SMITH & MOSESNYS Legislation Tracker
BillsMembersTranscriptsHearings
BillsMembersFloorHearings
Back to transcripts

Tuesday, April 6, 2021

12:11 PMRegular SessionALBANY, NEW YORK
Download PDF
Analyzing transcript for bills discussed...
                                                               2171

 1                NEW YORK STATE SENATE

 2                          

 3                          

 4               THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

 5                          

 6                          

 7                          

 8                          

 9                  ALBANY, NEW YORK

10                    April 6, 2021

11                     12:11 p.m.

12                          

13                          

14                   REGULAR SESSION

15  

16  

17  

18  SENATOR SHELLEY B. MAYER, Acting President

19  ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary

20  

21  

22  

23  

24  

25  


                                                               2172

 1                P R O C E E D I N G S

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The Senate 

 3   will come to order.

 4                I ask everyone present to please 

 5   rise and recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

 6                (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 

 7   the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   In the 

 9   absence of clergy, let us bow our heads in a 

10   moment of silent reflection or prayer.

11                (Whereupon, the assemblage respected 

12   a moment of silence.)

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Reading of 

14   the Journal.

15                THE SECRETARY:   In Senate, Monday, 

16   April 5, 2021, the Senate met pursuant to 

17   adjournment.  The Journal of Sunday, April 4, 

18   2021, was read and approved.  On motion, Senate 

19   adjourned.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Without 

21   objection, the Journal stands approved as read.

22                Presentation of petitions.

23                Messages from the Assembly.

24                Messages from the Governor.

25                Reports of standing committees.


                                                               2173

 1                Reports of select committees.

 2                Communications and reports from 

 3   state officers.

 4                Motions and resolutions.

 5                Senator Gianaris.

 6                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Thank you, 

 7   Madam President.  

 8                Amendments are offered to the 

 9   following Third Reading Calendar bills:  

10                By Senator Gaughran, on page 12, 

11   Calendar Number 320, Senate Print 989; 

12                And by Senator Brooks, page 17, 

13   Calendar Number 443, Senate Print 1343A.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

15   amendments are received, and the bills shall 

16   retain their place on the Third Reading Calendar.

17                Senator Gianaris.

18                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

19   I move to adopt the Resolution Calendar, with the 

20   exception of Resolution 568.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   All in 

22   favor of adopting the Resolution Calendar, with 

23   the exception of Resolution 568, please signify 

24   by saying aye.

25                (Response of "Aye.")


                                                               2174

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Opposed, 

 2   nay.

 3                (No response.)

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 5   Resolution Calendar is adopted.

 6                Senator Gianaris.

 7                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

 8   while we are taking up that resolution, there 

 9   will be an immediate meeting of the 

10   Finance Committee in Room 332.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   There will 

12   be an immediate meeting of the Finance Committee 

13   in Room 332.

14                SENATOR GIANARIS:   And now let's 

15   take up Resolution 568, by Senator Kennedy, read 

16   its title only, and recognize Senator Kennedy.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

18   Secretary will read.

19                THE SECRETARY:   Senate Resolution 

20   568, by Senator Kennedy, mourning the tragic and 

21   untimely death of New York State Trooper Joseph 

22   Gallagher on March 26, 2021.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

24   Kennedy on the resolution.

25                SENATOR KENNEDY:   Thank you, 


                                                               2175

 1   Madam President.

 2                I rise today to honor the courageous 

 3   and compassionate life of New York State Trooper 

 4   Joseph Gallagher, who was tragically taken from 

 5   us far too soon.

 6                Originally hailing from South 

 7   Buffalo, New York, Trooper Gallagher served this 

 8   nation and state with integrity, honor and pride.  

 9   He dedicated his 38 years on this earth to 

10   protecting others.  Heartbreakingly, it was in 

11   that spirit of helping people that Trooper 

12   Gallagher ultimately suffered a critical 

13   life-changing injury.  

14                On December 18, 2017, Trooper 

15   Gallagher was stopping to assist a disabled 

16   motorist on an overpass leading to the 

17   Long Island Expressway, when he was struck by a 

18   distracted driver.  

19                Three years later, on March 26, 

20   2021, Trooper Gallagher succumbed to the 

21   devastating injuries he suffered that day.  His 

22   loss is heavy, leaving many, including his 

23   New York State Police family, in mourning.  

24                Trooper Gallagher began his career 

25   with the State Police in 2014 and was most 


                                                               2176

 1   recently assigned to cover Nassau County and 

 2   Suffolk Counties, after having served in downtown 

 3   New York.  Prior to joining the State Police, he 

 4   served as a rescue helicopter pilot for the 

 5   Coast Guard in Detroit.  

 6                He lived his life with purpose, and 

 7   he dedicated his life to service.  But we know 

 8   that as much as Trooper Gallagher loved his 

 9   career, his most treasured title was first and 

10   foremost a beloved husband and father.

11                He leaves behind his wife, Laura, 

12   and two children, William and Catherine, as well 

13   as his parents, brothers, a sister and countless 

14   friends.

15                Trooper Gallagher's legacy will 

16   undoubtedly live on through each and every one of 

17   them and in the many in uniform who are sworn to 

18   protect.  May his memory serve as a beacon of 

19   hope, of service, and of strength.  We thank his 

20   family for sharing him with all of us, and we 

21   extend our deepest condolences.

22                I'd like to ask that we honor him in 

23   this chamber here today, his sacrifices to our 

24   state and our nation, with a moment of silence.

25                (Whereupon, the assemblage respected 


                                                               2177

 1   a moment of silence.)

 2                SENATOR KENNEDY:   Thank you, 

 3   Madam President.  

 4                May Trooper Joseph Gallagher rest in 

 5   peace.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

 7   Senator Kennedy.

 8                Senator Boyle on the resolution.

 9                SENATOR BOYLE:   Thank you, 

10   Madam President.  Thank you, Senator Kennedy, for 

11   bringing this resolution.

12                On behalf of the citizens of 

13   Long Island, I would like to give our condolences 

14   to the family of Trooper Gallagher.  That tragic 

15   day we remember him being hit, three years ago, a 

16   young man who committed his life to law 

17   enforcement, to helping others.  

18                And I think of how it occurred; he 

19   was helping a disabled motorist.  I know there's 

20   been a lot of controversy since this tragedy 

21   about law enforcement and their role.  This is 

22   what law enforcement does.  He was helping a 

23   disabled motorist when someone who was texting 

24   and driving hit him, and caused ultimately his 

25   death.  


                                                               2178

 1                The day after that, I went to visit, 

 2   I with other elected officials went to visit the 

 3   hospital where the trooper was being treated.  It 

 4   was miraculous that he lived, he was in such 

 5   grave condition then.  But for those people who 

 6   are thinking about texting and driving or doing 

 7   anything else but paying attention to the road, 

 8   you do not want to ruin your life by killing 

 9   someone.  You particularly don't want to do it 

10   having that poor individual, that dedicated 

11   trooper, suffer for three years and then pass way 

12   before his time.

13                I want to again send our condolences 

14   to Trooper Gallagher's family -- his wife, his 

15   children, his parents, his siblings.  A true 

16   hero, and we will always remember it.  

17                I've talked to Senator Gallivan; I 

18   believe he was a constituent of his.  We'd like 

19   to perhaps rename a bridge, probably up in his 

20   area, or do something.  This resolution is very 

21   well thought of and crafted, and thank you very 

22   much, Senator Kennedy.  We should do something to 

23   honor him and his legacy and his great heroism.  

24                Thank you.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 


                                                               2179

 1   Senator Boyle.

 2                Senator Ortt on the resolution.

 3                SENATOR ORTT:   Thank you, 

 4   Madam President.  

 5                I want to thank my colleague from 

 6   Western New York, Senator Kennedy, for 

 7   introducing this resolution.  I also want to 

 8   thank my colleague Senator Boyle for speaking on 

 9   it.

10                I don't think anyone thinks about 

11   texting while driving, Senator Boyle.  That's 

12   sort of the problem, is they don't think.  We've 

13   passed legislation in this chamber to try and 

14   help diminish -- to force people to think about 

15   texting while driving and that if they were 

16   caught texting while driving, there would be 

17   consequences.

18                We also passed legislation that 

19   would require people to move over on the Thruway 

20   when a trooper is pulled off of the side or has 

21   someone pulled off to the side, because we 

22   understand how dangerous that part of their job 

23   or any part of their job is.

24                Trooper Gallagher, 38 years -- 

25   younger than a lot of people in this chamber.  


                                                               2180

 1   From Western New York, served his country, served 

 2   his state, a father and a husband -- gone, 

 3   because of someone who wasn't thinking.  Gone 

 4   because somebody was too distracted by a text 

 5   message or an app.  Someone who was acting 

 6   selfishly took the life of someone who dedicated 

 7   their life to acting unselfishly.  And that 

 8   really is the shame and the tragedy.  

 9                And Trooper Gallagher, the fighter, 

10   hung on for almost three years after suffering a 

11   horrific injury, a traumatic brain injury, before 

12   succumbing to his wounds.  My thoughts are with 

13   his wife, with his family.  

14                And I think it's great that we did 

15   this resolution.  And I hope that we will always 

16   remember in this chamber the very real dangers 

17   that other troopers and other members of our 

18   law enforcement like Trooper Gallagher face every 

19   single day.  No matter how mundane or routine the 

20   traffic stop or the call is, it can go wrong just 

21   like that.

22                And so I want to thank again my 

23   colleague Senator Kennedy for introducing this 

24   resolution, and I hope that everyone in this 

25   chamber will say a prayer for Trooper Gallagher 


                                                               2181

 1   and for his family today.

 2                Thank you, Madam President.  

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

 4   Senator Ortt.

 5                The question is on the resolution. 

 6   All in favor signify by saying aye.

 7                (Response of "Aye.")

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Opposed, 

 9   nay.

10                (No response.)

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

12   resolution is adopted.

13                Senator Gianaris.

14                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

15   Senator Kennedy would like to open this 

16   resolution for cosponsorship.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

18   resolution is open for cosponsorship.  Should you 

19   choose not to be a cosponsor of the resolution, 

20   please notify the desk.

21                Senator Gianaris.

22                SENATOR GIANARIS:   While we wait 

23   for the Finance Committee to wrap up its work, we 

24   will stand at ease, Madam President.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The Senate 


                                                               2182

 1   will stand at ease.

 2                (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease 

 3   at 12:22 p.m.)

 4                (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at 

 5   12:34 p.m.)

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The Senate 

 7   will return to order.

 8                Senator Gianaris.

 9                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

10   can we take up the report of the 

11   Finance Committee which is at the desk.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

13   Secretary will read.

14                THE SECRETARY:   Senator Krueger, 

15   from the Committee on Finance, reports the 

16   following bills:  

17                Senate Print 2501B, Senate Budget 

18   Bill, an act making appropriations for the 

19   support of government:  LEGISLATURE AND JUDICIARY 

20   BUDGET; 

21                Senate Print 2505C, Senate Budget 

22   Bill, an act to amend Chapter 887 of the Laws of 

23   1983; 

24                Senate Print 2507C, Senate Budget 

25   Bill, an act to amend Part H of Chapter 59 of the 


                                                               2183

 1   Laws of 2011; 

 2                Senate Print 2508C, Senate Budget 

 3   Bill, an act intentionally omitted.

 4                All bills reported direct to third 

 5   reading.  

 6                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to accept 

 7   the report of the Finance Committee.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   All those 

 9   in favor of accepting the report of the 

10   Finance Committee signify by saying aye.

11                (Response of "Aye.")

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Opposed, 

13   nay.

14                (No response.) 

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

16   Finance Committee report is accepted.

17                Senator Gianaris.  

18                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Let us now take 

19   up the supplemental calendar.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

21   Secretary will read.

22                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

23   645, Senate Print 2501B, Senate Budget Bill, an 

24   act making appropriations for the support of 

25   government.  


                                                               2184

 1                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Lay the bill 

 2   aside temporarily, please.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The bill 

 4   is laid aside temporarily.

 5                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 6   646, Senate Print 2505C, Senate Budget Bill, an 

 7   act to amend Chapter 887 of the Laws of 1983.

 8                SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The bill 

10   is laid aside.

11                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

12   647, Senate Print 2507C, Senate Budget Bill, an 

13   act to amend Part H of Chapter 59 of the Laws of 

14   2011.

15                SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:  The bill is 

17   laid aside.

18                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

19   648, Senate Print 2508C, Senate Budget Bill, an 

20   act intentionally omitted.

21                SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The bill 

23   is laid aside.

24                Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

25   reading of today's supplemental calendar.


                                                               2185

 1                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Can we now move 

 2   to the controversial calendar, please.

 3                Madam President, as we take up the 

 4   controversial calendar, let's start with 

 5   Calendar 647, please.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 7   Secretary will ring the bell.

 8                The Secretary will read.

 9                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

10   647, Senate Print 2507C, Senate Budget Bill, an 

11   act to amend Part H of Chapter 59 of the Laws of 

12   2011.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

14   Borrello.

15                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Yes, thank you, 

16   Madam President.  Would the sponsor yield for 

17   some questions.

18                SENATOR RIVERA:   Yes, 

19   Madam President.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

21   sponsor yields.

22                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Hello, 

23   Senator Rivera.  Thank you very much.  Appreciate 

24   it. 

25                I want to speak about the changes to 


                                                               2186

 1   nursing homes in Part GG of the Health and Mental 

 2   Health bill that requires 70 percent of their 

 3   revenues to be spent directly on patient care, 

 4   with 40 percent on resident-facing staffing, and 

 5   also any residential healthcare facility with 

 6   revenue more than 5 percent of expenses must 

 7   expend the revenue in a manner determined by the 

 8   department through regulations by November 1st of 

 9   the following year.  So that's the part I'd like 

10   to speak about.  

11                My first question is, was there any 

12   studies done by the state to quantify what this 

13   profit cap would do to -- and was there any 

14   correlation to the quality of care?  

15                SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

16   Madam President.  Well, first of all, thank you, 

17   Senator Borrello.  It's a pleasure to see you 

18   here, sir.

19                Well, this particular part of the 

20   budget -- as we all know, there are serious 

21   concerns that we all have had that have been a 

22   product of what we've seen as a result of the 

23   COVID pandemic in nursing homes across the state.  

24   There are a package of bills that we've already 

25   passed on this floor.  But we believe that it was 


                                                               2187

 1   necessary to actually approve this, and I'm very 

 2   glad that it has made the final cut.

 3                What we're talking about here is 

 4   making certain that we can dissuade bad actors 

 5   from entering into this business, folks that look 

 6   at nursing homes as strictly a business to make 

 7   money, as opposed to taking care of patients.  We 

 8   want to make sure that we can dissuade those 

 9   folks.  And we want to make sure, most 

10   specifically, that the money that is allocated to 

11   these facilities is used for actual care of 

12   people.  

13                So in this case the bill not only 

14   specifies that 70 percent of the revenue needs to 

15   have -- needs to go directly to resident care, 

16   but also, since we know how important it is, 

17   Madam President, for them to have adequate 

18   staffing to take care of the folks who are in 

19   nursing homes, we establish that there is 

20   40 percent of total revenue that needs to go to 

21   resident-facing staffing.

22                And Madam President, I will tell you 

23   that this was an extensive effort that -- after 

24   we have talked to every stakeholder that we could 

25   find to get a better sense of how to best 


                                                               2188

 1   structure this.  So we have talked to folks who 

 2   are patient advocates, folks who are proprietors 

 3   of nursing homes, folks who represent the workers 

 4   in nursing homes.  

 5                And we feel that this version that 

 6   we have in front of us would be able to achieve 

 7   what we need to achieve, which is to make sure 

 8   that folks in nursing homes are safe and that the 

 9   money that is allocated to them, Madam President, 

10   goes to the actual care of real patients.

11                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you, 

12   Madam President.  Would the sponsor continue to 

13   yield.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

15   Rivera, do you continue to yield?  

16                SENATOR RIVERA:   Yes, 

17   Madam President.

18                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Well, first of 

19   all, thank you.  And I appreciate that.  I think 

20   that no one can dispute that we want to ensure 

21   that our most vulnerable citizens, those living 

22   in nursing homes, are going to be cared for 

23   properly.  

24                But it appears that the nursing 

25   homes that expend the most of their revenue on 


                                                               2189

 1   patient care actually have the lowest ratings.  

 2   So my question is, do we know if there's actually 

 3   a correlation between spending more and actually 

 4   getting a better quality of care?  Because in 

 5   fact our public nursing homes, our government-run 

 6   nursing homes, typically are the lowest rated, 

 7   and they spent the most money on labor.  

 8                So is there any correlation between 

 9   that revenue -- and how did we get to 70 percent?  

10   Was there a number -- was that number chosen 

11   because of some kind of a study on the quality of 

12   care based on how much money is expended?  

13                SENATOR RIVERA:   So 

14   Madam President, I will you tell that part of 

15   this was a back-and-forth.  There are different 

16   states that have approached it in different ways 

17   and different proposals that have been put 

18   forward.  

19                But we felt that indeed it is -- by 

20   determining it the 70 percent of the -- of its 

21   revenue must be used on patient care, that that 

22   is precisely what we need to focus on that we 

23   need to -- that this is precisely what actually 

24   would secure the safety of the people inside 

25   nursing homes.  


                                                               2190

 1                I'll tell you, Madam President, that 

 2   as I said, other states have approached it 

 3   differently, and we felt that 70 percent was the 

 4   right way to do it.  And the way that we 

 5   structured it -- and this is an important part, 

 6   Madam President.  The way that we structured it 

 7   is making sure that -- because there's a lot of 

 8   ways that people can actually -- potentially 

 9   could have cut corners and could have seemed like 

10   they were spending a lot of money but then not a 

11   lot of it was going to actual patient care.  

12                But I will tell you, 

13   Madam President, through you, that we feel very 

14   strongly, based on all the conversations that we 

15   had with stakeholders and folks that have done 

16   much thinking on this issue, that this is the 

17   right percentage.  And that having 70 percent of 

18   revenue to direct care for residents and 

19   40 percent of revenue on resident-facing staffing 

20   is actually the way to make sure that people are 

21   safe in these facilities.

22                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you.  

23                Madam President, would the sponsor 

24   continue to yield.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 


                                                               2191

 1   Rivera, do you continue to yield?  

 2                SENATOR RIVERA:   Yes, 

 3   Madam President.

 4                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Through you, 

 5   Madam President, what's the total fiscal impact 

 6   for nursing homes in New York that currently do 

 7   not meet the requirements in this legislation and 

 8   would have to rebate their excess revenues to the 

 9   state?  You know, do we have any idea what that 

10   fiscal impact might be?

11                SENATOR RIVERA:   Madam President, 

12   if -- through you, if the -- if the Senator could 

13   repeat the question, please.  I'm sorry.  

14                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Sure.  What is 

15   the -- I'm asking what the total fiscal impact 

16   statewide would be for nursing homes that do not 

17   meet that standard currently, and what would then 

18   the impact of that excess revenue rebated to the 

19   state be on just the economy of our nursing 

20   homes?  Do we have any idea?  Based on their 

21   current models and their current expenditures.

22                SENATOR RIVERA:   Madam President, 

23   at this point I could not tell you what that 

24   number could potentially be.

25                And when we look at it, the issue 


                                                               2192

 1   here is that because we want to make sure that 

 2   folks spend -- that these institutions, these 

 3   entities spend most of their money on actual 

 4   direct patient care, we are hoping that we don't 

 5   have to actually get any of this money back.  We 

 6   are hoping, Madam President, that they are doing 

 7   the right thing.

 8                So they will have to shift some of 

 9   their expenditures to be able to meet these 

10   requirements.  It is -- we don't know what the 

11   number is going to be.  But again, the goal of us 

12   structuring it this way is to make sure that most 

13   of the money goes to actual patient care.  And we 

14   are hoping, Madam President, that we do not have 

15   to get any money back from any of these 

16   institutions.  Because again, we need to make 

17   sure that that money goes to actual patient care.

18                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Madam President, 

19   will the sponsor continue to yield.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

21   Rivera, do you continue to yield?

22                SENATOR RIVERA:   Yes, 

23   Madam President.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

25   Senator yields.


                                                               2193

 1                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Through you, 

 2   Madam President.  So let's assume that since 

 3   they're currently working under these models, 

 4   many of which are guaranteed in their covenants 

 5   with their banks, so they're going to have to 

 6   continue with these current models in order to be 

 7   profitable -- let's assume for the moment that 

 8   some of these nursing homes are going to have to 

 9   relinquish that revenue.  Where will that revenue 

10   go that is relinquished to the state?  Where will 

11   that money, their profits that are going to be 

12   seized by the state, where will they be going?  

13                SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

14   Madam President.  First of all, I will tell you 

15   that this is actually a -- and thanks to my staff 

16   for clarifying this.  It is forward-looking, so 

17   these will be from 2022 onwards.  So in other 

18   words, we would give them some time to actually 

19   fix their -- you know, make sure that they're 

20   doing it right.

21                As far as where this money would go, 

22   this would actually remit back to the state and 

23   would go -- one second, Madam President.  Thank 

24   you, Madam President.  Through you, 

25   Madam President, it would go to an actual pool of 


                                                               2194

 1   money specifically for this purpose, to make sure 

 2   that this money comes back.  And it is a quality 

 3   pool for nursing homes which would then 

 4   potentially be used by the state to actually make 

 5   sure that we can give it back to nursing homes.

 6                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you.  

 7                Madam President, will the sponsor 

 8   continue to yield?

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

10   Senator Rivera, do you continue to yield?  

11                SENATOR RIVERA:   Yes, 

12   Madam President.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

14   sponsor yields.

15                SENATOR BORRELLO:   So we're going 

16   to create a pool of money from the profits that 

17   are taken from these nursing homes, and then 

18   you're saying it's going to be used to improve 

19   the quality of care.  How will that be done?  

20                SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

21   Madam President.  When we have this pool -- which 

22   again, I am hoping that we don't -- that that 

23   pool does not ever grow that big.  But there will 

24   be a determination at that point, probably by the 

25   Department of Health, as well as involvement from 


                                                               2195

 1   the Legislature, on how that money would actually 

 2   be spent, to make sure that we can address 

 3   quality concerns in nursing homes.  

 4                But I will underline, 

 5   Madam President, that this is a measure that is 

 6   created to let folks know ahead of time that 

 7   you're not going to be using these facilities 

 8   anymore as just cash-making machines, that you 

 9   have to make sure that you spend the money on 

10   actually taking care of people.  Which means that 

11   the good actors are going to be fine.  We 

12   actually are seeing that most of the facilities 

13   in the State of New York, even though most of 

14   them are for-profit companies, actually meet this 

15   criteria already.  We just want to make sure that 

16   the folks that are bad actors -- and when they're 

17   bad actors, we're talking about that they hit the 

18   most vulnerable people -- this would actually 

19   dissuade them from doing it.  

20                So Madam President -- and I'm not 

21   sure how much would go into that pool, but I can 

22   assure you that not only would the Department of 

23   Health -- hopefully under a different Governor, 

24   but also a different Legislature, that the 

25   Legislature would be involved in determining what 


                                                               2196

 1   happens with that money as well.

 2                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Madam President, 

 3   will the sponsor continue to yield.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 5   Rivera, do you continue to yield?  

 6                SENATOR RIVERA:   Yes, 

 7   Madam President.  

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 9   Senator yields.  

10                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Through you, 

11   Madam President.  

12                So you mentioned bad actors.  I 

13   previously referenced the fact that the 

14   lowest-rated nursing homes typically in New York 

15   State are government-run.  In fact, the highest 

16   number of deaths from COVID in our nursing homes 

17   were government-run nursing homes.  

18                So does this bill address bad actors 

19   that are run either by not-for-profits or by 

20   government-run facilities?  

21                SENATOR RIVERA:   Madam President, 

22   this is a bill that actually covers every nursing 

23   home, whether they be for-profit or nonprofit.  

24   It just states that the percentage of money that 

25   needs to be spent on patient care needs to hit 


                                                               2197

 1   that 70/40 ratio.

 2                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Madam President, 

 3   on the bill.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 5   Borrello on the bill.

 6                SENATOR BORRELLO:   First of all, 

 7   Senator Rivera, thank you so much for indulging 

 8   me.  I appreciate it.  And I certainly appreciate 

 9   what you're trying to accomplish here.  I think 

10   we all intend to ensure that our seniors living 

11   in nursing homes get the best care possible, 

12   however.  And again, I appreciate your efforts 

13   here.

14                But I have a lot of concerns.  I 

15   think, you know, one thing I've learned in my 

16   short time in Albany is the fact that so much of 

17   what we do here has unintended consequences.  And 

18   this particular part of the budget bill is no 

19   exception.

20                You know, the reality is is that if 

21   we want to point a finger as to what has impacted 

22   the quality of care in our nursing homes more 

23   than anything else, it's the fact that our 

24   Governor has been on a mission to reduce Medicaid 

25   reimbursements.  Year after year, we continue 


                                                               2198

 1   down that path.  Now, I understand that this bill 

 2   will stop this most recent 1 percent cut in 

 3   Medicaid reimbursements.  But the reality is 

 4   New York State already has the largest gap, more 

 5   than any other state, between what it costs to 

 6   care for a patient in a nursing home and what 

 7   they get reimbursed.  The average is $55 per day.  

 8   The average nursing home loses -- loses -- 

 9   $55 per day, based on what they get reimbursed by 

10   Medicaid and what it actually costs them.  

11                And as we all know, the whole idea 

12   of being on Medicaid in a nursing home is very 

13   common.  In fact, in most nursing homes, the 

14   Medicaid mix is better than 90 percent.  So if we 

15   really want to address quality of care, we should 

16   start by the fact that we are continuing to 

17   expand the pool of people that are qualified to 

18   be on Medicaid in New York State while we're 

19   shrinking the amount of money we're paying to 

20   those that are actually caring for those folks.

21                There's also other issues here.  You 

22   know, we said we were going to start at the 

23   beginning of 2022, which is less than a year 

24   away.  You know, eight or nine months.  But the 

25   way things work with nursing homes, especially 


                                                               2199

 1   failing nursing homes, is that a company comes 

 2   in, they take on a failing nursing home, and then 

 3   they go to get financed.  Well, they can't be 

 4   financed based on the value of the home that's 

 5   failing.  So they have to sign a covenant with a 

 6   financial institution, an agreement, in order for 

 7   them to get financed.  

 8                And part of that agreement is for 

 9   them to come up with a budget and say, This is 

10   how we're going to spend our money to turn this 

11   facility around, and that's why this financial 

12   institution should now give us that money.

13                What this bill will do is forcibly 

14   change that covenant with those financial 

15   institutions.  They will be forced potentially 

16   into insolvency.  The most recent nursing home 

17   that was approved was in White Plains.  If this 

18   bill passes as is, that nursing home will 

19   automatically go into default based on their 

20   covenant with the bank.  

21                This is going to mean nursing homes 

22   closing.  Where will those people go?  We already 

23   have a shortage.  In my part of the state, we 

24   already have healthcare deserts.  We already have 

25   nursing homes that are not able to stay open, 


                                                               2200

 1   they have closed.  We're going to force that, 

 2   unfortunately.  

 3                So while I understand the intent, 

 4   it's misguided in this sense.  And it's going to 

 5   lead to lower standards of care because we're 

 6   going to have less places willing to actually be 

 7   in this business.

 8                So I'm very troubled by this, 

 9   Madam President, and that's why I'll be voting no 

10   on this section of the budget.  Thank you.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

12   Senator Akshar.

13                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

14   good morning.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Good 

16   morning.

17                SENATOR AKSHAR:   If the sponsor 

18   would be so kind to answer a few questions.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

20   Rivera, do you yield?  

21                SENATOR RIVERA:   Madam President, I 

22   will indeed be so kind.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

24   sponsor yields.

25                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Senator, good to 


                                                               2201

 1   see you.  Just for planning purposes, I intend to 

 2   ask some questions in Part X and Part W to start, 

 3   in reference to this budget bill.  

 4                Would the sponsor tell me how many 

 5   OMH beds are slated to be closed?  Excuse me.  

 6   I'm sorry, what are we doing here?

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 8   Brouk, are you going to be answering questions on 

 9   this portion?  

10                SENATOR BROUK:   Yes.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

12   Brouk yields.

13                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Senator Rivera, 

14   nonetheless, it was good to see you.  

15                (Laughter.)

16                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Senator, thank you 

17   for taking my questions.  

18                My question to you is, how many 

19   psychiatric beds statewide are slated to be 

20   closed?  

21                SENATOR BROUK:   Our estimate is 

22   that it's about 200 inpatient bed closures.

23                SENATOR AKSHAR:   I'm sorry, 

24   Madam President.  The answer was 200?  

25                SENATOR BROUK:   Yes, that's the 


                                                               2202

 1   answer.

 2                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

 3   through you, if the sponsor will continue to 

 4   yield.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 6   Brouk, do you continue to yield?  

 7                SENATOR BROUK:   Yes.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 9   Senator yields.  

10                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Senator, with the 

11   closure of those 200 beds, what is the proposed 

12   savings in relation to those closures?  

13                SENATOR BROUK:   The expected 

14   savings would be about $22 million.

15                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

16   through you, if the sponsor will continue to 

17   yield.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

19   Brouk, do you continue to yield?  

20                SENATOR BROUK:   Yes.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

22   Senator yields.

23                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Senator, how much 

24   of that 22 million is being reinvested into the 

25   community?  


                                                               2203

 1                SENATOR BROUK:   That's a great 

 2   question.  And through this enacted budget, those 

 3   $22 million will be savings for the Office of 

 4   Mental Hygiene.

 5                However, we do believe that that 

 6   savings will be offset by millions of dollars in 

 7   federal funding that will be coming through OMH, 

 8   and that that can make up for this one-time 

 9   offset for this one-time investment in these 

10   communities.  

11                And we will continue to have regular 

12   and ongoing conversations to make sure that that 

13   is indeed what happens.

14                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

15   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

16   yield.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

18   Brouk, do you continue to yield?  

19                SENATOR BROUK:   Yes.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

21   Senator yields.

22                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Of the $22 million 

23   that is being saved, how much of that money, how 

24   much of the 22 million in relation to the closure 

25   of the 200 beds is being reinvested into 


                                                               2204

 1   communities across the state?

 2                SENATOR BROUK:   We believe that 

 3   with the millions of dollars that we are able to 

 4   secure from the federal government, that some of 

 5   that money will be able to be invested, again to 

 6   offset this one-time investment that would have 

 7   come from the closing of these beds.  And in 

 8   addition to that, we will have regular 

 9   communication with OMH and there will be 

10   quarterly reporting to be able to track that 

11   investment.

12                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

13   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

14   yield.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

16   Brouk, do you continue to yield?  

17                SENATOR BROUK:   Yes.

18                SENATOR AKSHAR:   So the answer is 

19   zero, you are reinvesting zero dollars in terms 

20   of what you saved by the closure of the 200 beds.  

21                SENATOR BROUK:   Again, with the 

22   closing of these beds, our hope is that the 

23   millions of dollars that we've gotten from the 

24   federal government for this one-time investment 

25   will be able to cover any reinvestment that is 


                                                               2205

 1   lost from these $22 million.  And there will be 

 2   quarterly reporting to help make sure that that 

 3   occurs.

 4                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

 5   if the sponsor would continue to yield.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 7   Brouk, do you continue to yield?  

 8                SENATOR BROUK:   Yes.

 9                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Would the sponsor 

10   be so kind to educate me on what she's referring 

11   to in reference to a one-time investment?  What 

12   is she referring to?

13                SENATOR BROUK:   The one-time 

14   investment I am referring to is the $160 million 

15   from enhanced federal funding.  And the other 

16   one-time investment that I'm referring to is that 

17   these savings are a one-time community 

18   reinvestment.  And so that is why we believe that 

19   this $160 million that is coming in this enhanced 

20   federal funding for OMH into New York State can 

21   offset this one-time community investment that 

22   would have been.

23                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

24   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

25   yield.


                                                               2206

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 2   Brouk, do you continue to yield?  

 3                SENATOR BROUK:   Yes.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 5   Senator yields.

 6                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Is it the 

 7   Senator's position that we are abdicating our 

 8   responsibility in terms of the monies that the 

 9   state is currently investing in the mental health 

10   issue and just resting solely on the federal 

11   government to provide these services?

12                SENATOR BROUK:   I think it is 

13   rather clear, and will become clearer as the day 

14   goes on, that the position that we hold is that 

15   the federal funding that has come into New York 

16   State we are grateful for, it is much-needed at a 

17   time of great loss, as we've had during COVID-19 

18   and we have done everything we can to make sure 

19   that communities will stay whole.  

20                Which is why I have personally 

21   worked very closely with OMH and will continue to 

22   do so through not only these quarterly regular 

23   reports, but also ongoing engagement between OMH 

24   in regards to this enhanced federal funding and 

25   with communities to make sure that this money 


                                                               2207

 1   gets to communities who need it.

 2                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

 3   if the sponsor will continue to yield.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 5   Brouk, do you continue to yield?

 6                SENATOR BROUK:   Yes.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 8   Senator yields.

 9                SENATOR AKSHAR:   How serious is the 

10   mental health issue across this great state?

11                SENATOR BROUK:   I think that we are 

12   currently in a moment where there are enhanced 

13   needs, specifically when it comes to folks in 

14   mental health crisis.  Which is why we have done 

15   a great deal of work to make sure that we are 

16   bringing the care and support that folks who have 

17   experienced traumas, especially throughout 

18   COVID-19, will get what they need.

19                And that is what this bill reflects, 

20   is investment and also putting resources towards 

21   people who may need added mental health care 

22   throughout the state.

23                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Thank you 

24   Madam President, if the sponsor will continue to 

25   yield.


                                                               2208

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 2   Brouk, do you continue to yield?

 3                SENATOR BROUK:   Yes.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 5   Senator yields.

 6                SENATOR AKSHAR:   The Senator 

 7   suggested that there are currently enhanced needs 

 8   when it comes to people suffering from mental 

 9   health issues.  There are so many people in 

10   crisis, they need care, they need support.  Does 

11   the sponsor believe it's appropriate to supplant 

12   funding rather than continue to invest 

13   significantly in what she describes as the 

14   enhanced needs of people across this great state?  

15                SENATOR BROUK:   Would you repeat 

16   your question, please.

17                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Sure.  Do you 

18   believe it appropriate to be supplanting money -- 

19   you're talking about receiving $160 million in 

20   federal money, and clearly you are not investing 

21   any of the monies that are being saved by the 

22   closure of 200 beds.  Do you think it's 

23   appropriate, in a time when you describe that 

24   people have enhanced needs, people are in crisis, 

25   they need care, they need support -- do you think 


                                                               2209

 1   we should be supplanting federal dollars rather 

 2   than making direct investments with the monies 

 3   that we save from the closure of 200 beds?  

 4                SENATOR BROUK:   I think it's 

 5   important to point out that -- as you can see in 

 6   Part W -- this is a one-time waiver, and after 

 7   that all community reinvestment will continue to 

 8   occur.

 9                And I also think that as we think 

10   about as a whole, there is increased funding, 

11   more than we have seen in many years, into mental 

12   health, and it is directly as a result of the 

13   understanding that our communities need help when 

14   it comes to mental health.

15                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

16   through you, if the sponsor will continue to 

17   yield.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

19   Brouk, do you continue to yield?  

20                SENATOR BROUK:   Yes.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

22   Senator yields.

23                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Since you brought 

24   up the issue of this proposal, this one year of 

25   not reinvesting the monies that were saved by way 


                                                               2210

 1   of the closure of the beds, why did we -- what 

 2   was the reason for that?  How did we arrive at 

 3   this decision to grant the Governor a one-year 

 4   waiver of the reinvestment clause?  

 5                SENATOR BROUK:   The Legislature was 

 6   not able to buy back the 22 million in savings.  

 7   However, we were able to buy back $8 million, 

 8   which would prevent the closure of the Rockland 

 9   Children's Psychiatric Center.

10                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

11   if the sponsor would continue to yield.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

13   Brouk, do you continue to yield?  

14                SENATOR BROUK:   Yes.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

16   Senator yields.

17                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Let me try again 

18   on the question.  I didn't ask about the Rockland 

19   center or a buy-back, but I'll come back to that.  

20                How did you land on that issue of 

21   granting this Governor the allowance of 

22   suspending the community reinvestment portion for 

23   one year?

24                SENATOR BROUK:   I think, first of 

25   all, we do need to acknowledge the moment that 


                                                               2211

 1   we're in.  We are in unprecedented times that no 

 2   one could have planned or expected.  And we are 

 3   moving forward outside of this year with 

 4   continuing to always reinvest these community 

 5   funds.

 6                It is a one-time waiver that I 

 7   believe reflects the unprecedented time we're in, 

 8   as does the massive $160 million federal enhanced 

 9   funding, which directly reflects the kind of loss 

10   and unprecedence of the time we're in due to 

11   COVID-19.  And therefore it is a one-year change 

12   that will not live outside of this year.

13                SENATOR AKSHAR:   I'm on the bill 

14   for just a second.

15                I am acknowledging the fact that we 

16   are in unprecedented times.  That's why I'm 

17   asking the questions.  It is -- we are in fact 

18   living in a time when people have enhanced needs, 

19   when people are in crisis, when they need care, 

20   when they need support.

21                But what are we doing?  We're 

22   closing -- again, this year, we're closing -- 

23   we're giving the Governor the ability to close 

24   200 psychiatric beds.  And rather than invest the 

25   money that we're saving, like we're supposed to 


                                                               2212

 1   be doing, we are in fact acquiescing to the 

 2   Governor and saying, well, the federal government 

 3   is giving us money, so let us not invest that 

 4   22 million that we're saving from the closure of 

 5   200 beds.

 6                Madam President, if the sponsor 

 7   would continue to yield.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 9   Brouk, do you continue to yield?

10                SENATOR BROUK:   Yes.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

12   Senator yields.

13                SENATOR AKSHAR:   I've heard a lot 

14   about this federal money, this enhanced money, 

15   160 million.  Can you give me, my constituency, 

16   and the rest of New Yorkers some idea on how that 

17   $160 million will be spent to address people in 

18   crisis, the enhanced needs that people have, the 

19   care and the support that they need?

20                SENATOR BROUK:   Certainly.

21                I also want to clarify some of my 

22   previous comments, one of which was about the 

23   closing of these beds.  These are beds that have 

24   been closed for 90 days already.  And I think 

25   that it's incredibly important to recall that the 


                                                               2213

 1   Governor holds that power to close beds.

 2                However, what we have done through 

 3   this process is to watch more closely, to insist 

 4   on quarterly reporting, so that we can better 

 5   ensure that any of this added federal funding 

 6   that has come through will go to communities who 

 7   need it the most.

 8                I also think it's important because 

 9   I do take this very seriously, I have seen the 

10   effects that COVID-19, that social isolation, 

11   that increased amounts of depression have had on 

12   our communities, our young people, our seniors 

13   and of course people who are already struggling 

14   with mental health challenges.

15                Which is why one thing that we have 

16   focused on in this budget are these crisis 

17   stabilization centers.  We are shifting a 

18   paradigm in how people are getting the care they 

19   need for mental health, keeping them out of 

20   moments of crisis.  And that is what this budget 

21   does.  It shifts the way we think about mental 

22   health, and it better equips folks who are first 

23   responders, folks in the community, to make sure 

24   that people are indeed getting care that they 

25   need and that they're getting a continuum of care 


                                                               2214

 1   that they need.

 2                SENATOR AKSHAR:   On the bill for 

 3   just a second.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 5   Senator Akshar on the bill.

 6                SENATOR AKSHAR:   With all due 

 7   respect to my colleague, in terms of Part AA, if 

 8   we were serious about these comprehensive crisis 

 9   reforms, then maybe we would have given real 

10   consideration to the changes in Kendra's Law that 

11   the Governor was suggesting.  Because, you know, 

12   while I think there are great talking points, we 

13   certainly didn't make that as strong as it 

14   currently could have been.

15                Madam President, through you, if the 

16   sponsor would continue to yield.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

18   Brouk, do you continue to yield?  

19                SENATOR BROUK:   Yes.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

21   Senator yields.

22                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Under current law, 

23   does the commissioner of OMH -- is the 

24   commissioner required to give a one-year 

25   notification before closing any beds?


                                                               2215

 1                SENATOR BROUK:   Under current law, 

 2   it's for closing facilities.

 3                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

 4   I'm sorry, could she repeat the answer?  

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 6   Brouk, do you continue to yield?

 7                SENATOR BROUK:   Yes.

 8                SENATOR AKSHAR:   The answer is yes, 

 9   under current law the commissioner is currently 

10   required to give a one-year notification before 

11   closing any facilities?  

12                SENATOR BROUK:   Before closing 

13   facilities, yes.

14                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

15   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

16   yield.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

18   Brouk, do you continue to yield?

19                SENATOR BROUK:   Yes.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

21   Senator yields.   

22                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Under current law, 

23   is the Governor supposed to reinvest all savings 

24   from the closing of inpatient beds?

25                SENATOR BROUK:   We did give that 


                                                               2216

 1   authority for three years, with the exception of 

 2   this year.

 3                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

 4   on the bill.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 6   Senator Akshar on the bill.

 7                SENATOR AKSHAR:   I want to thank 

 8   the sponsor for answering my questions.  Clearly, 

 9   I know that you are passionate about this 

10   particular issue, and so am I.

11                You know, I think in government we 

12   have -- when it comes to taking care of those 

13   with mental health issues, this really is one of 

14   the most I think basic obligations.  Right?  It's 

15   fundamental to what we do in government.  But yet 

16   we see, year after year, more and more beds being 

17   closed.  We see an increase in crime that has a 

18   direct correlation to those who are not being 

19   treated.  

20                And, you know, something that I too 

21   am passionate about is the men and women of law 

22   enforcement.  And how often we hear from our 

23   friends across the aisle that the members of law 

24   enforcement are not dealing with those with 

25   mental health issues appropriately and they need 


                                                               2217

 1   to do a better job.

 2                But yet we find ourselves in a 

 3   situation where we are, yes, closing another 

 4   200 beds across this great state and we're not 

 5   taking that 22 million and investing it again in 

 6   mental health services.

 7                Yes, I understand that the federal 

 8   government has come through with a significant 

 9   amount of money.  But all too often I think we 

10   find ourselves in this predicament in which we 

11   are supplanting federal dollars and not 

12   reinvesting state dollars.

13                I just want to remind everybody of 

14   something that recently happened.  I talked about 

15   this the other day.  Brandon Elliot, a man in the 

16   City of New York who viciously attacked an 

17   Asian-American woman -- and it was very, very 

18   clear from all accounts that Mr. Elliot was 

19   released on parole -- and that's a separate 

20   conversation -- but he was out in the community.  

21   And everybody who knew him said he was in this 

22   homeless shelter, but he was not getting the 

23   services, was not having his mental health issues 

24   addressed accordingly.

25                And it would really be my hope here 


                                                               2218

 1   that, as the sponsor said in the debate, that we 

 2   would watch very, very closely how these dollars 

 3   from the federal government are being spent.  

 4                And Senator, I know that you say the 

 5   Governor has extreme powers and he can close 

 6   whatever he wants to.  Maybe it would be the 

 7   collective wisdom of this body and our friends in 

 8   the other house to put forth a piece of 

 9   legislation that says before any beds can be 

10   closed -- OMH, OPWDD, whatever it may be -- 

11   before that could ever happen, it would require 

12   the Legislature's approval.  I think that that 

13   would be beneficial to the people of this great 

14   state.

15                So, Madam President, when it comes 

16   time, of course, I'll be voting no on this 

17   section of the bill.  I did have one further 

18   question in reference to another issue, if I can, 

19   Part OO, the settlement agreement, the McKinsey 

20   settlement agreement.  I don't know who's going 

21   to answer that.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

23   Gianaris.

24                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

25   as throughout the day we'll have different 


                                                               2219

 1   members answering different sections, I will try 

 2   and direct as appropriate.  

 3                I think Senator Rivera will answer 

 4   that question.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 6   Senator Rivera, do you yield?  

 7                SENATOR RIVERA:   I will in one 

 8   second, Madam President.

 9                SENATOR AKSHAR:   I just have two 

10   very basic questions.  I understand it's in the 

11   Aid to Localities section.  I just want to ask 

12   two very, very basic questions about the 

13   settlement.  

14                SENATOR RIVERA:   Madam President, I 

15   yield.

16                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Thank you, 

17   Senator.  

18                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

19   Senator yields.

20                SENATOR AKSHAR:   I want to applaud 

21   the Majority for this particular issue in the 

22   one-house.  And in the one-house it was very, 

23   very specific that the $32 million in the 

24   McKinsey settlement would essentially be put in a 

25   lockbox and used for very, very specific 


                                                               2220

 1   purposes.  

 2                I just wondered if the sponsor would 

 3   be so kind as to just educate me on why this 

 4   proposal, as proposed in the Senate's one-house, 

 5   was not in the enacted budget.

 6                SENATOR RIVERA:   Madam President, 

 7   through you.  As is true with everything, we 

 8   don't always get exactly what we would want.  And 

 9   although yes, our position in the White House -- 

10   the White House?  In the one-house.  Our position 

11   in the one-house was certainly the position of 

12   this conference -- this is -- as we went to final 

13   negotiations.  

14                This is -- it is a good version of 

15   it, it is not the best version of it.  But 

16   ultimately at the core, the goal here is to make 

17   sure that as these funds come in from different 

18   settlements, that they are utilized to -- to not 

19   to put too fine a point on it, Madam President, 

20   to make sure that we fix the damage that has been 

21   caused by these companies.

22                And so even though it is not exactly 

23   the one that we would like, I still believe that 

24   it achieves a good purpose.

25                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 


                                                               2221

 1   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

 2   yield.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 4   Rivera, do you continue to yield?

 5                SENATOR RIVERA:   Yes, 

 6   Madam President.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 8   Senator yields.  

 9                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Senator, I think 

10   both of us know all too well that, you know, this 

11   Governor may say we're going to spend X amount of 

12   dollars on A, B, C and D, but then we find out 

13   later on that this Executive has spent the same 

14   dollar three or four times in different areas.

15                What will the Majority do to ensure 

16   that this $32 million is in fact being spent on 

17   things that it should be, and where it should be?  

18                I've said this before -- I think you 

19   and I agree on this -- there are certain things 

20   that just transcend politics.  Right?  Substance 

21   use disorder, mental health transcends politics.  

22   It doesn't matter if you're a Republican or a 

23   Democrat.  I think what we both want is to ensure 

24   that this $32 million doesn't go to put up a new 

25   big sign at the State Fair or an AirTrain 


                                                               2222

 1   someplace or a new roller coaster.  

 2                The point I make, Senator, is how 

 3   can you not only reassure me but reassure all 

 4   New Yorkers, regardless of where they're from, 

 5   that we'll be spending that $32 million where we 

 6   should be?

 7                SENATOR RIVERA:   One moment, 

 8   Madam President.  (Pause.)

 9                Madam President, through you, a 

10   couple of issues.  

11                First, I will underline what 

12   Senator Akshar said.  When it comes to substance 

13   use disorder, the opioid crisis, the overdose 

14   crisis that we have in our entire state, it 

15   impacts the entire state.  And then we have 

16   been -- we have done much to address it in the 

17   state, and we have done it in a bipartisan manner 

18   because we understand that this is something that 

19   impacts the entire state.  I will certainly agree 

20   with him on that.

21                The second set of agreements is that 

22   yes, there have been many times when we have both 

23   criticized, from our different perspectives, the 

24   Governor's -- let's just say penchant for doing 

25   things with state money that try to make him look 


                                                               2223

 1   better and not necessarily address the concerns 

 2   of New Yorkers.

 3                I can tell you on this one that I 

 4   share the concerns that you have.  There's 

 5   actually legislation that I'm putting together to 

 6   make sure that such money can be put in a lockbox 

 7   for future -- in the future.  As of this moment, 

 8   I will tell you that I'm very much looking 

 9   forward to approving this budget, but I am 

10   looking forward to working along with, I don't 

11   know, Governor Hochul, perhaps, on how she feels 

12   that we should deal with this money.

13                But I do agree with you that we need 

14   to have in statute a lockbox for this type of 

15   funding so that it can go for the purposes of 

16   addressing the damage that was made by these -- 

17   that these companies wrought on our communities.

18                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

19   on the bill.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

21   Senator Akshar on the bill.

22                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Senator, I would 

23   look forward to working with you and all of our 

24   colleagues on this particular issue.

25                You know, I think it's incredibly 


                                                               2224

 1   important -- and I know we agree on this -- that 

 2   every dollar of that settlement actually gets out 

 3   into the community, gets into the hands of 

 4   community-based providers.  Because you and I 

 5   both know that those are the men and women who 

 6   are actually doing the work, they're on the front 

 7   lines of this war.  Right?  It is an insidious 

 8   disease.  It is claiming far too many lives, to 

 9   your point, in every single corner of this great 

10   state.  It doesn't matter rich or poor, white or 

11   black.  

12                But it is incumbent upon us as 

13   elected leaders to ensure that nobody steals that 

14   money, nobody uses that money for things that 

15   it's not meant to be.

16                This organization, McKinsey, and so 

17   many others, they are responsible in part for the 

18   death that we have seen.  And I just think it's 

19   the -- it is the collective wisdom of this great 

20   house to ensure that they pay the point and the 

21   monies that we're getting from this settlement 

22   are going to the people who need it.

23                So, you know, despite how I may vote 

24   on this particular budget bill, I want the 

25   Senator to know that I stand ready, as do my 


                                                               2225

 1   colleagues, to work with our colleagues across 

 2   the aisle to ensure that we're actually getting 

 3   the money where it belongs.  

 4                Thank you, Madam President.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 6   Borrello.

 7                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you, 

 8   Madam President.  

 9                I rise to speak on the HMH Article 

10   VII Part AA modifications to Kendra's Law.  And 

11   if I could go on the bill for a moment.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

13   Borrello on the bill.

14                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you, 

15   Madam President.

16                So Kendra's Law is something that 

17   was developed several years ago, and it basically 

18   allows those with mental health issues that could 

19   be a danger to public safety to be involuntarily 

20   detained.  It was championed by my predecessor, 

21   Senator Cathy Young, and it by all accounts has 

22   saved the lives of many in New York State that 

23   have been threatened by those folks who have 

24   untreated mental health issues.

25                But this is particularly personal 


                                                               2226

 1   for me, because Kendra's Law is actually named 

 2   after Kendra Webdale, who was from my hometown of 

 3   Fredonia, who I knew, I grew up with, went to 

 4   school with.  Kendra was a beautiful, sweet 

 5   person.  And in 1999, January of 1999, she was in 

 6   New York City on assignment from Buffalo and was 

 7   tragically pushed in front of a subway train by a 

 8   29-year-old man who had a decade-long record of 

 9   mental health issues.

10                Her life was snatched away.  And I 

11   remember specifically reading about this, and 

12   when he was asked why did he do it, his response 

13   was it was just her time to die.

14                It's sad, but out of that tragedy 

15   came Kendra's Law.  And now the Executive Budget 

16   has tried to strengthen Kendra's Law.  So I was 

17   disheartened to see that two I think important 

18   subparts of Part AA have been excluded in this 

19   budget.

20                Subpart B includes new language that 

21   provides for the issuance and extension of an 

22   assisted outpatient treatment order without 

23   direct examination by a physician if the 

24   individual is not able to be reached, has had an 

25   AOT order expire in the last six months or has 


                                                               2227

 1   concurrently experienced a substantial increase 

 2   in symptoms or a loss of function.

 3                These are people that have gone into 

 4   a further crisis, which we have seen time and 

 5   time again as a result of this pandemic.

 6                Part C -- and again, this is 

 7   excluded now -- Part C, which is also excluded, 

 8   includes new language for the likelihood to 

 9   result in serious harm, considering risk posed to 

10   the individual in question by lack of basic 

11   needs -- food, clothing, shelter, personal 

12   safety.

13                Those folks can no longer be 

14   detained.  It's my understanding that the 

15   gentleman that pushed Kendra Webdale in front of 

16   that train had those type of issues.

17                So, Madam President, I would like to 

18   ask the sponsor a question.  So would the sponsor 

19   yield for a question.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

21   Rivera, do you --

22                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

23   I believe this is going to be handled by 

24   Senator Brouk.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Oh, I 


                                                               2228

 1   apologize.  

 2                Senator Brouk, do you yield?  

 3                SENATOR BROUK:   Yes.

 4                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Yes.  Thank you, 

 5   Senator Brouk.  Good to see you.  

 6                So you just heard my explanation on 

 7   Kendra's Law and the strengthening of it and the 

 8   fact that this has now been watered down in this 

 9   budget, I think with some potentially serious 

10   consequences.  

11                So my question for you is in Part 

12   AA, as I mentioned, of the HMH Article VII, where 

13   you've omitted two very critical parts of this 

14   strengthening of Kendra's Law, do you have any 

15   concerns that the omission of this language is 

16   now going to lead to the underusage of crisis 

17   support centers?  

18                SENATOR BROUK:   First of all, I 

19   want to say I share -- the story that was shared 

20   is always one that kind of punches you in the 

21   gut.  And being from Western New York, I know a 

22   lot of folks in Fredonia.

23                You know, I think what's really 

24   important here is that we focus on Part AA as a 

25   whole.  Because what we have done with this new 


                                                               2229

 1   version of Part AA is, again, changing how we 

 2   think about delivering crisis care.  

 3                And so I would put that Kendra's Law 

 4   is a strong law and should stay the way it was 

 5   intended.  It was never intended to potentially 

 6   creep on folks' civil rights of really massively 

 7   broadening what we accounted for as a part of 

 8   that law and a part of involuntary commitment.

 9                Instead, what we have done is we 

10   have created a system through these crisis 

11   stabilization centers in which folks will have 

12   more accessible care, they will understand where 

13   they may choose to go.  And let's remember that 

14   as Kendra's Law still stands, if someone does 

15   meet the criteria within that law, they can be 

16   still committed in that way and go through that 

17   process.

18                But to broaden that to the level at 

19   which was presented in the Executive proposal 

20   really infringes on folks' civil rights and is in 

21   fact the opposite of the direction that, by and 

22   large, mental health providers see mental health 

23   going.

