JOINT LEGISLATIVE HEARING In the Matter of the 2025-2026 EXECUTIVE BUDGET ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS/ GENERAL GOVERNMENT

And my colleague Tom O'Mara, who's the ranker on Finance, will introduce his members.

(Off the record.)

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Go ahead, Senator.

SENATOR O'MARA:Thank you.

Good morning. On the Republican side of the aisle we are joined by Senator Alexis Weik, our ranking member on Local Governments; Senator Steve Chan, ranking member on Cities 1; Senator Mark Walczyk, ranking member on Cities 2; and Senators Rob Rolison and George Borrello.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Assemblyman Ra.

ASSEMBLYMAN RA:Good morning.

We have Assemblyman Ari Brown, who is our ranking member on Local Governments; Assemblymember Lester Chang, who is our ranking member on -- we don't have Cities 1 and 2, we just have Cities. He's our ranker on Cities.

And we have also Members Beephan, Tannousis, Gallahan, and Brook-Krasny.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Today looks like it will be a long day, so we have time limits in place which will be strictly enforced. The time limits are, for witnesses, government witnesses get 10 minutes to testify, nongovernmental witnesses get three minutes. The chairs of the committees relevant to each governmental witness will get 10 minutes for questions and a second round of three minutes if desired.

Ranking members of these committees will each get five minutes.

All other members of the relevant committees will get three minutes and no follow-ups.

To all witnesses: All written testimony has been submitted to the Legislature in advance, so we ask that all witnesses please do not read your written testimony to us. Instead, please summarize.

To all legislators: Please let myself or Senator Krueger know if you wish to question each witness or panel of witnesses. After the opening remarks of each witness or panel of witnesses have been concluded, the list will be closed.

Everyone, witnesses and legislators, should locate the time clocks, which are conveniently located throughout this room. Please note that when the clock winds down to zero, you will be alerted that your time is up. And I don't want to seem rude, but I will interrupt you.

Please be considerate and respectful of the clock so that everyone has a chance to be heard. Please note that these time frames for questioning include both questions and answers. So members are respectfully requested not to commence a question with insufficient time on the clock to permit the witness to answer.

Due to the length of our hearings, we have no alternative but to strictly enforce these time limits. I should add that if there's any witness now or later in the day that has not yet registered, please do so at the top of the stairs.

I will now call the first witness, the Honorable Eric Adams, mayor of the City of New York.

Mr. Mayor.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:{Mic off} -- back to Albany, and to Cities Chairs Sepúlveda and Burke, Local Government Chairs Martinez and Jones, and members of the Assembly Ways and Means and Senate Finance committees.

My name is Eric Adams. I'm the mayor of the City of New York. And I'm proud to be here today with my team: Jacques Jiha, director of our Office of Management and Budget; First Deputy Mayor Maria Torres-Springer; Deputy Mayor for Intergovernmental Affairs Tiffany Raspberry; and former State Senator and Senior Advisor to the Mayor Diane Savino.

Since day one we've been clear in this administration our mission has been to make New York City a safer, more affordable city that is the best place to raise a family. While we have to do more, we have made significant progress. Crime is down on our streets and in the subways. In 2024, homicides and shooters reduced for the third consecutive year -- and are both down double digits since we came into office.

And what's more, our January crime stats are now out, and for the second month in a row overall crime in our city is down by double digits. Last month crime was down 17 percent above ground and 36 percent below ground. Shootings were also down 22 percent last month, continuing the steady decrease we've seen. And we've removed over 20,000 illegal guns off our streets.

We currently have an all-time-high number of jobs in our city and broke the record for the most jobs in New York City's history eight times over the course of our administration. And this is important: Unemployment has dropped among all demographics in general, but specifically Black and brown unemployment has dropped close to 20 percent.

These achievements would not be possible without our strong fiscal management. We have delivered three balanced budgets. The nation's leading independent credit rating agencies have affirmed our strong fiscal standing. And our most recent preliminary budget includes the largest-ever capital plan for housing, infrastructure, schools, libraries and more.

Last year we worked closely with you and the Governor to make progress on every single one of the legislative priorities. Together, we passed historic legislation that protects tenants and gives our city new tools to build the affordable housing needed to take on a generational housing crisis.

We won mayoral accountability for the second time, and we gained legal authority to close illegal cannabis shops. The power you gave us allowed us to close 1300 illegal shops, and we're watching the legal industry profit.

We passed legislation on red-light cameras and e-bikes to keep our streets safe. We removed over 80,000 illegal vehicles off our streets.

And all this builds on our past work, in partnership, to expand the Earned Income Tax Credit for the first time in 20 years; allocate aid to the unprecedented international humanitarian crisis we face together, and so much more.

That is why I'm here today to talk about our shared priorities and how we plan to work with the lawmakers to once again deliver for working-class people.

We're seeking support in four key areas. First, passage of our "Axe the Tax for the Working Class" legislation to make life more affordable for working-class New Yorkers.

Second, passage of the Supportive Interventions Act, to finally allow people with severe mental illness to get the lasting support they need.

And third, passage of measured reforms to the discovery law that would continue to protect defenders' rights while improving the efficiency of our criminal justice system. We know how important it is, and we want to continue to do so.

We also did something significant in our City of Yes for Housing plan, the most significant pro-housing reform in our city's history. We want to continue to move forward and continue to expand and grow in this area, something that the first deputy mayor has been clear on breaking record after record, year after year, on building affordable housing.

And with the help of Governor Hochul and the state's support, City of Yes will invest $5 billion. These investments, combined with our generational zoning reforms, will create over 80,000 new homes over the next 15 years across every neighborhood in the five boroughs.

Working-class New Yorkers must be able to afford groceries, medicine, transportation, and other necessities. Every penny counts to our families, and that's why we're proud that we put $30 billion back into the pockets of working-class people. Over the next three years we will cancel over $2 billion in medical debt for over half a million of our city residents.

But there is much more to do, and much more we can build on. And that is why today I'm asking you to join us in the "Axe the Tax for the Working Class." Assemblywoman Rodneyse Bichotte Hermelyn and Senator Leroy Comrie sponsored these bills. It is significant for New Yorkers. And at the moment when we face a historic affordability crisis, this plan will generate an average benefit of $350, a total of $63 million back into the pockets of 582,000 filers and dependents.

Now, as I said over and over again, public safety is the prerequisite to our prosperity. We are providing even more support for New Yorkers living on the streets and in the subways, including those struggling with serious mental illness and those at risk of entering city shelters, through a historic $650 million plan.

We are adding 900 more Safe Haven beds and 100 Runaway Homeless Youth beds to protect our most vulnerable. We are launching our Bridge to Home program, an innovative model to provide homeless New Yorkers with serious mental illness the intensive support they need.

Our administration has already moved 2800 people from streets and subways to permanent housing, and our partnership with SCOUT and PATH put clinicians with law enforcement officers to continue that success. This is why we're really calling on you to enact the Supportive Interventions Act, which clarifies that a person requires hospitalization if a mental illness is preventing them from meeting their basic human needs of food, clothing, shelter or medical needs. It also will help ensure people remain hospitalized until they are truly ready for discharge.

We are grateful for the Governor's embrace of many of these proposals and look forward to working with you to pass meaningful reforms this year.

Next, we also must do more to ensure repeat offenders are truly held accountable. Well-meaning criminal justice reform has led to an unintended consequence, and this includes dismissal of cases due to minor violations. We need your help in this area, as the five district attorneys have joined us in this initiative.

Finally, as I have said many times, no city should have to shoulder the cost of an international humanitarian crisis on its own. Our fiscal year 2026 preliminary budget is balanced and includes $2.4 billion in savings in this fiscal year and the next, related to the decline in migrant arrivals over the past 31 weeks.

This trend is due to the steps we have taken to put more than 184,000 migrants on the path to self-sufficiency. But we need help. We spent close to $7 billion to care for immigrants and migrants over just three fiscal years, and anticipate spending billions more in the years to come.

While we appreciate the contributions the state has made, we know we have a gap of a $1.1 billion budget shortfall for this program within 12 weeks that we must fill. This is on top of the costs of complying with the New York State budget provision that will cost New York City taxpayers $165 million more annually for the MTA needs and $347 million from lower-than-expected Foundation Aid.

We have high hopes for the year to come. We're looking forward to working with you as we fight to make New York City a safer, more affordable city, the best place to live and raise a family for generations to come.

I look forward to your questions as we go into the needs of the city. Thank you very much.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:(Mic off; inaudible.)

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:Good morning, Mr. Mayor.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Good morning.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:Last year in the New York State budget we budgeted $2.3 billion for the migrant crisis, as you just mentioned. My questions are pretty simple. How much of that money has been spent? How was it spent -- programs, et cetera? And what is the amount left over, and how will that be spent?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Jacques Jiha, the budget director, will give you the exact numbers. But the spending went to all means of care. When a migrant or asylum seeker came into the city, we had to pay for housing, educating the children, clothing, cleaning, security, all the things that an adult would need.

And what we have done, as the costs have come in, we have to return the receipts to the state to be reimbursed for the dollars that we spent and how much we are spending.

Jacques, can you go over the exact numbers?

NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:Yes. Thus far we spent over $7 billion. As you know, the grants that we get from the state is a reimbursable grant. So we spent first, we advance the resources, and then get reimbursement from the state. Thus far we have claimed about a billion dollars, and we have another claim for another 750 --

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:I'm sorry, you've spent a billion dollars of the 2.3 billion?

NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:No. No. We claimed -- we received a billion dollars from the state so far. We put a claim for 750, okay, and we're still working with the state to process all the other -- the rest of the claims.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:So that 2.3 billion that was allocated hasn't been spent down yet.

NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:Every single dollar has been allocated.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:Every single dollar has been allocated?

NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:Has been allocated. The issue is reimbursement, how much we're getting back from the state.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:Okay.

NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:We received so far a billion. We put in a claim for $750 million. And we're putting in a claim for the rest of the resources.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:So you're waiting for the reimbursable from the state to get the -- to spend down the extra money, the 2.3 billion.

NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:Yes.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:It will be all allocated and spent out.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:And, Assemblyman, we still have 46,000 still in our care. And we have successfully moved over 180,000 out of the care and we've successfully brought down the cost of the migrant asylum seeker crisis from our 30- and 60-day program to move people on to the next step.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:Is this contracted out? How is it actually spent? How is it -- through the programs, you mentioned a few of the programs. But how is the money actually spent? Do we contract that out with groups to spend it? How does that work?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:A combination of everything from housing to utilizing small hotel spaces to building out the Randall Island to building out the Floyd Bennett Field to building out Creedmoor, putting up -- placing the tents up into place, paying for food, paying for services. All the services that you could think of, from a combination of city employees to contracts out to individuals.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:How much would you say is out -- contracted out, out of that 2.3 billion?

NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:It's -- most of it is contracted out.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:Pardon?

NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:Most of it is contracted out.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:Okay. And how many migrants do you have in your care from when you started to now?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:We've had a total of 220,000 that have gone through our system. Now we're down to 46,000. At one time we had a high of approximately 97,000 at any given time.

We were experiencing anywhere from 4,000 a week, 8,000 every two weeks, 16,000 a month, that we had to cycle through the system. And we got a lot of pushback when we said we were going to limit the 30 and 60 days. But people did not come here to live in a shelter. They came here to take the next step on the journey, and we moved forward regardless of that pushback.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:Okay, thank you.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Thank you.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Senator?

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you very much.

Good morning, Mr. Mayor.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Good morning, Senator, how are you?

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Just for everyone on the panel, your testimony is getting printed, so you're sitting there going why don't we have the mayor's testimony -- it's coming. So I just want to let everybody know that.

And our first speaker -- excuse me, our first questioner will be Chair Martinez, 10 minutes.

(Off the record.)

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Right, we traded them because Senator Sepúlveda has a conflict. So put your mic on. Ten minutes, thank you.

SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA: Good morning, Mr. Mayor.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Good morning, how are you?

SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA: I'm doing great.

I'm going to sound like a broken record, because I've asked this same thing for two straight years. From 2007 to 2013, the Office of State Comptroller received approximately 41 percent of unrestricted state aid, which is known as revenue-sharing or AIM. In 2006, New York State received $328 million in AIM funding. In his infinite wisdom, Cuomo removed New York from AIM funding in 2011. If New York City had insisted on returning that funding, in the last 14 years New York would have received about $4.6 billion in funding. In the last three years, over $1.2 billion in AIM funding.

Myself and my predecessor on the committee, Senator Jackson, have been fighting a quixotic battle to get New York City involved for this AIM funding. And we have gotten --

(Off the record.)

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:I'm sorry.

SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA: We have gotten -- we have not been able to work with the city to restore this funding. When we ask the administration and leadership about it, they say the city's not pushing hard enough for it.

So how do we get a commitment from the city to get a funding, AIM funding, which will probably be in excess of $200 million, which you can use for a lot of things, I'm sure, in the city, but we can't get the city committed to helping us get that funding for them.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:You were right last year, Senator, and you're right this year. And I'm not quite sure why they're feeling that we're not pushing hard enough for it, because we believe it is important to get it. And we would like to join you and the colleagues up here, particularly those who represent New York City, to assist us in pushing for that money.

And you're right, we need every dollar that we can to continue to deal with the crises that are in front of us.

Jacques, you want to talk about any particulars there?

NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:No. We -- again, like the mayor said, we would very happy to work with you, okay, to make sure that we get this aid. Diane and I were just talking about it this morning, okay, that is how critical we know it would be for the city.

SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA: I've heard -- you know, I've had this discussion before and I've gotten commitments about it. And I don't know if you can sense the frustration I have because there's a lot of money we can get to the city for a lot of programs. And I'm not getting the kind of cooperation I think we should be getting so that we can make the city have even more funding to pay for some of these programs.

So later on you can tell me someone I can speak with. I mean, Diane's been great, Tiffany's been great, but I need to get a real strong commitment so that I can get more money for the city.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Help me -- define it for me a little, Senator. When you say strong commitment and you're not getting the cooperation, help me understand that.

SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA: Well, someone who will reach out with me with the administration, someone who will call my office and say, look, we have AIM -- let's work on this AIM funding. I haven't gotten anything like that.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Okay. Well, I'll do that. I'm the somebody. You know, the buck stops with me. And if you're stating that you're not getting the cooperation you deserve, next week we will hop on a Zoom with the team and I want to get some specificity on what you need to show that we are engaged.

So it's going to start with me, and I will make sure we do the follow-up with the team. I'm responsible for making sure you get what you need so you can deliver for the city.

SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA: I appreciate that, Mayor, and I will be reaching out to make sure that we can make this happen, because it's money that we can use in the city.

The other issue I have -- and I've spoken to your staff about it. Again, to Diane, Tiffany and some of your other staff members about the issue of the property tax reforms in New York City.

The plan that the city came up with and we worked on was going to benefit about 70 percent of New York City residents. The other 30 percent, we'll give them an opportunity to opt in slowly to the plan so that they don't get this large bill. But 70 percent of New York City residents are paying, are subsidizing property taxes for the richest people in New York City. And the system that your administration's plan came to me a couple of months ago was great. But we can't get anyone to follow through -- well, I shouldn't say that. We're not getting this done at the rate that I think we should get it done so that more people in New York City can benefit from a fairer property tax system.

And again, I need your commitment to make sure that we can work this through, because it will be a great cost-saving measure for people in New York City who shouldn't be paying as much in property taxes as other, more affluent neighborhoods.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:And as you know, there's a court case that's currently underway as well. And I'm glad you pulled back on that follow-through, because we have been really banging our heads against the wall to fix a broken system, property tax system, that has been disproportionately impacting particularly communities of color, and I happen to be one of them. Living in Bed-Stuy, I know that I'm paying a disproportionate amount of property tax.

Both Diane and Deputy Mayor Raspberry, they have been on top of this issue. We want to present our proposal as well to find a way, how do we not overburden our communities and further exacerbate this problem?

Tiffany, you want to follow up on that?

DEPUTY MAYOR RASPBERRY:Thank you. We'll be following up with your office in the coming weeks with our updated proposal and legislative language that you can advance here.

SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA: That's all we ask for. Thank you.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Forty years -- 40 years, Senator, we've been fighting this fight. Forty years. And everyone kicked the can down the road. They said, Let's wait until Eric becomes the mayor so we can fix it.

(Laughter.)

SENATOR SEPÚLVEDA: Thank you.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Assembly.

(Inaudible; mic off.)

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:And we've been joined by Assemblymembers Davila and Colton.

Assemblyman Burke.

ASSEMBLYMAN BURKE:Thank you, Chairman.

Good morning, Mayor.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Good morning, how are you?

ASSEMBLYMAN BURKE:Good.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Good.

ASSEMBLYMAN BURKE:So I'm the new chair of Cities. I come from Buffalo, I'm a proud Buffalonian, so I'm getting my head around all these New York City-based issues. I've had the pleasure of meeting several members of your leadership team -- very bright and capable people. So I'm looking forward to continuing those conversations.

I have a few questions, again, as I sort of come in contact with these concepts and New York City-specific issues for the first time. I want to talk about TFA, progressive design, and joint bidding.

So the TFA. Last year you went up in your request for I think $14 billion. Now the new request is $3 billion. That's a pretty dramatic increase, and now we're going to be at 30.5 billion. That's double from what it was. Can you explain why the city needs this?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Jacques?

NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:Yeah, the city needs it because the Governor is asking for the city to cooperate, to provide resources to the MTA. This is our contribution. The capacity that you gave us last year was all used, because we had to make a commitment for class size, for four new jails, and for the BQE. So all of the resources that were granted to us last year were fully utilized.

So therefore this year, as part of our contribution to the MTA, the state is asking us to give $3 billion, but at the same time they also know we don't have the capacity to fund it. So therefore they're giving us the capacity to issue $3 billion in one debt, TFA debt.

ASSEMBLYMAN BURKE:So this 3 billion, this is just going --

NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:It's going to the MTA. It's going to the MTA.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:It's coming in and out. And it's -- and then, you know, when you think about it, Assemblymember, we have a mandate by the City Council by 2027 to close Rikers Island. It started out costing us $8 billion to close it. It has now ballooned to close to $16 billion to close it, to build four jails that can house the current population that we have. So we are dealing with some real capital issues. And as Jacques directly stated, 3 billion came in but 3 billion is going out to the MTA.

ASSEMBLYMAN BURKE:I'd like to follow up on that Rikers Island conversation a different time. Just if you could make a note of it.

Okay, I'd like to jump to progressive design. So we haven't really finished -- we haven't finished fully implementing progressive design now. What is, you know, the driver in expanding it before the process has had a chance to complete?

SENIOR MAYORAL ADVISOR SAVINO:Thank you, Assemblyman Burke.

If you recall, last year at our request the Legislature expanded progressive design-build for the City of New York. In this budget process the Governor has said that she wanted to expand it statewide to all city agencies as well as expanding it to other city agencies.

But I'm looking around here, I think maybe myself, Senator Parker, Senator Krueger, and at the time, former Senator Adams, we were here when -- progressive design-build was born in the Legislature. It was an opportunity to increase efficiency, bring projects sooner to completion, and drive down the cost.

And it's been incredibly successful, and this was an opportunity to first expand it to other city agencies and now to the rest of the state.

ASSEMBLYMAN BURKE:Okay. Right. Good. So and then lastly, I want to talk about joint bidding --

FIRST DEP. MAYOR TORRES-SPRINGER:Assemblyman, if I could just add, we have also already compiled some data on what some of those early successes are with the additional flexibility that we have for delivering capital projects. And already we're seeing savings, we're seeing the limiting of change orders, we're seeing dollar savings -- not just time savings, but dollar savings in the area of about 10 percent for projects.

So we'd be happy to follow up with that data. But any additional flexibility and more tools to deliver our capital projects means that for critical projects, whether it's energy retrofitting for our city buildings or the types of projects to improve public housing, and many others that we're able to build more quickly and more efficiently for New Yorkers.

ASSEMBLYMAN BURKE:Thank you.

On joint bidding, I've had more joint building conversations than I ever thought or wanted to have in the last couple of weeks.

Where is it? Are all parties at the table? And, you know, obviously I hope everyone's negotiating in good faith. But again, as a Buffalo guy, dealing with joint bidding, you know, it seems to be something that continually comes up. Where are we?

FIRST DEP. MAYOR TORRES-SPRINGER:I'd be happy to follow up with that.

As you know, Assemblymember, when we open up the streets we see a lot of things and there are a lot of owners and a lot of jurisdictional issues. So joint bidding in general allows us to operate in a more coordinated fashion in order to get the projects done.

Specifically in response to your question, yes, we are in constant conversation with all of the many stakeholders, contractors, labor and utilities on an improved proposal following last year's extender. And we certainly want to continue that to ensure that any additional improvements that need to be made we're implementing properly.

ASSEMBLYMAN BURKE:Good, thank you.

Lastly, I want to follow up on Chair Jones's discussion on migrants. This has certainly affected my area in Western New York. You know, we've had our own issues, but it's sourced from New York, so New York City to the Buffalo area.

Can you just take me through the process? Because it's been such an issue. You know, my understanding is that most of this was -- some of it, at least, was sort of a callous political machination, you know, sending folks from Florida, from Texas to New York City.

I'm just curious. Like you had this influx of migrants. How are they getting there? You know, was it based on New York City's right to house? And how did you deal with that?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Well, the influx was coming through buses, through planes --

ASSEMBLYMAN BURKE:But buses from where?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:I'm sorry?

ASSEMBLYMAN BURKE:Buses from where? What was the genesis of them?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:From Texas, but they were also coming from other areas as well. They were coming through planes, through our airports. There were federally sponsored programs from the federal government that was doing the same. So there was an accumulation; all roads were leading to New York City and New York State.

And we had an obligation to make sure that no child or family was sleeping on the streets, and we fulfilled that obligation. It was an unbelievable burden. That we received from the federal government, as I stated, close to $7 billion. They gave us roughly $200 million allocated for it, but New Yorkers had to step up and fulfill the obligation.

ASSEMBLYMAN BURKE:Okay. I look forward to working with you all in the future and continuing to work with you. And I would entreat you, come to Buffalo sometime. We'll host you at a Bills game, the only NFL team in the State of New York, so.

(Laughter.)

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Senator Martinez.

SENATOR MARTINEZ:Good morning, Mayor.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Good morning, Senator, how are you?

SENATOR MARTINEZ:I am well, thank you. Hope the same for you.

I just have one question. In the Executive Budget there is a proposal to increase the TFA by $3 billion. This is the New York City transitional funding. It should be -- usually it's a temporary funding that you get for bonding, but there's an additional 3 billion in this year's budget.

One, my question is, why the recurring? And is this $3 billion connected to any MTA capital projects?

NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:That's the MTA capital project, yes. Or the $3 billion will go for the MTA.

SENATOR MARTINEZ:Thank you.

That's it for me, Chair.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

Assembly.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Assemblyman Chang, five minutes.

ASSEMBLYMAN CHANG:Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Thank you. Good to see you.

ASSEMBLYMAN CHANG:Yes, good to see you. And I represent South Brooklyn. Of course you represented the Borough of Brooklyn when you were borough president and Senator, so we both know the borough very well. And both of us live in New York City for a long time.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:And thank you for your military service.

ASSEMBLYMAN CHANG:Well, thank you, sir. And your service in uniform as a transit police too. Both of us served two decades.

This is going to be broad in New York. When you were campaigning as a mayor, you proposed to stop the mega-jail in Chinatown. And of course now you're elected to office and you said you're unable to close it because of the City Council mandate.

Now, right now it's stopped, that mega-jail, because the proposed cost has ballooned up to $3.5 billion. That's what I was hearing from the news report. Wouldn't that be better served to re-look and to have that mega-jail going back to Rikers Island and then save that 3.5 billion?

Have you -- or is there anything in our State Legislature to do something about that to override the City Council mandate? Because this to me is a waste of money and it's a real estate property that we'd be better served to use as senior housing or affordable housing in the Chinatown area, which they desperately need. And a mega-jail in that community I don't think is a well-thought-out avenue.

And Rikers Island is a facility, all we have to do is repurpose it and make it better both for these inmates and possibly as a homeless shelter as well.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Well, we sat down, Assemblyman, with the City Council to point out how flawed this plan is of four more jails in each borough. And it doesn't fit the current capacity of Rikers' population. Ballooning costs to get it done. The 2027 date is not a realistic date; 51 percent of the inmates on Rikers Island are dealing with a mental health issues, 20 percent are dealing with severe mental health issues.

So to build smaller Rikers throughout the city and not fix the problem is a problem.

Deputy Mayor Parker is presenting a real plan so that everyone can see how they must do a better job. Too many inmates at Rikers Island are sitting there not getting their court cases moved forward. There's a bottleneck in the system. And I don't think building four more smaller jails is going to solve the problem when it currently does not fit the current population and it almost has doubled the cost.

And this is in the power of the City Council, not the mayor. We have to abide by the law. And we have had continuous conversations with the City Council about this. I believe what we should be building is a state-of-the-art mental health facility to deal with that 51 percent so we can stop criminalizing mental health issues and start getting people the proper inpatient and outpatient care.

But again, this is a City Council law. It's flawed. We have to follow the law.

ASSEMBLYMAN CHANG:As you mentioned in this testimony, migrants have decreased coming into the city, and you've been closing down major shelters for the migrants themselves, like closing down Floyd Bennett Field. And recently I've been notified that you plan to put homeless women in the family shelter in Borough Park, as well as in the Bronx.

So why are we adding that while you're closing down the migrant shelter? Wouldn't we just stop closing down and just repurpose that?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:You know, the one uniqueness that I've found in government, that I have not found one elected official that's stated, Please, put the shelter here. No matter where we put the shelter, we get the same questions.

When you look at places like the Bronx, where we have over 30 shelters that are located -- South Jamaica, Queens, and other facilities. There's some places in our city that many of you may represent that they have either one or two or in some cases no shelter.

And so it's not our desire to do that. As we deal with the population of migrants and asylum seekers that are here, we still have children and families who are in our shelter system that are long-time New Yorkers. And what we're finding that's even more fascinating, that a lot of the new arrivals in the city are coming from other parts of America. They're not even migrants and asylum seekers. We're finding that other Americans are coming to New York. Our incoming shelter population is increasing at an alarming rate.

And so we have to find places to do shelter, and it's unfair when you have a Councilman Salamanca who has over 30 shelters and then we have another community that may have one or two shelters. It's unfair, and we need to spread out the shelter crisis of long-term New Yorkers and migrants and asylum seekers.

ASSEMBLYMAN CHANG:Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Thank you.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you.

Senator?

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you. We have our new Senator Chan, from Brooklyn, who is the ranker on Cities.

SENATOR CHAN:Thank you.

Good morning, Mr. Mayor.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Good morning. Congratulations.

SENATOR CHAN:Thank you very much. And it's a pleasure to see you over here. You and I were police officers right around the same time on the same job, although in different neighborhoods. I think we see a lot of the same things.

So building on Assemblyman Chang's question, do you have an idea of what it costs to, let's say, service a homeless shelter per man per day, on the average?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Yeah, that number is -- it's a lot. It's a lot.

SENATOR CHAN:Yes, it's about $750, according to some of my own research in various databases, $750 per day per man. That's $22,000 month per person. So what if we give them $200 a day for a month? That comes out to about $6,000. I think that would solve their homeless issue, now wouldn't it?

So now, going back to the jails and the homeless and the migrants, right, I understand that nobody wants a shelter in their district, right? Now, I'm not talking about a district. Do you think there's -- every day we see new stories about violent crimes in the subways, usually a lot of times perpetrated by homeless men. The female that was burned alive in the subway happened just a few blocks out of my district in Coney Island.

What's the sense of reasoning, insisting on putting a homeless shelter within feet of a subway station? I'm talking about 20 feet. When I say feet, I mean 20 feet. I mean, that's like putting a liquor store next to a gun store next to a school. What's the sense of reasoning behind that? I'm not talking about a district. I'm talking about one particular location.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Mm-hmm. So let's look at that for a moment, because you made two important points. You were talking about the cost of housing someone, and that cost can, you know, actually put people into homes. That's why we passed the City of Yes. Because every time you look to build affordable housing, the amount of pushback we get -- everybody says housing is a right, but once you want to put it in communities, not on my block.

So when we passed City of Yes, it's building a little more housing in every neighborhood in the city, the most comprehensive housing plan in the history of the city.

And so yes, we want to transition people out of homeless shelters into permanent housing. We've done that. We moved people off our subway system, as you indicated, into permanent housing. We've built more permanent housing, affordable permanent housing in Year 1 and 2 and single years in the history of this city, moved more people out of homeless shelters into permanent housing in Year 1 and Year 2 in the history of the city. More people participate in the vouchers program.

And so when you say why would you build it near a transportation, that's one of the ideal places to build it. Because many people who are in homeless shelters or many people who need housing don't need to have access to good-quality transportation. That's why you want to pick an identification like that.

And let me finally say this. I'm hearing all this about how dangerous our subway system is. That's not the reality. We have 4.6 million daily riders, an average of six felonies a day -- six felonies a day out of 4.6 million riders. And so no, we don't want to see someone burn to death. No, we want to get rid of those six felonies. We don't want the robbery in our system. We got that.

But we have failed in the perception issue. We have not failed in the criminal justice issue. These cops are working --

(Overtalk.)

SENATOR CHAN:I'm sorry to cut you off. I understand that right now you're converting a storage unit in the Bronx into a 2200-bed migrant shelter as you shut down other migrant shelters.

Why wouldn't you convert that storage unit for a shelter for our own people?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Well, we are -- we are -- first of all, everyone in New York has a right to shelter. So it's not as though we are turning away long-time New Yorkers. We also have a shelter population of long-time New Yorkers. Everyone that requires shelter is in shelter.

So what we have successfully done, we've successfully navigated 179,000 people on the migrant and asylum issue out of the system. We've closed down Ebbets Field -- I mean, we closed down Floyd Bennett Field. We closed down the Randalls Island to turn the park back over to the people. We've closed down even more. We've closed down over 40-something shelters to address the communities' concerns and needs.

Senator, we have actually --

SENATOR CHAN:So why are you trying to build a shelter 20 feet from a subway station where kids and women and our families and elderly have to travel to and from every day, and jeopardizing the innocent victims of -- a lot of times the mentally ill, let's say. I'm not saying that we shouldn't help them, but --

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you, Senator.

Assemblyman Brown.

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:Thank you, Chairman.

Good morning, Mr. Mayor.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:How are you?

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:As I said last year -- well, thank you. As I said last year, it's nice to see the second-best-dressed guy in the state here before us.

(Laughter.)

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:I think we can agree that the first obligation of government is to protect its citizenry.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Yes.

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:And I'd like to thank you for being one of those first responders, a former police officer.

As the grandson of a former FDNY fire chief and as the father of a former volunteer fireman, I have to ask, regarding congestion pricing, why is it that our firefighters are not getting the exemption for this congestion pricing? These guys have to move their cars back and forth all day long to get from one firehouse to the other. What's your opinion on that, and what can we do to rectify that injustice?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Well, I think it starts up here. You know, I'm not the creator of the program. People stop me every day -- and, you know, people don't know all their lawmakers, but they know their mayor, and I get an earful every day.

Congestion pricing is managed by the MTA and the Governor. They will make the determination. We put in for several waivers. We were able to secure $100 million for those areas that have an environmental impact. We were able to get waivers for those with disabilities. I would love to have a slew of waivers, not only for firefighters but TA employees, for teachers, a whole host of people.

But I don't make that decision and I don't make that determination.

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:Thank you, Mayor. But we need your loud voice when it comes to this issue. We love our teachers. Two of my daughters are New York City public school teachers --

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:I'm sorry?

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:I said two of my children are New York City public school teachers.

But there's a big difference when it comes to our -- people who are our first responders. Our firefighters need this exemption because if there's delays in getting to a fire because they're having to move their personal vehicles from place to place.

Your voice should be louder, if I may suggest, and stronger. Whether you have control, don't have control, it would make a big difference. And I ask you to do that.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Well, there's a technical aspect that the president of the UFA brought to my attention, because they have some type of permission of moving their vehicles. And I think there's a cost-saving measure by allowing them to do that aspect of it.

We're going to sit down, we're going to explore it, and we're going to see how we could carry it out. Seems as though there's some type of agreement that firefighters are able to move within the command, that it would save us money if we don't have to buy vans, if we don't have to carry that out. We're going to sit down and see how we can go about implementing that.

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:I appreciate your answer, Mr. Mayor. I think we're kind of mixing up two different things. These firefighters are actually having to pay out of pocket for congestion pricing to move their vehicles throughout the day. It's causing big delays. I think we're mixing up two different issues.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:We agree. I don't disagree. I agree with you on that. And as I stated, the UFA president, one of the firefighters unions, stopped me, we engaged in a preliminary conversation. I'm looking forward to sitting down and hearing their exact rationale.

But, you know, once you start opening the door of waivers, of, you know, police officers are first responders also. Our EMTs. There's a whole host of first responders. But we're going to do everything we can to advocate for those waivers when they are appropriate.

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:Easy solution: Just get rid of congestion pricing. Totally inappropriate, especially for us here in local government and suburbanites.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:The birth came from up here. The birth didn't come from City Hall. That's your baby. (Laughing.)

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:Mr. Mayor, I'm going to move on to bail reform for a moment. In the Governor's State of the State address she commented how recent changes in New York's bail law were giving judges more discretion and there was no need to do any adjustments to the bail law. Your opinion, please. Working okay for us?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Listen, I think the advocates for understanding and making a fair bail system was a righteous fight. Now we should do an analysis to see what are the unintended consequences of that. And one of them is discovery.

When I speak with my district attorneys, they tell us we need to have a closer examination of discovery to make sure that we're not getting any unintended consequences. And I respect the DAs who are calling for that, and we need to reexamine that, and I thank the Governor for looking at that reexamination.

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:Right. But again, in her speech, she actually said she didn't see a need to do any adjustments. And I think we've kind of examined this over the past few years. It's failed and failed miserably. I think it's about time we all get together and do the right thing and do this big adjustment to bail reform.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:The number-one issue for me that we're seeing when I speak with Commissioner Tisch and Chief LiPetri, who does our crime analysis, is that we are having a problem with habitual violent repeated offenders.

When you have 570 people --

(Time clock sounds.)

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Thank you.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

Senator John Liu.

SENATOR LIU:Thank you, Madam Chair.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:How you doing, John?

SENATOR LIU:How you doing, Mr. Mayor?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Good. Good to see you.

SENATOR LIU:I want to commend you first for bringing on some really great people, especially the fantabulous First Deputy Mayor that you have.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:(Chuckling.)

SENATOR LIU:So things are a bit -- you know, it's been difficult, I certainly understand that. But I think most of the city has been running pretty well. And, you know, you've got your own challenges. I think last week we spoke with Chancellor Aviles-Ramos, and she did report a significant -- what I consider a significant decline in New York City public school attendance over the past few weeks.

And my question to you is, do you think there's a particular reason for that, a significant decline over previous years in enrollment in public schools over the past few weeks?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Chancellor Banks said it best, and the current chancellor, who is his hand-picked successor and someone that I work closely with, fully understands that our product must be an attractive product. It must be a place where our children are challenged, it must be a safe place, it must be a place where we are preparing them for the future.

And I think there's a combination of things that may have led to the erosion in population. We're looking at that, the chancellor's looking at that and examining. But we have an obligation to go out and encourage parents to see that we have the best product. We have done that.

Some of the things that we are continuing to do --

SENATOR LIU:I don't think parents -- I don't think parents are worried that we don't have the best product. I think they're worried about other things. I think they're worried about keeping their families together. I think they're worried about possibly what might happen to their kids if they happen not to be home when the kids are supposed to be coming home.

Do you think that's any kind of factor? Is that happening in the City of New York?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Well, we have been clear. And if you are alluding to migrants and asylum parents, if that's what you're doing --

SENATOR LIU:I am.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Okay. If you're alluding to that, we've been clear that children should go to school. If you need medical care, you should go to the hospital. If you are the victim of a police interaction, you should go to -- you should call the police. We have been clear on that, and we will continue to take that stance.

SENATOR LIU:I have reports that there are members of the NYPD asking parents and teachers for identification in front of public schools, particularly around dismissal time.

Do you know of any such actions by the NYPD?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Well, listen. You know, I always say where do these rumors come from. You know, I was not --

SENATOR LIU:No, they're not rumors. I mean --

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:That's not happening. That's not happening. John -- Senator, let's be very clear. And if anyone is giving you a rumor or a lie that New York City police officers are participating in civil enforcement, that is a lie.

SENATOR LIU:Okay. So you're very clear that no members of the NYPD would be asking parents and teachers for identification out of -- out of a general sense of duty?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:That is -- that is not a general requirement --

(Time clock chimes.)

SENATOR LIU:Thank you.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you, Senator.

Assemblyman Ra, five minutes.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Notice how disciplined I've been as soon as I hear that bell?

(Laughter.)

ASSEMBLYMAN RA:Mayor, good morning. Thanks for --

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Good morning. How are you?

ASSEMBLYMAN RA:I'm doing well.

So I wanted to ask about staffing in terms of corrections. You know, we know over the years -- in recent years, at least, my understanding is the numbers were down as much as 25 percent. Where is the current staffing levels in terms of corrections?

