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Monday, March 15, 2021

3:37 PMRegular SessionALBANY, NEW YORK
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                                                               1396

 1                NEW YORK STATE SENATE

 2                          

 3                          

 4               THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

 5                          

 6                          

 7                          

 8                          

 9                  ALBANY, NEW YORK

10                   March 15, 2021

11                      3:37 p.m.

12                          

13                          

14                   REGULAR SESSION

15  

16  

17  

18  SENATOR SHELLEY B. MAYER, Acting President

19  ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary

20  

21  

22  

23  

24  

25  


                                                               1397

 1                P R O C E E D I N G S

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The Senate 

 3   will come to order.  

 4                I ask everyone present to please 

 5   rise and recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

 6                (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 

 7   the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   In the 

 9   absence of clergy, let us bow our heads in a 

10   moment of silent reflection or prayer.

11                (Whereupon, the assemblage respected 

12   a moment of silence.)

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Reading of 

14   the Journal.  

15                THE SECRETARY:   In Senate, Sunday, 

16   March 14, 2021, the Senate met pursuant to 

17   adjournment.  The Journal of Saturday, March 13, 

18   2021, was read and approved.  On motion, Senate 

19   adjourned.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Without 

21   objection, the Journal stands approved as read.

22                Presentation of petitions.

23                Messages from the Assembly.

24                Messages from the Governor.

25                Reports of standing committees.


                                                               1398

 1                Reports of select committees.

 2                Communications and reports from 

 3   state officers.

 4                Motions and resolutions.

 5                Senator Gianaris.

 6                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

 7   on behalf of yourself, I wish to call up 

 8   Senate Print 572, recalled from the Assembly, 

 9   which is now at the desk.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

11   Secretary will read.

12                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 42, 

13   Senate Print 572, by Senator Mayer, an act to 

14   amend the Education Law.

15                SENATOR GIANARIS:   I move to 

16   reconsider the vote by which this bill was 

17   passed.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

19   Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.

20                (The Secretary called the roll.)

21                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 61.  

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The bill 

23   is restored to its place on the Third Reading 

24   Calendar.

25                SENATOR GIANARIS:   I offer the 


                                                               1399

 1   following amendments.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 3   amendments are received.

 4                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

 5   there is a privileged resolution at the desk, 

 6   Senate Resolution 504, by Leader Stewart-Cousins.  

 7   Please take that up and read its title only.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 9   Secretary will read.

10                THE SECRETARY:  Senate Resolution 

11   504, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, in response to 

12   the 2021-2022 Executive Budget submission  

13   (Legislative Bills S.2500-A, S.2501, S.2502, 

14   S.2503, S.2504-A, S.2505-A, S.2506-A, S.2507-A 

15   S.2508-A, S.2509-A), to be adopted as legislation  

16   expressing the position of the New York State 

17   Senate relating to the 2021-2022 New York State 

18   Budget.  

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

20   Gianaris.

21                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

22   for the debate on this resolution, our 

23   Finance chair, Senator Krueger, will be 

24   responding for the Majority.  

25                We are ready for the debate.


                                                               1400

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 2   O'Mara.

 3                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

 4   Madam President.  Good afternoon.  

 5                Good afternoon, Chairwoman Krueger.  

 6   I look forward to discussing the Senate one-house 

 7   budget resolution that we have before us today.

 8                Madam President, will the sponsor -- 

 9   or will Senator Krueger yield for some questions.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   

11   Senator Krueger, do you yield?  

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I will be honored 

13   to yield, yes.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   

15   Senator Krueger yields.

16                SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator, what is 

17   the total in spending of this overall budget 

18   that's being proposed here by the Senate 

19   Majority?

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   The total is 

21   209.984 billion.

22                SENATOR O'MARA:   209.98 billion?  

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   209 billion, 

24   984 million.

25                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the Senator 


                                                               1401

 1   will continue to yield.

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 4   Krueger, do you yield?  

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I would, 

 6   Madam President.

 7                SENATOR O'MARA:   What was the total 

 8   of last year's enacted budget?  

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, just 

10   a clarification.  Last year versus the current 

11   year?

12                SENATOR O'MARA:   Well, no, the 

13   current -- I'm sorry.  The current year, yes.

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Okay, thank you.

15                194 billion, 330 million.

16                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

17   Madam President, will the sponsor yield.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: 

19   Senator Krueger, do you yield?  

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do, 

21   Madam President.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:  

23   Senator Krueger yields.

24                SENATOR O'MARA:   So, Senator, this 

25   increases spending year over year from this 


                                                               1402

 1   current year to next year by, from my 

 2   calculations, $15 billion, 650 million?

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Approximately 

 4   right.  I'll give it to you.  Yes, sir.  

 5                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

 6   Madam President, if the speaker -- if the Senator 

 7   will yield.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 9   Senator Krueger, do you yield?  

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, Madam Chair.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

12   Senator Krueger yields.

13                SENATOR O'MARA:   How much of this 

14   $15.6 billion increase is made up of federal 

15   funds that are coming through the recent stimulus 

16   package enacted?  

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I believe that 

18   the correct answer to that question is 3 billion 

19   that we've already received in federal stimulus, 

20   3 billion more that we're going to get in federal 

21   stimulus, plus 1.6 billion -- 1.5 for enhanced 

22   FMAP.  So that would total 7.5 million, 

23   approximately.

24                SENATOR O'MARA:   Billion, yes. 

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Billion, thank 


                                                               1403

 1   you.

 2                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

 3   Madam President, if the Senator would continue to 

 4   yield.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 6   Senator Krueger, will you continue to yield?  And 

 7   make sure you speak into the mic.

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.  Yes, 

 9   Madam President.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you.  

11                Senator Krueger yields.

12                SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator, it's 

13   certainly commonly perceived by New Yorkers out 

14   there that through the most recent federal 

15   stimulus package New York is expecting to get -- 

16   $12.6 billion?

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   In restricted 

18   aid, yes.

19                SENATOR O'MARA:   And those are 

20   unrestricted.  How much of that --

21                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Excuse 

22   me --

23                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

24   Madam President, if the sponsor will yield, 

25   continue to yield.  


                                                               1404

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 2   Krueger, do you yield? 

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you.  

 5                SENATOR O'MARA:   How much of that 

 6   12.6 billion in unrestricted funds coming in this 

 7   most recent stimulus package is being 

 8   incorporated into this budget resolution?  

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Six billion.

10                SENATOR O'MARA:   So that will -- 

11   through you, Madam President.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Does 

13   Senator Krueger continue to yield?  

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

16   Senator Krueger yields.

17                SENATOR O'MARA:   So that will then 

18   leave 6.6 billion to go towards the following 

19   year's fiscal year budget?  

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

21                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

22   Madam President.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

24   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do.


                                                               1405

 1                SENATOR O'MARA:   And it's my 

 2   understanding from the federal stimulus money 

 3   that both those two years, totaling 12.6 billion, 

 4   has to be spent by a certain date, I believe it's 

 5   September of 2023?

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   There may be a 

 7   couple of different dates for the different 

 8   purposed money.  So I want to say mostly.  

 9                But I also want to just have some 

10   staff person double-check my answer for you.  If 

11   you want to continue --

12                SENATOR O'MARA:   Yes.

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   -- and if we get 

14   an answer to confirm for you.

15                SENATOR O'MARA:   Sounds good.

16                Madam President, if the Senator will 

17   continue to yield.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

19   Krueger --

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   She 

22   continues to yield, Senator O'Mara.

23                SENATOR O'MARA:   In the terms of 

24   the state operating funds portion of the budget, 

25   what is the dollar amount and percentage increase 


                                                               1406

 1   in just state operating funds from this current 

 2   year into this proposed budget for next fiscal 

 3   year?  

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So the 

 5   question -- I'm sorry, through you, 

 6   Madam President, just to clarify.  The state 

 7   operating funds for the current fiscal year?  And 

 8   then you asked for how it goes through to the 

 9   next year?  I didn't quite understand that.

10                SENATOR O'MARA:   Just to clarify.  

11   The -- what's the increase in state operating 

12   funds from this year to the next year?  

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Approximately 

14   15 billion more between next year and this year.

15                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

16   Madam President.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

18   Senator Krueger, do you yield?  

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, of course.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

21   Senator Krueger yields.

22                SENATOR O'MARA:   What percentage 

23   increase is that in state operating funds from 

24   this current year into next year?

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   15.3 percent.


                                                               1407

 1                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you.  

 2                Madam President, if the sponsor -- 

 3   or if the Senator will continue to yield.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 5   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   She 

 8   yields.

 9                SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator, can you 

10   tell me or all of us what the CPI has been over 

11   this most recent 12 months?

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We're projecting 

13   2.2 for the upcoming fiscal year.

14                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

15   Madam President, just to clarify.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

17   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

20   Senator yields.

21                SENATOR O'MARA:   That's an estimate 

22   of an increase in the CPI of 2.2 percent?  

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   That is what I'm 

24   reading, yes, sir.

25                SENATOR O'MARA:   Okay.  Through 


                                                               1408

 1   you, Madam President.  

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 3   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 6   Senator yields.

 7                SENATOR O'MARA:   Given that CPI is 

 8   going to be 2.2 percent anticipated, how can this 

 9   Senate Majority justify a 15.3 percent increase 

10   in state funds spending?  

11                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I really 

12   appreciate that question, thank you.

13                Madam President, we can justify that 

14   because we are making investments in desperately 

15   needed programs and services for the people of 

16   New York, coming out of a pandemic, coming out of 

17   an economic crisis and, to be honest, coming out 

18   of too many years of austerity budgets where 

19   we've seen a cut -- almost death by a million 

20   cuts to critical programs and services.

21                So we are talking about an increase 

22   in the state budget significantly more than in 

23   past years.  We have both expenditures and a 

24   revenue plan to do so.  Not all of it requires 

25   new revenue.  Rather, about half of it is avails 


                                                               1409

 1   and other alternative uses for money.

 2                But we're talking about -- sorry -- 

 3   a real investment in our public schools 

 4   statewide, who have been crying out for help, 

 5   particularly the high-needs schools in poor 

 6   areas, urban, rural and suburb.  We're talking 

 7   about a commitment to Foundation Aid, which every 

 8   one of our school districts articulates desperate 

 9   need for.  We're talking about fully funding 

10   4-year-old pre-K.  

11                We're talking about an investment in 

12   construction for our libraries, and expansion of 

13   those services.  We're talking about fair funding 

14   adjustments for schools that come to us every 

15   year, Madam President -- the 853 schools, the 

16   4201 schools, the 4410 schools that have suffered 

17   from serious funding declines related to the 

18   COVID pandemic.  

19                We're talking about middle-class tax 

20   relief, even at a time when we have had money 

21   troubles, but we feel it is critical that we 

22   address the high taxes of our middle-class 

23   New Yorkers.  

24                We are talking about -- sorry, just 

25   have to turn the page, excuse me -- a real 


                                                               1410

 1   investment in keeping our New Yorkers healthy.  

 2   We all know how many people we've lost, but we 

 3   also learned a lot during this pandemic about the 

 4   lack of access to good, quality healthcare in so 

 5   many corners of the State of New York.  

 6                So we're investing more in our 

 7   public health structure and in making sure that 

 8   our underfunded safety net hospitals get some of 

 9   the funds that they desperately need.

10                And we realize that we're going to 

11   see many problems when we all take off these 

12   masks and leave our houses, in issues of drug 

13   dependence, mental health issues.  And so we're 

14   putting real money behind those programs and the 

15   things that we know they need.

16                We're also addressing safety in our 

17   nursing homes.  There's not one of us who serves 

18   in the Legislature, Democrat or Republican, who 

19   doesn't know the suffering that goes on and has 

20   been going on in nursing homes during this 

21   pandemic.  And truthfully, most of us knew there 

22   was a real problem there before also.  So we're 

23   making real investments in the care facilities 

24   and nursing homes and home care services for our 

25   most vulnerable elderly and disabled people.


                                                               1411

 1                We're also trying to make sure that 

 2   we have fairness for all New Yorkers in the way 

 3   that we distribute our resources.  We want to 

 4   make sure we keep New Yorkers in their homes, so 

 5   we're investing in New York State housing 

 6   authorities.  And we're investing money in making 

 7   sure that people can pay their rent, both 

 8   commercial and residential, and that people who 

 9   may have not totally lost their businesses but 

10   had to close or be forced to close for many, many 

11   months of this last year, get the money they need 

12   to kick-start themselves back into the economy, 

13   back into business.

14                We're also making a real investment 

15   in our colleges by addressing the TAP gap issue, 

16   which has been getting worse and worse every year 

17   in SUNY and CUNY, by increasing the maximum of 

18   TAP by a thousand dollars per student.  We're 

19   expanding our investment in our community 

20   colleges in Bundy Aid.  We're continuing to make 

21   investments in our mass transit, which took such 

22   a hit over the last year.  It's quite horrifying, 

23   actually, statewide the new needs that we have 

24   for mass transit.  

25                And we're working to invest in 


                                                               1412

 1   bringing our economy back to life with things, 

 2   you know, as -- what I might say as small as 

 3   $100 million for the New York State Council for 

 4   the Arts, to help the arts and nonprofit cultural 

 5   institutions rebuild themselves, to small 

 6   business grants, to commercial rent relief.  The 

 7   list just goes on and on and on.  

 8                Investments in our environment.  We 

 9   want to authorize the $3 billion Clean Water, 

10   Green Jobs, Green New York Bond Act.  That's not 

11   part of the budget, because it would be a bond 

12   act.  We talked about it last year, we supported 

13   it last year.  It never happened.  We want to go 

14   forward this year and make sure we get those 

15   bonded monies to complement all the really 

16   critical environmental stewardship proposals that 

17   we have within this budget and freestanding as 

18   legislation.

19                I could go on; there's 49 pages.  

20   But I think that was the general idea.

21                SENATOR O'MARA:   That's a -- that's 

22   a -- Madam President, if the Senator will 

23   continue to yield.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

25   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  


                                                               1413

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.  Thank 

 2   you.

 3                SENATOR O'MARA:   There's no doubt 

 4   that that is an impressive list, and you could go 

 5   on for quite some time with all of the increased 

 6   spending for these programs.  

 7                However, we have for pay for this.  

 8   And we have to continue to pay for this as we go 

 9   forward.  And while in honor of St. Patrick's Day 

10   I have my shamrock tie on today, I don't think 

11   the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow will 

12   come anywhere close to covering this 

13   $15.6 billion increase in spending.  And with the 

14   litany of items that you've laid out, I guess I 

15   should have worn my Christmas tie instead for 

16   this.  But I appreciate your outlining generally 

17   what's there.  

18                Now, for all those programs that 

19   you've talked about and in this $15.68 billion 

20   increase from year to year, how much of that 

21   15-plus-billion-dollar increase is going towards 

22   one-time COVID-related expenses as opposed to 

23   recurring annual spending?

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   One moment.  

25                Approximately half.


                                                               1414

 1                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

 2   Madam President, if the Senator will yield.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 4   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

 6                SENATOR O'MARA:   So then roughly 

 7   7.8 billion will be recurring year to year after 

 8   this.  And some of that will certainly be made up 

 9   with the second year of federal stimulus money 

10   coming.  After that year, there will be no more 

11   stimulus money -- at least it's planned at this 

12   point.

13                What does the state do when we get 

14   to this fiscal cliff in two years and we've had 

15   all this additional spending?  Because one thing 

16   in my tenure in Albany is it's very easy to start 

17   a program and increase funding, and it's very 

18   difficult to pull back on spending.  What is the 

19   state and our local governments to do when this 

20   stimulus money runs out over the next two years?  

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So thank you.

22                We are trying to ensure, in the way 

23   that we have laid out our one-house proposal, 

24   that the stimulus monies, the one-time monies 

25   from the federal government are being used in 


                                                               1415

 1   ways that are needed now but are not anticipated 

 2   to be new ongoing costs in the outyears.  

 3                And then we are investing in asking 

 4   New Yorkers who are able to pay a higher rate of 

 5   taxation to help us meet our needs on an ongoing 

 6   basis through new tax revenues.  

 7                So I should be clear.  This package 

 8   proposes tax reductions for people in the State 

 9   of New York who earn less than a million dollars 

10   a year.  We have a circuit breaker to help people 

11   who are what's called house rich but money poor, 

12   who are desperately trying to make sure they can 

13   pay their property taxes, so a circuit breaker to 

14   help them.  

15                We are not denying the continuation 

16   of the middle-class tax break -- which the 

17   Governor does end in his budget -- but we are 

18   making good on that commitment to continue that 

19   program.

20                And then we are asking New Yorkers 

21   who can actually afford to pay a higher rate of 

22   taxes to contribute more through the tax system 

23   in a variety of ways, and that will be ongoing 

24   year in, year out.

25                So we are asking wealthy individuals 


                                                               1416

 1   who make more than a million dollars a year to 

 2   go, Okay, we need an increase in taxes to help 

 3   our state.  We're asking businesses who I believe 

 4   earn $5 million and more to make an increase in 

 5   their corporate contributions.

 6                And so we are very confident that 

 7   the proposal we have put together provides us the 

 8   ongoing revenue for continuing programs while 

 9   using the money from the federal government as a 

10   stimulus to get us back on our feet, without an 

11   expectation that we can count on that.

12                I believe that answers the 

13   questions.

14                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

15   Madam President, if the Senator will continue to 

16   yield.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

18   Senator Krueger, do you yield?  

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   She 

21   yields.

22                SENATOR O'MARA:   So taking out the 

23   stimulus funds of 6 billion against the 

24   15.68 billion spending increase that this budget 

25   resolution creates -- and in years going forward 


                                                               1417

 1   you're talking about increasing taxes to cover 

 2   that from the cliff that will undoubtedly be 

 3   created in two years from this.

 4                Now, what is the total of the whole 

 5   tax package you've got here, on increasing taxes 

 6   on individuals and businesses in New York State?  

 7   Because my understanding on the middle-class tax 

 8   cut that you talked about, that's valued in total 

 9   at about $400 million.

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Sounds right.

11                SENATOR O'MARA:   But what is the 

12   total of increases in taxes to other 

13   non-middle-class payers?

14                I have it somewhere in the range of 

15   6.2, 6.3 billion dollars.  Is that in your 

16   ballpark?

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.  You're 

18   faster at my chart than I am.  Thank you.  

19   Approximately $6.2 billion.

20                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

21   Madam President, if the Senator will continue to 

22   yield.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

24   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.


                                                               1418

 1                SENATOR O'MARA:   Now I know that, 

 2   Senator, your side of the aisle does not share 

 3   the concerns that our side of the aisle has with 

 4   New Yorkers departing as their basic costs of 

 5   taxation increase upon them.  

 6                However, the -- as I read it, the 

 7   increase in income tax to high earners -- and 

 8   that is individuals making more than a million 

 9   dollars -- you're increasing their income tax 

10   rate from 8.82 percent to 9.85 percent, which is 

11   an 11.7 percent increase in the taxes they're 

12   paying to the State of New York.

13                Do you consider an 11.7 percent 

14   increase to be significant?  And do you consider 

15   it to be justified?

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do think it is 

17   justified.  I think that the research over 

18   decades of tax changes in PIT show that people 

19   actually don't make a decision about where to 

20   live or where to set up a business based on 

21   marginal changes in their PIT.

22                So I think for a person making over 

23   a million dollars a year or a couple making over 

24   $2 million a year, because that's the base, with 

25   an increase from 9 -- what is the number?  A 


                                                               1419

 1   change from 8.82 to 9.85 -- that most people will 

 2   take a look at what that means for them in their 

 3   taxes and say, Well, the feds dropped my taxes 

 4   significantly, so I'm actually ahead of the game.  

 5   I'm doing very well -- because most people who 

 6   are making a million for a single or over 

 7   2 million for a couple actually do believe 

 8   they're doing quite well. 

 9                Many of them made their money here 

10   in New York.  Ironically, many of them came to 

11   New York to be successful and make their money 

12   here.  They weren't even New Yorkers to start 

13   with.  They come from all over the world to come 

14   here and become our entrepreneurs and our new 

15   millionaires.  

16                And so I'm not too worried that 

17   people will look at this change in their PIT and 

18   say, I'm leaving New York.  I think New Yorkers 

19   understand, whether they are well-to-do or not so 

20   well-to-do, that we're actually in this together 

21   and this great state of ours only remains a great 

22   state if we have the infrastructure we need, if 

23   we have the educational system to get them the 

24   workers they want in their businesses.  If we 

25   have the infrastructure of mass transit and roads 


                                                               1420

 1   that get workers to and from the jobs that they 

 2   want to fill.  If we have investments that make 

 3   sure we have our great arts and culture back.  

 4   And we have clean water and we have clean air.  I 

 5   think that's what people care about more than a 

 6   marginal difference in their PIT, particularly 

 7   when they're wealthy.

