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1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE
2
3
4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
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8
9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 February 8, 2021
11 3:53 p.m.
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13
14 REGULAR SESSION
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17
18 SENATOR BRIAN A. BENJAMIN, Acting President
19 ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary
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540
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
3 Senate will come to order.
4 I ask everyone present to please
5 rise and recite the Pledge of Allegiance.
6 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited
7 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: In the
9 absence of clergy, let us bow our heads in a
10 moment of silent reflection or prayer.
11 (Whereupon, the assemblage respected
12 a moment of silence.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
14 reading of the Journal.
15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, Friday,
16 February 5, 2021, the Senate met pursuant to
17 adjournment. The Journal of Thursday,
18 February 4, 2021, was read and approved. On
19 motion, Senate adjourned.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Without
21 objection, the Journal stands approved as read.
22 Presentation of petitions.
23 Messages from the Assembly.
24 Messages from the Governor.
25 Reports of standing committees.
541
1 Reports of select committees.
2 Communications and reports from
3 state officers.
4 Motions and resolutions.
5 Senator Gianaris.
6 SENATOR GIANARIS: Can we proceed
7 to the reading of the calendar, Mr. President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
9 Secretary will read.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 68,
11 Assembly Print Number 957, by Assemblymember
12 Galef, an act to amend Chapter 598 of the Laws of
13 1938.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
15 the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect on the same date and in the
18 same manner as a chapter of the Laws of 2020.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
20 the roll.
21 (The Secretary called the roll.)
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
23 Announce the results.
24 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
542
1 bill is passed.
2 Senator Gianaris.
3 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
4 thank you for indulging my delay.
5 That was Senator Reichlin-Melnick's
6 first bill, so please congratulate him.
7 (Standing ovation.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
9 Congratulations, Senator Reichlin-Melnick, on
10 your first bill.
11 The Secretary will read.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 72,
13 Assembly Print Number 1250, by Assemblymember
14 Gunther, an act to direct the Commissioner of
15 Mental Health to create a workgroup and report
16 regarding frontline worker trauma.
17 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Lay it
19 aside.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 80,
21 Senate Print 1309, by Senator Breslin, an act to
22 amend the Real Property Tax Law.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
24 the last section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
543
1 act shall take effect on the same date and in the
2 same manner as a chapter of the Laws of 2020.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
4 the roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
7 Ryan to explain his vote.
8 SENATOR RYAN: Thank you,
9 Mr. President.
10 Changes to 485-a were a long time in
11 coming in New York State. It was a program
12 originally designed to incentivize landlords and
13 developers to redo old buildings in New York
14 State, but boy did it fall far from its original
15 purpose.
16 We've had scandals in Albany, we've
17 had scandals in Syracuse, scandals in Buffalo,
18 people building buildings with a vending machine
19 in the basement and saying that is a mixed-use
20 building. We've had people building office
21 buildings with a bathroom in the laundry area to
22 say that makes it a mixed-use residential
23 building.
24 So we did some good work last year
25 or this year; this is a bill to do chapter
544
1 amendments on that. But the 485-a program as
2 it's been changed is going to get back to its
3 original purpose of rehabilitating old buildings.
4 And that's what we need. In our aging cities,
5 you can couple that with your historic tax
6 credits, and we're going to move our downtowns
7 forward.
8 So I thank you for the opportunity
9 to explain my vote, Mr. President, and I vote in
10 the affirmative.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
12 Ryan to be recorded in the affirmative.
13 Announce the results.
14 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
15 Calendar 80, those Senators voting in the
16 negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Boyle,
17 Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Jordan, Lanza,
18 Martucci, Mattera, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt,
19 Palumbo, Rath, Ritchie, Serino, Tedisco and Weik.
20 Ayes, 44. Nays, 19.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
22 bill is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 112, Senate Print 1353, by Senator Kavanagh, an
25 act to amend the Public Housing Law.
545
1 SENATOR GIANARIS: Lay it aside
2 temporarily.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Lay it
4 aside temporarily.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 122, Senate Print 590, by Senator Benjamin, an
7 act to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
9 the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
13 the roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
16 Announce the results.
17 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
18 Calendar 122, those Senators voting in the
19 negative are Senators Martucci and Skoufis.
20 Ayes, 61. Nays, 2.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
22 bill is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 124, Senate Print 112, by Senator Kaplan, an act
25 to amend the Executive Law.
546
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
2 the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
4 act shall take effect on the 90th day after it
5 shall have become a law.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
7 the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
10 Reichlin-Melnick to explain his vote.
11 SENATOR REICHLIN-MELNICK: Thank
12 you, Mr. President.
13 Housing discrimination has a long
14 and terrible history in this country. For more
15 than half of the 20th century, housing
16 discrimination was legal. Restrictive covenants
17 made whole neighborhoods off-limits to black or
18 Hispanic or Jewish buyers, and other groups.
19 Redlining was official government policy, and it
20 made it difficult or impossible for black buyers
21 to get mortgages. Suburban developments like
22 Levittown prevented black Americans, including
23 veterans, from buying homes. And when all this
24 failed, efforts to desegregate were often met
25 with violent racial attacks.
547
1 The Civil Rights Act and the
2 Fair Housing Act ended much of this
3 discrimination, but patterns of residential
4 housing segregation have persisted. Newsday's
5 reporting in 2019 showed this wasn't accidental.
6 Over a three-year period, Newsday conducted a
7 detailed experiment to assess discrimination in
8 the real estate industry on Long Island, using
9 so-called paired testers where two individuals
10 with similar finances but of different races
11 attempted to buy a house from a real estate
12 agent.
13 Newsday found discrimination against
14 Asian buyers in 19 percent of cases, against
15 Hispanic buyers in 39 percent of cases, and
16 against black buyers in 49 percent of cases.
17 While white buyers were steered to communities
18 that were overwhelmingly white, the minority
19 buyers were shown houses in neighborhoods that
20 already had higher concentrations of black,
21 Hispanic or Asian residents. And in other cases,
22 agents required documents and imposed conditions
23 on black, Hispanic and Asian buyers they did not
24 impose on white buyers.
