Public Hearing the Future of Sheltered Workshops in New York State for Families and Individuals with Developmental and Intellectual Disabilities

Senior Manager, Business Development & 19 Governmental Affairs

New York State Industries for the Disabled 20

Lani Churley 124 137 21 Director of Program Services

Southeast Works 22 23 24 25 1

SPEAKERS (Continued): PAGE QUESTIONS 2

Gregory Cavanaugh 140 142 3 General Manager

Buffalo Felt 4

Martin Powers 144 5 A Parent 6 Karen Duboy 144

A Parent 7

Chris Peterson 158 8 Representative of

ARC of Livingston-Wyoming 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 SENATOR ORTT: Good evening. 2 I just wanted to welcome everyone here for 3 this Committee hearing on sheltered workshops, 4 specifically on what the future holds, and the plan, 5 for sheltered workshops here in New York State. 6 At this time, what I would like to do, 7 I guess we will start with the pledge to the flag, 8 and then I'll go through some recognitions, I'll 9 announce who's going to be speaking, and I'll go 10 over some of the ground rules for tonight as well. 11 So, why don't we start with the pledge. 12 If we can all rise. 13 (Everyone stands, and says:) 14 "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the 15 United States of America and to the republic for 16 which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, 17 with liberty and justice for all." 18 SENATOR ORTT: All right. Certainly want to 19 thank everyone again for being here. 20 I want to thank, particularly my colleagues. 21 To my left, your right, is 22 Senator Mike Ranzenhofer, and, of course, to my 23 right, and your left, is Senator Pat Gallivan. 24 All three of us represent districts, part of 25 Western New York. 1 I think we all go into Monroe County. 2 I have all of Niagara County and Orleans 3 counties. 4 And I know Senator Gallivan has Livingston, 5 and Wyoming... 6 SENATOR GALLIVAN: And Monroe and Erie. 7 ...and Monroe, and Erie. 8 And, Mike, I know you have Monroe, Erie... 9 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: And Genesee. 10 SENATOR ORTT: ...and Genesee. 11 So, pretty much, almost all of 12 Western New York, somehow, is encompassed in one of 13 our districts. 14 But, this is a very important issue, not just 15 here in Western New York, but across the state, and 16 in some ways, across the country, because of what's 17 happening at the federal level as well. 18 So, I want to thank both of them for being 19 here. 20 For those who don't know, I am the -- I think 21 my name plate might say it, but I am the Chair of 22 the Standing Committee on Mental Health and 23 Developmental Disabilities. I have served in that 24 role since February of this year. 25 And it really has been an honor to work 1 alongside and advocate for this community, both from 2 the mental-health perspective, as well as the 3 developmental-disability perspective. 4 And, certainly, is a privilege to be here 5 tonight. 6 I'm going to go through the list of folks who 7 are going to be testifying, just so everyone sort of 8 has that up front. 9 We have Kevin Penberthy. He is the deputy 10 director of the Western New York Regional Office of 11 OPWDD. 12 We have Michael Seereiter, president and CEO 13 of New York State Rehabilitation Association. 14 Lindsay Miller, executive director from the 15 New York State Association on Independent Living. 16 Jennifer Monthie, director of protection and 17 advocacy for individuals with ID and DD, Disability 18 Rights of New York. 19 David Zenger from the Zenger Group. 20 Christopher Porter from Heritage Centers. 21 Todd Vaarwerk from Western New York 22 Independent Living. 23 Cory Heritage from New York State Industries 24 for the Disabled. 25 Lani Churley from Southeast Works. 1 Gregory Cavanaugh from Buffalo Felt. He's 2 the general manager. 3 Martin Powers, who is a parent. 4 We also have Karen Duboy. 5 And, Chris Peterson. Chris is from the ARC 6 of Livingston-Wyoming. 7 So all of those individuals will be giving 8 testimony. 9 And I guess I just also wanted to recognize 10 Kelly Ancy (ph.) from the ARC of Orleans is also 11 here, but she will not be giving testimony. 12 Just wanted to go over just a quick couple of 13 ground rules before we begin here. 14 Everyone is going to -- if you could limit 15 your testimony to around 10 minutes. 16 I only say that because, as you just heard, 17 we have several folks who are going to be speaking. 18 If you could self-regulate, that would be 19 great, so that one of us wouldn't have to sort of be 20 the ref, if you would, or be the timekeeper. 21 But, we will be keeping time. 22 And, of course, you know, we want to try to 23 get everyone heard, and out, you know, within a 24 reasonable time frame this evening. 25 Certainly -- now this is not a Town Hall, so 1 it's not going to be sort of an open forum. It's a 2 hearing, which is very different. 3 Folks will be coming up. The hearing is -- 4 they have to identify themselves. Everything is 5 transcribed and recorded. 6 And there would be a record of this, if 7 anyone wanted it, after the fact. 8 If someone does have any questions for myself 9 or my colleagues or any one of the folks who are 10 giving testimony, you certainly can, you know, ask 11 them off to the side, or you can just, you know, 12 stay afterward. 13 I'll be happy to answer any questions. I'm 14 sure my colleagues may as well. 15 But I would just ask you to refrain from, you 16 know, calling out or standing up during the 17 testimony, if you would. 18 With that, obviously, we're here to talk 19 about sheltered workshops, a very important issue. 20 As most of you may know, in 2013, OPWDD, in 21 compliance with an executive order issued by the 22 Governor, stopped accepting new folks into sheltered 23 workshops. And, in 2020, the funding for sheltered 24 workshops will have ceased. 25 OPWDD is currently undertaking a transition 1 period, you know, to prepare for more community 2 supports, more investment in the community, after 3 2020, for folks who are in sheltered workshops 4 today. 5 So, again, no new folks are entering 6 sheltered workshops at this time. And the goal is, 7 by 2020, they will be -- they will cease. 8 Some of this is a result of a Supreme Court 9 case, or the interpretation of Supreme Court cases. 10 Some of this is at the federal level. 11 CMS is certainly, I think, pushing this or 12 advocating this. 13 And, of course, some of this is a 14 determination at the state level, by the Governor 15 and by the folks at OPWDD, to move in this 16 direction. 17 I know there's a lot of questions amongst 18 from parents, from providers, and from advocates out 19 there, and those questions need to be answered. 20 And that's why we're here tonight, hopefully, 21 to get some testimony, to answer some of these 22 questions. 23 If, for some reason, again, your question -- 24 your specific question is not answered, please, you 25 know, write it down. 1 Approach me, you can certainly reach out to 2 my office, and we'll try to get answers for you. 3 So, with that, I guess I would turn it over 4 to my -- either of my colleagues. 5 We'll start with, Senator Ranzenhofer, if you 6 have any opening comments, or anything that you want 7 to say? 8 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Sure. 9 Is this on? 10 We're good. 11 Good evening, everybody, and welcome to the 12 University of Buffalo. 13 You're actually in my home district, in the 14 town of Amherst, so I welcome everybody here. 15 This is a great venue, centrally located. 16 We've had a number of events here. 17 And this is a very, very important subject 18 matter. 19 I want to commend my colleagues: 20 Senator Gallivan, who has been very 21 interested in this issue for a number of years; 22 And, obviously, Senator Ortt, who is the 23 Chair of the Committee that deals with this issue. 24 He has been a steadfast advocate, and a real 25 welcome addition to our conference, in advocating 1 for people with developmental disabilities and the 2 disabled. 3 So, his leadership on this issue is crucial. 4 And the fact that we are actually having a 5 hearing here this evening is very, very important, 6 and we owe him a great debt of gratitude for 7 arranging this, for people to come in and to share 8 their views. 9 We're really here to listen to you. 10 I've been involved personally in this issue 11 for a number of years. I've actually toured a 12 number of the sheltered workshops, and, you know, 13 I have my own personal opinions on the direction 14 that this is heading. 15 But, I certainly would like to hear from you. 16 Just one of the things, as having attended 17 many public hearings, we have all of the testimony 18 in front of us, so don't feel compelled to come up 19 and read to us, because we can read, and we do read 20 everything that you've submitted. 21 We'd -- you know, it would be much better, or 22 much -- at least, I'll just speak for myself, would 23 much prefer to have you talk to us, rather than read 24 to us, so we -- you know, so we really know what 25 you're thinking and how you feel about these issues, 1 because, as I said, you know, we have all of the 2 written documentation. 3 So, again, you know, I could talk for a 4 while. 5 I'm sure that Senator Gallivan has a couple 6 of comments as well. 7 But we're really here to hear from this 8 comments as well, but we're really here to hear from 9 this community, and from you individually. 10 So, again, I just want to commend 11 Senator Ortt for convening this public hearing. 12 This will be a matter of public record, and 13 I look forward to hearing the comments from all of 14 you tonight. 15 SENATOR ORTT: Thank you, Senator. 16 Senator Gallivan. 17 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you, Senator. 18 Good evening, everybody. 19 I would like to thank everybody for taking 20 the time, my colleagues as well, for being here, to 21 talk about an issue of great concern to so many. 22 So many of you, I know, so many constituents 23 throughout the four-county area that I represent, 24 have expressed concern to me, and to my office. 25 And we've been involved in this particular 1 issue over the past several years, and -- and trying 2 to get someone to listen, and trying to address what 3 the future, in this particular case is, the 4 employment plan, the future of so-called "sheltered 5 workshops," that I think, in different parts of the 6 state, and in different parts of the country, 7 conjure up a much different image than what we're 8 used to here. 9 About a month or two ago, the commissioner of 10 OPWDD was out at the eastern end of my district, and 11 traveled in other areas as well. 12 But, really, I came across, when she was out 13 here and visited some of the workshops, she had a 14 much different view of what -- I think it was a very 15 pleasant surprise. 16 You see some of the horror stories that were 17 outlined in "The New York Times," "USA Today," and 18 other parts of the country. 19 And, clearly, that is not what our experience 20 is here in Western New York: Greater Rochester, 21 Greater Buffalo, areas. 22 And I think it's incumbent on all of us to 23 continue to advocate. And I think that you're doing 24 a very good job of it, so much so, that, last year, 25 when OPWDD traveled across the state, with what they 1 called "community dialogues," they appeared to have 2 listened, somewhat. 3 I don't necessarily agree with OPWDD and 4 their interpretation of the Olmstead Act, and the 5 plan that was put together, and I have corresponded 6 with them many times. 7 But I will say that, when they were out in 8 Western New York about a month and a half, 9 two months ago, I heard evidence that they were 10 listening to people. 11 And the draft plan, as being put forward, was 12 different than it was two years ago. 13 And OPWDD deserves credit for listening. 14 I don't know where we'll ultimately go, but 15 I'm anxious to hear testimony today, they are first 16 up, to see where they are with what their plan is. 17 That being said, I'm very concerned like you 18 are, about the future of these workshops, and 19 about -- more importantly, about the future of the 20 people that are in them. 21 And, that approximate 50 percent, by the 22 statistics that OPWDD has provided to many, that if 23 they were to go ahead with the plan, that likely 24 could not succeed or compete in a competitive 25 employment environment. 1 And the question, of course, is, then what, 2 I mean, for our families, and more importantly, for 3 the individuals? 4 So, thanks for being here, and advocating. 5 I do look forward to your testimony. 6 And after today, just understand, we're not 7 done. 8 We are part of the legislative branch, trying 9 to influence state policy in dealing with the 10 executive branch, whether it's through budget 11 appropriations or state law, and, hopefully, 12 properly representing your views on this, and other 13 issues. 14 So as I mentioned, I look forward to hearing 15 everybody's testimony. 16 And I'd ask you, after tonight, please, keep 17 it up. 18 SENATOR ORTT: Thank you, Senator. 19 I would call Kevin Penberthy from OPWDD. 20 KEVIN PENBERTHY: Thank you. 21 With no disrespect intended, I will be 22 reading to you. 23 Good evening, Senator Ortt, Senator Gallivan, 24 and Senator Ranzenhofer, and all in attendance this 25 evening. 1 Thank you to everyone for being here tonight, 2 to take the time to participate in this important 3 hearing. 4 Acting Commissioner Delaney was unable to 5 attend this evening due to prior commitments, but 6 she has asked me to speak on her behalf. 7 My name is Kevin Penberthy, and I am the 8 deputy director of the Office for People with 9 Developmental Disabilities in Western New York. 10 Providing opportunities for supports and 11 services in the most integrated setting possible is 12 a core component of OPWDD's mission, vision, and 13 values, as required by the U.S. Supreme Court's 14 Olmstead decision. 15 Additionally, in 2014, Governor Cuomo issued 16 Executive Order 136, creating an Employment First 17 policy for New York, which makes competitive, 18 integrative employment the first option when 19 considering supports and services for people with 20 disabilities. 21 OPWDD began a system-wide transformation 22 several years ago. 23 The goal, is to provide supports that are 24 fully integrated into every person's community of 25 choice, are person-centered, and are focused on 1 individual needs and preferences. 2 Offering more opportunities for community 3 living, employment, and self-direction are at the 4 heart of what we are doing to accomplish these 5 goals. 6 New York State ended new admissions to 7 sheltered workshops as of July 1, 2013, as part of 8 our transformation agreement with the Centers for 9 Medicare and Medicaid Services, and will cease 10 funding for them in 2020. 11 This agreement is in line with the recent 12 regulations issued by the federal government which 13 end funding for non-integrated workshop -- excuse 14 me, workplace settings nationwide. 15 The period between 2013, when OPWDD entered 16 into the transformation agreement, and 2020, when 17 funding for non-integrated settings will cease, is a 18 transition period. 19 During the transition period, OPWDD is 20 working to assist people with developmental 21 disabilities, and identifying community employment 22 opportunities, and working with sheltered-workshop 23 providers that wish to become integrated models, in 24 making the transition. 25 For example, in an effort to improve 1 integrated employment opportunities, we have created 2 a pre-employment service called "Pathways to 3 Employment," which is designed to provide people 4 with the skills to transition from a 5 sheltered-workshop setting into employment. 6 In addition, OPWDD has redesigned supportive 7 employment services to better meet the needs of 8 people who need intensive job development and 9 coaching services, and created a community 10 prevocational option to provide supports to people 11 who need long-term job-readiness services. 12 To address the anxiety that many families are 13 experiencing about the transition in employment 14 services, OPWDD has engaged in over two years of 15 unprecedented public outreach to make sure that 16 stakeholder opinions were incorporated throughout 17 the planning process. 18 By the time OPWDD issues guidance -- issues a 19 guidance document to the field later this fall, 20 OPWDD will document to the -- excuse me, OPWDD will 21 have hosted approximately 40 public-outreach events, 22 and will have spoken to or solicited comments and 23 feedback from over 2,000 individuals, family 24 members, and providers. 25 OPWDD is also working in partnership with 1 providers of employment services, to facilitate the 2 transition, and increase providers' capacity to 3 offer employment services, by training supervisors, 4 job developers, and job coaches. 5 OPWDD has also made fiscal support for 6 providers of transition services a priority. 7 For example, OPWDD recently awarded 8 $18 million in BIP transformation grants to 9 63 agency employment proposals related to the 10 transition of people with developmental 11 disabilities, from workshops and day habilitation, 12 to competitive employment; retirement strategies for 13 people transitioning from workshops; transportation 14 strategies for people engaged in employment and 15 meaningful activities; provider-owned businesses 16 that will create competitive employment 17 opportunities for people transitioning from 18 workshops; and transitioning students from 19 high school to competitive employment. 20 In May, OPWDD hosted a meeting, to which 21 every workshop provider in the state was invited to 22 provide feedback on best ways to transition to 23 integrated work models. 24 OPWDD will be issuing guidance as a product 25 of this May meeting, to provide further assistance 1 to workshop providers in making this transition. 2 This guidance will assist providers in 3 transitioning their current workshop models into 4 integrated employment opportunities that can better 5 support individuals and continue to receive Medicaid 6 funds. 7 In October, OPWDD will also be hosting 8 10 public forums throughout the state to solicit 9 additional feedback. 10 One public forum is scheduled for 11 October 23rd in Batavia. 12 This working meeting will enable stakeholders 13 to give OPWDD additional feedback on the revised 14 plan to transition workshops into integrated 15 businesses. 16 The revised plan will be shared prior to 17 these forums. 18 OPWDD has learned much from outreach. 19 Many individuals and advocates are excited 20 about the possibility of being presented with more 21 opportunities for career choices and advancement, 22 while others fear of the changes. 23 One thing is clear: 24 There is no "one size fits all" solution, 25 which is why we need the feedback of people 1 receiving our services, family members, and 2 providers providing those services, so that we can 3 make sure that appropriate integrated opportunities 4 are available for every person at every ability 5 level. 6 In conclusion: 7 Thank you very much for inviting OPWDD to say 8 a few words this evening. 9 We will continue to seek input from people 10 receiving our supports, family members, advocates, 11 and providers, as we move forward, and make 12 adjustments as necessary, as we work together to 13 ensure a brighter future for individuals with 14 developmental disabilities. 15 Thank you. 16 SENATOR ORTT: Thank you, Kevin. 17 I appreciate you being here. 18 I just had a couple of questions that 19 I wanted to ask you in relation to your testimony. 20 Has OPWDD been reviewing, you know, have you 21 looked what other states specifically are doing or 22 have done? 23 I know not every state is in the same spot we 24 are, but, if you look at other states? 25 And, I guess, if so, what states are a model, 1 I guess, for New York, or what states have seen 2 success in some of the transitions? 3 KEVIN PENBERTHY: Yes, we are, in fact, 4 looking at other states. 5 I would defer on giving recommendations on 6 best practice, but I can certainly get that 7 information to you, Senator. 8 SENATOR ORTT: I know OPWDD has been 9 communicating with CMS. 10 What about the Department of Justice? 11 KEVIN PENBERTHY: I'm not aware of a 12 communication in that regard, Senator, but I can 13 certainly get that as well. 14 SENATOR ORTT: And, you know, one of the -- 15 as you know, one of the things that comes up, 16 certainly, a lot, I know it comes up to me a lot, 17 and I'm sure it comes up to my colleagues, and, you 18 know, one of the real pressing matters facing OPWDD 19 right now, and facing a lot of folks here, and 20 families, is the families who are -- whose children 21 are aging out of SED programs. 22 And I think they're very concerned about, my 23 children's -- my son or daughter is aging out, and, 24 they're in a sheltered workshop on top of it. 25 What's going to be there? 1 So, I guess, what have you -- what would you 2 say to those parents, or what are some of the steps 3 that OPWDD has taken, to address specifically that 4 group of folks? 5 KEVIN PENBERTHY: Sure. 6 Well, I think that we're concerned about 7 individuals transitioning school at every level of 8 the system, be it those individuals that need 9 comprehensive services in a day-habilitation 10 setting, those individuals that are not yet ready 11 for employment and need prevocational services, as 12 well as those individuals that would have formally 13 entered into sheltered work. 14 So that is one of the reasons we're 15 continuing to review programs, such as Pathways to 16 Employment, looking at ways that we can enhance our 17 supportive employment opportunities, as well as 18 looking at opportunities for individuals to move 19 more flexibly between programs. 20 I know that one of the concerns that is often 21 raised by families is -- is the ability to perhaps 22 return to a setting that may not -- if the setting 23 which the person is going to may not work, the 24 ability to return. 