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Thursday, March 12, 2026

11:05 AMRegular SessionALBANY, NEW YORK
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                                                               1243

 1                NEW YORK STATE SENATE

 2                          

 3                          

 4               THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

 5                          

 6                          

 7                          

 8                          

 9                  ALBANY, NEW YORK

10                   March 12, 2026

11                     11:05 a.m.

12                          

13                          

14                   REGULAR SESSION

15  

16  

17  

18  SENATOR JEREMY COONEY, Acting President

19  ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary

20  

21  

22  

23  

24  

25  


                                                               1244

 1                P R O C E E D I N G S

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 3    Senate will come to order.  

 4                 I ask everyone to please rise and 

 5    recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

 6                 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 

 7    the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   In the 

 9    absence of clergy, let us bow our heads in a 

10    moment of silent reflection or prayer.

11                 (Whereupon, the assemblage respected 

12    a moment of silence.)

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Reading 

14    of the Journal.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   In Senate, 

16    Wednesday, March 11, 2026, the Senate met 

17    pursuant to adjournment.  The Journal of Tuesday, 

18    March 10, 2026, was read and approved.  On 

19    motion, the Senate adjourned.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Without 

21    objection, the Journal stands approved as read.

22                 Presentation of petitions.

23                 Messages from the Assembly.

24                 Messages from the Governor.

25                 Reports of standing committees.


                                                               1245

 1                 Reports of select committees.

 2                 Communications and reports from 

 3    state officers.

 4                 Motions and resolutions.

 5                 Senator Gianaris.

 6                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Good morning, 

 7    Mr. President.  

 8                 Let me begin by reminding my 

 9    colleagues that today is an important day in this 

10    chamber.  Of course I'm speaking of the fact that 

11    it's Senator Andy Lanza's birthday today.

12                 (Laughter; applause.) 

13                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Always 

14    celebrates his birthday with the passage of the 

15    one-house budget.  

16                 But not to diminish Senator Lanza's 

17    birthday, but now he has to share it with 

18    Senator Zellner, Senator Jeremy Zellner, who's 

19    new to this chamber, but also has a birthday 

20    today.

21                 (Applause.)

22                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Not Jeremy 

23    Cooney, nor Zellnor Myrie, but Jeremy Zellner.  

24    Don't be confused.  

25                 (Laughter.)


                                                               1246

 1                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Okay, motions.  

 2                 Mr. President, on behalf of 

 3    Senator Mayer, I wish to call up Senate Print 

 4    524, recalled from the Assembly, which is now at 

 5    the desk.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 7    Secretary will read.

 8                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 9    201, Senate Print 524, by Senator Mayer, an act 

10    to amend the Penal Law.

11                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to 

12    reconsider the vote by which the bill was passed.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

14    Secretary will call the roll on reconsideration.

15                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

16                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 55.  

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

18    is restored to its place on the Third Reading 

19    Calendar.

20                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   I offer the 

21    following amendments.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

23    amendments are received.

24                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   On behalf of 

25    Senator Skoufis, on page 15 I offer the following 


                                                               1247

 1    amendments to Calendar 323, Senate Print 15, and 

 2    ask that said bill retain its place on 

 3    Third Reading Calendar.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 5    amendments are received, and the bill will retain 

 6    its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

 7                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

 8    there's a privileged resolution at the desk, 

 9    Senate Resolution 1722, by Majority Leader 

10    Stewart-Cousins.  Please take that up and read 

11    its title.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

13    Secretary will read.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   Resolution 1722, by 

15    Senator Stewart-Cousins:  Resolution in response 

16    to the 2026-2027 Executive Budget submission.

17                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

18    this is the Senate's one-house budget resolution.  

19    By agreement with the Minority, debate will be 

20    limited to two hours.  It will be strictly 

21    enforced.  

22                 Our Finance chair, Senator Krueger, 

23    will lead the debate for the Majority.  

24                 And we are ready to begin.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 


                                                               1248

 1    O'Mara, why do you rise?

 2                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

 3    Mr. President.

 4                 I'm wondering if Senator Krueger 

 5    would yield for some questions on this one-house 

 6    budget proposal.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 8    Krueger, do you yield?  

 9                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I live to yield 

10    to Senator O'Mara.  Thank you.

11                 (Laughter.)

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

13    Senator yields.

14                 SENATOR O'MARA:   That's a little 

15    concerning -- 

16                 (Laughter.)

17                 SENATOR O'MARA:   -- but we'll 

18    proceed anyways.  Thank you, Senator.

19                 The one-house budget that we have 

20    before us here, it's very concerning to me in the 

21    increase in spending that we have here, 

22    considering that the Governor increased the 

23    budget from last year by a little over $7 billion 

24    for this year, and now this one-house adds and 

25    antes that up to $11.5 billion in overall 


                                                               1249

 1    spending over last year, far outpacing the rate 

 2    of inflation in the state -- or doubling the rate 

 3    of inflation, anyways.  

 4                 But the more concerning part is the 

 5    state operating funds portion of this budget.  

 6    The state operating funds are increasing over 

 7    $16 billion, and that's -- state operating funds 

 8    are the funds that we generate in the state with 

 9    our own revenue sources, not flowing from the 

10    federal government.  

11                 That's about an 11 percent increase 

12    in spending.  That is over 4.5 times the rate of 

13    inflation.  How can we justify this type of 

14    increase in spending in the state budget overall?  

15    And how is this sustainable for New Yorkers in 

16    the affordability of living in New York State?  

17                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you, 

18    Mr. President.

19                 So I'll start out by pointing out 

20    we've lost 9 billion in federal funds since the 

21    year before.  Thank you, Donald Trump.  And so of 

22    course we still have to make sure we are funding 

23    those programs.  

24                 And so we have to deal with the 

25    reality that once -- what was once federal money 


                                                               1250

 1    coming into our state, often even bypassing our 

 2    specific budget, but going into our communities, 

 3    is no longer going into our communities.  And so 

 4    they are crying out for us to help them through 

 5    the state budget.  So that's, I guess, more than 

 6    half the question just there.

 7                 Then, while there is an inflation 

 8    number, inflation often runs behind.  And what it 

 9    doesn't factor in, which we also have to 

10    confront, is that costs since a year ago seem to 

11    have gone up 20 percent, much due to these 

12    tariffs -- again, thank you, Donald Trump -- that 

13    in fact the courts have now ruled are illegal.  

14    And yet the consumers have had to pay that cost 

15    in all kinds of ways.  

16                 And even though the federal 

17    government's now been told they're supposed to 

18    give us that money back, nobody has any idea if 

19    they ever will and how they will.  We just know 

20    that the costs are skyrocketing for every 

21    consumer in New York specifically because of 

22    federal decisions.  

23                 And we don't assume that those 

24    costs are going down, even though the tariffs 

25    have to stop, because when do companies raise 


                                                               1251

 1    their prices and then reduce them later?  They 

 2    just don't.

 3                 So everyone's costs are going up.  

 4    Therefore, there are more demands on the State of 

 5    New York to come through for our citizens and our 

 6    communities.  And until this insane set of 

 7    policies stop continuing at the federal level, I 

 8    feel that this is going to continue to grow.

 9                 The most obvious new example is the 

10    war in Iran, the impacts already on the cost of 

11    oil.  I will quote a staffer who was driving up 

12    to Albany on Monday, we happened to be talking on 

13    the phone on business, and they said:  "You know, 

14    I really have to fill my car up before I get to 

15    Albany because if I wait till Thursday or Friday, 

16    it will probably have gone up another 40 cents a 

17    gallon and I can't afford that."  

18                 I won't name the staffer.  But I 

19    believe that that's exactly right.  At the rate 

20    the cost of oil is going up, thanks again to I 

21    believe very bad federal policy, we're going to 

22    just have to keep confronting new surprise cost 

23    increases.  And we, the State of New York, are 

24    going to need to address those as best we can.

25                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 


                                                               1252

 1    Senator.  And I'm glad you brought up the actions 

 2    taking place in Iran and the impacts to gas 

 3    prices, at least temporarily, with that, which I 

 4    believe in the end will be resulting in a net 

 5    positive for us in this country overall.  

 6                 But, you know, just two weeks ago -- 

 7    actually, the morning -- later in the morning 

 8    after this war in Iran broke out, we had a 

 9    revenue consensus meeting in the state.  Which, 

10    for those watching, that's the Governor releases 

11    the budget and then the Assembly, the Senate, and 

12    the Director of Budget get together and determine 

13    an estimate of how much they think the revenues, 

14    extra revenues there's going to be by the end of 

15    the fiscal year that we can build into this 

16    budget.  

17                 And that revenue consensus came in 

18    at $800 million, correct?  

19                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, above the 

20    Governor's original proposal, yes, sir.

21                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Now, this 

22    one-house increases spending by $5.6 billion, 

23    $4.8 billion -- or $3.8 billion more than what 

24    that revenue consensus is.

25                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   That's correct.


                                                               1253

 1                 SENATOR O'MARA:   So how are we 

 2    making up that difference?  

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator, 

 4    are you asking the Senator to yield?  

 5                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Yes, I am.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Okay.  

 7                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   And I'm yielding.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

 9    you.

10                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.  

11                 Yes, those numbers are correct.  

12                 Frankly, we are doing this, again, 

13    as a response to the first question.  We need to 

14    help our people more.  We need to help our 

15    municipalities more.  And so we did increase 

16    revenue in our one-house over what the Governor 

17    projected.  

18                 That was based on a number of things 

19    that I'm sure we will get into today of 

20    additional taxes or additional revenue streams 

21    beyond what the Governor put in her Executive 

22    Budget.  

23                 Not because we want to.  Because we 

24    feel a necessity to help our municipalities and 

25    our residents with crises they are now facing 


                                                               1254

 1    because of the -- primarily of federal actions.  

 2                 And so it is not unusual for either 

 3    house's one-house each year to be higher than the 

 4    Governor's original proposal.  And frankly, this 

 5    is a one-house because this is our hopes and 

 6    dreams of where we can get to by April 1st.  

 7                 People who have been here a while 

 8    know we usually don't get there, but we try, 

 9    because we want to -- we want to ensure the 

10    people of New York understand what realities 

11    we're facing and what we're trying to get done 

12    even though some of the Executive Budget will 

13    change by April 1st.  It will include some of the 

14    things we are pushing hard for here; it won't 

15    include other things.

16                 But I think the question is why are 

17    we doing something.  And the answer is because 

18    that's why we do the one-house.

19                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

20    Mr. President, if the Senator will continue to 

21    yield.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

23    sponsor yield? 

24                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 


                                                               1255

 1    sponsor yields.

 2                 SENATOR O'MARA:   So we have a 

 3    variety of tax increases in this one-house 

 4    proposal to raise an additional $5.6 billion in 

 5    spending, which is I guess your wish list as the 

 6    Senate majority here.  

 7                 Continuing, not allowing a business 

 8    tax that was going to sunset to actually sunset.  

 9    Not letting it go forward at the same rate 

10    without sunsetting it, as the Governor proposed 

11    in her budget.  Yet we're increasing the taxes on 

12    business in this state at a time when businesses 

13    are struggling.  

14                 How much does that business tax 

15    extension and increase, how much does that add to 

16    the $5.6 billion in additional taxes we're 

17    talking about here?  

18                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Sorry, I need my 

19    glasses.  The print is very small.

20                 Slightly over $2 billion.

21                 SENATOR O'MARA:   And can you tell 

22    us -- through you, Mr. President, can you tell us 

23    where, then, the additional $3 billion is being 

24    generated?  

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 


                                                               1256

 1    sponsor yield? 

 2                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.

 3                 Another large section, $1.7 billion, 

 4    comes from decoupling New York State's tax 

 5    policies from a series of changes the Trump 

 6    administration created at the federal level to 

 7    frankly reduce costs to large businesses.  

 8                 So we are saying no, that's not good 

 9    policy for New York State, we're not going to 

10    remain coupled, as we have in the past.  And that 

11    therefore, as to our revenue, because we're not 

12    deducting it a la the Trump administration's 

13    model.

14                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

15    Senator.

16                 You know, I guess -- you know, I'm 

17    at least thankful that somebody in government is 

18    being responsible about spending.  

19                 And while, you know, there may be 

20    some concerns over some actions that the 

21    Trump administration has taken, it's about 

22    responsibility in spending in government.  It's 

23    about trying to improve the economy of this 

24    country.  It's about trying to return 

25    manufacturing to this country, which is critical, 


                                                               1257

 1    which we're seeing leave New York State weekly, 

 2    from the state to other states.  

 3                 You know, we continue to spend more 

 4    and put more burdens on businesses and households 

 5    in just the cost of doing business, the cost of 

 6    utilities, the cost of taxes and every aspect of 

 7    life.  And I'm glad you recognized in your kind 

 8    of initial remarks that these -- these costs do 

 9    get passed along by business.  Because there's 

10    often a feeling in this body that the Majority 

11    thinks that we can just raise these things on 

12    businesses and they're not passed on to 

13    consumers, when they are.  

14                 Every action we take that increases 

15    the cost of doing business doesn't mean that 

16    business is just going to automatically accept 

17    less profit.  It means they're going to pass 

18    these expenses on to New Yorkers and to 

19    consumers.

20                 And that's what's been impacting the 

21    affordability, the lack of affordability of 

22    living and doing business in this state.

23                 But Senator, in addition to 

24    generating this $5.6 billion in new taxes and 

25    revenues for the state, you have some actions in 


                                                               1258

 1    here to allow New York City to increase certain 

 2    taxes.  Primarily, a 10 percent increase on 

 3    unincorporated business taxes in New York City.  

 4                 And far more concerning than that -- 

 5    that's very concerning.  Far more concerning than 

 6    that, even, is a 20 percent increase in tax on 

 7    financial services firms in New York City.  At a 

 8    time that we're seeing job growth in the 

 9    financial services industry in major areas across 

10    the country.  Texas opening a Texas Stock 

11    Exchange very soon.  These jobs moving to Texas, 

12    to Florida, to Tennessee.  Yet we're going to 

13    increase taxes on those firms by 20 percent.  

14                 And while at the budget hearing with 

15    Mayor Mamdani, who is asking for these increases, 

16    you know, they showed a distinct lack of concern 

17    with financial service firms leaving New York 

18    State.  And as they leave and those jobs go, that 

19    source of revenue for us and the city decreases.

20                 What is your level of concern with 

21    the financial services industries departing from 

22    New York State?  It makes up about 30 percent of 

23    our revenues at the state, not to mention what 

24    the city is generating for theirs off of it.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Did the 


                                                               1259

 1    sponsor yield to that question?  

 2                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I will.  Although 

 3    he asked a whole series of questions, so I'm 

 4    going to go back to the first set of questions, 

 5    which were not about the city tax changes but 

 6    overall tax proposals within this.  

 7                 I want to point out that we tried to 

 8    be very careful in the taxes we decoupled from at 

 9    the federal level and even some taxes that do 

10    have an increase for some companies at the state 

11    level.  These are for large corporations.  A few 

12    medium.  

13                 But we recognize the unfairness of 

14    the New York State tax system because, guess 

15    what, every time we do lower taxes for the 

16    highest-income companies who are doing, frankly, 

17    incredibly well, somebody else has to pay the 

18    taxes, and it usually is the small companies.  

19    And it usually is startups who are trying to move 

20    from small or even one employee to a larger 

21    company.

22                 So we were very conscious about 

23    trying to make sure that unlike the Trump 

24    policies and taxes, we were not going to transfer 

25    costs to our small businesses.  We were going to 


                                                               1260

 1    try to make sure we were making our tax system 

 2    both progressive and fair -- and again, very 

 3    importantly, stopping the leakage of all tax 

 4    costs translating to small businesses who are 

 5    trying to stay in New York and grow in New York.

 6                 And in fact, I would argue I wish we 

 7    had gone much farther, and we did a little of it, 

 8    in challenging the kind of tax expenditures that 

 9    we have in our system.  So if you look at our 

10    state tax expenditure report, you will actually 

11    be able to find pretty easily billions of dollars 

12    that our largest corporations are not paying in 

13    taxes in New York because they have all kinds of 

14    special exemptions and credits and subsidies.  I 

15    think we might be the state with the largest in 

16    the country at this point, to the largest 

17    corporations.

18                 Amazon, for example.  And trust me, 

19    they're going to sell to us no matter what we 

20    actually make them pay fairly in their own taxes.  

21    They're not leaving New York.

22                 And many of the companies even that 

23    the -- my colleague pointed out they could leave 

24    New York, they still want to do business in 

25    New York.  They're still going to sell to us in 


                                                               1261

 1    New York.  And so a lot of these taxes it 

 2    actually doesn't matter physically where their 

 3    locations are, they still owe us the taxes.  

 4                 So sometimes I get told:  They'll 

 5    leave.  And you look at what the taxes are, and 

 6    you go, Well, guess what, you're still going to 

 7    have to pay those taxes.  But okay, if you want 

 8    to double your costs by having to move everyone 

 9    and build new warehouses somewhere, that's your 

10    business.  But you're still going to sell the 

11    products across the lines in New York, and we're 

12    still going to tax you then.

13                 So when you look at the big picture, 

14    our tax policies can be so much fairer and more 

15    progressive.  And it absolutely helps our smaller 

16    businesses, our starting-up entrepreneurs in 

17    New York.  Because again, when somebody over here 

18    isn't paying their fair share of taxes, somebody 

19    else is, usually the small guys and the 

20    individuals.  So I want to do something about 

21    that.  I want to do more about that.

22                 Now to shift to the New York City 

23    question, thank you.

24                 So yes, the City of New York came to 

25    us and said help, we need help.  And they put 


                                                               1262

 1    together a very long laundry list of 

 2    possibilities.  We said no to quite a few of the 

 3    proposals because we thought those were not the 

 4    best answers for New York City.

 5                 New York City would have preferred 

 6    we just agree to hand them the money.  We do hand 

 7    them some money in this budget, right, because we 

 8    owed them this money.  We never gave them AIM 

 9    since -- 2011?  We stopped giving New York City 

10    its 900 million in AIM in 2011 for a 

11    financial-problem period.  We promised to give it 

12    back.  We never gave it back.  

13                 We cut our reimbursement on the 

14    administration of public benefits and social 

15    services.  We promised to give it back.  We never 

16    gave it back.  We passed federal -- state laws at 

17    the state level to change the rules in child 

18    welfare programs and criminal justice programs 

19    for young people and said, This will be great.  

20                 And then we told New York City, even 

21    though you're going to end up taking the vast 

22    majority of these kids and the responsibility for 

23    making sure this model works well, we invented --  

24    well, Governor Cuomo invented a way to claim 

25    New York City wasn't eligible to even file for 


                                                               1263

 1    it.  So we've owed them a huge amount of money.  

 2                 And by the way, New York City's 

 3    taxpayers send so much money here that they never 

 4    get back.  We tried to close that gap in a 

 5    variety of ways.  And I think that's absolutely 

 6    fair and way overdue.  

 7                 So we said no to the city on many 

 8    things.  We tried to close gaps that never should 

 9    have been there.  But yes, we did give them 

10    permission to tax themselves and their 

11    businesses.  And frankly, I think that they will 

12    think carefully about what they implement and 

13    don't implement.  But if we don't give them the 

14    authority to do so, they can't.  Because let's 

15    not forget, the only tax our municipalities 

16    basically can control themselves is their 

17    property taxes.  