25 In the aggregate, these actions
548
1 showed -- and they clearly perpetuated --
2 patterns of racial segregation.
3 So following Newsday's report, the
4 Senate took action with an investigation
5 conducted by three Senate committees, and a
6 report outlining findings and recommendations.
7 Today we're passing a number of bills that came
8 out of this investigation, and I'm proud to be
9 supporting them.
10 I just want to note that this bill
11 is particularly important because it requires the
12 Attorney General to conduct annual covert fair
13 housing testing to assess compliance with fair
14 housing laws throughout the state, essentially
15 taking Newsday's groundbreaking investigation
16 statewide and making it an ongoing feature of
17 state law.
18 These investigations will surely
19 uncover additional discrimination, but perhaps
20 most importantly, the knowledge that undercover
21 investigations are being conducted may have a
22 significant deterrent impact on real estate
23 agents who might be tempted to discriminate.
24 Passing this package will move New
25 York along the path of progress towards our goal,
549
1 where society is free of housing discrimination.
2 I'm proud to vote yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
4 Reichlin-Melnick to be recorded in the
5 affirmative.
6 Announce the results.
7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
9 bill is passed.
10 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
11 130, Senate Print 715, by Senator Thomas, an act
12 to amend the Executive Law.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
14 the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
18 the roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
21 Ryan to explain his vote.
22 SENATOR RYAN: Thank you,
23 Mr. President. I rise to explain my vote.
24 The Division of Human Rights was
25 established in New York State with all good
550
1 intentions to provide a streamlined mechanism to
2 resolve cases of housing discrimination. But
3 there was a big loophole built into the penalty
4 phase of this, and it limited what judges could
5 do if they found out that somebody had
6 discriminated.
7 And you often had cases where
8 somebody would be found to have discriminated,
9 but there was zero damages and zero penalties
10 available. Here is why, Mr. President.
11 Damages were only assessed if in
12 fact the person who was the victim of
13 discrimination couldn't find an apartment right
14 away, had to go to a homeless shelter. But in
15 upstate cities where there's a relatively soft
16 market, you could be discriminated against in the
17 morning and get an apartment in the afternoon.
18 And that would lead to a judge finding that the
19 landlord discriminated, but there is zero damages
20 and zero penalty.
21 This bill fixes this. And this bill
22 fixes this by allowing the judge, even if there's
23 no other damages, to put a penalty, a strict
24 penalty of $25,000 against somebody who
25 discriminates for their first time, up to $75,000
551
1 for repeat offenders.
2 This will send a message to the
3 landlord community throughout New York State that
4 we do not tolerate housing discrimination. And
5 it will give us the opportunity to continue to
6 strive to uphold the promise of the Fair Housing
7 Act of 1968.
8 So I thank Senator Thomas for his
9 hard work on this issue and identifying this way
10 to close the loophole. And, Mr. President, I
11 cast my vote in the affirmative.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
13 Ryan to be recorded in the affirmative.
14 Announce the results.
15 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
16 Calendar 130, those Senators voting in the
17 negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Gallivan,
18 Griffo, Helming, Jordan, Lanza, Oberacker,
19 O'Mara, Ortt, Rath and Stec.
20 Ayes, 51. Nays, 12.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
22 bill is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 225, Senate Print 538B, by Senator Kaplan, an act
25 to amend the Real Property Law.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
2 the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect on the 180th day after it
5 shall have become a law.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
7 the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
10 Kaplan to explain her vote.
11 SENATOR KAPLAN: Thank you,
12 Mr. President.
13 I want to start by thanking my
14 Majority colleagues for their partnership and
15 investigation and hearings that brought us here
16 today.
17 I'd also like to thank Newsday for
18 sparking the flame with their "Long Island
19 Divided" investigation series that uncovered the
20 widespread problem of minority homebuyers being
21 treated unequally on Long Island.
22 And most importantly, I'd like to
23 thank our Majority Leader, Andrea
24 Stewart-Cousins, for ensuring that this Majority
25 will always stand up for what's right and advance
553
1 a just agenda that supports all New Yorkers.
2 There's no disputing the fact that
3 we have a problem on Long Island when it comes to
4 unequal treatment of minority homebuyers. And we
5 also know that it is not a victimless crime or
6 offense, so it demands our action and attention.
7 Fixing this problem going forward,
8 and ensuring everyone is treated fairly, is going
9 to rely on better education and training for real
10 estate professionals as well as stronger
11 enforcement to deter bad actors from engaging in
12 harmful, illegal tactics.
13 I'm proud to sponsor this
14 legislation today as a part of the Senate
15 Majority's effort to ensure all homeowners are
16 treated equally, to ensure that all real estate
17 brokers and salespeople undergo implicit bias
18 education, and to set up a strong covert fair
19 housing testing program to ensure industry's
20 compliance with fair housing laws.
21 This package of legislation is an
22 important step forward, but by no means is the
23 end to our mission to ensure equal treatment for
24 all New Yorkers looking to start a family and
25 live their American dream. It is a task that
554
1 will require every one of us to continue to be
2 vigilant and to continue to speak out when we see
3 injustice taking place in our community.
4 And with that I proudly vote aye,
5 Mr. President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
7 Senator Kaplan to be recorded in the affirmative.
8 Announce the results.
9 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
10 Calendar Number 225, voting in the negative:
11 Senator Lanza.
12 Ayes, 62. Nays, 1.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
14 bill is passed.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 226, Senate Print 945B, by Senator Gaughran, an
17 act to amend the Real Property Law and the State
18 Finance Law.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
20 the last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
22 act shall take effect on the 60th day after it
23 shall have become a law.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
25 the roll.
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1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
3 Gaughran to explain his vote.
4 SENATOR GAUGHRAN: Thank you,
5 Mr. President.
6 Newsday's important investigation
7 revealed what so many of us already knew: Racial
8 discrimination and segregation continue to
9 persist on Long Island. That's why it's so
10 important for us as legislators to address this.
