657
1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE
2
3
4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
5
6
7
8
9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 February 10, 2021
11 11:16 a.m.
12
13
14 REGULAR SESSION
15
16
17
18 SENATOR BRIAN A. BENJAMIN, Acting President
19 ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary
20
21
22
23
24
25
658
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
3 Senate will come to order.
4 I ask everyone present to please
5 rise and recite the Pledge of Allegiance.
6 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited
7 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: In the
9 absence of clergy, let us bow our heads in a
10 moment of silent reflection or prayer.
11 (Whereupon, the assemblage respected
12 a moment of silence.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Reading
14 of the Journal.
15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, Tuesday,
16 February 9, 2021, the Senate met pursuant to
17 adjournment. The Journal of Monday, February 8,
18 2021, was read and approved. On motion, Senate
19 adjourned.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Without
21 objection, the Journal stands approved as read.
22 Presentation of petitions.
23 Messages from the Assembly.
24 The Secretary will read.
25 THE SECRETARY: Senator Mannion
659
1 moves to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,
2 Assembly Bill Number 4686 and substitute it for
3 the identical Senate Bill 4380, Third Reading
4 Calendar 313.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
6 substitution is so ordered.
7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Ramos moves
8 to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,
9 Assembly Bill Number 4447 and substitute it for
10 the identical Senate Bill 4381, Third Reading
11 Calendar 314.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
13 substitution is so ordered.
14 THE SECRETARY: Senator Savino
15 moves to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,
16 Assembly Bill Number 4357 and substitute it for
17 the identical Senate Bill 4382, Third Reading
18 Calendar 315.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
20 substitution is so ordered.
21 Messages from the Governor.
22 Reports of standing committees.
23 Reports of select committees.
24 Communications and reports from
25 state officers.
660
1 Motions and resolutions.
2 Senator Gianaris.
3 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
4 on behalf of Senator Mayer, on page 24 I offer
5 the following amendments to Calendar 245, Senate
6 136A, and ask that said bill retain its place on
7 Third Reading Calendar.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
9 amendments are received, and the bill shall
10 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
11 SENATOR GIANARIS: Can we now take
12 up the reading of the calendar.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
14 Secretary will read.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
16 114, Senate Print 858, by Senator Gounardes, an
17 act to amend the Labor Law.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
19 the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
23 the roll.
24 (The Secretary called the roll.)
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
661
1 Announce the results.
2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
4 bill is passed.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 172, Senate Print 1408, by Senator Gianaris, an
7 act to amend the Criminal Procedure Law and the
8 Civil Practice Law and Rules.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
10 the last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
12 act shall take effect immediately.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
14 the roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll.)
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
17 Jackson to explain his vote.
18 SENATOR JACKSON: Thank you,
19 Mr. President.
20 So, my colleagues, I rise -- it's my
21 understanding this relates to enacting the
22 "New York No Citizen Is Above the Law Act." It
23 provides that the period of immunity from
24 prosecution for a criminal or civil action that a
25 defendant is entitled to by virtue of holding the
662
1 President of the United States office, shall not
2 apply to calculation of the time limitation
3 applicable to the commencement of such actions.
4 So I support this bill. No one --
5 and I repeat again -- no one is above the law.
6 Period. Today, with this bill, we move forward
7 to bear out that truth. Our state, New York
8 State, the Empire State, must set an example. We
9 must undo and overcome the bad precedent
10 established during the past four years.
11 Nefarious acts and abuses of power
12 were normalized by the previous president and his
13 administration. No individual who held or holds
14 the office of President of the United States
15 should be allowed to employ stall tactics to have
16 the statute of limitations expire on a crime he
17 or she allegedly committed, thereby obstructing
18 justice.
19 Lady Justice shall remain impartial.
20 And we must use the law to hold those who abuse
21 power and commit crimes accountable, even if they
22 serve at the highest office in our nation.
23 I want to thank Senator Gianaris and
24 my colleagues for bringing this bill to the
25 floor, and I urge colleagues on both sides of the
663
1 aisle to join me in voting aye.
2 Thank you, Mr. President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
4 Jackson to be recorded in the affirmative.
5 Senator Gianaris to explain his
6 vote.
7 SENATOR GIANARIS: Thank you,
8 Mr. President.
9 This bill is key for one important
10 reason, and that is accountability. Some people
11 will say, Well, certain presidents are out of
12 office now, so why do this? Let it pass.
13 But if there was malfeasance and we
14 don't have accountability and hold someone
15 accountable for what they have done, we are only
16 inviting trouble in the future. History is
17 riddled with such examples.
18 And what we're doing here today is
19 making sure that should something happen, that a
20 loophole does not allow a president to avoid
21 culpability. Statutes of limitations for crimes
22 for the most part run about five years for
23 felonies. A presidential term is four years. So
24 essentially the entire statute could run or just
25 about run while someone enjoys presidential
664
1 immunity, thus avoiding the possibility of
2 prosecution.
3 What this bill will do is stop the
4 clock from running so that authorities will have
5 the opportunity to investigate and bring charges
6 without regard to the four-year period -- or
7 possibly eight years, in the future, if someone
8 is reelected -- where a president enjoys
9 immunity.
10 And so I'm proud that we're doing
11 this today. I'm glad that the past is the past,
12 but we have to make sure it doesn't once again
13 become the future. And the way to do that is
14 making sure we hold people accountable if they're
15 discovered to have done things that were outside
16 the confines of the law.
17 I'll be voting yes. Thank you,
18 Mr. President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
20 Gianaris to be recorded in the affirmative.
21 Announce the results.
22 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
23 Calendar 172, those Senators voting in the
24 negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Boyle,
25 Felder, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Jordan, Lanza,
665
1 Martucci, Mattera, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt,
2 Palumbo, Rath, Ritchie, Serino, Stec, Tedisco and
3 Weik.
4 Ayes, 42. Nays, 21.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
6 bill is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 175, Senate Print 339, by Senator Persaud, an act
9 to amend the Social Services Law.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
11 the last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
13 act shall take effect October 1, 2021.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
15 the roll.
16 (The Secretary called the roll.)
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
18 Announce the results.
19 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
20 Calendar 175, those Senators voting in the
21 negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Boyle,
22 Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Jordan, Oberacker,
23 Ortt, Palumbo, Rath, Stec and Weik.
24 Ayes, 50. Nays, 13.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
666
1 bill is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 188, Senate Print 1015, by Senator Benjamin, an
4 act to amend the Banking Law.
5 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Lay it
7 aside.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 194, Senate Print 1801, by Senator Savino, an act
10 to amend the State Technology Law.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
12 the last section.
13 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
14 act shall take effect immediately.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
16 the roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
19 Announce the results.
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
22 bill is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 195, Senate Print 1273, by Senator Brooks, an act
25 to amend the Mental Hygiene Law.
667
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
2 the last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect on the 120th day after it
5 shall have become a law.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
7 the roll.
8 (The Secretary called the roll.)
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
10 Announce the results.
11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
13 bill is passed.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 200, Senate Print 2997, by Senator Parker, an act
16 to amend the Real Property Law.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
18 the last section.
19 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
20 act shall take effect on the 60th day after it
21 shall have become a law.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
23 the roll.
24 (The Secretary called the roll.)
