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Thursday, March 26, 2026

11:05 AMRegular SessionALBANY, NEW YORK
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                                                               1853

 1                NEW YORK STATE SENATE

 2                          

 3                          

 4               THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

 5                          

 6                          

 7                          

 8                          

 9                  ALBANY, NEW YORK

10                   March 26, 2026

11                     11:05 a.m.

12                          

13                          

14                   REGULAR SESSION

15  

16  

17  

18  

19  SENATOR JAMAAL T. BAILEY, Acting President

20  ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary

21  

22  

23  

24  

25  


                                                               1854

 1                P R O C E E D I N G S

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 3    Senate will come to order.

 4                 I ask everyone present to please 

 5    rise and recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

 6                 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 

 7    the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   In the 

 9    absence of clergy, let us bow our heads in a 

10    moment of silent reflection or prayer.

11                 (Whereupon, the assemblage respected 

12    a moment of silence.)

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Reading 

14    of the Journal.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   In Senate, 

16    Wednesday, March 25, 2026, the Senate met 

17    pursuant to adjournment.  The Journal of Tuesday, 

18    March 24, 2026, was read and approved.  On 

19    motion, the Senate adjourned.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Without 

21    objection, the Journal stands approved as read.

22                 Presentation of petitions.

23                 Messages from the Assembly.

24                 Messages from the Governor.

25                 Reports of standing committees.


                                                               1855

 1                 Reports of select committees.

 2                 Communications and reports from 

 3    state officers.

 4                 Motions and resolutions.

 5                 Senator Gianaris.

 6                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Good morning, 

 7    Mr. President.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Good 

 9    morning.

10                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   We'll begin with 

11    an immediate meeting of the Finance Committee in 

12    Room 332.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   There 

14    will be an immediate meeting of the 

15    Finance Committee in Room 332.

16                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   The Senate will 

17    stand at ease.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

19    Senate will stand at ease.

20                 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease 

21    at 11:06 a.m.)

22                 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at 

23    11:15 a.m.)

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

25    Senate will return to order.


                                                               1856

 1                 Senator Gianaris.  

 2                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

 3    there's a report of the Finance Committee at the 

 4    desk.  Let's take that up, please.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 6    Secretary will read.  

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator Krueger, 

 8    from the Committee on Finance, reports the 

 9    following bill:  

10                 Senate Print 9002A, Budget Bill, an 

11    act making appropriations for the legal 

12    requirements of the state debt service.

13                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to accept 

14    the report of the Finance Committee.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   All those 

16    in favor of accepting the report of the 

17    Finance Committee please signify by saying aye.

18                 (Response of "Aye.")

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Opposed, 

20    nay.

21                 (No response.)

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

23    report of the Finance Committee is accepted.  

24                 Senator Gianaris.  

25                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Please take up 


                                                               1857

 1    the supplemental calendar.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 3    Secretary will read.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 5    657, Senate Print 9002A, Budget Bill, an act 

 6    making appropriations for the legal requirements 

 7    of the state debt service.

 8                 (Pause.)

 9                 SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

10                 (Laughter.)

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Lay it 

12    aside.

13                 Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

14    reading of the supplemental calendar.

15                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Please go to the 

16    reading of the controversial calendar.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

18    Secretary will ring the bell.

19                 The Secretary will read.

20                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

21    657, Senate Print 9002A, Budget Bill --  

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Some 

23    order, please.

24                 THE SECRETARY:   -- an act making 

25    appropriations for the legal requirements of the 


                                                               1858

 1    state debt service.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 3    O'Mara, why do you rise?

 4                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

 5    Mr. President.  

 6                 We have the first of 10 budget bills 

 7    that we anticipate.  The other nine are not 

 8    before us -- and not in final form, remotely, as 

 9    far as I understand where we are in the budget 

10    negotiations.  

11                 And perhaps if Senator Krueger would 

12    yield, we would -- I would have some questions 

13    for her.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

15    Krueger, it is Opening Day.  Do you yield?  

16                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   It is 

17    Opening Day.  I yield for budget questions, not 

18    baseball questions.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Well, 

20    let's play ball, Senator O'Mara.  

21                 The Senator yields.

22                 SENATOR O'MARA:   All right.

23                 Senator, this is the bill to -- a 

24    very important bill to commit the state to paying 

25    the outstanding debt that we have, ending our 


                                                               1859

 1    fiscal year and going in to cover our debt 

 2    service payments for the next fiscal year.

 3                 What is the amount of debt, the 

 4    total being authorized that could be appropriated 

 5    as a result of this bill?  

 6                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   The debt service 

 7    appropriations are 10.6 billion, 3.7 billion of 

 8    which is cash.

 9                 SENATOR O'MARA:   I'm sorry, the 

10    last part?  

11                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Three point seven 

12    billion of which is cash.

13                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Is -- is --

14                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Cash.

