75
1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE
2
3
4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
5
6
7
8
9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 January 9, 2023
11 3:00 p.m.
12
13
14 REGULAR SESSION
15
16
17
18 SENATOR SHELLEY B. MAYER, Acting President
19 ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary
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21
22
23
24
25
76
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The Senate
3 will come to order.
4 I ask everyone present to please
5 rise and recite the Pledge of Allegiance.
6 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited
7 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: In the
9 absence of clergy, let us bow our heads in a
10 moment of silent reflection or prayer.
11 (Whereupon, the assemblage respected
12 a moment of silence.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Reading of
14 the Journal.
15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, Sunday,
16 January 8, 2023, the Senate met pursuant to
17 adjournment. The Journal of Saturday, January 7,
18 2023, was read and approved. On motion, the
19 Senate adjourned.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Without
21 objection, the Journal stands approved as read.
22 Presentation of petitions.
23 Messages from the Assembly.
24 Messages from the Governor.
25 Reports of standing committees.
77
1 Reports of select committees.
2 Communications and reports from
3 state officers.
4 Motions and resolutions.
5 Senator Gianaris.
6 SENATOR GIANARIS: Good afternoon,
7 Madam President. On behalf of Majority Leader
8 Stewart-Cousins, I hand up the following
9 committee assignments of the Majority Conference
10 and ask that it be filed in the Journal.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
12 hand-up is received and shall be filed in the
13 Journal.
14 SENATOR GIANARIS: On behalf of
15 Majority Leader Stewart-Cousins, in consultation
16 with Senator Ortt, I hand up the following
17 committee assignments of the Minority Conference
18 and ask that that also be filed in the Journal.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
20 hand-up is received and shall be filed in the
21 Journal.
22 SENATOR GIANARIS: There will be an
23 immediate meeting of the Elections Committee in
24 Room 332, followed immediately thereafter by a
25 meeting of the Rules Committee in the same room.
78
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: There will
2 be an immediate meeting of the Elections
3 Committee in Room 332, followed by a meeting of
4 the Rules Committee in Room 332.
5 SENATOR GIANARIS: The Senate will
6 stand at ease.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The Senate
8 will stand at ease.
9 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease
10 at 3:02 p.m.)
11 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at
12 3:42 p.m.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The Senate
14 will return to order.
15 Senator Gianaris.
16 SENATOR GIANARIS: Madam President,
17 there's a report of the Rules Committee at the
18 desk. Please take that up.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
20 Secretary will read.
21 THE SECRETARY: Senator
22 Stewart-Cousins, from the Committee on Rules,
23 reports the following bills:
24 Senate Print 136, by
25 Senator Krueger, an act to amend the
79
1 Election Law;
2 Senate Print 242, by Senator May, an
3 act to amend the Election Law;
4 Senate Print 263, by
5 Senator Stewart-Cousins, an act to amend the
6 Election Law;
7 Senate Print 350, by
8 Senator Jackson, an act to amend the
9 Election Law;
10 Senate Print 585, by Senator May, an
11 act to amend the Election Law;
12 Senate Print 587, by Senator Comrie,
13 an act to amend the Election Law;
14 Senate Print 609, by
15 Senator Hoylman, an act to amend the
16 Election Law;
17 Senate Print 610, by
18 Senator Hoylman, an act to amend the
19 Election Law;
20 Senate Print 611, by Senator Mayer,
21 an act to amend the Election Law;
22 Senate Print 612, by Senator Mayer,
23 an act to amend the Election Law;
24 Senate Print 613A, by Senator Myrie,
25 an act to amend the Tax Law;
80
1 Senate Print 614, by Senator Myrie,
2 an act to amend the Election Law;
3 Senate Print 616, by Senator Myrie,
4 an act to amend the Election Law;
5 Senate Print 617, by Senator Myrie,
6 an act to amend the Election Law;
7 Senate Print 619, by
8 Senator Krueger, an act to amend the
9 Election Law;
10 Senate Print 644, by
11 Senator Mannion, an act to amend the
12 Election Law;
13 Senate Print 645, by
14 Senator Mannion, an act to amend the
15 Election Law;
16 Senate Print 657, by Senator Myrie,
17 an act to amend the Election Law;
18 Senate Print 811, by
19 Senator Breslin, an act to amend the
20 Insurance Law;
21 Senate Print 812, by Senator Ramos,
22 an act to amend the Social Services Law;
23 Senate Print 813, by Senator Liu, an
24 act to amend the Education Law;
25 Senate Print 814, by
81
1 Senator Kennedy, an act to amend the
2 State Finance Law;
3 Senate Print 815, by
4 Senator Kennedy, an act to amend the
5 Public Authorities Law;
6 Senate Print 816, by
7 Senator Hoylman, an act to amend the
8 General Business Law;
9 Senate Print 817, by
10 Senator Hoylman, an act to amend the Elder Law;
11 Senate Print 818, by Senator Myrie,
12 an act to amend a chapter of the Laws of 2022
13 amending the Election Law;
14 Senate Print 819, by Senator Cleare,
15 an act to amend the Public Health Law and the
16 Agriculture and Markets Law;
17 Senate Print 820, by Senator May, an
18 act to amend a chapter of the Laws of 2022;
19 Senate Print 821, by
20 Senator Harckham, an act to amend the Tax Law;
21 Senate Print 822, by Senator May, an
22 act to amend the Election Law;
23 Senate Print 823, by
24 Senator Mannion, an act to amend the
25 Mental Hygiene Law;
82
1 Senate Print 824, by
2 Senator Sanders, an act to amend the
3 Insurance Law;
4 Senate Print 825, by
5 Senator Hoylman, an act to amend the
6 Insurance Law;
7 Senate Print 826, by
8 Senator Skoufis, an act to amend a chapter of the
9 Laws of 2022 amending the Alcoholic Beverage
10 Control Law;
11 Senate Print 827, by
12 Senator Breslin, an act to amend the
13 Public Health Law;
14 Senate Print 828, by Senator Mayer,
15 an act to amend the Executive Law;
16 Senate Print 829, by
17 Senator Sanders, an act to amend the
18 Agriculture and Markets Law;
19 Senate Print 830, by
20 Senator Brisport, an act to amend the
21 Social Services Law;
22 Senate Print 831, by Senator Rivera,
23 an act relating to the availability of training
24 for state-approved education or training
25 programs;
83
1 Senate Print 832, by
2 Senator Brisport, an act to amend the
3 Public Health Law;
4 Senate Print 833, by
5 Senator Breslin, an act to amend a chapter of the
6 Laws of 2022 amending the Insurance Law;
7 Senate Print 834, by
8 Senator Kavanagh, an act to amend the
9 Environmental Conservation Law;
10 Senate Print 835, by Senator Comrie,
11 an act to amend the Public Health Law;
12 Senate Print 836, by
13 Senator Breslin, an act to amend the
14 Insurance Law;
15 Senate Print 837, by Senator Rivera,
16 an act to amend the Public Health Law;
17 Senate Print 838, by Senator Ryan,
18 an act to amend the Labor Law;
19 Senate Print 839, by
20 Senator Breslin, an act to amend the
21 Public Health Law;
22 Senate Print 840, by
23 Senator Kennedy, an act to amend the Highway Law;
24 Senate Print 841, by Senator Bailey,
25 an act to amend the Executive Law;
84
1 Senate Print 842, by
2 Senator Kavanagh, an act to amend the
3 Real Property Tax Law;
4 Senate Print 843, by Senator Liu, an
5 act to amend the Education Law;
6 Senate Print 844, by
7 Senator Skoufis, an act to amend the
8 Agriculture and Markets Law;
9 Senate Print 845, by
10 Senator Skoufis, an act to amend the
11 Public Health Law;
12 Senate Print 846, by
13 Senator Gianaris, an act to amend the
14 General Business Law;
15 Senate Print 847, by
16 Senator Hinchey, an act to amend the
17 Agriculture and Markets Law;
18 Senate Print 848, by
19 Senator Gianaris, an act to amend the Labor Law;
20 Senate Print 849, by
21 Senator Persaud, an act to amend the
22 Executive Law;
23 Senate Print 850, by
24 Senator Jackson, an act to amend the Labor Law;
25 Senate Print 851, by Senator Ramos,
85
1 an act to amend the Labor Law;
2 Senate Print 852, by
3 Senator Skoufis, an act to amend the
4 Election Law;
5 Senate Print 853, by
6 Senator Breslin, an act to amend the
7 Education Law;
8 Senate Print 854, by
9 Senator Sanders, an act to amend the
10 Executive Law;
11 Senate Print 855, by Senator May, an
12 act to amend the Public Health Law;
13 Senate Print 856, by
14 Senator Harckham, an act to repeal Section 1 of a
15 chapter of the Laws of 2022;
16 Senate Print 857, by
17 Senator Mattera, an act to amend the
18 Environmental Conservation Law;
19 Senate Print 858, by
20 Senator Mannion, an act to amend the
21 State Finance Law;
22 Senate Print 859, by Senator Ryan,
23 an act to amend the Education Law and the
24 Tax Law;
25 Senate Print 860, by
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1 Senator Hoylman, an act to amend the
2 Domestic Relations Law.
3 All bills reported direct to third
4 reading.
5 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
6 the report of the Rules Committee.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: All those
8 in favor of accepting the report of the
9 Rules Committee signify by saying aye.
10 (Response of "Aye.")
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Opposed?
12 (No response.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The Rules
14 Committee report is accepted.
15 Senator Gianaris.
16 SENATOR GIANARIS: Please take up
17 the reading of the supplemental calendar.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
19 Secretary will read.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3,
21 Senate Print 242, by Senator May, an act to amend
22 the Election Law.
23 SENATOR O'MARA: Lay it aside.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
25 is laid aside.
87
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 4,
2 Senate Print 263, by Senator Stewart-Cousins, an
3 act to amend the Election Law.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Read the
5 last section.
6 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
7 act shall take effect immediately.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Call the
9 roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Announce
12 the results.
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 60.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5,
17 Senate Print 350, by Senator Jackson, an act to
18 amend the Election Law.
19 SENATOR O'MARA: Lay it aside.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
21 is laid aside.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9,
23 Senate Print 610, by Senator Hoylman, an act to
24 amend the Election Law.
25 SENATOR O'MARA: Lay it aside.
88
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
2 is laid aside.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14,
4 Senate Print 616, by Senator Myrie, an act to
5 amend the Election Law.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Read the
7 last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Call the
11 roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Announce
14 the results.
15 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
16 Calendar 14, those Senators voting in the
17 negative are Senators Borrello,
18 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Gallivan, Helming,
19 Mattera, Murray, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Rhoads,
20 Rolison, Stec, Tedisco, Weber and Weik.
21 Ayes, 45. Nays, 15.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
23 is passed.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19,
25 Senate Print 657, by Senator Myrie, an act to
89
1 amend the Election Law.
2 SENATOR O'MARA: Lay it aside.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
4 is laid aside.
5 Senator Gianaris, that completes the
6 reading of today's supplemental calendar.
7 SENATOR GIANARIS: Can we now go to
8 the reading of the controversial calendar.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
10 Secretary will ring the bell.
11 The Secretary will read.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 3,
13 Senate Print 242, by Senator May, an act to amend
14 the Election Law.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
16 Borrello, why do you rise?
17 SENATOR BORRELLO: Madam President,
18 would the sponsor yield for some questions -- for
19 a question.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
21 May, do you yield for a question?
22 SENATOR MAY: I do.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
24 Senator yields.
25 SENATOR BORRELLO: All right, thank
90
1 you.
2 Hello again, Senator May. I know we
3 went through this last year, but certainly would
4 like to refresh everyone's memory. So my first
5 question is, could you please define what a
6 portable polling station is and what it would
7 look like?
8 SENATOR MAY: A portable polling
9 station -- I think of them more as pop-up polling
10 stations -- is a location that a board of
11 elections can -- can, and I will say "can," is
12 not required to, but this is at their
13 discretion -- can set up for three days or more
14 at some site in the -- in the district where
15 people can vote.
16 And the idea is to set it up in
17 places where people are, either where they're at
18 a shopping center or at a major employer, on the
19 days when people will be there, to make it easier
20 for voters to access their -- the franchise.
21 SENATOR BORRELLO: Madam President,
22 will the sponsor continue to yield.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
24 May, do you continue to yield?
25 SENATOR MAY: I will.
91
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
2 Senator yields.
3 SENATOR BORRELLO: Through you,
4 Madam President.
5 So the word is "portable," and you
6 used the term "pop-up." I know pop-up shops, I
7 know what you're saying, that's obviously -- so
8 you're saying that there wouldn't necessarily --
9 last year we talked about it and you talked about
10 something mobile. I referred to it as a voter
11 food truck, potentially. Are we limiting the
12 scope? Because I'm concerned, really, about --
13 you know, when I think of "pop-up," I think of
14 something that might not be secure.
15 What are we going to do to ensure --
16 because when you have a polling place, a polling
17 place is a school, it's a fire hall, it's a place
18 with locked doors and security. A pop-up or a
19 mobile -- you know, some kind of a mobile unit,
20 how are we going to ensure that they're secure?
21 SENATOR MAY: So there
22 are criminal -- through you, Madam President,
23 there are criminal consequences to interfering
24 with a polling place.
25 We -- there -- there's no reason to
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1 assume that these would be nonsecure if it was a
2 van or if it was a location that was identified
3 for a shorter period of time than a polling --
4 than an early voting place. Think about same-day
5 polling. They're there for just one day. These
6 would be there for three days. There is plenty
7 of opportunity to make them secure.
8 SENATOR BORRELLO: Madam President,
9 will the sponsor continue to yield?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
11 continue to yield?
12 SENATOR MAY: Certainly.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR BORRELLO: Through you,
16 Madam President. So, you know, I spent 10 years
17 in county government. And, you know, when we
18 started doing early voting when I was county
19 executive, we had a very deliberate process that
20 came about. And there were guardrails put in
21 place by legislation as to where, hours, so
22 forth.