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
668
1 Announce the results.
2 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
3 Calendar Number 200, those Senators voting in the
4 negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Gallivan,
5 Griffo, Jordan, Lanza, Martucci, Oberacker,
6 O'Mara, Ortt, Rath, Ritchie, Serino, Stec,
7 Tedisco and Weik.
8 Ayes, 47. Nays, 16.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
10 bill is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 222, Senate Print 714, by Senator Breslin, an act
13 to amend the Insurance Law.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
15 the last section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
19 the roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
22 Announce the results.
23 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
25 bill is passed.
669
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 253, Senate Print 1313, by Senator Gaughran, an
3 act to amend the Public Authorities Law.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
5 the last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
7 act shall take effect on the 30th day after it
8 shall have become a law.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
10 the roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
13 Announce the results.
14 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
15 Calendar 253, those Senators voting in the
16 negative are Senators Akshar, Jordan, Helming,
17 Kaplan, Martucci, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Rath
18 and Ritchie.
19 Ayes, 53. Nays, 10.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
21 bill is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 311, Senate Print 13, by Senator Kaplan, an act
24 to amend the Penal Law.
25 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
670
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Lay it
2 aside.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 312, Senate Print 14, by Senator Hoylman, an act
5 to amend the Penal Law.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
7 the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 9. This
9 act shall take effect on the 180th day after it
10 shall have become a law.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
12 the roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
15 Hoylman to explain his vote.
16 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Thank you,
17 Mr. President, for this opportunity to speak on
18 this bill, which is called the José Webster
19 Untraceable Firearms Act.
20 José was tragically shot and killed
21 by two strangers just 10 days after his
22 16th birthday, while walking his girlfriend home,
23 blocks away from his home in the Bronx.
24 His sister Natalie said José had a
25 smile that would light up the room. When José
671
1 was killed, she channeled the immense grief and
2 loss she had into determination to protect other
3 families from that heartbreak. We might not be
4 passing this bill today, Mr. President, without
5 her work. So I want to take this moment to thank
6 Natalie and to honor her family.
7 We pass this legislation today in
8 memory of José and the 36,000 other Americans
9 killed by gun violence each year.
10 I'd also like to note,
11 Mr. President, that we're taking up this
12 important bill on a week, three years ago, that
13 17 students and staff members of Marjory Stoneman
14 Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, were
15 killed in a horrific mass shooting.
16 The José Webster Untraceable
17 Firearms Act is going to create the strongest
18 protections in the nation against what we call
19 "ghost guns." Those are dangerous and
20 untraceable weapons with no serial numbers that
21 circumvent New York's gun safety laws.
22 Its provisions include a prohibition
23 on the possession of ghost guns by anyone other
24 than a licensed gunsmith; a prohibition on the
25 sale of ghost guns entirely; a requirement that
672
1 anyone manufacturing a gun in New York have a
2 gunsmith license; and a requirement for gunsmiths
3 to serialize all firearms, rifles, shotguns,
4 frames and receivers they manufacture, and to
5 register any of them that aren't otherwise
6 covered by law with the Division of State Police.
7 Due partly to the unrest caused by
8 the COVID-19 pandemic, Americans have spent this
9 last year panic-buying guns at truly shocking
10 rates. Nationally, nearly 40 million guns were
11 sold in 2020, roughly 10 million more than the
12 preceding year. Many of these sales were to
13 first-time gun buyers. One trade organization
14 estimated roughly 8.5 million Americans bought a
15 gun for the first time last year.
16 And there's no end in sight. Gun
17 sales nationwide hit a record high in January
18 2021, a 75 percent increase compared to the same
19 month the previous year.
20 Since we can't track them right now,
21 we don't know for sure how many ghost guns are
22 out there. But one thing seems certain -- their
23 sale is exploding. In the months of the COVID-19
24 pandemic at the beginning, at least 16 online
25 retailers put out statements apologizing for
673
1 shipping delays due to exceptionally heavy
2 demand. One said: "We feel like the sales are
3 up like it's Black Friday."
4 All this comes during a period of
5 growing unrest and violence. We saw the tragic
6 events at the U.S. Capitol last month. One of
7 the terrorist groups involved in this dangerous
8 insurrection have embraced ghost guns as the most
9 convenient way to get a weapon.
10 This is an incredibly dangerous
11 moment, one that demands action from New York.
12 But it's not simply the proliferation of guns
13 that is concerning. Federal law contains a
14 dangerous loophole allowing retailers to sell
15 unfinished firearm frames and receivers, which
16 even an amateur can quickly and easily turn into
17 a fully functional weapon with just a few tools
18 and materials.
19 Since these frames and receivers
20 aren't considered to be firearms, their sale
21 doesn't require a background check, and they're
22 not required to have a serial number. This makes
23 them virtually untraceable by law enforcement.
24 For these retailers, this isn't some
25 unintended consequence, it's the whole point.
674
1 It's common to see these kits advertised using
2 phrases like "The only gun you truly own is the
3 one they don't know about." Or emblazoned with
4 statements like "Here's your serial number,"
5 accompanied by a picture of someone flipping the
6 middle finger.
7 A review by Everytown for Gun Safety
8 of 114 prosecutions involving ghost guns found
9 that nearly half of the defendants would not have
10 passed a criminal background check.
11 Law enforcement across the state has
12 recovered these dangerous weapons. In July 2020,
13 the Nassau police found 22 ghost guns and a
14 bomb-making-material kit at a home in Farmingdale
15 on Long Island. The Monroe County DA's office
16 announced in September 2019 that it had recovered
17 10 to 12 fully functional Glock-style ghost guns.
18 And just last week a man in Saratoga County
19 admitted to conspiring to build and sell ghost
20 guns to eager buyers here in the State of
21 New York.
22 It's about time we put a stop to it.
23 Our legislation, together with Senator Kaplan's,
24 is going to crack down on the sale and possession
25 of these dangerous weapons and make sure
675
1 law enforcement has the necessary tools to track
2 the manufacture and sale of guns here in
3 New York.
4 I want to thank our Majority Leader,
5 Andrea Stewart-Cousins, for continuing to make
6 gun safety a priority; as well as my counsel who
7 worked on this legislation, Kendall Jacobsen, who
8 is now with Everytown for Gun Safety; New Yorkers
9 Against Gun Violence; Giffords; Brady United
10 Against Gun Violence; and Moms Demand Action.
11 Enough is enough, Mr. President.
12 The rising specter of ghost guns must stop. With
13 this legislation, we will make sure it does.
14 I vote aye.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
16 Hoylman to be recorded in the affirmative.
17 Announce the results.
18 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
19 Calendar 312, those Senators voting in the
20 negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Brisport,
21 Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Jordan, Lanza,
22 Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Rath, Ritchie, Stec and
23 Tedisco.
24 Ayes, 48. Nays, 15.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
676
1 bill is passed.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 313, Assembly Number 4686, substituted earlier by
4 Assemblymember Burgos, an act to amend the
5 Election Law.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
7 the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
11 the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
14 Announce the results.
15 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
16 Calendar Number 313, those Senators voting in the
17 negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Gallivan,
18 Griffo, Jordan, Martucci, Oberacker, O'Mara,
19 Ortt, Palumbo, Rath, Ritchie, Serino, Stec and
20 Tedisco.
21 Ayes, 48. Nays, 15.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
23 bill is passed.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 314, Assembly Print Number 4447, substituted
677
1 earlier by Assemblymember Gallagher, an act in
2 relation to removing the option to file an
3 opportunity to ballot petition in the June 2021
4 primary election.
