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Monday, March 30, 2026

3:26 PMRegular SessionALBANY, NEW YORK
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                                                               1897

 1                NEW YORK STATE SENATE

 2                          

 3                          

 4               THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

 5                          

 6                          

 7                          

 8                          

 9                  ALBANY, NEW YORK

10                   March 30, 2026

11                      3:26 p.m.

12                          

13                          

14                   REGULAR SESSION

15  

16  

17  

18  SENATOR ROXANNE J. PERSAUD, Acting President

19  ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary

20  

21  

22  

23  

24  

25  


                                                               1898

 1                P R O C E E D I N G S

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

 3    Senate will come to order.  

 4                 I ask everyone to please rise and 

 5    recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

 6                 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 

 7    the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   In the 

 9    absence of clergy, let us bow our heads in a 

10    moment of silent reflection or prayer.

11                 (Whereupon, the assemblage respected 

12    a moment of silence.)

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Reading 

14    of the Journal.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   In Senate, Friday, 

16    March 27, 2026, the Senate met pursuant to 

17    adjournment.  The Journal of Thursday, March 26, 

18    2026, was read and approved.  On motion, the 

19    Senate adjourned.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Without 

21    objection, the Journal stands approved as read.

22                 Presentation of petitions.

23                 Messages from the Assembly.

24                 Messages from the Governor.

25                 Reports of standing committees.


                                                               1899

 1                 Reports of select committees.

 2                 Communications and reports from 

 3    state officers.

 4                 Motions and resolutions.

 5                 Senator Gianaris.

 6                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Good afternoon, 

 7    Madam President.

 8                 I have amendments to the following 

 9    Third Reading Calendar bills:  

10                 By Senator Krueger, page 16, 

11    Calendar Number 450, Senate Print 2224A;

12                 And by Senator Harckham, page 17, 

13    Calendar Number 464, Senate Print 4033B. 

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

15    amendments are received, and the bills will 

16    retain their place on the Third Reading Calendar.

17                 Senator Gianaris.

18                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Please recognize 

19    Senator Scarcella-Spanton for an introduction.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

21    Scarcella-Spanton for an introduction.

22                 SENATOR SCARCELLA-SPANTON:   Thank 

23    you, Madam President.  

24                 It is my honor to introduce Dr. Amit 

25    Verma, his two daughters, his mother, and his 


                                                               1900

 1    in-laws to Albany today.  

 2                 They are actually lucky enough to be 

 3    represented by Senator Mayer, who's here with us 

 4    as well.  

 5                 Dr. Verma is the chair of the 

 6    Department of Oncology and associate director, 

 7    Translational Science, Montefiore Einstein 

 8    Comprehensive Cancer Center, and professor of 

 9    Medical Oncology and professor of 

10    Developmental and Molecular Biology at the 

11    Albert Einstein College of Medicine.  

12                 In 2022, through a New York State 

13    grant that the Albert Einstein College of 

14    Medicine received for groundbreaking research 

15    that produced compelling, actionable results, led 

16    by Dr. Verma and Dr. David Presan, which 

17    successfully sequenced blood samples from over a 

18    thousand World Trade Center exposed first 

19    responders, including firefighters, police 

20    officers, many of whom have been U.S. military 

21    veterans.  

22                 First responders with these 

23    mutations were nearly six times more likely to 

24    develop leukemia.  

25                 This study had an immediate clinical 


                                                               1901

 1    impact.  First responders identified with the 

 2    mutation were immediately contacted and referred 

 3    for comprehensive medical evaluation, enabling 

 4    early detection, enhanced monitoring, and timely 

 5    intervention.  

 6                 On a personal note, I will say I 

 7    have three uncles, two of which were police 

 8    officers, one of which was an FDNY -- he was an 

 9    FDNY Rescue Five on Staten Island.  My uncle 

10    Larry Sullivan passed away from a 9/11-related 

11    cancer.  

