978
1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE
2
3
4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
5
6
7
8
9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 February 26, 2026
11 11:42 a.m.
12
13
14 REGULAR SESSION
15
16
17
18 SENATOR ROXANNE J. PERSAUD, Acting President
19 ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary
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21
22
23
24
25
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
3 Senate will come to order.
4 I ask everyone present to please
5 rise and recite the Pledge of Allegiance.
6 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited
7 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: In the
9 absence of clergy, let us bow our heads in a
10 moment of silent reflection or prayer.
11 (Whereupon, the assemblage respected
12 a moment of silence.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Reading
14 of the Journal.
15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
16 Wednesday, February 25, 2026, the Senate met
17 pursuant to adjournment. The Journal of Tuesday,
18 February 24, 2026, was read and approved. On
19 motion, the Senate adjourned.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Without
21 objection, the Journal stands approved as read.
22 Presentation of petitions.
23 Messages from the Assembly.
24 Messages from the Governor.
25 Reports of standing committees.
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1 Reports of select committees.
2 Communications and reports from
3 state officers.
4 Motions and resolutions.
5 Senator Gianaris.
6 SENATOR GIANARIS: Good morning,
7 Madam President.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Good
9 morning.
10 SENATOR GIANARIS: We are going to
11 take up two resolutions simultaneously, both by
12 Senator Tedisco: Previously adopted
13 Resolution 1488 and previously adopted
14 Resolution 1525.
15 Please have their titles read and
16 recognize Senator Tedisco.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
18 Secretary will read.
19 THE SECRETARY: Resolution 1488, by
20 Senator Tedisco, congratulating the Shenendehowa
21 High School Girls Varsity Cross Country Team and
22 Head Coach Rob Cloutier upon the occasion of
23 capturing the New York State Federation
24 Cross Country Team Championship.
25 Resolution 1525, also by
981
1 Senator Tedisco, congratulating Jolie Chichak of
2 Shenendehowa High School upon the occasion of
3 capturing the 2025 New York State Public
4 High School Athletic Association Girls Tennis
5 Singles State Championship on October 29, 2025.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
7 Tedisco on the resolutions.
8 SENATOR TEDISCO: Thank you so
9 much, Madam President.
10 And Madam President and my
11 colleagues, I'm pleased today to welcome a
12 federation championship team and an individual
13 state championship to the chamber today, both
14 from Shenendehowa High School.
15 First I introduce to you the Girls
16 Cross Country Team and Head Coach Rob Cloutier,
17 who captured their first-ever New York State
18 Federation Championship on Sunday, November 22,
19 2025, at Bowdoin Park in Wappingers Falls,
20 New York.
21 Prior to their federation success,
22 the team won the State Class A title at the
23 New York State Public High School Athletic
24 Association Girls Cross Country Championship on
25 Saturday, November 15, 2025, at Queensbury
982
1 High School in Queensbury, New York.
2 The team garnered an impressive
3 Suburban Council dual meet record of 10 and 2,
4 and an overall record of 32 wins and only two
5 losses.
6 The team also embodied the term
7 "scholar athletes," achieving enviable success in
8 the classroom with a team-wide grade point
9 average of 94.05 percent.
10 I ask you to welcome these
11 outstanding student athletes. And their names
12 are, if they could stand as I call them out:
13 Leyla Bhusri, Addison Morelli, Katie Battle,
14 Riley Lynch, Courtney Krawiecki, Raquelle Landa,
15 and Alex Beer.
16 Along with them is Assistant Coach
17 Beth Haig and Head Coach Rob Cloutier.
18 Also I introduce to you, with them,
19 another outstanding champion from Shenendehowa
20 High School, the New York State Public High
21 School Athletic Association Tennis Single State
22 Champion Jolie Chichak, here with Coach Bill
23 MacArthur and her proud mom, Kelly Scott Chichak.
24 Jolie, just a freshman, and a state
25 champion, captured the 2025 New York State Public
983
1 High School Athletic Association Tennis Singles
2 State Championship at the USTA Billie Jean King
3 National Tennis Center in Flushing, New York, on
4 Wednesday, October 29, 2025, with a 7-6, 6-4
5 straight sets victory over her opponent.
6 Jolie is the first singles state
7 champion from Section 2 since 1998, and
8 Shenendehowa High School's first ever singles
9 state champion.
10 Jolie has earned the number-one
11 singles spot on the Shenendehowa Varsity Girls
12 Tennis Team each year since her first year as a
13 7th grader, compiling an outstanding record of 15
14 and 2, followed by a record of 14 and 1 as an
15 8th grader -- this is the 8th grader competing
16 against all grades -- and an undefeated record of
17 8 and 0 as a 9th grader. Who's going to sign up
18 to want to be her agent? I don't know, but let's
19 get in line here.
20 Like the cross country team, Jolie's
21 success on the court translates into the academic
22 space with a grade point average of 96.33.
23 And of course the common denominator
24 to individual and team success starts at the top
25 with the school's athletic director, who also
984
1 joins us in the chamber today, Lucas LaBarre.
2 Madam President and my colleagues, I
3 would ask you to welcome them, congratulate them,
4 and say we're proud of them and offer them all
5 the cordialities of this august body.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Thank
7 you.
8 To our guests, the Girls Cross
9 Country champions and the tennis champion, I
10 welcome you on behalf of the Senate. We extend
11 to you the privileges and courtesies of this
12 house.
13 Please remain standing and be
14 recognized. Congratulations.
15 (Standing ovation.)
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
17 resolutions were adopted on January 28th and
18 February 4th.
19 Senator Gianar -- oh,
20 Senator Serrano.
21 SENATOR SERRANO: Hi.
22 Please recognize Senator Oberacker
23 for an introduction.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
25 Oberacker for an introduction.
985
1 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you,
2 Madam President.
3 I rise today to introduce the
4 members of Downsville Central School Student
5 Council.
6 Downsville is in the heart of the
7 Catskills and in the 51st Senate District. And
8 for my esteemed colleagues from the city,
9 Downsville is the home to the Pepacton Reservoir,
10 which supplies New York City with nearly a
11 quarter of its drinking water -- or, as I've come
12 to I think affectionately say here in the
13 chamber, dihydrogen oxide.
14 So with that, I would like to --
15 Madam President, I would like to introduce
16 everybody here to the Senate.
