1
1 BEFORE THE NEW YORK STATE SENATE FINANCE
AND ASSEMBLY WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE
2 --------------------------------------------------
3 JOINT LEGISLATIVE HEARING
4 In the Matter of the
2020-2021 EXECUTIVE BUDGET ON
5 HUMAN SERVICES
6 ----------------------------------------------------
7 Hearing Room B
Legislative Office Building
8 Albany, New York
9 January 30, 2020
9:34 a.m.
10
11 PRESIDING:
12 Senator Liz Krueger
Chair, Senate Finance Committee
13
Assemblywoman Helene E. Weinstein
14 Chair, Assembly Ways & Means Committee
15 PRESENT:
16 Senator Patrick M. Gallivan
Senate Finance Committee (Acting RM)
17
Assemblyman Edward P. Ra
18 Assembly Ways & Means Committee (RM)
19 Assemblywoman Ellen Jaffee
Chair, Assembly Children and Families
20 Committee
21 Senator Velmanette Montgomery
Chair, Senate Committee on Children
22 and Families
23 Assemblyman Andrew Hevesi
Chair, Assembly Committee on Social Services
24
2
1 2020-2021 Executive Budget
Human Services
2 1-30-20
3 PRESENT: (Continued)
4 Senator Roxanne Persaud
Chair, Senate Committee on Social Services
5
Assemblyman Harry B. Bronson
6 Chair, Assembly Committee on Aging
7 Senator Rachel May
Chair, Senate Committee on Aging
8
Assemblywoman Didi Barrett
9 Chair, Assembly Committee on Veterans' Affairs
10 Senator John E. Brooks
Chair, Senate Committee on Veterans,
11 Homeland Security and Military Affairs
12 Assemblyman Jake Ashby
13 Senator Diane J. Savino
14 Assemblyman Clyde Vanel
15 Senator Sue Serino
16 Assemblyman Mark Walczyk
17 Senator Brian Kavanagh
18 Assemblywoman Patricia Fahy
19 Senator James Tedisco
20 Assemblywoman Tremaine Wright
21 Senator Gustavo Rivera
22 Assemblywoman Inez E. Dickens
23 Assemblyman Al Taylor
24
3
1 2020-2021 Executive Budget
Human Services
2 1-30-20
3 LIST OF SPEAKERS
4 STATEMENT QUESTIONS
5 Sheila J. Poole
Commissioner
6 NYS Office of Children
and Family Services 9 15
7
Michael P. Hein
8 Commissioner
NYS Office of Temporary
9 and Disability Assistance 101 107
10 Greg Olsen
Acting Director
11 NYS Office for the Aging 178 185
12 Jim McDonough
Director
13 NYS Division of Veterans'
Services 239 244
14
Gail Myers
15 Deputy Director
New York StateWide Senior
16 Action Council 292 299
17 Ariel Savransky
Advocacy and Policy Advisor
18 UJA-Federation of New York 306
19 Rebecca Preve
Executive Director
20 Association on Aging
in New York 312 318
21
Dede Hill
22 Director of Policy
Crystal Charles
23 Policy Analyst
Schuyler Center for
24 Analysis & Advocacy 326 331
4
1 2020-2021 Executive Budget
Human Services
2 1-30-20
3 LIST OF SPEAKERS, Continued
4 STATEMENT QUESTIONS
5 Kathleen Brady-Stepien
Assoc. Executive Director
6 Council of Family and
Child Caring Agencies 334 340
7
Meredith Chimento
8 Executive Director
Early Care & Learning Council 349 354
9
Trudy Morgan
10 Policy Coordinator
NYS Network for Youth Success 356 361
11
Melissa Sklarz
12 Senior Government Relations
Strategist
13 SAGE 363
14 Melinda Mack
Executive Director
15 NY Association of Training and
Employment Professionals 369 375
16
Lt. Col. (Retired) Roy Diehl
17 Deputy Director
New York State Defenders Assn.
18 Veterans Defense Program 379 382
19 Kirby Hannan
VFW Legislative Advocate
20 -for-
NYS Veterans Council 385
21
Timothy Hathaway
22 Executive Director
Prevent Child Abuse New York 390
23
24
5
1 2020-2021 Executive Budget
Human Services
2 1-30-20
3 LIST OF SPEAKERS, Continued
4 STATEMENT QUESTIONS
5 Shelly Nortz
Deputy Executive Director
6 of Policy
Coalition for the Homeless 394
7
Saima Akhtar
8 Senior Attorney
Empire Justice Center 400
9
Kristen Kerr
10 Executive Director
New York Association for the
11 Education of Young Children 406
12 Elizabeth Deutsch
Director
13 New York State and New England
Community Mobilization for
14 Housing Works 411
15 Daryl Hornick-Becker
Policy and Advocacy Associate
16 Citizens' Committee for
Children of New York 417
17
Cynthia Dames
18 Project Manager
The NEW Pride Agenda 423
19
Gregory Brender
20 Director of Children
and Youth Services
21 United Neighborhood Houses
-for-
22 Winning Beginning NY 428
23 Alana Pilar Cantillo
Senior Director of Advocacy
24 New York Immigration Coalition 432
6
1 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: So I'm
2 Assemblywoman Helene Weinstein, chair of the
3 Assembly Ways and Means Committee, and today
4 we have the fourth hearing in a series of
5 hearings conducted by the joint fiscal
6 committees of the Legislature regarding the
7 Governor's proposed budget for fiscal year
8 2020-2021.
9 The hearings are conducted pursuant to
10 the New York State Constitution and the
11 Legislative Law.
12 And so today the Assembly Ways and
13 Means Committee and the Senate Finance
14 Committee will hear testimony concerning the
15 Governor's budget proposal for human
16 services.
17 So just couple of ground rules. For
18 the -- well, let me introduce the members
19 first that are here in my conference, and
20 then Senator Krueger will introduce --
21 Senator Krueger, chair of the Senate Finance
22 Committee, will introduce the members from
23 her conference from the Senate.
24 So we have with us the chair of our
7
1 Children and Families Committee, Ellen
2 Jaffee; the chair of our Aging Committee,
3 Harry Bronson; a member of the Children and
4 Families Committee, Assemblyman Al Taylor.
5 Liz, would you like to introduce
6 your --
7 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Sure. Actually
8 I'm joined by the sitting-in ranker for
9 Finance for the Senate Republicans, the
10 acting, Senator Gallivan. Senator Seward
11 couldn't be with us today.
12 Then I am joined by the chair of
13 Social Services, Velmanette Montgomery; the
14 chair of -- I did it backwards? I did it
15 backwards, excuse me. The chair of Children
16 and Families, Senator Velmanette Montgomery.
17 The chair of Social Services, Senator Roxanne
18 Persaud. The chair of Aging, Senator Rachel
19 May from Syracuse. Senator John Brooks,
20 chair of Veterans. Senator Diane Savino.
21 And I am Senator Liz Krueger. Thank you.
22 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: We also are
23 joined by Assemblyman Hevesi, chair of our
24 Social Services Committee.
8
1 And Assemblyman Ra, our ranking
2 member, will introduce the members of his
3 conference who are here with us.
4 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Thank you.
5 Joining us this morning is Assemblyman
6 Jake Ashby and Assemblyman Mark Walczyk.
7 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
8 So now a few ground rules for
9 everybody. Keep an eye on the time clocks.
10 It's been helping us get through our hearings
11 with having time for the witnesses to present
12 testimony, for the legislators to be able to
13 ask questions. The clock time is both for --
14 other than for the people testifying, but for
15 the members. Just be mindful, the clock is
16 both for your questions and answers.
17 And we try and keep a pretty tight
18 ship because there are many nongovernmental
19 witnesses who are joining us today, as they
20 have other days, and we want to make sure
21 that the last person on the list gets an
22 opportunity to speak to the members.
23 So -- and just for the members, the
24 chair of the relevant committee has
9
1 10 minutes to ask her questions and get
2 answers; the other members, five minutes.
3 The chairs are the only ones -- the relevant
4 chair can have a second round of five
5 minutes. And when we go to nongovernmental
6 witnesses, the nongovernmental witnesses will
7 have up to five minutes to present their
8 testimony, and members will have three
9 minutes to ask a question.
10 We also, before we get started, we're
11 joined by Assemblyman Vanel.
12 And with that, I think we are ready,
13 Commissioner, to begin. So we begin with
14 Sheila Poole, commissioner, New York State
15 Office of Children and Family Services.
16 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Thank you.
17 Good morning, Chairs Krueger and Weinstein,
18 Children and Families Committee Chairs
19 Montgomery and Jaffee, and distinguished
20 members of the Senate and Assembly. My name
21 is Sheila Poole, and I am the commissioner of
22 the New York State Office of Children and
23 Family Services, and I am pleased to have
24 this opportunity to discuss this year's
10
1 proposed budget for OCFS.
2 This year's Executive Budget maintains
3 OCFS funding just above last year's levels to
4 support our core child welfare, childcare,
5 and juvenile justice programs, while
6 investing in new initiatives to better serve
7 New York's children and families.
8 As you know, on October 1st of 2019
9 New York reached an historic milestone when
10 Raise the Age took full effect. In keeping
11 with Governor Cuomo's pledge to fully fund
12 Raise the Age for eligible counties, the
13 Executive Budget adds $50 million to support
14 Raise the Age implementation, for a total of
15 $250 million in the coming fiscal year.
16 The Executive Budget expands the
17 Empire State Child Tax Credit to provide $157
18 million in relief to 400,000 families who
19 have children under the age of 4 and who earn
20 up to $50,000 a year.
21 Having adequate access to childcare
22 remains a national policy and fiscal issue as
23 well as one here in New York State. The
24 Governor's Childcare Availability Task Force
11
1 is continuing its important work and will
2 issue its final report in December.
3 In the meantime, the proposed
4 Executive Budget maintains its commitment of
5 nearly $832 million for childcare
6 subsidies -- the highest level of investment
7 in state history, serving more than 100,000
8 low-income families and 170,000 children.
9 We're also pleased to share that
10 New York State has awarded an additional $20
11 million in federal funding to expand
12 subsidized childcare statewide by an
13 additional 2500 childcare slots.
14 In addition, OCFS anticipates
15 additional funding this year through the
16 federal Childcare Development Fund. And the
17 New York State Council of Children and
18 Families, which OCFS hosts, has also been
19 awarded federal funds in the amount of
20 $40 million through the Preschool Development
21 Birth through Five Grant, which will
22 strengthen our early childhood care and
23 education system.
24 Governor Cuomo mandated the Regional
12
1 Economic Development Councils to consider
2 childcare in their proposals, and they
3 answered. During Round 9, nearly
4 $8.8 million was awarded to 16 childcare
5 projects, and an additional $7.3 million was
6 awarded to four projects that have a
7 childcare component. Every region has
8 responded with proposals specific to their
9 area, and we're looking forwarded to seeing
10 these public/private ideas come to fruition.
11 But still, we recognize there is more
12 to be done to make quality, affordable
13 childcare accessible to all families who need
14 it, and we will continue our work toward that
15 end.
16 The Governor's proposal again expands
17 access to quality after-school programming by
18 adding $10 million for a fourth round of
19 Empire State After-School Program grants.
20 This will create 6250 new after-school slots
21 for students in high-need districts, and will
22 bring our total expenditures for after-school
23 programs to $134 million and serving
24 80,000 students.
13
1 When combined with funding for
2 prekindergarten programs and child-focused
3 tax credits, the state's overall support for
4 families with young children has increased by
5 more than $500 million since 2011.
6 As cochair of the Governor's Domestic
7 Violence Task Force, I'm pleased to report
8 that the Executive Budget includes ambitious
9 proposals to address the growing problem of
10 domestic violence. As urged by the task
11 force, the budget adds $5 million in new
12 funding for a pilot program to expand
13 innovative models and provide a greater
14 flexibility in meeting the needs of families
15 affected by domestic violence.
16 The number of children entering foster
17 care continues its downward trajectory.
18 However, we know that far too many children
19 from minority families end up involved with
20 the child welfare system as a result of
21 implicit bias, despite the best intentions of
22 our dedicated child welfare workforce.
23 This year we will take the bold step
24 of requiring every county in the state to
14
1 follow a blind removal process when
2 considering to remove a child from their
3 home. It is time to adopt blind removals and
4 take a significant step forward in ensuring
5 social justice for all children and families.
6 And last year, with your support,
7 New York began implementing the federal
8 Family First Prevention Services Act, with a
9 Family First Transition Fund to help local
10 social service districts support, recruit and
11 retain foster families, including kinship
12 caregivers. The Executive Budget continues
13 $3 million in funding for the state-supported
14 transition fund.
15 It also provides authorization to
16 spend up to $75 million in new one-time
17 federal funds that we've recently received
18 through our aggressive lobbying efforts in
19 Washington. This new funding includes up to
20 $50 million for the Administration for
21 Children's Services in New York City.
22 And before I close, I'd be remiss if I
23 didn't acknowledge you, Senator Montgomery.
24 This is your last Human Services Budget
15
1 Hearing, I understand. When I was here
2 earlier in the week doing some meetings, I
3 ran into a group of young people, a large
4 group of young people proudly wearing their
5 YouthBuild t-shirts, and they reminded me,
6 obviously, of you.
7 So it's been a pleasure. You have
8 been a fierce and tireless advocate for
9 children and families. I will miss you. And
10 I look forward to our final session together.
11 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
12 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: I thank you
13 again for the opportunity to address all of
14 you, and I look forward to your questions.
15 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
16 So today's hearing the Assembly is
17 coordinating, so I'll go first to the chair
18 of our Children and Families Committee, Ellen
19 Jaffee, for some questions.
20 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: Thank you very
21 much.
22 Thank you very much, Commissioner, for
23 your advocacy, the work that you've been
24 doing, and the opportunity to speak today, as
16
1 well as on a personal level we've had the
2 chance to review some of the issues of
3 concern.
4 But I do want to review some of the
5 concerns, and I wanted to ask you -- as
6 noted, the budget does include 75 million,
7 which you know, will help counties with their
8 ability -- their compliance with the federal
9 Family First Prevention Act, $50 million for
10 the statewide compliance, 25 for the
11 counties, giving them the opportunity, if
12 they have the expired Title IV-E
13 demonstration projects -- this way, they can
14 have that support.
15 How will the funding work in terms of
16 meeting the requirements of the Family First
17 Prevention Act? Can you provide, you know,
18 more details about the Title IV-E
19 demonstration projects and how they work and
20 how this will come into support?
21 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Sure. So
22 just going back to your question about the
23 Title IV-E demonstration projects, they date
24 back I think five or six years ago. And New
17
1 York City was the only county in New York
2 State to take advantage of a Title IV-E
3 waiver that the feds allowed municipalities
4 to use Title IV-E funding in sort of new
5 ways, in unrestricted ways, to test out
6 evidence-based models of care.
7 And so New York City took advantage of
8 that. They've had some success in adopting
9 several models of evidence-based care that
10 have had some really good outcomes. They've
11 reduced caseloads for foster-care workers.
12 But unfortunately, those federal
13 waivers expired, and so there was no
14 replacement funding strategy for that. And
15 so for many states who had really deeply
16 invested in these IV-E waivers, sort of the
17 bottom was going to drop out of these new
18 programs and services that were really
19 showing some promise.
20 And so many states, including
21 New York -- and with our partners in New York
22 City -- we have made a lot of noise in
23 Washington about the need, if we're going to
24 be successful in implementing the new Family
18
1 First federal act, that we need to find ways
2 to not only continue those waiver services
3 that were allowable under the previous
4 waiver, but also give states additional new
5 dollars to help us do the many things that
6 are now required for us to comply with the
7 federal statute that will take effect here in
8 New York in 2021.
9 So the money that is appropriated in
10 the budget, so the 75 million, Assemblywoman,
11 approximately 21.4 of that will be for the
12 general use for us as a state to consider how
13 we can use those funds to sort of carry on
14 the work that we began last year with the $3
15 million transition fund -- so ways of
16 recruiting and supporting kinship relatives,
17 you know, doing kinship support groups, sort
18 of whatever it takes for us.
19 You know, there's a lot of provisions
20 in Family First about independent assessors
21 and agencies having to meet QRTP standards.
22 There are a lot of things that we still have
23 to find a way to fund and to do.
24 So that's our thinking. We haven't
19
1 developed, you know, our plan for request for
2 proposals yet, but it's a one-shot. So it's
3 -- $20 million, as you know, is not a huge
4 amount of money for a state as large as ours,
5 and we want to be very thoughtful and
6 strategic about how we use that investment.
7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: Well, within
8 the Families First Prevention Act, how do you
9 define what the -- how they have qualified
10 for the residential -- what -- what is --
11 what creates a qualified group for
12 residential treatment? What is the
13 qualifying need?
14 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Yeah. Yeah.
15 So this new federal act, which New York State
16 took advantage of a two-year waiver --
17 because there were many questions, and that
18 was among them. So what does it really mean
19 for residential programs to be considered a
20 QRTP, a Qualified Residential Treatment
21 Program?
22 So those programs, under the new
23 federal definition, will need to adopt or be
24 able to implement trauma responsive models of
20
1 care. They must have nursing services. They
2 must provide up to six months of after-care
3 for children in their care. They must do
4 significant outreach to families of children
5 who have wound up in residential care.
6 And so looking across our current
7 service system in New York, we believe that
8 many of our current residential providers
9 would meet that QRTP designation.
10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: Can you share
11 the impact of the market rate that went into
12 effect last year? What is the statewide
13 cost, you know, for that increase? Is there
14 consideration being given to returning the
15 market rate to the 75th percentile, which was
16 recommended by the federal government?
17 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: So
18 New York -- so we're on to childcare now,
19 just, right, switching gears a bit. So
20 New York State maintains, as a result of the
21 last year's market rate, a 69th percentile
22 rate, which is among the highest in this
23 nation. We watch where we stand in
24 comparison to other states. So we remain
21
1 among the top states in preparing for the
2 market rate at 69th percentile.
3 This year, this fall, we will again --
4 it will be our cycle to do a new market rate
5 analysis, so that will give us another
6 opportunity to do a sampling of a variety, a
7 stratification of providers across the state.
8 And so that survey allows us to really ask
9 providers what is the actual cost of care
10 that is providing for you. We collect that
11 information, and then we begin to determine
12 how we can continue to support the cost to
13 childcare providers.
14 So again, that would mean that our new
15 market rates, Assemblywoman, would take
16 effect in the fall of 2021.
17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: There is -- I
18 have concern -- the Executive proposed
19 eliminating the 18.42 percent state share for
20 outside-New York City residential placements
21 for children with disabilities by, you know,
22 the Committee on Special Education. Which
23 the cost will be -- will be by the school
24 districts, then, which is a concern in terms
22
1 of how the school districts are going to be
2 able to maintain that stability, having to
3 then add -- this is added to their cost and
4 impacts their budget.
5 Can you explain the purpose of
6 eliminating the funding and how it will
7 then -- how we can -- the school districts,
8 how they'll be able to maintain their
9 stability?
10 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Sure. So
11 the proposal in this year's budget is to
12 really create parity with what was already
13 done for New York City several years ago.
14 So, you know, these children, frankly, the
15 payment for the CSE really does not belong in
16 the Office of Children and Family Services
17 budget. These are not children in foster
18 care. These are not children in prevention
19 services. These are children who are a
20 school district's responsibility to provide
21 services for.
22 So it is -- it's shifting
23 responsibility in the budget where we believe
24 responsibility lies for these Committee on
23
1 Preschool Education and Special Education
2 Services for Children.
3 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: We should then
4 also increase funding for our school
5 districts. I'm very concerned that this will
6 really negatively impact in terms of their
7 ability to provide the programs and the
8 education that is necessary. So this is an
9 issue we need to follow up on.
10 The budget, the '19-'20 budget
11 implemented the Family First Transition Fund
12 that included $3 million. Are there any
13 updates that you could provide regarding this
14 fund? Is the $3 million in the Executive
15 proposal added on top of last year's funding?
16 How did this work?
17 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Yeah. Good.
18 So lots of questions there.
19 So last year when we passed the
20 budget, that included the $3 million fund.
21 In May we distributed all of the funding out
22 to every local social service district in the
23 state, including New York City. And we asked
24 them to submit a plan to us about how they
24
1 planned to use that money. Again, to better
2 support the recruitment and retention of
3 foster parents, but with a real specific
4 focus on doing a better job in supporting our
5 kinship families.
6 So those counties all submitted plans
7 to us outlining their strategies. All of
8 those plans are up on our OCFS Family First
9 website, so I'd encourage all of you to take
10 a look at those plans.
11 And so we've been following those
12 activities on the local level, and they've
13 done some great things, ranging from new
14 marketing campaigns to starting focus groups
15 for kinship and foster families. Some have
16 used the money in creative ways to help
17 kinship families and foster families who
18 might not otherwise -- maybe their house
19 needed smoke detectors or something to meet
20 the certification standards. So there's been
21 a lot of good work and activity across the
22 state.
23 So we are adding an additional
24 $3 million to this year's budget to be able
25
1 to continue those efforts across the state,
2 and that will be in addition to the
3 $21.4 million that we expect to receive from
4 the federal government.
5 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you. We
6 go to the Senate now.
7 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you. We've
8 been joined by Senator Sue Serino, the ranker
9 on -- Social Services? Thank you.
10 And our first questioner is Velmanette
11 Montgomery, chair of Children and Families.
12 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Good
13 morning.
14 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Good morning,
15 Commissioner. Good morning. I'm trying to
16 get the microphone to work.
17 Thank you for those kind words.
18 I want to just ask you, if you will,
19 you mentioned in your remarks that -- let me
20 just give you a little of background. We did
21 some traveling around the state to speak to
22 people who were the front-line people
23 providing services in various aspects of your
24 particular area.
26
1 And one of the things that kept coming
2 up which I found very interesting, that
3 people all over the state, an issue that
4 people are grappling with is how do we
5 improve our system to better address what you
6 have identified as biases that people have
7 that perhaps are unintended. So I interpret
8 that as culturally competent ways of looking
9 at what happens with children and families.
10 And you talked about a blind removal
11 process. I'm just wondering where you are in
12 terms of having counties across the state
13 look at this particular tool in a way that is
14 effective to address the issue of being more
15 sensitive and removing this unintended bias
16 that we bring with us in our work.
17 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Thank you,
18 Senator. Happy to talk about that.
19 So just by way of -- before I answer
20 your question, Senator, just by way of
21 introduction to the topic, you know, while I
22 mentioned in my remarks that we continue,
23 unlike many states, to see a decline in the
24 overall number of children in foster care in
27
1 our state, we have failed to make really
2 significant process in terms of the number of
3 minority children who are in foster care.
4 And so in a general sense in terms of
5 kids in foster care -- and we have under
6 16,000 kids in care. Over 40 percent of the
7 children in foster care in New York are
8 children of color, mostly black and brown.
9 So we've got a ways to go.
10 And so we have been watching for a
11 number of years a pilot initiative that
12 Nassau County Department of Social Services
13 undertook where it introduced a blind removal
14 process. So it's relatively low demand in
15 cost, but it requires a different level of
16 decision-making as to when Child Protective
17 Services is considering the imminent risk
18 removal or removal of a child.
19 And so what Nassau County has done is
20 developed processes where they redact, they
21 de-identify information regarding parents or
22 a child's name, address, zip code, anything
23 that might, right, lead someone to make a
24 decision -- unintentionally. As we all know
28
1 from the work and training on it, this is the
2 way our brains work, unfortunately.
3 And what Nassau County experienced as
4 a result of redacting that and making it
5 blind, right, to race and ethnicity and other
6 issues, is that -- not surprisingly, right --
7 the number of black and brown children
8 entering care in Nassau County declined
9 significantly.
10 And so we have been working with a
11 number of other counties -- Westchester,
12 Onondaga, there's a number of other counties
13 who also wanted to adopt this. So there's
14 been a curriculum that has been developed, in
15 partnership with the School of Social Work
16 here at SUNY Albany. And frankly, the time
17 is now for us to require that every county in
18 the state adopt this blind removal process.
19 And so we at OCFS throughout 2020 will
20 be requiring all the counties to adopt this
21 curriculum and to adopt those practices as
22 they are making decisions -- a very critical
23 decision, obviously -- around children.
24 What I will also say, Senator, is that
29
1 this seems like the logical place to start,
2 right, in terms of child welfare
3 decision-making. It is the most difficult
4 and impactful decision there is, when you're
5 removing a child from their family. But make
6 no mistake about it, we are all aware that
7 there are many other places in child welfare
8 and in all human services, for that matter,
9 where implicit bias enters into
10 decision-making and negatively impacts
11 families and communities of color.
12 So I am hopeful, after we roll out
13 this initiative of blind removals, that we
14 can then continue our work on where else in
15 our system, right, does implicit bias play a
16 role.
17 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you. Thank
18 you for that. And I hope you start with
19 New York City.
20 I just want to just briefly talk a
21 little bit about the Families First. It's
22 very -- I'm inspired and encouraged that this
23 perhaps will be part of how we begin to
24 reduce the numbers of young people in care,
30
1 especially the congregate care.
2 My question to you is, to what extent
3 have we been able to, one, create sort of a
4 target that you have in mind to the numbers
5 that you see us looking more like we should
6 look, as it relates to how many children go
7 into congregate care versus how many children
8 either remain out of foster care or are in
9 other family care? And especially with a
10 sort of, I guess, a target focus on kinship
11 care in particular.
12 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Yes. Yes.
13 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Could you give us
14 an idea of where we are with that?
15 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: So when
16 Family First passed in 2017, right, we knew
17 that we had some ways to go in New York State
18 to sort of re-shift our focus. And when you
19 look back in 2017 to New York State's
20 reliance on congregate care as compared to
21 other states in the country, we were above
22 the national average.
23 And so we began preparing data. We
24 have provided every county in the State of
31
1 New York with very detailed data analysis of
2 where the children in those counties are
3 placed, how many are in congregate care, what
4 levels of congregate care, who are they, how
5 long are they staying, as well as the number
6 of children in foster care, the number of
7 children in kinship foster care, and the
8 number of children being cared for.
9 And so we've done a lot of work since
10 2017, including all the things I've already
11 discussed, to really help counties begin to
12 think about making sure that the only
13 children entering congregate care are
14 children for whom there is no fit and willing
15 relative who would support, right, and
16 services that sometimes are not always made
17 available could be successful in a lower
18 level of care.
19 So we did, we did exactly what you
20 suggested and we set targets as a state. So
21 we said that we would like all -- that we
22 would like, as a statewide target, at least
23 34 percent of kids in -- 30 percent, rather,
24 of children to be placed with kinship care.
32
1 I am happy to say that as of today,
2 statewide -- and it's because many of you
3 have been beating this drum and supporting us
4 in this work -- that today we have 34 percent
5 of children in foster care placed in kinship
6 care.
7 Again, New York City is a little bit
8 ahead of the rest of state, but the rest of
9 the state is really making some very
10 significant progress. So we are -- you know,
11 we're excited about that.
12 But, you know, you also have to make
13 sure that you're not just moving kids out of
14 congregate care, right? Kids in congregate
15 care in our state are kids who have many,
16 many special needs. Right? So when we look
17 forward to Families First and what that will
18 mean -- no one is suggesting that there will
19 not always be a place for our congregate care
20 facilities, right, but we have to make sure
21 under Family First that only those children
22 who need that care get in there, that they
23 only stay for the right dose of time, as
24 determined by an independent assessor, not
33
1 just local districts or the congregate care
2 agencies.
3 And that's where that culture, that
4 sea change, right, that we have to sort of
5 create here is going to be very challenging.
6 And we're doing our best to work with our
7 COFCCA partners, with all the local
8 districts. So we're on our way, but there is
9 still a lot of work to be done in
10 anticipation of the effective date in
11 September of 2021.
12 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you. And I
13 believe I see in the budget where we have
14 eliminated -- proposed to eliminate funding
15 for the Kinship Navigator. So that seems to
16 be going in the opposite direction to what
17 you're saying, so we will continue to have
18 that discussion.
19 And thank you. I hope we'll go far
20 beyond the 34 percent, but we're getting
21 there.
22 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: I hope so
23 too, Senator.
24 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
34
1 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
2 Assembly.
3 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: We've been
4 joined by Assemblywoman Barrett, chair of our
5 Veterans Committee; Assemblywoman Fahy;
6 Assemblywoman Dickens.
7 And we go to Assemblyman Hevesi for
8 questions.
9 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: We've also been
10 joined by Senator Brian Kavanagh. Oh, excuse
11 me, and Senator Gustavo Rivera.
12 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you. So
13 now we go to Assemblyman Hevesi for
14 questions.
15 ASSEMBLYMAN HEVESI: Hi, good morning,
16 Commissioner.
17 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Good
18 morning.
19 ASSEMBLYMAN HEVESI: You know, I've
20 come to look forward to our time together at
21 these hearings.
22 (Laughter.)
23 ASSEMBLYMAN HEVESI: So I'm going to
24 go quick, and there are some questions that
35
1 I'm going to ask Chairwoman Weinstein to ask
2 for me because I'm not going to get to them.
3 So I haven't had coffee, I'm not going fast
4 on purpose, I just -- there's a lot of topics
5 I've got to get through.
6 So first, let me start with a general
7 thank you to OCFS and OTDA and the other O
8 agencies and the agency staff for all the
9 work they do. You really do do a great job
10 under difficult circumstances, and I want to
11 say thank you.
12 A couple of other thank yous. Thank
13 you for continuing the Family First
14 Transition Fund, appreciate that. It's a
15 $3 million -- look for us to try to get that
16 up to 4.5 million, but we appreciate that.
17 I'd like to thank you for the
18 firewall, the kinship firewall. Great
19 proposal, I think that will be very helpful.
20 Look from us, from the Assembly -- and I will
21 talk to my Senate colleagues -- about looking
22 to have an open-ended new funding stream
23 pulling KinGAP out of the Foster Care Block
24 Grant.
36
1 In an effort to replicate the success
2 we had with preventative services, we will
3 drill down on what the right reimbursement
4 for counties is. But we believe that KinGAP
5 is the future. You're moving in that
6 direction. I think we should put some money
7 behind it.
8 Thank you for the childcare tax
9 credit. That's really impressive. You've
10 been listening to the advocates, I appreciate
11 that. And thank you for the childcare slots.
12 This is all good stuff.
13 Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to
14 ask you on four topics. I'll ask them quick,
15 and you can take your time answering them and
16 I'll just go through.
17 In your Article VII language you have
18 some language about assessors, and it seems
19 that the assessor who will be making
20 determinations about placement of children
21 goes above and beyond the federal requirement
22 for Families First, and that gives me pause
23 and scares me a little bit. So that's the
24 first one. I'm going to keep going, so if
37
1 you want to --
2 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE:
3 {Inaudible.}.
4 ASSEMBLYMAN HEVESI: Yeah, sorry, it's
5 the time constraint, I apologize.
6 The second is COPS. You have opened
7 up the Community Optional Preventive Services
8 program. Just if you could touch on what the
9 intent of that is, and make sure that the
10 programs that are already in there stay
11 whole, because there are some very good
12 programs in there.
13 Third topic -- and again, sorry for
14 throwing these all at you -- the
15 public/private partnership. This funding is
16 already used to help vulnerable children and
17 families, and it has a private match. What
18 are we doing with that? I just want to make
19 sure that those programs stay whole.
20 And then the last question -- and I'm
21 sorry to bombard you -- apparently the
22 Childcare Availability Task Force made a
23 bunch of recommendations, but they're not
24 reflected in your budget.
38
1 So I apologize for throwing all that
2 at you. But your thoughts?
3 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Thank you,
4 Assemblyman. And I do appreciation your
5 recognition of the work of my agency.
6 So as for the independent assessors
7 and the proposed language in our Article VII
8 bill, our interpretation of the federal
9 statute and regulations is clear, that the
10 feds expect that it is the role of the
11 independent assessor to determine the
12 appropriateness of the child's stay in
13 congregate care.
14 And if the independent assessor
15 determines -- they have 30 days, under the
16 federal law, to do their independent
17 assessment. If at the end of that 30-day
18 assessment they come back and they say
19 "Sheila does not belong in a QRPT," it
20 requires that the county make an immediate
21 plan to transition that child to an
22 appropriate lower level of care.
23 So they will have up to 30 days,
24 following that 30-day assessment, to make a
39
1 plan to move that child to the right level of
2 care.
3 After that 30 days of transitional
4 funding, the Title IV-E money will go away
5 for the entirety of that child's spell in
6 care going forward. So I want to put that
7 there.
8 The federal bill also sort of -- they
9 complicated things, in our view, that they
10 also said there's an additional new Family
11 Court hearing at a 60-day mark. However, the
12 federal language doesn't give any authority,
13 in our interpretation, to a Family Court
14 judge to overrule or overturn the
15 determination of the independent assessor.
16 Right?
17 So we are concerned that if an
18 independent assessor -- who the feds are
19 saying is really tied to the continuation of
20 these IV-E dollars -- says a child doesn't
21 need this level of care, well, first of all,
22 that was the whole point of Family First, is
23 to say someone needs to be asking hard
24 questions about whether or not this child --
40
1 so it would seem that if an independent
2 qualified assessor says they don't, we should
3 be making plans to step them down or to look
4 for relatives or a foster home.
5 But we're also concerned, Assemblyman,
6 that with that IV-E federal money clock
7 ticking, we don't want to set counties up to
8 unintentionally be assuming. Right? If
9 they're going to lose IV-E funding, what
10 other funding stream, if they keep the kid in
11 congregate care, are they going to be using
12 to support that placement?
13 So that is why our Article VII was
14 intentionally written the way that it was.
15 So I hope that clarifies a bit for you.
16 ASSEMBLYMAN HEVESI: It helps. It
17 does, thank you.
18 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: And again,
19 you know, a bill is the beginning of a
20 conversation. Right? And so we'll be -- I'm
21 looking forward to what our colleagues have
22 to say.
23 So COPS?
24 ASSEMBLYMAN HEVESI: Please.
41
1 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Just to move
2 quickly. So Community Optional Preventive
3 Services, for those of you who might not be
4 familiar with it, has been around. It has
5 been the same funding stream, about
6 $12.1 million. We've been funding the same
7 programs since 2008.
8 And so as we are looking across all
9 our funding streams at OCFS and we're asking
10 questions about when is the last time you
11 looked at this funding stream, is what's
12 being invested sort of in line with where we
13 are 11, 12 years later in terms of
14 Family First and other pressures and our work
15 towards kinship and foster families, what
16 we're simply saying is that the time has come
17 for us to open up COPS.
18 And our goal is to open up a
19 procurement that eliminates some of the
20 restrictions that currently exist in COPS.
21 Because there have been no changes to how
22 COPS funding has been able to be used since
23 2008. It's now 2020.
24 So that's really our intention, is
42
1 it's time to stop, open it back up to be more
2 relevant, right, to where we are in 2020 in
3 terms of the kinds of services and programs
4 that we're trying to implement.
5 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you,
6 Commissioner. Perhaps you could follow up
7 with some of -- in more detail with
8 information to the committee that we could
9 share with the members.
10 So we'll go now to the Senate.
11 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
12 Senator Diane Savino.
13 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you, Senator
14 Krueger.
15 Good morning, Commissioner. I want to
16 thank you for the meeting we had earlier this
17 week where we talked about some of these
18 complicated issues, including the role of the
19 independent assessor and what -- what -- what
20 complications they could create for Families
21 First.
22 I do want to follow up with you,
23 though, at a later time on this blind removal
24 thing. I think I might be the only person
43
1 here -- although there are new members of the
2 legislature -- I think I might be the only
3 one that's ever done that work. So I'm
4 trying to figure out how it would work --
5 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Yeah.
6 SENATOR SAVINO: -- and I don't want
7 to waste our time here today. It's
8 interesting.
9 I just want to quickly raise my
10 concern again about the failure to fund Close
11 to Home. It is probably the most successful
12 program that we've created for young people
13 to turn their lives around. And I'll say it
14 again, as a result of Close to Home, less
15 young people are winding up arrested and now
16 going through the Raise the Age program.
17 I also want to raise my concern about
18 the fact that the city has the bulk of the
19 kids in the Raise the Age program, and
20 they're not getting any money from the state.
21 That's fundamentally unfair. We need to
22 change that.
23 Two other points. I'm very concerned
24 about the workforce. We have, over the
44
1 years, shifted almost the entire burden of
2 child welfare services, with the exception of
3 protective services, to the nonprofit sector.
4 And the turnover in those agencies is
5 extraordinary. And that is equally
6 traumatizing to children, every time they
7 lose someone who is working with them.
8 We need to do something about
9 stabilizing this workforce. Everyone cannot
10 work for the government, and somebody has to
11 work directly with these families. So we
12 find more creative ways to either do tuition
13 loan forgiveness for social workers in the
14 nonprofit sector the way we do loan
15 forgiveness in the public sector. But it's
16 critically important that we stabilize these
17 agencies. They really are the ones who are
18 doing the hard work right now. Not to take
19 anything away from my own union, but they're
20 not doing foster care anymore.
21 One other thing I would like to point
22 out. I know you can't talk about what
23 happened in Suffolk County, it's too soon.
24 But what I would hope that you could convey
45
1 to members is don't jump in with legislation
2 to fix a problem that you might not
3 understand. There's more to every case, and
4 we cannot second-guess our workforce every
5 time a bad case makes the headlines. There's
6 a lot of people that play a role in whether
7 or not children are removed or whether or not
8 there's intervention.
9 So I just would ask you to convey that
10 message to everyone. Calm down, we don't
11 need 50 bills changing the child welfare
12 system thinking that they can solve the
13 problem.
14 And finally, last year we passed a
15 bill on preserving family bonds which would
16 allow for post-termination visitation in
17 particular cases. We broke down over a
18 potential chapter amendment. We still firmly
19 believe in this, that these young people who
20 want to have connections to their parents
21 post-termination should, in certain
22 circumstances.
23 And I understand your department is
24 going to bring forward a departmental bill.
46
1 So if you are, I would appreciate -- let's do
2 it, and let's do it quickly. I think that's
3 a victory that we can have for some young
4 people whose lives have been disrupted by the
5 system, for better or worse, and they can
6 have some continuity with their families.
7 So I think that's it. Thank you.
8 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: I would just
9 reflect back, Senator. You know, your prior
10 experience as a worker in the Administration
11 for Children and Families shines through. In
12 your role as Senator you raise all very
13 important, very challenging issues that, as
14 you know and I think appreciate, we work
15 toward every day at OCFS.
16 And with respect to legislation,
17 right, it is a new year, a new time for, you
18 know, the reintroduction of things that
19 didn't happen perhaps in 2019, and we are
20 always open to having those conversations
21 again. So thank you.
22 And I also want to especially express
23 my thanks to you for your comments. So the
24 Senator is referring to what I'm sure you're
47
1 all aware was a horrific fatality of an
2 8-year-old child in Suffolk County that has
3 been devastating for everyone involved,
4 including the child protective staff in that
5 county.
6 And so because of confidentiality, I
7 know you all appreciate the fact that we
8 cannot speak about the case, but I do want to
9 echo the Senator's caution that it is often
10 during times of a case crisis that we --
11 everyone feels a sense of responsibility to
12 do something, and I appreciate that. But
13 sometimes what we choose to do in the short
14 term is sort of done hastily, and it's not
15 always the right remedy to the solution.
16 So again, I think as we continue our
17 open dialogue and work together, there are
18 ways that we can continue. And I hope -- I
19 hope -- if nothing else, that you see me, as
20 commissioner of OCFS, committed to always
21 working toward that goal.
22 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
23 We now go to Assemblyman Walczyk.
24 ASSEMBLYMAN WALCZYK: Thank you.
48
1 As Mr. Hevesi was saying, and I
2 appreciate all of his questions, the
3 Executive Budget eliminates 3.5 million in
4 P-3 funding. Nonprofits who have created
5 pragmatic and successful programs will be
6 affected here. Can you point to some
7 assessment that would have forced this to be
8 eliminated?
9 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: So I think,
10 Assemblyman, that the short answer to that is
11 that it is part of our contribution, if you
12 will, to trying to assist in helping close
13 the state's budget gap.
14 You know, I can't say for sure, but as
15 we had sort of the COPS conversation, it is a
16 possibility that some of those programs that
17 may no longer be receiving the public/private
18 partnership money, you know, might be able to
19 respond to the procurement of the COPS
20 funding. But I can't guarantee that.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN WALCZYK: But from your
22 agency's perspective there's no assessment
23 that you've done that says, you know, these
24 programs aren't proven or this program should
49
1 be eliminated, the 3.5 million?
2 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: You know, I
3 think our overall assessment has been that
4 all things considered, where we are making
5 our investments, that that $3.5 million is a
6 place where I think we have the opportunity
7 to provide services in other ways. Many of
8 those programs are local programs, with all
9 due respect, you know, to the work that they
10 are doing, so we're not achieving sort of a
11 statewide practice change as a result of
12 those.
13 But again, whenever we have to make
14 these very difficult decisions, we will do
15 whatever we can through other potential
16 funding mechanisms to make that continuation
17 possible.
18 ASSEMBLYMAN WALCZYK: I appreciate
19 that. Thank you, Commissioner.
20 And I think as you sort of segued to
21 COPS as well, if that's opened up, is there
22 an assessment that shows that the agencies
23 that are currently funded through there
24 aren't doing a great job or, you know --
50
1 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: You know, I
2 think my answer is that, you know, COPS was
3 created a long time ago. And that again, we
4 are 12 years ahead now. Our pressures to do
5 business differently, our driving toward more
6 kinship care and doing things sort of -- you
7 know, allow us to ask ourselves the question,
8 which I think we should be, is it time to
9 open this up and try and modernize some of
10 the funding available.
11 ASSEMBLYMAN WALCZYK: I would love to
12 see something on paper there, and maybe your
13 agency can send me something. Because I see
14 those current funding streams as pragmatic
15 progress, the way that the Governor likes to
16 be on it, and I think they've done a great
17 job.
18 The average New York family is
19 spending $16,000 annually on childcare. The
20 next couple of questions are real big
21 picture. How can we reduce that cost?
22 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: {Chuckling.}
23 That is, Assemblyman, you know, the
24 million-dollar question. And, you know, I
51
1 know and you all know that the Governor's
2 Childcare Task Force -- and they are an
3 amazing group of individuals. They are
4 smart, they are fierce, they have rolled up
5 their sleeves and done, you know, an amazing
6 amount of work. And they're fierce, and they
7 are determined to make recommendations for
8 change here. And you'll be hearing, I'm
9 sure, from many of them when they speak
10 later.
11 You know, the challenge for us is in
12 spite of all of the investments that we make
13 on a state level -- the tax credit, our high
14 market rate, the number of children tapping
15 into subsidy, all the good things that I
16 listed out in my testimony -- and even with
17 additional federal dollars coming, you know,
18 the truth is that this is a huge economic
19 issue to solve across the country, and we're
20 no different in New York.
21 And so I think the question before us
22 is even with the state's investments, with
23 the money we get from the federal government,
24 right, we are still falling short in, you
52
1 know, meeting the needs for families who --
2 working families who rely on subsidy.
3 And the cost of care is high. And for
4 good reason, right? Because we have a highly
5 regulated system. We put a lot of value and
6 emphasis on health and safety, you know,
7 regulations here. So it's a very challenging
8 issue.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN WALCZYK: One final one,
10 and you mentioned this as an issue
11 country-wide. I couldn't agree more. We
12 have an interesting demographic in New York
13 State, and I just wonder what you'd think
14 about rural areas and recruiting additional
15 providers. Right now it's not even so much
16 the cost as it is the access to childcare for
17 a lot of the area that I represent.
18 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Yeah. I
19 think that the workforce and the salaries for
20 the childcare workforce and the childcare
21 deserts and the particular challenges in
22 rural communities are just another dimension,
23 right, of the challenges for us to be
24 solving.
53
1 You're right, it is more challenging
2 in some of those rural communities. And
3 grappling with the salary structure and what
4 childcare workers make in New York and across
5 the country is in fact, you know, one of the
6 major components, I think, of the discussions
7 of the task force and the things we are
8 struggling with moving forward.
9 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
10 We've been joined by Assemblywoman
11 Wright. And now to the Senate.
12 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you. We've
13 been joined by Senator Tedisco.
14 And our next questioner will be chair
15 of Social Services, Roxanne Persaud.
16 SENATOR PERSAUD: Good morning,
17 Commissioner. It's always great to see you
18 and to work with you.
19 I am -- in the interest of time, I'm
20 just going to go through some questions that
21 we have.
22 In reference to special education
23 residential placement, can you tell us what's
24 driving the proposal that the Governor has
54
1 sent in the budget of the cost shift? Can
2 you provide us the financial breakdown for
3 school districts? Do you have a geographical
4 map of where these placements are?
5 Also in terms of that, has the state
6 consulted with the educational stakeholders
7 on this proposal? The cost shift is -- it's
8 something that we're very concerned with, as
9 you know. We've had that conversation.
