1 BEFORE THE NEW YORK STATE SENATE
STANDING COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION
2 ------------------------------------------------------
3 PUBLIC HEARING ON S.5294:
4 TO EXAMINE THE LEGALIZATION OF
5 E-BIKES AND E-SCOOTERS
6
------------------------------------------------------
7
Flushing Town Hall
8 137-35 Northern Boulevard
Flushing, New York
9
Date: June 7, 2019
10 Time: 10:00 a.m.
11
12 PRESIDING:
13 Senator Timothy M. Kennedy
Chair
14
15 PRESENT:
16 Senator John Liu
17 Senator Jessica Ramos
18 Senator Toby Ann Stavisky
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
2
1
SPEAKERS: PAGE QUESTIONS
2
Guangfu Chen 12
3 A Delivery Worker
4 Xiaodeng Chen 15
Former Bike-Delivery Worker
5 Volunteer of Bike and Public Project
6 Randy Neufeld 19 24
Bicycle Product Suppliers Association
7
John Choe 29 32
8 Executive Director
Greater Flushing Chamber of Commerce
9
Li Jinhua 36
10 A Delivery Worker
Xiaoming Feng 36
11 Wife of Li Jinhua
12 Rafael L. Espinal, Jr. 41 43
Council Member
13 New York City
14 Mitch LaRosa 49 56
Program Director
15 Mobility Development Partners
16 Jackie Jiang 60 64
A Delivery Worker
17
Connie Fishman 65 74
18 Executive Director
Hudson River Park Friends
19
Nick Rotundi 65 74
20 Senior Vice President of
Operations & Facilities
21 Hudson River Park Trust
22 Dequan Lu 83 86
A Delivery Worker
23
Hermelindo Carrillo 91
24 A Delivery Worker
25
3
1
SPEAKERS (Continued): PAGE QUESTIONS
2
Helen Ho 94 110
3 Co-Founder
Biking Public Project
4
Dr. Do J. Lee 94 110
5 Professor, Queens College CUNY
Researcher, Biking Public Project
6
Ju Wong 94 110
7 Documentary Filmmaker
Adjunct Professor, Queens College
8
Alberto Gonzalez 114 118
9 A Delivery Driver
10 Eduardo Perez (absent) 119
A Delivery Worker
11 Statement read by
substitute speaker on behalf of
12 Clemente Martinez (absent)
13 Amy Tam-Liao 122
Families for Safe Streets
14
Mel Gonzalez 128 134
15 Legal Fellow
Make the Road New York
16
Marco Connor 135 139
17 Interim Co-Executive Director
Transportation Alternatives
18
Christine Berthet 146 151
19 First Vice Chair and Co-Chair of
the Transportation Committee
20 Manhattan Community Board 4
21 Phil Jones 158 171
Senior Director - East Coast
22 Lime
23 Edward Fu 158 171
Senior Regulatory Counsel
24 Bird
25
4
1
SPEAKERS (Continued): PAGE QUESTIONS
2
Will Burns 158 171
3 Spin
4 Will Nicholas 158 171
Executive Vice President
5 of Operations
Bolt Mobility
6
Bao Quing Lin 194
7 A Delivery Worker
8 Andrew Fox 197 201
Co-Founder and CEO
9 Charge
10 Nicholas Wong 207
Co-Founder
11 Upcycles Transit, Inc.
12 Matt Tolin 213 217
Vice President,
13 Partnership and Fleet Sales
OJO Electric
14
Eric Zoundi 222
15 Pedicab Driver, and Advocate
New York Pedicab Alliance
16 ---oOo---
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
5
1 SENATOR KENNEDY: Welcome, everybody.
2 Good morning.
3 Good morning, Queens.
4 Good morning, Flushing.
5 Good morning, New York City.
6 Good morning, New York State.
7 My name is Tim Kennedy. I am the Chairman of
8 the Transportation Committee.
9 Today is Friday -- TGIF, everybody -- June 7,
10 2019.
11 Welcome to a public hearing on e-bikes and
12 e-scooters here at Flushing Town Hall.
13 I reside way out west, some would refer to it
14 as the "wild, wild west," of Buffalo, New York.
15 I am always thrilled to be here in the city
16 to join you on such an important issue.
17 I'd like to welcome everyone to today's
18 hearing.
19 I want to thank our Majority Leader,
20 Senator Andrea Stewart-Cousins, who has put her
21 trust in me to serve as the Chair of the New York
22 State Senate Transportation Committee, and has put
23 improving transportation needs across the state of
24 New York as our Conference priority, a Democratic
25 Conference priority.
6
1 I want to thank Senator Jessica Ramos for
2 hosting this hearing with me, and for her advocacy
3 on this important issue.
4 I want to thank Senator Toby Ann Stavisky for
5 having us here in her district.
6 And, Senator John Liu, who had Flushing Town
7 Hall as the epicenter of his council district, now
8 it is on the outskirts of his Senate District.
9 SENATOR LIU: Now I'm on the outs.
10 SENATOR KENNEDY: He is now on the outs.
11 SENATOR LIU: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
12 SENATOR KENNEDY: As we move forward in
13 addressing transit deserts and more
14 environmentally-friendly policies here in New York,
15 we need to evaluate alternative transportation
16 methods, including better public transportation
17 networks, but also new technology like e-bikes and
18 e-scooters.
19 While e-bikes and e-scooters are different,
20 they're both possible solutions to solve many of the
21 first-mile/last-mile issues that communities around
22 New York are facing all across the state.
23 And as Chair of the New York State Senate
24 Committee on Transportation, the safety of
25 New Yorkers is critically important, whether they're
7
1 motorists, pedestrians, public-transit riders, or
2 riders of e-bikes and e-scooters.
3 And so my goal here today is to hear what you
4 have to say, and we need to make sure that this is
5 done correctly.
6 We have to bring all stakeholders to the
7 table, from service-industry workers, to
8 environmental advocates, transportation experts,
9 and, of course, to local government that will have
10 to implement this system.
11 So we're going to use the information that we
12 gather here today to change the laws, create
13 sustainable policy, and ensure that all New Yorkers
14 are safe regardless of their preferred mode of
15 transportation.
16 So once again, thank you all for joining us
17 here this morning.
18 I want to turn it over to, again, our host in
19 her district, Senator Toby Ann Stavisky, for a few
20 words.
21 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you,
22 Chairman Kennedy.
23 And welcome my colleagues, the people who are
24 coming to testify.
25 And let me just introduce, I have an intern
8
1 who has been in the United States for about a week.
2 She's from Hong Kong, and we welcome her
3 to -- her name is Andi, and we welcome her to this
4 town hall.
5 [Applause.]
6 SENATOR STAVISKY: Which is the essence of
7 our country, the idea that people can come and the
8 elected officials listen.
9 I -- unfortunately, I have to leave.
10 I have a meeting at 11:00 on another
11 important issue of -- to this community, the
12 Green Light bill, the driver's licenses for
13 undocumented individuals.
14 But I'm delighted that you're here, and
15 I will take the testimony and I will read every word
16 of what is -- and watch the video, I guess, of what
17 is said.
18 So, thank you.
19 [Applause.]
20 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you,
21 Senator Stavisky.
22 And next we will turn it over to
23 Senator Jessica Ramos.
24 And while she may be new to the Senate, I can
25 tell you she has brought a tremendous amount of
9
1 energy to the state legislature, and with that, a
2 new way of looking at things.
3 This is a bill, that we're here to discuss
4 today, that Senator Ramos carries and she's been on
5 the forefront of, very aggressively championing this
6 legislation.
7 So we turn it over now to Senator Ramos.
8 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you, Chairman Kennedy.
9 I have to say that, though this is a bill
10 before the Transportation Committee, I largely see
11 it as a labor bill that protects workers;
12 I see it as a criminal-justice reform bill
13 that protects immigrant workers;
14 And I see it as an environmental bill that
15 protects our planet as well.
16 And that's why I think it's so critical that
17 our statutes, as a state, really catch up to how we
18 are getting around, and how we are utilizing new
19 technologies to really address our issues of
20 micromobility, and ensuring that people are not
21 being further criminalized simply for being poor.
22 We all know that, unfortunately, because
23 delivery work is largely tipped work, many employers
24 take advantage and steal workers' wages.
25 And so, while we're not dealing with that
10
1 issue head-on today, it is really troubling when you
2 learn that, the City, which is a sanctuary city, a
3 pro-immigrant city, is cracking down on delivery
4 workers because they're driving e-bikes, and end up
5 receiving, not one, not two, we learned this
6 morning, up to four tickets, $500 each.
7 And I can tell you, delivery workers are not
8 doing that well to be able to pay, you know, $2,000
9 in tickets, have to buy a new e-bike if it was
10 confiscated, and on top of that, be able to provide
11 for their families.
12 So this is really about economic justice.
13 And I want to thank all of the advocates who
14 have been fighting for this for so long.
15 I want to thank my Majority Leader,
16 Andrea Stewart-Cousins, for allowing us to have this
17 hearing today, to make sure that you all are heard,
18 and, hopefully, the Transportation Committee will
19 move swiftly and make this bill a reality as soon as
20 possible.
21 Thank you.
22 [Applause.]
23 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you, Senator Ramos.
24 Next we will hear from Senator John Liu.
25 SENATOR LIU: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for
11
1 trekking all the way across the state, from the
2 furthest point to this place here.
3 I want to welcome everyone to Flushing Town
4 Hall, the seat of village government.
5 The town of -- the village of Flushing,
6 pre-1898, this is where government held its
7 business, and this is where, today, we are
8 conducting official New York State business on this
9 very important bill that has been shepherded by our
10 Chairman, Tim Kennedy, and sponsored by
11 Jessica Ramos.
12 I agree with everything Senator Ramos has
13 said already.
14 And in addition to what she has said, the
15 e-bikes and e-scooters, they are all also now,
16 today, a modern mode of transportation, hence being
17 in this committee that Chairman Kennedy chairs and
18 that I am a proud member of.
19 I look forward to hearing the important
20 testimony that's going to be provided today, as we
21 consider the potential passage of this bill.
22 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
23 [Applause.]
24 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you very much,
25 Senator Liu.
12
1 I also want to recognize the staff that has
2 worked so hard to help put today together.
3 From Senator Ramos's office, we have Sam
4 here, that is going to be working the clock next to
5 the front table.
6 I'm going to call up our first testifier, who
7 is going to be Guangfu Chen, a delivery worker.
8 So if Guangfu Chen could make her way to the
9 front -- his way to the front.
10 And just as far as logistics go, Sam is going
11 to be keeping a countdown timer, because we have
12 many, many testifiers, we have over 50 here today.
13 So we are going to try to keep to it
14 5 minutes, and she -- you do not want to upset Sam.
15 She is very difficult to deal with if you go
16 over 5 minutes.
17 Just kidding, folks.
18 But she will -- she will let you know when
19 the 5 minutes is approaching, and do your best to
20 keep it within that number.
21 We appreciate your, again, being here, and
22 your testimony here today.
23 Guangfu Chen, good morning.
24 GUANGFU CHEN: (Translated) Good morning.
25 Hello.
13
1 (Giving full testimony in foreign
2 language.)
3 [Applause.]
4 THE TRANSLATOR: I will translate for him.
5 (Testimony of Chen Guangfu translated to
6 English, as follows:)
7 GUANGFU CHEN: My name is Chen Guangfu. I'm
8 62 years old.
9 I came to the United States under political
10 asylum in 2015.
11 When I arrived, I was old, did not speak
12 English, and had no special skills, so I had to
13 deliver food for making a living.
14 A lot of things have happened to me during my
15 years of work as a delivery worker.
16 Soon after I started delivering food, I find
17 out that I have stomach cancer. So I had to undergo
18 surgery to remove three-quarters of my stomach.
19 Afterward, I got back to work in a restaurant
20 on 17th Street in Upper East Side.
21 Once, on the way back from a delivery, I was
22 robbed at knife pointed on my neck. He took all of
23 my cash.
24 After returning to the restaurant, my boss
25 was afraid of making trouble and he wouldn't let me
14
1 call the police.
2 Two of my electricity bicycles were stolen on
3 the street.
4 My colleague told me not to call the police.
5 They said, "The police are not available for us.
6 They are all too easy to give out tickets."
7 Another time, I was injured by a car.
8 Because I was so afraid of the police, I did
9 not call the police to report the accident.
10 I can endure all those nature and manmade
11 disasters, as I just have bad luck; however,
12 I really can't understand why the government doesn't
13 allow us to deliver on e-bikes, and why they want to
14 take away my only tool for survival.
15 I'm old and I'm in poor health.
16 I will lost my current job if I can't ride on
17 e-bike.
18 This year I have already been fined four
19 times by the police, and I have issued seven
20 tickets. I have been issued three tickets at once.
21 It have cost me more than $700.
22 The police confiscate my e-bike, which caused
23 great stress to my mind and caused danger to our
24 safety.
25 I have to always stay on guard against
15
1 robberies and the police in my daily job.
2 Needless to say, we made our hard-earned
3 money bearing the hardship of delivering food in the
4 wind and the rain.
5 Without an E-bike, how could I survive in the
6 future?
7 We ask the New York State government to
8 legalize electric bicycles.
9 [Applause.]
10 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you very much.
11 Next we will hear from Xiaodeng Chen, a
12 delivery worker.
13 And after Xiaodeng Chen, we will hear from
14 Randy Neufeld.
15 Good morning, Xiaodeng.
16 XIAODENG CHEN: Good morning, Senator.
17 SENATOR RAMOS: Good morning.
18 XIAODENG CHEN: Good morning.
19 My name is Xiaodeng Chen.
20 I'm here to testify as a former bike-delivery
21 worker, and a volunteer of Bike and Public Project.
22 At the age of 18 I moved to United States and
23 experienced an alienating phase of life.
24 I spoke limited English and had a few job
25 choices.
16
1 Bike delivery was one practicable one --
2 practical option.
3 My bike slipped and flipped often in snow
4 days.
5 Do you remember the blizzard of 2015?
6 The wind was blowing us away because of the
7 delivery backpack we wore, as a sail on a boat.
8 I was 29, the physical prime of my years.
9 But my body always become numbed and noticeably
10 reduced in its strength after a few hours of working
11 on bikes.
12 When in store I would work -- I worked in the
13 ice cream shops.
14 We are underpaid while working the back
15 kitchens, and the daily tasks were alienating, as
16 customers and gatekeepers of communities often
17 perceived delivery workers not equal citizen, but,
18 somehow, intruders, outsiders.
19 Those pedestrians who had bad days could
20 sometimes lash out in hostility.
21 To a taxi, passenger once opened the door on
22 bike lanes, and walked away after giving me a
23 high-five.
24 He said, Are you okay?
25 I got up from the street after the crash into
17
1 the door, I said, "yes," and he gave me a high-five,
2 and walked away.
3 The constant feeling of alienation was
4 unbearable.
5 Fortunately, I eventually met with a
6 (indiscernible) research group that helped
7 immigrants, illegal workers, like me.
8 I turned my vulnerability into strength, and
9 have since volunteered to assist other workers.
10 I learned that many people endure more
11 difficulty in their work -- in their work condition
12 more than I do, I experienced.
13 They constantly fear police officers and felt
14 not belonging.
15 They receive multiple tickets at once with
16 police abusively targeting on them.
17 There has been no communication on
18 coordinating regulations and dialogues, but the bane
19 existence of immigrant -- of migrant workers with
20 the mockery, even.
21 And that is -- that it is simply illegal, and
22 NYPD should just confiscate (indiscernible) E-bikes.
23 Workers receive large fines that are -- that
24 are only somewhere below the second-hand e-bikes, so
25 they will always try to get the bike back.
18
1 And this is a huge inefficiency of municipal
2 management.
3 (Indiscernible), we turn our weakness into
4 strength.
5 This is the moment we work -- where we
6 (indiscernible) together for fair dialogue, by
7 creating a strict (indiscernible), perhaps, even, or
8 transforming (indiscernible) into something safer.
9 NYPD and municipal executives have to see
10 that that abuse of vulnerable residents, who have
11 children and family, only lead to social split and
12 regretful history.
13 New York State should stop discriminating --
14 discriminate tools that migrant workers use, instead
15 of prohibiting energy-efficient transportation tools
16 and chaotically punish and leave huge room of power
17 abuse by undertrained, sometime, law enforcement.
18 There should be a regulation and a dialogue,
19 as we are a democracy that we claim to be.
20 Thank you.
21 [Applause.]
22 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you very much.
23 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you.
24 SENATOR KENNEDY: Next we're going to hear
25 from Randy Neufeld, Bicycle Product Suppliers
19
1 Association.
2 And following Randy's testimony, we're going
3 to hear from John Choe.
4 RANDY NEUFELD: Good morning.
5 I'm Randy Neufeld from Chicago, representing
6 the Bicycle Product Suppliers Association.
7 Chairman Kennedy, Senator Ramos, members of
8 the Senate, thank you very much for this opportunity
9 to testify.
10 We very much support S.5294.
11 We're a -- Bicycle Product Suppliers
12 Association is a 105-year-old trade association for
13 bicycle parts and manufacturers.
14 E-bikes are an emerging technology, a big
15 part of our market, and -- but they need clear rules
16 in order to regulate their use and create stability
17 in the marketplace.
18 E-bike consumers are everyone: baby boomers,
19 people with disabilities, working families; anyone
20 who chooses a bicycle with a small boost of energy.
21 Most importantly, electric bicycles represent
22 the livelihoods of tens of thousands of delivery
23 workers in this city and in this borough.
24 So S.5294 is important.
25 What is an "e-bike"?
20
1 I've brought one example right over here, so
2 you can see it's nothing to be terrified of.
3 SENATOR RAMOS: It's a fancy one.
4 RANDY NEUFELD: This is a fancy one.
5 There are inexpensive ones, and fancy ones as
6 well.
7 These are bikes that are a hybrid of muscle
8 power and electric power. It's a mix of those two
9 kinds of things, and there are different kinds.
10 You can go a little bit faster, but, mostly,
11 you're operating within the normal range of bicycle
12 speeds.
13 What's the problem that we're trying to solve
14 here today?
15 In 2003 the federal government issued a
16 regulation saying that e-bikes were not mopeds, but
17 they were bicycles.
18 And when they did that in 2003, it caused
19 some confusion at the state level, because states
20 like New York were regulating them as mopeds, and
21 mopeds require a vehicle identification number.
22 And if it's a bicycle, it doesn't have a
23 vehicle identification number, and so, therefore,
24 you couldn't register it.
25 Lots of confusion caused, they went into a
21
1 gray area.
2 And because of that, at the time, not very
3 many people cared about the issue. 2003, 15 years
4 ago, there weren't very many e-bikes.
5 Today there are lots and lots of e-bikes.
6 So the issue has come to a head.
7 And that's exactly the -- that confusion is
8 the problem that this bill is trying to solve.
9 We have established a classification system,
10 based upon that federal regulation, of three
11 different types of e-bikes.
12 It's important to understand those three.
13 I'm going to really quickly go through
14 Class 1, Class 2, and Class 3; vanilla, chocolate,
15 and strawberry; three kinds of e-bikes.
16 Class 1 is pedal-assist up to 20 miles per
17 hour.
18 That means that the motor never helps you
19 when you go over 20 miles per hour.
20 It doesn't have a throttle. The only way to
21 make the motor help you is by pedaling.
22 So pedal-assist up to 20 miles an hour,
23 Class 1.
24 Class 2 is a throttle bike up to 20 miles an
25 hour.
22
1 So there's a button on the handle bar, a
2 throttle. You push the button, it enacts the motor.
3 You also have really good working pedals so
4 you can assist.
5 If you reach the speed of 20 miles per hour,
6 the motor cuts out and it's all your power to do
7 anything over 20 miles per hour.
8 The third kind, Class 3, is pedal-assist up
9 to 28 miles per hour.
10 And that is, same as the Class 1, it's
11 pedal-assist, there's no throttle. You're pedaling
12 to make it go, but the maximum speed is 28.
13 And it's not like you start pedaling and
14 immediately go 28 miles per hour.
15 It would take you, like, a couple of blocks
16 to really get that kind of speed to get together.
17 These -- yeah, these electric bikes fit into
18 these three classes.
19 We have now passed this bill in 19 states,
20 these -- this three-class system has been passed in
21 19 states, and those states, I'll just name them
22 real quick, because it's important to know we're not
23 the first people in the world to deal with this.
24 It's Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado,
25 Connecticut, Idaho, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana,
23
1 Maryland, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Oklahoma,
2 South Dakota, Tennessee, Washington, Wyoming, and
3 Utah.
4 It's been almost non-controversial in all of
5 those states. Almost unanimous bipartisan enactment
6 of these bills.
7 This doesn't define exactly what happens in
8 New York City.
9 It happens -- what happens in New York State.
10 It gives a platform for local control for
11 New York City and all cities to then use the
12 three-class system to regulate the way that they see
13 fit.
14 Lots of things are happening with these
15 bikes.
16 A million were sold --
17 SAM: Time.
18 RANDY NEUFELD: A million were sold in
19 Germany last year.
20 It's a -- it's a -- it's a big change.
21 And we're -- we're seeing that this bill is
22 the kind of thing that makes these -- the utility of
23 e-bikes, the utility to delivery workers, happen in
24 many different places.
25
24
1 SENATOR KENNEDY: Randy, thank you very much.
2 Senator Liu has a question.
3 RANDY NEUFELD: Yeah.
4 SENATOR LIU: Thank you, Randy, for your
5 testimony.
6 How much does this weigh, this e-bike?
7 RANDY NEUFELD: It's kind of heavy. It's
8 about 50 pounds.
9 And -- but you have a motor to help you as
10 well.
11 SENATOR LIU: Well, yeah, I mean, you know,
12 the weight comes into consideration if there's a
13 mishap. Right?
14 RANDY NEUFELD: Yeah, they're --
15 SENATOR LIU: Is that --
16 RANDY NEUFELD: -- they're getting --
17 SENATOR LIU: -- the typical weight --
18 RANDY NEUFELD: -- they're getting lighter.
19 SENATOR LIU: -- of an e-bike?
20 RANDY NEUFELD: I'd say it's a pretty typical
21 weight, yeah.
22 SENATOR LIU: This is a typical weight?
23 It seems heavier.
24 RANDY NEUFELD: It's a little bit bigger.
25 It's -- it's -- it's -- a lot of the weight
25
1 is in the back.
2 SENATOR LIU: This is like a Cadillac of
3 e-bikes.
4 RANDY NEUFELD: Yeah, this is a Cadillac.
5 SENATOR LIU: Right.
6 RANDY NEUFELD: The battery -- the battery is
7 a big deal, the batteries are why they're expensive.
8 A lithium ion battery like that costs three
9 or four hundred dollars by itself.
10 SENATOR LIU: And is heavier?
11 RANDY NEUFELD: And it's heavy, and so that
12 causes a lot of the weight.
13 SENATOR LIU: Right.
14 I mean, there are plenty of e-bikes that are
15 much lighter here --
16 RANDY NEUFELD: Not --
17 SENATOR LIU: -- and could --
18 RANDY NEUFELD: Not a --
19 SENATOR LIU: -- potentially cause less
20 damage.
21 RANDY NEUFELD: Not a lot lighter, not a lot
22 lighter.
23 SENATOR LIU: Okay.
24 RANDY NEUFELD: If they have a battery,
25 they're going to be -- they're going to be heavier
26
1 than a normal bike.
2 SENATOR LIU: Uh-huh.
3 What about, do you have any comments on
4 e-scooters?
5 Do you think that they're totally related to
6 e-bikes?
7 RANDY NEUFELD: I think one of the comments
8 is that they are different. There's different --
9 there's different safety standards.
10 The -- the -- the safety context for e-bikes
11 is a lot older and a lot more solid.
12 For instance, there are federal standards
13 for -- for what's a safe design and what's a safe --
14 a safe e-bike.
15 The scooter industry is still -- still
16 working on that.
17 SENATOR LIU: Is there a natural synergy
18 between the two industries?
19 RANDY NEUFELD: There's some overlap --
20 SENATOR LIU: Like, would you retail both of
21 them?
22 RANDY NEUFELD: There's some overlap.
23 A number of the sharing companies do -- do
24 e-bikes as well as -- as well as e-scooters.
25 BPSA's position is that, as much as possible,
27
1 they should -- they should be dealt with separately.
2 It's perfectly acceptable to have them in the
3 bike lanes and on the -- on the bike infrastructure.
4 And we recommend a 15-mile-per-hour limit
5 on -- on their maximum speed, similar to
6 California's e-bike registration.
7 SENATOR LIU: One last question.
8 What is the -- what is the magic behind
9 28 miles per hour?
10 RANDY NEUFELD: The magic is that it's
11 45 kilometers per hour.
12 And it was a bike that was -- that was, and
13 is, available in Europe as a 45-kilometer pedillac.
14 And that's what --
15 SENATOR LIU: Is that just a --
16 RANDY NEUFELD: -- and that's where -- so --
17 so the --
18 SENATOR LIU: -- is there a regulatory regime
19 in Europe --
20 RANDY NEUFELD: There isn't --
21 SENATOR LIU: -- that sets it to 45 --
22 RANDY NEUFELD: There isn't a regulatory
23 regime.
24 The quick answer is that, there were fears
25 about the federal definition allowing much faster
28
1 bicycles than 28 miles per hour.
2 So, partially, we created the three-class
3 system to cap the speed somewhere, and so,
4 therefore, it's -- it's -- it's putting it out
5 there.
6 SENATOR LIU: 28.
7 Yeah, I mean, it just seems arbitrary.
8 And 28 is still pretty fast.
9 28 is pretty fast.
10 Very few cyclists would be able to reach
11 28 miles per hour, unless there was a downhill --
12 RANDY NEUFELD: That's correct.
13 It's -- it's -- it's -- it's road-racer
14 level.
15 But, again, you would never -- in the city of
16 New York, you would never likely ride at that kind
17 of speed.
18 You should try one sometime. You know,
19 it's -- it's -- it's hard to get it to 28.
20 SENATOR RAMOS: Yeah, we're going to go ride
21 e-bikes after this.
22 RANDY NEUFELD: Okay. Happy to let you try
23 this one out.
24 SENATOR KENNEDY: Any other questions?
25 SENATOR LIU: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
29
1 RANDY NEUFELD: Thank you.
2 SENATOR KENNEDY: Okay.
3 Randy, thank you very much.
4 RANDY NEUFELD: You're welcome.
5 Next we're going to hear from John Choe, the
6 executive director of the Greater Flushing Chamber
7 of Commerce.
8 And next we have, Li Jihua -- Jinhua.
9 JOHN CHOE: Senator Kennedy, members of the
10 Transportation Committee, thank you for having me
11 here to testify on S.5294.
12 And, Chairman Kennedy, welcome to Flushing.
13 I hope you stay for our great food and cultural
14 venues here. I'd be happy to give you a tour.
15 SENATOR KENNEDY: I got a great cup of coffee
16 over here.
17 JOHN CHOE: We have great coffee as well.
18 The Greater Flushing Chamber of Commerce is a
19 membership association of small-business owners,
20 entrepreneurs, and civic leaders representing the
21 most diverse and dynamic community in the
22 United States.
23 We support the full legalization of
24 micromobility options on public streets, including
25 the introduction of dock-free e-scooters and
30
1 pedal-assist electric bicycles.