12                 So I want to say thank you for your 

13    work and helping families to avoid the tragedy 

14    that my family had faced.  We know that early 

15    detection is key in making sure people get the 

16    treatment that they need.

17                 So with that, we are honored to have 

18    Dr. Verma with us today to share his expertise 

19    and insight.  Please join me in welcoming 

20    Dr. Verma and his wonderful family today.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

22    you, Senator.  

23                 To Dr. Verma and family, we welcome 

24    you on behalf of the Senate.  We extend to you 

25    the privileges and courtesies of this house.  


                                                               1902

 1    Thank you for your service.  

 2                 Please continue standing and be 

 3    recognized.

 4                 (Standing ovation.)

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 6    Gianaris.

 7                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Please take up 

 8    previously adopted Resolution 1707, by 

 9    Senator Fernandez, read its title and recognize 

10    Senator Fernandez.  

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

12    Secretary will read.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   Resolution 1707, by 

14    Senator Fernandez, memorializing Governor Kathy 

15    Hochul to proclaim March 2026 as Problem Gambling 

16    Awareness Month in the State of New York.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

18    Fernandez on the resolution.

19                 SENATOR FERNANDEZ:   Thank you, 

20    Madam President.  

21                 Thank you to this floor for even 

22    though we're in the last days of March, 

23    March 2025 and so on should be recognized, will 

24    be recognized after the passage of this 

25    resolution for -- to be Gambling Awareness Month.  


                                                               1903

 1                 There are some proposals that we're 

 2    looking at right now as we go through our budget.  

 3    Now that we have three new casinos coming, this 

 4    should be a top priority of awareness, making 

 5    sure that we are investing in programs that can 

 6    help people overcome addiction.  

 7                 As we look at options to raise 

 8    revenue, let's be aware of some of the concerns 

 9    and harms that still lie with access to online 

10    betting and everything related.  

11                 So this month, please be aware.  

12    Please remember those that do suffer, that this 

13    is not a harmless addiction.  Because at the 

14    worst of it, we might lose somebody to self-harm, 

15    to suicide, should the gambling addiction get 

16    worse.

17                 So this is an important awareness to 

18    have, and I'm grateful to this body for 

19    supporting it.  And let's continue to be mindful 

20    of the investments that we're negotiating in the 

21    next couple of days.  

22                 Thank you.  I support it.  

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

24    you, Senator.

25                 The resolution was adopted on 


                                                               1904

 1    March 10th.

 2                 Senator Gianaris.

 3                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   At this time 

 4    please recognize Senator Rolison for an 

 5    introduction.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 7    Rolison for an introduction.

 8                 SENATOR ROLISON:   Thank you, 

 9    Madam President.  

10                 And I want to thank Senator Gianaris 

11    for -- this is a late-addition introduction, but 

12    nonetheless one that is very important for us to 

13    be able to have the opportunity to recognize 

14    today.  

15                 Today we're joined by the Youth 

16    Leadership in Government program from the City of 

17    Poughkeepsie.  It start in 2025, under the 

18    leadership of Mayor Yvonne Flowers, who is here 

19    today, and Karen Williams, who is the director of 

20    Youth Services for the City of Poughkeepsie.  

21                 I've had the opportunity to meet 

22    with this group before, in-district, and today 

23    they're here at the Capitol.  They met earlier 

24    this morning with Assemblyman Jonathan Jacobson, 

25    and then they came over and had the opportunity 


                                                               1905

 1    to speak with me upstairs in the office and then 

 2    came down to the Senate floor.  

 3                 And what this government leadership 

 4    class does is give students the opportunity to 

 5    understand what we're doing here, what other 

 6    levels of government are doing, and the fact that 

 7    they can do it too.  You absolutely can.

 8                 And they're making a difference even 

 9    before getting elected to office.  They're making 

10    a difference in finding out about government, 

11    community service, nonprofit organizations are 

12    the very fabric of our communities and of course 

13    our Senate districts.  