15                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Oh, cash, I'm 

16    sorry.  I couldn't hear you.  Thank you.  

17                 Thank you, Mr. President.  If 

18    Senator Krueger will continue to yield.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Does the 

20    Senator yield?

21                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

23    Krueger yields.

24                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator, how does 

25    that amount of debt compare to the end of the 


                                                               1860

 1    fiscal year last year that we -- that actually -- 

 2    the number we had in the debt service bill last 

 3    year?  

 4                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   It's 

 5    approximately the same thing.  Cash increase of 

 6    1.3 billion, or 57 percent, from last year.

 7                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

 8    Mr. President, if the Senator will continue to 

 9    yield.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

11    sponsor yield?  

12                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

14    Senator yields.

15                 SENATOR O'MARA:   How much above the 

16    total outstanding state-related debt are we 

17    approving here that has not already been 

18    appropriated?

19                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   So 

20    state-supported debt outstanding is 61.6 billion 

21    from last year.  And 71.8 billion is estimated 

22    for fiscal year '27.

23                 But again, as we had a brief 

24    discussion about in the Finance Committee 

25    meeting, this bill is designed to complete our 


                                                               1861

 1    obligations for debt service for the coming year 

 2    on money we've already borrowed and even spent, 

 3    but also assumes a certain level of increased 

 4    spending from additional debt taken on in the 

 5    coming year.  

 6                 But we of course haven't passed 

 7    those bills, so we don't actually know whether we 

 8    would need to borrow that much money.  

 9                 And even though we are recognizing 

10    if we borrow that much money, based on our 

11    estimates of where we will be in our final 

12    capital budget, then it will allow us to go 

13    forward and borrow based on what we put in our 

14    final budget.  

15                 But if we make a -- if we have a 

16    smaller final capital budget than we are 

17    projecting, we won't be borrowing that money.  

18    Hence, we won't be taking on that much additional 

19    debt, and hence the money we need to borrow would 

20    be lower.

21                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

22    Senator.

23                 Through you, Mr. President, if the 

24    Senator will continue to yield.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Does the 


                                                               1862

 1    sponsor yield?  

 2                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

 4    sponsor yields.

 5                 SENATOR O'MARA:   It just seems to 

 6    me, Senator -- I understand what you're saying, 

 7    and I certainly understand the importance of 

 8    paying our outstanding obligations.  

 9                 But an extra $10 billion in here 

10    that, as you said, we don't know what it's for -- 

11    maybe it's going to come through another budget 

12    bill; maybe it isn't.  

13                 In my opinion, it would be more 

14    prudent to pass a bill today on what our 

15    outstanding debt obligations are, and then come 

16    back and revise this, amend it -- which we amend 

17    bills all the time here -- after we have a 

18    finalized capital projects budget.

19                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Through you, 

20    Mr. President.  I agree there are different ways 

21    to think about how we do things.  

22                 But to some degree this bill, the 

23    way it is written, is making an assumption -- 

24    like if you go out to buy a house and you get 

25    pre-permission on the mortgage amount from your 


                                                               1863

 1    bank before you've even found the house you might 

 2    be buying.  It gives you the ability to nimbly 

 3    make an offer and go forward with buying your 

 4    house because you don't have to start the process 

 5    then.  

 6                 And I think we all know how long 

 7    some things take to get done here.  Sometimes 

 8    things that you think are pretty easy and obvious 

 9    are not so easy and obvious, particularly when 

10    you're dealing with two houses and a Governor.  

11                 So we actually think it is more 

12    responsible and prudent to, to some degree, get 

13    the mortgage arrangements set up in advance, even 

14    if we might not take out that mortgage.

15                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

16    Senator.

17                 Mr. President, if the Senator will 

18    continue to yield.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

20    sponsor yield?  

21                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

23    sponsor yields.

24                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator, could you 

25    give us a basic outline of where we stand in the 


                                                               1864

 1    budget negotiations relative to the other nine 

 2    budget bills, and what your anticipated schedule 

 3    is to complete the budget process?  

 4                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   If I had a 

 5    crystal ball.  

 6                 I can assure everyone here we will 

 7    not have budget bills completed before the 

 8    April 1st deadline.

 9                 We are scheduled to be here Monday 

10    and Tuesday.  There will not be budget bills.  We 

11    are scheduled to be here the beginning of 

12    Wednesday; there will not be budget bills.  And 

13    in fact because it is, quote, unquote, the 

14    beginning of a major Jewish holiday that night -- 

15    April 1st is Passover, the first night of 

16    Passover -- I don't believe we will be asked to 

17    spend an exceptional amount of time here that day 

18    because for many of us, including myself, it will 

19    mean not getting home for our first seder.

20                 Then Thursday, the next day, is 

21    Holy Thursday.  Friday is Good Friday.  Sunday is 

22    Easter.  

23                 Is there a holiday Saturday?  

24                 SENATOR O'MARA:   No.  No.

25                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I guess we could 


                                                               1865

 1    come back for Saturday.  Oh, wait, it's Greek -- 

 2    we have Greek Holy Week.  