11 Last year we took a very important
12 first step and we passed legislation that I
13 sponsored that will now revoke the license of a
14 real estate broker or salesperson if they violate
15 our human rights laws.
16 We continue to hold hearings, to
17 deliberate. And I want to thank Leader
18 Stewart-Cousins for making all of this happen and
19 moving this along.
20 And you know, we are in a pandemic.
21 We're dealing with very difficult health issues,
22 economic issues. But, you know, in the State
23 Legislature we can deal with other issues as
24 well. And that's why I am so proud of this
25 package and also the legislation that I am
556
1 sponsoring today which will create an
2 Antidiscrimination in Housing Fund.
3 This will help to bring us to a more
4 equitable society here in New York, and it will
5 make sure that it doesn't matter, you are
6 entitled to the American dream, whether it's on
7 Long Island or anywhere in this state, regardless
8 of your race, religion, national origin, skin
9 color, creed, sexual orientation, gender identity
10 or expression, age, military status, sex, marital
11 status or disability.
12 I vote in the affirmative,
13 Mr. President. Thank you.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
15 Gaughran to be recorded in the affirmative.
16 Announce the results.
17 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
18 Calendar 226, those Senators voting in the
19 negative are Senators Gallivan, Oberacker and
20 O'Mara.
21 Ayes, 60. Nays, 3.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
23 bill is passed.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 227, Senate Print 1448, by Senator Hoylman, an
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1 act to amend the Real Property Law.
2 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Lay it
4 aside.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 229, Senate Print 2131A, by Senator Skoufis, an
7 act to amend the Real Property Law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
9 the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
13 the roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
16 Announce the results.
17 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
18 Calendar Number 229, those Senators voting in the
19 negative are Senators Griffo, Lanza, Oberacker
20 and Tedisco.
21 Ayes, 59. Nays, 4.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
23 bill is passed.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 230, Senate Print 2132B, by Senator Skoufis, an
558
1 act to amend the Real Property Law.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
3 the last section.
4 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
5 act shall take effect on the first of July.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
7 the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
10 Announce the results.
11 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
12 Calendar 230, those Senators voting in the
13 negative are Senators Borrello, Helming, Lanza,
14 Oberacker and Rath.
15 Ayes, 58. Nays, 5.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
17 bill is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 231, Senate Print 2133A, by Senator Skoufis, an
20 act to amend the Real Property Law.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
22 the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
24 act shall take effect immediately.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
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1 the roll.
2 (The Secretary called the roll.)
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
4 Senator Serino to explain her vote.
5 SENATOR SERINO: Thank you,
6 Mr. President.
7 Since taking office, I have not
8 supported bills that would increase or implement
9 new fees. I have a personal conflict with this
10 bill in particular, and as such I've asked to be
11 excused from voting on it.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Without
13 objection, so ordered.
14 SENATOR SERINO: Thank you,
15 Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
17 Announce the results.
18 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
19 Calendar 231, those Senators voting in the
20 negative are Senators Addabbo, Akshar, Borrello,
21 Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Jordan, Lanza,
22 Martucci, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo,
23 Ritchie, Stec, Tedisco and Weik.
24 Ayes, 45. Nays, 17. Senator Serino
25 excused.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
2 bill is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 232, Senate Print 2157A, by Senator Thomas, an
5 act to amend the Real Property Law.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
7 the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
11 the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
14 Thomas to explain his vote.
15 SENATOR THOMAS: Thank you,
16 Mr. President.
17 I also want to thank the leader for
18 pushing forward this package on housing
19 discrimination, because this should not be
20 happening in our communities again.
21 In 2019, Newsday published a
22 three-year investigation of discrimination by
23 real estate agents, revealing evidence of
24 widespread separate and unequal treatment of
25 minority potential homebuyers and minority
561
1 communities on Long Island. Additionally, the
2 investigation revealed that Long Island's
3 dominant residential brokering firms appeared to
4 be helping to solidify racial separations.
5 In response, the New York State
6 Senate conducted three separate hearings after
7 subpoenas were served on agents and brokers. The
8 testimony revealed several issues, including lack
9 of supervision and lack of deterrence, among
10 other issues.
11 In order to rectify the lack of
12 deterrence, I introduced S715, which passed this
13 house a few minutes ago, designed to deter
14 violations of the Human Rights Law in relation to
15 fair housing discrimination. Fines are increased
16 to 25,000 for the first offense, 50,000 for the
17 second, and 75,000 for the third.
18 And in order to rectify the lack of
19 supervision, I introduced this current bill,
20 S2157A, to hold office managers to the same
21 standard as licensed real estate brokers.
22 For many Americans, owning a home is
23 a step towards obtaining their American dream.
24 The purchase of a home is a huge financial
25 decision for potential buyers, and the real
562
1 estate industry should be acting ethically.
2 These two bills, along with those
3 filed by my colleagues, are going to make sure
4 this does not happen again. Discrimination has
5 no place in our communities.
6 I vote in the affirmative. Thank
7 you.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
9 Thomas to be recorded in the affirmative.
10 Announce the results.
11 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
12 Calendar 232, those Senators voting in the
13 negative are Senators Gallivan, Griffo, Lanza,
14 Oberacker, O'Mara, Rath and Tedisco.
15 Ayes, 56. Nays, 7.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
17 bill is passed.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 233, Senate Print 2525A, by Senator Kavanagh, an
20 act to amend the Real Property Law.
21 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Lay it
23 aside.
24 Senator Gianaris, that completes the
25 reading of today's calendar.
563
1 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
2 can we go back to Calendar 112, remove the
3 temporary lay-aside, and take that bill up,
4 please.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
6 Secretary will read.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 112, Senate Print 1353, by Senator Kavanagh, an
9 act to amend the Public Housing Law.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
11 the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
13 act shall take effect immediately.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
15 the roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
18 Kavanagh to explain his vote.
19 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Thank you,
20 Mr. President, and distinguished colleagues both
21 here in the chamber and participating in today's
22 proceedings remotely.
23 I rise to explain my vote on Senate
24 Bill 1353, which establishes an obligation to
25 affirmatively further fair housing among state
564
1 agencies and those receiving state housing funds.
