpatient settings, to provide that support. 12 CHIEF MICHAEL FERRARA: If I may chime in? 13 As the Police Chief here in the city of 14 Newburgh -- I think you can hear me -- I've said 15 this before: As far as law enforcement is 16 concerned, it should be the last part of the chain, 17 when it comes to the epidemic of heroin and the drug 18 addiction that's related to it. 19 Legislation, education, training, and 20 especially for the young people, is very important, 21 not just Newburgh, but for the entire Hudson Valley, 22 and the entire state. It's in epidemic proportions. 23 I grew up in the '60s, and it was never as 24 bad as it is now. 25 As far as law enforcement is concerned, 1 heroin, especially, is a hard -- it's a hard crime 2 to tackle. 3 Unlike a lot of the drug markets, from my 4 notes, that predominate the entire Hudson Valley, 5 those running heroin are mostly independent and they 6 deal in some quantities. 7 Narcotics officers have indicated to me that 8 dealers and buyers tend to be even more suspicious 9 of outsiders that they don't know. 10 That complicates law enforcement, as far as 11 making arrests when it comes to heroin, for those 12 two reasons; mostly, because the police department 13 has a problem conducting the sort of buy-bust 14 operations that are the baseline for most of our 15 narcotics work, and always has been for years. 16 These are the inherent challenges: 17 Most heroin gets to Newburgh by car. It's 18 delivered that way by dealers who crisscross our 19 neighborhoods. They're not coming down with a kilo. 20 They're coming down and getting an ounce, and then 21 they're splitting it up and spreading it out that 22 way. 23 We've seen indications that some suspects 24 known for mostly selling crack and marijuana are 25 switching now to heroin where the true profits are. 1 Just recently, in the past couple months, in 2 the city of Newburgh, we've made about 60 arrests, 3 and we've seized about 1200 grams of marijuana, 4 60 grams of heroin, 82 grams of PCP, 75 pills, 40 to 5 50 handguns. 6 It's all combined. It's not as organized as 7 you think, but it's a systemic problem that's 8 spreading, not only in Newburgh, but it has to be 9 dealt with. 10 I'm looking forward, as the Police Chief, to 11 distribute the Narcan. That's a great idea. 12 As police officers, if we can do anything, we 13 are first responders. 14 I happened to be a first responder, just the 15 other night. We had a heroin overdose in the city 16 of Newburgh, up on Gidney Avenue. I was one of the 17 first law officers that arrived at the scene. 18 It was too late, even if I had the Narcan 19 with me. 20 But I hope, in the very near future, we will 21 have the training, the policies, and the Narcan for 22 distribution by all officers; and, hopefully, that 23 will save lives. 24 I support the idea. 25 It should come from the New York State 1 Chiefs, downward through all the other police 2 chiefs, which they can spread through their 3 officers. 4 That's it, that I have. 5 GREGORY GAETANO: Thank you. 6 Greg Gaetano from the Sheriff's Office. 7 Just to follow up on what Chief Ferrara had 8 mentioned, our deputies, in our first stipend 9 training, received special training on criminal 10 interdiction, and picking up that -- those drugs as 11 they're floating around Orange County. 12 The Sheriff is committed to narcotics 13 enforcement, be it at a street level, working with 14 different local agencies, working with the 15 District Attorney's Office. 16 I have our commander of our narcotics unit 17 with us today. 18 And, enforcement is important, yes. 19 Education is important, yes. 20 And I think, when we take this multifaceted 21 approach, we're looking at thinking outside the box. 22 It's called a "paradigm shift." 23 And I think that's why it's important for 24 audience members, also, to have an idea of a 25 suggestion. Like a brainstorming session. 1 It might sound crazy, it might sound weird, 2 but it can't hurt. 3 So I've got some ideas that I want to just 4 discuss with the DA and the Senators, in terms of 5 legislation. 6 It might be out there a little bit, but 7 I think it's worth a shot. 8 And as we think outside the box, and continue 9 to think further outside the box, our office is 10 involved in the Operation Safe Scrip. 11 We accept drugs, unwanted prescription 12 medicine, Monday through Friday, 9 to 5. 13 We have special pickups, four times a year. 14 We're going to be setting up in September 15 over at the rec park, picking up hazardous waste and 16 prescription medications. 17 Lieutenant Arteta was recently trained on the 18 use of this Narcan. 19 So these are all good, progressive ideas, in 20 terms of tackling this. 21 But from that multifaceted approach, and 22 thinking outside the box, I think is a 23 collaboration, the dais and the community, we can go 24 forward with fresh ideas. 25 Thank you. 1 CHIEF MICHAEL FERRARA: If I could add one 2 more thing? 3 I've always said, from what we've found out, 4 you know, in law enforcement locally, and over the 5 past few years, of all the drug dealers that we 6 find, it's nothing compared to what grandma has in 7 her medicine cabinet, and what's available. 8 It's prescription medication that the kids 9 get ahold of. And it's just completely -- it's not 10 protected, and it gets into the hands of the -- of 11 young people throughout the city, the county, the 12 state. 13 That's a major issue, and that is -- that's 14 something that should be considered at any given 15 time. 16 [Applause.] 17 JAMES CONKLIN: Actually, 56 percent of the 18 individuals who start with prescription medications, 19 start with it from a friend or family member for 20 free. It's not some deep, dark stranger in some 21 alley who's exposing them. It's a free source. 22 It's friends, family; it's people that they know and 23 care about. 24 It makes it a lot easier when grandma's name 25 is on the bottle. 1 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you very much. 2 Now -- oh, I'm sorry. 3 Mayor? 4 MAYOR JUDY KENNEDY: I think we're probably 5 getting ready to wrap up. 6 Two thoughts that have been stirring around 7 in my mind for, actually, quite a long time, and it 8 doesn't apply at the local level. 