25 And OPWDD is also looking at being able to, 1 both, offer individuals that opportunity, as well as 2 offering individuals the opportunity for blended 3 services. 4 So what I would say to families who are 5 anxious is that, we absolutely share your concerns, 6 and are dedicated to continuing to look at how we 7 can best provide those supports at every level. 8 SENATOR ORTT: Okay. 9 Do you think -- in your professional opinion, 10 do you think that 2020 is enough time to get this 11 transition completed, and all of these services, you 12 know, online, if you would? 13 Because I think that's a real -- that -- and 14 right or wrong, but I think one of the problems is 15 that, a lot of families who have dealt with OPWDD 16 over the years, you've done transitionally this in 17 the past, maybe unrelated to sheltered workshops, 18 but maybe others, they haven't always seen the 19 promised services and supports when they get there. 20 It's sort of like, they have to catch up to 21 the families or to the individual. 22 And I think there's a real, maybe, lack of 23 confidence. 24 So I guess my question is: Is 2020 the right 25 date? 1 And if it's not, can that be moved further to 2 the right? 3 KEVIN PENBERTHY: So, I cannot speak to the 4 movement of the date. 5 And I can tell you that, yes, 2020 will be a 6 challenge, that will require us, not only to make 7 sure that we incorporate the feedback that we're 8 going to be provided, but to act on it. 9 SENATOR ORTT: Okay. 10 That's all I have for now. 11 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thanks for being here 12 tonight, Kevin. 13 I have a couple of questions. 14 I have many questions, but I know that 15 there's some that you would not be in a position to 16 answer. 17 So, hopefully, you can answer the questions 18 that I'll put forward, and they're in a couple 19 different areas. 20 What is -- so we've got the notion of 21 providing opportunities in the most integrated 22 setting possible. 23 So, we go back to the Olmstead decision that 24 requires that: an opportunity for the most 25 integrated setting possible. 1 I think a key word there is, the 2 "opportunity." 3 So, for some people, an integrated setting 4 might be the best thing for them, the best 5 opportunity for them. 6 For some individuals, as many families have 7 expressed to me, there might be an opportunity for 8 them, but it might not be right for them. 9 And then the concern, of course, is: 10 A program that they've participated in for years, or 11 somebody that has -- hits age 21, something that 12 they may have looked forward to is no longer 13 available. 14 So, when we look at that definition -- or, 15 the integrated setting, and I know this has been 16 kind of a moving target, which is, really, gets to 17 what my question is: 18 What is an "integrated setting"? 19 What is it? 20 I mean, I know there was no answer at the 21 beginning. It has been a moving target. 22 What I alluded to earlier, this is, I know, 23 one of the things that OPWDD was talking with people 24 with across the state, and there's been some 25 movement on. 1 But, can you tell us what an "integrated 2 setting" is, and, what it is not? 3 KEVIN PENBERTHY: So my response would be 4 that, perhaps the reason that it's a moving target 5 is that an integrated setting would be -- the most 6 integrated setting would be different for every 7 individual. 8 I can tell you that OPWDD is looking at ways 9 to provide integration at every level of service 10 provision. 11 So, integration for an individual in a 12 day-habilitation program may well be looking at the 13 way to provide opportunities for community 14 interaction within that program. 15 Integration in employment could involve 16 looking at who the individual not only works with, 17 who he or she may travel with, who he or she may 18 come in contact with throughout the day, and where 19 that work is done. 20 And, in ensuring that individuals, dependent 21 on their skill set, are offered the opportunity, 22 each and every day, to be working in an environment 23 where they have the opportunity to interact with, 24 both, their peers, as well as individuals that are 25 not disabled. 1 SENATOR GALLIVAN: I'm assuming that the 2 final proposed guidelines have not been put forward 3 yet? 4 KEVIN PENBERTHY: That is correct. We're 5 anticipating them within the next month. 6 SENATOR GALLIVAN: And how an "integrated 7 setting" would be defined, that would be included in 8 there, I'm assuming, at the time? 9 KEVIN PENBERTHY: Yes. I'm assuming that 10 additional guidance in that regard will be provided. 11 SENATOR GALLIVAN: The guidelines that will 12 be put forward in about a month or so, is there the 13 ability to address them if people are not in 14 agreement or things are not workable? 15 KEVIN PENBERTHY: OPWDD is committed to 16 continued dialogue with individuals and 17 stakeholders. 18 And the good news, I suppose, is that we have 19 the time to do that. 20 So, yes, OPWDD will be continuing to have 21 communication with stakeholders after the guidance 22 is issued. 23 SENATOR GALLIVAN: I think I heard during 24 your testimony, and I had raised it a little 25 earlier, the estimates of the 50 -- approximately 1 50 percent of people that competitive employment is 2 likely not for them. 3 But the Pathways that you -- I think you 4 talked in a little bit more global terms about some 5 of those other avenues to try to address that 6 approximately 50 percent. 7 Is that accurate on my part? 8 KEVIN PENBERTHY: Yes. 9 I think that OPWDD is committed to ensuring 10 that individuals who have the ability to work 11 competitively are offered that opportunity. 12 We also realize that not every individual 13 with a developmental disability has the opportunity 14 to work full-time. 15 And that, in addition to employment 16 opportunities, if they cannot work and maintain a 17 competitive job, or as you had indicated, are not 18 capable, that they're also provided opportunities to 19 develop vocational skills and/or the life skills 20 that they need to be as independent as possible. 21 SENATOR GALLIVAN: How about the -- this has 22 been, if I remember, somewhat consistent over the 23 past two years, where there's been talk of 24 retirement strategies, and I know that it is very 25 scary to many families. 1 So, what's a "retirement strategy"? 2 How is somebody identified? 3 And, essentially, for people that don't have 4 some of these special needs, many of them think, 5 I can't wait until retirement. I get to sit and do 6 nothing, and enjoy something. 7 But I think that is the scariest part for 8 families, is somebody being forced into some sort of 9 retirement strategy, with nothing, you know, for an 10 individual who either needs something, desires 11 something, it's been very good for the individual, 12 for the family, for their community. 13 So, what's a "retirement strategy"? 14 Who's targeted by that, and what will happen 15 to them? 16 KEVIN PENBERTHY: Well, again, I would state 17 that retirement strategies are also individualized. 18 We have individuals currently working in a 19 variety of settings, including sheltered employment, 20 who continue to go to work every day well into their 21 60s, and older. 22 So I don't know that we're forcing anybody 23 into retirement, but, we are certainly looking, 24 system-wide, as our -- the individuals we serve age, 25 how we can best support them, and -- in either 1 recreation/leisure opportunities, or other avenues. 2 So I don't know that we're looking to force 3 people into retirement. 4 SENATOR GALLIVAN: I think it would be more 5 appropriate on my part to wait until the guidelines 6 come out, to further develop that. 7 But I just want to -- I would ask that you 8 carry that back to the commissioner, I mean, that 9 notion, among others, is very scary for families. 10 And a real concern has been articulated to me 11 by a number of different people, of their loved one 12 being "put out to pasture" as a means to save money. 13 And so that is a concern in going forward, so 14 please pass it on. 15 My final question is, and Senator Ortt had 16 alluded to this a little bit earlier as well, 17 because we've heard from different state agencies 18 over years about community-based services -- OMH is 19 one of them, and I know you're not OMH -- about 20 putting these community-based services and having 21 them in place before we make this transition. And 22 time and time again, the State hasn't delivered on 23 that over many, many years. 24 Do you -- does your agency, I mean, have the 25 resources to be doing all the things that you're 1 trying to do? 2 And if you don't, where will you get them 3 from? 4 KEVIN PENBERTHY: Well, again, I would defer 5 to the commissioner in regard to the level of 6 resources that we have, and what we need to move 7 forward. 8 I would reiterate that, as the Senator had 9 indicated, 2020 is a challenging date, but, it's 10 also -- it's also a date that allows us the time to 11 develop the appropriate strategies that we're going 12 to need, to make sure that those concerns are 13 addressed appropriately. 14 SENATOR GALLIVAN: All right. Thank you. 15 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Kevin, first of all, 16 thanks for being here today and providing your 17 testimony. 18 I do have a couple of questions. 19 With respect to some of the sheltered 20 workshops that are run by the State, are some of the 21 programming provided or run with state dollars 22 primarily? 23 KEVIN PENBERTHY: Yeah, I -- I want to make 24 sure that I understand your question correctly, 25 Senator. 1 So the State -- the State proper does, in 2 fact, provide sheltered employment services to some 3 individuals; and, yes, that would be provided with 4 Medicaid dollars as well. So they would be -- they 5 would need to follow the same guidelines. 6 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Well, that's my 7 question: 8 I mean, if we're using primarily state 9 dollars, are there some programs that -- you know, 10 that are -- would be subject to just New York State 11 regulations and guidelines, as opposed to the 12 federal guidelines? 13 KEVIN PENBERTHY: Well, certainly, 14 New York State would have additional discretion in 15 regards to the state -- the state dollars that are 16 utilized. 17 But, the concern is, obviously, the things 18 that we would need to do in order to maintain the 19 federal Medicaid ability for those programs that are 20 funded that way. 21 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Okay. So let me ask 22 you: 23 I understand the theory of trying to get 24 people into the most competitive type of employment 25 that you can. 1 So, you're not saying that -- I mean, are you 2 trying to, not you personally, but, is the state 3 trying to then limit options that folks have? 4 Because I've to places like 5 Goodwill Industries in Buffalo, and 6 Lifetime Assistance in Rochester, where, you know, 7 they have programs for the developmentally disabled. 8 So when you close the workshops, are you 9 really limiting the choices that people have? 10 Because I think that you yourself testified 11 that some people may be better able to transition 12 into competitive positions, that some people just 13 can't. 14 And that's been a concern that's been 15 expressed by many, many families. 16 So if you don't have a fallback position for 17 those that cannot transition into competitive 18 workplace, and you don't want to, quote/unquote, 19 retire them, which means that they'll sit home and 20 do nothing, are you really not achieving your goal 21 in providing as many avenues for people with 22 disabilities along the total continuum of the 23 disability scale? 24 KEVIN PENBERTHY: Well, absolutely, if 25 that's -- if that's what -- that's what will happen 1 if we don't do what we need to do. 2 I can say that, that it's our goal to 3 absolutely not limit individuals' possibilities; and 4 that, instead, to enhance the possibilities that 5 they could have when they leave sheltered 6 employment. 7 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: So then what's the game 8 plan? 9 Okay. The thought is, obviously, to try to 10 get people into competitive environment. 11 And let's say you're able to do that with 12 some folks. 13 On the other hand, you're going to be -- you 14 plan to close the sheltered workshops. 15 So what do you do with that individual, that 16 group of individuals, that cannot transition into a 17 more competitive type of employment, and doesn't 18 have a sheltered workshop to go to? 19 What does that person do? 20 What does that family do? 21 KEVIN PENBERTHY: So I would say that the 22 game plan would be to work with that individual, 23 with his or her circle of support, with his or her 24 service team, to develop what, for every individual, 25 is the best plan, and it would likely include a 1 variety of supports. 2 It may include additional community 3 habilitation. 4 It may include additional recreation and 5 leisure opportunities. 6 It may include additional volunteer 7 opportunities. 8 It will include all of those things that the 9 individual would choose to do in the most integrated 10 setting appropriate for that person. 11 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Okay. So let's take 12 this example: 13 Let's say you have a person that wants to 14 work. That's what they want to do. 15 They don't want to volunteer, they don't want 16 to recreate, they don't want to sit home, but, 17 they're not suited for working in the competitive 18 environment. 19 What do you do with the person that takes a 20 great deal of pride in what they're doing right now: 21 they're working? 22 You know, they're working in a sheltered 23 workshop. They take a great amount of satisfaction 24 in what they are doing, and they don't want to do 25 some of those other things that you referenced. 1 So what do you do with that person that wants 2 to work, and enjoys working? 3 KEVIN PENBERTHY: So I would take this 4 opportunity to say that OPWDD is not doing this 5 alone. 6 That, our workshop providers are looking very 7 diligently at ways that they can continue to provide 8 employment opportunities to individuals with 9 developmental disabilities, in integrated settings, 10 that will allow them to continue to do just that. 11 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Okay. So you're 12 putting it upon the sheltered workshops then to then 13 change their model, to bring competitiveness into 14 their workplace, so to speak? 15 KEVIN PENBERTHY: I would say that we are 16 working closely and aligning with our service 17 providers, and identifying opportunities. 18 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Okay. And how's that 19 been going so far? 20 KEVIN PENBERTHY: Well, I think that, 21 actually, we have some good examples. 22 We have a number of agencies, including some 23 agencies that may testify today, that are, in fact, 24 moving forward with integrated business models. 25 So we're not there yet by any means. 1 But I would say that our providers, in most 2 part, if not to an agency, are extremely committed 3 to finding ways in order to support individuals. 4 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Okay. So you think 5 under the current scenario, that for the person that 6 wants to work and takes pride in working, that they 7 will not be forced to, quote/unquote, retire, 8 recreate, do other things that they really are not 9 interested in, but they'll have a place where they 10 can continue to work, and be able to function in 11 that type of work environment? 12 KEVIN PENBERTHY: That is certainly our goal. 13 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: And do you think it's 14 one that's achievable? 15 KEVIN PENBERTHY: I do. 16 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Okay. 17 Okay. Thanks very much. 18 KEVIN PENBERTHY: Thank you. 19 SENATOR ORTT: Thanks you, Kevin. 20 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thanks Kevin. 21 SENATOR ORTT: Okay. Next up is 22 Michael Seereiter, president and CEO of the New York 23 State Rehabilitation Association. 24 Michael, thank you. 25 MICHAEL SEEREITER: Thank you. 1 Also, out of no disrespect, my best 2 opportunity to keep you to 10 minutes is probably to 3 read a good chunk of my testimony. 4 Thank you for the opportunity to participate 5 in this event. 6 As an organization, the New York State 7 Rehabilitation Association, which represents 8 85 providers of services to individuals with 9 disabilities throughout New York State, with a long 10 and strong history of advocacy around public 11 policies that provide opportunities for meaningful 12 work for people with disabilities, NYSRA is very 13 pleased to participate in this event. 14 Sheltered workshops were originally created 15 by individuals with disabilities, advocates, and 16 family members, and organizations that support 17 people with disabilities, because of the barriers to 18 competitive employment people with significant 19 disabilities faced decades ago. 20 Those barriers included realities associated 21 with the viable business enterprises and the lack of 22 social acceptance of people with disabilities in our 23 society. 24 While our societal idealism has shifted in 25 more recent years to promote inclusive and 1 competitive employment for people with disabilities, 2 precious little has been done to overcome those 3 barriers previously mentioned, which largely remain 4 in the way of this vision today. 5 As a result, we have experienced little more 6 than a statistical margin of error in the 7 competitive, integrated employment rate for people 8 with disabilities, despite decades of work. 9 NYSRA urges policymakers, primum non nocere; 10 or, first, do no harm, as we take steps to increase 11 the competitive, integrated, and inclusive 12 employment opportunities available for people with 13 disabilities, a direction that NYSRA very much 14 embraces. 15 We must not eliminate existing employment 16 opportunities that may not meet our ultimate vision 17 before such opportunities materialize. 18 It should be expected that the deplorable 19 rates of competitive, integrated employment for 20 people with disabilities will worsen if, 21 quote/unquote, closing work centers and sheltered 22 workshops takes place before significant advances on 23 the competitive, integrated, and inclusive 24 employment front have been achieved. 25 As NYSRA is learning from our Balancing 1 Incentives Program (BIP) -funded transformation 2 project, in which we are supporting 12 agencies 3 currently providing -- currently operating work 4 centers to develop an alternative business plan by 5 which to support the employment goals for 6 individuals with disabilities, this is a long and a 7 difficult process, so much so, that it appears 8 highly unrealistic to think that all work centers 9 will successfully transition to new business models 10 before sheltered-workshop funding ceases in 2020. 11 In making this transformation, not only must 12 providers contend with a challenging business 13 environment in which 50 percent of all businesses 14 fail, but they must also ensure compliance with a 15 new set of rules that have yet to be fully 16 finalized, intended to permit Medicaid waivers -- 17 funds to continue to support individuals with 18 disabilities. 19 That said, we do expect some valuable lessons 20 to come from this project, and at this halfway point 21 in the project, we can already see some lessons 22 emerging. 23 Number one: A comprehensive assessment of 24 providers and their ability to transform is a 25 crucial first step, without which, failure to 1 successfully transform is highly probable. 2 Number two: The expertise and experience to 3 create and operate a business is not commonly found 4 among the skill sets of people who work for 5 providers of work-center supports. That means, 6 providers need business development and operational 7 resources. 8 Number three: Willingness to change the 9 culture within provider agencies, both among 10 leadership and staff, and individuals with 11 disabilities working in a work center, is among the 12 most significant barriers. 13 In large part, this is directly attributable 14 to the lack of a viable alternative model 15 demonstrated to work previously. 16 We must remember that the monetary value 17 associated with a paycheck is far outweighed by the 18 intangible sense of self-worth, self-confidence, and 19 sense of belonging to a community that comes from 20 working with like-minded people towards something 21 larger than one's individual contributions. 22 Therefore, as a state, and as a nation, we 23 should do nothing that threatens that opportunity 24 for people with disabilities while we try to create 25 new, more integrated and competitive employment 1 opportunities. 2 At the same time, we must be aware that for 3 those individuals with disabilities who are trying 4 our new integrated and competitive employment 5 opportunities we are developing, there remains a 6 significant threat of social isolation if our 7 communities do not readily welcome them as employees 8 into our schools, our stores, et cetera. 9 In any such cases, those individuals should 10 be allowed to make their own decisions about whether 11 the pros of competitive, integrated employment 12 outweigh the cons of social isolation that may 13 likely -- they may likely encounter. 14 As NYSRA testified to the New York State 15 Employment First Commission earlier this year, 16 concerning the development and implementation of the 17 state's Employment First plan, successful systems 18 change requires not letting the perfect be the enemy 19 of the good. 20 Given the decades of work that have resulted 21 in no statistically significant improvement in the 22 competitive, integrated rate for people -- rate of 23 employment for people with disabilities, it should 24 be obvious that any progress toward the goal of 25 competitive, integrated employment for all 1 individuals with disabilities will only be -- will 2 only be achieved through increments. 