Monday, May 17, 2010

1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE 2 3 4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD 5 6 7 8 9 ALBANY, NEW YORK 10 May 17, 2010 11 4:20 p.m. 12 13 14 REGULAR SESSION 15 16 17 18 SENATOR DIANE SAVINO, Acting President 19 ANGELO J. APONTE, Secretary 20 21 22 23 24 25

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 3 Senate will please come to order. 4 I ask everyone present to rise and 5 recite with me the Pledge of Allegiance. 6 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 7 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 8 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: In the 9 absence of clergy, may we all bow our heads in 10 a moment of silence. 11 (Whereupon, the assemblage 12 respected a moment of silence.) 13 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 14 reading of the Journal. 15 The Secretary will read. 16 THE SECRETARY: In Senate, 17 Sunday, May 16, the Senate met pursuant to 18 adjournment. The Journal of Saturday, May 15, 19 was read and approved. On motion, Senate 20 adjourned. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Without 22 objection, the Journal stands approved as 23 read. 24 Presentation of petitions. 25 Messages from the Assembly.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Messages from the Governor. 2 Reports of standing committees. 3 Reports of select committees. 4 Communications and reports from 5 state officers. 6 Motions and resolutions. 7 Senator Klein. 8 SENATOR KLEIN: Thank you, Madam 9 President. 10 On behalf of Senator Serrano, on 11 page 29 I offer the following amendments to 12 Calendar Number 514, Senate Print Number 7776, 13 and ask that said bill retain its place on 14 Third Reading Calendar. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: So 16 ordered. 17 SENATOR KLEIN: On behalf of 18 Senator Duane, on page 23 I offer the 19 following amendments to Calendar Number 418, 20 Senate Print Number 5000A, and ask that said 21 bill retain its place on Third Reading 22 Calendar. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: So 24 ordered. 25 SENATOR KLEIN: On behalf of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Senator Krueger, on page number 20 I offer the 2 following amendments to Calendar Number 365, 3 Senate Print Number 3584A, and ask that said 4 bill retain its place on Third Reading 5 Calendar. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: So 7 ordered. 8 SENATOR KLEIN: On behalf of 9 Senator Schneiderman, on page number 16 I 10 offer the following amendments to Calendar 11 Number 270, Senate Print Number 6987, and ask 12 that said bill retain its place on Third 13 Reading Calendar. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: So 15 ordered. 16 SENATOR KLEIN: On behalf of 17 Senator Foley, I move that the following bill 18 be discharged from its respective committee 19 and be recommitted with instructions to strike 20 the enacting clause: Senate Number 6361B. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: So 22 ordered. 23 SENATOR KLEIN: On behalf of 24 Senator Sampson, I move that the following 25 bills be discharged from their respective

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 committees and be recommitted with 2 instructions to strike the enacting clause: 3 Senate Numbers 63, 71, 89, 97 and 98. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: So 5 ordered. 6 SENATOR KLEIN: On behalf of 7 Senator Krueger, I wish to call up Calendar 8 Number 432, Assembly Print Number 6011. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 10 Secretary will read. 11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 12 432, by Member of the Assembly Gottfried, 13 Assembly Print Number 6011, an act to amend 14 the Uniform City Court Act and others. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 16 Klein. 17 SENATOR KLEIN: I now move to 18 reconsider the vote by which this Assembly 19 bill was substituted for Senate Print Number 20 4781 on May 4th. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 22 Secretary will call the roll on 23 reconsideration. 24 (The Secretary called the roll.) 25 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 59.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 2 Klein. 3 SENATOR KLEIN: I now move that 4 the Assembly bill, Print Number 6011, be 5 recommitted to the Committee on Judiciary, and 6 my Senate bill be restored to the order of 7 Third Reading Calendar. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: So 9 ordered. 10 SENATOR KLEIN: I now offer the 11 following amendments. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: 13 Amendments received. 14 SENATOR KLEIN: Madam President, 15 can you please recognize Senator Libous. He 16 has some floor motions as well. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 18 Libous. 19 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Madam 20 President. 21 On behalf of Senator Leibell, Madam 22 President, on page 26 I offer the following 23 amendments to Calendar Number 468, Senate 24 Print 7086A, and I ask that said bill retain 25 its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: So 2 ordered, Senator Libous. 3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Madam 4 President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 6 Klein. 7 SENATOR KLEIN: Madam President, 8 can you please recognize Senator Stachowski. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 10 Stachowski. 11 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes, Madam 12 President. Today I just wanted to point out 13 that we're joined by two guests, Rob Ray and 14 Larry Playfair, both of whom played for the 15 Sabres, doing some good work on behalf of the 16 some of the fundraising that the Sabres do, 17 and they'll be available later to tell people 18 about it. 19 But I just wanted to recognize the 20 fact that they've joined us in the chamber, 21 and we'd just like to welcome them here to 22 Albany. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Thank 24 you, Senator Stachowski. 25 (Applause.)

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 2 Klein. 3 SENATOR KLEIN: Madam President, 4 I believe there are substitutions at the desk. 5 I ask that we make the substitutions at this 6 time. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 8 Secretary will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: On page 29, 10 Senator Hassell-Thompson moves to discharge, 11 from the Committee on Crime Victims, Crime and 12 Correction, Assembly Bill Number 3814 and 13 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 14 Number 4689, Third Reading Calendar 509. 15 And on page 29, Senator Espada 16 moves to discharge, from the Committee on 17 Housing, Construction and Community 18 Development, Assembly Bill Number 2364 and 19 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill 20 Number 7127, Third Reading Calendar 512. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: 22 Substitutions ordered. 23 Senator Klein. 24 SENATOR KLEIN: Madam President, 25 I believe there's a resolution at the desk by

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Senator Serrano. I ask that the title of the 2 resolution be read and move for its immediate 3 adoption. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 5 Klein, has this resolution been deemed 6 privileged and submitted by the office of the 7 Temporary President? 8 SENATOR KLEIN: Yes, it has, 9 Madam President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 11 Secretary will read. 12 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 13 Serrano, legislative resolution honoring Lance 14 Orton upon his heroic actions that played a 15 crucial role in saving the lives of many 16 New Yorkers and visitors to our state on 17 May 1, 2010. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 19 Serrano. 20 SENATOR SERRANO: Thank you, 21 Madam President. 22 It's a great honor to be in the 23 presence of a great American hero. 24 On May 1st of this year, there was 25 an attempt, a terrorist attempt in Times

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Square in New York City -- an attempt that, 2 had it not been thwarted, would have caused 3 the loss of large numbers of people, there 4 would have been tremendous injuries and damage 5 and great loss of life. 6 But thanks to the keen eye and the 7 courage of Lance Orton, who's here with us 8 today, a disaster was avoided. Lance reached 9 out to the local police officer, and the rest 10 is history, as we all know. The police came 11 in, they brought in the FBI, and it was 12 determined that there was a large explosive 13 device in a car situated right next to Lance 14 Orton. 15 But it should come as no surprise 16 to people who know Lance that he would do such 17 a heroic act. Being a Vietnam veteran, being 18 a leader in the community, being someone who 19 is known and has many, many friends, Lance is 20 trained to see things that are out of whack. 21 And he said something and saved many lives. 22 His father, who's with us today, 23 Horace Orton, is also a leader in the 24 community in the 28th Senate District. And I 25 see that the apple does not fall far from the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 tree. You have always been a very strong 2 pillar, and you've raised your son in such a 3 way that not only is he an upstanding citizen 4 and obviously a good son to you, but also 5 someone who saved many, many lives. 6 Since 9/11, we have been at a 7 heightened sense of alert. This recent act 8 shows that we are not safe, that New York 9 continues to be a target, that Times Square is 10 very much a place that terrorists are looking 11 to attack. 12 But it's good to know, it's good 13 for this message to go out -- to tourists, to 14 people around the country and around the 15 world -- that New York is filled with people 16 like Lance who are willing to take a stand, 17 who are willing to be courageous and step 18 forward when they see something. And folks 19 should know that their safety is ensured 20 because of the heroic acts of this person as 21 well as the Police Department. 22 And I think it's just a tremendous 23 honor and privilege that here in the State 24 Senate we have Lance as our guest and he has 25 graced us with his presence.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 A little bit earlier this 2 afternoon, my Assembly member, Vanessa Gibson, 3 honored Lance in the Assembly chamber with 4 this same resolution. And Assemblywoman 5 Gibson as a leader in our community -- and she 6 is my Assembly member -- also recognizes how 7 important this is, not only for Lance and his 8 family, but for sending a very strong message 9 that we will not be deterred by terrorism and 10 that we will do what we have to do to keep our 11 communities safe and our streets safe. 12 So I congratulate Lance Orton for 13 his heroic act and for thwarting what would 14 have been a very devastating terrorist attack 15 on Times Square. 16 Thank you very much. 17 (Standing ovation.) 18 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 19 DeFrancisco, on the resolution. 20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, I'd 21 also like to rise, as a Central New Yorker and 22 also a member of the Republican Conference, to 23 join in this great resolution by Senator 24 Serrano. 25 I think it's -- you know, more than

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 once I've heard people talk about, and I've 2 felt myself, how you just wonder whether or 3 not, you know, there are any things that make 4 any sense anymore. You read the news, you 5 hear horrible acts by individuals, you see 6 people doing the wrong thing and not really 7 responding the way they should and, most 8 importantly, not even doing the wrong thing 9 but just not wanting to get involved, to just 10 look the other way even while crimes are being 11 committed, look the other way -- violent 12 crimes are being committed, look the other 13 way, let's not get involved. 14 Well, it's truly a pleasure to have 15 Mr. Orton in our presence to show that there 16 still is a sense of responsibility among our 17 citizens, there still are people that do the 18 right thing despite the fact that they don't 19 get the publicity that they otherwise should 20 get. 21 And I hope you serve as an example 22 to many, many more New Yorkers that we're in 23 this thing together and, unless we all 24 participate, we're not going to be able to 25 survive some of the awful things that others

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 want to perpetrate against us. 2 So thank you, Senator Serrano, for 3 bringing this great resolution. 4 And thank you for coming here to be 5 recognized so that we could meet you 6 firsthand, and thank you for your efforts. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 8 Montgomery. 9 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, Madam 10 President, thank you. I want to join my 11 colleagues in thanking Mr. Lance Orton. 12 And I just want to say, on behalf 13 of all of the citizens of the City of 14 New York, we thank you. Because if it were 15 not for your attention and quick action, we 16 would -- many of us, some of us perhaps would 17 not be here. And we certainly know that many 18 of the citizens and tourists of the City of 19 New York would not be here today, they would 20 have been lost, would have lost their lives, 21 and it would have disrupted tremendously the 22 economy of the City of New York. 23 And so we owe you much more than a 24 resolution. But certainly we here in the 25 State Senate and in the Assembly, through our

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Assemblymember, we honor you today. 2 And as far as I am concerned, and I 3 think all of us here, today is the day that 4 should be named for you because you have done 5 so much for the citizens of this state and the 6 city. We thank you and certainly applaud you. 7 Thank you, Madam President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Are 9 there any other Senators wishing to be heard 10 on the resolution? 11 Seeing none, the question is on the 12 resolution. All those in favor please signify 13 by saying aye. 14 (Response of "Aye.") 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: 16 Opposed, nay. 17 (No response.) 18 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 19 resolution is adopted. 20 Mr. Orton is joined here today with 21 his father, Horace. 22 Senator Serrano has indicated that 23 he would like to open up the resolution for 24 cosponsorship by the entire house. Any 25 Senator not wishing to be on the resolution

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 please notify the desk. 2 Senator Klein. 3 SENATOR KLEIN: Madam President, 4 I believe there's a resolution at the desk by 5 Senator Sampson. I ask that the title of the 6 resolution be read and move for its immediate 7 adoption. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 9 Klein, has this resolution been deemed 10 privileged and submitted by the office of the 11 Temporary President? 12 SENATOR KLEIN: Yes, it has, 13 Madam President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 15 Secretary will read. 16 THE SECRETARY: By Senator 17 Sampson, legislative resolution commending 18 Sybil F. Chester upon the occasion of being 19 honored on May 20, 2010, in conjunction with 20 Women of Valor Day in the State of New York. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Are 22 there any Senators wishing to be heard on the 23 resolution? 24 Seeing none, the question is on the 25 resolution. All those in favor please signify

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 by saying aye. 2 (Response of "Aye.") 3 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: 4 Opposed, nay. 5 (No response.) 6 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 7 resolution is adopted. 8 Senator Sampson has indicated that 9 he would like to open the resolution up for 10 cosponsorship by the entire house. Any 11 Senator not wishing to be on the resolution 12 please notify the desk. 13 Senator Klein. 14 SENATOR KLEIN: Madam President, 15 there will be an immediate meeting of the 16 Finance Committee, followed by a meeting of 17 the Rules Committee in the Majority Conference 18 Room, Room 332. 19 Pending the return of the Rules 20 Committee, may we please stand at ease. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: There 22 will be an immediate meeting of the Finance 23 Committee, followed by an immediate meeting of 24 the Rules Committee in Room 332. 25 Pending the return of the Rules

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Committee, the Senate will stand at ease. 2 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at 3 ease at 4:35 p.m.) 4 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened 5 at 5:30 p.m.) 6 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 7 Klein. 8 SENATOR KLEIN: Madam President, 9 if we can return to the order of reports of 10 standing committees, I believe there's a 11 report of the Finance Committee at the desk. 12 I ask that it be read at this time. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: There 14 is a report of the Finance Committee at the 15 desk. 16 The Secretary will read. 17 THE SECRETARY: Senator Kruger, 18 from the Committee on Finance, reports the 19 following nominations. 20 As a member of the Workers' 21 Compensation Board, Loren Lobban, of Buffalo. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 23 Kruger. 24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you, 25 Madam President. Will you please move that

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 nomination. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Are 3 there any Senators wishing to be heard on the 4 nomination? 5 Senator Thompson. 6 SENATOR THOMPSON: Thank you, 7 Madam President. It's good to see you up 8 there. You haven't been up there in a while. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Nice to 10 see you too, Senator Thompson. 11 SENATOR THOMPSON: It is with 12 great pleasure and honor that I stand today to 13 support the nomination of Mr. Lobban, an 14 attorney, someone who is from Buffalo, from 15 Western New York, who I believe will provide 16 leadership and a good set of skills to a body 17 that is very important to the State of 18 New York, the Workers' Comp Board. 19 And so I'm happy that he is here 20 today. So I'm really excited, and I support 21 his nomination. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 23 Ranzenhofer. 24 SENATOR RANZENHOFER: Thank you, 25 Madam President.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 I'd like to join with Senator 2 Thompson and offer my words of congratulation. 3 I've known Mr. Lobban for over 30 years. He's 4 a well-respected member of the Western 5 New York and Buffalo community. He'll do a 6 good job on the Workers' Compensation Board. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Are 8 there any other Senators who wish to be heard 9 on the nomination? 10 Seeing none, the question is on the 11 nomination of Loren Lobban, of Buffalo, as a 12 member of the Workers' Compensation Board. 13 All those in favor please signify by saying 14 aye. 15 (Response of "Aye.") 16 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: 17 Opposed, nay. 18 (No response.) 19 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 20 motion carries. The nomination is confirmed. 21 Congratulations to Mr. Lobban. 22 (Applause.) 23 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 24 Secretary will continue to read. 25 THE SECRETARY: As a member of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 the Workers' Compensation Board, Samuel G. 2 Williams, of Lockport. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 4 Kruger. 5 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you, 6 Madam President. Can we please move the 7 nomination. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 9 Maziarz, on the nomination. 10 SENATOR MAZIARZ: Thank you very 11 much, Madam President. I rise to second this 12 nomination of my constituent, Sam Williams. 13 Sam has been a long-time proponent 14 of workers, of union members. And I don't 15 think there's anybody who could have more 16 knowledge about the challenges that a member 17 of the Workers' Compensation Board faces in 18 the protection of those hardworking men and 19 women of the State of New York who have been 20 injured on the job. 21 So I gladly second this nomination, 22 Madam President. Thank you. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 24 Stachowski. 25 SENATOR STACHOWSKI: Yes, Madam

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 President, I too rise to second the nomination 2 of Sam Williams. 3 He's been a terrific representative 4 of the working men and women in the UAW for 5 the last number of years, and a wonderful 6 individual in the community and just an asset 7 to Western New York. And now Western New York 8 will share that asset with the rest of the 9 state. 10 And in spite of the things you 11 said, I'm glad to second the nomination of Sam 12 Williams. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 14 Thompson. 15 SENATOR THOMPSON: I am excited 16 to second the nomination as well of 17 Mr. Williams. This is exciting. Today in 18 Western New York we have two distinguished 19 gentlemen; I can't remember the last time we 20 had two folks from western New York being 21 appointed to two very important boards on one 22 day. 23 But Sam is a great guy. He has a 24 great heart for the people. And this was a 25 tremendous step for him, leaving some of the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 other things he was doing with the UAW and 2 other activities. 3 And I know that he will be a 4 tremendous asset to this organization to help 5 reform the Workers' Comp Board, provide his 6 leadership and good negotiating skills to 7 really improve the Workers' Comp Board in the 8 State of New York. 9 So thank you. And I proudly 10 support his nomination. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 12 Volker. 13 SENATOR VOLKER: Thank you, Madam 14 President. 15 I kiddingly said to Sam Williams 16 the reason I decided to retire was when I saw 17 he was retiring. 18 But be that as it may, he's an old 19 friend, one of the real towers of strength, in 20 my opinion, in Western New York, one of those 21 union leaders who knows how to negotiate and 22 who to negotiate with. And well-respected by 23 the community, not only the labor community 24 but the business community also. 25 So I'm more than happy to support

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Sam, and wish him the best of luck. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Are 3 there any other Senators wishing to be heard 4 on the nomination? 5 Seeing none, the question is on the 6 motion to confirm the nomination of Samuel G. 7 Williams, of Lockport, as a member of the 8 Workers' Compensation Board. All those in 9 favor signify by saying aye. 10 (Response of "Aye.") 11 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: 12 Opposed, nay. 13 (No response.) 14 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 15 motion carries. The nomination is confirmed. 16 Congratulations, Sam Williams. 17 (Applause.) 18 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 19 Klein. 20 SENATOR KLEIN: Madam President, 21 I believe there's a report of the Rules 22 Committee at the desk. I move we adopt the 23 report at this time. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: There 25 is a report of the Rules Committee at the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 desk. 2 The Secretary will read. 3 THE SECRETARY: Senator Smith, 4 from the Committee on Rules, reports the 5 following bills: 6 Senate Print 5921A, by Senator 7 Stavisky, an act to amend the Education Law; 8 7778, by the Senate Committee on 9 Rules, an act to amend Part B of Chapter 58 of 10 the Laws of 2005; 11 7846, by the Senate Committee on 12 Rules, an act making appropriations for the 13 support of government; 14 And Senate Print 7847, by the 15 Senate Committee on Rules, an act to amend the 16 State Finance Law. 17 All bills ordered direct to third 18 reading. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: All 20 those in favor of adopting the Rules report 21 please signify by saying aye. 22 (Response of "Aye.") 23 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: 24 Opposed, nay. 25 (No response.)