10 Do you also know what is the average
11 maintenance cost for the special ed
12 placement?
13 In terms of the Childcare Availability
14 Task Force, can you provide us a status
15 update on the recommendations that were made?
16 Also, do you anticipate that the task force
17 will be holding any hearings in the near
18 future so that everyone -- the public will
19 have input?
20 Then in terms of the rightsizing of
21 youth facilities, we know that a facility is
22 going to be closed, it's on notice to be
23 closed, it's located in Delaware County. Is
24 there going to be an impact on the workforce?
55
1 What are the plans for that facility? And
2 are there any other facilities that are
3 underutilized at this time that are on the
4 list to be closed in the near future?
5 Okay. I'll give you that, and then
6 I'll come back for my next one.
7 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Okay, great.
8 Thank you.
9 So with respect to the proposal to
10 shift -- it is approximated to be about
11 $22 million out of OCFS's budget, and to
12 shift that to the State Education Department.
13 And that is in the overall context of trying
14 to close the budget gap, Senator.
15 I do not have the distribution by
16 school district of that, nor the actual rate.
17 I can certainly follow up with you, but I do
18 not have that analysis at this point in time.
19 With respect to the Childcare
20 Availability Task Force, so just to be clear,
21 though the task force has been meeting
22 regularly, the final report of the task force
23 is due in December of this year. I do not
24 believe as of now that public hearings are
56
1 contemplated. But there have been,
2 obviously, regular and ongoing meetings.
3 And, you know, so the task force has
4 not issued its final recommendations yet,
5 although I know that members of the task
6 force had hoped to see deeper investments in
7 the budget. But again, that is part of the
8 discussion we had about the challenge, right,
9 and just the magnitude of what is needed
10 here.
11 And then thirdly, Senator, with
12 respect to the proposed closure of one of our
13 juvenile residential facilities, it's the
14 Youth Leadership Academy that you're
15 referring to. It is located in South
16 Kortright in Delaware County. It is a 25-bed
17 limited secure facility, and it has been
18 significantly underutilized over the past
19 couple of years. So on average, we've had
20 seven or eight young people there.
21 And because we have the -- so it's not
22 cost-effective, frankly, to continue to
23 operate that program. And we do have
24 availability in our other OCFS limited-secure
57
1 facilities to accommodate those young people.
2 No layoffs will happen as a result of
3 this, so we have already met with the staff
4 at YLA. We have other OCFS facilities in the
5 Rochester area, in Finger Lakes. And so
6 those staff who work at YLA will have first
7 priority for any vacancies at OCFS, and then
8 they will also go through the civil service
9 ARTL process where they are prioritized for
10 any other civil service positions in other
11 state agencies for which they qualify. And
12 also it's a year closure notice, so we'll
13 have a year to work through that process with
14 the staff.
15 And as for the future intended use of
16 the facility once it's vacated, no decisions
17 that I'm aware of have been made yet.
18 SENATOR PERSAUD: Okay. Quickly, can
19 you tell us about the TANF cost shift in the
20 FFFS services? Can you give us some
21 highlights of that?
22 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: So the
23 proposal in the budget is to increase the
24 child welfare threshold under the FFFS, the
58
1 Flexible Funding for Families. So that also
2 sits in OTDA's budget. It's all TANF
3 funding. I think the total FFFS is around
4 $954 million.
5 The current child welfare threshold
6 that has been in effect is about
7 $342 million. The proposal calls for that
8 threshold to increase to $382 million.
9 So what that means as a practical
10 matter, because it's complicated, is that
11 local districts will be required to spend
12 more of their federal FFFS money before they
13 can tap into the state's 62/38 enhanced
14 reimbursement.
15 So what that may mean for counties
16 is -- it may not necessarily mean a cut in
17 child welfare services, but it is assumed
18 that it will require counties to sort of go
19 back to their FFFS funding, which allows them
20 to pay for a number of services, including a
21 lot of administration costs are in FFFS. But
22 there's other services.
23 And this increase in the threshold is
24 likely to result in districts having to make
59
1 some decisions about how they prioritize the
2 use of their FFFS.
3 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: So, Commissioner,
4 I think we've seen a pattern now. People
5 have a long list of questions for you, and
6 then the clock goes off and you want to
7 answer. What we've done in other hearings --
8 you have staff here. If you will please,
9 your staff, take careful notes, get the
10 answers that you were not able to complete in
11 the time frame for anyone who's asking
12 questions.
13 If you send them to Helene and I, we
14 will make sure all of our colleagues get the
15 letter from you explaining the answers.
16 Because I don't want to show any disrespect
17 for my colleagues or for you being able to
18 answer, but we have these time clocks for a
19 reason.
20 So with that, I'm going to send it
21 back over to the Assembly.
22 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
23 And as my cochair says, just a
24 reminder to members that the time is for both
60
1 your question and answer.
2 Assemblywoman Fahy for questions.
3 ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY: Thank you.
4 Good morning, Commissioner. Thank you
5 for being here. And always good to see you.
6 And I want to start with just a couple
7 of comments. It is good to see that we are
8 seeing some federal increases. So many other
9 areas that we touch into, whether it's the
10 environment or water infrastructure or roads,
11 where we're seeing a rollback. So it is good
12 to see in a few areas where you are
13 mentioning the increases from the feds. So
14 that's somewhat encouraging, given the
15 pushback.
16 I also want to commend the increase on
17 Raise the Age -- that's something that has
18 really helped up here with implementation --
19 and also pleased on some of the kinship care
20 as well.
21 A couple of questions, something I
22 have not heard mentioned. One was the home
23 visiting programs, which you know are near
24 and dear to me and I think would go a long
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1 way, since we've heard a lot today about
2 child abuse and child preventive services.
3 The Healthy Families New York, I think
4 you've proposed -- the Governor has proposed
5 level funding on that. And yet the need -- I
6 think we're serving the tiniest fraction of
7 those who could be served or be eligible.
8 Can you talk about that, and if there's any
9 room for moving the needle on that funding?
10 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Sure. So
11 we're very proud, and thank you for your
12 acknowledgment of our evidence-based Healthy
13 Families program. So the budget does
14 maintain $26 million of stable funding for
15 the program. And we serve about 6,000
16 families a year. I think we conduct over
17 70,000 home visits to families. So it's a
18 very effective program.
19 You know, one of the opportunities --
20 and it's not a this-year thing necessarily,
21 Assemblywoman, but one of the things that we
22 do look forward to is -- again, back to all
23 things Family First -- that down the road
24 when we submit our prevention plan, home
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1 visiting programs are one of the
2 evidence-based models that are in the federal
3 clearinghouse that we can potentially invest
4 IV-E dollars into using to expand,
5 potentially, Healthy Families down the road.
6 ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY: Yeah, I think the
7 evidence is profound, decades of evidence on
8 home visiting programs in general. And we'd
9 love to work with you on really expanding
10 that package. I'd love to see us down the
11 road look at universal access for those
12 programs or universal services for all
13 families, because I do think it is profound,
14 that very earliest of intervention.
15 The second question is on DV. You
16 mentioned in your testimony that there is a
17 growing issue of domestic violence. And
18 certainly we've read a -- you know, I read a
19 lot of the national numbers. And then you've
20 also proposed a new fund for flexible
21 domestic violence services.
22 Can you mention what the growing --
23 you know, what numbers you're seeing on
24 domestic violence in terms of the growing
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1 problem, and then where the flexible domestic
2 violence program has come from?
3 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: So I will
4 certainly say from my child welfare hat and
5 my experience, you know, the prevalence of
6 domestic violence in child protective service
7 reports is astonishing. It is everywhere,
8 seemingly.
9 We're also, right, knowing from some
10 very serious cases reported in the news
11 across the country -- Staten Island, New York
12 City, out in the western part of the state.
13 You know, too many murders, deaths, acts of
14 violence. And I think it's just -- it's
15 nationally recognized.
16 You know, whether it's actually an
17 uptick versus more awareness and folks are
18 coming forward, you know, that's always a
19 question for us.
20 But what we do know is at the end of
21 the day we need to do much more across the
22 system to do more prevention, to really help
23 our service providers who are now, you know,
24 working to meet survivors where they are,
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1 where they're at.
2 Our domestic violence model of funding
3 in New York State has really not changed
4 significantly in 30 years. And, you know, as
5 I'm spending more and more time in state
6 government, there's a lot of things that we
7 really have not taken a look at -- models
8 that were built, you know, 10, 20, 30 years
9 ago that have sort of stayed the same.
10 And as we look across the country and
11 other states, we see new models of
12 innovation. And so as we're doing our work
13 on the task force, we have NYSCADV, we have
14 many of our domestic violence service
15 providers. And so the way that we fund our
16 shelter system now is sort of inflexible in
17 some respects. And so we want to sort of
18 test out some new funding models.
19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY: I'm almost out of
20 time, so I just want to add I'd love to hear
21 more on that. And then, finally, just want
22 to add that the workforce training that you
23 mentioned for the nonprofits, and that some
24 of my colleagues mentioned, would love to
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1 hear more on that point, given the turnover
2 rates really do impact services.
3 Thank you, Chair.
4 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
5 Senate?
6 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
7 Senator Rachel May.
8 SENATOR MAY: Thank you.
9 And thank you, Commissioner.
10 I have just a couple of quick
11 questions. One is -- I represent Syracuse,
12 and we have a sad statistic in Syracuse that
13 about 10 percent of the students in the
14 school district are functionally homeless,
15 which means a lot of them are couch surfing
16 on friends', families' couches and that sort
17 of thing.
18 I'm wondering if you have any systems
19 in place to identify kids who are facing
20 those kinds of challenges and to help them
21 get the services they need.
22 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Yeah, that's
23 a very sobering statistic, Senator.
24 We don't at OCFS, you know, work with
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1 the schools in that way or track those
2 statistics. You know, the way that sort of
3 child welfare system would have knowledge is
4 if there's some reason to believe that those
5 children are being maltreated, and a call
6 would be made to the SCR.
7 But we don't at OCFS. But maybe our
8 colleagues at OTDA -- I don't want to
9 speak -- but as part of their homeless
10 prevention may do some work in that area, but
11 we do not at OCFS.
12 SENATOR MAY: Okay. Thank you.
13 And my other question is about the --
14 I was encouraged to hear about the REDC
15 program actually identifying childcare as a
16 priority. One of the complaints I hear about
17 state economic development is that it tends
18 to prioritize new projects and
19 entrepreneurial projects when there are a lot
20 of things out there that could employ people
21 tomorrow if they just had more funding.
22 So -- and childcare is one of those areas
23 where, if we could just pay childcare workers
24 more, we could employ a whole lot more
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1 people, we could keep the childcare workers
2 off of public assistance, we could make it a
3 job that people wanted to go into at higher
4 rates.
5 Is there -- when those regional
6 economic development decisions are being
7 made, is that being taken into account, that
8 we just want to beef up programs that are
9 already out there?
10 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: I am not an
11 expert in the REDCs, to be honest with you.
12 You know, I think that the -- all the
13 issues that you articulated are -- many of
14 them are issues of the broader task force and
15 of the broader challenge in childcare in
16 New York State. You know, I think we wanted
17 to take advantage of the REDCs, who have
18 their own very specific purpose, right, in
19 sparking, you know, regional economic
20 development and growth. And I think the
21 Governor and the Lieutenant Governor's
22 message to them was while you're doing that,
23 don't forget -- right -- if you're building
24 new businesses, to take childcare into
68
1 consideration. And to your point, they have
2 clearly responded to that.
3 You know, how much we can expect them,
4 you know, to own as part of the greater
5 childcare problem, you know, I think remains
6 to be seen. But I think it is amazing in a
7 very short period of time, right -- in only a
8 year -- that almost $16 million have been
9 sort of in acknowledgment of the overall
10 childcare challenge, so.
11 SENATOR MAY: Great. Thank you very
12 much.
13 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: You're
14 welcome.
15 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
16 Assembly?
17 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: We go to
18 Assemblywoman Barrett.
19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: Good morning.
20 Nice to see you. And thank you for all
21 you're doing and your leadership in this
22 really essential area.
23 I share the comments or support many
24 of the comments that my colleagues raised.
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1 But I just want to focus on workforce and the
2 whole notion of care continuum. One of my
3 great frustrations in government is all the
4 silos and how -- you know, when you try to
5 look at something that works across agencies,
6 there's always kind of roadblocks and, you
7 know, why that should happen. And I know
8 there's been an effort in some of the areas,
9 you know, in Veterans and in Ag and in EnCon,
10 to work across those agencies.
11 But I think that there's a real need
12 in this state for a caregiving continuum that
13 starts with childcare, goes through the aging
14 and the senior population, but in between
15 addresses families with kids with special
16 needs. And so it would be kind of an OPWDD,
17 you know, your agency, OMH, and Aging working
18 together, potentially with SUNY, to look at
19 how we could be doing a better job of
20 creating a professional caregiving workforce
21 that has the prestige and has the career
22 possibilities commensurate with the essential
23 work that they're doing in our communities.
24 And so often this population is -- the
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1 caregivers are women, women of color, often
2 immigrant women, family members, who are
3 often the daughters and the wives who are
4 unpaid. But I feel like we can't just kind
5 of put Band-Aids on this and look for
6 short-term patches rather than address this
7 in a more holistic and more statewide way.
8 And one -- you know, some of us have
9 been looking at the idea of a caregiving
10 fund, a workforce fund that we would put in
11 the budget, you know, and look for innovative
12 solutions in the -- you know, either
13 regionally, for starters, or have it be
14 across the state.
15 And I wondered what you think about
16 that and whether it's something you could
17 support and see working with colleagues
18 around.
19 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: I -- you
20 know, I would acknowledge wholeheartedly
21 that -- and I think as you speak to my other
22 colleagues leading other human service
23 agencies, that workforce is in every
24 conversation. It is a challenge in every
71
1 corner of our work, the not-for-profits and
2 state government and all of our human service
3 agencies as well. And I am more than willing
4 to sit and, you know, dialogue with you about
5 your ideas.
6 You know, the Governor has a new
7 leader of workforce development on behalf of
8 the state, Madhuri, she's fantastic. So I
9 know we would absolutely be willing to sit
10 down, think this through, think about how we
11 can develop some of those strategies.
12 Because, you know, to your point about
13 sort of being siloed, right, it's not really
14 the best way to sort of maximize all the
15 resources and thinking because we're all
16 sharing the same challenges across many
17 sectors.
18 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: Thank you, I
19 appreciate that. Because I think people
20 often do say, Well, we're just talking about
21 childcare, we're not talking about older
22 people or people, you know, that need help
23 with caregiving on a daily basis, or working
24 in an agency. And it is, it's a crisis, and
72
1 it's a crisis that's only going to grow,
2 which I'm sure we'll talk about when the
3 commissioner of Aging is here.
4 But it is a continuum, and I
5 appreciate that and would love to engage with
6 you on that further. Thank you.
7 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
8 Senate?
9 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Senator Sue
10 Serino.
11 SENATOR SERINO: Good morning,
12 Chairwoman Poole. And today I wear two hats,
13 I'm the ranker on Social Services and the
14 ranker on Aging.
15 And I know that we've had this
16 conversation a few times about extending the
17 hours of the Elder Abuse Hotline for -- to
18 make it eventually 24/7. We know abuse
19 doesn't just happen between the hours of 9:00
20 to 5:00. The Governor has expressed support
21 for the initiative but said that it needed to
22 be handled within the context of the budget.
23 And in 2018, we were able to have a
24 compromise in the budget when the Senate
73
1 fought for and we were able to secure an
2 extension of the hours for the Elder Abuse
3 Hotline for a minimum of three additional
4 hours per day, Monday through Friday, from
5 5:00 at night to 8:00 p.m. at night. And the
6 Senate added $326,000 to ensure this was
7 done, which is a minuscule amount of money
8 when you think about our big budget.
9 So my questions -- the first one is,
10 what is the status of the extended hours for
11 the Elder Abuse Hotline right now?
12 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: So I'm happy
13 to say that we continue to provide those
14 extended hours.
15 I also want to point out when we look
16 at the statistics for the numbers of calls
17 being made to the Protective Services Hotline
18 at our Human Services Call Center, we
19 actually saw a pretty significant increase in
20 2019 as compared to 2018. But the vast
21 majority of the increase is actually during
22 the daytime hours when it is -- which makes
23 sense.
24 So the call volume between the hours
74
1 of -- the extended hours of 5 o'clock and
2 8 o'clock is comparatively low when we look
3 at the numbers during the day. But I think
4 the good-news word is out that this call
5 center exists, by virtue of the fact that the
6 number of calls is increasing.
7 And it doesn't appear, Senator, at
8 this point in time, just based on the number
9 volume, that we're not meeting the current
10 need for the after-hours calls.
11 SENATOR SERINO: Really, a year isn't
12 enough time to get the message out there?
13 That's really disappointing that we wouldn't
14 be continuing that.
15 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: No, we will
16 be continuing. Oh, we will absolutely be
17 continuing.
18 SENATOR SERINO: Okay. And keep
19 track. And keep track.
20 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Yes. Yeah.
21 SENATOR SERINO: Oh, okay. All right,
22 very good.
23 And I just wanted to echo some of my
24 colleagues' comments. Assemblywoman Fahy,
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1 when she talked about the proposal to
2 increase the funds for -- the flexible
3 domestic violence funds -- I fully support
4 this. You know, right now the funds that are
5 there are restrictive. So this is a flexible
6 funding. And I know in our community we have
7 DART, which is domestic abuse response teams
8 that -- it's multidisciplinary crisis teams
9 that work with the domestic advocates. And
10 it's just been amazing.
11 So I fully support that. I'm hoping
12 that that continues to go on.
13 And then the other issue was the
14 workforce. I know Senator Savino had spoken
15 about that, and so did Assemblywoman Didi
16 Barrett. And that is so important. Our
17 vulnerable population, they get attached to
18 the people that are working with them, and
19 it's just such a shame. We really need to
20 work on that. And, you know, the Governor
21 fought very hard for the minimum wage
22 increase, but we just -- we need to do more.
23 Costs rise, and we have to be able to ensure
24 that we can keep these workers.
76
1 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: I agree.
2 SENATOR SERINO: Thank you. And I
3 don't think I have anything else.
4 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
5 We go to Assemblywoman Wright.
6 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WRIGHT: Good morning.
7 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Good
8 morning.
9 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WRIGHT: I wanted to --
10 {inaudible; mic off.}
11 Good morning. Can you hear me now?
12 Thank you very much. I wanted to talk with
13 you first about the Family First Preventive
14 Services Act. And we're anticipating
15 $75 million in new funding, but I don't see
16 anything dedicated to permanency efforts for
17 older foster kids in there, and the
18 explanation of where and how we're going to
19 be using the funds.
20 So I wanted to ask, what is it that
21 you're thinking about and how you would like
22 to see this and what you will be supporting
23 to support permanency for older foster
24 children? First.
77
1 And then I'd like to ask you to turn
2 your attention to protective services for the
3 aging. We've had very long conversations, or
4 I and your staff, regarding what and -- the
5 manner in which protective services is able
6 to enter the home and then they have a lack
7 of transparency to report exactly what
8 directed them to enter the home of and to
9 begin the investigation when it becomes --
10 when it's a case of an aging person or that's
11 an alleged abuse.
12 So -- but there's been a tremendous
13 amount of resistance from your office in
14 examining the procedures that we use. But I
15 think that this is one of the cases where we
16 have an old model that's not working and we
17 are not -- we're not giving enough
18 information to the person who is purportedly
19 being abused. And oftentimes -- and in cases
20 that I've reported to you from my district --
21 we've had elders who have been what I would
22 say railroaded into a court process to prove
23 that they're not incapacitated. And as we
24 all know, it's very difficult to prove the
78
1 negative.
2 So I'll give you both of those.
3 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Sure. So
4 I'll start there, and we'll sort of work in
5 reverse order, because I want to acknowledge
6 what you've just raised.
7 And, you know, Assemblywoman, I know
8 that you are very concerned about that one
9 case in particular, and we have done our
10 best, as we always do, to try and address
11 your questions. And I'm sorry that you're
12 unsatisfied with that. I think there are
13 times that despite our perspectives, we're
14 not always able to come to agreement. But I
15 am more than happy to come back to the table
16 with you and to continue those conversations.
17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WRIGHT: But you didn't
18 address what the pol -- the procedure and the
19 regulations that I'm asking you to talk
20 about.
21 So we have a regulation that allows
22 people to enter the home and to call for
23 emergency services if they deem it an
24 emergency.
79
1 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Right.
2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WRIGHT: However, under
3 normal circumstances of an emergency, they
4 are supposed to provide an affidavit to a
5 judge, who expedites that case and gives them
6 an order to enter the home.
7 There's no procedure in place for them
8 to explain why they want to call the police.
9 That's what I asked for, and that's what I'm
10 asking you to address.
11 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: I think that
12 conversation will take a lot of time for us
13 to continue to have, Assemblywoman. But I am
14 happy to continue to have that with you.
15 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WRIGHT: Okay.
16 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: So as for
17 the Family First Preventive Services Fund, so
18 we have $75 million appropriated in the
19 budget. So we think up to $50 million of
20 that will go to New York City to help them
21 continue their services that they did under
22 the waiver.
23 The additional funds are designed, by
24 the federal statute, specifically to help
80
1 states prepare for the transition to the
2 Family First Act. Which is really focused
3 not as much on permanency, but it is focused
4 on the recruitment of kinship foster families
5 and foster families, because that's where we
6 want to move more kids to in placement.
7 However, you know, to your focus and
8 your good question about what about
9 permanency for older youth, what we do know
10 is when children in care are placed with
11 relatives, placed in kinship families, that
12 the likelihood of real permanency is better
13 for them.
14 And so that that's all part of our
15 hope and sort of march forward on Families
16 First, that we're going to have more older
17 teens -- instead of going into congregate
18 care, that we're going to build better
19 systems of support so that foster families
20 and kinship families can care for their
21 teenagers wherever possible so that they're
22 not going into congregate care where
23 sometimes permanency becomes more challenging
24 and we have kids aging out, right, when
81
1 they're 18, leaving care without sort of a
2 permanency resource and a place to live.
3 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WRIGHT: Thank you.
4 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
5 Senate?
6 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Senator Gallivan.
7 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you, Madam
8 Chair.
9 Good morning, Commissioner.
10 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Good
11 morning.
12 SENATOR GALLIVAN: The Governor's
13 budget called for authorizing the transfer of
14 adolescent offenders from the Department of
15 Corrections and Community Supervision to
16 OCFS. And part of the rationale -- among the
17 items the executive talked about is that this
18 will free up 750 beds, allowing for a prison
19 closure. So I don't want to focus on the
20 DOCCS part of it; rather, the OCFS part of
21 it.
22 I have a whole host of questions.
23 Where will you put them? How will you handle
24 it? I didn't see any corresponding
82
1 additional staff to handle it. And the
2 training, the security, all of those things.
3 You can start anywhere.
4 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: We're ready.
5 So we have --
6 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Tell me how. How
7 are you ready?
8 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: So just to
9 say that in OCFS's current secure facilities,
10 about 87 percent of the young people we serve
11 are ages 16 and older. So we already -- and
12 have for years -- served older youth. And we
13 have, you know, youth who have serious
14 charges, longer sentences.
15 We have made -- and I would love for
16 you, Senator, I've offered you this before,
17 but now is another time for me to offer you
18 to come and tour an OCFS facility. I think
19 you would be quite pleased with seeing the
20 investments that we have made in providing
21 college access to young people in our care,
22 doing vocational programs. Our model is very
23 trauma-centered and focused for these young
24 people.
83
1 And so I believe that this is a good
2 proposal. They're talking roughly about less
3 than 40 young people who are in the DOCCS
4 system. I think the numbers of women are
5 extremely low; I think there's one woman.
6 We have available capacity today
7 within OCFS's secure facilities and enough
8 funding for adequate staffing to transfer
9 these youth in -- again, as the Article VII
10 proposal calls for, a planful transition
11 process.
12 So I feel -- I've had numerous
13 conversations with Commissioner Annucci.
14 We've been great partners on Raise the Age.
15 I feel confident in my system that we are
16 more than well-equipped to serve these kids.
17 And I believe what we have built up in our
18 youth justice system over the past decade at
19 OCFS can really achieve better outcomes for
20 those young people when they leave care.
21 SENATOR GALLIVAN: So DOCCS had
22 originally planned for the male population to
23 be -- to have essentially an east and a west,
24 two separate facilities, I believe, for them.
84
1 How would you -- so you say you have the
2 capacity. Would they be going to facilities
3 across the state, these adolescent offenders,
4 or are you focused on one or two geographic
5 areas of the state?
6 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: We have
7 capacity at a number of my secure facilities.
8 So one of the first things that we would do
9 with DOCCS is figure out where is home for
10 the 30-plus young people that they have. And
11 we would do whatever we can with our existing
12 capacity, right, to try and position young
13 people in the transfer to sort of be as close
14 to their homes as possible.
15 Because one of the other elements of
16 our work in youth justice is a strong
17 emphasis on family engagement and after-care
18 services. So that would be the ideal plan.
19 And as I said, Senator, with our current
20 available capacity at OCFS, I think we can
21 absolutely achieve that.
22 SENATOR GALLIVAN: The time is now to
23 follow up on that.
24 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Right. I
85
1 hope you'll come to visit.
2 SENATOR GALLIVAN: It simply has been
3 scheduling rather lack of desire. But I
4 think it's more than appropriate now.
5 Thank you.
6 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Assembly.
7 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: We go to
8 Assemblywoman Dickens.
9 ASSEMBLYWOMAN DICKENS: Thank you,
10 Madam Chair.
11 And thank you, Commissioner, for your
12 testimony and being here this morning and the
13 work that you've done, which has been great.
14 However, I do want to piggyback on my
15 colleague Assemblymember Wright's question
16 about the elder abuse, in that frequently
17 particularly single women, seniors -- the
18 Department of Aging focuses on them because
19 there's no one to really care for them,
20 there's no relative, no children, no husband,
21 no family -- they are removed out of the home
22 once they start having difficulty and then
23 their homes are put up for sale.
24 But if there is a small mortgage --
86
1 because frequently those homes have been paid
2 for. But if there is a mortgage left on
3 there, the banks are complicit in this, in
4 that the house is sold and then the money is
5 not -- none of the money is designated even
6 for them to have burial, let alone any
7 additional money. The money is taken by the
8 Department of Aging.
9 So I'd like you to address that.
10 That's number one.
11 The second thing is -- and this is
12 rather short. In the Domestic Violence Task
13 Force -- and I commend you for being the
14 cochair for that. Domestic violence cases,
15 frequently the children are put into foster
16 care if it's designated that the mother is
17 unable to protect the child. And I see here
18 that, for instance, there's been a proposal
19 in the Executive Budget to decrease, for
20 instance, kinship care by $2 million and the
21 Youth Development Program by $1.5 million,
22 settlement houses, 2.45, and Safe Harbour,
23 3 million. That could significantly impact
24 particularly the kinship care on the care
87
1 that the youth can receive from family
2 members that may need the additional help.
3 In addition, because of the necessity
4 for mental health, I see that also for a
5 union professional development, that there is
6 a proposal in the Executive Budget that
7 although 4.3 million is there for childcare,
8 that it represents a decrease of 4.3 million
9 for FY '19-'20 for state support for
10 professional development and quality
11 enhancement activities.
12 Can you give me some answers to that,
13 please. Because -- and the other thing is
14 that frequently in certain communities it's a
15 severe undercount in the number of domestic
16 violence cases because culturally they don't
17 make the report. So the numbers that we see
18 are really not the correct numbers.
19 Thank you.
20 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Yeah, of
21 course.
22 So when you began your comments, you
23 described something that sounds very alarming
24 about some of the patterns that you may be
88
1 seeing in your district. I would like us to
2 follow up, Assemblywoman, and perhaps bring
3 our commissioner for the Office of Aging just
4 to talk about some of those case-specific
5 scenarios and find out what's really going on
6 there.
7 So the cut that you referenced is with
8 respect to contracts that we have had with
9 our partners at UFT and CSEA for professional
10 development and grant programs. And they are
11 proposed, as you said, for a reduction. And
12 I want to say that the work that they've done
13 is very valuable. In fact, when you look at,
14 though, the amount of money that has been in
15 the contracts versus the amount of money that
16 actually has been spent in the contracts,
17 there's been a lot of underspending of those
18 contracts.
19 And so I think what our sense is is
20 after having experience with these contracts
21 for a number of years now, that what we
22 believe should remain in the budget actually
23 more accurately reflects what the right
24 spending level is for those programs.
89
1 The second thing I would say is even
2 with the proposed funding reduction that
3 we're talking about, that based upon the
4 current funding that is still left from
5 previous contracts, that both UFT and CSEA
6 should be able to continue the work they're
7 doing with their existing funds through the
8 end of 2021.
9 ASSEMBLYWOMAN DICKENS: All right.
10 Well, thank you so much. Because that
11 includes mental health, and that's extremely
12 important for women of domestic violence
13 families and their children. So thank you so
14 much.
15 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Thank you.
16 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Senate?
17 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you. So
18 this isn't a question for you to answer
19 today, but hopefully you and your people can
20 put together a chart for us.
21 It seems to me that there is a pattern
22 over -- I'm going to say let's go back eight
23 years. We keep shifting more and more of the
24 cost for human services, children's
90
1 services -- the same question will be for
2 OTDA afterwards, so if they're here
3 listening, I'd like a chart that shows X
4 program that's within your agency, what
5 amount did you spend each year, what percent
6 was state responsibility, what percent did
7 you send over to the localities.
8 Because I'm very concerned, and I
9 think many of us are, that we keep balancing
10 our budget by shifting the cost
11 responsibilities to the localities. We cut
12 our aid continuing to them. We cut our local
13 share, we tell them they have to cap what
14 they can tax themselves.
15 And I think we maybe walk through life
16 with the illusion that as long as it's
17 getting paid for somewhere, it's getting
18 taken care of. But you and I both know
19 that's not how life works. The localities
20 then find themselves unable to keep up with
21 the increased costs on themselves, so they
22 end up not delivering on the programs that we
23 all think are the right programs, or having
24 to cut something else that isn't as extreme a
91
1 mandate for them, which also does longer-term
2 harm.
3 So that's all I'm asking for. It's a
4 chart showing the amount change and the
5 percent of change of what is state and what
6 gets passed on to the localities for your
7 full budget.
8 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Thank you.
9 I have your request, Senator.
10 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
11 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: We go to
12 Assemblywoman Jaffee for five minutes.
13 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: Thank you,
14 Commissioner. I wanted to follow up on
15 something that I think is really essential in
16 the conversation. In my discussion with a
17 variety of childcare leaders throughout the
18 state, an issue of great concern has been
19 availability of the workers, the childcare
20 workers, who are at the levels of
21 professional development that is so essential
22 in terms of their education and preparation.
23 So there's -- the difficulty is often
24 the limited amount of funding that can be
92
1 provided to the childcare program limits
2 their ability to be able to provide the
3 salary for the workers that encourages
4 workers to come into the childcare program,
5 that encourages them to maintain those
6 programs after they've gone to college and
7 gotten that level of education at that cost,
8 and too many, as have been noted, move on to
9 other levels of jobs.
10 And so there has been a great deal of
11 struggle within the childcare programs on
12 maintaining the programs at a level that is
13 so essential in terms of the workers who are
14 educated in the areas that are absolutely,
15 you know, needed and required for these
16 programs.
17 And so it truly is a major issue that
18 we need to focus on in terms of providing
19 more state funding for our programs so that
20 they can then assure that there is the level
21 of academic ability of these workers and then
22 attracting workers at salary levels that
23 maintain them.
24 So that really -- these are very real
93
1 issues. As well as -- well, the task force
2 that I created that we're discussing, maybe
3 we can sit down with the task force and talk
4 about their thoughts about this issue as
5 well. Because it really is something that
6 has come up over and over again in my
7 conversation with childcare programs in a
8 variety of areas.
9 So it's something that we need to move
10 forward with to assure that there are enough
11 childcare providers and then, within that
12 context, the workers are those that have that
13 education level that is so essential.
14 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: I can assure
15 you, Assemblywoman, that what you just
16 articulated is among the top-line issues and
17 concerns being discussed and brought forward
18 as part of the task force, for sure.
19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: So we will --
20 can sit together, because it's something that
21 we really need to move forward and assure
22 that we are responding to this very real
23 issue. So thank you.
24 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
94
1 We'll go to Assemblyman Ra for a question.
2 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Good morning.
3 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Good
4 morning.
5 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Thank you. I just
6 had a question about the Pay for Success
7 program that had been launched a few years
8 ago. There's been, you know, appropriations
9 made for this. Is that operating? Or where
10 are we with regard to that program? Or is
11 that more OTDA?
12 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Yeah, that's
13 not in my agency budget. I think
14 Commissioner Hein and his staff can better
15 answer your question, Assemblyman.
16 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Okay, thank you.
17 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: So --
18 Commissioner, so I have a few questions. And
19 we'll start with a couple that Assemblyman
20 Hevesi didn't have a chance to get to.
21 So the federal Family First Transition
22 Act also includes -- there's been some
23 discussion about that already -- resources
24 for jurisdictions who are transitioning off
95
1 Title IV-E waivers. And New York City was
2 the only jurisdiction to have the waiver. So
3 it's about $50 million that we do for
4 New York City. So I think we just want to
5 make sure and clarify that that money will be
6 for New York City, as intended by the federal
7 government.
8 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Yes. So the
9 answer is yes. The federal bill on that is
10 very specific about what portion of the
11 funding, of the total funding pool has to be
12 directed toward those communities who had a
13 waiver. And by extension, given that ACS was
14 the only community that participated in the
15 waiver, that money will be directed to ACS.
16 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: And how is the
17 state planning to use the 25 million from the
18 federal Family First Transition Act?
19 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Yeah, so we
20 expect that -- I don't know that it's going
21 to be 25 million, but I think we think it's
22 around $21.4 million.
23 And as I described earlier, we have
24 not made decisions yet about how. It's a
96
1 one-time infusion of dollars. It's not a lot
2 of money when you look at everything we have
3 to do between now and September of 2021 to
4 adequately prepare for it.
5 But it will absolutely -- you know,
6 Congress intended this money to support
7 states' efforts to make the transition. So
8 again, looking at further efforts to support
9 kinship families, further efforts to recruit
10 and support foster families. We're going to
11 have to think about how do we prepare
12 independent assessors, how do we allow
13 agencies who might be interested in applying
14 to be a QRTP but don't have an accreditation.
15 There are a lot of things sort of on a list
16 for us to take into consideration, you know,
17 given what I think is a welcome but
18 relatively modest pool of money, all things
19 considered.
20 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Then a question
21 about -- that really goes -- that is both to
22 you and I guess as it relates to OTDA also --
23 the child welfare services funding stream has
24 historically been funded with $635 million.
97
1 The Executive proposes a $25 million
2 reduction and would require an additional
3 25 million of the FFFS to be used for child
4 welfare, which seems to leave that whole.
5 But there's a question that the city
6 has used -- historically used some of that
7 funding for senior centers. So I guess by
8 putting the -- is there a way to assure that
9 both the children and seniors remain whole?
10 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: So,
11 Assemblywoman Weinstein, I -- and again, I
12 will defer to my friends at OTDA who are more
13 expert than I on it. So I think the funding
14 stream that you're referring to for the
15 senior centers in New York City was Title XX
16 funds. And I don't believe that that is on
17 the table or impacted by the FFFS.
18 But if I am wrong, Commissioner Hein
19 and his exec dep will tell me.
20 But there is no question that it will
21 require -- it will have a $25 million impact,
22 assuming that the counties are spending in
23 the way that they have before.
24 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: And then a
98
1 question -- several years ago, actually based
2 on some legislation that Senator Savino and I
3 had sponsored, we raised the age for runaway
4 and homeless youth that could be served up to
5 age 21. And we're wondering if these youth
6 are being served. Now that there's the
7 authority, is the funding stream sufficient
8 to serve them? And can you just give some
9 feedback on what's happened since we made
10 that change.
11 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Well, you're
12 not giving yourselves enough credit, because
13 you actually got it raised to 24.
14 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Okay. Oh,
15 right, from 21 to 24. You're right, yes.
16 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: So since
17 that was passed, there are about 14 counties,
18 including New York City, who have opted in to
19 take advantage of that expansion. There are
20 a small number of programs that have actually
21 been certified to date to serve the older
22 population.
23 So I know in New York City they did a
24 separate procurement. I believe they have
99
1 four programs in the city who are able to
2 serve the older youth. In upstate, I believe
3 there are two programs. And I understand
4 that there are also several others in the
5 state that are considering taking advantage
6 of the option.
7 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Great. And I
8 was wondering, last year we had some
9 discussion when you were here about changes
10 to -- the proposed changes based on a federal
11 guidance related -- in relation to domestic
12 violence programs, relating to public
13 assistance.
14 And I just wonder if we can get an
15 update on how that change is working without
16 the requirement to have to apply for public
17 assistance. Have programs reported decreases
18 in funding as a result? And what findings
19 did -- I assume the task force looked at this
20 also -- did the task force make?
21 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Yeah,
22 absolutely.
23 So, you know, as you may recall, when
24 that change was made and there was a lot of
100
1 concern about it, we committed to keeping a
2 careful watch on sort of what was the
3 downstream impact of that.
4 And we meet regularly with NYSCADV --
5 both OCFS and they are a valued member of the
6 DV Task Force. So we have not heard of any
7 significant concerns. And had not heard
8 anything from any local department of social
9 services, of course, concerned that it
10 would -- you know, by not requiring them to
11 apply for public assistance, you know, create
12 other challenges.
13 I will say to you just last week I met
14 with all of the local district commissioners
15 for their annual conference, and there were a
16 couple of smaller counties that did say to me
17 that they've seen a bit of an increase. That
18 was the first time after over a year I had
19 heard that. So we are following up, as we
20 promised we would, you know, with those
21 counties to see really what the impact was,
22 because that was our commitment, that we were
23 going to be keeping an eye on that.
24 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Great. I
101
1 believe that that is the end of questions
2 from the members. I know there are a few
3 items that you'll get back to us on that
4 there wasn't time to address. And thank you
5 so much for being here today, Commissioner.
6 OCFS COMMISSIONER POOLE: Thank you
7 all very much.
8 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Next we'll be
9 hearing from the New York State Office of
10 Temporary and Disability Assistance, Michael
11 Hein, commissioner.
12 Just letting everybody -- a minute to
13 let everybody settle down.
14 (Pause.)
15 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Okay,
16 Commissioner Hein, you're welcome to --
17 welcome, and please begin.
18 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Thank you
19 very much.
20 Good morning, Chairpersons Krueger,
21 Weinstein, Persaud and Hevesi, as well as the
22 other esteemed members of the New York State
23 Legislature. I am Mike Hein, the
24 commissioner of the Office of Temporary and
102
1 Disability Assistance, and it is my honor to
2 appear before you today to discuss the
3 2021 Executive Budget and the important work
4 of our agency.
5 OTDA's core mission is to help
6 vulnerable New Yorkers by ensuring essential
7 services for families and individuals that
8 help them advance economically by providing
9 meaningful opportunities for stable
10 employment, better access to affordable
11 housing, and quality nutrition for both
12 themselves and their families.
13 In addition, our agency administers
14 vital programs for those temporarily unable
15 to work, as well as for many working families
16 who simply struggle to make ends meet. These
17 programs create much-needed housing and
18 provide employment services, healthy food as
19 well as heating assistance. We also inspect
20 homeless shelters to improve safety and
21 security, make critical disability
22 determinations that dramatically improve
23 people's lives, provide child support
24 services, as well as assist refugees and
103
1 immigrants that come to New York in search of
2 the American dream.
3 And this year we are extremely pleased
4 that while the Executive Budget addresses
5 serious fiscal concerns, it continues the
6 Governor's $20 billion investment in
7 affordable housing, which is creating or
8 preserving more than 100,000 units of
9 affordable housing and 6,000 units of
10 supportive housing over five years.
11 All of these efforts share a common
12 goal -- and that is to help individuals and
13 families meet immediate, essential needs
14 while supporting their efforts to achieve
15 lasting economic security.
16 Building on this initiative, the
17 budget makes a major new investment in the
18 Homeless Housing and Assistance Program, or
19 HHAP, by actually doubling the funding from
20 $64 million to $128 million, while investing
21 $5 million for projects specifically designed
22 to assist homeless veterans.
23 HHAP provides pivotal capital grants
24 and loans to expand and improve the supply of
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1 permanent supportive, transitional and
2 emergency housing for individuals
3 experiencing homelessness.
4 This funding expansion will help a
5 wide range of populations, including those
6 experiencing mental illness, and also
7 substance use disorder, victims of domestic
8 violence, youth, as well as our veterans.
9 Under Governor Cuomo's leadership,
10 New York has also made a strong commitment to
11 fighting hunger and ending food insecurity.
12 The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program
13 has been a vital part of that work. SNAP can
14 provide more than $6,000 a year for a typical
15 household, making it significantly easier to
16 feed a family and make ends meet.
17 Currently, there are roughly
18 1.5 million households in New York, totaling
19 nearly 2.6 million people, receiving
20 approximately $360 million in SNAP benefits
21 each month.
22 In this year's State of the State, the
23 Governor announced plans to further expand
24 access to SNAP for eligible community college
105
1 students, ensuring more students receive
2 essential nutrition assistance as they work
3 towards a college degree or certificate and a
4 better future for themselves and their
5 families.
6 And to reach even more people, OTDA
7 has worked with the Department of Health and
8 NY State of Health so that people who are
9 eligible for Medicaid can quickly opt in to
10 receive information about SNAP and over
11 100,000 applicants have already done so.
12 On another positive note, the
13 Executive Budget increases funding for the
14 very successful Summer Youth Employment
15 Program, providing $45 million to help
16 approximately 19,000 young people from
17 low-income families get a job this summer.
18 This program helps youth develop relevant
19 skills that can lead to improved school
20 performance, better positioning them for
21 success in the future.
22 The Executive Budget also continues
23 New York State's commitment to OTDA's other
24 core programs. This includes resources to
106
1 fund the agency's child support program,
2 which collected more than $1.8 billion last
3 year on behalf of nearly 800,000 families.
4 As you know, child support is an
5 important source of income that helps
6 families achieve financial stability. It
7 reduces childhood poverty and, in turn,
8 childhood trauma.
9 OTDA also oversees the federally
10 funded Home Energy Assistance Program that
11 helped nearly 1.5 million households heat
12 their homes last winter and reduce energy
13 needs through energy-efficiency investments.
14 This winter, HEAP again allows for a
15 maximum regular benefit of up to $726, which
16 is especially helpful for low-income
17 households that pay a higher percentage of
18 their income towards energy costs.
19 Senators and Assemblymembers, like
20 you, we at OTDA fully recognize the
21 importance and gravity of the work we are
22 committed to and the lives we touch in the
23 process. In partnership with the Governor
24 and the State Legislature, through every
107
1 program that we administer, we strive to
2 empower vulnerable New Yorkers to improve
3 their financial security and household
4 stability in support of stronger individuals,
5 families, and communities all across our
6 state.
7 I want to thank you for the
8 opportunity to appear before you today, and I
9 welcome your comments and questions.
10 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: We go to the
11 chair of our Social Services Committee,
12 Assemblyman Hevesi.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN HEVESI: Thank you,
14 Chairwoman.
15 Good morning, Commissioner. How are
16 you, sir?
17 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Good morning.
18 Good.
19 ASSEMBLYMAN HEVESI: Thank you for
20 coming, and thank you for all of the work
21 that you and your staff -- and I see some of
22 them here, Ms. Guinn, Ms. West and the
23 rest -- thank you for all the work that you
24 guys do at the staff level.
108
1 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Thank you.
2 ASSEMBLYMAN HEVESI: I know you do
3 good work under difficult circumstances. It
4 is appreciated.
5 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Thank you.
6 ASSEMBLYMAN HEVESI: I am going to
7 focus on one topic only today. It's -- we've
8 talked offline about this, and it will be a
9 little out of left field. Normally people
10 would expect me to talk about homelessness, I
11 am not going to -- with the exception to say
12 I am going to leave that alone because I
13 believe that the big dogs at the mother ship
14 are going to be handling that. That includes
15 both chairs of Ways and Means and the
16 Speaker; they are fully engaged now -- and I
17 believe the Majority Leader as well -- and
18 they will be handling the issue of
19 homelessness. So I'm going to move on.
20 The one issue I want to talk to you
21 today -- and I need your help, frankly -- is
22 human trafficking. And I've got to set the
23 stage for my colleagues just so we all have a
24 sense of how we got there.
109
1 So a couple of years ago the Assembly
2 held a hearing about human trafficking and
3 identified that the primary need for
4 trafficking victims is you've got to get them
5 out of the abusive environments, you've got
6 to get them safe houses. And we put in a
7 bill, the bill was passed unanimously by both
8 houses -- that means every one of my
9 colleagues voted for it -- and it was a nice
10 victory, and the law requires -- and this is
11 my Bernie Sanders moment: "I wrote the damn
12 bill." So --
13 (Laughter.)
