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Wednesday, March 31, 2021

3:36 PMRegular SessionALBANY, NEW YORK
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                                                               2097

 1                NEW YORK STATE SENATE

 2                          

 3                          

 4               THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

 5                          

 6                          

 7                          

 8                          

 9                  ALBANY, NEW YORK

10                   March 31, 2021

11                      3:36 p.m.

12                          

13                          

14                   REGULAR SESSION

15  

16  

17  

18  SENATOR BRIAN A. BENJAMIN, Acting President

19  ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary

20  

21  

22  

23  

24  

25  


                                                               2098

 1                P R O C E E D I N G S

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 3   Senate will come to order.  

 4                I ask everyone present to please 

 5   rise and recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

 6                (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 

 7   the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   In the 

 9   absence of clergy, let us bow our heads in a 

10   moment of silent reflection or prayer.

11                (Whereupon, the assemblage respected 

12   a moment of silence.)

13                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Reading 

14   of the Journal.

15                THE SECRETARY:   In Senate, Tuesday, 

16   March 30, 2021, the Senate met pursuant to 

17   adjournment.  The Journal of Monday, March 29, 

18   2021, was read and approved.  On motion, Senate 

19   adjourned.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Without 

21   objection, the Journal stands approved as read.

22                Presentation of petitions.

23                Messages from the Assembly.

24                Messages from the Governor.

25                Reports of standing committees.


                                                               2099

 1                Reports of select committees.

 2                Communications and reports from 

 3   state officers.

 4                Motions and resolutions.  

 5                Senator Gianaris.

 6                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, I 

 7   move to adopt the Resolution Calendar.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   All in 

 9   favor of adopting the Resolution Calendar please 

10   signify by saying aye.

11                (Response of "Aye.")

12                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   

13   Opposed, nay.  

14                (No response.)

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

16   Resolution Calendar is adopted.

17                Senator Gianaris.  

18                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Can we now take 

19   up the calendar.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

21   Secretary will read.  

22                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

23   452, Senate Print 70, by Senator Hoylman, an act 

24   to amend the Executive Law.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 


                                                               2100

 1   the last section.

 2                THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

 3   act shall take effect on the 90th day after it 

 4   shall have become a law.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

 6   the roll.

 7                (The Secretary called the roll.)

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 9   Hoylman to explain his vote.

10                SENATOR HOYLMAN:   Thank you, 

11   Mr. President.

12                This Monday, right before noon, a 

13   woman of Filipino descent, an immigrant, was 

14   walking through the streets of Hell's Kitchen.  

15   As she walked down 43rd Street, just a block from 

16   Times Square, in my district, a man kicked her in 

17   the stomach.  She fell to the ground and was then 

18   repeatedly, brutally kicked in the head while her 

19   assailant yelled expletives and told her "You 

20   don't belong here."

21                This wasn't a crime without a 

22   witness.  Security footage of the assault showed 

23   three men watching from the lobby of a nearby 

24   luxury building.  As the woman struggled to stand 

25   up, one of the men closed the front door to the 


                                                               2101

 1   building.  

 2                This morning the NYPD charged her 

 3   alleged assailant with felony assault as a hate 

 4   crime.

 5                I'm thankful that her alleged 

 6   attacker has been charged, Mr. President, and I'm 

 7   hopeful that justice is going to be served.  But 

 8   I'm alarmed that even as New York City has seen a 

 9   surge in reported hate crimes against 

10   Asian-Americans, this is the first assault -- 

11   this is the first assault on an Asian-American to 

12   be charged as a hate crime this year.

13                This isn't happening in a vacuum.  

14   The Asian-American Bar Association recently 

15   published a report showing that hate crimes 

16   against Asian-Americans in New York City have 

17   risen by 900 percent compared to last year.  Our 

18   city, New York, has seen the largest increase in 

19   reported hate crimes among any large American 

20   city.

21                This is unacceptable.  It's a 

22   failure of our criminal justice system.  And it's 

23   wrong.  

24                We cannot fight back against this 

25   wave of hatred and violence if we don't have the 


                                                               2102

 1   data and information to understand the scope of 

 2   the problem and the tools to fight it.  That's 

 3   why we need this bill, Mr. President, the Hate 

 4   Crimes Analysis and Review Act.  

 5                We need to pull back the curtain on 

 6   hate crimes and better understand who's 

 7   committing them and who's being targeted by them.  

 8   This act is going to require the New York State 

 9   Division of Criminal Justice Services to maintain 

10   and make public statistical data about hate 

11   crimes while expanding the data points 

12   law enforcement is required to report.

13                This act is also going to require 

14   DCJS to issue an annual stand-alone report and 

15   statistical analysis of hate crimes based on this 

16   data, codifying the agency's current practice.  

17                But let's be clear.  The impact of 

18   the legislation isn't going to be just felt in 

19   the AAPI community.  Today, coincidentally, we 

20   commemorate the International Transgender Day of 

21   Visibility.  But even as we celebrate the 

22   resilience of that community, we're also living 

23   through a moment when trans people, particularly 

24   Black trans women, are being murdered at record 

25   rates.  


                                                               2103

 1                In 2020, the number of trans people 

 2   murdered nationally surpassed the number of trans 

 3   people murdered in 2019, in just seven months.  

 4   In 2019 the number of hate crimes targeting LGBTQ 

 5   people rose 20 percent over 2018 in New York 

 6   City, only surpassed by the terrifying 55 percent 

 7   increase in hate crimes targeting our city's 

 8   Jewish community.

 9                We're facing a crisis in our city 

10   and state.  We need to understand the full scope 

11   of the crisis if we are to contain it.  This act 

12   is a positive step in doing that and bringing 

13   justice to communities that badly need it.

14                I'd like to thank Senate Majority 

15   Leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins for bringing this 

16   legislation to the floor for a vote, 

17   Assemblymember Karines Reyes and Dick Gottfried 

18   for their work on the companion legislation, and 

19   to my colleagues for their support.

20                I vote aye, Mr. President.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

22   Hoylman to be recorded in the affirmative.

23                Announce the results.

24                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 63.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 


                                                               2104

 1   bill is passed.

 2                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 3   526, Senate Print 2929A, by Senator Parker, an 

 4   act in relation to designating Kings County as a 

 5   cease and desist zone.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

 7   the last section.

 8                THE SECRETARY:   Section 4.  This 

 9   act shall take effect immediately.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

11   the roll.

12                (The Secretary called the roll.)

13                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

14   Senator Parker to explain his vote.

15                SENATOR PARKER:   Thank you, 

16   Mr. President.

17                I rise to vote aye on this bill 

18   that's been very important for my community and 

19   really, I think, the beginning of a conversation 

20   that needs to happen statewide.