24                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you.  

25                Madam President, on the bill.


                                                               2230

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 2   Borrello on the bill.

 3                SENATOR BORRELLO:   First of all, 

 4   Senator Brouk, thank you very much.  It was 

 5   short, just one question for you, so I appreciate 

 6   your time.

 7                The Senator talked about civil 

 8   rights and infringing on people's civil rights.  

 9   Well, Kendra Webdale's civil rights were taken 

10   away from her by someone who should not have been 

11   on the street.

12                And now we're talking about COVID.  

13   And it's indisputable that we have seen a 

14   tremendous and dramatic rise in mental health 

15   issues.  Many have resulted in violence, needless 

16   violence.  So the timing of the strengthening of 

17   Kendra's Law couldn't have been better.  And now 

18   we're pulling that back.  But unfortunately, this 

19   is kind of the pattern we're seeing recently.  

20   Instead of trying to take preventative measures 

21   to ensure that dangerous people are removed from 

22   our streets, we're going the opposite way.

23                We saw that with the marijuana bill 

24   that we passed.  We've taken away all the 

25   probable cause.  If someone is even driving 


                                                               2231

 1   erratically and gets pulled over and there's the 

 2   smell of marijuana in the car, still no probable 

 3   cause.  There actually has to be an accident with 

 4   injury in order for the police to take action.  

 5                And that's essentially what we're 

 6   doing here.  We're saying someone who's had  a 

 7   crisis, someone who's -- because of COVID, 

 8   because of anything, because of the isolation 

 9   that they have felt in this, is now seeing really 

10   a crisis come upon them like they have never had 

11   before -- unless they do something violent, we're 

12   not going to be able to take them and get them 

13   the treatment that they need.

14                So it's a disturbing pattern that 

15   I'm seeing, that the Majority is advancing 

16   actions and bills that ultimately are going to 

17   allow for a tragedy first before an action can be 

18   taken.

19                And unfortunately, with the 

20   watering-down of these strengthenings of 

21   Kendra's Law, we might see more tragedy in the 

22   wake of that.  So, Madam President, I also will 

23   be down on this part of the bill, for this and 

24   many other reasons.  

25                Thank you.


                                                               2232

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 2   O'Mara.

 3                SENATOR O'MARA:   Yes, thank you, 

 4   Madam President.  I have a few questions on this 

 5   budget bill, and then I will have some questions 

 6   I believe for Chairwoman Krueger on the overall 

 7   financial plan that is on our desks.

 8                Initially -- I'm not sure who this 

 9   would be addressed to, but if the Senator would 

10   yield with regards to the opioid settlement funds 

11   that we have here from the McKinsey settlement.  

12                Are there any other anticipated 

13   settlements from other sources in regards to 

14   opioids that the state is involved in or 

15   expecting?  

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

17   O'Mara, can you hold on one minute so we can 

18   confer?

19                SENATOR O'MARA:   Sure.

20                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

21   I believe Senator Rivera will be answering these 

22   questions.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

24   Senator Rivera, do you yield?  

25                SENATOR RIVERA:   I do, Madam 


                                                               2233

 1   President, if Senator O'Mara could repeat his 

 2   question, through you.

 3                (Laughter.)

 4                SENATOR O'MARA:   Yes.  

 5                Senator Rivera, we discussed a 

 6   little bit about the McKinsey settlement of 

 7   $32 million for the -- in regards to the opioid 

 8   crisis.  Is the state expecting any further 

 9   settlements from other sources in regards to the 

10   opioid crisis, engaged in any litigation further, 

11   expecting more funds to come in at a later time?  

12                SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

13   Madam President, I believe that is a question 

14   more appropriate for the Attorney General.  But I 

15   do believe that such conversations are happening 

16   in the Attorney General's office -- for this 

17   state and other states -- with different 

18   companies.

19                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the sponsor 

20   will continue to yield.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

22   Rivera, do you continue to yield?  

23                SENATOR RIVERA:   I do, 

24   Madam President.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 


                                                               2234

 1   Senator yields.

 2                SENATOR O'MARA:   Do you have any 

 3   general expectation of what those amounts could 

 4   possibly be?  

 5                SENATOR RIVERA:   Madam President, 

 6   through you.  As much as possible, I hope.

 7                (Laughter.)

 8                SENATOR O'MARA:   Very well.

 9                If the -- if Senator Rivera will 

10   continue to yield.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

12   Rivera, do you continue to yield?  

13                SENATOR RIVERA:   Yes, 

14   Madam President.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

16   sponsor yields.  

17                SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator, we have 

18   in Part GG here that's been discussed a little 

19   bit a plan and a process with regards to nursing 

20   homes and how they're able to spend their 

21   revenues and where they have to spend them.  We 

22   have discussed for years staffing situations in 

23   our hospitals as well as our nursing homes.  

24                Is there anything in this section GG 

25   or elsewhere in the health portion of the budget 


                                                               2235

 1   that deals specifically with staffing issues or 

 2   staffing ratios, as has been discussed?

 3                SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

 4   Madam President.  The part that you are referring 

 5   to, Senator O'Mara -- that Senator O'Mara is 

 6   referring to, Madam President, through you -- was 

 7   discussed a little bit earlier with Senator 

 8   Borrello, and it does have a specific of 

 9   40 percent of total revenue of residents -- of 

10   resident-facing staffing.  So it does not have a 

11   ratio, Madam President, it does indeed have a 

12   percentage of revenue.  And obviously, as you 

13   understand, if you have a large facility as 

14   opposed to a medium-sized one or a small one, the 

15   numbers are going to be different.  

16                But we do not have a ratio.  It just 

17   refers to percentage of revenue, Madam President.  

18                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

19   Senator.  

20                If -- Madam President, if the 

21   Senator will continue to yield.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

23   Rivera, do you continue to yield?  

24                SENATOR RIVERA:   Yes, 

25   Madam President.


                                                               2236

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 2   sponsor yields.  

 3                SENATOR O'MARA:   Again, with 

 4   regards to the staffing issues, is there anything 

 5   in this health budget, as was included in the 

 6   Senate one-house budget, which would have 

 7   required a 150 percent increase in the minimum 

 8   wage to home care workers?  That's been left out 

 9   of the final budget?  

10                SENATOR RIVERA:   Madam President, 

11   through you, that is correct.

12                SENATOR O'MARA:   Is -- through you, 

13   Madam President, if the sponsor will continue to 

14   yield.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

16   Rivera, do you continue to yield?  

17                SENATOR RIVERA:   I do, 

18   Madam President.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

20   Senator yields.

21                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

22   Madam President.  Is there anywhere in the health 

23   budget where we are taking actions to incentivize 

24   workers to go into the healthcare field, whether 

25   it be nursing, home care in a hospital setting, 


                                                               2237

 1   in a nursing home setting?  What if anything is 

 2   in this budget to incentivize the staffing of 

 3   these facilities?

 4                SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

 5   Madam President.  It is absolutely a concern, a 

 6   great concern of ours, of our conference.  And I 

 7   will specifically say that Senator May has been 

 8   very, very aware, not only -- we're all aware, 

 9   but she has been particularly vocal on the issues 

10   of making sure that we have sufficient staffing 

11   around the state.

12                I will point to you -- through you, 

13   Madam President, that there is money that related 

14   to training that the Governor had cut in his 

15   version of the budget that we have restored.  And 

16   I will also point to money that is federal money 

17   that relates specifically to folks in the human 

18   services, and this would be an additional -- so 

19   federal money that would actually go towards this 

20   purpose.

21                But it is a concern for all of us as 

22   far as how many folks around the state and how 

23   many folks are being trained around the state to 

24   be able to serve in healthcare facilities, not 

25   just nursing homes.


                                                               2238

 1                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

 2   Madam President, will the sponsor continue to 

 3   yield.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 5   Rivera, do you continue to yield?  

 6                SENATOR RIVERA:   Yes, 

 7   Madam President.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 9   Senator yields.

10                SENATOR O'MARA:   So you're 

11   basically saying there is no state funding in 

12   this budget to enhance education or training of 

13   healthcare workers, specifically state funds.

14                SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

15   Madam President, that is not what I am saying.

16                I am saying specifically that we 

17   were -- that we restored state money that 

18   specifically relates to -- as a matter of fact, 

19   if you could tell me the exact program to be able 

20   to point --

21                SENATOR O'MARA:   And the amount, 

22   please.

23                SENATOR RIVERA:   Workforce 

24   recruitment and retention for 23.5 million, thank 

25   you.  Able staff, as always.  But that is state 


                                                               2239

 1   money that we put back into the budget even 

 2   though the Governor cut it at first.

 3                SENATOR O'MARA:   Will the sponsor 

 4   continue to yield.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 6   Rivera, do you continue to yield?  

 7                SENATOR RIVERA:   I do, 

 8   Madam President.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

10   Senator yields.

11                SENATOR O'MARA:   Can you outline 

12   that program as far as how that -- what did you 

13   say, 22 million was going to be spent?  

14                SENATOR RIVERA:   I think it was 

15   twenty -- I will let you finish the question, 

16   sorry.

17                Through you, Madam President, I 

18   believe the amount is 22.5 million.  And as far 

19   as how exactly it is allocated, if you'd give me 

20   a second, I may be able to.

21                Through you, Madam President, this 

22   is Medicaid money that flows through plans.  And 

23   it is used by them to encourage recruitment and 

24   retention.

25                SENATOR O'MARA:   Will the sponsor 


                                                               2240

 1   continue to yield.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 3   Rivera, do you continue to yield?  

 4                SENATOR RIVERA:   I do, 

 5   Madam President.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 7   Senator yields.

 8                SENATOR O'MARA:   Can you explain 

 9   how, if that is Medicaid dollars, how is it 

10   you're attributing it all to state funds?

11                SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

12   Madam President.  So it is 22.5 from the -- from 

13   state money, but that is matched by the federal 

14   government.

15                So but you asked about state -- 

16   well, through you, Madam President, Senator 

17   O'Mara asked about state money.  And that is what 

18   the state money is for.

19                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you for that 

20   clarification.  Moving on to Part D --

21                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

22   O'Mara, are you asking for the sponsor to yield?  

23                SENATOR O'MARA:   Yes, 

24   Madam President, will the sponsor yield.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 


                                                               2241

 1   Rivera, do you continue to yield?  

 2                SENATOR RIVERA:   I do, 

 3   Madam President.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 5   Senator yields.

 6                SENATOR O'MARA:   In Part D, dealing 

 7   with the capital rate to hospitals.  That's, 

 8   according to my reading, being reduced by 

 9   5 percent, for which hospitals will be reimbursed 

10   for capital expenses?  

11                SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

12   Madam President, that is correct.  Part D, in 

13   that part, the Legislature modifies the Executive 

14   proposal to accept the reduction of capital rate 

15   add-on for inpatient hospital expenses by an 

16   additional 5 percent, and we rejected the 

17   discontinuance of the state share indigent care 

18   pool payments to public hospitals.  

19                I will, however, point out, Madam 

20   President, through you, that that is the only -- 

21   in our negotiations, that is the only thing that 

22   ultimately -- we did modify it a little bit, but 

23   it was very close to the Executive proposal.  

24   Much else in the budget, as I will point out 

25   later when I speak on the bill, we were able to 


                                                               2242

 1   get reinstated.  But in that case, although there 

 2   was a small modification, we did accept the 

 3   Executive language.

 4                SENATOR O'MARA:   Will the Senator 

 5   continue to yield.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 7   Rivera, do you continue to yield?  

 8                SENATOR RIVERA:   I do, 

 9   Madam President.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

11   Senator yields.

12                SENATOR O'MARA:   My notes indicate 

13   that that action that we just discussed will -- 

14   is intended to save the state $8.5 million in 

15   this coming up fiscal year?  

16                SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

17   Madam President, if that is what the numbers -- 

18   the numbers that are claimed by the Executive, 

19   then yes, that is correct.

20                SENATOR O'MARA:   Will the sponsor 

21   continue to yield.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

23   Rivera, do you continue to yield?  

24                SENATOR RIVERA:   I will, 

25   Madam President.


                                                               2243

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 2   Senator yields.

 3                SENATOR O'MARA:   In this budget, 

 4   what if any Medicaid cuts are there to hospitals 

 5   other than that 8.5 million we just discussed?  

 6                SENATOR RIVERA:   Through 

 7   Madam President, I will actually point out -- 

 8   before I get to more specifics that the staff 

 9   will help me with -- that most of the cuts that 

10   were actually proposed by the Governor in his 

11   Executive Budget were able to be pushed back.  

12                There are quality pool funds that 

13   were -- that we were able to reestablish, cuts to 

14   public health programs around the state that we 

15   were able to reestablish.

16                So I would say that although we'll 

17   get you some exact numbers following this short 

18   soliloquy, the fact is that we were able to push 

19   back on most of the changes from the second 

20   floor.

21                One second, Madam President.  

22   (Pause.)  Through you, Madam President, sometimes 

23   the -- the letters are quite small, so it takes a 

24   little bit of -- this is where my oldness comes 

25   in.  


                                                               2244

 1                We are able to get back the 

 2   1 percent across-the-board cut that the Governor 

 3   tried to establish in his proposal.  We were able 

 4   to also reestablish the Vital Access Provider 

 5   Assistance {sic} Plan, the VAPAP program.  This 

 6   is -- we were able to get that back.  We were 

 7   also able to get back the discontinuation of the 

 8   public indigent care pool.  And these were some 

 9   of the bigger ones.  And again, the font is 

10   diminutive, so I'm sorry it took me a second to 

11   track it down.

12                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

13   Madam President, if the sponsor will continue to 

14   yield.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

16   Rivera, do you continue to yield?  

17                SENATOR RIVERA:   I certainly will, 

18   Madam President.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

20   Senator yields.

21                SENATOR O'MARA:   That was not 

22   responsive to the question I asked, which is what 

23   Medicaid cuts are there in this budget to 

24   hospitals.

25                SENATOR RIVERA:   One second, 


                                                               2245

 1   Madam President.  (Pause.)

 2                Madam President, through you.  

 3   Again, with the small print.  We were -- one of 

 4   them you already spoke about -- or I should say 

 5   Senator O'Mara already spoke about, 

 6   Madam President, on the reducing hospital capital 

 7   rate add-on.  That was something that we did 

 8   accept.  

 9                And also there was a discontinuation 

10   of the value-based payment readiness funding, 

11   which is related to the DSRIP or Delivery System 

12   Reform Incentive Payment program.  That is 

13   because it is a program that is no longer -- that 

14   has already expired, that funding was also 

15   discontinued, and we accepted that one.

16                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

17   Madam President, if the Senator will continue to 

18   yield.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

20   Rivera, do you continue to yield?  

21                SENATOR RIVERA:   Yes, 

22   Madam President.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

24   Senator yields.

25                SENATOR O'MARA:   Does this -- this 


                                                               2246

 1   budget extends the Medicaid global cap.  For how 

 2   long?  

 3                SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

 4   Madam President, I am very glad that you asked 

 5   about that.  I was going to speak about it a 

 6   little bit later, but I guess I'll take the 

 7   opportunity now.  

 8                There is a very robust conversation 

 9   about the Medicaid global cap.  There's many of 

10   us who believe it should no longer exist.  But as 

11   I stated earlier, Madam President, one can -- you 

12   know, we have to accept that we don't get 

13   everything that we want.

14                What we did is we did extend the 

15   Medicaid global cap, but there is a requirement 

16   that we injected into the language, 

17   Madam President, that details quarterly updates 

18   to the Legislature on Medicaid utilization and 

19   spending.

20                Even though there are requirements 

21   that already exist, Madam President, it's 

22   unfortunate that sometimes the Department of 

23   Health does not give us these reports.  We made 

24   certain that the language currently that we've 

25   injected into the budget will give us the ability 


                                                               2247

 1   to have this information.  Because as many of us 

 2   believe that this is something that should be 

 3   discontinued or, at the very least, recalculated, 

 4   we will have the ability, with this quarterly 

 5   information, to be able to make that assessment, 

 6   and we hope to be able to do so.

 7                SENATOR O'MARA:   Will the sponsor 

 8   continue to yield?

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

10   Rivera, do you continue to yield?

11                SENATOR RIVERA:   Yes, Madam 

12   President.  

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

14   Senator yields.

15                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

16   Senator.

17                The Executive Budget that was 

18   proposed had a transfer of over $455 million of 

19   Medicaid funds to the General Fund.  Can you tell 

20   us how that ended up in your final version here?  

21                SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

22   Madam President.  Is it -- I need to print these 

23   a little bit bigger, so there is that.  But I 

24   will tell you that ultimately what we were -- 

25   what we ultimately accepted was a transfer of 


                                                               2248

 1   310, as opposed to the initial 455 which was 

 2   proposed.

 3                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the Senator 

 4   will continue to yield.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 6   Rivera, do you continue to yield?  

 7                SENATOR RIVERA:   Yes, 

 8   Madam President.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

10   Senator yields.

11                SENATOR O'MARA:   So this budget 

12   that will be enacted still transfers -- 

13   310 million, is that what you said?  

14                SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

15   Madam President, 310,430,000, to be exact.

16                SENATOR O'MARA:   Okay.  So that 

17   amount of Medicaid funding that could otherwise 

18   go to our healthcare system, to the providers, to 

19   the workers, that's just being transferred into 

20   the General Fund.  

21                Is there any explanation as to -- or 

22   direction on how that $310 million is to be spent 

23   through the General Fund?

24                SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

25   Madam President, this is another -- what the 


                                                               2249

 1   Senator is pointing out is another victim of 

 2   negotiations.  When one comes into the room and 

 3   the second floor says, We're going to take 455, 

 4   and we're like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, 

 5   you're not, let's figure this out.  And the 

 6   conversations led us back to 310.  

 7                Now, I agree with you, I agree with 

 8   Senator O'Mara -- through you, Madam President -- 

 9   that certainly as much of this money needs to be 

10   kept in the Medicaid system and to serve 

11   patients, to serve providers, to serve different 

12   entities that are Medicaid-related -- to the 

13   workers as well -- unfortunately, this is what we 

14   ultimately wound up with.  

15                But I do think it is not only a much 

16   better amount than 455, but also there is plenty 

17   of other positive things that I will be pointing 

18   out shortly as far as what we were able to 

19   achieve here.

20                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

21   Madam President.  I have a question on Part Z 

22   regarding mental health, so I'm not sure if that 

23   would be Senator Broke or --

24                SENATOR RIVERA:   Brouk.

25                SENATOR O'MARA:   Brouk, pardon me. 


                                                               2250

 1                SENATOR GIANARIS:   We'll go back to 

 2   Senator Brouk.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 4   Brouk, do you yield?

 5                SENATOR BROUK:   Yes, 

 6   Madam President.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 8   Senator yields.  

 9                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

10   Senator.  

11                With regards to Part Z, it talks 

12   about creating a schedule of fees to cover the 

13   costs of certification of Office of Mental 

14   Health-regulated facilities.  Could you explain 

15   what that schedule of fees is, what those fees 

16   are expected to be, and how much funding will be 

17   generated from that and what the use of those 

18   funds will be.

19                SENATOR BROUK:   To answer that 

20   question, through you, Madam President, the range 

21   of fees would go from one to three thousand 

22   dollars.  And from -- DOH has estimated $300,000. 

23                SENATOR O'MARA:   What will that be 

24   utilized for?  

25                SENATOR BROUK:   That is something, 


                                                               2251

 1   through you, Madam President, that would be set 

 2   by DOH.

 3                SENATOR O'MARA:   Excuse me?

 4                SENATOR BROUK:   That is something 

 5   that would be set forth by OMH, to clarify my 

 6   earlier comment.

 7                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the Senator 

 8   will continue to yield.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

10   Brouk, do you continue to yield?  

11                SENATOR BROUK:   Yes.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

13   Senator yields.

14                SENATOR O'MARA:   My reading of it 

15   is that those funds to be generated from that 

16   will go directly to the General Fund and not into 

17   any specific fund.  So that will be, I guess, 

18   spending at the discretion of the Executive and 

19   not the Legislature, even though we're 

20   authorizing these fees.  

21                The Assembly, in their one-house, 

22   had language that would set up a specific fund 

23   for the use of those for mental health purposes.  

24   Why is -- why are we just having it out there as 

25   going into the General Fund with no direction of 


                                                               2252

 1   the use of those funds?  

 2                SENATOR BROUK:   Can you clarify the 

 3   specific question?

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Excuse me, 

 5   Senator O'Mara.  Can you speak into the mic?  

 6   Thank you.

 7                SENATOR O'MARA:   Yes.  With regards 

 8   to the funds being raised by these fees in Part 

 9   Z, the Assembly had in their one-house a 

10   specification, a directive of how those funds 

11   were to be utilized.  There's no such language in 

12   this enacted budget.  

13                So are these funds just going to be 

14   spent at the direction of the Executive without 

15   legislative input?

16                SENATOR BROUK:   Through you, 

17   Madam President.  That was dropped in 

18   negotiations, and that funding will be used per 

19   OMH.

20                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

21   Madam President.  That's all the questions I have 

22   for the Senator.

23                I have some questions on the 

24   financial plan that is on our desks for I believe 

25   Chairwoman Krueger, if --


                                                               2253

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 2   Gianaris.

 3                SENATOR GIANARIS:   That is correct, 

 4   Madam President.  Senator Krueger will address 

 5   that.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 7   Krueger, do you yield?  

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Well, what I'd 

 9   like to do, if Senator O'Mara doesn't mind, is 

10   speak briefly on the bill and then shift to the 

11   financial plan.  Because I think there are no 

12   more questions on this actual bill, is that 

13   correct?  

14                SENATOR O'MARA:   That's correct.

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Do you mind, 

16   then, if I do that?

17                SENATOR O'MARA:   No, that is fine.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

19   Krueger on the bill.

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So briefly on the 

21   bill, Senator.  Thank you.

22                So I listened carefully to the 

23   debate, and I want to thank so much all of my 

24   colleagues for raising issues and answering 

25   issues.  But I was particularly concerned that 


                                                               2254

 1   people who might be listening might come away 

 2   thinking we cut funds for mental health services 

 3   in New York State in our budget.  And I want to 

 4   emphasize how that is not true.  

 5                We did agree to some closings of 

 6   underutilized residential sites.  And of course 

 7   that is not the only model for mental health 

 8   services.  In fact, less and less mental health 

 9   services are provided in a residential setting, 

10   because it's actually not needed and not 

11   effective.

12                For some people it is, and we always 

13   have to make sure we have adequate.  But we took 

14   that money and we reinvested it.  So we're 

15   talking about 22 million in savings from closing 

16   some sites.  But our reinvestment just in mental 

17   health was 21.6 million, so pretty much the exact 

18   amount.  

19                Plus we did so much more for mental 

20   health services, and we just don't necessarily 

21   add it up that way.  You know, so we did provide 

22   maternal depression expansion services.  Critical 

23   issue, because when mom's depressed, 

24   pediatricians tell us it's the number-one factor 

25   for problems for that child for the first five 


                                                               2255

 1   years of their life, if not their entire life.  

 2   So really getting into the weeds on how you 

 3   address maternal depression is a crucial mental 

 4   health service.

 5                We expanded telemedicine, which has 

 6   an impact on all of us in healthcare, but 

 7   particularly in underserved areas of the state 

 8   where there aren't psychiatric specialists, there 

 9   aren't children's psychiatrists.  Expansion of 

10   telemedicine has been something the healthcare 

11   experts have been begging us for for years, and 

12   we're doing that also in this budget.

13                We're also focusing on changing 

14   insurance laws to make sure that there are true 

15   mental health parity standards.  Because we've 

16   talked mental health parity for forever, but when 

17   you have insurance and it's not covering your 

18   mental healthcare services the way it's supposed 

19   to be, that's not parity, and you're not going to 

20   get that mental healthcare service.  So that 

21   doesn't need to be a state budget item.  We want 

22   to make sure the insurance we're paying for is 

23   covering mental health services as the law 

24   provides.

25                And then there were some questions 


                                                               2256

 1   about violence and mental health.  And of course 

 2   a violent attack on anyone can be extremely 

 3   disturbing.  But I just want to, for the record, 

 4   make clear mental health issues can affect all of 

 5   us, any of us, at any point in our lives.  But 

 6   only 3 to 5 percent of people who suffer mental 

 7   illness ever act out in a violent way.

 8                So the last thing I would want is 

 9   the floor of the New York State Senate to be 

10   sending out a message that we think everyone 

11   suffering mental illness is violent and needs to 

12   be collected up by the police before they act 

13   again, because all that will do is discourage 

14   people from going for mental health services.  

15   And that's just the opposite of what all 63 of us 

16   want.  We want people to get the healthcare they 

17   need.  We want to make sure that they don't get 

18   so ill that they might find themselves delusional 

19   enough to lash out in a violent way.  Our goal is 

20   prevention, but that means we have to be very, 

21   very, very, very careful about stigma.

22                And then finally, only because it 

23   surprised me, when the answer to the question 

24   about how much we were investing in expansion of 

25   home care and education and workforce paths for 


                                                               2257

 1   people in health and home care, my colleague 

 2   Senator Gustavo Rivera talked about new federal 

 3   money coming in.  And the answer was:  We're not 

 4   spending state money?

 5                If we're getting this much federal 

 6   money, why would we want to ask New Yorkers to 

 7   spend state taxpayer money?  President Biden just 

 8   four days ago, I believe, announced a jobs plan 

 9   with a commitment of $400 billion, with a B, 

10   towards expansion of home healthcare and nursing 

11   services, both training, support for people to go 

12   into the field, expansion up a ladder in the 

13   field, and of course better pay.

14                And I'm told that the estimate for 

15   New York State is $1.9 billion out of the 

16   400 billion.  So do I want that money now?  Yes.  

17   And we all do.  But do I think New York State 

18   should also duplicate and put its own money in 

19   when you have finally, finally, so much money 

20   coming from the federal government for this 

21   specific purpose?  No, I wouldn't know how to go 

22   home and explain to people why we were investing 

23   in the one thing we're finally getting a huge 

24   jump in from the federal government.  

25                So Madam President, I have no 


                                                               2258

 1   problem voting for this bill today, but I really 

 2   felt, after listening to the discussion and the 

 3   debate, that there were a few things that just 

 4   might have gotten lost, which sometimes happen 

 5   when people are focused on individual very 

 6   specific questions.

 7                Thank you, Madam President.  And now 

 8   I am delighted to answer questions about other 

 9   topics.

10                SENATOR O'MARA:   Excellent.  Thank 

11   you, Senator Krueger.

12                Madam President, if Senator Krueger 

13   would yield for a question.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

15   Krueger, do you yield?  

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do indeed.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

18   Senator yields.  

19                SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator Krueger, I 

20   have on my desk a several-page document entitled 

21   "Preliminary Enacted Budget Financial Plan 

22   Overview."  Do I take it by the description 

23   "preliminary" that this is not the final 

24   financial plan overview?

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   You know what, I 


                                                               2259

 1   also got two versions today.  The first one was 

 2   preliminary, and the second one was supposed to 

 3   be final.  But I'm looking at the second one, and 

 4   I'm pretty sure even though it does say 

 5   "preliminary," that it is final.  I'm happy to 

 6   give you a copy of the second one I got, to make 

 7   sure you're working off the same one.  But I 

 8   think we just have an error in not changing that 

 9   to "final."

10                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you for that 

11   clarification.  If the Senator will continue to 

12   yield.

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

15   Senator yields.

16                SENATOR O'MARA:   To this point in 

17   our budget process we have passed one budget 

18   bill, the debt service bill.  We have four budget 

19   bills on our calendar right now, the first of 

20   which we're debating was the health and mental 

21   hygiene bill.  Three others to go after this.  

22                How many more budget bills are we 

23   expecting to come, and what is the status of 

24   those bills being finalized?

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Five more to go.  


                                                               2260

 1   Five are in print, three are almost ready to go.  

 2   And we'll clearly need messages of necessity, and 

 3   we are hoping to get out of here today, 

 4   completing all of those.  

 5                SENATOR O'MARA:   Madam President, 

 6   will the sponsor continue to yield.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 8   Krueger, do you yield?  

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

11   Senator yields.

12                SENATOR O'MARA:   So as we commence 

13   voting on these bills, we have yet to see three 

14   of those remaining bills to be even put in print 

15   yet for us to look at.

16                The two that were recently put in 

17   print, in addition to these four, frankly we have 

18   not seen yet because I think they went to print 

19   today.  And we will need to certainly brief those 

20   and review those.  That will take our conference 

21   some time to do.  And then yet the three 

22   remaining ones that we don't know of.

23                But on the financial plan that we 

24   have before us, what is the overall spending 

25   being proposed in this year's budget?


                                                               2261

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   State operating 

 2   funds disbursement, 112 billion -- 112.220 

 3   billion.

 4                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the Senator 

 5   will continue to yield.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 7   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, of course.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

10   Senator yields.

11                SENATOR O'MARA:   So am I correct in 

12   reading that on the state operating funds it's an 

13   8.1 percent increase over last year, for a total 

14   of 8 billion more, 8 billion more spending?

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Approximately, 

16   yes, sir.  

17                SENATOR O'MARA:   And the overall -- 

18   through you, Madam President, if the Senator will 

19   continue to yield.

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will, 

21   Madam President.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

23   Senator continues to yield.

24                SENATOR O'MARA:   I am reading on 

25   the financial plan, on the All Funds, that the 


                                                               2262

 1   All Funds total budget this year that we're 

 2   enacting is $217 billion, 623 million, which is a 

 3   $23 billion increase in overall spending from 

 4   year to year.  Is that correct?

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   That's correct.

 6                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the sponsor 

 7   will continue to yield.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 9   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.  

11                And just to clarify, as it's written 

12   in the bottom footnote, some of that is for the 

13   outyears but is being accounted for this year.  

14                And I want to apologize to myself 

15   and Senator O'Mara, this is the smallest print in 

16   history.  So I'm not even going to assume that we 

17   can read what we're seeing.

18                SENATOR O'MARA:   Okay.  On that 

19   point, then, how much of that $23 billion 

20   increase is not being spent in this fiscal year?

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Approximately 

22   $5 billion is for the outyears.

23                SENATOR O'MARA:   So through you, 

24   Madam President, if the Senator will continue to 

25   yield.


                                                               2263

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

 2   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 5   Senator yields.

 6                SENATOR O'MARA:   So therefore, 

 7   then, we have approximately an $18 billion 

 8   increase in spending year over year in this 

 9   budget.

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   That sounds 

11   right.  Through you, Madam President.

12                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the Senator 

13   will continue to yield.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

15   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Yes, the 

18   Senator yields.

19                SENATOR O'MARA:   It says here the 

20   capital budget, and the capital budget is not -- 

21   is a portion of the budget that we have yet to 

22   see.  I'm not sure if that's one of the ones in 

23   print recently or yet to come.  But it says 

24   there's a 34 percent increase from year to year 

25   in capital spending.  


                                                               2264

 1                Can you explain why we have such an 

 2   increase in capital spending of 34 percent?  And 

 3   it says this includes off-budget capital.  And 

 4   what does that mean or include?

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   The 3 billion for 

 6   the Green Mother Nature Bond Act would be the 

 7   largest amount off-budget.  

 8                I don't know if we have -- just give 

 9   me one more minute, Senator.  

10                SENATOR O'MARA:   Sure.

11                (Pause.)

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

13   Madam President, I'm going to ask the Senator 

14   which way he'd like me to approach this.  He 

15   could wait and we can find that, because we 

16   didn't expect we were doing the labor bill right 

17   now, so we don't necessarily have the right 

18   materials with us.  Or we can continue and then 

19   come back to capital either now or when we get to 

20   that bill.  So really three choices.

21                SENATOR O'MARA:   Let's move on and 

22   handle that when we get to the capital portion of 

23   the budget, if and when that gets printed and 

24   provided to us.

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Absolutely.  


                                                               2265

 1   Thank you, Mr. -- you're not Mr. Chair.  

 2   Mr. Senator.

 3                Through you, Madam President, if the 

 4   questioner would like to continue with other 

 5   questions.

 6                SENATOR O'MARA:   Yes, I would.  

 7   Thank you.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 9   O'Mara, are you asking --

10                SENATOR O'MARA:   Will 

11   Senator Krueger continue to yield.

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

14   Krueger yields.

15                SENATOR O'MARA:   Of the 23 billion 

16   increase in the budget from year to year, how 

17   much of that is federal funding being received 

18   through the American Rescue Plan?

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Madam President, 

20   approximately 8 billion.

21                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

22   Madam President, if the sponsor will continue to 

23   yield.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

25   Krueger, do you continue to yield?


                                                               2266

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do.

 2                SENATOR O'MARA:   So, Senator, if my 

 3   math is correct, then, we have approximately a 

 4   $15 billion increase in state spending included 

 5   in this budget?

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 7   Madam President.  So are we talking about the 

 8   numbers where we already subtracted 5 billion and 

 9   then we're working our way down?  Or are we 

10   talking not subtracting the 5 billion that was 

11   for the outyears?

12                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

13   Madam President, I'm not sure that makes a 

14   difference.  But if we already subtracted 5 from 

15   the 23 billion to get us to 18 billion, how much 

16   of that 18 billion is federal money and how much 

17   is state money?

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you --

19                SENATOR O'MARA:   Let -- let me 

20   clarify the discussion here.  There's more than 

21   one source of federal funds that have come in.  

22   So let me just clarify it rather than stating the 

23   American Rescue Plan, the CARES Act and 

24   everything else that brought federal money in. 

25                Of this $18 billion increase from 


                                                               2267

 1   year to year in this budget proposal, how much of 

 2   that is coming from the federal government and 

 3   how much of that is coming from the taxpayers of 

 4   the State of New York?

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.

 6                There was 8 percent growth in the 

 7   state spending or planned spending between last 

 8   year and this year.  And so that would bring us 

 9   from last year -- one second.  

10                So we went from the 103.8 to 112.2.  

11   So it's about 9 million in additional state 

12   funds, 8.5 billion.

13                SENATOR O'MARA:   About 8.5 billion 

14   in increased state revenue from state taxes?

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Well, state 

16   spending.  Not necessarily state revenue, but --

17                SENATOR O'MARA:   Okay.  Then to 

18   make up that --  

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

20   O'Mara, are you asking if the sponsor will 

21   continue to yield?  

22                SENATOR O'MARA:   Will the sponsor 

23   continue to yield.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

25   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  


                                                               2268

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Absolutely.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 3   Senator yields.

 4                SENATOR O'MARA:   Of the increase in 

 5   state revenues of that $8.5 billion, how much of 

 6   that is related to new taxes being imposed?  

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   A net 3.5 billion 

 8   of additional tax revenue towards that.

 9                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the sponsor 

10   will continue to yield.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

12   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

15   Senator yields.

16                SENATOR O'MARA:   If it's a net 

17   $3.5 billion in new taxes -- well, can you 

18   explain how you get to that net?  What are you 

19   subtracting off the total tax increases?  

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So the answer 

21   relates to where we are today versus what the 

22   Executive originally proposed.  And there were a 

23   number of things that we did change.  So we 

24   rejected his stopping the middle-class tax 

25   decrease.  We created a circuit breaker.  And we 


                                                               2269

 1   also reduced taxes for small businesses.

 2                So there was a combination of tax 

 3   decreases and some tax increases.  The two tax 

 4   increases that are in the final budget that were 

 5   not in the Governor's proposal originally was the 

 6   PIT for high earners and an increased percentage 

 7   on the corporate franchise tax.

 8                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

 9   Madam President, if the Senator will continue to 

10   yield.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

12   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

15   Senator yields.

16                SENATOR O'MARA:   How much is being 

17   attributed in new revenues from the personal 

18   income tax increases?

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   For this fiscal 

20   year, 2.753 billion.

21                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the sponsor 

22   will continue to yield.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Does the 

24   Senator continue to yield?  

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.


                                                               2270

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 2   Senator yields.

 3                SENATOR O'MARA:   How much in the 

 4   next fiscal year?

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   3.25 billion.

 6                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the sponsor 

 7   will continue to yield.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 9   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

12   Senator yields.

13                SENATOR O'MARA:   Are these 

14   increased personal income tax rates permanent, or 

15   do they sunset?

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   They sunset after 

17   2027.

18                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

19   Madam President, if the sponsor will continue to 

20   yield.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

22   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

25   Senator yields.


                                                               2271

 1                SENATOR O'MARA:   If enacted, these 

 2   tax increases, will these represent the largest 

 3   tax increase in New York State history?

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I feel like 

 5   you've stumped us, Senator O'Mara.  We're 

 6   thinking maybe '08-'09 were greater tax 

 7   increases, but we're not sure.  

 8                We think that the '08-'09 increases 

 9   were larger.  But I'm happy to have another 

10   Finance staff go get that answer, and as soon as 

11   I learn it I will share it with you.

12                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

13   Madam President, if the Senator will continue to 

14   yield.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

16   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Absolutely.  

18   Absolutely.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

20   Senator yields.

21                SENATOR O'MARA:   I don't need that 

22   exact statistic from year to year.  But it's safe 

23   to say this is either the largest, in this budget 

24   this year, or the budget in '08-'09, which was 

25   when the Democratic majority held the house for 


                                                               2272

 1   two years and had then either the first or 

 2   second-largest increase in taxes in state history 

 3   then, and again this year.

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   That probably is 

 5   accurate.  It would always be interesting to see 

 6   whether in history, as a proportion of the total 

 7   budget, what the tax played out as.

 8                I was always taught that in this 

 9   town Democrats, when they needed to spend, taxed 

10   to raise revenue, and Republicans borrowed to 

11   spend.  I think of the two choices I would prefer 

12   the tax and spend rather than the grow the 

13   deficit and spend.  That's just me.

14                And if I might, Madam President, 

15   just to clarify, this is a tax on people whose 

16   incomes start at a million dollars a year for a 

17   single person, $2 million a year for a couple, 

18   and then continue to go up when you hit the 

19   5 million mark and then when you hit the 

20   10 million mark.

21                So this is not a tax increase on the 

22   vast, vast majority of New Yorkers.  It's a 

23   relatively small, approximately 50,000 taxpayers 

24   who were on the wealthiest end of the scale even 

25   during the pandemic and economic meltdown.  So I 


                                                               2273

 1   think it's an interesting question of what's 

 2   biggest when, but it's also who are you taxing.

 3                Through you, Madam President, I'm 

 4   happy to turn it back to Senator O'Mara.

 5                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the Senator 

 6   will continue to yield.

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 8                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

 9   if I may --

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

11   Gianaris.

12                SENATOR GIANARIS:  Thank you.  

13                Just for maintaining order as we get 

14   through the day, we're happy to give Senator 

15   O'Mara some leeway to talk broadly about the 

16   spending plan, but many of the questions he's 

17   asking are very specific to bills that will be 

18   coming up later today, so I would ask that maybe 

19   those questions get held to the bill that they 

20   are more germane to.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

22   Senator Gianaris.

23                SENATOR O'MARA:   Madam President, 

24   just on the bill for a moment, I guess.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 


                                                               2274

 1   O'Mara on the bill.

 2                SENATOR O'MARA:   We're being asked 

 3   to vote on budget bills that have been in print 

 4   for a couple of days, but there's five more bills 

 5   to come that we have yet to see.  

 6                We have this financial plan outline 

 7   that I guess presumes what is going to be in 

 8   those other five budget bills.  However, not 

 9   knowing that, we don't know exactly what we're 

10   voting on piece by piece without everything 

11   having been in print.  

12                If I may ask the Senator to yield.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

14   Krueger, do you continue to yield with questions 

15   related to the bill before the house?  

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Sure.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

18   Senator yields.

19                SENATOR O'MARA:   The question 

20   relates to the budget as a whole before the 

21   house.

22                In the remaining budget bills that 

23   we have yet to see, Senator Krueger, are there 

24   unresolved issues that are still waiting to be 

25   closed upon?


                                                               2275

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 2   Madam President.  I do not believe there are 

 3   issues that have yet to be closed upon.  

 4                But there is a time frame of when 

 5   something is printed -- excuse me, when something 

 6   is signed off on, edited, and then printed.

 7                So it is our understanding that all 

 8   of the budget bills have been agreed upon 

 9   three-way, are perhaps still in some level of 

10   process, but will be ready to go on the floor, 

11   probably with messages of necessity for the 

12   remaining bills.  In fact, it would have to be 

13   with messages of necessity for the remaining 

14   bills.  And that our goal is to complete our work 

15   before the end of business today.

16                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

17   Senator.

18                That's all I have at this point on 

19   this bill, so I will yield.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

21   Senator O'Mara.

22                Are there any other Senators wishing 

23   to be heard?

24                Seeing and hearing none, debate is 

25   closed.  The Secretary will ring the bell.


                                                               2276

 1                Read the last section.

 2                THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

 3   act shall take effect immediately.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Call the 

 5   roll.

 6                (The Secretary called the roll.)

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

 8   Rivera to explain his vote.

 9                SENATOR RIVERA:   Thank you, 

10   Madam President.

11                I want to thank Senator O'Mara, 

12   Senator Borrello, Senator Akshar for their 

13   questions on this piece of legislation.  This is 

14   -- but I wanted to take some time, 

15   Madam President, if I can, to talk about how 

16   positive I feel about this piece of legislation 

17   and how I think that so much was achieved in the 

18   conversations that we had in the last couple of 

19   weeks.

20                Some of these were mentioned, and so 

21   I will just kind of go through them very quickly.  

22   The Medicaid global cap, which we have talked 

23   about plenty of times, is something that has 

24   outlived its usefulness, Madam President.  We 

25   need to make sure that we reconsider it.  And I 


                                                               2277

 1   believe that we have made some changes that will 

 2   give us the information -- give the Legislature 

 3   the information and the public the information to 

 4   be able to make better decisions about how 

 5   exactly we manage Medicaid spending in this 

 6   state.  I think this has outlived its usefulness 

 7   and should go away.

 8                I will also mention, 

 9   Madam President, that we were able to secure a 

10   delay in a transition to fee-for-service for a 

11   pharmacy benefit, which is a positive thing for 

12   safety net hospitals as well as federally 

13   qualified health centers and Ryan White providers 

14   all across the state.

15                But I will take the moment, Madam 

16   President, to recognize the real legitimate 

17   concerns that pharmacists have all over the state 

18   about this particular delay.  And I can assure 

19   them, Madam President, here on the floor of the 

20   Senate, that we not only take their concerns very 

21   seriously but look forward to working with them 

22   after this budget is passed, as soon as humanly 

23   possible, to address their concerns.  

24                There must be a way that we can 

25   actually have the system work so that we can 


                                                               2278

 1   protect safety nets as well as our local 

 2   pharmacies.

 3                I will also mention that we were 

 4   able to secure money to eliminate the monthly 

 5   premiums for the Essential Plan, and also 

 6   eliminating our cost-sharing for vision and 

 7   dental care.  That's an incredibly important 

 8   achievement, Madam President, and we were able to 

 9   achieve it as well as some cuts that the Governor 

10   had proposed and we were able to push back on, 

11   whether it's the general Public Health Works 

12   program, we talked about some of the quality 

13   pools that we were able to reestablish.  

14                There's also the changes that we 

15   discussed at length about nursing homes and the 

16   fact that we know how important it is to make 

17   certain that every dollar -- particularly since 

18   this is Medicaid money, most of it is Medicaid 

19   money, so it is taxpayer dollars -- to make sure 

20   that that money goes to the care of people and 

21   that we dissuade bad actors from entering into 

22   this business so that they do not think of this 

23   as a business to make money.  It is about taking 

24   care of people, and we are working to make sure 

25   that is the case.


                                                               2279

 1                I'll also recognize that there were 

 2   some changes made to the issues about fiscal 

 3   intermediaries.  I'll particularly point out 

 4   Governor -- not Governor, I'm sorry, but 

 5   Senator Mannion, whose approach to this was the 

 6   right one.  And it was a concern that many of us 

 7   shared, as related to the fiscal intermediaries, 

 8   making sure that there is geographic 

 9   representation as well as representation from 

10   MWBEs and racial and religious minorities.  

11                We want to make sure that these 

12   fiscal intermediaries can serve the people in the 

13   CDPAP program in the best way possible, and some 

14   of the changes that we made in this budget will 

15   make sure that that is the case.

16                I'll also point out that there is 

17   language to establish a demonstration program for 

18   the operation of two facilities to provide care 

19   for medically fragile young adults.  It is 

20   something that our leader has been specifically 

21   focused on, and I'm very thankful that she fought 

22   to make sure that this was in this piece of 

23   legislation.

24                Also we have a version, Madam 

25   President, of something known as the Fourth 


                                                               2280

 1   Trimester Bill, which would make federal money 

 2   accessible to the state to make sure that we can 

 3   provide care for those folks to subsidize 

 4   extended postpartum insurance coverage for 

 5   individuals with incomes of 200 to 233 percent of 

 6   the federal poverty line, for up to a year after 

 7   the birth of their child, recognizing how 

 8   important it is that folks who are in that 

 9   situation can have medical care for themselves 

10   and their newborn child.  

11                All of these were able to be 

12   achieved.  And I want to make sure that I point 

13   out not only the amazing work of the staff who 

14   negotiated this, but above all the fact that our 

15   leader held strong on all of these issues and 

16   many more that we will discuss during the day.  

17                So I thank her for the continued 

18   work that she did, the work of our staff to make 

19   sure that we have a budget we can all be proud 

20   of.  And I'm certainly proud of this piece of 

21   legislation.  

22                Madam President, I vote in the 

23   affirmative.  Thank you.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

25   Rivera to be recorded in the affirmative.


                                                               2281

 1                Senator Brouk to explain her vote.

 2                SENATOR BROUK:   Thank you, 

 3   Madam President.  

 4                I just want to take a moment to 

 5   acknowledge how much we have accomplished, 

 6   especially for mental hygiene and for the mental 

 7   health of New Yorkers.

 8                And I want to thank this Senate and 

 9   I want to thank our leadership for truly leading 

10   the way as the State of New York in shifting how 

11   we think about mental health.  This mental 

12   hygiene budget represents a shift to 

13   patient-centered, equitable, just and 

14   forward-thinking care for millions of New Yorkers 

15   who need it.  

16                On top of things like the Crisis 

17   Stabilization Center, on top of adding funding to 

18   the OMH budget, and on top of adding funding to 

19   much-needed programs for mental health, we have 

20   also insisted that those who have been on the 

21   front lines, essential workers who have kept our 

22   family members and our communities safe, have 

23   stewarded them through substance abuse crises and 

24   mental health crises, that they are finally 

25   getting the wages that they deserve, livable 


                                                               2282

 1   wages, with this 1 percent cost of living 

 2   adjustment that has been withheld for over a 

 3   decade.

 4                We have restored 5 percent cuts, and 

 5   we are investing in the mental health of 

 6   New Yorkers.  And what that tells me is what's 

 7   important to this conference and to this 

 8   leadership.  And what's important is putting 

 9   New Yorkers at the center of our decisions.  

10                It's putting our money where our 

11   mouth is and making sure that we make investments 

12   to make sure that when we get out of this 

13   pandemic, not only will we all be vaccinated and 

14   physically healthy, but that we understand that 

15   there are silent struggles that New Yorkers are 

16   going through -- that we see them and that we 

17   hear them, and that we will invest and give them 

18   the resources that they need.

19                And I am proud, as chair of 

20   Mental Health, to join my colleagues in voting 

21   aye.  Thank you.  

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

23   Brouk to be recorded in the affirmative.

24                Senator Mannion to explain his vote.

25                SENATOR MANNION:   Thank you, 


                                                               2283

 1   Madam President.  

 2                I want to highlight several 

 3   provisions of the budget bills that have 

 4   championed this good public policy that will 

 5   improve the lives of countless New Yorkers.

 6                The first is in regards to reforms 

 7   to 340B pharmacy benefit program.  This budget 

 8   enacts a two-year delay to allow for community 

 9   reinvestment and continued care for indigent 

10   New Yorkers.  This important change will benefit 

11   safety net hospitals like SUNY Upstate in 

12   Syracuse that provide vital preventative care and 

13   treatment for those who cannot afford the cost of 

14   seeing a doctor or the medicines they need.

15                We are also putting forward a plan 

16   regarding fiscal intermediaries or CDPAPs.  These 

17   are providers of personal care services.  Many 

18   New Yorkers, including seniors, those in the IDD 

19   community, and others who are homebound, rely on 

20   CDPAPs for basic care.  What was lacking in a 

21   selection of fiscal intermediaries was regional 

22   diversity.  

23                Under the last bit of these 

24   services, there were no providers headquartered 

25   in Onondaga County.  The consensus to keep this 


                                                               2284

 1   program upstate will mean locals caring for 

 2   locals, and New Yorkers who need these services 

 3   will have them continued, uninterrupted, and with 

 4   the staff they are comfortable and familiar with.

 5                Additionally, there is ethnic 

 6   diversity that was a point of emphasis in making 

 7   this change.  We are now assured that we will 

 8   have people in a certain community being served 

 9   in a diverse manner by individuals who lead 

10   organizations and also the individuals that serve 

11   those people in most need in their communities.  

12   There will be a diversity component that we 

13   believe the first round of cuts missed.  

14                And finally, Madam President, a 

15   quick word on the cost-of-living increases for 

16   OPWDD, OMH, OASAS and the Office for the Aging 

17   providers.  A cost of living adjustment is 

18   10 years overdue, and that time has come to an 

19   end.  No employee should go a decade without a 

20   raise, particularly our front-line healthcare 

21   heroes, and particularly those we entrust with 

22   the care of some of our most vulnerable.  

23                They deserve this raise.  Securing 

24   it was one of my top priorities.  I would like to 

25   thank Senator Rivera, who chairs the Health 


                                                               2285

 1   Committee.  You will not find a stronger advocate 

 2   to make sure that people have quality care.  And 

 3   I'd like to thank Leader Stewart-Cousins for 

 4   entrusting me with a new position and a new 

 5   committee as Disabilities chair.

 6                We are given one life to lead, and 

 7   no life goes without challenges.  Those 

 8   challenges might be caused by discrimination or 

 9   by poverty, homelessness, chance.  But sometimes 

10   it's caused by something we call a disability.  

11   The funding that has been restored to these 

12   programs will cause the potential for victories.  

13   Some people call them miracles.  Those miracles 

14   come in the form of small advances, small gains, 

15   eye contact, being able to take few steps, being 

16   independent to be able to ride in your own 

17   vehicle or take public transportation.

18                We are closer to some of those 

19   miracles, and I'm proud to champion this cause.  

20   I proudly vote in the affirmative.

21                Thank you, Madam President.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

23   Mannion to be recorded in the affirmative.

24                Senator Reichlin-Melnick to explain 

25   hi vote.


                                                               2286

 1                SENATOR REICHLIN-MELNICK:   Thank 

 2   you, Madam President.  And thank you to my 

 3   colleagues for advancing this budget.

 4                So there are a lot of good things in 

 5   this bill.  My colleague Senator Mannion just 

 6   touched on some of them, particularly the 

 7   cost-of-living raises for employees at OPWDD, the 

 8   Office of Mental Health, OASAS and so many of our 

 9   state workforce that desperately needs this.

10                But I want to talk about one thing 

11   in particular that I am happy to see in this 

12   bill, and that is a rejection of the Governor's 

13   misguided, inappropriate proposal to close the 

14   Rockland Children's Psychiatric Center.  This 

15   facility in my district serves some of the 

16   neediest children in our area in the entire 

17   Hudson Valley.  The Executive Budget proposal 

18   would have closed it, would have shipped these 

19   beds down to the Bronx and left families in the 

20   Hudson Valley with no option for their children 

21   except to send them to New York City or all the 

22   way upstate to Utica.  

23                So we fought hard, and I am so happy 

24   to see this final budget reject that closure and 

25   to make sure that we keep the beds there in our 


                                                               2287

 1   community so that when families need treatment 

 2   for their kids, they have that option.  That we 

 3   keep the jobs in our community so that the 

 4   hardworking employees at the Children's Psych 

 5   Center from CSEA and PEF have the option to stay 

 6   in the jobs they love doing and they do well.

 7                So this is a big win.  There are 

 8   some things in this bill we may not like, but 

 9   there are a lot of things to like, and this is 

10   one that is a great victory, I think, for the 

11   people of Rockland County and the entire Lower 

12   Hudson Valley.  I vote yes.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

14   Reichlin-Melnick to be recorded in the 

15   affirmative.

16                Announce the results.

17                THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

18   Calendar 647, those Senators voting in the 

19   negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Boyle, 

20   Felder, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Jordan, Lanza, 

21   Martucci, Mattera, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, 

22   Palumbo, Rath, Ritchie, Serino, Stec, Tedisco and 

23   Weik.

24                Ayes, 42.  Nays, 21.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The bill 


                                                               2288

 1   is passed.

 2                Senator Gianaris.

 3                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Thank you, 

 4   Madam President.  Can we now move on to 

 5   Calendar 648, please.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 7   Secretary will read.

 8                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 9   648, Senate Print 2508C, Senate Budget Bill, an 

10   act to amend Chapter 393 of the Laws of 1994.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

12   O'Mara.

13                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

14   Madam President.  Will the Senator yield.

15                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Yes, 

16   Madam President, Senator Krueger will be 

17   answering questions on this bill.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

19   Krueger, do you yield?  

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do, 

21   Madam President.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

23   Senator yields.

24                SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator Krueger, I 

25   think you'll be pleased that I don't have a whole 


                                                               2289

 1   lot of questions on this bill because it appears 

 2   that more than half of it has been intentionally 

 3   omitted.  

 4                And I guess the question I have for 

 5   you, with all of the omissions in this, are any 

 6   of those omissions that you're aware of being 

 7   placed elsewhere in bills yet to come that we 

 8   have not seen yet?

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Excellent 

10   question.  And the answer is yes.  

11                One of the realities, when you write 

12   a budget with different bills but you put them in 

13   different orders of when you get them done, the 

14   bills that get done first have a lot of unknowns.  

15   So we printed TEDE knowing that it had lots of 

16   missing items, but they're all there somewhere in 

17   the bills coming afterwards.

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Did you say 

19   they're all there somewhere?  

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Oh, no, since we 

21   rejected many of the Governor's proposals 

22   throughout the entire budget.  So they're not all 

23   there.  Thank you for the clarification.