9 This problem is not a local problem. It's 10 not a state problem. It's probably not even just a 11 national problem. 12 It's an international problem; and there's so 13 many factors involved with it. 14 And so the two things that I'm thinking 15 about, one of them is a national policy, and the 16 other one may be a national policy in how we deal 17 with it. So, I don't know exactly what we can do as 18 a state. 19 But, you know, the issue of the prescription 20 drugs that come out, and so many of it -- so many of 21 these things start with our young people and getting 22 hooked on the prescription for various reasons: The 23 football player that has the injury. The operation. 24 The hurt, whatever it is. 25 I just had a hip replacement about six, 1 seven weeks ago, and I was encouraged to take as 2 much pain medicine as I wanted. 3 It was, "Don't feel anything." 4 I happen to be one who says, "I want to feel 5 it. I want the know what's going on. I want to 6 understand what my body is doing." 7 That's not a very common practice today in 8 that idea. Everybody takes a pill for everything. 9 So I think there's a cultural problem that we 10 have to deal with. 11 But the prescription companies, let's talk 12 about how to pay for a few things. 13 The companies that make opiate drugs, how 14 about a national policy, that there's a fund that 15 every one of these drug companies need to contribute 16 to for treatment of these drug overdoses? 17 [Applause.] 18 MAYOR JUDY KENNEDY: They're part of the 19 problem, and they need to be part of the solution. 20 And we -- the insurances, that just drives up 21 all of our insurance. 22 But those drug companies, they're making a 23 fortune on this, and they need to be putting into 24 the pot to fix it. 25 And the other policy, and it may sound 1 strange, is our farm policies. 2 I happen to travel internationally, and 3 I have a son that lives in Mexico. 4 And one of the things is, I've really studied 5 the Mexican agriculture. 6 Our farm policies actually killed the Mexican 7 corn farmers' crops, and their ability to sell, 8 because they could not compete with our subsidized 9 corn crops. 10 And so what did they turn to? Something we 11 can't grow. 12 Guess what? There's your source of heroin. 13 And, so, our farm policies have actually 14 driven foreign countries into producing the plants 15 that create the opiate drugs. 16 We have got to start looking at the very 17 source of what's going on. Those are national 18 policies, but they've got to be looked at. 19 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you very much, Mayor. 20 We're going to open it up to comments and 21 questions from the audience in just a couple of 22 minutes. 23 I'd just like to touch on, for the 24 law-enforcement officials here, prosecutors, and 25 police officers: 1 In the various forums we've had so far, we've 2 heard from different DAs and police chiefs about 3 whether the laws are sufficient in terms of 4 prosecution. 5 Generally speaking, I'd say, downstate, they 6 don't think the laws are sufficient enough. 7 Upstate, further upstate, they think they are. 8 What are you feeling in these communities 9 here, Mr. District Attorney, in terms of the current 10 criminal penalties? 11 Can they be increased? And if so, and how 12 would you do it? 13 DA DAVID HOOVLER: I think, in general, what 14 we see here in Orange County, is we see a lot of 15 drug sellers and drug dealers flee from Pennsylvania 16 and come over the border here and make sales in 17 New York, because our drugs are -- our laws are a 18 little more lax. 19 I personally, my opinion, is that I think 20 those who sell drugs, the penalty should be harsher 21 because of the aspect of the selling. 22 But, obviously, in every circumstance, the 23 facts and circumstance of every case, discretion has 24 to be applied. 25 But, in general, I believe they should be 1 harsher, I believe, the penalties. 2 I came through the system as a young 3 prosecutor years ago when the penalties were much 4 harsher. They've been relaxed. 5 I think that this epidemic, there has to be 6 harsher penalties for what is happening. 7 We are seeing more and more repeat offenders 8 who just go through the system, come right back out, 9 and we have to deal with them again. 10 But once again, it's a -- there has to be a 11 global approach. 12 It has to be global; it has to be education, 13 prevention. 14 But I just want to say one thing that 15 Darcie Miller hit on: 16 When people go and they try to seek treatment 17 in an emergency room, and they're turned away, and 18 they haven't met all the requirements that are 19 needed to get into a long-term treatment facility, 20 that is when they are at their weakest; that is when 21 they commit other crimes. 22 And I can tell you that, in Orange County, 23 80 percent of the crimes that we prosecute have some 24 connection to either drug or alcohol abuse. 25 And that is a staggering fact that we have to 1 live with, because it's a cost that we all pay. 2 But for the most part, those that are 3 addicted to opiates, when they are turned away is 4 when they are most likely to commit some other 5 collateral crime; a larceny, a forged check, 6 a theft. And we see more and more of that. 7 And I think, when it comes to this problem, 8 the insurance issue looms so large in this room, 9 that I hope that, somewhere down the road, with the 10 legislators that we have, with our Senators, with 11 our Assembly members, that something can be done in 12 that area, because I think that would help 13 dramatically. 14 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you very much. 15 And we are seeing that, too. 16 In terms of the cost, you're looking at jail 17 versus treatment, and jail is much more expensive 18 wherever -- in any part of the state. 19 I would like to open it up to the audience 20 now, and ask Mr. Matthew Turnbull, a County 21 legislator here in Orange County, to say a few 22 words. 23 MATTHEW TURNBULL: Yeah, my name is 24 Matt Turnbull. I'm a County legislator. I'm also a 25 recovered addict. 