1
1 BEFORE THE NEW YORK STATE SENATE FINANCE
AND ASSEMBLY WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEES
2 ----------------------------------------------------
3 JOINT LEGISLATIVE HEARING
4 In the Matter of the
2022-2023 EXECUTIVE BUDGET ON
5 WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT
6 ----------------------------------------------------
7
Virtual Hearing
8 Conducted Online via Zoom
9 January 31, 2022
11:02 a.m.
10
11
PRESIDING:
12
Senator Liz Krueger
13 Chair, Senate Finance Committee
14 Assemblywoman Helene E. Weinstein
Chair, Assembly Ways & Means Committee
15
16 PRESENT:
17 Senator Thomas F. O'Mara
Senate Finance Committee (RM)
18
Assemblyman Edward P. Ra
19 Assembly Ways & Means Committee (RM)
20 Senator Jessica Ramos
Chair, Senate Committee on Labor
21
Assemblywoman Latoya Joyner
22 Chair, Assembly Committee on Labor
23 Senator Robert Jackson
Chair, Senate Committee on Civil Service
24 and Pensions
2
1 2022-2023 Executive Budget
Workforce Development
2 1-31-22
3 PRESENT: (Continued)
4 Assemblyman Peter J. Abbate, Jr.
Chair, Assembly Committee on
5 Governmental Employees
6 Senator Pete Harckham
7 Senator Brad Hoylman
8 Senator Roxanne J. Persaud
9 Assemblyman Phil Steck
10 Senator Diane J. Savino
11 Assemblyman Joe DeStefano
12 Senator George Borrello
13 Assemblywoman Judy Griffin
14 Senator Shelley Mayer
15 Assemblyman Harry Bronson
16 Senator John C. Liu
17 Assemblywoman Jo Anne Simon
18 Senator John W. Mannion
19 Assemblyman Colin Schmitt
20 Senator Mario R. Mattera
21 Assemblyman Erik M. Dilan
22 Senator James Tedisco
23 Assemblyman Jonathan G. Jacobson
24 Senator Andrew Gounardes
3
1 2022-2023 Executive Budget
Workforce Development
2 1-31-22
3 PRESENT: (Continued)
4 Senator Anna M. Kaplan
5 Assemblywoman Alicia Hyndman
6 Senator Patrick M. Gallivan
7 Assemblyman Jeffrion L. Aubry
8 Senator Leroy Comrie
9 Assemblywoman Karines Reyes
10 Senator Sue Serino
11 Assemblywoman Vivian E. Cook
12 Senator Sean M. Ryan
13
14
15 LIST OF SPEAKERS
16 STATEMENT QUESTIONS
17 Roberta Reardon
Commissioner
18 Department of Labor 9 16
19 Rebecca Corso
Acting Commissioner
20 NYS Department of
Civil Service 133 142
21
Michael N. Volforte
22 Director
NYS Governor's Office of
23 Employee Relations (GOER) 181 188
24
4
1 2022-2023 Executive Budget
Workforce Development
2 1-31-22
3 LIST OF SPEAKERS, Continued
4 STATEMENT QUESTIONS
5 Joshua Terry
Legislative Director
6 Civil Service Employees
Association, Local 1000
7 -and-
Randi DiAntonio
8 Vice President
NYS Public Employees
9 Federation (PEF)
-and-
10 Barbara Zaron
President
11 Organization of NYS Management
Confidential Employees (OMCE)
12 -and-
Edward Farrell
13 Executive Director
Retired Public Employees
14 Association 208 223
15 Martha Ponge
Director of Apprenticeship
16 Manufacturers Association of
Central New York (MACNY)
17 -on behalf of-
Manufacturers Intermediary
18 Apprenticeship Program
(MIAP)
19 -and-
Maritza Silva-Farrell
20 Executive Director
ALIGN-NY
21 -and-
Elisa Crespo
22 Executive Director
NEW Pride Agenda 237 248
23
24
5
1 2022-2023 Executive Budget
Workforce Development
2 1-31-22
3 LIST OF SPEAKERS, Continued
4 STATEMENT QUESTION
5 James A. Parrott, Ph.D.
Director of Economic and
6 Fiscal Policies
Center for New York City
7 Affairs at The New School
-and-
8 Dr. Patricia Campos-Medina
Executive Director
9 The Worker Institute
NYS School of Industrial
10 and Labor Relations at
Cornell University 262 269
11
Yvette Bairan
12 Chief Executive Officer
Astor Services for
13 Children & Families
-and-
14 Adam Flint
Director of Clean Energy
15 Programs
Network for a Sustainable
16 Tomorrow
-on behalf of-
17 NYS Climate and Clean Energy
Careers Working Group 284 292
18
Julissa Bisono
19 Co-Director of Organizing
Make the Road New York
20 -and-
Lucas Sanchez
21 Deputy Director
New York Communities
22 for Change 304 310
23
24
6
1 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Good morning,
2 everyone. It is Monday, January 31st, at
3 11 a.m., and I am State Senator Liz Krueger,
4 the chair of the Finance Committee, joined by
5 Helene Weinstein, the chair of the Assembly
6 Ways and Means Committee, to roll out the
7 first of a long week of budget hearings.
8 This is the budget hearing on
9 workforce issues.
10 And I am going to just start us off
11 with an opening statement, then we'll
12 introduce legislators and then we'll roll
13 into today's first testifier.
14 Again, as I said, today is the
15 third -- oh, I didn't say it yet. Today is
16 the third of 13 hearings conducted by the
17 joint fiscal committees of the Legislature
18 regarding the Governor's proposed budget for
19 the state fiscal year '22-'23. These
20 hearings are conducted pursuant to the
21 New York State Constitution and Legislative
22 Law.
23 Today the Senate Finance Committee and
24 the Assembly Ways and Means Committee will
7
1 hear testimony concerning the Governor's
2 proposed budget for the New York State
3 Department of Labor, the New York State
4 Department of Civil Service, and the New York
5 State Governor's Office of Employee
6 Relations.
7 Following each testimony there will be
8 some time for questions from the relevant
9 chairs and rankers of the fiscal committees
10 and other related committees and the
11 legislators therein.
12 I will now introduce members from the
13 Senate. Assemblymember and Chair Helene
14 Weinstein, chair of Assembly Ways and Means,
15 will introduce members from the Assembly.
16 In addition, I will have Senator Tom
17 O'Mara, ranking member of the Senate Finance
18 Committee, introduce members of his
19 conference, and Helene will do the same with
20 the Assembly.
21 And looking at the list so far of
22 people who have joined us, we have Senator
23 John Mannion, Senator Andrew Gounardes,
24 Senator Anna Kaplan, Senator Diane Savino,
8
1 Senator Pete Harckham, Senator Robert
2 Jackson.
3 And is my ranker already here,
4 Tom O'Mara?
5 SENATOR RAMOS: Chair, I'm here too.
6 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Oh, I'm sorry,
7 Jessica, I didn't see you on the list. I
8 apologize.
9 Senator Jessica Ramos. And I don't
10 see Tom yet, so let me just quickly introduce
11 Senator Jim Tedisco, Senator Patrick
12 Gallivan. I think I've covered -- ah,
13 Senator -- no, that's the Assemblymember
14 Steck. We have a Stec(k) in each house.
15 I think I'm going to hand it over to
16 Assemblywoman Weinstein.
17 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
18 So we have with us Assemblywoman
19 Latoya Joyner, our Labor chair;
20 Assemblymember Peter Abbate, our Government
21 Employees chair; Assemblyman Bronson;
22 Assemblyman Dilan; and Assemblyman Steck.
23 Assemblyman Ra, our ranker on Ways and
24 Means, can introduce his colleague who is
9
1 here.
2 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Thank you, Chair.
3 We are currently joined by Assemblyman
4 Joe DeStefano, who is the ranking member on
5 the Government Employees Committee.
6 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: And don't worry,
7 as more members join during the course of the
8 hearing, we will introduce them.
9 I would like to now turn it over to
10 Commissioner of the Department of Labor
11 Roberta Reardon. And Commissioner Reardon
12 has been us with us multiple years, so she
13 knows the drill. You have up to 10 minutes
14 to present the highlights of your testimony.
15 All members of the Legislature have access to
16 the testimony to read along with, as do all
17 members of the public.
18 So good morning, Commissioner Reardon.
19 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Good morning.
20 Chairs Senator Krueger and Weinstein,
21 distinguished members of the committee, thank
22 you for this opportunity to talk about some
23 of the progressive proposals that Governor
24 Hochul included in her Executive Budget, as
10
1 well as to provide you with an update on our
2 efforts at the Department of Labor.
3 My name is Roberta Reardon, and I am
4 the Commissioner of the New York State
5 Department of Labor. Our mission is to
6 protect workers, provide support to the
7 unemployed, and help New Yorkers find a
8 career they love. We also support businesses
9 across the state, which is needed as we
10 continue to navigate COVID-19.
11 The pandemic continues to present
12 challenges, but as New Yorkers we continue to
13 face and overcome them. Thanks to the
14 leadership of Governor Hochul, and with the
15 partnership of the Legislature, the
16 Department of Labor continues to evolve to
17 better suit the needs of all New Yorkers. We
18 are laser-focused on preparing New Yorkers to
19 assume their rightful place in the economy of
20 tomorrow.
21 The DOL continues to prioritize
22 assisting unemployed New Yorkers. Since the
23 start of the pandemic, we have delivered
24 around $104 billion in benefits to
11
1 4.8 million New Yorkers, to help them feed
2 their families, pay their rent, and give
3 people support when they needed it most
4 because they could not work -- this, while
5 also standing up six programs. We also
6 launched a new unemployment application,
7 expanded phone lines to handle unprecedented
8 volume, and continue to fight fraud by
9 international cybercriminals.
10 We remain focused on keeping our
11 systems secure, even though Unemployment
12 Insurance assistance numbers have improved.
13 I applaud our Office of Special
14 Investigations for their incredible work
15 during this crisis. They have prevented over
16 $36 billion from falling into the hands of
17 criminals, and that number continues to grow
18 everyday thanks to their vigilance.
19 At the same time, worker protection
20 remains another one of our top priorities.
21 Our labor standards and worker protection
22 teams remain vigilant in ensuring the safety
23 and health of all workers. We continue to
24 safeguard workers from disease by mandating
12
1 workplace health precautions. Since the
2 beginning of the pandemic, we have
3 investigated over 53,000 complaints and work
4 with local governments to ensure compliance,
5 while also protecting workers from wage
6 theft.
7 In 2021, we launched the Excluded
8 Workers Fund, an innovative assistance
9 program devoted to helping those outside
10 traditional unemployment assistance programs.
11 We helped get over $2 billion into the hands
12 of over 120,000 New Yorkers in just three
13 months.
14 The DOL is also currently wrapping up
15 distributing support payments to thousands of
16 workers in the hard-hit tourism industry.
17 The pandemic provided many New Yorkers
18 a unique opportunity: a moment to reevaluate
19 their lives and, in many cases, pursue new
20 careers that better suited the needs of
21 themselves and their families. The DOL
22 recognized this and continues to explore
23 innovative ways to help those New Yorkers
24 develop the skills they need to secure the
13
1 jobs of the future.
2 We embraced virtual technology and now
3 provide free tools online to job seekers.
4 More than 63,000 New Yorkers have logged
5 nearly 700,000 hours of online skill learning
6 via Coursera, which we provide for free.
7 These courses are geared toward high-demand
8 skills based on what businesses tell us they
9 need.
10 Partnerships continue to be an
11 essential part of our approach for enhancing
12 training opportunities for New Yorkers.
13 Through New York State's Workforce
14 Development Initiative, the DOL is working
15 with Empire State Development Corporation,
16 SUNY, and CUNY to support job training that
17 will establish a pipeline of skilled workers.
18 The DOL also stands ready to work with the
19 new Office of Workforce and Economic
20 Development, the Regional Economic
21 Development Councils, and other partners to
22 strategically connect skilled workers to jobs
23 in every region of the state.
24 Long-term solutions that benefit
14
1 workers and businesses will be an important
2 chapter in New York's economic comeback
3 story.
4 A very successful initiative in our
5 multipronged approach in terms of workforce
6 development is registered apprenticeships.
7 This long-term solution to get New Yorkers
8 into high-paying, in-demand careers is
9 proving to be a win for both job seekers and
10 businesses. Registered apprenticeships give
11 New Yorkers the skills they need to thrive
12 within an industry while also providing
13 businesses with a skilled workforce catered
14 to a company's needs.
15 There are around 18,000 apprentices
16 participating in nearly 1,000 registered
17 apprenticeship programs in our state, and we
18 continue to expand into additional platforms.
19 This pandemic highlighted
20 vulnerabilities in some sectors, and Governor
21 Hochul is addressing them. In her budget she
22 outlined her historic $10 billion plan to
23 rapidly rebuild and grow our healthcare
24 workforce by 20 percent. Healthcare workers
15
1 are the heroes of this pandemic, and we must
2 add more support to turn the corner on
3 COVID-19.
4 The pandemic also highlighted the
5 import role childcare has in the lives of our
6 workforce. As cochair of the Governor's
7 Child Care Availability Task Force, I can
8 tell you that affordable childcare is
9 essential. Governor Hochul's plan to expand
10 childcare access will help strengthen this
11 critical support for families.
12 While we continue to navigate
13 COVID-19, we must not lose sight of what's on
14 our horizon. The Governor's proposed
15 investment in offshore wind will create
16 thousands of new jobs, and as cochair of the
17 Just Transition Working Group, it is my duty
18 to ensure that every community has a seat at
19 the table as we expand our clean-energy
20 sector.
21 Small businesses also remain a vital
22 part of our economy, and these community
23 cornerstones must be protected through
24 Governor Hochul's proposed tax credits and
16
1 funding supports. The Department of Labor
2 also offers support services for businesses
3 of all sizes.
4 2021 continued to test all New York
5 State agencies, including the Department of
6 Labor. But together we rose above,
7 persevered, and continue to pioneer forward.
8 We are prepared for what comes after
9 COVID-19, and we want to ensure that all
10 New Yorkers are ready to participate, succeed
11 and thrive in the economy of tomorrow.
12 (Pause.)
13 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you,
14 Commissioner. I thought that was done; I
15 wanted to make sure you didn't have a new
16 sentence.
17 Our first questioner for you this
18 morning will be Senator Jessica Ramos, who is
19 the chair of our Labor Committee.
20 Good morning, Senator.
21 SENATOR RAMOS: Ah, good morning,
22 Senator. Good morning, Chair. Good morning,
23 Everybody.
24 I'm really excited to see you, even if
17
1 it's virtually, Commissioner Reardon. I
2 never thought I'd miss you, but I do.
3 (Laughter.)
4 SENATOR RAMOS: And I'm really glad
5 that we're having these conversations today.
6 This morning I want to start by thanking you
7 for the role that you've played on the
8 Farmworkers Wage Board. Huge victory in
9 recognizing the humanity of those workers and
10 making sure that we have a plan to get to
11 40 hours as a threshold for overtime. So
12 kudos to you.
13 I'm going to start my questions today
14 with Unemployment Insurance, since it was
15 such a hot topic during the pandemic. You
16 know, we saw the DOL pay out federal benefits
17 to individuals who were technically
18 ineligible but didn't do anything wrong,
19 didn't lie on their applications for
20 benefits. The DOL is now asking for these
21 funds back, even though the federal
22 government is paying to waive these back
23 payments owed, costing New York nothing.
24 When will New York process waiver
18
1 applications?
2 COMMISSIONER REARDON: So we are in
3 the process this quarter of rolling out the
4 waiver process. I want to point out that a
5 lot of states have really struggled with
6 getting the waivers out. It's very
7 complicated, and it's an IT solution. Like
8 much of our technology these days, it's
9 complicated. But we are in the process right
10 now of being able to roll them out.
11 I can appreciate the position that
12 this puts people in, and we certainly don't
13 want to cause them any more alarm than the
14 pandemic has already caused them. But the
15 waiver process is getting ready to go out,
16 and we expect hopefully -- fingers crossed --
17 no problems in the applications coming in.
18 It will be a pretty automated process, and
19 people should be able to just send back the
20 information and we can process it that way.
21 It's --
22 SENATOR RAMOS: And when will that be?
23 When?
24 COMMISSIONER REARDON: We're getting
19
1 ready to roll it out now. It's the first
2 quarter, so probably February -- it's going
3 to be done in chunks, not all at once,
4 because we can't send that many out in one
5 bundle.
6 But they're coming, and people should
7 be able to fill out their waivers and get
8 them back to us.
9 SENATOR RAMOS: All right. Something
10 tells me we're going to keep working on this
11 one together as that rollout happens.
12 What efforts has the DOL made to
13 ensure New Yorkers know their rights and
14 ability to receive UI if they refuse to work
15 in unsafe conditions?
16 COMMISSIONER REARDON: So that's an
17 interesting question. You have the right,
18 under the COVID precautions, to deny -- if
19 you don't want to work in an unsafe
20 condition, you can let us know that and then
21 we can process your claim.
22 As you know, you can't walk off the
23 job and be eligible for unemployment. But
24 this is not walking off the job, this is
20
1 because you have a serious complaint about
2 your safety and health, and that's in the
3 regulations.
4 SENATOR RAMOS: Well, there used to be
5 misleading instructions about this on the DOL
6 website. Have those been replaced? Or if
7 not, when will they be clarified on the
8 website?
9 COMMISSIONER REARDON: I'm not sure
10 what you're referring to. Let me find out
11 and I can get back to you. I know that we've
12 been changing the --
13 SENATOR RAMOS: Well, because on the
14 website there is mention of the right to
15 refuse unsafe working conditions, but we just
16 feel that there's been minimal outreach done
17 and the instructions that have been on the
18 website aren't helpful. So if you have --
19 COMMISSIONER REARDON: We'll take a
20 look at them.
21 SENATOR RAMOS: Please do.
22 COMMISSIONER REARDON: It's always
23 evolving.
24 SENATOR RAMOS: Thanks. I want to
21
1 move on to the new verification system.
2 We've received complaints about it. It's
3 called ID.me, for those who might not be
4 familiar. The rollout of ID.me we believe
5 imposes barriers to protected groups of
6 claimants, including and especially those
7 with limited English proficiency, claimants
8 with disabilities, older New Yorkers or
9 individuals who experience challenges with
10 technology or literacy.
11 Will the DOL commit to immediately
12 creating meaningful alternatives to ID.me?
13 COMMISSIONER REARDON: We are in
14 conversations with UI advocates as we speak
15 on these issues. They certainly have raised
16 them, and we're very concerned to make sure
17 everybody has appropriate access.
18 We do have access -- other ways of
19 accessing in place, but if they're not enough
20 we will look at improving them.
21 Obviously, this is -- you know, we
22 paid out over $104 billion to almost
23 5 million New Yorkers. And when you have
24 that amount of money going out, of course you
22
1 end up with cybercriminals coming after that
2 money as well. And we had to find a way to
3 ensure that the right people were getting
4 their benefits.
5 The worst thing that can happen, for
6 me, is that somebody's benefit is stolen by
7 somebody else. And that's why we've had to
8 set up ID.me. This is a technology that's
9 used by the federal government, it's used by
10 many, many states. We have to have some way
11 to guarantee that the rightful recipient is
12 actually applying for this benefit.
13 That said --
14 SENATOR RAMOS: Are you going to
15 provide written notifications and will
16 language access be available for --
17 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Language access
18 is always available. I mean, that's one of
19 our mandates. And we also have a trusted
20 referee. If somebody's having difficulty,
21 they can actually talk to a human about, you
22 know, these issues. ID.me provides that
23 service.
24 But we continue to look at this issue
23
1 and work with our various stakeholders to
2 make sure that nobody is unnecessarily
3 burdened with proving their identity.
4 That said, the cybercriminality in
5 this area is overwhelming. And
6 unfortunately, we live in a world today where
7 we all have to verify ourselves in a way we
8 never did before.
9 SENATOR RAMOS: So speaking of
10 technology, I want to move on to the DOL
11 computer system. You might remember at the
12 last hearing last year, I brought to your
13 attention that many of my constituents -- and
14 I think everybody's constituents -- struggled
15 to receive UI in a timely manner during the
16 pandemic.
17 You assured us that the DOL would be
18 improving technology in various ways, and at
19 one point we even heard from the former
20 Governor that Google would play a role. And
21 yet in 2022 we're still hearing the same
22 complaints, in addition to new complaints,
23 about the DOL complaint system.
24 So what strides are being taken now to
24
1 bring technology into the situation?
2 COMMISSIONER REARDON: We have been
3 able to do an amazing amount of building the
4 plane while flying. We had to make sure that
5 we could process claims as they came in while
6 we were upgrading the system, and that was
7 certainly not an easy task to do.
8 And we're not done. I mean, we know
9 that this is an ongoing quest. The whole UI
10 rebuild will be done, you know, in another
11 year or so. But during the pandemic, we
12 rebuilt the interface. There is a new Google
13 application that went up that was
14 mobile-friendly so that people could use the
15 technology that they had, which is the way
16 people communicate these days.
17 We have bots that work behind the
18 scenes that get a lot of the information that
19 our telephone center operators need. We have
20 a dashboard that gives the information for
21 the operator right in front of them, they
22 don't have to go through multiple screens.
23 There's all kinds of technology like this.
24 And we are constantly updating. We
25
1 have a chatbot on the website now that we
2 call Perkins, in honor of Frances Perkins,
3 who started the UI system almost a hundred
4 years ago, and you can go in and talk to the
5 chatbot. It talks in I think 12 different
6 languages. And it gives you general
7 information. We are constantly working to
8 refine the chatbot and make it more
9 interactive individually. Those are all
10 things that are yet to come.
11 But we want to make sure that we meet
12 people where they are. One of the things we
13 learned through the pandemic is --
14 SENATOR RAMOS: Sorry, Commissioner,
15 to cut you off, but I only have a little more
16 than two minutes and I'm going to squeeze one
17 more in there, and that is my last question
18 on UI.
19 Also last year I made you aware that
20 there are thousands of UI claimants that have
21 more improperly put into the PUA when they
22 are actually eligible for unemployment
23 insurance, and they're in that way losing up
24 to 13 weeks of benefits. In response, you
26
1 told me last year that claimants have the
2 opportunity to dispute or request a hearing.
3 Do you know how many New Yorkers have
4 filed claims related to improperly being put
5 into PUA? How many of those claims have been
6 resolved? And what kind of outreach is being
7 done by the DOL since I brought this issue to
8 your attention?
9 COMMISSIONER REARDON: So when
10 somebody receives their letter of
11 determination, in the letter itself it says
12 if you disagree with these findings, this is
13 the process to file a dispute.
14 So everybody receives that before they
15 actually begin to get their first benefit.
16 And that is a constant. We have information
17 all over the website about it. We work with,
18 as I said before, the UI advocates to make
19 sure that pockets of people who may not have
20 as much access also have information.
21 I don't know how many people have
22 filed to change their determination from PUA
23 to straight-up UI. I can find that out for
24 you. But, you know, the information is out.
27
1 We do a tremendous amount of messaging. I
2 have to say we send out -- I think last week
3 we sent out over 3 million emails and over
4 2 million text messages. Not just for UI,
5 but for lots of other programs. We are
6 constantly messaging with our customers.
7 SENATOR RAMOS: Okay. Well, thank
8 you. I'm going to stop right there. And
9 Chair Krueger, I'll sign up for a second
10 round, please. Thank you so much.
11 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
12 And for everybody, just a reminder.
13 Only the chair of the relevant committee gets
14 a second round, and it's only three minutes.
15 So prepare now, Jessica, for a speed
16 lightning round perhaps quite a while from
17 now.
18 And again, everyone else -- chairs of
19 relevant committees get 10 minutes, rankers
20 get five minutes, everybody else gets three
21 minutes.
22 Helene Weinstein.
23 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you,
24 Senator Krueger.
28
1 While the commissioner was speaking,
2 we have been joined by Assemblyman Jacobson,
3 Assemblywoman Simon, Assemblywoman Griffin,
4 and Assemblyman Schmitt.
5 We go to our Labor chair, Latoya
6 Joyner, 10 minutes.
7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JOYNER: Thank you so
8 much.
9 Good morning, Commissioner. Good to
10 see you.
11 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Good morning.
12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JOYNER: I'm going to
13 start the questions off on the Unemployment
14 Insurance.
15 So we're all aware of this $10 billion
16 debt that we owe back to the federal
17 government. What's the expected timeline to
18 repay this debt?
19 COMMISSIONER REARDON: So it's
20 9.5 billion. I know it's not -- half a
21 billion makes a difference.
22 We are working very closely with our
23 partners in government to find ways to help
24 out on this debt. One of the things that
29
1 we're doing -- we are one of eight states
2 that filed a letter with Janet Yellin to see
3 if the Treasury Department could take up our
4 cause and forgive at least some of this debt.
5 Forty-five percent of the states in
6 this country owe money to the federal
7 government because of the pandemic, and
8 New York is one of them. We don't have the
9 highest debt, thank God, but we certainly
10 don't have the lowest. And it is a constant
11 cause of consternation for all of us.
12 There are timelines within the
13 regulations that spell out how this gets
14 repaid. I don't have it right in front of
15 me, but it's in the regulation.
16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JOYNER: And if you
17 could share that with us, that would be
18 appreciated.
19 Okay, and then what are some -- just
20 also while you're answering that, so what are
21 some steps the Executive is also taking to
22 make sure we're meeting our repayment
23 obligations while also balancing the cost to
24 employers? It's a connected question.
30
1 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Right. So, you
2 know, we've had a lot of conversations of
3 different ways to do this. We've not settled
4 on one of them yet.
5 The good news in all of this is that
6 last year my commissioner's order stopped the
7 experience rating for all employers. So for
8 all of last year, you didn't get a ding every
9 time one of your employees went on
10 unemployment, because frankly many people had
11 all their employees on unemployment. So
12 there was no additional burden from that year
13 of the pandemic.
14 Starting this year, the experience
15 rating will go in again but the effect of
16 that will not be felt in the bill until next
17 year. And similarly, the rate for
18 unemployment insurance this year went up a
19 bit because of UI reform -- it mandates
20 that -- but it doesn't reflect the larger
21 increase of paying back the fund until next
22 year. So we have a little bit of breathing
23 time.
24 We are looking at all solutions.
31
1 Frankly, I do believe that the federal
2 government needs to play an important role
3 here. These people, these men and women were
4 put on unemployment through no fault of their
5 own. Their employers had no ability to keep
6 them employed. So, you know, this was a,
7 hopefully, once-in-a-lifetime experience --
8 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JOYNER: Okay. Sorry to
9 interrupt. Just trying to get all these
10 questions out in 10 minutes.
11 Do you know what's the average rate
12 increase on employers, UI rates, that were
13 assessed last year? And should employers
14 expect a significant increase this year?
15 COMMISSIONER REARDON: So the rate for
16 this year is higher. I don't have the
17 percentage. I can get it for you. It's not
18 huge.
19 The larger increase for people who
20 have a higher experience rating this year
21 means that they -- meaning that they have
22 employees that go on unemployment, that won't
23 be felt until next year. And in fact they
24 may actually see a decrease in their rate for
32
1 that reason.
2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JOYNER: Okay. And the
3 next question is also related to UI. What
4 should employers expect to see in regards to
5 their FUTA credit and a potential decrease,
6 since we will be paying off this UI deficit
7 for a number of years?
8 COMMISSIONER REARDON: So in the last
9 recession in 2009 it took I think about
10 10 years to pay it back fully. It's a little
11 bit less than that.
12 So this is a larger date, so it will
13 be a longer period of time. But it depends
14 on the calculation. I don't want to give you
15 a hard number because I don't have it in
16 front of me, I'd rather give it -- I can give
17 it to you in writing. But it's -- you know,
18 there's a formula for this that actually was
19 part of UI reform that the Legislature passed
20 after the last recession. That reform
21 actually strengthened the UI Trust Fund and
22 allowed us to rate the benefit. So that's
23 the formula that will be applied to this.
24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JOYNER: Okay. So the
33
1 budget also proposes this interest assessment
2 account, the Executive will put in 250
3 million into this account to help pay back
4 interest payments accrued by the state
5 borrowing funds for UI over the course of the
6 pandemic.
7 What's the cost to employers who will
8 be paying back on this interest? How much
9 will employers be paying on top of their
10 typical rates? And then are the payments
11 going to be assessed quarterly or annually?
12 COMMISSIONER REARDON: The payments
13 are usually assessed annually, but I don't
14 want to misspeak here. I don't know what the
15 actual percentage is. And again, I think it
16 depends on what happens with the balance of
17 the trust fund.
18 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JOYNER: Okay, thank
19 you.
20 Last year the Executive Budget
21 proposed the $50 million for a COVID-19
22 Recovery Workforce Initiative. Can you talk
23 a little bit about this? How has the money
24 been used, has it been released, what
34
1 purposes? How can we actually see the
2 results of this?
3 COMMISSIONER REARDON: So a large part
4 of it, over $30 million of it, went to the
5 gun prevention programs that we invested in
6 last summer. And these were statewide. This
7 was a program to help very high risk youth --
8 bring them in, give them training, get them
9 into good jobs.
10 This is happening across the state.
11 Outside of New York City it's being
12 administered through the local Workforce
13 Development Boards, and in the city it's
14 being administered by the Consortium for
15 Worker Education.
16 They are in the process of doing this
17 now. They have some number of people who are
18 in jobs. Many of them are in training --
19 they get assessed, then training, and then
20 jobs. This is a year-long process, so they
21 have until, I believe, June, the end of June
22 to finish this part of the program.
23 The other part of that money was used
24 for the scholarship program for people in
35
1 healthcare. It's a very innovative idea from
2 Governor Hochul. We need to increase the
3 people in healthcare and advance their
4 education. So there are a thousand
5 scholarships available to SUNY and CUNY for
6 people in healthcare who want to go ahead and
7 get a further degree to support them in
8 becoming a more certified healthcare worker.
9 And that is, I believe, a lottery
10 system. So if you know somebody in the
11 healthcare industry who wants to up-skill,
12 tell them to apply right now, because that
13 lottery is open. And these are scholarships
14 to pay for these two -- it's a bachelor's and
15 I can't think of the other one, in I believe
16 nursing, so that they can increase their
17 proficiency in the field. It's really
18 important.
19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JOYNER: Okay. And can
20 we talk a little bit about the Excluded
21 Worker Program? Can you talk about the
22 implementation of the program, what fraud
23 prevention measures were taken.
24 And then we are hearing stories of
36
1 recipients who reported that their funds were
2 stolen through fraudulent withdrawals and
3 purchases. Can you speak about the steps the
4 agency has done to address these types of
5 issues?
6 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Right. So we
7 are very proud of what we did for EWF. We
8 literally had to develop an entire delivery
9 system from the ground up. We could not use
10 any of our federal resources. And it was a
11 very intense time. But we used three
12 vendors, who worked very closely with us and
13 developed a system to process these
14 applications and get the money out.
15 Built into the system was a lot of
16 fraud detection. There are a lot of
17 cross-checking, making sure that, you know,
18 the person was the person that they said they
19 were. It worked very efficiently, and we
20 were able to keep a lot of fraud out of the
21 system with a high success rate.
22 Unfortunately, there was a pretty
23 large number of incidents where people put
24 skimmer cameras in ATMs -- because you could
37
1 take out the money through an ATM in cash, or
2 you could use it at a merchant. To take it
3 out of an ATM, you had to use a pin. So they
4 put in a camera to record the person's pin,
5 and then they went in and skimmed off the
6 card.
7 When we found out about it, we
8 immediately went to the -- to law
9 enforcement, we went to Blackhawk, which was
10 the card provider, and we worked with them
11 very closely. And one of the things we had
12 to do was shut off the ability to use an ATM
13 to take out cash. It was the only way we
14 could protect this community.
15 Now, these skimmers would have skimmed
16 from anybody who used the ATM, but they were
17 set up in neighborhoods where they knew that
18 there were large populations of people who
19 were receiving EWF. It was pretty
20 cold-blooded.
21 We are working very closely with
22 Blackhawk and with law enforcement to make
23 these people whole. And, you know, anybody
24 who thinks that they have lost because of
38
1 fraudulent use needs to contact us and let us
2 know.
3 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JOYNER: Okay. My last
4 couple of questions are regarding Article VII
5 language that's also in the budget. There's
6 language about noncompete agreements for
7 employees. Can you talk a little bit about
8 why this was included? This has never been
9 proposed before.
10 COMMISSIONER REARDON: So this is
11 something that we've worked on for a number
12 of years, and for a variety of reasons it
13 didn't reach the top of the pile.
14 Noncompete agreements are really
15 damaging to workers because -- originally,
16 noncompete agreements were for people who
17 worked in pretty highly paid positions and
18 they had access to internal information that
19 would have been damaging if they could take
20 that information from -- the recipe for
21 Coca-Cola. If you could take that to Pepsi,
22 that would be a trade secret, and they didn't
23 want you to be able to go to a competitive
24 employer for a period of time.