14 ASSEMBLYMAN HEVESI: So the bill says
15 that for every trafficking victim in New York
16 State, there will be culturally competent
17 short-term and long-term safe houses --
18 again, to take these victims of human
19 trafficking out of the abusive environments
20 so they don't have to -- and I don't want to
21 overstate this, but we're talking about
22 predominantly women who are being sexually
23 abused, raped, beaten, branded, drugged, the
24 worst horrible abuses. And every night that
110
1 we in government are not providing those
2 actual safe houses I believe is our problem.
3 So I'd like to work with you. I just
4 need a couple of pieces of information about
5 the -- how we fill that need. Okay? So the
6 first question for you is, how many certified
7 human trafficking victims are there -- or
8 survivors, I shouldn't say victims, survivors
9 in New York State?
10 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Well, that
11 question is two parts. One is -- I have the
12 question of how many we are serving.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN HEVESI: Mm-hmm.
14 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: And then the
15 size and scope of the problem.
16 ASSEMBLYMAN HEVESI: Great.
17 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: I think
18 there's no question that the size and scope
19 of the problem, we are serving a fraction of
20 that. And that is consistent with what's
21 happening all across the country. There is
22 an enormous challenge bringing people forward
23 and making sure that we're able to provide
24 them services.
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1 So there's a huge outreach effort
2 going on right now. The legislature did a
3 great thing when it changed the law and made
4 sure that we could supply services for
5 individuals regardless of their immigration
6 status, which was a critically important
7 component.
8 There's also a reality that we should
9 talk about, and that is that the numbers that
10 we saw going from '15 to '16 were a
11 significant increase -- a 150 percent
12 increase. And then what we saw was a
13 leveling. And the challenge that we saw at
14 that point, that we clearly are seeing right
15 now is while we are seeing more individuals
16 who are documented, we are seeing a
17 significant drop-off in people who are
18 undocumented, victims who are willing to come
19 forward, because they're concerned about the
20 net outcome for them.
21 And so that's a component of this
22 process. Again, the number that we are
23 actually serving is consistent across the
24 board, it's about 288 individuals at this
112
1 point.
2 ASSEMBLYMAN HEVESI: Two-eighty-eight.
3 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Correct.
4 Now, the question about housing is a
5 really important one. And there might be a
6 nuanced distinction here, but I think it's
7 important that we have the conversation and
8 we appreciate the discussion.
9 To provide this service across the
10 entire state, we partner with six incredibly
11 strong not-for-profits. And in our
12 conversations with them what they have made
13 very clear to us is they are able to provide
14 housing to all who need housing -- and that
15 is, again, all who will accept assistance in
16 providing housing, because not everyone that
17 comes forward will accept housing assistance.
18 But the ones that do, and there's a large
19 percentage of them that will, we provide the
20 entire myriad of services to them, whether
21 that be permanent housing, temporary housing,
22 obviously, or emergency housing as well.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN HEVESI: Okay. So first,
24 thank you for the 288 number, that's helpful.
113
1 And again, you know, this will wind up being
2 a range, it always is, when you're trying to
3 budget.
4 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Sure.
5 ASSEMBLYMAN HEVESI: And we have
6 corresponded -- my colleagues don't know
7 this, but we have corresponded about this,
8 and I know that we rely heavily on -- I
9 thought it was five RHTPs, the regional --
10 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: We've added
11 another one.
12 ASSEMBLYMAN HEVESI: You added another
13 one?
14 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Yes.
15 ASSEMBLYMAN HEVESI: Okay, great.
16 I know we rely on them to make
17 determinations about what housing needs to be
18 provided and what services need to be
19 provided, but under the law that we just
20 passed, all of them are entitled to housing.
21 So that's number one.
22 Number two, the temporary -- some of
23 the housing methodologies that you had
24 mentioned in your letter -- housing
114
1 methodologies sounds weird. The types of
2 housing that you had mentioned in your letter
3 include domestic violence shelters, temporary
4 shelters and others. None of those -- and
5 this is an important point that we need to
6 agree on -- none of those comply with the
7 law.
8 Domestic violence shelters do not
9 provide the same services as is now required
10 by -- for safe houses and long-term houses.
11 Neither does temporary housing. They may
12 provide some, and I'm open to the idea that
13 some of the housing could be in compliance.
14 But as a general principle, the answer is we
15 are no longer in compliance with the law.
16 So I'm going to assume, in the absence
17 of other information from you -- and we'll
18 share and work on this together --
19 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Sure.
20 ASSEMBLYMAN HEVESI: -- that none of
21 the 288 that we're supposed to be serving are
22 in housing that complies with the law that we
23 just passed.
24 And as such, it is now our job as the
115
1 Legislature and the Executive to figure out,
2 okay, you have 288 certified victims, they
3 are all legally entitled to housing, the
4 housing is supposed to have a number of
5 components, now we've got a budget for it.
6 So how are we going to do that? How much
7 capital money is that going to take, how much
8 operational money is that going to take? And
9 I would like to get those answers and work
10 with you in time for this budget.
11 My only concern is that we don't come
12 to an agreement on what those numbers are in
13 time to act this year, and then we would have
14 to wait another budget cycle. And as you and
15 I both know, and I'm sure we agree, the
16 victims of human trafficking don't have
17 another year to wait for us to get our act
18 together and get the right housing.
19 So I would like to -- thank you for
20 the 288 number, that's very helpful as a
21 baseline for our Ways and Means staff. We
22 would like to work with you on maybe in the
23 Governor's 21-day amendments -- and certainly
24 in our Senate and Assembly one-houses --
116
1 coming back with a program to comply with the
2 law to create and build, if need be,
3 culturally competent, short-term and
4 long-term safe houses. So I look forward to
5 working with you on that, sir.
6 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Thank you.
7 ASSEMBLYMAN HEVESI: Thank you very
8 much, Commissioner.
9 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you. We
10 go to the Senate.
11 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you. The
12 chair of Social Services, Roxanne Persaud.
13 SENATOR PERSAUD: Good morning.
14 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Good morning.
15 SENATOR PERSAUD: Thank you,
16 Commissioner, for being here.
17 And my mic just doesn't want to work
18 today. Can you hear me now? Great.
19 I'm going to start with the Summer
20 Youth Employment Program. I know you were
21 touting the success of that program. Why is
22 it, then, that we're not adding additional
23 slots for kids across the state? You know,
24 we're increasing the budget by a million
117
1 dollars; it's only covering the cost of
2 wages. Why aren't we adding additional
3 slots?
4 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Again, we're
5 very pleased at, again, the success that
6 we're seeing. We're seeing it across the
7 entire state, and that's one of the real
8 wonderful parts about it. That's what makes
9 it such a success, it works upstate, it works
10 downstate, it works across the spectrum.
11 It really comes down to this is a
12 conversation in the context of a larger
13 budget question. These are difficult
14 financial years, and we firmly -- we're
15 committed to making sure that we move forward
16 and continue what we had. And obviously we
17 made accommodations for the additional rate.
18 SENATOR PERSAUD: But wouldn't it be
19 in our best interests to ensure that those
20 kids who are coming from the vulnerable
21 communities are actually being employed by
22 the Summer Youth Program?
23 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Again, I
24 understand the question. I'm very concerned
118
1 about making sure that we retain the funding
2 that we're talking about here. It is a
3 $45 million expenditure. And we are very
4 pleased about it, and we know that we will be
5 serving 19,000 youth in this process.
6 But I understand your question. I
7 think it really comes down to -- it was a
8 budgetary question.
9 SENATOR PERSAUD: Okay. Now, my
10 colleague spoke about the homelessness issue.
11 And, you know, we don't want to belabor the
12 questions about homelessness. But have we --
13 in 2018 when we added the $50 million to the
14 pilot program for HSS, have we looked at the
15 cost, you know, how much it's really costing
16 us? And are we intending to add additional
17 counties to that program?
18 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: To the pilot
19 program?
20 SENATOR PERSAUD: Mm-hmm.
21 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Maybe we
22 should talk a little bit and get kind of an
23 update on where we stand at this point.
24 Currently where we stand in that is
119
1 that Monroe County has been approved, and
2 they are beginning that operational side in
3 Rochester. And then what we expect in our
4 conversations with New York and where we're
5 at is that New York will be operational by
6 June of this year. And obviously we're
7 anxiously awaiting the outcomes of that.
8 That's again a significant commitment and I'm
9 looking forward to seeing what the results
10 are.
11 But no, at this point there hasn't
12 been a conversation about adding additional
13 cities to that.
14 SENATOR PERSAUD: Okay. You know,
15 every day we hear about the homelessness
16 crisis across our state. We look -- you
17 know, I'm from New York City. We see it
18 every day.
19 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Sure.
20 SENATOR PERSAUD: And we -- I'm not
21 sure when we'll get a handle on that
22 situation. And there is a need for us to do
23 more. And, you know, if we have to add more
24 counties to HSS -- we have to do something.
120
1 We need to get people off the streets. No
2 one across the State of New York should be
3 living on the streets in the conditions that
4 they are living in.
5 You know, this morning I turned on the
6 television and I am hearing talks about, you
7 know, the possibility of us spending money to
8 keep a football team in New York State -- but
9 we have people living on the streets. Those
10 are the kinds of things -- we have to
11 understand which is more important. People
12 living on the streets of New York City and
13 New York State is not acceptable. We have to
14 do more on that.
15 You know, we've had these
16 conversations, and I really appreciate you
17 coming in and us having these conversations
18 so that we can really fight for the people
19 across the state who are most in need.
20 Can you tell us about, you know, the
21 SNAP benefits and what the federal government
22 authorization is going to do to the
23 population of New York State, the SNAP
24 population?
121
1 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Sure. I
2 mean, what you're talking about is some of
3 the rule changes associated with SNAP?
4 SENATOR PERSAUD: The rule changes,
5 yes. Mm-hmm.
6 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Well, again,
7 there was a recent Supreme Court ruling that
8 just came down on the {inaudible} --
9 SENATOR PERSAUD: An appellate --
10 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: -- area of
11 that, many of us know.
12 SENATOR PERSAUD: Yup.
13 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: It removed a
14 stay that was in place, and so now that rule
15 has taken effect.
16 SENATOR PERSAUD: Yup.
17 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: For us, it
18 has been -- we've been working in advance of
19 that, obviously. And to us it's about
20 reducing the size of the pool of individuals
21 who would be impacted by this rule change.
22 Obviously early on when the rule
23 change first came out, we put out comments on
24 that that were very focused against it, as
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1 did many other people -- actually, 100,000
2 comments plus, the vast majority against.
3 The unfortunate truth is not only did they
4 move forward with it, we think they've
5 actually made it worse.
6 And so the reality of this process is
7 that it will be in effect as of April 1st of
8 this year. Again, our role is to minimize
9 the negative impact in that situation. So we
10 look at the pool of individuals that are
11 affected, and we want to make sure that their
12 status hasn't changed, that there aren't some
13 other mitigating factors that would remove
14 them from that pool.
15 Again, so we're in the process of
16 trying to reduce that with all of the
17 districts. And then, at that point, working
18 more with the districts to make sure that all
19 of the necessary training and assistance is
20 available for them so that individuals aren't
21 impacted. So there's an aggressive effort to
22 be able to help ensure that that rule change,
23 when it takes effect on April 1st, either
24 impacts the fewest amount of people or has no
123
1 impact in New York, and that's the goal.
2 SENATOR PERSAUD: And you've allocated
3 funding -- what is the cost to the state so
4 far, based on your calculations?
5 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Well, again,
6 we work extensively with the districts on a
7 daily basis, and those costs are rolled into
8 OTDA's normal budget.
9 SENATOR PERSAUD: This is over 100,000
10 people we're talking about that's in that
11 pool.
12 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Correct. We
13 think that at this point it's 113,000 people
14 in that pool.
15 SENATOR PERSAUD: Thirteen thousand?
16 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: One hundred
17 and thirteen thousand.
18 SENATOR PERSAUD: Interesting.
19 The cost shift to New York City, can
20 you talk about that? Why are we -- you know,
21 we only last year shifted additional costs to
22 New York City, and right at -- again, we're
23 shifting it more. Why is that necessary?
24 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Well, I think
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1 it's important that we talk about really
2 where this is at. And I think this is a
3 challenging public policy conversation that
4 needs to take place.
5 When we talk about where that 10 and
6 now 15 percent proposal would come from, it
7 really is directly tied to the escalation in
8 Family Assistance, Family Assistance dollars.
9 It's the rate of increase associated with
10 that.
11 And the rate of increase isn't going
12 up commensurate with cost of living, it isn't
13 going up commensurate with caseloads, it's
14 going up, in our most recent calculations,
15 almost quadruple anywhere else in the state.
16 And so it is our position that it's not
17 unreasonable for New York City to share in
18 that process as we look to try to identify
19 ways to be able to control those costs and
20 control the rate of increase.
21 SENATOR PERSAUD: But New York City is
22 sharing the burden of the increase, the
23 highest --
24 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: It's an
125
1 eight -- it's an eight -- with Family
2 Assistance we're still paying 85 percent in
3 this proposal.
4 SENATOR PERSAUD: Okay. Thank you.
5 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Again, I
6 understand the position and I understand the
7 question. And I understand it can be
8 controversial. But I also -- again, it's not
9 an unreasonable thing to start to examine
10 that escalation in cost that goes to, again,
11 near quadruple anywhere else in the state.
12 SENATOR PERSAUD: Quadruple. Okay.
13 And my final -- the Empire State
14 Poverty Reduction Initiative. Have all the
15 municipalities developed their plans as yet?
16 And what is the status of the implementation
17 plans across the municipalities?
18 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Sure. Again,
19 a wonderful innovative way of being able to
20 look across the entire state to try to
21 develop different strategies that were really
22 grassroots-driven. That's phase -- Phase 1
23 really was working with the individual -- 16
24 individual communities on strategies that
126
1 they believed could be helpful in reducing
2 poverty in their particular area, with a
3 respect for what works in one location may
4 not work in another.
5 That really was Phase 1. Phase 2 was
6 the implementation and operationalizing of
7 those plans, which has taken place now and is
8 taking place as we speak.
9 The next phase is -- we expect that
10 there will be a full recommendation made
11 going into next year's budget based off of
12 those, on things that we have seen that have
13 worked -- because again, it is designed in
14 many ways to be an incubator. So to be able
15 to identify ways and programs that we think
16 should be expanded throughout the state.
17 SENATOR PERSAUD: Okay, quickly, the
18 $40 million reduction from the Flex Fund for
19 Family Services, can you talk about that?
20 And is there really a need for concern about
21 that, the cost of that shift?
22 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: I think --
23 I'm always a big believer in having these
24 conversations in a very frank way. There's
127
1 no question there's a $25 million positive
2 impact to the state budget.
3 That said, in that action we firmly
4 believe that it also prioritizes child
5 welfare, that we all believe is critically
6 important in that fund. We also believe that
7 we'll be able to work -- {time clock
8 beeping}.
9 Did my answer get beeped?
10 SENATOR PERSAUD: Can he finish
11 answering the question for me, please? Thank
12 you.
13 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Give it a whirl,
14 yup.
15 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Okay, I'll
16 give it a whirl.
17 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: And then when we
18 cut you off, you will answer anything further
19 in writing to us all.
20 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Absolutely.
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
22 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: So -- I'm
23 sorry, where were we?
24 (Laughter.)
128
1 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: We'll get
2 back to that question, I apologize.
3 SENATOR PERSAUD: Thank you.
4 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
5 Assembly.
6 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: We go to
7 Assemblywoman Jaffee.
8 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: Thank you.
9 There is so much need, and we really -- in so
10 many communities, it's truly unfortunate and
11 troubling and very traumatic in many areas.
12 I can tell you I've met with so many
13 throughout -- in my areas as well who are
14 struggling. Too much homelessness in this
15 state. It's just unacceptable.
16 But I wanted to ask -- and I thank you
17 for the work that you are doing, and the
18 leadership, and really attempting to respond
19 to so many of these issues and to so many
20 families in particular.
21 In terms of certain of the issues
22 regarding mental illness or substance abuse,
23 domestic violence, all those real issues, is
24 there counseling -- did you -- how do you
129
1 move forward in terms of providing support?
2 Is there recommended counseling? How does
3 that work?
4 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Okay. I
5 think -- if we're talking about street
6 homelessness at this point --
7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: Well,
8 homelessness in --
9 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: In general?
10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: -- you know,
11 those who have substance disorder, what
12 exactly is provided to assist them?
13 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Well, the
14 nonprofits that we work with, and we work
15 with shelters on plans, and we also work with
16 the local districts that will bring those
17 types of services into the shelters to be
18 able to assist in that process.
19 We're also simultaneously working with
20 OMH on strategies to be able to enhance
21 mental health services -- again, one of those
22 classic conversations where no one who is
23 seeking true mental health services who walks
24 into a hospital should ever walk out the door
130
1 the next day. Okay? To be able to try to be
2 in a scenario where we're able to provide
3 real assistance and real services is
4 something that we're working on.
5 We also have homeless services plans
6 with each one of the districts specifically
7 dedicated to being able to address mental
8 health issues as well as substance abuse
9 issues.
10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: Thank you. I
11 think what I'm going to do to move forward,
12 given this information, is meet with some of
13 these groups to really see exactly how things
14 are moving forward. So I appreciate that,
15 and the funding that's provided. Because it
16 really is a disaster in certain areas, you
17 know.
18 Thank you.
19 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
20 To the Senate?
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
22 Senator Velmanette Montgomery.
23 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: {Mic off.} Thank
24 you. Good morning, Commissioner.
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1 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Good morning.
2 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: {Mic on.} Good
3 morning. Thank you so much for your patience
4 answering some questions.
5 I just want to ask you specifically
6 about the whole issue of homeless housing.
7 So I was able to visit one of the programs
8 that really focuses on housing for young
9 people, and the thing that was so striking to
10 me is that it's really a very strong
11 organization, they do a very excellent job.
12 They serve young people, I believe up to
13 maybe age 24 or so, but for practically every
14 young person in that program, in that
15 facility, with excellent supports, great
16 service, great outcomes. But it took
17 basically a whole staff department to figure
18 out how each of those young people, how their
19 service was funded.
20 So it just occurs to me that we have a
21 great investment in terms of homeless
22 housing, but there are so many different
23 regulations for the same population. I just
24 don't understand.
132
1 So my question to you is, to what
2 extent are we looking to coordinate the
3 funding streams and the regulations and the
4 guidelines and all of those things between
5 the different agencies, you and other
6 commissioners, HCR and whoever else is doing
7 housing, so that there is a uniform way of
8 looking. If a person is homeless, if they
9 were just recently homeless, if they were
10 about to be homeless -- why should we have a
11 different set of regulations for each of
12 those different categories? So that's one
13 question that I have.
14 And the other thing that I would like
15 to ask you to comment on, all over the
16 state -- we've been traveling around the
17 state, and everywhere we go, homeless and
18 housing are critical issues for practically
19 all of the different categories of people who
20 are vulnerable, and families in particular.
21 So how are we looking at this as a statewide
22 issue but looking at the different regions,
23 what their needs are, and ways in which we
24 can tailor our activity to meet the needs
133
1 from Long Island to the rest of the state?
2 And the last part of my question is,
3 families and children are particularly
4 vulnerable. The way that we -- so children
5 also need to be able to get into a school no
6 matter where they end up, where their family
7 ends up, whether it's the Bronx or Brooklyn
8 or whatever. And many times we have families
9 who are temporarily housed in Brooklyn,
10 children left school and have to go all the
11 way back to the Bronx, and it just creates an
12 impossible life for young -- for children
13 whose families find themselves in homeless
14 shelters in particular.
15 So I would like to hear how you are
16 looking at trying to figure out a resolution
17 or a solution to some of these issues that
18 we're talking about.
19 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: I'd like to
20 start by saying that may be the best question
21 I've ever been asked.
22 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: And you only have
23 a minute, so we'll --
24 (Laughter.)
134
1 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: -- I know, we'll
2 take it in writing, but whatever you have to
3 say --
4 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Very
5 comprehensive.
6 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: -- would be
7 helpful.
8 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: I'll go fast.
9 (Laughter.)
10 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: First and
11 foremost, I understand -- I've been in these
12 shelters, I've seen the issues, and I
13 understand the importance of being able to
14 make sure that children can go to the school
15 and keep a continuity and what that can mean
16 in the quality of an individual's life. What
17 that means also for the entire family, for
18 after-school programs, for the like.
19 So there is a significant commitment
20 to that in the shelters at this point, but I
21 always say we can do better. And so there's
22 a reality on that front.
23 The homeless services plans that we're
24 talking about, when you hear us mentioning
135
1 those, those really are designed to be able
2 to better coordinate services. That's the
3 next logical step, first to develop the
4 homeless services plans and then to begin to
5 work on a level of coordination between
6 agencies, between local districts and the
7 state to ensure that it's seamless. And to
8 make sure that there isn't waste when it
9 comes to the process, to make sure the
10 services that are delivered are actually
11 benefiting the individuals who are in need.
12 {Timeclock beeping.}
13 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: And
14 streamlining --
15 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Just under
16 the wire.
17 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: -- streamlining
18 regulations, please.
19 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Correct.
20 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
22 Assembly.
23 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: We go to
24 Assemblywoman Barrett.
136
1 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: {Mic off;
2 inaudible.}
3 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Thank you
4 very much.
5 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: Ah, here we
6 go.
7 I would like, if you could, to have
8 you share with us -- first of all, I want to
9 thank you for the money and the attention to
10 homeless vets. Obviously, as chair of
11 Veterans' Affairs, that's a key issue.
12 I would like to hear your thoughts on
13 what is in this budget to support people at
14 risk and others in rural communities. I
15 always feel like this budget focuses so much
16 on urban issues, and we have issues of
17 homelessness, we have issues, obviously, of
18 rural suicide where -- you know, agricultural
19 challenges, all sorts of things going on in
20 our -- the rural parts of the state. And I'd
21 love to hear your thoughts on that, please.
22 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Sure. I
23 think one of the challenges -- and again,
24 having come from the role of a county
137
1 executive in a rural county that also had an
2 urban center in it, we understood fully the
3 differences that could exist in those
4 situations. And obviously rural poverty is
5 very different in those situations.
6 For us, it still comes about making
7 sure that everybody has access to services,
8 making sure that social service districts are
9 doing what they're supposed to. We have a
10 regulatory role in that process, in making
11 sure the programs that we roll out really are
12 thoughtful of the idea that what works in,
13 say, Clinton County is very different than
14 what may work in the Bronx.
15 And so there's a real thought process
16 that goes into all of our planning in this
17 process. And again, those homeless services
18 plans, when you're dealing with specifically
19 the homeless population, it's again tailored
20 to the individual district.
21 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: But what does
22 that look like? Because I don't think that
23 we have the services in the rural parts of
24 the area that we have in even -- in -- for
138
1 example, like, you know, in Kingston or in
2 Poughkeepsie, the eastern parts of my
3 district aren't -- don't have any of those
4 resources.
5 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: I wouldn't
6 disagree that there are areas that are less
7 served than others, there's no question about
8 that. And I think that there needs to be an
9 effort towards that end. I think we're very
10 focused on being able to make sure we bring
11 that kind of parity across the system.
12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: Okay. So at
13 the moment there isn't anything intentional,
14 but you'll work on that?
15 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Absolutely.
16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: Okay. Thank
17 you very much.
18 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Thank you.
19 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Senate?
20 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Senator May.
21 SENATOR MAY: Commissioner, you
22 probably heard the question I asked earlier
23 about functional homelessness. Is that a
24 concept that you deal with? We have a lot
139
1 of -- we said 10 percent of the student
2 population is either homeless or functionally
3 homeless in Syracuse, so they're living on
4 someone's couch.
5 Is that -- is that just a concept in
6 your lexicon, and do you have ways of dealing
7 with it?
8 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: It's not lost
9 on us at all in that situation. And we
10 recognize that there is a portion of the
11 population that is, for lack of a better
12 conversation, couch surfing. And that
13 scenario, we are very focused and working
14 with the not-for-profits and with the schools
15 to make sure that we can identify those
16 individuals and those families, to make sure
17 that they are accessing the services that are
18 available in that particular district. That
19 really is the challenge, though.
20 But there's no question, there's a
21 segment of the population that is not falling
22 into the standard counts.
23 SENATOR MAY: All right. Thank you.
24 And do you expect the MRT process to
140
1 have representation of people who represent
2 the concerns of community-based nonprofits
3 that are dealing with the needs of people
4 with disabilities or the populations that you
5 serve?
6 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: I would defer
7 to others on discussions about the MRT. I'm
8 sure that all of us are anxiously awaiting
9 what is inevitably going to be a very
10 difficult job.
11 SENATOR MAY: Okay. And then finally,
12 about refugees. So all across the Thruway
13 communities, refugees are very important
14 parts of our communities.
15 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: No question
16 about it.
17 SENATOR MAY: And the federal
18 government has basically abdicated its role
19 both in resettling refugees but also
20 supporting the refugees who are here already.
21 Just can you tell me what you're doing
22 to support the organizations that are there
23 to help them --
24 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Sure.
141
1 SENATOR MAY: -- and the people
2 themselves?
3 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Again, in
4 serving our refugees -- I'll give you the
5 good news. There hasn't been a drop in
6 federal funding at this point. Okay? That
7 doesn't mean that we're not concerned about
8 it, because we are. When the access to
9 communities, especially in New York, of
10 individuals who are coming who are refugees,
11 it's a deep concern. We have seen a
12 significant drop in numbers.
13 The Governor has made it very clear
14 that New York is open, New York is here and
15 welcoming, and it's what we were built on and
16 that we are very focused on that. So -- but
17 when it comes to the services, obviously
18 language services, obviously any and all of
19 the social services that we have available on
20 the human services side of the house, making
21 sure that access to schooling and culturally
22 competent services -- that front as well.
23 SENATOR MAY: So is there any kind of
24 additional funding -- I mean, when you say
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1 federal funding hasn't dropped --
2 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: It doesn't
3 mean --
4 SENATOR MAY: If they're not
5 resettling people --
6 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Correct.
7 SENATOR MAY: -- then they are not
8 sending the money in.
9 And there are a bunch of organizations
10 that -- Interfaith works, for example, in
11 Syracuse, which does a huge amount of work
12 with refugees, and they have depended -- you
13 know, a lot of their funding has come from
14 new refugees coming in and they're not
15 getting that funding now. So they're having
16 to stretch everything they've got to provide
17 the language support services and the, you
18 know, cultural support services that
19 they're --
20 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Sure.
21 SENATOR MAY: So I'm just wondering,
22 is the state trying to fill those gaps?
23 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Yeah, I think
24 it probably warrants a further conversation.
143
1 And if you don't mind, I'd like to be able to
2 have that with you.
3 SENATOR MAY: Okay. Thank you.
4 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: You're
5 welcome.
6 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
7 Assembly.
8 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Assemblyman
9 Walczyk.
10 ASSEMBLYMAN WALCZYK: Thank you,
11 Chairwoman.
12 Good morning, I think, still.
13 Commissioner, appreciate the time.
14 We've talked a little bit about
15 different solutions to end homelessness in
16 the State of New York, and we actually have a
17 program by that title already, the Solution
18 to End Homelessness Program, or STEP, as many
19 call it.
20 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Sure.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN WALCZYK: Why, in your
22 view, were a handful of counties in rural and
23 upstate New York denied their renewal for a
24 five-year contract in this last round last
144
1 year?
2 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Well, I think
3 it's really important, when we talk about
4 STEP, we highlight the fact that there was no
5 cut in the STEP funding.
6 There is a normal process of the
7 procurement that takes place every five
8 years. And in that process we are very
9 focused on being able to make sure that we
10 obviously follow the rules, follow the law,
11 and make sure that we meet -- again, some
12 wonderful, wonderful programs that are out
13 there.
14 But we also do recognize that in that
15 process sometimes there are programs that are
16 not selected, and they can be -- we're aware
17 of the program that you're speaking about,
18 and we're very focused on trying to figure
19 out are there alternative ways to be able to
20 move through procurement going forward. And
21 we look forward to having that conversation
22 as well.
23 We think there could be kind of a
24 step-down process to STEP that might be also
145
1 helpful. We're exploring different options.
2 ASSEMBLYMAN WALCZYK: Well, I
3 appreciate that, and your remaining open and
4 flexible and understanding.
5 As we were talking on the dais here, I
6 could hear a number of different things that
7 certainly strike home for me. Watertown,
8 New York, is home to the Urban Mission, who
9 has taken advantage of STEP funding in the
10 past and is actually I think a shining
11 example of what we can do here to bridge
12 people out of poverty and provide that sort
13 of extra hand up for their independence.
14 They actually have a 97 percent success rate
15 six months after someone has used rapid
16 rehousing through Urban Mission and your STEP
17 funding. Six months later, they're in stable
18 housing and independent -- 97 percent of
19 their clientele.
20 You know, in 2018 they served 830
21 families: 34 percent of those families had
22 children under 18, 3 percent of them were
23 veterans. So, I mean, we're hitting a lot of
24 the -- you can talk about the programs and
146
1 consolidating all of them. I think this is
2 one of those excellent methods that when you
3 leave it to the locals who know it and do it
4 every day, it's a shining example of what we
5 can do right.
6 So I appreciate your flexibility and
7 look forward to working with you further on
8 that one.
9 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Thank you
10 very much, Assemblyman.
11 ASSEMBLYMAN WALCZYK: Most programs
12 that we have in the State of New York -- this
13 is a little bit bigger-picture, if you'll
14 entertain me --
15 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Sure.
16 ASSEMBLYMAN WALCZYK: -- are based on
17 income thresholds. And I just wondered if
18 you could sort of explain your beliefs in
19 benefit cliffs and whether they're a myth or
20 a reality, and then what we can do and what
21 your agency can do moving forward to
22 eliminate some of those benefit cliffs
23 programmatically. And how we as
24 policymakers, sitting here and making
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1 decisions that restrict you and your agency's
2 ability, what we can do to make a difference
3 and remove some of those cliffs.
4 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Again, the
5 concept of benefit cliffs are huge and
6 depends on -- again, it's a public policy
7 kind of a conversation that is so critically
8 important: Making sure that an individual
9 who is receiving services isn't provided with
10 a disincentive to be able to continue to
11 transition.
12 That's why currently in our benefits
13 package there are transitional benefits to be
14 able to assist people in a whole host of
15 areas, whether it be through SNAP or whether
16 it be through Medicare. It's a whole host of
17 benefits that come through on a transitional
18 basis to be able to assist in that process.
19 But again, as we look at what these
20 cliffs look like, those are big, real
21 conversations. If what we're talking about
22 is providing additional benefits, we have to
23 understand what's the exit strategy to help
24 someone transition off of public assistance.
148
1 A good example of that is making sure
2 that they have significant employment
3 training that can get someone through that
4 process. Last year 51,000 individuals
5 transitioned from public assistance into the
6 private sector.
7 (Discussion off the record.)
8 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Senator Savino.
9 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you, Senator
10 Krueger.
11 Good afternoon. Just 12 o'clock on
12 the dot, Commissioner.
13 I just want to quickly echo some of
14 the comments of some of my other colleagues,
15 my concern about the Summer Youth Employment
16 and the length of OMH time it takes to do the
17 processing.
18 As well as -- I'm going to tell you
19 the same thing I told you last year and as I
20 recently told Commissioner Poole from OCFS.
21 It's beginning to be offensive -- and I know
22 this is not your decision; you didn't craft
23 the budget. It's beginning to be offensive,
24 though, as a New York City representative and
149
1 a New York City taxpayer, that the state says
2 to the City of New York that the people who
3 live there are your responsibility with no
4 obligation on the part of the state. It's
5 just inherently offensive to New York City.
6 They are not New York City's children or New
7 York City's elderly or New York City's
8 seniors or New York City's poor. They are
9 the state's. We are all residents of this
10 one state. I just have to say that again.
11 Because assuming that the city will
12 pick up the responsibility for everything
13 because they will find a way to make it work,
14 these are also requirements that are placed
15 on the City of New York by the State of
16 New York.
17 So I would just hope that we could
18 begin to stop this trend of shifting the
19 burden totally to the City of New York for
20 everything.
21 I want to ask specifically about one
22 program because, as you know, there are
23 severe challenges to providing housing for
24 people who are either suffering from mental
150
1 health issues or the fragile elderly. A lot
2 of them have relied on adult homes over the
3 years. The adult home industry is closing
4 largely because of the Olmstead decision,
5 which says we have to move people to, you
6 know, independent living where we can. Many
7 of those individuals are decompensating, and
8 they are winding up in our nursing homes
9 because there's nowhere for them to go
10 because the adult homes aren't there.
11 One of the things that could help
12 stabilize the adult homes while they're still
13 needed is an increase in the SSI rate. And I
14 know the feds have pushed through this SSI
15 COLA increase. What can we do to allow them
16 to capture more of the SSI rate so that they
17 can help provide more stable homes for people
18 who really have nowhere else to go?
19 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: We recognize
20 that there was legislation to be able to move
21 down that path. I think the conversation
22 really moves now to -- again, that took place
23 outside the budget confines last time, and it
24 ultimately ended up in a veto.
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1 I think the question really is to have
2 those kinds of public policy conversations
3 during the context of the budget, because --
4 SENATOR SAVINO: What we're doing
5 right here. That's why I'm asking you.
6 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: I appreciate
7 that. But we don't -- it's not that we do
8 not understand and appreciate the management
9 magnitude of what those organizations do.
10 SENATOR SAVINO: Well, I just don't
11 want to go down that rabbit hole again where
12 we pass legislation and the Governor vetoes
13 it, saying it belongs in the context of the
14 budget, and we try and put it in the budget
15 and they kick it out and say do it later in
16 legislation, because that's not solving the
17 problem. We really need to figure out an
18 answer to that.
19 And I think that was it. Oh, no, one
20 question. In the Governor's budget proposal
21 he projects that public assistance cases are
22 going to be reduced by about 6,000. How do
23 we -- where did we arrive at that number?
24 How did we arrive at the projection that
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1 we're -- public assistance either applicants
2 or cases are being reduced or dropping?
3 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: No problem.
4 We used an econometric model that was
5 consistent with how things are going across
6 the entire state and what trends are showing.
7 And that's traditionally the model that we
8 utilize to be able to do that.
9 Again, we have seen trends moving
10 downward at this point. But also, obviously,
11 we have to make sure that OTDA is prepared,
12 in case we have a scenario where the economy
13 turns or other challenges come forward, we
14 have to be able to provide those services.
15 SENATOR SAVINO: And I just want to
16 echo also the concern about the benefit
17 cliff. We hear that routinely from agencies
18 that employ people who are marginal. And
19 unfortunately, one of the unintended
20 consequences of the minimum wage increase is
21 it puts people up against the benefit cliff
22 and it forces them to make a very harsh
23 decision, staying in the workforce or leaving
24 their job because they can't afford to
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1 replace Medicaid, SNAP, or any of other
2 supplemental benefits that they receive.
3 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Sure.
4 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you.
5 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Thank you.
6 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Assembly.
7 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: We go to
8 Assemblywoman Wright.
9 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WRIGHT: Good afternoon.
10 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Good
11 afternoon.
12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WRIGHT: Thank you very
13 much for being here.
14 And I guess my question sort of
15 follows suit to some of the others that have
16 already been made, because we are talking
17 about how we're tailoring needs to actually
18 address what the local communities need
19 and/or have decided would help their local
20 population. But we're finding that it's --
21 so I'm going to ask you to help me reconcile
22 or how we might be able to reconcile the
23 challenge that we're facing, in that housing
24 for the elderly -- I live in an aging
154
1 community -- the housing for the elderly and
2 the benefits for the elderly, particularly if
3 we use the term fragile elderly, is being
4 supplanted with homeless and oftentimes
5 chronic homeless when we try to develop
6 housing options for our aging communities.
7 So I guess I'm going to pass that to you.
8 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: To me, I look
9 at these scenarios and say to myself, these
10 are -- though they're oftentimes discrete
11 populations, the reality is there's need for
12 help on both fronts. Okay?
13 And so when it comes to what OTDA
14 focuses on, we're very focused on homeless
15 housing, obviously, through HHAP as a
16 critical component of that. We're excited
17 about what that means in making sure that
18 those housing projects take place. But we
19 shouldn't lose sight of the fact that we also
20 invest heavily as a partner from HHAP in
21 projects that serve a great deal of people
22 across the entire spectrum, not just
23 individuals who are homeless.
24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WRIGHT: So I guess
155
1 because we're not seeing an emphasis on the
2 elderly or those who are disabled elderly,
3 we're not getting funding to help support
4 that endeavor.
5 So in aging communities where people
6 are unable to take stairs, they need
7 assistance to get dressed, they -- we're
8 just -- we're -- I understand the emphasis on
9 homelessness. But what we're doing is
10 creating a population of elderly that are
11 homeless or going into nursing homes
12 prematurely, and they shouldn't have to do
13 that.
14 So I guess what I'm asking as if
15 there's a way for us to begin to emphasize
16 that there is a disabled elderly population
17 that needs particular attention.
18 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: The answer is
19 yes. It's not a traditional HHAP kind of a
20 discussion, but there's no question that
21 there's need in the area.
22 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WRIGHT: Okay. What
23 about as a disability conversation? Are we
24 having it as part of the disability
156
1 conversation? Because that would be a
2 disability.
3 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: The answer
4 would be yes, in other agencies within state
5 government. The disability within OTDA
6 really is about disability determinations.
7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WRIGHT: Okay. All
8 right, thank you.
9 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
10 Senate?
11 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Senator Sue
12 Serino.
13 SENATOR SERINO: Thank you.
14 And good afternoon, Commissioner Hein.
15 So good to see you here. And as
16 Assemblymember Barrett said, we miss you in
17 the Hudson Valley but are very happy that
18 you're here.
19 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Thank you.
20 SENATOR SERINO: And I'd like to just
21 comment on Assemblyman Hevesi's comments on
22 human trafficking. I thank him and you for
23 working on that. It's something that we've
24 been working on in the Hudson Valley as well.
157
1 And I always say education is the key to
2 prevention. I carry a couple of bills for
3 that.
4 I was thrilled to see the additional
5 $5 million included in the proposal to
6 address the issue of homelessness among
7 veterans. I was just wondering if you can
8 tell us how that funding would be
9 distributed.
10 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Well, the
11 exciting part about that is that the
12 additional $5 million will obviously go for
13 units across the state, to be able to provide
14 housing for the individuals.
15 We are also seeing homelessness among
16 the veterans population around the state fall
17 precipitously, so the capacity to be able to
18 really move towards a number where we
19 hopefully long for the day where there are no
20 homeless veterans anywhere. And so this is
21 an effort to be able to push towards that
22 direction. You'll see additional units being
23 built, but we shouldn't lose sight that the
24 housing units that HHAP also does oftentimes
158
1 have a veterans component attached to them.
2 I was at an incredibly wonderful
3 opening at a place that's called Serve Vets
4 in Coney Island, and it really is
5 extraordinary. We're seeing individuals have
6 life-altering experiences. I was in the
7 apartment of a gentleman who really was so
8 proud to be able to show it, and it was the
9 first time he had permanent housing in
10 20 years.
11 SENATOR SERINO: Oh, that's amazing.
12 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: A wonderful
13 veteran.
14 SENATOR SERINO: I'm concerned,
15 though, there's a line in the proposal,
16 though, that reads, essentially: However, if
17 an insufficient number of viable proposals
18 for veterans are received, the balance of the
19 funding can be used for the development of
20 housing for other priority-need populations.
21 And I know that we're talking about it
22 going down, but I've known you for a long
23 time and I know, like me, you care deeply
24 about our veterans.
159
1 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Sure.
2 SENATOR SERINO: So I just wanted to
3 put this on your radar. And you know, we --
4 and I know the Dwyer money doesn't come under
5 your budget, but the Dwyer funds and the
6 people that work -- I know in our district we
7 have a great team of guys and gals, and they
8 help get that message out and they find our
9 homeless veterans. So I don't know if other
10 areas are the same. So when you're not
11 getting proposals from other areas, they just
12 might not have their finger on the pulse like
13 our guys do. So just something -- like I
14 said, I'd like to put that on your radar, and
15 hopefully take that --
16 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Your point is
17 not lost.
18 SENATOR SERINO: -- part out if it's
19 at all possible.
20 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: I think it's
21 designed to be able to provide maximum
22 flexibility. I don't see it ever being a
23 provision that would be utilized. In that
24 situation we fully expect that we will have
160
1 to satisfy veteran proposals to be able to
2 move this forward.
3 We're working, again, with Veterans'
4 Services at the state level also to make sure
5 that we're coordinated in our efforts,
6 because I think it's really important.
7 SENATOR SERINO: That's great. Thank
8 you so much.
9 And Senator Savino had spoken to you a
10 little bit about the SSI. And like you said,
11 that's something that we've passed bills, you
12 know, constantly in the Assembly and the
13 Senate, and the Governor had vetoed it. And
14 I understand that the SSI pass-through falls
15 in your portion of the budget.
16 So the current rate, for those that
17 are listening, is only $41 a day. And
18 because of this abysmal rate, dozens of homes
19 serving SSI individuals have closed after the
20 last few years. You know, I was chair of
21 Aging for four years, and now ranker, and it
22 just breaks your heart because it's one of
23 our most vulnerable populations. So -- and
24 that state supplement has only been increased
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1 once in 25 years.
2 So I wanted to know what you think
3 about -- is the $41 a day adequate? What are
4 your feelings on that?
5 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Again, this
6 is that time for that conversation. Because,
7 you know, we've talked about whether it takes
8 place in or outside the budget. Clearly it
9 is budget time and it's an internal budget
10 conversation, and we would be glad to be able
11 to participate in that conversation.
12 SENATOR SERINO: Great. I look
13 forward to talking to you, Commissioner,
14 about this, so can we fight for our
15 vulnerable population. Thank you.
16 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Thank you.
17 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
18 Assembly.
19 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: We'll go to
20 Assemblyman Ra for a question.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Good afternoon.
22 So I tried to ask this earlier, but
23 I'm told you are the appropriate
24 representative to ask about the Pay for
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1 Success program.
2 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: I'll have to
3 take that up with Sheila.
4 (Laughter.)
5 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Or you can take it up
6 with Assemblyman Hevesi, because he also
7 recommended --
8 (Laughter.)
9 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: -- that I ask you
10 about the issue.
11 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: I hate to do
12 this, because I think I could answer it very
13 quickly. I heard this, the -- Senator
14 Krueger was right, we were in the room, so we
15 heard the question.
16 The challenge is Pay for Success isn't
17 an OTDA program. Okay? So we will gladly
18 find the answer for you, because it's a
19 legitimate question and you have every right
20 to have an answer to it, but it's not an OTDA
21 program.
22 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Okay. Thank you.
23 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Senate?
24 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
163
1 Senator John Brooks.
2 SENATOR BROOKS: Thank you,
3 Madam Chair.
4 Actually, two of my colleagues touched
5 on a point that I just want to reemphasize.
6 I think the homelessness on the college
7 campuses is far higher than we think and much
8 more dangerous than we think, particularly in
9 those areas where the climate this time of
10 year is not the best.
11 And the other issue on the veterans'
12 housing -- I think, again, that's a hidden
13 problem too. Many of those who are homeless
14 are too proud to step forward. I'm not sure
15 that $5 million is anywheres near enough. I
16 think there are individuals who take steps to
17 try to protect themselves, but if they miss,
18 they're risking their lives in some of the
19 locations they're putting themselves in right
20 now.
21 So I appreciate that we do have a
22 program designed specifically to look at the
23 vets, but I think that too is a bigger
24 problem than we think. And I think -- I was
164
1 in a meeting the other day on the island
2 where a group said, "No, we don't have
3 homeless vets anymore on Long Island."
4 That's not even close to being right.
5 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Of course.
6 SENATOR BROOKS: And I think -- one of
7 the things I worry about sometimes is we're
8 not being as honest with ourselves as we
9 should about the significant number of people
10 who are first homeless -- and then we had an
11 incident over the summer where I was speaking
12 with a group of kids in an educational
13 program, and the teacher told us the one
14 girl -- part of the educational program was
15 current events, and the girl wasn't allowed
16 to watch television at night. So they helped
17 her with the current events.
18 When I talked to them later and we
19 talked about getting food and the rest, it
20 wasn't that she wasn't allowed to watch
21 television. The family had no electricity.
22 Which meant they had no heat, which meant
23 they didn't have hot water, which meant they
24 couldn't keep food.
165
1 So we're in a situation that there's
2 almost grades of homeless. Being in a house
3 that doesn't have electricity or heat is
4 homeless.
5 But I appreciate that you're working
6 on the programs that covered it, so I didn't
7 have a specific question, I just wanted to
8 underscore how significant these problems
9 are.