3 Iterative steps toward a goal often involve 4 the development and utilization of tools, resources, 5 and models that do not fully comport with the 6 ultimate goal; but, nonetheless, get us closer to 7 that goal. 8 Some progress is better than no progress at 9 all; and, therefore, while many advocates may oppose 10 the United States Department of Labor 14(c) 11 authorization, which permits businesses and 12 sheltered workshops with the certification to pay 13 employees with disabilities a wage commensurate with 14 their productivity, if this authority can be 15 demonstrated as a means by which to get individuals 16 with disabilities working in the community, where 17 businesses can see firsthand the value, talent, and 18 abilities they do possess, then we must not discard 19 that opportunity if successful systems change is 20 actually the goal. 21 NYSRA's white paper from 2014, "Getting the 22 Job Done," outlined a number of recommendations for 23 how government can successfully promote the type of 24 culture change and systems change articulated. 25 We have attached a copy of that report for 1 your review, as we believe it still contains many 2 valuable opportunities yet to be fully acted upon. 3 I'll just take one moment to note from the 4 actual report itself. 5 Senator Ranzenhofer, I think, was on to 6 something, with his comment about Medicaid funding 7 versus state funding. 8 And, it's important to realize, I think, part 9 of the history here, that New York State in 10 particular has, when it comes to the 11 "Medicaidization," or "Medicaiding," using it as a 12 verb, of supports and services. 13 That is a long and strong history for 14 New York State, and we continue to do that. 15 But, we also, I think, need to recognize that 16 that doesn't necessarily fall nicely, I guess, with 17 the goals of employment. 18 In our report, we actually talk about the 19 fact that, perhaps it's time to stop trying to force 20 the round peg of supporting people with disabilities 21 to attain and retain employment solely into the 22 square hole of Medicaid funding. 23 That's a concept, I think, that, you know, 24 the medical model here, that Medicaid is an 25 insurance program, that is primarily providing 1 supports and services in communities and in hospital 2 settings and a variety of other types of things, is 3 a very difficult fit with the goals of employment. 4 And maybe it's time for us to reconsider some 5 of those decisions. 6 In fact, just one more aspect of that, we've 7 seen, actually, over a number of years, 8 New York State has actually cut the funding 9 available specifically for the state funding for 10 sheltered workshops. 11 We're now down, I think, lower than 12 $30 million, total, for supports that -- for 13 state-funded supports for sheltered workshops at 14 this point. And it's kind of in the opposite 15 direction of where we may want to go, if we were 16 looking for more flexible types of funding that 17 don't come with the strings attached that the 18 federal dollars do to the Medicaid dollars. 19 I'll stop there, and take any questions that 20 you may have. 21 SENATOR ORTT: Well, thank you for your 22 testimony. 23 Have you had conversations with OPWDD 24 about -- 25 MICHAEL SEEREITER: Every week. 1 Every week. 2 Multiple times a week. 3 SENATOR ORTT: And in your opinion, I guess 4 I would ask, how that is going? 5 And, if you could comment on the 6 2020 timeline, in your opinion, if that's a workable 7 number, or not? 8 MICHAEL SEEREITER: I think it's an evolving 9 process here. 10 And I think that the -- there's an awful lot 11 of credit due to people who are speaking up and 12 articulating concerns, that that has moved. I mean, 13 we've seen some evolution of that policy. 14 We've even seen, I think, some suggestions at 15 the state level, that maybe the 2020 date is not 16 necessarily a realistic one. 17 For example, we've gotten the 12 agencies 18 I mentioned in our demonstration project under BIP 19 funding. That's 12 of 83 throughout New York State. 20 We're providing close to a million dollars 21 worth of technical assistance to those 22 organizations, to try to figure out how they can 23 create a business model that will be more integrated 24 and will meet those needs. 25 That means we have a heck of a lot of other 1 agencies to go through the same exercise, to bring 2 that level of technical assistance. 3 I think it's a longer trajectory. 4 And, frankly, what we're talking about here 5 is culture change. That takes place over decades. 6 SENATOR ORTT: How long have those -- those 7 12 agencies, how long have they been going through 8 this -- 9 MICHAEL SEEREITER: Six months. 10 SENATOR ORTT: -- the ultimate business 11 model? 12 MICHAEL SEEREITER: Six months. 13 SENATOR ORTT: Six months. 14 MICHAEL SEEREITER: It's a planning stage. 15 It is simply a planning process. 16 One of our member agencies, 17 Lifetime Assistance, is actually here, and going 18 through that process itself. 19 That's a grueling process, and it's really 20 difficult to figure out that business model that's 21 going to work in that more integrated environment, 22 given what we know about the productivity levels, 23 and, how do we make that work, from a business 24 perspective, make it viable, and so that it's not a 25 business that, literally, falls on its face, 1 two months, three months, four months, or the year 2 after getting up and operational? 3 SENATOR ORTT: You may have addressed -- you 4 sort of touched on it in your testimony, but, you 5 know, what's in your -- from your position, what 6 supports and services would be needed, additional 7 supports and services, to assist these individuals 8 during -- with this transformation or during this 9 transformation? 10 MICHAEL SEEREITER: Individuals themselves, 11 or providers? 12 SENATOR ORTT: I would say, why don't we 13 start with providers, and then maybe 14 (unintelligible) individuals as well. 15 MICHAEL SEEREITER: I think we're entering 16 into an area where, as I mentioned in the testimony, 17 I think it's not commonly found within the skill set 18 of folks who are currently operating work centers. 19 The level of business acumen necessary to be 20 able to really take it to that next level for a -- 21 making that a competitive business. 22 In fact, I think that that's a formidable 23 challenge for anyone. 24 So bringing any of those resources to their 25 availability, you know, making them available to 1 these providers, I think is a -- is a key first 2 step. 3 It's a -- well, it's a -- making the 4 resources available is actually a secondary step to 5 that assessment of: Where do you want to go? What 6 is the type of business you want to create? 7 Let's talk about the viability of that. 8 Most of -- the vast majority of the 9 organizations that we're talking about, who operate 10 a work center right now, are not-for-profit 11 organizations. 12 They're being asked to run a business, and, 13 that's a different skill set. 14 And, does that fall within the -- the 15 not-for-profit incorporation status for that 16 organization, or should it fall outside of that? 17 What are the limitations? 18 What are the benefits of that? 19 We need to explore all of those questions 20 because, I think if we don't do that in earnest, 21 I think we actually threaten the very viability of 22 those providers to continue to support individuals, 23 whatever their needs may be, whether they're 24 employment or otherwise. 25 SENATOR ORTT: And the recent, I guess, 1 decision, or verdict, by the wage board to increase 2 the minimum wage in 2021; ultimately, the scale, 3 what impact does that, in your mind, have on the 4 issue we're talking about today? 5 Does that help or, you know, have a positive 6 impact, from your view, on potential competitive 7 employment, or does it actually have an inverse or 8 negative impact? 9 MICHAEL SEEREITER: I have admittedly given 10 this less thought from the impact on individual 11 wages for individuals with disabilities who are 12 working. 13 We have looked at this more from a systems 14 perspective for the supports and services that are 15 provided to individuals with disabilities, to assist 16 them to work, to gain the vocational skills. 17 That poses something beyond a significant 18 threat to the entire field, not just of people with 19 developmental disabilities, the services to people 20 with developmental disabilities, but far beyond 21 that. We're into the mental-health realm. We're 22 into everything in the not-for-profit sector. 23 You need to realize that organizations that 24 we're talking about are 90 percent-plus funded 25 through public funds. 1 And that if there is a -- an interest in 2 raising a minimum wage, that the State of New York 3 and the localities, and, frankly, probably also the 4 federal government, have a responsibility to pay 5 contracts, and to pay rates, that allow their 6 contracted entities to be able to pay such a minimum 7 wage. 8 The impact on individuals with disabilities, 9 I have admittedly given less thought to. 10 I think it probably poses similar -- a 11 similar type of threat, although in a different way, 12 where we will probably have more difficulty finding 13 competitive, integrated jobs at $15 per hour for 14 individuals with significant disabilities. 15 I think that that's -- that is not -- I think 16 that's not out of the realm of possibility. 17 But, again, this is something we've more 18 looked at from a provider perspective -- 19 SENATOR ORTT: Sure. 20 MICHAEL SEEREITER: -- and the provision of 21 the support that individuals need be successful on 22 the job. 23 SENATOR ORTT: Thank you, Michael. 24 MICHAEL SEEREITER: You're welcome. 25 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Thank you for being 1 here today and testifying. 2 And I wanted to pick up on the point that you 3 had picked up on my point, dealing with the Medicaid 4 funding and State funding. 5 I mean, in your opinion, I mean, are there 6 significant programs that are State-only funded, 7 that, if the State chose, they could decide to keep 8 the workshops open, that they're not bound by -- you 9 know, by what the federal government is doing? 10 Because, as you mentioned, I mean, Medicaid 11 is an insurance program for health insurance and for 12 nursing-home care, as opposed to employment issues, 13 which is what we're talking about today. 14 So, can the State do that, in your judgment? 15 MICHAEL SEEREITER: I think so. 16 I'm going back through our report from, 17 roughly, a year ago, and what we talked about this. 18 I might even read a little bit from that. 19 We talked about OPWDD's employment-transition 20 plan, building on a long history of New York 21 State -- in New York State, that seems, at times, 22 singly-minded focused on this issue of Medicaid; 23 "Medicaidization," if you will. 24 Yet, it's important to remember how 25 employment supports for people with disabilities 1 were originally developed, through the rejection of 2 the institutional medical model. 3 And, instead, we've seen where the state and 4 the federal governments have developed further 5 funding mechanisms that were better suited to the 6 task. 7 And, nonetheless, we see where New York State 8 has continued to Medicaid those supports. 9 We see that in the world, a program called 10 "Long-Term Sheltered Employment," and State aid. 11 Those were the programs that were indeed cut. 12 And what we were talking about, when the cuts 13 were originally proposed a year -- well, when 14 I first got here, let's put that it way, two years 15 ago, we were talking about this issue. 16 And these are highly flexible funds. 17 And if there's indeed a desire to see a 18 significant transition from the existing model to 19 something different, these are funds that could be 20 used to help make that transition possible, to 21 invest in some unique ways into -- to build a 22 business that actually could survive in the -- in 23 this very challenged environment. 24 I think, yes, indeed, that's the Long-Term 25 Sheltered Employment Program, and State aid, which 1 are directly state funds, which are the ones that -- 2 the programs that have also sustained those cuts 3 over the past several years. 4 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Okay. 5 Now, the -- you had mentioned, in terms of 6 the percentages, of people with disabilities in 7 competitive settings right now. 8 I mean, where are we at right now? 9 What percentage of the disabled population is 10 working in a competitive setting? 11 MICHAEL SEEREITER: Depends on the population 12 we're talking about. 13 It runs -- I think it the gamut, from 14 something between -- you know, it's 15 disability-specific. But I think it runs from 16 something, like, 11 percent to 40 percent or 17 50 percent, depending on the particular disability. 18 But my recollection of this is something in 19 the neighborhood of 30 percent, if I'm not 20 mistaken -- 21 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Okay. 22 MICHAEL SEEREITER: -- across the board, all 23 averaged. 24 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Okay. Well, thank you. 25 And, again, you know, I'll ask you the same 1 question that I asked the deputy director. 2 You had talked about, you know, I mean, where 3 do we go? 4 Where do we go for that individual that wants 5 to work, you know, as we're going through this 6 process of no longer having sheltered workshops? 7 They don't want to be retired. They don't 8 want to do more recreation. They don't want more 9 socialization. 10 They want to work. 11 And as you indicated, you take a great deal 12 of pride in working. 13 And in conjunction with that, you talked 14 about, you know, these are -- you know, these are 15 not businesses. These are not-for-profits. 16 I mean, where -- where are we, five years 17 down -- five years down the road, for these folks 18 that want to work? 19 Where do you see that percentage getting to? 20 Right now, you indicated between 11 percent 21 and 40 percent, depending on degree of disability, 22 with maybe like a 30 percent overall average. 23 So where are we five years down the road, 24 what's that percentage? 25 And, for those that don't fall in that 1 percentage, where are those folks? 2 MICHAEL SEEREITER: I -- I don't -- I'm not 3 highly optimistic that we're going to bend this 4 curve significantly without a very drastic change in 5 our approach, a much more holistic one, that goes 6 far beyond this sheltered-workshop issue. 7 This is a much more pervasive issue from a 8 cultural perspective in our society, I think, and it 9 require's a much more comprehensive approach; one 10 that infuses people with disabilities into the 11 public-policy goals associated with this state. 12 So, for example, regional economic 13 development councils, if we want to see a 14 significant increase, uptick, in the population of 15 people with disabilities who are working, perhaps 16 that's a mechanism by which we can incentivize 17 people who are participating in the 18 economic-development efforts taking place here in 19 Buffalo, and elsewhere, to employ people with 20 disabilities, and find people with disabilities who 21 they can employ, who have those skill sets. 22 But, absent this much more comprehensive 23 approach, I'm not sure we can -- I'm not sure we do 24 any better than we've done over the past 50 years, 25 which is pretty deplorable. 1 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Okay. So you're 2 suggesting, like, right now, the state has policies 3 for women-owned businesses, minority businesses? 4 MICHAEL SEEREITER: Right. 5 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: If you're doing work 6 with the State, you have to have a certain 7 percentage of women, certain percentage of 8 minorities. 9 Are you suggesting more of an employment 10 model, that when the State is giving money for these 11 type of projects, that we would have that type of 12 approach for people with disabilities? 13 In other words, mandate on a project, that a 14 certain percentage of people have to fit into the 15 "disability" category? 16 MICHAEL SEEREITER: That is one approach. 17 I believe Senator Ortt actually has 18 legislation specifically around this issue, looking 19 at that as a possible mechanism. 20 It is but one arrow in a quiver that needs to 21 be a very diverse quiver of arrows. 22 That's one approach, and one that should be 23 considered, and maybe tried, yes. 24 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Okay. You know, I have 25 dozens of questions, which I know we've got a ton of 1 people, so I'm going to stop now. 2 I appreciate you coming here today -- 3 MICHAEL SEEREITER: You're welcome. 4 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: -- and participating in 5 the forum. 6 MICHAEL SEEREITER: My pleasure. 7 SENATOR ORTT: Michael, thank you very much. 8 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you. 9 MICHAEL SEEREITER: Thank you. 10 SENATOR ORTT: Next up is Lindsay Miller, 11 executive director, from the New York State 12 Association on Independent Living. 13 LINDSAY MILLER: Hello. 14 Thank you, Senators, for the opportunity to 15 testify. 16 My name is Lindsay Miller. I'm the executive 17 director of the New York Association on Independent 18 Living. 19 We are the statewide association for 20 independent living centers, which are 21 community-based not-for-profits run by and for 22 people with disabilities, provide advocacy services 23 and supports, all predicated on the IL philosophy 24 that individuals, with the right services and 25 supports, can live and participate in the community. 1 NYAIL applauds New York State for their 2 commitment to phase out sheltered workshops. Not 3 only is it a huge step toward equality for people 4 with disabilities, but it is the law. Federal law 5 mandates integration for people with disabilities. 6 The Supreme Court's 1999 Olmstead decision 7 held that people with disabilities have the right to 8 live and receive services in the most integrated 9 setting. 10 This is, in large part, why CMS required 11 New York to phase out its sheltered workshops by 12 2020. And sheltered workshops also violate the new 13 home- and community-based settings rule, and would 14 no longer be eligible for Medicaid funding. 15 As was mentioned by our previous speakers, 16 the Governor also recently issued Executive Order 17 Number 136, to create an Employment First policy, 18 and, subsequently, released its report, with 19 recommendations. 20 And this initiative recognizes that 21 competitive, integrated employment is a component of 22 community inclusion and improved quality of life for 23 individuals with disabilities, and demonstrates a 24 continued commitment to implementing Olmstead. 25 So it's no longer a question of, if we should 1 close sheltered workshops, but how to do it most 2 responsibly, taking the necessary steps to ensure 3 that even people with the most severe disabilities 4 have the opportunity to seek employment in an 5 integrated setting with the appropriate services and 6 supports in place. 7 For too long, people with disabilities have 8 been segregated from the rest of society, shut away 9 in institutions and sheltered workshops. 10 At these workshops, agencies have been 11 permitted to pay individuals with disabilities well 12 under minimum wage, under Section 14(c) of the 13 Fair Labor Standards Act. 14 However, we have to keep in mind that 14(c) 15 was created in 1938 when the minimum wage was 16 25 cent an hour. 17 Today, minimum wage is 8.75 an hour in 18 New York; and, yet, we still have an employment 19 model for people with disabilities where they are 20 paid sometimes pennies an hour. 21 So while still legally acceptable, and there 22 are efforts underway at the federal level to repeal 23 14(c), there is no moral justification for paying 24 any individual significantly less, based solely on 25 their disability. 1 We've also developed many successful 2 employment models in the decades since 14(c) was 3 enacted. 4 It's time New York updates its employment 5 model away from sheltered workshops, to an 6 Employment First model. 7 The majority of sheltered workshops are 8 segregated, focused on production-style work, and 9 fail to provide adequate training or employment to 10 individuals with disabilities, and do not result in 11 competitive, integrated employment. 12 Many people with disabilities are not suited 13 for production work, and it's time we stop equating 14 people with disabilities with this form of 15 employment. 16 My testimony goes on to provide an example of 17 an individual who, based on his disability, was told 18 that sheltered work was his only option, and, went 19 on to receive a master's in social work, and is now 20 the program director at one of our member 21 independent living centers. 22 And while we acknowledge that not everyone 23 currently in a sheltered workshop is another 24 Mr. Smith, this example highlights how many people 25 have been inappropriately warehoused in these 1 segregated settings, when they are capable of so 2 much more. 3 And I'm sure, you know -- I have tons of 4 examples like Mr. Smith. 5 It's also an extremely expensive program for 6 the state to maintain. 7 In 2008, the last time we had the statistics 8 available, OPWDD was paying an average of 21,000 per 9 person, per year, for people in segregated programs, 10 and only, approximately, 5,000 per person, per year, 11 in supported employment. 12 It's time we shift the funding from the 13 segregated model, to providing individuals with 14 proper supports, to assist them in achieving 15 competitive, integrated employment. 16 Supported and other integrated employment 17 programs save substantial costs to the state, and 18 ensure that people are disabilities are served in 19 the most integrated setting. 