Monday, March 30, 2009

1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE 2 3 4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 March 30, 2009 11 3:24 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR DAVID J. VALESKY, Acting President 19 ANGELO J. APONTE, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24

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(518) 371-8910 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 3 Senate will please come to order. 4 I ask everyone present to please 5 rise and recite with me the Pledge of 6 Allegiance. 7 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 8 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Father 10 Peter G. Young, of Mother Theresa Community in 11 Albany, is here with us today to offer an 12 invocation. 13 REVEREND YOUNG: Let us pray. 14 Everliving God, we gather here in 15 this Senate chamber as members representing 16 our constituents to provide leadership in 17 these days of the final budget discussions for 18 our New York State citizens. 19 Let Your spirit enlighten our minds 20 and guide our actions, that we may be united 21 in love and bring together a fulfillment for 22 the work of government for the greater honor 23 and the glory of our citizens in this great 24 Empire State.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Amen. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Reading of the Journal. 4 The Secretary will read. 5 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 6 Sunday, March 29, the Senate met pursuant to 7 adjournment. The Journal of Saturday, 8 March 28, was read and approved. On motion, 9 Senate adjourned. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 11 Without objection, the Journal stands approved 12 as read. 13 Presentation of petitions. 14 Messages from the Assembly. 15 Messages from the Governor. 16 Reports of standing committees. 17 Reports of select committees. 18 Communications and reports from 19 state officers. 20 Motions and resolutions. 21 Senator Klein. 22 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 23 are there any substitutions at the desk? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: There

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(518) 371-8910 1 are, Senator Klein. 2 The Secretary will read the 3 substitutions. 4 THE SECRETARY: On page 10, 5 Senator C. Johnson moves to discharge, from 6 the Committee on Investigations and Government 7 Operations, Assembly Bill Number 3169 and 8 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 9 Number 2754, Third Reading Calendar 121. 10 On page 10, Senator Valesky moves 11 to discharge, from the Committee on 12 Investigations and Government Operations, 13 Assembly Bill Number 6382 and substitute it 14 for the identical Senate Bill Number 3020, 15 Third Reading Calendar 122. 16 On page 10, Senator Oppenheimer 17 moves to discharge, from the Committee on 18 Investigations and Government Operations, 19 Assembly Bill Number 2046A and substitute it 20 for the identical Senate Bill Number 3453, 21 Third Reading Calendar 125. 22 And on page 10, Senator Valesky 23 moves to discharge, from the Committee on 24 Commerce, Economic Development and Small

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(518) 371-8910 1 Business, Assembly Bill Number 2941 and 2 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 3 Number 2829, Third Reading Calendar 126. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: So 5 ordered. 6 Senator Klein. 7 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 8 there will be an immediate meeting of the 9 Finance Committee in the Majority Conference 10 Room. 11 Pending the conclusion of the 12 Finance Committee meeting, may we please stand 13 at ease. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 15 Senate Committee on Finance will meet 16 immediately in the Majority Conference Room, 17 Room 332. 18 The Senate will stand at ease 19 pending the report of the Finance Committee. 20 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 21 ease at 3:28 p.m.) 22 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened 23 at 3:43 p.m.) 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Klein. 2 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Excuse 4 me. Can we have some order, please. 5 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 6 may we return to the reports of standing 7 committees. 8 Is there a Finance Committee report 9 at the desk? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 11 Returning to the order of reports of standing 12 committees, yes, Senator Klein, there is a 13 report of the Finance Committee at the desk. 14 The Secretary will read. 15 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kruger, 16 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 17 following bill direct to third reading: 18 Senate Print 3700, by the Senate 19 Committee on Rules, an act making 20 appropriations for the support of government. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Without objection, the report is accepted and 23 the bill is ordered direct to third reading. 24 Senator Klein.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 2 can we at this time take up the reading of 3 Supplemental Calendar Number 28A. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 5 Secretary will proceed with the reading of 6 Senate Supplemental Calendar 28A. 7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 8 129, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 9 Print 3700, an act making appropriations for 10 the support of government. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator Klein. 13 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, is 14 there a message of appropriation at the desk? 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: A 16 message of appropriation has been received 17 from the Governor and is at the desk. 18 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, I 19 move to accept the message of appropriation. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: All 21 those in favor of accepting the message of 22 appropriation please indicate by saying aye. 23 (Response of "Aye.") 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