2 These micromobility technologies can improve
3 the daily transportation needs of New Yorkers, as
4 well as support local economic development for
5 small-business owners, especially retailers who
6 would benefit from the increased foot traffic
7 generated by these technologies.
8 New York lags behind more than 27 states and
9 more than 100 cities around the world in introducing
10 a full range of micromobility options.
11 Because of this delay, many of our residents
12 and businesses cannot fully take advantage of these
13 new transportation options.
14 Shared bikes are an environmentally friendly
15 and efficient way for people to move around our
16 communities as we try to reduce car traffic.
17 And you probably noticed, driving down from
18 Buffalo, we have huge congestion in downtown
19 Flushing.
20 And, you know, we're the fourth-largest
21 commercial district in New York.
22 We're a regional center of finance,
23 education, health care, and immigrant
24 entrepreneurship, and we're struggling to get people
25 in and out of our community.
31
1 If New York were to fully legalize these new
2 transportation options, e-scooters and e-bikes could
3 become an affordable, reliable, and viable option
4 for New Yorkers who need them the most: low-income
5 residents, low-wage workers, and business owners
6 struggling to make ends meet.
7 Many residents in Queens County do not live
8 within reasonable walking distance of public
9 transportation.
10 Many of these communities tend to be lower
11 income and more diverse than those with easy access
12 to mass transit.
13 The Regional Plan Association found that,
14 roughly, a third of New York City residents do not
15 have a subway stop within walking distance of their
16 homes.
17 The Pratt Center for Community Development
18 concluded that, of the 750,000 New York City
19 residents who travel more than one hour each way to
20 work, quote, two-thirds of them earn less than
21 $35,000 a year.
22 Allowing more shared e-bikes would go a long
23 way to fixing this critical problem. Expanding
24 these options by also allowing electric scooters
25 would go even further.
32
1 The businesses and residents of Flushing,
2 Queens, should be given access to these new,
3 reliable, affordable transportation options.
4 Micromobility can work in New York, and we
5 urge you to pass legislation to authorize
6 micromobility in the Empire State.
7 We would also support additional incentives
8 to encourage worker cooperatives and New York State
9 benefit corporations, and encouraging them to enter
10 this new micromobility industry as a way to maximize
11 the potential community benefits and economic
12 opportunities of this new technology.
13 Thank you.
14 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you.
15 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you very much.
16 [Applause.]
17 SENATOR KENNEDY: So you believe, John, this
18 would be a tremendous boon to businesses in the
19 community?
20 JOHN CHOE: Sorry, I couldn't hear you.
21 SENATOR KENNEDY: You believe this would be a
22 tremendous advantage to businesses in the community?
23 JOHN CHOE: Absolutely.
24 And it's happening in other cities, in
25 Europe, and elsewhere.
33
1 We want some of those advantages.
2 Our retailers are struggling, and we see this
3 as part of the solution.
4 SENATOR KENNEDY: And is there a preference,
5 or do you feel strongly that both should be enacted,
6 both e-bikes and e-scooters?
7 JOHN CHOE: You know, I think e-scooters are
8 a new technology that a lot of people don't know
9 about.
10 And we would love to have a demonstration
11 project in our community just to see how it would
12 work before it's fully implemented.
13 SENATOR KENNEDY: So -- so you're here
14 specifically on e-bikes?
15 JOHN CHOE: Well, I support both.
16 SENATOR KENNEDY: As a supporter
17 (indiscernible cross-talking)?
18 JOHN CHOE: We support both.
19 But I'm just saying, in terms of familiarity
20 and information out there in the community, people
21 are more familiar with e-bikes.
22 A lot of the workers here who deliver things
23 use e-bikes.
24 SENATOR KENNEDY: That's wonderful.
25 Thank you for your testimony.
34
1 JOHN CHOE: You're welcome.
2 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you.
3 Oh, John?
4 SENATOR KENNEDY: John?
5 Senator Liu, I hear you may know Senator Liu.
6 SENATOR RAMOS: You guys may know each other.
7 SENATOR LIU: I've been waiting for this
8 opportunity for 20 years.
9 [Laughter.]
10 SENATOR LIU: How much time do I have,
11 Mr. Chairman?
12 SENATOR KENNEDY: All day.
13 SENATOR RAMOS: You have five minutes.
14 SENATOR KENNEDY: All day.
15 SENATOR RAMOS: 3 minutes and 44 seconds.
16 SENATOR KENNEDY: For those of you who are
17 unaware, John Choe, I was just informed, for many
18 years, was Senator John Liu's chief of staff in the
19 city council.
20 So they have a --
21 SENATOR LIU: I call him J.C.
22 SENATOR KENNEDY: -- quite a history.
23 JOHN CHOE: Yes, and I survived.
24 SENATOR RAMOS: But you're J.C.
25 SENATOR LIU: No, I'm J.L.
35
1 SENATOR RAMOS: No, you're John C. Liu.
2 SENATOR KENNEDY: So, Senator Liu, any
3 questions?
4 SENATOR LIU: I do.
5 When are you going to get off your tuchas and
6 get on a bike?
7 JOHN CHOE: Senator, I ride my bike every
8 day.
9 SENATOR LIU: Every day, there you go.
10 How many miles now?
11 JOHN CHOE: Well, it's two miles a day.
12 I believe I'm probably the only chamber
13 executive in New York that rides a bike every day.
14 [Applause.]
15 SENATOR LIU: Mr. Chairman, it looks like
16 he shut me up.
17 SENATOR KENNEDY: You rest your case.
18 Mr. Choe, thank you very much.
19 JOHN CHOE: Thank you.
20 SENATOR KENNEDY: Continue the wonderful work
21 that you're doing.
22 JOHN CHOE: Thank you very much.
23 SENATOR RAMOS: Thanks, John.
24 [Applause.]
25
36
1 SENATOR KENNEDY: Next we'll hear from
2 Li Jinhua;
3 Followed by Council Member Rafael Espinal.
4 Good morning.
5 LI JINHUA: (Translated) Good morning.
6 THE TRANSLATOR: Good morning.
7 Li Jinhua also brought his wife --
8 SENATOR KENNEDY: Wonderful.
9 THE TRANSLATOR: -- Xiaoming Feng (ph.), also
10 testimony.
11 LI JINHUA: (Giving full testimony in foreign
12 language.)
13 [Applause.]
14 THE TRANSLATOR: I will start translate.
15 (Full testimony of Li Jinhua translated to
16 English, as follows:)
17 LI JINHUA: My name is Li Jinhua.
18 I'm 68 years old. I have been delivery
19 worker for more than 20 years.
20 I was a delivery worker who had to retire due
21 to injuries.
22 Many years ago I was knocked down by a
23 suddenly-opened car door on the way to deliver food.
24 At that time, because I was a new immigrant
25 and did not understand the law in English, I was
37
1 afraid to call the police and do not go to -- and
2 did not go to the hospital.
3 Many years later this injuries of
4 hyperosteogeny and cervical vertebrae hypoplasia
5 caused me to be disabled and I'm unable to work
6 anymore.
7 I start collect money from SSI since 2019.
8 I only live on disable allowance of $800 per
9 month.
10 After retirement, riding e-bike is still an
11 important means of transportation for me.
12 Without e-bike, I would have difficulty in
13 seeing doctors.
14 Last year, when I was riding my e-bike on
15 19th Street -- on 3rd Avenue and 19th Street,
16 a police stopped me, gave me $500 tickets.
17 And 20 days later, the same police stopped me
18 on the 1st Avenue and gave me another $500 tickets
19 and confiscated my bike.
20 I went to court for that -- for that ticket,
21 and judge said -- I told the judge I was -- I'm
22 disabled. E-bike is the only way I can get around
23 city.
24 The judge said, You cannot ride your kind of
25 e-bike. You have to ride on other kind of e-bike.
38
1 I don't understand what he mean.
2 We delivery workers, no matter how hot it is
3 in the summer, we work at the hottest temperature to
4 deliver food to New York City customers.
5 No matter how cold it is in the winter, we
6 also ride to deliver hot meals to New Yorkers.
7 Delivery workers at my age, in their late
8 50s or 60s, have a lot, all kinds of injuries.
9 Without e-bike, our physical condition would
10 not allow us to cycle for 10 hours a day.
11 We also can't afford to buy car and
12 motorcycle, as our mayor said once.
13 New York has a population of millions, and
14 everyone has experience of ordering takeout.
15 In order to better serve the city of
16 New York, we request the New York State government
17 to legalize electricity bikes.
18 For us to survive, e-bike must be legalized.
19 [Applause.]
20 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you very much.
21 Thank you, sir.
22 LI JINHUA: Thank you.
23 SENATOR KENNEDY: Okay.
24 Wonderful.
25 We will have -- your wife would like to say a
39
1 few words?
2 That's quite all right.
3 XIAOMING FENG (ph.): (Giving full testimony
4 in foreign language.)
5 [Applause.]
6 (Full testimony of Xiaoming Feng
7 translated to English, as follows:)
8 XIAOMING FENG (ph.): My name is
9 Xiaoming Feng.
10 I'm with my husband, Li Jinhua, who used to
11 be a delivery worker.
12 As a wife of a delivery worker, I want to
13 tell you our personal experience today.
14 He used to deliver food regardless of wind,
15 rain, snow.
16 He worked hard every day, and many times in
17 dangerous conditions too.
18 He braved the wind and snow to deliver food
19 for customers, but when he got home, he was all wet
20 like a drowned rat. I have to wash his clothes over
21 and over.
22 He was robbed twice, or three times, and when
23 he came home, his body still had black-and-blue
24 bruises.
25 I have to give him massage, I have to take
40
1 care of him. I left -- I felt very sad when I look
2 at his injuries.
3 Last June my husband had to retire due to
4 disability caused by work injuries. There are so
5 many injuries, I feel pain for him.
6 We live on his monthly disable allowance.
7 He's dis -- even though he is disabled, but
8 he still ride his e-bike, and the police continue to
9 give him two $500 tickets.
10 For us, we only have $800 disable allowance
11 every month.
12 With two tickets, which is $1,000 for us, is
13 more than our monthly income.
14 I wish I could express my feeling more.
15 I implore the official to give us a way to
16 live.
17 [Applause.]
18 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you.
19 Thank you very much, both, for your
20 testimony. It's very important.
21 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you.
22 LI JINHUA: Thank you.
23 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you, sir.
24 Next we're going hear from Council Member
25 Rafael Espinal.
41
1 Councilman.
2 RAFAEL L. ESPINAL, JR.: Thank you.
3 [Applause.]
4 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you for joining us
5 today.
6 RAFAEL L. ESPINAL, JR.: Thank you, Senators.
7 Thank you for having me.
8 Senator Kennedy, Senator Ramos, Senator Liu,
9 it's great to be here advocating on behalf of the
10 legalization of e-bikes and e-scooters.
11 I can't speak to the technical aspects of
12 these bikes and scooters, I can't speak to the
13 experiences of the riders, but I can speak to the
14 desire from many of my colleagues across all five
15 boroughs that want to see this legalized on a state
16 level.
17 We actually wrote a letter, 16 members have
18 signed on, two state legislators.
19 So I'm just going to read this, and then
20 offer a few other words.
21 "As your colleagues in the city council
22 representing all five boroughs, we ask for your
23 support of A.7431 and S.5294, to legalize e-bikes
24 and e-scooters.
25 "This legislation directly combats our city's
42
1 faltering public transportation system while
2 defending the rights of immigrant workers.
3 "There are over 50,000 delivery workers
4 throughout New York City, many of whom are
5 immigrant, working long hours to provide for their
6 families.
7 "While consumers and businesses benefit from
8 the growth of this industry, delivery workers are
9 unjustly targeted with burdensome fines and
10 confiscation that could cost them their jobs.
11 "We support legalizing e-bikes because we
12 believe, in New York City, that New York City must
13 live up to its duty as a sanctuary city for
14 immigrants and a fair city for its workers.
15 "Electric scooters are an essential tool to
16 reducing congestion and improving our air quality.
17 "While we work hard to improve our public
18 transportation system, we also need to support
19 alternative modes of transportation to assist those
20 that live in transit deserts.
21 "We should be following the examples of
22 dozens of cities and states that have already
23 successfully introduced these devices to their
24 streets.
25 "Together, e-bikes and scooters will deliver
43
1 justice to targeted workers and transit options to
2 underserved communities.
3 "We hope will you support this legislation,
4 and look forward to seeing its positive impacts on
5 our city."
6 So, thank you; appreciate it.
7 SENATOR KENNEDY: Wonderful.
8 Thank you, Councilman.
9 [Applause.]
10 SENATOR KENNEDY: Any questions?
11 I do, I do have a question.
12 And just before I ask my question, I just
13 want to give our next speaker a heads-up.
14 Mitch LaRosa will be our next speaker, from
15 Mobility Development Partners.
16 But, Councilman Espinal, thank you very much
17 for your testimony.
18 It's very important to know that the City is
19 buying into this, as well, and that there are
20 16 council members that are supportive of this
21 initiative.
22 I think one of the issues we have found in
23 Albany is that there is a disparity in support among
24 our colleagues, depending on what borough they
25 reside in --
44
1 RAFAEL L. ESPINAL, JR.: Right.
2 SENATOR KENNEDY: -- and what borough they
3 represent.
4 For example, there seems to be more pushback
5 coming from my colleagues, our colleagues, that
6 represent Manhattan, because of the congestion, both
7 vehicular, pedestrian, cyclist, and so there is a
8 little bit of concern in that regard.
9 If this bill passes, do you believe that the
10 implementation of the council will be able to take
11 that into consideration, different boroughs, and the
12 ability for different boroughs to opt in, or do you
13 believe that it would have to be a cart blanche?
14 RAFAEL L. ESPINAL, JR.: I think when it
15 comes to the e-bikes, we should be careful where we
16 limit where they're able to ride.
17 I think that, when it comes to e-bikes, it
18 should be blanket across five boroughs.
19 And I think there are some folks -- some of
20 our folks in government who are a little
21 hypocritical on the issue.
22 There are photos of delivery drivers on their
23 e-bikes delivering to Gracie Mansion.
24 There are photos of delivery drivers
25 delivering to the local police precinct.
45
1 So we all depend on the e-bikes and the
2 workers who are delivering the food. Right?
3 But when it comes to the scooters, I think we
4 can have a broader conversation of what that looks
5 like, how do we implement scooters where they're
6 actually needed?
7 You know, I recently came from a trip in
8 Paris. I saw Lime bikes and Birds spread across the
9 city.
10 And I have to say that, you know, there's
11 a -- I think there's a stigma, or this conversation
12 around, that only the elites will be using the
13 scooters.
14 But I saw people of all classes, actually,
15 using e-scooters to get around.
16 So, I think that we should dig deeper into
17 that conversation.
18 With scooters, yes, we can take a bigger
19 approach.
20 One of our bills is actually to install, to
21 create a pilot program, to have a slow
22 implementation of these scooters to see if it
23 actually works on a city.
24 When it comes to the e-bikes, we want to see
25 it across all five boroughs.
46
1 SENATOR KENNEDY: Councilman, thank you very
2 much.
3 RAFAEL L. ESPINAL, JR.: Thank you,
4 appreciate it.
5 SENATOR KENNEDY: Your input is so important.
6 Senator Ramos has a question.
7 SENATOR RAMOS: Where would the pilot program
8 be implemented?
9 RAFAEL L. ESPINAL, JR.: So, currently, the
10 way the bill is drafted, it targets neighborhoods
11 that have a lack of transit options.
12 It also mentions the L-Train line, where we
13 are all aware, the L-Train might be -- well, the
14 L-Train is not closing anymore, but, at some point
15 it was supposed to be closed. But, it does have
16 limited service as of now. I think that that is
17 still an option.
18 But we're targeting neighborhoods that
19 actually need an increase in transportation options.
20 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you.
21 And can you tell us a little bit about your
22 pedal-assist conversion bill?
23 RAFAEL L. ESPINAL, JR.: Right.
24 So while one of the bills looks to help
25 legalize these bikes, the second bill is actually a
47
1 bill that would require the Department of
2 Transportation (DOT) to create a program that would
3 help those using throttle bikes to be converted into
4 pedal-assist bikes.
5 I think a lot of the concerns we're hearing
6 is how throttle bikes reach top speed without any
7 assist of the pedals.
8 This would allow for those bikes to be
9 converted, and we all believe will create a safer
10 option for workers, and pedestrians as well.
11 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you, Councilman.
12 SENATOR KENNEDY: Great.
13 Senator Liu.
14 SENATOR LIU: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
15 So how would we help people, particularly
16 workers, convert their -- or, basically, it's
17 probably not convert. Right?
18 It's more like exchange; exchange their
19 throttle bikes for pedal-assist?
20 RAFAEL L. ESPINAL, JR.: Well, to my
21 knowledge, and speaking with advocates and experts
22 in the field, there is technology out there that
23 exists, that would allow for throttles to be changed
24 into pedal-assist.
25 So the funding would be used for their
48
1 existing bikes to be converted, so there will be no
2 real exchange.
3 SENATOR LIU: And where would that -- would
4 that -- are you ready to cough up some City funding
5 for that?
6 RAFAEL L. ESPINAL, JR.: Absolutely,
7 absolutely.
8 I mean, the State can always help, but we're
9 looking to take this on on our own.
10 If the City -- and, actually, if the State
11 does not push these bills, I look forward to
12 continuing to having this conversation on a City
13 level and see if there's something we can do.
14 But I think the cleanest and the best way to
15 do this is to have the State finally draft language
16 that's going to classify these bicycles.
17 SENATOR LIU: Thank you, Council Member.
18 RAFAEL L. ESPINAL, JR.: Thank you.
19 Thank you; a pleasure.
20 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you again,
21 Councilman.
22 RAFAEL L. ESPINAL, JR.: Appreciate it.
23 [Applause.]
24 SENATOR KENNEDY: Next we're going to hear
25 from Mitch LaRosa from Mobility Development
49
1 Partners;
2 Followed by Jackie Jiang, a delivery worker.
3 Good morning.
4 MITCH LaROSA: Good morning, Senators.
5 Chairman Kennedy, Senators Ramos and Liu,
6 thank you so much for having us today on such an
7 important issue in our transportation landscape.
8 My name is Mitch LaRosa. I'm the program
9 director with Mobility Development Partners.
10 We are a consultant that works with
11 shared-use transportation through a social equity
12 focus.
13 We act as a liaison for communities, groups,
14 municipalities, and other transportation-related
15 agencies, to provide work and shared-use
16 transportation as liaison to the industry at large.
17 Our partner network stretches from southern
18 California to Upstate New York, and our work is
19 concentrated mostly on small and mid-sized cities.
20 Our work over the past decade has spanned the
21 shared-mobility spectrum. It includes bike-sharing,
22 car-sharing, volunteer transportation, ride-sharing,
23 etc.
24 We work to take transportation concepts, from
25 research, through piloting, business planning, and
50
1 into full operations.
2 We have offices across the country, including
3 Buffalo, where I am based, and our work has expanded
4 everywhere, from all across Upstate New York through
5 the midwest and the West Coast as well.
6 We have an understanding of the
7 transportation landscape and how it relates to the
8 broader state policy and local level.
9 Ultimately, our primary goal is to launch and
10 grow community mobility systems.
11 I'm here today in general support of electric
12 bikes and scooters.
13 These technologies are what we term
14 "electro-micromobility," or "EMM" for short.
15 EMM technologies have the potential to
16 revolutionize the way we get around our cities, by
17 reducing our dependence on automobiles, curtailing
18 greenhouse gas emissions, and working to accelerate
19 transit as well.
20 However, I'm not here to reject or support
21 any specific legislation on these issues; rather,
22 I'm here to educate and share our experience as a
23 company that has researched, planned, and operated
24 these systems.
25 The three main topics I would like to discuss
51
1 today with all of you are, the policy differences
2 between e-bikes and e-scooters, local oversight of
3 these systems, and the impacts of shared
4 micromobility systems.
5 Firstly, legislation proposed in Albany thus
6 far has, essentially, designated e-bikes and
7 e-scooters the same.
8 Just because "electric" is in the name does
9 not mean these technologies are the same thing.
10 E-bikes generally are pedal-assist; meaning,
11 if you ride an e-bike, the electric motor helps you
12 with riding. Think of having a slight breeze at
13 your back to accelerate this.
14 On the opposite end, electric scooters are
15 throttle-assist, making them more like a moped than
16 anything else.
17 With such clear differences between e-bikes
18 and e-scooters, and the riding experience being this
19 way, it makes sense that we think about these
20 technologies differently.
21 The fact that riders are oftentimes unclear
22 on where they should be riding e-scooters, either on
23 sidewalks, the street, or in the roadway, does not
24 help the situation.
25 Bikes have a demarcated place in our streets.
52
1 Drivers are familiar with their presence
2 there, and there are established rules on how to
3 ride this way.
4 There is also existing infrastructure, like
5 bike lanes, bike paths, and multi-use paths, that
6 establish rules on how to ride, and, as well as
7 street signage, parking, and other supporting
8 infrastructure for e-bicycles.
9 This is a major public-safety issue with
10 scooters:
11 For example, since 2013, the City Bike
12 Program, there has been only one death in
13 seven years, and one year of e-scooter users alone
14 in New York City, there's been two public deaths.
15 So, in support of this, the Centers for
16 Disease Control has studied Austin, Texas's, usage,
17 where there has been many accidents in this, over a
18 third coming from new users, some of whom cannot
19 handle the initial acceleration of scooters, and
20 most of whom do not wear helmets during its usage.
21 Another important piece to consider regarding
22 EMM systems is input on the local level.
23 New York State is made up of a diverse set of
24 communities.
25 We know what works here in the city might not
53
1 work in places like Binghamton or Watertown or
2 Utica.
3 It's important to allow municipalities to
4 control the way these shared systems can operate in
5 their communities, providing local oversight, and
6 working with operators.
7 A good example of this is Portland, Oregon,
8 where the City itself has worked with shared-scooter
9 operators to fund education and outreach programs.
10 This is not mandated by the State of Oregon,
11 but, rather, something that the City worked with on
12 its own to create a more sustainable, inclusive
13 system.
14 And, finally, I would like to discuss the
15 positive impacts of shared-use electric
16 micromobility systems.
17 Shared mobility systems are the future of
18 transportation, and with proper planning and
19 coordination, electric micromobility can be a part
20 of this future as well.
21 As studies have shown, over the last
22 two years of EMM launches, electric micromobility of
23 scooters- and e-bike-shared systems can offer a new
24 way for disadvantaged communities to get around.
25 A study in Washington, D.C., found that the
54
1 EMM systems there have given the
2 transportation-disadvantaged communities, so, places
3 not served by existing metro transportation options
4 or the existing bike-sharing system, a new mobility
5 option for them to add into a way that they can get
6 around efficiently without using their own cars.
7 EMM systems and a shared-use also offer these
8 low-income communities a way to experience these
9 programs without having to personally own them.
10 As many people have talked about today, the
11 cost of e-bikes and e-scooters can be prohibitive
12 sometimes.
13 Using them in a shared-use program with a
14 small use cost can be a way to have more public
15 acceptance and public awareness of these programs,
16 that can allow them to be used in a more
17 cost-efficient way.
18 Additionally, these can be inclusive as well.
19 We've done studies with the National Aging
20 and Disability Transportation Program, part of the
21 federal Transit Administration, that has shown that
22 e-bikes can be an effective way for people with
23 disabilities and other older adults to get around,
24 by biking longer, farther, and with more pace.
25 There's many things to consider here, but, by
55
1 and large, we know that e-scooters and e-bikes are
2 different technologies, but there's a lot of
3 potential for these technologies to be used in
4 shared systems, especially in small and mid-sized
5 cities across the New York State.
6 Thank you very much for your time.
7 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you, Mitch.
8 And it is great to see a fellow Buffalonian
9 in the house here in Queens.
10 [Laughter.]
11 SENATOR RAMOS: We found one.
12 SENATOR KENNEDY: We found one.
13 Anybody else?
14 But you're all Buffalo Bills fans. Right?
15 No Buffalo Bills fans?
16 SENATOR LIU: The only (indiscernible
17 cross-talking).
18 MITCH LaROSA: That's correct.
19 SENATOR KENNEDY: Buffalo Sabers?
20 All right, I got one friend back there.
21 All right.
22 Let's go Bills.
23 Thank you, Mitch.
24 MITCH LaROSA: No problem.
25
56
1 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you for your
2 testimony, and thank you for your leadership.
3 And Senator Ramos has a question.
4 SENATOR RAMOS: Yeah, hi, Mitch.
5 Can you speak a little bit about how e-bikes
6 and e-scooters serve different transportation needs
7 across different regions in the state?
8 MITCH LaROSA: Sure.
9 So, at present, we don't have any
10 fully-legalized e-bike or e-scooter shared systems.
11 We've done pilot testing in New York City
12 with City Bikes Program. We've seen that.
13 And there's been a push, certainly, amongst
14 operators to be involved in these markets.
15 In our experience, generally, when we look at
16 new technologies, we see them as a great
17 opportunity, but it's also important to do pilot
18 projects, demonstration projects, research, so we
19 know that -- how these things work.
20 E-bikes and e-scooters are a little
21 different.
22 So we know how e-bikes can affect and work
23 with the existing bicycle infrastructure, where
24 e-scooters are a whole new technology, both of which
25 act as an on-street-level way for people to get
57
1 around.
2 It can be a first-/last-mile connection to
3 transit.
4 It can help increase people's personal
5 mobility as well.
6 But the differences in operation of them are
7 also complete, where e-bikes will lock to something.
8 Scooters, on the other hand, in their present
9 iteration in shared forms, don't lock to anything,
10 so they can be thrown around the sidewalk, creating
11 barriers for folks with mobility impairments, and
12 things like that.
13 So they serve a same general target
14 population as an extension of existing shared
15 systems and public transit, but their individual
16 operations and systems can be different, just based
17 on the fact that they're just not the same thing to
18 use.
19 SENATOR KENNEDY: Senator Liu.
20 SENATOR LIU: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
21 Thanks for your interesting testimony, Mitch.
22 What -- are there any other EMM technologies
23 that are on their way?
24 MITCH LaROSA: You know, the industry is
25 changing all the time, and sometimes it seems very
58
1 conventional.
2 So we know what e-bikes and e-scooters are,
3 but there's a lot of exploration in this field that
4 is even beyond our own scope.
5 Someone sent me an article yesterday about
6 electric pogo sticks.
7 Is that EMM? Probably not.
8 But, there's a lot of development of
9 technologies that will accelerate this.
10 I can't speak to that. We're not really a
11 transportation operator in that way. We act as more
12 of a liaison.
13 SENATOR LIU: Electric-assist pogo sticks?
14 MITCH LaROSA: I'm serious, yes.
15 SENATOR LIU: What about electric unicycles?
16 SENATOR RAMOS: There are electric
17 (inaudible).
18 MITCH LaROSA: There are, yes.
19 SENATOR RAMOS: That's a thing.
20 (Indiscernible.)
21 MITCH LaROSA: If you -- I've seen plenty of
22 folks. It's one big tire you stand on, and it takes
23 you down the street.
24 So we don't know where the industry is going
25 to go, but this is an important crossroads for this.
59
1 If we are able to define EMM correctly now,
2 and take the lessons that we can learn from two
3 years of full EMM launches across the nation,
4 New York has not, you know, taken that step forward,
5 but there's a lot of best-practice miles to be
6 learned from.