 8                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

 9   Madam President, if the Senator will continue to 

10   yield.  

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

12   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do, 

14   Madam President.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

16   Senator yields.

17                SENATOR O'MARA:   I have really 

18   grave concerns on the departing of particularly 

19   the wealthy from New York State.  

20                And don't get me get me wrong, these 

21   high earners do not hail from the 58th Senate 

22   District that I represent in the Finger Lakes and 

23   Southern Tier region.  So I'm not kowtowing to 

24   constituents that I need to get reelected by 

25   having concerns over increasing their taxes and 


                                                               1421

 1   having them leave the state with their wealth and 

 2   the revenues that they generate for the rest of 

 3   us in New York.  

 4                You mentioned in your remarks prior 

 5   referencing the death by a thousand cuts or a 

 6   thousand slices.  The Chinese term for that is 

 7   lingchi.  And I reference that often in my 

 8   concerns over the impact that we could have and 

 9   we continue to have on the financial industry in 

10   New York State, which you know and we all know is 

11   so vitally important to our economy and 

12   significantly important to our overall state 

13   revenues here in New York.  

14                And we have seen some businesses 

15   from the financial industry relocate to other 

16   lower-taxed states -- Florida, Tennessee, Texas.  

17   And if we continue to see that, then we continue 

18   to kill the golden goose in New York State.

19                Do you have any concerns on your 

20   side of the aisle what the potential catastrophic 

21   impact to our overall State Budget would be if we 

22   see -- if we make that final slice and they 

23   decide to leave, what do we do then?  Because 

24   once it starts, we're not going to be able to 

25   turn it back.


                                                               1422

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 2   Madam President.  I so appreciate my colleague's 

 3   questions, and I appreciate him talking about 

 4   what matters and doesn't matter in his district.  

 5                So let me talk about my district.  

 6   My district is the 28th Senate District, in 

 7   Manhattan.  My district is the wealthiest 

 8   district in the State of New York.  I'm not 

 9   worried, either on behalf of myself, that I don't 

10   get elected again, nor am I worried that I won't 

11   still be the district with the wealthiest people 

12   in New York if I make this tax increase that will 

13   impact some of them.  

14                And I know people who say they're 

15   leaving for Florida or have even left for 

16   Florida, and I know people in Florida who are 

17   saying how much they miss New York and can't wait 

18   to come back here as soon as the masks come off 

19   and the disease is done, because they remember 

20   having left what it is that they loved about 

21   New York.

22                And I also know that many of them 

23   who actually left New York and might not come 

24   back, they're still making their money off their 

25   businesses in New York, so they'll still pay 


                                                               1423

 1   taxes in New York of a certain kind.  Maybe not 

 2   PIT, but they'll pay their other taxes off of 

 3   their business in New York.  

 4                And there is something about 

 5   New York, and there always has been, particularly 

 6   in my city, where people come to New York City to 

 7   build their wealth, they come to New York City to 

 8   innovate in their field, in creating new fields.  

 9                So even as we've seen some 

10   businesses -- the financial industry has been 

11   losing workers in finance now for a couple of 

12   decades.  We see new growth in other kinds of 

13   companies.  We worried that New York City 

14   wouldn't be a tech center.  It's a tech center.  

15   We worried that New York would miss out on other 

16   new models of economics that were coming forward.  

17   We diversified.  

18                We've gone through bad times.  I 

19   lived through 9/11 on Manhattan Island.  People 

20   left then, they weren't going to come back.  They 

21   did.  People are even saying the real estate 

22   market is bouncing back again already, and 

23   they're building giant new business towers in my 

24   district in Midtown.

25                So no, actually, I'm not that 


                                                               1424

 1   worried.  And the truth is they want to come 

 2   here, they want to stay here, they want to do 

 3   their business here if we're the great State of 

 4   New York.  The cuts that I'm talking about are 

 5   the cuts we've been making that make it less 

 6   likely that we do have all those great 

 7   attractions that make people want to come here 

 8   and build their businesses here and raise their 

 9   families here.  

10                So I'm not worried about anything 

11   we're proposing.  I worry that if we don't take 

12   steps to turn around the way we run our 

13   government and the services and the education and 

14   the infrastructure, that those are the things 

15   that kill the golden goose, not some marginal 

16   tax-rate increases, Madam President.

17                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

18   Senator Krueger.

19                Madam President, if the Senator will 

20   continue to yield.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

22   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

25   Senator yields.


                                                               1425

 1                SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator, we 

 2   spoke about the initial personal income tax rate 

 3   increase for those making over a million dollars.  

 4   But there's two other brackets of increases that 

 5   are in this proposal, if I'm not mistaken, that 

 6   would raise the income tax from 8.82 percent to 

 7   10.85 percent on taxpayers making over 5 million 

 8   dollars.  This would be a 23 percent increase in 

 9   their personal income tax burden just to the 

10   State of New York.  

11                And again, another bracket raising 

12   it for those making over 25 million -- who 

13   certainly I have even less sympathy for, but 

14   would hate to see them leave given how many of us 

15   regular Joe average taxpayers it will take to 

16   make up the loss of each and every one of these 

17   single high earners that may depart the state.  

18   But increasing their tax to 11.85 percent from 

19   8.82 percent is a 34 percent increase, nearly 

20   34.5 percent increase of their personal tax 

21   liability.  

22                Senator, over 10 years ago, after 

23   the census, New York has lost population compared 

24   to the rest of the country, and we've lost 

25   congressional seats as a result of that.  As of 


                                                               1426

 1   last year's census that's being completed, we 

 2   stand to lose another congressional seat -- or 

 3   maybe two -- because of population loss.  

 4                Do you not think there's any 

 5   relation to this population loss because of the 

 6   high tax burdens and cost of living in New York 

 7   State?

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 9   Madam President.  If you raise someone's taxes 

10   3 percent, you've still just raised their taxes 

11   3 percent, not the -- take a look and it's at 

12   23 percent.

13                Now, it is true we do go up for 

14   people who make more than 5 million a year, for 

15   people who make 10 million, 50 million.  There's 

16   not that many of them.  I don't really want to 

17   lose them, but I don't think we do.  

18                Because what we should understand 

19   about people who actually bring in over 

20   $5 million a year in taxable wage income, that's 

21   just a little piece of their annual income.  The 

22   wealthier you are, the less likely you are to 

23   derive your wealth from your paycheck.  Your 

24   wealth comes in all kinds of ways.  

25                But nobody really thinks they need 


                                                               1427

 1   that much cash, so they don't choose to take 

 2   their profits in however they're making their 

 3   money as income.  So it's a sort of unusual niche 

 4   in its own right to take that much money in 

 5   income.  And so some of those people might focus 

 6   on 3 percent more than anything else in their 

 7   lives.  With all due respect, I hope not, because 

 8   that's sort of sad.  You've got all that money 

 9   and all that opportunity and you're staring at 

10   your accountant's chart and saying, They took my 

11   PIT up 3 percent?  Okay.

12                But you know what, here's the price 

13   we're all paying if we don't do this.  The growth 

14   in inequality among -- in the tax system of 

15   New York State.  The growth in 1 percent of 

16   New Yorkers having 30, 40, 50 percent of the 

17   total resources of the rest of the state.  That's 

18   bad for everyone.  I would argue it's also bad 

19   for the people at the top.  

20                And I've got millionaires in my 

21   district who are telling me:  Yes, Liz, you 

22   should raise our taxes, there's something wrong 

23   out there.  It's not going the way we want it to, 

24   it's not the place we wanted to live.

25                And I hear them.  And I'm just as 


                                                               1428

 1   concerned that we are doing what's right for 

 2   other wealthy people who are saying, Please raise 

 3   my taxes, this is such an inequitable city and 

 4   state to live in at this time.

 5                And I also recognize that improving 

 6   the progressiveness of all of our taxes 

 7   encourages us year by year to recognize what we 

 8   need to do to be the great state and the great 

 9   city we want to raise our children in or our 

10   grandchildren to be able to stay in.  They won't 

11   be able to stay here if they don't have 

12   opportunity, if they can't afford to live in the 

13   community that their parents lived in, if as they 

14   get older they can't afford their property taxes 

15   in the community that they grew up in, perhaps 

16   raised their children in, who now want to raise 

17   their children in those same communities.  

18                We need to make sure we've got 

19   school systems that are available to those 

20   children and grandchildren.  We've got to make 

21   sure there's a reason people want to stay in the 

22   State of New York for generations.  And it's not 

23   marginal tax rates.  It never was.  And I don't 

24   believe there's anything in this package that 

25   will change that.  


                                                               1429

 1                Through -- oh, sorry, your turn.

 2                SENATOR O'MARA:   You have a 

 3   question for me, Senator? 

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I think I have.

 5                SENATOR O'MARA:   Madam President, 

 6   if the Senator would continue to yield.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 8   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

11   Senator yields.  

12                SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator Krueger, 

13   New York is known for having the most progressive 

14   tax system in the country.  And by "progressive," 

15   that's commonly understood that the wealthy are 

16   paying higher percentages of their income -- as 

17   opposed to those in lower income brackets -- than 

18   in other states.

19                So we are the most progressive.  And 

20   this income tax rate increase proposal that we've 

21   been talking about, according to our 

22   calculations, is going to generate an additional 

23   $4.3 billion.

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   That sounds 

25   right.  


                                                               1430

 1                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

 2   Madam President, if the sponsor will yield.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 4   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 7   Senator yields.

 8                SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator, I would 

 9   submit that likely, as you say, there's not all 

10   that many New Yorkers amount-wise, 

11   number-of-people-wise, in these tax brackets, 

12   that we're not talking about a whole lot of 

13   people.  But if we're not talking about a whole 

14   lot of people, and we're talking about spreading 

15   $4.3 billion across them, that sounds like a 

16   fairly significant impact to us.

17                I want to move on to the next.

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

19   Madam President, I'll just point out --

20                SENATOR O'MARA:   Okay.  We.

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   -- we make 

22   $110,000 a year here in this Legislature, I 

23   believe, so those amounts of money could seem 

24   like a lot of money to us.  

25                But again, we're just talking about 


                                                               1431

 1   a 2 percent increase or a 3 percent increase on 

 2   people who make radically more than what we make 

 3   here in the Senate.

 4                So it's sort of apples and apples, 

 5   if you look at it from the perspective of how 

 6   much they're earning versus what you're earning.

 7                SENATOR O'MARA:   Well, a 3 percent 

 8   increase on $100,000 is $3,000 --

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

10   O'Mara, are you asking --

11                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

12   Madam President, if the speaker -- through you, 

13   Madam President, if the Senator would continue to 

14   yield.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

16   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I would.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   She 

19   yields.

20                SENATOR O'MARA:   For those of us 

21   making $100,000 a year, that 3 percent would be 

22   $3,000.  If you're --

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   And so it's good 

24   we're not increasing his taxes, because it's not 

25   a million or more.


                                                               1432

 1                SENATOR O'MARA:   Well, I agree.  

 2   But if -- if -- when you ramp that up to a 

 3   million, that increases it by how much, that 

 4   3 percent?

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Three percent on 

 6   a million dollars is 30,000.

 7                SENATOR O'MARA:   A $30,000 

 8   increase.  To the lowest-level bracket of the 

 9   increases that we're doing.

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   It's 1 percent at 

11   that level, not 3 percent.  So it would be 

12   10,000.

13                SENATOR O'MARA:   One percent, 

14   10,000.  So we get up to 3 percent with those 

15   over 25.  The --

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

17   O'Mara, are you -- 

18                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

19   Madam President, if the sponsor -- would the 

20   Senator --

21                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you.  

22   Thank you.  Senator Krueger --

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I'm sorry, 

24   I'm happy to respond.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   She 


                                                               1433

 1   continues to yield.

 2                SENATOR O'MARA:   Correct.  And most 

 3   of that $4.3 billion increase, given the way 

 4   New York's business sectors are made up, I think 

 5   most of those are probably within the financial 

 6   industry of New York City, making that kind of 

 7   money.

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I actually don't 

 9   know, Madam President, what the jobs of people in 

10   different income brackets are, I'm sorry.

11                SENATOR O'MARA:   The next tax 

12   proposal -- through you, Madam President, I 

13   hadn't finished my question before she 

14   interrupted me.  So will the Senator continue to 

15   yield.

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

18   Senator yields.

19                SENATOR O'MARA:   You have, Senator, 

20   in your proposal a surcharge on capital gains 

21   that would generate another $700 million -- 

22   presumably, again, from those same wealthy 

23   individuals who we cherish so much here in 

24   New York.  Is that correct?

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So it is a 


                                                               1434

 1   1 percent surcharge on capital gains income of 

 2   taxpayers with incomes over 1 million as a single 

 3   filer or 2 million as a couple, correct.

 4                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

 5   Madam President, if the Senator would yield.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 7   Senator Krueger, do you yield?  

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I would.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Yes, the 

10   Senator yields.

11                SENATOR O'MARA:   Do you have an 

12   estimate of what the per-taxpayer impact of that 

13   $700 million capital gains increase would be?

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   No, because you 

15   would have to know -- excuse me.  Through you, 

16   Madam President.  I would need to know any 

17   individual's capital gains in the year that they 

18   were filing their taxes on.  So they would know, 

19   because you have to file with the federal 

20   government where there is capital gains, and you 

21   pay a much lower rate on capital gains than other 

22   income.  And then it would be a 1 percent 

23   addition for the State of New York.  

24                So I don't think we would know until 

25   we try.  And then we can look up how much we drew 


                                                               1435

 1   down.

 2                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

 3   Madam President, if the Senator will continue to 

 4   yield.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 6   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 9   Senator yields.

10                SENATOR O'MARA:   Wouldn't it make 

11   more sense to do some analysis beforehand about 

12   what the impact is going to be to individuals 

13   before throwing this dart out there and then 

14   finding out later what the impact is?  

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   The logic is that 

16   people who pay lower rates of capital gains from 

17   the federal government -- and they've seen a 

18   savings recently in changes in federal law -- 

19   they just pay a lower rate.  So you pay a lower 

20   rate on long-term capital gains at the federal 

21   level.  

22                So increasing your state taxes by 

23   just 1 percent on that income, which is already 

24   paying a lower level of taxation, is a reasonable 

25   approach to supplementing the revenue that we 


                                                               1436

 1   received at the state level.

 2                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

 3   Senator.  Madam President --

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do want to 

 5   point out the Senator is correct, it is also only 

 6   on high-income people.  Because there are 

 7   pensioners who get capital gains when they're 

 8   retiring and selling off stock.  This doesn't 

 9   apply unless your income is, again, above 

10   1 million or above 2 million for a couple.

11                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

12   Senator.

13                Through you, Madam President, if the 

14   Senator would continue to yield.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

16   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

19   Senator yields.

20                SENATOR O'MARA:   The next category 

21   of tax increases in the Senate Majority's 

22   proposal, estimated to generate another 

23   $1 billion from state taxpayers, is an 18 percent 

24   surcharge on corporate franchise taxpayers.  

25   Now -- oh, that's the Assembly Bill.  Never mind.  


                                                               1437

 1                (Laughter.)

 2                SENATOR O'MARA:   That's not in our 

 3   bill.

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Tomorrow's 

 5   debate.

 6                SENATOR O'MARA:   That's the debate 

 7   next -- in a couple of weeks.

 8                We are -- or not we, the Senate 

 9   Majority -- if I can continue my question, since 

10   I was off-base there, Madam President.

11                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.  

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

13   Senator continues to yield.

14                SENATOR O'MARA:   The Senate 

15   Majority's proposal, according to my notes here, 

16   increases corporate franchise taxes for a total 

17   of $964 million, so pretty close to that billion 

18   that the Assembly had in theirs.  Am I reading 

19   that correctly?  

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   That's correct.

21                SENATOR O'MARA:   Who pays -- or 

22   through you, Madam President, if the Senator will 

23   continue to yield.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

25   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  


                                                               1438

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 3   Senator Krueger yields.

 4                SENATOR O'MARA:   Can you explain to 

 5   us who pays this corporate franchise tax?

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Corporations.

 7                SENATOR O'MARA:   Is it any size?  

 8   Is there any category that isn't paying this 

 9   increase?  

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Over $5 million 

11   in gross -- (pause).  In business income, I just 

12   want to get that part right.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

14   Krueger, can you speak into the microphone?

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm so sorry.  

16   The new tax for corporations would apply to 

17   corporations who have corporate business income 

18   of over $5 million a year.

19                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

20   Senator.  

21                Through you, Madam President, if the 

22   Senator will continue to yield.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

24   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do.


                                                               1439

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 2   Senator yields.

 3                SENATOR O'MARA:   And your Senate 

 4   Majority proposal increases filing fees for LLCs, 

 5   limited liability companies, and LLPs, limited 

 6   liability partnerships, to generate another 

 7   $113 million in taxes.  Now I assume, since those 

 8   are new filings, that tax is on every one of 

 9   these new filers regardless of the size of their 

10   business.

11                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So we hold 

12   harmless LLCs with less than a million in gross 

13   income.  And it's actually not new, it's just 

14   some kind of increase in the fee structure.

15                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, Madam 

16   President, if the sponsor -- the Senator will 

17   continue to yield.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

19   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

22   Senator yields.

23                SENATOR O'MARA:   The way it's been 

24   explained to me is these are filing fees for LLCs 

25   and LLPs.  Are these for new formations, or are 


                                                               1440

 1   these annual renewals to determine who --

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Annual renewals.

 3                SENATOR O'MARA:   Okay.  So if 

 4   somebody is starting up, this doesn't apply to 

 5   them.

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   If they're 

 7   starting up, they wouldn't have -- I don't think 

 8   they'd have revenue of over a million dollars.  

 9   Because in theory you'd need to file the LLC 

10   before you start doing business.  Right?

11                SENATOR O'MARA:   I would agree.

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We both agree.

13                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

14   Madam President, if the sponsor -- if the Senator 

15   would continue to yield.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

17   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

20   Senator yields.

21                SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator, since the 

22   personal income tax rate increases are estimated 

23   to be bringing in $4.3 billion and the 

24   middle-class tax cut is supposed to be worth just 

25   $400 million, how come the Senate Majority is not 


                                                               1441

 1   proposing a larger cut for middle-class taxpayers 

 2   out of that expected growth of $4.15 billion?

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Well, we do 

 4   include a circuit breaker as well, which is 

 5   basically a middle-class property tax cut.  And I 

 6   believe that has an estimated value of 

 7   400 million as well.  

 8                And I think it would be a little 

 9   challenging to explain to people that you were 

10   raising the taxes of, that you were doing so to 

11   reduce the taxes of others.  So I completely can 

12   justify these two tax reductions for the middle 

13   class, but I think we all need to ask hard and 

14   long how much we would tax people just to give 

15   somebody else a tax cut.  

16                I personally find it easier to 

17   explain raising someone's taxes to pay for the 

18   infrastructure and public health and education 

19   needs of the State of New York than I would 

20   explaining I'm just going to keep raising taxes 

21   to give somebody else a tax cut.  Maybe that's 

22   just me, Madam President.

23                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

24   Senator.

25                Through you, Madam President, if the 


                                                               1442

 1   Senator would continue to yield.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 3   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Happily.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 6   Senator Krueger yields.

 7                SENATOR O'MARA:   I, Senator, agree 

 8   with you on the need for infrastructure 

 9   improvements across the board, all sizes of 

10   government, rural, suburban, urban.  And you 

11   talked about the infrastructure and you talked 

12   about the significant impacts to mass transit in 

13   New York City.  

14                It's been reported that capital 

15   improvement projects for the MTA average about 

16   seven times the cost of these improvements -- of 

17   the global average, the global average of these 

18   types of projects worldwide.  So New York City's 

19   MTA, seven times as expensive.  

20                What is in this one-house budget 

21   proposal that the Senate Majority has put forth 

22   that will rein in that excessive spending, way 

23   over and above what we should be spending and the 

24   value we're getting for every tax dollar we're 

25   spending on that?


                                                               1443

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We do put in 

 2   money for the MTA.  We've put in money for the 

 3   upstate mass transit systems as well.  And of 

 4   course the MTA covers 12 counties -- Long Island, 

 5   the Hudson Valley, Westchester.  

 6                But you're right, we all have 

 7   concerns that the MTA is exceptionally expensive 

 8   compared to other mass transit systems.  And I 

 9   believe there's -- not in budget per se that 

10   much, but we have done a number of pieces of 

11   legislation that work to hold the MTA more 

12   accountable for the money they are spending.  