Obviously having adequate staffing is safer for both the officers and those, you know, they're charged with the custody of.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Well, first of all, we are at a critical stage in law enforcement in general, but specifically in the Department of Correction. The challenge of filling a job, the challenge of getting people to come into the administration, into the Department of Correction, is at a code red. Many of the current correction officers are retiring, and we're having challenges in filling those classes in the Department of Correction.

ASSEMBLYMAN RA:So are there initiatives your administration is undertaking in terms of recruitment, in terms of retention?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Yes. Two years ago we identified through the department, DCAS, that we were not doing a very active recruitment plan on the thousands of jobs that we've had open. We made each agency identify a real recruitment plan, including the Department of Correction, to go out and actively recruit.

And we're also looking at some of the archaic civil service rules that allow people to have entry into these agencies. Some of the college requirements, some of the restrictions that are put in place, we're looking at to analyze that to sort of incentivize people coming in, and retention.

One way of retention is with the president of the union. He'll tell you we gave a fair contract to make the job an attractive job as well as the 97 other percent of contracts that we settled with civil employees.

NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:Also, Mayor, in the general plan we just added a lot of resources for a major campaign for them to recruit, to go around the city and recruit. So we added resources in the plan for that.

ASSEMBLYMAN RA:Okay. And have you been able to compile any data on corrections in terms of bringing down -- I know that, you know, there were a lot of triple tours being worked, things like that, that obviously nobody's at their best going through that.

Have you been able to start to bring that down through staffing? I mean, obviously those things go hand in hand, having an adequate number of corrections officers so that you don't have people working, you know, double or triple tours.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:You're correct.

And really we treated our correction officers unfairly during COVID, not giving them masks. Many of them were doing triples, as you stated, just the tension of doing that. And we're really pleased with our current commissioner who's there, who has -- she has brought a real humane approach towards not only the correction officers but the inmates. And I'm proud to say I've been -- I have been on Rikers Island more than any other mayor in the history of this city, speaking to the officers, speaking to the inmates, realizing how we could change that environment.

She's decreased some of the violence on Rikers Island, and she has brought that humane approach to it and has brought down the level of overtime. But a lot of that overtime is due to the shortage of manpower that we have to improve the population in DOC.

ASSEMBLYMAN RA:And then lastly, just in terms of some of the crime within the system, I know that there has been a problem with sexual assaults, in particular with female officers. I think we need to do our part in Albany. There's been this bill pending to increase the penalties.

But with regard to that topic, anything going on internally to make sure we're protecting those officers from those type of assaults?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:So important. And, you know, we communicate with a group of correction officers who were the victims of those assaults. And it is imperative that we send a clear message.

And, you know, the district attorney of the Bronx, she has been clear when you assault, sexually or a regular assault, she has been willing to recharge the inmate that's responsible. And that sends the right message, and we want to make sure that's carried out.

ASSEMBLYMAN RA:Okay. Thank you, Mayor.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Senator?

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Sorry. Thank you. We've been joined, since the last time I made announcements, by Senator Parker, Senator Jackson, Senator Sanders.

But next up is Senator Borrello.

SENATOR BORRELLO:Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mayor, for being here, you and your team.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Thank you.

SENATOR BORRELLO:You know, you had mentioned that you have 46,000 folks in your care, but you have 180,000 that you moved out. I'm assuming that those folks with your contract with DocGo NYC, many of those folks were moved upstate, including Western New York, where I am.

We found out at the end of last year, at the end of 2024, that DocGo was canceling their contracts with Western New York organizations, not-for-profits like Jewish Family Services and Journey's End. And we were told that those families would be then moved back down to New York City, but there's been no confirmation.

Can you speak to if those migrant families are being moved back to New York City?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:A combination of -- there was a substantial number of people who moved upstate, they found their way. You have a beautiful place that people want to stay. They figured that New York City's not the only place to be.

And we're receiving a smaller number of people who are coming back down to the city. Those who do, they don't come back into our care, they found their way.

We do intense training, we give them information on how to survive in the city and the state, and many people have found their ways.

SENATOR BORRELLO:But the funding is ending. So those folks are basically on their own. So you have 180,000 people that were sent largely upstate that are now fending for themselves, essentially, which is very troubling.

So I'll ask you the same question I asked you last year at this hearing. Do you think it's time to end New York City's sanctuary policy? Last year the answer was no, it's who we are.

So after seeing the chaos and the expense and now the pain that has been spread throughout New York State, do you think it's time to end sanctuary policies?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Okay. First, that large number, 180,000, did not go upstate. A small number went upstate.

SENATOR BORRELLO:Okay. We still have them, you know, again, without funding that was promised.

So again, don't you think it's time for us to shut off that spigot and stop this humanitarian crisis, as you called it, from landing in New York State?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:First, we need to secure our borders -- I say this over and over again -- and we need to remove those who are committing violent acts in our city and our country. And I think people need to be clear on what the sanctuary city law is, because sometimes people conflate it.

SENATOR BORRELLO:The sanctuary city law is we will make sure that people who have committed crimes are not deported, that they're not handed over to ICE. That's essentially what I think most New Yorkers understand. That's the concern that I have.

And I realize that the landscape has changed and now we have the border being secured, which I think will reduce that flow. But ultimately we still have a lot of people that are here. You know, I was told roughly 68,000 with criminal records here in New York State. We have to address that.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:And the sanctuary city law, Senator, is not what you just described. The sanctuary city law is exactly what one of your colleagues just -- I think John Liu just talked about.

If you are here paying your taxes, living your life here, based on those taxes you pay, you have the right to go to school --

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you, Senator.

SENATOR BORRELLO:Thank you.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Have I got discipline?

(Laughter.)

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:The next set of Assemblymembers, at least, will be limited to three minutes. Please note, members, that this is a budget hearing and please limit your questions to budgetary items. This is not a campaign.

First we have Assemblymember Bichotte Hermelyn.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN BICHOTTE HERMELYN:Thank you. Good morning, Mr. Mayor.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Good morning.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN BICHOTTE HERMELYN:It's great to see you and the whole team here. Thank you. And I just want to quickly thank you and your team for your hard work with the City of New York. It's a progress, given that -- how New York City is overwhelmed with a lot of issues. And it's just really hard to fix something overnight that's been broken for many, many years and many, many decades.

But just want to thank you for that. And also with public safety as top concern -- by the way, good pick with NYPD Commissioner Jessica Tisch. We want to thank you for really addressing those issues around homelessness and keeping the crime rate down.

I have -- and also I want to thank you for partnering with Senator Comrie and I on the "Axe the Tax" as we focus on working-class families and making sure that we're putting millions of dollars back into their pockets to serve their families.

I do have three questions. And the first question is you talked about the asylum seekers. You have about 46,000, 47,000 in the system currently, and I guess over the course of time the number of asylum seekers have -- the gap has decreased.

My question to you is, how -- where are you going to get the money? Like how are you going to continue to support these migrants? I know you talked about the 2.3 billion, and I know there's some money still staggering. But will it take a new budget, or will you continue to support these migrants with the remaining budget that's there? So how does that work?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Well, we have a gap in our current system that we need to fill, in the current budget gap that we need to fill, a little over a billion dollars that needs to be filled.

And our goal is to continue our 30- and 60-day program so that we can decrease that number -- and we're seeing a substantial decrease every day there -- so we can close these facilities and no longer have to pick up this financial burden. But there is a gap that we have, and that's -- that is our ask in Albany.

What's the exact dollar amount?

NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:It's about $1 billion currently. We planned, we budgeted for about a billion dollars that -- of state aid that we will be receiving. But currently the budget doesn't have any resources at all for the asylum seekers. So if we don't get resources from the state, we're going to have a hole of about a billion dollars that we have to backfill.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN BICHOTTE HERMELYN:Okay. Thank you.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Thank you.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you.

Senator?

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

Senator Kevin Parker.

SENATOR PARKER:Good morning, Mr. Mayor.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:How are you, Senator?

SENATOR PARKER:Excellent.

And good morning to your illustrious staff, many of which I know well.

A couple of things, the first of which, in honor of Black History Month, we'd really love to hear about the work that you've done around MWBE and what impact that you think that's made economically, being that we're having a budget, an actual budget hearing. And what can we be doing better on the state level in order to, you know, advance the work that you're doing on MWBE?

And then the second thing is we've had a serious issue last budget in the context of illegal smoke shops in these cannabis illegal places. Like have we made any progress on that? And again, what kind of things should we be doing in the context of our budget in order to help facilitate the proper implementation of our cannabis plan?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Well, first, dealing with the MWBEs, what can you do -- listen to Assemblywoman Rodneyse Bichotte Hermelyn. She started out with half a million dollars in discretionary, she went up to a million, and now we're up to $1.5 million.

What you guys have done around local hiring has been unbelievable. We're now having many of our city agencies look at some of the jobs to make sure you get local hiring. We watch our communities build up and the futures go down of those who are working there.

And our numbers are unbelievable. Michael Gardner, who's in charge, when you look at what we have done under Local Law 1, we are at 33 percent in the city, first time in history in the city, around MWBEs. In fiscal year '24 the city awarded $6.4 billion to MWBE contracts and continues to make meaningful progress.

And so we're seeing a real rethinking of how do we look at women- and minority-owned businesses that can provide services to the constituents that actually look like the diversity of this city.

You had a second question, you know --

NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:Cannabis.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:The cannabis. We came here and asked the state to help us go after those illegal cannabis shops. You did so. And the power you gave us allowed us to close over 1100 illegal cannabis shops. And in the process, the legal cannabis business started doing better.

And so because of the help and the partnership we've had here in Albany, we've been able to close those illegal shops. Those illegal shops were known for robberies, for violence, for quality-of-life issues. And because of the help from Albany, we were able to really rein in the problem.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

Assembly.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you.

Before I go on, we've been joined by Assemblymembers Gibbs and Rajkumar.

Assemblymember Taylor, three minutes.

ASSEMBLYMAN TAYLOR:Good morning, Mr. Mayor, and thank you so much for joining us today.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Thank you.

ASSEMBLYMAN TAYLOR:Last year we gave you all a lot of support to help alleviate the housing crisis. So with respect to J-51, 485 -- I got three in there, right -- how has that been beneficial? And what do you see as the big whole?

But before you answer that one, I want to lean over and look at the 145 project, because the 145 is stopped. I'm not sure if you're familiar with it, 145th. And it's tall. And what we want to do is be able to make sure that it's affordable for the residents that are there.

And what are some of the things that we can do in the City of Yes that will impact that with some of the other tools that we gave you in the war chest to make this possible?

Because Harlem sits at 41 percent as of the last siting, so we're not even 50 percent of Black folks in Harlem. And I represent Harlem, Washington Heights and Inwood. But we want to make sure those numbers are consistent in going up for the working-class people that are there, and affordable.

And the last one is the Mitchell-Lama piece. I'm just throwing it all in. I'm going to get out of here so you can answer, because you've been holding it. And with the Mitchell-Lama, we need help in the biggest way for New York City housing. And you're familiar, you spent a lot of time at Esplanade Gardens. They're in dire need of infrastructure and resources. And how can we help you get that job done as a partnership?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Well, listen, Councilman Yusef Salaam has been a real partner in figuring out how we land the plane on 145th Street. But when we talk housing, it's hard to say without looking at what the first deputy mayor has accomplished.

So you want to talk about some of this stuff?

FIRST DEP. MAYOR TORRES-SPRINGER:Yes, of course. We're extraordinarily grateful for the partnership of the State Legislature with the housing package from last year. And I want to assure everyone that we wasted no time in making sure that we were implementing each and every one of the tools that were authorized last year.

So to your question specifically for the 421-a registration, that entire implementation has been completed by HPD and there are 21,000 units to be unlocked.

For the 467-m program, that is fully operational. We've been already receiving applications, and about 500 units are on their way.

For 485-x, we are starting to really see interest in that program increase. And we are earlier in that implementation process, but we expect that the market will also take hold and we'll start seeing those programs move forward.

For J-51, HPD, working very feverishly on making all of the application materials available. We recently were able to get the home rule and work on the home rule with the City Council. So that's needed to move it forward.

All of these tools, Assemblymember, are critical to ensuring that we have the financing that we need and then when you combine that with lifting of all of the zoning barriers to the City of Yes --

(Time clock sounding; pause.)

FIRST DEP. MAYOR TORRES-SPRINGER:-- we make more housing.

(Laughter.)

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you.

Senator?

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

Senator Jessica Ramos.

SENATOR RAMOS:Good morning. Thanks for being here.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Good morning, thank you.

SENATOR RAMOS:Mayor, good morning.

Your preliminary budget includes a $300 million cut to early childhood education. Your own EDC estimates that New York City loses $23 billion in lost tax revenue and productivity due to the childcare crisis. How does this cut aid our shared goal of improving affordability?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Yeah, when you look at the early childhood initiative, you've really got to examine what we accomplished. For the first time in the history of the city, 150,000 children were able to get spaces. And as I lived up to my commitment -- every child that needed a seat will get access to a seat -- we fulfilled that. That record number is clear.

We have also reduced the cost of childcare from 55 --

SENATOR RAMOS:Actually, parents are really, really worried about the early childhood education seats that have disappeared. And on top of that, the city has chosen not to renew leases for some childcare centers in Brooklyn and one in Queens. So I'm not sure how that correlates with what your intentions are.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:As I was stating, we dropped the cost of childcare from $55 a week to less than $5 a week. And what's another number that's very impressive, giving access to it -- before the pandemic in 2019, we have 14,000 applicants. Under this administration 43,000 --

SENATOR RAMOS:No, that is not accurate, Mr. Mayor. And as I said, we've had several seats from 3-K cut. There are parents worried that they can't even find a 3-K or a universal pre-K seat that makes sense with where they live and with their daily routine. And that is really where your focus should be.

Here in Albany, we've been improving affordability for childcare. We're now up to 400 percent of the federal poverty line in order to make sure that we're providing subsidies.

I'm going to move on to mental health. When will the $154 million granted to New York City in the opioid settlement money be distributed to the community-based organizations that are on the ground doing the work? We're in desperate need of thousands of supportive housing units. How and when is that money going to be released?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Well, I just want to go back. Your statement about parents being worried, I think you missed the part that I said we broke a record, record, of 150,000 children across our system. Everyone who applied on time had access to a seat.

Not only that, when you talk about the opioid dollars, it was -- Staten Island was not -- Staten Island was approved to get the opioid dollars. Partnering with AG James --

(Time clock sounding.)

SENATOR RAMOS:How convenient.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you.

Assemblyman Mamdani, three minutes.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:How are you, Assemblyman?

ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:I'm doing all right, Mayor Adams.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:(Inaudible.)

ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:Building off of Senator Liu's point, we've seen declines in attendance from immigrant students since President Trump rescinded a longstanding policy that prevented ICE from making arrests at sensitive locations like schools.

To put these families at ease, will you today clearly state that as long as ICE does not have a judicial warrant signed by a judge, you will deny them entry into New York City public schools, hospitals, and any other city property?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:We are examining all the EOs. And based on those EOs, we will never put an employee of the city in harm's way. The corporation counsel will make the determination of the training that we gave and protect not only the people of the city but also our employees.

ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:So the reason I ask this is this is the law as of 2017. And because of the lack of clarity from city leadership, including yourself, we have seen incredible declines of students -- you know, your chancellor was --

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:I'm sorry, you've seen what?

ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:Incredible declines of attendance. Your chancellor has said up to 5 percent; we've heard from specific schools in parts of New York City where it's up to 20 percent. That's why I asked that question.

In the interests of time, just to move forward, you know, today in your budget testimony you spoke about committing to make New York City the, quote, best place to raise a family. Are those the right words?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Mm-hmm.

ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:And on January 16th, however, in your budget proposal you had a $112 million cut in funding for 3-K, and your Department of Education informed five Early Childhood Centers that the city would not be renewing their leases. One parent of a 4-year-old who attended pre-K at Nuestros Ninos in Williamsburg said the news sent them into panic mode. How does cutting funding for childcare, closing those five Early Childhood Centers, make New York City the best place to raise a family?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Well, let's first start with we do an analysis, you should always look how well you're doing from year to year to year. I said it again and I'll say it one more time: 150,000 children, record. Previous administrations did not come near what we have done.

ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:I think the issue is, Mayor Adams, is that these are families -- these are centers that are 75 percent enrolled, these are centers that have been operating, some of them, for more than 50 years. Waitlists, full enrollment, and those parents are now scrambling to find new childcare.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:And let me tell you what we inherited, Assemblyman, when we came into office. We had 30,000 vacant seats that taxpayers were paying for. We had to come in, realign --

ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:But now you're taking those seats away.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:We had to come in, realign the seats to make sure tax dollars were being paid accordingly.

In addition to that, what we found that I'm sure you will be surprised to know, that we had some facilities that were 50 percent full, 40 percent full. We had one facility that --

ASSEMBLYMAN MAMDANI:These five facilities are at 70 percent enrollment -- 75 percent at least, and you're proposing closing them. How do you explain that?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Well, I would, but I don't have time.

(Laughter.)

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:That will remain a mystery.

Senator?

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Senator Weik, ranker, for five minutes.

SENATOR WEIK:Good morning, Mayor. How are you today?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Quite well. How are you?

SENATOR WEIK:Over here (waving).

(Laughter.)

SENATOR WEIK:So you have maintained the sanctuary status of New York City. And with that, with local governments concerned, that has affected governments all across New York State. And that has sent county executives, town supervisors scrambling for years trying to figure out what their next steps were going to be.

And in -- you've received millions of dollars from the federal government, billions of dollars from New York State to assist in the sanctuary status of New York City. And I'm just curious, in the vein of trying to make New York State more affordable, do you have any plans of reversing your sanctuary status?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:I don't control that law. It's a City Council law. And I always will support if people are paying their taxes, that the services that come from those taxes, they should be allowed to get them. But I don't control that law.

I am asking the City Council to modify that law. If you commit a violent act in our city, you have violated your right to be in our city. You should be removed from our city after you serve your time. That's what I believe.

They don't want to change that. I don't control that law. That is not a law that I created. Mayor Koch started it. Mayor Bloomberg made some --

SENATOR WEIK:But you've maintained it. And you certainly have the ability to reverse that in any court that you want. You are the mayor of New York City.

And with that, it does still have an effect --

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:No, Senator -- no, Senator, that's not true. Hold on --

SENATOR WEIK:It does still have an affect on all the counties across New York State. And so counties on Long Island and upstate New York have to scramble to try to figure out are they going to issue an executive order to protect their county because they can't afford the decisions of New York State {sic} when New York State {sic} clearly receives an enormous amount of funding from the state in the state budget every single year -- more so than any counties receive from New York State.

And with that in mind, what are your plans to make this more affordable? Did you look at the Executive Budget and identify things that you could reduce and not have to take that money so that you're becoming more streamlined?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:I do it every day.

But, Senator, we need to go back to your original comment --

SENATOR WEIK:Can you identify any of those -- any of those items within the Executive Budget?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:We need to go back to your original comment that I control the sanctuary city law and I maintain it.

I took great strides to explain that that's the City Council. I do not pass laws. The City Council, that's the level of government in New York. There's executive and there's the legislative. City Council has to make the determination to change that law, not Eric.

SENATOR WEIK:Did you encourage them at all? You're the advocate. Do you encourage them to change that status since you cannot fund it on your own? And even with federal and New York State funding infused into that, and you still can't seem to afford it. It's still a tremendous burden on all the taxpayers of New York State. What encouragement are you giving them to reverse that or make better budgetary decisions?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:I think I took great strides in explaining to you what -- the modification I believe that's needed. But whomever is in our city and paying taxes, they should be able to utilize the services of the city because their tax dollars are paying for it as well.

But when you commit violent acts in our city, you have violated your right to be in our city. And I've made that clear for several years now.

SENATOR WEIK:But you recognize that your sanctuary status and inviting these individuals to come to New York City to be provided for -- when you cannot clearly provide for them -- has created an enormous impact on other counties outside of New York City that now have to provide funding and housing and resources to those individuals that they had not planned on before.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:I'm not -- I'm not -- I'm not quite understanding -- maybe I'm misunderstanding the question. How what happens in the city is making something happen in one of the municipalities out of the city, I'm not getting that.

SENATOR WEIK:So when the migrants came to New York City and were bused out to other areas throughout the state because you had no housing for them but had encouraged them to come to New York City, what -- you know, they were not provided for. And this put an enormous amount of burden on those counties and those towns.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:No. And we allocated resources when we did that.

But I think sometimes people really misunderstand that New York City is the economic engine of this entire state. And the amount of money we send to the state, we don't get back. So we have been lifting up counties for years.

SENATOR WEIK:Living on Long Island, I will tell you that we out-send to Albany. So Long Islanders send more money to New York State than New York City does. And we get a smaller return on investment.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:I'm not sure -- I'm not sure when that happens. That's that tricky math I used to do in school.

(Laughter.)

SENATOR WEIK:I think we're going to agree to disagree on that.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Don't -- don't think for one moment that anywhere sends more money to the state than New York City. We're the economic engine, and we have lifted up this state during difficult times when other munici --

(Time clock sounding; laughter.)

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you.

Assemblyman Fall.

ASSEMBLYMAN FALL:Thank you, Chair Pretlow.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor, for being here.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:How are you? Thank you.

ASSEMBLYMAN FALL:Thank you for the works that you guys are doing.

I sent you a letter last year about adding more NYPD officers on the North Shore of Staten Island. You responded, and you added more officers, so I want to thank you for that. We do need more officers at the 1st Precinct in Lower Manhattan on the other side of my district, so I encourage you guys to please look into that.

Last year I also asked you guys to address the issue at the Carter Center. You changed the provider, and things have significantly changed, and I hear good feedback from the community about that.

Lastly, the fence at Martling in Clove Lakes, DOT made a bad decision. You stepped in, you made a good decision, everybody's happy in Westerleigh and West Brighton for that.

I want to get into EDC, New York City EDC. I have three counties in my Assembly district. When we reach out to EDC about helicopter concerns, they've addressed it and they actually have a long-term plan on how they're going to fix that, and also the resiliency issues, they have a plan. When it comes to the Kings County Marine Terminal, they keep me in the loop of everything that's going on. When it comes to Staten Island, EDC is radio silent and they are failing Staten Islanders with Empire Outlets and with the Wheel site. It's been going on for 10 years now, and I really need some serious intervention.

And I also want to get your perspective if EDC cannot handle what's going on on Staten Island, should we look at maybe New York State EDC possibly taking over the operations of the Empire Outlets and the Wheel site? Any thoughts on that?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Yeah. You know, before coming into office as mayor, Staten Island was called the "forgotten borough." And now you're the remembered borough. Even when they -- with your advocacy, when there was an attempt not to give you opioid money, you stood up and we were able to fight to make that happen, with developing the whole North Shore, what we're doing there. And we're going to make sure we continue to look out for Staten Island.

But I know you're biting at the bit to talk about that --

FIRST DEP. MAYOR TORRES-SPRINGER:I am. Given your leadership and partnership, Assemblymember, it is -- I do not like hearing that any agency has not been responsive or communicative on issues that I think are of common interest.

And so the commitment of Economic Development Corporation to the North Shore is long, and many investments on public ground, and wanting to unstick a number of challenging development projects over time.

But I will personally make sure that you have a detailed briefing, and we can schedule that next week, on all of those aspects. Because we want to not just keep you in the loop, but make sure that you continue to be a partner in the development there that brings homes and jobs to the people of Staten Island.

ASSEMBLYMAN FALL:I appreciate that.

And in my last seconds, I do want to thank you for also closing the shelter at 99 Washington Street. I'm curious to know what's going there next.

And also curious to know if there's any updates with our Staten Island Ferry to Brooklyn. And the Police Museum has been closed since Sandy in Lower Manhattan -- need it reopened. Need your support for BRT.

Thank you very much.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Senator?

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

Senator Roxanne Persaud.

SENATOR PERSAUD:Good morning, Mr. Mayor.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Good morning.

SENATOR PERSAUD:Good seeing you here.

So as the chair of the Social Services Committee, I just have a question pertaining to shelters and the Department of Investigations report that came out in August of 2024. And it addressed some serious issues -- it raised some serious issues. How do you go about addressing the report on shelters? And how do we fix the issue with the overspending that's seen to be taking place in shelters?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:I really want to bring -- all of us lawmakers here, I really want to bring us back to what we inherited. Senator, we were getting 4,000 people coming to our city a week, 8,000 every two weeks. We had to open a space. We had to find vendors that were willing to take on some of these contracts.

The enormity of this problem -- we were being sued by Legal Aid because we weren't finding housing in a certain period of time due to the right to shelter law that was supposed to just accommodate 40,000 people.

What this team did, we had to build a shelter system in weeks, something that took 40 years to build. And so we did, under the leadership of my chief of staff, Camille Joseph, Deputy Mayor Williams-Isom, O'Malley. The whole team came together and said, Let's build a system that took 40 years to build. And during that time we had to find those vendors, we had to find the contracts, and all of us know in government it's easy to look after the game was over and say what the quarterback should have done. But when you're on that field moving that ball down the field -- we did it, 220,000 people, 180,000 no longer in our care, not one child or family sleeping on the streets because of what we've done.

Yes, when you did an analysis, can you do things better? Yes. We were able to bring down the costs. We saved billions of dollars because of what we did. We committed to a 30 percent decrease in asylum-seeker costs. We did it. And this is a learning experience, but I guarantee you when people go back and read this part of the history, they're going to see how successful we were on managing the greatest humanitarian crisis in the history of this city.

SENATOR PERSAUD:So I just want to commend your team for all the work they did in keeping us informed as to the issues that were occurring. That is not -- but I just want to make sure that we respond to what the DOI report showed. That's all that is about.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Yes.

SENATOR PERSAUD:And talking about, you know, Assemblymember Fall talking about the needs of our precincts, I just want to advocate for the six police precincts that I have in my district and the two PSAs. They are wholly understaffed. And as you know, in parts of my district there is a spike in crime and we need the assistance of NYPD.

Thank you.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:We're going to look at that. And I want to thank you for running your bills, my team told me, on menopause.

SENATOR PERSAUD:Yes. Yes.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Assembly.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:We've been joined by Assemblymembers Reyes and Jackson.

Our next person is Assemblymember Dais.

ASSEMBLYMAN DAIS:Good morning, Mayor.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:How are you doing, Assemblyman?

ASSEMBLYMAN DAIS:A little aghast. My Assemblymember Mr. Brown said you're the best-dressed in the Assembly now. I feel a little {inaudible} about that.

(Laughter.)

ASSEMBLYMAN DAIS:I'm going to -- we have a short time, so I'm going to be rapid fire, real quick. I have a construction background. I care deeply about infrastructure in New York. So my question is a follow-up to Chairman Burke in reference to progressive design and alternative delivery. Is it working, and is it the best way for New York City to move forward?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:You want to take that?

FIRST DEP. MAYOR TORRES-SPRINGER:Sure. We are seeing very positive results both in terms of savings on time, savings on money and the limiting of change orders, which often create more expense and delays for projects. And the dollar savings we have estimated at about 10 percent for projects that utilize the tool.

ASSEMBLYMAN DAIS:That's key. And one thing I have been noticing -- and I'm hoping that the city will be able to provide a study on the impact on MBEs, WBEs, specifically segmented into each one. As someone with a construction background we like to talk about WBEs -- women do extremely well -- but when you look at the racial breakdown, Black and Latino businesses sometimes are underperforming in construction. So I want to put a focus.

Joint bidding. It's a complicated matter. I've worked on those type of projects. We've got to get the utilities to the table. What is the city doing with the utilities and the contractors to make sure that we can push an agreement to get an agreement on the table?

FIRST DEP. MAYOR TORRES-SPRINGER:We're in constant and repeated conversation with all stakeholders, including contractors, labor, et cetera, because lots of different players who have to work together so that the objective of joint bidding, which is to reduce complexity, are achieved.

ASSEMBLYMAN DAIS:Thank you.

And to make a quick switch to childcare, one issue we're having in the Bronx and throughout the city is amazing -- my wife's in childcare, she runs it for 1199, and we're seeing an issue with reimbursement payments to some of these nonprofits and organizations, and there seems to be a bottleneck.

What are we doing for this next quarter to help alleviate that issue?

FIRST DEP. MAYOR TORRES-SPRINGER:It is a multipronged approach, Assemblymember.

Specifically on childcare invoices, in the last fiscal year we accelerated about 440 million. But I also want to say in those payments -- but I also want to assure you that as relates to nonprofit payments in general, it includes bringing down the bureaucratic barriers and a new discretionary method to get more funds to not-for-profits more easily.

We have an interagency approach. We have a new executive order so every agency has a not-for-profit point who is focused on these issues. We have been extraordinarily committed to this sector, which is why we also provided a COLA affecting 80,000 workers and bringing more than 700 million in funds to them because our commitment to this sector and its workers is quite strong.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Senator?

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you very much.

Senator Cordell Cleare.

SENATOR CLEARE:How you doing, Mr. Mayor?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:How you doing, Senator?

SENATOR CLEARE:I hope you're well.

I'm good. I want to get right to the questions.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Thank you.

SENATOR CLEARE:You know, we are experiencing an affordability crisis in housing. I'm continuously concerned about the migration of Blacks in New York as well as the burden on older New Yorkers. So I wanted you to -- if your administration can speak to what we are doing to create more affordable housing, affordable to Black New Yorkers and their incomes, as well as older New Yorkers and workforce in New York City.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:So important. And you have been a real strong and leading voice around that. And that is what City of Yes was about. Far too many neighborhoods were a City of No. Every time we wanted to build in those neighborhoods, when you look at 51 community boards, I believe out of the 51, 10 of them build more housing than the other 40-something combined.

And so, FDM, you want to go into some of the specific --

SENATOR CLEARE:Not just building more housing. Building housing that is affordable to Black New Yorkers and seniors.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:That's important. Because -- and you're right, and Black New Yorkers are also teachers.

SENATOR CLEARE:Yes.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:They're also firefighters.

SENATOR CLEARE:Yes.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:And it can't be just extremely low. When I speak to my accountant and my teacher, they're saying, Eric, we're fleeing. When you look at those hundreds of thousands that left the city --

SENATOR CLEARE:I'm talking about both.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:-- they were middle-income Black and brown folks.

So we want to focus on that.

But you want to --

FIRST DEP. MAYOR TORRES-SPRINGER:Yes, I'll just -- I'll mention a few of the highlights because -- on the financing of affordable housing, which has -- the last few years we've seen records broken, because we need to see those records broken to provide more affordable homes to New Yorkers.

However you cut it, the last two calendar years, the last two fiscal years are back-to-back records for not just the construction of new housing for extremely-low-income individuals and for New Yorkers across the income spectrum, but also for housing for the formerly homeless, housing -- supportive homes.

And specifically to your question on senior production, the last calendar year saw the most senior units produced on record for the agency at close to 3,000. And we want to continue that in the years to come.

SENATOR CLEARE:Yeah, there's a great need for more. I just want to ask specifically about TIL buildings in the pipeline and if you can speak about where we're at in terms of transitioning those properties to low-income home ownership for tenants, and also making the vacant units available for rent or sale.

FIRST DEP. MAYOR TORRES-SPRINGER:Yes. I know, Senator, this has been a great area of focus for Commissioner Adolfo Carrión. And so the TIL buildings have been -- they've been waiting for revitalization and to move forward in the process for many years, and so the ANCP program is the answer to that.

(Inaudible; laughter.)

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Assemblyman Epstein.

ASSEMBLYMAN EPSTEIN:Over here, Mr. Mayor.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:How are you doing?

ASSEMBLYMAN EPSTEIN:Good, how are you today?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Good.

ASSEMBLYMAN EPSTEIN:Good. So I want to turn back to the issue of the mental health crisis. And how are we going to get more supportive housing units online in the city to ensure that people with serious mental health issues have a place to live?

Because we see that crisis, we see people getting services, but they're coming back right to the streets instead of getting supportive housing. We need to double and triple those units online. And what's the city doing to make sure that happens?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:You know, you have to inspect what you expect or suspect, I like to say. And the challenge of dealing with those with severe mental health illness -- when I go into the subway system with our crisis team, with PATH and SCOUT, the amount of time it takes to build trust, to get people off the street into the supportive housing -- and then when they get into supportive housing, the challenge that you meet of making sure that they stay in supportive housing. It's a real challenge.

Under Dr. Vasan, we want to embrace the clubhouse model that we've done for some time. But, you know, we removed 7700 individuals that we transported to the hospital. The system that we put in place now under Dr. Katz is that we need the proper handoff. You know, once you give people -- once you convince people to come inside, you have to properly hand them off to the hospital facilities and they have to hand them off with a community-based organization that's going to give them the care, making sure they're getting the support that they deserve. But it's a real challenge.

ASSEMBLYMAN EPSTEIN:Yeah, and I -- I do think we just need to build more units, Mr. Mayor, and I hope that we will encourage that happening this year, to expand more supportive housing units.

But I know I don't have a lot of time. I want to turn to the discharge planning issues that are coming out of Rikers. You know, this gentleman Ramon Rivera, stabbed three people in November in New York; he had been in Rikers, kept for nine months there in a mental health unit. He was released from Rikers to the men's shelter in my district, and then he stabbed and unfortunately killed two people in my district as well as a third person.

There needs to be stronger discharging plans for those folks who are leaving Rikers Island. And what are we going to do to ensure that people who are leaving get to a place that they can get support? The guy just didn't show up for his appointments, and then he was just lost. And then that resulted in three New Yorkers dying.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Without a doubt. And you're dead on. Our analysis, we clearly saw that the system was a revolving-door system. You pick a person up, you take them inside the hospital, in many cases they did not want to keep them in. Then you turn them back out to the street, you wait until they commit some form of violent act, then you put them up in Rikers.

Rikers has become the defunct mental health facilities, and we want to change that. And that's what H+H is trying to do.

ASSEMBLYMAN EPSTEIN:Yeah, we really need to do that.

And the last thing is we put money in for middle-income housing. We haven't built a new Mitchell-Lama development in 60 years in the city. Can we commit to getting more middle-income housing in our city?

FIRST DEP. MAYOR TORRES-SPRINGER:Yes.

(Laughter.)

ASSEMBLYMAN EPSTEIN:Thank you.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Nice short answer there.

Senate?

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

Senator Sanders.

SENATOR SANDERS:Good morning. Good morning, Mr. Mayor. Good morning to your team.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:How are you, Commissioner?

SENATOR SANDERS:I feel real.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:I mean, how are you, Senator?

(Laughter.)

SENATOR SANDERS:It's all good. It's all good. Maybe it's a future thing that you're thinking about.

(Laughter.)

SENATOR SANDERS:Who knows. Who knows.

A statement, a thank you, and a question. First, the statement on MWBE. New York City, with a budget of around $129 billion, has been able to do $6.4 billion in MWBE. New York State, with a budget of $259 billion, has done 3 billion. You may want to -- hey, we need some help, give us some ideas.

And thank you. Thank you for your support on initiatives. I'm very interested in what we're doing for the next generation. What are we doing not just about problems, but how are we going to move this city forward? So I'm very grateful for your help with a media school that we're doing in Queens. Thank you for that.

Speaking of schools, I want to -- you raise an issue, and I'm chair of Banks, so I'm very interested in these things. You raise an issue of banks in schools, an initiative that you're interested in doing. Can you expand a little bit on the initiative? I'm very interested. And in fact we want to be first.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:And Commissioner Mayuga from DCWP, this is her baby.

You know, all of us know -- I left high school with a credit rating that was just dismal, you know. We are now focusing on financial literacy. We want our children to be healthy physically; mentally, by doing our meditation in school, breathing exercises; academically -- but what about financially? If you don't understand how to use your money, you're going to find yourself perpetually in debt.

And so we are now going to partner with banks, other institutions to come in, teach our children how to open up bank accounts, what is checking about, what are credit card interest rates. We're going to have an entire financial literacy program in our schools so our children can become financially sound to match their academics in the schools.

And so we would love to partner with you. I know you've been talking about this for some time. We would like for you to be a partner with us, accomplishing this task.

SENATOR SANDERS:We can recommend two or three schools immediately that would -- could use these things. Are there any other initiatives that you would like to put forward from your administration?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Around young people?

SENATOR SANDERS:On any issue.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Preparing them for the future, partner with our business leaders in allowing them to go into real careers. And we are really making them career-ready in the process. If I could share later --

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:You can finish the sentence (laughing).

SENATOR SANDERS:Thank you very much. Thank you.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Assemblymember Valdez.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN VALDEZ:Okay. Thank you, Chair. Good morning, Mayor Adams.

As was already mentioned by I think a few of my colleagues at this point, we're seeing that students around New York City are afraid to go to school. Attendance rates in public schools has dropped following the Trump administration's change in guidance to sensitive areas.

Do you think it makes New York City a better place to live when our kids are afraid to go to school and parents are keeping them home?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:I'm having a problem hearing you.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN VALDEZ:Oh, sorry. I'll get closer. So -- yeah.

Do you think it makes New York City a safer place when our kids are afraid to go to school because they're worried that when they come home their parents won't be home or that there'll be, you know, immigration consequences to participating in public education?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Yeah. And I think how we do that, how we make it safer and deal with the anxiety and take down the tone is not so much what children are doing, but what adults are doing.

I think that we need to let these children know that they can continue their education -- our administration has stated this over and over again -- of create a safe environment for children. The staff at the Department of Education, the teachers, the principals, they have done that. They have embraced thousands of -- 40,000 children. Some of them pay out of their own pockets to buy clothing, school books, materials.

I think if adults take down this tone and just ensure that these children are going to be in a healthy environment, that's what we've provided. We provided a healthy environment.