 3                 So I'm predicting we're not likely 

 4    to be here on anybody's major holidays, starting 

 5    April 1st for multiple days.  Then we can come 

 6    back the next week, if called back by the 

 7    Governor, and continue budget bills.

 8                 Obviously staff, as much as they 

 9    would not like to hear this, can be encouraged to 

10    be here working even on the religious holidays.  

11    And I certainly hope we are not going to make 

12    anyone work their religious holidays.  

13                 So that's the best I can offer us 

14    right now, all the days we won't be passing the 

15    budget.  But we will still have it to do.

16                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you.  Thank 

17    you, Senator.  

18                 Mr. President, if the Senator will 

19    continue to yield.  

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

21    sponsor yield?

22                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

24    sponsor yields.  

25                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Just so maybe I 


                                                               1866

 1    understand what you described, do you then 

 2    anticipate us the Monday after Easter being here 

 3    voting on budget bills, or being in session?

 4                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I don't know that 

 5    I can answer whether I anticipate or not, because 

 6    it's really then up to the Governor to decide 

 7    what kind of schedule she's putting for 

 8    extenders.  

 9                 We know certain things from past 

10    years' experience.  If you don't get the budget 

11    done by April 1st, you need to set up a schedule 

12    of when you're going to have extender bills ready 

13    in both houses to pass so that we, the State of 

14    New York, are not failing in our obligations to 

15    make sure that our workers get paid or that other 

16    bills that must be paid are paid on time.  

17    Because the Comptroller of the State of New York 

18    won't pay the workers of New York unless in fact 

19    there's an extender saying to do so.  

20                 Certain bills that come in on a 

21    regular basis may not be able to be paid unless 

22    there's an extender that includes paying bills 

23    for operating costs.  Even though, again, this 

24    would address capital costs.

25                 So I think there's a pretty good 


                                                               1867

 1    chance we would be here at least some day during 

 2    that week.

 3                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

 4    Senator.

 5                 Mr. President, if the Senator will 

 6    continue to yield.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 8    sponsor yield? 

 9                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

11    sponsor yields.  

12                 SENATOR O'MARA:   As the fiscal year 

13    ends next Wednesday, and that's the -- that 

14    evening is the start of Passover, and we're going 

15    to be off till some point the next week, we'll 

16    need an extender.  

17                 When do you anticipate or have there 

18    been discussions with the Governor of when that 

19    extender will come and what period of time that 

20    extender will cover?

21                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   So it is correct 

22    that we will be here Monday, Tuesday and part of 

23    Wednesday next week, and the Governor can hand us 

24    an extender to pass for whatever amount of time 

25    she chooses, that I assume we probably would 


                                                               1868

 1    pass.

 2                 We don't get to drive that action.  

 3    That has to be a Governor handing us an extender 

 4    to pass.

 5                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

 6    Mr. President, if the Senator will continue to 

 7    yield.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Will the 

 9    sponsor yield?  

10                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The 

12    sponsor yields.

13                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator, how would 

14    you characterize the working together of the 

15    two houses and the Governor at this point on the 

16    outstanding issues?  And what are the major 

17    outstanding issues that are being dealt with?

18                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   There are many, 

19    Mr. President.  And sometimes I feel like new 

20    ones pop up each day.  So I'm not totally sure 

21    how many are left to be dealt with.  

22                 Certainly discussions that we see in 

23    the media all the time are concerns about changes 

24    to CLCPA, environmental law; fraud issues and 

25    insurance company issues.  Tier 6 issues.  I'm 


                                                               1869

 1    trying to think what else.

 2                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Tax issues.

 3                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Oh, taxes, thank 

 4    you.  Tax issues.  

 5                 Local locality issues.  If you walk 

 6    through the halls you'll see quite a few of our 

 7    friends from local government who are up here 

 8    urging us to take certain actions and not 

 9    actions.  

10                 Healthcare financing issues.  

11                 It's a lot of issues, I have to say.  

12    It's a big-deal budget.

13                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

14    Senator.  

15                 Mr. President, on the bill.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

17    O'Mara on the bill.

18                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

19    Senator Krueger, for those.  And it's clear and 

20    it's not unusual at this stage of the budget that 

21    there are a lot of unresolved issues.  

22                 Certainly we would prefer to have 

23    them worked out by the end of the fiscal year, 

24    and that would be more prudent fiscal practice.  

25                 And it's critically important that 


                                                               1870

 1    we obligate ourselves to pay the debt services 

 2    that are coming up after the end of this fiscal 

 3    year that ends next Wednesday.  And I fully 

 4    support our committing ourselves to that debt 

 5    service.  