17 And we'll start off with Kendall
18 Acevedo, we have Raymon Bull, we have Riley
19 Emerich, we have Jullianna Franco, Ryan Fritz,
20 Charley Furman, Riley Furman, Avery Howard, Sadie
21 Kaja, Allison Kirby, Harmony McAdams, Olivia May,
22 Angelina Noviello, Elizabeth Odell, Aarav Patel,
23 Tyler Reed, Addyson VanValkenburg, Everet West,
24 and Kenny Young.
25 And our advisors are Nickie Odell
986
1 and Jeannie Langdon.
2 Madam President, I would like to
3 afford them all the courtesies of this chamber.
4 Thank you.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Thank
6 you.
7 To our guests from Downsville
8 Central Student Council, I welcome you on behalf
9 of the Senate. We extend to you the privileges
10 and courtesies of this house.
11 Please remain standing and be
12 recognized. Congratulations.
13 (Standing ovation.)
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
15 Serrano.
16 SENATOR SERRANO: Let's please take
17 up the reading of the calendar.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
19 Secretary will read.
20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
21 110, Senate Print 487, by Senator Fernandez, an
22 act to amend the Executive Law.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Read the
24 last section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
987
1 act shall take effect immediately.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
3 roll.
4 (The Secretary called the roll.)
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
6 Fernandez to explain her vote.
7 SENATOR FERNANDEZ: Thank you,
8 Madam President.
9 Every August 31st families across
10 our state pause to remember someone they lost.
11 But remembrance alone is not enough. Overdose
12 Awareness Day is a commitment -- to prevention,
13 to treatment, to recovery, and to policies rooted
14 in evidence instead of fear.
15 Overdose is not a moral failure. It
16 is a public health crisis. And we know what
17 works. Access to naloxone saves lives. Drug
18 checking tools save lives. Harm reduction saves
19 lives. Treatment without stigma saves lives.
20 As chair of the Committee on
21 Alcoholism and Substance Use Disorders, I see the
22 data. But more importantly, I see the people
23 around it, behind it, supporting it. Parents who
24 never stopped hoping, siblings who carried grief
25 quietly, and New Yorkers fighting every day for
988
1 their recovery. Designating Overdose Awareness
2 Day in New York sends a clear message that we
3 will continue to confront the crisis with
4 compassion, with science, and with resolve.
5 We will remember those that we've
6 lost. We stand with those in recovery. And we
7 will keep building a system that saves lives.
8 I proudly vote aye.
9 Thank you.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
11 Fernandez to be recorded in the affirmative.
12 Announce the results.
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 228, Senate Print 3574, by Senator Cleare, an act
18 to amend the Real Property Tax Law.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Read the
20 last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
24 roll.
25 (The Secretary called the roll.)
989
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Announce
2 the results.
3 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
4 Calendar 228, voting in the negative:
5 Senator Walczyk.
6 Ayes, 53. Nays, 1.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 249, Senate Print 5003A, by Senator Hinchey,
11 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Read the
13 last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
17 roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Announce
20 the results.
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
23 is passed.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 261, Senate Print 4408, by Senator May, an act to
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1 amend the Environmental Conservation Law.
2 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Lay it
4 aside.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 308, Senate Print 378, by Senator Brouk, an act
7 to amend the Education Law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Read the
9 last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect on the 90th day after it
12 shall have become a law.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
14 roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll.)
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Announce
17 the results.
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
20 is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 312, Senate Print Number 5392, by
23 Senator Scarcella-Spanton, an act to amend the
24 Education Law.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Read the
991
1 last section.
2 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
3 act shall take effect immediately.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
5 roll.
6 (The Secretary called the roll.)
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Announce
8 the results.
9 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
10 Calendar 312, voting in the negative are
11 Senators Borrello, Helming, Martinez, Rhoads,
12 Tedisco and Walczyk.
13 Ayes, 48. Nays, 6.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 316, Senate Print 1424, by Senator Liu, an act to
18 amend the Education Law.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Read the
20 last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
24 roll.
25 (The Secretary called the roll.)
992
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Announce
2 the results.
3 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
5 is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 329, Senate Print Number 6274, by
8 Senator Scarcella-Spanton, an act to amend the
9 Private Housing Finance Law.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Read the
11 last section.
12 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
13 act shall take effect on the 90th day after it
14 shall have become a law.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
16 roll.
17 (The Secretary called the roll.)
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Announce
19 the results.
20 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
22 is passed.
23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
24 334, Senate Print 315, by Senator Skoufis, an act
25 to amend the Alcoholic Beverage Control Law.
993
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Read the
2 last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Announce
9 the results.
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
12 is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 345, Senate Print 5277, by Senator Bailey, an act
15 to amend the Cannabis Law.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Read the
17 last section.
18 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Lay it
20 aside.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 352, Senate Print 4467, by Senator Mayer, an act
23 to amend the Workers' Compensation Law.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Read the
25 last section.
994
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Announce
7 the results.
8 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 54.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
10 is passed.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 353, Senate Print 4473, by Senator Ramos, an act
13 to amend the Labor Law.
14 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Lay it
16 aside.
17 Senator Serrano, that completes the
18 reading of today's calendar.
19 SENATOR SERRANO: Okay. At this
20 time can we remove the lay-aside on Calendar 345
21 and take it up on the noncontroversial calendar.
22 On consent.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: On
24 consent, Calendar 345 is restored to the
25 calendar, the noncontroversial calendar.
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1 The Secretary will read.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 345, Senate Print 5277, by Senator Bailey, an act
4 to amend the Cannabis Law.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Read the
6 last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Announce
13 the results.
14 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
15 Calendar 345, voting in the negative are
16 Senators Ashby, Helming, Lanza, Martinez,
17 Mattera, Ortt, Palumbo, Rhoads, Stec, Tedisco and
18 Walczyk.
19 Ayes, 43. Nays, 11.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
21 is passed.
22 Senator Gianaris, that completes the
23 reading of the noncontroversial calendar.
24 SENATOR GIANARIS: Let's move on to
25 the controversial calendar, please.
996
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
2 Secretary will ring the bell.
3 The Secretary will read.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 261, Senate Print 4408, by Senator May, an act to
6 amend the Environmental Conservation Law.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
8 Walczyk, why do you rise?
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: If the sponsor
10 would yield for some questions, Madam President.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Will the
12 sponsor yield.