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(518) 371-8910 1 Opposed, nay. 2 (No response.) 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 4 message of appropriation is accepted. 5 The Secretary will read the last 6 section. 7 THE SECRETARY: Section 8. This 8 act shall take effect immediately. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call 10 the roll. 11 (The Secretary called the roll.) 12 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 62. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 14 bill is passed. 15 Senator Klein. 16 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 17 can we at this time take up the reading of 18 Senate Calendar Number 28. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 20 Secretary will proceed with the reading of the 21 Senate Calendar Number 28. 22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 23 80, by Senator Klein, Senate Print 1904A, an 24 act to amend the Executive Law, in relation to

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(518) 371-8910 1 maximum age. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 62. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 11 bill is passed. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 90, by Senator Stavisky, Senate Print 1736A, 14 an act to amend the -- 15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay it aside. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 17 bill is laid aside. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 127, by Senator C. Johnson, Senate Print 3641, 20 an act authorizing the State Comptroller. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read 22 the last section. 23 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 24 act shall take effect immediately.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 62. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 6 bill is passed. 7 Senator Klein, that completes the 8 noncontroversial reading of Senate Calendar 9 Number 28. 10 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 11 can we now have a reading of the controversial 12 calendar. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 14 Secretary will ring the bells. 15 Members are asked to make their way 16 to the chamber so that we can take up the one 17 bill that exists on the controversial 18 calendar. 19 The Secretary will read. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 90, by Senator Stavisky, Senate Print 1736A, 22 an act to amend the Education Law. 23 SENATOR LIBOUS: Explanation, 24 please.

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Stavisky, an explanation has been 3 requested by Senator Libous. 4 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you, 5 Mr. President. 6 This bill would prohibit appointees 7 to the SUNY and CUNY Board of Trustees from 8 being employees of the appointing authority. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator LaValle. 11 SENATOR LaVALLE: Through you, 12 Mr. President, would Senator Stavisky yield 13 for some questions? 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Senator Stavisky, do you yield? 16 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 18 sponsor yields. 19 SENATOR LaVALLE: Senator, in 20 your legislation, what do you mean by 21 "supervision"? The language says "provided 22 that no such trustee shall be an employee of 23 or under the supervision of any appointing 24 authority."

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR STAVISKY: This would 2 refer to either a civil servant or a person 3 who is exempt from civil service and works for 4 the appointing authority. 5 SENATOR LaVALLE: This would 6 include civil service individuals? 7 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. 8 SENATOR LaVALLE: The appointing 9 authority -- it says any appointing authority. 10 So -- through you, Mr. President. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator Stavisky, do you continue to yield? 13 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 15 sponsor yields. 16 SENATOR LaVALLE: Could that 17 mean, if it was a SUNY trustee, that if the 18 individual worked for the Department of Health 19 that that individual would be proscribed from 20 service? 21 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. 22 SENATOR LaVALLE: Through you, 23 Mr. President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Stavisky, do you continue to yield? 2 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 4 sponsor yields. 5 SENATOR LaVALLE: Your 6 legislation takes effect immediately; is that 7 correct? 8 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. 9 SENATOR LaVALLE: There are two 10 CUNY trustees, Trustee Marc Shaw and Trustee 11 Robles, who serve in a position that under 12 your legislation that would not allow them to 13 continue in their service, since it applies 14 immediately. Or, in the alternative, it would 15 not allow them to continue serving since there 16 is no grandfather clause here. 17 SENATOR STAVISKY: Through you, 18 Mr. President. 19 First of all, let me emphasize this 20 in no way detracts from the wonderful 21 individuals who have been appointed by the 22 Governor in the case of the SUNY trustees and 23 by the Mayor and the Governor in the case of 24 the CUNY trustees. And in fact, each of them