 6                 What I do not support is padding 

 7    this by an extra $10 billion for projects that we 

 8    don't even know what they are yet, when we could 

 9    easily be coming back throughout the rest of the 

10    budget process and amending this from just 

11    covering what needs to be covered, and then amend 

12    it to add what then has to be covered out of the 

13    new budget.  

14                 And I think that would be the better 

15    way to go.

16                 Thank you, Mr. President.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

18    you, Senator O'Mara.  

19                 Senator Tedisco on the bill.

20                 SENATOR TEDISCO:   Thank you, 

21    Mr. President.

22                 It's good that we have one part of 

23    the budget that we've started today, the debt 

24    service.  That's kind of probably the easiest 

25    part of the budget.  And I think most of my 


                                                               1871

 1    constituents by this time know, because over the 

 2    years we've had a lot of late budgets going on.  

 3                 This is a constitutional mandate.  

 4    Probably the most important thing we do is here 

 5    is put a good, balanced, on-time budget for our 

 6    constituents which keeps them here and 

 7    incentivizes people to come to New York State.  

 8    And April 1st is the deadline.  

 9                 I have to tell you, nobody in my 

10    district -- I think you'd say this too, to a 

11    great extent -- goes to work, sits there, has 

12    their bosses give them a deadline to complete a 

13    project, and says to them, I'm definitely not 

14    going to complete that project by the deadline 

15    you've given me, and expects to come back and get 

16    paid the next day -- or actually show up because 

17    they still have a job.  

18                 Now, over the years -- and I think 

19    I've been here a while.  In fact, longer than 

20    anybody's been in this room -- historically the 

21    media and all our constituents have been trying 

22    to figure out who's in charge of delaying and 

23    making us have late budgets.  Sometimes school 

24    districts say, We have to go out and borrow 

25    because we have school budgets coming up and 


                                                               1872

 1    everything.  Who's responsible for the most 

 2    important constitutional duty we have to put 

 3    forth, a good balanced budget in a timely fashion 

 4    which protects our constituency?  

 5                 And over the years Democrats have 

 6    blamed Republicans, Republicans have blamed 

 7    Democrats.  I can tell you this.  Our side of the 

 8    aisle, in our conference -- we happen to be 

 9    Republicans -- never controlled all levers of 

10    power for the number of years I have been here or 

11    you have been here.  Never.  

12                 Now, you can say we controlled a 

13    Republican Senate.  But at that time you've 

14    either got a totally Democratic Assembly -- and 

15    we had George Pataki here one day.  But we never 

16    had all levers of power.

17                 Who is responsible for this budget 

18    heading towards -- and as defined by our leader 

19    in Finance, we're going to be late.  Wait a 

20    second.  It's not April 1st yet.  

21                 When my people are working, they say 

22    to the boss, I'm going to be late.  When do you 

23    tell them you're going to be late?  You've got 

24    time left to go.

25                 You control all levers of power.  


                                                               1873

 1    You control the Senate, one vote shy of a 

 2    supermajority.  Supermajority in the Assembly.  

 3    The Governor's your affiliation.  You couldn't do 

 4    a balanced on-time good budget for your 

 5    constituents in a timely fashion?  You had a 

 6    whole year.

 7                 Don't be pointing towards this side 

 8    of the aisle because you're late with the most 

 9    important job you're expected to do 

10    constitutionally.  

11                 You know what my dad said to me, the 

12    most important lesson?  He worked in the foundry 

13    for 30 years.  Most important lesson he gave to 

14    me is 90 percent of success is just showing up 

15    and getting the job done when you do.

16                 You can't cut and run.  You've got 

17    to show up and do the job your constituents 

18    elected you to do.

19                 There's only one finger being 

20    pointed towards this lateness.  You couldn't get 

21    the job done.  The media knows it now.  Your 

22    constituents know it now.  We know who are in 

23    charge of late budgets.  The leader has said it 

24    now, of Finance.  It's going to be late.  We're 

25    shocked, it's going to be late.


                                                               1874

 1                 Well, there's nobody to point 

 2    towards for not doing your job.  How about those 

 3    conference committees, aren't they great?  I had 

 4    one.  We got a great leader.  I love my leader in 

 5    conference committee.  She's on your side of the 

 6    aisle.  Love working with her.  I was a teacher 

 7    at one time, I say that a lot.  Senator Liu likes 

 8    to hear me say that.

 9                 Thirty-nine billion dollars, one of 

10    the largest parts of the budget.  One meeting.  

11    They said, Hurry up, don't say too much in this 

12    one -- the purpose of conference committees was 

13    to engage elected officials, Senators and 

14    Assemblypeople, to help the Governor move 

15    forward, whoever was in place, with a balanced 

16    budget.  

17                 Your constituents don't deserve us 

18    standing up here a week before the deadline and 

19    saying we can't do it.  You're in charge of 

20    everything, but you can't do it.