20 We understand that there are strong concerns 21 that people who are currently in sheltered workshops 22 will be unable to achieve employment outside of this 23 setting; however, if New York State ensures that 24 appropriate supports and services are available, 25 many people will thrive. 1 One of the questions asked earlier was about 2 state models. 3 And one of the ones that we looked to 4 frequently is Vermont. 5 Vermont, using a phased approach, stopped 6 funding sheltered workshops completely by 2005. 7 We had Brian Dague, a professor at the 8 University of Vermont, speak at our statewide 9 conference in 2010 about their process. 10 And he found that -- and he has significant 11 research available on the process that I would be 12 happy to get to you. 13 But he found that, while it was a difficult 14 transition for both the individuals and their 15 parents, they both were much happier once integrated 16 employment at or above minimum wage was achieved. 17 And one of my favorite quotes that he always 18 uses in his presentation, is one of the parents 19 saying, "It's the best fight I ever lost." 20 So while transitions will always be 21 difficult, it is clear that other states have found 22 a way to transition people into competitive, 23 integrated employment successfully. 24 New Yorkers seeking supported employment can 25 achieve similar successes as their counterparts in 1 Vermont, but it requires a strong commitment from 2 New York State. 3 In addition to implementing the 4 recommendations put fourth by the Employment First 5 Commission, there are a few other things the State 6 can do. 7 First: OPWDD needs to allow for a longer 8 discovery period for people seeking employment. 9 It will take time to determine people's 10 abilities and talents; however, this process is an 11 essential first step in assisting people with 12 disabilities to get real jobs at real pay. 13 In addition, the State needs to ensure that 14 there's available transportation. 15 This will be an issue throughout the state, 16 but particularly in rural areas where they don't 17 have a public-transportation infrastructure. 18 And without addressing transportation, there 19 are areas where people will not be able to achieve 20 employment on this basis alone. 21 NYAIL recognizes that not every individual 22 currently working in a sheltered workshop will 23 achieve their employment goals, for a variety of 24 reasons, and OPWDD needs to ensure that alternatives 25 exist for those individuals so that they are not 1 simply sent to day habilitation. 2 One-on-one community habilitation, which 3 I believe the gentleman from OPWDD referenced, 4 teaches individuals independent living skills in the 5 community, and it needs to be expanded to ensure 6 it's available in all counties. 7 Many individuals use community day hab and 8 volunteer work. 9 I remember a center in Binghamton runs one of 10 the only one-on-one community habilitation programs, 11 where they take individuals into the community to 12 teach them one-on-one independent living skills. 13 And several of the individuals use that 14 program as volunteer -- in their volunteer 15 placements in the community. 16 So, there's one individual, for example, who 17 is volunteering at the local animal shelter. 18 Not only do these not-for-profit 19 organizations depend on volunteers, but, the 20 volunteer org provides these individuals with the 21 rewarding way to contribute to their community while 22 doing something they really enjoy. 23 And it also can eventually lead to employment 24 for these individuals, which sheltered workshops 25 certainly will not. 1 Any model New York adopts as an 2 Employment First state must not continue to use 3 14(c) special-wage certificates. 4 NYAIL is aware that some of the current 5 operators of sheltered workshops are considering 6 whether these models can be integrated with 7 non-disabled employees. 8 We're extremely concerned that this is a way 9 to maintain people with disabilities in production 10 work at sub-minimum wage jobs, and this is not the 11 answer. 12 OPWDD needs to focus on ensuring that 13 appropriate supports and services are in place to 14 assist these individuals to achieve real employment. 15 The State is currently in the process of 16 implementing the recommendations from the 17 Employment First Commission's report. 18 These policies, along with the commitment 19 from OPWDD, to ensure that extended supports and 20 services are available to individuals, prior to 21 employment, and during vocational placement, will go 22 a long way to assisting individuals with 23 disabilities to achieve competitive and integrated 24 employment. 25 Segregating people with disabilities and 1 allowing them to pay sub-minimum wages should no 2 longer be continued in New York State. 3 Thank you for the opportunity to provide 4 testimony. 5 I'm happy to answer any questions. 6 I did read most of it, but I talk really 7 fast, so... 8 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: It was very good. 9 SENATOR GALLIVAN: That's good. 10 SENATOR ORTT: Linda, you used the term 11 "integration" significantly through your talk. 12 And to piggyback off of one of my colleague's 13 other questions, I guess, what to you is 14 "integrated"? What's an "integrated work setting," 15 from your perspective? 16 LINDSAY MILLER: Well, there's people with 17 disabilities and non-disabilities working alongside 18 each other. 19 I mean, there's no majority of people with 20 disabilities in the same -- you know, in the 21 integrated setting -- in the setting. 22 And I know -- you know, I reference one of 23 the -- in Delaware County, one of the workshops 24 I know is trying to just put some of the 25 non-disabled people or work managers alongside the 1 people with disabilities that were doing the 2 production work. And, you know, they were taking, 3 I think, two non-disabled people and trying to put 4 them alongside, so, and that wouldn't be an 5 integrated setting. It would be where there would 6 be a majority of both people, with disabilities and 7 non-disabilities. 8 SENATOR ORTT: And I guess my follow-up 9 question then would be: Would -- so the folks who 10 are eligible to operate, or have the opportunity, in 11 such an environment, that's fine. 12 But what about -- what would happen to the 13 folks who do not have that opportunity to be in an 14 integrated setting, as you defined it? 15 LINDSAY MILLER: What do you mean? For what 16 reason? 17 SENATOR ORTT: So right now you have folks in 18 a sheltered workshop who may not have the 19 opportunity to work in that kind of an integrated 20 setting, as you defined it. 21 LINDSAY MILLER: But why don't they have the 22 opportunity? 23 SENATOR ORTT: Maybe there's not a company in 24 their neighborhood that's willing to hire. 25 LINDSAY MILLER: Oh, I understand what you're 1 saying. 2 SENATOR ORTT: That's a very realistic 3 possibility, wouldn't you say? 4 LINDSAY MILLER: Right, right, absolutely. 5 I mean, that's why I think we speak to the 6 fact that there needs to be, first of all, services 7 and supports available to the individuals that, you 8 know, perhaps -- and I think Mike spoke to, 9 certainly, a culture change, you know, in the 10 general population. And I think that's specific 11 to -- you know, that speaks to the large employment 12 disparities for people with disabilities, generally. 13 But, certainly, also, that there needs to be 14 alternatives other than, you know, day habilitation. 15 We know that that's not the answer. It can't 16 be that. If most people can't go to sheltered 17 workshops, then they're going to go, you know, sit 18 in day habilitation every day. 19 SENATOR ORTT: A culture change; would you 20 say a culture change would probably take longer than 21 2020? 22 LINDSAY MILLER: Certainly. 23 I mean, right, it's 25 years since the ADA, 24 and there's still a huge employment disparity 25 between people with disabilities and non-disabled. 1 So -- 2 SENATOR ORTT: Okay. 3 And then just -- 4 LINDSAY MILLER: But I think that a lot can 5 be done, with New York State leading the charge, 6 that, you know, can get us -- can -- 7 SENATOR ORTT: Sure. 8 LINDSAY MILLER: -- we can make significant 9 progress. 10 SENATOR ORTT: Do you know, and I don't know, 11 do you know what the average wage paid at a 12 sheltered workshop is? 13 LINDSAY MILLER: I don't know what the 14 average wage is. 15 I know that, you know, you can do a FOIL 16 request for all of that, for any companies that have 17 a 14(c) certificate. 18 We actually just -- we had our statewide 19 conference a few weeks ago, and one of our 20 presentations was on the closing out of -- or, 21 eliminating sub-minimum wage. 22 In one of the FOIL that they showed, I mean, 23 it, literally, went from zero dollars an hour to, 24 I think, the highest was $4 an hour. 25 And, you know, that wasn't a New York 1 company -- I don't think it was a New York 2 organization. But -- I mean -- so I don't know what 3 the average is, but, often pennies. 4 SENATOR ORTT: Okay. 5 That's all I have. 6 Do you have any questions? 7 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: I have a couple. 8 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Go right ahead. 9 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Okay. 10 Lindsay, thank you. 11 And thank you for reading fast. 12 [Laughter.] 13 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: I could still 14 understand everything that you said. 15 So the question is, and I've had the same 16 question for a number of the speakers, is, 17 obviously, integration is an ideal that you would 18 like to achieve. 19 But what do you do for the person -- and you 20 had said, actually, that, you know, day hab doesn't 21 work, and volunteering may not be for everybody, and 22 someone may not want, you know, services and 23 support. 24 They may want to work. 25 So for a person that is disabled, and, is not 1 able to integrate, what does that person do, if they 2 want to work, and there is no opportunity for them 3 to do that? 4 LINDSAY MILLER: I mean, I -- you mean in the 5 community, because there's not -- 6 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Yes, because they're 7 not able to work outside of that type of sheltered 8 setting. 9 LINDSAY MILLER: I guess I'm not -- so -- 10 I mean, I think the important thing throughout this 11 process, is that it should never be the assumption 12 with anyone that they can't work outside that 13 sheltered setting. 14 That everyone should go through an 15 exploratory phase. There should be services and 16 supports available to every individual so that they 17 do -- that should never be the first assumption. 18 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: I understand that, and 19 that that's not what I'm saying. 20 That's the last resort. Okay? 21 But these are the -- this is a person that is 22 just not able to do it. 23 And this is not my assessment. This is from 24 a family telling me that they are, whatever, their 25 child, their brother, is not able to function in a 1 competitive work setting. And, you know, they don't 2 want to volunteer, and they don't want to do, you 3 know, day rehabilitation. 4 I mean, what do you do for that individual, 5 or for that segment of the disabled population? 6 LINDSAY MILLER: You know, I guess there's 7 always going to be those cases, and I don't -- 8 I don't have the answer to the question. 9 I mean, I think the gentleman from OPWDD 10 talked about having a blended mix of services 11 available to individuals that, you know, perhaps, 12 it's a little bit of everything that you've 13 referenced. 14 But I don't -- 15 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Okay. What if they 16 don't want all the services, they want to work? 17 They like working, and now they can't. 18 LINDSAY MILLER: But -- I guess I'm still not 19 clear on the question. 20 You're saying they can't. But because they 21 can't -- because they can't compete in a -- 22 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Because of their 23 disability. 24 Everybody is not a Mr. Smith, as you 25 referenced, who went on to get a master's, and is 1 now -- 2 LINDSAY MILLER: Right, but perhaps, with the 3 right services for that individual, they can work in 4 a competitive environment. 5 It doesn't -- when we say "competitive," we 6 mean, you know, they can work in the general public. 7 They don't need to be on a production line, having 8 to keep up with production work. 9 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Right. 10 LINDSAY MILLER: So with the right services 11 and supports, you know, an individual that really 12 wants to work, regardless of their disability, you 13 know, there should be an exploratory phase, and that 14 individual could -- 15 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: So is it your position 16 that every person that is disabled, at the end of 17 whatever services are provided, will be able to work 18 in a competitive setting? 19 I mean, we know that's the ideal, but 20 families are telling us, you know, yes, that's the 21 panacea -- 22 LINDSAY MILLER: Right. 23 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: -- but that's not 24 reality. 25 LINDSAY MILLER: No. 1 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: That their loved one 2 can't. 3 So, you're taking the assumption that, after 4 all of these services, they're able to. 5 What for those -- what about those that 6 can't? 7 LINDSAY MILLER: That can't. 8 You know, I think that that's something that 9 we, as, you know, stakeholders and the State, need 10 to work together. 11 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: And what happens if 12 that ends up being, say, 25 percent of the 13 population? 14 I mean, if it's a large number of people? 15 I'm not talking about, you know, a person 16 here or a person there. 17 What happens then? 18 LINDSAY MILLER: Right. 19 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Just food for thought. 20 The second question that I have is, because 21 I've, you know, talked to folks at 22 Lifetime Assistance, and other places, and, you 23 know, they tell me that they -- you know, they 24 actually go out and try to convince employers to 25 bring work to them, because they really don't want 1 to. And in exchange, they're paying less than 2 minimum wage. 3 So what if employers decide, okay, you know, 4 they don't want to participate in this program 5 anymore? 6 Then what happens, you know, at least let's 7 say, in the next five years, to these people that 8 are able to do certain type of employment, because, 9 you know, employers are being convinced? 10 I mean, I don't get the sense that there's a 11 long lineup of employers that want to give work to, 12 say, Goodwill Industries, or Lifetime Assistance. 13 That the people that work at these agencies 14 really have to go out and beat the bushes, to get 15 them, and to convince them, that they should do 16 this. 17 So, what happens if we take that model, okay, 18 you know, they're not going to pay the reduced wage, 19 and they just say, Okay, forget the program. Forget 20 about Goodwill. Forget about Lifetime Assistance. 21 We'll just go out and hire folks, and that will be 22 the end of it. 23 What happens then? 24 LINDSAY MILLER: You know, I don't know. 25 I mean, that's something that I think, 1 together -- again, as a community and the State, we 2 need to work together to ensure that that does not 3 happen. 4 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Okay. Just food for 5 thought. 6 LINDSAY MILLER: No, I appreciate it. 7 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Thank you, Lindsay. 8 SENATOR GALLIVAN: I think 9 Senator Ranzenhofer is -- he explored an area that 10 I wanted to, but it's so important, that I want to 11 address the same point again. 12 OPWDD had estimated that 50 percent of 13 individuals and families would not be interested in 14 transitioning from their sheltered workshop to 15 competitive employment. 16 The example that you had given, or when you 17 made reference to Vermont as the -- as a best 18 practice, and I'm really jumping to this, and maybe 19 I'm missing something on it, but, according to the 20 research, in your testimony: 21 74 percent of the individuals preferred 22 community employment. 23 67 percent of the families preferred 24 community employment as well. 25 So, I'll just take the most favorable number, 1 to the position of eliminating sheltered workshops. 2 I won't use the 50 percent, or the 3 33 percent. 4 What happens to the 26 percent? What's for 5 them? 6 I know you don't have an answer, but I think 7 it is such an important point. 8 We go back to the Olmstead decision: the most 9 integrated setting possible. 10 It doesn't -- what is best for the 11 individual? 12 Some of OPWDD's testimony, individual-based. 13 I -- I think we all agree with that, and 14 I don't think there's anybody in the audience, or 15 any advocate, that would disagree that it should be 16 person-centered. 17 The real concern that I have, and that I hear 18 time and time again from families, is -- is what -- 19 this is for us, this is for our loved one. It gives 20 them the purpose, the self-worth, all of these 21 different things. 22 LINDSAY MILLER: Right. 23 SENATOR GALLIVAN: And they know that not 24 everybody knows everything. I know that. 25 However, there are some that cannot go into a 1 different environment that would be better for them. 2 This is the best environment for them. 3 And I just simply think it ought to be an 4 option. 5 But let me address one point, and just 6 accept, I fully understand your point. 7 And I really do think, though, that this 8 point is, my purpose is, anyway, we put it aside 9 about the wage being paid. Your point is well 10 taken. 11 And so I don't want to focus so much on the 12 wage, but just -- 13 LINDSAY MILLER: Understood, yeah. 14 SENATOR GALLIVAN: -- the opportunities for 15 these individuals. 16 Some, who are -- who are at their optimum 17 right now in these workshops, have you -- have you 18 been to various workshops? 19 LINDSAY MILLER: I have been to one, and it 20 was a few years ago, down in -- 21 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Where was that? 22 LINDSAY MILLER: -- in Poughkeepsie, that 23 area of Dutchess County, I think it was. 24 SENATOR GALLIVAN: And what did they do 25 there? I mean, what type of work did they do? 1 LINDSAY MILLER: It was production work. 2 I don't remember the exact type. 3 SENATOR GALLIVAN: And just for the sake 4 of -- for the sake of the audience, I do know that 5 that is not an area that you work in. I mean, you 6 come representing a different agency. 7 LINDSAY MILLER: Right, absolutely. 8 SENATOR GALLIVAN: So it wouldn't be expected 9 that you should be visiting sheltered workshops. 10 LINDSAY MILLER: Right. 11 SENATOR GALLIVAN: But, anyway, so what -- 12 what brought you there? I mean, what gave you 13 occasion to go visit one? 14 LINDSAY MILLER: I was visiting our member 15 center down in that area, and it was a -- it was a 16 bigger agency. That wasn't all they did. And we 17 were there for a meeting, or something like that. 18 I don't remember. It was a few years ago. 19 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Okay. 20 LINDSAY MILLER: Quite a few years ago. 21 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Well, for the sake of 22 time, I will stop asking questions, and just go back 23 to the single point of: What about the others -- 24 LINDSAY MILLER: Yep. And -- 25 SENATOR GALLIVAN: -- that doing something 1 different is not for them? 2 And that's the population that so many are 3 concerned about. 4 LINDSAY MILLER: Understood. 5 And the one thing I just want to say to your 6 point about the Vermont data, is that those numbers 7 are about the satisfaction after the fact. 8 But I'm sure if you surveyed those same 9 families and individuals, you know, a few years 10 prior to the transition, it would have been 11 significantly more skewed in -- you know, in -- to 12 the effect that, you know, they were can scared of 13 the change. 14 And, of course, there's never going to be 15 100 percent satisfaction. 16 And there was a lot of work to be done in 17 New York State to make it happen. 18 But I think it shows that other states have 19 done it successfully, and that the results from both 20 the individual perspective and the family 21 perspective have been positive, despite what, you 22 know, the feelings were going into it. 23 SENATOR GALLIVAN: I would suggest that, if 24 all of us that are involved in policymaking, and in 25 various organizations in the community, are 1 open-mind -- are person-centered, and open-minded, 2 we can accommodate many, many things, and not just 3 strike some because we might not like certain 4 aspects. 5 LINDSAY MILLER: Right. 6 SENATOR GALLIVAN: All right. Thank you. 7 LINDSAY MILLER: Yep, thanks. 8 SENATOR ORTT: Thanks, Pat. 9 Thanks, Senator. 10 All right. Next up is Jennifer Monthie, 11 director of protection and advocacy for individuals 12 with ID and DD, Disability Rights of New York. 13 Jennifer, thanks for being here. 14 JENNIFER MONTHIE: Thank you. 15 Mr. Chairman, members of the Committee, 16 good evening. 17 My name is Jennifer Monthie. 18 I am pleased to be here today to speak on 19 behalf of Disability Rights New York, and to discuss 20 segregated employment and wage discrimination for 21 people with disabilities. 22 DRNY is the state of New York's protection 23 and advocacy system and client-assistance program. 24 DRNY represents thousands of New Yorkers with 25 disabilities, and is empowered by Congress to 1 investigate abuse and neglect of, and monitor the 2 programs and services to, New Yorkers with 3 disabilities. 4 I am the statewide director of the protection 5 and advocacy for individuals with intellectual and 6 developmental disabilities program at DRNY. 7 The PADD program has 10 staff attorneys, 8 located in 3 offices across New York State, 9 providing free protection, advocacy, and legal 10 representation to New Yorkers with intellectual and 11 developmental disabilities. 