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(518) 371-8910 1 has contributed immeasurably to the board on 2 which they serve. 3 But having said that -- 4 SENATOR LaVALLE: They're 5 history. 6 SENATOR STAVISKY: -- Marc Shaw, 7 for whom I have immeasurable respect, 8 particularly since he's a constituent of mine, 9 was appointed by the Mayor in 2002, 10 reappointed in 2007. And members of the CUNY 11 board may only serve two terms. So it would 12 not apply to Mr. Shaw in any way, because he 13 would not be eligible for reappointment. 14 It would apply to the deputy mayor 15 appointed by the Mayor. She would not be 16 eligible, if this bill were to pass, to be 17 reappointed to that term on the CUNY board. 18 SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you, 19 Mr. President. On the bill. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 21 Senator LaValle, on the bill. 22 SENATOR LaVALLE: I know of 23 Senator Stavisky's long-held view that she 24 feels that there are conflicts. Obviously,

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(518) 371-8910 1 that's what this bill is all about, that 2 people -- to paraphrase the Senator, you can't 3 serve two masters. So that is a point of 4 view, and it is a legitimate point of view. 5 However, these are positions that 6 we need to ensure that the pool is as diverse 7 and broad as we can have it. We should not be 8 limiting the appointing authority's hands in 9 the kinds of appointments that they could 10 make. Because there have been, in the past, 11 individuals -- and by Senator Stavisky's own 12 admission, using Marc Shaw as an example -- 13 individuals who add to the deliberations 14 immeasurably. 15 And that is about as good an 16 example as we could have in considering this 17 legislation that we just shouldn't tie or 18 limit the hands of the individuals who do the 19 appointing. 20 So I recommend to my colleagues -- 21 particularly with this being immediately, and 22 to have this cover civil service individuals, 23 I think we go too far. 24 So, Senator Stavisky, I'm

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(518) 371-8910 1 constrained at this point in supporting the 2 bill in the form that it's in. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 4 you, Senator LaValle. 5 Are there any other Senators 6 wishing to be heard on the bill? 7 Senator Flanagan. 8 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Thank you, 9 Mr. President. Would Senator Stavisky yield? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 11 Senator Stavisky, do you yield? 12 SENATOR STAVISKY: Of course. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 14 sponsor yields. 15 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. President, 16 through you, I want to join the remarks of my 17 colleague Senator LaValle. I do have a couple 18 of questions for some clarity. 19 Would it be a fair assessment to 20 say that under your legislation that no state 21 employee or no city employee would be eligible 22 to serve in the capacity as a trustee? 23 SENATOR STAVISKY: Except for -- 24 the answer is yes.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Incidentally, let me -- however, 2 the legislation on line 10 or line 11 says 3 "shall be an employee or under the supervision 4 of any appointing authority." 5 And let me add that there are 6 millions of people living in New York State 7 who would be eligible to serve. It seems to 8 me that we want the largest pool possible of a 9 lay board rather than of professional 10 government employees. 11 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. President, 12 if Senator Stavisky would continue to yield. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator, do you continue to yield? 15 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 17 sponsor yields. 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: In your bill 19 memo -- and I'm looking at the version of the 20 bill memo that is prior to the amendment, so 21 it just speaks to the City University -- you 22 have here language that says "the governing of 23 the City University should be expedited 24 without political motivation."

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(518) 371-8910 1 I'm assuming you would make that 2 justification also for the SUNY system as 3 well. And if so, if that is the case, can you 4 just define what you mean by "political 5 motivation"? Because I listened to Senator 6 LaValle talk about somebody like Marc Shaw, 7 and I also listened to you laud the efforts of 8 an individual like that. 9 Where are the examples of the, 10 quote, unquote political motivation that we 11 should be worried about? 12 SENATOR STAVISKY: Well, first of 13 all, the bill was amended, as you noted, to 14 include SUNY as well as CUNY. And I believe 15 the memo, the latest version included SUNY as 16 well. 17 There were appointees of the 18 Governor. I'm not just picking on the Mayor. 19 Randy Daniels was a SUNY trustee and at the 20 same time was Secretary of State under a prior 21 administration. 22 So let me answer simply by saying 23 there's another expression that says "Whoever 24 pays the piper calls the tune." And the