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 2 Rules Committee report is adopted. 3 Senator Klein. 4 SENATOR KLEIN: Madam President, 5 at this time can we please go to a reading of 6 the calendar. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 8 Secretary will read. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 71, by Member of the Assembly Aubry, Assembly 11 Print Number 5462A, an act to amend the Social 12 Services Law. 13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay it aside. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 15 bill is laid aside. 16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 17 236, by Member of the Assembly Stirpe, 18 Assembly Print Number 8693, an act to amend 19 the Election Law. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read 21 the last section. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 23 act shall take effect on the 90th day. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call 25 the roll.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 4 bill is passed. 5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 6 293, by Senator Addabbo, Senate Print 2867C, 7 an act to amend the Real Property Law. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read 9 the last section. 10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 11 act shall take effect on the 30th day. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call 13 the roll. 14 (The Secretary called the roll.) 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 16 Senator DeFrancisco, to explain his vote. 17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. At 18 the risk of being accused of being anti-voter 19 in the State of New York, a closing is a real 20 estate transaction, and a real estate 21 transaction is really to transfer property 22 from one person to the other. 23 When I first started practicing 24 law, to accomplish a closing you had a deed 25 and the closing statement, and that was it.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Now you need about an hour and a half to go 2 through every different new form that 3 government is imposing on people at a business 4 transaction. 5 I don't think it's any more valid 6 to hand out voting registration forms at a 7 real estate closing as it might be at any 8 other business transaction. And I just think 9 enough forms are enough for real estate 10 transactions. That's why I'm voting no. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator DeFrancisco to be recorded in the 13 negative. 14 Announce the results. 15 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 16 the negative on Calendar Number 293 are 17 Senators Alesi, Bonacic, DeFrancisco, Farley, 18 Flanagan, Fuschillo, Golden, Griffo, 19 O. Johnson, Lanza, Larkin, LaValle, Leibell, 20 Maziarz, Nozzolio, Ranzenhofer, Robach, 21 Saland, Seward, Skelos, Volker, Winner and 22 Young. Also Senator Hannon. 23 Ayes, 37. Nays, 24. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 25 bill is passed.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 2 367, by Senator Addabbo, Senate Print 7221, an 3 act to amend the Election Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 13 bill is passed. 14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 15 439, by Senator Sampson -- 16 SENATOR KLEIN: Lay the bill 17 aside for the day, please. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 19 bill is laid aside for the day. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 456, by Senator Thompson, Senate Print 3560A, 22 an act to amend the Public Authorities Law. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Read 24 the last section. 25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Thompson, to explain his vote. 7 SENATOR THOMPSON: Yes, first -- 8 something changed. It's good to see you up 9 there, too, Mr. President. You haven't been 10 up there in a while. 11 Let me just first thank my 12 colleagues for supporting this bill. We did 13 make some adjustments to the bill so that not 14 only will Niagara County have a permanent seat 15 on this board, it also would ensure that 16 another upstate community, St. Lawrence 17 County, will also have a seat. 18 And these, particularly Niagara 19 County -- both Niagara Falls and Lewiston are 20 really the mainstay communities for the Power 21 Authority. And we actually pulled a list of 22 folks who have served from Niagara County and 23 from St. Lawrence over the last 60-plus years. 24 And according to the Senate central staff and 25 also NYPA, there have only been eight

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 appointees on that board in the last 60-plus 2 years. 3 So this is a very important piece 4 of legislation, and I'm glad that we are 5 moving forward with this today and look 6 forward to the Assembly passing it and the 7 Governor signing this into law so that Niagara 8 County and St. Lawrence County would also 9 always have a seat on this board. 10 Thank you. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 12 Senator Thompson to be recorded in the 13 affirmative. 14 Announce the results. 15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61. Nays, 16 0. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 18 bill is passed. 19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 20 495, by Senator Huntley -- 21 SENATOR KLEIN: Lay the bill 22 aside for the day, please. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 24 bill is laid aside for the day. 25 Senator Klein, that completes the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 noncontroversial reading of the calendar. 2 Senator Klein, it's my 3 understanding that Calendar Number 514 has 4 been removed from the active list pending 5 amendments. 6 SENATOR KLEIN: That's correct, 7 Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 9 Senator Klein. 10 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, at 11 this time can we please go to a reading of the 12 controversial calendar. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 14 Secretary will ring the bells and place 15 Calendar Number 71 before the house on the 16 controversial calendar. 17 The Secretary will read. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 71, by Member of the Assembly Aubry, Assembly 20 Print Number 5462A, an act to amend the Social 21 Services Law. 22 SENATOR SALAND: Explanation. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 24 Senator Montgomery, an explanation has been 25 requested by Senator Saland.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, thank 2 you, Mr. President. 3 This bill, as I refer to it, is the 4 Incarcerated Parents Bill. That's not the 5 official name, but that's how I refer to it. 6 It simply provides local social services 7 districts with the discretion of being able to 8 delay the filing of a petition to terminate 9 parental rights for those parents who are 10 incarcerated or who are receiving residential 11 drug treatment. 12 And so it's an optional -- it 13 provides an option for social services 14 officials to make a decision not to in fact 15 terminate the rights of a parent prematurely 16 simply because they're away from their child. 17 In this particular specific instance, because 18 they are incarcerated or are away because they 19 are in treatment. 20 The bill would require that the 21 district in fact prove that the parent has had 22 a meaningful relationship with their child 23 prior to being incarcerated and that it is in 24 the best interest of the child to maintain a 25 relationship with their parent.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 And as you know, for a child who is 2 14 or older, that child can refuse to be 3 adopted in the first place. However, for 4 younger children, this provides an additional 5 option to local social services districts to 6 in fact allow for there to be a relationship 7 between a parent and a child to be maintained 8 even though the parent is incarcerated. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Saland. 11 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 12 Mr. President. On the bill. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 14 Senator Saland, on the bill. 15 SENATOR SALAND: Mr. President, 16 some dozen or more years ago, probably 1996, 17 1997, so-called ASFA was a federally enacted 18 law which required states to do certain things 19 to comply in order to receive federal dollars. 20 New York at the time had basically 21 what was called then a family preservation 22 model. It had a woeful record with regard to 23 permanency planning for children. And both of 24 the -- and I should have prefaced my remarks 25 by saying at that time I was the chairman of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 the Senate Children and Families Committee and 2 was involved with the negotiations on this 3 bill. 4 The inability in some timely 5 fashion to provide for permanency planning, 6 the inability to free up children for adoption 7 were really at the heart of the federal 8 legislation. And we complied, although it 9 wasn't an easy task to get there. My 10 recollection was that we actually failed to 11 comply with the federal deadline because the 12 folks in the Assembly who were making policy 13 were not keenly interested in either of those 14 two topics, and it wasn't until there was a 15 threatened loss of some $400 million that the 16 Assembly finally acquiesced and we enacted the 17 legislation which is currently on the books. 18 The prime force, the prime issue, 19 the principal concern of both the federal and 20 in turn the state legislation was best 21 interests of the child. We are now talking 22 about tampering with a model that to date has 23 worked, although my understanding is that 24 New York is having problems complying with 25 federal audits with respect to its permanency

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 planning. 2 But what this bill proposes to do 3 is really to change that paradigm somewhat. 4 Currently there is not the ability to 5 terminate a parent's rights simply because 6 they're incarcerated. There has to be some 7 effort on the parent's part to maintain and 8 plan for the child's future. Failing that, 9 there can be an application made to terminate 10 the parental rights, but that is something 11 which certainly can be accomplished and is 12 accomplished, I'm sure, notwithstanding the 13 fact that there may be some parents who are 14 incarcerated. 15 We are substituting here in this 16 bill -- and in turn, I believe, jeopardizing 17 federal monies -- we are substituting for the 18 best interests of the child a standard which 19 really relies upon the status of a parent. 20 Vastly different than what we were required to 21 do in order to comply with ASFA. 22 So I am not going to prolong a 23 debate and ask questions. But suffice it to 24 say even if you want to travel this route and 25 hope that you're okay, you're rolling the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 dice, and you're rolling the dice when we're 2 already more than $9 billion in the hole. 3 And if you think you may be right 4 but you're not certain, and you want to carve 5 out an exception, you can kiss off I don't 6 know how many hundreds of millions of dollars 7 if you guessed wrong. This is not the time to 8 play craps. This is not the time to be 9 gambling. This is the worst time. 10 And if that's what you choose to 11 do, if you want to change the standard and you 12 want to run the risk of losing federal money, 13 woe be it to you if those chickens come home 14 to roost. 15 Mr. President, I certainly would 16 urge my colleagues to vote no on this measure 17 and really not only turn its back on the 18 proposal to walk away from the best interests 19 of the child standard but also to turn its 20 back on the potential loss of hundreds of 21 millions of dollars in federal aid. 22 Thank you, Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 24 you, Senator Saland. 25 Senator Savino, on the bill.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you, 2 Mr. President. 3 First, I want to thank Senator 4 Montgomery for sponsoring this bill, and I'm 5 proud to cosponsor it with her. 6 I want to state that Senator Saland 7 is correct with respect to the decision made 8 by the federal government when they enacted 9 ASFA. As many of you know, I was a caseworker 10 in the New York City child welfare system in 11 the early 1990s when, as a result of the crack 12 epidemic, the economic downturn, and the 13 explosion of the kinship foster care system, 14 we had the highest caseloads ever in the 15 history of the City of New York and other 16 parts of the state as well. 17 We had incredibly high caseloads, 18 we had a tremendous number of parents and a 19 tremendous number of children who were now 20 under foster care. And as a result of that, 21 we saw foster care placements hit an average 22 of seven years. 23 And so in an effort to try and 24 develop permanency plans that made sense, some 25 bureaucrats in Washington, without consulting

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 the practitioners in the field, came up with 2 the idea that if we tied funding to a 3 deadline, to a calendar, that that would force 4 the agencies to develop better permanency 5 plans. And in some instances it may have 6 worked. 7 But we're not dealing with widgets 8 in the child welfare system. And here's what 9 happens -- I'm going to give you the timeline 10 of a traditional case in the child welfare 11 system, from the initial child protective 12 service investigation when you receive that 13 report. And some of you know this; you've 14 worked in the system. 15 You get the first report, you start 16 your investigation, you make the determination 17 that a child must be removed because you 18 believe that they are at risk to life and/or 19 health if they remain in that parent's home. 20 When you go into court and you get that remand 21 and take the child out, then you have to come 22 out and file an Article 10. You have to file 23 a complaint of abuse and neglect, and that 24 then sets the stage for a fact-finding hearing 25 in the Family Court.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 In the New York City Family Court 2 system, which is already tremendously 3 overburdened, and we know we're short of 4 judges -- in fact, the Office of Court 5 Administration has requested that the 6 Legislature allow for the hiring of 39 7 additional Family Court judges to deal with 8 the cases that are before them. 9 So we have a dispositional hearing 10 on the initial neglect case or the abuse case 11 or the abandonment case. Oftentimes you don't 12 get a finding on the original case for 24 to 13 28 months. So you don't even have a situation 14 where a parent has been found guilty of 15 neglect or abuse on the initial charge. 16 So burdening the worker now with 17 immediately file for a termination of parental 18 rights if a child has been in placement for 15 19 of the last 22 months doesn't necessarily make 20 sense. And all this legislation would allow 21 people to do is to have the discretion that 22 the professionals in the field who service 23 that family should be able to make. 24 Some parents are going to be found 25 guilty of neglect. Some parents will also be

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 found guilty of failure to plan, which should 2 trigger a termination of parental rights. 3 Some parents will be found guilty of 4 abandonment, which should trigger a 5 termination of parental rights. All this 6 would do is say that the caseworker, the 7 social worker, the supervising social workers 8 and the family be able to have some input as 9 to whether we should automatically trigger. 10 Now, with respect to the funding, 11 the Federal Administration for Children and 12 Families has confirmed with us that this would 13 not affect New York's compliance with ASFA. 14 And in fact, six other states have requested 15 and received this waiver: Massachusetts, 16 Missouri, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Mexico 17 and Oklahoma. 18 This legislation, Senator Saland, 19 is supported by every practitioner in the 20 field, including Gladys Carrion, who's the 21 Commissioner of the Office of Children and 22 Family Services. Social workers, Legal Aid, 23 Family Court judges, everyone recognizes that 24 you can't have a one-size-fits-all approach in 25 these cases.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 And if a parent is incarcerated but 2 they are working with their agency, they are 3 maintaining contact with the child, they are 4 planning for their eventual return or some 5 alternative -- it could be parole to parent -- 6 the decision to terminate their rights should 7 not be set up by an artificial calendar. 8 In addition, the Legislature, I 9 think it was three years ago, in an effort to 10 further deal with permanency -- which is 11 critically important in this field, there's no 12 doubt about that -- we put another burden on 13 the Family Courts when we required them to 14 hold permanency hearings every six months. 15 So now you have Article 10 cases 16 that may not be adjudicated within 15 or even 17 24 months, where you don't have an initial 18 finding. You have termination of parental 19 rights filings that are being put in because 20 if the agencies feel if they don't, they won't 21 be in compliance with ASFA. And then we have 22 permanency hearings on cases where we don't 23 have an initial finding. 24 So bureaucrats sometimes, with the 25 best of intentions, put additional burdens on

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 these agencies, and they don't necessarily 2 address the issue of permanency. The best 3 people to determine when you reach that 4 permanency milestone are those working with 5 the family and those who can make the best 6 determination about what's in the best 7 interests of that child. 8 So I urge everyone to support this 9 legislation and restore the discretion to the 10 professionals who work in this field, the 11 social workers, the child protective service 12 workers, the attorneys and the judges. 13 Thank you. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Senator Saland, why do you rise? 16 SENATOR SALAND: Will Senator 17 Savino yield to a question? 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator Savino, would you yield to a question? 20 SENATOR SAVINO: Certainly. 21 SENATOR SALAND: Senator Savino, 22 so you're telling us, then, that New York has 23 a waiver already? 24 SENATOR SAVINO: We have been 25 instructed by the federal agency that this

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 will not be held against us with respect to 2 the federal funding on ASFA. 3 SENATOR SALAND: But -- you're 4 telling us that we have a waiver. 5 SENATOR SAVINO: That is my 6 understanding. I'm -- 7 SENATOR SALAND: Is there some 8 way you can verify that we have a waiver? 9 SENATOR SAVINO: If I could 10 verify for you -- the information I was 11 provided is we do have the ability to get that 12 waiver. 13 Which is why Gladys Carrion, who is 14 the Commissioner of the Office of Children and 15 Family Services, supports this. She stood 16 with us at a press conference on this. 17 SENATOR SALAND: On the bill. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator Saland. 20 SENATOR SALAND: I'm well 21 familiar with the system. I used to handle 22 these cases. I've handled neglect and abuse 23 cases, I handled permanency proceedings, I did 24 this all for the Department of Social Services 25 in Dutchess County.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 This bill is changing standards. 2 It's not as simple as saying we're going to 3 let the opinions of those in the field make 4 these determinations. This is changing the 5 standards by which the evaluations will be 6 made. It's no longer the best interests of 7 the child. 8 If you remember the ASFA 9 legislation, the reason it came about was 10 because there were a host of cases, 11 particularly in family preservation states, 12 where children who had been abused were 13 returned to homes where they were once again 14 abused, abused severely, and even killed. And 15 this was really a mandate by the feds to say, 16 you know what, you can't function that way any 17 longer. And they tied it to purse strings. 18 So in the absence of a waiver, I 19 wouldn't care who came down and said this is a 20 good idea. In the absence of a waiver, I 21 think it is at the very least imprudent, I 22 think it takes away from the protection of 23 children, and I think we run the risk, as I 24 said earlier, of losing hundreds of millions 25 of dollars.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 You show me a waiver, I will say 2 okay, that takes care of the fiscal problem. 3 It does not take care of changing the best 4 interests of the child standard. It does not 5 do that. You're elevating one segment of the 6 population over any other segment of people 7 who are affected by this kind of proposal. 8 The mayor's office opposes it. The -- 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Montgomery, why do you rise? 11 SENATOR SALAND: -- the 12 organization that represents the social 13 service protective services -- 14 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Mr. 15 President, I rise because my colleague is 16 giving some wrong information and I take 17 exception to -- 18 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 19 Senator Montgomery, are you asking Senator 20 Saland to yield to a question? 21 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Saland, do you yield? 24 SENATOR SALAND: Yes. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Senator Saland yields. 2 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. 3 Senator Saland, you say that there is no 4 waiver for this. Is that your claim, that the 5 State of New York is not allowed to do this? 6 Then how do we have six other states that have 7 already implemented this, one. And two, how 8 is it that we have the Commissioner of the 9 Office of Children and Family Services who has 10 said in no uncertain terms that we can do this 11 without jeopardizing those millions of 12 dollars? Where do you get your information 13 from? 14 SENATOR SALAND: Let me answer -- 15 let me answer your question. Does the 16 language of our existing law parallel verbatim 17 the language of those six other states? 18 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. 19 SENATOR SALAND: It does? 20 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes. 21 SENATOR SALAND: Our current 22 384B, word for word -- 23 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: It allows -- 24 SENATOR SALAND: -- is the 25 same -- that's a rather bold statement.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: It allows 2 for a waiver of the strict regulation 15 of 3 the last 22 months, yes. That is exactly what 4 we are allowed to do. That is what the waiver 5 means. 6 SENATOR SALAND: I understand 7 what the waiver means. My question to you is 8 does -- there are 50 states in this union. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Saland -- Senator Saland, you 11 currently have the floor. Okay? 12 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you. 13 Thank you, Mr. President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Senator Montgomery, are you asking if Senator 16 Saland would yield to an additional question? 17 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: He's 18 answering the last question that I asked. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Okay. 20 Senator Saland, please proceed with your 21 response. 22 SENATOR SALAND: As we all know, 23 there are 50 states in this union. And at one 24 time I had the opportunity to be the president 25 of the National Conference of State