24                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the Senator 

25   will continue to yield.


                                                               2290

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 2   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I will.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 5   Senator yields.

 6                SENATOR O'MARA:   A couple of the 

 7   specific omitted items.  Under Part TT there was 

 8   a Pandemic Recovery and Restart Program, which 

 9   was tax relief for small businesses.  Do you know 

10   where that stands and if that's going to show up 

11   somewhere else?

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   One moment.

13                It is in the revenue bill, Part PP, 

14   when we get to that.

15                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you.

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   You're welcome.

17                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the Senator 

18   will continue to yield.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

20   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I will.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

23   Senator yields.

24                SENATOR O'MARA:   There was a 

25   section on -- I've just got it labeled here as 


                                                               2291

 1   Part B, but transportation safety for workers, 

 2   pedestrians and the public that has been omitted 

 3   that would have created increased fines for 

 4   violations of a variety of safety issues for 

 5   those working on the roads as well as those 

 6   walking along the roads.  

 7                Is that somewhere else or will that 

 8   be handled outside of the budget?  

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   That's intended 

10   to be handled outside the budget, and so it has 

11   been omitted.

12                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the Senator 

13   will continue to yield.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

15   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

18   Senator yields.

19                SENATOR O'MARA:   There was a 

20   variety of Thruway and MTA procurement reforms 

21   that were in the Executive Budget, Parts D and F.  

22   Are those excluded completely, or are they going 

23   to show up somewhere else?

24                SENATOR O'MARA:   So I show that E 

25   was -- involved enhanced penalties for toll 


                                                               2292

 1   violations, and that has been omitted.  And I 

 2   show that F has also been omitted, and that was 

 3   relating to the MTA's procuring authority 

 4   expansion.

 5                SENATOR O'MARA:   Is the Part F 

 6   coming back somewhere else?

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Oh, actually it 

 8   was -- F was procuring authority expansion.  No, 

 9   I believe that was omitted.  But there have been 

10   two extensions allowed for the current rules.

11                SENATOR O'MARA:   Okay.  If the 

12   Senator will continue to yield.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

14   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

17   Senator yields.

18                SENATOR O'MARA:   Part T, under 

19   "Energy."  The LIPA, Long Island Power Authority 

20   restructuring, which was a proposal to allow LIPA 

21   to restructure its debt without exceeding its 

22   current cap, but being able to restructure their 

23   debt and take advantage of more advantageous 

24   rates of today.

25                Has that been completely rejected, 


                                                               2293

 1   or is that authority going to come elsewhere?

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 3   Madam President.  It was omitted from the budget, 

 4   but it's because we have specific language that 

 5   we think is stronger and we intend to do it after 

 6   the budget as a freestanding bill.  

 7                SENATOR O'MARA:   Finally, I 

 8   think -- if the Senator will continue to yield.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

10   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

11                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

13   Senator yields.

14                SENATOR O'MARA:   Part U, which is 

15   the ReCharge NY benefit cap that allows the 

16   Power Authority to grant certain not-for-profits 

17   or small businesses access to low-cost 

18   electricity.  The ReCharge NY program.  The 

19   allocation per business, I believe, as I read it, 

20   has been increased from 100 megawatts per 

21   recipient to 150 megawatts per recipient.  

22   However, the total amount of the program remains 

23   capped at 910 megawatts, without an increase.  

24                How is that going to affect the 

25   number of applicants that will be approved for 


                                                               2294

 1   this program or excluded because of that 

 2   increase?

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Okay, so we did 

 4   omit it from the budget because we want to handle 

 5   it as a freestanding bill, and I believe there is 

 6   said bill.

 7                It's intended for small businesses 

 8   and not-for-profits who suffered so much during 

 9   the pandemic.  So I don't know that there's any 

10   evidence that we would need to go beyond the 

11   current cap, but we can certainly look at that, 

12   since doing it outside the budget gives you and I 

13   and the rest of us in the Senate a time to do a 

14   thorough evaluation of what we think the needs 

15   are.

16                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the sponsor 

17   will continue to yield.

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

20   Krueger -- the Senator yields.

21                SENATOR O'MARA:   So then at this 

22   point we are not making any enhancements to the 

23   ReCharge NY program.  Are we going to run up 

24   against an issue if we do this outside the 

25   budget, where the Governor typically says, well, 


                                                               2295

 1   that impacts the budget, therefore we can't do 

 2   it?  As we see when we try to do a lot of things 

 3   here not within the budget.  

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 5   Madam President, we do hit against those problems 

 6   when we try to do freestanding bills that are 

 7   costs to the state budget, but this would be a 

 8   cost to LIPA, not the state budget, so I don't 

 9   think we should have to worry about that.

10                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you.

11                That's all I have, Madam President.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Are there 

13   any other Senators wishing to be heard?

14                Seeing and hearing none, debate is 

15   closed.  The Secretary will ring the bell.

16                Read the last section.

17                THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

18   act shall take effect immediately.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Call the 

20   roll.

21                (The Secretary called the roll.)

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Announce 

23   the results.

24                THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

25   Calendar 648, those Senators voting in the 


                                                               2296

 1   negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Boyle, 

 2   Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Jordan, Lanza, 

 3   Martucci, Mattera, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, 

 4   Palumbo, Rath, Ritchie, Serino, Stec, Tedisco and 

 5   Weik.

 6                Ayes, 43.  Nays, 20.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The bill 

 8   is passed.

 9                Senator Gianaris.

10                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

11   can we now move on to Calendar 646, please.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

13   Secretary will read.

14                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

15   646, Senate Print 2505C, Senate Budget Bill, an 

16   act to amend Chapter 887 of the Laws of 1983.  

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   There is a 

18   substitution at the desk.  

19                The Secretary will read.

20                THE SECRETARY:   Senate Budget Bill 

21   moves to discharge, from the Committee on 

22   Finance, Assembly Bill Number 3005C and 

23   substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 

24   2505C, Third Reading Calendar 646.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 


                                                               2297

 1   substitution is so ordered.

 2                The Secretary shall read.

 3                THE SECRETARY:   Assembly Number 

 4   3005C, Assembly Budget Bill, an act to amend 

 5   Chapter 887 of the Laws of 1983.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 7   Jordan.

 8                SENATOR JORDAN:   Thank you, 

 9   Madam President.  I have two parts of this bill 

10   for which I have questions.  I'd like to start 

11   with Part BBB, the Farmland Protection Working 

12   Group.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

14   Krueger, do you yield?

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm just waiting 

16   for the right staff to join me, if that's okay.  

17   I wanted to make sure you knew.

18                SENATOR JORDAN:   We can wait, thank 

19   you.

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.  

21   Apparently we didn't know that was going to be 

22   your first section.

23                Madam President, isn't it beautiful 

24   in here when the light from the outside comes in 

25   through the windows?  It's such a sunny day out 


                                                               2298

 1   there.  Of course, we're all here, but ...

 2                (Discussion off the record.)

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Okay, you can ask 

 4   your question.

 5                SENATOR JORDAN:   Does the Senator 

 6   yield for questions.  

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 8   Krueger, do you yield?  

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Absolutely.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

11   Senator yields.

12                SENATOR JORDAN:   Okay.  Could you 

13   provide a brief description of the Farmland 

14   Protection Working Group?  

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Farmland 

16   protection within PPGG.

17                SENATOR JORDAN:   Correct.  Part 

18   BBB.

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Are you referring 

20   to the amendment to the Renewable Energy Siting 

21   Act?  

22                SENATOR JORDAN:   Yes.  There was a 

23   Farmland Protection Working Group, 

24   specifically --

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Great, at least I 


                                                               2299

 1   feel like I have the person who might be able to 

 2   help me answer the questions here with me.

 3                So it's a multi-agency task force 

 4   intending to be of assistance for the siting of 

 5   renewable energy without putting farmland at risk 

 6   of not being able to continue to be farmland.

 7                SENATOR JORDAN:   Will the Senator 

 8   continue to yield.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

10   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

11                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Absolutely.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

13   Senator yields.

14                SENATOR JORDAN:   So a major 

15   question that I have is will the working group 

16   have any formal power to deny a siting project 

17   due to the amount of prime agricultural land it 

18   is utilizing?

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So no, it is 

20   advisory.  But the entity that's supposed to make 

21   the siting decisions has to factor in the opinion 

22   and the information provided to them by this 

23   working group.

24                SENATOR JORDAN:   Okay.  So will the 

25   Senator continue to yield.


                                                               2300

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

 2   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 5   Senator yields.

 6                SENATOR JORDAN:   So if it's just an 

 7   advisory committee, would I -- is there any 

 8   requirement that the Office of Renewable Energy 

 9   Siting consider the recommendations of the 

10   working group when determining the approval or 

11   denial of a new facility?

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So the short 

13   answer is no.  

14                But the longer answer is if you look 

15   at who are the representatives on this task force 

16   making the recommendations, it is the heads of 

17   other state agencies and local governments.  So 

18   in the realm of task forces that I have seen 

19   existing in the State of New York, the ones where 

20   you have other state agency heads telling you as 

21   one group, Here are the concerns, here are the 

22   problems, are much more likely to be taken 

23   seriously than a task force that's made up of not 

24   other people from the same administration.

25                SENATOR JORDAN:   Will the Senator 


                                                               2301

 1   continue to yield.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

 3   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, ma'am.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 6   Senator yields.

 7                SENATOR JORDAN:   So this working 

 8   group has nothing to say about a particular 

 9   project that will be in the works, this is more 

10   of an overall study on what could be, on all of 

11   the projects?  

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

13   Madam President.  My understanding is that the 

14   task force will be to set up the standards that 

15   should be used by this office for determining 

16   sitings in the future.

17                So it will be a year time frame, 

18   they will make their expert recommendations, and 

19   then those recommendations should be used as the 

20   standards for how this office goes forward with 

21   any siting proposals.  So it would not be do the 

22   work specific to any given proposal, it would be 

23   do the work, use these standards for evaluating 

24   any and all proposals that will might come 

25   forward after that.


                                                               2302

 1                SENATOR JORDAN:   Thank you for 

 2   answering my questions, Senator.

 3                Madam President, on Part BBB of the 

 4   bill.

 5                So the answers to those questions 

 6   made it very easy for me to say that the Farmland 

 7   Protection Working Group, as established in this 

 8   measure, would be positive if the working group 

 9   actually had the authority to do anything 

10   substantive.  Unfortunately, the measure doesn't 

11   have such authority and is simply a study by 

12   state agencies to, in quoting from the bill text, 

13   recommend strategies to encourage and facilitate 

14   input from municipalities in the siting process 

15   and to develop recommendations that include 

16   approaches to recognize the value of viable 

17   agricultural land and methods to minimize adverse 

18   impacts to any such land resulting from the 

19   siting of major renewable energy facilities.

20                So what this would actually 

21   constitute is merely a signal study, a 

22   like-we-care study.  It begs the question is this 

23   provision simply window dressing so Majority 

24   members in rural districts can claim to be 

25   actually doing something on this important issue.  


                                                               2303

 1                While it is good that the Majority 

 2   is finally recognizing the serious, far-reaching, 

 3   long-term farmland implications that their solar 

 4   plans have created, the fact remains that this 

 5   provision does nothing, nothing of substance to 

 6   resolve those shortcomings and deficiencies.  

 7                This is but one reason that I'll be 

 8   voting no on this bill.  Thank you.  

 9                And now I'd like to ask questions on 

10   Part ZZ, the deer hunting pilot program.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

12   Krueger, do you yield?

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

15   Senator yields.

16                SENATOR JORDAN:   Okay.  Can you 

17   explain the differences between the Executive 

18   youth hunting provisions and this program in the 

19   enacted budget?

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

21   Madam President.  The first change was that the 

22   original draft included allowing 12- and 

23   13-year-olds to hunt deer and bear.  The bear 

24   have been saved; they are removed from the bill.  

25                The second part of the bill that's 


                                                               2304

 1   changed is that it now is an opt-in program in 

 2   certain counties, so they can choose to opt in, 

 3   except for New York City, Westchester, Suffolk 

 4   and Nassau, which are not eligible for the 

 5   program.  And that there will be an evaluation 

 6   after two years.  

 7                It also is an expansion of the 

 8   crossbow season proposed by the Executive, which 

 9   was rejected.  So we're not expanding the season.  

10   We're not letting the very young people shoot at 

11   bear.  You have to opt in, except for certain 

12   counties that don't have an opt-in option, which 

13   I believe was the same in the original language 

14   as well.

15                SENATOR JORDAN:   Will the Senator 

16   continue to yield.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

18   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

21   Senator yields.

22                SENATOR JORDAN:   What was the 

23   theory behind allowing an opt-in for counties to 

24   participate instead of an opting-out option?

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We're not sure 


                                                               2305

 1   how in the three-way it became opt-in versus 

 2   opt-out.  But either way, the county has the 

 3   choice, whether you consider it an opt-in or an 

 4   opt-out.

 5                SENATOR JORDAN:   Will the Senator 

 6   continue to yield.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

 8   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

11   Senator yields.

12                SENATOR JORDAN:   The Executive 

13   proposal, which included broader reforms to 

14   crossbow hunting and allowing youth to hunt all 

15   big game, was being sold as trying to take 

16   advantage of increased interest in the outdoors 

17   and hunting that COVID has brought, for 

18   unfortunately the wrong reasons.  

19                Is there any concern that not 

20   following through with the broader reforms and 

21   expansions, that some of this interest might 

22   subside?

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Madam President, 

24   I sincerely know nothing about people's 

25   attraction to hunting at different ages.  I know 


                                                               2306

 1   as -- speaking for myself -- and I was not part 

 2   of negotiating this section of the budget -- but 

 3   I have always opposed making hunting this young, 

 4   because of my concern for the children.  That I'm 

 5   very glad that bear got taken out, even though 

 6   I'm not sure why.  Because a 12-year-old versus a 

 7   bear, the bear stands a better chance of winning 

 8   the fight.  And I don't think that's what we want 

 9   for our children.

10                But as to whether removing bear from 

11   the rules of this pilot make hunting less 

12   attractive to young people this age, I -- I'm 

13   just not sure.  If they like it more because they 

14   think it's dangerous, then that might limit their 

15   interest.  But I don't want us to be having our 

16   children do dangerous things.

17                SENATOR JORDAN:   Thank you, 

18   Senator Krueger, for your answers.  

19                So on Part ZZ of this bill.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

21   Jordan on the bill.

22                SENATOR JORDAN:   So Part ZZ would 

23   establish a Youth Deer Hunting Pilot Program.  

24   While on the surface that sounds positive, there 

25   are still so many unanswered questions.  And 


                                                               2307

 1   regrettably, this part reflects a general theme 

 2   of missed opportunities for New York State to 

 3   truly seize the moment and build upon recent 

 4   expanded interest in hunting and outdoor activity 

 5   due to COVID.

 6                The questions I ask deserved 

 7   definitive answers, not inconclusive speculation.  

 8   Hunting is critically important -- it's an 

 9   important part of our state's economy and a 

10   beloved outdoor heritage proudly passed down and 

11   enjoyed generation to generation.  It's a rite of 

12   passage and a beloved way of life, especially in 

13   upstate.

14                As noted by the State Department of 

15   Environmental Conservation, hunting is among the 

16   most popular forms of wildlife recreation in 

17   New York State.  Approximately 700,000 

18   New Yorkers and over 50,000 nonresidents hunt 

19   right here in the Empire State.

20                Our state offers numerous 

21   opportunities to hunt a large variety of 

22   wildlife, including big game, small game, 

23   game birds and fur-bearers.  Hunting, fishing and 

24   enjoying New York's great outdoors are major 

25   revenue drivers for our state and support its 


                                                               2308

 1   conservation programs.

 2                Back in September the DEC noted that 

 3   in 2020 the sale of big game hunting and trapping 

 4   licenses had hit an all-time record, and DEC 

 5   Commissioner Seggos reported record-breaking 

 6   sales for upcoming seasons.  Sales for big game 

 7   hunting and trapping licenses and deer management 

 8   permits were triple the opening-day rate for 

 9   2019.  Furthermore, according to the DEC, over 

10   $922,000 was reported on the first day of big 

11   game sales of 2020, compared to 347,000 in 2019.

12                Purchasing hunting or trapping 

13   licenses supports essential DEC conservation 

14   projects.  An estimated 75 million has been 

15   generated to help conserve animals, enhance 

16   habitats, and provide opportunities for 

17   recreation.

18                So without question, hunting is a 

19   major revenue generator and makes a positive 

20   economic difference for our state and many of the 

21   very programs that are critical to wildlife.

22                That's why it's so disappointing 

23   that with the 2021-2022 State Budget -- now 

24   that's, what, five or six days late -- that the 

25   Majority is still unable to explain to my 


                                                               2309

 1   satisfaction the differences between the youth 

 2   hunting provisions originally proposed in the 

 3   Governor's 2021-2022 Executive Budget proposal 

 4   and those in the enacted State Budget if this 

 5   measure passes.

 6                Nor has the Majority articulated a 

 7   justifiable rationale behind the creation of an 

 8   opt-in mechanism for counties' participation, as 

 9   opposed to an opt-out.

10                By failing to follow through with 

11   the broader hunting reforms outlined in the 

12   Executive Budget proposal, it appears that the 

13   Majority is missing a golden opportunity to help 

14   our state capitalize on increased interest in 

15   hunting and outdoor activities that have been 

16   necessitated by the Governor's COVID closures.

17                This shortsighted mindset will cost 

18   our state, fail to build upon growing interest in 

19   hunting, and ultimately deny our wildlife 

20   conservation programs of much-needed revenue.  

21                So for all of these reasons, I'll be 

22   voting no on this bill.  Thank you, 

23   Madam President and my colleagues.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

25   Senator Jordan.


                                                               2310

 1                Senator Akshar.

 2                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

 3   thank you.  If the sponsor would be so kind to 

 4   yield to a few questions.  I just want to focus 

 5   my attention on two subject areas:  First, the 

 6   Executive Order 203, and then prison closures.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

 8   Krueger, do you yield?

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   One minute.

10                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Of course.

11                SENATOR KRUEGER:   And of course I 

12   do.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

14   Senator yields.  

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course, please 

16   allow my colleague to ask me questions.

17                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Senator Krueger, 

18   thank you.  Madam President, through you.  

19                How many police departments across 

20   the state have not come into compliance to date 

21   with Executive Order 203?

22                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Four hundred 

23   forty-eight out of a total of 497 are in 

24   compliance.

25                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 


                                                               2311

 1   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

 2   yield.

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.  

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 5   Krueger yields.

 6                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Senator, who is 

 7   determining whether the law enforcement agency or 

 8   the local government has complied with the 

 9   process that has been put forth in EO 203?

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   The police 

11   departments self-certify, and we're believing 

12   them.

13                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

14   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

15   yield.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

17   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

20   Senator yields.

21                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Senator, what 

22   happens if a local government adopts a local law 

23   or a resolution in accordance with the executive 

24   order which the Director of the Budget does not 

25   believe is sufficient?  What would happen?  


                                                               2312

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Under the current 

 2   rules that are not changing, DOB has no role in 

 3   this process.  If the local police agency 

 4   self-certifies, we are accepting.  We are not at 

 5   a stage where we are challenging anyone's 

 6   self-certification.

 7                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

 8   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

 9   yield.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

11   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

14   Senator yields.

15                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Do you ever 

16   anticipate getting to a place where you're not 

17   comfortable that the police department has done 

18   what it's supposed to do?  

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   There's been no 

20   discussion of changing this.  I suppose at some 

21   point in time if Senator Akshar was to bring to 

22   all of our attention that he believed that people 

23   were incorrectly certifying, there would be an 

24   argument for the Legislature and the Governor to 

25   reevaluate.  But at this time we are not aware of 


                                                               2313

 1   any such discussions.

 2                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

 3   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

 4   yield.  

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

 6   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 9   Senator yields.

10                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Just for the 

11   record, Senator, believe me, I was not suggesting 

12   that anybody was doing that.  I was just asking a 

13   question based on something that you had said.

14                The question -- just for my own 

15   clarification, you said that the Budget Director 

16   has no role in any of this.  After a local law or 

17   a resolution is passed by a county legislature, a 

18   city council, what happens to that resolution or 

19   that local law?

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   When the local 

21   government submits the document saying that they 

22   have met their obligations, DOB checks the box 

23   that they got that information from the locality 

24   and DOB has no authority to move any further than 

25   confirm that they got the document.


                                                               2314

 1                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Okay.  

 2   Madam President, through you, if the sponsor 

 3   would continue to yield.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

 5   Krueger, do you continue to yield?

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do.  I do.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 8   Senator yields.

 9                SENATOR AKSHAR:   I'm just -- I'll 

10   read in part.  The bill states a monitor can be 

11   appointed and up to 50 percent of any 

12   appropriated state or federal funds can be 

13   withheld until the Director of the Division of 

14   Budget is in receipt of the -- the requirements 

15   of the executive order.

16                So again, just so I'm clear, the 

17   Division of Budget has nothing to do in terms of 

18   certifying.  If the Department of Budget -- or, 

19   excuse me, the Division of Budget was not able to 

20   check that box, then in fact the government would 

21   withhold -- this state government would withhold 

22   up to 50 percent of appropriated state or federal 

23   funds.

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

25   Madam President.  If the community has not 


                                                               2315

 1   submitted confirming what they have done, then 

 2   the state can withhold money.  But the state 

 3   can't question what they have done or whether 

 4   it's adequate.  So it's really just the question 

 5   of did you self-certify.

 6                So if you don't self-certify, yes, 

 7   then you can actually lose the money.  But you 

 8   can't lose money for self-certifying and having 

 9   somebody come along and say it doesn't meet the 

10   standard we expect of you.

11                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

12   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

13   yield.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

15   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

18   Senator yields.

19                SENATOR AKSHAR:   If a monitor was 

20   appointed to oversee that police agency, where 

21   would the costs be borne?  

22                SENATOR KRUEGER:   They would be 

23   picked up by the local government.  

24                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

25   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 


                                                               2316

 1   yield.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

 3   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 6   Senator yields.

 7                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Senator Krueger, 

 8   thank you.

 9                Any idea how much a monitor would 

10   cost that local government?

11                SENATOR KRUEGER:   No, because it 

12   depends on how long a monitor was hired for.  It 

13   could be a day to get them to do the form.  It 

14   could be months.  That would really be up to the 

15   local government and the police force, working 

16   together.

17                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

18   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

19   yield.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

21   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

22                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

24   Senator yields.

25                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Based on your 


                                                               2317

 1   number, Senator, there are 49 police agencies 

 2   statewide that have not met the requirement.  

 3   When should we expect to see a monitor put in 

 4   place for those 49 police agencies?

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Step one, the 

 6   budget needs to be enacted.  Step two, the DOB 

 7   needs to tell those localities that they are in 

 8   fact not in compliance.  Step three would be some 

 9   time period for them to find monitors.  I'm not 

10   sure what the qualifications or the availability 

11   of said monitors are.

12                So it sounds like you could get the 

13   activity rolling pretty quickly, but I don't have 

14   a sense about whether you would have to do groups 

15   of communities because there aren't 49 monitors, 

16   for example, or whether this is something that is 

17   simpler than that.  We just don't know yet.

18                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

19   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

20   yield.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

22   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Yes, the 

25   Senator yields.


                                                               2318

 1                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Senator, I know 

 2   that you're working incredibly diligently on step 

 3   one and it's your desire to get this budget 

 4   passed as quickly as possible.

 5                Madam President, through you, are 

 6   you aware that Richard Rivera, a cop killer, was 

 7   a member of a police advisory group, this 

 8   commission to reimage, reform the police 

 9   department in the City of Ithaca?  Number one.  

10                And do you believe that the fact 

11   that he was a cop killer should have disqualified 

12   him from sitting on that commission?

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So I know -- I 

14   believe I know that much information from the 

15   press.  But I don't know what they were defining 

16   as the qualifications for the commission.  I 

17   don't know anything about the incident of how he 

18   found himself killing a police officer.  So I 

19   guess I would need to do more research for you 

20   before I told you that I had an opinion.

21                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Thank you.  

22                Madam President, if the sponsor 

23   would continue to yield.  And I would move to 

24   prison closures in terms of my line of 

25   questioning moving forward.


                                                               2319

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.  

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

 3   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 4                The Senator yields.

 5                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, I 

 6   believe she said yes. 

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I'm sorry, I 

 8   did.

 9                SENATOR AKSHAR:   That's okay.  

10                Senator, the Senate's one-house had 

11   an 180-day notice requirement.  And the Assembly 

12   one-house did not include an extension of that 

13   provision, so it would have gone back to a 

14   one-year notice.  How did we end up back at 

15   90 days?  I don't want to be presumptuous, but it 

16   appears by all accounts that both houses kind of 

17   acquiesced to the Governor on this issue.  

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So to be quite 

19   blunt, the Governor needed his $30 million in 

20   savings, so we ended up at the 90-day closure so 

21   that we could book the savings in this year's 

22   budget.

23                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

24   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

25   yield.


                                                               2320

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

 2   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 5   Senator yields.

 6                SENATOR AKSHAR:   It's one of those 

 7   situations where somebody had to buy back or 

 8   trade for the 30 million, is that fair to say?  

 9   Or to make the financial plan work, you had to 

10   show a $30 million savings?

11                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Well, I guess you 

12   could describe every negotiation within a budget 

13   on every line as being are we going to get the 

14   money we need here, are we going to have to take 

15   it from somewhere else, are we going to have to 

16   increase revenue again.

17                So I suppose that would be a way to 

18   put it if you're going to describe it as every 

19   budget negotiation on every line.  Um --

20                SENATOR AKSHAR:   I'm sorry.

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   No, that's okay.

22                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Thank you.  Would 

23   the sponsor be so kind to answer a few more 

24   questions.

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.


                                                               2321

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 2   Krueger yields.

 3                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

 4   through you.  How many prisons have we closed 

 5   over the last couple of years?  

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I am told it is 

 7   four.

 8                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

 9   would the sponsor continue to yield.

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

12   Senator yields.

13                SENATOR AKSHAR:   In terms of those 

14   negotiations specific to this line of 

15   questioning, did the Governor tell you how many 

16   prisons he plans on closing throughout this next 

17   fiscal year?

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   He has not shared 

19   any additional information with us.

20                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

21   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

22   yield.

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

25   Senator yields.


                                                               2322

 1                SENATOR AKSHAR:   No information 

 2   outside of we need to save 30 million?  And does 

 3   that 30 million equate to one prison, two 

 4   prisons, four prisons?

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   There's been a 

 6   bed number of -- a reduction of 1500 beds 

 7   statewide in the system.

 8                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

 9   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

10   yield.

11                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

13   Krueger yields.

14                SENATOR AKSHAR:   I recall the DOCCS 

15   commissioner during the Public Protection Budget 

16   Hearing talked about 1800 beds being closed over 

17   the next two fiscal years.

18                So does that get us to that 

19   $30 million number?

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We think it does.

21                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Thank you.  

22                Madam President, through you, if the 

23   sponsor would continue to yield.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

25   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  


                                                               2323

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 3   Senator yields.

 4                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Senator, during 

 5   your negotiations in reference to prison 

 6   closures, was there any conversations about 

 7   layoffs to current staff as a result of either 

 8   future prison closures or the reduction of 1500 

 9   or 1800 beds?

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   No, there was no 

11   discussion of needing to lay off staff.  And no 

12   staff was laid off for the four prison closures 

13   that have already taken place.

14                SENATOR AKSHAR:   One moment.

15                Madam President, through you, if the 

16   sponsor would continue to yield.

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

19   Krueger yields.

20                SENATOR AKSHAR:   I know that we're 

21   not in the Aid to Localities bill, so I'm aware 

22   of that.  But under this proposal, is there any 

23   community aid as a result to any of these 

24   closures?

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We do not think 


                                                               2324

 1   so.

 2                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

 3   through you, if the sponsor will continue to 

 4   yield.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

 6   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 9   Senator yields.

10                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Was there any 

11   conversations with DOCCS, the Governor, about -- 

12   when speaking about prison closures, about having 

13   to move other prisoners into existing buildings 

14   not being closed and dealing with the pandemic?  

15   Was there any concern by either the acting 

16   commissioner, members of NYSCOPBA, you know, 

17   dealing with COVID-19 and how it affects people 

18   within the confines of a prison system?

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm going to take 

20   a leap that probably within the prison system 

21   there have been all kinds of conversations about 

22   how to protect prisoners and corrections officers 

23   and others in the prisons from least exposure to 

24   COVID, decreased chances of getting COVID, 

25   testing, and now vaccinating.  Whether any of 


                                                               2325

 1   that was correlated to movement because of 

 2   changes in prisoner assignments because of 

 3   closing prisons, I don't know.

 4                I'm not sure the question would be 

 5   that different whether it was a general what do 

 6   we do to protect from COVID versus removing 

 7   people, what do we do to protect from COVID.

 8                We have been told and assured by 

 9   DOCCS that there is adequate space in the prison 

10   system because of the reduced number of 

11   prisoners, so that there is no reason to believe 

12   that reducing the number of prisons in New York 

13   State translates to having inadequate space and 

14   facilities for the remaining number of prisoners 

15   in our system.

16                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

17   through you, if the sponsor would continue to 

18   yield.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

20   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

23   Senator yields.

24                SENATOR AKSHAR:   I may have asked 

25   it already; I just want to take another shot at 


                                                               2326

 1   it.  In terms of the 1500 or 1800 beds, does that 

 2   equate to one prison, two prisons?  I mean, is 

 3   there any discussions internally about that?  

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   No one has shared 

 5   that information with us.  It's a perfectly 

 6   reasonable question.  But the Governor and his 

 7   people have not chosen to say, Here is our plan 

 8   for where we're closing these beds and how many, 

 9   where.

10                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

11   through you, if the sponsor will continue to 

12   yield.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

14   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

17   Senator yields.

18                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Just back on the 

19   COVID-19 issue for just a moment.  Outside of the 

20   prisoner population, is there any concern that if 

21   you were to, you know, following history, close 

22   another two prisons, all of the employees 

23   associated with those establishments then moving 

24   into new communities, has there been some thought 

25   given to that, about, you know, uprooting 


                                                               2327

 1   families and making them move to new communities 

 2   to continue their employ within the Department of 

 3   Corrections and Community Supervision?

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   It's my 

 5   understanding that the prison system is 

 6   committing to moving people within the same hub, 

 7   but I don't really know what a hub is, I've just 

 8   learned that.  

 9                I do know that when you look at the 

10   statistics, even today, throughout the State of 

11   New York in what I would call the third explosion 

12   of new COVID cases, that there are no safer or 

13   less safe communities statistically.  One just 

14   has to be extremely careful about how one is 

15   keeping safe distance, wearing masks, avoiding 

16   group scenes, making sure -- now today, I 

17   believe, we have officially made it that anyone 

18   of any age can get a vaccination in New York.  

19   Still, the challenge of do we have enough 

20   vaccines, and where, and will people accept the 

21   vaccines.  So we have a lot of work to do.  

22                So these are real issues that you 

23   raise.  I just don't know that they are specific 

24   or unique to people who live or work in or near 

25   different prisons.  


                                                               2328

 1                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Madam President, 

 2   on the bill for just a moment.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 4   Akshar on the bill.

 5                SENATOR AKSHAR:   Just in regards to 

 6   the hunting portion, I'm sure Senator Lanza would 

 7   happily invite you to his property in the 

 8   Hudson Valley, or I would be happy to invite you 

 9   to the Southern Tier to experience a big game 

10   hunt at some point moving forward.

11                Madam President, I thank Senator 

12   Krueger, of course, for answering our questions 

13   and would yield back my time.  Thank you.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you.

15                Senator O'Mara.

16                SENATOR O'MARA:   Yes, thank you, 

17   Madam President.  Just a few questions, if the 

18   Senator would yield.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

20   Krueger, do you yield?

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm ready.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

23   Senator yields.  

24                SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator Krueger, 

25   just a couple of questions on the prison closure 


                                                               2329

 1   side of it.  

 2                We're estimating -- the Governor is 

 3   estimating $30 million in savings, but you 

 4   indicated no layoffs are anticipated.  How do we 

 5   reach that $30 million in savings?

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Reduction in 

 7   overtime, facility maintenance, having to just 

 8   have prisons open versus not open.

 9                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the Senator 

10   will continue to yield.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

12   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

15   Senator yields.

16                SENATOR O'MARA:   And again, you 

17   have no indication of how many or what type of 

18   prisons are anticipated to be closed or which 

19   ones the Governor is looking at?

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   He's not sharing 

21   with us.  You're welcome to ask him.  Maybe 

22   you'll get more information.

23                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the sponsor 

24   will continue to yield.

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.


                                                               2330

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

 2   Krueger continues to yield.

 3                SENATOR O'MARA:   I wouldn't expect 

 4   any information from this Governor, frankly, to 

 5   us or to anybody, for that matter, since we 

 6   haven't had any in over a year, while he's had 

 7   his emergency powers to do whatever he pleases.

 8                But on the prisons.  Is there any 

 9   language that we've been able to acquire in this 

10   prison closure plan with regards to 

11   double-bunking of inmates?  That has been a major 

12   issue over the years that I understand is getting 

13   a little better.  But the double-bunking was 

14   causing a lot of security and safety issues 

15   within the prisons because of just the nature of 

16   the double-bunking and more incidents between 

17   inmates.

18                Have we taken any steps here to 

19   assure that double-bunking will not be utilized 

20   going forward, since we're reducing the number of 

21   prisons?

22                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So the good news 

23   is we are advised that they are not using 

24   double-bunking and that they fully expect they 

25   have the capacity, even with prison closures, to 


                                                               2331

 1   avoid having double-bunking with the prison 

 2   closures.

 3                So there may have been a problem at 

 4   some time; I'm not saying there wasn't.  But 

 5   apparently, thanks to changes in our criminal 

 6   justice system, fewer people are in our prisons, 

 7   so there's just not the same capacity issues that 

 8   people might have seen in previous dates in 

 9   history.  And so there's not double-bunking.

10                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the sponsor 

11   will continue to yield.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

13   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

16   Senator yields.

17                SENATOR O'MARA:   I don't see 

18   anything in this budget, and I wonder if there's 

19   discussions going on with regards to the 

20   Raise the Age issues and the segregation of 

21   younger inmates into separate facilities, whether 

22   there's any effort to repurpose some of these 

23   facilities for that.  

24                Because I understand from my 

25   communities it's becoming a real problem to find 


                                                               2332

 1   locations to send these 16- and 17-year-olds when 

 2   incarceration is ordered.

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So it was 

 4   explained to me we took some DOCCS facilities, 

 5   transferred them to OCFS, where they became 

 6   facilities for young people through the Raise the 

 7   Age program.  So there isn't a problem finding 

 8   locations for the young people.

 9                Very often they're in exactly the 

10   same facilities, but OCFS is now running and -- 

11   they may be in different facilities.  Sorry, 

12   strike that sentence.  They may be in different 

13   facilities, but OCFS is now running the 

14   facilities and the programming under 

15   Raise the Age, and we're not aware of a shortage 

16   of space to send these young people to.

17                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the sponsor 

18   will continue to yield.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

20   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

23   Senator yields.

24                SENATOR O'MARA:   Do you have an 

25   estimate of the occupancy or the number of beds 


                                                               2333

 1   available in the youth detention facilities?

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   No, we don't 

 3   today.  We'll ask for you.  It's a good question.

 4                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you.

 5                Through you, Madam President, 

 6   changing topics here, if the Senator will 

 7   continue to yield.

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

10   Senator continues to yield.

11                SENATOR O'MARA:   There was a 

12   Part TT in the budget regarding amnesty on having 

13   individuals removed from your healthcare plan if 

14   you had a -- I assume that's dealing with having 

15   an older dependent that ages off of your 

16   insurance but you don't remove them, that it 

17   would have allowed an amnesty period to make that 

18   correction.  

19                How come that has been left out?  

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So I apologize.  

21   When I look at PPGG, Part TT rejects the proposal 

22   to allow the president of the Civil Service 

23   Commission to establish 60-day amnesty to 

24   identify dependents who are ineligible for health 

25   benefits.  So since it rejects it, there will not 


                                                               2334

 1   be a 60-day amnesty.  That's your question.

 2                SENATOR O'MARA:   Well, my question 

 3   is why has it been rejected.  

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We're looking for 

 5   that answer.

 6                I'm advised that we rejected it 

 7   because there's an audit that's going to take 

 8   place with the same outcome either way, and that 

 9   our colleagues across the building were strongly 

10   opposed to it.

11                SENATOR O'MARA:   Again, through 

12   you, Madam President, changing topics to the 

13   retirement incentive issue, if the Senator would 

14   yield.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

16   Krueger, do you yield?  

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

18                Perfect.  We knew that was going to 

19   be your next question, because the right staff 

20   magically appeared.

21                SENATOR O'MARA:   Good timing.

22                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, indeed.

23                SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator, this -- 

24   there was an early retirement incentive proposed 

25   in each of the one-house budgets from the 


                                                               2335

 1   Assembly and the Senate.  

 2                However, according to my read, there 

 3   is no retirement incentive in this budget, at 

 4   least in this portion of the budget.  Is it going 

 5   to appear later on in another budget bill?

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, it will, in 

 7   another budget bill.

 8                SENATOR O'MARA:   Okay, then I will 

 9   save questions on that until then.  

10                And I think that, Madam President, 

11   wraps up my questions on this bill.  Thank you 

12   very much.

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.  

14                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you.

15                Are there any other Senators wishing 

16   to be heard?

17                Seeing and hearing none, debate is 

18   closed.  The Secretary will ring the bell.  

19                Read the last section.

20                THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

21   act shall take effect immediately.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Call the 

23   roll.

24                (The Secretary called the roll.)

25                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Announce 


                                                               2336

 1   the results.

 2                THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 3   Calendar 646, those Senators voting in the 

 4   negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Boyle, 

 5   Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Jordan, Lanza, 

 6   Martucci, Mattera, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, 

 7   Palumbo, Rath, Ritchie, Serino, Stec, Tedisco and 

 8   Weik.

 9                Ayes, 43.  Nays, 20.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The bill 

11   is passed.

12                Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

13   reading of the controversial calendar.

14                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Thank you, 

15   Madam President.

16                At this time our colleagues in the 

17   Minority I believe are going to have a short 

18   conference, and what we're going to do is call a 

19   meeting of the Finance Committee in Room 332 for 

20   4:00 p.m. 

21                And please call on Senator Lanza for 

22   an announcement.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

24   Lanza.

25                SENATOR LANZA:   Thank you, Senator 


                                                               2337

 1   Gianaris.

 2                Madam President, there will be an 

 3   immediate meeting of the Republican Conference in 

 4   Room 315 of the Capitol.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   There will 

 6   be an immediate meeting of the Minority 

 7   Conference in Room 315 of the Capitol and a 

 8   Finance Committee meeting at 4:00 p.m. in 

 9   Room 332 of the Capitol.

10                SENATOR GIANARIS:   The Senate will 

11   stand at ease.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The Senate 

13   will stand at ease.

14                (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease 

15   at 3:30 p.m.)

16                (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at 

17   5:17 p.m.)

18                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The Senate 

19   will return to order.

20                Senator Gianaris.

21                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Okay, 

22   Madam President.  So a small change of plans from 

23   what we announced earlier.  

24                We're going to now have an immediate 

25   meeting of the Rules Committee in Room 332, 


                                                               2338

 1   followed immediately by the Finance Committee 

 2   thereafter, also in Room 332.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   There will 

 4   be an immediate meeting of the Rules Committee, 

 5   followed by the Finance Committee.  Both are 

 6   in Room 332.

 7                SENATOR GIANARIS:   After which the 

 8   two bills that those committees will be producing 

 9   will be taken up on the floor.

10                The Senate will stand at ease.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The Senate 

12   will stand at ease.

13                (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease 

14   at 5:18 p.m.)

15                (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at 

16   5:31 p.m.)

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The Senate 

18   will return to order.

19                Senator Gianaris.

20                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

21   I believe there's a report of the 

22   Finance Committee at the desk.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

24   Secretary will read.

25                THE SECRETARY:   Senator Krueger, 


                                                               2339

 1   from the Committee on Finance, reports the 

 2   following bill:  

 3                Senate Print 2504D, Senate Budget 

 4   Bill, an act making appropriations for the 

 5   support of government:  CAPITAL PROJECTS BUDGET.

 6                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to accept 

 7   the report of the Finance Committee.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   All those 

 9   in favor of accepting the report of the 

10   Finance Committee signify by saying aye.

11                (Response of "Aye.")

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Opposed, 

13   nay.

14                (No response.)

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

16   Finance Committee report is accepted.

17                Senator Gianaris.

18                SENATOR GIANARIS:   I now believe 

19   there's a report of the Rules Committee at the 

20   desk.  Please take that up.  

21                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

22   Secretary will read.

23                THE SECRETARY:   Senator 

24   Stewart-Cousins, from the Committee on Rules, 

25   reports the following bill:


                                                               2340

 1                Senate Print 6081, by the Senate 

 2   Committee on Rules, an act making appropriations 

 3   for the support of government.  

 4                All bills reported direct to third 

 5   reading.

 6                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to accept 

 7   the report of the Rules Committee.  

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   All those 

 9   in favor of accepting the report of the 

10   Rules Committee signify by saying aye.

11                (Response of "Aye.")

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Opposed, 

13   nay.

14                (No response.)

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The Rules 

16   Committee report is accepted.

17                Senator Gianaris.

18                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Let's take up 

19   the supplemental calendar, please.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

21   Secretary will read.

22                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

23   649, Senate Print 2504D, Senate Budget Bill, an 

24   act making appropriations for the support of 

25   government.


                                                               2341

 1                SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

 2                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Before we lay it 

 3   aside, Madam President, is there a message of 

 4   necessity at the desk?

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   There is a 

 6   message of necessity at the desk.

 7                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to accept 

 8   the message of necessity.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   All in 

10   favor of accepting the message of necessity 

11   signify by saying aye.

12                (Response of "Aye.")

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Opposed, 

14   nay.

15                (No response.)

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

17   message is accepted and the bill is before the 

18   house.

19                SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The bill 

21   is laid aside.

22                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

23   651, Senate Print 6081, Senate Committee on 

24   Rules, an act making appropriations for the 

25   support of government.


                                                               2342

 1                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Is there a 

 2   message of necessity at the desk?  

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   There is a 

 4   message of necessity at the desk.  

 5                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to accept 

 6   the message of necessity.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   All in 

 8   favor of accepting the message of necessity 

 9   signify by saying aye.

10                (Response of "Aye.")

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Opposed?  

12                (No response.)

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

14   message is accepted, and the bill is before the 

15   house.

16                Read the last section.

17                THE SECRETARY:   Section 18.  This 

18   act shall take effect immediately.  

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Call the 

20   roll.

21                (The Secretary called the roll.)

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Announce 

23   the results.

24                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 63.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The bill 


                                                               2343

 1   is passed.

 2                Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

 3   reading of today's supplemental calendar.

 4                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to the 

 5   controversial calendar, please.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 7   Secretary will ring the bell.

 8                The Secretary will read.

 9                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

10   649, Senate Print 2504D, Senate Budget Bill, an 

11   act making appropriations for the support of 

12   government.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

14   O'Mara.

15                SENATOR O'MARA:   Yes, 

16   Madam President, thank you.  If Senator Krueger 

17   would yield for some questions on this budget 

18   bill.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

20   Krueger, will you yield?  

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I will.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

23   Senator will yield.

24                SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator, the 

25   financial plan that we discussed a little bit at 


                                                               2344

 1   the beginning of today indicates that the capital 

 2   budget -- which I'm assuming is this bill before 

 3   us now -- is increasing by 34.5 percent.  Can you 

 4   tell me how come we're having that large of an 

 5   increase in spending?

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We haven't had 

 7   that much capital spending in quite a few years, 

 8   and the demands have grown.  So I think when you 

 9   look at each area that we're putting capital 

10   money into, that hopefully you will agree that 

11   these are important things for us to spend on.

12                In an economic downturn, stimulus 

13   funding is argued to be one of the best ways to 

14   get your economy going and create jobs.  So 

15   dealing with infrastructure needs through capital 

16   spending is not only a way to help make sure the 

17   state comes out of its assorted crises of the 

18   moment, it also helps us invest in jobs to do 

19   this work.  

20                And the interest rates are extremely 

21   low, so it's actually not costing us that much.  

22   So it's sort of a win/win.  You can borrow money 

23   at reasonable rates, you can then put that money 

24   into infrastructure capital needs that the state 

25   has long had and been begging -- well, various 


                                                               2345

 1   people have been begging for us to put into the 

 2   capital plan.  And as a result, you hopefully 

 3   move our state out of economic bad times into a 

 4   modern economy with more of the work done for us.

 5                I think it's an excellent idea.

 6                SENATOR O'MARA:   Will the Senator 

 7   continue to yield.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator, 

 9   do you continue to yield?  

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I will.

11                SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator Krueger, 

12   I'm showing also on the financial plan that the 

13   capital spending in our current year's budget was 

14   $13.949 billion, and this year it's increased by 

15   roughly $5 billion to $18.760 billion.  Is that a 

16   fair statement?  

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Close enough.

18                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the Senator 

19   will continue to yield.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

21   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

22                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

24   Senator yields.

25                SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator, in 


                                                               2346

 1   regards to the transportation capital budget 

 2   here, is there a five-year capital plan for 

 3   DOT and the MTA in this capital budget?  

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 5   Madam President.  It is my understanding that we 

 6   have a one-year plan for the transportation 

 7   money, but at the time that the federal money for 

 8   transportation and infrastructure comes through, 

 9   we will then be developing a five-year plan.

10                SENATOR O'MARA:   Madam President, 

11   if the Senator will continue to yield.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

13   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

16   Senator yields.

17                SENATOR O'MARA:   When do you 

18   anticipate being able to put together that 

19   five-year plan?

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   It sort of 

21   depends on when the federal government passes 

22   their bill.  We're hoping for a quick turnaround.  

23   The Biden administration is pretty committed to 

24   all of this, and they've been able to deliver the 

25   other things they told us they would be able to.


                                                               2347

 1                So I'm hoping, you know, within a 

 2   matter of months we have the federal bill passed.  

 3   And then I would think New York State wants to 

 4   move as quickly as possible to not just develop a 

 5   plan, but get the money out the door and start 

 6   doing the work.

 7                SENATOR O'MARA:   Will the Senator 

 8   continue to yield.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator, 

10   do you continue to yield?

11                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Yes, the 

13   Senator yields.

14                SENATOR O'MARA:   How much federal 

15   dollars -- how many federal dollars are 

16   incorporated into this capital projects budget?  

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We think 

18   approximately half of the 17.6 billion in 

19   Executive-level capital is federal and half is 

20   state.  So let's just say 9 billion federal, 

21   9 billion state.  

22                But then there's another 4 billion 

23   of added capital, and that's not federal at all.

24                SENATOR O'MARA:   Will the Senator 

25   continue to yield.


                                                               2348

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

 2   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 5   Senator yields.

 6                SENATOR O'MARA:   Of that extra 

 7   $4 billion that is state dollars, where is that 

 8   being directed?

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So 3 billion of 

10   it is going through the bond act, the Green Bond 

11   Act.  I think it's the Mother Nature Green Bond 

12   Act.  So that will all be targeted to 

13   environmentally relatable projects, 

14   sustainability projects.  And that's the vast 

15   majority.

16                And then we have $450 million for 

17   public housing and affordable housing.  We have 

18   $91 million in capital for social welfare, public 

19   protection, general government, other.  We have 

20   $270 million for higher education and education 

21   and 350 million additional for transportation.

22                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

23   Senator.

24                Will the Senator continue to yield.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  


                                                               2349

 1   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 4   Senator yields.

 5                SENATOR O'MARA:   Since you say we 

 6   only have a one-year capital plan with regards to 

 7   the DOT and the MTA, can you describe for me what 

 8   those levels of spending are, the DOT compared to 

 9   the MTA?

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So DOT spending 

11   again is about the 7.6 billion, and that's state 

12   money.  The MTA is a separate authority, 

13   off-budget, so we don't define that as being 

14   state spending within the budget.  But it is also 

15   true we are making a contribution to the MTA of 

16   $7.3 billion.

17                SENATOR O'MARA:   Will the sponsor 

18   continue to yield.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator, 

20   do you continue to yield?  

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

23   Senator continues to yield.

24                SENATOR O'MARA:   Can you describe 

25   for me the amount of federal dollars that the 


                                                               2350

 1   state receives for DOT and for the MTA?  

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So we receive a 

 3   $2.526 billion appropriation from the feds to our 

 4   capital projects in transportation.  Again, it's 

 5   not MTA money, but we know that the federal 

 6   government, separate from going through us or our 

 7   budget, has approved 8 billion of supplemental 

 8   capital for the MTA through two different federal 

 9   bills.

10                SENATOR O'MARA:   Will the sponsor 

11   continue to yield.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

13   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

16   Senator yields.

17                SENATOR O'MARA:   Is that 8 billion 

18   for the MTA, is that part of a federal COVID 

19   relief package bill, or is that just regular 

20   ordinary ongoing assistance to the MTA?  

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   No, I believe it 

22   was two different $4 billion awards through two 

23   different COVID stimulus funding categories of 

24   the federal government.

25                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you.


                                                               2351

 1                On the bill for a moment, please; 

 2   then I'll have a couple more questions.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 4   O'Mara on the bill.

 5                SENATOR O'MARA:   You know, I am 

 6   concerned that we're not having a five-year 

 7   capital plan right now for either the DOT or the 

 8   MTA.  But parity is extremely important in that 

 9   funding, as the state -- from 2016 to 2020, the 

10   DOT and MTA capital plans had parity, with DOT 

11   statewide receiving 29.3 billion and the MTA 

12   receiving 30 billion.  Very close.  

13                At the end of 2019 the MTA approved 

14   a new five-year capital plan which committed 

15   $51.5 billion, an increase of almost 70 percent.  

16   The fiscal year '21 enacted budget contained only 

17   a two-year capital plan for DOT worth only 

18   $11.9 billion, so about $6 billion a year.  At 

19   this five-year rate, under that 2021 funding, the 

20   DOT plan would be 29.8 billion, or 73 percent 

21   less than the MTA capital plan.

22                If the sponsor would yield for a 

23   question.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

25   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  


                                                               2352

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 3   Senator yields.

 4                SENATOR O'MARA:   Do you anticipate 

 5   that disparity in the parity that I just 

 6   highlighted of 73 percent is going to continue 

 7   going forward or whether we're going to get back 

 8   to more in line of spending similarly on DOT 

 9   projects as well as the MTA?

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

11   Madam President, I sincerely don't know.  

12                It seems to me the right question 

13   for the State of New York is what funding do we 

14   need to address our infrastructure costs.  And 

15   there's not an obvious reason to believe that it 

16   would be a 50-50 break out between the MTA, one 

17   mass transit system, and everything else.  

18   Conceivably there would be lesser costs in some 

19   over time, there could be higher costs in others 

20   over time.  

21                Certainly when it comes to the MTA, 

22   we know we have faced -- oh, my goodness, we were 

23   still working on the rebuild from Superstorm 

24   Sandy and all of the commitments that we needed 

25   to make them whole from that.  I don't think 


                                                               2353

 1   we've even finished yet, and then we just keep 

 2   getting hit by other things.

 3                So I don't know that I would argue 

 4   that any plan for the State of New York for any 

 5   topic should automatically be once upon a time we 

 6   did something one way, so we should always do it 

 7   that way.  I think it would more be the evidence 

 8   of what is needed.  

 9                And again, of course, now with the 

10   different federal streams of money, as I pointed 

11   out on an earlier bill, if we know we're getting 

12   a certain amount of money from the federal 

13   government for something, we would not want to be 

14   duplicative or use our state money for something 

15   that we thought we could cover by the federal 

16   money.  And that's not a year-by-year thing, that 

17   really depends on where we are and where 

18   Washington is.  

19                So I think you have to -- I like the 

20   idea of five-year planning for capital, by the 

21   way.  I think that's an excellent idea.  But as 

22   to what amounts are correct and needed, I 

23   certainly don't think one should argue, you know, 

24   because we did something in X year we have to do 

25   the same thing in Y year.


                                                               2354

 1                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

 2   Senator.  

 3                If the Senator will continue to 

 4   yield.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator, 

 6   do you continue to yield?  

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Yes, the 

 9   Senator yields.

10                SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator, you 

11   stated that it's important to know what the 

12   overall need is of each of these separate 

13   categories.  So do you have an idea of what the 

14   need at the MTA level is for capital needs?  

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So there has been 

16   a multiyear capital plan proposed by the MTA.  I 

17   don't know what year we're in, and I don't know 

18   how much it was.  (Pause.)

19                The 2024 capital plan for the MTA 

20   was $51.4 billion.  I believe that was pre-COVID.  

21   So no doubt they have had changed needs since 

22   that plan was approved.

23                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you.

24                And will the sponsor continue to 

25   yield.


                                                               2355

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

 2   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 5   Senator yields.

 6                SENATOR O'MARA:   Do you have an 

 7   idea or a ballpark on what the statewide needs 

 8   are with the DOT?

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So apparently the 

10   state just last week got its information back 

11   from all areas of the state as to what the 

12   conditions were and what the projected needs are.  

13                So that is being put together now 

14   and hopefully will be ready so that when we are 

15   trying to get federal money for roads and capital 

16   infrastructure from the federal government, we 

17   will have current data, current proposals, and 

18   can move more quickly on the multiyear plan that 

19   I think Senator O'Mara and I both agree would be 

20   important to have for statewide transportation.  

21   But I don't have a dollar number now.

22                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you.  

23                Will the Senator continue to yield.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

25   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  


                                                               2356

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I will.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 3   Senator yields.

 4                SENATOR O'MARA:   There has been 

 5   some very nice increases to areas of local roads 

 6   and bridges that I've been an advocate for for a 

 7   long time, and increasing the CHIPS funding by 

 8   $100 million and increasing the Extreme Winter 

 9   Recovery funds by I believe $35 million.  So a 

10   very nice increase there.  There is a $50 million 

11   NY Works allotment that we've been led to believe 

12   is for the Pave-NY program.  Can you answer that?  