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(518) 371-8910 1 question is whether that person would be 2 accountable to the SUNY trustees and the City 3 University and State University system, the 4 students, the faculty, and people who work 5 there, or whether they are accountable to 6 their appointing authority. 7 And it's going to be very 8 difficult, if you are a deputy mayor or a 9 Secretary of State, to show the kind of 10 independence and the ability not to have to 11 respond to any kind of political pressures 12 that I think is important here. 13 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Mr. President, 14 on the bill. 15 Thank you, Senator Stavisky. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 17 Senator Flanagan, on the bill. 18 SENATOR FLANAGAN: Again, I'll 19 join the remarks of my colleague Senator 20 LaValle. 21 I think we have just a fundamental 22 philosophical difference here in terms of how 23 we view things. I listened to Senator Farley 24 as I was starting to speak. He has thousands

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(518) 371-8910 1 of state employees in his district. Frankly, 2 all of them would be barred from serving in a 3 capacity like this. 4 And I view this differently, and I 5 think many of my colleagues feel the same way. 6 In essence, what we're saying is that we don't 7 have faith in the people who may potentially 8 be appointed. 9 Now, right within this chamber, 10 right within this Senate, and frankly across 11 the State of New York, there are thousands of 12 valuable, talented, dedicated employees who 13 have given their lives to public service. And 14 what we are doing by passing legislation like 15 this is saying, in essence, we don't trust 16 you. We don't trust the fact that you might 17 have independent judgment and use your acumen 18 and your experience and your talent that 19 you've demonstrated over so many years to 20 serve in this capacity. 21 I just think it's the wrong way to 22 approach it. If someone serves as a trustee 23 and is derelict in their duty, that's a 24 different story. I just think it's a bad way

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(518) 371-8910 1 to approach how we should be governing at the 2 city level and at the state level, and it 3 takes away a fundamental power and authority 4 from the Governor and the Mayor, regardless of 5 their political affiliation. And I think it 6 just undermines the integrity of the system. 7 I'm going to vote no. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 9 you, Senator Flanagan. 10 Senator Farley. 11 SENATOR FARLEY: Yeah, Senator 12 Stavisky, in all due respect, I rise in 13 opposition to this legislation. Because 14 Senators like myself -- Senator Breslin, 15 Senator McDonald -- this excludes a huge 16 amount of our constituency. 17 Also, I see this legislation, with 18 all due respect, as veto bait. I can't 19 imagine how the Governor would be pleased with 20 this. We do know that the Mayor of New York 21 is orally opposed to it. 22 So I'm going to have to vote no, 23 with all due respect. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank

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(518) 371-8910 1 you, Senator Farley. 2 Are there any other Senators who 3 wish to be heard? 4 Seeing none, debate is closed. The 5 Secretary will ring the bells. 6 Oh, I'm sorry, Senator Stavisky to 7 close. 8 SENATOR STAVISKY: Let me just 9 correct slightly something that was said. 10 There is no written memo in opposition from 11 anybody. 12 Secondly, neither SUNY nor CUNY 13 have taken a position, as far as I know. And 14 the Governor has not taken a position. There 15 is no written memo in opposition. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 17 you, Senator Stavisky. 18 The Secretary will now ring the 19 bells. 20 Members are asked to come to the 21 chamber to cast their vote. 22 The Secretary will read the last 23 section. 24 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This

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(518) 371-8910 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 SENATOR LaVALLE: Mr. President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 7 Senator LaValle, to explain his vote. 8 SENATOR LaVALLE: Yes, I rise to 9 explain my vote, thank you. 10 Just very, very briefly, I want to 11 just reinforce that that bill takes effect 12 immediately, so that people like Marc Shaw and 13 Trustee Robles are history. They're gone. 14 This takes effect immediately, proscribes they 15 can't serve on the board. 16 So I think, as both Senator 17 Flanagan and I have articulated, there is a 18 philosophical difference. But putting that 19 aside, this bill has immediate consequences 20 that I don't think we want right now. 21 I vote no. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator LaValle to be recorded in the 24 negative.