1 I was just thinking, while I was sitting 2 there, listening to this panel -- 3 And, by the way, I want to thank the 4 Senators. 5 I want to thank the Senators for this very 6 timely and necessary forum. You know, it is really 7 important that we address this problem, you know, 8 and do it aggressively. And there's just so many 9 things that have been said, that makes it clear to 10 me that the problem is understood, you know, and the 11 importance of doing something is really on the table 12 at this point. 13 So I want to speak to something I really 14 haven't heard much of, you know. 15 You know, I'm still reluctant to talk about 16 this problem of being an addict, you know, because, 17 you know, there's still that sense that, you know: 18 What's wrong with me? 19 You know, why was I that way? 20 Why was I different? 21 Why was I not able to control it? 22 You know, I had a father who used to listen 23 to German marching music. And, you know, to him, it 24 was all about willpower. 25 And that did not work for me. 1 You know, it wasn't until I kind of bought 2 into the disease concept that I started to have 3 success. 4 But, you know, I used all the different 5 drugs. 6 One of my strategies, to keep from getting in 7 trouble, was to go from one drug to another. 8 So when I got addicted to using alcohol, then 9 I would go to barbiturates. And then I would go to 10 using crystal meth intravenously. 11 You know, one thing to another; one drug to 12 another drug. 13 In the '60s -- we all know what happened in 14 the 60s -- made that very possible. Not only 15 possible, but all those drugs were very available 16 back then. 17 At the point I made a decision to get sober, 18 to get drug-free, six years went by from the point 19 that I made that decision, to when I finally got 20 sober. 21 I was in Rockland County. I went to Pomona 22 several times. Went to Rockland State Hospital. 23 I probably lost count. 24 And I went away to a program up here in 25 Sullivan County called "New Horizons," and I was 1 there for a year. 2 I left that program, came back to 3 Rockland County, and I lasted about another year 4 before I picked up again. 5 So my point is, I didn't just decide to get 6 sober and I got sober. It took about six years. 7 The reason I finally got sober was, again, 8 the acceptance that this thing that I was dealing 9 with was going to kill me, unless I made it the most 10 important thing in my life. 11 And, amazingly, it's remained that way for 12 33 years. 13 [Applause.] 14 MATTHEW TURNBULL: The number one important 15 thing in my life is to stay sober and drug-free one 16 day at a time. 17 I continue to do that, and my wife continues 18 to help me to do that. 19 It's kept me very involved in helping others. 20 And, you know, we've all heard the statistic, 21 35 out of 36 addicts die from the disease. 22 "35 out of 36." 23 So the point that was made, that once a 24 person is addicted, it's really -- you know, it's 25 not likely that they're going to recover. 1 However, there is an environment that's 2 successful. 3 The environment that I found, it's called the 4 "12-step program." And that's where I got sober. 5 Amazingly, after all these different programs 6 and places that I went to, which all helped, I got 7 information, but, where I finally did get sober was 8 down in Manhattan. Came out of a hospital after a 9 short period of detoxification, and I went into a 10 room, and I stayed in that room. You know, every 11 day of the week, you know, I worked. I went to 12 meetings. 13 And it's been that way ever since, and now 14 I've gotten to have a life. You know, everything 15 just worked. 16 I was terrified that my two children, you 17 know, would be genetically available to the disease, 18 and I was sure that was going to happen. 19 I guess they heard my story loud and clear. 20 My son didn't drink his first beer until his 21 junior year in college, you know. 22 And my daughter is in her final stages -- 23 just came back from Nigeria, of all places -- in her 24 final stages of completing her doctorate from 25 Brown University. 1 You know, and my point is, that the 2 prevention is super-important, that these -- our 3 children, our most important resource, doesn't start 4 down this road. 5 But once somebody is addicted, they need to 6 know there is a way. 7 You know, we see people come into the rooms 8 and they're mandated. That's a good thing. 9 Most of these mandated people that come into 10 the rooms stay off drugs, you know, because they 11 accept it's an ongoing thing. 12 They need it. They need that daily reprieve, 13 you know. 14 If they don't have that, it's very unlikely 15 that they're going to stay sober. 16 Thank you. 17 [Applause.] 18 VIRGINIA: [Not using a microphone.] 19 Good morning. 20 My name is Virginia. 21 SENATOR BOYLE: Can you use the microphone, 22 because it's being recorded. 23 Thank you. 24 VIRGINIA: Hello. 25 Is that good? 1 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Turn it on. 2 SENATOR LARKIN: A little louder. 3 SENATOR BOYLE: That's good. You're good. 4 VIRGINIA: Okay. 5 Hello, good morning. 6 My name is Virginia. I am a health educator. 7 And, I'm not going to take time to go over my 8 resume. 9 So, I wanted to say, first of all, thank you, 10 thank you, thank you very much, for doing this 11 forum. 12 I do think that this is important. 13 And I do think that every single person on 14 this panel should be congratulated for doing this 15 type of work. 16 One of the first things that you said when 17 you started this discussion, was about involving the 18 community. 19 I am very disappointed that this is what we 20 consider our community, because, Newburgh, the 21 community of Newburgh, would actually have this 22 filled up and lines outside the door. 23 I found out about this forum quite by 24 accident, because I happened to talk to Jim, the 25 director of the Armory, about another program 1 I wanted to do here. 2 And he said: Did you know? 3 And then I went to the website, and I found 4 out about it. And I only spoke to two other people 5 who knew about this program. 