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Legislatures, and I'm well familiar with the 2 fact that statutes from state to state even 3 dealing with the same subject matter can vary 4 dramatically. And very often it's nuance and 5 very often it's clearly leagues apart. 6 And the purpose of my question to 7 Senator Montgomery was, Can you tell me that 8 in the six states that were cited that they 9 are identical, verbatim, to the multiple pages 10 of our 384B? I would suspect it would be a 11 little difficult to do that unless you had the 12 unannotated codes or unannotated codes of 13 those six states. 14 So the fact that they may have some 15 waiver would be based certainly on the 16 particulars of whatever their statute was and 17 may not be the same as ours. And the language 18 they used to get their waiver may not be the 19 same as ours. 20 And I said further, in response to 21 the comments by Senator Savino, that even if 22 you were to secure the waiver and not 23 jeopardize the funding, you're changing the 24 best interests of the child standard. That is 25 simply not deniable in this language. I mean,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 it's repeated in several different places. 2 And it's supposed to be about the best 3 interests of the child, pure and simple. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 5 Senator Montgomery. 6 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: If Senator 7 Saland would yield for one more question. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 9 Senator Saland, would you yield for another 10 question? 11 SENATOR SALAND: Certainly, 12 Senator. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 14 Senator yields. 15 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Senator 16 Saland, I certainly respect your long years of 17 involvement and your expertise on this 18 particular issue. 19 I just would ask, are you saying, 20 then, that if the federal law allows for 21 states to have some latitude in defining what 22 happens to a child which is in the best 23 interest of the child as it relates to 24 terminating parental rights while parents are 25 incarcerated, if there is -- if the federal

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 government allows for states to do that, are 2 you saying that our language has to be exactly 3 like the language of Colorado or all the other 4 states' law? 5 SENATOR SALAND: No, I'm not 6 saying that. No, I'm not saying that. 7 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: If we adopt 8 that as part of our law using the language 9 that we have here, is that not also acceptable 10 by the federal government? 11 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 12 Senator Montgomery. No, I am not saying that 13 our language has to be identical to Colorado 14 or any one of the other five states. 15 What I am saying is in the absence 16 of documentation that there's a waiver, we do 17 not know and can't claim that we have a 18 waiver. What I'm saying is their statutes and 19 our statutes will not be of identical 20 language. There will be terms they will use, 21 there will be terms we will use. 22 And it may well be that citing 23 their experience to justify our experience is 24 inapposite, simply because there may be 25 particulars about the language of their

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 statute that may not be in our statute that 2 has enabled them to accomplish it. I don't 3 know that, but I do know it's highly unlikely 4 that you have six states that you're citing as 5 an example or examples that have identical 6 language. 7 What I'm saying, and as I've 8 concluded, is even if you can document a 9 waiver -- which at this point we can't -- that 10 takes care of the financial issue, the 11 potential loss of hundreds of millions of 12 dollars. 13 But the second issue is -- and I 14 would truly be troubled if this did not create 15 a problem obtaining the waiver -- you're 16 changing the standard and you are walking 17 away, at least in part, for this particular 18 segment of the population from the best 19 interests of the child standard. And that's 20 what drove ASFA, and that's what drove our 21 legislation back in '96 or '97. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 23 Senator Savino, why do you rise? 24 SENATOR SAVINO: Yes, would 25 Senator Saland yield for a question?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Saland, do you yield? 3 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, 4 Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 6 Senator yields. 7 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you. 8 Through you, Mr. President. I understand the 9 concern you have, Senator Saland, and I 10 believe it's heartfelt, because you do know 11 this system probably as well as I do, maybe 12 Senator Montgomery. But how should one 13 determine what is in the best interest of a 14 child? 15 SENATOR SALAND: That usually -- 16 what you have here is you are allocating to 17 the courts -- I'll cite, for example, on 18 page 2, where you're dealing with the 19 permanently neglected child, "The court shall 20 consider the special circumstances of an 21 incarcerated parent or parents or of a parent 22 or parents participating in a residential 23 abuse treatment center when determining 24 whether a child is a permanently neglected 25 child as defined in this paragraph."

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 So it's a question of fact, and the 2 court will make that decision. It's not a 3 decision that the social worker is going to 4 make. It's not a decision that the department 5 will make. The department may believe that 6 something is not happening in the best 7 interests of the child, and it will be up to 8 the court to make that decision. 9 And here what you're doing in this 10 particular situation is you are elevating the 11 status of the parents, who currently still 12 have the ability to sustain contact with their 13 children, avoid a permanent neglect problem, 14 and you're elevating their interest above the 15 best interests of the child. 16 SENATOR SAVINO: Through you, 17 Mr. President. Would Senator Saland continue 18 to yield? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 20 Senator Saland, do you continue to yield? 21 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, 22 Mr. President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 24 Senator yields. 25 SENATOR SAVINO: During the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 course of a placement, when you are the social 2 worker, the supervising social worker who has 3 to interact with that parent and that child, 4 you are responsible for helping that parent 5 plan for a permanency goal of return to 6 parent, if that is the initial goal. You may 7 have been responsible for helping that parent 8 get into particularly the residential drug 9 treatment programs. They're 24 months in 10 general. 11 How is it possible, then, for the 12 agency, which has the responsibility of 13 helping plan with that child and that parent 14 for reunification, having an artificial 15 timeline that says once you hit the 15th month 16 you must automatically file a termination of 17 parental rights, in spite of the fact that you 18 may have a parent who is incredibly engaged, 19 who is helping plan, maintains contact, has 20 visitation, participates in every planning 21 level with their child? 22 And I believe, Senator Saland, that 23 the purpose behind this legislation is not to 24 put an artificial timeline on it, but to allow 25 the discretion for the agencies to determine

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 what's in the best interests of that child in 2 that case without just having to adhere to a 3 calendar. Do you not see that? 4 SENATOR SALAND: Senator Savino, 5 I would call your attention to the first page 6 of the bill, going down to the second page of 7 the bill. And it says, notwithstanding any 8 other law to the contrary, the child -- 9 whenever the child shall have been in foster 10 care for 15 of the most recent 22 months, so 11 on, so on, so on, down to -- well, let me 12 read. 13 "The authorized agency having care 14 of the child shall file a petition pursuant to 15 this section unless, based on a case-by-case 16 determination, the child is being cared for a 17 relative or relatives, the agency is 18 documenting the most recent plan, a copy of 19 which is made available to the court, of 20 compelling reason for determining that the 21 filing of a petition will not be in the best 22 interests of the child or the agency has not 23 provided to the parent or parents of the child 24 such services as deemed necessary for the safe 25 return of the child."

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Now, you already have, in 2 subsection B, the very thing that you would 3 need to resolve your issue. The agency would 4 merely have to go to the court and say, "Well, 5 we have more work to do." 6 SENATOR SAVINO: Senator 7 Saland -- would he continue to yield? 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 9 Senator Saland, do you continue to yield? 10 SENATOR SALAND: Yes, 11 Mr. President. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 13 Senator yields. 14 SENATOR SAVINO: I can read that 15 as well, Senator Saland. 16 The problem is because we have tied 17 ASFA funding to this regulation that says you 18 must file for termination of parental rights 19 if a child's been in placement for 15 of the 20 last 22 months, and these agencies depend upon 21 federal money, they have interpreted ASFA to 22 mean that they must do this. And they always 23 do this. 24 And what they have asked of this 25 Legislature is to grant them the ability to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 make that determination based upon what they 2 feel is in the best interests of that child 3 and that family without being afraid of 4 jeopardizing their federal funding. 5 I guess there's not a question 6 there, is there? 7 SENATOR SALAND: (Laughing.) 8 That is not a question. 9 SENATOR SAVINO: So it's not 10 necessarily a question, that was more of a 11 statement. But that is what has happened in 12 practice. 13 SENATOR SALAND: Well, I 14 certainly -- my experience certainly was not 15 within the five boroughs of the City of 16 New York, and I can't account for what is 17 occurring in the five boroughs of the City of 18 New York. And quite candidly, it's been a 19 long time since I've handled one of these 20 cases. 21 But the simple fact of the matter 22 is that the statute anticipates the very issue 23 that you raise. And if in fact in its 24 application the relevant agency or agencies 25 are not appropriately discharging their

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 duties, then that's where the problem lies. 2 It doesn't lie in the statute, it lies in the 3 discharge of the duties by the agency. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 5 Senator Savino. 6 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 8 you. Thank you, Senator Saland. 9 Senator Hassell-Thompson, on the 10 bill. 11 SENATOR HASSELL-THOMPSON: Thank 12 you, Mr. President. 13 Most of the issues that I wanted to 14 cover have been covered by Senator Savino. 15 But I just want to reiterate a couple of 16 things that got lost in this. 17 I don't see this legislation doing 18 all these compelling things that Senator 19 Saland has stated that it does. Rather, what 20 it does is gives more discretion to the courts 21 to expand on the time frame in which 22 termination of parental rights can and should 23 occur. 24 I agree with him that the safety of 25 children is a major factor in this state. But

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 there's nothing in this bill that changes that 2 situation. In the cases of abuse, this does 3 not apply. In cases of mental illness, this 4 does not apply. In cases of permanent 5 neglect, this does not apply. In cases of 6 abandonment, this does not apply. 7 What does apply is that in many of 8 these situations the idea was to keep children 9 from languishing in foster care for 10 indeterminate amounts of time. One of the 11 things that's very clear, Senator Saland, is 12 that children of African descent, when those 13 parental rights have been terminated, those 14 children still don't get adopted. 15 This bill does not cover the wide 16 range of ills that you'd like to believe that 17 it does. Once those parental rights are 18 terminated, those children have to stay in the 19 system until they're 18 years old. 20 There are opportunities for mothers 21 who -- one of the things I think that concerns 22 me most is that when women are incarcerated, 23 their median period is 36 months. And where 24 they're placed in the state may not 25 necessarily allow them to have the physical

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 contact that this bill implies that they 2 should have in order to meet the standard. 3 The other thing is that when women 4 come home, very different from men. Women 5 wait for men to return from prison. Men don't 6 wait for their women to come home from prison. 7 And if they lose both family and their 8 children, women have nothing to come home to. 9 What this bill allows for is more discretion 10 on behalf of the courts. 11 And under those circumstances, 12 without causing any danger to the safety of 13 children, Mr. President, I will in fact be 14 voting yes on this bill. Thank you. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 16 you, Senator Hassell-Thompson. 17 Senator Duane, on the legislation. 18 SENATOR DUANE: Thank you, 19 Mr. President. I am in great support of this 20 bill. And I really commend Senator Montgomery 21 for her efforts in passage of this 22 legislation. 23 And I have -- Senator Montgomery 24 shares this experience of unfortunately, I 25 think, in our minds, sitting on the other side

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 of the aisle and differing on implementation 2 of some laws that impacted what happened to 3 children. 4 And I think that there is no 5 perfect solution. There is no one size fits 6 all. And I think that there are no bad 7 intentions. There weren't on our side when 8 Senator Saland was working on this issue when 9 he was sitting on this side of the aisle, and 10 certainly there weren't when we were working 11 or debating him on those issues, and the same 12 situation as now. 13 We're talking about really an art 14 and not a science. And we are, in today's 15 real world, trying to find a way to provide 16 the appropriate amount of discretion for 17 foster care agencies and for the Family 18 Courts. 19 I want to address the issue of a 20 waiver just for a moment. All the time we are 21 negotiating with Health and Human Services on 22 what they believe will be acceptable language. 23 They're very careful about it. But we don't 24 move forward on anything unless we have an 25 agreement in principle on what it is that we

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 want to implement. 2 I mean, this is true in this case; 3 it's certainly true and will be true as we 4 struggle to implement the federal health care 5 reform. We'll have to implement things in our 6 budget, in our language. And we will do that 7 working with them in advance of getting a 8 waiver. It happens all the time. It's very, 9 very common in a state's relationship with the 10 federal government. 11 And I think that one of the points 12 or philosophies or beliefs that we try to get 13 across, many of us, is that we actually truly 14 believe that rehabilitation is rehabilitation. 15 And maybe there should be more rehabilitation 16 happening in our correctional facilities. 17 Certainly I would like to see more 18 programs that would aid in rehabilitation, 19 ranging from educational opportunities, 20 including college education, to a whole host 21 of other programs which would actually do more 22 to help in rehabilitation, because I believe 23 that incarceration should not just be about 24 punishment but also about rehabilitation. 25 And the same is true of alcohol and

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 substance abuse. If you believe that someone 2 being in rehabilitation is about being in 3 rehabilitation and recovery from alcohol or 4 drug use, then -- then I think -- then I also 5 believe that this will help the person to be a 6 better parent, that rehabilitation can do 7 that. 8 You know, the reality in our state 9 is that many of our correctional facilities 10 are far away from where these families are. 11 Not in every case, but in many, many cases. 12 And so it's different for, for instance, a 13 woman who's incarcerated in Bedford Hills than 14 one that's incarcerated in Albion. And foster 15 care agencies don't have the resources -- I 16 wish they did, but they don't; it's tough 17 economic times -- to be able to work with a 18 parent in a place that's so far away. That's 19 just the reality of the way New York State is. 20 And so the extension of 15 months 21 to 22 months just allows for more discretion, 22 more flexibility, and more of a chance. It 23 doesn't say you have to, it doesn't tie 24 anyone's hands. It's just providing for more 25 flexibility and the reality of the world that

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 we're living in and the state that we're 2 living in. 3 So I think this is a very good bill 4 that -- it's not perfect. The old way wasn't 5 perfect. It's another best-efforts attempt to 6 keep families together. I think the 7 difference is that there's more of a belief 8 that rehabilitation is rehabilitation. And it 9 provides our Family Courts -- and we just 10 allowed for more Family Court judges to be 11 appointed. So it allows the agencies and the 12 courts more flexibility, more time, more 13 opportunity to do the right thing by more 14 children. 15 And so let's try it. Let's do 16 this. It seems there's many people who share 17 our interest in the best interests of children 18 who support this. You know, the City of New 19 York, they never support anything, frankly. 20 You know, so I'm not surprised they're against 21 this. But recognized -- I mean, people that I 22 have the utmost respect for, and even those 23 who people on the other side of the aisle may 24 disagree with but who respect think that this 25 is something we need to try.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 And so I urge all of my colleagues 2 to vote in favor of it and provide the 3 agencies and the courts the chance to have 4 this additional discretion, with the hope and 5 belief that this will allow more families to 6 be together. 7 Thank you, Mr. President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 9 you, Senator Duane. 10 Senator Schneiderman, on the bill. 11 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Thank you, 12 Mr. President. 13 I rise in support of this 14 legislation. I'd like to thank Senator 15 Montgomery and the others, several of my 16 colleagues who have spoken, who have been 17 active in this area. 18 But I just want to correct a couple 19 of misimpressions that people may be left with 20 after the debate. This is very simply a bill 21 that makes the federal law less of a blunt 22 instrument. The policy is that there's a -- 23 and I would urge Senator Saland that I have 24 here the federal law, Title 42 of the Public 25 Health and Welfare Act, Chapter 7, Social

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Security Act. This is the federal law that 2 everyone has been referring to. 3 The federal law explicitly allows a 4 state to do exactly what we're doing here. 5 The federal law says the state shall file a 6 petition to terminate the parental rights of 7 the child's parents unless -- and there's 8 several categories. And one is a state agency 9 has documented in the case plan, which shall 10 be available for court review, a compelling 11 reason for determining that filing such a 12 petition would not be in the best interests of 13 the child. 14 Senator Montgomery's bill simply 15 amends our state law to provide that a social 16 service agency may consider the incarceration 17 of a parent in making the determination that 18 there is a compelling reason that filing such 19 a petition, a petition to sever the family 20 relationship, would not be in the best 21 interests of the child. 22 And I would urge all of my 23 colleagues that all this does is really 24 rectify a flaw in the current law. It is 25 completely unreasonable to suggest that a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 parent who's incarcerated has exactly the same 2 standards when it comes to how much contact 3 they're maintaining with the child, what 4 they're doing. You could have a parent who, 5 when they get out, might be the best parent on 6 earth, but under the current federal law they 7 would be faced with this sort of a petition. 8 So all this does -- and it doesn't 9 say everyone who's incarcerated. It doesn't 10 create a special category of people who 11 favored treatment. It simply allows the 12 discretion to take that into account. It is 13 in the best interests of the child to have 14 their parents with them. And the court has to 15 determine -- I mean, unless, you know, there 16 are egregious circumstances set forth in our 17 laws and in the federal law. 18 Abandonment of a child is a very 19 serious thing. But abandonment of a child due 20 to incarceration is very different than 21 abandonment of the child if someone is out 22 walking around on the streets but not 23 interested in seeing their children. 24 So I would urge all of my 25 colleagues that all Senator Montgomery's bill

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 does is says let's comply with the federal law 2 and let's modify our state law to say we're 3 going to take into consideration this 4 particular set of factors and allow an agency 5 or the court to determine -- and the language 6 "best interests of child" is throughout, is 7 included throughout Senator Montgomery's bill. 8 I'm reading from page 2, line 27. 9 This requires explicitly, contrary to what was 10 stated earlier, that the court must find that 11 the continued involvement of the parent in the 12 child's life is in the child's best interests 13 in order to apply this discretion that Senator 14 Montgomery's bill would allow. 15 So all this does is says the 16 court's hands are not tied, the agency's hands 17 are not tied. They are allowed to take into 18 consideration, as provided by federal law, the 19 factor of incarceration and make a decision 20 based wholly on these circumstances and then 21 analyze what's in the best interests of the 22 child without any rigid parameters that 23 prevent an agency or a court from giving full 24 and fair treatment to all factors. 25 This is a bill that corrects a flaw

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 in the law, in my view. I understand there 2 are a lot of disagreements. But it is very 3 difficult for those of us who deal with issues 4 related to -- have districts with a lot of 5 people who are incarcerated and are dealing 6 with reentry problems, to allow the law to 7 exist as it does today, where you have -- you 8 know, we don't have a couple of hundred 9 thousand people in prison in the United States 10 anymore, ladies and gentlemen. We now have 11 2.3 million people in prison. They come from 12 particular communities. 13 We have to allow the factor of 14 incarceration to be considered in the 15 determination of what's in the best interests 16 of the child. That's all this bill does. 17 That's all this bill does. 18 There are 11,000 children in 19 New York State who have a parent in prison who 20 are subject to this. This just allows an 21 agency to take it into account. It is totally 22 reasonable, it is totally lawful, it is in 23 full compliance with the federal law. I urge 24 everyone to vote for Senator Montgomery's 25 bill, Mr. President.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 2 you, Senator Schneiderman. 3 Senator Liz Krueger, on the bill. 4 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Everything 5 I intended to say has been said. I fully 6 support this bill and I look forward to all of 7 my colleagues voting yes. 8 Thank you, Senator. Excuse me, 9 Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 11 you, Senator Krueger. 12 Senator Stewart-Cousins, on the 13 bill. 14 SENATOR STEWART-COUSINS: Thank 15 you, Mr. President. 16 I have to say that as well. I 17 thought it was just very important that we 18 understand that this is an addition to, it is 19 not a subtraction. We're not taking away from 20 the best interests of the children. 21 Clearly, the court will still have 22 the discretion. All of the inputs will still 23 be there. But what won't be there are those 24 women who have come to my office year after 25 year in tears because they were following