23 So what guardrails do we have to
24 ensure that these are indeed secure? What in the
25 legislation would ensure that these portable
93
1 places, these pop-up shops, pop-up voting
2 stations, would be secure?
3 SENATOR MAY: So at the level of
4 the state board? Through you, Madam President,
5 the state board can issue regulations to make
6 sure that they are secure.
7 And then at the local level, each
8 of -- the decision whether to employ portable
9 polling places would be determined by the
10 elections commissioners of both parties in
11 advance. It wouldn't be a spur-of-the-moment
12 decision, it would be done, I believe, two
13 weeks -- at least two weeks in advance.
14 So there are plenty of opportunities
15 for guardrails of the kind you're talking about.
16 SENATOR BORRELLO: Madam President,
17 will the sponsor continue to yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
19 continue to yield?
20 SENATOR MAY: Of course.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR BORRELLO: So the
24 legislation mentions population density and
25 considerations like public transportation. You
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1 know, I represent rural areas. We don't have a
2 lot of public transportation. But when you start
3 saying "population density," are you saying that
4 the denser populations would get a preference for
5 a portable polling station? In other words, the
6 more population, the more likelihood that you'd
7 get -- you'd get a portable polling station?
8 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
9 Madam President. Actually, this is likely to be
10 more helpful for rural areas than anyplace else.
11 In Idaho, when portable polling places were in
12 practice, that was the idea, to make sure that
13 people in rural areas didn't have to travel very
14 far to access early voting.
15 And I know -- I have represented
16 counties that had only one early-voting polling
17 place, but this would enable them not to be
18 committed to that one polling place for the
19 entire early-voting period, but they could also
20 put one for a few days at a place where they knew
21 a lot of residents of the county would be.
22 So it actually can be better for
23 seniors, for people who live in remote areas but
24 tend to gather in some particular place at
25 certain times of the week.
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1 SENATOR BORRELLO: Madam President,
2 will the sponsor continue to yield?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
4 continue to yield?
5 SENATOR MAY: I do.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR BORRELLO: So whether it's
9 early voting or Election Day, we have specified
10 hours and specified days, and those are set by
11 the State Board of Elections and adhered to by
12 local boards of elections.
13 What if anything in this legislation
14 would stop a local board of elections from
15 saying, Well, in this particular area we're going
16 to have them there at 5 o'clock in the morning or
17 10 o'clock at night; in this area somewhere --
18 are there any restrictions, any guardrails as to
19 the hours of operation of those voter food
20 trucks, whatever we might call them?
21 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
22 Madam President. Number one, they can't
23 supersede state law. And number two, that whole
24 idea of seeking places where there's population
25 density, the idea is where are people going to be
96
1 during the week so that we can make it easier for
2 them to vote.
3 That is the whole point of this
4 bill, and a lot of other legislation that we have
5 passed, is to make sure that people can have
6 access to their polling places.
7 SENATOR BORRELLO: Madam President,
8 will the sponsor continue to yield.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
10 continue to yield?
11 SENATOR MAY: Gladly.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you.
15 So I want to go back to the
16 population density question. So what you're
17 saying is is that it's not resident population
18 density. You're saying that if it's busy on
19 Saturday at Walmart, we want to send the pop-up
20 voting station to the parking lot of the local
21 Walmart, is that the idea?
22 SENATOR MAY: Through you, Madam
23 President. In the bill you can't set these up
24 for less than three days in a row. So they -- it
25 wouldn't be on a particular afternoon, it would
97
1 be aimed at a period of time during the week.
2 But yes, you could say that this is
3 an area where a lot of people in our county are
4 going to be on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday
5 by -- you know, we can predict that there will be
6 a lot of people there; this is a good place to
7 set up a polling station.
8 SENATOR BORRELLO: Madam President,
9 will the sponsor continue to yield?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
11 continue to yield?
12 SENATOR MAY: I will.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR BORRELLO: So, you know,
16 one of the more -- most popular spots to shop
17 where I am is actually right on the border of
18 Pennsylvania. It's very -- you know, it's -- so
19 right now in New York State we don't require you
20 to show an ID to prove who you are. So you could
21 have people from the State of Pennsylvania that
22 are showing up at a very popular Walmart location
23 that's literally a stone's throw from the State
24 of Pennsylvania. How are we going to ensure that
25 those people are who they say they are because
98
1 we're showing up at the Walmart parking lot for
2 three days in a row? How do we ensure that those
3 people are actually eligible to vote at the
4 pop-up site?
5 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
6 Madam President. The electronic poll books that
7 we use now in New York State that are so
8 effective at making our elections more efficient
9 are also making our elections more secure. And
10 they wouldn't be on the list. They would show
11 up, but they wouldn't be in the poll book. So if
12 they tried to vote, they would not be able to.
13 And I will also add there would be
14 legal consequences if they tried to.
15 SENATOR BORRELLO: Madam President,
16 on the bill.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
18 Borrello on the bill.
19 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you.
20 Thank you, Senator May. Appreciate
21 it.
22 I think what -- when we talk about
23 some kind of a portable station, it sounds like a
24 nice idea. We want to send a food truck or a
25 pop-up shop so people can vote wherever they
99
1 want. But it is less and less -- when you get
2 into the details, there's less and less details
3 as to how we will ensure they are secure.
4 When we have a polling place right
5 now, it's in a school. Schools have, you know,
6 unfortunately become fortresses, but they are
7 secure for us to hold our elections. And they
8 are secure places to ensure that overnight,
9 wherever they might be, that they are secure.
10 But to do something like this, with
11 no real parameters as to what this looks like --
12 we're saying it could be portable, it could be
13 pop-up, it could be on wheels, it might not be --
14 there's just not enough guardrails to ensure
15 we're doing this properly.
16 And I do have a lot of concerns,
17 because at the end of the day, in New York State
18 you don't have to show an ID. And someone could
19 come up, knowing someone else's address and phone
20 number, or their address and their name, and they
21 could vote somewhere else without anyone knowing
22 that.
23 Now, that certainly is the case in
24 general in New York State, because we should
25 require someone -- something as simple as to show
100
1 an ID to vote. But we're going to make it that
2 much more difficult to track, and that much less
3 secure with these portable stations.
4 So I'll be voting no. Thank you.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
6 Walczyk.
7 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you,
8 Madam President. If the sponsor would yield for
9 a couple of questions.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
11 May, will you yield?
12 SENATOR MAY: I will.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
16 Madam President. Are there examples of where
17 this type of thing has been done before?
18 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
19 Madam President. California, Georgia and Idaho
20 are the states that I know of that have had
21 portable polling places.
22 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
23 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
24 yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
101
1 continue to yield?
2 SENATOR MAY: I do.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
6 Madam President. How long have those systems
7 been in place before your proposing this in
8 New York State Election Law?
9 SENATOR MAY: I will say several
10 years. Many of them came into being as a result
11 of the pandemic, as a way for people to vote
12 safely.
13 SENATOR WALCZYK: Madam Speaker, if
14 the sponsor would continue to yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
16 continue to yield?
17 SENATOR MAY: I do.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR WALCZYK: You mentioned in
21 the last section of debate, a number of times,
22 population density. Why does this work so much
23 better in areas that are densely populated than
24 it does in rural areas?
25 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
102
1 Madam President, that's exactly what I did not
2 say. We're talking about the density of people
3 in a place at a particular time.
4 And so if you have a rural county
5 that is not at all dense and only one
6 early-voting place, they may have to travel a
7 very long way to get to that early-voting place.
8 But if a lot of people congregate at
9 the shopping mall or at the major employer in
10 that area on particular days of the week, then
11 setting up a polling place there for a few days
12 is a way to give people access to the franchise
13 who might not be able to get to the polling place
14 that is -- the one polling place that is set up
15 in their county for early voting.
16 So this -- we're talking about
17 density of people at any given time, not density
18 of residents.
19 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you. And
20 through you, Madam Speaker, appreciate the
21 example of an employer, for instance, where
22 people would congregate every day for their work.
23 If the sponsor would continue to
24 yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
103
1 continue to yield?
2 SENATOR MAY: I do.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR WALCZYK: Is there any
6 specific employer that's worked in the examples
7 in California or that you envision in New York
8 State, a great employer that you think that we
9 should have a special polling site just for the
10 employees of their location?
11 SENATOR MAY: So I don't have
12 any -- oh. Through you, Madam President, I don't
13 have any specific examples. This is something
14 that the two commissioners would have to agree
15 on.
16 I do know, for example, in my county
17 the community college is a place where there are
18 a lot of people who come through on certain days
19 of the week, and that would be an obvious place
20 to put a polling place on three or four weekdays
21 because it would be someplace where a lot of
22 people would be -- would be, and would give them
23 the opportunity to vote on those days.
24 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you for
25 yielding for my questions.
104
1 Madam President, on the bill.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
3 Walczyk on the bill.
4 SENATOR WALCZYK: So a community
5 college would be a perfect example, or a college
6 would be a perfect example of the intent of this
7 legislation. We know that the way college
8 faculties and students tend to vote, it's not
9 generally -- and while they may be condensed and
10 somehow we're saying this is still rural but also
11 condensed in the population density at the same
12 time, it sounds confusing. And probably, for
13 someone that's listening to this debate, it's
14 actually pretty straightforward. Democrats tend
15 to vote in more population-dense areas. College
16 campuses would be those types of consolidated
17 areas, even if they're in a very rural area. I
18 represented an Assembly district that was very
19 rural. The proclivity to vote Democrat was in
20 the two college towns in that Assembly district.
21 I now represent a large Senate
22 district in upstate New York that has some
23 population density. And in those areas of
24 population density -- which would make probably
25 good early-voting mobile sites, by the sponsor of
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1 this bill -- those areas also vote generally for
2 one party over the other.
3 Madam Speaker, this is pretty
4 obvious on its face to me. I'll be voting no and
5 encourage my colleagues to do the same.
6 Thank you.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Thank you.
8 Senator Krueger.
9 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you,
10 Madam President. Will the sponsor please yield
11 to a couple of questions?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Does the
13 sponsor yield?
14 SENATOR MAY: Gladly.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
18 So just in follow-up to some of the
19 discussion I've heard, my familiarity with the
20 New York State lines are that we are a stone's
21 throw from Massachusetts, Pennsylvania,
22 New Jersey, Connecticut around almost all our
23 borders. And certainly in New York City, we're a
24 stone's throw from New Jersey.
25 Is there any research that shows
106
1 that people come across those state lines to vote
2 in our elections because it's close to them?
3 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
4 Madam President, I am not aware of any such
5 research. But Senator Myrie has a bill for
6 collecting the data, so we may know better about
7 that.
8 But I believe we would hear about it
9 if it actually happened.
10 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
11 Madam President, if the sponsor would yield for
12 another question.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Will you
14 continue to yield?
15 SENATOR MAY: I do.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you so
19 much.
20 So one of my colleagues also just
21 raised a concern that somehow this would be
22 different in rural versus urban or more densely
23 populated areas. I think I do agree that rural
24 New York probably has disproportionately greater
25 numbers of Republican voters than urban areas. I
107
1 think that data is available.
2 Is there any reason we should be
3 concerned that we would want to make it easier
4 for Republican voters in rural areas to be able
5 to vote?
6 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
7 Madam President, I'm not sure I understand the
8 question. But I believe we should be making it
9 easier for everybody to vote. And that is the
10 purpose of this and many other bills that we have
11 passed.
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
13 On the bill, Madam President.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
15 Krueger on the bill.
16 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
17 I sincerely don't understand why
18 people would oppose wanting to make it easier for
19 people to vote -- regardless of where they live,
20 regardless of what party. I think, in fact, it
21 is our obligation as elected officials within a
22 democracy where we are decided by voters, that we
23 try to make it as accessible for people to vote
24 as possible.
25 And I think clearly expanding the
108
1 number of sites increases the opportunities for
2 more people to vote, and that in itself is a good
3 thing.
4 Should we be concerned about
5 security in elections? We should always be
6 concerned about everything. That's what we get
7 paid for, to some degree.
8 But the research is clear that when
9 you make it easier for people to vote, it doesn't
10 increase voter fraud. We've massively expanded
11 voting through opportunities through early voting
12 and absentee-ballot voting, and there's no basis
13 to believe that somehow we have corrupted our
14 democratic process that way. And the research
15 nationally, by all parties, agrees that that is
16 not a problem.
17 I must admit while I'm certainly not
18 from a rural area -- it's called Manhattan
19 Island; it's small but quite dense -- we have
20 actually voting booths within the lobbies of
21 residential buildings, because we find it so hard
22 to find enough spaces for people to vote. So
23 while it's not exactly rural pop-up, it's not
24 exactly an armed camp, either. It's just the
25 lobby as you come in and out of your building.
109
1 And I don't believe New York City has found to
2 have any additional problems with security by
3 putting voting booths and a worker or two within
4 the lobby of a building.
5 So I think there is plenty of
6 research from our own state and from our nation
7 that any model that helps assist voters get to
8 vote is a good thing. And I certainly am proud
9 to be voting yes on this today.
10 Thank you, Madam President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Thank you.
12 Senator Murray.
13 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you.
14 Madam President, through you, would the sponsor
15 yield for a few questions?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Does the
17 sponsor yield?
18 SENATOR MAY: I will.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
20 sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you.
22 Since early voting has begun, do we
23 have any estimates regarding the overall cost
24 of -- I'm sorry, the overall turnout of early
25 voters?
110
1 SENATOR MAY: I do not have an
2 answer to that, but it's many, many thousands of
3 people have access to early voting.
4 SENATOR MURRAY: Through you,
5 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
6 yield?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
8 continue to yield?
9 SENATOR MAY: I do.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you.
13 I guess I was looking for more of
14 a -- like a percentage. Do we have a guesstimate
15 as to percentage of voter turnout through early
16 voting, over the 10-day period?