13                So let me just read.  We restore 

14   568 million in Executive cuts for statewide mass 

15   transportation operating assistance and provide 

16   an additional 385 million over last year's 

17   levels.  We provide 150 million for additional 

18   funds for the Consolidated Local Streets and 

19   Highway Improvement Program and 100 million for 

20   the Urban Road Revitalization Program.  We 

21   provide an additional 175 million to support 

22   critical infrastructure improvements in the DOT 

23   capital plan, and another 100 million for Extreme 

24   Winter Recovery.  

25                And I also -- just because you 


                                                               1444

 1   absolutely were right when you talked about the 

 2   problems to our local governments, I believe that 

 3   we also reject the Governor's cuts to AIM funding 

 4   for our localities and give them back the sales 

 5   tax intercept money that we actually passed in a 

 6   previous year.  So that their internet sales tax 

 7   collections somehow got intercepted, and sort 

 8   of -- maybe if you worked really hard at it -- 

 9   became their AIM money, but at the end of the day 

10   it was just more cuts to our localities.  

11                So we put that money back because we 

12   do recognize our local governments everywhere 

13   throughout the State of New York need that money 

14   at the local level, for transportation projects 

15   and for so many other things.  

16                And this gentleman is going to tell 

17   me what else we are doing to rein in the 

18   excessive costs in the MTA.  We'll give him 

19   another minute, or I can just tell you other 

20   great things in our one-house budget while we're 

21   waiting.  

22                (Laughter; pause.)

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:  So I thank you, 

24   because we need to do more.  But we're not going 

25   to do it in the budget.  But I'm going to commit 


                                                               1445

 1   to you that you and I are going to work with our 

 2   transportation staff and committees and see what 

 3   more we can do to hold the MTA accountable 

 4   through more transparency, more information that 

 5   is made available to us and the public so we can 

 6   ask those hard questions and watch and try to 

 7   direct far more carefully the money that they are 

 8   getting from the federal government, which is the 

 9   bulk of the money towards the MTA at this point 

10   in time -- I believe it's a total of $8 billion.  

11                They've gotten approval for 

12   4 billion now, and in the new 2 billion pa -- 

13   2 trillion -- let's say that -- the new 

14   $2 trillion federal package, I believe they get 

15   another 4 billion.  

16                But I think that we all have to come 

17   up with more bells and whistles to make sure that 

18   we are watching much more carefully.  I 

19   completely agree with you.

20                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

21   Senator.  

22                Madam President, if the Senator will 

23   continue to yield.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

25   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  


                                                               1446

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 3   Senator yields.

 4                SENATOR O'MARA:   I appreciate that 

 5   sentiment, Senator Krueger.  I wish there was 

 6   some language on it in this budget resolution to 

 7   require that.  

 8                You know, I stand in front of my 

 9   colleague, Senator Lanza, who has for years 

10   pushed legislation requiring an independent audit 

11   of the MTA, which is still not being done.  

12                And the fact that we're spending on 

13   the MTA, and who knows what other programs, seven 

14   times the global average, we could be getting so 

15   much more bang for our buck if we had stronger 

16   oversight on the spending of their programs.  

17   Perhaps we could get seven times as many projects 

18   completed for the same amount of money if we 

19   reined in oversight and kept a thumb on how 

20   they're spending.  

21                Because it's easy for us to stand 

22   here and talk about billions of dollars and 

23   hundreds of millions of dollars, and it all 

24   sounds good, going to great causes.  But if we're 

25   just wasting it at seven times the global rate, 


                                                               1447

 1   it seems to me a very inefficient way to meet the 

 2   needs of New Yorkers.

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So again, thank 

 4   you.  Thank you for bringing up Senator Lanza's 

 5   efforts to get a forensic audit and accounting 

 6   and transparency.  

 7                Because I'm now reminded, we passed 

 8   that last year, Senator Lanza, and we passed 

 9   language requiring a transformation of how the 

10   MTA is operated and managed and the staffing.  

11                I don't think we've gotten the data 

12   yet of anything, but in theory we have done these 

13   mandates and we can try to push to get the 

14   information sooner than later, because I have no 

15   idea what the timetables are, and look at what we 

16   find in relationship to monies that go to them.

17                So thank you.

18                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

19   Senator.

20                Madam President, if the Senator will 

21   continue to yield.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator, 

23   do you continue to yield?  

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I shall, thank 

25   you.


                                                               1448

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 2   Senator yields.

 3                SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator, I'm told 

 4   I'm running out of time so we have time for other 

 5   members to speak.  But you brought up in our last 

 6   back-and-forth on the CHIPS funding and Urban 

 7   Road Revitalization, Extreme Winter Recovery 

 8   funding -- all with significant increases.  Which 

 9   I've been a champion of for years, and think this 

10   is fantastic.  

11                But, you know, the $150 million 

12   additional in CHIPS funding, bringing it to a 

13   total of $588 million -- that, to me, is one of 

14   the fairest programs we have in New York State on 

15   a distribution basis because it goes exactly to 

16   and for road mileage in every municipality, to 

17   help them with their local roads and bridges.  

18                But I don't understand why you're 

19   adding this $100 million Urban Road 

20   Revitalization Program which would be separate 

21   and apart from CHIPS and therefore not 

22   distributed through the CHIPS formula.  It would 

23   benefit only urban areas.  And there's no 

24   definition in the resolution of what the criteria 

25   of the "urban setting" is and how that money 


                                                               1449

 1   would be distributed.

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   All right, Tom -- 

 3   Senator.  So I've learned that, you know, you are 

 4   correct, we did put the increase in in CHIPS, and 

 5   we're very happy about that.  And we also put in 

 6   another hundred million in the Extreme Winter 

 7   Recovery, which I'm advised pretty much goes down 

 8   the same path as CHIPS, to the same places, 

 9   geographically distributed.  

10                But that there was a need, yet 

11   unmet, for the urban areas of New York -- not 

12   including New York City, so this is not New York 

13   City money.  But in the other cities throughout 

14   New York, that there are some real infrastructure 

15   needs in their areas that somehow for some reason 

16   don't get included in CHIPS.  Perhaps because 

17   they're cities; I'm not sure.

18                So we're working to try to make sure 

19   we can get some money to these 

20   outside-of-New York City cities to complete their 

21   or help address their urban roadway problems.

22                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

23   Madam President, if the Senator will continue to 

24   yield.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    


                                                               1450

 1   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.  Yes, 

 3   I do, Madam President.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 5   Senator yields.

 6                SENATOR O'MARA:   It's been my 

 7   understanding that CHIPS funding and Extreme 

 8   Winter Recovery funding over the years has in 

 9   itself flowed through New York City on the 

10   formula.  It's not just for upstate or Long 

11   Island or Lower Hudson Valley roads, it's the 

12   whole state, based on road miles.  

13                So you're taking an additional 

14   100 million that I would argue should go into the 

15   regular CHIPS to increase that from year to year 

16   for everybody -- and not just call out urban 

17   areas, because we all need safe roads and 

18   bridges.  

19                And I would like more information, 

20   if you could follow up with me, certainly if this 

21   survives getting to the final budget, just what 

22   the criteria is of an urban area that would 

23   partake in this funding and how it would be 

24   distributed.

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Again, I don't 


                                                               1451

 1   know how it will be distributed today, other than 

 2   that I know it's not coming to New York City.  

 3   But it is also true that urban roadways are more 

 4   densely congested and used, and they may have 

 5   unique infrastructure costs that you might not 

 6   see on a rural road.

 7                I wish I had a better answer for 

 8   you.  And I will send somebody to come talk to 

 9   you about it when we're not in a two-hour window 

10   on the floor, because it's a legitimate set of 

11   questions and we have come to the extent of my 

12   knowledge.

13                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

14   Senator.  Madam --

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   My knowledge on 

16   that specific issue.  I still have a little other 

17   information.

18                SENATOR O'MARA:   I'm well aware of 

19   that, Senator Krueger.

20                (Laughter.)

21                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

22   Madam President, if I could just speak on the 

23   resolution for a moment. 

24                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

25   O'Mara on the resolution.


                                                               1452

 1                SENATOR O'MARA:   This resolution, 

 2   increasing spending by over $15 billion at a time 

 3   when we're struggling from COVID, our economy is 

 4   trying to rebound, things are still not 

 5   reopened -- and moving towards significant 

 6   spending increases, much of which will be 

 7   recurring in future years when federal stimulus 

 8   money is not available to us -- I believe is very 

 9   shortsighted.

10                I believe New York State has 

11   received an unconscionable windfall from the 

12   federal government of $12.6 billion just for the 

13   state, let alone the other billions of dollars 

14   that are going to local governments across the 

15   state, that these spending increases are unwise, 

16   unnecessary and risky.  At the same time we're 

17   trying to rebuild our economy, we're increasing 

18   taxes in this proposal by over $6 billion.  That, 

19   to me, is unconscionable in this time of economic 

20   strife, with many businesses struggling just to 

21   keep their lights on.

22                And I will just close with a quote 

23   in reference to, you know, the Governor 

24   indicating that we were $15 billion in a hole.  

25   We have never seen a real true accounting of what 


                                                               1453

 1   that $15 billion shortfall is, nor did the 

 2   federal government.  Yet the federal government 

 3   is giving the state 12.6 billion.

 4                The revenue forecasts and 

 5   receipts -- revenue receipts have been coming in 

 6   ahead, well ahead of pace of what was 

 7   anticipated.  And they're forecast to have over 

 8   $2 billion increased revenue coming in that was 

 9   not anticipated through regular revenue 

10   collections.  That closes that $15 billion 

11   without the need to raise over $6 billion in 

12   taxes, and certainly not increasing spending by 

13   over $15 billion.  

14                I fail to see any rationale for 

15   increasing taxes on businesses that are 

16   struggling and increasing taxes on individuals 

17   that may well flee the state, taking substantial 

18   revenue with them.

19                It was tweeted by Senator Schumer's 

20   spokesperson after the COVID relief package of 

21   $2 trillion was announced that thanks to Senator 

22   Schumer, "New York State's budget deficit for 

23   this year is zero, nada, niete, zilch."  That was 

24   on March 8th.  

25                So the deficit is closed, very 


                                                               1454

 1   easily.  Yet this Majority wants to dig a further 

 2   hole going forward, that we will surely reach a 

 3   fiscal cliff in two years that will lead to even 

 4   graver consequences than we have today.

 5                Thank you, Senator Krueger.  And 

 6   thank you, Madam President.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

 8   Senator O'Mara.

 9                Senator Serino.

10                SENATOR SERINO:   Hello, 

11   Madam President.  Nice to see you.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Nice to 

13   see you too.

14                SENATOR SERINO:   And would 

15   Senator -- through you, Madam President, would 

16   Senator Krueger yield to some questions for me?  

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

18   Senator Krueger, do you yield?  

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course I do, 

20   Madam President.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

22   Senator yields.

23                SENATOR SERINO:   Great, thanks.  

24   Nice to see you, Senator Krueger.

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Good to see you, 


                                                               1455

 1   Senator Serino.

 2                SENATOR SERINO:   You know, from my 

 3   first year here, I've been talking about ticks.  

 4                So while I'm glad to see that your 

 5   proposal at least restores the meager $69,400 for 

 6   Lyme and tick-borne disease work at the 

 7   Department of Health, your one-house in the past 

 8   has specifically lined out $1 million to combat 

 9   the spread of Lyme and tick-borne diseases.  

10   Ultimately, that figure was reduced to $250,000 

11   in the final State Budget in both of the last two 

12   years.  

13                But this year I do not see any other 

14   funding specifically lined out for Lyme and 

15   tick-borne diseases here in this resolution.  

16                So does this one-house budget 

17   proposal include specific money for research, 

18   education or prevention initiatives for Lyme and 

19   tick-borne diseases?  

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   One second while 

21   I confer with staff, Senator Serino.

22                SENATOR SERINO:   Thank you.

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I am being 

24   advised that we did restore the $250,000.

25                SENATOR SERINO:   It is restored?  


                                                               1456

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 2                SENATOR SERINO:   As a line item?  

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 5   Serino --

 6                SENATOR SERINO:   Oh, I'm sorry.  

 7   Through you, Madam President.  

 8                Thank you.  I was going to ask you 

 9   if you could commit to more than the $250,000 

10   this year, in light of how we keep on having more 

11   increases of Lyme and tick-borne disease, so -- I 

12   just urge you to make it a priority.  As you can 

13   imagine, we hear from so many people.

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I can't commit to 

15   anything -- oh, through you, Madam President.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you.

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So sorry.  

18                I can't commit to anything beyond 

19   what we've put in today in the one-house, but 

20   we're going to be continuing to negotiate the 

21   budget with the Assembly and the Governor.  And 

22   on a personal note, I agree this is a serious 

23   issue.  You have been an incredible spokeswoman 

24   on behalf of it.  And I am hoping that there 

25   may be an ability to be of assistance.


                                                               1457

 1                SENATOR SERINO:   Thank you, 

 2   Senator Krueger.  

 3                Through you, Madam President, would 

 4   the Senator continue to yield?  

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 6   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do.  Thank you, 

 8   Madam President.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

10   Senator yields.

11                SENATOR SERINO:   This resolution 

12   states that nursing home reforms are not included 

13   in the one-house budget proposal because a 

14   package has already passed in this house.  

15   However, many of the bills in that package were 

16   one-house bills with no sponsors in the Assembly.

17                So while I don't believe that these 

18   issues should be negotiated behind closed doors 

19   as part of the budget process, the Governor has 

20   said publicly that he will not sign a budget that 

21   doesn't include his reform plan.  And I'm 

22   wondering how you plan to resolve the issues 

23   between the two houses and the Executive when it 

24   comes to these proposed reforms.

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So through you -- 


                                                               1458

 1   I'm sorry, through you, Madam President.  I just 

 2   want to -- so the good news, Senator Serino, is 

 3   apparently of the bills that we passed in nursing 

 4   home reform, the Assembly has already passed five 

 5   or six of them.  And we are hoping that we will 

 6   get them in agreement with us for the remaining 

 7   five or six, because we passed quite a large 

 8   package.  So we're moving on those.

 9                The other good news is there is 

10   $200 million more for nursing homes within this 

11   one-house budget.

12                SENATOR SERINO:   And through you, 

13   Madam President.  I would just hope that, you 

14   know -- 

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Will the 

16   Senator yield?  Senator Serino --

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I will yield.

18                SENATOR SERINO:   Oh, I'm sorry, 

19   would you continue -- I actually just have -- 

20   well --  

21                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   I 

22   understand.  But --

23                SENATOR SERINO:   Okay.  Through 

24   you, Madam President, would the Senator continue 

25   to yield.


                                                               1459

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 2   Senator Krueger, will you continue to yield?  

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 5   Senator yields.

 6                SENATOR SERINO:   I would also hope 

 7   that their investigations that go forward are 

 8   going to play a critical role in what needs to 

 9   happen here with any nursing home reforms.  So, 

10   you know, before anything gets done, I do believe 

11   that that needs to happen as well, to have a real 

12   plan.

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Both sides of the 

14   aisle completely agree on that.  We need to get 

15   down to understanding what's going wrong in these 

16   facilities and what we need to do to make sure 

17   that nothing like this ever happens again.

18                SENATOR SERINO:   Thank you.

19                Through you, Madam President, would 

20   the Senator continue to yield.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

22   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

25   Senator yields, Senator.  


                                                               1460

 1                SENATOR SERINO:   And you mentioned 

 2   about 200 million, Senator.  The proposal 

 3   contains 200 million to increase nurse staffing 

 4   levels for nursing homes and acute care 

 5   facilities.  

 6                It's great to have this funding, but 

 7   if there aren't qualified candidates ready to be 

 8   hired, you still have a problem.  So does this 

 9   budget propose any solutions for the nursing 

10   shortages that the state currently faces?

11                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We restored money 

12   for workforce retention that the Governor had cut 

13   out of the budget.  No, that's not by definition 

14   for nursing, but it would certainly include 

15   nursing.  And it's worth us all working together 

16   to make sure that that's a possibility.

17                I think that the nursing 

18   shortages are also regionally different, so we 

19   also need to understand how we help with nursing 

20   where there is shortages and, say, home care 

21   workers where it's home care workers and 

22   something else somewhere else.

23                So I agree that we do -- I recognize 

24   that there's a nursing shortage in certain areas 

25   of the state that we need to focus on.


                                                               1461

 1                SENATOR SERINO:   And I -- 

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   

 3   Senator Serino.

 4                SENATOR SERINO:   Oh, through you, 

 5   Madam President, will the Senator will continue 

 6   to yield.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 8   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

11   Senator yields.

12                SENATOR SERINO:   So I would hope 

13   that the funding would be flexible and that it 

14   could be used to support training and retention 

15   programs.  And anything that needs to be spelled 

16   out that it says that -- like you said about, you 

17   know, specifically for nursing.  

18                You know, because I think that if we 

19   continue to have a nursing shortage, it doesn't 

20   matter if we throw money at the problem if there 

21   really are no qualified nurses.  And I think we 

22   saw that during COVID.  And I had a bill last 

23   year too that would utilize displaced hospitality 

24   workers.  And in there, some of that language you 

25   might even be able to use as part of this, it 


                                                               1462

 1   might be helpful.

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 3   Madam President.  So the way we've written the 

 4   language, it is very flexible.  And my staff have 

 5   assured me that when they go to the table to 

 6   negotiate three-way, they will take this as 

 7   advice on what we should be doing.  So thank you.

 8                SENATOR SERINO:   Through you, 

 9   Madam President, will the Senator continue to 

10   yield.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

12   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, ma'am.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

15   Senator yields.  

16                SENATOR SERINO:   One of the major 

17   concerns that we heard about at last year's 

18   nursing home hearings was a lack of access to and 

19   support for the long-term-care ombudsman program, 

20   which advocates for nursing home residents and 

21   families.  

22                I had proposed at least $5 million 

23   to bolster that program.  The Assembly's 

24   resolution lines out $1 million for it.  Do you 

25   know if there's any specific funding to enhance 


                                                               1463

 1   this critical program in the Senate's resolution?  

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So we did -- 

 3   through you, Madam President.  We did pass a bill 

 4   recently to expand the program, but there is not 

 5   lined-out money in the budget to expand it at 

 6   this time.  And so you're proposing $5 million.  

 7   I will continue to be your advocate, 

 8   Senator Serino.

 9                SENATOR SERINO:   Thank you.

10                Through you, Madam President --

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Will the 

12   Senator continue to yield?  Senator Krueger, do 

13   you continue to yield?  

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

16   Senator Krueger yields.

17                SENATOR SERINO:   Thank you, 

18   Senator Krueger.  And as we know, it has to be 

19   lined out, you know.  Because otherwise, 

20   unfortunately, other things take a priority.  So 

21   I appreciate that.

22                Would the Senator -- through you, 

23   Madam President, would the Senator continue to 

24   yield for a last question.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    


                                                               1464

 1   Senator Krueger, do you yield?  

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do yield.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 4   Senator yields.

 5                SENATOR SERINO:   And then this is 

 6   something that I've talked about for years too.  

 7   Facilities caring for low-income individuals that 

 8   are paid through SSI have only had one rate 

 9   increase in more than 20 years, which has 

10   resulted in closures of these facilities across 

11   the state.  

12                In the past, the State Senate 

13   has championed legislation to phase in an 

14   increase to the SSI rate which would help support 

15   some of our most vulnerable neighbors.  Do you 

16   know if this resolution contains any funding to 

17   increase this rate?  

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm sorry, 

19   Madam President, through you, can I just get 

20   clarification?  This is the personal need 

21   allowance within SSI --

22                SENATOR SERINO:   In SSI, yes, it's 

23   like $32 --

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   -- for people who 

25   are living in a group or a facility, right?  


                                                               1465

 1                SENATOR SERINO:   Yes.

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I just want to 

 3   make sure I understood the question correctly.

 4                I don't believe there's anything in 

 5   our one-house budget, but I believe we have 

 6   legislation that's moving that supports this.  

 7                And without offending you, are you 

 8   really not a liberal Democrat from New York City?  

 9   Because you and I seem to be so in-tune on 

10   many of the issues we're discussing today.

11                SENATOR SERINO:   Do you know, there 

12   are so many -- oh, sorry.  Through you, 

13   Madam President.  

14                (Laughter.)

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

16   Senator Krueger, do you wish to continue to 

17   yield?  

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm sorry.  No, I 

19   will -- I took her time, Madam President.  I will 

20   yield back to the Senator.

21                SENATOR SERINO:   Thank you, Senator 

22   Krueger.  You know, there's so many things that 

23   don't have an R or a D attached to them, right?  

24   You know, I think there's more that we agree upon 

25   than disagree.  


                                                               1466

 1                But I think, you know, with the 

 2   assisted living home facilities, I know that -- 

 3   you know, our ultimate goal, we would love to 

 4   have people living in their own homes, but for so 

 5   many people that's not an option.  And seeing so 

 6   many of these facilities have to close, you know, 

 7   I think this increase in funding is so important.  

 8                And, you know, to have quality of 

 9   care, in whatever way that might be, for these 

10   individuals is very important to me, I know 

11   personally, and I appreciate whatever can be 

12   done.