2 As you know, Mr. President, this
3 bill, along with the entire legislative package
4 that we're taking up today, seeks to put an end
5 to widespread discriminatory practices that were
6 detailed first by an extraordinary exposé
7 published by Newsday, on Long Island, and
8 subsequently detailed in a lengthy report on fair
9 housing that was recently issued by Senators
10 Skoufis, Thomas and myself and the Committees on
11 Housing, Construction and Community Development,
12 Investigations and Government Operations, and
13 Consumer Protection.
14 The report and much of today's
15 package is based on testimony from stakeholders
16 at the two Senate hearings; document requests; of
17 course Newsday's findings, and various policy
18 meetings and research conducted by members of the
19 committee and the committee staff.
20 This bill intends to address housing
21 discrimination as it manifests itself across the
22 state, not just in the home sale market, which
23 was the focus of Newsday, but the broad range
24 that we see discrimination. It seeks to amend
25 the Public Housing Law in relation to
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1 establishing that requirement of affirmatively
2 furthering fair housing.
3 Mr. President, that means going
4 beyond merely refraining from discrimination or
5 enforcing minimal standards. It requires that
6 housing agencies and other state agencies,
7 anybody involved in the housing space, and any
8 locality receiving housing money of any kind from
9 the state, to take meaningful steps to further
10 our goal of fair housing by identifying and
11 overcoming patterns of segregation, eradicating
12 racially and ethnically concentrated areas of
13 poverty, and reducing disparities in opportunity
14 and eliminating disproportionate needs for
15 housing that are being unmet.
16 The purpose of the bill and the
17 entire legislative package, to provide
18 transparency and accountability in the housing
19 industry for the benefit of all New Yorkers.
20 Now, I would note that this is not a
21 new idea. The Fair Housing Act at the federal
22 level in 1968 required a statutory requirement
23 that all federal recipients of money
24 affirmatively further fair housing. There was an
25 attempt early on to implement that, but it
566
1 largely went dormant for many years until the
2 Obama administration in 2015 put forth a set of
3 regulations that were intended to implement it.
4 Unfortunately, the Trump
5 administration effectively suspended those
6 regulations and made it such that that obligation
7 is no longer in effect at the moment for much of
8 the country.
9 The report we've put out urges the
10 Biden administration to reinstate that at the
11 federal level. But in the meantime, it's a great
12 step forward to be reinstating at the state
13 level.
14 I'd like to again thank our leader,
15 Senators Skoufis and Thomas, who cochaired the
16 hearings, and all of our colleagues that
17 participated in this process. It's my hope that
18 our legislation, including this bill and the
19 others in the package, will usher in a new era of
20 equality and justice for homebuyers and renters
21 throughout the state.
22 And with that, Mr. President, I vote
23 aye.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
25 Kavanagh to be recorded in the affirmative.
567
1 Senator Jackson to explain his vote.
2 SENATOR JACKSON: Thank you,
3 Mr. President. And, my colleagues, I rise this
4 afternoon in order to support this bill that was
5 just introduced and explained by
6 Senator Kavanagh.
7 Housing is a human right. And
8 housing discrimination denies people that right.
9 And it is evident that fair housing advances
10 economic opportunities and helps close the wealth
11 gap that has historically disadvantaged
12 communities of color for generations.
13 Our communities of color are still
14 reeling from the devastating effects of
15 decades-long discriminatory practices, including
16 redlining and disinvestment in communities. As a
17 legislator, I know.
18 As an African-American black man,
19 26 years old, I was discriminated, in my opinion,
20 when I was looking for an apartment in Washington
21 Heights, where I currently live. When I went and
22 asked for an application because I saw all of
23 these windows vacant on the third floor, the
24 super said, "I'm sorry, we have somebody we gave
25 the application already. So when we give out an
568
1 application, we don't give out any more." I
2 said, "Well, how do you know that they will
3 qualify," this, that and the other. The bottom
4 line, I left without an application.
5 I found out where the managing agent
6 office was, and I went out there. And at the
7 time I was working for the State of New York. I
8 know I didn't show my badge. I may have given
9 him my business card, which said "State of
10 New York, Department of Labor Special Agent."
11 Well, I got an application. And
12 they said, "You know that you would have to
13 produce your W-2s," and I said "No problem."
14 "You know you would have to produce your wife's
15 W-2." "No problem." Within a week, I had the
16 apartment.
17 Now, did I go into court? I didn't
18 have to go into court. But I do know that
19 approximately a year or two later that a black
20 couple went up to Riverdale to look for an
21 apartment, and they saw it and they said, "I'm
22 sorry, it has already been taken." And they felt
23 that they were getting shafted, being
24 discriminated against, and they went to
25 Fair Housing. And the Fair Housing people sent a
569
1 white couple up there with the same basic
2 educational level and the same income -- and no
3 problem, they got the apartment. Well, it was in
4 the New York Times about the discriminatory
5 practices.
6 So as a legislator, I am actively
7 seeking to create more diverse inclusive
8 communities, whether it's upstate, in the
9 Hudson Valley or Long Island or in New York City.
10 We are working together in this chamber to
11 overcome historic segregation patterns and
12 eradicate racially and ethnically concentrated
13 poverty areas.
14 This legislation paves the way for
15 our state agencies to affirmatively further fair
16 housing is their mission moving forward.
17 Strengthening the state's role in this matter
18 will help us combat the systemic challenges like
19 those that cropped up on Long Island in recent
20 years and the ones that I described which
21 happened a long time ago.
22 It will also help us to achieve a
23 generally fair housing and prevent discrimination
24 in public and private housing, protecting tenants
25 and buyers alike.
570
1 My thanks to Senator Kavanagh for
2 drafting this bill, and to the other drafters of
3 the bills in this package for your work in
4 advancing a fair housing framework that moves us
5 towards justice.
6 I proudly, Mr. President, vote aye.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
8 Jackson to be recorded in the affirmative.
9 Announce the results.
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
12 bill is passed.