39
1 Unfortunately, noncompete now is used
2 for low-wage workers. We hear of people
3 working in pizza stores, in bakeries, in
4 florists. And it says that you can't take
5 the skill that you've learned in that shop
6 and go to work for a competitor. That's
7 crazy. They don't have any trade secrets.
8 It's simply a way of controlling the
9 employee.
10 And the secret to noncompetes is that
11 for high earners, they're pretty
12 unenforceable, but for low-wage earners they
13 can't afford to go to court, hire a lawyer
14 and fight it. So it really depresses their
15 ability to go out and find a better job with
16 the skill set that they have. And that's why
17 we put it in there.
18 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JOYNER: Thank you.
20 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Madam Chair, I'm
21 sorry, you've used up your time. Thank you.
22 Before I go on, I just want to read
23 off some of the additional Senators who have
24 joined us and then give Helene a chance to do
40
1 so.
2 We have Senator Tom O'Mara, the ranker
3 on Finance; Senator Sean Ryan -- I'm not sure
4 whether I got him earlier -- Senator George
5 Borrello, Senator Brad Hoylman, Senator
6 Edward Rath, Senator Robert Jackson, Senator
7 John Liu, Senator Mario Mattera, Senator
8 Roxanne Persaud, Senator Leroy Comrie. I
9 think I've gotten everybody so far.
10 Helene, do you have any more to add
11 before I call the next Senator?
12 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: No, we are
13 up-to-date as of now. So we'll turn it back
14 to the Senate for questions.
15 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
16 Our next questioner is Senator Patrick
17 Gallivan, the ranker on the Labor Committee.
18 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Thank you,
19 Madam Chair. And Commissioner, I apologize
20 that you're seeing my photo as opposed to my
21 face; we had some technical problems this
22 morning.
23 I have questions in two particular
24 areas. The first one will continue regarding
41
1 Unemployment Insurance. So we know the
2 frustration that thousands of New Yorkers
3 experienced in reaching out to the Labor
4 Department over the past couple of years, and
5 as a result they reach out to the legislative
6 offices. And a number of my colleagues have
7 expressed the same frustration with the
8 timeliness of responses from Labor Department
9 recipients when they're making calls on
10 behalf of constituents.
11 And I do know that some of it, of
12 course, had to do with the filling of
13 positions. And I'm just wondering if you're
14 able to comment at all about prioritizing
15 contact and communication to the legislative
16 offices.
17 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Thank you for
18 that question. And we are always, you know,
19 ready, willing and able to assist our
20 legislative colleagues on issues and try to
21 be as responsive as possible.
22 Of course you realize that it's the
23 same -- these are the same people who are
24 also handling the regular benefits
42
1 distribution. That said, we are trying -- we
2 try to be on top of it as much as possible.
3 One thing I want to point out here,
4 which is different than any other time that I
5 know of in unemployment -- so during the
6 pandemic we set up six different programs,
7 and PUA, Pandemic Unemployment Assistance,
8 was one of them. And this involved over
9 1.5 million New Yorkers who otherwise would
10 never have been eligible for UI. They had no
11 experience with the system. And once their
12 benefits ended in September, if they hadn't
13 gone off them before -- all the federal
14 benefits ended in September. Some of them
15 began calling us again towards the end of the
16 year because they were again unemployed and
17 they wanted another benefit. We would
18 explain to them -- they get a letter of
19 determination, and it said you are ineligible
20 for this reason.
21 What has happened is a lot of people
22 don't understand that UI is an insurance
23 system, and in order to be eligible you have
24 to have earnings in at least five quarters --
43
1 well, at least two quarters at a certain
2 level to start a new claim. And there's a
3 very high expectation out there that UI will
4 be available regardless of your circumstance,
5 regardless of your employment, whether you're
6 an employee or not. And that -- and they
7 don't seem to be able to understand that
8 those systems have ended.
9 Our unemployment level is now down to
10 what it was before the pandemic, but our
11 phone traffic is seven times as high as it
12 was under normal unemployment. So there's a
13 very difficult mismatch going on here.
14 SENATOR GALLIVAN: Well, understood,
15 and appreciate that. But of course it spills
16 over. A lot of the executive branch, the
17 services, the frustrations from the members
18 of the public spill over to our offices. So
19 we do appreciate the communication and just,
20 you know, hope that we can ensure that that
21 communication with our offices on behalf of
22 constituents is timely.
23 The other area has to do with
24 workforce development. So in the allocation
44
1 for workforce development, is any of those
2 monies going towards workforce development in
3 the area of e-commerce? So what I'm hearing
4 from employers, both mid-level and large
5 employers, is that they're trying to identify
6 people -- and the people who are coming to
7 them don't have the skills that they need or
8 they haven't developed the skills that they
9 need in this day and age with the internet,
10 e-commerce, social media and things of that
11 nature.
12 So the specific question, is any of
13 the monies designated for workforce
14 development in that area of e-commerce? And
15 then, in a broad sense, have you recognized
16 that? Is that something that you're going to
17 be trying to do something about?
18 COMMISSIONER REARDON: You are singing
19 my song, thank you very much. This is -- we
20 are very aware that technical skills, basic
21 computer use, literacy, software proficiency,
22 mechanical engineering skills -- these are
23 very high demands, and many workers don't
24 have them. So we are very focused on it.
45
1 As I said earlier, I think, we offer
2 Coursera licenses for free to our UI
3 customers, and they can actually get a great
4 deal of that technical training online from
5 Coursera. And I have a number of
6 testimonials from UI customers who have taken
7 the courses and are now in very good jobs.
8 So we are very, very focused on that.
9 We're talking today on Zoom, and we
10 have to assume, while we will be begin to
11 gather together as we used to, this will
12 never go away. E-commerce will never go
13 away. Our world is much more technical than
14 it was even two years ago, and we need to
15 ensure that our workforce has the skills that
16 they need.
17 So we are working very closely with
18 schools, with BOCES, K-12, SUNY and CUNY,
19 with all of our business partners to ensure
20 that we can give them, the businesses, the
21 workers they need and give the workers the
22 skills that they demand. It's a very, very
23 high demand and we are very excited to be
24 able to roll out new programs.
46
1 So thank you for asking me about that.
2 It is top of the list.
3 SENATOR GALLIVAN: That's good to
4 hear. And just perhaps a suggestion to the
5 extent that you can -- and you may have
6 already done so -- if you can impress this
7 upon the Economic Development Councils,
8 because that seems to be a group of people
9 across the state that could help out with
10 this.
11 Thank you for your time.
12 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Thank you.
13 Thanks for asking that.
14 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
15 Assemblywoman Weinstein.
16 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: We go to
17 Assemblyman Ra, the ranker on Ways and Means,
18 for five minutes.
19 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Thank you, Chair.
20 Commissioner, good morning.
21 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Good morning.
22 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: I just want to go
23 back for a moment to the UI, you know, the
24 $9.5 billion that's owed. And you may have
47
1 seen, recently they came out with, I guess,
2 new guidance from the Treasury Department
3 regarding utilizing the American Recovery
4 Plan funds, saying that if we made some type
5 of deposit from that prior to -- well, not
6 even a deposit, but committed funds prior to
7 April 1st, it does not commit us to a
8 maintenance of effort.
9 Is there any consideration being given
10 to doing that?
11 COMMISSIONER REARDON: So I know that
12 the Governor has looked at all of these
13 issues deeply, and we've all been in
14 discussion about it.
15 This -- you know, these are federal
16 funds that are available to the state. And
17 the Governor has the luxury of having money
18 coming in, but also the problem of many, many
19 pots of need. So she's had to look at
20 where -- you know, it looks like a lot of
21 money until you start to distribute it, and
22 there's a lot of need everywhere in the
23 state.
24 I know that she's looked at this very
48
1 closely. We have not made any decisions at
2 this point, but we continue to work it. But
3 I will say again, this is really -- the
4 federal government needs to step in and help.
5 We are not the only state in this situation.
6 And there are other states with much higher
7 debt than New York State, which is tragic.
8 So, you know, we're working with our
9 partners and we hope that the federal
10 government can step in and help all of the
11 states in this situation.
12 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Thank you.
13 The other thing I wanted to get into a
14 little bit was the HERO Act and the
15 implementation. Just wondering how
16 compliance has been going. Do we know of any
17 businesses that have been fined or warned
18 about complying with these new standards?
19 COMMISSIONER REARDON: So we are
20 definitely out working with our business
21 community. As soon as the Hero Act went into
22 effect, we were doing that. We were handling
23 COVID complaints before that. I think I said
24 we had 53,000 COVID complaints during the
49
1 pandemic that we resolved, or reports on
2 resolving.
3 One of the things about the HERO Act,
4 interestingly, because of the decision on the
5 OSHA regulations, the federal OSHA
6 regulations actually has made it more
7 straightforward for us. So, you know, we are
8 out working every day with our businesses and
9 workers. It's up on the website, I think we
10 just put up a new set of more detailed
11 guidelines. But we are working very closely.
12 And we take it very seriously. As long as
13 the pandemic rages, we have to protect our
14 workers and the businesses and the people who
15 come in.
16 I don't have an exact number -- excuse
17 me, breaking news. We have 657 HERO
18 complaints. And usually what we do is we
19 work to get them into compliance.
20 If, you know, the local municipal or
21 county departments of health get involved,
22 they may have stiffer applications, and so we
23 try to get the business to come into
24 compliance, because that's the best thing for
50
1 everybody. And it's pretty straightforward.
2 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: To that end, in terms
3 of compliance, do you know, have businesses
4 expressed, you know, any concerns or
5 difficulty paying for, you know, any of the
6 things they need to do within their business
7 to come into compliance?
8 COMMISSIONER REARDON: I have not
9 heard specific financial complaints. I'm
10 sure some people do. You know, particularly
11 smaller -- it may create, you know, more of a
12 burden.
13 But, you know, people throughout the
14 pandemic have had to adjust to the hand
15 sanitizers, the masks, you know, ensuring
16 that there's ventilation. And I have not
17 heard a lot of specific complaints about
18 that.
19 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Great. Thank you,
20 Commissioner.
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
22 Chair Weinstein, back to you.
23 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: We have been
24 joined by Assemblywoman Hyndman, and we are
51
1 going to Assemblyman DeStefano.
2 ASSEMBLYMAN DeSTEFANO: Thank you,
3 Chair Weinstein. I wanted to thank everyone
4 for being here. We know how important this
5 is to our governmental employees community.
6 Commissioner, thank you for your time.
7 I just have a few questions.
8 Although New York's economy seems to
9 be recovering from the revenue loss due to
10 the pandemic shutdowns, New York employment
11 has failed to recover as quickly. New York
12 is ranked 49th in the nation, only ahead of
13 Hawaii, and its job growth rate recovery is
14 horrible. The nation has seen 98 percent of
15 its jobs regained, but in New York only
16 8 percent of the jobs lost have been
17 regained.
18 What do you think the problem with
19 that is? New York City is, you know,
20 8 percent in unemployment. What do you
21 attribute that to?
22 COMMISSIONER REARDON: So there are a
23 couple of things. We -- the private-sector
24 jobs in New York State, we lost 1.9 million
52
1 private-sector jobs between February and
2 April of 2020. Sixty-five percent of those
3 jobs have been recovered as of December 2021.
4 So I think it's a mistake to say that
5 we have not recovered jobs. New York City
6 specifically is lagging in reemploying
7 people, but think about the economy of
8 New York City. Businesses are not fully back
9 in Midtown New York. That impacts every
10 business that touches them. Taxis, subways,
11 clothing stores, pharmacies, restaurants,
12 newsstands -- everybody that depends on those
13 workers can't go fully back to work because
14 their customers are not there.
15 But also New York City is very
16 dependent on tourism, Broadway,
17 entertainment. Now, Broadway opened -- this
18 is my world -- Broadway opened with a bang,
19 shows were selling out. Omicron came, now
20 shows are going on hiatus, they have to close
21 for a couple of days because the cast is out
22 with COVID.
23 It creates an unstable environment,
24 and they cannot bring back -- specifically in
53
1 the hospitality area, hotels and restaurants,
2 they can't fully staff up if they don't know
3 they're going to have people coming in to
4 spend their dollars in their restaurant or
5 their hotel. So that's part of -- that's a
6 big part of the problem.
7 As Omicron continues to decline,
8 fingers crossed, we will begin to see a
9 stabilization of this, and the tourism will
10 again begin to come back. You know, tourists
11 were in New York City until Omicron, and then
12 it began to kind of crater.
13 As this goes down, we are hopeful that
14 these jobs will return, the hotels will
15 reopen, the restaurants will be full,
16 Broadway will be selling out, and it will be
17 a vibrant economy again. But until that
18 happens, we have a bit of a deficit.
19 ASSEMBLYMAN DeSTEFANO: Would you
20 agree that we're coming out of the pandemic?
21 Would that be fair to say, that we're coming
22 out of it?
23 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Well, I'm not a
24 public health official, so I would not want
54
1 to be the person that says that.
2 I did see today that the positivity
3 rate in New York City is dramatically lower.
4 That's a very good sign. And, you know, I
5 think we have to wait and see how these
6 numbers continue to trend down. If they
7 continue to trend down, I know that people
8 will feel more safe.
9 Look, New York City has a very high
10 vaccination rate, so it is essentially a much
11 safer city to be in anyway. But now we need
12 to make sure that Omicron continues to
13 decline so people have that kind of security
14 to come back and do the things they love in
15 our state.
16 ASSEMBLYMAN DeSTEFANO: What are we
17 doing to prepare our youth or our younger
18 generation? You've been working with the
19 Education Department on recruiting to try and
20 get people into the workforce? I'm not so
21 sure the city is ever going to rebound to
22 where it was pre-pandemic. But, you know, we
23 are getting a lot of people going through
24 college and trade schools. What are we doing
55
1 to try to address their needs of getting them
2 into the workforce?
3 COMMISSIONER REARDON: So this is a
4 great question. It's something I really
5 think about a lot.
6 I think we really make a mistake as a
7 society -- not just me at DOL or you in your
8 position -- but as a society we tend to think
9 about talking to young people about career
10 paths after they've finished high school and
11 sometimes after they've finished college.
12 It's way too late to have that conversation.
13 We need to be engaged with young
14 people in fifth grade, sixth grade, seventh
15 grade. I was an actor and I was an actor
16 because when I was 14 years old, I was
17 fortunate enough to be able to work with
18 adults in adult theater. And it changed my
19 world. Those things are so impactful. We
20 need to make sure that young people are
21 exposed to these opportunities.
22 I always challenge people, and I do
23 this challenge myself: Think about the young
24 people in your world, either your children or
56
1 your neighbor's or whoever the kids are
2 around you. I challenge all of us, reach out
3 to those young people personally and talk to
4 them about how you got where you are and what
5 that was like and what it is you do and what
6 kind of adventures you've had. Because kids
7 only see a certain slice of the world, and
8 they don't know everything that's available.
9 We want the world open to them.
10 ASSEMBLYMAN DeSTEFANO: Commissioner,
11 I've got a few seconds. You just described
12 the last week of -- this past week, that's
13 what I was doing for all the school districts
14 in my community. So thank you.
15 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Thank you.
16 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you,
17 Assembly.
18 Next up is the ranker for Finance,
19 Senator Tom O'Mara.
20 (Pause.)
21 SENATOR O'MARA: I got it now, sorry.
22 I just stepped away for a second. I thought
23 Senator Harckham was going to go before me.
24 But thank you, Chairwoman.
57
1 Thank you, Commissioner, for being
2 with us today.
3 Just a couple of questions, one on the
4 Unemployment Insurance debt that is owed to
5 the federal government. Where does that
6 stand at today, and what efforts are we
7 making to pay that down?
8 COMMISSIONER REARDON: It's
9 $9.6 billion. It's a staggering amount of
10 money. It is not the highest amount owed by
11 a state -- we're fourth, I think. And we're
12 also one of the largest employee states, so
13 you can put it into context.
14 There is an entire regulation about
15 how this gets repaid. There's federal
16 language and state language. And I won't
17 walk you through all of it, because it's very
18 complicated. It was part of UI reform after
19 the last recession, so it's a whole way to
20 deal with it.
21 It's paid out over a number of years.
22 The number I think from 2009, when we came
23 out of the last recession -- we did not fully
24 come out of that recession for -- I think it
58
1 was actually eight years --
2 SENATOR O'MARA: What are we doing
3 today to make an effort to pay that down?
4 Because we have --
5 COMMISSIONER REARDON: We are in
6 conversations with our partners in the
7 federal government. New York is one of the
8 states that signed onto a letter to Janet
9 Yellin, at the Treasury, urging her to use
10 her authority to forgive at least some of
11 this debt.
12 And, you know, I know that the
13 Governor has been very engaged with
14 government partners trying to figure out
15 other ways to alleviate at least some of
16 this, because, you know, nobody had any --
17 (Zoom interruption.)
18 SENATOR O'MARA: What is the impact of
19 that on the unemployment insurance
20 ratepayers --
21 (Zoom interruption.)
22 SENATOR O'MARA: Somebody's got to
23 mute sorry. I'm not sure who it is.
24 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Took care of it,
59
1 Tom, sorry.
2 SENATOR O'MARA: Okay. Sorry for that
3 Commissioner.
4 What is the impact to unemployment
5 insurance payers now, the businesses, because
6 of that debt?
7 COMMISSIONER REARDON: So there is a
8 rate schedule. Because of my order in 2021,
9 no one was charged their experience rating --
10 that's the number of people that go on
11 unemployment. You get a certain rating for
12 that.
13 SENATOR O'MARA: Right.
14 COMMISSIONER REARDON: It was flat for
15 everybody for the entire year, because nobody
16 had any control over it.
17 The experience rating started --
18 restarted this year. The rate that they got
19 for this year reflects last year's
20 experience. So there's a small increase for
21 everybody because of the debt -- it's not
22 huge, but it does not have any experience
23 rating. So there will actually be some
24 people who will get bills this year that may
60
1 actually be lower than last year.
2 Next year is when you will begin to
3 see the experience rating added onto it. So
4 we have a year's leeway to continue to work
5 this problem.
6 SENATOR O'MARA: Okay. With regards
7 to those that received benefits, through no
8 fault of their own, but are being told now
9 they shouldn't have received them -- I know
10 you addressed this a little bit earlier. The
11 federal government is -- I think part of the
12 question to you was the federal government is
13 somehow waiving those, repayment of those?
14 What's New York State doing with that?
15 COMMISSIONER REARDON: The federal
16 government is -- they said you can waive it.
17 They have not instituted a blanket waiver.
18 There is some action afoot to have a federal
19 blanket waiver of these no-fault-of-your-own
20 problems. It would be a great solution,
21 frankly.
22 New York State is -- we have developed
23 our own -- they allowed us to develop a
24 waiver system. So we are developing it, we
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1 are rolling it out this quarter. It is an IT
2 solution. We don't want anybody to have to
3 put anything on paper. We're going to do,
4 you know, a back-and-forth with digital
5 technology and they can send us their
6 information and then the waiver will be
7 decided.
8 It's basically decided on grounds of
9 equity and good conscience. So it's a pretty
10 easy waiver to get. And it will be rolling
11 out this quarter -- we're not doing all of
12 them at once because it would be a very large
13 number. We're going to do them in chunks so
14 that we can maintain a --
15 SENATOR O'MARA: Some people have
16 received letters saying they have to pay it
17 back at this point, correct?
18 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Yes. And there
19 are some people who do have to pay it back.
20 I mean, there are people --
21 SENATOR O'MARA: Yeah, I got it.
22 Yeah, I'm sure there will be, and I'm sure
23 there should be.
24 But as far as those who through no
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1 fault of their own -- are they getting any
2 notice at this point that there might be a
3 waiver process for them or --
4 COMMISSIONER REARDON: We're working
5 on this --
6 SENATOR O'MARA: -- are they just
7 worried about this collection letter they
8 got?
9 COMMISSIONER REARDON: No. I believe
10 we have sent notice about this, but don't --
11 I don't want to say for sure. Let me find
12 out exactly what we've done. Because we now
13 believe that we have to overcommunicate with
14 everybody, so we're doing our level best to
15 make sure we get these messages out.
16 As I said earlier, last week we sent
17 out over 3 million emails and 2 million text
18 messages to customers about various programs.
19 So we constantly communicate with our
20 customers. But let me find out exactly what
21 we've sent to them.
22 SENATOR O'MARA: And in regards to
23 that $9 billion federal debt, you said it's
24 very minimal to the employer for that. But
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1 what do you consider minimal?
2 COMMISSIONER REARDON: No, I -- I
3 mean, eventually, if nothing is done and
4 every employer has to help pay back their
5 share, it will be an increase. Let's be very
6 real about it.
7 But this year it is not a major
8 impact, because some of that's not going to
9 happen until next year. I'm not saying it's
10 minimal; there will be an increase for
11 everyone. But --
12 SENATOR O'MARA: Well, I am receiving
13 complaints from businesses that their rates
14 went up significantly. They're not really
15 sure what it's due to.
16 COMMISSIONER REARDON: The rates went
17 up because there was legislation that was
18 passed after the UI reform, frankly, to
19 stabilize the system after the last
20 recession. And there's a program by which it
21 has to be dealt with. It's an algorithm.
22 And so there's a certain amount that has to
23 go up to cover it.
24 It's not covering the whole debt. The
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1 cost of the debt is spread out over years.
2 There's no way we could repay it in, you
3 know, even five years. So it's going to be
4 spread out as much as we can.
5 SENATOR O'MARA: Okay, my time's up.
6 Thank you.
7 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Thank you.
8 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you, Tom.
9 Chair Weinstein.
10 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: We go to
11 Assemblyman Jacobson for three minutes.
12 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: Thank you,
13 Madam Chair.
14 And thank you, Commissioner, for
15 testifying. I've got to talk quickly because
16 I only get three minutes, and your answers
17 have to be short.
18 The budget contains funding for the
19 Workforce Development Institute, which
20 facilitates the building trades
21 apprenticeship programs. Last September you
22 stated it's not the policy of the Department
23 of Labor to refer interested workers to local
24 trades apprenticeship programs or the
65
1 Workforce Development Institute, because they
2 only train workers for available jobs.
3 This is simply not the case.
4 Carpenters Local 279 has a new facility near
5 the Town of Newburgh which you visited. They
6 host a monthly open house meeting to attract
7 new workers to their program.
8 The building trades are actively
9 looking for new apprentices every day. There
10 is an even greater need now that we have the
11 federal infrastructure law, which will
12 finance thousands of projects here in the
13 state.
14 Have you already or do you intend to
15 change the Department of Labor's policy with
16 regard to referring interested workers to
17 these apprenticeships?
18 COMMISSIONER REARDON: I think there
19 was a misunderstanding about what I was
20 saying or what you intended me to answer.
21 We certainly tell all of our customers
22 about registered apprenticeship programs, as
23 well as all other training providers that we
24 cover. But we can't place them in an
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1 apprenticeship --
2 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: No, I'm not
3 asking that. You refer them, though, right?
4 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Yes.
5 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: That's fine.
6 Good. I'm happy.
7 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Yup. We've
8 always done that.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: Very quickly.
10 I'm happy, that's fine.
11 All right. Will the Department of
12 Labor change its policy with respect to
13 one-stop Career Centers and stop requiring
14 referrals from the Unemployment Office or
15 others in order to help people?
16 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Any New Yorker
17 can use the services of the Career Centers
18 and the workforce development part of the
19 Department of Labor. There's no restriction.
20 Currently we serve over 5,000 people a
21 week individually, whether it's on a webinar
22 or an individual appointment. We have not
23 fully opened the Career Centers so you can
24 just walk in because of COVID concerns --
67
1 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: I want to ask
2 you about that. That's my next question,
3 Commissioner.
4 During the pandemic New Yorkers lost
5 confidence in the Department of Labor after
6 their online and telephone systems -- after
7 your online and telephone systems collapsed
8 when thousands of residents tried to obtain
9 unemployment insurance. And yet when the
10 Department of Labor -- when the one-stops
11 have it in a county-owned facility, they take
12 people in.
13 When the Department of Labor is the
14 one that's leasing or renting the facility,
15 they are not taking it in. That's what
16 happens in Poughkeepsie. But in Orange
17 County and Goshen, they take it in, but not
18 in Newburgh, where the Department of Labor is
19 the tenant.
20 So this makes no sense. People don't
21 have confidence. They need help. If they
22 were very good online and being able to do it
23 on their own, they would be able to get the
24 jobs. You've got to open it up. Open it up
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1 so that you can help people so they have
2 confidence.
3 COMMISSIONER REARDON: As I said
4 before, if somebody would like a one-on-one
5 appointment with one of our career
6 counselors, we can certainly set that up.
7 But -- and I'm not sure about county
8 to county how various facilities are open.
9 That doesn't track with me. But certainly if
10 somebody wants to have a one-on-one
11 appointment with one of our career
12 counselors, we will set that up.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: If somebody
14 walks into a one-stop shop, can they get
15 treated --
16 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: No. Helene, I
17 think we need to finish this conversation.
18 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Assemblyman
19 Jacobson, we can maybe have an offline
20 follow-up on that.
21 So we're going to go now to the
22 Senate.
23 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you. I'm
24 sorry, we just have to be very strict today.
69
1 And we skipped over by mistake, and I
2 apologize, Senator Pete Harckham. So I'm
3 going to Senator Harckham next.
4 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Thank you,
5 Madam Chair. No trouble at all. Always
6 happy to yield to the ranker.
7 Good morning, Commissioner.
8 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Good morning.
9 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Always great to see
10 you. Thank you to you and your team for all
11 the long hours these last two years.
12 I want to switch gears a little bit to
13 speak about power plant decommissioning labor
14 issues. The CLCPA sets very strict goals
15 about decommissioning our power system.
16 That's going to mean closing fossil fuel
17 power plants in the next 10 years.
18 As you know, I have Indian Point in my
19 district. It was a nuclear facility, but
20 same thing, decommissioning. Some of the
21 workers were able to move over with Holtec,
22 but we still have a lot of workers who are
23 highly skilled, well-paid union workers who
24 are looking to make a transition someplace.
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1 So specifically about Indian Point,
2 but also on the broader picture about where
3 we're going over the next 10 years, what are
4 the state's plans to, as we say in the
5 just-transition language of the CLCPA, find
6 equally high-paying work for some of these
7 folks who are going to be negatively impacted
8 as we decarbonize the grid?
9 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Great question.
10 I have the honor of being the cochair, with
11 Doreen Harris, of the Just Transition Working
12 Group, and our charge is to do just that, to
13 help transition workers from fossil fuel jobs
14 to the green energy sector.
15 We just finished a huge jobs study
16 that gives us an eye into the jobs of the
17 future. And we're looking at -- you know, as
18 you know, there's triage: Somebody who needs
19 the job within the next year or so, what's
20 their advantage; somebody who has enough time
21 to do some up-skilling for a job that will be
22 ready in two years; and then somebody, a
23 young worker, who can retrain and do a job
24 further in the future. We're looking at all
71
1 of that.
2 As you know, we've worked very closely
3 for -- since I came in as commissioner,
4 frankly, with Indian Point to help the
5 workers that are there. And the triage was
6 done -- you look at who's ready to retire,
7 who's in the middle of their career, and who
8 really is very young in their career and can
9 make different decisions.
10 It is complicated, but these are
11 highly skilled workers, and their skills are
12 needed. And one of the great things that
13 we've found in the jobs study is that in the
14 green energy sector, there's actually job
15 growth. And it's job growth at a good wage.
16 So we are able to sit down with workers and
17 say, you know, with a certain amount of
18 training, you can --
19 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Commissioner, I'm
20 sorry, I've got one more question and I've
21 only got a few seconds left.
22 One, if you could share the jobs study
23 with the chairs of the two finance committees
24 to get to us, that would be great.
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1 The other is really more of a comment.
2 I have some small businesses in my district
3 who have had a number of fraudulent
4 unemployment claims made against them. And
5 obviously when they're contacted, they need
6 to reach out to your office. And every time
7 it's to a different person, and so they start
8 from zero to reexplain their life story every
9 single time. And what they've asked is if
10 they could have the equivalent of a
11 caseworker, one person be assigned to them
12 who knows the history of what they're going
13 through.
14 I think it would also be, from a
15 management standpoint, easier for your
16 workers and it would certainly be more
17 customer-friendly. Thank you so much.
18 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Thank you.
19 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: We've been
20 joined by Assemblyman Aubry, and we go to
21 Assemblywoman Simon.
22 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: Thank you.
23 Thank you, Commissioner. It's great to see
24 you today.
73
1 And I have a number of questions; some
2 of them are tough ones. So I'll list my
3 questions, because I want to make sure they
4 get addressed. We talked a little bit about
5 this ID.me. I know Senator Ramos asked some
6 questions. But I think really what we need
7 is a solution. I know, because your
8 executive commissioner called me back, that
9 this is -- it catches a lot of fraud but it
10 also has created a lot of problems.
11 So I think we need to get commitment
12 from the DOL to create alternatives, such as
13 an in-person identity verification option
14 where claimants can receive, in their primary
15 language, with only a reasonable wait time.
16 You know, we have had people who have been
17 waiting for months and months and months,
18 people for whom their unemployment claims
19 were denied on an alleged failure to
20 cooperate, and it wasn't a failure to
21 cooperate. So that's a huge issue.
22 We're still getting the same problems
23 with people not getting called back or not
24 getting through, calling and calling and
74
1 calling. DOL calls them, doesn't leave a
2 name or a number, so then they call back, go
3 back into some, you know, circular queue that
4 is very, very frustrating to people.
5 And then the issue of teachers and
6 substitutes. That has been a problem, where
7 the teachers were not able to get a
8 reasonable assurance of further employment,
9 and those benefits are now being clawed back.
10 That is a big problem for a lot of people in
11 my district. And we'd like DOL to consider
12 withdrawing those ineligibility notices and
13 overpayment charges.
14 Right now, you know, our constituents
15 can't get through to DOL and they can't get
16 their benefits, but DOL is spending a lot of
17 time trying to claw back payments from people
18 who -- from whom they shouldn't.
19 Employees -- independent contractors
20 like Uber not paying into the system. The
21 courts have found that they're employees.
22 And then the other thing is noncompetes, and
23 why we might not just ban noncompetes, like
24 California has done. Because even a
75
1 middle-income person without income for a
2 year is really going to be very damaged.
3 So if you could address those
4 questions, I'd appreciate it. And you have
5 50 seconds.
6 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: You have 45
7 seconds.
8 (Laughter.)
9 COMMISSIONER REARDON: I made notes.
10 Okay, as far as Uber and the
11 reasonable assurance, those are both in
12 litigation so I really can't comment on them.
13 I think noncompetes are a terrible,
14 terrible flaw in the system. I support
15 getting rid of them altogether, but let's see
16 what happens.
17 ID.me, it's a solution that we have.
18 We are looking for other technology, but we
19 have to be able to ensure that we know who
20 people are.
21 And the whole thing about people
22 calling and calling -- as I said earlier, our
23 UI numbers are down to before pandemic
24 levels, but our call volume is still seven
76
1 times higher. So people are calling for all
2 kinds of reasons other than their benefit,
3 and it really clogs up the system.
4 We do call back. We leave a message
5 and say, you know, I'm going to call you
6 tomorrow between this time and this time, and
7 then inevitably what happens, if the claimant
8 doesn't answer, we can't leave a specific
9 number. We're not set up that way.
10 But I would urge people, if you are
11 told that we're going to call you, pick up
12 the phone.
13 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you,
14 Commissioner.
15 We go to the Senate.
16 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you very
17 much. Our next Senator is Sean Ryan.
18 SENATOR RYAN: Thank you very much,
19 Chair Krueger.
20 Good to see you, Commissioner.
21 I just wanted to quickly jump on the
22 unemployment bandwagon. You know, we know
23 there's still problems. We know you folks
24 are working hard. But I just -- you know,
77
1 just got done working with somebody from the
2 Ford Stamping Plant here in Buffalo, a UAW
3 member. It took nine months for her to get
4 her unemployment. It was really because she
5 was super-tenacious. But a lot of the times
6 they asked her to call back, you're not
7 allowed to answer your phone on the factory
8 floor. So she kept going back and forth and
9 back and forth. And then we finally got
10 somebody to call her during a break period.
11 But I'm really worried that if people
12 don't have the same tenacity that she had,
13 they'd walk -- they're just going to walk on
14 their benefits and lose faith in the state.
15 So I would ask you to keep tinkering with it
16 and keep working hard and make sure that we
17 don't allow the harder-to-reach people to
18 fall through the cracks.
19 And on the noncompete agreements, you
20 know, I agree with you on that, I think it's
21 good -- I believe your Article VII limits it
22 to people who make under a certain income
23 level, is that accurate?
24 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Yes, and the
78
1 thinking on that is that people over a
2 certain income level have the resources to
3 pursue it in court, but low-wage workers have
4 no ability to do that.
5 You know, if I'm a professional
6 person, they're very unenforceable. So, you
7 know, employers put them in, but very few of
8 them get enforced for high-wage people.