5 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Lay it
7 aside.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
9 315, Assembly Print Number 4357, substituted
10 earlier by Assemblymember Sillitti, an act in
11 relation to the election of county committee
12 members.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
14 the last section.
15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
16 act shall take effect immediately.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
18 the roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
21 Announce the results.
22 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
23 Calendar Number 315, voting in the negative:
24 Senators Lanza and O'Mara.
25 Ayes, 61. Nays, 2.
678
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
2 bill is passed.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 316, Senate Print 4430, by Senator Ryan, an act
5 to amend the Education Law.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Read
7 the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 6. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
11 the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
14 Announce the results.
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
17 bill is passed.
18 Senator Gianaris.
19 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
20 let us pause to recognize that is Senator Ryan's
21 first bill passing the Senate.
22 (Standing ovation.)
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
24 Gianaris, that completes the reading of today's
25 calendar.
679
1 SENATOR GIANARIS: Can we move to
2 the reading of the controversial calendar,
3 please.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
5 Secretary will ring the bell.
6 The Secretary will read.
7 SENATOR GIANARIS: Will you go to
8 Calendar Number 314, please.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
10 Secretary will read.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 314, Assembly Number 4447, by Assemblymember
13 Gallagher, an act in relation to removing the
14 option to file an opportunity to ballot petition
15 in the June 2021 primary election.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
17 Lanza, why do you rise?
18 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, I
19 believe there's an amendment at the desk. I
20 waive the reading of that amendment and ask that
21 you recognize Senator Oberacker to be heard.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Thank
23 you, Senator Lanza.
24 Upon review of the amendment, in
25 accordance with Rule 6, Section 4B, I rule it
680
1 nongermane and out of order at this time.
2 SENATOR LANZA: Accordingly,
3 Mr. President, I appeal the ruling of the chair
4 and ask that Senator Oberacker be recognized.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
6 appeal has been made and recognized, and
7 Senator Oberacker may be heard.
8 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you,
9 Mr. President. Mr. President, I rise to appeal
10 the ruling of the chair.
11 The proposed amendment is germane to
12 the bill at hand because the Governor over the
13 summer issued an executive order that eliminated
14 the opportunity to ballot process for the June
15 2020 primary elections, and this bill would
16 eliminate the opportunity to ballot process for
17 June 2021 primary elections.
18 Mr. President, I would argue there
19 is nothing more germane that this house could act
20 upon than restoring our power as a coequal branch
21 of government.
22 At the onset of the pandemic, it was
23 necessary for the Legislature to grant emergency
24 powers to the Governor to help the state react
25 quickly to protect public health and safety. One
681
1 of the Governor's 2020 executive actions included
2 exactly what we are being asked to vote on today,
3 removing the option to file an opportunity to
4 ballot petition in the June 2021 primary
5 election.
6 I ask my colleagues across the
7 aisle, what's the rush? This bill is challenging
8 our election process that we've had historically
9 for years. We should be addressing the bills
10 that involve the Department of Health and our
11 nursing homes. There are thousands of families
12 who have lost loved ones. These families deserve
13 justice and closure.
14 You know, it was mentioned
15 yesterday, bills by the Democratic Conference
16 have been introduced and went through the Health
17 Committee, which I am a member of, in relation to
18 nursing homes. Why aren't we discussing those
19 today?
20 The time has come for the
21 Legislature to get priorities reset. New Yorkers
22 are depending upon us as elected officials to get
23 them answers on the losses of their loved ones in
24 nursing homes, getting shots in the arms of the
25 most vulnerable, and getting our economy back on
682
1 track.
2 We were elected to be a voice for
3 our constituents and be part of a system of
4 checks and balances the way our government was
5 designed to work. We cannot do that until we
6 work together as a Legislature to reassert our
7 constitutional authority to represent New York
8 State as a coequal branch.
9 The time has passed to do what is
10 right and do our job. For these reasons -- for
11 these reasons, Mr. President, I strongly urge you
12 to reconsider your ruling. Thank you.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Thank
14 you, Senator Oberacker.
15 I want to remind the house that the
16 vote is on the procedures of the house and the
17 ruling of the chair.
18 Those in favor of overruling the
19 chair signify by saying aye.
20 SENATOR LANZA: Request a show of
21 hands, please.
22 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
23 we've agreed to waive the showing of hands and
24 record each member of the Minority in the
25 affirmative.
683
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Without
2 objection, so ordered.
3 Announce the results.
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 20.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
6 ruling of the chair stands, and the bill-in-chief
7 is before the house.
8 Are there any other Senators wishing
9 to be heard?
10 Senator Boyle.
11 SENATOR BOYLE: Mr. President,
12 would the sponsor or a Senator yield for some
13 questions?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Will
15 the Senator yield?
16 SENATOR GIANARIS: I yield.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
18 Senator yields.
19 SENATOR BOYLE: Mr. Leader, just so
20 I understand this bill, can you explain what an
21 opportunity ballot is?
22 SENATOR GIANARIS: Sure. An
23 opportunity ballot is the mechanism in law that
24 normally would allow someone who is not a member
25 of a political party to petition to allow their
684
1 name to be written in in a primary for that
2 party's election.
3 SENATOR BOYLE: Okay, so how would
4 this proposed law --
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
6 Boyle, are you asking --
7 SENATOR BOYLE: Oh, I'm sorry,
8 Mr. President. Would the sponsor yield? Does
9 the Senator yield?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
11 the Senator yield?
12 SENATOR GIANARIS: Yes.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
14 Senator yields.
15 SENATOR BOYLE: Thank you,
16 Mr. President.
17 So in practice, how would this work?
18 A given candidate, for example, how would that --
19 or it would stop them from doing something?
20 SENATOR GIANARIS: When there's an
21 uncontested contest for a party's nomination --
22 so either there would be no candidates or only
23 one candidate -- the law allows for someone else,
24 who is not a member of that party, who would --
25 if someone was a member of the party, they would
685
1 petition through the normal process. But if not,
2 this process exists to give voters the
3 opportunity to write in that name in addition to
4 either no name or the one name that might be
5 seeking the nomination.
6 SENATOR BOYLE: Will the Senator
7 continue to yield?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
9 the Senator yield?
10 SENATOR GIANARIS: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
12 Senator yields.
13 SENATOR BOYLE: Senator, just a
14 hypothetical. Say I'm a young Democratic
15 Socialist living in New York City and there is no
16 Democratic Socialist Party, so I register with
17 the Working Families Party. I have a long-time
18 Democratic incumbent City Councilperson, and I
19 say I can do a better job than they can, I want
20 to run for that seat.
21 I realize that I'm not going to be
22 able to win on the Working Families Party alone,
23 so I want to run a OTB or a primary against them
24 on the Democratic line.
25 Would I be able to do that, or could
686
1 the Democratic chairperson there say, No, we're
2 not going to allow you to do that?
3 SENATOR GIANARIS: If there is
4 no -- if there are not multiple candidates
5 already seeking the Democratic nomination, then
6 yes, the OTB process would allow the opportunity
7 for that person to have their name written in on
8 the ballot.