13                So I'm good.  Thank you, 

14   Senator Krueger, for answering all of my 

15   questions.  Thank you, Madam President.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

17   Senator Serino.

18                Senator Helming.

19                SENATOR HELMING:   Thank you, 

20   Madam President.  

21                I rise today to ask --

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Excuse me, 

23   Senator Helming.  Are you asking questions or are 

24   you going to speak on the bill?  

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm just 


                                                               1467

 1   wondering whether to sit or not.  Are you asking 

 2   questions?

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Are you 

 4   asking questions, Senator Helming?  

 5                SENATOR HELMING:   Yes.  I was just 

 6   about to say that.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Okay.  I 

 8   got ahead of you.

 9                SENATOR HELMING:   I'll start over.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Okay.

11                SENATOR HELMING:   Madam President, 

12   if the Finance chair is agreeable, I'd like to 

13   ask a few questions as the ranking member of the 

14   Housing Committee.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you.  

16   Senator Krueger, do you yield?

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

19   Senator yields.

20                SENATOR HELMING:   Thank you.  

21   Through you, Madam President.  

22                Senator Krueger, I have to say that 

23   it's wonderful to see you in person.  I've seen 

24   you in many hearings and also even on television 

25   recently, but it's great to see you in person.


                                                               1468

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.

 2                SENATOR HELMING:   I want to thank 

 3   you and Senator O'Mara as well for the many, many 

 4   hours that you spent listening to the testimony 

 5   and hosting the hearings.  Thank you for that.

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.

 7                SENATOR HELMING:   So as I said, I 

 8   had a couple of questions, primarily on housing 

 9   matters.  

10                The 2019 Housing and Tenant 

11   Protection Act created a temporary commission, 

12   known as the New York State Temporary Commission 

13   on Housing Security and Tenant Protection.  This 

14   commission was directed by the Legislature to 

15   study the impacts of statewide housing to provide 

16   recommendations back to the Legislature.

17                And Senator Krueger, I'm wondering, 

18   has this commission weighed in on any of the 

19   recommendations that are in this budget proposal?

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   No, it has not.

21                SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

22   Madam President.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

24   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, of course I 


                                                               1469

 1   do.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 3   Senator yields.

 4                SENATOR HELMING:   Is there a reason 

 5   why the commission was not asked to review the 

 6   proposals and offer their feedback?

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.  

 8   Through you, Madam President.  As I think we're 

 9   familiar, there's a whole process for seating a 

10   commission that involves recommendations and 

11   confirmations through the Governor.  And that has 

12   not happened yet, so the commission has not 

13   started its work.

14                SENATOR HELMING:   Thank you.  

15                Through you, Madam President.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

17   Senator Krueger, do you yield?  

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

20   Senator yields for additional questions.

21                SENATOR HELMING:   Senator Krueger, 

22   within the budget reso, there is an item -- the 

23   title is Housing Our Neighbors With Dignity 

24   Act -- and my understanding is that this is 

25   basically to repurpose commercial space for 


                                                               1470

 1   housing.  The reso includes language to 

 2   incentivize the conversion of commercial 

 3   buildings, including hotels, into affordable 

 4   housing.  Would you say that that's an accurate 

 5   description?

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.  I think it 

 7   may be unique to New York City.  I don't think 

 8   it's a statewide program, I think it's a New York 

 9   City program.

10                SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

11   Madam President, if the Senator would continue to 

12   yield.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

14   Krueger, do you continue to yield?

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

17   Senator yields.

18                SENATOR HELMING:   How much money is 

19   designated for this program?  

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

21   Madam President, $259 million.

22                SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

23   Madam President, if the Senator would continue to 

24   yield.

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm sorry, I 


                                                               1471

 1   misspoke, 250.  Two hundred fifty million.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 3   Senator Krueger --

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   And yes, I will 

 5   be happy to yield.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 7   Senator yields.

 8                SENATOR HELMING:   Senator Krueger, 

 9   so I'd like to share with you that I think this 

10   sounds like a very interesting program.  I've 

11   spoken to a number of advocates who are in favor 

12   of this.  Even in my district, upstate New York, 

13   I've met with a hotel owner who he heard about 

14   this program, is so excited.  He has a hotel that 

15   is empty right now.  It's in a beautiful 

16   location.  We have a definite need to help house 

17   homeless people.  

18                But I'm just disappointed to hear 

19   that this $250 million will be used primarily for 

20   the Manhattan area.  And I'm wondering, are there 

21   any proposals that would assist in changing 

22   underutilized commercial properties, including 

23   hotels, into affordable housing outside of the 

24   Manhattan area?  

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So this specific 


                                                               1472

 1   proposal was a replacement for a different 

 2   proposal by the Executive that we rejected, and 

 3   that was for New York City only.  So I think this 

 4   sort of became New York City only because it was 

 5   replacing a New York City only.  

 6                But we all agree there's no reason 

 7   why there isn't a possibility of using housing 

 8   dollars in the state budget for a model like this 

 9   if some other area wanted it.

10                So, you know, there are a variety of 

11   different models of funding for housing that 

12   exist in the current state budget, and we are 

13   trying to add to it this year.  So I actually 

14   think that if you have someone who's really 

15   interested in this, we should get this budget 

16   done and then all go together to DHCR and say, 

17   Hey, there's a great idea right here.

18                SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

19   Madam President.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

21   Senator Krueger, will you continue to yield?  

22                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

24   Senator yields.  

25                SENATOR HELMING:   Senator Krueger, 


                                                               1473

 1   I appreciate your willingness to look at this.  

 2   But the time is now.  People homeless throughout 

 3   the state, they need help now.  I don't know if 

 4   there are other programs in the budget to help 

 5   address this, but so do the small business 

 6   owners.  It's not only business owners in 

 7   Manhattan that are struggling, it's throughout 

 8   the state.  

 9                And I appreciate, like I said, your 

10   willingness to look at this after the budget, but 

11   my question is will you look now during the 

12   negotiations?  Will you make this a priority now 

13   to open up that program to small businesses 

14   owners throughout the State of New York?  

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   One second.  

16                So it's Senator Gianaris's bill that 

17   became the proposal in our one-house, which is 

18   why I was oddly turning to him to chat about it.  

19   It seemed logical.  And he is open to having that 

20   discussion.

21                SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

22   Madam President.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

24   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.


                                                               1474

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 2   Senator yields.  

 3                SENATOR HELMING:   Thank you both.  

 4   I appreciate that.  It's very important, like I 

 5   said, to people throughout the state.

 6                I want to turn now to the COVID-19 

 7   Emergency Rental Assistance Program.  The 

 8   one-house resolution provides for the creation of 

 9   this Emergency Rental Assistance Program, and it 

10   appears to me that the program is funded by a 

11   sweep of all of the federal dollars that are 

12   allocated for rent and utility assistance.

13                Senator Krueger, how much federal 

14   funding is expected to be directed to this 

15   program?  

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So our 

17   understanding is that the locals have their own 

18   shares, that we're not sweeping, we're just 

19   taking the money from the two different federal 

20   streams and saying, Okay, these go to these 

21   programs, which to some degree mandated how 

22   they're used by the federal money.  So we don't 

23   believe we are sweeping.

24                SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

25   Madam President.


                                                               1475

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 2   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 3                SENATOR HELMING:   So, 

 4   Senator Krueger, last spring the state received 

 5   $100 million in federal funding.  I've talked 

 6   about this funding numerous times on this floor, 

 7   in committee, et cetera.  Less than half of that 

 8   money was delivered to the tenants and landlords 

 9   who so desperately need it.  

10                In December the state received 

11   another $1.3 billion.  And we've all seen it, 

12   we've all agreed to it that New York State has 

13   had difficulty getting the federal dollars out 

14   the door.  It's like turned into this 

15   bureaucratic nightmare, right?  And the 

16   restrictions have been so tight to gain access to 

17   the funding that basically no one has qualified.  

18   Which, you know what, now as I'm talking about 

19   this, you know what I'm thinking about?  It 

20   sounds very similar to the rollout of the 

21   COVID vaccine.  The requirements were so strict 

22   with the hospitals that vaccines got wasted 

23   instead of going into the arms of people.  

24                But back to this funding, does the 

25   resolution -- in order for us to get this money 


                                                               1476

 1   out to the people who need it so much, does the 

 2   reso include clear and succinct language to 

 3   ensure this federal money gets into the hands of 

 4   small landlords in a timely manner?  

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Okay.  So it is 

 6   true that there was a hundred million dollars of 

 7   unrestricted federal money that we got the 

 8   Governor to agree to put into a pilot program, 

 9   really to show that we could get it out quickly 

10   to people who needed it.

11                And yes, you are right, on their 

12   first round they only spent about half of 

13   100 million.  

14                They did a second round.  Do we know 

15   how much they finally got out.

16                SENATOR HELMING:   No.  No, it's 

17   still --

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   It's still in 

19   review process.  

20                So in our one-house bill we are 

21   carefully following the language of a bill 

22   proposed by Senator Kavanagh where it lines out 

23   what is supposed to happen.  And it's pretty 

24   strictly matching what the federal law says we 

25   can do with it.


                                                               1477

 1                So we're hoping that we can move 

 2   things more quickly than we had in the past and 

 3   it would go through OTDA instead of DHCR.

 4                I don't know your experience in your 

 5   counties.  My experience in my city is OTDA is 

 6   the agency -- or HRA, the local social services 

 7   district -- is the agency that has the 

 8   relationship with the landlords and the 

 9   third-party vendor payment structure set up.  And 

10   so I'm pretty optimistic that that will work 

11   fairly efficient.  

12                Obviously every county has its own 

13   model for how they've been doing things, so I 

14   can't speak for whether that would work exactly 

15   right.  But the feds are pretty strict about 

16   who's eligible and how, with the new money.  So 

17   we have to fit into their boxes.

18                SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

19   Madam President.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

21   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

22                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do.  

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

24   Senator yields.

25                SENATOR HELMING:   So just a comment 


                                                               1478

 1   on that last statement.  Other -- many other 

 2   states in this nation were able to move that 

 3   money out.  It's unique to new York that so much 

 4   was stalled.  

 5                I'm met with landlord associations 

 6   from around the state.  Typically these are the 

 7   smaller organizations, organizations like SPOONY, 

 8   the Small Property Owners of New York; 

 9   Finger Lakes Landlord Association; and Under One 

10   Roof Coalition.  They want to be supportive, more 

11   supportive of some of these bills --

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So --

13                SENATOR HELMING:   I didn't ask the 

14   question yet.

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I know, but 

16   that's -- I'm sorry.  Please.

17                SENATOR HELMING:   These 

18   associations and their members provide an 

19   invaluable service.  They provide safe and secure 

20   housing that is so, so desperately needed.  And 

21   as a state I believe it's part of our 

22   responsibility to protect these business owners 

23   and the housing that they provide for people who 

24   need it.  

25                When I hear from these groups, their 


                                                               1479

 1   primary concern is they don't feel like they're 

 2   involved in the decision making.  They don't 

 3   really have an opportunity to contribute 

 4   information that helps shape these decisions that 

 5   are made.

 6                Specifically, as part of the Rental 

 7   Assistance Program, there's a requirement that 

 8   landlords must cooperate in order to get paid.  

 9   But I think everyone here, we must keep in mind 

10   that there are many landlords who have tried to 

11   work with tenants during the pandemic but have 

12   still lost significant income due to unpaid rent.  

13                And to add insult to injury, if you 

14   will, these landlords continue to do their best 

15   to work with the tenants, who are not always 

16   cooperative.  These tenants have refused to apply 

17   for the previous round of assistance and/or 

18   they've moved out or abandoned rental units, 

19   leaving the landlords with thousands of dollars 

20   in unpaid rent and utilities.

21                Senator Krueger, my question is, 

22   does the one-house bill ensure that all tenants 

23   in arrears or facing eviction for nonpayment or 

24   who have left the landlord unpaid are required to 

25   cooperate with the landlord in order to file an 


                                                               1480

 1   application?  

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   My understanding 

 3   is up to 120 percent of AMI, they do.  They do 

 4   have to cooperate.  And under the new federal 

 5   monies, the landlords can apply for the money 

 6   even if the tenant is not cooperating.

 7                SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

 8   Madam President.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

10   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

11                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

13   Senator yields.  

14                SENATOR HELMING:   Senator Krueger, 

15   I would be interested in having that section of 

16   the reso pointed out to me where it says that.  

17   And later is fine.

18                But maybe you could answer me, what 

19   happens if a landlord accepts the rental payment 

20   under this new program.  What consequences are 

21   there to the landlord?

22                SENATOR KRUEGER:   If you accept the 

23   arrears money, you cannot evict for a year.  So 

24   that is what the landlord is exchanging for 

25   getting the federal money.  And it's 15 months 


                                                               1481

 1   maximum in back-rent arrears that they can 

 2   receive.

 3                And the section of the -- the bill 

 4   number that matches the one-house budget is 

 5   S2742C.

 6                SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

 7   Madam President.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 9   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

12   Senator yields.

13                SENATOR HELMING:   So just to 

14   clarify, if a landlord participates in this 

15   program, is there a one-year freeze on the rent 

16   and utility?  Is the landlord -- you know, they 

17   can't increase any rent, they can't increase any 

18   utilities for a year?

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   They can't 

20   increase their rent.  It doesn't apply to 

21   utilities.

22                SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

23   Madam President.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

25   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?


                                                               1482

 1                SENATOR HELMING:   Senator Krueger, 

 2   I just --

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   So one 

 4   moment.  Excuse me, Senator Helming.  

 5                Senator Krueger, do you continue to 

 6   yield?  

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, of course.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 9   Senator yields.

10                SENATOR HELMING:   I believe that is 

11   a change from Senator Kavanagh's bill, because I 

12   remember specifically asking this question and 

13   reviewing it in committee.  It's my understanding 

14   the bill froze both the rent and the utilities.  

15   But we can clarify that later.

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I don't know how 

17   to answer that one.  I think this needs to be a 

18   conversation with Senator Kavanagh at the moment 

19   because -- I used to be on the Housing Committee 

20   with you all, but I'm no longer on the 

21   Housing Committee, so I wasn't at the committee 

22   meeting.  

23                But Nic can also follow up with you 

24   afterwards on anything that she might be aware of 

25   that did or didn't happen in the 


                                                               1483

 1   Housing Committee.

 2                SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

 3   Madam President.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 5   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 8   Senator yields.

 9                SENATOR HELMING:   Senator Krueger, 

10   this budget reso allows the Governor to 

11   unilaterally close correctional facilities within 

12   180 days notification.  Does the budget reso 

13   provide any additional resources for 

14   post-incarceration housing?  

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We extended the 

16   notice to six months.  And no, it doesn't say 

17   anything about post-incarceration housing.

18                SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

19   Madam President.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

21   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

22                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

24   Senator yields.

25                SENATOR HELMING:   Are there any 


                                                               1484

 1   provisions in the budget reso for the reuse of 

 2   closed facilities, maybe for housing, rehab, 

 3   et cetera?

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   There are 

 5   provisions that allow local governments to 

 6   repurpose the buildings.

 7                SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

 8   Madam President.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

10   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?

11                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

13   Senator yields.

14                SENATOR HELMING:   Is there anything 

15   in this budget resolution that would formally end 

16   the practice of double-bunking?

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So I think the 

18   answer is no.  Unless your next question is about 

19   HALT, and then there are some issues.   

20   (Inaudible.)  

21                SENATOR HELMING:   (Overtalking.)  

22   Through you, Madam President.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

24   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm sorry, yes, I 


                                                               1485

 1   do continue to yield.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 3   Senator yields.

 4                SENATOR HELMING:   Senator Krueger, 

 5   I think you would agree with me that there's a 

 6   growing shortage of housing for those with 

 7   mental illnesses and for those with developmental 

 8   disabilities who also experience behavioral 

 9   issues.  

10                Just this past Saturday I was with a 

11   number of my colleagues from both sides of the 

12   aisle from this chamber, and we heard from two 

13   more mothers, Amy and Michelle, about their 

14   personal experiences involving their children and 

15   the dramatic lack of available beds and housing.

16                In my opinion it's critical that New 

17   York State make a firm commitment to providing 

18   adequate housing and services, yet it seems to me 

19   the reso offered by the Majority is very vague.  

20   What I read simply urges OMH to reconsider the 

21   closure of any inpatient beds.  

22                I've heard from experts in the 

23   field, caregivers and families, and they've all 

24   demonstrated that we need more beds, not less.  

25   Does this budget restore and add children and 


                                                               1486

 1   adult in-patient mental health beds?

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So I have asked 

 3   different staff to come in to help, because I 

 4   thought we were changing topics.  So now I'm on 

 5   hold, Madam President, pending other staff.

 6                But just to clarify, when you talked 

 7   about people leaving prison -- that was not this 

 8   question, that was the previous question.  This 

 9   question applies more to families with children 

10   who need residential placement, am I correct?  

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:  

12   Senator Helming, do you want to ask an another 

13   question?  

14                SENATOR HELMING:   Madam President, 

15   I was waiting for you to ask me if I yield to a 

16   question from Senator Krueger.

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Oh, she's right.  

18                Will you yield to a question, 

19   Senator Helming?  

20                SENATOR HELMING:   I want to make 

21   sure to follow the rules.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

23   Understood, Senator Helming.

24                Senator Krueger, do you yield for --

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   No, I'm asking if 


                                                               1487

 1   Senator Helming will yield to me.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Oh, yes, 

 3   okay.  Senator Helming, do you yield for a 

 4   question?  

 5                SENATOR HELMING:   Yes.

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.  

 7                So if I could ask you to clarify.  

 8   In your last question, which I haven't answered, 

 9   is it about people leaving prisons who may have 

10   mental health and other issues?  Or did you shift 

11   to families with children, so more of an OCFS 

12   mental health category of question?  

13                SENATOR HELMING:   Shift.

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Shift.  Thank 

15   you.

16                SENATOR HELMING:   You're welcome.

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you, 

18   Madam President.  

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator, 

20   just to be clear, for clarification, you did not 

21   need to ask the presiding officer, you can just 

22   ask directly on a clarification during debate.

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We're all 

24   improving our knowledge of parliamentary 

25   procedure today.  Thank you.


                                                               1488

 1                And I'm still waiting for other 

 2   staff to come in so that I can give 

 3   Senator Helming a reasonable answer to her 

 4   perfectly good question. 

 5                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 7   Gianaris.

 8                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Why don't we 

 9   stand at ease for a moment while the relevant 

10   staff arrive at this point.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The Senate 

12   will stand at ease.

13                (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease 

14   at 5:17 p.m.)

15                (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at 

16   5:19 p.m.)

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The Senate 

18   will return to order.

19                Senator Krueger, you're responding 

20   to the question.

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.

22                So the answer is we did not add 

23   money, but the Governor had added some additional 

24   money for beds for residential.  We delayed or 

25   stopped the closing of four psychiatric OCFS 


                                                               1489

 1   facilities for young people, so that we don't 

 2   lose those beds and in fact there are -- there 

 3   would be more beds available in those facilities 

 4   because they all are under the count of how many 

 5   children they can have participating.

 6                SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

 7   Madam President.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 9   Senator Krueger, will you yield?  

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

12   Senator yields.

13                SENATOR HELMING:   Senator Krueger, 

14   thank you for that response.

15                I have a number of additional 

16   questions, but I've been given the hook.  

17                (Laughter.)

18                SENATOR HELMING:   It's my 

19   understanding that we're only allowed a certain 

20   amount of time, which I'd like to go on the 

21   record as saying is tremendously disappointing.  

22   We are talking about spending billions of dollars 

23   here, and the fact that we have a limited time to 

24   ask questions -- so with that, Madam President, I 

25   will thank you.  Senator Krueger, thank you for 


                                                               1490

 1   responding.  

 2                And I will be back to explain my 

 3   vote.  Thank you.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

 5   Senator Helming.

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.  I 

 7   think we should blame Senator O'Mara, personally, 

 8   don't you?  

 9                (Laughter.)

10                SENATOR HELMING:   Just the process.  

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

12   Tedisco.

13                SENATOR TEDISCO:   Thank you, 

14   Madam President.  I'd like to ask the Senator to 

15   yield for some questions.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

17   Senator Krueger, will you yield?  

18                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Yes, I 

19   will.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

21   Senator yields.

22                SENATOR TEDISCO:   Thank you, 

23   Senator.  Through my position as ranking member 

24   on the Education Committee -- and as a previous 

25   educator, I've had a little experience in the 


                                                               1491

 1   classroom -- I'd like to have my remarks relate 

 2   to the education part of our budget.