Just the other day someone called me and said, ICE is outside the school, raiding the school. It just wasn't true. An adult posted that on social media. And so how much are we contributing to this anxiety that these children are facing?

ASSEMBLYWOMAN VALDEZ:Mr. Mayor, with all due respect, I've had superintendents throughout schools in my district say that they don't feel that they've gotten the guidance they need from your administration to make sure that students are staying safe.

So I just want to make sure that guidance is coming from your administration, understanding with our parents and our teachers and our students, no matter where they come from.

Just in the interests of time, this morning as I was getting ready to come to this hearing, I heard on the radio that when asked if you had any concerns about the changes that are happening at the National Labor Relations Board right now, you said no.

To everyone who might not be paying attention, Jennifer Abruzzo, the general counsel for the National Labor Relations Board, was fired. So was Gwynne Wilcox, a board member. Did I hear you correctly? Do you have no concerns about the changes there?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:No. No, you didn't. But let's go back. Just as you stated that people have stated that we have not done enough, I've heard people say we have done enough.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN VALDEZ:Differences of opinion, perhaps.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:So I always say 8.3 million people, 35 million opinions.

I did not say no. Gary Labarber was standing next to me. The question I said no to was the concerns around tariffs. We have to secure our borders. And we cannot continue to allow terrorists to come across the borders. So I did not say no.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN VALDEZ:So you are concerned about what's happening at the NLRB right now.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:I'm sorry, say it again?

ASSEMBLYWOMAN VALDEZ:You are concerned about what's happening at the NLRB right now.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:I can answer another time. The buzzer went off.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you.

Senate?

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Senator Sanders.

(Overtalk, off the record.)

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:And yet it was Senator Jackson's turn.

SENATOR SANDERS:The better-looking Sanders.

(Laughter.)

SENATOR JACKSON:Well, thank you.

So, Mayor, first, let me thank you and your team for coming up to Albany during our joint budget hearings and all that, and answer all of the questions that are put forward.

I have a couple. How are we doing with Foundation Aid for New York City? Obviously, you know, education is the key to uplift all families. It doesn't matter who you are. That's number one.

Number two, a group of people, advocates, came into my office yesterday and -- about funding at the federal level for autism, for a program that New York City is running. Can you -- have any information on that?

And then I look at your information that your staff have given out about the Axe the Tax for the Working Class. In my district, a majority of the people that live in my district are the working class. And I'm very interested in all of the information that you have on this page.

So those are the questions I have.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:So just the Foundation Aid piece, the changes proposed by the Governor result in the city receiving $347 million less in Foundation Aid in '26. And so we agree with the data, but, you know, any less dollars that come from the state to the city is going to impact, particularly when we look at -- we're dealing with the class size issue, when we're dealing with hiring new teachers. We have to hire thousands more teachers. And so any cut to Foundation Aid is going to impact us greatly.

SENATOR JACKSON:Okay. And the other ones about autism --

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:I'm sorry?

SENATOR JACKSON:The autism program has been cut by DOE. A group came into my office yesterday speaking about that, and they wanted to know what you're doing about federal cuts to the -- federal cuts. Yeah, that's what they said.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Yeah, all of these EOs we are examining to make sure our legal team are looking over them, to make sure that we're responding accordingly. And we're going to always fight to get the funding that we need from not only Washington, D.C., but Albany as well. New York City residents, we are fighters for every dollar we need.

SENATOR JACKSON:Okay. And as I said to you, the working class is the majority of the people that I represent. And I'm just trying to look after their best interest.

So thank you.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Thank you very much.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

Assembly.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Assemblywoman Shimsky? Who is no longer with us. Assemblywoman González-Rojas? She left. Assemblyman Beephan?

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Oh, no, she is there.

(Overtalk.)

ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS: There we go. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Thank you.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS: Timely processing for cash assistance applications in New York City sits at a meager 53 percent. SNAP processing is far below the 95 percent target. I just learned that city workers are living in shelters.

You say you want to address affordability for New Yorkers, but your Rent guidelines Board has increased the rent each year since you began. You fought the City Council on housing vouchers that would prevent homelessness. And public assistance applications are still not processed at the rate they should be.

How are those moves addressing affordability for everyday New Yorkers?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:I didn't get -- I don't know, the mikes up there, I can't really hear that well. But I think you were talking about our housing vouchers.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS: The housing vouchers, the slow applications for cash assistance, which is now at 53 percent. SNAP processing is still below the 95 percent rate. And many city workers, I just learned, are actually living in shelters because they can't afford to live here.

So how do these moves support your affordability goals in New York City?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Yeah. No, thank you for that. And Senator, when I was a Senator, I was hearing about city employees living in shelters.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS: I'm an Assemblymember.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Assemblywoman. I was hearing about city employees living in shelters.

That's why when you look at what we did in settling 97 percent of our contracts with 97, 98 percent ratification rate, one of our largest unions, DC37, would tell you how much we wanted to give fair contracts to our city employees. Because I know what it is to be on the verge of homelessness.

So we have -- FDM, go into some of these stats on cleaning up our backlogs that we've had.

FIRST DEP. MAYOR TORRES-SPRINGER:Yes, of course. We've been really focused, Assemblywoman, on making sure that those backlogs that existed when we started in this administration for both SNAP and cash have been cleared.

And so to be specific about it, as a result of that increased focus over the past year for SNAP, the timeliness rate has increased 27 percentage points from 51 percent in December '03 to 86 percent. And in terms of cash assistance, the timeliness increased by 39 percentage points. There's more --

ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS: But it's still at 53 percent. That's very low.

FIRST DEP. MAYOR TORRES-SPRINGER:There might be more work to do, but I can assure you that the good people at HRA and across city agencies are spending every day, because they know that these are lifelines, making sure that they're cleared and we keep increasing those rates.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS: Mr. Mayor, I do want to hear from you directly about how you are targeting and addressing affordability. We know that's the number-one issue in our city and in our state.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:And as you stated, the numbers are still low. We're getting a larger volume of people who are applying. Everything from paying medical debt to --

(Time clock sounding.)

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Senate?

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

Senator Julia Salazar.

SENATOR SALAZAR:Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor, for your testimony today.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Thank you, Senator. Good to see you.

SENATOR SALAZAR:Good to see you.

Senator Ramos referenced this, but I have to return to it since it particularly impacts my district. City Hall has declined to renew the leases of two childcare centers in my district, Nuestros Ninos in Williamsburg and Grand Street Settlement's Stanhope Street location. Both of these childcare centers are models for quality childcare in New York City. High enrollment at both -- in fact, full enrollment with a waiting list at the Grand Street site.

Forcing these centers to close would devastate the families that they serve, it would hurt the union workers, the childcare providers who work there, and it would exacerbate the lack of affordable childcare options that we are dealing with in the city.

What will you do to ensure that these childcare centers can stay open? And what would you say to families affected by this decision?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:We -- and I spoke with Attorney General Letitia James yesterday about this, and other electeds on this, including Borough President Reynoso.

And so what we look at, we look at three items. Number one, are you reaching the capacity of the young people in your childcare center? Because we have 30,000 empty seats. We have to reconfig.

Number two, what is the cost? One landlord is trying to jump the rent from $30,000 a month to $80,000 a month.

Number three, do you have other childcare centers in the area? Because many of these childcare centers were densely populated and we were having low enrollment.

Those five centers didn't meet any of those items -- didn't meet those three items, I should say. And so what we're doing now, I told the chief of staff, let's sit down with the electeds in the area and let's figure out what we can do to resolve this issue.

But we're going to need help, because too many of our children who should be in these centers, we're now recruiting them to get them in. The City Council partnered with us. We're using a large amount of money, millions of dollars, to get children in. But we can't have centers occupied with 40 percent vacancy and you have other centers in the area, which is feeding that crisis that we saw when we first came into office.

So I would like for you to be part of this team with Chief of Staff Camille Joseph Varlack and the chancellor and see how we can resolve this issue.

SENATOR SALAZAR:Thank you. I look forward to continuing that conversation.

With the time I have left, there are recruitment and retention issues for civil service jobs across the state. Right? We know this. Currently New York State law does not allow non-U.S. citizens to hold a number of public service positions, certain public service positions in state law, although many people are interested in serving and are uniquely qualified to serve their communities.

We know that this has affected the City of New York. There's a vacancy rate for public-sector jobs. Would you support changing state law --

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you, Senator.

SENATOR SALAZAR:Okay.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Assemblywoman Seawright.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Hello, Mayor.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:How are you?

ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:As chair of the Aging Committee, I'm hearing a lot from older constituents in my district on the Upper East Side that have reported serious injuries due to electric bicycles, including on the sidewalk.

So what changes could be made with the NYPD to support enforcement of existing laws in apprehending these people?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:I have not attended one senior center, one forum, one community group when this question did not come up. I'm surprised it took this long, because I hear it all the time.

And I instructed the NYPD under Deputy Commissioner Kaz Daughtry to put in place a real plan with Chief of Patrol John Chell, to go after them.

We have removed over 80,000 illegal vehicles off our streets. Many of them are dirt bikes, three-wheelers. You go back two, three years ago, they were running rampant. Large motorcycle gangs was going through our streets. You don't see that anymore.

Now we're zeroing in on those who are delivery workers, those who are, you know, just using it for transportation, and we're doing better enforcement and educating those who are utilizing this effort to go after the proper uses of e-bikes.

This is a real concern. We've heard it over and over again. And we want to make sure that it's handled correctly, and they're doing that as well.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:Thank you.

I know you're a proud graduate of John Jay College of Criminal Justice. In an effort to tap into the pipeline of young people interested in law enforcement careers, the current Police Cadet Program has under 250 participating in it. So is this something that you could ask your new highly regarded Police Commissioner Tisch to take on, looking into expanding greatly this program for the five boroughs?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Yes, without a doubt. I think it's -- it's probably the secret weapon to how we've improved relationships between police and young people. The Cadet Program, the Explorer Program, those are excellent programs, and we would like to see it increase and expand even more.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:And lastly, I have Roosevelt Island in my district. I thank you for visiting a while back.

The constituents are interested in priority boarding on the tram. As you know, Roosevelt Island was originally invented for people with disabilities and they're incurring long, long wait lines due to the visitors to the island, and tourists.

Would you support priority boarding? Community Board 8 has passed a resolution in support of it.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Tell me that again?

ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:Would you support priority boarding of the tram on Roosevelt Island for local residents of the island?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Before I say yes, I need -- oh.

(Time clock sounding.)

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you, Assemblywoman.

Could I just remind everyone, when you see the yellow light, that means you have 30 seconds remaining. If you continue your question through the yellow light, you don't leave any time for a response. Which just happened.

Senate.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

Senator Rolison.

SENATOR ROLISON:Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good morning, Mr. Mayor and the team.

A lot has been said -- the Governor's talked about it, you have been an advocate for it, the involuntary commitment of the individuals who are in crisis on your streets, our streets. And it is a larger problem than just talking about it. You mentioned, Mr. Mayor, correctly, that these individuals, multiple interactions, it's very difficult to get them to want to get help.

And what do you see, and your team sees, as the buildout of this system needs to happen? You know, you've got the people trained, on the streets, as many communities do. But after -- and they're ready to make a commitment or they have to be taken in custody, so to speak, on a commissioner's order or whatever, to go to an involuntary commitment or even any commitment, for that matter, Mr. Mayor.

What does that infrastructure look like? And what does this state need to do to help you and other communities get there? It's one thing to talk about it, but what else do we need to do as a state to create that system?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Great, great question. And that's why we're really pushing the Supportive Intervention Act, because it starts with family members who want to refer their loved ones to care and not just push them to the streets.

And there's not a real well understood pipeline to accomplish that. And so we first must make sure our programs like SCOUT and PATH must partner with clinicians and law enforcement officers when they need it, to get people to the hospital to get care when it's needed.

And then our hospital staff must have clarity codified in law that they can hold people to the appropriate amount of time, not feel they have to release them right away. You give someone their medication, they go right back out into the street when it's one day. We should look at their history, are they using drugs with the medication that they're receiving, and give them a period of time to hold them. And then the proper hand-off.

The community-based groups and organizations that are out there that can give them that continuing care to make sure that they get the support that they deserve, that they don't slip and fall back into the system. That is how we address this problem.

SENATOR ROLISON:And briefly, if that was all ready to go today, are the supportive beds available?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Well, we put back online our psychiatric beds. Many went offline after COVID. We need our private hospitals also to do so. And we have to continue to build out to get those supportive beds. And everyone needs to embrace it. When we try to put supportive beds or supportive housing in certain locations, there's a lot of pushback. And we need to know that these are our citizens, they're our residents, our neighbors, and we need to be there to allow them to be part of the community.

SENATOR ROLISON:Thank you.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Assemblyman Beephan.

ASSEMBLYMAN BEEPHAN:Good morning.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:How are you?

ASSEMBLYMAN BEEPHAN:Good, thank you.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Good.

ASSEMBLYMAN BEEPHAN:So back to your favorite topic, migrants. Mostly particular to Dutchess County.

So in 2023 your administration transferred both adult and children migrants to Dutchess County. My questions are pertaining to the adults that are currently housed at the Red Roof Inn. It led to litigation and executive orders and all of that. But in December there was an announcement from your office stating that the migrants from Dutchess County were going to be transferred out.

What is the status of that transfer?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Now, they're in your county? Help me understand.

ASSEMBLYMAN BEEPHAN:Correct. Yup, Dutchess County. Poughkeepsie.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:They're in Poughkeepsie.

ASSEMBLYMAN BEEPHAN:Correct.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:And you're saying they're going to be transferred back --

ASSEMBLYMAN BEEPHAN:Correct. Yeah, by a statement made from your office in December that you had stated or someone from your office stated that migrants were going to be transferred out of Poughkeepsie.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Let me look into that. Every deal we made with those counties -- who were extremely helpful when we needed it -- we lived up to all those deals. And if there's a reason that we did not live up to those deals, I'm going to make sure that my chief of staff, who has been part of this, and Deputy Mayor Williams-Isom, zero in and find out exactly what happened.

But we've lived up to all the deals. And those counties that came in and stepped up for us, we don't want to violate any agreement we made with them.

ASSEMBLYMAN BEEPHAN:Understood. Was there coordination with Dutchess County prior to the migrants being relocated there?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Every time we moved migrants and asylum seekers up into a county, we coordinated, we communicated. We did not want them to wake up and feel like New York was doing to them what has been done to us. And so we took great strides in that communication.

ASSEMBLYMAN BEEPHAN:Understood. Well, I have heard from several local business owners in that area that there's been issues stemming from that ongoing situation there. I won't get into the details, but if your administration could look into that, we would greatly appreciate that, especially if the transfer's pending sometime soon.

Thank you.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Okay. Thank you.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Is that it?

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I believe I'm the last Senator, so to speak.

So I know there's been a number of questions about migrants and federal policy and what the City of New York's been doing. And I was just sent an article from Crain's Business that while the Greater New York Hospital Association has sent out a memo to its members urging them how to handle situations if ICE agents show up for patients, that New York NYU Langone, a hospital in my district has taken the position that the staff -- "Please note, it is illegal to intentionally protect a person who is in the United States unlawfully from detention." And not saying privacy for patients not cooperating.

And I'm just curious now what the administration's going to do about this. I find it both very disturbing and frankly actually a violation of patient privacy rights in the State of New York. And I don't know that you know about this, because I've just seen this right this second, but I do think this is a real concern, particularly because NYU Langone, of course as you know, is directly next door to Bellevue, which is probably the public hospital with the largest number of patients that are not U.S. citizens, and they overlap medical staffs and residents.

So if you're on one side of the floor, you get one set of instructions about how to handle ICE, and if you're on another side of the floor in the other building you get different. I think we have to deal with this.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Yeah. And what is the instruction? I'm sorry. You said they told them --

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:This is from Crain's Business, Crain's Health Pulse, that that hospital focuses on our obligation to comply with federal laws and regulations, instructs staff to notify the security department when a government agent requests information on a patient or access to a nonpublic area, and states it is illegal to intentionally protect a person who is in the United States unlawfully.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Yeah, I'm not familiar with -- and those are definitely not under -- the hospital is not under H+H. That's a private hospital.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:It's a private hospital. But we have lots of private hospitals in New York City.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Yeah. And I'm not familiar with exactly what is in that article, and we would look it over and see exactly what's in that article.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:I'm urging you that you need to look into this and do something. I didn't expect you would know this now, because it's coming across as a press story right this second. But it's a very disturbing one to us. Frankly, from a public health perspective, for all of us, regardless of our legal status here.

If people don't think they can go to hospitals for healthcare, you have a new public health crisis on our hands here in New York City.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:We agree 100 percent. And we have articulated it over and over again, not only going to hospitals, going to schools, getting services from law enforcement. And, you know, I've often heard today about the substantial drop in enrollment in schools. And I should have said it right away: That is not true. We don't have a substantial drop in enrollment.

That is -- again, adults need to tone down the anxiety. We can't just put rumors out there. We don't have a substantial drop in our schools.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:So during the Education Hearing -- and it was after your chancellor had already left, so I couldn't ask her -- there was a discussion that the superintendents of the other Big 5 schools were complaining that when students enroll in charter schools but then drop out or are asked to leave, that the money doesn't come back to the local public school system.

And I'm curious, what's your understanding for New York City?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:I'm not sure -- I'm sorry? Charter schools, the money? When people drop out of the charter schools, does the money go back to the district schools.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Correct.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:You know, I'm not sure.

NYC BUDGET DIRECTOR JIHA:(Shaking head.)

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:You don't know either.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:No.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Well, I encourage you to look into that, because legally it is supposed to go back for the public schools. And the fact that the other Big 5 superintendents were saying that they weren't getting it back raised a red flag to me that we need to look into that for New York City, because the law is that that should be happening.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:That's what the current law states? Okay, we're going to look into that.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

So you heard some people talking about congestion pricing. I happen to be a fan of it. I think that you support it. Do you have experience from what you're hearing about the value to New York City of congestion pricing?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Deputy Mayor Meera Joshi is doing an analysis. She sits on the MTA Board as well, and she's doing an analysis. I mean, it's still fresh, you know? So I think the jury is out on are we reaching what we want. I think we're obligated to raise that billion dollars each year, and so we need to do an analysis, see what the impact -- what's the impact on environmental issues in other parts of the city.

And so I think the jury is still out, and we need to make sure that we deal with traffic, we deal with congestion. It's an economic issue as well as a health issue, and we're going to continue to monitor it.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

The federal government has certainly made noise already in this first month of the new administration that they don't like the idea of having to pay for public housing. What's the contingency plan in your budget for the City of New York if they stop sending money for NYCHA?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Well, when you look, Senator, at the fact that NYCHA has an $80 billion capital deficit -- $80 billion -- I think that far too many levels of government have walked away from NYCHA. We all need to do more.

For the first time, the first deputy mayor included in our housing budget -- NYCHA is in part of our housing plan. And everything from the success we've had up here of getting the land trust passed, which we've been voting on. We have to find creative ways of closing that gap, and that is coming from every level of government. We're going to do our part on the city, but the federal and state, we need to reinvest in public housing again.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

You just announced a deal with the United Nations for the UNDC bonding $500 million to redo U.N. One and Two, which were city-owned buildings. Which were in my district forever, but technically are now Senator Gonzalez's district.

So we had made a deal with the previous administration that those buildings would get sold and a certain percentage of the money from the sale of those buildings would go towards the building out of the East Promenade waterfront.

Now that it appears we're going to raise -- bond $500 million to redo the buildings, I guess to continue the lease to the U.N., are we ever going to make good on the commitments for that East River Promenade that was supposed to be paid for with portions of the proceeds of the sale?

And one of the issues was the U.N. was paying such a low rental amount that we were never going to get real money out of it. So I'm just curious, do we have a really good deal now and there will be money that can go towards the promenade? Because I know my community's already saying what happens to the deal we made.

And while many of us have changed seats since then -- you were not the mayor -- I was the Senator, and I'm saying now I'm a next-door Senator. A guy named Dan Garodnick was the City Councilmember, a guy named Brian Kavanagh, now a Senator, was the Assemblymember. So we negotiated this whole thing as an MOU with City Hall. And I'm curious whether that got factored into this new announcement.

FIRST DEP. MAYOR TORRES-SPRINGER:We'd be happy, Senator, to follow up to make sure we're accomplishing as many goals as possible, through and including investments in public realm. And I think we have a strong track record across the city on the waterfront of making these types of investments.

For this particular deal through UNDC, it represents 2,000 union jobs and several hundred thousand square feet of office space that will be renewed and revitalized and critical, not just for job creation but to make sure that we continue to be a global hub of commerce and the type of work that the UN represents.

But I'd be more than happy to follow up on what was represented in that MOU to identify areas where we can look at those commitments and make sure that we're honoring them to the extent feasible.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Okay, I appreciate that. Thank you.

Last, it's silly to walk into 48 seconds with affordable housing, but we all know how important it is. And recently it seems there are a few buildings that even have been going up in my district and then little news stories come out that there will be X number of affordable units available, but they're not on the HPD website as something people can apply for.

Did something change in the rules that they don't have to do that anymore and they can make their own deals for picking people?

FIRST DEP. MAYOR TORRES-SPRINGER:If it's going through the lottery they should be on our website, so I'd be happy to follow up to make sure that there's no property that has slipped through the cracks for some reason.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Okay. There's one on 78th and First, because I looked and it's not there.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Nice area.

SENATOR KRUEGER:And I think there were a few others.

All right, my time is up. Thank you very much. Assembly?

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you, Senator.

Assemblyman Tannousis.

ASSEMBLYMAN TANNOUSIS:Good afternoon, Mr. Mayor.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:How are you?

ASSEMBLYMAN TANNOUSIS:Good, good. How are you?

I want to talk to you today -- I want to ask you today about the migrant shelters on Staten Island. I was glad that one of the shelters in Travis closed. But we do still have emergency migrant shelters on Staten Island, including one location, which is in my district, Island Shores location, along Father Capodanno. That location has been the center of protests. The community was up in arms when that shelter came about. The community was upset about lack of notice, about lack of communication between the mayor's office and the local elected officials, and there was very much a bipartisan effort to show our discontent for that location.

My question for you today, Mr. Mayor, is when is that location going to close? Notice I'm not asking you if that location is going to close. My question is, when will that location close, Mr. Mayor, and finally bring peace to that neighborhood?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:And that's the goal. We want to bring peace to the city. And as I said earlier before your arrival, Assemblyman, I have not found one elected official that raised their hand and said, Hey, put the shelter here, Eric. Not one.

I have to put it somewhere. And we want to minimize the disruption to communities. We want to minimize how we have to keep people in shelters. We -- you know, and you're right, adequate notice. We were not getting notice when we were getting 4,000 people a week, 8,000 people every two weeks, 16,000 a month. No one was calling us to say, Hey, expect that busload at 2 a.m. in the morning.

We were mandated by the lawsuits from the Legal Aid Society, within a certain period of time we had to house people. And this team was up to 4, 5 every morning doing the best they can.

And so we want to close that location as soon as possible. We've closed 33 sites. No one thought we was going to close Floyd Bennett Field -- it's closed. No one thought we was going to close Randalls Island -- it's closing. We are going to try to close as many as possible.

And you know what, when we try to get people out, Assemblyman, when we said you have 30 days, this is not a lifetime experience, people fought against us. But it was successful. We got 180-something- thousand people out, and we look forward to the day that you and I stand in front of that site because we closed it together, and we're going to close it down.

ASSEMBLYMAN TANNOUSIS:Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And I assure you that no one on Staten Island was upset about giving individuals 30 days to vacate the premises.

But please keep that location in mind, and I'll be happy to work with your office to ensure that these locations are closed.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Thank you.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Assemblyman Colton.

ASSEMBLYMAN COLTON:Good morning, Mr. Mayor.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Thank you. How are you, Assemblyman?

ASSEMBLYMAN COLTON:We finish this early, possibly you'll be able to join us at our Asian Lunar New Year celebration this afternoon.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:I was wondering about that red you're wearing.

ASSEMBLYMAN COLTON:Before you became mayor, you strongly criticized the existing homeless policy, shelter policy, as failing to deal with the real problems of our homeless and creating a system of long-term shelters and exorbitant costs. Yet you seem to have greatly expanded that shelter policy.

In recent reports from the DOI, there have been findings that there is nepotism, lack of competitive bidding, and exorbitant salaries of the city's shelter programs. City & State reported on the number of crimes that actually took place in the shelters against our homeless people. Statistics show that homelessness is continuing to grow. And we're not talking about migrant homelessness, we're talking about city homelessness continues to grow and accelerate.

The growing cost now for the city has soared to some four to $6 billion a year, and some say it's going to reach $8 billion a year. This is all money that is diverted from programs that would really help the problems of homeless people. And it is also connected with not providing proper services to those with mental illness problems. High-profile random attacks on the subways and the streets have created a fear among New Yorkers for using the subways and the streets.

Why are we continuing to expand and to build more city-run shelters when it is clear this system fails to help homeless people? And it fails to help neighborhoods and is not supported by anyone, whether it be the homeless people or by people in neighborhoods. And when it diverts billions of dollars that should be going to reduce homelessness and deal with the homeless problem, and not simply enrich the pockets of wealthy developers and wealthy operators who are paid -- the Department of Investigation showed that they were paid exorbitant salaries, the CEOs operating the city homeless shelters.

Why are we not listening to the voices of the vast numbers of New Yorkers telling us this program is filled with corruption, with nepotism, it does not deal with the needs of homeless people, and it diverts billions of dollars in a failed program which simply does not work.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:You said a lot.

(Time clock sounding.)

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:A three-minute question garners a zero answer.

(Laughter.)

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Assemblyman Gallahan.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:How are you doing, Assemblyman?

ASSEMBLYMAN GALLAHAN:Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon, Mayor.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:How are you?

ASSEMBLYMAN GALLAHAN:It is afternoon.

I want to go back to the cannabis, back when --

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Cannabis?

ASSEMBLYMAN GALLAHAN:Cannabis. I want to talk about cannabis.

So back when we debated the bill a couple of years ago, I was vehemently adamant about funding our sheriffs, our cities, our towns, and our New York City police to combat black-market sales. Black-market sales in every other state that enacted cannabis legally, the average increase in black-market sales is 138 percent.

There was nothing in the bill to address that, nothing. There's nothing in the Governor's budget to address that. I commend you for what I heard earlier about how you've attacked that market in New York City and what you're doing to eradicate the black market and increase our sales where we get the tax money. Because Joe down the street, contrary to popular belief, is not paying the state a dime.

So my question is, what suggestions do you have for us in the Legislature that we can further provide you resources necessary to continue what you're doing?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Great -- great question. And I want to -- Diane, you should touch on that, because you're intimately involved in that.

But one area that we're finding we're having a problem with right now, these stores are -- as much as you pass the law, they try to get ahead of you. We just learned now we cannot go in and do an inspection if it's a -- if they have a hemp license. Which makes no sense. If they have a hemp license and are selling illegal cannabis, we cannot go in and inspect them. The judge ruled that if someone has a hemp license, my sheriff can't go in and do inspections at all in the store.

And so we may have to look at a modification on how to deal with that. And the Office of Cannabis management needs to have a faster turnaround to let us know if a person has a hemp license. They are requiring us to return the product back to the people. That's a real problem.

But Diane, you want to --

SENIOR MAYORAL ADVISOR SAVINO:Just briefly on that, one thing that you guys can do to help us is there is a flaw in the hemp licensing law that the mayor touched on which prevents us from going in and inspecting. OCM also cannot go in and inspect those localities that have a -- facilities that have a hemp license.

Right now, though, the Ag & Markets, which issues hemp licenses, have been issuing temporary hemp licenses on -- just online, without any background checks. So many of the people that we closed down, with the tools that you gave us last year, they're smart -- they figured out that there's a flaw in the law, and they're doing that.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:We've been joined by Assemblywoman Walker.

The next questioner is Assemblywoman Jackson.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:Thank you, Chair. Hi, Mr. Mayor.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:How are you doing, Assemblywoman?

ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:All is well.

Okay, so I know statistically crime is down. However, I'm in the South Bronx, so I'm the 4-0, the 4-1, the 4-2, PSA 7, 44 and 48. They are all asking for more officers. My seniors are asking for more officers. They do not feel like they are supported enough. So I'm going to state that.

However, my young people are asking for jobs. They want more jobs. And I've gone to a number of your hiring halls -- the lines are out the door and around the block. Our city wants to work. Our professionals also want to work. And a lot of the jobs inside are not necessarily for people who we told to go and get an advanced degree and a Ph.D. Those people are looking for work as well.

So any suggestions on what we should be doing in the budget to help all levels of people with education with working.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:No, love that question. And we brought down unemployment in every demographic in the city. Black unemployment was four times the rate of white unemployment when I came into city. We dropped Black and Hispanic unemployment by 20 percent.

As you stated, we've been doing these hiring halls and I would love to sponsor more in your district, because we have thousands of vacancies in city government, good jobs, school safety agents, correction officers -- that was mentioned earlier by the Assemblyman about employing our schools -- our correction officers. We are in a crisis for teachers because of what we've done around class size.

So we need to get all these vacancies that are available in city government, good union-paying jobs, good salaries -- and the private industry have joined us -- and get it to the people that need a job.

FDM, talk about some of the great work you're doing.

FIRST DEP. MAYOR TORRES-SPRINGER:Yes. In addition to what the mayor mentioned, we also have done a lot into other areas. One, really building out apprenticeship opportunities, in particular for early career New Yorkers, and it's an opportunity to both earn and learn. And we see them -- we work with the private sector in a whole array of industries from construction to tech and to life sciences --

ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:Okay, so let me just pause, because I need to ask about cannabis. And I'm going to have my office reach out so we can --

FIRST DEP. MAYOR TORRES-SPRINGER:Perfect.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:-- figure out a plan.

But cannabis, I've spoken with OCM. I know that our sheriffs are able seize product and to seize money. OCM is saying that they're not getting reports from us as to how much is being seized and where the money is. So can you tell me why they're not answering to OCM and where we can find how much funding and product was seized?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Yeah, that should not happen. So let's find out -- I would have the Deputy Mayor Parker reach out to OCM and find out where the communication gap is. That should not happen. We could give them the stats and reports.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:Okay. Because there was a hearing also and they asked how much money was seized, and no one had an answer.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Well, they'd better. So let us look into that, okay?

ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:Okay.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you.

Assemblywoman Simon.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:How you doing, Assemblywoman?

ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:(Mic problem.) Oh, I'm sorry. How are you, sir?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Hard to hear you up there.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:Good to see you.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Oh, thank you. Good seeing you as well.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:I have a couple of questions for you -- probably not the ones you thought I would ask you. So I'm going to ask you some other questions. Right?

You know, I think Mr. Epstein mentioned before the disparities in the number of units for supported housing, and only 18 percent of those people who are eligible have been able to get units.

So I just want to make sure that we are looking at how we can fix this, how we can make changes to that eligibility so that people actually -- reduce the barriers to actually getting that supported housing.

But my question is, number one, New York City is currently doing a massive water table study, and I would like your commitment to authorize the addition to that of a hydrology study in the Gowanus watershed, which as you know is toxic, prone to flooding, and the site of 8,000-plus new housing units being put in.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Someone -- one of my water people tell me about that before I say yes, because she's going to hold me to it.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:DEP doing a lot of work there, you know?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Let me have Rit communicate with you, Rit Aggarwala, who's the commissioner of DEP, and find out exactly what I'm about to say yes to. Okay?

ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:Okay. I'm going to hold you to it.

And then secondarily, the Brooklyn House of Detention, as you know, it's about a 40-story building. We were supposed to have about 160 therapeutic beds which are used not only for people with mental illness but chronic health conditions as well. And that's been cut in half. And now when we build out the four jails to replace Rikers, we will have roughly half the therapeutic beds systemwide.

How do we square that with this concern that's been expressed about those people struggling with mental illness?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Great question.

Assemblywoman, the plan is flawed. And I've stated this over and over again, it's like, you know, no one wants to acknowledge that it's a flawed plan because we put the plan in place already.

The current jail population exceeds what the four jails are going to do. The price has doubled. We need a -- you can't have 51 percent of the inmates having mental health issues. We need a state-of-the-art psychiatric facility. I think one of those jails should do that for in- and outpatient treatment, that we can give a real care that we can be proud of.

And so right now when you look at the space that we need, we look at how long people stay on Rikers Island without getting their time in court, that is what's feeding this problem. Every aspect of the criminal justice system must participate in a real Rikers plan. And if we don't do that, we're going to have a real crisis down the road.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:We already do. And it's not getting better by reducing the number of therapeutic beds. We need more of them.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Yes.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:If there's any place we need them, it's there. Thank you.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Yeah, I agree.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you.

Assemblywoman Walker.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Assemblywoman, how are you?

ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALKER:I'm doing well.

But unlike my colleague, I'm going to ask you exactly what you think I'm going to ask you. And of course, Mr. Mayor, and to all of your colleagues, a pleasant good morning.

So I'm going to talk about discovery. So you're a police officer and very good one, or you were, but I'm sure once a police officer, always a police officer. And if I showed up on a crime scene and I told you what was relevant -- don't look over here, this is not relevant -- what would your response be to that?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:I would say don't tell me what's relevant and what's not.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALKER:So why do you think, then, it should be up to the prosecutors to tell the defense counsel what it is is relevant as it relates to discovery?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Well, I think there's certain ways you could do it, but that's why it's back up to you to look at it. It could be an independent eye. They could be coming in front of the judge and determine what's relevant or not.

What we don't want to do is what we're seeing with what the prosecutors have shared with us. If you have everyone's -- for example, everyone's body-worn camera, a person who never even got out of the scene, he was in a car all the time, and you didn't get that body-worn camera and all of a sudden the charge is dismissed because of that, that is what I believe they're talking about.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALKER:Well, that is a very good point that you make, because the body-worn camera footage is in the possession of the police department. And so do you think that the police department has any accountability here to some of these dismissals that people have been talking about?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Without a doubt. Everyone has accountability here. And I think that to do a fair analysis of discovery based on what the prosecutors are saying, based on what they're saying to allow those professionals to look and see exactly what we need to do, I think that that's what we should be using this legislative session to do so.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALKER:I appreciate that, and I do believe there will be a continued dialogue. But I don't believe that that conversation can happen in a vacuum without the police department sort of having some skin in the game.

And so there's a lot of conversation also we've been talking about with respect to City of Yes. And we want to promote more building. But can you talk to me a little bit about how you would help us with reentry housing? A lot of times supportive housing is always -- it's always like a catch-22 between which one is going to get built. We do need more supportive housing, but we also need more reentry housing for people who are transitioning out of Rikers Island and other places.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:That's so important. You've talked about that for quite some time, and we are strong believers in reentry housing. And wherever we could place those projects -- and you have been welcoming to placing projects in your Assembly district. Far too many people are not welcoming in doing that.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALKER:Please, bring them on.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Right. Right. And so we -- I agree with you as we look at supportive housing we have to focus on the large number of people who have long prison sentences, they're coming home, they need to come home to a welcoming platform so they don't become repeat offenders.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALKER:Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you, Assemblywoman.

And Mr. Mayor, I want to thank you for your testimony today.

I guess I'll close it out. I really don't have any pertinent questions, just a few comments, and a question may hit me.

First, to correct a misstatement that was made earlier, I know for a fact that more than half of the wealth of the State of New York comes from New York City. I also know that more than half of the wealth of New York City comes from south of Canal Street.

(Laughter.)

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:That's a fact.

Rikers Island, I don't know if anything in the Governor's budget mentions that. I know New York City's in the process of closing down Rikers and opening community jails like -- can you just tell me what's going on with that?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Yes. And, you know, I said it over and over again and I will continue to say the plan, Assemblyman, is a flawed plan. And no one wants to acknowledge that. They all know it's a flawed plan, but no one wants to say it publicly. You cannot close down Rikers, build four more jails. That is not going to house the current population that you have right now.

Double the price cost to build it. We're not dealing with the psychiatric issues many of the inmates are experiencing. We're building four more smaller than Rikers. And we need to be bold enough -- if we're going to invest $16 billion, we should be bold enough to address all of the issues we are facing.

We don't have so much a criminal -- a crime problem, we have a mental health problem. And we need to be focusing on how do we address that mental health problem. And this is a great opportunity to do so. But the law requires, 2027, Rikers has to close, cannot be used for a jail again. I just think we need to go back to the table and look at how we can do this correctly. This is a golden opportunity to get it right.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you.

And someone had mentioned migrants. What is the city's policy on housing migrants, noncitizens, outside of New York City?

And the reason I'm asking is because I represent a district just north of the city, and I had a few complaints {inaudible} from senior citizens whose landlords refused to renew their leases because New York City was offering maybe 60 percent more in rent than they were currently paying, and the landlord wanted to increase their rent 60 percent or not renew the lease because they were going to house someone from outside of the country. And that caused a little angst.

I mentioned it to someone on your staff. I didn't get a real good answer. But is there a set policy for how you do that? I mean, I know you don't want to purposely create homelessness someplace else, but it seems that what's been happening -- I don't know if it happens on Long Island or even up here, in the Albany area, where I know that migrants were being housed upstate.

Is there a policy where you try to ensure that you do not create homelessness for another group of individuals?

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:We took great strides, the team took great strides in not displacing residents. We used, for the most part, hotels. And those who moved out of the hotels who stay in the areas, they -- we took great strides to make sure we were not displacing the residents that were in the area.