9 SENATOR BOYLE: But they couldn't
10 do it if this became law.
11 SENATOR GIANARIS: For this year.
12 I mean, this is a pandemic-related issue that is
13 mimicking what we did last year. Last year the
14 opportunity to ballot process was canceled so as
15 to avoid the opportunity for COVID to spread
16 while people are petitioning. And so we're
17 trying to limit public exposure. This is only
18 for this year's election cycle.
19 SENATOR BOYLE: Will the Senator
20 continue to yield?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
22 the Senator yield?
23 SENATOR GIANARIS: Yes.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
25 Senator yields.
687
1 SENATOR BOYLE: We've passed a
2 number of bills because of the pandemic. As you
3 say, we're all concerned about people being out
4 there getting too many signatures.
5 So for the major parties, we've
6 simply lowered the number of signatures required
7 to get on the ballot. Right? Why are we doing
8 away with OTB? Why don't -- to protect people,
9 why don't we just lower the number of signatures
10 needed to OTB to make it easier, rather than make
11 it impossible?
12 SENATOR GIANARIS: Like I said,
13 this bill mimics what was done last year in the
14 2020 cycle. It seems that people were satisfied
15 with what we did there. There needs to be some
16 standards for the major parties, or else you
17 won't have major party nominees.
18 The OTB process is a very rarely
19 used process. Realistically, it is hardly ever
20 used -- or not to my knowledge ever been used --
21 against the major parties, so it really comes
22 down to just the two remaining minor parties.
23 And so the conclusion was it worked
24 last year, let's just do the same thing this year
25 until we're through with COVID-19.
688
1 SENATOR BOYLE: Would the Senator
2 yield for one more question?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
4 the Senator yield?
5 SENATOR GIANARIS: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
7 Senator yields.
8 SENATOR BOYLE: Senator, if I'm not
9 registered with a party, I'm unaffiliated, and I
10 want to run for City Council this year, would
11 this bill presumably stop me from doing that if I
12 want to run on the Republican line or the
13 Democratic line and the chairman does not want to
14 allow me to do that?
15 SENATOR GIANARIS: Well, it won't
16 allow you to run for the nomination of a major
17 party without the support of the chairman of the
18 party. But there is nothing prohibiting anyone
19 from submitting independent nominating petitions
20 for November, as has always been the case.
21 And in that circumstance I think we
22 may have already passed the bill that lowers the
23 number of signatures for those petitions.
24 SENATOR BOYLE: One more question,
25 Mr. President.
689
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
2 the Senator yield?
3 SENATOR GIANARIS: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
5 Senator yields.
6 SENATOR BOYLE: So other than
7 Staten Island, Senator, you presumably have to be
8 a Democrat running in New York City to get
9 elected to the City Council, would you think?
10 SENATOR GIANARIS: You might want
11 to ask Senator Lanza whether Staten Island has
12 anything to do with this.
13 (Laughter.)
14 SENATOR GIANARIS: Senator Lanza
15 says it's true.
16 No. No, there have been Republican
17 elected officials elected in various parts of the
18 city over time. And if the Republican Party
19 didn't have such extreme views out of touch with
20 the people of New York, maybe they'd have more.
21 SENATOR BOYLE: Mr. President, on
22 the bill.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
24 Boyle on the bill.
25 SENATOR BOYLE: My colleagues, I
690
1 hear both in New York State and across the nation
2 Democrats continually say the Republicans want to
3 disenfranchise people, we're trying to stop
4 people from being able to vote, be able to run
5 for office. To them I say, look at this bill. A
6 clearly unconstitutional bill that will stop
7 people, millions of New Yorkers, who are not
8 registered with one or two of the major parties,
9 from running for office this year.
10 I'm all in favor of protecting
11 people from the pandemic, which is why I think
12 they should actually make it easier -- lower the
13 number of signatures required for an OTB. This
14 stops millions of New Yorkers from exercising
15 their constitutional right to run for office.
16 It's an outrageous thing, and we
17 need to vote it down. I vote in the negative,
18 and urge all my colleagues to vote no as well.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Are
20 there any other Senators wishing to be heard?
21 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
22 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
23 Read the last section.
24 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
25 act shall take effect immediately.
691
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
2 the roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:
5 Announce the results.
6 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
7 Calendar Number 314, those Senators voting in the
8 negative are Senators Boyle, Brooks, Gallivan,
9 Helming, Lanza, O'Mara, Palumbo, Serino and Ryan.
10 Ayes, 54. Nays, 9.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
12 bill is passed.
13 Senator Gianaris.
14 SENATOR GIANARIS: Can we now move
15 to Calendar 311, please, Mr. President.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
17 Secretary will read.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 311, Senate Print 13, by Senator Kaplan, an act
20 to amend the Penal Law.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
22 Palumbo.
23 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
24 Mr. President. Will the sponsor yield for a
25 question, please.
692
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
2 the sponsor yield?
3 SENATOR KAPLAN: Yes,
4 Mr. President.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you. And
8 thank you, Senator Kaplan.
9 Generally speaking, of course, this
10 piece of legislation would create some new crimes
11 with respect to possession of an unfinished frame
12 or receiver, and it does a few different things.
13 And I would just like to address, if I can, a few
14 of them.
15 The first being that if you could
16 explain to me the definition of unfinished frame
17 or receiver. I see it's any material that does
18 not constitute the frame or receiver of a
19 firearm, rifle or shotgun, but has been shaped or
20 formed in a way for the purposes of becoming one
21 of those items, or may be readily made by
22 milling, drilling, or other means.
23 Is that accurate?
24 SENATOR KAPLAN: That is accurate,
25 Mr. President.
693
1 SENATOR PALUMBO: And would you
2 yield for another question, please.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
4 the sponsor yield?
5 SENATOR KAPLAN: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR PALUMBO: So, Senator,
9 could you tell me the reason for this legislation
10 and why we feel it's necessary at this time?
11 SENATOR KAPLAN: This has been an
12 issue that has been brought up by a lot of
13 law enforcements throughout the state. And this
14 is basically a very dangerous loophole that we
15 are trying to correct and fix today.
16 SENATOR PALUMBO: Would the sponsor
17 yield for another question?
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
19 the sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR KAPLAN: Yes,
21 Mr. President.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR PALUMBO: So if I could
25 direct your attention to line 10 -- really, 9 and
694
1 10. And it says that "and which may be readily
2 made into a functional firearm or receiver
3 through milling, drilling or other means."
4 Can you tell me what you mean by "or
5 other means" in this section at line 10?
6 SENATOR KAPLAN: I can simply tell
7 you this legislation is dealing with any material
8 that is -- piece of material that has had its
9 size or external shape -- if it has been altered
10 for transportation or storage, it doesn't apply.
11 But any piece that could come to you and you can
12 simply drill a few holes and assemble it, which
13 would make a working gun, is what we're trying to
14 prevent.
15 And simply, these receivers,
16 unfinished receivers, don't have a serial number
17 on them, so they cannot be traced by law
18 enforcement.
19 That's what we're trying to prevent,
20 to make sure that these unfinished receivers and
21 frames have a serial number and the purchaser
22 goes through a background check.