7 We know how these can work in cities.
8 It's important we take the time to learn all
9 this, and then, also, let the municipalities
10 themselves learn.
11 We know that, you know, the experiences of
12 New York in this may be more similar to larger
13 cities across the country.
14 But smaller upstate cities can certainly take
15 their lessons from college towns and other places in
16 the midwest that have seen this.
17 SENATOR LIU: Does your organization have any
18 studies on, like, e-skateboards?
19 MITCH LaROSA: Not presently, no.
20 SENATOR LIU: No. Okay.
21 MITCH LaROSA: But they are out there.
22 SENATOR LIU: Thank you.
23 MITCH LaROSA: No problem.
24 SENATOR LIU: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
25 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you very much, and we
60
1 appreciate your leadership.
2 You're located at the Innovation Center in
3 Buffalo; correct?
4 MITCH LaROSA: I am, yes.
5 SENATOR KENNEDY: On the Buffalo-Niagara
6 Medical Campus --
7 MITCH LaROSA: Absolutely.
8 SENATOR KENNEDY: -- a burgeoning campus
9 right in the heart of my district?
10 MITCH LaROSA: Yes, that's right.
11 [Laughter.]
12 MITCH LaROSA: Buffalo is a great place,
13 everyone.
14 SENATOR KENNEDY: I am -- I'm very pleased
15 that you're here and giving this testimony.
16 I think it's very important to hear from all
17 areas of the state.
18 Thank you so much, Mitch.
19 MITCH LaROSA: Thank you, Chairman.
20 SENATOR KENNEDY: Next we're going to hear
21 from Jackie Jiang, delivery worker;
22 Followed by Connie Fishman, the executive
23 director of Hudson River Park Friends, and
24 Nick Rotundi, senior VP of Operations and Facilities
25 at Hudson River Park Trust.
61
1 Jackie Jiang, good morning.
2 JACKIE JIANG: (Translated) Good morning.
3 (Giving full testimony in foreign language.)
4 [Applause.]
5 (Full testimony of Jackie Jiang translated
6 to English, as follows:)
7 JACKIE JIANG: My name is Jackie Jiang, and
8 I'm 60 -- 46 years old.
9 I have been work as a delivery worker for
10 15 years. I have been delivering food in
11 Midtown Manhattan with my electricity bike for last
12 6 years.
13 I did decided to use an e-bike, mainly
14 because the quality of e-bikes is way better than
15 the regular bikes, and, also, e-bikes save us time
16 and energy.
17 No matter if the weather is windy or snowy,
18 as long as there is electricity bike, we can let the
19 customers eat fresh food on time.
20 Food delivery is a relatively difficult
21 industry.
22 I work 10 hours a day and deliver about
23 50 orders daily.
24 I'm not only paying attention to the traffic
25 safety on the road, but also have to pay attention
62
1 to prevent the police from cracking down on me when
2 deliver food.
3 I have to change my route often and to any
4 direction to avoid the police.
5 This increase the potential safety hazard for
6 us and the pedestrians.
7 Always, the police gave us a $500 tickets for
8 riding on the e-bike, and sometimes they confiscate
9 the electricity bicycle as well.
10 You'd never think that I feed my family by
11 delivering food.
12 A fine of $500 means I have to lost -- means
13 I have lost a week's income.
14 An E-bike is my only survival tool.
15 Every time my e-bike is confiscate, I lost
16 about three days of work, and sometimes it even
17 costs me to spend another 1800 to buy a new bike --
18 new e-bike.
19 Faced with these situation, many of my
20 delivery-worker friends have switched to other jobs.
21 Some of them have to be unemployed and home, and
22 they are forced to apply government welfare
23 assistance.
24 Some elderly delivery workers have to retire
25 and live on a government aid.
63
1 Electricity bike is most -- is the most
2 convenient, time-saving, and labor-saving
3 transportation for delivery workers in
4 New York City.
5 An electricity bike is only a mean of
6 transportation, and there is nothing unsafe or
7 illegal.
8 Most of the people who deliver food are Asian
9 and South American new immigrants. Our own work
10 already lack many kinds of safety and health
11 protections.
12 We just want to support our family through
13 our hard work.
14 We hope that our work can be protected by
15 law.
16 New York City is portrayed as the world's
17 most free and equal city, but in reality, I feel
18 that we are being treated unequally, and have been
19 severely oppressed by the government and the police.
20 We appeal to you, that we want equal
21 equality, and we want to legalize electricity
22 bicycles in New York State.
23 Thank you.
24 [Applause.]
25
64
1 SENATOR RAMOS: I have a question.
2 SENATOR KENNEDY: We have a question from
3 Senator Ramos.
4 SENATOR RAMOS: Can you ask Jackie if he's
5 ever performed delivery work using a regular
6 bicycle.
7 THE TRANSLATOR: Okay.
8 (Translation from and to English.)
9 THE TRANSLATOR: So before six years -- he
10 have been delivery for 15 years.
11 I believe the first eight years he was using
12 regular bike.
13 SENATOR RAMOS: So can he speak to, I guess,
14 the moment where he decided to upgrade to an e-bike,
15 why he decided to do so?
16 I imagine, perhaps, there were pressures of
17 the job, comfort issues.
18 Can he speak to why he decided to start using
19 an e-bike instead?
20 Why it was worth saving up for one?
21 And how the work has changed because he is
22 using one now?
23 (Translation from and to English by
24 translator.)
25 THE TRANSLATOR: Mr. Jiang just said, he
65
1 decided to use an e-bike, is because it's much safer
2 and save a lot of time.
3 He mentioned, e-bike have much great quality
4 brake system rather than regular bike.
5 So the e-bike brake system is air-pressed --
6 air-pressed brake system is similar as motorcycle,
7 so it definitely give them much safer protection
8 during their work.
9 And also he mentioned to switch e-bike
10 because his body face a lot of stress from daily
11 work. Like, pedal on the street for 10 hours is a
12 lot of work for his body.
13 So, again, he mentioned getting older, and
14 with e-bike -- with help from e-bike is necessary.
15 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you.
16 JACKIE JIANG: Thank you.
17 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you so much, Jackie.
18 [Applause.]
19 SENATOR KENNEDY: Next we will hear from
20 Connie Fishman and Nick Rotundi, the executive
21 director and the senior VP of operations and
22 facilities at Hudson River Park Friends and Hudson
23 River Park Trust.
24 Following their testimony we will hear from
25 Dequan Lu, a delivery worker.
66
1 Thank you.
2 Good morning.
3 CONNIE FISHMAN: Good morning.
4 NICK ROTUNDI: Good morning.
5 SENATOR RAMOS: Good morning.
6 CONNIE FISHMAN: My name is Connie Fishman.
7 I'm executive director of Hudson River Park
8 Friends, and, also, the past president of the
9 Hudson River Park Trust, where I worked from 1999
10 when the park was created, to 2011.
11 Friends is the designated advocacy and
12 fundraising partner for Hudson River Park, and I'm
13 here to ask that the Hudson River Greenway be carved
14 out of State Bill S.5294, allowing municipalities in
15 New York State to legislate electric bikes and
16 scooters.
17 The Greenway is owned by New York State
18 Department of Transportation, and it's maintained by
19 Hudson River Park.
20 It was the first dedicated recreational
21 bikeway and walkway in New York City, built in the
22 mid- to late '90s as part of the reconstruction of
23 Route 9-A.
24 It was built with federal funds as a
25 multi-user pedestrian and bicycle facility for
67
1 bikers, walkers, and skaters, and has never allowed
2 either motorized vehicles or commercial vehicles on
3 it. It is not a street.
4 Hudson River Greenway runs adjacent to the
5 4 1/2-mile Hudson River Park.
6 The park is adjacent to the neighborhoods of
7 Lower Manhattan, Tribeca, Hudson Square,
8 Greenwich Village, Chelsea, Hudson Yards,
9 West Midtown, Hells Kitchen, and Clinton, which are
10 all directly across the highway.
11 As a multi-user recreational facility, the
12 Hudson River Greenway is shared by cyclists,
13 skaters, pedestrians, commuters, day-trippers,
14 joggers, roller-bladers, sightseers, and tourists,
15 children coming to and from after-school and camp
16 programs, parents teaching their kids to ride bikes
17 or learn to skateboard, and organized youth-sports
18 league participants, as well as users of the many
19 playgrounds and leisure spaces in the park.
20 Although the Greenway has lights and signage
21 for pedestrians, indicating right-of-ways that were
22 installed by New York and city and state DOTs,
23 many bike riders do not stop at the red lights and
24 are known to run into both people and other
25 cyclists, and also cars and buses that cross the
68
1 bikeway to reach facilities within the park.
2 Adding electric bikes and e-scooters to this
3 already complicated and crowded mix of pedestrians
4 and human-powered vehicles will make it even more
5 dangerous for the 17 million annual park visitors.
6 Enforcement against motorized vehicles is
7 very difficult.
8 Our park-enforcement police officers are on
9 foot and can't safely chase down motorized vehicles
10 without endangering themselves or other Greenway
11 users.
12 The bikeway is quite narrow. There is not
13 room for two bikes to ride abreast. They have to
14 ride single-file. And it is particularly crowded at
15 intersections, necessitating that bikers not only
16 ride single-file, but, in some cases, they attempt
17 to pass each other by riding into the oncoming lane
18 as a way of getting around slower walkers who are in
19 the area.
20 Traveling on the greenway was also made more
21 difficult on October 31, 2017, with the terrorist
22 attack on the New York State bikeway.
23 At that time, New York State's
24 Counterterrorism Unit, Department of Homeland
25 Security, and the New York State Department of
69
1 Transportation mandated the installation of metal
2 bollards at every intersection, which are spaced
3 only 48 inches apart from one other.
4 This has made even walking and biking
5 side-by-side almost impossible.
6 And just keeping up with the conflicts that
7 occur, because of the bollards, is already a major
8 safety concern.
9 In addition, the park has seen an increase of
10 accidents because of the expansion of programs like
11 City Bike.
12 And as a result, Manhattan Community
13 Boards 1, 2, and 4, and the Hudson River Park
14 Advisory Council, have all requested, and passed
15 resolutions, asking New York City Council to forbid
16 e-bikes and e-scooters on the Hudson River Greenway,
17 which is exclusively a recreational bikeway and
18 walkway.
19 To preserve the safety of the park community,
20 we request that you carve out the Hudson River
21 Greenway from State Bill S.5294.
22 Thank you for consideration of our request.
23 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you, Connie.
24 Nick.
25 NICK ROTUNDI: Senator Kennedy,
70
1 Senator Ramos, Senator Liu.
2 My name is Nick Rotundi. I'm the senior
3 vice president of operations and facilities of the
4 Hudson River Park Trust.
5 I'm here to request that the Hudson River
6 Greenway be carved out of State Bill S.5294, which
7 would allow local municipalities to legislate
8 electric bikes and scooters.
9 The Hudson River Greenway, which is owned by
10 New York State Department of Transportation, yet
11 maintained by the Hudson River Park Trust, is the
12 busiest bike lane in the country.
13 It is also the gateway to the 4 1/2-mile
14 Hudson River Park, which is the second-busiest park
15 in Manhattan, with over 14 million visits annually.
16 The Greenway is used by commuters and
17 recreational users alike, including many tourists
18 who are sightseeing, children getting to and from
19 after-school activities, parents who are teaching
20 their kids to bike, and joggers and pedestrians who
21 are currently allowed to use the bikeway under
22 existing New York State DOT funding agreements.
23 In addition, since there are many commercial,
24 maritime, and municipal uses located west of the
25 Greenway, such as the New York City Ferry Terminal,
71
1 a sanitation department marine transfer facility,
2 the fire department's Marine 1, the Intrepid Museum,
3 Circle Line, Hornblower, and the passenger ship
4 terminal, many vehicles and pedestrians regularly
5 cross the bikeway at dozens of locations along its
6 length.
7 Although the Greenway has lights and signage
8 installed by New York City and New York State DOT,
9 many bike riders do not stop at red lights and often
10 run into other cars -- run into cars and buses.
11 There are also several accidents between
12 bikers and pedestrians, two which occurred just last
13 week.
14 The City just announced increased ferry
15 service in the park in 2020, which will result in
16 far more people using both the bikeway and more
17 vehicles crossing the bike path.
18 Adding electric vehicles to this already
19 complicated and crowded condition will make it more
20 dangerous.
21 The trust already has significant negative
22 experience with electric scooters and bikes because,
23 for the past several years, we and the public have
24 seen an increasing number riding on the Greenway
25 even though they are currently illegal.
72
1 Even with the current prohibitions,
2 enforcement against these e-vehicles has been
3 exceedingly challenging for a variety of reasons.
4 First, park-enforcement police officers are
5 mostly on foot and cannot safely chase these
6 bicycles or scooters without endangering themselves
7 or other Greenway users.
8 Second, the bikeway is already narrow,
9 without adequate room for bicycles to pass each
10 other safely when it is crowded, which is almost
11 always the case in good weather.
12 Introducing more bicycles and scooters
13 traveling at higher speeds to this already narrow
14 and crowded area seems destined to create more
15 accidents.
16 Traveling on the Greenway has been made more
17 difficult and restrictive recently with the State's
18 continued installation of metal bollards at every
19 intersection. They're spaced only 48 inches apart
20 from each other.
21 The bollard installation is the result of the
22 unfortunate terrorist attack on October 31, 2017,
23 and has been mandated by NYPD's Counterterrorism,
24 New York State Department of Homeland Security, and
25 the New York State Department of Transportation.
73
1 Motorized vehicles hitting these bollards are
2 another major safety concern.
3 The trust has seen an increase in accidents
4 on the bikeway and park because of general expansion
5 of cyclists throughout the city, due to programs
6 like City Bike, but also because bikers, traveling
7 at higher speeds, are increasingly trying to
8 maneuver around these fixed bollards, and to get
9 around them -- to get around those bollards are
10 more -- and to get around other cyclists who are
11 traveling at a more leisurely pace.
12 The result, is that many are traveling in the
13 opposite traffic lanes leading to additional
14 accidents.
15 The trust has a limited number of
16 park-enforcement police whose primary mission is to
17 patrol the park.
18 At times, they monitor activity on the
19 state's greenway.
20 From January through May of this year, our
21 park-enforcement police have written 87 summonses
22 for violations of rendering the park unsafe.
23 This means the e-vehicle was either
24 traveling too fast or running a red light.
25 Electric vehicles traveling on the bikeway is
74
1 also a big issue for the adjacent west side
2 community and park tenants.
3 Community Boards 2, 4, and the Hudson River
4 Park Advisory Board have all passed resolutions,
5 asking the city council to forbid e-vehicles on the
6 Hudson River Greenway.
7 For all of the reasons mentioned, and to help
8 users of the park and bikeway remain safe, the trust
9 respectfully asks the state legislature to maintain
10 prohibitions of all electric vehicles and bikes on
11 the Hudson River Park Greenway, and to exempt the
12 greenway from any legislation.
13 Thank you.
14 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you, Nick.
15 Thank you, Connie.
16 We have questions.
17 Senator Ramos.
18 SENATOR RAMOS: Yes.
19 Hi.
20 Thank you for your testimony.
21 What data do you have to support that e-bikes
22 are dangerous?
23 NICK ROTUNDI: Well, I -- I -- we have -- the
24 data we have for the accidents, we have so far, year
25 to date, we have eight bicycle accidents on the
75
1 bikeway, two of them are e-bike-related.
2 But in many cases, some accidents do not get
3 reported, so we don't have that particular data.
4 SENATOR RAMOS: Okay, so there's been
5 incidents with two e-bikes.
6 And were those performed by delivery people
7 or recreational riders?
8 NICK ROTUNDI: That, I don't know if they
9 were personal or commercial.
10 SENATOR RAMOS: So what data do you have with
11 regard to those two incidents?
12 NICK ROTUNDI: Okay, other than that they
13 were collisions on the bikeway between an e-bike and
14 another -- other pedestrian or another bicyclist.
15 SENATOR RAMOS: Okay.
16 What steps have you taken -- you say that you
17 have a lack of enforcement ability because your PEP
18 folks are on foot.
19 What steps have you taken in order to
20 request, or be able to build capacity, on the
21 enforcement that you feel you need?
22 NICK ROTUNDI: Right, well, together with the
23 commander of the PEP command at Hudson River Park,
24 we are -- I -- we just met this week, to sit down
25 and put together a traffic and bicycle and
76
1 pedestrian safety plan that could be utilized at our
2 busiest locations, such as right out in front of
3 Pier 40, up near North Moore Street, and then, also,
4 other locations throughout the park.
5 So, right now, we're taking the approach of,
6 the busiest locations, and seeing where the other
7 accidents are taking place, and we're formalizing a
8 plan.
9 SENATOR RAMOS: Okay. Thank you.
10 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you, Senator Ramos.
11 Senator Liu.
12 SENATOR LIU: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
13 I appreciate the testimony from these fine
14 people at the Hudson River Park -- or, Friends, and
15 Trust, of Hudson River Park.
16 I certainly can see where Senator Ramos's
17 questions are coming from, the distinction between
18 e-bikes versus what some people call "HPVs"
19 (human-powered vehicles).
20 And so there doesn't seem to be that big a
21 difference between e-bikes versus human-powered
22 bikes.
23 But on the other hand, I will say, though,
24 that, you know, I've been in the -- on the greenway,
25 your greenway, many times, biking, running, and
77
1 blade -- I mean, in-line skating, and so I can see
2 how crowded it gets.
3 And the problems that you cite are not
4 related just to e-bikes.
5 They relate to bicycles also.
6 I mean, I've seen my share of cyclists trying
7 to get by very quickly.
8 In the winter months it's easy.
9 In the summer months, very, very difficult,
10 very dangerous, for pedestrians and joggers also.
11 So the questions that she has I think extend
12 not -- I mean, are not only limited to e-bikes.
13 I would ask you if you've been in touch with
14 people who are involved in other greenways, and
15 perhaps you can talk with them about maybe some of
16 the problems that they have as well, because it is
17 my belief that, while we want to protect workers,
18 and I certainly do want to protect workers, and
19 allow them to have their livelihoods, you know,
20 having e-bikes on our city streets and in the bike
21 lanes is somewhat different from allowing them on
22 our greenways.
23 Greenways are, in my opinion, not so much
24 about transportation as it is about being in a park
25 setting, a recreational setting, as opposed to a
78
1 transportation setting.
2 So it's -- this is something that, even
3 though -- even if we pass this bill, I feel that
4 this is a local issue that can be addressed by the
5 city government.
6 The City itself, in this case New York City,
7 would be able to, in their regulations, after we
8 pass this legislation statewide, those regulations
9 can address those kinds of restrictions that you're
10 talking about.
11 I don't know that we need to legislate those
12 restrictions within the scope of state law.
13 Have you spoken with anybody at the DOT or
14 city government as to how -- whether or not you
15 could be excluded from e-bike -- from e-bike --
16 whether you can exclude e-bikes from being on your
17 greenway?
18 CONNIE FISHMAN: One of the reasons we were
19 looking for this as part of the state legislation is
20 because the Hudson River Greenway is, uniquely, a
21 New York State-owned facility.
22 It's not part of the city transportation
23 network.
24 It was built specifically as a pedestrian and
25 cycling, alternate recreational, right-of-way next
79
1 to State Route 9-A, which is also owned by New York
2 State, as is two-thirds of the property within
3 Hudson River Park.
4 SENATOR LIU: Are you sure that's the only
5 New York State greenway?
6 CONNIE FISHMAN: I don't know that it is the
7 only New York State greenway.
8 SENATOR LIU: Oh, but you know that you are.
9 Right.
10 CONNIE FISHMAN: But within New York City,
11 I know a lot of the focus of this is the city
12 streets and the adjacent bike lanes that are part of
13 them. Sometimes they are separated, and sometimes
14 they are connected, as opposed to this, which was
15 not ever built for either motorized or commercial
16 vehicles of any capacity.
17 SENATOR LIU: Okay.
18 I really appreciate your testimony.
19 It's some food for thought.
20 The Hudson River Greenway is, as you
21 mentioned, the most popular greenway. But there are
22 other really nice and popular greenways as well.
23 I often bike from Manhattan, down to
24 Coney Island via The Brooklyn. I forget the exact
25 name.
80
1 SENATOR RAMOS: He's an overachiever.
2 SENATOR LIU: No, I mean, it's a really nice
3 greenway along the shore of Brooklyn.
4 We're trying to establish and lengthen a
5 greenway here in Queens that will connect all the
6 way to Long Island.
7 So these -- you know, we might need to
8 consider whether -- whether non-human-powered
9 vehicles should be allowed on these greenways, but
10 that's -- that's a -- that's probably a different
11 topic.
12 And I will certainly talk with Senator Ramos
13 about this.
14 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you, Senator Liu.
15 Senator Ramos.
16 SENATOR RAMOS: Yes.
17 I was wondering if you've actually spoken to
18 any other State-created greenways, or similar, you
19 know, your counterparts, and why you feel you're the
20 only one here testifying against this?
21 We haven't received any testimony requesting
22 carve-outs or opposing this legislation from any of
23 your counterparts across the state.
24 CONNIE FISHMAN: I had understood that there
25 was a request also in the Adirondacks for a
81
1 carve-out for their greenway.
2 That's obviously not in the city.
3 As far as other greenways within the city of
4 New York, I don't know that they are sort of
5 thinking at this point about this legislation at
6 all, and whether this will be a problem, or whether
7 the fact that they have prohibitions, in general,
8 against certain vehicles entering their parks and
9 traveling on their greenways, has made them think
10 that it doesn't affect them.
11 SENATOR RAMOS: And as technology advances,
12 do you feel like greenways should be keeping up?
13 CONNIE FISHMAN: You know, I think part of
14 the problem is, whether you are in a location that
15 is sort of more like Hudson River Park in the
16 winter, as you mentioned, you know, on a freezing
17 cold day in February, where people actually still
18 use the Hudson River Greenway to commute to work,
19 it's very leisurely.
20 As soon as the weather turns good, we get
21 nervous even having pedestrians and human-powered
22 bicycles on the same physical space because of the
23 difference in speeds.
24 It's very difficult to enforce with park
25 police because their real job is to be walking in
82
1 the park and addressing issues of park-user
2 violations, as opposed to be monitoring the bikeway.
3 So it's, just, some of it is a capacity
4 issue.
5 When this greenway was built, because it was
6 the first in New York City, the lanes were thought
7 to be standard width at the time, but have proven,
8 with the usage, to be way too narrow for the amount
9 of people in New York who want to use the cycling
10 lane especially.
11 And the bollards, after October 31, '17,
12 made that even more difficult.
13 SENATOR RAMOS: You remember well.
14 I was at city hall at the time.
15 All right. Well, thank you very much.
16 CONNIE FISHMAN: Thank you.
17 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you very much,
18 Senator Ramos.
19 Connie and Nick, thank you so much.
20 We certainly appreciate your testimony, and
21 we'll certainly take it into consideration as we
22 move forward.
23 CONNIE FISHMAN: Thank you.
24 NICK ROTUNDI: Great. Thank you.
25
83
1 SENATOR KENNEDY: Next up, we are going to
2 hear from Dequan Lu, a delivery worker.
3 And following Dequan, we will hear from
4 Hermelindo Carrillo, another delivery worker.
5 Good morning.
6 DEQUAN LU: Good morning.
7 SENATOR KENNEDY: And welcome.
8 DEQUAN LU: (Speaking in foreign language.)
9 (Translated to English by translator.)
10 We've had many conversations in the past.
11 Today I'm here again to have another
12 conversation with the senators and other people.
13 (Speaking in foreign language.)
14 (Translated to English by translator.)
15 I'm not very well learned, but I hope that
16 the things we say everyone can understand.
17 (Speaking in foreign language.)
18 (Translated to English by translator.)
19 We've spoken with mayors. We still haven't
20 figured out how can we communicate on these matters,
21 how could those workers make a living.
22 (Speaking in foreign language.)
23 (Translated to English by translator.)
24 We've all complained and protested in front
25 of DOT and the Mayor's office, but how can we
84
1 change?
2 (Speaking in foreign language.)
3 (Translated to English by translator.)
4 There are many representatives working on
5 these matters with us, but there hasn't been
6 resolved, and I feel disappointed.
7 (Speaking in foreign language.)
8 (Translated to English by translator.)
9 We have two-way chat groups, and there are
10 1,000 people, they tell me every day.
11 (Speaking in foreign language.)
12 (Translated to English by translator.)
13 That means people doing the labor works, they
14 are afraid of making a report.
15 (Speaking in foreign language.)
16 (Translated to English by translator.)
17 There are many fines.
18 And they work, then they risk many tickets.
19 Each person, each time, is issued seven --
20 seven tickets, six tickets, about more than
21 1,000 U.S. dollars.
22 (Speaking in foreign language.)
23 (Translated to English by translator.)
24 Because that -- (indiscernible) because
25 people will start not trust this problems, to not
85
1 trust that we can solve this.
2 (Speaking in foreign language.)
3 (Translated to English by translator.)
4 These tickets, we cannot sue.
5 Where can we resolve these issues?
6 (Speaking in foreign language.)
7 (Translated to English by translator.)
8 With our support, we hope to communicate
9 further on these matters, and with other superiors
10 and officials.
11 (Speaking in foreign language.)
12 (Translated to English by translator.)
13 Is that, the officials, elected officials,
14 have not worked with effort great enough.
15 Many people, many clients, they -- many
16 people throw those papers on the table, and feeling
17 resentful.
18 SAM: Time.
19 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. --
20 (Speaking in foreign language.)
21 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you.
22 And you'll translate?
23 (Translation from and to English.)
24 SENATOR KENNEDY: Mr. Lu, thank you.
25 DEQUAN LU: Thank you.
86
1 SENATOR KENNEDY: No, we have questions.
2 And one thing I would like to recognize is
3 your leadership.
4 Senator Ramos and Senator Liu speak very
5 highly of you, and the work that you have done on
6 behalf of the delivery workers.
7 And every good -- every issue needs a good
8 leader, and it looks like you are that leader.
9 So, thank you.
10 And what you brought with you to show us is
11 very compelling.
12 To see that amount of tickets at $500 apiece
13 is devastating.
14 Each one of those could devastate an entire
15 family.
16 And that package of tickets that you brought
17 in, the copies of those tickets, hits home.
18 Senator Ramos has talked about this as an
19 economic issue, of a criminal-justice issue.
20 We now know exactly what she's talking about.
21 Thank you.
22 Senator Ramos.
23 SENATOR RAMOS: Yes.
24 Thank you so much for your organizing
25 efforts.
87
1 I hope to continue being an ally until we
2 really reach justice for all delivery workers.
3 I had the sense that before you were
4 time-limited, you wanted to talk a little bit more
5 about those tickets, and I wanted to ask you
6 precisely that.
7 Can you talk a little bit more about police
8 interactions between delivery workers and the NYPD?
9 How you're stopped?
10 I -- do you want to translate there?
11 I realize I'm now talking too much.
12 Go ahead.
13 It happens.
14 No?
15 Okay.
16 So I would like to know, sort of:
17 How police officers stop delivery workers.
18 What those interactions are like, whether
19 they're respectful.
20 Is there a conversation, typically, before
21 the ticket is issued?
22 What happens usually before the e-bike is
23 confiscated?
24 How -- you know, what is that experience like
25 for those of us who haven't been through it?
88
1 (Translation from and to English.)