17 SENATOR MAY: Through you, Madam
18 President. I think it has varied widely because
19 we've only had early voting for a short period of
20 time, and it's been increasing significantly year
21 by year.
22 SENATOR MURRAY: Through you,
23 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
24 yield?
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
111
1 continue to yield?
2 SENATOR MAY: I do.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR MURRAY: So when we set up
6 the locations for the early voting, I think some
7 of the criteria was, I -- if I'm not mistaken, I
8 believe it was for every 50,000 voters there had
9 to be a location. I know I'm in the Town of
10 Brookhaven, about a half a million people, and we
11 have 10 early-voting locations.
12 So some of the criteria I believe
13 was population density, public transportation,
14 commuter traffic patterns, travel to polling
15 places. Did we use that same criteria when
16 setting up those early-voting locations that
17 you're using for these?
18 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
19 Madam President. I did get a statistic that
20 1.1 million people used early voting in 2022 in
21 New York State.
22 Yes, those were the same criteria
23 that were applied. And at the same time, I will
24 also say in my county there was strong opposition
25 to having the maximum number of polling places
112
1 for early voting from the Republican side, and we
2 ended up with a very restricted number. And they
3 worked very hard to make sure they were not in
4 the places that had the most people in them.
5 So it is a -- it is a shifting
6 landscape, I would say, of where the polling
7 places are being located, and -- and a very
8 political decision.
9 SENATOR MURRAY: Through you,
10 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
11 yield.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
13 continue to yield?
14 SENATOR MAY: Mm-hmm. I will.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR MURRAY: Do you have a
18 guesstimate on how many portable locations you'd
19 like to have throughout the state?
20 SENATOR MAY: Through you, Madam
21 President. So this would not be up to me or to
22 us, it would be up to the elections commissioners
23 of each county to decide if this were a valuable
24 thing for the voters of that district.
25 SENATOR MURRAY: Through you,
113
1 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
2 yield?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
4 continue to yield?
5 SENATOR MAY: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you.
9 And do you have an estimate cost of
10 each pop-up polling place, whether per day or per
11 three-day period?
12 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
13 Madam President. We do not believe this will
14 incur additional costs that can't be absorbed
15 within -- within the existing resources.
16 But again, that would be up to the
17 elections commissioners of each county.
18 SENATOR MURRAY: Through you,
19 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
20 yield?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
22 continue to yield?
23 SENATOR MAY: Yes.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
25 sponsor yields.
114
1 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you.
2 I'm a little confused. So if we're
3 staffing these pop-up locations -- and I believe
4 it's a requirement that there be ballots on hand
5 at all voting locations. In the event that every
6 voter turned out, they must have those ballots on
7 hand. How would there be no additional cost if
8 you must staff the pop-up location and also make
9 sure there are adequate ballots on hand?
10 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
11 Madam President. So first of all, they can be
12 printed on demand. You don't have to have the
13 ballots in advance.
14 And if every single voter showed up
15 to vote in these locations, then you could
16 presumably save on staff at other voting
17 locations because there would -- you know,
18 there's a limited number of people who can vote
19 in a district.
20 SENATOR MURRAY: Through you,
21 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
22 yield.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
24 continue to yield?
25 SENATOR MAY: Yes.
115
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
2 sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR MURRAY: But you are saying
4 the pop-up locations will be -- there will be
5 people on hand working the pop-up locations,
6 correct? And they are in addition to the
7 early-voting locations?
8 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
9 Madam President, that is correct, if the
10 elections commissioners decide that that is the
11 best way to use their resources.
12 SENATOR MURRAY: Madam President,
13 through you, would the sponsor continue to yield?
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
15 continue to yield?
16 SENATOR MAY: I do.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR MURRAY: Will there also be
20 agreements in place on who would do this, as far
21 as liability? As you mentioned earlier, say for
22 a Walmart parking lot or somewhere like this, who
23 takes up the liability costs of having this
24 location on hand?
25 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
116
1 Madam President, the procedure would be the same
2 as for other polling places. The commissioners
3 would work through the location to get the
4 permissions and to set up the space.
5 SENATOR MURRAY: Through you,
6 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
7 yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
9 continue to yield?
10 SENATOR MAY: I do.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR MURRAY: Last one, I
14 promise.
15 So I mentioned earlier I'm from
16 Brookhaven. We have a special election coming up
17 in a week or so, and I literally had to look up
18 where the locations are. I've spoken to a lot of
19 people, since it is still new, and a lot of
20 people don't know where the early voting
21 locations are now that are in existence. How
22 would we let voters know that a pop-up location
23 is going to be there? Or would this just be a
24 spur of the moment, Hey, look over there, there
25 it is?
117
1 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
2 Madam President. The locations would be
3 announced two weeks before the election, and the
4 boards would have to give notice to voters where
5 the locations are, as they do with early-voting
6 sites.
7 But I will also add that this --
8 this idea has the advantage that if you didn't
9 bother to look up the list but you happen to be
10 in this place that people tend to congregate, in
11 this particular place within your community where
12 people are, and a voting place happens to be
13 there, you wouldn't have had to look it up, you
14 could just walk in and vote.
15 Which is one of the beauties of
16 this -- this proposal, compared to the ones where
17 you've got to find some remote place that the --
18 that the elections commissioners agreed on as a
19 permanent early-voting site.
20 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you very
21 much. I appreciate it.
22 Madam President, on the bill.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
24 Murray on the bill.
25 SENATOR MURRAY: So as we've talked
118
1 about this -- and the percentages, by the way, of
2 early voting, it's less than 10 percent. But --
3 so we won't be in danger of everyone going to a
4 pop-up location, I assure you.
5 But when we talk about the ease of
6 voting and making it easier, I can -- I find it
7 difficult to find out what is so difficult about
8 voting now. We have early voting, we have
9 absentee voting, we have voting when you show up
10 on Election Day. It doesn't seem to be that
11 difficult.
12 But I worry about the cost involved,
13 where -- whether it is liability insurance,
14 whether it is advertising these locations,
15 whether it is staffing these locations and
16 providing the materials. I just wonder if the --
17 if the -- if it justifies -- if it's justified
18 with the cost that we're imposing right now. We
19 have early voting now. It's -- as you said, it's
20 starting to become a little bit more popular.
21 But we have, like I said, in my town, the Town of
22 Brookhaven, 10 early voting locations. It isn't
23 difficult to find, and it's not difficult to show
24 up to vote. So I just wonder about does the cost
25 justify doing this.
119
1 So I will be voting no. Thank you.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
3 Weik.
4 SENATOR WEIK: Thank you,
5 Madam President. Would the sponsor yield for a
6 few questions.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Will the
8 sponsor yield?
9 SENATOR MAY: I will.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR WEIK: Thank you.
13 So through you, Madam President,
14 along the same lines as Senator Murray, I have
15 some cost -- some cost-related questions.
16 One, how will voters know about
17 these spots? So if they're -- are they going to
18 pop up from election to election, whether it's a
19 primary or a general election, from year to year?
20 Are they going to be different places? And if
21 so, the advertising for this, who bears the cost
22 of that?
23 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
24 Madam President. As it is now, the boards of
25 elections have to communicate with voters about
120
1 polling locations, many of which change from year
2 to year, as do the early-voting locations. So
3 they are doing this outreach on a regular basis
4 already.
5 In this case, they would -- if they
6 made a decision like this, they would be making
7 the decision in the context of what their
8 resources were for advertising it, and they would
9 have to put out notice two weeks in advance.
10 They can do some of that by -- electronically,
11 for free, but some of it might have a cost.
12 But presumably they wouldn't
13 decide -- as I said at the very outset, this is
14 entirely voluntary on their part. They wouldn't
15 decide to do this if they couldn't afford it.
16 SENATOR WEIK: Through you,
17 Madam President. Just to clarify. So would
18 these be consistent, or would they be different
19 from election to primary -- a general election to
20 a primary election? Are these going to change
21 all the time?
22 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
23 Madam President. It could change if the two
24 election commissioners agreed to that. But
25 either way, they would have to give notice, as --
121
1 the same way they give notice about early-voting
2 sites, about these each election cycle.
3 SENATOR WEIK: Through you,
4 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
5 yield.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
7 continue to yield?
8 SENATOR MAY: I do.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR WEIK: So right now, do we
12 pay to use schools and fire departments in order
13 to be polling places at this time?
14 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
15 Madam President. No, we do not.
16 SENATOR WEIK: Through you,
17 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
18 yield?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
20 continue to yield?
21 SENATOR MAY: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR WEIK: So these pop-up
25 stores or vehicles, whatever happens to be
122
1 convenient, how are they being paid for?
2 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
3 Madam President. Once again, this is entirely
4 voluntary on the part of the boards of elections.
5 The elections commissioners will decide what
6 their budgets can -- can handle and whether it is
7 a cost-effective way to use money from their
8 budgets.
9 SENATOR WEIK: Through you,
10 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
11 yield?
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
13 continue to yield?
14 SENATOR MAY: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR WEIK: Are there going to
18 be any determinations as to whether or not
19 something could be, you know, donated in kind --
20 a storefront, possibly? Could there be any
21 guidance on that so that there's no alleged
22 in-kind that's done improperly or politically?
23 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
24 Madam President. This is another area where the
25 State Board of Elections can issue regulations to
123
1 make sure that nothing is being done that is a
2 conflict of interest, for example.
3 But I see no reason why that
4 couldn't happen if the boards of elections
5 decided that -- if the elections commissioners
6 decided that was to their advantage. And to the
7 advantage of the voters.
8 SENATOR WEIK: Through you, Madam
9 President, would the sponsor continue to yield?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
11 continue to yield?
12 SENATOR MAY: I do.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR WEIK: So none of these
16 details are actually in the bill.
17 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
18 Madam President. The bill is designed, as it was
19 in California and Idaho and Georgia, to provide
20 maximum flexibility to the elections
21 commissioners to make those determinations about
22 what is best for the voters of their county so
23 that they can most easily access the franchise.
24 SENATOR WEIK: Thank you very much.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
124
1 Rhoads.
2 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
3 Madam President. Will the sponsor yield?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
5 yield?
6 SENATOR MAY: I do.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR RHOADS: I am from Nassau
10 County. We have a population of 1.4 million
11 people, and we have 27 early-voting locations
12 throughout the county. As a former county
13 legislator, I have received exactly zero
14 complaints about being able to access an
15 early-voting location.
16 Is the sponsor aware of any studies
17 that have been conducted or are there any
18 examples that can be provided of anyone, in any
19 area of the state, that hasn't had access to an
20 early-voting location through the normal process?
21 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
22 Madam President. I will say that I'm envious of
23 your county, which has a much higher rate of
24 early-voting sites than mine does.
25 I did represent a county that had
125
1 one early-voting site in the geographic center of
2 the county, but that meant a 45 to an hour -- a
3 45-minute to an hour drive for people who lived
4 at the corners of that county.
5 And this might furnish an
6 opportunity, if the elections commissioners
7 decided it was a valuable thing for them to make
8 voting more accessible to people in some remote
9 corner of that county.
10 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
11 yield for another question.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
13 continue to yield?
14 SENATOR MAY: I do.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
18 Senator.
19 Would there be anything that
20 prevents a county board of elections from
21 establishing an additional early-voting location?
22 Or are they required to do one per 50,000?
23 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
24 Madam President. I believe they can establish as
25 many as they like. There is a minimum number set
126
1 by law, but they can -- they can have more than
2 that.
3 One of the advantages of this system
4 is that they can do this for just three days. So
5 a -- when they establish early-voting sites, they
6 have to have them for the entire length of the
7 early-voting period. Which may be prohibitive in
8 terms of the amount of staff that they can
9 provide for those.
10 But if they have their -- their
11 minimum number of early-voting sites and then
12 they want to be more flexible with some other
13 sites, they can do it this way.
14 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the Senator
15 continue to yield?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
17 continue to yield?
18 SENATOR MAY: I do.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
20 Senator yields.
21 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you.
22 But essentially, though, the boards
23 of elections do already have the right to be able
24 to establish as many early-voting locations as
25 they want, correct?
127
1 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
2 Madam President, I believe that is true, yes.
3 SENATOR RHOADS: And would the
4 Senator continue to yield?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
6 continue to yield?
7 SENATOR MAY: I do.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
9 Senator yields.
10 SENATOR RHOADS: With respect to
11 security, Senator Borrello brought up a point
12 with respect to people coming in from -- from
13 outside the area to vote.
14 Under your bill, would it be
15 possible, for example, to place an early-voting
16 location -- in the somewhat rare event that the
17 Mets, for example, are playing in late October,
18 would it be possible to place an early-voting
19 location at Citi Field?
20 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
21 Madam President. There's no reason that wouldn't
22 be possible, but they have to do it for at least
23 three days. So it might not be advantageous to
24 do it. And the people who voted there would have
25 to live in the relevant district in ...
128
1 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you.
2 Will the Senator continue to yield?
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
4 continue to yield?
5 SENATOR MAY: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
7 Senator yields.
8 SENATOR RHOADS: At a location such
9 that, where you have a variety of people from all
10 different areas coming into the same location,
11 would that not make it very difficult for the
12 board of elections, without having a tremendous
13 number of staff on hand, to be able to handle
14 that density of population?
15 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
16 Madam President. So I understand in New York
17 City early-voting locations are assigned; you
18 can't go and vote at any early-voting site.
19 I'm not sure how that would apply to
20 the -- I guess it would be the same. You would
21 be assigned to this site and -- and not be able
22 to vote at other sites.
23 SENATOR RHOADS: Would the Senator
24 continue to yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
129
1 continue to yield?
2 SENATOR MAY: I do.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
4 Senator yields.
5 SENATOR RHOADS: Again, with
6 respect to cost -- as many of my colleagues have
7 raised, though -- the example that I've cited,
8 would that not lead to an extensive amount of
9 cost and personnel in that particular situation?