13 Senator Gianaris.
14 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
15 can we take up the controversial calendar now.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
17 Secretary will ring the bell.
18 The Secretary will read.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 72,
20 Assembly Print Number 1250, by Assemblymember
21 Gunther, an act to be direct the Commissioner of
22 Mental Health to create a workgroup and report
23 regarding frontline worker trauma.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
25 Lanza, why do you rise?
571
1 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, I
2 believe there's an amendment at the desk. I ask
3 that we waive the reading of that amendment and
4 recognize Senator Jordan to be heard.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Thank
6 you, Senator Lanza. Upon review of the
7 amendment, in accordance with Rule VI, Section
8 4B, I rule it nongermane and out of order at this
9 time.
10 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President,
11 accordingly, I appeal the ruling of the chair and
12 ask that Senator Jordan be recognized.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
14 appeal has been made and recognized, and
15 Senator Jordan may be heard.
16 SENATOR JORDAN: Thank you,
17 Mr. President.
18 I rise to appeal the ruling of the
19 chair. The proposed amendment is germane to the
20 bill at hand, because the bill at hand deals
21 specifically with the trauma that frontline
22 workers experience.
23 As we have maneuvered throughout
24 COVID-19, our frontline workers have had
25 countless executive orders implemented by
572
1 Governor Cuomo. There has been a lack of clarity
2 and order with these numerous orders, and now we
3 are hearing about one of the latest directives.
4 The amendment I put forth on behalf
5 of our conference would finally restore checks
6 and balances of our state government and see the
7 State Legislature become a coequal branch of
8 government once again.
9 This will be the 12th time that we
10 find ourselves in a position to reassert
11 ourselves and reestablish the necessary
12 separation of powers so vital to our democracy.
13 The case has been made by my Senate
14 Republican colleagues and me all year, even
15 stemming backing to last May, when we first
16 forced a vote on this motion. New Yorkers have
17 endured the arbitrary economic restrictions, the
18 fumbled vaccine rollout, and the disastrous and
19 deadly nursing home scandal. Fast forward to
20 today. Governor Cuomo and his administration are
21 still neck deep in these controversies. In fact,
22 these things have gotten worse.
23 And what has the state done to
24 restore the necessary checks and balances? We've
25 heard threat after threat, but that's all it's
573
1 been so far: All talk and no action.
2 On vaccines, finally, we saw the
3 Governor last week, without any advance notice,
4 add new eligibility for New Yorkers with
5 comorbidities. My colleagues and I love the
6 idea, but we wish we could see more collaboration
7 between the Executive and local governments in
8 vaccinating more New Yorkers. Keep in mind that
9 our county governments have been ready, willing
10 and able to administer mass vaccine in instances
11 such as this pandemic.
12 In terms of economic restrictions
13 imposed by the Governor, to give an example that
14 hits close to home in my 43rd Senate District,
15 does it make any sense why bowling alleys are
16 open yet so many billiard halls remain closed?
17 They operate in much the same way. Bowling
18 alleys have reserved lanes; billiard halls,
19 reserved tables. Both clean equipment used
20 between reserved groups. Both can provide social
21 distancing while playing the game.
22 The Governor refuses to explain his
23 arbitrary edicts unless he finds time in one of
24 his press briefings -- where reporters aren't
25 even given adequate time to ask important
574
1 questions.
2 But this is what happens when you
3 put one person in charge and when one person
4 overstays his time. The Governor is not a king.
5 One-person rule is antithetical to democracy.
6 Another thing that happens when one
7 person is put in charge, that person starts to
8 mistakenly believe he's unaccountable to anyone
9 but himself.
10 We all saw the AG's bombshell report
11 on nursing homes. We've seen the mass exodus of
12 Health Department officials. And I'm sure you've
13 seen our conference's calls for an independent
14 investigation, calls that have been ongoing for
15 months.
16 This issue is a stain on the
17 Governor and a disgrace to the entire state. The
18 nation needs to stop its stonewalling. And
19 that's why I'm urging the Senate Majority to stop
20 turning a blind eye to his administration's
21 failings today.
22 Again, today will mark the 12th time
23 we vote on this commonsense good-government
24 amendment. Ten times since the beginning of this
25 year. But forget the past. Stand with us today.
575
1 We know for a fact that some of you want to. So
2 do it. Stand with us now. This issue is bigger
3 than partisan politics. It's about doing what's
4 right and the State Legislature reasserting its
5 rightful prerogative as a coequal branch of our
6 state government.
7 Nothing is stopping our colleagues
8 from voting on this amendment today, at least
9 nothing we know about publicly. We all know it's
10 the right thing to do. For these reasons,
11 Mr. President, I strongly urge you to reconsider
12 your ruling.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Thank
14 you, Senator Jordan.
15 I want to remind the house that the
16 vote is on the procedures of the house and the
17 ruling of the chair.
18 Those in favor of overruling the
19 chair signify by saying aye.
20 SENATOR LANZA: Request a show of
21 hands.
22 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
23 we've agreed to waive the showing of hands and
24 record each member of the Minority in the
25 affirmative.
576
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Without
2 objection, so ordered.
3 Announce the results.
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 20.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
6 ruling of the chair stands, and the bill-in-chief
7 is before the house.
8 Are there any other Senators wishing
9 to be heard?
10 Seeing and hearing none, the debate
11 is closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
12 Read the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
14 act shall take effect on the same date and in the
15 same manner as a chapter of the Laws of 2020.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
17 the roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
20 Brouk to explain her vote.
21 SENATOR BROUK: Good afternoon,
22 everyone.
23 We're living through unprecedented
24 times right now, and this piece of legislation
25 will provide much-needed research on the adverse
577
1 effects of COVID-19 on the essential frontline
2 workers who have tirelessly supported New Yorkers
3 throughout this pandemic.
4 Just last week I hosted a virtual
5 town hall on the mental health needs of essential
6 workers in the 55th District in Rochester, and we
7 heard from more than 100 of our community's
8 healthcare providers, teachers, laborers and
9 small business owners who are struggling with not
10 just their physical health, but also their mental
11 health, as they keep our communities running.