2 There has been many protests, and police has
3 interacted, and he has stated this before.
4 Police officers from 13th Precinct and the
5 17th Precinct, a few officers might have been
6 racially biased, and they stopped us when they don't
7 like us.
8 There were instances when police officers
9 from 17th Precinct confiscated the bike, even
10 though two bikes had been modified and disabled
11 throttle.
12 Eventually arrest, and they had visited
13 Precinct 5.
14 (Indiscernible) issues, the difficulties in
15 communication, with Precinct 17.
16 The response from the precinct is that the
17 supervisor was not there, and the inquiry was
18 ignored.
19 Look, every day there are police officers
20 cracking down on e-bikes in all 17 precinct.
21 First, police officers were to protect us,
22 but now they charge the workers, and accidents
23 occur.
24 Going forth like this, this group of
25 (indiscernible) workers would have to go out of
89
1 work, and many organizations and institutions and
2 companies would not be able to receive deliveries.
3 Many times worker would get fined without
4 receiving support from elected officials because
5 they were afraid of getting into troubles.
6 And, that's the core message.
7 SENATOR KENNEDY: Perfect. Thank you.
8 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you.
9 SENATOR KENNEDY: We are going to hear a
10 comment from Senator Liu.
11 SENATOR LIU: Thank you very much.
12 Well, once again, I want to thank
13 Senator Ramos for pushing this legislation,
14 primarily in defense and support of our workers
15 here.
16 I just want to say that our delivery workers
17 in the city, and beyond in the state of New York,
18 they work very hard.
19 People want their food, like, half an hour
20 ago, and there's a great deal of pressure on these
21 workers to deliver the food very quickly.
22 And as they do so, they become the target of
23 complaints from other residents.
24 In the past we have had complaints about the
25 bicycles themselves.
90
1 Now it's about e-bikes.
2 I feel like it's not really about e-bikes.
3 It's just more about painting these workers
4 as nuisances, somehow, even though everybody wants
5 their food so quickly.
6 And even worse, as was mentioned earlier,
7 many of these delivery workers have been the target
8 of far, far more heinous crimes, including multiple
9 incidents where delivery workers get lured to
10 apartments, only to be robbed, and, unfortunately,
11 Mr. Chairman, killed, killed in the most violent of
12 the ways.
13 So we have to understand the kinds of work
14 that these delivery workers do on behalf of all
15 New Yorkers.
16 I don't -- I can't imagine there being
17 anybody who hasn't gotten service from one of these
18 delivery workers at some point in the near past.
19 So -- and as you mentioned, Mr. Chairman, the
20 testimony is compelling.
21 I mean, a $500 fine for a worker that doesn't
22 even make anywhere close to that per day, in some
23 cases per week, it is absolutely unbearable, and
24 I would say unconscionable.
25 So, this legislation is important, and the
91
1 prime motivation for this, I believe, is to allow
2 our workers to do what they do, which is serve our
3 fellow New Yorkers.
4 Thank you.
5 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you, Senator Liu.
6 Thank you, Senator Ramos.
7 And, Mr. Lu, thank you again.
8 Thank you for your leadership, and thank you
9 for your presentation and your testimony.
10 Thank you.
11 DEQUAN LU: Thank you.
12 SENATOR KENNEDY: Have a wonderful day.
13 Next we are going to hear from
14 Hermelindo Carrillo, a delivery worker;
15 Followed by the Helen Ho, from the Biking --
16 Biking Public Project, and, Do Jay Lee --
17 Dr. Do J. Lee from Queens College CUNY and Biking
18 Public Project.
19 Good morning, gentlemen.
20 SENATOR RAMOS: Buenas Dias.
21 HERMELINDO CARRILLO: Buenas Dias.
22 SENATOR KENNEDY: Buenas Dias.
23 HERMELINDO CARRILLO: (Speaking in foreign
24 language.)
25 (Translated to English by translator.)
92
1 Hi.
2 My name is Hermelindo Carrillo, and I am a
3 member of the Workplace Justice Committee and
4 Make the Road New York.
5 (Speaking in foreign language.)
6 (Translated to English by translator.)
7 I am married, I have a 14-year-old daughter,
8 and have lived in New York since 2014.
9 I have worked in the same restaurant for
10 four years as a prepper, a cook, and, in the last
11 three years, making deliveries.
12 (Speaking in foreign language.)
13 (Translated to English by translator.)
14 I work around 47 1/2 hours per week, making
15 less than what I should under our labor laws.
16 With that money, I have to take care of my
17 wife, my daughter, and my parents, but this income
18 is not sufficient for my family.
19 Sometimes I have to do other work part-time
20 in order to make ends meet; and, thus, as a delivery
21 worker, I have to depend on tips to pay the bills.
22 (Speaking in foreign language.)
23 (Translated to English by translator.)
24 In order to do my job I use an electric
25 bicycle.
93
1 To make enough tips, I depend on my e-bike to
2 make more deliveries every day.
3 Because of this, I think they should be
4 legalized to help us stop having problems with the
5 police and tickets, especially since I already use
6 all of the required safety gear, like my safety
7 vest, lights, and a helmet.
8 (Speaking in foreign language.)
9 (Translated to English by translator.)
10 A while ago the police stopped me and gave me
11 a ticket for using an e-bike, and this happens
12 frequently, so much so, that my co-workers are
13 afraid of the police when they work.
14 If this proposal becomes law, we will finally
15 be able to avoid the risk of having to pay these
16 tickets and having our bikes confiscated.
17 (Speaking in foreign language.)
18 (Translated to English by translator.)
19 I ask that you support us by regulating our
20 way of working and getting around, so that you can
21 continue helping our families and let us give a
22 better service to our clients.
23 I know that many of you state representatives
24 use our services frequently, and for this reason,
25 I feel that you should support us by legalizing
94
1 e-bikes.
2 HERMELINDO CARRILLO: Muchas gracias.
3 THE TRANSLATOR: Thank you.
4 SENATOR RAMOS: Gracia.
5 SENATOR KENNEDY: Muchas gracias.
6 Questions?
7 Thank you very much.
8 [Applause.]
9 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you very much,
10 Mr. Carrillo.
11 Next we will hear from Helen Ho, Biking
12 Public Project, and Dr. Do J. Lee from Queens
13 College CUNY and Biking Public Project;
14 Followed by Alberto Gonzalez Gonzalez (sic),
15 a delivery worker.
16 Good morning.
17 HELEN HO: Good morning.
18 SENATOR KENNEDY: Good afternoon, I'm sorry.
19 Good afternoon.
20 DR. DO J. LEE, Ph.D.: Good afternoon.
21 HELEN HO: Good afternoon.
22 Hi, guys.
23 My name is Helen Ho, and I'm the co-founder
24 of the Biking Public Project.
25 My group has been focused on a research
95
1 project centered around food-delivery workers for
2 the past several years.
3 Based on our work with food-delivery workers,
4 we strongly support this bill that we're talking
5 about today, as it will help immigrant workers, who
6 we've heard from today, who suffer from policing of
7 their e-bikes.
8 Our group approached our project with
9 delivery workers as transportation planners, but we
10 quickly learned, at the beginning, that the only
11 topic workers wanted to talk about was safety, their
12 safety, from police harassment.
13 We have spoken to, interviewed, and surveyed
14 an overwhelming number of food-delivery workers who
15 fear for their own safety of being stopped and
16 harassed by NYPD as they try to do their daily work
17 of bringing New Yorkers food in a timely manner.
18 Before we began our work, we tried really
19 diligently to find information about delivery
20 workers in New York City.
21 There was none.
22 So we conducted a media study on public
23 perception and how the media portrayed workers.
24 We found that, prior to beginning our work,
25 about three-quarters of media stories about
96
1 food-delivery workers did not include a single quote
2 from food-delivery workers.
3 As a result, privileged and powerful voices
4 defined the public narrative that consistently
5 demonize delivery workers as a public-safety threat
6 even as these same workers delivered their food.
7 In some of these media depictions, the
8 authors do nothing to conceal their racism, as they
9 describe delivery workers as (air quotes) Szechwan
10 psychos, or as a Mongol warrior.
11 We continue to see Mayor Bill de Blasio and
12 the NYPD continue the same pattern of demonizing the
13 same immigrant workers who feed New York City.
14 The current crackdown on workers' e-bikes
15 started when Matthew Scheffler, a rich Upper West
16 Side banker, who knows nothing about the lives of
17 delivery workers, got on the Brian Lehrer Show to
18 complain about delivery workers' on e-bikes.
19 Based on the comments of one wealthy
20 Upper West Side banker, Mayor de Blasio initiated
21 the crackdown on delivery workers' e-bikes.
22 This demonstrates the unequal and uneven
23 power that some voices have in our society to
24 inflict harm on marginalized communities, like
25 immigrant workers.
97
1 The state legislature can help deliver
2 justice by listening to immigrant-worker voices that
3 Mayor de Blasio has failed to hear.
4 In fact, even as the Mayor has dangerously
5 and recklessly depicted immigrant delivery workers
6 on e-bikes as a safety threat, without any evidence,
7 a "New York Times" reporter tweeted a picture of a
8 worker delivering food by e-bike to Gracie Mansion,
9 in the Mayor's home, this past December.
10 Furthermore, just a few months ago
11 Streetsblog witnessed 13 food deliveries by e-bike
12 within one hour at the NYPD headquarters.
13 This hypocrisy reveals the truth of the
14 matter, that all of New York City depends on the
15 labor of immigrant food-delivery workers on e-bikes
16 to feed the city.
17 To feed New York City, we estimate that more
18 than 30,000 of 50,000 food-delivery workers in
19 New York City already use an e-bike.
20 Workers are already here on e-bikes, doing
21 the work that people want them to do, and we should
22 make sure that they are not criminalized for just
23 doing their jobs.
24 The history of New York City's discrimination
25 against e-bikes stems from a 2004 city council
98
1 ordinance that made pocket bikes, operated with a
2 throttle, and popular amongst teens of color at the
3 time, illegal, while keeping Segways, a vehicle used
4 by wealthier tourists, legal.
5 This began a discriminatory pattern of e-bike
6 legality and enforcement in New York City that
7 penalized communities of colors and immigrants for
8 their e-bikes.
9 People of color in public spaces are
10 historically discriminated against, even in our very
11 liberal sanctuary city.
12 New York City has been able to get away with
13 discriminatory policing because there is an absence
14 of New York State legislation on e-bikes.
15 We need your help in beginning to correct
16 this problem by legalizing e-bikes.
17 On behalf of the Biking Public Project, I ask
18 the state legislature to deliver justice for
19 immigrant workers delivery workers by legalizing
20 e-bikes.
21 Thank you.
22 SENATOR KENNEDY: Wonderful.
23 Thank you very much.
24 [Applause.]
25 DR. DO J. LEE, Ph.D.: Thank you,
99
1 Senator Kennedy, Ramos, and Liu, and all the
2 New York Senators, for our testimonies today.
3 We give our testimonies in support of State
4 Bill S.5294.
5 I am a professor at Queens College, and a
6 researcher with the Biking Public Project.
7 This testimony is based upon our research on
8 the conditions, and experiences of hundreds of
9 New York City's food-delivery workers.
10 This research formed the basis for my
11 doctoral research at the CUNY Graduate Center.
12 New York City is -- a city built upon the
13 sweat and sacrifice of immigrants, currently has a
14 tale of two e-bikes that ruins the lives of
15 hard-working, low-wage immigrant workers.
16 On one hand, New York City supports its
17 privileged white-collar commuters who can ride on
18 city bike e-bikes or other electrified options
19 without harassment.
20 In contrast, workers have received thousands
21 of e-bike fines, over 2100 e-bikes confiscated, in
22 the last couple of years.
23 We'd like to reiterate that, the distinction
24 between throttle and pedal-assist e-bikes is very
25 highly arbitrary; it's just a matter of how you get
100
1 the electric-assist.
2 And it's a very odd idea to suggest that
3 people deserve an electric-assist if they're
4 physically able to pedal, as opposed to turning a
5 throttle.
6 That suggests a certain able-bodied bias, to
7 suggest that only people who can pedal should get an
8 electric-assist.
9 And as you heard from the workers, this is a
10 dangerous job.
11 A lot of them have accumulated a lot injuries
12 on the job, and are sometimes unable to pedal for --
13 consistently for many hours.
14 And so, as Senator Ramos mentioned earlier,
15 this is a labor-justice issue.
16 Immigrant workers report rampant labor
17 exploitation that reflects in our data.
18 Immigrant workers often get a base-pay rate
19 of $20 to $60 a day before tips, for 12 to 16 hours
20 a day, which effectively means that their wages are
21 $2 to $4 before tips.
22 Even with tips, their wages are, roughly,
23 about $10 an hour.
24 Workers with e-bikes are 17 times more likely
25 to do more deliveries a day, which means they get
101
1 paid more.
2 Also, with these labor conditions, over
3 90 percent of the workers have to provide and own
4 their own delivery vehicle, whether it's a bike,
5 e-bike, or other vehicle, rather than the restaurant
6 or employer that -- who often require workers to
7 ride e-bikes anyways.
8 In speaking with delivery workers, we found
9 that e-bikes allow workers to keep their jobs as
10 they get older, as many workers have mentioned.
11 We found, for example, Chinese delivery
12 workers have a median age of 46 years old, which
13 means many of them are doing this job into their
14 50s and 60s, which you have already heard.
15 So as you -- as workers accumulate injuries,
16 the physical toll, e-bikes allow them to hold on to
17 jobs that are usually one of the best options in a
18 tough market for them.
19 Workers don't get health care, they don't get
20 workers' compensation.
21 E-bikes allow them to survive in a difficult
22 job.
23 This is a labor-justice issue.
24 And there are a lot of issues that need to be
25 addressed in the labor conditions, and e-bikes
102
1 should not be one of the things that we should be
2 focusing on.
3 But we need to pass this so we can focus on
4 other, more-pressing labor-justice issues.
5 This is also, as Senator Ramos mentioned, a
6 policing-justice issue.
7 Our research finds that delivery workers who
8 are not fluent in English are 11 times more likely
9 to have paid more than $250 in fines.
10 Given their low wages, a single $500 e-bike
11 ticket takes a delivery worker about a week's worth
12 of work to pay off.
13 Because workers have to provide their own
14 e-bikes, when an e-bike is confiscated, they cannot
15 work.
16 Furthermore, in our research, we find that
17 one out of every seven, about 14 percent of
18 immigrant delivery workers, reported that the NYPD
19 has arrested them at least once for not having ID
20 while out on a delivery.
21 This means that the e-bike crackdown
22 increases the policing of immigrant delivery workers
23 and worsens the risk of arrest for them.
24 And any arrest of an immigrant in this
25 political environment may have severe and serious
103
1 consequences.
2 Half of delivery workers in our survey
3 reported experiencing robberies and assaults on the
4 job.
5 But because of the fear of the police, in
6 part, caused by the e-bikes crackdown, over
7 two-thirds of workers reported never calling the
8 police after a robbery or assault.
9 This is what worsens public safety, not
10 workers on e-bikes.
11 And as workers mentioned, this also makes
12 them vulnerable to various forms of police abuse
13 that you are hearing.
14 This -- in this research, we find that the
15 e-bike crackdown has never been about actual public
16 safety.
17 It is about more powerful and privileged
18 groups of people making unsubstantiated claims about
19 marginalized groups of workers, as people will also
20 testify from our groups.
21 We took a look at the safety data itself.
22 And in the whole history of New York City,
23 there's never been a death caused by an e-bike rider
24 to another person.
25 And when we looked at NYPD data from last
104
1 year, from 2018, of the 11,000 pedestrian injuries
2 caused in any sort of collision, whether by car or
3 any other user, only nine were caused by e-bike
4 riders.
5 This is not a systematic public-safety issue,
6 despite what the Mayor may say.
7 This issue is deeply personal to me.
8 I'm an immigrant. My parents were
9 immigrants.
10 When my father first came this country many
11 years ago, his first job was to do delivery work for
12 a pharmacy.
13 Like my father, immigrant delivery workers
14 endure hardships in the hope that their lives and
15 sacrifices matter.
16 And I ask that you pass this legislation so
17 it does matter.
18 Thank you very much.
19 [Applause.]
20 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you, Ms. Ho.
21 Thank you, Dr. Lee.
22 Any questions?
23 SENATOR RAMOS: Are you...?
24 JU WONG: Yeah.
25 SENATOR KENNEDY: Okay. Sorry.
105
1 JU WONG: Hi, Senators.
2 Thank you for giving me this opportunity to
3 testimony in support of State Bill S.5294.
4 My name is Ju Wong, a documentary filmmaker,
5 and adjunct professor at Queens College.
6 The reason I'm giving this testimony is
7 because I'm also a volunteer, a community organizer,
8 and translator, for the Bike Public Project.
9 SENATOR KENNEDY: (Inaudible.)
10 JU WONG: Yeah, and also working on a
11 documentary about food-delivery workers in the past
12 almost three years.
13 SENATOR KENNEDY: Wonderful.
14 JU WONG: I want to share some of my research
15 and our filming experience about the Chinese
16 food-delivery workers.
17 SENATOR KENNEDY: Please.
18 JU WONG: As an immigrant woman, I start
19 building my family in one of New York's Asian
20 immigrant neighborhood, Flushing community.
21 It was disturbing for me to see many media
22 stories about food-delivery workers that constantly
23 demonized these workers as a public-safety threat,
24 the delivery workers which were called "Szechwan
25 psychos" and "Mongol warrior."
106
1 They are my neighbors.
2 They are the -- their kids go to same school
3 with my kids.
4 And from the experience, I worked with them,
5 become friends, with many delivery workers.
6 I cannot make a single link from those public
7 images to those who I have been encountered with.
8 They always offer me tea and sponge cake
9 every time we meet.
10 They always humbly say "thank you" after a
11 the little help they received.
12 They are people just want to work, to make a
13 living and support their family, like most of
14 New Yorkers.
15 In my (indiscernible), the workers I know,
16 they have sons who are sending money to take care of
17 their elderly parents for decades.
18 They are fathers, they are responsible
19 husbands, who work as hard as they can to build a
20 family.
21 They are fathers willing to sacrifice their
22 life to support their children with better future.
23 None of them deserve those titles.
24 When the Mayor and the NYPD called immigrant
25 delivery workers "a public-safety threat," in fact,
107
1 (indiscernible) workers as one has the most of fear
2 of injury pedestrians and involving any kind of
3 accident.
4 When they are on the road, they are afraid of
5 the police, they are afraid of hurting pedestrians,
6 afraid of encountering any accident.
7 For example, as we all know, many of them
8 have immigration issues; a fear to call police, a
9 fear to seeking medical help.
10 For example, one young delivery worker,
11 Annette (ph.), after injured by a gun in a robber
12 accident, he started a conversation with me as,
13 "I see smoke come out of my body."
14 Even that interview, like, after he was
15 injured (indiscernible) years, he started shaking in
16 his voice to tell me.
17 He'd start, a first line, he will say is,
18 "I see smoke come out of my body."
19 So, the life of delivery workers, the lack of
20 protection, they are the most vulnerable people on
21 the street.
22 They are the people who rush right through
23 the traffic, just for deliver food to the customers.
24 I keep hearing similar stories about
25 struggles and the challenge they're facing as a
108
1 non-English-speaker labor, new to the culture and
2 the society.
3 On top of everything, they have to face
4 challenge from New York -- NYPD in their daily work.
5 A delivery worker once said, "I feel unlike a
6 rat on the street. They just keep catching me."
7 The State must legalize e-bike as a matter of
8 immigrant justice.
9 The current law is anti-immigrant,
10 anti-worker, and anti-safety.
11 A lot of workers have stressed:
12 "NYPD doesn't stop people speak English."
13 "They just don't like Chinese."
14 "Always, the same police catch me over and
15 over again."
16 "They know we can do nothing to stop them."
17 Those are quotes from the workers.
18 So when the Mayor and the NYPD do the
19 crackdown on their e-bikes, and took 3 to 4 million
20 dollar from most low-wage immigrant workers that
21 year, the New York City also supported its
22 privileged white-collar commuters with who can ride
23 on city e-bikes.
24 Why only city e-bikes are legal to ride?
25 What's the difference between Class 1, 2,
109
1 3 e-bikes?
2 If you care to go to any e-bike shop in
3 New York State who selling e-bikes, they will tell
4 you, there's no significant difference between
5 e-bikes made in China with made in the U.S.
6 E-bikes are just the transportation tool. It
7 can be easily converted to meet any law requirement.
8 What really behind the crackdown on
9 immigration workers' e-bikes, under the current law,
10 it's a sad statement.
11 There are no -- there are difference between
12 people who ride on the e-bikes.
13 Most immigrant workers (indiscernible) don't
14 know how to participate in public events, don't know
15 how to get their voice to be heard.
16 It doesn't means their existence doesn't
17 matter.
18 They are New Yorkers too, they are part of
19 us. We interact with them like every day.
20 Without them, New York wouldn't be the same.
21 We urge the state legislature to deliver
22 justice now, and passing the legislation that
23 support our immigration delivery workers.
24 Thank you.
25 [Applause.]
110
1 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you very much.
2 We have a question from Senator Ramos.
3 SENATOR RAMOS: Yes.
4 I just want to begin by thanking all of you
5 for the work that you've done in collecting data,
6 sitting down with folks who are impacted by the
7 current policy, and for, yeah, actually having data
8 to support the fact that this grave injustice needs
9 to be corrected as soon as possible.
10 You know, when the Mayor first decided to
11 begin his crackdown, he would say that this was
12 really aimed at the restaurants that were, you know,
13 forcing the delivery workers to use illegal e-bikes.
14 And that, really, that's who they would
15 penalize, was the restaurants, and not the workers.
16 Obviously, today, we're seeing firsthand that
17 that's not exactly how that has translated to
18 precincts, not exactly how enforcement has taken
19 place.
20 Can you speak to that?
21 I mean, before, I was trying to get some
22 stories from the delivery workers as it relates to
23 interactions by the NYPD.
24 In fact, as we sit here right now, there's
25 been a crackdown in Brooklyn, by the way, for those
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1 who are keeping up at home.
2 And we've seen crackdowns on the Upper East
3 Side over the past few days, where as many as five
4 police officers are stopping one immigrant delivery
5 worker who was, I think, driving a Class 1 e-bike in
6 a bike lane, without anybody else around him,
7 because that's what the video shows.
8 Can you speak to those experiences a bit
9 more?
10 DR. DO J. LEE, Ph.D.: Sure.
11 Thank you, Senator Ramos, for that question.
12 So for -- for, I think, the crackdown was
13 predicated upon not listening to workers, or not
14 even spending time to listen to workers.
15 It was initiated by, as Helen mentioned,
16 Matthew Scheffler, who didn't talk to any workers,
17 and he made just a false assertion that the
18 restaurants own the electric bikes.
19 And when you talk to workers, they'll
20 routinely say: No, we own the electric bikes. The
21 restaurants don't want to pay for them. We have to
22 pay for them.
23 And so the Mayor listened to Matthew, and the
24 Mayor is, like, oh, the restaurants own the electric
25 bikes. So we need to crack down on restaurants and
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1 we're not going to hurt the workers.
2 It was a totally false assertion based on a
3 lack of understanding the reality of what workers
4 endure.
5 And so we have tried many times to get the
6 workers in front of the Mayor to kind of dispel
7 these myths.
8 And so when workers get these tickets, the
9 NYPD stopped them on the street, they issued a
10 summons. The summons does not go to the
11 restaurants, by and large.
12 The e-bike is confiscated.
13 And when the e-bike is confiscated, the
14 workers have to retrieve it or they lose their jobs.
15 The restaurant doesn't care.
16 And so, for the restaurant, they can find
17 other workers.
18 And so I think this is where, if we're going
19 to address this issue, it is a labor-justice issue,
20 but we shouldn't put the burden on the workers
21 themselves.
22 And so, you know, I think this is where
23 justice has to occur, is that we have to listen to
24 worker voices; to listen to their voices, to listen
25 to their experiences.
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1 Otherwise, we're just going to punish people
2 who have absolutely the least amount of power to
3 address what's going on.
4 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you.
5 And, Helen, you've been a huge proponent of
6 Vision Zero, and alternatives to transportation for
7 a very long time.
8 Can you speak a little bit about how these
9 modes of transportation, e-bikes and e-scooters,
10 really actually can help with Vision Zero?
11 I don't know about you, I'd rather get hit by
12 a scooter than a car, personally, if I had to
13 choose.
14 I'd rather not get hit at all, but as a
15 pedestrian these are things I think about.
16 But what do you think?
17 HELEN HO: Yes, so, I think the more non-car
18 options there are on the street, the safer the
19 street is for everyone.
20 But, you know, I think that Vision Zero also
21 needs to evolve.
22 Vision Zero is primarily about safety and
23 enforcement, and -- you know, and I think it's time
24 for us to ask the question, safety for who?
25 Right?
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1 Is it safety for Matthew Scheffler and, you
2 know, folks on the Upper West Side, who can afford
3 to call in and talk to Brian Lehrer on a leisurely
4 basis?
5 Or is it safety for everyone, right,
6 including Black Lives Matter, including
7 food-delivery workers?
8 I think this is what we really need to ask
9 ourselves.
10 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you.
11 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you very much.
12 We appreciate all of your testimony.
13 SENATOR RAMOS: And your work.
14 SENATOR KENNEDY: And your work, for sure.
15 [Applause.]
16 SENATOR KENNEDY: Next we will hear from --
17 [Applause.]
18 SENATOR KENNEDY: Next we will hear from
19 Alberto Gonzalez Gonzalez (sic);
20 Followed by Clemente Martinez.
21 ALBERTO GONZALEZ: Buenas dias.
22 SENATOR RAMOS: Buenas dias.
23 ALBERTO GONZALEZ: (Speaking in foreign
24 language.)
25 (Translated to English by translator.)
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1 My name is Alberto Gonzalez.
2 I live in Bushwood, Brooklyn, and have worked
3 as a restaurant delivery worker for one year and
4 eight months.
5 Since I began, I have using an electric
6 bicycle.
7 It is not fair for the State to prohibit or
8 take away our e-bikes while they allow other kinds
9 of e-bikes to become legal.
10 I depend on my e-bike to work and support my
11 family.
12 The State should realize that e-bikes
13 themselves are not dangerous.
14 I am a responsible person, and it's not
15 dangerous when I use an e-bike.
16 (Speaking in foreign language.)
17 (Translated to English by translator.)
18 Delivery workers need e-bikes to do our jobs.
19 It is much faster doing deliveries while
20 using an e-bike.
21 Food arrives more quickly and hotter, and,
22 for workers, e-bikes are better because we can go
23 calmly and without exerting ourselves too much.
24 I don't see any reason for why state
25 politicians want to take away my money in the form
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1 of tickets while I deliver food to them every day.
2 I work 52 hours a week, and in one day
3 I worked between 11 and 12 hours, and can make up to
4 70 deliveries.
5 There are 12 other delivery workers that work
6 with me, and if we were continue to be criminalized,
7 it will be terrible for our families.
8 (Speaking in foreign language.)
9 (Translated to English by translator.)
10 These e-bikes are an absolute requirement for
11 my job.
12 If we make 100 deliveries in one day with an
13 e-bike, we could probably only make 50 deliveries on
14 a regular bike.
15 So if I cannot using e-bike, this impacts my
16 ability to make a living because I live off of tips
17 that I make from these deliveries as part of my
18 income.