10 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
11 Madam President. I will repeat this is entirely
12 at the discretion of the Republican and
13 Democratic elections commissioners for that area.
14 And so if they decide it is cost-prohibitive,
15 they won't do it. If they decide that the cost,
16 whatever the cost might be -- it could be nothing
17 or it could be nominal or it could be something
18 more significant -- but they could decide if the
19 payoff in terms of the numbers of people who
20 would gain access to voting would be large
21 enough.
22 So it's entirely -- it's giving them
23 a tool that they don't have right now for a
24 shorter period of time to set up a polling place
25 in a location where they think that is a valid
130
1 thing to do.
2 SENATOR RHOADS: Madam President,
3 on the bill.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
5 Rhoads on the bill.
6 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
7 Madam President.
8 It seems as though here we are -- we
9 have a solution in search of a problem, with --
10 with all due respect. We have boards of
11 elections that are already enabled to establish
12 as many early-voting locations as they wish.
13 We've established statewide a minimum number of
14 locations. If there is a rural county that sees
15 a need to be able to establish a second
16 early-voting location, they already have the
17 ability to do that.
18 But through this bill, if it were to
19 pass, we create a situation where we have
20 legitimate security concerns, we have legitimate
21 cost concerns, and there's no discernible benefit
22 that arises from doing it, since in the rare
23 instance where you have a situation, there's
24 already a process for local boards of elections
25 to address that.
131
1 So I will be -- I will be voting no
2 on the bill, and I would urge my colleagues to do
3 the same. Thank you, Madam President.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Are there
5 any other Senators wishing to be heard?
6 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
7 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
8 Read the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
10 act shall take effect on the first of January.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Call the
12 roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
15 May to explain her vote.
16 SENATOR MAY: Thank you,
17 Madam President. And thank you to my colleagues
18 for a spirited debate.
19 I -- I want to say this is, as I
20 said, a tool in the toolbox of our boards of
21 elections to make it easier for people to vote.
22 Instead of having to create a whole new
23 early-voting site for the full 10 days of early
24 voting, they can make one for just three in a
25 location that they think is a valuable place to
132
1 do it.
2 I am concerned about one thing that
3 one of my colleagues said, which was that we need
4 to make sure that we're not putting polling
5 places in places where people are, because that
6 might lead to more Democrats voting. This is a
7 deeply concerning concept and one that -- I mean,
8 the extension of that would be you'd only put
9 polling places in the most remote locations so
10 that the fewest people could vote.
11 Our whole idea behind Democracy Day
12 today and the last five years that I have been
13 voting in this body has been to make voting more
14 accessible, more fair, more transparent, and more
15 reliable. And I believe we have done that
16 through more than a hundred bills that we have
17 passed in the last five years to strengthen our
18 democracy from one of the worst set of voting
19 laws in the country to some of the best.
20 I am proud to vote for this bill and
21 to have voted for some of those other changes to
22 our election laws that really have made our
23 elections far more accessible to New Yorkers of
24 all walks of life in all corners of the state.
25 I vote aye.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
2 May to be recorded in the affirmative.
3 Senator Stec to explain his veto.
4 SENATOR STEC: Thank you,
5 Madam President.
6 I've enjoyed listening to my
7 colleagues discuss this and many related issues
8 today regarding our elections. I particularly
9 was caught by the sponsor mentioning over and
10 over again that local boards of elections locally
11 would have this kind of flexibility to make a
12 decision that made the most sense for that
13 county. I applaud that.
14 However, I will point out that this
15 bill is different from a lot of other election
16 laws where we have refused those boards of
17 elections that kind of flexibility. There is at
18 least 10 bills from 10 different counties,
19 members of both sides of the aisle, that went
20 nowhere last year that wanted to allow -- make
21 for deviations on something that they had no
22 flexibility in, where the early-voting sites
23 went. My -- one county of mine in particular,
24 the county board of supervisors unanimously
25 wanted to ask us to change so that it didn't have
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1 to go into the lone city in the county because it
2 made more sense to have the early-voting location
3 at the county seat where there's security, where
4 there's disability accessibility. And instead,
5 they insisted -- the bills moved nowhere. The
6 elections commissioners both wanted it, the City
7 of Glens Falls wanted it, the county board
8 unanimously wanted it, but the law was inflexible
9 and denied them that opportunity.
10 So I'd like to see a little more
11 consistency if we're going to throw around "We're
12 going to give the locals a little more
13 flexibility." And for that and many other
14 reasons, I am voting against this bill.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
16 Stec to be recorded in the negative.
17 Announce the results.
18 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
19 Calendar Number 3, those Senators voting in the
20 negative are Senators Ashby, Borrello,
21 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Gallivan, Helming,
22 Mattera, Murray, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Rhoads,
23 Rolison, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.
24 Ayes, 43. Nays, 17.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
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1 is passed.
2 Senator Gianaris.
3 SENATOR GIANARIS: Can we now move
4 on to Calendar 19, by Senator Myrie.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
6 Secretary will ring the bell.
7 The Secretary will read.
8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19,
9 Senate Print 657, by Senator Myrie, an act to
10 amend the Election Law.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
12 Walczyk.
13 SENATOR WALCZYK: Explanation,
14 please.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
16 Walczyk, are you asking Senator Myrie to explain
17 the bill?
18 SENATOR WALCZYK: Yes.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Excellent.
20 Senator Myrie.
21 SENATOR MYRIE: Let's be clear; you
22 want me not explaining my vote but responding to
23 an on-the-bill question, correct?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Correct.
25 SENATOR MYRIE: Okay.
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1 The purpose of this bill -- you
2 don't have to look much further than some of the
3 questioning from some of my colleagues on the
4 other side of the aisle. They asked about data.
5 They said, Have you found any studies? Have you
6 seen any research? Is there anything that
7 indicates percentages? All of those things are
8 things that this bill would help accomplish.
9 Establishing an institute, a central
10 repository for election data -- many of which is
11 already collected, but centralizing it to relieve
12 the pressure on local county boards of elections,
13 to relieve their obligation to have to respond to
14 FOIA requests, to relieve the costs they have to
15 pay for voting litigation. If we consolidate
16 this into a center institute where all of this
17 information can be available, I think that we
18 would make a lot of progress towards picking
19 out some of these patterns that my colleagues are
20 so concerned about.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
22 Walczyk.
23 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you,
24 Madam President. Would the sponsor yield for
25 some questions.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
2 Myrie, do you yield?
3 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR WALCZYK: And I appreciate
7 his explanation.
8 Through you, Madam President, why
9 can't we seek some of this data and analysis from
10 the private institutions, private colleges in the
11 State of New York?
12 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
13 Madam President. Primarily because the
14 information gathered all together does not yet
15 exist.
16 Right now we have a hodgepodge of
17 information where some local boards collect this
18 information, some school districts collect this
19 information, some other local elections -- sewer,
20 sewage races, water districts, they collect
21 information. But many of them don't. So we
22 don't know as a state, for instance, what are all
23 the results for the school district elections
24 last year. We don't have that.
25 So this is meant, again, to wrap
138
1 this all around into a central repository. And
2 it makes sense that we would turn to our public
3 institutions, because we are a public body and
4 it's important for us to support the work that
5 SUNY does and CUNY does, the opportunity that
6 this would provide, both for students and
7 faculty, to dig into this data and really give us
8 the things that we need to help our elections run
9 smoother I think is an opportunity that should be
10 welcomed by all.
11 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
12 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
13 yield.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
15 continue to yield?
16 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR WALCZYK: And my
20 understanding from the conversation in our
21 committee meeting today was that this language
22 came from the John Lewis Voting Rights Act. Is
23 that correct?
24 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
25 Madam President, this -- in a slightly different
139
1 iteration -- was contained in the first draft of
2 that bill .
3 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
4 Madam President, why was that language taken --
5 if the sponsor would continue to yield.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
7 continue to yield?
8 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR WALCZYK: Why was that
12 language removed before the bill was voted on in
13 this house?
14 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you, Madam
15 President. We thought it would make sense,
16 because of how robust this institute might be,
17 that we break it out into a separate bill.
18 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
19 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
20 yield.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
22 continue to yield?
23 SENATOR MYRIE: Sure.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
25 sponsor yields.
140
1 SENATOR WALCZYK: Does SUNY and
2 CUNY support the language that it is today in
3 the -- in the bill that we're about to vote on?
4 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you, Madam
5 President. We drafted this in many conversations
6 with the -- with both CUNY and SUNY and with
7 professors that work closely in this area at both
8 institutions.
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
10 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
11 yield.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
13 continue to yield?
14 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR WALCZYK: Has SUNY or CUNY
18 issued that support publicly?
19 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
20 Madam President, there is no official statement
21 from SUNY or CUNY on this bill.
22 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
23 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
24 yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
141
1 continue to yield?
2 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR WALCZYK: I understand in
6 public policy and legislation that's pending,
7 sometimes SUNY or CUNY won't issue a statement,
8 they'll often push you to the Second Floor. So I
9 wonder, through you, Madam President, if the
10 sponsor could explain whether the Governor's
11 office supports this piece of legislation or not.
12 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
13 Madam President, I will never divine what the
14 Governor is thinking or supporting, absent that
15 being on the record.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
17 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
18 yield.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
20 continue to yield?
21 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR WALCZYK: Is there a fiscal
25 note that goes along with this bill?
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1 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
2 Madam President, there is. This would cost
3 $2 million. My understanding is that most of
4 that comes up-front, and so that's for the
5 building of the technology that would be
6 necessary, and the staffing. But that cost would
7 bear itself out as we go down the line not
8 forcing local boards of elections to have to
9 promulgate some of this information themselves.
10 SENATOR WALCZYK: Madam President,
11 on the bill. Thank you.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
13 Walczyk on the bill.
14 SENATOR WALCZYK: Two million
15 dollars I know in this house can seem like small
16 potatoes. This is the type of legislation that
17 has a fiscal impact. And just for context and to
18 get it into the record, I became the ranking
19 member on the Elections Committee. We called an
20 Elections Committee off the floor today on our
21 first day of regular business in session. Found
22 out about the bills that were on the agenda in
23 the middle of the weekend, and today is Monday,
24 so I didn't have a whole lot of time -- and
25 that's part of the reason that I asked about
143
1 support and opposition -- didn't have a lot of
2 time to interface with SUNY institutions that I
3 represent, or SUNY and CUNY at large, to get
4 feedback. Nor did I have an opportunity to reach
5 out to the Governor's office and get feedback
6 from their people in higher education. So I
7 think it's important to get some of those things
8 on the record.
9 But with the Governor -- we know the
10 Governor is going to present her State of the
11 State tomorrow, and we know that after the State
12 of the State is going to come the Governor's
13 budget and an address that will go along with
14 that that will outline the priorities of the
15 executive branch. We have a new chancellor at
16 SUNY and CUNY. And those are the types of things
17 that I would hope that we as a legislative body
18 wouldn't just put on our higher education
19 institutions without hearing from them first, so
20 I won't feel comfortable in moving forward and
21 supporting this.
22 In concept, I think it sounds great
23 to say we should have our public institutions
24 look at our elections and then recommend policy
25 back to us. But just saying that SUNY and CUNY
144
1 alone, without any private institution or outside
2 entity, should have some kind of impact or some
3 kind of input to how we run our elections in
4 New York State, I think we're missing a grand
5 opportunity here and could wash over a lot of
6 institutional knowledge for great schools that
7 have done a phenomenal job, nationwide names in
8 schools that have done a phenomenal job in the
9 area of polling, how elections run, what
10 motivates voters, how we make sure that people
11 feel enfranchised and actually are enfranchised.
12 If we just do this in our, you know,
13 castle down the hill or the castle up the hill --
14 that's SUNY down the hill and this one up the
15 hill -- I think we miss a grand opportunity to
16 make good public policy, and that's why I'll be
17 voting no and encourage my colleagues to do the
18 same. Thank you, Madam Speaker -- or
19 Madam President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
21 Weik.
22 SENATOR WEIK: Thank you,
23 Madam President. Would the sponsor yield for a
24 question.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
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1 Myrie, do you yield?
2 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes. Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR WEIK: Thank you. So State
6 Board of Elections has oversight with both a
7 Republican and a Democrat. And I'm just curious,
8 because the New York State Board of Elections has
9 no authority over New York State schools, who
10 will be the authority to conduct oversight over
11 this data collection?
12 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
13 Madam President. The data collected by this
14 institute would also have to be sent to the State
15 Board of Elections.
16 SENATOR WEIK: I'm sorry, I didn't
17 hear what he said.
18 SENATOR MYRIE: The -- sure. The
19 data that is collected by this institute would
20 also have to be sent to the State Board of
21 Elections.
22 SENATOR WEIK: Will the sponsor
23 continue to yield?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
25 continue to yield?
146
1 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR WEIK: So, I'm sorry, maybe
5 you could clarify. What is the authority who is
6 going to be overseeing to make sure that this is
7 bipartisan data that's being collected on the
8 part of the SUNY and the CUNY institutes?
9 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you, Madam
10 President, if I could just explain the process.
11 This would require local boards of
12 elections to send the data that they have to this
13 institute. And we mention in the bill explicitly
14 that it has to be nonpartisan. And so this
15 wouldn't be the institute going in and taking
16 information from several -- it's a reporting
17 requirement on the local boards of elections and
18 other school districts to report that information
19 to the institute.
20 And just to address -- I forgot to
21 mention this. This data would be made publicly
22 available. And so this isn't proprietary, this
23 would allow for private institutions, should they
24 so wish, to figure out what the data means to
25 them. But this is really an attempt for us,
147
1 again, to make a central repository from a lot of
2 data that is already being collected.
3 SENATOR WEIK: Thank you,
4 Madam President. Will the sponsor continue to
5 yield.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
7 continue to yield?
8 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR WEIK: So the information
12 coming from the State Board of Elections would be
13 made public before it goes to the institutions,
14 so that individuals could verify that information
15 before it becomes part of this collection with
16 the institute?
17 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes. The board is
18 required to publish the information within five
19 days of receipt.