12 I'm honored to be here on behalf of DRNY. 13 Sheltered employment refers to a range of 14 prevocational and vocational programs, including 15 sheltered workshops, work centers, day services, 16 which are delivered in segregated settings. 17 These types of segregated programs have been 18 operating for decades under an assumption that 19 people with intellectual and developmental 20 disabilities must participate in intensive, 21 segregated preemployment training to be employable; 22 yet, the sheltered-workshop model has not 23 transitioned individuals with disabilities into 24 integrated employment. 25 Numerous studies, including from the 1 U.S. Department of Labor, have consistently found 2 that segregated programs do little to assist people 3 in learning the skills needed for employment. 4 Individuals served in sheltered workshops do 5 not have high rates of employment compared to those 6 who have supported employment without ever being in 7 sheltered workshops. 8 In fact, those in sheltered workshops have 9 higher support costs and lower wages when compared 10 to individuals who never were in sheltered 11 workshops. 12 In New York, sheltered workshops generally 13 congregate and segregate people in production 14 warehouse-like facilities to compete -- to complete 15 subcontract work. 16 Pay is typically based on the individual's 17 productivity which results in low compensation, far 18 below the federal minimum wage. 19 According to Andrew Cuomo, our Governor, 20 only 7,800 individuals with intellectual and 21 developmental disabilities had jobs which paid at 22 least minimum wage. 23 As of 2001, there were 5,600 employers 24 nationwide that paid sub-minimum wage to workers 25 with disabilities. 1 Almost 84 percent were sheltered workshops. 2 97 percent of workers in sheltered workshops 3 received sub-minimum wage. 4 People with disabilities and their families 5 are often misinformed that sheltered employment at 6 sub-minimum wage is the best and only option for 7 them. 8 There have been several studies of quality of 9 life of individuals with disabilities after the 10 conversion of a sheltered workshop. 11 Most people report that the conversion 12 initially caused anxiety, but, in long run, led to 13 benefits, such as increased income, new social 14 relationships, increased independence, and 15 discovering the potential of employment 16 opportunities they had never considered possible. 17 Still, some people were unable to find 18 employment, or experienced unstable employment, and 19 either remain unemployed or chose to return to 20 sheltered employment. 21 For this reason, DRNY continues visiting and 22 monitoring sheltered workshops across New York State 23 during the state's conversion. 24 In the last 11 months, DRNY has visited and 25 monitored 35 sheltered workshops, and will continue 1 to monitor workshops throughout this year. 2 Asking workers and agencies several 3 questions, DRNY has heard the same concern raised by 4 individuals with disabilities and providers: 5 Fear of loss of benefits. 6 Reluctance from families to allow transition, 7 fearing the consequences of leaving sheltered 8 workshops. 9 Concerns over the elimination of sub-minimum 10 wages. 11 Ultimately, these fears reflect the lack of 12 the State's investment in resources needed to 13 effectuate a viable transition. 14 Workers in these workshops have limited 15 access to vocational rehabilitation services. Many 16 do not have a relationship with state VR agencies. 17 There is a belief that individuals in 18 sheltered workshops are not eligible for VR services 19 because they're not ready for work without supports. 20 The strongest complaint of providers was the 21 underfunding of transition programs. 22 Workers are not consistently being offered 23 individualized supports through supported employment 24 services, and are generally provided with the 25 limited choice of remaining where they are, making 1 pennies an hour, or going to non-vocational day 2 programs. 3 The State must invest in this conversion, so 4 that each person in a sheltered workshop is offered 5 the option of supported employment, instead of 6 relocation to non-pay day supports. 7 Where this investment is happening, DRNY has 8 seen the fears of individuals and families eased. 9 Individuals are transitioning to exciting 10 opportunities. 11 This investment includes establishing 12 partnerships with the state's VR agencies. 13 People with disabilities prefer to work 14 alongside non-disabled co-workers when given actual 15 choice and individualized supports. 16 Many agencies and other states are already 17 supporting this choice in investing in this 18 workforce. 19 The states have diverted resources from 20 sheltered-employment programs to 21 supported-employment programs. 22 Individuals with significant disabilities are 23 engaging in integrated, paid work within business 24 and industry, with ongoing support. 25 In 2000 -- and this state was highlighted by 1 our previous speaker, so I'm going to highlight it 2 here -- Vermont decided to stop funding new entrance 3 into sheltered workshops, just as New York has done. 4 Beginning in 2002, they decided to close all 5 sheltered workshops over a three-year period. It 6 took them less than three years. 7 By 2012, Vermont's integrated employment rate 8 for individuals with intellectual and developmental 9 disabilities was twice the national average, at 10 35 percent. 11 Vermont invested 29 percent of a total 12 allocation of services to supported employment. 13 In New York, as of 2003, only 14 7,369 individuals, 13 percent served, to Vermont's 15 38 percent, were enrolled in supported employment, 16 while 54,919, or, 87 percent served, were receiving 17 segregated day services, prevocational, sheltered 18 employment, or day habilitation. 19 These numbers are not surprising, since 20 New York spent less than 4 percent, to Vermont's 21 29 percent, of the total allocation on supported 22 employment services. 23 Vermont spends over $11,000 per person, to 24 New York's $5,000 per person, on supported 25 employment. 1 When public dollars are invested in 2 employment programs that individualize placement in 3 local businesses, those dollars are used more 4 cost-effectively than in the segregated-program 5 model. 6 In fact, research shows that employees 7 receiving supported employment services generated 8 lower cumulative costs than employees receiving 9 sheltered-workshop services. 10 The cost trends of supporting employment 11 shift downward over time; whereas, the cost 12 associated with sheltered workshops increased over 13 time. 14 Yet, it has been difficult to break the hold 15 segregated programs have on public funds. 16 In 2012, the National Council on Disability, 17 an independent federal agency which makes 18 recommendations to the President and Congress, 19 issued a report, "Sub-minimum Wage and Supported 20 Employment," which examined seven states, including 21 New York. 22 The report established the foundation for 23 change that is happening today in New York. 24 The committee recommended a national 25 transformation of sheltered employment services, and 1 to phase out sub-minimum wage, quote, a policy relic 2 of the 1930s when discrimination was inevitable, 3 because services were based on a charity model 4 rather than empowerment and self-determination. 5 To this end, DRNY recommends this Committee 6 review NCD's recommendations and transformation 7 plan, including: 8 The role New York should take in expanding 9 employment programs and services. 10 Creating and investing in peer-support 11 networks for those in sheltered workshops 12 transitioning to integrated employment. 13 Phasing out sub-minimum wage, and requiring 14 mandatory notification and training to every 15 individual in segregated day settings of the 16 supported-employment model. 17 DRNY stands by the principle that no person 18 with a disability should be discriminated against in 19 employment settings by being paid less than the 20 minimum wage available to all other citizens. 21 DRNY promotes the equal opportunity for all 22 individuals with disabilities, regardless of the 23 nature of the severity of their disability, to 24 achieve competitive employment through inclusion and 25 integration into the workforce. 1 Thank you. 2 SENATOR ORTT: I think we're all set, 3 Jennifer. 4 Thank you. 5 JENNIFER MONTHIE: Thank you. 6 SENATOR ORTT: Next up is David Zenger from 7 the Zenger Group. 8 DAVID ZENGER: Thank you, gentlemen. 9 Thank you for the opportunity. 10 I probably have a different perspective. 11 We're a company that is in the business of 12 making money, and so we have choices. 13 And one of our first choices has been working 14 with sheltered workshops for 25, 30 years, for a lot 15 of reasons. 16 I have a script here, but maybe I can just 17 speak from the heart. 18 First off, they offer a ready, available 19 source of 25 or 30 people in a moment's notice, do 20 jobs that we couldn't do in that time frame. And 21 they do it competitively, with supervision, with 22 people that really like to work, and do nice jobs, 23 and seem very happy at the work they do every day. 24 A lot of the work is not necessarily, you 25 know, attractive to a good portion of the 1 population. It's hand-collating; it's working with 2 boxing sets of people -- or, boxing sets of books 3 for major publishers; kit packages for science 4 programs; and what have you. 5 But the opportunity they provide us, to be 6 able to react to a big demand in a product line, is 7 not found anywhere else. You know, we can't go 8 anywhere else to find a workforce, 30 people, with 9 supervision, that can produce the results we need. 10 We have the option to hire temporary people, 11 but they just don't have the work ethic in a lot 12 cases. They don't enjoy their jobs. They're not 13 consistently available. They're not committed like 14 those in a sheltered workshop. 15 We've also had success, where we brought 16 teams of personnel in from a sheltered-workshop 17 organization into our facility. 18 That depends on the nature of the job, and 19 what we're doing, if it fits in our situation, if we 20 have the facilities to -- that accommodate them. 21 One of the other key elements of the 22 sheltered workshop, too, is not just the people, 23 that's the most important part, but, the second 24 part, is the place. 25 A lot of times, our facility can't 1 accommodate the 30 or 40 people needed for two weeks 2 at a time, that's done in that time frame. 3 We can't have a shop full of 30 or 40 people 4 during the whole course of the year, because we just 5 don't have that ready-employment capability in a 6 consistent manner. 7 So that sheltered workshop and/or placement 8 of a group from that workshop in our facility can be 9 fulfilling our demand in a short time frame. 10 Also, it helps to be very competitive too. 11 I mean, I know we're talking about the wage, 12 and situations there, but it's -- the cost of the 13 labor to do the assembly work is very competitive 14 with that of a cadre of temporary workers. 15 One of the things -- and I want to speak to 16 some of the remarks earlier too. 17 I've worked in this environment. Spent 2 or 18 3 days a week, sometimes, 30 or 40 weeks a year, 19 working in a facility. 20 It's -- it's -- it feels good to know that 21 we've got people that enjoy their work. They know 22 you by name. They want to fulfill on the promise to 23 help our company succeed. And, everybody's happy. 24 So I don't see the kind of environment where 25 people appear to be -- or, they're suggesting 1 they're being abused in some sort of fashion. 2 We don't want to lose this resource. 3 It's -- we feel it enables us to contribute 4 to the community. 5 We have people that want to work, being put 6 to work, and have the supervision that's necessary. 7 I think some of the other people have talked 8 about, Well, why not integrate? 9 We've tried that. Haven't had a whole lot of 10 success, except in a few circumstances. 11 The sheltered-workshop organization has 12 people that are sensitive to the needs and the 13 requirements or the disability that that individual 14 may have. 15 So, all in all, we don't want to lose this 16 valuable resource, and don't want to see the 17 sheltered workshop go by the way of history. 18 And, hopefully, that we can reorganize in a 19 fashion, that everybody's happy, and everybody feels 20 like they're being treated fairly. 21 Thank you. 22 SENATOR ORTT: David, I guess I have two 23 quick questions. 24 How many individuals would you say you -- go 25 through your company? 1 DAVID ZENGER: Our firm is 100-plus regular 2 employees. 3 SENATOR ORTT: Okay. 4 DAVID ZENGER: We're a production operation, 5 we're a printing firm. 6 We do a lot of collation work, and such and 7 that. 8 But a lot of times we just can't handle the 9 volume, with the opportunity that's presented to us, 10 with just our own people. 11 And the problem that we've experienced, is 12 that that opportunity might be only for two weeks at 13 a time, or three weeks, and then another month 14 later. 15 So you can't afford to hire full-time people 16 to deal with the peaks and valleys that occur. 17 SENATOR ORTT: Okay. Do any of these folks, 18 do they have the possibility -- is the possibility 19 there to be promoted, or to -- you know, to go from 20 maybe the job they're initially hired for, to 21 something more? 22 Would you say that's -- 23 DAVID ZENGER: Within the sheltered-work 24 environment? 25 SENATOR ORTT: Yes. 1 DAVID ZENGER: Yes, absolutely. 2 I see, probably, two or three out of ten that 3 could work, with the right supervision, with the 4 right -- with the right sensitivity to what their 5 disability is. Absolutely. 6 But not all. I mean, there is a good 25 or 7 30, maybe even 50 percent, of the population that 8 I think would be uncomfortable working in an 9 environment like we have in our building. 10 SENATOR ORTT: Okay. 11 Are the jobs that they get, or the 12 assignments that they get, I guess my question is -- 13 I know you said -- you kind of referenced that a lot 14 of these jobs, you know, you can't find, you know, 15 certain folks to do it. 16 My question is: Are any of the jobs that the 17 folks in the sheltered workshop are performing, are 18 any of those jobs also performed by regular 19 employees, or, non-disabled employees? 20 DAVID ZENGER: Yes. Yes, they can. 21 SENATOR ORTT: That's all I have. 22 It's the easiest public hearing you're 23 probably going to go through, David. 24 [Laughter.] 25 SENATOR ORTT: So... 1 DAVID ZENGER: Thanks, gentlemen. 2 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thanks. 3 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Thanks, David. 4 SENATOR ORTT: Okay. Next up is 5 Chris Porter. 6 Chris, I'm not being rude. 7 I have to step out and use the little boy's 8 room. 9 I have read your testimony. I have it in 10 front of me. 11 I'll be right back. All right? 12 CHRISTOPHER PORTER: No problem. 13 SENATOR GALLIVAN: But you can start. 14 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: You can start. 15 CHRISTOPHER PORTER: I can start. Okay. 16 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: And finish, if you're 17 so inclined. 18 CHRISTOPHER PORTER: My name is 19 Christopher Porter, and I'm the chief legal officer 20 for the Heritage Centers, which is the Erie County 21 Chapter of NYSARC, which is a statewide 22 organization, not-for-profit, that provides a wide 23 range of services to individuals that are 24 developmentally disabled. 25 And the Erie County Chapter, of which I've 1 been very fortunate and very privileged and honored 2 to participate in working for NYSARC, is one of the 3 largest chapters, approximately 1,000 employees. 4 I'd just like to start out by giving kind of 5 a brief introduction of what our agency does. 6 There's been several speakers that have 7 alluded to what kind of goes on in what has been 8 called "sheltered workshops," but there's, also, 9 I want people to realize, that, you know, our aim 10 isn't -- in our organization, our aim is really to 11 maximize people's potential, recognizing that not 12 one size -- you know, one size doesn't fit all. 13 We're not just aspiring -- you know, there's 14 been discussion that people should be paid a minimum 15 wage. 16 We're not just looking to see that they get a 17 minimum wage. 18 We're looking, if they can make more than a 19 minimum wage, we -- and they can handle that type of 20 a job function where they can do so, we would like 21 to encourage them to do so. 22 And we do have many individuals that are 23 making above minimum wage. 24 And, you know, when there's been reference 25 to, kind of the, you know, sheltered workshops, we 1 want to give an idea of -- you know, that's only one 2 component of the type of employment functions, or 3 supported employment functions, that we provide or 4 that NYSARC provides. 5 And it's really in those areas, you know, 6 it's just a different way of paying. People are 7 paid per piece, basically, at a piece -- what they 8 call a "piece rate," and it's based on production. 9 It's kind of analogous to, if you have like a 10 commissioned sales person, they're being paid for 11 how many ads they sell in a newspaper. 12 It's kind of a similar type of a function. 13 And it might be, in some cases, that some 14 individuals can produce more than others. 15 You know, I want to make the point, when 16 Mr. Penberthy was up here, I was very pleased for 17 his acknowledgment that, you know, one size doesn't 18 fit all. 19 And I'd like to say, too, that, you know, 20 whatever people in our audience might feel about, 21 you know, OPWDD, generally, you know, I have been 22 advised by several individuals that, you know, 23 particularly with respect to Mr. Penberthy, he's 24 been very helpful in helping us with some difficult 25 situations. 1 So, whatever people might feel about the 2 agency or the directives, you know, I'd ask that -- 3 you know, I just want people to know that I've been 4 advised personally, he's been very helpful, on 5 certain situations, in helping out. 6 Some of the types of things that we do, or, 7 that the types of work, and our employment arm also 8 goes under the DBA of Allentown Industries, and it's 9 commonly known as "Allentown Industries." 10 We provide janitorial services for a wide 11 range of, particularly government contracts, and 12 also private employers. 13 We also do furniture refinishing. 14 We also provide landscaping, grounds 15 maintenance, snow plowing. 16 You know, we've had some success 17 transitioning individuals, particularly in the last 18 two years, from -- to a more integrated setting, 19 because our aim is always to place people with the 20 maximum opportunities. 21 And few would dispute the ideal. 22 You know, the ideal of taking individuals and 23 moving them into a more integrated setting that have 24 some challenges or developmentally-disabled 25 challenges, you know, few would dispute that ideal. 1 And we're certainly also cognizant -- you 2 know, there was a reference made to the cost of 3 OPWDD paying for certain services. 4 We're very cognizant of where we are -- and 5 our CEO, and, you know, we are very cognizant that 6 we need to be efficient stewards of taxpayer 7 dollars. 8 That's incumbent, I think, upon any 9 not-for-profit organization, or any agency, that 10 receives taxpayer funds. 11 So we're always looking for ways to try to 12 improve our processes, to not only maximize the 13 opportunities for individuals. 14 You know, the individuals in our -- you know, 15 a few points of consideration, I just want to -- and 16 many of them have been alluded to, many of -- each 17 of you Senators have alluded to them, very valid 18 consideration and points to consider in analyzing 19 this entire process. 20 And, you know, one of the things to remember, 21 and I don't remember which of you Senators brought 22 it up, but that there were a significant number of 23 individuals in these workshops that wanted to remain 24 there, that were happy with exactly the way things 25 are. 1 And there is an initiative, the Council on 2 Quality and Leadership, that is pushing what are 3 called "personal outcome measures," training tools, 4 where these tool -- this tool is kind of designed, 5 it's kind of an interview technique with 6 developmentally-disabled individuals, where the 7 focus of it -- and this is to get an accreditation 8 for -- from this accrediting agency -- the focus of 9 it, is that you're trying to be sensitive, and 10 listen, to what the developmentally-disabled 11 population is desiring to do. 12 So I think when you make the point that their 13 voices have to be considered, that is very, very 14 prudent thinking. And I think it's something that 15 has to be a point of consideration in this. 16 Also, as has also been alluded to, there are 17 going to be individuals that -- and, you know, 18 there's even the acknowledgment, one size doesn't 19 fit all. 20 There are going to be individuals, where, 21 you're going to do everything under the sun, and 22 you're going to -- you're going to -- we're going to 23 maximize every potential opportunity that we can, 24 and, it's just not going to be feasible that they're 25 going to -- and the previous speaker, you know, even 1 alluded to certain circumstances, that there's 2 certain individuals that just are not going to fit 3 in a traditional competitive-employment setting. 4 Will we continue to strive to do what we can, 5 and strive for that optimum goal? 6 Absolutely. We're going to work as hard as 7 we can to try to do that. 8 Notwithstanding whatever regulatory changes 9 are out there, we're going to do what we can to be 10 as efficient as possible, and try to maximize 11 opportunities. And, we have to recognize the 12 realities out there. 13 There are just a certain number of realities. 14 People in these settings, they also get a 15 tremendous sense of self-worth. 