19 If we make less deliveries, there are less
20 tips.
21 Due to the inconsistency of the tips that
22 come in, it is difficult to budget for my family.
23 Every week I struggle and worry about how
24 I will pay taxes, bills, and other family costs.
25 I have three children, and I have to pay
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1 rent, electricity, gas, phone bills, and groceries.
2 If the e-bikes we have invested in continue
3 to be illegal, it will significantly affect me and
4 my family.
5 (Speaking in foreign language.)
6 (Translated to English by translator.)
7 I think it would be a good idea to allow for
8 a way to legalize our e-bikes.
9 I have never seen an accident occur between
10 an e-bike rider making deliveries and pedestrians.
11 Of course, we delivery workers should use our
12 e-bikes responsibly, but the State does not have a
13 good reason for prohibiting our bikes while allowing
14 other kinds of e-bikes.
15 What has occurred with the state's e-bike
16 policy is akin to if someone had an accident with
17 the car.
18 The person responsible should obviously
19 confront the consequences, but not all cars should
20 be prohibited and not everyone that uses cars should
21 have to suffer.
22 It is not fair that we all have to suffer for
23 what a few irresponsible e-bikes riders may have
24 done.
25 Continuing to prohibit our e-bikes would be a
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1 terrible thing for our industry.
2 Thank you.
3 [Applause.]
4 SENATOR KENNEDY: Muchas gracias.
5 Senator Ramos has a question.
6 SENATOR RAMOS: (Speaking in foreign
7 language.)
8 And I'll translate to English later,
9 I promise.
10 (Continues speaking in foreign language.)
11 My question to is him is, basically, what his
12 suggestions are for us to reach delivery workers,
13 and make sure that they understand the rules of the
14 road and ensure that they're as good of drivers in
15 keeping themselves and everybody else safe as well.
16 ALBERTO GONZALEZ: (Speaking in foreign
17 language.)
18 (Translated to English by translator.)
19 THE TRANSLATOR: Do you want me to translate?
20 SENATOR RAMOS: Yeah, sure.
21 THE TRANSLATOR: He suggests that
22 legalization could actually make it safer because
23 then drivers would be able to interact with police
24 in a better way, and wouldn't have to hide, and it
25 would be better for everyone, in Alberto's point of
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1 view.
2 ALBERTO GONZALEZ: (Speaking in foreign
3 language.)
4 (Translated to English by translator.)
5 And that making a way for legalization would
6 make everything better.
7 SENATOR RAMOS: Okay.
8 Muchas gracias.
9 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you, Alberto.
10 Next we will hear from Clemente Martinez, a
11 delivery worker;
12 Followed by H.P. Liao, from the Families for
13 Safe Streets.
14 Welcome, good afternoon.
15 CLEMENTE MARTINEZ: (Substitute speaker for
16 Clemente Martinez speaking on behalf of
17 Eduardo Perez, absent.)
18 Good afternoon.
19 I'm here speaking on behalf of Clemente, a
20 delivery worker, who couldn't be here because he was
21 called into work last minute.
22 My name is Eduardo Perez, and I've worked as
23 a delivery worker in Brooklyn for one year.
24 For me and my co-workers, the fines that the
25 police give us for using our electric bikes are
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1 unjust.
2 I want to share something that happened to me
3 recently to help explain why.
4 To do my job, I am required to use an
5 electric bicycle.
6 My work requires substantial physical
7 exertion every day.
8 My work shifts are 11 hours per day, and each
9 delivery requires traveling a distance of
10 approximately 1.5 miles each way.
11 Because of this, without an electric bike,
12 I would feel exhausted and stressed.
13 This leads me to need an e-bike as a tool for
14 my job.
15 Since I depend on tips, each delivery is very
16 important to me in order to make a decent wage.
17 Having an e-bike allows me to make more
18 deliveries each shift.
19 Thanks to this tool, my family and I are,
20 thus, benefited by more income.
21 Furthermore, my employer requires me to use
22 an e-bike because it benefits him as well.
23 But this past November of 2018, I was parked
24 momentarily during one of my work shifts, and a
25 police officer got out of his car, came towards me,
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1 and asked me why I was using the bike lane, and told
2 me that I should have been using the car lanes.
3 I told him that it was because I was riding a
4 bicycle.
5 But, ultimately, the officer gave me four
6 tickets and confiscated my bike.
7 Since the bike was a tool for my job, I saw
8 the need to pay those tickets immediately and get my
9 bike back.
10 In total, the tickets amounted to $940.
11 When I left the bank with the cash, a man,
12 pretending to be an officer, asked to search my
13 body.
14 During that search, the man took my cash and
15 went running.
16 Although I called the police, until this day,
17 I haven't gotten much help.
18 In the end, I was not able to recover my bike
19 because, in addition to not having the money, the
20 officers told me I needed to wait for a hearing with
21 the court a few months later in order to resolve the
22 tickets.
23 Since I couldn't wait, I had to buy another
24 bike in order to keep working, costing me a total of
25 $1,700 without any help from my employer, even
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1 though he required me to have one.
2 As you can see, in the course of simply
3 performing my job, I was labeled a criminal.
4 Us workers are not criminals, and we don't
5 prejudice anybody.
6 In fact, we feed this city with our labor.
7 After more than 10 years of being
8 criminalized, the time has come to stop this.
9 Legislators, I ask you to finally listen to
10 us and vote to legalize our work tools.
11 Thank you.
12 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you.
13 And please pass along our gratitude.
14 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you.
15 [Applause.]
16 SENATOR KENNEDY: Next we will hear from
17 H.P. Liao;
18 Followed by Felix Rojas, a delivery worker.
19 AMY TAM-LIAO: Good afternoon.
20 SENATOR KENNEDY: Good afternoon.
21 SENATOR RAMOS: Good afternoon.
22 AMY TAM-LIAO: Hsi-Pei Liao is my husband,
23 so, if it's okay, I'm here.
24 SENATOR KENNEDY: Okay, that's wonderful.
25 AMY TAM-LIAO: Okay.
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1 So my name is Amy Tam-Liao.
2 Our daughter Allison Hope Liao was killed by
3 a reckless driver making a left turn in Flushing,
4 Queens, in 2013. She was 3 years old.
5 This is her (indicating to shirt).
6 Since then, my husband and I have been active
7 members of Families for Safe Streets.
8 We are made up of families who have lost
9 loved ones in traffic violence and survivors who
10 were severely injured by reckless drivers on
11 New York City streets.
12 We came together to turn our grief into
13 action, and we advocate for safer streets for
14 everyone.
15 I'm here because we want people to understand
16 the magnitude of handling a multi-ton vehicle that
17 is, essentially, a weapon on the streets that can
18 and has killed people.
19 It is imperative to encourage people to get
20 out of their cars and consider other safer modes of
21 transportation.
22 Every day, the drop-off and pick-up period at
23 our son's school in Fresh Meadows is horrific and
24 I fear tragedy will happen.
25 Vehicles in front of the school triple park,
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1 drive the wrong way, and nobody can hear the
2 crossing guard above the honking.
3 To alleviate the situation and prevent
4 another family from experiencing an unimaginable
5 nightmare, we need parents to consider alternative
6 ways of transportation, which is why our school
7 participates in National Bike and Walk to School
8 Day.
9 Twice a year we encourage families to walk,
10 bike, scoot, to school.
11 It's healthier, better for the environment,
12 alleviates the congestion, and it's for the kids.
13 We also hear from the school administration
14 that families continue to go to school without using
15 motor vehicles for weeks after each event.
16 We are also the typical family that drove our
17 kids one mile to school.
18 However, since we started biking with our
19 legal pedal-assist bike, it has now empowered our
20 family to bike to school on a regular basis, and
21 it's easier to carry two children on a single bike.
22 We also ride through the playground, and can
23 take our time when dropping off the kids at the side
24 of the school where there's no cars.
25 It's difficult to understand why we are
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1 debating the safety of e-bikes and e-scooters when
2 cars kill over 200 people a year in New York City
3 alone.
4 While there doesn't seem to be sufficient
5 data, we know the death rate by e-bikes and
6 e-scooters is dwarfed in comparison to death rates
7 caused by motor vehicles.
8 We said, and you answered this: Do I need to
9 ask, if you are involved in a crash as a pedestrian,
10 would you rather be hit by a car or an e-bike?
11 Thank you for listening to my perspective on
12 why electric bikes and scooters can be a safer and
13 empowering mode of transportation.
14 And we hope one day you will see our family
15 riding to school with e-scooters.
16 Thank you.
17 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you.
18 [Applause.]
19 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you, Mrs. Liao.
20 First of all, our condolences on the loss of
21 your daughter.
22 AMY TAM-LIAO: Thank you.
23 SENATOR KENNEDY: And thank you for taking up
24 this charge.
25 Just yesterday, in the Senate, we passed
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1 nine bills dealing with limousine safety in the
2 state of New York, and that legislation only
3 happened because the families who had lost loved
4 ones in limousine crashes galvanized behind the
5 initiative to make the industry safer.
6 And it was a credit to them, and this is a
7 credit to you, for picking up the torch and carrying
8 it on.
9 So, thank you very, very much for your
10 advocacy.
11 Senator Ramos.
12 SENATOR RAMOS: Yeah, Amy, thank you so much
13 for your advocacy.
14 You may not know this, but, when Allison was
15 killed, and we organized a rally, with what would
16 become Make Queens Safer, in Jackson Heights, I was
17 there that night.
18 And it's actually, starting that night, where
19 I became involved and much more opinionated about
20 alternatives to transportation, and really have --
21 I've tried to make it a point to ensure I'm telling
22 constituents at every turn, how important it is to
23 yield to pedestrians when they're going to turn.
24 As many of you know, on Northern Boulevard,
25 not only on this side, but, on my side of
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1 Northern Boulevard in District 13, we lost so many
2 children.
3 If memory serves me right, it's eight or nine
4 children who have been killed by drivers who have
5 failed to yield when they were crossing the street,
6 holding their parent's hand, with a green light
7 telling them that they can go.
8 So I really think that, as we work to reverse
9 car culture, especially in very dense neighborhoods,
10 I think it's really important that your advocacy is
11 steadfast and everlasting, because it's the only way
12 that we will be able to change the way we use our
13 streets and make sure that we're keeping everyone
14 safe.
15 So thank you, Amy.
16 AMY TAM-LIAO: Thank you.
17 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you, Mrs.~Liao.
18 [Applause.]
19 SENATOR KENNEDY: Next we will hear from
20 Felix Rojas.
21 Is Felix with us?
22 Felix Rojas?
23 MEL GONZALEZ: Hi, you all.
24 SENATOR KENNEDY: Are you filling in for
25 Felix?
128
1 MEL GONZALEZ: Yes.
2 SENATOR KENNEDY: Okay.
3 MEL GONZALEZ: He couldn't make it.
4 SENATOR KENNEDY: Before you get started, let
5 me just announce that the next speaker will be
6 Marco Connor from Transportation Alternatives.
7 SENATOR KENNEDY: Okay?
8 MEL GONZALEZ: Great.
9 SENATOR KENNEDY: The floor is yours.
10 MEL GONZALEZ: Thank you.
11 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you.
12 MEL GONZALEZ: My name is Mel Gonzalez, and
13 I'm a legal fellow at Make the Road New York.
14 At Make the Road we see hundreds of workers
15 every day, so these comments are based on our
16 experience working closely with delivery workers
17 year after year.
18 Delivery workers are part of a food industry
19 in New York that now thoroughly depends on the use
20 of e-bikes, an evolution in the industry that this
21 city has benefited from over a decade.
22 The proliferation of e-bikes arose as a
23 response to intensely growing demand for delivery.
24 As a consequence, over 50,000 delivery
25 workers, predominantly immigrants, now provide
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1 hundreds of thousands of deliveries of food daily in
2 New York City.
3 Restaurants can now make more profits by
4 making more deliveries, or customers can get orders
5 hot, more quickly, and from a broader range of
6 restaurants.
7 The industry has become so dependent on
8 e-bikes that delivery workers report that most
9 restaurant require them to have an e-bike in order
10 to get a job, despite the fact that they have been
11 criminalized for using e-bikes all the while.
12 Year after year, delivery workers routinely
13 have their e-bikes confiscated by the police while
14 they are working, and are ticketed millions of
15 dollars in fines, collectively, for using e-bikes to
16 do their job.
17 It is worth noting that, under current state
18 and city laws, a delivery worker using an e-bike can
19 get up to four tickets in a single stop and have
20 their e-bikes confiscated, totaling up to 1,000,
21 just for using an e-bike.
22 Although restaurants benefit from, and often
23 require, the use of e-bikes, they have remained
24 relatively free from shouldering any of these
25 burdens; thus, workers responding to demands placed
130
1 on them by employers and by an industry rampant with
2 insecurity and wage theft have reasonably shouldered
3 the burden of purchasing e-bikes in order to obtain
4 their jobs and to make a decent living.
5 Take a moment to consider how many things you
6 can purchase at a store, and yet can get hundreds in
7 fines for using.
8 I cannot think of a single thing like that.
9 Why do we criminalize workers for buying
10 something they're obligated to buy and that they can
11 go buy at a local store?
12 Why aren't manufacturers on the hook?
13 Why aren't stores on the hook?
14 Why aren't employers on the hook?
15 And, ultimately, why is New York State
16 capitalizing on this, all the while assessing
17 millions of dollars per year against workers?
18 It's also worth noting that delivery workers
19 themselves believe that throttle bikes are safer
20 than pedal-assist bikes, because throttles allow
21 workers to graduate the bike's acceleration instead
22 of having the motor turn on or off abruptly.
23 And this is the kind of nitty-gritty detail
24 that hasn't really been given any light because
25 workers themselves have not been asked about their
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1 use of e-bikes, and they, who have been using them
2 for over 10 years, are the real experts on e-bikes.
3 New York State has not been innocent in this
4 regard either.
5 The state legislature's routes of silence and
6 inability to legalize e-bikes has perpetuated and
7 exacerbated these issues.
8 On the one hand, electeds in New York City
9 have been able to punt on this issue for years now,
10 stating that they simply cannot do anything until
11 the State has acted.
12 Even this year, when, finally, city electeds
13 rose to the task, officials have posed indef --
14 paused indefinitely in order to wait for State
15 action.
16 Meanwhile, for years, NYPD has capitalized on
17 the gray area of state law to dole out millions of
18 dollars in fines against workers on the unjust
19 state-level charges of unlicensed operator,
20 unregistered vehicle, and lack of insurance.
21 Yet NYPD knows that you cannot register
22 e-bikes at the DMV, and they know that, not only do
23 e-bikes not require licenses to utilize them,
24 undocumented individuals, who comprise the vast
25 majority of delivery workers, cannot get driver's
132
1 licenses.
2 And, finally, you simply cannot get insurance
3 to cover your e-bike use even if you wanted to.
4 Overall, then any cop that sees a delivery
5 worker on an e-bike can count on giving at least
6 three state tickets and one city ticket, and
7 confiscate the workers' bikes.
8 As we showed earlier in the press conference,
9 a worker today showed up, with having gotten four
10 tickets just this morning.
11 You know, a huge role of tickets (indicating)
12 printed out today by an officer in his car, as he
13 came here to testify in support of legalizing
14 e-bikes.
15 Worse, these tickets could lead to
16 devastating consequences for immigrant workers,
17 another issue that hasn't been given a lot of light.
18 Those tickets I just referenced can lead a
19 worker to have their driving privileges suspended
20 even if they don't have a license.
21 In addition to additional fines, a worker who
22 subsequently gets another such ticket can then be
23 charged with a misdemeanor, or even a felony, again,
24 simply for not having a license they cannot get, but
25 that they need for their job.
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1 These charges can then lead to immigration
2 issues, particularly for those workers seeking
3 immigration relief.
4 Again, these are working individuals
5 obligated to use e-bikes by employers, and expected
6 to use e-bikes by customers, including you and me,
7 who simply, by virtue of doing that job, may not
8 only amass significant debts, but may be placed in
9 immigration jeopardy.
10 Finally, I want to address an issue that
11 workers themselves have stated over and over again.
12 This is an issue that speaks directly to the
13 fundamental unfairness of the situation, a form of
14 hypocrisy that workers feel every day they are out
15 delivering food.
16 Simply put, if you order delivery, you are
17 benefiting from the use of e-bikes; therefore, most
18 of us are complicit in the criminalization of
19 delivery workers and should feel the obligation to
20 help these workers.
21 Many of the most vocal opponents of electric
22 bicycles and who express the most animosity towards
23 delivery workers, themselves go home and order
24 delivery.
25 We simply cannot abide by this hypocrisy any
134
1 longer. We cannot both benefit from e-bikes and
2 criminalize their use.
3 The issues individuals around this city may
4 have regarding e-bikes and delivery workers cannot
5 be addressed by criminalizing workers, which has
6 simply extracted millions of dollars from some of
7 the most vulnerable workers in this city.
8 It's now time for New York State to address
9 this issue.
10 Thank you.
11 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you.
12 Senator Ramos.
13 SENATOR RAMOS: I've now heard, in countless
14 testimonies, about how many restaurants require that
15 their delivery workers own an e-bike.
16 When that worker receives a ticket or more
17 for said e-bike, in your experience, have any of
18 those restaurants offered to foot the bill in any
19 way, shape, or form?
20 MEL GONZALEZ: In my experience, zero
21 restaurants have done that, ever.
22 That's a responsibility that workers
23 shoulder, just like they have the responsibility to
24 buy the e-bikes.
25 If a bike gets stolen, the workers have to
135
1 buy a new bike.
2 It's always going to be the workers'
3 responsibility.
4 SENATOR RAMOS: But the restaurant,
5 obviously, won't hire someone who is going to do
6 deliveries on a regular bicycle because they can't
7 perform as many deliveries.
8 MEL GONZALEZ: Yeah, definitely.
9 In fact, when folks have gotten their bikes
10 confiscated, and even if there's a one-day lag
11 between when they get their bike confiscated and
12 they go and buy a new bike, you know, if they can
13 afford it, they might be fired. Even if it's just
14 for one day, they might have to go get another job.
15 SENATOR RAMOS: Okay.
16 Thank you so much for your testimony.
17 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you very much.
18 MEL GONZALEZ: Thank you.
19 SENATOR KENNEDY: Next we will hear from
20 Marco Connor, Transportation Alternatives;
21 Followed by Christine Berthet, Manhattan
22 Community Board 4.
23 MARCO CONNOR: Thank you, Chairman.
24 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you, Marco.
25 MARCO CONNOR: Thank you, Chairman.
136
1 Thank you, Senator Ramos.
2 My name is Marco Connor.
3 I am interim co-executive director of the
4 Transportation Alternatives, and I am here today to
5 express and register our strong support for Senate
6 Bill 5924, to legalize e-bikes and e-scooters in
7 New York.
8 For 45 years, Transportation Alternatives
9 have advocated on behalf of New Yorkers for safer,
10 more inclusive and more livable streets.
11 With more than 150,000 people in our network
12 and over 1,000 activists throughout all five
13 boroughs, we fight to promote biking, walking, and
14 public transportation as alternatives to the car.
15 Shared-use mobility services, including
16 e-bikes and e-scooters, are part of our vision for
17 human-centered equitable streets and transportation
18 in New York City.
19 Sadly, the racial disparities and police
20 officer discretion against food workers --
21 food-delivery workers is reminiscent of the NYPD's
22 Broken Window/Stop and Frisk policing against Black
23 and Brown New Yorkers, which was declared
24 unconstitutional in 2013.
25 New York City's targeting of Spanish- and
137
1 Chinese-speaking food-delivery workers is recreating
2 the darkest days of the NYPD's racially disparate
3 policing, and none of us should be content until
4 this is rectified.
5 On a technical note for this legislation, we
6 urge that the legislation stipulate that fines
7 levied for illegal use of an e-bike during the
8 course of work, including commuting on such e-bike,
9 must go to the employer or place of business paying
10 the user.
11 Similarly, the legislation should stipulate
12 that confiscation of e-bikes by any local authority
13 is prohibited.
14 Such provisions are critical.
15 We also call upon the state Senate to
16 legalize e-scooters.
17 Both e-scooters and e-bikes are
18 environmentally superior to cars. They are proven
19 to replace car trips at significant rates, which
20 reduces traffic congestion and allows us to breathe
21 cleaner air, and make our streets safer overall.
22 More than half of our trips in New York City
23 in cars are under 3 miles long.
24 These trips are perfect to make by bike and
25 scooter instead, leaving our streets cleaner and
138
1 safer.
2 Now, I also want to speak briefly to the
3 safety concerns.
4 Since 2001, more than 6,000 people have been
5 killed on New York City streets in traffic. Nearly
6 every single one of those fatalities were caused by
7 multi-ton cars and trucks capable of reaching speeds
8 exceeding 100 miles per hour, several times more the
9 fastest e-bikes.
10 Cars and trucks are the cause of the carnage
11 on our streets and is where our restrictive policies
12 should be focused, not on small, safe,
13 energy-efficient electric devices which should be
14 promoted through public policy.
15 Based on the so-called "safety in numbers"
16 effect, which shows that, as cycling rights grow,
17 the risk to cyclists decreases, a growing presence
18 of e-bike and scooter users on New York City streets
19 will likely benefit the safety of all bicyclists and
20 vulnerable road users, including pedestrians.
21 Therefore, the explicit growth in using these
22 devices should be supported by state and local
23 policy.
24 Because the use of these devices should be
25 encouraged, we strongly oppose adding any helmet use
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1 and insurance requirements to this legislation,
2 which would be detrimental to encouraging the use of
3 e-bikes and e-scooters, and would be
4 disproportionate to the potential level of harm, and
5 which would further -- which would be used even
6 further to target police -- policing of workers.
7 Today's e-bike policy in New York City
8 remains detached from public-health and safety data,
9 and its disproportionate impact on low-wage
10 immigrant workers, makes it unacceptable for the
11 fairest big city in the country.
12 E-bikes alone are already legal in more than
13 30 U.S. states, including nearby New Jersey.
14 Sensible legalization of these devices will
15 benefit workers, businesses, and everyday
16 New Yorkers alike, and we urge the state legislature
17 to pass these bills without delay.
18 Thank you.
19 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Connor.
20 [Applause.]
21 SENATOR KENNEDY: I have a quick question,
22 and then I'm going to turn it over to Senator Ramos.
23 You had mentioned that you feel that any
24 worker that is ticketed or penalized in the
25 community, that that ticket should go to the
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1 employer.
2 Are you at all concerned that if that
3 happens, that the employer will actually -- it will
4 actually disincentivize the employer from allowing
5 these e-bikes to be used by the employees?
6 MARCO CONNOR: I doubt that will happen.
7 We know that restaurants have an interest in
8 delivering as many food-delivery orders as possible
9 and as fast as possible.
10 And we've heard from workers that e-bikes
11 allow them to do that.
12 So we feel that such a provision and a
13 requirement would only incentivize employers to make
14 sure that their workers use e-bikes that are legal,
15 which will promote safety.
16 SENATOR KENNEDY: Well, the goal of the
17 legislation is to legalize the e-bikes, but I just
18 want to be clear, because if -- if -- you had asked
19 that part of the legislation be putting the onus on
20 the employers.
21 That is a concern that I hear, and
22 I understand the meaning behind it, and the --
23 conceptually, to take the burden off of the workers
24 that can't afford these tickets.
25 If the legislation is enacted, these bikes
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1 being then legal, will ultimately eradicate these
2 tickets, these $500 tickets.
3 MARCO CONNOR: Yeah, so that's -- that's the
4 goal. Right?
5 But, you know, there's going to be an interim
6 period of certain months, maybe even years, where
7 there may be some types of e-bikes out there that do
8 not meet the requirements or the definitions of what
9 a "legal e-bike" is and what is being passed.
10 So that's the concern; it's to ensure that,
11 when this legislation becomes law, when it becomes
12 active, that food-delivery workers will not suffer
13 these penalties or complications.
14 SENATOR KENNEDY: So you have no concern that
15 an employer will say, you can come work for me, but
16 no e-bikes, because --
17 MARCO CONNOR: I doubt --
18 SENATOR KENNEDY: -- if you get a ticket, I'm
19 paying it?
20 MARCO CONNOR: I doubt that will happen.
21 SENATOR KENNEDY: I disagree.
22 MARCO CONNOR: Yeah.
23 SENATOR KENNEDY: But that's quite all right,
24 it's a democracy.
25 MARCO CONNOR: So I'll --
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1 SENATOR KENNEDY: But thank you for your
2 testimony, though.
3 I'm going to turn it over to Senator Ramos.
4 SENATOR RAMOS: Did you want to say
5 something?
6 MARCO CONNOR: No, I just want to add that,
7 you know, the concern is -- is that, we want to make
8 sure that when it becomes law, that during the
9 interim period of a few months or years, that
10 workers will actually benefit from the law that is
11 passed.
12 SENATOR KENNEDY: Yeah, definitely, that will
13 be taken into consideration.
14 Thank you.
15 MARCO CONNOR: Thank you.
16 SENATOR KENNEDY: Senator Ramos.
17 SENATOR RAMOS: Marco, Transportation
18 Alternatives has been fighting for bicyclists for
19 such a long time.
20 And some of the concerns that I've heard is
21 largely around the sharing of bike lanes and
22 infrastructure, because, obviously, e-bikes are
23 heavier, larger, faster.
24 So can you speak a little bit to whether
25 those concerns are valid or not, based on
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1 Transportation Alternatives' research and expertise
2 on the matter?
3 How -- how -- how would that culture of
4 bike-sharing work?
5 MARCO CONNOR: Yeah, as we see it, right now
6 there is an inequitable allocation of street space
7 in our city, where cars are given 80 percent of
8 space on the streets, either for moving them or for
9 storing them, with cars sitting idle for 95 percent
10 of the time. Right?
11 When you look at places throughout
12 New York City, you see pedestrians, bicyclists,
13 essentially, squeezed to the side.
14 So the issues that you're raising, the
15 concerns that we do hear, and people's concerns
16 should always be heeded, we don't believe it's a
17 matter of pitting pedestrians against bicyclists, or
18 pedestrians and bicyclists against e-bike users.
19 This is a matter of reclaiming some of the
20 space that actually used to belong to pedestrians,
21 where we could actually walk from -- throughout most
22 of the city, and not having to fear being struck and
23 injured by multi-ton vehicles.
24 So, right now, there's an inequitable
25 distribution and allocation of that street space,
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1 and it is simply a matter of poor design if our
2 streets cannot accommodate these sustainable,
3 healthier, far-less dangerous means of
4 transportation.
5 And so that is what the City should be
6 focusing on. It should actually, through redesign,
7 accommodate and promote the use of these devices.
8 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you.
9 And, logistically, and part in the
10 non sequitur here, if we are legalizing e-bikes and
11 e-scooters, what about charge stations for these
12 vehicles?
13 Do you feel that there is enough
14 availability?
15 Can we be doing more to support people in
16 their decision to adapt to carbon-free modes of
17 transportation?
18 MARCO CONNOR: Yeah, we can do so much more.
19 Again, you know, these are devices that the
20 City and the State should actually promote. They
21 should actively help getting people to use them, and
22 to use them instead of using multi-ton cars. Right?
23 This is good public-health policy.
24 The City has 80 x 50 environmental goals that
25 we need to reach to reduce carbon emissions.