20 SENATOR WEIK: Okay. Thank you.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
22 Martins.
23 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
24 Madam President. Would the sponsor yield for a
25 few questions.
148
1 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
5 Senator.
6 I'm concerned about those
7 municipalities that don't have board of elections
8 oversight. For example, Madam President, our
9 school boards in suburban communities and rural
10 communities, they oversee their own elections.
11 So they're not subject to board of elections
12 oversight. Our villages have their own
13 oversight; typically it's the village clerk that
14 oversees elections in the village, and so they
15 don't have board of elections oversight.
16 Districts -- water districts, fire districts and
17 the like -- they have their own oversight over
18 their own elections, and therefore they're
19 responsible for those.
20 And so the idea of passing that
21 information on to someone else where there isn't
22 that jurisdiction now -- I just had a question.
23 Is that what you envision by this bill requiring
24 municipalities that do not and are not subject to
25 State Board of Elections or county board of
149
1 elections oversight, that they would have to make
2 this data available to that board of elections?
3 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
4 Madam President. School districts would only be
5 required to send this information to the
6 institute, not the -- not the State Board of
7 Elections.
8 But to the larger point of who is
9 bearing -- who is bearing the cost and what
10 that -- what the implications might be, part of
11 the reason, part of the impetus for this bill is
12 exactly as you stated, Senator, that there are
13 water districts, school districts, sewer
14 districts where we have very little to no
15 information.
16 And so we know for a fact that there
17 has been litigation in school districts and fire
18 districts where language minorities, racial
19 minorities have never seen themselves elected to
20 any of those positions. But it is hard to bring
21 litigation to prove that, because there's no
22 information, and there's no collective
23 information.
24 And so that's part of why we are
25 asking that this reporting be -- be done and be
150
1 done in a swift way, such that anyone who is
2 looking to vindicate some of those rights or to
3 just pick up how we can run our elections better,
4 will have that information.
5 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
6 through you, would the sponsor continue to yield?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
8 continue to yield?
9 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
13 You mentioned perhaps
14 discrimination, racial profiling and other
15 measures that may prevent classes of citizens who
16 would otherwise participate in the process from
17 participating when it comes to districts.
18 Do you have any examples that you'd
19 like to talk to us about or anything you'd like
20 to share with us as part of your incentive for
21 including those districts as part of your
22 legislation?
23 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
24 Madam President, I would be happy to provide a
25 list of lawsuits that have been brought, both in
151
1 the school district context and in the village
2 context, where they were trying to prove that
3 there was discrimination of some sort.
4 I'm very happy to provide that to
5 you and to your entire conference.
6 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
7 will the sponsor continue to yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
9 continue to yield?
10 SENATOR MYRIE: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR MARTINS: So if there is
14 going to be this additional reporting requirement
15 for entities that did not have that requirement
16 in the past -- and the legislation is specific
17 that it has to be in electronic format and it has
18 to include certain data -- does your bill include
19 any reimbursement -- that is, payment -- for this
20 new mandate that would be placed on what would
21 relatively be a small district or village that
22 would not otherwise have a requirement to provide
23 this information?
24 We're talking about school
25 districts, water districts, fire districts,
152
1 villages. Is there any reimbursement for those
2 expenses to offset the impacts of this new state
3 mandate?
4 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
5 Madam President, the bill does not explicitly
6 provide a reimbursement mechanism. That's
7 certainly a discussion we're willing to have.
8 I will note that the bill is the
9 creation of a fund in order to help with the
10 operations of the institute, and I can see a
11 scenario in which both SUNY and CUNY, having gone
12 through the paces a bit, make a determination
13 that this is something that might be utilized for
14 their fund. But I'm certainly willing to have
15 more of a discussion on that.
16 SENATOR MARTINS: And
17 Madam President, through you, if the sponsor
18 would continue to yield for one last question.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator,
20 do you continue to yield?
21 SENATOR MYRIE: Of course.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
23 Senator yields.
24 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
25 Senator, you mentioned that there
153
1 may be lawsuits or there may have been lawsuits
2 claiming some discriminatory intent or that the
3 process in itself was discriminatory. Aside from
4 lawsuits, have there ever been a judgment or
5 adjudication of an issue of discrimination when
6 it comes to any of these entities, districts,
7 villages, when it comes to elections such that
8 would form the basis of such a broad, expensive
9 and far-reaching requirement for, in many
10 instances, institutions that have limited
11 resources and would have to take those resources
12 and spend them to provide this information,
13 rather than providing the resource that they
14 provide for their local community?
15 Is there any actual adjudication
16 where any of these districts have been found to
17 have acted in a discriminatory manner?
18 SENATOR MYRIE: Through you,
19 Madam President, the short answer to that is yes.
20 And I'm again happy to provide it.
21 But I'd argue that this bill
22 actually helps ameliorate that issue because if
23 you bring a lawsuit or bring an action because
24 you feel that an election or a district was
25 discriminatory in some fashion, oftentimes what's
154
1 spent -- what the most money is spent on is
2 experts. And you hire experts to look at the
3 election data, and both sides can't agree on
4 which data is the one that we're going to rely
5 on.
6 This, however, would change that
7 process to say that the data provided by this
8 institute, nonpartisan, would have a rebuttable
9 presumption of validity such that we wouldn't
10 have to spend money or time on the data in
11 determining whether or not this is reliable, and
12 it might help evince no discrimination. If
13 you're in a village or a town or a school
14 district and the information from the institute
15 shows that, wait a second, actually there
16 isn't -- this doesn't bear out in the facts, then
17 we're avoiding the cost of litigation, the cost
18 to the municipalities, all of the things that you
19 guys are worried about.
20 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
21 on the bill.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
23 Martins on the bill.
24 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
25 Madam President, I'm concerned about
155
1 this bill. I'm concerned about the costs that it
2 would pass on to small municipalities, whether
3 they be villages or districts, that have limited
4 resources. They take those resources, they
5 marshal their resources -- they tend to be the
6 most capable and most efficient forms of
7 government, at least in my experience.
8 And here we are going to impose a
9 requirement wholesale that data has to be
10 provided in a certain form. They may not have
11 the ability to provide that data, they may not
12 have ever had to provide it that way, but now
13 they have to upgrade their own computer systems,
14 their own reporting requirements, all for the
15 sole purpose of some abstract -- without there
16 actually being a concrete example.
17 I have no doubt that our county
18 boards of elections throughout the state have the
19 capacity to provide this information. But once
20 we start getting into towns, villages, special
21 districts -- the kinds of communities, frankly,
22 that I represent -- it gets onerous, it's
23 expensive. And although I understand that there
24 may be those in this body that represent a
25 community that is far larger and has the
156
1 resources to do that -- but I don't.
2 And certainly my communities are
3 stretched to the limit when it comes to making
4 ends meet, continuing to provide resources,
5 continuing to serve the community, and shouldn't
6 be asked to take resources from those things that
7 they do, whether it's a fire district, whether
8 it's a water district, whether it's a village --
9 take resources from the things that they do, that
10 they were elected to do, in order to create a
11 database.
12 And if the state wants it, then they
13 should be prepared to reimburse them for it and
14 this bill should wait for that reimbursement to
15 be included in it before it's passed by this
16 body. And so I'll be voting no.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Are there
18 any other Senators wishing to be heard?
19 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
20 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
21 Read the last section.
22 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This
23 act shall take effect immediately.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Call the
25 roll.
157
1 (The Secretary called the roll.)
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
3 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick to explain her vote.
4 SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:
5 Thank you, Madam President.
6 For the reasons recently just stated
7 by my colleague Jack Martins, my district
8 contains many special districts: Local villages,
9 sanitation districts, fire districts, water
10 districts and multiple incorporated villages. As
11 a former trustee and deputy mayor in the local
12 Village of Malverne, I had the task of balancing
13 a budget of a small local village with unfunded
14 mandates that came down from this body. And it
15 is extremely onerous on local government to
16 balance those burdens and take away from the
17 tasks that they're trying to accomplish.
18 So for those reasons, I voted no.
19 Thank you.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
21 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick to be recorded in the
22 negative.
23 Announce the results.
24 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
25 Calendar Number 19, those Senators voting in the
158
1 negative are Senators Borrello,
2 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Gallivan, Helming,
3 Martins, Mattera, Murray, Oberacker, O'Mara,
4 Ortt, Rhoads, Rolison, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk,
5 Weber and Weik.
6 Ayes, 43. Nays, 17.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
8 is passed.
9 Senator Gianaris.
10 SENATOR GIANARIS: Can we now,
11 Madam President, move on to Calendar Number 9, by
12 Senator Hoylman.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
14 Secretary will read.
15 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9,
16 Senate Print 610, by Senator Hoylman, an act to
17 amend the Election Law.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
19 Walczyk, why do you rise?
20 SENATOR WALCZYK: Madam President,
21 would the sponsor yield for some questions.
22 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
24 Hoylman, do you ri --
25 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Yes.
159
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Obviously
2 you rise.
3 (Laughter.)
4 SENATOR HOYLMAN: I rise and I say
5 yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: He rises
7 and says yes. Thank you.
8 The Senator will respond.
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
10 Madam President. What is the -- what is the goal
11 of this bill?
12 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Through you,
13 Madam President, the goal of this bill is to make
14 it easier to vote. I think the goal of all these
15 bills are to make it easier to vote, to bring
16 democracy to the people so we can actually
17 fulfill our duties as citizens.
18 I think many of my colleagues have
19 constituents who remember that casting a mail
20 ballot for the first time in 2020 was due to the
21 COVID-19 pandemic. But I think a lot of people
22 would be surprised to know that one in five
23 absentee ballots from New York City were
24 invalidated during the June 2020 primaries for
25 reasons related to the mail-in process.
160
1 So what we're doing with this
2 legislation, Madam President, is allowing county
3 boards of elections to set up drop boxes outside
4 of traditional polling places or board of
5 election offices, where voters can easily and
6 conveniently return their absentee ballots and
7 help avoid these mail-related invalidations and
8 ensure every vote is counted.
9 In 2020, all but 10 states allowed
10 absentee ballots to be submitted via drop boxes.
11 And nationwide, there are 23 states that already
12 allow absentee ballot drop boxes by statute, so
13 we will be conforming with more than half of
14 the -- about half of the states in this country.
15 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you for the
16 explanation of the goal of the bill.
17 Madam President, through you, if the
18 sponsor would continue to yield.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
20 continue to yield?
21 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR WALCZYK: You mentioned one
25 in five votes by mail in New York City were
161
1 invalidated. Should we be very concerned about
2 the ability for the United States Postal Service
3 to deliver ballots effectively?
4 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Through you,
5 Madam President, what we're -- what we're focused
6 on here is ballot drop boxes. We know that the
7 post office has its issues, and I assume, you
8 know, we have -- we have legislation that will
9 address some of those defects.
10 But what we're doing with ballot
11 drop boxes is creating another secure alternative
12 to the U.S. Post Office that is convenient. It's
13 as convenient as dropping off a book in a book
14 repository at your -- at your local library.
15 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
16 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
17 yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
19 continue to yield?
20 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
22 Senator yields.
23 SENATOR WALCZYK: To your
24 knowledge, has the United States Postal Service
25 lost ballots in the State of New York?
162
1 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Through you,
2 Madam President, no.
3 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
4 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
5 yield.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
7 continue to yield?
8 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR WALCZYK: Has the
12 United States Postal Service committed fraud
13 in -- in the State of New York?
14 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Through you,
15 Madam President, not to my knowledge.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
17 Madam President, if the sponsor could continue to
18 yield.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
20 continue to yield?
21 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR WALCZYK: If we're
25 concerned about mailing in ballots, should we be
163
1 requiring people to pick up their ballots in
2 person?
3 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Through you,
4 Madam President, no. We are simply creating more
5 opportunities for convenience, secure drop-off,
6 and ease of voting -- which should be our goal,
7 as my colleagues have reiterated today, as a
8 democratic institution representing the people of
9 the State of New York.
10 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
11 Madam President, if the sponsor would be so kind
12 as to continue to yield.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
14 continue to yield?
15 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Yes, I would be
16 so kind.
17 (Laughter.)
18 SENATOR WALCZYK: In your opening
19 remarks on the goal of this legislation, you did
20 mention one in five ballots were invalidated in
21 New York City, and the goal of this is to fix
22 that.
23 Was that because of an error done by
24 the United States Postal Service?
25 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Through you,
164
1 Madam President, no, not to my knowledge.
2 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
3 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
4 yield.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
6 continue to yield?
7 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR WALCZYK: Is the sponsor
11 aware that there are a fair number of people that
12 don't trust a drop box for their ballot?
13 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Through you,
14 Madam President. Oh, boy, do I ever. One of
15 them is the 45th President of the
16 United States --
17 (Laughter.)
18 SENATOR HOYLMAN: -- who
19 perpetrated the big lie that the 2020 election
20 was stolen because of ballot drop boxes.
21 There have been conspiracy theorists
22 from one side of our nation to the other who have
23 perpetrated these mistruths without a single
24 scintilla of evidence. It's shocking to me that
25 we would even be mentioning this the week after
165
1 the January 6th insurrection.
2 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
3 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
4 yield.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
6 continue to yield?
7 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR WALCZYK: While we may have
11 disparaging things to say about the certain ways
12 that some people think or don't think, would you
13 acknowledge that there are certain people who
14 don't trust drop boxes, that that could be
15 considered a disenfranchisement of some voters in
16 the State of New York?
17 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Through you,
18 Madam President, no. There is no evidence that
19 fraud has been perpetrated through drop boxes. I
20 know it is the bugbear of the far right and QAnon
21 conspiracy theorists, but study after study after
22 study -- academic, reporters, nonpartisan -- have
23 all come to the same conclusion about fraud about
24 drop boxes. There's no evidence.
25 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you --
166
1 SENATOR HOYLMAN: In fact -- if I
2 may continue. In fact, just the opposite.