10 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Senator,
11 thank you very much.
12 I will share with you something --
13 again, for that kind of a scenario where an
14 individual is in a home but has an electrical
15 shutoff, there are programs and emergency
16 services available to assist them to make
17 sure that that does not take place.
18 There is a significant commitment in
19 every district to make sure that the capacity
20 exists to be able to help individuals in that
21 particular condition.
22 The other situation that you were
23 mentioning about homelessness among veterans,
24 I come from a community -- and I remember
166
1 hearing those voices that said, We don't have
2 a homeless problem among our veterans
3 population. And ultimately we built the
4 transitional housing for homeless veterans
5 and we really -- there was a big move to be
6 able to reduce homeless veterans within our
7 community, and it was ragingly successful,
8 especially when you began to tackle things
9 like PTSD and a series of other major issues
10 that happened at that point.
11 SENATOR BROOKS: Yeah. I brought up
12 the young lady only to illustrate the fact
13 that she just accepted that as a way of life,
14 didn't think it was out of the norm.
15 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Sure. I
16 think you're really talking about adverse
17 childhood experiences, you're talking about
18 childhood trauma, you're talking about things
19 that affect people for their life. It's why
20 many of us got into human services in the
21 first place, to be able to make a difference
22 and change people's lives.
23 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you. I
24 believe I'm next, and last for the Senate.
167
1 I'm glad you closed with childhood
2 trauma with Senator Brooks, because we look
3 at the numbers of children who are in the
4 shelter system and we might as well be
5 writing up the reports now on what we're
6 going to need to pay into their adult years
7 because they did have so much childhood
8 trauma, moving from location to location,
9 school to school, et cetera, et cetera.
10 So the Governor said in his -- I
11 believe it was the State of the State speech,
12 not his budget speech, that he was going to
13 do more for homelessness this year than ever.
14 So tell me how we're doing more this year
15 than ever. I know that we have a commitment
16 from 2016 for 20,000 supportive housing beds.
17 We've only gotten to 6,000. Are we doing
18 14,000 this year? How many are we doing?
19 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Again, I will
20 only speak to the commitment as I understand
21 it, and the commitment as I understand it is,
22 again, the $20 billion that is for affordable
23 housing across the board, 6,000 supportive
24 units to be completed in a five-year window
168
1 that ends next year. We should highlight --
2 and then a 15,000 -- excuse me, a 20,000 unit
3 commitment for supportive housing over
4 15 years.
5 And so when it comes to the
6 commitment -- and we should touch base on
7 this -- we're very proud of the work that has
8 happened. We've got an enormous amount of it
9 through HHAP, but obviously others as well in
10 this process. And when it comes to the
11 supportive housing side, we now have
12 4,000-plus units, well on our way to being
13 able to attain and exceed the 6,000
14 supportive housing units.
15 That doesn't mean there isn't even
16 greater need, but that commitment is -- we're
17 very focused on being able to make sure that
18 we attain it and exceed it. And the overall
19 affordable housing number, we are also ahead
20 of schedule.
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: So you also
22 referenced -- and I think in answer to a
23 question, not in your testimony -- that the
24 City of New York, with the largest numbers of
169
1 homeless, is spending too much money in their
2 programs. So can the state do it cheaper,
3 and will you?
4 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: If you're
5 asking if the state will take over Family
6 Assistance and Family Assistance operations,
7 what we are working with with New York City
8 at this point is to be able to amend their
9 homeless services plan and to assist them to
10 be able to speed the process. You're really
11 talking about extremely expensive hotel and
12 motel rooms, and the attempt to be able to
13 reduce the time spent in those units.
14 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: What is the most
15 cost-efficient model for ensuring that people
16 don't continue to flow into our very
17 expensive homeless shelter system with such a
18 long timeline for getting them out of the
19 homeless shelter system?
20 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Sufficient
21 permanent housing.
22 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: What prevents us
23 from getting them into sufficient permanent
24 housing?
170
1 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Enough units.
2 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Enough --
3 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Enough units.
4 And again, we are in a scenario right now,
5 especially in the metro New York area, where
6 that portion of it -- there is, without
7 question, a crisis with that situation.
8 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Do you think it
9 has anything to do with too little rental
10 assistance to afford the units in the
11 locations where people are?
12 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Well, what I
13 would say is this. Very few people are
14 transitioning -- not in total numbers, but
15 I'm talking about percentagewise,
16 transitioning over from PA into the shelter
17 system. Okay? So there are clear strong
18 supports, both state but again extensively
19 from the city as well, to have supports in
20 place to be able to assist people staying in
21 their homes, CITYFEPS and the like.
22 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: So I just want to
23 repeat that. So we don't think -- your data
24 shows people are not ending up in a shelter
171
1 system having been evicted from an apartment
2 they couldn't afford.
3 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: No, we're not
4 saying that at all. What we're saying is
5 that that percentage is significantly less
6 than people who are not coming out of the PA
7 system.
8 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: So where are the
9 people coming from?
10 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Again, I
11 think that we're seeing a whole myriad of
12 reasons for homelessness. In the city,
13 obviously cost of housing. Clearly things
14 like mental health and substance use
15 disorders and a whole host of other
16 challenges, as well as economic factors.
17 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Have you taken a
18 look at the Assemblymember's housing support
19 proposing -- the HSS proposal which would
20 provide an increased rental supplement to
21 keep people in their homes or to move them
22 out of shelters?
23 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: I have.
24 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: What is your
172
1 opinion of that?
2 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Well, again,
3 I think rather than being able to comment
4 specifically on any legislation, I think it's
5 important that we talk -- and again I commend
6 the Assemblymember and everyone else for
7 pushing to have this kind of public policy
8 conversation. We think it's really
9 important.
10 For me, it's more about the
11 conversations about what things should be
12 considered in the conversation and how we
13 move forward. Clearly there's budgetary
14 concerns associated with that, and the
15 finances need to be addressed.
16 There also needs to be -- in my
17 opinion, one of the factors that should be
18 discussed is how we ensure that when we look
19 across the entire state that we're not
20 treating, say, Clinton County the same as we
21 would treat the Bronx or some other portion
22 of the city. We want to make sure that --
23 again, to me, those are two of the -- two key
24 components. I want to make sure that I don't
173
1 make mistakes, and I really appreciate the
2 time.
3 In addition to local variations, there
4 is the cliff conversation that needs to at
5 least be discussed, and how we're going to
6 transition over. I know that there's a
7 component of it that carries out for an
8 additional year. But the real conversation
9 about how we ensure that an individual
10 doesn't find themselves in a situation where
11 the cliff makes them -- in a situation where
12 they're just as bad but a year or two down
13 the road. Okay?
14 We understand the value in the
15 conversation. And I am also very much
16 looking forward to the outcomes of the pilots
17 that have been proposed. I think the pilot
18 in New York City will be a very informative
19 study, specifically tied to, again, the area
20 where we see some of the biggest crisis. But
21 also to be able to see the results of that
22 pilot in Rochester will speak volumes about
23 how upstate cities are dealing with that as
24 well.
174
1 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Because there are
2 such higher costs for housing in New York
3 City --
4 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: No question.
5 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: -- does the state
6 support the City of New York moving people
7 into other counties with lower costs for
8 housing and shelter?
9 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Again, if
10 what we're talking about is the SOTA program
11 that was traditionally run and continues to
12 be run out of the city, we shouldn't lose
13 sight of the fact that that program is funded
14 solely with city dollars and not state
15 dollars.
16 But we do support, if individuals can
17 find access to employment or family members,
18 that people have a right to be able to move.
19 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Okay. Would you
20 support the city being allowed to use money
21 they currently can only use for shelter
22 placement -- which I think is now close to
23 72,000 a year -- would you allow the city to
24 use more of those funds specifically to help
175
1 provide rental housing so that either the
2 family can go into a housing unit sooner or
3 avoid having to leave a housing unit?
4 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: I think it's
5 an area that I'm going to have to take a
6 closer look at. I can't speak to it right
7 now.
8 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: So -- but you
9 will take a look at that.
10 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Absolutely.
11 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Okay. Because
12 we're basically setting up that only the most
13 expensive failed model can be used. So I
14 would really like the state to look at the
15 economics of that.
16 And you are right that not everybody
17 goes into the shelter system from losing a
18 home. The data actually shows a huge
19 percentage, at least of the singles, are
20 released from State DOCCS -- I think about a
21 third of the people going into the singles
22 shelter system.
23 There are other -- and there have been
24 historically MOUs and discharge planning so
176
1 that people leaving mental health
2 institutions, people leaving DOCCS aren't
3 simply dropped off, as it happens, at the
4 30th Street Men's Shelter in my district. We
5 have seen an enormous growth in populations
6 just being dropped off with nothing.
7 What can OTDA do to ensure that DOCCS
8 is not simply busing people into a
9 nonsolution? Which is going to increase
10 their likelihood of ending up right back in
11 DOCCS anyway.
12 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Sure. Again,
13 we all recognize the importance of and the
14 value of proper housing and strategies for
15 release and why that's so important to reduce
16 recidivism and how that can be effective.
17 I've also seen firsthand the
18 30th Street Shelter in full operation and
19 recognize the value that that particular
20 facility provides in the system, and note
21 areas for improvement as well.
22 That said, it is imperative that the
23 state agencies all collaborate. And we work
24 together now, but there always is room for
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1 improvement to be able to make sure that
2 whether it's DOCCS or OTDA or any other
3 different portion, different agencies are
4 collaborating to make sure that we don't find
5 that situation where an individual is dropped
6 off and the chances for success are extremely
7 limited.
8 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Are you operating
9 under any MOUs today? I found some pretty
10 old ones.
11 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: There are
12 some old ones. And we are --
13 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Can you get those
14 to me, please, after the hearing?
15 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Of course.
16 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
17 And again, you heard me when I asked
18 Sheila Poole from OCFS. I would also like to
19 see the same information, because --
20 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: They are
21 working on it as we speak.
22 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Excellent. Thank
23 you very much for your testimony today.
24 I believe the Senate is done,
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1 Assembly.
2 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: So that
3 concludes the questions for you,
4 Commissioner. Thank you so much. And we
5 look forward to some of the follow-ups that
6 you've committed to.
7 OTDA COMMISSIONER HEIN: Thank you
8 very much. And thank you all.
9 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Next we will be
10 hearing from New York State Office for the
11 Aging, Greg Olsen, acting director.
12 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: You guys ready
13 for me?
14 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Feel free to --
15 well, wait one second. People are just --
16 actually, leaving very quietly. So, Greg,
17 you can begin.
18 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: Thank you.
19 Well, good afternoon. It's always a pleasure
20 to be here.
21 Chairpersons Krueger, Weinstein,
22 Chairpersons May, Bronson and all the
23 distinguished members of the Assembly and
24 standing committees, I'm Greg Olsen. I'm the
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1 acting director of the New York State Office
2 for the Aging. And as always, I'm always
3 honored to testify on the portions of
4 Governor Cuomo's proposed budget that affect
5 older New Yorkers.
6 Governor Cuomo's commitment to older
7 New Yorkers is unprecedented, and New York is
8 viewed across the nation as a trailblazer for
9 the work that we're doing to support older
10 adults through the Office for the Aging. Our
11 approach is so much broader than one agency.
12 It's about making New York the healthiest
13 state in the nation through a multi-agency
14 coordinated focused effort on improving
15 physical and behavioral health, implementing
16 preventive healthcare strategies, embedding
17 healthy aging principles into planning,
18 procurement and policies to change the built
19 environment, and much more.
20 Utilizing the state's 2019-2024
21 Prevention Agenda as the umbrella, and
22 instituting a "health across all policies"
23 approach, all New York State agencies are
24 incorporating health considerations into our
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1 planning, our programs, and our initiatives.
2 We have been charged to work together and
3 consider how all of our policies further our
4 efforts as the first age-friendly state in
5 the nation. This approach will have and is
6 having a significant positive impact on
7 New York's older population.
8 Under the Governor's leadership,
9 New York State became the first state in the
10 nation to receive the age-friendly
11 designation by the AARP and the World Health
12 Organization because we ranked high in the
13 eight domains of age-friendly, livable
14 communities. But more importantly, we have a
15 comprehensive plan to systematically build
16 age-friendly and smart growth principles into
17 how government operates and functions. We're
18 truly leading the nation in this
19 collaborative and thoughtful approach.
20 The fiscal year '20-'21 Executive
21 Budget continues its ongoing commitment to
22 older New Yorkers. It includes: The
23 continuation of the historic $15 million
24 targeted investment that was contained in
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1 last year's enacted budget to assist those
2 who are awaiting services in our network.
3 And I want to thank you all for your support
4 of that historic investment.
5 The continuation of $1.5 million to
6 the CSE program that was contained in last
7 year's enacted budget.
8 The continued support for the New York
9 Connects systems reform, which exceeds
10 $20 million annually to help individuals of
11 all ages and payors access long-term services
12 and supports.
13 Maintaining our $500,000 funding
14 stream that draws down an additional
15 $2 million to support our enhanced multi
16 disciplinary teams to combat elder abuse and
17 financial exploitation.
18 Provisions by the Governor to lower
19 prescription drug prices, which will have a
20 significant impact on older adults.
21 And maintaining all core funding
22 levels from last year.
23 The 2021 Executive Budget proposal
24 will continue to help hundreds of thousands
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1 of older New Yorkers maintain their
2 independence, support their loved ones who
3 care for them, reduce future Medicaid costs,
4 and further demonstrate why New York is the
5 first-age friendly state in the nation.
6 The State Office for the Aging and our
7 network does not stop there. We can't stop
8 there. In order to meet emerging goals, we
9 need to do a lot more together, and that's
10 exactly what we do.
11 Through innovative partnerships with
12 foundations, state and community partners,
13 and our own efforts, we are expanding
14 services and testing new delivery models.
15 These include advancing our state
16 age-friendly work via grants to help
17 communities replicate the Governor's signed
18 Executive Order 190 at the county level;
19 bringing new municipalities into AARP's
20 age-friendly network; standing up, first in
21 the country, five Age-Friendly Regional
22 Technical Assistance Centers that are being
23 led by the New York Academy of Medicine and
24 creating a learning collaborative to assure
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1 the success of our grantees in the short-term
2 and then an expansion, hopefully, in the
3 long-term.
4 Implementing our private-pay program
5 as a result of receiving the statutory
6 authority in last year's enacted budget --
7 again, I thank you for that support. Working
8 with the PPS systems and health plans and
9 providers around the state to purchase
10 services from our network that address the
11 social determinants of health. Significantly
12 expanding our state certification and
13 skills-based trainings for staff who deliver
14 services across the state. Expanding our
15 partnership with the Office of Temporary and
16 Disability Assistance to provide targeted
17 nutrition counseling and nutrition education
18 in low-income targeted areas across the
19 state.
20 Working with the Village to Village
21 network and the Albany Guardian Society to
22 seed local village movements that organize
23 neighbors to help neighbors, and stood up the
24 first-in-the-nation regional Village to
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1 Village Technical Assistance Center right
2 here in the Capital District.
3 Participating in a statewide
4 collaborative to educate the public on the
5 devastating impacts of sepsis. Reducing
6 social isolation via the use of animatronic
7 pets. Working with the New York State
8 Council on the Arts to bring arts and arts
9 education to senior centers and libraries in
10 three regions of the state, which will help
11 improve health, reduce social isolation,
12 improve cognitive functioning, and support
13 professional artists.
14 Working to better understand the
15 fiscal impact that caregiving has on the
16 public and private workforce as well as the
17 healthcare costs for those caregivers in the
18 work environment. And working with the DDPC,
19 the Developmental Disabilities Planning
20 Council, to provide training and education
21 resources that will help us better serve
22 individuals with disabilities who are
23 entering our service infrastructure.
24 So we'll continue to engage all the
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1 state agencies, our private partners,
2 not-for-profits and other community-based
3 organizations to serve New York's older
4 population as effectively as we can.
5 As always, always appreciative to be
6 here, and I'm happy to take any questions
7 that you may have.
8 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
9 So we go to Assemblyman Bronson, chair
10 of our Aging Committee.
11 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: Thank you,
12 Chairperson Weinstein.
13 Acting Director Olsen, thanks for
14 being here.
15 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: My pleasure.
16 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: It's always a
17 pleasure working with you. And I do want to
18 credit the Governor and your office for your
19 commitment to older New Yorkers and the type
20 of work that we've been able to do.
21 The $15 million increase in
22 community-based services last year was huge.
23 And I -- my first question is actually about
24 that. And, you know, we were trying to
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1 address the waitlist. At your request, we
2 offered some flexibility in how those funds
3 were distributed county by county.
4 So my question is twofold. First,
5 were all counties able to participate? And
6 if not, which ones didn't and what was the
7 reason for that? And then, second, if you
8 have an estimate of the number of people on
9 the waitlist that we were able to provide
10 services to.
11 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: Sure. Thank
12 you, Assemblyman, and Senator May. You know,
13 you guys came in last year, and that was
14 really a historic investment we hadn't seen
15 in over 20 years.
16 I think what was key about that
17 proposal -- which you all supported -- was
18 that flexibility in bypassing our traditional
19 funding formula. That's how dollars go out
20 the door. It's based on the percentage of
21 people over the age of 60 by county gets a
22 certain percent of the dollars. And that
23 model works effectively well for a lot of our
24 programs.
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1 But you know, as you mentioned, what's
2 reported back to us in terms of unmet needs
3 doesn't necessarily follow the traditional
4 formula. So what we were able to negotiate
5 with you all last year was the ability to
6 bypass that, get resources directly to the
7 communities that reported back. Hence, the
8 $15 million.
9 So out of the 59 county-based area
10 agencies on aging that are part of our
11 network, 50 of them reported unmet need. And
12 so those resources were directed towards
13 those communities.
14 For some of the nine who did not
15 report, I don't necessarily view that as
16 something that they didn't do right. What
17 that says to me is that with their federal,
18 state and local resources, the contributions
19 that they may get from the residents who are
20 receiving service, their own fundraising,
21 that they're able to meet the current need.
22 That's a success story.
23 I will tell you that a few of the
24 counties who did not report unmet need --
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1 which we've been receiving information for
2 quite a long time in terms of what that looks
3 like -- did have middle-of-the-year issues,
4 and we were able to redirect some resources
5 to them.
6 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: Okay. And thank
7 you for that work. It's really important for
8 our older New Yorkers and their families.
9 What happens if someone is on a
10 wait -- well, let me back up. First of all,
11 you know, I have information to suggest that
12 there's significantly increased numbers of
13 waitlists, upwards of 9,700. And, you know,
14 we need to quantify that and get a real
15 number. But when someone is on a waitlist,
16 what happens to them? If they're not getting
17 those services they need to age at home, what
18 happens to them?
19 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: So there's a
20 lot of different things that could
21 potentially happen. So we have a policy that
22 we put in place in 2014 that targets people
23 who may be awaiting services that, if through
24 their own resources or through a family
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1 member or friends, can private-pay while
2 they're working their way up that service
3 category.
4 What we look at first, though, is the
5 acuity level of the need. And so individuals
6 who are not receiving services due to
7 adequate funding are prioritized based on
8 some factors, right, their income level,
9 geography, their functional limitations. And
10 so, you know, they would receive a priority
11 over other people who may not be receiving
12 services.
13 But because you may not be receiving
14 services through us doesn't mean that there's
15 not an effort underway by the area agencies
16 and the community-based partners to connect
17 them with other community resources. So I
18 say that because we're not the only game in
19 town. We're an important conduit to really
20 look holistically and person-centered at an
21 individual and what they may or may not need.
22 But there are a variety of other entities at
23 the local level from town and municipality
24 programs, CAP agencies, you know, the
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1 United Way, those types of things that offer
2 similar types of services that we can connect
3 to.
4 Some are case-managed while they're
5 awaiting services. We can look at things
6 like are they receiving SNAP benefits, try to
7 hook them up with SNAP and HEAP and
8 low-income subsidy to put money back in their
9 pockets to get connected to services.
10 So it's not like they just languish
11 while they're waiting. The area agencies are
12 very adept at capitalizing and leveraging
13 their community resources, because that
14 really is how the network is structured.
15 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: Yeah, I
16 appreciate that. And the network is very
17 good, it's important to do those evaluations,
18 those assessments, and try to get to the
19 high-needs people as quickly as possible.
20 But if we don't get them the
21 community-based needs, you know, they -- some
22 go into, you know, nursing homes, others go
23 into other forms of managed long-term care.
24 And those costs are astronomical. And the
191
1 state is currently facing a Medicaid issue.
2 Yet we have services to keep people at home,
3 where the annual cost is around, you know,
4 $6,000, $6,300 -- yet the cost of a nursing
5 home is $150,000 annually.
6 You know, we don't have to discuss
7 this in detail, but I think through budget
8 negotiations what I'd like your office to be
9 involved in, as we look at the Medicaid
10 Redesign Team No. 2 and the parameters that
11 are set out there, if we could also ask
12 them -- and with your assistance -- to look
13 at if we invest more in keeping people at
14 home, can we save money on the Medicaid side
15 of the equation?
16 And with that -- $15 million last
17 year -- I'd be willing to advocate for more
18 money for those services so that we can save
19 that money at the Medicaid end.
20 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: Yeah, and I
21 think what you just recognized and have
22 recognized, with the support of the
23 investment last year, is similar to what the
24 Governor and the Health Department
192
1 recognized. You know, would $15 million come
2 out of the global Medicaid cap. I'm sure
3 that -- you know, going back to Senator
4 Krueger's -- the model, what's an effective
5 model that might be less expensive, you know,
6 I think that this will be talked about
7 through budget negotiations. You know, our
8 network is able to intervene a lot earlier
9 than the medical model, and that's by design.
10 And we should have a system like that that
11 focuses attention on the front end in the
12 community, waiting -- you know, not waiting
13 for people to devolve to a point where you
14 need those higher levels of care.
15 So I think that $15 million investment
16 came from exactly those facts, that we can
17 target people who are at imminent risk of
18 Medicaid and spend-down, and help serve them
19 and their families in their homes and
20 communities for quite some time. Hence, the
21 investment.
22 So I'm hopeful that this will be a
23 conversation that will play itself out during
24 negotiations.
193
1 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: I am also
2 hopeful.
3 I've had conversations with you
4 recently, along with your staff, in
5 connection with nursing home transfers and
6 evictions, and its relationship to the Long
7 Term Care Ombudsman Program. The Comptroller
8 had issued a report toward the end of last
9 year about these types of transfers and, you
10 know, what we could be doing to prevent this
11 disruption to folks who are in these
12 facilities and make sure that they're getting
13 the notice that they're required under
14 federal law and things of that nature.
15 Can you expand on this a little bit?
16 What's happening with our Long Term Care
17 Ombudsman Program and its effectiveness, and
18 how could we be more effective?
19 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: Yeah, that's a
20 great question.
21 So the program on its whole -- we
22 could talk a little bit about that for a
23 second. You know, we regionalized a couple
24 of years ago for economies of scale. We had
194
1 several programs that were very, very small.
2 It's difficult to run a county program, you
3 know, when you're receiving $15,000,
4 especially to complete the functions that the
5 program provides.
6 And so what it does is really the
7 quality control eyes and ears in facilities
8 to help individuals make sure that their
9 rights are maintained and that they're
10 receiving quality of care.
11 The eviction issue has been one that
12 we've been working with the Health Department
13 on to develop a process in order to, first,
14 make sure that people know what their rights
15 are in terms of the eviction, and then how to
16 go through an appeals process. I'd be happy
17 to share, you know, what that process is in
18 writing with you, but that's something that
19 we are working on.
20 In terms of the ombudsman program
21 itself, you know, it's a challenge. We have
22 a fairly large cadre of staff around the
23 state, 35 full-time, 10 part-time, a little
24 over 400 volunteers. So I think what we're
195
1 seeing both within LTCOP and within our
2 Health Information Counseling Assistance
3 Program, and probably elsewhere in other
4 systems, is the face of the volunteer is
5 changing.
6 You know, these types of programs
7 require a four-day intensive certification in
8 order to become an ombudsman. The task is
9 pretty intense, and you've got to give a lot
10 of credit to these folks that are putting in
11 20 hours a week. But the bottom line is that
12 the face of volunteers are changing. People
13 are spending less time doing the day-to-day
14 volunteering and more, you know, the weekend
15 warrior type of thing once or twice a year,
16 which is perfectly fine. But it certainly
17 has an impact on the programs and services
18 that we provide.
19 So we've tested a couple of things
20 over the last year, and I think I mentioned
21 this in last year's hearing. You know, we
22 looked at implementing a $75 a month stipend
23 in the LTCOP program in four regions to see
24 if that would have an impact on retention,
196
1 training, and the amount of work that you
2 would get out by providing a small stipend.
3 And it's been very, very successful. So
4 that's something we're looking to potentially
5 expand a little bit more, which would help us
6 with the workload, which makes us able to go
7 to more places and do the same thing with the
8 HICAP program.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: Okay. So,
10 again, I'd like to continue to work with you
11 regarding, you know, methodologies that we
12 can better recruit and retain volunteers as
13 well as paid folks in this area. And I'll
14 defer and ask you questions on my second
15 round.
16 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: Okay, thank
17 you.
18 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
19 Senate?
20 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Aging Chair
21 Senator Rachel May.
22 SENATOR MAY: Thank you. Thank you.
23 And thank you, Commissioner. It's
24 been a pleasure working with you over the
197
1 last year.
2 Let me help out my colleague here,
3 because I was going to ask about the ombuds
4 program as well. Have you considered a
5 travel allowance for the volunteers? Because
6 certainly in our part of the state they have
7 to go long distances often.
8 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: Yeah, many of
9 them have that -- have an allowance built in,
10 so that that type of thing should not be on
11 the backs of the volunteers.
12 What I like about the -- you know,
13 what I like about the stipend idea is it's a
14 low-budget, high-yield impact. It recognizes
15 the value that these folks bring to the table
16 every single day. It's something that's
17 pretty complicated and not always positive if
18 you're seeing, you know, things that you
19 don't want to be seeing in some of these
20 facilities.
21 And, you know, I think that on the
22 receiving side from the volunteer, in
23 addition to all the other recognition things
24 that the program does -- and the support that
198
1 we try to provide in various other areas
2 really is monumental in terms of them feeling
3 valued for the time commitment that they put
4 into this.
5 So we're certainly not averse to any
6 of those types of incentives that are going
7 to help not only, again, recruit people, but
8 make sure once they're in and feel that it's
9 a volunteer experience that's important to
10 them, that we hang onto them.
11 SENATOR MAY: Okay, great.
12 So let me go back to these issues
13 about keeping people in their homes and out
14 of nursing homes. And the first question is,
15 in the MRT process do you anticipate having a
16 voice in what gets decided? And do you think
17 that community-based programs that serve the
18 elderly will have any kind of input into that
19 process?
20 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: You know, I do
21 think we will be -- always are and will be
22 interacting with our Health Department
23 colleagues. And I think that Dr. Zucker and
24 Donna Frescatore mentioned that yesterday.
199
1 I think because -- the way that we
2 kind of view our role in concert with the
3 Health Department is that we do have a
4 continuum of care. We're the front end of
5 that. We are pre-Medicaid. We're trying to
6 keep people out of the emergency room. You
7 need a strong community-based network to be
8 discharged safely back to the community.
9 So there's always going to be a
10 positive interaction between those two
11 things. I don't think it should be lost on
12 any of us that that investment we got last
13 year came from the Health Department's budget
14 because they recognized that we are able to
15 target certain individuals that eventually
16 could wind their way into the Medicaid
17 program, that we can do it for very, very low
18 cost, hence what the investment is.
19 So I feel confident moving forward
20 that some of the things that our network may
21 be able to offer will be part of that
22 conversation.
23 SENATOR MAY: Thank you. So that
24 $15 million investment last year was
200
1 predicated on a savings of about $34 million
2 from Medicaid in keeping people out of
3 nursing homes. Have you run the numbers?
4 Are you seeing that kind of savings, or is it
5 too early to tell?
6 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: Well, I think,
7 you know, what we did do is we were able to
8 tag future Medicaid savings. Because if
9 you're receiving services in our network, you
10 are not receiving services somewhere else.
11 So, you know, we began the process
12 with some assumptions based on some feedback
13 from the area agencies that reported what
14 happens to people if they're awaiting
15 services and not getting them. I think what
16 we have a little more definitively at this
17 point -- I think our reporting requirement
18 that we had agreed to in the budget last year
19 is September, so I'll know a lot more by
20 then.
21 But I can tell you this. I asked 10
22 of the counties fairly recently to go through
23 some of their client data of folks who were
24 awaiting services when they reported it back
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1 in the '17-'18 cycle, which predated the
2 $15 million, to the time that we were able to
3 release the money based on the enacted
4 budget, what happened to those folks. And so
5 they went through 2200 individual case files,
6 which is a monumental labor-intensive
7 process, and I appreciated that they did
8 that.
9 And I think Assemblyman Bronson hit it
10 on the nose. Those numbers are similar to
11 what we found: 10 percent went directly from
12 awaiting services into a nursing home. So
13 that would have had a cost. Because, again,
14 the clients that we're serving are
15 traditionally 83-year-old females who live
16 alone, are low-income, have four or more
17 chronic conditions, and have three needs
18 in -- you know, functional needs in a variety
19 of different areas. So they're pretty much
20 at risk.
21 So again, I think that the investment
22 speaks for itself.
23 SENATOR MAY: Thank you.
24 So like Assemblyman Bronson, I -- it
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1 makes me wonder why we don't just multiply
2 the investment by 10 and reap, you know, that
3 much more in terms of the savings.
4 So I'm interested in a few things
5 where I feel like we're kind of
6 nickel-and-diming our home care system.
7 There's not a COLA in there again. We are
8 deferring the cost-of-living adjustment yet
9 again, which makes it harder to find people
10 to do the work of home care.
11 I didn't see if there was an increase
12 in funding for NORCs, but that's a way that
13 we support -- a pretty low-cost way of
14 supporting seniors in their homes. The
15 affordable senior housing service
16 coordinators are -- what I'm told is they
17 save about $4,000 per person per
18 hospitalization, helping them, you know,
19 coordinate everything more easily. The
20 Senior Companion Program that we have out in
21 Onondaga County, where seniors are going and
22 just visiting with isolated seniors, and it's
23 great for both the volunteers and the people
24 receiving those services. Data systems for
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1 senior centers to connect with hospitals for
2 discharge planning so people aren't missing
3 meals, home-delivered meals or that kind of
4 thing.
5 So tell me about all of these areas:
6 Is there room for further investment in these
7 in order to save a lot of money on the
8 Medicaid side of things?
9 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: Yeah, and I
10 think you mentioned a lot of very important
11 programs that are part of a much bigger
12 coordinated system. And that's why, again,
13 you know, when we're going through the
14 private-pay protocols -- and what we want to
15 do to try to get people to the front door of
16 the Office for the Aging. And they're not
17 looking at one particular program, they're
18 looking holistically. It's a person-centered
19 approach looking at the individual and what
20 do they need, what are their strengths, what
21 other things can we leverage.
22 So I think that those things are very
23 important. It's very difficult at times to
24 get people to accept services, but that's the
204
1 culture that we live in. And our job is to
2 make sure that we're out there in the
3 communities letting people know that there
4 are a variety of things they may be eligible
5 for that they're not receiving that we can
6 help them with.
7 I think what's the most promising
8 thing -- and, you know, now being in this
9 network for 27 years, what's happened over
10 the last couple of years, at least where
11 aging is concerned, to me is very exciting:
12 The focus on value-based payments, shared
13 savings with Medicare, with Medicare allowing
14 services to be paid for that address the
15 social determinants of health -- all of those
16 things that we do very well in our network.
17 And so we've had some very, very
18 productive conversations lately with Emblem,
19 with Excellus, with the Albany PPS, with the
20 Adirondack Health Institute, that are looking
21 for ways not to recreate the wheel. And
22 that's where we fit in.
23 We've got a network that's been around
24 for 50 years that has, again, 59 offices for
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1 the aging, 1200 community-based contractors
2 that provide a variety of services that you
3 just talked about, as well as, you know,
4 800 congregate sites, 2400 home-delivered-
5 meal routes. There's a lot that we can be
6 doing in looking to diversify our funding,
7 whether it be through private pay, Medicare
8 contracts, others, to significantly expand
9 service to do exactly the kinds of things
10 that you and Assemblyman Bronson have
11 mentioned.
12 SENATOR MAY: Thank you.
13 And then the last thing is to talk
14 about what's my top priority legislatively,
15 and I believe Assemblyman Bronson's as well,
16 which is the Family Caregiver Tax Credit.
17 Which is partly just a recognition of all the
18 work that families do, but it's also intended
19 to make it easier for more families to do
20 that kind of care and plug the gap in terms
21 of the lack of the home healthcare workforce,
22 and also to help people stay in their homes
23 so they're not going into nursing homes.
24 So if that didn't make it into the
206
1 budget, is that something that you're willing
2 to advocate for? We feel that that's very
3 important. AARP does. It's potentially a
4 really valuable thing in terms of return on
5 investment, I believe.
6 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: Yeah, and
7 there's been a lot of conversations about the
8 tax credit. So I'm sure again, as we move
9 forward, that will -- that's not going to be
10 the last time it comes up.
11 I can tell you, one of the things I'm
12 proudest about in the state is the caregiver
13 investments that have not only been made in
14 our agency, but also in the Health
15 Department. I think one of the most exciting
16 things what we're working on currently --
17 I'll just quickly share with you -- is I
18 think we get a lot bigger bang for the buck
19 when we can show what the impact of
20 caregiving is to the economic bottom line.
21 So we are working now with AARP
22 nationally, AARP New York State, Emblem, the
23 New York State Health Department and Excellus
24 to do a really comprehensive study of the
207
1 impact of caregiving on state employees,
2 county employees, and then maybe the
3 20 biggest businesses in New York State. We
4 have the ability through some health
5 insurers, Emblem and Excellus, to look at
6 claims data. What's the impact on
7 healthcare, healthcare spending of
8 caregivers? What does it cost businesses in
9 terms of turnover, lost productivity? We
10 know the wage reductions for women, which is
11 a huge problem.
12 So I think that, you know,
13 collectively the impetus behind getting data
14 like that is really going to be an
15 eye-opener, not only at the state level and
16 the county level, but also through private
17 businesses, where then we can be working
18 together to provide strategies that not only
19 help identify who caregivers are, because
20 that's the number-one problem, but also
21 connect them to the myriad of services that
22 we have in New York State. We have over
23 76,000 respite and caregiver programs at the
24 community level that people, you know, use
208
1 but may not know about, because a lot of this
2 is crisis-driven, as you know.
3 SENATOR MAY: Great. Thank you. Is
4 there a date for when that report will be
5 coming?
6 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: It's going to
7 be this year. I mean, we are moving quickly
8 and there's a lot of excitement. It's going
9 to be not only a great assist to New York
10 State, but it will become a national model to
11 really hone in on this at the state level
12 everywhere, because it matters, as you know,.
13 SENATOR MAY: Great. Thank you.
14 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
15 We go to Assemblywoman Wright.
16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WRIGHT: Good afternoon.
17 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: Hi.
18 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WRIGHT: Hi. I do want
19 to first acknowledge that there are some very
20 good outcomes in my community related to the
21 age-friendly program, and we recently
22 designated a NORC, and so we're able to
23 further support our aging community with
24 those things.
209
1 However, I am finding and hearing and
2 getting complaints in my office that the
3 problem really centers upon -- elder abuse is
4 really centered upon the abuses that exist
5 because those who we believe are supposed to
6 be helping our elders have too many gaps in
7 the systems and regulations that govern their
8 operations and allow abuse to occur.
9 So I do want to ask, first, how much
10 influence, oversight, do you have on adult
11 day care centers?
12 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: You want me
13 to --
14 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WRIGHT: Yeah.
15 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: Okay. Sure.
16 So there -- I'm going to answer that
17 two ways, because there's two different
18 oversight entities. There are the social
19 adult day centers that we operate directly,
20 so we contract with directly. We have 13 of
21 those. And so those are required to, you
22 know, meet the state standards, which are
23 actually in our regulations.
24 The area agencies on aging themselves
210
1 operate or contract with another 83 social
2 adult day -- same thing, they're mandated to
3 be monitored annually, we have monitoring
4 tools, et cetera.
5 Then there are those that are
6 receiving Medicaid funds. That's under the
7 jurisdiction of the Health Department and
8 their Managed Long Term Care contracts, and
9 they are required to be certified through
10 OMIG. So there are about 330 of them in
11 New York City that would fall into the Health
12 Department MLTC oversight.
13 Our role in that is to make sure that
14 the plans that the SADC programs that we
15 don't oversee directly, that everybody
16 understands what the regs are, the types of
17 things that they're supposed to do in
18 monitoring. We've provided some tools, some
19 self-monitoring tools. They all have to --
20 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WRIGHT: May I ask, do
21 you monitor what type of information they're
22 allowed to collect regarding the people who
23 attend the facility and what they're able to
24 do with the information that they collect?
211
1 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: So I can only
2 speak to the little over a hundred that we
3 touch directly. The ones that are, excuse
4 me, touched by the -- overseen by the Health
5 Department, the MLTC plans, I can't speak to
6 that.
7 But we certainly do have, you know,
8 HIPAA and a public -- we definitely have
9 requirements in terms of not sharing public
10 health information or personal information.
11 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WRIGHT: Not health
12 information, just total information that
13 they're able to collect and what they're able
14 to do with that information.
15 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: Let me look at
16 the regs. I don't think that there is
17 something that our programs are particularly
18 sharing with anybody. But let me -- I want
19 to make sure I answer that correctly.
20 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WRIGHT: Okay. And I'm
21 imagining the local departments of aging and
22 protective services for the aging or elderly
23 in the municipalities, you have -- do you
24 have oversight or is it just partnership?
212
1 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: Yeah, so the
2 area agencies -- so in this regard, DFTA, New
3 York City Department for the Aging, again, if
4 they're contracting with social adult day
5 programs -- which they are -- using the
6 funding that we have, then they're required
7 to follow the same monitoring schedule that
8 we require of ours. And they do do that.
9 And as you know, that DFTA is also --
10 runs a social adult day ombudsman program
11 where they field complaints from all the SADC
12 programs.
13 Of course if they're theirs, they
14 would go out and do that monitoring
15 themselves. If they're not, and they're
16 attached to a Medicare dollar, those
17 complaints go to my office, they go to the
18 Health Department, and they go to the Office
19 of Medicaid Inspector General, where then
20 they will look into and make the appropriate
21 actions or correct the action plan.
22 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WRIGHT: And then I
23 guess the last thing I want to leave -- I
24 think it's more of a statement than a
213
1 question -- is that what I'm finding are
2 those that are supposed to be protecting our
3 older community are actually working to
4 undermine the world that those people have
5 created for themselves when they become
6 vulnerable or in need of assistance. Instead
7 of fortifying the connections that they've
8 built around them, they work very diligently
9 to pull them apart.
10 I'm finding that we have too much
11 attention and strong-handed responses when
12 the alleged victim of abuse is single, a
13 woman, and childless. I have a case that has
14 come to my office where after nine months
15 of -- one, they broke down the door to get
16 in. Then they put it -- it was in the court
17 case. After nine months of adjournments, the
18 first time my office misses an opportunity to
19 show up in that courtroom, they make a
20 decision that she's incapacitated. Within
21 two months, she's in a nursing home, although
22 she's been living independently all before
23 this. And during the nine months that
24 they've been involved, she did not have
214
1 anyone bring even food to her home. She's
2 two months into the nursing home, and then
3 within a month after that, both of her homes
4 are up for sale and guardians are being paid.
5 I think your office needs to pay
6 attention to what's going on in New York
7 City, because it's a problem.
8 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: Yeah, and I
9 know you were making a statement; I think
10 that's a great statement. There's a lot of
11 work that our agency does, not only in
12 coordinating and administering the state's
13 enhanced multidisciplinary team, but working
14 with the city Elder Abuse Coalition and
15 others -- but again, others across the state.
16 Look, we are in a culture now where a
17 lot of people have no idea who's living next
18 door to them. You know, people don't talk to
19 their neighbors anymore. I know that the
20 Governor had proposed some additional
21 measures to combat financial exploitation
22 within the budget this year. There are a lot
23 of touch points that, regardless of how
24 isolated the older person is, they're going
215
1 to see somebody, whether it be a physician or
2 it be in the ER.
3 We're doing a lot of work in terms of
4 trying to make sure that those different
5 touch points can understand what the signs
6 and symptoms are of physical and other types
7 of elder abuse, but also on the financial
8 part.
9 So what I would love to do is, you
10 know, follow up with you on all the things
11 that we are doing. And if there's things
12 that we're not doing, to have you advise us
13 on that would be very helpful.
14 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WRIGHT: Thank you.
15 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
16 Senate?
17 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
18 So hi.
19 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: How are you,
20 Senator?
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Fine, thank you.
22 So I'm always amazed with how small
23 your agency is, given that the population of
24 New York State trends to older and older.
216
1 That's going to be a discussion for another
2 day.
3 It's a huge population over a 30-year
4 age framework. So there are issues for the
5 frail elderly and those who need home care.
6 I'm going to say -- and nursing home
7 questions. The number-one issues that come
8 to my district office for older New Yorkers
9 are discrimination -- discrimination pushing
10 them out of the workforce when they hit a
11 certain age, discrimination in refusing to
12 consider them for hiring, even though one of
13 the realities of living much longer than
14 everyone estimated is that they need more
15 money because they're living longer. And yet
16 they can't go back to work because there
17 seems to be a consistent pattern of
18 discrimination against seniors when they try
19 to get jobs.
20 Discrimination of even -- I always
21 find this is interesting. Medicare is the
22 healthcare program for seniors. At least in
23 my district -- and we're doing a survey, and
24 I'm wondering whether your agency might
217
1 consider taking on a similar survey --
2 doctors don't want to take Medicare patients.
3 UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER: Mm-hmm.
4 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: I heard that
5 "uh-huh." Well, yup, it's not just me. So
6 we need to do something about that. I know
7 Medicare is a federal law. But a couple of
8 things.
9 One, if they're not taking seniors,
10 somehow we're both flunking the test. And
11 two, just FYI, if you can't get services
12 through Medicare and you're a lower-income
13 senior, you're going to line up to get
14 Medicaid, and that was yesterday's
15 conversation, that we have too many people on
16 Medicaid and it's an issue for our budget.
17 So we need to make sure that we as the State
18 of New York are maximizing the ability for
19 our older New Yorkers to actually draw down
20 correctly on Medicare services.
21 But if everybody is confirming what I
22 thought -- I was starting to think, oh, it's
23 only me in my district, that nobody wants to
24 take on Medicare patients -- I just think
218
1 this is huge.
2 So, one, I ask you to look into and
3 perhaps do surveys, because that's what we're
4 doing, about -- you know, we actually just go
5 through the medical referral lists and find
6 out -- because you can do it by computer --
7 how many are taking Medicare for new
8 patients. And you find there's nobody. Or
9 in Manhattan, you can find seven. Seven.
10 That's not the exact number, but that small.
11 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: Yeah, that's
12 crazy, right.
13 (Cellphone sound.)
14 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: That's crazy.
15 So I really think we have to do
16 something about this. And we have to do a
17 lot more to ensure that we put systems in
18 place that are making sure -- I don't know
19 who's ringing --
20 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: I just want to
21 make sure it's not me --
22 (Laughter.)
23 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: It's not me.
24 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Somebody's mic
219
1 and phone are on.
2 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: -- that this
3 growth of discrimination in employment as
4 well. And I'm wondering whether you have
5 seen anything or been able to do anything
6 about that.
7 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: Yeah, so on
8 your second point, you know, you'll be
9 hearing from the Association on Aging in
10 New York State. That might be something in
11 terms of the physician networks, and that's
12 something we could potentially work on
13 together. I think that's really important,
14 and I agree.
15 You know, the discrimination side,
16 Senator, I feel exactly the same way you do.
17 And I think if you look at the kinds of
18 things that our agency has been talking about
19 for the last seven years or so, is really to
20 try to combat ageism stereotypes and the
21 discrimination. And we do that a number of
22 different ways.
23 I mean, we all -- we know how we grow
24 up in this country, we know how the media
220
1 portrays older people. We know how cartoons
2 do it, to start it with our kids. People are
3 scared to get older. It's an age -- you
4 know, young-age type of environment that we
5 live in.
6 But I think when you start to
7 aggregate the facts of what older adults mean
8 to their families, to their communities --
9 the biggest bloc of entrepreneurs, biggest
10 givers to philanthropy, largest volunteer
11 group, hold 83 percent of the nation's
12 wealth, support 90 million jobs, are
13 43 percent of the federal tax base, same at
14 the state and local level, in New York State
15 represent 63 percent of all the personal
16 income generated, and the thousand of years
17 of work life and voluntary experience that
18 you have -- you know, we're in competition
19 with other states because they recognize the
20 value of this population, have built it into
21 their economic development, you know, talking
22 points as ways to get older adults from the
23 Northeast to move out of New York and go
24 there.