6 So -- and I -- I get tons of e-mails every 7 day, and I send out tons of e-mails, and this was 8 not promoted in any way, that I could see, among the 9 community activists of the city of Newburgh. 10 So that's my one criticism. 11 My second one is, that we need to really 12 focus on, and you did talk about prevention. 13 And other than Jim, I don't see a real force. 14 And I know you all understand the role of 15 intervention, but I don't see a real force because, 16 the team of -- Team Newburgh, which provides 17 prevention programs, and I don't mean treatment 18 programs, but has a significant -- we hit the 19 streets twice a month, every two weeks, and -- and 20 have a major activity going on here, was not invited 21 to be on this panel. 22 Why Team Newburgh was not invited to be on 23 this panel really perplexes me. 24 Another question I have is: There are 25 three treatment facilities in the city of Newburgh: 1 Restorative, the Center for Recovery, and 2 Catholic Charities. 3 Now, I know the Greater Hudson Valley Family 4 Health Center is here, but nobody's here from the 5 Center for Recovery, nobody is here from 6 Catholic Charities, and nobody is here from 7 Restorative. 8 Why are they not here? 9 Blaisdell, major, wonderful program. 10 I've referred so many people, and did aftercare for 11 so many people. 12 But we need more people on the front lines, 13 in the forefront, that do this work, to be able to 14 advise us all on what's the best way to get this 15 work done. 16 Who's here from the medical field? Again, 17 the Greater Hudson Valley Family Health Center. 18 And I can tell you, right now, that anybody 19 goes to the Greater Hudson Valley Family Health 20 Center to do doctor shopping, they're going to hit a 21 stop sign, because the Greater Hudson Valley Family 22 Health Center does not allow doctor shopping. Will 23 not just give out opiates indiscriminately. 24 I can't say that for other practices in 25 Newburgh. 1 Okay? 2 So where are all the medical facilities 3 that -- that -- that function here in Newburgh, and 4 treat all our patients, and get a majority -- start 5 that whole ball rolling in a lot of the cases? 6 They're not being addressed here. 7 Anybody here from the school district? 8 Anybody here from the drug courts? 9 I understand the need to make laws. 10 And I agree, that when comes to drug 11 trafficking, we need legislation, we need hard laws. 12 We shouldn't allow people to completely come into 13 our communities and destroy it. 14 I agree 100 percent. 15 But if you really want to solve this problem 16 of drug addiction in a little community like mine 17 that I care about the most, you have to address the 18 hearts and minds of people. 19 You to have the actual people who are really 20 being affected by this on a day-to-day level, come 21 here and tell you what their life is like, and what 22 they need. 23 And until we can hear what people need, we 24 won't be able to begin the healing process. 25 Until we can empower the people who really 1 need the help, so that they can get off of drugs and 2 off of substances, then we won't really make an 3 impact in the community. 4 Thank you. 5 [Applause.] 6 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you, Virginia. 7 I will say that this is not an end. 8 This is -- obviously, we're limited in terms 9 of space for the people today. 10 But any of these groups, any of the groups 11 that you know of, that can contact my office, we're 12 going to be taking testimony. 13 This is wide open. They can e-mail me, call 14 me, call my office, and we're going to use their 15 testimony. 16 UNKNOWN SPEAKER: [Inaudible.] 17 SENATOR BOYLE: Please. 18 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Hello. 19 SENATOR BOYLE: You can just keep talking, it 20 will pick up. 21 Just keep talking. 22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: [Inaudible.] 23 SENATOR BOYLE: No, turn it back on. 24 AUDIENCE MEMBER: [Inaudible] for the drug 25 court in Rockland, but I live in Orange County. 1 And I just want to -- I feel like if I went 2 home and didn't say this, I would be feeling bad 3 tonight: I agree with Darcie, what we need is the 4 ability to get these people the help when they're 5 ready. 6 I can't tell you how many times I have 7 directed somebody to go to a detox, or even a detox 8 that wouldn't take them because they didn't meet 9 this certain criteria, or they get to the point 10 where they're going to go into a 28-day program and 11 they're rejected because they hadn't failed an 12 outpatient program in a certain period of time. 13 That really is very scary, because these 14 people are finally getting to the point where they 15 are accepting help, want help, and we're not able to 16 give it to them. 17 And I just want to say, also, I do agree with 18 the law enforcement dictating them to go to 19 treatment, because I've seen it. I've been working 20 there for 15 years, and it works. It really does. 21 So I just felt, like, you asked us what we 22 need? 23 We need help with the insurance companies and 24 the hospitals to get these people the help. 25 Thank you. 1 [Applause.] 2 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you very much. 3 One of the things I will say -- 4 Please, come on up. 5 -- regarding the requirement of failing, in 6 terms of outpatient, before they're admitted to 7 inpatient, that is one of the areas we're looking at 8 in terms of our legislation, with the issue of 9 "medical necessity." 10 We can't have it. 11 And we've heard it countless times across the 12 state, about parents who try to get their child into 13 treatment and they were told: No, it's not 14 medically necessary. They have to fail at 15 outpatient a few times. 16 And one father told us that he said to them: 17 You mean by "failure," you mean my son overdosing, 18 is what you're really talking about. 19 And that's exactly what happened. 20 Sure. 21 MARTIN COLOVITO [ph.]: My name is 22 Martin Colovito, and I do work with Team Newburgh. 23 I want to echo what Jim started with before, 24 in regard to prevention, and kind of add to that in 25 regard to communities. 