21                We have a housing crisis.  Even in 

22   the midst of a pandemic, the housing crisis has 

23   been, you know, really palpable, particularly in 

24   places like Brooklyn, you know, the state's 

25   largest county and really the country's 


                                                               2105

 1   third-largest city if it stood alone.  

 2                And we have a problem particularly 

 3   in the context of housing around aggressive 

 4   solicitation.  And what this bill attempts to do 

 5   is address the issue of aggressive real estate 

 6   solicitation.  And really this aggressive 

 7   solicitation has become a main tool that has, you 

 8   know, created a perfect storm of gentrification, 

 9   flipping homes for high profit, third-party 

10   transfers, deed theft, and some other 

11   unscrupulous activity that's done by the real 

12   estate industry.  

13                It creates instability in our 

14   communities, particularly for long-standing 

15   residents.  And it's also -- these aggressive 

16   pitches and this pressure on reluctant 

17   homeowners, you know, really puts a real strain 

18   economically on the community.  Because once 

19   these folks leave their homes, they then -- it 

20   becomes hard for them to find other places to 

21   live.

22                And in particular, the targets have 

23   been our senior citizens, have been a lot of 

24   people in Black and Latino communities and 

25   low-income communities generally, where 


                                                               2106

 1   oftentimes almost everything they own may be 

 2   wrapped up in this piece of real estate.

 3                And so bad real estate actors have 

 4   targeted New York City's most vulnerable 

 5   residents -- seniors, New Yorkers who are facing 

 6   foreclosure, and residents also who have limited 

 7   English proficiency.  

 8                We must protect New Yorkers.  That's 

 9   our job here.  And so I pass this bill and ask my 

10   colleagues to vote for it, and I hope that this 

11   begins a process by which, you know, the most 

12   vulnerable who are homeowners in our community 

13   find some relief.  

14                Thank you, Mr. President.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

16   Senator Parker to be recorded in the affirmative.

17                Announce the results.

18                THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

19   Calendar 526, those Senators voting in the 

20   negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Boyle, 

21   Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Hinchey, Jordan, 

22   Kaplan, Lanza, Martucci, Mattera, Oberacker, 

23   O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rath, Reichlin-Melnick, 

24   Ritchie, Serino, Skoufis, Stec, Tedisco and Weik.

25                Ayes, 39.  Nays, 24.


                                                               2107

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 2   bill is passed.

 3                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 4   546, Senate Print 4935, by Senator Rivera, an act 

 5   to amend the Public Health Law.

 6                SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Lay it 

 8   aside.

 9                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

10   573, Senate Print 3579, by Senator Breslin, an 

11   act to amend the Insurance Law.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

13   the last section.

14                THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

15   act shall take effect immediately.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

17   the roll.

18                (The Secretary called the roll.)

19                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

20   Announce the results.

21                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 63.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

23   bill is passed.

24                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

25   586, Senate Print 4251, by Senator Skoufis, an 


                                                               2108

 1   act to amend Chapter 435 of the Laws of 2014.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

 3   the last section.

 4                THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 5   act shall take effect immediately.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

 7   the roll.

 8                (The Secretary called the roll.)

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

10   Announce the results.

11                THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

12   Calendar 586, voting in the negative:  

13   Senator Brisport.

14                Ayes, 62.  Nays, 1.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

16   bill is passed.

17                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

18   614, Senate Print 28, by Senator Kaplan, an act 

19   to amend the State Administrative Procedure Act.

20                SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Lay it 

22   aside.  

23                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

24   628, Senate Print 954, by Senator Gaughran, an 

25   act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.


                                                               2109

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

 2   the last section.

 3                THE SECRETARY:   Section 4.  This 

 4   act shall take effect on the 180th day after it 

 5   shall have become a law.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

 7   the roll.

 8                (The Secretary called the roll.)

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

10   Announce the results.

11                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 63.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

13   bill is passed.

14                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

15   635, Senate Print 4074, by Senator Hinchey, an 

16   act to amend the Highway Law.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

18   the last section.

19                THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

20   act shall take effect immediately.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

22   the roll.

23                (The Secretary called the roll.)

24                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

25   Announce the results.


                                                               2110

 1                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 63.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 3   bill is passed.

 4                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 5   636, Senate Print 4450, by Senator Stavisky, an 

 6   act to amend the Vehicle and Traffic Law.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

 8   the last section.

 9                THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

10   act shall take effect on the first of April.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

12   the roll.

13                (The Secretary called the roll.)

14                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

15   Announce the results.

16                THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

17   Calendar 636, those Senators voting in the 

18   negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Boyle, 

19   Helming, Jordan, Martucci, Oberacker, O'Mara, 

20   Ortt, Palumbo, Rath and Weik.

21                Ayes, 51.  Nays, 12.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

23   bill is passed.

24                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

25   637, Senate Print 4651, by Senator Kaminsky, an 


                                                               2111

 1   act to amend the Highway Law.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Read 

 3   the last section.

 4                THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

 5   act shall take effect immediately.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

 7   the roll.

 8                (The Secretary called the roll.)

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

10   Senator Kaminsky to explain his vote.

11                SENATOR KAMINSKY:   Thank you very 

12   much, Mr. President.

13                I rise today under unfortunate 

14   circumstances to honor the memory of Pete Sobol, 

15   who was taken from us far too early in his life 

16   very suddenly last month.  Pete Sobol was a son 

17   of the Five Towns, particularly of Inwood, and he 

18   seemed to carry the community on his shoulders.  

19   No one put more of his time, dedication and 

20   strength into preserving a community, even as it 

21   changed around him.

22                After Hurricane Sandy, he helped 

23   turn the Five Towns Community Center into a 

24   Red Cross hub.  When COVID hit, he was able to 

25   demand testing and turn the Five Towns Community 


                                                               2112

 1   Center, which he loved and he served as president 

 2   of their board for many years, into a testing 

 3   center.  

 4                When the community had a decision to 

 5   make about what it was going to do and whether it 

 6   was going to embrace, in the true spirit of 

 7   America, a new class of immigrants who had come 

 8   into the community recently, Pete was their 

 9   champion, making sure that no one was left 

10   behind, that everyone had the services they 

11   needed, got the education they deserved.  He 

12   would give the shirt off his back if he could.  

13                And one very quick story illustrates 

14   why Pete Sobol, you know, was the spirit of the 

15   community.  One day driving over a bridge, my 

16   wife and I saw a man in the middle of the highway 

17   on one of the malls, a piece of grass, with a 

18   weed whacker and a big jug of water.  He decided 

19   that the highway wasn't looking right, and 

20   instead of waiting or writing to someone else -- 

21   I guess, like me -- or petitioning someone or 

22   complaining, he went and mowed the lawn in the 

23   middle of the highway.  He went and started 

24   trimming the hedges.  He went and started 

25   watering the flowers.  