3 There's a recent study that showed that ballot
4 drop boxes increase participation by .65 percent,
5 depending on the proximity to the voter.
6 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
7 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
8 yield.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
10 continue to yield?
11 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR WALCZYK: In the last
15 provision of your bill, I notice that these drop
16 boxes would be available even up until the close
17 of the polls on Election Day, is that correct?
18 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Through you,
19 Madam President, yes.
20 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
21 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
22 yield.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
24 continue to yield?
25 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Yes.
167
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
2 sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR WALCZYK: It is the current
4 practice and in statute to allow the postmark
5 right up until the close of polls on
6 Election Day? Or do you need it received -- in
7 order to have a absentee ballot acceptable, does
8 it have to be postmarked that day? Through you,
9 Madam President.
10 SENATOR HOYLMAN: It will need to
11 be postmarked by Election Day.
12 We do know that there are delays
13 with the post office. We hope that ballot drop
14 boxes would circumvent some of those delays.
15 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
16 Madam President, whether it's early-voting pop-up
17 sites or polling locations, as they've
18 traditionally been, what would be the benefit to
19 a voter in the State of New York to drop an
20 absentee ballot in a drop box rather than go to
21 their polling place on Election Day?
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Excuse me.
23 Senator Walczyk, I assume you meant to ask if the
24 sponsor would yield.
25 SENATOR WALCZYK: I did. I did
168
1 mean to ask whether the sponsor would continue to
2 yield.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Will you
4 yield? Senator Hoylman, do you yield?
5 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Yes, I do.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Okay. The
7 question has been asked.
8 SENATOR HOYLMAN: The benefit to
9 the voter is ease, convenience, proximity.
10 Exercising their right to vote. That's not just
11 a benefit to the voter, it's a benefit to the
12 entire State of New York.
13 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you,
14 Madam President.
15 I appreciate your answers.
16 On the bill.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
18 Walczyk on the bill.
19 SENATOR WALCZYK: There's a --
20 there's a couple of questions in this -- in this
21 line-up. You know, obviously we can -- we can
22 have differences in opinion in how the
23 Election Law should be administered in the State
24 of New York. I think if you were to put this out
25 on the ballot, voters would have a different
169
1 opinion. It would be nice to afford them that
2 opportunity.
3 But I think New Yorkers that we
4 represent realize that there's plenty of distrust
5 for the way that elections have run, and I think
6 probably not just your QAnon conspiracy
7 theorists, but on both sides of the aisle.
8 Sometimes when you lose, whether it's in a
9 sporting event, you blame it on the refs, or
10 sometimes in the arena of politics, you could
11 blame it on the rules that seem to be fixed in
12 one direction or the other. And I'm sensitive to
13 that. I mean, we all play by the same rules.
14 But not to consider that there's a
15 significant amount of the population that doesn't
16 trust the way that you run an election, or are
17 proposing to change that we run an election, is
18 really missing the point on encouraging people to
19 vote and enfranchising their vote.
20 And on the portion where we -- I
21 mean, that seems like a new precedent to me,
22 where we're saying your absentee ballot, right up
23 until the moment the polls -- I mean, I'm aware
24 of a process called exit polling, where people
25 are asked whether they voted for one candidate or
170
1 another when they come out of the polling place,
2 Madam President.
3 And I'm aware that campaigns have a
4 mechanism to track by calling their local board
5 of elections and voting sites to track exactly
6 which people have voted and where. Which means
7 that by the end of Election Day, before polls
8 close -- while your drop box, by this proposal,
9 is still technically open to accept ballots -- a
10 campaign would know precisely who in that
11 electoral district has voted and not voted.
12 And I'm not saying that anybody
13 would ever create fraud in this business. But
14 certainly for a citizen in New York State to look
15 at that process and stand up and say, Something
16 doesn't smell right, and I see an opportunity --
17 and then to further distrust this system, I think
18 with this legislation in place would have a grand
19 opportunity to feel like their vote doesn't
20 count.
21 And that would be my biggest concern
22 going into this vote, Madam President. That's
23 why I'll be voting no and encourage my colleagues
24 to do the same. Thank you.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Are there
171
1 any other Senators wishing to be heard?
2 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
3 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
4 Read the last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
6 act shall take effect immediately.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Call the
8 roll.
9 (The Secretary called the roll.)
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Announce
11 the results.
12 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
13 Calendar Number 9, those Senators voting in the
14 negative are Senators Ashby, Borrello,
15 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Gallivan, Helming,
16 Martins, Mattera, Murray, Oberacker, O'Mara,
17 Ortt, Rhoads, Rolison, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk,
18 Weber and Weik.
19 Ayes, 42. Nays, 18.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
21 is passed.
22 Senator Gianaris.
23 SENATOR GIANARIS: Last but not
24 least, Madam President, can we take up
25 Calendar Number 5, by Senator Jackson.
172
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
2 Secretary will ring the bell.
3 The Secretary will read.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5,
5 Senate Print 350, by Senator Jackson, an act to
6 amend the Election Law.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
8 Walczyk.
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you,
10 Madam President. Would the sponsor yield?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
12 Jackson, do you yield?
13 SENATOR JACKSON: Yes, I will.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
15 Senator yields.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you.
17 Through you, Madam President, what's
18 the problem that we're trying to solve with this
19 bill today?
20 SENATOR JACKSON: The problem is
21 we're trying to put forward a bill that has
22 standard operating procedures as far as filing
23 appeals or any type of litigation in the process.
24 And that is with four Appellate Division court
25 areas: One in the first department, in New York
173
1 County; the second department, in Westchester
2 County; the third in Albany; and the last one in
3 Erie County -- in essence, Buffalo.
4 And then it would be standard
5 operating procedure, if you disagreed with any
6 type of electoral process, this is where you go
7 to do it.
8 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
9 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
10 yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
12 continue to yield?
13 SENATOR JACKSON: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
15 Senator yields.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: The sponsor
17 mentioned standard operating procedure. Whose
18 standard operating procedure would that be?
19 Would that be in statute, is that by the Office
20 of Court Administration?
21 SENATOR JACKSON: What we're doing
22 is trying to avoid bad faith, you know,
23 processing of -- of appeals in order to
24 circumvent or slow up the democratic process as
25 far as voting is concerned.
174
1 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
2 Madam President, I wonder if the sponsor would
3 continue to yield.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
5 continue to yield?
6 SENATOR JACKSON: Yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Yes, the
8 Senator yields.
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: In that standard
10 operating procedure, whose bad faith are you
11 referring to?
12 SENATOR JACKSON: Anyone that wants
13 to destroy the democratic process for people to
14 vote with -- you know, knowing that their votes
15 will be counted, and with transparency. It could
16 be anyone.
17 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
18 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
19 yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
21 continue to yield?
22 SENATOR JACKSON: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Yes, the
24 Senator yields.
25 SENATOR WALCZYK: Did the Office of
175
1 Court Administration ask specifically for this
2 change in their standard operating procedure?
3 SENATOR JACKSON: No, not to my
4 knowledge.
5 But there's other areas in which
6 things are happening not only in New York State,
7 but around the entire country regarding this.
8 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
9 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
10 yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
12 continue to yield?
13 SENATOR JACKSON: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Yes, the
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: I think you've
17 explained why you're restricting the venue to
18 four specific counties. Does it have anything to
19 do with the political makeup of the four
20 counties, or was that a consideration?
21 SENATOR JACKSON: No, it has to do
22 with the fact that in areas in New York City --
23 Manhattan, Bronx and what have you -- that's the
24 First Department; Long Island and Westchester
25 County is the second, and so forth and so on. It
176
1 goes all the way up to Erie County and Buffalo.
2 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
3 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
4 yield.
5 SENATOR JACKSON: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR WALCZYK: Why a New Yorker
9 that wants to challenge the constitutionality of
10 an election law, for example, why would they want
11 to travel from the east end of Long Island to
12 Westchester in order to do so?
13 SENATOR JACKSON: Because that's
14 the jurisdiction of the Appellate Division in
15 the -- in the areas where people live at.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
17 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
18 yield.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
20 continue to yield?
21 SENATOR JACKSON: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Yes, the
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR WALCZYK: And why would
25 some New Yorker that wants to challenge the
177
1 constitutionality of New York State's election
2 law want to travel from St. Lawrence County to
3 Albany County?
4 SENATOR JACKSON: I'm so sorry.
5 Can you repeat the question, please?
6 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
7 Madam President, I would. Why would a New Yorker
8 that feels possibly disenfranchised or that one
9 of the election laws that we put in place today
10 is not in keeping with our oath of office and
11 against the New York Constitution that we swore
12 to uphold, why would that voter have to travel
13 from St. Lawrence County to Albany County?
14 SENATOR JACKSON: As far as this
15 bill is concerned, it would be in the
16 jurisdictions that, one, that they live in, based
17 on already established -- where the departments
18 are located at. So first department, second,
19 third, fourth.
20 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
21 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
22 yield.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
24 continue to yield?
25 SENATOR JACKSON: Yes,
178
1 Madam President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR WALCZYK: Are there other
5 areas of the law where we've given this strict
6 and narrowed approach to the judiciary?
7 SENATOR JACKSON: In my
8 understanding, the answer is yes.
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
10 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
11 yield.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you --
13 SENATOR JACKSON: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Yes, the
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: What areas of law
17 would those be?
18 SENATOR JACKSON: With the Albany
19 Commercial Division, regarding insurance
20 policies. And these four areas of the courts
21 where an appeal should be filed was the same put
22 forward last year when we voted on the John Lewis
23 Voting Rights Act.
24 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
25 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
179
1 yield.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
3 continue to yield?
4 SENATOR JACKSON: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Yes, the
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR WALCZYK: Have any of those
8 provisions of the John Lewis Voting Rights Act
9 been challenged for their constitutionality yet?
10 SENATOR JACKSON: Not to my
11 knowledge.
12 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
13 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
14 yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
16 continue to yield?
17 SENATOR JACKSON: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Yes, the
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR WALCZYK: Has the Attorney
21 General issued an advisory opinion on the
22 constitutionality of this legislation that you're
23 proposing today?
24 SENATOR JACKSON: Not to my
25 knowledge.
180
1 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
2 Madam President, would the sponsor --
3 SENATOR JACKSON: That that is
4 why -- why am I putting this forward? I think
5 that in -- in the explanation here, this bill
6 attempts to reduce the partisan gamesmanship that
7 occurs in Election Law-related litigation.
8 Currently it is too -- far too easy
9 for those seeking to destabilize the electoral
10 process to do so through frivolous litigation.
11 So this bill aims to reduce that and prevent the
12 forum shopping that seems recently -- by
13 designating one court in each judicial department
14 in the state as the appropriate venue to
15 challenge the Election Law.
16 And I said to you earlier, in
17 answering an earlier question -- I didn't say it
18 was Republicans. It could be Republicans,
19 Democrats, independents, whoever it is. It's
20 putting order in our process and not -- and to
21 avoid, you know, filing litigation which tries to
22 stop the system from going forward in a
23 democratic way.
24 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
25 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
181
1 yield.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
3 continue to yield?
4 SENATOR JACKSON: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR WALCZYK: If we're going to
8 make a determination on how the judicial branch
9 should do their business, why wouldn't we just
10 make an amendment to the State Constitution
11 and -- and restructure the way that the
12 Appellate Division works in these challenge
13 cases?
14 SENATOR JACKSON: You can do that
15 yourself, sir.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: Madam President,
17 on the bill.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
19 Walczyk on the bill.
20 SENATOR WALCZYK: I mean, this
21 seems like insider baseball stuff, and it -- and
22 it really is -- the constitutionality of -- of
23 certain provisions of the John Lewis Voting Act
24 haven't been challenged yet.
25 And I -- I just bring up the
182
1 Constitution in this debate a couple of times
2 because I -- I think it's important. Actually,
3 we all think it's important, because we were all
4 in this room with our left hand on a Bible, many
5 of us, and all our right hands in the air, and we
6 swore to uphold it.
7 The Office of Court Administration
8 didn't ask specifically for this legislation.
9 The Attorney General hasn't ruled on it. The
10 provisions that are anything like it haven't been
11 challenged on a constitutional basis. And it has
12 a constitutional bearing. We're telling the
13 judicial branch and, really, New Yorkers that may
14 feel that some of the laws in New York State that
15 affect the way that we do elections in New York
16 State are challenged for their constitutionality.
17 It's -- it's funny that coming off of a debate
18 where we talked about putting drop boxes as close
19 to people's homes all over New York State so that
20 they could feel so enfranchised that, even on
21 Election Day up until the moment that the polls
22 close, they could put that absentee in the -- in
23 the drop box and don't worry, they will be
24 enfranchised. Those same exact voters, if they
25 want to challenge a law in the State of New York,
183
1 well, congratulations, if you're out east on Long
2 Island, you've got to drive to Westchester and
3 pay an attorney to do that. And congratulations
4 if you're up on the Canadian border; you have to
5 drive to either Rochester or Albany if you want
6 to challenge that. Talk about
7 disenfranchisement.
8 Since you're amending the New York
9 State Constitution and you're telling courts how
10 to challenge the Constitution, we're
11 essentially -- and I understand the -- the
12 gentleman's comments, you know, concerns about
13 cherry -- cherry-picking judges from certain
14 counties or certain areas. This is exactly what
15 you're doing in reverse. You're saying now only
16 our judges, only the judges that we select in
17 these four counties, and you will drive to go see
18 them. Well, that doesn't seem very fair.
19 Last week we swore -- we swore an
20 oath to uphold the Constitution, and this week,
21 well, we'll have an opportunity, just with this
22 vote right here, to hold up our end of that
23 bargain to the State of New York. I'm not going
24 to violate this oath, not this guy. I'll be
25 voting no.
184
1 And I appreciate the opportunity,
2 Madam President.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator --
4 Senator Stec, why do you rise?
5 SENATOR STEC: Thank you,
6 Madam President. If the sponsor would please
7 yield for questions.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
9 Jackson, do you yield?
10 SENATOR JACKSON: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR STEC: Thank you. Thank
14 you, Senator Jackson. Happy New Year.