23 SENATOR PALUMBO: Will the sponsor
24 yield for another question, please.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Does
695
1 the sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR KAPLAN: Yes,
3 Mr. President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR PALUMBO: And Senator --
7 and I certainly understand that, and that's
8 already addressed. In fact, we have other bills
9 on the agenda today that will address something
10 that is otherwise concealed, doesn't obtain a
11 serial number -- that's already current law.
12 My issue is, to what extent are we
13 saying it can be modified? So if I order
14 something from Amazon for my barbecue that's a
15 hunk of metal and I'm able to fabricate that into
16 something that can -- and the language is
17 "readily discharge a shot capable of causing
18 serious physical injury or death," that would
19 then be a piece of a firearm.
20 But this is so vague with respect to
21 "or other means" or "by milling or drilling." So
22 my question to you is, to what extent does it
23 need to be at least representative of a piece of
24 a firearm, of a frame or receiver -- because a
25 frame or a receiver can't hurt anybody. All
696
1 together, they can.
2 So my question is, how expansive is
3 this? And what is your intent regarding that
4 particular language, please?
5 SENATOR KAPLAN: So the bill is
6 very clear. On the third line it says it has to
7 be shaped or formed in any way for the purpose of
8 becoming the frame or receiver of a firearm,
9 rifle or shotgun, and which may be readily made
10 into a functional firearm or receiver through
11 milling, drilling or other means.
12 SENATOR PALUMBO: Will the sponsor
13 yield for another question, please.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Will
15 the sponsor yield?
16 SENATOR KAPLAN: Yes,
17 Mr. President.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
21 Mr. President. And thank you, Senator Kaplan.
22 So I know we may agree to disagree
23 on that, and I'll comment on that a little more
24 in a little bit.
25 But in the lower part, the other
697
1 section, you add now two new crimes of criminal
2 possession of a weapon, that if someone now
3 possesses this unfinished frame or receiver -- I
4 guess when you add to Section 265.02, which is
5 criminal possession of a weapon third degree, if
6 I recall correctly, and that's a D felony -- that
7 we're adding these new sections that if someone
8 now possesses not a firearm, but an unfinished
9 receiver, this hunk of metal, they would
10 therefore be guilty of criminal possession of a
11 weapon. Is that accurate?
12 SENATOR KAPLAN: This bill gives
13 six months to people to go ahead and get their
14 unfinished frame or receiver, have it assembled,
15 and make it finished and have a serial number
16 attached to it.
17 SENATOR PALUMBO: Understood.
18 Thank you, Senator Kaplan. On the bill, please,
19 Mr. President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
21 Palumbo on the bill.
22 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
23 Mr. President.
24 And now -- there are so many
25 consequences to a bill like this, my friends.
698
1 Let's think about this. I was a prosecutor for
2 many years, handled hundreds of gun cases. When
3 someone presents -- or say someone commits a
4 robbery with something that is not a firearm, it
5 mitigates robbery.
6 If they display -- if you do this
7 {aiming gesture} in your pocket, that displays
8 what appears to be a firearm, that's robbery in
9 the first degree.
10 If you are arrested and they recover
11 the piece of metal -- really, a toy -- say it's a
12 hammerless gun, it now mitigates to robbery in
13 the second degree.
14 We have provisions in our law as to
15 what a firearm is. If I have a hammerless pistol
16 and I have a previous felony conviction and I'm
17 arrested with that, that's essentially a toy. Or
18 I have something that is not -- and I've said
19 this -- it's been charged to trial juries, grand
20 jury -- readily capable of producing a shot that
21 can cause serious physical injury or death, it's
22 not a gun.
23 This is now -- this hunk of metal
24 that may, by drilling, milling or other means --
25 which I would submit to you, folks, is ultimately
699
1 fabricating it as a blacksmith into something
2 that can maybe, possibly in the future produce a
3 shot -- it's a piece of metal now. It's a
4 barbecue tool now, but ultimately it could
5 possibly, maybe, become a piece of a firearm --
6 I'm now guilty of a crime.
7 And how is this going to escalate --
8 when we talk in this body all the time about
9 criminal justice reform and how that there are
10 pretextual stops of defendants -- now what? They
11 get arrested for having a hunk of metal in their
12 pocket, they're now guilty of a felony if they
13 have a criminal conviction, under the second
14 section here.
15 So this is something that is so
16 expansive and so far over the line that the
17 unintended consequences will be aggravation of
18 criminal conduct in a way that I don't believe
19 the sponsor intends.
20 And quite frankly, are we going to
21 now include this in the robbery statute? If I'm
22 arrested with a knife in my pocket, obviously
23 that's a weapon. If I'm arrested now, after
24 committing other crimes, and I have an unfinished
25 receiver in my pocket -- not a defaced firearm
700
1 without a serial number; that's a separate crime,
2 and we already have provisions for that. Not a
3 ghost gun, which we're going to deal with today,
4 which is a concealed firearm or that's
5 untraceable.
6 This is a piece of metal, this is a
7 piece of junk that we're now going to include in
8 the criminal justice system to the extent that
9 mere possession of it, with even just a prior
10 misdemeanor conviction, is a violent felony.
11 So, my friends, this is incredibly
12 vague, this is a terrible infringement not only
13 on our rights -- I believe it's generally
14 unconstitutional -- but I think the unintended
15 consequences are going to go the other way as
16 well.
17 I urge a no vote. Thank you.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Are
19 there any other Senators wishing to be heard?
20 Senator Lanza.
21 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President, to
22 explain my vote.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: We'll
24 come to that.
25 SENATOR LANZA: Oh, I'm sorry.
701
1 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Seeing
2 and hearing none, debate is closed.
3 The Secretary will ring the bell.
4 Read the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
6 act shall take effect on the 120th day after it
7 shall have become a law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Call
9 the roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN: Senator
12 Gaughran to explain his vote.
13 SENATOR GAUGHRAN: Thank you very
14 much, Mr. President.
15 Once again in this chamber we're
16 making history by passing the Scott J. Beigel
17 Unfinished Receiver Act.
18 Very simply, the consequence of this
19 bill is it will save lives in this state. We
20 don't know how many lives, but it probably will
21 save a lot of lives. It will make our state and
22 our neighbors safer.
23 So I want to thank Senator Kaplan
24 for her diligence, perseverance in making sure
25 that we pass this bill again, and hopefully it
702
1 becomes law.
2 I want to talk about Scott Beigel,
3 who was murdered in the 2018 Parkland massacre,
4 whom this bill is named after in his memory.
5 I've gotten to know his parents quite well, Linda
6 Beigel Schulman and Michael Schulman, who have
7 now committed their lives to making sure that we
8 are protecting citizens of this country from
9 unnecessary gun violence.
10 And, you know, the last few weeks
11 we've heard a lot about right wing conspiracy
12 theories, including that Scott's murder was not
13 real. Well, I want to tell you his murder was
14 real. His life was certainly real. He stood in
15 the doorway and pushed all these young students
16 into his classroom, locked it, and then took the
17 bullet and died. That was real.
18 And so it is so important today that
19 we move forward in this state in enacting this
20 legislation so that not only can we honor Scott,
21 but we can honor him by making sure that we
22 continue to try to do everything we can to save
23 the lives of New Yorkers and Americans.
24 So, Mr. President, I vote in the
25 affirmative -- or Madam President, I vote in the
703
1 affirmative. We had a little switch there.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
3 Gaughran to be recorded in the affirmative.
4 Senator Lanza to explain his vote.
5 SENATOR LANZA: Madam President,
6 it's so great to see you.