9 Low-wage people don't have those resources.
10 SENATOR RYAN: Yeah. So I -- well, I
11 definitely agree with that, it could
12 disproportionately affect you based on your
13 income. But if you look at the effect on the
14 economy, you know, as a whole, even though we
15 know they're usually not enforceable, no
16 employer wants to hire you if you go to an
17 interview and say: I'm under a noncompete,
18 and you might face litigation.
19 And then the answer is it probably
20 won't be enforceable, but if you have two
21 candidates of equal qualifications, and one
22 doesn't have that hanging over their head,
23 you know, it's a clog in our economy that we
24 need to get rid of. And as you know, it puts
79
1 downward pressure on wages in all sectors,
2 and it really reduces employees' earning
3 power.
4 So I'd like to continue chatting with
5 you and, you know, working with you on this,
6 you know, noncompete agreements. We've seen
7 them grow over the years, right? It used to
8 be just you're a scientist, you're a
9 specialist, now it's just -- it's everyone.
10 It's an adhesion clause. It's like you're
11 signing your HR benefits.
12 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Yeah. I always
13 say, you know, I'm happy to enforce the laws
14 that you pass. And if that's one of them, we
15 will enforce it.
16 SENATOR RYAN: That's great. Thank
17 you very much, Commissioner.
18 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you,
19 Senator Ryan.
20 Chair Weinstein.
21 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: We go to
22 Assemblywoman Griffin, three minutes. For
23 question and answer.
24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GRIFFIN: Yes. Thank
80
1 you, Chairs.
2 And thank you, Commissioner Reardon.
3 I appreciate all of the work of you and your
4 team.
5 I have a couple of questions that I'll
6 get to fit in. First, I have a couple of
7 constituents -- and I'm sure there's many
8 more -- who were victims of fraud. And this
9 might have been early on, where this
10 fraudulent recipient got DOL to deposit three
11 payments into their account. And then we've
12 called up -- you know, my staff has called
13 up, they find out they had to send in
14 paperwork. But this person is now told that
15 DOL cannot get back any money that's been
16 deposited fraudulently, so this person has to
17 contact those banks himself where it was
18 deposited. And there doesn't seem to be --
19 he's not told of a way that he's ever going
20 to made whole. There is a hotline number,
21 but there is no human he can speak to.
22 So for people that are really dealing
23 with these arduous situations, what is
24 something better that can be done to help
81
1 them?
2 COMMISSIONER REARDON: So the fraud
3 issue in UI is horrific. And at one point we
4 discovered that cybercriminals had figured
5 out how to get in the front door of the
6 system and then use a bot to switch the
7 banking deposit from my bank to their bank.
8 And this went on for not a very long period
9 of time, but long enough for it to severely
10 impact those people.
11 We managed to stop it, and we followed
12 up on all of it. But it is a significant
13 problem. I can't comment on an individual
14 case. But certainly I'd be very happy to
15 have a conversation with you offline about,
16 you know, the banking issues. They're
17 complex because of banking regulations.
18 But the bank fraud was horrible.
19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GRIFFIN: Okay, so I'll
20 contact you offline about that.
21 And then if a person -- like the
22 clawback, if someone got benefits that they
23 shouldn't have received but through no fault
24 of their own, if they apply for a waiver and
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1 it gets denied -- because maybe they didn't
2 fill it out right or they didn't explain it
3 right or DOL just said no, this doesn't
4 qualify, is there a process where they can
5 appeal that in some way?
6 COMMISSIONER REARDON: I would imagine
7 so, because we pretty much always have those
8 kinds of processes. I don't know exactly
9 what it is, but I'd be surprised if we didn't
10 have it.
11 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GRIFFIN: Okay. And
12 then for small businesses that right now some
13 of them may have seen an increase, even if
14 small -- maybe next year they'll see a higher
15 increase -- is there any process that they
16 could, you know, speak to someone at DOL to
17 discuss like their inability to pay this,
18 like that maybe they're going to go out of
19 business in order to pay?
20 COMMISSIONER REARDON: We have -- you
21 know, we have business advocates here that
22 they can certainly discuss their issues with
23 and try to figure out some way to prevent
24 them from going under, absolutely.
83
1 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GRIFFIN: Are those
2 numbers available to them, or are they
3 available to us and --
4 COMMISSIONER REARDON: I think they
5 may be on the website, but let me check. It
6 should be on the website.
7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GRIFFIN: Okay, thank
8 you very much. I appreciate your help.
9 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Okay, to the
10 Senate.
11 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you very
12 much.
13 Senator Shelley Mayer.
14 SENATOR MAYER: Hi, Commissioner.
15 Nice to see you. Good morning.
16 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Thank you.
17 SENATOR MAYER: Just quickly on the
18 unemployment issue, is the claim center now
19 being managed by New York State, your
20 employees, or is it subcontracted?
21 COMMISSIONER REARDON: The claim
22 center -- you mean the telephone claim
23 center.
24 SENATOR MAYER: Yes.
84
1 COMMISSIONER REARDON: We are
2 currently staffed with New York State
3 employees. The third-party call centers are
4 no longer in existence.
5 SENATOR MAYER: Okay. And did the
6 department ask the Governor for additional
7 staff, given the volume of calls you just
8 described as being so high?
9 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Yes. And I'm
10 very, very thankful that Governor Hochul, one
11 of the first things she did when she came in
12 is she lifted the hiring freeze, so we have
13 been hiring at a pretty rapid clip. And it's
14 impactful -- across the agency, not just in
15 the TCC.
16 SENATOR MAYER: Yeah, but I would just
17 say I know last week I sent to your office
18 directly, and this is January of 2022,
19 another four people who couldn't get through
20 on the phone who, as my colleagues have said,
21 have had to come to us to get to you. And
22 with your help, they do get a call back.
23 But I would urge that you actually
24 hire more people directly into the call
85
1 center. That is the problem our constituents
2 are having. They cannot get through.
3 COMMISSIONER REARDON: One of the
4 problems is that when we hire someone to work
5 in the call center, they then have to be
6 trained. As you know --
7 SENATOR MAYER: Understood.
8 Understood. How many additional people did
9 you hire since Governor Hochul came in?
10 COMMISSIONER REARDON: I don't know
11 overall. I think in the UI system it's over
12 200, but I'd have to find out the
13 specifics.
14 SENATOR MAYER: Okay. I think that we
15 all would care deeply about knowing exactly
16 how many additional employees there are and
17 urge you to hire more, because it --
18 So secondly, on the gun violence
19 prevention initiative you described earlier,
20 Commissioner, how many individuals are
21 currently in training outside of New York
22 City in these programs?
23 COMMISSIONER REARDON: This is in all
24 the local workforce development boards?
86
1 SENATOR MAYER: Yes.
2 COMMISSIONER REARDON: I don't know
3 the aggregate number. I can get you the
4 number, I know we have it, but I don't have
5 it right in front of me. Let me see if --
6 SENATOR MAYER: And do you know how
7 many are placed in jobs?
8 COMMISSIONER REARDON: No. I can get
9 you those numbers.
10 SENATOR MAYER: And how much money was
11 allocated for this program?
12 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Well, for the
13 entire gun violence program, it was about
14 30 million overall. That included, I think,
15 hiring the violence interrupters as well as
16 the training providers. So I can get you the
17 breakdown.
18 SENATOR MAYER: I think given the
19 current moment we're in, it would be helpful
20 to have a report on how effective this
21 program has been to date and whether this
22 approach -- which, you know, we're very
23 supportive of -- works the way it is set up.
24 And particularly going through the workforce
87
1 development boards, whether that's the
2 optimal way.
3 And I would ask that the department
4 provide us some additional data on that.
5 COMMISSIONER REARDON: I will say that
6 the workforce development boards have been
7 pretty hands-on with this, because they are
8 hyper-local and these are not New York City,
9 they're smaller.
10 But I want to remind all of us, this
11 is a very difficult community to help. If it
12 were as simple as getting somebody a job, we
13 wouldn't have these problems.
14 SENATOR MAYER: We totally get that.
15 Thank you. Thank you very much.
16 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Assemblyman
17 Bronson.
18 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: Thank you,
19 Chair Weinstein. And Commissioner, great to
20 see you, albeit via Zoom.
21 As chair of Economic Development, one
22 of our highest priorities in the committee is
23 to ensure that we have an economic recovery
24 that is equitable and inclusive. We know
88
1 that after the Great Recession, New York did
2 not fare very well in an inclusive economy.
3 And the COVID-19 pandemic has made the
4 situation even worse, with a disproportional
5 impact on unskilled labor force, women,
6 underserved and other marginalized
7 communities which have historically been left
8 on the economic sidelines.
9 What I'd like to know is in this
10 budget and through the strategies of your
11 department, what steps are we taking in
12 workforce development programs or otherwise
13 that will ensure that New York's economic
14 recovery is one that's equitable and
15 inclusive?
16 COMMISSIONER REARDON: So this is a
17 really top-of-mind issue for our workforce
18 development people. And you're right, we
19 have gone through other recovery periods --
20 we as a state, we as a country -- and we have
21 not been able to be as inclusive as we should
22 be.
23 We make sure that we spread a wide
24 net. We want to make sure that everybody
89
1 knows about our services. We work very
2 closely with not-for-profits that work with
3 underserved communities to make sure that
4 they come to us for our services, because a
5 lot of times they don't even know that they
6 can.
7 We work with groups like
8 Nontraditional Employment for Women, for
9 instance, to help women understand that there
10 are careers for them in the construction
11 trades.
12 There are lots of other programs like
13 that that we work with. We work with the
14 schools, with BOCES. Because we understand
15 that it's not enough for people who have
16 access to succeed, the state really doesn't
17 succeed till everybody has access. And it's
18 not an easy thing to do. It takes
19 repetition. You do it and do it, and then
20 you do it again. I always tell people you
21 want to make sure that when that worker opens
22 the door to that career, they see themselves
23 reflected inside. Because if they do,
24 they're going to go in and engage. And
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1 often, they don't.
2 So we have to make sure that -- I
3 always say, you know, if you're going to do a
4 career development thing, bring diverse
5 people with you. Bring young people. Bring
6 -- if you're going to a young group of
7 African-American women, bring an
8 African-American woman with you who's doing
9 that work, because they want to know they can
10 succeed.
11 And, you know, I know that from my own
12 experience as a woman in my job search
13 throughout my life, and it's true of
14 everybody. We can never let up. There's
15 never enough. But it is really critical to
16 the success of the entire state that
17 everybody is successful, because otherwise we
18 end up with pockets of need. We don't want
19 those. We want everybody to be able to have
20 a good life and a career that they love.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: Well, thank you,
22 Commissioner. I look forward to working with
23 you as we develop strategies and plans so
24 that everyone can participate fully in our
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1 economy. Thank you, Commissioner.
2 COMMISSIONER REARDON: You're a great
3 partner. Thank you.
4 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you --
5 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: We go to the
6 Senate.
7 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
8 Senator Robert Jackson.
9 SENATOR JACKSON: Commissioner, good
10 afternoon.
11 COMMISSIONER REARDON: My Senator.
12 SENATOR JACKSON: A couple of quick
13 questions. I only have two minutes and 55
14 seconds.
15 So the Executive Budget proposes
16 11.4 billion for the Department of Labor, a
17 decrease of 52.8 million. And that is
18 because, I would assume, of the federal
19 government funds. But my question to you is
20 saying that the calls that you're receiving
21 is so dramatic and like seven times the
22 volume, that you need more staff. Have you
23 laid off staff, or are you going to shift
24 staff from one area to another to deal with
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1 all of the calls coming in?
2 Can you just --
3 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Well, you know,
4 we have not -- we have staffed up. We have
5 not laid off staff at all.
6 And I have to say during the pandemic
7 every available employee in the Department of
8 Labor was retrained to answer UI calls. It
9 was a phenomenal effort. And they were very
10 successful, but now some of them have to go
11 back to their day jobs. You know, some of
12 them are inspectors, some of them are
13 workforce development.
14 So we are indeed staffing up. I just
15 got a note, we've hired 376 new employees and
16 we're still hiring. So it's going on as we
17 speak.
18 You know, the need is great. The good
19 news is the UI rate is steadily falling. The
20 number of calls is really because a lot of
21 our customers don't understand the program,
22 and frankly some of them are answer-shopping.
23 You probably know there's a lot of anger out
24 in the world today, and if you give them an
93
1 answer they don't like, they call you back.
2 And we're trying to find ways to abate that.
3 We do a tremendous amount of
4 messaging.
5 SENATOR JACKSON: All right, I
6 appreciate that. But those people that have
7 been after money that they're entitled to and
8 it's been delayed, delayed, delayed, it's not
9 helping them, especially when their rent's
10 due, and food on the table and things like
11 that. So we need to focus on that so people
12 that are entitled to what they're supposed to
13 get, get it.
14 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Yes.
15 SENATOR JACKSON: And my second
16 question is, how much interest will
17 ultimately have to be paid to the federal
18 government as a result of the state borrowing
19 $90 billion in UI insurance loans? And how
20 long do you anticipate that this is going to
21 take to come back?
22 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Yeah, it's
23 9 billion. I don't know what the interest
24 rate is, frankly.
94
1 SENATOR JACKSON: Okay.
2 COMMISSIONER REARDON: It's big.
3 SENATOR JACKSON: What's the time
4 frame? Ten years, 15 years, five years,
5 what?
6 COMMISSIONER REARDON: It depends on
7 the amount of money that's owed and how the
8 money is -- you know, how each employer pays
9 into it. It will be a long time. It won't
10 -- I mean, we don't want it to be a short
11 time, because that means that the rate would
12 be very high for every employer. We want to
13 stretch it out as long as possible.
14 SENATOR JACKSON: I totally agree with
15 you.
16 So members have mentioned that federal
17 waiver for UI for payments where the
18 claimants were not at fault. How many waiver
19 requests from the Department of Labor did
20 they receive, and how many waivers have been
21 granted and under what circumstances?
22 COMMISSIONER REARDON: I don't have
23 that number. We do have some waivers that
24 have already gone out. But as I said
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1 earlier, the bulk of the waivers are going to
2 be going out this quarter.
3 We had 4.8 million people in the
4 system. I don't know how many people would
5 get a waiver. Certainly nowhere near that
6 number. I don't actually know the number of
7 people.
8 SENATOR JACKSON: Okay, thank you. My
9 time is up. If you can get those answers,
10 I'd appreciate it very much.
11 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Certainly.
12 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you both.
13 Assemblywoman.
14 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Yes. Hi,
15 commissioner. So I think I'm the only one
16 left in the Assembly to ask a question,
17 because we have a number of Senators, for a
18 change. It's normally the Assembly.
19 But I have a question really on behalf
20 of one of my colleagues who isn't a member of
21 one of these committees. And I was wondering
22 if you have thoughts on the proposal of
23 housing a new office of workforce development
24 within ESD. And have there been discussions
96
1 yet about how DOL would interact with the
2 office and whether ESD would then be
3 overseeing any of the Department of Labor
4 workforce development programs?
5 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Great
6 questions.
7 So we're really excited at this new
8 office because we work closely with ESD, but
9 this actually facilitates us being even
10 closer and more in lockstep.
11 The federal programs that the DOL
12 oversees, EO and things like that, they would
13 stay in the DOL. The workforce development
14 piece of it for ESD would be very specific
15 and probably oriented I think towards the
16 REDC process.
17 But that said, we are already deep in
18 discussions. It's an exciting opportunity.
19 And, you know, we have been charging -- as
20 you know, because we worked on the REDCs
21 together -- they were charged to have
22 workforce development language in their plans
23 over the last five years. It's been an
24 evolving conversation. Now we can really
97
1 have a crisp, articulated plan for each
2 council. And that's a great opportunity.
3 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Great, thank
4 you. Thank you for that.
5 And I'm going to turn it back over to
6 Senator Krueger. And I'll only interrupt if
7 we have any Assemblymembers looking to ask a
8 question.
9 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: It's a deal.
10 Thank you, Helene.
11 Our next question is Senator Borrello.
12 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you,
13 Madam Chair.
14 Thank you, Commissioner, for being
15 here. I do have a question.
16 You know, as you might be aware, I'm a
17 business owner myself. And with all due
18 respect, I have to take a little exception
19 when you use the word "we" about paying it
20 back, this $9 billion. There is no we. It's
21 the business owners of New York State that
22 are going to bear that burden. And I think
23 it's important that everybody understands
24 that. This is not a state-subsidized event,
98
1 this is going to be borne on the backs of
2 every single employer in New York State, and
3 to the tune of $9 billion plus interest.
4 So with that, my question to you is
5 how much of that $9 billion can be attributed
6 to unemployment insurance fraud?
7 COMMISSIONER REARDON: I don't have a
8 number. It's certainly not 9 billion. We
9 prevented 36 billion from going out the door.
10 I don't have a hard number for how much
11 actually was committed.
12 But remember that we are constantly
13 clawing back monies. We use federal
14 resources -- the FBI, Secret Service, all of
15 that. Banks. So we are constantly getting
16 some of the money -- we'll never recover all
17 of it, obviously, but we are constantly
18 getting some of that money, and so the number
19 changes. But it's certainly nowhere near the
20 9 billion.
21 SENATOR BORRELLO: Well, but we don't
22 really know what the number is. I know the
23 State of California has identified their
24 number; I think it was around 16 billion.
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1 How do we know where we are?
2 COMMISSIONER REARDON: So I asked my
3 folks at UI yesterday because I knew this
4 question was going to come up, and one of the
5 problems is each state defines unemployment
6 insurance fraud a little differently, so
7 there's not one definition that is
8 countrywide. There's a lot of variance in
9 there. And that's why I'm reluctant to give
10 you a number, because I don't actually know
11 what it is yet.
12 I appreciate that California --
13 California's fraud was so bad they literally
14 had to shut down their system for three days
15 so they could stabilize it and reopen again.
16 That never happened to us, thank God.
17 SENATOR BORRELLO: All right. Well,
18 along the lines of fraud I can tell you --
19 again, as a business owner -- you know, we
20 had a lot of people that applied for
21 unemployment and were given unemployment --
22 basically they quit their job and collected
23 unemployment. You know, you would not allow
24 us to ask why -- they would tell you why, but
100
1 we weren't as employers allowed to ask why
2 they quit their job and were still eligible
3 for unemployment. And most of the time we
4 heard it was because they feared catching
5 COVID. Although I can tell you as a
6 restaurant owner that we had restaurant
7 employees that quit their jobs, collected
8 unemployment assumedly because they feared
9 catching COVID, and then they would actually
10 show up to eat and drink at our restaurant.
11 So I don't really think that the fear
12 of catching COVID -- it was that extra
13 federal incentive is really what it was.
14 But with that being said, can you
15 still quit your job in New York State and
16 collect unemployment to this day?
17 COMMISSIONER REARDON: No.
18 SENATOR BORRELLO: So you cannot use
19 fear of catching COVID right now.
20 COMMISSIONER REARDON: I'm sorry, yes.
21 If you are --
22 SENATOR BORRELLO: Okay, yes, you can.
23 COMMISSIONER REARDON: A legitimate
24 reason to be afraid of catching COVID in your
101
1 workplace, that is a reason for leaving your
2 employment.
3 However, in order to be eligible to
4 collect benefits in general, you cannot walk
5 away from your job.
6 SENATOR BORRELLO: Well, with all due
7 respect, again, I think having an
8 unemployment insurance claim denied is
9 like -- you have a better chance of being
10 struck by lightning right now.
11 I think it will be important that we
12 actually have follow-up on these folks that
13 still claim that they have a fear of catching
14 COVID, and they are still quitting their
15 jobs. That's why we have a workforce issue
16 right now in New York State, a big part of
17 that.
18 So -- but I appreciate what you're
19 doing to try and fight back on that. Thank
20 you.
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
22 Our next questioner is Senator
23 Hoylman. (Pause.)
24 Senator Hoylman, are you there?
102
1 (No response.)
2 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: I think perhaps
3 he's on a call or something, so we're going
4 to go back to him.
5 Senator Gounardes.
6 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Great. Thank you
7 very much, Senator Krueger.
8 Hello, Commissioner Reardon. Great to
9 see you.
10 I have two things I wanted to touch
11 on. Number one, you know, really glad to see
12 the push on NDAs and really glad to hear the
13 way you're talking about it.
14 I think there's another issue that
15 needs to be discussed that I'd love to see
16 you also get behind, and that is the issue of
17 using no-rehire clauses in settlement
18 agreements, which have become de facto
19 noncompete clauses. So when someone files a
20 case of discrimination or harassment and then
21 they settle before going to court, they are
22 often told they can never apply for a job in
23 that company ever again.
24 And this is happening time and time
103
1 again. You can imagine the consequences of
2 this when you're dealing with multinational
3 corporations. If you're a bank teller at
4 Chase and then you want to apply for another
5 bank teller job at Chase, you can be
6 prohibited from doing that if you were ever
7 the victim of harassment or discrimination.
8 So just as forcefully as you are
9 talking about NDAs, I would really encourage
10 you and like to see you get behind an effort
11 to ban no-rehire clauses as well. I have
12 legislation with Assemblywoman Cruz to do
13 just that that happens to be moving through
14 our respective chambers.
15 But I really want to switch to some
16 questioning now, and I want to talk about the
17 Public Employee Health and Safety Bureau
18 within your department. And I was wondering
19 if you could tell us how many complaints has
20 the bureau received over the last year or two
21 since the COVID pandemic has begun? If you
22 have that information.
23 COMMISSIONER REARDON: I'm looking at
24 my cheat sheet. I know that we handled
104
1 53,200 COVID complaints. But I'm not sure
2 that that was specifically the public
3 employee -- I think that was the regular
4 worker protection side.
5 Specifically public employee
6 complaints? I don't actually have a number
7 for that. I can find it for you.
8 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Great. And would
9 you happen to know or could you find out how
10 many site visits you've made or the bureau
11 has made to public agencies since the start
12 of the pandemic, for inspections?
13 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Sure. Yup.
14 SENATOR GOUNARDES: One of the things,
15 you know, we passed two years ago was we
16 passed a law requiring all public employers
17 to develop and deploy pandemic response plans
18 that take into account the health and safety
19 of their workforce. And in my former
20 capacity as chair of the Civil Service
21 Committee, we heard from multiple employees
22 at multiple levels of government that plans
23 were either not developed, they were not
24 followed, they were not consulted, and there
105
1 were still significant health and safety
2 concerns from public employees at state
3 agencies, city agencies, county agencies,
4 et cetera.
5 Your bureau was not tasked with
6 enforcing that law, but clearly you have
7 jurisdiction over those same matters. So
8 would love to get, you know, more details
9 from you as to how many visits were made, how
10 many complaints were received and resolved,
11 how many actions were taken against, you
12 know, workplaces that were not complying with
13 the law, and see if we can't help make these
14 workplaces safer for our public sector.
15 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Sure. Happy to
16 do it.
17 SENATOR GOUNARDES: Great. That's all
18 I have for you. Thank you very much.
19 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you. I
20 think Senator Hoylman has rejoined us.
21 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Yes, thank you,
22 Madam Chair. Thank you.
23 Good afternoon -- good morning, I
24 guess -- oh, afternoon, Commissioner. Nice
106
1 to see you, as always.
2 As you know very well, when
3 performance venues closed during COVID-19,
4 performers and crews relied on unemployment
5 insurance benefits to get by. And thankfully
6 many of them were able to go back to work
7 when the venues opened what turns out to be
8 temporarily this fall, only to be unemployed
9 again when the venues closed due to the
10 Omicron surge.
11 Unfortunately, it seems, Commissioner,
12 due to the unemployment eligibility rules,
13 performers and crew who have been unemployed
14 due to the recent surge have been denied
15 benefits because to qualify for unemployment
16 benefits, a recipient must have earned,
17 quote, wages in at least two of the four
18 calendar quarters that make up the base
19 period, unquote -- and, quote, at least $2700
20 in the highest-paid quarter of the base
21 period.
22 So I was wondering, given the
23 realities of the pandemic, the opening and
24 closing aspects of it that we've seen so far,
107
1 is there anything we can do to allow
2 performers and crew members across the state
3 to access unemployment insurance? Is this
4 something that's at the state level? Is it a
5 federal regulation that we can push for, if
6 not?
7 COMMISSIONER REARDON: This is, of
8 course, near and dear to my heart because
9 these are my colleagues. And I've been
10 frankly worried knowing that this probably
11 would happen.
12 Right now they are ineligible, and I
13 have to say they are not the only employees
14 following -- there are a lot of people in the
15 hospitality industry who have been employed
16 and then unemployed and they've never been
17 able to build up enough earnings to start a
18 new claim.
19 So it's hard to think about doing it
20 for -- I don't think we could do it for one
21 specific group, we'd have to do it across the
22 spectrum of unemployment insurance.
23 There's a mix of federal and state
24 regulations in play here. I can talk to you
108
1 in more detail about it. But it is -- it's
2 frankly one of the reasons people call us so
3 much, because they don't understand the
4 system.
5 Before the pandemic, UI was something
6 that helped you when you lost your job. You
7 rarely were on it for the full 26 weeks. Now
8 people have run through not only the original
9 claim but all of the federal extensions.
10 There's nothing left in their claim to
11 access, and they have to start a new claim.
12 And that is difficult.
13 I -- right now --
14 SENATOR HOYLMAN: What are we doing,
15 Commissioner -- and I appreciate that it does
16 span across industries. What are we doing to
17 address it? Anything? In a federal
18 initiative, are we reaching out to our
19 federal partners? Or can the state do
20 something?
21 COMMISSIONER REARDON: I'd have to
22 look into the regs. I don't think it's
23 strictly up to the state, but I'll find out.
24 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Okay. It's
109
1 obviously enormously pressing. As you can
2 imagine, in my district in Manhattan,
3 representing a large number of performers and
4 folks in the hospitality industry, there
5 isn't a more pressing issue at the moment.
6 So thank you for your attention to it.
7 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Thanks.
8 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
9 Senator Rath.
10 SENATOR RATH: Thank you, Madam Chair.
11 And thank you very much,
12 Commissioner Reardon, for being with us
13 today. And I know we're asking you a lot of
14 questions, so we appreciate it.
15 My first question is a little bit of a
16 specific follow-up on what you've been
17 talking about with regards to workforce
18 development and workforce training. And when
19 we have our students in high school, there
20 are many clear pathways to college, but there
21 are not clear pathways to careers. And I
22 think that this is something that we need to
23 focus on and prioritize, because we're seeing
24 very empty workforce pipelines and we're
110
1 seeing major skills gaps at thousands of
2 companies across New York State.
3 So my first question has to do with
4 what's being done with regards to the Career
5 and Technical Education programs at BOCES?
6 Because there are CTE programs that partner
7 with high schools, and many employers want to
8 see students coming out of high schools with
9 very specific skills that they can be
10 utilized right into the workforce.
11 COMMISSIONER REARDON: So I love
12 BOCES. It is a woefully underused part of
13 the educational system. And I wish that they
14 were more supported unilaterally. I think
15 this is actually more a question for
16 Education than for DOL, because we don't
17 really -- you know, we don't have any impact
18 on their funding and their course offering.
19 But I will tell you that they are very, very
20 valuable.
21 And there's a shocking statistic: Two
22 out of three New York jobs require some
23 post-secondary credential. Right now,
24 2.4 million New Yorkers between the ages of
111
1 25 and 44 have no post-secondary degree or
2 credential, so they're not eligible.
3 We need to make sure that we get
4 people to understand that training is about
5 your future and that training in BOCES is
6 incredibly impactful. And, you know, we --
7 it's a couple of things. It's making sure
8 that young people in high school and middle
9 school understand those pathways, but it's
10 also once you graduate from secondary school
11 that you can continue to learn. You can go
12 back and get a credential, you can go back
13 and an apprenticeship. You can go back to
14 college. We are in an era of lifelong
15 learning. Nobody is going to get one degree
16 and never go back to school again. BOCES is
17 an incredible part of this.
18 But I urge you to talk to my friends
19 at Education, because they have more
20 attachment to it than I do. I love it.
21 SENATOR RATH: I understand your point
22 about SED, there's no question about it. I
23 do believe, though, that Labor can support
24 more workforce pathways through CTE and
112
1 partnering with SED. Because again, we hear
2 from thousands of employers who are saying we
3 have major, major skills gaps right now, and
4 I think BOCES is an important pathway with
5 Labor partnering with SED.
6 COMMISSIONER REARDON: And we do
7 partner with them. I mean, I -- it's one of
8 the things I like, actually, about the new
9 workforce and economic development office, is
10 that it gives us more impact in all of those
11 areas.
12 You and I could talk about this for a
13 long time, I promise you.
14 SENATOR RATH: And I'd love to have a
15 follow-up conversation, because I think it's
16 important, not only for -- I want for
17 everyone to be aware of what's going on and
18 the opportunities that do reside. This is a
19 a 21st-century opportunity for our children.
20 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Yes. Thank
21 you.
22 SENATOR RATH: Thank you,
23 Commissioner.
24 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you. Thank
113
1 you, Senator Rath.
2 Senator Rath, I would urge you to also
3 talk to your community colleges, because I
4 think that's also a ripe location for
5 coordinating with workforce development.
6 I think I'm next on the list. I just
7 have two short questions --
8 (Loud unidentified sigh.)
9 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: I'm sorry? I'll
10 call on you next, Senator Serino.
11 (Laughter.)
12 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Sorry. I'm
13 sorry, Commissioner Reardon. I know a number
14 of people raised the ID.me issues, but I have
15 an additional one that my constituents have
16 brought to my attention.
17 So you go to ID.me and you're opening
18 an account and it's asking you all this
19 confidential information, your Social
20 Security number and everything else about
21 yourself. But then if you go to the top on
22 the first option -- and you'd be likely to
23 press it, because it says ID.me, even though
24 it says in tiny letters "Shop" -- suddenly
114
1 you're on a shopping network. And my
2 constituents are concerned that they're
3 giving all their private information to
4 somebody who's actually some kind of retailer
5 trying to suck them into buying things.
6 And I get, I guess, that companies can
7 have multiple functions on the same website.
8 But perhaps could we get them to -- since I
9 assume you're paying them a decent amount of
10 money for this service, can they at least
11 remove their shopping network website from
12 the ID for DOL website?
13 COMMISSIONER REARDON: This is news to
14 me. I have not seen that. And they -- it's
15 interesting. So when we -- when we send
16 somebody to ID.me, they get an individual
17 link to follow. So they may be on a
18 general -- they may have gone -- they may
19 have heard about ID.me and gone to their
20 general website. But if they get the
21 individual link, I don't believe that
22 button's on it. So I think that might be
23 part of the problem.
24 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Maybe. I guess
115
1 I'd have to try to set up an account to test
2 that out. But constituents brought it to my
3 attention, so I do believe they were somehow
4 getting to this.
5 COMMISSIONER REARDON: And that's odd.
6 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: And they're
7 concerned about it. And I thought that that
8 was legitimate, because when I went on ID.me,
9 that's where I landed also, at the shopping
10 choices.
11 COMMISSIONER REARDON: (Inaudible.)
12 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Yes. All right.
13 So if you would please take a look at that.
14 Then you've heard lots of concerns
15 about people not getting back to you when you
16 call, and we go back and forth on that. I'm
17 concerned that this year, instead of
18 automatically mailing the 1099G tax form to
19 everyone who received benefits from DOL,
20 you're telling people through your website
21 they need to reach out to you to request the
22 form, and an option is by phone.
23 And again, I think everything else
24 I've ever dealt with where tax forms are
116
1 needed, it's required that the entity
2 creating the tax form has to send it out,
3 rather than you knowing you need to get
4 something from DOL, then actually getting
5 through to DOL, then getting the form from
6 DOL and then filing it with your taxes.
7 So can you explain why you changed
8 your policy?
9 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Sure. So this
10 past year we have over 2 million people who
11 are eligible to download a 1099G. It's a
12 huge volume. And we wanted to make sure we
13 could get them out. We don't print them,
14 it's printed by a sister agency. It's a
15 complicated dance.
16 We checked with all of our legal
17 people to make sure that was lawful; it is.
18 And we have sent out individual
19 communications, got delivery and texts to
20 every single person. It's also in their
21 personal account for their benefit account.
22 Everybody knows about it. And it's fully
23 automated. They can do it online, and it's
24 pretty simple, you follow the link and it
117
1 takes you to the download.
2 If you want a snail-mail version, you
3 call. But the call is automated. All you do
4 is call and leave your information on the
5 automated system, and that's collected and
6 then it's mailed out.
7 We sent out the information last week.
8 We already have over -- I think a million
9 people have already downloaded them, so about
10 half of them have already done it within the
11 space of like one week. So it's working
12 pretty well. And I've told them to keep an
13 eye out and see if there are any -- if for
14 any reason it stalls, then we should actually
15 pay attention to this.
16 Last year we actually had the same
17 system. The number of snail mails was small,
18 but it was 4 million people in the system, so
19 small is a relative number. But it's there,
20 and it is automated. They don't have to talk
21 to anybody. There's a dedicated phone number
22 to automatically say "Send it to me in the
23 mail."
24 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Okay, so they're
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1 not just going into the same phone system
2 with everyone else.