18                 And there are a few people who 

19    suggested raising New York City's property taxes 

20    by 9.5 percent.  And I don't know about everybody 

21    else, but if you live in New York City you really 

22    can't imagine a 9.5 percent increase in our 

23    property taxes.  So will companies -- again, 

24    they're only large companies that are impacted, 

25    of 5 million or more, I believe.  Do I really 


                                                               1264

 1    think they're going to pick up and leave New York 

 2    City?  Some might.  

 3                 But the research shows that large 

 4    corporations -- and we're talking large 

 5    corporations -- don't make their business 

 6    decisions or their location decisions based on 

 7    local marginal tax rates.

 8                 So maybe my colleague's right, this 

 9    will be a problem.  But so far I'm not convinced.  

10    And I actually have not been hearing a lot from 

11    corporations that this is a problem for them.  

12    Just saying.  

13                 Thank you.

14                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

15    Mr. President, if the Senator will yield.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

17    sponsor continue to yield? 

18                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

19                 SENATOR O'MARA:   The authority that 

20    we're giving in this one-house budget to allow 

21    New York City to raise unincorporated business 

22    taxes and the taxes on financial services, what 

23    is the total expected revenue to be generated 

24    from those actions if the city pursues them to 

25    the 10 percent, 20 percent increase that you want 


                                                               1265

 1    to authorize them to do?

 2                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   So the tax 

 3    increases that we're giving the city permission 

 4    to do total 3.1 billion.  

 5                 I don't have a breakdown between 

 6    those three taxes, which is which.  So we can get 

 7    you the breakdown of what that 3.1 translates to, 

 8    but I don't think we have that today.  

 9                 Is that right?  

10                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

11    Mr. President.  If we could get to that, where 

12    you think -- actually, where we end up in the 

13    final budget bills by the time we get to debate 

14    those, that would be good to have that --

15                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Absolutely.

16                 SENATOR O'MARA:   -- type of overall 

17    impact -- 

18                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yup.

19                 SENATOR O'MARA:   -- to that.  

20                 Now, another -- through you, 

21    Mr. President, if the Senator will yield.  

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

23    sponsor continue to yield? 

24                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm sorry, I'm 

25    getting an answer to the previous question as we 


                                                               1266

 1    speak, so ...

 2                 The corporations tax would draw in 

 3    1.5 billion.  It's 250 million on the 

 4    unincorporated tax change.  And -- those are the 

 5    two, two answers to the question.

 6                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Well, there's a 

 7    third one I'm about to get to.

 8                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Okay, fine.

 9                 SENATOR O'MARA:   So through you, 

10    Mr. President.  And I'm not sure if that's the 

11    one you're thinking about or not.

12                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Okay.

13                 SENATOR O'MARA:   But there is a -- 

14    through you, Mr. President, if the Senator will 

15    yield.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Does the 

17    sponsor continue to yield?  

18                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

20    sponsor yields.

21                 SENATOR O'MARA:   There's another 

22    tax increase in here on the transaction of the 

23    commodity of gold bullion in this state, which 

24    New York State has a large storage of the gold in 

25    this country but certainly not all of it.  And 


                                                               1267

 1    gold is transportable.  You're authorizing the 

 2    implementation of a sales tax on that commodity.  

 3                 I don't believe there's any sales 

 4    taxes on the sales of any other commodities.  How 

 5    much is that sales tax supposed to increase on 

 6    the trading of gold in New York State?

 7                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I believe I 

 8    remember the number is 600 million on -- oh, 

 9    you've changed, hello.  Sorry, I didn't notice I 

10    lost -- I traded staff.

11                 So it's 600 million from the state 

12    tax that we would then collect.  And I believe -- 

13    because we also allow the city to do this, 

14    because I think I'm still answering the city 

15    question, I believe it allows the city to also 

16    apply the same sales tax, which I think is 

17    $300 million for them.  

18                 And yes, people are describing gold 

19    bars as a commodity.  But it's also metal.  So if 

20    I go out and buy gold jewelry -- and I love gold 

21    jewelry, to be honest, I buy gold jewelry -- I 

22    pay sales tax on it.  And if I buy a gold bar, I 

23    don't pay that tax.  

24                 And so it's just a perfect example, 

25    for me, of our decisions to prioritize some 


                                                               1268

 1    people having to pay taxes and some people not 

 2    having to pay taxes.  Because I remember when I 

 3    came to Albany 25 years ago, I think the gold 

 4    tax -- the lack of gold tax was costing the state 

 5    about a hundred million dollars in tax.  And now 

 6    we're up to 800 million.

 7                 And the problem, again, who's buying 

 8    gold bars?  Anyone here?  Just curious.  Anybody 

 9    have gold bars?  The New Jersey senator did --   

10                 SENATOR O'MARA:   You can buy a 

11    small fortune in them in your jewelry.

12                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   No, I pay the tax 

13    when I buy my jewelry.  Unless I'm buying a gold 

14    bar to melt it down to make my own jewelry.  

15    Which, trust me, I'm not.  

16                 So I don't even understand why we 

17    don't understand this kind of tax expenditure for 

18    certain companies and for certain individuals is 

19    justified because the rest of us are paying taxes 

20    even on the same product.  

21                 And you know what?  Gold bullion 

22    companies, they don't actually create jobs.  I 

23    think there are three companies.  And somebody's 

24    pushing the gold bullion in and out of the bottom 

25    floor of several banks on Wall Street.  But 


                                                               1269

 1    pretty much those are the only jobs.  

 2                 So it's not like even if they leave 

 3    and go to a state that won't tax them, that we 

 4    lose jobs.  So please don't misunderstand.  

 5                 New Yorkers who want to buy gold 

 6    bullion are still going to buy gold bullion, 

 7    don't kid yourself.  But the companies say 

 8    they'll leave, and I'm like, Okay, we'll have 

 9    some less crowded space in the basements of a few 

10    banks on Wall Street.  And we really won't lose 

11    jobs.  And we'll actually get more tax revenue 

12    that is needed for everybody who's probably not 

13    buying gold bullion anyway.

14                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

15    Mr. President, if the Senator would continue to 

16    yield.

17                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, absolutely.  

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

19    sponsor continue to yield? 

20                 The sponsor yields.

21                 SENATOR O'MARA:   I'm really amazed 

22    at your lack of concern of jobs leaving this 

23    state, whether it's in the gold bullion, whether 

24    it's financial services jobs.

25                 My priority in the state, that 


                                                               1270

 1    people live in New York and people have jobs to 

 2    work at in New York.  Not that we just collect 

 3    tax revenues from out-of-state businesses doing 

 4    business in New York State.  We want to provide 

 5    jobs for New Yorkers.

 6                 And on the gold sales, that's not 

 7    the typical transaction where somebody goes in 

 8    and buys a gold bar to take home and put on my 

 9    mantel to show that I'm rich or whatever.  It's 

10    not that kind of a retail transaction.  

11                 They're generally, on paper, trades 

12    of the commodity very similar to stock 

13    transactions.

14                 So it's just -- it's going to drive 

15    this business out.  It's a -- really a minor 

16    factor in the whole thing here, but it's just one 

17    more example of the lack of concern with business 

18    leaving this state and taking those jobs with 

19    them.  

20                 Moving on, Senator, if you'll 

21    continue to yield -- Mr. President.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

23    sponsor -- 

24                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 


                                                               1271

 1    sponsor continues to yield.

 2                 SENATOR O'MARA:   In addition to the 

 3    increase in taxes that we're allowing to New York 

 4    City, we have a significant amount of direct aid 

 5    that you referenced a bit earlier in the AIM 

 6    discussion that you mentioned.

 7                 The Governor, in her budget, had 

 8    proposed I believe a $1.5 billion assistance to 

 9    New York City for the situation, the financial 

10    situation that they're in now.  And in addition 

11    to that, now, this one-house budget, by my read, 

12    the Senate Majority is adding another 

13    $693 million for temporary assistance to the 

14    city, both through TANF and for adult shelters, 

15    on top of that 1.5 billion.  

16                 For the additional adult shelters 

17    and Temporary Assistance for Needy Families to 

18    New York City, how much is this one-house budget 

19    increasing that for other areas of the state?

20                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Okay.  So the 

21    adult shelter money is 500 million.  And the 

22    Temporary Assistance to Needy Families, 

23    193 million.  And then there's also 263 million 

24    for certain foster-care costs.

25                 Several of these were cut from the 


                                                               1272

 1    City of New York during the Cuomo administration, 

 2    and so we see this as a replacement for money 

 3    that was taken and never should have been taken.

 4                 I don't know that this was cut from 

 5    other localities.  So this was not money taken 

 6    away from other municipalities, it was just a -- 

 7    oddly, a Democratic governor and a Democratic 

 8    mayor not liking each other, and the Democratic 

 9    governor deciding that he was going to punish a 

10    Democratic mayor in the biggest city in the state 

11    by cutting funds that he could get away with 

12    cutting.

13                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

14    Mr. President, if the Senator will continue to 

15    yield.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

17    sponsor yield? 

18                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

20    sponsor yields.

21                 SENATOR O'MARA:   So relative to 

22    this additional 2.5 billion -- roughly now, I 

23    guess, with the other stuff that you added in 

24    there -- going to New York City from our revenues 

25    in the state, my understanding is that the 


                                                               1273

 1    Governor, when she put forth the 1.5 billion for 

 2    New York City for temporary assistance, that she 

 3    offered up a hundred million dollars in temporary 

 4    assistance for the rest of the state.

 5                 Have you increased that other 

 6    assistance in addition to the $100 million that 

 7    the Governor put in?

 8                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   My one demand was 

 9    that they number the pages this year for me.  

10    It's helpful.

11                 SENATOR O'MARA:   It's helpful.

12                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   It is helpful.  

13                 Through you, Mr. President.  My 

14    colleague is correct about what the Governor did.  

15    And actually, happily, as I review ours, we also 

16    increased financial assistance to Rochester and 

17    Yonkers by 40 million each, Syracuse by 

18    30 million, and Albany by 15 million, all above 

19    and beyond what the Governor proposed.

20                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Well, thank you, 

21    Senator.  I've been informed that I'm out of town 

22    {sic}, but I'm just going to wrap up here -- of 

23    time.  Did I say out of town?  

24                 (Laughter.)

25                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Yes.  Maybe both.


                                                               1274

 1                 But thank you for your answers.  And 

 2    this one-house bill is fantasy, but it's a very 

 3    scary and concerning fantasy for the future of 

 4    the State of New York.  

 5                 I'm glad there's been some 

 6    recognition finally from the Senator on the other 

 7    side of the aisle that, yes, these increases may 

 8    very well cause companies to move out of the 

 9    state and take the jobs with them.  That is a 

10    huge concern to us.  

11                 The massive increases in aid to 

12    New York City, in addition to them -- allowing 

13    them to increase their taxes that they're going 

14    to raise, is just patently unfair to the rest of 

15    the state.  Well, maybe a couple of the upstate 

16    Thruway cities are getting a little more money in 

17    the end, but the rest of the state is not.  And 

18    they have needs just as well.

19                 You're worried about the mayor 

20    threatening a 10 percent property tax increase to 

21    New York City, and I certainly don't want to see 

22    that.  But I have municipalities in my district 

23    that are facing those same types of increases in 

24    property taxes to New Yorkers in my district and 

25    across the rest of the state.  And they're not 


                                                               1275

 1    getting equal treatment.

 2                 And my constituents and constituents 

 3    everywhere in New York State are struggling under 

 4    the unaffordability of living in this state.  

 5    This budget that the Governor has proposed, and 

 6    is then exacerbated by this one-house proposal, 

 7    just makes New York State all that much more 

 8    expensive and less affordable for New Yorkers to 

 9    live.  

10                 We need businesses here to provide 

11    jobs for people that live here, because we're 

12    sick and tired of people leaving this state to 

13    find the opportunity elsewhere because we've 

14    taxed and spent our way into an unaffordability 

15    crisis in this state.

16                 Thank you, Mr. President.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

18    you, Senator O'Mara.

19                 Senator Gallivan, why do you rise?

20                 SENATOR GALLIVAN:   I would like to 

21    ask a few questions, Mr. President, on the 

22    Medicaid area of the budget.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

24    you, Senator Gallivan.

25                 SENATOR GALLIVAN:   And I also must 


                                                               1276

 1    say that I'm very interested to hear of 

 2    Senator Krueger's hopes and dreams to have 

 3    adopted a budget by April 1st.  I share that.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   I believe 

 5    Senator Rivera will be -- 

 6                 SENATOR GALLIVAN:   Will 

 7    Senator Rivera yield for a few questions?  

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 9    Rivera, do you yield?  

10                 SENATOR RIVERA:   Yes, 

11    Mr. President.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

13    sponsor yields.

14                 SENATOR GALLIVAN:   So when we look 

15    at Medicaid spending, we spend an awful lot.  

16    It's the biggest area of the budget.  For fiscal 

17    year '27, spending is projected to be over -- 

18    approximately $120 billion.  The state share has 

19    tripled in the last 15 years.  It's increased 

20    nearly 60 percent in the last five years.  And 

21    this Senate one-house proposed budget increases 

22    the state share by 11.4 percent year over year.

23                 So the Senate one-house proposal 

24    increases Medicaid spending.  It eliminates the 

25    Medicaid cap and removes several Executive 


                                                               1277

 1    deficit reduction measures.  My question is, how 

 2    can you reconcile this approach with 

 3    affordability and fiscal sustainability?

 4                 SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

 5    Mr. President.  First of all, I would remind us 

 6    that what -- when we're talking about Medicaid, 

 7    we're talking about a program that is a 

 8    safety net for so many working-class and poor 

 9    New Yorkers all across the state.  And when we're 

10    talking about affordability, the cost of 

11    healthcare is one of the main drivers of 

12    unaffordability for basically -- it's something 

13    that could be said certainly for the entire 

14    country, and certainly for the State of New York.

15                 But furthermore, Mr. President, I'd 

16    like to remind us that the federal government is 

17    taking some immensely negative actions against 

18    the State of New York that seem punitive in my 

19    view, Mr. President, that ultimately impact 

20    programs like this.  

21                 This is not something that is just 

22    given away to just anybody.  We're talking about, 

23    Mr. President, folks who need medical coverage.

24                 And so yes, indeed -- through you, 

25    Mr. President -- there are increases that we are 


                                                               1278

 1    proposing in this one-house budget.  But let us 

 2    not forget that regardless of what we are 

 3    proposing as far as an increase, in no way does 

 4    it make up for the immense impacts that will be 

 5    felt by the federal government's actions against 

 6    the most vulnerable in our state.  And certainly 

 7    that includes those folks who are Medicaid 

 8    recipients.

 9                 SENATOR GALLIVAN:   Would the 

10    Senator continue to yield?  

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

12    sponsor continue to yield? 

13                 SENATOR RIVERA:   I will.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

15    sponsor yields.

16                 SENATOR GALLIVAN:   So the Executive 

17    proposal increased year-over-year state spending 

18    approximately 10 percent.  And when she did this, 

19    she also alluded to the federal government and 

20    indicated that she backfilled the federal 

21    government cuts.  

22                 The Senate one-house, however, not 

23    only -- not only continues what the -- includes 

24    what the Governor had put in, it includes an 

25    additional $630 million in spending in Medicaid.  


                                                               1279

 1                 Where's the $630 million going?

 2                 SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

 3    Mr. President.  If the -- if he could repeat the 

 4    last part of your question.  Where is it going 

 5    to, or where is it coming from?  

 6                 SENATOR GALLIVAN:   No.  The 

 7    Executive Budget -- according to the Executive 

 8    when she presented it -- backfilled what she says 

 9    were the federal cuts.  The Senate one-house 

10    includes an additional $630 million.  

11                 The question is, where is that 

12    additional 630 million being spent?  

13                 SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

14    Mr. President.  The biggest chunk of that would 

15    be for financially distressed hospitals.  Which I 

16    will remind you, Mr. President, is not just 

17    something that impacts safety net institutions in 

18    the cities or in urban spaces, but certainly in 

19    urban districts and suburban districts, in rural 

20    districts all across our state.  There are many 

21    safety-net institutions that are not just for 

22    this year but over many years of disinvestment, 

23    falling on hard times.  

24                 And so the extra money that we're 

25    proposing in this particular budget, number one, 


                                                               1280

 1    is certainly -- in this the biggest chunk is for 

 2    distressed hospitals.  But again, I'll remind 

 3    everyone that we are not making -- we're making a 

 4    dent, certainly.  But the amount that -- the way 

 5    that I put it is the cuts that we already 

 6    suffered, Mr. President, from the federal 

 7    government are like a bat to the side of the 

 8    head.  But come January next year, there comes 

 9    the ax for the other side of the head.  

10                 And so we're trying to do our best 

11    with the resources that we have to -- you say -- 

12    my colleague says backfill; I say try to avert 

13    the worst outcomes for the most vulnerable around 

14    the state.

15                 SENATOR GALLIVAN:   Through you, 

16    Mr. President, would the Senator continue to 

17    yield?  

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Does the 

19    sponsor yield?

20                 SENATOR RIVERA:   I do.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

22    sponsor yields.  

23                 SENATOR GALLIVAN:   Does the Senate 

24    one-house include any of its own cost-saving 

25    measures?  In the area of Medicaid, of course.


                                                               1281

 1                 SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

 2    Mr. President -- (glass falling).  Goddamn, I 

 3    keep doing that to the damn bottle.  Let me just 

 4    put it over here.  There.

 5                 Through you, Mr. President.  There 

 6    is language in the bill that refers generally to 

 7    working alongside with our Assembly colleagues as 

 8    well as the Executive on finding efficiencies.  

 9    There's no specific outlined savings proposal 

10    per se.

11                 SENATOR GALLIVAN:   Through you, 

12    Mr. President, would the Senator continue to 

13    yield?  

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

15    sponsor yield? 

16                 SENATOR RIVERA:   Without flipping 

17    the bottle over, yes, I will, Mr. President.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

19    sponsor yields.  Quietly.

20                 SENATOR GALLIVAN:   We've seen 

21    recently a number of investigations and audits 

22    that have identified, you know, significant 

23    amounts of fraud and improper payments across our 

24    system, the Medicaid system.  Among them, 

25    $2.6 billion in Medicaid payments potentially 


                                                               1282

 1    made to individuals who do not live in New York 

 2    State; 196 million in improper payments under the 

 3    non-emergency medical transportation program; 

 4    $68 million involving daycare operators in 

 5    Brooklyn; 3.5 million, fraudulent claims in 

 6    Orange County, among others.

 7                 Does the Senate one-house budget do 

 8    anything -- given this documented fraud and 

 9    improper payments, does it do anything to 

10    specifically focus on strengthening program 

11    integrity and fraud prevention?

12                 (Pause.)

13                 SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

14    Mr. President.  There are a few ways in which the 

15    State of New York can and indeed does find people 

16    who are abusing the system, both the Office of 

17    Medicaid Inspector General, OMIG, as well as a 

18    part of the Attorney General's office that 

19    investigates these types of crimes.  

20                 And I'll remind my colleague that it 

21    is precisely the fact that we have investigated 

22    and found people who are abusing the system, that 

23    any of the things that he is referring to have 

24    been found.

25                 So certainly none of us on this side 


                                                               1283

 1    of the aisle will ever defend those folks who are 

 2    abusing the system, particularly one that, as I 

 3    said before, not only serves the most vulnerable 

 4    but also is on the brink of collapse because of 

 5    the federal attacks to it.

 6                 So I am all for identifying folks 

 7    who are being fraudulent, who are abusing the 

 8    system, and certainly would, as they say, want 

 9    the book thrown at them.

10                 And we have entities in the State of 

11    New York that do that sort of work.  I thank them 

12    for it.  And we certainly would do whatever we 

13    can to augment their ability to continue to do 

14    that.