 3                I've found my job not only 

 4   challenging, but extremely rewarding.  And 

 5   probably like you and the rest of my colleagues 

 6   in this room, anytime we've talked to our 

 7   constituents or done surveys or asked them about 

 8   our educational system, they're always very 

 9   supportive because they realize that our students 

10   and our kids are our future, but a big part of 

11   that future and their success is a great 

12   education.  So that's why this part of the budget 

13   every year I think is so important.

14                I'm going to want to ask you a 

15   little bit about the funding, the Foundation 

16   funding and the general funding and the programs 

17   themselves.  With limited time -- I guess they've 

18   given me 10 minutes.  I guess they're New York 

19   minutes.  And at first I want to ask you about 

20   something you were talking about beforehand with 

21   Senator O'Mara.  And you were talking about 

22   population and keeping people in New York State.  

23                And I just want to ask you -- the 

24   first question is -- you may not know this; 

25   somebody may know this -- in 1973, do you know 


                                                               1492

 1   how many Congresspeople we had in New York State?  

 2   Because we have property taxes and they're paid 

 3   by the constituents in our population, and we get 

 4   our strength from the number of congressional 

 5   people we send out there, and our Senators, who 

 6   fight for us.  

 7                Do you have an idea of what -- the 

 8   number of congressional members we had from 

 9   New York State in 1973?  

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Okay, I can't 

11   look at these two much younger people and expect 

12   them to know.  And I'm even thinking, Madam 

13   President, I wasn't following Congress carefully 

14   enough in 1973.  

15                May I ask Senator Tedisco to let me 

16   know, because I know he knows.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

18   Tedisco.

19                SENATOR TEDISCO:   Absolutely.  So 

20   we had 39 members.

21                Would the Senator yield for another 

22   question?  

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

24   Senator Krueger, will you yield for a question?

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.


                                                               1493

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 2   Senator yields.

 3                SENATOR TEDISCO:   You certainly 

 4   know how many Congresspeople we have now.  

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I don't even know 

 6   my name today.  Tell me how many we have now.

 7                SENATOR TEDISCO:   Okay.  We have 27 

 8   now, I believe.  But it's projected -- and I'm 

 9   going to ask another question.  It's projected 

10   that we'll lose one, possibly two with the 

11   census.  So that would bring us down to 25.  That 

12   would mean we lost 14 in population.  

13                Now, there's got to be a reason why 

14   a state as large and as great as New York State, 

15   which was called the Empire State at one point -- 

16   and as these people move out, it's getting closer 

17   to The Empty State, if they continue to move like 

18   they're moving.  And, you know, our slogan is "I 

19   Love NY."  It's looking like "I Leave NY" now.  

20   Which is not a good sign.

21                Could you give me some idea of why 

22   you think we're down to this many congressional 

23   individuals?  Because you were talking about 

24   keeping people in New York State and the best way 

25   to do it is expanding the taxes and more 


                                                               1494

 1   spending.  This is a record-breaking, over 

 2   $200 million {sic} budget.  Could you tell me 

 3   what your feelings are about that?  

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So I believe that 

 5   the regional migration patterns in this country 

 6   for decades now have been away from the Northeast 

 7   and the older cities towards the South and the 

 8   Southwest.  So I don't think it's unique to 

 9   New York that there have been these migration 

10   patterns.  

11                And it has been disproportionately 

12   from the areas we call upstate New York, and not 

13   from the City or immediate suburbs, because I 

14   don't believe we have seen the people leaving in 

15   the City and Nassau County and Suffolk or even 

16   Westchester.  So it's pretty much been 

17   outmigration from Northern New York and Northwest 

18   New York and the Western Tier.

19                For some of the exact same reasons, 

20   as they've seen this pattern throughout the 

21   country in the older cities, if we don't have the 

22   jobs in the more modern economic models, then 

23   there aren't things for people to stay and do, so 

24   they go somewhere where there are jobs.  If they 

25   don't have the infrastructure for the jobs to 


                                                               1495

 1   want to be in their communities, there's a 

 2   decrease in people.  

 3                It's interesting because we know we 

 4   have some really great education, including in 

 5   our colleges throughout the state.  But you still 

 6   have to make sure that you are matching what it 

 7   is that the business community is looking for.  

 8   So I think a lot of migration patterns correlate 

 9   to changes in the economy.  That would be my 

10   general answer.

11                SENATOR TEDISCO:   Would the gentle 

12   Senator yield for another question.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

14   Senator Krueger, will you yield?  

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I will.  I'm not 

16   sure any of this is in the budget, but I'm going 

17   to give it my damnedest.  Thank you, 

18   Madam President.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

20   Senator yields.

21                SENATOR TEDISCO:   Would you be 

22   surprised, Senator, to know that we were number 

23   one in outmigration the last three years, of all 

24   the states in this nation, and we lost 

25   1.4 million over the last decade?  And when you 


                                                               1496

 1   talked about the Northeast states migrating, do 

 2   you know that 16 percent of that population last 

 3   year went to New Jersey from New York State, 

 4   moved to New Jersey?  

 5                When you said we don't have the 

 6   economy or the jobs, doesn't that mean we need an 

 7   agenda change in New York State to keep people 

 8   here?  Because the people who are leaving are the 

 9   people who can afford to leave.  Who's going to 

10   be left to pay for a $208 billion budget when the 

11   people who can afford to leave, leave?  The 

12   middle class and lower-income.  How are we going 

13   to take care of the education costs I'm going to 

14   be talking about here today, the infrastructure, 

15   healthcare, our nursing homes and our hospitals?  

16                If those who leave are the ones who 

17   can afford to leave -- because you have to pack 

18   up, you have to get a moving van -- and when 16 

19   percent are going to New Jersey, doesn't that say 

20   we have to have a little bit of a change in 

21   direction on how we tax and how we spend?  Are 

22   you saying we have to tax more and spend more to 

23   keep people here?

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So the 16 percent 

25   who went to New Jersey primarily went from the 


                                                               1497

 1   New York City area because the housing costs were 

 2   less in New Jersey and they could commute.  But 

 3   the tax costs really weren't less in New Jersey, 

 4   and we're pretty much neck and neck with them on 

 5   taxes.

 6                I guess I will ask you -- through 

 7   you, Madam President, may I ask the Senator a 

 8   question?  

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

10   Tedisco, Senator Krueger has a question.

11                SENATOR TEDISCO:   Sure.

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.  

13                So you were here and you were 

14   listening.  We're proposing meeting our needs for 

15   our communities by taxing higher-income people.  

16   Assuming you don't disagree we want more money 

17   for education, we want better healthcare, we want 

18   better infrastructure, how would you suggest we 

19   pay for them?

20                SENATOR TEDISCO:   Well, I'd start 

21   with something like $450 million for Hollywood 

22   moguls who make millions and billions of dollars 

23   and come to this state, spend a week, put a 

24   couple of people to work, and then leave and walk 

25   out of the state.  


                                                               1498

 1                And then I'd look at these Regional 

 2   Economic Development areas, which the Comptroller 

 3   says they promise us jobs, we give them billions 

 4   of dollars, they don't create the jobs, and they 

 5   walk out of the State of New York.  

 6                So I think our priorities are a 

 7   little mixed up, and we need a little bit of a 

 8   redirection on how we spend our revenue to keep 

 9   people in New York State.

10                I'd like to ask the Senator to yield 

11   once again.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

13   Senator Krueger, will you yield? 

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

16   Senator will yield.

17                SENATOR TEDISCO:   I want to ask you 

18   about Foundation Aid.  In 2018 I was sitting in 

19   this room and I was happy as a bird because I was 

20   in the Majority.  But outside in the hallways we 

21   heard a lot of noise -- it was rallying, it was 

22   protesting, and those were about full funding for 

23   Foundation Aid.  

24                I want to ask you, in comparison to 

25   the Governor's proposal, in this proposal in 


                                                               1499

 1   terms of Foundation Aid -- first of all, I 

 2   presume -- I'll ask you it anyway.  Do you 

 3   support full funding for Foundation Aid?  And is 

 4   there full funding following the formula for 

 5   Foundation Aid in this particular one-house, but 

 6   how does the funding differ between the Governor 

 7   and what you've put in for Foundation Aid?  

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So we go up 1.37 

 9   billion in Foundation Aid from where the Governor 

10   was in his proposed Executive Budget.  And we 

11   propose a three-year full phase-in to get to 

12   where we need to be in Foundation Aid.

13                SENATOR TEDISCO:   Thank you.  

14                Would the good Senator yield for 

15   another question?  

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

17   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.  

19                SENATOR TEDISCO:   So that begs this 

20   question for the Majority who said they want to 

21   fund full Foundation Aid.  In 2019, this Majority 

22   proposed 1.2 billion.  Do you know what you voted 

23   for at the end of that budget, the final budget, 

24   in Foundation Aid?  $618 million.  That's less 

25   than half than what you proposed.  You voted for 


                                                               1500

 1   that budget.

 2                Last year there was no one-house 

 3   budget.  The Governor flattened out -- no funding 

 4   increase.  You voted for that for Foundation Aid.

 5                How does a Majority that says they 

 6   want full funding for Foundation Aid, a very 

 7   necessary -- and you talked about it being 

 8   necessary -- come to a conclusion when they 

 9   debate and then negotiate, that they get half of 

10   what they've said they want in their individual 

11   budget that you're -- similar to today, 1.37.  

12                If you follow history, it will be 

13   less than half of that.  Do you think you can 

14   really get 1.37, a 7.4 percent increase?  

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So you certainly 

16   know, from your years in the majority and the 

17   minority in these two houses -- because you 

18   served in the Assembly before -- that the concept 

19   of one-house budgets are ultimately aspirational.  

20   We all ask for things we hope to get; we all lick 

21   our wounds at the end of the process because we 

22   don't get everything we were trying for.

23                SENATOR TEDISCO:   Sure.

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   But in fact the 

25   answer to your question of how do we think we can 


                                                               1501

 1   get there is by making the investments in getting 

 2   new revenues into the state that will continue 

 3   year after year to make sure that we have the 

 4   money for education.  

 5                My dear friend Senator O'Mara said 

 6   he was outraged the federal government gave us 

 7   $12 billion and he was outraged we were asking 

 8   for more revenue from wealthy New Yorkers.  Well, 

 9   I'm outraged that he thinks that way.  How do we 

10   pay for the services we need, the investments we 

11   need -- the future -- if we don't have the money 

12   to do so?  

13                So saying we're upset that we 

14   finally get some money from Washington -- who, by 

15   the way, we are still year after year after year 

16   the state that sends more money to Washington 

17   than we get back by billions of dollars.  So 

18   finally, it takes a pandemic world crisis and 

19   half a million people dying so that we finally 

20   get some of that money back from Washington?  I'm 

21   not outraged about that.  I don't think it's 

22   going to come very often, which is why we are 

23   doing what we are doing, trying to plan for the 

24   years after that with a tax base that actually 

25   adds up to the kinds of programs and services you 


                                                               1502

 1   want for your district, I want for my district.

 2                SENATOR TEDISCO:   Would the Senator 

 3   yield for a question.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 5   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 8   Senator yields.

 9                SENATOR TEDISCO:   And I liked the 

10   way you talked about it -- my district, your 

11   district, fairness and parity.  I do believe you 

12   believe in fairness and parity in our educational 

13   aid and how it's distributed across the state.

14                I would ask you this.  How do you 

15   square that fairness and parity -- and I look 

16   through the aid categories, I see there's a 

17   $12 million investment in special target aid to 

18   Yonkers.  I have high-need districts in 

19   Schenectady, in Gloversville, in Johnstown -- 

20   high-need, low-wealth districts.  How do you 

21   square that away with parity and fairness 

22   following the formula, Senator?  

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   My understanding 

24   is that we are restoring a cut that was made and 

25   has resulted in a gap for both Yonkers and 


                                                               1503

 1   Rochester.  Is that correct?  Oh, sorry, I'm 

 2   reading the text instead of the numbers.  So the 

 3   12 million is for Yonkers, you're correct.

 4                And Yonkers is a disproportionately 

 5   poor city that has been suffering from 

 6   underfunding in education now for a very long 

 7   time.

 8                SENATOR TEDISCO:   Would the 

 9   gentlewoman yield.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

11   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I will, 

13   Madam Chair from Yonkers.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

15   Senator yields.

16                SENATOR TEDISCO:   I can tell you 

17   Schenectady, Gloversville, Johnstown have been 

18   suffering from underfunding for years, Senator.

19                But let me ask you this.  Special 

20   schools in New York State, what does this budget 

21   do for special schools?

22                SENATOR KRUEGER:   There's a 

23   6.6 percent increase commensurate with the 

24   increase for other public schools.

25                SENATOR TEDISCO:   Would the Senator 


                                                               1504

 1   yield.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 3   Krueger, do you continue to yield?

 4                SENATOR TEDISCO:   That wasn't in 

 5   the Governor's budget, that's an addition you put 

 6   in?  

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, that's 

 8   correct.

 9                SENATOR TEDISCO:   I'm going to go 

10   quickly now because I know other people want to 

11   speak, so I'll just ask quickly.  Albert Shanker 

12   grant programs for gold standard teachers and a 

13   lot of other programs for teachers, you put those 

14   back into the budget.

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   They have been 

16   restored.

17                SENATOR TEDISCO:   I think that's a 

18   great thing.  I commend you for that.  I like 

19   that very much.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

21   Tedisco, are you asking Senator Krueger to 

22   continue to yield?  

23                SENATOR TEDISCO:   Yes, would you 

24   yield?

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.


                                                               1505

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 2   Krueger, do you continue to yield?

 3                The Senator yields.

 4                SENATOR TEDISCO:   The teacher 

 5   tenure thing.  Because of the pandemic last year, 

 6   they weren't able to get the two-year evaluation.  

 7   Is there anything in here for the APPR 

 8   evaluations to help out with teacher tenure?

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   No, there is 

10   nothing in the one-house budget.  But Senator 

11   Mayer just introduced a bill to address this 

12   problem.

13                SENATOR TEDISCO:   Congratulations.

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So perhaps when 

15   she's not on the podium running the Senate floor, 

16   you can chat with her about her bill.

17                SENATOR TEDISCO:   I will do it.  

18                Would the Senator yield.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

20   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

23   Senator yields.

24                SENATOR TEDISCO:   Preschool 

25   availability across, you put some money in there 


                                                               1506

 1   that the Governor didn't have for preschool ed?  

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We put full 

 3   funding for preschool into the budget.

 4                SENATOR TEDISCO:   Fantastic.  

 5   Summer enrichment programs --

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Excuse me, 

 7   Senator Tedisco, are you asking -- 

 8                SENATOR TEDISCO:   Yes, would she 

 9   yield again.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   -- the 

11   Senator to yield?

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

13                SENATOR TEDISCO:  Summer enrichment 

14   programs, how does that differ from the 

15   Executive Budget?

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Nothing here.  

17   But the 12 billion in federal money for schools 

18   can be used for that purpose.

19                SENATOR TEDISCO:   Anything -- would 

20   she yield again?  

21                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

22   Senator Krueger, will you yield?  

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.  

24                And when I just said million, I 

25   meant billion, so excuse me.


                                                               1507

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 2   Senator yields.

 3                SENATOR TEDISCO:   We know how 

 4   important broadband has become.  You've heard me 

 5   say on the floor several times about my district, 

 6   we need homing pigeons or smoke signals to get 

 7   communications.  Does this budget do anything for 

 8   broadband or web infrastructure?

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   It requires the 

10   internet providers to put aside money in a fund 

11   that will go to help ensure that every household 

12   with children has broadband access.

13                SENATOR TEDISCO:   Thank you.

14                On the resolution.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

16   Tedisco on the resolution.

17                SENATOR TEDISCO:   Senator Krueger, 

18   thank you so much for your dedication towards 

19   answering all these questions.  It's -- it must 

20   be overbearing, a tremendous challenge.  You do a 

21   great job with it, and we appreciate it very 

22   much.

23                I'm just hopeful that when we get to 

24   the end of the day, holistically this budget does 

25   what's right for our constituents, we continue to 


                                                               1508

 1   attract people to New York State, keep them in 

 2   New York State, and we spend their money wisely 

 3   and we provide the product that they wish to 

 4   have, and the product will provide enhanced 

 5   scores and graduation rates because in there is 

 6   parity and fairness across the board for all our 

 7   municipalities and our school districts.  

 8                And once again, thank you for your 

 9   consideration.  You're quite a dynamo, Senator.

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you so 

11   much, Senator.  

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

13   Senator Tedisco.

14                Senator Palumbo.

15                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

16   Madam President.  Will the chairwoman yield for 

17   quick questions.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

19   Senator Krueger, will you yield for a question?  

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'll do my best, 

21   Madam President.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

23   Senator will yield.  

24                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

25   Senator.  And I'll give a little preface to it, 


                                                               1509

 1   but it should only be maybe one or two questions 

 2   on the public protection piece.

 3                In Part O the Executive Budget 

 4   created a gun clearinghouse which indicated -- 

 5   and I'll read you the sentence while you get 

 6   acclimated:  "Whenever a state or local 

 7   enforcement agency seizes or recovers a gun that 

 8   was unlawfully possessed, recovered from a crime 

 9   scene or is reasonably believed to have been used 

10   in or associated with the commission of a crime, 

11   or is otherwise recovered by such agency as an 

12   abandoned or discarded gun, such agency shall 

13   report such seized or recovered gun to the 

14   criminal gun clearinghouse as soon as 

15   practicable."  And this clearinghouse would 

16   require that information to be shared with 

17   federal agencies, ATF, DCJS and the local agency, 

18   to track where that gun came from.  

19                Now, when I get to the one-house 

20   resolution, on page 10, Part O, the Senate 

21   rejects the proposal to strengthen 

22   information-sharing between local police, DCJS 

23   and federal databases.  

24                So Senator Krueger, my question is 

25   that that information-sharing of course could 


                                                               1510

 1   result in solving many serious crimes that have 

 2   to do with an illegal handgun.  Could you please 

 3   tell me why this Majority, in the one-house 

 4   budget, rejects the sharing of gun information 

 5   between those agencies, please.

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   One moment.  

 7                Through you, Madam President.  Oh, 

 8   hello, Madam President.  You changed on me.  New 

 9   Madam President.  

10                So it's my understanding that we 

11   pretty much rejected any policy proposal with no 

12   money or budget attachment to it because we 

13   wanted to deal with the issues separately as 

14   legislation that goes through this floor.  

15                So it was really a broader policy 

16   decision than that question.  It was we're not 

17   letting the Governor do legislation through the 

18   budget.

19                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Will the sponsor 

20   yield for one more question, then, please.  Or 

21   the chairwoman.  

22                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:    

23   Senator Krueger, will you yield?

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.  

25                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 


                                                               1511

 1   Krueger yields.   

 2                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you.  And I 

 3   appreciate that, Chairwoman.  

 4                And in that regard, though, we have 

 5   the DAs Association, when we speak of the 

 6   discovery reform that was passed last year, they 

 7   were looking for $100 million.  This budget only 

 8   has $40 million appropriated for those funds.  So 

 9   do you intend with that comment you just made to 

10   at least fully fund -- since that's already been 

11   implemented, would you provide the 

12   DAs Association with that $100 million that 

13   they're requesting so they can properly implement 

14   the discovery system that's already been signed 

15   into law last year?  

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So through you, 

17   Madam President, so that was our -- this would be 

18   our second round of funding.  We gave them 40 

19   million; we're giving them another 40 million.  

20   So there's still 20 million unresolved, under 

21   that math.  And never say never, but it's really 

22   not 40 million, it's 80 million.

23                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Very good.  Thank 

24   you.  And thank you again, Madam President.  And 

25   I hope that gets corrected in the ultimate 


                                                               1512

 1   budget.  

 2                That's all I have.  Thank you, 

 3   ma'am.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

 5   you, Senator.

 6                Senator Rath on the resolution.

 7                SENATOR RATH:   Thank you, 

 8   Madam President.  Will the Senator yield for some 

 9   questions.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:    

11   Senator Krueger, will you yield?  

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I will.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

14   Senator yields.

15                SENATOR RATH:   Thank you very much.

16                On January 11th this Senate passed 

17   broad and sweeping changes to the Election Law.  

18   On that day I shared many of my concerns about 

19   the cost and the administrative burden with my 

20   colleagues.

21                In the Aid to Localities bill, 

22   Senate Bill 2503B, there is $4 million in new 

23   funds dedicated to local Boards of Elections to 

24   address reforms passed by this body.  Can the 

25   Senator please elaborate on how this total of 


                                                               1513

 1   $4 million was calculated? 

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   As soon as I get 

 3   my expert staff here.

 4                Can you restate the question?  Staff 

 5   will hear it, and the right staff will come in.