221
1 Hence the whole effort around
2 age-friendly. I mean, for us that's a
3 couple -- there's two reasons to do that.
4 One is to try to stop people from going to
5 New Jersey, Connecticut, Florida. And the
6 other is to make New York State the type of
7 community that people want to move to.
8 So we are currently working on a
9 campaign to do a little bit more on the media
10 side in terms of ageism and discrimination.
11 And Assemblyman Bronson and I have talked as
12 recently as Tuesday on looking at some ways
13 we can address the workforce, have an
14 age-friendly workforce. You know, dispel
15 some of those myths that they cost more in
16 health insurance -- they don't. That they
17 won't learn computers -- they will. That
18 they're not reliable -- yes, they are. And
19 so I think collectively we all have a role to
20 do that, and that's really the basis of what
21 an age-friendly state does. It tells the
22 truth, it raises these issues and tries to
23 solve them.
24 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
222
1 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Assemblyman
2 Bronson.
3 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: Thank you.
4 So let's follow up on older
5 New Yorkers in the workplace. And as you
6 just indicated, we've had conversations about
7 this this week, actually.
8 And as an employment lawyer by trade,
9 I'm well aware of the discrimination that
10 happens on the basis of age as well as other
11 factors, and so education and awareness is
12 definitely an element to this.
13 But I think we also need to think
14 creatively. As we're looking at what we do
15 with the gig economy in this budget, as we
16 look at what we do with paid sick leave in
17 this budget, as we reflect on what we've done
18 with paid family leave in this budget -- in
19 the prior years, I think we need to
20 creatively look at some certainty in
21 scheduling for our older workers at the same
22 time as we look at flexibility to allow them
23 to meet the other needs in their lives. And
24 a recognition that some are in the workplace
223
1 still because they want to continue to
2 contribute and they want to do it in that
3 way, versus maybe volunteerism; some are in
4 the workplace -- and unfortunately, more and
5 more -- because they can't make ends meet.
6 And especially with that population, we owe
7 it to them to find ways for them to continue
8 to work in a flexible environment that allows
9 them to do that.
10 So, you know, the discriminatory piece
11 of it, we can work on that. The educational
12 piece of it we have to work on. And what you
13 pointed out, what our older New Yorkers
14 contribute to our economy is enormous, and we
15 need to build on that.
16 So you don't really need to answer the
17 question -- it's not really a question -- I
18 just want to make sure -- and I know I have a
19 commitment from you, because we talked about
20 it before. In this budget cycle there are a
21 number of policy decisions we're going to be
22 making that I think have an impact on our
23 older New Yorkers who are still in the
24 workplace or want to be in the workplace or
224
1 are transferring in the workplace. And so we
2 owe it to them and we owe it to all
3 New Yorkers to see what we can do in that
4 regard.
5 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: Yeah, and I
6 think that, you know, given your background,
7 that is something that I'm absolutely
8 interested in working on, because I couldn't
9 agree with you more.
10 And, you know, the proportion of older
11 people in the workplace compared to the
12 younger population is only going to grow.
13 And so as you mentioned, there's a variety of
14 different reasons, there's a variety of
15 flexible things that have been tried. And so
16 we would be absolutely honored to work with
17 you on that.
18 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: My family, like
19 many families in New York, are -- we found
20 ourselves in the situation of the highest
21 number of people you serve, and that is my
22 mom, in her early eighties, a woman alone at
23 home who had 24/7 medical needs. Not because
24 she couldn't function, but because she could
225
1 have a medical episode that she couldn't
2 respond to, and that could have been
3 life-threatening.
4 She wanted to age at home. She wanted
5 to stay at home to the end. We worked
6 with -- we have the luxury of a huge labor
7 pool. I have 11 brothers and sisters. So we
8 had that fortunate labor pool to be family
9 caregivers. We also self-paid and we also
10 relied on insurance and other mechanisms for
11 home care.
12 So I reiterate Senator May's, my
13 number-one priority when it comes to the
14 Aging Committee is the Caregiver Tax Credit.
15 We are capping it so we know the dollar
16 certainty. We're limiting it so that it's
17 verifiable, eligible costs, so we know what
18 we're going to offset costs for for our
19 families.
20 But we also have to address the home
21 care workers. And you had talked about
22 collaborating with other agencies in other
23 ways. I would ask that you collaborate --
24 when we're looking at home care workers, we
226
1 need to develop this workforce, recruit,
2 retain and train workers. But it has to be
3 the medical healthcare, and it has to be the
4 healthcare workers that help our aging.
5 So what strategies would you use so
6 that we move forward in a unified way to
7 address all home care workers so that we're
8 building that workforce?
9 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: Yeah, I mean
10 it's a huge issue. Obviously it is for
11 Medicaid, and you heard about that yesterday.
12 And, you know, for our in-home program, it is
13 for us as well. It's the fastest-growing-
14 need labor pool of every sector in the
15 country. You know, people are living longer.
16 That's a great thing. I mean, if you're born
17 today, you have a 50 percent chance of living
18 to a hundred. I'm not sure if we're supposed
19 to, but we are. Right?
20 So, you know, this -- there's a couple
21 of different things. So the Governor, you
22 know, recognizes the workforce issue, not
23 only in this but in other areas. And there
24 are internal workgroups having some of those
227
1 conversations to see how we can address them.
2 I think we had a couple of pretty
3 innovative models that came out of the --
4 some of the areas that had a shortage with
5 the $15 million investment. One is one of
6 our counties -- and it was an old practice,
7 years ago, that counties could hire their
8 workers directly, and many of them got out of
9 the business because the admin costs were
10 pretty expensive. But one of our counties
11 got back into the business. So you can
12 assure that, you know, the workers are there
13 to meet the need.
14 We had one county that had a
15 commitment and an arrangement with a local
16 home care agency to have seven aides,
17 full-time, assigned to the Office for the
18 Aging, which is really great.
19 What I really like about the model is
20 that the aides come to the office every
21 morning and are part of a care team. Their
22 experience of what they see in the house with
23 the customer, maybe the family, some other
24 things, are part of a larger conversation.
228
1 Many of them don't get that kind of support.
2 They also were able to lease vehicles to make
3 sure that they had rides to get to where they
4 needed to be.
5 I like to try to look at this issue a
6 little bit more broadly. So there's some
7 things that we're working on currently with
8 the Home Care Association and some of our own
9 other partners to try to look at this
10 workforce issue out of the economic
11 development lens.
12 And so what I mean by that, there's
13 three areas that I think we could look at.
14 Is there a healthcare cost either to the
15 individual or to Medicaid or Medicare if an
16 individual either can't have their case
17 opened because there aren't the aides, or
18 they're getting less hours than they were
19 authorized because of an aide shortage. And
20 what's the implication of that? Emergency
21 room visits, hospitalizations or, most
22 importantly, the inability to discharge
23 safely back to the community and therefore --
24 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: If you could
229
1 quickly finish.
2 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: Yeah, sorry
3 about that.
4 -- number one. Number two is, you
5 know, the wage impact on other benefits that
6 individuals would receive by being paid a low
7 wage, and is there an offset there.
8 And then finally, if you're receiving
9 additional dollars, is it an immediate impact
10 to the economy, to the tax base, local
11 businesses -- does it support the schools,
12 the tourism industry if you have more
13 discretionary money in your pocket?
14 So if we kind of pull these things
15 together, we might be able to have a
16 different conversation about the value.
17 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: Thank you very
18 much. Appreciate it.
19 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
20 Senate?
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: And we have a
22 second round for Aging chair Rachel May. I
23 think our chairs are tag-teaming.
24 SENATOR MAY: We are tag teaming each
230
1 other, because I want to follow up on that
2 and a question I asked earlier about money
3 for economic development around the state.
4 So we've got a zero-sum or a
5 negative-sum budget that we're dealing with.
6 And I definitely hear a lot about why we're
7 putting money into regional economic
8 development to develop new businesses or new
9 opportunities for employment when we've got
10 already such needs for people to work in a
11 field like home healthcare. And if the
12 government would consider shifting some of
13 that economic development money into areas
14 where you could employ somebody tomorrow, if
15 we had the money, if we were able to, you
16 know, boost that with a salary to something
17 where people would really want to do it.
18 So I'm wondering if that is -- if you
19 work together in any way with the REDC or
20 other economic development folks to just talk
21 about this.
22 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: Well, I think
23 our role has been -- you know, given the
24 leadership of, you know, our agency, the
231
1 Health Department, the Department of State in
2 helping, you know, advance the age-friendly
3 principles, et cetera, we've had a lot of
4 opportunities to present to the REDCs across
5 the state and really, again, talk about, you
6 know, the economics of aging and the
7 investment and trying to keep these resources
8 in the community by supporting, you know, the
9 types of things that need to be done to
10 improve people's health.
11 So I know that the way that the REDCs
12 work is, you know, within the regions you can
13 submit ideas to be funded. And so certainly
14 that's an option that I hope that folks are
15 thinking about and proactively pursuing.
16 SENATOR MAY: Okay. Thank you.
17 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
18 So I believe that's all of the
19 questions we have for you for today -- oh,
20 I'm sorry. Senator Serino.
21 SENATOR SERINO: Thank you. Good
22 afternoon, Commissioner Olsen.
23 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: Hi, Senator,
24 how are you?
232
1 SENATOR SERINO: Good. Nice to see
2 you.
3 And I just want to say Assemblyman
4 Bronson asked quite a few of my questions,
5 and I echo his sentiments. And with the CSE,
6 the $15 million is great, but I really do
7 feel that we need more money. I agree with
8 the -- having a seat at the table for MRT,
9 and I hope that we can all work together on
10 that.
11 Assemblymember Wright, the points on
12 elder abuse, I echo those as well. The care
13 tax credit, that should be a number-one
14 priority. It will drive down costs in other
15 areas.
16 The ombudsman, a lot of people, unless
17 you've had somebody in long-term care, you
18 probably don't even know who they are or what
19 they do, but they're the watchdog and the
20 patient advocate for these individuals, and
21 they're so critically important.
22 So my question, Commissioner, is do
23 you think that we have enough ombudsmen
24 operating in the state now?
233
1 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: I think that
2 we could definitely -- part of our strategy
3 is to increase the number of highly trained
4 volunteers to make sure that we have
5 100 percent service coverage.
6 SENATOR SERINO: And then do you have
7 ideas for incentivizing volunteers? And do
8 you think that you're going to need
9 additional funding to do it?
10 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: Yeah, so as I
11 mentioned earlier, we've been pilot-testing
12 the $75 a month stipend to some of the
13 volunteers that have really shown that
14 there's been a positive impact on recruitment
15 and retention and, more importantly, that
16 those higher-functioning volunteers are doing
17 a lot more work because of that stipend. So
18 there's been a real positive cause and
19 effect, which we were hoping. And that's
20 what we wanted to test.
21 So I think that's something that we're
22 looking at internally whether we can, you
23 know, not only continue but expand -- and
24 also want to do same thing with the HICAP
234
1 program for exactly the same reasons. A
2 very, very labor intensive-type program with
3 a lot of specialty. And, you know, you need
4 a special person to do that type of work.
5 And so it's amazing that we have almost 900
6 volunteers in those two programs that, again,
7 are state-certified, go through an amazing
8 training. But it's intense, as you know,
9 and -- so I'm proud that we can -- that we
10 can suggest that, yeah.
11 SENATOR SERINO: And then my other
12 thought is with retirees. You know, so often
13 people live longer, they're retiring and
14 they're looking for things to do to give back
15 to the communities. Maybe if we did like a
16 tax credit for them, that would incentivize
17 them to do this as well, like we do with the
18 volunteer first responders.
19 My other question is, because it's one
20 of the biggest issues that I hear about, is
21 the affordable housing in our area. And I
22 see in the proposal there's a reappropriation
23 of over $100 million for rental affordable
24 housing for low-income seniors. What
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1 coordination of efforts do you have underway
2 with HCR to ensure that housing needs for
3 seniors are going to be met?
4 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: Yeah, I think
5 the -- you know, the Governor's housing plan
6 specifically tied funding to units. So I
7 know that there was 8,659 units of housing so
8 far that have either been built or
9 refurbished specifically for older adults,
10 and more as part of that plan.
11 I think again, you know, part of the
12 effort that we're undertaking to have a
13 top-down approach on age-friendly in the
14 eight domains, of which housing is one of
15 them, in a bottom-up approach is so that --
16 you know, we've got 27 municipalities now
17 that are officially certified and AARP/World
18 Health Organization age-friendly
19 communities -- are a grant that we just
20 completed that we're going to contract with
21 now, will bring another 13 communities on
22 board.
23 And why that's important is because
24 this is a real local effort, which again,
236
1 housing and transportation and social
2 inclusion, all those domains that you're very
3 well aware of, these will be part of and have
4 to be addressed as the municipalities go
5 through this local planning process. And so
6 a lot of these decisions in terms of, you
7 know, what's needed, how many housing units
8 do you have, what are the ability to do X, Y,
9 Z, will come as part of that planning
10 process.
11 And so I think you can see from like
12 where I come from that the opportunity here
13 to kind of push this -- the idea that these
14 are the types of things we all need to be
15 thinking of -- you know, workforce -- aging
16 is not just out here. I mean, there's every
17 system that, in state government and
18 community, has to deal with older adults,
19 period. And so, you know, part of the
20 planning and implementation process to become
21 age-friendly, that these housing options are
22 going to have to be discussed and planned for
23 and built at the local level.
24 SENATOR SERINO: And that's one way of
237
1 keeping our seniors here. Because we keep
2 talking about the outmigration of people
3 here, and we talk a lot about the young
4 population, but we're really not doing
5 anything to keep the older population here.
6 So -- and that was my question, too.
7 Do you have any other ideas for keeping the
8 seniors here? Like how do we keep them
9 here -- and I guess we'll have to continue
10 this conversation, because I see my clock is
11 running out. But I think it's just something
12 to keep in the back of our minds that we do,
13 because once our older generation goes, the
14 younger tend to follow too, so.
15 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: Yeah. And,
16 you know, just quickly, because I would love
17 to talk to you more about this -- I mean,
18 that has been our strategy. We're aware of
19 that.
20 We're also aware that the reason
21 people don't always move is not just because
22 of taxes and the high cost of living. There
23 are plenty of reports and studies about the
24 entire nation, using 85 different indicators
238
1 on what matters to you in your community.
2 And what's very interesting is that if you
3 survey older adults in terms of what they
4 want, how do they want their community
5 designed, it's exactly the same types of
6 things that millennials want. They want to
7 not have to rely on the automobile. They
8 want to go someplace where they can sit with
9 a friend. They want to socialize. They want
10 to have access to trails and parks.
11 So all these things that I keep seeing
12 in the Governor's budget proposals over the
13 years, with the Empire Trail and parks and
14 things, all fit into this -- you know, that's
15 what's going to help us attract people to
16 come here, because this really is a great
17 state. I'm a lifelong New Yorker. But
18 you're not going to get these types of
19 environments elsewhere. And recognizing that
20 we're competing with other states.
21 So, you know, as we talk to counties
22 and municipalities about why to engage into
23 these types of things -- because we are
24 competing with others who really get it. And
239
1 I think we are starting to get it here. And
2 that's why the Governor's leadership has
3 really put this on steroids through Executive
4 Order 190.
5 SENATOR SERINO: Great. I look
6 forward to talking to you about that.
7 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you. So
8 that completes the questions from the
9 members. Thank you for being here.
10 Next we will hear from Colonel Jim
11 McDonough, director of the New York State
12 Division of Veterans Services.
13 ACTING DIRECTOR OLSEN: I am going to
14 just say, before I get out of here, I just
15 appreciate all of your support, both in the
16 Senate and the Assembly. It's been long term
17 for our agency and your local offices for the
18 aging. It's meaningful, and it matters. So
19 thank you.
20 (Off the record.)
21 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Welcome here
22 for the first time.
23 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Yes, thank
24 you very much for the invitation. So I
240
1 wanted to say that right up front.
2 So good afternoon, Chairs Krueger and
3 Weinstein, and distinguished members of the
4 Senate and Assembly.
5 My name is Colonel (Retired, U.S.
6 Army) Jim McDonough, and I am the director of
7 the New York State Division of Veterans'
8 Services, or NYSDVS. Thank you for the
9 opportunity to discuss Governor Cuomo's
10 2020-2021 Executive Budget as it relates to
11 the New York State Division of Veterans'
12 Services. The core mission of the Division
13 of Veterans' Services is to connect veterans,
14 members of the armed forces and their
15 families and dependents to various economic,
16 medical and societal benefits, programs and
17 services available to them due to their
18 active-duty military service.
19 As an agency entering its 75th year of
20 service to New York State, DVS's professional
21 benefits advising staff prepares, presents,
22 and processes applications for United States
23 Department of Veterans Affairs -- VA --
24 compensation and pension awards, education
241
1 benefits, burial benefits, vocational
2 rehabilitation training, health care, nursing
3 home care, real property tax exemptions, and
4 other resources, services, and care on behalf
5 of individual veterans and their families.
6 Under Governor Cuomo's leadership,
7 New York remains a state where veterans and
8 their families are proud to call home. And
9 with the additional support of the State
10 Legislature, we can continue to provide the
11 best possible care and assistance for those
12 who have served our country.
13 The agency's economic impact,
14 delivered directly to New York's veteran
15 families, yields incredible results annually,
16 with over $750 million in tax-free federal
17 dollars for thousands of New York's veterans
18 filtering into every community across
19 New York State, this alone due to our
20 agency's actions. These efforts have a real
21 and measurable impact on improving the
22 quality of life and access to care for
23 veterans and their families.
24 This year, under Governor Cuomo's
242
1 leadership, the division strengthened its
2 relationship with our partners in county
3 veterans' service agencies through
4 improvements being made in training,
5 technology, and tools by which to best serve
6 our mutual clients. Importantly, the
7 division is overhauling its training programs
8 to be more inclusive of our partners in
9 county veterans' service agencies by offering
10 them access to all training and education
11 endeavors. Our strategy is simple: what we
12 provide for our own team, we will ultimately
13 provide to the counties, and at no additional
14 expense to them.
15 It is with this same commitment to
16 bettering the lives of New York's veterans
17 and their families that this year's
18 Executive Budget includes initiatives which
19 will additionally address their mental
20 health, housing and educational needs. The
21 Governor's budget also seeks to establish
22 further dignified burial options for
23 New York's veteran families by establishing
24 the state's first veterans' cemetery.
243
1 The proposed budget also supports
2 investments of $5 million to expand permanent
3 supportive housing for homeless veterans
4 through the state's Homeless Housing and
5 Assistance Program, HHAP, and $1 million to
6 partner with organizations to help veterans,
7 law enforcement, and first responders with
8 suicide prevention efforts.
9 We are grateful for the continued
10 support of Governor Cuomo and his
11 administration in further investing in the
12 needs of our veteran families. We are
13 committed to working with our partners at
14 New York State Homes and Community Renewal
15 and the New York State Office of Temporary
16 and Disability Assistance to support housing
17 New York's veterans and to apply these
18 additional resources best. We will also
19 utilize other funds such as the Homeless
20 Veterans Assistance Fund to address
21 additional societal needs of New York's
22 veteran families.
23 As the state agency of record charged
24 with assisting them, we maintain a very
244
1 robust and outwardly facing stance, with
2 easy-to-access offices in every major VA
3 Medical Center in New York State, coupled
4 with an increasing presence in VA Vet Centers
5 and community-based outpatient clinics, as
6 well as community settings.
7 Combined, our agency's efforts will
8 continue to provide the best quality service
9 to New York's veterans, service members and
10 their families for the next 75 years and
11 beyond.
12 Thank you for the opportunity to
13 present the Governor's Executive Budget to
14 the committee. And on behalf of New York's
15 veteran families, thank you for your
16 continued support of the agency's mission. I
17 look forward to answering any questions you
18 may have. Thank you.
19 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you for
20 being here.
21 And we'll go to our Assembly chair of
22 the Veterans' Committee, Didi Barrett.
23 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: Thank you.
24 Thank you for being here --
245
1 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Yes, ma'am.
2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: -- and thank
3 you, Madams Chair.
4 I appreciate the commitment in the
5 budget and your focus on -- well, let me say
6 at the offset we're really happy to have you
7 here, and we're happy to have a head of the
8 division. It makes a difference in this
9 budget process, but it obviously has been
10 making a difference all along, since you
11 were -- came into this position last spring,
12 was that --
13 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: April. April
14 of last year. My second time, as you know.
15 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: Yes, your
16 second round. But the first as the director,
17 right?
18 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: I was the
19 same position.
20 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: Oh, the same
21 position?
22 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: I'm on my
23 second spin, yes.
24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: And the second
246
1 time's a charm?
2 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: It is,
3 absolutely.
4 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: Good.
5 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: It's an
6 honor, actually, so.
7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: I appreciate
8 the commitment and the work on housing. But
9 as you know, many times especially veterans,
10 but others, are homeless because of other
11 issues. And so I'm very concerned -- and I
12 know this is not in our budget, but what are
13 you doing to ensure that the Governor puts in
14 Dwyer funding, which has been one of the most
15 effective programs in the peer-to-peer --
16 with the peer-to-peer model. It's not in
17 every county yet. It should be in every
18 county. It should be fully funded. And it
19 should be funded from the Executive, not just
20 from the Legislature.
21 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Sure. Let me
22 address the Dwyer program. Although my
23 colleagues in the Office of Mental Health run
24 the program, we are more or less integrated
247
1 behind the scenes on the delivery of those
2 resources to the 26 of 62 counties to which
3 they now flow.
4 It's a good program. I think it needs
5 to be looked at in terms of a bit of
6 standardization and quality in terms of what
7 are the deliverables behind the program. I
8 think we need to look at things like impact,
9 measurable outcomes desired to the program.
10 And I think the program could use a
11 bit of a refresh around what we put in for
12 all. There are very good programs in those
13 26 counties. They differ as much as the
14 counties differ.
15 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: So would it
16 help if it were under your division as
17 opposed to the OMH?
18 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: You know,
19 I -- it matters not to me where it's
20 ultimately placed, but what impact can I have
21 on the program from whether I sit at the
22 center of it or adjacent to it. I'm actively
23 involved with my partners in OMH in shaping
24 the future of that.
248
1 I can tell that you that as I approve
2 the monies to be sent forward, because it
3 does come through the division out of OMH, I
4 look hard at what are the activities, the
5 scope of work, and what's the impact that
6 we're seeking through those grants.
7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: Okay. Thank
8 you. I mean, it is one -- the one issue that
9 I hear from all my colleagues over and over,
10 is they know when it's working in their --
11 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: I hear the
12 same. And they are hungry for a bit of
13 reinforcement around quality and expectations
14 and training that goes into the program.
15 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: And
16 consistency. I mean --
17 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Yup.
18 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: -- I think,
19 you know, and there are counties that have,
20 you know, no access to it, so that makes a
21 difference.
22 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Absolutely.
23 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: I was very
24 happy last year to sponsor the legislation
249
1 which became law that allows veterans with
2 bad papers, as you know, to apply for New
3 York State veterans benefits that they
4 otherwise would not have been eligible for.
5 What, if any, are the resources that
6 you've put into this year's budget to
7 implement that measure?
8 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Sure. And
9 thank you for the leadership on the
10 Restoration of Honor Act, both you and
11 Senator Brooks, and we really appreciate
12 that.
13 So the Restoration of Honor Act,
14 signed into law by the Governor on Veterans
15 Day of last year, is a very new programmatic
16 effort within the Division of Veterans'
17 Services. And just as you indicate, this is
18 really a first-of-its-kind in the nation
19 opportunity for those individual service
20 members who have been uncharacteristically
21 discharged from their military service due to
22 five conditions or issues -- posttraumatic
23 stress disorder, traumatic brain injury,
24 military sexual trauma, and sexual
250
1 orientation or gender identity.
2 And so if a service member has been
3 uncharacteristically discharged with paper
4 other than honorable, we are the first state
5 in the nation that's going to say to those
6 individuals, there's a process for you by
7 which to apply for and receive state veterans
8 benefits. And while we're not influencing
9 the federal benefits delivery system yet,
10 we're recognizing that as a progressive state
11 in this country, we have an additional
12 responsibility for New York's veteran
13 families to turn on those benefits as we can.
14 We have baked into the backroom of the
15 Division of Veterans' Services a complete
16 business process for handling those
17 applications. The infrastructure is in
18 place. We have an education campaign about
19 to get underway with other state agencies and
20 state leaders. Because as you know, the
21 division doesn't control every state veterans
22 benefit -- Parks and Rec, fishing licenses
23 those things, DMV. We've got a big education
24 campaign ahead of us to get the state
251
1 agencies on board with recognizing that as we
2 approve these benefits, their responsibility
3 is to turn them on.
4 I've spent a lot of time on this,
5 Didi. The last three to four months of my
6 time have been focused inwardly on getting
7 the Restoration of Honor Act's elements in
8 place so that we can begin processing those
9 applications right away. And we're about
10 30 days away from putting that in place.
11 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: So you think
12 there will be specific funding in the 30-day
13 amendments, or is that the --
14 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: No. I think
15 what I'm referring to is that we have the
16 business processes in place, the eligibility
17 determinations, the infrastructure to process
18 those applications.
19 My understanding of the fiscal impact
20 of the turning on of state veterans benefits
21 is negligible, given where we are with cash
22 ceilings and appropriations in these various
23 programs.
24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: So with your
252
1 current staff and with the current network --
2 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Yes.
3 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: --- you feel
4 it's just a matter of --
5 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: I do.
6 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: -- of
7 prioritizing and getting this information
8 out --
9 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: I do.
10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: -- at no cost?
11 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: We oversee a
12 lot of programs, this being one, and we're
13 fully capable of addressing this within the
14 division.
15 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: What about for
16 the appellate unit to upgrade? Is there
17 funding implications of that?
18 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Yeah, I --
19 within the division's overall budget I've
20 carved out funding for our brand new
21 appellate unit, as you referred to it. It's,
22 again, the first time the division has had
23 such infrastructure. I'm actually
24 reinforcing it in the next 90 days.
253
1 At this point it's more about shifting
2 assets to their first best use and looking at
3 efficiency before I pop up and say I need
4 more. I am making more right now with what I
5 have, as my first course of action, because I
6 actually believe that's what I'm paid to do.
7 And then I think the appropriate response,
8 given additional requirements, will be --
9 will be met, so.
10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: Okay, thank
11 you. And then on the issue of the
12 Article VII language, I mean, as you know
13 we've got a couple of colleagues who are
14 interested in having state military
15 cemeteries in their districts. The committee
16 that I guess you're chairing for site
17 selection and the development process -- is
18 there such a committee?
19 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Yes.
20 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: Is there a
21 process in place? Can you tell us about
22 that.
23 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Sure.
24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: Because I
254
1 think there's a lot of concern to have -- you
2 know, in what you've been asking for, that,
3 you know, we might be abdicating some of our
4 responsibility for some of that.
5 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Yeah. No, I
6 will not let that happen. As you know, my
7 relationship with you and others is one where
8 we are partners in this endeavor, so.
9 The current statute, the amendment
10 being introduced is being introduced to get
11 us up and running relative to the times. I
12 think if you look at 15 years ago when the
13 statute was first drafted, it called for a
14 study. We have to put a study together, even
15 in the revised language being introduced into
16 the study, for siting and management and
17 oversight of the cemetery. So for me it's a
18 process whereby I will engage with you
19 throughout. Just because I'm putting the
20 committee structure together doesn't mean
21 that I'm going to not live up to my
22 responsibilities to be your partner in
23 government, to involve you in every step of
24 the way.
255
1 So the committee is being formed.
2 There will be an announcement forthcoming
3 about its membership. Key to the committee's
4 responsibilities will be to engage with the
5 Legislature on all fronts to make sure that
6 that is not the case. And you have my
7 personal commitment to making sure that is
8 not such.
9 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: And you will
10 be open to hearing the -- you know, the other
11 possible locations --
12 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Absolutely.
13 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: -- as well as,
14 obviously, the questions about long-term
15 funding. And, you know, the fact that we
16 can't fund a lot of programs that we want to
17 fund, but we're putting money into this.
18 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Every step of
19 the way. I mean, what we have to do as a
20 committee is we have to come together on the
21 siting, first and foremost. And then we have
22 to put together the management, the
23 resources, the infrastructure required to
24 support state veterans cemetery operations.
256
1 I've been working with the Division of
2 Budget and my partners in the executive
3 branch with cost models relative to the other
4 48 states that operate state veterans
5 cemeteries. We're dialed into the National
6 Cemetery Administration and its requirements.
7 And I'm pleased that we're where we are in
8 terms of the planning to kind of establish
9 the state's first veterans cemetery.
10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: Okay,
11 thank you.
12 And just as a final point, I've been
13 hearing from people -- and we did at the last
14 hearing we did on the nursing homes that are
15 our state nursing homes --
16 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: The state
17 veterans homes?
18 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: Yeah, the
19 veterans homes, sorry. Can you talk a little
20 bit about how -- the funding and, you know,
21 the viability of those?
22 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Yeah. Again,
23 I don't run them or own them, but my partners
24 in the Department of Health and SUNY actually
257
1 oversee our five state veterans homes -- four
2 in the Health Department, one in SUNY down at
3 Stony Brook.
4 I think I've been in all of them. And
5 while they're wonderful facilities, every
6 program we're part of has room for
7 improvement. The most challenging of the
8 homes is Oxford in terms of its staffing
9 models, and I think we need to look at that
10 carefully as to what incentives could be put
11 in place to kind of incentivize clinicians,
12 providers to kind of work in that rural neck
13 of the woods in our state.
14 If you go to Long Island, it's -- the
15 census is always there, St. Albans, Montrose.
16 I've been in a lot of nursing homes lately
17 and a lot of senior facilities. And the
18 state veterans homes, while they have their
19 share of challenges with staffing, are some
20 of the best-run facilities that I've been in
21 in the past three years of my life, my mom
22 having passed away in one of them, so.
23 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: Okay. Thank
24 you.
258
1 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
2 Senate?
3 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
4 Senator John Brooks, our chair of the
5 Veterans Committee.
6 SENATOR BROOKS: Thank you, Madam
7 Chairman. {Mic off; inaudible.}.
8 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: I think your
9 mic, sir --
10 (Off the record.)
11 SENATOR BROOKS: Okay, good. Sorry.
12 Once again, Colonel, it's good to see you.
13 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: You too, sir.
14 SENATOR BROOKS: Thank you for your
15 service, by the way.
16 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: It was an
17 honor.
18 SENATOR BROOKS: You know, I think our
19 veterans in this state are probably one of
20 the key assets we have -- men and women who
21 have served this country with -- many with
22 distinction, served in different sets of
23 circumstances. And unfortunately, many of
24 them are facing issues, and as you and I well
259
1 know.
2 We have a suicide problem. We had a
3 group in the other day, the female side of
4 that problem seems to be getting worse.
5 We've got many people, homeless people
6 looking for food, people with mental health
7 issues. A lot -- a lot of problems there.
8 You know, I think we've done some good
9 things. This particular budget, I'm very --
10 very disappointed in one -- one particular
11 situation. You know, the budget -- and you
12 and I have talked about the cemetery a number
13 of times. It's in the budget, and that's
14 good. But the legislative incentives -- or
15 initiatives, rather, that we put in the
16 budget last year, all of them were cut out.
17 That's programs for the living.
18 That's programs that respect the service that
19 these men and women gave to this country. It
20 addresses the needs and problems that they're
21 dealing with today. We know, for example,
22 with many of the Vietnam vets, the Agent
23 Orange problems are only becoming worse. Yet
24 it's all cut from the budget. And these men
260
1 and women who serve this country, some in
2 battle, are now, over the next couple of
3 weeks, going to come back here and beg us to
4 put that money back in the budget.
5 They are owed more respect from us as
6 a state than to do that. Those programs
7 work. Those programs should be expanded.
8 The Dwyer program right now in Washington is
9 being considered to be taken national. We
10 shouldn't be in a situation of in a way
11 disrespecting our veterans by telling them:
12 You've got to come ask for that again.
13 We should be in a situation today
14 where you're in a position to announce that
15 because of the various programs, we've housed
16 5,000 more veterans, or the suicide rate has
17 dropped by 30 percent. So I find the history
18 of the way we've handled this budget in some
19 ways very disappointing. And I don't direct
20 that at you at all. And I compliment you for
21 the approach you've been taking, the
22 discussions that we've had. But I think we
23 have to do better.
24 And I think we have to recognize that
261
1 these folks have some serious challenges.
2 And it's unfortunate, you can go in many of
3 the communities in this state and see
4 somebody with a sign that says "Veteran,
5 homeless." We can do better than that.
6 So I appreciate what you're trying to
7 do. I appreciate the initiatives you're
8 taking. I think the cemetery program is a
9 good program. But we have to be honest with
10 ourselves. We have to be honest with
11 ourselves that many veterans are facing
12 significant, significant challenges. And we
13 should be proactive and recognize those
14 programs, put the money in the budget at the
15 front end, recognize what we're going to do,
16 be in a position to report the information
17 back.
18 You know, we've talked a lot about
19 communication with the veterans and programs
20 to make them aware of, and assistance. And
21 it's all good stuff. And I want to work with
22 you to make sure we accomplish that. But
23 when I saw the budget once again and we saw,
24 what, $106 million cut from the budget from
262
1 programs we worked hard to put in place,
2 programs that do work, programs that veterans
3 groups are counting on -- and now we're going
4 to go through the process of trying to fund
5 them again. And last year we know we missed
6 some of them, and those funds weren't there.
7 So, you know, you're showing great
8 leadership in this, and we've had many a good
9 conversation. But this budget isn't the way
10 it should have been done. This budget
11 shouldn't say to veterans, come ask us again
12 for what not only you deserve, but we should
13 be proud to give them and talk about how
14 we're enhancing some programs.
15 So I don't really have a question. I
16 mean, we've talked about pretty much
17 everything under the sun --
18 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Yeah, may I
19 address a couple of your points?
20 SENATOR BROOKS: But -- but I just --
21 I think we could do this better. And our
22 veterans deserve better.
23 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: So you're
24 never going to hear me say I can't do
263
1 something better, because I know that's part
2 of life every day. So that's point number
3 one.
4 The second point I'd like to make is
5 that when we talk about our veteran
6 population, the tendency is to think of these
7 individual baskets of problems. The truth is
8 there's a lot of co-occurrence that
9 transcends veterans' issues. Housing is
10 related to legal, is related to family, is
11 related to financing.
12 So the best thinking in the world will
13 tell you that at this point in life -- and
14 I've been part of it for the last 15 years
15 since retiring -- is that there's a lot of
16 capacity out there that just remains, you
17 know, unnavigable. And the greatest effort
18 has got to be put forth in breaking down the
19 silos where there is rich capacity to address
20 human needs. That's point one.
21 Point two is that for every veteran
22 who has a problem, there's five to eight
23 veterans who are functioning highly as
24 wonderful assets in our communities, setting
264
1 examples for others to kind of live their
2 lives by. So I know we tend to think of
3 those with problems. Just flipping that
4 narrative slightly to recognize that these
5 problems are real, they're overlapping, they
6 co-occur -- but all around these troubled
7 souls are in fact people trying to help them,
8 and they're very good veterans of our armed
9 force.
10 With respect to the budget, I want to
11 make this very clear, that the Governor's
12 commitment, based upon inputs from those of
13 us on the Executive side of the coin, reflect
14 what we believe are some of the greatest
15 priorities, you know, that need to be
16 addressed for our veteran population.
17 Housing, a $5 million additional investment
18 in tackling the homeless problem. That's a
19 large investment given where the fiscal
20 realities of the State of New York are right
21 now. A new million-dollar initiative to
22 address suicidality amongst law enforcement,
23 first responders and our veterans.
24 So the things you talk about, we're
265
1 listening. We're doing more with these new
2 initiatives in the next 12 months than have
3 been done in the last three years. And while
4 I recognize my responsibility is to work with
5 you to kind of right whatever wrong I can --
6 you have my commitment to doing so. Both you
7 and Assemblywoman Barrett know how closely I
8 want to work with you.
9 So I'm one of them, is the last thing
10 I'll say. I am a veteran myself. This is
11 personal and professional. And I go to work
12 every day trying to meet the expectations of
13 those I am charged with serving. Some days
14 we do it better than others, but every day we
15 put forth a good-faith effort across the
16 agency, with our partners in county
17 government and in the federal government, to
18 make a dent in the problem, so -- and you
19 have my ongoing commitment to do so.
20 SENATOR BROOKS: Yeah. No, I -- and I
21 do think we have opportunities.
22 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Yeah, we do.
23 SENATOR BROOKS: Certainly as we look
24 over the program in Stony Brook, the nursing
266
1 home and the day care center, we should try
2 to expand that where we can.
3 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Absolutely.
4 SENATOR BROOKS: I think there's a lot
5 of opportunities. I just -- I just am
6 upset --
7 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: I get it,
8 sir.
9 SENATOR BROOKS: -- like I said, that
10 people are going to have to come to ask for
11 things that we know work. We should have
12 shown the respect of putting them in the
13 budget.
14 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: I think in
15 this budget we are doing some new things that
16 weren't there a year ago, and we will
17 continue to press for innovative program
18 delivery and capacity to address the needs of
19 the people I served with, so.
20 SENATOR BROOKS: Thank you.
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
22 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Assemblyman
23 Walczyk.
24 ASSEMBLYMAN WALCZYK: Director
267
1 McDonough, sir, first, thank you for your
2 20 years -- 26 years of service. And we're
3 certainly very fortunate to have you continue
4 to serve in this capacity, so --
5 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Thank you.
6 ASSEMBLYMAN WALCZYK: -- thanks for
7 being here.
8 I have the distinct honor of
9 representing what I call the front yard of
10 America. It's northern Jefferson and
11 St. Lawrence Counties. I have a 120-mile
12 border with Canada, and Fort Drum is in my
13 backyard. So we have the fastest-growing
14 veteran population in New York State. And as
15 such, veterans services is near and dear to
16 my heart and important to the representation
17 that I do in this job.
18 You as a young officer I'm sure were
19 told to salute and execute at times --
20 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: {Chuckling.}.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN WALCZYK: -- and there's
22 no real -- in the same way that we do our
23 business here in the Legislature, there's no
24 opportunity, many cases in the Army, for
268
1 compromise or negotiation. People die if
2 you're taking that time, right? So you
3 salute and execute.
4 And something else -- and I also
5 served, but you've talked a few times today
6 already about doing more with less. And I
7 can think of these training opportunities in
8 the past where, all right, well, we didn't
9 get all the equipment we want, but we'll
10 figure it out, because that's impressed on
11 you as a leader.
12 But I think when it comes to taking
13 care of our veterans, doing more with less is
14 not an acceptable thing. When you talk about
15 the great work that the Private Joseph P.
16 Dwyer Program is doing, if you look at the
17 Veterans Outreach Center in Watertown,
18 New York, I mean, I've seen it firsthand how
19 important this funding is. When you talk
20 about Helmets to Hard hats and, you know, the
21 work that they're doing with our local IBEW
22 to transition soldiers out of the military
23 and hand them right into the workforce -- and
24 we're talking about retaining some of the
269
1 best leaders and young minds and great
2 workforce in New York State. I mean, that's
3 an investment I can't compromise on.
4 When you look at the great work that
5 Clear Path for Veterans is doing in Central
6 New York, the phenomenal things that they're
7 doing -- service animals to yoga, you know,
8 you can enter a yoga program there, Project
9 Healing Waters. Even SAGE, I was surprised
10 to see the Governor -- which is, you know,
11 addressed as a group that he usually says
12 he's very friendly to and can't be ignored,
13 certainly in our veteran community.
14 You were an OCS graduate, right?
15 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Correct.
16 ASSEMBLYMAN WALCZYK: Me as well. And
17 I don't know if you remember the call and
18 response in OCS, but at Officer Candidate
19 School, when you salute, one individual says
20 "Standards." And do you remember what the
21 response is, sir?
22 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: "All the way"
23 is what we said.
24 ASSEMBLYMAN WALCZYK: Well, that's
270
1 Airborne: "Airborne all the way."
2 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Yeah, I was
3 an Airborne soldier.
4 ASSEMBLYMAN WALCZYK: Yup. And
5 Airborne's right behind the OCS School. But
6 the response is "No compromise." And that's
7 where I'm at on this --
8 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Understood.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN WALCZYK: -- when it comes
10 to zeroing out these important programs in
11 this budget that the Governor's set forward.
12 I don't think there's room for compromise
13 here. I think they have to be restored. And
14 I'd appreciate any comment that --
15 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Yeah, sure.
16 So let me take a swing at this.
17 So, first of all, I actually didn't
18 say "do more with less," so let's be clear on
19 what I did say. What I did say is my first
20 course of business is to make sure that I'm
21 making the best use of the resources I have.
22 And I have found inefficiency. I have found
23 malpositioned veterans' benefits advisors
24 that I've moved. I have found the ability to
271
1 kind of squeeze where resources weren't being
2 put to their first best use, and I have
3 shifted those responsibilities.
4 So this is not a game of doing more
5 with less. This is, first of all, a set of
6 responsibilities that recognizes my
7 responsibility is to run a good organization
8 to the best of my ability, first, and then if
9 that's not possible, to seek the additional
10 resources to do so.
11 But I'll be honest with you, I found a
12 lot of inefficiency. I found malpositioned
13 resources. I've found people where the
14 demand wasn't there. I've shifted them to
15 where the marketplace demands more resources.
16 I was the state director who placed
17 veterans' benefits advisors on Fort Drum,
18 New York, to cooperate with the DOD, where I
19 used to be assigned, to assist in the
20 transition of people like me off that
21 installation. The last seven years of my
22 life I built the Onward to Opportunity
23 program, the Career Skills program -- of
24 which Helmets to Hard Hats is one -- which
272
1 does a great deal of work to ensure that
2 today transitioning service members leave
3 service with a job before they separate from
4 service. So I couldn't agree with you more.
5 But let's recognize I've been in the
6 chair for nine months. My first
7 responsibility is to make the first best use
8 of my resources. When that's all said and
9 done, I'm not afraid to seek the additional
10 resources required to run this place best.
11 And I think the Executive Budget reflects my
12 voice that housing and suicide prevention is
13 a big issue in this state, as it is in this
14 country, and I'm going to do my best to kind
15 of address those issues.
16 So I'm not -- for those that know me,
17 I don't compromise. I am relentless in my
18 pursuit of right and what's good for people
19 who serve their country, and I will continue
20 to be so.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN WALCZYK: Thank you, sir.
22 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Yup.
23 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
24 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Senator Savino.
273
1 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you, Senator
2 Krueger.
3 Commissioner, I just have one -- two
4 questions, actually. One, on the veterans
5 cemetery, I know there's going to be a lot of
6 competition for where it should go. But
7 there's long been an effort to bring one to
8 Staten Island because of the difficulty and
9 the distance that Staten Island residents
10 have to go currently. So I'd just hope that
11 that would be part of the discussion.
12 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: It is, yeah.
13 So -- can I comment on that very quickly?
14 SENATOR SAVINO: Sure, absolutely.
15 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: So the
16 National Cemetery Administration is putting
17 forth an effort to build a columbarium on the
18 grounds of St. Albans. And so I think you'll
19 see that come about. It's in the National
20 Cemetery Administration's priorities. As you
21 know, land is a premium. So this is an
22 inside columbarium, kind of a first-of-its-
23 kind set of plans. So I think when we get to
24 down to Queens and areas like that, you'll
274
1 see some improvements right there.
2 SENATOR SAVINO: Hopefully so.
3 And then finally, three years ago on
4 Veterans Day the Governor signed an amendment
5 to the Compassionate Care Act, which is our
6 medical marijuana statute in New York State,
7 and he did it largely to add PTSD as a
8 qualifying condition. That decision was
9 driven largely by the efforts of the New York
10 State Veterans Council and others recognizing
11 the vast numbers of veterans who are
12 suffering from PTSD.
13 So since that time do you have any
14 sense of how many veterans have been able to
15 avail themselves of it? And has their been
16 any coordination with the VA?
17 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Yeah. Yup.
18 SENATOR SAVINO: Because there was
19 always a concern that they would use that
20 against them.
21 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Yeah, it's
22 still a tricky issue because of the
23 difference of opinion between the federal
24 government and -- and certainly the state.
275
1 We are part of the newly stood-up
2 Governor's Cannabis Task Force, where we will
3 kind of address the concerns of our
4 population within the development of a
5 cannabis program for the State of New York.
6 But it is of concern in our population
7 because of access to VA benefits. There's a
8 lot of hypotheticals out there on what could
9 happen.