                                                               2113

 1                Next weekend you'd see him out there 

 2   on his hands and his knees, beautifying the 

 3   place, because he believed that a community is 

 4   what you make of it.  And he welcomed everyone, 

 5   no matter their background, no matter their 

 6   status, to join him in that endeavor.  And that's 

 7   why Pete Sobol was a special person.  

 8                It was sad to lose him, and we're 

 9   going to be naming a bridge that enters the very 

10   community he loved the Pete Sobol Memorial 

11   Highway.  And it's the least we could do to honor 

12   the memory of a great man.  

13                I vote aye.  Thank you, 

14   Mr. President.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

16   Kaminsky to be recorded in the affirmative.

17                Announce the results.

18                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 63.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

20   bill is passed.

21                Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

22   reading of today's calendar.

23                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Let's go to the 

24   controversial calendar, please.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 


                                                               2114

 1   Secretary will ring the bell.

 2                The Secretary will read.

 3                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 4   546, Senate Print 4935, by Senator Rivera, an act 

 5   to amend the Public Health Law.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 7   Lanza, why do you rise?

 8                SENATOR LANZA:   Mr. President, I 

 9   believe there's an amendment at the desk.  I 

10   waive the reading of that amendment and ask that 

11   Senator Rath be recognized and heard.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Thank 

13   you, Senator Lanza.  

14                Upon review of the amendment, in 

15   accordance with Rule 6, Section 4B, I rule it 

16   nongermane and out of order at this time.

17                SENATOR LANZA:   Accordingly, 

18   Mr. President, I appeal the ruling of the chair 

19   and ask that Senator Rath be recognized.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

21   appeal has been made and recognized, and 

22   Senator Rath may be heard.

23                SENATOR RATH:   Mr. President, I 

24   rise to appeal the ruling of the chair.  

25                The proposed amendment is germane to 


                                                               2115

 1   the bill at hand because the bill at hand deals 

 2   specifically with Public Health Law.  For more 

 3   than a year now, the Governor has issued numerous 

 4   executive orders amending, suspending and 

 5   terminating provisions of the Public Health Law.

 6                Almost daily now it seems more 

 7   questions surrounding the Governor and his 

 8   actions are coming to light.  From the sexual 

 9   harassment allegations, to nursing home deaths, 

10   to COVID-19 testing prioritization for our 

11   families, to equitable vaccine distribution, the 

12   list goes on and on.

13                Despite the numerous investigations 

14   into the Governor and his administration, the 

15   public continues to receive no clarity and no 

16   answers on any of these issues.  All the while, 

17   the Governor still maintains arbitrary control of 

18   our great state.

19                After the Majority told residents 

20   they took action to reassert our legislative 

21   authority, restaurants, small businesses and 

22   families continue to struggle and try to 

23   understand and navigate the dozens of executive 

24   orders still in place.

25                This Majority said they would look 


                                                               2116

 1   at the Governor's orders and even encouraged us 

 2   to bring to the floor resolutions to roll back 

 3   specific orders, yet they refuse to allow these 

 4   resolutions to be brought up for consideration.

 5                The only thing that is clear is that 

 6   the status quo remains, and the Governor is still 

 7   running the state via executive order.

 8                As I have said many times now, this 

 9   is doing a huge disservice to the residents of 

10   New York State.  Millions of New Yorkers are left 

11   without their voice being heard because the 

12   Majority and the Governor want to maintain their 

13   control.

14                New Yorkers need to be able to trust 

15   their government, and what is happening here is 

16   destroying what little trust is left.  Therefore, 

17   I strenuously appeal the ruling of the chair and 

18   urge my colleagues to give this amendment the 

19   thoughtful consideration it deserves.

20                Thank you, Mr. President.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Thank 

22   you, Senator Rath.

23                I want to remind the house that the 

24   vote is on the procedures of the house and the 

25   ruling of the chair.


                                                               2117

 1                Those in favor of overruling the 

 2   chair signify by saying aye.

 3                SENATOR LANZA:   Request a show of 

 4   hands.

 5                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

 6   let's record each member of the Minority in the 

 7   affirmative without a showing of hands.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Without 

 9   objection, so ordered.  

10                Announce the results.

11                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 20.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

13   ruling of the chair stands, and the bill-in-chief 

14   is before the house.

15                Are there any other Senators wishing 

16   to be heard?

17                Seeing and hearing none, debate is 

18   closed.  The Secretary will ring the bell.

19                Read the last section.

20                THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

21   act shall take effect immediately.  

22                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

23   the roll.

24                (The Secretary called the roll.)

25                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    


                                                               2118

 1   Announce the results.

 2                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 63.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 4   bill is passed.

 5                The Secretary will read.

 6                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 7   614, Senate Print 28, by Senator Kaplan, an act 

 8   to amend the State Administrative Procedure Act.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

10   Lanza, why do you rise?

11                SENATOR LANZA:   Mr. President, I 

12   believe there's an amendment at the desk.  I 

13   waive the reading of that amendment and ask that 

14   Senator Tedisco be recognized and heard.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Thank 

16   you, Senator Lanza.  

17                Upon review of the amendment, in 

18   accordance with Rule 6, Section 4B, I rule it 

19   nongermane and out of order at this time.

20                SENATOR LANZA:   Accordingly, 

21   Mr. President, I appeal the ruling of the chair 

22   and ask that Senator Tedisco be recognized.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

24   appeal has been made and recognized, and 

25   Senator Tedisco may be heard.


                                                               2119

 1                SENATOR TEDISCO:   Thank you, 

 2   Senator Lanza.  And thank you, Mr. President.

 3                Mr. President and my colleagues, 

 4   this amendment is definitely germane because it 

 5   relates directly to small businesses being 

 6   effective in coming back when we open the 

 7   economy.  And that relates to this amendment, 

 8   because the important part about that is not only 

 9   making them successful, but to bringing those 

10   individuals back who are jobless right now and on 

11   that security program we put in place called 

12   unemployment.

13                Mr. President and my colleagues, I 

14   don't think there's a word, of course, or a 

15   series of words or a sentence or a paragraph or 

16   even a book that can be written about the impact 

17   of this horrendous pandemic and the tragedy it 

18   has wrought on the constituents and the citizens 

19   not only of this state, the 19.5 million people, 

20   but this nation and our world.