 6                SENATOR RATH:   Yes.  I will say it 

 7   extra loud.  

 8                In the Aid to Localities bill, 

 9   Senate Bill 2503B, there is $4 million in new 

10   funds dedicated to local Boards of Elections to 

11   address the elections reforms passed by this 

12   body.  Can the Senator elaborate on how this 

13   total was calculated?

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm getting half 

15   of the answer.  You didn't think it was that 

16   complicated a question, did you?  

17                SENATOR RATH:   It seemed like a 

18   good one to me.

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   My understanding 

20   is that it will be laid out as pursuant to the 

21   populations so they'll take the 4 million and it 

22   will be distributed based on the populations of 

23   the different counties.

24                As to how we got to the number 

25   4 million, maybe the right person is showing up.


                                                               1514

 1                We estimated, based on the requests 

 2   for additional sites by the counties, and 

 3   concluded that 4 million sounded like the right 

 4   amount.  But we would only know if we get it out 

 5   there to them, get through an election or two, 

 6   and see whether they're still crying out for 

 7   more.

 8                SENATOR RATH:   Through you, 

 9   Madam President.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

11   Senator Krueger, will you yield?

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

14   Senator yields.

15                SENATOR RATH:   You foresaw my 

16   question in part, at least, which is will there 

17   be parity in the disbursal of these funds between 

18   urban and rural counties.

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   There will be 

20   parity based on population.  So, I mean, you 

21   assume that urban will have larger numbers of 

22   sites, but they maybe just have bigger sites, not 

23   more of them, I don't know.  So they're just 

24   going to take the population and be fair across 

25   the board.  


                                                               1515

 1                The sites are tied to the population 

 2   of each county, so it actually is logical.

 3                SENATOR RATH:   Through you, 

 4   Madam President.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 6   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 9   Senator yields.  

10                SENATOR RATH:   Pivoting to local 

11   governments, in Part KK of the Public Protection 

12   and General Government bill, Senate Bill 2505B, 

13   there is a measure to restrict assistance to 

14   municipalities where video lottery gaming 

15   facilities are located.  

16                Can the Senator please explain why 

17   only certain municipalities are eligible for this 

18   money.

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So we restored 

20   nearly a hundred million in Aid to Localities, 

21   between the AIM fixes and the giving them back 

22   their sales tax revenues.  And there was a sense 

23   that there was just not a lot of VLT money to 

24   take away and give to more localities.  

25                SENATOR RATH:   Through you, 


                                                               1516

 1   Madam President.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 3   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 6   Senator yields.  

 7                SENATOR RATH:   Could the Senator 

 8   please elaborate on why counties like Genesee 

 9   County and Saratoga County were excluded?  

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

11   Madam President.  It's my understanding that in 

12   the past, the Governor did approve money for 

13   those counties, and he did not include it this 

14   time.  And we felt that we did not have the 

15   ability to take more of the money and move it 

16   around.

17                SENATOR RATH:   Through you, 

18   Madam President.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

20   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

23   Senator yields.

24                SENATOR RATH:   I find it quite 

25   interesting that Genesee and Saratoga Counties 


                                                               1517

 1   were excluded, as well as Sullivan County, while 

 2   others were included.  So this is a question that 

 3   the Assembly has addressed.  And are you aware 

 4   that the Assembly fully restored all VLT money 

 5   for all host counties and municipalities?

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So speaking for 

 7   myself, no, this is new information.  I suspect 

 8   staff might know that.  So you know that they did 

 9   go that route.  

10                So yes, you're right.  So let's hope 

11   the Assembly wins that fight.

12                SENATOR RATH:   Through you, 

13   Madam President.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

15   Senator Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, certainly.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

18   Senator yields.

19                SENATOR RATH:   Thank you.

20                I would certainly hope that the 

21   Senate follows the lead of the Assembly and we 

22   all share in that advocacy.

23                Thank you.

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Are there 


                                                               1518

 1   any other Senators wishing to be heard? 

 2                Seeing and hearing none, debate is 

 3   closed.  

 4                Call the roll.

 5                (The Secretary called the roll.)

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 7   Stec to explain his vote.

 8                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

 9   Madam President.  I rise to explain my vote.

10                These are difficult times.  We've 

11   had a lot of challenges in the last year, 

12   certainly, that would justify a lot of unusual 

13   challenges, a lot of difficult choices and a lot 

14   of unusual activity in our own Senate finances.

15                However, the Senate's one-house 

16   budget bill is $15 billion above last year's 

17   budget.  The Governor's proposal was only 

18   $2 billion higher than last year's budget.  In 

19   two years -- the Senate one-house bill proposed 

20   in front of us today is $210 billion.  That's 

21   21 percent higher than what the actual budget was 

22   two years ago.

23                The Senate Finance chair a few 

24   minutes ago said that the one-house bill is 

25   aspirational.  Well, this is very real money; 


                                                               1519

 1   $210 billion is an awful lot of money.  I have a 

 2   lot of businesses that are aspiring to survive 

 3   COVID and aspiring to survive the business 

 4   climate in New York State.  I have a lot of 

 5   constituents back home that are aspiring to pay 

 6   their taxes and to put their kids through school 

 7   and to pay their mortgages.  

 8                This budget is irresponsibly high.  

 9   And there's the old adage, don't let a crisis go 

10   to waste.  We've got two crises -- we've got a 

11   Governor embroiled in two scandals and we have 

12   the COVID pandemic.  It seems to me that on the 

13   backs of these two crises, we have put forward an 

14   awful lot of aspirations that are going to be 

15   costing my constituents and our children an awful 

16   lot of money for generations to come.  

17                I will be opposed to this one-house 

18   bill.  Thank you.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

20   Stec to be recorded in the negative.  

21                Senator Hinchey to explain her vote.

22                SENATOR HINCHEY:   Thank you, 

23   Madam President.

24                This has been one of the most 

25   difficult years our state has ever faced.  It's 


                                                               1520

 1   forced us to look directly at the cracks in our 

 2   system and laid bare the systematic inequalities 

 3   that have been buried just so shallowly under the 

 4   surface of our everyday lives.  

 5                It's created a moment where we have 

 6   to take a hard look at ourselves to identify our 

 7   values and, as the Empire State, determine what 

 8   kind of leader New York should be.

 9                I ran for State Senate on the 

10   premise that we need more upstate voices at the 

11   table, fighting for our communities at the 

12   moments that matter most.  And I'm proud to say 

13   that I'm delivering on that promise.  Today's 

14   budget is the best budget for upstate New Yorkers 

15   that we've ever seen.  There are real substantive 

16   gains that even just last year were unimaginable.  

17                For example, for the first time ever 

18   the Catskills Park has its own funding line item 

19   in the EPF stewardship fund, unlocking the 

20   ability for infrastructure investment, research 

21   and stewardship.  It's the kind of investment our 

22   region has been asking for for over 20 years.  

23                We're helping our upstate 

24   communities with the first-ever commitment to 

25   real property tax relief, helping local 


                                                               1521

 1   governments fund the essential services residents 

 2   depend on, investing greatly in rural housing and 

 3   healthcare access, growing green jobs, and 

 4   pushing for education parity with fully funded 

 5   universal full-day pre-K for our upstate 

 6   children.  

 7                We're strengthening upstate 

 8   infrastructure by protecting our local roads and 

 9   bridges through increased CHIPS funding and 

10   Extreme Winter Recovery funds, closing the 

11   broadband gap once and for all by getting the 

12   accurate household-level mapping data and adding 

13   additional clean water funding so that our aging 

14   infrastructure gets the attention it deserves.

15                And we're committing to our 

16   agriculture sector by bolstering the overall ag 

17   budget and protecting farmland, funding new 

18   research and development initiatives, and 

19   creating a new line item dedicated to supporting 

20   small farms.

21                This one-house budget proposal is a 

22   win for upstate New Yorkers and one we can build 

23   off of for years to come.  And for that reason, I 

24   vote aye.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 


                                                               1522

 1   Hinchey to be recorded in the affirmative.

 2                Senator Borrello to explain his 

 3   vote.

 4                SENATOR BORRELLO:   I'm in the wrong 

 5   chair, excuse me.  

 6                Thank you, Madam President.  

 7                You know, as New Yorkers I think we 

 8   can all say that we are desperate to move on from 

 9   this pandemic.  The economic devastation, the 

10   cost in lives in New York State has been very 

11   heavy.  But if we want to move ahead, we're going 

12   to have to ensure that our economy can recover 

13   and thrive.

14                That's why I was relieved to hear 

15   that our federal government was going to provide 

16   a very generous $12.6 billion in federal aid, as 

17   well as an additional 10 billion for schools, 

18   colleges, childcare and other budget items.

19                I thought that would mean we'd no 

20   longer need a tax increase right now, which would 

21   hurt New Yorkers at an incredibly sensitive and 

22   difficult time.

23                But then we saw this budget, with 

24   $6.3 billion in new taxes, a record amount of 

25   spending, $210 billion, $15 billion more than the 


                                                               1523

 1   Executive Budget proposal. 

 2                What's that going to mean for 

 3   New Yorkers?  And I understand there's this 

 4   philosophy that it's only a small number of 

 5   people and they can pay a little bit more.  But 

 6   that's really not the reality.

 7                The companies that are leaving 

 8   New York State, the people that are leaving in 

 9   record numbers -- more so than any other state -- 

10   those are the jobs that are leaving.  Those are 

11   the families that are leaving.  They're not just 

12   the wealthiest 1 percenters.  These are people in 

13   my district, the people that -- like at Siemens 

14   Energy, 400 jobs, because they're closing, 

15   because New York is no longer a state that 

16   Siemens can do business in.  These are not 

17   billionaires or multimillionaires.  These are 

18   working-class folks trying to feed their families 

19   that can no longer do that.

20                So these taxes that we're going to 

21   increase, they're going to affect all of those 

22   folks, not just the wealthiest 1 percent.

23                We should be taking steps to reverse 

24   the trend of increasing taxes and regulations.  

25   And if there's one thing this pandemic has taught 


                                                               1524

 1   us, it's that no one needs to be any one 

 2   particular place.  We can choose to pretty much 

 3   be anywhere, working virtually, remotely, 

 4   learning remotely.  So we have to give people 

 5   reasons to remain here in New York -- the 

 6   highest-taxed state in the nation and now one of 

 7   the least safe states in the nation.  Those are 

 8   not reasons for people to remain in New York.  

 9   They're certainly not reasons to move to 

10   New York.  

11                So we can talk about the last 

12   election and how many votes we received, but the 

13   reality is people are voting with their feet and 

14   they're voting to leave New York State in record 

15   numbers.  

16                Now, there are some great things in 

17   this budget that I am happy and proud to support.  

18   But unfortunately, the way the system works here 

19   in Albany is it's one big bundle, and we have to 

20   vote up or down.  So while I am happy about some 

21   of the infrastructure funds that have been 

22   restored, the help for our farmers that 

23   desperately need it, and some other things that I 

24   think will be good, ultimately, with the largest 

25   tax increase in history, the largest spending 


                                                               1525

 1   amount ever in the history of New York State, I 

 2   have to reluctantly vote no.

 3                Thank you.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 5   Borrello to be recorded in the negative.

 6                Senator Gianaris to explain his 

 7   vote.

 8                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Thank you, 

 9   Madam President.

10                I want to explain why the vote I'm 

11   taking today is one I'm very excited about.  

12   There are many things in this resolution that I 

13   and many of my colleagues have been fighting for 

14   for a long time, and a lot of which responds very 

15   directly to some of the pain of the last year 

16   that people have felt.  So I just want to take a 

17   moment to go through some of the key elements, 

18   some of which may have been lost in the context 

19   of some bigger issues.  

20                But one that I have been pursuing 

21   for some time is a removal of the Opportunity 

22   Zone tax break in New York, an abused program 

23   that was intended to help distressed communities 

24   but in fact has been manipulated to pump money to 

25   developers who are developing overdeveloped areas 


                                                               1526

 1   already and, from what I gather, has been used to 

 2   support developments that were going to be 

 3   happening whether this tax break existed or not, 

 4   because they were already underway.  

 5                It is a horrible waste of money.  It 

 6   will save us over $60 million this year.  So that 

 7   repeal is an important one for me.  

 8                But I want to also talk about some 

 9   of the things that are in here that will help 

10   people in need who have suffered over the last 

11   year, that many of us have spoken about.  Rent 

12   relief for New Yorkers who have suffered greatly 

13   during the pandemic, lost their jobs or had 

14   massive economic loss and have been in arrears.  

15   And we're doing it in a way where the rent is 

16   going to get paid, the smaller landlords will get 

17   their money so they can continue to pay their 

18   mortgages and their bills, and it's a success 

19   story for all involved.  

20                Helping our small businesses -- a 

21   billion dollars for small business aid, 

22   $500 million in the form of grants and 

23   $500 million in the form also of rent relief for 

24   those commercial tenants who have had a very, 

25   very rough time over the last year.  We've 


                                                               1527

 1   already lost too many of them, and this will help 

 2   us save those that remain.

 3                A great amount of assistance for 

 4   people who have not been eligible for all the 

 5   federal money that's been flowing through the 

 6   country.  People that have been delivering our 

 7   food and doing our laundry and helping us 

 8   continue to live our lives during a very, very 

 9   difficult time.  When others had the privilege of 

10   being sheltered at home, they were people who 

11   were helping our communities continue to 

12   function.  This resolution will provide support 

13   for them.

14                And then a couple of things that the 

15   Governor tried to do in his proposal that we are 

16   rolling back.  Among others, we are restoring 

17   money that was proposed to be raided from the 

18   MTA.  What a horrible, horrible idea at a time 

19   when the subways and buses need more support, not 

20   less.  How are we supposed to get people back to 

21   work if the subways and buses aren't working to 

22   get them back to work?  How are people supposed 

23   to get to their doctor's appointments if there's 

24   no way to get around or if it's not functioning 

25   the way it's supposed to?  We would restore that 


                                                               1528

 1   money.  

 2                And I want to say a word about Local 

 3   Law 97 in New York City, which is a 

 4   nation-leading effort to combat climate change.  

 5   Years of effort advocates, City Councilpeople in 

 6   the city put into this to get done, and I want to 

 7   give a special recognition to my own Councilman, 

 8   Costa Constantinides, who chairs the 

 9   Environmental Committee in New York City in the 

10   Council.  They established a law that is a 

11   national model, and it was proposed in the 

12   Executive Budget to overrule that by sneaking a 

13   provision in there that would obviate what the 

14   city had done.  And this resolution would roll 

15   that back as well.

16                So there's so many things, I could 

17   go on further.  But I know I'm only explaining my 

18   vote, so I only have so much time.  But I am 

19   proud to cast a vote in the affirmative on this 

20   resolution.  It is a great piece of work, and 

21   this Majority is very proud of it.

22                Thank you, Madam President.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you.  

24   Senator Gianaris to be recorded in the 

25   affirmative.


                                                               1529

 1                Senator Jordan to explain her vote.

 2                SENATOR JORDAN:   Thank you, 

 3   Madam President.  I rise to explain my vote.  

 4                There are many things in this overly 

 5   progressive budget that cause me to vote no.  But 

 6   I will call attention to a major failing of this 

 7   one-house Senate budget, a video lottery 

 8   terminal -- also known as VLT -- host aid not 

 9   being restored for the City of Saratoga Springs 

10   and Saratoga County as was requested back in 

11   January.

12                The exclusion of this funding for my 

13   district, as well as my colleague Senator Rath's 

14   district, appears to have been driven by partisan 

15   politics, seeing that the VLT aid to host cities 

16   with Democrat Senators are receiving this aid.  

17                This all must be rectified.  Back on 

18   January 25th I raised this issue to the Majority 

19   with my colleague Senator Jim Tedisco, 

20   Assemblywoman Carrie Woerner, and Assemblywoman 

21   Mary Beth Walsh.  We made a bipartisan push 

22   seeking full restoration of the $3.1 million in 

23   host aid for Saratoga County and the City of 

24   Saratoga Springs.  

25                While just over $3 million pales in 


                                                               1530

 1   comparison overall to the State Budget's 193 

 2   billion All Funds spending, this VLT funding is 

 3   nonetheless extremely important for the City of 

 4   Saratoga Springs and Saratoga County.  Saratoga 

 5   Springs has been especially hit hard by the 

 6   COVID-19 pandemic.  Saratoga Race Course was not 

 7   allowed to have fans in attendance during last 

 8   year's meet, and that lack of fans caused serious 

 9   impacts on the city's economy as countless small 

10   businesses, restaurants, hotels that depend on a 

11   strong racing season and tourism were negatively 

12   impacted.  You can see it in our downtown.  

13                VLT host aid was created to support 

14   assumed local service needs and costs associated 

15   with hosting VLT facilities, especially public 

16   safety costs and other significant expenses 

17   incurred by local governments, like the City of 

18   Saratoga Springs and Saratoga County.  

19                A loss of this funding would 

20   devastate local finances and result in a 

21   reduction or elimination of essential local 

22   services.  Saratoga Springs is led by a 

23   Democratic mayor, and the city made a bipartisan 

24   request back in early January for a restoration 

25   of this critical VLT funding.  


                                                               1531

 1                This issue is too important to fail 

 2   prey to petty partisan politics.  Without this 

 3   aid, I will have to vote no.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 5   Jordan to be recorded in the negative.

 6                Senator Brouk to explain her vote.

 7                SENATOR BROUK:   Good afternoon, 

 8   Madam President.  I'd like to speak on, just for 

 9   a bit, the impact of this budget on our state and 

10   on my district, the 55th District near Rochester, 

11   New York.

12                Within this resolution are some 

13   incredible wins for the Rochester region.  So I 

14   want to thank my colleagues and Senate leadership 

15   for recognizing the moment we're in and rejecting 

16   the austerity mindset of the Executive Budget, 

17   which failed to meaningfully support New Yorkers 

18   in need.

19                I told my community that I would 

20   bring their voices and their needs to the table.  

21   And today, with this resolution, I'm proud to 

22   claim that the Senate has delivered more to our 

23   district than has been delivered in many, many 

24   years.

25                As a proud public school graduate, 


                                                               1532

 1   I'm thrilled that we successfully delivered 

 2   significant investment to our local schools, 

 3   especially to Rochester City School District, 

 4   which faced a dire future after years of 

 5   underfunding.  

 6                We have successfully advocated for 

 7   increases in Foundation Aid, which school 

 8   districts across the state so desperately needed.  

 9   This is the investment our state needs and is the 

10   only way forward to secure a bright future.  

11                This budget will have long-lasting, 

12   positive impacts on our communities.  The 

13   Executive Budget included an amendment that would 

14   take away local control of the Erie Canal.  The 

15   canal is an important community asset for 

16   recreation and economic development.  Local 

17   residents and elected officials urged me to fight 

18   against this takeover, and I'm proud that the 

19   Senate has rejected this amendment.

20                The one-house budget also makes a 

21   key investment in Rochester's Police 

22   Accountability Board, which has been fighting to 

23   end the cycle of police violence that has plagued 

24   our community.

25                The $1 million allocated to fund the 


                                                               1533

 1   Police Accountability Board's vital work is an 

 2   important first step in ensuring that Rochester 

 3   residents never again have to wake up to the news 

 4   that our police has killed someone in crisis 

 5   instead of supporting them, or that our police 

 6   have pepper-sprayed a mother while she holds her 

 7   3-year-old child, or that our police have 

 8   handcuffed and pepper-sprayed a 9-year-old girl 

 9   while she calls out for her father.

10                Today I'm glad that my neighbors are 

11   getting some good news instead.  The New York 

12   State Senate is making an investment in their 

13   futures.

14                There are enormous unprecedented 

15   wins that will have a lasting impact on the 

16   residents of the 55th District and across the 

17   state.  The Senate is taking strong steps in the 

18   right direction to ensure that the health, 

19   housing and educational needs of New Yorkers are 

20   met.  But there remains an urgent need to invest 

21   in working-class and middle-class New Yorkers 

22   beyond just this year.  

23                I urge my colleagues to continue 

24   pushing for sustained investment in our 

25   communities.  The New York State Legislature must 


                                                               1534

 1   think bigger, and we must include mechanisms for 

 2   sustainable revenue to set our state up for 

 3   success.

 4                I look forward to continuing this 

 5   important work with my colleagues and will be 

 6   voting aye on this resolution.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 8   Brouk to be recorded in the affirmative.

 9                Senator Martucci to explain his 

10   vote.

11                SENATOR MARTUCCI:   Thank you, 

12   Madam President.

13                I'm disappointed.  I'm disappointed 

14   because I hoped to be able to come here and 

15   support this one-house budget resolution.  I'm 

16   disappointed because there are good things in 

17   this resolution, things that I proudly support.