13 SENATOR MAY: I will.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: So this bill
17 would allow different energy projects to be put
18 on state reforestation areas. It points to
19 Article 7 of the Public Lands Law, which
20 establishes a fee paid to the Secretary of State
21 for $50.
22 Is that how much the fee would be
23 for a solar developer to put solar panels on a
24 state reforestation area?
25 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
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1 Madam President. Could I ask my colleague for
2 the specific reference in law that stipulates
3 that fee?
4 SENATOR WALCZYK: Yeah. Your bill
5 points to Article 7 of the Public Lands Law.
6 This is the area where in public lands you can
7 have different purposes in reforestation areas.
8 It talks a lot about mining.
9 And then in Section 82, subsection
10 3, a fee of $50 shall be paid to the Secretary of
11 State for each such notice of the filing.
12 So is that -- it's a very old fee.
13 Will that be the fee that a solar company will be
14 paying the State of New York for developing a
15 solar field on a state reforestation area?
16 (Pause.)
17 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
18 Madam President. We can get more information on
19 that, but my understanding is that it's just the
20 initial filing fee. It stands as is.
21 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
22 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
23 yield?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
25 sponsor yield?
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1 SENATOR MAY: I do.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
3 Senator yields.
4 SENATOR WALCZYK: Now, that same
5 section of law that you reference in your bill --
6 notwithstanding any provisions of Article 7 of
7 the Public Lands Law, which is the one that you
8 point to -- really focuses on mining operations
9 with a minor footprint. It requires mines, if
10 the state allows them on public lands, to pull
11 anything out of the ground. A minimum royalty of
12 not less than 2 percent of fair market value.
13 What royalties will a solar company
14 have to pay to the residents of the State of
15 New York for having the pleasure of having a
16 solar field on a state reforestation area if your
17 bill becomes law?
18 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
19 Madam President. So any such project will
20 involve a negotiation with the state and the
21 setting of a fair market fee.
22 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
23 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
24 yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
999
1 sponsor continue to yield?
2 SENATOR MAY: I will.
3 SENATOR WALCZYK: But a solar panel
4 harvests electrons from the sky and they're not
5 pulling minerals out of the earth, so Article 7
6 wouldn't really apply to them.
7 Would it be a 2 percent royalty or
8 some other royalty? Is it negotiable? Or should
9 we assume that there's no royalty paid to the
10 residents of the State of New York for using land
11 that they currently own to have solar fields on?
12 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
13 Madam President. My understanding is that it's
14 negotiable.
15 I also want to point out that most
16 of the projects that we imagine will be built in
17 this -- under this law would be transmission
18 lines running across state reforestation lands
19 from a solar or wind site that is not on state
20 reforestation land. So those negotiations would
21 be separate.
22 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
23 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
24 yield?
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
1000
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR MAY: I will.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR WALCZYK: I don't -- I'm
6 not aware that the state has allowed much mining
7 operations on state-owned land or forest --
8 reforestation areas that are owned by the people
9 of the State of New York in a while. And that's
10 probably why Article 7 of the Public Lands Law
11 Section 83 says "for each tree measuring 4 inches
12 or more in diameter, at a height of one foot from
13 the ground, which shall be cut, the party
14 operating the mine shall pay the State Treasury
15 the sum of one dollar."
16 Will that also apply for solar
17 companies when they're cutting down trees on our
18 state reforestation areas? Will it be one dollar
19 per tree no matter what the size?
20 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
21 Madam President. First of all, we did pass
22 Senator Serrano's bill last year that bans new
23 leases for mining on state reforestation lands.
24 So that those provisions aren't applicable
25 anymore for -- in terms of new mining projects.
1001
1 For these, like I said, there will
2 be a negotiation. The language of the bill and
3 the underlying law and practice of DEC is to
4 minimize any tree cutting or other disturbance of
5 the land, where possible. A lot of state
6 reforestation lands are -- have been logged, are
7 already devoid of trees, and they're an
8 opportunity for more trees to grow up. But there
9 already are transmission corridors or potential
10 transmission corridors that don't require cutting
11 trees to begin with.
12 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
13 Madam President, will the sponsor continue to
14 yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
16 sponsor yield?
17 SENATOR MAY: I will.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR WALCZYK: So what will be
21 the charge for a solar company, if your bill
22 becomes law, that comes into a state
23 reforestation and cuts trees? What will that
24 charge be if the Public Lands Law, as it's
25 currently written at $1, doesn't apply and it's
1002
1 negotiable?
2 (Pause.)
3 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
4 Madam President. The way this actually works,
5 and we envision it working in the future, is that
6 for any project that it might involve cutting
7 down trees, there would be a mitigation plan that
8 would involve planting more trees than the number
9 of trees that were cut down.
10 So this would be -- the negotiation
11 would be less about money and more about
12 mitigation of the site.
13 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
14 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
15 yield?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
17 sponsor yield?
18 SENATOR MAY: I will.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
20 sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR WALCZYK: Yeah, so I didn't
22 write this bill or reference Article 7 of Public
23 Lands Law, but currently the law says it's a
24 dollar per tree. You've essentially taken the
25 mining operation section, repeated it, and put in
1003
1 green energy. So I think that same section of
2 law would apply.
3 Are you saying you're just hopeful
4 that DEC or ORES will negotiate that it is a
5 dollar or more per tree, $1 being the minimum in
6 statute? And then what would protect our
7 forestlands from a solar company that wanted to
8 cut those trees? What would ensure that the
9 residents of the State of New York would at least
10 get that dollar?
11 SENATOR MAY: So first of all --
12 through you, Madam President -- we're talking
13 about reforestation lands, not just, you know,
14 like old growth forest or that sort of thing.
15 But also all of these projects would
16 have a whole process, there would be a SEQR
17 review process of these. There will be
18 mitigation plans put in place.
19 So that the $1 amount I think is a
20 red herring. There are many, many other ways
21 that DEC will be involved in protecting those
22 lands.
23 And I will point out that this is in
24 stark contrast to what the federal government is
25 trying to do right now with our federal lands,
1004
1 where they are just opening up federal lands to
2 mining and basically raping and pillaging of the
3 land without any kind of oversight or need for
4 repair.
5 So what we're doing in New York is
6 much more responsible.
7 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
8 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
9 yield?
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
11 sponsor continue to yield?
12 SENATOR MAY: I do.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR WALCZYK: I'll focus on the
16 germane parts of that response.