14                 So just honored, Madam President, to 

15    have them here today.  I know we say this a lot, 

16    but we also mean it a lot.  These individuals are 

17    the future of our communities, they are the 

18    future of our governments.  But really, you know, 

19    they are our future.  

20                 And, Madam President, would you 

21    please extend the courtesies of this house to 

22    this fantastic group, led by a fantastic mayor in 

23    Mayor Yvonne Flowers.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

25    you, Senator.


                                                               1906

 1                 To our student government leaders, 

 2    future leaders of our state, we welcome you on 

 3    behalf of the Senate.  We extend to you the 

 4    privileges and courtesies of this house.  

 5                 Please rise and be recognized.

 6                 (Standing ovation.)

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 8    Gianaris.

 9                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

10    today's resolution sponsors would like to open 

11    them for cosponsorship.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

13    resolutions are open for cosponsorship.  Should 

14    you choose not to be a cosponsor, please notify 

15    the desk.

16                 Senator Gianaris.

17                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Please take up 

18    the calendar.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

20    Secretary will read.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

22    114, Senate Print 1688, by Senator Skoufis, an 

23    act to amend the Executive Law.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

25    last section.


                                                               1907

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 2    act shall take effect immediately.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

 4    roll.

 5                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 7    Borrello to explain his vote.

 8                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you, 

 9    Madam President.  

10                 I rise to vote yes on this bill, and 

11    also I want to thank Senator Skoufis for 

12    introducing this for I think the sixth time now.  

13                 But I also want to take this moment 

14    to recognize a now late member of the 

15    Tuskegee Airmen, also a resident in my 

16    Senate district.  

17                 Wallace "Wally" Higgins, of 

18    Allegany County, was among a distinguished group 

19    of American heroes.  Wally Higgins was one of the 

20    original Tuskegee Airmen, part of a historic 

21    generation of Black servicemen who answered their 

22    country's call at a time when the same country 

23    was still marked by segregation and 

24    discrimination.  

25                 He was recruited into the Army in 


                                                               1908

 1    1943 before he could even finish high school.  

 2    Wally was then sent south for training, where he 

 3    was selected for the Tuskegee program.  

 4                 He completed the flight training at 

 5    Tuskegee and later served in the Pacific in 

 6    Saipan and Okinawa, helping build roads, 

 7    airfields, and other infrastructure critical to 

 8    America's war effort.  

 9                 His life reminds us that the story 

10    of the Tuskegee Airmen is not just one of 

11    military excellence, but also of patriotism, 

12    perseverance, and dignify in the face of 

13    injustice.  

14                 After the war, Wally continued 

15    serving others as a professor at 

16    Alfred University, a community volunteer, and a 

17    civic leader in Allegany County.  He received a 

18    Congressional Gold Medal, was inducted into the 

19    New York State Veterans Hall of Fame by my 

20    predecessor, Cathy Young, and earned the respect 

21    of everyone who knew him.

22                 Establishing Tuskegee Airmen 

23    Commemoration Day ensures that men like 

24    Wally Higgins are not forgotten and that 

25    future generations understand both what they 


                                                               1909

 1    overcame and what they achieved for this nation.  

 2    It's really about time that we gave these heroes 

 3    the recognition that they deserve here in 

 4    New York State.

 5                 And again, thank you for this bill.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

 7    you.  

 8                 Senator Borrello to be recorded in 

 9    the affirmative.

10                 Announce the results.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 56.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

13    is passed.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

15    192, Senate Print 1514, by Senator Harckham, an 

16    act to amend the Labor Law.

17                 SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Lay it 

19    aside.

20                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

21    201, Senate Print 524A, by Senator Mayer, an act 

22    to amend the Penal Law.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

24    last section.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 


                                                               1910

 1    act shall take effect immediately.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

 3    roll.

 4                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

 6    the results.