1 And I would ask everybody here to look at 2 each and every community almost like they would look 3 at a person that suffered trauma, that suffered 4 depression, that suffer a whole lot of issues, that 5 make them unique. 6 All right? 7 And consider that in regard to whatever we 8 come up here today, because, I want to speak for 9 Newburgh, because that's where I work, that's where 10 my heart is. All right? 11 When I look at Newburgh, and I look at the 12 kids that we deal with all the time, the constant 13 thread is hopelessness. 14 Where do we go from here? 15 Why should I stay in school? 16 There are no jobs. There aren't this, there 17 aren't that. 18 And the collateral issues that feed the 19 problems need to be addressed, because if they're 20 not addressed, the problems aren't going to go away. 21 We are conditioned to react to crisis. 22 As a culture, as a society, we are 23 conditioned to react to crisis. 24 We need to start thinking preventively. 25 I know we talked about that before. 1 And everybody since Jim talked, talked about 2 the kids, the kids, the kids, the kids. 3 Well, if I'm dealing with parents who say, 4 "Thank God my kid's smoking weed, they're not 5 shooting dope," you know -- you know, the perception 6 that the parents have feed the kids. 7 All right? 8 And so, from a treatment perspective, which 9 I worked in for about 30 years, and I'm in 10 prevention for about 5 years, from a treatment 11 prevention, we treat the individual. 12 We take that individual, we embrace them, 13 and, hopefully, it's a compassionate and encouraging 14 environment, and we provide a venue for change. 15 From a prevention perspective, we do the same 16 thing with communities, and with our children and 17 adults. 18 And if we forget the adults, the children are 19 not going to be addressed. 20 So really what I wanted to kind of bring up 21 here is, is the one thing is to recognize the 22 differences in community. 23 How in Port Jervis, being in the tri-states, 24 has an effect on them that doesn't have on Newburgh, 25 but the personality or the culture of Newburgh is 1 different than Port Jervis. 2 But don't forget, if Newburgh goes, 3 Port Jervis goes. 4 You know, if Warwick goes, Newburgh goes. 5 We have to address it collectively, but we 6 have to remember, you know, the individuality of 7 each community. 8 So, I don't want to take any more of your 9 time, but have a good day. 10 SENATOR BOYLE: A great point. 11 Thank you very much. 12 [Applause.] 13 JACK MACK: [Microphone turned off.] 14 My name is Jack Mack from across the river. 15 [Microphone turned on.] 16 JACK MACK: Better? 17 Elected officials, members of the general 18 public, my name is Jack Mack. I'm from across the 19 river in Croton-On-Hudson, in Westchester County, 20 where this Task Force is not holding a public 21 meeting. 22 I have a dog in this fight, because my 23 24-year-old son Casey died of a heroin overdose on 24 Labor Day 2012. 25 Since I only have a couple of minutes, I'll 1 be blunt. 2 What I think you need to hear and do is this: 3 Follow the money. 4 I don't mean the two-bit, small-time drug 5 dealers on the streets. 6 I don't even mean the drug kingpins who we've 7 been hearing about for the last 45 years. 8 I'm talking about the big money. 9 Ask yourself: Who's making a profit from 10 this opioid-overdose crisis? 11 Yes, Mayor [pointing]. 12 My son didn't get his opioid addiction from 13 heroin. He got it from painkillers. 14 20 years ago, you could hardly get a 15 painkiller. 16 Now, it's the most widely used prescription 17 drug in America. 18 What happened? 19 Did we become a nation of weaklings unable to 20 endure any ache or pain? No. 21 What happened, was the drug companies sold us 22 a bill of goods. They spent money, persuading us 23 and our doctors that we didn't have to suffer 24 anymore. 25 Even more deceitful, they told us we didn't 1 have to worry about getting addicted to painkillers. 2 And they have been raking in the profits ever 3 since. 4 If they were selling us poison, you would do 5 something to stop them. 6 But what they are doing is more profitable 7 than poisoning us, because we keep coming back for 8 more. 9 Please, don't cooperate with them. 10 Regulate them. 11 Don't let their experts tell you how much the 12 world needs painkillers; rather, have their experts 13 explain how they're going to bring my son back to 14 life. 15 [Applause.] 16 SENATOR BOYLE: Do you want to go? 17 Go ahead. 18 ROSEANNE SULLIVAN: Hi, my name is 19 Roseanne Sullivan. I'm an Orange County legislator, 20 and I'm also a school board member in the 21 Pine Bush Central School District. 22 I really would like to thank the Senators for 23 sponsoring this today. 24 I am so thrilled that you are putting this at 25 the forefront of your agenda and on your priority 1 list. 2 I have served on a committee with 3 Darcie Miller, the Painkiller Prescription Safety 4 Task Force. And, I found it to be so educating. 5 I had the opportunity to listen to all of the 6 concerns from so many professionals who sat on that 7 committee, and it really confirmed what I was 8 hearing in my community the whole time. 9 I'm speaking today, not only on behalf of my 10 family, but on behalf of dozens of families who live 11 in my district. 12 There are so many cries for help, and they 13 are looking towards us, they're looking towards you, 14 for the help. 15 I'm appalled when I hear families tell me 16 that their children, or their parents, or their 17 grandparents, sought help for addiction and were 18 turned away because they were told that they haven't 19 failed yet. 20 That is appalling. 21 And I'm hoping, that if you take anything 22 away with you today, that this is what you take 23 away. 24 I have been to too many funerals, too many 25 wakes, for people of all ages and people of all 1 demographics. 2 I'm also going to tell you a personal story 3 which is going to come from a different perspective 4 that you may not have heard yet. 5 So almost a year ago, my family and I were 6 involved in a head-on collision. 