21                And we understand that, probably, 

22   and know that, just as well as our family members 

23   in our Senate and our Assembly districts on the 

24   other side of this building.  Because I believe 

25   if we look at it, as we've advocated in the past 


                                                               2120

 1   and in the present for all my fellow Senators 

 2   here, I would say there was a hundred percent or 

 3   more increase in our advocacy on the calls we've 

 4   gotten related to what we could do to help our 

 5   constituents in every segment of society across 

 6   this state and our Senate districts.  

 7                The individuals, the families, those 

 8   who were separated from their loved ones with the 

 9   nursing home issue, the nursing home numbers, 

10   looking at the situation on the second floor on 

11   the decision on March 25th that our Governor made 

12   which led to one of the worst tragedies in the 

13   history of New York State, a tragedy within this 

14   holistic tragedy of what's happened not only with 

15   the health and safety and well-being, the loss of 

16   life, but it's an economic tragedy also for the 

17   individuals who are jobless right now.

18                And we've worked with those 

19   families, those individuals.  We've worked on the 

20   PPEs of our first responders, who have done a 

21   great job.  But also we've tried to work with our 

22   small, medium and large businesses, all 

23   businesses.  Because when businesses are back and 

24   we open our economy, well, the jobs hopefully 

25   will start to come back.  


                                                               2121

 1                But for some, the light at the end 

 2   of that tunnel is very dim.  And I would venture 

 3   to say -- and I think my office, my staff, the 

 4   work we've done and I think the other Senators 

 5   with the work they've done, and this unemployment 

 6   system, which was a complete disaster.  Crashed 

 7   over and over and over again.  We got calls every 

 8   single day during the past year.  We're still 

 9   getting calls that individuals who have been 

10   jobless for not days and weeks, but for months, 

11   can't get into the system.  Big bureaucracy.  We 

12   had to intervene.  

13                And I'm proud to say we did 

14   intervene.  We got individuals into the system 

15   and then we had to get the checks out of the 

16   system because the system was crashing so much.

17                These are individuals, the totality, 

18   4 million individuals on unemployment over the 

19   course of this past year with this pandemic.  

20   Four million individuals.  Don't see much of a 

21   light at the end of the tunnel for their economic 

22   well-being.  They don't know if they're going to 

23   be able to put food on the table.  They don't 

24   know if they're going to be able to pay their 

25   rent.  They don't know if they're going to be 


                                                               2122

 1   able to pay their mortgage and keep their house.  

 2   They don't know if they're going to be able to 

 3   pay their kid's tuition to keep them in school, 

 4   which is so important, that education.  They 

 5   don't know if they're going to be able to keep 

 6   their cars.  

 7                In fact, many have called and said, 

 8   I sold my house, I had to.  Couldn't pay the 

 9   mortgage.  They took my car, I couldn't pay the 

10   car bill.  Medical bills having problems with.  

11                And the individuals who are impacted 

12   the most within this unemployment system, even 

13   when they've got that bridge and that lifeline 

14   going, are the individuals that know they can't 

15   go back to their previous job.  Because guess 

16   what?  The business and the company they've 

17   worked for didn't make it.  They went belly up.  

18   They don't exist anymore.  That job doesn't 

19   exist.  They've got to find a new job.  

20                Some, when we open it up fully, will 

21   be able to go back.  They'll be helped out.  

22   They'll find something into the future to help 

23   them.  

24                Well, the federal government has 

25   done something about this for the unemployed, and 


                                                               2123

 1   that's what this amendment is all about.  Well, 

 2   they've done two things.  First of all, they 

 3   extended the deadline for New Yorkers to pay 

 4   their taxes.  It is now May 17th.  And that's a 

 5   good thing, because these people who are really 

 6   reaching and trying to rustle up the money to pay 

 7   their taxes, that's important for them.

 8                But they've done something else, 

 9   Republicans and Democrats, bipartisan, at the 

10   federal government.  They've said don't giveth 

11   and then taketh away.  Don't give me a benefit 

12   and say it's a lifeline, unemployment assistance, 

13   a bridge to a better place with the economy so I 

14   can pay those bills and get into the job market.  

15                We're going to give you a $10,200 

16   break on your first $10,200.  The federal 

17   government has passed that, that's in place.  

18   They not only passed an extension of when we pay 

19   our taxes, but they're going to give those people 

20   who are most downtrodden now, don't see any light 

21   in that tunnel, that break.  

22                It makes sense, and we should be 

23   doing that in New York State.  And I'm shocked 

24   that the Majority has not brought out a bill 

25   here, that the Governor has not done his 


                                                               2124

 1   executive order -- because he's still got control 

 2   of 60 of them right now -- or the other side of 

 3   the aisle hasn't done that.  

 4                You've taxed the rich by $7 billion.  

 5   But these aren't the rich.  These are the people 

 6   who are most challenged economically, and you 

 7   haven't done a thing yet.

 8                Now, we can do something right now.  

 9   We can do something with this amendment.  Because 

10   this amendment, I believe like the federal one, 

11   is bipartisan.  This is Senator Felder's bill, 

12   one of your Democratic colleagues.  And it's got 

13   Republican and it's got Democratic members on it.  

14                Because you know what?  I never ask 

15   and I don't believe any of my Democratic 

16   colleagues ask or my Republican colleagues ask -- 

17   Can you help me with advocacy for my 

18   unemployment, get me in the system, get me -- 

19   I've never asked, and I don't believe you've ever 

20   asked, are you a Democrat, are you a Republican, 

21   are you independent, what -- we don't care about 

22   that.  Because we represent everybody.  And we 

23   should represent everybody.

24                This is an amendment which embodies 

25   a bill, Senator Felder's bill -- I give him 


                                                               2125

 1   credit for that -- but I'm a sponsor of the bill, 

 2   several of my colleagues are, your colleagues are 

 3   sponsors of the bill, to do not taxing the rich, 

 4   you're letting those who are downtrodden be 

 5   taxed.  You giveth and you taketh away.  Let's 

 6   not do that.  That sends a terrible message.

 7                Mr. President, you can stand up 

 8   today there and this Majority can stand up and 

 9   today and say, We're not going to turn our back 

10   on you.  We're not going to give you some money 

11   and say, This is a bridge to a better place for 

12   you, but we're going to take it away and actually 

13   tax the money for those who don't have a job to 

14   go back to right now.  It makes no sense 

15   whatsoever.

16                Now, we can do two things here, 

17   Mr. President.  You can either say, yeah, bring 

18   this bill to the floor, it's germane.  Let's 

19   Republicans and Democrats together vote for this 

20   amendment which embodies a bipartisan bill to 

21   bring some assistance to those who don't know 

22   what their economic future is.  And we can pass 

23   this here, send it to the Senate {sic} and pass 

24   it, let the Governor sign it and say, We had your 

25   back.  Which we should, for those people who 


                                                               2126

 1   don't have a job and don't know if they're going 

 2   to be able to put food on the table.