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 8    Calendar 201, voting in the negative:  

 9    Senator Brisport.

10                 Ayes, 55.  Nays, 1.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

12    is passed.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

14    383, Senate Print 707A, by Senator May, an act to 

15    amend the Public Health Law.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

17    last section.

18                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

19    act shall take effect immediately.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

21    roll.

22                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

24    the results.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 


                                                               1911

 1    Calendar 383, voting in the negative are 

 2    Senators Ashby, Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, 

 3    Chan, Gallivan, Griffo, Martins, Mattera, 

 4    Palumbo, Rhoads, Stec, Tedisco, Walczyk and Weik.

 5                 Ayes, 42.  Nays, 14.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

 7    is passed.

 8                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 9    494, Senate Print 7160, by Senator Cleare, an act 

10    to amend the Elder Law.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

12    last section.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

14    act shall take effect immediately.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

16    roll.

17                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

19    the results.

20                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 56.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

22    is passed.

23                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

24    508, Senate Print 5563, by Senator Mayer, an act 

25    to amend the General Municipal Law.


                                                               1912

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

 2    last section.

 3                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

 4    act shall take effect on the 90th day after it 

 5    shall have become a law.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

 7    roll.

 8                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

10    the results.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 56.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

13    is passed.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

15    519, Senate Print 6482, by Senator Webb, an act 

16    to amend the Education Law.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

18    last section.

19                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

20    act shall take effect on the 180th day after it 

21    shall have become a law.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

23    roll.

24                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 


                                                               1913

 1    the results.

 2                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

 3    Calendar 519, voting in the negative are 

 4    Senators Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, Martins, Mattera, 

 5    Palumbo, and Ryan.  Ayes, 51.  Nays, 5.

 6                 Oh, excuse me.  Also Senators Rhoads 

 7    and Weik.

 8                 Ayes, 49.  Nays, 7.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

10    is passed.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

12    567, Senate Print 1015, by Senator Brouk, an act 

13    to amend the Estates, Powers and Trusts Law.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

15    last section.

16                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

17    act shall take effect on the 180th day after it 

18    shall have become a law.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

20    roll.

21                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

23    the results.

24                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 56.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 


                                                               1914

 1    is passed.

 2                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 3    568, Senate Print 3690A, by Senator Sanders, an 

 4    act to amend the Lien Law.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

 6    last section.

 7                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

 8    act shall take effect -- 

 9                 SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Lay it 

11    aside.

12                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

13    573, Senate Print 2091, by Senator Kavanagh, an 

14    act to amend the Executive Law.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Read the 

16    last section.

17                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 4.  This 

18    act shall take effect immediately.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

20    roll.

21                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

23    the results.

24                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 56.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 


                                                               1915

 1    is passed.

 2                 Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

 3    reading of today's calendar.

 4                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

 5    before we move on to the controversial calendar, 

 6    please recognize Senator Fahy for an 

 7    introduction.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 9    Fahy for an introduction.

10                 SENATOR FAHY:   Thank you, 

11    Madam President.  

12                 It's with great honor today, and I 

13    hope you'll join me in recognizing the 

14    Guilderland High School Girls Track Team.  

15                 If you would stand, please.  

16                 This is at least a part of the team, 

17    the Flying Dutch, who just had an extraordinary 

18    victory in the Division I, Section 2 Indoor Track 

19    & Field Championship in Boston last month.  

20                 The Guilderland Girls Track Team 

21    finished first.  They set a new record time of 

22    3 minutes and 56 seconds to win the 1600-meter 

23    sprint medley relay.  

24                 And both of my children ran track in 

25    high school, and I know that this is an 


                                                               1916

 1    extraordinary record.  Couldn't be more pleased 

 2    to have them here today.

 3                 They beat the second-place team by a 

 4    seventh of a second, which is huge.  