15                 SENATOR GALLIVAN:   Through you, 

16    Mr. President, would the Senator continue to 

17    yield?  

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Does the 

19    sponsor yield?

20                 SENATOR RIVERA:   I will.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

22    sponsor yields.  

23                 SENATOR GALLIVAN:   So the Senator 

24    referred to these people being caught.  It's good 

25    that they're caught through existing measures.  


                                                               1284

 1    But my question has to do with are -- does the 

 2    Senate one-house provide for any additional fraud 

 3    prevention measures in it?  

 4                 SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

 5    Mr. President.  The budget itself doesn't have 

 6    anything specific related to this.  

 7                 But I certainly believe that if 

 8    there are entities, either at the state level or 

 9    at the federal level, that are looking to 

10    identify illegal and inappropriate actions, and 

11    they're asking for information to be able to 

12    determine that, that we should provide it to 

13    them.

14                 SENATOR GALLIVAN:   Thank you, 

15    Senator Rivera.  Thank you, Mr. President.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

17    you, Senator Gallivan.  

18                 Senator Helming, why do you rise?

19                 SENATOR HELMING:   Thank you, 

20    Mr. President.  If the sponsor would yield to a 

21    few questions regarding auto insurance.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   I believe 

23    Senator Bailey will be responding.  

24                 Senator Bailey, do you yield?

25                 SENATOR BAILEY:   Delightfully so.


                                                               1285

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 2    Bailey yields.

 3                 SENATOR HELMING:   Thank you.  

 4    Through you, Mr. President, if Senator Bailey 

 5    will yield to a question regarding Part F.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   He 

 7    yields.

 8                 SENATOR BAILEY:   Certainly, 

 9    Senator Helming.

10                 SENATOR HELMING:   Senator Bailey, 

11    in the Executive proposal was -- the executive 

12    proposal included reforming the definition of 

13    "criminal fraudulent act" and increasing 

14    penalties for crimes involving insurance fraud.  

15                 Does the Senate one-house support 

16    those initiatives?

17                 SENATOR BAILEY:   Through you, 

18    Mr. President.  The Senate Majority was very 

19    clear in our resolution language that we support 

20    making sure that we have a more affordable 

21    New York, and by all measures in the Governor's 

22    budget that we applaud the Governor for taking 

23    the steps that she had.  But we have -- 

24    reasonable minds can differ, and we differ in the 

25    way that the language was.  The Senate Majority 


                                                               1286

 1    certainly looks forward to resolving this at the 

 2    end of this budget process and making sure that 

 3    concepts that have been placed in the original 

 4    Executive Budget, that they are resolved in favor 

 5    of all New Yorkers.  

 6                 SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

 7    Mr. President, if the sponsor will continue to 

 8    yield.  

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

10    sponsor yield?

11                 SENATOR BAILEY:   Yes, I do.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

13    sponsor yields.

14                 SENATOR HELMING:   Senator Bailey, 

15    what alternatives have you proposed to address 

16    auto insurance fraud and to hold bad actors 

17    accountable in this one-house budget?  

18                 SENATOR BAILEY:   Through you, 

19    Mr. President.  Once again, that the conversation 

20    is something that this Majority has been very 

21    clear about.  We've been contemplative through 

22    roundtables, through hearings, through 

23    discussions with individual stakeholders, with 

24    group stakeholders, associations, trade groups.  

25    Anybody that is willing to listen, we've had the 


                                                               1287

 1    conversation.

 2                 In the language that was presented 

 3    by the Executive, well-intended language, the 

 4    Senate Majority, again in our resolution 

 5    language, has clearly indicated that we look 

 6    forward to having an ongoing conversation about 

 7    resolving the issues that you, Senator Helming, 

 8    have mentioned, and many of our colleagues have 

 9    mentioned, because they come to us from our 

10    constituents.  

11                 Our constituents, our family group 

12    chats -- all of our conversations are related to 

13    the high cost of insurance and affordability and 

14    fraud.  And our resolution language was 

15    crystal-clear that we intend to engage in ongoing 

16    and further discussion related to that.

17                 SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

18    Mr. President, if the Senator will continue to 

19    yield.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

21    sponsor yield?

22                 SENATOR BAILEY:   I do.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

24    sponsor yields.

25                 SENATOR HELMING:   Senator, in 


                                                               1288

 1    Part F or Part G can you point to the language 

 2    that says that the Senate Majority intends to 

 3    address this?

 4                 SENATOR BAILEY:   Through you, 

 5    Mr. President.  The Senate's resolution 

 6    language -- that was not necessarily in that 

 7    part -- was very clear.  And out of respect for 

 8    the two-hour debate limit, I'm not going to 

 9    repeat everything that I said.  

10                 But we are laser-focused -- I'll use 

11    another phrase -- to making sure that 

12    affordability is something that we conquer in 

13    this budget.  But I think it was -- our 

14    resolution language was very clear.

15                 SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

16    Mr. President, if the Senator will continue to 

17    yield.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

19    sponsor yield?

20                 SENATOR BAILEY:   I do.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

22    sponsor yields.  

23                 SENATOR HELMING:   Senator Bailey, 

24    why did the Majority reject the Executive 

25    proposal reconfiguring the New York Motor Vehicle 


                                                               1289

 1    Theft and Insurance Fraud Prevention Board?  

 2                 SENATOR BAILEY:   Through you, 

 3    Mr. President.  For the same reasons in the prior 

 4    iteration of the questions.  When you have 

 5    something that is as complicated and as complex 

 6    as the issue of affordability as it relates to 

 7    auto insurance, pointing out one particular thing 

 8    or pulling one string simply does that.  

 9                 This does not do that.  There is no 

10    magic bullet to affordability.  There is no one 

11    concept or one theory or one thought that will 

12    lead to affordability.  

13                 We're excited and willing to have 

14    conversations about fraud, incidents of fraud, 

15    data around fraud.  We do not accept fraud.  We 

16    do not want fraud to happen.  And that is one 

17    thing I can certainly state:  We are anti-fraud.  

18    We do not want to have anybody doing fraud in our 

19    state.  

20                 But the manner in which we should go 

21    about investigating it, looking at it, examining 

22    it, is something that we should have further 

23    discussion about as we conclude this year's 

24    budget.

25                 SENATOR HELMING:   Thank you.  


                                                               1290

 1    Through you, Mr. President, if the sponsor will 

 2    continue to yield.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 4    sponsor yield?

 5                 SENATOR BAILEY:   Certainly.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 7    sponsor yields.

 8                 SENATOR HELMING:   Senator Bailey, 

 9    are you happy with the way that the New York 

10    Motor Vehicle Theft and Insurance Fraud 

11    Prevention Board is operating currently?  

12                 SENATOR BAILEY:   Mr. President, 

13    "happy" is a relative term.  "Happyish" is what 

14    Leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins often says when we 

15    speak about these conversations.  

16                 In all seriousness, my personal 

17    happiness is not what is of worth, is of measure 

18    in this Executive Budget.  What matters in this 

19    Executive Budget is figuring out how can we deal 

20    with affordability.  

21                 And should we figure out a better 

22    way to deal with fraud and deal with crime as 

23    related to auto insurance?  I'm certainly happy 

24    to have that conversation.  Again, it is an 

25    ongoing conversation.  And respectfully, my 


                                                               1291

 1    personal happiness has nothing to do with the 

 2    manner in which we mete out solutions and 

 3    measures in this Executive Budget.

 4                 SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

 5    Mr. President, quickly on the bill.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 7    Helming on the bill.  

 8                 SENATOR HELMING:   So maybe "happy" 

 9    wasn't the right term.  

10                 However, all you have to do is look 

11    at the New York State Comptroller audit of that 

12    board, the prevention board.  They looked at a 

13    four-year period and saw that the board is 

14    basically dysfunctional.  They don't have a 

15    quorum present, they can't take action.  

16                 The money that our ratepayers are 

17    putting into the fund to help control, deter, 

18    reduce fraud and reduce insurance rates, a large 

19    portion of that every single year gets swept from 

20    the Fraud Prevention Fund and goes into the 

21    general budget.  So I think it's something that 

22    definitely needs to be addressed.

23                 But through you, Mr. President, if 

24    the sponsor will continue to yield.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 


                                                               1292

 1    sponsor yield?

 2                 SENATOR BAILEY:   Certainly.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 4    sponsor yields.

 5                 SENATOR HELMING:   Senator Bailey, 

 6    in Part FF it appears that the Senate 

 7    intentionally omits the Executive proposal to 

 8    extend the time frame insurers have to report 

 9    suspected fraud from 30 days to 60 days.  

10                 Why wouldn't the Majority want to 

11    make sure that any suspected fraud -- that 

12    there's time to investigate it and to resolve?

13                 SENATOR BAILEY:   Through you, 

14    Mr. President.  For the same reasons I've 

15    articulated before.  It -- on paper, it may seem 

16    reasonable to you -- and I don't even know what 

17    the -- what your position is, or your 

18    conference's position is.  But let's say that for 

19    a second you did accept the Governor's language.  

20                 What is responsible legislating, 

21    what responsible legislators do is we take 

22    language, we review them and we have 

23    conversations.  This is not to say that you're 

24    not a responsible legislator, Senator Helming.  I 

25    certainly know that you are.  And we've had 


                                                               1293

 1    responsible conversations.  

 2                 But it is up to us to be responsible 

 3    and thoughtful and diligent.  And when we see a 

 4    well-intended, well-thought-out, reasonable 

 5    argument, it's our job to continue the 

 6    conversation about how exactly the end result 

 7    comes.

 8                 SENATOR HELMING:   Through you, 

 9    Mr. President, on the resolution.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

11    Helming on the resolution.

12                 SENATOR HELMING:   So I just want to 

13    point out that I appreciate Senator Bailey saying 

14    that the Majority is going to work on the issue 

15    of reducing, preventing insurance fraud so that 

16    we can reduce rates to taxpayers -- or to 

17    ratepayers.  

18                 But I'd like to point out that the 

19    language that the Majority has included in the 

20    budget proposal is extremely weak.  It doesn't 

21    make a firm commitment.  It basically says "hopes 

22    to continue working on this issue with its 

23    partners in the Executive and Assembly."

24                 And that's on everything.  That's to 

25    hold bad actors accountable, to reduce fraud.  


                                                               1294

 1                 But I'd like to go on the record.  

 2    As the ranking member of the Senate Insurance 

 3    Committee, I'm deeply concerned.  The Senate 

 4    one-house budget proposal intentionally omits 

 5    every single -- just about every single proposal 

 6    that would help reduce auto insurance fraud.  

 7                 This is a real missed opportunity to 

 8    deliver reform and savings for New York drivers.  

 9    We talk about affordability all the time.  This 

10    was an opportunity to take proactive measures to 

11    actually put savings back in people's pockets.  

12    Motor vehicle fraud and staged accident schemes 

13    are not victimless crimes.  Every fraudulent 

14    claim drives up premiums and forces honest 

15    New Yorkers to pay the price.  

16                 Staged crashes alone add about $300 

17    a year to individuals' car insurance costs.  In 

18    2023 our state ranked second in the nation for 

19    staged auto crashes, with more than 38,000 

20    suspected fraud cases being reported to the 

21    New York State Department of Financial Services.  

22                 As a result of all of this, New York 

23    drivers pay some of the highest auto insurance 

24    premiums in the country.  I did some research and 

25    found that for many New Yorkers, auto insurance 


                                                               1295

 1    now costs more than $4,000 a year.  And for 

 2    people who live in the New York City area, it is 

 3    much, much higher than that.

 4                 I heard a comment earlier that when 

 5    companies raise their prices, the costs don't 

 6    come down.  Well, guess what?  It's different 

 7    with the auto insurance industry.  And we have 

 8    opportunities to bring those costs down.  

 9                 During the budget hearings, the 

10    Department of Financial Services confirmed that 

11    enacting reforms will significantly reduce auto 

12    insurance premiums.  In total, the reforms that 

13    were omitted from this budget proposal by the 

14    Majority were projected to reduce rates by about 

15    12 percent.  That's real savings that families, 

16    seniors, businesses, the municipalities we heard 

17    that we should be watching over, the school 

18    districts -- those are real savings that we're 

19    walking away from.

20                 The Senate Majority rejected every 

21    proposal to reduce auto insurance fraud and lower 

22    premiums.  In place of real reforms, they offered 

23    only their hope to continue working on the issue.  

24                 You know what?  Hope doesn't pay 

25    anyone's bills.  We need action to reduce 


                                                               1296

 1    insurance costs.  

 2                 And for these reasons and so many 

 3    more, I ask my colleagues on both sides of the 

 4    aisle to help make our state more affordable and 

 5    reject this budget resolution before us.

 6                 Thank you, Mr. President.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

 8    you, Senator Helming.

 9                 Senator Mattera, why do you rise?  

10                 SENATOR MATTERA:   Thank you, 

11    Mr. President.  Would the -- this is on energy.  

12    Would the sponsor please yield for a couple of 

13    questions?  

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   I believe 

15    Senator Parker will be answering those questions.  

16                 Senator Parker, do you yield?

17                 SENATOR PARKER:   Yes, 

18    Mr. President.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   He 

20    yields.  

21                 SENATOR MATTERA:   How are you, 

22    Senator Parker?  

23                 A quick question.  You know, why is 

24    there nothing in the one-house that reflects the 

25    Governor's stated desire to roll back the 


                                                               1297

 1    elements of the CLCPA?  And this is like one of 

 2    the most important subjects to all New Yorkers 

 3    right now, what is happening with the utility 

 4    bills.

 5                 So why isn't there anything put in 

 6    this one-house?

 7                 SENATOR PARKER:   Through you, 

 8    Mr. President.  Actually, I think there's a lot 

 9    in the one-house as it relates to the CLCPA.  I 

10    think we have stated opposition very clearly in 

11    this one-house that we support the goals of the 

12    CLCPA.  We're talking about a law that was 

13    created in 2019 that we're in the process of 

14    implementing.  And I think that we are going 

15    forward with a number of proposals that we think 

16    advance the goals of the CLCPA.

17                 SENATOR MATTERA:   Through you, 

18    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

19    yield, please?  

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Does the 

21    sponsor yield?  

22                 SENATOR PARKER:   Yes, 

23    Mr. President.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

25    sponsor yields.


                                                               1298

 1                 SENATOR MATTERA:   Senator, with 

 2    over 1.3 million New York residents behind on 

 3    their utility bills, in light of the recent and 

 4    troubling NYSERDA memo outlining moving forward 

 5    with the CLCPA will have a very real financial 

 6    impact on all New Yorkers, this is a time to see 

 7    change.  And we see nothing has really happened 

 8    with real impact on the real, illogical mandates 

 9    of the CLCPA, nothing to protect our residents 

10    from the all-electric mandates, nothing 

11    that increases -- it increases all utility bills.

12                 This is in the face of NYSERDA's 

13    memo.  We know there was a memo that was out, 

14    that this chamber said that that memo was false.  

15    But we know that it was totally true.

16                 Obviously with gas prices going up, 

17    spiking, households throughout the state will pay 

18    thousands more and businesses' cost is totally 

19    increasing.

20                 Again, what are we doing to help 

21    these 1.3 million residents that are behind on 

22    their utility bills?  

23                 SENATOR PARKER:   Through you, 

24    Mr. President.  The reality is right now we have 

25    a global increase in the prices of energy, right, 


                                                               1299

 1    because of a Republican war that was unsanctioned 

 2    by Congress, and it has literally raised the 

 3    prices of oil, gas and natural gas not just in 

 4    the State of New York, but throughout our 

 5    country.  

 6                 Over the last week we've seen gas 

 7    rise over 50 cents per gallon -- in the last 

 8    week -- because of that war.

 9                 And when we look at what raises 

10    prices of things like heating in our state, what 

11    NYSERDA will tell you, what the PSC will tell 

12    you, what the ISO will tell you is that that 

13    happens because of the global price of natural 

14    gas, not because of sustainable energy.

15                 And so in this moment, the things 

16    that are actually happening globally actually 

17    emphasize the perspective that the Senate 

18    Democrats are coming from, which is that we need 

19    more sustainable energy in our state immediately 

20    in order to lower prices and to make our state 

21    energy-independent.

22                 SENATOR MATTERA:   Through you, 

23    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

24    yield, please?  

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 


                                                               1300

 1    sponsor yield? 

 2                 SENATOR PARKER:   Yes, 

 3    Mr. President.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 5    sponsor yields.  

 6                 SENATOR MATTERA:   No, it's not 

 7    that, Senator.  That's this one week right now.  

 8    This has been going on for -- you know, what's 

 9    happening right now, since the CLCPA.  We could 

10    talk about how the utility rates have gone up 

11    over a hundred percent in all areas in New York 

12    State.  So stop the blame game all the time with 

13    the federal government.  

14                 You know what?  Let's talk about the 

15    2 billion plus, $2.4 billion that NYSERDA, Clean 

16    Energy Fund, unspent.  And nearly 700 million 

17    being held by utility companies waiting to be 

18    transferred to the Clean Energy Fund.

19                 Why is this happening?  And why 

20    aren't we doing anything about that?  Our 

21    conference is the one that brought this forward.  

22    And I'm still seeing nothing happening with that 

23    $2.4 billion going back to the ratepayers that 

24    are having a hard enough time, like we talked 

25    about -- there it is, 1.8 billion in arrears.  


                                                               1301

 1    But this is what we're doing, gouging, by having 

 2    a big fund of $2.4 billion.  

 3                 Why isn't there anything right now 

 4    in this one-house?

 5                 SENATOR PARKER:   Through you, 

 6    Mr. President.  We actually have a number of 

 7    measures in our one-house bill that actually 

 8    really address the real need of utility 

 9    affordability in our great state.  

10                 In fact, it's the Democratic 

11    Conference of the State Senate that five years 

12    ago came forward with the first-ever utility 

13    package.  And we've passed it year after year 

14    after year in this very house -- with many of my 

15    colleagues, Mr. President, voting against it.  

16    Things that would provide deep affordability to 

17    their constituents as well as mine.

18                 And so you have seen not just some 

19    of the things that the Governor has put forward, 

20    but in our one-house we've actually expanded the 

21    number of things that we believe would provide 

22    more affordability around utilities, and we're 

23    bringing them forward as things that we're going 

24    to be negotiating in the final budget.

25                 And so, you know, I think that we're 


                                                               1302

 1    doing all that we should be doing and frankly 

 2    more.

 3                 But let's also be clear that the 

 4    CLCPA and the plan hasn't even been implemented 

 5    yet.  So you can't even talk about like any 

 6    raising of utility prices being because of the 

 7    CLCPA because we haven't implemented the vast 

 8    majority of the things.

 9                 And the big thing that we were going 

10    to do, right, which was the offshore wind, once 

11    again got thwarted by Trump's administration.  So 

12    time after time after time we see the State of 

13    New York having to run to the defense of 

14    New Yorkers because of a federal government that 

15    continues to turn its back on us, that continues 

16    to go into unsanctioned wars and create energy 

17    crises globally.  Right?  As we look at prices 

18    going up for all of our homes even as we speak.  

19                 And so in this moment we look at 

20    this one-house bill brought by this Majority that 

21    says the way forward is to do the thing that 

22    we've already said we're going to do.  Right?  

23    Which is protect New Yorkers by providing clean, 

24    sustainable energy.  And it's the law already.  

25    So what we're talking about doing is following 


                                                               1303

 1    the law.