12 They shared stories of juggling
13 childcare at home, work outside of the home, and
14 worrying about keeping their families safe and
15 cared-for while they care for us. Workers told
16 of the mental stress of working long days under
17 impossible conditions with little time to rest,
18 reflect or recover.
19 But anecdotal evidence is not
20 enough. We need this task force to study and
21 report out on the adverse impacts that COVID-19
22 is having on our frontline workers. And even
23 more crucially, our government and our service
24 providers need these recommendations to
25 effectively meet those workers' mental health
578
1 needs.
2 I'm proud to support this bill today
3 to ensure that our essential workers are heard,
4 understood and acknowledged, and that they get
5 the care they need after they have cared for us
6 so well during this pandemic.
7 Thank you.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
9 Brouk to be recorded in the affirmative.
10 Announce the results.
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
13 bill is passed.
14 Senator Gianaris.
15 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
16 let's celebrate Senator Samra Brouk's first bill.
17 (Standing ovation.)
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
19 Congratulations to Senator Brouk on your first
20 bill.
21 The Secretary will read.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 227, Senate Print 1448, by Senator Hoylman, an
24 act to amend the Real Property Law.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
579
1 Boyle.
2 SENATOR BOYLE: Will the sponsor
3 yield for some questions?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Will
5 the Senator yield?
6 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Mr. President,
7 standing in for the sponsor, I'm happy to yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
9 Senator yields.
10 SENATOR BOYLE: I didn't realize it
11 was going to be you. This is going to be a
12 tougher one now.
13 (Laughter.)
14 SENATOR KAVANAGH: I won't tell
15 Senator Hoylman.
16 (Laughter.)
17 SENATOR BOYLE: Mr. President, I
18 would like to ask a question. I believe, it
19 seems to me, that this is a solution in search of
20 a problem. I've done hundreds and hundreds of
21 closings and have never seen this issue of a
22 signature.
23 So this bill would require the
24 Secretary of State of New York to promulgate
25 rules requiring real estate brokers and
580
1 salespersons to legibly write his or her name and
2 license number on any document requiring a
3 signature. It's my understanding that the
4 New York State Department of State has not
5 received a single complaint of a consumer being
6 unable to identify a real estate salesperson or
7 broker.
8 My question to you, Senator, is do
9 you have any examples of members of the public
10 who have been harmed or fraudulently mistreated
11 by a real estate professional who has been
12 seeking a signature and not being able to find
13 them?
14 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Thank you,
15 Mr. President.
16 Yeah, this bill originated with some
17 concerns that were raised in Queens by former
18 Assemblymember Michael DenDekker, who originally
19 drafted the bill, where it appeared that someone
20 was attempting to pass themselves off as a real
21 estate professional licensed by the state, but
22 was not in fact so.
23 So the idea of this bill is -- the
24 initial idea of this bill was simply that there
25 be a clear identification. We issue brokers and
581
1 salespeople a number, they are required by law
2 already to carry a card that has identifying
3 information, but the public is generally unaware
4 of that.
5 This bill, as my colleague has
6 noted, only applies when the licensed
7 professional is required to sign a document. And
8 it simply requires that they identify themselves
9 clearly with a printed name and this number
10 that's already been issued to them.
11 SENATOR BOYLE: Mr. President, on
12 the bill.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
14 Boyle on the bill.
15 SENATOR BOYLE: As the Senator
16 said, this is already done, basically. Real
17 estate professionals are required to carry a card
18 that clearly mentions their name and real estate
19 number. There are identifying features.
20 There are some bad apples, probably,
21 but there are ways to do this without making it
22 law that they legibly write their name and
23 number.
24 I would just say that there's a good
25 number of these bills. I commend Newsday for the
582
1 investigation. And I think that part of the
2 answer is training. Some of these bills do that;
3 I think it's great.
4 I would say that when these training
5 classes do take place, they should include one of
6 the most important things. None of us want to
7 see discrimination in real estate. Just make it
8 illegal or prohibit real estate professionals
9 from answering any questions about school
10 districts.
11 When I read the articles in Newsday
12 and I attended the hearings down on Long Island,
13 the vast majority of these realtors are honest,
14 not racists, not bigots, good people. I know
15 personally a couple of them that were involved in
16 the articles. They just simply answered
17 questions about the school districts which were
18 problematic.
19 We don't want to have any
20 discrimination, and this bill is not the answer.
21 So I'll vote in the negative on this.
22 Thank you, Mr. President.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Are
24 there any other Senators wishing to be heard?
25 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
583
1 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
2 Read the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
6 the roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
9 Announce the results.
10 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
11 Calendar Number 227, those Senators voting in the
12 negative are Senators Addabbo, Akshar, Borrello,
13 Boyle, Cooney, Gallivan, Gaughran, Griffo,
14 Helming, Jordan, Lanza, Martucci, Mattera,
15 Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rath,
16 Reichlin-Melnick, Ritchie, Serino, Skoufis, Stec
17 and Tedisco.
18 Ayes, 39. Nays, 24.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
20 bill is passed.
21 The Secretary will read.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 233, Senate Print 2525A, by Senator Kavanagh, an
24 act to amend the Real Property Law.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
584
1 Martucci.
2 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Thank you,
3 Mr. President. Through you, will the sponsor
4 yield for a question?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
6 the Senator yield?
7 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Happy to do so,
8 Mr. President. Happy to be back, feeling more
9 myself now.
10 (Laughter.)
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Thank you,
14 Mr. President.
15 This bill requires every real estate
16 broker and every real estate agent to collect
17 demographic data on every real estate
18 transaction. And we're talking about properties
19 listed or shown, the location of such properties,
20 the disposition of every offer received, and
21 whether or not a closing occurred.
22 How is the Department of State
23 equipped in terms of funding, staffing, and
24 overall capability to handle the expansive amount
25 of data that will be sent in from the state's
585
1 approximately 50,000 real estate agents and
2 brokers?