 5                 We're joined today by Fiona 

 6    McCarthy, if you'd wave a little; Parker Steele; 

 7    Lauren Burnash; as well as Addison Vellekoop.  

 8                 Two of them will be going on to run 

 9    Division I track:  Parker Steele will be running 

10    with Michigan State, and Addison will be running 

11    with Syracuse University.  

12                 They are also joined by two rather 

13    remarkable coaches:  Coach Chris Scanlan, as well 

14    as Coach Dave Kosier, who also join us here 

15    today.  

16                 They were the only public school in 

17    their heat at the race.  They are now 

18    All-Americans.  They hold the school record.  

19    They hold the fastest time in Section 2 history.  

20    And they hold the New York State record, and 

21    they're first in the entire country in the 

22    1600 sprint medley relay.

23                 It's truly quite remarkable.  My 

24    daughter would be rather envious, I think.  I'm 

25    not sure she hit that time in college.  


                                                               1917

 1                 But this really is an extraordinary 

 2    achievement.  The Guilderland community could not 

 3    be prouder, but the whole Capital Region really 

 4    acknowledges this extraordinary achievement.  

 5                 And Madam President, if you would 

 6    please join me in welcoming these extraordinary 

 7    young women and their coaches.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

 9    you.

10                 To the Guilderland High School Track 

11    and Field champions, congratulations on your 

12    championship.  

13                 I welcome you on behalf of the 

14    Senate.  We extend to you the privileges and 

15    courtesies of this house.  

16                 Continued success to you.  Please -- 

17                 (Standing ovation.)

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

19    Gianaris.

20                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   And now the 

21    controversial calendar, please.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

23    Secretary will ring the bell.

24                 The Secretary will read.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 


                                                               1918

 1    192, Senate Print 1514, by Senator Harckham, an 

 2    act to amend the Labor Law.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

 4    Stec, why do you rise?

 5                 SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

 6    Madam President.  If the sponsor will yield for a 

 7    few questions, please.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Will the 

 9    sponsor yield? 

10                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Absolutely, 

11    Madam President.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

13    sponsor yields.  

14                 SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

15    Madam President.  Through you.  

16                 Senator Harckham, thank you.  I know 

17    that you and I have talked about this bill 

18    offline a couple of times this session, and I 

19    thank you for your efforts in meeting with some 

20    of the constituent businesses that I brought to 

21    your attention that had issues with this.  

22                 So, I mean, my questions really are 

23    in that vein.  We've laid this bill aside before, 

24    hoping to make some modifications to it.  I'm 

25    concerned about a one-size-fits-all approach.  


                                                               1919

 1                 I certainly understand that there 

 2    are industries that have certain problems that 

 3    the bill is trying to address with who is an 

 4    employee versus who is a contractor.  And I can 

 5    understand looking for a hammer to tap down on 

 6    some of the bad actors and the glaring problems 

 7    is called for, and I support that.

 8                 However, specifically the concerns I 

 9    have are in that last-mile courier.  A business 

10    in my district has expressed concerns last year 

11    and again more recently this session about, you 

12    know, finding themselves in a spot.  They are 

13    moving life-saving medicines with shelf lives 

14    and, you know, need to be temperature-controlled.  

15    And, you know, they are literally a Johnny on the 

16    spot to move important medical supplies.  

17                 And if somebody makes an accusation 

18    that, hey, this person isn't a contractor, 

19    they're an employee -- which again, in that 

20    industry, it's the nature of their industry that 

21    a lot of them are indeed contractors.  But all it 

22    takes is one complaint, and now that business is 

23    on the hook to resolve this in 72 hours or they 

24    could be shut down.  

25                 And the concern is that these 


                                                               1920

 1    medicines that need to get moved, they're going 

 2    to simply relocate to another courier and it's 

 3    not going to be a three-or-four-day shutdown 

 4    until you get it resolved and then go back to 

 5    work.  It can potentially bankrupt these last -- 

 6    this segment of all employers.