7 The person who was driving the car was also 8 transporting her 6-month-old grandchild in the car. 9 There were complaints made about her driving 10 from at least 15 miles away. 11 After the accident, she was flown to 12 Westchester Hospital. 13 When she got to the hospital, she refused 14 medical attention and walked away. 15 It was later found that she was in possession 16 of drugs. It could not be proven, though, that she 17 was under the influence. 18 I fractured my back in two different places 19 in that car accident. 20 My husband was injured, and so was my 21 15-year-old daughter. 22 When I tell this story, I tell people how 23 important it is to wear your seatbelts, because I'm 24 telling you right now, those seatbelts were the only 25 thing that saved my life. 1 But the system is broken. And this is a 2 perfect example how the system is broken. 3 I was told that there is a fault in the 4 system that prevented the officer from getting a 5 court order to arrest this person at the hospital. 6 What a shame that this woman got away with 7 this. 8 And what's even worse, and as a school-board 9 member for 17 years, and volunteering in the 10 education field, I have to tell you, and as a 11 mandated reporter, I have to tell you, that I am 12 absolutely disgusted, and so sad, that this woman 13 still has the opportunity to be a caregiver for this 14 child. 15 And it is no one else's fault but our own. 16 So I'm not here to point fingers at anybody. 17 What I'm here is to give you an example of 18 how the system is failing the people who are crying 19 out for help. 20 And if we don't make this a top priority 21 immediately, you will see more examples of this. 22 Many times I sit and wonder, why did this 23 happen to me? 24 And then I think, Well, you know what? Maybe 25 there's some spiritual reason for it. Maybe the car 1 behind me had small 3- and 4-years old in the car. 2 Maybe they didn't have their seatbelts on. 3 So maybe I was able to save their lives. 4 It's a really good way to look at it when you 5 don't have any other answers. 6 And it's a really good way to look at it when 7 you look at a very personal case that absolutely 8 fell between the rocks. 9 And, so, I want to you take this with you 10 today. 11 And please know, that if you ever need my 12 support in any of this, I will be your advocate. 13 I am here to help you. 14 And I really just encourage each and every 15 one of you, I don't know what I could do to help 16 you, but please reach out to me. I'll be there for 17 you, for any help you need. 18 Thank you. 19 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you very much. 20 [Applause.] 21 WENDY ROSARIO: Morning. My name is 22 Wendy Rosario. 23 And I do want to thank you very much. 24 I'm moved by everything that's happened here 25 today. I tend to get very motional. 1 I work for the New York State Department of 2 Corrections and Community Supervision. And I work 3 in an alcohol- and substance-abuse treatment 4 program. 5 I provide treatment to inmates who are 6 chemically dependent: alcohol, drugs, whatever. 7 One of you made a comment about, 85 percent 8 of your arrests, there was a statistic, that they're 9 drug-addicted. 10 I believe I'm correct in what I had said. 11 I sit in these groups with 20 inmates, in a 12 small room, and most of them do not think that 13 they're drug- or alcohol-dependent. And they are. 14 It's very frustrating, it's very scary for 15 me. And I do the best I can as a credentialed -- 16 the CASAC-credentialed alcohol- and substance-abuse 17 treatment counselor and -- and a corrections worker. 18 I coordinate this program, and I try my very 19 best to help these inmates. 20 On one hand, I get very frustrated, because 21 I believe, yes, they need to be in prison. And more 22 people, when you are making the arrests, should do 23 time. 24 And I'm almost becoming a little cynical, in 25 that you should really throw the book at them and 1 keep them in prison for a very long time, to keep 2 our communities safe, and, hopefully, they'll come 3 to the point where they realize that they need 4 treatment. 5 On the other hand, I look at treatment in 6 prison, and I do see that it does help, and that men 7 do get clean and sober, and they go out and they 8 continue to get ongoing help. 9 But there's so many of them that don't. The 10 minute they come home, they forget where they were, 11 and they're right back on that road to destruction. 12 I'm a native Newburgher, born and raised 13 here, and I love my community. 14 I left here for many years, and I'm back 15 because I love Newburgh. 16 I had two late-life babies, twins. 17 They're 12, and I worry. They go to South Middle 18 School. And, there's a lot of problems throughout 19 the community of Newburgh. 20 I talked to Mr. Ragusa [ph.], the principal. 21 And being a prison worker, I offered the 22 program that we have there, where these kids who are 23 very troubled can come in, similar to the 24 Scared-Straight Program, which I'm sure you're all 25 familiar with, and let them see what prison life is. 1 But, again, I know in my heart that you're 2 not ready, unfortunately, until you've hit a deep, 3 dark abyss, that bottom, that only the addict can 4 explain. 5 So I don't know where I'm going with this, 6 other than I will say I'm a little selfish right 7 now. I worry about my 12-year-old twins. 8 They're good kids, and good kids become 9 addicted. 10 They're involved in every activity I can 11 possibly keep them in as a single mom. And I know 12 that these kids, still, oftentimes, end up on that 13 road. 14 I wasn't going to disclose this, but I'm 15 24 years clean and sober, and my life is what it is 16 because of AA and NA. 17 [Applause.] 18 WENDY ROSARIO: Thank you. 19 I've also attend CODA meetings, Al-Anon 20 meetings...every meeting you can talk about. And 21 I've been to the Chit Chat, the family program, 22 which turned my life around. 23 So, I am proud of what I have done, and I do 24 what I do for a living because I believe that people 25 can change. 1 So I'm going to end this with: I just hope 2 that my children are going to be okay, and it's not 3 just about Wendy Rosario's children. It's about all 4 the children in the community of Newburgh where 5 I live that I see hurt and suffer and struggle. 