3 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Oh, God, no.
4 We don't.
5 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you. That
6 was it for me.
7 And now Senator Sue Serino.
8 SENATOR SERINO: Thank you, Senator
9 Krueger. And I have to apologize, I didn't
10 know my volume was on. I hopped off a
11 meeting, because I thought I was next. So
12 sorry about that.
13 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: No problem.
14 SENATOR SERINO: Thank you,
15 Commissioner.
16 As you know, the Department of Labor
17 Wage Board recently endorsed the proposal to
18 lower the overtime threshold for agricultural
19 businesses from 60 hours to 40 hours a week.
20 It's a move that a number of small farmers
21 and farmworkers have been vehemently opposed
22 to. And I'm sure you're aware that farming
23 is not a 9-to-5 job, and this move was just
24 one more blow to the hardworking New Yorkers
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1 who have dedicated their lives to feeding our
2 families.
3 And given the crisis that our farms
4 are facing right now and the rising costs
5 that we're seeing on food across the board,
6 do you think this was the right move? And as
7 commissioner, are you considering modifying
8 or rejecting the Wage Board's decision?
9 COMMISSIONER REARDON: So I know that
10 the vote was taken on -- I believe it was
11 Friday evening. And they are writing up a
12 full report, which I will receive in a timely
13 manner, I don't know what the time span is.
14 And then I have 45 days to consider it.
15 So I'm not at liberty right now to
16 tell you what I'm going to do because I
17 haven't read the report.
18 I know that this is of great concern
19 to the workers as well as to the employers,
20 and I look forward to reading the report from
21 the Wage Board.
22 SENATOR SERINO: Thank you. I
23 appreciate that.
24 And my next question is, you know, I
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1 recently met with a group of parents whose
2 children receive special education services,
3 and they made it clear to me that the state
4 is not doing nearly enough to ensure that
5 kids like theirs have access to work
6 opportunities when they complete their
7 education. I heard story after story.
8 What would you say to these parents
9 who want to see their children be able to
10 reach their full potential and take on the
11 employment that they need to live
12 independently?
13 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Great question.
14 And I spoke to a committee in January
15 about -- or last year, I think, on the
16 workforce of this community, of these
17 communities.
18 We are part of a very large network of
19 state agencies, federal agencies,
20 not-for-profits who are all engaged in
21 ensuring that people who have either -- you
22 know, have some kind of disability are able
23 to get a job -- get trained for a job, get a
24 job, hold the job, and be treated well in the
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1 job.
2 And we make sure that our services are
3 available to everybody who comes in virtually
4 at this moment to our Career Centers. That
5 includes people with disabilities. Our
6 career centers all have adaptive technology,
7 and all of our staff are trained on it. And
8 we make sure that everybody is engaged where
9 they are. We don't meet somebody with an
10 expectation -- you do this or you do that --
11 we do an assessment of each individual and
12 understand where they are in their life, in
13 their education, in their workforce aptitude,
14 in their resume world, and then try to find
15 an appropriate situation for them. And that
16 includes people with disabilities.
17 I know it's difficult. You know, it's
18 a difficult problem to deal with writ large.
19 But we are part of a large network, and we
20 are very engaged. And if there's more that
21 we can do, please let us know. Because as I
22 say, everybody needs to be successful, not
23 just the ones with access.
24 SENATOR SERINO: Yeah, I've heard from
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1 many, many parents about this, so I
2 appreciate anything that we can do moving
3 forward. And I'd like to maybe follow up
4 with a conversation with you afterwards.
5 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
6 I believe you have an additional
7 Assemblywoman, Assemblywoman Weinstein. I
8 see Assemblywoman Reyes with her hand up.
9 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Yes, I see
10 Assemblywoman Reyes has raised her hand to
11 speak, so I'm going to call on her.
12 And we also were joined a little while
13 ago by Assemblywoman Cook.
14 Karines, the floor is yours for three
15 minutes.
16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN REYES: Thank you,
17 Madam Chairs. Thank you, Commissioner.
18 I have some questions related to the
19 New York HERO Act and its enforcement. Just
20 wondering how many cases related to COVID
21 safety have come into the DOL, and how has
22 the DOL been addressing these cases
23 currently? And then what are some of the
24 protocols for investigating complaints?
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1 COMMISSIONER REARDON: So we've
2 handled over 53,000 COVID complaints. That
3 was from the beginning of the pandemic.
4 That's not specifically HERO. The way that
5 we dealt with it was by a compliance model,
6 to make sure that the employer understood the
7 requirements, what they needed to provide to
8 keep a safe workplace for their workers. And
9 an overwhelming majority of them complied.
10 I mean, to be clear, particularly
11 early on in the pandemic, it was confusing.
12 people really didn't know what they were
13 supposed to do.
14 The HERO Act really clarifies that you
15 have to have a safety protocol for your
16 workplace, you have to have it publicly
17 available to your workers. And so we go
18 through their workplace plan and make sure
19 that it's everything that it needs to be and
20 make sure that it's clearly communicated with
21 the workers so that they can feel safe in
22 their workplace.
23 It is still a compliance model. It's
24 the best way to get things done. We don't
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1 really want to fine people, we want them to
2 be able to keep their workplace safe. That's
3 really the focus of doing this.
4 ASSEMBLYWOMAN REYES: The Governor in
5 her Executive Budget did allocate
6 12.5 million for the modernization of DOL.
7 How is DOL planning on spending this
8 additional 12.5 million that has been
9 committed by the Governor?
10 COMMISSIONER REARDON: I'm trying to
11 think what the $12.5 million is.
12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN REYES: It was
13 $12.5 million for enforcement under policies
14 that we had passed, like the New York HERO
15 Act.
16 COMMISSIONER REARDON: So I'm not --
17 you know, I don't know of a $12.5 million
18 budget piece, so let me find out. I mean,
19 we -- as I said, the Governor lifted the
20 hiring freeze, so we are hiring across the
21 board, including in worker protection.
22 Just a little caveat, when you hire
23 somebody as an inspector, it takes a little
24 while to train them up to the job, because
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1 it's very specific. But they are coming in
2 and going to work.
3 But let me find out what the 12.5 is.
4 ASSEMBLYWOMAN REYES: And, you know,
5 part of the HERO Act was to create worker
6 committees and kind of empower workers in the
7 private sector. What has the DOL done in
8 regards to outreach and training for private
9 sector workers across the state under the
10 New York HERO Act?
11 COMMISSIONER REARDON: So we have
12 given out a lot of information about, you
13 know, the requirements, both to the employers
14 and to the workers. I don't know -- I don't
15 have any numbers on how many workplaces have
16 these committees. It would be an interesting
17 number to know, I just -- nobody has told us
18 yet.
19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN REYES: Let me get in
20 one last question before my time runs out.
21 What are some of the requirements and
22 trainings for the DOL staff working on
23 New York HERO?
24 COMMISSIONER REARDON: How are they
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1 trained?
2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN REYES: Yes. Is there
3 any specific training in helping them --
4 (Overtalk.)
5 COMMISSIONER REARDON: A whole
6 training on what's in the law, the
7 regulations, what kind of requirements are in
8 the law and what they have to look for.
9 It's -- they're trained in how to look at the
10 law and then enforce it.
11 It's not -- I can get you more detail,
12 but that's pretty much what it is: This is
13 the law, this is how you enforce it.
14 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
15 We go to the Senate.
16 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
17 Senator Mario Mattera.
18 SENATOR MATTERA: Thank you,
19 Madam Chair.
20 And I just want to thank you so much,
21 Commissioner Reardon. You're doing a great
22 job. I mean, you're like answering, you
23 know, ka-pow --
24 (Laughter.)
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1 SENATOR MATTERA: And I really always
2 appreciate you and seeing you at the
3 apprenticeship dinners that we have.
4 Nothing's crazy at the dinners, but you've
5 always been there, you care about labor, and
6 I just want to say thank you so much for all
7 you do.
8 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Thank you.
9 SENATOR MATTERA: A quick question,
10 the percentage of New Yorkers unemployed
11 right now. And, you know, hopefully I'm not
12 being redundant here, but what is the
13 percentage right now of unemployed
14 New Yorkers?
15 COMMISSIONER REARDON: As of December
16 2021, statewide, it's 6.2 percent. In
17 New York City, it's 8.8 percent. So New York
18 City obviously has a higher unemployment
19 rate.
20 SENATOR MATTERA: So, you know, I know
21 enforcement is so important with everything.
22 You know, we have more jobs than there are
23 people right now that are out there. The
24 enforcement, I'm -- just please, we've got to
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1 get enforcement out there, get people -- I'm
2 not saying people don't want to go to work,
3 but it's so important, you know.
4 One thing about the trades, you know,
5 I've been there a long time, no one wants to
6 be unemployed. You know, when people aren't
7 employed, especially with Plumbers Local 200
8 and all the building trades, they're hounding
9 us, you know, especially union leaders, to
10 get everybody back out to work. They want to
11 go back to work. I just think enforcement is
12 so, so important that we need the Governor to
13 please put more money in that.
14 Like I know you're saying that we got
15 to get people trained, to get people -- let's
16 go. I understand this pandemic really hurt
17 us in a lot, a lot of ways. But you know
18 what, we've got to get our workforce back out
19 to work. And I know you're going to be doing
20 a great job with that.
21 But that percentage right now is very
22 high, Commissioner. We've got to get that
23 down. We've got to get people back out to
24 work.
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1 The last thing I want to say is these
2 bogus apprenticeship programs -- please, I
3 know you work on that. There's a lot of them
4 out there. They're falsifying the Blue Book.
5 I do do a lot of organizing, we have
6 organizers that talk to a lot of people that
7 are in these apprenticeship programs that,
8 guess what, they're not even going and
9 they're bogus.
10 So we've really got to get -- we need
11 a trained workforce, especially in the
12 construction industry. So I'm just looking
13 forward to that. I know you're going to work
14 hard with that.
15 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Thank you.
16 Yes. We have lots of regulations on the
17 registered apprenticeships. We enforce them
18 across the board, whether you're a union or a
19 nonunion provider.
20 SENATOR MATTERA: Again, I'm
21 bipartisan. But please, we've got to make
22 sure that we control that. Thank you so
23 much. And thank you for the hard work that
24 you do.
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1 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Thank you.
2 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
3 And I believe to close for the Senate
4 we have Labor Chair Senator Ramos, three
5 minutes.
6 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you.
7 So I want to kick it off, former
8 Governor Eliot Spitzer started the Joint
9 Enforcement Task Force on Employee
10 Misclassification, and the reports from that
11 task force were produced from 2008 to 2015
12 annually, but we haven't heard from them
13 since. And gig work is flourishing more than
14 ever before. Can you tell us --
15 COMMISSIONER REARDON: The joint task
16 force is really important. It's still very
17 active. In fact we just had a meeting about
18 it last week to get more people out in the
19 field again.
20 As you know, it's a joint effort
21 between various agencies, including State,
22 Tax, the Liquor Authority and --
23 SENATOR RAMOS: Right, but why isn't
24 there a report? I don't have so much time,
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1 so if you would --
2 COMMISSIONER REARDON: I don't know.
3 Let me find out. I'm surprised that they
4 stopped making the report.
5 SENATOR RAMOS: Okay. I've asked
6 about this before, and I'm going to keep
7 asking. We're out of compliance here.
8 Also, with the Postmates decision, I
9 ask you also every hearing -- you've had two
10 years to complete the audit. If it's not
11 complete, what's taking so long? The UI fund
12 is in debt. And, you know, if you're going
13 to tell me that you can't talk about the
14 Postmates decision, can you tell us at least
15 how you've taken these two years to think
16 about the future of these contributions so we
17 can bring our UI fund into financial
18 solvency?
19 Thank you.
20 COMMISSIONER REARDON: So you know I
21 can't talk about anything that's still in
22 litigation. And that includes a lot of the
23 gig questions.
24 That said, we are looking at
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1 everything with a -- you know, a magnifying
2 glass to make sure that people are making the
3 appropriate contributions, that people are
4 appropriately classified.
5 I do think that the pandemic has
6 actually had a negative impact on workers, in
7 that with the need for cash, many people
8 accept jobs without an employee status.
9 Hopefully as the pandemic abates and people
10 can get regular jobs again, that will
11 subside. But it's never a good thing when
12 that happens. It's an easy way to take
13 advantage of workers --
14 SENATOR RAMOS: Commissioner, what
15 does looking with a magnifying glass mean in
16 practice? What does that mean that the DOL
17 is actually doing to look towards future --
18 COMMISSIONER REARDON: We always do
19 audits of our employers to make sure that
20 they are meeting the requirements. And we
21 have a lot of conversations internally about
22 classification and how people fit in or not.
23 I can't say any more because of the
24 various litigations that are out there about
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1 a lot of the groups involved in this, but
2 it's certainly very high on our radar.
3 SENATOR RAMOS: All right. Thanks.
4 Senator Krueger, you're on mute.
5 SENATOR O'MARA: You're on mute, Liz.
6 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Oh, I'm so sorry.
7 Thank you very much.
8 I was saying that we've gone through
9 the questioners, so we're going to excuse
10 Commissioner Reardon. But we all know how to
11 find you, and we probably will continue to
12 find you. Thank you very much for your work.
13 COMMISSIONER REARDON: Thank you.
14 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
15 Next I'm going to call up Rebecca
16 Corso, acting commissioner, New York State
17 Department of Civil Service.
18 Are you with us, Commissioner?
19 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: I am.
20 Good afternoon.
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Good afternoon.
22 So you have up to 10 minutes to
23 summarize your testimony for us.
24 And people, please start to raise your
134
1 hands if you're going to have questions of
2 the Civil Service commissioner.
3 Thank you.
4 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: Okay.
5 Good afternoon, Chairs Krueger and Weinstein,
6 and distinguished members of the Senate
7 Finance and Assembly Ways and Means
8 Committees. My name is Rebecca Corso, and it
9 is my privilege to serve as the acting
10 commissioner for the Department of
11 Civil Service.
12 I appreciate the opportunity to appear
13 before you to comment on Governor Hochul's
14 Executive Budget for fiscal year 2023 as it
15 relates to the Department of Civil Service,
16 as well as to highlight some of our key
17 accomplishments over the past year.
18 As the central personnel agency for
19 state government, the Department of
20 Civil Service is tasked with providing
21 critical workforce management services to
22 approximately 70 New York State agencies
23 serving nearly 140,000 state employees. In
24 this capacity, the department is responsible
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1 for the administration of the civil service
2 merit system and ensuring that our partner
3 agencies have the talent to fulfill their
4 core missions and to meet high-priority
5 workforce needs.
6 Similar services and technical
7 guidance are provided to the 95 municipal
8 agencies across New York State who are
9 responsible for civil service administration
10 of approximately 360,000 local government
11 employees.
12 Over the past year, as the COVID-19
13 pandemic continued to impact us all and
14 altered the department's ability to hold
15 large-scale in-person civil service exams, we
16 worked diligently to ensure that state
17 agencies and local governments had the
18 ability to fill critical positions so that
19 there was no impact on essential services.
20 We expanded the use of online training
21 and experience examinations, as well as other
22 specialized exam holdings. In addition, the
23 department began holding virtually proctored
24 exams, which is part of a longer-term
136
1 strategy to streamline the civil service
2 examination process and reimagine and
3 modernize the department's testing program.
4 The department has been working to
5 identify space to hold in-person exams. I'm
6 happy to say that beginning in October of
7 2021, we began holding statewide in-person
8 exams, and we're increasing the number held
9 each month. While our first priority is
10 holding exams that were postponed due to the
11 COVID-19 pandemic, we've also been working
12 closely with state agencies and local
13 governments to identify their other
14 high-priority testing needs.
15 Also, to ensure the health and safety
16 of job seekers, the department implemented a
17 mandatory COVID-19 vaccination and testing
18 policy for all test takers sitting for an
19 in-person civil service exam, and is now
20 offering those approved for a reasonable
21 accommodation the opportunity to take their
22 exams virtually.
23 The department is also responsible for
24 administering New York State's occupational
137
1 health program through medical evaluation and
2 examination services for state agencies.
3 Throughout the COVID-19 pandemic, employee
4 health services clinics and nursing stations
5 continued to provide services to ensure the
6 health and safety of employees.
7 I am pleased to report that this
8 year's Executive Budget includes several new
9 state workforce initiatives aimed at ensuring
10 that New York State can continue to attract
11 the best and brightest to public service
12 careers. This includes the establishment of
13 new Department of Civil Service testing
14 centers at designated SUNY college campuses,
15 which will make it more convenient for
16 job seekers to take civil service exams
17 within their own community, connect students
18 to state government jobs, and improve overall
19 recruitment and employment opportunities for
20 diverse populations.
21 Further, through the establishment of
22 a new Test Validation & Evaluation Unit, the
23 department will be able to continually create
24 and evaluate test content to ensure that
138
1 civil service exams are maintaining the
2 highest standards of integrity and equity.
3 Additionally, the Executive Budget
4 advances several pieces of legislation that
5 will streamline hiring practices and make
6 working for New York State more accessible
7 for all New Yorkers, including individuals
8 and veterans with disabilities.
9 Under Governor Hochul's guidance and
10 leadership, and in partnership with the
11 state's chief diversity officer, the
12 department is also working at both the
13 enterprise and agency levels to strengthen
14 statewide diversity and inclusion and create
15 pathways for better incorporating equal
16 opportunity principles into the vital
17 services delivered to the public.
18 To that end, the department continues
19 to provide state agencies with tailored
20 feedback and guidance to assist in developing
21 strategic plans that identify obstacles,
22 opportunities, and innovative strategies in
23 diversity and inclusion. Focal areas include
24 outreach and recruitment, retention, policy
139
1 development, training, and trend analysis.
2 As you can imagine, these plans are
3 critically important to our shared objective
4 of meeting workforce and community needs
5 throughout the State of New York.
6 In 2021, the department also continued
7 to deliver its highly interactive implicit
8 bias training to the New York State workforce
9 and launched a new training program for
10 designees of reasonable accommodations, both
11 of which are part of our larger efforts to
12 help cultivate a more inclusive work
13 environment across state government. Since
14 its launch in late 2020, the department has
15 provided implicit bias training to over
16 21,000 participants across 30 state agencies,
17 and we will continue to expand the suite of
18 trainings available that will facilitate
19 respectful conversations and interactions
20 regarding topics related to diversity,
21 equity, and inclusion.
22 On the local government front, the
23 department reviewed more than 2,900 requests
24 from municipal civil service agencies over
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1 the past year to support the appropriateness
2 of merit system administration activities and
3 the practicability of examinations for
4 certain titles. I am pleased to report that
5 the department is close to finalizing its
6 comprehensive five-year initiative to conduct
7 technical assistance reviews for all
8 95 municipal civil service agencies.
9 Through this effort, which is
10 scheduled to be completed in mid-2022, the
11 department is taking further action to ensure
12 that all HR professionals across the
13 public-sector workforce have a solid
14 understanding of civil service
15 administration, so that we can continue to
16 improve the consistency and quality of
17 HR management across New York State.
18 In the health benefits arena, the
19 department remains focused on efficiently
20 administering the New York State Health
21 Insurance Program, also known as NYSHIP,
22 through the Empire Plan and regional HMOs,
23 all available under statute or through
24 collective bargaining to approximately
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1 1.2 million state and local government
2 employees, retirees, and their families. As
3 a part of these efforts, the department has
4 continued to offer virtual visits through the
5 Live Health Online telehealth program at no
6 cost to all Empire Plan enrollees, through
7 the duration of the COVID-19 pandemic.
8 In 2021, the department also
9 implemented several consumer-friendly
10 provisions of the Consolidated Appropriations
11 Act to enhance NYSHIP benefits to enrollees.
12 In addition, consistent with federal
13 requirements, the department acted quickly to
14 implement programs to provide vaccinations,
15 at-home COVID-19 testing kits, and access to
16 COVID-19 oral antiviral medications at no
17 cost to NYSHIP enrollees.
18 In 2022, the department will continue
19 to identify ways to improve services to
20 enrollees while protecting the state's
21 taxpayers through cost-effective management.
22 As you can see, the initiatives
23 highlighted today reflect the department's
24 commitment and focus to building back better
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1 and modernizing the state's approach to
2 meeting our workforce needs.
3 Last but certainly not least, I would
4 like to take a moment to extend my sincere
5 appreciation to all the staff at the
6 Department of Civil Service for the work that
7 they do to meet our mission of building
8 tomorrow's workforce today, and to all state
9 employees for their unwavering dedication to
10 serving their follow New Yorkers during these
11 unprecedented times.
12 I look forward to working in
13 partnership with all of you to advance a
14 shared vision for a top-tier workforce to
15 deliver critical services to New Yorkers.
16 Thank you for the opportunity to appear
17 before you today. I'm happy to address any
18 questions you may have at this time.
19 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you very
20 much, Commissioner.
21 And we're going to start ourselves off
22 with Senator Robert Jackson, chair of the
23 Civil Service Committee.
24 SENATOR JACKSON: Thank you,
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1 Chair Krueger.
2 So good afternoon, Commissioner, and
3 welcome aboard.
4 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: Thank you.
5 SENATOR JACKSON: I understand that
6 you were a deputy commissioner for several
7 years, and now you're the acting
8 commissioner?
9 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: Yes.
10 SENATOR JACKSON: I wish you much
11 success on behalf of the administration but,
12 more so, the employees that work in the State
13 of New York.
14 And my question is, I've heard that
15 attracting and retaining state employees is
16 becoming more and more difficult. What is
17 the department's position on adjusting the
18 Tier 6 pension plan to address this? Workers
19 are paying increased contributions based on
20 mandatory overtime. Others, with eight or
21 nine years of service without being vested
22 for benefits in the state plan, are leaving
23 for the private sector, who offer higher
24 salaries and immediate pensions. Not only
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1 that, I've heard from employees it's
2 terrible. It sucks, and even I heard that
3 from some of my employees that are in Tier 6.
4 Can you shed some light on this,
5 please, if you don't mind?
6 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: Sure, I'd
7 be happy to.
8 As you know, the state has a benefit
9 package that, while Tier 6 may not be as
10 robust as previous years, it's a very robust
11 benefit package for new employees coming into
12 New York State. And other parts of the
13 private sector, public sector, nonprofit
14 sectors don't have those benefits available
15 to their employees.
16 So this really truly is a good benefit
17 that we offer to our employees that we
18 continue to think is valuable.
19 SENATOR JACKSON: Well, it may be
20 valuable in some respects, but it's not
21 valuable as far as the pension is concerned.
22 And I know that. I'm a former state employee
23 myself, from 1975 to 1980, and came from the
24 City of New York. And they told me that I
145
1 could go into Tier 6, and I said huh-unh, I
2 don't want it. So I went for the deferred
3 compensation program as a result of that.
4 But my second question is, we're
5 hearing that parole officers have
6 significantly high caseloads -- in some
7 instances, a ratio of 40 to one. Now, why
8 isn't the state hiring more parole officers
9 to help these individuals transition back
10 from incarceration to communities?
11 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: As you
12 know, Governor Hochul is committed to
13 increasing the state workforce back to
14 pre-pandemic levels. So my understanding is
15 that in all areas across state agencies, that
16 they are increasing their workforce to meet
17 these critical needs.
18 So I don't specifically know, for the
19 Department of Parole, what they're doing as
20 it relates to their specific workforce, but
21 the Governor has given the authorization, has
22 eliminated the hiring freeze so that agencies
23 do have the ability to hire.
24 SENATOR JACKSON: Okay. I will follow
146
1 up on that.
2 And my next question is so I hear that
3 Part T of PPGG, employees hired under Section
4 55B and 55C of the Civil Service Law will be
5 allowed to transfer into competitive class
6 positions as long as they meet the
7 requirements for competitive examination.
8 Does this mean that they do not have
9 to take any exams or are automatically hired?
10 Or do they -- are they placed on a hiring
11 list with a certain score? Who decides which
12 55B/C employees can move into the competitive
13 class? And you can answer that specifically.
14 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: Sure.
15 So in the 55B and 55C program, the
16 state is authorized to hire 1200 individuals
17 in the 55B program, individuals with
18 disabilities, and then 500 individuals,
19 veterans with disabilities, into specific
20 jobs as long as they meet requirements in
21 terms of being able to show proof of their
22 disability.
23 And they are typically entry-level
24 jobs. And what happens is while individuals
147
1 that go into those jobs can get promoted up
2 through the particular title series in which
3 they were hired into, they don't have the
4 same ability that other competitive employees
5 do, individuals that came in through the
6 competitive track, to transfer into other
7 competitive positions at the same grade level
8 where they might have the qualifications to
9 go into those positions.
10 So what this legislation would do
11 would be allow those individuals to be able
12 to transfer. And then, in order for them to
13 continue to move up into the state service,
14 they would obviously have to take exams just
15 like everybody else does.
16 This would just essentially give them
17 the same ability and career mobility that
18 competitive employees have.
19 SENATOR JACKSON: Was there a report
20 that was due? And if so, what happened to
21 that report? Has it -- you know, why are
22 changes being made before the report is
23 issued?
24 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: I'm not
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1 sure what report you're referring to. But we
2 did not have a report as it relates to the
3 55B/C workforce due.
4 SENATOR JACKSON: I'll ask staff to
5 follow up on that with you specifically.
6 Despite severe staff shortages from
7 COVID-19 challenges, state workers have
8 successfully kept service running throughout
9 the pandemic. Yet agency workers continue to
10 see noncompetitive and exempt appointments
11 for open positions -- with knowledgeable,
12 experienced employees in the civil service
13 positions being stagnant and with limited
14 promotion opportunities.
15 Career advancement is a key factor in
16 retention. Why are we not doing more to
17 promote from within and invest in our own
18 state workforce before hiring externally?
19 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: Well, I
20 believe we are investing in our state
21 workforce. And again, you know, going back
22 to Governor Hochul's commitment to bring the
23 workforce back to pre-pandemic levels, there
24 was a hiring freeze in place for a very long
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1 time which --
2 SENATOR JACKSON: That was under a
3 previous governor, is that correct?
4 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: Under the
5 previous Governor, there was a hiring freeze
6 in place in which employees were not able to
7 be promoted.
8 Under the current Governor, the hiring
9 freeze has been eliminated, so those
10 opportunities are available.
11 And I'd just like to remind you that
12 the state workforce continues to be
13 approximately 80 percent competitive, and it
14 has been at that level for quite some time.
15 So I'm not sure -- when you are referring to
16 more people going into noncompetitive, I
17 don't see the data that supports that.
18 SENATOR JACKSON: Even under the
19 previous governor? I mean, obviously those
20 are little -- the percentages are lower than
21 competitive-class employees as far as
22 examination. But I'm saying to you, compared
23 to -- the previous governor versus the
24 commitment by this Governor to be -- open up
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1 the opportunities for state employees.
2 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: I don't
3 have the data for the previous governor. But
4 I can tell you that the current Governor is
5 committed to, you know, providing those
6 opportunities.
7 SENATOR JACKSON: I like to hear that.
8 That's good.
9 So I ask again, the Governor has
10 proposed adding, quote, unquote, fellows
11 programs to hire individuals outside of the
12 civil service system at the Office of
13 Information Technology to develop a
14 short-term, quote, unquote, SWAT team.
15 What is the department's view on this
16 proposal? And should we have any security
17 concerns that short-term, non-civil service
18 employees gain access to the state's
19 confidential IT system?
20 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: Well, I
21 would defer to the CIO regarding the security
22 of information in the IT systems.
23 But as far as the -- you know, that
24 opportunity, I think that it's just another
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1 tool in our toolbox, as the state agency, the
2 state workforce to be able to provide
3 opportunities to bring new talent, new
4 energy, new ideas into the state workforce.
5 Again, most of our workforce continues
6 to be competitive, but we want to continue to
7 bring new individuals into the state
8 workforce, and this is just another tool for
9 us to be able to do that.
10 SENATOR JACKSON: Can you, you know,
11 tell me a little bit more about the Office of
12 Diversity and Inclusion Management? And what
13 is the goal of that particular program that
14 the Executive proposed 1.6 million in new
15 funding for the creation of this particular
16 program?
17 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: Sure. So
18 the Office of Diversity and Inclusion
19 Management was actually created out of
20 Executive Order 187 from 2018. And so that
21 department was established within the
22 Department of Civil Service.
23 The funding that you're referring to
24 in the Executive Budget is not to establish
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1 that office, it's --- that is essentially to
2 move the funding out of administration and
3 line it out as a specific program within the
4 Department of Civil Service. And the reason
5 for that is because the Office of Diversity
6 and Inclusion Management is not an
7 administrative function of this department.
8 It is a program -- just like testing, just
9 like staffing, just like the employee
10 benefits division -- that provides critical,
11 critical services to state agencies in this
12 area, as it relates to diversity and
13 inclusion.
14 And so our goal is to work across
15 agencies in helping them in the development
16 of their strategic plans around diversity,
17 inclusion and equity, so they can ensure that
18 they're doing all the right things in their
19 agencies in this area.
20 It's also to provide training to those
21 agencies. As I mentioned in my remarks,
22 we've provided training, implicit bias
23 training to 21,000 employees across state
24 agencies, and we're continuing to do more.
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1 And agencies continue to be interested,
2 really interested in this training.
3 We are working on -- we do recruitment
4 and outreach across the state to identify and
5 to find talent to come into the state
6 workforce --
7 SENATOR JACKSON: Commissioner, I'm
8 sorry, I have just nine more seconds. If you
9 can tell me quickly what's the goal before we
10 move to the next questioner, if you don't
11 mind.
12 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: The goal
13 is to increase diversity and to promote
14 inclusion in the state workforce.
15 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
16 SENATOR JACKSON: Thank you,
17 Commissioner. Thank you, Madam Chair.
18 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Assembly.
19 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: We go to our
20 Government Employees chair, Assemblyman
21 Abbate, for 10 minutes.
22 ASSEMBLYMAN ABBATE: Thank you very
23 much, Helene.
24 And thank you and good afternoon,
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1 Commissioner. I was happy to hear your
2 explanation from my counterpart, Senator
3 Jackson, on the Part G Article 2 -- Article
4 VII bill.
5 But let me ask you a question on --
6 the Executive is proposing $120 million in
7 the Healthcare and Mental Hygiene Fund. I'm
8 just curious, what role would the Civil
9 Service Department be playing? And who will
10 be eligible with this fund?
11 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: Thank you
12 for your question.
13 The decision around the individuals
14 that will be eligible for that bonus will be
15 determined by the Commissioner of Health.
16 Now, our role at the Department of Civil
17 Service will be to work with the commissioner
18 to identify which titles within the state
19 workforce could be eligible for those
20 bonuses.
21 But it will be up to that commissioner
22 to determine which titles would be eligible.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN ABBATE: And, you know,
24 the Executive also recommends 20,000 new
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1 hires during this fiscal year. Do we know
2 which positions and which are the most
3 difficult to recruit, and who will be -- how
4 we'll be working to recruit those people
5 back?
6 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: Sure.
7 There's a number of areas which typically
8 tend to be difficult to recruit. Those would
9 be those in the -- nurses, you know, direct
10 care positions, and others that are more at
11 the front lines. Those tend to be our most
12 difficult positions to recruit.
13 As far as what we're going to be doing
14 to get people back, I think those healthcare
15 and mental hygiene retention bonuses get at
16 that. That's one of the reasons why the
17 Governor has included those retention bonuses
18 in the Executive Budget.
19 In addition to that, we are doing pay
20 differentials so individuals -- this year's
21 Executive Budget includes pay differentials
22 for individuals who work a day shift who are
23 not eligible to receive a pay differential
24 that other individuals who work evening or
156
1 weekend shifts are entitled to receive. So
2 if they're asked to take on a different
3 shift, they're not entitled to receive that
4 differential pay.
5 So that is also to get at how we
6 can -- how to recruit those individuals into
7 the state workforce.
8 ASSEMBLYMAN ABBATE: Sure. Okay,
9 yeah.
10 And going back to the Article VII,
11 Part T, I just wondered maybe offline we
12 could have a conversation to make sure that
13 we abide by all the, you know, statutory
14 rules, constitutional and that. But again --
15 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO:
16 Absolutely.
17 ASSEMBLYMAN ABBATE: -- we'll try to
18 do that.
19 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO:
20 Absolutely. I'd be happy to.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN ABBATE: Sure. Thank you
22 very much.
23 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Okay, back to
24 the Senate.
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1 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you very
2 much.
3 And now we have Senator Diane Savino.
4 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you, Senator
5 Krueger.
6 Thank you, Commissioner. A lot of the
7 questions I had have been covered by
8 Senator Jackson and Assemblyman Abbate, so
9 I'll just hit on a couple of points. I'll
10 ask you the same thing I've asked every
11 commissioner of Civil Service, and that is,
12 what are we doing about succession planning?
13 As you know, I heard you say that the
14 Governor, you know, is committed to
15 repopulate the agencies back to pre-pandemic
16 levels. But, you know, to quote my colleague
17 Senator Jackson, that sucks. Because we are
18 at the lowest point we've been in more than
19 30 years.