7 You know, I understand if you are on
8 the side of eliminating people's freedom to
9 protect themselves and you feel so strongly about
10 that that you believe the Second Amendment no
11 longer has a place in American culture and
12 society.
13 But this legislation goes so far
14 afield that it's barely even related, in my mind,
15 to that cause. I mean, the title itself,
16 "unfinished receiver." It does not even ban
17 guns, it bans, as Senator Palumbo cited, just
18 about anything.
19 I mean, what next? The screw you
20 need to assemble a shotgun is going to be
21 something that you're not allowed to possess in
22 the State of New York? I can't even imagine how
23 this legislation would pass constitutional
24 muster. It is so void for vagueness that, as
25 Senator Palumbo said, I can imagine a young man
704
1 or a young woman walking the streets of New York
2 City -- in the Bronx, in Manhattan,
3 Staten Island, Brooklyn, Queens -- and being
4 pulled over or stopped because they're carrying a
5 pipe that's used in a plumbing fixture, where a
6 police officer would, if this becomes law, could
7 reasonably have probable cause to place that
8 individual under arrest. I mean, that's how
9 vague this is.
10 And that's what will happen when we
11 start in such a frenzy, in terms of our radical
12 beliefs, start to just ban anything and infringe
13 upon liberty to such a degree that things that
14 none of us in this chamber, including the
15 sponsor, would want to see happen will begin to
16 happen. And that's what this legislation does.
17 This criminalizes the possession of
18 ordinary objects that you see every day. And I
19 won't list them, but even an empty flashlight
20 tube could be the predicate for an arrest in the
21 State of New York if this becomes law. And there
22 will be someone in law enforcement that will do
23 that, because this piece of legislation gives
24 them the opportunity.
25 So because it is so vague, because
705
1 of the unintended consequences -- and I believe
2 they are unintended -- that I surely believe will
3 occur, Madam President, I cast my vote in the
4 negative.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
6 Lanza to be recorded in the negative.
7 Senator Kaplan to explain her vote.
8 SENATOR KAPLAN: Thank you,
9 Madam President.
10 I proudly rise today as the sponsor
11 of this bill. And I would like to make one
12 clarification. This bill simply deals with a
13 piece of material that can readily be made into a
14 functional frame or receiver, and into a
15 functional gun. It does not deal with a piece of
16 material or a tube or a metal. It is
17 specifically one piece that is made and meant to
18 be made into a functional gun, despite what my
19 colleagues on the other side say.
20 The Scott J. Beigel Unfinished
21 Receiver Act is a bill that was brought by my
22 residents. And it is up to me to make sure that
23 I take action that our communities are safe from
24 gun violence. And today, as we approach a somber
25 date on the calendar marking three years since
706
1 the tragedy in Parkland, Florida, we are taking
2 action to close a dangerous loophole that lets
3 far too many untraceable weapons fall into the
4 hands of people who would otherwise be unable to
5 obtain a gun legally.
6 Here in New York, we have passed
7 some of the strongest safety laws in the nation,
8 and we did it with the support of our residents,
9 who are sick and tired of the epidemic of gun
10 violence they are seeing across this nation. But
11 sometimes even the strongest laws have their
12 weaknesses, and today we're going to fix that.
13 Under federal law, it is perfectly
14 legal to sell a mostly completed receiver that
15 just about anyone can turn into a gun like an
16 AR-15 in a few simple steps. The process can
17 take as little as an hour, and there are YouTube
18 videos that walk you through the process. And by
19 the time the video is over, you've got yourself a
20 brand-new untraceable AR-15 with no records, no
21 serial number, and you never had to go through a
22 background check to get it.
23 If you think this sounds like an
24 egregious end run around our well-intentioned gun
25 safety laws, you are not alone. When asked his
707
1 feelings on the topic of 80 percent finished
2 receivers, Tom King, the president of the
3 New York State Rifle and Pistol Association --
4 also a board member of the National Rifle
5 Association -- said the following: "These
6 80 percent guns are providing a way for
7 prohibited people to buy a firearm," referring to
8 people who don't have a gun permit or are
9 otherwise prohibited from possessing a gun.
10 He went on to explain that
11 self-assembled guns provide a way for competition
12 shooters to make a custom-fitted firearm, but
13 that such weapons should have serial numbers and
14 be registered because, in his words, it appears
15 what was meant to be something for competitive
16 shooters and serious shooters to build their own
17 unique firearms may be turning into a criminal
18 enterprise.
19 So to recap, we have a problem that
20 is universally recognized by the head of New York
21 State's Rifle and Pistol Association, who again,
22 as I mentioned, is a board member of NRA; every
23 major law enforcement organization around the
24 state; every major gun safety organization around
25 the state and the nation; our State Attorney
708
1 General; and countless residents across my
2 district and the entire state.
3 And today, we have the opportunity
4 with this simple bill to fix this problem and
5 make our communities safer. I believe that's the
6 definition of common sense.
7 I'm especially proud to carry this
8 bill, because this bill also pays tribute to a
9 true hero. Scott J. Beigel senselessly lost his
10 life to gun violence at Marjory Stoneman Douglas
11 High School in Parkland, Florida, on February 14,
12 2018. Scott was a hero, an MSD teacher who gave
13 his life to heroically protect his students.
14 I dedicated this legislation to
15 Scott's honor and his memory. And because I know
16 this bill will save lives, just like Scott did, I
17 dedicated this legislation to Scott as a reminder
18 to all of us just what's at stake here. We know
19 that when we don't take action to strengthen our
20 gun safety laws, our communities are less safe.
21 Our schools are less safe. Our families are less
22 safe. And the unfortunate reality is that there
23 are too many parents in this country who will lay
24 their head down on a tear-stained pillow each
25 night wishing someone had done more, wishing that
709
1 someone had taken action.
2 There are so many people who are
3 taking action here today to ensure our
4 communities are safer, by passing commonsense
5 laws like the Scott J. Beigel Unfinished Receiver
6 Act and the José Webster Untraceable Firearms.
7 First and foremost, thank you to our
8 leader, Andrea Stewart-Cousins, for always
9 ensuring that the safety of our communities is
10 paramount and that we're passing good laws that
11 are responsive for the needs of our residents.
12 Thank you to Senator Brad Hoylman
13 for his tireless work on gun violence prevention
14 legislation, going back for years, and for his
15 partnership on this legislation package today.
16 And most importantly, thank you to
17 Linda Beigel Schulman and Michael Schulman,
18 Scott's parents, who propelled this issue forward
19 with raw honesty and humanity and their unending
20 love for their son. This is a victory for every
21 resident of the State of New York, and it could
22 not have happened without your efforts, Linda and
23 Michael. Thank you.
24 And with that, Madam President, I
25 proudly vote aye.
710
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:
2 Senator Kaplan to be recorded in the affirmative.
3 Announce the results.
4 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
5 Calendar 311, those Senators voting in the
6 negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Boyle,
7 Brisport, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Jordan,
8 Lanza, Martucci, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt,
9 Palumbo, Rath, Ritchie, Serino, Stec, Tedisco and
10 Weik.
11 Ayes, 43. Nays, 20.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
13 is passed.