But many people returned to New York City. Some people stayed in those municipalities because they enjoy the different life of being in those regions. But we took great strides to not displace long-term residents.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:So there is at least an attempt to do that. And if landlords --

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Yes.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:-- don't tell you what's really happening, it's just not in your control, you'll do what you have to do.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:And I'm not aware of any landlords that are doing that.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:All right. And this is my last question, it's about floods.

I was recently driving down the Henry Hudson Parkway, and it had just finished raining and the water was like lapping up onto the highway almost. It seems that if the river rises any, we're going to have serious flooding. And I know downtown is at the water table now.

Is there anything in this current budget that would help you work toward any flood mitigation for the future? Because it's coming. And New York City's destined to be -- at least Lower Manhattan's destined to be underwater I think by 2030 or 2035. So the time to start making corrections for that is now.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Yeah, FDM and her team under DM Meera Joshi, we have -- we acknowledge that climate change is real and it's going to impact our city. And the billion dollars investment of being a city with so much coastal land, we know we have to be prepared for that.

You want to talk about some of those things we're doing?

FIRST DEP. MAYOR TORRES-SPRINGER:Sure. We've been very focused, Assemblyman, on making sure that we're doing everything that we can on flood prevention. In our preliminary capital budget, for instance, just to name a few of those investments, almost 300 million to make flood-proofing upgrades to seven pump stations, mostly in Queens; another 150 million to construct a storm sewer system in Harlem; another 100 million for green infrastructure projects; 300 million to upgrade the sanitary sewer trunk in Jamaica; and a number of others.

So we're very focused on this because we know that with climate change must also come the types of investments that protect neighborhoods, people and entire families.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Well, that concludes this section of this hearing.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Thank you.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:I want to thank you, Mr. Mayor, and your staff.

NYC MAYOR ADAMS:Good to see you.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:And we'll move on now to the next group, called Panel A.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:And as the mayor leaves, please, everyone who wants to continue conversations with him, whether you're legislators or the press, outside in the hallway, whichever direction he chooses to go, not here in the room.

We need to keep this hearing going.

(Off the record.)

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Okay, if legislators will take their seats or take their conversations with the leaving mayors outside. Assemblymember Jacobson -- you know, some people just don't follow instructions.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Assemblymember Shimsky, please take a seat. Mayor Spano, could you --

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Take the conversations outside.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Welcome, Panel A.

Before we get started, just for the media, could you each just quickly introduce yourselves? And then I don't know what order we're going to go. How about size matters? We'll start out with Buffalo and go down to Albany.

SENATOR KRUEGER:Is Buffalo here?

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:I don't know. So that means we start with Yonkers. You are number three now, right?

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:(Mic off.)

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Your mic's not on, Mike. No. Look for the green -- there you go.

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:Okay, gotcha.

Good afternoon, Madam Chair. Good afternoon, Mr. Chair. To our honorable legislators, it's good to be here today and I'll try to be quick on my remarks. I know that you have my testimony, so I'll leave it to that. And again, let me just say a special congratulations to Assemblyman Pretlow, my good friend for a very long time, on your ascension to this very important committee.

Really simply, I'm here today to ask for additional funding for education. I know that surprises you. It's something that we seem to do every year for the past 14 years. And we talk about the school aid formula and how it effects Yonkers. And when I talk about it, sometimes I come across as if I'm somehow, you know, talking about my colleagues here that are sitting to my left, to my right, as people who get everything and we get nothing. That's not true. They get everything they absolutely should, and more they should get in terms of aid to education.

I'm here to talk about the plight of my city and the fact that we need additional funding for education. We have been able to get help from you over the years in terms of bullet aid and one-shots, and that's been a big help. But it's not been really what we've needed to kind of keep us going.

We asked for a Regional Cost Index, and I know that that was something that was talked about in the Rockefeller report pretty intensively. And when you talk about this -- let me see if I have it right -- this CWIFT, whatever it is you guys call it, whatever the report called it, if that was allowed to be implemented -- and it's not in the Governor's budget, but if it was allowed to be implemented, it would mean $65 million in additional funding to the City of Yonkers. That tells you what that cost of living really means. And if that doesn't prove the point, just look at what we did with living wage. When we passed a living wage and you regionalized it in New York State, you said, you know what, it costs more to live in Long Island, it costs more to live in New York City, it costs more to live in Westchester County. And that's why the regionals costs were higher there. It's why what we implemented into law was higher in terms of a living wage.

But while New York State recognizes in school aid formula those same principles as it applies to Manhattan -- I'm sorry, to New York City and to Long Island, it does not apply to Westchester County. And instead, I have a regional cost that looks like cities that are 100 miles north of me.

So it's been an issue, and it's been a burden. The taxpayers of Yonkers pay more per pupil to educate a child than my colleagues sitting next to me, those cities combined. And while we do that and while we continue to raise the maintenance of effort -- every single year we raise that maintenance of effort for the -- in the City of Yonkers. Because you know what, we will never let our kids starve. And we get help from you, and I appreciate that. But what we need is something that is sustainable, that is predictable, that gives us the dollars that we need every single year.

You know, we're graduating our kids at 90 percent. We have the best graduation rate of any big city in New York State. Barack Obama just proclaimed Yonkers as a model city for educating young Black men -- a model city. Gave us an award, a nationwide award, and we're proud of that. Why? Because we know that we're not like previous administrations that you've had to deal with, that I had to deal with when I was in the Legislature, who said to you, you know what, Albany, you fix the problem. If you can't fix the problem, shut the lights off on your way out because they're your kids, not ours.

No, that's not what the taxpayers of Yonkers say, nor will they ever say that. They're our kids. And we will build on the successes that we've had. And we'll continue to make sure that Yonkers is a place where our children will have that opportunity at growth so they can live, they can work in the community, and they can prosper.

So I'm asking for help. I'm asking for more funding. I'm asking that you take a look at the regional cost of Yonkers as it pertains -- or at least in Westchester. Because there is a glaring -- it's glaring, it's right there, it says there needs to be more dollars put into this city.

I have an impossible task of going back to the taxpayers every year. I mean, think about that. Even though we're in Westchester County, you know, we're an urban center, we are at -- we're still less than the state's median income. And, you know, in Yonkers you have -- you know, you have -- most of our kids live at or below the rate of poverty.

So having all that, and having all of that to deal with, we still, like I said, are able to make it work and to have a great graduation rate and to get acknowledgments. Your investments in Yonkers have been good, and we want to make sure that we continue to see those investments grow and to make a difference, especially in our kids and our community. But it won't happen, like I said, without your support.

So again, to the Senate and especially Senator Stewart-Cousins, Senator Shelley Mayer, that $12 million bullet aid was huge for us, continues to be huge for us. We hope that that will continue to be in the budget.

We know that the Governor took last year's AIM aid, it was a temporary measure, and put it back in the budget. We took that entire amount and moved it to the Board of Education. We broke the tax cap and moved it to the Board of Education. And we're still, still struggling to make it happen.

And so I'm not going to speak on much else because I know you'll have a lot of questions. We can fill in the blanks and everything else later. But I'm here to talk about our need for additional aid to education, something that is not a one-shot, something that is real, meaningful, and something that changes the formula. Because every time we fully fund the formula, which is great -- we have fully funded the formula except the gap between what this city gets and what other cities like us get grows exponentially. So we might get 18 million, but other cities get 40 million.

We have a district that is nearly exactly the same size as Yonkers -- think about this, nearly the same size in terms of enrollment, but a billion dollars is spent on education in that community. Nowhere near a billion dollars worth of education dollars spent in Yonkers, and a thousand more teachers, 1,000 more teachers. And I struggle -- we struggle with, you know, music, art, sports, making sure that our kids have enough psychologists. And yes, some might say we pay our teachers a lot, and we do. But they're dealing with an infrastructure that is falling down around them, even though we've made significant impact over the past couple of years. And with your help, we're building new schools.

We still have a ways to go, and that's why I'm asking please look at this Regional Cost Index and see if there's a way for Yonkers to get treated more fairly and some substantive change to the formula.

Thank you.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Who's next?

Don't all just jump in.

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:I guess I'll jump in. Malik Evans, mayor of Rochester. thank you, Chairwoman Krueger and Chairman Pretlow. It's great to be back in front of this committee again.

I'll just start by saying that we're witnessing tremendous momentum in Rochester with an accelerating pace of positive change and each new improvement generating more improvements. But I think it's important to point out that serious financial challenges in the years ahead threaten that momentum. Our most significant financial concerns include the declining sales tax revenues, increasing pension and healthcare costs, and of course the end of ARPA funding. And what's more, while we were grateful last year for the additional $5 million we received last year in Temporary Municipal Assistance, Rochester's $88.2 million allotment in AIM aid continues to be lower per capita than our peer cities. And on top of that, the state-mandated efforts that we spend in education is also a larger contribution than our peer cities. And it's important for me to note that Rochester, if we look at the top five poor zip codes in New York State, three of them are within the City of Rochester.

These are the conditions that drive most if not all of our most pressing challenges, including violent crime, low employment, and decreased educational outcomes. And these are conditions that require the delivery of extraordinary levels of critical services, even as we continue to make strategic investments that attract private development and fuel Rochester's growth.

To confront these challenges and perpetuate Rochester's forward momentum, we respectfully ask for the following support. The biggest one, and I'm sure it's no big surprise, because every year I have testified to this: AIM aid. First, we are once again asking for Rochester's fair share of AIM funding, with a baseline increase of $32.7 million, which would bring us to parity with cities like Buffalo. We're not asking for more, we're just asking for the exact same amount per capita that every other city gets that receives AIM aid.

The current disparity significantly threatens our ability to provide the critical services of our citizens that they depend on to repair and replace aging infrastructure and to continue the success that we started with our ARPA funds, and to keep an estimated $20 million increase in pension and healthcare costs.

Affordable housing and home ownership is something that we are also focused on. New York State is an important partner in our housing programs, which help residents escape the cycle of poverty and build generational wealth and homeownership. So we seek a small amount of dollars, only $1.8 million in gap funding per year for three years for nine affordable housing projects that we have.

Also, to create homeownership, which is the pathway to wealth in our community, and help to build generational wealth, we're seeking $11.25 million for three years to renovate homes in our community to resell them to income-eligible homeowners and to help existing homeowners stay in their homes, we are seeking $1.9 million a year for three years to help with repair costs.

We have tremendous progress in Rochester as it relates to public safety. The Gun Involved Violence Elimination aid -- because of that GIVE aid, gun violence in Rochester has declined by 50 percent since the peak years of the pandemic. The state support of the gun violence elimination program has been critical to that success. And to continue that progress so that we can continue to drive down gun crime even lower, we are seeking $4.2 million in GIVE aid. That's a $1 million increase over last year.

Lastly, you cannot talk about public safety without addressing pedestrian safety. Rochester I believe is the only city outside of New York City to take on the Vision Zero initiative to eliminate traffic fatalities through environmental design, enforcement and education. Our ROC Vision Zero is not just a goal -- it's a commitment to ensure that every individual can move safely throughout Rochester. And to move forward with this commitment, we are seeking $18 million for projects including advancing our Bicycle Spine network, implementing a 25-miles per hour city speed limit, and improving pedestrian priority zones.

Transformative construction projects is something that we also have a focus on. Rochester is in the midst of a physical transformation that emphasizes quality of life and environmental justice, and chief among them is our ROC the Riverway waterfront revitalization program as well as our Inner Loop North Transformation program.

This progress has already generated significant private-sector investment, most notably the decision of Constellation Brands, a Fortune 500 company, to move its international headquarters to downtown Rochester.

But we need to continue to move with this momentum, so we are seeking funding for four ROC the Riverway initiative programs -- the rehabilitation of the Vacuum Oil site upon full remediation. That's a site that was contaminated by folks that decided to contaminate the neighborhood -- then, after they got all the value, they decided to move. This is a $35 million project to restore the shore. It occupies 15 acres along 4,000 linear feet of waterfront property at our Genesee River.

We're also looking for funding for our convention center and also our Blue Cross Arena, where our AHL Rochester Amerks play.

But lastly I want to end by talking about our Inner Loop transformation project. The notorious power broker Robert Moses once said "To operate in an overbuilt metropolis, sometimes you have to hack your way with a meat axe." And I think that this quote perfectly illustrates the urban renewal mindset that prompted the removal of hundreds of homes, churches and businesses in Black and brown neighborhoods in Rochester with the Inner Loop Expressway. It's much easier to aim your meat axe at those with no voice.

The Inner Loop transformation project will restore these neighborhoods with thriving commercial districts, green space and housing, delivering much-needed environmental justice. We still believe in environmental justice in Rochester, no matter what they say at the federal level.

With a footprint more than three times the size of the Inner Loop East project, which now serves as a national model for reconnecting neighborhoods and generating new investments, the Inner Loop North project has the potential to surpass that success by orders of magnitude.

So we are seeking an additional $125 million for new construction costs and new elements identified in the scoping.

And as I said, witnessing -- as we continue to witness this tremendous momentum in Rochester, Monroe County, as a result of our strategic investments in valuable partnerships. I continue to ask for your support. As fellow public servants, I urge you to support these investments and join the "We, Not Me" partnerships that are once again turning Rochester into an economic driver for the entire State of New York.

I thank you for your time, and I welcome any questions that you may have.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

BUFFALO MAYOR SCANLON:Good afternoon, everyone. I would like to thank the New York State Legislature for the opportunity to testify before the Joint Legislative Budget Committee today.

To Senate Finance Chair Liz Krueger, Assembly Ways and Means Chair Gary Pretlow, Senate Local Government Chair Monica Martinez and Assembly Local Government Chair Billy Jones, and the rest of the committee members, I thank you and I'm honored to be here today in front of you as the mayor of the City of Buffalo on behalf of our residents.

I also want to take a moment to acknowledge and thank the Western New York delegation -- in particular, Assembly Majority Leader Crystal Peoples-Stokes -- for the work they do on a daily basis championing and advocating for the residents of the City of Buffalo.

I want to applaud the Governor's focus on the quality of life issues in her Executive Budget proposal, and am thrilled to see her commitment to issues such as economic development, mental health issues, education and affordability, as well as her strong focus on public safety, an issue that impacts negatively all the cities that are sitting up here today.

I have been mayor for just a little over a hundred days, but spent 13 years in city government as a councilmember, council president, and now as mayor. And I know the challenges facing the City of Buffalo well. But I'm not here today with my hand extended looking for a handout -- I have my hand extended looking for partners. I'm not here today looking for New York State to rectify the issues that Buffalo faces -- I'm looking for New York State to provide the City of Buffalo the tools to rectify them ourselves.

And although I'm very happy to see the aforementioned issues being addressed within the Governor's proposal, Buffalo's needs extend well beyond what is being allocated. And I'd like to touch on some of those issues that were included in my expanded written testimony.

First and foremost, the City of Buffalo seeks to authorize the creation of the Buffalo parking and mobility authority to transfer ownership of four City of Buffalo-owned-and-operated parking lots to the authority, who can generate revenue and invest in the capital needs of those parking ramps while relieving the City of Buffalo of those responsibilities and generating income through a City of Buffalo and authority ownership contract.

The City of Buffalo also seeks to impose a 3 percent occupancy tax, also known as a hotel or bed tax, paid for by travelers staying in Buffalo who utilize our infrastructure, our amenities, police and fire services. And the proceeds of those tax revenues would be reinvested in our tourism and cultural assets to make Buffalo more appealing to future tourism.

While Buffalo has benefited from the recent temporary assistance to municipalities, last year's $5 million increase, what we respectfully request is an increase to AIM in general, and for it to be linked to an inflationary index.

Prior to last year's temporary increase, as we all know the AIM has not increased since 2012. During that same period of time, the City of Buffalo's fixed costs have increased by $130 million during that same time period.

When we talk about capital needs, the City of Buffalo is seeking to build a new Department of Public Works campus and resiliency center. Our current facility was constructed in 1858. It is undersized and inefficient. The physical conditions of the facility pose a great risk to the safety of the employees. A new consolidated location would provide an efficient location for our snow plowing, our sanitation services, paving services, construction services, et cetera, and reduce the maintenance and energy and training costs associated now, while maximizing productivity and efficiencies.

And the sale will be 10 separate assets that currently house those operations in different components. It would bring revenue into the city as well as to put those properties back on the tax rolls.

As I mentioned, the City of Buffalo is not here today to ask for just a handout, we are doing things to address our structural budget issues internally as well. I've requested my departments to come back with a 10 percent reduction in their operating budgets, which were due just two days ago, and that would result in a savings of nearly $30 million.

I've also taken a proactive approach to revenue generation, and that will lead to a reasonable increase in our property taxes next year.

Again, I want to thank you all for letting me testify today. I look forward to any questions you may have.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

ALBANY MAYOR SHEEHAN:Good afternoon. Thank you, Chairpersons Krueger and Pretlow, for the opportunity to discuss the issues pertaining to the City of Albany. And congratulations, Chairperson Pretlow, on your being named the new chair of Ways and Means.

I want to thank the Senate Finance Committee, the Assembly Ways and Means Committee, our Capital Region delegation, including Senator Fahy, Assemblymember Romero and Assemblymember McDonald, who worked very closely with me and our former, now-retired Senator Neil Breslin.

We have now seen the Capital City Funding for the City of Albany for the past eight years, thanks to the cooperation, the partnership that we've been able to have with the Assembly, with the Senate. And for the fourth year in a row, the current Governor has placed Capital City Funding directly in her budget and has made a commitment to making it permanent.

And so I want to talk about what that looks like. We have proposed an amendment to Section 19-A. As you know, where we sit now used to be a neighborhood. This was 90 acres of homes, churches, schools; 9500 people lived here, many of them people of color. And when this property was taken by eminent domain and those houses and schools and churches and businesses were torn down, it really changed the face of the city.

And this complex was built. It is an incredible piece of architecture, it is spectacular, but it also does not integrate with our street grid and has really been an impediment for a lot of our businesses. And so it has created challenges.

And so in looking at the payments that are coming to the city through 19-A, it's time to make those permanent. And we are asking that there be an annual increase that would be in keeping with the tax cap. So if the tax cap, whatever the amount of the tax cap increases, that would be the amount that our AIM aid would -- not our AIM aid, our pilot payment would be.

And so I think that we have demonstrated that we have been excellent stewards of our taxpayer dollars. We have balanced our budget every year. We went from a structural deficit and no rainy day fund to building back up our rainy day fund, and working to ensure that we're providing excellent services to those who live here and visit here, including those who call Albany home for half of the year.

And one of the challenges that that, though, does create, is the large amount of tax-exempt property that exists in the City of Albany. And so you've heard me plead the case. You've certainly listened and responded. And so I want to say thank you. And I would love to see, in this my final year as mayor, for that to be made permanent so the next mayor can come and ask you for something else. But -- so there is proposed legislation, and that is included in my presentation.

The second thing that I want to talk about, though, is the changing face of our downtown. As we all know, the pandemic had a tremendous impact on downtowns all across the state. This is the corporate headquarters for New York State government. You are our largest employer. And so as we continue to see now, multiple years out from the pandemic, that hybrid work arrangements continue, where on any given day only about half of the people who work downtown are actually sitting at their desks, it is time for us to reimagine our downtown.

We have been working with the Governor's office and with Empire State Development to talk about the opportunities for downtown and the things that we need to be doing in order to create more vitality and bring more people into our downtown. The Governor has announced a commitment to spend $400 million, 200 million that the state would control in this state complex, including a significant improvement to the New York State Museum, really making it the world-class, top-notch attraction that it should be. We are the Empire State.

And then also focusing $200 million on investments in our downtown within a mile of this complex. The city has control, through our economic development agency, of a nine-acre parcel that is now ready for redevelopment, and this provides an excellent opportunity for us to do the things that New York State needs to do -- build more housing, create world-class attractions, and ensure that we are doing all that we can to keep our downtowns vibrant.

As the capital of this region, this is the center for the region. And so as goes the City of Albany, so goes the region. And we have so much amazing investment that is happening both at UAlbany, across the river at RPI, up at Global Foundries, and even the investments that are being made in Syracuse. I gave my State of the City last week, and I was talking about the Micron investment in Syracuse. Because our residents need to understand that we're talking about an entire supply chain and jobs that will impact all of upstate New York.

And so I'm hopeful that you will be supportive of the investment that the Governor is proposing, that you'll be supportive of the state and her administration being able to oversee and control the renovations of the museum. It's been a promise that has been made year after year after year, and our residents of the City of Albany have been waiting for that promise to be delivered. And so we need to ensure that that renovation goes forward.

And I think the final thing that I want to stress is that as we look at AIM, it is important, not only for the cities that are sitting here but for all of the municipalities that get AIM funding, to have some ability to see the amount of our AIM increase year after year. We know costs go up every year. We are doing everything that we can to be as effective and efficient as possible. And we did see some relief as we were coming out of the pandemic with some of the other funding sources that were available.

But let's face it. We know that those funding sources are not going to be there for us, at least for the next few years. You know, we rely tremendously and we've all been successful in accessing grants for some of the things that we're looking to do around traffic safety, around a lot of these initiatives. But, you know, we know that that's not going to be there for us necessarily over the next four years.

And so it's important that as we look to our workforces and as we look at the demands on our city and the demands for resources, that we have an understanding that we are going to see that AIM -- just as school aid goes up every year, to see that incremental increase in AIM each year.

Again, I want to thank you for increasing AIM last year. We're grateful for the Governor to be continuing that in the budget. And we'd like to see that created in a way that allows us, as we create our budgets often in an off-cycle from the state, that we're able to ensure and know that that funding is going to be there. It's going directly into our communities. It's going directly into our police departments, our fire departments, filling potholes, being able to plan to repave streets. And so it's a critically important investment that you're making. And it's our residents' taxpayer dollars that are coming back to our community. And believe me, we tell them that, we want to be able to tout what you're able to provide back in your communities that you represent.

Thank you.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you, Madam Mayor.

SYRACUSE MAYOR WALSH:Good afternoon. Thank you, Chair Pretlow, Chair Krueger, and members of the legislative fiscal committee.

Three weeks ago I delivered my 2025 State of the City address. In my eighth and final speech, I invoked the words of the Athenian Oath in reporting Syracuse is "not only not less, but greater, better and more beautiful than it was transmitted to us." The progress is the result of an ambitious agenda established at the start of our administration: Syracuse will be a growing city that embraces diversity and creates opportunity for all.

We believed a relentless focus on that vision would position Syracuse for a resurgence, and it has. That was the purpose of the Syracuse Surge, our strategy for inclusive growth in the new economy, and Syracuse Build, our nationally recognized construction careers training program. It also inspired the Resurgent Neighborhoods Initiative, our cooperative comprehensive housing and community revitalization plan.

None of these successes would have happened without the support of this Legislature. You invested in them all. I am particularly appreciative of our local delegation, Assemblyman Bill Magnarelli, Assemblywoman Pam Hunter, Assemblyman Al Stirpe, Senator Rachel May -- who I see here, hi, Senator -- and our new Senator Chris Ryan, who's also here. Congrats again, Senator Ryan.

With CHIPS and Science Act and Green CHIPS funding locked in for the $100 billion Micron project, which Mayor Sheehan mentioned, we see continued state partnership for a new series of catalytic investments in jobs, housing and infrastructure to ensure the massive chip fab brings maximum benefit to the City of Syracuse. Like local governments across New York, we also seek the state's help in building the city's own fiscal stability. Capitalizing on New York's semiconductor moment is essential to reduce the unacceptably high poverty rate in Syracuse, which as you heard is shared by my colleagues in their communities as well. We've made steady progress in recent years, but we need to do more. We must do more.

I thank Governor Hochul for proposing an expansion of the child tax credit, and I urge the Legislature to enact this proposal. In jobs and opportunity, the city will focus on spurring new private investment within neighborhood business corridors in commercial districts. We will connect economically distressed areas to workforce training and employment centers.

In the area of affordable housing, I have reported to the fiscal committees in prior years on our Syracuse Housing Strategy, an innovative multiyear plan to revitalize the city's aging housing stock. New funds requested for this project will assist homeowners who currently do not qualify for existing funding sources due to eligibility restrictions.

Regarding public infrastructure, the state has and continues to be our essential partner in maintaining and upgrading our roads, sewers and water systems. We will deploy additional state support to complete strategic infrastructure upgrades to support new commercial and mixed-use development in each quadrant of the city.

I'd be remiss if I didn't also acknowledge your role in supporting the Interstate 81 project, which I advocated for in front of you for many years. That $2.25 billion project is now well underway.

With state help, we will also continue to reduce the levels of lead in our drinking water.

Regarding fiscal sustainability, I'm pleased to report that all major indicators of financial health show Syracuse is stronger today than when I took office. In 2019, Moody's and S&P upgraded the city's fiscal outlook from negative to stable, and in 2022 S&P upgraded our credit rating from A to A+.

The reality is, though, we are still facing a structural deficit, and to balance the budget we will likely have to draw on our reserves again this year. As long as we are in that position, we haven't achieved fiscal sustainability.

We continue to implement new sources of local revenue. We are also grateful to Governor Hochul and the Legislature for authorizing temporary municipal assistance in last year's budget, as my colleagues alluded to. I'm pleased the temporary aid is again in the Executive Budget. I urge the Legislature to go the next step and permanently adjust AIM aid more in keeping with the actual costs New York's municipalities face.

I would also like to address the current uncertainty regarding federal funding facing state and local governments. I join with my fellow mayors in expressing deep concern about recent federal actions to impose a broad freeze on federal funding for grants, loans and other essential programs. As stated by the New York Conference of Mayors, any interruptions to funding streams that support daily city operations -- and, of particular concern, our most vulnerable residents -- would have a devastating impact on Syracuse.

In closing, this is my last appearance before the joint fiscal committees, and I have been honored to appear at these hearings. I reiterate my appreciation to the Syracuse delegation and the full Legislature for your steadfast backing. Thank you all.

SENATOR KRUEGER:Thank you.

On behalf of the Assembly, we're going to start with Assembly Chair Burke, 10 minutes.

ASSEMBLYMAN BURKE:Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you all for being here. As the new chair of Cities, I look forward to getting to know you all and seeing how I can use this role to benefit your communities.

Looking at -- I haven't had the opportunity to fully explore all of your budgets, but understanding that at least some of you are operating at a structural deficit, seeing that municipalities had a flood of cash from ARP dollars, I'm curious to know not just where we are now, but where we are two, three, four years from now -- how we're going to make sure we're operating effectively and frankly not just coming to the State of New York. We can't print money like the federal government, so we don't know what the next four years are going to look like. I'm guessing, judging by the last month, pretty chaotic.

So just want to hear your perspective briefly if you're operating at -- you know, at a deficit, how you plan to close that. Certainly obviously you're here to ask for state help. But more -- you know, what is your plan? If you want to start with Acting Mayor Scanlon.

BUFFALO MAYOR SCANLON:Thank you, Assemblymember Burke. I appreciate the question.

Like many of the other cities, we are in structural deficit within our budget. But again, as I mentioned during my testimony, that we are taking steps to address it internally first before coming to the State of New York and asking for help.

I've instructed my departments to come back with a 10 percent reduction within their departments' spending, and that was due just a couple of days ago. We'll get back to you with that when I get back in town in Buffalo.

Also the fact that the City of Buffalo's tax rate is the second-lowest across the state has to be addressed. For years our tax levy did not grow. Between the years 2007 and 2020, there was virtually no tax levy growth, the strategy of not increasing taxes. And so we're woefully behind on our property tax and what we can bring in.

So we're going to address that, to do reasonable property tax increases in the future. But also within the City of Buffalo our issue is not one of spending. Our budget is not out of whack because of our expenditures; it's more of a revenue issue. You know, when we talked about our property taxes, everyone at the table has talked about AIM and the need for an increase in AIM.

But the other thing, we are very much at a disadvantage, compared to some of the other cities, with our sales tax sharing agreement with Erie County. We receive somewhere around 11 percent of that -- the county's taxes, where some of the other upstate cities receive 20, 25, 30 percent of their county's sales tax. So we're at a major disadvantage there.

Inflation is at 28 percent over the last 10 years. Our revenues have only increased 14 percent. So we have a revenue issue. So we're looking, again -- while we hold spending and reduce spending a little bit, we need to bring more revenues into the fold. And again, we're going to do that through our property taxes and hopefully we can negotiate a new sales tax agreement with our county. And then, again, we'd love to see an increase in AIM attached to some sort of increase on a yearly basis.

ASSEMBLYMAN BURKE:Is that 10 percent across the board? Is every department, police and fire, are they all going to take a 10 percent haircut?

BUFFALO MAYOR SCANLON:We asked them to come back -- to go through the exercise of looking at the 10 percent reduction. Police probably we wouldn't be able to do that. I think the police is 96.5 percent fixed costs. I do want to look at where they're spending money.

But again, if we can -- if we can get to 10 percent across the board, as a whole we're talking somewhere around 25 or 30 million dollars.

ASSEMBLYMAN BURKE:That's a lot of overtime, right? That's where a lot of that money's coming from.

BUFFALO MAYOR SCANLON:Correct. Police, fire overtime, we have a new police commissioner, going to get some ideas on how to reduce some of the police overtime. And we've had conversations with our fire commissioner as well on how to address that.

ASSEMBLYMAN BURKE:Good, thank you.

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:I would just say in Rochester we --

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:No, no, no.

SENATOR KRUEGER:Oh, sorry. What?

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:No, we -- when we say thank you, that means you're done. So --

ASSEMBLYMAN BURKE:I was done with him.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:That's a code word.

ASSEMBLYMAN BURKE:We're going down the line.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Okay.

SENATOR KRUEGER:You've got your 10 minutes, that's it. Thank you.

I want to announce that we have been joined by Senator Shelley Mayer, Senator Brouk, Senator May, Senator Fahy.

But our first questioner is our chair and our new Senator, Chris Ryan.

SENATOR CHRIS RYAN:Thank you, Madam Chair.

And thank you for being here for the testimony. We appreciate your time.

And I'll echo Chairman Burke, looking forward to working with you in the Cities 2 Committee. So some good times, good months ahead, a good working relationship.

And thank you, I would be remiss if I didn't recognize Mayor Walsh. Thank you for your service. I didn't know the -- I wish I knew the steadfast Ben before; we would have been saying that for eight years. So we like you.

I want to talk about three things. Number one, housing; then touch a little bit on concentrated childhood poverty and a little bit of public safety.

So I think last year the panel voiced the need for mixed-income rental housing developments to help combat the high levels of concentrated poverty. The $50 million capital funding is going to be a revolving loan fund. Do you anticipate that being impactful? And the second part to that question is, is that enough?

SYRACUSE MAYOR WALSH:I can start.

Thank you, Senator. As you know, we have been working very hard on our housing strategy with a specific focus on our -- what we describe as our middle neighborhoods. There are a lot of tools in the housing toolkit for low-income affordable housing, and that's critically important. And we take advantage of those tools. But we have many neighborhoods in the City of Syracuse that have older housing stock, that have working-class people with a good percentage of owner-occupants that simply either can't afford to make the necessary improvements to their homes or are unwilling to because they're not confident that the market will return that investment back to them.

We feel while the state has taken modest steps towards acknowledging the need for support of these households, that that's an area where we would like to see significantly more investment from the state in supporting homeowners who, again, are trying to maintain their homes and keep up with the market, but also as well on the rental market, in ensuring that all of our rental housing projects are mixed-income projects. We don't want exclusively low-income, we don't want exclusively luxury. We want a mix of incomes. And again, that we don't quite have the right tools in the toolkit, so that's something we would like to continue to work with you all on.

ALBANY MAYOR SHEEHAN:If I could add, in the City of Albany our Common Council passed an amendment to our inclusionary zoning. We used to require that all new market-rate apartments that were built, that 5 percent be set aside as affordable. They changed that. They increased the percentage that have to be set aside, and they decreased the -- they have to be affordable to people at 60 percent of area median income.

Since then we've had virtually no market-rate housing built in the City of Albany. I had cautioned the council against it, I told them that this was not the right way to approach it, and that we really needed to work with the state to figure out how can we create that tax incentive, right?

If somebody builds housing now that's affordable to people at 60 percent of area median income, you're looking at a project that gets tax credits, whether it's LIHTC or the 4 percent. And so figuring out how do we provide those incentives within market-rate housing. Because the biggest risk to the City of Albany right now, quite candidly, is for two years I've had no new significant projects proposed to create market-rate housing.

We do need housing for people who make 50, 60, 70, 80 thousand dollars a year, and it's not being built. The only thing that's being built right now in the City of Albany are low-income tax credit housing, which is -- you know, we need that, we need to continue to build it. But it would be wonderful to figure out a formula that allows for tax credits in a market-rate -- otherwise market-rate apartment.

SENATOR CHRIS RYAN:Thank you. And I look forward to -- we'll follow up on that as well.

The second question is regarding public safety. I know that, you know, prior to state government, in county government we struggled with staffing shortages. And I think that is also clearly evident in our public safety. My predecessor had a bill that I'm trying to advance which would raise the threshold with retirees from 35 -- I want to raise that. So I guess to you specifically, I'll ask Mayor Evans, is that something that you think would be a good bill? Could we support that? And would there be some cost savings?

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:Yeah, I absolutely would support that because that allows you to make sure that you maintain talent while at the same time making those that may have been retired and want to come back in and help out and alleviate some of the stress on the system, it gives them a greater incentive to want to be able to do that.

But I think 35,000 is way too low. It should at least be 50, 55,000 in order to really attract and for it to make sense for retirees to come back and relieve the system.

There's a staffing crisis in -- I believe in most cities. And if we can -- could do that, I think that that change would help out a lot of different areas across departments in our cities.

(Pause; reaction from dais.)

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:Real quick, I perked up on that one because I really wanted to be a part of that question. That is great, that idea. Because when you think about -- and the Governor was very helpful with us in giving us some additional funding that allowed us to help curb some gun violence. I want to say thank you to Governor Hochul on this budget, which I didn't say before but I'll say now, stick it in there real quick.

But that number should be as high as 70,000. I lose cops every day that are going -- they're retiring, and they're 42 years old and 43 years old.

Frankly, guys, the -- with no disrespect -- the best cops that you have are the 40- and 50-something-year-old cops, because, you know, they're not the young kids anymore, they're usually married, they usually have kids, they're somewhat secure. And to have them leave and go off is just -- just doesn't work for our city and does a disservice.

But I think that if we said, hey, you know what, you can retire, but we need you back sometimes. We need you back in case of a crisis. We need you back for parades or different events or if we know that there's going to be some type of, you know, mass type of demonstration or something, to have good officers like that, right -- seasoned, smart, and are willing to come back and be a part -- is good for our city.

SENATOR CHRIS RYAN:Thank you.

Last question. So we talked a lot -- I mean, obviously there's unfortunately childhood poverty, a concentration of childhood poverty. The question is -- I don't know who wants to take it, but it's a little bit of a difficult question. So the Governor has initiated or wants to have a $300 or $500 check, which could be up to $3 billion.

Do you -- does anybody want to answer the question that they think that that money might be better served combating childhood poverty and concentrated poverty in our cities than rebate checks?

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:I mean, it's a start. And childhood poverty is big, especially in the urban centers. We need more support. I mean, I'm sure each and every one of us sitting here was scared to death by the potential of federal cuts that were laid on us, potentially, that thank God were pulled. But for Yonkers, just so you know, that number was $100 million. It affected breakfast and -- school breakfast programs, lunch programs. This would have been an enormous shot at the -- at our kids in our attempt to try and give our kids a better life.

So, you know, the more we can put in, the better I think we'll be in terms of trying to create a better life for every --

SENATOR CHRIS RYAN:Well, I think too, with my last minute here too, you know, with the potential, we've already seen federal funding cut. We had some -- you know, we -- in the City of Syracuse refugee resettlement program, we do a lot of that. It's a great program. We've already seen where some of that is -- the money has gone. And we have already placed people, specifically 90. Ninety are here and -- you know, they're here, living. They're not able to afford food. They have to pay rent. So now the landlord is going to be short. So, you know, we don't want to get into -- out ahead of it, right, get over our skis because we don't know what's going to happen. But certainly it's -- we have to be mindful of it. And as that goes, it's going to be impactful, really impactful. And we're going to have a difficult time.

Thank you.

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:I made a slight error earlier, and I took away time from Assemblyman Jones. So -- I mean, to Burke. Timekeeper, could you put 7 minutes back on the clock?

ASSEMBLYMAN BURKE:Thank you, Mr. Chair. I won't say thank you at the end, just to make sure.

So if we want to just continue that conversation of, okay, the federal government is --

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:I remember the question. Do you want to start or --

ASSEMBLYMAN BURKE:Well, I'll just preface it. The federal government's unstable, you know, the State of New York can't print money. We're seeing a lot of local municipalities operating in structural deficits. What is your plan not just today, not just to -- obviously to come here and ask for increased AIM, which is a pretty constant discussion. But what is your long-term plan to get out of that structural deficit?

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:Yeah, I mean, one of the things that I've said in Rochester is the cavalry isn't going to come in and save us. We hope to partner with Albany and that Albany will be able to help us. But we knew that these ARPA dollars were just a sugar high and they were not going to last forever.

So we did not allocate those dollars to ongoing operating expenses. We felt that that would be foolhardy, so we did not do that. So while we still have challenges, yes, we're in a better position, but we are still in need of increases in AIM aid. If we don't get that, we have prioritized one, two, three, what things we would be able to do.