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I am told that 

14   you are correct, that that money is for the 

15   NY Pave program.

16                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you.

17                Will the sponsor continue to yield.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

19   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

22   Senator yields.

23                SENATOR O'MARA:   The state and 

24   municipal grants program -- SAM, as we refer to 

25   it -- is being refunded again this year at I 


                                                               2357

 1   believe $385 million, is that correct?

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 3                SENATOR O'MARA:   Will the sponsor 

 4   continue to yield.

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 7   Senator yields.

 8                SENATOR O'MARA:   How is that 

 9   $385 million to be distributed?

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So my 

11   understanding is it is a pot of money that is 

12   discretionary three-way.  I guess that means the 

13   Senate gets a third, the Assembly gets a third, 

14   and the Governor gets a third.  Yes.

15                SENATOR O'MARA:   Will the sponsor 

16   yield.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

18   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

21   Senator yields.

22                SENATOR O'MARA:   How much of that 

23   third to each house of the Legislature will be 

24   available to members of the minority conferences 

25   in the Senate and the Assembly?


                                                               2358

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I don't know the 

 2   answer.  I think it's above my pay grade.

 3                SENATOR O'MARA:   Will the sponsor 

 4   continue to yield.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 6   Krueger, do you continue to yield?

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 9   Senator yields.

10                SENATOR O'MARA:   At the time -- 

11   about three years ago now, I guess, when the 

12   minority and majority sides flipped here, there 

13   was a SAM program in effect.  And there were a 

14   number of projects that were in the works, 

15   various stages of in the works, that had been 

16   promised to municipalities, and they continue to 

17   be unfulfilled.  

18                And we continue to get asked when is 

19   that money going to be available for projects 

20   that in some instances municipalities may have 

21   already spent the money on, assuming the money 

22   was coming.  And we have basically reneged on 

23   that promise of those projects.

24                Is there any commitment of the 

25   Majority to move those stalled projects forward 


                                                               2359

 1   to provide what is really important relief to 

 2   many municipalities that are now, you know, 

 3   hanging by a thread with those resources not 

 4   coming through?  

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 6   Madam President.  Apparently because of COVID, 

 7   the whole program was put on pause, so no one's 

 8   getting the money, Majority or Minority members.  

 9   And that is very frustrating to anyone who was 

10   hoping they were seeing funds in a certain fiscal 

11   year.

12                So I think we can hope that as we 

13   move out of COVID, as we see new monies coming 

14   through from the federal government, that there 

15   will be a change of position by the Executive to 

16   release the earlier SAM dollars as well as the 

17   SAM dollars in this budget.  But as of today, I 

18   have personally no commitment from the Governor's 

19   office that they will be letting go of the 

20   old SAM money yet.  Or the new SAM money.

21                SENATOR O'MARA:   Will the sponsor 

22   continue to yield.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

24   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.


                                                               2360

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 2   Senator yields.

 3                SENATOR O'MARA:   Do you know 

 4   whether the third of the SAM money that had 

 5   previously been the Governor's share, whether 

 6   those projects were stalled as well or whether 

 7   they've continued to flow?

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   One moment.

 9                So I'm being -- it's being pointed 

10   out to me that Division of Budget issued 

11   something called the B1223 guidance Budget 

12   Bulletin where it stopped all SAM funds from 

13   being spent.  So yes, the Governor's money also 

14   was halted.

15                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the sponsor 

16   will continue to yield.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

18   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

21   Senator yields.

22                SENATOR O'MARA:   Will there be a 

23   commitment from this Majority of this house that 

24   projects through the SAM program that were put on 

25   hold, projects that were accounted for before the 


                                                               2361

 1   last election when the majority/minority shift 

 2   took place, whether there will be a commitment 

 3   from the current Majority to make good on the 

 4   promises that were made three years or more ago, 

 5   many of which were stalled long before COVID came 

 6   into the picture?

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So part of my 

 8   answer is it is above my pay grade.  

 9                And the other part of my answer is 

10   we didn't take the funds away when the house 

11   changed hands, and I don't expect that we would 

12   do it now.  We just simply haven't gotten a 

13   release of the money during this time period.

14                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the sponsor 

15   will continue to yield.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

17   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

20   Senator yields.

21                SENATOR O'MARA:   Well, my 

22   experience, Senator Krueger, in living this 

23   ordeal, that long before COVID these projects 

24   were held up by the Majority here -- and maybe as 

25   well by the Division of Budget, but in concert 


                                                               2362

 1   with this Majority -- long before COVID.  Yet 

 2   you, as you stand here today, can't give us any 

 3   assurance whether these prior commitments are 

 4   going to be honored as we look to spend another 

 5   $385 million on this program this year.

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 7   Madam President.  I am more than happy to follow 

 8   through for the Senator if he has a master list 

 9   of what he wants to make sure he has commitments 

10   on.  I am happy to here on the floor of the 

11   Senate say that I will go to our leader and 

12   discuss it with her and get him an answer.  That 

13   is the best I can do at this time.

14                SENATOR O'MARA:   Will the sponsor 

15   continue to yield.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

17   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

20   Senator yields.

21                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

22   Senator Krueger.

23                You are one of the few individuals 

24   at the upper levels of state government that 

25   still has credibility left with me.  I thank you 


                                                               2363

 1   for that.  And I will appreciate your efforts 

 2   going forward.

 3                I will state that, you know, the SAM 

 4   grants have typically only gone to majority 

 5   members, and that was the case when we were in 

 6   the majority.  And that's been the case the last 

 7   couple of years we've had it that you've been in 

 8   the majority.  And it pretty much works that way 

 9   in the Assembly too, although there is some 

10   smaller amounts there that go to the minority. 

11                It just seems to me fundamentally 

12   and patently unfair.  It was unfair when we did 

13   it.  I argued against it in our conference then, 

14   certainly knowing that someday this day would 

15   come and there was no fairness about it.  We all 

16   represent roughly the same amount of people and 

17   deserve to share in -- those kind of projects in 

18   our districts are just as important as they are 

19   in yours.  

20                So I would appreciate your 

21   willingness to at least look into the projects 

22   that are upheld.  So thank you for that.

23                Moving on to higher education, is 

24   there a five-year capital plan for SUNY and CUNY?  

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Changing staff.


                                                               2364

 1                No, there is no five-year capital 

 2   plan for CUNY or SUNY.

 3                SENATOR O'MARA:   So will the 

 4   Senator continue to yield.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

 6   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 9   Senator yields.

10                SENATOR O'MARA:   So we're just on a 

11   year-to-year basis, then, with capital for SUNY 

12   and CUNY?  

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Unfortunately, 

14   it's been quite a few years without capital money 

15   at all.  So yes, I guess we're on a year by year 

16   or every once in a while there's some money we 

17   get to use for capital for CUNY/SUNY.

18                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the Senator 

19   will continue to yield.

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

22   Krueger continues to yield.

23                SENATOR O'MARA:   Could you lay out 

24   for us what the capital spending is for SUNY and 

25   CUNY in this capital projects bill?


                                                               2365

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   One hundred 

 2   million dollars each.

 3                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the sponsor 

 4   will continue to --

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Sorry, just to 

 6   clarify.  CUNY is also getting a separate 

 7   $10 million for a Green Energy Plan for their 

 8   campuses.  And SUNY is also getting 10 million, 

 9   but theirs is for Educational Opportunity 

10   Centers.  So they're each getting 110 million.

11                SENATOR O'MARA:   Okay.  Thank you 

12   for that.  

13                And if the Senator will continue to 

14   yield.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator, 

16   will you continue to yield?  

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

19   Senator yields.

20                SENATOR O'MARA:   I'm glad you 

21   mentioned the green projects because I forgot to 

22   ask a question before on the bond act, the Green 

23   Bond Act.  That still has to go before the voters 

24   in November for approval, correct?  

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   It's actually 


                                                               2366

 1   going to be in this budget, but not go to the 

 2   voters until the '22 November election.  So the 

 3   spending, assuming the voters approve it, won't 

 4   really be until '23.

 5                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the sponsor 

 6   will continue to yield.

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 9   Krueger, will you continue to yield?  

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

12   Senator yields.

13                SENATOR O'MARA:   So then based on 

14   that, then, this $3 billion for green projects, 

15   we're not moving forward on anything for at least 

16   two years.

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Unfortunately.  I 

18   would have preferred a different storyline, but 

19   yes.

20                SENATOR O'MARA:   Then why is it in 

21   this year's budget?

22                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Because it was 

23   originally in a previous year's budget and got 

24   pulled out.  There was concern that it would 

25   perhaps never come back.  So we worked hard to 


                                                               2367

 1   make sure we got the commitment that this is 

 2   going to happen.  But the agreement with the 

 3   Executive was to wait until the following year to 

 4   actually do the bond act vote.

 5                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the sponsor 

 6   will continue to yield.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:    

 8   Senator Krueger --

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.  Yes.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   -- 

11   continues to yield.

12                SENATOR O'MARA:   Now, just explain, 

13   I guess, to us the process of -- we authorized a 

14   bond of $3 billion in last year's budget that was 

15   to go to the voters in November, and then we got 

16   struck with COVID and that bond action to go to 

17   the referendum was pulled back.

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Correct.

19                SENATOR O'MARA:   What is the 

20   process on -- how does that work?  After we'd 

21   approved the bond act from here, whose decision 

22   ultimately was it to say no, we're not going 

23   forward with it.

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So last year the 

25   language in the budget allowed the Division of 


                                                               2368

 1   Budget to delay the bond act going forward.  This 

 2   year that is not the case.  So we are trying hard 

 3   to make sure that this bond act does happen, does 

 4   go to the people for a vote, and hopefully they 

 5   will vote for it and we'll have this money to 

 6   spend.

 7                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the Senator 

 8   will continue to yield.

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

11   Krueger continues to yield.

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

13                SENATOR O'MARA:   Is the date of 

14   that referendum set in this capital projects 

15   bill?  And when is that date?  And can that date 

16   be changed, and by who?  

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   No, I don't think 

18   it's an appropriation question.

19                So the date would be whatever date 

20   is the November 2022 general election, which I 

21   guess then is set in stone, I'm pretty sure.

22                SENATOR O'MARA:   Yup.

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   And we do not 

24   give the Budget Director the authority to delay 

25   it moving forward.  


                                                               2369

 1                So, knock on wood -- you know, you 

 2   never know when a new crisis is going to hit, and 

 3   you shouldn't joke about them anymore, because 

 4   they do -- but that we should be able to get this 

 5   to the voters in the November general election.

 6                SENATOR O'MARA:   In 2022.

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   In 2022, yes, 

 8   sir.

 9                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you.  

10                I think the last area, if the 

11   Senator will continue to yield, that I have a 

12   couple of questions on.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator, 

14   will you continue to yield?  

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

17   Senator yields.

18                SENATOR O'MARA:   The Empire Station 

19   Complex, which is -- I assume that's the Moynihan 

20   Train Station?

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Well, it's a 

22   trick question.  

23                (Laughter.)

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So there is 

25   Penn Station.  Then we've opened the Moynihan 


                                                               2370

 1   station or hallway, which is now the 

 2   entrance/exit for the Amtrak trains, and it is 

 3   geographically across the street from 

 4   Penn Station.  So there are two stations, 

 5   Moynihan, Penn.  

 6                And then there is a proposal for an 

 7   Empire Station Complex that, depending on how you 

 8   read the draft, might or might not merge all of 

 9   them together, might or might not have anything 

10   to do with Penn Station at all, but rather be the 

11   aboveground changes to the neighborhood.

12                SENATOR O'MARA:   Okay.  If the 

13   Senator will continue to yield.

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.  Certainly.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

16   Krueger continues to yield.

17                SENATOR O'MARA:   And what I have 

18   been reading of late about this project, there is 

19   quite a bit of consternation of the locals to the 

20   changing of the character of that neighborhood, 

21   eliminating low-income housing.  Small businesses 

22   that are located there are being replaced with a 

23   number of super-high-rise buildings.

24                Is this project a project that's a 

25   priority of the State Senate, or is this solely 


                                                               2371

 1   the priority of the Governor?  

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I've not surveyed 

 3   the State Senate, so I don't know.  I think it is 

 4   a priority of the Governor.  

 5                And I do feel confident standing 

 6   here saying that the immediate Senator for the 

 7   area, Brad Hoylman, and myself, the next-door 

 8   neighbor Senator, Liz Krueger, have both had 

 9   great concerns about this plan going forward and 

10   the lack of participation by New York City 

11   government, the community boards, the neighbors, 

12   other electeds.  

13                And he's shaking his head yes, so I 

14   know I'm on safe territory to say what I just 

15   said.

16                (Laughter.)

17                SENATOR O'MARA:   Good evening, 

18   Brad.

19                If the Senator will continue to 

20   yield.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

22   Krueger --

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.  Yes.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

25   Senator agrees to yield.


                                                               2372

 1                SENATOR O'MARA:   Now, the capital 

 2   identified for this Empire Station Complex is 

 3   $1.3 billion.  With all of these concerns over 

 4   the project from yourself and the resident 

 5   Senator Hoylman, why are we approving this 

 6   capital expenditure for something that's that 

 7   controversial and apparently not even ready to go 

 8   yet?

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So the language 

10   in the budget is quite different than as proposed 

11   by the Governor.  

12                So the language is now that he could 

13   only go to PACB to request the bonding authority 

14   specifically for Penn Station and the train 

15   functions of the station, on transportation, and 

16   only after there was an approved plan for the 

17   entire project.  

18                And one of the frustrations we have 

19   had is that there was an effort to move forward 

20   with the money before there was even an approved 

21   plan, but that which we had seen said nothing 

22   about Penn Station or trains at all.  So the new 

23   language would require that there -- that PACB 

24   could not approve going forward with the bonds 

25   until such time as there was a 


                                                               2373

 1   community-approved -- I think they call it 

 2   general community plan?  General project plan -- 

 3   with explicit details about the rail station and 

 4   the rebuild of such.  And that this money could 

 5   only be used for those purposes, not for the 

 6   aboveground everything-under-the-sun proposals.

 7                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the Senator 

 8   will continue to yield.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

10   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

11                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

13   Senator yields.

14                SENATOR O'MARA:   Who is responsible 

15   or has the authority of that community plan 

16   review and approval?  What body makes up that 

17   decision?  

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So there was a -- 

19   is a subsidiary of Empire State Development that 

20   in some way is its own authority overseeing the 

21   project.  And they've created a -- either it's a 

22   committee or a multiple set of committees to work 

23   on the assignment together.  

24                There was real concern about who was 

25   doing what and were they going to complete the 


                                                               2374

 1   process and were they even bringing anyone into 

 2   the room.

 3                Actually, I think that because the 

 4   Governor put this money into the budget, and 

 5   because some of us saw it and said what the heck 

 6   is going on and started to talk to our community 

 7   members, our community boards, our local 

 8   electeds, city government and the media, that the 

 9   Governor's people changed approach.  So there is 

10   now a schedule for a series of these meetings 

11   with commitments to actually lead to group 

12   agreement.  

13                I don't know if it will work or not.  

14   I just know that I feel much more confident now 

15   that this money will not be released unless there 

16   is a community agreement behind what we're doing, 

17   at least with the Penn Station part of the 

18   project.

19                And that's frankly the important 

20   part.  It is true, if you've ever come to 

21   New York City by train into Penn Station, you 

22   really do get off and go, How can this amazing 

23   city have such a god-awful train station?  So we 

24   don't debate whether we need a new improved 

25   Penn Station.  We don't debate that we need more 


                                                               2375

 1   rail coming into the station, more slots for the 

 2   transits to pull in, more trains that can 

 3   actually pull in, more interconnection 

 4   underground between the Amtrak trains and the 

 5   New York Long Island Rail Road trains, 

 6   Metro-North trains.  

 7                So we need all of that.  And we're 

 8   prepared and I believe it's in the best interests 

 9   of the State of New York to want to invest in 

10   that.  But we're just not sure what we're doing 

11   aboveground with, as you described it, 10 

12   super-tall towers, using eminent domain to 

13   potentially tear down up to 50 buildings in a 

14   five-block area.  

15                Even the argument that this is 

16   justified because the aboveground area is 

17   blighted and poverty-stricken -- I walk that area 

18   constantly.  That is Brad Hoylman's territory.  

19   We don't have blighted, poverty-stricken areas in 

20   our districts, frankly, period.  And that's 

21   certainly not how I would describe that area.

22                So we had real concerns.  We 

23   actually think that the attention we've gotten 

24   around this issue just in the last two weeks is 

25   going to jump-start a much better model for going 


                                                               2376

 1   forward.

 2                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you for 

 3   that.

 4                On the bill.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 6   O'Mara on the bill.

 7                SENATOR O'MARA:   I am certainly in 

 8   agreement with Senator Krueger on the lack of a 

 9   welcoming nature of Penn Station, so to speak, on 

10   people arriving to New York City.  Certainly 

11   nothing like Grand Central Station and that great 

12   gateway that that is for so many.

13                I believe the Port Authority Bus 

14   Terminal yields a similar or even less welcoming 

15   environment than Penn Station does, but I believe 

16   that's a viable project.

17                However, I have concerns with this 

18   money being in there, and I'm glad it's at least 

19   a go-ahead only for Penn Station unless this 

20   community plan gets approved.  But I have grave 

21   concerns that this is yet one more body that is 

22   created by and controlled by Governor Cuomo and 

23   he will ultimately get whatever outcome he wants 

24   through this process.

25                The fact that it's a subsidiary of 


                                                               2377

 1   Empire State Development certainly leads me to 

 2   believe that the Governor would have the lion's 

 3   share of control over this and be able to get a 

 4   conclusion that may be foregone already.  And 

 5   that this language in this bill isn't strong 

 6   enough to prevent that from happening and 

 7   actually really having a solid community plan 

 8   with all aspects, all groups coming to a 

 9   consensus and agreement of that use.

10                So thank you for the answers to the 

11   questions.  I'm all set.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you.  

13                Are there any other Senators wishing 

14   to be heard?

15                Seeing and hearing none, debate is 

16   closed.  The Secretary will ring the bell.  

17                Read the last section.

18                THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

19   act shall take effect immediately.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Call the 

21   roll.

22                (The Secretary called the roll.)

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

24   Kennedy to explain his vote.

25                SENATOR KENNEDY:   Thank you very 


                                                               2378

 1   much, Madam President.

 2                I'm here today to explain my vote on 

 3   this capital budget item, particularly as it 

 4   pertains to transportation.  

 5                I want to start by thanking the 

 6   leader of the Senate, Majority Leader Andrea 

 7   Stewart-Cousins, for her leadership, her 

 8   commitment, and quite frankly for making a 

 9   decision to prioritize transportation across this 

10   state as we put forward a visionary budget for 

11   the future and we make strategic investments all 

12   across this state -- some, and many, that have 

13   never been made, others that haven't been 

14   invested in in years, and others disinvested in 

15   over decades and generations.  So my hat's off to 

16   the Majority Leader.

17                I want to recognize the 

18   transportation team that worked so diligently on 

19   the Senate one-house and ultimately that pushed 

20   on the Senate side to get this over the finish 

21   line.  Our colleagues in the Democratic 

22   Conference that worked to make sure that the 

23   issues we're talking about that prioritized 

24   transportation, be it public transportation, be 

25   it local roads, be it the investment into 


                                                               2379

 1   infrastructure of historic proportions -- and 

 2   that's what this capital projects budget does -- 

 3   takes precedence.

 4                You know, this budget that we're 

 5   approving here today from a capital perspective 

 6   alone adds over a quarter of a billion dollars 

 7   more to local roads across this state than we had 

 8   just last year.  These are historic levels of 

 9   funding.  

10                You know, the roads in every single 

11   community matter.  The roads in every single 

12   community, every single municipality are getting 

13   infused with more money.  That's because for the 

14   first time since 2013, we're getting an increase 

15   in CHIPS funds.  It's all done by equation and 

16   program numbers.  One hundred million dollars 

17   more on to the $438 million that's been there 

18   every year since 2013, a 23 percent increase.  

19   That's a big deal.

20                Every single highway superintendent 

21   in the state has been clamoring for more money.  

22   Every single municipality in the state, 

23   especially in areas of upstate that get hammered 

24   with the inclement weather, have been clamoring 

25   for more money.  Well, they're going to get it in 


                                                               2380

 1   CHIPS.  And then $50 million more, a 50 percent 

 2   increase to Pave-NY, on top of the $100 million.  

 3   Now, that funding hasn't been increased since 

 4   2017.  Another priority for maintaining and 

 5   making sure that our communities have the 

 6   resources necessary to provide for the 

 7   infrastructure.  

 8                On top of that, another $35 million 

 9   on the Extreme Winter Recovery on top of the 

10   $65 million that we restored in cuts -- 

11   $100 million to that program.  Again, all of 

12   New York State benefits, particularly areas that 

13   are battered.  And now we know we have the spring 

14   thaw here.  We know the roads are opening up.  

15   But for years and years, our communities have not 

16   had the resources necessary to maintain these 

17   roads to the level that our communities deserve.

18                And then what I'm particularly proud 

19   of, Madam President, is the $100 million City 

20   Touring Roads initiative that is going to 

21   directly infuse $100 million into the cities 

22   across this state that have been desperate for 

23   funding.  As we try to rejuvenate this state, and 

24   especially areas of the state where we've been 

25   bleeding people into the urban cores that make up 


                                                               2381

 1   the central economic zones of our regions across 

 2   the state, and the tax base has eroded over 

 3   decades, and those cities have not had the 

 4   resources necessary to put into the 

 5   infrastructure to support the businesses that are 

 6   coming in -- they're now going to have that 

 7   money.  Because this conference and the 

 8   leadership in this conference, Majority Leader 

 9   Stewart-Cousins, decided to prioritize our roads 

10   and our infrastructure and our public 

11   transportation.

12                It's a big deal.  It's historic.  

13   And this is the baseline moving forward for what 

14   we're going to do year in and year out moving 

15   forward.  Just do the simple math.  You put over 

16   a quarter of a billion dollars into roads and 

17   infrastructure across this state, year after 

18   year, that's going to make a massive difference.

19                Now, you leverage the federal 

20   funding that we hope is coming and I believe is 

21   coming because of the federal administration's 

22   commitment to infrastructure, a two to four 

23   trillion dollar plan that's going to result in 

24   the funding necessary to do these transformative 

25   large projects in everyone's district that people 


                                                               2382

 1   have been waiting for their entire lives, that 

 2   they've only dreamt of, now it's going to be a 

 3   reality.

 4                There are many folks that I want to 

 5   thank.  I thank the leadership.  I thank our 

 6   conference.  But staff deserves to be recognized.  

 7   I want to thank my committee clerk, Rick Rodgers, 

 8   who worked so diligently on these issues, along 

 9   with McKayla Mulhern, my policy director; Adam 

10   Fogel, my chief of staff; our counsel here, the 

11   chief of staff, Shontell Smith; Chris Higgins, 

12   her deputy; Dan Ranellone; Dave Friedfel; Allison 

13   Bradley; and Dave Frazier, who sat at the table 

14   and drove this agenda day after day after day 

15   because he knew, like we know, that if you invest 

16   strategically into our infrastructure it will 

17   leverage private-sector development, it will 

18   leverage economic growth, it will leverage job 

19   creation and opportunity.  And that's what this 

20   bill accomplishes.

21                Thank you, Madam President.  I'm 

22   proud to vote aye.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

24   Kennedy to be recorded in the affirmative.

25                Senator Hoylman to explain his vote.


                                                               2383

 1                SENATOR HOYLMAN:   Thank you, 

 2   Madam President.  

 3                I want to thank Leader 

 4   Stewart-Cousins, Finance Chair Krueger and the 

 5   entire staff for this transformative budget 

 6   that's going to lead our state out of this 

 7   pandemic.  

 8                But I have to say I'm going to be 

 9   voting against this bill because it has a single 

10   provision that includes $1.3 billion for the 

11   Governor's Empire Station Complex project.

12                You know, I was reminded in the 

13   debate earlier about coming out of Penn Station, 

14   and there's that quote by the historian Vincent 

15   Scully who said, "Before the old Penn Station was 

16   demolished, one entered the city like a god.  One 

17   scuttles in now like a rat."  And there is some 

18   truth to that.

19                This plan is supposedly being used 

20   to fund transit improvements at Penn Station, 

21   which I strongly support.  But in reality, I 

22   believe it's a down payment on a huge commercial 

23   real estate project.  In total, the Empire 

24   Station Complex real estate plan envisions nearly 

25   20 million square feet of new commercial 


                                                               2384

 1   development, consisting of 10 buildings, 

 2   including at least eight super-tall towers.  

 3                To do this, the state plans to 

 4   demolish rent-stabilized apartments, historic 

 5   buildings, and nearly 500 small businesses and 

 6   nonprofits.  New York City's land use laws aren't 

 7   going to apply to the project, so local community 

 8   boards, city government and elected officials are 

 9   going to be locked out of important decisions.  

10                Also this project is reliant on 

11   commercial development at levels expected before 

12   COVID hit and any of us knew what a Zoom meeting 

13   was.  The glut of office space that exists in 

14   Manhattan already exceeds 17 percent.  So we 

15   can't absorb new offices, especially empty ones, 

16   and especially, doubly, when we should be using 

17   capital project funds for the construction of 

18   supportive and affordable housing.

19                Finally, we've seen no Penn Station 

20   master plan, including the full extent of the 

21   proposed transit improvements and how and if 

22   they're dependent on the real estate development.  

23   Before we sign the check, I think we should see 

24   the plans.  

25                So for these reasons and because of 


                                                               2385

 1   the impact on my local community, including some 

 2   of the vague language, even though I appreciated 

 3   the attempts to tighten it, I will be voting no.

 4                Thank you, Madam President.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 6   Hoylman to be recorded in the negative.

 7                Senator Kavanagh to explain his 

 8   vote.

 9                SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Thank you, 

10   Madam President.

11                I rise just to discuss the many, 

12   many different aspects of this capital budget 

13   bill.  But I wanted to just highlight a few 

14   aspects that address housing needs of the state.  

15                We are going to pass today a series 

16   of different bills that collectively represent a 

17   very significant investment in housing and in 

18   prevention of homelessness.  And the housing 

19   portions covering both homeowners and renters 

20   throughout our state, and both dealing with the 

21   emergency needs that have arisen from COVID-19 

22   and also from our long-term commitment to try to 

23   make New York a state where no one is out of 

24   housing because they can't afford it.

25                So the capital budget bill -- you 


                                                               2386

 1   know, we're going to talk later about COVID 

 2   emergency rental assistance and a new program for 

 3   homeless New Yorkers.  But this bill I just want 

 4   to note, first of all, contains $100 million that 

 5   is intended to support our efforts to convert 

 6   underused hotels and other commercial properties 

 7   to affordable housing.  That's something that 

 8   Senator Gianaris has worked on a great deal.  

 9                And we're putting forth $100 million 

10   with the understanding that we need to have 

11   further conversations with the Executive about 

12   what that program will look like.

13                There's also a significant but sadly 

14   not sufficient investment in public housing.  The 

15   Senate and the Assembly both proposed $750 

16   million in new capital for the New York City 

17   Housing Authority, which is in desperate need of 

18   capital for repairs and renovation.  And 

19   unfortunately, pursuant to the agreement with the 

20   Executive, we're only doing $200 million, which 

21   is significant but again falls short of where we 

22   hoped to be and where we need to be.

23                And there's also an additional 

24   $125 million for other public housing authorities 

25   around the state.  


                                                               2387

 1                We also have a new investment of 

 2   $186 million in capital funding for the 

 3   Supportive Housing Program.  That is part of a 

 4   15-year effort to create 20,000 new units of 

 5   supportive housing.  The state, as I'm sure you 

 6   know, Madam President, is at the end of our 

 7   five-year capital plan that was announced 

 8   five years ago.  And unfortunately, we don't have 

 9   a comprehensive capital plan going forward.  But 

10   we have now funded the sixth year of the 

11   supportive housing commitment at $186 million.

12                There's a new program of $25 million 

13   for vacant and blighted housing.  There is 

14   $130 million of new money for the state's effort 

15   on storm recovery.  Unfortunately, many 

16   communities are still suffering from some of the 

17   damage that was done from several of the 

18   superstorms that rolled through our state many 

19   years ago.

20                And I think that's all for now.  

21   I'll be back later to talk about COVID emergency 

22   rental assistance and homelessness and some other 

23   matters that are in other bills.  But for now, I 

24   vote aye on the capital budget.  

25                Thank you.


                                                               2388

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 2   Kavanagh to be recorded in the affirmative.

 3                Senator Hinchey to explain her vote.

 4                SENATOR HINCHEY:   Thank you, 

 5   Madam President.

 6                Upstate New York needs capital 

 7   investment.  Our communities have water 

 8   infrastructure that's up to a hundred years old.  

 9   This bill provides $500 million for water 

10   infrastructure.  

11                During the Christmas storm, we had 

12   roads that quite literally washed away.  And this 

13   bill restores funding to the Extreme Winter 

14   Recovery Fund.  

15                We have aging roads and crumbling 

16   bridges, and this bill provides an additional 

17   $100 million in CHIPS funding that will go such a 

18   far way for municipalities to restore and retain 

19   and repair our roads and bridges and highways.

20                What's also in this bill is the EPF 

21   that provides millions of dollars in farmland 

22   protection and also, for the first time ever, it 

23   includes funding on par for the Catskills Park, 

24   on par with the Adirondacks, for overusage.

25                As we head into tourism season and 


                                                               2389

 1   the summer, our parks, specifically the Catskills 

 2   Park, have seen incredible usage, increased 

 3   tourism, and especially that's grown during 

 4   COVID-19.  And we know people are going to 

 5   continue to come to our communities.  This bill, 

 6   for the first time on par with the Adirondacks, 

 7   provides funding for the Catskills Park, 

 8   specifically for infrastructure and overusage.

 9                So for that reason, this is an 

10   incredibly important bill, and I vote aye.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

12   Hinchey to be recorded in the affirmative.

13                Senator Ryan to explain his vote.

14                SENATOR RYAN:   Thank you, 

15   Madam President.  Good to see you this afternoon.  

16                As chair of the Libraries Committee, 

17   I would like to highlight that the budget 

18   includes $34 million in funding for Library 

19   Construction Aid.  You may recall last year, in 

20   the height of the pandemic, we trimmed 

21   $20 million of capital out of this program, and 

22   we're so happy that this year we're adding that 

23   $20 million back in.  And what better way to 

24   celebrate National Library Week than to restore 

25   this vital capital money.


                                                               2390

 1                The increased funding will support 

 2   new constructions of libraries throughout the 

 3   state, but it will also support vital 

 4   maintenance, renovation and expansion of 

 5   facilities.  This funding will allow libraries to 

 6   address the critical needs of the digital divide 

 7   within communities throughout the state.  And as 

 8   we know, the pandemic has highlighted just how 

 9   crucial libraries are to addressing digital 

10   equity issues and other societal issues 

11   throughout the state and the nation.

12                So this funding will allow libraries 

13   to continue to do the great work that has been a 

14   lifeline to New Yorkers, especially during the 

15   pandemic.  

16                So Madam President, I thank you, as 

17   chair of the Education Committee, in helping this 

18   funding come to fruition, and I withdraw my 

19   request and I vote in the affirmative.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you.  

21   Senator Ryan to be recorded in the affirmative.

22                Announce the results.

23                THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

24   Calendar 649, those Senators voting in the 

25   negative are Senators Akshar, Biaggi, Borrello, 


                                                               2391

 1   Boyle, Brisport, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, 

 2   Hoylman, Jordan, Lanza, Martucci, Mattera, 

 3   Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Ramos, Rath, 

 4   Ritchie, Salazar, Serino, Stec, Tedisco and Weik.

 5                Ayes, 38.  Nays, 25.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The bill 

 7   is passed.

 8                Senator Myrie, that completes the 

 9   reading of the controversial calendar.

10                SENATOR MYRIE:   There will be a 

11   meeting of the Finance Committee in Room 332 at 

12   10:00 p.m.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   There will 

14   be a meeting of the Finance Committee in Room 332 

15   at 10:00 p.m.

16                SENATOR MYRIE:   The Senate will 

17   stand at ease.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The Senate 

19   will stand at ease.

20                (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease 

21   at 6:35 p.m.)

22                (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at 

23   8:15 p.m.)

24                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The Senate 

25   will come to order.


                                                               2392

 1                Senator Gianaris.

 2                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

 3   there will be an immediate meeting of the 

 4   Finance Committee in Room 332.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   There will 

 6   be an immediate meeting of the Finance Committee 

 7   in Room 332.

 8                SENATOR GIANARIS:   The Senate will 

 9   stand at ease.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The Senate 

11   will stand at ease.

12                (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease 

13   at 8:15 p.m.)

14                (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at 

15   8:27 p.m.)

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The Senate 

17   will return to order.

18                Senator Gianaris.

19                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

20   there's a report of the Finance Committee at the 

21   desk.  Can we take that up, please.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

23   Secretary will read.

24                THE SECRETARY:   Senator Krueger, 

25   from the Committee on Finance, reports the 


                                                               2393

 1   following bill:  

 2                Senate Print 2503C, Senate Budget 

 3   Bill, an act making appropriations for the 

 4   support of government:  AID TO LOCALITIES BUDGET.  

 5                The bill is reported direct to third 

 6   reading.

 7                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to accept 

 8   the report of the Finance Committee.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   All those 

10   in favor of accepting the report of the Finance 

11   Committee signify by saying aye.

12                (Response of "Aye.")

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Opposed, 

14   nay.

15                (No response.)

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

17   Finance Committee report is accepted.

18                Senator Gianaris.

19                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Can we take up 

20   the supplemental calendar, please.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

22   Secretary will read.

23                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

24   650, Senate Print 2503C, Senate Budget Bill, an 

25   act making appropriations for the support of 


                                                               2394

 1   government.

 2                SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

 3                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

 4   I believe there's a message of necessity at the 

 5   desk.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   There is a 

 7   message of necessity at the desk.

 8                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to accept 

 9   the message of necessity.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   All in 

11   favor of accepting the message of necessity 

12   signify by saying aye.

13                (Response of "Aye.")

14                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Opposed?  

15                (Response of "Nay.")

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

17   message is accepted, and the bill is before the 

18   house.

19                SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The bill 

21   is laid aside.

22                Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

23   reading of the supplemental calendar.

24                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Can we now move 

25   to the controversial calendar, please.


                                                               2395

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 2   Secretary will ring the bell.

 3                The Secretary will read.

 4                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 5   650, Senate Print 2503C, Senate Budget Bill, an 

 6   act making appropriations for the support of 

 7   government.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 9   Lanza, why do you rise?

10                SENATOR LANZA:   Madam President, I 

11   believe there's an amendment at the desk.  I 

12   waive the reading of that amendment and ask that 

13   Senator Stec be recognized and heard.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

15   Senator Lanza.

16                Upon review of the amendment, in 

17   accordance with Rule 6, Section 4B, I rule it 

18   nongermane and out of order at this time.

19                SENATOR LANZA:   Accordingly, 

20   Madam President, I appeal the ruling of the chair 

21   and ask that Senator Stec be recognized.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The appeal 

23   has been made and recognized, and Senator Stec 

24   may be heard.

25                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 


                                                               2396

 1   Madam President.  

 2                I rise to argue that this amendment 

 3   before the house is very germane.  We're talking 

 4   about $2.1 billion of taxpayer funding, the 

 5   spending of which, the appropriation of which is 

 6   very germane to any budget bill.  

 7                Specifically, the $2.1 billion that 

 8   I'm talking about is this Excluded Workers Fund.  

 9   For those that may not be aware, the Excluded 

10   Workers Fund is essentially unemployment for 

11   those that were ineligible for unemployment.  

12                This is -- excluded workers are, by 

13   all accounts, people that are illegal immigrants 

14   or people that were recently released from prison 

15   and are not eligible to receive taxpayer funding, 

16   the math of which shows that over the next few 

17   months, and going back retroactively, this could 

18   amount to as much as $27,900 per person that is 

19   otherwise not eligible for these public funds.  

20                And frankly, it's been -- the vast 

21   majority of New Yorkers that I've heard from are 

22   very opposed to this spending.  

23                And what we've done is we're 

24   proposing by this amendment to replace the 

25   spending of $2.1 billion on illegal immigrants' 


                                                               2397

 1   unemployment, people that are working illegally 

 2   and haven't paid into the system, by any of a 

 3   number of other things that are already funded 

 4   that we would suggest be -- their funding be 

 5   supplemented, including paying down the balance 

 6   of unemployment funds borrowed from the federal 

 7   government during fiscal year '21, to ensure that 

 8   our small businesses do not have to pay an 

 9   interest assessment surcharge.  

10                Or perhaps a tax credit that would 

11   eliminate the state income tax liability for one 

12   year for New York residents that are earning less 

13   than $50,000 a year.  We could conform to the 

14   federal income tax exemption for the first 

15   $10,200 of unemployment received.  We could 

16   increase property tax relief checks.  We could 

17   provide funding for elder care, for distressed 

18   hospitals, and funding for mental health, not 

19   limited to the Joseph P. Dwyer funding for our 

20   veterans' mental health.  We could double the 

21   Empire State Tax Credit over one or more years.  

22   And we could expand broadband in rural parts of 

23   the state, parts of the state that need it, that 

24   don't have it, that deserve it, that we haven't 

25   been able to deliver on.  We could take some of 


                                                               2398

 1   this funding and we could put emphasis on 

 2   bringing broadband to rural and underserved and 

 3   perhaps more low-income communities.

 4                So any combination of these items 

 5   would be a better use of $2.1 billion than to 

 6   give it to people that are working illegally and 

 7   that are here illegally.  So for those reasons, 

 8   our argument is very germane.  

 9                Thank you, Madam President.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

11   Senator.  

12                I want to remind the house that the 

13   vote is on the procedures of the house and the 

14   ruling of the chair.

15                Those in favor of overruling the 

16   chair signify by saying aye.

17                SENATOR LANZA:   Request a show of 

18   hands.

19                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

20   we're going to waive the showing of hands by 

21   agreement and record each member of the Minority 

22   in the affirmative.  

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Without 

24   objection, so ordered.

25                Announce the results.


                                                               2399

 1                THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 20.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The ruling 

 3   of the chair stands, and the bill-in-chief is 

 4   before the house.

 5                Senator Stec.

 6                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

 7   Madam President.  If Senator Krueger would yield 

 8   for a few questions, please.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

10   Krueger, do you yield?  

11                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

13   Senator yields.

14                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

15   Madam President.  

16                Thank you, Senator Krueger.  Good 

17   evening to you.  

18                I'm going to jump around a few 

19   different areas, if I may, but I'd like to start 

20   with mental hygiene.  

21                And Madam President, through you to 

22   Senator Krueger.  For fiscal year 2021, 

23   jail-based substance use disorder treatment 

24   services were funded at $1.5 million, and for 

25   2021-2022, jail-based substance abuse disorder 


                                                               2400

 1   services are funded at nearly $8.8 million.  

 2                How will -- my question is how will 

 3   this increased funding be utilized, and can you 

 4   give a description of the enhanced services or 

 5   increased geographic area of service that comes 

 6   with this increase in funding?  

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Madam President, 

 8   through you, just give me one moment.  Thank you.

 9                SENATOR STEC:   Yes, ma'am.

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   What section was 

11   it, please?

12                SENATOR STEC:   In the mental 

13   hygiene section.

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Is there a part?  

15                SENATOR STEC:   I don't have the 

16   part handy in front of me, I'm sorry.  Through 

17   you, Madam President.

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

19   Madam Chair, my understanding is it is an ongoing 

20   program in our local jails.  It may be run 

21   differently depending on the jail and the people 

22   in charge.  But it is a recognized attempt to 

23   start drug treatment with people when they're 

24   under your care.

25                Because, to be honest, sometimes the 


                                                               2401

 1   toughest thing about getting someone to be 

 2   willing to participate in drug treatment is to 

 3   keep them sober and clean long enough that they 

 4   can start the program.  

 5                So it's my understanding that a 

 6   variety of sheriffs and other experts at drug 

 7   treatment had developed this program over a 

 8   series of years and found it very effective.  And 

 9   so this year there's money to expand that program 

10   to more jails around the state.

11                SENATOR STEC:   Madam President, if 

12   the sponsor would continue to yield, please.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

14   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, of course.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

17   Senator yields.

18                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, Madam 

19   President, through you.  

20                The Joseph P. Dwyer Veterans Peer to 

21   Peer is allocated for $5 million this year.  

22   However, 4.505 has been slotted to go to specific 

23   counties.  So my question is the remaining 

24   $495,000 that has been appropriated but not 

25   allocated to specific counties, can you account 


                                                               2402

 1   for where that 495 will be going, please.  

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 3   Madam President, it's my understanding that that 

 4   yet-to-be-allocated funding is within the control 

 5   of the Assembly.  So I don't think we know how 

 6   they will use that money.

 7                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

 8   Madam President.  If the Senator would continue 

 9   to yield, please.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

11   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

14   Senator yields.

15                SENATOR STEC:   Thanks, 

16   Madam President, through you.  If I could now 

17   jump to the health portion, Lyme and tick disease 

18   funding, something that's been very important 

19   certainly in my district and frankly all up and 

20   down the Hudson Valley.  

21                Sixty-nine thousand dollars has been 

22   allocated for Lyme and tick disease research and 

23   prevention in this year's budget.  It's a 

24   priority, certainly I think for all of us, to do 

25   everything we can in the research there.


                                                               2403

 1                My question, Madam President, 

 2   through you:  Does the budget increase funding 

 3   for Lyme and tick disease prevention, education 

 4   and research?  

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   It's my 

 6   understanding that the Executive had cut 69,000 

 7   from these programs.  We restored it and added to 

 8   it another 250,000.

 9                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you.

10                Madam President, if the sponsor 

11   would continue to yield.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

13   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

16   Senator yields.

17                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

18   Madam President.  Through you.  

19                Are you aware the Senate Republican 

20   Conference previously had had this funding for 

21   this research at a million dollars, and I believe 

22   in the last year or two it's been cut back to 

23   $250,000.  Why not increase this funding, since 

24   Lyme is nothing but a growing problem?  It's a 

25   bigger problem today than it was two or three 


                                                               2404

 1   years ago, and yet funding seems to be going in 

 2   the wrong direction.

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So the truth is I 

 4   don't know the answer, other than there's endless 

 5   requests for state funds for specific research 

 6   and services around different illnesses.  And I 

 7   suspect we could each make a list of the things 

 8   we had hoped that we'd see more money for but we 

 9   didn't.  

10                I know the people in my district are 

11   very upset because we cut out the funding for 

12   stem cell research and multiple stem cell 

13   research projects happen to be in my district, 

14   and they're laying off their staff and they don't 

15   understand how after so much success in the 

16   research that's being done we would cut off the 

17   funding.  And I had to tell them that I agree, I 

18   am very sorry that I wasn't able to keep their 

19   funding for them.

20                Tick research is obviously a very 

21   important issue tied into Lyme disease and other 

22   diseases that we know ticks carry.  But we're 

23   seeing a whole revolution in climate-change- 

24   related illnesses and the impact on our lives, 

25   COVID being the most obvious one.


                                                               2405

 1                So I suspect that we have a lot of 

 2   people out there doing important research around 

 3   important different diseases who would argue we 

 4   should have given them more money, and I would 

 5   probably agree with each of them.  

 6                What I don't know is whether under 

 7   the Biden administration there is more 

 8   opportunity for funding around some of these 

 9   issues than there was in the past.  I hope so.  

10   Because I think that illnesses correlating to 

11   transfer by ticks and other insects are 

12   definitely environmentally correlated and climate 

13   correlated, and we saw almost no interest in 

14   those topics whatsoever during the Trump 

15   administration.  And maybe we will find that 

16   Washington is more open to doing its job to help 

17   with national issues like this under the new 

18   administration.

19                SENATOR STEC:   Madam President, if 

20   the sponsor would continue to yield.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

22   Krueger, do you yield?  

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, of course.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

25   Senator yields.


                                                               2406

 1                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you.  Madam 

 2   President, through you.  

 3                If I could switch now to nursing 

 4   home reform funding, the Medicaid budget contains 

 5   $64 million to help nursing homes transition to 

 6   the new revenue mandate that requires nursing 

 7   homes spend a minimum of 70 percent of revenue on 

 8   direct patient care, including 40 percent on 

 9   resident-facing staffing.  

10                We've heard from dozens of nursing 

11   homes that these mandates are unrealistic and 

12   will devastate nursing home operations and will 

13   most likely force many to close.

14                So one question would be, do you 

15   think this amount is sufficient to make sure no 

16   nursing homes will close?  And if this amount is 

17   not enough, what will happen to patients in these 

18   nursing homes that will be forced to close?

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

20   Madam President, it's my understanding most 

21   nursing homes already meet these standards in 

22   New York, and this requirement is an attempt to 

23   deal with the fact that we have some nursing 

24   homes that are not following these guidelines, 

25   and we're getting worse outcomes for the people 


                                                               2407

 1   who live there, so that we want to make sure we 

 2   have an even playing field at these higher 

 3   standards.  

 4                But again, we believe that there is 

 5   the capacity to meet these standards because the 

 6   majority of nursing homes already do.

 7                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

 8   Madam President.  If Senator Krueger would 

 9   continue to yield.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

11   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

14   Senator yields.

15                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

16   Madam President.  

17                Senator Krueger, if I could jump now 

18   to human services -- I'm on a lot of 

19   committees -- and specifically the OCFS.  And if 

20   I could, Madam President, through you, 

21   eliminating the state share of the Committee on 

22   Special Education.  In fiscal year '21 the 

23   enacted budget eliminated the existing 

24   18.4 percent state share, placing fiscal 

25   responsibility with the social service district 


                                                               2408

 1   and the school district responsible for 

 2   placement.  And this year's '22 Executive Budget 

 3   proposes to make the current funding structure 

 4   permanent, and the Executive claims that this 

 5   will produce a $28 million annual savings.  

 6                Both the Senate and the Assembly 

 7   one-house proposals rejected this and provided 

 8   the $22 million in funding for the state share.  

 9   The modified proposal does not include the share 

10   of 22 million.  

11                So my question would be by not 

12   restoring the 22 million, what impact would this 

13   have on local social service districts to make up 

14   the difference, and will this cost be passed on 

15   to families with disabled children?

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So it's been 

17   suggested that this is a better question to ask 

18   during the Article VII bill.  Although it will be 

19   the same question then, so I understand.  

20                And I -- but I don't actually have 

21   an answer to the decision that was made to not 

22   successfully fight the Executive's cut.  For all 

23   I know, we did fight, but not successfully.  But 

24   I will try to get an answer for the Article VII 

25   period, and maybe a better answer than I'm 


                                                               2409

 1   offering right now.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 3   Gianaris.

 4                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Thank you, 

 5   Madam President.

 6                Just for purposes of clarification, 

 7   there's going to be a series of issues for which 

 8   the appropriations are contained in this bill, 

 9   and I think it's certainly appropriate for 

10   members who are debating to ask questions about 

11   the dollar amounts and the sums.  

12                But the programmatic language will 

13   appear in the bills that will be coming later 

14   this evening, and I would suggest that the debate 

15   about the programs themselves be more appropriate 

16   for the bill that contains the Article VII 

17   language.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

19   Senator Gianaris.

20                SENATOR STEC:   Madam President, if 

21   I may continue, if the sponsor would yield.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

23   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Absolutely.

25                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 


                                                               2410

 1   Madam President.

 2                I will point out that it is -- we're 

 3   being asked to vote on a bill with information we 

 4   don't have that we're told that we can ask later.  

 5   I just think that's -- that's not good 

 6   government, to be asked to vote on spending money 

 7   now but we can ask the questions we want to ask 

 8   hours from now on another bill.  That seems a 

 9   funny way to do business.  

10                But with that said, I'll continue 

11   with my question.  Let me ask this.  Have 

12   districts raised any complaints about the lack of 

13   funding?  Madam President, through you.

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Have districts 

15   raised issues about these funds.

16                SENATOR STEC:   Correct.  Issues or 

17   concerns, yes. 

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   You're absolutely 

19   right that if we separate out the bills in 

20   different orders and that I tell you we haven't 

21   gotten to that yet because we haven't gotten to 

22   that bill, but money for that is tied into this 

23   bill, that that is just a fundamental catch-22 of 

24   how we do bills and vote on them here.

25                So I just want to tell you that I 


                                                               2411

 1   agree with you, that there's something wrong with 

 2   that system.  I don't know what the fix is.  

 3   Maybe you do the numbers bill and the matching 

 4   Article VII bill and then you vote on both of 

 5   them together after you've dealt with both of 

 6   them.  I don't know if anybody's ever tried that.  

 7   I don't think we're going to start at quarter to 

 8   nine tonight.  But it is something to give 

 9   serious thought to.

10                On your question about whether any 

11   school districts have raised issues about this, 

12   again, the frustration is I have an education 

13   expert here, but she happens to be the president 

14   pro tem at the moment.  As opposed to when we get 

15   to the education section, where I believe she 

16   will be answering questions.  

17                But she's the best one to answer 

18   your question, because to be honest, school 

19   districts don't tend to come to talk to Liz 

20   Krueger.

21                I will just double-check whether 

22   there's -- I think we have to get our education 

23   staff person.  Our best person is the president 

24   pro tem, but we're going to see if we can get the 

25   second-best person.


                                                               2412

 1                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

 2   to answering Senator Stec's question, you're 

 3   witnessing why we like to do things in the way 

 4   they're supposed to be done.  Because now we have 

 5   to wait for the appropriate staff to come down, 

 6   answer his question, when they were prepared to 

 7   be here when the programmatic language is 

 8   actually before us, which it is not right now.

 9                So Senator Krueger is doing her best 

10   to try and accommodate the Senator, but we can't 

11   go through this entire bill asking programmatic 

12   questions on all the various issues that the 

13   members want to debate, or we'll be here all 

14   night waiting for staff to come shuttling back 

15   and forth.  

16                So there's an order -- there's a 

17   reason why we were suggesting the order the way 

18   we are.

19                SENATOR STEC:   Madam President, 

20   while we're waiting for our expert on education, 

21   if I could just in the dialogue, through you, 

22   Madam President -- 

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   I'm sorry, 

24   may I interrupt you briefly to say that I believe 

25   the staff person for Finance education is here 


                                                               2413

 1   now.

 2                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

 3   Madam President.

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm sorry, 

 5   Senator, can I ask you to repeat the question -- 

 6                SENATOR STEC:   You sure can.

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   -- to make sure I 

 8   get it correct?  

 9                SENATOR STEC:   Madam President, 

10   through you, my question was regarding the 

11   Executive Budget removing $22 million and were 

12   districts raising any complaints or concerns 

13   about this lack of funding in the budget.  The 

14   local social service districts.

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

16   Madam President, our understanding is that we 

17   also objected to this, school districts are 

18   complaining, and that the best we could do right 

19   now is a one-year extender.

20                SENATOR STEC:   Madam President, 

21   through you, if I can continue to ask just a 

22   couple more questions on a related subject.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

24   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I will do my 


                                                               2414

 1   best.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 3   Krueger yields.

 4                SENATOR STEC:   I appreciate that, 

 5   Madam President, Senator Krueger.  And I 

 6   appreciate your time, your candor, your effort.  

 7                But by way of furthering our 

 8   dialogue, I would editorialize a little as I 

 9   introduce my next question that getting these 

10   bills three days before and allowing them to age 

11   so that we can all look at them would eliminate a 

12   lot of these questions of, Well, we'll find out 

13   the answer to this question when we brief the 

14   next bill three hours from now in the middle of 

15   the night.  

16                But in my eight years in the 

17   Assembly I experienced that, and I don't expect 

18   it's going to change tonight here in the Senate.  

19   But this is one solution to the issue that we've 

20   got.

21                With that said, the next section is 

22   regarding the consolidation of Community Optional 

23   Preventive Services, or COPS, and the Supervision 

24   and Treatment Services for Juveniles Program.  

25   The COPS program serves youth who are not at 


                                                               2415

 1   imminent risk of foster care but who have been 

 2   identified as being at general risk of entering 

 3   the foster care system.  STSJP seeks to convert 

 4   at-risk, alleged or adjudicated juvenile 

 5   delinquents, persons in need of supervision or 

 6   juvenile offenders from detention, residential 

 7   placement, or recidivism.  

 8                The Executive proposed to merge the 

 9   COPS and STSJP program by decreasing funding to 

10   COPS by $12.1 million and increasing funding for 

11   STSJP by $16.4 million.  And the modified 

12   Executive proposal restores $12.1 million for 

13   COPS.  

14                My question is -- Madam President, 

15   through you -- it's my understanding that this 

16   full restoration of COPS funding will prevent a 

17   merger of the two programs.  So is that true, are 

18   we not merging these two programs?

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Correct.

20                SENATOR STEC:   Okay.  And, 

21   Madam President, my final question, through you, 

22   if the Senator would yield. 

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

24   Krueger, do you continue to yield?

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.


                                                               2416

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 2   Krueger yields.

 3                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

 4   Madam President.  

 5                Senator Krueger, what actions will 

 6   the Senate take to prevent a future merger 

 7   attempt by the Executive next year?  

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I think the 

 9   reality in our State Constitution is that we have 

10   annual budgets.  The Executive proposes language 

11   in his Executive Budget and if he chooses to 

12   recommend merging programs, we can do our best to 

13   make the argument about why we don't agree.  

14                We can do horse-trading over buying 

15   back the cost of whatever he's claiming he is 

16   saving by merging the programs.

17                We can draw on experts -- perhaps 

18   earlier than next budget session -- to tell us 

19   why it's a bad idea to merge and to get some 

20   public attention to the issue so that perhaps 

21   this Governor or the next Governor doesn't choose 

22   to attempt to merge the programs.

23                But I don't think the Legislature 

24   has the power to override a merger of programs or 

25   even to rewrite the law saying you can't merge 


                                                               2417

 1   the programs.  I'm just trying to think if I know 

 2   any precedents of a statute that says you cannot 

 3   merge two programs.  So I think we will just have 

 4   to continue to fight this out.

 5                But perhaps the next Governor will 

 6   share your view and our view that these two 

 7   programs should not be merged.