 2                 I know that this is a tough time for 

 3    everybody.  But this is New York.  And when 

 4    things get tough, New Yorkers get going.  And 

 5    what we're doing in this one-house is our best 

 6    efforts to make sure that we stay on course with 

 7    the Climate Leadership and Community Protection 

 8    Act, because that's what we believe that we must 

 9    do, provide leadership in our community and 

10    protect our climate while simultaneously making 

11    sure that we have affordability, reliability and 

12    meeting the energy needs of our great state.

13                 SENATOR MATTERA:   Mr. President, 

14    would the sponsor still continue to yield?  

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

16    sponsor yield?

17                 SENATOR PARKER:   Yes, 

18    Mr. President.  

19                 SENATOR MATTERA:   You know, you 

20    still didn't answer the question.  You did not 

21    answer the question.  

22                 Do you really feel -- I'm going to 

23    ask you again -- the $2.4 billion that's sitting 

24    with NYSERDA, should that go back to the 

25    ratepayers that -- we talk about affordability?  


                                                               1304

 1    This chamber -- that's what this budget was 

 2    supposed to be about.  Ask Governor Hochul about 

 3    affordability.  This isn't affordability.  I know 

 4    it.  Our constituents are suffering.  Again, 

 5    1.8 billion people can't even pay their bills.  

 6                 What are we doing to give this money 

 7    back to the ratepayer, Senator?

 8                 SENATOR PARKER:   Mr. President, 

 9    through you.  What we actually know about the 

10    CLCPA and what we know about cap-and-invest, 

11    which is also the law of the land, that still 

12    needs to be implemented, is that -- two things.  

13                 One, high energy prices are due to 

14    the global increase in gas, natural gas.  Which 

15    has not been helped -- in fact, exacerbated -- by 

16    Trump's war.  

17                 The second thing, that we understand 

18    that a full implementation of the CLCPA and a 

19    full implementation of cap-and-invest actually 

20    would lower prices for New Yorkers making 

21    $200,000 or less throughout the state.  They 

22    would actually all benefit from it.  And so what 

23    we're doing is advancing that long-term goal.

24                 I get it.  People want gimmicks.  

25    Right?  And sending people a $30 check is a cute 


                                                               1305

 1    gimmick, but it actually doesn't create the 

 2    structural kind of change that we need in our 

 3    system.  And that's what we're committed to, is 

 4    really addressing the issues and in a real, 

 5    substantial way.  

 6                 And so we stand here today proud of 

 7    our one-house because we understood the amount of 

 8    time and effort and energy that both legislators 

 9    and staff have put into putting these ideas 

10    together, making sure that they're 

11    cost-effective, and making sure that we are 

12    addressing the affordability crisis that we have 

13    here in the state, especially around utilities.  

14                 And again, this is not something 

15    that we started this year on.  You can look at 

16    the record.  We've passed this, you know, for 

17    five consecutive years and really tried to bring 

18    these issues to the forefront.  

19                 And so in this moment what we're 

20    trying to do is say use the resources that the 

21    state has to advance the agenda that the law has 

22    set up, both the CLCPA and cap-and-invest.  

23    Because long term, our energy costs will be lower 

24    and our state will have the resources that it 

25    needs in order to meet the growing demand for 


                                                               1306

 1    electricity in the state.

 2                 Let me be very clear.  If the CLCPA 

 3    was not in effect, we would still have the need 

 4    to produce additional generation.  And how could 

 5    you in this moment argue that you should build 

 6    more natural gas plants or coal plants or oil 

 7    plants when the global price of natural gas and 

 8    oil is what has everybody's energy prices so high 

 9    in this moment?  

10                 And so really the answer is 

11    sustainable energy.  Right?  And then I have 

12    always argued for an all-of-the-above approach as 

13    it relates to sustainable energy.  Right?  Sun 

14    during the day, wind at night, battery storage, 

15    hydro, co-gen, all become part of a mix that will 

16    not just fuel our state but also provide the kind 

17    of affordability, reliability and safety that we 

18    all need and desire.

19                 SENATOR MATTERA:   Through you, 

20    Mr. President.  Does the sponsor still please 

21    would yield for a couple more questions?  Because 

22    I would appreciate that.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

24    sponsor yield?

25                 SENATOR PARKER:   Yes, 


                                                               1307

 1    Mr. President.  

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 3    sponsor yields.  

 4                 SENATOR MATTERA:   And, 

 5    Senator Parker that was great, that was a great 

 6    whole story that you still didn't answer the 

 7    question.

 8                 New Yorkers want a refund.  And you 

 9    know what?  You went on with that whole story, 

10    which was very, very nice about your wind and 

11    solar, which I have no problem with, that all 

12    wind and solar, especially solar on buildings.  

13                 But battery storage?  Like you said, 

14    you don't mind a battery storage facility on your 

15    building in Brooklyn.  Which we know it's nothing 

16    but an experiment.  We all know that.

17                 So my question again to you is how 

18    do you feel about -- that we suspended, the 

19    Governor suspended the All-Electric Buildings Act 

20    in New York State?  It should have happened in 

21    New York City, by the way, but in New York State, 

22    because we all know that in other words we can't 

23    survive -- 75 percent of New Yorkers want natural 

24    gas and need natural gas.  Because guess what, we 

25    all know why our utility bills are going up.  


                                                               1308

 1                 But please answer that question for 

 2    me about the suspension of the All-Electric.

 3                 SENATOR PARKER:   I am -- I continue 

 4    to be entertained in this chamber by people just 

 5    creating numbers and saying what New Yorkers 

 6    want.  

 7                 We all represent New Yorkers.  And I 

 8    don't have a bunch of people beating down my door 

 9    in my district talking about "We want natural 

10    gas."  That's just literally not a thing.  Right?  

11                 Look, people want energy and they 

12    want reliable energy, they want affordable 

13    energy.  They are asking for us to meet their 

14    needs, which is what we have done in this 

15    chamber.  At least under our leadership.

16                 And so I'm hearing two separate 

17    questions, the first of which is about monies 

18    being held or held by the utility possibly going 

19    to NYSERDA and what we should do with that.

20                 If you read our -- Mr. President, 

21    any close examination of our one-house proposal 

22    tells you that our parts that address the -- you 

23    know, what utilities should be doing through the 

24    PSC, is that we should be examining these rate 

25    cases, really just having a real good look and 


                                                               1309

 1    not just giving rate cases a go just because 

 2    they're brought forward.  

 3                 And in the case in which we find 

 4    that the rate cases don't have merit and a refund 

 5    is in order, we actually are suggesting in our 

 6    one-house that those refunds happen.

 7                 The second question seemed to be 

 8    about, you know, other -- other things about, you 

 9    know, energy.  Let's be clear about this.  We've 

10    been using sustainable energy in this state for a 

11    hundred years.  Right?  And frankly the base of 

12    our sustainable energy program is actually hydro.  

13    We have some of the best hydroelectric facilities 

14    in the entire world, starting with Niagara Falls.  

15    Right?  

16                 And so this is not like some new 

17    untested thing or, you know, as my colleague 

18    indicates, some kind of experiment.  This is 

19    science.  We actually -- this is -- this is a 

20    known thing.  This is known, as they say.  Right?  

21    And as we like to say in Brooklyn, what is 

22    understood need not be explained.  Right?  We 

23    have been doing sustainable energy globally for 

24    decades.  And, like I said, you know, over a 

25    hundred years just here in this country.


                                                               1310

 1                 And so in this moment we continue to 

 2    be committed to the CLCPA and the goals of the 

 3    CLCPA.  We believe that what we should be doing 

 4    with the Governor is working with her to look at 

 5    the other options that are available.  

 6                 We have not addressed the issues 

 7    around demand response, which is over 10 percent.  

 8    There's lots of resources for us to do 

 9    weatherization and, you know, remodeling of 

10    buildings in order to save energy.  

11                 We understand in our Green Collar 

12    Jobs Act that we have not just -- you know, not 

13    just that I wrote 10 years ago that we have 

14    reupped for a number of years.  It lowers 

15    people's energy prices.  Right?  It, you know, 

16    reduces our footprint and also creates full-time 

17    jobs at a living wage with benefits.  

18                 And so the work that we have done 

19    around sustainable energy and the work that 

20    should be done with the full implementation of 

21    the CLCPA and cap-and-invest are going to be 

22    really, really important not just for the future 

23    of the state from an energy perspective, but also 

24    for creating affordability, not just with 

25    utilities but in the lifestyles of New Yorkers 


                                                               1311

 1    across our state.

 2                 SENATOR MATTERA:   On the bill.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 4    Mattera on the bill.

 5                 SENATOR MATTERA:   Thank you, 

 6    Mr. President.

 7                 You know, this budget is supposed to 

 8    be about affordability.  You know what?  This 

 9    budget is just out of control.  Sixteen billion 

10    dollars more than last year, and to do nothing to 

11    help our residents in New York State.  

12                 Energy is one of the most important 

13    things, topics today, about people's utility 

14    bills.  They can't afford them.  And they look at 

15    their bills every day and say, What am I supposed 

16    to do?  There's a reason why we have 2.5 million 

17    people residents of this great state, that exited 

18    to go to Tennessee, North Carolina, South 

19    Carolina, Florida, Texas, even South Dakota, 

20    because of what's happening here.  Gouging all 

21    New Yorkers in their pockets and their 

22    pocketbooks.  

23                 This chamber is doing this.  I'm a 

24    very conservative person my whole life.  With 

25    Plumbers Local 200, with our pensions, making 


                                                               1312

 1    sure to make sure that people can survive.  And 

 2    you know what they're doing?  Our workers are 

 3    leaving.  Our pension people are leaving.  They 

 4    can't afford to live here with that pension, 

 5    especially with what's going on here.

 6                 Imagine that, a $270 billion budget, 

 7    more than Florida, Texas, South Dakota and 

 8    North Dakota combined.  You can talk about our 

 9    energy needs all day long.  Our NESE pipeline is 

10    finally coming in because it's a necessity.  

11                 We had a meeting, we had a meeting 

12    before session started making sure that that NESE 

13    pipeline, we proved that we need to make sure 

14    that NESE pipeline is here for the future of our 

15    natural gas so we can survive here with our 

16    energy needs.  

17                 To go sit there and say all 

18    electric -- it doesn't work.  We put the cart 

19    before the horse.  We need to make sure that we 

20    invest in our infrastructure first, then 

21    transition into.  No.  It's always the cart 

22    before the horse with New York State.  

23                 But there's the Governor again, 

24    there she is, she sits there and she says:  

25    Affordability.  Last year it was about discovery, 


                                                               1313

 1    and that didn't happen.  I think we're going to 

 2    have a late budget, everybody, because of this 

 3    situation.  And I hope so.  In other words, that 

 4    we repeal the CLCPA, we repeal cap-and-invest.  

 5    And you know what?  And start over.  Start over.  

 6    New drawing board.  

 7                 That's how it's important, 

 8    especially for our energy needs for our future, 

 9    for our ratepayers.  They care about certain -- 

10    they want their own fuel choice.  They want their 

11    energy choice.  And you know what, Mr. President?  

12    I will be voting a big no on this, first of all, 

13    because it helps no New Yorker in their pockets.  

14    And that's what New Yorkers care about.

15                 Thank you.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

17    you, Senator Mattera.

18                 Senator Walczyk, why do you rise?

19                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Mr. President, 

20    I'd like to go briefly on the resolution and then 

21    ask some questions on energy.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

23    you.  Senator Walczyk on the resolution.

24                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Mr. President, in 

25    Part RR of this budget resolution, the Senate 


                                                               1314

 1    Majority is using the Clean Energy Fund, which is 

 2    paid for by the ratepayers, to pay for $2,000 

 3    rebates on used Teslas.  In Part SS, the Senate 

 4    Majority is using that same fund, asking people 

 5    to pay for -- who pay an electric and gas bill to 

 6    pay for an $1100 rebate for electric scooters and 

 7    bikes.  In Part GGG, the Senate Majority is 

 8    asking ratepayers to give out $2,000 rebates for 

 9    heat pumps through NYSERDA, paid for once again 

10    by ratepayers.  In Part III, you're asking 

11    ratepayers to spend $3 billion more on NY-SUN to 

12    build a capacity of 20 gigawatts of solar by 

13    2035.  

14                 New Yorkers cannot afford their 

15    energy bills now.  

16                 And with that, Mr. President, I 

17    would ask someone on Energy to yield for a couple 

18    of questions.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

20    Parker, do you yield?  

21                 SENATOR PARKER:   I will, thank you.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

23    Parker yields.

24                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Thank you.  

25    Through you, Madam -- through you, Mr. President, 


                                                               1315

 1    does this resolution use $2 billion in unspent 

 2    Clean Energy Fund and send them back to the 

 3    ratepayers, as has been proposed by an esteemed 

 4    member of our body?

 5                 SENATOR PARKER:   Mr. President, not 

 6    exactly.  

 7                 There are -- as I indicated in my 

 8    answer to Senator Mattera, there are instances in 

 9    which we are directing the PSC in their 

10    examination of utilities and their rate cases, 

11    when they find places where it's appropriate to 

12    send back rebates -- I'm sorry, refunds, they are 

13    sending refunds in.  No, no, sorry, they're 

14    directed to send refunds.

15                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Mr. President, 

16    would the sponsor yield?

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will you 

18    yield?  

19                 SENATOR PARKER:   I do.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

21    sponsor yields.

22                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

23    Mr. President.  Does your budget proposal here 

24    have a one-year tax and surcharge holiday, as has 

25    been proposed by a colleague here?


                                                               1316

 1                 SENATOR PARKER:   Through you, 

 2    Mr. President, we do not.

 3                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

 4    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

 5    yield?  

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 7    sponsor yield?  Does the sponsor yield?

 8                 SENATOR PARKER:   Yes.  I'm sorry, 

 9    yes.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

11    Parker yields.  

12                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Does this 

13    one-house budget resolution repeal the systems 

14    benefit charge, as I've proposed?  

15                 SENATOR PARKER:   No, it does not, 

16    Mr. President.

17                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And through you, 

18    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

19    yield?  

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

21    sponsor yield?

22                 SENATOR PARKER:   Yes.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

24    sponsor yields.

25                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Does this budget 


                                                               1317

 1    resolution repeal any piece of the CLCPA?  

 2                 SENATOR PARKER:   No, Mr. President, 

 3    we proudly stand by the CLCPA, which we helped 

 4    negotiate, and understand it as the most 

 5    ambitious climate change law in the entire 

 6    country, one that should be not just a model for 

 7    the United States but hopefully will create the 

 8    dynamic in which we need to do a multinational 

 9    understanding to save our planet and to lower our 

10    greenhouse emissions globally.

11                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

12    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

13    yield?  

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Does the 

15    sponsor yield?

16                 SENATOR PARKER:   Yes.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

18    sponsor yields.  

19                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   New Yorkers have 

20    been screaming about energy prices for the better 

21    part of a year, and especially over the last few 

22    months.  How much of a reduction, if your budget 

23    resolution became law, became the budget in 

24    New York State, how much of a reduction in 

25    utility costs could they anticipate?


                                                               1318

 1                 SENATOR PARKER:   Mr. President, 

 2    through you.  We don't have an exact answer to 

 3    that because we're still trying to figure out how 

 4    much money the utilities are overcharging our 

 5    constituents, both yours and mine.  

 6                 And so what we are suggesting in our 

 7    one-house is to have some real answers around 

 8    those numbers.  That way we can understand how 

 9    much savings our proposals will in fact bring.

10                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

11    Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to 

12    yield?

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

14    sponsor yield?

15                 SENATOR PARKER:   Yes.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

17    sponsor yields.

18                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Does this 

19    one-house budget resolution include 

20    Senator O'Mara's bill on ratepayer transparency 

21    so they actually can see where every dollar on 

22    their bill is going to all of these things?

23                 SENATOR PARKER:   Through you, 

24    Mr. President.  We actually have a number of 

25    proposals that create transparency, including 


                                                               1319

 1    language from various members, including 

 2    Senator Mayer, Senator Hinchey, myself and 

 3    others, that create a level, a significant level 

 4    of transparency and accountability that does not 

 5    currently exist either in the PSC or in the 

 6    rate-case process.  

 7                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Through you, 

 8    Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to 

 9    yield?

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

11    sponsor yield?

12                 SENATOR PARKER:   Yes.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

14    sponsor yields.  

15                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   The concern is 

16    specifically on green energy mandates.  Will 

17    people be able to see what green energy projects 

18    are being paid for out of their utility bill if 

19    any of those proposals -- I didn't even see 

20    necessarily that they were included in this 

21    resolution, if they are.  Will we see any of that 

22    out of this resolution?

23                 SENATOR PARKER:   Mr. President, 

24    through you.  The proposals that we have put 

25    forward in our one-house actually requires an 


                                                               1320

 1    examination of projects that is currently not 

 2    required either by the CLCPA or in current law.  

 3                 And so what we're suggesting is to 

 4    create the kind of transparency that allows us to 

 5    understand what projects are being paid for, how 

 6    they're being paid, and where that energy is 

 7    going.  So we hope to in fact do that.

 8                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   And through you, 

 9    Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to 

10    yield.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

12    sponsor yield? 

13                 SENATOR PARKER:   Yes.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

15    sponsor yields.

16                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   On 

17    cap-and-invest -- and I don't want to rehash a 

18    lot of the things, but cap-and-invest, NYSERDA 

19    estimates, will cost New Yorkers about 

20    $5.7 billion additional each year.  They say that 

21    the program will add $2.23 per gallon of gas.  

22    They say that each household energy cost can 

23    anticipate $4100 a year in additional cost to the 

24    ratepayer.  They say that cap-and-invest will 

25    cost businesses 46 percent more in utility costs.  


                                                               1321

 1    They say that delivery trucks will cost 

 2    60 percent more to run.

 3                 Is that affordable?  

 4                 SENATOR PARKER:   Through you, 

 5    Mr. President.  I love Doreen Harris, but they're 

 6    absolutely wrong in this particular analysis.  

 7                 Now, one, you can make numbers say 

 8    almost whatever you want them to say.  Part of 

 9    what's not happening here is a real buildout of 

10    understanding where the program starts and where 

11    it ends.  It also does not take into account the 

12    money that's actually going back into communities 

13    because of the care economy that's built into the 

14    CLCPA -- I'm sorry, into cap-and-invest.  

15                 And so there -- and also what's not 

16    built into there is funds that are used out of 

17    NYSERDA which are off-book and don't come out of 

18    the General Fund that actually pays for most of 

19    the stuff that you talked about earlier with the 

20    Clean Energy Fund, you know, and rebates that in 

21    fact get us to a place of less energy.  

22                 We actually know that using 

23    electric vehicles actually saves people money.  

24    So creating a rebate that in fact does that 

25    actually helps them both with the capital 


                                                               1322

 1    purchase but, more importantly, with the long -- 

 2    over time, use of the vehicle will in fact reduce 

 3    the energy cost.

 4                 Heat pumps.  The use of solar, 

 5    whether community aggregated or utility-scale, is 

 6    a much cheaper commodity for ratepayers to use 

 7    than oil or natural gas that they're dependent on 

 8    now.

 9                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Thank you.

10                 Mr. President, on the resolution.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

12    Walczyk on the resolution.

13                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   You know, Doreen 

14    Harris and NYSERDA has often referred to as the 

15    experts that we're supposed to trust on these 

16    things.  But it's amazing that we don't trust the 

17    experts when they show New Yorkers how much this 

18    is going to cost them.  That is their concern.  

19    You're happy to -- you're happy to say, Oh, the 

20    experts are all right on all of these climate 

21    models, but when we ask them how much it's going 

22    to cost -- well, ignore the cost.  