And we put things in three buckets: Things that we must do -- you've got to make sure you have clean water -- things that are nice to do -- yeah, we would like to have a pickleball court, but that might not be the number-one priority -- and things that we just cannot and no longer do. And by doing that, we've made sure that we make decisions that are still in the best interests of our citizens, but understanding that we may not be getting a deluge of money.

I will say that the threat of losing federal funding is very concerning, and we don't have an answer yet on what we would do there. For example, if someone said: Your city is no longer going to get CDBG dollars, what would happen? We don't know. I think we need to be prepared for that if they were -- if that was to be something that was going to be proposed, obviously we would fight that, on something like that.

But I think for us it's been prioritizing to make sure that we have -- keep our finances stable. And all the rating agencies have rated Rochester extremely high in terms of our bond rating. We want to keep it that way.

But we have to be honest here to say that we -- it makes it harder when we continue to see revenues decline and pension costs, healthcare costs continue to go up. So this is why you hear us constantly banging the drum about the AIM aid.

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:You know, Assemblyman, when the federal government cuts or comes up with a mandate, it falls back on you and then on us. And when you cut and come up with a -- you know, like Raise the Age, which had cost implications -- which we all supported, but there are cost implications to it -- again, it falls back on us.

And, you know, when I look at our healthcare, you know, Yonkers has a $1.5 billion budget. Almost 200 million goes to healthcare. An individual plan on healthcare, when I took office, was $18,000 per family. It's now $44,000 per family.

So, I mean, my answer to your question is we're the last line. We have to make it work. So when you say, well, what are you going to do -- well, you know what, we'll make tough choices. We'll break tax caps if we have to, or if we can. And sometimes the political will isn't there. And if not, then we will make cuts to our services.

Usually what happens is, you know, police, fire, sanitation, teachers, you try to figure out which one you might want to cut. You don't cut those that get cut last. But what do you cut? We cut middle management. Middle management disappears. You cut parks. You cut anything that kind of means anything to anybody. You know, the whole social bankruptcy issues where kind of this takes place. Because you cut all that stuff first, and then of course you're left with the bare-bones budget.

We have operated under this scare for a very long time, and we have times we're able to make it work, and times when we've had to make some severe cuts. And times we had to go to labor, our labor groups, and ask them for some relief. But, you know, we all know -- why? Well, we have Triborough. We can't get changes in our contracts. Cannot happen. We can ask them till we're blue in the face, and you know what, and they sit there like this {folding arms} and go, Nope, not changing anything. You just figure out what more you're going to give me, and I'll tell you what I'm willing to accept.

And so, you know, it's a challenge. I think it's a challenge for every one of us. But it's a challenge I think that we've all met, and we'll continue to meet it. My hope is that, like I said, with additional support, it won't be -- it won't be as difficult.

SYRACUSE MAYOR WALSH:Thank you, Assemblyman. Briefly, just to pick up on Mayor Spano's point, I think we are doing everything in our power.

The City of Syracuse's three largest sources of revenue: First is sales tax, which has been good, but we have no control over it. Second is AIM funding, which up until last year hadn't been increased in about 15 years. The third is property taxes. And we've had to increase property taxes on our already tax-burdened residents multiple times because that is the only one that we control.

So between that and making difficult cuts during the pandemic when we had to do that, identifying new revenue sources, whether it's the hotel room and occupancy tax -- and I appreciate the support on that. We are generating new revenue through cannabis, which is helpful. But our options are limited. And to Mayor Spano's point, if we're unable to gain additional revenue, we do have to make those difficult cuts.

So it's a partnership, and we're willing to continue to partner with you all to navigate those waters. But we're operating with about a $20 million structural deficit and haven't figured out a way to make it completely go away yet.

ALBANY MAYOR SHEEHAN:Thank you.

And I think that the -- you know, I agree with everything that my colleagues have said. We're in a little bit better position. We have been able to address our structural deficit. We have a little bit of a rainy day fund. But really our only lever is property taxes, and we all know that that is something that people are already feeling overburdened by.

And I think that the concern that we have is, you know, there are departments that would go away. For example, if there is no more CDBG and HUD funding, then the department that is responsible for administering that would no longer be there; same with our workforce development. I think this would be the worst time ever to eliminate workforce development funds, but that's been threatened.

But I think the other piece that is concerning to me is, you know, if you say, Well, we're no longer going to pay on Section 8 vouchers, you now have thousands of landlords across the state who are the ones that aren't getting paid. And so it really then throws into I think, you know, a huge challenge for our housing stock and for the viability of that.

So I think from an affordable housing standpoint, that's something that the state really needs to make sure that they're looking at what those impacts would be and how they could fill that void.

ASSEMBLYMAN BURKE:Thank you.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Assemblyman Jones?

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:Good afternoon, Mayors. I think we have the message: We need more AIM -- AIM, AIM, AIM. School aid, Mayor.

I was going to ask about housing, but I believe Senator Ryan, my colleague, has touched on that. And we're talking about raising the threshold from, you know, 35,000 now, to that, trying to recruit talented people to you. And I heard this at NYCOM yesterday, civil service. I hear it from the municipalities big and small, county government, everywhere. And we're hearing that there are issues there with hiring. I know, I used to be in local government. It's maybe a system that's kind of outgrown what it started out to be.

What can we do to help you perhaps change some of the civil service requirements and, you know, to be able to attract that talent that you need to run your cities and municipalities? I hear it all the time. I don't know -- we were just talking about cutting. I hope we don't have to get to cutting personnel. We want to hire the most talented individuals out there.

So what are some suggestions? We hear it all the time. I want to hear more suggestions from you on how to fix this antiquated system.

ALBANY MAYOR SHEEHAN:Well, thank you. And I do have to say we work very closely with New York State Civil Service, and they've been incredibly helpful. They provide technical assistance. They've shown flexibility. They've shown flexibility in how often we test, because we have so few people taking the police exam. It used to be that a thousand, 1500 people would take the police exam. I believe the last police exam that we gave, maybe 110 people actually took the exam. So we need to be able to do it more often.

So I think looking at those, our opportunities, I do think raising the amount that a retiree can earn can help tremendously with this interim. I think we have a lot of people who maybe retired during COVID but now have an appetite to come back. And that would create a tremendous amount of relief, particularly in our police department, but there are other places where that help would be tremendous as we kind of get through the challenges that we have with filling positions.

And so I think it really does need to be locality -- not locality by locality, but certainly like the issues that we see in hiring here are very different. We're competing with the state, which is challenging, because you pay more, and so -- and by eliminating the test, we have people who have made that jump over to different agencies.

So my situation here is different than what they may be seeing in Syracuse or Rochester; I don't want to speak for them.

(Off the record.)

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:Yeah, I said it before. We talked about it.

BUFFALO MAYOR SCANLON:I think what we're seeing is almost like -- it's a generational issue and people not as interested in taking these civil service positions on for one reason or another. Where these were highly coveted positions in decades past, they just don't seem like that for some reason, one reason or another.

But when it comes to our -- it's not just our police department, we see it in other departments too, our department of public works as well. I'm not able to attract the high-quality candidates that we want to. But when it comes to our police department, Mayor Sheehan hit the nail on the head. The reduction of the people just taking the exam is extreme. You know, we're talking 75 percent fewer people on the last police exam compared to the traditional number that we would experience.

So anything you could do as far as increasing that threshold for retirees to come back to work across the board in these departments would be extremely helpful.

SYRACUSE MAYOR WALSH:If I could just add one very specific point in addition to the retiree issue for recruiting new police officers. There's a couple of pieces of legislation that have been floating around regarding the maximum age for police officers to enter into the academy. Increasing that or removing it altogether and just base it on whether or not an individual has the ability to meet the requirements would be helpful to us.

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:I also think that if we were able to kind of tap into some of our local talent -- you know, I've been pushing for a while now to get a few extra points for our kids in our Yonkers School District. Right? Kids who have gone through the entire Yonkers school system from kindergarten to 12th grade, giving them maybe -- you know, not the same as veterans, obviously, but one or two points on a test, on a civil service exam. It would encourage them to stay in the city and it would encourage them to maybe become police officers, firefighters or what have you.

And I really think that our schools would take that and run with it because they would teach to it. And they'd say, you know what, you have an opportunity to stay in your very own city and actually have a career and raise your family here.

And it wouldn't take a lot. I know that when we spoke about it, somebody came up here with a proposal of five or six points. I know that that's just unrealistic, but I don't think you need much. One or two points to our kids and, you know what, when you talk about diversity in the workforce and you talk about a school district like Yonkers, which is, you know, 80 percent children that are Black and brown children, you're really giving a support to help make a difference in the community.

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:I'll just say in Rochester one of the things that we're doing to try to fix this issue is we have a career pathway to the public safety program in which we engage kids in high school. And when they're done, they can -- they're offered a job in fire, 911, or EMS. So we've done that because those are critical fields in which we have lots of shortages in. So state support for those types of programs I think is absolutely critical because you're creating the next generation of folks that take those jobs. We do it in the school year but also during the summer, and they're taught how to take the civil service exam and, more importantly, what it's like to work in those jobs. And we've hired lots of folks in 911 where we have a major shortage in fire as well as our EMS folks have been able to do that.

So I think we're going to have to be innovative and creative because it's not like it was 30 years ago where you had generations of people wanting to be firefighters, police officers and in other public safety fields. In those fields, but you also have to do that, I think, in other careers as well. You know, environmental services, heavy equipment operators, et cetera, all places where we have seen major shortages in.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:Is it -- is there an issue with the test or getting people to take the test?

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:For me I think -- for us I think it's an issue with getting people to actually take the test. That's one issue. And then if there are any barriers or types of things, they should be -- how do you remove those barriers so that way it's not in the way?

So for example, if it's an area where they require a psychological exam, is that necessary? Could that be removed, that -- I'm not saying I'm advocating for that for police, but those are the types of things you have to -- I think we have to be creative about.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:Okay. Thank you.

(Mics off; inaudible comments.)

SENATOR KRUEGER:Didn't want to make that mistake twice in a row.

Next we have Senator May.

SENATOR MAY:Thank you. Greetings, everyone.

I wanted to actually follow up on the question about the police. One of the things I heard from the Syracuse police chief a couple of years ago was that people were taking the test and it was taking nine months or 12 months for them to get the results back, and in the meantime they were going to North Carolina and getting a job in a police force.

Has that changed at all, Mayor Walsh?

SYRACUSE MAYOR WALSH:So it's still a challenge. I think that is at least in part because we rely solely on Onondaga County to administer civil service in the city. So we have -- there have been discussions about creating our own civil service office in the city. But that is one of the challenges, is making sure that everyone is getting information at the same time and quickly. But it is still a challenge.

SENATOR MAY:Okay. Thank you. That wasn't actually what I was going to ask about, so -- but just wanted to follow up on that.

So last year in the budget there was $50 million for Syracuse, Rochester and Buffalo for child poverty initiatives. Is it too soon to ask if any of those have shown any results or if you've come up with any great ideas that show promise?

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:I know in Rochester, Monroe County, I will say it's too soon. The important thing to point out about those dollars is that they went to OTDA -- I mean, through OTDA, which is not as easy as us just getting direct funding. So I think once our final plan is approved in Rochester, I think we'll be able to more coherently be able to pinpoint if there was great success stories that could be replicated.

SENATOR MAY:Okay. I'll ask then again next year.

And then Senator Ryan asked about the revolving fund for housing, for building affordable housing. I carry that bill. I believe in it strongly. But I want to know, what are the real barriers -- I know financing is one of the barriers. But is it workforce, is it permitting, is it the land? What are the biggest barriers for you for building affordable housing?

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:You know, Senator, we -- we've -- in the past 10 years we've built over 10,000 units of housing. Even though our ordinance is 10 percent, we've been actually going with 22 percent affordable. And we've been doing it because we've been partnering with nonprofits and trying to kind of make it all work, getting money from all of you, getting some additional federal money, and kind of putting it all together. Because we agree, we agree in Yonkers that affordable housing is important. We agree with the Governor that it's something that we have to focus like a laser on.

But it's not easy, though, because to go back to what -- can I finish what I was going to say, Senator?

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:I'm sorry.

SENATOR MAY:Thank you.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:You'll have to follow up again later.

Assemblymember Jacobson, three minutes.

ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good to see you. Most of you I've seen before, and I know what you're going through.

I don't have a lot of time. So one of my passions is replacing all lead contaminated water lines. I represent two cities, Newburgh and Poughkeepsie, who have a significant number of lines to replace. I don't have to tell you the problems with lead, and I'm sure I don't have to tell you of the deadline of 2034 by the EPA.

So what I would like to know is, are each of your cities on track to meet that 2034 deadline? Where are you getting your money from? Are there state programs working? I know you've got an infusion of cash in the last year or so from the federal government with the Infrastructure Act, and there's been that and you go through the Department of Health to get approval. So I want to know if the state -- the lead line replacement program and other programs are working and how you are doing. This is a passion and I'll be doing other stuff in the future on this. So go ahead.

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:Yeah, I'll just briefly say Rochester is on track for 2030. And we've cobbled together -- we use ARPA funds, state funds and federal funds, and we hope to meet our goal by 2030. And we're still on track, and hopefully we'll stay on track.

ALBANY MAYOR SHEEHAN:We are as well. I think the big threat is that that federal money that we have is reimbursable. So we're doing the work, we're supposed to get reimbursed, and there's a lot of uncertainty with respect to that.

SYRACUSE MAYOR WALSH:In Syracuse I would say, again, yes, on track. We've got at least 14,000 service lines. Next year we're slated to replace about 3,000 of them, and we want to stay at that clip. But the federal funding, through the bipartisan infrastructure law, is critical.

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:We're on track. It's our goal obviously to make it all work. We, thank God, don't have a huge issue in Yonkers because I guess with the age of the properties it's -- but we're on track.

BUFFALO MAYOR SCANLON:I don't want to tell you we're a hundred percent on track, having just been there a couple of months. But I will -- I can tell you that we will work towards that a hundred percent. And we've been cobbling together different pots of money to do so -- ARPA money, things like that.

But with the change in our sewer authority some other places, we'll make sure that we get there.

ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:That's good to hear. Maybe I can get more money for Newburgh and Poughkeepsie now.

(Laughter.)

ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:About how many lines do you have to replace? I'm just curious. If you know the numbers. Do you know the numbers or -- it's okay. It's not a gotcha question, I just wondered.

BUFFALO MAYOR SCANLON:I don't know.

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:I was putting the glass that -- (indicating water pitcher). I missed you in the ice, so.

SYRACUSE MAYOR WALSH:Since I mentioned it once, I'll mention it again because it's up there (indicating head). But at least 14,000 lines we have currently that need to be replaced. It's probably more. We still have a number of unknowns that we're looking at.

ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:Oops, I'm done.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:Thank you.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Senator Brouk.

SENATOR BROUK:Thank you. And thank you all, to all of our partners in local government, for being here today.

My questions are going to be towards my mayor, my constituent, Mayor Evans.

So thank you for your testimony and thank you for all of your leadership in very tumultuous times both globally, nationally, and of course locally as well.

I wanted to talk about -- you know, I literally was sitting here a second ago and someone asked me, Why is the poverty so high in Rochester? And I said, Well, how much time do you have? There's a number of reasons historically, right? But I think you brought up a number of them. You know, you look at the loss of major employers back in the day; redlining, which has led to incredible concentrated poverty that we see in our community. And you talked about the Inner Loop, which literally devastated divided, really robust Black and brown communities in Rochester that have yet to be rebuilt.

And so, you know, we've talked a lot about AIM funding. We worked with you to try to improve some of the levels of AIM funding. But I want to just make sure that we have the correct context here. Can you remind us what is the gap that you're trying to fill with AIM funding to create some version of parity with similar upstate cities?

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:Yeah, I mean the parity is $32.7 million, and that's not even asking for anything extra. That is just asking per capita in terms of what every other city gets. So if we got that, that would at a minimum just create parity, and it would allow us to address a lot of those ingrained issues that you have just so articulately mentioned.

SENATOR BROUK:So 32.7. And last year what was the increase that you got in AIM funding?

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:Last year the increase was $5 million.

SENATOR BROUK:Five million, okay. So that's a big gap that we're trying to fill. And then obviously -- and that would be ongoing funding, right? And that's the idea here, to not have one-time funding.

But I do know that we were able to benefit from some anti-poverty dollars. And I know that you talked about some of the programs that you've been able to bring online. How much of those dollars, of those 25 million, have you actually seen to be able to implement programs?

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:So, so far, as you know, those dollars flow through the county in the zip codes that are in the city. And we are still working on our final plan, getting approval from OTDA, because they weren't direct dollars. But the goal is, is that hopefully we will see impact in those zip codes once those dollars are finally released.

SENATOR BROUK:And in the final 30 seconds, is there anything that we can look at in terms of adjusting how those anti-poverty dollars are sent to communities to make sure they get to you faster?

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:The best model ever, that was ever invented, was ARPA. The money comes directly to cities. We had an independent evaluator that evaluated every single dollar that we spent. We put out a book that talked about how we spent every dollar.

If you want to help local governments, the best thing is to eliminate any red tape and let the money go straight to cities. As Joe Biden used to say: "Mayors know how to spend money. They know how to get things done." Give the money directly to us.

SENATOR BROUK:Thank you.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

And we've been joined by our Assembly ranker, Ari Brown, for five minutes.

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:Thank you, Madam Chair. I've been involved with local governments for two and a half decades; I always every year had to hold my breath when that medical bill would come in: How much is it going to go up, or our contribution towards state pension? Our little village used to be 2500; now I'm spending about 300 grand a year. You never know.

So I ask any one of you, how'd everybody do paying in funding for the illegal immigration issue? How'd that affect you this past few years? Put a dent in your budget in any way?

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:You know what, Assemblyman, it didn't. It wasn't significant. Thank God. I mean, we in Yonkers, because we are a neighbor to New York City, received a migrant hotel. No one called us, no one said, hey, we're sending -- we're going to fill up a hotel in your community and we're going to come north. And it was kind of unfair. But at the end of the day we in Yonkers are hospitable and we took care of our guests. They were there, we worked with the county, we worked with the not-for-profits, and now they're gone.

I had very little issues in terms of law enforcement issues. I had minimum impact to my school district. And so, you know, it turned out to be okay. But there was still that angst in the beginning, if you remember, and a lot of it was caused by really -- by New York City's inability to communicate with us what they had planned to do and instead just laid it on us. And that was in no way fair.

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:Did anybody spend a hundred thousand, a couple of million dollars, anything towards -- of your budget towards this issue to mitigate the issue?

ALBANY MAYOR SHEEHAN:I mean, I think if you look at maybe the time that we spent. But no, I mean this was not a hit to our budget. We worked with the community-based organizations that worked with migrants in our city already. We're a refugee resettlement community. We are used to having to ensure that families are getting the support that they need and access to healthcare that they need. A lot of that is done through volunteers.

But we did work to coordinate to make sure that those organizations had the resources that they needed in order to be able to ensure that the migrants that were coming here had access to legal services and that the services that they were supposed to be receiving, they were actually receiving.

And so it was really more just advocating. You know, it was our -- as we look at public safety, we had an influx of people who came into our community who were probably most at risk of being taken advantage of and preyed upon. And so we really worked -- actually it was an entire class at UAlbany that worked on strategies for ensuring that migrants coming to our community are not, you know, subjected to either, you know, crime, scams, you know, all of the things that they were vulnerable to.

So it was really just more an involvement of personnel. You know, being on calls. Police department. Just everybody making sure that we knew what the needs were and were able to coordinate that.

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:Thank you, Mayor. So I asked this question, it sounds like similar communities to Long Island, many middle-class, hardworking, everybody pays their taxes, we struggle, you know, put our kids through school and everything else like that. The billions of dollars that the state put towards last year's budget alone was $2.4 billion. You think if we divided that up into five, you know, give you each a billion dollars each, that would have helped your community in any way? I mean, shouldn't it go to the hardworking citizens of your communities first and foremost so you don't have to sweat it out, you know, during budget time like we all have to do for our own communities? Would that have made any difference, a billion dollars each or half a billion dollars each? Would that have helped you?

You could say yes. They know the answer.

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:If you're proposing giving us all a billion each, thank you, Assemblyman.

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:We'll take it.

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:That's it. Thank you all for being here today.

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:Thank you, Assemblyman.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Okay, thank you.

Senator Pat Fahy.

SENATOR FAHY:Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Mayors. Wonderful to see each of you. And I, like my colleague a moment ago, am going to direct my questions to my mayor, and that is Mayor Sheehan.

I haven't always been on a committee where I can ask questions, but this year I am on a committee. And I know this will be your last presentation, so thank you on a whole host of levels. Thank you for your tremendous advocacy heading the Conference of Mayors last year to finally help, along with the help of all of you, to move the needle on AIM. That was -- lots of frustration on that over my dozen years in service, so it's great that we moved it. I hope we can move it again.

I share the bias here with the mayor of Albany, and that is probably no one is more disadvantaged on that in terms of upstate cities than the City of Albany, where I also live. And thank you for the reminder that 64 percent of the land in Albany is tax-deductible.

Two questions. The biggest surprise, but the most welcome one in the budget this year for me was the $400 million that the Governor is proposing for -- it's like a "it's our turn" of upstate cities in terms of an investment with capital dollars.

Can you particularly talk about the $200 million part of that and what types of projects you'd like to see, Mayor?

ALBANY MAYOR SHEEHAN:Certainly. I mean, we have a piece of property that is prime for redevelopment. It's where the Greyhound Bus Station currently is located. It is a parcel that was accumulated -- originally there was going to be a convention center there. The convention center moved. And so it really has become an eyesore.

And we know that we need to make a major investment there, but it also creates a tremendous opportunity for creating taxable property; housing, which is desperately needed; and we'd love to see a new major attraction in our downtown. Again, with the office market being what it is, we also see that funding being available to help with more conversions.

We also did a significant number of conversions of Class B and C office space to housing. All of that housing is full. We have a new neighborhood downtown. But we could definitely use more housing units. And so looking at more office conversions, given the reality that we see now, which is that most -- most workplaces are still hybrid. I mean, the state being the largest one. But many of our law firms and accounting firms are as well.

SENATOR FAHY:Thank you for pointing out the limitations of the inclusionary zoning that I know is -- it's troubling me that we haven't had any new major starts of housing in Albany in the last couple of years. I support the permanent pilot funding as well.

In the last few seconds, can you talk about the impact of any cuts on federal funding such as CDBG grants?

ALBANY MAYOR SHEEHAN:Yeah, I think that we're very concerned. We have small community-based organizations, but they do tremendous work. And without these funds, it really -- it takes some of the fabric of our community away.

SENATOR FAHY:Thank you, Mayor. Thank you again for -- thanks to each of you for your advocacy and service.

Thank you, Chair.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you very much.

Next we have Senator Jackson -- oh, excuse me, Assemblymember Jackson.

(Laughter; comments off the record.)

ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:Thank you, Chair.

I just want to say that I've spent time in every last one of your cities. And last night, Mayor Sheehan, I was actually at the museum. My son loves the carousel.

But I have to say that the Strong National Museum of Play in Rochester is absolutely amazing, and I'm encouraging everyone to go and visit both museums. We have to increase funding for that museum to make it just a beautiful place that everyone wants to stop and go to.

And I just want to also say that in Buffalo, during COVID, that was the only space that my daughter and I went to visit and spend time so we can be around Niagara Falls, be out in the open.

Syracuse has the most amazing schools. You all have amazing schools, educational -- sorry, colleges in your cities. And I'm just wondering how you all are keeping those students there to maybe work and be a part of your -- the new residents there in your cities. I'm also thinking about tourism. How is that impacting your cities? Will that help you all with the funding you all need?

Of course in Albany we'll make sure that we do our part, but I also want to hear about that. And thank you for the office conversions. I think you have to increase those. I was about to say that. Work from home I don't think is decreasing, it's actually increasing.

So if we can talk to like how you guys are retaining your -- maybe students who are coming to the schools in your cities.

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:Assemblywoman, you know, one of the things that you all did was still the tax credit for films, and that spurred on a movement of the film industry into our state. Yonkers has actually done really well there. We're going to have main studios, potentially 22 studios in a community that has 30 percent unemployment.

And we just partnered with Lionsgate and Great Point Studios to build a new high school. And the high school, it's going to be from sixth grade -- actually, a middle school to a high school -- to 12th grade. And the children who are going to attend our schools -- again, the children who are predominantly Black and brown children in our city, will be able to go to Robert Halmi School, they're going to learn that industry. And then they're going to be given, every year, be given the opportunity to work in the industry or move on to NYU, to Syracuse University, Newhouse.

Again, this is a direct line to the middle class for our kids. And it all started with New York State giving us those tax credits. So thank you.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:Gotcha.

And I spend the most time in Yonkers, by the way, outside of the Bronx.

(Laughter.)

ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:But any other thoughts on what we should be doing to increase tourism? Anybody, last 10 seconds?

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:I would say just continue to market, market, market and make sure that we tell our stories, that -- what each of our individual cities has to offer for sure.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:Thank you.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

Senator Jeremy Cooney.

SENATOR COONEY:(Mic off.) Thank you, Chair.

Good afternoon, Mayors, always wonderful to see you. And thank you for your public service. I greatly appreciate it.

Mayor Evans, Happy Birthday.

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:Thank you.

SENATOR COONEY:I know we need to give you a piece of cake with 33 million candles on it --

(Laughter.)

SENATOR COONEY:-- to make up for AIM.

But I want to talk about your aggressive and I think appropriate plan to combat vehicular pedestrian and cyclist injury and death occurring in the City of Rochester. A lot of it was based upon Vision Zero, which we've seen success across the country. But as the chair of the Transportation Committee, I find this particularly compelling.

One item in particular I wanted to ask you about, with the proposed Bus Rapid Transit for Lake Avenue, which of course is in my district. And we've seen a number of unfortunate injuries and fatalities along Lake Ave. How do you see this project transforming our city? And what funding necessary do you require?

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:Yeah, I think that we require obviously some serious funding to be able to do this. But this would transform our city because it would transform the most dangerous corridor in our city, where most of our pedestrian accidents have happened. It is an area that I sometimes refer to as a speedway. And in fact, you know, there is a famous artist that wrote a song about speeding down Lake Avenue, Lou Gramm.

So it has that dubious distinction. I think that that will allow people to use more than cars. Cars are important for some people to be able to use, but we want people to have all types of transportation options. And this project will allow us to be able to do that. We believe that it will decrease pedestrian fatalities that we have. You know, these aren't accidents, these are crashes that are happening. And it will help not only with design but also give people the ability to move about their day with other forms of transportation options. And I think that that is absolutely critical.

You know, we're proud to be one of the few cities that have embraced this Vision Zero concept and framework. Pedestrian deaths since COVID have really skyrocketed across the country and Rochester has been no exception. So we believe that this project will be transformational in helping us to meet our Vision Zero goals of having zero pedestrian deaths in the future.

SENATOR COONEY:Thank you, Mayor.

And I want to also thank you for your support of expanding public transportation in general. I know this is important to all of your cities, but particularly as we see more of these large employers and jobs coming outside of our center cities into more rural industrial spaces, how do we connect workers who are in the city to these job opportunities? You've supported my $5 million fund for a transit worker equity fund which would work with RTS, in our case -- but with Centro and FTA, CDTA, we would make sure that all of these transit authorities, non-MTA transit authorities, have that opportunity.

Thank you, Chair.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

Let's see. We have next Assemblymember Conrad.

ASSEMBLYMAN CONRAD:Thank you, Chairs.

Mayors, good to see you. I know all of you are very disappointed about the Buffalo Bills loss of the season. Except I have to say, Mayor Sheehan, driving into town I saw a Jets billboard. We'll talk later.

(Laughter.)

ASSEMBLYMAN CONRAD:One of the -- I'm completely sympathetic, having come from local government, on the AIM issue. Whether it's CHIPS, AIM, you know, the conversation continues. And I won't belabor that question of how we're going to pay for these things going forward in the future.

I have got one question for Mayor Scanlon; if there's time, one for the rest.

Mayor Scanlon, in all of the inquiries that I get to my office, there's one consistent thing that has kind of what I would say gone undiscussed. And in the City of Buffalo there's an animal shelter, and we get quite a few calls in my office about the dilapidated conditions of the animal shelter. We've got a lot of folks who are very passionate about animals. They've gotten I think nowhere at this point.

What's your thoughts? Are we doing something on that? Where are we with the animal shelter?

BUFFALO MAYOR SCANLON:Thank you, Assemblymember. And some of us took that Bills loss a little harder than the others.

ASSEMBLYMAN CONRAD:Yeah, I could imagine.

BUFFALO MAYOR SCANLON:Yeah.

But thank you for the question. Yeah, there's an issue there at the animal shelter that's being rectified. We are in the final stages of entering into a lease for a new location that is adjacent to some city-owned property which would provide some green space for the animals as well.

I understand and I'm very sympathetic to the concerns of people within the community and the concerns and the issues that have gone on at the animal shelter for the past couple of years, really coming to light this year. I was unaware of some of the conditions that existed there. But they have been -- they are being addressed, and we are in the very final stages of a lease entering into a new location.

ASSEMBLYMAN CONRAD:Okay, thank you.

And then to the rest of everyone here on the panel, we just had our neighbors from the north, Canada, in town talking about potential tariffs. Is that anything that you folks are looking at economically as impact to your cities? I'll start with Mayor Scanlon and go down the line.

BUFFALO MAYOR SCANLON:Yeah, as a border city, it's a major concern, obviously. Tourism, things of that nature, trading with Canada, a major trade partner. It's -- some of the things going on at the federal government level, federal level, are very concerning.

And we're looking at the -- you know, we're here talking about different things that impact us and, you know, sales tax is one that impacts the City of Buffalo, and we draw a tremendous number of tourists from Southern Ontario and up towards Toronto coming to Buffalo as well. So it could impact us in a number of different ways. So we're keeping a very close eye on it and taking any precautions that we are building into -- looking at our budget for any impacts that might come in the future.

ASSEMBLYMAN CONRAD:Does it affect anybody else directly?

SYRACUSE MAYOR WALSH:I would add similarly, tourism is a -- has a significant potential impact.

But I also want to mention one related to what we've been discussing: Lumber costs. That could have a devastating effect on our ability to build more housing.

ASSEMBLYMAN CONRAD:Good to know. Thank you.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

Ranker Walczyk for five minutes. Senator Walczyk.

SENATOR WALCZYK:Thanks so much, Chairwoman.

Mayor Walsh, I can appreciate the sentiment of the Athenian Oath in reporting Syracuse is "not only not less, but greater, better and more beautiful than it was transmitted to us." What an awesome mission, and right in line with the state's mission of Excelsior, ever upward. And right in your namesake of Syracuse. A beautiful sentiment and aligns with some of the questions that I have for some of the things that you have for a brighter future for Syracuse.

SYRACUSE MAYOR WALSH:Sure.

SENATOR WALCZYK:Can you talk about tourism in Syracuse and what that looks like in the future for us?

SYRACUSE MAYOR WALSH:So one of -- we have a lot of things that bring in tourism, whether it's our natural resources, our large institutions -- of course Syracuse University's there.

And one thing that I want to mention relative to a need in Syracuse is hotel rooms. So as -- the good news is we've seen a number of properties converted from older hotel space to residential, which we need. But it's left us a hole of about nearly 600 hotel rooms in the City of Syracuse. So we are working aggressively to try to get new hotel product online.

But beyond that, you know, I think no different than any other community. Tourism is an important aspect of our local economy.

SENATOR WALCZYK:That was actually a perfect segue, because my next question was actually about hotels. Because you sit at the confluence of 81 and 90, grew up on the Erie Canal, and have always been that corridor of commerce and tourism. The state has invested in a lot of things to bring tourism to the region. And then you have your Oncenter downtown.

But if you're underbuilt for hotels, it's really difficult to do that. So what do we have in the hopper, and how can the state be a good partner in that mission?

SYRACUSE MAYOR WALSH:Great question.

So we have -- we just recently announced a new hotel project, Onondaga Hotel, right downtown just a few blocks from the Oncenter. County Executive McMahon has an RFP out for county land for a hotel.

So the pipeline is starting to build. And one of the things that I would encourage the state to think about is when it comes to deploying economic development resources, grant dollars to projects, I think sometimes we fall back on more traditional, antiquated definitions of what defines economic development. And also doesn't necessarily account for the unique aspects in particular communities or unique dynamics that may exist in Syracuse but don't exist in Albany.

So we've been having conversations with the state, particularly Empire State Development, about how important it is to assist us in supporting hotel projects because it does have that ripple effect. So it's something that I'd like to see more willingness on the part of Empire State Development to support us in those efforts.

SENATOR WALCZYK:Okay. So primarily when we're looking at the budget for hotel development in Syracuse, we should be looking at Empire State Development?

SYRACUSE MAYOR WALSH:So yeah, like most projects, it's hard to make them pencil out. And so, again, understanding -- and ESD's been a great partner. They've made significant investments in Syracuse. But that's a particular area where we've been having recent discussions where, you know, a couple of million dollars could put the project over the top and bring not only property on the tax rolls, bring both construction jobs and permanent -- accessible, permanent jobs.

SENATOR WALCZYK:Kind of as you mentioned, hotels were converted to housing to fill that need for housing. And in your testimony you said a plan for housing and community revitalization. What does that look like for Syracuse?

SYRACUSE MAYOR WALSH:Boy. Okay, one -- about a minute to talk about it.

It's multifaceted. So, you know, we are building more new single-family owner-occupied homes than have been built in decades. I would give a shout out to HCR and specifically the state's AHOP program, which has been really just a great new tool in our toolkit.

So we're building a lot of new owner-occupied housing. We're building a lot of rental housing. We have a number of LIHTC projects in the pipeline. The state's been a big supporter of an old state developmental center that we're converting to new housing. So it's hitting at different income levels, mixed-income, owner-occupied and rental. You know, it's an all-of-the-above strategy.

SENATOR WALCZYK:Thanks very much.

I'll turn back the last 20 seconds of my time and just say Go, Bills!

(Laughter.)

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

Assemblymember Ravina.

ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA:Rivera.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Excuse me. I'm just trying to read someone else's handwriting.

ASSEMBLYMAN RIVERA:Hi. Thank you.

So I just want to start by saying I have been a visitor in all of your cities and from someone that comes from local government, I know that you guys have tough, tough, tough jobs. And it's difficult to find support and often difficult to find practicality in the world of expectations that are sometimes unfair. So it's not easy to take on the task of leading a city, but I commend everybody for making that sacrifice.

This question is for my mayor, Mayor Scanlon. You know, recently I was able to go visit Rochester and I met with folks there that I've been working on the rental inspection issue for many years. Rochester really seems to have figured out the right way to do it. They have invested resources towards it, and it's clearly a measurable success that they've had. In not just determining where lead has poisoned children but also going down to the granular of specific homes where it's a prevalent problem.

In the conversations that I've had with council members and with folks back home, it's been a consistent concern, where we are with the rental inspection program for the City of Buffalo. And it seems like, one, we're not investing in that program enough. And it also seems as though the results that we're getting from that program is not really showing us much results. I don't know if it's a matter of the equipment we're using, the amount of personnel that we have, or sort of the back-and-forth between the city feeling that the country has a bigger role.

But at the end of the day we have a clear problem where we are, and I say this as a parent that's raising a daughter in a high-lead zip code that concerns me every day. And it's also something that I believe in here in this body, where I carry multiple pieces of legislation around lead.

I honestly think that, you know -- and I'm not putting it on you as if it's all your fault, certainly, because this is an issue of the prior administration and the last 50 years' worth of administration that's at fault. But we aren't doing enough on this. And the resources that we provide, whether it be through the state or really any entity, towards the city, it doesn't seem to be going to this issue that I believe we can eradicate in a generation.

So I say all that to say that, you know, do you anticipate using any funding that you've discussed needing or wanting towards this issue?

BUFFALO MAYOR SCANLON:Yeah, I think you touched on the issue that has been plaguing the PRI program, is the pointing of fingers between the city and the county for a number of years.

I think we've moved past that, and I have a good partner in our county executive now. Two years ago I sponsored legislation that doubled the fee associated with the rental registration fee, which brought an additional million dollars into our budget which paid for additional inspectors. The problem is they're just finishing up with all their training. They'll be out in the field soon. And I think we'll be able to hit those goals in the near future.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

I'm going to go to an additional Assemblymember, Assemblymember Sayegh. Not here. Then let's try Assemblywoman Shimsky.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:Thank you so much, Madam Chair.

And thank you to all of you for being here and helping to guide us as we find our way through the priorities.

My big issue is generally capital and infrastructure spending. And we often talk about new initiatives, but one of the big problems that so many local governments are facing is that maintenance on various systems has not been able to be kept up with for a long time, and there are really serious problems as a result. I mean, you're talking about building structures, building systems, roads and bridges, parks, clean water, wastewater.

What do you see as the particular infrastructure maintenance issues that are most concerning your municipalities at this point?

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:You know, Assemblywoman, we could just run through the list. I mean, obviously schools. I have at least a billion dollars in needs in terms of what infrastructure needs we have for the schools. We have a tremendous amount of needs. We haven't touched our library system nor our libraries in a long time. We were able to take advantage recently of the lower rates when they were lower to rebuild many of our parks.