 7                 So my question is, have you met 

 8    recently with -- I know NFIB has put out a memo 

 9    in opposition, I think largely due to these kinds 

10    of concerns.  What is the status of, you know, 

11    the conversations you've had with the people that 

12    I'm talking about?  And is there a hope of 

13    further tweaking this so that we -- again, I'm 

14    looking -- I'm afraid we're going to catch fish 

15    in this net that we don't intend to catch.

16                 Thank you.

17                 SENATOR HARCKHAM:   Thank you, 

18    Madam President.  

19                 And thank you, Senator, for the 

20    meetings, for the discussion.  There's a lot to 

21    unpack in your question there.  

22                 So if I may -- and thank you, 

23    Madam President -- that while yes, we talk about 

24    misclassification primarily in the context of the 

25    construction industry, the Department of Labor 


                                                               1921

 1    estimates, Madam President, that 870,000 workers 

 2    in New York State are misclassified.  Which is I 

 3    think, you know, a broad swath of workers.  

 4                 And I think one of the reasons why 

 5    we passed this bill unanimously last year is that 

 6    this bill resonates with all of us and through 

 7    our organized labor contacts.

 8                 But I think the important thing to 

 9    recognize is that there is a process here, that 

10    someone is not just going to show up one day and 

11    shut a business down, whether they be a last-mile 

12    courier or whether they be a construction site.  

13                 There will be an investigation 

14    first.  And the standard is knowingly 

15    misclassified.  So if we're talking in the 

16    courier spaces, someone's a contractor, you've 

17    got, you know, bring someone in for a day to 

18    replace someone -- you know, we understand those 

19    things happen.  That's not knowingly 

20    misclassifying.  Right?  

21                 What the Department of Labor is 

22    going to look for is a pattern, and then they 

23    will inform that employer that they do indeed 

24    have a finding and they have 72 hours to cure 

25    that finding.  


                                                               1922

 1                 So if it's a group of employees, get 

 2    them paid.  If it's a group of couriers, get them 

 3    reclassified.  You've got three business days to 

 4    do that, 72 hours.

 5                 So in fact I did meet -- to your 

 6    question have I continued to meet, I had a 

 7    meeting with the last-mile couriers' lobbyist 

 8    today.  It goes to prove there's a lobbying group 

 9    for everyone.  The last-mile couriers -- as they 

10    should.  They should have representation too.  We 

11    met with them.  

12                 But at the end of the day I feel 

13    comfortable that there's enough due process in 

14    here to protect the businesses.  Because we don't 

15    want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, as 

16    you said.  And that phrase "knowingly 

17    misclassified" I think is where the good actors 

18    can hang their hat.

19                 SENATOR STEC:   Thank you.  

20                 Madam President, briefly on the 

21    bill.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

23    Stec on the bill.

24                 SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

25    Madam President.  


                                                               1923

 1                 Thank you, Senator Harckham, for 

 2    that answer and for your efforts on this.

 3                 I hope you're right.  I just -- I've 

 4    seen how our state agencies sometimes will take 

 5    the law as written.  They're not necessarily 

 6    there when it's drafted; they're not necessarily 

 7    reading the debate or, you know, they don't have 

 8    a window into the sponsor's intent.  

 9                 My concern is that, you know, there 

10    will be debate over what is or isn't intentional.  

11    Lawyers get involved.  And asking a business, a 

12    small business to rectify something in 72 hours 

13    or you're going to lose all your business and 

14    potentially not survive that closure, I think -- 

15    I'm a little concerned about it.

16                 I wholeheartedly agree that there's 

17    need for this elsewhere, which is why I voted in 

18    favor of it last year, as we all did.  But having 

19    this come to light, I'm concerned that it's a 

20    little too broad for now.  

21                 I hope that, you know, in the 

22    legislative process with our partners down the 

23    hall maybe further amendments will be worked in.  

24    But until that happens, because of the concerns I 

25    have expressed, I'm going to be no on this bill.