10 It's a tricky place to navigate with
11 an individual veteran because of pain
12 management and the things that the federal
13 government does not allow. But we are having
14 input to the process in the Cannabis Task
15 Force that is stood up by the Governor.
16 SENATOR SAVINO: That's my final point
17 on this. So my brother-in-law passed away
18 two years ago, he was a veteran. He got his
19 medical services from the VA. He suffered
20 from spinal stenosis, which as you can
21 imagine is incredibly painful. While New
22 York State said you could only get a 30-day
23 prescription at a time for Oxycontin for his
24 pain, the VA would mail him 90 days at a
276
1 time. Suffice to say he became incredibly
2 dependent on the medication. And when they
3 added fentanyl patches to it, it was only a
4 matter of time before he died. That's what
5 happened.
6 So is there any coordination between
7 the VA and the healthcare providers and even
8 yourself in this state to say the amount of
9 drugs they're giving people at one time is
10 contributing to an early death for a lot of
11 these veterans who are suffering from PTSD,
12 suffering from chronic pain? Injuries that
13 they may have sustained decades ago are still
14 bedeviling them. I mean, what can we do to
15 get a handle on this?
16 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: So first of
17 all, I'm sorry for your loss. That's the
18 first thing I will say.
19 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you.
20 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: The second
21 thing is I think you'd be surprised how
22 involved I am in formularies at individual
23 clinics across the state. I have a friend of
24 mine who's a cardiac nurse in Plattsburgh,
277
1 New York, and she couldn't get a drug out of
2 formulary for a veteran, a Vietnam veteran
3 that she was caring for.
4 She called me and let me know the
5 frustration he was having. I went right to
6 the VA Medical Center director and explained
7 the situation; he went right into the lab and
8 reestablished the proper medication, the
9 cardiac medication.
10 So we are involved in small ways and
11 in big ways. You know, I'm of a generation
12 where a lot of drugs were prescribed to my
13 friends who served with me -- overmedication,
14 as you'd say. That's kind of going by the
15 wayside a little bit. The trend line is less
16 so, because I think what we're realizing is
17 that sadly, that doesn't solve a person's
18 problems. So I think you're seeing the trend
19 shift a little bit away from overmedication
20 to other forms of therapy and clinical
21 approaches. But certainly my population
22 recognizes the danger of being prescribed too
23 much in terms of the pain and suffering that
24 comes from war, so.
278
1 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you. And
2 finally, there are some local initiatives
3 that are coming forward. In Brooklyn a local
4 veterans group is starting a mindful
5 meditation program. And I think those are
6 the types of things the VA and the State
7 Veterans could be very helpful in
8 establishing and, you know, coordinating with
9 veterans organizations.
10 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: I mean, you
11 mentioned Clear Path for Veterans and yoga.
12 We fund Clear Path for Veterans. We fund
13 SAGE Vets. So we're investing in these I
14 would say innovative approaches to dealing
15 with pain management, trauma and the impact
16 of war. And we're big believers in
17 whatever --
18 SENATOR SAVINO: Whatever works.
19 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: -- works for
20 one person. I'm not a judge. If someone
21 tells me that these things work, I'm
22 generally going to take a hard look at it,
23 can we can develop the evidence around it,
24 and go from there, so.
279
1 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you.
2 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: You're
3 welcome.
4 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
5 We go to Assemblywoman Barrett for a
6 second five minutes.
7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: Thank you
8 again for being here.
9 And I just wanted to clarify a couple
10 of points and then ask for one additional
11 subject we haven't covered.
12 We may in the enacted budget fund SAGE
13 and Clear Path and Helmets to Hard Hats and a
14 lot of other things, but it's never in the
15 Executive Budget. And to my colleagues'
16 points here, you know, it would be -- it's
17 very hard to explain to constituents when you
18 get back, you know, to the district, or
19 veterans in general that, well, no, it's not
20 in the Executive Budget, but we're -- it's a
21 legislative add. What does that mean to --
22 you know, to most people? Nothing.
23 So I think that it's really
24 important -- and I know that you've only been
280
1 here 10 months and it's -- you know, and
2 you've done a tremendous amount, and I really
3 appreciate particularly the outreach with the
4 counties, because that has been a real
5 bottleneck and a real source of waste --
6 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Yes.
7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: -- and
8 redundancy, so that's really important. But,
9 you know, I think that it's important that
10 this budget be a holistic statement of what
11 matters not just to the Legislature but to
12 the state. And I would love you to kind of
13 look more seriously at that in the future.
14 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Absolutely.
15 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: And the other
16 issue that I -- and I'll let you answer both
17 of them -- is that we really didn't talk at
18 all about the special issues around women
19 veterans. And I'm wondering if there's
20 anything in the budget here or in your
21 priority list that's addressing that.
22 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Sure, let me
23 talk about that for a moment. And thank you
24 for the question.
281
1 So before I came over here this
2 morning, I introduced to my own organization
3 our new deputy director for diversity, equity
4 and inclusion. Kind of an elevated title, if
5 you will, beyond "women veterans
6 coordinator," which by statute I'm supposed
7 to have.
8 My approach to this is to kind of
9 integrate our efforts across all lines of
10 activities that I'm responsible for. The
11 idea of marginalized subsets of the veteran
12 population is highly disturbing to me. The
13 nature of becoming a veteran of the armed
14 forces in this country has been plagued by
15 membership and identity with one group versus
16 another.
17 And I -- I don't buy that. You served
18 your country, you are in fact entitled to the
19 fair treatment that I can deliver regardless
20 of the circumstance. That even extends to
21 those with bad paper. The subsets or the
22 subdemographics don't concern me. What
23 concerns me is elevating them up into this
24 pattern of services, resources and care that
282
1 can be delivered to anyone in the least
2 amount of time with the greatest amount of
3 efficacy.
4 And so my approach, why I introduced
5 this person this morning to my own team, is
6 because the perspective is that we need a
7 women veterans coordinator. Well, we need to
8 deal with the issues that are sensitive to
9 women in an inclusive way because they are
10 also veterans.
11 So my approach is to peel back this
12 with strategy and efforts that integrate our
13 lines of activities, recognizing that our
14 responsibility is to be inclusive, equitable
15 and accommodating to all. And that's the
16 approach that I will take in bringing these
17 programs to life in the State of New York.
18 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: Well, and
19 specifically issues that often -- like
20 childcare, you know, just need to be kind of
21 taken out of the mix and addressed. So I
22 hope, you know, that that's part of it too.
23 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Things like
24 expanding our hours. There's several ways to
283
1 be accommodating to those who work, who are
2 single parents, childcare.
3 You know, my colleague Mark Schroeder
4 in DMV had to expand office hours and do
5 things that traditionally government wouldn't
6 think of doing with all the rules behind
7 the -- we have to be accommodating. We have
8 to be accessible. We have to be
9 approachable.
10 The Governor has challenged every one
11 of us with engaging better with our
12 stakeholders and our constituencies. That
13 was the message we received in the most
14 recent cabinet meeting. That's me. You
15 know, I want to get out in front of it as
16 much as I can.
17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN BARRETT: Great. Thank
18 you. Thanks very much.
19 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Yes, ma'am.
20 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Senate?
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Hi, I'm going to
22 jump in probably just for one minute --
23 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Yes, ma'am.
24 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: -- because
284
1 Assemblyman Barrett just brought up an issue.
2 So, you know, we're live-streaming, so that
3 people are watching. And they're texting.
4 So they said as of a few weeks from now,
5 there will be no women counselors in your
6 system in all of New York City. And I know
7 what you said about wanting to make sure you
8 have the broadest diversity in treating
9 everybody equally. But there's got to be
10 issues women veterans feel more comfortable
11 talking to a woman counselor about.
12 So could you please double-check that
13 for me, because this is --
14 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Oh, no, I
15 have women veterans benefits advisors based
16 in New York City and Long Island.
17 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: So I'm being told
18 that that's not going to be true --
19 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: I run the
20 place.
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: -- that there
22 will be administrative staff left, but as of
23 February there will be no -- because you
24 closed one office and they have just
285
1 St. Albans?
2 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: No,
3 St. Albans, we moved that benefits
4 counselor -- we will, once her appointments
5 free up, she's moving out to Hicksville in
6 Nassau County. We will be backfilling her.
7 So that's underway right now, ma'am.
8 So the young lady's name is Kristin,
9 she's a good veterans benefits advisor.
10 We're moving her to a Hicksville office
11 because we have no presence there. Again, my
12 resources are somewhat malpositioned. But I
13 will backfill that office, so.
14 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: So how many
15 counselors do you have in New York City?
16 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Ma'am, I have
17 about 80 veterans benefits advisors, the
18 majority of which are in and around New York
19 City and the Lower Hudson Valley.
20 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: So you don't know
21 for specifically in the five boroughs, how
22 many --
23 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: The five
24 boroughs? I can get you that answer, ma'am,
286
1 so -- I will.
2 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Because there's
3 quite a few women veterans in New York City,
4 I run into them all the time.
5 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Yeah, my --
6 my -- the person I just spoke of is based in
7 Brooklyn. So the lion's share of my staff
8 are located in or around New York City and
9 Long Island.
10 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you. I
11 look forward --
12 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Yes, ma'am,
13 I'll get you the information.
14 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: -- to getting the
15 follow-up information. Thank you.
16 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: But that is
17 not true. We do have women veterans
18 advisors.
19 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
20 Okay, we'll keep going with the
21 Senate. Senator Sue Serino.
22 SENATOR SERINO: Good afternoon,
23 Commissioner. Thank you so much for being
24 here today.
287
1 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Thank you.
2 SENATOR SERINO: And I basically have
3 more a couple of statements.
4 I just wanted to say I agree
5 wholeheartedly with Senator Brooks, I think
6 we're sending the wrong message to our
7 veterans. You know, they have to schlep up
8 here to tell us what they want when we know
9 what they need and want and what actually
10 works. The Dwyer funding has been
11 phenomenal, I know, in our district.
12 And it goes through working with
13 Mental Health America. When you think of all
14 of the suicides and the increase -- I'm
15 someone who lost a brother to suicide. He
16 wasn't a veteran, but I understand the mental
17 health issue of it, and that's key. And to
18 not have this in every single county and to
19 not have it in the Executive Budget is like a
20 slap in the face to these guys and gals that
21 fought for us.
22 The other concern that I have too is I
23 spoke to Commissioner Hein earlier -- very
24 excited about the $5 million for the homeless
288
1 veterans. But with the way it's written, if
2 it's not -- if they're not getting the
3 proposals in, that could be drawn back. And
4 when you think about it, I think you said
5 26 counties have the Dwyer money.
6 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: That's
7 correct.
8 SENATOR SERINO: And I know our guys
9 and gals have their finger on the pulse of
10 what they need. They know the homeless
11 veterans. So those other counties could be
12 missing out and not -- you know, not be
13 involved as much like to have this resource
14 to be able to tell you guys what they need.
15 So I'm just really worried about that.
16 I'd love to see that eliminated. I'd love to
17 see your support on both of those counts.
18 You seem like somebody -- you get it, you've
19 been there --
20 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: I do, yeah.
21 SENATOR SERINO: -- you've got the
22 heart for it, and now we just need to fight
23 for it. So thank you.
24 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: You're
289
1 welcome. And both Senator Brooks and
2 Assemblymember Barrett know my commitment to
3 working with them and the veterans committees
4 to kind of improve upon the service delivery.
5 So thank you for that.
6 SENATOR SERINO: Great, thank you.
7 Thank you, Commissioner.
8 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you. And
9 to close, Senator Velmanette Montgomery.
10 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: {Mic off;
11 inaudible.}
12 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Hello, ma'am.
13 Thank you.
14 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Hi, I'm sorry. I
15 would be remiss if I didn't mention the group
16 that I always talk about, and I want to start
17 by thanking you for the attention that you
18 pay the group that we in Brooklyn consider
19 our veterans organization, Black Vets for
20 Social Justice, that --
21 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: I know them
22 well.
23 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: -- you know very
24 well, yes. And I thank you for that.
290
1 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Good friends
2 with Wendy.
3 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, great.
4 And you mentioned -- I see 5 million
5 for housing for veterans. That's wonderful.
6 We certainly would like to see much more, but
7 at least it's on your agenda --
8 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Yes, ma'am.
9 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: -- and we
10 appreciate that.
11 I want to just say to you that I have
12 two armories in my district that house men,
13 African-American black and brown men,
14 basically, and many of those men are
15 veterans. So the need for housing is just
16 absolutely tremendous. And it seems to me
17 that an organization like Black Vets would be
18 ideal as a -- to partner and consider doing
19 some housing around, you know, veterans'
20 needs that would be housing and support
21 services in a supportive housing fashion.
22 So I just wanted to put that on
23 your --
24 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Thank you.
291
1 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: -- your agenda,
2 and hopefully we can talk about that at some
3 point.
4 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: I'd welcome
5 the conversation. I'll get down there and
6 speak with you. And they're good old friends
7 of mine, so.
8 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Great. Thank you
9 very much.
10 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Yes, ma'am.
11 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
12 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
13 That concludes questions, thank you.
14 DVS DIRECTOR McDONOUGH: Thank you
15 very much.
16 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you for
17 being here today with us.
18 So now we begin the public portion
19 of -- the nongovernmental witness portion of
20 our hearing. Just as -- the first witness
21 will be Gail Myers from New York StateWide
22 Senior Action Council, to be followed by
23 UJA-Federation of New York, Association on
24 Aging in New York.
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1 I just encourage people, as you're
2 getting close to speaking, to make your way
3 down. And a reminder, just in timing, the
4 witnesses have up to five minutes and members
5 have three minutes if you choose to ask a
6 question.
7 Gail, go ahead.
8 MS. MYERS: Thank you very much.
9 I really appreciate the opportunity to
10 testify today, and thank you all for the work
11 you do to support the needs of older
12 New Yorkers.
13 I will not be reading my very detailed
14 and extensive testimony, because I know you
15 will as soon as I leave, but I want to give a
16 special shout-out to Senator Montgomery for
17 her many years of leadership and advocacy for
18 vulnerable populations. So thank you for
19 that.
20 I'll start with the two programs that
21 we have that are funded through the New York
22 State Office for the Aging. One is our
23 patients' rights and advocacy hotline, and
24 the other is our managed-care consumer
293
1 assistance program. We have details on our
2 programs and the services that we offer, but
3 I want to get to the budget ask. And the
4 budget ask is for the Legislature to restore
5 our program to the current fiscal year level
6 as you're contemplating next fiscal year.
7 The Executive put in the budget for
8 $31,500 to run our program, and the last two
9 years the Legislature has added $100,000 to
10 that, which we very much appreciate and need.
11 Secondly, we ask you to reappropriate
12 the $100,000 that you put in the budget in
13 '19-'20 because, due to problems in
14 contracting, we still have not gotten that
15 money. So please have it roll over, because
16 the loss of that and services already done
17 would be devastating.
18 The second thing is our managed-care
19 consumer assistance program. We have a line
20 in the budget, along with six other agencies,
21 to provide services and counseling to older
22 New Yorkers. We -- in addition to what we do
23 for Medicare and EPIC enrollment, we also
24 provide enrollment assistance in the Medicare
294
1 Savings Program, which I will be talking
2 about in some more depth, and that gives
3 low-income Medicare enrollees premium relief
4 and also extra help, which is the federal
5 program for prescription drug assistance,
6 100 percent funded -- that last part by the
7 feds.
8 What is disturbing is that only
9 38 percent of currently eligible New Yorkers
10 are receiving that benefit. That is far
11 under the national average of 51 percent, and
12 it makes us sixth from the bottom in the
13 country of states that have penetrated moving
14 up in enrollment on that. So because of
15 that, we're asking for the MCCAP programs to
16 receive $1 million of additional funding
17 spread out among our six not-for-profit
18 agencies so that we can increase the
19 opportunity to get people enrolled in the
20 necessary benefit.
21 Now I wanted to talk a little bit
22 about unmet needs. The $15 million that was
23 added to the budget by the Governor, and that
24 you all worked very hard to have included
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1 last year -- and it is back in the budget
2 again this year -- addresses need. But we
3 think it really focuses on past waiting
4 lists, and there is so much more to do to
5 ensure access to services for older
6 New Yorkers based on the demographic data.
7 Now, we very much thank Senators
8 Persaud and May for your committees' work and
9 holding that hearing on poverty, and also for
10 Mr. Bronson and the Aging Committee in the
11 Assembly for holding a hearing on services
12 in -- this fall. It really helped -- and of
13 course your staffs. It really helped us
14 focus on being able to report to you, and as
15 a result we've completed a county-by-county
16 compilation of data regarding older residents
17 who may be relying or need to rely on aging
18 services. And I don't think we should be
19 shocked, as we're seeing the very, very
20 predictable high use of long-term care in the
21 Medicaid budget, we should also be able to
22 predict that the same is true for people who
23 have been relying on aging services.
24 So based on the census for New York
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1 statewide -- as I said, we have this county
2 by county -- but in the state we've got
3 33 percent of older residents, 65 and older,
4 living with a disability -- 65 and older,
5 about 9 percent have difficult in self-care,
6 about 6 percent have difficulty in
7 independent living. Those are people that
8 would be, depending on their income and
9 eligibility, prime candidates for expanded
10 services from the Offices for Aging.
11 From the GAO report from the federal
12 government, they looked at the services
13 funded by the Older Americans Act, which
14 comes into the state -- in large part funds
15 NYSOFA services -- they found, of
16 food-insecure older adults, 83 percent of
17 them do not receive any meals from aging
18 funding services. Two-thirds of older
19 Americans who struggle with activities of
20 daily living receive limited or no home-based
21 care. Twenty percent of older Americans are
22 potentially at risk for needing
23 transportation.
24 Now, that information from the GAO was
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1 being used by our Congress's committee to
2 look at funding for the Older Americans Act.
3 And the House of Representatives has
4 recommended that for the first of five
5 years -- something's broken with the clock.
6 (Laughter.)
7 MS. MYERS: For the first of five
8 years there needs to be a 7 percent increase,
9 and 6 percent increases in the years that
10 follow.
11 We have recommendations on capacity
12 and reporting, we have recommendations on
13 increasing the home-care worker shortage,
14 initiatives, and ask for a $15 million
15 investment over three years.
16 We have concerns about the
17 long-term-care ombudsman program. There was
18 a 37 percent decrease in volunteers in that
19 program.
20 And then on the last two issues --
21 very, very quickly, sorry -- we have
22 proposals that we will talk to the Health
23 Committees, Ways and Means, and Finance about
24 on how to achieve some savings on the
298
1 Medicaid side of the budget by expanding the
2 Medicare savings program and also by
3 improving eligibility requirements. The
4 State of Louisiana took one option and saved
5 $2 million per year, so we think there are
6 some savings to be had there that would
7 improve benefits for seniors.
8 And we ask you to look at the EPIC
9 program to improve the transparency and
10 accountability surrounding the programmatic
11 changes, because there have been some
12 things -- including our concern about the
13 second year of a proposed cut in the program
14 where there have been benefits that have been
15 cut within EPIC -- that we would like to see
16 restored.
17 Thank you. Sorry.
18 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you. You
19 were very comprehensive. We have no
20 questions.
21 You've got to talk faster next year,
22 Gail.
23 (Laughter.)
24 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
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1 Next we will have UJA-Federation of
2 New York.
3 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Sorry. Sorry.
4 We have a question.
5 Chair Rachel May.
6 SENATOR MAY: Thank you, Gail. And
7 thank you for mentioning the Home Care Jobs
8 Innovation Fund. I think that's an important
9 one.
10 I wanted to follow up about the
11 hearing we had about SNAP and low-income
12 New Yorkers. But we talked a lot about the
13 senior issues, and most of what came out of
14 that hearing -- because we held it before the
15 federal government cut those benefits, and
16 basically what everyone was saying is we've
17 got to make sure the federal government
18 doesn't do that. And that was basically the
19 outcome of that hearing. But they did it
20 anyway.
21 So are you already seeing any results
22 from that? And what should we be doing? It
23 was very frustrating to come out of that and
24 say all we can do is stop the federal
300
1 government from doing this.
2 MS. MYERS: Well, there could be an
3 investment -- when I look at this, I look at
4 it from a senior perspective, because that's
5 the population that we deal with mostly. But
6 of course this affects children and everybody
7 in New York State.
8 But from a senior perspective, I think
9 that an investment increase in what's called
10 the WIN program within Aging, which is
11 wellness and nutrition, would help to offset
12 some of the food insecurity that we're seeing
13 among seniors. Calls that we're getting --
14 what we find is that the anxiety level raised
15 in a very large way as a result of the
16 potential for federal cuts -- I haven't
17 gotten calls recently about people saying "I
18 don't have the benefits that I need," but we
19 do get calls to say "Where can I go for
20 food?"
21 SENATOR MAY: Okay. Thank you.
22 And then the one other thing I wanted
23 to ask about was -- oh, the 7 percent
24 increase that you recommend for over what the
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1 core NYSOFA programs -- how is 7 percent
2 arrived at? Why is that the amount?
3 MS. MYERS: Well, we felt that the GAO
4 was a pretty good source and that was what
5 U.S. House of Representatives used as their
6 source for making a recommendation that the
7 federal government should invest 7 percent
8 followed by 6 percent in each of the four
9 consecutive years.
10 So I guess I figured if it was good
11 enough for the House of Representatives, it
12 was good enough for statewide as an initial
13 recommendation, knowing how tight money is.
14 We think that should be a minimum and that
15 you should continue to grow these services
16 across the board, year after year. So we
17 followed the federal recommendation of the
18 house.
19 SENATOR MAY: Okay, great. Thank you
20 very much.
21 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Assemblyman
22 Bronson.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: Gail -- and you
24 thought you were going to get away. In your
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1 materials you have a couple of sections that
2 talk about Medicaid. And as you know, one of
3 the most serious issues we're going to face
4 during the budget is the Medicaid situation.
5 And I use "situation" intentionally.
6 Could you share with us how we in the
7 area of serving older New Yorkers, how can we
8 work toward Medicaid savings in particular?
9 And, you know, the connection between
10 Medicaid and Medicare and your services of
11 getting people on benefits -- if you wouldn't
12 mind, just outline for us how we can address
13 Medicaid and help that benefit our system as
14 we move forward.
15 MS. MYERS: All right. Well, I think
16 there's two areas that I would point to. One
17 is the CMS has already made recommendations
18 to the states on how they can improve their
19 eligibility and processing of people who have
20 the Medicare Savings Program. That is funded
21 in part by our state Medicaid and the local
22 social services districts doing the work.
23 So the first would be: Achieve all
24 the savings you can by streamlining and
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1 improving that process, which would also stop
2 people from the churning off-cycle by having
3 to reapply and so on. First thing.
4 And the second thing, we think that
5 most people come to the Offices for Aging
6 when they are beginning to enter a crisis
7 situation. I need this, how do I get it?
8 And there's a lot more that can be done,
9 number one, to prevent moving into that
10 crisis situation through programs that the
11 offices offer.
12 But also, in terms of averting that
13 crisis mentality, we need to let people know
14 that the services are there. People don't
15 know -- they call our office, they call our
16 hotline, and we're speaking to them and we
17 refer them back to their county Offices for
18 Aging -- who are doing great work. People
19 just don't know: Oh, that's available to me?
20 Oh, that's how I would get that?
21 And we do educate people earlier on
22 and do more outreach, which we think we need
23 for all of our programs. That should
24 delay -- it should keep people healthier and
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1 we hope should delay Medicaid eligibility or
2 their crisis where they enter into a hospital
3 and then never go home.
4 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: Okay. And we
5 have less than a minute, but on the EPIC
6 program, what is your suggestion on how we
7 expand EPIC so more seniors can take
8 advantage of that?
9 MS. MYERS: Well, there are two pieces
10 that have happened this year. One is a new
11 application which requires a lot of detailed
12 information that was not previously required.
13 It is going to, we think, be a disincentive
14 for people to enroll in EPIC. So we'd like
15 you to fix that.
16 The other thing is rather than using
17 the line of the Governor's cut, to restore
18 that money and then to start lowering the age
19 of EPIC eligibility from 65 down, so that
20 people as they are entering seniorhood are
21 coming in with the resources that they need.
22 Everyone on EPIC, everyone on Medicare, which
23 is including the persons with disabilities
24 population, should have the same benefit, and
305
1 we'd like to see that expanded to everyone.
2 There are some bracket changes that
3 could be made. The regs on EPIC allow a
4 cost-of-living adjustment, which has not been
5 made in recent memory. Things like not
6 throwing someone off because they have just a
7 little bit more money because they've gotten
8 a COLA increase in their pension or Social
9 Security.
10 So there are numerous
11 recommendations --
12 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: Right.
13 MS. MYERS: -- but we'd like to see
14 more transparency and accountability in the
15 system. There used to be a consumer advisory
16 panel that doesn't exist anymore. That would
17 help bring in more seniors into the program.
18 And the program has declined significantly in
19 their outreach, from nine outreach workers in
20 the past to I think three now across the
21 entire state. People don't know about the
22 program, that it's there for them.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: Thank you.
24 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
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1 MS. MYERS: Can I leave this time?
2 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Now you can
3 leave. We're not going to call you back.
4 (Laughter.)
5 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Ariel
6 Savransky, advocacy and policy advisor,
7 UJA-Federation.
8 MS. SAVRANSKY: Good afternoon. Thank
9 you for the opportunity to testify. I'm just
10 going to touch on a few points from my
11 testimony as you have the full, longer
12 testimony in front of you.
13 On behalf of UJA-Federation of
14 New York, our network of nonprofit partners
15 and those we serve, thank you for the
16 opportunity to testify on the importance of
17 maintaining and expanding support for the
18 human services sector.
19 Established more than 100 years ago,
20 UJA is one of the nation's largest local
21 philanthropies. We support a network of
22 nearly 100 nonprofit organizations serving
23 those that are the most vulnerable and in
24 need of programs and services.
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1 UJA's network of nonprofit partners
2 delivers programs, services, and resources
3 that support the well being of all
4 New Yorkers across their lifespan. However,
5 while New York's economy has been growing
6 steadily since 2008, state funding for the
7 human services sector has been cut by
8 26 percent. This leaves a lot of our
9 partners unable to provide the services that
10 vulnerable individuals need.
11 We make the following recommendations
12 for investments in this year's state budget,
13 including a 3 percent increase on all human
14 services contracts and rates for the next
15 five years; allocating $100 million in
16 recurring funds to the Nonprofit
17 Infrastructure Capital Investment Program;
18 and expanding State and Municipal Facilities
19 Program eligibility guidelines to include
20 nonprofit organizations.
21 Additionally, Medicaid has been
22 discussed a lot. While the Medicaid Redesign
23 Team has been tasked with identifying
24 $2.5 billion in savings to the state, should
308
1 that not be achieved, it is critical that
2 nonprofit providers are held harmless.
3 I also want to touch on Holocaust
4 survivors. New York State is home to nearly
5 40,000 Holocaust survivors. Forty percent of
6 them live below the poverty level. As
7 New York continues to support its immigrant
8 communities and address the rise in
9 antisemitism and hate crimes, it is
10 imperative that we not leave Holocaust
11 survivors behind. We appreciate the
12 investment of $400,000 in last year's budget,
13 but more must be done. We ask the state to
14 invest $5 million to fund care, services, and
15 resources for Holocaust survivors living in
16 poverty.
17 Along those same lines, we appreciate
18 the inclusion of $25 million to support the
19 safety and security projects for at-risk
20 facilities. We request that eligibility
21 guidelines for this funding be expanded to
22 all nonprofits that are at risk due to their
23 beliefs or ideology, including houses of
24 worship. This will provide a broader
309
1 understanding of statewide community
2 vulnerabilities and ensure that all
3 nonprofits are protected from hate-based
4 attacks.
5 Next I want to talk about the Summer
6 Youth Employment Program. We thank you for
7 the proposal to provide a $1 million increase
8 for SYEP to cover the minimum wage increase.
9 However, as Senator Savino brought up
10 earlier, there is an issue with the
11 Article VII language that was enacted by the
12 '19-'20 budget that implemented new,
13 comprehensive background checks for both new
14 and current employees at school-aged
15 childcare licensed programs statewide, and
16 this includes SYEP programs. Because of
17 these new regulations, there is a huge
18 backlog in the processing of these background
19 checks, and it often takes months for a
20 background check to be -- to go through. For
21 a six-week program, which is what SYEP is,
22 this creates real barriers to ensuring that
23 these programs can be staffed and that these
24 kids can have the opportunity to participate
310
1 in the program.
2 Before the regulations were in place,
3 providers waited only two weeks for completed
4 background checks. Due to the complexity of
5 the new background checks, OCFS and local
6 registrars require additional resources and
7 staff to be able to perform the background
8 checks in a timely manner. Providers also
9 require more guidance on the background check
10 process, specifically on how to properly stop
11 their program if the process is not expedited
12 by the time the SYEP students have to start
13 their job placements.
14 And lastly, I just want to talk about
15 food insecurity for a second. UJA
16 appreciates the inclusion of a new initiative
17 to reduce food insecurity among college
18 students that Commissioner Hein mentioned in
19 his testimony earlier today. This will
20 really ensure that we can combat food
21 insecurity on these campuses. We urge OTDA
22 to ensure that the policy is changed in this
23 budget cycle. And we also urge the state to
24 consider ways to expand this to all college
311
1 students, as food insecurity is a real
2 problem, not just in community colleges.
3 I also want to emphasize what my
4 colleagues who spoke before me said about
5 increasing WIN funding, which is another way
6 to combat -- to reduce Medicaid costs as
7 well.
8 And then, just along the lines of the
9 SNAP attacks on the federal level, we have
10 already started to see the reducing -- people
11 reducing their use of SNAP benefits and thus
12 relying more on food pantries, so that is
13 something that we really need to make sure to
14 fill some of those gaps.
15 Thank you for the opportunity to
16 testify, and I'm happy to take any questions.
17 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
18 Thank you for being here today.
19 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
20 MS. SAVRANSKY: Thank you.
21 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Next we have
22 the Association on Aging in New York, Rebecca
23 Preve. (Pause.)
24 Okay. I'm sorry, yes, please go
312
1 ahead.
2 MS. PREVE: Good afternoon. I wanted
3 to say thank you to members of the
4 Legislature for holding such an important
5 hearing.
6 My name is Becky Preve, and I'm the
7 executive director at the Association on
8 Aging in New York. Our membership contains
9 the 59 local area agencies on aging,
10 otherwise known to you as Offices for the
11 Aging -- I know there's at times confusion.
12 Out mission is to support and enhance the
13 Offices for the Aging to promote
14 independence, preserve dignity, and advocate
15 on behalf of older New Yorkers.
16 We serve a large number of people, and
17 we serve in four different categories. So
18 our first category is really active older
19 New Yorkers. We provide volunteer
20 opportunities. They engage in our senior
21 centers for health promotion activities. We
22 also touch those with small needs -- so
23 individuals that may need help with their
24 Medicare, they may need some counseling
313
1 services, they might need to get enrolled in
2 new plans, and they're kind of a soft touch
3 in our community.
4 We also serve the high-risk frail
5 elderly. And so Commissioner Olsen spoke to
6 this; under our core programs and services,
7 we're typically serving clients at very high
8 needs, early eighties, single females that
9 live alone who have real deficits in being
10 able to bathe, dress, go to the grocery
11 store, et cetera. We also have a very strong
12 caregiver support program and provide respite
13 services.
14 I want to kind of start the
15 conversation by doing a level set on this
16 aging population, and I think Commissioner
17 Olsen also spoke to this. So this population
18 has a huge social, intellectual, and economic
19 footprint in New York State. New York State
20 is fourth in the nation as far as our aging
21 population, and in 2015 we had 3.6 million
22 people over the age of 60. By 2040, we're
23 going to be looking at 5.6 million in that
24 category. By 2025, 86 percent of counties in
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1 New York State will have a population that's
2 25 percent or more over the age of 60.
3 Again, this population contributes
4 enormously across our service spectrum. The
5 50+ Longevity Economy indicates that the
6 population over 50 represents $9 trillion in
7 economic and unpaid activities from 2018.
8 That's going to triple to $28 trillion by
9 2050. What that means for New York State is
10 that individuals over the age of 45
11 contribute $379 billion per year to our
12 economic situation. That's 63 percent of the
13 income in New York State from this
14 population.
15 Their volunteerism is worth over
16 $13 billion per year, and their unpaid
17 caregiving has a value of about $32 billion
18 to the state. This kind of lays the
19 framework for why New Yorkers really deserve
20 the care and services that we're able to
21 provide them, and it's also the reason that
22 I'm here today to ask for an ongoing
23 commitment to our aging network.
24 The $15 million in last year's budget
315
1 allowed my members to bring older adults
2 services that were on waiting lists, some
3 from two months to three years. That meant
4 home-delivered meals, transportation,
5 personal care services, and other vital
6 services to our economic drivers in New York
7 State.
8 My membership also shared kind of a
9 deep data dive, so we looked into actual case
10 files. And out of the 2,200 case files that
11 we looked at, 10 percent of those individuals
12 went directly to a skilled nursing facility
13 under the Medicaid benefit; another 9 percent
14 went to MLTC plans or traditional Medicaid
15 coverage.
16 Again, if you look at that from an
17 economic standpoint, the state's share of
18 Medicaid on those people is over $60 million
19 per year, so very, very significant
20 statistics.
21 What I'm asking for this year is the
22 fact that my membership have reported to me
23 ongoing waitlist issues. And so what that
24 means is that the waitlist was a snapshot in
316
1 time, we had that data from a few years back,
2 but that doesn't mean our waitlists stop. So
3 people continually come on our waitlists and
4 the membership reports that, and we currently
5 have a large sum back on our waiting lists.
6 So the ask behind the 19.5 million in
7 my testimony is directly tied to the
8 9,000-plus people we have identified on
9 waitlists, and the calculation is based on
10 what a unit of service costs for that
11 individual. So there's metrics behind the
12 ask.
13 I also took a deep look at our CSE
14 budget, and I know that there's been asks for
15 an increase in that. Again, I really feel
16 that we have clients behind these numbers,
17 and so we do ask for a $53 million investment
18 in CSE. And that's for two things.
19 Number one is targeted case
20 management. So the people that receive our
21 home-care services and case management, those
22 are exactly those very high risk, frail
23 individuals who qualify for a skilled nursing
24 facility placement. Right now, on average,
317
1 they get one hour of case management per
2 month. And again, with the issues that we
3 see with the older population, one hour
4 really is not sufficient to meet the needs.
5 So 10 million could bump that to two hours of
6 case management.
7 The additional funding again goes
8 directly to our personal care program, so the
9 home health aides that assist with bathing,
10 toileting, dressing, feeding -- and our
11 average client only gets 4.6 hours per week.
12 The Medicaid system usually authorizes
13 20-plus. So the ask behind that investment
14 would be directly for increasing our
15 home-care hours from the typical 4.6 to an
16 average of 10 for New York State.
17 Our services and supports are
18 predicated on keeping people off
19 Medicaid-covered services, and yet our
20 funding has remained relatively stagnant. We
21 provide services that keep people living in
22 their homes and support the population that
23 is the economic support New York State
24 thrives on.
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1 I would like to thank all of you for
2 your time, and I welcome any questions.
3 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
4 Any Assembly? Assemblymember Bronson.
5 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: Thank you.
6 I've talked about this earlier with
7 other witnesses. But your numbers show that
8 an average cost in the nursing home is
9 $150,000 annually for an individual, whereas
10 if we have a community-based services for
11 individuals who would qualify to go into a
12 nursing home, those costs are $6,300
13 annually.
14 Tie that to the fact that even though
15 with the $15 million we addressed --
16 whatever, I can't remember what it was, the
17 2017 or 2018 waitlist -- but now you have
18 identified somewheres above 9,000 people on
19 the waitlist. How -- in those kind of
20 savings, if we can keep people at home, safe
21 with a quality of life, how does that impact
22 on Medicaid -- and shouldn't we be talking
23 about that, number one?
24 And then, number two, do consumers
319
1 have a voice on the Medicaid Redesign Team
2 II? Do -- you know, are agencies like yours,
3 is there a voice there for Medicaid Redesign
4 Team II? I mean, we need voices to make this
5 argument as we're making the decision between
6 now and April.
7 MS. PREVE: Absolutely. I couldn't
8 agree more.
9 And I can tell you our population is
10 traditionally non-Medicaid, and our services
11 and supports -- you know, they don't last a
12 month or two. So we're keeping people out of
13 skilled nursing facilities for years.
14 So the aggregate cost savings that I
15 quoted, that's only for one year of the cost
16 savings. So if you look at someone on the
17 EISEP program that we've kept on for
18 three years, you know, you triple that
19 amount.
20 And so, you know, as far as the
21 MRT II, I absolutely feel that the consumer
22 and advocate portion of New York State needs
23 to be included in that conversation, and I
24 absolutely think, again, in the climate of
320
1 Medicaid that we're looking at right now, our
2 services are tried and true and they're
3 proven that they absolutely can keep people
4 off Medicaid.
5 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: Thank you very
6 much.
7 MS. PREVE: You're welcome.
8 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
9 Senator May.
10 (Mic problems.)
11 SENATOR MAY: Thank you, Rebecca.
12 I just have one quick question. Of
13 the 9,000 number that you have of people on
14 the waiting list, how does that compare to
15 what it was before the $15 million was put
16 in? How many people came off the waiting
17 list as a result of the investment?
18 MS. PREVE: So we were actually able
19 to get over what we anticipated off the
20 waitlist. So it was over 8,000 that came
21 off. And I think the 9,000 that we now have
22 on is a combination of numerous things. I
23 think it's value-based payments.
24 So people are really looking, from the
321
1 healthcare sector, on getting people on
2 services sooner. So our referrals from
3 hospitals and the physician base have
4 absolutely increased, and then our
5 NY Connects program has grown enormously. We
6 have a very large online presence now, so
7 people definitely are coming to our services
8 at an earlier time. And I think there was a
9 lot of press involved with the historic
10 investment that we received, and so people
11 really were in tune to the fact that our
12 services absolutely could help their loved
13 ones.
14 So, you know, as the aging population
15 continues to grow, our waitlists are going to
16 continue to grow just because of the basis of
17 the population that we're serving.
18 SENATOR MAY: So Gail Myers testified
19 that we're maybe not doing the best job of
20 getting the word out about what the services
21 are that are available. Can you say what you
22 find is working and what is needed in order
23 to make it work better?
24 MS. PREVE: I definitely think that
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1 social media has played a huge role. Our
2 membership has absolutely started advertising
3 their services on Facebook, tweeting, those
4 types of things, so I think we're catching
5 maybe the younger caregivers that might not
6 use traditional ways of getting information.
7 And I think our NY Connects marketing plan
8 has been very successful.
9 And again, it's one of those things
10 that there are many times where people don't
11 want to plan or think about the future when
12 they do have needs, and so some people kind
13 of put blinders up until they're in that
14 crisis mode.
15 SENATOR MAY: Okay. Thank you very
16 much.
17 MS. PREVE: You're welcome.
18 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
19 Senator Sue Serino.
20 (Mic problems.)
21 SENATOR SERINO: Hello. Sorry about
22 that. I can't get the mic to work.
23 But I just have to commend you on the
24 incredibly thorough testimony that you put
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1 here today. If my colleagues haven't gotten
2 a chance to look this over, it's amazing.
3 You really break it down for us, and I really
4 appreciate it.
5 And in here you rightly point out that
6 our senior population will virtually double
7 in the next 20 years, and keeping our seniors
8 here will be vital to our economic viability.
9 I completely agree.
10 So I wanted to start by talking about
11 the CSE funds. A couple of people have
12 mentioned it already, and you know we were
13 excited to get the $15 million, but what do
14 you see? Do you think that we're going to
15 need more money? Like you talked about doing
16 more on social media, and more -- you know,
17 you're hitting other people, maybe a little
18 bit younger, too, than notoriously {sic}
19 would take the money. And if you think we do
20 need more, do you have any idea of an amount?
21 MS. PREVE: Of the CSE funds?
22 SENATOR SERINO: CSE.
23 MS. PREVE: So the CSE -- that's
24 included in the testimony. It might not just
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1 be laid out --
2 SENATOR SERINO: Oh, maybe I'm --
3 okay.
4 MS. PREVE: But the CSE ask that we
5 came up with of the 53 million, I felt it was
6 really important to have data behind that
7 number, to have a specific ask, because I
8 think that's beneficial for you to make
9 decisions.
10 And so that was directly tied to our
11 highest-risk customers, so those individuals
12 that have three deficits in activities of
13 daily living, three deficits in independent
14 activities of daily living, and four or more
15 chronic conditions. So that was based
16 directly on this population, and the
17 calculation was to double their case
18 management and to essentially double their
19 home care hours per week.
20 SENATOR SERINO: Okay. That's great.
21 And then the other question that I
22 have, because I was really intrigued by your
23 home-care innovation fund that you're
24 proposing in your testimony -- so can you
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1 elaborate a little on your vision for that
2 too?
3 MS. PREVE: Sure. So the home health
4 aide crisis -- in my previous work I was a
5 director of a local AAA, and we actually
6 worked very closely on the home care crisis
7 coalitions. So we did some deep diving into
8 this a while back, and what home health aides
9 had shared with us were a couple of things
10 that could be an easy fix with a pilot
11 project. So it was "New tires for my car" or
12 "A lease" or "I don't have anyone to care for
13 my child if I have a case from 6 to 9 p.m.,
14 because my traditional daycare isn't open."
15 So I think that there's a lot of work that
16 could be done in that space.
17 I think the other thing that was
18 eye-opening for me personally is two of the
19 members of my staff were previously home
20 health aides and went back to school and came
21 out as case managers. And I asked them: If
22 you got paid the same amount of money to do
23 case management or to provide direct care
24 service in the home, which would you choose?
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1 And they both laughed at me and said that
2 they would be direct care workers immediately
3 if they could make the same money.
4 So I think that was kind of
5 eye-opening to me, that if -- you know, if we
6 can look to pilot a higher wage in certain
7 areas and then really prove that those cases
8 didn't go unfilled, again, that's some data
9 to have behind what we're doing. And I think
10 looking at those failed discharges from acute
11 care facilities, or people that are
12 readmitted, would be a really good place to
13 start.
14 SENATOR SERINO: That's a great idea.
15 I love it. Thank you.
16 MS. PREVE: Thank you.
17 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
18 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
19 MS. PREVE: Thank you very much.
20 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Next we have
21 Schuyler Center for Analysis and Advocacy,
22 Dede Hill and Crystal Charles.
23 MS. HILL: Hi. Good afternoon. Thank
24 you for this opportunity to testify.
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1 Since 1872, the Schuyler Center has
2 been advocating to strengthen public systems
3 that serve low-income and disenfranchised
4 New Yorkers, particularly children and
5 families.
6 First I'd like to just make some
7 general observations and create some context
8 around this Executive Budget. While this
9 Executive Budget contains some important
10 proposals and new investments that will
11 benefit children and families, it is not a
12 budget that puts children and families first.
13 It's not a budget that, if enacted as is,
14 will meaningfully reduce New York's high rate
15 of child poverty. It is not a budget that
16 will make any progress at all in addressing
17 the state's persistent childcare availability
18 crisis.
19 It appears that when the many proposed
20 cuts are implemented at the county level,
21 including the caps on Medicaid, many New York
22 families that are already facing the
23 obstacles of poverty and systematic racism
24 and ill health and disability, those families
328
1 are going to be set back further.
2 Turning to the specifics of the
3 Executive Budget, there are a few issues that
4 I want to highlight. And I promise I'm not
5 going to go through everything in our
6 testimony, but there are a few things.
7 First I want to just touch on
8 something that is not in the budget, but we
9 think that all New Yorkers -- and we'd like
10 your leadership in leading New York -- should
11 make a public, binding commitment to cutting
12 child poverty in half by 2030. We think
13 New York has -- our child poverty rate has
14 sort of lingered around 20 percent for more
15 than a decade, and if we do not make a public
16 commitment and if we don't sort of start down
17 the path of incrementally reducing child
18 poverty, we will never tackle this problem.
19 So let's do this this year.
20 Turning to child welfare, there are a
21 number of proposals in this Executive Budget
22 that we applaud. The kinship firewall is a
23 really important step. Blind removals, this
24 is really going to move this state towards
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1 addressing its overrepresentation of black
2 and brown children in the state's foster-care
3 system. These are important steps.
4 But we do have some concerns. I want
5 to turn your attention to an issue that
6 Senator Persaud has raised in her questions
7 about -- there are cuts to the preventive
8 protective funding stream. They're kind of
9 hard to discern in the budget. But what it
10 looks like is done is there is a proposed
11 $40 million cut to the TANF Flexible Fund for
12 Family Services. These are funds that we
13 understand counties use in a variety of ways,
14 including to support senior services, to
15 support childcare in some counties, to
16 support child welfare in some counties. So
17 this is a $40 million cut that will deliver a
18 $25 million savings to the state. It has to
19 be transferred over to preventive services.
20 We're also concerned that this may
21 mean that counties utilize their preventive
22 services a little bit less because they have
23 to draw down more county funds before they
24 can access those preventive services.