17 So I'm not sure if you're aware, but
18 the Governor of the State of New York has
19 proposed in her budget this year rolling over
20 SEQR for green energy projects. That would apply
21 if your bill also becomes law. There would be no
22 SEQR review.
23 Unless there's a provision that I've
24 missed here. Is there?
25 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
1005
1 Madam President. We will be negotiating in the
2 budget to substitute her proposal with my bill,
3 which actually does have robust protections and
4 keeps SEQR review much stronger in these kinds of
5 situations.
6 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
7 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
8 yield?
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR MAY: I will.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR WALCZYK: What is the
15 purpose of a state reforestation area?
16 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
17 Madam President, there is -- are a variety of
18 purposes. These are parcels of land that are
19 acquired by the state either to -- after logging
20 has occurred to, you know, reforest, put the
21 trees up.
22 But some of them are also acquired
23 for recreational purposes. Maybe they're good
24 hunting or fishing areas. There are quite a few
25 different purposes.
1006
1 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
2 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
3 yield?
4 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
5 sponsor yield?
6 SENATOR MAY: I do.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: Would you say
10 that it's in line with Article 14 of the New York
11 State Constitution (reading) that the dedication
12 thereof for the practice of forest or wildlife
13 conservation? Does that sound right to you?
14 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
15 Madam President. I -- I agree with that.
16 And I will say in many cases these
17 are lands that will be leased for forestry, so
18 they might be -- they might be acquired in order
19 to grow the trees for future logging. So to say
20 that it's just for conservation is a -- is a
21 simplification.
22 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
23 Madam President, will the sponsor continue to
24 yield?
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
1007
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR MAY: I do.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR WALCZYK: Yeah, the
6 regrowing of trees or good forest management
7 practices would be directly in line with the
8 New York State Constitution Article 14 that says
9 "the dedication thereof for the practice of
10 forest or wildlife conservation."
11 Is your bill in line with Article 14
12 of the New York State Constitution.
13 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
14 Madam President, yes.
15 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
16 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
17 yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
19 sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR MAY: I do.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR WALCZYK: How is putting
24 solar panels on a reforestation in line with the
25 dedication thereof for the practice of forest and
1008
1 wildlife conservation?
2 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
3 Madam President. As it is for the practice of
4 logging, this is the -- some of the -- as I
5 mentioned before, some of these lands have
6 multiple uses. And solar panels or wind
7 production on state reforestation lands would be
8 in accord with the CLCPA and with other state
9 laws that are designed to protect the overall
10 environment over time so that we can be
11 protecting our forests and our waterways and all
12 of our resources from the depredations of rapid
13 climate change.
14 So there are -- there are always
15 tradeoffs, but this is one where I think it is a
16 positive for our environment.
17 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
18 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
19 yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
21 sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR MAY: I do.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR WALCZYK: Yes, so I think I
1009
1 understand the spirit of what you're trying to do
2 here now. You want to take state reforestation
3 areas, open them up to green energy projects.
4 The idea is that that development, whether it be
5 wind, solar, battery storage on a state
6 reforestation area, the benefit will then be used
7 for other lands somewhere else.
8 Does your legislation require a
9 solar company to purchase and preserve like
10 lands, additional state reforestation areas
11 somewhere else in the state that would be
12 preserved?
13 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
14 Madam President. It clearly states in the bill
15 that this would only allow uses that are in --
16 that do not interfere with the operation of the
17 reforestation areas for the purposes for which
18 they were acquired.
19 Which is why we primarily expect
20 that this will be used for transmission lines
21 that could be put through that would not
22 interfere with reforestation or with recreation
23 or whatever the purpose was.
24 And they would facilitate production
25 of green energy. That is something that we have
1010
1 agreed that this state needs.
2 But not production on the land, just
3 transmission through the land.
4 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
5 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
6 yield?
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
8 sponsor yield?
9 SENATOR MAY: I will.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR WALCZYK: Yeah, that's
13 something that I wanted to talk to you about
14 because I agree that "shall not interfere with
15 the operation of such reforestation areas for the
16 purposes for which they were acquired," as you
17 just cited, a state reforestation area is
18 acquired for reforestation.
19 But the bill also says, which I
20 think contradicts that, such installation shall
21 include but not be limited to solar power and
22 wind power -- include but not be limited to,
23 under such terms.
24 How is a solar-powered facility in
25 line with the purpose of a state reforestation
1011
1 area? How can you grow a forest and have solar
2 panels in the same spot?
3 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
4 Madam President. This is why it says -- you
5 didn't finish that sentence -- under such terms
6 as may be prescribed by the department and upon
7 such conditions that the exercise of such
8 agreement rights shall not interfere with the
9 operation of such reforestation.
10 So this probably, as I said, will
11 mean there might be wind production on some of
12 those sites, but solar is unlikely to be on-site
13 on the reforestation land. It's the transmission
14 lines that are so important.
15 We know across upstate there are
16 many, many proposals for solar and wind
17 installations. And local people often organize
18 to make sure that those are not in their
19 viewshed, on their prime farmland, in certain
20 places where they don't want them. So there's a
21 push to put these kinds of facilities in places
22 that are out of the way.
23 And that means you need to figure
24 out a way to get transmission lines through --
25 often through state reforestation lands. This
1012
1 has been one of the major barriers to getting
2 some of these projects built that will ultimately
3 bring down energy costs and allow us to fulfill
4 the climate law.
5 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
6 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
7 yield?
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR MAY: I will.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR WALCZYK: Well, I don't
14 think anybody -- despite the giant solar sprawl
15 that we've seen across upstate New York, I don't
16 think anybody has seen the cost savings of that
17 or believes that it will provide it.
18 But if you don't envision that solar
19 panels will be on state reforestation areas, then
20 why did you write it in this legislation? Why
21 did you even provide for it? If this was just
22 about transmission and not wind and solar, then
23 why even outline those things and say "but not
24 even limited to"?
25 I mean, is battery storage going to
1013
1 be allowed on state reforestation areas?
2 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
3 Madam President. As I mentioned, reforestation
4 lands are not necessarily forested. There may be
5 some lands where it is appropriate to site a
6 solar installation.
7 But whatever activity is envisioned
8 on these lands, it has to fit with these
9 criteria, that it doesn't interfere with what the
10 purposes were for which that land was acquired.
11 But it may be that they are ideal
12 places for transmission lines, for example,
13 because they have been forested in the past -- or
14 have been logged in the past and are now being
15 reforested.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
17 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
18 yield.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
20 sponsor yield?