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Breslin, to explain his 2 vote. 3 SENATOR BRESLIN: Thank you, 4 Mr. President. I rise in support of the 5 legislation. 6 And I don't think anyone intends to 7 cast aspersions on Marc Shaw or any other 8 person who has been appointed who has a job 9 with a governmental agency. And I represent 10 the most government workers of any Senator in 11 this house; it isn't because of that. 12 It's because of what might seem to 13 others as an appearance of an impropriety. I 14 have spent my whole adult life trying to stay 15 away from conflicts, because I have two 16 brothers who also practice law and serve in 17 different capacities. One is a prosecutor, 18 then a judge. 19 And we have to be concerned with 20 what a third party would look at. And that 21 third party might say how can anyone operate 22 independently and still have a job that's 23 connected to the appointing authority. 24 And it's not questioning the

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(518) 371-8910 1 appointing authority's honesty or credibility 2 or integrity, and it's not questioning the 3 individual who's appointed's honesty or 4 credibility. It's really suggesting that in 5 this world, we have to be very careful of 6 appearances for impropriety. 7 And I think this is one is a 8 situation where, rightly or wrongly, there is 9 the possibility of the appearance of an 10 impropriety. And therefore I will be voting 11 in favor of this legislation. 12 Thank you, Mr. President. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Breslin will be recorded in the 15 affirmative. 16 Senator Stavisky, to explain her 17 vote. 18 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes, first of 19 all, it would not affect Mr. Shaw because he's 20 term-limited. So it would have absolutely no 21 effect. 22 Secondly, the bill takes effect 23 immediately. It doesn't take effect at the 24 last appointment, it's prospective

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(518) 371-8910 1 appointments. It says immediately, which 2 means that future appointees would be covered 3 under this legislation. 4 And secondly, I thank Senator 5 Breslin for his explanation, because that's 6 exactly the message I'm trying to send, that 7 this is a government of transparency, it's a 8 government of not just obeying the law but 9 it's also a question of appearances as well. 10 Somebody smarter than I once said 11 that the perception is sometimes more 12 important than the reality. And I hope that 13 that is the message that the various 14 prospective candidates will take, and it's 15 certainly not aimed at anybody at all. 16 Thank you. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 18 Senator Stavisky, how do you vote? 19 SENATOR STAVISKY: I think I'll 20 vote aye. 21 (Laughter.) 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Stavisky recorded in the affirmative. 24 Senator Marcellino.

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(518) 371-8910 1 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you, 2 Mr. President. 3 I rise -- I'm going to vote in 4 opposition to this bill. I think it sets a 5 bad precedent. Not only does it exclude 6 hundreds of thousands of people from 7 performing a public service which they are 8 absolutely entitled to and could legitimately 9 perform, but it sets a precedent. 10 I sat on a school board. I was a 11 teacher at the time. Should I be excluded 12 because -- I wasn't a teacher in the district, 13 but should I be excluded from serving on that 14 board because I was a teacher and might be 15 talking about interests that might affect the 16 profession that I serve? 17 This, I think, is a bad idea. 18 Should lawyers be allowed to sit in judgment 19 of other lawyers? I mean, they have 20 self-interest at hand. Should doctors be 21 allowed to sit on boards that affect medical 22 practices? They have self-interest at hand. 23 We are opening up Pandora's box. I 24 think it's a bad concept. Like a jury, we

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(518) 371-8910 1 want as many people available to serve who are 2 qualified to serve as possible. We shouldn't 3 be excluding, we should be including. This 4 bill excludes. I vote nay. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Marcellino to be recorded in the 7 negative. 8 Senator Seward, to explain his 9 vote. 10 SENATOR SEWARD: Thank you, 11 Mr. President. I rise to vote no on this 12 legislation. 13 I understand the intent of the 14 sponsor, but yet I've heard no examples of our 15 current system has been a problem for either 16 SUNY or CUNY. In fact, I've heard plenty of 17 examples of when appointees of either the 18 Mayor or the Governor on the SUNY and CUNY 19 boards who happen to be employees or 20 appointees of that Governor or Mayor have 21 actually made a great contribution to those 22 boards. So I've heard no examples of the 23 problem that we're attempting to fix here. 24 I understand the issue of