23                 You're ignoring New Yorkers right 

24    now, and the experts.  You don't want to trust 

25    the experts there?  The Department of Public 


                                                               1323

 1    Service reported in December of 2025 -- this is 

 2    before all of your offices started getting calls 

 3    about angry ratepayers over the cold months -- 

 4    that 1.4 million customers in the State of 

 5    New York were 60 days or more behind in their 

 6    energy bills already.  One in eight residential 

 7    customers for our utilities were already in 

 8    arrears in December.  

 9                 Imagine what that looks like today.  

10    People can't afford -- they're not even paying 

11    their energy bills right now.  I don't know how I 

12    could say it any louder or how I could emphasize 

13    it on their behalf any more.  They can't pay what 

14    you've already done, and you're asking them to do 

15    more.  

16                 And you've ignored compromise.  

17    There's 63 Senators in here.  Twenty-nine of you 

18    have signed on to a letter saying we don't want 

19    to move on the CLCPA.  Got it.  Guess what?  

20    That's no longer the majority.  The majority in 

21    this body says we do want changes to the CLCPA.  

22    The majority of New Yorkers that can't afford it 

23    say that they want changes to the CLCPA because 

24    they can't afford their utility bills now.

25                 You have an obligation not to 


                                                               1324

 1    respond to me, to respond to the people of the 

 2    State of New York who are saying what you're 

 3    doing is unaffordable.  And in your one-house 

 4    bill resolution today you've completely missed 

 5    that opportunity.  

 6                 Stop raising our energy prices.

 7                 Thank you, Mr. President.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 9    Walczyk on the resolution.

10                 Senator Borrello, why do you rise? 

11                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you, 

12    Mr. President.  I would like to ask a question 

13    about HMH Article VII new Part KK, the gender 

14    affirming care access program, if somebody would 

15    answer that question.  

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   I believe 

17    Senator Rivera will be responding.  

18                 Senator Rivera, do you yield to 

19    questions?  

20                 SENATOR RIVERA:   I yield.  

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

22    Rivera yields.

23                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Through you, 

24    Mr. President.  This is a new program that was 

25    created, the Gender Affirming Care Access 


                                                               1325

 1    Program.  Does this Gender Affirming Care Access 

 2    Program you're creating and funding allow minors 

 3    to receive gender-affirming care?  

 4                 SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

 5    Mr. President.  Gender-affirming care -- I should 

 6    say age-appropriate gender-affirming care is a 

 7    necessary thing for people all around our country 

 8    and for, in this case, young people in this state 

 9    and around our country.  

10                 I understand that my colleague 

11    perhaps -- or certainly -- you know what, I will 

12    not speak of my colleague.  But certainly folks 

13    on the other side of the aisle like to paint this 

14    terrible picture, this horrible scene in which 

15    kids are manipulated into trying to become 

16    something that they are not, where they're 

17    operated on without their consent or their 

18    parents' consent or some other terrible thing.  

19                 As opposed to that, gender-affirming 

20    care, Mr. President, age-appropriate 

21    gender-affirming care is making sure that when 

22    there are young kids who are going through a 

23    situation in their lives where they're trying to 

24    find out who they are, they can be supported.  

25    Not through operations or other things that some 


                                                               1326

 1    folks on the right have been trying to make seem 

 2    like it was happening.  No, no, no.  

 3                 What we're talking about is 

 4    age-appropriate gender-affirming care to make 

 5    sure that kids and their parents who are going 

 6    through a situation in which they're trying to 

 7    figure out who they are, can be supported.  And 

 8    when they reach the appropriate age, 

 9    Mr. President, and under medical supervision, 

10    they could potentially have medical procedures, 

11    have drugs that they might take, etc.

12                 So just -- I just want to make sure 

13    that as far as the definition of what we're 

14    talking about, that is what we're talking about, 

15    and so -- when we speak about gender-affirming 

16    care.  

17                 And as far as this is concerned, as 

18    this particular program or part in the budget, it 

19    is a very -- it is similar to a bill that is 

20    carried by one of our colleagues here in this 

21    chamber, Senator Gonzalez.  And it would be -- it 

22    will create a fund that would be available for -- 

23    to support parents and children that are going 

24    through this type of situation.

25                 So it would indeed, Mr. President, 


                                                               1327

 1    impact minors.  It would indeed impact folks who 

 2    are not 18.  But it would indeed include their 

 3    parents and would indeed be done with 

 4    professionals who care deeply about these young 

 5    people and the situations that they're going 

 6    through.

 7                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

 8    will the sponsor continue to yield.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

10    sponsor yield?

11                 SENATOR RIVERA:   I do.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

13    sponsor yields.

14                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   All right, so 

15    you confirm that children under the age of 18 

16    will have access to this.  

17                 But you brought up parents.  So can 

18    you explain to me where in here it requires 

19    parental consent and parental notification to get 

20    that care?  I don't see that here.

21                 (Pause.)

22                 SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

23    Mr. President, this current proposal does not 

24    change anything in current state law.  Current 

25    state law requires this parental consent.  


                                                               1328

 1                 But again, there's a reference, an 

 2    inference that people are supposed to make from 

 3    this conversation and from the types of questions 

 4    that are being asked.  And I repeat again, we are 

 5    not talking about some horror version of some 

 6    transformation that happens to people without 

 7    them wanting it.  We're talking about young 

 8    children who, yes, are under 18 and therefore 

 9    still under their parents' care.  But we're 

10    talking about the type of age-appropriate 

11    gender-affirming care that might be given to 

12    them.

13                 It does not necessarily 

14    include surgery, does not necessarily include 

15    pharmaceuticals.  But it does include care for 

16    those individuals and a respect for who they are.

17                 So there's going to be all sorts of 

18    inferences.  But the direct question -- the 

19    direct answer, Mr. President, is that there's 

20    nothing in reference in this particular part that 

21    refers to parental consent, but it does not 

22    change anything in current state law, which 

23    refers to parental consent.

24                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Through you, 

25    Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to 


                                                               1329

 1    yield? 

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 3    sponsor yield?

 4                 SENATOR RIVERA:   I do.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 6    sponsor yields.  

 7                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   I think it's 

 8    very clear that there is no parental consent 

 9    required.  It's happened time and time again.  In 

10    fact, schools are prohibited from telling parents 

11    should a child come to them and talk about, you 

12    know, their gender issues.

13                 So I guess I'm going to ask the 

14    question, then, what part of the law in New York 

15    State outside of this bill would require parental 

16    consent before a child could get live-changing 

17    surgery or medication?  

18                 SENATOR RIVERA:   Mr. President, 

19    through you.  I will say it once again.  And now 

20    my colleague says it directly.  There is no 

21    situation in which there will be some sort of 

22    transformation without a process that an 

23    individual goes through.  

24                 This is -- I have a -- I have a 

25    trans niece, Mr. President, a trans niece who 


                                                               1330

 1    lives in the worst place to live in this country 

 2    at this moment for her situation, Florida, 

 3    Mr. President, after the election, reelection of 

 4    the person who currently sits in the White House.  

 5                 She works at an Au Bon Pain or 

 6    something like that, one of these places that 

 7    makes French sandwiches or whatever.  A person in 

 8    a red hat, somebody wearing a nice red hat orders 

 9    a sandwich, sees my niece making the sandwich, 

10    and then proceeds to berate her loudly and 

11    publicly in the restaurant, saying "I don't want 

12    that" -- and then said a slur -- "making my 

13    frigging sandwich."  Had to be escorted outside.  

14    My niece had to go back home.  

15                 This person felt empowered to say 

16    those things.  I believe that what we're talking 

17    about here, while it may be couched in a 

18    conversation about this particular piece of the 

19    one-house budget proposal, has this broader 

20    stigma attached to it.  As though when we say 

21    gender-affirming care, we're talking about kids 

22    being taken away from their parents and being 

23    transformed without their consent.  

24                 That is not what gender-affirming 

25    care is, regardless of what my colleagues believe 


                                                               1331

 1    or what certain people on the right believe.

 2                 And so I once again will say there's 

 3    no one who is snatched from their parents' arms 

 4    and transformed into something that they're not, 

 5    and taken away from their families.  That's not 

 6    what gender-affirming care is.  It never was, it 

 7    never has been.  And this certainly does not 

 8    provide for anything like that to happen in the 

 9    State of New York.

10                 As opposed to that, it proposes the 

11    creation of a fund which would support 

12    individuals, parents and children, that are going 

13    through this process so that they can do so with 

14    care and with love and with support.

15                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Mr. President, 

16    on the bill.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

18    Borrello on the resolution.

19                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So I really 

20    didn't get any real answers to the questions, but 

21    I appreciate your stories.  

22                 There's another part of this bill 

23    that's also concerning for me.  I was going to 

24    ask the question, but I'm not going to get an 

25    answer.  And that's the fact that this money 


                                                               1332

 1    could be used to help pay for doctors' liability 

 2    and malpractice insurance.  And we all are aware 

 3    of the fact that there was just a recent New York 

 4    case where a jury awarded $2 million to a 

 5    gender-transitioned patient who was transitioned 

 6    as a minor but, later, courts determined that she 

 7    had been unlawfully pressured and the doctors 

 8    ultimately were found liable of medical 

 9    malpractice for pushing her to have the 

10    gender-affirming surgeries.  

11                 So now we're going to allow more of 

12    that, and we're going to cover the cost for these 

13    doctors to do this.

14                 What's interesting about this is 

15    this.  In New York State you have to be 21 to buy 

16    alcohol or marijuana.  You have to be 18 to get a 

17    tattoo.  If a minor wants to get their ears 

18    pierced -- ears pierced -- they have to have 

19    parental permission, and when they go there, they 

20    actually have to have a copy of the child's birth 

21    certificate and the parent needs to present their 

22    photo ID to prove who they are.  Shocking.  

23                 But if a 6-year-old decides that 

24    today I don't think I'm a boy anymore, I'm a 

25    girl, that can happen with no safeguards in 


                                                               1333

 1    place.  And this fund, this fund will allow that 

 2    to happen.

 3                 Now, I don't have an issue with 

 4    someone who's an adult who makes an adult 

 5    decision about something that is irreversible.  

 6    Irreversible.  But I do have an issue with a 

 7    child doing so.  And that's the problem with 

 8    this.  It's reprehensible, and I'll be voting no.

 9                 Thank you.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

11    Ashby, why do you rise?

12                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Good afternoon, 

13    Mr. President.  Would the appropriate Senator 

14    yield for questions regarding HMH Part H?

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

16    Rivera, will you be yielding to the questions?  

17                 SENATOR RIVERA:   Yup.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

19    Rivera yields.

20                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Through you, 

21    Mr. President.  This has to deal with material 

22    transactions.  There had been in place a 

23    $25 million threshold.  Now, additional 

24    regulations will be in place when they exceed 

25    $100 million, or when deemed necessary.


                                                               1334

 1                 Has there been any consideration to 

 2    what this will do in terms of increasing 

 3    Medicaid expenses?

 4                 (Pause.)

 5                 SENATOR RIVERA:   Through you, 

 6    Mr. President.  So this particular part of the 

 7    one-house budget proposal has to do with what are 

 8    known as material transactions.  In the State of 

 9    New York we would -- we not only have it in law, 

10    but we certainly want to make sure that as many 

11    of our dollars go to actual care as possible.  

12                 The reality is that in some 

13    situations -- so I should back up.  So for that 

14    to be the case, we want to make sure that 

15    facilities that provide care should be owned by 

16    folks who provide care.  

17                 But unfortunately, some of the ways 

18    that it works sometimes, because private equity 

19    gets involved, as you know, Mr. President, and 

20    figures out a way to make money somewhere, there 

21    are some times where there's all these sorts of 

22    transactions that happen when the cousin or the 

23    niece or the nephew or the brother or the father 

24    then owns the building and then rents it out, and 

25    then the cleaning company that's owned by this 


                                                               1335

 1    and -- there's all sorts of things that might 

 2    happen there that ultimately mean the dollars 

 3    that should go from the State of New York to care 

 4    instead are going to fatten the pockets of 

 5    somebody who's just figured out to how to move 

 6    the stacks around so that -- so that they can 

 7    make some money in -- by owning a building, then 

 8    renting the building to themselves, et cetera, 

 9    et cetera, et cetera.

10                 So the hundred millions that we're 

11    talking about are for the sake of the Department 

12    of Health -- they have the discretion to use as 

13    much as that to do further investigation, further 

14    searches, if you will, to determine whether these 

15    types of things are happening.

16                 So that's -- that's ultimately what 

17    this is about.  This is not about -- this is not 

18    about more money being charged to -- for -- to 

19    taxpayers, et cetera.  It's about allowing the 

20    Department of Health to have a pot of money that 

21    they would have the discretion to use to further 

22    these investigations to determine whether the law 

23    is being followed.

24                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Through you, 

25    Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to 


                                                               1336

 1    yield?  

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 3    sponsor yield? 

 4                 SENATOR RIVERA:   Yes.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 6    sponsor yields.

 7                 SENATOR ASHBY:   So I'll take that 

 8    as a no.

 9                 In terms of the length of time to 

10    delay these transactions, it's 180 days.  That's 

11    six months.  And certainly I can see this being 

12    applied when there are bad actors, right, but in 

13    many instances there are not bad actors.  And in 

14    rural areas, for example, and in nonrural areas, 

15    there are non-bad actors where, when they face 

16    this hurdle, they're simply going to close rather 

17    than merge, then leaving their patients in 

18    deserts, healthcare deserts. 

19                 Has this been examined?

20                 (Pause.)

21                 SENATOR RIVERA:   So through you, 

22    Mr. President, certainly I'm -- we should 

23    consider the conversation we had a little earlier 

24    about that extra money that we're putting into 

25    the budget that -- into this one-house budget 


                                                               1337

 1    proposal that some of my colleagues criticized 

 2    that has to do with providing support to 

 3    distressed providers.  

 4                 I'm certainly aware of parts of the 

 5    state that are healthcare deserts or that have -- 

 6    or have a dearth of services.  But in this case 

 7    what we're saying is that it is -- this is not 

 8    intended to -- this is not intended to stop the 

 9    folks who are good actors.  Instead, it is meant 

10    to dissuade those who are bad actors.  

11                 And the -- and we found that -- that 

12    is ultimately the goal of this.  And it is not to 

13    dissuade individuals from acquiring, you know, 

14    healthcare facilities if they're going to do so.  

15                 But we just want to make sure that 

16    we have a little bit of extra time to make sure 

17    that if these types of changes are happening, 

18    that they're being done as a way to make sure 

19    that more care can be provided and not just some 

20    more money can be made by certain people that 

21    might be involved.  And I certainly think that 

22    that's a good thing that the state should do.

23                 SENATOR ASHBY:   On the resolution.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

25    Ashby on the resolution.


                                                               1338

 1                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Mr. President, what 

 2    will eventually happen with this is that the 

 3    patients who are unable to be seen because these 

 4    mergers are being denied over a six-month period, 

 5    huge fines being in place, is they will go to the 

 6    hospital to be seen.  

 7                 Which will drive up medical costs, 

 8    because everybody in this body knows that 

 9    hospital costs for healthcare and Medicaid are 

10    higher than a physician's office.  And that 

11    doesn't just have to be with primary care, that's 

12    specialty care as well.  So that's cancer care.  

13    That's OB care.  That's across the board driving 

14    them into a setting that is more expensive, will 

15    drive up Medicaid costs continuously.  

16                 I will be voting no.  Thank you.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

18    you, Senator Ashby.

19                 Senator Borrello, why do you rise?

20                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you, 

21    Mr. President.

22                 Coming up for a second time here.  

23    So I'm wearing this sport coat; I had to.  

24                 So would somebody answer a question 

25    on Part VV for me?  VV.  


                                                               1339

 1                 Of what.  Good question.  I didn't 

 2    get that part.  It's a question about they 

 3    were -- you're striking the word "citizen" in 

 4    that section.  Good question.  I'm not sure.

 5                 (Pause.)

 6                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   We're looking for 

 7    it.

 8                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   We'll come back 

 9    around later.  Thank you.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

11    Gianaris.

12                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Thank you.  And 

13    as we search for the section of the resolution 

14    that Senator Borrello is referring to, let me 

15    remind everyone we're now 15 minutes away from 

16    the two-hour mark.  

17                 And so with remaining members who 

18    have questions, just understand the time frame.  

19    Thank you.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

21    Martins, why do you rise?

22                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Thank you, 

23    Mr. President.  I had a question -- or a few 

24    questions on SEQRA.  And I was hoping someone 

25    would answer just a few questions.


                                                               1340

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   I believe 

 2    Senator Harckham will be responding.  

 3                 Senator Harckham, do you yield?  

 4                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   I do, 

 5    Mr. President.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 7    Harckham yields to questions.

 8                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Thank you, 

 9    Senator.

10                 This proposal differs from the 

11    Governor's proposal, isn't that correct?

12                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

13    Mr. President, it does.  It narrows the focus of 

14    what the Governor was trying to do.  

15                 We base -- through you, 

16    Mr. President -- our notion of what this should 

17    be on a bill this chamber passed before, a 

18    Senator May bill, much narrower focus, 

19    multifamily housing, focused on urban and 

20    semi-urban infill, as opposed to sprawl and other 

21    projects that the Governor had included.

22                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Through you, 

23    Mr. President, if the Senator would continue to 

24    yield.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 


                                                               1341

 1    sponsor yield?

 2                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 4    sponsor yields.

 5                 SENATOR MARTINS:   This bill 

 6    would -- or this provision would effectively 

 7    determine that there is no impact under certain 

 8    circumstances for the construction of multifamily 

 9    homes in communities.  Isn't that right?

10                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

11    Mr. President, it would do a few things.  

12                 One, it narrows and puts a finite 

13    timeline on the environmental impact statement.  

14    So that would be limited to a year.  

15                 And then yes, essentially if a 

16    property had been developed, redeveloped, and was 

17    an infill site, yes, it would effectively do 

18    that.  As opposed to, you know, a new virgin 

19    site.  That would be a different thing.

20                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Mr. President, 

21    through you, if the Senator would continue to 

22    yield.  

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

24    sponsor yield? 

25                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yes.


                                                               1342

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 2    sponsor yields.

 3                 SENATOR MARTINS:   So if we tear 

 4    down houses to build multifamily housing, that 

 5    property has already been disturbed and therefore 

 6    there would be a presumption, given certain 

 7    parameters that are in the language of this 

 8    provision, that that could be built without 

 9    consideration of the impacts because it would be 

10    determined, because of the language of this bill, 

11    that there are no impacts.  

12                 (Pause.)

13                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Through you, 

14    Mr. President.  It could require -- necessitate 

15    an exemption from SEQRA, but it does not exempt 

16    whatever the project is from the regular local 

17    zoning and planning and other environmental 

18    regulations that there may be, either statewide 

19    or through the municipality.

20                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Thank you, 

21    Senator.

22                 Mr. President, on the resolution.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

24    Martins on the resolution.  

25                 SENATOR MARTINS:   So that's the 


                                                               1343

 1    issue with this particular piece, is that it 

 2    presupposes that the local government, through 

 3    their permitting process, has the same effect of 

 4    SEQRA, which it doesn't.  

 5                 Anyone who understands the process 

 6    and the burden that this places on our local 

 7    communities, on our villages and towns and 

 8    cities, has to understand that merely saying that 

 9    you can build 200 units in a community of less 

10    than 90,000 people without doing an impact 

11    statement and allowing for people and the 

12    developer to mitigate those costs, is a mistake.  