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1 We have a crisis of people being killed in
2 our streets. We're trying to reach Vision Zero, and
3 reducing, to zero, the number of people killed and
4 seriously injured.
5 These device can help us get there.
6 And we are, as a city and as a state, we are
7 putting up electric charging stations for multi-ton
8 electric cars, right, but we are not yet doing the
9 same for these devices.
10 And much more can certainly be done.
11 You can reappropriate certain car parking
12 spaces near intersections for parking of e-scooters
13 and e-bikes, and you can also have charging stations
14 there.
15 There already are efforts under way to use
16 parking garages, and kind of repurposing some of the
17 space in parking garages for the charging and
18 parking of e-bikes and e-scooters.
19 And that is something that the City should,
20 and State should, actively promote.
21 SENATOR RAMOS: Okay. Thank you.
22 MARCO CONNOR: Thank you.
23 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you very much for
24 your testimony.
25 Next we are going to hear --
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1 [Applause.]
2 -- from Christine Berthet from Manhattan
3 Community Board 4.
4 Good afternoon, Christine.
5 And following Christine's testimony, we're
6 going to hear from the industry panel: From Lime,
7 Phil Jones; from Bird, Ed Fu; from Spin, Will Burns;
8 and from Bolt, Will Nicholas.
9 The floor is yours.
10 Thank you.
11 CHRISTINE BERTHET: Thank you so much,
12 Senator Ramos.
13 My name is Christine Berthet.
14 I'm the co-chair of transportation committee
15 from CB 4 -- Manhattan CB 4.
16 The Hells Kitchen District of Manhattan CB 4
17 has a large concentration of restaurants and
18 delivery workers.
19 And CB 4, also, we are lucky to have many
20 bike lanes, and which are heavily used by commuters
21 and delivery workers.
22 So I'd like to separate some issues.
23 The first one is, the bike delivery workers
24 are an important segment of our diverse population
25 and provide valued service.
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1 And we want them to have a decent life. We
2 want them to be part of our community.
3 And we think the State should pass laws that
4 require their employers to pay fair wages, as the
5 council did successfully about Uber drivers,
6 restaurant workers, and no cash -- you know,
7 car-wash workers.
8 I mean, it just breaks my heart to hear
9 people say, I have to go and run everywhere in --
10 you know, sometime, maybe a little carelessly, in
11 order to make a living.
12 And I think that's not right, and we should
13 really take care of that as a base issue.
14 The second one is, getting a driver's license
15 should be absolutely based on one's ability to drive
16 safely in the city, and the bike delivery workers
17 should be able to get a driver's license as long as
18 they pass the test.
19 And I understand that Governor Pataki was the
20 one who changed that sometime ago.
21 And it should be reversed asap so they are
22 treated the same way as if --
23 SENATOR RAMOS: We're trying.
24 CHRISTINE BERTHET: -- I know.
25 Thank you so much.
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1 Okay, and then, finally, based on everything
2 we have heard today, I think, no matter what
3 happened to this legislation, the level of fines and
4 the ability of the NYPD to capture their bikes
5 should be removed.
6 Even if the bike were illegal, I think we
7 should not have this total abuse of power.
8 And I feel that NYPD behavior is disgraceful
9 and shameful vis-a-vis those immigrant workers.
10 And -- and, by the way, if there was a
11 passage of the law, I think they should have an
12 amnesty of what they had to pay in the last
13 X months, or whatever, because I think this is very
14 unfair.
15 So, now, let's focus on transportation
16 policy.
17 And I think -- you know, I've always had a
18 hard time understanding this legislation, because
19 I feel, and maybe I'm wrong, that, you know, the
20 Class 2 e-bikes are already legal. They're,
21 essentially, electric moped.
22 You have a moped, it's electric.
23 Today it's not -- it's an engine, you know.
24 But if it was electric, you have a moped,
25 it's legal.
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1 You have to have a -- you know, you have to
2 have a license and registration. The driver has to
3 wear a helmet and not ride in a bike lane.
4 That's what an "electric moped" is.
5 So my question is: In this new legislation,
6 if we want to be careful about how we implement it,
7 what of those protections should be removed?
8 And -- and I think what is being proposed
9 here, is that we have a legislation that doesn't
10 require helmet; doesn't allow us to go in the bike
11 lane; allows us to go to 28 miles per hour, even
12 though the law is 25 miles per hour.
13 So I don't know why "28" is the right number.
14 SENATOR RAMOS: Statewide.
15 CHRISTINE BERTHET: Huh?
16 SENATOR RAMOS: State.
17 That's why they're --
18 CHRISTINE BERTHET: Oh, oh (indiscernible
19 cross-talking).
20 SENATOR RAMOS: -- we're allowing the city to
21 decide what they want to do.
22 CHRISTINE BERTHET: Got it, got it.
23 Okay.
24 So, that's that.
25 The electric moped riders currently require a
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1 license.
2 I would advocate that the electric bicycle
3 should get a license, and -- because when you are
4 driving at a certain speed, you should know the
5 rules of the road.
6 And, essentially, because, today, a number of
7 drivers of these vehicles may not come from the same
8 culture and have different rules in their country.
9 You know, I've been in Mexico and other
10 countries, and people go against the flow and it's
11 fine, you know.
12 And I don't expect people coming to this
13 country, as I did a long time ago, and understand
14 all the bills and all the rules of the road.
15 And I think training and education that I say
16 is a license is what I'm looking for; a lot of
17 training, a lot of education, before you go on, you
18 know, driving those electric bikes, not necessarily
19 for the existing users, which have proven to be very
20 sensible. But for more users which may not be as
21 sensible.
22 And the question about using the bike lane is
23 an important one also, because, I mean, the space,
24 the space in the bike lane.
25 I've used -- I've heard normal bikers, and
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1 you just mentioned that, that thing that would be an
2 issue.
3 I can tell you, on 9th Avenue and 8th Avenue,
4 we have a lot of bikes.
5 And how big is the equipment and how fast can
6 it go, and is it compatible?
7 I would advocate for doing wider bike lanes,
8 and having, you know, a fast lane and a slow lane.
9 So, as far as scooters, we -- our key concern
10 is scooters on the sidewalks.
11 And we request that a ride-sharing company
12 must install scooter parkings in the parking lane
13 and, you know, charging stations, to prevent
14 scooters to be left on the sidewalks.
15 Thank you.
16 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you very much,
17 Ms. Berthet.
18 Any questions?
19 SENATOR RAMOS: I guess, let me begin by
20 thanking you for your service.
21 I'm a former community board member, so
22 I know how important it is to have the level of
23 dedication to liaise between city agencies and your
24 neighbors.
25 I take that you've traveled all the way to
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1 Queens because there, perhaps, have been complaints,
2 or concerns, from mem -- from residents of your
3 community board, from the catchment of the community
4 board? Is that correct?
5 CHRISTINE BERTHET: Yes.
6 SENATOR RAMOS: Would that be --
7 CHRISTINE BERTHET: And also because --
8 SENATOR RAMOS: -- the impetus for your
9 (indiscernible cross-talking) --
10 CHRISTINE BERTHET: Also because I'm very
11 dedicated to transportation safety.
12 SENATOR RAMOS: Personally?
13 CHRISTINE BERTHET: Right, personally.
14 SENATOR RAMOS: And what position do you have
15 on the community board?
16 CHRISTINE BERTHET: I'm the co-chair of the
17 transportation committee.
18 I'm a former chair of the community board.
19 And I have a non-profit on pedestrian safety.
20 SENATOR RAMOS: Very good.
21 So thank you for your advocacy on
22 transportation safety.
23 Has your community board passed any
24 resolutions, or made any formal or informal
25 suggestions, as to what a safety plan would look
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1 like for these -- for e-bike riders or e-scooters
2 riders?
3 CHRISTINE BERTHET: Well, I think we gave you
4 our resolution, so it's in our testimony. You have
5 that somewhere.
6 But I think, you know, limiting the speed is
7 one of the things that we would be way more
8 comfortable. Like, having a speed governor at
9 15 miles per hour.
10 So it would be -- the operation would be less
11 painful, you know, less, you know, heavy on the
12 user, but the speed wouldn't be such a differential
13 with a normal bike.
14 And that's something.
15 Plus, I think education is something that our
16 community board is very anxious to do.
17 We have, with bicyclists, as well as -- any
18 bicyclists, electric or not, we have a lot of issues
19 of conformance to the rules of the road.
20 And, although I'm not in favor of tremendous
21 enforcement, I don't think this is the right way to
22 do it, I would rather have the proper education at
23 the beginning.
24 SENATOR RAMOS: No, I understand, and I agree
25 with, you know, putting safety at the forefront
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1 of -- of everything we do as it relates to
2 transportation.
3 And I guess the last thing that I want to do
4 is ask you for the favor of, since now you've sat
5 here and heard all of these stories from delivery
6 workers, that when your neighbors bring up their
7 concerns for quality of life that sometimes come out
8 of a lot of privilege, right, because they're able
9 to be much more concerned about things that -- or,
10 sorry, be less concerned about things that delivery
11 workers have to do to put food on the table, and
12 that sort of thing, that you're able to relay to
13 your neighbors in Manhattan and Community Board 4,
14 the perils and the struggle that these workers
15 experience on a day-to-day basis.
16 That while there are quality-of-life
17 concerns, there's actually no data to support that
18 e-bikes are dangerous.
19 And so calling the police on them, and things
20 like that, aren't necessarily the best way to deal
21 with the issue.
22 All you're doing is, really, putting
23 undocumented immigrants in harm's way.
24 CHRISTINE BERTHET: We have had formal
25 discussion, sit-down with the police, on those
155
1 issues. And we have specifically asked them to
2 enforce certain things, but not others, like, you
3 know, going the wrong way in the bike lane, which is
4 somewhat dangerous, and people feel.
5 But that has nothing to do with e-bikes.
6 It's about any bicyclist who does those
7 specific things.
8 And riding on the sidewalk.
9 I have to tell you that I've been hit
10 recently by an electric bike on the sidewalk.
11 It's a little scary. I mean, you know --
12 SENATOR RAMOS: When did you get hit?
13 CHRISTINE BERTHET: Like, probably, you know,
14 one month ago.
15 SENATOR RAMOS: And what happened to you?
16 CHRISTINE BERTHET: Nothing; nothing happened
17 to me. It was not that kind of encounter, but I was
18 physically hit.
19 And there are a lot of people -- so, you
20 know, if you are hit, and I've been hit on the
21 sidewalk by a bike, a normal bike, so it's the same
22 thing.
23 I have a lot of affinities with bike. I'm
24 not against bikes in any way.
25 I'm just saying, this is, certainly, if
156
1 somebody is fragile and not comfortable and older,
2 it's a very scary -- but that's not the average --
3 that is not our average.
4 And, by the way, our neighborhood is not very
5 rich, so people don't have a lot of privilege.
6 We have a lot of affordable housing.
7 SENATOR RAMOS: What neighborhoods are
8 Community Board 4?
9 CHRISTINE BERTHET: Hells Kitchen for --
10 Hells Kitchen has always been a very, you know,
11 middle class or lower class, which is the reason we
12 don't have a lot of cars, and people are not very
13 excited about cars.
14 SENATOR RAMOS: What's the cost to rent a
15 two-bedroom apartment in Hells Kitchen right now?
16 CHRISTINE BERTHET: It's very expensive.
17 That's why we develop a lot of affordable
18 housing.
19 SENATOR RAMOS: Okay.
20 CHRISTINE BERTHET: We are a big, big
21 proponent.
22 So, anyway, the point is that, we would want
23 to find a way so that these things are rolled out in
24 a way that makes everybody comfortable.
25 And, right now, we are not completely there.
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1 SENATOR RAMOS: Okay.
2 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you, Ms. Berthet.
3 Senator John Liu would like to ask you a
4 question.
5 CHRISTINE BERTHET: Oh, I'm so sorry.
6 SENATOR LIU: That's okay, that's okay,
7 Christine.
8 Thank you.
9 Thank you.
10 SENATOR KENNEDY: I wouldn't want to answer
11 his questions either.
12 CHRISTINE BERTHET: I have answered a lot of
13 his questions in the past.
14 SENATOR KENNEDY: Yeah, yeah, me too.
15 I tend to try to get away from him as well.
16 SENATOR LIU: She -- Christine has been
17 testifying at these kinds of hearings for, to my
18 knowledge, 20 years, I think even more than that.
19 So she really is an expert on all
20 multimodal -- questions of multimodal transport.
21 CHRISTINE BERTHET: Thank you.
22 SENATOR LIU: So it's good to see you,
23 I think first time out of Manhattan?
24 CHRISTINE BERTHET: No, well, I frequently
25 come out of Manhattan.
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1 SENATOR LIU: To the airport?
2 CHRISTINE BERTHET: Yes.
3 No, no.
4 [Laughter.]
5 SENATOR LIU: Ha-ha-ha, just kidding.
6 Good to see you, Christine.
7 Thanks for testifying.
8 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you so much.
9 SENATOR KENNEDY: Next we're going to call up
10 the industry panel, again, from Lime, Bird, Spin,
11 and Bolt; Phil Jones, Ed Fu, Will Burns, and
12 Will Nicholas.
13 SENATOR RAMOS: Oh, we need more women in
14 this industry, guys.
15 OFF-CAMERA SPEAKER: (Inaudible.)
16 SENATOR RAMOS: All right, that's what I like
17 to hear.
18 SENATOR KENNEDY: Welcome, gentlemen.
19 PHIL JONES: So, thank you, Mr. Chair,
20 Senator Ramos, and Senator Liu.
21 Thank you for the privilege to speak today in
22 support of several pieces of important legislation
23 that are critical to New York, the mobility of its
24 residents, and the future of transportation systems
25 that serve all New Yorkers.
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1 I represent Lime.
2 We serve more than 100 markets on
3 5 continents, and have recorded more than 70 million
4 rides.
5 We provide dock-free scooters and e-bikes.
6 We also already serve New York through the
7 City Stock-Free Bike and E-Pilot Program right here
8 in Queens, in the Rockaways, and as well in
9 Staten Island.
10 Since that program began nearly a year ago,
11 we have completed over 142,000 dock-free bike rides
12 with more than 25,000 unique riders.
13 We also successfully partner with local
14 organizations to hire New York residents and conduct
15 safety workshops.
16 In addition, we operate popular programs in
17 Yonkers, White Plains, and Ithaca, with the support
18 of local officials, where we've actually done
19 60,000-plus unique rides -- with 60,000 unique
20 riders and 288,000 trips in less than a year.
21 Our record in New York illustrates the
22 ability of micromobility to improve transportation
23 equity.
24 About 70 percent of Lime riders in the city
25 identify as non-White;
160
1 61 percent earn $50,000 a year, or less;
2 And 40 percent identify as female, compared
3 to about 25 percent of city bike riders.
4 This legislation would yield similar results
5 state- and citywide.
6 As you know, millions of New Yorkers do not
7 live near mass transit, and those communities tend
8 to be of lower income and more diverse.
9 Pratt Center found that 750,000 New York City
10 residents who travel more than one hour each way to
11 work, two-thirds of which of them earn less than
12 $35,000 a year.
13 Dock-free e-bikes and scooters can help close
14 that distance, increase mobility, and improve the
15 quality of life for New Yorkers living in transit
16 deserts.
17 Consider the neighborhood we're sitting in
18 right now, Flushing. The population here is less
19 than 10 percent White, the average household income
20 is about $50,000, almost exactly the city average.
21 Flushing residents, essentially, have one
22 transportation option, the Flushing 7 Train Station,
23 which is consistently ranked the busiest stop
24 outside of Manhattan.
25 Every day, tens and thousands of low- and
161
1 medium-income workers crowd onto the platform.
2 Taking the bus, as you all know, would add
3 another 20 minutes, on average, to Manhattan.
4 Along with the stress and aggravation of that
5 commute, those Queens residents also lose money they
6 cannot afford to do when the train is late or
7 overcrowded.
8 Meanwhile, to the east and north are miles
9 and miles of Queens neighborhoods without even one
10 subway stop.
11 Millions more New Yorkers in The Bronx,
12 Brooklyn, Staten Island, and northern Manhattan also
13 are stranded.
14 Senate Bill 5294 and Assembly Bill 7431 would
15 give those New Yorkers a lifeline, allowing us and
16 other providers to offer e-bikes and e-scooters,
17 connecting them to underused bus routes, other
18 subway stops, and a direct route to work that is
19 reliable and affordable.
20 Only then can we deliver the best service
21 possible to close the transit equity gap while
22 guaranteeing safety, the most efficient
23 transportation system possible, for all New Yorkers.
24 Thank you, and I'm happy to be here today,
25 and answer your questions.
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1 SENATOR KENNEDY: Wonderful.
2 Thank you very much.
3 ED FU: Thank you very much for giving me the
4 opportunity to testify in support of 5294.
5 My name is Edward Fu.
6 I'm senior counsel for Bird, and head of our
7 nationwide legislative efforts.
8 And it's a real honor to testify here in
9 Flushing where my family has lived for decades.
10 And I want to briefly touch on three topics
11 today.
12 First, what the bill does;
13 Second, what the bill would do for
14 New York City;
15 And, third, street safety.
16 Senate Bill 5294 gives New Yorkers the choice
17 of riding an e-bike or an e-scooter. It defines
18 what they are, and treats them similar to bicycles,
19 letting them ride in bike lanes, and that they don't
20 have to be registered and titled.
21 It's same approach that's taken by dozens and
22 dozens of states across the country.
23 In particular, it emphasizes that cities have
24 regulatory authority over their streets, to control
25 them, to regulate them, to manage them, in the same
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1 way that they regulate bikes already.
2 For example, as my colleague mentioned, one
3 way that cities use e-bikes and e-scooters is to
4 tackle the issue of transportation equity; allowing
5 people who can't afford to live near mass transit to
6 shorten their commutes and spend more time with
7 their families.
8 In addition, cities are also starting to see
9 the impacts that e-bikes and e-scooters have on
10 sustainability.
11 In Bird's first year, more Americans rode on
12 shared scooters than on every bike-share in the
13 country, combined.
14 And what cities have found is that, of all
15 those Bird trips, over a third of them replace what
16 would have been a car trip.
17 And what that means is that, in every single
18 one of our cities, we're taking thousands of car
19 trips off of the street every single day.
20 If you can just imagine the impact that
21 thousands of cars has on congestion, on pollution,
22 on parking, and on safety, and then imagine being
23 able to get rid of that every day.
24 Finally, I want to add a few words on safety,
25 because, as some of the people today have already
164
1 mentioned, I think studies of e-bike and e-scooter
2 safety are starting to find that, when we talk about
3 safety, we're really talking about two distinct
4 concepts, and the first is individual safety.
5 E-bikes and e-scooters are new devices, and
6 sometimes riders, especially novice riders, when
7 they get on one, can fall off and hurt themselves.
8 The rate is low, but I think this is the area
9 in which the industry can always do better.
10 We can build better devices, we can have
11 better education, and we can work with cities to
12 build better infrastructure.
13 But then the second issue that's also called
14 "safety" is what really is referred to as "system
15 safety," or "safety to others."
16 And, here, there's no question where the real
17 danger -- or, where the real threat is.
18 Tens of thousands of Americans are killed by
19 cars every year.
20 And last year, about ten of them happened to
21 be on scooters, and these are called the "scooter
22 fatalities."
23 But I think what they really should be called
24 is "car fatalities," because it didn't matter that
25 the victim was on a scooter, or riding a bike, or
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1 walking.
2 What mattered was that a car hit them.
3 And blaming the victim's mode of
4 transportation feels completely backwards, because
5 it wasn't their choice of transportation mode that
6 killed them. It was someone else's.
7 At the end of the day, our streets are safer
8 when we have more people on bicycles and on scooters
9 than in cars.
10 We sit less than a mile away from
11 Allie Liao Way, a painful reminder of what an
12 irresponsible driver can do to a community.
13 Someone in New York City is injured or killed
14 by a car every 8 minutes, meaning that, during this
15 hearing, dozens more New Yorkers are going to be
16 injured and killed by cars, on average.
17 So if we're really serious about safety and
18 Vision Zero, we need to get people out of cars, and
19 Senate Bill 5294 is a great way of doing so, because
20 it legalizes two proven ways of reducing car trips
21 that dozens of already -- of other states have
22 already found have brought safety, equity, and
23 environmental benefits to their states.
24 And we hope that New York will do the same.
25 Thank you.
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1 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you.
2 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you.
3 WILL BURNS: Good afternoon,
4 Chairman Kennedy, Senator Ramos, and Senator Liu.
5 My name is Will Burns.
6 I'm here on behalf of Spin, a shared
7 micromobility company that is part of the Ford Motor
8 Company.
9 We thank you for your efforts to bring
10 e-scooters to New York State, and we appreciate the
11 opportunity to speak today in support of Senate
12 Bill 5294.
13 We are particularly supportive of this
14 legislation because we believe it embodies the most
15 important tenet of this industry, which is the
16 promotion of robust local authority for counties and
17 municipalities to regulate shared mobility according
18 to their particular needs.
19 We know that municipalities vary
20 significantly in size, political culture, road and
21 bike infrastructure, and attitudes toward
22 micromobility.
23 Even within cities, different neighborhoods
24 can have wildly different transportation needs and
25 wildly different approaches to meeting those needs.
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1 Consequently, it is imperative that municipal
2 and other local governments establish important
3 regulations for the safe and efficient usage of
4 shared e-scooters.
5 Senate Bill 5294 accomplishes this important
6 goal.
7 Municipalities can determine the number of
8 vendors that can operate, the number of shared
9 vehicles that can be deployed, where they are to be
10 used, and how they are to be parked.
11 We think it's important to talk a little bit
12 about parking for e-scooters because it's been one
13 of the more debated aspects of this new form of
14 mobility.
15 On behalf of the industry here before you
16 today, we are all working tirelessly with our city
17 partners to educate riders about appropriate
18 parking, hold riders accountable for poor parking,
19 coordinate customer-service requests to mitigate
20 improper parking, and work in a collaborative manner
21 to ensure our scooters are being used to benefit the
22 public.
23 While our individual processes may differ, we
24 all provide various in-application and on-scooter
25 features to mitigate irresponsible parking,
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1 including notifications and alerts, requiring riders
2 to photograph their parked scooter after their ride.
3 Spin also asks our users to rate how the
4 previous rider parked the scooter.
5 And riders who repeatedly violate rules are
6 subject to fines, suspensions, and bans.
7 Spin's all-W-2 workforce also helps ensure
8 that our local teams know the cities' deployment
9 rules, and allows us to hold our employees
10 accountable, and to better respond to reports of
11 improper parking.
12 In some jurisdictions where we operate,
13 parking corrals for scooters have been created to
14 promote compliant parking behavior.
15 And that is why we are proud to announce that
16 we've recently partnered with a solar-powered
17 charging-station company to provide what we think
18 may be a game-changer for parking.
19 This summer, in Ann Arbor, and Washington,
20 D.C., we will be piloting these charging stations
21 where Spin riders can find and park our scooters to
22 be charged, and we're eager to find out how it
23 influences our users' parking behavior.
24 We look forward to continue in collaboration,
25 and will be happy to any questions you may have.
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1 Thank you.
2 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you.
3 WILL NICHOLS: Hello.
4 My name is Will Nicholas, and I'm here with
5 Bolt Mobility.
6 We really appreciate you having us here
7 today.
8 Thank you, Senator Ramos, for sponsoring the
9 bill, and for -- Chairman Kennedy, for hosting this
10 hearing.
11 Bolt Mobility's mission is to work with
12 cities to create simple, safe, and sustainable
13 transportation solutions for all.
14 I echo the sentiments of my fellow
15 competitors, and in an effort to avoid duplicity,
16 I'll just touch on two of Bolt's considerations when
17 we run our business.
18 The first is safety, from a design
19 perspective, as well as an operational one, and then
20 I'll also touch on sustainability as well.
21 Bolt engineers our scooters from the ground
22 up with rider safety top of mind.
23 We use reflective yellow paint, large 10-inch
24 wheels, dual brakes, robust suspension systems,
25 aluminum frames, bright LED lights in the front and
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1 rear.
2 Also, our scooter riders can be just as
3 healthy at the end of the ride as when they started
4 it.
5 From an operational perspective, we hire,
6 like Spin, a full-time W-2 workforce that is
7 responsible for the health of our fleet;
8 rebalancing, recharging, and most importantly,
9 repairing our scooters, so that we can not only have
10 continuity of service, but reliability for every
11 ride.
12 From a sustainability perspective, I think
13 it's obvious that, you know, cars are not the
14 solution.
15 And in this country alone, 33 percent of
16 particulate matter that is, arguably, heating up
17 this earth, and, obviously, creating lung disease,
18 leukemia, and asthma, is all caused by the internal
19 combustion engine of the vehicles that crowd our
20 streets.
21 So I think it's prudent that the City of
22 New York, the State of New York, adopt legislation
23 that will encourage and embrace new forms of
24 technology, particularly ones that are electric and
25 sustainable.
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1 From another perspective, I'd like to touch
2 on the economic and financial sustainability of this
3 city and of this state.
4 It's imperative that the people who live and
5 work here are able to move around freely, and
6 transportation infrastructure is a really tough
7 challenge, and the systems that we have in place
8 today are largely inadequate.
9 So, I encourage you to pass this legislation
10 that I think is aligned and consistent with bills
11 and laws that are in other states and cities that
12 have embraced both e-scooters and e-bikes to the
13 benefit of their residents.
14 Thank you very much.
15 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you.
16 I have a number of questions, and I know my
17 colleagues will as well.
18 We have been waiting for the four of you to
19 come testify here today.
20 Many questions.
21 WILL NICHOLS: We're excited to be here.
22 SENATOR KENNEDY: I know, I know, I know, and
23 you waited quite a while. Thank you for your
24 patience.
25 So, first of all, we're talking about a
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1 number of things here today, but, in particular, the
2 legislation that legalizes e-bikes and e-scooters.
3 All of your respective corporations are
4 specific to e-scooters; is that accurate?
5 PHIL JONES: No, we have both.
6 SENATOR KENNEDY: You have both.
7 Do you all have both?
8 WILL BURNS: Currently we don't have both,
9 but we have submitted a proposal to a city to offer
10 e-bikes and e-scooters.
11 SENATOR KENNEDY: Okay, so Spin only has
12 scooters?
13 WILL BURNS: Currently, yes.
14 SENATOR KENNEDY: And Bird --
15 WILL NICHOLS: Bird (indicating).
16 SENATOR KENNEDY: -- oh, Bird has scooters?
17 ED FU: Bird, we currently have scooters.
18 And we have just announced the launch of
19 a new electric bicycle as well, called the
20 "Bird Cruiser."
21 SENATOR KENNEDY: Spin has...?
22 WILL BURNS: We currently only deploy
23 e-scooters, but we are looking to deploy e-bikes in
24 another jurisdiction.
25 SENATOR KENNEDY: And, Bolt?
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1 WILL NICHOLS: Currently, only e-scooters.
2 SENATOR KENNEDY: Okay.
3 E-scooters (indicting).
4 E-scooters (indicting).
5 And you do both.
6 PHIL JONES: Right, we currently have them
7 deployed around the world.
8 SENATOR KENNEDY: I'm sorry?
9 PHIL JONES: We currently have e-bikes and
10 pedal bikes deployed around the world.
11 SENATOR KENNEDY: Right.
12 PHIL JONES: Uh-huh.
13 SENATOR KENNEDY: And are you manufacturing
14 e-scooters as well?