21                 Well, now the media knows who can't 

22    do it.  You control it all.  Nobody on this side 

23    of the aisle stopped this budget from being 

24    on-time.  Nobody on this side said we're only 

25    going to have one conference committee.  I don't 


                                                               1875

 1    know what the other committees -- maybe you had 

 2    two, three?  

 3                 If you really want to engage 

 4    yourself, you wouldn't have one meeting.  You 

 5    wouldn't stifle discussion at that one meeting.  

 6    You would work earlier, on-time, because you 

 7    control it and can do it.

 8                 I'll be honest, we can't do it.  We 

 9    got a lot of good ideas to keep people in 

10    New York -- maybe this is the reason why we're 

11    number-one in outmigration.  And I talk about 

12    that a lot.  

13                 If there was ever an indictment on 

14    the failure of policies and agendas and late 

15    budgets, it's people walking out of the state and 

16    voting with their feet.  

17                 Now, I want the viewers to know.  

18    This body, the Assembly, one party, one 

19    affiliation.  We were in the majority at one time 

20    here, but we weren't in control of all levers of 

21    power.  And there was a difference of agendas and 

22    policies.  There's probably a difference with 

23    you, but you've got to settle it because you 

24    control all levers.  And they deserved it when 

25    you told them, Won't be any more late budgets 


                                                               1876

 1    when we're in charge in all three houses because 

 2    that darn majority in the Senate, those 

 3    Republicans, are holding up this thing.  

 4                 Well, that darn majority isn't here 

 5    anymore.  And you didn't get the most important 

 6    thing you were elected to do done in a timely 

 7    fashion, according to what has been said.

 8                 So I suggest this.  You don't want 

 9    the staff to go home?  We shouldn't go home.  You 

10    should stay here in Albany.  Stay here in Albany.  

11    Because a lot of my constituents work overtime.  

12                 You know, I remember my dad, 2:00, 

13    3 o'clock in the morning he'd come in, or they'd 

14    call him, 4:00, 5:00, 3 o'clock in the morning:  

15    "Go into GE, there was an explosion."  Working in 

16    one of the most difficult conditions you can ever 

17    think of.

18                 He succumbed to stomach cancer.  You 

19    know why?  Because he sucked up red-hot molten 

20    steel, asbestos.  No OSHA regulations.  Died of 

21    stomach cancer.  And you talked about that the 

22    other day.  And that was a good bill.  I 

23    supported that bill.  Even now, we don't have 

24    enough regulations in that.  

25                 I don't know what the regulations 


                                                               1877

 1    are here.  It's not red hot, molten steel and 

 2    asbestos in here.  It's sunlight.  You've had 

 3    sunlight for over a year to get yourself in place 

 4    to pass a good, on-time, balanced budget.  Which 

 5    your constituents deserve.

 6                 So the media knows now.  The 

 7    constituents know now.  You control it all, baby, 

 8    control it all.  So don't cut and run.  Stay here 

 9    and get the job done.

10                 Thank you, Mr. President.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

12    you, Senator Tedisco. 

13                 Senator Walczyk on the bill.

14                 SENATOR WALCZYK:   Thank you, 

15    Mr. President.  On the bill.  

16                 The budget's due in six days, and 

17    you're bringing us the debt service bill today.  

18    This will allow us to pay what we owe and 

19    apparently borrow for what we don't know that we 

20    owe yet.  

21                 I want to read something, 

22    Mr. President.

23                 "State debt levels and processes 

24    have been debated in New York for many years.  

25    New York's high and growing debt burden and its 


                                                               1878

 1    impact on taxpayers have been points of concern 

 2    for the state's budget practices.  Excessive debt 

 3    also constrains efforts to improve the state's 

 4    credit rating.

 5                 "In its recent review, Standard & 

 6    Poor's stated that New York's 'moderately high 

 7    and growing debt levels' were a factor that would 

 8    'preclude a higher credit rating.'  Moody's ranks 

 9    New York as having the second largest total debt 

10    burden of all states, following California.  The 

11    major credit rating agencies have also commented 

12    on New York's past history of inappropriately 

13    using debt to finance operating expenses, often 

14    in response to economic disruptions.

15                 "Efforts to reform state debt 

16    practices and limit debt can be traced all the 

17    way back to the 1800s, when a constitutional 

18    change was made to require voter approval for 

19    issuing State General Obligation debt.  The 

20    state's infrastructure needs have evolved in 

21    tandem with the modern economy and are now vastly 

22    broader in scope, complexity and magnitude than 

23    in the 19th century, requiring an expansive 

24    capital plan.  The state borrows to finance such 

25    spending needs, with public authorities 


                                                               1879

 1    increasingly being utilized to circumvent the 

 2    constitutional requirement for voter approval of 

 3    State debt.  'Backdoor borrowing' by public 

 4    authorities bypasses the public's vested interest 

 5    in limiting state debt levels, which, in turn, 

 6    has led to a high debt burden.