15 SENATOR JACKSON: Happy New Year.
16 SENATOR STEC: So I'm -- I'm not
17 the ranking member on the Elections Committee.
18 Certainly like, I think, everyone in this room
19 and all of our staff and hopefully the vast
20 majority of our constituents, I care deeply about
21 our elections process.
22 I want to make sure I understand
23 this bill. I think I do, but I want to make it
24 clear for perhaps those watching at home. This
25 bill would limit challenges to Elections Law
185
1 constitutionality issues to four counties. If
2 you have an issue that you want to bring forth to
3 question the constitutionality of some sort of --
4 a portion of our Elections Law, you'd have to
5 either go to New York City, Westchester County,
6 Albany County, or Erie County. Is that correct?
7 SENATOR JACKSON: Only if it's the
8 constitutionality of the allegations.
9 SENATOR STEC: All right, so on --
10 Madam President, if the sponsor would continue to
11 yield, please.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
13 continue to yield?
14 SENATOR JACKSON: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
16 Senator yields.
17 SENATOR STEC: Thank you. So
18 there's 62 counties in the State of New York. I
19 represent all the parts of six of them. Out of
20 those 62 counties, the only place to bring that
21 kind of lawsuit, that kind of question, would be
22 judges in those four counties. Is that correct?
23 SENATOR JACKSON: Yes, depending on
24 where you lived at. So if you lived upstate in
25 the county next to Erie County, the jurisdiction
186
1 would be in Buffalo. I mean, why would you
2 travel all the way to New York to file it?
3 SENATOR STEC: Madam President, if
4 the sponsor would continue to yield.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
6 continue to yield?
7 SENATOR JACKSON: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR STEC: All right. It's a
11 beautiful state that we live in. It's a very
12 large and diverse state. It can be difficult to
13 travel, depending on the time of year, depending
14 on where you live in the state. I'm just
15 curious, you know, have you ever been to Franklin
16 County?
17 SENATOR JACKSON: Frankly, no, I
18 have not. I don't even know where it is.
19 SENATOR STEC: That would have been
20 my sub-question, but thanks for answering that
21 for me.
22 Madam President --
23 SENATOR JACKSON: I've been to
24 Buffalo. My daughters went to University of
25 Buffalo, so I've been up there, many years.
187
1 SENATOR STEC: All right. That --
2 that's farther away than New York City for me,
3 but -- Madam President, if the sponsor would
4 continue to yield, please.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
6 continue to yield?
7 SENATOR JACKSON: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR STEC: All right, thank
11 you, Madam President. I won't go through all the
12 counties I represent. But just real quick, have
13 you ever been to Clinton County or Warren County?
14 SENATOR JACKSON: I -- I don't
15 know. I may have driven through there. I mean,
16 when I played basketball at SUNY New Paltz I went
17 to many places upstate.
18 SENATOR STEC: All right, fair
19 enough -- well, SUNY New Paltz, okay. Back home
20 they're laughing right now.
21 SENATOR JACKSON: I said there was
22 many other places that we went to play --
23 Cortland and all over the place.
24 SENATOR STEC: Madam President, on
25 the bill.
188
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
2 Stec on the bill.
3 SENATOR STEC: All right, thank
4 you. I appreciate Senator Jackson's time, and
5 thank you for allowing me to have a little bit of
6 fun with him here. But this is a very important
7 issue to me and to everybody.
8 You know, my Senate district --
9 excuse me. My Senate district is larger than
10 the -- the states of Connecticut and Rhode Island
11 combined. When I leave my house and I drive to
12 the farthest point of my district, that's a
13 three and a half hour drive.
14 This bill would ask those people
15 that live up on the Canadian border -- in
16 Potsdam, in Messina, in Canton, in Malone, in
17 Plattsburgh -- to drive three, four, five hours
18 to Albany. That is not equal access to the law.
19 That is not equal access to their government.
20 That is not equal access to the courts. You are
21 disenfranchising rural voters with this
22 legislation.
23 Somebody that lives in Franklin
24 County -- that's Saranac Lake, that's Tupper
25 Lake, that's Malone, a good part of the
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1 Adirondacks, a gorgeous part of our state -- they
2 have every right to expect to have the same
3 treatment by the laws of the State of New York as
4 somebody that lives in Westchester County or
5 New York City or Erie County. Their money's as
6 green as yours and mine, their taxes are as high
7 as yours and mine.
8 They should not have to -- and oh,
9 by the way, in every other aspect of New York
10 State they're paying through the nose because
11 they live so rural. If you want medical
12 treatment, if you want mental health treatment,
13 people up there likely have to drive to Syracuse
14 or Albany for the services that many of you hop
15 on the subway for or walk down the block for.
16 But one of the most basic tenets of
17 our democracy is that they should have equal
18 access to the law. Equal justice for all. All
19 you're doing here is you're penalizing rural
20 voters -- and we've all seen the maps. We've all
21 seen the maps. We know what red or blue -- where
22 red or blue tend to live. I find it impossible
23 to believe that this was not done with that lens
24 at all.
25 There's no -- I don't see a benefit
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1 to anyone, except for somebody looking for
2 partisan advantage, to making it more difficult
3 for somebody that lives in Steuben County or
4 Clinton County or Franklin County or Essex County
5 or Warren County or Washington County to access
6 the courts. And that's exactly what this bill
7 would do.
8 It is wrong on so many levels. It
9 is beneath us as elected officials to tolerate
10 legislation like this. I'll be voting against
11 it, and I hope that everyone else does too.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
13 Martins.
14 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
15 Madam President. If the sponsor would yield for
16 a few questions.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
18 Jackson, do you yield?
19 SENATOR JACKSON: Yes.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
21 Senator yields.
22 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you,
23 Madam President. Through you, the sponsor had
24 mentioned that the purpose of this bill is to
25 combat frivolous challenges and lawsuits
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1 involving the Election Law. I was hoping that
2 the Sen -- the sponsor would be able to provide
3 us with perhaps an example of the type of
4 frivolous lawsuits to which he is referencing.
5 SENATOR JACKSON: So let me say
6 that this bill was brought about by a member of
7 my team with discussing electoral process. And
8 this lawsuit was filed to challenge absentee
9 ballots. And Republican and Conservative parties
10 filed a lawsuit in October of 2022 to challenge
11 the constitutionality of the absentee ballot law
12 that allows an excuse to be fear of catching
13 COVID. Okay? Everybody had, you know, the COVID
14 pandemic.
15 So approximately 188,000 voters used
16 absentee ballots to cast votes in the 2022
17 election. The lawsuit was filed in
18 Saratoga County, presided over by Justice Dianne
19 Freestone. Justice Freestone was the first vice
20 chair of the Saratoga County Republican Party.
21 Justice Freestone ruled that the law for
22 canvassing absentee ballots was unconstitutional.
23 And the Appellate Division overturned
24 Justice Freestone's ruling and held that the
25 lawsuit was filed too late.
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1 So what we're saying, it doesn't
2 matter if you're Republican, Conservative,
3 Democrat -- but if you file a frivolous lawsuit,
4 we want to make sure that you go through the
5 process to file it correctly in the four
6 geographical areas when you're challenging the
7 constitutionality of any of the matters.
8 And this is what we're trying to do
9 to make sure that democracy is really in action,
10 where people can file absentee ballots and expect
11 those absentee ballots to be counted and not
12 challenged six, eight months later when there
13 should have been, if any -- a real challenge
14 should have been challenged right when -- when,
15 you know, one -- within one month of when the
16 violation occurred. And so that's what this --
17 that's what brought about this bill.
18 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
19 through you, if the sponsor continue to yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
21 Jackson, do you continue to yield?
22 SENATOR JACKSON: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
24 Senator yields.
25 SENATOR MARTINS: Thank you.
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1 Senator, in that action that was
2 brought in Saratoga County, was the plaintiff a
3 resident of Saratoga County?
4 SENATOR JACKSON: I have no idea.
5 SENATOR MARTINS: Madam President,
6 on the bill.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
8 Martins on the bill.
9 SENATOR MARTINS: So we've spent
10 the good part of today in the afternoon talking
11 about expanding the right to vote, access to
12 government for people to be able to participate
13 in the process. And yet here we are. Because
14 someone in this state chooses to challenge the
15 constitutionality of a law that happens to be an
16 election law, we're going to limit their ability
17 to do so.
18 As was mentioned earlier, there are
19 62 counties in this state. That means there are
20 62 Supreme Courts, each in a separate county.
21 That was done for a reason, Madam President.
22 That was done so that everyone would have access
23 to justice locally.
24 Now, I'm not going to presuppose
25 whether a lawsuit in Saratoga County was
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1 frivolous or whether there was a lawsuit in
2 Nassau County that was frivolous, or in
3 Erie County or any other county. But I will
4 defend the right of every citizen in this state
5 and every person in this state to avail
6 themselves of the justice system as it was set up
7 by the state's Constitution.
8 The New York State Constitution
9 recognizes the Supreme Court of the State of
10 New York in each county as a court of general
11 jurisdiction. That means that the citizens and
12 residents of that state county have the right to
13 go to that county court to challenge any laws
14 that they want. It's up to them. And they may
15 be frivolous. They may be wrong. But they may
16 be right. And they have an absolute right, under
17 the State Constitution, to challenge their laws.
18 Now, Madam President, as you know, I
19 represent an area of the North Shore of
20 Nassau County. I happen to be in the Second
21 Appellate Division. And anyone -- myself
22 included, if I wanted to challenge a law -- would
23 have to go up to Westchester.
24 Now, our colleague Senator Stec
25 mentioned that it can take three and a half hours
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1 for him to drive from one end of his district to
2 the other. Being in Nassau County and having to
3 go through New York City, it may well take me
4 more than four hours to go from Nassau County to
5 Westchester. But how about -- but how about --
6 and this is -- how about understanding that there
7 is a system in place and that every resident in
8 this state should be able to avail themselves and
9 to seek justice when they want?
10 Not because we choose to allow them,
11 not because we believe that certain lawsuits are
12 frivolous, but because they have a fundamental
13 right under the Constitution to challenge those
14 laws, to challenge us. Because we, as a body,
15 certainly can make mistakes. And if we do, and
16 if we overstep, they should be able to go to
17 their local Supreme Court and file that
18 challenge. Not because we've decided they're
19 going to go to Erie, Albany, New York or
20 Westchester County.
21 My colleagues, please, let's
22 understand what we're doing here. We're creating
23 winners and losers because we've decided that
24 we're going to make it less -- or more difficult,
25 let me put it that way, for our residents, for
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1 those we represent, to seek justice and to
2 challenge government. And that's not something I
3 can tolerate.
4 Madam President, I'll be voting no,
5 and I urge my colleagues to do the same.
6 Thank you.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
8 Rhoads.
9 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you, Madam
10 President. Will the sponsor yield?
11 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
12 Jackson, do you yield?
13 SENATOR JACKSON: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
15 Senator yields.
16 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you, Senator
17 Jackson.
18 SENATOR JACKSON: Happy New Year to
19 you.
20 SENATOR RHOADS: Very nice to meet
21 you. Happy New Year.
22 Article VII of the New York State
23 Constitution sets forth the jurisdiction of the
24 Supreme Court as the court of original
25 jurisdiction. This legislation, however,
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1 restricts the ability of local Supreme Courts to
2 be able to hear cases involving the
3 constitutionality and sends it directly to the
4 Appellate Division.
5 Have you sought any opinion as to
6 whether or not this bill is constitutional and
7 why this was not presented as an amendment to the
8 Constitution, given what Article VII says?
9 SENATOR JACKSON: So it doesn't
10 start at the Appellate Division. As you know, it
11 would have to be started at the Supreme Court
12 level within the jurisdiction of that
13 Appellate Division.
14 So in regards to Nassau County, you
15 can file it in Nassau County as far as Supreme
16 Court, but the Appellate Division has to be -- it
17 has to be filed within the jurisdiction of the
18 Appellate Division.
19 SENATOR RHOADS: It has to be filed
20 within the jurisdiction of the Appellate
21 Division? Sorry.
22 SENATOR JACKSON: It has to be
23 filed in a certain court. Or the whole part of
24 the Supreme Court.
25 So yes, you would have to file it
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1 within the Appellate Division wherever you live
2 at.
3 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
4 yield to another question, Madam President?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
6 continue to yield?
7 SENATOR JACKSON: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR RHOADS: So if I want to --
11 if I want to challenge the constitutionality of a
12 provision of the Election Law as a Nassau County
13 resident, right now I would go to the
14 Nassau County Supreme Court and I would file my
15 challenge.
16 If I want to challenge this under
17 your law, where would I now have to go?
18 SENATOR JACKSON: In response,
19 Madam -- this -- these -- these lawsuits are
20 being filed by political parties and people that
21 are representatives of political parties, and
22 that -- they are challenging the
23 constitutionality of it.
24 SENATOR RHOADS: Will the sponsor
25 yield to another question?
199
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Do you
2 continue to yield?
3 SENATOR JACKSON: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR RHOADS: But as a private
7 citizen, don't I have to right to file a
8 challenge? Does it have to be a political party?
9 SENATOR JACKSON: No. You --
10 you -- anyone can file a lawsuit. But that's not
11 really what the reality is.
12 The reality is that political
13 parties are throwing themselves in there in order
14 to stop the system where, in this particular case
15 that I cited, 188,000 absentee ballots, they were
16 trying to throw those out. And where? It wasn't
17 in New York City.
18 You know, we -- we must allow the
19 democratic process for people to vote by absentee
20 ballots that they're entitled to do that,
21 especially during the pandemic. And that's what
22 that was about. And you mean to tell me you
23 would want these ballots not to be counted? Come
24 on.
25 SENATOR RHOADS: On the bill.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
2 Rhoads on the bill.
3 SENATOR RHOADS: Thank you,
4 Madam President.
5 And thank you for yielding to my
6 questions.