21 SENATOR MAY: I do.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR WALCZYK: So you are saying
25 that the state has purchased state reforestation
1014
1 areas that are out of line with Environmental
2 Conservation Law that states in order to -- and
3 I'm looking at 9-0501, the state's power to
4 acquire reforestation areas. "In order to
5 provide for the acquisition of lands outside the
6 Adirondack Park and the Catskill Park as defined
7 in subdivisions 1 and 2 of Section 9-0101, which
8 are adapted for reforestation and establishment
9 and maintenance thereon of forests for watershed
10 protection, the production of timber and other
11 forest products" -- that's the logging that you
12 referenced -- "and for recreation and kindred
13 purposes, the department may acquire in the name
14 of the state a gift, purchase, appropriation."
15 It goes on to say how.
16 So are solar panels on state
17 reforestation areas a kindred purpose? Is that
18 the reach that we have here?
19 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
20 Madam President. That is up to DEC to decide if
21 it is compatible with the purposes of the land.
22 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
23 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
24 yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
1015
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR MAY: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR WALCZYK: So under
6 Section 480 of Real Property Tax Law, counties
7 can't tax reforestation areas.
8 Will counties be able to assess a
9 solar farm or negotiate a PILOT in a
10 reforestation area under this legislation?
11 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
12 Madam President. I do not know the answer to
13 that.
14 But I -- since the likelihood is
15 that those kinds of production facilities will be
16 outside of the reforestation lands, that would be
17 presumably perfectly possible.
18 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
19 Madam President, will the sponsor continue to
20 yield?
21 SENATOR MAY: I would.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR MAY: Yup.
25 SENATOR WALCZYK: I just want to be
1016
1 clear on that. You believe that counties will --
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator,
3 can you continue to go through the chair. Not
4 directly to the member.
5 SENATOR WALCZYK: Oh, I'm sorry I
6 thought that I did.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Thank
8 you.
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
10 Madam Chair. So just for the record, you believe
11 that counties will be able to tax, assess,
12 negotiate PILOTs with solar fields, wind farms,
13 battery storage facilities that are sited on
14 state reforestation areas?
15 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
16 Madam President. No, what I said was the
17 likelihood is that those production facilities
18 will not be on the state reforestation lands.
19 They will be off of that land. But if they are
20 on the state reforestation land, I believe the --
21 that that's a different matter.
22 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
23 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
24 yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
1017
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR MAY: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR WALCZYK: Yeah, I just want
6 to go back to your bill --
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator.
8 SENATOR WALCZYK: Oh. Through you,
9 Madam President.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Thank
11 you.
12 SENATOR WALCZYK: I just want to go
13 back to the bill here. In line 10 you say such
14 installations "shall include," not may include,
15 but not be limited to solar power and wind power
16 under such terms as may be prescribed by the
17 department. Meaning the Department of
18 Environmental Conservation.
19 So why write that they shall include
20 solar and wind power if your intent in this
21 legislation isn't even to bring solar and wind
22 power on to state reforestation areas?
23 (Pause.)
24 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
25 Madam President. Whether it's "shall" or "may,"
1018
1 the bill was intended for completion of
2 connectivity across state reforestation lands.
3 And earlier in the bill it says
4 that, siting in connectivity of renewable energy
5 installations and the transmission and
6 distribution of electricity therefrom.
7 That is the main purpose of this
8 bill. And so we should focus on that
9 transmission issue, which is the primary reason
10 why we need to make sure that state reforestation
11 lands are available for these purposes.
12 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
13 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
14 yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
16 sponsor yield?
17 SENATOR MAY: I do.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR WALCZYK: Is there a ban on
21 the --
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator.
23 SENATOR WALCZYK: Oh, I thought I
24 went through you, Madam Chair.
25 Through you, Madam Chair, would the
1019
1 sponsor continue to yield.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Yes, the
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR WALCZYK: Is there a ban on
5 herbicides used in reforestation areas in this
6 bill?
7 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
8 Madam President, that is not part of this bill.
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
10 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
11 yield.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
13 sponsor yield?
14 SENATOR MAY: I do.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
18 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
19 yield?
20 (Laughter.)
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: I think
22 the sponsor yielded.
23 SENATOR WALCZYK: Will solar
24 companies be able to use Roundup and other
25 products like that? Is there any provision in
1020
1 your bill that would protect our state
2 reforestation areas from products that they can
3 use that they've used in a number of their solar
4 facilities in New York?
5 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
6 Madam President. I'll repeat again that these
7 projects shall not interfere with the operation
8 of such reforestation areas for the purposes for
9 which they were acquired.
10 That is, the DEC will put guardrails
11 on any of these projects so that they don't
12 interfere with reforestation.
13 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
14 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
15 yield?
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
17 sponsor yield?
18 SENATOR MAY: I do.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
20 sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR WALCZYK: Is there a
22 prohibition on battery storage facilities in this
23 bill, or would those also -- because there's
24 often -- solar fields are usually congruent with
25 battery storage facilities because of the way
1021
1 that power peaks when a solar field harvests the
2 power. And then the way that our energy demand
3 requires that power, they're often paired up with
4 battery storage facilities.
5 Is there any prohibition for
6 battery storage facilities to be on state
7 reforestation areas in your bill?
8 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
9 Madam President, there is not.
10 But I will reiterate that if the
11 purpose of this is transmission, that
12 transmission could make it possible to site the
13 storage elsewhere.
14 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
15 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
16 yield.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
18 sponsor yield?
19 SENATOR MAY: I do.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR WALCZYK: So if the purpose
23 is transmission, then why have we said "shall
24 include, but not limited to" solar power and wind
25 power?
1022
1 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
2 Madam President. This bill is intended to be
3 permissive, to allow a variety of green energy
4 options and not to stipulate restrictions on
5 them.
6 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you.
7 Madam President, on the bill.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
9 Walczyk on the bill.
10 SENATOR WALCZYK: I am not the
11 Lorax, but I speak for the trees.
12 I speak for the trees, for the trees
13 have no tongues. And I'm asking you, ma'am, at
14 the top of my lungs, you are making a thneed, a
15 new kind of thneed, a shiny black glass-covered
16 solar-power thneed.
17 It's a panel, it's a charger, a
18 green energy fix. But you're chopping down trees
19 to make room for these sticks.