But it works like this. For every $30 million I borrow, that I have to raise property taxes 1 percent. You all gave us a 2 percent tax cap. You know, that makes our life a little difficult because the infrastructure doesn't go outside the tax cap. And if it did, it might actually help us a little bit. That we'd recognize that maybe if we have to borrow money for a project that is significant for our community, that maybe that should be outside the tax cap, we'll just start it out there.

BUFFALO MAYOR SCANLON:I think from our point, a similar -- the biggest issue we're facing on the capital front is the elimination of the Joint Schools Construction Board and the impact that has on our ability to maintain our buildings within the local public school system and our other infrastructure needs.

This year we passed the largest capital budget in the city's history -- 55 million of that was the city of Buffalo's public schools. So moving forward, we'd love to see the Joint Schools Construction Board reinstituted so the Buffalo public schools aren't coming and gobbling up a lot of our capital budget needs or the assets that we have at our disposal. So I think that's the big issue that we're facing.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you. I don't think you can use the 8 seconds.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:You can have it back, Madam Chair.

(Laughter.)

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you, Assemblywoman.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:And thank you.

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:Thanks, Assemblywoman.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:(Mic off) -- migrants being sent by bus or arrangements made with hotels.

So for the record, my family were undocumented; none of my family had paperwork when we got here. We probably -- we didn't have a dime as far as I know from my family history. We were fleeing pogroms and the Nazis in Eastern Europe. And yet pretty quickly we turned things around for ourselves and became contributing members of the American society, and I even got to be a Senator.

So people have asked about the costs for you. And we know that there are costs. But we also know from research that very quickly it turns around to be another story where immigrants actually end up being contributors both from a tax perspective and new employees and starting new businesses.

So I'm curious, have your cities actually seen advantages as you have new people moving into your communities?

ALBANY MAYOR SHEEHAN:Well, certainly within the City of Albany we had employers who were asking me if I could get buses of migrants to come to our community because of the need in our workforce.

When we saw a significant reduction in the number of refugees who were allowed to legally come into this country under the refugee resettlement program, it had an impact on our hospitals, on our restaurants, on many of our employers. And we were only just starting to recover from that under the Biden administration, and so there still is a very significant need for labor.

I mean, this area would not have grown if it were not for immigration. We want immigrants to be here and to be able to work legally. We want to ensure that those who are protecting our border are doing their jobs. But when we have folks who are here in our community, our experience has been that we are able to see them in a very short period of time do things like open businesses. You know, we have an international school here because we have many refugees who come here, so we have a school that's focused on new language learners, and then they move out of that school and into our regular school district.

And so we have an entire group of community-based organizations have really developed around supporting, helping people to become very successful. And I think we have to ensure that we continue to be welcoming as we see our population aging and people retiring and the need to replenish our workforce.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

Other mayors?

SYRACUSE MAYOR WALSH:Yeah, I'll chime in. Everything that Mayor Sheehan said, completely agree. We are a proud refugee resettlement and immigrant community in Syracuse. There are over 80 languages spoken in the Syracuse City School District.

Our population, our city population grew in the last census for the first time in 70 years. That would not have happened without refugee resettlement. We're very concerned about a slowdown of resettlement under the current administration. So we're a proud welcoming community and intend to stay that way.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:Senator, you know what, Yonkers is that type of immigrant community. I'm the grandson of Italian immigrants. And that's always been a good thing. And we've always, as any urban center has, we've always been -- took our fair share and then some. And that was never an issue.

My issue is when New York City decided to impose its will on a much smaller community. Their impact on Yonkers could have really had a -- could have had a devastating effect on our Board of Education budget. It was a budget-buster. And so -- and it was done so without real -- without even a consultation with us. That's when we had the issue. Up until then, we're willing to be partners and we'll partner any which way we can, and share. And we have. That's been our -- that's been our past.

But I think in the future, though, we should be looking -- communities shouldn't have things just thrown on them.

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:Obviously Rochester is a refugee resettlement community. We've been one for decades. These refugees are now business owners, they're now homeowners, they contribute to the tax base and to revenue in our city.

But I should also point out a lot of them played by the rules. They wait for years to get a pathway to citizenship. So we're very concerned about how refugees will be treated in the future, but we're also concerned about the organizations that are supporting these refugees and helping them resettle and acclimate and assimilate into our community.

But I think that they are a part of the economic development lifeline that you have in cities. They come here with skills, they come here with love of family, and they end up loving America. And that is the case in Rochester with our refugee resettlement program, and I hope that we can find a way to make sure that they can continue to contribute to the vibrancy of all of our cities, and all of the cities across New York State.

BUFFALO MAYOR SCANLON:Thank you, Senator. You know, Buffalo is a very welcoming city and our diversity is quite frankly our strength. And much like my counterparts here, we welcome new Americans to our city.

Just like Syracuse, our immigrant population, our new Americans, led to our first population increase in over seven years. The last census was the first population increase we had, and these are new Americans who are contributing to our tax base, opening businesses, things of that nature. And that's no different than how things have taken place in our cities or other cities across the country as long as this country's been around.

So we welcome them and look forward to partnering with the agencies that help to assimilate them and adjust to their new lives here in America.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

So I'll just ask you each, but just your one answer.

So here in Albany we are looking at the state budget through a lens of how much are we going to lose from the federal government. And we're all reading the newspapers every day. You're all smart mayors of significant-sized towns. You know what's going on in Washington. What's your number-one biggest worry, from your budget perspective, if things that we're hearing coming out of Washington are true?

BUFFALO MAYOR SCANLON:Our block grant, if that were frozen and not allocated to the City of Buffalo, would be extremely detrimental. We have one of the larger CDBG allocations in the country, and the amount of organizations and users that receive that funding would be traumatically impacted. So that's probably the largest.

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:CDBG, but I can't forget about federal highway dollars. I mean, those are critical, critical dollars to make sure that you keep the infrastructure strong in your cities.

So CDBG and federal highway concern me greatly.

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:We just identified by going through our budgets, about a hundred million dollars. It would really be an attack on the core of everything that we do in our cities. I don't know -- there wouldn't be a way to recover, in my opinion, unless someone disagrees with me.

SYRACUSE MAYOR WALSH:Certainly CDBG. I think more broadly, just the uncertainty of everything. We have significant projects already underway or about to be underway with significant federal support. I mentioned Interstate 81, 2.25 billion. We don't have any reason to believe that that funding dries up or stalls. But that uncertainty creates anxiety.

Similarly with the Micron project. Again, the deal's inked, signed, moving forward. But that uncertainty, again, it undermines our ability to advance as a community.

ALBANY MAYOR SHEEHAN:And I think all of those things and the money that we've already spent. So reimbursements that are -- we're contracted for, we've spent the money, we're supposed to spend it over a period of years. If for some reason that cash doesn't come in, that will have a pretty immediate impact and we'll have to make some very difficult decisions.

So, you know, in addition to being concerned about future projects and investments that we are looking to make, it's the dollars that we've already spent and that we're contractually obligated to pay out, and not getting reimbursed for those.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you. I'm going to give back my minute 20 seconds.

ALBANY MAYOR SHEEHAN:Senator, before you do that, can I just say thank you. It has been a pleasure to be testifying here to your committee all these years, and I appreciate the hard questions and it's been great. I'm sad that this is my last one. But thank you.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Since this is your last one, I certainly wish you the best going forward.

ALBANY MAYOR SHEEHAN:Thank you.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:So thank you, Mayor Sheehan.

I'm returning it to the Assembly. We are done with Senators.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:We certainly are.

Okay --

(Laughter.)

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:I beg your pardon.

(Laughter.)

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:You notice how he just wanders off for a while and now --

(Laughter.)

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Assemblyman Dais.

ASSEMBLYMAN DAIS:Hi. We're going to be brief questions and answers, I guess, only -- I have three minutes, not 10.

So Buffalo, despite the team that plays there -- I'm a Jets fan, unfortunately -- I had the honor to work for Joe Burns, who is running the Buffalo Stadium project. How are we doing on the MBE and WBE numbers for that stadium? Briefly.

BUFFALO MAYOR SCANLON:Yeah. Thank you. And it's a tough existence, Assemblymember, as a Jets fan lately.

(Laughter.)

BUFFALO MAYOR SCANLON:Things are going very well. And you have a tremendous partner here in state government and Senator April Baskin, who, when at the Erie County Legislature, fought tirelessly to incorporate a community benefits agreement within that stadium process. And those goals were implemented because of her hard work.

So I think things are very much on track there.

ASSEMBLYMAN DAIS:Thank you.

So construction's a big concern for me. I believe building infrastructure is the way we move New York forward. So just very briefly, across to all of you, for your major projects do you do lump-sum projects? Do you have progressive design-build?

How do you bid out your construction projects?

SYRACUSE MAYOR WALSH:So I'll start on the big scale, and it's a State DOT project. The 81 project had very aggressive local hiring provisions which DOT is doing really well meeting.

On the city front, you know, that is an area where we've spending a lot of time looking at our procurement process, and what we've been determining is where we can chunk up projects into smaller amounts -- so I'll give you an example. We have a municipal sidewalk program where we reconstruct miles of sidewalks every year, and what we're finding is some of our smaller contractors, including MWBE contractors, just aren't able to take on the big chunks. But going into the next year, we're looking to break those up into smaller -- and make them more accessible.

So I'm not sure if that's what you were getting at, but that's an area where we think that there's room for improvement, and we're working towards that.

ASSEMBLYMAN DAIS:Understood.

Go ahead.

BUFFALO MAYOR SCANLON:Yeah, and we're working with several contractors, along with our Department of Public Works.

A lot of times some of the MWBEs might not meet thresholds or goals to have them included in bids, so we're trying to create some carveouts for some of those organizations to get their foot in the door so they can build and become permanent people who can build on these contracts.

ASSEMBLYMAN DAIS:Mayor Spano.

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:We just built a school and we monitor that very, very closely. We've stayed consistent with all of our goals and we'll continue to do that.

ASSEMBLYMAN DAIS:Thank you. Judge Tolbert's a good friend of mine back in the day. I know you know Judge Tolbert very well.

I'm sorry, Mayor, I apologize.

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:No, I was going to say the same in Rochester. Absolutely, those are very important things.

ASSEMBLYMAN DAIS:Thank you. I just -- infrastructure's going to be key. I think especially for the smaller municipalities or the smaller cities, we've got to make sure that your electrical systems are upgraded, transmission lines, sewer, power, lead and water pipes. We've got to make sure we put a focus on it.

Thank you.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Assemblywoman González-Rojas.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS: Thank you. If I can just turn this on. There we go.

Thank you to all our mayors that are here today. And I want to first thank you all for your incredible work on both refugee resettlements and supporting our asylum seekers.

I want to note for the record that a majority of the people that have arrived here are not illegal, they're not even undocumented. They're here with legal status awaiting their asylee cases. So thank you for welcoming them and ensuring that they're integrated into our communities. I really appreciate your comments earlier.

My question is for Mayor Evans. I know in Rochester the Asthma and Allergy Foundation of America noted that Rochester jumped from 10th to 2nd in terms of the "Asthma Capital."

And I know that inhalers are often cost-prohibitive for families. I actually have a bill that would eliminate that cost to consumers. Last year in our budget we passed a bill that would eliminate the cost for insulin, and we're modeling my bill off of that. So it's something we were able to include in the budget.

I'm curious if that's a proposal you would support. And I'm curious what -- why do you think that asthma rates have increased so much in your city?

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:Yeah, I think in terms of the asthma rates and the increase, I think we don't know. But I think there are some environmental factors that might be playing a role there, but I think we need to dig in deeper with that.

But in terms of supporting a bill, we would absolutely support that because really that is a life-or-death device that someone needs to have with them. If someone does not have that asthma pump when they need it, I mean, they won't be around long.

So anything that we can do to lower barriers to people having access to that pump is something that we would be very, very supportive of.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS: Great. Thank you so much.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:That is it? Oh.

Well, Mayors, I want to thank you. I'll just -- I don't have any real questions. I want to congratulate you all on what you do. You have a job that I don't envy any of you, as I know how difficult it is trying to, you know, manage a large city. And you have I guess four of the largest -- five of the largest, I guess, cities not counting New York City.

And Mr. Mayor Spano, I want to congratulate you on everything you've done. You've really turned the city around. You had mentioned something in your testimony about former administrations that disavowed themselves of the children of the City of Yonkers, saying "They're not my children, they're their children. Let the state take care of them." And you flipped that around wonderfully, and that is changing. And everything is moving in the right direction, and I can see it now.

I do have a question, though, on charter schools. I've asked this question of different groups; I keep getting different answers. You all have charter schools in your cities, I imagine. And you only have one or -- you have two? Just one. Okay. Mount Vernon has two now, and it was really killing them.

Anyway, when a parent puts their child in a charter school and the charter school chooses not to educate that child, when the child originally goes, the district -- you -- pay the charter school whatever the tuition is, and then a month and a half later they say, This is a hard-to-teach child, it's a handicap -- whatever it is, we all know they cherry-pick -- and they send the child back, do they send the money back with that child or do they keep the money and send you back the kid?

You can start wherever -- this is all of you --

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:I've heard this question before, so I kind of like cheated. We ask -- I'm sorry, what we do is we stop paying for that child. So they get incremental payments. If that child's no longer there, they don't get the money. And then the state does not reimburse us.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:You don't pay the entire amount up front. And I think some say yes, they do --

(Overtalk.)

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:Right. Again, we don't get reimbursed -- what I am saying, we don't get reimbursed either. So we don't get reimbursed from New York State, we stop paying the charter.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:And is that true for all of you?

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:Well, I'm not sure in terms of Rochester. I spent -- I got all my gray hair from spending time on the school board years ago, but I'm not sure if -- how it works with --

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:But is the Rochester School District a dependent district?

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:Independent district.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:It's independent?

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:Independent.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:You have a separate school tax?

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:What was that?

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:You have a separate school tax, you're not part of the Big 5 where the city pays all of the bills and --

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:Oh, yeah, we send $119.1 million to the school district every year.

But in terms of charters taking money back and getting the dollars back from charters if a kid leaves a charter school to then go back to a district school, I'm not sure about the mechanism in terms of taking those dollars back or how that stops.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Okay.

BUFFALO MAYOR SCANLON:In Buffalo I'm not certain how that plays out either. Again, if a child goes for a short period of time and then returns to the Buffalo Public Schools, I'm not sure if that money -- if we're paying up front or clawed back or what that is. If it's similar to Yonkers where they're paying incrementally, I'm not certain about it.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:So you don't know whether that goes back either.

BUFFALO MAYOR SCANLON:I do not.

SYRACUSE MAYOR WALSH:I'll say in Syracuse what you had indicated is what the Syracuse City School District suggests is the case in Syracuse, is at least for that school year, that money is not -- that funding is not recaptured.

I don't know the specific mechanisms, but that is absolutely a concern that they consistently raise at the Syracuse City School District.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Okay. And Mayor Sheehan, I know you have an independent school district --

ALBANY MAYOR SHEEHAN:We have an independent school district.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:-- so you wouldn't be in charge of that.

ALBANY MAYOR SHEEHAN:No. I mean, I have heard that as well, and I know that there -- you know, there are issues with respect to the timing of those payments within the school district. But I can't give you the specifics. I can certainly get that from our school superintendent, though.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Okay. And since we're on the subject of schools, my colleague Senator Krueger asked you all about the effects of that's happening in Washington, D.C., and none of you mentioned that the -- today, just today, the president did an executive order to shut down the education department, which means that there could be no money coming for education. I don't know how this is going to work, but crazy things are happening.

But if the education goes down, I think the whole state's going to collapse. Because not only do the cities depend on money from the feds, but so does the state.

And, you know, block grant money, that's really small potatoes to your overall budget. But I think so much else goes into every community from the federal government, whether you see it directly or not, whether it's Medicaid or Medicare or road repairs, education, money that goes to the police department for equipment -- there's all kinds of things that I think we're going to be adversely affected with.

And I don't know how we get out of it. I think, you know, the entire country can fold up under this, so ...

But anyway, I don't want to start rambling because I'll start talking politics and there will be somebody --

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:If I might add, Assemblyman --

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:-- throw something at me.

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:If I might add, you know, so it was -- you know, there's going to be tariffs on China and Canada and Mexico where there were no tariffs. And then there's going to be cuts to our federal aid and then there were no cuts.

So where we end up is, you know -- I could lose -- I think we could all lose sleep every single night on this thing. So I think for our -- for my constituency, I try to keep the anxiety down by not showing too much anxiety, even though inside it's kind of tough, and try to -- and then advocate as much as we can. As soon as I knew those federal cuts were coming, I made a list available to my congressional delegation and said, This is how it's going to affect us and how it's going to affect us in a big way. And I got to -- I was making sure that we were going to get to every one of those groups so that they could advocate on our behalf. Then it was pulled.

But we have to continue to do I think in order for us to see our way through this time --

ROCHESTER MAYOR EVANS:And with education, one of the big concerns is Title I I mean, this Title I dollars comes from the federal government to some of the most needy school districts. So if you blew up the Education Department, the effect on particularly high-needs districts like Rochester and other ones around the state, you know, I don't know how you would -- I mean, a lot of -- most of the funds come from the state. But for programs like Title I, school meals -- I mean, how would you make that up? Would it go somewhere else?

So I think --

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:It would be next to impossible to make up, I think. I think the management style is to throw everything against the wall and see what sticks.

YONKERS MAYOR SPANO:Chair, we could never possibly make it up. It's just -- it's not there. We couldn't raise taxes to make it up. It's just not there.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:I think we can confiscate our federal income taxes and send them to the state and make us --

(Laughter.)

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:I got accused of treason when I said that. I'm just letting you know. Be careful.

(Laughter.)

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Okay. Well, as we're hanging together here, we'll hang together for treason, okay?

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Fair enough.

(Laughter.)

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Anyway, I thank you all.

Again, that concludes this section of the hearing, and I will call up Panel B. As everyone has been admonished, if you want to speak to any of these mayors, please do so outside while the new panel is taking their seats.

Thank you very much.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you very much.

(Off the record.)

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Yeah. Thank you.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. This is Panel B of our legislative hearing.

For the media, could you just all state your name and title before you start your testimony? The clock won't start until you finish doing that. Start at the left or the right.

EXEC. DPY. COMPTROLLER BRINDISI:I'm Francesco Brindisi, executive deputy comptroller for budget and finance.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:(Inaudible.)

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:Brad Lander, New York City Comptroller.

NYC COUNCILMAN BRANNAN:Councilman Brannan, chair of the Council's Finance Committee. I'm testifying on behalf of Speaker Adrienne Adams.

MS. EDWARDS:Tanisha Edwards, CFO and deputy chief of staff to New York City Council Speaker Adrienne Adams.

MR. LEE:Richard Lee, City Council Finance Director.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you all.

So I guess, Comptroller, you'll go first.

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:Thank you very much, Chair Pretlow, Chair Krueger, members of the Senate Finance and Assembly Ways and Means committees. It's an honor to testify before you today. I'm New York City Comptroller Brad Lander. Grateful for the opportunity to discuss the New York State Executive Budget for FY '26, and especially of course its impact on New York City.

New York City is on a path of stable, if moderate, economic growth -- although we lag behind the U.S., and most of that growth is concentrated in healthcare and social assistance. Job growth is flat elsewhere. Tourism has rebounded to levels last seen more than five years ago, with both Broadway attendance and hotel occupancy back up to pre-pandemic highs. That's the good news.

On the other hand -- and, Chair Pretlow, I really appreciate how you ended the last panel -- we face extremely serious new challenges and uncertainty stemming largely from Washington, with threats from Trump's tariffs, deportations, and especially federal freezes and cuts.

My office has been doing what we can to prepare for and respond to those challenges. We've published several reports on what's at risk. We're working with nonprofit partners who are starting to face lockouts from their federal funding sources. But we need to be doing a lot more on this.

And given that Mayor Adams is AWOL in responding to the budget threats proposed by Trump cuts and freezes, and that all of us, including the mayors on the prior panel, really face these threats at the state level, municipal level, and nonprofit service providers, I want to propose a joint city/state emergency task force to really evaluate the impacts in realtime, because if we do get locked out of our education funding, our school lunch funding, our public health funding, the risks are grave and we need a coordinated response.

Attorney General James has stepped up in an encouraging way and brought the lawsuit to make sure we would not yet see that money frozen. But we can't be reactive and on the fly, and that is where we are right now.

Back to the key issues in this year's budget. Affordability of course remains the most pressing and persistent issue for many New Yorkers. Childcare costs ballooning, rents at historic highs, and the wages of working and middle-class families just not keeping pace.

Governor Hochul's focus on these issues in the Executive Budget is positive: expanding the child tax credit, cutting taxes for the middle class, launching the paid prenatal leave initiative, the BABY benefit, expanding tuition assistance at SUNY and CUNY -- and I hope the Legislature will build on those proposals.

Still, the crushing cost of childcare remains for so many families the most serious one. While I was thrilled to see the Governor's support for putting New York on the path to universal childcare through presumptive eligibility, there is a lot more to do. So I hope the Legislature will push more ambitiously to confront the scale of the childcare crisis to increase funding toward expanding universal childcare, per the New Yorkers United for Child Care campaign.

Another critical challenge facing New York City is of course mental health and homelessness, with horrific recent incidents of violence causing attention to an underlying crisis. I support the Governor's efforts, as well as legislation by Senator Hoylman-Sigal and Assemblymember Lasher to increase flexibility to connect New Yorkers in crisis to involuntary care when necessary. But we should be clear: involuntary commitment alone will not solve this crisis. When people come out of hospitals and right back to the street, we must do better at connecting them to housing and services.

Last month I released a comprehensive plan to end street homelessness for people with serious mental illness. For too long, our city has operated really on a housing-last model, whether people are coming out of hospital or coming out of Rikers, we don't connect them to supportive housing, even when we know they need it and we know they're eligible.

One critical thing the state could do is fund the Housing Access Voucher Program. Half of those vouchers would be dedicated to getting homeless families connected to permanent housing. New York City can fund the services that wrap around. That model works 70 to 90 percent of the time.

I think it's disappointing that all the conversation is about involuntary hospitalization and none of the conversation is about the housing resources that are what are ultimately needed to help people get off the street and into stable housing and services. So I hope you guys will better balance that conversation and help New York City where we urgently need it.

Transportation and safe streets are also at the heart of making New York City a safer and more livable city. I thank the Governor and some folks like Senator Krueger who were strong allies in pushing for the congestion pricing program, which is having good success in its first month of operation. And data published by the MTA shows the program is already reducing traffic, speeding up buses, and boosting transit.

But of course there's much more to do. The MTA must show New Yorkers that it is actually spending that money -- gesundheit, Assemblymember Epstein -- that it's spending those resources effectively on signal modernization, on elevators, on platform barriers for safety, on new station gates. And of course there's work to do to fill the $35 billion in the capital plan in a way that doesn't put the burden unfairly on the taxpayers of the City of New York.

I heard some questions earlier on this, but the Legislature can help also to address the rise of e-bikes and mopeds, one of the most profound changes in New York's transportation landscape and one I hear about all the time. I support the Governor's proposal to reclassify ultra-heavy Class 3 e-bikes as mopeds, and hope also that the state will pass Senate Bill 7860 to double fines against retailers selling illegal mopeds.

I'm also a big fan of Senator Gounardes's bill to hold dangerous drivers accountable for reckless driving in new and creative ways, including the speed limiters.

And finally, at this grave moment, as I started talking about, the city and the state can and must come together to protect New Yorkers in the wake of threats that we all face together. Budget risks that seemed hypothetical just a few weeks back now appear grave. When the proposed federal freeze was rolled back, thanks in large part to the rapid legal action by our Attorney General Letitia James, with a state coalition of other attorneys general, it seemed like maybe that would be a brief reprieve.

But now it appears that control of the federal payment system has been granted to this non-agency DOGE, led by Elon Musk, and their potential risks of canceling payments, freezing payments, stalling payments that are what largely fund our schools, our public hospitals, our housing, our school lunch money proposes an equally serious or even greater risk to the budget of the state, the budget of New York City and other cities, and nonprofit human service and healthcare providers.

Yesterday we learned that Lutheran Social Services has seen their federal money frozen because one element of their programming is to provide support to immigrants.

Of course a lot of this will be rumors. We won't know what's true unless we work together to diligently collect that information and be clear on what's actually going on. And I really hope that that is what we'll do. Our office has stepped up to do that as best we can, but we could use your help there.

Oh, I missed my education section, sorry. I'll do it quickly.

We remain very grateful for the increase in Foundation Aid in recent years. At the same time, the Governor's revised Foundation Aid approach must be tailored further to make sure that schools can cover the real costs of a sound, basic education in 2025. That means increased weights for students in temporary housing, special education and English language learners, and a few other things as well.

You required by law that the comptroller's office certify -- indicate whether we can or can't certify that the city's financial plan includes sufficient funding to comply with the state class size law. And this year we sent you a letter a few weeks ago that we are unable to certify that. We estimate that the operating expense gap ranges between 168 million and 214 million next year, growing to 1.28 billion by fiscal '28. That's money that is not currently in the city's budget that is needed to comply with the class size law.

Let's see. I support the Governor's proposal also for getting cellphones out of our classrooms to address the distraction and mental health issues our students are facing. As I mentioned, I really like this idea of supporting CUNY students and SUNY students who commit to be teachers or nurses or social workers. Love to see that age down, because we have real gaps in the city, especially in teachers and social workers. And this seems like a good model.

And let's see. I have in my testimony some things about climate change, but I'm happy to do those in response to questions or talk to you about them further. Senator Krueger, I really appreciated your comments about immigrants. You know, before 1924, when our relatives came, there were no documentation requirements so of course folks were undocumented. We've documented in New York City just how critical immigrants are to the thriving economy that we have -- something like $62 billion a year of economic value. So we have a lot more to do to make sure we stand up and keep it the greatest immigrant city the world has ever known. So I urge you to support the New York for All and Access to Representation acts.

And as my time expires, I will just say one thing that boggled my mind in the mayor's testimony was to hear him again say this will be the year when he comes to you with a proposal for property tax reform. In December of 2022, Councilmember Borelli, Councilmember Riley and I went to him and he promised --

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you, Mr. Comptroller.

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:Thank you very much, Chair. I look forward to a question about property tax reform.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

NYC COUNCILMAN BRANNAN:Good afternoon, Chairs Krueger, Pretlow and Ranking Minority Member Ra and all members of the Senate Finance, Assembly Ways and Means, and Cities committees.

I'm Councilmember Justin Brannan. I'm chair of the council's Finance Committee. Thank you for providing me the opportunity to provide testimony on behalf of Speaker Adrienne Adams and the New York City Council related to Governor Kathy Hochul's Executive Budget for state fiscal year '25-'26.

I also want to thank Senate Majority Leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins and Assembly Speaker Carl Heastie.

My oral testimony today will touch upon several areas of priorities and the impact of proposals in the Executive Budget on New York City. The full written testimony of Speaker Adams has been submitted and includes more complete, detailed priorities.

Our governments share the goal to improve the lives of New Yorkers, and there are several impending challenges that require our strong partnership to confront, including the uncertainty from Washington, D.C. One continuing area of concern is the shifting share of costs between the city and state for key programs and services. Over the past few years, several state budget changes have shifted new costs onto the city. The Governor's Executive Budget is proposing to permanently extend the city's increased contribution of 80 percent of the net paratransit operating expenses of the MTA. This cost shift was scheduled to sunset this year, and its extension would cost the city $165 million annually.

The council urges the state to maintain the initial intent of this change to sunset, rather than making it permanent.

We also understand there is a $33.5 billion gap in the MTA's capital plan which must be addressed, despite the increased capital commitment from the city. We urge the key state of good repair and ADA accessibility upgrades be preserved as you seek to close this funding gap.

Additionally, the Governor is proposing to discontinue the state's ICP payments to New York City's public hospitals. This action would reduce payments to our hospital system by $56.7 million annually, which would negatively impact its ability to provide healthcare services to those who are most in need. We urge the state to reverse course and continue the state's ICP payments to our city's public hospitals.

On the issue of Medicaid, the council requests the state to reverse its recent policy that takes localities' savings from the FMAP, the Federal Medicaid Assistance Percentage, which started in 2024. These funds had previously been left with respective local governments, and New York City had the greatest portion of this funding due to its population. Each year this costs the city $343 million lost to the state.

Finally, given the significant increase in homelessness within the city and across the state, we urge the state to lift the cap on its contribution to adult shelter costs and increase its support for sheltering homeless individuals. The state contributes approximately $172 million to the city, which is less than 5 percent of the budget for the city's Department of Homeless Services, and we need greater support.

There are several other priorities for the city within the state budget which can help support our success and continued strength as a contributing economic engine of the state.

It is our government's responsibility to provide all students with access to a high-quality education. Our students are still struggling to recover from historic levels of learning loss caused by the pandemic. The Governor's proposed Executive Budget aligns with many of the city's priorities, including universal free breakfast and lunch that New York City has been implementing for years, and an expansion of early college credit opportunities for high school students. There are additional challenges required to help meet the educational needs of the city's children and families.

Governor Hochul's proposed changes to the Foundation Aid formula provide an initial start to its improvement. We share the belief that the Foundation Aid formula must be updated, but the currently proposed changes are incomplete and would result in New York City schools missing out on an additional $350 million it would have received under the current Foundation Aid formula.

We support the proposed replacement of the free and reduced-price lunch variable with a funding weight that considers a broader group of students who are economically disadvantaged.

However, we urge other changes by the Governor and the State Legislature to ensure the Foundation Aid formula is updated in a way that accurately captures the significant needs of New York City students. These include replacing the outdated unsuccessful school district model as the base of the formula, updating the regional cost index to account for cost differences in different parts of the state, adding weights for students in temporary housing and foster care, students with disabilities, English language learners, and using differentiated weights for different concentrations of poverty in communities.

Another priority for this council is supporting our city's early childhood education system, which is critical to the development of our youngest New Yorkers and the stability and future of our workforce. The prohibitive cost of childcare is impacting our local economy and forcing working families to leave our state. Early childhood education is one of the best investments we can make to support working families, our economy and the future of New York.

State education funding that flows to the city largely does not include funds for children enrolled in 3-K and pre-K programs. While the state contributes a portion of the cost of pre-K through a separate funding stream, this amount has not changed since FY 2019, and the city has been paying for 3-K almost entirely on its own since the expiration of federal stimulus funds at the end of FY '24.

The council urges the state to increase its commitment towards early childhood education to protect our city's 3-K program that working families depend on and to better support pre-K.

New York City, like the nation, is in the midst of maternal and mental health crises that require investments into solutions at a greater scale. Governor Hochul and the State Legislature have made these issues a priority, and the council wants to continue collaborating with our state partners to address the gaps in care.

New York City needs approximately 500 forensic psychiatric beds to serve those in need of services who are not currently receiving them and left in the city's jail system that is ill equipped to serve them. The de facto use of jails for New Yorkers with mental health issues is exacerbating our city's mental health crisis, and we need the state's support to expand access to mental health courts programming, mobile response teams, and other important solutions.

While significant focus has been placed on responding to challenges in the subway system -- which is necessary -- more attention is needed on the underlying problems that lead to these issues. A concerted effort by the state and city to increase access to a more holistic set of mental health programs is critical.

Finally, the issue of affordable housing remains a top priority for the health of our city. The council urges the state to fulfill its commitment to advance the work of a Mitchell-Lama action group envisioned by the council to focus on addressing developments' billions of dollars in deferred maintenance and capital improvements.

We also cannot forget about the needs of NYCHA, which has nearly $80 billion of capital repair needs. The state should work collaboratively with the city and NYCHA to unlock the over $500 million that's remaining in the state funding that's yet to be spent to address critical outstanding maintenance issues.

We know that the changes in the federal government can have an outsized negative impact on our state and city that will require increased support and stronger collaboration to protect New Yorkers, whether through affordable housing, immigrant legal services, public health or public transit.

Thank you for allowing me to testify today on behalf of the New York City Council. We look forward to continuing our work, with you as our partners, to advance a budget that supports equitably everyone across our city and state.

Thank you.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you.

Assemblyman Jones.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:Yes, thank you for being here.

I'm going to go back to an earlier question that I asked the mayor. As you know, we appropriated $2.4 billion in last year's budget to pay for -- to help with the migrant crisis in New York City. So the understanding that I got from the mayor or his staff was that that money has all been spent, but we have just not -- they have not been -- I'm a little confused there. They have not been reimbursed for it? I didn't quite get the answer on that.

And number two, I would ask about a lot of the services were contracted out, probably most, through vendors, various vendors. You being the comptroller, do you approve those vendors? And how does that process go?

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:Thank you, Assemblymember Jones.

And I actually share a lot of your frustration here, and we listened to some of that answer earlier and we've actually just tried to chart out what City Hall said we were going to spend and what we did spend, which shifted dramatically over time.

You know, I do hope the Legislature will still allocate some additional money to New York City, because we are going to spend money next year on shelter and services for asylum seekers. But I don't blame you for feeling like you don't have clear answers from City Hall about how much has actually been spent. Last year we actually wound up writing down nearly a half-billion dollars we claimed had been spent in the prior year on asylum seekers and then couldn't fully document where those services have gone.

I'll give you one example. So unfortunately, you know, we have called over and over again for that to be done through RFPs that are transparent, but instead it's almost all been done through no-bid emergency contracts -- the largest of them, a $432 million contract to a company called DocGo that had no experience providing shelter or services for asylum seekers.

We tried to block that contract when the mayor moved forward with it over our objection. We made clear we were going to audit it from the very get-go. When we put that audit forward, they could not document about 80 percent of the invoices -- you know, the costs that we had paid to the vendor.

That one we got canceled, and actually a chunk of it got transferred to the Jewish Family Services of Western New York, who are doing a much better job with outcomes and reporting.

So we're working hard to provide all that documentation, such as we can. I understand the Legislature's frustration with clarity about New York City. So give us more conditions. Require documentation. Require outcomes. Require bidding on the contracts. All of which we should be doing. But please keep providing the money because we are going to spend a lot of it next year, and getting 30 percent of it from the -- 36 percent of it from the state is an important --

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:Is it accurate to say that the money's been spent but the state hasn't reimbursed the city for that yet, all that 2.4 billion? Just asking for a friend.

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:I mean, it's a hard question to answer because -- well, Francesco?

EXEC. DPY. COMPTROLLER BRINDISI:So we heard of those numbers. It's a little complicated for us to understand where the agencies are in terms of spending. And where they are in terms of billing the state and how the reimbursement is playing out.

There are a lot of still outstanding spending that was booked as part of, you know, fiscal year '23 and '24 that, for instance, has not yet reached the H+H, as an example.

So it's something that we're -- you know, additional transparency from the mayor would really be crucial.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:Do you approve those contracts, Mr. Comptroller?

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:At the very beginning of the burst of asylum seekers --

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:I'm -- I'm --

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:No, no, no, I'm trying to give you a clear --

(Unintelligible overtalk.)

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:I'm as far away from New York City as you can get, so this is why I'm asking the question.

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:No, it's a good question. I really do share your frustration here.

So at the beginning of the burst of asylum seekers in the summer of 2022, we authorized emergency procurement because so many people were coming and we said you can suspend traditional bidding processes. And we revoked that a year later because they -- we didn't feel they were -- we felt like they were abusing it. So for that first year a lot of emergency contracts were approved that we had green-lighted.

Now, you know, we did reject that DocGo contract and we were able to get that one canceled. We have rejected several others. But in a lot of cases for shelters, for example, they'll go ahead and sign the contracts, start operating the shelter, and the contract only gets to us for registration six, eight or 10 months later after it's already in operation -- you know, when our registering it or not registering it is essentially moot.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:Okay, thank you.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Senator?

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Senator John Liu.

SENATOR LIU:Thank you, Madam Chair.

Welcome, 45.

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:Good to see you, 43.

SENATOR LIU:And 46?

(Laughter; inaudible comments.)

SENATOR LIU:I'm not going to say anything any further. But you know what, I'm going to ask the both of our illustrious officials here, our Comptroller and our Finance chair, on behalf of the Speaker.

You know, last year I thought the city took a pretty dangerous if not simply inadvisable precedent of dipping into TFA financing, which from the get-go was only supposed to be for real bad emergencies. Like the near-bankruptcy of the city in the '70s, and 9/11. But last year, you know, the city took on a significant amount of additional debt or potential debt, and now this year they want yet another $3 billion of, again, what was supposed to be a true-emergency financing source.

So my two questions are, number one, how close are we to the statutory debt ceiling based on the property tax revenues? And number two, you both testified that you are in favor of granting another $3 billion financing proposal. On what basis? Okay --

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:I did not -- we have not supported the additional $3 billion request.

SENATOR LIU:Okay. So my question to you, Comptroller Lander, is do you support the administration's -- the mayoral administration's request for an additional $3 billion financing under TFA?

And for our Finance chair, why do you support it?

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:So I'm going to turn this over -- Francesco has done the deepest dive of anyone on the city's debt capacity.

And, you know, at this time we are not supporting the additional $3 billion increase. It seems pretty clear that a deal was just made that the city would agree to put $3 billion into the MTA if a $3 billion increase in the debt capacity was limited. We have analyzed that in the future we may get close to the debt capacity limit or we may get close to the 15 percent in annual spending on debt service, neither of which we can do. But at this moment we have some room.

SENATOR LIU:Well, let's give Councilman Brannan some room.

NYC COUNCILMAN BRANNAN:We supported it last year. The 3 billion was provided because we were increasing our commitment to the MTA capital by 3 billion.