 8                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, Senator.

 9                Madam President, on the bill.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

11   Stec on the bill.

12                SENATOR STEC:   Madam President, 

13   thank you very much.  I appreciate 

14   Senator Krueger's time and candor in trying to 

15   answer my questions.  I do appreciate that.

16                This is my first opportunity to 

17   speak on our budget this year.  It's not my first 

18   budget.  It's my first one in this chamber, 

19   however.  And I've got to tell you the feedback 

20   that I've been getting from all over my district 

21   and all over my part of the state, and I suspect 

22   all over the state, is there is a great deal of 

23   frustration and anger over the idea of 

24   $2.1 billion going to this Excluded Workers Fund.  

25                The Excluded Workers Fund, if you 


                                                               2418

 1   don't know what it is and if you don't know how 

 2   it's defined, it's easy to gloss over it.  But 

 3   it's gotten a lot of media attention, and press, 

 4   and people that are aware of it are getting angry 

 5   about it.

 6                Two-point-one billion dollars to 

 7   essentially create a de facto unemployment system 

 8   for those that are ineligible for participation 

 9   in the unemployment system because they're either 

10   ex-convicts or they're here illegally, working 

11   illegally off the books -- i.e., illegal 

12   immigrants -- when we are -- we were within hours 

13   of delaying paychecks to 39,000 state employees 

14   because we couldn't agree on this $2.1 billion -- 

15   and oh, by the way, this is $2.1 billion of what 

16   is a $217 billion spending plan, which is 

17   $23 billion more than last year's spending 

18   plan -- you know, is really offensive to a lot of 

19   people.  

20                It really rubs a lot of people the 

21   wrong way.  It just doesn't seem -- there's no 

22   fairness to it.  People who are here legally, 

23   they work hard, they live by the rules, they pay 

24   their taxes, and they're the ones that are going 

25   to foot the bill for -- and this isn't a small 


                                                               2419

 1   bill, this is $2.1 billion.  This is one of the 

 2   most objectionable things in the budget.  

 3                I understand the funding for this 

 4   program is in this bill, and I understand that 

 5   the language we will see in a future bill -- and 

 6   I expect that we're going to take turns hammering 

 7   this in both of these bills, because it's that 

 8   offensive to a lot of people.  

 9                And for that reason, I will be 

10   voting against the budget.  Thank you.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

12   Boyle.

13                SENATOR BOYLE:   Thank you.  

14                Through you, Madam President, would 

15   the chairwoman yield for a couple of questions.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

17   Krueger, will you yield?  

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Happily.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

20   Senator yields.

21                SENATOR BOYLE:   Thank you.  Through 

22   you. 

23                Ms. Chairwoman, I'm going to ask 

24   some questions about the Excluded Workers Fund.  

25   It's my understanding that there is $2.1 billion 


                                                               2420

 1   in this Aid to Localities Budget for the fund, is 

 2   that correct, approximately?  

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 4                SENATOR BOYLE:   Okay.  Can you just 

 5   explain just briefly the -- that program and how 

 6   it's going to work, who's going to be eligible 

 7   for it, how many people?

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   One second.

 9                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Yes, 

11   Senator Gianaris.

12                SENATOR GIANARIS:   I'm trying to 

13   figure out a way to kind of make everybody happy.  

14                Senator Ramos, who is the author of 

15   the underlying bill on excluded workers, was 

16   our -- would have been our designated person to 

17   debate this bill.  We intended it to be when the 

18   bill was actually before us with the programmatic 

19   language.  

20                But if Senator Boyle would like to 

21   address it now, we could stand at ease while we 

22   get her here.

23                SENATOR BOYLE:   Through you, 

24   Madam President, I'll be happy to come back and 

25   ask about -- questions on the next bill, on 


                                                               2421

 1   the -- okay?

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

 3   Senator Boyle.

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Is that all right 

 5   with you?

 6                SENATOR BOYLE:   That's good.  Thank 

 7   you.  

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Do you want to 

 9   talk to me about anything else?  

10                SENATOR BOYLE:   That was all I was 

11   asking about.  Thank you, Chairwoman.  

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

13   Borrello.  Take a breather.  Senator Borrello.  

14                (Laughter.)

15                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you so 

16   much, Madam President.  I appreciate that.

17                I'd like to speak about the Public 

18   Protection portion, and I'm wondering if the 

19   sponsor will yield for some questions.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator, 

21   do you yield for questions?  

22                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do yield for a 

23   question.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Yes, the 

25   Senator yields.


                                                               2422

 1                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Well, good 

 2   evening again, Senator Krueger.

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Senator Borrello.

 4                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Appreciate the 

 5   time today.  

 6                Through you, Madam President, this 

 7   bill that we recently legalized recreational 

 8   marijuana, the language in the bill stated that 

 9   money would be appropriated for drug recognition 

10   experts to help, you know, enforce the impaired 

11   driving laws.  And is there any money in this 

12   budget bill for drug recognition experts?

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I believe there's 

14   $3 million.

15                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Three million.  

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

17                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Madam President, 

18   would the sponsor continue to yield.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

20   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The Senate 

23   yields.

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I just want to 

25   clarify.  I know we've been told there's 


                                                               2423

 1   $3 million for it, but we don't think it's in the 

 2   criminal justice -- it's in the Office of 

 3   Cannabis Management.

 4                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Okay.  So -- 

 5   thank you for that clarification.  So 

 6   $3 million -- so through you, Madam President, 

 7   are you aware of how many police officers we have 

 8   in New York State, total?

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I thought he said 

10   600,000.  I was like, what's going on?  

11   Sixty-nine thousand uniformed officers.

12                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Well, I'll go 

13   with your number.  My number is 55,000.  

14                But, Madam President, will the 

15   sponsor continue to yield.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

17   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

20   Senator yields.  

21                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you.  

22                So 69,000 officers, and we have a 

23   total of $3 million for drug recognition experts.  

24   Do you have any idea how far $3 million will go 

25   to initially train -- how many officers can we 


                                                               2424

 1   train for $3 million?  

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I don't know.  

 3                I do know that when we spoke to the 

 4   Superintendent of State Police and other 

 5   representatives of the Governor in planning for 

 6   this program and we got a commitment from the 

 7   Governor of adequate funds to start off even 

 8   before the program had really gotten up and 

 9   running, to make sure that we had the money to 

10   train officers, that they felt that they were 

11   going to be in a good place to do exactly that.

12                But I don't know how 3 million 

13   divides up.  Because I believe some of it is to 

14   actually hire trainers themselves, and others is 

15   to actually run people through a specific type of 

16   course, so that there's a couple of different 

17   models that the police -- sorry, that the state 

18   intends to use.

19                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Madam President, 

20   on the bill for a moment.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator on 

22   the bill.

23                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Yes, thank you.

24                So thank you very much for that.  

25   But I will say this:  $3 million is barely a drop 


                                                               2425

 1   in the bucket.

 2                Right now we'll use your number, 

 3   69,000 uniformed officers.  Every single one of 

 4   those 69,000 officers goes out every day with the 

 5   tools and the training to identify someone 

 6   operating a vehicle under the influence of 

 7   alcohol.  Right now, out of those 69,000 

 8   officers, there are a grand total of 343 of them 

 9   in New York State that are actually trained as 

10   drug recognition experts.  

11                So my question if we're going to 

12   ensure the safety of our roadways by providing 

13   tools to each and every officer, and the only 

14   tool that we really have is a drug recognition 

15   expert, then wouldn't it make sense to have all 

16   69,000 of those uniformed police officers trained 

17   as DREs?

18                So what's that number?  Well, that 

19   number is in excess of $700 million.  If we're 

20   going to ensure that we can identify and mitigate 

21   dangerous drivers operating under the influence 

22   of marijuana, then we're going to need 

23   700 million, not 3 million.

24                So this is barely a drop in the 

25   bucket and will certainly compromise the safety 


                                                               2426

 1   as we try to roll out the legalization of 

 2   recreational marijuana.

 3                So with that, Madam President, will 

 4   the sponsor continue to yield.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

 6   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, 

 8   Madam President.

 9                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you again.  

10   Through you, Madam President.  

11                Is there money in this budget for 

12   additional pretrial services for counties?

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, there is.  

14   We put in $40 million.

15                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Forty million, 

16   okay.  Thank you.  

17                Madam President, will the sponsor 

18   continue to yield.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

20   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

23   Senator yields.

24                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you.  

25   Through you, Madam President.  Is there 


                                                               2427

 1   additional money put in for anklet bracelet 

 2   monitoring programs for local municipalities?

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   They can use some 

 4   of the $40 million if they wish, because they 

 5   will come up with their own plan of how they plan 

 6   to use their money.

 7                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Madam President, 

 8   will the sponsor continue to yield.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

10   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

11                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

13   Senator yields.

14                SENATOR BORRELLO:   So we have quite 

15   a few additional pretrial services.  We have 

16   62 counties in New York State, several 

17   municipalities, obviously the City of New York.  

18   And $40 million, broken down amongst just the 

19   62 counties, let alone the boroughs and 

20   everything else, comes to less than a million 

21   dollars.

22                Do we think that that's enough money 

23   to successfully be able to carry out these new 

24   mandates?

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I don't know.  


                                                               2428

 1   Although since you were bringing up marijuana, 

 2   which is obviously just one issue in criminal 

 3   justice, the estimate when we have decriminalized 

 4   marijuana, which we just did, is that that 

 5   actually will save the police and DAs and courts 

 6   $500 million a year.  So I'm assuming they could 

 7   use some of that money for other purposes that 

 8   they have not been able to up until now.

 9                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Madam President, 

10   will the sponsor continue to yield.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

12   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do, but I'm 

14   just getting some more information.

15                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Take your time.

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So in addition to 

17   the money I said before, we also provide 

18   $44.8 million for probation-related services 

19   pre -- through the Department of Probation.

20                So it's more like double what I 

21   originally said.

22                SENATOR BORRELLO:   So I think I 

23   still have an opportunity to ask a question.

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm sorry, yes.  

25   And now I am saying yes, please allow him to ask 


                                                               2429

 1   me another question.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

 3   Senator Krueger.

 4                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you.  

 5                So you mentioned $500 million in 

 6   savings in pretrial services.  Is --  

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   In costs of not 

 8   busting people for low-level marijuana.

 9                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Okay.  Will the 

10   sponsor continue to yield.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

12   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

15   Senator yields.

16                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Senator, do you 

17   know how many of those pretrial services involve 

18   strictly -- as a percentage -- strictly a 

19   marijuana arrest versus arrests for multiple 

20   things?  You know, other illicit drugs, you know, 

21   weapons charges, et cetera.  Just strictly 

22   marijuana.  

23                Which is where the only savings 

24   would be, right, because we're not going to be 

25   able to save money for things that we haven't 


                                                               2430

 1   decriminalized, like selling meth and heroin.

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   No, we don't.  

 3   Although the data shows that 40 percent of our 

 4   arrests up until quite recently were for 

 5   low-level marijuana use.  

 6                So I don't know if it's fair to say 

 7   that means that 40 percent would have been under 

 8   your category as well.  But now these won't exist 

 9   as things that people get arrested for.

10                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Madam President, 

11   on the bill.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

13   Borrello on the bill.

14                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Again, thank 

15   you, Senator Krueger.  

16                But the reality is is that less than 

17   10 percent of these arrests are strictly on 

18   marijuana possession charges only.

19                So you have people out there that 

20   are dealing marijuana, heroin, meth.  They're -- 

21   you know, they have illegal weapons.  They've 

22   done other horrible things that they have been 

23   arrested for.

24                So the idea we're going to save 

25   $500 million because we're no longer going to be 


                                                               2431

 1   processing people that are strictly arrested for 

 2   marijuana possession is a myth.  It's a fallacy.  

 3   It's not correct.  So I don't see that $500 

 4   million savings actually being there.

 5                So -- and this goes back to a 

 6   greater point for me.  I've seen this pattern, as 

 7   I mentioned before, of us taking dangerous steps 

 8   into new areas where we have not really 

 9   responsibly put forth these new laws, where we 

10   are no longer -- we're not responsibly going to 

11   add recreational marijuana to New York State and 

12   responsibly ensure that we can actually safely do 

13   that.  We haven't done it here with $3 million 

14   for DREs.  We certainly haven't done it with a 

15   $500 million savings that's not going to actually 

16   happen, because we're still going to have to be 

17   arresting those people for all the other illegal 

18   things that they've done.  

19                And we've had this pattern over and 

20   over again in this budget.  So it's disturbing to 

21   me.  And as a veteran of local government, I can 

22   tell you that this will be borne by our local 

23   governments.  It will be our sheriff's deputies, 

24   it will be our mental health officials.  It will 

25   be all those folks that are on the front lines in 


                                                               2432

 1   local government, that have received little or no 

 2   funding, that are now going to have to deal with 

 3   the decisions that have been made here in this 

 4   chamber.

 5                So Madam President, I will say when 

 6   we get to this part, I will certainly be voting 

 7   no.

 8                And if you don't mind, 

 9   Madam President, I'd like to maybe move on to 

10   another portion of the same bill, for Aging.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Are you 

12   asking the Senator to yield?  

13                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Yes, would the 

14   sponsor yield for a question on Aging.  

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

16   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Yes, the 

19   Senator yields.

20                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you again, 

21   Senator Krueger.  Appreciate it.

22                You know, I will say that I will 

23   commend you that we have provided a significant 

24   amount of funding for certain Aging programs as 

25   part of this budget.  But do you anticipate that 


                                                               2433

 1   that money will be available again next year?

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Again, we do our 

 3   budget as an annual project, so I cannot possibly 

 4   commit to where we'll be on any line item next 

 5   year.  

 6                But I certainly would agree that the 

 7   growing population of New York that are aging 

 8   that need our assistance and are relatively 

 9   low-level investments in programs for the aging 

10   over the years would certainly justify seeing 

11   continued growth in programs for aging, not 

12   reductions.

13                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you.

14                Madam President, will the sponsor 

15   continue to yield.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

17   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

20   Senator yields.

21                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you.  

22                And I would agree that we want to 

23   ensure that we are providing our seniors with as 

24   many services as possible.

25                That being said, you know, the 


                                                               2434

 1   one-house bill proposed $27 million for the 

 2   Community Services for Elderly program, the CSE.  

 3   However, in this final draft, there's only 

 4   $8 million.  Can you tell us what happened?  We 

 5   went from $27 million to $8 million for this 

 6   critically important program.

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We lose a lot of 

 8   our fights between the one-house budget bill and 

 9   our final results tonight.  So unfortunately, as 

10   much as we are excited about many of the things 

11   we accomplished in this year's budget, we 

12   certainly could find, each and every one of us, 

13   items that we hoped to accomplish that we got 

14   less money than we wished or that we got no money 

15   for at all.

16                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you.  

17   Madam President, will the sponsor continue to 

18   yield.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

20   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

23   Senator yields.

24                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Through you, 

25   Madam President.  Thank you again.


                                                               2435

 1                You know, when we start talking 

 2   about these critically important programs, you 

 3   know, we have a very large and diverse state.  Do 

 4   you have an estimate of what percent of the 

 5   funding is provided to organizations that serve 

 6   the whole state in this Aging proposal?

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I don't.  So 

 8   you're talking about what agencies are statewide 

 9   as opposed to community-based or regionally 

10   based?

11                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Regionally, 

12   we'll say.

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I don't know that 

14   we track anything that way.

15                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Madam President, 

16   will the Senator continue to yield.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

18   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Absolutely.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

21   Senator yields.  

22                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Well, with that 

23   said, let me ask and I'll -- maybe you don't have 

24   an answer on this.  But do you have an estimate 

25   for what percentage of the funding is provided to 


                                                               2436

 1   organizations that specifically serve individuals 

 2   in the New York City area?

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Also I do not.

 4                SENATOR BORRELLO:   All right.  

 5   Well, Madam President, will the sponsor continue 

 6   to yield.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

 8   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

11   Senator yields.

12                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Well -- and I 

13   guess my last question is, you know, do we have 

14   an idea of how this is balanced.  Is it balanced 

15   fairly?  I mean, we have a very large aging 

16   population in upstate New York, typically much 

17   poorer than our senior citizens in, say, the 

18   New York City area.  

19                So do we have an idea of how 

20   balanced this funding will be?  

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   And when you say 

22   "this funding" you mean all funding for seniors?  

23                SENATOR BORRELLO:   I would just 

24   say -- yeah, specifically in the -- yeah, the 

25   Aging Budget, yes.


                                                               2437

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   If you were 

 2   asking back to that program that only got 

 3   $8 million, the job of that program is to serve 

 4   those with unmet needs.  So high need, high 

 5   poverty.  Of course $8 million on a statewide 

 6   basis is not very much money.  

 7                But by and large, I believe that the 

 8   Department for the Aging attempts to assure that 

 9   it is distributing funds based on the need that 

10   they see.  I would hope the demographics of where 

11   seniors are.  

12                But I have to say I would love if we 

13   had budget models that allowed us to do sort of 

14   pop-up maps of the demographics of where the need 

15   was and what state funds went into it.  I think 

16   that would be great.  But I don't think we have 

17   that capacity now, so I don't -- sincerely don't 

18   know if we could really ever come up with that 

19   answer.

20                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Madam President, 

21   on the bill.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

23   Borrello on the bill.

24                SENATOR BORRELLO:   Senator Krueger, 

25   thank you very much for that sincere engagement 


                                                               2438

 1   and those sincere answers.  I appreciate it very 

 2   much.

 3                You know, we hear a lot about 

 4   underserved communities and that typically, you 

 5   know, the people have a certain feeling of what 

 6   underserved means.  But I will tell you that when 

 7   it comes to our senior citizens especially, we 

 8   have large underserved communities in rural parts 

 9   of upstate New York, like the area I represent in 

10   the 57th Senate District.  

11                So when we start talking about the 

12   distribution of these funds and the fact that we 

13   obviously see that we have some perhaps misplaced 

14   priorities and we're spending billions on certain 

15   priorities and, you know, single-digit millions 

16   on something as important as our seniors, it's 

17   important to remember that we have seniors that 

18   live in healthcare deserts where they cannot get 

19   the critical services they need.  

20                Especially right now, with the 

21   pandemic still weighing on us and our Governor 

22   now opening up vaccines to 16-year-olds and up.  

23   Well, where I am, as much as I think people think 

24   that's a great idea, but where I am, I still have 

25   80-year-olds that cannot get an appointment to 


                                                               2439

 1   get a vaccine.  And now they're going to be 

 2   competing with 16-year-olds for those vaccine 

 3   appointments.  That's what I would consider to be 

 4   underserved.

 5                So I think we need to take a 

 6   critical look at what our priorities are.  And 

 7   this budget seems to have a lot of misplaced 

 8   priorities, particularly when it comes to our 

 9   vulnerable seniors, as we learned just now in the 

10   lack of funding that we've seen in so many ways.

11                So Madam President, again, on this 

12   part of the bill I'll be a no.  Thank you.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

14   Rath.

15                SENATOR RATH:   Thank you, 

16   Madam President.  Will the sponsor yield?  

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

18   Krueger, will you yield for some questions?  

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

21   Senator yields.

22                SENATOR RATH:   Thank you very much.  

23                My questions are with regard to the 

24   Aid and Incentives for Municipalities.  And in 

25   general, as we have come to find out during COVID 


                                                               2440

 1   and for the previous two years, the AIM money is 

 2   particularly important to our cities, our towns 

 3   and our villages.  And two years ago we came to 

 4   find out that there were towns and villages that 

 5   were deemed less reliant on AIM, so their money 

 6   was taken away.  And last year we had a confusing 

 7   formula with regards to county sales tax money 

 8   with regards to AIM sharing.  

 9                So my first question has to do with 

10   if you could please provide some details on how 

11   the AIM program operates.

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Six hundred 

13   forty-seven million to cities and other 

14   municipalities is the base of AIM.  Then there's 

15   some additional towns and villages who still get 

16   some state-funded AIM separately.  

17                And most towns and villages receive 

18   their AIM now through a county sales tax 

19   intercept wherein specifically the sales tax from 

20   internet sales -- no, it's not tied into internet 

21   sales.  Just sales tax intercept.

22                SENATOR RATH:   Thank you.  Will the 

23   sponsor continue to yield, Madam President.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

25   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  


                                                               2441

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Yes, the 

 3   Senator yields.  

 4                SENATOR RATH:   Thank you.  In 

 5   Part YY of the Senate one-house proposal there 

 6   was AIM program money to restore $59.2 million 

 7   that the Majority advocated for in its one-house 

 8   resolution.  Is that restored in this budget this 

 9   year?

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We were not 

11   successful.  That is not in the final budget.

12                SENATOR RATH:   It's not, thank you.

13                Madam President, will the sponsor 

14   continue to yield.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

16   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

19   Senator yields.

20                SENATOR RATH:   Thank you, Senator.

21                Do we know now specifically how much 

22   funding is restored in the AIM program for 

23   municipalities?

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We restored 

25   34.6 million of proposed cuts to the cities and 


                                                               2442

 1   13.5 million of proposed cuts to the towns and 

 2   villages.

 3                SENATOR RATH:   Thank you, Senator.

 4                Madam President, will the Senator 

 5   continue to yield.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

 7   Krueger, do you continue to yield?

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

10   Senator yields.

11                SENATOR RATH:   Between the greater 

12   than anticipated state revenue levels this year 

13   and $12.5 billion in unrestricted aid from 

14   Washington, I'm disappointed that the full 

15   $59 million was not restored.  And can you, I 

16   guess, describe the decision-making for the 

17   $34 million that was restored relative to the 59 

18   that was hoped for?

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So we tried for 

20   the full restoration; we were not successful.  

21   And I'm disappointed in that, because I think the 

22   AIM funding is very important.  

23                The good news -- and there's been a 

24   lot of discussion here today about is there 

25   federal money, is there state money, whose money 


                                                               2443

 1   is going to be used for what.  In the most recent 

 2   federal bill providing funding to New York State 

 3   from Washington, D.C., for stimulus, we're not 

 4   just getting money at the state level, we're not 

 5   just getting money on the big city level.  

 6   There's an actual report lining out how much 

 7   federal money will go to each of our towns and 

 8   villages.  

 9                And I will tell you in some cases it 

10   doesn't just make the AIM funding look like a 

11   drop in the basket -- there's a couple of towns 

12   I've heard from who say the amount of money 

13   they're going to get from the federal government 

14   matches their full annual budget.

15                So I think the fight to ensure fair 

16   and equal distribution of AIM funding is still a 

17   crucial assignment for us here at the state.  But 

18   ironically, this is the year we don't have to 

19   worry about it because there literally is so much 

20   federal funding coming in to towns and villages 

21   without strings attached that they will be able 

22   to use for exactly the kinds of things they've 

23   been hoping for more state AIM for.

24                So that's what I can offer right 

25   now, that I'm proud that the State of New York is 


                                                               2444

 1   part of this country with a federal government 

 2   that finally recognizes in bad economic times the 

 3   federal government, the only government that can 

 4   print money in the basement, has realized that 

 5   they need to send more of it to us here.  And 

 6   they're doing it, again, not just feds to the 

 7   state, not just feds to the counties and big 

 8   cities, but feds to every single town and village 

 9   as well.

10                SENATOR RATH:   Thank you, Senator.  

11   I share your concerns about the importance of AIM 

12   money for our municipalities this year and every 

13   year going forward.

14                Madam President, if I can shift and 

15   ask a few other questions, would the sponsor 

16   yield.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

18   Krueger, do you continue to yield?

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

21   Senator yields.

22                SENATOR RATH:   Thank you, Senator.

23                This has to do with the VLT aid.  

24   And it was something that we had talked about a 

25   couple of weeks ago as very, very important to 


                                                               2445

 1   many of these counties, cities and towns where 

 2   the VLT money is shared.  

 3                And has the appropriation of 

 4   $9.3 million for payment of aid to eligible 

 5   municipalities been fully restored in this 

 6   budget?  

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, it has.

 8                SENATOR RATH:   Thank you.

 9                Madam President, will the Senator 

10   continue to yield.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

12   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

15   Senator yields.

16                SENATOR RATH:   Lastly, I want to 

17   ask what is the reasoning behind providing an 

18   additional $980,000 in payment to the City of 

19   Yonkers?  

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So the Governor 

21   had cut that money, and we are simply restoring 

22   it.  

23                SENATOR RATH:   Okay.  

24                Madam President, I'm all set.  

25                Thank you very much, Senator.  I 


                                                               2446

 1   appreciate your time.

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 4   O'Mara.

 5                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

 6   Madam President.  If Senator Krueger would yield 

 7   for a couple of questions.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 9   Gianaris.

10                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

11   I'd just add Senator O'Mara intends to ask about 

12   health topics, and we've brought Senator Rivera 

13   down to answer those questions.

14                SENATOR O'MARA:   Yes, so I would 

15   ask Senator Rivera to yield.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

17   Rivera, do you yield? 

18                SENATOR RIVERA:   I'm ba-ack.  

19                Indeed I will, Madam President.  

20                SENATOR O'MARA:   I dragged you back 

21   in, Gustavo.

22                I just had a couple of questions on 

23   the delay of the transition of the Medicaid 

24   pharmacy benefit from managed-care to 

25   fee-for-service reimbursements.  And that was 


                                                               2447

 1   budgeted in last year's budget to be effective in 

 2   the coming year with a savings of $100 million.  

 3                But yet we've put that off now for 

 4   two years under this bill?

 5                SENATOR RIVERA:   Madam President, 

 6   through you.  Indeed, we have a delay of two 

 7   years.  

 8                And I'm glad that you brought this 

 9   up -- through you, Madam President -- 

10   Senator O'Mara, since it's important to make sure 

11   that there's a -- that it's understood exactly 

12   what is going on here.

13                This transition, which the Executive 

14   suggested to transition this particular benefit 

15   over from managed-care to fee-for-service, with a 

16   savings attached to it -- and I'm not too sure 

17   about the math, but let's just say that it is 

18   happening.  There's one problem with it, and it's 

19   a very, very important one.

20                There's particular providers across 

21   the state that avail themselves of a federal 

22   program referred to as 340B.  What that does, 

23   Madam President, is that it allows for them to 

24   purchase drugs at a discount.  And we're talking 

25   about safety net providers, we're talking about 


                                                               2448

 1   FQHCs, or Federally Qualified Health Centers 

 2   across the state, and we're talking about 

 3   Ryan White providers.  These are folks who 

 4   serve -- providers who serve HIV-positive 

 5   patients.

 6                Now, the thing, Madam President, is 

 7   that what they do with these savings is that they 

 8   create wraparound services for these populations.  

 9   And they've been incredibly creative with them.  

10   The federal program that is in reference, the 

11   340B program, allows for these facilities -- for 

12   these entities to use this money very creatively.  

13   And what they've done is they've figured out how 

14   to use this money, Madam President, to provide 

15   incredible wraparound services to the most 

16   vulnerable populations across the state that -- 

17   who they serve.

18                The problem, Madam President, is 

19   that even though this transition was going to 

20   happen, and certainly there would be some bonuses 

21   not only in savings, but also -- and I'll get to 

22   the pharmacies in a second.  The problem was, 

23   Madam President, that making this transition 

24   happen immediately would make it so that these 

25   providers would not be able to avail themselves 


                                                               2449

 1   of the program anymore.  

 2                So overnight, Madam President, they 

 3   would be devoid of somewhere in the neighborhood 

 4   of $200 million that they use, as I said earlier, 

 5   to provide wraparound services for the most 

 6   vulnerable populations.  This was not something 

 7   that we could go forward and allow to happen.  So 

 8   we have asked for a delay of two years.  

 9                But, Madam President, there is 

10   another issue which I'm sure that Senator O'Mara 

11   is going to be referring to, and that is the very 

12   real concern that pharmacists, particularly local 

13   pharmacies, have across the state.

14                Transitioning to a fee-for-service 

15   would actually give them a bonus onto what they 

16   get paid for each prescription that they fill, 

17   which ultimately would have a direct impact that 

18   they have been feeling in a negative way for the 

19   last couple of years from the boogeyman called 

20   the pharmacy benefit managers.  I will not bore 

21   you with it right now, since we've voted on bills 

22   on this floor to regulate them in the State of 

23   New York, in regulations that go farther than any 

24   other state in the country.

25                But the reality is that there is a 


                                                               2450

 1   real impact to not having the transition happen 

 2   right now for these pharmacies, Madam President.  

 3   So we are committed -- and I stated this earlier, 

 4   and I say it again, we are committed in the 

 5   Majority to work along with pharmacies all across 

 6   the state to come up with a way so that both 

 7   these things can exist at the same time.  And it 

 8   is complicated.  And it might not be possible to 

 9   achieve, but we could not let the transition 

10   happen at a time that it would have an immediate 

11   impact on safety net hospitals, Federally 

12   Qualified Health Centers, and Ryan White 

13   providers across the state.  We could not allow 

14   for it to happen, so that is why we asked for 

15   this transition.  

16                And lastly, Madam President, we also 

17   added language which says that the state must 

18   work with the Legislature to within a year be 

19   able to put together all of our heads, the 

20   smartest people -- certainly smarter than me.  

21   Probably some of the folks that are sitting down 

22   over here -- to work this through.  We couldn't 

23   do it during the process of the budget.  It is 

24   unfortunate that we couldn't come to an agreement 

25   that was beneficial to both.  We believe that it 


                                                               2451

 1   was necessary to do it this way.  Even though it 

 2   is a two year delay, Madam President, we believe 

 3   we can get it done before then, and we look 

 4   forward to working along with pharmacies to 

 5   figure this out.

 6                SENATOR O'MARA:   Madam President, 

 7   will Senator Rivera continue to yield.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 9   Rivera, do you continue to yield?

10                SENATOR RIVERA:   Absolutely, Madam 

11   President.  

12                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Yes, the 

13   Senator yields.

14                SENATOR O'MARA:   Now, we are 

15   getting a lot of pushback from independent 

16   pharmacies, as you acknowledged.  They were 

17   looking forward to the fee-for-service switch for 

18   them, which would benefit them.

19                Now, these independent pharmacies 

20   are -- typically are more of our 

21   neighborhood-type pharmacies.  They're not the 

22   chains that are gobbling up the market share by 

23   the day.  But they provide direct care and a lot 

24   of services to their neighborhood residents that 

25   they supply to.


                                                               2452

 1                So what -- what is the impact going 

 2   to be to these independent pharmacies as a result 

 3   of this delay on what they were anticipating?

 4                SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

 5   Madam President.  As I stated earlier, it is a 

 6   reality, it is a legitimate concern that not 

 7   transitioning to a fee-for-service model at this 

 8   point for this particular benefit impacts these 

 9   pharmacies in that the charge, what they get paid 

10   for each prescription that they actually put out 

11   to patients, they will get paid less.  And we 

12   recognize that, Madam President.  

13                And we know that it is important to 

14   make sure that we address it with alacrity.  

15   That's right, I said alacrity.  With speed.  We 

16   want to make sure that we do this even hopefully 

17   before the end of this year.  

18                So I don't know the impact -- 

19   through you, Madam President, I do not know the 

20   impact in particular to each one of these 

21   pharmacies or across the state, but I recognize 

22   that it is serious.  And I recognize that we have 

23   a responsibility to work along with them to make 

24   sure that we can fix this as soon as possible.

25                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the Senator 


                                                               2453

 1   will continue to yield.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

 3   Rivera, do you continue to yield?  

 4                SENATOR RIVERA:   Yes, 

 5   Madam President.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 7   Senator yields.

 8                SENATOR O'MARA:   Is there anything 

 9   in this budget to provide immediate relief to 

10   these independent pharmacies that this delay is 

11   causing?  

12                SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

13   Madam President, there is nothing in the bill 

14   that provides an immediate relief.  

15                But I will reiterate that there is 

16   language which directs the department to work 

17   along with the Legislature to make sure that we 

18   can actually, again, put our heads together and 

19   come up with a solution within a year.  

20                The delay is two years, but the 

21   report that is due by the Department of Health 

22   related to this matter is due in a year.  But I 

23   believe that we don't even need -- we might not 

24   even need that long.  And again, it is a 

25   complicated process and one that we need to 


                                                               2454

 1   figure out.

 2                At the end of the day, the impact 

 3   that was going to be felt immediately by 

 4   Federally Qualified Health Centers, by safety net 

 5   hospitals and by Ryan White providers all across 

 6   the state, we could not allow for it to go 

 7   forward at this moment.  So even though it is 

 8   difficult, and I certainly feel -- and I have 

 9   been hearing from some of my local pharmacies, 

10   and I recognize their concerns, I acknowledge 

11   their concerns, and we will -- as a matter of 

12   fact, we have a meeting with them on Thursday, 

13   Madam President, to start addressing this 

14   immediately.

15                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you.

16                That's all I had on that topic, 

17   Senator Rivera.  Appreciate you coming back in.

18                SENATOR RIVERA:   Thank you.

19                SENATOR O'MARA:   If Senator Krueger 

20   would yield for just a couple of closing 

21   questions.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

23   Krueger, do you yield?  

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 


                                                               2455

 1   Senator yields.

 2                SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator Krueger, 

 3   what is the source of funds for the $2.1 billion 

 4   so-called Excluded Worker Fund?

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I believe it will 

 6   just come from the General Fund.  So whatever 

 7   funds go into the General Fund get used for 

 8   things that are paid for through the 

 9   General Fund.  So that would be taxes, avails, 

10   other sources of revenue.  Yeah.

11                SENATOR O'MARA:   If Senator Krueger 

12   will continue to yield.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

14   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

17   Senator yields.

18                SENATOR O'MARA:   Do any of the 

19   federal COVID relief bills -- COVID relief funds 

20   go into our General Fund?

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I don't believe 

22   we can use or are going to use federal funds for 

23   this.  No, we can't.

24                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the Senator 

25   will continue to yield.


                                                               2456

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

 2   Krueger, do you continue to yield?  

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 5   Senator yields.

 6                SENATOR O'MARA:   And why is it you 

 7   can't use federal funds for this excluded worker 

 8   program?

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   They're excluded 

10   from federal benefits, which is why we need to 

11   use state funds.

12                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

13   Senator.

14                On the bill.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

16   O'Mara on the bill.

17                SENATOR O'MARA:   This excluded 

18   worker program, which is basically unemployment 

19   benefits for immigrants who are here in violation 

20   of our immigration laws -- who are not lawfully 

21   documented immigrants in our state, who are not 

22   lawfully entitled to hold a job, that we are 

23   spending -- that we can't use federal funds on 

24   this because clearly we couldn't use federal 

25   funds to give money to illegal immigrants in our 


                                                               2457

 1   state.

 2                We're spending $2.1 billion of 

 3   New York State taxpayer dollars to pay up to 

 4   $28,000 to an illegal immigrant who's been 

 5   working here illegally, getting paid illegally 

 6   under the table.  And all these other programs 

 7   that we're talking about -- we don't have any 

 8   money to help the independent pharmacies that 

 9   were expecting some relief from the budget last 

10   year.  And we just heard we can't have any money 

11   for them, to help the independent pharmacies 

12   survive.

13                You've heard over and over from 

14   other speakers and questioners this evening on 

15   our inability or unwillingness to restore certain 

16   relief to local governments, to colleges, that 

17   the priority of this legislative body, and this 

18   issue was driven by the Senate Majority in this 

19   budget process -- $2.1 billion going to illegal 

20   immigrants who we won't even be able to tell 

21   whether they were actually unemployed because of 

22   COVID, because there are no unemployment records 

23   to verify that they lost a job that they weren't 

24   legally entitled to have and get paid for in the 

25   first place.


                                                               2458

 1                I think this is really an illegal 

 2   use of taxpayer funds.  I expect it will be 

 3   challenged in court.  Certainly hope that it is.  

 4   And we have billions and billions of dollars in 

 5   taxes being raised in this budget, raising taxes 

 6   to shift $2.1 billion to illegal immigrants.

 7                Thank you.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Are there 

 9   any other Senators wishing to be heard?

10                Seeing and hearing none, debate is 

11   closed.  The Secretary will ring the bell.

12                Read the last section.

13                THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

14   act shall take effect immediately.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Call the 

16   roll.

17                (The Secretary called the roll.)

18                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

19   Krueger to explain her vote.

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you, 

21   Madam President.

22                So I know that there will be 

23   probably a more in-depth discussion of excluded 

24   workers on a later bill, but I just need to get a 

25   few facts cleared up.  


                                                               2459

 1                One, the benefit is not going to be 

 2   $28,000.  It is a maximum of $15,600, where very 

 3   few people will actually be eligible for that.  

 4   Probably the majority will be eligible for more 

 5   like $3500.  They will have to prove a paper 

 6   trail of having been working and then becoming 

 7   unemployed because of COVID during this specific 

 8   time period that the federal rules for expanded 

 9   unemployment apply.

10                Yes, they are undocumented, but the 

11   State of New York can't do anything about that.  

12   We have a federal government that has failed to 

13   correctly address immigration policy for decades 

14   and decades.  The federal government knows people 

15   live here in New York State without 

16   documentation.  We can't help get them 

17   documentation.  We know they live here.  We know 

18   they work here.  They work in our homes, they 

19   work taking care of our lawns, they work on our 

20   farms, they work in our industries.  

21                And usually they are paying taxes 

22   when they have those jobs.  The irony is they 

23   have to pay the tax, but they're not eligible for 

24   any benefits when they hit a crisis just like you 

25   or I or neighbors may have hit crises.  


                                                               2460

 1                So the concept that the State of 

 2   New York would look the other way when we have 

 3   probably close to a million people here in this 

 4   state who don't have documented status but are 

 5   our neighbors -- some are even our friends, 

 6   they're our employees.  And there's not a lot 

 7   they can do about changing their status.  We can 

 8   offer them a small hand up when they were living 

 9   in emergency crises, not being able to feed 

10   themselves and their children, not being able to 

11   pay their rent.  

12                And I just want to highlight yes, it 

13   will be some tax money going towards this goal.  

14   The money will be immediately spent in our 

15   neighborhood economies.  These are not folks who 

16   are investing in offshore stock transfer plans.  

17   These are people who desperately need the money, 

18   will go and use it at their local supermarkets, 

19   will pay their landlords, will pay their utility 

20   fees, will pay their gas and their car to maybe 

21   be able to get back to that job when it's offered 

22   again.  

23                So there's a multiplier effect in 

24   the poorest communities by moving this money this 

25   way, because it will all get spent the minute it 


                                                               2461

 1   goes out the door.  It will address people not 

 2   getting sicker, which we don't want them to do.  

 3   It will address their ability to get back on 

 4   their feet and able to take care of themselves 

 5   again.  

 6                And if this house wants to have a 

 7   conversation about what to do about undocumented 

 8   people, we should be having that conversation 

 9   with Washington, D.C.  Because you know what?  If 

10   we just went ahead and fixed our immigration 

11   laws, they could have status so they were 

12   eligible for federal benefits when they needed 

13   it.

14                Because I don't know about you, but 

15   there's something that's so un-American to me 

16   about having people work and pay taxes and then 

17   not allow them the most basic benefits to take 

18   care of themselves when they get in crisis.

19                Sometimes we didn't have immigration 

20   laws at different times in this country.  That's 

21   how we mostly got here.  My grandparents came 

22   from Europe during pogroms.  They hoped they 

23   would be allowed to stay when they got here.  

24   They didn't have paperwork.  They were allowed to 

25   stay, and I'm a New York State Senator.


                                                               2462

 1                Thank you very much.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator  

 3   Krueger to be recorded in the affirmative.

 4                Senator Harckham to explain his 

 5   vote.

 6                SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Thank you, 

 7   Madam President.  

 8                I will be voting in the affirmative 

 9   on this bill and all of the budget bills that 

10   we're discussing here today, and a few general 

11   comments.  

12                First I'd like to thank the Majority 

13   Leader for her steadfast leadership as we 

14   navigated through this budget process, as well as 

15   all of the Senators, our colleagues in the 

16   Majority, and the staff who worked so many 

17   tireless hours to put this budget together.

18                This is a recovery budget, a budget 

19   for the recovery of New York State and for the 

20   Hudson Valley.  This budget -- and in large part 

21   thanks to you, Madam President -- makes record 

22   investments in education, in Foundation Aid to 

23   finally fund our legal obligation to the students 

24   of New York State.  This is a win for students, 

25   this is a win for taxpayers.  


                                                               2463

 1                Pre-K outside of New York City, long 

 2   talked about, this budget delivers.  In my 

 3   district alone, 14 districts, nearly 900 slots.  

 4                Increase in TAP assistance, increase 

 5   to SUNY and CUNY, making college more affordable 

 6   to our middle-class families.  

 7                Record investments in small 

 8   businesses -- 800 million in grants.  I was proud 

 9   to propose a $100 million grant program bill, and 

10   the need was so great that colleagues came 

11   together and the Majority Leader was able to 

12   negotiate another half-billion dollars with the 

13   Governor.  That's a major win for our small 

14   businesses:  A total of $4 billion we're 

15   investing into small business recovery if you 

16   include the federal dollars.  This is a win and 

17   an investment for small business.

18                We continue the middle-class tax 

19   cuts and, for the first time, a circuit breaker 

20   so that our seniors can stay in their homes who 

21   are on fixed incomes.  

22                We finally fully funded the 

23   Cessation Fund so that the communities around 

24   Indian Point will not have to worry about loss of 

25   tax revenue as we shut the plants down in April.


                                                               2464

 1                And finally, we've extended 

 2   prevailing wage to our renewable energy projects 

 3   so that everybody shares in the prosperity of the 

 4   green economy and the green recovery.

 5                So these investments of today will 

 6   result in the shared prosperity of tomorrow.  

 7   Madam President, I vote aye.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 9   Harckham to be recorded in the affirmative.

10                Senator Ryan to explain his vote.

11                SENATOR RYAN:   Thank you very much, 

12   Madam President.  

13                Thank the Majority Leader for so 

14   much in this bill to help restart the New York 

15   State economy post-pandemic, just in a sundry of 

16   items from education funding on.  

17                But a few things I want to highlight 

18   is we're increasing library funding.  And we're a 

19   big fan of that.  We all saw the work that 

20   libraries did during the pandemic, and we're 

21   happy to restore the money that was cut to them.

22                Another item we're putting into the 

23   budget this year is aid to agencies that resettle 

24   refugees into our communities.  The number-one 

25   growth factor of upstate cities is refugees.  


                                                               2465

 1   More than other people moving from the different 

 2   parts of America to our cities, or immigrants 

 3   coming in, it's refugee resettlement.  

 4                And that program has suffered 

 5   greatly under the previous president.  They 

 6   narrowed down by 75 percent the amount of 

 7   refugees coming into our communities.  

 8                We're very happy with our new 

 9   president that we're going to be rejoining the 

10   world's nations, and more refugees will be coming 

11   into upstate New York.  But the agencies need 

12   help.  And with this budget we are putting 

13   $3 million towards the refugee resettlement 

14   agencies to help them get a footing in America.  

15   And that's a positive thing.

16                The other thing we did is we 

17   recognized all the different people and cities 

18   who are suffering because of the pandemic, 

19   whether it's loss of home ownership, people 

20   fighting unemployment claims, people being 

21   evicted from their houses.  And we put 

22   $3.5 million into legal services agencies 

23   operating in Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse and 

24   Albany, to help just a little bit with the 

25   increase of civil legal services that is needed 


                                                               2466

 1   in our communities.

 2                So, very happy to support this 

 3   budget bill and so many of the wonderful things 

 4   in there.  So it's my pleasure to vote in the 

 5   affirmative on this action.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 7   Ryan to be recorded in the affirmative.

 8                Senator Liu to explain his vote.

 9                SENATOR LIU:   Thank you very much, 

10   Madam President.  

11                Our State Budget has Aid to 

12   Localities that is meant to address needs of 

13   local governments and local communities, but with 

14   a statewide focus it represents our priorities, 

15   it represents our values as a state.

16                And this year's Aid to Localities 

17   has a number of funding items that I do believe 

18   certainly represent our values and are badly 

19   needed by the communities that make up our great 

20   state.

21                I want to point out one specific 

22   item that I think is a real marker for the State 

23   of New York.  Now, this past year we all know how 

24   deadly and dreadful the coronavirus pandemic has 

25   been.  For the Asian-American community, it's 


                                                               2467

 1   been doubly terrible in the bias and bigotry that 

 2   we see now almost on a daily basis -- headlines 

 3   of Asian-Americans across the country, but 

 4   especially right here in New York, where elderly 

 5   men and women are being shoved violently from 

 6   behind, where people commuting to work are being 

 7   slashed in their faces.  The horrific shooting 

 8   spree -- not here in New York, in Atlanta.  But 

 9   it could have been here in New York because there 

10   has not been an uptick in anti-Asian racism, 

11   violence and bias, there has been an onslaught 

12   during this entire year of coronavirus.

13                And in order to address those -- 

14   this problem, this plague, we need to do 

15   something -- not necessarily solutions that state 

16   government can come up with on its own, but a 

17   coalition of organizations, organizations in the 

18   Asian-American community who have been getting 

19   together, brainstorming, talking about how we can 

20   address the racist pandemic that the 

21   Asian-American community has been faced with.  

22                And they came to us, our members 

23   here in the State Senate, our colleagues in the 

24   State Assembly, and also to the Executive, and we 

25   have put together this $10 million fund that is 


                                                               2468

 1   meant for these organizations to begin addressing 

 2   the root causes of this very virulent anti-Asian 

 3   hate that we have all been faced with.

 4                So I want to thank my colleagues, I 

 5   want to thank our leader for putting this forth 

 6   in the State Senate.  I want to thank our 

 7   colleagues in the Assembly and the Executive as 

 8   well.  Because once this budget passes, we will 

 9   do the hard work of figuring out exactly how this 

10   money is going to be allocated.

11                Madam President, this is my 

12   opportunity just to talk about the Aid to 

13   Localities.  I have lots more to say on 

14   education, on revenue.  I'll see you later.  

15   Thank you so much.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

17   Liu to be recorded in the affirmative.

18                Senator Hinchey to explain her vote.

19                SENATOR HINCHEY:   Thank you, 

20   Madam President.

21                This bill lays out a clear path for 

22   upstate economic development and recovery.  

23   Agriculture is a $3.6 billion industry, and it's 

24   a cornerstone of our state's economy.  We've 

25   increased funding for research initiatives, 


                                                               2469

 1   FarmNet, the Cornell Diagnostic Lab, and we've 

 2   added new investments that will bolster the state 

 3   of agriculture across New York for years to come.

 4                This is the best ag budget in recent 

 5   history.  And as the chair of Agriculture, I'm 

 6   incredibly excited about that.

 7                This bill also includes significant 

 8   and needed funding and investment for small 

 9   businesses, with a billion dollars in relief.  

10   Our small businesses have been on the front lines 

11   during COVID, often feeding people, opening their 

12   doors, helping community members, being a pillar 

13   of what our small towns and communities need 

14   during this pandemic.  And they need help, and we 

15   are providing that now.

16                This bill also has a lot of local 

17   wins, spanning agritourism, green job 

18   development, the expansion of rural healthcare 

19   and veterans services and, for the first time 

20   ever, an independent stewardship line for the 

21   Catskills Park.  

22                Upstate New York will benefit 

23   greatly from the investments in this budget bill, 

24   and for that I vote aye.  Thank you.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 


                                                               2470

 1   Hinchey to be recorded in the affirmative.

 2                Senator Brouk to explain her vote.

 3                SENATOR BROUK:   Thank you, 

 4   Madam President.  

 5                I want to take quick moment to shine 

 6   a light on something that has happened for the 

 7   first time in our nation's history, which is a 

 8   state choosing to invest in local police 

 9   accountability -- and in this case, for the City 

10   of Rochester.  

11                This moment has been more than 

12   50 years in the making, when community members 

13   and leaders and organizers have been working to 

14   help make a safer, more supportive community for 

15   the City of Rochester.  And in 2019, 75 percent 

16   of voters in the City of Rochester voted for a 

17   police accountability board, because they knew 

18   part of the solution to make safer communities 

19   was to allow community voices to be a part of 

20   that process.  

21                And that is why I am so grateful, in 

22   this budget, for the leadership of Leader Andrea 

23   Stewart-Cousins for seeing the incredible need of 

24   our hometown City of Rochester in the 

25   55th District and the need for an investment like 


                                                               2471

 1   this.  

 2                For too long our city has been in 

 3   the headlines with tragedy over tragedy, whether 

 4   it's Daniel Prude losing his life in the throes 

 5   of a mental health crisis, whether it's a young 

 6   9-year-old getting pepper-sprayed in the face, 

 7   whether it's a woman with her 3-year-old daughter 

 8   by her side being pepper-sprayed for an 

 9   accusation of stealing, which she was found to be 

10   not guilty of.

11                This kind of funding is absolutely 

12   necessary, needed, and I am so grateful for the 

13   courage of this body to trust that the community 

14   really does deserve this kind of voice in their 

15   own policing.  I believe it will help us save 

16   lives in the City of Rochester.  

17                For that reason and so many other 

18   reasons, I'm proud to vote aye on this.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

20   Brouk to be recorded in the affirmative.

21                Senator Kavanagh to explain his 

22   vote.

23                SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Thank you, 

24   Madam President.  

25                This is the second of several 


                                                               2472

 1   appearances this evening on the myriad places 

 2   where we find funding for housing and 

 3   homelessness.  

 4                In the Aid to Localities bill there 

 5   is the $2.45 billion that we're going to spend on 

 6   COVID-19 emergency rental assistance.  I think we 

 7   will be talking about that, the language that is 

 8   in a subsequent bill.

 9                But I also did want to note that not 

10   only the money but the language for a brand-new 

11   program that is intended to provide permanent 

12   housing for homeless New Yorkers is included in 

13   the Aid to Localities bill.  We're allocating 

14   $100 million for a new program through the Office 

15   of Temporary and Disability Assistance that 

16   provide resources for our local social service 

17   districts to provide permanent housing to 

18   homeless families, homeless individuals, 

19   including those without children, and also folks 

20   who would otherwise be facing eviction or 

21   homelessness.

22                It is not what many of us had 

23   sought, in that there was a great interest in a 

24   bill called the Housing Access Voucher Program, 

25   which many advocates had worked on and was 


                                                               2473

 1   included in this house's one-house resolution.  

 2   But it is a start, and it's very important.  

 3                You know, we have 90,000 homeless 

 4   people at any given moment in our state.  It's 

 5   far too many.  And although there's lots of 

 6   reasons for that and lots of services that are 

 7   necessary, one of the next most basic needs is 

 8   resources for permanent housing.  So this program 

 9   will begin that process.

10                Just to note also -- again, we're 

11   going to be talking about renters quite a bit 

12   later, but there is $600 million in this bill for 

13   homeowners, for relief for homeowners.  That 

14   includes, for the first time in a long time, a 

15   multiyear commitment to the Homeowner Protection 

16   Program, which has been quite a fight each budget 

17   cycle to get the $20 million restored.  We're now 

18   putting in $20 million for this year and also 

19   putting in language that commits to do that for 

20   each of the next two years in addition to this 

21   year.  So three years of funding, and we're 

22   moving that back to HCR, the state housing 

23   agency, where it began and where it probably best 

24   belongs.

25                But in addition to that, there's 


                                                               2474

 1   $540 million for assistance for homeowners to 

 2   deal with the costs of the COVID-19 crisis.

 3                And just also this bill also 

 4   includes the Small Cities Community Development 

 5   Block Grant for $40 million and $22 million for 

 6   the Rural Rental Assistance Program.  So again, 

 7   some very generous allocations for the enormous 

 8   housing crisis, both the aspects that have come 

 9   out of the COVID-19 crisis and also our long-term 

10   need to provide greater resources for housing and 

11   for people who are homeless.

12                So with that, Madam President, I 

13   vote aye.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

15   Kavanagh to be recorded in the affirmative.

16                Announce the results.

17                THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

18   Calendar 650, those Senators voting in the 

19   negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Boyle, 

20   Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Jordan, Lanza, 

21   Mannion, Martucci, Mattera, Oberacker, O'Mara, 

22   Ortt, Palumbo, Rath, Ritchie, Serino, Stec, 

23   Tedisco and Weik.

24                Ayes, 42.  Nays, 21.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The bill 


                                                               2475

 1   is passed.

 2                Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

 3   reading of the controversial calendar.

 4                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

 5   we're going to call a meeting of the Finance 

 6   Committee in Room 332 at 11:25 p.m. 

 7                And can you please recognize 

 8   Senator Lanza for an announcement.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   There will 

10   be a meeting of the Finance Committee at 11:25 in 

11   Room 332 of the Capitol.

12                Senator Lanza.

13                SENATOR LANZA:   Thank you, 

14   Senator Gianaris.  Thank you, Madam President.

15                There will be an immediate meeting 

16   of the Republican Conference in Room 315 of the 

17   Capitol.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   There will 

19   be an immediate meeting of the Republican 

20   Conference in Room 315 of the Capitol.

21                SENATOR GIANARIS:   The Senate will 

22   stand at ease.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The Senate 

24   will stand at ease.

25                (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease 


                                                               2476

 1   at 9:58 p.m.)

 2                (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at 

 3   11:58 p.m.)

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

 5   Senate will return to order.  

 6                Senator Gianaris.

 7                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Thank you, 

 8   Madam President.  

 9                Pursuant to Rule 5, Section 2, I 

10   move that we remain in session past midnight.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Without 

12   objection, so ordered.

13                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Now I believe 

14   there's a report of the Finance Committee at the 

15   desk.  Can we take that up, please. 

16                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

17   Secretary will read.

18                THE SECRETARY:   Senator Krueger, 

19   from the Committee on Finance, reports the 

20   following bills:

21                Senate Print 2500D, Senate Budget 

22   Bill, an act making appropriations for the 

23   support of government:  STATE OPERATIONS BUDGET;  

24                Senate Print 2506C, Senate Budget 

25   Bill, an act to amend the Education Law; 


                                                               2477

 1                Senate Print 2509C, Senate Budget 

 2   Bill, an act to amend the Tax Law.

 3                All bills reported direct to third 

 4   reading.

 5                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to accept 

 6   the report of the Finance Committee.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   All 

 8   those in favor of accepting the report of the 

 9   Finance Committee signify by saying aye.

10                (Response of "Aye.")