13    Whether it's water resources, sewer resources, 

14    whether it is the impact on the local community, 

15    and whether it's a right fit, height, density.  

16                 It doesn't speak to how big the 

17    property has to be, how many units per acre.  It 

18    just says in a community -- and there are various 

19    stages here -- you can build up to a certain 

20    amount with no impact.

21                 Now, the consequence of that, 

22    Mr. President, not only is that we're taking away 

23    the opportunity for a local community to properly 

24    gauge what the impact is -- and they have every 

25    right to do so.  


                                                               1344

 1                 But if you understand land use and 

 2    you go beyond what the SEQRA requirements are, if 

 3    they go and ask for a variance and an area 

 4    variance, Mr. President, part of the 

 5    determination of an area variance in a community 

 6    is whether or not the impacts to the community 

 7    are offset by the benefit from the project.  

 8                 And if you're going to presuppose 

 9    that there is no impact from the project, you are 

10    already putting your finger on the scale and 

11    forcing that community to build, and you are 

12    undermining zoning in every community of this 

13    state.

14                 So for those of us who are concerned 

15    about the environment, if you are -- and I know, 

16    Senator, you are -- how do we do that and not 

17    allow for those items to be properly measured and 

18    properly determined in a way that is respectful 

19    for that local community?

20                 This is a mistake.  SEQRA can and 

21    should be streamlined.  But this goes too far.

22                 Mr. President, one more series of 

23    questions with regard to PPGG, Part L and PPGG 

24    Part M, having to do with immigration, if the 

25    sponsor would yield.


                                                               1345

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Yes, I 

 2    believe Senator Myrie will be responding.  

 3                 Senator Myrie, do you yield?  

 4                 SENATOR MYRIE:   Yes.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 6    sponsor yields.

 7                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Thank you, 

 8    Senator.

 9                 I notice that these parts were 

10    eliminated from the Governor's budget altogether.  

11    Is that because the majority disagree with the 

12    Governor and feels that the Governor has gone too 

13    far with regard to these provisions and therefore 

14    wants no part of it?  Or is it because you 

15    believe that the Governor's provision doesn't go 

16    far enough and you want to address it outside of 

17    the budget?  Which is it?

18                 SENATOR MYRIE:   Through you, 

19    Mr. President.  And I appreciate the question.  

20                 I think we make clear in our 

21    resolution language that we are concerned about 

22    some of the actions that we have seen, some of 

23    the constitutionality questions, some of the 

24    immigration enforcement that has had 

25    disproportionate impacts on particular 


                                                               1346

 1    communities throughout the state.

 2                 And this is a complex area of law.  

 3    We had, as a state, taken action in this space 

 4    six years ago when we passed the Protect Our 

 5    Courts Act that was challenged in our courts and 

 6    upheld as constitutional.  

 7                 And so the state has an ability to 

 8    exercise its constitutional power.  We respect 

 9    and appreciate the constitutional power that the 

10    federal government has in the immigration space.  

11    And because of that, we think that this is a 

12    conversation that should be happening outside of 

13    the budget.  

14                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Through you, 

15    Mr. President, if the Senator would continue to 

16    yield.  

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

18    sponsor yield? 

19                 SENATOR MYRIE:   Yes.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

21    sponsor yields.

22                 SENATOR MARTINS:   So is the 

23    Majority taking a position with regard to the 

24    language?  Is it -- is it not -- does it not go 

25    far enough?  Or is it just too much and therefore 


                                                               1347

 1    you believe the Governor has gone too far?  

 2                 I'm just looking for clarity with 

 3    regard to the majority's position in repealing or 

 4    removing these sections from the resolution.

 5                 SENATOR MYRIE:   Through you, 

 6    Mr. President.  Our Majority Leader I think has 

 7    been clear publicly about the sentiment of our 

 8    conference in wanting to move forward on policies 

 9    surrounding immigration.  

10                 I note that the Governor herself put 

11    this conversation outside of the budget by 

12    introducing three program bills, which to us 

13    indicates that she wants to have this 

14    conversation outside of the budget as well.  So 

15    we look forward to working with the Assembly and 

16    the Governor to make that happen.

17                 SENATOR MARTINS:   And of course -- 

18    through you, Mr. President.  And of course I'm 

19    sure the Senator means with every Senator in this 

20    chamber as well.

21                 Thank you very much.  And thank you, 

22    Senator.

23                 SENATOR MYRIE:   Thank you.  

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

25    Borrello, why do you rise?


                                                               1348

 1                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   I'm back.  I do 

 2    have the section now:  Part VV of TED.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   I believe 

 4    Senator Harckham will be responding.

 5                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Right, 

 6    Mr. President.  Sorry.  Scribbling my notes.  I 

 7    apologize, Mr. President.  Apologize, Senator.

 8                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Will the sponsor 

 9    yield for a question?

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

11    sponsor yield?

12                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely.  

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

14    sponsor yields.

15                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So interesting 

16    that 19 times in this section you struck the word 

17    "citizen" and replaced it with "community."  Can 

18    you explain why?

19                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Yeah.  Thank 

20    you, Mr. President.  Through you.  Just it's a 

21    broader term.  It's more inclusive.

22                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you, 

23    Mr. President.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

25    Oberacker, why do you rise?


                                                               1349

 1                 SENATOR OBERACKER:   Thank you, 

 2    Mr. President.  I was wondering if I could get a 

 3    answer to agriculture.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 5    Krueger, will you be responding?  

 6                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm going to fill 

 7    in for agriculture, yes.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Okay.  Do 

 9    you yield, Senator Krueger.

10                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I do.

11                 SENATOR OBERACKER:   Thank you.  

12    Through you, Mr. President.  And I would like it 

13    duly noted the fact that my question, 

14    Senator Krueger, will pertain to meat processing 

15    and meat processing plants.  

16                 And the fact that I am dressed as a 

17    cattleman today is strictly a coincidence that I 

18    would like duly noted.  

19                 So with that, Senator Krueger, the 

20    one-house fails to include funding for meat 

21    processing grants, and farmers have continued to 

22    express their concerns around the meat processing 

23    availability in this state.

24                 So my question is -- through you, 

25    Mr. President -- why did the Senate fail to 


                                                               1350

 1    include another round of funding for meat 

 2    processing grants?

 3                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

 4    Mr. President.  I will openly confess we 

 5    predicted this question, and Senator Hinchey and 

 6    I were able to have a conversation so that I 

 7    would be prepared for you.  So thank you for 

 8    asking the right question.  

 9                 (Laughter.)

10                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   So to answer, we 

11    created a funding stream previously to provide a 

12    grant program a few years ago to meet these 

13    needs, and it was a Senate add.  It's been very 

14    successful.  And in fact the funding was 

15    oversubscribed, so we did another year.  That 

16    hasn't gone out yet, but it's going out very, 

17    very soon.  So I'm just reading the notes.  

18                 The program was for the first time 

19    oversubscribed.  We did a second round.  It 

20    should be going out the door soon.  Ag and 

21    Markets did an RFP.  The Hudson Valley 

22    Agribusiness Development Corporation is who 

23    distributes the money.  And we have also funded 

24    them in the budget as well with a line item, to 

25    help them with ensuring that this program 


                                                               1351

 1    continues to move forward and that the money does 

 2    get spent.

 3                 And I suspect if we were to ask 

 4    Senator Hinchey on another day, she would say 

 5    sounds like we'll probably want to fight for this 

 6    yet again next year.

 7                 SENATOR OBERACKER:   Thank you, 

 8    Senator Krueger.  

 9                 On the reso, Mr. President.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

11    Oberacker on the resolution.

12                 SENATOR OBERACKER:   Thank you for 

13    that answer.

14                 Mr. President, you know, our farmers 

15    spend a lot of time, effort and of course money 

16    into getting their cattle ready to be sent to 

17    market.  Any day after that is a maintenance 

18    program, which is extremely expensive and would 

19    also be an issue when it comes to quality.  

20                 You know, we have a saying, we say 

21    no farms, no food.  Well, in this case, if we 

22    don't have the availability to process that food, 

23    we won't have the farms.  

24                 So with that I thank you, 

25    Senator Krueger, for that, and I would encourage 


                                                               1352

 1    all of us to get behind this type of movement.

 2                 So Mr. President, thank you very 

 3    much.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

 5    you, Senator Oberacker.

 6                 Senator Rhoads, why do you rise? 

 7                 SENATOR RHOADS:   To speak on the 

 8    resolution.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

10    Rhoads on the resolution.

11                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Thank you, 

12    Mr. President.  

13                 I want to thank all my colleagues 

14    for the debate today.  I did have some questions, 

15    but I'm just going to speak on the bill.

16                 I have heard the word "Washington" 

17    come out of the mouths of my colleagues on the 

18    other side of the aisle more than I've heard 

19    about Albany, more than I've heard about our 

20    constituents.  

21                 We're ignoring the problems that 

22    we're creating right here in this chamber.  We 

23    talk about policies that are coming out of 

24    Washington.  Let's take a look at what New York 

25    has done since 2019, when you have been in 


                                                               1353

 1    charge, where New York stands in comparison to 

 2    every other state.  

 3                 We have the second-highest total tax 

 4    burden between income, property and sales tax in 

 5    the country.  Highest individual tax burden in 

 6    the country.  Fourth-highest property tax burden 

 7    in the country.

 8                 Our residential electricity 

 9    rates are 50.7 percent higher than the national 

10    average.  Commercial electricity rates, 

11    61.6 percent higher than the national average.  

12    Home prices, 27 percent higher than the national 

13    average.  Auto insurance, 41 percent higher than 

14    the national average.  Childcare, 17.6 percent 

15    higher than the national average.  We have the 

16    second-worst business climate in the country.  

17    The Tax Foundation ranks us dead last -- dead 

18    last -- in tax competitiveness.  We're number one 

19    in outward migration.  We've lost a million of 

20    our residents since 2020.  One New Yorker leaves 

21    this state for somewhere else every two minutes 

22    and 23 seconds.  

23                 And what do we do with this bill 

24    today in our chamber?  We make it worse.  We 

25    raise taxes by $5.6 billion.  We raise taxes on 


                                                               1354

 1    small businesses.  We raise taxes on large 

 2    businesses.  Rather than telling New York City to 

 3    tighten its belt, we bend a knee to the whims of 

 4    our socialist mayor, providing direct aid and tax 

 5    authorizations for another $5.1 billion on top of 

 6    the taxes that we're already raising.  

 7                 We do nothing about Medicaid fraud.  

 8    Empire Center says that we spent $2.1 billion on 

 9    non-New Yorkers.  Three million people more are 

10    on the rolls than are financially eligible for 

11    Medicaid in New York State.

12                 We do nothing about NYSERDA.  

13    Democrats' radical environmental policies will 

14    cost the average New Yorker $4100 a year, will 

15    raise the price of a gallon of gas within 

16    five years by an extra $2.23 a gallon.  We do 

17    nothing about it.  

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

19    you, Senator Rhoads.  Appreciate your time, but 

20    we have reached that two-hour mark where debate 

21    is now closed.

22                 We'll call the roll at this time.

23                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   As we go 

25    into vote explanations, I remind the house that 


                                                               1355

 1    we are limited to two minutes per member to 

 2    explain your vote, and we will be looking to 

 3    maintain that two-minute time frame.

 4                 Senator Ryan to explain his vote.

 5                 SENATOR RYAN:   You know, I want to 

 6    talk a little bit about why I'm going to vote for 

 7    this, and talk about energy.  

 8                 I think it was said that with 

 9    respect to energy that not one thing was done for 

10    New Yorkers.  I disagree with that.  I take 

11    exception to that.  I believe that we are passing 

12    a bill that adds additional inappropriate utility 

13    expenses for its review for the Public Service 

14    Commission.  

15                 We are requiring utilities to return 

16    revenues in excess of their authorized return, 

17    and equity back to taxpayers.  And we're going to 

18    modify the Executive proposal to limit utility 

19    recovery of retroactive rate increase charges 

20    back to ratepayers.  I think that's a good thing.  

21    It's transparency.  And I'm dismayed as to why 

22    anybody would be voting against that.

23                 Second, I want to tell you a little 

24    bit about -- we talk a lot about energy prices 

25    and affordability, and I think there's a lot of 


                                                               1356

 1    conversations and I think, quite frankly, a lot 

 2    of misinformation.  And quite frankly, I think a 

 3    lot of it's disingenuous.  I had a little -- I'll 

 4    tell you a quick story, and this is why I'm 

 5    talking.  

 6                 I had a little epiphany over the 

 7    weekend.  I happened to be visiting my brother 

 8    and sister-in-law in the great state of 

 9    Pennsylvania.  And my brother-in-law happens to 

10    be in the banking business and the commercial 

11    lending business.  We talked about energy, we 

12    were talking a little bit of politics, and he 

13    said, You know, it's hard and a lot of people 

14    aren't borrowing so much money because -- 

15    businesses aren't, because of the costs of their 

16    natural gas in business and the utility bills.  

17                 The point to that story is I would 

18    remind everybody that Pennsylvania is having the 

19    same problem that we are.  And guess what they 

20    don't have?  The CLCPA that everybody keeps 

21    blaming that on.

22                 So I also want to talk about the 

23    NYSERDA report that everybody keeps talking 

24    about.  There's also another report, the New York 

25    State Independent System Operators, which talks 


                                                               1357

 1    about the price of utilities, the volatility of 

 2    the gas market.  And as we say back home, yes, 

 3    you don't have to be an economist to understand 

 4    that when the price of gas goes up and it's a 

 5    colder winter and you use more of it, then it's 

 6    going to go up.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

 8    you, Senator Ryan.

 9                 SENATOR RYAN:   Let's talk about the 

10    inconvenient truth {inaudible}.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

12    Tedisco to explain his vote for two minutes.

13                 SENATOR TEDISCO:   Thank you, 

14    Mr. President.

15                 My colleagues on that side of the 

16    aisle in 2019, I believe, and for the last seven, 

17    eight years, have had the trifecta with the 

18    Assembly.  You control all levers of power.  '21, 

19    '22, '23, '24, Joe Biden was the president.  It 

20    was budgets like this, over the last eight years, 

21    where you had full control -- and the taxpayers 

22    should know that -- of government, all levers of 

23    power.  That we were number one in outmigration, 

24    one of seven states that lost another 

25    representative in 2022, when Joe Biden and you 


                                                               1358

 1    were in total control.  We're projected to lose 

 2    two more representatives in 2032.  

 3                 And this is -- Mr. Rhoads talks 

 4    about -- Senator Rhoads -- this is interstate 

 5    migration in minutes, how fast are taxpayers 

 6    leaving states.  And we're 48th.  Every 2 minutes 

 7    and 23 seconds, somebody leaves the State of 

 8    New York.  Not to go to Disneyland or take a 

 9    vacation, to live in another state.

10                 Only California is one minute and 

11    44 seconds.  Forty-eight other states retain 

12    people.  

13                 That exodus is going to continue.  

14    You've all seen Casablanca where the sheriff 

15    walks in, Claude Rains:  "I'm shocked that 

16    there's gambling in this casino."  Humphrey 

17    Bogart.  

18                 You're shocked, with the Governor, 

19    that there's an affordability problem?  You 

20    created the affordability problem.  And I don't 

21    know, I sent this to all the media, I haven't 

22    heard a word about it.  If I was in a state where 

23    every two minutes or so people walked out, I 

24    would be talking about that.  And I think this is 

25    another thing that's going to create an exodus.  


                                                               1359

 1                 We're not going to be the 

 2    Empire State.  And it's a beautiful state.  

 3    People should be staying and coming here.  We're 

 4    going to be the empty state if budgets like this 

 5    continue, with more taxing and spending.

 6                 Thank you, Mr. President.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 8    Tedisco to be recorded in the negative.

 9                 Senator Murray to explain his vote 

10    for two minutes.

11                 SENATOR MURRAY:   Thank you, 

12    Mr. President.  I actually was going to get up 

13    and ask some questions, but I understood, we ran 

14    out of time.

15                 So I just want to point out one 

16    particular portion of the resolution, the Safe By 

17    Design Act.  And listen, when we talk about 

18    business and small business and the things that 

19    we impose on them, I don't think it's done for 

20    nefarious reasons or bad reasons.  In fact, I 

21    think it's -- for the most part, it's good 

22    intentions.  But it's the understanding of what 

23    the implications those good intentions have.  

24                 So here's what this says it is.  By 

25    the way, all of these pages are describing this 


                                                               1360

 1    act.  But it says privacy by default.  No 

 2    operator shall offer a covered platform in the 

 3    state without conducting age assurance to 

 4    reasonably determine whether a user is a covered 

 5    minor.  

 6                 So we go to what's a covered 

 7    platform.  Well, that shall mean an online 

 8    platform.  Well, what do we mean by online 

 9    platform?  Well, that shall mean a public or 

10    semipublic website, online service, online 

11    application or mobile application that -- and 

12    then we go on to all these subsections.  

13                 At the end of the day, I'm a small 

14    business owner going, Wait a minute, am I going 

15    to have to do this?  Am I going to have to 

16    implement this?  How much is it going to cost?  

17    How quickly do I have to do it?  If I don't, 

18    what's the penalty?

19                 This is what we do to 

20    small businesses in New York over and over and 

21    over again.

22                 For that reason, and the increases 

23    in taxes and everything else, I'll be voting no 

24    on this resolution.

25                 Thank you, Mr. President.


                                                               1361

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 2    Murray to be recorded in the negative.

 3                 Senator May to explain her vote for 

 4    two minutes.

 5                 SENATOR MAY:   Thank you, 

 6    Mr. President.

 7                 It has been quaint hearing our 

 8    colleagues across the aisle preach fiscal 

 9    responsibility and affordability while they and 

10    their party cede absolute unchecked power to a 

11    man who is literally burning through billions of 

12    dollars a day with an illegal war, with masked 

13    thugs in our streets, with building concentration 

14    camps for immigrant children, lining his own 

15    pockets and the pockets of his billionaire 

16    buddies while he's picking the pockets of my 

17    constituents, the farmers and small business 

18    owners who have to navigate between his tariffs 

19    and trade wars and now spiking costs of gas.

20                 And the institutions that are 

21    linchpins of many of our upstate economies -- 

22    higher education, hospitals -- he is targeting 

23    them with precision, trying to ruin their 

24    business models.

25                 With this budget document, we are 


                                                               1362

 1    asserting that New York is still a civilized 

 2    state where we feed the hungry, house the 

 3    homeless, care for children, and invest in 

 4    infrastructure, agriculture, environmental 

 5    protection, science and public health.  And where 

 6    we defend our immigrant neighbors, trans young 

 7    people like my son, and the rule of law.

 8                 I vote aye.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

10    May to be recorded in the affirmative.

11                 Senator Harckham to explain his vote 

12    on the resolution.

13                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Thank you very 

14    much, Mr. President.

15                 First I want to align my comments 

16    with Senator Ryan.  Thank you very much, sir.  

17    Couldn't have said it better.

18                 Just a couple of quick points.  This 

19    $2.4 billion that we keep hearing about that 

20    needs to be returned to ratepayers, it's 

21    fictitious.  We should not be selling 

22    red herrings to our constituents.  That money is 

23    accounted for.  It's going to programs.  

24                 Just because it's sitting in an 

25    account does not mean it's not targeted for 


                                                               1363

 1    programs.  We can look at state accounts and find 

 2    tens of billions of dollars sitting there.  They 

 3    just haven't gotten out the door yet.