14 SENATOR GIANARIS: Madam President,
15 can we now take up Calendar Number 188, please.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
17 Secretary will read.
18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
19 188, Senate Print 1015, by Senator Benjamin, an
20 act to amend the Banking Law.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
22 Palumbo.
23 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
24 Madam President. Would the sponsor yield for a
25 few questions, please?
711
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Will the
2 sponsor yield?
3 SENATOR BENJAMIN: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
5 sponsor will yield.
6 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
7 Senator Benjamin. Good to see you down here with
8 us plain old Senators once, you know what I mean?
9 And I know you have a seat, because
10 it's right here. But I'm glad that we can face
11 each other, dealing with the issues that we're
12 dealing with. You're waiting for your microphone
13 to turn on.
14 So, Senator, I'll -- and I'll cut to
15 the chase on my questions. I've had some people
16 express concerns to me regarding this bill,
17 because private prisons are already banned in
18 New York, and now this is banning a bank, a local
19 bank's ability to engage in commerce and
20 contracts with and lend money to contractors who
21 are otherwise working with private prisons.
22 So would you mind doing me a favor
23 and please explaining the necessity of this bill,
24 and if you could possibly alleviate those
25 concerns, that would be great.
712
1 SENATOR BENJAMIN: Sure. Thank
2 you.
3 So, Senator Palumbo, one of the
4 things -- when I joined the Senate in 2017, I was
5 very concerned about the fact that in the State
6 of New York, the New York State Comptroller had a
7 small allocation that was being invested in
8 private prisons. And I introduced a bill at that
9 time, worked with the Comptroller, and he
10 divested from private prisons any allocation in
11 the pension funds.
12 Which then led to the question and
13 concern around other forms of financing. As you
14 know, you can lend to private prisons, there's
15 credit facilities, a range of other financing
16 instruments. And to me, if New York State has
17 made a decision that we do not want to be in the
18 private prison business, we don't want to own or
19 operate private prisons, we should not have
20 state-chartered banks that have the ability to
21 lend to private prisons.
22 And so to be very clear, because
23 I've heard this comment before that says, well,
24 this becomes a slippery slope, you start with
25 private prisons, it becomes something else and
713
1 then something else. My argument is that if
2 New York State has outlawed something, then we
3 should not allow New York State-based entities to
4 participate with that space at all.
5 And so one of the things that I
6 believe this bill does is it states affirmatively
7 that not only do we not want to invest in private
8 prisons, we also do not want any sort of
9 financing -- preferred equity, loans, any other
10 sort of financing in private prisons. And I
11 don't think that that is at odds with sort of
12 building the businesses of banks. We want banks
13 to do well. We just don't want them to engage in
14 businesses that the state finds illegal.
15 SENATOR PALUMBO: Will the sponsor
16 yield for another question, please.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Will the
18 sponsor yield?
19 SENATOR BENJAMIN: Sure.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR PALUMBO: Well, thank you,
23 Senator, and I appreciate that explanation. But
24 banks are in the business of money, they're not
25 in the business of prisons. So it's a
714
1 politically unfavorable thing -- and we
2 understand that, for reasons that we don't even
3 need to get into, that private prisons be
4 eliminated. And I get that. But they're dealing
5 now with just the act of lending and making
6 money, which is business.
7 We already have tremendous
8 restrictions on our banks in New York State, and
9 now we're adding one that almost seems to be more
10 of a symbol than anything.
11 So can you please alleviate some
12 concerns or address how this doesn't now affect
13 commerce outside of New York State in case a
14 local bank wants to deal with another state that
15 somehow is maybe inadvertently -- not even
16 inadvertently, but is somehow collaterally
17 dealing with a private prison?
18 And that is a slippery slope, is
19 another concern, that we would ultimately now
20 have these more politically unfavorable areas of
21 commerce that we will further restrict these
22 banks and restrict them into oblivion where they
23 can't even compete now.
24 SENATOR BENJAMIN: You know, it's a
25 very simple bill, so I think -- I want to make
715
1 sure that we're clear on what we're referring to.
2 So what this bill does, it would
3 allow no -- it will prohibit any state-chartered
4 banking institution from providing financing or
5 investing in the stocks, securities or other
6 obligations of an entity that owns or operates a
7 private correctional facility.
8 So when you -- so that's really --
9 it's very specific. It doesn't -- it isn't broad
10 and have broader tentacles, which I think I was
11 hearing you mention. It basically says if you
12 are an entity that owns or operates a private
13 correctional facility, that state-chartered bank
14 cannot lend or invest in them.
15 So I think that's pretty tight. And
16 I think part of what facilitates my argument is
17 the fact that we've already said that we don't
18 want to be, as New York State, in the business of
19 owning or operating private correctional
20 facilities. So it doesn't create a lot of room,
21 in my view, for other -- for expansion into other
22 topics.
23 And I would also submit -- you know,
24 I've had this bill for three years now, and we
25 have not received any state-chartered bank's
716
1 letter of opposition, no -- not a memo. So we
2 believe that I think state-chartered banks in
3 New York don't find this to be particularly
4 onerous on them. We'd obviously and happily
5 communicate with them if they feel that way.
6 But I do believe that this bill
7 really helps us to be very clear that this is not
8 an industry we want in New York State. We don't
9 want our financing, within any capacity, to help
10 these businesses.
11 And I won't -- you know, last year
12 and the year before I'd start waxing poetic
13 around my issues with private prisons. I will
14 avoid that this year. Particularly as it's
15 get-away day, I won't get into all that with you
16 today. So I'm going to stay focused on what you
17 want to talk about.
18 But I will say to you that the
19 private prison industry profits off of
20 incarceration. I'll leave it at that. And to
21 me, that's really a harmful business to be in.
22 And I don't believe New York State should in any
23 way -- we are the financial capital of the world,
24 and I don't believe that any bank in New York
25 State should do that.
717
1 And by the way, I would submit to
2 you, Bank of America and a number of major banks
3 have on their own said, We will choose not to
4 lend to private prisons. So I do think -- you
5 know, Bank of America does pretty well, a number
6 of these big banks do very well. If they've made
7 a decision on their own to not lend to private
8 prisons, there must be something in their
9 business model that says to them this is a risky
10 business, this is something that's not in our
11 best interests, and so we're choosing to stay
12 away from it.
13 I just want to make sure that we are
14 very clear on the record, New York State does not
15 want to be in this business. We don't want to
16 lend to this business. We think this business
17 should go away. At least I believe that way, I
18 believe that. And I think this bill does not
19 hurt banks. And so that's -- that's why I feel
20 comfortable with it.
21 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you very
22 much, Senator Benjamin. I appreciate your
23 comments.
24 Madam President, on the bill,
25 please.
718
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
2 Palumbo on the bill.
3 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you, ma'am.
4 And, look, maybe because I'm a less
5 government is more kind of guy, my concern is
6 that we already have tremendous restrictions on
7 banks in New York State. And to further restrict
8 them from investing -- and as I mentioned during
9 the debate, that they're in the business of
10 money. They're not in the business of prisons.
11 And it's not as if -- they're
12 probably going to soon be in the business of
13 drugs when we legalize marijuana, which I think
14 is coming our way. Are we going to restrict that
15 further because that could ultimately lead to
16 some -- to addiction problems, and with all the
17 stresses of the pandemic?