11                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Opposed, 

12   nay.

13                (No response.)

14                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

15   Finance Committee report is accepted.

16                Senator Gianaris.

17                SENATOR GIANARIS:   At this time can 

18   we please go back and take up Calendar 645, which 

19   was previously laid aside.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

21   Secretary will read.

22                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

23   645, Senate Print 2501B, Senate Budget Bill, an 

24   act making appropriations for the support of 

25   government:  LEGISLATURE AND JUDICIARY BUDGET.


                                                               2478

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

 2   last section.

 3                THE SECRETARY:   Section 5.  This 

 4   act shall take effect immediately.  

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

 6   roll.

 7                (The Secretary called the roll.)

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

 9   the results.  

10                THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

11   Calendar 645, those Senators voting in the 

12   negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Boyle, 

13   Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Jordan, Lanza, 

14   Martucci, Mattera, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, 

15   Palumbo, Rath, Ritchie, Serino, Stec, Tedisco and 

16   Weik.

17                Ayes, 43.  Nays, 20.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

19   is passed.  

20                Senator Gianaris.  

21                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

22   at this time can we take up the supplemental 

23   calendar, please.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

25   Secretary will read.


                                                               2479

 1                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 2   652, Senate Print 2500D, Senate Budget Bill, an 

 3   act making appropriations for the support of 

 4   government:  STATE OPERATIONS BUDGET.

 5                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Lay it aside 

 6   temporarily.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

 8   will be laid aside temporarily.

 9                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

10   653, Senate Print 2506C, Senate Budget Bill, an 

11   act to amend the Education Law.

12                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Is there a 

13   message of necessity at the desk?  

14                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   There is 

15   a message of necessity at the desk.

16                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to accept 

17   the message of necessity.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   All in 

19   favor of accepting the message of necessity 

20   signify by saying aye.

21                (Response of "Aye.")

22                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Opposed?  

23                (Response of "Nay.")

24                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

25   message is accepted, and the bill is before the 


                                                               2480

 1   house.

 2                SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

 3                (Laughter.)

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Lay it 

 5   aside.

 6                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 7   654, Senate Print 2509C, Senate Budget Bill, an 

 8   act to amend the Tax Law.

 9                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Is there a 

10   message of necessity at the desk?  

11                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   There is 

12   a message of necessity at the desk.

13                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to accept 

14   the message of necessity.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   All in 

16   favor of accepting the message of necessity 

17   signify by saying aye.

18                (Response of "Aye.")

19                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Opposed?  

20                (Response of "Nay.")

21                SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

23   message is accepted and the bill is before the 

24   house.

25                SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.


                                                               2481

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Lay it 

 2   aside.

 3                Senator Gianaris, this completes the 

 4   reading of today's supplemental calendar.

 5                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Can we now take 

 6   up the controversial calendar, please.  

 7                We will begin the controversial 

 8   calendar with Calendar 654, please.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

10   Secretary will read.

11                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

12   654, Senate Print 2509C, Senate Budget Bill, an 

13   act to amend the Tax Law.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

15   Boyle.

16                SENATOR BOYLE:   Yes, 

17   Madam President, would the sponsor yield for a 

18   couple of questions.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Will the 

20   sponsor yield?

21                SENATOR RAMOS:   Good morning, 

22   Madam President.  I do.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Good 

24   morning.

25                The sponsor yields.  


                                                               2482

 1                SENATOR GIANARIS:   I'm sorry, 

 2   Madam President, I believe Senator Boyle is 

 3   asking about the Excluded Workers Fund, which 

 4   Senator Ramos will be handling.

 5                SENATOR BOYLE:   Yeah. 

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:    Senator 

 7   Ramos, will you yield?  

 8                SENATOR RAMOS:   I do yield, 

 9   Madam President.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

11   Ramos yields.

12                SENATOR RAMOS:   Thank you.  

13                SENATOR BOYLE:   Thank you, 

14   Madam President.

15                Senator, a couple of quick questions 

16   about the so-called Excluded Worker Fund.  It's 

17   approximately $2.1 billion, is that correct?  

18                SENATOR RAMOS:   That's correct.  

19   Through you, Madam President.

20                SENATOR BOYLE:   And through you, 

21   Madam President, I don't think I've ever seen 

22   this much money spent --

23                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

24   Boyle, are you asking the sponsor to yield?

25                SENATOR BOYLE:   Yes, I do, I'm 


                                                               2483

 1   sorry.  Through you, Madam President.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Will the 

 3   sponsor yield?

 4                SENATOR RAMOS:   I yield.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

 6   sponsor will yield.

 7                SENATOR BOYLE:   Thank you.  

 8                I don't believe I've seen this much 

 9   money spent with the rules changing till very 

10   recently, as far as -- as long as 15 minutes ago 

11   it seemed like things were changing about the 

12   bill.  Can you just give me the Reader's Digest 

13   version of how this is going to work, there's two 

14   tiers -- how is the Excluded Fund supposed to 

15   work?  

16                SENATOR RAMOS:   Well, you know, 

17   I've never seen a fund this size to help the most 

18   vulnerable workers in New York State in my life 

19   either.  But I'm very proud of it.  Because with 

20   it, we're actually revitalizing several local 

21   communities across the state, including in both 

22   your and my districts.  

23                So through this, what we're doing is 

24   recognizing the labor of those excluded workers, 

25   who weren't able to qualify for stimulus checks, 


                                                               2484

 1   for PUA or for unemployment insurance.  They'll 

 2   have to prove identity, they'll have to prove 

 3   residency, and they'll have to prove loss of 

 4   income as well.

 5                SENATOR BOYLE:   Through you, 

 6   Madam President, will the sponsor continue to 

 7   yield.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Will the 

 9   sponsor yield?

10                SENATOR RAMOS:   I do.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

12   sponsor yields.

13                SENATOR BOYLE:   There was a point 

14   in time, I don't know if it's still the case, 

15   where recently released convicted felons were 

16   part of this fund.  Is that the case still, or 

17   has that changed? 

18                SENATOR RAMOS:   No one -- 

19   Madam President, through you, no one is a part of 

20   this fund, as it doesn't exist yet.

21                SENATOR BOYLE:   Through you, 

22   Madam President, if she'll continue to yield.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

24   sponsor yield?

25                SENATOR RAMOS:   I continue to 


                                                               2485

 1   yield.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

 3   sponsor yields.

 4                SENATOR BOYLE:   Assuming this bill 

 5   passes and it's put into law with regulations, 

 6   would convicted felons, recently released, who 

 7   may have lost employment during the pandemic be 

 8   eligible for funds under this fund?  

 9                SENATOR RAMOS:   Through you, 

10   Madam President, only if they are able to show 

11   the different proofs that are needed in order to 

12   qualify for the fund.

13                Based on our calculations and how 

14   we've designed the fund, we wouldn't estimate 

15   that to be a significant amount of people at all.  

16   In fact, the idea is that you worked for a 

17   significant period of time and you are able to 

18   prove loss of income throughout the past few 

19   months, almost a year of the pandemic, 

20   retroactively.  And so this will largely help 

21   other different types of working families.

22                SENATOR BOYLE:   Through you, 

23   Madam President, would the Senator continue to 

24   yield.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 


                                                               2486

 1   sponsor yield?

 2                SENATOR RAMOS:   I do.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

 4   sponsor yields.

 5                SENATOR BOYLE:   Senator, so do you 

 6   have an approximate number of people who would be 

 7   eligible for this fund.

 8                SENATOR RAMOS:   Well, we 

 9   approximately have five -- I think over 

10   500,000 -- well, I'm being told that we are 

11   expecting approximately 160,000 New Yorkers to be 

12   eligible for this bill.  But remember, they'll 

13   have to apply first.

14                SENATOR BOYLE:   Through you, 

15   Madam President, would the Senator continue to 

16   yield.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

18   sponsor yield?

19                SENATOR RAMOS:   I do.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

21   sponsor yields.

22                SENATOR BOYLE:   So fair to say that 

23   a large number of these workers are undocumented 

24   that would be eligible for this fund, is that 

25   correct?  


                                                               2487

 1                SENATOR RAMOS:   That's right, 

 2   Senator.  And I appreciate your nomenclature.

 3                SENATOR BOYLE:   So through you, 

 4   Madam President, would the Senator continue to 

 5   yield.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

 7   sponsor yield?

 8                SENATOR RAMOS:   I do, 

 9   Madam President.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

11   sponsor yields.

12                SENATOR BOYLE:   California, I 

13   believe, did something similar, but they limited 

14   the funds going to these excluded workers to 

15   approximately $500.  Under this piece of 

16   legislation it would be $15,000 plus, and for 

17   those without identification numbers it would be 

18   $3,200, is that correct?  Why didn't you go the 

19   California route, is my question.

20                SENATOR RAMOS:   Through you, 

21   Madam President, the California program is 

22   actually not very comparable to what we're trying 

23   to create here tonight.  The California model 

24   only allocated $125 million for such a large 

25   state and worked with local organizations, 


                                                               2488

 1   not-for-profits in California, in order to 

 2   distribute that money.

 3                This is a fully state-run program in 

 4   order to put the proper safeguards in place and 

 5   again be able to recognize retroactively the hard 

 6   work of those who have been paying taxes and 

 7   contributing to our economy so generously.

 8                SENATOR BOYLE:   Through you, 

 9   Madam President, will the Senator continue to 

10   yield.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

12   sponsor yield?

13                SENATOR RAMOS:   I do.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

15   sponsor yields.

16                SENATOR BOYLE:   So Senator, there's 

17   two tiers.  One is for those that have ITINs and 

18   those that do not.  Is that correct, the 15,600 

19   versus the 3,200, if you have an Individual 

20   Taxpayer Identification Number?  

21                SENATOR RAMOS:   That is correct.

22                SENATOR BOYLE:   So explain to me, 

23   please, the ones who do not have Individual 

24   Taxpayer Identification Numbers, how do they 

25   prove they deserve to have this money, that 


                                                               2489

 1   they've been working or -- this is -- $3,200 is a 

 2   lot of money, obviously.  How is that going to 

 3   work in practice?  

 4                SENATOR RAMOS:   Well, it's the same 

 5   amount of money that was given through the 

 6   federal stimulus check.  Those workers who apply 

 7   for the Tier 2 benefit would be subject to a list 

 8   of proof promulgated by the Commissioner of the 

 9   Department of Labor.

10                SENATOR BOYLE:   Through you, 

11   Madam President, would the Senator continue to 

12   yield?

13                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Does the 

14   sponsor yield?

15                SENATOR RAMOS:   I do.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

17   sponsor yields.

18                SENATOR BOYLE:   So the criteria 

19   during the period of unemployment, what do they 

20   have to prove -- if you don't have an Individual 

21   Taxpayer Identification Number, how do you prove 

22   that you were working, that you are deserving of 

23   these funds on an individual basis?  

24                SENATOR RAMOS:   Well, like I 

25   mentioned, Senator, the Commissioner of Labor 


                                                               2490

 1   would have to promulgate a list and develop a 

 2   point system.  That's what we're entrusting her, 

 3   in this case, to do.

 4                But ideally they could use pay stubs 

 5   and correspondence with their employers, 

 6   hopefully school records, and all sorts of other 

 7   means of communication showing, you know, their 

 8   residency and their loss of income here.

 9                SENATOR BOYLE:   Madam President, on 

10   the bill.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

12   Boyle on the bill.

13                SENATOR BOYLE:   Thank you.  

14                While I appreciate the Senator's 

15   efforts to take care of some excluded workers, I 

16   think this aspect of the revenue bill is highly 

17   misguided.  And I believe that I speak for all 

18   the members on my side of the aisle and perhaps a 

19   few members on the other side of the aisle.

20                $2.1 billion is a tremendous amount 

21   of money -- perhaps not in the context of this 

22   budget.  I noted my first budget as a member of 

23   the State Legislature was in 1994, and it was $33 

24   billion for the New York State Budget.  This is 

25   $212 billion, in one political career.  Well 


                                                               2491

 1   beyond the rate of inflation.  And part of that 

 2   goes to this $2.1 billion.

 3                Obviously we've seen, in the media, 

 4   reports about a large number of individuals 

 5   coming across our southern border by the hundreds 

 6   of thousands.  And I believe that that is an area 

 7   for immigration policy out of Washington, not for 

 8   us to solve in New York State.  

 9                Because I believe what's going to 

10   happen is that the word is going to spread in 

11   South and Central America, in Europe, in Asia, 

12   everywhere, to say -- they don't get into the 

13   details of how you're going to qualify for funds 

14   under this excluded worker program, they're just 

15   going to hear New York State, you can come, you 

16   can get a driver's license, you can get free 

17   college, and now you can get $15,000.  And so 

18   they're going to pour into New York State.  And 

19   God knows what that's going to do to our budget 

20   the next few years.  

21                I would point out that in the State 

22   of New York we have fewer people than both the 

23   State of Texas and the State of Florida, yet our 

24   State Budget as of tonight will be more than both 

25   of them combined.  Texas and Florida are not 


                                                               2492

 1   Third World countries.  No one's starving there.  

 2   They're doing very well, actually.  And yet our 

 3   State Budget, including programs like this, has 

 4   reached a level of more than both of their state 

 5   budgets combined.  

 6                This is going to be a huge problem 

 7   going into the outyears and a huge problem in the 

 8   short term.

 9                Again, I think your heart is in the 

10   right place, Senators, but this Excluded Workers 

11   Fund is ripe for disaster.  It's going to be a 

12   regulatory and administrative nightmare, and 

13   we're going to see it soon enough.  

14                I'm going to vote no on this bill 

15   and the rest of the budget.  

16                Thank you, Madam President.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

18   you, Senator.

19                Senator O'Mara.

20                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

21   Madam President.  Would Chairwoman Krueger yield 

22   for some questions.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:    

24   Senator Krueger, would you yield?  

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.


                                                               2493

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 2   Krueger yields.

 3                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

 4   Senator.  

 5                We've been through some of these 

 6   figures at the outset of our debating earlier 

 7   today, and I'm going to try not to reiterate too 

 8   much of that.  But this revenue bill before us, 

 9   how much revenue is being raised by this budget?

10                SENATOR O'MARA:   In total, the 

11   total revenue for this budget?  

12                SENATOR O'MARA:   Yes, in total.

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   88.114 billion in 

14   All Funds receipts, taxes.

15                SENATOR O'MARA:   Okay.  This -- 

16   through you, Madam President, if the Senator 

17   would continue to yield.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator  

19   Krueger, do you yield?  

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

22   Krueger yields.

23                SENATOR O'MARA:   This -- according 

24   to the financial plan that was delivered to us 

25   earlier, the State Funds portion of this budget 


                                                               2494

 1   includes approximately an $8 billion increase, 

 2   which is an 8.1 percent increase over last year?  

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   That's correct.

 4                SENATOR O'MARA:   And what is the --

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 6   O'Mara, are you asking Senator Krueger to yield?  

 7                SENATOR O'MARA:   Yes, 

 8   Madam President, will the Senator continue to 

 9   yield.  Sorry, it's getting late.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

11   Krueger, do you yield? 

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

14   Krueger yields.

15                SENATOR O'MARA:   What is the CPI 

16   anticipated for the next fiscal year?  

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   2.2 percent.

18                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

19   Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to 

20   yield.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

22   Krueger, do you yield?  

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

25   Krueger yields.


                                                               2495

 1                SENATOR O'MARA:   So we are roughly 

 2   four times outpacing the CPI with this budget 

 3   proposal.  And to do that, in addition to some 

 4   $12.7 billion-plus coming from the federal 

 5   government, we're raising a variety of taxes in 

 6   this budget, correct?  

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We are.

 8                SENATOR O'MARA:   The -- through 

 9   you, Madam President, if the sponsor -- if the 

10   Senator will yield.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

12   Krueger, would you yield?  

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

15   Krueger yields.

16                SENATOR O'MARA:   We're 

17   substantially increasing personal income taxes on 

18   wealthy New Yorkers earning over a million 

19   dollars.  Through that personal income tax 

20   increase that we have, how much revenue is 

21   anticipated to be generated in this year and next 

22   year's fiscal years?

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Okay.  So for 

24   this year, 2.753 billion will be new revenue from 

25   the temporary PIT high-income surcharge, and next 


                                                               2496

 1   year that will grow to 3.251 billion.

 2                SENATOR O'MARA:   Okay.  Through 

 3   you, Madam President, if the Senator would 

 4   continue to yield.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 6   Krueger, do you yield?  

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 9   Krueger yields.

10                SENATOR O'MARA:   So we are raising 

11   taxes in excess of $2 billion, closer to 

12   $3 billion this year on the income tax increase, 

13   and we are turning around and giving $2.1 billion 

14   to basically illegal immigrants that are here 

15   that did not qualify for unemployment benefits 

16   during the pandemic?  

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We are creating a 

18   fund to provide benefits to people who can prove 

19   that they are here, lost their jobs, were not 

20   eligible for federal benefits because of national 

21   immigration policies that do not allow them to be 

22   defined as here legally.

23                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

24   Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to 

25   yield.


                                                               2497

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 2   Krueger, do you yield?  

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 5   Krueger yields.

 6                SENATOR O'MARA:   So those that are 

 7   here in violation of our national immigration 

 8   laws are here in violation of our national 

 9   immigration laws and are not properly documented 

10   to be in this country or in the State of 

11   New York, is that correct?

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Well, they don't 

13   have legal status under our federal immigration 

14   laws.  I am not sure they have violated any 

15   status under New York State laws because I don't 

16   think we have immigration laws in the State of 

17   New York.

18                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

19   Madam President, if the sponsor would yield.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

21   Krueger, do you yield?  

22                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

24   Krueger yields.

25                SENATOR O'MARA:   Is an immigrant 


                                                               2498

 1   that is in the State of New York without proper 

 2   documentation eligible under New York State law 

 3   to have a job, to be employed?

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I know what the 

 5   federal rules are.  I -- I'm not sure if there's 

 6   an explicit law that says that you can't have a 

 7   job.

 8                SENATOR O'MARA:   Okay.

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We certainly know 

10   that there are many people hiring these people 

11   who are citizens, who are hiring people who don't 

12   have federal immigration status.  So there's 

13   certainly an ongoing economic relationship 

14   between people who live in the State of New York 

15   legally becoming employers for people who don't 

16   have federal legal status.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

18   Ramos, why do you rise?

19                SENATOR RAMOS:   I rise as the 

20   author of this part of our budget bill and I 

21   would like to offer some clarity to the questions 

22   from the gentleman.  

23                You know, ultimately documentation 

24   is irrelevant to whether a human being needs to 

25   eat or pay rent.  And I am sure that the Senator 


                                                               2499

 1   would like for people to catch up on their rent 

 2   and not find another means to be able to provide 

 3   for themselves and their families.  

 4                And so what we're doing here is 

 5   actually contributing millions of dollars into 

 6   all sorts of sections across New York, money that 

 7   will be spent on the aforementioned things but 

 8   also will become disposable income for 

 9   undocumented New Yorkers -- no human being is 

10   illegal -- for them to be able to spend this 

11   money in their local economic corridors where 

12   small businesses have been hurting so much.

13                Thank you.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

15   you, Senator Ramos.

16                Senator O'Mara.

17                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

18   Senator Ramos.

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   If you would like 

20   to continue to question Senator Ramos -- who to 

21   be honest is the originator of the original bill, 

22   so she may have more answers for you, but I'm 

23   happy to do my best.  Whichever you wish.

24                SENATOR RAMOS:   (Inaudible.) 

25                SENATOR O'MARA:   Madam President, 


                                                               2500

 1   would Senator Krueger continue to yield.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 3   Krueger, do you yield?  

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 6   Krueger yields.

 7                SENATOR O'MARA:   I was moving on 

 8   from the income tax increases to -- to the 

 9   corporate business taxes that are being increased 

10   in this revenue bill pursuant to Part HHH, which 

11   purports to raise $750 million in new corporate 

12   franchise taxes in the next fiscal year.  

13                Can you outline for us the corporate 

14   franchise increase, who it applies to, and 

15   exactly what the rates are going to be?  

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Businesses with 

17   net business income of 5 million or more will see 

18   their tax rate go up from 6.5 percent to 

19   7.25 percent.  Then businesses -- (pause). 

20                The proposal also reintroduces the 

21   capital base test, the corporate franchise tax 

22   instituting a rate of 0.1875 percent, but 

23   cooperative housing corporations would be exempt 

24   from that category.  So it doesn't apply to them.  

25   Sorry, co-ops and small businesses will not face 


                                                               2501

 1   the capital base test.

 2                SENATOR O'MARA:   If the Senator 

 3   would continue to yield.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator  

 5   Krueger, do you yield?

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 8   Krueger yields.

 9                SENATOR O'MARA:   What is the 

10   definition of small business in this capital base 

11   test?

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So it's a 

13   three-part test:  Income of less than 390,000 a 

14   year, business income; less than a hundred 

15   workers; and less than a million dollars in 

16   additional capital in a given year.

17                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

18   Senator.

19                Will Senator Krueger continue to 

20   yield.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

22   Krueger, do you yield?  

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I shall.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

25   Krueger yields.


                                                               2502

 1                SENATOR O'MARA:   Since it's 

 2   estimated that this -- this tax -- this tax 

 3   that's being set up in Part HHH will provide an 

 4   increase in revenue of $750 million.  Of that 

 5   $750 million, which -- how much is related to the 

 6   capital base test and how much to the increase in 

 7   the franchise rate from 6.5 to 7.25?  

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We don't have a 

 9   number for you, I'm sorry.  But we assume the 

10   vast majority is the percentage increase.

11                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

12   Madam President, will Senator Krueger continue to 

13   yield.

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

16   Krueger yields.

17                SENATOR O'MARA:   So we're 

18   implementing this capital base test, yet have no 

19   forecast on what types of revenue is going to be 

20   generated from that?

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So it's part of 

22   the same package on the same businesses.  And to 

23   be quite honest, when we were looking at this we 

24   weren't necessarily aware of the interconnection 

25   of the corporate base tax, so that we built that 


                                                               2503

 1   in as well, to make sure that we were being 

 2   consistent with how we approached our corporate 

 3   franchise tax in New York State.  

 4                Then we realized, after our first 

 5   run at it, that we hadn't intended to hit 

 6   corporate housing or small businesses, so we 

 7   worked backwards and removed that.  So it sort of 

 8   ends up being a package in tax policy.

 9                SENATOR O'MARA:   Will Senator 

10   Krueger continue to yield.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

12   Krueger, do you yield?  

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

15   Krueger yields.

16                SENATOR O'MARA:   Prior to this 

17   increase, under current law, the Citizens Budget 

18   Commission reported in June of 2020 that New York 

19   State businesses pay the highest corporate 

20   franchise taxes in the country.  

21                How is it wise at this point of 

22   economic turmoil due to the pandemic, how is it 

23   wise for us in New York to increase taxes that 

24   are already the highest in the country on 

25   corporations?


                                                               2504

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So I didn't read 

 2   the CBC report, so I'll just take it at face 

 3   value that New York may have the highest.  

 4                But interestingly, prior to that 

 5   report the Trump administration reduced corporate 

 6   franchise taxes on businesses in the United 

 7   States by something like 13 to 20 percent.  So 

 8   we're doing a less than 1 percent increase where 

 9   these same companies saw a dramatic decrease in 

10   their corporate franchise taxes.  

11                And these are not the businesses 

12   that are in trouble.  We're trying to make sure 

13   that we are applying it to non-small businesses 

14   who -- many of whom are doing extremely well in 

15   today's economy.

16                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you.

17                Through you, Madam President, will 

18   the sponsor continue to yield.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator  

20   Krueger, do you yield?  

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

23   Krueger yields.

24                SENATOR O'MARA:   Does that 

25   corporate franchise tax increase apply to 


                                                               2505

 1   manufacturing entities?

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   No.

 3                I also just want to clarify, if I 

 4   might.  If you -- the corporate franchise tax is 

 5   based on making your money off of New Yorkers, 

 6   not whether or not you're here in New York.  So 

 7   that this is not a situation where somebody would 

 8   pick up and leave New York State, because they 

 9   would still owe the tax.

10                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

11   Madam President, if the sponsor will continue to 

12   yield.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

14   Krueger, do you yield?  

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

17   Krueger yields.

18                SENATOR O'MARA:   I asked about 

19   manufacturers in particular because several years 

20   ago we eliminated the corporate franchise tax for 

21   manufacturers.  And that really only ended up 

22   applying to larger corporations and did not apply 

23   to so-called pass-through entities that were 

24   manufacturers, such as C-corps -- or, I mean, 

25   S-corps and LLCs, partnerships and the like.


                                                               2506

 1                And we continued discussions on how 

 2   to make up for those entities because they got 

 3   passed by because of their pass-through income, 

 4   and we never did anything for them.  Are we doing 

 5   anything in this budget to help those 

 6   manufacturers that make up about 75 percent of 

 7   manufacturers in the state?

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I am told happily 

 9   yes, that in Part C we allow a new option with 

10   pass-through for many of these types of 

11   corporations that will allow them to change their 

12   structure and significantly reduce the federal 

13   taxes that they owe.

14                SENATOR O'MARA:   Will the sponsor 

15   continue to yield.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

17   Krueger, do you yield?  

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

20   Krueger yields.

21                SENATOR O'MARA:   Just to clarify, 

22   it will reduce the federal taxes they owe?  What 

23   about the state taxes they owe?

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   The state taxes 

25   stay the same.  But they would be able to 


                                                               2507

 1   overcome some of the increased taxes they face 

 2   because of the SALT policies that went into 

 3   effect.

 4                And so when you're a business and 

 5   you're looking at your total tax bill, I'm not 

 6   totally sure that you care which of it is the 

 7   state versus which is the federal, as long as 

 8   it's reducing for you.

 9                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

10   Madam President, if the sponsor will continue to 

11   yield.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

13   Krueger, do you yield?  

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

16   Krueger yields.

17                SENATOR O'MARA:   Since you've taken 

18   this action in light of SALT, certainly 

19   doesn't -- and the SALT had arguably the biggest 

20   impact on the wealthy in costing them in federal 

21   taxes, how is it wise to be now increasing the 

22   personal income taxes on those same wealthy that 

23   have the double whammy of the SALT issue?

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So SALT per se 

25   wasn't particularly relevant for people at the 


                                                               2508

 1   very high end of wealth, because they were doing 

 2   alternative taxes or it didn't translate into a 

 3   significant impact on their overall taxes.

 4                The fact that we are increasing 

 5   taxes on the highest earners, again, doesn't 

 6   necessarily mean that they're going to see a 

 7   significant tax increase, because they too 

 8   received significant reductions in taxes through 

 9   the federal Trump tax policy changes of 2018.

10                So the federal government reduced 

11   taxes for the wealthy even as they were doing 

12   SALT, so it didn't translate into a net negative 

13   for wealthy New Yorkers.  We are doing a slight 

14   bump in their PIT which, yes, means a little more 

15   tax from these families.  But, with all due 

16   respect, not particularly significant given the 

17   amount of money that they are earning or have.

18                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

19   Senator Krueger.

20                Would the Senator continue to yield, 

21   Madam President.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

23   Krueger, will --

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 


                                                               2509

 1   Krueger yields.

 2                SENATOR O'MARA:   First of all, the 

 3   alternative minimum tax really has no impact on 

 4   earners over $10 million.  Secondly, I have a 

 5   Brookings report here that indicates that 

 6   removing the SALT cap would be a massive tax cut 

 7   for the rich, that 57 percent of the SALT impact 

 8   affects the top 1 percent of all taxpayers in 

 9   New York.

10                (Pause.)

11                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm sorry, was 

12   there a question that I left you hanging on?  

13                SENATOR O'MARA:   Your argument that 

14   the SALT didn't impact the highest of earners is 

15   disputed by the Brookings report.  

16                And so that will be, again, a much 

17   more significant impact to the wealthy.  And I am 

18   not -- I'm not crying for the income tax impact 

19   to these wealthy individuals, because certainly I 

20   am not one and I'm not sure how many are even in 

21   the Senate district that I represent, maybe a 

22   handful of them.  

23                My concern is with these wealthy 

24   individuals fleeing New York State, which is a 

25   concern over increased taxes.  What is the 


                                                               2510

 1   Majority's concern or lack thereof with these 

 2   increased taxes and running more wealthy 

 3   individuals out of New York that provide a 

 4   substantial portion of our overall revenues 

 5   generated in the state through income taxes?

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So even though 

 7   there's tax brackets that go up above 

 8   $10 million, the vast majority of taxpayers will 

 9   actually be in the 2 to 5 million range.

10                So the fact that SALT is -- or the 

11   loss of SALT has had a real impact on people with 

12   revenue -- with taxes -- excuse me.  That's what 

13   happens when you try to talk at 12:30 in the 

14   night.

15                Even though, as you point out, the 

16   impact of SALT is very significant on people with 

17   10 million or more in income -- I believe that's 

18   what you just told me -- that's not that many 

19   people who will be impacted by our tax change.  

20   The tax change definitely has a larger impact -- 

21   total number of households -- on people below the 

22   10 million mark, between 2 million and 10.

23                So the SALT impact is only on a 

24   relatively small number of the total number of 

25   households that will be impacted by this, which I 


                                                               2511

 1   believe is a total of 50,000 households in the 

 2   state who will be impacted.

 3                As far as their behavior of -- would 

 4   this be something that would make them decide to 

 5   leave, the research shows that over history, no, 

 6   marginal increases of 1 or 2 percent on PIT does 

 7   not motivate them to leave.  

 8                Some of the complexity for New York 

 9   is, according to the data, about half of these 

10   people are already nonresidents.  So they're 

11   paying New York taxes because they're making 

12   their money here, but they're not residents of 

13   New York.  So the decision is not necessarily 

14   would they pick up and leave.  

15                Would they literally stop doing 

16   everything that they do in New York to make them 

17   this kind of money because we increased their 

18   marginal tax rate by 1 or 2 percent?  And I think 

19   there the research is pretty clear that this 

20   would not be enough of a change in income to 

21   motivate people to pick up and stop doing 

22   everything that they do here, all their business, 

23   stop doing their business here.  They made their 

24   wealth here, and they would give it all up and 

25   start somewhere new for a marginal tax increase 


                                                               2512

 1   with a sunset date?  Again, research shows that 

 2   is not what motivates wealthier people to pick up 

 3   and leave.

 4                Would we lose some?  I think yes.  

 5   But the interesting research is we are producing 

 6   millionaires and billionaires faster in New York 

 7   than we lose them.  I'm not suggesting there's a 

 8   correlation between if you have high taxes, you 

 9   get even more wealthy people.  But I do think 

10   there's a correlation that this is the State of 

11   New York and for most of these people, their home 

12   is in the New York City area.  And they come here 

13   to make their wealth, and then they get addicted 

14   to the glories of New York State and they can't 

15   imagine wanting to live anywhere else, certainly 

16   not full-time.  

17                And yes, it's been a bad year with 

18   the pandemic, I'm the first to admit it.  But 

19   none of those fundamentals have changed, and so 

20   we're already seeing them returning.  We're 

21   already watching more residential sales 

22   happening.  

23                And so I think people come to 

24   New York and stay in New York because we have an 

25   infrastructure that will support the businesses 


                                                               2513

 1   that they need and want to have, that we have an 

 2   educated workforce for them, that we have the 

 3   beauties and advantages of New York State, one of 

 4   the only states in the country at this point 

 5   which isn't suffering fire, flooding, water 

 6   crises.  

 7                I mean, we have a lot of really 

 8   important natural resources in our favor heading 

 9   into the next millennium.  And that they balance 

10   all that, and they say a couple dollars more off 

11   my taxes -- or a couple dollars more of paying 

12   tax, and that isn't their decision-making.

13                So I'm not that concerned that we 

14   lose our tax base.  I am concerned that we don't 

15   have the infrastructure and services for the 

16   people of the state, and this is a way to help us 

17   accomplish that.

18                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

19   Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to 

20   yield.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

22   Krueger, do you yield?  

23                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, of course.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

25   Krueger yields.


                                                               2514

 1                SENATOR O'MARA:   I certainly agree 

 2   with you with all of the positives and 

 3   attractiveness of New York State.

 4                However, making it less attractive 

 5   to the wealthy, who could easily spend one day 

 6   less than six months of the year in New York and 

 7   one day more than six months of the year 

 8   elsewhere, to avoid this increased tax 

 9   liability -- the concern of the loss of those 

10   revenue generators could be catastrophic to 

11   New York State, particularly with what could be 

12   substantial impact to the financial industry, 

13   which creates over 20 percent of our overall 

14   state revenues.  And the risk of running them out 

15   of the state is a significant risk that we keep 

16   pushing, or your side of the aisle keeps pushing 

17   more, more, more.  

18                And that we're raising, in this 

19   budget, billions of dollars in new taxes at the 

20   same time receiving a windfall of nearly 

21   $13 billion of federal coronavirus money, seems 

22   very shortsighted when we're trying to rebuild 

23   our economy.

24                Do you not think, Senator Krueger, 

25   that our economy would rebound faster with not 


                                                               2515

 1   increasing taxes, with allowing job creators, 

 2   business owners to do what they do and invest and 

 3   create jobs and we could build revenue in the 

 4   state that way as well?

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   There's lots of 

 6   different economic theories of what results in 

 7   what.  I believe you were just describing we'd be 

 8   better off sticking with a trickle-down theory of 

 9   economics:  Don't tax people to cover the costs 

10   of programs that you know are needed, and let the 

11   wealthy entrepreneurs make as much money as they 

12   can and then the economy will trickle down to 

13   others.

14                The problem is that theory has been 

15   disputed and debunked, I think since Ronald 

16   Reagan.  Because raising money for yourself 

17   doesn't mean you do create jobs.  It doesn't mean 

18   you reinvest in activities that create jobs.  It 

19   doesn't mean that you get economic outcomes for 

20   other people.  Ironically, the excluded worker 

21   program is much more likely to have an immediate 

22   economic-generator effect in our local economy 

23   than someone making billions of dollars deciding 

24   to do offshore investing.  

25                And so I'm not at all convinced that 


                                                               2516

 1   having taxes that allow you to provide 

 2   infrastructure, good education, save healthcare, 

 3   clean water, clean air, aren't far more important 

 4   for creating a sustainable economy with jobs and 

 5   job growth.  And I certainly don't think telling 

 6   50,000 people, You hold on to that extra money 

 7   and that we're counting on you to be our stimulus 

 8   and to create our jobs -- because I'm telling 

 9   you, if you read the research, that's not what 

10   has ever been a successful outcome of 

11   trickle-down theory.

12                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

13   Senator.

14                Madam President, if the Senator will 

15   continue to yield.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

17   Krueger, do you yield?  

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will, 

19   Madam President.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

21   Krueger yields.

22                SENATOR O'MARA:   I would think it a 

23   far stretch for us here in this Legislature to in 

24   any way intimate that we have a trickle-down 

25   economy here in New York State, with the highest 


                                                               2517

 1   tax burden of all but one other state in the 

 2   country when you combine income taxes, property 

 3   taxes, sales taxes, everywhere-you-turn-around 

 4   taxes in this state, and we continue to burden 

 5   them with this budget and the increase in taxes 

 6   that are here.

 7                But I will move on from the tax 

 8   issue in the interests of the hour and covering 

 9   more topics here.  Part KKK, an early retirement 

10   incentive.  The -- everybody scatters.  

11                (Laughter.)

12                SENATOR O'MARA:   Oh, I mentioned 

13   KKK.  I didn't even think about that.  

14                (Laughter.)

15                SENATOR O'MARA:   Okay.  All right.  

16   Let's rename that section.  It's like the 13th 

17   floor.

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   We weren't 

19   thinking about it either, Tom.  Thanks for 

20   sharing.

21                (Laughter.)

22                SENATOR O'MARA:   The early 

23   retirement incentive that's in here --

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

25                SENATOR O'MARA:   -- is much more 


                                                               2518

 1   narrow than what the one-house budgets had had in 

 2   them.  And in fact, the early retirement 

 3   incentive that's being authorized in this final 

 4   budget applies only to employees of the City of 

 5   New York.

 6                What happened to the rest of the 

 7   employees in the State of New York?

 8                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So first, we're 

 9   allowing it for the City of New York because they 

10   have their own system.  It is different than the 

11   rest of the state's.  They had already made an 

12   agreement with the unions in the City of New York 

13   and set up a plan, and everybody said this is 

14   what we need to do and we have the resources to 

15   do it and we believe it's a win/win.  It's not 

16   costing the state money.  So we're basically just 

17   saying, Okay, you wanted to do this for 

18   yourselves, and we're allowing you to do it.

19                Some parts of the state have also 

20   said they are interested in it.  And we said, 

21   all right, have you set this up for yourself in 

22   the following ways, do you have the resources to 

23   do it, have you come to agreements with your 

24   unions?  And the answer was all over the place, 

25   depending on who you talked to -- whether they 


                                                               2519

 1   were interested at all, whether they thought it 

 2   was a terrible idea, whether they thought it was 

 3   a good idea.  

 4                And so we simply concluded that 

 5   there wasn't really a justification or a way to 

 6   give them this equivalent at this time.  And 

 7   we're not sure that they were asking for the 

 8   equivalent.  But let me just double-check what I 

 9   forgot to tell you.  

10                So the city's budget is balanced on 

11   the labor savings, and that's what's been 

12   planned.  The state's is not.  So it's not almost 

13   a necessity for the state nor something that was 

14   asked for by the state.  Some unions are more 

15   interested in it than others.  And then we got 

16   into localities and learned that the stories 

17   could be radically different from city to city, 

18   county to county.

19                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

20   Senator.

21                If the Senator will continue to 

22   yield.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

24   Krueger, do you yield?  

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm going to do 


                                                               2520

 1   my best, Madam President.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 3   Krueger yields.

 4                SENATOR O'MARA:   So it was 

 5   important enough to have in the one-house budget 

 6   but didn't make it through the final factor here.  

 7   Who was most opposed to the statewide early 

 8   retirement incentive?  Was it the Executive, or 

 9   was it one or the other or both branches of the 

10   Legislature?  Because it seems to me that from 

11   your description, the public employees unions of 

12   New York City carried the day but the public 

13   employees unions for the rest of the workers in 

14   the state did not.

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   It wasn't an 

16   either/or.  Because the public employees unions 

17   in the city had been in discussions with city 

18   government for an extended period of time and 

19   basically had already made their agreement and 

20   were coming to us so that we could say okay and 

21   check the box.  

22                At the time, when we were exploring 

23   the one-house budget bills, some of us assumed 

24   everybody else in the state would want the same 

25   options available.  But we hadn't gone and 


                                                               2521

 1   checked, to be quite honest, we just assumed 

 2   everybody will want something like this.  

 3                So it went into the one-house, and 

 4   then people started saying, here's why this would 

 5   be a huge problem over here where we are.  Here's 

 6   why we're not sure it's the best idea as a union, 

 7   over here where we are.  So we started hearing 

 8   very different stories coming from different 

 9   parts of the state.

10                So I don't know if there's an answer 

11   to who was most or least interested in it.  I 

12   don't think the Governor had ever proposed a 

13   statewide, so I can't say he was.  But I'm not 

14   sure he was sitting around discussing saying no 

15   either.  It just wasn't a scenario at the state 

16   level.

17                So because the state has a hiring 

18   freeze, the state unions were not necessarily so 

19   interested in this storyline.  Which is a 

20   different situation than the city.

21                So we really were -- in doing our 

22   due diligence, once we opened up the Pandora's 

23   box of maybe everybody wants this, we learned 

24   that's not necessarily true, and it can be very 

25   different stories.


                                                               2522

 1                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

 2   Madam President, if the sponsor will continue to 

 3   yield.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 5   Krueger, do you yield?  

 6                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 7                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 8   Krueger yields.

 9                SENATOR O'MARA:   On that last 

10   point, I certainly think that that could have 

11   easily been worked around, since one of the 

12   advantages of an early retirement incentive is to 

13   get rid of those that are longer in the tooth and 

14   higher on the salary range and replaced with 

15   newer, younger employees in the lower salary 

16   scale.  So that state hiring freeze certainly 

17   could have been manipulated to take that into 

18   account, I would think.  

19                Why couldn't that have been adjusted 

20   in the process?  

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Apparently you 

22   don't see any savings in a government 

23   union-structured workforce, even if you're hiring 

24   at Tier 6, the newest tier, because the money 

25   savings is only 30 years from now when they 


                                                               2523

 1   retire, not now.  And if you do have a hiring 

 2   freeze, both you as an agency are saying, oh, 

 3   people are retiring, but I can't replace them.  

 4   And even you as a union are saying, oh, people 

 5   are retiring, but I can't get new union workers.

 6                So again, it's not always as obvious 

 7   as it appears.

 8                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you.

 9                One final topic here for this 

10   section of the budget, Part X, deals with an 

11   issue that we certainly feel is unfair for local 

12   governments and is removing local control.  And 

13   Part X is establishing a standardized real 

14   property tax assessment for solar, wind and farm 

15   waste infrastructures.

16                Why is it necessary or why are we 

17   endeavoring into the area of local property 

18   assessment and taxation where we don't do it in 

19   any other areas?

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I believe that 

21   the answer -- oh, look, someone who will know for 

22   sure instead of you just letting me guess.  So 

23   I'm going to test my answer against his.

24                He liked my answer, so I'll give it 

25   to you.  One, we actually need a mechanism that 


                                                               2524

 1   will help us go forward with the sitings of 

 2   renewable energy options.  We need it because the 

 3   world is crying out for alternative, green 

 4   energy.

 5                And two, because these often end up 

 6   being fairly complicated negotiations, the local 

 7   property tax assessors and the local entity of 

 8   government get themselves in extended debate 

 9   about even being sure how to do it and what's 

10   fair and reasonable.  

11                So I actually think the state coming 

12   along and saying, Here, we can set up standards 

13   for you, we can show you how you can get this 

14   done successfully, is a win/win both for the 

15   localities wanting to make sure that they are 

16   getting a fair shake on the property tax 

17   realities and the State of New York, who has a 

18   mega-incentive to want to move forward with green 

19   energy projects.

20                SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

21   Madam President, if the sponsor will continue to 

22   yield.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

24   Krueger, do you yield?  

25                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.


                                                               2525

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 2   Krueger yields.

 3                SENATOR O'MARA:   I certainly 

 4   disagree with that analysis on this, and I 

 5   believe and members on this side of the aisle 

 6   believe that this is a significant intrusion into 

 7   local control, that these issues have always been 

 8   left up to local governments on assessing real 

 9   property.  That in my experience, both in my 

10   profession as an attorney and dealing with local 

11   governments throughout my district, industrial 

12   development agencies have been very effective in 

13   handling PILOT agreements for these types of 

14   projects.  

15                And there is a variable that I 

16   believe we're trying to get around with this 

17   legislation, and that is some communities simply 

18   don't want these large-scale wind and solar 

19   facilities in their communities.  They feel that 

20   they're a blight on their viewscapes that they 

21   have, which is part of the beauty of upstate 

22   New York.

23                And by standardizing these 

24   agreements, that's one less thing the community 

25   has in their ability to effectively negotiate and 


                                                               2526

 1   deal with these projects.  Aside from the fact 

 2   that just the State of New York wants them, 

 3   therefore we're going to ram them in the 

 4   communities whether they want them or not, is not 

 5   fair to us in rural communities in upstate 

 6   New York.

 7                So what is your response to the 

 8   concerns of those communities that want more 

 9   control, that want more ability to negotiate size 

10   and placement of these facilities, and this is 

11   taking away part of that negotiating ability?

12                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So it was not my 

13   understanding that we are removing all the tools 

14   a community has to object to a specific siting.  

15   This is simply on the resolution of the property 

16   tax arrangements and/or PILOTs.  

17                And I have to tell you, New York 

18   State is frequently referenced as a poster child 

19   for how not to set up property taxes.  We have 

20   more assessing units than states -- I'm trying to 

21   think.  We have over a thousand assessing units 

22   in New York State.  California has 60.  

23                So we have made ourselves into this 

24   just crossword puzzle of endless small assessing 

25   units, assessors.  We have these economic 


                                                               2527

 1   development corporations that don't necessarily 

 2   account to anyone.  We have confusing PILOT deals 

 3   that sometimes don't pay.  I think that this 

 4   actually cries out for some standardization.  But 

 5   I don't think it means that communities lose all 

 6   say over the location of these projects.

 7                SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

 8   Senator.  That's all I have.

 9                SENATOR KRUEGER:   You're welcome.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

11   you, Senator.

12                Senator Palumbo.

13                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

14   Madam President.  Would the chairwoman yield for 

15   a few quick questions, please.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

17   Krueger, do you yield?  

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Can I ask whether 

19   you mind if I sit while you ask the questions?  

20                SENATOR PALUMBO:   I certainly have 

21   no objection to that.  Thank you.

22                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Okay, I 

23   appreciate that.  Because it's now 1 a.m., and 

24   Senator O'Mara wore me out a little bit.

25                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Yes, certainly.  


                                                               2528

 1   And I'll try to be brief, in light of the hour.  

 2   And thank you.  And, Madam Chair, would you yield 

 3   for a few questions?

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I am happy to 

 5   answer questions.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 7   Krueger yields.

 8                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Standing, sitting 

 9   or otherwise.  That's certainly great.  Thank 

10   you.  

11                And I'd like to ask a few questions, 

12   if I may, on Part BBB, as in "boy," regarding the 

13   Professional Policing Act of 2021.  And this 

14   creates a council, just to give some -- as a 

15   reminder, so I can preface my question -- that 

16   requires essentially almost all law enforcement 

17   agencies in New York State to have a certified 

18   hiring practice through an accreditation council.  

19   Is that accurate?  Does that refresh your 

20   recollection?

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I am being 

22   told you're correct.

23                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Would the Senator 

24   still yield, please.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 


                                                               2529

 1   Krueger, do you yield?

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 4   Krueger yields.

 5                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

 6   Senator Krueger.  

 7                And that particular council then, 

 8   ultimately, in the next few years -- or those 

 9   law enforcement agencies, and it's almost all of 

10   them, with just limited exceptions, I believe the 

11   State Police special investigators and some 

12   agencies, but virtually all the little village 

13   departments, towns, statewide, will have to 

14   certify their police officers in the next few 

15   years.  Is that also accurate?

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So we're 

17   establishing certification for departments, not 

18   for individual officers.  So that if you're -- it 

19   will review your hiring practices for new 

20   officers, right, who will have to then meet the 

21   new standards.  But it is not requiring going 

22   retroactively back to your existing police 

23   officers and requiring new certifications or 

24   standards for them.

25                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Will the Senator 


                                                               2530

 1   continue to yield, please.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 3   Krueger, do you yield?  

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 6   Krueger yields.

 7                SENATOR PALUMBO:   So then just so 

 8   I'm clear, then, Senator Krueger, it would be 

 9   essentially for all prospective employees, and 

10   they would have to ultimately hire in accordance 

11   with those practices once they're certified.  Is 

12   that accurate?  

13                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, that would 

14   be correct.

15                SENATOR PALUMBO:   And in the 

16   event -- will the sponsor continue to yield?  

17                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

18   Krueger, do you yield?  

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

20                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

21   Krueger yields.

22                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

23   Senator.  

24                And in the event that those 

25   departments -- say, a small village department is 


                                                               2531

 1   not accredited in time, what's the sanction?  Are 

 2   they prohibited from hiring any further?  Do they 

 3   lose some sort of ability to even operate?  Would 

 4   you please explain that to me?

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   If the police 

 6   agency loses its certification, then the 

 7   individual police officers who were working for 

 8   them are no longer technically defined as police 

 9   officers because they're not working for an 

10   agency that is a police agency.  

11                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Would the Senator 

12   continue to yield.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:    

14   Senator Krueger, do you yield?  

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

16                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

17   Krueger yields.

18                SENATOR PALUMBO:   And the way I 

19   read this, Senator -- and please, again, correct 

20   me if I'm wrong -- that ultimately individual 

21   police officers would be certified police 

22   officers and then this council could subsequently 

23   remove that certification based upon an 

24   investigation or a complaint, on their own 

25   initiative or otherwise, concerning allegations 


                                                               2532

 1   of corruption, fraud, use of excessive force, 

 2   criminal activity, conflicts of interest, or 

 3   abuse by any police officer.  Is that accurate?

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So we believe it 

 5   is simply a clarification of existing law, where 

 6   they do go through training and are certified.  

 7                And it is clear that if they are 

 8   found guilty of any of the items you just listed 

 9   out, that would not be activities becoming of a 

10   police officer, that they absolutely could lose 

11   their job or their certification over that.

12                So we don't think it's new in law, 

13   but rather a clarification in a different 

14   section.

15                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Would 

16   Senator Krueger continue to yield for another 

17   question, please.  

18                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

19   Krueger, do you yield?

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

22   Krueger yields.

23                SENATOR PALUMBO:   And thank you, 

24   Senator.  I do appreciate that.  And the wrinkle 

25   is this -- and this is the concerns that I've 


                                                               2533

 1   been hearing from some law enforcement agencies, 

 2   is that this council is allowed to receive and 

 3   investigate complaints and then take some action.  

 4                So the concerns were -- and just 

 5   previously during some discussion you indicated 

 6   that, regarding the early retirement, you spoke 

 7   to some unions and stakeholders regarding their 

 8   positions.  I guess I have two questions, and if 

 9   you'd like, I'd certainly break them up.  

10                One, were any law enforcement 

11   unions -- was any of this discussed with any 

12   law enforcement unions, this particular council, 

13   in the creation of this bill?  And secondly, in 

14   that regard, are there any concerns that you may 

15   have regarding due process?  Because there 

16   already are processes in place with regard to 

17   police misconduct.

18                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So we do believe 

19   that the review process was built into this new 

20   model in a number of ways and places.  And 

21   probably I could just refer you to our staff to 

22   go over that, because that's fairly complex.  

23                But as far as talking to individual 

24   police unions, I confess that that was not a role 

25   for me.  I think that some did notify us of 


                                                               2534

 1   concerns.  And probably at 1:00 in the morning I 

 2   can't check with chairs of the relevant 

 3   committees or even members of the relevant 

 4   committees.  And I am not a member of those 

 5   committees.  

 6                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Will the Senator 

 7   continue to yield, please.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 9   Krueger, do you yield?  

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I will.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

12   Krueger yields.

13                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

14   Senator.  And I do appreciate that.  

15                I think the only wrinkle is, though, 

16   that this is going to become law in just a few 

17   hours.  And again, those concerns are that 

18   obviously there are -- the administrative body -- 

19   and again, this is just really a process issue.  

20   If someone's acting inappropriately in 

21   law enforcement, they need to be removed.  We all 

22   get that.  And everyone agrees, and particularly 

23   police officers agree with that.

24                But my point is that this particular 

25   commission looks a lot like the Office for 


                                                               2535

 1   Prosecutorial Misconduct that we had a few years 

 2   back that ultimately was subject to a lawsuit and 

 3   as a result of that lawsuit, it was declared 

 4   unconstitutional.  

 5                And now we have collective 

 6   bargaining agreements, we have certain -- for 

 7   example, in the New York City Police Department, 

 8   the Civilian Complaint Review Board, that is an 

 9   outside agency that investigates these types of 

10   claims that this commission would also -- or 

11   council would also investigate, and then 

12   subsequently there's administrative action.  And 

13   all of that is done by way of civil service 

14   issues and so forth.

15                So my question is -- and I know that 

16   we may not have real specifics, and I know that 

17   this may not have been discussed with these 

18   relevant agencies.  But are there any concerns 

19   that a council such as this would ultimately be 

20   unconstitutional with respect to investigating 

21   officer misconduct and, in the event that there 

22   are -- if it ultimately becomes law, which we 

23   believe it will, and there is -- this council is 

24   created and they ultimately take, upon even their 

25   own initiative or otherwise, they seek to remove 


                                                               2536

 1   the certification of a police officer, which 

 2   would otherwise essentially remove them from 

 3   duty?

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So I just got a 

 5   clarification which I think is very important to 

 6   understand.

 7                The role of this commission is not 

 8   to investigate police officers on the job who are 

 9   accused of something, it is only to do follow-up 

10   for police who have already left their job, 

11   perhaps under what's termed a dark cloud, and to 

12   make sure that there is full detail of exactly 

13   why they chose to leave or were asked to leave, 

14   so that the state register of these cases can 

15   make sure that you don't become a police officer 

16   in another location without people knowing that 

17   this is why you were no longer a police officer 

18   over there.

19                So you talked about the equivalent 

20   of a district attorney facing accusations of 

21   being -- you know, of violations.  I think it's 

22   more parallel to the system we have set up for 

23   some other professionals, doctors and nurses and 

24   doctor's practitioners, where they go in and 

25   determine were they accused of something, is it a 


                                                               2537

 1   basis -- did they have their right to practice in 

 2   that hospital taken away from them, should they 

 3   actually have their medical license taken away, 

 4   should there be notice that they should not be 

 5   hired at other hospitals in the State of 

 6   New York.  

 7                Which I think is actually a very 

 8   valuable, powerful and important tool in making 

 9   sure that the small number of bad apples in 

10   medicine are prevented from moving down the road 

11   to the next hospital or town to reopen shop and 

12   continue bad practice.  

13                And so if there is a storyline -- 

14   and I'm sure there is, because there's one in 

15   every profession -- where there are some bad 

16   apples and they have actually been forced out of 

17   a specific police community -- I guess department 

18   is the right term -- police department, but 

19   they're just hoping to move along and nobody 

20   should really notice and stop them from getting a 

21   job three towns over, I think it's actually an 

22   important thing that is very helpful to the 

23   police community overall to make sure that in 

24   fact the small number of bad-apple officers are 

25   not allowed to continue in the field.


                                                               2538

 1                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

 2   Senator.  Would you yield for two quick 

 3   questions, then I'm done.

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 6   Krueger, do you yield?

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 9   Krueger yields.

10                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

11   Senator.  

12                And in that regard, then -- so just 

13   so I'm clear, then -- this is more to compile 

14   data for the purposes of rehiring a police 

15   officer who was removed for cause or misconduct, 

16   and this is to create a central registry of those 

17   bad apples?  Is that really where -- what this is 

18   for?