 4                 The second point I would say is that 

 5    we are taking energy affordability very seriously 

 6    in here.  We have a number of measures by 

 7    Senator May and by Senator Hinchey and others -- 

 8    or Senator Mayer, actually, targeting how the PSC 

 9    structures rates.  We're taking a long-term 

10    structural approach.  

11                 And then as Senator Parker 

12    mentioned, through clean energy, by restoring the 

13    NY-SUN program we will be saving ratepayers 

14    $1 billion annually because we will be providing 

15    them more affordable clean energy.  

16                 As has been said many times on this 

17    floor, it is the price of natural gas that is 

18    driving the high prices of energy.  There is no 

19    proof that it is the policies of the CLCPA, 

20    because as Senator Parker has mentioned, the 

21    Governor hasn't even started implementation yet.

22                 I will be voting aye on this 

23    resolution.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

25    Harckham to be recorded in the affirmative.


                                                               1364

 1                 Senator Bailey to explain his vote.

 2                 SENATOR BAILEY:   Thank you, 

 3    Mr. President.

 4                 I'm grateful for this opportunity to 

 5    be able to speak on the resolution.  

 6                 I just wanted to correct one thing 

 7    on the -- from the prior debate.  And I do thank 

 8    Senator Helming and my colleagues for debate.  

 9                 We spoke about the sweep of funds 

10    for the -- out of the death insurance, fraud 

11    prevention.  That was rejected explicitly in the 

12    one-house.  

13                 And the reason why we rejected that 

14    sweep is because we do value making sure that we 

15    do combat fraud.  And it's the beginning of a 

16    conversation.  The one-house is a statement of 

17    our conference's values, led by the great 

18    Andrea Stewart-Cousins.  And our values are that 

19    we do want to save New Yorkers money.  We do want 

20    to get to the heart of affordability.  We do want 

21    to make sure that New Yorkers are saving more.  

22                 If you note what we didn't have a 

23    conversation about, I guess for good reason, is 

24    that anything that was in the Executive Budget 

25    that related to automatic discounts, we accepted, 


                                                               1365

 1    because we think that New Yorkers should be 

 2    getting more discounts, more reporting, more 

 3    data.  We accepted those provisions.  

 4                 When it came to the Article VII 

 5    language, that came to what defines or what may 

 6    happen with auto insurance, we wanted to have a 

 7    deeper conversation.  Because, Mr. President, 

 8    New Yorkers are facing mental health reasons, 

 9    financial reasons.  And you know, we need to make 

10    sure that we're taking care of New Yorkers.

11                 So -- and the last thing I'll say is 

12    that it was alleged about hope.  In our 

13    one-house, we don't talk about hope.  We spoke 

14    about a commitment.  There is a commitment to 

15    have a conversation with all stakeholders, from 

16    the second floor, insurance, lawyers, anybody 

17    that has a role.  So there's no hope, there's a 

18    commitment.  And we commit to making sure that we 

19    do our part on this side of the aisle to make 

20    sure that we get through this budget process with 

21    real results for affordability.  

22                 I vote aye, Mr. President.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

24    Bailey to be recorded in the affirmative.

25                 Senator Rhoads to explain his vote.


                                                               1366

 1                 SENATOR RHOADS:   It's ironic to -- 

 2    I'm back.  It's ironic to hear my colleagues 

 3    talking about affordability when in reality your 

 4    policies are making the state less affordable.  

 5                 It's great to talk about the hungry 

 6    and the homeless when your policies are creating 

 7    more hungry and homeless.

 8                 You're spending, in this budget -- 

 9    when you took charge, we spent $164 billion as a 

10    state.  This budget will be just a tick under 

11    $270 billion, a 61 percent increase in spending 

12    by the state.

13                 Inflation is at 2.4 percent this 

14    year.  You're going to raise operating spending 

15    by 10.8 percent -- quadruple, quadruple the rate 

16    of inflation.  And at the same time you ignore 

17    policies introduced by this side of the aisle 

18    that would actually help the issue.

19                 HCRA taxes account for 5 to 

20    6 billion dollars annually.  We have a bill by 

21    Senator Gallivan that would repeal those taxes 

22    and actually save the average family 1400 on 

23    healthcare premiums per year.  

24                 No income taxes on overtime, by 

25    Senator Martins.  Senator Weber, a three-year 


                                                               1367

 1    freeze on property taxes that would save every 

 2    one of our constituents, every one of our 

 3    property owners money.  

 4                 Myself, with the single largest tax 

 5    cut in the history of New York State, which could 

 6    be paid for by slowing the rate of growth to the 

 7    same 2 percent cap that every other municipality 

 8    lives by, that would save the average taxpayer 

 9    $5,000 a year.  

10                 Those solutions you don't touch.  

11    It's more taxes, it's more spending, and it's 

12    exacerbating the affordability death spiral that 

13    the policies of this chamber over the course of 

14    the last eight years have put New York in.  And 

15    this budget just throttles it up.  

16                 I'll be voting no.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

18    Rhoads to be recorded in the negative.

19                 Senator Weik to explain her vote.

20                 SENATOR WEIK:   Thank you, 

21    Mr. President.  We've heard concerns about the 

22    situations in Iran driving gas prices up.  Yet 

23    there's no proposal for a gas tax holiday in this 

24    budget.  My colleagues across the aisle have 

25    boasted about how they're making New York more 


                                                               1368

 1    affordable for New Yorkers.  But this budget only 

 2    increases taxes and spending.

 3                 We proposed a bill that actually 

 4    slashes taxes for New Yorkers and even eliminates 

 5    income taxes for most New Yorkers when it's fully 

 6    phased in.  It's called the Taxpayer Rescue Plan, 

 7    by Senator Rhoads.  Yet it's nowhere in this 

 8    budget.

 9                 This budget is an increase of 

10    11.5 billion from last year's enacted budget, yet 

11    there's no relief at all on the massive energy 

12    increases caused by the CLCPA.  No plan to 

13    eliminate fraud, waste and abuse of taxpayer 

14    dollars.  An $11.5 billion increase, and yet the 

15    basic needs of most New Yorkers are still not 

16    being met.

17                 This is another budget full of 

18    mismanaged special-interest funding, and I vote 

19    no.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

21    Weik to be recorded in the negative.

22                 Senator Martins to explain his vote.

23                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Thank you, 

24    Mr. President.

25                 Mr. President, this document is not 


                                                               1369

 1    a serious document.  I think everyone in this 

 2    chamber, including the Majority, knows it's not 

 3    going to see the light of day.  You've promised 

 4    everything to everyone all at the same time.  And 

 5    eventually, between now and hopefully April 1st, 

 6    you'll turn around and you'll tell everyone that 

 7    it's either the Governor's fault or somebody 

 8    else's fault that you're not going to be able to 

 9    actually write that check.  

10                 You've increased spending by 

11    $16.1 billion year over year for state 

12    operations.  Think about that for a second.  If 

13    we could actually make this state more affordable 

14    by increasing spending, you've done it.  But we 

15    all know that's not true, because we all hear 

16    from our constituents just how unaffordable the 

17    state is right now.

18                 So what's your answer?  You want to 

19    tax corporations.  I've said it before:  

20    Corporations don't pay taxes.  People pay taxes.  

21    And they pay all of them.  Taxing corporations is 

22    just what politicians do as a sneaky way to pass 

23    taxes on to people.  Not right.

24                 Own it.  You're not going to be 

25    affordable by just simply increasing spending.


                                                               1370

 1                 Mr. President, I vote no.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 3    Martins to be recorded in the negative.

 4                 Senator Chan to explain his vote on 

 5    the resolution.

 6                 SENATOR CHAN:   Thank you, 

 7    Mr. President.  

 8                 In the short two minutes that I 

 9    have, I hope I can cover enough and I hope I'm 

10    tall enough to address this tall order of a 

11    resolution.

12                 I speak on behalf of the people of 

13    southern Brooklyn.  The cost of living upon us is 

14    extremely high.  It is very stressful.  We are 

15    borderlining on struggling.  We have utility 

16    bills that are outrageously high.  And over the 

17    past six, seven years I believe they've gone 

18    upwards of 40 percent or so.  

19                 Here we have a golden opportunity to 

20    give our ratepayers a tax holiday, save them 

21    25 to 30 percent over the next one year.  In some 

22    cases, that can amount to two, three, four 

23    thousand dollars.  Yet nowhere in this resolution 

24    does it address that.

25                 My constituents are also very 


                                                               1371

 1    concerned -- right now in Brooklyn we pay the 

 2    highest auto insurance rates possibly in the 

 3    country.  We have no provisions to address that.  

 4                 And when we try to address it, we 

 5    talk about insurance fraud, but we never talk 

 6    about uninsured motorists.  Because I can say 

 7    that almost every accident in my district 

 8    involves some kind of uninsured motorist.  As a 

 9    result, the ratepayers of insurance premiums have 

10    to pick up that tab through their own policy.

11                 My constituents cringe every time 

12    our mayor speaks.  They feel that they're being 

13    held hostage.  Every time he speaks, my 

14    constituents feel that here comes the kicker, 

15    we're going to get fleeced with something else.  

16    We feel that the mayor is shaking down the state, 

17    the if he doesn't get what he wants, he's going 

18    to take it out upon the taxpayers of New York 

19    City and the residents.  

20                 So on that reason, my vote is no.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

22    Chan to be recorded in the negative.

23                 Senator Stec to explain his vote.

24                 SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

25    Mr. President, to explain my no vote on the 


                                                               1372

 1    Senate's one-house budget bill.

 2                 This budget is proposing an increase 

 3    from last year's 254 billion to a proposed 

 4    $270 billion.  That's clearly not addressing our 

 5    affordability issue.

 6                 There are two key components that 

 7    could have made a difference to every 

 8    New Yorker's everyday lives that are completely 

 9    ignored in your one-house budget bill.  

10                 Energy.  In 2019, New York State was 

11    136 percent the national average on energy costs.  

12    In 2024, it is 152 percent of the national 

13    average.  So this is against -- we are an outlier 

14    against the national average.  And oh, by the 

15    way, those are over the Biden years, not the 

16    Trump years.  

17                 One-point-four million ratepayers 

18    are in arrears at least 60 days or more as of 

19    December.  That number could easily be twice that 

20    now.  That's one in four New Yorkers are 

21    potentially already behind in their energy 

22    payments.  And yet -- and that's according to the 

23    Public Service Commission, Rory Christian.  Not 

24    our guy, the Governor's and your guy.

25                 A $4,000 increase for every annual 


                                                               1373

 1    energy cost for upstate homeowners, and $5.25 a 

 2    gallon for gas when the CLCPA is implemented.  

 3    That's according to NYSERDA, Doreen Harris.  Your 

 4    guy, not our guy.  These are your numbers, not 

 5    our numbers.  

 6                 And yet this budget proposes to do 

 7    nothing about the energy costs.  Zero.

 8                 The other thing that's completely 

 9    ignored is Medicaid.  We spend $49 billion a year 

10    in this state on Medicaid.  You've got the 

11    Comptroller saying you've got a Medicaid fraud 

12    problem.  There are some estimates that have been 

13    done on the outside that say that that number is 

14    $20 billion a year in Medicaid fraud.  

15                 Nothing in your proposal to do that.  

16    If we fixed even a fraction of the Medicaid fraud 

17    and you did something about energy, those are two 

18    areas that you would make affordability a reality 

19    for New York.  Because I'm not sure this body 

20    should use language if you don't know the 

21    definitions of the words.  

22                 I'll be voting no.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

24    Stec to be recorded in the negative.

25                 Senator Weber to explain his vote on 


                                                               1374

 1    the resolution.

 2                 SENATOR WEBER:   Thank you, 

 3    Mr. President.

 4                 You know, every budget year we start 

 5    off in this chamber talking about affordability, 

 6    saying we need to make New York State more 

 7    affordable.  And after every budget the last 

 8    number of years, we said we addressed New York 

 9    State's affordability.  And yet here we are.  

10                 Now, Mr. President, I think I might 

11    be a couple of years older than you.  But, you 

12    know, when I see bloated budgets it always 

13    reminds me of that Wendy's commercial from the 

14    early 1980s, "Where's the Beef"?  

15                 We found the beef.  It's $16 billion 

16    more than last year's -- the current year's 

17    fiscal budget.  That's where the beef is.

18                 This budget raises taxes by $6 

19    billion.  Now, I thought we were going to deal 

20    with the tax issue, give serious middle-class tax 

21    cuts.  Maybe it's on a page that I didn't get.  

22                 But, you know, this budget is not 

23    giving people the reasons to stay in this state.  

24    You talk about college-age kids like my daughter, 

25    talk about younger generations of my kids in 


                                                               1375

 1    high school, you talk about retirees.  What in 

 2    this budget document is going to give them 

 3    reasons to stay?  It's not.  And it just becomes 

 4    more and more unaffordable.  

 5                 We had an opportunity to deal with 

 6    utility relief.  It's not in here.  And 

 7    unfortunately people, as we heard earlier, are 

 8    falling more and more behind on their utility 

 9    bills without some of the changes that are going 

10    to happen.  

11                 So, you know, it's unfortunate, it's 

12    a missed opportunity.  I have the same hope that 

13    we'll get this budget done on April 1st, so we 

14    have a couple of weeks to get this fixed.  But 

15    we've really got to do a better job than this.  

16                 I'll be voting no on this 

17    resolution, and I encourage my colleagues to do 

18    the same.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

20    Weber to be recorded in the negative.

21                 Senator Stavisky to explain her vote 

22    on the resolution.

23                 SENATOR STAVISKY:   Thank you, 

24    Mr. President.

25                 I'd like to remind my colleagues on 


                                                               1376

 1    the other side of the aisle that if you vote no 

 2    on this budget, you are voting against a number 

 3    of important issues.  

 4                 For one thing, you are voting 

 5    against the construction money, the capital 

 6    budget for SUNY and CUNY.  Desperately needed.  

 7    You are voting against SUNY and CUNY Reconnect, 

 8    which provides a wonderful program of free 

 9    tuition for people between the ages of 25 and 55 

10    in high-need areas of study.

11                 And you are voting against the no 

12    tuition increase that we imposed when we took the 

13    Majority in 2019.  There has not been an increase 

14    in tuition for your constituents since then, when 

15    in the past there was -- and when you controlled 

16    this chamber, there was a $200 increase every 

17    single year.  And it was borne by your 

18    constituents.  

19                 I proudly vote aye.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

21    Stavisky to be recorded in the affirmative.

22                 Senator Walczyk to explain his vote.

23                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Thank you, 

24    Mr. President.

25                 You can't spend your way to solve 


                                                               1377

 1    the problem of affordability.  If you could, 

 2    New York State would already be the most 

 3    affordable state in the union.  And you know 

 4    that.  

 5                 You've proposed a $16 billion 

 6    increase over last year's budget just in your 

 7    one-house budget resolution.  That accounts to 

 8    11 percent in increased state spending over last 

 9    year.  People's salaries haven't gone up 

10    11 percent.  Their wages haven't gone up 

11    11 percent.  

12                 You've included $500 million in new 

13    funding for New York City public housing and 

14    $500 million in new funding for New York City 

15    homelessness.  

16                 I was looking at the school aid, 

17    expecting that you would invest in our next 

18    generation.  I saw $285.3 million over what the 

19    Governor proposed in Foundation Aid.  My school 

20    districts are hurting with energy costs.  They're 

21    concerned about the e-bus mandate.  But I didn't 

22    see anything repealing that in your budget 

23    resolution.

24                 Their health insurance costs have 

25    skyrocketed, and they've got a lot of concerns 


                                                               1378

 1    about special education costs in their schools.  

 2    And yet for hold-harmless schools in the State of 

 3    New York -- and if you don't know, that's 

 4    two-thirds of the schools in the State of 

 5    New York -- you're proposing a 2 percent increase 

 6    in Foundation Aid.  While you do an 11 percent 

 7    increase in overall state spending.  So you've 

 8    showed me where your priorities are.  

 9                 This falls onto property taxpayers, 

10    because school districts are going to have to go 

11    out -- unless they're cutting teachers from their 

12    school district, they're going to have to go out 

13    to the property taxpayers and ask them to pay a 

14    lot more.  And it hurts our youth.  So I'd ask 

15    you to consider that as you go on in budget 

16    negotiations.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

18    you, Senator --

19                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   I'm not voting on 

20    a budget resolution today that's going to become 

21    law.  This is your answer --

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

23    you, Senator Walczyk, your two minutes is up.

24                 To be recorded in the negative.

25                 Senator Kavanagh to explain his 


                                                               1379

 1    vote.

 2                 SENATOR KAVANAGH:   Thank you, 

 3    Mr. President.  I'm very proud to support this 

 4    resolution today.  

 5                 We've had a lot of discussion today 

 6    on the clean energy transition that we are 

 7    investing in.  I'm very proud that we're doing a 

 8    billion dollars for Sustainable Futures and 

 9    thermal energy networks and the EmPower program 

10    and some others.

11                 I want to just highlight a few of 

12    the housing aspects of the budget, as the chair. 

13                 This proposal includes $3 billion in 

14    new operating and capital subsidies for housing.  

15    That includes really large investments in our 

16    public housing both in New York City and 

17    throughout the state, $100 million to support our 

18    Mitchell-Lama developments, and numerous other 

19    programs that this house has championed, 

20    including block-by-block infill programs that are 

21    building housing in all of our communities 

22    throughout the state, and the Small Rental 

23    Development Initiative, which is working in 

24    smaller towns and villages in our rural 

25    communities.


                                                               1380

 1                 There's also a very large investment 

 2    that will be facilitated by this budget in the 

 3    capital needs of both co-ops and condo buildings 

 4    and rental buildings in New York by expanding and 

 5    reforming the J-51 tax abatement program.  Our 

 6    proposal today is significantly more generous to 

 7    the property owners than the Executive proposal, 

 8    and I'm sure that's something that we'll be 

 9    negotiating.

10                 We also recognize that people need 

11    services to keep them in their homes.  We are 

12    investing $40 million in the Homeowner Protection 

13    Program and $60 million for tenants who are 

14    facing eviction.  We're investing $30 million in 

15    our Neighborhood and Rural Preservation Programs.  

16                 And finally, a big continued focus 

17    on rental assistance here:  $250 million for the 

18    Housing Access Voucher Program, which has been 

19    successfully launched in the last couple of 

20    weeks, and a separate program to pay the rent 

21    when people are facing eviction.  And the 

22    eviction rates in a lot of our communities are 

23    exceeding 10 percent.  That is a program that we 

24    launched last year and has already kept almost 

25    1600 households in their homes.


                                                               1381

 1                 With that, and time is short, I will 

 2    wrap up today just to say thank you for your -- 

 3    for everyone's support for this, and I look 

 4    forward to continuing negotiations.  

 5                 And I vote aye.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

 7    you.  Senator Kavanagh to be recorded in the 

 8    affirmative.

 9                 Senator Zellner to explain his vote 

10    on the resolution, two minutes and one second for 

11    your birthday.  

12                 (Laughter.)

13                 SENATOR ZELLNER:   Thank you, 

14    Mr. President.  

15                 I just got here, not 2019, but right 

16    now New York State is under attack from the 

17    federal government.  A trillion and a half 

18    dollars cut across this country for healthcare.  

19    Millions cut from subsidies in our own state that 

20    help our most vulnerable who need food subsidies.  

21    And trillions taken from New Yorkers through 

22    illegal tariffs.  

23                 So we have a job to do here, I 

24    guess, and it's to help maintain the services and 

25    programs that make this the Empire State and to 


                                                               1382

 1    help take care of the most vulnerable that the 

 2    federal government seems to have abandoned.  