 7                 "High debt levels in the modern era 

 8    eventually led to the Debt Reform Act of 2000, 

 9    which imposed caps on state debt outstanding and 

10    debt service spending.  However, loopholes in the 

11    act were exploited over time to circumvent the 

12    limits ...

13                 "Increased projections of state debt 

14    levels, coupled with persistent concerns 

15    regarding the state's capital planning process 

16    and its shortcomings for effectively prioritizing 

17    projects, give taxpayers good cause to be 

18    concerned."

19                 And in the conclusion:  "A complete 

20    state debt reform effort must adhere to a roadmap 

21    of principles encompassing these four overarching 

22    goals:  It must be comprehensive and binding; it 

23    must be accountable to state taxpayers and 

24    voters; it must impose responsible and 

25    sustainable affordability limits and practices; 


                                                               1880

 1    and it must allow flexibility for the potential 

 2    emergencies of modern times.

 3                 "Achieving this reform will confer 

 4    an enduring benefit on the people of New York 

 5    through a sustainable and affordable debt limit, 

 6    and help to ensure the prudent use of limited 

 7    public resources."  

 8                 That wasn't me who wrote it, 

 9    Mr. President.  That was Democrat Tom DiNapoli, 

10    the New York State Comptroller.

11                 So when the budget is due six days 

12    from now, New Yorkers don't know what's in it.  

13    As was already pointed out, we haven't even 

14    convened open conference committees to discuss 

15    many of the issues that have been brought forward 

16    since the Governor first introduced her budget.  

17                 But here today, you're asking to 

18    borrow an additional $10 billion for a budget 

19    that we haven't seen.

20                 You control the Senate.  You control 

21    the Assembly.  You control the Governor's office.  

22    You should have listened to the Comptroller 

23    two years ago when he wrote that.  

24                 You're spending more than we can 

25    possibly afford, and you're planning to spend 


                                                               1881

 1    more than our future can afford.  You're 

 2    borrowing on the backs of New Yorkers' futures, 

 3    and you're ignoring the advice of the Comptroller 

 4    who watches over the books.  

 5                 You cannot make New York more 

 6    affordable by spending, by taxing, and by 

 7    borrowing more and more each year.  If you could, 

 8    then New York State would be the second most 

 9    affordable state in the nation.  But you all know 

10    that we're not.  

11                 So on this unaffordable debt, 

12    Mr. President, I vote no and encourage my 

13    colleagues to do the same.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

15    you, Senator Walczyk.

16                 Senator Stec on the bill.

17                 SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

18    Mr. President.  On the bill.  

19                 Late again.  Last year, this budget 

20    was six weeks late.  It's proposed -- your 

21    proposal is $270 billion, with a B, dollars.  

22    That is more than Texas and Florida combined.  

23    That is one and a half times per capita the state 

24    of California.  

25                 Just a couple of weeks ago Siena had 


                                                               1882

 1    a poll out -- a respected poll, a trusted poll, 

 2    established poll.  And I hope everyone knows what 

 3    I'm about to say, but in case you don't, I'm 

 4    going to say it again, because it should be 

 5    setting off alarm bells in your conference room 

 6    and the conference room down the hall and down on 

 7    the second floor.

 8                 One in three New Yorkers polled in 

 9    that Siena poll said they intend to leave this 

10    state in the next five years.  For those of you 

11    that are slow on the math, that's 6 million 

12    people that the Siena poll projects will leave in 

13    the next five years.  

14                 They are not leaving because of cold 

15    weather, they are leaving because this state is 

16    contributing to a failure of our economy.  They 

17    can't afford to live here.  

18                 And I'm going to spend time now, 

19    here at the end of March, because you've got 

20    six days until this budget is late to do some 

21    honest reflection.  Why are New Yorkers saying 

22    they're going to leave?  They are fleeing.  One 

23    in three say they're going to leave in the next 

24    five years.  

25                 A budget more than Texas and 


                                                               1883

 1    Florida's combined, one and a half times more, 

 2    per capita, than California's budget, that 

 3    ignores the state's own experts on what the 

 4    energy crisis is doing in New York, that the 

 5    CLCPA is going to jack people's costs up $4,000 a 

 6    year in a couple of years, and give us 

 7    $5-a-gallon gas.  

 8                 And you're content to stay the 

 9    status quo there.  Please, for the love of God, 

10    and for our constituents, one in three 

11    New Yorkers are saying they want to leave because 

12    they don't want to put up with it.  

13                 I'll be voting no on this bill and 

14    the rest of them unless I see significant 

15    changes.

16                 Thank you, Mr. President.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Thank 

18    you, Senator Stec.

19                 Are there any other Senators wishing 

20    to be heard?

21                 Seeing and hearing none, debate is 

22    closed.

23                 The Secretary will ring the bell.

24                 Read the last section.

25                 Senator Gianaris.


                                                               1884

 1                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

 2    we've agreed to restore this bill to the 

 3    noncontroversial calendar.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Upon 

 5    consent, the bill is restored to the 

 6    noncontroversial calendar.  