19                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Apparently we 

20   already have a registry.  It's to make sure that 

21   it's a complete and detailed analysis so that we 

22   have the correct information.

23                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you.  

24                Would you yield for one more 

25   question, please?


                                                               2539

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 3   Krueger yields.

 4                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, 

 5   Senator.  

 6                So with that in mind, then, in light 

 7   of the fact that we've repealed 50A and that all 

 8   of police officer personnel files are FOILable 

 9   and public, what's the need for this particular 

10   registry if we have a registry, we now are 

11   requiring certification -- and I understand 

12   that -- which is already controlled by the 

13   training council in general.  

14                But what's the purpose for this, and 

15   how is this not redundant?

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So I don't think 

17   it's parallel.  I don't think your other police 

18   departments are going to FOIL the records in 

19   order to try to find out about another police 

20   officer from a different department applying for 

21   a job.  

22                This will ensure that in a state 

23   with a large number of different police forces, I 

24   believe all with the same goals, to uphold the 

25   laws of the State of New York, that there's a way 


                                                               2540

 1   to keep track of the bad apples to make sure that 

 2   you have correct information in that registry, 

 3   and to protect, frankly, not only the next police 

 4   department from making the mistake of hiring 

 5   them, but protect that next community as well.  

 6                But I don't really see it as 

 7   parallel or correlated to the 50A situation.

 8                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, Madam 

 9   Chairwoman.

10                On the bill, please, Madam 

11   President.

12                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

13   Palumbo on the bill.

14                SENATOR PALUMBO:   Thank you, Madam 

15   President.  

16                And, you know, I certainly 

17   understand the intention behind the creation of 

18   this, just speaking specifically to this part, 

19   the creation of this council, but I think that 

20   the way that this section is worded is very 

21   troublesome.  Because quite frankly, if someone 

22   is reapplying, say, that they did lose their job 

23   for misconduct or reasons that are otherwise 

24   outlined in this section, certainly a new agency 

25   is going to do a background check and in fact, if 


                                                               2541

 1   not even obtain the personnel -- the personnel 

 2   file, as a new employer, they can simply FOIL it.  

 3   Or someone else would ultimately broadcast that, 

 4   as we've seen since we've repealed 50A.

 5                Generally speaking on this bill, I 

 6   actually was concerned that we would be looking 

 7   to tax our way out of the pandemic when we 

 8   obviously dealt with what we've been dealing with 

 9   for the past year.  And we had a structural 

10   deficit of 6 billion prior to the pandemic, and 

11   the Governor said, I need $15 billion -- with a 

12   B -- from the federal government, and we'll be 

13   just fine.  Which also included, which was very 

14   artful, the pre-pandemic $6 billion losses that 

15   we were looking at.

16                And then the money rained down from 

17   Washington, or I should say rained up:  

18   12.6 billion.  Our revenue projections were 

19   2.5 billion higher than expected.  And so the 

20   bottom line was we had $15.1 billion more money 

21   than we expected, and we were going to be made 

22   whole, as if the pandemic never existed.  

23                And I said hallelujah.  A high-tax 

24   state like New York, my kids are going to be able 

25   to stay.  And then, my friends, we dropped a 


                                                               2542

 1   money bomb and a tax bomb on the residents of 

 2   this state.  

 3                We are losing more people than any 

 4   other big state in the country.  And we drop 

 5   another $4 billion in taxes on our small 

 6   businesses.  We hear grumblings from Washington 

 7   that they want to increase the corporate tax rate 

 8   to 28 percent.  So you add on top of that all of 

 9   our local taxes and burdens on businesses, why in 

10   the name of Pete would I ever invest in a 

11   business in New York?  And I love this state.  I 

12   was born and raised here.  Of course this is the 

13   greatest state on the planet, in my opinion.  

14                And we also have the Yankees, which 

15   are, quite frankly, the best sports team in the 

16   history of professional sports.  A story for 

17   another day.  We can agree to disagree, Senator.  

18   I see you over there.

19                But truly, at the end of the day, 

20   this is not the time to impose these additional 

21   taxes on the residents of this state -- and 

22   additional burdens, and additional regulations, 

23   and take even more control of our local 

24   governments, as pointed out by the ranker on the 

25   Finance Committee.


                                                               2543

 1                So, my friends, this is bad for 

 2   New York.  And unfortunately, I will be a no.  

 3   And I'd urge my colleagues to rethink this type 

 4   of government, because we won't be around for 

 5   much longer if we continue to govern in this 

 6   fashion.  

 7                Thank you, Madam President.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

 9   you, Senator.

10                Senator Lanza.

11                SENATOR LANZA:   Thank you, 

12   Madam President.  

13                I know the hour is late, and I will 

14   be as brief as I can be.  

15                I first want to begin by thanking 

16   Senator Krueger and Senator O'Mara for the 

17   lengthy debate and the analysis and all their 

18   work in -- both on the budget, but as important, 

19   I believe, in helping to educate the people of 

20   New York with respect to what is in the budget.  

21                And of course I thank the staff on 

22   both sides of the aisle for the hours and hours 

23   of work they put into this budget.  

24                And of course I thank my colleague, 

25   the floor leader, Senator Gianaris.


                                                               2544

 1                Madam President, I can go line by 

 2   line and talk about all the things that I do not 

 3   like in this budget, and I can talk about a few 

 4   things that I do like and that I think are for 

 5   good for the people of the State of New York.  

 6                But I want to sort of take a step 

 7   back and look at the big picture here and ask the 

 8   question that I think is the most relevant 

 9   question that we can ask here in the Senate:  

10   What does this budget mean for the people back 

11   home?  How will their lives change once this 

12   becomes enacted?  Are the overwhelming majority 

13   of New Yorkers' lives going to be better, are 

14   they going to be the same, are they going to be 

15   worse?  

16                As I said, I think there's a lot of 

17   good here.  But sadly, Madam President, I think 

18   the overall impact that this budget will have on 

19   the people of the State of New York is to put us 

20   off the road and in the wrong direction.  Because 

21   the bottom line here is that once this is 

22   enacted, it is going to cost billions and 

23   billions of dollars more to live in New York.

24                You know, we've heard that it's a 

25   slight increase there and a small increase there, 


                                                               2545

 1   and it's only going to affect these people over 

 2   there.  But the bottom line and the irrefutable 

 3   truth is that it costs -- it will cost billions 

 4   of dollars more to simply live in New York.  And 

 5   I argue, Madam President, that the cost is going 

 6   to be borne by every New Yorker.  

 7                You know, we've heard that only a 

 8   select few are going to pay the price.  We know 

 9   that it doesn't work that way.  You know, when 

10   you punish the job creators, the job seekers are 

11   hurt.  When you increase the cost to business to 

12   provide goods, to provide services, everyone pays 

13   more.  I truly believe that this is going to hurt 

14   both the people who are successful in New York 

15   and the people who are not.

16                We hear a lot about who may be 

17   getting money with this budget.  And you know, I 

18   commend my colleagues on both sides of the aisle.  

19   You know, people say a lot of things about 

20   politicians and elected officials in terms of 

21   what their motives are and why they want to 

22   serve.  And I know my colleagues here.  And I 

23   know, irrespective of the way we want to get 

24   things done, I know we all want to get the same 

25   thing done.  I know people serve here because 


                                                               2546

 1   they want to help, they want to do good.  And in 

 2   many respects what happens here on both sides of 

 3   the aisle is driven by good old-fashioned 

 4   charity, and that's a very normal motive.

 5                But I feel this budget misses the 

 6   mark.  I think about the people who are not 

 7   getting the relief they need.  Again, we hear 

 8   about who's getting money, where the checks may 

 9   be going.  Whether you're a person who doesn't 

10   even live in New York at this moment, you can 

11   come to New York tomorrow, play a little 

12   razzle-dazzle with some documents, and all of a 

13   sudden you get a check.  

14                But I want to talk about who is not 

15   getting the relief they need.  I think about -- I 

16   think about that woman back home on Staten Island 

17   who's raising a family, has one, maybe two jobs, 

18   follows all the rules, works all day long, doing 

19   everything she can to provide for her family.  

20   Barely making it month to month, paycheck to 

21   paycheck.  Again, following all the rules, she's 

22   a citizen, she works.  She's not getting any 

23   relief.  There's no check for her.

24                I think about the thousands of 

25   college students right here in New York -- my 


                                                               2547

 1   children, your children -- who are seeking a 

 2   better life for themselves, following the rules 

 3   going to school, studying, sacrificing, taking on 

 4   a mountain of student debt -- a debt I don't know 

 5   how they're going to pay.  Madam President, 

 6   there's no check for them.  There's no relief for 

 7   them.  In fact, things are no better and probably 

 8   worse.

 9                I think about the alarming uptick in 

10   crime in New York.  That affects everyone.  It 

11   affects the rich and the poor and in some 

12   respects it affects the poor more than it affects 

13   the rich.  I don't see anything here in this 

14   budget that is going to change and flatten that 

15   curve.

16                I think about the human tragedy of 

17   homelessness, Madam President.  There's -- there 

18   is not a member here, Republican or Democrat, 

19   that doesn't yearn to do something about that, 

20   and I don't see anything happening here.

21                You know, we talk about the 

22   disparity between the rich and the poor and the 

23   alarming gap between the two and how it's 

24   growing.  And that is a problem, Madam President.  

25   But I don't think the answer is to knock down the 


                                                               2548

 1   people at the top.  That doesn't solve the 

 2   problem for the people at the bottom.  

 3                I think the solution is to help the 

 4   people, to provide more opportunity, to enact 

 5   policies that create more jobs.  I think that's 

 6   the right way to do it.  Punishing the successful 

 7   does not help the people who are less fortunate.

 8                This idea -- and no matter what the 

 9   situation was, Madam President, whether or not 

10   there was a budget shortfall of 3 billion, 

11   4 billion, 7 billion, we were going to get 

12   federal relief, we weren't going to get federal 

13   relief.  All I heard from my colleagues was that 

14   no matter what the situation, we're going to 

15   raise taxes.  

16                That tells me that raising taxes was 

17   not the solution to a problem, but that it was 

18   part of a narrative, part of a desire and a goal 

19   to punish a class of people that are successful.  

20   Not because that money was needed to solve any 

21   problems, but simply because it was offensive to 

22   some that there are people who are that 

23   successful.  And so no matter what happened, no 

24   matter what we were told, we knew this was going 

25   to be the result, a ridiculous increase in taxes.


                                                               2549

 1                And I just want to touch on one last 

 2   thing.  You know, the biggest issue we've had 

 3   over the last year, both here in this state and 

 4   in the country, is this pandemic.  I don't see a 

 5   lot done here with respect to that.  There are a 

 6   lot of studies proposed, Madam President.  We do 

 7   that in this body, and there are certainly a lot 

 8   of studies proposed in the budget.

 9                What about the study to once and for 

10   all find out exactly what happened here in 

11   New York State?  Because no matter what you say, 

12   no matter what you think, the facts are right 

13   there.  We've passed, sadly, 50,000 deaths in the 

14   State of New York.  And you know the Health 

15   Department over here in the State of New York, 

16   they want to point their fingers over at Florida 

17   and other states.  You know, if you had a crystal 

18   ball, Madam President, at the beginning of this 

19   pandemic, the last state -- if you could look 

20   into the future, the last state you would have 

21   wanted to live in with your family was here in 

22   New York.  New York, with all its botched 

23   policies and its bully tactics, failed the people 

24   of New York in this pandemic.  More people died 

25   as a percentage of our population than anywhere 


                                                               2550

 1   in America.  

 2                The Health Department, I would 

 3   suggest, Madam President, Dr. Zucker, the Health 

 4   Department of New York City, has a lot of 

 5   explaining to do to the people of New York.  We 

 6   need those answers.  I demand to have those 

 7   answers, if for only to be able to avoid this 

 8   sort of thing in the future.  I think the budget 

 9   falls short with respect to helping the people of 

10   New York understand why their government failed 

11   them so miserably during this pandemic.

12                So, Madam President, when it comes 

13   time to vote on this portion of the budget, I'll 

14   be voting in the negative.  

15                And I thank my colleagues for all 

16   their work.  I just think this budget, all in 

17   all, fails the people of New York.  And I believe 

18   when we come back here next year and talk about 

19   another budget, we're going to have an even 

20   taller mountain to climb because we didn't set 

21   New York right and put it on the right path 

22   toward prosperity and health and safety.

23                Thank you, Madam President.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

25   you, Senator.


                                                               2551

 1                Are there any other Senators wishing 

 2   to be heard?  

 3                Seeing and hearing none, debate is 

 4   closed.  The Secretary will ring the bell.

 5                Read the last section.

 6                THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

 7   act shall take effect immediately.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

 9   roll.

10                (The Secretary called the roll.)

11                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:    

12   Senator Ramos to explain her vote.

13                SENATOR RAMOS:   Yes, thank you, 

14   Madam President.  I appreciate the opportunity to 

15   explain my vote.  

16                I'll be honest, I was expecting a 

17   little more debate on excluded workers.  I was 

18   ready.  But I -- and so I want to make sure that 

19   folks understand exactly what the program is and 

20   what we plan to accomplish with it.

21                The fund for excluded workers is a 

22   one-time fund in order to help people who have 

23   been residing in New York State before March 27th 

24   of 2020 and are able to demonstrate not only 

25   proof of identity, but proof of loss of income in 


                                                               2552

 1   various ways.  Many of these items of proof of 

 2   income will have to be decided by the 

 3   Commissioner from the Department of Labor.  

 4                And we are going to be offering two 

 5   different tiers, one which is only a third -- the 

 6   first tier, only a third of the maximum possible 

 7   award on unemployment insurance, and the second 

 8   tier being the same amount as stimulus payments 

 9   made by the federal government.

10                All of this money will be taxed at a 

11   rate of 5 percent, similar to unemployment.  And 

12   this not only recognizes excluded workers' labor, 

13   but also their contributions to our tax coffers.  

14   In 2019, undocumented New Yorkers paid 

15   $1.4 billion in state taxes, meaning income 

16   taxes, property taxes, and sales taxes.  And so 

17   if that's only one year, you can imagine just how 

18   much they've been able to give us.

19                I want to remind my friends from 

20   across the aisle that this bill, above anything 

21   else, is a real stimulus for our local economies.  

22   You know, Madison, Oneida and Onondaga are going 

23   to get a $16 million boost from this fund alone.  

24   Twenty-two million is going right here to the 

25   Capital Region.  Northern and Western New York 


                                                               2553

 1   should receive around 62 million.  The Hudson 

 2   Valley will get $437 million, approximately.  And 

 3   Long Island will receive approximately 

 4   $406 million from this.

 5                And I have to say I'm so proud to 

 6   have worked on this bill, especially with more 

 7   than 200 organizations across our state, 

 8   especially Make the Road -- Deb Axt, there, 

 9   Angeles Solis, and many others who have been 

10   organizing.  

11                Our -- we've also had 22 -- I'm 

12   sorry, we've also had excluded workers who have 

13   been on a hunger strike for 22 days in order to 

14   highlight the importance of this bill.  And I'm 

15   very proud of the sacrifice that they've made, 

16   because it's really helped us draw attention to 

17   the work that Assemblywoman Carmen De La Rosa and 

18   I have been trying to do in order to create this 

19   fund and circumvent any further economic 

20   catastrophe in our communities.

21                I also want to thank before I close, 

22   of course, our Majority Leader, our Supermajority 

23   Leader, Andrea Stewart-Cousins, who held the line 

24   for us and made sure that we delivered for these 

25   New Yorkers today.  I also want to thank 


                                                               2554

 1   Senator Gianaris and Senator Krueger for always 

 2   holding the floor down for us.

 3                And I especially want to thank my 

 4   mom.  It was my mom's birthday, technically 

 5   yesterday.  And you know, I was born when my 

 6   mother was undocumented in this country, and I'm 

 7   proud to say I'm a State Senator today due -- 

 8   because of the sacrifices that she has made for 

 9   me.

10                Above all, I'm here as a servant not 

11   because of charity, I'm here in order to 

12   promulgate solidarity in our policy and in our 

13   laws, especially our labor laws here in New York 

14   State.  It is our duty to provide for each other 

15   across the table, not top down, waiting, as if 

16   someone's existence is dependent on the whims of 

17   those who are most affluent.  That is not what 

18   New York is about.

19                And so I am -- while I am a little 

20   disillusioned that we did not raise the amount of 

21   revenue that I would have liked -- I believe we 

22   should have raised taxes on billionaires, of 

23   course, a lot more -- the idea behind this is 

24   actually to make it easier for working-class 

25   New Yorkers to be able to live in such an 


                                                               2555

 1   expensive state.  We all know folks who have had 

 2   to move to New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, 

 3   to buy a home.  We don't want that to be true any 

 4   longer.  We need to do better by putting more 

 5   money in the pockets of everyday New Yorkers and 

 6   improving the rights of workers in our state.

 7                Thank you, Madam President.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 9   Ramos to be recorded in the affirmative.

10                Senator Jordan to explain her vote.

11                SENATOR JORDAN:   Madam President, I 

12   rise to explain my vote specifically regarding 

13   Part EEE, the Excluded Workers Fund.  

14                Without question, this measure has 

15   quickly become one of the most contentious issues 

16   in this year's State Budget, and for good reason.  

17   The Majority's Excluded Workers Fund is the 

18   latest in a long line of examples of Albany's 

19   perpetual fleecing of law-abiding, hardworking 

20   taxpayers.  

21                In this scheme, the Majority wants 

22   to hand out $2.1 billion of taxpayers' money to 

23   illegal immigrants and others.  Who says crime 

24   doesn't pay?  In New York State, crime sure does 

25   pay, courtesy of law-abiding, hardworking 


                                                               2556

 1   taxpayers, a/k/a the silent majority -- the 

 2   decent, honorable men and women who will respect 

 3   and follow our laws, produce, pay their bills, 

 4   give back to their communities, play by the rules 

 5   and do the right thing.

 6                Our conference rightly sees these 

 7   people as the strong, proud backbone of New York 

 8   State, whereas the Majority apparently sees them 

 9   as a 24/7 ATM that will pay for this latest 

10   redistributionist scheme.  

11                We all know the particulars of this 

12   proposal.  To be eligible for a benefit payment 

13   from the Excluded Workers Fund, a person must 

14   have suffered a loss of work-related or household 

15   earnings due to, among other things, their 

16   becoming unemployed or continuing the status of 

17   being unemployed; partially unemployed; unable to 

18   work; or unavailable to work due to COVID-19 and 

19   during the state of emergency declared by 

20   Executive Order 202.

21                The benefit amount can be as much as 

22   $15,600.  To be eligible, an excluded worker must 

23   prove identity and establish residency.  The 

24   Commissioner of Labor is directed to establish a 

25   four-point system in which documents are assigned 


                                                               2557

 1   point values that add up to four.  And, oh 

 2   surprise, a valid New York State driver's 

 3   license -- which, thanks to the Majority and 

 4   Governor Cuomo, are now given out to illegal 

 5   immigrants and are worth four points.

 6                And applicants would not be required 

 7   to prove that they are in the United States 

 8   lawfully to be eligible for the excluded worker 

 9   benefit.  There's lowering the bar, and then 

10   there's burying it.  And this buries it.  

11                Furthermore, under this measure, 

12   records of excluded workers are not public 

13   records.  This measure would also require that 

14   any entity gaining access, by subpoena or 

15   warrant, to records of excluded workers certify 

16   that they will not be used for civil immigration 

17   purposes or disclosed to any agency that 

18   primarily enforces immigration law.

19                Illegal immigrants are just that:  

20   They're illegal.  Each day they're here, they're 

21   breaking the law, our nation's laws.  They're not 

22   supposed to be working, they're breaking the law, 

23   and their employers are also breaking the law by 

24   paying them under the table.

25                This measure sets up an unemployment 


                                                               2558

 1   fund for those working illegally and for those 

 2   employers that have never paid into the 

 3   unemployment insurance fund for them.  Think 

 4   about all we could do and all that we should do 

 5   with this $2.1 billion being spent on the fund.  

 6   Every year veterans' advocates have to beg and 

 7   plead for Dwyer program funding.  So many local 

 8   governments are not given the funding they so 

 9   desperately need.  

10                This $2.1 billion could have been 

11   spent on programs for veterans, measures to 

12   combat and control Lyme disease.  We could have 

13   used $2.1 billion to replenish the state's 

14   unemployment insurance fund, which I understand 

15   we've used 29 years' worth this past year.  Small 

16   businesses are finding that their rates are being 

17   raised by an average of 150 percent.  Our small 

18   businesses are hurting and need more help.  So 

19   many have closed or will chose their doors 

20   forever unless relief gets to them now.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

22   Jordan, could you please wrap up?  Thank you.

23                SENATOR JORDAN:   Okay.  Well, there 

24   are other ways to spend this money, and state 

25   government's addiction to spending has grown and 


                                                               2559

 1   gotten worse.

 2                The Majority's Excluded Workers Fund 

 3   is a carrot to all those coming into our country 

 4   thanks to our current broken border crisis.  

 5   New York, we're saying, is open for business.  Of 

 6   course we want to help the people that are 

 7   hurting, but New York State cannot be Robin Hood 

 8   to everyone.  Albany not only takes from the 

 9   successful but from the middle-class taxpayers 

10   and working poor who pay taxes.  And --

11                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

12   Jordan, how do you vote?

13                SENATOR JORDAN:   -- that's exactly 

14   what this Excluded Workers Fund does, and for 

15   these reasons I will be voting no on this bill.  

16                Thank you, Madam President.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

18   Jordan to be recorded in the negative.

19                Senator Addabbo to explain his vote.

20                SENATOR ADDABBO:   Thank you, 

21   Madam President.

22                First I want to thank my leader, 

23   Andrea Stewart-Cousins, Senator Gianaris, 

24   Senator Krueger for their work on this budget; 

25   our legal counsel, Shontell Smith; the Racing, 


                                                               2560

 1   Gaming and Wagering Committee legal counsel, 

 2   Chris Higgins; Paul McCarthy; my committee 

 3   director, Shanna Cassidy; the Finance team for 

 4   their efforts on this budget.  

 5                I also want to thank my colleagues, 

 6   all my colleagues across the aisle, especially my 

 7   ranker, Senator Jordan.  Again, I want to thank 

 8   them all.  Because, again, this is a challenging 

 9   budget certainly due to what we are experiencing 

10   these days with the COVID.  

11                But I also want to acknowledge the 

12   monumental step that we took, a positive step 

13   forward for our state in terms of recognizing -- 

14   again, groundbreaking efforts in terms of gaming 

15   in our state.  Whether we talk about mobile 

16   sports betting, whether we talk about the initial 

17   steps to recognize downstate licenses, or whether 

18   we talk about the tax relief that is needed for 

19   our gaming sites in our state that, again, 

20   support the jobs of so many of our New Yorkers.  

21                We are again recognizing this step 

22   being taken today with the vote of this budget 

23   and this part, and as we take positive steps to 

24   recognize the revenue sorely needed by this 

25   state, the educational funds that are going to 


                                                               2561

 1   help so many of our children and our students, 

 2   and of course the jobs that are so sorely needed 

 3   in this state at this point.  

 4                And I'd really like to highlight the 

 5   fact that we are taking, again, great strides in 

 6   addressing the addiction and problematic gaming 

 7   issues that plague some of our residents 

 8   throughout the state.

 9                But unfortunately, as this budget 

10   ends, to an extent our work begins with these 

11   gaming issues, as certain issues have been 

12   highlighted, and we all have to now work on 

13   addressing these issues.  But I look forward to 

14   working with all my colleagues in addressing 

15   every one of these issues for the benefit of the 

16   people of this state.  

17                So, Madam President, thank you so 

18   much, and I'll be voting aye on this budget.

19                Thank you.  

20                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

21   Addabbo to be recorded in the affirmative.

22                Senator Rivera to explain his vote.

23                SENATOR RIVERA:   Thank you, 

24   Madam President.

25                No one is illegal.  The word has 


                                                               2562

 1   been spewed on this floor for the last couple of 

 2   hours in the debate, and it will definitely be 

 3   spoken of again.  But it should be repeated:  No 

 4   one is illegal.  These are human beings, these 

 5   are people, these are workers.  They're excluded, 

 6   and they are essential.  Essential because at the 

 7   height of the pandemic, when many of us were 

 8   stuck at home receiving our food, not being able 

 9   to go out, who was delivering that food?  Who was 

10   picking the vegetables and fruits that we 

11   continued to eat during the pandemic?  Who got 

12   into those trains in my district, packed like 

13   sardines even during the height of the pandemic, 

14   because they could not afford to not go to work?  

15   These essential workers.  

16                How many of them got assistance?  

17   Madam President, not a single one during the last 

18   year.  We are making history today, and I feel 

19   proud of that.

20                Every single one of us benefits from 

21   what these individuals do every single day.  They 

22   are our neighbors.  They are our family members.  

23   They are our constituents.  And they deserve 

24   assistance, and that's what we're doing here 

25   today.


                                                               2563

 1                And I will also briefly, 

 2   Madam President, speak proudly about what we're 

 3   doing here today, the first steps that we are 

 4   taking to making this a more equitable state as 

 5   it relates to taxation.

 6                During, again, the height of the 

 7   pandemic when many of us were stricken, there 

 8   were folks who got wealthier every single day, 

 9   Madam President -- by millions and billions of 

10   dollars, people became wealthier while the poor 

11   and the working class amongst us suffered every 

12   single day.

13                Now we are moving towards a more 

14   equitable taxation system.  Certainly not as far 

15   as some of us "crazies" would like to make it, 

16   but certainly far enough -- $4.5 billion in new 

17   revenue that will go towards investing in our 

18   systems, investing in infrastructure, investing 

19   in education, investing in healthcare.  Those are 

20   the things that make us strong as a state.  Those 

21   are the things that give us a better population.  

22   Those are the things that will make us better.

23                Madam President, I proudly vote aye 

24   on this piece of legislation because we're 

25   moving -- making history and moving forward to 


                                                               2564

 1   make sure that this state is better.

 2                Thank you, Madam President.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 4   Rivera to be recorded in the affirmative.

 5                Senator Sepúlveda to explain his 

 6   vote.

 7                SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA:   Thank you, 

 8   Madam President, for allowing me to explain my 

 9   vote.

10                I rise today to explain how proud I 

11   am to be voting in favor of funding for excluded 

12   workers.  I represent one of the poorest 

13   communities in the State of New York.  And as a 

14   result, I represent some of the most marginalized 

15   people that we have in New York State.  That 

16   includes undocumented immigrants and people that 

17   are incarcerated or formerly incarcerated.

18                Undocumented immigrants have been, 

19   were, are in the front lines of this pandemonium 

20   but were largely excluded from federal relief and 

21   were unable to qualify for unemployment benefits 

22   due to their immigration status.  Excluding them 

23   from relief aid was morally wrong, especially 

24   since these workers have paid over $1.4 billion 

25   into the unemployment system over recent years.  


                                                               2565

 1   Many of them have children, families to feed, 

 2   rents to pay.  

 3                We have about 538,000 active 

 4   participants in the workforce in the undocumented 

 5   community.  Many of them work in the hospitality 

 6   and leisure industries that suffered anywhere 

 7   between 40 and 46 percent unemployment during 

 8   this pandemic.  Many of these undocumented 

 9   immigrants could no longer feed their families, 

10   could no longer pay their rent, did not have 

11   access to health insurance, could not provide for 

12   their children and their family.  And denying 

13   them relief was just plain morally wrong.

14                We should always remember the work 

15   that they've done.  I can tell you that in my 

16   district a woman, undocumented, from the Garifuna 

17   community was obligated to continue working and 

18   ultimately she contracted the virus and passed 

19   way.  And for over two weeks, her family could 

20   not locate her.  She was in a morgue, and it took 

21   some extraordinary work by my office and the City 

22   of New York to locate the body, give her her 

23   proper burial, and join her with her family from 

24   another country.

25                I hate to think that had she 


                                                               2566

 1   survived, that woman could not have benefited 

 2   from any relief package, either from the federal 

 3   or the state, until we passed this piece of 

 4   legislation.

 5                I'm thankful that we're helping the 

 6   undocumented community, but I'm very disappointed 

 7   we could not help those formerly incarcerated, 

 8   because they were not included in this agreement.  

 9   These individuals now are taxpaying citizens, and 

10   we should be doing everything possible to make 

11   sure that they have the tools, the skills and the 

12   finances so that they don't resort back to a life 

13   of crime once they continue living in our 

14   society.  

15                We have to remember that any relief 

16   that they receive, along with the undocumented 

17   community, will be pumped back into our economy, 

18   will help the State of New York, will help our 

19   families, will help us heal and pursue a better 

20   life once the pandemic is under control.

21                I'd like to remind everyone here, 

22   there isn't a single person in this building that 

23   didn't benefit from some of the labor of those 

24   that were incarcerated.  If you've washed your 

25   hands with our hand sanitizers anywhere in the 


                                                               2567

 1   state, these individuals are the ones that 

 2   bottled it.  They felt -- in my conversations 

 3   they related to me that they felt like they were 

 4   contributing to the recovery of New York State 

 5   and to keeping people heathy.  

 6                And so to deny them relief now is 

 7   also morally wrong.  So I will be working after 

 8   this to see if we can create any other kind of 

 9   economic package to help those who were formerly 

10   incarcerated because they are still part of our 

11   society, of the fabric of our society, and will 

12   continue to be taxpaying citizens once this is 

13   over.

14                Now I'm proud to be voting in the 

15   affirmative.  I want to thank our leader, the 

16   sponsor, my colleagues.  I want to thank 

17   Senator Krueger for the wonderful work she's done 

18   throughout these days arguing for these packages 

19   of bills for our budget.  I want to thank all my 

20   colleagues, all the staff, for the wonderful work 

21   they've done during this very difficult process.  

22                I proudly vote in the affirmative.

23                Thank you.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

25   Sepúlveda to be recorded in the affirmative.


                                                               2568

 1                Senator Brisport to explain his 

 2   vote.

 3                SENATOR BRISPORT:   Thank you, 

 4   Madam President.  

 5                I rise because in one of the 

 6   wealthiest places in the world, with more 

 7   billionaires than any other state in the nation, 

 8   my neighbors are dying from lack of access to 

 9   basic necessities.  This is the single most 

10   unequal state in the nation, and it is quite 

11   literally killing us.

12                This is the context in which we are 

13   facing a budget that raises income taxes on the 

14   ultra-rich by a wildly inadequate $2.75 billion 

15   this year.  Jeff Bezos earns that much every 

16   29 days.  

17                We have no better option than this 

18   on the table, so I want to sound an alarm about 

19   what it took to get even this abysmal amount 

20   included in the budget that we now have to pass.  

21   A massive coalition of community groups across 

22   the state has been speaking out for the past year 

23   about the need for an additional 50 billion in 

24   revenue.  Legislators, including myself, 

25   sponsored six budget bills that would secure 


                                                               2569

 1   100 percent of that needed revenue.  An 

 2   extraordinary 90 percent of New Yorkers agree 

 3   that it is better to tax the rich than cut public 

 4   services.  And we have the privilege of a Senate 

 5   Majority Leader who has listened to the people 

 6   and gone to battle for increased taxes on the 

 7   wealthiest New Yorkers.

 8                So let's be clear.  What we have all 

 9   just witnessed is a live demonstration of the 

10   undeniable fact that dramatic wealth inequality 

11   undermines democracy.  This is the best budget we 

12   were able to secure simply because it challenges 

13   the interests of the ultra-rich, whose wealth 

14   affords them undue influence over our government.  

15                I am voting yes with my 

16   determination to win budget justice renewed by 

17   one simple fact:  You cannot unring a bell.  The 

18   groundswell of New Yorkers who have taken up the 

19   cause of fighting for a just budget is growing 

20   fast.  The working-class families across our 

21   state who have seen how budget injustice harms 

22   them and their loved ones are not going away.  We 

23   are rising.  

24                Thank you.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 


                                                               2570

 1   you, Senator.

 2                Senator Brisport to be recorded in 

 3   the affirmative.

 4                Senator Salazar to explain her vote.

 5                SENATOR SALAZAR:   Thank you, 

 6   Madam President.  

 7                I want to associate my comments with 

 8   Senator Brisport, although I will be brief, since 

 9   it's 2:00 in the morning.  

10                You know, negotiating a $200 billion 

11   State Budget, especially with our state's current 

12   Executive, is a struggle against brutal 

13   austerity.  It's particularly a difficult task in 

14   this moment when our state is facing a crisis 

15   that is truly unlike anything we had ever seen 

16   until this year.  And it was the task of our 

17   leadership and our conference to not only protect 

18   our communities from what would have been 

19   devastating cuts, but to demand more.  To demand 

20   economic justice.  

21                As ever, this budget is a deeply 

22   flawed piece of legislation.  And that is largely 

23   a consequence of a process that is fundamentally 

24   flawed, a budget process that we have a 

25   responsibility to change.  But New Yorkers can't 


                                                               2571

 1   afford to wait for us to change our budget 

 2   process.  And they're counting on us to have the 

 3   courage to reject the opposition's efforts to 

 4   perpetuate inequality in our state.

 5                While the lives of those of us who 

 6   vote in this chamber will be virtually unchanged 

 7   tomorrow by the contents of this bill, hundreds 

 8   of thousands, perhaps millions of New Yorkers 

 9   will benefit tremendously from this budget.  This 

10   is why I base my vote for this big and truly ugly 

11   bill on the good and urgently needed relief that 

12   this budget brings for our people, rather than on 

13   what it fails to do.

14                I hope that this budget will mark a 

15   first step in our state demonstrating what it 

16   looks like to operate with a vision of a 

17   abundance instead of a vision of scarcity.  That 

18   New York will be a place where we not only fight 

19   for workers to have bread, but where we fight for 

20   roses too.  Because our people, the workers who 

21   have kept our state running and who have gone 

22   without any relief until now, deserve so much 

23   more.

24                Madam President, I vote aye.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 


                                                               2572

 1   Salazar to be recorded in the affirmative.

 2                Senator Jackson to explain his vote.

 3                SENATOR JACKSON:   Good morning, 

 4   Madam President and my colleagues.  It is 

 5   morning.  I rise regarding this particular bill 

 6   on revenue.  

 7                And let me just say education has 

 8   always been my priority, but the pandemic has 

 9   shaped my advocacy during budget negotiations, 

10   including housing, food insecurity, providing 

11   healthcare, and of course mental health.  We all 

12   witnessed that.  I will not accept a 

13   belt-tightening rhetoric pitting education 

14   against healthcare, excluded workers, small 

15   business or housing justice.

16                Today we enact budget justice by 

17   asking the state's wealthiest brothers and 

18   sisters to pay their fair share to support 

19   communities hardest hit by decades of 

20   underfunding and the COVID-19 pandemic.  But we 

21   still have much to do, failing to provide revenue 

22   that guarantees ambitious budgets for years to 

23   come.

24                We have shown a commitment to 

25   immigrants and the invisible workforce by 


                                                               2573

 1   establishing the Excluded Workers Fund, expanding 

 2   universal pre-K statewide, and reducing cost 

 3   burdens and addressing copays by 10 percent, 

 4   while also taking steps to eliminate the TAP gap.  

 5   We have created legislation like no other in the 

 6   nation, and we are at the forefront of a 

 7   future-defining budget.

 8                And I want to thank the Senate 

 9   Majority Leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins, 

10   Assemblymember Speaker Carl Heastie, and 

11   Governor Cuomo, who came together to ensure 

12   revenues go towards people-centered policies.  

13                I rise tonight to vote yes for 

14   downstate and upstate children getting the 

15   funding necessary for a sound, basic education; 

16   yes for our excluded workers; yes for 

17   environmental justice.  More victories await us 

18   all.  With the leadership of this conference, we 

19   will create a brighter future for all 

20   New Yorkers.

21                Thank you, Madam President.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

23   Jackson to be recorded in the affirmative.

24                Senator Liu to explain his vote.

25                SENATOR LIU:   Thank you, Madam 


                                                               2574

 1   President, for this opportunity to explain my 

 2   vote.  

 3                I support this bill.  It's a package 

 4   of tax and revenue measures that has long been 

 5   necessary.  We are certainly thankful to our 

 6   federal colleagues for providing assistance from 

 7   Washington to help us get out of this COVID 

 8   pandemic era and the extraordinary expenses and 

 9   the revenue shortfalls that the State of New York 

10   has experienced.

11                But even before the pandemic we 

12   already needed to raise revenues to support vital 

13   needs in this state, whether it be for healthcare 

14   or housing or transportation or, in my opinion 

15   most importantly, education.  Education funding 

16   has been lacking in this state for far too long, 

17   for nearly 15 years, when the state courts ruled 

18   that we were short-changing the children of this 

19   state.  Well, finally we are now putting our 

20   money where our mouths have been and fully 

21   funding the shortfall in school funding that 

22   should have been eradicated a long time ago.

23                And look at the taxes that we're 

24   raising in this bill -- taxes from people who 

25   make among the highest, not only in New York, but 


                                                               2575

 1   in the entire country.  People who make a million 

 2   dollars a year or more.  Corporations who do a 

 3   great business in the State of New York -- and we 

 4   want them to do so.  

 5                But the revenues that we're raising, 

 6   the $4.3 billion, that is almost exactly 

 7   identical to the education funding shortfall that 

 8   we needed to cover.  We need to raise these taxes 

 9   so that we can stop short-changing the 

10   schoolchildren of New York.  

11                I vote yes on this measure, and I 

12   thank you, Madam President.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

14   Liu to be recorded in the affirmative.

15                Announce the results.

16                THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

17   Calendar 654, those Senators voting in the 

18   negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Boyle, 

19   Brooks, Felder, Gallivan, Gaughran, Griffo, 

20   Helming, Jordan, Lanza, Mannion, Martucci, 

21   Mattera, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rath, 

22   Ritchie, Serino, Stec, Tedisco, Thomas and Weik.

23                Ayes, 38.  Nays, 25.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

25   is passed.


                                                               2576

 1                There is a substitution at the desk.  

 2                The Secretary will read.

 3                THE SECRETARY:   Senate Budget Bill 

 4   moves to discharge, from the Committee on 

 5   Finance, Assembly Bill Number 3006C and 

 6   substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 

 7   2506C, Third Reading Calendar 653.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

 9   substitution is so ordered.

10                The Secretary will read.

11                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

12   653, Assembly Print 3006C, Assembly Budget Bill, 

13   an act to amend the Education Law.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

15   Stec.

16                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

17   Madam President.  Would the sponsor please yield 

18   for a couple of questions.

19                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

20   Krueger, will you yield?

21                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Again, if he does 

22   not think me rude if I sit while I answer the 

23   questions.

24                SENATOR STEC:   Not at all, Senator, 

25   that's fine with me.


                                                               2577

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Absolutely.

 2                SENATOR STEC:   And I thank you for 

 3   your evening -- your work today.

 4                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.  

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 6   Krueger will yield.

 7                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you very much.  

 8                Senator Krueger, I'd just like to 

 9   ask a few questions on the ELFA bill regarding 

10   broadband and what we're doing there.  As I know 

11   you're aware, broadband is an issue all over the 

12   state, but it's driven geographically and by 

13   population density, and certainly in the 

14   North Country it's of great concern for us.  

15                So the first couple of questions I 

16   want to ask are centered on Part MM regarding the 

17   Public Service Commission's work to develop a 

18   map, similar to the bill that passed both houses 

19   very nearly unanimously, and the Governor 

20   pocket-vetoed this past winter.

21                My concerns are that I think his 

22   veto message or his veto explanation was that he 

23   wanted to do it in the budget and there was a 

24   $3 million-ish cost to it at the time.  My 

25   understanding is it's approximately -- what we're 


                                                               2578

 1   going to do now is about a million dollars, and 

 2   my read -- my concern, my read is that the 

 3   challenge we have in developing a good path 

 4   forward for getting broadband all the way is how 

 5   granular we can get the data in a map.  

 6                And I think -- and my fear is that 

 7   by doing it for what's going to look like less 

 8   money, and my read of the bill, is because it's 

 9   not going to be as granular as perhaps it needed.  

10                So Line 29 defines location, which 

11   means a geographic area smaller than a census 

12   tract.  Just -- are you aware of what the typical 

13   size of a census tract is or, you know, what the 

14   definition of a census tract can be?

15                SENATOR KRUEGER:   It's based on the 

16   population number, so it can be -- in Manhattan, 

17   in where I live, it could be a building.  And 

18   perhaps where you live it could be a significant 

19   section of land.  Right?  Because I think where 

20   you live is less densely populated than where I 

21   live.

22                SENATOR STEC:   Correct.  

23                Madam President, if the sponsor 

24   would continue to yield.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 


                                                               2579

 1   Krueger, do you yield?  

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 4   Krueger yields.

 5                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you.

 6                And in the budget bill language it 

 7   talks about looking at things smaller than a 

 8   census tract.  It doesn't define are we going 

 9   neighborhood by neighborhood, street to street?  

10   I mean, smaller than a census tract could still, 

11   in my part of the state, be a large -- well, you 

12   know, 4,000 people, that's almost Hamilton 

13   County.  Which I don't represent, but -- you 

14   know, I mean if something as large as a county is 

15   about the size of a census tract.  

16                The lines 35 through 37 state that 

17   "The commission shall study the availability, 

18   reliability and cost of high-speed internet and 

19   broadband services in New York State."  And "The 

20   commission shall, to the extent practicable" -- 

21   so my question is, what does "extent practicable" 

22   mean, and who determines what is practicable?  

23                You know, I mean, at what point does 

24   somebody say, that's as good as we're going to 

25   do?  I mean, we've been doing that.  I don't 


                                                               2580

 1   think it's good enough.  

 2                So I'm concerned, and can you 

 3   explain, you know, how -- who gets to decide what 

 4   practicable is?  

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I would gather 

 6   the way it's written it would be the PSC that 

 7   would determine what is practicable.

 8                I will agree with you that we want 

 9   to make sure it's done correctly.  And I think we 

10   need to watch over to make sure it is done 

11   correctly.  

12                And this will maybe surprise you at 

13   2:00 in the morning, but my husband teaches GIS 

14   mapping -- he's a geographer.  So actually I'm 

15   very familiar with different mapping models, just 

16   because I watch him playing on the computer all 

17   the time.  And it's amazing how much more 

18   sophisticated the options are even in public 

19   software.  So you can use Google Earth, a free 

20   software system, to literally look at the 

21   4,000 people that might be in a geographic area 

22   the size of your county or the one building that 

23   might be 4,000 people in my district.

24                So there really are many, many 

25   options available to us here in New York and to 


                                                               2581

 1   the PSC for correct mapping at many different 

 2   levels, and there's lots of different new, free 

 3   mapping software systems that have been 

 4   developed.  And so I think that as long as we 

 5   stay on top of it and make sure we are making it 

 6   clear what kind of information we need, that the 

 7   PSC, in coordination with almost any academic 

 8   center that has geographic mapping or several, at 

 9   least in New York City, community organizations 

10   who have started that their own free geographic 

11   mapping options for people, that we should be 

12   able to get this done correctly.  Because guess 

13   what?  We all want to get it done correctly.  It 

14   doesn't help us not to get it done correctly.  So 

15   I'm quite optimistic.  

16                SENATOR STEC:   Madam President, if 

17   the sponsor would continue to yield.  

18                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

19   Krueger, will you yield?  

20                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator  

22   Krueger yields.

23                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

24   Madam President.  Through you.  

25                Appreciate your familiarity and your 


                                                               2582

 1   obvious interest in GIS mapping.

 2                The last question on this section -- 

 3   and then I want to go to the $15 dollar per month 

 4   broadband -- the specific language, you know, 

 5   this is different from what the previous bill 

 6   was.  This is different language.  And I'm just 

 7   curious, but of the two majorities and the 

 8   Governor, who -- which of the three asked for it 

 9   to be worded this way?

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Based on the 

11   recommendation of the Public Service Commission.

12                SENATOR STEC:   Madam President, if 

13   the sponsor would yield and let me pivot to the 

14   other questions on broadband.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

16   Krueger, will you yield? 

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

19   Krueger yields.

20                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, Madam 

21   President.  

22                And again, Senator Krueger, I 

23   appreciate your time and the hour and your long 

24   day today.

25                I've got several small providers in 


                                                               2583

 1   the North Country -- and I'm sure this is true 

 2   throughout the state -- that are very concerned 

 3   with the mandate of we are going to tell you what 

 4   the bar is, and regardless of what your cost to 

 5   provide the service is, you will provide it for 

 6   this population at this price.  Very uneconomic, 

 7   you know, as far as supply and demand.  It's 

 8   certainly a different model for private business.

 9                How many low-income New Yorkers do 

10   we expect will qualify under this bill for the no 

11   more than $15 a month -- I mean, there's a list 

12   of if you're on SNAP or if you're free or 

13   reduced-lunch, but do we have an idea how many 

14   New Yorkers would be eligible for this $15 a 

15   month broadband cost?  

16                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm sorry, we 

17   don't.  We have a list of who could be eligible.  

18   And there's always a catch between who is 

19   eligible and then who actually applies to get 

20   something, and it's usually a much smaller number 

21   who apply than the total number who on paper 

22   would be eligible.

23                SENATOR STEC:   Madam President, if 

24   the sponsor would continue to yield.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 


                                                               2584

 1   Krueger, will you yield?

 2                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, of course.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 4   Krueger will yield.

 5                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, Madam 

 6   President.  Through --  

 7                SENATOR KRUEGER:   I just want to 

 8   clarify.

 9                SENATOR STEC:   Yup.

10                SENATOR KRUEGER:   There's also an 

11   exception {reading}:  Shall not apply to any 

12   broadband service provider providing service to 

13   no more than 20,000 households, if the PSC 

14   determines it would result in unreasonable or 

15   unsustainable financial impact.  

16                So when you talk about small 

17   providers in your district, I don't think if that 

18   means less than 20,000 households.  But it sounds 

19   like if it did, they wouldn't have to worry about 

20   this.

21                SENATOR STEC:   It is -- actually, 

22   it's my fourth question, but I'll jump to that 

23   one now, because you anticipated.

24                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Okay, fine.

25                SENATOR STEC:   So --


                                                               2585

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 2   Krueger, will you yield?  

 3                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

 4                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 5   Krueger yields.

 6                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

 7   Madam President.  

 8                So how will the PSC determine what 

 9   is an unreasonable or unsustainable financial -- 

10   I mean, that's not defined in the bill.  The PSC 

11   is going to decide what each individual provider 

12   can sustain?  I mean, they're an expert on 

13   everyone's balance sheet and -- or is there a 

14   process for the company to object if the PSC says 

15   no, this isn't unreasonable for you, is there a 

16   process for them to object?  

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Apparently they 

18   will provide an application process.  And I'm 

19   going to guess there will be some kind of an 

20   appeal system within that process if you disagree 

21   with PSC.  

22                You know, I'm not PSC, but I don't 

23   want to decrease the number of providers in 

24   New York State.  I'm actually looking to see more 

25   providers out there cover larger geographic areas 


                                                               2586

 1   and cover more people.  So I don't think it's in 

 2   PSC's best interests to want to actually see 

 3   providers fail to be able to remain in business.

 4                And I think that that would heavily 

 5   factor into their determination of whether they 

 6   need to make exceptions for you as long as 

 7   they're getting coverage for everyone, 

 8   ultimately.  Because that's our goal, to make 

 9   sure that every New Yorker has coverage through 

10   broadband, that it's fast enough and affordable 

11   enough for people to use.

12                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

13   Madam President.  If the sponsor would continue 

14   to yield.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

16   Krueger, will you yield?  

17                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

19   Krueger yields.

20                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

21   Madam President.  Through you.

22                So what if a company provides a 

23   service to more than 20,000 households but 

24   operates on a margin where $15 a month just 

25   financially isn't going to make it, and it will 


                                                               2587

 1   put them out of business?  Then what happens?  

 2   And what happens to those that are being provided 

 3   by that company if they're the only company in 

 4   the area that's providing that service?  

 5                SENATOR KRUEGER:   So at this point 

 6   PSC believes that the larger companies can 

 7   definitely afford to do this at the price set.  I 

 8   suppose if it wasn't working, they would come 

 9   back to either us or through their own internal 

10   process be able to determine a different formula.  

11                Because again, we know why we want 

12   to do this.  We want to have everyone in New York 

13   be able to have access to broadband that is both 

14   fast enough and cheap enough to afford.

15                That's worked better in some places 

16   than others.  And surprisingly, not necessarily 

17   in upstate New York where it's very rural being 

18   the hardest.  In New York City, we have enormous 

19   problems in some of the poorest communities; in 

20   some of our public housing communities, for 

21   example.

22                But it's also been true that this 

23   model is not so different than the lifeline phone 

24   service that phone companies have been offering 

25   to low-income New Yorkers for decades and 


                                                               2588

 1   decades.  And I remember early on the phone 

 2   company saying, We can't afford to do this, and 

 3   then lo and behold, we discovered actually they 

 4   really could.  

 5                Because once you have your system in 

 6   place, the marginal cost to you as a company for 

 7   additional clients is not particularly large.  

 8   And actually, the greater their -- their -- the 

 9   greater their market share, the better it is for 

10   their company's future.  So it can actually be a 

11   win/win for them if this actually allows them to 

12   expand services, because they are trying to serve 

13   lower-income communities where, if people can't 

14   buy the service for $15 a month, they're not 

15   going to buy the service at all.

16                So maybe it sounds a little 

17   counterintuitive, but actually having the 

18   lower-income option may actually be able to 

19   assure them of faster expansion of the business 

20   that they are trying to grow.

21                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

22   Madam President.  If the sponsor would continue 

23   to yield, please.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

25   Krueger, will you yield?  


                                                               2589

 1                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 3   Krueger yields.

 4                SENATOR STEC:   Thanks, 

 5   Madam President.  Through you.

 6                Who determined that 60 days would be 

 7   enough time from the enactment for companies to 

 8   prepare to change their financial modeling to 

 9   provide this service to low-income customers?  

10                And which providers were consulted 

11   in the development of this plan?  Because I'm not 

12   aware of any in my large area of the northern 

13   part of our state that were.

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   Three points.  

15                One, apparently it was the larger 

16   providers who were consulted.  

17                But a lot of the providers already 

18   offer a lower-cost option, so this isn't really 

19   new to them.  And we have experience based on the 

20   fact that they are already doing this business.

21                And of course because of COVID and 

22   children having to home-school and so many of us 

23   literally surviving in the world because we had 

24   access to the internet, there was a desire to try 

25   to move this into reality as quickly as possible.


                                                               2590

 1                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

 2   Madam President.  On the bill.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 4   Stec on the bill.

 5                SENATOR STEC:   Thank you.

 6                I appreciate Senator Krueger's time 

 7   and her staff's time on this.  This is a very 

 8   important issue in the northern part of our 

 9   state, and I appreciate your appreciation of 

10   that.

11                These two sections next to each 

12   other, MM and NN, perfect.  Because I think it 

13   highlights the challenge that I see, is that 

14   we've pivoted from access to affordability.  And 

15   we still have an access problem in the 

16   North Country.  We have an access problem.  

17                And while I'm not surprised that it 

18   was very easy and convenient and valuable for the 

19   state to talk to the bigger providers, the bigger 

20   providers are not operating in the -- they've 

21   taken the low-hanging fruit where the money is 

22   easy, the economies of scale are there.  They 

23   have opted not to chase the business in the 

24   North Country.  

25                Now, they've created a niche for 


                                                               2591

 1   smaller companies to do that, but their model is 

 2   different.  And I'm sure that the small providers 

 3   that operate in my area resent that the big guys 

 4   that passed over this are calling the shots as to 

 5   how to define, you know, the future of their own 

 6   businesses.

 7                Now, that's a business concern I 

 8   have.  But my broader concern is the individual 

 9   families, the school kids that need it, the 

10   people that want to telecommute.  The economy is 

11   evolving and pivoting, and we're going to need 

12   more of this.  And there's an opportunity to my 

13   part of the state -- and frankly, to everyone, 

14   because there's a lot of people from your part of 

15   the state that would love to spend more time 

16   telecommuting from the North Country.

17                So I want to focus on this, but if 

18   we keep making it harder for these small 

19   providers to make a living -- again, this is the 

20   hard-to-serve areas that the big companies have 

21   passed over.  They're not interested in it.  And 

22   so the margins are smaller, but there's still 

23   money -- there was money to be made, and there 

24   are people that are making a go of it.

25                But now we are changing their 


                                                               2592

 1   economic model.  On top of that, and as an aside, 

 2   we've got the fiber tax on state roads -- that we 

 3   are discouraging, with this bill and other things 

 4   like the fiber tax I just mentioned, any 

 5   investment and expansion in the North Country.  

 6                And we are not at 98 or 99 percent 

 7   in the North Country.  In a state of 19.5 million 

 8   people, maybe we're at 99 percent, but that's 

 9   because your part of the state is pulling that 

10   number up.  My part of the state is pulling that 

11   number down.  We are not at 99 percent.  And so 

12   we are in fear of getting left behind, which is 

13   why the bill that was pocket-vetoed was so 

14   frustrating to us.

15                So these two parts of this bill do 

16   not do it for me or where I represent, and this 

17   is a very important issue, broadband is a very 

18   important issue.  I will be voting against this 

19   bill largely because of what we did on broadband.  

20                But I appreciate your interest, and 

21   I'd be looking forward to continuing to work on 

22   this and take you up on your offer, Senator.  

23                Thank you.  Thank you, Madam 

24   President.  

25                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 


                                                               2593

 1   you, Senator Stec.  

 2                Senator Martucci.

 3                SENATOR MARTUCCI:   Thank you, 

 4   Madam President.  Will the sponsor yield for a 

 5   question?  

 6                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

 7   I believe Senator Martucci is going to be asking 

 8   about the rent relief program, if I'm --

 9                SENATOR MARTUCCI:   That's correct.

10                SENATOR GIANARIS:   So Senator 

11   Kavanagh, who unfortunately just stepped out for 

12   a moment, will be in to answer those questions.

13                SENATOR MARTUCCI:   Yes.

14                SENATOR KRUEGER:   If you have 

15   another question to ask me, go right ahead.

16                SENATOR MARTUCCI:   I'm sorry, 

17   Senator, I do not.  

18                (Laughter.)