 3                Or you can do something else, 

 4   Mr. President, which I hope you don't do:  Use 

 5   the word "procedure."  If you use the word 

 6   "procedure," you and this Majority I believe are 

 7   turning your backs not on Republicans and 

 8   Democrats, but everybody who we represent in the 

 9   state, the 4 million people who don't know where 

10   their economy is going right now.

11                So I hope you don't do that.  I hope 

12   you say, We're going to change that, we're going 

13   to stop this stress, we're going to stop the 

14   anxiety to a certain extent, we're going to make 

15   sure that we got your back.  

16                Mr. President, please have the back 

17   of everybody that we represent in New York State.  

18   Make this germane.  Because they're going to 

19   know, once you use that word "procedure," you're 

20   just going like this {turning back} to the people 

21   we represent.  And I don't think that's good for 

22   Republicans or Democrats or anybody who 

23   represents anybody at any level.

24                Mr. President, I ask you to accept 

25   the appeal and make this germane and let us vote 


                                                               2127

 1   on it.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Thank 

 3   you, Senator Tedisco.

 4                I want to remind the house that the 

 5   vote is on the procedures of the house and the 

 6   ruling of the chair. 

 7                Those in favor of overruling the 

 8   chair signify by saying aye.

 9                SENATOR LANZA:   Request a show of 

10   hands.

11                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

12   we've agreed that each member of the Minority 

13   will be recorded in the affirmative without a 

14   showing of hands.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Without 

16   objection, so ordered.

17                Announce the results.  

18                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 20.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

20   ruling of the chair stands, and the bill-in-chief 

21   is before the house.

22                Are there any other Senators wishing 

23   to be heard?

24                Seeing and hearing none, debate is 

25   closed.  The Secretary will ring the bell.


                                                               2128

 1                Read the last section.

 2                THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 3   act shall take effect immediately.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

 5   the roll.

 6                (The Secretary called the roll.)

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

 8   Martucci to explain his vote.

 9                SENATOR MARTUCCI:   Thank you, 

10   Mr. President.

11                As we all know, right now 

12   businesses are suffering.  And it was hard enough 

13   to do business here in the State of New York 

14   before the pandemic.  And now with COVID, these 

15   challenges have just been magnified.  

16                I want to start by thanking my 

17   colleague Senator Kaplan for bringing this bill 

18   to the floor today.

19                As a small business owner, I know 

20   firsthand just how costly, difficult and 

21   time-consuming it can be to even find or 

22   understand the complex and seemingly endless web 

23   of regulations that govern our small businesses 

24   here in New York.

25                This bill requires state agencies 


                                                               2129

 1   make these regulations easily available online.  

 2   This will save our small businesses time, it will 

 3   save them money, and most importantly it will 

 4   allow them to focus on what they do best, which 

 5   is create jobs.

 6                Mr. President, I'm proud to 

 7   cosponsor this bill.  Once again, I thank my 

 8   colleague Senator Kaplan for bringing this bill 

 9   to the floor, and I'm proud to vote yes today.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

11   Martucci to be recorded in the affirmative.

12                Announce the results.

13                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 63.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

15   bill is passed.

16                Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

17   reading of the controversial calendar.

18                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

19   there will be an immediate meeting of the 

20   Finance Committee in Room 332.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   There 

22   will be an immediate meeting of the Finance 

23   Committee in Room 332.

24                SENATOR GIANARIS:   The Senate will 

25   stand at ease.


                                                               2130

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 2   Senate will stand at ease.

 3                (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease 

 4   at 4:05 p.m.)

 5                (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at 

 6   9:20 p.m.)

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 8   Senate will return to order.

 9                Senator Gianaris.

10                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

11   there's a report of the Finance Committee at the 

12   desk.  Please take that up.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

14   Secretary will read.

15                THE SECRETARY:   Senator Krueger, 

16   from the Committee on Finance, reports the 

17   following bill:  

18                Senate Print 2502B, Senate Budget 

19   Bill, an act making appropriations for the legal 

20   requirements of the state debt service.

21                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to accept 

22   the report of the Finance Committee.  

23                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   All 

24   those in favor of accepting the report of the 

25   Finance Committee signify by saying aye.


                                                               2131

 1                (Response of "Aye.")

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   

 3   Opposed, nay.  

 4                (No response.)

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 6   Finance Committee report is accepted.  

 7                Senator Gianaris.  

 8                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Please take up 

 9   the supplemental calendar.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

11   Secretary will read.

12                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

13   644, Senate Print 2502B, Senate Budget Bill, an 

14   act making appropriations for the legal 

15   requirements of the state debt service and lease 

16   purchase payments.

17                SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

18                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

19   before that bill is laid aside, I believe there's 

20   a message of necessity at the desk?  

21                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   There 

22   is a message of necessity at the desk.

23                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to accept 

24   the message of necessity.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   All in 


                                                               2132

 1   favor of accepting the message of necessity 

 2   signify by saying aye.

 3                (Response of "Aye.")

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

 5   Opposed?  

 6                (Response of "Nay.")

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 8   message is accepted, and the bill is before the 

 9   house.

10                SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Lay it 

12   aside.

13                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Can we please 

14   take up the controversial calendar.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

16   Secretary will ring the bell.

17                The Secretary will read.

18                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

19   644, Senate Print 2502B, Senate Budget Bill, an 

20   act making appropriations for the legal 

21   requirements of the state debt service and lease 

22   purchase payments.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

24   O'Mara.

25                SENATOR O'MARA:   Yes, 


                                                               2133

 1   Mr. President, if Senator Krueger would yield for 

 2   a few questions on this budget bill.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

 4   the sponsor yield?

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I certainly do.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 7   sponsor yields.

 8                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

 9   Chairwoman Krueger, for the opportunity to ask 

10   you a few questions this evening on this debt 

11   service bill.

12                And I first and foremost want to say 

13   that it is incredibly important that we send 

14   notice to the creditors of the State of New York 

15   that we are living up to our obligations and will 

16   make the payments necessary.

17                Yet I have some questions on the 

18   eleventh-hour nature of this bill, that we're 

19   actually doing it pursuant to a message of 

20   necessity.  

21                Chairwoman Krueger, can you explain 

22   to us why this bill was not resolved before we 

23   needed a message of necessity to have it done 

24   before 12:01 a.m. April 1st?

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.  


                                                               2134

 1   Through you, Mr. President, we are running a bit 

 2   late this year because it is almost at the 

 3   deadline of when the year of -- the fiscal year 

 4   ends.  