6 And I hate to see this, because I've been 7 down that road. 8 I pray my children don't go down that road. 9 And I thank you all for every possible thing 10 you can do. 11 [Applause.] 12 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you. 13 MARYANN McDONOUGH: Good morning. 14 Is it working yet? 15 SENATOR BOYLE: We just have -- this is a 16 last comment, but I appreciate it very much. 17 Please. 18 MARYANN McDONOUGH: Oh, thank you. 19 Thank you for letting me speak. 20 My name is Maryanne McDonough. I'm a former 21 County employee. I was the managed-care director at 22 Orange County Social Services. 23 Dave Jolly was my boss at the time before my 24 retirement. 25 In the meantime, I've become a very big 1 community activist. 2 And, Mr. Boyle, I guess I'm speaking more 3 directly to you, because I think you're going to be 4 able to take this -- 5 Are you talking to me? 6 SENATOR LARKIN: No, no. Go ahead. 7 MARYANN McDONOUGH: Oh, I thought were you 8 motioning to me. 9 Anyway, I hope you can take some of this 10 information back that I'm going to suggest. 11 Just like the woman that spoke before me, 12 I think there's some key people who are not here 13 today and who need to hear this message. 14 And one of those -- 15 I feel like I'm being sidetracked. 16 Uhm, one of the key people -- some of the key 17 people who are not here are the doctors, because the 18 doctors out there are giving out drugs like they're 19 candy. 20 I know of a particular individual who went to 21 a doctor and said, "I'm an addict. Please don't 22 give me painkillers." 23 And the doctor's famous last words were, 24 "Don't worry, I'll wean you off." 25 The doctors need to be apprised of what the 1 consequences are for addicts. 2 I don't know if you need to send them to 3 AA meetings or Al-Anon meetings or Nar-Anon 4 meetings, but you need to send them somewhere. 5 This is not something that you can go on and 6 off if you have the disease, as Mr. Turnbull said, 7 of being an addict. 8 Other groups I think you should be reaching 9 out to are Al-Anon and Nar-Anon, because those 10 groups are families of addicts, and they would be 11 very happy to hear from you about what they can do 12 to help their families. 13 Because I'm telling you, out there I do a lot 14 of volunteer work. There are families that are 15 hitting their heads against the wall. 16 They are showing up at detoxes and being 17 told: Your family member is not sick enough. They 18 are not in extreme enough withdrawal to get any kind 19 of services. 20 And, lastly, there isn't treatment. 21 If you have insurance, there isn't treatment 22 because the insurance company won't pay for it. 23 If you don't have insurance, then there's no 24 treatment because there's no one to pay for it. 25 These people are suffering out there. 1 And someone on your panel, I don't remember 2 who, said it's not just the addict that's suffering, 3 it's the family member; ultimately, it's the 4 community. 5 And what I would like to know, as a result of 6 this meeting, I'm hoping that this meeting, the 7 meeting you had in Sullivan County, the meeting 8 you're having across the state, that these are not 9 flash-in-the-pan kind of meetings, where you're 10 doing a requirement, and you're going to have people 11 come, and you can, you know, meet your statistics. 12 I'm hoping that there is follow-up to this 13 meeting; that the people who need to be involved, 14 the people who should be involved -- the doctors, 15 the patients, the family members -- that there's 16 going to be something that will follow this meeting, 17 and not just a report. 18 Thank you. 19 [Applause.] 20 SENATOR BOYLE: Maryann, I can assure you 21 that that is not going to be the case. We're going 22 to follow up with legislation. 23 MARYANN McDONOUGH: [Inaudible.] 24 SENATOR BOYLE: We're going to have 25 significant legislation as a result of these 1 hearings. This is not just a report to sit on a 2 shelf someplace. 3 Make it brief. 4 We have last comments, but can you just make 5 a brief comment. 6 AUDIENCE MEMBER: This is going to be brief, 7 I promise. 8 I am a parent of one of the addicts. And 9 I come from Middletown, New York, up here in 10 Orange County. 11 I know we're in Newburgh, and I thank you for 12 the forum that we're having here in Newburgh, but we 13 also have to address all around Orange County. 14 It's not just here. 15 We also have to address, not only -- that 16 I am addressing, also, to what she just said, the 17 young lady said here, in reference to the doctors. 18 There are some doctors that are good doctors, 19 not all, that are willing to help our youngsters, 20 our young adults, and our future communities. 21 But, unfortunately, there is health insurance 22 that do not communicate with these doctors or do not 23 help. 24 In other words, I have a perfect example. 25 I have a doctor here, that had a patient that 1 was doing very well on his treatment. And because 2 he was doing very well on his treatment, after the 3 insurance came and told him they can no longer give 4 him the treatment, after he was doing very well, and 5 the doctor went: Okay, I'm going to prove you a 6 point. 7 He went and put a prescription for Percocet, 8 oxycodone, and right away, this prescription was 9 filled. 10 But for the Suboxone, they weren't filled. 11 Why? We do not know. 12 We must address these insurance companies, 13 also, that we must help our community, and also help 14 those doctors that are willing, and willing to help 15 the communities. 16 And that's what I'm addressing. 17 Because, my son was denied, also, for -- 18 I went from Rockland, I went from Port Jervis, 19 I went all over the place, and because he wasn't 20 sick enough, he was denied help. 21 I had to put him in Middletown MAC. 22 Has any of you been to MAC? 23 It is ridiculous. It is disgusting. 24 Abandoned buildings all over. 25 Why don't we use that area? Why don't we put 1 our monies into that area to educate our future? 2 Okay, they have a disease, but if we educate 3 them, and we take those buildings and put other 4 alternatives for them, they're willing to learn. 