19                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

20   Kavanagh, will you yield?

21                SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Now that I'm 

22   here, I will, Madam President.

23                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

24   Kavanagh yields.

25                SENATOR MARTUCCI:   Good morning, 


                                                               2594

 1   Senator.

 2                SENATOR KAVANAGH:   How are you?  

 3                SENATOR MARTUCCI:   I'm doing well, 

 4   thank you.

 5                So this morning I just have a couple 

 6   of questions on the COVID-19 Emergency Rental 

 7   Assistance Program.  

 8                My first question for you, 

 9   Senator -- through you, Madam President -- how 

10   much federal funding is expected to be directed 

11   to this program?

12                SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

13   Madam President, there's $2.35 billion of federal 

14   money that is available.  And there's an 

15   additional -- that's federal money.  And there's 

16   an additional $100 million of state money that's 

17   being made available for this purpose for people 

18   who may not be eligible for this program.

19                SENATOR MARTUCCI:   Madam President, 

20   will the sponsor continue to yield.

21                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

22   Kavanagh, will you yield?  

23                SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

25   Kavanagh yields.


                                                               2595

 1                SENATOR MARTUCCI:   How long does 

 2   the sponsor expect this program to operate?  And 

 3   what happens if the funds run out?

 4                SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

 5   Madam President.  You know, it's hard to say for 

 6   sure.  I mean, we are -- there's some uncertainty 

 7   as to exactly how many households there might be 

 8   out there that have rent arrears, and of course 

 9   how long it will take to process.  

10                But the bill requires that the 

11   Office of Temporary -- sorry, the OTDA create -- 

12   get the program up and running as soon as 

13   possible.  And we would hope that they're 

14   processing applications as quickly as possible.  

15                By some estimates there might be as 

16   many as 800,000 to 1.2 million households in the 

17   state who are behind on rent.  So obviously it 

18   will take some time to process those.

19                And in terms of the money running 

20   out, two things.  First of all, this is a very 

21   substantial money even relative to the very 

22   substantial arrears that have built up.  By one 

23   estimate, the total arrears in the state through 

24   the end of January ranged from 1.4 to 

25   $2.2 billion.  So this money is slightly higher 


                                                               2596

 1   than the upper range of that.  

 2                But in addition, the federal 

 3   legislation that allocated that $2.35 billion has 

 4   a provision that says if a state has spent more 

 5   than 50 percent of its money by a certain date, 

 6   and if other states have not done so, that there 

 7   maybe additional money reallocated from other 

 8   states to the states that have demonstrated their 

 9   need by, you know, spending the money 

10   effectively.

11                So, you know, it's hard to know 

12   how -- like a lot of things with COVID, it's hard 

13   to know exactly how long it's going to take us to 

14   dig out of that.  But as soon as this money 

15   begins to flow, landlords will start seeing the 

16   resources they need to maintain their buildings; 

17   tenants will obviously be relieved of this 

18   enormous stress of having rent arrears built up 

19   over the past year.

20                SENATOR MARTUCCI:   Madam President, 

21   will the Senator continue to yield.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

23   Kavanagh, will you yield?

24                SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Yes, Madam 

25   President.  


                                                               2597

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 2   Kavanagh yields.

 3                SENATOR MARTUCCI:   So, Senator, I 

 4   would certainly -- through you, Madam 

 5   President -- certainly agree, and my colleagues 

 6   and I are very supportive of this program.  

 7                But do you believe that it will be 

 8   possible to have 65 percent of this money out 

 9   within the deadline so the federal government 

10   does not take it back?  Because I think that 

11   there are certainly concerns -- I personally have 

12   concerns, because I think that this state has 

13   displayed a habitual inability to distribute 

14   these funds.  

15                As we know, millions of dollars came 

16   in in December from the federal government that 

17   still haven't been disbursed.  We just received a 

18   new set of money in March.  So my question to the 

19   sponsor is, do we believe that we can make those 

20   deadlines?  

21                SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

22   Madam President, it is correct that the initial 

23   money was allocated -- it was on December 28th, 

24   if I'm not mistaken, and a subsequent allocation 

25   came.  There was a decision -- you know, I -- I, 


                                                               2598

 1   Madam President, and many of my colleagues had 

 2   introduced a bill such that the state would be 

 3   ready to spend this money.  I think the initial 

 4   bill was introduced as early as March 30th of 

 5   last year, and was updated at various times as 

 6   the federal legislation that might provide money 

 7   was changed.  

 8                But there was a decision to run this 

 9   through the budget process.  And we've now had a, 

10   you know, lengthy and thorough three-way 

11   negotiation.  This bill, of course, like most of 

12   the things we're doing tonight, are the subject 

13   of a three-way agreement.  So we do expect that 

14   the Executive is now prepared to implement this 

15   program as written.  We know that OTDA has spent 

16   a lot of time already talking to contractors 

17   about how to create the infrastructure necessary 

18   to do this.

19                One precedent for this program, 

20   Madam President, is the prior program we did.  We 

21   did an Emergency Rental Assistance Program in the 

22   summer.  We did that with very little prior 

23   notice to anybody, including HCR, the agency that 

24   needed to do it.  We thought it was an emergency 

25   and it was important to get some money out there.  


                                                               2599

 1   But they had to create that program overnight 

 2   with very little administrative support.  

 3                This programs provides for 

 4   administrative support for the agencies that need 

 5   to run it, and also substantial money for 

 6   outreach to get the word out to both landlords 

 7   and tenants that the program is available.  So we 

 8   hope to get folks in the door.

 9                We're also dealing, in OTDA, with an 

10   agency that has a social service district -- you 

11   know, an agency in each county in the state, and 

12   obviously has a lot of experience processing 

13   really large volumes of checks to many, many 

14   people.  So we have some reason for confidence.  

15                But having said that, we're going to 

16   be paying very close attention to the 

17   administration of this program.

18                SENATOR MARTUCCI:   Madam President, 

19   will the Senator continue to yield?

20                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

21   Kavanagh, will you yield?

22                SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Happily, 

23   Madam President.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

25   Kavanagh yields.


                                                               2600

 1                SENATOR MARTUCCI:   Thank you.  

 2                So in the past when we've discussed 

 3   this program, there were many times strings 

 4   attached, particularly to the rental relief.  

 5   Does this budget have any such conditions 

 6   included in it, such as requiring the tenant to 

 7   stay in the apartment for a period of time, or 

 8   rent increase freezes or anything like that?  

 9                SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Through you, 

10   Madam President, there's not a requirement on the 

11   tenant, there's a requirement -- so the tenant 

12   applies for the program, they have to meet 

13   certain eligibility criteria.  The landlord in 

14   most cases will have to participate in that 

15   process in order to receive the money.  

16                The program is designed such that 

17   tenants and landlords can actively participate in 

18   that.  Once an application is submitted, the 

19   landlord will have an ability to track that 

20   application until there's a determination made 

21   about the eligibility.

22                I think what my colleague is 

23   referring to is the obligations that ensue when 

24   the landlord accepts the money from this program.  

25   And what those obligations are is if the landlord 


                                                               2601

 1   accepts money for arrears under this program, 

 2   they must agree, first of all, not to charge the 

 3   state late fees on that money for this period,  

 4   and also to keep the rent steady at the amount 

 5   that it was as of the date of the application, 

 6   and to forego the opportunity to evict the tenant 

 7   for a holdover or for not having a lease for the 

 8   ensuing year.

 9                Now, that of course does not apply 

10   to prospective nonpayment cases.  If the tenant, 

11   you know, fails to pay the rent in the future, 

12   the landlord would have their normal rights and 

13   remedies under that circumstance.  And also -- 

14   we've gotten this question a lot -- it does not 

15   apply, it's not intended to apply to a situation 

16   where the tenant is causing danger to others, 

17   they're unreasonably violating their lease and 

18   causing harm or fear or destruction.  Even with 

19   our current eviction moratorium, those cases have 

20   been allowed to proceed, and they will be allowed 

21   to proceed under these restrictions as well.

22                SENATOR MARTUCCI:   Thank you, 

23   Madam President.  On the bill.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

25   Martucci on the bill.


                                                               2602

 1                SENATOR MARTUCCI:   So I certainly 

 2   want to start by thanking my colleague 

 3   Senator Kavanagh.  Thank you so much for your 

 4   very comprehensive answers at this very early 

 5   hour in the morning.

 6                I guess the only thing that I really 

 7   want to underscore is just the importance of 

 8   getting this rent relief directly in the hands of 

 9   our tenants and our landlords as fast as 

10   possible.  There has been tremendous delay.  In 

11   fact, I remember in our very first committee 

12   meeting, you as the chairman brought forward a 

13   bill of yours that did exactly this.  So 

14   certainly I know that I'm hearing from landlords 

15   and tenants alike in my district that it's time 

16   that we address this, and I certainly hope that 

17   this budget will do exactly that and do it very 

18   fast.

19                The second thing I want to say is 

20   that, you know, I stand here proudly in support 

21   of this budget bill.  First, this bill does some 

22   important things, like we just talked about, with 

23   respect to relief for our landlords and for our 

24   tenants.  

25                But it also does an important thing 


                                                               2603

 1   in my district which keeps the Goshen Secure 

 2   Center open.  I've been working to stop this 

 3   closure since the day it was announced, and I was 

 4   proud to work with my colleagues in this chamber, 

 5   Senator Skoufis and Senator Mannion, to do 

 6   exactly that and get this legislation over the 

 7   line.

 8                Saving Goshen was not just about 

 9   saving jobs, but it was about doing the right 

10   thing for the people in my district and it was 

11   about doing the right thing for the people of 

12   New York.  Keeping Goshen Secure open is a big 

13   win for all of us.  

14                The second reason I'm voting for 

15   this bill is because Goshen Secure has some great 

16   programming.  During this journey I got to meet a 

17   young man whose life was changed because of the 

18   great work that happens at Goshen Secure Center.

19                Second, this bill provides some 

20   important labor protections on renewable energy 

21   projects.  This is going to protect hardworking 

22   union members in my district.  And third and 

23   finally, as many of my colleagues pointed out 

24   earlier in the debate on this bill, it takes 

25   important steps to finally address a broadband 


                                                               2604

 1   problem that exists in our state.  Because 

 2   broadband is no longer a luxury, it's in fact a 

 3   necessity.  

 4                For those reasons, I proudly vote 

 5   aye.  Thank you, Madam President.

 6                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

 7   you, Senator.

 8                Are there any other Senators wishing 

 9   to be heard?  

10                Seeing and hearing none, the debate 

11   is closed.  The Secretary will ring the bell.

12                Read the last section.

13                THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

14   act shall take effect immediately.

15                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

16   roll.

17                (The Secretary called the roll.)

18                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

19   Kavanagh to explain his vote.

20                SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Thank you, 

21   Madam President.  And I thank my colleagues 

22   across the aisle for the discussion of this bill 

23   and the many issues we've discussed today.

24                I rise to note that, you know, this 

25   bill comes after a year where so many phenomena 


                                                               2605

 1   have happened that we've lost sort of superlative 

 2   adjectives for them.  This has been an incredibly 

 3   challenging year for so many of us, and in 

 4   housing and in homelessness is really no 

 5   exception.  You know, we already had an 

 6   affordable housing crisis.  We had a housing 

 7   quality crisis in many parts of the state even 

 8   before COVID.  But COVID has in many ways 

 9   stretched our systems to their limits.  It's 

10   caused enormous hardship for tenants and, it 

11   should be acknowledged, for the many landlords 

12   who have tried to do the right thing during this 

13   very difficult circumstance.  

14                This is a bill that really will -- 

15   hopefully very rapidly, as my colleague across 

16   the aisle noted is an important part of this, but 

17   hopefully very rapidly this will begin to undo 

18   that damage, to make sure that -- we've already 

19   taken many steps to make sure people stay in 

20   their homes, both homeowners and renters, but 

21   this is a program that will make sure that people 

22   don't suffer long-term economic damage from this 

23   with what is, for most people, their biggest 

24   expense, their housing costs.

25                I just want to end by thanking the 


                                                               2606

 1   many people that were involved in this bill.  

 2   It's been a long road to this point.  But Andra 

 3   Stanley, from my own staff, who did the initial 

 4   drafts of this, and Adriele Douglas and 

 5   Nic Rangel and Chris Friend and Allison Bradley 

 6   and Lonnie Threatte and Tamara Frazier and David 

 7   Friedfel and Shontell Smith.  Because this cut 

 8   across a couple of committees, there are a lot of 

 9   folks involved; I hope I didn't leave anybody 

10   out.  

11                And of course our leader, Andrea 

12   Stewart-Cousins, and you, Madam President, 

13   Senator Roxanne Persaud, who was the co-prime 

14   sponsor of the bill as chair of our Social 

15   Services Committee, and 35 cosponsors of this 

16   bill.  

17                And of course, you know, our 

18   Assemblymember, Steve Cymbrowitz, who is the 

19   Assembly sponsor, and the Executive Chamber and 

20   OTDA, who have been negotiating and are going to 

21   have to implement this.

22                We got a lot of input from the City 

23   of New York, from tenant organizations like Legal 

24   Aid Society, Make the Road, Citizen Action, 

25   Enterprise, the Housing Conference, NYSAFAH and 


                                                               2607

 1   ANHD.  And yes, we also had a lot of constructive 

 2   input on this one from landlord organizations, 

 3   including REBNY and Community Housing Improvement 

 4   Program, or CHIP, and SPONY, the Small Property 

 5   Owners of New York, and many others.  

 6                This is again an area where a lot of 

 7   people have recognized that tenants and landlords 

 8   do have common cause, and we're going to try to 

 9   address the needs of all of them with this very 

10   important program.  

11                And with that, Madam President, I 

12   vote aye.

13                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

14   Kavanagh to be recorded in the affirmative.

15                Senator Myrie to explain his vote.

16                SENATOR MYRIE:   Thank you, 

17   Madam President.  And good morning.  It is good 

18   to be back in the chamber.  

19                I'd be remiss if I didn't start off 

20   with thanking our Majority Leader, Andrea 

21   Stewart-Cousins, Shontell Smith, Jessica Persaud, 

22   Donavan Borington, a number of our anti-gun 

23   violence organizations, and our champion in the 

24   other house, Assemblymember Diana Richardson, for 

25   helping to make this bill become a reality today.  


                                                               2608

 1                In 2019, on the last day of this 

 2   legislative session, when I was in this chamber, 

 3   I got a call from the Mayor's Office, and they 

 4   told me that an 11-year-old in my district was 

 5   shot with a stray bullet -- pierced his chest, 

 6   broke his spine.  

 7                And that young king, Jayden Grant, 

 8   thankfully survived.  But his life was forever 

 9   changed that day; his family, our community, 

10   forever traumatized by that incident of gun 

11   violence.  

12                And I wish, Madam President, that I 

13   could stand before you today and say that that's 

14   an isolated incident.  But the unfortunate 

15   reality is that this happens every day in our 

16   communities.  Shootings are up in New York City 

17   257 percent.  And I wish I could say it's just a 

18   New York City problem.  But the top five counties 

19   in the state, three of them -- Erie, Onondaga and 

20   Monroe -- are outside of New York City.  

21                And of course I wish I could say 

22   this is just a New York problem, but this is a 

23   scourge that is happening across the nation.  One 

24   hundred nine Americans die daily from gun 

25   violence.  Seventy-five percent of homicides 


                                                               2609

 1   across this nation, gun violence.  The leading 

 2   cause of death for children and teenagers in this 

 3   country, gun violence.  Half of the Black 

 4   teenagers that died in 2019 died from gun 

 5   violence.  

 6                And just like many of society's 

 7   ills, gun violence disproportionately affects 

 8   Black people.  If you are a Black man in this 

 9   country, you are eight times more likely to die 

10   from gun homicide than any other category.  And 

11   although young Black men only constitute 

12   2 percent of our population, they make up 

13   37 percent of gun homicides.  

14                And I know what you're thinking, 

15   Madam President.  Not here in New York, we have 

16   some of the strongest gun safety laws in the 

17   nation.  But Black people in this great state are 

18   15 times more likely to die from the bullet of a 

19   gun than their white counterparts.  

20                And if that human cost doesn't move 

21   you, gun violence costs this state $3 billion a 

22   year.  

23                So today, Madam President, we say 

24   enough is enough.  We will become the first state 

25   in the nation to declare gun violence what it is:  


                                                               2610

 1   A public health crisis that demands a 

 2   crisis-level response.  The Community Violence 

 3   Intervention Act will provide resources for 

 4   community and hospital-based programs that can 

 5   show the country that with evidence-based and 

 6   non-police solutions, we can collectively fight 

 7   for our public safety.

 8                And while gun violence has robbed 

 9   thousands of years off of the lives of 

10   New Yorkers, this act today is a deposit in the 

11   future of New Yorkers like Jayden Grant, the 

12   future of New Yorkers like the 9-year-old 

13   daughter of Brownsville who just last night 

14   watched her father kill her entire family and 

15   turn the gun on himself.  We are making a deposit 

16   today for that daughter of Brownsville.  

17                From Brownsville to Buffalo, this is 

18   a deposit for peace.  It is a deposit for our 

19   grieving mothers, a deposit for our hurting 

20   families.  A deposit for a New York that will one 

21   day, Madam President, be free from gun violence.

22                So for all of those reasons, I 

23   proudly vote in the affirmative.

24                Thank you.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 


                                                               2611

 1   Myrie to be recorded in the affirmative.

 2                Senator Mannion to explain his vote.

 3                SENATOR MANNION:   Thank you, 

 4   Madam President.  

 5                I was a high school educator for 

 6   almost 30 years, and I was a teacher union 

 7   president for nearly a decade.  I'm the parent of 

 8   three kids who attended public schools in Central 

 9   New York.  And today I'm a State Senator who has 

10   delivered on his promise to help fix a broken 

11   system of funding schools.

12                Until this budget, Foundation Aid 

13   was inequitable and underfunded.  While a lot of 

14   work remains to be done, we are now beginning a 

15   three-year phase-in of fully funding the 

16   Foundation Aid formula.  After many years, the 

17   state will finally hold up its end of the deal.  

18                Who are the winners?  That's our 

19   students and our teachers, our communities.  

20                I also want to highlight the 

21   expansion of universal pre-K.  The data shows 

22   that prekindergarten is vital to early childhood 

23   learning.  It can put kids on the right path for 

24   the rest of their lives, but it was not 

25   accessible in many school districts.  


                                                               2612

 1                Because of the hard work of many of 

 2   my colleagues across government, that changes 

 3   today.  Families in more than 200 school 

 4   districts across New York will have the benefit 

 5   of UPK, and I hope that expands further next 

 6   year.

 7                Madam President, our education plan 

 8   will make a college degree more attainable.  We 

 9   are closing the so-called TAP gap, the difference 

10   between public education tuition and TAP awards.  

11   We are also raising the maximum TAP award by over 

12   $500.  This will strengthen SUNY and CUNY and 

13   will open the doors to a college education for 

14   many.  In the State of New York, you can pursue 

15   any path, any career, with the vibrant and vast 

16   programs that exist within these institutions.

17                If ever New York State was making a 

18   down payment on its future, it is with smart and 

19   impactful educational practices and policies like 

20   Foundation Aid reform, UPK, and closing the TAP 

21   gap.

22                As I said, I've been a teacher for 

23   30 years -- almost 30 years -- and my wife for 

24   about the same period of time.  I have watched 

25   her engage her students, inspire her students.  


                                                               2613

 1   But beyond being able to engage and inspire, she 

 2   is a masterful tactician in how to get to the 

 3   root of how children learn to read, which is 

 4   essential in anyone's success.  

 5                I stand here today as an advocate 

 6   for public education, as a father who has seen 

 7   the good that occurs in it, and the spouse of a 

 8   person who changes the lives of children.  I 

 9   proudly vote in the affirmative.

10                Thank you, Madam President.

11                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

12   Mannion to be recorded in the affirmative.

13                Senator Mayer to explain her vote.

14                SENATOR MAYER:   Thank you, 

15   Madam President.

16                I rise today to proudly explain my 

17   vote for an education budget that is truly 

18   transformational.  

19                This budget reflects the Senate 

20   Majority's unwavering commitment to finally fund 

21   the state's obligation to public education, and 

22   also to ensure that our schools have the 

23   resources they need to help students recover from 

24   the incredibly disruptive impact of COVID on P-12 

25   education.  


                                                               2614

 1                First I want to thank our Majority 

 2   Leader, Senator Stewart-Cousins, for her 

 3   unwavering dedication to the principles of 

 4   educational equity that reflect our values.  This 

 5   historic bill could only happen because of her 

 6   personal commitment to see it through.  She feels 

 7   these issues with a sense of personal passion 

 8   that led to this paradigm change, and I am 

 9   forever grateful for that.  

10                In this budget we finally commit to 

11   funding the obligation laid out more than a 

12   decade -- people don't understand that, a decade 

13   ago, in a statutory formula designed to drive 

14   greater equity and educational opportunity for 

15   all children in New York.  Some of us thought 

16   this day would never come.  But through the work 

17   of advocates, parents, my terrific colleague 

18   Senator Robert Jackson, who has spent more than a 

19   decade leading this fight, our New York City 

20   Education chair Senator John Liu, exceptional 

21   teachers, administrators, school board 

22   superintendents and so many others, including our 

23   colleagues on the Board of Regents, we are 

24   finally getting this done.

25                But we make these major changes for 


                                                               2615

 1   a purpose, to ensure that every school provides 

 2   the quality education our kids need, regardless 

 3   of where they live, the wealth of their 

 4   neighborhood, or any other factor.  That is what 

 5   drives us and will continue to guide our ongoing 

 6   obligation to education.

 7                In addition, this budget comes to 

 8   grips with the impact of COVID on our schools and 

 9   our students.  This has been a year of 

10   educational turmoil that children, parents and 

11   teachers have faced with courage and resilience, 

12   but it will have lasting consequences.  By 

13   rightly allowing the federal COVID funds, which 

14   were intended to supplement the state's 

15   contribution to education, schools will now have 

16   the resources necessary for compensatory 

17   learning, mental and emotional growth, and other 

18   services to ensure our kids move ahead in the 

19   best shape possible.

20                These funds will also fund necessary 

21   emotional and support services for thousands of 

22   students who have lost loved ones of their own.

23                I'm exceptionally proud of our new 

24   initiative to expand pre-K ultimately to every 

25   child in New York State.  We begin to fully phase 


                                                               2616

 1   it in this year, and more than 200 districts will 

 2   bring early education opportunities to 

 3   4-year-olds for the first time.  This is a 

 4   path-breaking development that could ultimately 

 5   lead and will ultimately lead to full-day pre-K 

 6   for all 4-year-olds in the state -- another dream 

 7   we thought could never occur, but which will lead 

 8   to positive social and academic success for so 

 9   many of our children.

10                We also continued our fight for 

11   New York's special needs children, and I'm proud 

12   that schools serving special education students 

13   will be protected.  And I'm thrilled that our 

14   schools for the blind and deaf will receive 

15   additional funding, and our 4201 schools will 

16   receive $30 million in capital.  

17                It took a lot of fighting and a lot 

18   of noise and a lot of partners to make this 

19   happen, but we are proud of this effort to 

20   provide historic funding for our schools to 

21   support our students and affirm our commitment to 

22   educate all children regardless of where they 

23   reside.

24                We do this, again, for the purpose 

25   of ensuring equity and equal opportunity for 


                                                               2617

 1   every child, whether they live in Brooklyn, in my 

 2   community in Port Chester, in the North Country, 

 3   the Southern Tier, or any of the cities 

 4   throughout our state -- and certainly within the 

 5   City of New York.  

 6                But we have more to do.  Much more 

 7   needs to be done.  We have to press to ensure our 

 8   kids learn the full story of American history -- 

 9   the richness of our diversity, a greater 

10   commitment to civic participation and to the 

11   democratic process.  We will continue that fight 

12   after this bill passes tonight.  

13                But for now, I'm incredibly grateful 

14   to the exceptional staff that made this happen:  

15   Amanda Godkin, Mike Swanson, Lonnie Threatte, 

16   Monica Saladi, our committee director Georgia 

17   Asciutto, and certainly Dave Friedfel and 

18   Shontell Smith.  Without them all, this could 

19   never have happened.  

20                But for the children of New York, 

21   I'm exceptionally proud of this budget.  We are 

22   making this difference for them, and for that 

23   reason I vote in the affirmative.

24                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

25   Mayer to be recorded in the affirmative.


                                                               2618

 1                Senator Reichlin-Melnick to explain 

 2   his vote.

 3                SENATOR REICHLIN-MELNICK:   Thank 

 4   you, Madam President.  

 5                So I began my career as a public 

 6   school teacher, and I taught in an inner-city 

 7   school surrounded by richer suburban districts.  

 8   And it was clear then that the lack of funding to 

 9   schools in poorer areas had real consequences for 

10   the students that the schools were serving.

11                And so tonight as we are making a 

12   renewed commitment to actually deliver on 

13   educational equity to the students around 

14   New York State, I am proud to support this budget 

15   bill.  Because the Foundation Aid formula that is 

16   funding schools in New York has been broken for a 

17   while, and it has been underfunded for even 

18   longer -- basically, ever since it was created.  

19   And today, finally, this body and this 

20   Legislature are saying that we are going to 

21   support full phase-in of Foundation Aid for 

22   schools in New York State.  

23                This is going to make a tremendous 

24   difference in the lives of children from 

25   Long Island, through my district in the 


                                                               2619

 1   Hudson Valley, and all the way up to the 

 2   North Country and Western New York and everywhere 

 3   in between.  We're going to be funding schools at 

 4   60 percent of what they're owed this year, 

 5   80 percent the following year, and 100 percent 

 6   two years from now.  

 7                In my district alone, this year 

 8   we're seeing a $22 million increase in Foundation 

 9   Aid allocation.  This is money that will go for 

10   teachers, this is money that will go for new 

11   education technology.  We will be able to reduce 

12   class sizes.  We'll be able to support 

13   extracurriculars, to support counselors for 

14   students -- so many things that are vital to the 

15   educational success of our kids.

16                And so we need to pass this budget 

17   bill.  I am proud to be part of this 

18   Majority that is supporting this effort and 

19   funding our schools at the level that they 

20   deserve to be funded.  I am proud to be voting 

21   yes on this bill.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

23   Reichlin-Melnick to be recorded in the 

24   affirmative.

25                Senator Hinchey to explain her vote.


                                                               2620

 1                SENATOR HINCHEY:   Thank you, 

 2   Madam President.  

 3                There are many things to be 

 4   incredibly proud of in this budget, from finally 

 5   keeping our promise to fully fund Foundation Aid, 

 6   to investing in early childhood education by 

 7   expanding full-day pre-K -- giving our kids the 

 8   tools they need to be successful later in life 

 9   and helping our working families with the support 

10   they need for childcare -- to also solving the 

11   broadband crisis.  

12                To anyone living in upstate 

13   New York, you know that the Governor's claim of 

14   98 percent coverage is just inaccurate.  We 

15   struggle every day with reliable access to 

16   broadband that has become basically a necessity 

17   in life, as opposed to a luxury.  

18                This is something that we need to 

19   change, and the package in this bill is going to 

20   do that.  We need accurate household-level data 

21   to understand where the gaps are so that we can 

22   work collectively to close them.  

23                I'm proud to support this bill.  I'm 

24   proud to bring our constituents the broadband 

25   access that they need to be successful in life, 


                                                               2621

 1   and for that, I vote aye.

 2                Thank you.

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 4   Hinchey to be recorded in the affirmative.

 5                Senator Liu to explain his vote.

 6                SENATOR LIU:   Thank you, 

 7   Madam President.  

 8                I rise to say that I support this 

 9   bill wholeheartedly for many different reasons, 

10   but especially for the commitment that we're 

11   making to education here in New York.  We've all 

12   known that the Campaign for Fiscal Equity nearly 

13   15 years ago required the state to provide a 

14   sound, basic education for all kids, all 

15   schoolkids in New York.  And yet for so long the 

16   state has shortchanged these kids.  

17                Finally, we have put in place a firm 

18   three-year commitment to fully fund that 

19   Foundation Aid, with a historic $1.4 billion 

20   increase in school funding this year, another 

21   increase next year, and the final increase to 

22   fulfill the mandate in Year 3.

23                And not only are we making these 

24   promises, but we have also delivered the revenue 

25   to back up these promises so that indeed these 


                                                               2622

 1   schoolchildren will get the money they so 

 2   deserve.  They are our future, and we must invest 

 3   in them.

 4                Now, this money, as important as it 

 5   is, does not come without certain requirements.  

 6   And I'm very proud that our Legislature has put 

 7   these requirements onto the school districts that 

 8   will receive this funding by ensuring that they 

 9   will seek local input, that the communities and 

10   the stakeholders there will collaborate with the 

11   school districts to come up with a plan that will 

12   ensure student achievement, the eradication of 

13   the achievement gap, helping students with 

14   special needs.  Those are things -- those are the 

15   educational services that we are seeking to 

16   deliver and fulfill.

17                And beyond public school funding, 

18   we're also making a firm commitment to higher 

19   education in the form of an elimination of the 

20   TAP gap that has plagued our public universities 

21   in New York State and New York City for far too 

22   long.  This firm commitment to finally fund the 

23   TAP gap over the next three years will also 

24   signal a very strong commitment to public 

25   education here in the State of New York.


                                                               2623

 1                Madam President, I proudly vote aye.

 2                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 3   Liu to be recorded in the affirmative.

 4                Senator Jackson to explain his vote.

 5                SENATOR JACKSON:   Good morning, 

 6   Madam President and my colleagues.  I say good 

 7   morning because it's approximately 3:00 a.m.  

 8                And I stand here as a proud parent, 

 9   education advocate for three decades, and the 

10   lead plaintiff in the Campaign for Fiscal Equity 

11   lawsuit against New York State.  I walked from 

12   New York to Albany in 2003, 150 miles over eight 

13   days, and a second time in 2016, with the 

14   Alliance for Quality Education, for our 

15   children's education.  

16                In 1993, Madam President, as 

17   president of Community School Board 6, my 

18   youngest daughter Sumaya, in the first grade, and 

19   my middle child Asmahan, in the seventh grade at 

20   PS/IS 187, I launched the Campaign for Fiscal 

21   Equity.  After 13 years, we won.  And in 2007, 

22   the Foundation Aid formula was created to 

23   guarantee every child the opportunity to get at 

24   minimum a sound, basic education.  

25                And in 2019, along with AQE, I 


                                                               2624

 1   traveled from Rochester to Brentwood, 

 2   Long Island, from Schenectady, New York, to 

 3   Washington Heights, in my district.  All of us 

 4   saw the reality, everywhere -- underfunded 

 5   schools unable to provide the education 

 6   guaranteed by the New York State Constitution.  

 7                Governors have refused to fund the 

 8   formula while generations completed our education 

 9   system with promises unfulfilled.  Today marks a 

10   historic commitment in the landmark decision made 

11   more than a decade ago.  

12                I believe in the power of education 

13   uplifting communities out of poverty.  You may 

14   have heard me say it before:  It doesn't matter 

15   if you're rich or poor, Black, white, Latinx or 

16   Asian, red, green or blue, education is the key 

17   to uplift our children's futures.

18                Madam President, give me one more 

19   minute.  Let me just tell you some of the names 

20   of the plaintiffs in 1993.  Besides the Alliance 

21   for Quality Education and Class Size Matters, 

22   Michael Rebell, the attorney who handled the case 

23   in the law firm, pro bono, of Simpson Thacher & 

24   Bartlett.  Aminisha and Kuzaliawa Black.  

25   Innocencia Berges-Taveras, Bienvenido and Tania 


                                                               2625

 1   Taveras.  These are the children.  Joanne and 

 2   Erycka DeJesus.  Heather Lewis and her children 

 3   Alina, Shayna and Joshua.  Lillian, Sherron and 

 4   Courtney Paige.  Vernice Stevens.  Richard 

 5   Washington.  Maria and Jimmy Vega.  Dorothy and 

 6   Blake Young.  The Schott family -- I can't tell 

 7   you how much they meant for this lawsuit.  Norm 

 8   Fructher.  And my daughters Sumaya and Asmahan.  

 9   And of course Cynthia Nixon and other undeterred 

10   parent leaders and advocates.  

11                CFE was not an upstate versus 

12   downstate, urban versus suburban or rural issue.  

13   The case was about all New Yorkers and our 

14   obligation to millions of children that we are 

15   finally honoring.  

16                I vote yes, Madam President.  Thank 

17   you.

18                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

19   Jackson to be recorded in the affirmative.

20                Announce the results.

21                THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

22   Calendar 653, those Senators voting in the 

23   negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Gallivan, 

24   Helming, O'Mara, Ortt, Serino and Stec.

25                Ayes, 55.  Nays, 8.


                                                               2626

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

 2   is passed.

 3                Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

 4   reading of the controversial calendar.

 5                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Thank you, 

 6   Madam President.

 7                At this time we're going to go back 

 8   to Calendar 652, which we had previously laid 

 9   aside temporarily.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

11   Secretary will read.

12                THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

13   652, Senate Print 2500D, Senate Budget Bill, an 

14   act making appropriations for the support of 

15   government:  STATE OPERATIONS BUDGET.

16                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Is there a 

17   message of necessity at the desk?

18                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   There is 

19   a message of necessity at the desk.

20                SENATOR GIANARIS:   I move to accept 

21   the message of necessity.

22                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   All in 

23   favor of accepting the message of necessity 

24   signify by saying aye.

25                (Response of "Aye.")


                                                               2627

 1                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Opposed?  

 2                (No response.)

 3                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

 4   message is accepted, and the bill is before the 

 5   house.

 6                Read the last section.

 7                THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 8   act shall take effect immediately.

 9                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

10   roll.

11                (The Secretary called the roll.)

12                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

13   Jackson to explain his vote.

14                SENATOR JACKSON:   Thank you, 

15   Madam President.

16                My colleagues, I rise to speak on 

17   this particular bill regarding the State 

18   Operations Disparity Study Tax Credit.

19                Representation matters.  Who writes 

20   and produces our TV shows matters.  The content 

21   and tone of these shows matter and can make a 

22   tremendous difference in the lives of the 

23   millions who watch them.  

24                That is why I'm proud to help more 

25   people of color and women build careers in the 


                                                               2628

 1   television industry.  Their new roles in the 

 2   industry will make it more vibrant and relevant 

 3   to every community and will allow the industry to 

 4   grow stronger in New York, creating thousands of 

 5   valuable union jobs.  

 6                This is a major achievement for 

 7   diversity in the film and television industry.  

 8   In 2019, we passed important legislation to 

 9   provide tax credits for the industry to hire 

10   women and people of color as directors and 

11   writers.  In 2020, we passed legislation to 

12   create a disparity study, but the COVID-19 

13   pandemic created a fiscal calamity and prevented 

14   us from funding it.

15                Addressing this problem was not just 

16   a matter of social justice but also of the 

17   long-term health of this critical job-creating 

18   industry in our state.  This bill will put money 

19   at the point of hire of Black and Brown TV 

20   writers and directors for the first time ever, 

21   and I thank my colleagues and the thousands of 

22   Writers Guild and Directors Guild of America 

23   members for their visionary leadership on this 

24   issue.

25                And we say to everyone, we must 


                                                               2629

 1   thank our leaders.  And Andrea Stewart-Cousins, 

 2   our Majority Leader, I thank you on behalf of the 

 3   thousands of members that this will impact, and 

 4   thank all of the staff that worked on it.  

 5                But there are two individuals, 

 6   Lowell Peterson, the Executive Director of the 

 7   Writers Guild of America East AFL-CIO, and 

 8   Neil Dudich, Eastern Executive Director of the 

 9   Directors Guild of America.  I thank them for 

10   fighting for their members to be represented on 

11   the TVs that we watch.

12                Madam President, I vote aye on this 

13   bill.

14                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

15   Jackson to be recorded in the affirmative.

16                Announce the results.

17                THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

18   Calendar 652, those Senators voting in the 

19   negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Boyle, 

20   Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Jordan, Lanza, 

21   Martucci, Mattera, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, 

22   Palumbo, Rath, Ritchie, Serino, Stec, Tedisco and 

23   Weik.

24                Ayes, 43.  Nays, 20.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 


                                                               2630

 1   is passed.

 2                Senator Gianaris.

 3                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Thank you, 

 4   Madam President.  

 5                At this time we're going to hear 

 6   from the leaders, beginning with Minority Leader 

 7   Senator Ortt.  Please recognize him.

 8                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 9   Ortt.

10                SENATOR ORTT:   Thank you very much, 

11   Madam President.  

12                I want to recognize my colleague 

13   from across the aisle, Senate Majority Leader 

14   Andrea Stewart-Cousins.  I want to recognize our 

15   deputy, Senator Lanza, as well as his colleague, 

16   Senator Gianaris, who have been sitting here all 

17   day listening to a lot of speeches, a lot of 

18   arguments, a lot of good debates.

19                I also want to thank and recognize 

20   Senator O'Mara, who is of course our ranker on 

21   the Finance Committee.  Not only -- along with 

22   Senator Krueger -- did he sit through hours and 

23   hours of budget committee hearings, but then of 

24   course he sort of is our tip of the spear when it 

25   comes to debating, in this case the 


                                                               2631

 1   largest-spending budget in New York State 

 2   history.

 3                And it will come as no surprise to 

 4   anybody here, he did not, of course, get the 

 5   bills with a whole lot of advance notice.  

 6                And neither did our staff.  And I'd 

 7   be remiss if I did not thank our staff.  All the 

 8   staff works very hard and very late hours -- in 

 9   fact, they're often up till 3:00 a.m. probably 

10   most of the month of March.  And our staff 

11   certainly in the Minority is no different, only 

12   they have even less time with the bills and have 

13   to brief our conference as quickly and as 

14   completely as possible so that we can come out 

15   here and not only articulate our positions and 

16   debate these bills but also vote in the way that 

17   our constituents would want us to.

18                I know it's late, and I will be 

19   brief.  New York State has led the country in 

20   outmigration the past two years.  It's an 

21   indisputable fact.  There's a lot of things that 

22   have been talked about tonight.  Some of them 

23   were facts, some of them were fiction.  It is a 

24   fact that we have lost more people than we have 

25   brought into the state.  


                                                               2632

 1                Two of the states that have taken 

 2   many of our residents, many of our employers, 

 3   many of our retirees, many of our children, are 

 4   the states of Florida and Texas.  Ironically, 

 5   tonight's budget is larger than Florida and Texas 

 6   combined.  Yet we're supposed to believe that 

 7   what we do here has no bearing on why businesses 

 8   leave, why employees leave, why retirees leave, 

 9   why our children leave.

10                But no one actually believes that.  

11   Nobody.  Nobody back home, nobody in our 

12   districts, no one on Wall Street, no reporter, no 

13   one paying attention believes for a second that 

14   what we do here doesn't matter and doesn't have 

15   an impact on where people choose to live.  They 

16   leave for better opportunities, they leave 

17   because New York State's unaffordable.

18                It was said by a member of the 

19   Majority tonight that this was a recovery budget.  

20   And I thought to myself, How many years will it 

21   take the state to recover from this budget?  It's 

22   going to take long time.

23                We've heard tonight about billions 

24   spent to go towards non-U.S. citizens, 

25   undocumented immigrants.  And I think about only 


                                                               2633

 1   a billion was spent for small business 

 2   assistance, for relief.  Two billion was spent on 

 3   that fund.  Only 500 million was spent for 

 4   middle-class tax relief, but 2 billion was spent 

 5   for undocumented immigrants.  Only 5 million was 

 6   spent for veterans' suicide prevention, but 

 7   2 billion was spent for unemployment benefits for 

 8   non-U.S. citizens.

 9                We haven't been able to rescind one 

10   executive order that this Governor -- a Governor 

11   who's engulfed in scandal, a Governor who's 

12   engulfed in multiple federal and state 

13   investigations, we haven't been able to rescind 

14   one order -- or we've been unwilling, the 

15   Majority has been unwilling to rescind one order, 

16   but yet they steamrolled him when it came to 

17   raising taxes and increasing spending.  He was no 

18   match.  And he capitulated to the radical 

19   progressive left that now runs both houses of the 

20   Legislature.  And that's why we have a state 

21   budget that increases spending by over 

22   10 percent, to 212 billion.  

23                And I'll sum up, Madam President, by 

24   saying that if we think this budget is going to 

25   bring people back to New York -- people who pay 


                                                               2634

 1   taxes, people who put their kids in school, 

 2   people who are looking to invest, to create jobs, 

 3   or people who are looking for a job -- I heard it 

 4   was said tonight that we need to spend all this 

 5   money because New York State is a very expensive 

 6   place to live.  Why don't we try to do something 

 7   about why it's so expensive to live?  Maybe that 

 8   would be the better answer.  

 9                But no, we're doubling down on the 

10   very policies that have put us in the position 

11   we're in.  This is going to exacerbate the 

12   outmigration.  This is going to put New York at a 

13   further disadvantage.  And who are you 

14   disadvantaging?  The people who can't leave.  Not 

15   the millionaires and billionaires who choose to 

16   live in Manhattan.  My colleagues are probably 

17   right; they've been voting for liberal 

18   politicians for years, they've been soaked with 

19   taxes for years, and they stay anyways.  Which 

20   just proves that you don't have to be smart to be 

21   rich.  

22                But I have a lot of constituents in 

23   my district who cannot afford to leave.  They 

24   cannot afford to leave, but they can't afford to 

25   stay.  


                                                               2635

 1                So, Madam President, this budget is 

 2   a bad budget for New Yorkers, it is a bad budget 

 3   for small business, it is a bad budget for 

 4   working-class, taxpaying, law-abiding New 

 5   Yorkers, and that is why I'll be voting no.

 6                I thank you for your indulgence.  I 

 7   thank all the staff.  I thank my colleagues for 

 8   their efforts.  And I again thank you for the 

 9   time, but I will be voting nay.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

11   you, Senator Ortt.

12                Senator Gianaris.

13                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Thank you, 

14   Madam President.  

15                Can we now hear from our great 

16   Majority Leader, Andrea Stewart-Cousins.

17                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Majority 

18   Leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins.

19                SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS:   Thank 

20   you, Madam President.  And thank you for 

21   presiding over this very long debate.  And the 

22   hour is late, so, you know, I will finish my 

23   remarks quickly.  

24                I do want to acknowledge Leader 

25   Senator Ortt.  It's been nice working with you 


                                                               2636

 1   during this process.

 2                And of course I want to acknowledge 

 3   Senator Krueger, who, you know, has done just an 

 4   incredible job with all of these budget hearings 

 5   and certainly during this budget process, and of 

 6   course her colleague Senator O'Mara for his work.  

 7                Also I want to acknowledge my 

 8   deputy, Senator Gianaris.  I know you're so happy 

 9   to continue to be here for this.  But you've come 

10   this far, so you might as well take the 

11   acknowledgment.  Thank you so much for leading 

12   the debate and making sure that our voices are 

13   heard in an orderly fashion.  And of course your 

14   counterpart, Senator Lanza, thank you so much as 

15   well.

16                I really also want to thank my 

17   Counsel and Finance staff.  They are just 

18   incredible people who are dedicated to doing the 

19   work of New Yorkers, and that's on both sides of 

20   the aisle.  This work of the staff to make us all 

21   prepared is not easy, so it is very, very much 

22   appreciated.  And of course a special shout-out 

23   to my chief of staff, the unflappable Shontell 

24   Smith; my Finance Secretary, David Friedfel; 

25   Communications Director Mike Murphy, and Director 


                                                               2637

 1   of Intergovernmental Affairs Loren Amor for all 

 2   that they have done throughout this process.

 3                And of course the amazing members of 

 4   the Democratic Majority Conference for their 

 5   tenacity, their advocacy, and all that they've 

 6   accomplished.  

 7                And I also want to thank the 

 8   countless organizations and grassroots activists 

 9   who advocated for equitable, visionary state 

10   budgets, and for all those who have started to 

11   understand that democracy works best when we work 

12   together.

13                I'm grateful for today.  But I do 

14   miss the days when this chamber, even at 

15   3:00 a.m., was filled with people and energy.  

16   And I do hope that we are on the cusp of that 

17   happening again sometime soon.

18                But being here in this empty chamber 

19   is a reminder again of the awful toll that this 

20   virus has taken over the last year.  Over 50,000 

21   New Yorkers have died from COVID-19.  Countless 

22   parents, grandparents, siblings, friends have 

23   spent more than a year separated from their loved 

24   once.  Thousands of small businesses have seen 

25   their life's work dissipate and their doors 


                                                               2638

 1   shuttered, while even more hardworking 

 2   New Yorkers have lost their jobs or seen their 

 3   incomes plummet.  

 4                Children all over the state have 

 5   lost precious moments to learn, to grow and form 

 6   friendships.  And our front-line health workers 

 7   are still doing heroic work while carrying the 

 8   trauma of seeing their workplaces overwhelmed and 

 9   colleagues lost due to this terrible disease.  

10                These are human tragedies that we as 

11   legislators can never erase from our state's 

12   shared experience.

13                However, many of the deep issues 

14   that have been exposed by this virus existed in 

15   our society beforehand.  That's why so much 

16   happened during this past year -- during so much 

17   of this past year we've acknowledged the need for 

18   a reckoning, and this budget is a reflection of 

19   that reckoning.  

20                We took bold steps to ease the 

21   suffering of our neighbors who are still 

22   struggling.  We chipped away at structural 

23   injustices that made this pandemic even worse for 

24   some New Yorkers than others.  And we invested in 

25   a stronger and a more equitable future for our 


                                                               2639

 1   state so that all of us are better equipped for 

 2   the next crisis and all of us have access to 

 3   affordable housing and quality healthcare and 

 4   good public schools and decent wages that every 

 5   New Yorker deserves.

 6                This budget represents a light at 

 7   the end of the tunnel and shows us a path forward 

 8   that will lead New York State through this 

 9   pandemic and beyond.  The task we faced in 

10   constructing this budget was a daunting one, but 

11   it would have been even more challenging were it 

12   not for the new Democratic Congress that 

13   delivered on President Biden's promise to provide 

14   critical funding through the American Rescue 

15   Plan.  That will help our economy, our families, 

16   our schools and our small businesses.  Thank you, 

17   President Biden, Senate Majority Leader -- our 

18   own New Yorker -- Chuck Schumer, Speaker Nancy 

19   Pelosi, and those from our New York congressional 

20   delegation who showed moral leadership in 

21   supporting this needed recovery.

22                This federal support was desperately 

23   needed, and it creates a bridge to the future by 

24   offsetting so much of the economic damage caused 

25   by the COVID-19 pandemic.  It gives us the 


                                                               2640

 1   opportunity to look at the other side of that 

 2   bridge and chart a new, more equitable path 

 3   forward.  

 4                Here's what we did with that 

 5   opportunity.  In 2019 we passed the strongest 

 6   housing and tenant protections in the history of 

 7   New York State.  However, the pandemic has 

 8   further exposed the thin line for so many between 

 9   having a roof over their head or homelessness.  

10   Too often the difference is just a single 

11   paycheck.  This budget will help provide renters 

12   who can't afford their rents and struggling 

13   landlords and homeowners across the state some 

14   security.

15                New York State's students and 

16   educators have navigated tough times, adapting to 

17   remote learning and safely reopening our schools.  

18   This Senate Majority is moving forward with a 

19   transformational increase in state and federal 

20   resources to create better educational 

21   opportunities for our students and provide the 

22   resources our teachers need to do their job.

23                Our commitment to educating all of 

24   our children, from pre-K to the senior year of 

25   college, has never been more evident than it is 


                                                               2641

 1   today.  We are expanding pre-K for more than 200 

 2   school districts and will be committing to 

 3   universal pre-K statewide in the next three 

 4   years.  

 5                We're finally giving our schools the 

 6   funding that was owed for years -- in fact, when 

 7   I first ran, it was about CFE in many ways.  And 

 8   so we're committing to a three-year phase-in of 

 9   fully funded Foundation Aid.  

10                And we're investing in higher 

11   education like never before, with higher 

12   scholarships, hundreds of millions in new funding 

13   for CUNY and SUNY, including eliminating the TAP 

14   gap after three years.

15                This budget helps New Yorkers from 

16   young children in pre-K throughout the entire 

17   education system to those seeking a higher 

18   education to improve their opportunities in life.  

19   Investing in students at all points in their 

20   education is how we ensure a better future for 

21   both them and all of us.  

22                The COVID-19 pandemic shuttered so 

23   many of our small businesses, and we mourn the 

24   restaurants and the stores and the theaters in 

25   our communities that will never come back.  But 


                                                               2642

 1   there are others that are hanging on but are 

 2   still struggling, and today the Senate Majority 

 3   is telling them that we have their back.  This  

 4   budget adds a billion in direct state aid for 

 5   small business in addition to the 2.3 billion of 

 6   federal funding that will be available.  

 7                It also funds nonprofits, arts 

 8   organizations that will be vital to life in 

 9   New York returning to the vibrant, dynamic normal 

10   we all remember.

11                We're also committed to building an 

12   infrastructure worthy of the 21st century, and 

13   that's why we're spending more than a billion 

14   dollars on infrastructure investments, including 

15   hundreds of millions on our local roads and 

16   expanding access to affordable broadband 

17   throughout the state.  

18                And as the emerging debate in 

19   Washington has made clear, we can't tackle 

20   infrastructure without also taking on climate 

21   change.  This budget takes historic action to 

22   authorize 3 billion for the Environmental Bond 

23   Act of 2021 -- Clean Water, Green Jobs, Green 

24   New York -- to fund environmental improvements 

25   that preserve, enhance and restore New York's 


                                                               2643

 1   natural resources and reduces the impact of 

 2   climate change.

 3                The pandemic highlighted gaps in our 

 4   healthcare system.  This budget is committed to 

 5   ensuring that New Yorkers receive quality and 

 6   affordable healthcare by restoring billions of 

 7   dollars to cuts in our system and other services, 

 8   increasing access to healthcare for everyone, 

 9   including our most vulnerable residents.  

10                So many hardworking people in 

11   New York have faced economic hardship and 

12   challenges in employment opportunities during 

13   this pandemic, and that's why we're creating a 

14   new, one-time-only Excluded Worker Fund to 

15   provide financial resources to workers who lost 

16   their jobs during the COVID-19 pandemic but were 

17   ineligible for any aid.  Despite even some of the 

18   dehumanizing rhetoric, the fact that this money 

19   is going to people who work jobs, pay taxes and 

20   kept our economy running and our families fed -- 

21   at great risk to their health and lives -- but 

22   didn't get any help in return, we need to make 

23   sure that we are helping people.  

24                The fearmongers won't tell 

25   New Yorkers this story on their Twitter accounts.  


                                                               2644

 1   Again, you heard it before:  Undocumented 

 2   immigrants in New York paid an estimated 

 3   $3.6 billion in taxes in 2019, 1.4 billion in 

 4   state taxes alone.  They put 19.2 billion into 

 5   our state's economy.  

 6                It is in everyone's best interests 

 7   that all unemployed New Yorkers get back on their 

 8   feet regardless of their immigration status.  

 9   Let's be clear, this money is stimulus money -- 

10   it will be going right back into our local 

11   economies.

12                And, sadly, we have seen a rash of 

13   hate crimes against our Asian brothers and 

14   sisters, something that we must put an end to 

15   immediately.  This budget provides much-needed 

16   funding to combat hate crimes, offer protections 

17   to communities, and also provides educational 

18   tools to combat hate in schools.

19                New York has a robust and expansive 

20   agriculture industry that is crucial to the 

21   state's economy.  This budget provides help for 

22   our family farmers who kept food on our tables at 

23   the height of pandemic.  

24                These historic investments are not 

25   only vital to our current recovery, they are the 


                                                               2645

 1   foundation for shared prosperity and broad 

 2   opportunity.  Which is why we're not just 

 3   plugging today's deficits and leaving the 

 4   problems of the future for another time.  

 5   Instead, we are asking those who have done the 

 6   best during this pandemic to give a little more 

 7   so we can truly rebuild our state in a 

 8   sustainable way.  

 9                Despite what our colleagues across 

10   the aisle may say, the facts are that if you are 

11   a New Yorker not making over a million dollars 

12   annually -- that's net -- this does not impact 

13   you.

14                In fact, today we delivered 

15   much-needed tax breaks for working and 

16   middle-class New Yorkers, including a new 

17   $440 million property tax circuit breaker and 

18   guaranteeing $400 million in middle-class 

19   personal income tax cuts.

20                We also legalized mobile sports 

21   wagering to create jobs and bring hundreds of 

22   millions of dollars in revenue to our state.  

23   What this revenue will do is to help all 

24   New Yorkers -- our families, friends and 

25   neighbors.  


                                                               2646

 1                This is all pretty incredible when 

 2   you take a moment to remember the many challenges 

 3   this budget brought with it:  A preexisting 

 4   deficit, a global pandemic, and questions about 

 5   how to best take advantage of this federal aid 

 6   package and not lead to a fiscal cliff.

 7                While this budget may not hit upon 

 8   the absolute wants of every individual person or 

 9   group, it helps all of us move forward together.  

10   This is a bold budget and takes historic action 

11   during unprecedented times, and for that I'm 

12   proud and ready to continue this momentum in the 

13   coming months of the legislative session.

14                Again, I want to thank all my 

15   Senators, all of our Senators on both sides of 

16   the aisle, all the staff, for their extraordinary 

17   work.  

18                So we have a little break.  You can 

19   get back to your districts, your families safely 

20   and enjoy a little bit of spring.  And of course 

21   when we come back, we'll continue to do the 

22   people's work.

23                So thank you, and of course I vote 

24   aye.

25                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 


                                                               2647

 1   you, Madam Leader.

 2                Senator Gianaris.

 3                SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

 4   is there any further business at the desk?

 5                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   There is 

 6   no further business at the desk.

 7                SENATOR GIANARIS:   I move to 

 8   adjourn until Monday, April 19th, at 3:00 p.m., 

 9   intervening days being legislative days.

10                ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   On 

11   motion, the Senate stands adjourned until Monday, 

12   April 19th, at 3:00 p.m., intervening days being 

13   legislative days.

14                (Whereupon, at 3:27 a.m., the Senate 

15   adjourned.)

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25