                                                               1924

 1                 But again, recognizing that the bill 

 2    does achieve a lot of other necessary things, and 

 3    I appreciate your effort.

 4                 Thank you.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

 6    you, Senator.

 7                 Are there any other Senators wishing 

 8    to be heard?

 9                 Seeing and hearing none, the debate 

10    is closed.  The Secretary will ring the bell.

11                 Read the last section.

12                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 2.  This 

13    act shall take effect on the 180th day after it 

14    shall have become a law.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

16    roll.

17                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

19    Ramos to explain her vote.

20                 SENATOR RAMOS:   Yeah, thank you, 

21    Senator Persaud -- Madam President.  

22                 I rise to applaud my colleague 

23    Senator Harckham on this bill, and I really pray 

24    that it becomes law.

25                 This is really about leveling the 


                                                               1925

 1    playing field for good business.  We want bad 

 2    businesses to close.  And if they are indeed 

 3    misclassifying their workers purposefully, well, 

 4    we want to make sure that they are being held 

 5    accountable to the letter of the law.  

 6                 We in fact have several bills 

 7    working through the Labor Committee and through 

 8    the Legislature on this topic, and we want to 

 9    make sure that workers have real tools in order 

10    to pursue the justice that they deserve.

11                 I really believe that enforcement of 

12    misclassification of workers isn't even just 

13    enough alone.  We want to be able to make sure 

14    that there are clear standards in order for these 

15    workers to be able to regain the rights and 

16    perhaps even pay, or other recourse, so that 

17    they're able to be restored as the real employees 

18    they are.  

19                 There are far too many industries 

20    specifically in the digital age that are taking 

21    advantage of this misclassification.  And it is 

22    my hope that in this Legislature, and with the 

23    Governor's help, we'll be able to right the 

24    wrongs in the economy and make sure every worker 

25    is protected.


                                                               1926

 1                 Thank you.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

 3    you.

 4                 Senator Ramos to be recorded in the 

 5    affirmative.

 6                 Senator Martins to explain his vote.

 7                 SENATOR MARTINS:   Thank you, 

 8    Madam President.  

 9                 I rise to support the legislation.  

10    As a cosponsor, I want to thank the sponsor for 

11    this piece of legislation.  

12                 And of course I encourage everyone 

13    to consider the concerns that have been voiced 

14    here by our colleagues with regard to the 

15    application.

16                 But there are several victims when 

17    people are misclassified.  One, most importantly, 

18    is the worker himself, who oftentimes doesn't 

19    have access to workers' comp and is at risk.  

20    That should be a concern for everybody in this 

21    room.

22                 Two, it's every other business in 

23    New York State that has to make up the difference 

24    in the costs of doing business in New York State.  

25    And we all know how expensive it is in New York 


                                                               1927

 1    for our businesses to make ends meet, insurance 

 2    being amongst the most costly.

 3                 And so again, compliments to my -- 

 4    to the sponsor and to our colleague.  But it's an 

 5    important bill.  Let's address some of the issues 

 6    that were voiced here today to the extent that we 

 7    can.  But let's not forget, this is about 

 8    protecting businesses and, most importantly, 

 9    protecting the workers of our state.

10                 I'll vote aye.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Thank 

12    you.

13                 Senator Martins to be recorded in 

14    the affirmative.

15                 Senator Stec to explain his vote.

16                 SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

17    Madam President.  

18                 Just by the way of trying to be 

19    constructive and offer a solution here, page 1, 

20    one word change on the bill, page 1, lines 22 to 

21    24:  "Within 72 hours after the employer's 

22    opportunity to come into compliance, if the 

23    employer has not come into compliance, the 

24    commissioner shall issue a stop-work order 

25    requiring the cessation of all business 


                                                               1928

 1    operations of the employer at every site at which 

 2    the violation occurs."  Wow.  