20 Just to give you a couple of
21 statistics, OCFS is 30 percent down from
22 2011, and that has a direct effect on, you
23 know, vulnerable populations.
24 We're looking at -- some of the
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1 agencies are 15 percent down, 18 percent
2 down. The Department of Transportation is 18
3 percent down from 2011. DOL, 32 percent
4 down. And we've seen the effect just this
5 year when we needed DOL at its highest point,
6 the ability to deliver unemployment insurance
7 to people in desperate need.
8 The Department of Civil Service
9 itself, 35 percent down since 2011. The
10 Department of Health down 13 percent. DOT,
11 18 percent.
12 So what are we doing to repopulate
13 these agencies back to where we were before
14 the hiring freeze went into effect? Because
15 we have an aging workforce and we have a
16 whole new set of demands and we have a whole
17 new set of skills that people need to
18 develop. So that's the first question.
19 The second thing is I notice in the
20 Governor's proposal she has a new
21 $2.2 million in funding for the creation of a
22 Test Evaluation & Validation Unit. I'm just
23 trying to figure out, what exactly are we
24 validating and evaluating with respect to the
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1 tests? What are we looking to do?
2 And I'm a 31½-year civil servant. I'm
3 a staunch defender of the civil service merit
4 system. So whatever I think people are
5 tinkering with the system, I get a little --
6 my antenna goes up.
7 So tell me, what are we trying to do
8 here? And how are we protecting and making
9 sure that the civil service merit system
10 remains what it is, which is the entry point
11 into government service and everybody, you
12 know, is able to compete fairly against their
13 peers in a blind way.
14 So those are my two questions.
15 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: So
16 absolutely. If you don't mind, I'll start
17 with that question. Because I think, you
18 know, you're saying all of the right things.
19 We want to make sure that we are maintaining
20 the integrity of the civil service system.
21 And so that's why I think that the
22 Test Evaluation & Validation Unit is really
23 important, and I think it's something we
24 absolutely should be including in the
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1 department to maintain the integrity and
2 equity in the system.
3 You know, the department has the
4 ability to look at our exams -- as we hold
5 exams, and to do sensitivity reviews and to
6 analyze the exam data after we hold an exam
7 to see how it worked with certain
8 populations, was it a good question, a bad
9 question, are we using questions that are
10 current and valid based on the careers and
11 the work that individuals are doing in
12 certain titles?
13 And we have done evaluation and
14 validation studies on a deeper level, more
15 analysis, for police and firefighter titles
16 at the local level. And we think we should
17 be doing this for all of our titles, because
18 it allows us to make sure that we are
19 updating our data, updating our exam
20 questions, and that we are making sure that
21 we're not unfairly discriminating against or
22 making it more difficult for any populations
23 to get into the state workforce.
24 So I think we should be doing this
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1 because I think it's good for diversity and
2 inclusion. And it's important for the
3 integrity of the civil service -- maintaining
4 the integrity of the civil service system.
5 As far as succession planning is
6 concerned --
7 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: You know what,
8 Commissioner, I apologize, I have to cut you
9 off even though I do think -- I'm going to
10 take a question later, and you're going to
11 answer me with the succession planning.
12 Okay?
13 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: Sounds
14 good.
15 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you, Senator
16 Krueger.
17 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: All right, thank
18 you.
19 Chair Weinstein.
20 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: We go to
21 Assemblyman DeStefano, the ranker on
22 Government Employees, and he gets five
23 minutes.
24 ASSEMBLYMAN DeSTEFANO: Thank you,
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1 Chair Weinstein.
2 A couple of questions. Regarding the
3 Governor's budget, the proposed budget of
4 reducing the corrections in the state by
5 1100, in the beginning when we were told that
6 the jails were going to be closing, it was
7 kind of implied that the officers, the
8 correction officers would not be losing their
9 jobs but they would be having a chance to
10 relocate. Has any of that been done? Or is
11 this just a blanket "we're going to lay off
12 1100 of these corrections officers"?
13 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: Well, the
14 budget does not assume laying off any
15 corrections officers.
16 ASSEMBLYMAN DeSTEFANO: It does say
17 reducing the workforce by 1100. That's what
18 I saw.
19 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: That's
20 through attrition. The assumption is there
21 will be some people that decide to retire,
22 that will decide to go on to other jobs.
23 But there is a process in place that
24 the Department of Civil Service works with
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1 the Department of Corrections and Community
2 Supervision to offer services to the
3 employees to tell them what their options
4 are, what other titles are available,
5 positions that are available that they could
6 go into. And then once they are offered
7 those opportunities, to the extent that they
8 take them, they can go into those other
9 positions.
10 But to the extent that they don't want
11 to or decide not to, then they would be
12 placed on a reemployment list for the future.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN DeSTEFANO: Do you believe
14 that number is attainable, or do you think
15 it's going to be forced?
16 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: I can't
17 comment on that. I don't --
18 ASSEMBLYMAN DeSTEFANO: Okay. Moving
19 along with -- as many people in this room
20 know, my daughter is a registered nurse. She
21 unfortunately has to relocate to another
22 state to be successful in her career.
23 My question to you is, you know,
24 pre-pandemic or even after the start of the
164
1 pandemic when we were told that if you didn't
2 vaccinate, you were going to lose your job, I
3 can remember many parades that we were having
4 around the state for the healthcare workers
5 as essential and heroes. What do you
6 think -- how do you think a majority of the
7 workforce feels knowing that a lot of them
8 have left because they were told if you
9 didn't vaccinate, you had to leave?
10 Do you see that as a problem, or is
11 that something that could be corrected?
12 What's your thoughts?
13 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: Well, I
14 can't comment on what people think about this
15 policy.
16 I do know that the Department of Civil
17 Service supports the policy for vaccination
18 across the healthcare workforce. But I can't
19 comment on how other people might feel about
20 that.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN DeSTEFANO: But earlier
22 you said that, you know, we were trying to
23 amp up the employment of our healthcare
24 workers and things like that. But by losing
165
1 them, at some point you've got to get back to
2 zero and start over again. So how do you
3 propose to get the people back to numbers
4 that were pre-pandemic because of things like
5 the mandated vaccines?
6 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: I believe
7 that's what the worker retention bonuses are
8 intended to get at.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN DeSTEFANO: But that's a
10 one-shot deal, correct?
11 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: As far as
12 I'm aware, that's a one-shot, yes.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN DeSTEFANO: Okay. So when
14 that runs out in a couple of weeks, what's to
15 incentivize them to stay?
16 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: Again,
17 going back to the fact that New York State,
18 as an employer, is a great employer to work
19 for. We have a robust benefit package that
20 employees can avail themselves of. We have a
21 retirement plan that's available to them, to
22 the extent that they want to stay in the
23 state workforce until they retire.
24 So that there are many benefits
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1 associated with being a state employee.
2 ASSEMBLYMAN DeSTEFANO: Okay. What
3 agencies do you see as getting replenished to
4 where they were pre-pandemic? Is there any
5 specific agencies that you believe will be
6 able to attain that goal?
7 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: I believe
8 that all agencies will be able to attain that
9 goal.
10 ASSEMBLYMAN DeSTEFANO: But you also
11 said that it was hard, you know, getting
12 people to come, for various reasons. What's
13 the plan? What's the plan? The
14 incentivization, that's the plan? Is that
15 it?
16 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: It's to
17 incentivize, it's to recruit, it's to go out
18 and try to encourage individuals to come into
19 the state workforce.
20 I know as far as I can speak to the
21 Department of Civil Service and what we're
22 doing is we're going to work with -- you
23 know, we're creating a partnership with SUNYs
24 and holding exams at SUNY campuses across the
167
1 state so that we can build relationships with
2 those campuses and encourage students to
3 learn about what it means to be a public
4 servant and to work for New York State and
5 opportunities that are available to them.
6 ASSEMBLYMAN DeSTEFANO: Well, as a
7 product of the civil service system myself,
8 spending 30 years in county government, the
9 way that it's proposed is that there are
10 lower-paying jobs for security. Would you
11 say that that's still in play, or you think
12 that that's changed somewhat?
13 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: There are
14 lower-paying jobs in security where?
15 ASSEMBLYMAN DeSTEFANO: In -- when you
16 take a civil service test, that's generally
17 lower-paying than if you worked in the
18 private sector, but you took it for the
19 security of -- you know, benefits and
20 retirement, things like that.
21 You think that still applies?
22 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: It's the
23 entire package that you have to look at. You
24 can't just look at the salaries. Because
168
1 there still is tremendous value to the
2 benefit package that goes along with being a
3 state employee.
4 ASSEMBLYMAN DeSTEFANO: Thank you,
5 Commissioner.
6 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
7 Back to the Senate.
8 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
9 Senator Ramos.
10 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you,
11 Senator Krueger.
12 Hello, Commissioner. I want to start
13 by asking about policies for pregnant people.
14 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: And I'm sorry,
15 Senator Ramos, you just have three minutes
16 here because you're not the chair of Civil
17 Service.
18 SENATOR RAMOS: Okay. Well, I hope
19 they'll start again.
20 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: So let's start
21 the clock again, yes, thank you.
22 SENATOR RAMOS: All right.
23 So pregnant people without
24 disabilities do not meet the current state
169
1 standard for reasonable accommodation to stay
2 away from public-facing work, despite the CDC
3 citing them at higher risk for severe illness
4 from COVID-19. Contracting COVID during
5 pregnancy leaves an increased risk for
6 pre-term birth, stillbirth and other
7 pregnancy complications. Yet I had a public
8 employee speak to me about being six months
9 pregnant and being forced to go into work and
10 catching COVID.
11 Given this immunocompromised state,
12 what accommodations are allotted to pregnant
13 people who work in high-exposure environments
14 in your agencies?
15 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: Sure. So
16 a reasonable accommodation is intended to
17 provide -- you know, it has to be reasonable.
18 So to the extent that an individual -- and it
19 also has to look at the operational needs of
20 an agency.
21 If someone has their employer -- and
22 I'm not sure what kinds of types of positions
23 that you're speaking to in this case. But if
24 it's required that the individual has to be
170
1 in the office and can't work remotely because
2 operationally that's not possible, then
3 that's one situation. But then to the extent
4 that they have to be in the office, then they
5 have to provide them or offer them a
6 reasonable accommodation.
7 So someone who is pregnant and may be
8 at higher risk -- and I would -- I can't
9 speak to whether or not the individuals who
10 are pregnant are actually eligible for
11 reasonable accommodation. I can't speak
12 specifically to that. But certainly the
13 agency would have to look at that situation
14 to see if they could maybe have that person
15 be socially distancing --
16 SENATOR RAMOS: I'd like to reach out
17 to you about the case. You're not actually
18 answering my question, with all due respect,
19 Commissioner.
20 I mean, the truth is you have no
21 policy for pregnant people. And, you know,
22 pregnant people are -- who aren't getting any
23 accommodations and aren't -- you know, even
24 if they're seeking one, are being denied and
171
1 are contracting COVID on the front lines.
2 And that's something that I want you to be,
3 you know, very concerned with.
4 I'm going to ask you about OPWDD
5 closures. We know that more than 90 operated
6 homes for the developmentally disabled are in
7 the process of closing, if they haven't
8 already, and it's displacing hundreds of
9 individuals with developmental disabilities.
10 What steps are you taking to offer more civil
11 service tests to hire workers to serve this
12 population?
13 You know, I talk about the lack of
14 psychiatric beds a lot and how this
15 contributes to our general public safety. I
16 think this is a huge role that you play here.
17 How can you help us ensure that we're, you
18 know, not promoting the closure of these
19 homes?
20 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: Sure. We
21 are working very closely with OPWDD on the
22 administration of their civil service exams
23 for the upcoming year. So we're working very
24 closely with them on that.
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1 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: That is at zero.
2 Thank you.
3 Assemblywoman?
4 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: We do not --
5 oh. Aha. We do have an Assemblywoman.
6 Assemblywoman Reyes, for three minutes.
7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN REYES: Thank you.
8 Thank you, Commissioner.
9 So as you know, we have a severe nurse
10 shortage at SUNY hospitals, partly driven by
11 low pay compared to private institutions, and
12 then part of it is the less-than-adequate
13 recruitment efforts. When can we expect to
14 see exams being offered at state universities
15 more consistently?
16 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: Well, the
17 nurse titles are actually continuous
18 recruitment, so they are able to continually
19 recruit and test for those titles.
20 ASSEMBLYWOMAN REYES: And are they
21 being offered more readily at SUNY
22 institutions?
23 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: They are
24 offered on a regular basis. I don't know
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1 specifically what the -- if they're offered
2 weekly or daily, but they are offered on a
3 regular basis for all nurse positions.
4 ASSEMBLYWOMAN REYES: I would like
5 more information on what "regular" means.
6 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: Yup.
7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN REYES: And what is the
8 Civil Service Department doing to expand
9 advertising for these exams to low-income and
10 other communities, to expand the potential
11 pool of applicants?
12 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: So with --
13 the Office of Diversity and Inclusion
14 Management has worked very closely with
15 agencies to identify their most critical
16 positions, including nurses and other
17 positions across the state that we can go out
18 and do recruitment events for.
19 So we identify recruitment events that
20 are available in various communities
21 throughout the state, and then we make sure
22 that we have a presence there so that people
23 can find out about the opportunities that are
24 available to them.
174
1 ASSEMBLYWOMAN REYES: Any
2 extraordinary or deliberate efforts being
3 made to recruit nursing staff specifically?
4 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: We will
5 work -- from the Department of Civil Service?
6 No. But I'm sure that the agencies have
7 their own recruitment policies in place that
8 they're recruiting for their titles as well.
9 ASSEMBLYWOMAN REYES: Thank you.
10 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: You're
11 welcome.
12 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
13 I'm going to just take a couple of
14 minutes to follow up on the questions about
15 succession, Commissioner.
16 So I think you've heard from several
17 people we're really very concerned that we
18 don't have the staff coming into state
19 government that we need for our future or
20 even for our current demand.
21 And so you've talked about expanding
22 and reaching out to the college campuses,
23 making it easier to take the tests. Are
24 other states having these same problems? And
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1 what more can we be doing or should we be
2 doing?
3 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: Well, I
4 think there's always more that we can be
5 doing. And I think that's what this
6 Executive Budget is getting at.
7 As you said, you mentioned the SUNY
8 partnerships that we have. And other
9 initiatives included in the budget such as
10 the continuous recruitment Article VII.
11 Continuous recruitment will allow --
12 you may know that right now you can only do
13 continuous recruitment for specific titles
14 that are hard to recruit. But we think
15 continuous recruitment should be done for any
16 title as needed. That way, as state agencies
17 have a need, they have a new initiative or
18 they have a specific need, that they can go
19 out and do targeted recruitment for that
20 particular title and then they can test for
21 and then get individuals into the workforce
22 faster.
23 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Okay. I'm just
24 seeing whether -- and in follow-up, is that
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1 what other states do? Have you looked at
2 what other states are doing to speed up their
3 ability to bring on new workers?
4 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: I cannot
5 speak to what other states are doing.
6 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Okay. All right.
7 I think there are no more hands up --
8 Oh, I'm sorry, Senator Jackson does
9 have the opportunity for a three-minute
10 follow-up, and I see his hand up.
11 So Senator Jackson.
12 SENATOR JACKSON: Thank you,
13 Madam Chair.
14 So Commissioner, let me turn back to
15 the nurses. You're the commissioner and you
16 were a deputy commissioner for a while. Do
17 you know what the salary grade for nurses are
18 in the agencies? It's my understanding that
19 the nurses earn so much less compared to
20 private industry, and in fact that even
21 nurses that are being recruited as agency
22 nurses are earning more than our nurses.
23 What are we doing to increase the
24 salary for nurses? Not a reclassification,
177
1 but a reallocation, in order to make sure
2 that we're saying to these individuals that
3 are saving lives of New Yorkers, we
4 appreciate you and you deserve more money.
5 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: We did do
6 an analysis, a study on the nurse titles.
7 And as a result of that, we did increase --
8 or we did provide a salary differential to
9 nurses across the state. So that is
10 something that the Department of Civil
11 Service has already done.
12 SENATOR JACKSON: Yeah, but a
13 differential is only for geographical areas.
14 In my opinion, every -- the entire State of
15 New York, especially rural areas where it's
16 even more difficult, the salary grade needs
17 to be increased. And not just a geographic
18 deferential.
19 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: That's an
20 analysis that would really need to be done
21 across the workforce, in that sense.
22 SENATOR JACKSON: Well, Commissioner,
23 if it needs to be done, all you have to do is
24 visit anywhere in the State of New York and
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1 you speak to the nurses there, and they will
2 tell you what it's like.
3 I'm telling you, I hear it all the
4 time, and I'm in New York City. Okay?
5 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO:
6 Understood.
7 SENATOR JACKSON: And then let me go
8 back to the question I asked earlier. The
9 Governor signed legislation in 2021,
10 Chapter 710, that requires a study due on
11 December 22 to examine 55B/C. And I had
12 asked you that before, and you said you were
13 not aware of what study.
14 You said that the state benefit
15 package is not as robust as previous years
16 when asked about Tier 6. My question on
17 Tier 6 is have you heard about that Tier 6 is
18 not as good as it should be, and is anything
19 being discussed at your level in order to
20 address the issues and concerns that
21 employees are making about Tier 6?
22 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: So going
23 back to the 55B/C, yes, that study was just
24 recently passed. When you asked the
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1 question, you were referring to something
2 that was already due. That was why I
3 wasn't -- I wasn't understanding what you
4 were referring to.
5 But I'm absolutely aware of the study
6 that is due in the future.
7 As far as your question about Tier 6,
8 Tier 6 is not something the Department of
9 Civil Service is responsible for determining.
10 We don't oversee that program. So I
11 certainly can't speak to -- you know, any
12 further on Tier 6.
13 SENATOR JACKSON: Okay. But
14 Commissioner, you're the commissioner of
15 Civil Service, and you're hearing what's bad.
16 Are you -- who do you communicate with? The
17 Governor, is that correct? About the fact
18 that you must have heard from people even in
19 your office Tier 6 is terrible and about
20 nurses being underpaid. And that's just
21 giving you a couple of examples.
22 And I'm -- because I'm telling you I'm
23 hearing it. And I want to know what's being
24 done to address that so people can be able to
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1 live in New York and work in New York State
2 and be able to afford to pay rent, pay for
3 their home, you know, educate their children,
4 so forth and so on.
5 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO:
6 Understood. This is something we can
7 continue to discuss in the future.
8 SENATOR JACKSON: Okay, I appreciate
9 it. And as the commissioner, we look forward
10 to working with you in order to make sure
11 that our employees are being well taken care
12 of.
13 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: Thank you.
14 SENATOR JACKSON: Thank you.
15 Thank you, Madam Chair.
16 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you,
17 Senator Jackson.
18 I believe that everyone who had their
19 hand up got their questioning time in. Yes,
20 Assemblymember Reyes had come and gone
21 already, so to speak.
22 So I'm going to excuse you, Acting
23 Commissioner Corso. You may likely get
24 follow-up questions from some of the
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1 panelists from the Assembly and the Senate.
2 And now I'm going to call up
3 Michael Volforte, New York State Governor's
4 Office of Employee Relations, director.
5 And are you with us?
6 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: I am.
7 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Hello, how are
8 you?
9 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: Good. My
10 block is moving around, so it's --
11 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: I know, it
12 happens all the time. We just wander around
13 confused.
14 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: I'm not the
15 center square, so --
16 (Laughter.)
17 ACTING COMMISSIONER CORSO: -- moving
18 around, so --
19 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: I do call this
20 Hollywood Squares, yes.
21 So you have up to 10 minutes to
22 summarize your testimony for us and then take
23 some questions from legislators who will
24 raise their hands if they wish to ask you
182
1 questions.
2 Thank you, Michael.
3 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: Thank you.
4 Chairs Weinstein and Krueger and
5 honorable members of the Assembly and Senate,
6 my name is Michael Volforte, and I am the
7 director of the Office of Employee Relations.
8 Thank you for the opportunity to address you
9 on Governor Hochul's Executive Budget
10 proposal for fiscal year 2023 as it relates
11 to our agency and the state workforce.
12 Over the past year, we have continued
13 to assist agencies in meeting their needs to
14 help the workforce through the continued
15 pandemic. As all of you know, our workforce
16 has performed remarkably throughout the
17 pandemic. Since we last spoke, tens of
18 thousands of frontline workers have continued
19 to be on the job every day throughout this
20 pandemic, and many more volunteered for
21 on-going pandemic response, like our
22 state-run vaccination sites.
23 Under Governor Hochul's leadership, we
24 have continued to mount a robust response to
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1 the pandemic. In recent months, under the
2 Governor's leadership, we have been central
3 in implementing the state's evolving
4 requirements for certain employees to be
5 vaccinated for COVID-19 or to be tested for
6 it on a weekly basis.
7 We are continuously in touch with our
8 union counterparts regarding their
9 COVID-19-related concerns. And while we
10 don't always agree, we're all working in good
11 faith to help navigate this unprecedented
12 situation, and we respect their efforts and
13 their representation of our employees.
14 Throughout this pandemic, our agency
15 has been a resource for managers in state
16 agencies, fielding thousands of inquiries
17 regarding how to apply policies that are
18 designed to keep our employees safe and keep
19 critical services and programs running.
20 Recently, for example, we've responded to
21 many inquiries regarding workplace
22 application of recent DOH guidance on
23 quarantine and isolation as they relate to
24 the workplace, as well as other inquiries
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1 about workplace rules governing masks.
2 Agencies were recently directed to begin
3 offering appropriate masks to employees.
4 During the past year, we transitioned
5 from our emergency statewide telecommuting
6 policy to agency-administered policies.
7 Almost every agency now offers eligible
8 employees the ability to telecommute for a
9 portion of their workweek.
10 We also continued to take other steps
11 that recognize the tireless effort of so many
12 state employees. Many state employees during
13 the pandemic were unable to use vacation
14 accruals due to work in response to COVID-19,
15 and accruals were set to expire. We
16 negotiated an extension of the expiration
17 date with the unions that represent them so
18 that employees would have the opportunity to
19 utilize that leave.
20 An increasing number of employees
21 taking advantage of our flexible spending
22 accounts -- pre-tax programs designed to
23 allow employees to pay for certain eligible
24 expenses on a pre-tax basis -- were impacted
185
1 by the pandemic. In response, our office
2 implemented several changes to permit
3 participants to use their funds to the
4 greatest extent possible. We allowed
5 carryovers in 2021 and 2022, and we allowed
6 employees to use their balances in future
7 years and added changes adding eligibility
8 for dependents who would otherwise age out.
9 In addition, with our unions we worked
10 closely with union joint committees on health
11 benefits to continue our telemedicine pilot
12 program, add eligibility for dependents who
13 would otherwise age out of certain dental
14 procedures, worked closely to bolster mental
15 health access, and keeping the unions
16 informed of federal and state mandate changes
17 as it relates to health insurance and
18 COVID-19.
19 In addition, in collaboration with
20 those union counterparts, we continued many
21 other programs that provide important
22 benefits to our workforce. In the last year
23 our Employee Assistance Program rendered
24 valuable assistance to over 22,000 state
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1 employees working and coping with the
2 pandemic. We also distributed over 7,000 job
3 and career tuition benefit reimbursements in
4 the past year.
5 While much of our focus has been on
6 aiding the response to the COVID-19 pandemic,
7 we have continued to administer benefits and
8 programs that are designed to improve both
9 the quality of the work and personal lives of
10 our employees.
11 As you know, we investigate complaints
12 of protected class employment discrimination
13 and harassment in executive branch agencies
14 covered by Executive Order No. 187. In
15 addition to investigating such complaints
16 last year, in December GOER provided a series
17 of live webinars to train all senior agency
18 executives on the state's anti-discrimination
19 policies and procedures.
20 This year's budget proposes a
21 substantial investment in our resources to
22 quickly investigate the increasing number of
23 complaints we are receiving and train state
24 employees by adding 30 FTEs to our agency,
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1 and additional funding. This proposal in our
2 budget will also help us meet the Governor's
3 commitment to providing live
4 anti-discrimination training to state
5 employees, rather than the current
6 computer-based training module.
7 While we don't comment in detail on
8 our currently open negotiations, we are
9 currently in bargaining at various stages
10 with three unions for successor agreements to
11 their expired contracts. Under the
12 Governor's leadership, our approach to
13 bargaining is straightforward and equitable:
14 We will make responsible investments in our
15 workforce that are fair to employees and
16 ensure that state government continues to
17 provide outstanding services to all
18 New Yorkers.
19 Further, the Governor has recognized
20 the importance of investing in the workforce.
21 In the budget, the Governor has proposed
22 creating bonuses for critical frontline
23 healthcare and direct care workers employed
24 by not only the state but by other public and
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1 private employers. The proposal is for a
2 bonus of up to $3000 in total, geared toward
3 the recruitment and retention of individuals
4 to fill these important roles.
5 In closing, despite the challenges of
6 the past year, executive branch employees
7 have continued to deliver services critical
8 to New Yorkers. And we look forward to
9 another year of continued partnership with
10 our union counterparts as we move forward
11 under Governor Hochul's leadership.
12 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you very
13 much.
14 Our first questioner will be Senator
15 Robert Jackson.
16 SENATOR JACKSON: Thank you.
17 And good afternoon, Director. How are
18 you?
19 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: Good
20 afternoon. How are you, Senator?
21 SENATOR JACKSON: I understand you've
22 been in that position a while. You're a very
23 experienced person in state government. Is
24 that correct?
189
1 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: I've been
2 around for a little while, yes, sir.
3 SENATOR JACKSON: That's good. Good
4 experience.
5 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: I think our
6 paths have even crossed in your former life
7 as well, Senator.
8 (Laughter.)
9 SENATOR JACKSON: You're right.
10 You're right.
11 Let me just ask a couple of questions.
12 You talked about contract negotiations with
13 labor unions. In the State of New York, how
14 many unions do not have an active contract
15 right now and in essence you're negotiating
16 with them?
17 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: We're
18 currently negotiating with three unions.
19 SENATOR JACKSON: And which ones are
20 they?
21 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: We're
22 negotiating with CSEA, Council 82, and we are
23 in the closing stages with PBA-NYS, which
24 reports agency police.
190
1 SENATOR JACKSON: Okay, very good.
2 And considering the fact that I
3 understand the state is flush with money at
4 this point in time, where the Governor is
5 proposing to put away for rainy days -- which
6 is a good thing -- hopefully negotiations
7 will end soon with those several unions.
8 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: We remain
9 open to deals with everybody. And, you know,
10 where we ultimately wind up is the
11 give-and-take of negotiations and we will get
12 there with all of those unions.
13 SENATOR JACKSON: I hope so.
14 So also now, as far as COVID-19, my
15 understanding is that state employees are
16 expected to get to work. Do you have a
17 situation where people can work at home
18 several days and come into the office, or
19 deal with people via Zoom or conference call,
20 rather than exposing themselves to a variant
21 that is quickly spreading around? Even
22 though statistically, based on the numbers,
23 it's decreasing at this point in time
24 compared to several weeks ago. And mainly
191
1 because, in my opinion, one fact is the
2 extreme cold weather.
3 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: As you know,
4 the overwhelming majority of our state
5 workforce comes into the work setting every
6 day and has throughout the entire pandemic.
7 The remainder that might be in an
8 office-based setting, almost every single
9 agency currently has a telecommuting policy,
10 and under those, those agencies determine
11 who's eligible and who's not eligible to
12 work. And typically there are a number of
13 days per week that those individuals can
14 telecommute so that they're only in the
15 office setting a portion of their workweek
16 and telecommuting, working from, you know, an
17 alternate location the remaining part of the
18 week.
19 SENATOR JACKSON: Now, as far as the
20 Executive Budget proposed an increase in
21 workforce and appropriations authority of
22 over 30 percent for anti-discrimination and
23 training initiatives. Who is going to be
24 running that statewide? Is that in your
192
1 shop? And how many people are involved in
2 that unit?
3 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: There are --
4 that is involved in part of GOER. It's a
5 unit that was created in 2018 via the
6 transfer of individuals.
7 Currently we're at 35 individuals
8 staffing, and that unit will continue to be
9 administered and overseen out of GOER.
10 SENATOR JACKSON: Okay. That's all I
11 have for this moment; I may come back.
12 Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
13 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you very
14 much.
15 Assemblywoman Weinstein.
16 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Yes, we go to
17 our Government Employees chair,
18 Assemblyman Abbate.
19 ASSEMBLYMAN ABBATE: Thank you again,
20 Helene.
21 And Director, just two questions. You
22 went over the 3.1 million, 35 percent
23 increase and, you know, 30 new positions for
24 the anti-discrimination unit. And then the
193
1 employee training program. Do we know how
2 many cases -- anti-discrimination cases have
3 arisen this year?
4 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: We -- in 2021
5 we received approximately 2,000 complaints.
6 They're not all -- they're all complaints,
7 and they all get looked at and investigated,
8 but not all of them are discrimination
9 complaints.
10 We -- sometimes people complain to us
11 and they're just not discrimination
12 complaints. But they're all looked at,
13 they're all analyzed, they're all discussed
14 with the agencies, and the agencies are aware
15 of them.
16 So the -- but that same unit needs to
17 look at every single complaint to ensure that
18 they're not, but they look at about 2,000
19 complaints a year now.
20 ASSEMBLYMAN ABBATE: And what was it
21 the year before? Do you have a number for
22 that?
23 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: A year into
24 the pandemic was -- the last year before that
194
1 was at least a couple of hundred less. The
2 numbers -- the exact number's escaping me,
3 Chair.
4 ASSEMBLYMAN ABBATE: Do you notice any
5 trend going in any direction, where they're
6 coming from and --
7 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: I think the
8 biggest trend, I would say, is that I think
9 the trend with -- where we saw events over
10 the past year with the racial justice
11 movement. I think that those types of cases
12 have increased over the past year or so in
13 terms of the overall proportion of it. So
14 that would be the biggest trend.
15 And then, as you might imagine, larger
16 agencies have larger numbers of cases just
17 because that's where the majority of our
18 workforce is.
19 ASSEMBLYMAN ABBATE: So you mentioned
20 that, you know, you're going to be giving
21 different classes and more structure. Is
22 there any other investigating -- is there any
23 other enforcement that you'll be doing other
24 than just investigations?
195
1 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: Well, the
2 goal of the investigation is to find out
3 conduct that violates policy and doesn't
4 violate policy.
5 For the conduct that violates the
6 policy, what happens then is the agencies
7 take action against the employees depending
8 on the severity of the conduct -- which for a
9 lot of our workforce means filing charges
10 against the employee if the conduct is severe
11 enough to warrant discipline, and bringing
12 those charges before arbitrators and finding
13 out if they're actually guilty of the conduct
14 and then getting penalties imposed.
15 So it's not just concluding
16 investigations. And my staff play vital
17 roles in terms of -- with the agencies in
18 terms of going over those investigations with
19 the agencies so that they can structure those
20 charges and then actually becoming witnesses
21 at those proceedings when employees are
22 prosecuted.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN ABBATE: Okay. And on the
24 model employee training program, do we know
196
1 what percentage of the additional funding
2 would be going to set that up and how much it
3 might cost in the future to run them?
4 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: I don't think
5 we have a percentage now. Certainly to go
6 from a entirely computer-based training
7 module to live training is a large
8 undertaking. The goal is to hire staff who
9 will take some roles in the training and
10 allow other current investigators to take
11 roles in the training. But we're going to
12 have to have more than just the investigators
13 and trainers at GOER training, so we're going
14 to have to have a variety of models.
15 But overall, the $3 million will be
16 devoted towards individuals who will -- you
17 know, through the investigations we hope to
18 lower the number of complaints, through the
19 training we hope to lower the complaints.
20 But I don't have an estimate on the
21 percentage of it. We would expect in years
22 future, at this point, that we would be able
23 to continue whatever we stand up out of that
24 current-year appropriation.
197
1 ASSEMBLYMAN ABBATE: Okay. Well,
2 thank you very much.
3 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: Thank you,
4 Chair.
5 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
6 Our next speaker is Senator Jessica
7 Ramos, the chair of Labor. Three minutes.
8 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you, Chair.
9 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: You're welcome.
10 SENATOR RAMOS: Hi, Mr. Volforte.
11 Nice to see you.
12 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: Good
13 afternoon, Senator.
14 SENATOR RAMOS: I wanted to ask about
15 your office, the Office of Employee
16 Relations, because your office's budget has
17 been largely flat over the years. And, you
18 know, what role will the 30 additional
19 employees that's being proposed at OER
20 actually be doing? And I'm wondering if you
21 can tell me how many of your staff currently
22 work in anti-discrimination roles.
23 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: Sure. We
24 have current staffing levels of 35 in
198
1 anti-discrimination roles. That's the unit.
2 That wouldn't include me overseeing it. But
3 that includes the entire staff, from the
4 director of that unit down to administrative
5 staff.
6 We have more hires currently in
7 process. Those 30 would all be targeted in
8 that unit. Their primary role will be
9 investigations. And then in that unit they
10 will also be involved in the training of the
11 state workforce, as will others as we develop
12 and round out that program.