18                These include keeping Goshen Secure 

19   open, increased school aid, money for our local 

20   roads, help for our small businesses and, at long 

21   last, fair pay for our home-care workers.  These 

22   are all great things.  

23                The problem is that even in light of 

24   the state's recent windfall of cash -- 

25   $12.7 billion from the federal government, 


                                                               1535

 1   $10 billion for education, billions more for 

 2   local governments -- this resolution proposes 

 3   over $6 billion of new taxes, one of the largest 

 4   increases in our state's history.

 5                These new taxes hit everyone, not 

 6   just the rich, as has been advertised.  When you 

 7   add fees to broadband, charge utilities and 

 8   insurance companies more and increase the costs 

 9   to businesses, you're hitting middle-class 

10   New Yorkers.  Corporations and utilities will not 

11   just eat this increase; they'll pass this cost on 

12   to consumers, and these consumers are my 

13   constituents.

14                Our economy has suffered enough this 

15   year.  Our state has suffered from high taxes for 

16   decades.  Last year -- or this year, rather, we 

17   have more than enough money, all provided by the 

18   federal government to meet our budget needs 

19   without asking New Yorkers to pay one dime more.

20                It's not time for new taxes, new 

21   taxes are not necessary, and I'll be voting in 

22   the negative.

23                Thank you, Madam President.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

25   Martucci to be recorded in the negative.


                                                               1536

 1                Senator Brisport to explain his 

 2   vote.

 3                SENATOR BRISPORT:   Thank you, 

 4   Madam President.  And I'd like to start by 

 5   thanking you for recognizing me to speak.

 6                I'd like to thank my colleagues for 

 7   their extraordinary work and diligence in 

 8   drafting this budget.  And I'd like to thank 

 9   central staff for their work to cross every T and 

10   dot every I.  And I'd like to specifically thank 

11   our leader for bringing together a conference of 

12   43 very different individuals.  

13                Colleagues, New York has the single 

14   highest income inequality of any state in our 

15   nation.  After we pass this budget, we will 

16   remain number-one most unequal.  And while we may 

17   disagree on who to tax, what to tax, and how 

18   much, it is an objective fact that in societies 

19   with high inequality, the wealthy wield 

20   disproportionate influence on the political 

21   process.

22                In New York our Governor has wielded 

23   enormous power to normalize the idea that the 

24   wealthy should be our greatest concern.  I saw 

25   that idea echoed over the past few weeks with 


                                                               1537

 1   questions like, How will the wealthy feel about 

 2   this budget?  Will the wealthy feel piled upon?  

 3   Will the wealthy continue to stay here, or will 

 4   they leave?  Will the wealthy call us to yell at 

 5   us?  Will the wealthy stop voting for us?  

 6                Do we ask how the unhoused will feel 

 7   about this budget, the uninsured?  Do we center 

 8   the concerns of the unemployed, the incarcerated 

 9   or the undocumented?  No.  Because in a society 

10   as unequal as ours, the marginalized do not wield 

11   political power.  The wealthy do.

12                I don't blame anyone here for the 

13   way this discussion has played out.  Centering 

14   the wealthy has become the culture of Albany, a 

15   culture propagated by a Governor who is loyal to 

16   no one but his billionaire donors.  He has pushed 

17   austerity rather than equity, and it has become 

18   the norm here to ask how will the wealthy react?  

19                I'm voting aye today.  And as we 

20   move forward into negotiations with the Governor, 

21   I'm asking that we don't let him center the 

22   New Yorkers who have gotten billions of dollars 

23   richer during this pandemic.  We must remember 

24   the vast majority of New Yorkers who are still 

25   struggling during this pandemic.  We must treat 


                                                               1538

 1   our one-house budget as a floor, not as a 

 2   ceiling.  We must declare this to be the bare 

 3   minimum we will accept for our communities.  And 

 4   we must push for even more.

 5                This body has the opportunity to 

 6   usher in a new day for our state.  We must rise 

 7   to that occasion.

 8                Thank you.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you.  

10                Senator Brisport to be recorded in 

11   the affirmative.

12                Senator Helming to explain her vote.

13                SENATOR HELMING:   Thank you, 

14   Madam President.

15                In so many areas I find that this 

16   budget has misguided priorities and it falls 

17   really short, especially for everyday New Yorkers 

18   living in upstate.

19                Adding a new internet tax?  Guess 

20   what, it's not going to help us deliver expanded 

21   broadband service.

22                Individuals and families looking for 

23   housing services for loved ones with 

24   developmental disabilities, mental illnesses or 

25   behavioral concerns won't find help in this 


                                                               1539

 1   budget.  The needs of so many physically 

 2   challenged people who are enrolled in the state's 

 3   Consumer Directed Personal Attendant Program -- a 

 4   lifeline, a lifeline that keeps them out of 

 5   nursing homes and keeps them in their own homes, 

 6   living as independently as possible -- they're 

 7   not going to find help in this budget.  

 8                If this budget stands as presented 

 9   today, our veterans are going to be shortchanged.  

10   The Warrior Salute program that provides housing 

11   and counseling for homeless veterans and veterans 

12   experiencing trauma?  Cut again.

13                And no funding once again for a 

14   Veterans Memorial Cemetery.  This in a state that 

15   likes to call itself progressive.  New York State 

16   is one of only four states without a 

17   state-operated facility.  Sampson Veterans 

18   Memorial Cemetery was constructed with the intent 

19   to become a state facility.  Let's get it done.

20                We've heard talk surrounding the 

21   budget about creating a new crime related to 

22   domestic violence, and yet the budget fails to 

23   deliver on a $300,000 grant to construct a home 

24   for women and children to protect them from 

25   domestic violence.  By the way, I have to comment 


                                                               1540

 1   that that shelter was to be built in Seneca 

 2   County, Seneca Falls, the birthplace of the 

 3   women's rights movement.  There are only six 

 4   counties in this state that don't have shelters.  

 5   This shelter that was proposed and approved was 

 6   going to serve three of those.  Again, the budget 

 7   doesn't deliver.

 8                Our volunteer firefighters and rural 

 9   EMS providers will not find support in this 

10   budget.

11                Madam President, I could go on, but 

12   the bottom line is this budget will be the final 

13   nail in the coffin for so many small local 

14   businesses.  It's going to send even more 

15   individuals and families packing their bags and 

16   fleeing the state.

17                This budget proposes one of the 

18   largest tax increases in the history of our 

19   state.

20                In my opinion, this budget 

21   resolution is yet another attack on the middle 

22   class.  It's another attack on job creators, and 

23   it's going to crush anyone aspiring to achieve 

24   the American dream.

25                For these reasons and others, I am 


                                                               1541

 1   voting no on the budget resolution before us.

 2                Thank you.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 4   Senator Helming to be recorded in the negative.

 5                Senator Reichlin-Melnick to explain 

 6   his vote.

 7                SENATOR REICHLIN-MELNICK:   Thank 

 8   you, Madam President.  

 9                When I ran for office last year, I 

10   talked a lot -- and my constituents and the 

11   voters responded -- about making New York a state 

12   that works for everyone, not just the wealthy and 

13   the well-connected.  This budget would go a long 

14   way towards making that goal a reality.

15                It's a historic investment in our 

16   state, in our public education systems, in our 

17   healthcare systems, our roads, our mass transit, 

18   in services for seniors, services for veterans, 

19   assistance to our local governments and, 

20   importantly, property tax relief for middle-class 

21   families in the 38th District and around New York 

22   State.

23                This budget restores over 

24   $1.3 billion and adds that to the Foundation Aid 

25   formula that funds our local schools.  In the 


                                                               1542

 1   38th Senate District, which I represent, 

 2   $37 million coming into schools.  It increases 

 3   Foundation Aid by requiring a minimum of 

 4   60 percent due under the formula, and that would 

 5   bring over 85 million into schools in the 

 6   38th District in Rockland and Westchester.

 7                We are restoring the income tax cuts 

 8   that the Governor proposed to delay:  

 9   $394 million in income tax relief for the middle 

10   class in this state.  And property tax relief, 

11   creating a new $400 million circuit breaker for 

12   property taxpayers paying over 6 percent of their 

13   income towards their property taxes.  

14                This will benefit thousands of 

15   residents in my district and tens of thousands 

16   and millions of residents throughout New York 

17   State.  It's investments like these that show why 

18   we are making New York a better place for people 

19   to live, work and do business.

20                We have to support this budget.  I 

21   am proud to support it.  Thank you.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

23   Reichlin-Melnick in the affirmative.

24                Senator Biaggi to explain her vote.

25                SENATOR BIAGGI:   Thank you, 


                                                               1543

 1   Madam President.  I rise today in support of the 

 2   proposed one-house budget.  

 3                The greatest crisis that New York 

 4   State faces right now is mass destitution.  The 

 5   Bronx, in the district that I currently 

 6   represent, has the highest unemployment rate in 

 7   the state, at 15 percent.  Families currently are 

 8   facing severe food insecurity and many, many, 

 9   many fear losing their homes.  Members of our 

10   immigrant communities have not seen a dime in 

11   government relief.

12                The need is massive, and equity and 

13   justice must be our guiding principles.  The 

14   one-house budget resolution takes meaningful 

15   steps to meet the moment we are in and to provide 

16   assistance to our most vulnerable communities.  

17   The changes that are proposed to the personal 

18   income tax, the capital gains tax, and the 

19   corporate franchise tax in particular will 

20   generate significant revenue to fund education, 

21   rent and mortgage relief, small business relief 

22   and so much more.

23                Notably, the Senate proposal 

24   increases education funding to $5.7 billion, 

25   including a $1.37 billion increase in 


                                                               1544

 1   Foundation Aid, and commits to fully phasing in 

 2   Foundation Aid over the next three years.

 3                The funding acknowledges the 

 4   challenges our public schools endured over the 

 5   last year and the resources that they desperately 

 6   need and are waiting for.  Additionally, the 

 7   one-house budget funds the Excluded Workers Fund 

 8   with $2.1 billion to help those who faced 

 9   unemployment during the pandemic but who have 

10   been ineligible for unemployment assistance.  

11                And while this is a step in the 

12   right direction, we must fully fund our excluded 

13   workers for $3.5 billion.

14                The resolution also invests 

15   $200 million in housing vouchers, invests 

16   millions in supplemental rent aid, and it 

17   restores all the cuts to Medicaid, which is 

18   incredibly significant to me because, 

19   representing the Bronx, which has been the 

20   epicenter of COVID-19 not only for the state but 

21   for the country, it is a place that cannot afford 

22   to have any more cuts made to its medical system.

23                The resolution also proposes many 

24   commonsense updates to outdated tax codes, and 

25   these slight adjustments will be the adjustments 


                                                               1545

 1   that we will be able to make to ask the very 

 2   wealthiest amongst us to play their role and to 

 3   provide aid and resources to working families 

 4   across the state, as one New York.

 5                There is a lot more that we can do, 

 6   and this is a moment for us and for New York 

 7   State to be able to rebuild our future in a way 

 8   that works not only for the few, but for the 

 9   many.  I am very committed to supporting our 

10   communities and taking care of all New Yorkers, 

11   and I am looking forward, looking forward to 

12   making transformational and creative and 

13   sustainable revenue raisers and changes that 

14   leave nothing on the table.

15                I believe the proposed one-house 

16   budget leads us in this direction, and I look 

17   forward to the end of our budget negotiations.

18                Thank you very much, 

19   Madam President.  I vote aye.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

21   Biaggi to be recorded in the affirmative.

22                Senator Liu to explain his vote.

23                SENATOR LIU:   Thank you, 

24   Madam President.  

25                I am going to vote yes on the budget 


                                                               1546

 1   resolution before the Senate today.  This 

 2   resolution puts forth a correct path into the 

 3   future for New York.  We're getting through a 

 4   very, very difficult crisis and period, but 

 5   nonetheless we have to lay the foundation for our 

 6   future.  

 7                And part of laying that foundation 

 8   is fulfilling a promise -- in fact, a mandate 

 9   that we should have -- that the State of New York 

10   should have fulfilled over a dozen years ago.  

11   And that is to provide the resources, the funding 

12   so that all of the schoolchildren in New York 

13   State could get a sound, basic education.  That 

14   concept of Foundation Aid to our public schools 

15   has never been fully fulfilled.

16                Today, in this budget resolution, we 

17   finally put our state on a firm path towards 

18   fulfilling that entire mandate, by phasing in the 

19   entire $4 billion per year that is still owed 

20   over the next three years.  The plan will provide 

21   the funding in order to fully phase this, as we 

22   promised.

23                In addition to the Foundation Aid 

24   for our public schools, we're not forgetting 

25   higher education, which is just as important as K 


                                                               1547

 1   or pre-K to 12 education.  Our SUNY system, our 

 2   CUNY system, our public institutions of learning, 

 3   they have been starved for too long.  Their 

 4   reliance on student tuition has continued to 

 5   increase over the last couple of decades.  We 

 6   must start to reverse this.  And this budget 

 7   provides the greatest increase to our public 

 8   universities that we have seen in a very long 

 9   time.

10                We are asking some New Yorkers to 

11   pay more, no doubt.  These New Yorkers, though, 

12   make over a million dollars a year.  Or, if it's 

13   a couple, make over $2 million a year.  These tax 

14   increases will affect less than 1 percent of the 

15   taxpayers of our great state.

16                And in many cases, as has been 

17   recently documented, they are more than willing 

18   and understand the need for this.  Many of these 

19   high-income earners have not been adversely 

20   affected by COVID, unlike many of our front-line 

21   workers who make far less than that threshold.

22                And along the way, we're also 

23   providing some relief for middle-class and even 

24   upper-middle-class taxpayers in the form of some 

25   property tax relief, property tax being far more 


                                                               1548

 1   regressive than income tax.

 2                So, Madam President, I'm proud to 

 3   vote yes on our Senate budget resolution, and I 

 4   look forward to holding the line and keeping this 

 5   intact as we approach the deadline for the final 

 6   budget on April 1st.

 7                Thank you.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 9   Liu to be recorded in the affirmative.

10                Senator Mayer to explain her vote.

11                SENATOR MAYER:   Thank you, 

12   Madam President.

13                Today we stand and push forward, 

14   particularly in the area of education, as my 

15   colleagues have said.  We have put a stake in the 

16   ground that we are committed to fully fund 

17   Foundation Aid and, beginning this year, will 

18   finish the three-year project to ensure that 

19   every district gets what they deserve and what 

20   they are owed under the law and under the 

21   Constitution.

22                I'm so pleased that we are adding 

23   substantial money for schools throughout the 

24   state -- urban, rural and suburban.  Every 

25   district has suffered through COVID.  Children, 


                                                               1549

 1   parents, communities, schools have faced this 

 2   crisis head-on and have had incredibly difficult 

 3   times.  We need to help them through.

 4                And through this budget, we are 

 5   using state money to do what the state is obliged 

 6   to do.  And we are using federal money to 

 7   supplement, not supplant, the state's obligation 

 8   to these children and to our districts.

 9                I'm very, very proud that we've made 

10   such a clear commitment to every child, 

11   regardless of zip code, to every district, 

12   regardless of whether it is represented by a 

13   Democrat or a Republican.  Our commitment is to 

14   the children of this state, and this one-house 

15   resolution really makes our commitment so clear.

16                I want to also say that the 

17   broadband access in this bill, based on a bill 

18   that I sponsored to ensure that every child has 

19   free access to broadband while they have remote 

20   learning, is an important step to a statewide 

21   solution to a statewide problem.  We no longer 

22   can have piecemeal approaches to dealing with a 

23   problem that affects every single district.  We 

24   must have a solution that every child in every 

25   community gets access to broadband while we 


                                                               1550

 1   require learning at home.

 2                So I couldn't be more pleased that 

 3   this one-house resolution sets us in the 

 4   direction of making clear not only our 

 5   aspirations, as our chair said, but also our 

 6   commitment to the children, to the districts, to 

 7   the parents of New York.  We are going to fight 

 8   for you, we are going to deliver for you, and 

 9   today we are voting for you.

10                I vote aye.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

12   Mayer to be recorded in the affirmative.

13                Senator Harckham to explain his 

14   vote.

15                SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Thank you, 

16   Madam President.

17                First I want to thank our Majority 

18   Leader, Senator Andrea Stewart-Cousins, for 

19   leading such a collaborative process where we end 

20   up in a space creating a budget that, as Senator 

21   Mayer just mentioned, addresses the people all 

22   over this state -- upstate, downstate, urban, 

23   rural, suburban.

24                I want to thank Senator Krueger 

25   for her work as chair of the Finance Committee as 


                                                               1551

 1   we sorted through all the numbers, and certainly 

 2   Senator Mayer for her work leading the education 

 3   table and the excellent result that we have 

 4   before us today on education.

 5                This is a bill that invests in the 

 6   people of New York State, and it invests in the 

 7   people of the Hudson Valley.  And it starts with 

 8   restoring the cuts to the Dwyer program.  The 

 9   Joseph P. Dwyer program is a veterans 

10   peer-to-peer program based around suicide 

11   prevention, but also helps with depression, the 

12   opioid crisis, homelessness.  This is a vital 

13   program in our district.  I'm proud to say that 

14   we've restored it.

15                To our small businesses who have 

16   been hurt so hard by this pandemic, more than 

17   $500 million in grant money and -- one of my 

18   bills -- a $100 million grant fund directed 

19   toward businesses that we've asked to stay closed 

20   during the pandemic to keep all of us healthy.  

21   Another $500 million in commercial rent relief 

22   for small businesses, who have fallen behind.  

23   Just as we're helping our tenants with their 

24   arrears, we need to help our small businesses 

25   with their arrears.  


                                                               1552

 1                And while we're asking the 

 2   wealthiest New Yorkers to pay more of their fair 

 3   share, we're holding the line and keeping this 

 4   year's round of middle-class tax cuts in the 

 5   budget.  That was vital.

 6                And for the first time, a property 

 7   tax circuit breaker, something that's been talked 

 8   about for years and years in Albany.  For the 

 9   first time, we've got it in, a $450 million 

10   saving for property taxpayers right there.

11                And lower interest rates for 

12   homeowners who are in arrears on their tax 

13   payments, gone from the usurious 18 percent down 

14   to a much more manageable 7.5.  

15                And as we've just heard from Senator 

16   Liu and Senator Mayer, record investments in 

17   education, including universal pre-K for the 

18   first time throughout New York State.

19                These are investments that we need 

20   to help with economy rebound and to create the 

21   educated workforce we need to attract world-class 

22   companies to come back to New York as we grow in 

23   the future.

24                So I'm very proud of this resolution 

25   and proud to vote aye.  Thank you, 


                                                               1553

 1   Madam President.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 3   Harckham to be recorded in the affirmative.

 4                Senator Lanza to explain his vote.

 5                SENATOR LANZA:   Thank you, 

 6   Madam President.  Madam President, to explain my 

 7   vote.

 8                First I want to thank 

 9   Senator Krueger, Senator O'Mara for their 

10   exchange.  I think it was extremely informative, 

11   and I really respect and am grateful for the hard 

12   work that they both put into this budget.

13                You know, as was pointed out, 

14   there's a lot here that is good for the State of 

15   New York.  I particularly support the investment 

16   in education.  I don't think you can ever go 

17   wrong investing in education, and I think the 

18   spending there makes a lot of sense.  I agree 

19   with Senator Liu.  

20                I wish there was a little more 

21   money, Madam President, for the developmental 

22   disability population in New York.  I don't think 

23   that we ever meet our obligation and 

24   responsibility with respect to that very 

25   vulnerable population.


                                                               1554

 1                But Madam President, I want to 

 2   explain the reasons why I can't support this 

 3   resolution.

 4                You know, for a year the people of 

 5   the State of New York were told about this budget 

 6   hole, this deficit, and how severe and how dire 

 7   the circumstances were here in New York.  And we 

 8   all wondered what was going to happen.  I don't 

 9   think anybody really imagined that the solution 

10   to that tremendous budget deficit was to spend 

11   billions and billions and billions of dollars 

12   more.  But here we are, and that's what this 

13   budget does.

14                You know, there was a conversation 

15   on the floor here -- what it would mean, why are 

16   people leaving New York, why aren't we attracting 

17   people and businesses in the way that we used to.  

18   We can have long conversations about that.  But 

19   the fact of the matter, Madam President, is you 

20   have to look within.  The fact of the matter is 

21   that New Yorkers are leaving, by the millions.  

22                You know, if it were a business, if 

23   you had a bakery and people decided not to shop 

24   at your bakery but rather to go across the state 

25   to another bakery, any good business, any entity 


                                                               1555

 1   that wanted to survive would look into the 

 2   reasons why that's happening.  

 3                I would propose to you, 

 4   Madam President, that the reason is budgets like 

 5   this.  