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 everything they were supposed to do but the 2 regulations that existed did not allow them to 3 be reunited with their children because of the 4 time frames that were in place. 5 So clearly we don't want -- I think 6 if we look at the 384B that's referred to 7 through the entire bill, the first part of 8 384B talks about how important it is, when it 9 works, to have children and their families 10 together. So rather than create impediments 11 that would disallow for that to happen, this 12 bill allows for the right things to happen for 13 the right reasons when it's right. 14 And I want to commend Senator 15 Montgomery for having put this forward. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 17 you, Senator Stewart-Cousins. 18 Are there any other Senators who 19 wish to be heard on the bill? 20 Seeing none, the debate is closed, 21 and the Secretary will ring the bells. 22 The Secretary will read the last 23 section. 24 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 25 act shall take effect immediately.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Call 2 the roll. 3 (The Secretary called the roll.) 4 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 5 Senator Farley, to explain his vote. 6 SENATOR FARLEY: Thank you, 7 Mr. President. 8 You know, I might be able to vote 9 for this bill if it had a contingency in there 10 that we could get a waiver. But the last time 11 I looked, the United States has as bad a 12 fiscal situation -- or worse -- than ours. 13 And we're risking hundreds of millions of 14 dollars. 15 And again, I say there's no 16 contingency in this legislation that says if 17 we don't get a waiver. We don't have a 18 waiver. And the mere fact that somebody 19 thinks we might get one is no reason to vote 20 for this legislation. I vote no. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 22 Senator Farley to be recorded in the negative. 23 Senator Savino, to explain her 24 vote. 25 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Mr. President. 2 Briefly, I just want to reiterate 3 that the determination of what's in the best 4 interests of a child should not be set by an 5 arbitrary time clock, neither by Washington 6 nor by the State of New York. 7 And I just want to emphasize as 8 well that the termination of parental rights 9 does not necessarily equate to permanency. 10 The sad reality is that there are 7,000 11 children in the City of New York right now 12 whose parents' rights were terminated in a 13 court of law within the past three years, and 14 they continue to languish in foster care 15 because they're either too old or they have 16 some issues and their foster parents are not 17 interested in adopting them. 18 And there is no more tragic moment 19 in the life of an adolescent than the day you 20 hand them their new birth certificate and they 21 see their mother's name has been stricken from 22 it as if she never existed. All we're trying 23 to do is say give agencies and caseworkers the 24 discretion to make the determination for that 25 child and that parent.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Thank you. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator Savino to be recorded in the 4 affirmative. 5 Senator Montgomery, to explain her 6 vote. 7 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, 8 Mr. President. I just would like to make sure 9 that the citizens of our state understand the 10 meaning of this legislation. 11 It is simply that we are allowing 12 the discretion, on the part of the local 13 districts and social service agencies, that 14 they do not have to terminate immediately the 15 rights of a parent based on the fact that the 16 parent has been incarcerated, that they can 17 allow for more time. 18 So in a real sense this bill allows 19 for permanency to be maintained between a 20 child and that child's biological parent, even 21 though the parent may be incarcerated and 22 unable to be with that child on a continuing 23 basis for 15 of the last 22 months. So that's 24 one thing. 25 Two, I want to make sure that our

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 citizens understand that there is no danger of 2 the State of New York losing money, losing 3 federal funding because of this bill. That is 4 quite the contrary. In fact, we will be 5 saving money, because keeping children -- 6 putting children in foster care, terminating 7 parental rights costs an awful lot more than 8 allowing them to maintain the relationship 9 with their parents. 10 And three, I want to just make sure 11 that people understand that there are 12 safeguards in this bill that require, one, 13 evidence of a relationship between the parent 14 and the child; and, two, that it is in the 15 best interests of the child that we do not 16 violate those standards in this legislation. 17 It is expressly stated. 18 And I want to say, Mr. President, 19 just in conclusion, I certainly am going to be 20 voting yes on my bill, but I want to -- I 21 would like to have my colleagues review the 22 number of agencies and organizations, judges, 23 other people, including the New York State 24 Correctional Officers Association, many, many 25 others who are in support of this. Because we

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 all recognize, Mr. President -- 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: Thank 3 you, Senator. 4 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: -- that we 5 want to maintain parental contact. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 7 Senator Montgomery, how do you vote? 8 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: I vote yes. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Montgomery to be recorded in the 11 affirmative. 12 Senator Winner, to explain his 13 vote. 14 SENATOR WINNER: Thank you, 15 Mr. President. 16 I'm voting no on this measure 17 because the language of this bill specifically 18 states that the court, in the determination as 19 to whether or not to make a determination of 20 permanent neglect, specifically has to make a 21 consideration and take into account the 22 circumstances as to whether the parent is 23 incarcerated. And the mere fact of the 24 incarceration serves as an excuse for failure 25 to maintain any kind of reasonable contact and

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 making reasonable plans for the future of that 2 child. 3 And that the court now is required 4 to take into consideration the mere fact of 5 that incarceration and can treat it as a total 6 excuse for its failure to have any meaningful 7 contact with that child, by the mere fact of 8 its incarceration, that is a radical departure 9 from the standard of permanent neglect in this 10 state, moving away from what is in the best 11 interests of the child, and will also create 12 circumstances where there will be a 13 substantial increase in the length of time 14 that children are in foster care in this 15 state. 16 And while the secondary reasons 17 that many of my colleagues have pointed out on 18 the financial considerations of the waiver are 19 important, the fact of the change of the 20 standard, of moving away from the best 21 interests of the child to fundamentally 22 excusing the incarceration and using it as a 23 shield to have any limited contact in planning 24 for that child, is a reason to vote no. 25 And I vote no, Mr. President.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Thank you. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 3 Senator Winner to be recorded in the negative. 4 Senator Squadron, to explain his 5 vote. 6 SENATOR SQUADRON: Thank you, 7 Mr. President. I rise in support of this 8 bill. 9 I want to commend and thank Senator 10 Montgomery for her leadership on this issue 11 and so many issues involving the most 12 vulnerable children in the state and families 13 who need the state's support. She has been a 14 real leader. 15 This bill is a very easy one, I 16 guess, to put up a boogeyman and start 17 attacking. But of course that's not based on 18 the reality of the bill. The reality of the 19 bill is that this gives local social services 20 districts, folks on the ground the ability to 21 make the best decision for kids and for 22 families on the ground across the state. 23 I am shocked that anyone would be 24 opposed to that. I really am. I guess that 25 when you get the word "incarceration" or you

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 get some of the other concepts in there that 2 were throw out today, it's just too tempting 3 to say, you know what, best interests of the 4 kids come after the ability to create a 5 political football here. 6 The fact is this will give an 7 enormous amount of local freedom in a place 8 that it's needed. It will hold families 9 together that are otherwise being torn apart. 10 And that's good for the state, it's good for 11 the children and families of the state. 12 I thank Senator Montgomery, and I 13 vote aye. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 15 Senator Squadron to be recorded in the 16 affirmative. 17 Senator Saland, to explain his 18 vote. 19 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 20 Mr. President. 21 Mr. President, first let me echo 22 Senator Winner's comments with regard to the 23 permanent neglect. I had mentioned that 24 during the course of the debate; there is no 25 best-interest standard in the permanent

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 neglect portion that this bill would seek to 2 amend. 3 I would also mention that there 4 were, as of I believe February of 2002, some 5 17 waivers pending at the federal Department 6 of Health and Human Services, and they only 7 had the authority to grant 10. And they've 8 granted either five or six of them to this 9 point. 10 So there are some 10 or 11 waivers 11 left, with the authority to grant four of 12 them. So some states are going to get burned. 13 I have absolutely no idea which states are 14 going to get burned unless there's a different 15 reauthorization. 16 And let me conclude by reading from 17 the memo of the New York Public Welfare 18 Association in opposition to this bill. And 19 that's the association that represents I guess 20 the 57 social service departments outside of 21 the City of New York. 22 I'll read, in part: "A parent's 23 incarceration or substance abuse is not 24 grounds to terminate parental rights in 25 New York. There must be clear and convincing

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 proof that the parent has failed to resolve 2 their issues and that the district made 3 diligent efforts to return the child to the 4 parent. 5 "Current law clearly allows the 6 agency not to file to terminate parental 7 rights of any parent -- regardless of what the 8 parent's issues are -- if being freed for 9 adoption is not in the child's best interests. 10 However, the exception is now correctly based 11 on the child's best interests, and the bill 12 would inappropriately place the exception on 13 the parent's situation." 14 And it concludes with a fiscal 15 impact statement: "This bill would lead to 16 much longer stays in foster care, putting the 17 state out of compliance with federal laws on 18 permanency and risking fiscal penalties to the 19 state. Since the state limits its fiscal 20 liability under the Foster Care Block Grant, 21 the entire cost of the additional time in 22 foster care would be applied to counties and 23 New York City. This bill would significantly 24 increase costs to local government without 25 providing a revenue source. As a result, it

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 is in directl conflict with Executive Order 2 Number 17, issues on April 17, 2009." 3 Mr. President, I vote in the 4 negative. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 6 Senator Saland to be recorded in the negative. 7 Senator Oppenheimer, to explain her 8 vote. 9 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: I'll be 10 voting yes, because I think that there's 11 little question that the best place for a 12 child to be is with their parent or in contact 13 with their parent. 14 And I can only tell you what 15 happens at a prison near my home, which is 16 Bedford Hills prison. Which, when -- what's 17 her name? I forgot the woman that got 18 incarcerated, before she got incarcerated she 19 was headmistress of a -- 20 SENATOR SCHNEIDERMAN: Jean 21 Harris. 22 SENATOR OPPENHEIMER: Thank you. 23 Couldn't think of the name. Jean Harris. She 24 killed her lover, that's how she got there. 25 But once she was there, she did

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 amazing things. She started a program for 2 mothers and children so that children would be 3 brought to the Bedford Hills maximum security 4 prison in Bedford, in Westchester. 5 This program has been a huge 6 success. It is so important that they even 7 made a special stipulation so that the first 8 year of the child's life, the child could live 9 in the prison with the mother. And thereafter 10 the mothers and the children got together on 11 weekends. 12 And so, I mean, it undermines the 13 significance -- maybe if prisons were closer 14 to where some of our -- the families of 15 incarcerated women are, perhaps it would be 16 easy to put in this place. But you have to be 17 able to get the children to the prison, and 18 then they can maintain this contact with their 19 parent the entire time. 20 And I think it's just a pity that 21 so many of our prisons are all the way 22 upstate. And that's a whole other subject. 23 But I certainly will be voting yes 24 because maintaining connection with the parent 25 is most important.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 2 Senator Oppenheimer to be recorded in the 3 affirmative. 4 Senator Liz Krueger, to explain her 5 vote. 6 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 7 Well, before, I thought everything 8 had been said on the bill, but apparently it 9 hadn't. So let me just for this record 10 clarify as I explain my vote as a yes. 11 We know from the federal government 12 we are not losing money. We know -- all this 13 discussion about waivers is moot. There will 14 be no waivers needed, no waivers having to be 15 chosen between -- other states have done this. 16 It has worked. 17 We are not -- I repeat, we are not 18 with this bill changing the standard of the 19 best interests of the child framework for 20 decision-making. We are allowing the courts 21 and the social service experts to make an 22 exception to a very short timeline if they 23 believe that it is in the best interests of 24 the child to have some additional time. 25 It will not be used willy-nilly.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 It will not throw off any of the fiscal or 2 timeline situation of ensuring that children 3 are placed in the best, safest and healthiest 4 environment for them. I really think we've 5 gotten a little off-track with this debate. 6 And I hope that we are now going to hear that 7 this vote has passed. 8 I vote yes, Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: 10 Senator Liz Krueger to be recorded in the 11 affirmative. 12 Announce the results. 13 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 14 the negative on Calendar Number 71 are 15 Senators Alesi, Bonacic, DeFrancisco, Farley, 16 Flanagan, Fuschillo, Golden, Griffo, Hannon, 17 O. Johnson, Lanza, Larkin, LaValle, Leibell, 18 Libous, Little, Marcellino, Maziarz, McDonald, 19 Nozzolio, Padavan, Ranzenhofer, Robach, 20 Saland, Seward, Skelos, Volker, Winner and 21 Young. 22 Ayes, 32. Nays, 29. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 24 bill is passed. 25 Senator Klein, that completes the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 reading of the calendar. 2 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, at 3 this time can we please go to a reading of the 4 supplemental calendar. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 6 Secretary will proceed with the reading of 7 Senate Supplemental Calendar 48A. 8 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 9 552, by Senator Stavisky, Senate Print 5921A, 10 an act to amend the Education Law. 11 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay it aside. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT VALESKY: The 13 bill is laid aside. 14 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 15 Calendar Number 553, Senator C. Kruger moves 16 to discharge, from the Committee on Finance, 17 Assembly Bill Number 11012 and substitute it 18 for the identical Senate Bill Number 7778, 19 Third Reading Calendar 553. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: 21 Substitution ordered. 22 The Secretary will read. 23 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 24 553, by the Assembly Committee on Rules, 25 Assembly Print Number 11012, an act to amend

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Part B of Chapter 58 of the Laws of 2005. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Read 3 the last section. 4 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 5 act shall take effect immediately. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Call 7 the roll. 8 (The Secretary called the roll.) 9 SENATOR WINNER: Lay it aside. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 11 bill is laid aside. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 554, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 14 Print Number 7846, an act making 15 appropriations for the support of government. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 17 Klein. 18 SENATOR KLEIN: Madam President, 19 is there a message of necessity and 20 appropriation at the desk? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Yes, 22 Senator Klein, there is a message of necessity 23 and appropriation at the desk. 24 SENATOR KLEIN: I move to accept 25 the message at this time.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 2 question is on the acceptance of the message 3 of necessity and appropriation. All those in 4 favor please signify by saying aye. 5 (Response of "Aye.") 6 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: 7 Opposed, nay. 8 (No response.) 9 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 10 message is accepted. 11 Read the last section. 12 THE SECRETARY: Section 17. This 13 act shall take effect immediately. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Call 15 the roll. 16 (The Secretary called the roll.) 17 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 19 Libous, why do you rise? 20 SENATOR LIBOUS: This is the 21 extender? 22 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: This is 23 Calendar 554. 24 SENATOR LIBOUS: Is this the 25 extender?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Yes. 2 SENATOR LIBOUS: Could I ask that 3 we withdraw the roll call and lay the bill 4 aside, please. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 6 roll call is withdrawn, and the bill is laid 7 aside. 8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you. 9 SENATOR WINNER: Madam President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Yes, 11 Senator Winner. 12 SENATOR WINNER: I'd like to 13 remove the lay-aside on Calendar Number 553. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 15 lay-aside is lifted. 16 The Secretary will put 553 before 17 the house. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 553, substituted earlier by the Assembly 20 Committee on Rules, Assembly Print Number 21 11012, an act to amend Part B of Chapter 58 of 22 the Laws of 2005. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Read 24 the last section. 25 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 act shall take effect immediately. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Call 3 the roll. 4 (The Secretary called the roll.) 5 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: 6 Announce the results. 7 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 9 bill is passed. 10 The Secretary will continue to 11 read. 12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 13 555, by the Senate Committee on -- 14 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay it aside. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 16 bill is laid aside. 17 The Secretary will read. 18 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 19 555, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 20 Print 7847, an act to amend the State Finance 21 Law. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 23 Klein. 24 SENATOR KLEIN: Madam President, 25 is there a message of necessity at the desk?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: There 2 is a message of necessity at the desk. 3 SENATOR KLEIN: Madam President, 4 I ask that we move to accept the message of 5 necessity at this time. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: All 7 those in favor of accepting the message of 8 necessity please signify by saying aye. 9 (Response of "Aye.") 10 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: 11 Opposed, nay. 12 (No response.) 13 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 14 message is accepted. 15 Read the last section. 16 SENATOR LIBOUS: Lay it aside. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 18 bill is laid aside. 19 Senator Klein, that completes the 20 reading of the noncontroversial supplemental 21 calendar. 22 SENATOR KLEIN: Madam President, 23 at this time can we please to a reading of the 24 controversial supplemental calendar. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Secretary will ring the bell. 2 Members are all asked to come to 3 the chamber and stay here for the reading of 4 the controversial supplemental calendar. 5 The Secretary will read. 6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 7 552, by Senator Stavisky, Senate Print 5921A, 8 an act to amend the Education Law. 9 SENATOR SALAND: Explanation, 10 please. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 12 Stavisky, an explanation has been requested. 13 SENATOR STAVISKY: In 2002, 14 legislation was passed for the licensure of 15 clinical -- first, licensed master social 16 worker, licensed clinical social worker, 17 licensed mental health counseling, licensed 18 marriage and family therapy, licensed creative 19 arts therapy, licensed psychoanalysts, and 20 licensing of the psychologists. 21 When the bill was passed eight 22 years ago, they created a temporary exemption 23 from the licensing requirements to allow state 24 and localities to provide services with 25 unlicensed professional personnel. And that