I think I'd use this opportunity to make a plug for property tax reform because I think that would certainly help. New York City's debt limit is 10 percent of the city's total market value, so reform would certainly help address our debt limit.

But I think we're in good shape now. And I don't think we -- I don't think we need it this time.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

Assembly.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you.

Assemblyman Brown.

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:Thank you, Chairman.

Thank you for being here, Comptroller. Just to springboard off of what my colleague Assemblyman Jones was asking, how was the New York City program to distribute debit cards to the migrants stopped in November 2024? What was the reason?

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:I mean, that's a decision that the mayor and the administration made. We never saw an evaluation of that program.

The idea was that it would save money, that by spending -- giving people the ability to actually control their spending, we would do less than we were spending on large contracts. We thought that was an interesting idea, but we have not seen an evaluation to know whether it worked or didn't work.

That contract also should have been bid out because it's an interesting idea, but if you bid it out you would have gotten competitive proposals. 3 ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN: So what you're saying is the comptroller's office didn't approve or pull the program back in any which way, shape or form? They didn't bring it before you, they just did it and bypassed the comptroller's office?

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:When they started that program we granted prior authorization for emergency procurement for them to do it. But when they ended it, they didn't need to come to us for approval to end it.

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:Did the Department of Investigation probe into this program that led to its shutdown?

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:I don't know.

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:Did Tim Pearson have any role in selecting this contract, to your --

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:(Shaking head.) I don't know the answer --

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:No idea, okay.

New York State continues to say that they're going to reimburse New York City $4.3 billion for New York City immigrant programs such as shelter, National Guard, legal services, so on and so forth. How much -- my colleague was asking how much has been reimbursed so far.

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:(Shaking head.) I don't know the answer to that.

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:No idea?

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:(Shaking head.)

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:You're the comptroller's office. Who else can I ask but the comptroller's office?

The reason why I bring this up is some of my esteemed colleagues -- and we're all friends, whether we agree or disagree. I take a little umbrage to the point of, well, these migrants and this issue is the same. My family -- my mother and grandmother escaped the Holocaust. They came in through Ellis Island. They did it the right way. I don't think the comparison is the same with what's happening now.

And the fact that New York City is spending monies that they don't have. And not able to know how we've been even reimbursed, I have to ask the comptroller: Why don't you know? I say that with respect to you. Why don't you know? You're the comptroller.

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:And I appreciate the question. I just think two different things are true. I mean, on the one hand the Adams administration has mismanaged many of these contracts. And the fact that they can't provide you or me clarity about what they have submitted for reimbursement and been reimbursed on is a reasonable, you know, area of frustration.

At the same time, we have spent a good deal more than 2.4 or 2.5 billion dollars on shelter and services for asylum seekers -- not nearly as effectively as we should. We haven't tracked outcomes, who are getting jobs, who are moving out of shelters into stable housing.

But I do believe providing that is a -- keeping people from sleeping on the streets to me is a commitment New York City makes. And so many of these people want to work that if we can help them get work authorization and connect to jobs, they'll be contributing to our economy. And I do think that is a wise thing to do.

But you have to do it effectively, and it's appropriate for the Legislature to say to City Hall: We're only going to reimburse you if you show us what you spent and what the outcomes were.

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:As we can see, that actually didn't happen. Most of them didn't contribute in the ways you're saying. I'm not saying they're bad people, but they obviously didn't for a number of reasons we can go into.

But you're saying you're not part of the Adams administration? I know you're voted in independently. But you're saying you're completely devoid of that administration, is that what you just mentioned?

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:I mean, the comptroller's an independently elected office. I'm a proud member of New York City government, but I am not part of the Adams administration.

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:Okay. Thank you, and thank you all for being here.

NYC COUNCILMAN BRANNAN:Thank you.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:(Mic off.)

SENATOR ROLISON:Thank you, Madam Chair.

And it is good to see you. Thanks for coming.

Mr. Comptroller -- and my colleagues from the Assembly had asked this question. There seems to be some confusion between what we may have heard earlier from the testimony of the Adams administration, from the mayor specifically, and then on the counting of the monies being spent allocated by Albany in this year's budget. There does not seem to be a dedicated funding stream like there has been in the past.

So with the confusion people become skeptical, of course. We do too. You sound like you may be also -- I'm not putting words in your mouth, of course.

So when it comes -- obviously the money seems to be cloudy on what has been spent in the city so far on the services for migrants and what would be reimbursed, who is actually tracking that. And that's a question too that we should have here at the state level. But what about like the numbers, right? We've heard that the numbers have dropped, which is a good thing. Who is tracking that?

So in other words, if you have money that's allocated but may not have been drawn down, based on the numbers that are under the care of New York City, who looks at that and who verifies those numbers to make sure that those are accurate to go against the bottom line and what the state provided?

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:So the mayor's Office of Asylum Seeker Operations is who's tracking those numbers. They give them to us on a -- on a weekly basis. We actually put them out. We're the only ones putting them out publicly in our monthly report. We are largely relying on the numbers that they give us.

They did -- there was a place where they were substantially underreporting and they -- you know, we went back and forth with them. That got corrected. We provided the correction to the public.

SENATOR ROLISON:Because I think I heard today 46,000 may have been the number that was used, you know, currently under care. Obviously well under 100,000 or whatever the number was at the peak.

But I guess it goes to how -- and you only have certain responsibilities, and I understand that, of course. How would the general public feel or be able to feel better that those are the numbers, those numbers are right, this is the amount of money that needs to be allocated and/or spent? Is there a better way, or are we just sort of stuck in your responsibilities based on your jurisdiction within that arena?

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:Well, look, I think this could actually be a very good opportunity for the Legislature. We are -- New York City in the next fiscal year is going to spend, you know, my guess is order of magnitude two and a half billion dollars on shelter and services for asylum seekers. The principle that a third of that should come from the state seems very reasonable to me, and I think it would be reasonable that it be half. But let's say a third.

But to demand more accountability before you would dispose of it -- let me know, like what numbers you would be interested to see, what outcomes you would be interested to see. Not just it got spent on shelter and food, but how many people got work authorizations, got jobs, moved -- you know, moved out of shelter. That would be great to provide the aid, but condition it.

SENATOR ROLISON:Thank you.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you.

Assemblyman Dais.

ASSEMBLYMAN DAIS:Good morning. Or afternoon, I am so sorry.

As you said in your answers here, you know, you are a separately elected official. You're the comptroller, chairman of the Finance, so please answer questions in that narrow aspect, right? Not -- you know, I say that because it's easy to say, oh, the mayor could do this. I want to know what you guys can do.

So, one, construction infrastructure I care deeply about, getting New York City where we need to go. We've been doing reviews of alternative delivery, you know, design-build. What can you do from your capacity to make sure our construction and infrastructure projects are being on time and we're doing good financial analysis of our projects?

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:This happens to be a passion of both Chair Brannan and mine. As a long-time {inaudible} I allocated a lot of money in the council, and we're frustrated with how long it took and went over budget.

I got this through legislation, created a capital projects tracking system exactly for this. That's part of what led me last year to support the alternative delivery, and I'm grateful that the Legislature provided the city with a little additional running room on progressive design-build and alternative delivery. And we plan to do some oversight to see how effectively those tools are being utilized.

I invite people to check out the city's capital projects tracker. This is an area where we can do better to save money and improve on the timeliness of city capital projects. And you are right that it is critical.

ASSEMBLYMAN DAIS:Thank you.

Chairman?

NYC COUNCILMAN BRANNAN:Assemblymember, I would say I think there's a lot of silos in our government and we could do a lot better with sharing of best practices. There's some departments, some agencies in our city that do a great job at this stuff, and some that don't. And why they're not speaking to each other is a mechanism of bureaucracy that we need to really shatter through.

Certainly working with DDC with design-build, I'd like to see that across the board. I'd love to see that for really more Parks Department projects, for more DOT projects. You know, if School Construction Authority can build a school, you know, in a year, then why can't everybody else? Why does it take four years to build a playground?

ASSEMBLYMAN DAIS:Agreed.

NYC COUNCILMAN BRANNAN:All these agencies are getting better. You know, I sometimes joke with my parents that I hope the playground is built by the time their kid is off to Yale. But it's -- I'm barely kidding, as these things take so long.

I think transparency and accountability help because it helps push it along. But I think there needs to be more sharing of best practices. Because some agencies are getting this right.

ASSEMBLYMAN DAIS:I apologize, because I only have 37 seconds. Another big issue in the Bronx -- outside of we have too many shelters and too much supportive housing projects -- payments towards childcare programs have been extremely delayed. Some of our nonprofits are possibly going under.

What can we do, briefly, to help expedite that?

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:I'll look forward to sending you the report we did on what could speed up procurement in New York City. We actually have our annual contracts report coming out this week. You know, our office, we have a deadline, the charter mandates that the comptroller register contracts within 30 days. We're the only one with a time limit. I have called for all the other agencies to have a time limit as well.

ASSEMBLYMAN DAIS:Thank you. Let's talk more about it.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you.

Senator?

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

Senator Roxanne Persaud.

SENATOR PERSAUD:Thank you.

Great seeing both -- all of you.

My question is to both of you, following up on what you said. What specific ideas would you both have to remove the silos and to improve transparency and collaboration across agencies? How do you improve it?

NYC COUNCILMAN BRANNAN:I've been surprised; there are just some agencies that are doing things better than others. And it's perplexing that city government's been around for a little while now and we haven't been able to all get in a room and figure this out.

I think we're getting better. I think, you know, when it comes to even what the Assemblymember mentioned with nonprofit payments, there are some agencies that, you know, nonprofits get paid on time. And there's others that it just -- these guys wait forever.

We would let you know -- and the council has implemented a task force, you know, to work with our early childhood providers to figure out -- you know, to get everybody in a room and figure out what's working, what's not working. I think we need to do more of that.

But ultimately we need a dance partner across the hall at City Hall. Right? Again, going back to payments delayed, you know, when the mayor was first elected he cleared out -- working with the comptroller's office, they cleared out like five, $6 billion of payments right away. It's clear that that can be done. The comptroller's office does it. But the cursor is blinking on the mayor's side, and there needs to be -- we have too much government ADD, where they focus on it for 10 minutes and then they go on to something else. You have to stay focused on that. Because if you can do it right once --

SENATOR PERSAUD:If I could just cut you a second, because I want to get the comptroller's answer.

NYC COUNCILMAN BRANNAN:Yeah, I'm sorry.

SENATOR PERSAUD:Because I want you to give me a specific way that you would change that.

You know, we know that there's lots of bureaucracy. How do we break it down, and what specifically would you implement to change it, the way it's currently being done? Both of you.

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:Yeah, I mean, I'll give you one example. And it goes to this issue of street homelessness for people with serious mental illness.

We did an audit of the city's intensive mobile treatment program, and what we found was they stopped tracking recidivism because Department of Correction wouldn't give Department of Health and Mental Hygiene the numbers. Like when we say people are falling through the cracks, this was like literally.

And, you know, what it will take is City Hall saying, We have a shared goal here, we want a by-name list of the --

SENATOR PERSAUD:So you would create a system to integrate all of their information so they are sharing everything --

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:An outcomes-based system. The goal in this case is to get people off the street and into stable housing and services, reduce recidivism, increase public safety, and not keep people in all their silos, knowing how many days they had a person in this or that program.

NYC COUNCILMAN BRANNAN:I think that's right. I think it goes back to sharing of best practices. But legislating it or making -- you know, more than just task force, right? It's got to be done across the board.

But again, it needs the buy-in from the executive's side, right? And it needs that because we can only do so much on our side of City Hall, and we do. But ultimately we need buy-in from the mayor.

SENATOR PERSAUD:Okay, thank you both.

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:Thank you.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

Assembly.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Assemblywoman Jackson.

(Laughter.)

ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:Hello, Comptroller. I want to say thank you for all the audits and reports that we've been receiving via email in realtime.

How do you decide what city agencies you're going to audit? My office did have a meeting with your office, we talked about ACS, child support, different things. Some of the data was maybe six years old, things like that.

So how do you decide what order you're going to audit city agencies?

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:Great question. So the charter assigns us the responsibility to audit every city agency at least once every four years. That's really the charter mandate.

And beyond that, it's up to us where we -- so we get tips from people who say, Look at this program or this contract, we think there's waste there. Sometimes we invite people in. So I created a NYCHA resident audit committee and surveyed a thousand NYCHA residents to say, What do you want us to audit? And that led to the two most recent NYCHA audits.

We just released one at ACS where we really focused on abuse and neglect, because that seemed like the, you know, highest priority. And we welcome feedback.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:So it goes from the charter and then to what people may recommend to your office?

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:And what -- yeah, where we get tips, what people recommend, you know, what we think is important. Sometimes we'll follow up an audit that was done previously.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:So then I'll do a check-in about some other things I want to see an audit --

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:Great. We love feedback ideas. Honestly, yeah, that's how we get our best --

ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:And though I love to see you, Chair Brannan, where is our Speaker Adrienne Adams? Why is she not here?

NYC COUNCILMAN BRANNAN:She had other events back in the district that she had to go back to.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:More important than us? No. Okay.

(Laughter.)

ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:So just thinking about 3-K, how much do you think the state should invest in the city 3-K program? And Early Intervention, which is just as important.

NYC COUNCILMAN BRANNAN:So currently right now the state is not earmarking any money specifically for 3-K. Right? And since 2019, for pre-K the state has stayed flat at about $551 million a year. So it's Tin Cup Day, and we're here to ask for -- you know, we'll take whatever you can give us, basically. But we need a lot.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:Need a lot.

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:Well, let's have a statewide 3-K program. I mean, this is not New York City asking New York State for money, these are New Yorkers saying let's have 3-K provided statewide, including in New York City.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:Gotcha.

And then on the Mitchell-Lama part and this Mitchell-Lama Action Group, we already know that the Mitchell-Lamas are suffering. They need capital money. They need support. Why do we need an action group to tell us that we need money? We need it. Like what is the point of this?

NYC COUNCILMAN BRANNAN:We agree. A lot of it comes from some of the jurisdictional sort of, you know, untangling all of that between city and state.

But a lot of it too comes down to we want to keep public housing public. And I think making sure that we've got the right stakeholders in the room to figure out what's needed most is important to us. I understand, I want to just see the thing get done. I don't need another task force.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:Is there a fiscal responsibility to this group, or no?

NYC COUNCILMAN BRANNAN:No.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN JACKSON:Okay. Thank you.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Senator?

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

Senator Sanders.

SENATOR SANDERS:Thank you. Thank you. Good afternoon, all. Good afternoon. When I heard you were here, I rushed down.

As you probably know, I have been working on the issues of MWBE for one or two minutes, one or two years. And there is a role that the comptroller and the banks, that you can do. And I'm trying to find out your ideas of how are we going to increase MWBE participation. And I know that you have -- Mr. City Comptroller, you have done an amazing report. But one of the best ways of increasing participation is to use the banking system that works with them, yet neither the city nor the state does significant monies to the minority banks.

I'll stop there and see if you have any ideas on how to make it better.

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:Well, first let me just say how proud I am of what we've done with the main resource we have, which is investment managers for our pension funds.

The assets under management of the New York City pension funds to Black, Latino, Asian and women managers has grown 36 percent during my tenure, from $17 billion to $23 billion. And those managers outperform their benchmarks by 5 percent. So we are, you know, diversifying the managers in our portfolio and achieving great returns as a result. Last year we saved taxpayers $1.8 billion.

And Black asset managers are the largest portion of that, and we can get you all the details. We've really made great strides during my tenure.

Banking is harder because there was the court ruling against the city's Responsible Banking Act, which has constrained our capacities to put requirements on the places we deposit our money. You know, we would love to find opportunities to sort of support a wider array of credit unions and minority-owned banks, and hopefully we can find some ways to work together, you and I and the State Comptroller, and if we need to come to the Legislature for additional legislative flexibility.

And our annual MWBE report for city contracting is coming out in the next couple of weeks.

SENATOR SANDERS:I eagerly await it.

NYC COUNCILMAN BRANNAN:Senator, thank you for the question.

I would say the -- I think City Hall has set laudable goals for MWBEs, but I think obviously there's still a lot of challenges that these folks are facing. I'd like to see the creation of a fund to help close that wealth and -- the capital and credit gap for the MWBEs, which would be an interesting idea. But the council does not have any official position except we need to do more.

SENATOR SANDERS:Well, I'm looking forward to speaking with you more.

NYC COUNCILMAN BRANNAN:Right on. Thank you.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you.

Assemblyman Epstein.

ASSEMBLYMAN EPSTEIN:Thank you.

Thank you all for being here today.

I just want to talk more about kind of this mental health crisis we have in the city. And I know the mayor earlier said that they're doing -- I just don't feel like we're doing enough. Like why are we not putting more supportive housing beds online? What's the comptroller -- you know, from the council, what's -- why are -- where's the gap?

And then I want to talk, if we can, another minute on kind of Rikers discharging.

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:Well, I'll get to one thing that actually really connects the dots between those. Because Mayor Adams came into office with a plan for 360 outposted therapeutic beds to be at H+H facilities for people who are in DOC custody but need hospitalization, either for mental health or physical health.

And for two years they stalled that and didn't move forward on it. There was a fight between H+H and Correction and it didn't go anywhere. Finally the ones at Bellevue are underway, the first hundred, but they're -- not one single one of them is open. And the Lippman Commission recommends another 1500 of those as part of the plan --

ASSEMBLYMAN EPSTEIN:So, Brad, why are we not doing it? Why are we not doing it?

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:I mean, a failure of mayoral leadership on those 360 outposted beds. It's really as simple as that.

ASSEMBLYMAN EPSTEIN:And Justin, just on the council side, what role are you playing to make sure this happens?

NYC COUNCILMAN BRANNAN:I mean, in our budget priorities this year for the state, we support the Governor's proposal to create the 100 new forensic inpatient psychiatric beds in New York City. But we need at least 500. And that's going to be part of our -- that is -- those are part of our priorities this year.

You know, we've been pushing for a holistic approach since day one, of proven -- you know, from trauma recovery centers -- which is very important to Speaker Adams. Over the last three years we've established the first trauma recovery centers in the state. It works. So I think we need to invest in what's working.

ASSEMBLYMAN EPSTEIN:Yeah, and I also -- I mean, this Rikers example of this guy who killed two people in my district, Ramon Rivera, you know, went to Rikers, serious mental health issues. Rikers releases him just to the Bellevue men's shelter in my district. He gets no support. He goes missing, and we don't do anything about it. And we are surprised, a month later, after being released, that he kills three New Yorkers.

And that's why people are feeling unsafe. So where's our requirement to make sure there's real discharge planning from Rikers to make sure that people, when they're coming back to our community, have the support that they need without falling through the system again?

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:I mean, in this report that I mentioned, Safer for All, we look specifically at these BradH requirements. When someone with serious mental illness is at Rikers and released, we're obligated to see whether they're eligible for supportive housing, and yet we're not obligated to get them supportive housing even if they're eligible. And so it's fewer than 15 percent of people who need supportive housing that get it, and most of the rest wind up right back on the street and can in some cases become a danger to others, just like what happened in your district.

NYC COUNCILMAN BRANNAN:The council has increased discretionary funding for -- by $2 million for discharge programs. So we're doing everything we can.

ASSEMBLYMAN EPSTEIN:Right. Thank you both.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you.

Senator?

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Hi. I think we're up to me. I usually like to bat cleanup so that all the good questions have been taken already.

So both of you, thank you so much for your testimony and for your commitment to the city. I'm so glad to see you both, the City Council and the Comptroller, talking about getting it right when it comes to homeless mentally ill people who can be a danger to themselves and others.

And again, both of you highlighting we already pick people up. We take them to emergency rooms. They're let out the side door at the end of the day, and we've accomplished nothing. And that we need the beds. And tomorrow will be the mental health day, and that's going to be a lot of discussion.

I wanted to point out I really appreciate your proposal that you put out separately, Comptroller, and look forward to working with you on that.

And then the City Council, you highlighted an important different issue that's parallel. You talk about the need for forensic beds, which is not necessarily for people who are on the streets and mentally ill, but people who have actually been put in Rikers and a court has determined they are not fit to stand trial. So the state has an obligation to place them in an appropriate setting until they are fit to stand trial.

But you estimate we need 500 beds. Is that based on what you see as New York City's projected number?

NYC COUNCILMAN BRANNAN:Yes. Yes.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Because, one, that's actually sort of shocking that's so large. And two, I'm not sure that the Governor's proposal -- it talks about FTEs for more people for state psychiatric hospitals, which I'm sure they need, but I appreciate New York City is saying, We alone would need 500 of these forensic beds.

NYC COUNCILMAN BRANNAN:Correct.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Because I don't think anybody's thinking about that.

I also appreciate that the council is talking about questioning why the mayor wants to extend the REAP and the RACE tax breaks. Because for years, I haven't thought we needed it anymore. And it actually skews the economics of where businesses set up within the City of New York. I often talk about, I don't know, sort of races to the bottom between counties or states, and then we have boroughs set up to have races to the bottom.

So I know where you are. I'm just curious, Comptroller, do you also share that opinion about these tax credits, tax exemptions?

EXEC. DPY. COMPTROLLER BRINDISI:These type of tax breaks are -- in other places are called enterprise zones or something like that. They have -- research has shown they do not really generate any significant amount of economic activity.

And I do believe the City Council studied this in the past through IBO and reached a similar conclusion.

Lower Manhattan REAP is not -- is expiring, but there is the creation of this new RACE pilot program that is limited in amount and time. And, you know, these are just tax breaks that are factored into prices, eventually, and that just, you know, increase land prices typically.

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:Francesco represents the comptroller's office on several of the EDC subsidiaries and is frequently the only one to vote no on granting a break to a building or an applicant. So we have a higher bar of scrutiny for what we think we should be providing.

NYC COUNCILMAN BRANNAN:Assemblymember Bores brought to my attention the REAP renewal, and I -- we didn't even -- we never asked for that. I don't know -- the mayor obviously stuck it in there or got it put in there, but we didn't ask for that.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Okay, thank you. That's very helpful.

So it's sort of amazing because it's this late in the day and nobody seemed to bring up the potential impact on the City of New York of all the cuts we expect from the federal government on sustainability, on environmental protections, on energy costs. And even this Governor did not move forward with the cap-and-expend regulations that law requires, that I sincerely expected we would see at least 4 billion new revenue which would have to go towards these things. Which also impacts the city.

So I'm interested in both of your perspectives on where you think we're going or what's going to be happening. Because the city has an enormous sustainability set of goals, and it has to. People forget, we're like floating out there on the water. Some of us are on islands.

So what does this all mean from your perspectives?

NYC COUNCILMAN BRANNAN:I really appreciate your leadership here. I mean, to watch Los Angeles burning and then kind of just forget it and turn our attention to this federal chaos.

And, you know, the administration is likely to eliminate the Inflation Reduction Act. We actually helped with an application to the Solar for All program with NYSERDA that would be 3,000 rooftop solar panels in New York City -- create a ton of good jobs, help lower costs for low- and moderate-income homeowners, very likely to be eliminated. And there's so many things like that.

So first I share, you know, your point of view that the Governor's decision to end the -- pause the cap-and-invest program is a mistake. I'm glad for the commitment of a billion dollars over five years to climate initiatives, but that is not a replacement for cap-and-invest. I hope that you'll support the New York HEAT program to reduce energy costs, the expansion of the New York residential solar tax credit, and the TEMP Act to protect workers from extreme heat.

But cities and states are going to have to step up over the next four years and do more. So the Superfund Act is a great step forward. Our public solar proposal I think can be a model for cities around the country for what you can do without federal funding. But yeah, the climate crisis is not coming, it's already here. And, you know, what we saw in Los Angeles, what we've seen here, we just have to do more to get ready.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:And Justin, I'll expand the question for you, because the City Council had already passed its own laws about electric buildings and had targets that are even earlier than the state's laws.

With all these other changes, what does that mean from your perspective for the city being able to meet its targets?

NYC COUNCILMAN BRANNAN:I think we're -- I think part of the concern right now is that we're on our own to do a deep dive into all of this stuff, because I don't see any -- I don't see any appetite or any urgency on the mayor's side to figure out what all these cuts would mean.

The DEP alone, the Department of Environmental Protection, we'd see about a $35 million cut. But we also saw, you know, back towards the end of last year when Prospect Park was on fire and we had a November budget mod where the mayor could have put in some more money for our Parks Department, and he gave us nothing.

So it's very, very concerning and it's something that we're probably going to spend the next couple of months, as we're negotiating this budget, figuring what the impacts would be.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:And I guess just -- I don't want to take up the whole 10 minutes, but I want to applaud you for the proposal for an emergency task force to look at all these issues between the city and state. Because it's almost an endless list of things we might have to confront. And as a state legislator, frankly, I don't have my arms around all the hypotheticals that could be coming down at us. And I don't think anyone else does.

But I do think it's critical we all keep working together and actually understand and explain to the public if Washington does X, we will need to respond -- the cities, the states, the counties -- and we're going to need a model to work quickly and deftly -- deftly? That's not the right word -- to try to come up with responses. Other than my good friend Gary Pretlow's proposal we just stop sending money to Washington, and then we'll have plenty for everyone.

(Laughter.)

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:And I don't think it's a terrible idea, but he and I will be going to prison for treason, and your emergency task force will be even more important.

So I really do think -- you know, I'm never not so big -- that big on like, Oh, start another commission, start another task force. But I actually think on these topics, you know, that this is critical and that the state is coordinating with our local governments and with the biggest local government we have, our City Council and our comptroller and our mayor, so that we can come up with the best possible ideas. Because I suspect we'll all be talking about this far more frequently than once a year at budget hearings.

So I thank you very much for being here, and I think I am the last Senator. Right? Okay, so Assembly.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Assemblywoman González-Rojas.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS: Thank you so much. I always appreciate the way you say my name, Chair.

(Laughter.)

ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS: Thank you. My question is for Comptroller Lander. Thank you for all your work.

We didn't speak too much on healthcare today despite some mental health conversations, but I do want to address the fact that in 2019 Governor Cuomo reduced the amount of funds that go to New York City through the Article VI funding, which is, you know, invest in our mandatory healthcare that we're required to provide to all New Yorkers. And all the counties across the state get 36 percent of coverage, and New York City only gets 20 percent.

Can you talk about what that implication is to New York City?

I'd love to hear from you as well, Chair Brannan, on the impact on budgeting and how to address some of the gaps that we're facing in our health system.

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:Yeah, I mean, you're exactly right about how much less New York City gets and has gotten since that change during the Cuomo administration.

I don't know if we know what it would be -- 60 million annually.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS: Sixty million.

NYC COUNCILMAN BRANNAN:Assemblywoman, we agree with you. I think since 2019 we've been not getting $60 million a year for something as critical as that. So, you know, that is another -- well, I think one of our biggest concerns that we're speaking about today for the council is the cost shifts that -- the cost shifts in the past were manageable but with the increasing uncertainty from Washington, something like this is just not going to be manageable. And this is not something that we can afford to just cut.

And that's what exacerbates everything. Close to -- if you round off, 10 percent of our city's budget is from federal funding. That's a very, very scary place for us to be in. Where, you know, something like Article VI in the past, we absorbed it, now I don't know what we'd be able to -- you know, it's really scary.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS: I know. I'd certainly be advocating for more equity in this budget.

Back to Comptroller Lander, I represent NYCHA Woodside Houses. I recently had to go look at a rat situation there. I know your office issued a report on the privatization of NYCHA and the outcome of RAD. Can you talk about, in the last 30 seconds, the impact of RAD on public housing residents in New York City?

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:Yeah, so we did this audit of what eviction rates are in RAD/PACT developments and found that they're about five times traditional Section 9. Still, I mean, they're very, very low in traditional NYCHA, so five times that is still low, but significantly higher. And quite different in different RAD/PACT developments.

So we made a series of recommendations for better oversight. And I really think NYCHA residents should have a vote on the future of their homes, whether that's the trust, Section 9 or RAD/PACT, which they don't now have.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS: Okay. Thank you.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Assemblywoman Simon.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:Hi. Good afternoon. Good to see you both up here, and the rest of you as well.

I have a very quick question for you, Comptroller Lander. I know you put out this large report on homelessness and housing first. I wanted to know who was your -- who gave you expert advice on the involuntary commitment issues and psych?

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:We talked to a lot, yes. I mean, I'd love to follow up. We talked to a lot of people about that, some clinicians --

ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:Like who?

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:Hmm?

ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:Like who?

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:Well, we talked to some H+H -- I can get all the whole list for you from Celeste Hornbach, who led on the report, and Nadia {ph} herself, who is a former mental health worker.

But, you know, we talked to H+H clinicians, to some psychiatric nurse practitioners. I could get you the list of individuals as we talked about it --

ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:I'd love to see a list of who you've spoken with. Thank you.

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:Happy to do that, yeah. And good luck in your chairing on this challenging initiative this year.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:Thank you.

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:I will say the flexibility that we think is warranted, as we described in the report, is not as expansive as what, for example, the mayor has proposed. It's about some additional flexibility on who can recommend and what is looked at in making the determination.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:So just to share my concern that the use of the language like "flexibility" really minimizes the incredible deprivation of liberty that an involuntary commitment constitutes. And I'm a little concerned that everybody's become an armchair psychiatrist. So --

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:Let me be more specific, then, because I mean in the time of my testimony I just said that --

ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:I wouldn't use the word "strengthen" either. It's expanding.

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:The flexibility that I specifically believe is warranted is to allow psychiatric nurse practitioners to be one of the two clinicians that assesses whether a person should be involuntarily committed, and that there should be a requirement to look at somebody's whole history rather than just the most recent incident.

Obviously other people might mean something much more expansive by that, and I appreciate your advice to be more precise in my language.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:I'd be happy to give you much more advice later on. Thank you.

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:I look forward to it.

ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:I only have three minutes here, so okay.

(Laughter.)

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Is that it?

Well, Mr. Comptroller, I didn't want to open up a door for you, but it's something you had started earlier that I thought was -- I'm curious about. Where is New York City in relation to its maximum taxing ability?

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:In relationship to its maximum taxing ability?

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Yeah. Like -- like cities have a capacity, a taxing capacity as to how much you -- how much taxes you can raise, what percentage of total property value. My assumption is that New York City's nowhere near its maximum, but I'm asking you.

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:Well, so -- yeah, Francesco looks like he has a more precise answer to this question.

I think the challenge for us is that what the city can raise is its property tax rate, and the property tax system is so inequitable and random and erratic currently that it's not politically practical to do. And that until we have comprehensive property tax reform that would make it fair and rational, you can't appropriately adjust it. And that's why we need the mayor to come to the Legislature with a comprehensive and rational proposal for comprehensive property tax reform.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:You'll probably say you need a reval, and then classify various properties in different classes because they'll be taxed at a different rate.

You know, the city that I represent hasn't done a reval since 1890, I believe. And the theory is is that the people who are hurt are your best voters, your seniors and whatever. Because, you know, it's usually a third of the individuals, taxes go up; a third, people's taxes go down; and a third stay the same. You know, the ones that go up are usually the older residents, been in their homes the longest, and are your senior citizens who can least afford an increase. So that's what the conundrum is.

Now, I represent a block in Westchester that is part of a block in the Bronx. It's called 5th Avenue in Mount Vernon, and it's 233rd Street I think in the Bronx. And half of the block is Mount Vernon, half of the block is the Bronx. Carl has one-half, I have the other half. The taxes on Carl's half are $4,000 a year, and the taxes on my half are $14,000 a year. Same house, same block, same neighborhood, same everything, but there's a $10,000 a year difference in taxes.

I think that New York City can fix all of its problems if it did something about the extremely low taxes in some cases. But that's why I wanted to know what the capacity was, how much you had in --

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:So, I mean, I'm in a neighborhood which is significantly undertaxed. I'm in a home which is significantly undertaxed. And I've come to the Legislature before with a model for adjustment.

Of course you have to protect your seniors and people on fixed income. You can do deferral until sale or reset on sale. There are a set of ways to protect people and to achieve a more equitable system. And I'm a big supporter of it.

And Francesco, did you want to give a -- so, I mean, I agree with you that there's more -- you know, if we had an equitable system there's a lot more we could do. My neighbors and I should pay more in property taxes. We are undertaxed relative to the values of our homes. But you have to do it carefully so that you protect seniors and people on fixed incomes.

And it has to be fair. People have to understand that everyone is paying 1 percent of the value of their homes in property taxes. Which is about where we would be -- I know that 2 percent is the cap in other jurisdictions. We're, on average, a little below 1. Having everyone at 1 would be a lot fairer than where we are and would give us an opportunity over time. You know, I think even with a value-neutral readjustment we would be in a lot better place than we are now, and with something that would allow us room for growth in the future.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Great. Thank you very much. Panel, thank you.

NYC COMPTROLLER LANDER:Thank you, Chairman.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Appreciate your testimony.

We're now calling Panel C.

(Off the record.)

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Good afternoon, everyone.

For the record, could you just state your names and titles for the media? And then we'll start -- we're going to do ladies first? However you guys want to start.

MS. VAN EPPS:Good afternoon, everyone. I am Barbara Van Epps. I am the executive director of the New York State Conference of Mayors.

Chairpersons Pretlow and Krueger and other distinguished members, I just want to --

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:I just want to -- I'm sorry, I just want to do the introductions, and then you can -- just do the introductions so they'll know who to put up on the board.

MS. VAN EPPS:Oh, I'm sorry.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:And then you can start your testimony.

MS. VAN EPPS:I'm sorry.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Okay. That's okay.

MR. KOETZLE:Hi, I'm Chris Koetzle. I'm the executive director of the Association of Towns of New York State.

MR. ACQUARIO:Good afternoon. I'm Steven Acquario, the executive director of the New York State Association of Counties.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Welcome all.

Okay, go right back to --

MS. VAN EPPS:Round two.

Chairpersons Pretlow and Krueger and other distinguished members of the Senate and the Assembly, thank you for allowing me, on behalf of the 576 members, city and village members of the New York State Conference of Mayors, to express our views regarding the '25-'26 Executive Budget.

First, I have to extend my sincere gratitude on behalf of our entire membership for your willingness to provide cities and villages and the towns with our first increase in unrestricted aid in 15 years as part of the current year's state budget. I just had 200 of my members in town over the last couple of days, and they clearly believe that this has renewed their faith in the possibility of a true state-local partnership.

So we really very much appreciate that, and I think that's very important to send that message to our members.

We deeply appreciate your willingness to invest in the strength and the vitality of our local communities. But at the same time, while they were in town, I also heard from the mayors from our bigger cities to our smallest villages say that they still need more support. After 15 years of stagnant funding, 50 million, while very helpful, is simply not enough to address the short- and long-term challenges they are facing. We are hopeful that we can build upon your generosity, this momentum, and your acknowledgment that local governments really are important -- and the fact that we really want to partner with you to make this state more affordable and safe.

So we're hoping we can count on you to look at the aid formula, to look at unrestricted aid, and possibly tie it to an inflationary index so we can get dependable increases on an ongoing basis moving forward.

With respect to transportation funding, we were very pleased that the Executive Budget maintains CHIPS funding and the other ancillary transportation programs at the current-year levels. However, we also heard from our members that annual local highway infrastructure needs continue to far outpace the resources that are currently available.

Given the rising costs of labor and materials, combined with the extreme weather events we are facing here in New York State, this situation is creating a perfect storm for the deterioration of our roads, bridges and highways. Without additional support, we risk further damage to this critical infrastructure, putting both safety and effectiveness at risk.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Barbara, I just need to hold you off -- one second.

Were you told three minutes each? What were you told when you signed up to testify? You were told 10? Okay.

MS. VAN EPPS:I'm watching my time, but --

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:No, no, they gave you 10, and I was just double checking.

MS. VAN EPPS:Yes. Yes, they did.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Okay. Then please keep going, and I'm sorry for the interruption. There was a little confusion up here.

MS. VAN EPPS:While we're talking about transportation, however, I need to make a plug for the 37 cities who are part of the state's arterial maintenance program, where these cities maintain the state arterials that pass through their cities.

They are being reimbursed in 1987 rates -- which, as you can only imagine, is well below what it is costing them to do this job. A proposed inflationary adjustment from 85 cents per square yard to $2.47 would cost the state $20 million and would be a huge benefit to both the state and those cities.

With respect to water and sewer infrastructure, you have heard me talk about this before. Something that NYCOM has been focusing on for several years is the SWAP program, or what we refer to as CHIPS for water and sewer. While we certainly support the Clean Water Infrastructure Act and the money that the state has allocated, including the 500 million that the Governor added this year, we hear time and time again from our members that accessing this funding is difficult and also sometimes expensive.

And it's not available for the upgrades or preventative maintenance that they need for day-to-day operations, it's more available to those large-scale capital programs. This is why we have long supported establishing an annual funding stream that can be used by all cities and villages to supplement both their water and sewer infrastructure with preventative maintenance and the undertaking of smaller capital projects where they don't need that significant grant money.

Let me be clear, we are not suggesting that you do away with the grants. What we want is to use the backlog from that grant money that has not yet gone out the door to supplement the grants, and this shift in resources would help ensure that large-scale capital projects continue to be funded but the day-to-day operational needs are also met.

In terms of emergency medical services, this is another area our members are very concerned about. This crisis, which is statewide, has been exacerbated by a shortage of personnel, insufficient financial resources, and a lack of data to accurately pinpoint the areas where the greatest challenges lie or the gaps in service.