7 I believe that this bill is flatly
8 unconstitutional. The bottom line is Article VII
9 of the State Constitution establishes the
10 jurisdiction of the court, establishes where
11 those courts are supposed to be heard. And this
12 bill essentially is changing that without
13 amending the Constitution.
14 Essentially what Senator Jackson, I
15 believe, is concerned about is forum shopping.
16 But the solution to forum shopping is not the
17 State Legislature choosing the forum for
18 litigants. There are provisions if someone
19 brings a frivolous lawsuit. Judges have
20 discretion to be able to order sanctions.
21 Appellate Divisions have the ability to order
22 sanctions for frivolous lawsuits.
23 And in the particular example that
24 the Senator gave, I have no idea what the outcome
25 was, but I suspect that the costs of the
201
1 litigation as well as the sanction, if it was
2 frivolous, probably was imposed on whatever party
3 brought it frivolously. The courts have the
4 ability to handle that.
5 So to try and solve a problem or a
6 perceived problem, on a day when what we've been
7 talking about with respect to all of the other
8 bills that we've considered is how to provide
9 people additional access to the government -- we
10 are now effectively telling somebody that lives
11 in Montauk, out in the far end of Suffolk County,
12 that you have to drive two hours to get to
13 Westchester in order to be able to access the
14 court that you would ordinarily just have to go
15 to Riverhead to be able to access, 40 minutes
16 away.
17 Or, as in Senator Stec's example,
18 you might have to drive three and a half or
19 four hours to be able to access a venue.
20 So I'm concerned about this on a
21 number of levels. Whereas we've been talking
22 about providing access, what this bill
23 effectively does is deny access to the courts.
24 Because we're concerned about political parties
25 acting, we're going to take away the rights of
202
1 every single constituent to be able to access the
2 courts when they have concerns about the
3 constitutionality of the election system.
4 Protecting democracy? This is in
5 effect destroying democracy, because you're
6 refusing to allow people to have the ability,
7 when they're challenging a law that this body
8 passes, denying them the opportunity to
9 effectively be able to appeal that law. Because
10 for most people, it's not worth driving
11 three hours to get to a courthouse when they
12 could drive 10 minutes away from their location.
13 They're simply not going to do it. It's ensuring
14 that only political parties will be the ones.
15 And then to substitute our judgment
16 as to what the forum of litigation should be for
17 decisions made by individual litigants? That's
18 not the way the process is supposed to work.
19 So I would urge my colleagues, take
20 a look at what we're doing here. Instead of
21 giving rights, we're effectively taking rights
22 away. And we're doing so in a form that if it
23 were challenged, the constitutionality of it were
24 challenged, I certainly don't think passes
25 muster if you take a look at Article VII.
203
1 So I will be voting against this
2 bill to protect my residents' rights to be able
3 to access the courts in a convenient manner, and
4 I would encourage my colleagues to do the same.
5 Thank you, Madam President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
7 Murray.
8 SENATOR MURRAY: Madam President,
9 can I speak on the bill?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
11 Murray on the bill.
12 SENATOR MURRAY: Thank you.
13 I'm just trying to figure out what
14 we're doing here right now. We've voted on
15 multiple bills with the -- under the premise of
16 making it easier, giving greater access to voters
17 to letting them participate in the process, and
18 to make it easier for everyone. Now we're
19 voting on a bill that would make it more
20 difficult to challenge that process?
21 I live in Suffolk County. Last
22 night -- I had an early morning radio interview
23 this morning, so I figured I'm going to come up,
24 be well rested, so I left a little late last
25 night. I left right when the Green Bay-Detroit
204
1 game kicked off, and I'm listening to it on the
2 radio. I left my office in my home in East
3 Patchogue. By the time I hit Westchester, which
4 is where I would have to go if I wanted to file a
5 grievance, we were entering the fourth quarter of
6 the game.
7 Meanwhile, I could have gone
8 20 minutes to Riverhead. I bypassed Mineola.
9 This is making it easier? How can we possibly
10 justify this? How can we possibly say, after
11 voting on the previous bills -- again, under the
12 guise of making it easier -- we're now going to
13 make it harder? I just don't understand what
14 we're doing here when we want people
15 participating.
16 And if they have questions on the
17 process, they should be able to do that. As you
18 said, you said -- the sponsor himself said there
19 were frivolous lawsuits brought about, and they
20 were found to be frivolous. That's how the
21 system works. But we don't limit the ability to
22 file these grievances because we think they may
23 be frivolous. We let the system work.
24 But by limiting it in this basis --
25 as previous speakers have said, there are
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1 62 counties, 62 Supreme Courts. We're going to
2 limit it down to four. And we're making it
3 easier? I don't think so.
4 For that reason I'll be voting no,
5 and I urge everyone in this chamber to do the
6 same.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
8 Stec on the bill.
9 SENATOR STEC: Thank you. I
10 apologize. Very briefly on the bill.
11 As I've listened, the more concerned
12 I am. I've been in the Legislature -- this is my
13 11th year now, and I've seen a lot of legislation
14 that I did not like. I saw a lot of legislation
15 that, in my opinion, was clearly
16 unconstitutional. I am not an attorney. A
17 simple layman's read, this is -- it may not be
18 the most controversial, it may be inside
19 baseball, it may be the kind of thing that a lot
20 of people are going to be knowingly affected by.
21 But this is the most blatantly unconstitutional
22 piece of legislation that I've seen in over my
23 decade in -- in the house.
24 It is -- we are disenfranchising
25 residents of 58 counties, and we're showing
206
1 preference to residents of four counties, four of
2 the biggest and bluest counties in the State of
3 New York. The point was just made, we just spent
4 the better part of today trying to increase, bend
5 over backwards to make it really, really easy --
6 and perhaps not as secure -- to access the ballot
7 box. Personally I -- I struggle to see how it's
8 a big deal to find a way to vote on Election Day,
9 and all the other access that we had already I
10 thought was a tremendous improvement or
11 extension.
12 But to say that that doesn't go far
13 enough and to pass the legislation that we
14 earlier did today, and then turn around in the
15 same breath and try to constrict access to the
16 courts -- 58 out of 62 counties, you won't be
17 able to challenge the constitutionality of
18 election law because of this. It's outrageous.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Are there
20 any other Senators wishing to be heard?
21 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
22 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
23 Read the last section.
24 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
25 act shall take effect immediately.
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1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Call the
2 roll.
3 (The Secretary called the roll.)
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
5 Myrie to explain his vote.
6 SENATOR MYRIE: Thank you,
7 Madam President.
8 Just for the record -- and I hear my
9 colleagues' outrage -- this is not a unique
10 structure in our law. Particularly as it
11 pertains to voting rights, you've heard for --
12 for the John Lewis Voting Rights Act of New York.
13 But for the strongest voting rights act ever
14 passed prior to Shelby County, the Supreme Court
15 ruling in the 2013, it used to be the case that
16 all of those individual grievances or perceived
17 violations of that were also relegated to certain
18 courts in this state. If you were bringing a
19 voting rights action that was federal, you had to
20 go to certain courts in this state. And that's
21 been the case for 50 years.
22 So this isn't abnormal. This isn't
23 something that we have not seen. Part of the
24 reasoning there is that we have stability when it
25 comes to the constitutionality of election law.
208
1 As all of us know in this chamber, there is
2 something unique about the Election Law as it
3 pertains to elections happening. And what we've
4 seen is constitutionality challenges during
5 elections, at the -- right at the end of an
6 election, that disturb the democratic process.
7 So in order to insert
8 predictability, stability, and to compare it to
9 what we have done for over 50 years on the
10 federal level, that is why I'll be voting yes.
11 Thank you.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
13 Myrie to be recorded in the affirmative.
14 Senator Gianaris to explain his
15 vote.
16 SENATOR GIANARIS: Thank you,
17 Madam President.
18 Having listened to the debate in
19 this chamber over the last couple of hours, I
20 think the takeaway I have is a pretty simple one.
21 My Democratic colleagues want to make it easier
22 to vote and harder to bring frivolous lawsuits to
23 disenfranchise people, and my Republican
24 colleagues want to make it harder to vote and
25 easier to bring frivolous lawsuits to
209
1 disenfranchise people.
2 I proudly vote in the affirmative.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
4 Gianaris to be recorded in the affirmative.
5 Senator Skoufis to explain his vote.
6 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Thanks very much,
7 Madam President.
8 I've listened attentively to -- to
9 this debate, and one would think that filing
10 election lawsuits are as American as apple pie,
11 that people just wake up the day after
12 Election Day and they decide to defend our
13 democracy and go to court and go to their nearest
14 county courthouse.
15 We all know better than that,
16 because half the people in this room have
17 probably filed -- or people on our behalf, our
18 campaigns' behalf, have filed election lawsuits.
19 We know that's not how that happens. Tim
20 Harkenrider and three other people in
21 Steuben County didn't wake up one day and say,
22 I'm going to file a lawsuit against the
23 redistricting maps. Ed Cox and a few other
24 people in the state party call up the locals and
25 say, Hey, we want to be in Steuben County, find
210
1 us some committee members, find us some lawyers
2 to work with, and put their name on a lawsuit.
3 That's how election lawsuits happen
4 in New York State. We're not disenfranchising
5 anybody here. Folks in the North Country aren't
6 going to have to travel four hours to file a
7 lawsuit in Albany. The same way it works now
8 will be the same way it works after this is
9 enacted. Those folks in the North Country will
10 call up John Ciampoli in Albany and say, Hey,
11 we've got a problem, we need you to file a
12 lawsuit on our behalf. That's what happens in
13 New York State.
14 So on -- for the 29 people who are
15 watching this live feed --
16 (Laughter.)
17 SENATOR SKOUFIS: -- and are
18 questioning after watching this debate: Oh, my
19 God, they're disenfranchising people, I'm not
20 going to be able to file a -- nobody does that in
21 New York State. That's the truth. That's how it
22 worked before. That's how it will work after.
23 The only difference being you won't be able to
24 forum shop.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: How do you
211
1 vote, Senator Skoufis?
2 (Laughter.)
3 SENATOR SKOUFIS: I vote up.
4 (Laughter.)
5 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
6 Stec to explain his vote.
7 SENATOR STEC: I think we finally
8 got to the cusp of it here. And it came out, and
9 I thank my colleague for bringing it out. And
10 thank God for Steuben County and that Supreme
11 Court that caught that case. Wow, they were
12 venue shopping. Well, it happened to go there
13 where it got a fair hearing. And how do I know
14 it got a fair hearing? Because it went to the
15 level -- the next level after the next level
16 after the next level till it finally got to the
17 Court of Appeals, justices all appointed by the
18 Governor, all by Democratic governors. And it
19 still reeked so bad that no matter how hard they
20 tried to look at an angle on those maps, your
21 party's court designees ruled it unconstitutional
22 and we got a fair map out of that. The
23 congressional maps were fair out of that. And
24 frankly, the balance of power in the House of
25 Representatives may have very well turned on that
212
1 Supreme Court judge in Steuben County.
2 So you -- you all -- they did the
3 venue shopping. You would have, under this
4 legislation, this body venue shop and determine
5 that instead of going to Steuben County, it would
6 have been -- gone to somebody in New York City.
7 And I question whether or not we'd have gotten
8 the same outcome on that redistricting challenge
9 as we did here.
10 But again, it started in
11 Steuben County, a rural county, but it went all
12 the way to the Court of Appeals, and the Court of
13 Appeals had to -- and I'm sure that it bugged a
14 lot of them. And frankly, from what I see about
15 the future of our Judiciary Committee and the
16 direction we're going in on appointing the next
17 chief judge, apparently the courts bother a lot
18 of people on the other side of the aisle in this
19 chamber.
20 I'm proudly voting no.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
22 Stec to be recorded in the negative.
23 Senator Borrello to explain his
24 vote.
25 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you,
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1 Madam President.
2 I find it interesting that we're
3 talking about trying to reduce frivolous lawsuits
4 in New York State. This body passes legislation
5 after legislation after legislation that includes
6 private rights of action. What is a private
7 right of action? It's so one person can create
8 what is essentially a class action lawsuit. And
9 that in itself creates many, many frivolous
10 lawsuits, billions of dollars paid out, problems
11 that have been created. New York State is the
12 most litigious state in the most litigious
13 country in the nation.
14 But all of a sudden, we want to take
15 the high road and we're going to stop frivolous
16 lawsuits in New York State. No. You are indeed
17 trying to stop the process of bringing a
18 constitutional challenge. Because if you're
19 really concerned about frivolous lawsuits in
20 New York State, half the bills that we pass here
21 wouldn't include a private right of action. That
22 is exactly what that is. Frivolous lawsuits,
23 that's what we do here. We incubate them in this
24 chamber. And you're -- today we're drawing a
25 line in the sand to stop people from being able
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1 to successfully challenge the unconstitutionality
2 of a particular law.
3 So I'll be voting no. Thank you.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: Senator
5 Borrello to be recorded in the negative.
6 Announce the results.
7 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
8 Calendar Number 5, those Senators voting in the
9 negative are Senators Ashby, Borrello,
10 Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Gallivan, Helming,
11 Mannion, Martins, Mattera, Murray, Oberacker,
12 O'Mara, Ortt, Rhoads, Rolison, Stec, Tedisco,
13 Walczyk, Weber and Weik.
14 Ayes, 41. Nays, 19.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: The bill
16 is passed.
17 Senator Gianaris, that completes the
18 reading of the controversial calendar.
19 SENATOR GIANARIS: Is there any
20 further business at the desk?
21 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: There is
22 no further business at the desk.
23 SENATOR GIANARIS: I move to
24 adjourn until tomorrow, Tuesday, January 10th, at
25 11:00 a.m.
215
1 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER: On motion,
2 the Senate stands adjourned until Tuesday,
3 January 10th, at 11:00 a.m.
4 (Whereupon, at 5:49 p.m., the Senate
5 adjourned.)
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