16 I've spoken, I interact with some of these 17 people. They're at our main location where 18 I perform much of my primary daily duties, and I see 19 some of these individuals. I can see the pride. 20 They're not, you know, locked in any room. 21 A lot of them sometimes go home to their 22 families or other settings that they have. 23 This is -- this is a -- the people take 24 pride. Some of these people take very significant 25 pride in what they do. 1 There's -- it's their -- there's a 2 therapeutic component, in addition to a paycheck, 3 that these people are getting. 4 And, as was also alluded to, another point of 5 consideration, is that, you know, transportation, 6 and several speakers have alluded to this, that it's 7 a major issue for -- you know, it's not just a 8 question of, let's find an employment opportunity 9 for them, as some of the Senators and some of the 10 speakers have alluded to previously. 11 First of all, not -- you know, even though 12 we'd like to get them an employment opportunity, 13 there aren't always employment opportunities 14 available. 15 As much as we would like that to be the case, 16 that's not -- that's just a reality. It's just 17 stating a reality. 18 And we have to deal in reality when we're 19 analyzing these things and considering these things. 20 But you also have to consider how you're 21 going to get that person to work. 22 You know, as we -- as, you know, 23 Mr. Penberthy alluded to, there was a grant, 24 I believe, for transportation, which was very 25 helpful, and we appreciate that. 1 And, transportation, getting the individuals 2 to and from their employment, is a type of service 3 that, when one is making changes, there is a need to 4 consider that as a necessary component to meet the 5 needs of the individuals we serve. 6 And there are other considerations, I'll just 7 mention a few others. 8 You know, one of them is, and it's been 9 alluded to by the Senator -- each -- I think each of 10 you here, and that is, kind of giving a time frame, 11 or a transitional frame, so that change can be 12 managed and can be made in a manner that is the 13 least disruptive as possible, and satisfies the 14 needs of individuals, and allows individuals to 15 adapt to changes that they may need to make. 16 And, you know, that's something very -- 17 another very excellent point to consider, because if 18 you don't give that appropriate time frame to 19 change, then, sometimes, there may be a very 20 worthy-intended legislation, but sometimes there are 21 unintended consequences that are created, or 22 additional problems. 23 Whereas, if you give, you know, a little bit 24 more time, or appropriate level of time, to make the 25 changes, you can modify or mitigate some of those 1 concerns. 2 There's also, and I'll just, you know, 3 mention this as a final consideration, and, by all 4 means, these are not necessarily all the points 5 that, you know, one could raise on the issue, and, 6 you know, we're sensitive to the concerns of 7 everyone, both the -- you know, the State's, and the 8 individuals that we serve. 9 And you know, one of the -- an additional 10 consideration, is there are individuals that have 11 been in these settings, and that's what they're used 12 to. 13 And, it's not so easy sometimes to move an 14 individual, particularly if they have some 15 developmental disability, to say to them: 16 Okay. I know this is what you've been used 17 to doing. You've taken a tremendous amount of pride 18 in this. You're gaining a lot of emotional 19 satisfaction from this circumstance. You're getting 20 a paycheck; whereas, there would be no other 21 opportunity for you, probably, to get a paycheck 22 elsewhere. And, now you're going to have to do 23 something different. 24 You know, there's going to be individuals 25 where that's going to be difficult for them to make 1 that transition. 2 And that's -- that's -- you know, as I said, 3 there are many factors. 4 I really appreciate the opportunity here. 5 I appreciate the -- and we're always open to 6 listen to opinions of any parties that wish to 7 express themselves. 8 And, again, we're always seeking to maximize 9 what we can do, and I really appreciate the 10 opportunity. 11 If there are any questions, go ahead. 12 SENATOR ORTT: Thanks, Chris. 13 Do you have any questions? 14 SENATOR GALLIVAN: I'm just curious, did you 15 participate last year at all in the -- OPWDD as they 16 traveled across the state? 17 CHRISTOPHER PORTER: I did not, because -- 18 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Not you personally, but 19 did your organization? 20 CHRISTOPHER PORTER: Oh, my organization, I'm 21 not sure. 22 As I said, I did not, because I was the 23 general counsel of a medical practice at the time. 24 I joined Heritage Centers this year. I'm 25 very privileged to be working with this population. 1 And, you know, I'll just say, briefly, you 2 know, I've been an attorney for 24 years. 3 I've worked for a health-insurance company. 4 I've worked for a medical practice. I've had a lot 5 of private clients, worked for individuals with 6 disabilities. 7 One of the really rewarding things about 8 where I am in working, is, unlike some other legal 9 jobs, you really can see how it helps particular 10 people. 11 And it's a great honor, and I really 12 appreciate the privilege. 13 I think I can find out, you know, if our 14 organization did participate. I'll be happy to do 15 that. 16 SENATOR GALLIVAN: I'd be interested in 17 knowing that. 18 CHRISTOPHER PORTER: Sure, certainly. 19 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you. 20 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Very quick question: 21 Chris, what's the numbers of hours that an 22 individual at Heritage Centers works per week? 23 CHRISTOPHER PORTER: I think it depends on 24 the individuals. 25 You know, I know one of the figures 1 I mentioned, that we've -- we've -- and, by the way, 2 one of the other points about this, too -- 3 SENATOR ORTT: Hold on. 4 Stick to the question, Chris. 5 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: How many hours a week 6 does the average person work? 7 You know, do some people work five days a 8 week? Some people work three days a week? 9 Just give me a very brief synopsis. 10 CHRISTOPHER PORTER: I would have to get you 11 those statistics. I don't want to give you an 12 incorrect answer on that and just guess off the top 13 of my head. 14 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Does anybody work 35, 15 40 hours a week? 16 CHRISTOPHER PORTER: We do -- I'm pretty 17 confident we do have individuals that work that. 18 I mean, we do have individuals that are -- 19 yes, we do. Definitely do. 20 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: If you can get me that 21 information, I'd appreciate it. 22 CHRISTOPHER PORTER: Sure, absolutely. 23 We do have individuals that, as I said, make 24 more -- you know, they're paid hourly. 25 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Yes, you told us that. 1 Thank you. 2 CHRISTOPHER PORTER: And sometimes a little 3 more, you know, significantly more, than minimum 4 wage. 5 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: If you could get us 6 that information, that would be great. 7 CHRISTOPHER PORTER: Sure, absolutely. 8 SENATOR ORTT: Thank you, Chris. 9 Next up is Todd Vaarwerk, director of 10 advocacy and policy, from the Western New York 11 Chapter of Independent Living. 12 Todd, thanks for being here. 13 TODD G. VAARWERK: You're welcome. 14 Unlike some of my learned colleagues, I'm 15 going to do something unique. 16 I'm not going to read any of my testimony. 17 It's in front of you. You guys know how to 18 read. 19 I want to talk about what I've been hearing. 20 And what I've been hearing, in some ways, has 21 moved me so much, I've started to pace in the back 22 of the room. 23 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: We saw you. 24 TODD G. VAARWERK: If you've ever been in a 25 situation where there are two parts of you that are 1 at war with each other at what to say, this is where 2 I'm sitting at this particular moment. 3 Not only do I represent an independent living 4 center for this community, but I'm also a person 5 with a developmental disability. And I have 6 parents. And I have a brother with a developmental 7 disability who didn't do as well in vocation as 8 I did. 9 So, I look at this both from a personal and a 10 professional standpoint, and I'm going back to that 11 question: 12 What do we do with the 25 percent? 13 What do we do with the guy that just wants to 14 work? 15 I'm not opposed -- what I'm opposed to is 16 segregated employment at a sub-minimum wage, because 17 that's what this is about: segregated employment at 18 a sub-minimum wage. 19 If we can fix those two problems, we can find 20 models that are going to be able to support people. 21 And even in the Olmsted decision itself, it 22 deliberately says, there has to be a continuum of 23 services. 24 Remember, the Olmsted decision was about 25 people in nursing homes getting out. 1 The nursing-home industry was so concerned 2 about their industry being shut down to this 3 population, that the decision had to cover there 4 needing to be a continuum of services. 5 And there needs to be; but at the same time, 6 we genuinely have to look at what "choice" means. 7 As I'm listening to some of the professionals 8 speak, some of the parents or the 9 supportive-workshop supporters in the audience were 10 shocked that they've never been to a sheltered 11 workshop. 12 I have. 13 I'm a partner with my local community. 14 I know the great work that Heritage does, 15 I know the great work that Southeast Works does, 16 I know all the great work that all the donee 17 organizations do, and I still ask those same 18 questions: 19 Are we really giving people real choice? 20 Are we working with the families to deal with 21 their fear of change? 22 Are we handling the reasonable accommodation 23 issues in an integrated-employment setting, like, 24 transportation, and hours policy, and all of these 25 things that are a genuine barrier to real 1 employment? 2 Because, true, the ADA is 25 years -- started 3 their 26th year. 25th anniversary was 4 July 26th. 5 We really haven't done a lot to solve the 6 problem for employment for people with disabilities, 7 and the ADA started out as an employment law. It 8 started out to bring us to full employment. 9 Yes, probably as part of a welfare-to-work 10 initiative, but we can save that for another time. 11 Gentlemen, where I'm at is this: 12 Is there going to be an easy solution? No. 13 But the solution had to have been started for 14 years ago. 15 In 2009, VR started saying to people: 16 Sheltered-workshop employments weren't successful 17 vocational goals. That you needed to move people to 18 integrated employment. 19 We've been talking about this for a while. 20 And this has been a hotly contested issue in 21 the disability community; specifically, with those 22 agencies where we are dealing with people that are 23 represented by their parents and their families 24 whose interests are critical. 25 So, gentlemen, what do we do with the 1 25 percent? We find a solution. 2 Does it need to be a segregated solution at 3 less than minimum wage? 4 I certainly hope not, because, without a 5 little bit of luck, and some hard work by a parent, 6 I'm one of those people. 7 And I can tell you, work satisfaction isn't 8 the only thing that gets you up to go to work in the 9 morning. 10 And if you need a comparison, I only 11 reference you to the McDonald's workers who have 12 been wanting $15 an hour. 13 Our friend from NYSRA is right, it's going to 14 take a sea change. 15 A lot of these answers to these questions 16 aren't related to the sheltered-workshop question, 17 but they are related to the broad-community 18 question; and the broad community question is: Are 19 people with disabilities, and, in this case, people 20 with developmental disabilities, entitled to work 21 with their non-disabled peers at a wage that is 22 commensurate with what everybody else is making? 23 The answer is yes, and there really shouldn't 24 be any argument about that. 25 The next question is: How do we achieve it? 1 And with that, I will take your questions. 2 SENATOR ORTT: Well, Todd, I certainly 3 appreciate you being here. 4 It's always good to talk to you, and always 5 good to see you. 6 In your testimony -- your written testimony, 7 you had talked about the federal waiver, the 14(c) 8 waiver. 9 TODD G. VAARWERK: Yeah, the 14(c) waiver. 10 SENATOR ORTT: As someone who, you know, 11 meets with legislators across all levels of 12 government, where -- where is that, I guess, at the 13 federal level? 14 Is there support for that? 15 Has it been introduced? 16 Do you see that being a realistic 17 possibility? 18 TODD G. VAARWERK: I think what you've seen 19 on a national level, is you've seen, and I know you 20 guys alluded earlier to one of the speakers about -- 21 talking about, you know: Do we need to set aside a 22 certain portion of State work for people with 23 disabilities to benefit from? 24 Rather than deal straight on with the 14(c) 25 question, that's kind of where the federal 1 government went. 2 The President came out and said, Look, 3 federal contractors are going to need to be able to 4 make sure that, the original number was 7 percent, 5 but it fluctuates, of contractors are going to 6 employ people with disabilities. 7 And just on that alone, within two or 8 three months, I have Home Depot, and Office Depot, 9 and a bunch of places with a federal contract, 10 saying: Okay. What can you tell us about employing 11 more people with disabilities? What are their 12 rights under the ADA? 13 So, did they handle it in the 14(c) category? 14 Not really, because I think they're waiting 15 for CMS to deal with the integrated issues, and then 16 they're going to want to deal with the wage issues. 17 I hope that they'll deal with the wage issue 18 soon, because I do think that the $15-an-hour demand 19 does make it much more complicated for us to be able 20 to achieve things by timeline, because, as my 21 learned colleague from NYSRA said, this is going to 22 affect the entire system. 23 If the person who helps me get ready to go to 24 work in the morning, home-based personal-care 25 assistance, makes less than the guy flipping 1 burgers, how long am I going to keep that person 2 employed? 3 And if they're not there to help me, how am 4 I going to get to work? 5 So we really need to look at that $15-an-hour 6 thing as the second part of the 15(c) question. 7 First, we got to get them up to what minimum 8 wage is now. Then we got to worry about what's 9 going to happen when minimum wage goes to $15? 10 But I definitely think there's that middle 11 ground, there's always that thing that's got to be 12 discussed. And all of the state agencies have to 13 get into it. 14 OPWDD, my friend Kevin Penberthy, I always 15 love it when he testifies. 16 The buzz words are all there, they really 17 are, but I think everybody in this audience knows, 18 the devil is in the details. 19 Because, you can give me as many buzz words 20 as I want. Until there's the option deliberately 21 put in front of me that I can put my name on the 22 dotted line for, I don't trust them for nothing. 23 And this is the guy who gets service 24 coordination from a DD agency. 25 I'm looking very seriously at what OPWDD 1 does, but I'm also looking very seriously at what 2 SED does, through VESID, what the New York State 3 Commission on the Blind does, what OMH does...what 4 all these people do, to talk about how they're going 5 to get their populations to employment. 6 Today we're talking about DD. 7 So when you talk to me about the 25 percent, 8 you're talking to me about the 25 percent of 9 developmentally-disabled people. 10 And I'm here to tell you, I don't think 11 they're all getting freedom of choice, and I don't 12 think that we're challenging them as much as we can. 13 And we can do better, and we should do 14 better, because challenge is the thing that makes us 15 healthy, challenge is what makes us aspire. 16 I don't care how big the goal is or how small 17 it is. 18 We've worked with consumers, that what they 19 make money for, is they want to have an Xbox like 20 their brother does. And it takes us two years to 21 help them save for that. 22 SENATOR ORTT: Okay. I don't mean -- you 23 definitely answered my question, so, that's okay, 24 Todd. 25 TODD G. VAARWERK: Sorry about that. 1 SENATOR ORTT: That's okay. 2 TODD G. VAARWERK: I'll prattle (inaudible). 3 [Laughter.] 4 SENATOR ORTT: All right. 5 Senator Ranzenhofer. 6 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Just a very quick 7 question, and I probably should have asked this of 8 some of the earlier speakers. 9 People reference the Vermont model. 10 Do you know, you know, for instance, somebody 11 working in one of these integrated systems, I mean, 12 how many -- are these people working 35 hours, 40, a 13 week? Are they working one day a week? 14 Do you -- if you don't know -- 15 TODD G. VAARWERK: Well, the model flexes, 16 again, based on the need of the individual, because, 17 remember, competitive, integrated employment isn't 18 defined as 35 hours a week, making X. 19 Competitive, integrated employment -- 20 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: I understand that. 21 TODD G. VAARWERK: -- is based on the skills 22 and interests -- 23 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Let me ask you this 24 question: 25 Do you know -- like, for instance -- 1 I just want to make sure this is not 2 happening, or I want to know if it is happening. 3 -- if somebody is working in a 4 sheltered-workshop setting, and they're working, 5 say, 35 hours a week, and then we integrate them 6 into a competitive setting, are they still working 7 35 hours a week, or are they going down to 8 hours a 8 week? 9 TODD G. VAARWERK: Ideally, I would believe 10 the goal in the Vermont model is to keep them at 11 that 35 hours. 12 But, also -- 13 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: I just want to know if 14 you know what's actually happening in Vermont? 15 TODD G. VAARWERK: Well, what's actually 16 happening? No, I haven't been to Vermont. 17 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Okay. 18 TODD G. VAARWERK: What I know the model is, 19 their intention is to keep them at that same bevel, 20 but they can slide up or down -- 21 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: I understand that. 22 TODD G. VAARWERK: -- depending on what their 23 needs become in that environment. 24 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Thank you very much. 25 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Just one question. 1 Have you been out to the kazoo factory? 2 TODD G. VAARWERK: Not in the last little 3 while. 4 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: When's the last time 5 were you there? 6 TODD G. VAARWERK: Eight, nine years ago. 7 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Was SASi running it 8 then? Do you know? 9 TODD G. VAARWERK: I think so. 10 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Well, if you can answer 11 this, I understand the pay, putting it off to the 12 side, and I just want to talk about the segregated 13 setting. 14 What's your impressions of the kazoo factory? 15 Is that a segregated setting, in your mind -- 16 a segregated setting that is okay, or not okay? 17 If you can comment, or offer an opinion. 18 TODD G. VAARWERK: I didn't see it as 19 integrated, Senator. 20 And I have to be honest about that. 21 SENATOR GALLIVAN: It's okay. No, I want you 22 to be. 23 TODD G. VAARWERK: But, then, I didn't -- you 24 know, I didn't turn around and say, Well, only 25 disabled people are working here. 1 I did see non-disabled people working there, 2 but the preponderance really struck me, and in terms 3 of, it was non-disabled people doing some of the 4 supervision and some of the more complex tasks, and 5 then you had -- and then you were down with disabled 6 people doing piecework. 7 Now, you're assembling kazoos, so, you know, 8 what kind of work do you expect? 9 But then, on the other hand, I looked at that 10 and said, Okay, you know, where is the benefit for 11 that? 12 I asked that question that the Senator did of 13 the person from the Heritage Center: 14 Can that person move into that next level of 15 employment? 16 Are we aspiring them to move to a higher 17 level of employment, with a little bit more 18 responsibility, and a little bit more of a wage? 19 And from the tour I took, I didn't get the 20 impression that that was happening. 21 So that, for me, put the capital S on 22 "segregated," and I stuck with it. 23 Now, I haven't been there in a while. I've 24 had other issues to deal with. 25 But if you think it's something that I should 1 look at, again, I'm happy to do so. 2 SENATOR GALLIVAN: No, I think you're -- 3 well, my observation, as far as who was working in 4 what position, I mean, matches yours. 5 But I was just -- I was curious, your 6 thoughts about a setting like that, in particular. 7 TODD G. VAARWERK: Yeah, see, it's the 8 ability to be able to move freely about the job 9 setting commensurate with your skills and interests. 10 Segregated also becomes about, you know, who 11 you dealing with on a daily basis? 12 It's the diversity of work that sometimes 13 makes it interesting, isn't it? 14 And the thing with segregation is about, you 15 know, diversity is lost a little, not a lot, just a 16 little, you know, and it's enough that, from a 17 consumer perspective, it would bother me. 18 SENATOR ORTT: Okay. 19 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you. 20 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: All set. 21 SENATOR ORTT: Todd, thank you very much. 22 TODD G. VAARWERK: You're welcome. 23 SENATOR ORTT: All right. Next up is 24 Corey Heritage, senior manager, business development 25 and governmental affairs, from the New York State 1 Industries for the Disabled. 