We support the Governor's program to designate EMS as an essential service. We are also open to a more regional approach to EMS. But however we go about this, whether it's regionally or otherwise, we have to have input and decision-making by all levels of local government, and we must ensure our home rule is preserved in the process.

With respect to housing, which I know you heard a lot about from the big cities today, we are happy to see that the Governor's continuing to focus on an approach that focuses on the carrots instead of the sticks, with things like state funding infrastructure, the expansion of housing tax credits, the revolving loan fund, all things that we support.

We also appreciate the fact that there's interest in providing technical assistance to those communities that want to become Pro-Housing certified. We think this is important. We support that, and we know some of our communities have had trouble with that process.

We want to also just thank the Legislature and the Governor for coming together on the short-term rental legislation that you agreed upon and will soon be effective. We think it is going to provide our members with the data they need to understand the scope of the short-term rentals and the impacts on housing.

In terms of workforce challenges, NYCOM supports the Executive Budget's proposals to amend the Civil Service Law by eliminating mandatory maximum age limits for police officers in cities, villages, towns and counties. However, this is one small step in addressing the broader shortage of qualified workers that municipalities across the state are facing.

More needs to be done. We've talked about this earlier today: Reforming Civil Service Law, raising the cap on earnings for public-sector employees, looking at residency requirements and things of that nature.

And finally, and I know you've heard this earlier today from all of our big-city members, we want to quickly mention the consternation among our membership about what's happening at the federal level and what's happening in D.C. When we discussed it at our meeting this was not a partisan issue, but genuine concern over the loss of federal funding and what the impacts will be on our communities and their residents.

We hope that we can count on the State Legislature to help us navigate these new directives and priorities, and we hope that we can count on you to leverage your relationships with members of Congress to convey our message, which I have to believe is the same message that you all have as well. We all have a lot to lose, and we want to partner with you to advocate for our communities and for our state.

Thank you again for the opportunity to appear in front of you today, and I look forward to any questions you might have.

MR. KOETZLE:(Mic issues.) There we go.

Thank you, thank you. Good afternoon, all. Thank you for allowing me to be here.

My name is Christopher Koetzle. I am the new executive director of the Association of Towns. I started last May, so I'm new at this, and I want to thank my colleagues for helping me get acclimated. And I appreciate all the work and leadership you've provided to me over these last couple of months.

I'm very pleased to be here to speak on the part of NYAOT. NYAOT provides training, education, advocacy, and support to 933 towns across the state representing 9.1 million New Yorkers. NYAOT does this through a variety of means: Conferences and webinars, on-the-ground engagement, insurance programs like NYMIR and the Comp Alliance, and of course through its advocacy efforts.

I want to talk about, just a moment, as my new leadership began in May of this past year, it is my dedication and commitment that we work together in partnership with the Legislature in a very vigorous way to make sure that we're protecting, defending, and helping our towns across this state. In many ways towns are very similar to what you're going to hear today from the counties and the cities and the villages, but in other ways towns are very different and unique, and I want to talk about that a little bit here today.

First, I do want to acknowledge the Executive Budget. Governor Hochul's Executive Budget -- under a difficult financial situation, I understand -- does maintain key funding issues, levels, for local governments. Barb mentioned some of these, Steve will as well -- AIM, CHIPS, clean water and other infrastructure programs were important to be maintained in the Executive Budget, and we are thankful and supportive of that.

However, there are targeted investment needs, and reforms are needed. In particular, today I would like to speak on just four issues -- there are others, but just four issues for today: Strengthening AIM funding; investing in transportation, water and sewer infrastructure; addressing the municipal workforce crisis -- and it is a crisis; and ensuring proper funding for ambulance services.

So first, on AIM, we do appreciate, as Barb talked about, the $50 million in temporary assistance being included in the Governor's budget. That is critical. But I do want to put it in context. That if we consider since 2011, and we consider inflation, local governments have lost $1.4 billion in AIM funding due to inflation.

So we would ask that, yes, maintain the 50 million, please, but increase funding for AIM and tie it to a COLA. The cost for towns does not stop because our AIM funding and our revenues stop. We're facing historic inflation like everybody else, and we need increases in our support that are tied to inflation.

I do want to call out real quick -- the formula needs to be reviewed for AIM. It unfairly hampers towns, and I'll give you one example.

The Town of Amherst has a population of 130,000 people, and it receives $660,000 in AIM, while the City of Albany, which has a population of about 100,000 people -- 30,000 less -- receives AIM at nearly $13 million. It's a tremendous disparity, and it hampers the towns terribly.

On infrastructure, I want to take a moment to talk about the importance of transportation and in particular water infrastructure. These are the backbone of the state's economy and the state's public health. CHIPS, as Barb mentioned, is an important support mechanism for our communities, and we appreciate the continued support for all the programs -- BridgeNY, Pave-NY, Pave Our Potholes, all of those.

I do want to point out the towns maintain 63 percent of the state's roads; 63 percent of the state's roads are maintained by towns. And towns spend $1.8 billion annually on transportation and related expenses, twice what towns spend on public safety.

CHIPS funding is not keeping pace with the actual cost that towns have to incur to ensure that roads are safe. An increased CHIPS and dedicated CHIPS increases with COLAs create a better long-term plan and opportunity for towns to invest in those roads.

Sewer and water infrastructure is equally as important, and we are pleased that the Governor has put $500 million for clean water infrastructure in the Executive Budget. But it's grant-based funding. And here's the thing about grant-based funding: There are winners and there are losers. And I'm going to say today -- and I believe everyone on this panel agrees -- nobody, nobody should have to compete for clean water. We need dedicated funding to make sure that every New York erhas access to clean water.

Grant programs make winners and they make losers, and some people will have access and some people will not. We need dedicated funding for that. PFOS or PFAS are certainly now a new source that towns will have to deal with and clean up out of the system that they did not place there, but they are forced to clean up. And that's going to be very expensive, and we can get into that some more.

Also with water infrastructure, affordable housing is predicated on infrastructure. Most towns don't have infrastructure. My Town of Glenville, where I was the town supervisor for 15 years, more than half our town doesn't have water and sewer. We can't put affordable housing where there's no water and there's no sewer, and so there again we need dedicated funding for that.

Workforce development, as Barb talked about, is another key challenge. We are having a hard time keeping up with wageflation in the municipal governments. We can't raise wages like the private sector can, and we are asking for help there. Barb talked about the civil service reforms. We need civil service reforms. We're asking for CDL requirements -- sorry, reimbursements for state, local CDL drivers. We're asking to tinker a little bit with the tax cap to exclude wage increases so municipal governments can equal private-sector wages without breaking the tax cap, and removing the salary cap for retirees reentering the public workplace.

I have more, but because I'm new at this, I'm long, and I'm going to make sure I stop on my time. So I'm going to go over the ambulance service.

Barb was absolutely correct when she talked about the need for ambulance service. It's an essential need for our communities. I will just be quick on this. The mandate that the Governor has put in the budget does not provide funding, and that is very difficult for local governments, particularly towns.

Towns spent $142 million on ambulance services in 2023, an 18 percent increase in just five years. The taxpayer can't afford that, and it will hit the tax cap hard in these towns that will be forced to then provide these services. So we need to find access -- or support for that.

I'm going to close with suggesting a few things that are critically important to my members and to our association.

If we all want affordable housing in the State of New York, then we need to make state investments in infrastructure, no question about it.

If we all want to make New York more affordable for all New Yorkers, then we have to bring down property taxes in local government. And that's only attainable through help from the state, either in mandate relief or in more direct aid.

And if we want clean water for all New Yorkers, which I know we all do, then we must invest in our water systems. In the towns, many of them are aging, they're 60 years old, they're failing, and they need deferred maintenance.

But now, in order to increase that system so we can support all these initiatives, we need more. The Executive Budget includes positive steps, but tangible funding increases and targeted reforms are needed.

Towns are the foundation of our state. Every dollar invested in a town is invested in the State of New York. Every dollar invested in infrastructure is invested in your infrastructure. It builds on our economy. It provides better services. It makes stronger communities, and it will be a sustainable future for all New Yorkers, making it affordable for all New Yorkers.

I look forward to our work together. I appreciate you allowing me to be here this afternoon, and I'm looking forward to what's next. Thank you.

MR. ACQUARIO:Thank you, Senators, Chair Krueger, Chair Pretlow, to the chairs of the Local Government Committee, Assemblymember Jones, Assemblymember Monica Martinez, thank you for giving us the opportunity to be with you here today. I'm Steven Acquario, the executive director of the Association of Counties.

And we can't do our job without you. We partner with our Governor on the preparation of an Executive Budget, but it is ultimately you who must approve what's before you. And we just can't do the things that you want us to do, your programs, without your support. The counties deliver pretty much all your programs. All federal health and all human service programs are delivered through the counties. So all the great ideas that you come up with, you want to serve the people, they ultimately run through the counties.

So giving us an opportunity to address you is very important. The fact that you listen to us during these forums is very much appreciated, and we thank you for that.

Total state spending. We've submitted testimony, I'll just give some quick talking points here. Total state spending on behalf of the counties through the various local aid programs is expected to be around 8.2 billion in this year's fiscal budget. This includes nearly 4 billion for the state takeover of the local Medicaid growth, one of the most important state policies you ever adopted.

The Medicaid local cost cap is the single most important element for counties in controlling, as Chris mentioned, property tax increases at the local level. And maintaining this cap is essential to the affordability fight that we're all trying to win on behalf of New Yorkers. To this point, we are very pleased that there are no major cost shifts from the Governor, from the state in this budget, or any new spending mandates for the expansion of existing or newly created state programs.

While the '26 Executive Budget did not include another round of 50 million in funding for the County Infrastructure Fund, the infrastructure grant program that was dedicated towards housing and infrastructure that was established by the Governor last year and approved by you, we have been assured by the Budget Director that that 50 million will be restored in coming amendments to the budget.

On this note, we ask that you consider doubling that county infrastructure program to 100 million. Just like the towns, cities, and villages with the importance of AIM, so too is the country infrastructure program. It's among our highest priorities, and doubling this allocation and raising the maximum award from 1 million to 2 million per grant under this new $100 million level will be most appreciated.

Funds under this program are targeted towards critical local infrastructure projects, with priority placed on housing development, infrastructure, water, sewer, land, towards new housing projects. Projects that create at least 10 units of housing are awarded the maximum grant allowed.

Finally, we urge you to reduce the local match requirement from 50 percent to 25 percent to ensure that all counties, rural and urban, can take advantage of available funding.

With respect to aging, a very important program advanced by the Governor for our seniors, it's been a long time in the making. Finally we've got -- we've advocated for an increase of $45 million to address our aging service waitlists. That is before you. We strongly support that and thank our Governor and thank you in advance.

As I believe Barbara and Chris mentioned, civil service reform is very important to us. Raising the public-sector retiree earnings. In our testimony on page 6 and page 7, we can't find folks to do certain jobs in our counties. Whether it's a public defender, an assistant prosecutor, a child welfare examiner, a public health nurse, it is very difficult to recruit now mental health professionals.

So we have listed a number of provisions in State Civil Service Law for your consideration, amending the Public Officers Law to allow for home-rule authority to set employee residence requirements, expanding the acceptable zone of band scoring of civil service exams, increasing from a list of three to a list of five, and so on. We ask for some flexibility in civil services.

In community colleges and higher education tuition assistance, the Executive Budget provides a funding floor for community colleges at 100 percent of prior-year funding. We strongly support that. Without that funding floor, community colleges would face a 124 million, or a near 20 percent loss -- in formula aid due to the enrollment declines. Counties of New York strongly support maintaining this funding for our community colleges.

The Governor has a new program to implement the New York Opportunities Partnership. The Executive Budget includes 28.2 million for the New York Opportunity Promise Scholarship, a program that provides for the cost of tuition, fees, books for students age 25 to 55 for attending the community colleges in high-demand fields.

Counties support the funding included in the budget and appreciate that this does not shift any new financial burden onto the counties. And we look forward to working with you and the Governor to make this program a success, including identifying other areas or trades that are in high demand.

Economic development. Funding to communities impacted by the recent Department of Correctional Services and juvenile justice facility closures. The Governor includes a $200 million allocation from the Downtown Revitalization Program to be appropriated towards communities that have been impacted by closure of any New York State correctional and juvenile justice facilities. We strongly support this proposal.

With respect to a few environmental initiatives, NYSAC strongly supports the 500 million, as do the towns, cities, and villages, for the Clean Water Infrastructure Program. We've asked for some tweaks, and support what the others have said today.

We ask that you fund municipal recycling and organics diversion. The Executive Budget includes nearly 20 million for municipal waste reduction and recycling programs, including 2.5 for food donation and food scraps recycling. We urge you to increase capital projects funding for municipal waste reduction and recycling projects to at least $40 million.

As far as sustainability, the budget includes a $1 billion program in new capital projects for funding climate mitigation and adaptation projects. To maximize the effectiveness of state climate investments, we recommend using a portion of the funding for dedicating grant funding for local climate initiatives, including expanding the support for successful programs like the Climate Smart Communities, the Clean Energy Communities, the Municipal Zero-Emission Vehicle Rebate.

We ask that you enhance the technical assistance and training programs to build local government expertise in clean energy deployment and climate resilience. We ask that you support regional sustainability coordinators and clean energy hubs to facilitate coordination between state and local climate efforts. And we ask that you ensure local governments have a formal seat at the table in state energy planning and investment decisions.

Lastly, on transportation, 100 percent support what our colleagues and cities and villages and towns are advocating for, an increase of 250 million in the CHIPS program.

And lastly, Senator Cooney has an initiative on transit equity. That bill is sponsored in the State Senate, and we support the provisions of Senator Cooney's transit equity component.

That will conclude our testimony, and thank you again.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Thank you.

Assemblyman Jones.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:Good afternoon, everyone. Good to see you all again.

PANELISTS:Good afternoon.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:It feels as though I just saw you not too long ago. But great to have you here, and thank you for your testimony.

I have several questions, but I'm going to get right to it. This is kind of a unique one, that the Executive has -- proposes requiring all municipalities to report cybersecurity incidences to the Division of Homeland Security and Emergency Services within 72 hours, and all ransomware payments within 24 hours.

Yes or no? Are we for that or not?

MR. KOETZLE:Yes. We believe this -- at the association -- really this is one of the more important areas for local governments, and we do support that.

MS. VAN EPPS:And the same with NYCOM. We recognize that this is a critical area -- issue for our municipalities, and a lot of them just can't get their arms around it. So we're actually --

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:Okay. It kind of bounced out of me because, like, where did you report it -- like, I mean, if I was a village official, the first person I'd be on the phone with was somebody from the Division of Homeland Security or something. So I think -- okay, thank you for that.

Emergency services. The Executive Budget proposes designating emergency medical services as essential in requiring counties, cities, towns and villages to ensure services are provided within their boundaries.

MR. ACQUARIO:So -- so this one -- you want me to start his one?

MR. KOETZLE:I don't want to be the one who keeps butting in first, but --

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:I can get into the detail --

MR. KOETZLE:Yeah.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:-- on it, too, but --

MR. KOETZLE:The concerns we have on that -- I mean, obviously we know it's a critical service. It's a crisis. This is something that towns, though, would struggle with being able to afford, particularly under a tax-cap environment.

So this is what would be called a new special district. The new special district would then shatter the cap, because it's not already in the cap. And so that would be considered new spending by the state.

There's a lot of inequities in the tax cap. There's a lot of reforms that can happen in the tax cap. We can talk about that later, because your question's about this.

But we support it, but we need funding, because it is a mandate at that point.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:Yup.

MR. KOETZLE:We believe too, also -- my friend may not be appreciative of this, but it's a county service, we believe, best delivered regionally.

MR. ACQUARIO:Well, I couldn't disagree more.

(Laughter.)

MR. KOETZLE:We've agreed on a lot, but not everything.

MR. ACQUARIO:But there's one thing that -- I think you should strike the language that was advanced by the Governor. It doesn't make sense to ask 1,605 local governments to all do that. Let the local governments resolve this locally. That's home rule. And despite the towns want it to shift to the counties, it's not appropriate. Let them work it out locally and regionally at the local level, not by the state.

So thank you for that question.

MS. VAN EPPS:I agree with everything they said. I mean, we're obviously very concerned about the funding, but we recognize there are some real gaps in services throughout our communities. We are not usually embracive of things that are countywide, if you will, but in this case we are certainly open to considering doing this countywide or at least doing it on a regional basis, because we think at this point that might be the only answer.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:Okay. I think Steve already answered my next question, so I'll go on.

Housing. So the Governor puts in -- where am I? I had my spot. The Executive Budget proposes $10 million in technical assistance and 100 million in funding for municipalities that are certified as Pro-Housing Communities. I just have a couple of questions on that.

What steps are municipalities taking to encourage housing growth? Are there any barriers that municipalities are facing related to the housing growth and production in this proposal? And how can this money be -- how can it better be used in the proposal?

I guess -- we put in hundreds of millions of dollars for housing every year and what I hear from my villages and towns and counties, there's really no assistance behind it to get it to where they need it to be. So does this program help you in any way? And what are the barriers?

MR. ACQUARIO:Well, I'll just start from the county's perspective.

We of course support the Governor's push for more housing and more affordable housing, and yours as well, as the State Legislature. It's a local issue. It's more of a municipal function, from the county's perspective.

We want to bring infrastructure, we want to bring that last mile for water and sewer. And that is the contribution that the counties can generally make towards this issue. We're very supportive of whatever it is the Governor is trying to push in, you as a legislative body, and we look forward to working with you during this session. It's very important.

MR. KOETZLE:So we do support, obviously, the need for more housing. Housing is becoming unaffordable for every New Yorker. That's really becoming a crisis. And what you folks did with the short-term rental Barb touched on was very helpful in making sure that we don't have these big equity things from New York City coming in and buying up our housing stock. That was huge. So thank you so much for that.

But there are barriers for towns in particular because, as I mentioned in my testimony, towns do not have the infrastructure to support more housing. Towns would build more housing if we had the infrastructure to do so. We can't afford that on our own.

And so we have these grant programs, and as I said, some win and some lose. But the grants don't go to the town, the grant goes to the developer. It doesn't help the town at all.

And one thing about housing in towns is very often it's a lose from a revenue perspective. So you build more housing in towns, that means more services. So you have more roads to plow, you have infrastructure that goes in. And somebody pays for that infrastructure, but guess who maintains the infrastructure? The towns -- the water, the sewer. So it's more money on the local governments.

And so the other thing I just want to mention, and I'll turn it over to Barb, we have to address -- and I know it's unpopular, but we have to address this. I have people in our towns telling us that young people buying homes today, guess what, the property taxes rival -- if not more than -- what their mortgage payment is.

Now, I'm old enough to remember when property taxes were a fraction of your mortgage. A fraction. Now they are equal, if not greater. We have to find ways to provide property tax relief into the towns.

And when you think about a town, the only thing the town has to fund its operations is levy. It's all we have. We don't get sales tax by right, we don't get the hotel tax by right, we don't get the franchise revenue that cities and villages and counties get. We have one place to go on growth, and it's the levy.

And if we don't get relief there, homes will not be affordable.

MS. VAN EPPS:I'll just quickly add we are supportive of Pro-Housing Communities. And like I mentioned earlier, we are even more supportive of the technical assistance that the budget recommends providing to local governments to get them certified, especially now that so much of the grant money out there is conditioned on Pro-Housing.

We do think there can be tweaks to housing -- the expansion of the housing tax credit. It's certainly beneficial. The money for infrastructure is an absolute necessity.

But we are just very happy that she's taking more of a bottom-up approach, as opposed to the top-down, you know, that when we talked about the housing compact -- our mayors are still scarred by that. And so we are very happy with this bottom-up, voluntary approach to housing. And we think it's working.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:Okay, getting on childcare, Stephen, I don't know if we talked about this before. There's $100 million in the Executive proposal. I think there's a $25 million carveout for counties. Do you have any details on that?

MR. ACQUARIO:Well, I think that that was based off our Herkimer County childcare initiative that we brought to their attention over the summer. It worked incredibly well in the Mohawk Valley, and I think that the Governor is trying to give that more of an expansion --

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:So the counties would help assist building the infrastructure and then hand it over to either a non-for-profit --

MR. ACQUARIO:A not-for-profit, yes.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:-- childcare facility or organization?

MR. ACQUARIO:Yes.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:Okay.

MR. ACQUARIO:We do support the initiative.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:Okay. SWAP program, I'm all for, but we have to make sure it doesn't come out of other funding. Because I've heard fears from some people, from some municipalities, they're afraid that's going to take away from the funding that we already have for clean water and infrastructure and such.

So I support the concept of the program, but I think we have to be careful about not, you know, taking money, you know, from Peter for Paul.

MR. ACQUARIO:As Chris mentioned earlier, we support 100 percent what the Governor's doing with the 500 million in the water program, but it's a grant program. And the benefit of a SWAP program is more of a formula. It keeps entities from fighting amongst each other and --

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:Oh, I agree with the --

MR. ACQUARIO:So. But we agree with you a hundred percent.

ASSEMBLYMAN JONES:-- the concept, I just think we need to be cognizant of, you know, let's not rob one fund to pay for this program. I think it's all great.

I have many, many more questions, but thank you for coming to testify. And it's great to see you all, and I look forward to working with you.

MR. ACQUARIO:Thank you.

MR. KOETZLE:Same here.

MS. VAN EPPS:Thank you.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:(Mic off; inaudible.)

We're going to start with Senator Martinez, 10 minutes, ranker -- uh, chair.

SENATOR MARTINEZ:Thank you.

Good afternoon. So good to see all three of you here.

Just some clarifications and follow-up to my counterpart in the Assembly.

In terms of the EMS, when you talk about having it regional, could you expand just a little more on that and how we can assist in the process of making it a more regional process for you?

MR. KOETZLE:I'm sorry, can I ask you to repeat that? I didn't hear you.

SENATOR MARTINEZ:You want the EMS to be regionally based, correct?

MR. KOETZLE:Yeah.

SENATOR MARTINEZ:So how does that look? And what can we do to help in that manner?

MR. KOETZLE:Yeah, I mean -- for me, because I brought that word up, so I'll start. You know, I -- in terms of counties, we believe that it's a county-level service. Towns are poorly positioned to provide critical lifesaving services that way. We don't have fire departments, those are all volunteer.

And so it wouldn't make sense. It wouldn't like bolt on to anything, if that makes sense. We believe -- and don't get me in too bad a way with Steve here, but we believe counties are already providing these services in many ways -- you know, hospitals, nursing homes, county homes, county medical -- so it might make more sense.

It's also a service I think that requires a lot bigger population base to support because it's so expensive. Reimbursements are so low for, you know, whatever the care to give -- the cost to give the care is not being reimbursed. You put that on a small tax base, that's devastating. You put it on a large tax base, it's affordable. That's how we would approach this.

SENATOR MARTINEZ:Okay. Perfect.

MS. VAN EPPS:I'll just add that I think data, we need to -- we need better data about where the gaps in the service are. And I think that's something that the Governor has proposed.

I will also add that the Medicaid reimbursement, the law that you passed this year that would allow for Medicaid reimbursement for certain EMS services, is going to be very helpful once we can get our arms around that.

So I think we're absolutely making progress. We just established an EMS subcommittee among our membership, and we really are hoping we can get some great ideas out of that, because there are communities who are finding ways to address this. So we're bringing folks together to talk about this, and we look forward to working with not only the municipal associations, but all of you, to try to find some answers to this crisis.

SENATOR MARTINEZ:Please. And that would be great if you can share that data with us.

And just to follow up with the housing perspective of this, what do you see IDAs playing a role in housing and affordable housing projects?

MR. KOETZLE:You want to go first? Because I'm glad you brought IDAs up.

MS. VAN EPPS:Oh, IDAs. I didn't hear it.

MR. KOETZLE:IDAs, yes. You know, IDAs can play a role. Obviously economic development is where they're focused, but we believe -- we're not asking for towns to be at the table of an IDA. We actually support the IDA on the county level being able to negotiate their pilots and whatnot.

But when an IDA makes a decision about a town levy, the town ought to have a right and an ability to agree to that. Right now, we don't. And so what happens is, as I just talked about, our only revenue source is really the levy. And if the county IDA is giving away our levy and then we're stuck with all the infrastructure costs -- because it doesn't go to the county. The infrastructure cost is on the town. Our levy's gone, and we have -- we've just inherited new costs.

So whether it's economic development or housing, the same would be true. We want to say the town needs to have a say in -- if our money is being given away, we need to at least agree to that. Because we don't get the growth, we don't get the sales tax growth, we don't get anything else. The levy is the only thing the town has.

MR. ACQUARIO:Well, if I may, the fact of the matter is most counties are sharing sales tax with towns. And if they're not, they're doing other services.

This is an individual-by-individual- municipality issue. If the state is going to consider things such as that, such as shifting EMS to a county, it really needs to remove the mandate that we make towns, cities, and villages whole or towns and cities whole, or school districts with delinquent property taxes. That's what you should consider.

I mean, mandating one level of local government onto another level of local government is absurd to even think of that way. Let the local governments -- I was at a meeting two weeks in the Adirondacks with a whole bunch of towns and a whole bunch of counties, and I put this issue out there. Everyone just stared at me. They didn't know how to answer the question, Is this a good idea or not?

That sends a signal to me. Let the local governments work it out amongst themselves. Incentivize them. Give the counties incentives to do this if they want to. But you ask any town official around this state if they want the county to take over EMS, I bet you the vast majority of them, 95 percent of them would say absolutely no. They want their response time. They want to be able to handle the issue locally, and they are concerned.

We deal with this with municipal law enforcement. Why isn't the county sheriff patrolling the town roads? It makes -- it comes up all the time. They resist it.

So my advice to you is be very careful when you're treading into this. There are 1605 units of local government that have been established for hundreds of years. Let them work these issues out locally.

SENATOR MARTINEZ:And thank you for that. And you very well know that we believe in local control, especially coming down from Long Island. We love our home-rule messaging. So obviously that's very important for us down there.

And I had a couple of other questions, but -- well, you can ask them. But I'm going to -- well, I'm done.

(Laughter.)

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:All right. Thank you. Assembly.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Assemblyman Brown.

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:Thank you.

Welcome. I think all my questions probably could go for all of you.

But I just wanted to say to Director Epps, you have a great staff. I've been speaking to Wade for like 20-something years, and you've got John and Rebecca -- great. They always respond immediately, and I appreciate that on a village level, at the very least.

Director Koetzle -- is that how it's pronounced?

MR. KOETZLE:Ketz-lee.

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:Koetzle. I apologize.

MR. KOETZLE:Koetzle, like Nestle.

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:I've got an easy name, Brown.

(Laughter.)

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:You mentioned the disparity of AIM funding. What do you think that is? You gave two specifics, two -- one municipality had 30,000 more residents than Albany. Why do you think that is?

MR. KOETZLE:Well, it's formula-based, obviously, so it's in the formula. It's baked in.

I don't have that right here in front of me, but one of the things that we believe should happen is we need to convene a council to look at that, look at the formula, what is it -- my question to the Legislature is, what is it that is making that so unfair and so unbalanced?

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:I think we all know, but at a certain point we just have to say it for what it is, you know.

With this particular body that we have here right now, this group in front of us, we're all on the same page. So many of us come from village government and things like that, we know the answer. We have to say we have a $252 billion budget, do you think it's correct to say -- and I'm really asking you. So let's stop all the waste. We're putting it towards people who haven't contributed perhaps to our local areas, could that be an issue?

I know that's something uncomfortable. If we could go, we could be here for another 20 years having this discussion. Let's say it for what it is.

We all work hard, blue collar, my town where I grew up. Shouldn't we be allocating money to the people that work hard and put in the infrastructure? I'm in the construction business five decades. You better believe we need infrastructure. I run a little village, that's my biggest expense.

I hope and pray, you know, that the medical won't go up and everything like that every year. But, you know, paving roads, we do it in-house and it still costs a fortune.

Shouldn't we be allocating funds the way we know this -- you know, it's being hidden in the $252 billion budget?

MR. KOETZLE:Is that a question directly to me?

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:That's a question.

MR. KOETZLE:I would not be so bold as to lecture any of you folks on where you should be allocating state resources, how they should be allocated. That's all, I think, in the purview of the Legislature.

The only point that I'm making is that there's an inequity in the AIM funding formula. I would like us to convene a study on that to find out where those inequities are and why they exist and how we can fix them.

But how you allocate your resources is certainly up to you. I'll leave it to you folks, and I'm confident you can ably make those determinations yourself.

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:Thank you.

This could be for anybody. We talked a little bit about fire services and things like that. The Volunteer Fire Infrastructure and Response Equipment -- V-FIRE -- program provides only $25 million in funding statewide.

We run a little private fire department. I could spend like, you know, 500 grand on a new piece of equipment because on Long Island we need all the bells and whistles with all the chrome.

Twenty-five million dollars for the whole state. Why do you think we have that inequity for one of the most important services there is? Anybody?

MS. VAN EPPS:I mean, obviously we would love to see more money toward that, because I was told that the program -- we had a discussion just two days ago at my conference about this and how happy people were about the fact that there was another 25 million put in.

So I recognize that, you know, there's probably a much greater need there and that it was probably oversubscribed. But we're just grateful for the 25 million and know that our people are already interested in how they get their hands on that.

MR. ACQUARIO:You know, you've made some strides over the years on volunteer fire. It's very important what you're doing. So thank you for the laws that you're passing, especially with recruitment and retention.

And I think in that respect we've been advocating for both the income tax credit and the real property tax credit, not one or the other. That is a big deal. And so we would ask that you consider that as part of your deliberations.

ASSEMBLYMAN ARI BROWN:Absolutely. I have a bill on that. Let's hope they'll let me bring it to the floor.

Thank you all for being here.

MR. ACQUARIO:Thank you.

MR. KOETZLE:Thank you.

MS. VAN EPPS:Thank you.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Is that it?

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:(Mic off.)

SENATOR CHRIS RYAN:Good afternoon.

PANEL MEMBERS:Good afternoon.

SENATOR CHRIS RYAN:A question -- I probably won't use my 10, but -- Local Government Efficiency Grant Program? So I think there's a proposal for an additional 8 million in funding. I guess a couple questions, four parts to it.

Do you believe that that's adequate? So what do you find -- what is the kind of the participation -- it's not a brand-new program, but the additional funding -- is the $8 million adequate, welcome? Thoughts?

MR. KOETZLE:I can speak just as -- experience as a supervisor. For 15 years I've tried to access that program repeatedly in my town. It's difficult.

The issues -- the common theme here is the issue with the grant programs generally is that they're arduous, they're expensive, and they're time-consuming. Meaning that towns often have to -- and other governments, I'm sure -- but towns would have to hire, often, a grant writer or a grant administrator.

Administering the grant is often more arduous than writing the grant. The state has all sorts of things that you have to go through in order to access these grants. You have to use certain criteria to hire engineers and whatnot. And sometimes they have to be approved by the state, and sometimes the engineer being approved isn't the one in your region and is someone in New York City for upstate New York that they've approved.

There's all sorts of issues with grants. And so a lot of towns, I can tell you -- you have to remember, 58 percent of the towns in this state have under 15,000 people. We're talking about very small budgets, very small staffs. They can't administer this stuff.

This is why, for us, these formula programs are so important because it's easy for a town in order to get a formula -- to get the formula to get the AIM, get the CHIPS, get the -- say, the SWAP, hopefully, someday. But grants are very difficult for communities because it takes so much time.

Very often the state is very slow on reimbursement, too. A lot of the grants you have to put the money up, then you have to wait a year -- sometimes two, maybe three -- to get it back. Towns don't have that kind of money to do that. So it's very difficult.

I tried a lot to find these efficiency grants with other local governments, and very often it's hard to get people with the same priority -- say, local governments with the same priorities. For example, a town and a village trying to work together, very difficult, because they have different priorities.

SENATOR RYAN:But I don't think -- but I would hope that it wouldn't be, right? So before I was in county government, I was in town government. I was a deputy supervisor. And we did a lot of work with our village, which was literally right across the parking lot.

But I don't know if this $8 million is sufficient, but I would -- I mean, I would hope, right, and I know that we tried to make sure that municipalities cooperate. Like we made local government more efficient.

But if -- I guess if I'm hearing -- but the second question is, is that your opinion with NYSAC too? With other --

MR. ACQUARIO:Thank you, Senator. And welcome to the State Senate.

SENATOR CHRIS RYAN:Thank you.

MR. ACQUARIO:I did want to just recognize and thank Senator Mayer and Assemblyman Steven Otis for their work on EMS. And I would encourage the body to follow the work that they're both doing on EMS for all of us collectively in local government, because we've been working for years together on that.

With respect to your question, Senator, 100 percent agree with Chris. Counties, generally speaking, are not taking advantage of that program for the same reasons that Chris articulated.

I would encourage you to shift the money elsewhere to local governments.

SENATOR CHRIS RYAN:I'm sorry, say that again?

MR. ACQUARIO:I agree with what Chris said, and I would encourage you to shift the allocation to other local government programs. It's generally speaking not something that counties are using.

SENATOR CHRIS RYAN:Okay. Well, so let me ask you -- so in a follow-up to that, so I guess then I would be interested to hear how we could do that better. Because if -- obviously if it's going to be in the budget and there's money allocated for sharing of services, grant programs to make local government more effective, more efficient -- you know, if there are barriers, if there is red tape, if you have to put up the money -- say, if it's a small town or village that doesn't have the capital to put that forward to then get reimbursed two or three years later, if they want to share a piece of equipment, a dump truck, whatever you want to say.

Obviously because at the end of the day, we're here for the taxpayers. So I guess that's the question. So I'd love to hear more about that.

MR. KOETZLE:So I think we're talking two different things here. Grants obviously have generally that issue that I -- or those issues I articulated.

As far as the efficiency grants, I think the biggest -- you know, I'm just going to be honest about my experience in local government, as many of you have had.

The issue you have, more than anything, is labor. Right? The biggest problem is you have turf wars. Say, for example, let's take the Town of Glenville in Schenectady County, and the Village of Scotia, which is right inside the Town of Glenville, and we both have a hard time getting police officers today. We don't have the police officers we used to have.

So we say to the Village of Scotia: Well, why don't we at least just combine our command staff. Right? Your chief is retiring, we have a chief, we have a lieutenant, but we have an open lieutenant spot, you have a lieutenant -- let's combine at least the command staff.

That was DOA with the PBA. It just wasn't happening.

SENATOR CHRIS RYAN:Well, interestingly, so we -- let's see, '24 -- I don't know, 15 years ago on the town board we tried to merge police departments. And, you know, it just didn't happen. But I don't know -- we don't want to get -- I certainly don't want to get into a place where I'm suggesting what towns and/or villages do.

I'm not saying -- I'm just saying -- taking a step back, holistically looking and see if there's a way that we can utilize this program, if we can utilize it more efficiently, more effectively, and more often so that we can make government -- local government, town government, village government, state government, county government -- more effective, then I think we should do that. And I'm certainly open to the conversation.

MR. ACQUARIO:One suggestion, if I may, Chris, is that we had asked for the shared services program to have the ability to use a portion of the funds for administration. So perhaps a suggestion we have to you --

SENATOR RYAN:I'm asking. I'm asking.

MR. ACQUARIO:-- constructively, in this program --

SENATOR RYAN:Okay.

MR. ACQUARIO:-- and Chris is spot on. I mean, we need some administrative -- the ability to use some of the funds for administration, to help access these programs.

MR. KOETZLE:And I think, Senator, maybe an idea. I think more practical than through grants is providing direct funding or credits towards the tax cap, right? So if there's an achieved savings between the two municipalities, help with providing that credit on the tax -- lower the burden of the tax levy in those towns with direct credits, not grants through a grant program.

So I think this is a very unique and early stage idea, but I think if you're open to a conversation, we should maybe take some time and sit down and talk about how that might be able to work.

SENATOR CHRIS RYAN:I'd love to.

MS. VAN EPPS:And the only thing I will add is that they have done some tinkering with these programs over the last couple of years in terms of maximum amounts you can get and also how much you can spend on studying versus implementation, which I do think has helped.

So I do think there's room to make changes, because they've already sort of paved that road for us.

SENATOR CHRIS RYAN:I'm done. Thank you.

CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:Thank you.

Assembly.

CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:Assemblyman Ra.

ASSEMBLYMAN RA:Thank you.

Good afternoon, everybody.

So CHIPS. As you may be aware, in this Executive Budget proposal the Governor is adding money to the DOT capital plan in recognition of the fact that costs have gone up as it comes to paving roads in recent years. And I know we've talked in the past about materials. All of the changes and costs that mean that the same amount of money doesn't pave the same amount of miles as it did a year ago, two years ago, three years ago, five years ago.

So I'm wondering if you have any sense of if we were to -- because I think the Governor is kind of making our argument for us with regard to this. I mean, certainly we're advocating for increases to CHIPS. But any sense of what that number would look like if we did something comparable to -- as an increase in the CHIPS program to make sure that we're keeping up and able to pave the same number of roads?

MR. KOETZLE:Well, asking for a number -- asking for a number -- do you have any?

MR. ACQUARIO:We don't have that number with us right now.

I mean, the CHIPS program is one of the best things that you ever did. Again, it's a formula-driven program.

The counties have 85 percent of the bridges -- that's what we do -- over 20 feet long, we maintain bridges. Towns largely -- mostly have the roads, local roadways. Cities and villages, everything in between.