 5                So as I think my colleagues know, we 

 6   have quite a few budget bills remaining to get 

 7   done.  We don't have them.  In fact, because we 

 8   don't have them, some of the information in this 

 9   bill right now, or at least in the memos, is 

10   hypothetical about what we expect our borrowing 

11   will be next year because we haven't completed 

12   the assignment.  So I can give my colleague 

13   estimates of what the borrowing will be for the 

14   coming year, but not a final number because we 

15   don't have that yet.

16                So we didn't want to bring a bill to 

17   the floor where we didn't have all the 

18   information, because we prefer not to.  But we 

19   also know, because of what this bill does -- make 

20   clear to the people of New York and the people we 

21   have borrowed money from, that New York State 

22   continues to operate in good faith, and when they 

23   wake up tomorrow they will know that we have made 

24   a commitment to continuing to pay our bills.

25                So that's why it is so crucial to 


                                                               2135

 1   get this bill done, even if we can't complete the 

 2   budget by midnight, so that we make sure everyone 

 3   knows we'll be a little bit late with the rest, 

 4   but we'll get it done.  But we are guaranteeing 

 5   that we will continue to make the payments on the 

 6   debt we owe.

 7                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

 8   Chairwoman.  

 9                Through you, Mr. President, if the 

10   chairwoman would continue to yield.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

12   the sponsor yield?

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

15   sponsor yields.

16                SENATOR O'MARA:   When is the end of 

17   our fiscal year and the start of the next fiscal 

18   year, Senator?

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Just 

20   double-checking.  April 1st is the start of the 

21   new fiscal year, so March 31st would be the end 

22   of this fiscal year.

23                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

24   Mr. President, if the chairwoman will still 

25   yield.


                                                               2136

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

 2   the sponsor yield?

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 5   sponsor yields.

 6                SENATOR O'MARA:   So we are taking 

 7   this bill up, as usual with budget bills, in the 

 8   dark -- maybe not as late as usual, but according 

 9   to the clock in the corner, 2 hours and 35 

10   minutes before the end of the fiscal year, with a 

11   message of necessity.  

12                We've had the Governor's Executive 

13   Budget and his debt service proposals for about 

14   two months now.  Can you explain to us what the 

15   differences are between what the Governor 

16   proposed back in January, and/or altered in his 

17   30-day amendments, compared to what we're doing 

18   here this evening in this bill?  What are the 

19   differences?

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   One minute.  

21   We're just getting you the right answers.

22                Through you, Mr. President.  The 

23   difference between what the Executive proposed in 

24   his 30-day amendments and what we have before us 

25   tonight is a change for fiscal year '22 of how 


                                                               2137

 1   much we will allow for emergency debt 

 2   authorizations.  The Governor had asked for 

 3   8 billion in PIT notes and 3 billion for a line 

 4   of credit.  That has shifted to, for the coming 

 5   year, 3 billion in PIT notes and 2 billion line 

 6   of credit.

 7                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

 8   Mr. President, if the chairwoman will still 

 9   yield.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

11   the sponsor yield?

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

14   sponsor yields.

15                SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator, what is 

16   the current total debt outstanding for New York 

17   State?

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So the current 

19   outstanding state-supported debt for fiscal year 

20   '21, 59.7 billion.

21                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

22   Mr. President, if the chairwoman will yield.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

24   the sponsor yield?

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.


                                                               2138

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 2   sponsor yields.

 3                SENATOR O'MARA:   We have in 

 4   New York a constitutionally mandated debt cap or 

 5   ceiling.  Where does this put us on a percentage 

 6   of the debt cap we have left to access, and what 

 7   that dollar amount is?

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We have 

 9   $14.5 billion left as room under our debt cap for 

10   fiscal year '22.

11                SENATOR O'MARA:   On a total of -- 

12   through you, Mr. President, if the chairwoman 

13   will continue to yield.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

15   the sponsor yield?

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

18   sponsor yields.  

19                SENATOR O'MARA:   So that's that 

20   $15 billion figure over and above the 57 or so 

21   billion dollar figure you mentioned a moment ago?

22                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I don't remember 

23   mentioning a $15 billion figure.

24                SENATOR O'MARA:   Fifty-seven.

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Fifty-seven was 


                                                               2139

 1   the current -- it was 59.7, the total outstanding 

 2   debt under state-supported debt.  And then I said 

 3   14.5 billion left under our current cap.

 4                SENATOR O'MARA:   Okay.  Through 

 5   you, Mr. President, if the chairwoman will 

 6   continue to yield.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

 8   the sponsor yield?

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

11   sponsor yields.

12                SENATOR O'MARA:   You mentioned that 

13   the short-term borrowing for PIT revenues, an 

14   11 -- and another reduction from the Governor's 

15   proposal to begin with.  And I'm assuming that's 

16   because revenues have come in stronger than 

17   anticipated at the end of the year here.

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   And particularly 

19   a commitment by the federal government to the 

20   State of New York both for state spending and for 

21   spending at our localities level.  

22                So this was all intended to be 

23   emergency backup money.  We think it's a good 

24   idea to have an option for an emergency borrowing 

25   plan.  But we are much less concerned about 


                                                               2140

 1   needing numbers as large as what we did last 

 2   year, which was closer to what the Governor 

 3   started with this year.

 4                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

 5   Mr. President, if the chairwoman will continue to 

 6   yield.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

 8   the sponsor yield?

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

11   sponsor yields.

12                SENATOR O'MARA:   What is the 

13   state's anticipated debt service under this 

14   proposal, and compared to last year?

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   And again, this 

16   is still proposed because we haven't completed 

17   our assignments on the remainder of the budget.  

18   But we project the state appropriation for debt 

19   service to total $16.4 billion, with cash 

20   disbursements projected to net at about 

21   6.4 billion.

22                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

23   Mr. President, if the chairwoman will continue to 

24   yield.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 


                                                               2141

 1   the sponsor yield?

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, of course.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 4   sponsor yields.

 5                SENATOR O'MARA:   Is the federal 

 6   unemployment funds that we've borrowed from the 

 7   federal government of about 7.9 billion, is that 

 8   covered in this bill, the service of that debt?  

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

10   Mr. President, I actually think we're stumped.  

11   We're not sure.  We could try to get somebody to 

12   help us with the answer, and then we'd need to 

13   wait a little while or continue with other 

14   questions and hopefully have someone else from 

15   Finance give us the answer.  

16                I think partly, even when we get an 

17   answer, it will be tentative because there is 

18   some belief that the federal government will be 

19   forgiving the funds that states had to borrow 

20   during the COVID pandemic.  So we might not 

21   actually owe them anything back, we might owe 

22   them something back, and it might or might not be 

23   reflected in these numbers.

24                SENATOR O'MARA:   Okay.  Through 

25   you, Mr. President, if the chairwoman will yield.  