2 And I believe, Lani Churley. 3 You guys will be coming up together? 4 Okay. 5 COREY HERITAGE: Just to make it easier. 6 Good evening, Senators. 7 Thank you very much for having this event, 8 first and foremost; and, secondly, allowing me to 9 speak. 10 Again, my name is Corey Heritage. I am with 11 NYSID (New York State Industries for the Disabled). 12 We are a not-for-profit -- private not-for-profit 13 that was designated by New York State Finance Law, 14 162, as one of the preferred sources for 15 New York State. 16 As such, you have my testimony in front of 17 you as well, and I'm not going to try to read from 18 it. 19 I do want to let you know that, again, NYSID 20 provides -- our sole focus is to find employment for 21 people with disabilities, on the entire spectrum of 22 that term. 23 We provide them in both service, 24 community-based, as well as, we utilize our member 25 agencies. 1 We have 122 not-for-profit member agencies 2 throughout the state that do utilize sheltered 3 workshops as well, to employ people with 4 disabilities. 5 We employed over 7,000 people last year on 6 preferred-source contracts alone. 7 Specifically, how this seismic change will 8 affect the folks that we work with on a daily basis: 9 Last year alone, you have 220,000 hours of 10 work not provided by people with disabilities. You 11 would have over 1200 people not employed. 12 There's been a lot of talk about different 13 statistics and different studies in states. 14 I do not know the Vermont study at all. 15 I will tell you that Vermont has a population 16 that's half the population of the Buffalo-Niagara 17 metro area, so I don't know how that equates to 18 New York State. 19 I will tell you that Maine has done something 20 similar. 21 And, in particular, Senator Ranzenhofer, your 22 question about hours, they saw, roughly, two-thirds 23 of the participants were moved from sheltered 24 workshops to competitive employment or 25 community-based employment, two-thirds of their 1 hours were cut. 2 So the question of, "Did they go from 35 3 hours to 35 hours?" we have not seen that in what we 4 have seen. 5 We've also seen that, I think you had also 6 brought up the question, Do they go into day hab, 7 volunteering, and things of that nature? 8 And I don't want to get this number wrong, 9 but, they saw non-work placements go from 550 10 people, to 3,178. 11 Now, again, Maine's not a big state either, 12 compared to New York State, but I do think there is 13 some other representation that we need to look at 14 out there. 15 Specifically, to the closing of sheltered 16 workshops, and CMS, I know there's been a lot of 17 conversation as that as well, that they won't fund 18 vocational work or vocational training for people 19 within a sheltered-workshop environment. 20 That's not accurate. 21 There was a final determination, a final 22 question-and-answer period, that came out last 23 December, and the question asked very specifically: 24 Do regulations prohibit individuals from receiving 25 prevocational services in a facility-based setting, 1 such as a sheltered workshop? 2 Answer: "No. The federal regulations 3 require that all HCB settings must support full 4 access to individuals receiving Medicaid, HCBS"... 5 And it goes on from there. 6 But the question was very clear. 7 And, actually, I really appreciated our 8 previous speaker talking about even the Olmsted Act 9 talking about a continuum of services. 10 And that's really where we're coming from. 11 We at NYSID, we don't want to see any 12 barriers to employment. 13 We would love to have the -- the typical 14 unemployment rate for New York State is about 15 71, 72 percent. 16 People with disabilities, it's 31 percent. 17 We would love it to double, and still it 18 would still be 10 percent less, which is 19 unacceptable. 20 But, with that being said, we don't believe 21 that there should be -- there should be an absolute 22 wide right of choice. 23 We do agree with that that should -- there 24 needs to be much greater emphasis placed on 25 individualized work, individualized support 1 services, individualized planning. 2 But when that planning is put in place, and 3 the individuals, along with their support staff, 4 family, advocates, whomever else, themselves decide 5 that this is the best course of action for them, 6 they should be able to have that choice. 7 We 100 percent agree with, whether they -- 8 folks who really do not particularly care for 9 sheltered workshops, and those that do, "choice" is 10 the key word, and I absolutely agree. 11 I agree that we want to have as fully 12 integrated, as fully community-immersed individuals 13 as possible. 14 But I guess what it comes down to for us, 15 more than anything else, is that we don't want to 16 see those 1400 people that -- and that's just on the 17 preferred-source contracts. 18 I'm not talking about the hundreds of 19 thousands of hours that are worked on commercial 20 contracts, whether it be for a publishing company, 21 whether they be for a kazoo company, whether they be 22 for any kind of industrialized work. 23 I mean, that's really -- that is correct 24 about the sheltered workshops: you are seeing 25 manufacturing work. 1 We don't want to see any of those avenues for 2 employment reduced, plain and simple. 3 And we are in full support of the ADA, which 4 is equal -- equality of opportunity, full 5 participation, live independently, and enjoy 6 economic self-sufficiency. 7 There is something to be said to getting a 8 paycheck, and there is something to be said to 9 being, to feel, that productive part of society: the 10 friendships, the mentorships, the day in and day out 11 interaction with people, with a shared goal of 12 getting a job done. 13 And we are in 100 percent support. 14 I have a couple things that I wouldn't mind 15 leaving with you guys, that have some -- that are 16 from our member agencies, from Orleans County, from 17 Livingston-Wyoming, some of our member agencies that 18 have quotes from people who have been working there, 19 and just simply say that, I -- one of the quotes 20 says, "I would be lost without my job." 21 There is nothing that affects us more, than 22 being able to give people a full array, and a full 23 sense of belonging and acceptance. 24 And I think part of that, not all of it, but 25 part of that is being able to have an employment 1 opportunity, no matter what that employment 2 opportunity may be. 3 SENATOR ORTT: Thank you, Corey. 4 What I'm going to do is, I'm going to have, 5 Lani, if you want to give your testimony now, and 6 then, any questions, we can direct towards whichever 7 one. 8 LANI CHURLEY: Thank you, Senators, for the 9 opportunity to participate and testify today, and to 10 NYSID for extending the invitation to us as a member 11 agency, to sit here. 12 A little introduction, briefly, to 13 Southeast Works. 14 Southeast Works is a non-profit agency 15 situated in Depew, New York, kind of halfway between 16 a suburban and rural area where transportation, mass 17 transit, is very limited. 18 Within our agency we have 200-plus 19 individuals that would be affected by this change. 20 A couple of statistics right off the bat: 21 30 percent of those 200 are over 50 years 22 old. 23 We heard some discussion about piece rates. 24 We measure productivity. 25 If somebody who is earning minimum wage or 1 more is considered to be at 100 percent productivity 2 level, 97 -- 97 percent of the individuals that we 3 serve in our work center are under 30 percent 4 productivity. 5 The position of Southeast Works on the future 6 of the work centers, we support the options for all 7 individuals, and understand the need to evolve our 8 programs, while still aiming to become more 9 integrated with the non-disabled community. 10 However, we feel that services should be 11 designed through person-centered planning, and do 12 believe a "one size fits all" model will, 13 essentially, eliminate choices and options. 14 We've really appreciated OPWDD's effort to 15 create more opportunities through Pathway and 16 community pre-voc for the purpose of exploration. 17 It's very difficult to assume that somebody 18 could make a choice, an educated choice, on any 19 employment path if they have no idea what it looks 20 like. 21 So those initiatives have allowed for that 22 focus on exploration. 23 Southeast Works collaborates with NYSID and 24 Access VR. We have several corporate partnerships, 25 where we have put people with disabilities to work, 1 earning well over a minimum wage, as well as other 2 state contracts. 3 We have started community pre-voc, the 4 planning and implementation of such, in our 5 facility. 6 When asked to speak today, I noticed on the 7 bulletin that it asked for three specific focus 8 areas: Impact on individuals, impact on families, 9 and impact on business. 10 I talked a little bit about the individuals. 11 Of the 200 people that we serve, we are in 12 the process of identifying for transition, 40 people 13 a year, based on that timeline. 14 I heard Mr. Penberthy say that the year 2020 15 gives us time to develop strategies. 16 I have to start today, and we have started 17 today. 18 Giving us to 2020 doesn't give us the time to 19 develop strategies for people who are under 20 30 percent and over 50 years old. 21 We've started our strategy-building and do 22 what we can. 23 The impact on individuals, it will reduce 24 options for those currently participating, whose 25 skill sets and preferences match facility-based 1 programming, and whom are also opposed to making 2 such a drastic change at this point in their life, 3 service, or career. 4 This reduces options for individuals 5 transitioning out of schools who have higher 6 medical, dietary feeding, or behavioral needs. 7 Individuals may lose dignity, will lose 8 dignity, by being required to receive supports for 9 these above needs in an integrated and public 10 setting. 11 I could not imagine having to be asked to let 12 me help you get toileting taken care of in front of 13 my peers. 14 Where are the options for these individuals 15 with the highest needs? 16 Individuals have always had a right to keep 17 their disability disclosed -- undisclosed. 18 How is this going to be maintained when such 19 high levels of staff, supervision, and support are 20 required in community-based settings? 21 Impact on families: 22 Families have had a history of a lack of 23 trust, and, Senator Ortt, you talked about a lack of 24 confidence. 25 Families and individuals do want to know that 1 the supports are going to be there and in place. 2 And they're really asking that of agencies at 3 our level at this point, and so we do feel pressure 4 to be able to provide answers where answers are not 5 currently available. 6 As a result, I do encourage the additional 7 communication and outreach efforts between agencies 8 and OPWDD. 9 Impact on businesses: 10 About 12 years ago, when I started at 11 Southeast Works, one of the first existing customers 12 that we subcontracted with at that time, 13 I approached, and I said, "Why do you choose 14 Southeast Works to outsource your work to?" 15 And they said, "Because you're the cheapest 16 around." 17 I did not take that as a compliment. 18 We would be successful if customers that we 19 worked with had no idea that individuals with 20 disabilities completed their work product, because 21 it should be done and returned at the same level of 22 quality and within the same time frame at the best 23 price possible. 24 Most of our customers, which took so long to 25 develop the relationships with, we've had, for some, 1 for over 25 years. 2 They outsource work to our facility because 3 it's a win-win for them, based on their business 4 model. 5 They may not have the space on-site at their 6 facility for their product or our workers to get the 7 jobs completed. 8 We have worked diligently with customers over 9 the years to move individuals to customers' 10 locations, to their integrated settings. 11 This is not a new concept. 12 The fact is, it just doesn't work for some of 13 our customer base. 14 One example is Cintas, a local customer that 15 we clean, reshape hangers for. 16 Sounds like a very simple job. 17 What we do for this customer, is we save them 18 money. They don't have to buy new hangers to put 19 their uniforms on, to get out to their customers. 20 By taking the hangers back from their own 21 customers and getting them to us, our folks clean 22 them, reshape them, sort them, stack them, remove 23 any debris, and get them back to that customer. 24 That is an incredible value add that would 25 not be replaced. 1 SENATOR ORTT: Lani, I'm going have to ask to 2 you if you can shore it up in the next few minutes 3 here? 4 LANI CHURLEY: Sure can. 5 I will just say, in closing, that we 6 support -- Southeast Works supports the evolution of 7 programming, and efforts to increased 8 community-based integration. 9 I would ask and encourage increased efforts 10 on the definition of what "integrated" is. The 11 definition for "employment" will change by 12 individual. 13 And consider the definition -- or, consider 14 working on, possibly, an evaluation or assessment, 15 because support groups and treatment teams come 16 together to determine if an individual is ready for 17 whichever level of integration might be an option, 18 who really gets the final say. 19 Thank you. 20 SENATOR ORTT: Thank you, Lani. 21 All right. Well, I have one question for 22 each. 23 First to Corey. 24 Could you take me through the types of 25 businesses that are under your umbrella? 1 COREY HERITAGE: Sure. 2 So, NYSID is, as I said, a not-for-profit, 3 and we have 122 community-based rehabilitation 4 entities, like, Southeast Works, or Heritage Center, 5 all the ARCs; those things. 6 SENATOR ORTT: Okay. 7 COREY HERITAGE: We also are allowed to 8 corporately partner. 9 Right now, we have about 36 corporate 10 partners as well. And they, on any contract we do, 11 have to employ a minimum 50 percent disabled labor 12 on the contract. It's a contract by contract 13 agreement. 14 And so that's -- so we've got 168-ish total 15 membership throughout our organization. 16 And as I said, last year, that employed just 17 over 7,000 individuals. 18 SENATOR ORTT: Okay. 19 COREY HERITAGE: And I'll also just tell you, 20 because I know you had asked before, and the average 21 wage between all those individuals was about $15 an 22 hour. 23 SENATOR ORTT: Thank you. 24 And, Lani, in your written testimony, you had 25 talked about, sort of, the evolving, you know, 1 integrated opportunities. 2 Can you give me an example of what that would 3 look like for Southeast Works? 4 LANI CHURLEY: We have as -- 5 SENATOR ORTT: What you had in mind when you 6 were -- 7 LANI CHURLEY: Sure. 8 As we have mentioned, and many have 9 mentioned, it would require a culture change. 10 Currently, we have brought -- made some 11 changes to our own facility. 12 We're situated in a former school building. 13 We have a cafeteria that's operational. 14 We've just signed an agreement with an 15 external food-service company to come in and take 16 over operations of our cafeteria. 17 Having that company and those non-disabled 18 individuals at our location is part of the 19 evolution, but a very, very small step, meeting the 20 requirements that have been proposed, and some of 21 guidelines are very steep, but this is a start. 22 SENATOR ORTT: And that was undertaken 23 internally, just of your own -- 24 LANI CHURLEY: Yes. 25 SENATOR ORTT: -- of the company's volition; 1 right? 2 LANI CHURLEY: Correct. 3 SENATOR ORTT: All right. Thank you. 4 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: I'm good. 5 SENATOR ORTT: Thank you both very much for 6 your testimony. 7 All right. Next up is Gregory Cavanaugh. 8 Gregory is the general manager at 9 Buffalo Felt. 10 I'd like to welcome you, Gregory. 11 Thank you. 12 GREGORY CAVANAUGH: Hi, Senators. 13 I don't have a prepared statement because 14 I'm -- like Mr. Zenger, I'm going to speak from the 15 heart. 16 SENATOR ORTT: Okay. 17 GREGORY CAVANAUGH: I employ about 20 people 18 at our facility. 19 We've been working with workshops for over 20 20 years, and love what they do. 21 SENATOR ORTT: Could you move the microphone 22 a little closer? 23 There you go. 24 GREGORY CAVANAUGH: We love what the 25 workshops do for us. 1 I want to provide whatever I can for these 2 people. 3 I've been through these workshops for 4 20 years. 5 Currently, I do one that's a large job for an 6 eraser company, and we make about 8 million erasers 7 through Allentown. 8 They clean them, they pack them, they count 9 them, they stack them. 10 We do sewing at the Olmsted. 11 We do packaging also at Allentown. 12 So for me to lose a workshop, I would have to 13 get creative. 14 I don't have the space to bring in. We've 15 tried that. Like Mr. Zenger has said, we tried 16 bringing people in from the workshops. 17 I don't have the room, I don't have the 18 facility. 19 A place like Allentown has the space. They 20 have great supervision. They do great work. 21 And, if we lose the workshops, we could lose 22 that business. 23 I'm tired of hearing, "I'll go to China." 24 I'm tired of it. 25 I have a unique opportunity here with our 1 company and with the workshops, and together we've 2 been successful. 3 We've pushed China back, and I'm pretty proud 4 of that. 5 So I would hate to lose these workshops. 6 And the reason I came forward is to say, all 7 the jobs that we give these workshops have helped 8 our company. It keeps us in a competitive position. 9 So, thank you for invite. 10 SENATOR ORTT: I appreciate your testimony, 11 and your take on that. 12 You mentioned, I think, the eraser factory. 13 Can you take me through a couple other, 14 maybe, jobs -- types of jobs, where individuals 15 (unintelligible)? 16 GREGORY CAVANAUGH: Well, we're in the felt 17 business, so we do manufacturing, and we fabricate. 18 There are things that we can't do. 19 We can't sew. 20 The Olmsted does sewing for us. 21 SENATOR ORTT: Okay. 22 GREGORY CAVANAUGH: We can't do packaging, we 23 don't have packaging capabilities. 24 Allentown has capabilities of doing that. 25 We make a chalkboard eraser, and 1 Opportunities Unlimited puts the labels on for us. 2 I don't want to do that in our building. 3 I want to give it to these workshops. 4 I love giving that work to them. 5 And it's such a heartwarming pleasure to walk 6 through those plants and watch those people be so 7 proud of what they do. 8 And, I'm glad we're in a position to give it 9 to them. 10 However, I think we may lose it. 11 That would be a shame. 12 It would be a shame for the people, the 13 families, and for companies like me. 14 SENATOR ORTT: And how many years have you 15 employed workshops? 16 GREGORY CAVANAUGH: We've been in business 17 38 years. I've probably actively used workshops for 18 over twenty. 19 Probably in the last 15 years, I've used 20 Allentown almost exclusively. 21 They've done a great job. They're just great 22 to work with. 23 So my other alternative with the large job 24 that I have, is to probably go to our customer's 25 area, which would be Wisconsin, and try to attempt a 1 workshop there. 2 It would be a shame to lose it from here. 3 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: I'm good. Thanks. 4 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thanks. 5 SENATOR ORTT: Gregory, thank you very much. 6 Next, if I could, I would like to call up two 7 parents, if we could double up again. 8 Martin -- or, Marty Powers -- Martin Powers, 9 as well as Karen, I think it's, Duboy. 10 It was handwritten, so if I mispronounced 11 it -- is it Duboy? 12 Karen, if you could come on up. 13 First of all, thank you both for being here. 14 MARTIN POWERS: Well, thank you for having 15 us. I appreciate it. 16 The professional part of the evening, 17 I believe, is coming to a conclusion, and the 18 amateurs have now taken over. 19 My name is Marty Powers, and my goal for 20 being here tonight, is I am the father of 21 Tim Powers, who's been a worker at Southeast Works 22 for 26 years. 23 Tim is now 56 years old, and since his birth, 24 my wife and I have been somewhere near the front 25 lines on the battle for services for the 1 developmentally disabled. 2 We have fought the battle in schools, 3 health care, housing, and now his workplace. 4 My wife and I have been active with OPWDD 5 through many name changes, and a collection of 6 mission-statement changes, and new issues, and new 7 options. 8 My wife sat on the Residents Rights Committee 9 at the West Seneca Developmental Center for 4 years. 10 And I was on the Board of Visitors for 10 years out 11 there. 12 We're not so young ourselves anymore, but the 13 battle, apparently, is not over. 14 That battle now involves not just expanding 15 services for this vulnerable population, but to try 16 to keep what we have. 17 Disabled service in the school-age population 18 has improved a lot since the day we were told that 19 they had nothing for us and we should take our son 20 home. 21 By the way, we didn't. 22 But once schooldays are over, what does such 23 a person do? 24 There seems to be, and I've heard it tonight, 25 a "feel good" myth, that with the right education 1 and training, these folks will run right out and get 2 jobs and become productive members of our society. 3 True, for a few, very few, that might be the 4 case. 5 But for most, the truth is, they will never 6 be ready to compete for a job and work in a society 7 where a high school education is no longer adequate 8 preparation for work. 9 You can't get a decent job just out of 10 high school, and all other things being equal. 11 Enter the sheltered workshop, a place of 12 productivity, a place of camaraderie, and a place of 13 dignity. 14 The first significant thing about this place 15 is that it is sheltered. 16 It provides the ability to train longer than 17 normal that employees are supposed to take to learn 18 a task. 19 It provides an appropriate setting for those 20 who might be a little slower, or need less 21 stimulation in their environment. 