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 has continued. Negotiations have transpired 2 over the last eight years or so. And the 3 state agencies have not yet come into 4 compliance, and many are still staffed with 5 the nonlicensed personnel. 6 The exemption expires on June 1st. 7 They are concerned, the state agencies are 8 concerned that they have to provide notice to 9 those people if they're going to be laid off. 10 And that's why we were asked to do the bill, 11 to give them some time. 12 This bill is an extension of the 13 existing exemption until 2013. But it 14 requires detailed reporting by the agencies to 15 ensure compliance by 2013. But there are 16 reporting requirements due in July of 2011 to 17 show the progress that's being made. 18 This is a continuation of what we 19 have done in the Article 7 language in the 20 past budgets to continue the extension of time 21 for them to comply with the license areas. 22 And the Governor's program bill did not have 23 as many safeguards as this bill has, which is 24 why we have sponsored this bill. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Saland. 2 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Madam 3 President. Would Senator Stavisky yield to a 4 couple of questions? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 6 Stavisky, will you yield? 7 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes, sir. 8 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 9 Senator Stavisky. 10 Senator Stavisky, am I correct, 11 then, based upon your explanation, in the fact 12 that to the extent that there are waivers 13 permitted, those waivers are permitted only to 14 those entities referred to on the first page 15 of the bill, 6053-a, paragraph 1: 16 Not-for-profits formed for charitable, 17 educational or religious purposes or an 18 education corporation as defined in some other 19 section of law? Are these the entities to 20 which the waiver will continue to be 21 applicable? 22 SENATOR STAVISKY: Waivers 23 address the corporate practice issues. The 24 law did not contain a general exemption for 25 the community-based providers. They provide a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 whole variety of services in the license areas 2 that I described. 3 SENATOR SALAND: So these 4 additional providers are community-based 5 providers, not-for-profits, such as I just 6 made reference to? 7 SENATOR STAVISKY: There are two 8 sections to the bill. One is the exemption 9 for the entity. And we're talking about -- 10 and it's the entity, not the individuals. The 11 second section deals with the corporate 12 practice, and that's the exemptions for the 13 waivers. 14 SENATOR SALAND: If I may -- if 15 the Senator will continue to yield. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 17 Stavisky, will you continue to yield? 18 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. 19 SENATOR SALAND: Over on page 5, 20 Section 5 makes reference to Section 7706 of 21 the Education Law -- 22 SENATOR STAVISKY: Excuse me one 23 second while I get the bill. Page 5? 24 SENATOR SALAND: Beginning at 25 line 25 -- actually, at line 27 it makes

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 reference to Section 7706 of the Education 2 Law. 3 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. 4 SENATOR SALAND: I don't have the 5 context for that paragraph. Could you tell me 6 what that paragraph does and the context in 7 which it is located? 8 SENATOR STAVISKY: I don't have 9 the McKinney's with me. You'll have to bear 10 with me for a second. (Pause.) 11 No, I don't have the McKinney's 12 with me. 13 SENATOR SALAND: Okay. Perhaps I 14 could ask you -- 15 SENATOR STAVISKY: That section 16 apparently, I've been advised, discusses the 17 professions that are able to be licensed. It 18 deals with the licensing of professions. 19 SENATOR SALAND: So under this 20 subdivision or section, a licensed master 21 social worker, in order to be able to practice 22 under I assume the exemption, has to practice 23 through an individual appropriately licensed 24 or otherwise authorized to provide such 25 services or a professional entity authorized

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 to provide such services? Or in fact those 2 are the entities which can provide the 3 services? 4 SENATOR STAVISKY: Those entities 5 are already existing in the statute. Nothing 6 in this bill prohibits them from continuing to 7 practice. There's nothing new in this bill. 8 SENATOR SALAND: Lastly -- if I 9 can continue, Madam President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 11 Stavisky, do you continue to yield? 12 SENATOR STAVISKY: Yes. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 14 Stavisky yields. 15 SENATOR SALAND: Over on page 6, 16 Section 8, the existing law begins at page 14, 17 and it makes reference to experience. 18 Somewhere -- am I looking at the right 19 section? Excuse me one minute. 20 Did I see somewhere either in the 21 existing language or in this bill, Senator 22 Stavisky, a 3,000-hour requirement for a 23 graduating -- 24 SENATOR STAVISKY: I believe they 25 are negotiating to reduce that number. It's

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 what they call the funneling issue, and 2 they're trying to make it less onerous. 3 There's going to be a board or a working group 4 set up to try to take a look at the number -- 5 the clinical experience that's required. 6 It's very difficult for many social 7 workers to qualify, and they're taking a very 8 close look. And that's why we have the 9 extension, so that they have time to review 10 the clinical hours that are needed. 11 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, 12 Senator. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Are 14 there any other Senators wishing to be heard? 15 Seeing none, the Secretary will 16 ring the bell. Members are asked to come to 17 the chamber for the vote. 18 Read the last section. 19 THE SECRETARY: Section 15. This 20 act shall take effect immediately. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Call 22 the roll. 23 (The Secretary called the roll.) 24 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 25 LaValle, to explain his vote.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR LaVALLE: Thank you very 2 much, Madam President. 3 As everyone knows, in licensure 4 bills dealing with professionals, the whole 5 thrust behind licensure is to protect the 6 public. It's consumer protection, protecting 7 the public. 8 The licensure law for those 9 individuals practicing psychotherapy was my 10 legislation. And I can tell you that this 11 area of licensing psychotherapy professionals 12 has been in the halls of this Legislature for 13 many, many decades. It has been very, very 14 contentious. 15 The last piece in the bill was the 16 licensure of social workers. And to say that 17 this has been a work in progress is an 18 understatement. The time has come, Senator 19 Stavisky -- and both Senator Stavisky and I 20 have talked about this, is that this waiver 21 has -- we bounced it now for a number of 22 years. 23 I'm going to support the bill. I'm 24 going to vote yes. I think that the sunset is 25 probably a little too long. But I would say

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 this, and I hope that those people -- 2 lobbyists and individuals involved as social 3 workers who are not licensed -- understand the 4 rubber has to hit the road. We cannot have 5 individuals who are there who are getting 6 waivers who are not fully trained under the 7 laws. We're dealing with individuals who are 8 fragile and need the utmost of professional 9 care. 10 So as they say, one last time, I'm 11 going to vote to extend the waivers to 2013. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 13 Stavisky, to explain her vote. 14 SENATOR STAVISKY: Thank you, 15 Senator LaValle, because I happen to agree 16 with you. 17 This has been hanging around since 18 2002. First of all, this bill is a result of 19 negotiations not just with the Governor's 20 office but also the stakeholders. They have 21 participated in extensive discussions. 22 The first question at the budget 23 hearing that I asked the Commissioner of 24 Education is "When are you going to resolve 25 the issue involving the licensure of social

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 workers, et cetera?" As recently as half an 2 hour ago, I explained to the State Education 3 Department that they have to resolve this 4 issue. It's time. It's time we resolved it, 5 it's time we showed some concern for the 6 consumers. They are our clients. 7 And hopefully meetings will 8 continue. They've assured me that meetings 9 will continue and they will continue to work 10 cooperatively with the various stakeholders. 11 And the difference with this bill 12 is they are required to give us progress 13 reports as we proceed. There's a progress 14 report due in July of next year, and we're 15 going to hold them to it. 16 Thank you, Madam President. I vote 17 aye. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Are 19 there any other Senators wishing to explain 20 their vote? 21 Seeing none, announce the results. 22 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 23 Calendar Number 552, absent from voting: 24 Senator Montgomery. Excused, Senator Morahan. 25 Ayes, 60. Nays, 0.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 2 bill is passed. 3 The Secretary will read. 4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 5 554, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 6 Print 7846, an act making appropriations for 7 the support of government. 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: 9 Explanation. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 11 Kruger, an explanation has been requested. 12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you, 13 Madam President. 14 Today the Governor's emergency 15 extender bill, the seventh, provides for the 16 support of government for $4.2 billion in 17 All Funds appropriation and $8.49 million in 18 the General Fund appropriation that will run 19 through May 23rd. 20 The difference with this bill from 21 previous extenders is that there are no 22 furloughs for state workers, pursuant to a TRO 23 which was issued in federal court last week, 24 and there is no longer language omitting the 25 4 percent salary increases for state workers

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 pursuant to that same TRO. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 3 DeFrancisco. 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 5 Senator Kruger yield to a question, please. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 7 Kruger, will you yield for a question? 8 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Or a series 9 of questions. 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Not 11 tonight. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 13 Kruger yields. 14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Since the 15 last extender, since we were here a week ago, 16 have there been any three-way negotiations 17 between the leaders of the Senate -- Senator 18 Sampson -- the Assembly -- Speaker Silver -- 19 and the Governor? 20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: No, there 21 haven't been. But the good news is that there 22 are public negotiations tomorrow, three-way 23 negotiations at 11:00 a.m. Five-way, I'm 24 sorry. 25 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Since last

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 week, were there any meetings of staff of the 2 three leadership concerning not the extenders, 3 concerning the budget itself? 4 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes. 5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: And were 6 those -- 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 8 DeFrancisco. 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would 10 Senator Kruger yield to another question? 11 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 12 Kruger, do you continue to yield? 13 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 14 you, Madam President, yes. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Thank 16 you. 17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: And were 18 those discussions between the staffs of the 19 majority parties and the Governor only? 20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes. 21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: All right. 22 And would Senator Kruger yield to another 23 question? 24 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 25 Kruger, do you yield?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, Madam 2 President. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Yes. 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 5 Kruger, were any issues resolved in those 6 negotiations or discussions between the staffs 7 of the majority parties and the Governor's 8 office? 9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 10 you, Madam President, "resolution" I guess is 11 a broad statement. But negotiations and 12 discussions continue. 13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, would 14 Senator Kruger yield to another question. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 16 Kruger? 17 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, I 18 would, Madam President. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 20 Kruger yields. 21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 22 Kruger, you say there's a five-way public 23 meeting tomorrow. Who called that meeting, if 24 you know? 25 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: The

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Governor. 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Senator 3 Kruger, would you yield to another question? 4 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, Madam 5 President. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 7 Kruger yields. 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Do you know 9 whether or not that meeting is the occasion 10 for which our leader of this house, Senator 11 Sampson, of the majority party, is going to 12 announce the membership of the conference 13 committees and also the schedule for public 14 conference committees of the membership who 15 are also part of this Senate? 16 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 17 you, Madam President, the meeting will be a 18 public one. And I guess we will at that time 19 learn the substance of that meeting. 20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Last 21 question, Senator Kruger, if you'd yield, 22 please. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 24 Kruger? 25 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes, Madam

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 President. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 3 Kruger continues to yield. 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: In your 5 meetings that you've had among the majority 6 party that runs the Senate, were you given any 7 information that would lead you to believe 8 that tomorrow at this five-way public meeting, 9 such as it will be, whether there will be an 10 attempt on behalf of the Senate Majority 11 Leader to get a schedule for conference 12 committees and name members to each public 13 conference committee? Do you know, from your 14 private discussions or public discussions with 15 your leader, is that his intent? 16 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 17 you, Madam President, as I said and I will 18 reiterate, the public meeting is an 19 opportunity to create the public forum. The 20 outcome of that public forum will be open for 21 all of us to review and see. 22 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: One other 23 question I just thought of. Senator Kruger, 24 would you yield? 25 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Absolutely.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Would you, 2 as the Senate Finance chair, and certainly 3 someone who wants to show that this body and 4 the majority party in this body is following 5 the laws of the State of New York, would you 6 recommend to your leader on behalf of the 7 entire Senate, both sides of the aisle, that 8 he request at that public meeting and be 9 prepared to provide to the other members of 10 the public meeting a schedule for public 11 conference committees and the membership of 12 each of those conference committees? 13 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 14 you, Madam President, I think that the 15 majority in the Assembly as well as the 16 majority here has heard very, very loud and 17 clear the messages that have been articulated 18 concerning the idea of conference committees. 19 I look forward to the outcome of the five-way 20 negotiations tomorrow. 21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: On the 22 bill. 23 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you, 24 Madam President. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 DeFrancisco, on the bill. 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, this 3 is the seventh extender, and I'm happy to 4 report that the answers were as nonresponsive 5 as the other six. And I shouldn't say "happy" 6 to respond; it's just sad, actually. 7 And I don't want to be flippant 8 about it, because right now we're in a 9 situation where it's truly embarrassing. It's 10 truly embarrassing to be a member of to body. 11 And it's the first time I have ever said it 12 and hopefully the last time I will ever say 13 it. 14 You know, we go back to our 15 districts and we're all painted with the same 16 broad brush. And unfortunately, the members 17 of the general public do not understand that 18 there are some of us who are doing everything 19 that we possibly can, especially on this side 20 of the aisle, to get these open meetings 21 going, to get answers, to try to get results, 22 to try to get movement so that these dire 23 problems don't continue. 24 And this is not a 25 Republican/Democrat thing. It's obviously

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Republican/Democrat in this house, because our 2 side of the aisle is trying to get answers, 3 trying to get public meetings; the other side 4 is totally nonresponsive, the majority 5 Democrats. 6 But there's a Democrat who happens 7 to have a very important position in this 8 state who has been sending out red flags for 9 the last seven weeks. And let me read you 10 some of the latest red flags that State 11 Comptroller DiNapoli is sending to us. 12 His office's analysis of the report 13 card of the Department of Education indicates 14 that up to 285 school districts may have 15 insufficient unrestricted fund balances to 16 offset the payments that the Governor is 17 withholding by June. 18 Now, think of that. Doesn't that 19 embarrass anybody on the other side of the 20 aisle? There's school district votes for 21 budgets tomorrow. How do you in good faith go 22 to the district without knowing not only 23 what's in store for you in the future but 24 whether you're going to be paid for what's due 25 presently?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 2 Krueger, why do you rise? 3 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Will 4 Senator DeFrancisco yield for a question? 5 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 6 DeFrancisco, will you yield for a question? 7 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I will be 8 happy to yield as soon as I complete my entire 9 statement. I will answer as many questions as 10 you want, rather than have a disjointed 11 statement about this whole situation. 12 Comptroller DiNapoli also says any 13 school district that has already borrowed 14 money against the receipt of June state aid -- 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 16 Kruger, why do you rise? 17 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Will the 18 Senator yield to a question? 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: As soon as 20 I'm done with my statement, I'll be more than 21 happy to. 22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 24 DeFrancisco. 25 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Any school

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 district that has already borrowed against the 2 receipt of June state aid could be at risk of 3 default on its revenue anticipation notes. 4 Are you kidding me? Think about 5 that. And I wouldn't be standing up here if 6 we got some report one of these weeks that 7 something is happening. Furloughs, the 8 Governor is going to have. No meetings, even 9 though furloughs are anticipated. We get a 10 reprieve, the state does, from a court that's 11 got a stay temporarily. So now the Governor 12 is talking about permanent layoffs, not just 13 furloughs. School districts can't -- but not 14 even a meeting. 15 Now, tomorrow's meeting, let me 16 make a prediction. There's going to be a 17 five-way meeting that nothing is going to 18 happen, a public display of nothing. Senator 19 Kruger wouldn't even carry the message, the 20 Senate Finance chair, to his leader to 21 advocate for at that meeting, these public 22 meetings, so we could get some type of 23 progress. 24 State aid delays are having an 25 impact on long-term credit ratings for school

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 districts as well. Recently, Fitch Ratings 2 downgraded the State Dormitory Authority's 3 school district revenue bond financing program 4 from A plus to AA minus. That means dollars 5 more has to be spent on various bonds. 6 According to School District 7 Association reports, most districts assumed 8 the Executive Budget aid levels in their 9 proposed budgets. We don't know if that 10 assumption is a valid one either. 11 It's not only school districts. 12 We've talked before about contractors, where 13 people are not being hired, others are being 14 laid off -- when we've got unemployment rates 15 that are absolutely unacceptable. And we're 16 continuing not to have a budget, so we have 17 increased those numbers. 18 In some of our districts it's 19 actually embarrassing what these numbers are. 20 Jefferson County, St. Lawrence County, Oswego 21 County, 10.4, 10.7, 10.8 percent. Those 22 numbers could be affected in Senator 23 Aubertine's district if we start hiring back 24 contractors who have employees of contractors 25 who have contracts from the State of New York.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 All we've got to do is have a budget. All 2 we've got to do is have a budget. 3 I can go on to the other districts 4 that are almost as embarrassing, if not more 5 so. But if you take a look at the news 6 yesterday -- and the news yesterday was about 7 55 parks and historic sites closing. Now, I 8 don't know if we did it today or not -- it was 9 held, Senator Serrano's bill was held 10 directing the government to keep the parks 11 open, with no funding behind it. That's a 12 great way to cover up the real problem. The 13 real problem is getting a budget so we can 14 keep the parks open. 15 And there's parks closing all over 16 the state, they're going to close, closing all 17 over the state, in Senator Foley's district 18 and Owen Johnson's district. I can't 19 pronounce it -- Connetquot River State Park? 20 Closed weekdays. In Senator Stewart-Cousins' 21 district, Philipse Manor Historic Site. 22 Saratoga Region -- Senator Breslin -- John 23 Boyd Thacher State Park. Schuyler Mansion 24 Historic Site, Senator Breslin. 25 Central New York seems to get a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 greater share of these, I'm not quite sure 2 why, but Chittenango Falls Park, Chittenango 3 Falls Park, a magnificent park in Senator 4 Valesky's district. It's closed. You see TV 5 shows on the news about locks being put on the 6 doors and people are complaining they can't go 7 see these magnificent falls any longer. 8 Because we are the embarrassment of the 9 country. Chittenango Falls State Park. 10 Also in Senator Valesky's district, 11 Helen McNitt State Park, Old Erie Canal State 12 Park. I mean, these things are important to 13 Central New York. Springbrook Greens State 14 Park. 15 Senator Aubertine's district has 16 quite a few that I'm sure there are people in 17 his district aren't too happy about. Selkirk 18 Shores State Park, closing the swimming beach. 19 Close the park, Canoe Island State Park, 20 Senator Aubertine. Cedar Island State Park, 21 Aubertine. Eel Weir State Park, Aubertine. 22 And there's five others. Some of them I can't 23 even pronounce. But I know the people in his 24 district can pronounce them. 25 Doesn't it embarrass anybody that

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 this is happening and we do nothing? If you 2 want to do an extender, at least show that 3 something's happening. And to announce a 4 leader's meeting that we know what's going to 5 be accomplished there as the progress, 6 potential progress, when we're voting on an 7 extender today, is truly, truly not an answer. 8 And I guess my point is -- and I 9 saw one brave member from the majority 10 conference tell it like it is on YNN News. 11 And that member, when asked what's going on, 12 "I don't know what's going on. We're merely 13 pawns here in this particular area." Patsies. 14 Not pawns, patsies. That's even better. 15 Because pawns move every once in a while. But 16 patsies, they don't move, they just wait for 17 direction. 18 And that was a great word that that 19 brave Senator from the majority party -- well, 20 let me ask one thing. I would hope that all 21 the majority members voted no again on this 22 extender. And I'm asking for some former 23 patsies to come forward and to just say enough 24 is enough, we'll vote on a one-day extender -- 25 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Krueger, why do you rise? 2 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I'm sorry, 3 is it appropriate for a member of the Senate 4 to refer to his colleagues as patsies on the 5 floor of the Senate? 6 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 7 DeFrancisco, unless you'd like to withdraw the 8 comment "patsies," I'd just ask you to please 9 keep it civil. 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Okay, I 11 will not join in the criticism of one of the 12 majority Senators who used that term about the 13 Senators, and I'll use my own term. 14 I would hope that one of the former 15 enablers who enabled this process to go 16 forward, with nothing at all happening, 17 nothing at all happening -- without someone 18 saying, you know, enough is enough, what are 19 we doing here? Enough is enough. And have a 20 one-day extender. Let's amend this to a 21 one-day extender. Let's say no, let the 22 Governor come to a one-day extender, and let's 23 see what happens tomorrow at this magnificent 24 meeting. Let's see if there's open conference 25 committee meetings that are scheduled. Let's