13 So ultimately if we used 35 today,
14 plus the 30, we would be at 65. But we'll be
15 a bit above that with current hires in
16 process.
17 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you,
18 Commissioner. And in the minute and a half I
19 have left, what's being done about employee
20 retention? You know, we've seen severe
21 layoffs and folks leaving their jobs behind.
22 What's your plan to keep them here serving
23 the people of New York?
24 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: Certainly as
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1 current negotiations go on, those retention
2 topics are front and center of all of our
3 negotiations. We strive to do the best job
4 we can, in cooperation with the unions that
5 we negotiate with. And as we lead through
6 future negotiations, we'll be addressing
7 retention from the negotiated perspective
8 those things that we have to negotiate or
9 should negotiate to increase retention of
10 employees and attract other employees to the
11 state workforce.
12 You know, we've got -- in many areas
13 we've got generous benefits. You know, we've
14 got, you know, very high end health
15 insurance. We do have Tier 6, which was the
16 subject of some conversation. I recall when
17 I came in, Tier 4 was pooh-poohed, and now
18 Tier 4 looks like the Cadillac of the
19 healthcare system. So I remember those
20 conversations.
21 But it's, you know, a strong, defined
22 benefit program. And we have things like
23 time off. A seven-year employee gets 20-plus
24 vacation days a year. So I think we'll work
200
1 with the unions and we'll get there.
2 SENATOR RAMOS: All right, thank you.
3 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: Thank you,
4 Senator.
5 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you very
6 much.
7 Assembly.
8 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: We go to
9 Assemblywoman Griffin, three minutes.
10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GRIFFIN: Thank you,
11 Chairs. And hello, Director Volforte.
12 I have a couple of questions, but my
13 first is with -- I know you are in
14 negotiations with the PBA of New York State.
15 And I know it's been a long time that they've
16 been working on a contract. And I just
17 wondered -- I'm not sure what you're able to
18 disclose, but what plans do you have to
19 address the high rate of attrition and then
20 the problems recruiting?
21 And one of the big reasons is like
22 after five years, they have a 50 percent rate
23 of attrition because they don't have nearly
24 the same benefits as other police. They get
201
1 paid at a much lower rate, they have lower
2 benefits, and they also -- their pension is
3 longer, it's 25 years instead of the 20 that
4 most other agencies have.
5 So I just wondered, what plans do you
6 have for that?
7 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: So we're --
8 you know, I won't comment on the specifics of
9 where we are, but we're -- I would say that
10 we're in the end stages of negotiations with
11 them which will address their compensation
12 from 2019 forward, they're caught up, so to
13 speak, in terms of a bargaining agreement or
14 a compensation agreement up through 2019,
15 which was the result of an interest
16 arbitration award.
17 We're hopeful that we will have a
18 successfully negotiated and ratified
19 agreement with them very shortly, and we
20 think that that agreement will address a lot
21 of recruitment and retention issues and
22 attract them.
23 You know, certainly, you know, the
24 issue of -- other issues as they arise, we're
202
1 always open to discussion. You know,
2 negotiations do take a while to get through.
3 And, you know, but once we are done
4 negotiating, the proverbial door doesn't shut
5 and we constantly evaluate and look at other
6 things which, you know, improve the work life
7 of those individuals, improve the services
8 that they deliver, which lead to more
9 attractive roles.
10 So we'll continue to work with them
11 towards that over the coming years.
12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GRIFFIN: Thank you, I
13 appreciate that. And I just wanted to say I
14 appreciate all of the Park Police and
15 University Police too. You know, we don't
16 realize through the years there's been more
17 and more demands put on them. There's
18 like -- even with COVID, our local state park
19 has been, you know, millions -- well, not
20 millions, but so many people come and there's
21 limited Park Police, so they have to work
22 that much harder to ensure safety at
23 campgrounds, at park grounds, and there's
24 just much more entailed. There's much more
203
1 going on at universities. So I think it is,
2 you know, important to make those
3 negotiations really count.
4 Quickly, my other question is just a
5 quick question. A lot of constituents have
6 asked me if CSEA will be giving any
7 retirement incentives.
8 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: I couldn't
9 comment on retirement incentives, since
10 they're not negotiated. So it wouldn't
11 really fall under my bailiwick.
12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GRIFFIN: Okay, thank
13 you so much.
14 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
15 We go to the Senate.
16 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
17 Senator Diane Savino.
18 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you,
19 Senator Krueger.
20 Good to see you, Director.
21 So I'm going to follow up where
22 Assemblymember Griffin left off. I would
23 imagine you would consider yourself an expert
24 on the Taylor Law on what's called mandatory
204
1 permissive and prohibitive subjects of
2 collective bargaining, wouldn't you?
3 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: I think I'm
4 versed in it.
5 SENATOR SAVINO: You're pretty well
6 versed in it. So I'm going to read you the
7 memo -- a veto message that the Governor
8 issued with respect to a series of pension
9 enhancement bills at the end of 2021. And it
10 was the same veto message for all the bills.
11 One of them was for the University Park
12 Police, one was for an MTA bill, one for --
13 et cetera.
14 And it says: "All of the workers
15 covered under these bills provide significant
16 service to New Yorkers. I'm proud that the
17 retirement benefits provided them under state
18 law are significant and generous. However,
19 any change in retirement benefits like these
20 should first be negotiated through the
21 collective bargaining process before
22 legislation is introduced. I believe the
23 collective bargaining process is the best way
24 for employers to reach agreements on work and
205
1 pension benefits. I'm also aware that for
2 certain groups of state employees covered by
3 these bills, there's a growing concern about
4 the current level of retirement benefits and
5 its impact on the agencies' ability to
6 recruit and retain the best officers. For
7 that reason, I want to bring all impacted
8 parties together next year to discuss how to
9 best improve recruitment and retention in
10 New York State so we have the best and the
11 brightest."
12 Now, you and I both know that pensions
13 are prohibitive subject of collective
14 bargaining. They cannot be negotiated in a
15 contract. You can discuss them and agree to
16 jointly come to Albany and seek legislation
17 together, and that is often what happens.
18 But as you know, you cannot put them in a
19 contract.
20 So my question to you, Director, is
21 number one, have you advised the Governor of
22 the error of her veto message that in fact
23 you can't negotiate these things in
24 contracts? And two, has she called together
206
1 a group of people to negotiate or to discuss
2 how to arrive at improving our pension system
3 so that we can recruit and retain the best
4 and the brightest, as it says so in her veto
5 message?
6 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: I think the
7 answer to both parts of your question are
8 with your last statement.
9 So the veto message was issued in
10 2021. It's now 2022, we're in budget season.
11 I don't think that folks have been called
12 together yet, so it is this -- we are in the
13 next year but we're only, you know, a small
14 portion through the next year.
15 And I think the Governor's veto
16 message is best interpreted as an
17 indication -- I'm sorry?
18 SENATOR SAVINO: Bad advice, is how it
19 should be best interpreted.
20 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: No, it's an
21 invitation to discuss the issue because these
22 issues, like in the past, like under prior
23 Governors, when there were changes, they were
24 discussed at the bargaining table and there
207
1 was that joint discussion and bringing it
2 forward for legislation.
3 So I think that's the spirit in which
4 it's offered.
5 SENATOR SAVINO: But, Director, you
6 can't negotiate it in a contract. And so
7 what I would suggest is based upon this veto
8 message, you go back to your principal, which
9 is the Governor, and let her know that that
10 was an error and that in fact her intent,
11 where she wants to be able to recruit and
12 retain the brightest, we all agree that we
13 need to do something to improve the pension
14 package that is now offered to employees,
15 because Tier 6 ain't cutting it. And the
16 system we have now in place is not
17 sufficient. And I say that as a person who
18 is a Tier 4 member who fought to increase and
19 improve the Tier 4 that we had before.
20 My time is up now, but I just thought
21 it was important that you, as the person who
22 should know this best, advise the Governor
23 that she was given bad advice when she issued
24 that veto message.
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1 Thank you.
2 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you. Thank
3 you, Senator Savino.
4 And I believe that our list of
5 questioners is complete for you, director,
6 and so thank you very much for your time with
7 us today. We will excuse you.
8 GOER DIRECTOR VOLFORTE: Thank you
9 very much.
10 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: And we are now --
11 thank you. For people tracking, we are now
12 moving on to our panels of
13 nongovernment representatives.
14 And to remind everyone of the rules of
15 the road, the panelists will each speak.
16 They each get three minutes. Then our
17 questions are limited to three minutes each
18 because, for people who didn't read the whole
19 schedule today, we have two back-to-back
20 hearings today and we'll probably be here
21 till very, very late at night.
22 So the first panel -- and I think you
23 should just plan on speaking in the order
24 that I call you up -- the Civil Service
209
1 Employees Association Local 1000, Joshua
2 Terry, legislative director of AFSCME; the
3 New York State Public Employees Federation,
4 Randi DiAntonio, vice president; the
5 Organization of New York State Management
6 Confidential Employees, Barbara Zaron,
7 president; and the Retired Public Employee
8 Association, Executive Director Ed Farrell.
9 Hello, everyone. We'll start, again,
10 with Civil Service Employees Association.
11 MR. TERRY: Thank you, Chairwoman.
12 Thanks for inviting us to testify today.
13 I'll start by saying this budget is
14 really a refreshing change from those of
15 previous years. I don't have to talk about
16 closures in OMH or OCFS or DOCCS or service
17 cuts in OPWDD or cuts to AIM or attacks on
18 the benefits of our retirees. But I'm happy
19 to discuss what this hearing is supposed to
20 be about, and what it's labeled, which is the
21 development of our workforce for future
22 years.
23 This budget does a few things. It
24 acknowledges the need for investments in the
210
1 state and local governments. Secondly, it
2 recognizes the sacrifices made by our direct
3 care workers -- not just during the pandemic,
4 but for the past 20 years when the state has
5 divested from staff and programs. And
6 lastly, it sets the stage to rebuild our
7 public workforce.
8 We do appreciate this proposal, but we
9 know that we need to do more to recruit and
10 retain employees throughout the state.
11 Public-sector employees are leaving at a fast
12 clip, and nearly every part of the workforce
13 is facing shortages. We know we don't have
14 enough direct care workers, causing massive
15 levels of mandatory overtime, which causes
16 burnout and turnover, and then more burnout,
17 and then more turnover. But at the end of it
18 is the inability for residents to get the
19 services that they need.
20 The State Department of Transportation
21 cannot compete with private transportation
22 companies such as Amazon, UPS or FedEx. This
23 has led to fewer plow drivers, which, during
24 storms like we saw this past weekend, can
211
1 lead to delays in plowing and unsafe road
2 conditions. And lastly, we know about the
3 bus driver shortage many districts are
4 facing, which led some to call for bringing
5 in the National Guard to transport our kids
6 to school.
7 But the answer to getting more
8 employees into these roles is not that
9 complex. It has to do with increasing the
10 pay and benefits to recruit and retain. So
11 how do we do this? Well, we need an honest
12 assessment of the career paths, compensation
13 and benefits that are offered. Years ago
14 there was a clear tradeoff coming into the
15 public sector: I will make less money, I
16 will accept a lower salary, but I will get
17 really quality health benefits and an awesome
18 defined-benefit pension that will carry me
19 through retirement.
20 But that's changed. That's why CSEA
21 strongly supports changes to the state
22 pension system, specifically Tier 6, so that
23 it serves as an actual recruitment tool for
24 new employees and to help retain existing
212
1 ones. Under Tier 6, employees have to work
2 longer and pay more in order to receive a
3 smaller benefit at the end of their career.
4 It does not serve as a tool to recruit
5 employees into public service, especially
6 when the private sector can pay significantly
7 more than public employers.
8 We can't kick the can down the road
9 anymore. We can't allow our agencies to go
10 another year without making these
11 investments, both on hiring more staff but
12 giving them the resources and the benefits
13 package that will actually recruit workers
14 into the system and retain the ones that we
15 have. And we really look forward to working
16 on that with all of you this coming year.
17 Thank you.
18 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you very
19 much.
20 Next, Randi DiAntonio.
21 MS. DiANTONIO: Good afternoon,
22 distinguished committee members. I echo
23 everything that CSEA just mentioned about the
24 things that are being put into the Governor's
213
1 budget. We appreciate that.
2 But given the time constraints, I'm
3 going to cut to the chase. You know, New
4 York State agencies are seriously
5 short-staffed. The decade of closures and
6 cuts and consolidation has taken its toll,
7 and COVID just magnified an existing crisis.
8 While we appreciate the lifting of the hiring
9 freeze, and that's great, it is not an
10 immediate fix to slow the current
11 hemorrhaging of the state workforce.
12 To give an example, state employees
13 worked 19 million hours of overtime last
14 year, at a cost of $850 million. Our members
15 are exhausted. They're burned out, they're
16 frustrated with the lack of staffing, the
17 lack of resources, the lack of professional
18 respect. The morale is lower than we've ever
19 seen it. And we've all read the papers and
20 seen the news; we are simply not able to
21 provide the levels of care that we need to to
22 the unemployed, the seriously mentally ill,
23 the developmentally disabled, and on and on.
24 Speakers before me mentioned that the
214
1 Department of Labor is down 33 percent in
2 staffing. And while we're grateful hiring
3 has restarted, many of those hires are
4 temporary, which is somewhat ironic.
5 The frustration of New Yorkers waiting
6 for services mirrors the frustration of the
7 workforce. You know, we can't do all the
8 things we want to do for incarcerated
9 individuals, for the mentally ill, for the
10 infrastructure, if we don't get staffing and
11 resources. And we are incredibly pleased
12 that the Governor has advanced a proposal in
13 the budget that gives us real opportunity for
14 change. We have monies to fix this. The
15 question is, are we going to direct them to
16 the right places?
17 There is retention bonus monies for
18 healthcare workers, and we recognize and
19 support them, and we think that's great. But
20 RNs are a Grade 16, and we have to do better
21 than that. There are loan reimbursement
22 programs, but they're limited to only a
23 handful of people.
24 And we have other heroes who worked on
215
1 the frontline who will not be getting those
2 bonuses at this point, and we're asking that
3 the Legislature look at that.
4 We also have a civil service system
5 that frankly, despite what was said, most
6 employees lack confidence in. The system is
7 easily manipulated to let people who have
8 friends get to jobs that they, you know, may
9 not be necessarily qualified for. And we
10 want to build a pipeline, and to do that, we
11 have to accelerate testing and hiring and
12 interviewing and on-boarding so that it's
13 efficient and we don't lose qualified
14 candidates. We have to improve the Tier 6
15 pension plan, as everybody mentioned. And
16 even though we have a robust time off and
17 healthcare system, time off is not worth much
18 if you can't get the day off because there's
19 not enough staff.
20 We need OPWDD to stop closing
21 state-operated group homes. We've lost a
22 hundred in the last two years. We can
23 restore state-operated mental health, reject
24 design-build.
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1 Privatization is not working out, it
2 didn't work then, and we need this to be
3 reversed. It's really time to fund our
4 future. Thank you.
5 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you very
6 much.
7 Our next speaker, Barbara Zaron.
8 MS. ZARON: Thank you so much for the
9 opportunity to talk to you today about
10 several of our concerns about inequitable
11 treatment of state MC employees.
12 MCs are found in all agencies in a
13 wide range of salary grades, from Grade 6 to
14 M8, the entire spectrum. They span every
15 occupational group in state service, fill a
16 critical role in managing services to the
17 residents of New York, yet they're
18 consistently treated differently than their
19 union-represented counterparts, to their
20 detriment.
21 Governor Hochul proposed a budget that
22 includes increased spending and investment
23 for many critical programs and services, but
24 has overlooked this critical and, yes,
217
1 essential segment of the workforce. MC
2 employees are used to being treated in a
3 disparate fashion. Last year they received
4 performance advances and longevity payments,
5 but didn't get the 2 percent salary increase
6 received by most of the workforce represented
7 by nine unions. This year, employees
8 represented by seven unions are getting a
9 2 percent increase; the other four unions are
10 in negotiation; but there's no increase
11 authorized for MCs.
12 They are getting angry and frustrated,
13 especially in view of all of the additional
14 demands they're facing, the stresses of
15 workplace safety, and other COVID-related
16 processes and requirements, telecommuting,
17 understaffing, and a range of other issues
18 relating to making the government work.
19 We've talked to GOER on a regular
20 basis throughout the year about salary --
21 obviously, we have no ability to negotiate a
22 contract -- but have only received
23 noncommittal responses. We recently wrote to
24 Governor Hochul and copied Director Mujica
218
1 and Director Volforte about the salary
2 inequities, retiree pay parity, and a variety
3 of other issues. And yes, we even talked
4 about succession planning in our letter.
5 There's no bill yet to provide salary
6 increases for MCs. Typically it's done by
7 attaching the MC bill to a union-pay bill.
8 So we hope that the union negotiations go
9 well and we can see a pay bill soon.
10 Since we're not facing financial
11 disaster this year, we believe this is the
12 time to fix the ongoing long-term inequities,
13 and we ask your action to pass the following
14 two bills: Senate 2866, which is our retiree
15 pay parity bill; and Senate 5727, which would
16 provide for equitable and comparable
17 treatment of MCs.
18 We look forward to passing these
19 bills, and we certainly are available for
20 lots of further discussion. I want to thank
21 Senator Gounardes for his work with us on
22 civil service and pensions, and welcome
23 Senator Jackson as chair of the Civil Service
24 and Pensions Committee, and we look forward
219
1 to working with you.
2 Thank you so much.
3 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you very
4 much.
5 And are we also joined by Ed Farrell?
6 I don't see his name in a box. Ed, are you
7 with us? Well, I think not --
8 THE MODERATOR: He is here, but trying
9 to get his video and audio started.
10 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Very good.
11 (Pause.)
12 THE MODERATOR: Mr. Farrell, you are
13 up.
14 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Hello, are you
15 with us, Mr. Farrell? I'm afraid not.
16 (Off the record.)
17 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: You know what,
18 I'm going to hand it to questioners and if he
19 pops up, we will let him join, of course.
20 MALE MODERATOR: Senator, I believe
21 he's back in the hearing now.
22 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Okay. Thank you,
23 Ian.
24 Mr. Farrell, are you there?
220
1 MR. FARRELL: Yes, I am.
2 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Oh, good. All
3 right.
4 MR. FARRELL: I apologize for that, I
5 don't know what happened. But I am here now.
6 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: This is life on
7 Zoom. It happens.
8 (Laughter.)
9 MR. FARRELL: First of all, Chairs,
10 thank you for the opportunity to participate
11 in this joint hearing.
12 You know who we are. There's roughly
13 500,000 retirees in the state retirement
14 system. You see us in your districts, we're
15 a good part of the community, we pump
16 $12 billion into the state's economy every
17 year. Like Josh, I want to thank you for
18 your past support, and I don't have to talk
19 about things I talked about in the past. The
20 Governor has not proposed any cuts in retiree
21 NYSHIP benefits, so that's good.
22 One thing I do want to talk about and
23 raise the level of awareness, and it has to
24 do with the pension COLA, which has not
221
1 changed in 22 years since it was first
2 enacted. And contrary to the name, it's not
3 a real COLA, it's half a COLA. Whatever the
4 rate of inflation is, pursuant to statutory
5 language, we would get half of the rate of
6 inflation -- not to exceed 3 percent, never
7 less than 1 percent.
8 The pension fund is now almost a
9 hundred percent funded, which is incredible,
10 and it totals -- let's see -- 268 billion.
11 So we think it's time to go back and look at
12 the COLA formula. We can certainly do it
13 when we get to 100-percent funded, and do it,
14 make an adjustment to something which has not
15 changed in 22 years. We think it's an
16 important thing to do.
17 One other thing we call to your
18 attention, and it has to do with skilled
19 nursing facilities. We talked about this in
20 the past. It's got to be a tiny budget add.
21 If you are in the Empire Plan and you are
22 Medicare-primary and you have to go to one of
23 these facilities, you only get 20 days worth
24 of coverage. If you're in the Empire Plan
222
1 and you're not retired and you need to go to
2 one of these facilities, you get 120 days
3 coverage. In the same plan. It makes no
4 sense.
5 We've raised this with the prior
6 Governor's office. We think it's blatant
7 discrimination. We're in the same system,
8 but if you're on Medicare, you get an
9 incredibly diminished benefit. It makes no
10 sense.
11 We mentioned the survivors' benefits.
12 We also think that the people who are in
13 NYSHIP, retirees, you know, we pay the IRMA
14 surcharge, which we get reimbursed for, but
15 there's also a surcharge as it relates to
16 prescription drugs, which the state does not
17 reimburse. The Department of Civil
18 Service doesn't define prescription drugs as
19 a health benefit. Most other people would
20 think that's not the case. So we think
21 language needs to be added to clarify that.
22 We support everything Barbara said
23 about the MCs. We think it's something that
24 could be addressed and should be addressed in
223
1 this budget.
2 So I thank you very much for the
3 opportunity. And I apologize for having
4 disappeared there.
5 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Not a problem.
6 Thank you very much. Glad you got here on
7 time.
8 Senator Jackson, first questions.
9 SENATOR JACKSON: Well, first -- thank
10 you, Madam Chair. First let me thank all of
11 you as representatives of CSEA, PEF -- my
12 union -- and OMCE, your Organization of
13 Management Confidential, and retired
14 employees.
15 Let me just say this to you, that we
16 need you to help us focus on the issues and
17 concerns -- I'm no longer, for example, on
18 the ground -- in the agencies, in the
19 departments, in the facilities. So you are
20 on the ground, and the employees that you
21 represent. So we need to work in a coalition
22 in order to push the agenda forward on the
23 various things that we've been discussing.
24 I appreciate the opportunity to, one,
224
1 be a State Senator that was formerly in state
2 service. Besides that, I worked for a labor
3 union for 23 years. And so I know the issues
4 and concerns, but I have not been on the
5 ground in several years. But I'm hearing
6 loud and clear about Tier 6, about nurses not
7 being paid enough and, as a result of that,
8 people are coming in and earning almost twice
9 as much as they're earning from a salary
10 point of view. Totally unacceptable.
11 So I look forward to working with you.
12 Please communicate with us -- when I say
13 "us," all the legislators -- about what we
14 need to do in order to push the agenda to
15 ensure that our employees are being treated
16 fairly and the packages that they receive is
17 equal to anyone else, so that we can be proud
18 of who we are as state employees, whether
19 we're CSEA, PEF or Management Confidential.
20 I don't have any questions at this
21 point in time, but I want to work with you in
22 order to push the agenda, especially now,
23 when the state is flush with money.
24 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you. Thank
225
1 you, Senator Jackson.
2 Assemblywoman Weinstein, do you have
3 any Assemblymembers? I think you do.
4 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Yes, we do.
5 Assemblyman Ed Ra, three minutes, our ranker.
6 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Thank you all. Good
7 to see you all.
8 Just wondering if -- on behalf of I
9 guess in particular CSEA, PEF, Management and
10 Confidential -- anybody can comment regarding
11 remote work and any ongoing discussions and
12 what you guys would like to see with regard
13 to that.
14 MS. DiANTONIO: I'll -- unless
15 somebody else wants to go first, I'll go
16 first.
17 Telecommuting for our members, in the
18 titles that were able to do it, was extremely
19 productive. They were extremely proficient
20 at getting the work done on behalf of
21 New Yorkers. And frankly we believe not only
22 during COVID, as a safeguard, it should have
23 been maximized to the extent. Which in some
24 agencies it was, at the beginning, but it's
226
1 been rolled back to the point where it's not,
2 you know, for the most part in all agencies.
3 But it is something that we believe as
4 a workforce retention and recruitment tool,
5 it is going to be the wave of our future. We
6 have many, many titles that are able to do a
7 yeoman's job at getting the state's work done
8 remotely. And there's a lot of benefits in
9 terms of cost, both on the work/life balance
10 side, but also to the state.
11 And so we would like to see that as a
12 tool being used moving forward. But we also
13 have to recognize that many agencies are
14 being quite stingy with it and not using it
15 for functions that clearly can do the work.
16 And that's something we're going to be
17 discussing and trying to negotiate, both at
18 the agency level but also in discussions with
19 all of you.
20 (Overtalk.)
21 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Anything from CSEA
22 with regard to that?
23 MR. TERRY: Thanks, Assemblyman.
24 I guess all I'll say on this is for
227
1 the most part for the CSEA members, we -- our
2 members went to work every day because we do
3 the direct care, we're in facilities, we're
4 in institutions, we plow roads. So the vast,
5 vast majority of our membership never stopped
6 going to work.
7 And so this issue for us is not as big
8 a one as I know it is for PEF. And so I'll
9 yield to what they have to say about it from
10 their perspective. But it's just not as big
11 of an issue for us.
12 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Thank you. I think,
13 you know, as was said, even looking at it
14 from a retention and recruitment standpoint,
15 you know, I think we're starting to see this
16 even within the Legislature, especially
17 younger people coming into -- who are looking
18 for that type of flexibility. So thank you.
19 MS. ZARON: May I just add to --
20 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Sure.
21 MS. ZARON: We've had some positive
22 feedback from many members where the program
23 in telecommuting was implemented in a fair
24 and equitable way, and we have had complaints
228
1 on the other side where people felt that they
2 were not treated fairly in comparison with
3 other folks in the workforce.
4 So while we would support
5 telecommuting -- it is the way of the
6 future -- we always are concerned that the
7 employees are treated in a fair and equitable
8 manner. And I think we have work to do to
9 make sure that that happens.
10 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Thank you.
11 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
12 Senator Pete Harckham.
13 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Thank you very
14 much, Madam Chair.
15 Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you
16 all so much for your testimony.
17 Want to talk a little bit more about
18 the bed closure issue and outsourcing. As a
19 couple of you mentioned, in the last decade
20 we saw severe disinvestment in our human
21 resources side, and we saw vast closures of
22 mental health beds, OPWDD state-run
23 facilities, OCFS.
24 (A) What has that done to your
229
1 membership over the last 10 years? And (B)
2 was the private sector able to absorb those
3 patients and those folks who needed care when
4 those facilities were closed?
5 MR. TERRY: Thanks, Senator, that's a
6 really great question.
7 I mean, as you've said, over the
8 last -- since 2014 we've lost over 20 percent
9 of our in-patient Office of Mental Health
10 beds, across the whole system. And I guess
11 as to whether the private sector, the private
12 industries have been able to cover that, I
13 think we can say unequivocally no, they have
14 not. I mean, I think we see it in our county
15 jails, where there are thousands of people
16 awaiting -- you know, needing mental health
17 treatment but they cannot get it. The same
18 in our state correctional facilities, and the
19 people who unfortunately live on our streets
20 that are homeless. There is not capacity in
21 the not-for-profit sector to offer all of
22 these people care.
23 And the state system was always there
24 in order to be the safety net to ensure that
230
1 everybody had a place to go, and that's --
2 we've lost that. We lost sight of it for the
3 last, you know, more than a decade -- it's
4 been longer than that that we've been
5 divesting from this system. But we really
6 need to make a concerted effort to
7 reinvigorate our systems and open up -- you
8 know, if we need new health treatments, if we
9 need new models, then let's start doing them.
10 But it can't be only on the not-for-profit
11 sector to do it. They cannot sustain it.
12 MS. DiANTONIO: And if I might, to
13 just add to that --
14 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Please.
15 MS. DiANTONIO: -- I work in OPWDD,
16 I'm a social worker by trade. And in our
17 system we've lost probably over 3500 beds
18 just in the last nine to 10 years. Most
19 recently, about 100 group homes have closed
20 on the state-operated side because of not
21 only staffing shortages but failure of the
22 state to keep up with the facility management
23 side -- so debilitated homes, to the point
24 where they become unsafe.
231
1 And frankly, people are falling
2 through the cracks. Those on the waiting
3 list are not getting services. But we also
4 have incredibly high-need individuals who are
5 not being adequately served, and they too are
6 falling through the cracks.
7 And as far as the workforce, I
8 think -- you know, for a lot of us, we went
9 into this field for a reason, and it
10 really -- it's devastating to many of the
11 professionals that are not being given --
12 allowed input into some of the placements
13 that are being done. They're just
14 disregarding treatment professionals and the
15 needs of the individuals to sort of deal with
16 the crisis we're in.
17 And I think it would be much better
18 for everyone if we all came to the table and
19 worked on this as a team, versus it being
20 dealt with in the crisis model it has, so ...
21 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Thank you both very
22 much.
23 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you,
24 Senator Harckham. And I believe our last
232
1 testifier is Senator Ramos.
2 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you, Chair
3 Krueger.
4 I wanted to ask Mr. Terry from CSEA,
5 as we know, OCFS has seen a decrease of
6 nearly 30 percent in their budget over the
7 past decade. Can you tell us a little bit
8 about how these budget cuts impact childcare
9 workers? I'm very focused on universal
10 childcare this year, as you might know, and
11 I'm just wondering if you can share the
12 experience of a childcare worker that's a
13 CSEA member right now and what that means in
14 terms of their health and well-being with
15 these cuts.
16 MR. TERRY: Great. Well, thanks,
17 Senator.
18 So as everybody might not know, CSEA
19 represents about 10,000 home-based childcare
20 providers. And while I think some of the
21 cuts that we referred to in our testimony
22 have to do more with the state-operated side
23 of OCFS, the juvenile justice facilities, the
24 cuts that have happened have affected the
233
1 childcare industry.
2 They have not had a raise for
3 subsidized children in a decade. They have
4 not been able to expand -- we've had 1500
5 facilities close, of our group homes, of our
6 childcare centers over the last two years
7 since COVID started.
8 So, I mean, the divestment that we
9 talk about in state operations also goes into
10 the human services, which is -- we will
11 submit testimony on next week, or later this
12 week, rather, to talk about it in more
13 detail. But it runs across the board, I
14 think, in terms of what we're facing that we
15 need to take what we have now and make
16 massive investments in both public services
17 and human services across the board.
18 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you.
19 And Ms. DiAntonio, from PEF, you know,
20 I'm carrying a bill called Treatment, Not
21 Jails that would provide diversion treatment
22 programs to people dealing with mental health
23 and addiction crises who come in contact with
24 the criminal justice system.
234
1 Which investments does the state, you
2 feel, need to focus on in order to get people
3 the help that they need? What cuts in
4 services have occurred over the past 30 years
5 that have exacerbated the current mental
6 health and addiction crises? One thing I
7 talk about a lot is the defunding of
8 psychiatric beds. Can you just talk a little
9 bit about it from the PEF perspective?
10 MS. DiANTONIO: Sure. So as you know,
11 we've lost over 6,000 in-patient psychiatric
12 beds since probably around 2009. You know,
13 those beds are reserved for the most
14 seriously mentally ill. And often for people
15 who are mentally ill, they end up getting
16 caught up in the criminal justice system and
17 in other systems because they don't have the
18 access to services they need.
19 You know, we have been talking about,
20 you know, the need to hire into the Office of
21 Mental Health, to reopen some of those mental
22 health beds. But also, just as importantly,
23 we have downsized our community mental health
24 crisis teams. So a lot of the services that
235
1 our ACT teams did -- which are staffed, by
2 the way, with licensed social workers,
3 registered nurses, community mental health
4 nurses, nurse practitioners, people who have
5 specialized expertise in this field -- and
6 we've outsourced them to private agencies.
7 And frankly, I'm a human service
8 person. Those jobs are generally
9 entry-level. You have someone who goes into
10 a human service field and they get hired to
11 do case management, and they're going out to
12 try and help the most severely impaired
13 people. And it doesn't work. And we've seen
14 it over and over again where people fall
15 through the cracks.
16 We need a serious reinvestment and
17 reevaluation of the mental health system. It
18 is not a bad thing to have every level of
19 care, including in-patient services. I think
20 a diversion program is appropriate. As a
21 social worker, we see many people who end up
22 in the wrong system of care.
23 But in order to do that effectively,
24 you really need to invest into the public
236
1 sector state workforce, because we have the
2 most seasoned and experienced professionals.
3 We don't have the same turnover rate. And
4 often this is a niche, working with people
5 with these kinds of issues. And I would
6 encourage folks to really reevaluate who gets
7 the funding for that work, because again, if
8 the private sector was able to do it, we may
9 not be in the situation we're in, since we've
10 seen 10 years of disinvestment and
11 reinvestment into that sector.
12 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you. And
13 thank you --
14 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you so much for
15 your expert opinion, Ms. DiAntonio.
16 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you both.
17 All right, with that, we're going to
18 thank this panel for their participation, and
19 thank your members for their hard work. And
20 retirees, thank you for your hard work all
21 the years you were working for us.
22 And I'm going to call up the next
23 panel, the Manufacturers Association of
24 New York, Martha Ponge, director of
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1 apprenticeship programs; ALIGN-NY, Maritza
2 Silva-Farrell, executive director; and the
3 NEW Pride Agenda, Elisa Crespo.
4 And we'll just take you in that order,
5 starting with Martha Ponge. I don't know if
6 I'm pronouncing that correctly, sorry.
7 MS. PONGE: Close enough. Pon-jee.
8 Thank you very much, though.
9 Thank you all for the opportunity to
10 speak with you again today about the
11 Manufacturers Alliance Intermediary
12 Apprenticeship Program.
13 As we enter 2022, apprenticeship will
14 continue to be the gold standard of training
15 for our employers, while supporting access to
16 high-tech, high-paying jobs for all
17 individuals, regardless of their work
18 experience or their qualifications.