 7                 Read the last section.

 8                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 9    act shall take effect immediately.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Call the 

11    roll.

12                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

14    Krueger to explain her vote.

15                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you, 

16    Mr. President.  And thank you, colleagues.  

17                 So I would wish we had an on-time 

18    budget.  I've lived through endless years, under 

19    both Democrats and Republicans, where we didn't 

20    have on-time budgets.  

21                 But I know, unlike Washington, 

22    D.C. -- also controlled totally by one party, the 

23    Republican Party -- they're not paying federal 

24    workers and expecting them to show up for work, 

25    or paying them half the costs.  That's 


                                                               1885

 1    outrageous.  

 2                 We in New York have mastered a 

 3    system where we pay our bills even when we're 

 4    still debating pieces of the budget.  We pay our 

 5    workers.  We don't leave anybody hanging.  We can 

 6    explain everything to people.  

 7                 And frankly, when I was in the 

 8    minority for 17 years, I wasn't saying Democrats 

 9    will get everything done on time.  I said 

10    Democrats will get better budgets that matter to 

11    people.  And I believe that New Yorkers want 

12    better budgets that matter to people, not what 

13    date is on the bill.

14                 So yes, I would prefer that with a 

15    Governor and two houses all of the same party, we 

16    might be able to get things done faster.  But 

17    I'll still stand by getting better results is 

18    much more important than getting it on time.  

19                 Frankly, when we don't get the 

20    budget done on time, we don't get paid.  

21    Everybody else does.  I think everybody here 

22    knows that.

23                 Finally, quickly, despite the 

24    argument we just heard that people are not happy 

25    with how we spend money or that we borrow money, 


                                                               1886

 1    in fact, Wall Street, which lends us the money, 

 2    actually continues to increase our credit 

 3    ratings.  

 4                 Yes, they went down during COVID, 

 5    for real reasons related to COVID.  But since 

 6    2020, when they did downgrade the state's rating, 

 7    Moody's upgraded New York State last in August 

 8    '24.  We have excellent credit ratings from 

 9    Fitch, Kroll, Moody's and S&P.  We get AA+, AA+, 

10    Aa1 and A/AA+ from each of those agencies.  

11                 In fact, Moody's reiterated just a 

12    few weeks ago that, citing a stable outlook based 

13    on the state's strong reserves, budget 

14    flexibility, and sound management tools, we are 

15    fully confident with the state's ability to be 

16    borrowing the amount of money they have been 

17    borrowing, and for paying and improving our 

18    infrastructure.  

19                 And the drop in 2020 was 

20    specifically related to COVID, which has all been 

21    readdressed.  

22                 We are far more worried about 

23    federal reserves and the ability of the federal 

24    government to make good on their payment 

25    schedules, and that is where the concerns should 


                                                               1887

 1    lie.  I'm concerned about the federal changes and 

 2    very concerned that with the loss of federal 

 3    money already, and the potential for even greater 

 4    amounts of loss of money.  

 5                 I understand that the 

 6    responsibilities for this Legislature and this 

 7    government will continue to put more demand on 

 8    us, and more drain.

 9                 So several of my colleagues have 

10    already said they won't be voting for the other 

11    budget bills when they come, and that is their 

12    right.  But I hope that they are consistent that 

13    they will also vote no on the capital bill, 

14    because I think most of us like to go home and 

15    talk about how much good we did when we passed 

16    more money for our school districts and our 

17    construction projects at home.  

18                 But I hope that people are 

19    consistent.  If they're saying no on everything 

20    else, they'd better not just pass the bills that 

21    they think get them credit at home.

22                 I'm a yes, Mr. President, thank you.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

24    Krueger to be recorded in the affirmative.

25                 Senator Borrello to explain his 


                                                               1888

 1    vote.

 2                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you.  

 3                 First of all, I want to thank 

 4    Senator Krueger for her honesty.  Because the 

 5    Governor was in Syracuse yesterday saying we're 

 6    going to have an on-time budget.  So I'm not sure 

 7    where she got that information.  Clearly not from 

 8    Senator Krueger.  

 9                 So that being said, today's debt 

10    bill, I realize the narrative is you need to vote 

11    for this because this is debt we're already 

12    obligated to.  Well, we're authorizing $9 billion 

13    in new debt and retiring $3 billion in debt.

14                 You know, I get notices from credit 

15    cards all the time saying "We've increased your 

16    credit limit, congratulations!"  That doesn't 

17    mean you go out and charge the credit card up to 

18    full because they increased the credit limit.  So 

19    that's kind of what we're doing today.

20                 Meanwhile, we know that while we're 

21    borrowing more money, the Hochul administration 

22    continues to not address fraud, waste and abuse.  

23    Two billion dollars in Medicaid payments to 

24    people that don't even live in New York State.  