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(518) 371-8910 1 appearance of impropriety. But my question to 2 the sponsor and to my colleagues is, where do 3 you stop? Where do you stop on this? Should 4 we not allow, shall we say, political 5 contributors of either the Governor or the 6 Mayor to be then appointed to these boards? 7 How about fraternity brothers or sorority 8 sisters or college roommates or the guy next 9 door? There are all kinds of associations 10 that many qualified people would have with 11 either the Governor or the Mayor. 12 I think it's incumbent upon this 13 body, who at the end of the day, through the 14 confirmation process, if we're concerned about 15 the independence of these board members, I 16 think that that should be the subject of 17 questions during the confirmation process, to 18 query these nominees in terms of their 19 independence, get them on the record. That's 20 our job here in this Senate, rather than 21 passing some ill-advised legislation which 22 sets a bad precedent and is too far sweeping 23 in terms of eliminating too many people from 24 serving on these important boards.

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(518) 371-8910 1 I vote in the negative. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator Seward to be recorded in the negative. 4 Senator Golden, to explain his 5 vote. 6 SENATOR GOLDEN: Thank you, 7 Mr. President. 8 I too rise because I believe that 9 we should not be excluding talented people, 10 talented candidates that could serve in either 11 of these boards. Five hundred thousand people 12 will be excluded, over 500,000 people will be 13 excluded from having the opportunity of 14 bringing their expertise to these boards. 15 You know, once we go down this 16 path, what's next? The MTA? Are we going to 17 start to tinker with that board too? Are we 18 going to tinker with boards across the city 19 and the state? 20 I think we're setting the wrong 21 precedent here. And I think as well- 22 intentioned as my colleague may think this 23 legislation is, I would never want to have to 24 deny talent that can bring and improve our

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(518) 371-8910 1 institutions and bring them to a higher 2 standard here, not only here in this state but 3 in this great nation. 4 I vote no. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Golden to be recorded in the negative. 7 Senator Perkins, to explain his 8 vote. 9 SENATOR PERKINS: Thank you very 10 much, Mr. President. 11 I want to take a quick moment to 12 not only support this but to commend my 13 colleague for being proactive and prospective. 14 Proactive to the extent that this has not yet 15 arisen to become a problem, but nevertheless 16 there's a great potential for it to be a 17 problem. 18 We know in New York City, under 19 mayoral control, with some appointees to the 20 governing educational board, there were some 21 conflicts of interest that had to be 22 addressed. 23 And I think that this is a reform 24 measure that gives this body a good message to

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(518) 371-8910 1 the public in terms of trying to prevent these 2 types of conflicts of interest in which an 3 appointee is controlled by the appointer. 4 And so I think this is good for us, 5 and I want to make sure that I express my 6 appreciation to you and encourage everybody to 7 support it. 8 Thank you. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Perkins to be recorded in the 11 affirmative. 12 Senator Saland, to explain his 13 vote. 14 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 15 Mr. President. 16 Mr. President, I listened to the 17 debate, and I was particularly taken with the 18 exchange between Senator LaValle and Senator 19 Stavisky. And it made me really pore over the 20 bill two and then three times looking for 21 something in the bill that said it was 22 prospective. 23 I don't know Marc Shaw. I don't 24 believe I've ever met him. I wouldn't know

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(518) 371-8910 1 him if he was standing next to me. I've heard 2 his name. He seems to be lauded in most 3 quarters. He was by Senator Stavisky. 4 There is nothing in this bill nor 5 is there anything in this memo that uses the 6 word "prospective." It uses the word 7 "immediately." And there's nothing in this 8 bill, nor in the memo, that says that those 9 who are currently serving who may have been 10 appointed by some state entity or board or 11 individual or city entity, board or 12 individual, are being grandfathered. 13 In fact, any clear reading of this 14 bill would say absent of some kind of an 15 amendment that this is effective immediately, 16 and anybody on this board who falls into the 17 classification that the sponsor, Senator 18 Stavisky, wishes to now preclude would either 19 have to resign or would have to be terminated. 20 There's no other reading of this 21 bill, regardless of how many times you read 22 it. Whatever you do with it, whatever you 23 infer or whatever you say you want to do, 24 neither the bill nor the memo does either.