22 For example, if you are autistic, you don't 23 want to hear a factory whistle. You will curl up on 24 the floor. 25 Little details that we don't think about. 1 The second thing about the place is, is it's 2 a workshop. 3 There is an inherent dignity to work. 4 We all complain about our jobs, but, in 5 reality, those very jobs define who we are. 6 When we introduce ourselves to strangers, one 7 of the first things we say, is what we do for a 8 living. 9 Our disabled friends are no different. 10 They are not going through any motions. They 11 are producing real goods and real services. 12 We believe in the right of every individual 13 to reach his or her full potential, and many have 14 done that in the sheltered-workshop arrangement. 15 Now it appears that the State of New York, 16 which once was the gold standard for disability 17 care, has different plans. 18 Budgets have been slashed, and so-called 19 "voluntary" agencies are being asked to step in and 20 carry the State's load in housing, care, and today's 21 topic, sheltered workshops. 22 Let's be really clear: 23 Many of our folks will need care for the rest 24 of their lives; care that is residential, medical, 25 physiological, and vocational. 1 There is no one way to remove one of these 2 functions and have anything but other than a 3 warehouse. 4 If the cutters have their way, what takes the 5 place of the sheltered workshop? 6 This is not a place to integrate 7 prevocational training of recovering addicts or 8 those with brain damage or physical limitations. 9 This integration would not be fair to either 10 group: the group needing a temporary place of 11 training, or, those like my son, who are in the 12 middle of their life's work. 13 One of the sad components of the 14 developmentally-disability sector in New York has 15 always been the existence of huge waiting lists. 16 When my wife and I were very young, there was 17 a waiting list of nearly 1,000 waiting for services 18 in Western New York. 19 Now, later, years later, the number's 20 unchanged. 21 Clients are entering the system as emergency 22 admissions when one or both of their parents die. 23 And we have no way of knowing how many 24 parents are simply too old to deal with their 25 child's situation. 1 This is ridiculous. 2 This is expensive. 3 This is cruel. 4 As we stand here today, a cohort of people 5 who will need the workshop environment is working 6 its way through the school system. 7 Are we ready for this demographic? 8 I think not. 9 There was a time when we had a really good 10 system for managing the post-school-years life 11 experience for our developmentally-disabled adults. 12 State cuts have damaged an excellent system. 13 Budget rearrangements have siphoned off funds 14 for workshop maintenance and expansion to other 15 issues. 16 The State has turned its back on this 17 vulnerable population, expecting voluntary agencies 18 to pick up the responsibility. 19 Senator, I commend you for bringing this 20 issue to the sight. 21 We still have a good system. 22 Let's keep it. 23 Let's expand it for those coming behind the 24 current crop of workers. 25 SENATOR ORTT: Thank you, Marty. 1 Karen. 2 KAREN DUBOY: I think I'm going to shake some 3 things up here. You'll know where I stand when I'm 4 done. 5 Good evening, Senator. 6 I want to thank you for allowing me to come 7 here tonight. 8 I've seen Senator Gallivan a few times, and 9 he knows where I stand. 10 I am a mom, a very fussy mom. 11 It's the best title I will ever have. 12 Second is being a wife to my wonderful 13 husband of 31 years, tomorrow. 14 I was a stay-at-home mom for 20 years, and 15 never regretted that decision. 16 I have two wonderful sons, Matthew and 17 Timothy. 18 Matthew was born with down syndrome. 19 I knew my husband's life and mine would be 20 changed the day we received that diagnosis, but 21 I never imagined how enriched our life would be 22 today raising a special-needs child. 23 For the past 2 1/2 years, there is not a 24 night that goes by I do not worry and worry what 25 lies ahead for Matthew and others who love the work 1 program at the ARC of Livingston-Wyoming. 2 If it's forced to close its doors, I don't 3 know what to do. 4 There are nights I just cry, because I don't 5 understand why the Governor, CMS, and OPWDD feel 6 they have a right to say where my son is not in a 7 meaningful, integrated, community employment 8 program. 9 I have been told I am in violation of the 10 Olmsted and the ADA Act. 11 That really makes me angry. 12 Who are they to say what is best for my son? 13 For 26 years I have made sure the services 14 and education would help him be successful in life. 15 When it came time for him to transition from 16 the educational program to a work program, 17 I researched many programs, and selected the ARC. 18 That was what was best for Matthew. 19 I made that choice, because he can't. 20 Matthew loves getting up every day and going 21 to work. 22 In fact, when he comes home from his group 23 home for the weekend, on Sundays I have to remind 24 him, "Tomorrow is work." 25 It breaks my heart, because he's in a rush to 1 get back. 2 He looks forward to Mondays. 3 How many of us can say that? 4 I know many people who go to a job they 5 chose. They hate getting out of bed, and they're 6 miserable. 7 In February I traveled to Albany. I had an 8 opportunity to invite Acting Carrie -- 9 Carrie Delaney to come visit our workshop. 10 She accepted, she was there on August 11th. 11 While on tour, there was a gentleman, when 12 asked his name, he introduced himself as Raphael. 13 He told the Commissioner, "I'm 86 years old." 14 He loves working at the ARC, and would not 15 stop. 16 He's 86 years old. 17 Most of us in our early 60s are talking 18 about retiring. 19 Here is a man who loves his work. 20 Why would we take that away from him? 21 Where do you think he would go without the 22 ARC? 23 He goes to work, not a workshop. 24 Anytime an individual, parent, or guardian is 25 not happy and they want a change, the ARC will help 1 them explore the issues and make reasonable 2 adjustments. 3 No one is being forced to work at my ARC. 4 They are all happy. 5 Many have tried to work in the community and 6 have been happy. Some have not been happy. These 7 individuals are upset and stressed and cry at the 8 idea of leaving the ARC. 9 Now we are going to have the government step 10 in and force them to work someplace else, because 11 the government and agencies say they are not living 12 an integrated, meaningful community program. 13 Does this make sense? 14 The ARC of Livingston-Wyoming has a work 15 program that's a legitimate business. 16 They have 40 years of experience and 17 600 employees. 18 They have contracts with businesses that 19 respect our individuals. 20 What worries me, is some companies might get 21 nervous with knowing that this plan is down 22 five years. 23 They may send their work elsewhere when the 24 business contracts, like the ARC, come to an end. 25 Other businesses are worried if the ARC will 1 be in business in five years. 2 This could arc the business -- the ARC 3 businesses now. This plan could have a very 4 devastating impact on our community. 5 We need your help in listening to families. 6 The funding the ARC of Livingston-Wyoming 7 receives, it is being used in the best interests of 8 the community and the taxpayer. 9 Be assured of that. 10 I would not be here today supporting their 11 work if it was not at the best quality. 12 I am very involved with Matthew's life. 13 Remember, I'm a fussy mom. 14 Let me tell you, if something is not right in 15 the best interests of him, I let my voice be heard. 16 My ARC could be the role model to be used in 17 other workshops who are underperforming, not running 18 efficiently, or not offering a program to benefit 19 our individuals with intellectual-developmental 20 disabilities. 21 I would like to invite you to come tour our 22 ARC. 23 You will see a thriving everyday business 24 with individuals working hard; seeing employees take 25 pride in their work, socializing, coffee clutches, 1 helping one another, just like a business in our 2 community. 3 I am confident, once you see our workshop, 4 you will be able to go back to your constituents and 5 tell them about the experience of a rural business 6 supporting two counties. 7 The Livingston-Wyoming ARC could lead the 8 pack in changing the vision of the sheltered 9 workshops. 10 Instead of focusing on the funding, maybe 11 Governor Cuomo should use his energy and his 12 resources towards being creative and innovative in 13 helping us change the stereotype the community has 14 on sheltered workshops. 15 I would agree we may not have done enough to 16 educate the public on the positives of a workshop, 17 but we have some wonderful programs, and I think 18 with some change in the public side, it could work. 19 Please come see for yourself. 20 Would you like to say yes and visit our work 21 center? 22 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Been there. 23 KAREN DUBOY: Senator Gallivan has been 24 there, and he's been very supportive of our 25 business. 1 I would like you to consider coming and 2 looking at our workshop. 3 In closing: 4 We all have dates in our memories that will 5 be with us forever; some happy, some sad, some 6 life-changings. 7 July 26, 1989, is one of those days I will 8 never forget. 9 You see, this is the day Matthew's 10 pediatrician called to confirm her suspicions of 11 Matthew's down syndrome. 12 As I try to understand, and ask the question, 13 "Why?" I remember holding Matthew, rocking him, and 14 promising him, no matter what, he was going to live 15 a happy, loving, and productive life. 16 And I will continue to do that, and fight the 17 Governor if I have to. 18 I am his mother, and I know what's best for 19 him. 20 Please help us, Senators, to stop this 21 change, and stop this funding cuts that they want to 22 make. 23 Thank you. 24 [Applause.] 25 SENATOR ORTT: Thank you, Karen. 1 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: No questions. 2 SENATOR ORTT: You know, you were over the 3 limit, but there was no way I was going to stop you. 4 Okay? 5 So -- but I appreciate your testimony. 6 It was very heartfelt; both of you. 7 Thank you. 8 SENATOR GALLIVAN: I have no questions. 9 But I just wanted to say to the others here, 10 I'm involved because of Karen. 11 And, it was my first introduction to this 12 world, and I've learned quite a bit. 13 And I thank you for it. 14 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: I haven't been to your 15 workshop, but I've been to the workshops in the 16 counties that I represent, and they just do 17 wonderful work. 18 So thank you for testifying today. 19 SENATOR ORTT: And, Karen, I will follow up 20 with Pat, and we'll do a -- I'll drag him out there 21 again. But we'll do a tour of the workshop, if you 22 don't mind. 23 KAREN DUBOY: And I'll be there. 24 SENATOR ORTT: I know you will. 25 Martin, Karen, thank you very much, both of 1 you. 2 Last, but certainly not least, we have one 3 more. 4 Chris Peterson, from the ARC of Livingston 5 and Wyoming. 6 I don't know how you top that, Chris, but... 7 CHRIS PETERSON: I will be very brief, 8 because I live two hours away from here, and I know 9 how everyone is feeling out there. Like, Wow, it's 10 almost 9:00. 11 I just handed you fellas my information. I'm 12 not going to go over it. I'm not going to spend 13 more than, you know, five minutes talking about it. 14 I'll just hit a few key concepts and points, 15 and I would say, remember that choice is very 16 important. 17 It's been brought up earlier this evening. 18 A person's choice is paramount. It trumps 19 all, in my opinion. 20 And what a person wants, we should listen to 21 that. 22 Instead of what we may perceive as what's 23 correct, what's right, or what's wrong, ask the 24 folks. 25 I think you're fully aware of the Olmsted 1 decision, and all of that, and I think you're fully 2 aware that there's two sides to that story. 3 And contained in my written testimony, it's 4 there. 5 I think you're also aware that, you know, we 6 found out in April of 2014, from Cindy Mann, the 7 director of CMS, that it was the State's decision to 8 do this, and not CMS's. 9 That's fairly well documented. 10 And, currently, OPWDD has some options for 11 employment, which I think they may be on the right 12 track. 13 For example, in our particular operation, we 14 meet integration standards currently. 15 So I would say, yeah, that's good, but, it 16 might not be good for everybody, but I think it's a 17 step in the right direction. 18 I give Carrie Delaney, the acting OPWDD 19 commissioner, a lot of credit. 20 Senator Gallivan, you referred to it earlier. 21 I think she's adjusted her thinking. It's 22 not the same position that it was over a year ago. 23 And she did that, to her credit. 24 And, I'll end by again saying, just ask the 25 folks: What do they want to do? 1 And really listen to what they want to do. 2 And I'm saving you like 10 minutes of time, 3 because I know everyone wants to get going here. 4 [Laughter.] 5 CHRIS PETERSON: So, thank you for the 6 opportunity. 7 SENATOR ORTT: Chris, thank you very much for 8 your testimony, and for waiting patiently to deliver 9 it. 10 I appreciate that. 11 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Safe trip back. 12 SENATOR ORTT: Yeah, have a safe drive. 13 With that, we'll just do -- I want to make a 14 quick couple of concluding comments. 15 I'm sure my colleagues want to as well. 16 But, I again want to thank all of our -- all 17 of the folks who testified tonight. 18 You know, especially, many of you, all of 19 you, gave some really heartfelt testimony. 20 And, you know, I think the takeaway -- 21 there's a couple of takeaways for me tonight, and, 22 hopefully, for all of you. 23 One is that, I really believe everyone is 24 here with the same end goal in mind: 25 We want to serve, to the best of our ability, 1 or make sure, to the best of our ability, that we're 2 serving our loved ones, our family members, all of 3 our fellow, you know, citizens, who have an 4 intellectual or developmental disability, and we 5 want to make sure they have the most integrated, 6 most fulfilling, best life possible. 7 We may have some different -- you've heard 8 some different ways to get there, but I certainly 9 think that the goal is the same. 10 We can all agree that we need to do a better 11 job of serving this community. 12 I don't think there's anyone that can walk 13 out of here and think that everything is perfect 14 today. 15 I think the question is, you know: Where we 16 go; how we can improve the system, improve services, 17 but at the same time, keep what's working. 18 You know -- and, so, I don't know the exact 19 path. 20 We heard a lot tonight. 21 My colleagues and I, I'm sure, will remember 22 this, we'll digest this. 23 Certainly, I want to be a resource. 24 If anyone has -- if anyone has something that 25 they weren't able to say tonight, and they want to 1 say, they can reach out to my office, or 2 Senator Gallivan or Senator Ranzenhofer. 3 Certainly, if you're constituents of anyone 4 here, you can reach out to your elected official, 5 and make your voice heard, whether it's in writing, 6 or in a phone call, or what have you. 7 But there's no question, we have our work cut 8 out for us to improve the services we provide to 9 folks with developmental disabilities. 10 There's more work to be done. 11 We are not completely meeting the intent, 12 maybe, of the ADA; but at the same, I think you also 13 heard from some folks out here tonight who are doing 14 some really incredible job, really incredible 15 things, whether it's in a workshop, whether it's 16 businesses who are here voluntarily, partnering. 17 And I think, you know, one of the takeaways 18 I had was, one of -- you know, we heard a lot about 19 the individuals. 20 But the one folk -- the one gentleman from 21 Buffalo Felt, you know, his business might not be 22 here were it not for the folks, you know, in the 23 sheltered-workshop community. 24 I think that was pretty impressive that a 25 local company is maybe here today. 1 So, to me, that certainly wouldn't be the 2 case, were it not for that workshop in that 3 particular instance. 4 So, there's some positive takeaways. 5 Obviously, there's some improves and some 6 things we need to do better. 7 But I just want to thank everyone for being 8 here tonight. 9 And, with that, I will turn it over to my 10 colleague, Senator Ranzenhofer. 11 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Well, thank you, 12 Senator Ortt. 13 And I want to, first of all, thank you, and 14 your leadership, for convening this public hearing, 15 and for your advocacy and interest, and, again, 16 overall leadership on this issue. 17 SENATOR ORTT: Thanks, Senator. 18 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: For many of us who have 19 been dealing with this issue for years, you know, 20 this is not a lot of new testimony that we've heard 21 today, but it's always very important to listen very 22 carefully again, and again and again, to what the 23 community has to say. 24 And this was a very diverse public hearing, 25 where we heard, you know, many divergent points of 1 view. 2 But the one takeaway that I have, is I think 3 everybody really had the same goal in mind. 4 It's a question of, what pathway we take to 5 get there? 6 And that is, ideally, everybody would like to 7 have the most integrated system with the most 8 choices, and, how do we get there? 9 And I just want to make one comment. 10 It kind of reminds me of when I want to 11 high school. There was a lot of vocational emphasis 12 in the high school. 13 And over the years, you know, high schools 14 got away with that, and with the thought that, well, 15 everybody should go to college. 16 And I think we found out over time that, 17 well, maybe college isn't right for everybody, so 18 now we're trying to bring back vocational training, 19 because a lot of the jobs that we have here, you 20 know, for instance, the big development with the 21 solar panels, solar cities, we need people with 22 different types of skills. 23 So, over years, you know, kind of bringing 24 back to where we were, say, 40 years ago. 25 And I think that's where we are today. 1 And we have a system that works, and, 2 obviously, we have a system that needs to be 3 changed, to make it -- to give people more options, 4 to give people more choices, to make it more 5 integrated. 6 But you don't want to have a situation where 7 somebody is happy, has choices, is working, you 8 know, five days a week, and then gets into an 9 integrated system where they're working five hours a 10 week, and, they're doing other things that they 11 really don't want to do, such as volunteering or 12 retirement, or things like that. 13 So, I think if we leave the continuum of 14 options available, where, yes, there's a lot of 15 emphasis, we heard from Southeast Works, and a lot 16 of the other agencies involved, that they are trying 17 to become more integrated, they are trying to 18 provide more choices; but, at the same time, you 19 know, not losing the programs and the systems that 20 are in place right now that are working well. 21 So if we continue to dialogue and we continue 22 to work together, I think we can all reach the 23 common goal of, what is the best for each 24 individual? 25 And I think the parent from Pat's district, 1 Mrs. Duboy, I think it was, who summed it up, you 2 know, she's making the best choices for her family 3 and for her son. 4 And I think if we keep that objective in 5 mind, I think we can all reach a positive outcome at 6 the end of this whole process. 7 So, again, my thanks to Senator Gallivan for 8 joining me today; 9 And, Senator Ortt, for your leadership, and 10 for allowing it to be in my district, because I'm 11 probably the closest to get home when we're done 12 here. 13 So, thanks very much. 14 SENATOR ORTT: I can assure you that wasn't 15 necessarily in my thought process, but I'm glad it 16 worked out for you. 17 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Yes, it worked out very 18 well. 19 SENATOR ORTT: Senator Gallivan. 20 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Well, Chris, I know what 21 you feel like, being the last speaker. 22 Almost everything has been said. 23 I want to thank you again, everybody, for 24 being here, and taking the time out of your 25 schedules and your lives, I mean, to come and 1 present and let your voice be heard. 2 And as I mentioned at the beginning, please 3 continue your advocacy. 4 There's evidence that it works. 5 We've heard a number of people that have had 6 the firsthand experience, myself as well, seeing 7 OPWDD, in their outreach, change the position that 8 they were just a year ago. 9 And I -- please pass that on to the 10 commissioner, Kevin, that it is appreciated. 11 I mean, all of us, of course, that are in 12 public service have the obligation to do that. 13 So, please express our appreciation; and, 14 also, ask her to continue to keep it up. 15 And, as I think we've all talked about the 16 goals, and I think -- my thought is that, without a 17 doubt, everybody testifying wants the best possible 18 outcome in this. 19 And I think the way that we can get towards 20 it is by that continued advocacy of your 21 legislators, not just the three of us, but of your 22 elected representatives, the state agencies, the 23 statewide organizations, and then all the 24 not-for-profits centers that are helping people. 25 So, I thank you. 1 Keep it up. 2 SENATOR ORTT: Thank you all for coming. 3 [Applause.] 4 5 (Whereupon, at approximately 8:56 p.m., 6 the public hearing held before the New York State 7 Senate Standing Committee on Mental Health and 8 Developmental Disabilities concluded, and 9 adjourned.) 10 11 ---oOo--- 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25