 3                 Change the word "shall" to "may."  

 4    It would give everyone the flexibility that they 

 5    want here, but at the same time give some 

 6    regulator the opportunity to apply a little 

 7    common sense to realize, hey, this isn't the time 

 8    to issue a stop-work order and shut down every 

 9    operation for a last-mile courier.  

10                 So that one-word suggestion would 

11    get me from a no to a yes.  

12                 Thank you, Madam President.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

14    Stec to be recorded in the negative.

15                 Announce the results.

16                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

17    Calendar 192, voting in the negative are 

18    Senators Stec and Walczyk.

19                 Ayes, 54.  Nays, 2.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

21    is passed.

22                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

23    568, Senate Print 3690A, by Senator Sanders, an 

24    act to amend the Lien Law.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 


                                                               1929

 1    Murray, why do you rise? 

 2                 SENATOR MURRAY:   Thank you, 

 3    Madam President.  

 4                 Would the sponsor yield for a quick 

 5    clarification question.  

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Will the 

 7    sponsor yield?

 8                 SENATOR SANDERS:   Absolutely.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The 

10    sponsor yields.  

11                 SENATOR MURRAY:   Thank you, 

12    Senator.  Good afternoon.

13                 SENATOR SANDERS:   Good afternoon, 

14    sir.  How are you?

15                 SENATOR MURRAY:   I'm good.  I'm 

16    good.

17                 SENATOR SANDERS:   Great.  Great.

18                 SENATOR MURRAY:  And I think I know 

19    the answer, just want to clarify.  

20                 On the original bill, you had -- the 

21    language said that in regards to the time frame 

22    for which the demand for payment be made, the 

23    Lien Law says 30 days.  You had changed that to 

24    60 days, I believe in the A print.

25                 And can you just confirm that that 


                                                               1930

 1    change has been put back?  Is it in fact 30 days 

 2    now in the A print?

 3                 SENATOR SANDERS:   I'll 

 4    double-check.  

 5                 The short answer is yes.  After 

 6    hearing from my colleagues -- I'm a reasonable 

 7    man.  Why not?  

 8                 (Laughter.)

 9                 SENATOR MURRAY:   Thank you.  

10                 Madam President, briefly on the 

11    bill.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Senator 

13    Murray on the bill.

14                 SENATOR MURRAY:   I just want to say 

15    thank you.  That's -- that's the way it's 

16    supposed to be done.  You know?  You introduced 

17    the bill, we had some concerns, there were 

18    industry concerns, there were concerns on this 

19    side of the aisle.  

20                 You listened to them, you made 

21    changes that I think makes it a better bill, and 

22    I'm proud to vote in favor of the bill.

23                 Thank you, Senator.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Are 

25    there any other Senators wishing to be heard?


                                                               1931

 1                 Seeing and hearing none, the debate 

 2    is closed.

 3                 The Secretary will ring the bell.  

 4                 Read the last section.

 5                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 3.  This 

 6    act shall take effect on the 180th day after it 

 7    shall have become a law.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Call the 

 9    roll.

10                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   Announce 

12    the results.  

13                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

14    Calendar 568, voting in the negative are 

15    Senators Ashby, Borrello, Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick, 

16    Chan, Griffo, Lanza, Martins, Ortt, Rhoads, Stec, 

17    Tedisco, Walczyk, Weber and Weik.

18                 Ayes, 42.  Nays, 14.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   The bill 

20    is passed.

21                 Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

22    reading of today's controversial calendar.

23                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Is there any 

24    further business at the desk?

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   There is 


                                                               1932

 1    no further business at the desk.

 2                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Earlier start 

 3    tomorrow, my colleagues.  

 4                 I move to adjourn until tomorrow, 

 5    Tuesday, March 31st, at 11:00 a.m.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:   On 

 7    motion, the Senate stands adjourned until 

 8    Tuesday, March 31st, at 11:00 a.m. 

 9                 The Senate stands adjourned.

10                 (Whereupon, at 3:58 p.m., the Senate 

11    adjourned.)

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