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(518) 371-8910 1 I vote in the negative. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator Saland to be recorded in the negative. 4 Senator Larkin, to explain his 5 vote. 6 SENATOR LARKIN: Thank you, 7 Mr. President. 8 I've been listening to this back 9 and forth. And Senator LaValle, who's been on 10 education for more years than many people have 11 been in this chamber. Senator Saland's been 12 on education. I heard Senator Seward on it. 13 Senator Farley. Senator John Flanagan. 14 And the more I listened to them, I 15 said, you know, this is a bad bill. And then 16 all of a sudden I thought to myself: We just 17 appointed some people to the Regents a couple 18 of weeks ago. Well, I kind of think that some 19 of them would not be eligible because of what 20 they do in private life. 21 I think if you're going to start 22 saying that all these employees in the City of 23 New York can't be considered for it, well then 24 why don't we just set this bill aside and put

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(518) 371-8910 1 a B print on it and say Board of Regents? 2 I vote no. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 4 Senator Larkin to be recorded in the negative. 5 Senator Craig Johnson, to explain 6 his vote. 7 SENATOR CRAIG JOHNSON: Thank you 8 very much, Mr. President. 9 I rise to vote in favor of this 10 important piece of legislation, important 11 piece of reform legislation. I commend my 12 colleague in government Senator Stavisky. 13 I've listened to the debate. It 14 was a good debate, and it certainly gave some 15 food for thought. 16 I certainly found one of the 17 comments of my colleagues very interesting 18 about the MTA board. I think we should do 19 everything possible to reform that MTA board. 20 I mean, I think that's a given. And I'm 21 hopeful that at the end of the day, where we 22 are on MTA, that board or that entity is going 23 to be fully reformed. 24 I listened to other colleagues who

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(518) 371-8910 1 talked about their employment and serving on 2 boards and doing other things related to that 3 employment. 4 I think there is a big difference. 5 I could imagine the comfort or the concern 6 that people would have living in a school 7 district if, for instance, somebody who is 8 employed by that school district served on 9 that school board. And I think that's what 10 we're trying to avoid here. 11 And notwithstanding the fact that 12 maybe, you know, we are going to unfortunately 13 lose some possible good additions to a SUNY or 14 CUNY board, there are millions of New Yorkers 15 out there who I think can do a great job in 16 serving on the CUNY and the SUNY boards. 17 So again, I believe this is an 18 important piece of legislation. It prevents 19 any possible problems, real or potential. And 20 I think this is a good day for the New York 21 State Senate. So I commend you, Senator 22 Stavisky, and I will be voting yes. 23 Thank you very much, Mr. President. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

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(518) 371-8910 1 Senator Craig Johnson to be recorded in the 2 affirmative. 3 Senator Liz Krueger, to explain her 4 vote. 5 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 6 I also listened to the debate, and I gave 7 serious thought to the arguments. 8 And I'm going to support my 9 colleague Toby Stavisky on this, because I 10 think she's actually raising even more 11 important issues than just this one bill: The 12 importance of our evaluating as a state the 13 governance procedures of public authorities 14 and universities and a whole series of boards 15 that we nominate people and confirm them to 16 through the Senate. 17 We know we have serious problems 18 with governance in private institutions. 19 Certainly in private financial institutions, 20 we're all aware of the problems. And I think 21 it is incumbent upon us as a legislature to 22 truly evaluate the process by which we make 23 appointments and confirmations to boards and 24 how we make the decision about who is making

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(518) 371-8910 1 decisions that affect 19 million New Yorkers. 2 I heard the concerns about being 3 prospective versus immediate. And the Senator 4 has assured me that the intention is 5 prospective. I don't think it has anything to 6 do with any named individuals. And frankly, I 7 don't think it's appropriate there were 8 individuals being named here as if this piece 9 of legislation is targeted in a specific way. 10 And so I want to thank Senator 11 Stavisky for helping us to begin to think 12 through a very complex, I think, and big 13 picture question, how are we evaluating the 14 boards, how are we going through the process 15 of determining the governance, how are we 16 making sure that we have the appropriate 17 oversight over the boards that spend the 18 taxpayers' money. 19 And I heard the concern that 20 500,000 people might not be eligible for this 21 board. Well, the great news is we have over 22 19 million New Yorkers, and we should be 23 bringing them more into the process. And this 24 is going to allow them to do that.