 3                 And I think this budget does that, 

 4    so I vote aye.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 6    Zellner to be recorded in the affirmative.

 7                 Senator Borrello to explain his 

 8    vote.

 9                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you, 

10    Mr. President.

11                 You know, while this debate was 

12    going on I actually got a text from a friend of 

13    mine, Tom Daniels, who owns Tom's Family 

14    Restaurant in my town, a great place to get a 

15    meal at a really low price.  

16                 His -- he sent me a copy of his 

17    electric -- his utility bill, $3,891, which is 

18    almost double what it was last month.  

19                 Now, I heard a lot of excuses as to 

20    why this is happening in New York.  But there was 

21    a great article actually in Syracuse.com, believe 

22    it or not, which I consider to be a pretty 

23    left-leaning publication, that says that this is 

24    really a uniquely New York problem.  From 2021 to 

25    2024, when almost every other state's utilities 


                                                               1383

 1    were dropping, New York's were increasing.  

 2                 And why are we having the problems 

 3    we're having?  Because we don't have enough 

 4    baseload power.  We don't have baseload power 

 5    because you've told the power companies not to 

 6    invest here.  You said by 2040, that's it.  Who's 

 7    going to invest billions of dollars to modernize 

 8    equipment when you're saying they're going to be 

 9    obsolete in 2040?  

10                 This is a uniquely New York problem, 

11    and we've done nothing about energy prices in 

12    this budget.

13                 Another issue, Medicaid.  You all 

14    want to blame the federal government.  We have 

15    billions upon billions of dollars of Medicaid 

16    fraud, waste and abuse that has not been 

17    addressed.  And the Medicaid Inspector General?  

18    He's kind of like the Maytag repairman:  Not 

19    doing much.  

20                 If you fix the fraud, a fraction of 

21    it, if you fixed a fraction of the fraud, we 

22    could stop everything that we've lost from the 

23    federal government impacting any single 

24    New Yorker.  But you won't.  Why?  Because too 

25    many people are profiting off of that fraud.  


                                                               1384

 1    That's the problem.  

 2                 This budget itself is fraudulent, 

 3    and I'll be voting no on this resolution.

 4                 Thank you.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 6    Borrello to be recorded in the negative.

 7                 Senator Skoufis to explain his vote.

 8                 SENATOR SKOUFIS:   Thank you very 

 9    much, Mr. President.

10                 I certainly understand the loyal 

11    opposition's job is to identify and raise 

12    concerns and criticize, even when quite frankly 

13    sometimes there isn't anything to actually 

14    criticize on the merits.  

15                 I find it strange that there is this 

16    equating of spending more money with 

17    unaffordability.  And so perhaps, you know, there 

18    are some colleagues here who when they go home 

19    and they criticize additional spending, go talk 

20    to the young family who has a 4-year-old who just 

21    saved $15,000 because we're increasing our 

22    investment, our spending, in universal pre-K.

23                 Go talk to a young family who has a 

24    zero-to-3-year-old who's going to be part of the 

25    childcare expansion -- and by the way, we have to 


                                                               1385

 1    do a lot more outside of New York City.  But talk 

 2    to one of those families who's going to save 20, 

 3    $25,000 from their household budget thanks to the 

 4    investments that we are making.

 5                 We've heard my colleague 

 6    Senator Kavanagh talk about various programs, 

 7    including an expansion of the Housing Access 

 8    Voucher Program.  Talk to one of those families 

 9    who's going to save tens of thousands of dollars 

10    because of the investments that we are making.

11                 And yes, the Governor came out with 

12    a 1 percent baseline in Foundation Aid.  We're 

13    doubling that.  Could we do more?  Yeah, sure, I 

14    guess if we're sort of, you know, pretending in 

15    terms of putting together our own budgets and, 

16    you know, living in a fantasy land, it could be 

17    10 percent or 20 percent or 50 percent.  

18                 But the simple matter of fact is we 

19    doubled what the Governor proposed, and that is a 

20    savings, would be a savings to property taxpayers 

21    who don't have to backfill that hole, that would 

22    be left with only a 1 percent baseline in 

23    Foundation Aid.  

24                 And so for all these reasons and 

25    many more, I'm proud of the investments that we 


                                                               1386

 1    make.  These are investments in affordability.  

 2    Many of these programs bring down costs for our 

 3    families.  And for those reasons, I vote yes.  

 4                 Thank you, Mr. President.  

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 6    Skoufis to be recorded in the affirmative.

 7                 Senator Krueger to explain her vote 

 8    on the resolution.

 9                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you so 

10    much.  

11                 First off, I want to thank all my 

12    colleagues for their participation.  I want to 

13    associate myself with pretty much everything this 

14    side of the aisle said today.

15                 But I want to highlight my point.  

16    People are talking about affordability and fraud.  

17    Those are important issues.  We're looking at it 

18    the wrong way, though.  Because I lived through 

19    all the years of Republican majority rule where 

20    everyone was obsessed about Medicaid fraud and 

21    they kept saying, all these people are illegally 

22    using Medicaid.  

23                 So what did we do?  We did a bunch 

24    of Medicaid fraud reform.  Except nobody noticed 

25    Medicaid fraud is the medical institutions, not 


                                                               1387

 1    individuals signing up for extra healthcare.  

 2    It's the medical institutions.  

 3                 So please be aware if we're going to 

 4    go after Medicaid fraud, we're going after our 

 5    hospitals, our nursing homes, our doctors, all of 

 6    our healthcare providers.  That's where Medicaid 

 7    fraud takes place.  

 8                 And I'll be damned if I'm going to 

 9    defend them.  I don't want anybody to go through 

10    fraud.  I don't want to have to pay for fraud.

11                 Car insurance.  We had a hearing.  

12    We learned that the car insurance companies are 

13    claiming they're on the verge of bankruptcy when 

14    they're having some of the largest revenues in 

15    the history of insurance.  There's some kind of 

16    fraud here, but it's not the occasional fake 

17    lawsuit, which then doesn't get through the 

18    courts anyway so isn't really the cause of the 

19    skyrocketing insurance.  We have too much fraud.  

20                 And then we've all been really busy, 

21    but some of my colleagues had a hearing this week 

22    on white-collar fraud.  Do you know that 

23    according to the federal government -- before 

24    this president -- it's the number-one cost driver 

25    for everyone in this country.  Over a 


                                                               1388

 1    trillion dollars a year of corporate fraud.  

 2                 With a whole series of federal 

 3    agencies who were supposedly going after it.  

 4    Guess what?  It's no longer in their job 

 5    descriptions a year later.  We're not even trying 

 6    to go after fraud.

 7                 So you want to deal with 

 8    affordability?  Go after corporate fraud.  

 9                 And then last night, by accident I 

10    was reading about that the IRS, in the last year, 

11    has basically ended any investigations of the 

12    ultrawealthy and corporate fraud in not paying 

13    their taxes.  I'm always saying it here:  If they 

14    don't pay their taxes, whoever they are, we pay 

15    their taxes.  

16                 So you want to do something about 

17    tax rates?  Please.  Let's do something about 

18    people committing fraud, corporate fraud not 

19    paying their taxes.  It's ridiculous.  

20                 And finally, just because I've been 

21    here forever, I remember all the years of 

22    Republican control where everybody always talked 

23    about we're not raising taxes.  So there's two 

24    models.  There is borrow-and-spend.  That was the 

25    Republican model.  Kept borrowing and 


                                                               1389

 1    skyrocketing long-term costs of the state for the 

 2    next generation and the next generation.  

 3                 Or tax-and-spend.  Personally, I 

 4    want to stand here and be able to justify why we 

 5    do sometimes have to tax people who we're taxing, 

 6    but then be able to say we're not just kicking 

 7    the can down the road for the next generations to 

 8    have to pay what we spend.

 9                 So I proudly vote yes today.  

10                 Thank you, Mr. President.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

12    Krueger to be recorded in the affirmative.

13                 Majority Leader Andrea 

14    Stewart-Cousins to close.

15                 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS:   Thank you 

16    so much, Mr. President.  

17                 And of course before I begin I want 

18    to thank my deputy leader, Senator Mike Gianaris, 

19    for once again helping guide through the debates 

20    of the day.  

21                 I also want to thank his 

22    counterpart -- is this your birthday, too?  Ah, 

23    Happy Birthday.  This is probably not your 

24    birthday present as --

25                 (Laughter.)


                                                               1390

 1                 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS:   But we're 

 2    going to get out early, so you're okay.

 3                 So thank you, Senator Lanza.  

 4                 And of course to the Minority 

 5    Leader, Bob Ortt and to the ranker, Tom O'Mara.  

 6                 And of course special 

 7    acknowledgement to the wonderful Senator Krueger, 

 8    who again -- countless hours spent on trying to 

 9    get through what we know is only the beginning 

10    of, you know, one of the most important things we 

11    do here.

12                 I also want to thank Governor Hochul 

13    and Speaker Heastie for our year-round 

14    partnership.  And again, I'm always grateful that 

15    we are collectively rowing in the same direction.

16                 I want to offer my deep gratitude to 

17    our staffs on both sides of the aisle.  Because, 

18    you know, none of this is really easy.  But I 

19    particularly want to thank my senior staff and 

20    their crew, starting with Jonathan Lang -- where 

21    are you, Jonathan?  Back there somewhere, okay -- 

22    the secretary of the Majority Counsel and 

23    Program, Dorothy Powell, counsel.  Chris Friend, 

24    brand-new Finance Secretary.  Did a great job for 

25    your first time out.  Of course Mike Murphy, our 


                                                               1391

 1    communications director.  Emily Bruggeman, deputy 

 2    director of intergovernmental affairs.  And all 

 3    the staff members whose hard work and dedication 

 4    made our one-house possible.  

 5                 So let's give them applause.

 6                 (Applause.)

 7                 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS:   Thank you 

 8    so much.  Thank you.  

 9                 And of course I want to thank my 

10    amazing Senate Majority Conference, who have 

11    spent untold hours not only in hearings but, you 

12    know, on Zooms.  And thank you always for your 

13    invaluable input -- I know I have to look back 

14    here, and there -- for your invaluable input and 

15    for your constant advocacy, not only on behalf of 

16    your own districts but on behalf of all the 

17    people of New York State.

18                 Today we're advancing a one-house 

19    budget resolution that defends our values, lowers 

20    costs for families across multiple sectors, and 

21    delivers for all New Yorkers across this state.

22                 Families are facing high costs.  

23    Municipalities are being asked to do more with 

24    less.  And, once again, we are seeing harmful 

25    actions out of Washington that threaten essential 


                                                               1392

 1    programs people rely on every day.

 2                 We've seen cuts to healthcare, to 

 3    food assistance, to public benefits and other 

 4    basic supports that help keep families afloat.  

 5    New Yorkers are under pressure, and I hear from 

 6    constituents every day in the same way you do 

 7    about the stresses they feel in order to keep 

 8    their lights on and to keep food on the table.  

 9                 I talk to young people who are 

10    uncertain about their job prospects, and they're 

11    worried about whether they can pursue higher 

12    education.

13                 Every year throughout this process, 

14    I say and we say the budgets are about our 

15    priorities.  And this fiscally responsible and 

16    balanced budget resolution reflects our 

17    priorities.  It protects essential services.  It 

18    supports local communities.  It invests in 

19    long-term economic opportunity.  And it does ask 

20    those who can most afford it to contribute more 

21    so we can continue meeting the needs of working 

22    people across this state.

23                 Our responsible revenue measures 

24    ensure the wealthiest individuals, large 

25    corporations and luxury industries pay their fair 


                                                               1393

 1    share.  At a time when federal threats and 

 2    economic uncertainty are putting enormous 

 3    pressure on our state and our local governments, 

 4    we're taking responsible action to generate 

 5    sustainable revenue so municipalities can 

 6    continue delivering vital services and families 

 7    can get the support they need.

 8                 We're also continuing our 

 9    affordability agenda with targeted investments 

10    that help New Yorkers lower everyday costs.  That 

11    includes working towards universal childcare, 

12    which you heard over and over again today.

13                 Expanding access across the entire 

14    state, supporting the childcare workforce with a 

15    $500 million investment, beginning implementation 

16    of 2-Care seats in New York City, and helping 

17    ensure that families can actually access the care 

18    they need.

19                 We're building on the work we've 

20    already done to lower energy costs, strengthening 

21    energy affordability.  New Yorkers have long been 

22    burdened by some of the highest utility rates in 

23    the country, with little to no transparency about 

24    how these rates are determined.

25                 And this cold winter has only 


                                                               1394

 1    exacerbated the strain these high bills place on 

 2    businesses, yes, and on families struggling to 

 3    keep their heat on.  This budget invests hundreds 

 4    of millions of dollars in energy affordability 

 5    and advances utility reforms to provide greater 

 6    transparency, greater accountability, and 

 7    fairness for ratepayers.  

 8                 New Yorkers deserve utility bills 

 9    they can understand, a process they can trust, 

10    and a government that is willing to stand up for 

11    them when costs go too high.

12                 We also continue our strong 

13    commitment to education and youth opportunity 

14    with greater investments into our school 

15    districts to provide the proper resources so that 

16    every child, regardless of their zip code, has 

17    the opportunity to learn, to grow, and to 

18    succeed -- not just during the school day, but 

19    beyond it.  

20                 We support expanding the success of 

21    universal school meals by growing the 

22    Farm-to-School program to include breakfast and 

23    snacks.  

24                 We're strengthening Foundation Aid 

25    with additional investments for high-needs 


                                                               1395

 1    students, increasing Transportation Aid, 

 2    supporting universal pre-K, investing in 

 3    community schools, after-school programming, 

 4    tutoring, libraries, civic education, youth 

 5    employment and, yes, youth sports.  

 6                 We're also expanding higher 

 7    education opportunities.  This budget increases 

 8    financial aid for students, supports a workforce 

 9    training program, invests in SUNY, CUNY and 

10    community colleges.  We're providing millions in 

11    tuition assistance, making it easier for our 

12    students to access this crucial help.  

13                 We're expanding nursing programs 

14    across at state, supporting a bilingual educator 

15    pipeline.  Higher education remains one of the 

16    clearest pathways to opportunity, and we must 

17    keep this path open and affordable even as the 

18    federal government cuts down on your opportunity 

19    to borrow so that you can indeed contribute.  

20                 On healthcare, this budget sends a 

21    clear message:  New York will protect care, 

22    protect coverage, and protect people.  At a time 

23    when federal actions threaten to destabilize 

24    healthcare access, we're directing the Department 

25    of Health to minimize coverage losses while 


                                                               1396

 1    strengthening support for financially distressed 

 2    and rural hospitals, nursing homes, health 

 3    centers, and long-term-care providers.

 4                 It also advances lower prescription 

 5    drug costs.  And we're providing funding, yes, 

 6    for gender-affirming care in the wake of the 

 7    federal administration's attack on healthcare for 

 8    the LGBTQ+ communities.  

 9                 We continue major investments in 

10    reproductive freedom and maternal health.  

11    New York will remain a firewall for reproductive 

12    freedom and a state that continues to confront 

13    maternal health disparities head-on.

14                 We're also strengthening 

15    mental health and behavioral health services, 

16    because we know it all matters.

17                 We're also standing with our 

18    brothers and sisters in labor by strengthening 

19    labor protections, cracking down on wage theft.  

20    And we remain committed as a conference to 

21    reforming Tier 6 and improving benefits so that a 

22    career in public service can continue to be a 

23    pathway to stability, security, and dignified 

24    retirement.

25                 This budget restores and increases 


                                                               1397

 1    arts funding, supports tourism and downtown 

 2    revitalization.  It redesigns AIM, which we have 

 3    increased over the past few years, so it works 

 4    better for our municipalities.

 5                 On housing, the Senate continues to 

 6    take decisive action to expand affordable 

 7    housing, prevent homelessness, protect homeowners 

 8    and tenants.  We're investing in rental 

 9    assistance, public housing, and home ownership 

10    opportunities through the New York First Home 

11    Savings Program, while strengthening support for 

12    NYCHA, Mitchell-Lama preservation, and raising 

13    the SCRIE and DRIE thresholds.  

14                 We continue to lead on climate 

15    resilience and clean water.  And under the belief 

16    that investments in renewable energy will 

17    continue to lower energy costs for New Yorkers, 

18    this budget restores a billion dollars for the 

19    Sustainable Futures Program, increases the 

20    Environmental Protection Fund, increases clean 

21    water funding to work towards lead pipe 

22    remediation, private well testing, and drinking 

23    water grants.

24                 We invest in our local 

25    infrastructure, expand transit safety and 


                                                               1398

 1    affordability.  This budget builds on our past 

 2    historic investment in CHIPS funding, which as 

 3    you know continues to support our roads and 

 4    infrastructure.  And we provide resources to our 

 5    crucial public transit systems in New York City 

 6    and across the state.

 7                 We're continuing to value our 

 8    New York farms and the agriculture industry that 

 9    sustains our state's economy.  We know that 

10    without farmers we won't have food on our tables.  

11                 We're making targeted investments in 

12    safer communities, including increased funding 

13    for successful community violence prevention 

14    programs like SNUG, and providing help for our 

15    local law enforcement and first responders.  

16                 We're strengthening human rights and 

17    justice by investing in legal services, including 

18    additional funding for the Office of New 

19    Americans.  And we remain committed to achieving 

20    the goals of New York For All, with our partners, 

21    to advance solutions that protect immigrant 

22    families and ensure that every community in our 

23    state is treated with respect.

24                 As we progress through this budget 

25    process, I welcome the challenging yet necessary 


                                                               1399

 1    conversations and negotiations with the Executive 

 2    and with the Assembly.  The Senate Democratic 

 3    Majority remains united in our commitment to 

 4    ensuring New York remains an affordable, 

 5    equitable, and resilient place to live.  

 6                 And I look forward -- as I'm sure 

 7    you all do -- to the work ahead as we continue 

 8    negotiating a final budget that ultimately 

 9    delivers for the people of New York State.

10                 So thank you for your work.  And of 

11    course we have only just begun.  And just for 

12    everybody, this is the end of the beginning.  

13    Monday will be the beginning of the middle.  

14                 (Laughter.)

15                 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS:   Thank you 

16    very much, Mr. President.  Thank you.  

17                 (Applause.)

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Majority 

19    Leader Stewart-Cousins to be recorded in the 

20    affirmative.

21                 Announce the results.

22                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to the 

23    resolution, those voting in the negative are 

24    Senators Ashby, Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, 

25    Chan, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Lanza, Martins, 


                                                               1400

 1    Mattera, Murray, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, 

 2    Palumbo, Rhoads, Rolison, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk, 

 3    Weber and Weik.

 4                 Ayes, 38.  Nays, 22.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 6    resolution is adopted.

 7                 Senator Gianaris.

 8                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

 9    returning to motions for a moment, on behalf of 

10    Senator Jackson, on page 22, I offer the 

11    following amendments to Calendar 443, Senate 

12    Print 5183, and ask that said bill retain its 

13    place on the Third Reading Calendar.  

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

15    amendments are received, and the bill will retain 

16    its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

17                 Senator Gianaris.

18                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Is there any 

19    further business at the desk?

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   There is 

21    no further business at the desk.

22                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   We will be back 

23    here on Monday, March 16th, at 3:00 p.m.  

24                 I move to adjourn until then, with 

25    the intervening days being legislative days.


                                                               1401

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   On 

 2    motion, the Senate stands adjourned until Monday, 

 3    March 16th, at 3:00 p.m., with the intervening 

 4    days being legislative days.

 5                 (Whereupon, at 1:59 p.m., the Senate 

 6    adjourned.)

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