5 They're willing to go out there and be a good 6 human being in society. 7 This is our future. Not us; they are. 8 That's what I'm addressing. 9 Help them, also. 10 Take that area. 11 MAC is -- you go at nighttime, go at 12 nighttime, how -- in Middletown MAC looks like. 13 Would you like to leave your kids there? 14 I sure didn't, I really didn't. But did 15 I have another choice? No, I didn't, because he had 16 to go to detox there. He had to go there first 17 before I can take him to RC Ward. 18 And that's how we was accepted to RC Ward. 19 Is he doing great now? Yes, he has. He's 20 going to be two months clean, and he's only 21 18 years old. 22 [Applause.] 23 AUDIENCE MEMBER: "18." 24 And I expect that we can do something. 25 Since we're here in the forum, maybe we can 1 address Middletown. Maybe we can address Newburgh. 2 We can address Port Jervis. 3 We have all Orange County infested with 4 heroin and opiate addiction. 5 It's just not here. 6 We must educate our kids. 7 We must go to the schools, too, and tell them 8 how sick they can get if they get on these drugs. 9 How sick, what could happen to them. 10 This is not being addressed totally and 11 educated in that specific manner. 12 Take our teenagers that have been addicted to 13 all these drugs, take them to educate, and do 14 something positive in the community, to educate the 15 younger generation. 16 That would help, also. 17 So just look into that fact. 18 I'm a parent of concern. 19 I'm a parent of the community. 20 I've also been an advocate for all young 21 adults, and older adults, as well. It's not just 22 that. 23 So, listen, as some doctors are willing to 24 help. They're not saying they're not willing to 25 help. They are. 1 I have one specific one that is willing, and 2 has helped my son very dearly, while others turned 3 away; while insurances didn't cover him. 4 And mind you, they're from Orange County. 5 And that's my point. 6 Thank you very much for listening. 7 [Applause.] 8 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you very much. 9 Thank you. 10 Senator Bonacic? 11 SENATOR BONACIC: First of all, let me thank 12 our distinguished panelists for sharing their 13 experiences. 14 We had a forum last week in Sullivan County, 15 and I can tell you that the experience and concerns 16 that we heard today are similar to what we heard in 17 Sullivan County. 18 I want to thank the audience members who 19 spoke. 20 I want to thank Pete Lasier [ph.] who's here, 21 who didn't speak, who lost his son to heroin 22 experiences, who's been a strong advocate, and a 23 partner with us, in trying to push back this heroin 24 epidemic. 25 Two thoughts that I'd like to share with you, 1 that Chairman Boyle and Senator Larkin know about. 2 Number one: Drug cartels are very 3 intelligent. 4 Heroin has been around for 40 years. 5 The reason everybody is embracing it, because 6 it's cheap, and we've squeezed the pharmacists and 7 the physicians for excessive prescriptions for 8 opiates. 9 So what we're trying to do at the state 10 level, is to have a holistic approach to be ready 11 if, next year, there's a synthetic drug that's cheap 12 than heroin, and something else comes at us, and 13 we're ready. 14 The second point that I would like to make, 15 is that the Sheriff of Sullivan County came out and 16 said, "My daughter is a heroin addict." 17 It's extremely important, that if a family 18 member is addicted to heroin, that you don't keep it 19 a secret. 20 And I congratulate those people that have 21 come forward, because if we had a member that had 22 cancer in our family, we would say "our family 23 member has cancer." 24 It's not something to run away from. 25 It's something to get out there, to admit it, 1 so we can face the problem and try to get help for 2 members of those families. 3 I thank you all for being here. 4 Thank you. 5 [Applause.] 6 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you, Senator Bonacic. 7 And I would like to also -- 8 Oh, yes. These officials have to run. 9 Just, very briefly: 10 Thank you all for coming. 11 Thank you for the panelists, for tremendous 12 information. 13 And, thank you, we've also been joined by 14 Lee Redfern [ph.]. She was a clerk on our Drug and 15 Alcoholism Senate Task Force in Albany, and was at 16 the beginning of these forums. 17 Thank you. 18 Now she's come to Newburgh to go to nursing 19 school, and help in another way. 20 But I do want to thank all of you. 21 We had great information. 22 This is not the end, as I said. 23 Please, contact our office. 24 If you think of something tonight that you 25 forgot to say, please contact us. It's B-O-Y-L-E. 1 You can Google it. 2 And, again, thank you so much, 3 Senator Larkin, for hosting this wonderful forum. 4 [Applause.] 5 SENATOR LARKIN: I don't want to be 6 repetitive, but John covered everything that we've 7 been looking at. 8 And as you heard from Senator Boyle, we hope 9 to have something done, we will be, before the end 10 of June. 11 But the most important thing is, don't leave 12 here today and say: They're going to take care of 13 it. 14 We can't take care of it if you don't come to 15 us. You're in the communities, you know it. 16 The panelists here explained of how they 17 address it. 18 Some people would love to speak today, but 19 they don't like to do it in public. 20 Send us your message. 21 Make sure that what we put in writing and 22 makes it law, it's something that you know and 23 understand. 24 This is the biggest incident. It's bigger 25 than Ukraine, it's bigger than Africa, it's bigger 1 than this. 2 This is something that affects America 3 100 percent. 4 Please help us, because we will then be able 5 to help you and your families. 6 Thank you. 7 [Applause.] 8 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you, Bill. 9 [Applause.] 10 11 (Whereupon, at approximately 11:41 a.m., 12 the forum held before the New York State Joint 13 Task Force on Heroin and Opioid Addiction 14 concluded, and adjourned.) 15 16 ---oOo--- 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25