 6                You know, Senator Krueger pointed 

 7   out that there are people that are willing to 

 8   spend more.  And I would agree with that, that 

 9   this is only a 3 percent increase on the upper 

10   earners in the State of New York.  But you know 

11   the old adage, Madam President, the straw that 

12   broke the camel's back.  These are folks that are 

13   already paying most of the way here in New York.  

14   And I would agree that people would spend more.  

15   But people want something in return.  

16                And the fact of the matter is -- I 

17   say this with great sadness -- we're not getting 

18   more here in New York.  We're getting less.  You 

19   know, crime is on the rise.  I look at my beloved 

20   City of New York; it's dirtier than ever, we have 

21   more homelessness in New York.  Things don't seem 

22   to be going in the right direction in spite of 

23   the increased spending year over year.  

24                I heard talk about austerity 

25   budgets.  Madam President, I must have missed 


                                                               1556

 1   them.  And I've been here a number of years, even 

 2   when Republicans were in the Majority here in 

 3   this chamber.  You know, I don't ever remember 

 4   there being an austerity budget.  Every single 

 5   year we spend more and more and more and more, 

 6   and things do not seem to be getting better.  

 7                You know, this pitting one group of 

 8   New Yorkers against another to say, Hey, we're 

 9   going to raise taxes by billions of dollars here, 

10   but don't worry, you're not going to pay it.  

11   That's the game that's always played.  People are 

12   fooled into believing don't worry, we're not 

13   coming for you.  It's for someone else.

14                I reject that.  We have got to stop 

15   pitting each other against each other.  You know, 

16   people said, Some people are leaving.  And I know 

17   people say, Good riddance.  You know, it's not my 

18   friend that's leaving.  I don't like you because 

19   you make a lot of money.  Or:  It's not me that's 

20   leaving, it's not my family member that's 

21   leaving.  

22                I don't want anybody to leave, 

23   Madam President.  You know, we want to keep the 

24   job creators and the job seekers.  It's a 

25   marriage.  We need each other.  And I promise 


                                                               1557

 1   you, people make choices.  You say they're not 

 2   going to leave; what happens when you're wrong?  

 3                People -- if you can buy a house for 

 4   a million dollars or a house for $100,000, and 

 5   the house for $100,000 offers more -- people say 

 6   people aren't leaving.  I live in the 

 7   southernmost point of New York State, 

 8   Madam President, Staten Island.  It's like the 

 9   last stop.  And people are flying through.

10                And they report back from places 

11   around the country.  And you know what they say?  

12   They say:  We pay less, and we get more.  It's 

13   not a good formula for the future of New York.  

14                There's talk that only 1 percent are 

15   going to pay.  That's nonsense.  We're all going 

16   to pay.  If you increase the tax on the business 

17   owner who makes the bread, the person who buys 

18   the loaf of bread is going to have to pay more.  

19                And that's what this budget does.  

20   And that's why I can't support it.  And I know 

21   there's a lot of good work here and there are a 

22   lot of good aspects to this budget.  But 

23   increasing billions of dollars at this moment is 

24   the absolute worst thing we could be doing.  

25                Madam President, unfortunately I'm 


                                                               1558

 1   going to be voting in the negative.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 3   Lanza to be recorded in the negative.

 4                Senator Krueger to explain her vote.

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you, 

 6   Madam President, to explain my vote.

 7                So people might think she already 

 8   spent three hours on the floor here explaining 

 9   her vote.  You know, I was listening to everyone, 

10   and I was thinking about the big picture.  So 

11   this is my 19th year in the New York State 

12   Senate, and I come into this chamber and I am 

13   always taken by the beauty of it and the history 

14   of this building and the history of this state.  

15                And what is it about New York?  It's 

16   about great leaders who think boldly about the 

17   future and are willing to say it's not working, 

18   we got off-kilter somewhere, we have to reboot, 

19   using 21st-century language.

20                And I've been waiting for a reboot, 

21   I think, all 19 years that I've been here, and 

22   we've had some great successes just in the last 

23   couple of years.  But I listen to my colleagues 

24   from the other side of the aisle saying why we 

25   can't do this.  But then they list out all the 


                                                               1559

 1   programs and services that their communities need 

 2   and how frustrated they are that they can't get 

 3   them taken care of.

 4                And I understand that because I 

 5   think everyone here has that feeling about the 

 6   community they represent.  But when they're asked 

 7   to imagine that you would have an adequately 

 8   funded state budget so that you could cover the 

 9   costs of these services and programs, and not be 

10   which part of the baby are we saving, which part 

11   of the baby are we not saving this year.

12                If you imagine that we could 

13   actually have a state that made the true level of 

14   investment in its own people, in its own 

15   infrastructure, in its own future, you can see a 

16   different state for everybody.  

17                And some people have talked so 

18   articulately about the injustice of the inequity 

19   of income in the state.  And it's more real here 

20   than anywhere, and this whole country is being 

21   asked to confront that question.  And I hope 

22   Washington does soon.  But we're here in 

23   New York, and we need to take responsibility for 

24   our future and our people.  

25                And I have no question -- people 


                                                               1560

 1   keep saying, You just can't keep taxing people.  

 2   Well, that's true.  And some people's proposals 

 3   went so much farther than what we've done today, 

 4   and we didn't do that.  But when I hear my 

 5   colleagues say the taxes are going to fall on 

 6   everyone, don't forget, I think, ah, every person 

 7   in American politics is taught never raise a tax, 

 8   it will be the undoing of you.

 9                It's not true.  It's never actually 

10   been true.  But if you're underfunding the 

11   fundamentals of your society, first off, you're 

12   paying a lot more for all the problems that are 

13   created when you underfund what needs to be 

14   funded, so don't have the illusion you're saving 

15   money by not investing.

16                And second, you're supposed to lead 

17   because you asked people to vote for you and you 

18   asked people to give you the power to make really 

19   tough decisions like what our tax rates are going 

20   to be and what the laws are and how long we might 

21   have to go to jail for.

22                And I'm telling you that this state, 

23   if it's going to have the great future that it 

24   used to talk about having in the past, has to 

25   wake up and think it through differently.  


                                                               1561

 1                So I know people are scared about 

 2   calling for a significant raise in taxes.  But 

 3   again, it's on the wealthiest New Yorkers.  And 

 4   it's not a punishment, it's a cry for help:  

 5   You've done great, you're doing great, we need 

 6   your help because we want everybody to do well.  

 7   And if you invest in us, we're going to be there 

 8   and be the state you want us to be, and that's 

 9   why you're going to stay.

10                And for all the many people who know 

11   history better than me and have typed into me now 

12   that when Senator Tedisco earlier said they're 

13   all fleeing New York, they're pointing out 

14   actually we had a million more people today than 

15   we did in 1970.  So they didn't all flee.  We 

16   have a growing population.  There's other reasons 

17   that other states have more Congresspeople.  

18                So they didn't flee.  And we do not 

19   want them to flee.  And we have more millionaires 

20   now than ever before also, and billionaires, 

21   actually.  And what we're asking of them is not 

22   so unreasonable and is not going to mean that my 

23   district is emptied the day we vote for this bill 

24   in real -- because today's a one-house budget 

25   bill.  And I hope that more of them will come out 


                                                               1562

 1   and speak and say, You know, Liz, you're right.  

 2                I mean, I'll tell you one 

 3   constituent said to me:  You expect me to 

 4   complain if you raise my taxes?  I live in the 

 5   greatest city of the world in the greatest 

 6   country of the world, and I'm rich.  I have no 

 7   right to complain.  And I was like, Hmm, I wish 

 8   all my constituents were like that.

 9                But that's really what we're saying.  

10   You know, some of you are doing fabulously even 

11   in a pandemic economic-crash period.  But we all 

12   need a little help being pulled up.  And when you 

13   pull us all up, it's better for everyone.  

14                So I proudly vote yes, 

15   Madam President.  Thank you.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:    

17   Senator Krueger to be recorded in the 

18   affirmative.

19                Leader Stewart-Cousins to explain 

20   her vote.

21                SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS:   Thank you 

22   so much, Ms. President.  

23                And I just want to thank our 

24   incredible Finance chair, Senator Liz Krueger, 

25   especially for, you know, what you've done with 


                                                               1563

 1   leading the long but important budget hearings, 

 2   and of course what happened today.  Thank you, 

 3   Senator Krueger, for always being that voice 

 4   that, you know, speaks the truth.

 5                And I also want to thank my deputy 

 6   leader, Mike Gianaris, for managing today's 

 7   discussion and debate.  And of course to the 

 8   Presidents who also managed today's proceedings.

 9                I want thank my counsel and Finance 

10   staff and the staff on the other side for the 

11   hard work that we do, especially during this 

12   time.  It does not go unnoticed.

13                And I want to give a special 

14   shout-out to my chief of staff, Shontell Smith, 

15   as well as our Finance Secretary, Dave Friedfel, 

16   Communications Director Mike Murphy, and Director 

17   of External Affairs Loren Amor, for all the hard 

18   work.

19                And of course I want to thank the 

20   amazing members of this Democratic Majority 

21   Conference who put so much effort during this 

22   budget process -- often up late, on weekends, and 

23   everyone's input that helped us shape these 

24   priorities.

25                I'm grateful to be in this chamber 


                                                               1564

 1   today to speak on our one-house budget resolution 

 2   and talk about some of the things that we're 

 3   advancing here.

 4                Last year there were no budget 

 5   resolutions as we confronted what would become 

 6   the early moments of the COVID-19 pandemic.  

 7   There has been so much taken by this virus since 

 8   that time.  Over 48,000 New Yorkers have lost 

 9   their lives, with countless loved ones left 

10   behind.  New Yorkers have lost their livelihoods, 

11   businesses that they built from the ground up 

12   unable to survive.  Students have had precious 

13   moments to learn, grow and thrive -- have lost so 

14   much in this school year.

15                The toll this past year has had on 

16   front-line essential workers and their families 

17   is immeasurable, and our debt to them frankly is 

18   unpayable.  

19                But because of who we are as people 

20   and the resiliency of so many, we're standing 

21   here today with greater knowledge, hope and 

22   opportunity.

23                I think we all understand that this 

24   pandemic exposed so many inequities and 

25   deficiencies that existed long before it ravaged 


                                                               1565

 1   our nation and our state.  This budget resolution 

 2   is a step towards addressing those inequities.  

 3   We're laying out a path that will lead New York 

 4   State through this pandemic and beyond.  

 5                The proposals in this resolution put 

 6   forth fairness, fiscal responsibility, and smart 

 7   investments to ensure economic stability and the 

 8   delivery of services so many of our neighbors 

 9   depend on.  This resolution is also a testament 

10   to our commitment to establishing fiscal equity 

11   and investing in our state's long-term success.

12                As we take this first important step 

13   in this challenging budget process, I want to 

14   recognize that we are truly fortunate that the 

15   new Democratic Congress delivered on President 

16   Biden's promise to provide critical funding 

17   through the American Rescue Plan that will help 

18   the economy, families, schools and small 

19   businesses across New York State.

20                So thank you, President Biden and 

21   Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, Speaker 

22   Nancy Pelosi, and those from the New York State 

23   Congressional delegation who showed moral 

24   leadership in supporting this needed recovery.

25                I've been clear in stating that 


                                                               1566

 1   while federal support has been desperately 

 2   needed, we as a state must also take bold action 

 3   to equitably raise the needed revenue to address 

 4   our challenges from before, during, and after 

 5   this pandemic.  That's why we're asking 

 6   New Yorkers who make over a million dollars 

 7   annually to help our state.  

 8                Our proposals also ensure that 

 9   wealthy corporations, many who have seen their 

10   profits only increase during this pandemic, pay a 

11   fairer share in taxes.

12                Let me be clear.  Despite what our 

13   colleagues across the aisle may mischaracterize, 

14   if you are a New Yorker who does not make 

15   millions and billions of dollars, this does not 

16   impact you.

17                And what this new revenue will do is 

18   help fund crucial services such as public 

19   education, infrastructure, assistance for 

20   small businesses, and tax relief for middle-class 

21   New Yorkers.  In fact, this resolution provides 

22   relief for working- and middle-class taxpayers, 

23   creating a personal income tax credit to reduce 

24   the net cost of property taxes for overburdened 

25   middle-class homeowners that will reduce property 


                                                               1567

 1   taxes by approximately $400 million annually.  

 2                And this resolution strongly rejects 

 3   any delay in the implementation of the ongoing 

 4   middle-class tax cut for one year, which will 

 5   save taxpayers 394 million this year.

 6                As we work to rebuild our economy, 

 7   we must support small businesses who have 

 8   suffered throughout this pandemic.  That's why 

 9   we're calling for investing over $1 billion in 

10   New York's small businesses:  $500 million for 

11   small businesses assistance grants, $500 million 

12   for commercial rent relief.  That's 500 million 

13   for small businesses assistance grants and 

14   500 million for commercial rent relief.

15                Women and Black and Brown 

16   New Yorkers have faced disproportionate hardship 

17   during this pandemic and must not be left behind.  

18   That's why we're proposing adding an additional 

19   $1.3 billion for the Minority and Women Owned 

20   Business Development and Lending Program.  

21                It's been proven that the arts are 

22   an economic driver from Broadway and the bright 

23   lights of New York City to theaters and cultural 

24   institutions on Main Streets in communities 

25   across New York State.  That's why, as we reopen 


                                                               1568

 1   our economy, our resolution proposes investing an 

 2   additional $100 million in New York State Council 

 3   on the Arts grants for nonprofit cultural 

 4   organizations.

 5                In 2019 we passed the strongest 

 6   housing and tenant protections in the history of 

 7   New York State.  However, the pandemic has 

 8   further exposed how close people are from having 

 9   a roof over their head to being homeless.  Too 

10   often the difference is just one single paycheck.

11                This budget resolution includes an 

12   unprecedented $750 million for the New York City 

13   Housing Authority, $200 million for public 

14   housing authorities across the New York State, 

15   adding $200 million for homeowner assistance, 

16   creating the Housing Access Voucher Program to 

17   provide a cash subsidy to eligible low-income 

18   individuals and families that are homeless or 

19   facing imminent loss of housing, and providing 

20   $400 million for additional rental assistance in 

21   addition to the available federal funds.

22                With federal funding we propose the 

23   creation of a COVID-19 Emergency Rental 

24   Assistance Program to provide rent arrears 

25   vouchers to landlords on behalf of tenants 


                                                               1569

 1   experiencing financial hardship due directly or 

 2   indirectly to the COVID-19 pandemic.

 3                New York students and educators have 

 4   navigated tough times, adapting to remote 

 5   learning and safely reopening our schools.  The 

 6   Senate Majority is moving forward with a 

 7   transformational increase in state and federal 

 8   resources, ensuring that students receive a 

 9   high-quality education and teachers can ensure no 

10   one is left behind and that they are adequately 

11   supported.  

12                This includes providing a total 

13   school aid increase of $5.7 billion, including a 

14   $1.37 billion Foundation Aid increase, and 

15   $3.85 billion in federal Coronavirus Response and 

16   Relief Supplemental Appropriations Act -- called 

17   CRRSAA -- funding.

18                We are proposing $3.5 billion more 

19   school aid than the Executive's proposal, and 

20   utilizing federal aid to supplement, not 

21   supplant, the state's education funding.  

22   State-funded school aid would increase to a total 

23   of $29.5 billion.

24                A commitment to a three-year 

25   phase-in in Foundation Aid to ensure that all 


                                                               1570

 1   districts receive full Foundation Aid by the 

 2   2023-'24 school year, and including $500 million 

 3   to fully fund 4-year-old full-day pre-K 

 4   statewide.

 5                We continue to make New York State a 

 6   national leader in environment and conservation 

 7   efforts and put forth historic action to 

 8   authorize $3 billion for the Environmental Bond 

 9   Act of 2021, Clean Water, Green Jobs, Green 

10   New York, to fund environmental improvements that 

11   preserve, enhance and restore New York's natural 

12   resources and reduce the impact of climate 

13   change.  

14                The pandemic highlighted gaps in our 

15   healthcare system, and the Senate Majority is 

16   committed to ensuring that New Yorkers receive 

17   quality and affordable healthcare.  Which is why 

18   this resolution opposes cuts to Medicaid and 

19   critical health services, restoring 

20   $180.5 million in Medicaid cuts to hospitals, 

21   $74 million in long-term care, $60 million to 

22   mainstream managed care, and millions more to 

23   various other Medicaid-supported programs.

24                Additionally, we propose 

25   $624 million to increase the minimum wage for the 


                                                               1571

 1   lowest-paid home healthcare workers, who have not 

 2   seen raises in years and have kept working 

 3   through the pandemic, on the front lines, at 

 4   great personal risk.  

 5                Our proposal also includes 

 6   $40 million in hazard pay for front-line workers 

 7   in SUNY hospitals.  

 8                So many hardworking people in 

 9   New York have faced economic hardships and 

10   challenges in employment opportunities during 

11   this pandemic.  That's why we're proposing a new 

12   Excluded Worker Fund to provide unemployment 

13   benefits to workers who lost their jobs during 

14   COVID-19 but were ineligible for unemployment 

15   insurance.

16                This pandemic has highlighted the 

17   importance of the services nonprofits across the 

18   state provide, which is why we added $50 million 

19   for various nonprofit health, human services, 

20   labor and veterans organizations.  

21                The Senate Majority understands that 

22   our partners in local governments are also facing 

23   many challenges as a result of this pandemic, and 

24   they deserve adequate funding and support.  To 

25   support them, our resolution includes restoring 


                                                               1572

 1   $39 million of aid and incentives for the AIM 

 2   funding, and adding $59 million of AIM funding to 

 3   fund the repeal of the county share of AIM 

 4   payments.  

 5                Along with local governments, we 

 6   have shared responsibility to having 

 7   infrastructure worthy of the 21st century.  

 8   That's why we're investing $568 million to 

 9   restore statewide mass transportation operating 

10   assistance cuts and to provide $385 million in 

11   additional statewide mass transportation 

12   operating assistance.  And $150 million to be 

13   added to the base amount for the CHIPS program, 

14   the Consolidated Local Street and Highway 

15   Improvement Program.  

16                So New York has a robust and 

17   expansive agricultural industry, and it's crucial 

18   to our economy.  And so we must support our 

19   farmers.  And that's why we propose restoring 

20   $7.3 million for statewide agricultural programs.  

21                In this resolution we continue our 

22   commitment to improving New York's justice system 

23   and making communities more safe.  That includes 

24   a new investment of $100 million for the Jails 

25   and Prisons Assistance Program to fund 


                                                               1573

 1   alternative therapeutic and rehabilitative 

 2   programs related to segregated confinement and 

 3   medication assisted treatment reforms.  

 4                We further commit $6 million in new 

 5   funding for upstate civil or criminal legal 

 6   services, including legal services for survivors 

 7   of domestic violence, and veterans, and dedicate 

 8   at least $10 million from the Victims of Crime 

 9   Act funding to establish a statewide hospital and 

10   community-based gun violence prevention program.

11                And as part of our continued efforts 

12   to empower voters and prevent their 

13   disenfranchisement, we fund the Independent 

14   Redistricting Commission with $4 million and 

15   another $4 million to reimburse local Boards of 

16   Election for the expansion of early voting 

17   initiatives.

18                In closing, many of you have heard 

19   me speak of tearing down barriers and creating 

20   opportunities.  This pandemic has certainly 

21   called upon us to do so, and I know that we are 

22   up for the challenge that this process will bring 

23   us.  This virus, as I said earlier, has exposed 

24   so many inequities and so many deficiencies.  We 

25   must look for ways to not only recover but also 


                                                               1574

 1   build back our great state even stronger.  

 2                In the coming weeks the Senate 

 3   Majority will continue to work with our partners 

 4   in government to pass a timely, balanced and 

 5   ethical budget that will continue to lead us 

 6   forward and create brighter days ahead.

 7                Madam President, I vote aye.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Leader 

 9   Stewart-Cousins to be recorded in the 

10   affirmative.

11                Announce the results.

12                THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

13   Senate Resolution 504, those Senators voting in 

14   the negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, 

15   Boyle, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Jordan, Lanza, 

16   Martucci, Mattera, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, 

17   Palumbo, Rath, Ritchie, Serino, Stec, Tedisco and 

18   Weik.

19                Ayes, 43.  Nays, 20.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

21   resolution is adopted.

22                Senator Liu.

23                SENATOR LIU:   Is there any further 

24   business at the desk?

25                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   There is 


                                                               1575

 1   no further business at the desk.

 2                SENATOR LIU:   I move to adjourn 

 3   until Tuesday, March 16th, at 3:00 p.m.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   On 

 5   motion, the Senate stands adjourned until 

 6   Tuesday, March 16th, at 3:00 p.m.

 7                (Whereupon, at 6:55 p.m., the Senate 

 8   adjourned.)

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