20 But it's power, you yell, it's clean
21 and it's bright. It brings us the sun in the
22 dark of the night.
23 But I say, Senator Once-ler, you're
24 crazy with greed. There is no one on earth who
25 will need that much thneed. You're hacking down
1023
1 cherries, maple soft as the silk, with the sweet
2 calming smell of fresh butterfly milk.
3 You are chopping them down for a
4 sustainable plot. If you ruin the place, tell
5 me, what have you got? A factory for sunshine, a
6 sterile dead ground where the beaver once
7 frisked, now there's no one around.
8 They loved living there, in the
9 shade of the trees. Now they've got no more
10 home. Out, out, with the bees!
11 You are destroying the air to make
12 clean air, you say? If you kill off the trees,
13 you are throwing away the machine that God made,
14 the true breathing machine that turned bad air to
15 good with their lush leafy greens.
16 And the Eastern bluebird waking up
17 before dawn has no branch for a nest. Now the
18 hollows are gone.
19 You can't fix the planet by
20 stripping it bare. You are making power without
21 cleaning the air. A tree is living, breathing
22 and green -- far better than any black
23 solar-paneled machine.
24 So stop with your axes, stop with
25 your hacking. Please cease. Let the trees grow.
1024
1 Let them breathe, give them peace. For a tree
2 falls the way that it leans, and you're leaning,
3 I fear, towards some very dark scenes.
4 Unless (pause) you vote no.
5 (Laughter; applause.)
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Are
7 there any other Senators wishing to be heard?
8 Senator Lanza.
9 SENATOR LANZA: (Whistling.)
10 Madam President, thank you. If I could put some
11 prose to that poetry.
12 You've heard me tell the story
13 before. On Staten Island we had this wonderful
14 forest, pretty old growth, thousands of several
15 different species of oak trees, maples. There
16 were wetlands. It was one of the most beautiful
17 areas you ever saw.
18 And a few years ago they came in and
19 they killed every tree, they killed every animal,
20 and they filled in every wetland. And they
21 replaced it with a solar panel field, which is
22 now, like Staten Island's roads, covered with
23 snow.
24 We don't know how much electricity
25 is being generated there. No one can tell us
1025
1 where it's even going. And I'm told recently
2 that these solar panels are ending -- are nearing
3 the end of their useful life.
4 So if the choice is between killing
5 our trees and having solar panels with dubious
6 efficacy, clearly the example I've just cited to
7 you on Staten Island is an environmental
8 disaster, not an environmental benefit.
9 There is plenty of vacant land
10 across New York State where we could be engaging
11 in these green energy plans. We should not be
12 cutting down forests and killing wildlife in
13 order to do it.
14 I vote no.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Are
16 there any other Senators wishing to be heard?
17 Senator Borrello.
18 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you,
19 Madam President.
20 First of all, nothing I'm going to
21 say is going to rhyme. But let me say this.
22 You know, Senator May mentioned
23 that, you know, we have people that have
24 organized to push back against solar panels that
25 are their sight lines around forestland or
1026
1 farmland. Yeah, they do, and they lose. Every
2 single time. Thanks to the bad policies that are
3 passed in this chamber.
4 You know, I don't think people
5 realize this. These people are not in the energy
6 business, they are in the taxpayer-subsidy
7 business. They want the cheapest way to do it
8 for the maximum return. And the only profit, the
9 only profit is from taxpayer dollars.
10 If there was no subsidies, there
11 would never be another wind or solar project
12 built anywhere in the United States, period, end
13 of sentence. Because there's no profit in it.
14 So instead we created these ways to
15 clear things out for them. And that's what's
16 going to happen here too. These guys are the
17 kings of the bait-and-switch. Every time we have
18 a new solar project go up in my district, they
19 say, yeah, we're fine with a 500-foot setback.
20 And then all of a sudden, Well, we have to have a
21 -- you know, we're going to file a grievance,
22 we're going to ask for that 500 feet to be
23 200 feet.
24 Happens every single time. They're
25 con artists. And we allowed this to happen.
1027
1 When I was county executive in
2 Chautauqua county, we had a company that wanted
3 to put solar panels on our landfill. We have
4 good closed landfill sites. Things are never
5 going to ever -- they're brownfields that are
6 never going to be used for anything again.
7 So let's do that. We'll put those
8 flexible solar panels -- and when I got to the
9 meeting, the guys that were there selling me the
10 solar panels were like, Oh, no, no, no, no. We
11 can't do that. It's too expensive. We want to
12 cut the forest around the landfill to put up the
13 solar panels, because that's easier and cheaper
14 and faster.
15 And then you have the fact that
16 you've got ORES that can just roll over all the
17 DEC regulations. They send a guy out to say, Oh,
18 yeah, there's no bats in those trees, I don't see
19 them right now, we're all good. You can start
20 cutting.
21 And the idea that this is cheaper is
22 ridiculous. If it's cheaper, why do we have to
23 have these 20- and 30-year power purchase
24 agreements? Where someone, typically a public
25 utility, has to buy the electricity at this price
1028
1 from the solar developer and sell it on the open
2 market for this price {indicating}. That's what
3 a power purchase agreement does.
4 This is not cheaper. It's certainly
5 not cleaner. But it is going to actually impede
6 our ability to have good farmland, forestland in
7 the beautiful place that we all love here in
8 New York State. We are letting these con artists
9 roll over us. And to do it on reforested areas
10 in our public lands is shameful.
11 And I'm also voting no.
12 Thank you, Madam President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Are
14 there any other Senators wishing to be heard?
15 Seeing and hearing none, the debate
16 is closed.
17 The Secretary will ring the bell.
18 Senator Gianaris.
19 SENATOR GIANARIS: Madam President,
20 that reminds me that we've agreed to restore this
21 bill to the noncontroversial calendar.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: On
23 consent, the bill is restored to the
24 noncontroversial calendar.
25 Read the last section.
1029
1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
2 act shall take effect immediately.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
7 May to explain her vote.
8 SENATOR MAY: Thank you,
9 Madam President.
10 If we're going to talk about con
11 artists, let's talk about the fossil fuel
12 industry, which learned in the early 1960s, if
13 not sooner, from the geologists that they hired
14 to go and find oil deposits around the world,
15 they learned from those geologists back then that
16 their business model was putting earth on a
17 collision course with global warming that was
18 going to destabilize the climate. They knew it
19 then.