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(518) 371-8910 1 So thank you. I vote yes. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator Liz Krueger to be recorded in the 4 affirmative. 5 Senator Lanza, to explain his vote. 6 SENATOR LANZA: Thank you, 7 Mr. President. 8 I'm going to be voting against this 9 measure. I've listened to the discussion 10 here, and my concern is this. I understand 11 the intent. It is a very good intent. The 12 intent here, I know from the sponsor, is to 13 ensure that there's objectivity in this 14 process. And by that I'm sure she means we 15 want to remove political influence from the 16 process. 17 You know, I'm just not sure that 18 this does it. In fact, I know it doesn't, 19 because at the end of the day it still holds 20 that the appointments shall be made by the 21 Governor and the Mayor. So regardless of 22 whether or not they're under the supervision 23 of the appointing authority, they're still 24 being appointed by these political

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(518) 371-8910 1 authorities. And so nothing in this 2 legislation is going to remove the political 3 influence that we all, perhaps, seek to remove 4 here. 5 And so I am convinced by the 6 discussion which suggests that if we're not 7 going to do that, we ought not limit the field 8 here. It's very important that we have the 9 best and the brightest when it comes to SUNY 10 and CUNY. 11 And one thing stands out for me 12 with respect to narrowing the field. It would 13 seem to me that under this legislation, if you 14 were a New York City teacher, you could not be 15 a trustee because you are under -- we have 16 mayoral control in the City of New York. You 17 are certainly under the supervision of the 18 appointing authority. 19 And I don't think, if we had 20 thought this out, we would want to support 21 legislation and I can't imagine anyone here 22 supporting legislation that would exclude 23 every single New York City teacher from 24 serving as a trustee on CUNY or SUNY. That is

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(518) 371-8910 1 absurd. 2 And that is why I am voting against 3 this measure. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 5 Senator Lanza to be recorded in the negative. 6 Are there any other Senators who 7 wish to explain their vote? 8 Seeing none, the Secretary will 9 announce the results. 10 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 11 the negative on Calendar Number 90 are 12 Senators Alesi, Bonacic, DeFrancisco, Farley, 13 Flanagan, Fuschillo, Golden, Griffo, Hannon, 14 O. Johnson, Lanza, Larkin, LaValle, Leibell, 15 Libous, Little, Marcellino, Maziarz, McDonald, 16 Nozzolio, Ranzenhofer, Robach, Saland, Seward, 17 Skelos, Volker, Winner and Young. 18 Ayes, 34. Nays, 28. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 20 bill is passed. 21 Senator Klein, that completes the 22 reading of the calendar. 23 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, is 24 there any further business at the desk?

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(518) 371-8910 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: There 2 is none, Senator. 3 SENATOR KLEIN: Before we 4 adjourn, could you call on Senator Libous for 5 a brief announcement. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 7 Senator Libous. 8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, 9 Mr. President. 10 There will be an immediate 11 Republican conference in Room 315. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 13 Immediate Republican conference in Room 315. 14 Senator Klein. 15 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 16 there being no further business, I move we 17 adjourn until tomorrow at 9:30 a.m. 18 First, there will be a Finance 19 Committee meeting at 9:00 a.m., session 20 immediately following at 9:30 a.m. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: On a 22 motion by Senator Klein, the Senate stands 23 adjourned until tomorrow, Tuesday, at 24 9:30 a.m., with the Finance Committee to meet

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(518) 371-8910 1 at 9:00 a.m. 2 (Whereupon, at 4:22 p.m., the 3 Senate adjourned.) 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

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