                                                               2142

 1   And I will -- if you come up with an answer, I 

 2   only have a couple -- or a few more questions 

 3   left.  So if you do, we can talk offline.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

 5   the sponsor yield?

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I yield.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 8   sponsor yields.

 9                SENATOR O'MARA:   Of the debt 

10   service -- or no, excuse me, of the extra, over 

11   and above anticipated revenues that are coming in 

12   at the end of this budget year, how much of that 

13   is going to pay down existing debt?

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm not sure if 

15   I'm understanding the question right, so let me 

16   try to answer it one way.  And then if the 

17   sponsor {sic} thinks I missed the understanding 

18   of his question, he will repeat it in a different 

19   way.

20                As we said, we expect cash 

21   disbursements for the coming year to be 

22   6.4 billion, and the year that we're ending in a 

23   few hours had 11.9 billion in disbursements.

24                But I'm not sure -- you were asking 

25   about some subset of that based on some money 


                                                               2143

 1   coming in from the federal government at the end 

 2   of the year?

 3                SENATOR O'MARA:   Well, through you, 

 4   Mr. President, if I can clarify.

 5                Basically what I'm trying to get at 

 6   is with tax revenues coming in much larger than 

 7   anticipated, at least over the last few months 

 8   what was being expected to what we see today, and 

 9   with $12.6 billion at this point of federal 

10   stimulus money to the state, how much of that are 

11   we utilizing to pay down our existing debt?

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I don't think 

13   we're allowed to use our federal money to pay 

14   down existing debt at all.  I think that the 

15   federal money was intended to cover the costs in 

16   our coming years of what we needed.

17                So if you're asking should the state 

18   be continuing to pay down debt it owes from 

19   previous years out of revenue, yes, we should.  

20   That's what this whole bill is about, making sure 

21   that we continue to make our payments correctly 

22   and appropriately.

23                So if -- if you're asking should we 

24   have taken the federal money and paid off an 

25   increased amount of our debt, again, I'm pretty 


                                                               2144

 1   sure that wouldn't be allowed under the rules of 

 2   the road from the federal government.  

 3                If the -- if my colleague is asking 

 4   should we have taken greater amounts of our 

 5   existing revenue and paid off debt at a faster 

 6   rate than we were currently planning, that is 

 7   almost an ideological decision and discussion.  

 8                I personally think, given the fact 

 9   that we still are not sure how quickly we are 

10   going to be recovering from this pandemic and 

11   this economic collapse, we're not sure whether 

12   we're going to have another round, we're not sure 

13   how much it's going to cost us to mitigate and 

14   prepare ourselves for the post-pandemic world.

15                I think personally I would argue 

16   this would not be the best time to be speeding up 

17   our commitment of paying off debt.  This debt was 

18   accounted for, explained, there's a plan to pay 

19   it back.  I believe that we were going to 

20   continue to do that.  So if my colleague's 

21   question is should we be speeding up doing that, 

22   my opinion is no.

23                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

24   Chairwoman.  And through you, Mr. President, if 

25   the chairwoman would continue to yield.


                                                               2145

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

 2   the sponsor yield?

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 5   sponsor yields.

 6                SENATOR O'MARA:   Well, I certainly 

 7   disagree with that approach on not using excess 

 8   revenues coming in to pay down debt that we have 

 9   racked up in the state, as I think most 

10   homeowners would do in their own personal 

11   finances when extra revenues come in.

12                While we were preparing this budget, 

13   while Governor Cuomo was pleading with the 

14   federal government for stimulus aid, the Governor 

15   was talking about a $15 billion deficit.  We've 

16   got 12.6 billion coming from the feds to cover 

17   all but 2.4 billion of that.  And then since 

18   then, we've had revenues come in about 

19   $2.5 billion stronger than anticipated, and then 

20   anticipated to be coming in another 2.5 to 

21   $3 billion above that.

22                So that exceeds our $15 billion 

23   perceived deficit by the Governor by 2 to 

24   3 billion dollars.  Why is not some of that being 

25   utilized?  And I'm not suggesting it be stimulus 


                                                               2146

 1   funds, although I think some of it could be.  

 2   Certainly not all of it.  But with the extra 

 3   revenues that are coming in, those are certainly 

 4   available to us to use as we see fit.

 5                So why would we not be using some of 

 6   that 2 to 3 billion dollars to pay down debt 

 7   going forward?

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 9   Mr. President, I think I'll continue with the 

10   answer I thought I gave, which is I'm quite sure 

11   now we cannot use the federal revenue that is 

12   stimulus money to pay back debt by the State of 

13   New York.  Nor would I think that would be a very 

14   good idea.

15                We have a plan to pay off the debt 

16   that we owe.  I'm certainly encouraging any kind 

17   of refinancing at lowest or lower interest rates, 

18   and I think the State of New York does that on a 

19   continuing basis, and that is smart and prudent, 

20   so that as interest rates go down, we're paying 

21   less on the money we owe.

22                But again, I think my colleague and 

23   I have an ideological difference about whether at 

24   this moment in history it is better to pay off 

25   debt early or have the money ready to be used for 


                                                               2147

 1   both the things we don't know may be around the 

 2   corner as we continue with our pandemic and our 

 3   rebuild.  

 4                I'm not saying that I would always 

 5   disagree with him, and that if we were back at a 

 6   stable economy without a skyrocketed unemployment 

 7   rate, if we knew that we had the answer to COVID 

 8   illness and nobody was going to get it again, I 

 9   would say, you know, it might be a time to do 

10   some early payoffs.  But I don't think that's the 

11   right answer right now, Mr. President.

12                It doesn't prevent us from asking 

13   the question again during the course of the year 

14   or in a year.  But I think it is prudent for us 

15   not to do that now.

16                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

17   Chairwoman.

18                Just on the bill, Mr. President.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 

20   O'Mara on the bill.

21                SENATOR O'MARA:   Did you get an 

22   answer for something you wanted before I go, Liz, 

23   or --

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I haven't read it 

25   yet, so I -- 


                                                               2148

 1                SENATOR O'MARA:   Okay.  All right.

 2                You know, I have concerns with this 

 3   bill.  And if the sponsor would yield for one 

 4   quick question while she's reading it, I'm sorry.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Does 

 6   the sponsor yield?

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm sorry, yes.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

 9   sponsor yields.

10                SENATOR O'MARA:   I'm sorry, I just 

11   forgot the one last question.  

12                Do you anticipate that this debt 

13   service bill may be amended while we wrap up the 

14   rest of the budget bills at the end of it, as a 

15   cleanup?  