20 They leaped into action. Not to
21 change their business model, but to sow
22 disinformation, lies and misinformation all
23 across the world, but especially in this country.
24 They hired lobbyists by the thousands all across
25 this country to persuade government officials
1030
1 that there was nothing to see there, we didn't
2 have to worry about it.
3 And they've been doing it ever
4 since. They have put trillions of dollars,
5 probably at this point, into misinformation about
6 fossil fuels. And they continue to do it even
7 now. They are sponsoring all kinds of hate
8 campaigns against green energy as well.
9 While, elsewhere in the world, we
10 are seeing people's -- countries' carbon
11 emissions -- in China, their carbon emissions are
12 coming down because they have made massive
13 investments exactly in the kind of energy that is
14 the energy of the future.
15 Here in New York State, if you want
16 to see the kinds of -- the kinds of savings we
17 get from solar energy, just last summer, in the
18 two hottest days in June, behind the meter solar
19 saved ratepayers over $180 million in two days.
20 And a lot of that was community
21 solar, much of which only works if you can put
22 the transmission lines on some of these kinds of
23 remote areas or through forested lands.
24 So this bill actually could bring
25 our energy costs down while also pushing back
1031
1 against the greatest con artists of all time, the
2 fossil fuel lobby that has captured this country,
3 has shaped how we use cars, it has shaped what
4 our cities look like, it has shaped everything
5 about how we live in this country in order to
6 make us dependent on fossil fuels.
7 And I am proud that here in New York
8 we are working hard to get off that dependence.
9 I vote aye. Thank you.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
11 May to be recorded in the affirmative.
12 Senator Lanza to explain his vote.
13 SENATOR LANZA: Madam President, in
14 spite of the two wrongs make a right argument,
15 I'll be voting no.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
17 Lanza to again be recorded in the negative.
18 Senator Harckham to explain his
19 vote.
20 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Thank you very
21 much, Madam President.
22 I would like to thank Senator May
23 for bringing this bill.
24 I just want to address a couple of
25 comments that we've heard here -- first of all,
1032
1 about fixed prices for solar energy. That's
2 actually a good thing. If you look at the graph
3 of where Community Choice Aggregation prices were
4 last year, before the PSC, in its infinite
5 wisdom, decided to kill Community Choice
6 Aggregation, the graph looks like this
7 (gesturing).
8 And if you look at electricity and
9 natural gas prices for those who didn't have
10 Community Choice Aggregation, it's like this
11 (gesturing). A very stark difference.
12 And that's why those fixed rates are
13 a very powerful thing for consumers. And physics
14 are physics. A kilowatt of clean energy is
15 cheaper than a kilowatt of fossil fuel energy, a
16 kilowatt of nuclear energy. And that's simply a
17 fact of the marketplace. Which is why 95 percent
18 of all the world's new generation is clean
19 energy.
20 The petro state of Texas, which
21 doesn't even believe in climate change, all of
22 their new generation has been wind, solar and
23 battery storage. We heard the savings in
24 New York in two days from the Senator. In
25 10 years -- and this comes from the Texas state
1033
1 regulators; this is not some green tree-hugger
2 number -- $30 billion in savings for Texas
3 ratepayers.
4 What do we have against saving money
5 for our ratepayers? That's all we talk about in
6 this chamber, is the high price of utilities.
7 The answer to climate change and the
8 answer to high utility prices is the same: It's
9 clean energy.
10 I vote aye.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
12 Harckham to be recorded in the affirmative.
13 Announce the results.
14 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
15 Calendar Number 261, voting in the negative are
16 Senators Ashby, Borrello, Gallivan, Helming,
17 Lanza, Mattera, Oberacker, Ortt, Rhoads, Stec,
18 Tedisco, Walczyk and Weber.
19 Ayes, 42. Nays, 13.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
21 is passed.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 353, Senate Print 4473, by Senator Ramos, an act
24 to amend the Labor Law.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
1034
1 Walczyk, why do you rise?
2 SENATOR WALCZYK: Of course through
3 you, Madam President, I hope to ask some
4 questions.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Are you
6 asking the sponsor to yield?
7 SENATOR WALCZYK: Of the sponsor.
8 Yeah, would the sponsor yield for --
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Will the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR RAMOS: Through you,
12 Madam President, I intend to answer such
13 questions.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you,
17 Madam President.
18 In line 30 of page 2, you've added
19 statutory damages. What does statutory damages
20 entail in this context?
21 SENATOR RAMOS: Statutory damages
22 in the context of this bill means 100 percent of
23 the liquidated damages.
24 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
25 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
1035
1 yield?
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
3 sponsor yield?
4 SENATOR RAMOS: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR WALCZYK: Yeah, so -- and
8 that's part of the reason for my question.
9 Because it's listed just before liquidated
10 damages. So what's different here? What's
11 the -- what's the statutory damages mean?
12 SENATOR RAMOS: Through you,
13 Madam President. The intent of this bill overall
14 is to provide clarification over language that
15 has been misconstrued in the way different state
16 courts have applied the law.
17 And so I am hoping that by including
18 both terms, there is no confusion over how
19 recovered wages should be obtained through
20 class-action lawsuits.
21 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
22 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
23 yield?
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
25 sponsor yield?
1036
1 SENATOR RAMOS: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR WALCZYK: The bill does not
5 differentiate between intentional wage theft and
6 good-faith payroll mistakes, does it?
7 SENATOR RAMOS: Through you,
8 Madam President. Wage theft is wage theft.
9 Sometimes it is administrative. Sometimes it is
10 not.
11 The idea behind the bill and any and
12 all recovery efforts through our court system,
13 whether in individual cases or class-action
14 cases, is for a worker to recover the entirety of
15 their wages.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
17 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
18 yield?
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
20 sponsor yield?
21 SENATOR RAMOS: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR WALCZYK: So this bill
25 would be allowing class-action lawsuits against a
1037
1 small business who makes an innocent mistake that
2 they would gladly correct; this would still allow
3 a class-action lawsuit to be brought in that
4 case?
5 SENATOR RAMOS: Through you,
6 Madam President. Very seldom do -- does a
7 situation of that kind reach the bench if it was
8 indeed a administrative error.
9 This is in order for our state law
10 to be in compliance with federal law so that when
11 workers at a workplace present a class-action
12 lawsuit against an unscrupulous employer, they
13 are able to recover the entirety of their wages,
14 just as a worker would if the case was brought
15 individually.