19 Manufacturing and other high-tech
20 fields are emerging successfully from the
21 pandemic, but they're coming with
22 significantly greater employment needs than
23 they ever had before. This is going to
24 require an even larger investment in
238
1 apprenticeships to meet the increasing
2 demands of our manufacturers.
3 So a few highlights I'd like to share
4 with you. Late last year, MACNY was named a
5 partner in the GAINS Project. GAINS stands
6 for Growing Apprenticeships in
7 Nanotechnologies and Semiconductors. It's
8 the only program of its type in the nation,
9 and it targets those sectors that support our
10 national security and our global
11 competitiveness. As the Governor positions
12 New York State to be a leader in the
13 semiconductor fab area, MIAP will be a
14 leading partner in this effort.
15 MACNY and the alliance partners are
16 continuing to focus on programs that help our
17 youth recover from the pandemic and get them
18 on the road to success with some type of
19 competitive edge. Our alliance partners in
20 Rochester are providing youth apprenticeship
21 opportunities at 30 companies for over
22 350 students in 2022. And that's an increase
23 of 100 percent from the previous year, which
24 is just amazing.
239
1 MACNY recently announced a similar
2 youth program launching in 2022, and all with
3 a laser focus on students from minority and
4 low- and moderate-income communities.
5 Our continued work with the
6 Developmental Disabilities Planning Council
7 and the University of Rochester and our
8 Project Search to Apprenticeship is
9 combating the unemployment rate for
10 individuals who identify with intellectual
11 and developmental disabilities. It builds
12 upon a model that's been utilized by high
13 schools nationally, and it's creating
14 pathways into advanced manufacturing and
15 other high-tech fields. It's a three-year
16 grant and it will expand the state's
17 technical pipeline as well as position
18 New York State as a model for employment of
19 individuals with disabilities.
20 And rounding out our commitment to
21 building diversity, equity and inclusion in
22 registered apprenticeship is Operation Next.
23 And Op Next is a partnership with the
24 Department of Defense which will serve
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1 transitioning soldiers and their dependents,
2 and we'll be training them for the most-in-
3 demand manufacturing jobs. Leveraging the
4 success of MIAP, we are going to position
5 these individuals to move into
6 apprenticeships in New York State, which for
7 us means keeping talent local.
8 There's no doubt that social and
9 economic disparities still exist across the
10 state, and MIAP continues to work diligently
11 so that all New Yorkers will have access to
12 high-paying, high-quality jobs. And we're
13 very thankful to the Legislature for
14 restoring our funding each and every year.
15 However, our funding has remained flat
16 for the past few years at $750,000, and was
17 once again eliminated in the Executive
18 Budget. To continue this highly successful
19 and effective program and meet the growing
20 needs across the state, as illustrated in my
21 testimony, we respectfully request a modest
22 increase to $1 million in funding to sustain
23 and further grow MIAP.
24 And I want to thank you again for your
241
1 continued support of this program, and enjoy
2 the rest of your day. So thank you.
3 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
4 Next up we have Maritza Silva-Farrell.
5 MS. SILVA-FARRELL: Good afternoon.
6 Thank you so much for allowing me to testify
7 this afternoon.
8 My name is Maritza Silva-Farrell. I
9 am the executive director of ALIGN-NY. ALIGN
10 leads the Essential New Yorkers Coalition, a
11 statewide group of over 75 labor unions,
12 worker centers, immigrant rights advocates,
13 legal services providers, occupational health
14 and safety groups, and neighborhood-based
15 community organizations that fought for the
16 NY HERO Act.
17 Our coalition represents millions of
18 essential workers across the state, mostly
19 Black and Latino workers who have been on the
20 front lines of this pandemic for over two
21 years, keeping us safe and healthy and
22 keeping our economy moving. We cannot look
23 at the disproportionate impact that COVID-19
24 has had on communities of color without
242
1 looking at the lack of workplace protections
2 for Black and brown workers.
3 The NY HERO Act protects these workers
4 by creating a permanent airborne infectious
5 disease standard for all private sector
6 workplaces in the state. We've learned so
7 much about the importance of masking,
8 distancing and ventilation in stopping the
9 spread of airborne diseases. NY HERO
10 codifies these lessons into law. It also
11 gives workers a voice on the job by mandating
12 that employers participate in
13 employee-initiated health and safety
14 committees.
15 But passing this law is not enough.
16 In order for NY HERO to truly protect
17 workers, the state must invest in
18 implementing the law. We were glad to see
19 Governor Hochul including an additional
20 12.4 million to the DOL for enforcement of a
21 variety of workers' rights. And while it is
22 great and it is a good start, it is not
23 enough. We need robust enforcement, deep
24 outreach and education of workers and
243
1 employers, a commitment to training, and
2 support for small businesses to make upgrades
3 to protect their workers.
4 A modest investment of $50 million
5 would make all of this possible and save
6 lives. First, enforcement is absolutely
7 critical. Unfortunately, due to years of
8 underfunding by previous administrations, the
9 DOL is unable to adequately investigate
10 workplace COVID safety complaints. Time and
11 again we've heard from workers and members of
12 our coalition that they've filed complaints
13 and never gotten responses. To investigate
14 thousands of NY HERO complaints a week, we
15 estimate that the DOL will need $10 million
16 in funding.
17 Outreach and education is another
18 crucial component that needs state resources,
19 to ensure every worker in New York knows
20 their rights under NY HERO, knows how to
21 protect themselves from COVID-19, and
22 understands how to form a workplace safety
23 committee.
24 Training must also be funded. NY HERO
244
1 allows for every worker committee member to
2 receive four hours of training on
3 occupational health and safety.
4 The Hazard Abatement Board typically
5 gives out grants for health and safety
6 training, but funding was cut during the
7 Cuomo administration, from 6 million to
8 2.5 million --
9 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Can you close up,
10 please.
11 MS. SILVA-FARRELL: Sure. In order to
12 increase the capacity for NY HERO, we believe
13 that we need to restore and increase it to
14 $10 million.
15 And just to wrap up, these modest
16 investments will help fully implement the
17 NY HERO Act and essentially support all of
18 the workers who have sacrificed their lives
19 to be able to keep the economy going.
20 Thank you.
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
22 And our last on the panel, Elisa
23 Crespo.
24 MS. CRESPO: Thank you, Chair Krueger
245
1 and Chair Weinstein, and distinguished
2 members of the committees. My name is Elisa
3 Crespo, and I am the executive director of
4 the NEW Pride Agenda. We are a statewide
5 LGBTQ+ education and advocacy nonprofit.
6 I'm here to talk today about a topic
7 that is near and dear to my heart, the
8 economic status of the LGBTQ+ community, and
9 particularly the Black and brown trans and
10 gender-nonconforming and intersex community
11 in New York State.
12 Historically, trans and
13 gender-nonconforming people have suffered
14 high rates of unemployment due to the
15 everyday hiring biases, on the job
16 discrimination, wage inequities and, up until
17 just a few years ago, a lack of legal
18 protections. A 2015 New York State LGBT
19 health and human services needs assessment
20 revealed that although trans and
21 gender-nonconforming people are educated,
22 they are less likely to be employed.
23 What is more, a report by the National
24 Center for Transgender Equality conducted in
246
1 2015 found that 18 percent of transgender
2 respondents in New York were unemployed, and
3 37 percent were living in poverty. It's also
4 worth noting that 40 percent of the LGBTQ
5 community work in industries that were most
6 affected by the COVID-19 pandemic.
7 Even here, in one of the wealthiest
8 states in the country, there is
9 disproportionate income inequality, high
10 unemployment, and massive segregation among
11 the LGBTQ community. I want to encourage
12 members of the committee to consider a public
13 option for employment or a trans and
14 gender-nonconforming wellness and equity fund
15 to address the longstanding disparities in
16 our community.
17 A public option would provide
18 good-paying government jobs for targeted
19 vulnerable populations that includes but is
20 not limited to the trans and
21 gender-nonconforming community. This would
22 increase our state's tax base and increase
23 revenue for small businesses.
24 In closing, we need programs for
247
1 targeted populations that have historically
2 been underemployed or unemployed. This
3 one-size-fits-all model in workforce
4 development is not working. We are lagging
5 behind as it relates to innovative ideas for
6 specific vulnerable populations. Other
7 countries go as far as providing tax breaks
8 for small businesses that employ trans and
9 gender-conforming people or even setting
10 quotas in civil service positions.
11 I'm pleased that the caucus has
12 expressed support to direct the Department of
13 Labor to conduct a study on the employment
14 status of Black and brown trans and
15 gender-nonconforming people. I think that is
16 a great start. But I hope we actually do
17 something with the devastating information
18 that it's going to reveal when it's
19 concluded.
20 If our recovery is to be done in a
21 equitable and inclusive way, New York State
22 has a moral imperative to increase the
23 socioeconomic status of marginalized
24 communities, of which the LGBTQ community
248
1 belongs to. GENDA and Walking While Trans
2 were great, and we are grateful. But that
3 was the floor, not the ceiling, and we have a
4 lot to do to achieve equity for our
5 communities.
6 Thank you.
7 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
8 And I see Senator Sean Ryan with his
9 hand up. Senator Ryan, are you with us?
10 SENATOR RYAN: Thank you so much.
11 {Zoom static} -- really appreciate this panel
12 and the work you're doing -- {Zoom frozen}.
13 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: You know what, I
14 think you're a little frozen, Senator Ryan.
15 SENATOR RYAN: I can see you, Liz.
16 Can you hear me?
17 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: You know, I can
18 hear you now. Try again.
19 SENATOR RYAN: Okay. I hope you can
20 hear me now.
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Yes.
22 SENATOR RYAN: Great.
23 Thanks to this panel and the good work
24 you're doing. I had a question for Maritza,
249
1 and that is, you know, how is the corporate
2 community responding to the NY HERO and the
3 idea of shifting some power back to the
4 workforce? What -- {audio dropped}.
5 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Maritza, did you
6 get enough of that question? I think we lost
7 Sean towards the end.
8 MS. SILVA-FARRELL: I think I got the
9 sense of it. Let me try it and see if I can
10 answer the best I can.
11 I think the question was how the
12 corporate community is responding to the
13 implementation of NY HERO. Did I get that
14 right?
15 SENATOR RYAN: That's right.
16 MS. SILVA-FARRELL: Well, you know,
17 it's I think a mixed bag. I think in this
18 specific moment, what we've seen is that
19 there are large corporations -- I mean, I
20 want to talk about the big one. Amazon, for
21 example, is the largest, and we continue to
22 see health and safety issues in that
23 corporation, with the warehouses and delivery
24 workers. So we can only tell by, you know,
250
1 how the larger corporations function to
2 actually think about how the rest will do.
3 You know, we also think that there are
4 also some small businesses who want to do the
5 right thing, as I mentioned in my testimony,
6 but do not have enough funding to be able to
7 do installations of, you know, ventilation,
8 HVAC systems and so on and so forth.
9 Therefore, some grants would be helpful for
10 them.
11 But generally large corporations who
12 have the resources are asking for more.
13 SENATOR RYAN: That's interesting.
14 Does your organization have an opinion about
15 noncompete clauses and what they do to the
16 workforce?
17 MS. SILVA-FARRELL: Yes, we do. As a
18 matter of fact, I wanted just to emphasize
19 that, you know, the comments that Governor
20 Hochul and the comments that she included on
21 her draft budget, we were very happy to see
22 that there is some concerns raising around
23 this.
24 We believe that we have to ensure that
251
1 workers have some flexibility and to move
2 around as they need it. As a matter of fact,
3 we are trying right now in the Senate and the
4 Assembly to move a legislation called the
5 21st Century Antitrust law to hold those
6 corporations accountable. Because many large
7 corporations, what they want to do
8 essentially is just keep the workers under
9 their arms and lower the standards of the
10 workforce. So we support the idea of
11 ensuring that that issue is addressed.
12 SENATOR RYAN: Well, that's good.
13 Thank you very much. And I thank everyone
14 for their testimony today.
15 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
16 Do you have any members,
17 Assemblywoman?
18 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Yes.
19 Assemblyman Jacobson, three minutes.
20 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: Yes, thank you.
21 This question is for Martha Ponge of
22 the Manufacturers Alliance. How do you
23 recruit for your internships?
24 MS. PONGE: We are not doing
252
1 internships, we're doing registered
2 apprenticeships. So employers are hiring
3 these individuals, and we are helping them to
4 establish programs at their facilities.
5 What we are doing is offering many
6 more information sessions throughout our
7 communities so that we let a lot of the
8 community partners know that we are
9 supporting the growth of registered
10 apprenticeships and that we are looking for
11 individuals to go into these.
12 We are also supporting our employers
13 with a Career & Talent Platform that allows
14 community organizations to bring their
15 individuals in, create employment profiles
16 and do assessments, and be put into
17 programming after that.
18 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: Specifically,
19 what kind of outreach are you doing with high
20 schools, BOCES and community colleges?
21 MS. PONGE: We work with all three
22 organizations, Assemblyman. Our organization
23 is fortunate to have a K-12 arm called
24 Partners for Education and Business, and
253
1 through Partners for Education and Business,
2 just in the Syracuse area we support seven
3 P-TECH programs. We are the outreach
4 coordinator for the Syracuse City School
5 District, one of the ten most -- ten --
6 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: Yeah, I don't
7 have much time.
8 In Newburgh there is a partnership for
9 P-TECH with IBM and Global Foundries, but
10 nothing is done with BOCES, and Poughkeepsie
11 is very short-changed.
12 So you really have to reach out to the
13 communities that need it. I know the
14 manufacturers want it, but you're not getting
15 to the needs where the need is.
16 My other question is does the
17 Department of Labor -- do they reach out to
18 you, or do you have to go after them?
19 Because they seem to be too laid back, in my
20 opinion.
21 MS. PONGE: The Department of Labor
22 has been wonderful partners with us for the
23 last five years. Every opportunity that
24 we've had to partner with them, they have
254
1 come --
2 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: What do they
3 do -- what do they do specifically to bring
4 the unemployed people that are looking for
5 jobs in contact with your organization for
6 jobs and internships? Are they reaching out
7 to you proactively?
8 MS. PONGE: Our employment training
9 representatives are aware of many
10 individuals, and they will let us know that
11 there's been, you know, a higher level of --
12 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: I know, but
13 does the Department of Labor reach out?
14 Because that -- you know, we're with the
15 state. I can't control what you do, I can
16 control or at least get influence with the
17 Department of Labor. I can't get influence
18 with you. Are they reaching out like they
19 should?
20 MS. PONGE: I believe right now
21 they're doing everything they can. During
22 COVID it was very difficult because
23 90 percent of their individuals were on
24 unemployment insurance claims.
255
1 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: I hope that's
2 true. I don't see it in the Hudson Valley.
3 Thank you.
4 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Thank you.
5 We go back to the Senate.
6 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
7 Senator Robert Jackson.
8 SENATOR JACKSON: Thank you,
9 Madam Chair. Good afternoon -- one second.
10 I need to, okay, start my video. I'm sorry.
11 Hey, good afternoon. Well, first,
12 thank you for coming in and giving testimony.
13 And I wrote down the request that each one of
14 you had -- 50 million, at least 13 million,
15 and Martha, I see that your request is to
16 move from 750K to 1 million.
17 That doesn't seem like a whole lot for
18 what you're doing -- which is great, though.
19 Is that only in the upstate area, or is that
20 around the state?
21 MS. PONGE: We represent seven
22 associations across the state, so we have
23 associations in Buffalo, Rochester, Albany,
24 Syracuse, the Hudson Valley and on
256
1 Long Island. The Capital Region and on
2 Long Island, yup.
3 SENATOR JACKSON: Okay, very good.
4 Yeah, and the reason why I ask that,
5 because quite frankly, I apologize, I have
6 not heard of the program, especially in
7 New York City where I am. But I would assume
8 that there's so many organizations in
9 New York City, you're focusing on the other
10 areas.
11 MS. PONGE: You're right, that
12 $250,000 increase is one of the things that
13 would help us to have a partner in New York
14 City's area.
15 As you know, New York City is -- it's
16 a little bit harder to navigate than some
17 {inaudible} that are out in the more suburban
18 areas, and so finding a partner who can get
19 us in and get us access to employers and to
20 potential apprentices would be a huge help
21 for us.
22 SENATOR JACKSON: Well, I appreciate
23 your advocacy on behalf of all of the people
24 that need it. And this is a message -- you
257
1 may have heard the testimony and questions
2 and answers regarding the civil service, the
3 unit for diversity in the state system, for
4 not only -- you know, I asked, Well, what do
5 you mean, what's your goal? Is your goal to
6 increase the number of people of color, of
7 diversity of LGBTQ individuals?
8 You know, what is your goal? And
9 especially since the additional money is
10 going to be given towards that, I would hope
11 that the goal is to open up for all people,
12 not only people of color and LGBTQ people,
13 but people that have a disability but are
14 able to work.
15 MS. PONGE: Absolutely. Absolutely.
16 SENATOR JACKSON: So that's important
17 to me overall.
18 And so I want to thank you, all three
19 of you, for coming in. And understanding,
20 though, that from an advocacy point of view,
21 you should know to stick together in order to
22 push the agenda as we move towards it in the
23 budgetary process.
24 MS. PONGE: Thank you very much.
258
1 SENATOR JACKSON: I thank all three of
2 you.
3 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
4 I think we have one more Senator,
5 Senator Brad Hoylman, to close.
6 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Thank you,
7 Madam Chair. And thank you to the witnesses
8 today.
9 I want to specifically ask Elisa
10 Crespo about the TGNC wellness fund idea.
11 Where have you seen this concept work? What
12 has the Governor's reception been? And could
13 you describe to us exactly how much you're
14 seeking and what it would be used for?
15 MS. CRESPO: Yes, thank you, Senator,
16 for asking me the question. I appreciate
17 that.
18 We're asking for $15 million
19 specifically. This has been done in the
20 State of California, so it's not
21 unprecedented. Governor Gavin Newsom signed
22 a bill that gave $15 million to service
23 providers specifically for services for the
24 trans and gender-nonconforming community.
259
1 I think -- we've reached out to the
2 Governor's office, we've been in
3 communication with the second floor, and
4 we're continuing to communicate with them. I
5 think our biggest hurdle is recently it was
6 -- the Governor has expressed interest in
7 increasing what we all know as the LGBT
8 health and human services budget. However,
9 we -- you know, that money doesn't really go
10 to organizations that are led by trans and
11 gender-nonconforming individuals, right?
12 Just -- it is what it is.
13 And so we -- the trans and
14 gender-nonconforming community has the
15 greatest needs. Right? We suffer the
16 greatest levels of disparities, lower life
17 expectancies, higher rates of incarceration,
18 homelessness, housing insecurity. And so we
19 need targeted funding that is dedicated
20 towards the trans and gender-nonconforming
21 and intersex and gender-expansive people
22 altogether.
23 And the goal of this fund is to
24 support emerging TGNC leadership and to
260
1 provide -- to address unequal distribution of
2 funding that goes towards organizations led
3 by trans and gender-nonconforming people. We
4 feel that those who are closest to the
5 struggle are closest to the solutions. We
6 just need to be -- have an investment made
7 into our community.
8 SENATOR HOYLMAN: And who --
9 MS. CRESPO: And just to add on to
10 that, Senator -- excuse me -- we do plan to
11 talk with members of the Assembly and the
12 Senate to get support from there as well if
13 we are unsuccessful in getting it done
14 through the amendment process of the
15 Executive Budget.
16 SENATOR HOYLMAN: And very quickly,
17 what is your idea as to which agency or
18 commission would actually administer the
19 fund?
20 MS. CRESPO: Well, it's likely this
21 would -- if everything turns out the way we
22 hope, that it would be administered through
23 the Department of Health, potentially through
24 the new office of -- I think it's health
261
1 equity, a new office of equity, and so I
2 think that would be a fitting place.
3 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Thank you.
4 MS. CRESPO: Thank you.
5 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
6 Assemblywoman, do you have any other
7 members?
8 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: No, we are
9 finished with this panel.
10 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you very
11 much, the three of you panelists.
12 I'm going to move to Panel D, Astor
13 Services for Children & Families, Yvette
14 Barian, chief executive officer; and Network
15 for Sustainable Tomorrow, Adam Flint,
16 director of clean energy programs.
17 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator, I believe
18 we still have Panel C.
19 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Oh, I'm so sorry.
20 I did jump the gun, excuse me. Moved the
21 page too far down.
22 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nice try.
23 (Laughter.)
24 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: I'm sorry,
262
1 Panel C. Let's try again with the Center for
2 New York City Affairs at the New School,
3 James Parrott, director, economic and fiscal
4 policies; and the New York State School of
5 Industrial and Labor Relations at Cornell
6 University, the Worker Institute's executive
7 director, Dr. Patricia Campos-Medina.
8 Hi there, folks. James, why don't you
9 start us out.
10 DR. PARROTT: Should I start?
11 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Yes, please.
12 DR. PARROTT: Thank you, Senator
13 Krueger.
14 Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you
15 for the opportunity to testify at this budget
16 hearing on workforce issues.
17 I've been studying the New York City
18 and New York State economies and economic
19 policies for 30 years. I'd like to speak to
20 four issues this afternoon.
21 One, New York State is still
22 experiencing a 7.5 percent pandemic jobs
23 deficit. In my written testimony, I included
24 a chart that illustrates how much greater our
263
1 jobs deficit is than the national level.
2 It's almost four times what it is in the
3 nation overall. It's not just New York City,
4 but the suburbs and upstate have a jobs
5 deficit more than three times greater than
6 the national jobs deficit.
7 The pandemic's economic effects have
8 been fundamentally lopsided. Low-wage
9 workers have borne the brunt of displacement,
10 as have young workers and workers of color.
11 One example: The unemployment rate in the
12 fourth quarter in New York City for Black
13 workers was 15.2 percent. For white workers,
14 it was 6.3 percent, a dramatic difference.
15 The Division of the Budget in the
16 Executive Budget projects that New York State
17 will not get back to its pre-pandemic
18 employment level until 2024. To address
19 New York State's lagging COVID-19 recovery, I
20 proposed in a policy brief released two weeks
21 ago that the state use some of the federal
22 COVID-19 fiscal relief to fund a massive wage
23 subsidy workforce development redeployment
24 effort.
264
1 The second issue I'd like to address
2 is as we heard earlier, the state's
3 Task Force on Misclassification has not
4 issued an annual report since 2015. Now, we
5 know from our own estimates -- we're in the
6 process of updating a study -- that there are
7 over 350,000 misclassified low-paid
8 independent contract workers in New York
9 City, in transportation, in construction,
10 nail salons, retail, human services, many
11 sectors of the economy. These workers -- our
12 research shows these workers are paid a lot
13 less than their counterparts, who are wage
14 employees, and they don't have access to
15 benefits such as unemployment, workers' comp,
16 Social Security, paid family leave and so on.
17 The third issue. Given how long this
18 pandemic jobs loss has taken place, I would
19 suggest that New York State consider giving a
20 tax credit for unemployment benefits paid in
21 New York State in 2020 and 2021, to workers
22 who are still employed whose incomes are
23 below a certain level.
24 The fourth issue that I'd like to
265
1 address is that it's long overdue for
2 New York State to adjust the state minimum
3 wage. It was last increased in New York City
4 at the end of 2018. We not only need to have
5 an increase and put in a permanent COLA, but
6 we need to have a catch-up proposal to
7 restore some of the lost purchasing power.
8 This is particularly urgent given the current
9 6 percent consumer inflation.
10 Thank you.
11 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
12 And Dr. Campos-Medina.
13 DR. CAMPOS-MEDINA: Hi. Good
14 afternoon, members, Finance Chair Krueger,
15 Ways and Means Committee Chair Weinstein, and
16 Labor Committee Chairs Ramos and Joyner, and
17 all legislators in this hearing today. My
18 name is Patricia Campos-Medina. I am the
19 executive director of the Worker Institute at
20 ILR. Founded in 1944 by the New York State
21 Legislature, ILR is part of the land-grant
22 institution of Cornell University.
23 The importance of your visionary
24 support of our work was clear during the
266
1 crisis of the pandemic, when all of ILR's
2 extension programs turned into halls of
3 information for leaders in the employment
4 relationship, seeking assistance to address
5 the seismic shift in employment relations.
6 Today I will focus my remarks on our
7 request for additional support to help expand
8 our reach in workforce development. Your
9 annual appropriation for the Worker
10 Institute supports research on low-wage
11 workers in the gig economy, such as the food
12 delivery workers and our forthcoming study on
13 the nail salon industry. To help expand our
14 capacity, we are requesting an increase of
15 $200,000 that will help us further our
16 research, training and policy work for a just
17 recovery. This will require an equity lens
18 in creating jobs in the construction
19 industry, in the public sector, that improve
20 the conditions of workers, especially home
21 care workers, as they are mostly women and
22 they are having special needs as they reenter
23 the workforce.
24 Our program on sexual harassment and
267
1 domestic/gender violence supports our
2 education outreach with union and social
3 justice leaders. We are requesting an
4 increase of $200,000 to help us expand on the
5 findings of the ILR 2021 Just Recovery
6 Survey, which revealed that women in New York
7 State still fear retaliation when reporting
8 sexual harassment in the workplace.
9 Our Union Leadership Institute
10 successfully used virtual technology to
11 provide support to worker leaders during the
12 crisis of the pandemic. For next year, we
13 request an increase of $100,000.
14 Our Labor Leading on Climate
15 Initiative has been bold in its approach to
16 advance union job creation in the green
17 economy. With your support of $500,000 last
18 year, we convened trainings of union leaders
19 and members. We conducted research such as
20 the forthcoming "State of the Clean Energy
21 Workforce" for the solar industry in
22 New York. We also join NYLIS {ph} in asking
23 New York State to establish a climate jobs
24 institute at ILR.
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1 The Criminal Justice and Employment
2 Initiative provides legal education to
3 employers and assists workers with criminal
4 records through increasing increase
5 employment opportunities. Your annual
6 support of $187,000 helped us fill a gap in
7 demand for services.
8 The Yang-Tan Institute of Employment
9 and Disability has a long record of working
10 with New York State to provide research and
11 training to make New York State a model
12 employer for workers with disabilities. We
13 are requesting support of $300,000 to
14 continue that work.
15 The Buffalo Co-Lab engages in economic
16 development via community engagement in
17 upstate New York. Your annual support of
18 $300,000 helps us advance research on a
19 Living Wage Atlas that outlines existing
20 categories of work and the profile of the
21 workers in the central and western regions of
22 New York State.
23 Finally --
24 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: I'm going to cut
269
1 you -- oh, finally? Okay, finally, yes.
2 DR. CAMPOS-MEDINA: Finally -- this is
3 the final, yes -- the cannabis workforce
4 initiative is a partnership between ILR and
5 the Workforce Development Institute, and it's
6 ready to help New York implement the social
7 equity and job development goals of the
8 Marijuana Regulation and Taxation Act. We
9 are requesting an infusion of $5 million for
10 that effort.
11 Thank you so much for your support of
12 our Cornell labor programs. We are part of
13 the public mission in the public land-grant
14 colleges of Cornell University, and we thank
15 you always for your support.
16 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
17 I see Senator Ramos with her hand up.
18 SENATOR RAMOS: Rah-mos. Thank you,
19 Chair.
20 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Sorry, excuse me.
21 Senator Ramos.
22 SENATOR RAMOS: I love this panel.
23 This is a great panel. Lots of things to
24 talk about.
270
1 I'm going to start with Mr. Parrott.
2 You touched upon misclassification of
3 workers. I'm wondering if you can talk about
4 what policy changes can we make to increase
5 the transparency of how Black Car Funds are
6 used, and what the New York State Legislature
7 should be doing to get Uber to pay what they
8 owe us on unemployment insurance.
9 DR. PARROTT: Thank you for those
10 questions.
11 You know, in the past five years,
12 given the tremendous increase in Uber and
13 Lyft trip volume in New York State,
14 particularly in New York City, the Black Car
15 Fund has taken in hundreds of millions of
16 dollars, and yet I don't believe there is
17 any, I mean any, public information available
18 on the Black Car Fund.
19 It's very puzzling to me why it's not
20 part of the state's Workers' Comp Board. But
21 when it was set up, it was set up as a
22 nonprofit shielded from the elementary
23 guidelines for transparency and
24 accountability. I think it's long overdue to
271
1 look under that hood a little bit, see what
2 benefits they are paying, see what's being
3 done with the tremendous amount of money
4 that's being taken in.
5 I don't know what else to say in terms
6 of what New York State should be doing to
7 collect the long-overdue and mounting --
8 SENATOR RAMOS: How much is it? Do
9 you know how much it is -- how much does Uber
10 owe New York State for UI?
11 DR. PARROTT: So I don't know that off
12 the top of my head.
13 I do know that New Jersey two years
14 ago sued Uber for $600 million in unpaid
15 unemployment taxes. It's very likely that
16 the trip volume in New York State is a
17 multiple of what it was in New Jersey, plus
18 an additional time period since then, plus
19 the fact that Lyft owes us payroll taxes as
20 well.
21 So it's pretty significant. It
22 obviously comes at a time when the UI trust
23 fund has a huge deficit. Many of the workers
24 in those industries --
272
1 SENATOR RAMOS: I'm sorry,
2 Mr. Parrott, I'm going to cut you off because
3 I have just a few seconds.
4 I wanted to ask Dr. Campos-Medina
5 about the price of getting your nails done in
6 New York, how it compares across the state,
7 right? Can you talk a little bit about the
8 industry and, you know, what the state of
9 workers is there?
10 DR. CAMPOS-MEDINA: Yes. You know,
11 this is one of those industries that you
12 would think that because in New York City
13 there's more, that it would be better working
14 conditions and they're able to manage their
15 conditions better.
16 What we have found in our research --
17 and it's almost done, and we can send you an
18 update of our report -- is that the cost of
19 the nail salons in New York City is the
20 lowest in the entire state, and yet that
21 makes it impossible for workers, which are
22 mostly women and immigrant workers, to
23 actually make a living. And they are so
24 prone to instances of wage theft and
273
1 misclassification as well, so -- and also
2 exposure to health and safety conditions that
3 are just making their everyday lives very
4 difficult.
5 So we are looking for solutions that
6 create more of an ability for these workers
7 to raise the standards and actually ask for
8 better wages in the southern part of the
9 state, which is where the services are used
10 more, than in the northern part of the state,
11 which is -- there shouldn't be that
12 differential, but that's what we're seeing.
13 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you.
14 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
15 Senator Sean Ryan.
16 SENATOR RYAN: Thank you very much.
17 To Mr. Parrott, I'd like to be able to
18 keep looking at the Black Car Fund, because
19 we don't want that to be a Black Car Fund
20 that lives in a black box that none of us
21 could ever see the inside of. So we should
22 keep looking at that.
23 And to Dr. Campos-Medina, you know, I
24 really appreciate the work that Cornell does
274
1 on its public side, as the land-grant
2 college, to try to create a just economy in
3 New York State. And as you well know, we've
4 had an ILR unit in Buffalo since the '40s
5 when they created the ILR.
6 But really during the pandemic, your
7 school really shined in terms of helping us
8 figure out where the workers went. And the
9 answer was -- is -- there's not enough
10 childcare to go along to the workers, as well
11 as the digital divide and the awful impact
12 it's had on working people and low-wage
13 people in New York State.
14 So I really look forward to working
15 with you, but also about this intentionality
16 of the economy. The economy doesn't become a
17 fair, just and high-wage place because supply
18 and demand in the private market make it that
19 way, it becomes a fair, just and high-wage
20 place because of a well-regulated economy
21 that's intentional and strategic, like the
22 fund being used to make sure that people
23 entering into what we hope to be the
24 burgeoning marijuana workforce, are people
275
1 who come from our communities but also will
2 get paid jobs that can sustain themselves and
3 their families.
4 So thank you both for the work you do.
5 The economy just doesn't happen.
6 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
7 Senator Savino.
8 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you,
9 Senator Krueger.
10 I want to specifically speak to
11 Dr. Campos-Medina about the cannabis
12 curriculum that you guys are developing at
13 Cornell's ILR School. By the way, I am a
14 proud graduate of the Cornell ILR School --
15 20 years ago already, my God. I'm aging
16 rapidly here.
17 (Laughter.)
18 SENATOR SAVINO: But I'm interested,
19 so what are we doing? Because as we know,
20 hopefully within the next year we will have
21 legal dispensaries available in all parts of
22 the state. But we're going to have a
23 thriving industry with everything from
24 growers to cultivators to processors, to
276
1 people who are going to be starting their own
2 businesses, in a very complicated landscape
3 of an industry that is legal in the four
4 corners of our state but not legal with
5 respect to the federal government.