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 see whether that is happening. 2 And then we're only enabling a one 3 day to see what progress is being made. And 4 if there's progress, maybe a week extender 5 after that. 6 Short of that, if no one's willing 7 to that on the other side of the aisle, I 8 would hope that somebody says here today, on 9 the other side of the aisle: Enough is 10 enough, we're going to do it one more week. 11 That's it, because we're going to be in June. 12 We're going to listen to the state 13 comptroller, and when June comes around, it's 14 time to pay the piper. We're going to give 15 you one more week, leaders, to do what you're 16 supposed to do -- namely, lead -- and we'll go 17 with the extender, but next Monday -- and 18 state it publicly today -- I'm not going to 19 vote for it. 20 And that way you're sending a clear 21 message that you've got a week to do 22 something. And if you come back and do 23 nothing, it's your fault, not ours, that 24 either government shuts down or we have some 25 type of progress.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 So, Madam President, I would urge 2 all of my colleagues on both sides of the 3 aisle to vote no on this extender. As an 4 alternative, seek a one-day extender from the 5 Governor, who had the foresight to call 6 meetings tomorrow -- because our legislative 7 leaders apparently aren't talking with each 8 other -- and see what the progress is. And 9 then go forward from there based upon 10 progress, not extenders based upon inactivity. 11 Thank you, Madam President. I'll 12 answer any questions that Senators Krueger or 13 Kruger are interested in asking me. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 15 Carl Kruger. 16 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you, 17 Madam President. 18 Senator, what year were you elected 19 to the Senate? 20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I was 21 elected -- my first term was '93. 22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: '93. So 23 you were here in '95? 24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I was here 25 in '95. I was.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: You were 2 here in '95. Do you realize that you voted 3 for 97 extenders between 1995 and 2006? 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: You know, I 5 don't know what the numbers are. But let me 6 explain something on this answer. 7 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: No, I'm 8 just asking a question. 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, I'm 10 going to explain the answer. I'm not -- 11 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: 12 Gentlemen -- Senators, please direct your 13 comments through the chair. 14 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 15 you, Madam President. 16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I'm sorry. 17 Seriously, I don't know what the 18 numbers are, and I'm sure you could find other 19 examples of extenders being done. 20 And let me tell you something that 21 I learned long ago. The fact that someone did 22 something that was not the prudent thing to do 23 in the past in no way justifies a current 24 situation that we have now. And in each one 25 of the years -- I'm sure you're going to go

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 through every year, and I'd be more than happy 2 to answer years individually. 3 But I thought that you might want 4 to know that in none of the years that I voted 5 for an extender, or anybody else since 1993 6 did, was the state in a financial crisis. 7 Never was the state in a financial crisis 8 which required a situation where furloughs 9 were being done, where budgets of school 10 districts were in the situation where they're 11 being cut -- because every one of those years, 12 there was always increases. 13 So I think it's a little different 14 situation. And the past certainly doesn't 15 justify the inaction today in a time of 16 crisis. 17 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Okay. So 18 just to characterize the statement, then you 19 acted imprudently in the past, since you were 20 elected in 1995, 97 times. 21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I -- no, I 22 didn't say imprudently 97 times. In some 23 instances they were imprudent votes, I agree 24 with you. 25 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: --

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 [inaudible] -- 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: And those 3 votes -- those votes -- 4 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: -- 5 [inaudible] -- 6 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: 7 Senators -- 8 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 9 you, Madam President. 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: May I 11 finish? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 13 DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield to 14 Senator Kruger? 15 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Unlike 16 Senator Kruger, I'd like to finish an answer 17 and give some information that's worth 18 hearing. So I'd like to finish my answer 19 before I go to the next one. May I finish my 20 answer? 21 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Yes. 22 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: You know, 23 in prior years this imprudence was not limited 24 to one party, as it apparently is now. 25 Because in those extenders, virtually everyone

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 that I remember -- it was bipartisan extender 2 over the periods of time when those extenders 3 took place. 4 This is a different situation. 5 It's one party in control of the entire state 6 government, which also never was the case in 7 the past. And there was always some checks 8 and balances. Now there's one party in 9 charge, they're totally in charge, we're a 10 fiscal disaster, according to the comptroller. 11 And so there was imprudence to share on both 12 sides of the aisle during those years. 13 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: So now, 14 speaking of imprudence -- through you, Madam 15 President -- Senator, do you know the growth 16 in spending during the time that you were in 17 the majority and voting on those budgets? 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: You know, I 19 really don't. And -- 20 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Well, let 21 me tell you. 22 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Well, let 23 me -- 24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 25 you, Madam President.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: May I 2 finish? 3 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 4 DeFrancisco, finish, and then Senator Kruger. 5 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President, 6 point of order. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: What is 8 your point of order? 9 SENATOR LIBOUS: Is the 10 questioning of Senator Kruger germane to this 11 year's extender? I mean, what happened prior 12 to this year doesn't appear to be germane to 13 what's going on right now. I mean -- 14 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: 15 Senator -- Senator Libous, I have granted -- I 16 have granted Senator DeFrancisco tremendous 17 leeway. 18 SENATOR LIBOUS: Is there -- am I 19 being heckled, Madam President? 20 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: No. 21 You're being responded to, by me. 22 I have granted Senator DeFrancisco 23 tremendous leeway with respect to his comments 24 where he read out the names of parks and the 25 amounts of money that they wouldn't be getting

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 when they are in fact not in this extender 2 bill. So I may not allow -- 3 SENATOR LIBOUS: I believe that's 4 germane to this year's discussion, because I 5 believe as of today parks are being closed 6 throughout the state. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: 8 Senator -- Senator Libous, that was my 9 decision to make. I allowed him tremendous 10 leeway. Now I'm going to allow these two 11 gentlemen the leeway to continue their 12 discussion. 13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President, 14 I will sit down, but before I sit down I just 15 want to make a final statement that debating 16 previous budgets that are history in my 17 opinion are not germane to the extension of 18 government for one more week. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 20 Kruger, you may continue with your 21 questioning. 22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Thank you 23 very much, Madam President. 24 So just to recapitulate, my 25 question to you, Senator, was do you know the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 rate of spending during the time that you 2 voted on those budgets and the imprudent move 3 of the extenders. 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Those are 5 two different questions. 6 If you're talking about the rate of 7 growth of the budget, I don't know. But I 8 would say that they are totally irrelevant, 9 because none of those years were years where 10 revenues were declining, where the economy was 11 sunk, where we're getting over 10 percent 12 unemployment. Those were years where there 13 was a lot of extra money, and all of which the 14 Democratic conference was more than happy to 15 accommodate the increase in spending -- in 16 fact, used to propose amendments looking for 17 more spending. 18 So I can't tell you either how much 19 spending occurred or how much more spending 20 the Democrats wanted that the Republicans in 21 the Senate chose not to accept. 22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 23 you, Madam President, for the record, just so 24 that we can have a bird's-eye view of what 25 we're talking about, we're talking about a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 rate of growth from $54 billion when the 2 Senator was elected to $116 billion. He 3 supported a 114 percent increase in spending 4 in this house. 5 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Is that a 6 question? 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 8 Kruger, are you asking Senator DeFrancisco -- 9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: No, that's 10 a statement. Because since the Senator didn't 11 have the information, I wanted to make that 12 for the record. 13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Excuse 14 me -- 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 16 -- 17 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Excuse me, 18 I think I have the floor and he's asking 19 questions. And if he wants to make 20 statements, then that should be at a later 21 time. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 23 DeFrancisco -- 24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 25 you, Madam President --

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Yes. 2 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: -- would 3 the Senator yield for another question? 4 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 5 DeFrancisco, will you continue to yield? 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Absolutely. 7 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Do you know 8 the rate of inflation during the time that you 9 were elected to current? 10 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I really 11 don't. But you know what's kind of 12 interesting -- I really don't know the rate of 13 inflation. But again, I keep saying that that 14 was in years where the state was flush with 15 dollars. In fact, others wanted to spend 16 more. 17 And it was also during the years 18 where Senator Kruger decided he wanted to join 19 with us Republicans and take the benefit of a 20 lu-lu so that he had a chairmanship of a 21 committee, he could make more money -- 22 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 23 DeFrancisco, that is out of order. 24 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: -- and to 25 join us in this -- it's out of order?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 2 DeFrancisco, that was out of order. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: That's out 4 of order. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Yes. 6 That has nothing to do with the bill before 7 the house. 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Nor does 9 the discussion about prior years. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 11 Klein. 12 SENATOR KLEIN: Madam President, 13 I just -- you know, as a point of order, I 14 mean, you know, this debate is going in all 15 kinds of directions. I would really 16 appreciate you limit Senator DeFrancisco to 17 this specific bill. 18 I think Senator Kruger has asked 19 some questions that are certainly germane to 20 budget issues. But I think in order for us to 21 proceed, you know, on this floor and uphold 22 the dignity of the Senate, it's important for 23 us not to talk about personal issues that have 24 nothing to do with the bill at hand. Or the 25 extender at hand.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President, 2 point of order. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: I'll 4 rule on Senator Klein's point of order first, 5 Senator Libous. 6 SENATOR LIBOUS: My point of 7 order is in reference to Senator Klein's point 8 of order, Madam President. I'm quite confused 9 as to what Senator Klein's point of order was. 10 SENATOR KLEIN: One at a time, 11 Senator Libous, okay? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 13 Klein, your point of order is actually well 14 taken. 15 And what I would instruct both 16 Senator DeFrancisco and Senator Kruger to do 17 is try and limit your questions and your 18 comments to the bill that is before us, not to 19 the past history of the house or the state. 20 If we do could do that and be constructive, 21 because we have a lot to discuss this evening. 22 Senator Kruger, do -- 23 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I had the 24 floor. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Excuse

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 me. Senator Libous. 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I'm sorry, 3 I didn't bring up past years, I just want you 4 to know that. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 6 Libous. 7 SENATOR LIBOUS: Point of order, 8 Madam President. 9 So did I hear you say they would 10 limit their questions not to past history but 11 to the extender that's on the floor? 12 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: That is 13 what I said, Senator. 14 SENATOR LIBOUS: We would have no 15 problem with that, Madam President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Thank 17 you. 18 Senator DeFrancisco, do you 19 continue to yield to Senator Kruger? 20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Uh ... yes. 21 (Laughter.) 22 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Well, if we 23 can avoid personal attacks and deal with 24 substantive areas, then I would like to 25 continue.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: More than 2 happy to. 3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Senator, do 4 you know what the current rate of inflation is 5 in terms of our spending plan? 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Your 7 Honor -- Your Honor. 8 (Laughter.) 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Madam 10 President -- Madam President, I thought we 11 were talking about this particular extender. 12 This has nothing to do with rates of 13 inflation, this is just an extender of payment 14 of certain things. 15 This sounds like a debate on the 16 budget itself. And these are all relevant 17 discussions; we'd love to have this debate on 18 the floor or in conference committees. But as 19 far as the rate of inflation, it has nothing 20 to do with the extender. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 22 Kruger, in an effort to clarify, could you 23 please connect it to another question that is 24 connected to the bill that's before the house? 25 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Well, yes,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 I'll try to do that, Madam President. 2 When we're talking about the rate 3 of inflation, past or current, you're talking 4 about a spending plan. How do you view the 5 rate of inflation today as it relates to the 6 spending plan? 7 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Could I 8 please get a clarification of what spending 9 plan he's referring to? 10 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 11 Kruger. 12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: The 13 extender. 14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I haven't 15 done a calculation of the spending plan of 16 this extender. The only thing I can really 17 talk about is the rate of inflation I think 18 was under 2 percent last year, and we 19 increased spending by $10 billion -- we didn't 20 vote for it, the Republicans -- and taxes by 21 8 billion. So that's the most glaring example 22 I have of a budget that is so out of whack 23 with the rate of inflation. 24 Now, I'm not quite sure what 25 they're going to come up with this year in

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 private meetings, but that should be discussed 2 definitely on the floor once we see what we're 3 debating, what the budget's going to be for 4 this year, what the budget plan is. 5 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 6 you, Madam President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 8 DeFrancisco -- 9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: I guess in 10 order to put into focus the Senator's issues 11 concerning this extender, the majority in this 12 house and our attempts to reach a budget 13 agreement, we have to look at the mechanism 14 and the methodology that brought us to this 15 point. 16 And what brought us to this point 17 was a budget passed by the Republican majority 18 to the tune that the state spending surpassed 19 the rate of inflation by 67 percent. That's 20 why we're here today faced with the dilemma 21 that we are. 22 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Point of 23 order. Is this a question? I think I still 24 was on the floor. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Kruger, is there a question you have for 2 Senator DeFrancisco? 3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yes. The 4 question is when we want to talk about the 5 different spending plans and we want to talk 6 about this particular extender, what was the 7 rate of spending in the Senate minority plan 8 during those same years? 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I'm sorry, 10 I missed that. 11 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 12 you, Madam President. Once again, in order to 13 understand the extender of today and the need 14 to -- the position that we're in, let's look 15 at what was the rate of spending in the plan 16 that was proposed in the present Senate 17 minority plan that you projected. Where is 18 your road map for change? 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: The road 20 map for change will be fully discussed in the 21 context of the two budget proposals of the 22 Assembly and the Senate, in open, public 23 conference committees, as soon as the Democrat 24 majority gives us that opportunity. 25 As far as this extender is

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 concerned, this extender is not a financial 2 plan. This extender has no financial plan, as 3 did the Senate budget that was passed a few 4 months ago -- or a month ago, two months ago. 5 I lose track of time when I'm having so much 6 fun. 7 But those questions are relevant in 8 the context of a financial plan that we would 9 be welcome to debate once we've got the 10 opportunity to do that. 11 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 12 you, Madam President, would the Senator yield 13 to a question. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 15 DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield? 16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 18 DeFrancisco yields. 19 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: At the 20 beginning of this process we passed 21 resolutions, which was categorized as a road 22 map to get us to a budget. Would you explain 23 to me what the Senate minority -- and you, as 24 its ranking member of the Finance Committee -- 25 used as the basis for your budgetary planning?

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: You know, 2 again, I'm a little bit confused because there 3 is no financial plan, either in this 4 resolution or in the budget resolution that 5 was passed in this house. So I'm not so sure 6 how I can compare the efficacy of our plan 7 with a plan that doesn't exist. 8 And with respect to another point, 9 I think that each one of those budgets that 10 you're criticizing that happened in the past 11 all were, by the way, balanced. And the 12 deficit became a deficit -- because we have to 13 balance the budget every year. The deficit 14 became a deficit last year when we increased 15 the spending and so forth. 16 In addition, you keep saying that 17 the Republicans did this, the Republicans did 18 that. I can tell you chapter and verse, for 19 the years from 1995 to the present year, how 20 many negative votes on the budgets there were. 21 And at most, there were eight negative votes 22 on the budgets that were all balanced. So I 23 think both parties believed they were balanced 24 and those discussions took place and the 25 budgets were passed in a balanced fashion.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 The difference this year and last 2 year was that we had open conference 3 committees -- the law said that we had to do 4 it in 2008, and we did it. And we also had a 5 balanced budget in 2008. The imbalance 6 occurred in 2009, and the imbalance continues 7 in this year because these are the situations 8 that we're dealing with presently. 9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 10 you, Madam President. I think that -- you 11 know, now I'm getting confused. Because as a 12 practical matter, those budgets were 13 structurally never in balance; otherwise, we 14 wouldn't be here today. 15 But getting back to my question to 16 the Senator, if he would continue to yield. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 18 DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield? 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I will 20 continue to yield. And, in doing so, remind 21 Senator Kruger that he voted yes on every 22 single one of the budgets that he's 23 criticizing. 24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 25 you, Madam President, as you did as well.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I 2 acknowledged that earlier. 3 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Now, just 4 for my own clarification and for that of the 5 house, can the Senator please indicate and 6 explain the minority's spending plan for this 7 current budget? 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: There's -- 9 we don't have a -- we have recommendations for 10 cuts. And would you like me to go through 11 them right now? I'd be more than happy to. 12 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: You want to 13 go through your series of cuts? 14 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: We have 15 recommendations for cuts, absolutely. 16 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Yeah, I 17 would like to hear them. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: And we've 19 mentioned those publicly and the like, and I'd 20 be more than happy to go through it. How 21 that's relevant to this extender is beyond me, 22 but I'd be more than happy to do that. 23 But in lieu of that, I would 24 strongly suggest that if you want to engage in 25 this debate, let's do it according to the 2007

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 law. Break us down, the leadership, into 2 separate conference committees, we deal with 3 each aspect of the budget. We'll give you our 4 opinions, you give us yours, the public will 5 see whether they want to increase spending or 6 reduce spending. 7 But if you want me to go forward, 8 I'll start going right now. 9 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: Through 10 you, Madam President, it's -- on the bill. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: On the 12 bill. Senator Kruger on the bill. 13 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: It's 14 obvious to me as well as it is -- 15 SENATOR LIBOUS: Excuse me, Madam 16 President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 18 Libous, why do you rise? 19 SENATOR LIBOUS: Well, I was 20 going to say that Senator DeFrancisco has the 21 floor, but I guess he just relinquished it. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 23 Kruger, on the bill. 24 SENATOR CARL KRUGER: It's 25 obvious to me, as it is to everyone in this