3 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
4 Mr. President.
5 As has been noted, this legislation
6 will require licensed brokers and salespersons to
7 request voluntary disclosure of various
8 demographic data that all relates to protected
9 characteristics under current law, and to retain
10 such data and to provide a report to the
11 Secretary of State.
12 I would note that this bill comes
13 out of recommendations from Professors Max
14 Besbris of the University of Wisconsin and Jacob
15 Faber of NYU, and also our Fred Freiberg, who is
16 of the Fair Housing Justice Center, all of whom
17 were very instrumental in the committees' work on
18 the package that we're seeing today.
19 But my colleague is misunderstanding
20 the aspect of the bill that requires data to be
21 reported to the Secretary of State. The bill
22 requires the details of this to be retained for
23 two years by the broker or the salesperson, but
24 it only requires that a summary of that data be
25 provided annually to the Secretary of State, in a
586
1 form that the Secretary of State would provide.
2 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Thank you.
3 Mr. President, will the sponsor
4 continue to yield?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
6 the sponsor yield?
7 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
8 Mr. President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR MARTUCCI: This bill memo
12 indicates that there will be a cost to the state
13 to implement the bill. Does the bill include any
14 appropriation to cover the cost?
15 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
16 Mr. President, we don't believe that there would
17 be a substantial cost to this bill. There are
18 other bills in this package that expand the
19 funding available for fair housing work, and we
20 think this is very much a part of that.
21 But on the other hand, we're in the
22 midst of a budget process, and the Executive
23 agencies are certainly free, if they think that
24 this is more than the usual cost that might be
25 added by a routine incremental change in their
587
1 very substantial regulatory responsibilities,
2 they're free to certainly request additional
3 appropriations for that.
4 I will notice that every single
5 person who is required to submit this report is
6 already paying a pretty substantial fee to be
7 licensed by the state. And this should be a very
8 minimal cost of the overall cost of regulating
9 those sales professionals.
10 SENATOR MARTUCCI: On the bill,
11 Mr. President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
13 Martucci on the bill.
14 SENATOR MARTUCCI: I want to begin
15 by thanking my colleague Senator Kavanagh for
16 answering my questions and addressing my
17 questions today.
18 What we have here I believe is a
19 very well meaning piece of legislation, but like
20 much of what goes on here in this chamber and in
21 Albany in general, it's being passed without
22 knowing what the real cost to taxpayers will be
23 and where the money will come from to
24 successfully implement the suggested program.
25 This is exactly the kind of thing
588
1 that the folks in my district are so frustrated
2 with. This bill, and others that we're
3 considering here today, assumes bad intent on the
4 part of nearly 50,000 real estate agents
5 operating in our state, and places additional
6 burdens on all of them for the alleged past sins
7 of just a few.
8 Because this bill has a fiscal
9 impact but provides no funding, and because it
10 does not demonstrate that the Department of State
11 can effectively handle these new
12 responsibilities, I'm forced to oppose this
13 legislation.
14 Thank you, Mr. President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
16 Palumbo.
17 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
18 Mr. President. Would the sponsor yield for a
19 question, please.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
21 the sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
23 Mr. President.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
25 sponsor yields.
589
1 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
2 Senator Kavanagh.
3 Just by way of clarification, on
4 page 1, lines 10, 11, 12, 13 there, generally, if
5 the client refuses to give the information, or
6 gives an incomplete answer, would the broker be
7 in compliance with their duties under this
8 proposed legislation?
9 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes.
10 SENATOR PALUMBO: And would the
11 sponsor yield for another question, please.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
13 the sponsor yield?
14 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes,
15 Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
19 Senator.
20 And if they are noncompliant, could
21 you please describe what the sanction would be
22 for that willful or even negligent noncompliance?
23 And that's kind of two questions in one, if you
24 don't mind breaking that up. Or if you'd like me
25 to, I certainly will.
590
1 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
2 Mr. President. If the -- I assume that the -- my
3 colleague's question refers to if the broker or
4 the salesperson were not complying with this new
5 requirement. The Secretary of State has broad
6 authority to oversee this industry and the
7 licensed professionals under it, and violating
8 this rule, like violating many other rules, might
9 result in a decision by the Secretary of State to
10 take enforcement action.
11 But there's no specific penalty
12 associated with this particular collection or
13 data requirement that this bill would impose.
14 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
15 Senator. And would you yield for one more
16 question, please. Through you, Mr. President.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
18 the sponsor yield?
19 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Yes.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
23 Senator.
24 And I see here there's kind of a
25 catch-all section, 442-e of the Real Property
591
1 Law, on violations, that it would ultimately be
2 that the Attorney General would prosecute it, but
3 the penalty would ultimately be a misdemeanor, in
4 the first few lines of it: "Misdemeanors;
5 triable in court of special sessions. Any person
6 who violates any provision of this article shall
7 be guilty of a misdemeanor," of a crime. And by
8 reference, that of course would now include this
9 new section, 442-m.
10 So my question to you is in light of
11 the fact that your proposed legislation is
12 silent, it's ultimately a crime for
13 noncompliance, just so I can be clear, if a
14 broker does not comply with this newly proposed
15 legislation that's before us here today.
16 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Through you,
17 Mr. President. Would my colleague mind, since
18 the provision he's citing is not in the bill
19 before us, if he could repeat the section of law
20 that he's referring to, just so we can take a
21 look?
22 SENATOR PALUMBO: Certainly.
23 certainly. It's 442-e. And this is a proposed
24 section -- in Section 1. The proposed bill is
25 442-m. So it's earlier in that title.
592
1 It just says "Violations. Section
2 1. Misdemeanors; triable in court of special
3 sessions. Any person who violates any provision
4 of this article shall be guilty of a
5 misdemeanor."
6 And I can read further, if you'd
7 like. "The commission of a single act prohibited
8 by this article shall constitute a violation
9 thereof. All courts of special session, within
10 their respective territorial jurisdictions, are
11 hereby empowered to hear, try and determine such
12 crimes, without indictment, and to impose the
13 punishments described by law therefor."
14 So actually, now that I read all the
15 way through, that's somewhat inconsistent in its
16 own language.