6 So what are we doing to create a
7 curriculum and train people for this
8 complicated yet very exciting industry?
9 DR. CAMPOS-MEDINA: Thank you for that
10 question. And thank you for elevating the
11 work that we do.
12 Most of the work -- the work that we
13 do in the extension program is always in
14 partnership with our stakeholders -- whether
15 it be business, labor leaders, attorneys --
16 who are looking for an effective way of
17 changing the way things are done. So all of
18 our cannabis workforce initiative is actually
19 a partnership with the Workforce Development
20 Institute, and we brought together labor
21 unions who will be representing that industry
22 and community leaders who are concerned about
23 the equity components of job creation, and
24 making sure that the communities that were
277
1 formerly impacted by the criminalization of
2 cannabis actually get opportunities to get
3 jobs.
4 So the training combined what is the
5 law, what are the skills needed, and how do
6 we make sure that the workers that come from
7 the communities that were impacted are
8 prepared to do the work but also understand
9 their rights and are able to demand, in
10 collective bargaining, better wages that will
11 actually drive economic investment in the
12 local community.
13 So this is -- we're excited about this
14 project. And it builds on the work that we
15 have been doing on the criminal justice
16 training program in which we actually were
17 able to create a curriculum for criminally
18 impacted workers coming out of the justice
19 system. And so we have a long experience
20 developing and working with communities that
21 need a type of "know your rights," but also
22 what are the potential for new skills that
23 need to be created in the industry, which is
24 important.
278
1 SENATOR SAVINO: Great. Thank you
2 very much.
3 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
4 Assembly?
5 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: We have --
6 Assemblywoman Griffin has a question, and we
7 also have Assemblyman Ra afterwards.
8 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GRIFFIN: Okay, thank
9 you, Chairs.
10 For Mr. Parrott, I just wondered if
11 you could elaborate on your suggestion of tax
12 credits for unemployment benefits.
13 DR. PARROTT: Sure. So New York
14 State, as several other states do, taxes
15 unemployment benefits.
16 During the pandemic -- during the
17 first two years of the pandemic, several
18 states waived the taxation of unemployment
19 benefits. New York State did not do that.
20 The federal government waived the taxation of
21 the first $10,000 of benefits.
22 Here we are, now almost two years
23 after the beginning of the pandemic, which as
24 I said at the outset, hit New York State
279
1 disproportionately hard. You know, our jobs
2 deficit is three and a half times what it is
3 at the national level. Many people, half of
4 the people unemployed in New York State, have
5 been unemployed for more than six months. A
6 quarter of the total have been unemployed for
7 over a year.
8 The various federal economic
9 assistance programs have all ended. So, you
10 know, we're starting to see an increase in
11 hardship. The unemployment that exists out
12 there is by no means mainly, you know,
13 voluntary unemployment. It's people whose
14 jobs have not come back and they're not able
15 to return to those.
16 So as a way -- as a low-cost way,
17 effectively, of providing additional
18 assistance targeted to the people who are
19 still unemployed, if we waived -- if we gave
20 them a tax credit for taxes they would have
21 paid -- a refundable tax credit back to 2020
22 and benefits they received in 2021, you know,
23 that could provide a modest but meaningful
24 amount of assistance to a lot of people.
280
1 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GRIFFIN: (Muted.)
2 DR. PARROTT: I believe you're on
3 mute, Assemblymember.
4 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Senator, do you
5 have -- Senator Krueger, I believe you're
6 muted.
7 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: I apologize.
8 Yes, Senator Tom O'Mara's hand popped up
9 there.
10 SENATOR O'MARA: Yes, thank you.
11 thank you, Chairwoman.
12 Just briefly to both of you, we have a
13 seemingly historic low labor participation
14 rate in New York State and across the country
15 right now. Can you address generally the
16 causes for that and what we should be doing
17 about it?
18 DR. PARROTT: So I've actually been
19 looking at those numbers each quarter. We
20 just recently got the data for the fourth
21 quarter. And while there's been some
22 drop-off in the labor force participation
23 rate, in New York State it's by no means the
24 same fall-off that we've seen at the national
281
1 level.
2 The BLS publishes a monthly survey for
3 all states on job openings, the quit rate and
4 so on. And in all of those indicators,
5 New York State is at the bottom. That is, we
6 have the fewest number of new hires, the
7 lowest number of job openings, the lowest
8 number of people quitting their jobs
9 voluntarily.
10 So it's important to keep that in
11 mind. The narrative that you hear at the
12 national level about the Great Resignation
13 and a lot of people, you know, choosing to
14 stay unemployed and so on -- I'm not saying
15 it doesn't apply at all in New York, but it
16 applies on a much smaller scale in New York
17 than it does around the country.
18 DR. CAMPOS-MEDINA: I would like to
19 address the issue of the voluntary separation
20 from some members of the workforce,
21 specifically in the care economy, whether it
22 be home care, healthcare, and in the low-wage
23 industry, which is an industry that we study
24 a lot, and we have several reports that
282
1 address those concerns.
2 And what we have seen is that most of
3 that workforce, whether it be in the care,
4 healthcare, home care, childcare -- most of
5 those workers are women, perhaps that
6 themselves don't have access to healthcare,
7 don't have access to paid sick leave or paid
8 family leave, so they have to balance their
9 choices between taking -- going to work and
10 taking care of their children.
11 And so what we would like to do is to
12 be able to figure out, with you, what are the
13 policies that we need to do, specifically to
14 address the great shortage that New York
15 State has, which is bigger than the rest of
16 the country around home care workers. And
17 that takes a combination of addressing their
18 health and safety concerns, improving their
19 wages -- because we have very precarious
20 levels of wages in that industry -- and also
21 perhaps some public policy solutions around
22 access to healthcare and access to paid leave
23 and sick leave and all the other things that
24 will make those jobs better jobs for women to
283
1 be able to choose to return to work.
2 So we are in the -- this is part of
3 the research that we would like to engage on
4 in figuring out how do we make jobs in the
5 care economy better jobs so that we can
6 encourage the return of women, specifically,
7 to the workforce and help them figure out how
8 to do that.
9 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you for that.
10 I certainly agree wholeheartedly on the
11 childcare side of things. But one thing you
12 didn't mention I think that hurt a lot of
13 those positions was bumping up the fast food
14 minimum wage to above those lower-level
15 healthcare jobs, causing a lot of people to
16 leave for easier work, more consistent hours
17 of -- at least when they could go home,
18 rather than being stuck at work.
19 So look forward to working on these
20 issues. Thank you.
21 DR. CAMPOS-MEDINA: Thank you,
22 Senator.
23 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you,
24 Senator O'Mara.
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1 Assembly, I think you had one more.
2 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: No, Senator
3 O'Mara cleared up the issue we had.
4 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Okay. Then I
5 believe we are done with this panel. Thank
6 you both very much for your testimony --
7 DR. CAMPOS-MEDINA: Thank you so much.
8 DR. PARROTT: Thank you.
9 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: -- your written
10 testimony and your spoken testimony.
11 And now we are up to Panel D,
12 Astor Services for Children & Families,
13 Yvette Bairan; and Network for a Sustainable
14 Tomorrow, Adam Flint.
15 Hello, folks.
16 MR. FLINT: Good afternoon.
17 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Good afternoon.
18 MS. BAIRAN: Hello, good afternoon.
19 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Let's start with
20 Yvette, thank you.
21 MS. BAIRAN: Good afternoon, and thank
22 you for providing me with this opportunity.
23 You know, I've been listening, and I'm
24 really so impressed. Everyone is asking the
285
1 right questions. All of you are really well
2 versed in understanding so many of the issues
3 that providers are facing in the community,
4 and I want to thank you for that.
5 My name is Yvette Bairan, and I am the
6 chief executive officer of Astor Services for
7 Children & Families. We serve children and
8 young adults, adolescents and families in the
9 Mid-Hudson Valley area of New York as well as
10 the Bronx. We serve children who have mental
11 health needs in the community. We also
12 provide school-based mental health services
13 and early childhood developmental programs.
14 What better conversation than to talk
15 about mental health in this pandemic, right?
16 I mean, mental health has always been around.
17 It doesn't discriminate against anyone. And
18 yet it took a pandemic to really bring it to
19 the forefront the way that we've been seeing
20 it over the last two years.
21 I would like to testify today about
22 the alarming workforce shortage facing many
23 mental health service providers that is only
24 getting worse by the day. We really need
286
1 investments in the children's mental health
2 workforce, a group that has been
3 traditionally underpaid yet on the frontline
4 caring for the most vulnerable.
5 We have many industries that are
6 struggling. We've heard many of them today.
7 We've had a lot of compelling issues and
8 discussions here today. But how many
9 industries can you say are saving people's
10 lives, are saving children's lives? We
11 hear -- there's not a week that goes by that
12 I don't hear from one of my staff that we had
13 a child who was cutting themselves or someone
14 who took pills in an attempt at suicide. So
15 we have to invest in mental health because
16 we're saving children, we're saving families,
17 we're saving lives.
18 And I have to say that this pandemic
19 has been a real testament to the resiliency
20 of many of the people that work in this
21 industry, and I am also so proud of the work
22 that we have been able to do regardless of
23 this pandemic and the fact that schools had
24 to close and so many of our workforce ended
287
1 up having to be remote.
2 We, like many other industries,
3 experienced what we now have called the Great
4 Resignation. And I keep asking and people
5 keep asking me, where do you think these
6 employees went? What do you think has
7 happened? And, you know, and I joke around
8 and I say, you know, I think somebody
9 developed a colony and didn't invite us.
10 (Laughter.)
11 MS. BAIRAN: Because I have no idea
12 where they went. I don't know.
13 You know, someone just mentioned a few
14 minutes ago the realities that we are
15 struggling related to employment of
16 individuals in other industries, and
17 McDonald's, and Amazon. And I would like to
18 say that we have to invest in our workforce,
19 we have to invest in sustaining reimbursable
20 rates so that we can compete with larger
21 organizations in other industries. And we
22 need to make sure that industries that --
23 like ours that are saving people's lives are
24 at the forefront of workforce reinvestment.
288
1 So thank you so much for your time,
2 and I hope that we can count on your support.
3 And we thank you for all that you have done
4 and continue to do to support our communities
5 and workers.
6 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
7 And next, Adam.
8 MR. FLINT: Thanks very much,
9 Chair Weinstein (sic) and the joint committee
10 members for this opportunity to testify.
11 My name is Adam Flint. I direct clean
12 energy programs at Network for a Sustainable
13 Tomorrow in Binghamton, New York. I am here
14 today representing the New York State Climate
15 and Clean Energy Careers Working Group, which
16 convened last year with a wide range of
17 collaborators from around the state and
18 across the ecosystem. This testimony will
19 outline some of our initial proposals.
20 The bottom line here is that
21 New York's existing education and workforce
22 system is not prepared to meet the workforce
23 needs necessary to achieve the state's
24 ambitious clean energy goals. This problem
289
1 was acute prior to the passage of the Climate
2 Leadership and Community Protection Act, or
3 CLCPA, and will become an emergency once the
4 act is in full effect next year and the
5 market grows and we don't have the workers
6 necessary to meet that growth.
7 Within the CLCPA the workforce
8 component is limited to the just transition,
9 which is very important but does not
10 systematically address the problem overall.
11 Specific near-term initiatives as well as
12 major systemic changes are required.
13 I will illustrate this urgent need
14 with a case in point happening right now in
15 my backyard in the Central Southern Tier,
16 along with a sampling of the policy
17 recommendations that flow from that.
18 At the Huron campus in Endicott, which
19 at one time was the global headquarters of
20 IBM, companies Imperium 3 and Ubiquity Solar
21 will be manufacturing, respectively, lithium
22 ion batteries and solar panels. Starting
23 this year, they will need 300 workers just
24 this year. An hour away, the Ithaca
290
1 decarbonization program, where they plan to
2 electrify all 6200 buildings in the city,
3 plus transit, by 2030 -- which has the
4 attention of the White House -- they will
5 need to fill at least 300 positions in
6 Year 1. All three together will likely see
7 needs in the low thousands, and that's
8 conservative, well before 2030.
9 From grade schools to the colleges and
10 universities, for youth and adult learners,
11 and for the underserved and mid-career
12 workers, we lack the needed clean energy
13 career system to meet the expansion of our
14 energy economy. So here are a few of our
15 proposals.
16 First, we propose that an interagency
17 Clean Energy Careers Pathways Working Group
18 be convened to include at least the
19 Department of Labor, SED, SUNY and CUNY,
20 Empire State Development, and NYSERDA. I
21 will just mention parenthetically that a lot
22 of these agencies have been talking with each
23 other. The one that's been AWOL? State
24 Education. Something's got to be done --
291
1 yesterday.
2 We need a broad and granular state
3 mapping of clean energy workforce training
4 and education needs, assets, missing pieces
5 with candidate tracking. We need a massive,
6 long-term outreach, education and marketing
7 campaign so that this huge opportunity does
8 not remain a secret, especially for kids in
9 grade school. We need to turn them on to
10 this and motivate their parents, like my
11 generation did, around smoking in the '70s.
12 Since the 1980s -- and this is my
13 close -- the neoliberal agenda has degraded
14 our technical education system and hollowed
15 out our public education system, forcing
16 education and workforce professionals into a
17 just-in-time approach. This state should
18 mark, hopefully, the end of the pandemic by
19 allocating very significant resources and
20 making major systematic reforms to meet the
21 workforce needs set by our ambitious clean
22 energy and climate goals, with a strong
23 equity lens.
24 Thank you.
292
1 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you both
2 for your testimony.
3 I see the hand of Jessica Ramos.
4 SENATOR RAMOS: Yes, thank you.
5 Well, I just want to make a comment
6 for Adam. You should connect with Cornell,
7 who is now working on a workforce development
8 plan for climate jobs across the state. You
9 might want to connect with Lara Skinner if
10 you don't know her already.
11 MR. FLINT: I'm trying. Good
12 recommendation. Everybody says that. She's
13 very busy.
14 SENATOR RAMOS: Okay, well let me
15 know. Maybe I can help.
16 MR. FLINT: Appreciate it.
17 SENATOR RAMOS: And with Yvette,
18 Yvette, I can't -- I don't even know where to
19 begin. You know, I've introduced my Early
20 Learning Childcare Act this year precisely
21 because I believe we need to move towards a
22 caring economy, which means that we're making
23 meaningful investments in wages for care
24 economy workers, whether it's childcare,
293
1 elder care, nursing home care. We see the
2 increased need here.
3 And I just want to say because of one
4 of the previous comments that had been made,
5 it's not that fast-food workers make too
6 much, it's that care workers make too little.
7 And I just want, Yvette, if you can
8 expound a little bit on what that pay is
9 like, especially for mental health workers
10 that are working with children, especially at
11 such a critical time. We know many children
12 might even be grieving their parents; that's
13 the truth. So can you tell us a little bit
14 about what a mental health worker with
15 children goes through, how much they're paid,
16 what their life is like?
17 MS. BAIRAN: Sure. So right now we
18 have -- and remember mental health, because
19 it's such a specialty, we require a lot of
20 licensed clinicians. You can't just have,
21 you know, anyone providing mental health
22 services. We need licensed clinical social
23 workers, we need licensed mental health
24 practitioners, we need the very skilled
294
1 individuals to do that.
2 And right now you have the average
3 pay, depending on the state, whether or not
4 you're in the city versus outside of the
5 city, but we're competing with industries
6 where now they're doing telehealth only and
7 they're paying them between 90,000 to
8 $100,000. That's almost double what we're
9 able to afford our workers. We're able to
10 pay between 45,000 and $55,000 a year for a
11 licensed person. Meanwhile, you have these
12 other industries now jumping on the bandwagon
13 of telehealth and doing it, you know, where
14 people are doing it remotely and making
15 almost double what we're able to offer.
16 And we are serving the most vulnerable
17 populations -- children at high risk of
18 hospitalization.
19 SENATOR RAMOS: Why do you think that
20 is, though? Is it just the fact that they
21 have the platform, the marketing platform, so
22 it's harder for you guys to compete?
23 MS. BAIRAN: Well, part of it is
24 rates. Right? So it's reimbursable rates,
295
1 either for residential treatment facilities,
2 for outpatient clinics -- just a lack of
3 parity between primary care rates and
4 behavioral health rates. And that's been
5 another conversation that we've been engaged
6 in.
7 So it's real lack of parity and
8 there's definitely a need. And I see our
9 friend here Sue Serino, who's very much well
10 aware of the issues that we confront.
11 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you.
12 MS. BAIRAN: Thank you.
13 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
14 I believe Senator Sue Serino has her
15 hand up.
16 SENATOR SERINO: Thank you,
17 Madam Chair.
18 And Yvette, it's so nice to see you,
19 and --
20 MS. BAIRAN: Nice to see you.
21 SENATOR SERINO: I met with the
22 parents group from Astor, and oh my God. You
23 know, your heart breaks for them. And they
24 reiterated the things that you're saying.
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1 And just wanted to know if there's
2 anything -- you know, we all recognize that
3 the workers need to of course have an
4 increase in salary. But is there anything
5 else that we can do in this body to help you
6 obtain and retain the workers, any other
7 ideas that you might have? Because the
8 shortages are just amazing, like you
9 mentioned earlier.
10 MS. BAIRAN: Absolutely. Something
11 that wasn't actually in my written testimony
12 and I didn't have a chance to mention, you
13 gave me the excellent opportunity to do that
14 now, so thank you for that.
15 Some of you may or may not know that
16 there's actually legislation being proposed
17 from both the Assembly and the Senate to
18 address the critical workforce shortages in
19 public mental health related to the scope of
20 practice. So there's a -- for those -- this
21 dramatic shortage has been masked by the need
22 for more diagnosing professionals. We need a
23 mechanism that allows for qualified mental
24 health professionals to diagnose, and
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1 diagnosing is definitely something that is
2 critical in our industry. And because of the
3 restrictions in the scope of practice in our
4 state, we're coming up to an issue related to
5 that, that there is legislation on. And
6 Senator Serino, you may be aware of that
7 already, but there is something related to
8 the scope of practice that both the Assembly
9 and the State Senate could support us with.
10 And I believe one of them is Senator Bronson
11 (sic) who's the head of one of the bills, and
12 I forget the other one. But those are two
13 bills that we really need a lot of support
14 on.
15 SENATOR SERINO: Thank you, Yvette.
16 I'm glad that you had the opportunity to talk
17 about it and have all my colleagues be aware
18 of it as well. And once again, you do an
19 amazing job. Thank you. Your team is great.
20 So thank you.
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
22 Assemblywoman, I believe you have an
23 Assembly hand?
24 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Yes,
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1 Assemblyman Bronson.
2 MS. BAIRAN: Oh, yes, thank you.
3 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: Thank you,
4 Chair.
5 And Yvette, thank you. And you piqued
6 my interest with your answer to the last
7 question regarding Assembly Bill 6008, which
8 for the viewers relates to a diagnosis for
9 mental health counselors, psychoanalysts, and
10 marriage and family therapists, which is
11 going to sunset in June if we don't do
12 something.
13 My question for you is I've heard a
14 lot about the impact in our community-based
15 organizations and otherwise. If that were to
16 sunset and we don't come up with a permanent
17 solution, what kind of impact would that have
18 on providing mental health services to our
19 families and our children in New York?
20 MS. BAIRAN: That's an excellent
21 question. And it will have a huge impact
22 because about 30 percent of our workforce are
23 licensed mental health counselors. And our
24 inability for them to diagnose is going to --
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1 basically, we won't be able -- we'll have to
2 have other like clinical social workers that
3 are licensed do the signing and the
4 diagnosing of treatment plans and other kinds
5 of documentations that are regulated by the
6 state.
7 So it's potentially -- potentially
8 it's the loss of jobs for 30 percent of our
9 workforce that are licensed in our
10 organization. Because we need them to
11 diagnose, and they're a large, large
12 workforce in our organization.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: And these are
14 professions, the mental health counselors,
15 the marriage and family therapists, as well
16 as psychoanalysts, they've had this as part
17 of their scope of practice through an
18 exemption for over 20 years, is that correct?
19 MS. BAIRAN: That is correct.
20 ASSEMBLYMAN BRONSON: So they've been
21 doing this work for 20 years and because it
22 has a sunset, we're not going to let them do
23 it if we don't create a permanent solution.
24 And in fact, in this bill that permanent
300
1 solution is modernizing the educational
2 component and the clinical requirements for
3 all of these disciplines to lift them up,
4 notwithstanding they've been doing this work
5 for over 20 years.
6 The impact really is about the folks
7 you serve and our families and our children
8 across the state. So I thank you for
9 recognizing that bill, and I'm putting folks
10 on notice in this public hearing -- the
11 sunset's in June of this year. And we really
12 need to take care of this. And hopefully,
13 hopefully we can take care of it through the
14 budget process.
15 But thank you, Yvette, for all the
16 work you're doing and for your answering
17 these questions. Thank you.
18 MS. BAIRAN: Thank you.
19 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: Back to the
20 Senate.
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: I believe Senator
22 Robert Jackson to close.
23 SENATOR JACKSON: Thank you.
24 First, let me thank both of you for
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1 staying in this hearing and giving us your
2 input on the issue and concern.
3 As far as a licensed social worker, I
4 know specifically because my brother-in-law
5 works as a licensed social worker in a
6 homeless shelter in Brooklyn. And let me
7 tell you, he's still trying to pay off all of
8 the college loans that he has still pending
9 after years and years and years, based on the
10 fact that his salary is not, in my opinion,
11 what he rightfully deserves.
12 And if in fact we lose -- as
13 Assemblymember Bronson said, when this law
14 sunsets in June, we're going to be in deep
15 trouble. And if I was someplace else, I
16 would say deep (coughing). And we can't go
17 there.
18 But one of the things I didn't see in
19 your testimony is, is there a cost factor
20 involved? And as an organization, are you
21 requesting money in the budget, and by how
22 much? I know the Climate Leadership and
23 Community Protection Act is talking about
24 15 billion a year. But I think you need to
302
1 say how much we are requesting in order so
2 that every member of the Senate and Assembly
3 that's on here, and for the record, needs to
4 know how much it costs.
5 And I'll be glad to listen to any
6 response that you have to that.
7 MS. BAIRAN: Yeah, I know that we've
8 made requests of a million dollars for
9 improvement in our workforce around
10 retention.
11 But what we're also looking for is
12 ongoing sustainable rates, rates so that
13 there's more parity with primary care. And
14 if we can get sustainability long term
15 related to the rates, that is going to make
16 the kind of impact that we need long term.
17 SENATOR JACKSON: Okay, and I think we
18 can follow up with that.
19 As far as those rates to change, is
20 that within legislation or that is with the
21 State Education Department or who sets the
22 rate? I don't know that, but we'll find that
23 out down the road. So I appreciate that.
24 And brother, how come -- is there a
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1 cost factor involved? Adam, you talked
2 about -- is it $15 billion a year that people
3 are talking about with climate protection, a
4 year?
5 MR. FLINT: So if that was a year, I
6 think we could cover it within the $15
7 billion.
8 I will also say, though, that a lot of
9 the things we're specifically asking for are
10 things that are needed across -- certainly
11 across STEM and technical education. Right?
12 And so that's something that hopefully can be
13 holistically addressed within the budgets of
14 the two houses and the Governor.
15 But the systemic reforms involving SED
16 are just really a big deal. And I don't know
17 how much that costs, but it does require
18 political will. So if I have to single out
19 something right now, it was this. I know I'm
20 kind of in the wrong committee. I wasn't
21 able to testify in the Education Committee,
22 unfortunately. But this is a cross-platform
23 set of challenges, as you know.
24 SENATOR JACKSON: Okay. Well, I heard
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1 you say that earlier, so I appreciate that,
2 and I wrote that down to follow up on.
3 Thank you, both. Thank you,
4 Madam Chair.
5 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you, both
6 of you, for your testimony on this panel.
7 We are now moving to Panel E: Make
8 the Road New York, Julissa Bisono,
9 co-director of organizing; and New York
10 communities for change, Lucas Sanchez, deputy
11 director. We'll go in that order.
12 Hello, Julissa.
13 MS. BISONO: Hi, good afternoon.
14 Good afternoon, everyone. My name is
15 Julissa Bisono. I'm the co-director of the
16 organizing team at Make the Road New York.
17 We represent over 24,000 members fighting for
18 dignity and respect in their communities.
19 At the start of the pandemic, we
20 witnessed how thousands of immigrant workers
21 were forced to the frontline with nothing to
22 survive. I am here on behalf of the 90 Make
23 the Road members who have lost their lives
24 due to COVID. I am here on behalf of
305
1 thousands of suffering families who are still
2 excluded from relief and are now facing
3 eviction, many who are not granted the same
4 protections to healthcare or unemployment
5 benefits.
6 When New York's leaders passed the
7 Excluded Worker Fund, thousands of families
8 got back on their feet. People were able to
9 leave abusive relationships and workplaces,
10 cover funeral expenses and medical bills
11 because of the fund. But it was not enough.
12 Over 75,000 eligible applicants to the
13 fund were denied because the money literally
14 ran out. They had applied in the last week,
15 and were just days late. That alone
16 demonstrates the dire need for this relief.
17 There are thousands more workers who have yet
18 to receive any help. Excluded workers are
19 still in crisis.
20 By replenishing the Excluded Workers
21 Fund with an additional $3 billion, you
22 are investing in the recovery of over 100,000
23 more hardworking New Yorkers. This fund has
24 inspired over five states across the country
306
1 to pass similar relief measures. But we urge
2 the Legislature to take it one step further.
3 Unemployment insurance was born out of
4 the Great Depression, so let's learn from
5 this crisis and include the most vulnerable
6 workers in our safety net -- for good.
7 New York State legislators must pass a
8 permanent alternative to unemployment
9 insurance by passing the "Excluded No More"
10 legislation, which is sponsored by Senator
11 Jessica Ramos and Assemblymember Karines
12 Reyes. This program would include coverage
13 for over 50,000 people, particularly workers
14 earning less than $57,000 and workers paid in
15 cash with very small employers and
16 self-employed workers facing
17 {unintelligible}.
18 It will provide applicants with a flat
19 payment that matches the average New York
20 State unemployment insurance, currently $1200
21 per month. This program will cost
22 $800 million in the first year, and any
23 surplus will be rolled over to the following
24 year.
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1 So the Excluded Worker Unemployment
2 Program has received overwhelming support by
3 the Black, Puerto Rican, and Hispanic Caucus
4 and was included in this year's "People's
5 Budget." So we really, really wish this to
6 pass.
7 And just like real quick, I also want
8 to say New York must also talk about passing
9 the worker shortage for the home care,
10 because there's definitely a shortage right
11 now with New York workers in the home care
12 business.
13 Thank you.
14 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
15 Lucas, next.
16 MR. SANCHEZ: Good afternoon,
17 everyone. So good afternoon. My name is
18 Lucas Sanchez, and I am the deputy director
19 of New York Communities for Change. And I'm
20 here to testify in support of an additional
21 $3 billion for the Excluded Worker Fund and
22 the first-ever permanent unemployment
23 benefits program for excluded workers in our
24 state, as well as Fair Pay for Home Care.
308
1 I'm here on behalf of NYCC's 20,000
2 members across New York City and Long Island
3 that are waiting on the State Legislature to
4 act once again. We have lost too many people
5 who did not have a choice to stay home in the
6 pandemic. Without protections like
7 unemployment insurance or access to
8 healthcare, thousands of our Black and brown
9 and immigrant members were forced to go out
10 to get to work and get sick. Our people were
11 hailed as heroes, but they were sacrificed in
12 this crisis.
13 New York intervened by passing the
14 Excluded Workers Fund, and thousands of
15 families in New York received the relief that
16 they desperately needed. But it is clearly
17 not enough. The fund was exhausted in just
18 nine weeks, which is incredible.
19 Additionally, due to application
20 barriers and a lack of time to prepare,
21 geographic inequities, many thousands were
22 unable to access it. In fact, according to
23 the New York Department of Labor's own data,
24 75,000 people that were eligible who applied
309
1 in the last week of the program were denied
2 due to a lack of funds.
3 If we replenish the Excluded Workers
4 Fund with an additional $3 billion, we are
5 investing in the recovery of over 100,000
6 more hardworking New Yorkers.
7 Additionally, New York State
8 legislators must pass a permanent alternative
9 to Unemployment Insurance by passing the
10 Excluded No More legislation, which is
11 sponsored by Senator Jessica Ramos and
12 Assemblymember Karines Reyes and is awaiting
13 a bill number.
14 Excluded workers pay taxes, they pay
15 into social benefits programs and benefit
16 you, me and so many others, but we're still
17 excluding them from receiving the lifesaving
18 support they need. This program would create
19 an economic safety net that almost all others
20 in our state are entitled to.
21 The Excluded Worker Unemployment
22 Program has received overwhelming support by
23 the Black, Puerto Rican, and Hispanic Caucus,
24 as my colleague Julissa stated before. The
310
1 Assembly, Senate and Governor must not
2 hesitate here. You must act now on behalf of
3 New Yorkers who are still awaiting COVID
4 relief and a true safety net for excluded
5 workers in the long run.
6 Furthermore, we cannot talk about
7 workforce support if we don't talk about
8 creating jobs. And I have to mention
9 New York's worst-in-the-nation home care
10 worker shortage. So I urge you to fund the
11 Fair Pay for Home Care, which will wipe out
12 the worker shortage and create hundreds of
13 thousands of new jobs for New Yorkers.
14 To summarize, I submit this testimony
15 in support of $3 billion more for the
16 Excluded Workers Fund and the Excluded No
17 More legislation, as well as Fair Pay for
18 Home Care. Thank you for your time.
19 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you very
20 much.
21 I don't see any Senate hands. Helene?
22 CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN: No members of
23 the Assembly, but I see Senator Jackson.
24 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: I see Senator
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1 Jackson now.
2 Senator Jackson.
3 SENATOR JACKSON: Thank you,
4 Madam Chair.
5 Listen, let me thank both of you.
6 Last but not least, you've heard that saying.
7 So clearly I want to thank you for coming in
8 and expressing the need. As my colleague
9 Jessica Ramos said, when we put this forward
10 last year, and how many people applied,
11 basically it ran out like one, two, three
12 (snapping fingers), because the excluded
13 workers out in the community knew that this
14 was a program that they could put in for and
15 qualify for it.
16 And as a result of the fact that so
17 many people put in for it, that's why the
18 requested amount is now $3 billion more this
19 year.
20 So I support it. In fact, I asked my
21 staff members to check and see -- I'm sure
22 we're on it. But it went live only a couple
23 of days ago, and so I'm on it now.
24 Jessica, I wanted to let you know that
312
1 we're going to push this to get $3 billion
2 for the excluded workers, because quite
3 frankly they are the ones that are part of
4 the foundation that keeps this society going.
5 So I want to thank you both. You're
6 last, but not least. I appreciate you.
7 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you, Bob.
8 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Senator Ramos,
9 did you have any questions? Your hand is up
10 now.
11 SENATOR RAMOS: Yeah, thank you. I
12 don't know that they're questions, just a big
13 thank you. Obviously I'm working with these
14 advocates to make sure that we can finish
15 what we started.
16 What the success of the first version
17 of the Excluded Workers Fund was able to
18 prove was that there are thousands of
19 New Yorkers that are left out of Unemployment
20 Insurance. Unemployment Insurance is out of
21 whack with the reality of our workforces here
22 in New York. And so we need to be able to
23 recognize the lost wages for these folks if
24 we ever expect them to catch up on rent and
313
1 on their medical bills and provide for their
2 families.
3 So I'm going to utilize this time to
4 urge all of my colleagues to sign onto our
5 bills, to take a look, reach out to us if you
6 have any questions. But we need to get this
7 done as a serious measure that is part of an
8 economic boost that will benefit every single
9 corner of New York State.
10 Everybody's so amazed with how quick
11 the money went. That 99 percent of people
12 qualified for Tier 1 meant that they paid
13 taxes the past three years. And there are
14 still people upstate who haven't even been
15 able to apply and have a chance to be
16 considered for this fund.
17 So actually, for my colleagues
18 upstate, for my colleagues on Long Island,
19 this actually really goes out to you. This
20 is money for your communities that I want to
21 help you get done. So please, sign a buck
22 slip today and help us bring justice,
23 economic justice to our communities and all
24 of these New Yorkers who have been left out.
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1 Thank you.
2 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you. With
3 that, I am going close down this hearing.
4 Now, listen carefully. This is the
5 first of two hearings today. But everyone
6 actually has to leave this meeting and then
7 reboot Zoom for themselves with the address
8 for the Housing hearing.
9 Helene, are we having any minutes in
10 between or are we jumping directly to
11 Housing? See, I think she already got off.
12 So everybody get off, but come back to
13 the Housing Zoom address as quickly as
14 possible, and the Assembly will be running
15 that hearing.
16 And thank you all for your time today.
17 Appreciate it.
18 MR. SANCHEZ: Thank you.
19 (Whereupon, at 3:57 p.m., the budget
20 hearing concluded.)
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