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 house that wants to listen, that the reason 2 why we're here today and the reason why we're 3 in the position that we're in is because of 4 runaway spending -- spending that was never in 5 balance, spending that was never reflective of 6 a spending plan, but was rather an opportunity 7 to create debt. 8 And the debt grew from $31 billion, 9 when the Senator was elected, to $54 billion, 10 causing a debt load attributable to each and 11 every man, woman and child in New York to soar 12 from $1,774 to $2,675. 13 The point that I'm making here, the 14 point that I'm making here, Madam President, 15 is a very simple one. Today we are faced with 16 a financial dilemma. Rather than relegating 17 our role, as the Senator did today, to 18 finger-pointing and to name-calling, let's 19 deal with the substance of the issue at hand. 20 We wait for and eagerly seek a plan 21 by the Senate Republican minority that 22 reflects their road map to fiscal integrity, 23 something that to this day they have failed to 24 provide to us. 25 Thank you.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 2 L. Krueger, on the bill. 3 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: I'm sorry, 4 I actually would like to ask Senator 5 DeFrancisco some questions. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 7 DeFrancisco, will you yield for Senator 8 Krueger? 9 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, I 10 will. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 12 DeFrancisco yields. 13 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you 14 very much. 15 Senator DeFrancisco, I believe you 16 said that you won't be voting for this budget 17 extender earlier. Can you tell me what the 18 impact will be on healthcare in the state if 19 we don't have a budget or a budget extender to 20 continue spending in this state? 21 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes, I 22 will. The impact would be that the Governor 23 will -- by us not voting for this extender, it 24 will force the Majority Leader of this house, 25 the Speaker of the other house and the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Governor -- well, at least the two leaders of 2 the houses to sit down, because otherwise 3 government is going to stop and all the dire 4 things that you want me to talk about will 5 happen. 6 If we vote no, we could have a 7 one-day extender, as I suggested earlier, we 8 could have a 12-hour extender, do extenders as 9 long as we're having progress. And that way 10 we, as the rank and file, will have a 11 legitimate role in the process, in moving 12 things forward rather, than rather than giving 13 blanket, enabling legislation on a weekly 14 basis to do nothing. 15 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Madam 16 President, if through you Senator DeFrancisco 17 would continue to yield. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 19 DeFrancisco, do you continue to yield? 20 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 22 DeFrancisco yields. 23 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: It's 24 actually ten to 8:00 at night, and this is the 25 only extender bill we have a message of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 necessity from. And either the other house 2 has passed it or is in the process of passing 3 it. 4 So your proposal is interesting, 5 but objectively, if we don't pass this 6 extender, does government not shut down? 7 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: No, because 8 we can get another extender bill for another 9 day in a matter of hours. 10 The Governor I don't think is going 11 to want to shut down government. I would 12 guess he'd probably welcome some movement, 13 because he's been calling on the leaders of 14 each house to get something going. He's been 15 threatening furloughs. He actually acted upon 16 furloughs. Now he's threatening layoffs. I 17 would think he'd probably welcome some type of 18 leadership in one of the houses to get 19 something done other than mere inaction. 20 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you, 21 Madam -- oh, excuse me, Mr. President. Sorry, 22 there was a sex change while I wasn't looking. 23 Excuse me, I'm so sorry. Excuse me, 24 Mr. President. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT CRAIG JOHNSON:

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 I could respond in all sorts of ways. 2 Senator Krueger. 3 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 4 On the bill, Mr. President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT CRAIG JOHNSON: 6 Senator Krueger, on the bill. 7 SENATOR LIZ KRUEGER: Thank you. 8 Well, I don't know if the Governor 9 had a different plan, because he didn't offer 10 us a different plan, he gave us this bill, 11 this extender bill. I can have as many 12 frustrations as every other Senator on this 13 floor. But again, for the record, when you 14 don't vote for budget extenders, you vote to 15 shut down government. 16 Michigan had a shutdown in 2007. 17 It wasn't very pretty. Pennsylvania had a 18 shutdown in 2007. New Jersey had a shutdown 19 in 2006, Minnesota in 2005, Tennessee in 2002. 20 Every state's story would be different. But I 21 want to tell the story for this one week in 22 our state if we don't pass an extender bill. 23 It will mean that the state doesn't 24 pay out $1.85 billion to healthcare providers, 25 including 250 hospitals, 400 nursing homes, as

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 well as clinics, doctors and pharmacies. 2 That's what's in this extender bill. 3 If we shut down government, payroll 4 and payments for agencies relating to public 5 safety -- because again, in the furlough bill 6 last week, even though many of us didn't love 7 it but we voted for it, it would have exempted 8 public safety workers. In a shutdown of 9 government, there is no exemption. Everybody 10 is furloughed. 11 Which would mean there would be no 12 staff at 67 correctional facilities and more 13 than 5500 state troopers and other officials 14 of the Division of State Police and the 15 Division of Criminal Justice would not be paid 16 to be working or to come to their jobs. 17 If we shut down government without 18 passing this extender bill, then the judiciary 19 will no longer operate in 1300 courtrooms 20 throughout the state, not to mention the 21 thousands of support personnel. 22 If we shut down government by not 23 passing the budget extender bill that has been 24 given us by the Governor and approved to be 25 taken up on this floor with a message of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 necessity, the Tax Department will not collect 2 revenue, which will put the state into a 3 deeper economic weak-cash position. 4 In 2009, for the same period, if we 5 assume approximately the same money, 6 $850 million would not be collected next week. 7 And in fact since the Tax Department also 8 offers tax refunds, particularly heavy at this 9 time of year, if we shut down government, if 10 we don't pass an extender tonight, for this 11 same period, assuming equivalent numbers to 12 2009, 72,000 taxpayers are not going to 13 receive their income tax refund next week. 14 If we shut down government for all 15 the concerns we have about education -- and 16 you're right to have concerns about our 17 schools, although, as was pointed out, we've 18 played this game with 97 extenders between '95 19 and 2006. But our shutting down funding for 20 education would have a much greater impact 21 than another week's delay. 22 We wouldn't be having environmental 23 laws operating. Our transportation systems 24 wouldn't be functioning. Our Agriculture and 25 Markets Department would not exist.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 I think you get the point. Even if 2 you don't like that we are not completing the 3 budget, if we don't pass the extender, we're 4 shutting down government. There is almost 5 nothing that would be worse for the State of 6 New York tomorrow morning. 7 I definitely am recommending a yes 8 vote. Thank you, Mr. President. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT CRAIG JOHNSON: 10 Thank you, Senator Krueger. 11 Senator Klein. 12 SENATOR KLEIN: Mr. President, 13 upon unanimous consent, I ask that the roll be 14 opened for each of the two bills on the 15 supplemental calendar so that Senator Duane 16 can vote on each bill. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT CRAIG JOHNSON: 18 The Secretary will open the roll for each 19 bill, please. 20 Read the last section on Calendar 21 Number 554. 22 THE SECRETARY: Section 17. This 23 act shall take effect immediately. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT CRAIG JOHNSON: 25 Call the roll.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 (The Secretary called the roll.) 2 ACTING PRESIDENT CRAIG JOHNSON: 3 Senator Duane. 4 SENATOR DUANE: Aye. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT CRAIG JOHNSON: 6 Senator Duane, aye on the bill. 7 The Secretary will please call the 8 roll on Calendar 555. 9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 10 555, by the Senate Committee on Rules, Senate 11 Print 7847, an act to amend the State Finance 12 Law. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT CRAIG JOHNSON: 14 Read the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT CRAIG JOHNSON: 18 Call the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 ACTING PRESIDENT CRAIG JOHNSON: 21 Senator Duane. 22 SENATOR DUANE: Aye. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT CRAIG JOHNSON: 24 Senator Duane is aye. 25 Please withdraw the rolls for each

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 of those two bills. 2 Calendar Number 554 is again before 3 the house. 4 Senator Bonacic. 5 SENATOR BONACIC: Thank you, 6 Mr. President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT CRAIG JOHNSON: 8 On the bill? 9 SENATOR BONACIC: On the bill. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT CRAIG JOHNSON: 11 On the bill. 12 SENATOR BONACIC: You know, this 13 is the seventh extender. And I think I got up 14 once and asked Senator Kruger, the chairman of 15 Ways and Means, a few brief questions and I 16 sat down. 17 And I want to focus the discussion, 18 if I may, on something a little different. 19 I'm not going to talk about the history of 20 past budgets, I'm not going to talk about the 21 rate of inflation, I'm not going to talk about 22 the spending of past budgets. What I am going 23 to talk -- and I'll say that this is the worst 24 recession that I have seen in my lifetime. 25 And my parents talked about the Great

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Depression in 1929, but for me it's something 2 that started in December of 2007 and has got 3 progressively worse, with a lot of pain for 4 our constituents in all aspects. 5 And there's been a lot of rhetoric 6 today about closing government. But let's 7 recognize what is real and what is factual. 8 What is factual is that the Democratic 9 leadership controls each house, the Assembly 10 and the Senate. What is factual is that our 11 Governor has given us his budget. His 12 responsibility under the State Constitution is 13 done, it's done. And it's our responsibility 14 under the State Constitution, the next step is 15 to pass a legislative budget. Which means 16 that both houses of the Democratic leadership 17 have to communicate with each other, have a 18 meeting of the minds and pass a legislative 19 budget resolution. 20 Now, that has not been done, and we 21 are in discussions of distraction. We beat 22 the Governor up. He's a lame-duck Governor, 23 his polling is down, and boy, he is a good 24 target. And what is he trying to do? By not 25 adopting a budget April 1st, the Democratic

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 leadership in both houses raises the 2 possibility of shutting government down. 3 Okay? You have that power. You have the 4 power to pass the budget on April 1st and 5 every week thereafter when we do the extenders 6 to avoid the hard decisions. 7 The Governor is trying to get your 8 attention. That's what he's trying to do. 9 He's delaying school payments. He's cutting 10 out contracts for state workers -- not for 11 state workers, for contracting on state roads, 12 layoffs. He's doing furloughs. And now he's 13 talking of layoffs. He's doing everything in 14 his power to bring the Democratic leadership 15 in both houses to pass a legislative budget 16 under the State Constitution. 17 Now, we have done this. You want 18 to talk about history, Governor Pataki didn't 19 agree with the Legislature, we had delays. We 20 came together and we did a legislative budget. 21 I don't know if you remember. But Assemblyman 22 Silver and Majority Leader Bruno, we approved 23 the budget. And we said: "Governor, we don't 24 agree with what you gave us. We're doing our 25 legislative budget."

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 But for some reason, the Democratic 2 leadership in both houses are not taking the 3 next step. Because maybe you fear what the 4 Governor may do. 5 Back then, Governor Pataki 6 exercised his line-item veto. It came back to 7 the Legislature. Some we overrode, some we 8 didn't. But we as a Legislature did our duty 9 under the State Constitution, which the 10 Democratic leadership in both houses is not 11 doing. 12 So every week there's an extender 13 and every week we want to keep government 14 going, you blame the Governor, you blame the 15 minority -- but all the power is with you to 16 do the next step under the Constitution. 17 So you can continue to beat up the 18 Governor, you can continue to talk about 19 extenders. But these hard decisions have to 20 be made. And the Democratic leadership in 21 both houses are unable to make them. That's 22 where the responsibility is. 23 So for that reason, I'm going to 24 continue to vote no on the extender. And 25 we're going to ask you, since you have all the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 power, since you have excluded all of us, 2 meaning the Republican minority in this house, 3 from participating in any public discussion -- 4 all of these back and forth between Senator 5 Kruger and Senator DeFrancisco is just another 6 distraction in not following the State 7 Constitution. 8 I'm going to vote no on the 9 extender, and I thank you, Mr. President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT CRAIG JOHNSON: 11 Thank you, Senator Bonacic. 12 Senator Nozzolio. 13 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Thank you, 14 Mr. President. On the bill. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT CRAIG JOHNSON: 16 Senator Nozzolio, on the bill. Senator 17 Nozzolio. 18 SENATOR NOZZOLIO: Mr. President 19 and my colleagues, I wish to follow up on 20 comments made by Senator Bonacic about this 21 process. 22 For weeks now, when Senator 23 DeFrancisco called upon the Senate chairman of 24 the Senate Finance Committee, Democrat Carl 25 Kruger from Brooklyn, to give us a chronicle

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 of what took place the week before, we were 2 basically insulted by his trivial comments. I 3 have not risen to speak about this until this 4 moment because my patience, I thought, would 5 be the better of me. But my constituents are 6 no longer patient. They've long since lost 7 their patience. 8 And Senator Kruger's comments about 9 budget negotiations are ongoing, when 10 questioned about the substance, would say that 11 the negotiations are very sensitive. Well, I 12 can understand that the first week. I could 13 understand it the second week. But the third 14 week, fourth week, now to the seventh week of 15 saying nothing more than that I think is an 16 insult to this house, it's an insult to the 17 discussion, and most importantly it's an 18 insult to the people of New York State. 19 Senator Liz Krueger, from 20 Manhattan, today gave us a long list of things 21 that could happen if the budget is not in 22 place for an extender. Well, maybe this 23 Legislature and maybe the Democrats who 24 control this Legislature should have thought 25 about that before.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 And for Senator Krugers and company 2 to bring up prior budget extenders from 1993, 3 when Senator DeFrancisco was first in this 4 house, I think is a tremendous insult -- not 5 to Senator DeFrancisco, but to the people of 6 this state. Because using that obfuscation 7 totally denies the fact that in 2007 Senator 8 Kruger and Senator Krueger, both of them, 9 championed the debate on legislation to create 10 budget reform. 11 The law today requires certain 12 benchmarks be established. The law of 2007 -- 13 which you supported, which you voted for -- 14 requires certain dates to take place, certain 15 things to take place on those dates that move 16 to eliminate the process of extenders, require 17 that joint conference committees be held. 18 And you can tell us, Senator Kruger 19 and Senator Krueger, all about prior 20 extenders. But the fact of the matter is 21 Senator DeFrancisco did not vote for an 22 extender once the budget reform bill was 23 enacted. This side of the body did not vote 24 for a budget extender once budget reform was 25 enacted. And what you have done as leaders of

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 the Senate today, as Democrats from New York 2 City, is totally disobey and violate the very 3 law you put on the books that reformed the 4 budget process. 5 So to use those examples I believe 6 was so disingenuous, Madam President, that I 7 had to rise. To blame other Governors or 8 other times for budget delays today? Why 9 don't we blame Governor Pataki because there's 10 not a budget in place today? Why don't we 11 blame Governor Dewey, a Republican governor, 12 because there is no open budget debate and 13 government process? You're right, it is 14 President Bush's fault that we are not 15 providing the school districts with the 16 appropriate information they need today. And 17 while we're at it, why don't we throw in 18 President Theodore Roosevelt as a Republican 19 governor who's responsible for the Democrats 20 in this house to close the parks today? Why 21 not? 22 Let's see you all look in the 23 mirror and say that person in the mirror who 24 continues to allow this foot-dragging to 25 occur, who continues to allow the budget

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 process to be ignored, who continues to 2 provide answers that are trivial and insulting 3 to the taxpayers of this state, that's the 4 person that's responsible. Not prior 5 governors, not prior legislators, the 6 legislators who are in control today. 7 And for the first time, I tell my 8 constituents, for the first time in what I 9 believe is New York State history we have a 10 Governor from New York City, a Senate leader 11 from New York City -- or Senate leaders from 12 New York City -- and we have an Assembly 13 leader from New York City all together at the 14 same time for the first time. That's where 15 the responsibility of this process that's 16 become a debacle lies. 17 Follow the law you enacted. Let's 18 stop this charade, and let's get down to brass 19 tacks and finish this budget this week. Madam 20 President, that's why I'm voting against this 21 extender. It's another example of delay, of 22 procrastination, and of insult to the 23 taxpayers of New York. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Are 25 there any other Senators wishing to speak on

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 the bill? 2 Senator DeFrancisco, you, according 3 to the Senate stenographer, have exceeded the 4 30 minutes that a Senator can speak on a bill, 5 pursuant to Rule 9, Section 3(d). So I would 6 suggest you explain your vote if you would 7 like to continue to speak. 8 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Thank you 9 for the suggestion, but I respectfully 10 decline. I have to ask you -- 11 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 12 DeFrancisco -- 13 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: -- I have 14 to ask -- 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: -- that 16 was not a request. That was a polite way of 17 telling you that you've exceeded the 18 30 minutes that you are entitled to as a 19 member of the Senate, but you may explain your 20 vote. You cannot continue to debate beyond 21 the 30 minutes. 22 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Point of 23 order. You indicated that the stenographer 24 gave you the time. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: We have

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 been tracking the debate, Senator DeFrancisco. 2 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: If the 3 stenographer gave you the time -- 4 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 5 Klein. 6 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: May I just 7 ask a question, a point of order. The 8 question is very simple. 9 SENATOR KLEIN: Madam President, 10 can I just refer you to the rule you cited. 11 Maybe it will clarify for Senator DeFrancisco. 12 It's Rule 9, Section 3(d). It states, very 13 simply: "No single Senator shall debate any 14 bill or concurrent resolution for more than 30 15 minutes." 16 And according to the time that was 17 kept, it's far exceeded 30 minutes. 18 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Point of 19 order. I have a simple question. The 20 computing of the time that you've computed, 21 does that include the time that people 22 questioned me and I answered questions? 23 Because I debated far shorter than 30 minutes 24 with the comments that I wanted to make, and I 25 yielded to Senator Kruger when he stood up and

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 took over the floor. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 3 Klein. 4 SENATOR KLEIN: The rule does not 5 distinguish between speaking as well as 6 debate. It's the whole combination which 7 exceeded 30 minutes. 8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President. 9 Madam President. 10 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 11 Klein, your point is well taken. 12 Senator Libous. 13 SENATOR LIBOUS: I would ask that 14 you call on Senator Winner. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 16 Winner, why do you rise? 17 SENATOR WINNER: On the bill. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 19 Winner, on the bill. 20 SENATOR WINNER: Would Senator 21 DeFrancisco yield to a question. 22 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: 24 Proceed, Senator Winner. 25 SENATOR WINNER: Thank you.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Senator DeFrancisco, could you 2 explain in a little bit more detail your 3 specific objections to this extender? 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Right. And 5 I appreciate the opportunity, because I think 6 it's important with -- especially since 7 Senator Liz Krueger had mentioned all the dire 8 consequences of what would happen if we didn't 9 pass this budget extender. 10 The fact of the matter is that 11 these dire circumstances are happening right 12 now. We have state employees facing either 13 furloughs or layoffs. We have government 14 contracts being ignored and earning interest 15 for nonpayment, with people being laid off. 16 We have parks that are closing. We have total 17 uncertainty in school district budgets. And 18 we have no progress -- by the extenders, we're 19 just enabling people to continue a nonprocess 20 and keep the State of New York in these dire 21 circumstances. 22 And most importantly, as far as 23 government stopping and us not being able to 24 collect IRS checks and the like, the next 25 payroll -- you know, we're paid through the