25                 So we're borrowing money to 


                                                               1889

 1    subsidize fraud, in my opinion.  So I'll be 

 2    voting no.

 3                 Thank you, Mr. President.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

 5    Borrello to be recorded in the negative.

 6                 Senator Skoufis to explain his vote.

 7                 SENATOR SKOUFIS:   Thank you very 

 8    much, Mr. President.

 9                 First, I want to, for the record and 

10    for the aforementioned many countless viewers who 

11    are tuning into these proceedings, correct the 

12    record on one point.  

13                 I'm surprised that for a colleague 

14    across the aisle who's been in the Legislature 

15    for 43 years, 43 years, he does not know that we 

16    did not have the full year to negotiate a budget 

17    and be done by April 1st.

18                 Article 7, Section 2 of the 

19    State Constitution makes it very clear that an 

20    Executive Budget proposal comes to us by the 

21    third Thursday -- or Tuesday, rather, in January.  

22    If it's a new governor, they have till 

23    February 1st.  

24                 We've had two months, not a full 

25    year.  So just to correct that one point.


                                                               1890

 1                 But the more important issue is 

 2    that, yes, we may well be past April 1st by the 

 3    time we're done.  Yes, Democrats are in the 

 4    majority in both houses and a Democrat is in the 

 5    Governor's mansion.  But the reason we may wind 

 6    up past April 1st is because we are not a rubber 

 7    stamp, despite the fact that one party is in 

 8    control of the Legislature and the governorship.  

 9                 And the other side should be 

10    grateful that we are not a rubber stamp.  We 

11    actually have disagreements.  There are points of 

12    contention that we do not just give in to.  And 

13    that stands in stark contrast to our federal 

14    government, where when the executive says "Jump," 

15    the legislature just responds:  "How high?"  

16                 We should all be grateful we do not 

17    operate that way.  And yes, it might yield a 

18    budget that is a little past April 1st, but it 

19    yields a better budget as a result.  

20                 I vote yes.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

22    Skoufis to be recorded in the affirmative.

23                 Senator Gianaris to close.

24                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Who's going to 

25    be the chamber historian when I'm gone?  


                                                               1891

 1                 Let's talk facts.  When two of the 

 2    three players in the budget process were 

 3    Republicans, George Pataki and Joe Bruno, the 

 4    budget was routinely late -- not by days, not by 

 5    weeks, by months.  August.  August.  Senator 

 6    Tedisco, you were around in those days.  You 

 7    remember.  

 8                 SENATOR TEDISCO:   Forty-four years. 

 9                 (Laughter.)

10                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Yes.  

11                 August.  Four times the budget went 

12    to August under a Republican-dominated budget 

13    process.

14                 You want to say, Well, it wasn't all 

15    one party.  Okay, let's look at what all-party 

16    control is responsibly and irresponsibly.  

17                 Here, we haven't had government 

18    shutdowns.  The budget's late a few days, a 

19    couple of weeks, maybe.  But we end up with a 

20    budget, the state continues to function.  

21                 You want to see what irresponsible 

22    all-party control looks like?  Try waiting in 

23    line to get on a plane these days.  

24                 Republican control of the federal 

25    government is complete.  They have shutdowns 


                                                               1892

 1    every couple of months.  People's lives are 

 2    affected.  People are not getting paid.  And if 

 3    you want to take a trip, good luck to you.

 4                 We're going to do this the way we've 

 5    always done it, which is in the best interests of 

 6    the people.  As Senator Skoufis mentioned, we're 

 7    going to stand up for the people we represent and 

 8    believe in.  We're going to end up with a good 

 9    product.  And if it's not done on April 1st, it 

10    will be done shortly thereafter, and the state 

11    will just keep on functioning just fine.  

12                 I vote yes, Mr. President.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Senator 

14    Gianaris to be recorded in the affirmative.

15                 Announce the results.  

16                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

17    Calendar 657, voting in the negative are 

18    Senators Borrello, Chan, Helming, Lanza, O'Mara, 

19    Ortt, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk and Weik.

20                 Ayes, 47.  Nays, 10.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   The bill 

22    is passed.

23                 Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

24    reading of today's supplemental -- excuse me, 

25    controversial calendar.


                                                               1893

 1                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Is there any 

 2    further business at the desk?

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   There is 

 4    no further business at the desk.

 5                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   I move to 

 6    adjourn until Monday, March 30th, 3:00 p.m., with 

 7    intervening days being legislative days.  

 8                 And Mr. President:  Let's go, Mets!  

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT BAILEY:   Yes.

10                 On motion, the Senate stands 

11    adjourned until Monday, March 30th, at 3:00 p.m., 

12    with the intervening days being legislative.  

13                 It is the real Opening Day.  Let's 

14    go, Mets!

15                 (Whereupon,at 11:53 a.m., the Senate 

16    adjourned.)

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