16 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
17 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
18 yield.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
20 sponsor yield?
21 SENATOR RAMOS: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR WALCZYK: So why wouldn't a
25 plaintiff's attorney use this framework to
1038
1 pressure small businesses into settlements? Are
2 you creating kind of an incentive structure for
3 that here?
4 SENATOR RAMOS: Through you,
5 Madam President. The world "settlement" is not
6 in the language of this bill.
7 What the bill's intent is, is to
8 bring the state into compliance with federal law
9 so that when there is a bad boss, they are being
10 held accountable and that the recovered wages
11 equal the recovered wages they would be awarded
12 if they brought the suit in an individual
13 capacity.
14 SENATOR WALCZYK: Through you,
15 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
16 yield?
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
18 sponsor yield?
19 SENATOR RAMOS: Yes.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR WALCZYK: Couldn't this be
23 used to pursue class actions for even technical
24 violations for recordkeeping, violations like
25 incorrectly listing an address on a pay stub and
1039
1 leaving off the correct phone number?
2 I understand that's not the intent,
3 but don't you open the door for that?
4 SENATOR RAMOS: Through you,
5 Madam President. The Senator already asked this
6 question in -- previously when he was talking
7 about administrative errors. Now he's just
8 enumerating them.
9 SENATOR WALCZYK: And through you,
10 Madam President, would the sponsor continue to
11 yield.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
13 sponsor yield?
14 SENATOR RAMOS: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thanks for that.
18 The New York Labor Law provides that
19 if the employer fails to give an employee a wage
20 notification form at hiring, the damages are up
21 to $5,000. In 195, 198. Or if a pay stub is not
22 compliant, the damages are up to $5,000. Because
23 state courts have held those are penalties. They
24 have not permitted class actions for these
25 violations just as an individual action.
1040
1 So under this bill, now a small
2 business could be sued in state court on a class
3 basis for $5,000 for each employee if the
4 employer makes a recordkeeping mistake.
5 Do you think a small business owner,
6 say with 20 employees, should be sued for
7 $100,000 because of a pay stub error?
8 SENATOR RAMOS: Through you,
9 Madam President. No, it doesn't. This does not
10 establish any new grounds for a lawsuit. The
11 language of this bill is exclusively about paying
12 out the wages to a group of workers who bring
13 about a class-action lawsuit instead of doing so
14 in an individual capacity.
15 We are not expanding or amending the
16 law on the grounds of what type of lawsuits can
17 be brought.
18 SENATOR WALCZYK: Thank you,
19 Madam President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Thank
21 you.
22 Are there any other Senators wishing
23 to be heard?
24 Senator Borrello.
25 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you.
1041
1 Thank you so much, Madam President.
2 I'm a proud member of the NFIB, the
3 National Federation of Independent Businesses,
4 representing 11,000 small businesses. So I want
5 to just bring up an important salient point here.
6 I know the discussion has been on
7 wage theft. But essentially what this is saying
8 is if this bill were to pass, plaintiff's
9 attorneys will sue countless small businesses in
10 New York State court for up to $10,000 per
11 employee over wage theft notice and pay stub
12 violations, not actual wage theft.
13 These cases are easy to allege and
14 win, making them extremely attractive for
15 plaintiff's attorneys. So once again we are
16 making it easy here for lawyers to sue small
17 businesses.
18 So I'll be voting no. Thank you.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Are
20 there any other Senators wishing to be heard?
21 Seeing and hearing none, the debate
22 is closed.
23 The Secretary will ring the bell.
24 Senator Gianaris.
25 SENATOR GIANARIS: Madam President,
1042
1 let's restore this to the noncontroversial
2 calendar, please.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: On
4 consent, the bill is restored to the
5 noncontroversial calendar.
6 Read the last section.
7 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
8 act shall take effect immediately.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
10 roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
13 Ramos to explain her vote.
14 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you,
15 Madam President.
16 You know, right now a group of
17 20 employees cannot bring about a class-action
18 lawsuit. There is a minimum of 40.
19 Now, I know that there are varying
20 definitions, perhaps even personal definitions
21 about what a small business is or isn't. But
22 very rarely does an innocent mistake in a firm or
23 a small business of very few employees constitute
24 the level of class-action wage recovery that we
25 are trying to make easier through the amending of
1043
1 this language.
2 This body back in 2009 actually had
3 already amended the law with regard to the
4 Fair Labor Standards Act. And so we have seen
5 since that, then, that the interpretation across
6 state courts has not been uniform and has not
7 allowed workers to actually get all of the wages
8 back.
9 And I believe that no matter what
10 side of the aisle you may sit on, what we do want
11 to do is utilize the law to uplift good
12 businesses, whether they're small businesses,
13 midsized businesses, the biggest businesses you
14 can think of.
15 The point is to uphold standards and
16 be able to even perhaps reward good businesses.
17 We're not -- this isn't about administrative
18 mistakes that more often than not can be
19 clarified and fixed way before a lawsuit actually
20 comes before a judge.
21 So, you know, my colleague across
22 the aisle might not be the Lorax, but perhaps
23 he's the Monopoly guy. What do I know?
24 Regardless, we want people to get
25 every single dime that they're entitled to
1044
1 because they've worked and they deserve that
2 money. And they deserve the clarification in the
3 law so that we can protect them and every worker
4 in New York.
5 There's a gross affordability issue
6 in this state, and this is one of the many ways
7 that as a body we have been able to protect
8 workers. And I'm very proud to vote aye.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
10 Ramos to be recorded in the affirmative.
11 Announce the results.
12 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
13 Calendar 353, voting in the negative are
14 Senators Borrello, Gallivan, Helming, Oberacker,
15 Ortt, Stec, Tedisco and Walczyk.
16 Ayes, 47. Nays, 8.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
18 is passed.
19 Senator Gianaris, that completes the
20 reading of today's calendar.
21 SENATOR GIANARIS: Is there any
22 further business at the desk?
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: There is
24 no further business at the desk.
25 SENATOR GIANARIS: I move that we
1045
1 adjourn until Wednesday, March 4th, at 3:00 p.m.,
2 with intervening days being legislative days.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: On
4 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until
5 Wednesday, March 4th, at 3:00 p.m., with
6 intervening days being legislative days.
7 (Whereupon, at 12:48 p.m., the
8 Senate adjourned.)
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