18 So I won't get too far afield, I'll
19 stay on this bill, of course. But the bottom
20 line is I think this is a terrible idea to
21 restrict it to an unfavorable area of commerce,
22 because we did what we can do in the State
23 Legislature. We prohibited them in New York
24 State. That's great. But now we're prohibiting
25 banks from investing in otherwise maybe a huge
719
1 conglomerate. Because other states are not
2 New York.
3 And quite frankly, I'm not thrilled
4 with government-run agencies anyway -- i.e.,
5 NYCHA. We can have that discussion for how
6 many -- how many years. I mean, ask the
7 Native American population how they feel about
8 government-run programs. So there are certain
9 situations where private business can do better
10 than government. Story for another day.
11 But my point is this, that this is
12 restricting commerce to the extent that I think
13 it's interfering with outside contracts. This
14 could potentially be a tortious interference with
15 independent businesses' ability to lend.
16 So I believe that those are issues.
17 And quite frankly, I urge the industry -- that
18 had expressed concerns to me -- to possibly
19 express those to Senator Benjamin. He certainly
20 seems open to adjusting the bill in order to
21 alleviate some of those concerns.
22 So in its current form,
23 Madam President, I unfortunately am going to be
24 voting no. Thank you very much.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Are
720
1 there any Senators wishing to be heard?
2 Seeing and hearing none, the debate
3 is closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
4 Read the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
8 roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll.)
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
11 Borrello to explain his vote.
12 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you,
13 Madam President.
14 You know, as the ranking member of
15 the Banks Committee -- which I am proud to be on,
16 but it also concerns me because we only can
17 affect change on state-chartered banks. And in
18 New York State, the financial capital of the
19 world, we have seen a tremendous decline in the
20 number of state-chartered banks. This is largely
21 due to the fact that it's become more and more
22 difficult to do business as a state-chartered
23 bank.
24 And they are -- the banks are
25 community banks. These are the banks that lend
721
1 to people that otherwise might not get loans.
2 These are the banks that are part of our
3 community, that participate in philanthropy. We
4 need state-chartered banks.
5 And now here we are. And I respect
6 and appreciate Senator Benjamin's position on
7 this. And I think he's being a little modest,
8 because the Bank of America -- which is a
9 federally chartered bank which would not be
10 impacted by this law -- changed its position
11 largely due to your advocacy, to the Senator's
12 advocacy.
13 That's the path, in my opinion. The
14 path is advocacy to make those changes so that
15 they see that there's -- this is maybe not
16 something that -- a business that we want to be
17 in.
18 When we tell them to do it instead
19 of asking them to do it, that's where it becomes
20 an issue for me, because of the fact that
21 ultimately we are making this unfair competition.
22 And as far as the slippery slope, I
23 believe it's a slippery slope. Because in
24 government, and as a businessperson myself, it
25 always starts with one and then it kind of rolls
722
1 downhill to others.
2 So do we say to state-chartered
3 banks you can no longer invest in automobile
4 companies because of greenhouse gas emissions,
5 you can no longer invest in a beverage company
6 because they sell sugary beverages and we know
7 sugar is bad? That is the slippery slope that
8 starts with a bill like this.
9 Wonderful intention, I understand
10 that. My concern is continuing to burden our
11 state-chartered banks and making them --
12 hopefully not making them something that no
13 longer happens and there's no more
14 state-chartered banks in New York.
15 So I will also be voting nay. Thank
16 you.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
18 Borrello to be recorded in the negative.
19 Senator Benjamin to explain his
20 vote.
21 SENATOR BENJAMIN: Thank you,
22 Madam President.
23 I want to thank Senator Borrello for
24 his comments. It is true that I was aggressively
25 advocating to Bank of America and other banks to
723
1 sort of divest from the private prison industry.
2 And we are fortunate that Bank of America and
3 other banks made that decision.
4 However, I want to state, as it
5 relates to New York, a couple of points. One is,
6 you know, the information that I'm receiving is
7 that part of the reason why New York State has
8 less chartered banks than it has in the past has
9 been because of acquisition. There have been a
10 number of federally chartered banks that have
11 been acquiring state-chartered banks, thus
12 reducing the amount of state-chartered banks.
13 And we can go back and forth about
14 if that's a good idea or not. But there is
15 evidence that speaks to that point, so I want to
16 make sure we put that in the conversation.
17 Also, I want to reiterate a point
18 that I made earlier that this bill was introduced
19 in 2019. Not one state-chartered bank has come
20 to us to say that they find any of the
21 provisions -- and it's a very simple bill -- of
22 this onerous.
23 And quite frankly, as the Senator
24 mentioned, they are in the business of lending
25 to -- of community-related lending. Right? We
724
1 want them to help finance, you know, sort of
2 automobiles and finance community centers and
3 things in the community. I don't want them
4 financing private prisons. And this is the
5 reason why this bill is here.
6 And I would reiterate again, we in
7 New York City have stated that we do not want
8 private prisons. It's illegal in New York State.
9 So if we say, as New York State, we do not want
10 to have the private prison industry here, why do
11 we then allow a loophole where state-chartered
12 banks can lend to what we're saying we don't
13 want? To me, that's inconsistent.
14 And what this bill helps to do is to
15 sort of tie these things together in a way that I
16 think people can feel good about. I would
17 imagine, if I'm working at a bank, I want to go
18 home and feel good about what I do for a living.
19 I don't want to think that I'm part of lending to
20 industries that profit off incarceration or
21 profit off of racism or profit off of things that
22 we generally find objectionable.
23 But as it relates to law, I do think
24 that this is not -- does not create a slippery
25 slope because we already say that private prison
725
1 correctional facilities in the State of New York
2 should be illegal.
3 So this is a very clean, tight
4 thing. And I would look -- if there are banks
5 with concerns, we'll talk to them. But we think
6 this is the right way to move forward.
7 And I want to thank our Majority
8 Leader, Andrea Stewart-Cousins, for bringing this
9 bill to the floor. And I look forward to this
10 bill becoming law and New York State being
11 finally completely out of the private prison
12 business. Thank you.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
14 Benjamin to be recorded in the affirmative.
15 Announce the results.
16 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
17 Calendar Number 188, those Senators voting in the
18 negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Boyle,
19 Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Jordan, Lanza,
20 Martucci, Mattera, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt,
21 Palumbo, Rath, Ritchie, Serino, Stec, Tedisco and
22 Weik.
23 Ayes, 43. Nays, 20.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
25 is passed.
726
1 Senator Gianaris, that completes the
2 reading of the controversial calendar.
3 SENATOR GIANARIS: Thank you,
4 Madam President.
5 Going back to motions for a moment,
6 on behalf of Senator Brooks, on page 17 I offer
7 the following amendments to Calendar Number 153,
8 Senate 1378, and ask that said bill retain its
9 place on Third Reading Calendar.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
11 amendments are received, and the bill shall
12 retain its place on the Third Reading Calendar.
13 SENATOR GIANARIS: Is there any
14 further business at the desk?
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: There is
16 no further business at the desk.
17 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to adjourn
18 until Monday, February 22nd, at 3:00 p.m.,
19 intervening days being legislative days.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: On
21 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until Monday,
22 February 22nd, at 3:00 p.m., intervening days
23 being legislative days.
24 (Whereupon, at 12:27 p.m., the
25 Senate adjourned.)