15 PHIL JONES: We do, yes. We have both.
16 SENATOR KENNEDY: Okay, that's what I said.
17 So you do both?
18 PHIL JONES: Yes.
19 But we're current -- I just want to make sure
20 that you know we're currently operating e-bikes now.
21 SENATOR KENNEDY: I understand, I understand.
22 So where are your products manufactured?
23 Let's start there.
24 So why don't we start, in order of testimony,
25 why don't we start with Lime.
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1 Phil Jones, where --
2 PHIL JONES: Yes, most of the components of
3 our bikes and scooters are made in China.
4 SENATOR KENNEDY: China.
5 ED FU: That's accurate.
6 And we do assembly, design, and servicing in
7 the United States.
8 WILL BURNS: Currently, our products are made
9 in China.
10 But, being part of the Ford Motor Company,
11 we're looking to innovate new products here in the
12 U.S.
13 WILL NICHOLS: Designed here, and
14 manufactured in China. We do our final --
15 SENATOR KENNEDY: When you say "here," you
16 mean the U.S.?
17 WILL NICHOLS: Design our scooters here.
18 SENATOR KENNEDY: "Here," as in the U.S.?
19 WILL NICHOLS: Yes.
20 SENATOR KENNEDY: Where in the U.S.?
21 WILL NICHOLS: Miami Beach, Florida.
22 SENATOR KENNEDY: All right.
23 We want Lime, Bird, Spin, and Bolt to make an
24 investment in New York.
25 It's extremely important.
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1 We're talking about economy, we're talking
2 about jobs, we're talking about workers, we're
3 talking about manufacturing, and your companies that
4 at the forefront of this legislation.
5 You know, the fact that we're having this
6 meeting, and the fact that you're all here, I think
7 is indicative of your leadership and the leadership
8 of your respective corporations.
9 It is absolutely imperative that the
10 companies that you're here to represent look at
11 New York to make an investment.
12 It's essential, and I'll tell you why.
13 Because, as we are just beginning to
14 implement these e-bikes and e-scooters, and as we
15 are on the cusp of passing legislation to legalize
16 them in the state of New York, I think it is
17 extremely important we look at this with vision
18 toward the future: Where are we going to be, 5, 10,
19 20, 50, 100 years from now?
20 And as you're setting up routes in this
21 state, from a sales perspective, I think it's just
22 as important that you set up routes here from a
23 manufacturing perspective.
24 And I know all of the corporations that both
25 you represent are subsidiaries of larger
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1 corporations that, in many cases, already have a
2 footprint here in the state of New York.
3 So I think if you can bring a message back to
4 the corporate leadership, that the expectation is,
5 that you're manufacturing here as well, that would
6 be very much appreciated.
7 Where are your biggest obstacles, other
8 than --
9 Let's take New York and this legislation out
10 of the way. We all recognize that you're supportive
11 of the legislation.
12 -- in the implementation in the other cities,
13 and I know some of them, for instance, and you've
14 alluded to them in your testimony, parking, for
15 example.
16 I was just down in Washington, D.C.
17 I got to see it from my own eyes what I've
18 heard actually, unfortunately, some my colleagues
19 say is happening out in California, particularly
20 with the e-scooters.
21 And, again, you're trying to find solutions
22 to these issues, and where are they parked?
23 You know, Mr. Fu, you mentioned -- no, I'm
24 sorry.
25 Mr. Burns, you mentioned that you are
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1 looking into stacking stations, and that sort of
2 thing, the solar-powered docking stations.
3 You know, today, when -- where they don't
4 exist.
5 And, also, how the users park, and then
6 getting the next user to score the previous user's
7 parking.
8 Well, if these e-scooters are sitting on a
9 particular sidewalk or street corner or in a park,
10 or wherever they may be, and that's part of the
11 enticement behind the whole program, I suppose,
12 industry, what's to say somebody couldn't just take
13 one of those e-scooters and, themselves, throw it
14 into the middle of the street, so that the next user
15 comes along and says, The last user was a
16 terrible -- parked it terribly?
17 And I suppose -- it's a larger question, and
18 I don't expect you to have all the answers. But I'm
19 throwing out questions that are coming our way.
20 The other issue, e-scooters in particular,
21 happens to be with, again, as they're coming online
22 and they are becoming more commonplace in other
23 communities across the country, and there are more
24 and more of them, they, in some ways, saturate
25 certain areas of the community and become a bit of a
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1 blight, for lack of a better word.
2 WILL BURNS: Yeah, so, Senator, I think those
3 are all excellent questions.
4 And let me begin by answering the question by
5 saying, I was a member of the Chicago City Council
6 for about five years, and so I understand how
7 congested our streets are and sidewalks are, and how
8 contested they are for different users.
9 So I think there are a couple of answers to
10 the question.
11 First of all, we think it's -- Spin --
12 I can't speak for others at the table.
13 -- we think there should -- cities should
14 consider caps on the number of scooters that can be
15 deployed, and limits of the number of vendors who
16 can operate, within a jurisdiction, and, that way,
17 you control the total number of scooters that can be
18 deployed at any time.
19 I also think -- we also support requirements
20 for companies to deploy scooters in communities that
21 are transit deserts and require access to scooters.
22 And that -- and, also, limits on the number
23 of scooters that can be deployed in, say, for
24 example, the central business district.
25 Those are all things that can -- those are
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1 all tools in the tool box that a city can use to
2 manage a scooter fleet.
3 We also believe that cities should be getting
4 real data from each company, to know how many rides
5 per day are occurring with scooters, before they
6 give additional scooters to any company.
7 Right?
8 So those are some of the things that can be
9 done.
10 I've seen, in Washington D.C., you mentioned
11 that, we are audited by the district for compliance
12 with all of the different aspects of the program.
13 And cities have made it very clear, that if
14 you don't do what you say you're going to do in this
15 permit application or this RFP, you won't get a
16 license to operate here in the next year.
17 And, Spin, we don't operate anywhere we don't
18 have a license to operate.
19 So, those are very important things for us.
20 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you.
21 Anybody else want to answer that question?
22 And going back to my initial question, as far
23 as biggest obstacles, anybody want to talk about the
24 biggest obstacles, other than this legislative
25 initiative?
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1 PHIL JONES: In most cases, it's really about
2 modeling behavior; for people to become familiar
3 with the platforms, to understand how to utilize
4 them properly.
5 And as we've mentioned earlier, it really is
6 about making sure that they're using them safely,
7 and that they're informed on the rules of the road,
8 and that they are following all traffic signals.
9 And there are a couple ways that we can do
10 that.
11 We can do that through our brand ambassadors,
12 who are actually going out there in the street,
13 talking to people, training them on how to use the
14 platforms properly.
15 But we can also use technology.
16 We can do an in-app pushing.
17 We can do it where we're telling them where
18 they can go and where they can't go.
19 Notifying them, and letting them know what
20 the rules of any given jurisdiction are.
21 And pushing that they actually are really
22 being cognizant of this new mode of transportation,
23 and how it then shares the street with regular
24 bicycles, which are pedal, with e-assist bicycles,
25 with scooters, and also pedestrians.
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1 The more that we are talking about that, the
2 more that we are informing people, the better off
3 they are, and the better off they do in using these
4 forms of new transportation to get from Point A to
5 Point B, and solve their real transportation issues.
6 ED FU: I'd like to echo what my colleagues
7 have stated before.
8 And I think that a lot of the -- a lot of
9 what comes about -- comes out of this is the
10 realization that Americans are desperate for new
11 ways of getting around.
12 And the reason why they have become -- these
13 new modes have become so popular is because it's
14 filling a latent demand that wasn't there before.
15 And when you do that, all of a sudden,
16 there's a lot of -- there's a lot of hiccups along
17 the way.
18 And I think one of the most exciting parts
19 about the public-private partnerships that we do, is
20 that we allow, and we tell cities to do that, you
21 should judge us on our records. That you shouldn't
22 just judge us on based on the promises that we're
23 able to make; but how we do in a city.
24 And the operators that perform the best
25 should be entitled to keep operating.
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1 And so I think that's one of the best ways of
2 solving the problem, by encouraging private
3 innovation and new technologies to develop, such as
4 the technologies that my partner -- that my
5 colleagues have mentioned; other technologies
6 involving, encouraging riders to park in certain
7 locations for discounts; and employing technology
8 that involves -- that allows these devices to be,
9 virtually, locked in a certain way in certain parts
10 of the street, to allow the local community members
11 to report, in real time, bad behavior that they see,
12 that allows us to -- that allows us to then respond
13 in real time to the riders as well.
14 So I think there's a lot of untapped
15 potential in this industry that's barely a year old.
16 And I think that this is the exactly right --
17 the right way to do it, is for cities to set the
18 goals they want to achieve, and have the operators
19 compete to see who can match them the best.
20 SENATOR KENNEDY: Anybody else want to add to
21 that?
22 WILL NICHOLS: I'd echo that.
23 And I think that, you know, some of the
24 concerns that I think arise around e-scooters are
25 largely founded in -- near the inception of
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1 e-scooters and their deployment.
2 And I think that there's been a handful, if
3 not dozens, of cities that have implemented really
4 excellent programs to educate the public, not only
5 on scooter use, but also who the scooters are
6 sharing the road with, whether it be pedestrians,
7 cyclists, motorists, et cetera.
8 And I think that, certainly, my colleagues
9 more so than myself, could point to some really
10 great structures that have, you know, provided not
11 only access to a lot of people that need
12 transportation, but have provided it in a way that
13 it's improved the larger ecosystem.
14 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you.
15 Let me just reiterate what I had said about
16 the manufacturing, as if I need to, and I know
17 I don't, but, I just want to be clear.
18 You know, the -- we are -- what we're
19 considering, is opening up the market here in the
20 state of New York for your respective corporations
21 to one of the most populated states in the union,
22 right, upwards of 20 million-plus people.
23 And so I think it's important that the
24 corporations look at New York as a place to make an
25 investment.
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1 And when you look at places like Buffalo and
2 Western New York and upstate, where we are desperate
3 for investment, and people are ready to go to work,
4 Will, you and have I worked with Tesla in
5 Western New York.
6 Tesla is a perfect example of a company that
7 has made an investment in upstate, and we're working
8 with them as a partner, to try to make sure that
9 people are working, the economy is strengthened in
10 our community.
11 I think the same could hold true, and
12 especially if you're doing the manufacturing, or
13 buying the products from China.
14 And I think each and every one of you
15 mentioned that your respective corporations are
16 doing so.
17 I think there's great opportunity here, now
18 more than ever, in the state of New York, especially
19 as the new technologies are going online.
20 We're talking about these new
21 battery-operated systems, whether it be scooters or
22 bikes, or large construction equipment, or other
23 vehicles, there is a place in New York, and
24 especially in Upstate New York, that is ready to do
25 business.
185
1 And I don't think anybody needs a reminder of
2 the importance of New York City on our economy.
3 So, again, thank you for your testimony.
4 Senator Ramos has a question.
5 SENATOR RAMOS: Well, several.
6 SENATOR KENNEDY: Several.
7 SENATOR RAMOS: So, as a cocky New Yorker,
8 I cannot tell you how embarrassing it is to hear
9 that you guys are in hundreds of cities across the
10 country, across the world, and we're not on that
11 list.
12 So, thank you for coming and testifying, and
13 helping me make the case that this bill makes sense,
14 and that it's something that is sorely needed here
15 in New York.
16 I would like to piggy-back on the
17 manufacturing point, and say that, you know, when we
18 make the case for these vehicles being legalized,
19 it's largely about also reducing our carbon
20 footprint.
21 And so, when we localize manufacturing, we
22 are reducing shipping, we're reducing trucking,
23 we're reducing...
24 So if that is indeed a goal for your company,
25 then, you know, to practice what you preach,
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1 I think, is very valuable.
2 And if you can throw in card-check neutrality
3 for your employees in there -- I wouldn't be the
4 Labor Chair if I didn't say that -- that would be --
5 that would be, I think, the right thing to do,
6 especially as you're, even without manufacturing,
7 bringing in thousands of jobs into our state.
8 The way we drafted the legislation was
9 largely legalizing the vehicles, but leaving it up
10 to municipalities and counties to decide how to
11 implement these programs.
12 In your experience and wide expertise, do you
13 feel that it's better to work with municipalities
14 when it comes to setting the parameters for your
15 programs?
16 WILL BURNS: I'll just reiterate what I said
17 earlier.
18 I definitely think that's the case, because
19 there's so much variation between cities and within
20 cities.
21 And so you might have one set of rules for a
22 central business district. You might have a
23 different set of rules for a residential
24 neighborhood.
25 And so there's lots of those kinds of nuances
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1 that folks on the ground know better than other
2 folks.
3 ED FU: In this regard, I think it's -- it's
4 instructive to just look at how bike-share operates
5 with respect to state laws.
6 State laws define and legalize bicycles, but
7 they don't micromanage cities and tell them, this is
8 where you have to put your city bike docks, or this
9 is who can ride on your city bikes.
10 That's left up to the city who's in the best
11 position to make that decision.
12 PHIL JONES: And as we've also mentioned,
13 infrastructure varies.
14 So you want to make sure that, when you're
15 going into any market; city, town, county, that they
16 have real true say about how those platforms are
17 used.
18 They should be used as a device for the
19 communities and the people who are there.
20 So they should be defining that usage.
21 SENATOR RAMOS: Keep that microphone, Phil.
22 PHIL JONES: No problem.
23 SENATOR RAMOS: But Lime's program in the
24 Rockaways has been wildly successful.
25 I mean, you, in your testimony --
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1 PHIL JONES: Yes.
2 SENATOR RAMOS: -- even described how popular
3 and how high the demand is for these e-scooters.
4 Have any issues around safety, and things
5 like that, come up at all?
6 WILL NICHOLS: I think it's actually shown
7 the city, through our data and the usage from the
8 community, about where they should be putting new
9 forms of transit, where they should be putting in
10 infrastructure for people, because we can tell them
11 in real time where they want to go.
12 That lets them know immediately, that they
13 can put in bike lanes here, that it makes sense for
14 them to move an express stop for a bus, that it
15 makes sense when they're putting in a new ferry
16 stop, because we can actually see in real time where
17 the constituents of those communities want to go.
18 And that is something that cities have always
19 struggled with, because they say, okay, if we're
20 dealing with a dock system, we kind of have to guess
21 where we think people are going to go.
22 With dock-free, you're able to move it, and
23 know exactly where it's going to be utilized, during
24 what type of day -- the time of day, pardon me, and
25 what day of the week.
189
1 So if you're looking at that in real time, a
2 city then can say, you know, what? We need to put
3 more infrastructure here. We need to put more
4 protective bike lanes. It makes sense for us to
5 have a ferry stop.
6 That builds instant connectivity for people.
7 That ends a lot of issues that we're seeing
8 currently for millions of New Yorkers who are faced
9 with no transportation options, and they're
10 traveling out of their way, hours, to do that, when
11 it could be just a 45-minute trip.
12 And we think that providing that data in real
13 time provides a service.
14 We've seen that in Far Rockaway.
15 And also, to get to your point, especially
16 yours about hiring, we pay a living wage for our
17 workers. They were making 17.50 prior to the State
18 instituting $15. And they have benefits.
19 So, for us, our workers' quality of life
20 matters because, guess what? They're from the
21 community. They're repping our organization.
22 And if they feel proud in themselves, they
23 will then have the community feel proud about the
24 use of a product.
25 And that answers a lot of the questions that
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1 you have in terms of safety and knowledge about
2 these new forms of transportation.
3 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you, Phil. That was
4 very thorough.
5 One of the -- one of the other concerns that
6 I often hear about scooters, is about scooters
7 littering the sidewalks.
8 And now, in the bill, we very much, in plain
9 English, lay out the need for ADA-compliance, which
10 is a huge concern, especially on some city streets
11 that are now much narrower than your average city
12 street.
13 And I know many of your companies do
14 end-of-day pickups.
15 Is it possible to increase the number of
16 pickups?
17 Can we add shifts, if and when and where
18 necessary?
19 Maybe, you know, morning pickup after the
20 morning rush hour, during lunch, and then at the end
21 of the day?
22 WILL BURNS: We certainly use rebalancing,
23 which is when, you know, people take a trip from one
24 place to another place.
25 We then go out and collect those scooters,
191
1 and try to figure out where people are going to need
2 them for the next part of the day.
3 As part of that rebalancing, we also correct
4 parking issues if we see them.
5 We pick the bike -- we pick the scooters up,
6 we rearrange them on the street face, on the
7 sidewalk face, so that those issues are addressed.
8 And, also, you can integrate the city's
9 client -- the 311 system with our customer-service
10 system.
11 So if people make complaints to a city
12 through 311 about a Spin scooter being parked
13 inappropriately, that can get to us in real time,
14 and then a ticket can be issued, and we go out and
15 fix it.
16 SENATOR RAMOS: Technology is an amazing
17 thing.
18 All right, and last, but not least, based on
19 your experience in other geographies, can you speak
20 to how the use of e-scooters has really seemed to
21 alleviate congestion -- car congestion, and people
22 seem to be making better choices in terms of getting
23 around?
24 ED FU: Absolutely.
25 One of the things that we -- one of the
192
1 things that, sometimes, people have been a little
2 skeptical about is, does this really replace car
3 trips?
4 And we're proud to say that it does, and, in
5 part, not just through our own data, but also
6 through city data, in looking at how -- how many
7 people have -- have stopped driving cars, but, and
8 have started using bike-share and started using mass
9 transit.
10 What a lot of surveys find, is that there
11 were people that could -- didn't have access to mass
12 transit, that lived, you know, half an hour away,
13 that couldn't -- that weren't going to walk that
14 distance, but were now able to, thanks to scooters.
15 And I think in one survey, in Portland, a
16 surprising number of people said that they got rid
17 of their cars entirely because we had come to the
18 city.
19 I think that's a -- that's a large step to
20 take, but I think that it goes to show exactly the
21 kind of impact that this revolutionary new
22 technology has.
23 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you.
24 SENATOR KENNEDY: Senator Liu?
25 SENATOR LIU: No, I'm good. Thank you.
193
1 SENATOR KENNEDY: Gentlemen, you got off easy
2 without any questions from Senator Liu.
3 [Laughter.]
4 SENATOR KENNEDY: But we really appreciate
5 you all being here, and your involvement, and your
6 communication with us.
7 And, of course, we're going to everything
8 that you brought to the table here today into
9 consideration.
10 We certainly look forward to working with you
11 on some of the feedback that we've given you as
12 well.
13 (Indiscernible cross-talking.)
14 OFF-CAMERA SPEAKER: Mr. Chairman, thank you
15 for your leadership.
16 (Indiscernible cross-talking.)
17 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you.
18 Thank you.
19 No, we're good.
20 Next, we are going to hear from
21 Bao Quing Lin.
22 Is Bao Quing Lin with us?
23 Wonderful.
24 You know what?
25 While Bao Quing Lin is getting ready, we are
194
1 going to take a two-minute break, so everybody can
2 get up, stretch, and relax a little bit.
3 We'll be right back.
4 (The hearing stands in recess.)
5 (The hearing resumes.)
6 SENATOR KENNEDY: Okay, thank you so much,
7 everybody.
8 We are going to get back into action.
9 We have, again, a very aggressive timetable
10 and schedule here, and much work to do.
11 So, Bao Quing Lin, delivery worker, thank you
12 so much for being here, thank you for your patience.
13 And, the floor is yours, sir.
14 BAO QUING LIN: (Speaking in foreign
15 language.)
16 (Translated to English by translator.)
17 Good afternoon.
18 Thank you for having me.
19 It's my pleasure to give this testimony.
20 Our delivery workers, we are underprivileged
21 group.
22 We appreciate the equality and to let us do
23 our job.
24 (Speaking in foreign language.)
25 (Translated to English by translator.)
195
1 We delivery workers, we work no matter what's
2 the weather -- how bad the weather condition is,
3 despite the snow, the rain, and the poor -- whatever
4 the poor weather condition, and we make delivery
5 every day.
6 But we don't understand why the NYPD still
7 give us a lot of trouble, a lot of tickets.
8 (Speaking in foreign language.)
9 (Translated to English by translator.)
10 So every time the police see me, they will
11 give us tickets.
12 The most time I got, is I got five tickets at
13 once, and the most one is $500.
14 (Speaking in foreign language.)
15 (Translated to English by translator.)
16 They also confiscates our e-bike.
17 I have to go to court. It's take two or
18 three days for me to get back my e-bike.
19 (Speaking in foreign language.)
20 (Translated to English by translator.)
21 We not only have to drive carefully and
22 follow the traffic law, we also need to constantly
23 watch out for police.
24 Every time we saw police, we are like the rat
25 who saw a cat, we have to run away.
196
1 (Speaking in foreign language.)
2 (Translated to English by translator.)
3 We face a lot of pressures. We are very
4 nervous on the road.
5 So for this condition, we call the state
6 government to legalize e-bike for us.
7 (Speaking in foreign language.)
8 (Translated to English by translator.)
9 Stop -- police stop -- stop, to giving out
10 tickets and confiscate our e-bikes.
11 We are really underprivileged community.
12 (Speaking in foreign language.)
13 (Translated to English by translator.)
14 We want -- we want a fair treatment for us.
15 We don't want more pressure.
16 We hope we can be treated equally.
17 (Speaking in foreign language.)
18 (Translated to English by translator.)
19 Please support legalize the e-bike.
20 Thank you.
21 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you.
22 SENATOR KENNEDY: Good luck, sir.
23 [Applause.]
24 SENATOR KENNEDY: Next we are going to hear
25 from Andrew Fox of Charge;
197
1 Followed by Changhe Zou, delivery worker.
2 Good afternoon, Andrew.
3 ANDREW FOX: Good afternoon.
4 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thanks for joining us
5 today, thanks for your patience.
6 ANDREW FOX: Thank you.
7 I'm the co-founder and CEO of Charge, a
8 micromobility company dedicated to building the
9 largest network of electric charging, storage, and
10 service stations for e-scooters and e-bikes in the
11 world.
12 I'm honored to be here today to testify on
13 behalf of Charge in support of legalization of
14 e-bikes and scooters.
15 And I would like to thank
16 Senator Timothy Kennedy, Chairman of the Committee
17 on Transportation; and Senator Jessica Ramos, member
18 of Transportation Committee and sponsor of the
19 legislation, for the opportunity to speak.
20 To start, I'd like to say, I'm a New Yorker
21 through and through. I was born here, I grew up
22 here, and I live here.
23 I love New York, and I want nothing but the
24 best for the city and to protect the integrity of
25 our city.
198
1 As we've all been witness to the
2 micromobility movement, it is quickly taking the
3 world by storm, and I think we can all agree it's an
4 important topic that needs to be at the forefront of
5 discussion here in New York.
6 About 60 percent of car trips worldwide are
7 less than 5 miles.
8 So small electric stand-on/sit-on vehicles
9 are often used for the first and last mile.
10 Cities around the world are welcoming
11 dockless e-scooters and e-bikes to help address the
12 issues putting pressure on public transportation,
13 such as the rise and congestion and pollution, by
14 reducing carbon footprints and improving mobility
15 flows in urban areas.
16 However, in tandem with this increased
17 presence of micromobility, we are also witness to
18 the shortcomings of dockless (indiscernible)
19 mobility and the ride-share platforms, such as
20 cluttered streets and potentially dangerous
21 sidewalks for pedestrians.
22 Simply put, dumping a bunch of scooters on
23 the street is the wrong approach.
24 On top of sidewalk issues, it's important to
25 note the potential hazards of current dockless
199
1 charging model.
2 Company contractors collect e-vehicles and,
3 typically, bring them to home to charge, connecting
4 up to 25 vehicles to one residential circuit,
5 creating a significant fire hazard.
6 Additionally, the lithium ion batteries that
7 are used are not fail-safe and have been known to
8 explode.
9 I've been an early supporter of micromobility
10 movement. I believe it holds promising potential,
11 but I believe it needs to be introduced responsibly.
12 It's clear that the shortcomings of the
13 dockless model are justifiable concerns for city
14 planners and pedestrians alike.
15 The greatest thing that this innovative and
16 advantageous approach to alternative transportation
17 seems to lack is the necessary infrastructure to
18 bring order to the chaos.
19 Since the introduction of e-scooters and
20 e-bikes, we have seen a rapid progression throughout
21 major cities around the globe.
22 As one of the leading trend-setting cities in
23 the United States, New York City should be the
24 leader in not only advancing this innovative
25 transportation solution, but also establishing the
200
1 necessary infrastructure to ride users and
2 ride-share operators, with a convenient place to
3 charge, store, unused e-vehicles, while protecting
4 the integrity of the city and sidewalks, while,
5 obviously, keeping pedestrians safe.
6 I believe Charge has a responsible solution
7 that city planners and ride-share operators alike
8 have been looking for to alleviate the concerns
9 while bringing micromobility to New York and beyond.
10 We've engaged leading global engineering firm
11 Arup to help us design and develop the charging
12 stations that are both functional and safe.
13 We also manufacture everything here in
14 New York.
15 So, we set out early in the early planning
16 stages of Charge to establish New York as a key
17 focus.
18 We announced our official launch during the
19 RPA Assembly held in April of this year.
20 We believing that New York has a potential to
21 really benefit from this industry, and we remain
22 dedicated to helping bring micromobility to the
23 New York, but in a responsible way.
24 We respectfully implore New York to recognize
25 the potential that micromobility has to offer, but
201
1 also adopt the necessary legislation to establish
2 the infrastructure to keep pedestrians safe.
3 Do not allow micromobility to come to
4 New York without the use of docks.
5 In summary, I believe New York can set the
6 standard for making micromobility work by
7 establishing the necessary infrastructure to bring
8 order to the chaos.
9 Thank you for the time.
10 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you very much.
11 And, congratulations; congratulations on your
12 product, and the investment that you've made.
13 It sounds like it is paying off in a big way.
14 ANDREW FOX: Thank you.
15 SENATOR KENNEDY: Tell me a little bit about
16 your product, and tell me about your manufacturing.
17 You know, when -- you must have been paying
18 close attention when I was asking those other
19 questions.
20 ANDREW FOX: Well -- so, as a New Yorker, one
21 of our first things was wanting to protect the
22 integrity of our city sidewalks while thinking about
23 how micromobility was going to be brought here.
24 So we manufacture at a facility on
25 Long Island City, about 25 minutes away from here.
202
1 SENATOR KENNEDY: Great.
2 ANDREW FOX: We decided to build everything,
3 engineer it and build it, here in New York, not only
4 to create the jobs, but, if you look at the
5 potential for micromobility in New York City, it
6 represents about 50 percent of the U.S. market.
7 So if we can do it responsibly here, I think
8 we become the model for the rest of the country, and
9 the rest of the world.
10 SENATOR KENNEDY: Sure, sure.
11 And just my own curiosity, how many people do
12 you employ at the manufacturing facility?
13 ANDREW FOX: We'll have approximately
14 120 people --
15 SENATOR KENNEDY: Impressive.
16 ANDREW FOX: -- (indiscernible
17 cross-talking). Yeah.
18 SENATOR KENNEDY: Very impressive.
19 And how many of these machines, for lack of a
20 better word, do you produce?
21 ANDREW FOX: So our goal in New York, we use
22 garages as a jumping-off point for New York.
23 So, depending on what the fleet size will be
24 in New York, we'll manufacture based on that.