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   No, I think this 

17   would be the debt service bill.  But we may 

18   discover that there is some slight change in the 

19   amount of money that the state is going to be 

20   spending.  Because we don't have an exact number 

21   on a final number on the spending for the state 

22   or the revenue for the state.

23                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you.

24                And on the bill, Mr. President.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Senator 


                                                               2149

 1   O'Mara on the bill.

 2                SENATOR O'MARA:   I agree that this 

 3   Legislature and the State of New York needs to be 

 4   clear and direct with those that we've borrowed 

 5   billions and billions of dollars from.  

 6                But I don't believe this effort, 

 7   given our current fiscal situation -- as dire as 

 8   things have been over the year, revenues have 

 9   upticked towards the end of the fiscal year, 

10   drastically closing the deficit of what was 

11   anticipated, by some 5.7 billion between 

12   increased revenues and anticipated revenues and 

13   the revenue consensus that the Legislature and 

14   the Executive agreed to.  Over and above the 

15   12.6 billion, which goes to close what was stated 

16   as a $15 billion deficit.  

17                The fact that the other bills of 

18   this budget are not put together and we don't 

19   have any idea what the final spending number is 

20   going to be.  Or I know there's a big effort to 

21   increase taxes just for the sake of increased 

22   taxes, because it's not needed with our fiscal 

23   situation right now.

24                And by not putting forth a stronger 

25   effort to pay down on our debt, we I don't think 


                                                               2150

 1   are sending a message to the lenders, to the 

 2   bankers that we're being completely fiscally 

 3   responsible with the revenues that we have.  And 

 4   we should be making a greater effort to do that, 

 5   particularly when you're talking about raising 

 6   taxes on many people in this state.  

 7                So I have concerns with the approach 

 8   in this debt service, fully understanding that 

 9   this is going to pass, that we do need to make it 

10   clear that we're going to fulfill our 

11   obligations.  I'm not sure that needs to be done 

12   tonight and could be done with a clearer and 

13   fuller picture of what it should be when we have 

14   the full context of the budget.  And knowing what 

15   the revenues are going to be -- what the spending 

16   is going to be, we pretty much know what the 

17   revenues are going to be -- so we can make a more 

18   informed decision on whether this is an 

19   appropriate use or an appropriate way to approach 

20   our debt at this moment in time or whether we 

21   should be paying down more.

22                And those are my concerns.  I'll be 

23   urging my colleagues on this side of the aisle 

24   not to support this legislation, and I will be 

25   voting in the negative myself.


                                                               2151

 1                Thank you, Mr. President.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

 3   Senator Krueger on the bill.

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you very 

 5   much, Mr. President.

 6                I thank my colleague for his 

 7   questions.  I want to get him the answer he asked 

 8   for before, will we need to pay unemployment 

 9   borrowing from the federal government back 

10   through debt.  And the answer is no.  I was 

11   correct that it is possible that the federal 

12   government may exempt us from some or all of 

13   this.  But regardless, the unemployment fund is a 

14   separate fund within state law, and payments that 

15   have to be made, even upon borrowing in heavy 

16   unemployment times, is through the unemployment 

17   system, so the state would not be borrowing money 

18   to pay back the federal government.

19                As far as my colleague's point about 

20   is this a good time to speed up or advance paying 

21   off our previous debt, I have to say not only did 

22   I explain why I thought it wasn't the right time, 

23   but also, just to clarify, the bond market will 

24   not think lesser of us if we don't speed up 

25   paying what we owe them.  Ironically, they don't 


                                                               2152

 1   really like it when you prepay, because you're 

 2   paying them interest.  So they're not 

 3   particularly wild about anybody prepaying their 

 4   debt, the same way credit card companies really 

 5   can't stand customers who pay their monthly full 

 6   bill.

 7                And it's a period of very low 

 8   interest.  So in fact for the state to have 

 9   outstanding debt to be paying off in the amounts 

10   and the time frames that we arrange to do so, 

11   where we can get refinancing of even lower 

12   interest rates than we originally paid, is also 

13   prudent and responsible.  

14                So I think if New Yorkers understand 

15   that reality, that the debt we are paying has 

16   already been established, how it was going to be 

17   paid back was already established, nobody is 

18   saying you've failed to do this, we're going to 

19   be angry at you or penalize you or not continue 

20   to lend to you -- because we're paying our debts 

21   on time, within the time frame of the agreements, 

22   to be honest at a time where most states in the 

23   country can't necessarily say that.  We're 

24   handling it correctly.  And I'm confident that 

25   this is the right debt service bill for us to be 


                                                               2153

 1   passing tonight.

 2                And my colleague is right that we 

 3   should have answers for the rest of the budget by 

 4   10 to 10:00 when the budget year ends at 

 5   midnight, but unfortunately we don't.  And I've 

 6   lived through 19 years here in Albany in the 

 7   Legislature, and quite a few of them we were very 

 8   late on the budget -- July, August -- and it 

 9   wasn't a good thing.  But as long as we get this 

10   bill done tonight, when people wake up tomorrow 

11   and we haven't completed the full budget, it's 

12   going to have no impact on their lives or their 

13   budgets or whether government is operating in the 

14   State of New York.

15                So we're not perfect.  I believe 

16   we're going to get there just a few days late.  

17   And I don't think any real harm will be done as 

18   long as we do commit to paying the money we owe.  

19   And I'm confident you have the votes when you 

20   ask, Mr. President, and we will be able to get 

21   this bill done tonight.  

22                I certainly vote yes and urge my 

23   colleagues to vote yes.  Thank you, 

24   Mr. President.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Are 


                                                               2154

 1   there any other Senators wishing to be heard?

 2                Seeing and hearing none, debate is 

 3   closed.  The Secretary will ring the bell.

 4                Read the last section.

 5                THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 6   act shall take effect immediately.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   Call 

 8   the roll.

 9                (The Secretary called the roll.)

10                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:    

11   Announce the results.

12                THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

13   Calendar 644, those Senators voting in the 

14   negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Boyle, 

15   Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Jordan, Lanza, 

16   Martucci, Mattera, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, 

17   Palumbo, Rath, Ritchie, Serino, Stec, Tedisco and 

18   Weik.

19                Ayes, 43.  Nays, 20.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   The 

21   bill is passed.

22                Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

23   reading of the controversial calendar.

24                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Is there any 

25   further business at the desk?


                                                               2155

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   There 

 2   is no further business before the desk.

 3                SENATOR GIANARIS:   I move to 

 4   adjourn to the call of the Temporary President, 

 5   with intervening days being legislative days.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT BENJAMIN:   On 

 7   motion, the Senate stands adjourned at the call 

 8   of the Temporary President, with intervening days 

 9   being legislative days.

10                (Whereupon, at 9:50 p.m., the Senate 

11   adjourned.)

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