17 But it would at least be a
18 violation. In the way that I read this, that any
19 violation of the overall article would ultimately
20 be a misdemeanor. And that's where I'm looking
21 for some clarification, if you don't mind,
22 Senator. Through the president.
23 (Brief pause.)
24 SENATOR KAVANAGH: So, you know,
25 just wanted to consult with counsel, since again
593
1 that provision is not before us in this bill.
2 But just generally -- just to
3 respond, first of all, generally, there are a
4 variety of provisions in the Real Property Law,
5 and that provision that you're speaking of seems
6 to have been on the books for a while. And yet
7 it does not -- it does not -- we did discuss this
8 bill at some length with representatives of the
9 industry, including the realtors themselves, as
10 well as others in the real estate industry. The
11 objections we've gotten to date have not been
12 about subjecting anybody to a misdemeanor, but
13 more the kind of -- you know, the complexity
14 of -- the administrative burden of complying with
15 this, and how it might affect their interactions
16 with customers.
17 Having said that, you know, you
18 raise an important point. We will take a look at
19 it. It is not our intent to create a -- you
20 know, a misdemeanor out of a minor violation of
21 the law. Perhaps if somebody were willfully and
22 consistently refusing to comply with a law like
23 this, maybe it would be elevated to that.
24 But, you know, you raised the point
25 and we will take a look it and certainly ensure
594
1 that we have a clear understanding of that before
2 it is signed into law.
3 SENATOR PALUMBO: Terrific. Thank
4 you, Senator.
5 On the bill, Mr. President, please.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
7 Palumbo on the bill.
8 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you.
9 And, Senator Kavanagh, I certainly
10 do appreciate that clarification, and I do
11 appreciate the fact that you're going to
12 certainly take a look at that, because obviously
13 this is very important data that we need to
14 compile.
15 As stated by some of my colleagues
16 on this floor, that investigation revealed some
17 atrocities that we all are offended by, and we
18 need to make sure we get to the bottom of it.
19 And I get it. And I'm sure this is absolutely
20 the appropriate and laudable intent.
21 But unfortunately, with -- I think
22 generally that article is not the best drafted
23 article under the Real Property Law that I've
24 seen. We have a lot of issues with it, I think
25 generally, that kind of overlap. But as a
595
1 catch-all provision, that's a concern. That I
2 don't think the failure to just collect
3 information -- that I would suggest is a little
4 bit sensitive to get from someone, to ask them in
5 your first interaction with them, You want to be
6 a client, and I would like to know all of this
7 personal information, including ethnicity,
8 origin, ethnic origin, those sort of things --
9 gender, how you're identifying. I think that
10 this may open up a can of worms.
11 But we need to get to that result in
12 a reasonable fashion. And I think we're all in
13 agreement with that. I would just ask that we
14 certainly take a further review on the language
15 of this bill, because I think that the unintended
16 consequence will be quite severe.
17 Thank you, Mr. President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Are
19 there any other Senators wishing to be heard?
20 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
21 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
22 Read the last section.
23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
24 act shall take effect on the 90th day after it
25 shall have become a law.
596
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
2 the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
5 Kavanagh to explain his vote.
6 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Thank you,
7 Mr. President. I appreciate the opportunity to
8 explain my vote and clarify just a couple of
9 points that were raised by colleagues in today's
10 debate.
11 First of all, one of my colleagues
12 mentioned that this is a broad response to a few
13 wrongdoers. I just want to note that the Newsday
14 investigation and our subsequent investigation
15 really did demonstrate that a lot of these
16 behaviors that a bill like this is addressed at,
17 and the other bills in the package are addressed
18 at, are really widespread. In about half of all
19 instances where a black prospective homebuyer
20 walked into a broker's office in Long Island,
21 they experienced discriminatory treatment. And
22 that has been well-documented now.
23 So a bill like this that is intended
24 to create a broad framework to understand how
25 this process is working for all homebuyers in the
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1 state is really sorely needed.
2 The second thing I would just note,
3 my colleague mentioned that this is sensitive
4 information. Race and ethnicity and gender are
5 of course sensitive topics for some, but it is
6 not unusual these days for us to be asked basic
7 demographic information to provide on a voluntary
8 basis for the purpose of ensuring that other
9 entities are complying with their obligations to
10 be fair and to treat people equally.
11 So I would envision this being done
12 like many other forums, where you're asked these
13 questions, it's clear that it's optional, you can
14 skip them if you want to, or you can include them
15 if you desire as a client.
16 It should be noted that systems like
17 this do collect a great deal of demographic data,
18 even though they're voluntarily. And in fact,
19 this bill is modeled on a current law which is
20 national which requires every single mortgage
21 application to include this kind of demographic
22 data and the outcome of that application. And in
23 that case, as my colleague noted, it would be
24 burdensome for the administrative agency and the
25 enforcement agency to receive all the individual
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1 transactions with respect to mortgages. That is
2 the law. The -- each client in that information
3 is reported directly.
4 In this case, all we're doing is
5 having an annual summary of this data. We think
6 this is a reasonable balancing act for a very big
7 problem that we've seen. And we think that this
8 will be part -- along with the rest of this
9 package, be part of our state digging our way out
10 of what we view as a very significant problem.
11 And with that, I'll be voting in the
12 affirmative.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
14 Kavanagh to be recorded in the affirmative.
15 Announce the results.
16 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
17 Calendar 233, those Senators voting in the
18 negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Boyle,
19 Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Jordan, Lanza,
20 Martucci, Mattera, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt,
21 Palumbo, Rath, Ritchie, Serino, Stec, Tedisco and
22 Weik.
23 Ayes, 43. Nays, 20.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
25 bill is passed.
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1 Senator Gianaris, that completes the
2 reading of the controversial calendar.
3 SENATOR GIANARIS: Is there any
4 further business at the desk?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: There
6 is no further business at the desk.
7 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to adjourn
8 until tomorrow, Tuesday, February 9th, at
9 3:00 p.m.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: On
11 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
12 Tuesday, February 9th, at 3:00 p.m.
13 (Whereupon, at 4:50 p.m., the Senate
14 adjourned.)
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