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1 We really want to draw attention to
2 this. I don't think it's on a lot of
3 people's radars, and we are -- it's of deep
4 concern to us. And it reminds us of
5 something that happened in 2017. There was a
6 proposal to shift $20 million in Title XX
7 funds and move them to childcare. We raised
8 the alarm about that, and we actually
9 reversed that. We hope you will do that
10 again this year.
11 In the area of foster care, we're very
12 excited and pleased that there is continued
13 support for the Family First Transition Fund,
14 but we want to see some more investment this
15 year.
16 One other thing -- my time is running
17 out there -- there is no new funding in this
18 budget for childcare. We have -- the
19 Governor convened a childcare availability
20 task force a year ago. It's been working
21 hard, it has made some -- it is contemplating
22 some very ambitious proposals. But even as
23 the task force is taking, you know, a
24 half-step forward and doing some really good
331
1 thinking, the childcare system is crumbling
2 around us.
3 We are moving backwards, and so we are
4 going to be starting at a deficit when we
5 finally get recommendations a year from now.
6 So we urge investment in childcare this year.
7 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
8 Assemblywoman Jaffee.
9 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: Yes. The task
10 force, which I created and has been moving
11 forward, has really something we're going to
12 be meeting on to discuss their
13 recommendations, because I think that they
14 are recognizing that there are
15 some significant issues that -- of concern.
16 Regarding the childcare funding for
17 the childcare in the state, impacting the
18 children, obviously, and their future and
19 their families, who need to be able to have
20 the children in environments that are very
21 positive while they maintain their jobs and
22 their work, what specific numbers and issues
23 do you see with the budget that the Governor
24 has presented? I have concerns about that
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1 also. Could you provide some details?
2 MS. HILL: Yes. With respect to
3 childcare -- so I think that the headline,
4 the most important message is there is no new
5 state funding for childcare in the Executive
6 Budget. There has been some confusion, some
7 suggestion in the Budget Briefing Book that
8 the child tax credit proposal which -- and I
9 want to be clear, we're very supportive.
10 There is a proposal to expand the
11 state's current child tax credit, which
12 currently omits children under the age of 4,
13 to expand the credit to include them, as it
14 should. It's a child tax credit, it's
15 designed to offset the high cost of raising
16 children, it should include young children.
17 However, the child tax credit is not
18 designed nor is it robust enough to be an
19 answer to the childcare crisis. At most, it
20 will provide a family between -- an extra
21 $333 a year in income. Again, this can be
22 critical for a low-income family; if they
23 have a car that is not working, they can fix
24 it, they can go to work. It's a critical
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1 step in efforts to reduce child poverty, but
2 it is not a solution to the childcare crisis.
3 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: And the other
4 issue is workers in childcare. There is --
5 as I noted earlier, there is a very real
6 issue in terms of having the availability of
7 workers who can provide assistance and work
8 within the childcare programs. Is that
9 something that you see of concern as well?
10 MS. HILL: Yes. So the other piece of
11 the childcare puzzle is that while childcare
12 is unaffordable for most New York families --
13 it costs an average of $15,000 a year -- at
14 the same time, the childcare workforce is
15 very underpaid. Most of the -- 60 percent of
16 the workforce actually has to rely on some
17 sort of public assistance, because they are
18 paid wages that are that low.
19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: So we need
20 to -- you know, certainly, thank you. So we
21 need to certainly move forward in terms of
22 getting -- having the Governor provide more
23 funds for our childcare program and to be
24 able to also expand the opportunities for the
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1 salaries for our childcare workers so that we
2 are able to have that kind of availability in
3 programs to ensure that all of our children
4 are in positive environments.
5 But thank you.
6 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you
7 for --
8 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: Thank you so
9 much.
10 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you for
11 being here.
12 MS. HILL: Thank you.
13 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Next we have
14 the Council of Family and Child Care
15 Agencies, followed by Early Care and Learning
16 Council, followed by New York State Network
17 for Youth Success.
18 MS. BRADY-STEPIEN: Good afternoon.
19 Thank you for the opportunity to testify.
20 My name is Kathleen Brady-Stepien, and
21 I'm the associate executive director of the
22 Council of Family and Child Care Agencies, or
23 COFCCA. We represent the more than 100 child
24 welfare organizations around the state.
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1 We were very disappointed not to see
2 more of a commitment to our human services
3 programs in this Executive Budget proposal.
4 We are proud to partner with our
5 fellow human services organizations around
6 the state to bring one single unified ask
7 before you this year, and it's called #3for5.
8 It's a request for a 3 percent increase in
9 our rate in funding for our human services
10 programs over the next five years. We
11 believe that this would go a long way towards
12 acknowledging a sector that has been ignored
13 in our state budget for far too long, and we
14 believe this would also go a long way toward
15 allowing us to recruit and retain the best
16 possible workforce for New York State human
17 services programs.
18 What is our New York State budget,
19 after all, if not a statement of New Yorkers'
20 values and priorities? And human services
21 programs around the state are very important
22 for New Yorkers should they need to access
23 them.
24 Turning to the foster-care workforce
336
1 now specifically, we have just updated our
2 turnover and our salary information in a
3 survey that we do of all of our agencies, and
4 we know that our salaries remain far too low
5 to be competitive. We're competing with fast
6 food establishments for our front-line staff,
7 and we have a 41 percent turnover in our
8 front-line childcare workers. We have a
9 38 percent turnover for our caseworkers
10 around the state.
11 This is unacceptable because, as was
12 brought up earlier, every time one of our
13 workers departs a program, it is the loss of
14 a relationship that a young person in foster
15 care has built with a caring adult that
16 they've come to rely on every day, that they
17 go to with their challenges and successes.
18 And we simply must do better on behalf of our
19 kids to stabilize our workforce.
20 And we will be coming around to all of
21 you for your help in driving an increase to
22 the foster-care rate, which is set,
23 post-budget, administratively between DOB and
24 OCFS. Your partnership has been completely
337
1 invaluable over the last couple of years in
2 helping us to make sure that we have an
3 increase in our main mechanism to provide
4 salary increases to our foster-care staff.
5 We're also asking for your help in
6 growing two programs that are actually
7 higher ed programs for our child welfare
8 staff. There is one that is focused on loan
9 forgiveness for our child welfare workers and
10 another one focused on tuition support for
11 our child welfare staff. Those programs are
12 in the Executive Budget at 50,000 each. We
13 are appreciative of that, but we are asking
14 for $1 million for each one of those
15 programs.
16 HESC just made the first round of
17 these awards this past fall, and we
18 understand that there was just enough funding
19 to hand out four awards around the state.
20 And so while that's a handful of childcare
21 workers and childcare staff around the state
22 that are benefiting from those programs, we
23 know that the need is far greater, and we ask
24 for your help on that.
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1 We are going to be implementing the
2 federal Family First Act this next fall in
3 our child welfare field, and it's hard to
4 understate how much change that's going to
5 bring to our field. There's also a lot of
6 opportunity in it, and we are really excited
7 about the opportunity to work together with
8 OCFS and with our other partners in the
9 counties on making sure that kids in foster
10 care are in family-based settings whenever
11 possible.
12 It's just that there is some very
13 ambitious Article VII language that has been
14 included on the independent assessor, and we
15 have some serious concerns that if this
16 particular part of the language, which has
17 the independent assessor ultimately making
18 the placement decision -- there are some
19 safety concerns that brings up.
20 What if the local district is actually
21 unable to find another placement within the
22 30 days, as is written in the ELFA language?
23 And we don't understand why this independent
24 assessor has been given so much power to, it
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1 seems, override the judgment of a judge and
2 other local district commissioner who, at the
3 end of the day, is ultimately responsible for
4 the safety of the young people in his or her
5 care.
6 And also there have been no details
7 established on this independent assessor role
8 yet, which is a brand-new invention of the
9 federal act. And so we think that this is
10 really asking the Legislature to, you know,
11 sign off on this before we have all of the
12 details needed to understand the proposal in
13 full. So we're asking for your help in just
14 making sure that that language makes sense
15 for the system that we need.
16 We know that we need to invest a lot
17 more in building the amount of foster homes
18 that we need and supporting our kinship
19 caregivers around the state, and the amount
20 of transition funding that's in the budget is
21 just simply not enough to do that yet, so
22 we're asking for your help with that as well.
23 Thank you for the opportunity to
24 testify.
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1 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
2 Assemblyman Ra.
3 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Thank you.
4 Good afternoon. I just had a couple
5 of questions.
6 In terms of the share for special
7 education placement, can you tell us about
8 what the impact was when that shift was made
9 in New York City? Just, you know, in terms
10 of what we can expect it's going to have on
11 the system and the rest of the state if this
12 was to go through.
13 MS. BRADY-STEPIEN: Thank you for that
14 question. Our understanding is that it
15 hasn't had too much of an impact on the
16 number of placements that were made from the
17 New York City School District when the shift
18 went through a couple of years ago at the
19 New York City level.
20 You know, ultimately it is up to the
21 school district to make the best decision on
22 behalf of the young people that they see
23 before them. I think what's important to
24 point out is that, as Senator Krueger brought
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1 up before, this is something that was done to
2 New York City a couple of years ago in the
3 budget, and here we're hearing in this year
4 that it is now parity, that it's going to be
5 carried out statewide.
6 And so, you know, the impact on the
7 school districts -- it seems like it's about
8 25 million that they're picking up this
9 share, and we are trying to figure out some
10 data in terms of answering your question on
11 what kind of impact there was in New York
12 City.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: I mean, I'd assume
14 with any cost shift to a municipality,
15 obviously, you know, it has an impact on
16 their budgeting. And outside of New York
17 City, with the tax cap and things of that
18 nature, it makes it that much more difficult.
19 And obviously you're dealing with independent
20 school districts that are much smaller as
21 well.
22 One other issue I wanted to ask you
23 about, the ELFA language and Family First. I
24 think what I'm getting is that this really
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1 goes further than the federal government is
2 really asking us to go; is that correct?
3 MS. BRADY-STEPIEN: It does. And just
4 that one particular part of it which has the
5 requirement that the local district would
6 have to remove the young person out of the
7 QRTP within 30 days -- that's not required by
8 federal law. So OCFS and the Executive
9 Budget are going far and above that with this
10 proposal, yes.
11 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Thank you.
12 MS. BRADY-STEPIEN: Thank you.
13 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Senator Savino.
14 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you, Senator
15 Krueger.
16 Good to see you again.
17 I just want to make this point,
18 because we've had this discussion before.
19 You heard me speak earlier today about my
20 concerns about the human service workforce.
21 But just in case people think I'm
22 exaggerating, the starting salary for a
23 caseworker in the nonprofit sector with a
24 bachelor's degree is $36,994. The starting
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1 salary for an ACS worker in the City of
2 New York with the same bachelor's degree is
3 $49,279. That number jumps to $53,519 if
4 they complete six months of probation and
5 they are moved up to the next level, Child
6 Protective Specialist Level 2. If you become
7 a brand-new youth development specialist in
8 the City of New York -- those are the workers
9 who now service the Raise the Age program --
10 they walk in the door at $46,000.
11 So this gap between the nonprofit and
12 the public sector is growing further and
13 further apart every year. And so I join you
14 in your support calling for the establishment
15 of a real fund to provide social work loan
16 forgiveness, because these agencies are not
17 going to be able to recruit anybody or retain
18 them, and it has -- as you know, it has a
19 terrible effect on young people.
20 And for those people who think these
21 kids don't know the difference, I have not
22 been a full-time caseworker since 1996. I
23 still have young people who were on my
24 caseload who call me, oftentimes in crisis,
344
1 because they don't forget the people who made
2 a difference in their life. And so when
3 they're separated again or there's disruption
4 again, it doubly traumatizes them.
5 So I totally support the idea of
6 expanding the current social work loan
7 forgiveness program to the nonprofit sector,
8 adding as much money as we can. Thank you.
9 MS. BRADY-STEPIEN: Thank you so much,
10 Senator, for your advocacy and for pointing
11 out the reality in terms of the huge
12 disparity between us and the public sector.
13 And the reality is that we simply
14 cannot compete, and that's what we're
15 finding. And also we're often the training
16 ground, really, for the public sector,
17 because folks are with us for, you know,
18 maybe a few years, they're recent graduates,
19 and then they move on to the public sector.
20 There's more money, there's better benefits,
21 and who can blame them.
22 But as you point out, the importance
23 of that relationship that is built is
24 something that sustains over time. And for
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1 our young people it's one more loss that
2 they're experiencing after they've been
3 through a lot.
4 Thank you.
5 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
6 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Assemblywoman
7 Jaffee.
8 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: Thank you.
9 There's no question you also recognize
10 the difficulty with childcare and
11 affordability in terms of asking the workers
12 as well --
13 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Is your mic on?
14 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: Is it on now?
15 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Yes.
16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: Okay. I'm
17 sorry.
18 The issues of childcare workers and
19 the salaries, the limited salaries they earn,
20 and then with that, the affordability of
21 childcare, you mentioned that within this
22 context. Do you see this continuing at this
23 time? Is it something that we need to
24 address? How soon can we move forward with
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1 that?
2 MS. BRADY-STEPIEN: Yes, and so for
3 us, the parlance of childcare workers refers
4 to our front-line staff working in our
5 residential foster-care programs. And so no
6 question, you know, we have to do more to
7 raise their pay.
8 I think to your question about
9 childcare more globally, my friends from the
10 Schuyler Center just spoke before me, and I
11 completely support everything that they said
12 about the need to invest more in childcare.
13 Because after all, if parents don't have a
14 safe childcare option, their children become
15 at-risk. And so I applaud your efforts and
16 those of your colleagues and certainly my
17 colleagues at the Schuyler Center for
18 everything you're doing to make sure that
19 there's really an investment there.
20 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: We need to be
21 very vocal about that. It's really something
22 essential for our youth and their future. We
23 go into that in so many issues.
24 But there was something that you had
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1 discussed about the safety and living spaces
2 for those in foster care. Could you explain
3 a little bit more about that?
4 MS. BRADY-STEPIEN: Thank you for
5 giving me time to do that. I couldn't fit it
6 into my five minutes.
7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: I know, I just
8 said that for --
9 MS. BRADY-STEPIEN: So we have had a
10 capital proposal the last couple of years.
11 We are asking for an investment from the
12 Legislature for our residential foster-care
13 campuses around the state and group homes and
14 things of that nature.
15 Our foster-care rate was held flat for
16 many years, and our agencies did not have the
17 resources from the state to be able to make
18 those capital investments -- it's things like
19 boilers, roofs, and it's also just making
20 safety investments. We are, in our
21 residential programs, under the jurisdiction
22 of the Justice Center, and the Justice Center
23 often wants to see camera footage of events
24 that occurred, so it's investing in those
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1 cameras also. So we'd like to see 15 million
2 put forward for that.
3 There's been a nonprofit
4 infrastructure capital investment program
5 made in the past. In terms of a couple of
6 years ago, there was about $120 million
7 available for that. We also certainly
8 support larger efforts to put more money into
9 that. That would cover us as well.
10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: We don't really
11 have the time, but the issue regarding the
12 foster-care youth in college -- I've had
13 several come to me and ask for assistance.
14 Once they are out of that foster-care system,
15 they really are left very much with the need
16 and with the inability to have the funding
17 for their college program. So it's something
18 we do need to focus on.
19 MS. BRADY-STEPIEN: Right. We want to
20 go to that program this year. Thank you.
21 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: Yes. Thank
22 you.
23 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
24 Next we have Early Care & Learning
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1 Council, Meredith Chimento, followed by
2 New York State Network For Youth Success,
3 followed by New York State Kinship Navigator,
4 Catholic Family Center. Those folks should
5 start to make their way down. Thank you.
6 MS. CHIMENTO: Good afternoon.
7 I think that one of the hot topics
8 today is the availability of quality
9 affordable childcare in New York State. And
10 I'd like to speak specifically to the role
11 that the childcare resource and referral
12 agencies play in developing quality and
13 affordable childcare.
14 Ten years ago, the Early Care &
15 Learning Council and 35 CCR&R agencies were
16 awarded a continuation of a long-standing
17 contract to serve childcare providers,
18 parents, businesses, and their communities.
19 In 2012, those contracts received a cut. It
20 has remained untouched since then, yet the
21 work of the CCR&Rs continue.
22 A CCR&R's role in the community is
23 multifaceted. It helps parents locate
24 quality childcare, it helps businesses stay
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1 in the community by assisting employees and
2 finding quality care for their children.
3 CCR&Rs also provide a variety of training and
4 intensive technical assistance to assist
5 childcare providers in exceeding standards of
6 quality, best practice, and meeting
7 regulations.
8 This year, as you all know, has been
9 almost the perfect convergence of national
10 and local attention regarding the childcare
11 crisis, its exceedingly high cost, and the
12 underpaid wages that the predominantly
13 woman-based workforce earns. At the same
14 time, the Child Care and Development Block
15 Grant afforded many CCR&Rs and my
16 organization, the Early Care & Learning
17 Council, an opportunity to expand its
18 services towards increasing the quality of
19 infant and toddler care in New York State.
20 Mental health consultants,
21 infant/toddler specialists have been hired
22 and trainings have been developed, all
23 working toward meeting children and the
24 individuals that care for them at a time in
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1 their lives when their neurons are firing,
2 brain cells are developing, and the
3 foundation for an exceptional education is
4 being formed.
5 Yet the workforce responsible for the
6 development of these centers, of the family
7 members and providers who care for our
8 youngest and most vulnerable citizens, are
9 vastly underpaid. We are losing staff to
10 programs where the pay is higher, to state
11 jobs, and to different fields. Over the past
12 three months, at least three long-term,
13 highly qualified, and valued CCR&R staff have
14 left due to insufficient pay.
15 Last year the CCR&Rs in New York State
16 fielded over 40,000 referral calls, delivered
17 37,000 hours of basic technical assistance,
18 and 19,000 hours of intensive technical
19 assistance which helps parents locate care,
20 helps providers increase their skills,
21 knowledge, and behavior.
22 What these figures don't show is the
23 challenges that each of the 35 CCR&Rs face.
24 With flat funding for 10 years, and the cut
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1 to the contracts in 2012, the staff at the
2 CCR&Rs suffer. Many have master's degrees,
3 and many just earn just over minimum wage.
4 The stress that these employees feel and the
5 choices that CCR&Rs have to make are
6 devastating.
7 Next week, over 250 childcare
8 advocates will come here to Albany to carry
9 the ask of the Early Care & Learning Council,
10 Winning Beginning, Empire State Campaign --
11 which you'll hear more about from my fellow
12 advocates. But many CCR&Rs will not be able
13 to attend. They have lost grants, travel and
14 professional development budgets have been
15 cut, and one CCR&R even called us last night
16 so disappointed that they lost another grant,
17 that they aren't able to join their sisters
18 in the Capitol and rally to meet with each of
19 you to tell the successes of our field and
20 the challenges.
21 Sixty percent of New York State has
22 been classified as a childcare desert, which
23 means there's no care within reasonable
24 proximity to a person's home. To address
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1 this issue, the Childcare Availability Task
2 Force has been working diligently for the
3 past year to make recommendations at the
4 conclusion of 2020. Regional Economic
5 Development Councils have been tasked with
6 making childcare a priority, and the
7 aforementioned historic increase in the CCBG
8 grant and its funding of infant/toddler
9 services in New York State, have all laid a
10 foundation for quality care in New York
11 State.
12 However, CCR&Rs will only be able to
13 work with existing providers and new
14 providers by offering boot camps, fiscal
15 management, teaching them how to braid and
16 blend funding, connect to local businesses
17 and chambers to support their growth and
18 ensure their sustainability, if we receive
19 and realize a contract increase. CCR&R
20 staffs have gone for many years without a
21 cost of living adjustment, without an
22 increase, without the ability to care for
23 their own. Some CCR&R staff earn so little
24 that they qualify for childcare subsidies
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1 themselves.
2 I ask each of you to consider the hard
3 work and success potential of these CCR&Rs.
4 We ask you to identify $5 million to account
5 for a lack of COLA which will support the
6 critical work of EC&LC and position ourselves
7 at the ready to meet the needs of the
8 recommendations of the Governor's task force
9 and the Regional Economic Development
10 Councils.
11 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
12 Thank you for being here.
13 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: May I?
14 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Assemblywoman
15 Jaffee.
16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: Yes, I want to
17 thank you for your comments and your focus.
18 The childcare subsidies are truly
19 essential for our families so that they can
20 provide the opportunity for their child to be
21 in an environment, a very positive
22 environment where they are able to maintain
23 their work when they are at that very, very
24 limited of income. It really is essential.
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1 And the after-school programs as well
2 that you note are so important to ensure that
3 our children are in an environment -- it's
4 very positive. It gives them emotional and
5 social skills in a very positive way, and
6 it's something that we need to continue to
7 focus on. And so I thank you for that
8 suggestion, and perhaps we can discuss this
9 as we move forward.
10 MS. CHIMENTO: Absolutely. Thank you
11 for your continued support, as always.
12 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
13 Thank you for being here.
14 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you for
15 being here.
16 MS. CHIMENTO: Thank you.
17 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: As I said, next
18 we have New York State Network for Youth
19 Success. I'm not sure if there's anybody
20 here from New York State Kinship Navigator; I
21 don't think anybody has signed in yet. So
22 then we would have, following this, Services
23 and Advocacy for Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and
24 Transgender Elders, SAGE, followed by
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1 New York State Association of Training and
2 Employment Professionals.
3 So we have Trudy Morgan, policy
4 coordinator. Please proceed.
5 MS. MORGAN: Good afternoon. Thank
6 you for allowing me to testify today. My
7 name is Trudy Morgan, and I'm the policy
8 coordinator of the New York State Network for
9 Youth Success.
10 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Could you pull
11 the mic a little bit closer to your mouth?
12 MS. MORGAN: Is that better now?
13 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Yes.
14 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Okay.
15 MS. MORGAN: So my name is Trudy
16 Morgan, and I'm the policy coordinator for
17 the New York State Network for Youth Success,
18 and I'm here to talk to you about
19 after-school, summer, and expanded learning
20 opportunities.
21 And before I invite you to look at
22 some of the research with me about the
23 crucial impact after-school has on New York
24 State's children, I would like to emphasize
357
1 that I am a testament of why after-school
2 matters. I am where I am today in my role,
3 following my passion, because I was able to
4 participate in several after-school programs
5 that broadened my perspectives as a new
6 immigrant, equipped me with the necessary
7 skills and resources to navigate my
8 academics, and served as a catalyst for my
9 robust interest in policy and advocacy.
10 Evidence shows that after-school
11 programs play a critical role in improving
12 student outcomes. A recent study looked at a
13 broad range of after-school programs across
14 different age groups and focus areas -- such
15 as academics, athletics, and career
16 pathways -- and found significant positive
17 impacts on students. These quality
18 after-school programs support our students to
19 pursue their passions and learn how to take
20 chances and make calculated risks and healthy
21 choices.
22 We also know that our after-school
23 programs do not only help working families
24 build bridges to their children's school day
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1 by offering academic and social supports, but
2 they also help working families maintain
3 their own economic stability at work while
4 knowing their children are safe and engaged.
5 We are pleased that the state has
6 shown an interest in after-school by
7 increasing investments through the Governor's
8 Empire State After-School Program. While we
9 support additional investments in
10 after-school programs from the state, we must
11 ensure that existing funding streams that
12 support currently operating after-school
13 programs are adequately funded as well.
14 Therefore we urge the Legislature to
15 restore funding for the Advantage After
16 School Programs. The Governor's budget
17 proposal of $28 million is a reduction from
18 last year's enacted budget of $33 million.
19 We thank the Legislature for restoring the
20 $5 million cut last year and ask you and urge
21 you to do so again.
22 At least 2,500 students currently
23 enrolled in Advantage programs will be at
24 risk of losing access to their programs if
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1 funding is not restored. We also ask the
2 Legislature to increase Advantage funding by
3 $5.1 million to increase the per-pupil rate
4 to $2,320. This $2,320 would account for the
5 minimum wage increase while holding all other
6 factors related to after-school programs
7 constant, including the number of children
8 served.
9 We also urge the state to restore
10 $1.5 million in funding for the Youth
11 Development Program that was cut from the
12 Executive Budget this year, and also maintain
13 the Governor's proposal to increase funding
14 for Summer Youth Employment by an additional
15 $1 million.
16 On childcare, we also ask the state to
17 invest $40 million to create a fund to
18 increase workforce compensation and improve
19 childcare quality, and another $60 million in
20 the state's childcare subsidy program to
21 expand access to more working families.
22 More than one-third of childcare
23 allows New York to support childcare for
24 school-aged children, including after-school
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1 and summer programs. We also urge the state
2 to reinstate $50,000 in Child Care and
3 Development Block Grant funds to provide
4 technical assistance to Advantage After
5 School Program grantees and other school-age
6 childcare programs around increasing program
7 quality.
8 These funds helped the network create
9 and maintain the Quality Self-Assessment Tool
10 for more than 15 years, which is the quality
11 standards assessment tool created by experts
12 and practitioners in New York State and is
13 recommended for use by all state-funded
14 after-school programs, including the
15 Advantage After School Program, the Empire
16 State After School Program, and the extended
17 learning programs.
18 We also urge the state to invest an
19 additional $1.8 million towards the
20 Educational Incentive Program, for a total
21 funding of $7 million. The Educational
22 Incentive Program provides scholarships to
23 assist childcare providers participating in
24 professional development activities with the
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1 intent to build provider knowledge, skills,
2 and competencies to improve quality childcare
3 in the state.
4 Finally, we request that the state
5 invest 25 percent of any revenue secured
6 through the legalization of adult-use
7 marijuana into after-school programs. In
8 Alaska, which allocated 12.5 percent of
9 revenue from the legalization of recreational
10 marijuana to after-school, data shows that
11 youth who participated in programs just twice
12 a week were 40 percent less likely to use
13 marijuana.
14 I know that after-school works,
15 because I am the return on investment in
16 after-school.
17 In closing, I want you to know we are
18 part of Winning Beginning NY, and we support
19 the coalition's agenda.
20 Thank you for your time, and I am
21 happy to answer any questions.
22 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
23 Assemblywoman Ellen Jaffee.
24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: Yes, I want to
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1 thank you because you are speaking to the
2 very real issues in terms of additional
3 funding for childcare subsidies and so many
4 of the other issues in youth employment and
5 after-school programs.
6 All of those issues that you bring to
7 the table here are so essential for our
8 youth, it really is an investment in their
9 future. And I thank you, and I -- it's
10 something that I stand with, and we know how
11 important it is. So thank you very much.
12 MS. MORGAN: Thank you very much,
13 Assemblymember Jaffee, for your continued
14 support.
15 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: And Senator
16 Roxanne Persaud.
17 SENATOR PERSAUD: Good afternoon.
18 Thank you very much for your advocacy.
19 I just have one question for you. On
20 the Summer Youth Program, you indicate here
21 that the funding -- the additional $1 million
22 of funding will support the additional staff
23 and increase the number of youth that the
24 staff will serve by 750. That's not what our
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1 analysis shows.
2 MS. MORGAN: Yes. That's actually
3 correct. So this was a -- something we
4 confirmed as of last night, that this would
5 go toward the minimum wage increase while
6 holding the number of students served in the
7 Summer Youth Employment constant.
8 SENATOR PERSAUD: Okay. So this -- I
9 just wanted to clarify that this is not --
10 MS. MORGAN: Yes.
11 SENATOR PERSAUD: Thank you very much.
12 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Good for catching
13 the error. Thank you.
14 Thank you very much for being here
15 today.
16 Our next testifier we believe is not
17 here, New York Kinship Navigator. Anybody
18 want to argue differently? Okay.
19 Then -- sorry -- Melissa Sklarz,
20 Services & Advocacy for Gay, Lesbian,
21 Bisexual, Transgender Elders -- or, as we
22 call you, SAGE.
23 MS. SKLARZ: Much simpler.
24 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: And for people
364
1 lining up, next is the New York Association
2 of Training and Employment Professionals,
3 followed by New York State Defenders
4 Association Veterans Defense Program.
5 Hi, Melissa.
6 MS. SKLARZ: Right. Hi, Senator.
7 Okay, so my name is Melissa Sklarz.
8 I'm the SAGE senior government relations
9 strategist. Thank you to the members of the
10 Senate and Assembly for holding this hearing
11 today and allowing me the opportunity to
12 testify on behalf of SAGE.
13 SAGE is the country's first and
14 largest organization dedicated to improving
15 the lives of LGBT elders. Founded in
16 New York City in 1978, SAGE provides services
17 and programs to LGBT older people throughout
18 our five SAGE Centers across the city, four
19 SAGE affiliates here in New York State --
20 including Bay Shore, Hudson Valley, Syracuse,
21 and Rochester -- and a network of affiliates
22 across the United States.
23 Because of thin support networks, LGBT
24 older people need to rely more heavily on
365
1 community service providers for care as they
2 age. LGBT older people are more likely to
3 face discrimination when accessing health
4 care, social services, and other programs.
5 For so many LGBT elders, it is their safety
6 net.
7 I wanted to speak briefly today about
8 three programs here -- of course housing, but
9 that will be next week -- but within our SAGE
10 housing, we have our SAGE Centers. As you
11 may or may not know, this year we've opened
12 our first LGBT-friendly housing in Brooklyn,
13 called Stonewall House, in the Fort Green
14 area in Senator Montgomery's district. We
15 had the ribbon-cutting last month. It's
16 145 units. Twenty-five percent are formerly
17 homeless elders, 77 percent are people of
18 color. And that will mesh well with the
19 neighborhood. We -- it was split between
20 LGBT people and people from NYCHA.
21 And this year, coming in April, we
22 will be following up with a second house in
23 Crotona North, in the Bronx, which will have
24 83 units.
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1 Both of these will have SAGE Centers,
2 as the first LGBT-friendly housing in
3 New York State. The Sage Center in
4 Corona Park will be the largest SAGE Center
5 in the state, over 10,000 feet, and the one
6 in Brooklyn will have 8500 feet.
7 And so many of the elders who attend
8 our SAGE Centers daily struggle with mental
9 illness, substance abuse, and homelessness,
10 requiring an intensive amount of care
11 management and social service support. So
12 with these houses open and to be open, we
13 expect higher levels of needs among the
14 residents and elders in the surrounding
15 communities. Our SAGE Centers are open not
16 only to the residents but the elder residents
17 that are in the neighborhoods here, and so we
18 expect to see a great influx. No one's ever
19 complained there's too much social service
20 for elders in New York.
21 So we will be requiring additional
22 investment in our care management and SAGE
23 Center program to meet these needs. SAGE
24 requests $100,000 in support from New York
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1 State to provide comprehensive care
2 management. SAGE Center programming support
3 services alone cover predominantly LGBT elder
4 residents in and around the -- our welcoming
5 elder housing developments.
6 SAGE also requests a restoration of
7 $200,000 in support of our general services
8 and expenses in support of our state LGBT
9 elders. In total, we request a restoration
10 of $300,000 in fiscal year 2021.
11 Finally, as our veteran program -- we
12 heard today Colonel McDonough and
13 Assemblymember Barrett talked about SAGE
14 vets. We are growing, we are expanding, we
15 are -- most of our LGBT vets do not live in
16 New York City but live throughout the state.
17 Our manager of SAGE Vets has been
18 traveling from Long Island up to the
19 Adirondacks, through the Southern Tier, to
20 let veterans know that their discharges can
21 be updated and approved, that care management
22 is available, that legal services -- and the
23 more that we can connect people to the
24 federal system will make it easier on
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1 New York State to have to worry less about
2 the problems of homelessness and suicide if
3 we can access them to the federal system.
4 So in this fiscal year, SAGE
5 respectfully requests an increase in funding,
6 requesting $150,000 to continue the outreach
7 and benefits connecting to LGBT elder
8 veterans. The increased support will expand
9 the SAGE Vet program and access LGBT elder
10 veterans throughout the state through a
11 re-grant to our SAGE affiliates at Out
12 Alliance in Rochester and in SAGE Upstate in
13 Syracuse.
14 So thanks for the chance to do this
15 today, and I'll be happy to answer any
16 questions.
17 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
18 Anybody? Then thank you very much for
19 being with us.
20 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: Thank you.
21 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
22 MS. SKLARZ: Thank you.
23 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Next we have
24 New York Association of Training and
369
1 Employment Professionals, Melinda Mack,
2 executive director, followed by the New York
3 State Defenders Association Veterans Defense
4 Program.
5 MS. MACK: Hi, how are you. I usually
6 think my organization's a mouthful, so I'm
7 glad that there's others that are also tough.
8 Hi, everyone, and good afternoon. My
9 name is Melinda Mack. I'm the executive
10 director of the New York Association of
11 Training and Employment Professionals, which
12 is known as New York State's workforce
13 development association.
14 I'm also not going to read through my
15 testimony, but I want to spend a few minutes
16 highlighting a few things that I think we've
17 touched on a bit but haven't addressed yet in
18 today's hearing.
19 So as you know, I represent members
20 who provide workforce development services,
21 which are also part of the human services
22 field, across New York State and all 62
23 counties. They range from really small
24 organizations like community-based
370
1 organizations to huge institutions like SUNY
2 and CUNY.
3 I think one of the things I want to
4 underscore is, as you know, many of the folks
5 that our members serve are those who need
6 jobs not only the most, but also will lift
7 folks out of poverty based on their outcomes
8 and employment. As you also know, around
9 42 percent of New Yorkers have a high school
10 equivalency or less. And so as we continue
11 to think about human services investment, we
12 really should be focusing our efforts in
13 education, job training and employment
14 services for the many New Yorkers who need
15 support and skills training to be able to
16 access good or better jobs.
17 I also want to just mention that, you
18 know, we've worked with United Way over the
19 last couple of years to highlight those who
20 are working poor. We do know in our state
21 about a quarter-million New Yorkers are stuck
22 in part-time or low-wage work. These are
23 folks who are working. These are people who
24 have jobs, who are struggling to still make
371
1 ends meet. And about 45 percent of
2 New Yorkers fit into that ALICE criteria as
3 described by United Way.
4 For about 20 years now, New York's
5 strategy to solve the workforce development
6 crisis that we're facing -- and we have about
7 50,000 jobs right now that are open and in
8 demand that we cannot fill -- has been flat
9 funding, cuts, or tax credits. When we look
10 across the budget this year, the Executive
11 Budget, we're about $40 million short of the
12 enacted budget last year.
13 However, there are some bright spots.
14 We heard Summer Youth Employment mentioned
15 here -- again, to offset the increase in
16 minimum wage. There's also two new
17 initiatives, one supporting environmental
18 justice training across the state and then
19 also diversity in entertainment.
20 I do want to spend a minute touching
21 on the Governor's investment last year of
22 $175 million in workforce development, which
23 is managed through the new Office of
24 Workforce Development. Again, for those
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1 who've seen me testify before, this was a
2 huge win for the workforce system statewide,
3 to think that there would now be dedicated
4 resources going to education, job training,
5 and employment to start to, you know,
6 address, a little bit here and there, what
7 we're seeing across the state in terms of
8 service delivery needs.
9 At this point about $3.4 million in
10 funding has been awarded, and the Governor
11 has recommitted to investing in those dollars
12 for the upcoming years. I do, however, want
13 to draw your attention to the fact that the
14 flexible dollars in that fund are coming out
15 of the Pay for Success contingency fund,
16 which continue to remain relatively
17 unflexible, or inflexible.
18 We are sort of at the discretion of
19 the Division of Budget in terms of what
20 constraints they put on those resources. For
21 the human services sector -- again, of which
22 many provide these economic development and
23 workforce services -- they're required to
24 have all of the money up-front in order to be
373
1 able to deliver the services, and then
2 they're reimbursed by the state based on
3 their outcomes. It's just not tenable, it's
4 not reasonable, and it's not the way that we
5 know to do effective best practices in
6 workforce development.
7 Additionally, we've prescribed
8 performance for an outcome of employment
9 after one year. If you're working with those
10 with low basic skills, if you're supporting
11 individuals with disabilities, if you're
12 working with some of our hardest-to-serve
13 populations or even trying to put someone
14 through an apprenticeship program, one year
15 is not enough time in order to be able to
16 help someone access a good or better job.
17 The last thing I wanted to mention
18 before I also touch on childcare is that we
19 still also struggle across the state in being
20 able to measure the performance of our
21 systems. I'm sure many of the other human
22 service organizations or folks who represent
23 human services would say our members have to
24 enter data into anywhere between 10 and 12
374
1 data systems across New York State. It is a
2 huge time-suck.
3 It also does not allow us to
4 effectively describe or showcase what we're
5 able to do. So we often hear from you all,
6 "So tell us how many people you placed into
7 employment across the state, across your many
8 programs." I can't. I can't do it in a
9 meaningful way.
10 And so we also ask and encourage you
11 to continue to focus on -- I know
12 Assemblymember Bronson has talked about this
13 for years -- a way to better articulate and
14 communicate the success of the workforce
15 system and our investments in education, job
16 training, and employment.
17 The last thing I wanted to mention is
18 that childcare is a huge issue. Everywhere
19 we go across the state and we talk to
20 employers, people are missing work, they're
21 having to call in, they cannot find access to
22 affordable, reasonable childcare. This will
23 continue to be a major impact on our economic
24 development investment. You can deliver
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1 jobs, you can have job numbers, as many as
2 you like, but if you cannot find affordable
3 childcare for people to be able to actually
4 take those jobs, we're going to continue to
5 struggle.
6 Thank you. I'm happy to answer any of
7 your questions.
8 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
9 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Assemblyman
10 Bronson.
11 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: Thank you. I
12 just want to follow up on the $175 million.
13 MS. MACK: Sure.
14 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: What was the
15 dollar amount that you said has already been
16 disbursed or authorized?
17 MS. MACK: Sure. So we've seen a
18 press release two weeks ago, $3.4 million in
19 funding.
20 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: Okay. And are
21 you aware of applications that have been
22 submitted and pending, and what that dollar
23 amount translates into?
24 MS. MACK: No, so I don't know the
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1 number.
2 But I do know that there's been a
3 number -- so the way that the Governor's
4 office is structured, the application
5 process, there's a phase one that goes
6 through a subcommittee of the Regional
7 Economic Development Council where they sort
8 of bless it, they say it aligns with the
9 original strategy.
10 If that makes it through that
11 gauntlet, it then goes up to the Office of
12 Workforce Development in the Division of
13 Budget, in which they negotiate and decide
14 whether or not it meets the criteria for the
15 funding stream. It then goes through a
16 second phase of application where then they
17 sort of go into contracting and end up
18 supporting -- or moving forward.
19 So I do know there's a number that's
20 sort of in that middle ground, but we
21 certainly aren't spending money anywhere near
22 fast enough.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: Right. And this
24 is actually the second year that there was
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1 174 million, but nothing happened the first
2 year, correct?
3 MS. MACK: Correct.
4 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: All right. And
5 are you aware of or can you issue some kind
6 of idea on what's happening in connection
7 with these $175 million that are available,
8 and how we're addressing the home care
9 workforce?
10 MS. MACK: Yeah, so there is not a
11 direct connection in terms of how it's dated.
12 Again, I think we see across all caregiving
13 occupations a consistent challenge around
14 wages and the ability to recruit based on
15 wages and educational requirements. So
16 whether you're a direct support professional,
17 home health aide, or childcare worker, we're
18 seeing very similar challenges in the
19 workforce field.
20 Of course, the 175 can certainly be
21 used for education, training, and placement
22 of those workers. It cannot be paid to
23 replace wages. And so that's one of the
24 struggles we're seeing.
378
1 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: All right. And
2 so it's been identified in home care workers
3 some of the struggles, some of the
4 barriers -- childcare being one of them,
5 transportation being another, the fact that
6 they get paid such low wages they can't even
7 pay for their car maintenance, yet that's an
8 essential part of their job because they have
9 to travel from site to site.
10 Your understanding of the parameters
11 of these funds, could that offset any of
12 those costs, and possibly a pilot program or
13 something else as we're looking at developing
14 that workforce?
15 MS. MACK: Yeah, we're hopeful that
16 the Division of Budget sees those as
17 opportunities for innovation, right?
18 There's also something called the
19 Employer Resource Network that happens across
20 many regions where it's a coordination of
21 community-based services and human services
22 to support low-wage workers.
23 Right now, the way that it stands, it
24 needs to end in employment. So any of those
379
1 retention supports that are necessary to get
2 low-wage workers the skills and, more
3 importantly, the work experience necessary to
4 move up -- right now it doesn't look like
5 those can be invested in unless there's an
6 employment outcome.
7 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: Okay. And just
8 a quick shout out to the Empire State
9 Apprenticeship Tax Credit Program.
10 MS. MACK: Yeah.
11 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: So we need to
12 make sure that gets renewed in this budget.
13 Thank you.
14 MS. MACK: Thank you.
15 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
16 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
17 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Next we have
18 NYSDA, New York State Defenders Association,
19 Veterans Defense Program, Lieutenant Colonel
20 Roy Diehl, to be followed by the New York
21 State Veterans Council, to be followed by
22 Prevent Child Abuse New York.
23 LT. COL. DIEHL: Thank you. I see
24 you're enjoying acronyms, which is, for
380
1 anyone in uniform, something that you both
2 live by all the time, trip over, and use to
3 abuse your friends and family.
4 So my name is Roy Diehl. I'm here as
5 the deputy director of the Veterans Defense
6 Program, a statewide program of the New York
7 Defenders Association.
8 So I'm also one of the 718,000
9 veterans who call New York home. I enlisted
10 in the U.S. Army in 1984 at the height of the
11 Cold War and served in West Germany at the
12 Iron Curtain, I graduated from Albany Law
13 School in '92 and was commissioned as a
14 judge advocate in the New York Army National
15 Guard in '98. I served with so many of my
16 fellow New Yorkers in the 42nd Infantry
17 Division in Lower Manhattan after 9/11 and in
18 Iraq when we deployed there in 2005. I
19 retired from the Army Reserve as a lieutenant
20 colonel in 2015, and I'm now very proud to
21 serve with the New York State community
22 serving our New York State veterans through
23 the Veterans Defense Program.
24 So the VDP, a three-letter acronym for
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1 the Veterans Defense Program, provides
2 training, support, and legal assistance to
3 promote trauma-informed effective
4 representation of veterans in criminal and
5 family courts. I ask for your support for a
6 legislative add to the budget -- legislative
7 adds, a total of $720,000.
8 So state funding has allowed us to
9 help justice-involved wounded warriors
10 suffering from mental health conditions to
11 receive treatment and probation and avoid
12 incarceration with a cost savings of up to
13 $77 million over the past four years. This
14 year we request a $500,000 renewal matched
15 evenly by the Assembly and the Senate for a
16 statewide program and a $220,000 renewal by
17 the Senate for a Long Island office where the
18 highest concentration of our veterans are
19 located.
20 So in brief, that's what I have to
21 say. You have a lot of good things about the
22 way we do our program in the written
23 materials that go with the testimony.
24 So I'm subject to your questions.
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1 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: No?
2 Thank you --
3 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
4 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: -- and we have
5 the remainder of your submitted testimony.
6 Oh, I'm sorry.
7 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Senator Savino.
8 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you. Thank
9 you.
10 I just have one question for you,
11 because on the back page of your presentation
12 you have a graph that shows, of the 718,000
13 veterans in New York State, an estimated
14 30 percent, or 215,670, have PTSD, TBI, or
15 depression.
16 So I just wanted -- as I mentioned to
17 the director of Veterans' Services, when we
18 added PTSD as a qualified condition, it was
19 largely driven by veterans. Do you have any
20 indication of the number of vets who are
21 suffering -- are trying to avail themselves
22 of the Compassionate Care Act? Are they
23 running into obstacles, are you hearing from
24 them?
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1 LT. COL. DIEHL: This is part of the
2 joy of being a veteran. We internalize so
3 much. We self-medicate, we self-treat,
4 because we were taught to be self-reliant.
5 If you've got a problem, you just need to
6 overcome.
7 So how many people have issues that
8 they're dealing with that have not manifested
9 at this time? This is the best guess from
10 the professionals who study these things. We
11 know when people commit suicide, they went
12 really, really deep. We know when they have
13 gotten themselves arrested because of drug or
14 substance abuse issues or some kind of
15 violence, acting out, we know they're
16 manifesting these things.
17 But there are other people who can be
18 going along for years and years and you don't
19 notice until all of a sudden something snaps.
20 So you just never know. It's not like
21 we're all, you know, Rambos out there waiting
22 to blow up in people's faces. But the
23 ability to get in and reach out and touch
24 people, to say, Hey, we got your back, come
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1 on in, you know, we can help, you could use
2 some help -- that's part of this whole thing
3 in the Dwyer Program, as I understand it --
4 SENATOR SAVINO: Right.
5 LT. COL. DIEHL: -- with the mentors,
6 to reach out and just drag people in so that
7 they don't feel alone, they're not isolated,
8 and they can get the help that is out there
9 for them.