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 government that's -- the part of the 2 government that's being paid is paid 3 through -- 4 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 5 Klein. 6 SENATOR KLEIN: Madam President, 7 another point of order. 8 I am asking the chair to rule on my 9 point of order, which clearly states that one 10 Senator cannot speak nor debate any bill for 11 more than 30 minutes. So please rule on my 12 motion. 13 SENATOR WINNER: On the point of 14 order, Madam President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 16 DeFrancisco, I'm going to rule you out of 17 order. Because this is clearly nothing more 18 than an attempt to get around the ruling of 19 the chair, which spoke to the length of time 20 that a member could speak directly on a bill. 21 I have instructed you previously to this -- 22 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam 23 President -- 24 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 25 Libous, I'm ruling.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President, 2 point of order. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 4 Libous, I'm ruling. 5 SENATOR LIBOUS: You cannot rule 6 Senator DeFrancisco out of order. 7 SENATOR KLEIN: Madam President, 8 I don't believe you recognized Senator 9 Libous -- 10 SENATOR LIBOUS: Excuse me -- 11 SENATOR KLEIN: And you have the 12 chair, Madam President. 13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President, 14 I am making a point of order. I -- 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: 16 Gentlemen (gaveling). 17 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President, 18 I have a right to make my point of order. 19 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 20 Libous, I have ruled -- 21 SENATOR LIBOUS: The point of 22 order is simple. It is simple. Senator 23 Winner has the floor. He is asking a question 24 of another member. That member cannot be 25 called out of order because another member is

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 asking a question. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 3 Libous, but I can rule you out of order. 4 SENATOR KLEIN: Madam President. 5 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 6 Klein. 7 SENATOR KLEIN: Being a 8 jump-in-the-jack does not require you call on 9 Senator Libous. You had a ruling, you were 10 finishing the ruling. When you are finished 11 with your ruling, then you will call on 12 Senator Libous. 13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Senator Libous 14 is pointing out that Madam President is 15 ignoring a point of order that Senator Winner 16 has the floor. And she cannot divert, under 17 Mason's rules -- 18 SENATOR KLEIN: Madam President. 19 Madam President. 20 SENATOR LIBOUS: -- and I would 21 be happy to go over the rules with you -- 22 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 23 Klein, your point -- 24 SENATOR LIBOUS: -- but you 25 cannot -- when a member has the floor, you

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 cannot -- 2 SENATOR KLEIN: I'm going to do 3 the same thing that Senator Libous did -- 4 SENATOR LIBOUS: Only not as 5 well, Madam President. 6 SENATOR KLEIN: -- until you 7 actually make your decision, Madam President. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 9 Klein, your point of order is well taken. 10 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President, 11 I will appeal the ruling of the chair on the 12 basis that Senator Winner has the floor and 13 not Senator DeFrancisco. 14 SENATOR KLEIN: Please rule on 15 that, Madam President. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: All 17 those in favor of overruling the rule of the 18 chair please -- 19 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I want to 20 be heard on that -- 21 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: No. 22 SENATOR KLEIN: Please call a 23 straight vote on the ruling. There is no one 24 to be heard on it. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: There

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 is nothing to be heard -- 2 SENATOR KLEIN: -- [inaudible] -- 3 Madam President. 4 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: May I be 5 heard on the appeal. 6 SENATOR KLEIN: Again, Madam 7 President, there's a straight vote on that. 8 Call up that motion. 9 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: I have 10 called on the members who wish to overturn the 11 ruling of the chair to please indicate by 12 raising your hand. 13 SENATOR SALAND: Point of order. 14 A point of order is always in order, under any 15 rule of the house. Point of order, Madam 16 President. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 18 Saland, I will get to your point of order as 19 soon as we're done with this attempt to 20 overturn my ruling. 21 All those in favor of overturning 22 the rule of the chair please raise your hand. 23 SENATOR SALAND: Madam Chair, 24 point of order. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: He's

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 challenged my ruling. 2 SENATOR SALAND: Madam Chair, my 3 point of order is on the motion. 4 SENATOR KLEIN: Madam President, 5 could I refer once again -- because again, you 6 know, we want to try to have some decorum here 7 today. 8 And I really ask you, Madam 9 President, to actually have them vote on that 10 ruling, because according to Senate Rule 11 Number 9, Section 4(b), it's very clear, the 12 presiding officer may not be interrupted when 13 speaking. So please speak, Madam President. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 15 Klein, I have instructed the members who wish 16 to overturn my ruling to signify by raising 17 their hand. 18 Announce the results. 19 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 29. Nays, 20 32. 21 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 22 ruling of the chair is upheld. 23 SENATOR SALAND: Point of order, 24 Madam President. Point of order, Madam 25 President.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 2 Saland, what is your point of order? 3 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: I've 5 recognized Senator Saland, Senator Libous. 6 SENATOR LIBOUS: First of all, 7 I'd like some order in the chamber. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 9 Saland, you may proceed on your point of 10 order. 11 SENATOR SALAND: Madam President, 12 this was not my initial point of order. But 13 since Senator Duane has been excused and not 14 in the chamber, how did you come up with 15 32 votes? The roll was not open for him to 16 vote. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 18 Saland, you need 32 votes to overturn the 19 ruling of the chair. You do not have 32 votes 20 that have voted to overturn the ruling of the 21 chair. 22 SENATOR SALAND: The clerk 23 announced 32 votes. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 25 Saland, there were 29 people who voted to

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 overturn the ruling of the chair. 2 SENATOR SALAND: So you're not 3 voting Senator Duane in his absence. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: 5 Correct. 6 SENATOR SALAND: Madam President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Do you 8 have a second point of order, Senator Saland? 9 SENATOR SALAND: A second point 10 of order, yes, I think a very critical point 11 of order. What I just observed now is 12 something that has certainly flown in the face 13 of my two decades in this chamber. 14 There's something called custom and 15 practice, and custom and practice in this 16 chamber has always, always, always, always 17 been that if a member spoke, his or her time 18 was not allotted to the time taken when they 19 were engaged in an exchange that was initiated 20 by another member. 21 So you have effectively chosen to 22 arbitrarily muzzle, by making new precedent in 23 this house, the ability for people to engage 24 in expression and debate. Shame on you, shame 25 on Senator Klein, shame on this majority.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 2 Saland, you are out of order. 3 SENATOR SALAND: I am not out of 4 order. You are out of order. Your ruling was 5 out of order, and it was a cheap stunt. 6 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 7 Saland (gaveling). 8 Are there any other Senators who 9 wish to be heard on the bill? 10 SENATOR WINNER: Yes, Madam 11 President. I believe I have the floor. 12 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Yes, 13 Senator Winner. You may proceed on the bill. 14 SENATOR WINNER: Thank you, Madam 15 President, on the bill. 16 I'm a little surprised that as a -- 17 not a member of the Finance Committee, and a 18 member who's interested in the provisions of 19 this extender and also was very interested in 20 Senator DeFrancisco's concerns and 21 representations with respect to this, as my 22 leader on the Senate Finance Committee, that I 23 was not able to ask him to yield for some 24 specific questions. 25 In fact, I thought it was kind of a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 violation of my privilege as a member of this 2 house in order to seek information that I 3 thought was pertinent to this debate. 4 You or someone -- I believe it was 5 Senator Klein -- cut me off before I could 6 continue with my line of questioning, assuming 7 that it was open-ended, before I could get to 8 any specific matters that I think are of 9 particular concern as it relates to the 10 provisions of this extender. 11 I think there are omissions in this 12 extender that Senator DeFrancisco was 13 attempting to point out that were important to 14 this debate, omissions that are important to 15 the people that I represent, omissions from 16 this legislation -- in particular, things like 17 Power for Jobs extenders, economic development 18 provisions, payments for contractors, other 19 issues that I think are extraordinarily 20 important to this state that unfortunately I 21 was not given the opportunity or the courtesy 22 to be able to pursue in a line of questioning. 23 I think that that's really an 24 unfortunate reflection on the actions of 25 majority in this house, and I expect to vote

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 no on this measure. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Are 3 there any other Senators wishing to be heard 4 on the bill? 5 Seeing none, the debate is closed. 6 The Secretary will ring the bells. I ask all 7 members to return to the chamber for the vote. 8 Read the last section. 9 THE SECRETARY: Section 17. This 10 act shall take effect immediately. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Call 12 the roll. 13 (The Secretary called the roll.) 14 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 15 DeFrancisco, to explain his vote. 16 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: Yes. As 17 far as the comments of Senator Liz Krueger, 18 everybody's paid through next Tuesday except 19 the Legislature, so the tax collectors could 20 certainly collect payroll. So the dire 21 consequences that I mentioned -- that she 22 mentioned really are not the case. 23 And what I tried to answer to 24 Senator Winner, the fact of the matter is 25 there's dire consequences going on right now

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 because we're just doing extenders. 2 Secondly, all the other budgets 3 that Senator Carl Kruger was talking about 4 were certified by the Comptroller, they were 5 balanced. And in addition, they were voted on 6 almost unanimously by both Democrats and 7 Republicans and we were not in the financial 8 situation we are now. 9 Lastly, we were not under the laws 10 that we are now, except in 2008 when we 11 followed those laws. And there's no reason in 12 the world for us to ignore the law. We should 13 have open conference committees. 14 And lastly, it's really a shame 15 that we can't have open conference committees 16 and we can't openly debate a bill on the 17 floor. And now that I know the new rules in 18 this house are that your 30-minutes count 19 includes questions that other people ask you, 20 I would imagine that a lot of questions are 21 going to be asked of a lot of people trying to 22 debate, in good faith, the legitimacy of a 23 bill. 24 So I think it's -- as I said 25 before, it's the first time I've been

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 embarrassed to be in this legislative body 2 because of the substance of the extender and 3 how we've been enabling the leaders to do 4 nothing, and now the procedure is equally 5 embarrassing. 6 Thank you, Madam President. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 8 DeFrancisco will be recorded in the negative. 9 Senator Saland, to explain his 10 vote. 11 SENATOR SALAND: Thank you, Madam 12 President. 13 Madam President, as has been 14 pointed out, the paradigm here supposedly 15 changed in 2007 when we adopted the Budget 16 Reform Act of 2007. We successfully passed a 17 timely budget in 2008. It's been all downhill 18 since then. 19 And what I have observed today 20 really, I believe, takes an already rather 21 ugly, ugly situation in which we find 22 ourselves to depths that we've never really 23 seen before. 24 We've changed not only the paradigm 25 which, with both majorities having passed

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 budget resolutions, we should have been 2 engaged in conference committees weeks ago, 3 but we've now changed the process -- a process 4 which will now encumber the ability to debate, 5 a process which will now restrict the ability 6 for anybody who wishes to engage in debate, a 7 process which will now invite people to 8 decline to answer questions for fear that 9 their time will be so severely limited they 10 will not be able to make their points. 11 I would hope that cooler heads 12 would prevail, that your ruling with respect 13 to the 30-minute rule will be just a passing, 14 rather ugly scar on the face of this house, 15 and that in fact we will engage in the process 16 that we have engaged in previously, which 17 basically did not, at no time -- and I've 18 served in this house now for 20 years -- 19 result in somebody being muzzled because 20 somebody else was using their time. 21 I vote in the negative, Madam 22 President. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 24 Saland to be recorded in the negative. 25 Are there any other Senators

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 wishing to explain their vote? 2 Seeing none, announce the results. 3 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 4 the negative on Calendar Number 554 are 5 Senators Alesi, Bonacic, DeFrancisco, Farley, 6 Flanagan, Fuschillo, Golden, Griffo, Hannon, 7 O. Johnson, Lanza, Larkin, LaValle, Leibell, 8 Libous, Little, Marcellino, Maziarz, McDonald, 9 Nozzolio, Padavan, Ranzenhofer, Robach, 10 Saland, Seward, Skelos, Volker, Winner and 11 Young. 12 Ayes, 32. Nays, 29. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 14 bill is passed. 15 The Secretary will read. 16 THE SECRETARY: In relation to 17 Calendar Number 555, Senator Kruger moves to 18 discharge, from the Committee on Finance, 19 Assembly Bill Number 11104 and substitute it 20 for the identical Senate Bill Number 7847, 21 Third Reading Calendar 555. 22 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: 23 Substitution ordered. 24 Senator Libous. 25 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 I have an amendment at the desk. I would ask 2 that you waive the reading and if I could 3 speak on it, please. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 5 Libous, your amendment is at the desk. 6 Without objection, the reading is waived and 7 you may speak on the amendment. 8 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Madam 9 President. 10 Last week in this chamber, Senator 11 Aubertine had a bill on the floor that was a 12 new and improved Power for Jobs legislation. 13 And last week in this chamber I stood on this 14 floor and said that the bill wasn't real, the 15 bill wasn't going to extend Power for Jobs, it 16 wasn't going to do anything for Power for 17 Jobs, because there was no companion in the 18 Assembly. 19 And I believe Senator Griffo 20 mentioned that he was concerned because the 21 deadline was coming for the Power for Jobs 22 program. 23 I can't speak for every member of 24 this chamber, but I do know in my district 25 this is going to affect 7,314 jobs. Now, at a

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 time when every job that's created or every 2 job that can be preserved in this state is 3 extremely, extremely precious, we should not 4 be playing games with such an important 5 program. 6 I shared with you last week -- I'll 7 share it again this week -- that I visited one 8 of the companies that has Power for Jobs, and 9 they talked about over the next three years 10 doubling their workforce, but they can't do it 11 without this very, very valuable program. 12 Last week I believe Senator 13 Stachowski and Senator Duane, who 14 unfortunately is not here right now, joined me 15 in voting no, for whatever reasons they had. 16 I can't speak for them. But I can tell you 17 that I would hope that Senator Stachowski, you 18 would join us today on this amendment. 19 Because what this amendment does is extends 20 the Power for Jobs as it is for another year. 21 Now, I hear in the Assembly they're 22 going to pass a bill today that's going to 23 extend it for two and a half weeks. That 24 doesn't help any one of these particular 25 companies or any company in any of our

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 districts. This is a bipartisan effort here. 2 This is not something that is Republican or 3 Democrat. This is about jobs, ladies and 4 gentlemen. This is about helping these 5 companies. 6 And it is very evident to me -- 7 Senator Aubertine, all due respect to your 8 efforts last week -- that the Assembly is not 9 going to join us in moving forward on your 10 legislation. 11 So I ask that you join me with this 12 amendment. This amendment extends the program 13 as we have the last several years so that we 14 can protect the jobs in New York State and the 15 companies that use this very important power. 16 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 17 Libous, after reviewing your amendment I 18 unfortunately am compelled to rule it out of 19 order. 20 The bill that you seek to amend 21 deals with the issuance of certain bonds. 22 This amendment addresses the Power for Jobs 23 program, which falls outside the scope of the 24 bill and is therefore not germane. 25 SENATOR LIBOUS: Madam President,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 I know this is shocking to you, but I appeal 2 the ruling of the chair. 3 I believe that my amendment is 4 germane. It is a very serious issue. And 5 it's something that needs to be extended. 6 This program has run out. 7 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: All 8 those wishing to overturn the ruling of the 9 chair please indicate by raising your hand. 10 Announce the results. 11 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 29. Nays, 12 31. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 14 motion fails. 15 The bill is before the house. Are 16 there any members wishing to speak on the bill 17 before the house? 18 Seeing none, debate is closed. The 19 Secretary will ring the bells. 20 Read the last section. 21 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This 22 act shall take effect immediately. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Call 24 the roll. 25 (The Secretary called the roll.)

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 2 DeFrancisco, to explain his vote. 3 SENATOR DeFRANCISCO: I'm going 4 to vote yes on this bill. 5 And I just want to put on the 6 record I asked a question in Finance whether 7 this bonding that we're authorizing is for 8 existing projects only and doesn't authorize 9 new borrowing for projects yet to be 10 determined. And the answer was yes, it's just 11 for existing contracts. 12 And on that grounds, I'm voting 13 yes, in order to try to get more people 14 working on existing projects rather than -- 15 and not authorize additional borrowing until 16 our budget situation has been clarified. 17 Thank you. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 19 DeFrancisco will be recorded in the 20 affirmative. 21 Any other Senators wishing to 22 explain their vote? 23 Announce the results. 24 THE SECRETARY: Those recorded in 25 the negative on Calendar Number 555 are

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Senators Hannon, Larkin and Marcellino. 2 Ayes, 58. Nays, 3. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 4 bill is passed. 5 Senator Klein, that completes the 6 reading of the controversial supplemental 7 calendar. 8 SENATOR KLEIN: Madam President, 9 at this time can we please go to a reading of 10 the supplemental active list. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 12 Secretary will read. 13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 14 390, by Senator DeFrancisco, Senate Print 15 6464 -- 16 SENATOR KLEIN: Lay the bill 17 aside for the day, please. 18 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 19 bill is laid aside for the day. 20 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number 21 465, by Member of the Assembly Thiele, 22 Assembly Print Number 9766A, an act to amend 23 the Public Officers Law. 24 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Read 25 the last section.

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 2 act shall take effect immediately. 3 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Call 4 the roll. 5 (The Secretary called the roll.) 6 SENATOR SALAND: I don't have a 7 calendar. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 9 Senate will please come to order. 10 Senator Saland, have you found a 11 calendar? 12 SENATOR SALAND: I have one. 13 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Read 14 the last section. 15 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 16 act shall take effect immediately. 17 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Call 18 the roll. 19 (The Secretary called the roll.) 20 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: 21 Announce the results. 22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61. 23 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 24 bill is passed. 25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 467, by Member of the Assembly Amedore, 2 Assembly Print Number 10164, an act to amend 3 the General Municipal Law. 4 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Read 5 the last section. 6 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This 7 act shall take effect immediately. 8 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Call 9 the roll. 10 (The Secretary called the roll.) 11 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: 12 Announce the results. 13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 61. 14 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 15 bill is passed. 16 THE SECRETARY: Excuse me. In 17 relation to Calendar Number 467: Ayes, 60. 18 Nays, 1. Senator Parker recorded in the 19 negative. 20 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: The 21 bill is passed. 22 Senator Klein, that completes the 23 reading of the noncontroversial supplemental 24 calendar. 25 SENATOR KLEIN: Madam President,

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 I believe Senator Libous has a floor motion. 2 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 3 Libous. 4 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Madam 5 President. 6 On behalf of Senator Nozzolio, I 7 move the following bill be discharged from its 8 respective committee and be recommitted with 9 instructions to strike the enacting clause. 10 And it's Senate Print Number 2401. 11 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: So 12 ordered. 13 SENATOR LIBOUS: Thank you, Madam 14 President. 15 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator 16 Klein. 17 SENATOR KLEIN: Madam President, 18 is there any further business at the desk? 19 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: No, 20 Senator Klein, there is no further business at 21 the desk. 22 SENATOR KLEIN: There being no 23 further business, Madam President, I move we 24 adjourn until Tuesday, May 18th, at 11:00 a.m. 25 ACTING PRESIDENT SAVINO: Senator

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc. 1 Klein, there being no further business to come 2 before the Senate, on motion, the Senate 3 stands adjourned until Tuesday, May 18th, at 4 11:00 a.m. 5 (Whereupon, at 8:40 p.m., the 6 Senate adjourned.) 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Candyco Transcription Service, Inc.