25 But, we're manufacturing for the rest of the
203
1 United States here in New York.
2 With -- you know, we're launching in other
3 markets besides New York.
4 SENATOR KENNEDY: Great.
5 I will follow up with you post this hearing,
6 but I would like to talk to you about future
7 potential investments in areas upstate.
8 ANDREW FOX: Great. Thank you.
9 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you very much.
10 Senator Ramos?
11 SENATOR RAMOS: I'm good.
12 I think you're fantastic.
13 ANDREW FOX: Thank you.
14 Have a great day.
15 SENATOR KENNEDY: Senator Liu.
16 SENATOR LIU: If Senator Ramos says you're
17 fantastic, you must be.
18 [Laughter.]
19 SENATOR LIU: I have no questions.
20 ANDREW FOX: It's all about protecting the
21 integrity of our city while bringing this form of
22 transportation.
23 SENATOR KENNEDY: Well, as I mentioned,
24 you're impressive.
25 Senator Ramos let us know that, not only do
204
1 you do your manufacturing, as you've already
2 mentioned, here in New York, but you also take care
3 of your workers.
4 I think that's a sign of great integrity.
5 So thank you again.
6 ANDREW FOX: Thank you again.
7 Thank you for the time.
8 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you.
9 SENATOR KENNEDY: Have a great day.
10 ANDREW FOX: Have a great day.
11 SENATOR KENNEDY: Next we will hear from
12 Changhe Zou, delivery worker;
13 Followed by Nicholas Wong from Upcycles
14 Transit, Inc.
15 Good afternoon.
16 CHANGHE ZOU: (Speaking in foreign language.)
17 (Translated to English by translator.)
18 Good afternoon, Senators.
19 Currently, the government and police
20 increased their law-enforcement targeting on
21 e-bikes, increases the difficulties of our
22 surviving.
23 (Speaking in foreign language.)
24 (Translated to English by translator.)
25 Every day we have to face the pressure of the
205
1 life and the police crackdown.
2 We work hard legally to feed our families,
3 basically, without difficulties in life.
4 (Speaking in foreign language.)
5 (Translated to English by translator.)
6 But if government and law enforcement keep
7 oppressing us with tickets of $500, all the life
8 expense of a week would be gone.
9 (Speaking in foreign language.)
10 (Translated to English by translator.)
11 Without this, our family have to starve.
12 If the vehicle is being confiscated, we would
13 lose the tool of work, without being able to work,
14 since, without vehicle, we have to purchase a new
15 one which would cost at least 1,800 U.S. dollar.
16 (Speaking in foreign language.)
17 (Translated to English by translator.)
18 Facing this situation, many delivery workers
19 cannot support families. They have to face the
20 situation of a court lawsuit.
21 With pressure from the work, for this reason,
22 many colleagues, they have to choose the reality of
23 unemployment and stay at home.
24 (Speaking in foreign language.)
25 (Translated to English by translator.)
206
1 Meanwhile, to support the families, they have
2 to apply for government welfare to maintain daily
3 lives.
4 Many colleagues do not wish so, but facing
5 such pressure from the government and police force,
6 these colleagues have no better choice but to claim
7 the unemployment social security.
8 (Speaking in foreign language.)
9 (Translated to English by translator.)
10 Government and mayors would not wish that our
11 colleagues to all claim social benefit; therefore,
12 I hope government and police stop strict law
13 enforcement on our colleagues, and, as soon as
14 possible, find relevant policies, legalize e-bikes.
15 (Speaking in foreign language.)
16 (Translated to English by translator.)
17 We do not want discriminations.
18 Stop the oppression.
19 We demand equality and fairness and legal
20 rights.
21 We plea for government to provide a
22 reasonable space of survival to this vulnerable
23 communities.
24 Thank you.
25 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you, sir.
207
1 [Applause.]
2 SENATOR KENNEDY: Next we will hear from
3 Nicholas Wong from Upcycles Transit, Inc.;
4 Followed by Alex Rhodd from the Legal Aid
5 Society.
6 Good afternoon, Nicholas.
7 NICHOLAS WONG: Good afternoon.
8 Thanks for having me --
9 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you.
10 NICHOLAS WONG: -- and having me speak.
11 I'm a volunteer member of the Bike and Public
12 Project, where I'm an advocate and technical
13 subject-matter expert on e-bikes.
14 In my day job, I'm co-founder of a company
15 called Upcycles, and I'm a Brooklyn-based
16 manufacturer of pedal-assist cargo tricycles.
17 I've been working with e-bikes and e-bike
18 technologies for about the last seven years here in
19 New York City.
20 I'm here today to speak and to advocate for
21 the just treatment of the e-bike delivery workers,
22 and also to talk about the benefits of e-bikes at
23 large.
24 I'll be brief.
25 In my eyes, the delivery workers are the
208
1 voicesless champions of the e-bike. You know, they
2 are the pioneers; they were the early adopters of
3 this emerging mode of transportation.
4 And they've proven to the rest of us that the
5 e-bike is an effective mode of urban transportation.
6 It's efficient, it's accessible, and low-impact
7 means of moving through your crowded cities.
8 The tens of thousands of delivery workers
9 provide a thankless service to the city's businesses
10 and residents, with an economic value I estimate
11 over a billion dollars annually.
12 They have chosen e-bike out of necessity as a
13 means to ease their daily burden, a burden which has
14 been exacerbated by the regulations and -- by the
15 unclear regulations and the heavy-handed enforcement
16 policies.
17 And they should be the first to benefit from
18 legalization.
19 We at the Biking Public Project are
20 advocating for compassionate e-bike rules that
21 protect the livelihood of the delivery workers.
22 And the second point I want to make is about
23 just the e-bikes in general.
24 And, you know, I've been working on -- with
25 this technology for about seven years now, and
209
1 I believe strong in the transformative potential of
2 e-bikes.
3 My company, Upcycles, manufactures cargo --
4 pedal-assist cargo tricycles for commercial delivery
5 applications in New York City.
6 So think like a -- kind of a larger format
7 e-bike, with three wheels, that carry, you know, a
8 few hundred pounds, for moving large packages and
9 goods.
10 This bill would further encourage the
11 adoption of e-bikes as an effective and healthy
12 means of urban deliveries.
13 Current users of our vehicles include local
14 restaurants, urban agriculture, technology
15 companies, community-based food-hauling and
16 waste-hauling organizations.
17 And we're also starting to see the adoption
18 of these technologies by larger freight and
19 logistics companies.
20 So the e-bike is a nascent and growing mode
21 of urban transportation that holds much potential.
22 There will be many benefits to our city's
23 transportation, infrastructure, economy, and public
24 safety and health.
25 These benefits are recognized by many of us
210
1 in this room, and I'm excited by your attempts to
2 bring clarity to the issue.
3 Thank you.
4 SENATOR KENNEDY: Wonderful.
5 Thank you very much.
6 [Applause.]
7 SENATOR KENNEDY: Any questions?
8 SENATOR RAMOS: I'm good.
9 SENATOR KENNEDY: All set.
10 Thank you so much.
11 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you, Nicholas.
12 NICHOLAS WONG: Thank you.
13 SENATOR KENNEDY: Next we will hear from
14 Axel (sic) Rhodd from the Legal Aid Society.
15 I said "Axel."
16 I'm sorry.
17 [Laughter.]
18 SENATOR KENNEDY: It's been a long five
19 hours, folks.
20 Pardon me.
21 Alex.
22 SENATOR RAMOS: He was listening to
23 Guns N' Roses (indiscernible cross-talking).
24 SENATOR KENNEDY: Alex.
25 Alex Rhodd.
211
1 ALEX RHODD: Ah, yes, Rhodd (corrects
2 pronunciation).
3 SENATOR KENNEDY: Alex Rhodd?
4 ALEX RHODD: Yes.
5 SENATOR KENNEDY: All right, well, I just
6 absolutely butchered probably the easiest name I've
7 had all day.
8 [Laughter.]
9 SENATOR KENNEDY: My sympathies -- my
10 apologies.
11 Alex, thank you for being here.
12 ALEX RHODD: Thank you.
13 Good afternoon, Senators.
14 The Legal Aid Society is the oldest and
15 largest provider of legal assistance to low-income
16 individuals in the United States.
17 The society's civil, criminal, and juvenile
18 rights' practices handle more than 300,000 legal
19 matters each year on subjects ranging from,
20 homicide, to child welfare, to eviction, and
21 deportation.
22 Our criminal practices represented numerous
23 food-delivery workers whose electric bicycles were
24 confiscated by the police, subject to payment of a
25 $500 fine.
212
1 These seizures, based on a 2004
2 administrative-code provision, categorically banned
3 all electric-powered bikes.
4 We thank the Transportation Committee, as
5 well as Assembly Person Rozic, for the opportunity
6 to speak in favor of Senate Bill S.5294, an
7 amendment to New York State laws that will provide
8 an affordable pathway for low-income workers to
9 comply with the law and pursue their livelihood in
10 peace.
11 The ban itself was amended to permit the use
12 of costly pedal-activated e-bikes available to
13 commuters under the City Bike Program; yet, in 2008,
14 the amendment did not benefit the vast majority of
15 New York City food-delivery workers whose bikes are
16 of a cheaper throttle-operated variety.
17 These throttle-operated e-bikes are still
18 subject to confiscation at any time regardless of
19 how safely they are being operated.
20 For delivery workers, electric bicycles are
21 often the primary means of livelihood for them and
22 their dependents, and their removal has
23 life-altering implications.
24 While the enforcement of the e-bike ban has
25 always been sporadic, many delivery workers
213
1 throughout the city work in constant fear of an
2 encounter of the police.
3 We have since filed an Article 78 petition to
4 challenge the courts' arbitrary application of these
5 fines and confiscations that target the people with
6 little recourse.
7 Thank you very much.
8 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you, Alex.
9 [Applause.]
10 SENATOR KENNEDY: We appreciate your
11 testimony very much.
12 ALEX RHODD: Thank you.
13 SENATOR KENNEDY: Have a great day.
14 Next we're going to hear from Ben Turner,
15 librarian at St. John's University.
16 Is Ben with us?
17 Next we will hear from Matt Tolin,
18 vice president, sales and partnership, in OJO
19 Electric.
20 Following Matt's testimony, we'll hear from
21 Mel Gonzalez from Make the Road.
22 Good afternoon, Matt.
23 MATT TOLIN:
24 Good afternoon, Chair Kennedy,
25 State Senator Ramos, and State Senator Liu.
214
1 Thank you for holding this hearing, and
2 allowing me to testify on this very important piece
3 of legislation.
4 My name is Matt Tolin, and I am the
5 vice president for partnership and fleet sales for
6 OJO Electric.
7 OJO is a light electric-vehicle mobility
8 solutions company, creating products and services
9 for first- and last-mile transportation solutions.
10 Built for the bike lane and streets, off
11 sidewalks, and away from pedestrians, the OJO
12 scooter is a safe, sustainable, and
13 structurally-sound scooter for today's rapidly
14 expanding urban ride-share market.
15 OJO collaborates with local governments to
16 offer an electric scooter ride-share program to
17 reduce traffic congestion and carbon emissions.
18 Simply put, we're an electric scooter with a
19 seat.
20 My colleagues on the industry panel did a
21 great job of highlighting the benefits of electric
22 bikes and scooters for New York, and the importance
23 of this bill.
24 Scooters, like OJO, get cars off the street,
25 reduce congestion, and reduce carbon emissions.
215
1 They also drastically shorten commutes and connect
2 transit systems.
3 It is extremely unfair that delivery drivers
4 and other e-scooter and bike riders have been
5 targeted and had their access to new forms of
6 transportation restricted.
7 I do want to briefly highlight the difference
8 between OJO and kick scooters.
9 The OJO scooter is a different product than
10 kick scooters in the market, from a safety, quality,
11 and comfort standpoint.
12 Seats are perfect for delivery drivers.
13 And all OJOs come equipped with baskets.
14 So when we think of scooters, we need to
15 expand our brain and think of different modes of
16 transportation.
17 In fact, OJO currently has a pilot program in
18 Austin, Texas, with a leading delivery company, as
19 they look to maximize the efficiency of their
20 delivery staff.
21 With a 50-mile range, you can complete a
22 whole shift with one charge.
23 Further, while kick scooters are used for
24 shorter trips, OJO is providing a true alternative
25 to cars in the micromobility space by servicing
216
1 longer trips.
2 I also want to highlight that, with a seat,
3 we are more accessible for a larger rider base, both
4 commercially and leisurely.
5 We are currently in just three U.S. cities,
6 but growing every day.
7 We're in Austin and Dallas, Texas, and,
8 recently, earlier in May, launched in Hoboken, right
9 across the Hudson River, along with our friends at
10 Lime.
11 In each of these locations we have crafted a
12 unique program to meet local needs, and the
13 reception has been outstanding.
14 We strongly believe in transparency regarding
15 data of e-scooters.
16 OJO's on-board telemetry system, with
17 live-feed data transmission, allows us to share
18 data, allowing our public partners to understand
19 scooter usage and ride trends.
20 Thank you again for your advocacy and
21 efforts.
22 We strongly support S.5294, and believe local
23 stakeholders are best suited to develop and
24 implement appropriate parameters of a ride-share
25 program.
217
1 And we welcome the opportunity to implement
2 our vision in and around New York City and
3 New York State, with your help.
4 Thank you very much.
5 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Tolin.
6 Any questions?
7 SENATOR LIU: Thank you.
8 SENATOR KENNEDY: I do.
9 Can you talk about your manufacturing?
10 MATT TOLIN: Sure.
11 Like our colleagues, we are manufacturing
12 currently in China, and heard your message loud and
13 clear about the need for us, as a start-up company,
14 to invest in New York and in this partnership.
15 SENATOR KENNEDY: So I don't need to repeat?
16 MATT TOLIN: I'm a good listener.
17 SENATOR KENNEDY: I can tell.
18 Thank you.
19 Now, it's just the actual physical pieces
20 that are manufactured in China, or do you get your
21 battery there as with well?
22 MATT TOLIN: Our battery as well.
23 So we design in the U.S. The company is
24 based in California.
25 I live here in New York, I'm a New York State
218
1 resident.
2 But our -- we source in Canada -- in China,
3 excuse me, yes, sir.
4 SENATOR KENNEDY: So, again, following up on
5 this hearing, I would like to get in touch with you
6 and talk about the potential for making further
7 investment, from a manufacturing perspective, in
8 New York State.
9 MATT TOLIN: Absolutely, as well as from a
10 staffing perspective.
11 SENATOR KENNEDY: And then, similar to the
12 other -- to the questions that I asked the others,
13 biggest obstacles for you?
14 MATT TOLIN: I think if you look, for
15 example, there's a pilot program going on in
16 Hoboken, which is the first ride-share program of
17 its kind in the northeast.
18 And I think the initial -- I think it's all
19 about education and planning.
20 And I think the obstacles we've had have been
21 that folks aren't familiar with it in this area.
22 They see it when they travel.
23 So I think education, with the city support,
24 is very important, and, you know, we do that through
25 a variety of ways.
219
1 We have staff on-site all throughout Hoboken,
2 to help people understand the rules of the road.
3 I think the biggest challenge you find with
4 the kick scooters, as opposed to a seated scooter,
5 is they are on sidewalks.
6 People on seated scooters tend feel a little
7 safer, so they're in more control on the road and in
8 the bike lanes.
9 So I think education on not using the
10 sidewalk is paramount to any program, and any
11 success.
12 SENATOR KENNEDY: Is there any part of the
13 machine, again, for lack of a better word, that
14 governs when the speed -- when on a street versus a
15 sidewalk, is there anything that delineates the two?
16 MATT TOLIN: Well, we do have geofencing.
17 We have yet to find geofencing that can
18 delineate between the bike lane and the sidewalk.
19 SENATOR KENNEDY: Uh-huh?
20 MATT TOLIN: Our geofencing is within 3 feet,
21 so it's hard to do that.
22 But what we do have, is we are able to
23 geofence and have speed control.
24 So, for example, our maximum speed is
25 20 miles per hour. It can be throttled down
220
1 automatically, based upon geographic locations.
2 So, for example, if you're on a college
3 campus or near a certain area, and you only want the
4 speed to be 8, 10, 12, or 15 miles per hour, we can
5 geofence that and control the speed that way.
6 But not from a bike lane to a sidewalk.
7 From a detectable standpoint.
8 SENATOR KENNEDY: Are you familiar with that
9 technology? Does that technology exist?
10 MATT TOLIN: From sidewalk to bike lane?
11 I am not a technology expert.
12 I don't think to that degree it exists, but
13 perhaps someone else --
14 SENATOR KENNEDY: I've only heard something
15 of the sort.
16 MATT TOLIN: I haven't seen it yet.
17 SENATOR KENNEDY: Okay.
18 MATT TOLIN: And I've spent a lot of time in
19 the scooter space so far.
20 SENATOR KENNEDY: Well, that's why we're here
21 to learn more, and that's why I'm asking.
22 MATT TOLIN: Absolutely.
23 SENATOR KENNEDY: You know, you hear things
24 and you don't know if they're real or made up.
25 And then, finally, from a parking, you know,
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1 we have -- you had mentioned the kick-stand
2 e-scooters versus those that are different.
3 Can you talk about -- and then you heard from
4 another one, I suppose would be one of your
5 competitors, from Charge, talk about there being
6 stations implemented.
7 How does your -- how does OJO work?
8 MATT TOLIN: Sure.
9 Love to partner with Charge.
10 So, for example, in Hoboken, there's two
11 scooter companies operating.
12 Lime is operating under a dockless model, and
13 if you go to Hoboken you'll see it.
14 We partnered with a company called
15 Jersey Bike. So they own the bike -- bike-share
16 real estate. They own the docks, if you will.
17 There are 37 of them in Hoboken.
18 All OJOs, you can only park and end your
19 ride if it's within the confines of the 36 parking
20 stations.
21 So we can create corrals based upon longitude
22 and latitude coordinates.
23 So, you know, there's, obviously, already a
24 current bike provider in Manhattan, but there's a
25 lot of real estate all throughout the five boroughs
222
1 where we could put our heads together and designate
2 scooter parking over here.
3 And you could -- you can -- it doesn't have
4 to be a physical structure. You know, you can
5 demarcate it with lines and paintings and stencils,
6 but we're able to do it through coordinates.
7 So we believe, as a company, in that kind of
8 the corral-parking mentality.
9 Whether or not it's within a docking station,
10 you know, there's flexibility to that.
11 SENATOR KENNEDY: Well, I appreciate your
12 testimony here today.
13 And, again, my office will be in touch with
14 you.
15 MATT TOLIN: Great.
16 Thank you for the opportunity.
17 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you.
18 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Tolin.
19 Next we will hear from Miguel Ramirez.
20 Is Miguel with us?
21 Miguel?
22 And Eric Zoundi.
23 Eric?
24 And Eric is from New York Pedicab Alliance?
25 ERIC ZOUNDI: That's correct.
223
1 SENATOR KENNEDY: Excellent.
2 Good afternoon.
3 ERIC ZOUNDI: Good afternoon, Senators.
4 Thank you again for this opportunity to
5 testify.
6 Again, my name is Eric Zoundi, and I'm a
7 pedicab driver and an advocate for pedicabs in
8 New York City.
9 I'm also leading an effort to organize and
10 formalize a pedicab organization called New York
11 Pedicab Alliance, with the Urban Justice Center.
12 I'm here to support this bill to legalize
13 e-bikes and e-scooters.
14 And I would like also to invite this
15 committee to consider including pedicabs --
16 e-pedicabs in this legislation.
17 "Pedicabs" are defined as bicycles according
18 to New York Administrative Law 2240.
19 They are entirely a human-powered vehicle
20 used for hire, as stated in the Administrative
21 definition.
22 In simple terms, a pedicab is 21-speed
23 mountain bike attached to a fiberglass tube with a
24 padded seat on it.
25 They weigh about 175 pounds, empty.
224
1 They're allowed to carry up to three
2 passengers at once, yet not allowed to use
3 electric-assist.
4 Having been banned from using the bike lanes
5 in 2009, pedicab drivers struggle every day to keep
6 up with traffic on the busy street of Manhattan
7 without electric-assist, while carrying, at times,
8 heavy passengers and traveling on hilly streets.
9 Drivers who go against the law and use
10 e-pedicabs get similar summons like the e-bikes.
11 Could be $500, 1,000, or even $2,000.
12 In 2016, when I was about to finish my
13 master's program from (indiscernible) College,
14 I teamed up with a team of entrepreneurs from
15 social-innovation companies to reflect on ways to
16 bring more value in the pedicab industry.
17 We did a lot of market research, and were
18 amazed by the potential of pedicabs to bring about
19 social and environmental change in the city.
20 However, this -- the technology and
21 rebranding involved in our vision made it difficult
22 to move forward with everything, with our vision.
23 And so we could not move forward without
24 change of policy that allows pedicabs to be
25 electric-assist.
225
1 If you've been in New York City, especially
2 in Midtown Manhattan during springtime, summer, or
3 the fall, it's difficult to not run into a pedicab,
4 and yet pedicabs have been discriminated against by
5 the city administration when it came to legalizing
6 electric bikes.
7 In the spring of 2018, the mayor,
8 Mayor de Blasio, made an announcement, stating that
9 they were not included in the proposal to clarify
10 e-assist for bicycles in New York City.
11 For the record, pedicabs have been in
12 existence in the city of New York for over 24 years,
13 helping a lot of operators feed their families,
14 including a lot of young people from different
15 backgrounds, and older ones as well.
16 Over 70 percent of the industry consists of
17 recent immigrants, like me, without many employment
18 options.
19 I've personally driven a pedicab since 2012.
20 I graduated from Baroche MP program in 2016,
21 and paid off my school fees, thanks to the
22 opportunity of driving a pedicab in Central Park.
23 Authorizing pedicabs to have the e-assist
24 will make it possible for more employment-seekers in
25 the city to be able to carry passengers across town,
226
1 make a living, and pursue their dreams.
2 Without the e-pedicabs, a common individual
3 who is not very fit will have difficulties taking a
4 pedicab on the street -- on the busy streets of
5 New York.
6 Yes, this also increases safety on the
7 streets, since pedicab drivers will not impede
8 normal flow of traffic when they are going on hills.
9 They are a lot -- there are a lot of young
10 girls and guys who are interested in becoming
11 pedicab drivers, but because of the fear that they
12 would get tired at some point in traffic and get
13 stalled, they are not even giving it a thought,
14 giving it a try.
15 There is a multitude of reasons why people
16 could hire pedicabs.
17 More recently, most pedicab drivers focus
18 on -- focus around tourist attractions.
19 Some people simply want to chat with someone,
20 and so hire pedicabs to show them the city.
21 For others, it is for the fun of riding open
22 air.
23 And others, it's for the knowledgeable tour
24 guide who is pedaling the pedicabs.
25 Ultimately, riders hire pedicabs to simply go
227
1 from one place to another.
2 Pedicabs could become a first- or last-mile
3 solution for everyday commuter to Manhattan if they
4 can legally be electric-assist.
5 While other cities around the world have
6 welcomed electric-assist pedicabs as an ecofriendly
7 alternative, New York has yet to allow them to get
8 better in helping them reduce pollution and
9 congestion issues.
10 This Transportation Committee of
11 New York State Senate should include e-pedicabs in
12 your legislative agenda, and so support
13 Councilman Espinal interests in making e-assist
14 pedicabs a reality in New York City.
15 Thank you so much.
16 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you very much,
17 Mr. Zoundi.
18 Any questions?
19 SENATOR RAMOS: Just a comment.
20 SENATOR KENNEDY: Yep.
21 SENATOR RAMOS: I'd be -- I'm very interested
22 in sitting down with you and learning more about
23 e-pedicabs, and how I can be helpful to
24 Councilman Espinal, or if there's a state measure,
25 happy to be helpful.
228
1 I just need to learn more.
2 ERIC ZOUNDI: That would be great.
3 Absolutely, I'm available to sit with you.
4 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you once again for
5 your testimony.
6 ERIC ZOUNDI: It was a pleasure.
7 Thank you.
8 SENATOR KENNEDY: Our pleasure.
9 That brings us to a conclusion on those that
10 had signed up to speak.
11 Is there anyone else that would like to speak
12 before we come to a close of this public hearing?
13 Going once?
14 Going twice?
15 Well, thank you everyone for being here
16 today, thank you for your participation.
17 To those that testified, I am extremely
18 grateful.
19 We will be taking all of this testimony into
20 consideration as we are formulating the legislative
21 initiative, and, ultimately, working over the next
22 two to three weeks, to hopefully advance some
23 legislation.
24 I will now turn it over to the bill's
25 sponsor, Senator Ramos.
229
1 SENATOR RAMOS: Yeah, no, thank you, Tim.
2 I have to say, as Chair of the Transportation
3 Committee, State Senator Tim Kennedy has done a
4 tremendous job in helping us usher a very different
5 perspective to what the future of New York State
6 holds.
7 And it started with congestion pricing during
8 the budgeting season, and now we're talking about
9 things that we've never really considered before,
10 but are the right thing to do by New Yorkers.
11 So I want to publicly thank you, Tim, for
12 your leadership and your openness --
13 [Applause.]
14 SENATOR RAMOS: -- and his dedication, and
15 his funny jokes.
16 Sure, he is actually pretty funny.
17 And I want to thank everybody who took the
18 time to come.
19 I know many delivery workers even took the
20 day off when they can't necessarily do that.
21 We all now know about their hardships.
22 So a very special thank-you to all the
23 delivery workers who were able to come today to
24 testify.
25 [Applause.]
230
1 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you.
2 Gracias.
3 Xiè xiè.
4 And thank you to all the advocates, and those
5 who have lent their research skills and their
6 expertise, to ensuring that we're getting to the
7 meat of the issue.
8 I'm very much looking forward to adding these
9 two colleagues as co-sponsors on my legislation,
10 and, hopefully, get to that magic number that will
11 bring it to the floor for a vote before the end of
12 session.
13 Thank you, everybody.
14 [Applause.]
15 SENATOR KENNEDY: Senator Liu.
16 SENATOR LIU: Thank you, Senator Ramos, for
17 bringing this legislation before us.
18 And thank you to Senator Tim Kennedy for
19 trekking all the way here from Buffalo and for
20 chairing this wonderful hearing.
21 Thank you.
22 [Applause.]
23 SENATOR KENNEDY: So, once again, I just want
24 to reiterate my gratitude for those that testified;
25 To Senator Ramos for carrying this bill;
231
1 Senator Liu, for your attentiveness and
2 engagement in this entire process.
3 These two are just tremendous senators that
4 represent their districts, and the entire state,
5 extremely well.
6 I want to recognize again, our leader,
7 Senator Andrea Stewart-Cousins, for advancing this
8 initiative as well.
9 And, a special shout-out, once again, to the
10 staff for working so diligently to make everything
11 go smoothly; from the technological aspects, this
12 was live-streamed entirely; to making sure that all
13 of those that testified today had everything they
14 that needed, and we were able to move through so
15 many different individuals.
16 So thank you, all.
17 Have a wonderful day, and a wonderful
18 weekend, and we will see you very soon in the state
19 Capitol.
20 Have a great day.
21 This brings this public hearing to a close.
22 (Whereupon, the public hearing held before
23 the New York State Senate Standing Committee on
24 Transportation concluded, and adjourned.)
25 ---oOo---