10 Again, with our program, we're only
11 getting them when they get into the court
12 system one way or another. When, you know,
13 we need to make sure the government is not
14 adding to the abuse and the pain. You know,
15 so that's where I feel really good in helping
16 my clients.
17 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you.
18 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you for
19 being here.
20 LT. COL. DIEHL: Thank you.
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
22 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Next we have
23 New York State Veterans Council, Kirby Hannan
24 and Bob Becker, followed by Prevent Child
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1 Abuse New York, followed by Coalition for the
2 Homeless.
3 MR. HANNAN: Bob actually wound up
4 with a VA appointment, so he bequeathed the
5 testimony to me. And I just want to say that
6 you folks have given a whole new definition
7 to "hard-ass."
8 (Laughter.)
9 MR. HANNAN: I thought I knew what it
10 meant in the military. My hats are off to
11 you, thanks for your dedication, thanks for
12 listening. Everybody here feels the same
13 way.
14 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
15 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
16 MR. HANNAN: Quickly, I'm going to run
17 through things that I think work together,
18 and I'm hoping that you guys can understand
19 that. And so here goes.
20 Veteran Service Officer funding --
21 there's a couple of kinds. One's at the
22 county level, and one's employed by a
23 congressionally recognized organization such
24 as mine, the VFW, or the American Legion.
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1 All right? Having said that, you're funding
2 the VFW, for example, to the tune of -- they
3 have three VSOs -- to the tune of about
4 $125,000. Total, not each. Total. All
5 right? For that, you get back about
6 $1.5 million a month in federal benefits in
7 claims going to New York veterans. So we're
8 getting our money's worth out of that.
9 And by the way, the county Veteran
10 Service Officers are doing the same thing.
11 They're -- the investment that we make, it's
12 about $30 for every dollar that we put out
13 there. And the counties don't get much at
14 all, by the way, and it should really be
15 looked at again. Because typically they'll
16 get about $10,000 for every 100,000 vets that
17 they serve, and then there's a formula that
18 goes up from there.
19 All right. So having said that, you
20 know, we don't need to have more money there
21 necessarily. If it happens, good. All
22 right? What we really need to do is to have
23 them, the Veteran Service Officers, way more
24 engaged in the Dwyer Program in terms of
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1 accountability.
2 You're funding the Dwyer Program to
3 the tune of 3.5 million. We're always
4 concerned about how OMH handles it. I want
5 you folks to take a peek at two bills. One
6 is the Veteran-to-Veteran Peer Certification
7 Program -- it's one bill, excuse me. It's
8 Ortiz/Parker. And then down below, with the
9 Women Vet Peer-to-Peer programs. Again,
10 Ortiz/Parker, it's in the same bill. We
11 thought we could split it out, but it didn't
12 work.
13 But the bottom line is, the
14 accreditation -- I could take an
15 accreditation course through OMH right now.
16 Or I could audit it, have them recognize me,
17 I could learn more about peer-to-peer
18 techniques as a VSO, and I could manage the
19 program better as OMH distributes the funds.
20 All right? And that -- I don't need to paint
21 a different picture from that. And OMH could
22 recognize me for having audited it. It
23 doesn't have to be a requirement. It could
24 be, for getting the funds, for that matter.
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1 All right, moving to women veterans,
2 because we are concerned about that -- and I
3 heard that numerous times today. All right?
4 The Women Veteran Peer-to-Peer is kind of
5 left out. The men -- Dwyer's an AA program,
6 all right? It's an AA program, it's an
7 anonymous program at the post level for
8 veterans to help other veterans. You just
9 heard from Roy Diehl, he said the same thing.
10 All right? It's ongoing at the grassroots
11 level.
12 Having said that, if women are --
13 don't go to the post as much. I'm going to
14 say men go to the post, women not so much.
15 All right? So having said that, Marlene
16 Roll, an ex-past commander of the VFW, about
17 once a year calls the women together in
18 Erie County. She gets 200 women every time
19 she sends the invite out. So this is what
20 we're talking about regarding that
21 Ortiz/Parker bill.
22 No brick and mortar, no money. Again,
23 the accreditation program, no money. We just
24 want to up the culture in terms of
389
1 understanding of how Dwyer can work. And I
2 heard more about Dwyer today than I have in
3 the last five years that we've been
4 testifying, and I just want to say thank you,
5 because you've been listening.
6 Veterans Treatment Court benefits from
7 this because they get a monitor and a mentor
8 that knows what they're doing, and then if
9 they can get into additional training from
10 OCA, they'll know how that fits into the
11 court structure and then we've got an
12 alternative sentencing program that can
13 really work. You've heard from Roy Diehl,
14 Veterans Defense Program, I don't need to
15 kill that.
16 So there we are. Thanks. I don't
17 blame you, you're not going to insult me if
18 you don't have any questions. Don't worry
19 about a thing, I get it.
20 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Kirby, you were
21 very succinct and effective.
22 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
23 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you for
24 being here.
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1 MR. HANNAN: Okay. All right, thanks.
2 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Next, Prevent
3 Child Abuse New York, followed by Coalition
4 for the Homeless, followed by Empire Justice
5 Center.
6 MR. HATHAWAY: Good afternoon. You
7 have my testimony in front of you. My name
8 is Tim Hathaway, I'm the executive director
9 with Prevent Child Abuse New York. I'm not
10 going to read through this entire
11 presentation but instead pick out a couple of
12 important points.
13 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Bring the mic a
14 little closer.
15 MR. HATHAWAY: Absolutely.
16 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
17 MR. HATHAWAY: Prevent Child Abuse is
18 a statewide organization, not-for-profit. We
19 have projects going on in Niagara Falls all
20 the way down to the tippy toes of
21 Long Island. So we're doing a lot of
22 different work.
23 What I want to call your attention to
24 are a number of projects. Some of them have
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1 been mentioned today already. We believe
2 primarily that child abuse prevention is a
3 community-based activity. It's about putting
4 the right sort of resources in communities
5 and ensuring that those are working well on
6 behalf of children and families.
7 Right now it's estimated that the
8 average cost of one child abuse case is about
9 $210,000. So if we have to march through the
10 68,000 cases that happen annually in New York
11 State, we're talking about a lot of dollars.
12 It's much easier to prevent those child abuse
13 cases, and we know that there are programs at
14 work today in the state that do that
15 prevention work for us. And I'm going to
16 talk about five of those programs. These are
17 all evidence-based programs. We know they
18 work because the science tells us they work.
19 The first one is maternal/infant/early
20 childhood home visiting. We've heard a
21 little bit of discussion about this today.
22 Our budget ask around this is $2 million for
23 the Parent-Child Home Program, $1 million for
24 Healthy Families New York, and $4 million for
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1 Nurse-Family Partnership.
2 I will note that the cut to the
3 private-public partnership is going to hit in
4 particular the Parent-Child Home Program. So
5 this will eat at their funding that's already
6 in place. We're going the wrong direction if
7 we don't do something about that cut to the
8 public-private partnership.
9 We also want to spend a minute on
10 Family Resource Centers. Family Resource
11 Centers are places in communities where
12 parents can go to find a supportive voice, to
13 find information about child development and
14 about other community resources. They can
15 find many times the sort of resources that
16 help strengthen their family in ways that we
17 know prevent child abuse.
18 The evidence around this program says
19 that in neighborhoods where Family Resource
20 Centers are placed, the rate of child abuse
21 goes down. Simple, simple prevention.
22 We're asking, based on what we've
23 found, discovered in our work -- we're asking
24 for a $200,000 request to place two
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1 additional Family Resource Centers, one in
2 the Mohawk Valley where there is not one
3 currently, and then also in another location
4 to be determined.
5 Housing. We've heard a little bit
6 about housing today. Housing is child abuse
7 prevention. We know when families have
8 stable housing, it reduces the amount of
9 child abuse. Assembly Bill 1620 and Senate
10 2375 would build out our current affordable
11 housing availability in the state.
12 Childcare we have talked about many,
13 many times today. I'm not going to spend a
14 lot of time there, but what we know is that
15 when childcare facilities, when providers are
16 in place, it protects children and builds
17 strong families.
18 The final one there is after-school.
19 Again, we've heard a lot about after-school
20 today. Again, if kids can be in a spot where
21 there are caring adults when their parents
22 are not available, we know that protects
23 children. It supports families. It's
24 important for us to build out that funding
394
1 and replace that budget cut of $5 million
2 that's been proposed.
3 Also attached to my testimony in the
4 last seconds here is the childcare budget
5 request from Winning Beginning and Empire
6 State Campaign for Childcare. Prevent Child
7 Abuse is a proud partner with those
8 organizations.
9 Thank you.
10 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you for
11 being here today.
12 MR. HATHAWAY: Yes.
13 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
14 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Next, Coalition
15 for the Homeless, followed by Empire Justice
16 Center, followed by New York Association for
17 the Education of Young Children.
18 MS. NORTZ: Good afternoon. My name
19 is Shelly Nortz. I'm the deputy executive
20 director for policy with the Coalition for
21 the Homeless.
22 Senator Krueger, Assemblymember
23 Weinstein, thank you for your endurance.
24 Other members, I appreciate your being here
395
1 and your willingness to listen.
2 I'm going to just hit the high points
3 of my testimony. Can you hear me? Yes?
4 Good.
5 Last year saw homelessness rise again
6 to record levels in New York State, evidence
7 of a continuing and unchecked affordable
8 housing crisis as well as the most extreme
9 income inequality found anywhere in our
10 nation. Shockingly, nearly 253,000
11 New Yorkers were homeless in the 2018-2019
12 school year, staying in shelters or doubled
13 up with friends and family, a number
14 exceeding the population of every city in the
15 state with the exception of New York City.
16 This consists of 133,000 unduplicated
17 children and adults sleeping in New York City
18 shelters, 79,000 homeless students in
19 New York City not sleeping in shelters,
20 including those doubled up, 34,000 homeless
21 students outside New York City, including
22 those doubled up, and 5,944 homeless adults
23 sleeping in shelters outside New York City.
24 As we know, thousands more sleep on
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1 the streets every night on steam grates,
2 cardboard boxes, and in the transit system.
3 New York City, where 85 percent of the
4 state's undomiciled population lives, remains
5 the epicenter of the worst homelessness
6 crisis since the Great Depression. The
7 number of children and adults sleeping in
8 shelters each night was 63,000 in November
9 2019, including more than 22,000 children and
10 an all-time-record 18,681 single adults.
11 The New York City shelter census rose
12 sharply in the first several years of
13 Governor Cuomo's tenure in the executive
14 chamber and remains at unsustainably high
15 levels, due in large part to the withdrawal
16 of state resources for a housing subsidy
17 program that was never replaced, and a
18 years-long delay in funding and initiating a
19 new state supportive housing program.
20 Thousands more adults have entered New York
21 City shelters directly from state prisons, as
22 we heard earlier, thanks to inadequate
23 discharge planning and a lack of sufficient
24 reentry housing options for people trying to
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1 get back on their feet.
2 Indeed, the number of people staying
3 in New York City shelters each night rose by
4 60 percent between January of 2011 and
5 November of 2019, an increase of more than
6 23,000 children and adults.
7 There are far more single individuals
8 seeking shelter in New York City today than
9 during the terms of any other governor since
10 modern mass homelessness began, as you can
11 see from the table. The reasons for this are
12 clear. Governor Cuomo not only eliminated
13 state funds for a mediocre rent subsidy
14 program without replacing it with a better
15 one, but he also dragged out the process of
16 starting a new state supportive housing
17 program for years and has released increasing
18 numbers of people from state prisons directly
19 to New York City shelters.
20 The number who moved into supportive
21 housing units in fiscal year 2018 reached a
22 14-year low even as the number of single
23 adults sleeping in shelters reached an all
24 time high. Fewer than 1,450 adults were
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1 placed in supportive housing in 2018, or just
2 3.5 percent of all individuals who spent time
3 in shelters that year, down from 7 percent a
4 decade prior.
5 Further, New York State prisons
6 released directly to New York City
7 shelters contributed to record homelessness
8 for single adults, representing over half of
9 all New York City releases and 15 percent of
10 all institutional releases directly to
11 New York City shelters.
12 We have two imperatives for 2020:
13 Home Stability Support, as we've talked about
14 earlier today, and additional capital funds
15 to spur supportive housing development.
16 Thank you, Senator Krueger, for asking the
17 commissioner those questions.
18 First and foremost, the time has come
19 to enact Home Stability Support legislation
20 introduced by Senator Krueger and
21 Assemblymember Hevesi and cosponsored by 35
22 Senators and 125 members of the Assembly. A
23 2016 analysis used to help design HSS found
24 that two-thirds of the 171,000 households
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1 receiving public assistance shelter
2 allowances have rents that exceed their
3 allowances, placing them at risk of
4 homelessness. Of those, more than 80,000
5 households were then on the brink of
6 homelessness. Surely their number has grown
7 and their circumstances have become more
8 acute since.
9 I'm going to skip to the next section
10 of my recommendations because I'm running low
11 on time. And let me just say that we are
12 pleased that Governor Cuomo provided
13 additional funds for more supportive housing
14 in his Executive Budget proposal, but
15 honestly it is far too little, too late for
16 the dire circumstance that we see on the
17 ground. And so we ask that the Legislature
18 fund the 14,000 remaining units in this
19 year's budget and enact Home Stability
20 Support without delay, notwithstanding the
21 fact that there's a pilot program out there.
22 Thank you.
23 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you for
24 your years of hard work and for coming before
400
1 us.
2 MS. NORTZ: Thank you so much.
3 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
4 Next, Empire Justice Center, Saima
5 Akhtar, followed by New York Association for
6 the Education of Young Children, followed by
7 New York State Community Mobilization Housing
8 Works.
9 MS. AKHTAR: Is this about right? Or
10 do you need it a little closer? Good, okay.
11 Good afternoon to the members of the
12 committee. Thank you for sticking it out
13 today. My name is Saima Akhtar. I am a
14 senior attorney at Empire Justice Center. I
15 truly appreciate the opportunity to submit
16 testimony today.
17 I'll be giving some comments on a few
18 selected portions of our written testimony,
19 just of highlights and leaving the rest as a
20 surprise for later.
21 Empire Justice Center, as many of you
22 already know, is a statewide legal services
23 organization with offices in Albany,
24 Rochester, two in Westchester and Central
401
1 Islip on Long Island. The organization
2 provides support and training to legal
3 services and other community-based
4 organizations, undertakes policy research and
5 analysis, and engages in legislative and
6 administrative advocacy.
7 We also represent low-income
8 individuals as well as classes of New Yorkers
9 in a wide range of areas that include civil
10 rights, health, public assistance, domestic
11 violence, and SSI and D disability benefits.
12 As the members of the committee are
13 certainly well aware, the New York State
14 economy has actually been relatively robust
15 in the past year and, in spite of a looming
16 and somewhat self-inflicted budget deficit,
17 the Legislature still has the opportunity and
18 the capacity to take action on behalf of
19 those who are most in need. We can solidify
20 the safety-net programs and provide some real
21 progressive change here in New York.
22 One of the things that I want to
23 highlight for you today is the Disability
24 Advocacy Program, also known as DAP. DAP is
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1 a long-standing program here in New York,
2 it's existed since the early 1980s, and what
3 DAP does is it funds advocates in every
4 county in the state who assist folks who have
5 been cut off or denied federal SSI or D
6 benefits to secure those benefits and draw
7 down federal funds into New York. This saves
8 the state money. It's about a $2-plus return
9 on the investment for every one dollar that
10 funds DAP.
11 What we are seeing is that in 2019,
12 applicants for disability benefits began to
13 face additional -- what's called a mandatory
14 reconsideration before an actual hearing is
15 held on a denied application. This process,
16 this desk review process places an additional
17 hurdle along the path of folks with
18 disabilities being able to actually get their
19 application reviewed. It puts them one step
20 further away from securing benefits and
21 receiving payments, it keeps clients poorer
22 longer, it costs the state money, and it is
23 an unnecessary delay that was essentially
24 created by federal regulatory change.
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1 The DAP advocates have willingly taken
2 on this step and have not actually sought
3 extra funding to do it. What we are seeking
4 at this time is essentially a repeated
5 investment, the same -- a hold harmless to
6 where we were last year.
7 So the Executive Budget provisions
8 have certain set-asides for DAP. We are
9 asking the Legislature to add on $3 million
10 in addition to what's already in the
11 Executive Budget to keep the DAP program
12 funded at $8.26 million this year as it was
13 last year, even with the additional burden of
14 the mandatory consideration process.
15 Additionally you've heard a fair
16 amount already from my colleagues at the
17 Schuyler Center, the Early Care & Learning
18 Council, Winning Beginning you'll hear from,
19 the Association for the Education of Young
20 Children, about the critical need for
21 childcare. In your written comments are
22 robust data and information speaking to that
23 need.
24 I cannot summarize that for you and do
404
1 it justice. What I will say is that it is a
2 total investment consistent with Winning
3 Beginning NY and the Empire State Childcare
4 Campaign looking for $60 million to increase
5 access to childcare and then $40 million to
6 increase workforce compensation and quality
7 of care.
8 This is critical. Childcare, as you
9 know, is a work support. And while we are
10 looking at low-wage workers and keeping them
11 here, we are also looking at other portions
12 of the safety net being attacked at the
13 federal level. For those of you who don't
14 know, my primary practice is in the area of
15 SNAP benefits, and what I am thinking about
16 is the fact that SNAP is under attack at the
17 federal level, SNAP benefits potentially
18 stand to be reduced, and to the extent we can
19 take the heat off of low-income families and
20 support them in other ways, this is an
21 opportunity to support families who are going
22 to potentially lose SNAP.
23 There is shifting that can happen
24 here, and should. And to that end, just in
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1 the smidge of time -- I know there was a
2 question previously put by the committee, I
3 believe it was Senator May who asked about
4 preserving SNAP benefits and whether or not
5 there was any opportunity to do that at this
6 time.
7 I did just want to take this
8 opportunity to suggest that it would be
9 useful if in New York we moved to a voluntary
10 rather than a mandatory employment and
11 training. Right now the employment and
12 training options are distributed by county.
13 Some counties do a mandatory program. To the
14 extent that there will be additional folks
15 who are forced into employment or training
16 with the loss of ABAWD waivers later this
17 year, freeing those slots would mean that
18 there's administrative flexibility at the
19 county level that would not otherwise be had.
20 Thank you for your time today.
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
22 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you for
23 your testimony as well as the extensive
24 information in your submission.
406
1 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: It's a
2 dissertation. We'll have to put a little
3 more time on that.
4 MS. AKHTAR: Absolutely.
5 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
6 Next, New York Association for the
7 Education of Young Children, Kristen Kerr,
8 executive director.
9 MS. KERR: Good afternoon, and thank
10 you for this opportunity to provide testimony
11 today.
12 As mentioned, I am Kristen Kerr, the
13 executive director of the Association for the
14 Education of Young Children. Our mission is
15 to promote excellence in early care and
16 education for New York State children and
17 families through education, advocacy, and the
18 support of the profession.
19 As a statewide membership organization
20 of over 3,000 early childhood educators, we
21 represent the workforce that shapes the lives
22 of New York's youngest learners. These
23 members work across settings and are integral
24 in their communities, ensuring that parents
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1 can work with the peace of mind that their
2 children are safe, learning, and well cared
3 for.
4 However, our state economy cannot
5 reach its full potential when the workforce
6 it relies on operates in the confines of a
7 broken system in a state of market failure.
8 After decades of asking whether high-quality
9 early education works for young children, it
10 is time to shift our focus to what works best
11 and how we can support it.
12 As we advocate for change at the
13 federal level, we cannot afford to wait for
14 Congress to act. New York's children and
15 families and early childhood educators need
16 us now. Today we join with Winning Beginning
17 NY and the Empire State Campaign for
18 Childcare to ask the Legislature to commit to
19 achieving universal access to quality
20 affordable childcare by 2025.
21 Our educators are passionate and
22 committed professionals. They often remain
23 in our field for decades because caring for
24 and teaching young children is what they
408
1 love. But many do it at a great personal
2 cost. An alarming 65 percent of New York's
3 early educators in childcare settings rely on
4 supports such as SNAP, Medicaid, TANF, and
5 the Earned Income Tax Credit. Nationally,
6 rates of participation of early educators are
7 double the rates of workers across all
8 occupations.
9 Critical to quality early childhood
10 programs are highly educated teachers and
11 caregivers with a deep understanding of child
12 development, and that are well supported and
13 fairly compensated. Foundational to
14 excellent early learning experiences for
15 children are stable relationships with these
16 educators.
17 High levels of turnover undermine
18 those relationships, creating unease in
19 children and a burden on administrators. A
20 recent study of early childhood educator
21 turnover rates by the Buffett Early Childhood
22 Initiative found that nationally turnover
23 ranges from 26 and 40 percent of staff per
24 year. This rate is highest in child care
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1 settings, with 58 percent of child care
2 administrators identifying salary as the
3 primary reason teachers leave.
4 As the minimum wage increases, we have
5 seen an already dire problem worsen. Wage
6 compression has diminished minimal wage
7 differences between new aides and assistants
8 and veteran early educators with advanced
9 degrees. All workers deserve an adequate
10 living wage, and early educators who dedicate
11 years to pursuing higher education and remain
12 in the field deserve a wage ladder that
13 compensates them fairly in addition to this
14 living wage.
15 A recent Raising New York survey also
16 found that many programs are running at a
17 deficit, and childcare providers who enroll
18 at least one child with a subsidy are more
19 likely to have a deficit than those who do
20 not. The current market rate for subsidy is
21 too low to provide high quality care for
22 families who need it most. In fact, it is
23 too low for programs who accept subsidies to
24 remain financially solvent.
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1 High-quality early learning and
2 childcare experiences must occur in a system
3 that values early childhood educators and
4 childcare providers as the workforce that
5 prepares children for bright futures while
6 their parents work. As a member of both the
7 Empire State Campaign for Childcare and the
8 Winning Beginning steering committee, we
9 share in the deep concern that Governor Cuomo
10 included no new state investments for
11 childcare in his Executive Budget.
12 We urge the Legislature to work with
13 the Executive to ensure the following
14 commitments and investments are included in
15 the 2020-2021 final enacted budget:
16 New York commits to achieving
17 universal access to quality, affordable child
18 care by 2025. And to set New York on a path
19 of meeting this goal of universal access, and
20 to curb the exodus of educators from the
21 field while working towards it, New York
22 makes significant building block investments
23 in child care this year, including investing
24 at least 40 million to create a fund to
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1 increase workforce compensation and improve
2 the quality of these programs, and at least
3 60 million in the state's child care subsidy
4 program to expand access to more working
5 families by making eligibility levels and
6 copays more fair and uniform across the
7 state.
8 Thank you for considering our budget
9 request, and we look forward to continuing to
10 work with you to support the children and
11 families and early educators of New York.
12 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
13 Thank you for being here.
14 Next, we have New York State Community
15 Mobilization for Housing Works, Elizabeth
16 Deutsch, Jaron Benjamin -- three? Oh, okay.
17 Good, I was wondering how three people were
18 going to share five minutes.
19 MS. DEUTSCH: Jaron's not here. They
20 were just the backups.
21 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Okay. Thank
22 you.
23 MS. DEUTSCH: I'm going to try not to
24 read my testimony, but there's things in here
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1 that I don't want to miss.
2 Thank you for the opportunity to
3 present testimony to the joint budget hearing
4 on Human Services. My name is Elizabeth
5 Deutsch, and I am the director of New York
6 State and New England Community Mobilization
7 for Housing Works, a healing community of
8 people living with and affected by HIV/AIDS.
9 Housing Works is part of the End AIDS NY 2020
10 Community Coalition, a group of over 90
11 healthcare centers, hospitals, and
12 community-based organizations across the
13 state. Housing Works and the Community
14 Coalition are fully committed to realizing
15 the goals of our historic state blueprint for
16 Ending the Epidemic for all New Yorkers by
17 the end of the year 2020.
18 Safe, stable housing is essential to
19 support effective antiretroviral treatment
20 that sustains optimal health for people with
21 HIV and makes it impossible to transmit HIV
22 to others. Indeed, New York State data show
23 that unstable housing is the single strongest
24 predictor of poor HIV outcomes and health
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1 disparities. The blueprint's housing
2 recommendations have been fully implemented
3 in New York City since 2016, where the local
4 Department of Social Services employs the
5 New York State HIV Enhanced Shelter Allowance
6 Program to offer every income-eligible person
7 with HIV a rental subsidy sufficient to
8 afford housing stability, and provides a
9 30 percent rent cap and affordable housing
10 protection for persons who rely on disability
11 benefits or other fixed income.
12 Upstate and on Long Island, however,
13 as many as 4,200 low-income households living
14 with HIV remain homeless or unstably housed,
15 because the state law limits the 30 percent
16 rent cap to residents of New York City -- and
17 the 1980s regulations governing the HIV
18 Enhanced Shelter Allowance set maximum rent
19 at just $480 per month, and only the New York
20 City local Department of Social Services
21 approves rental subsidies in line with fair
22 market rents.
23 It is time to ensure that homeless and
24 unstably housed New Yorkers with HIV
414
1 throughout the state have equal access to
2 vital New York State housing supports by
3 enabling all local districts to approve rents
4 in line with local fair market rents and
5 extending the 30 percent affordable housing
6 protection to eligible low-income persons
7 with HIV in every part of New York State.
8 Indeed, the ongoing failure to meet
9 this housing need threatens to undermine the
10 ETE plan -- I'm sorry, I'm going to jump
11 ahead because I'm afraid of running out of
12 time.
13 ETE Community Coalition members have
14 been told by social services commissioners
15 outside of New York that they lack the
16 resources required to expand housing options
17 for their community members with HIV who
18 remain homeless or unstably housed. So we
19 were very pleased that the New York State
20 fiscal year 2020 budget included our proposal
21 to make $5 million in New York State funding
22 available to enable departments of social
23 services outside of New York City to
24 voluntarily partner with local payers and
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1 community-based organizations to pilot
2 innovative strategies to fund meaningful
3 rental assistance for homeless and unstably
4 housed low-income New Yorkers.
5 This New York State funding would
6 leverage matching dollars from local
7 partners, for a total of a $10 million annual
8 HIV housing investment. Ample evidence shows
9 that dollars spent on HIV rental assistance
10 generate Medicaid savings from avoided
11 emergency and inpatient care that offsets the
12 cost of housing supports.
13 However, the fiscal year 2020 budget
14 language included a poison pill that
15 undermined the ability of local districts to
16 secure local partners and propose successful
17 plans. The Aid to Localities language
18 required that any savings realized through
19 improved housing stability be recaptured to
20 reduce the state investment, while still
21 requiring the local partner providing the
22 matching funds to continue to pay 100 percent
23 of the costs for housed participants in
24 perpetuity.
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1 As we predicted when advocating for a
2 fix for this budget last year, no local
3 districts took us up on the offer. And
4 consequently, no one was housed last year.
5 We are pleased that the fiscal year
6 2021 Executive Budget again includes
7 $5 million in annual funding for the pilot
8 program as well as the reappropriation of the
9 $5 million that went unspent last year.
10 However, we are very dismayed that the
11 proposed language continues to include the
12 same undermining language.
13 It is critical to the success of the
14 pilot program that this language be changed
15 to allow local partners to propose the best
16 use of healthcare savings realized through
17 improved housing status, including sharing
18 savings among the local social services
19 district and the health payer to support
20 programs and administrative costs and provide
21 ongoing HIV housing subsidies.
22 Housing Works and the ETE Community
23 Coalition urge the Governor and the
24 Legislature to fully support this $5 million
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1 rest-of-state HIV housing pilot by including
2 the revised initiative language in the
3 enacted FY 2021 budget, and passing
4 Education, Labor, and Family Assistance
5 Article VII language to authorize the use of
6 funds. We believe that this $10 million
7 investment will support sufficient housing
8 subsidies to finally afford equal access to
9 safe, stable housing for households living
10 with HIV in every part of New York State.
11 (Laughter.)
12 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
13 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
14 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you
15 for -- I believe there are no questions.
16 Thank you.
17 Next, Citizen's Committee for Children
18 of New York, Daryl Hornick-Becker, to be
19 followed -- the next three witnesses are
20 NEW Pride Agenda, Winning Beginning NY, and
21 New York Immigration Coalition.
22 MR. HORNICK-BECKER: Good afternoon.
23 My name is Daryl Hornick-Becker, and I
24 am a policy and advocacy associate at the
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1 Citizens' Committee for Children of New York.
2 CCC is a 75-year-old independent multi-issue
3 child advocacy organization dedicated to
4 ensuring that every New York child is
5 healthy, housed, educated, and safe.
6 I'd like to thank Chair Weinstein,
7 Chair Krueger, and all the members of the
8 Assembly Ways and Means and Senate Finance
9 Committees for holding today's hearing.
10 CCC recognizes the need to be fiscally
11 prudent given the current budget deficit.
12 That said, we are very disappointed that the
13 State Budget is being balanced by cutting and
14 curtailing services for the most vulnerable
15 children and families. We're also worried
16 that proposed caps on Medicaid spending and
17 caps to TANF funds and initiatives would
18 result in significant cost shifts in New York
19 City. We urge the Legislature to negotiate a
20 budget that is balanced in a manner that
21 improves the well-being of children, youth
22 and families.
23 For further detail, I refer you to my
24 written testimony. Today I'll be summarizing
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1 some key issues across the human services
2 sector.
3 For childcare, the Executive Budget
4 proposes no new solutions to the current
5 crisis that is facing New York. High-quality
6 childcare is an expensive necessity, and
7 helpful subsidies currently serve fewer than
8 20 percent of low-income families.
9 Additionally, early childhood educators in
10 many regions of the state are paid so little
11 that many are living in or near poverty.
12 The Governor commissioned a Childcare
13 Task Force over two years ago, and yet the
14 Executive Budget includes no significant new
15 investments. It does include an expansion of
16 the childcare tax credit, but it would be a
17 mistake to think that a credit of $330 per
18 year could have any meaningful impact on
19 families facing average childcare costs of
20 $15,000 annually per child.
21 We urge the Assembly and Senate to
22 invest $100 million in childcare:
23 $40 million to create a fund to increase
24 salaries, and $60 million for subsidies to
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1 increase eligibility and decrease families'
2 copayments.
3 CCC was also disappointed to see only
4 a small investment for statewide universal
5 pre-K that would impact an estimated 2,000
6 children -- despite the 77,000 four-year olds
7 outside of New York City without access to
8 full-day pre-K. We urge the Legislature to
9 invest $150 million in universal pre-K, to
10 add seats, and to fund regional assistance
11 centers.
12 In the area of after-school, we
13 applaud the Governor for adding $10 million
14 in a fourth round of Empire State After
15 School grants, but were disappointed to see
16 the same budget propose a $5 million cut to
17 the Advantage After School Program that would
18 force 2,500 children to lose their
19 after-school programming. We urge the
20 Legislature to restore that funding and to
21 add an additional $5 million to increase
22 per-pupil rates, to maintain services, and to
23 accommodate rising operational costs.
24 Turning to child welfare, CCC is
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1 deeply concerned with the Executive Budget's
2 proposed $25 million reduction in funds to
3 OCFS. The state also continues to reduce
4 reimbursements of preventive services to
5 62 percent despite statute requiring a
6 65 percent match. We urge the Legislature to
7 restore these funds, invest in preventive
8 services, and help decrease the number of
9 children placed in foster care.
10 We're also concerned that the state
11 continues to fund KinGAP within the Foster
12 Care Block Grant, causing it to be
13 under-utilized across the state. There's a
14 clear opportunity to expand the use of KinGAP
15 by funding it outside of the block grant,
16 similar to how adoption subsidies are funded.
17 In the area of juvenile justice, the
18 CCC was very excited to see the new section
19 of correction law requiring all adolescent
20 offenders to be transferred from DOCCS to
21 OCFS facilities. To build on this progress,
22 CCC urges the Legislature to consider several
23 youth justice initiatives. First, we are
24 demanding an end to all forms of solitary
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1 confinement in adolescent facilities,
2 reversing current practice that permits
3 children to be held in isolation for 18 to
4 22 hours a day.
5 Second, we're asking to create a new
6 young adult status up to age 25, allowing
7 youth 19 years and older the same protections
8 as offered under the Youthful Offender Law.
9 And third, we are asking to lower the
10 age of juvenile delinquency from 7 to 12 to
11 end the prosecution of children who under
12 current law can be subject to police
13 questioning and confinement.
14 In the area of homelessness, CCC was
15 pleased to see the Executive Budget's
16 investment in supportive housing, but it's
17 unclear how it will be prioritized to impact
18 families experiencing homelessness who make
19 up the majority of residents in shelters. We
20 urge the Legislature to combat family
21 homelessness by addressing one of its lead
22 drivers, domestic violence.
23 This year's budget should include
24 flexible funding for a Rapid Rehousing for
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1 Domestic Violence Survivors pilot program, a
2 HUD-approved model that connects survivors to
3 safe, affordable permanent housing.
4 The human services sector is a
5 critical component of the fabric of our
6 state, but budget reductions and cost shifts
7 to localities ultimately impede the sector's
8 ability to respond to the needs of vulnerable
9 New Yorkers. The current budget deficit must
10 not be balanced on the backs of New York's
11 children and families.
12 Thank you for this opportunity to
13 testify.
14 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
15 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
16 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you for
17 being here.
18 Next, Cynthia Dames, NEW Pride Agenda.
19 MS. DAMES: Thank you very much.
20 Cynthia Dames. I know many of you
21 from my prior life doing government affairs
22 for nonprofits, some old friends, some new
23 friends, and I have embarked on a new -- one
24 last mission to try to move the ball. Thank
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1 you. Nice seeing you again.
2 Many of you know the history -- I'm
3 just going to speak from my separate notes.
4 Many of you of course know the long history
5 regarding Empire State Pride Agenda. I had
6 the privilege of working for them as a
7 lobbyist in the early years under Alan van
8 Capelle. We worked very hard regarding the
9 passage of marriage equality in the Assembly,
10 and of course we're enormously gratified by
11 its full conclusion and implementation.
12 A number of us were dismayed when ESPA
13 closed down because we felt there's a variety
14 of discriminatory issues that continue,
15 particularly for young people, people of
16 color, transgender community, communities --
17 LGBTQ communities of poverty, and really a
18 remarkable dearth of LGBTQ-sensitive services
19 upstate. Really, really striking.
20 And so we formed the NEW Pride
21 Agenda -- you know, more women-led, more
22 diverse, a variety of trans membership. We
23 just got new board members from Rochester,
24 we're recruiting in Buffalo, Long Island,
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1 Western New York, et cetera. We are
2 committed to developing a statewide,
3 ground-up LGBTQ organization.
4 We're focusing on civic engagement
5 beginning in New York City, but we'll do that
6 as well upstate, and of course advocacy. So
7 one of our major issues this fall that we
8 worked on -- probably as a prior lobbyist,
9 knowing and sensitive to the need for
10 implementation of law when the law is little
11 trickier or a little more challenging -- and
12 so we had a variety of meetings all fall
13 about ideas regarding implementation of
14 GENDA. And we very much encourage the
15 Governor to think about mandating state
16 employees have an understanding of it. We're
17 very gratified he included that in the State
18 of the State.
19 We're very gratified that the
20 Department of Human Rights is going to start
21 a public education campaign to understand
22 GENDA, and the companion to that, in our
23 judgement, would be an awareness -- a
24 training program, trans-led, in different
426
1 areas of the state, particularly with those
2 that are responsible for implementing the
3 law, whether you're in education or housing,
4 employment, and certainly medical facilities.
5 Perhaps in a phased-in approach.
6 So we're suggesting, starting in a
7 modest way, $1.5 million that would be
8 distributed in four or five areas throughout
9 the state, different regions, all for you to
10 be decided. But trans-led training.
11 And I just want to do a separate
12 comment. When marriage happened, we all
13 understand marriage. Marriage has gone on
14 for hundreds and thousands of years. There
15 wasn't a huge educational component needed.
16 But when you talk about individuals having a
17 disconnect between mind and heart and body,
18 and going through transitions and becoming
19 transgender, that's something very hard for
20 many people to understand.
21 And we are sympathetic to that. I'm
22 learning about it myself. I'm in trans
23 training. My 22-year-old daughter has more
24 trans friends, I'm sure, than I do. It's
427
1 generational. It's different. And so we're
2 really -- we know the need, sometimes, to
3 really get behind the wheel and help laws
4 become real.
5 And so we're asking your indulgence to
6 consider trans training statewide that would
7 help employers and others understand the
8 differences and how to be respectful and how
9 to respond. We ourselves at NEW Pride Agenda
10 did a statewide survey, and the overwhelming
11 response was not that people weren't
12 well-meaning when one went for a job or
13 medical facilities, but they were just
14 ignorant. They didn't have knowledge about
15 it. They didn't know what to do about it.
16 So this is not about blame, this is
17 not about punishment, this is like --
18 consider please putting some money forward to
19 help this continuation of really implementing
20 GENDA in a way that it needs to be
21 implemented for people to understand it
22 better.
23 We thank you also for some
24 discretionary support we got for NEW Pride
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1 Agenda for downstate organizing. We hope to
2 get some for upstate as well. And thank you
3 for your consideration. It's nice seeing you
4 all again.
5 Any questions? Okay, thank you very
6 much.
7 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you,
8 Cynthia.
9 Winning Beginning NY, is anybody here?
10 Okay. Have you -- did you submit testimony
11 at the desk? Okay, kind of.
12 Okay. Gregory Brender?
13 MR. BRENDER: Yes.
14 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Okay. You're
15 on.
16 MR. BRENDER: Thank you so much for
17 the opportunity to testify and for sticking
18 it out on a long day.
19 Winning Beginning NY is a New York
20 State statewide early care and learning
21 coalition. We work on issues from prenatal
22 to 8 years old, and we bring together many
23 groups throughout the state. So a lot of
24 what is in my testimony you actually heard
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1 from many of our colleagues.
2 Just to sort of say who we are, we
3 work with different groups throughout the
4 state, and our steering committee includes
5 Advocates for Children, the Chautauqua Lake
6 Childcare Center, Early Care and Learning
7 Council, Center for Children's Initiatives,
8 Network for Youth Success, New York State
9 Association for the Education of Young
10 Children, Prevent Child Abuse New York,
11 United Neighborhood Houses -- where I serve
12 as the director of children and youth
13 services -- and the Western New York Women's
14 Foundation.
15 I want to highlight two key pieces
16 where we see this budget really falling short
17 of serving children and families and their
18 communities. First, as you've heard from
19 several of my colleagues around childcare,
20 there's deep disappointment that despite the
21 convening of a task force started in 2018 and
22 the need of communities throughout the state,
23 that the Executive Budget takes no action to
24 address really the crisis in childcare for
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1 New York's children and families.
2 Working with many of the
3 community-based organizations who provide
4 childcare, we see how desperate so many
5 families are to get their children into
6 something affordable, and how difficult it is
7 for those families to afford child care, and
8 so we ask that the Legislature not wait until
9 this task force completes its convenings but
10 takes action in this budget to move forward
11 to expanding childcare.
12 In particular, we ask that New York
13 commits to achieving universal access to
14 quality affordable childcare by 2025,
15 starting with two investments this year. One
16 is to invest at least $40 million to create a
17 fund that will increase workforce
18 compensation and improve childcare quality.
19 Program quality, making sure that these are
20 places where people want to have their
21 children, and making sure that childcare
22 programs are the kind of programs that really
23 build on the benefits of childcare, requires
24 a staff who are stable, who are
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1 well-compensated, and who are well-trained.
2 And then also investing $60 million to
3 both increase family eligibility, so that
4 more low-income families can access
5 childcare. As well as to decrease the copays
6 that parents pay. Because even with
7 subsidies, many parents are struggling to pay
8 for childcare.
9 I also want to quickly address
10 after-school. For now I think the ninth year
11 in a row, the Governor's budget has proposed
12 cutting $5 million from the Advantage After
13 School Program. This would affect 2,500
14 children. This is not something -- when we
15 know that families are trying to get their
16 kids into after-school and we know how
17 important it is for families' work schedules
18 and for childrens' development, this is not a
19 cut that should be proposed.
20 We also want to ask the Legislature to
21 push to increase rates in both the Advantage
22 After School Program and the Empire State
23 After School Program to 23.20 per child.
24 These are programs that in many cases are
432
1 struggling to pay their staff and struggling
2 to maintain quality.
3 Thank you for the opportunity to
4 testify. And are there any questions?
5 Okay, thank you very much.
6 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you for
7 being here.
8 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you for
9 testifying.
10 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: And the final
11 witness of today's hearing, New York
12 Immigration Coalition, Alana Cantillo.
13 MS. CANTILLO: Hi, good afternoon.
14 Thank you for convening this hearing. My
15 name is Alana Pilar Cantillo, and I'm the
16 senior director of advocacy for the New York
17 Immigration Coalition.
18 On behalf of the NYIC and its 200
19 nonprofit organizations that make up our
20 membership, I'm here to urge the inclusion
21 and renewal and increase of funding to the
22 New York State Enhanced Services for Refugees
23 Program, also known as NYSESRP, in the
24 FY '20-'21 budget.
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1 The Enhance Services for Refugees
2 Program is administered among the refugees
3 services programs in the Office of Temporary
4 and Disability Assistance. It began in 2017
5 as a remarkable response to the federal
6 government's retreat from refugee
7 resettlement. New York State did what no
8 other state would: provide flexible state
9 funds to support the state's strong network
10 of resettlement agencies through a difficult
11 time, and help them reframe their focus on
12 integration.
13 New York State allocated $2 million
14 for NYSESRP in fiscal years '18, '19, and
15 '20. Because of the continued federal cuts
16 in support of refugee integration, the NYIC,
17 as part of New York for Refugees -- a
18 coalition of 16 agencies resettling refugees,
19 along with the Fiscal Policy Institute --
20 together we are requesting $5 million in
21 FY '20-'21.
22 NYSESRP delivers measurable impact.
23 In the past year alone, the program has
24 provided nearly 8,000 unique services to
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1 refugees, including almost 5,000 case
2 management integration services, over 1,000
3 employment training services, and 600
4 connections to English language courses.
5 NYSESRP allows agencies to concentrate
6 on long-term integration in a way that
7 addresses the needs of each client, unlike
8 existing federal programs, which focus merely
9 on the first 90 days after arrival. This
10 flexible funding and extended case management
11 opportunities allows agencies to provide
12 deeper and broader support, benefiting
13 refugees and communities. In challenging
14 times, this program is continuing to
15 establish best practices.
16 NYSESRP is a model for other states
17 around the country. New York State was the
18 first, Oregon followed suit last year, and
19 advocates in California and states across the
20 country have repeatedly reached out and
21 inquired about New York State's program in
22 order for advocates, service providers around
23 the state to receive the sort of best
24 practices that have been established here in
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1 New York.
2 The state's $2 million investment
3 shows that New York is committed to refugees
4 and the agencies that serve them. This is
5 critical, as over 50 refugee-serving
6 organizations in the United States have
7 closed permanently, and over 40 have ceased
8 resettling refugees since 2017.
9 I'm going to jump ahead to just note
10 that the refugee resettlement population is
11 on the decline and supports populations that
12 are aging across upstate New York, in some
13 cases even tipping cities toward population
14 rebound. The majority of primary
15 resettlement in New York is in upstate
16 communities, over 90 percent. Resettlement
17 agencies also play a key role downstate,
18 helping individuals reach their full
19 potential in economic and social integration.
20 NYSESRP attracts secondary migrants to
21 New York as well. Because of the state's
22 support, New York's resettlement agencies and
23 communities welcome people from Bhutan,
24 Somalia, Burma, Afghanistan, Congo, and other
436
1 countries from across the United States to be
2 settled in New York.
3 When refugee and immigrant communities
4 are more prominent, it also attracts young
5 people who want to live in vibrant and
6 diverse areas. A strong network of services
7 that support the success of secondary
8 migrants is critical to positive outcomes for
9 the communities they choose to live in.
10 Without the state's NYSESRP program, there is
11 no statewide network.
12 This is a critical moment for New York
13 State to take action. The federal government
14 has put the refugee resettlement program
15 under even further strain as years have gone
16 by, setting the Presidential Determination
17 that governs the maximum number of refugees
18 to be resettled at a 40-year low -- around
19 8,000 arrivals. Because that represents
20 another devastating cut to our agencies'
21 sustainability, NYSESRP is asking that the
22 Governor and the Legislature increase support
23 in the state's budget from $2 million to
24 $5 million.
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1 Thank you so much for your time.
2 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
3 Thank you for being here today.
4 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you very
5 much.
6 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: We have no
7 questions.
8 This concludes the Joint Legislative
9 Hearing on Human Services. The joint
10 committees will reconvene for a budget
11 hearing on Monday, February 3rd, at
12 11:00 o'clock, on the subject of
13 mental hygiene.
14 (Whereupon, the Human Services budget
15 hearing concluded at 4:34 p.m.)
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